The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewRon Unz Archive
American Pravda: Holocaust Denial
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments

Reason Magazine and Holocaust Denial

A few years ago I somehow heard about a ferocious online dispute involving a left-leaning journalist named Mark Ames and the editors of Reason magazine, the glossy flagship publication of America’s burgeoning libertarian movement. Although I was deep in my difficult programming work, curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to take a look.

During the Immigration Wars of the 1990s, I’d become quite friendly with the Reason people, frequently visiting their offices, especially during my “English” campaign of 1998, when I’d located my own political headquarters in the same small Westside LA office building they used. As my content-archiving software project began absorbing more and more of my time during the early 2000s, I’d gradually lost touch with them, but even so, the 40-odd years of their magazine archives had become the first publication I’d incorporated into my system, and I was now pleased to discover that both sides in the ongoing feud had put my system to good use in exploring those old Reason issues.

Apparently, the libertarians grouped around Reason had successfully been making political inroads into Silicon Valley’s enormously wealthy technology industry, and had now organized a major conference in San Francisco to gather together their supporters. Their left-leaning rivals decided to nip that project in the bud by highlighting some of the more unsavory ideological positions that mainstream libertarian leaders had once regularly espoused. Perhaps Ron Paul and other libertarians might oppose overseas wars and drug laws, and support cutting taxes and regulations, but they and their Republican Party allies were unspeakably vile on all sorts of other issues, and all “good thinkers” should therefore stay very far away.

The debate began in rather mundane fashion with an article by Ames entitled “Homophobia, Racism, and the Kochs” denouncing Reason for sharing a platform with a high-ranking Republican Congresswoman of Christian conservative views, as well as the magazine’s reliance upon Koch funding and its alleged support for Apartheid South Africa during the 1970s and 1980s. The response by the Reason editor seemed quite persuasive, and he rightfully dismissed the guilt-by-association attacks. He also outlined the gross errors and omissions in the charges regarding South Africa, and ridiculed Ames as a notoriously error-prone “conspiracy theorist.” Surely few outsiders would have paid any attention to such a typical exchange of mudslinging between rival ideological camps.

But then things took a very different turn, and a week later Ames returned with a 5,000 word article bearing a title sure to grab attention: “Holocaust Denial.” He claimed that in 1976 Reason had published an entire special issue devoted to that explosive topic.

Surely everyone on the Internet has encountered numerous instances of Holocaust Denial over the years, but for a respectable magazine to have allotted a full issue to promoting that doctrine was something else entirely. For decades, Hollywood has sanctified the Holocaust, and in our deeply secular society accusations of Holocaust Denial are a bit like shouting “Witch!” in Old Salem or leveling accusations of Trotskyism in the Court of the Red Czar. Progressive Sam Seder’s Majority Report radio show devoted a full half-hour segment to the charges against Reason, and Googling “Reason Magazine”+”Holocaust Denial” today yields thousands of hits. This substantial explosion of Internet controversy was what caught my own attention at the time.

My initial reaction was one of puzzlement. Reason had been the first periodical I had digitized in my system a dozen years earlier, and surely I would have noticed an entire issue promoting Holocaust Denial. However, I soon discovered that February 1976 had been excluded from the supposedly complete set the magazine had shipped me for processing, an omission that itself raises serious suspicions. But Ames had somehow located a copy in a research library and produced a full PDF, which he conveniently placed on the Internet to support his accusations.

 

Carefully reading his article and then glancing through the contents, I decided that his accusation was technically false but substantially true. Apparently the actual theme of the issue was “Historical Revisionism” and except for a couple of paragraphs buried here and there among the 76 pages, Holocaust Denial never came up, so characterizing it as a Holocaust Denial issue was obviously a grotesque exaggeration. But on the other hand, although few of the authors were familiar to me, it seemed undeniably true that they were numbered among America’s more prominent Holocaust Deniers, and most of them were deeply associated with organizations situated in that same camp. Furthermore, there were strong indications that their positions on that topic must certainly have been known to the Reason editors who commissioned their pieces.

The clearest case comes when Ames quoted the explicit statements of Dr. Gary North, a prominent libertarian thinker who had served as one of Ron Paul’s earliest Congressional aides and later became his longtime partner in politics and business:

Probably the most far-out materials on World War II revisionism have been the seemingly endless scholarly studies of the supposed execution of 6 million Jews by Hitler. The anonymous author [Hoggan] of ‘The Myth of the Six Million’ has presented a solid case against the Establishment’s favorite horror story—the supposed moral justification for our entry into the war…The untranslated books by the former Buchenwald inmate Prof. Paul Rassinier, have seriously challenged the story…A recent and very inexpensive book in magazine form, Did Six Million Really Die?, appeared in 1973, written by Richard Harwood.

A later issue carried a thousand word letter by Prof. Adam Reed of Rockefeller University, a past Reason contributor, strongly affirming the mainstream Holocaust narrative by quoting from standard works, and taking Dr. North to task for his citation of Holocaust Denial works of doubtful quality. But North firmly stood his ground:

“The second point, that about 6 million Jews really did die in the concentration camps, is one that will be open until the records of the period become fully available. I am not convinced yet, one way or the other. I am happy to have Dr. Reed’s interpretation of the data, but until the publishing companies and academic guild encourage the re-examination of the data, I shall continue to recommend that those interested in revisionist questions read The Myth of the Six Million and Did Six Million Really Die? as reasonable (though not necessarily irrefutable) pieces of historical revisionism. If a person can’t make up his mind, he should do more reading.”

Dr. James J. Martin was the lead contributor to the February Revisionism issue, and the preceding January issue had featured an extended Q&A by the editors, with one of the queries directly addressing the controversial topic:

REASON: Dr. Martin, do you believe (1) that the specific charge against the Nazis of having a mass extermination program of several million Jews is true, and (2) that the Allied atrocities were as great or greater than those of the Germans, from your study of the question?

MARTIN: Well, I never made a head count of all who lost their lives in the War-we’ve seen a wide variety of statistical materials, some of which have been pulled out of thin air. As a consequence, it’s hard to make any kind of estimate of this sort, whether ten more were killed on the one side or the other is not a particularly entrancing subject as far as I’m concerned. Whether allegations can be proven it remains to be seen. I don’t believe that the evidence of a planned extermination of the entire Jewish population of Europe is holding up. I have been influenced over the years by the works of Paul Rassinier, and he still has to be reckoned with. His works have been ignored for a long time, and sooner or later somebody’s going to have to do a decent job of coping with what he has presented. I think Rassinier’s general case is sound at the moment and I haven’t seen any strong evidence to upset his allegations or his assertions that there was no planned program for the extermination of European Jews. His other main case is that there were no gas chamber extermination programs. The fact that a great many people lost their lives is incontrovertible—that the German concentration camps weren’t health centers is well known-but they appear to have been far smaller and much less lethal than the Russian ones.

Another major contributor to the issue was Dr. Austin J. App, and just three years earlier he had published a short book bearing the lurid title The Six Million Swindle: Blackmailing the German People for Hard Marks with Fabricated Corpses.

In a follow-up column by Ames’ own editor, the stunned reactions of various journalists are listed, with one of them Tweeting out “I had no idea that Reason Magazine was once a haven for Holocaust Revisionism. Holy Moly.” Despite the angry obfuscations of present-day Reason staffers, this description seems quite correct.

Indeed, there seems considerable circumstantial evidence that around that time “Holocaust Skepticism” extended rather broadly within the entire nascent libertarian movement. Aside from the sharp critique of the aforementioned Prof. Reed, the overwhelming majority of the reader responses seemed totally favorable, with Samuel Konkin III, editor of New Libertarian Weekly and various similar publications, suggesting that the February issue was one of the best they had ever published. David Nolan, founder of America’s Libertarian Party, also praised the issue as “outstanding.”

The two editors of the issue in question even today remain quite prominent figures at Reason and within American libertarianism, while the masthead then carried names such as David Brudnoy and Alan Reynolds, who both later became influential figures in conservative and libertarian politics. There seems no evidence of any resignations or angry recriminations following the issue’s publication, which seems to have been digested with total equanimity, apparently arousing less rancor than might have been generated by a dispute over monetary policy.

I’d never paid much attention to Holocaust discussions over the years, but the name of Murray Rothbard on the 1976 Reason masthead prompted a memory. Rothbard is widely regarded as the founder of modern libertarianism, and I recalled in the 1990s reading somewhere that he had often ridiculed the Holocaust as being total nonsense, which had stuck in my mind as a typical example of libertarian eccentricity. A quick Google search seemed to confirm my recollection that Rothbard was an avowed Holocaust Denier.

 

Although the whole controversy regarding Reason’s editorial line of the mid-1970s soon died down, it remained a nagging puzzle in the back of my mind. I’d always been quite skeptical of libertarian ideology, but my Reason friends from the 1990s had certainly seemed like smart and rational people to me, hardly raving lunatics of any sort, and two of the ones I’d known best had been the co-editors of the controversial issue in question.

I could easily understand how zealous libertarian ideologues might be swept past the point of rationality on certain matters—perhaps arguing that the police and the army should be abolished as statist institutions—but the factual question of what had or had not happened to the Jews of Europe during World War II hardly fell into that sort of category. Furthermore, libertarianism had always attracted a very large Jewish contingent, especially in its upper ranks, and one of the issue editors came from that background, as did Rothbard and numerous others featured on the masthead. While deranged anti-Semitism is not impossible among Jews, I would think that it is somewhat less likely. Clearly something very odd must have been going on.

I was then too busy with my work to focus on the matter, but some months later I had more time, and began a detailed investigation. My first step was to carefully read the Reason articles produced by those controversial writers previously unknown to me. Although those pieces were not Holocaust-related, I thought they might give me a sense of their thinking.

To my surprise, the historiography seemed outstandingly good, and almost certainly accurate based on what I had picked up over the years from perfectly mainstream sources. Dr. Martin’s long article on the notorious framing of “Tokyo Rose” was probably the best and most comprehensive treatment I had ever encountered on that topic, and Dr. App’s analysis of the tragedy of the Sudeten-Germans was equally strong, raising several points I had previously not known. Percy Greaves effectively summarized many of the very suspicious aspects of the Pearl Harbor attack, and although his case for the prosecution against FDR was certainly not airtight, it accorded with the views presented by numerous scholars in other books on the subject. Moreover, his position was seconded by a young Bruce Bartlett, later a prominent Reagan and Bush official, and still later a strong Republican opponent of George W. Bush, routinely feted by the New York Times. Most of the other writings also seemed of very high quality, including Dr. North’s summary of World War II Revisionism. In general, the academic scholarship of those articles greatly surpassed anything found in opinion magazines of more recent decades, Reason itself included. Those so interested can click on the above links, read the articles in question, and decide for themselves.

Back then, Reason was a young and struggling magazine, with a shoestring staff and budget. Publishing articles of such obvious quality was surely a remarkable achievement for which the editors could feel justifiably proud, and the overwhelmingly positive letters they received seemed absolutely warranted. Meanwhile, the nasty attacks by Ames appeared to be those of a mere political hack who may not have even bothered actually reading the articles whose authors he vilified.

As a further sign of Ames’ dishonesty, he flung the epithet “Nazi” some two dozen times in his hack-job, along with numerous uses of “anti-Semitic” as well, and Greaves was certainly the subject of many of those slurs. But although Greaves and Bartlett wrote back-to-back articles on exactly the same Pearl Harbor topic, and according to Wikipedia, the former was the academic advisor to the latter on that subject, Bartlett’s name appears nowhere in Ames’s hit-piece, presumably because denouncing a prominent policy expert much beloved by the New York Times as an “anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi” might prove self-defeating. Even leaving that aside, accusing the Jewish libertarians running Reason of being Nazi propagandists must surely be the sort of charge that would strain the credulity of even the most gullible.

Deborah Lipstadt and Holocaust Denial

With Ames’ credibility totally shredded, I decided to carefully reread his article again, looking for what clues I could find to the whole bizarre situation. Academic scholars who publish very good history on certain subjects might still have totally irrational views on others, but normally one would assume otherwise.

It appeared that much of Ames’ understanding of the issue had come from a certain Deborah Lipstadt, whom he characterized as a great Holocaust expert. Her name was very vaguely familiar to me as some sort of academic activist, who years before had won a major legal victory over a rightwing British historian named David Irving, and Irving himself received further denunciations in the Ames article.

However, one name did stick out. Apparently based on Lipstadt’s information, Ames described Harry Elmer Barnes as “the godfather of American Holocaust denial literature” and Martin’s “Holocaust denial guru.”

A dozen years earlier, the name “Barnes” would have meant almost nothing to me. But as I produced my content-archiving system and digitized so many of America’s most influential publications of the last 150 years, I had soon discovered that many of our most illustrious public intellectuals—Left, Right, and Center—had been suddenly purged and “disappeared” around 1940 because of their stalwart opposition to FDR’s extremely aggressive foreign policy, and Barnes, an eminent historian and sociologist, had been among the most prominent of those. He had been one of the earliest editors at Foreign Affairs and for many years afterward his important articles had graced the pages of The New Republic and The Nation, while even after his fall, he had edited Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, an important 1953 collection of essays by himself and other once-prominent figures. But to have a figure of such intellectual stature accused of being a Holocaust Denier, let alone the “godfather” of the entire movement, seemed rather bizarre to me.

ORDER IT NOW

Since Ames was merely an ignorant political hack transmitting the opinions of others, I moved on Lipstadt, his key source. Anyone who has spent much time on the comment-threads of relatively unfiltered websites has certainly encountered the controversial topic of Holocaust Denial, but I now decided to try to investigate the issue in much more serious fashion. A few clicks on the Amazon.com website, and her 1993 book Denying the Holocaust arrived in my mailbox a couple of days later, providing me an entrance into the mysterious world.

Reading the book was certainly a tremendous revelation to me. Lipstadt is a professor of Holocaust Studies with an appointment in Emory University’s Department of Theology, and once I read the opening paragraph of her first chapter, I decided that her academic specialty might certainly be described as “Holocaust Theology.”

The producer was incredulous. She found it hard to believe that I was turning down an opportunity to appear on her nationally televised show. “But you are writing a book on this topic. It will be great publicity.” I explained repeatedly that I would not participate in a debate with a Holocaust denier. The existence of the Holocaust was not a matter of debate. I would analyze and illustrate who they were and what they tried to do, but I would not appear with them…Unwilling to accept my no as final, she vigorously condemned Holocaust denial and all it represented. Then, in one last attempt to get me to change my mind, she asked me a question: “I certainly don’t agree with them, but don’t you think our viewers should hear the other side?”

Lipstadt’s absolute horror at having someone actually dispute the tenets of her academic doctrine could not have been more blatant. Surely no zealous theologian of the European Dark Ages would have reacted any differently.

The second chapter of her book supported that impression. Since many of the individuals she castigates as Holocaust Deniers also supported the Revisionist perspective of the underlying causes of the First and Second World Wars, she harshly attacked those schools, but in rather strange fashion. In recent years, blogger Steve Sailer and others have ridiculed what they describe as the “point-and-sputter” style of debate, in which a “politically-incorrect” narrative is merely described and then automatically treated as self-evidently false without any accompanying need for actual refutation. This seemed to be the approach that Lipstadt took throughout her rather short book.

For example, she provided a very long list of leading academic scholars, prominent political figures, and influential journalists who had championed Revisionist history, noted that their views disagree with the more mainstream perspective she had presumably imbibed from her History 101 textbooks, and thereby regarded them as fully debunked. Certainly a Christian preacher attempting to refute the evolutionary theories of Harvard’s E.O. Wilson by quoting a passage of Bible verse might take much the same approach. But few evangelical activists would be so foolish as to provide a very long list of eminent scientists who all took the same Darwinist position and then attempt to sweep them aside by citing a single verse from Genesis. Lipstadt seems to approach history much like a Bible-thumper, but a particularly dim-witted one. Moreover, many of the authors she attacked had already become familiar to me after a decade of my content-archiving work, and I had found their numerous books quite scholarly and persuasive.

Barnes, in particular, figured quite prominently in Lipstadt’s chapter and throughout her book. The index listed his name on more than two dozen pages, and he is repeatedly described as the “godfather” of Holocaust Denial, and its seminal figure. Given such heavy coverage, I eagerly examined all those references and the accompanying footnotes to uncover the shocking statements he must have made during his very long scholarly career.

I was quite disappointed. There is not a single reference I could find to his supposed Holocaust Denial views until just the year before his death at age 79, and even that item is hardly what I had been led to believe. In a 9,300 word article on Revisionism for a libertarian publication, he ridicules a leading Holocaust source for claiming that Hitler had killed 25 million Jews, noting that total was nearly twice their entire worldwide population at the time. In addition, Barnes several times applied the word “allegedly” to the stories of the Nazi extermination scheme, an sacrilegious attitude that appears to have horrified a theologian such as Lipstadt. Finally, in a short, posthumously published review of a book by French scholar Paul Rassiner, Barnes found his estimate of just 1 million to 1.5 million Jewish deaths quite convincing, but his tone suggested that he had never previously investigated the matter himself.

So although that last item technically validated Lipstadt’s accusation that Barnes was a Holocaust Denier, her evidence-free claims that he was the founder and leader of the field hardly enhances her scholarly credibility. Meanwhile, all the many tens of thousands of words I have read by Barnes has suggested that he was a careful and dispassionate historian.

A notorious incident that occurred soon after the Bolshevik Revolution came to my mind. Eminent philologist Timofei Florinsky, one of Russia’s most internationally renowned academic scholars, was hauled before a revolutionary tribunal for a public interrogation about his ideas, and one of the judges, a drunken Jewish former prostitute, found his answers so irritating that she drew her revolver and shot him dead right there and then. Given Lipstadt’s obvious emotional state, I have a strong suspicion that she might have wished she could deal in a similar fashion with Barnes and the numerous other scholars she denounced. Among other things, she noted with horror that more than two decades after his 1940 purge from public life, Barnes’ books were still required reading at both Harvard and Columbia.

 

All of us reasonably extrapolate what we already know or can easily check against what is more difficult to verify, and the remaining chapters of Lipstadt’s book left me very doubtful about the reliability of her work, all of which was written in a similar near-hysterical style. Since she had already been vaguely known to me from her well-publicized legal battle against historian David Irving more than a dozen years earlier, I was hardly surprised to discover that many pages were devoted to vilifying and insulting him in much the same manner as Barnes, so I decided to investigate that case.

I was only slightly surprised to discover that Irving had been one of the world’s most successful World War II historians, whose remarkable documentary findings had completely upended our knowledge of that conflict and its origins, with his books selling in the many millions. His entire approach to controversial historical issues was to rely as much as possible upon hard documentary evidence, and his total inability to locate any such documents relating to the Holocaust drove Lipstadt and her fellow ethnic-activists into a frenzy of outrage, so after many years of effort they finally managed to wreck his career. Out of curiosity, I read a couple of his shorter books, which seemed absolutely outstanding historiography, written in a very measured tone, quite different from that of Lipstadt, whose own 2005 account of her legal triumph over Irving, History on Trial, merely confirmed my opinion of her incompetence.

ORDER IT NOW

Lipstadt’s first book Beyond Belief, published in 1986, tells an interesting story as well, with her descriptive subtitle being “The American Press and the Coming of the Holocaust, 1933-1945.” Much of the volume consists of press clippings from the American print media of that era interspersed with her running rather hysterical commentary, but providing little analysis or judgment. Some of the journalists reported horrifying conditions for Jews in pre-war Germany while others claim that such stories were wildly exaggerated, and Lipstadt automatically praised the former and denounced the latter without providing any serious explanation.

Lenni Brenner’s remarkable book Zionism in the Age of the Dictators had been published three years earlier. Although I only discovered it very recently, surely any half-competent specialist in her own topic would have noticed it, yet Lipstadt provided no hint of its existence. Perhaps the reality of the important Nazi-Zionist economic partnership of the 1930s, with Nazi officials traveling to Palestine as honored Zionist guests and leading Nazi newspapers praising the Zionist enterprise might have complicated her simple story of fanatic German Jew-hatred under Hitler steadily rising towards an exterminationist pitch. Her faculty appointment in a Department of Theology seems very apt.

Lipstadt’s wartime coverage is just as bad, perhaps worse. She catalogs perhaps a couple of hundred print news reports, each describing the massacre of hundreds of thousands or even millions of Jews by the Nazis. But she expresses her outrage that so many of these reports were buried deep within the inside pages of newspapers, a placement suggesting that they were regarded as hysterical wartime atrocity propaganda and probably fictional, with the editors sometimes explicitly stating that opinion. Indeed, among these under-emphasized stories was the claim that the Germans had recently killed 1.5 million Jews by individually injecting each one of them in the heart with a lethal drug. And although I don’t see any mention of it, around that same time America’s top Jewish leader Rabbi Stephen Wise was peddling the absurd report that the Nazis had slaughtered millions of Jews, turning their skins into lampshades and rendering their bodies into soap. Obviously, separating truth from falsehood during a blizzard of wartime propaganda is not nearly as easy as Lipstadt seems to assume.

Ordinary Americans were apparently even more skeptical than newspaper editors. According to Lipstadt:

Writing in the Sunday New York Times Magazine, [Arthur] Koestler cited public opinion polls in the United States in which nine of ten average Americans dismissed the accusations against the Nazis as propaganda lies and flatly stated that they did not believe a word of them.

Lipstadt convincingly demonstrates that very few Americans seem to have believed in the reality of the Holocaust during the Second World War itself, despite considerable efforts by agitated Jewish activists to persuade them. Over the years, I have seen mention of numerous other books making this same basic point, and therefore harshly condemning the American political leaders of the time for having failed “to save the Jews.”

Explicit and Implicit Holocaust Denial After World War II

Yet as I began further investigating the history of Holocaust Denial in the wake of the Reason contretemps, I was very surprised to discover that this same pattern of widespread disbelief in the Holocaust seems to have continued unabated after the end of the war and throughout the 1950s, being especially strong among high-ranking American military figures, especially top generals and individuals with an Intelligence background, who seemingly would have had the best knowledge of the true events.

ORDER IT NOW

Some years ago, I came across a totally obscure 1951 book entitled Iron Curtain Over America by John Beaty, a well-regarded university professor. Beaty had spent his wartime years in Military Intelligence, being tasked with preparing the daily briefing reports distributed to all top American officials summarizing available intelligence information acquired during the previous 24 hours, which was obviously a position of considerable responsibility.

As a zealous anti-Communist, he regarded much of America’s Jewish population as deeply implicated in subversive activity, therefore constituting a serious threat to traditional American freedoms. In particular, the growing Jewish stranglehold over publishing and the media was making it increasingly difficult for discordant views to reach the American people, with this regime of censorship constituting the “Iron Curtain” described in his title. He blamed Jewish interests for the totally unnecessary war with Hitler’s Germany, which had long sought good relations with America, but instead had suffered total destruction for its strong opposition to Europe’s Jewish-backed Communist menace.

Beaty also sharply denounced American support for the new state of Israel, which was potentially costing us the goodwill of so many millions of Muslims and Arabs. And as a very minor aside, he also criticized the Israelis for continuing to claim that Hitler had killed six million Jews, a highly implausible accusation that had no apparent basis in reality and seemed to be just a fraud concocted by Jews and Communists, aimed at poisoning our relations with postwar Germany and extracting money for the Jewish State from the long-suffering German people.

He was scathing toward the Nuremberg Trials, which he described as a “major indelible blot” upon America and “a travesty of justice.” According to him, the proceedings were dominated by vengeful German Jews, many of whom engaged in falsification of testimony or even had criminal backgrounds. As a result, this “foul fiasco” merely taught Germans that “our government had no sense of justice.” Sen. Robert Taft, the Republican leader of the immediate postwar era took a very similar position, which later won him the praise of John F. Kennedy in Profiles in Courage. The fact that the chief Soviet prosecutor at Nuremberg had played the same role during the notorious Stalinist show trials of the late 1930s, during which numerous Old Bolsheviks confessed to all sorts of absurd and ridiculous things, hardly enhanced the credibility of the proceedings to many outside observers.

Then as now, a book taking such controversial positions stood little chance of finding a mainstream New York publisher, but it was soon released by a small Dallas firm, and then became enormously successful, going through some seventeen printings over the next few years. According to Scott McConnell, founding editor of The American Conservative, Beaty’s book became the second most popular conservative text of the 1950s, ranking only behind Russell Kirk’s iconic classic, The Conservative Mind.

Moreover, although Jewish groups including the ADL harshly condemned the book, especially in their private lobbying, those efforts provoked a backlash, and numerous top American generals, both serving and retired, wholeheartedly endorsed Beaty’s work, denouncing the ADL efforts at censorship and urging all Americans to read the volume. Although Beaty’s quite explicit Holocaust Denial might shock tender modern sensibilities, at the time it seems to have caused barely a ripple of concern and was almost totally ignored even by the vocal Jewish critics of the work.

ORDER IT NOW

Much of this very interesting story is told by Joseph Bendersky, an expert in Holocaust Studies, who devoted ten years of archival research to his 2000 book The “Jewish Threat.” His work chronicles the extremely widespread anti-Semitism found within the U.S. Army and Military Intelligence throughout the first half of the twentieth century, with Jews being widely regarded as posing a serious security risk. The book runs well over 500 pages, but when I consulted the index I found no mention of the Rosenbergs nor Harry Dexter White nor any of the other very numerous Jewish spies revealed by the Venona Decrypts, and the term “Venona” itself is also missing from the index. Reports of the overwhelmingly Jewish leadership of the Russian Bolsheviks are mostly treated as bigotry and paranoia, as are descriptions of the similar ethnic skew of America’s own Communist Party, let alone the heavy financial support of the Bolsheviks by Jewish international bankers. At one point, he dismisses the link between Jews and Communism in Germany by noting that “less than half” of the Communist Party leadership was Jewish; but since fewer than one in a hundred Germans came from that ethnic background, Jews were obviously over-represented among Communist leaders by as much as 5,000%. This seems to typify the sort of dishonesty and innumeracy I have regularly encountered among Jewish Holocaust experts.

Meanwhile, with the copyright having long lapsed, I’m pleased to add Beaty’s work to my Controversial HTML Books selection, so individuals interested can read it and decide for themselves:

 

Beaty’s very brief 1951 discussion has been the earliest instance of explicit Holocaust Denial I have managed to locate, but the immediate postwar years seem absolutely rife with what might be described as “implicit Holocaust Denial,” especially within the highest political circles.

Over the years, Holocaust scholars and activists have very rightfully emphasized the absolutely unprecedented nature of the historical events they have studied. They describe how some six million innocent Jewish civilians were deliberately exterminated, mostly in gas chambers, by one of Europe’s most highly cultured nations, and emphasize that monstrous project was often accorded greater priority than Germany’s own wartime military needs during the country’s desperate struggle for survival. Furthermore, the Germans also undertook enormous efforts to totally eliminate all possible traces of their horrifying deed, with huge resources expended to cremate all those millions of bodies and scatter the ashes. This same disappearance technique was even sometimes applied to the contents of their mass graves, which were dug up long after initial burial, so that the rotting corpses could then be totally incinerated and all evidence eliminated. And although Germans are notorious for their extreme bureaucratic precision, this immense wartime project was apparently implemented without benefit of a single written document, or at least no such document has ever been located.

Lipstadt entitled her first book “Beyond Belief,” and I think that all of us can agree that the historical event she and so many others in academia and Hollywood have made the centerpiece of their lives and careers is certainly one of the most very remarkable occurrences in all of human history. Indeed, perhaps only a Martian Invasion would have been more worthy of historical study, but Orson Welles’s famous War of the Worlds radio-play which terrified so many millions of Americans in 1938 turned out to be a hoax rather than real.

The six million Jews who died in the Holocaust certainly constituted a very substantial fraction of all the wartime casualties in the European Theater, outnumbering by a factor of 100 all the British who died during the Blitz, and being dozens of times more numerous than all the Americans who fell there in battle. Furthermore, the sheer monstrosity of the crime against innocent civilians would surely have provided the best possible justification for the Allied war effort. Yet for many, many years after the war, a very strange sort of amnesia seems to have gripped most of the leading political protagonists in that regard.

Robert Faurisson, a French academic who became a prominent Holocaust Denier in the 1970s, once made an extremely interesting observation regarding the memoirs of Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle:

Three of the best known works on the Second World War are General Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe (New York: Doubleday [Country Life Press], 1948), Winston Churchill’s The Second World War (London: Cassell, 6 vols., 1948-1954), and the Mémoires de guerre of General de Gaulle (Paris: Plon, 3 vols., 1954-1959). In these three works not the least mention of Nazi gas chambers is to be found.

Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi “gas chambers,” a “genocide” of the Jews, or of “six million” Jewish victims of the war.

Given that the Holocaust would reasonably rank as the single most remarkable episode of the Second World War, such striking omissions must almost force us to place Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle among the ranks of “implicit Holocaust Deniers.”

 

ORDER IT NOW

Many others seem to fall into that same category. In 1981, Lucy S. Dawidowicz, a leading Holocaust scholar, published a short book entitled The Holocaust and the Historians, in which she denounced so many prominent historians for having so totally ignored the reality of the Holocaust for many years following World War II. Indeed, discussion of that topic was almost entirely confined to the Jewish Studies programs which Jewish ethnic activists had newly established at numerous universities throughout the country. Although Lipstadt’s poor scholarly habits and hysterical style hardly impressed me, she appears to have been among the most successful academics who began a career in those ethnic studies departments, which suggests that their average quality was far below her own.

Meanwhile, Dawidowicz emphasizes that mainstream histories often entirely omitted the Holocaust from their presentations:

But it is plain from the most cursory review of textbooks and scholarly works by English and American historians that the awesome events of the Holocaust have not been given their historic due. For over two decades some secondary school and college texts never mentioned the subject at all, while others treated it so summarily or vaguely as to fail to convey sufficient information about the events themselves or their historical significance.

With regard to serious scholarship, she notes that when Friedrich Meinecke, universally acknowledged as Germany’s most eminent historian, published The German Catastrophe in 1946, he harshly denounced Hitler as the leader of “a band of criminals” but made absolutely no mention of the Holocaust, which surely would have represented the height of such criminality. Major British accounts of Hitler and World War II by leading historians such as A.J.P. Taylor, H.R. Trevor-Roper, and Alan Bullock were almost as silent. A similar situation occurred in America as late as 1972 when the massive 1,237 page Columbia History of the World, having a Jewish co-editor, devoted a full chapter to World War II but confined its discussion of the Holocaust to just two short and somewhat ambiguous sentences. One almost gets a sense that many of these experienced professional historians treated discussion of the Holocaust as a considerable embarrassment, a subject that they sought to avoid or at least completely minimize.

Dawidowicz even castigates Slaughterhouse-Five, the 1969 fictional masterpiece by Kurt Vonnegut, for its bald assertion that the firebombing of Dresden was “the greatest massacre in European history,” a claim that seems to reduce the Holocaust to non-existence.

I myself had noticed something similar just a couple of years before Dawidowicz’s book appeared. The English translation of German journalist Joachim Fest’s widely praised Hitler had been published in 1974 and I had read it a few years later, finding it just as excellent as the critics had indicated. But I remember being a little puzzled that the 800 page book contained no more than a couple of pages discussing the Nazi death camps and the word “Jews” never even appeared in the index.

The vast majority of Hitler’s Jewish victims came from Russia and the Eastern European nations included in the Soviet Bloc. That was also the location of all the extermination camps that are the central focus of Holocaust scholars, and therefore the Soviets were the source of most of the key evidence used at the Nuremberg Trials. Yet Dawidowicz notes that after Stalin grew increasingly suspicious of Jews and Israel a few years after the end of the war, virtually all mention of the Holocaust and German wartime atrocities against Jews vanished from the Soviet media and history books. A similar process occurred in the Warsaw Pact satellites, even while the top Communist Party leadership of many of those countries often remained very heavily Jewish for some years. Indeed, I recall reading quite a number of newspaper articles mentioning that after the Berlin Wall fell and the sundered halves of Europe were finally reunited, most Eastern Europeans had never even heard of the Holocaust.

These days, my morning newspapers seem to carry Holocaust-related stories with astonishing frequency, and probably no event of the twentieth century looms so large in our public consciousness. According to public survey data, even as far back as 1995, some 97% of Americans knew of the Holocaust, far more than were aware of the Pearl Harbor attack or America’s use of the atomic bombs against Japan, while less than half our citizenry were aware that the Soviet Union had been our wartime ally. But I’d suspect that anyone who drew his knowledge from the mainstream newspapers and history books during the first couple of decades after the end of the Second World War might never have even been aware that any Holocaust had actually occurred.

ORDER IT NOW

In 1999 Peter Novick published a book on this general theme entitled The Holocaust in American Life, citing that survey, and his introduction began by noting the very strange pattern the Holocaust exhibited in its cultural influence, which seems quite unique among all major historical events. In the case of almost all other searing historical occurrences such as the massive bloodshed of the Somme or the bitter Vietnam War, their greatest impact upon popular consciousness and media came soon afterward, with the major books and films often appearing within the first five or ten years when memories were fresh, and the influence peaking within a couple of decades, after which they were gradually forgotten.

Yet in the case of the Holocaust, this pattern was completely reversed. Hardly anyone discussed it for the first twenty years after the end of the World War II, while it gradually moved to the center of American life in the 1970s, just as wartime memories were fading and many of the most prominent and knowledgeable figures from that era had departed the scene. Novick cites numerous studies and surveys demonstrating that this lack of interest and visibility certainly included the Jewish community itself, which had seemingly suffered so greatly under those events, yet apparently had almost completely forgotten about them during the 1950s and much of the 1960s.

I can certainly confirm that impression from my personal experience. Prior to the mid- or late-1970s, I had had only the vaguest impression that virtually all the Jews and Gypsies of Europe had been exterminated during the Second World War, and although the term “Holocaust” was in widespread use, it invariably referred to a “Nuclear Holocaust,” a term long-since supplanted and scarcely used today. Then, after the Berlin Wall fell, I was quite surprised to discover that Eastern Europe was still filled with vast numbers of unexterminated Gypsies, who quickly flooded into the West and provoked all sorts of political controversies.

The Rediscovery of the Holocaust

The late scholar Raul Hilberg is universally acknowledged as the founder of modern Holocaust studies, which began with the 1961 publication of his massive volume The Destruction of the European Jews. In his very interesting 2007 Hilberg obituary, historian Norman Finkelstein emphasizes that prior to Hilberg’s work, there had been virtually no writing on the Holocaust, and discussion of the topic was considered almost “taboo.” For a recent event of such apparent enormity to have been so completely wiped away from public discussion and the consciousness of historians and political scientists can be explained in several different ways. But once I began to investigate the circumstances behind Hilberg’s ground-breaking work, I encountered all sorts of strange ironies.

According to Wikipedia, Hilberg’s family of Austrian Jews coincidentally arrived in the United States on the exact day in 1939 that war broke out, and in his early teens he was soon horrified to read all the news reports of the ongoing extermination of his fellow Jews in the continent his family had left behind, even telephoning Jewish leaders asking why they were doing so little to save their kinsmen from annihilation. He subsequently served in the U.S. military in Europe, then majored in Political Science at Brooklyn College after the end of the conflict. The inspiration for his future scholarly focus seems to have come when he was shocked by a remark made by one of his lecturers, Hans Rosenberg:

The most wicked atrocities perpetrated on a civilian population in modern times occurred during the Napoleonic occupation of Spain.

When Hilberg asked how Rosenberg, himself a German-Jewish refugee, could have so totally ignored the murder of 6 million Jews, a monstrous crime committed just a couple of years earlier, Rosenberg sought to deflect the question, saying that “it was a complicated matter” and “history doesn’t teach down into the present age.” Since Rosenberg was a student of Meinecke, whom Lipstadt has bitterly denounced as an implicit Holocaust Denier, one wonders whether Rosenberg may have shared the beliefs of his mentor but was reluctant to admit that fact to his overwhelmingly Jewish students in emotionally-charged postwar Brooklyn.

Later, Hilberg conducted his doctoral research at Columbia under Franz Neumann, another German-Jewish refugee scholar. But when Hilberg indicated he wanted his research to focus on the extermination of Europe’s Jews, Neumann strongly discouraged that topic, warning Hilberg that doing so would be professionally imprudent and might become “his academic funeral.” When he attempted to publish his research in book form, it received numerous negative reviews, with Israel’s Yad Vashem fearing it would encounter “hostile criticism,” and over a six year period, it was rejected by several major publishing houses along with Princeton University, based on the advice of the influential Jewish intellectual Hannah Arendt. One naturally wonders whether all these established scholars may have quietly known something that a naive young doctoral candidate such as Hilberg did not. His book only appeared in print because a Jewish immigrant whose business had suffered under the Nazis funded the entire publication.

 

I’d never paid much attention to Holocaust issues, but the supporters of my local Palo Alto Library operate a monthly book sale, and with serious nonfiction hardcovers often priced at just a quarter each, my personal library has grown by hundreds of volumes over the years, now including several of the thickest and most influential Holocaust texts. Aside from Hilberg’s classic volume, these include Nora Levin’s The Holocaust (1968), Lucy Dawidowicz’s The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945 (1975), Martin Gilbert’s The Holocaust (1985), and Daniel Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners (1996).

I claim absolutely no expertise in Holocaust issues, and analyzing the evidence and argumentation these voluminous works offer is entirely beyond my ability. But I decided to attempt to assess their overall credibility by exploring a few particular items, without actually bothering to read the thousands of pages of text they provided.

Consider the interesting case of Field Marshal Erhard Milch, Hermann Goering’s very powerful number-two in the German Luftwaffe. His father was certainly a Jew, and according to researchers Robert Wistrich and Louis Snyder, there is archival evidence that his mother was Jewish as well. Now is it certainly not impossible that a Third Reich supposedly dedicated with grim fanaticism to the extermination of each and every Jew might have spent the entire war with a full- or half-Jew near the absolute top of its military hierarchy, but surely that puzzling anomaly would warrant careful explanation, and Milch’s apparent Jewish background was certainly known during the Nuremberg Trials.

Yet when I carefully consulted the very comprehensive indexes of those five books, totaling over 3,500 pages, there is virtually no discussion of Milch, except a few very brief mentions of his name in connection with various military operations. Either the authors were unaware of Milch’s Jewish background, or perhaps they hoped to keep that fact away from their readers lest it cause “confusion.” Neither of these possibilities enhances the trust we should place in their research skills or their scholarly objectivity.

Indeed, the fascinating and widely-praised 2002 book Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers by Bryan Mark Rigg notes that aside from Milch, Hitler’s military contained over a dozen half-Jewish generals and admirals and another dozen quarter-Jews of that same high rank, plus a total of roughly 150,000 additional half- or quarter-Jewish soldiers, with a large fraction of these being officers. All of these individuals would have had some fully-Jewish parents or grand-parents, which seems decidedly odd behavior for a regime supposedly so focused on the total eradication of the Jewish race.

Another obvious matter casts further doubt upon the historical quality of those five immensely thick volumes of standard Holocaust narrative, which together occupy nearly a linear foot on my bookshelves. For prosecutors of any crime, establishing a plausible motive is certainly an important goal, and in the case of the Jewish Holocaust, these authors would seem to have an easy task at hand. Hitler and his German colleagues had always claimed that the Jews overwhelmingly dominated Bolshevik Communism, and much of their struggle against the former was in order to prevent further bloody deeds of the latter. So surely devoting an early chapter or so to describing this central Nazi doctrine would provide an airtight explanation of what drove the Nazis to their fiendish slaughters, rendering fully explicable the horrifying events that would occupy the remainder of their text.

Yet oddly enough, an examination of their indexes for “Bolsheviks,” “Communism,” and all variants reveals almost no discussion of this important issue. Goldhagen’s 1996 book provides just a couple of short sentences spread across his 600 pages, and the other works seem to contain virtually nothing at all. Since all of these Holocaust books almost totally avoid Hitler’s self-declared motive for his anti-Jewish actions, they are forced to desperately search for alternative explanations, seeking clues buried deep within the German past or turning to psychanalytical speculations or perhaps deciding that what they describe as the greatest massacre in all human history was undertaken out of sheer Nazi wickedness.

The obvious reason for this glaring omission is that the authors are constructing a morality-play in which the Jews must be portrayed as absolutely blameless victims, and even hinting at their role in the numerous Communist atrocities that long preceded the rise of the Third Reich might cause readers to consider both sides of the issue. When purported historians go to absurd lengths to hide such glaring facts, they unmask themselves as propagandists, and we must be very cautious about trusting their reliability and candor in all other matters, whether great or small.

 

Indeed, the issue of Communism raises a far larger matter, one having rather touchy implications. Sometimes two simple compounds are separately inert, but when combined together may possess tremendous explosive force. From my introductory history classes and readings in high school, certain things had always seemed glaringly obvious to me even if the conclusions remained unmentionable, and I once assumed they were just as apparent to most others as well. But over the years I have begun to wonder whether perhaps this might not be correct.

Back in those late Cold War days, the death toll of innocent civilians from the Bolshevik Revolution and the first two decades of the Soviet Regime was generally reckoned at running well into the tens of millions when we include the casualties of the Russian Civil War, the government-induced famines, the Gulag, and the executions. I’ve heard that these numbers have been substantially revised downwards to perhaps as little as twenty million or so, but no matter. Although determined Soviet apologists may dispute such very large figures, they have always been part of the standard narrative history taught within the West.

Meanwhile, all historians know perfectly well that the Bolshevik leaders were overwhelmingly Jewish, with three of the five revolutionaries Lenin named as his plausible successors coming from that background. Although only around 4% of Russia’s population was Jewish, a few years ago Vladimir Putin stated that Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government, an estimate fully consistent with the contemporaneous claims of Winston Churchill, Times of London correspondent Robert Wilton, and the officers of American Military Intelligence. Recent books by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Yuri Slezkine, and others have all painted a very similar picture. And prior to World War II, Jews remained enormously over-represented in the Communist leadership, especially dominating the Gulag administration and the top ranks of the dreaded NKVD.

Both of these simple facts have been widely accepted in America throughout my entire lifetime. But combine them together with the relatively tiny size of worldwide Jewry, around 16 million prior to World War II, and the inescapable conclusion is that in per capita terms Jews were the greatest mass-murderers of the twentieth century, holding that unfortunate distinction by an enormous margin and with no other nationality coming even remotely close. And yet, by the astonishing alchemy of Hollywood, the greatest killers of the last one hundred years have somehow been transmuted into being seen as the greatest victims, a transformation so seemingly implausible that future generations will surely be left gasping in awe.

Today’s American Neocons are just as heavily Jewish as were the Bolsheviks of a hundred years ago, and they have greatly benefited from the political immunity provided by this totally bizarre inversion of historical reality. Partly as a consequence of their media-fabricated victimhood status, they have managed to seize control over much of our political system, especially our foreign policy, and have spent the last few years doing their utmost to foment an absolutely insane war with nuclear-armed Russia. If they do manage to achieve that unfortunate goal, they will surely outdo the very impressive human body-count racked up by their ethnic ancestors, perhaps even by an order-of-magnitude or more.

Holocaust Frauds and Confusions

Since the Holocaust only became a major public topic after wartime memories had grown dim, the story has always seemed to suffer from the problems traditionally associated with “recovered memory syndrome.” Truths and falsehoods were often mixed together in strange ways, and the door was opened wide to an astonishing number of outright frauds and liars.

For example, in the late 1970s I remember many of my high school classmates devouring The Painted Bird by Jerzy Kosinski, perhaps the first widely popular Holocaust memoir. But then a few years later, the media revealed that Kosinski’s national best-seller was simply fraudulent, and the plagiarizing author eventually committed suicide. Indeed, there have been so many fake Holocaust memoirs over the years that they nearly constitute a literary genre of their own.

Probably the most world’s most famous Holocaust survivor was Elie Wiesel, who parlayed the stories of his wartime suffering into becoming an enormous political celebrity. His career was capped with a Nobel Peace Prize in 1986, and the announcement declared him “a messenger to mankind.” Yet journalist Alexander Cockburn has persuasively argued that Wiesel was simply a fraud, and his famous autobiographical work Night just another literary hoax.

Although the iconic figure of “the Six Million” has been endlessly repeated by our media, the estimated numbers of the dead have actually been shockingly variable over the years. Although I never paid much attention to Holocaust issues, I have closely read my major newspapers and magazines for decades, and had regularly seen the statement that the Nazi death machine had brutally exterminated five million Gentiles along with the six million Jews. But just last year, I was stunned to discover that former total was simply a whole-cloth invention by prominent Holocaust-activist Simon Wiesenthal, who simply made the figure up one day with the intent of giving non-Jews more of a stake in the Holocaust story. And despite being based on absolutely no evidence or research, his casual claim was never effectively refuted by actual Holocaust scholars, who knew it to be total nonsense, and therefore it was so regularly repeated in the media that I probably read it hundreds of times over the years, always assuming it had some firm grounding in proven reality.

Similarly, for decades I had always read the undeniable fact that the Nazis had exterminated 4 million inmates at Auschwitz, with most of the victims being Jews, and Lipstadt certainly treated that number as absolutely rock-solid historical reality. But in the early 1990s after the fall of Communism, the official total was quietly revised downwards to as little as 1.1 million. The fact that a sudden reduction in the official Holocaust body-count by 3 million has had so little impact upon our public Holocaust media narrative hardly seems to inspire great confidence in either the total figures or the media reporting of them.

Over the last couple of generations, our media has engraved that figure of Six Million so deeply onto the minds of every Western citizen that the meaning of the iconic number is universally understood, and those who question it risk a prison sentence in many European countries. Yet its actual origin is somewhat obscure. According to some accounts, Jewish groups lobbied President Truman into casually inserting it into one of his speeches, and thereafter it has endlessly echoed in the media down to the present day. Some angry Internet activist has put together a graphic displaying extracts from dozens of New York Times stories between 1869 and 1941 all citing the figure of 6 million Eastern European Jews as being threatened with death, suggesting that our official Holocaust body-count actually predated World War II by as much as three generations. I really wouldn’t be surprised if that might be the original source of the number.

Sometimes the creation of a new Holocaust hoax was only narrowly averted. Throughout most of the twentieth century, Jews and blacks had been close political allies in America, with the top leadership of the NAACP almost invariably being Jewish, as were nearly all of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s top white advisors and a very large fraction of the key white activists involved in the black Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. But by the late 1960s, a schism had erupted, with many younger black activists becoming deeply hostile to what they perceived as overwhelming Jewish influence, while more militant blacks, whether Muslim or otherwise, began siding with the Palestinians against Zionist Israel. This growing conflict became especially bitter during Jesse Jackson’s presidential campaign of 1988 and reached a flash-point in the New York City of the early 1990s.

A couple of film-makers sought to help heal this rift by producing a major 1992 PBS documentary entitled The Liberators, recounting how black American troops had been among the first units that captured the Buchenwald and Dachau concentration camps, thereby freeing the tens of thousands of Jewish inmates from Nazi captivity. A historical narrative of such deep symbolic resonance quickly attracted overwhelming support from both black leaders and Jewish ones, with Jesse Jackson sharing the stage with Holocaust survivors and numerous Jewish luminaries at the Harlem premiere, and the film received an Oscar nomination. However, in early Febuary 1993 Jeffrey Goldberg took to the pages of The New Republic to reveal that the story was merely a hoax, based on falsified history. Although the film’s Jewish co-producer angrily denounced her critics as racists and Holocaust Deniers, those charges stuck, and were eventually reported in the New York Times and other major media outlets. The leading Jewish organizations and Holocaust centers that had been heavily promoting the film soon distanced themselves, and in 2013 The Times of Israel even marked the twenty-year anniversary of what it described as a notorious hoax. But I suspect that if matters had gone a little differently, the story might soon have become so deeply embedded in the canonical Holocaust narrative that anyone questioning the facts would have been vilified as a racist.

 

A few years earlier, The New Republic had actually been in the forefront of promoting a different hoax also relating to Jewish issues, one which might have had far greater international political significance when Joan Peters, an obscure Jewish writer, published a major historical work in 1984. She claimed that her extensive archival research had revealed that the bulk of the present-day Palestinians were actually not native to Palestine, but instead were recently-arrived immigrants, drawn there by the heavy economic development produced by the Zionist settlers who had actually preceded them.

Her shocking findings received hundreds of glowing reviews and academic endorsements across the entire spectrum of the mainstream and elite American media, and her book quickly became a huge bestseller. Leading Jewish Holocaust luminaries such as Dawidowicz and Wiesel took center stage in praising her remarkable scholarship, which seemed likely to completely demolish the claims of the expelled Palestinians, thereby reshaping the nature of the Middle East conflict to Israel’s great advantage.

ORDER IT NOW

However, a young graduate student in History at Princeton named Norman Finkelstein had considerable interest in the history of Zionism, and being very much surprised by her findings, decided to investigate those claims. Once he began carefully checking her footnotes and her alleged sources, he discovered they were entirely fraudulent, and her groundbreaking research merely amounted to a hoax, which some later suggested had been concocted by an intelligence organization and merely published under her name.

Although Finkelstein widely distributed his important findings, they were totally ignored by all the American journalists, scholars, and media organizations he contacted, with the sole exception of Noam Chomsky, and the growing Joan Peters Hoax might have destroyed the legal basis of the international Palestinian claims to their own Palestine homeland. But some independent-minded British publications eventually picked up his information, and the resulting wave of media embarrassment caused the Peters claims to fade into oblivion. Meanwhile, Finkelstein himself suffered severe retaliation as a consequence, and according to Chomsky was completely blacklisted by his Princeton department and the wider academic community.

ORDER IT NOW

More than a dozen years later, Finkelstein’s work became the focus of a second major controversy. In the late 1990s, international Jewish organizations launched a major effort to extract many billions of dollars from the largest Swiss banks, arguing that such funds were the rightful property of European Jews who had died in the Holocaust. When the banks initially resisted, arguing that no solid evidence was being presented for such enormous claims, they were harshly denounced by America’s Jewish-dominated media, and Jewish lobbying led the American government to threaten them with severe financial sanctions that could have destroyed their businesses. Faced with such serious extortionate pressure, the banks finally gave way and paid out the bulk of the funds being demanded, with those billions mostly retained by the Jewish organizations leading the campaign and spent on their own projects since the purported Jewish heirs were impossible to locate.

This situation led historian Finkelstein to publish a short book in 2000 entitled The Holocaust Industry, in which he harshly critiqued what he characterized as a global Jewish money-making enterprise aimed at unfairly extracting wealth on behalf of the supposed Holocaust victims, often with little regard for truth or fairness. Although almost entirely ignored by the American media, it became a major bestseller in Europe, which eventually forced American publications to give it some attention. Among other things, Finkelstein noted that more than a half-century after the end of the Holocaust, the number of officially designated Holocaust survivors had grown so large that simple mortality considerations seemed to imply that huge numbers of European Jews must have survived the war. This obviously raised serious questions about how many might have actually died during that conflict and its accompanying Holocaust.

Over the years, I had noticed the same sorts of media reports claiming enormous totals of Holocaust survivors still alive now six or seven decades after the event. For example, even as late as 2009 an official at Israel’s Jewish Agency justified laws criminalizing Holocaust Denial by explaining that almost 65 years after the end of the war “there are still hundreds of thousands of living Holocaust survivors,” a statement which itself seems to constitute rather explicit Holocaust Denial. Indeed, a very noticeable number of all the New York Times obituaries I read these days in my morning newspapers seem to include Holocaust survivors still expiring in their eighties and nineties.

Anyone who reads serious history books knows that Jews have generally enjoyed a reputation for producing many of the world’s greatest swindlers and frauds, hardly surprising given their notorious tendency to lie and dissemble. Meanwhile, the Jewish community also seems to contain far more than its fair share of the emotionally disturbed and the mentally ill, and perhaps as a consequence has served as a launching-pad for many of the world’s religious cults and fanatic ideological movements. Any exploration of the Holocaust certainly tends to support this rather negative appraisal.

The Holocaust and Hollywood

Although the Holocaust began to enter American consciousness during the 1960s and 1970s with the publication of major books by Hilberg, Levin, Dawidowicz, and others, together with the resulting articles and reviews that these generated, the initial social impact was probably not substantial, at least outside the Jewish community. Even highly successful books selling in the many tens of thousands of copies would have little impact in a population of more than 200 million.

Our media completely shapes our perceived reality of the world, and although intellectuals and many of the highly educated are greatly influenced by books and other forms of printed content, the vast majority of the population understands the world through electronic media, especially that of popular entertainment.

Consider, for example, the 1974 publication of Time on the Cross: The Economics of American Negro Slavery, a magisterial two volume analysis by economists Robert William Fogel and Stanley L. Engerman. By applying quantitative methods, the study overturned generations of assumptions about the American social institution, demonstrating that black slaves in the South were encouraged to marry and maintain their households, while having diets and medical care comparable to that of the free white population and often superior to that of Northern industrial wage-earners. Moreover, following emancipation the life expectancy of freedmen declined by ten percent and their illnesses increased by twenty per cent. All of this is summarized in the extensive Wikipedia entry.

Although their results were controversial, the authors had the strongest possible academic credentials, with Fogel, an eminent scholar, being a leading figure in a school of economics who went on to win a Nobel Prize. And Fogel’s ideological credentials were even more robust, given that he had had a lifelong commitment to black Civil Rights starting with the eight years he had spent as a young Communist Party organizer, while his 1949 marriage to a black woman had often subjected the couple to the indignities of the anti-miscegenation laws of that era. Consequently, their findings received unprecedented coverage in the mainstream media for an academic study and surely influenced numerous historians and journalists. Yet I think the long-term impact upon popular perceptions about slavery has been almost nil.

By contrast, in 1976 the ABC television network ran the prime-time miniseries Roots, a multi-generational account of a slave family. The story closely adhered to the traditionally harsh slavery narrative, while supposedly being based upon the recorded family history of Alex Haley, the author of the best-selling book of that same title. But although his work was later found to be fraudulent and apparently plagiarized, the ratings were stellar and the social impact enormous due to the audience of 100 million Americans who watched those episodes. Thus, even the most impressive written scholarship had absolutely no chance of competing with fictionalized television drama.

All three of America’s television networks were under Jewish ownership or control, so it was hardly surprising that two years later ABC decided to repeat this process with the 1978 television miniseries Holocaust, which also achieved an audience of 100 million and generated enormous profits. It seems quite possible this may have been the first time many American families discovered that colossal but almost entirely invisible event of World War II.

The following year, William Styron published Sophie’s Choice, a heart-rending tale involving deeply buried memories of the extermination of Christian Polish children in the Auschwitz gas chambers. Although such an occurrence was absolutely contrary to the doctrines of all Jewish Holocaust scholars, the novel became a huge national best-seller anyway, and a 1982 film of the same name soon followed, with Meryl Streep winning an Oscar for Best Actress. A decade later, Steven Spielberg’s 1993 Schindler’s List won a remarkable seven Oscars, while grossing nearly $100 million.

With Hollywood so overwhelmingly Jewish, the consequences were hardly surprising, and a huge cinematic genre soon developed. According to Finkelstein, Hollywood produced some 180 Holocaust films just during the years 1989-2004. Even the very partial subset of Holocaust films listed on Wikipedia has grown enormously long, but fortunately the Movie Database has winnowed down the catalog by providing a list of the 50 Most Moving Holocaust Films.

Many billions of dollars have surely been invested over the years on the total production costs of this ongoing business enterprise. For most ordinary people, “seeing is believing,” and how could anyone seriously doubt the reality of the Holocaust after having seen all the gas chambers and mounds of murdered Jewish corpses constructed by highly-paid Hollywood set designers? Doubting the existence of Spiderman and the Incredible Hulk would be almost as absurd.

Some 2% of Americans have a Jewish background, while perhaps 95% possess Christian roots, but the Wikipedia list of Christian films seems rather scanty and rudimentary by comparison. Very few of those films were ever widely released, and the selection is stretched to even include The Chronicles of Narnia, which contains no mention of Christianity whatsoever. One of the very few prominent exceptions on the list is Mel Gibson’s 2004 The Passion of the Christ, which he was forced to personally self-fund. And despite the enormous financial success of that movie, one of the most highly profitable domestic releases of all time, the project rendered Gibson a hugely vilified pariah in the industry over which he had once reigned as its biggest star, especially after word got around that his own father was a Holocaust Denier.

 

In many respects, Hollywood and the broader entertainment media today provide the unifying spiritual basis of our deeply secular society, and the overwhelming predominance of Holocaust-themed films over Christian ones has obvious implications. Meanwhile, in our globalized world, the American entertainment-media complex totally dominates Europe and the rest of the West, so that the ideas generated here effectively shape the minds of many hundreds of millions of people living elsewhere, whether or not they fully recognize that fact.

In 2009, Pope Benedict XVI sought to heal the long-standing Vatican II rift within the Catholic Church and reconcile with the breakaway Society of St. Pius X faction. But this became a major media controversy when it was discovered that Bishop Richard Williamson, one of the leading members of that latter organization, had long been a Holocaust Denier and also believed that Jews should convert to Christianity. Although the many other differences in Catholic doctrinal faith were fully negotiable, apparently refusing to accept the reality of the Holocaust was not, and Williamson remained estranged from the Catholic Church. Soon afterward he was even prosecuted for heresy by the German government.

Internet critics have suggested that over the last couple of generations, energetic Jewish activists have successfully lobbied Western nations into replacing their traditional religion of Christianity with the new religion of Holocaustianity, and the Williamson Affair certainly seems to support that conclusion.

Consider the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. Funded by Jewish interests, it spent years launching vicious attacks against Christianity, sometimes in crudely pornographic fashion, and also periodically vilified Islam. Such activities were hailed by French politicians as proof of the total freedom of thought allowed in the land of Voltaire. But the moment that one of its leading cartoonists made a very mild joke related to Jews, he was immediately fired, and if the publication had ever ridiculed the Holocaust, it surely would have been immediately shut down, and its entire staff possibly thrown into prison.

Western journalists and human rights advocates have often expressed support for the boldly transgressive activities of the Jewish-funded Femen activists when they desecrate Christian churches all around the world. But such pundits would certainly be in an uproar if anyone were to act in similar fashion toward the growing international network of Holocaust Museums, most of them built at public expense.

Indeed, one of the underlying sources of bitter Western conflict with Vladimir Putin’s Russia seems to be that he has restored Christianity to a favored place in a society where the early Bolsheviks had once dynamited churches and massacred many thousands of priests. Western intellectual elites held far more positive feelings toward the USSR while its leaders retained a stridently anti-Christian attitude.

The Rise and Suppression of Holocaust Denial

Since the Holocaust had been almost unknown in America until the mid-1960s, explicit Holocaust Denial was equally non-existent, but as the former grew in visibility following the publication of Hilberg’s 1961 book, the latter soon began to awaken as well.

Lipstadt’s vilification of Barnes as the “godfather” of Holocaust Denial does contain a nugget of truth. His posthumously-published 1968 review endorsing Rassinier’s denialist analysis seems to be the first such substantial statement published anywhere in America, at least if we exclude Beaty’s very casual 1951 dismissal of the Jewish claims, which seem to have attracted negligible public attention.

Near the end of the 1960s, a right-wing publisher named Willis Carto came across a short and unpolished Holocaust Denial manuscript, apparently produced some years earlier, and he ignored legal niceties by simply putting it into print. The purported author then sued for plagiarism, and although the case was eventually settled, his identity eventually leaked out as being that of David L. Hoggan, a Barnes protege with a Harvard Ph.D. in history serving as a junior faculty member at Stanford. His desire for anonymity was aimed at preventing the destruction of his career, but he failed in that effort, and further academic appointments quickly dried up.

Meanwhile, Murray Rothbard, the founding father of modern libertarianism, had always been a strong supporter of historical Revisionism, and greatly admired Barnes, who for decades had been the leading figure in that field. Barnes had also briefly hinted at his general skepticism about the Holocaust in a lengthy 1967 article appearing in the Rampart Journal, a short-lived libertarian publication, and this may have been noticed within those ideological circles. It appears that by the early 1970s, Holocaust Denial had become a topic of some discussion within America’s heavily Jewish but fiercely free-thinking libertarian community, and this was to have an important consequence.

A professor of Electrical Engineering at Northwestern named Arthur R. Butz was casually visiting some libertarian gathering during this period when he happened to notice a pamphlet denouncing the Holocaust as a fraud. He had never previously given any thought to the issue, but such a shocking claim captured his attention, and he began looking into the matter early in 1972. He soon decided that the accusation was probably correct, but found the supporting evidence, including that presented in the unfinished and anonymous Hoggan book, far too sketchy, and decided it needed to be fleshed out in much more detailed and comprehensive fashion. He proceeded to undertake this project over the next few years, working with the methodical diligence of a trained academic engineer.

His major work, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, first appeared in print late in 1976, and immediately became the central text of the Holocaust Denial community, a position it still seems to retain down to this present day, while with all the updates and appendices, the length has grown to well over 200,000 words. Although no mention of this forthcoming book appeared in the February 1976 issue of Reason, it is possible that word of the pending publication had gotten around within libertarian circles, prompting the sudden new focus upon historical Revisionism.

Butz was a respectable tenured professor at Northwestern, and the release of his book laying out the Holocaust Denial case soon became a minor sensation, covered by the New York Times and other media outlets in January 1977. In one of her books, Lipstadt devotes a full chapter entitled “Entering the Mainstream” to Butz’s work. According to a December 1980 Commentary article by Dawidowicz, Jewish donors and Jewish activists quickly mobilized, attempting to have Butz fired for his heretical views, but back then academic tenure still held firm and Butz survived, an outcome that seems to have greatly irritated Dawidowicz.

Such a detailed and comprehensive book laying out the Holocaust Denial case naturally had a considerable impact on the national debate, especially since the author was a mainstream and apparently apolitical academic, and an American edition of Butz’s book soon appeared in 1977. I’m very pleased to have made arrangements to include the volume in my collection of Controversial HTML Books, so those interested can easily read it and decide for themselves.

 

The following year, these Holocaust Denial trends seemed to gain further momentum as Carto opened a small new publishing enterprise in California called the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), which launched a quarterly periodical entitled The Journal of Historical Review in 1980. Both the IHR and its JHR publication centered their efforts around Revisionism in general, but with Holocaust Denial being their major focus. Lipstadt devotes an entire chapter to the IHR, later noting that most of the main authors of the February 1976 Reason issue soon became affiliated with that project or with other Carto enterprises, as did Butz, while the editorial board of the JHR was soon well-stocked with numerous Ph.D.’s, often earned at highly-reputable universities. For the next quarter century or so, the IHR would hold small conferences every year or two, with David Irving eventually becoming a regular presenter, and even fully mainstream figures such as Pulitzer Prize-winning historian John Toland occasionally appearing as speakers.

As an important example of IHR efforts, in 1983 the organization published The Dissolution of Eastern Europe Jewry, a very detailed quantitative analysis of the underlying demographics and population movements around the period encompassed by World War II, apparently the first such study undertaken. The author, writing under the pen-name Walter N. Sanning, sought to revise the extremely simplistic population analysis casually assumed by Holocaust historians.

Before the war, millions of Jews had lived in Eastern Europe, and after the war, those communities had mostly vanished. This undeniable fact has long stood as an implicit central pillar of the traditional Holocaust narrative. But drawing upon entirely mainstream sources, Sanning persuasively demonstrates that the situation was actually far more complicated than it might seem. For example, it was widely reported at the time that vast numbers of Polish Jews had been transported by the Soviets to locations deep within their territory, on both voluntary and involuntary terms, with future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin being including in those transfers. In addition, huge numbers of heavily urbanized Soviet Jews were similarly evacuated ahead of the advancing German forces in 1941. The exact size of these population movements has long been uncertain and disputed, but Sanning’s careful analysis of postwar Soviet census data and other sources suggests that the totals were likely towards the upper end of most estimates. Sanning makes no claim that his findings are definitive, but even if they are only partially correct, such results would certainly preclude the reality of traditional Holocaust numbers.

Another regular IHR participant was Robert Faurisson. As a professor of literature at the University of Lyons-2, he began expressing his public skepticism about the Holocaust during the 1970s, and the resulting media uproar led to efforts to remove him from his position, while a petition was signed on his behalf by 200 international scholars, including famed MIT professor Noam Chomsky. Faurisson stuck to his opinions, but attacks persisted, including a brutal beating by Jewish militants that hospitalized him, while a French political candidate espousing similar views was assassinated. Jewish activist organizations began lobbying for laws to broadly outlaw the activities of Faurisson and others, and in 1990, soon after the Berlin Wall fell and research at Auschwitz and other Holocaust sites suddenly became far easier, France passed a statute criminalizing Holocaust Denial, apparently the first nation after defeated Germany to do so. During the years that followed, large numbers of other Western countries did the same, setting the disturbing precedent of resolving scholarly disputes via prison sentences, a softer form of the same policy followed in Stalinist Russia.

Since Faurisson was a literary scholar, it is not entirely surprising that one of his major interests was The Diary of Anne Frank, generally regarded as the Holocaust’s iconic literary classic, telling the story of a young Jewish girl who died after being deported from Holland to Auschwitz. He argued that the text was substantially fraudulent, written by someone else after the end of the war, and for decades various determined individuals have argued the case back and forth. I cannot properly evaluate any of their complex arguments, which apparently involve questions of ballpoint pen technology and textual emendations, nor have I ever read the book itself.

But for me, the most striking aspect of the story is the girl’s actual fate under the official narrative, as recounted in the thoroughly establishmentarian Wikipedia entry. Apparently disease was raging in her camp despite the best efforts of the Germans to control it, and she soon became quite ill, mostly remaining bedridden in the infirmary, before eventually dying from typhus in Spring 1945 at a different camp about six months after her initial arrival. It seems rather odd to me that a young Jewish girl who fell severely ill at Auschwitz would have spent so much time in camp hospitals and eventually die there, given that we are told the primary purpose of Auschwitz and other such camps was the efficient extermination of its Jewish inmates.

 

By the mid-1990s the Holocaust Denial movement seemed to be gaining in public visibility, presumably aided by the doubts raised after the official 1992 announcement that the estimated deaths at Auschwitz had been reduced by around 3 million.

For example, the February 1995 issue of Marco Polo, a glossy Japanese magazine with a circulation of 250,000, carried a long article declaring that the gas chambers of the Holocaust were a propaganda hoax. Israel and Jewish-activist groups quickly responded, organizing a widespread advertising boycott of all the publications of the parent company, one of Japan’s most respected publishers, which quickly folded in the face of that serious threat. All copies of the issue were recalled from the newspapers, the staffers were dismissed, and the entire magazine was soon shut down, while the president of the parent company was forced to resign.

In exploring the history of Holocaust Denial, I have noticed this same sort of recurrent pattern, most typically involving individuals rather than institutions. Someone highly-regarded and fully mainstream decides to investigate the controversial topic, and soon comes to conclusions that sharply deviate from the official truth of the last two generations. For various reasons, those views become public, and he is immediately demonized by the Jewish-dominated media as a horrible extremist, perhaps mentally-deranged, while being relentlessly hounded by a ravenous pack of fanatic Jewish-activists. This usually brings about the destruction of his career.

In the early 1960s Stanford historian David Hoggan produced his anonymous manuscript The Myth of the Six Million, but once it got into circulation and his identity became known, his academic career was destroyed. A dozen years later, something along the same lines happened with Northwestern Electrical Engineering professor Arthur Butz, and only his academic tenure saved him from a similar fate.

Fred Leuchter was widely regarded as one of America’s leading expert specialists on the technology of executions, and a long article in The Atlantic treated him as such. During the 1980s, Ernst Zundel, a prominent Canadian Holocaust Denier, was facing trial for his disbelief in the Auschwitz gas chambers, and one of his expert witnesses was an American prison warden with some experience in such systems, who recommended involving Leuchter, one of the foremost figures in the field. Leuchter soon took a trip to Poland and closely inspected the purported Auschwitz gas chambers, then published the Leuchter Report, concluding that they were obviously a fraud and could not possibly have worked in the manner Holocaust scholars had always claimed. The ferocious attacks which followed soon cost him his entire business career and destroyed his marriage.

David Irving had ranked as the world’s most successful World War II historian, with his books selling in the millions amid glowing coverage in the top British newspapers when he agreed to appear as an expert witness at the Zundel trial. He had always previously accepted the conventional Holocaust narrative, but reading the Leuchter Report changed his mind, and he concluded that the Auschwitz gas chambers were just a myth. He was quickly subjected to unrelenting media attacks, which first severely damaged and then ultimately destroyed his very illustrious publishing career, and he later even served time in an Austrian prison for his unacceptable views.

Dr. Germar Rudolf was a successful young German chemist working at the prestigious Max Planck Institute when he heard of the controversy regarding the Leuchter Report, which he found reasonably persuasive but containing some weaknesses. Therefore, he repeated the analysis on a more thorough basis, and published the results as the Chemistry of Auschwitz, which came to the same conclusions as Leuchter. And just like Leuchter before him, Rudolf suffered the destruction of his career and his marriage, and since Germany treats these matters in harsher fashion, he eventually served five years in prison for his scientific impudence.

Most recently, Dr. Nicholas Kollerstrom, who had spent eleven years as a historian of science on the staff of University College, London, suffered this same fate in 2008. His scientific interests in the Holocaust provoked a media firestorm of vilification, and he was fired with a single day’s notice, becoming the first member of his research institution ever expelled for ideological reasons. He had previously provided the Isaac Newton entry for a massive biographical encyclopedia of astronomers, and America’s most prestigious science journal demanded that the entire work be pulped, destroying the work of over 100 writers, because it had been fatally tainted by having such a villainous contributor. He recounted this unfortunate personal history as an introduction to his 2014 book Breaking the Spell, which I highly recommend.

Kollerstrom’s text effectively summarizes much of the more recent Holocaust Denial evidence, including the official Auschwitz death books returned by Gorbachev after the end of the Cold War, which indicate that Jewish fatalities were some 99% lower than the widely-believed total. Furthermore, Jewish deaths actually showed a sharp decline once plentiful supplies of Zyklon B arrived, exactly contrary to what might have been expected under the conventional account. He also discusses the interesting new evidence contained in the British wartime decrypts of all German communications between the various concentration camps and the Berlin headquarters. Much of this material is presented in an interesting two hour interview on Red Ice Radio, conveniently available on YouTube:

The lives and careers of a very sizable number of other individuals have followed this same unfortunate sequence, which in much of Europe often ends in criminal prosecution and imprisonment. Most notably, a German lawyer who became a bit too bold in her legal arguments soon joined her client behind bars, and as a consequence, it has become increasingly difficult for accused Holocaust Deniers to secure effective legal representation. By Kollerstrom’s estimates, many thousands of individuals are currently serving time across Europe for Holocaust Denial.

EuropeanDenial

My impression is that by the late 1960s, the old Soviet Bloc countries had mostly stopped imprisoning people merely for questioning Marxist-Leninist dogma, and reserved their political prisons only for those actively organizing against the regime, while Holocaust Denial is treated today in far harsher fashion. One clear difference is that actual belief in Communist doctrine had entirely faded away to almost nothing even among the Communist leadership itself, while these days Holocaustianity is still a young and deeply held faith, at least within a small slice of the population that exerts enormously disproportionate leverage over our public institutions.

Another obvious factor is the many billions of dollars currently at stake in what Finkelstein has aptly characterized as “the Holocaust Industry.” For example, potentially enormous new claims are now being reopened against Poland for Jewish property that was lost or confiscated during the World War II era.

In America, the situation is somewhat different, and our First Amendment still protects Holocaust Deniers against imprisonment, though the efforts of the ADL and various other groups to criminalize “hate speech” are clearly aimed at eventually removing that obstacle. But in the meantime, crippling social and economic sanctions are often used to pursue the same objectives.

Furthermore, various Internet monopolies have been gradually persuaded or co-opted into preventing the easy distribution of dissenting information. There have been stories in the media over the last few years that Google has been censoring or redirecting its Holocaust search results away from those disputing the official narrative. Even more ominously, Amazon, our current near-monopolistic retailer of books, last year took the unprecedented step of banning thousands of Holocaust Denial works, presumably lest they “confuse” curious readers, so it is fortunate that I had purchased mine a couple of years earlier. These parallels with George Orwell’s 1984 are really quite striking, and the “Iron Curtain Over America” that Beaty had warned about in his 1951 book of that title seems much closer to becoming a full reality.

Various figures in the Holocaust Denial community have attempted to mitigate this informational blacklist, and Dr. Rudolf some time ago established a website HolocaustHandbooks.com, which allows a large number of the key volumes to be purchased or easily read on-line in a variety of different formats. But the growing censorship by Amazon, Google, and other Internet monopolies greatly reduces the likelihood that anyone will readily encounter the information.

 

Obviously, most supporters of the conventional Holocaust narrative would prefer to win their battles on the level playing fields of analysis rather than by utilizing economic or administrative means to incapacitate their opponents. But I have seen little evidence that they have enjoyed any serious success in this regard.

Aside from the various books by Lipstadt, which I found to be of poor quality and quite unpersuasive, one of the most energetic Holocaust supporters of the last couple of decades seems to have been Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic magazine, who had earned his degrees in psychology and the history of science.

ORDER IT NOW

In 1997, he published Why People Believe Weird Things, seeking to debunk all sorts of irrational beliefs popular in certain circles, with the book’s subtitle describing these as “pseudo-science” and “superstition.” His cover text focused on ESP, alien abductions, and witchcraft, but rebutting Holocaust Denial was the single largest portion of that book, encompassing three full chapters. His discussion of this latter subject was rather superficial, and he probably undercut his credibility by grouping it together with his debunking of the scientific reality of “race” as a similar right-wing fallacy, one also long since disproved by mainstream scientists. Regarding the latter issue, he went on to argue that the alleged black-white differences claimed in works such as The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray was entirely pseudo-scientific nonsense, and he emphasized that book and similar ones had been promoted by the same pro-Nazi groups who advocated Holocaust Denial, with those two pernicious doctrines being closely linked together. Shermer had recruited Harvard professor Stephen Jay Gould to write the Foreword for his book and that raises serious questions about his knowledge or his judgment since Gould is widely regarded as one of the most notorious scientific frauds of the late twentieth century.

ORDER IT NOW

In 2000, Shermer returned to the battle, publishing Denying History, entirely focused on refuting Holocaust Denial. This time he recruited Holocaust scholar Alex Grobman as his co-author and acknowledged the generous financial support he had received from various Jewish organizations. A large portion of the text seemed to focus on the psychology and sociology of Holocaust Deniers, trying to explain why people could believe in such patently absurd nonsense. Indeed, so much space was devoted to those issues that he was forced to entirely skip over the official reduction of the Auschwitz body-count by 3 million just a few years earlier, thus avoiding any need to explain why this large shift had had no impact on the canonical Holocaust figure of Six Million.

 

Although various writers such as Shermer may have been encouraged by generous financial subsidies to make fools of themselves, their more violent allies on the extreme fringe have probably had a greater impact on the Holocaust debate. Although judicial and economic sanctions may deter the vast majority of Holocaust Deniers from showing their face, extra-legal violence has also often been deployed against those hardy souls who remain undeterred.

For example, during the 1980s the offices and warehouse storage facilities of the IHR in Southern California were fire-bombed and totally destroyed by Jewish militants. And although Canada has traditionally had little political violence, in 1995 the large, ramshackle house that served as the residence and business office of Canada’s Ernst Zundel, one of the world’s leading publishers and distributers of Holocaust Denial literature, was similarly fire-bombed and burned to the ground. Zundel had already faced several criminal prosecutions on charges of spreading “false news,” and eventually served years in prison, before being deported back to his native Germany, where he served additional imprisonment. Various other prominent Holocaust Deniers have even faced threats of assassination.

Most historians and other academic scholars are quiet souls, and surely the looming threat of such serious terroristic violence must have dissuaded many of them from involving themselves in such obviously controversial issues. Meanwhile, relentless financial and social pressure may gradually wear down both individuals and organizations, causing them to eventually either abandon the field or become far less active, with their places sometimes taken by newcomers.

The year after the 9/11 attacks, the JHR ceased print publication. The growth of the Internet was probably an important contributing factor, and with the national focus shifting so sharply toward foreign policy and the Middle East, its IHR parent organization became much less active, while much of the ongoing debate in Revisionism and Holocaust Denial shifted to various other online venues. But at some point over the years, the JHR digitized many hundreds of its articles and posted them on its website, providing over three million words of generally very high-quality historical content.

Over the last couple of months, I have been repeatedly surprised to discover that the historians associated with the IHR had long ago published articles on topics quite parallel to some of my own. For example, after I published an article on the Suvorov Hypothesis that Germany’s Barbarossa attack had preempted Stalin’s planned attack and conquest of Europe, someone informed me that a reviewer had extensively discussed the same Suvorov book twenty years earlier in an issue of JHR. I also discovered several pieces by CIA defector Victor Marchetti, a important figure for JFK assassination researchers, who had received little attention in the mainstream media. There were also articles on the fate of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, a topic almost entirely excluded from the mainstream media.

Casually browsing some of the archives, I was quite impressed with their quality, and since the archives were freely available for anyone to republish, I went ahead and incorporated them, making the millions of words of their Revisionist and Holocaust Denial content much more conveniently available to interested readers. The material is fully searchable, and also organized by Author, Topic, and Time Period, with a few sample links included below:

The Journal of Historical Review, 1980-2002 Issues

Author Archives:

Topic Archives:

So for those particularly interested in Holocaust Denial, well over a million words of such discussion may now be conveniently available, including works by many of the authors once so highly regarded by the early editors of Reason magazine.

Secretive Holocaust Denial

The steadily growing economic and political power of organized Jewish groups, backed by Hollywood image-making, eventually won the visible war and crushed the Holocaust Denial movement in the public arena, enforcing a particular historical narrative by criminal prosecutions across most of Europe and severe social and economic sanctions in America. But a stubborn underground resistance still exists, with its size being difficult to estimate.

Although my interest in the Holocaust had always been rather minimal, once the Internet came into being and my circle of friends and acquaintances greatly expanded, the topic would very occasionally come up. Over the years, a considerable number of seemingly rational people at one time or another privately let slip their extreme skepticism about various elements of the canonical Holocaust narrative, and such doubts seemed to represent merely the tip of the iceberg.

Every now and then someone in that category spoke a little too freely or became a target for retaliation on a different matter, and our media went into a feeding frenzy of Holocaust Denial accusations and counter-accusations.

For example, during the impeachment battles of the late 1990s, Clinton partisans believed that prominent liberal pundit Christopher Hitchens had betrayed the personal confidences of presidential aide Sidney Blumenthal, and journalist Edward Jay Epstein decided to retaliate in kind, widely circulating a memo to the media accusing Hitchens of secretly being a Holocaust Denier. He alleged that at a 1995 dinner gathering following a New Yorker anniversary celebration, Hitchens had drunk a little too much wine and began expounding to his table-mates that the Holocaust was simply a hoax. Epstein backed his claim by saying he had been so shocked at such statements that he had entered them into his personal diary. That telling detail and the fact that most of the other witnesses seemed suspiciously vague in their recollections persuaded me that Epstein was probably being truthful. A bitter feud between Hitchens and Epstein soon erupted.

In 2005 Hitchens denounced various opponents of Bush’s Iraq War as anti-Semites, and in retaliation Alexander Cockburn published a couple of Counterpunch columns resurrecting that 1999 controversy, which is when I first discovered it. As a regular reader of Counterpunch, I was intrigued and Googling around a bit, quickly located media accounts of Epstein’s explicit accusations. Numerous reports of the the incident still survive on the web, including one from the NY Daily News as well as a portion of an MSNBC piece, and although some of the more extensive ones have disappeared over the last dozen years, the media text I remember reading in 2005 has been preserved on the static HTML pages of several websites:

Epstein told MSNBC that Hitchens had misspoken himself on the Holocaust on Feb. 12, 1995 – in fact, practically four years ago – as the two of them, along with some other friends, were dining in New York.

Epstein was so shocked, he says, and considered Hitchens doubts so grave, that he went home and noted them in his diary!

According to the Epstein diary: “Once seated in a booth, and freely sipping his free red wine, Hitchens advanced a theory more revealing than anything going on at the Hudson theater. His thesis, to the shock of everyone at the table, was that the Holocaust was a fiction developed by a conspiracy of interests bent on ‘criminalizing the German Nation'”

“He explained that no evidence of German mass murder had ever been found – and what gruesome artifacts had been found had been fabricated after the event,” Epstein confided to his diary.

“What of the testimony of Nazi generals at Nuremberg about the death camps,” he asked.

Hitchens, according to the Epstein diary notation, explained “. . . without missing a beat, that such admissions were obtained under Anglo-American torture.” Epstein then asked, as noted in his diary: “‘But what happened to the Jews in Europe?’ Hitch shrugged and said, ‘Many were killed by local villagers when they ran away, others died natural deaths, and the remainder made it to Israel.”

 

After reading these interesting columns, I began noticing that Cockburn himself sometimes provided hints suggesting that his own personal opinion on the Holocaust might be somewhat heretical, including his cryptical remarks that huge hoaxes were actually much easier to create and maintain than most people realized.

Just a few months after his attack on Hitchens, Cockburn published a two-part article strongly arguing that Nobel Peace Prize Winner Elie Wiesel, the most famous of all Holocaust survivors, was simply a fraud. I had always been taught that Zyklon B was the deadly agent used by the Nazis to exterminate the Jews of Auschwitz and I had vaguely become aware that Holocaust Deniers absurdly claimed the compound had instead been employed as a delousing agent in the camps, aimed at preventing the spread of Typhus; but then the following year, I was shocked to discover in one of Cockburn’s columns that for decades the U.S. government had itself used Zyklon B as the primary delousing agent for immigrants entering at its Mexican border. I recall several other columns from the mid-2000s dancing around Holocaust issues, but I now seem unable to locate them within the Counterpunch archives.

My growing realization 15-odd years ago that substantial numbers of knowledgeable people appeared to be secret adherents of Holocaust Denial certainly reshaped my own unquestioning assumptions on that subject. The occasional newspaper account of a Holocaust Denier being discovered and then flayed and destroyed by the media easily explained why the public positions on that subject remained so unanimous. Being busy with other things, I don’t think I ever had a conversation with anyone on that controversial subject or even so much as an email exchange, but I did keep my eyes and ears open, and huge doubts had certainly entered my mind many years before I ever bothered reading my first book on the subject.

Meanwhile, the concurrent collapse of my belief in our official American Pravda narrative on so many other controversial topics played a major role as well. Once I realized to my dismay that I couldn’t believe a word of what our media and political leaders said about major events in the here and now, their credibility on controversial happenings so long ago and far away entirely disappeared. For these reasons, I had grown quite suspicious and held a very open mind on Holocaust matters as I eventually began reading books on both sides of the issue in the wake of the Reason controversy.

The Future of Holocaust Denial

For many years following the end of World War II very little seems to have been written about the momentous topic now known as the Holocaust. But from the 1960s onward, interest surged so enormously that many thousands or even tens of thousands of volumes on that once-ignored event have been produced. Therefore, the fifteen or twenty books that I have personally read is merely a sliver of that total.

I have invested only a few weeks of reading and research in studying this large and complex subject, and my knowledge is obviously dwarfed by that of the considerable number of individuals who have devoted many years or decades of their lives to such activity. For these reasons, the analysis I have presented above must surely contain numerous gaping errors that others could easily correct. But sometimes a newcomer may notice things that deeply-involved professionals might normally miss, and may also better understand the perspectives of those who have likewise never paid much attention to the subject.

Any conclusions I have drawn are obviously preliminary ones, and the weight others should attach to these must absolutely reflect my strictly amateur status. However, as an outsider exploring this contentious topic I think it far more likely than not that the standard Holocaust narrative is at least substantially false, and quite possibly, almost entirely so.

Despite this situation, the powerful media focus in support of the Holocaust over the last few decades has elevated it to a central position in Western culture. I wouldn’t be surprised if it currently occupies a larger place in the minds of most ordinary folk than does the Second World War that encompassed it, and therefore possesses greater apparent reality.

However, some forms of shared beliefs may be a mile wide but an inch deep, and the casual assumptions of individuals who have never actually investigated a given subject may rapidly change. Also, the popular strength of doctrines that have long been maintained in place by severe social and economic sanctions, often coupled by criminal ones, may possibly be much weaker than anyone realizes.

Until thirty years ago, Communist rule over the USSR and its Warsaw Pact allies seemed absolutely permanent and unshakeable, but the roots of that belief had totally rotted away, leaving behind nothing more than a hollow facade. Then one day, a gust of wind came along, and the entire gigantic structure collapsed. I wouldn’t be surprised if our current Holocaust narrative eventually suffers that same fate, perhaps with unfortunate consequences for those too closely associated with having maintained it.

Related Readings:

 
The American Pravda Series
Hide 2327 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Anonymous[679] • Disclaimer says:

    I had lamented the absence of an American Pravda column on the past couple Mondays, as it has become a treasured little pleasure of mine to read through a new one on my Monday commute. Yet seeing that a new one of considerable length and dealing with a very important issue has been published certainly lightens my day, even before I’ve read it. Keep up the great work, Mr. Unz!

  2. ‘…Lipstadt convincingly demonstrates that very few Americans seem to have believed in the reality of the Holocaust during the Second World War itself, despite considerable efforts by agitated Jewish activists to persuade them…’

    A bit of what is now ancient history becomes relevant here. Forty-fifty years before the Second World War, Jews had started retailing what turned out to be grossly exaggerated accounts of their sufferings in Russian pogroms. Anything from one or two to perhaps a score of deaths became hundreds, and innuimerable utterly fictitious atrocity tales were reported as fact.

    Eventually, of course, the exaggeration became obvious. However, it was repeated at the time of the Russian Civil War. Once again, vast death tolls from pogroms, etc. Yet again, that the tales were a mixture of exaggeration and outright fabrication eventually became obvious.

    Hence, when reports of massive Nazi death camps started coming out of Eastern Europe a generation later, they were understandably greeted with skepticism — the more so as the First World War had also seen vast quantities of spurious German atrocity stories. For example, there was some ridiculous tale about the Germans killing Belgians and turning their bodies into soap or something — in camps, no less.

    People were skeptical about the camps for good reason. These sort of lies had been being produced — and subsequently shown to be lies — for a good sixty years preceding the Second World War. No doubt the Germans were being beastly to the Jews — but actually killing them by the million? That elicited a collective raised eyebrow.

  3. Rational says:

    HOLOCAUST IS A FANTASY…..

    Thanks for the excellent article, Sir. You make many great points. Psychologically……

    Holocaust means to burn the whole animal alive. It is barbecuing a whole animal live.

    Holo = whole.

    Caust = burn.

    So who loves Holocaust?

    Yahweh.

    He demand quarbanot, i.e. sacrifice, as the ultimate act of love and devotion to him, like Avram tried to kill his own son as a sacrifice to Yahweh.

    The whole of Torah is about quarbanot, and Yahweh loves the smell of burning flesh—quarbanot. This phrase appears over and over in the Torah.

    That was the whole purpose of the Jewish temple—quarbanot. That is what the temple priests demanded—quarbanot. That is the biggest mitzvah–quarbanot.

    The holiest quarbanot is of the whole live animal, i.e. holocaust.

    The deepest Jewish fantasy is to become holy, to become one with Yahweh, to become his quarbanot, his holocaust and to become holy, as his chosen one.

    • Replies: @corstopitum
    , @caveman
  4. Wally says:

    The fraud is coming to an end.

    There is simply no proof to sustain the holocaust’ narrative, none.

    The claims defy laws of science, logic & rational thinking. IOW, it is a hateful & destructive religion that has been very profitable for Jews in general and “that shitty little country” in particular.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. Only lies require laws against free speech & persecution of those who speak freely.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  5. Rational says:

    ADDENDUM ON KORBAN:

    Per Wikipedia article on Korban and its subtype, called Olah:

    The Hebrew noun olah (עֹלָה) occurs 289 times in the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible…………..It means “that which goes up [in smoke]”.[3]. Olah’s traditional name in English is “holocaust”,[3] and the word olah has traditionally been translated as “burnt offering.”[4][5][6] The term was translated as holocauston in the Septuagint. Today, some English Bible translations render the word as holocaust, and others translate it as “burnt offering”.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_offering_%28Judaism%29

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Eckbach
  6. phil says:

    Auschwitz has lost some of its luster, but the Holocaust establishment still stands by many of the longstanding narratives. Meanwhile, much attention has been shifted to Treblinka. Excavations at two of the other Reinhardt camps did not find much to substantiate claims of hundred of thousands of victims, and the early use of ground-based radar at Treblinka has not yielded very much either, BBC pronouncements notwithstanding.

    On the other hand, although Carlo Mattogno has produced several fascinating documents which point to many of the Jewish campers having been transited to destinations in Byelorussia, Ukraine, and the Baltics, there are more than 1.2 million people to be accounted for, and it is understandable that many onlookers are not persuaded by the Holocaust Revisionists. It would be helpful if Putin would do more to make Soviet-era archives available, but he is upholding the standard Holocaust narratives thus far.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @CalDre
  7. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    If only it were just ‘denial’ that were prohibited. In many places it’s verboten even to ask impertinent questions, and in some places all questions are deemed impertinent.

    “It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain opinions makes it impossible to earn a living. It is clear also that thought is not free if all the arguments on one side of a controversy are perpetually presented as attractively as possible, while the arguments on the other side can only be discovered by diligent search.”

    ― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Jett Rucker
  8. Here we go: Holocaust Denial.

    Don’t worry. Personally, I think the Holocaust occurred substantially as described, but if others want to argue differently, I don’t see it as heresy. I’m no more offended than if someone wants to argue the Japanese could have successfully invaded Hawaii. Not my opinion, but…

    I will point out that while he has flirted with outright Holocaust Denial in the past, David Irving has found and published on his website what he regards as irrefutable evidence that 2.5 million Jews were killed in the ‘Operation Reinhard’ camps alone. While he is skeptical about the importance of Auschwitz, I imagine he’d agree at least a million additional Jews were killed by the Einsatzgruppen in the East, died of starvation in the Warsaw Ghetto, etc, etc.

    So we’re at 3.5 million as a minimum figure — I’d go with at least 5 million myself. Obviously, the difference would have been very important to Jew #3,773,751 but as a moral matter, I don’t see the distinction. 3.5 million is substantially as awful as 5 million. Have 6 million if it’s important to you. No one will ever know with any great precision anyway. As far as I’m concerned, it’s like arguing about what proportion of Iran’s population the Mongols killed. Past a point, a definitive answer simply isn’t to be found, and it’s certainly not something that’s worth assaulting elderly men in the streets over.

    Actually, the only significant area of controversy I see is whether Hitler knew and approved. There’s no clear evidence. Irving argues he didn’t — I’d guess he did. That particular question could do with some dispassionate analysis.

    As to why not many paid attention to the Holocaust before 1961 — it’s bloody dull. Lining unresisting victims up and shooting them is objectively about as interesting and appealing a subject for study as the operations of a slaughterhouse. This actually is the worst effect of the whole Holocaust Industry phenomenon. Lately it seems that every text dealing with Germany in the Second World War feels obliged to spend half its pages recounting the tale of the Holocaust yet again, and it’s bloody dull.

    Finally, the unique horror escapes me. We are all individuals; what matters above all to us is that it is us being killed, not our precise relationship to our fellow victims. How it was somehow consolation to a Russian POW starving to death that he wasn’t being killed because he was Jewish, or solace to a four year old girl being baked alive in a cellar in Dresden that it wasn’t being done because she was Jewish totally escapes me.

    The Holocaust. It happened, it was wrong, and it’s dull.

  9. They say that in war truth is the first casualty. Unfortunately, multicultural societies like ours are always at war, n the MSM are the chief weapons.

  10. A few weeks back I opined that Ron was almost there and we could anytime expect “American Pravda the Holocaust and here we are

    Kaboom, the 50 megaton Tsar Bomba has exploded.

    However, as an outsider exploring this contentious topic I think it far more likely than not that the standard Holocaust narrative is at least substantially false, and quite possibly, almost entirely so.

    Welcome to the club Ron, I suspect that you were there a long time ago and have come out. It takes tremendous moral and physical courage to take this position and I salute you. As the Americans say to their military personnel – Thank you for your service.

    • Replies: @Jett Rucker
  11. Ron,

    Carlo Mattogno is probably the most distinguished of the Holocaust revisionist historians, he’s written tens of thousands of densely referenced pages spanning decades of work. He’s definitely worth archiving. It’s telling that the orthodox historians have completely ignored this brilliant hard working scholar, imagine that even the biblical authorities argued with Darwinian scholars when evolution started capturing the minds of scholars but not these Holocaust theologians.

    https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?author_id=5

    • Replies: @Paw
  12. Meimou says:

    Took me an hour to through but it was worth it. Wonderfully informative

    Reading about the persecutions of
    revisionist made me angry, but I take comfort in the fact the we have been winning the information war for some time; the number of dead j@ws being reduced, the number of gas Chambers being reduced, push back in the comment sections against the official narrative…

    The holocau$t ON is on it’s last legs.

    holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com

    OT

    The links in the article are a must read for any anti holocauster researcher . If you are using android you can save them by using clipper+.

    • Replies: @Anon
  13. My revisionist story,

    I was a babe in the woods whistling and strolling here when that cruel man SS-Obersturmbannführer Wally selected me for the special treatment, he shoved me into the Gas Chamber and gave me the Leuchter and Rudolf Germar Prussian Blue treatment till I was completely stained blue then he shoved me into a Carlo Mattogno designed special oven and gave me a savage roasting till my old world view of the Holocaust went up in flames. And now here I am. Over a period of 3 months from Jan-March 2018 the old me got Shoahed.

    BTW a big shoutout to Wally.

  14. For a forum discussion I once made a list of my books on the WWII persecutions of the jews, nearly forty books.
    So I just glanced through the article.

    What I do not see mentioned is that ‘holocaust denial’ already is propaganda, denial in criminal cases exists when the crime is obvious.
    The holocaust discussion exists because the crime is not obvious.

    What I’m unable to understand is why nobody takes the trouble, apparently, to read a few books on how the concentration camps functioned, I listened them often enough.
    The descriptions are the same; the camps had self management, as had the ghetto in Warsaw.
    This management fed itself very well, Rassinier estimates them of 25% of the inmates.
    Unless food came in food packets, as with Rassinier, death in about six months time.
    Poliakov describes the same for the Warsaw ghetto.

    I’m not taking the trouble to list the books again, I just mention the authors I know: Elie Wiesel, Rassinier, Poliakov, Burg, nom de plume for Ginsberg, Kogon.
    After WWII Rassinier was thrown out of the French socialist party, it of course was impossible that camp management consisting of socialists and communists had misbehaved on this scale.
    Burg describes the exclusively jewish camp E of the river Bug, near Brest Litovsk.
    As Poliakov describes for the ghettohow, Burg describeshow rich jews ate well in good restaurant, he does not mention jewish deaths through hunger, but he does mention hungry children at the door of the restaurant.

    One more thing, Stephen J Gould explains the terrible situation in Bergen Belsen by the allies blocking any transport in Germany since early 1945, fighter bombers destroying anything that moved.
    Forgot in which book camp commanders are mentioned, desperately trying to find food.
    Of course also Zyklon B for delousing was no longer available, Anne Frank died of typhoid.

    • Replies: @JoeFour
  15. What a momentous day, I still can’t believe that it happened, I am trembling with excitement, how I wish I could take the day off and go to my room and open up a 15 year single malt and post on this 50 megaton thread. What a singularly courageous man our host is? He’s detonated all the bridges with his community – there’s no going back after this never ever.

  16. Once again a well written and researched essay. Ron it will be hard to ever get the truth out because the Jewish Gangbanging of Society is in full force. They invented the Social Mob Government that now runs the opinions of the Main Stream Media which as you said is in total control of the Jews. What we are seeing is Tribalistic Control of Society. As soon as anyone disagrees with anything the Social Mob of Facebook, Twitter and the rest of the clowns kick into gear. This is especially appealing to Blacks and other minorities who wish to riot, take down statues, and burn things. This isn’t much different to the way things work in Africa where for instance there are over 100 different Tribes fighting for control in places like Uganda. There is no time for reason or discussion. The Jews just kick these people into action. In Ferguson Michael Brown never had his hands up and tried to take the gun of the police officer. It doesn’t matter. These actors aren’t interested in truth or facts they demand some Cosmic Justice. The MSM during these riots just kept pouring more gasoline on the fire with lies and fake reports. When the Justice Dept. investigation by Obama’s Eric Holder was released no one cared about the truth the MSM went on to their next plan of attack. You cannot have a civilization with this type of mentality and that’s why we are doomed.

    Much of the Social Mob Movement in the US is funded by Soros and friends. Of course he is never criticized in the MSM because he is Jewish and that would be antisemitic. On the other side the so called Repubs have been bought out by Sheldon Anderson, the Zionist Jew who is a big supporter of the Holocaust Hoax and Israel’s wars with the US funding most of them. It seems hopeless because they have control of everything world wide and the view of everything is first filtered through a Jewish Lens before anyone sees it.

    Here are some interesting reads in line with the history that are seldom read:

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2013/the-sexual-decadence-of-weimar-germany/

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/torture-and-testicle-crushing-at-nuremberg/

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/german-victims-how-the-allied-victors-of-wwii-tortured-and-killed-their-german-prisoners-part-1-of-2/

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/german-victims-how-the-allied-victors-of-wwii-tortured-and-killed-their-german-prisoners-of-war-part-2-of-2/

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2013/the-liberation-of-the-death-camps/

  17. Polymath says:

    It seems like by far the best way to go about this is to estimate the pre-and post-war Jewish populations by all the usual methods historians and economists have tried. What, in your opinion, are the best attempts to do this?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Occams
  18. utu says:

    I always thought that the reason Raul Hilberg’s book was not too popular (I did not know he had difficulty in publishing it.) was because it showed a very ugly picture of cooperation of Judenrats and Jewish police with Germans. Hannah Arendt had access to Hilberg’s book manuscript (which she did not acknowledge) and used it in her Einstein in Jerusalem (which was initially serialized by New Yorker) highlighting Jewish cooperation and passivity. I would not be surprised if both her Einstein in Jerusalem and Hilberg’s The Destruction of the European Jews were still not translated into Hebrew.

    Kapo (2000) is an Israeli documentary film about the Jewish kapos who collaborated with the Nazis in the concentration camps during World War II.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo_(2000_film)
    The responses to the film were mixed, among Jewish and non-Jewish audiences alike. At a screening before a Jewish audience in Munich, Setton said that the younger members of the audience were pleased that someone had dared to broach the subject, while older audience members were outraged.[2] Only a censored version of the film was aired on German television in fear of a hostile reaction by the viewing audience. In France, opposition to the film was so severe that La 25e Heure, the show on which it was screened, was taken off the air.

    I wonder if the film was shown in Israel.

  19. [In] General Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe (New York: Doubleday [Country Life Press], 1948), Winston Churchill’s The Second World War (London: Cassell, 6 vols., 1948-1954), and the Mémoires de guerre of General de Gaulle (Paris: Plon, 3 vols., 1954-1959). …. no mention either of Nazi “gas chambers,” a “genocide” of the Jews, or of “six million” Jewish victims of the war.

    This is a blatant lie by Faurrisson. Churchill in vol 6, p 597 (appendix C):

    Prime Minister to Foreign Secretary 11 July 44

    There is no doubt that this [persecution of Jews in Hungary and
    their expulsion from enemy territory] is probably the greatest and
    most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world,

    and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised
    men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of
    Europe. It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall
    into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by
    carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death
    after their associa-
    tion with the murders has been proved.

    I cannot therefore feel that this is the kind of ordinary case which is
    put through the Protecting Power, as, for instance, the lack of feeding
    or sanitary conditions in some particular prisoners’ camp
    . There should
    therefore, in my opinion, be no negotiations of any kind on this
    subject. Declarations should be made in public, so that everyone
    connected with it will be hunted down and put to death.

    That is, dead Hungarian Jews in the German camps have fallen to “scientific machinery” used by “nominally civilized men in the name of a great State”, and not simply to poor “conditions in some particular prisoners’ camp”. The latter is the usual Holocaust revisionists’ explanation and Churchill is totally rejecting it in a letter written in July 1944 before the word “holocaust” had entered the lexicon. Instead, Churchill describes (and assumes as known to his Foreign Minister) the Germans as murdering the Hungarian Jews with scientific technology in what he calls the greatest crime of human history, with any involvement to be punished by death. Obviously his words also imply a massive scale to the murder by scientific machinery, of a similar order of magnitude to the Hungarian Jewish population. Which again happens to match the standard un-revised account.
    Incidentally, the camp used (according to the standard account) for scientifically murdering the Hungarian Jews was Auschwitz.

    https://archive.org/details/WinstonChurchillTheSecondWorldWarTriumphAndTragedyVolume6

    Eisenhower’s memoir barely mentions anything about Jews. You would not learn from his book, or Churchills’, or de Gaulle’s that Kristallnacht, boycotts, and Nuremberg laws had ever existed in Nazi Germany, or that Hitler had any negative thoughts about Jews. Nevertheless those things are extremely well documented and not disputed by historical revisionists (anti-historians). That a personal political memoir of the war doesn’t mention these events is more of an indicator that the author assumes that the reader is already familiar with them, than that they never occurred or are unimportant.

    Eisenhower in fact specifically anticipated Holocaust revisionism and made a point of being personally photographed at German concentration camps in front of piles of dead prisoners, to bear witness and (in his words) help pre-empt the possibility that some people would later dismiss the massacres as “mere propaganda”. He also demanded that photographs and films be made at the camps and witness testimony be taken, for the same reason. This, too, is fairly well known and documented enough to never have been a subject of any historical revisionism. Faurrison chose to be a weasel and say that Eisenhower, who made a point of documenting the Holocaust in 1945, suddenly maintained a suspicious silence on the matter in 1948. The more honest interpretation is that the army films of the camps that he himself had commissioned, and newspaper articles by reporters he had had invited into the camps, were in such wide circulation in the year or two after the German surrender that Eisenhower treated the basic facts of extermination camps as already known to the public. He was writing a memoir, not a textbook.

    Crusade in Europe http://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.208955

    de Gaulle doesn’t mention Jews at all, not because nothing happened to them, but because the Vichy collaboration made the whole subject radioactive in France for decades after the war. Those are not points in dispute by revisionists, and Faurisson knew perfectly well that the lack of Jewish references in de Gaulle’s book has no bearing on any historical questions.

    This excerpt is the first I have read anything by Faurrisson, but the level of dishonesty he packed into a few sentences is entirely consistent with the appraisal of his credibility made at the time by everyone except his lone defender, Chomsky.

  20. Renoman says:

    Waaaaay tooooo looong!

    • Disagree: for-the-record
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Meimou
    , @Alden
  21. Brabantian says: • Website

    From the website of Ron Unz’s fellow rebel Jew, Henry Makow in Canada – The story of Josef Ginsburg aka ‘Joseph G Burg’ (1908-90), the German-speaking Jew who:

    Had his books burned (!) repeatedly over many years by post-war, modern Germany, after he dared to question the official Shoah / Holocaust narrative

    A rabbi’s son who became a fervent Communist … Ginsburg joined advancing Soviet troops as part of official Soviet teams entering into & inspecting Nazi camps in Poland such as Auschwitz, Birkenau, Majdanek, Treblinka, & Sobibor, known today as the ‘death camps’

    As Ginsburg visited Auschwitz in 1945 & spoke to hundreds of surviving inmates, anti-Nazi Jew Ginsburg “formed the opinion that there were no ‘extermination’ camps at all, that gas chambers had never existed & that there had been no plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe.” Ginsburg said he could find no gas chambers which were not de-lousing stations, nor witnesses who had seen any

    Technically himself a ‘Holocaust survivor’, Ginsburg wrote books saying the ‘Holocaust’ was a fraud … West Germany’s government continually attacked Ginsburg, confiscating & burning 7 of Ginsburg’s 13 major books — the West German regime ice-cold to the irony of burning a Jew’s books over a much longer period than Nazis themselves ever did.

    Josef Ginsburg [gave] striking testimony at a Canadian ‘Holocaust denial’ trial of his friend Ernst Zündel … the Canadian crown prosecution refused to cross-examine him:
    http://www.zundelsite.org/archive/harwood/dsmrd/dsmrd24burg.html

    Ginsburg’s story is in process of being internet-scrubbed, close to being effectively ‘erased’ … the response to this Jewish writer & WW2 survivor was to burn his books & near-erase him from media & now the internet.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  22. Hilberg challenged the “4 million at Auschwitz” in his first edition. Another matter: Hannah Arendt’s motivation for blocking the publication of Hilberg’s work was not his conclusion of the German-lead destruction of European Jews, but rather his conclusion that Jews played an important role in the destruction.

    FWIW, Hilberg’s Memoirs of a Holocaust Historian discuss Dawidowicz and company in much negative detail.

    Hilberg was forced to abide by political correctness for the third (Yale) edition of his major work, where he devoted four pages of the US government’s standard version of Rwanda. Said propaganda was largely debunked by the defense at the various trials and appeals at Arusha, especially Military II. The US governmental psuedo-historical outfits e.g. Human Rights Watch continues to peddle the party line.

  23. Another matter. With regards to your lumping Hilberg with Dawidowicz and company, and lumping Finkelstein with Hilberg’s “Holocaust Denial” opponents, could you comment on Finkelstein and Birn’s A Nation On Trial?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  24. Yevardian says:
    @utu

    Israelis are actually far more tolerant of such opinions and/or portrayals than the diaspora, or indeed probably most Western Europeans.

  25. @academic gossip

    Unz says:

    no mention either of Nazi “gas chambers,” a “genocide” of the Jews, or of “six million” Jewish victims of the war

    You say:

    This is a blatant lie

    Churchill’s letter:

    the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world

    Not a mention of “gas chambers”, “genocide”, or “six million”.

    it has been done by scientific machinery

    Not a mention of “gas chambers”, “genocide”, or “six million”.

    carrying out the butcheries

    Not a mention of “gas chambers”, “genocide”, or “six million”.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  26. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Renoman

    Did you read it? If not, then how would you know?

  27. Pointless discussion. There is level of exaggeration on both sides.
    I only want to point out one fact.
    The treatment of internees was relatively best in Germany ad was gradually worse depending on increased distance from Germany.

  28. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    I will point out that while he has flirted with outright Holocaust Denial in the past, David Irving has found and published on his website what he regards as irrefutable evidence that 2.5 million Jews were killed in the ‘Operation Reinhard’ camps alone.

    Link? None, as you won’t find any to back up your assertions.

    I purchased and read Mr. Irvings/ “Hitler’s War,” a magnificent 838 pages of that time–with over 100 pages of notes and sources–that goes into intimate detail about WWII. There is NO mention of Operation Reinhard, or ‘Aktion Reinhard’ in German.

    I checked Mr. Irving’s site and found “Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard.” Did some research at that link–below–but couldn’t find any definitive figures like you claim.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Belzec/Belzec%20etc.pdf

    And the ‘Final Solution’ phrase was warped by the holocaust junkies as the real term is TERRITORIAL Final Solution. Hitler did NOT want to mass-murder Juden, just round them up and move them to the new land conquered from Russia. Another ‘Pale of the Settlement,’ if you will.

    There are so many LIES told about the holocaust, how can anyone seriously believe the 6 million figure?
    Lies like the Nazi masturbation machine that literally milked Jew males to death. Or the giant electrical chair that could hold and electrocute 10,000 Juden at once?
    Or the secret Buck Rogers like invention, a space ray that vaporized 20,000 Auschwitz Jews all at once.
    Or the now disproved soap made from Jew ashes/fat. Or the human skin lamp shades. Or the giant steam chambers used to cook Jews to death. Another LIE.

    Shall I go on? I certainly can, but for brevity’s sake, I’ll stop with the LIES here.

    Tell me Mr. Wright, what made the Nazis help over 60,000 of German Jews move to Palestine, from 1933-42, even helping them set up industries, business and living quarters, which the Germans had to quit in 1942, since the war on the Eastern Front was going badly and the Germans needed those assets to help with the war?
    It was called “The Transfer Agreement” and it’s what got former London Mayor Livingstone in trouble with the holocaust fanatics because he mentioned a bit of truth from that period.

    Since the holocaust is listed as being from 1942-45, we’re supposed to believe that literally, overnight, the Germans went from helping Jews move to their nation of choice to pushing them in gas chambers?

    Sorry, but like someone already said, “Truth needs no defense; truth can stand on its own.”
    Evidently not in at least 17 European nations, where it is VERBOTEN to ask questions about that time.
    Even asking a sensible question like, “Why did the Auschwitz sign declaring that four million were killed here get changed to a little over 1 million, and that included Gypsies, criminal, political dissidents, Commies etc. Ask that and risk getting arrested, tried, convicted and heavily fined while you sit in prison for five years.
    Ditto for the numbers at Majdanek, which dropped from around 600,000 to around 70,000, but don’t ask why, unless you want to go to prison.

    When someone tells that many lies and then gets horrified when people don’t believe their BS, it’s their own fault for telling such whoppers to begin with.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute, Druid
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Stan d Mute
  29. @Brabantian

    Burg, Ginsberg, feared for his life.
    The last pages of J.G. Burg, Schuld und Schicksal, Europas Juden zwischen Henkern und Heuchlern, München, 1962 state that in case of his death a Swiss solicitor would automatically publish documents in the possession of the solicitor.

    • Replies: @Alden
  30. Anonymous [AKA "brander"] says:

    I would like to raise attention to David Cole, the Jewish Revisionist of http://www.takimag.com

    He has written a book about his experience as a Jewish holocaust revisionist, “Republican Party Animal”

    • Replies: @conatus
  31. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Scientific ?
    The description of the asserted gas chambers, and how they functioned, show something far from scientific, on the contrary, primitive.
    This is one of the reasons these gas chambers for humans are improbable, the highly efficiënt Germans not devising an efficiënt killing and cremation process.
    Any chicken slaughter factory is more scientific.

    • Replies: @Anon
  32. dearieme says:

    “aside from Milch, Hitler’s military contained over a dozen half-Jewish generals and admirals and another dozen quarter-Jews of that same high rank, plus a total of roughly 150,000 additional half- or quarter-Jewish soldiers”: one explanation immediately suggests itself. (Whether it is anywhere near the mark I have no idea.)

    Perhaps many Germans were not much worried about assimilated German Jews, especially if they were seen as valuable to the military and if unconnected to Bolshevism. Perhaps German hatred was directed mainly at East European Jews.

    Then again, maybe views simply differed among the Germans.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Wally
  33. Bucky says:

    While a lot of it likely is exaggerated, especially the part about Germany using scarce resources to perpetuate the killings while they were losing the war, saying that “only” 1.5 million were killed vs 3.5 million is splitting hairs.

    Given widespread scapegoating occurring before the war, and how Hitler was the leader, it only makes sense that some sort of attitude would take a hold among the bureaucracy in Germany. Though the vast majority likely were simply shot. Because if the goal is extermination of Jews, the most direct way to that goal is shooting, not constructing a camp.

    But if the real number is say, 2 million, that is still a tragedy.

  34. This should be fun. Pass the popcorn.

  35. Both of these simple facts have been widely accepted in America throughout my entire lifetime. But combine them together with the relatively tiny size of worldwide Jewry, around 16 million prior to World War II, and the inescapable conclusion is that in per capita terms Jews were the greatest mass-murderers of the twentieth century, holding that unfortunate distinction by an enormous margin and with no other nationality coming even remotely close. And yet, by the astonishing alchemy of Hollywood, the greatest killers of the last one hundred years have somehow been transmuted into being seen as the greatest victims, a transformation so seemingly implausible that future generations will surely be left gasping in awe.

    I do hope nothing happens to you.

  36. Svigor says:

    Mark Ames, Mark Ames…that name seems familiar. Ohhh, right, now I remember; Ames is one of the moral cretins who managed to run Russia’s most popular “edgy,” “independent,” English-language paper in post-Soviet Russia without mentioning the Jewishness of the Russian oligarchs. Or without much mentioning the Jewish “Russian” oligarchs at all.

    Yeah, I remember those guys.

    The idea of them calling anyone out for moral turpitude is laughable. Anyone who takes that shit seriously never read The Exile.

  37. Anonymous [AKA "Anon.Benefactor"] says:

    Never forget: ‘One may not ask oneself whether such mass murder was technically possible. It was technically possible because it happened.’ (Le Monde, 21 February 1979, 34 French historians)

  38. @Colin Wright

    Actually, the only significant area of controversy I see is whether Hitler knew and approved. There’s no clear evidence. Irving argues he didn’t — I’d guess he did. That particular question could do with some dispassionate analysis.

    Of course he did. Rebirth through ordeal & fire was the center of his world-view, Jews being considered to be something like pestilence, or rats who destroy high culture through their intrinsic & unalterable pervy rottenness.

    Hitler’s apologists do him disservice by portraying him as some uninformed hick. He was not a great leader comparable to Alexander, Caesar or Napoleon (these guys were almost superhuman), but he remains one of 3-4 most important 20th C political figures (Lenin, Stalin, Mao could be competitors, although I would choose Lenin over the rest).

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @peterAUS
    , @Svigor
  39. phil says:
    @Colin Wright

    Irving’s conclusion was based on the Korherr Report and the German term for “special treatment” of the Jews. The report concerned what was claimed to be an enormous reduction in the Jewish population in “Europe.” It included mention of the more than 1.2 million Jews who had been sent to the Reinhardt camps in what had been Eastern Poland. Sometimes “special treatment” (in German) did indeed refer to killing.

    However, Carlo Mattogno in the Holocaust Handbooks (esp. SOBIBOR) has argued that the “special treatment” involved rounding up and sending Jews to what were actually transit camps. The camps were not outfitted with any crematoria, whereas other camps which no one regarded as “death camps” did have them–death from disease and other natural causes being very substantial. Many Jews were then deported into the western part of the USSR, which the German military had occupied.

    Korherr refers to the camps as having been “evacuation stations” and in Section X he refers to the “Eastern Territories” (east of Poland) as being counted by him as “off-going,” which meant they were no longer being considered as part of “Europe.” So it’s possible that Irving’s interpretation is wrong and that what you refer to as the minimum figure for the Holocaust may be well under 1 million. Rather than being killed, the deported Jews were no longer “Europeans.”

  40. Very long, but well worth the effort. Ron Unz’s writings are the marks of a highly disciplined, superb mind and his work on historical revisionism is truly remarkable for its far reach into the relevant documents, its measured, dispassionate approach, and the courage to challenge an orthodoxy of vast power and unlimited resources. This piece, perhaps, more than any of his others, reinforces his broader “American Pravda” thesis that our major cultural institutions (media, entertainment industry, schools and universities) and government flourish are ruthless instruments of propaganda.

    Also, a recent outing of yet another fake holocaust survivor, this one a Spaniard, Enric Marco, from Catalonia detailed in a recently published book, The Impostor, by Javier Cercus reviewed by the famous Peruvian novelist, Mario Vargas Llosa in El Pais (Spanish) and the Wall Street Journal. https://elpais.com/elpais/2014/12/11/opinion/1418316858_779129.html
    Marco (now in his 90s), seems to be a sort of Iberian Elie Wiesel, outed a short while ago after a decade long, high-profile career of peddling his fictitious history, including a stint in Mauthausen, in prestigious venues.

    Typically, the historian who outed him has taken abuse.

  41. Alden says:

    Here’s a book I read from the UCLA library. I couldn’t find it on amazon. Its probably in other college libraries and since it was published in translation in the US there must be a copy in the Library of Congress. Library of Congress will make and send copies of books if requested

    Author Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandel. Book title From the Depths in English Min haihzeitzar in Hebrew. The Hebrew word means depths of despair.

    He was the civil and religious leader of a large Jewish community in Slovakia and Hungary that was destroyed during the war. He claims the destruction was a joint effort by the Zionist communists and Germans

    He got through the war and ended up in the US. First wife and children died in Auschwitz

    His book claims that the Zionist and communist Jews worked with the Germans to kidnap children and teens to convert them to communism and Zionism and send them to Palestine to create Israel and the new Zionist socialist communist Jewish people.

    He claims the communist Zionist Jews helped the Germans to kill off the religious and socially and economically conservative Jews.

    Weissmandel succeeded in getting some of his people to Russia. The Russians placed them and other Jewish refugees on the collective farms. That was fine.

    But the Zionists were in charge of the Jews on the farms and immediately separated the kids and teens from the parents and Rabbis. The kids were indoctrinated in communism and Zionism and sent through the smuggling routes to Palestine to be the new Zionist Jews.

    Weissmandel touches a bit in the Zionist Jews the Germans put in charge of the ghettoes as well. His thesis is that the destruction of European Jews was a conspiracy between the communist Zionists and the Germans with the Zionists as enthusiastic as the Germans.

    Motive of the zionists; get rid of the religious and bourgeois capitalist nuclear family good table manners comfortable home marriage and children homemaker wife provider husband type of Jews. And create the New Jew Zionist socialist working mothers kids raised in kibbutz childcare centers women in the military in combat free love as it was called then.

    The good Rabbi was very bitter about it all.

    It’s quite a book. If it’s in the UCLA library it must be in the Stanford and other college libraries

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Alden
  42. Alden says:
    @academic gossip

    It’s pretty well known that Eisenhower decided to film, take photos and make a visual record of the camps as soon as he saw them.

  43. Two of the best books on the subject, not mentioned here and both now banned by Amazon:

    The Great Holocaust Trial (2010 Edition) by Michael Hoffman
    Covers the 1985 trial and subsequent re-prosecution of Ernst Zündel in Canada, which pitted Faurisson, Butz, Leuchter, Irving, and Zündel himself, against the most famous eyewitness survivers, as well as defenders of holocaust orthodoxy such as Raul Hilberg.

    Despite unfair limitations imposed by pro-prosecution judges on the defense team, Zündel’s defense team destroyed the traditional narrative in two separate trials. The prosecution eyewitnesses all fell apart on cross-examination, and Hilberg was forced to admit that he not only relied on a single untrustworthy document for his account on Auschwitz, but that he concealed the problems in his source material from his audience (see the Kurt Gerstein affidavit). Zündel was convicted anyway, mostly due to the judges instructing jurors how to vote on the issue of whether the Holocaust happened. But both convictions in Canada were ultimately reversed on appeal.

    This book is critical, because it is a first hand account of the only instances in which the claims of the pro-Holocaust theorists have ever been subject to cross-examination in court. All future kangaroo court judges avoided this embarrassment in the future by taking “judicial notice” that the Holocaust happened.

    Debating the Holocaust: A New Look at Both Sides by Thomas Dalton
    A must-read intro, which summarizes the most compelling arguments for and against the Holocaust narrative. The author claims to have begun his research favorable to the orthodoxy, but ended clearly in the revisionist camp.

    • Replies: @J. Masterson
  44. Meimou says:
    @Colin Wright

    As to why not many paid attention to the Holocaust before 1961 — it’s bloody dull

    A weak explanation. The most likely explanation is that the OS is a lie, it doesn’t help you that Eisenhower and Churchill didn’t mention it in their books.

    Why the Allies didn’t use it as wartime propaganda?

    How do you keep the murder of millions s secret anyway?

    If it was so “dull” why did the OS get more important over time?

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    , @Colin Wright
  45. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:

    I perused this article and will go back to read it more slowly. But damn, Ron Unz has totally shattered my confidence in believing any of the official narrative. My knowledge of history is wholly inadequate and I always try to rectify this. But now I hesitate to undertake any historical self-education for fear I might be doing damage (garbage in).

    When I read reviews on Amazon regarding math books, I always cringe and run away when I read a reviewer mention that a book contains many errors. I don’t have confidence in my ability to spot these errors, especially in a subject new to me, and fear I might be vitiated for life by “knowing” wrong information. And worse, being wrong with confidence.

    It’s funny, but prior to the rise of Trump and the complete and jaw-dropping exposure of the blatant lies and fabrication of news and the official narrative, I wonder if I would’ve been receptive to Unz’s American Pravda pieces. Mostly likely not. I think I’d dismiss them outright in a Lipstadtian “come on”.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  46. @utu

    and used it in her Einstein in Jerusalem

    [Freudian?] slip?

    • Replies: @utu
  47. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    And the last words of the article are “the numbers are unbelievable”!

  48. @Colin Wright

    “David Irving has found and published on his website what he regards as irrefutable evidence that 2.5 million Jews were killed in the ‘Operation Reinhard’ camps alone.”

    If I’m wrong, please link to the Irvin site explaining this, but from my understanding, his “irrefutable evidence” is a single decoded telegram that he interprets to describe fatalities at the Reinhard camps.

    Others who translated this document say it only describes arrivals at the camps, not necessarily deaths.

    I think Irving damn well knows the difference, but after 20 years of abuse, imprisonment and terrorism, he’s a broken man at this point. Poor chap.

  49. @Johan Meyer

    What nation on trial, the jewish or the German ?
    Anyone can know that GB wanted WWI, it could not compete economically with the Germany united in 1870 by the French attack.
    On top of that, GB feared German economic expansion to the SE, the Berlin Bagdad railway, that would have given Germany access to the Mosul oil fields, on top of that GB feared export from Basra of German products to India.
    The line was to be extended to Basra.
    Versailles was designed to keep Germany weak forever.
    At the time it was seen as a jewish conference, Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter for example were there.
    Wilson was an important man there, Morgenthau had financed his election.
    Alas for GB, Versailles was so stupid that Germany came into such misery and poverty that it democratically elected Hitler, who took full power.
    This full power enabled Schacht to resurrect Germany economically in just three years.
    Thus, a new war, as Churchill said ‘the whole period 1914 1945 can best be seen as one long war’.
    Jews were important in the second war against Germany, the jewish declaration of war in 1933.
    As to Hitler wanting to deminish jewish influence in Germany, see the statistics in
    Ismar Schorsch, ‘Jewish Reactions to German Anti-Semitism, 1870 – 1914’, New York 1972

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  50. @Anonymous

    24 French ‘intellectuals’.
    Very stupid people, the assertion that it happened used as an ‘argument’ that thus it was technically possible.

  51. Meimou says:
    @academic gossip

    Eisenhower in fact specifically anticipated Holocaust revisionism and made a point of being personally photographed at German concentration camps in front of piles of dead prisoners, to bear witness and (in his words) help pre-empt the possibility that some people would later dismiss the massacres as “mere propaganda”.

    Revisionist don’t refute that prisoners died in large numbers. How did the piles of dead prisoner die?

    He also demanded that photographs and films be made at the camps and witness testimony be taken, for the same reason. This, too, is fairly well known and documented enough to never have been a subject of any historical revisionism

    No one refutes the existence of camps, so you don’t get a point for bringing it upWhat was the nature of this witness testimony? Does it substantiate genocide?

    Stop knocking down strawman.

  52. Meimou says:
    @Renoman

    Waaaaay to short an attention span!

  53. @Alden

    Indeed, of the misery the allies, especially the USA, had caused: Stephen Jay Gould in:
    Wim Kayzer, ‘Een Schitterend Ongeluk, Wim Kayzer ontmoet Oliver Sacks, Stephen Jay Gould, Stephen Toulmin, Daniel C. Dennett, Rupert Sheldrake en Freeman Dyson’, 1993 Amsterdam

    • Replies: @Alden
  54. DFH says:
    @Svigor

    Ames is one of the moral cretins who managed to run Russia’s most popular “edgy,” “independent,” English-language paper in post-Soviet Russia without mentioning the Jewishness of the Russian oligarchs. Or without much mentioning the Jewish “Russian” oligarchs at all.

    But they did mention their Jewishness many times, including a piece with little profiles of the oligarchs called ‘The Jews; Where are they now?’. This even made its way (through plagiarism) into the Guardian.

    http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8575&IBLOCK_ID=35

  55. Anonymous[142] • Disclaimer says:

    Holocaust denial is a red-herring, used by the Zios to whatever advantage it might add to any given scenario.

    World War II is over. The disposition of individuals in several concentration/detainment camps in the 1940s is entirely, dismissively irrelevant. In 2018, it makes absolutely no difference at all, and discussion of it, in any form, has one and only one effect: to aid and protect Zionist dominance of world economy and world political conditions.

    • Replies: @Alden
  56. @Colin Wright

    Lipstadt knows how to write.
    When I had read
    Deborah Lipstadt, ‘Denying the holocaust’, 1993, New York
    now some fifteen years ago, when I still believed mainstream history, I was upset about those denying this historical truth.
    I now call Lipstadt Lyingstadt, her book is just lies and accusations, without any factual basis.
    A similar book is
    Brigitte Hammann, ‘Hitler’s Vienna, A Dictator’s Apprenticeship’, Oxford New York, 1999

  57. Hans says:

    Here’s a link to the Charlie Hebdo (((double standard))) firing of Sine: I’m not Charlie . . . I’m Maurice Sinet, fired by Charlie for anti-semitism – https://shareverything.com/2015/01/14/im-not-charlie-im-maurice-sine-fired-by-charlie-for-anti-semitism/

    Great and essential work Mr. Unz! Bravo!

    • Replies: @Hrw-500
  58. @Colin Wright

    I will point out that while he has flirted with outright Holocaust Denial in the past, David Irving has found and published on his website what he regards as irrefutable evidence that 2.5 million Jews were killed in the ‘Operation Reinhard’ camps alone.

    You refer, no doubt, to the so-called Hoefle telegram. By ‘found’ you unfortunately give the wrong impression that Irving discovered it himself. But how does he extrapolate from the 1.25 million sent to the camps (that’s minus the 25,000 sent to Majdanek) to the end of 1942 to 2.5 million by the end of 1943? The revisionist position, as you know, is that these were transit camps. Irving, if he wished to argue in good faith, would have to have subjected the alleged methods of mass gassings and body disposal at the camps to the same scrutiny that he’d applied to Auschwitz.

  59. A few notes to this stimulating article….
    1. My father played good golf before WW2 at a moderately overweight 210 lbs. When released from German POW camp in 1945 he weighed about 115 lb. Easy to see why the Belsen and Buchenwald corpses and survivors looked as they did. Easy to see too why Auschwicz guards wouldn’t have to kill many of the inmates they induced to leave when whatever deadly activities previously practised had been prudently abandoned.
    2. What happened at Wannsee conference? Crucial if not decisive.
    3. What were the before and after figures for Jews in the part of (western) Poland occupied by Germany from September 1939?
    4. What were the before and after figures for Hungarian Jews who seem to have been the biggest group of Jewish Auschwicz victims?
    5. Why did Jewish women and children have to be transported from France, Belgium and Holland?
    4. The big question you don’t define: what is the Holocaust story you are casting doubt on? Was there perhaps no plan with or without Hitler’s approval which covers the said transport of women and children? Granted the Einsatzgruppen *could* have been aimed mainly to kill enemies comprehensively with Jews naturally classed with Communists, and granted that the numbers of Jews actually killed were probably well under 6 million is there really a problem in believing that, if a Final Solution was agreed at Wannsee, extermination was agreed after other possible solutions had failed? After all “extermination” had been suggested for the Jews before, by anti-Dreyfusards in France and by Kaiser Wilhelm ll. And there are plenty of precedent uses in America.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @peterAUS
  60. Alden says:

    The Diary of Anne Frank was written by Meyer Levin, a prolific early and mid 20th century American author.

    Otto Frank went to New York and contracted with Levin to write the book based on Anne’s real diary for $50,000 Levin wrote the book. Frank didn’t pay him. Levin sued Frank. Levin used the copy of Anne’s real diary as proof that the published Levin book was very different from Anne’s diary.

    Levin won his case and was awarded the money owed. Frank never did pay him.

    There are always new translations and lost pages published to great publicity and angst.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Wally
  61. utu says:
    @for-the-record

    Must be but I do not know what it suppose to signify.

  62. Ron Unz, the greatest Athenian of our time. Thank you so much.

    Readers may like to know that if the 2012 documentary Auschwitz: The Surprising Hidden Truth is blocked for them on YouTube, it can be watched on the Internet Archive, here.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  63. @Anonymous

    The interesting thing about truth is that it is consistent.
    It was, maybe even this is changing, impossible to control any writing.
    Thus inconsistencies show what it true and what is not.
    But it takes a lot of time an effort to see through the lies.
    A few books do not suffice.

    An maybe interesting example is the assertion that Hess had never met the Scottish count to whom he was flying in May 1941, thus making his peace mission improbable, or a lunatic act;
    Yet Hess had breakfast with this count during the 1936 Berlin Olympic games:
    Robert Rhodes James, ‘CHIPS, The Diaries of Sir Henry Channon’, London 1967
    Even
    Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince and Stephen Prior, ‘Double standards, The Rudolf Hess cover-up’, London 2002 does not mention this meeting.

    Another example is the letter attributed to our late Prince Bernhard, written to Hitler, asking him te let him, Bernard, rule the Netherlands.
    There was considerable controvery if this letter was ever written.
    However, writing the letter is completely consistent with the last mentioned book, that concludes that Hess died in an unexplained flying boat accident in Scotland, in which also a brother of the British king was killed.
    Bernard dined with the brother the day before the accident.
    The flying boat is supposed to have been on its way to Stockholm, to declare peace between Germany and GB, Hitler stepping down, Hess replacing him.

    For those seeing conspiracies anywhere, it was an accident, the pilot in ascending from a Scottish lake where Hess came on board chose the wrong, higher valley.
    There was a body to many when the wreckage was examined.
    There never was an official explanation what the, for the time, huge flying boat was doing in starting from a small lake.
    The extra body, also never explained officially.
    The Hess at Nüremberg, and in Spandau, was not the real Hess, the USA prison doctor explained this is a book.
    Who he was, w’ll never know, I suppose.

  64. @Greg Bacon

    I find it very difficult to believe that any legislation in Europe could be so illiberal and so stupid as to make it an offence, let alone one for which the penalty might be imprisonment, to draw attention to the change in numbers said to be killed at Auschwicz. Would you please back up you assertions with sources/links and quotes.

    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
  65. @Greg Bacon

    Therein lies the immense value of Ron’s exhaustive effort here. It’s not a question of “did Jews suffer during WWII” – hell, everyone suffered. It’s debunking the propaganda that Jews are the most special people and most extraordinary victims in all human existence. What difference does it make if 6 million or 6 hundred thousand really? Or killed by firing squad or gas chamber? Both are better than the typhus and starvation that likely killed most of them. And Jews surely suffered no more than many German, French, and Eastern European Yeshuans.

    The greatest benefit of Ron’s work is showing (1) the Jews had agency and (2) we’ve all been fed a nonstop diet of lies about essentially everything (holocaust included) for our entire lives.

  66. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    7I think the expression “scientific” was picked up from Churchill’s communication with the Foreign Secretary. It is just the kind of expression a layman might have adopted as a shorthand way of making a distinction between using electricity or gas rather than shooting or hanging.

    In answer to your point about likely German methods you should consider how efficient it was to (allegedly) persuade people they were going to be cleansed/deloused so their resistance would not be roused, and then to drop poison on them from above. No need for higher level science or engineering.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  67. @Bucky

    You omit to notice that Germany’s labor shortage was made up for by slave or otherwise forced labor. If they were Jews who were lowest on the list for survival they could just be worked and starved to death.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
    , @bucky
  68. Anonymous [AKA "GaiusOptimus"] says:

    “…Surely no zealous theologian of the European Dark Ages would have reacted any differently…”

    Look up “summa” and Thomas Aquinas. You may change your mind.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  69. Che Guava says:

    My own sequence, and thanks to Mr. Unz for also noticing most.

    Being at a western university, where Mr. Irving (certainly far more deserving of an honorary doctorate than most holders of that empty title) was ‘no-platformed’ by a combination of the Zionist and Trotskyist students.

    I did not understand the reasons at the time, but knowing he was a military historian with a great reputation, the offense against freedom of expression really annoyed me.

    Saw a couple of TV documentaries that had info. from Leuchter and Gelmar, among others, in retrospect, think that was the main factor driving the wasp’s nest into hyperactivity, the simple fact that the narrative was being questioned on television.

    I read The Painted Bird, then later found out it was a total fake.

    Saw and later read Slaughterhouse 5, later found that Vonnegut, a direct witness of the Dresden atrocity, was essentially forced to write Mother Night as a mea culpa for it.

    Read a couple of the popular Holocaust porn novels from Israel, translated into English, thinking, oh, so sad, then noticing the small-print disclaimers ‘This is entirely a work of fiction.’

    As something of a student of military history, I was thinking ‘Why were the presumably logical military giving priority to transport for this, when they were having much more pressing needs?’ In the end, I was realising it was likely just not true.

    Am glad that you mention the magazine Marco Polo , I enjoyed it in general, though do not have a copy of the banned issue, unfortunately only saw it and briefly scanned at a book shop.

    The reaction, as you say, was crazy, that was the factor pushing me into absolute scepticism.

    Still makes me wonder what power the Holocaustians were using to close the mag., have people fired and resign.

    Perhaps the US embassy.

    Doubt that it was the Israeli, because the campaign of Israeli illegal workers for a ‘Holocaust’ museum in an outer Tokyo suburb abt. seven yrs. later collapsed when the govt. cracked down on Israeli illegal workers around that time. Nothing to do with the stupid museum project, just because they were doing illegal work and trading, including illegal drugs.

    It was nice to see the posters for their stupid museum project disappear at the time.

  70. nglaer says:
    @academic gossip

    Nice little bit of research and knowledge, needed and appreciated.

  71. @Colin Wright

    The story, Moishe, is not the hoax. The story is that we can tell the goyim what they are allowed and what they are not allowed to think. And they do as they are told, and make it the law.

  72. @Meimou

    The Western Allies did use the alleged gassing of Jews as propaganda during the last couple of years of the war and through until at least the end of the Nuremberg trials. A plausible theory as to why it was largely abandoned is that the Communist threat became paramount and, besides, West Germany had been completely pacified already.

    The re-birth of the Holocaust as a cultural phenomenon didn’t happen in 1961; it kicked off in the late 1960s. Novick (or is it Finkelstein?) argues that Jewish political organizations used it in the wake of the Six Day War in 1967 as a tool to garner sympathy for Israel. Once the ball and the cash got rolling it took on a momentum all of its own…

  73. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That’s true. You’re right He just took photos and didn’t go into the allied bombings that disrupted Germany and supplies to the camps.

  74. Alden says:
    @Renoman

    Read it when you have the time. It’s not a short read it while drinking morning coffee article.

  75. utu says:
    @Che Guava

    ‘Why were the presumably logical military giving priority to transport for this, when they were having much more pressing needs?’

    Just the other day I was reading wiki entry on Field Marshal Erich von Manstein. In April 1944 he was dismissed by Hitler and went on medical leave. Then in October 1944 he bought an estate in East Pomerania.

    What was he thinking? How did he pay for the estate and who sold it?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @lysias
  76. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    I believe in the Holocaust, but I think the numbers were much much lower than stated and I think Jews were definately complicit thenselves.

    No matter how many Jewish bussinesses were vandalized, many Jews liked Germany and considered themselves more German than Jew. I think the extreme Zionist wing used the holocaust as a way to eliminate the undesirable Jews that opposed Isreal and were too German.

    • Replies: @Felix Krull
    , @Wally
  77. EugeneGur says:

    Before the war, millions of Jews had lived in Eastern Europe, and after the war, those communities had mostly vanished. This undeniable fact has long stood as an implicit central pillar of the traditional Holocaust narrative. . . vast numbers of Polish Jews had been transported by the Soviets to locations deep within their territory..

    Yes, some Jews were evacuated ahead of the advancing German troops, some ran away on their own knowing what was in store for them – what does it prove? The remaining ones, however, were exterminated. For example, in Crimea alone about half of the pre-War Jews escaped before the German occupation, but the remaining half was killed – almost all of them – approximately 40,000.

    The German conducted complete clearance on the Soviet territory, and most Soviet Jews never even made it to the concentration camps. This applied to the civil population as well as to the Russian Army. Every group of POW was sorted, with Jews and communists most often killed on the spot, and there are millions of testimonies to that.

    Obviously, the number is imprecise. Perhaps, the Nazis left good records in the concentrations camps, but in most mass massacres on the Soviet territory the exact numbers are unknown, and the estimates vary pretty widely.

    However, no matter how you minimize the total number (and how do you know that at a closer look it’s going to go down, not up?), the fact remains: the Nazis targeted the Jews for extermination based on their nationality, and that the definition of holocaust.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Wally
    , @peterAUS
  78. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    If there weren’t holocaust denial, the Jews would create it; just as they created the myth of the late 19th century E European pogroms to facilitate the mass immigration to America, S Africa and W. Europe

    I can always tell when the Israeli Bonds and AIPAC fundraisers are coming to town, there’s a rash of anti Semitic threats, mostly graffiti on the walls of Jewish buildings. It’s to spread fear of “ “ it could happen again if we don’t give money to AIPAC”

    A lot of the Jewish buildings in Los Angeles are fortified with huge 10 foot walls, security guards at the gate showing dr licenses to enter.

  79. @Meimou

    ‘How do you keep the murder of millions s secret anyway?

    If it was so “dull” why did the OS get more important over time?’

    It wasn’t a secret. My father had an enormous library of World War Two books — most dating from the fifties. I started reading them around 1964; I can remember several books dealing with the extermination of the jews in his collection.

    Of course the Holocaust happened. It’s tedious that there are so many who so monotonously insist otherwise.

    Ironically, the problem is that they’re dull too.

  80. Antiwar7 says:
    @Che Guava

    Mother Night was published 7 years before Slaughterhouse-Five.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  81. utu says:
    @Che Guava

    Saw and later read Slaughterhouse 5, later found that Vonnegut, a direct witness of the Dresden atrocity, was essentially forced to write Mother Night as a mea culpa for it.

    You are confabulating. Mother Night was published seven years before Slaughterhouse 5.

    Vonnegut published Slaughterhouse 5 (which imo is one of the greatest anti-war novels) during the Vietnam War. The U.S. was bombing Vietnam for over 4 years already. East Germany was permitted by Soviets to present Dresden bombing as the greatest atrocity by American and British allies against civilians. The bombings of German cities were referred to as terrorist bombings just as the American bombings of Vietnam. After Germany’s reunification this stopped and building of new narrative aiming at British-German reconciliation was started. German and British historians got very busy to drive the number of dead in Dresden from over 100,000 to below 25,000 in a futile attempt to achieve parity with Coventry (178 killed) that presumably was to justify the bombing of Dresden. You see, lowering the number of German victims is OK while any attempts to lower Jewish victim is a crime.

    Vonnegut most likely was influenced by 1963 David Irving’s The Destruction of Dresden. What is interesting that Poland produced a very sympathetic to German suffering film about Dresden (Tonight a City Will Die) already in 1961. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonight_a_City_Will_Die. The film is available with Russian subtitles at Youtube:

    Сегодня ночью погибнет город / Tonight a City Will Die (1961)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2wZfFv94k

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Che Guava
  82. One of the curiosities about Lipstadt (and others) is that she has her academic position at the otherwise rather unnoticed Emory University.

    Emory came to a settlement concerning accusations that its school of dentistry discriminated against Jewish applicants in the past. Now it appears to have a school of Holocaust worship/Israel support (the two tend to involve the same people).

    I mention this because Lipstadt isn’t the only such character I’ve seen connected with Emory. A few years back, on another board, some self-appointed advocate of Israel showed up who evidently considered himself a great intellectual showed up and started trying to ‘reason’ with us. I remember tearing him a new one to my complete satisfaction — but the point is that he was a ‘professor’ of Holocaustry at Emory as well.

    I’d be interested to know the precise terms of the settlement Emory reached in the anti-semitism suit.

  83. anarchyst says:

    If one honestly investigates the jewish holocaust ™ and comes to the conclusion that many of the claims concerning the jewish holocaust ™ are not only false but scientifically impossible, one can still be prosecuted for “improper thoughts”.
    You see, in Canada, and in many European countries, ANY deviation from the official holocaust ™ fable is punishable by fines and imprisonment. In addition, Canadian and European courts utilize the concept of “judicial notice” in which “commonly accepted beliefs” are sacrosanct, even if they can be proven false. Defendants in these “kangaroo courts” are not permitted to enter into evidence PROOF that certain holocaust ™ claims are indeed false, EVEN IF THEY CAN BE PROVEN SO. “Judicial notice”, in itself, turns the concept of “equal justice under law” on its head, and lends credibility to the fact that these “kangaroo courts” are not interested in the TRUTH, but have a deeper, far more insidious purpose–keeping the (false) claims of the jewish holocaust ™ alive and safe from scrutiny.
    You see, TRUTH is not part of these “kangaroo courts”. The jewish holocaust ™ has been turned into a “religion” in which NO deviation from the “official story” (orthodoxy) is allowed–even when holocaust ™ claims can be proven to be false.
    It is said that the light of day is the best disinfectant–except when it comes to “all things holocaust ™”.
    Monika Schaefer…
    Ursula Haverbeck…
    Both are grandmothers who are serving hard-time in German maximum-security prisons for daring to deviate from the “official” jewish holocaust ™ story.
    Question to holocaust ™ promoters…why are you so afraid of the TRUTH?

  84. anarchyst says:

    There is NOT ONE DOCUMENT outlining any extermination plan for jews or others. In fact, prominent Zionists collaborated with the German government and formulated plans at the highest level of the German government for the “transfer” of jews to what was then known as Palestine. Absolutely nothing about extermination.

    Official International Red Cross figures for all camp “deaths” total around 731,000–NOT “6 million”. In fact, population totals pre-WW2 and post-WW2 show an INCREASE in the jewish population in post-WW2 Europe immediately after the cessation of the war…

    If a country were hell-bent on genocide, WHY WOULD IT KEEP RECORDS?? WHY would it build “camps” hundreds (if not thousands) of miles away with sanitary facilities, housing, medical, recreational and other ancillary facilities? Would it not have been easier to just “eliminate” them without going through all of this trouble? Why would they expend massive effort on logistical movement utilizing their limited energy resources if the goal was extermination? Things do not “add up”…

    Something BIG “stinks” in this whole jewish “holocaust ™” deal. It is no secret that jewish Zionists made “deals” with the German government in order to make life “uncomfortable” for jewish Germans. In fact, it was jewish Zionist leaders who first proposed that all jews wear the “yellow Star of David” armband so that they could be easily identified. German jews considered themselves Germans first and had no desire to emigrate.

    The establishment of a “homeland” along with the 6,000,000 figure was a Zionist “dream” since the 1800s. Many periodicals of the day starting with the 1800s touted the “six-million” figure.

    What better way to encourage “emigration” to a foreign land than to make things difficult for the “cream of German society” (jews)?? The TRUTH about the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” is out . . .

    As cremation of ONE human body takes hours, the amount of time claimed by holocaust ™ promoters is a physical, scientific and statistical impossibility. Their claims also do not account for the “downtime” that crematoria require for maintenance, etc. In addition, there are no mass burial sites that are commensurate with the claims of “six-million” or even “one-million”. There is also a jewish prohibition on excavation of claimed possible burial sites. WHY?? Because THEY DO NOT EXIST. There is even a prohibition on the use of ground penetrating radar to search for burial sites. WHY?? If millions were gassed and cremated, the activities would have lasted well into the 1950s.

    The so-called jewish “holocaust ™” has been turned into a de-facto “religion” in which no deviation from orthodoxy is permitted. In fact, in most European countries, independent investigation into jewish “holocaust ™” truths is strictly forbidden under pain of fines and imprisonment. In the USA, things are not quite as bad, only job loss and personal and professional destruction at the hands of those of the “tribe” that FEAR the real truth of the jewish “holocaust ™” being exposed is evident. A questionable judicial “trick” used in “holocaust ™” trials is that of “judicial notice” in which TRUTH CANNOT BE USED AS A DEFENSE OR ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE IN THE “KANGAROO COURTS” THAT PROSECUTE THOSE WHO DARE TO INVESTIGATE THIS HISTORICAL EVENT. Judicial notice, once invoked against a defendant, disallows the introduction of evidence that does not conform to “commonly accepted beliefs” about the “holocaust ™”, EVEN IF THE EVIDENCE EXPOSES THE “HOLOCAUST ™” LIES AND FABRICATIONS THAT CAN EASILY BE DEBUNKED. A question for you “holocaust ™” promoters–why are there laws that criminalize the search for truth?? What are you afraid of??

    When the truth about this historical event comes out, it will change much of the world’s perception about those that are using this event as a “cash cow” that “keeps on giving”. . . “there’s NO business like “SHOAH business”. Zionist complicity in this event is carefully “covered up”.

    A good example of present-day censorship is the fate that awaits those that dare question “official” jewish “holocaust” orthodoxy. Most European countries have criminalized ANY line of thought that deviates from the “official” jewish “holocaust” story. WHY?? In fact, TRUTH is no defense when it comes to “all things holocaust ™”. Ask noted WW2 researcher David Irving, who was forced to recant TRUTH in order to avoid punishment.

    The latest “vicitms” of “holocaustianity ™” are Ursula Haverbeck and Monika Schaefer, both grandmothers who have been prosecuted and sentenced to maximum-security prisons in Germany for “incorrect thoughts”.

    If people only knew of the planning that took place (among those of the “chosen”) to engineer the jewish “holocaust”, there would be a pogrom of massive size. You see, the jewish “holocaust” was necessary in order to force the establishment of a jewish state. In this case, the ENDS justified the MEANS. There have been many “holocausts” of much greater misery throughout human history, yet the jewish “holocaust ™” is the only one that counts . . . It is interesting to note that the term “holocaust ™” to mean “mass extermination” was never used during or immediately after WW2, only coming to vogue in the 1960s, when it was noted that “guilt” could be assigned and reparations could be procured.

    Look at the “commercialization of the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” while the much larger communist (true) holocaust is conveniently forgotten. To assure a continuing supply of jewish “holocaust ™” “survivors”, jews are tattooing their ATM (oops, I mean “camp” numbers) on their children and grandchildren. In addition, jewish psychologists have come up with a new concept, and “disease”–”holocaust ™ “transference syndrome”. You see, children and grandchildren of jewish “holocaust ™” survivors are infected with this “disease” and should also be considered “holocaust ™” survivors, eligible for “holocaust ™” reparations. According to these jewish psychiatrists, even unrelated individuals can be “infected” with this “malady”.

    Since the Zionist jews declared war on Germany in 1933 (yes, 1933), the Germans had no choice but to complete the Zionist plan of marginalizing German jews (to say the least).. This fulfilled the Zionist plan of forcing German jews to emigrate to Palestine while making the world grant jews a “homeland”–Israel. It is interesting to note that the German boycott of jewish businesses lasted for one day, whil the jewish boycott (actually the jews’ declaration of war on Germany) started in 1933 and lasted until the summation of WW2.

    Zionists have been predicting a jewish “homeland” for the last two-hundred years while predicting a “holocaust ™” of 6 million for the same amount of time. The ACTUAL number of non-combatant deaths in the European theater of operations is approximately 731,000, NOT 6 million (official International Red Cross figures). The International Red Cross had full access to all of the camps for the duration of the war, yet reported NOT ONE INSTANCE of extermination or mass murder.

    Regarding that “holocaust ™” “showplace” Auschwitz, there are engineering inconsistencies in the design of the so-called “gas chambers”. The doors are not of a gas-tight design; it would have been impossible to retrieve the bodies, and there is no means to ventilate the rooms after the so-called “gassing” took place”. There is a “gas chamber” chimney that is not connected to anything. From an engineering standpoint, these are very serious errors that would have caused the deaths of the “operators” of these supposed “gas chambers”. As Germans were excellent engineers, it is difficult to observe the glaring engineering errors that presently exist in these “camps”.

    American execution expert, Fred Leuchter travelled to Auschwitz, surreptitiously obtained samples from the purported “gas chambers”, had them tested and published his results. The absence of Prussian blue (ferricyanide) in ALL of the samples, save one, was PROOF that the “gas chambers” did not exist. The one positive sample was taken from a room used to disinfect clothing. In fact, the “chimney” for the supposed “gas chamber” does not connect to anything.

    Mr. Leuchter’s was rewarded for his search for TRUTH by his professional and personal character assassination by those of the “tribe”. He lost all of his federal and state contracts, and was prosecuted under an obscure Massachusetts “law” for “practicing engineering without a license”–a law which had never been used vindictively before or since. . .After his report was published, he was harassed by Israeli “deep state” types (mossad) who he successfully “outed”.

    It is no secret that after WW2, the Soviets attempted to “create” the “death camps” for propaganda purposes. Yes, there was extreme deprivation and suffering–many people perished. The prime cause of death was typhus. As allied bombings destroyed most of the infrastructure, typhus was at epidemic levels. THIS is what caused the massive amounts of human deaths . . .NOT gassing.

    It is interesting to note that, before the camps were “liberated” by the “allies”, the camp occupants chose to flee with the German troops, rather than be “liberated” by the Russian “allies”.

    It is said that “the light of day is the best disinfectant in the search for truth” Unfortunately this quote does not apply to “all things holocaust ™”. It appears that there are those “holocaust ™” promoters who are afraid of the TRUTH. Hence the prosecution and incarceration of those who dare question aspects of this historical event.

    I urge all “holocaust ™” believers to check these things out for yourselves–IF YOU DARE. You will not like what you find…

  85. For literature on the Holocaust in several languages go to AAARGH:
    http://aaargh.vho.org/index.html
    The works of Butz, Faurisson, Irving, etc. are available there for download.

    Below are some of the works that I have translated for AAARGH:

    Maurice Bardèche: Nuremberg or the Promised Land
    This is perhaps the first work of post-WWII revisionism.
    http://aaargh.vho.org/fran/livres7/BARDECHEnureng.pdf

    Serge Thion: A Brief History Of Revisionism
    http://aaargh.vho.org/fran/livres8/STBriefHist.pdf

    Pierre Guillaume: Law and History
    http://aaargh.vho.org/fran/livres7/PGLawhistory.pdf

    Georges Theil: Our Mission: Dismantle the Planetary Slander In Order to Help Build an Honest World
    http://aaargh.vho.org/fran/livres8/GTOurMission.pdf

  86. @EugeneGur

    ‘…The German conducted complete clearance on the Soviet territory, and most Soviet Jews never even made it to the concentration camps. This applied to the civil population as well as to the Russian Army. Every group of POW was sorted, with Jews and communists most often killed on the spot, and there are millions of testimonies to that.

    Obviously, the number is imprecise. Perhaps, the Nazis left good records in the concentrations camps, but in most mass massacres on the Soviet territory the exact numbers are unknown, and the estimates vary pretty widely…’

    Add too that many Jews must have run off into the forests and swamps and starved or frozen to death in the winter; in the accounts of the Holocaust in Christopher Browning’s ‘Ordinary Men’ there were enormous numbers of such Jews.

    Generally, they weren’t able to survive for long; the forests of Eastern Europe aren’t hospitable places in the winter. Browning even recounts instances of Jews coming out of the woods and giving themselves up for certain execution; it beat slowly starving and freezing to death.

    …but how many simply died and rotted in the forests? There’s no way of coming to more than a rough approximation.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  87. anarchyst says:

    The facts about the Nuremberg Show Trials:

    It was accepted at Nuremberg that Jews were steamed to death at Treblinka in gas chambers,
    see: ‘All Steamed up at Treblinka and superlatively accurate / The importance of the Steam Tales’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11684

    The official use of torture in extracting “confessions” from Germans has been confirmed repeatedly.

    – All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:” 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. Observer & American judge, van Roden

    – Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    – U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    ” The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history.”
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    – The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    -When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.
    and:
    – “The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948.
    more:
    -TORTURE: verifiable, acknowledged, damning. What Does It Mean for Revisionism?’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11697&p=87703

    and:
    – Nuremberg – Fair Trial or Show Trial ?’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11053

    • Replies: @red-ice
  88. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Very old news and repeatedly debunked here:

    The Speech of Heinrich Himmler: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1184
    exc.:

    No human remains to back up the unfounded claims. Not a single enormous mass grave as alleged has ever been excavated, contents verified and shown. Not one. The storyline says 6M Jews & 5M others = 11M, now just think about that.
    How bizarre, claims of mass murder where there is no evidence to support it. The gas chambers are scientifically impossible as alleged and have been debunked ad nauseum by Revisionists, and the alleged 1,000,000 – 2,000,000 supposed mass shootings of thousands at a time in claimed known sites have produced no mass graves at those sites. Why is that?

    In 1993, Robert Wolfe, supervisory archivist for captured German records at the National Archives admitted that a more precise translation of ‘ausrottung’ would be extirpation or tearing up by the roots. Wolfe also pointed out that in Himmler’s handwritten notes for the speech, that Himmler used the term, ‘judenevakuierung’, or evacuation of the Jews, not ‘extermination’.

    There are missing pages, retyped pages by different hands, even pages have been re-numbered..

    Then we have a so called “secret” speech in front of thousands. Frankly the assertions about it are laughable.

    Yivo (Yiddish Scientific Institute) of New York was very active in the Rosenberg Ministry to process documents for submittal to the Nuremberg trials.

    Members of the audience like SS-OGruF Gottlob Berger denied that Himmler was talking about the extermination of the Jews at all. I suggest reading: NMT, vol 13. p. 457-487

    – This alleged (recorded) speech, as German judge Staeglich has adroitly pointed out, is a hodgepodge of non-sequitors, nonsense, and re-worked text,see:
    ‘Auschwitz: A Judge Looks at the Evidence, by Wilhelm Stäglich’: http://codoh.com/library/document/230

    To have a speech with such alleged secret content recorded? Right. SS General Berger did not recognize Himmler’s voice listening to the tape.

    the complete lack of orders for the desperate assumptions made about it.[/quote]more here:
    ‘Posen speech’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=372
    and here:
    Heinrich Himmler’s Posen Speech from 04.10.1943, , By Heinrich Himmler
    Published: 1943-10-04, Given at Posen 4 October 1943, Translation of Document No. 1919-PS, Nuremberg Trial, by Carlos Porter: http://codoh.com/library/document/891/

    http://www.codoh.com

  89. ‘…The German conducted complete clearance on the Soviet territory, and most Soviet Jews never even made it to the concentration camps. This applied to the civil population as well as to the Russian Army. Every group of POW was sorted, with Jews and communists most often killed on the spot, and there are millions of testimonies to that…’

    This actually raises another, statistically intractable problem.

    About three-quarters of all the Russian P.O.W.’s died — most in 1941, and most as a consequence of deliberate starvation. So do we count the Jewish ones as ‘Holocaust victims’ when they probably would have been deliberately murdered anyway simply by being virtue of Soviet P.O.W.’s?

    As I recall, the first group of victims gassed at Auschwitz were Russian P.O.W.’s. If one of them was Jewish, does he count as simply a dead P.O.W. or a ‘Holocaust victim’?

  90. “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” – Voltaire

    The fate of anyone who dares question the “Holocaust” proves Voltaire to be absolutely correct.
    Great article Ron !!

    • Replies: @unseated
  91. escobar says:

    Unz needs to learn German and read the documents left by the camp commanders and and guards, their testimony at the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials in the 1960s, the documents in Eastern Europe and interviews conducted there by historians like Timothy Snyder (who learned several languages spoken there)…but that would spoil his confessional. By the way, no serious historian has mentioned the “Six Million” figure for years, in Germany and the USA they’ve settled on 5.1 to 5.2 million. The fake memoirs and plagiarized accounts do not change what happened.
    Yeah, there is a “Holocaust Industry” and the Holocaust has been used and abused to make money and to excuse evil stuff done by Jews–from Wall Street to Tel Aviv. But the core of the Holocaust “narrative” stands. Expose and denounce those who did thew embellishing for fame or profit or Zionism, but claiming that the Holocaust is a “fake” or “myth” is noxious nonsense. But, stick with it and have fun making yourself look as foolish as the ninnies screaming about “white privilege” and “white supremacy” and white deviltry in general. Why not join the “dumb and dumber” parade? It’s all the rage now.

    • Troll: L.K
  92. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    ” Forty-fifty years before the Second World War, Jews had started retailing what turned out to be grossly exaggerated accounts of their sufferings in Russian pogroms.”

    “Grossly exaggerated” if at all. But that’s nothing compared to:

    Since at least 1823 Jews have been pushing their fake 6,000,000:

    6 MILLION?


    and:
    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    http://www.codoh.com

  93. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “No doubt the Germans were being beastly to the Jews — but actually killing them by the million? That elicited a collective raised eyebrow.”

    Really? Please present your proof of this ‘beastliness’

    The Germans did nothing that wasn’t being done by the Allies and others worldwide.

    http://www.codoh.com

  94. Wally says:
    @phil

    – Of course, when liars lies, they must then defend those lies with more lies.
    ‘O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive’.

    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    Alleged “ash pond” for 1,100,000 Jew remains at Auschwitz, no actual remains can be shown.

    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains can be shown

    http://www.codoh.com

  95. @utu

    ‘…After Germany’s reunification this stopped and building of new narrative aiming at British-German reconciliation was started. German and British historians got very busy to drive the number of dead in Dresden from over 100,000 to below 25,000 in a futile attempt to achieve parity with Coventry (178 killed) that presumably was to justify the bombing of Dresden. You see, lowering the number of German victims is OK while any attempts to lower Jewish victim is a crime…’

    I see the motive as being to steal the thunder of the German far-right. No Dresden victim cult.

    It infuriates me on two scores. First, there’s the obvious mendacity. A comparison with the statistics for the Hamburg firestorm and a consideration of the various factors that would have tended to drive the death toll up for Dresden makes it clear that the older figure of 135,000 was probably about right to begin with, and in any case, 25,000 is absurdly low.

    Secondly, there’s the moral question. If it is an outrage to burn 135,000 people alive, how does it somehow become acceptable to burn ‘only’ 25,000 alive? It would seem that only those incinerated in the biggest bonfire get a victims’ halo.

    Germany could do with a victim cult. Collective guilt is a moral travesty to begin with — but in any case, the German people amply suffered in 1943-1948 for ‘their’ crimes. I’d hate to see the German people veer towards wanting ‘revenge,’ but there’s no need for them to feel guilt. To the extent that they can collectively be held responsible for anything, they paid, that’s for sure.

  96. @Alden

    It’s pretty well known that Eisenhower decided to film, take photos and make a visual record of the camps as soon as he saw them.

    Here’s some…

    German civilians visit the Buchenwald concentration camp in Weimar, Germany. HD Stock Footage

    Mentioned:
    Lampshade made of human skin.
    Pieces of skin used to draw art on.
    Two shrunken heads.
    Bad case of trench foot.
    Bodies appearing possibly to have died of typhus.

    Not mentioned:
    Gas chambers.
    Jews.

    First Newsreel Pictures Of The Liberation Of The Nazi Death Camps

    Not mentioned:
    Gas chambers.
    Jews.

  97. “Indeed, the fascinating and widely-praised 2002 book Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers by Bryan Mark Rigg notes that aside from Milch, Hitler’s military contained over a dozen half-Jewish generals and admirals and another dozen quarter-Jews of that same high rank, plus a total of roughly 150,000 additional half- or quarter-Jewish soldiers, with a large fraction of these being officers. All of these individuals would have had some fully-Jewish parents or grand-parents, which seems decidedly odd behavior for a regime supposedly so focused on the total eradication of the Jewish race.”

    If one considers the nature of Judaism- with it’s dispositions towards amorality, nihilism, subversion, the peculiarly fluid nature of Jewish ethnicity (seeing themselves as a distinct race, yet at same time throughout history showing themselves to have gone through periods of extensive mixing with surrounding populations, considering one to be Jewish if they have a Jewish mother even if this makes no real sense from a genetic perspective etc.), the fact many of the most dedicated anti-semites have often been Jewish (and Jews being neo-nazis or involved in the “far right” not being unheard of even today) etc., it might not be unsurprising a large number of mixed Jews were Nazis. After all, in your article “American Pravda: Oddities of the Jewish Religion”, you also noted that Nazism appears to have drawn inspiration from Judaism itself, and Nazism has long struck me as a rather schizophrenic ideology (like Judaism is a schizophrenic religion), as it’s adherents run the gamut of coming off as humanitarian in a sense with wanting self-determination for all people, to bonafide, foaming at the mouth white supremacists who want most or all other races exterminated.

    That this has not been explored of course raises unsavory questions about Judaism, hence why their massive role in Bolshevism and Communism has gone unremarked/ignored.

    “But just last year, I was stunned to discover that former total was simply a whole-cloth invention by prominent Holocaust-activist Simon Wiesenthal, who simply made the figure up one day with the intent of giving non-Jews more of a stake in the Holocaust story. And despite being based on absolutely no evidence or research, his casual claim was never effectively refuted by actual Holocaust scholars, who knew it to be total nonsense, and therefore it was so regularly repeated in the media that I probably read it hundreds of times over the years, always assuming it had some firm grounding in proven reality.”

    I don’t think Wiesenthal actually made those up, atleast that he didn’t actually fabricate a 5 million that wasn’t in pre-existing death tolls. What he seems to have done is come up with this 5 million figure on the basis of accepted deaths from non-Jews, mostly Soviet POW’s, but also Roma and other minorities, or he just came up with this 5 million figure and others used accepted deaths of non-jews as comprising these 5 million.

    The article nonetheless really does reveal Jewish attitudes about the centrality of Jewish suffering while claiming that’s not their intent, particularly this passage:

    ““I have been to many Yom Hashoah observances — including those sponsored by synagogues and Jewish communities — where eleven candles were lit,” she wrote in an article in the Jewish Review of Books in which she lacerated Wiesenthal’s ethical standards. “When I tell the organizers that they are engaged in historical revisionism, their reactions range from skepticism to outrage. Strangers have taken me to task in angry letters for focusing ‘only’ on Jewish deaths and ignoring the five million others. When I explain that this number is simply inaccurate, in fact made up, they become even more convinced of my ethnocentrism and inability to feel the pain of anyone but my own people.”

    The problem, according to Bauer, who has debunked the number repeatedly in his writings over the decades, is not that non-Jews were not victims; they were. It is that Wiesenthal’s arbitrarily chosen tally of non-Jewish victims diminishes the centrality to the Nazi ideology of systematically wiping any trace of the Jewish people from the planet.

    In fact, he said, the term “genocide” could accurately be applied to the 2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis. But the mass murder of the Poles, Roma and others should not come under the rubric “Holocaust,” a term that Holocaust historians generally dislike because of its religious connotations but nonetheless have accepted as describing only the annihilation that the Nazis hoped to visit on the Jews.

    “All Jews of the world had to be annihilated,” Bauer said. “That was the intent. There was never an idea in Nazi minds to murder all the Russians.”

    The number 5 million also adheres to no known understanding of the number of non-Jews killed by the Nazis: While as many as 35 million people were killed overall because of Nazi aggression, the number of non-Jews who died in the concentration camps is no more than half a million, Bauer said.”

    It is widely accepted that Nazi Germany had broadly exterminationist policies targeted at many non-Jews (and were apparently interested in exterminating various non-Jewish groups altogether as well), and even if these were considered a “genocide”, the label “Holocaust” must not be applied to them because of the centrality of wiping out all Jews. This really doesn’t square with his denial of ethnocentrism. And it’s even more remarkable with the last passage, that “there was never an idea in Nazi minds to murder all the Russians”- really? Despite the immeasurable casualties on the eastern front the occurred in just a few years, the brutality Nazi Germany showed towards the Soviets and other Slavic nations, the fact many Nazis did indeed regard many Slavs as sub-human, and we still these attitudes today among various Neo-Nazis? Not one Nazi back then wanted to wipe out all Russians? Get out.

    “Some angry Internet activist has put together a graphic displaying extracts from dozens of New York Times stories between 1869 and 1941 all citing the figure of 6 million Eastern European Jews as being threatened with death, suggesting that our official Holocaust body-count actually predated World War II by as much as three generations. I really wouldn’t be surprised if that might be the original source of the number.”

    I’ve lost track of a specific cite on this, but the “angry Internet activist” should tell you something about the credibility of this. That span of 71 years concerning pending mass Jewish deaths related to various eastern european catastrophes should tell you something- “6 million” is not the only claimed figure. Those estimates of pending Jewish deaths encompassed a very wide ranged of figures claimed in the NYT over a period of many decades, and “6 million” was a minority of purported estimates. This is not a very good piece of evidence in favor of the “6 million” figure being fabricated.

    • Replies: @Unstremian
    , @Colin Wright
  98. phil says:
    @Anon

    Himmler (Posen): “I also want to mention a very difficult subject before you here, completely openly. It should be discussed amongst us, and yet, nevertheless, we will never speak about it in public. . . . I am talking about the “Jewish evacuation”: the [Ausrottung] of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. “The Jewish people is being [ausgerottet],” every Party member will tell you, “perfectly clear, it’s part of our plans, we’re [ausschalten] the Jews, [ausrotten] them, ha!, a small matter.” . . . Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when there are 500, or when there are 1000. And to have seen this through, and — with the exception of human weaknesses — to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned. . . . We have taken away the riches that they had, and I have given a strict order, which Obergruppenführer Pohl has carried out, we have delivered these riches completely to the Reich, to the State. We have taken nothing from them for ourselves. A few, who have offended against this, will be [judged] in accordance with an order, that I gave at the beginning: He who takes even one Mark of this is a dead man.”

    “Extermination” is an English word which can be interpreted figuratively or literally according to the context. The German referred to above can also be translated as “rooting out.” So translated, it is also consistent with a policy of mass deportations or “evacuations.” During WWII did the words and actions of Germans in some cases cross the line into the realm of murder that is not even justified in war? I think so, but there is a big difference between hundreds of thousands, or a million, and 6 million. More archaelogical work and archival (Russian) work would be desirable in this respect.

  99. @Anonymous

    I believe in the Holocaust, but I think the numbers were much much lower than stated.

    Those two statements are mutually exclusive. You are, de jure, guilty of Holocaust denial and your post may land you in prison if you ever visit Germany, since you voice doubt about the holy six million.

    And I’m not kidding either. Furthermore, you will have problems finding legal representation, since it is illegal for lawyers to argue substantially on the issue, because doing so will amount to compounding the Holocaust denial

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  100. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said: “So we’re at 3.5 million as a minimum figure — I’d go with at least 5 million myself. ”
    Yet you have zero proof. Your engaging in garbage in, garbage out.

    Let us know where we can see the alleged human remains in allegedly known locations.

    On Irving, who BTW was released from prison early, hmm:
    Irving’s ‘holocaust’ lite / but what ‘2.4 million document’?
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548
    and :
    ‘Irving attempts ‘rehabilitation’ via the Hoefle Telegram’
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4558
    and:
    Grubach’s Open Letter to David Irving on his recent change of mind about the Holocaust
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4563

    on the Einsatzgruppen:
    Per their alleged ‘Holocaust by Bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

  101. bookish1 says:

    a few simple but true facts can demolish that holocaust story forever: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t553062/

  102. Wally says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    said:
    “Of course he did. Rebirth through ordeal & fire was the center of his world-view, Jews being considered to be something like pestilence, or rats who destroy high culture through their intrinsic & unalterable pervy rottenness. ”

    IOW, you have no proof for the ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and hope to distract.

    Kruschev said “We will bury you.” Are we buried?

    Ayatollah Khomeini called the US the “Great Satan” Are we in hell? LOL

    Netanyahu’s Racist Incitement, Dehumanizing non-Jews, Palestinians Designated as “Wild Beasts
    https://www.mondialisation.ca/netanyahus-racist-incitement-dehumanizing-non-israelis-palestinians-designated-as-wild-beasts/5508659

    Jews mock killing of pregnant Palestinians and children.

    and:
    Two teenage Israeli girls carrying a placard in Hebrew reading: “Hating Arabs is not racism, it’s values.”

    http://www.codoh.com

  103. Patricus says:

    Killing with gas chambers has been debunked pretty thoroughly. I think there were systematic persecutions and slaughters of Jews and others, usually shootings or hangings. It might not be six million, maybe two million?? and most deaths came by typhus or malnutrition just as German POWs died in American and Soviet camps. It was awful but just a fraction of the tens of millions slaughtered in that war. Let’s hope we don’t see more of these mass killings anytime soon.

  104. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Since your browser is apparently broken, here’s one of many links on that subject. They might call it hate speech or in Germany, ” Incitement to hatred,” but it’s the same; deny the holocaust and risk fines and prison in 21 European nations and Russia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
    Some nations can hit you with up to 1o years for merely asking questions about the historical accuracy of the holocaust story or harass you endlessly, like they’ve do to Alison Chaboz in England–who got probation, fined and community service–or Monika Schaefer of Canada, who was arrested in Germany for Incitement to hatred back in January and has been sitting in a maximum security prison while awaiting trial, which finally started mid-July.

    She was visiting her brother in Germany when she got arrested for singing a song in Canada two years earlier and putting it on Youtube.

    This video is her crime, singing a song, “Sorry Mom, I was wrong about the Holocaust.” Although if you’re in Britain, you won’t be able to view it, as it has been blocked.

    Or the 88 yo German Ursula Haverbeck, who got hit with a two year sentence for denying the holocaust, about the same time some idiot German judge let a pack of young illegal aliens go free who had violently raped–nearly to death–a 14 yo girl. His reasoning was that they didn’t understand that NO meant NO and prison wouldn’t be good for them.

    Now if that ain’t a fugged up world, then we’re all mad.

    https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-grandma-loses-appeal-in-top-german-court-over-holocaust-denial-sentence/a-44944546

    What are they afraid of? Methinks the truth.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @kiismerhe
  105. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Of course the Holocaust happened. It’s tedious that there are so many who so monotonously insist otherwise.”

    Yet you still have produced no proof. You’re just reciting Zionist propaganda. We wonder why?

    It’s so “boring” yet we hear about it 24/7/365.

    Proof, Colin, why can’t you produce it?

    http://www.codoh.com

  106. macilrae says:

    Back in the 1970s I knew a gentleman of Polish origin, now long dead, who told me he spent five years as an inmate of Dachau concentration camp. He recounted that he was given a role there which included the supervision of those who were to be killed – many of whom were ethnic Polish intellectuals and activists like him but, also included, and specially mentioned for their bravery, were the Jehovah’s Witnesses who, he said, went to their deaths with a sort of “gleam” in their eyes. According to him, around ten percent of the inmates of Dachau were Jewish.

    He explicitly stated therefore that extermination took place – and apparently this is debatable in the case of Dachau – I assumed at the time he referred to ‘gassing’ yet I don’t recall him specifying this as the means – equally the victims could have been shot.

    I wish now that I could question him further but, alas, it’s too late.

  107. Sparkon says:

    This article is a courageous and comprehensive tour de force by Ron Unz.

    Bravo!

    For me, the bludgeon that smashed the Hollow Cost piñata was the authoritative Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948, which I had stumbled upon while looking under rocks in the aftermath of 9/11.

    In 1960, I was a student at a Catholic grade school, and I recall one day when the nun seemingly out of nowhere started talking about the Nazi program to gas all the Jews, which was the first I’d heard of it, although by then everyone knew the Nazis were evil, wicked, and mean, and don’t you forget it:


    Man’s Story, November 1962, illustration by Norman Saunders

    • Replies: @DFH
  108. Che Guava says:
    @Antiwar7

    Mea culpa for the error, I have never read Mother Night, only seen the film, on checking, film and book of it are very different.

    I am always trying to not make such errors, but bad assumption on my part. I read all of his novels of that time (never at the time), except that one.

    So thank you, and also to utu for the correction. Am feeling terrible for the error.

    • Replies: @Antiwar7
  109. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    Two heavy gravestones upon the perfidious Holocaust biz
    1. “… the reality of the important Nazi-Zionist economic partnership of the 1930s, with Nazi officials traveling to Palestine as honored Zionist guests and leading Nazi newspapers praising the Zionist enterprise…
    … aside from Field Marshal Erhard Milch, Hermann Goering’s very powerful number-two in the German Luftwaffe, Hitler’s military contained over a dozen half-Jewish generals and admirals and another dozen quarter-Jews of that same high rank, plus a total of roughly 150,000 additional half- or quarter-Jewish soldiers, with a large fraction of these being officers…”
    2. “…the death toll of innocent civilians from the Bolshevik Revolution running well into the tens of millions … the Bolshevik leaders were overwhelmingly Jewish…Although only around 4% of Russia’s population was Jewish, Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government…
    And prior to World War II, Jews remained enormously over-represented in the Communist leadership, especially dominating the Gulag [a system of the murderous concentration camps] administration and the top ranks of the dreaded NKVD…
    …the inescapable conclusion is that in per capita terms Jews were the greatest mass-murderers of the twentieth century, holding that unfortunate distinction by an enormous margin and with no other nationality coming even remotely close.”

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  110. sarz says:

    It’s a real relief to see you using the phrase “Holocaust denial” rather than the weasly “Holocaust revisionism. I wish people like Gilad Atzmon would follow your lead. He says the best we can do is revise away, and so, since nothing is final, he can never ever say the Holocaust story is a crock of shit — just that he’s revising away. He calls it being in time, and that’s better than Heidegger (that old Nazi). Then there’s people like Israel Shamir, who’s on record that his guru on the Holocaust is Raoul Hilberg, and he’s one of your own stable of authors. And there’s the very Norman Finkelstein you respectfully mention, who gets a few shekels more from being the son of Auschwitz survivors and never, as it happens, denies the Holocaust, just denounces the racket.

    And these are truth-telling Jews, supposedly, as unnatural as a dog walking on its hind legs. So where the hell did you come from? If it’s something in the water somewhere, let’s bottle it.

  111. @Unstremian

    I also forgot to mention this part:

    “The number 5 million also adheres to no known understanding of the number of non-Jews killed by the Nazis: While as many as 35 million people were killed overall because of Nazi aggression, the number of non-Jews who died in the concentration camps is no more than half a million, Bauer said.””

    “No known understanding”, yet then goes on to admit half a million non-Jews died in concentration camps. And that’s still a lot of people. I have also again seen the “5 million” claimed to be comprise primarily of Soviet POW’s (who often died in prison camps) and many other non-Jews- Roma, homosexuals, political prisoners, various other ethnic and religious minorities etc. are the most often mentioned. There is “known understanding” of how all those people were killed, and Bauer admits to some of it. Besides, I don’t think any serious “Holocaust Scholar” or other historian who believes the standard figure and narrative would say every single Jew was killed in a concentration camp. So why fixate solely on concentration camp deaths?

    Bauer remarks on how his denial of the 5 million non-Jews dying in the Holocaust is often met with people being “more convinced of my ethnocentrism and inability to feel the pain of anyone but my own people.” And he exhibits exactly that in this article. Typical.

  112. Damn! Ron. Unz. Is. My. Hero.

    Meanwhile, the Jewish community also seems to contain far more than its fair share of the emotionally disturbed and the mentally ill, and perhaps as a consequence has served as a launching-pad for many of the world’s religious cults and fanatic ideological movements. Any exploration of the Holocaust certainly tends to support this rather negative appraisal.

    If I’m not mistaken, I believe it was Sigmund Freud himself who once speculated that Abraham had been a schizophrenic hearing the ‘voice of God’ telling him to smash the pagan idols in the temple of Ur. If so, then Judaism was founded by an insane man. This same Abraham, by the way, later again heard the ‘voice of God’ commanding him to sacrifice his only son, Isaac. What a nutbag!

    I recall several other columns from the mid-2000s dancing around Holocaust issues, but I now seem unable to locate them within the Counterpunch archives.

    I doubt you ever will , since CounterPurge has now been take over by a (((gang of four))) intent on getting rid of any of Cockburn’s excellent legacy. Very sad what happened to that once fine publication. But at least we now have Unz.com, which is even better.

    Thank you for your honesty, courage, and volume-reading, Ron. It means a lot … more than you know.

    • Replies: @Hans
  113. Ron Unz says:
    @academic gossip

    That is, [according to Churchill] dead Hungarian Jews in the German camps have fallen to “scientific machinery” used by “nominally civilized men in the name of a great State”

    Well, it all sounds kind of vague to me. Maybe he was referring to the report mentioned by Lipstadt that 1.5 million Jews had been killed by being individually injected near the heart by a lethal drug, which certainly requires science. And Rabbi Stephen Wise was claiming that millions of Jews had been killed and made into soap and human lampshades, which obviously also requires “scientific machinery.” Weren’t shrunken human heads exhibited at the Nuremberg Trials? And wasn’t there also some claim floating around that vast numbers of Jews had been killed by electrified floors or something like that?

  114. Even as late as 2009 an official at Israel’s Jewish Agency justified laws criminalizing Holocaust Denial by explaining that almost 65 years after the end of the war “there are still hundreds of thousands of living Holocaust survivors”

    2018 update:

    By the year 2035 [!], there will only be about 26,200 Holocaust survivors living in the country [Israel], according to a report the Central Bureau of Statistics released ahead of International Holocaust Remembrance Day on January 27.

    The researchers said that according to forecasts, in 2020 there will be some 142,000 survivors living in Israel and by 2025 this number will have decreased to 92,600 survivors.

    At the end of 2016, there were an estimated 186,500 Holocaust survivors living in Israel, the report said. This compared to 202,600 survivors at the end of 2015.

    Note, however, that the definition of “Holocaust survivor” is a very broad one: “A Holocaust survivor is a person who lived in one of the countries occupied by or under the direct influence of the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945, and/or refugees who were forced to leave their homes due to the Nazi regime”.

    Hence the breakdown of the current total of 186,500:

    about 57,500 are survivors from the ghettos, hideouts, labor camps and concentration camps, with 77% of the survivors originating in European countries, a plurality – 32% – from Romania. . .

    An additional 101,000 lived in countries under Nazi rule, of whom 55% were born in North Africa, primarily Morocco, Tunisia and Libya, and some 28,100 were refugees, of whom 76% were born in the Soviet Union, the report found.

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Only-26200-Holocaust-survivors-will-be-living-in-Israel-by-2035-539668

  115. Ron Unz says:
    @Anonymous

    “…Surely no zealous theologian of the European Dark Ages would have reacted any differently…”

    You nailed me! Actually, when I write my long articles I normally go through several drafts, changing a few words here and there, and an earlier version read “no zealous mid-level theologian,” but I decide the excise the extra adjective, which perhaps I shouldn’t have done…

  116. anarchyst says:
    @Alden

    Not only was the “diary” ghost-written by Otto Frank, most of it was written with a “ball-point pen”, not invented until well after WW2.
    The Frank’s were rounded up and arrested because of their black-market activities–nothing more…

    • Replies: @Alden
  117. conatus says:
    @Anonymous

    Yeah, he writes funny pieces over at Taki…a funny guy, really. In the Republican Party Animal book he discusses death totals in the last chapter. He says 3 to 3.5 mil, mostly by the Einsatzgruppen.

  118. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    said:
    “Yes, some Jews were evacuated ahead of the advancing German troops, some ran away on their own knowing what was in store for them – what does it prove? The remaining ones, however, were exterminated. For example, in Crimea alone about half of the pre-War Jews escaped before the German occupation, but the remaining half was killed – almost all of them – approximately 40,000. The German conducted complete clearance on the Soviet territory, and most Soviet Jews never even made it to the concentration camps. This applied to the civil population as well as to the Russian Army. Every group of POW was sorted, with Jews and communists most often killed on the spot, and there are millions of testimonies to that. ”

    – No they didn’t, that’s pure nonsense. It’s really a simple matter. You have absolutely no proof that they were “exterminated”. If you did you would present it here.

    – What “millions of testimonies”? Give us some. Specifics, not unfounded, bizarre Zionist propaganda.
    Who exactly said what …. specifically? Tell us what courts they ‘testified’ in and show us the verbatim transcripts & cross examination records of what they supposedly said.

    The Germans supposedly ‘tried to kill every Jew they could get there hands on’, yet there are currently ca. 1,000,000 ‘holocaust survivors’

    It’s claimed that there are immense Jew remains in allegedly known place. Please show us those claimed remains.

    Confession & Testimonies on Auschwitz, 40 ‘Gas Chamber Witnesses’Scrutinized

    available in German, https://shop.codoh.com/book/480/494
    English edition soon

    http://www.codoh.com

  119. @Unstremian

    ‘…The problem, according to Bauer, who has debunked the number repeatedly in his writings over the decades, is not that non-Jews were not victims; they were. It is that Wiesenthal’s arbitrarily chosen tally of non-Jewish victims diminishes the centrality to the Nazi ideology of systematically wiping any trace of the Jewish people from the planet…’

    It’s also almost comically obvious that the number ‘five million’ was chosen because it’s slightly less than ‘six million’ — there were other victims, but Jews were the biggest victims.

    Let’s leave aside the moral absurdity of being the ‘biggest’ victim. First off, perfectly respectable figures have plumped for figures other than six million for the number of Jews killed; didn’t Raul Hilberg settle on 5.1 million? Secondly, the number of gentiles killed is almost completely a matter of definition. Figures from German anti-partisan sweeps make it painfully clear many, many outright civilians were killed in them — just how many can never be known. Do we count Serbians caught in partisan zones? Russian POW’s who starved to death? Soldiers simply killed in combat? Only those taken to a camp and gassed? Have five million, have two million, have twenty million — have almost any number you like. Just adjust your definition to get what you want.

    The ‘Five million/six million’ figures are a contemptible bit of rhetorical legerdemain. ‘You were victims too — but we’re number one.’ For what it’s worth, in absolute numbers, Jews obviously didn’t get to be the Everest of corpse mountains. That dubious honor would go either to Chinese civilians or to the Soviet soldier — although here Hitler would have to share hangman’s honors with Stalin, who did at least as much to get so many killed as Hitler did.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @Unstremian
  120. Ron Unz says:

    Thanks to everyone who had kind words for my long article…or even bothered reading through the whole thing!

    Once again, I’d like to very forcefully reemphasize that I’m *absolutely* no sort of expert on the Holocaust. I’d never really had any serious suspicions until I read Cockburn’s columns about Hitchens beliefs a dozen years ago, and only decided to seriously investigate the topic in the mid-2010s. Furthermore, I really doubt I’ve spent more than just a few weeks total in reading and researching the complex subject. So how could my knowledge possibly compare with that of so many others on both sides, who’d devoted their entire professional lives to the issue?

    When I looked into the Holocaust, I read some of the most prominent Holocaust Denial books and a considerably larger number of debunkers on the other side. As near as I could tell, the most visible writers in that latter camp were Lipstadt and Shermer, and I was very unimpressed with their quality, which certainly impacted my opinion.

    For those interested in spending a little time on the topic, I’d recommend just listening to the two hour YouTube radio interview of Nicholas Kollerstrom that I linked above.

    He came across as being quite credible to me. For those who agree, I’d recommend buying his short book, that can be read in just a long afternoon. Among other things, he seems to persuasively estimate that the total Jewish deaths at Auschwitz were something like 99% lower than the traditional figure. Maybe he’s just a lunatic—who knows? But if you find him credible, I think that would tend to support my strong suspicion that the conventional narrative of the Holocaust is at least “substantially false.”

  121. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Why do you “believe”? You have no proof.

    You sound like a believing religious fanatic, a True Believer. Really nutty stuff.

    http://www.codoh.com

    To believe in the ‘holocaust’ one must want or need to believe in it.

  122. Wally says:
    @utu

    A wiki entry? LOL

    Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia?
    It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet
    https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    http://www.codoh.com

  123. utu says:

    Before the WWII over 3 million Jews lived in Poland. It is believed that approx. 85% of them were ultra Orthodox and Hasidic. After the WWII approx. 300,000 Polish Jews were found alive in Poland. But there were not many ultra-Orthodox and Hasidic Jews among them. The ones who survived were the assimilated ones, Bundists, Zionists and Communist. The deeply religious Jews did not show up in Poland after the WWII. They did not become ardent Zionist and hid in Israel. Hasidic Jews did not join Komsomol or Communist party while in the USSR and hid in the Workers’ Paradise. They can’t be accounted as DPs in Germany. They did not show up in America or Argentina or Brazil. They were gone. If the Holocaust revisionism is to be taken seriously it must come up with the story for the vanished religious Jews of Poland. But it can’t present a credible story of survival because these Jews indeed died during the WWII while in a custody of German occupying forces. Claiming that they did not die is exactly what Holocaust industry wants. The extreme Holocaust denialism serves Zionist interests. Codoh and Wally’s of this world are agent of Zionist interests as unwitting useful idiots at best. The questions why did the religious Jews die and that nobody wanted to hear about their death during the WWII is a much bigger story. The revisionists should consider looking into the stories that are being told by Neuterei Karta and Satmar Hassidic Jews. What Eichmann could have told us if he was not executed in Israel? Why the Holocaust narrative was downplayed before his death? This is a crime mystery where we want to find all the culprits and their motives while the Holocaust deniers want us to believe there was no crime, no victim and thus there was no culprit.

  124. @annamaria

    ‘Two heavy gravestones upon the perfidious Holocaust biz…’

    You need to learn to think with greater precision. Even when true, most of your cited facts do nothing to disprove the reality of the Holocaust or even make it less probable. How does the fact that many of the Bolshevik leaders were Jewish demonstrate that the Holocaust didn’t happen?

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Anon
  125. @Ron Unz

    Unz, what is the best way to contact you directly?

  126. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Slave labor”? You mean the same “slave labor” that the Allies used?

    Jews were not “worked and starved to death.” there no proof.

    Using your logic, why would German starve to death their valuable “slave labor”?

    http://www.codoh.com

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @cassandra
  127. @Ron Unz

    ‘…He came across as being quite credible to me. For those who agree, I’d recommend buying his short book, that can be read in just a long afternoon. Among other things, he seems to persuasively estimate that the total Jewish deaths at Auschwitz were something like 99% lower than the traditional figure…’

    I think it may well be true that Auschwitz’s prominence in the Holocaust has been exaggerated.

    There are two reasons for this. First, the Poles and Soviets started out by claiming four million had been exterminated there — and although that figure’s long since been abandoned, we’re still stuck with the paradigm of Auschwitz as extermination camp no. 1.

    Secondly, Auschwitz exists. You can go see it. Want to go see Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor? They’re level fields. There’s nothing there. So Auschwitz continues to be where you go to pay your respects, so to speak. As with the MIA/POW controversy, it’d be awkward to change the story at this point. There needs to be a shrine. Auschwitz is it. ‘Don’t talk shit about Auschwitz!’

    However, and this is important, it doesn’t follow from this that the Holocaust didn’t occur. It — or at least most of it — just happened someplace other than at Auschwitz. That’s all.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
    , @Wally
  128. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    On the “extermination camp”, “slave labor camp” Auschwitz”:

    An “extermination camp” where thousands of Jews chose to stay behind when the Germans left.

    An “extermination camp” where most of the inmates, more thousands, chose to leave WITH the Germans.

    An “extermination camp” where 1,250,000 human remains are supposedly buried, but no one can show us these remains.

    An “extermination camp” where many Jews gave birth.

    An “extermination camp” where the absurdly alleged homicidal ‘gas chambers’ could not have worked as alleged, as proven repeatedly, scientifically impossible.

    An “extermination camp” where fake ‘gas chambers’ were “reconstructed” AFTER THE WAR.

    An “extermination camp” where detailed aerial photos of the period show nothing that is alleged to have been happening.

    An “extermination camp” where there are even obvious, laughable attempts to tamper with aerial photos that make a mockery of the fake storyline.
    see:
    Auschwitz Aerial photos, tampered with to fit the fake story: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669

    An “extermination camp” where there are countless Jew “survivors”.

    An “extermination camp” where so called “survivors” say the most impossible and conflicting things that do not hold up to scrutiny, would be laughed out of a legit court of law.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  129. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    So do we count the Jewish ones as ‘Holocaust victims’ when they probably would have been deliberately murdered anyway simply by being virtue of Soviet P.O.W.’s?

    You right that presenting the Jewish Holocaust as something uniques is incorrect. The Jews were the first group destined for extermination but so were the Russians and other nations of the Soviet Union. It is estimated that approximately 3 millions of Soviet POWs of all nationalities perished in the Nazi captivity. The number is quite comparable to the Holocaust estimate but it is politically incorrect, so it’s hardly ever mentioned in the West.

    Most of those Soviet POW who dies in captivity weren’t Jewish. As I said, most Soviet Jewish soldiers didn’t make it to the camps unless they manages somehow to hide their Jewish identity. Some did, because many Soviet Jews were of mixed blood and did not have an obviously Jewish appearance. So, they could conceal their nationality unless someone betrayed them.

  130. Wally says:
    @Alden

    The fake Anne Frank diary utterly exposed below.

    You’ll love seeing the many different handwritings.

    Anne Frank’s Diary Gains ‘Co-Author’ / and much, much more: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9924

    That’s the same Anne Frank that was transferred out of the alleged “pure extermination camp” Auschwitz to get medical treatment.

    http://www.codoh.com

  131. @utu

    ‘Before the WWII over 3 million Jews lived in Poland. It is believed that approx. 85% of them were ultra Orthodox and Hasidic…’

    This is a constructive line of inquiry. I’m not sure I’m going to agree with wherever you’re going to go with it, but I’m curious to hear more.

    …and indeed and at a minimum, secular Jews would be more capable of blending in with the gentile population and/or finding gentile friends to shelter them and help them out. The religious Jews would have been visibly alien, and exactly what the Nazis had in mind when they were looking for their appointed victims.

    See also Hitler’s Mein Kampf. He mentions that he had met assimilated Jews, and while he professed to regard them with some distaste, he felt no great antagonism. It was the Ostjuden — I assume religious Jews from Galicia et al — who filled him with revulsion and horror.

    As so often, the whole field could do with some exact and disciplined inquiry. I’ve little patience with outright Holocaust Denial, but stuff such as Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners is almost equally useless.

    • Replies: @J. Masterson
  132. @Colin Wright

    Add too that many Jews must have run off into the forests and swamps

    Partisans?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Colin Wright
  133. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    So why haven’t you found your answers from the “Holocaust Industry”?

    All those questions have been easily answered at: http://www.codoh.com
    use the search function

    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
    use the search function

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  134. syonredux says:
    @dearieme

    one explanation immediately suggests itself. (Whether it is anywhere near the mark I have no idea.)

    Perhaps many Germans were not much worried about assimilated German Jews, especially if they were seen as valuable to the military and if unconnected to Bolshevism. Perhaps German hatred was directed mainly at East European Jews.

    I think that there is something to that notion. German Jews were commonly seen as superior to the Ostjuden . You can see something of this attitude in a letter* written by GeneralKommissar for Belorussia Wilhem Kube concerning the treatment of German Jews:

    I wish to ask you personally for an official directive for the conduct of the civilian administration toward the Jews deported from Germany to Belorussia. Among these Jews are men who fought at the front [during World War I] and have the Iron Cross, First and Second Class, war invalids, half-Aryans, even three-quarter Aryans.

    Up to now only 6,000 to 7,000 Jews have arrived, of the 25,000 who were expected. I am not aware what has become of the others. In the course of several official visits to the ghetto I noted that among these Jews, who differ from the Russian Jews in their personal cleanliness, there are also skilled workers capable of doing five times as much in a day as Russian Jews.

    On my own responsibility I will not give the SD any instructions with regard to the treatment of these people, although certain units of the Wehrmacht and the police already have an eye on the possessions of the Jews from the Reich, and has also confiscated various other things. I am certainly a hard [man] and willing to help solve the Jewish question, but people people who come from our own cultural sphere just are not the same as the brutish hordes in this place. Is the slaughter to be carried out by the Lithuanians and Letts, who are themselves rejected by the population here? I couldn’t do it. I beg you to give clear directives [in this matter], with due consideration for the good name of our Reich and our Party, in order that the necessary action can be taken in the most humane manner.

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/trials/profiles/kubeletter.html

    *Yes, Ron, I know that you hate it when I quote anything……

    • Replies: @Wally
  135. @Alden

    And in the process documented many hundreds of deaths from various causes. Often it was ugly stuff, too, but there had been this thing called a war going on, you see.

    I believe it’s fair to conclude from all available evidence that many thousands of Jews died during the war, with typhus being a leading cause. It’s only fitting that we focus exclusively on Jewish deaths, as opposed to the millions of others. Though I’m not quite sure why. The “why” might tell us something about our own society, and our own time.

  136. @for-the-record

    ‘…about 57,500 are survivors from the ghettos, hideouts, labor camps and concentration camps, with 77% of the survivors originating in European countries, a plurality – 32% – from Romania. . .

    An additional 101,000 lived in countries under Nazi rule, of whom 55% were born in North Africa, primarily Morocco, Tunisia and Libya, and some 28,100 were refugees, of whom 76% were born in the Soviet Union, the report found…’

    ! But few of these would be ‘Holocaust survivors’ in any meaningful sense. Most of the 55% born in North Africa merely experienced the temporary loss of their privileged status as French Citizens for two years, while my impression is that while the Romanians engaged in genocidal behavior in the recovered territories of Bessarabia et al, Jews in Romania proper were merely subjected to the usual regime of mildly anti-semitic discrimination. Moreover, inasmuch as Romania never fell under German occupation, unlike Hungary, there’s no reason to think this changed. Finally, the Soviet refugees didn’t necessarily suffer anything that the average Russian didn’t suffer, and so aren’t ‘Holocaust survivors’ in any meaningful sense at all.

    Add that the 186,000 figure would seem to include the many German Jews who got out in good time after losing their business and perhaps getting beaten up by a stormtrooper, and we’ve got a very questionable pool of ‘Holocaust survivors.’ Some of these people would be no more victims than some American white who decided it would be a good idea to move to suburbia in 1972 after a few distressing experiences.

    …which suggests something. Can we demand reparations too?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anonymous
  137. @Colin Wright

    ‘Holocaust survivor’ conjures up images of someone who managed to survive the Warsaw ghetto, or looked into the ovens of Auschwitz.

    As the figures make clear, there were very few of those. Ironically, the very reality of the Holocaust implies that there weren’t many genuine ‘Holocaust survivors’ to begin with, and now, after seventy three years, they must be genuinely few and far between.

    • Replies: @Wally
  138. bucky says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I don’t disagree. the treatment of Jews in Germany is similar to what Trump is doing to Mexicans now. There is this general attitude of disdain towards a certain class of people that emanates from the leadership. those lower down continually push the envelope as to cruel behavior towards the targeted group.

    Mexicans are alleged to be undercutting American labor, just like Jews were accused of destabilizing governments and societies. Increasingly cruel behaviors were enacted on them. We have the family separations on the border going on with Mexicans, and there are even stories of ICE officers unleashing pedophilic tendencies upon Mexican children. This isn’t a result of a master plan handed down by aliens. It is a result of leadership.

    Also, prison populations are used for many heavy labor activities. Many inmates are tasked with firefighting. They are the lowest population in America, are heavily minority, and while there is significant truth to the allegations made against them, their ill treatment comes from a collective attitude of disdain.

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Troll: utu, Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Alden
  139. One thing, among propaganda left & right, seems to be neglected: sheer number of prominent Jews (or people of Jewish extraction) who perished during WWII. If we can say, with certainty that:

    1. great mathematician Felix Hausdorff was a victim of “racial” persecution: http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Hausdorff.html

    Bonn University requested that the Hausdorffs be allowed to remain in their home and this was granted. By October 1941 they were forced to wear the “yellow star” and around the end of the year they were informed that they would be sent to Cologne. Bessel-Hagen wrote that he knew this was (see [24] and [6]):-

    … a preliminary to deportation to Poland. And what one hears concerning the accommodation and treatment of Jews there is completely unimaginable.

    They were not sent to Cologne but in January 1942 they were informed that they were to be interned in Endenich. Together with his wife and his wife’s sister, he committed suicide on 26 January. He wrote to a friend on Sunday 25 January (see [24] and [6]):-

    Dear Friend Wollstein
    By the time you receive these lines, we three will have solved the problem in another way – in the way which you have continually attempted to dissuade us. …
    What has been done against the Jews in recent months arouses well-founded anxiety that we will no longer be allowed to experience a bearable situation. …
    Forgive us, that we still cause you trouble beyond death; I am convinced that you will do what you are able to do (and which perhaps is not very much). Forgive us also our desertion! We wish you and all our friends will experience better times
    Yours faithfully
    Felix Hausdorff

    On the night of Sunday 25 January all three took barbiturates. Both Hausdorff and his wife Charlotte were dead by the morning of the 26 January. Edith, Charlotte’s sister, survived for a few days in a coma before dying.

    2. Chekhov’s fiance Dunya Efros was gassed in Nazi CC, after being handed over by Vichy government. She was in her 80s. See, for instance, Rayfiled’s celebrated bio: http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=490A9DAACAF1878F0798ACB15CA67D4D

    3. Kafka’s sisters all perished.

    https://www.butterfliesintheghetto.com/?tag=franz-kafkas-family

    Another fact that is seldom mentioned about Franz Kafka is that his closest sister ended up in Terezin. Franz’s three younger siblings, his sisters Ellie, Valli, and Ottilie all died in the Holocaust.

    4.Freud’s sisters

    http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/freud.html

    Freud’s Sisters and the Holocaust

    Freud’s sisters

    Three of Freud’s sisters Marie, Pauline Winternitz, and Rosa Graf-Freud were deported to Treblinka, on Transport Number BQ on the 23 September 1942 and murdered, in the gas chambers.

    An eyewitness has recorded that one of Freud’s sisters, possibly Rosa, approached SS- Untersturmfuhrer Kurt Franz on the ramp and asked “to be given lighter walk on account of her poor health.”

    Franz “assured her that her arrival in Treblinka was a mistake, in view of her poor health and that as soon as she had had her bath, she would be put on the first available train back to Vienna. “

    Freud lost another sister Adolfine who was born in 1862 in Vienna. Deported to Theresienstadt she died on the 5 February 1943 from internal haemorrhaging.

    So-if those “famous” (or relatives & acquaintances of the “famous”..) simply vanished into the night, and we know about them- what about vastly numerous “others” ?

    I am against all brainwashing & taboos, but hard-core holo-deniers, whichever their motives, seem to me a bunch of lunatics not worthy to be bothered about.

  140. Wally says:
    @utu

    Yawn, the old ‘where did they go’ canard by faker utu*.

    Jews & their “Holocaust Industry” say that ’6M Jews & 5M others’ went to huge mass graves, they claim to know the exact locations of these alleged enormous mass graves, yet they cannot show us the alleged massive human remains. Hapless utu cannot show us either. LOL

    recommended:
    See here, some links about Jews being moved around, & much more.:
    ‘J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’
    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    Postwar locations of Jews? Child’s play:
    “That shitty little country” Israel, US, S. America, Australia, wherever Jews are.

    After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering survivors’ testimonies had to go to nearly SIXTY different countries to record the said “testimonies” on video.

    https://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2009/03/alleged-holocaust-of-jews-is-proving.html

    * See the bizarre unhinged shill utu slapped own on his laughable ‘gas chambers’ claim: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/ comment 429

    http://www.codoh.com

  141. @Che Guava

    It is worth noting that Schindler’s List is classified as fiction.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  142. @Bucky

    No one denies that a substantial number of Jews were killed in WW2 (along with many, many more non Jews) or that Hitler and the National Socialists singled out Jews for mistreatment (whether justified or not is an entirely different topic).

    But the real issue is the fact that so much of what we’ve been told about the holocaust is obviously lies and exaggeration and that Jews and Israel have both profited handsomely from these lies and exaggerations.

    This would be like me setting up a GoFundMe for my cancer treatment and then telling you that actually I just have the flu…….but I’m still sick so I should be able to keep the money.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @bucky
    , @Wally
    , @Amber Dekstris
  143. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    although here Hitler would have to share hangman’s honors with Stalin, who did at least as much to get so many killed as Hitler did.

    Actually, he didn’t – Stalin, I mean. Stalin was just an apprentice by comparison. According to the latest research, the number of people executed from 1924 to 1953 is slightly above 800,000. The whole number gone through the Gulag system is about 4 millions – and this number includes criminals, collaborators, traitors, not just political prisoners.

    This number was first reported to Khrushchev by the Chief of KGB in 1953. This means that Khrushchev knew the real situation full well when he put out a lie about “12 million executed” to defeat his political opponents.

    The 800,000 is a number well supported by the documents as well as numerous testimonies. Also, the “Memorial” society has been trying for more than a quarter of a century to list every prisoner of Gulag by name, but their list never exceeded 2 millions. Again, the numbers are politically incorrect, so the Western sources keep pretending they doesn’t exist.

    As you see, Hitler did a better job and did it a lot faster, too.

    • Agree: Cyrano
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Colin Wright
  144. anarchyst says:
    @for-the-record

    The latest jewish “holocaust ™” swindle is that of the “holocaust ™ transference syndrome” where (only) jewish “holocaust™ memories are transferred to their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and even to unrelated persons. This claim by two jewish psychiatrists is gaining traction among jewish “holocaust ™” promoters in order to “keep the dream alive” and to “keep the reparations and shekels flowing”. You see, these children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and other unrelated individuals are also seen as jewish “holocaust ™” survivors, worthy of reparations and special treatment.
    When will it end?
    NEVER…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  145. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Nope, there are claims of upward to 1,000,000 “survivor$”.
    Many claimed to have ‘witnessed’ the impossible gas chambers’.

    Former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the camp gas chamber at least six times…maybe children resist better, I don’t know.

    – Gazette, Montreal, Canada, August 5, 1993

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  146. bucky says:

    I think you’re going at it all wrong.

    As Greg Johnson has put it, the lesson to be gleaned from the Holocaust is that forced multiculturalism leads to strife which on the extreme end results in atrocities like the Holocaust, and WWII in general, which did ultimately lead to a genocide of ethnic Germans, a tarnishing of the German culture, and a divided country for fifty years. This was their own agency, not anyone else’s.

    The way towards peace is to recognize group differences which exist in people, and live and let live. Good fences make good neighbors Let people make their own choices as to who to associate with, who to do business with. You can’t ever “eliminate racism” rather the goal of a ruler should be to not inflame racism by enacting policies which will lead to backlash.

    • Replies: @Wally
  147. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Thank you very much for all these great articles you have written over the last several months (and before) and your comprehensive research into all these diverse and controversial subject matters, Mr. Unz.

    I read the entire article right way last night after I saw it published. You have an incredible and rare talent to write about complex topics in great detail and at the same time keep your writing flowing and easily comprehensible.

    I’m very glad and grateful that you are dedicating more of your time and talent to writing again.

    P.s.: The formatting of the Unz Review Video homepage is off again, i.e., the side menu is moved to the bottom of the page: https://www.unz.com/video/

    P.p.s.: We had a very detailed discussion on the Holocaust, etc. in the following Unz Review comments threads for any readers and commenters who have not yet made up their mind on the Holocaust, Hitler, etc. and might be interested to get more information:

    Auschwitz: The Dwindling Death Toll

    510.000 persons according to Fritjof Meyer (2002), of whom 356.000 were gassed Jews.[35] – http://vho.org/tr/2003/1/Faurisson17-23.html Archived link: http://archive.is/huN3E

    Various numbers of victims of the Auschwitz concentration camp as claimed by official authorities and historians:
    Second column from the right: the lowest estimate so far by Fritjof Meyer. Right-most column: maximum figure according to revisionist opinion (ca. 150,000). You have the free choice! At most one of these figures can be correct, but all the rest may potentially incite to hatred, and uttering them can lead to criminal prosecution in many European countries. But most importantly, it is considered highly offensive, if not outright illegal in those countries to make such compilations in the first place![40]
    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2391562

    The Wrong Family Holocaust Story: Survival of Polish Jews in Stalin’s Russia

    Source: https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2393330

    [MORE]

    More highly interesting information from the same very knowledgeable commenter “michael mills”
    […]
    According to the 1940 report by Karski mentioned above, there was a transit camp at Belzec in December 1939. Its purpose was to hold Jews who were trying to cross from the German Zone of Occupation into the Soviet (at least 300,000 Jews from the German Zone made that crossing in the months after the German conquest of Poland).

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2395448

    But similar to Dorpat, Vinnai explains the destructive potential in Hitler’s psyche not so much as a result of early childhood experiences, but rather due to trauma that Hitler had suffered as a soldier in World War I. Not only Hitler, but a substantial part of the German population was affected by such war trauma. Vinnai then leaves the psychoanalytical discourse and comments on social psychological questions, such as how Hitler’s political world view could have emerged from his trauma and how this could appeal to large numbers of people.
    […]
    Understanding Madmen: A DSM-IV Assessment of Adolf Hitler

    https://www.uccs.edu/Documents/dsegal/DSM-Assessment-of-Hitler-IDR-2007.pdf

    It was an unexpected finding that the PTSD scale was so highly elevated. The consensus mean T score (76) was the highest of all the Axis I scales, and two of the four raters saw Hitler three standard deviations above the normative mean while two others rated him above two standard deviations. Even the rater with the lowest T score was a full standard deviation above the normative mean.

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2388131

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  148. Anonymous [AKA "iuztrg"] says:

    According to public survey data, even as far back as 1995, some 97% of Americans knew of the Holo.caust, far more than were aware of the Pearl Harbor attack or America’s use of the atomic bombs against Japan, while less than half our citizenry were aware that the Soviet Union had been our wartime ally.

    Yes, well, contrary to ‘The Holöcaust’ they didn’t ‘kill’ ’6 Million of The J€ws’ (who later mysteriously reappeared in Isräel).

  149. DFH says:
    @Sparkon

    Mr. Unz should upload the back issues of this. I want to find out what ‘I cracked the Reds’ Lust Capital’ is all about.

    • LOL: Dr. Krieger
  150. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “…most of your cited facts do nothing to disprove the reality of the Holocaust or even make it less probable.”

    — What is unclear about this well-documented fact? –“the Nazi-Zionist economic partnership of the 1930s, with Nazi officials traveling to Palestine as honored Zionist guests and leading Nazi newspapers praising the Zionist enterprise… — Germans wanted the Jews to relocate to Palestine.
    — Also, have you read the above article and comments? For instance, comment 46: “Despite unfair limitations imposed by pro-prosecution judges on the defense team, Zündel’s defense team destroyed the traditional narrative in two separate trials. The prosecution eyewitnesses all fell apart on cross-examination, and Hilberg was forced to admit that he not only relied on a single untrustworthy document for his account on Auschwitz, but that he concealed the problems in his source material from his audience.” — Or you want us to believe the “research” of the hysterical dim-wit Deborah Lipstadt?

    “How does the fact that many of the Bolshevik leaders were Jewish demonstrate that the Holocaust didn’t happen?”
    — The same way the Jewish Lobby has sequestered the documentary “Two Hundred Years Together” to cover the enormous crimes by the Jewish Bolsheviks against Russian people, the tribal zealots have been preventing any research of the foundations of Holo-biz. This alone suggests that the Holo-biz is based on lies and more lies. Considering the persecution of the honest historians by the Jewish bandit-devotees of Holocaustianity and the blatant violation of the First Amendment under the pressure from Jewish zealots, it is now the responsibility of the Holocaustians to present the facts that would support their claims on special victimhood aka Holocaust.

    In short, “One naturally wonders whether all these established scholars [Franz Neumann and Hannah Arendt] may have quietly known something that a naive young doctoral candidate such as Hilberg did not.”

  151. @Colin Wright

    Majdanek is still standing. Furthermore, it is very close to the Lublin city center. I reached it a few years ago by taking a city transit bus that barely took 10 minutes from the center. Strange place to locate a supposed extermination center so close to a major city.

  152. Wally says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    We see no proof they were murdered. I can cite claims of and “eyewitnesses” to witchcraft & sea monsters too. That hardly makes them true. Science over propaganda & religion,

    Did the occasional Jew commit suicide? Maybe & so what? Mental illness has always been a problem.

    But then “Holocau$t Industry” Jews say that they all went to immense mass graves and that that the human remain exist in known locations, but those remains do not exist. Therefore what you claim are necessarily lies. Pretty basic stuff, really.

    We note that you do not name the alleged “eyewitnesses”, nor do you tell us exactly what they said, where & when. Telling.

    You mentioned Treblinka:
    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains can be shown
    photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg.It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
    Does anyone see any “corpses”? LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Alden
  153. Truth says:

    The ridiculous Holocaust myth was not a war on Khazars by the Germans, but a war on Germans by the Khazars.

  154. Antiwar7 says:
    @Che Guava

    Don’t feel bad! We all make mistakes, including me. We should always remember that. Yours was very minor.

  155. utu says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    This would be like me setting up a GoFundMe for my cancer treatment and then telling you that actually I just have the flu…….but I’m still sick so I should be able to keep the money.

    Excellent analogy.

  156. Wally says:
    @syonredux

    Naturally we see no original, authentic German document, only English text by who knows who.

    Try that in a legit court of law.

    The Kube canard crushed here:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=kube
    and:
    ‘Irrefutable Response’ Falls Flat, book review by John Weir
    https://codoh.com/library/document/2590/

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @syonredux
  157. Alden says:
    @Wally

    It’s not lifting anything. It’s dumping a load

  158. Wally says:
    @bucky

    Except that until those like Greg Johnson realize that the ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are fake & impossible scams, there will never be peace.

    The impossible ‘holocaust’ is used by Jews & their leftist shills for just about everything to their advantage.
    And that advantage is why it was conjured up in the first place.

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @bucky
  159. syonredux says:
    @Wally

    The Kube canard crushed here:

    What exactly is the “Kube canard”? And how exactly has it been crushed?

    Naturally we see no original, authentic German document, only English text by who knows who.

    Try that in a legit court of law.

    Have people questioned the authenticity of the letter?

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    , @Wally
  160. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    said:
    “As you see, Hitler did a better job and did it a lot faster, too.”

    So, that’s why you cannot present proof? LOL

    This is your big chance. Why do you dodge challenges to your claims?

    We know why.

    It’s amazing how simple it is to slap down lies, just ask for proof.

    http://www.codoh.com

  161. bucky says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    How many people really still care about it? I can’t remember the last holocaust movie that came out.

    You know, Hitler’s approach and the Nazi party approach was completely the wrong way to go about it. Dualities require an opposing force. To this day, Jews practically worship Hitler, and will deploy his image for local election ads.

    Disputing the reality of the event is kind of a petty thing to do. The approach shouldn’t be to dispute the reality, it is to dispute the significance. And amends have been made, and you know what? Many of those amends were legitimate. But they’ve been made.

    Acknowledge the error. Move on. That is how to go about it.

    Sure, several million were killed in the context of a war. The lesson should be to not to go war so that such deprivations happen. That actually is Pat Buchanan’s take on it, and he’s got it right. He doesn’t dispute that some sort of mass killing occurred. His take is that if the United States hadn’t entered WWII, the deprivation which led to the killing of Jews and other minorities would not have occurred.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Wally
  162. Wally says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    said:
    “No one denies that a substantial number of Jews were killed in WW2”

    Really?
    How were they supposedly “killed”?
    How many are considered “substantial”?
    Where is your proof they were “killed”?

    We’re talking about an alleged massive crime, physical proof, forensics required

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  163. Alden says:
    @bucky

    I used to be a Probation Officer. I knew guys who’d lived in the fire fighting camps. When they got sentenced again they hoped to be sent to a firefighting camp. They have to speak and understand English to fight fires so they’re mostly black.

    California inmates love the fire fighting camps. They live in nice outdoor camps in the mountains. They have pets although they aren’t supposed too.

    They don’t fight fires as a regular job, just when there are fires. They do most of the work in the camps. They have classes in all sorts of trades and occupations. Unfortunately, they can’t get jobs when they get out because evil American liberal capitalists only went illegal Hispanics for most jobs

    Getting accepted into the camps is difficult. They need a record of good behavior and ability to follow instruction and cooperate with fellow fire workers.

    The camps are open. They can walk away easily. But they don’t
    California convicts like those camps and they like the machoness and adrenaline rush of fire fighting.

    They aren’t in much danger because they are’nt skilled and experienced. They live life in the firefighting camps and are proud of being firefighters.

    The cause of American crime is that too many criminals are out committing crimes and too few are in prison.

    • Replies: @utu
  164. @Ron Unz

    Well, it all sounds kind of vague to me. Maybe [Churchill] was referring to …

    Churchill’s memo (11 July 11 1944) records that it was in reference to “Foreign Secretary[ Anthony Eden]’s minute of 6.7.44 replying to M 782/4 of 2.7.44 about the persecution of Jews in Hungary, and the evacuation of Jews from enemy-controlled territory”.

    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/churchill/interactive/_html/wc0213_3.html

    Note that four days earlier on July 7, and one day after Eden’s referenced communication, Churchill also wrote to him to support the request by the Jewish Agency (via Chaim Weizmann) to bomb the rail lines going to Auschwitz.

    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/churchill/interactive/_html/wc0213_2.html

    The Eden document from July 7 presumably discussed the extermination camp at Auschwitz and possibly the German extermination program more generally. By “science” Churchill is probably talking about gas chambers. But the Eden communique and Churchill memorandum 782/4 should be publicly available somewhere, so this part could be checked.

    The bottom line is still the same: Faurrison is a weasel, and Churchill’s book contains a succint statement of the standard Holocaust account as uniquely exceptional, technologically specialized, state-organized murder of Jews.

    • Replies: @bj
    , @annamaria
    , @Felix Krull
  165. bucky says:
    @Wally

    No, Greg Johnson simply is looking beyond Nazism.

    Trying to minimize the crimes and missteps of the Nazi regime is what this is all about.

    The history of the European peoples is not defined by Nazism. Nazism is one extreme outlier, that was caused by an extreme confluence of events. It is not some alien infestation or whatever, which is how it is depicted in so much of popular culture today.

    But the extreme of “Martian Nazis” is also met with the extreme of “innocent Nazis” which is what is going on here too much.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  166. Wally says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    said:
    “Partisans?”

    aka: terrorists in today’s parlance

    Jews were very prevalent among the partisans / terrorists.
    And being illegal, per international law, these non-uniformed combatants were subject to legal executions when caught. Both the Axis & Allied powers executed them when caught.

    But the Zionist game is to claim that those who were legally executed by the Axis powers were ‘holocaust’ victims.

    http://www.codoh.com

  167. phil says:
    @escobar

    Where are the mass graves of bones and/or ash for 5 million people? How were they killed? Gas chambers? Where?

  168. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Secondly, Auschwitz exists. You can go see it. Want to go see Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor? They’re level fields. There’s nothing there. So Auschwitz continues to be where you go to pay your respects, so to speak. As with the MIA/POW controversy, it’d be awkward to change the story at this point. There needs to be a shrine. Auschwitz is it. ‘Don’t talk shit about Auschwitz!’
    However, and this is important, it doesn’t follow from this that the Holocaust didn’t occur. It — or at least most of it — just happened someplace other than at Auschwitz. That’s all.”

    – When cognitive dissonance sets in we often see desperate attempts at ‘holocaust-lite’.
    So what other places did the alleged ‘holocaust’ supposedly occur? We’re waiting. Proof required.

    – Treblinka & Sobibor are really not “level fields.”
    They both contain alleged immense mass graves. Treblinka, an alleged 900,000 Jews, Sobibor, an alleged 250,000 Jews.

    Here are the alleged sites of such claims.

    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.
    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains can be shown
    No immense human remains that are alleged to be in known locations, no ‘holocaust’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  169. utu says:
    @Alden

    The cause of American crime is that too many criminals are out committing crimes and too few are in prison.

    The US has 3.5 higher incarceration rate than Germany had prior to the WWII in 1939 (including konzentration lagers) . Even if Black inmate population was to be excluded from the statistics the incarceration rate still would be higher by factor of two than in Nazi Germany in 1939. Whatever it is about “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave” it creates more crimes and criminals than any Western country in the history of Western civilization and you are saying that not enough is being locked up which is to be expected form the employee of the American Prison Industrial Complex.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Alden
  170. @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘…I am against all brainwashing & taboos, but hard-core holo-deniers, whichever their motives, seem to me a bunch of lunatics not worthy to be bothered about.’

    Hear hear. I certainly don’t think they should be silenced, but to my mind, they rank with the ‘there were no planes on 9/11’ and Israel supporters and ‘blacks are just victims of racism’ and global warming denialists and all the rest.

    As a rule, I don’t even bother to argue with them, and they clog up the forums, but they’re part of the cross to be borne if we’re to have a free society. Those who would silence them worry me more.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  171. Sean says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Well it is possible that older people weakened by lack of food would have almost all died off when forced into overcrowded and dirty conditions, but by the same token they were useless mouths to feed and would not have died fast enough. It would make economic sense to immediately gas them. Every story is some kind of image or lie.

  172. @anarchyst

    ‘…You see, these children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and other unrelated individuals are also seen as jewish “holocaust ™” survivors, worthy of reparations and special treatment…’

    As he himself has pointed out, Norm Finkelstein would emphatically qualify to be included in that group.

    He admittedly hasn’t received reparations, but he’s inarguably been subjected to ‘special treatment.’

    • Replies: @annamaria
  173. Cyrano says:

    Why the fixation on number six in the official “mythology” of the holocaust? Well it’s obvious. As the author himself noted – they were talking about 6 million Jewish victims even prior to the holocaust – pogrom victims or potential victims or what have you.

    That’s the first 6 million. The holocaust is the 2nd 6 million, and as we know today the Jewish population of Israel is 6 million – that’s the 3rd 6 million. And we all know what 3 6’s mean. I mean come on, 666 is the sign of the devil. Do I need to explain more to you?

  174. Wally says:

    FYI:
    This article is now posted at The CODOH Forum for discussion, debate:

    unz.com: !! ‘American Pravda: Holocaust Denial’ !! / join the debate
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11968

    No immense human remains that are alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  175. @Hippopotamusdrome

    ‘Partisans?’

    No doubt in many cases, but as a rule, armed, trained, and organized bodies of Red Army soldiers must have been a greater threat than random groups of fugitives.

    In any case, the Jewish fugitives described being hunted down in Ordinary Men were hardly partisans. They offered about as much resistance as rabbits.

    • Replies: @Dr. Krieger
  176. @bucky

    ‘…Nazism is one extreme outlier, that was caused by an extreme confluence of events. It is not some alien infestation or whatever, which is how it is depicted in so much of popular culture today.

    But the extreme of “Martian Nazis” is also met with the extreme of “innocent Nazis” which is what is going on here too much.’

    Indeed. Ironically, both extremes impose the same hazard. ‘Martian Nazis’ make the whole Third Reich epsiode irrelevant to us, because of course we wouldn’t do anything like that, because we’re decent, rational people, responding to what we perceive as genuine threats. Well, the Nazis didn’t come from Mars, and they were ‘decent, rational people, responding to what they perceived as genuine threats.’

    We can do the same thing they did, and in some places, and in some respects, we already are starting to.

    ‘Innocent Nazis’ poses the same risk, even if for the opposite reason. We aren’t likely to repeat Nazi crimes, because there were no crimes.

  177. @Colin Wright

    Those who would silence them worry me more.

    This certainly is true. As Spinoza had said: In a free society, man speaks what he thinks- and thinks whatever he wishes.

  178. @Wally

    I can’t quantify what I said, and I’m not going to hazard a guess.

    Coincidentally, I’m reading Butz’ book now and the number being tossed around is 1 – 1.25 million Jews killed. “Killed” could mean anything from dying from typhus (as the sainted Anne Frank did, along with many, many non Jews – such were the conditions of war) to hard wartime conditions that took out the very young, the elderly and the sick to outright murder at the hands of National Socialists.

    All I know is that I’ve been fed a massive pile of bullshit my whole life regarding “the holocaust” and I hope I live long enough to see holocaust museums and memorials either bulldozed or turned into monuments to the millions and millions of non Jews who were killed by bolshevism/communism which I’ve now come to see as just weaponized Judaism.

  179. RVBlake says:

    I watched a David Irving presentation on Youtube years ago…Irving stated that re-opened Soviet archives claimed 66,000 deaths at Auschwitz. Irving generously granted the Reds a a 50% margin of error and rounded the figure up to 100,000.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  180. syonredux says:
    @utu

    The US has 3.5 higher incarceration rate than Germany had prior to the WWII in 1939 (including konzentration lagers) . Even if Black inmate population was to be excluded from the statistics the incarceration rate still would be higher by factor of two than in Nazi Germany in 1939. Whatever it is about “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave” it creates more crimes and criminals than any Western country

    You might want to examine role of race:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/race-and-crime-in-america/

    God knows that I have my problems with Ron, but he’s done good work on this topic…..

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @utu
  181. @escobar

    ” By the way, no serious historian has mentioned the “Six Million” figure for years, in Germany and the USA they’ve settled on 5.1 to 5.2 million. The fake memoirs and plagiarized accounts do not change what happened.”

    Examples? I and many others still hear of the 6 million endlessly. I’m sure a sizable number of historians (even Jewish ones) think the number is a million lower, but the 6 million, by most everything I’ve seen, is the widely accepted one.

  182. Moi says:
    @Anonymous

    Nothing but respect for Mr. Unz. It would take intelligence and courage to write this.

  183. Jorge Videla [AKA "jorge videla (BGI volunteer)"] says:

    why are there no commenters who believe lipstadt and believe it was RIGHT?

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    , @Alden
  184. Jewish fatalities were some 99% lower than the widely-believed total. Furthermore, Jewish deaths actually showed a sharp decline once plentiful supplies of Zyklon B arrived

    Can anyone imagine a future world where Zyklon B is recognized as having saved Jewish lives?

    Try our New Improved Zyklon B+, Now with Extra Cynanide! Endorsed by over 6 million Jews! Better living through chemistry from Degussa

    Somehow I think Zyklon B, like DDT, is a permanently damaged brand.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  185. bj says:
    @academic gossip

    The factual holocaust was the fire bombing of German cities,

    incinerating millions of German men, women, and children.

    You are repeating a blood libel against the German people.

    Jews are inverting inverting reality for cash.

    Six million Jews claimed reparations as Holocaust survivors.

    Fake Jewish Holocaust survivors are liars and extortionists.

    You are a liar; have you no shame?

  186. Alden says:
    @utu

    Find my post about Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandel’s book,
    From The Depths.

    He was there in the middle of it all. His opinion is that the communist Zionists worked with the Germans to separate children and teens from their parents. And train them to be good commie zionists and smuggle them by the standard smuggling routes to Palestine to be the work force of the kibbutzes IDF and be the strong militant New Jewish Man of Israel.

    According to Weissmandel the commie Zionist’s were happy to let the Germans do what they wished not just to the religious Jews but to the bourgeois business owners White collar non communist Jews.

  187. bj says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Fifty-five million died in WWII,

    What makes a few Jews so special?

    Have you no shame?

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
  188. red-ice says:
    @anarchyst

    – All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:” 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. Observer & American judge, van Roden

    – Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    Wrong!

    According to Freda Utley’s book, The High Cost of Vengeance – this applies to the “Dachau trials.”, not Nuremberg.

    Chapter 7 quote:

    These were the trials conducted by the United States Army Tribunals (as distinct from the civilian and ostensibly international trials at Nuremberg) of the privates, corporals, sergeants, and junior commissioned officers involved in the Malmedy case; of civilians accused of having lynched Allied airmen shot down during the bombing raids; and of the Germans held responsible for the atrocities committed in the Nazi concentration camps.

    Use the link and keep reading nex few pages;
    https://www.unz.com/book/freda_utley__the-high-cost-of-vengeance/#p_8_13

    • Replies: @Wally
  189. Alden says:
    @utu

    If the American criminals weren’t in prison the crime rate would be much higher and even your criminal loving liberal self might be a victim of crime

    We have more people in prison because we have more criminals. That’s all.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Johan Meyer
  190. Alden says:
    @syonredux

    America has more people in prison because we have more criminals.
    That’s all.

    In the 1950s we had more people in elementary school because we had a high population of 5 to 13 year olds.
    That’s all.

    In 2018 we have more people in nursing homes because we have more 75 to 100 year old people. That’s all.

  191. iffen says:

    It’s a good thing that debunking oil comes in 55 gallon drums.

  192. Tremendous article. Exceptional analysis. Thank you Ron Unz.

    I’ve witnessed the scripted, vaunted, orchestrated, hyper-serious, televised rise of ‘unique Jewish Suffering’ (The Holocaust) and generalized Jewish victimology creep into American life and the American mind for the better part of a century. During this time, American culture has shifted dramatically. This unpopular transformation is still underway. And it is doing harm.

    Our captured nation is speeding into a brave, new, multicultural, Zionist-friendly world of hyper-militarism and economic globalism. Some will win, many will lose.

    Along with the rise pro-Zionist serial warfare abroad is the rise of demographic ‘diversity’ here at home. This is no coincidence. One people’s power and solidarity often grows at the expense of another. This is a strategy of conquest.

    Witness the decline in white status, ‘white privilege’, white cohesion, and even life expectancy of blue-collar and middle-America whites.

    Meanwhile, global Zio-Jewish wealth and power is on a tear; as is Washington’s unparallelled commitment to Israeli ‘security’ and our nation’s ‘unshakable’ (i.e. unconditional) alliance with the ethnic-cleansing, Zionist state.

    Does this seem natural or wise?

    Is Washington’s proclaimed love affair with Israel organic, mutually-beneficial, and morally-sound?–or is it due to other forces: some concocted and many duplicitous?

    Consider also: as America becomes (deliberately) less white and less Christian, Israel (with unconditional US aid and succor) is becoming defiantly ‘more Jewish’–with new laws that elevate and empower Israel’s Jewish majority at the expense of that nation’s native, non-Jewish population.

    Israel’s latest legal decree involving its ‘Jewish character’ amount to a race-based assault on its Arab citizenry. This fact is undeniable.

    In America, such laws would be absolutely illegal and loudly condemned by all, including Jews.

    But few or no prominent Americans dare mention or criticize Israel’s latest step towards absolute Jewish supremacism.

    But what about America alleged commitment to ‘equality’?

    Is not America ‘opposed to racism in all its forms’?

    If America is, as claimed, a nation which allegedly goes to war to protect ‘human rights’, then why does Israel’s discriminatory and supremacist trajectory not register among elite Americans or elite American institutions?

    The silence is deafening. The complicity is embarrassing. And revealing.

    We are not only a nation that lives comfortably with countless myths and fabrications, but some are used to prop up a supremacist foreign power.

    This explains why so many US foreign policies and the ‘values’ which nourish them are ad hoc. Contrived. Made up. Politicized.

    Thus there is no genuine connection or consistency between ‘minority protections’ in the US compared to the routine outrages perpetrated by our steadfast ‘democratic ally’ way over yonder.

    This game of deception involving ‘speech’ is being played out in courts and ministries around the world as well as on global media platforms such as Facebook, Google and Twitter. It’s basically a power struggle.

    Free expression is falling before kosher edicts that protect ‘memory’ (The Holocaust) along with its sustaining fables, libels and myths. Protect the dominant narrative!

    America too has entered a new era. With the decline of Christianity (and the rise of the Jews) has come our new quasi-state religion: Holocaust worship and Holocaust remembrance.

    Holocaust indoctrination is only on in film and on our TVs, it’s in our schools and universities. Dissent is not allowed.

    In addition, there are hundreds of Judeo-centric monuments/museums all over the Western world. These icons are devoted to recording an alleged event that occurred during one cataclysmic war in one region of Europe. You may not deride their meaning, their accuracy, or their significance.

    Once the Jewish experience in Europe during WWII was a mere footnote to the greatest war in human history. Now the reverse is true. The meaning and importance of WWII now pales besides ‘The Holocaust’.

    What’s behind this grand reversal?

    The answer is obvious: organized Jewry.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  193. @EugeneGur

    ‘Actually, he didn’t – Stalin, I mean. Stalin was just an apprentice by comparison…’

    I was referring to their cooperative efforts that resulted in the deaths of about sixteen million Russian soldiers from 1941 to 1945. Obviously, Hitler actually killed most of them, but without stunningly profligate and often outright idiotic Russian tactics, he never could have bagged so many.

    In any case, the point is that either that or Chinese civilian deaths represents the greatest single category of human loss of life in World War Two, not the Holocaust.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  194. utu says:
    @syonredux

    You might want to examine role of race

    I think I did:

    Even if Black inmate population was to be excluded from the statistics the incarceration rate still would be higher by factor of two than in Nazi Germany in 1939.

    • Replies: @Alden
  195. Alden says:
    @bucky

    There’s a new movie. Operation Finale about the kidnapping and trial of Euchmann.

  196. @Svigor

    Yep, that’s the guy who was bragging about having sex with the underage Russian girls.

  197. Art says:

    “Holocaust Denial” is a fait accompli – because the reason behind “the six million lie” has already failed.

    The purpose for telling the lie was to gain sympathy for Jews and Israel. In 1967 it was working – in 2017 it is failing. Jews have squandered their legacy of pity. Except for some Zionist Christians, good will is vanishing.

    Today, average people around the world, see the Jews as unsympathetic. Fascist Jew treatment of the Palestinians darkens the perception of all Jews.

    Not true, a quarter true, half true – it makes no difference, because people have already judged the Jews — and it is not pretty.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    • Replies: @renfro
  198. utu says:
    @Alden

    Or perhaps because we have too many useless parole officers like yourself who can’t do their job.

    • Replies: @Alden
  199. Mike P says:
    @Alden

    I looked around for this book, but can’t find it anywhere (paper or electronically). Would you be in a position to prepare a digitized copy? (I know it’s work, but I have put several books online myself, so I feel entitled to ask.)

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  200. Anonymous [AKA "Altait"] says:

    I think Ron sometimes treats anti-establishment theories too easily.

    It’s not at all strange that many half or quarter Jews populated areas of the German military, such persons were, afterall, half or three quarters German. It was essentially still the Prussian military. This does not mean that the pervading attitude of Nazism wasn’t to desire the removal of the Ashkenazi Jews who had only very recently come to Germany (A fact which I always find missing from discussions of German Jews who now seem to totally dominate German history) and were regarded as an utterly alien and unpleasant force who frustrated the self-determination and interests of the German people. (Not to mention Jewish behaviour which rarely engenders much affection from outgroups) And that under capitalism, they could have deeply destabilising effects. How that was to be achieved certainly didn’t only involve murder as the well-documented efforts to make life unpleasant and encourage Jewish emigration.

    So I don’t find the idea that the Nazis didn’t want Jews gone as much as possible from Germany and were only acting in response to Communism to hold much water.

    I do think it’s impossible to argue that the holy 6 million number is unquestionable. As Ron mentioned, there is no solid documentation and the number 6 million was thrown around pre-war and during WWI by Jewish organisations who had little qualms about yellow press and nobody has ever really given a good reason for that number. (Such a number is the upper limit of the number of Jews in Central/Eastern Europe) It’s unquestionable that the entire field of Holocaust studies can be folded into Economics, Gender Studies and Sociology for being utterly worthless by academic standards and totally concerned with political advocacy. But it’s also unquestionable to see that the large Jewish communities that existed in many places in central and Eastern Europe (Though they had themselves exploded in number only recently at the time) were largely gone after the war and it couldn’t be accounted for just by emigration to the US and Israel.

    As for why it wasn’t of interest for the Allied leaders in their books. I haven’t read them, but do they give much mention to the mass deaths from the famines in the Netherlands, Greece, Ukraine, Russia or Norway? Probably not, because they had little to do with them (Or in the case of Churchill, were caused by him) and were largely footnotes in regards to an account of the actual war. The Holocaust has the added bonus of taking place in the Eastern front. The fact that the Holocaust was probably smaller in scale also helps to explain their indifference. As does the likely antipathy all 3 leaders had towards the Jewish ethnic lobbies in their countries.

    • Replies: @Unstremian
    , @Wally
  201. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:

    Wikipedia entry on Arthur Butz:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz

    According to the Anti-Defamation League, many of Butz’ arguments were thoroughly debunked in Deborah Lipstadt’s 1993 book Denying the Holocaust, and in John C. Zimmerman’s 2000 book Holocaust Denial: Demographics, Testimonies and Ideologies.[9]

    • LOL: Mike P
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Wally
  202. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Typo: I read the entire article right *away* last night after I saw it published.

    This is a very good talk on historical revisionism by Jonathan Bowden:

    Revisionism:
    Left & Right, Hard & Soft

    November 3, 2007

    [MORE]

    Now this talk which I’m going to give on Revisionism, Left and Right, hard and soft, could be construed in the future as a dangerous talk, because the Chancellor of contemporary Federal Germany would like to extend, as a particular remit of the constitution/treaty which is being negotiated at the present time, the idea that revisionist laws—or more accurately, anti-revisionist laws—that exist in certain Continental societies which have allegedly “known Fascism” at a particular period, be extended to this society and to all other EU access states, including a great wave of Eastern European countries who of course have acceded to the Union in recent years.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2012/05/revisionism/ Archived link: http://archive.is/1DNvO

  203. Alden says:
    @anarchyst

    The published diary was ghost written by American author Meyer Levin and he proved it in his breach of contract lawsuit. His attorney supeonaed Frank’s original work that purported to be Anne’s diary A comparison showed that the book published as Anne’s Diary was significantly different from the diary Otto allegedly retrieved after the war.

    The courts findings were that Levin, not Anne wrote the book published as The Diary of Anne Frank. Levin was awarded the $50,000 Frank promised but it was never collected. There were many hearings

    I gather you don’t believe me. The case was

    Meyer Levin vs Otto Frank Et Al Supreme Court of New York Special Term NY County NY 41130 150 NYS

    Go to any NY legal data base to find it.

    Or don’t and go on claiming I’m lying or whatever you’re claiming.

    • Replies: @renfro
  204. Alden says:
    @Alden

    Only thing I can suggest is to check a college library. If that fails ask the Library of Congress to send you a copy and you can put it in a 3 ring binder.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the book has disappeared from college libraries.

  205. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    Lipstadt is a Jewish liar. Butz was a professor of chemical engineering which is gas engineering. His books is strictly from an expert engineering point of view.
    Wikipedia even 5 th graders are told not to rely on it. And ADL??? Founded to defend the right of a Jew to rape and murder a 12 year old

  206. Kelso says:

    Bravo!!
    I have read most of the books cited in this article and agree with the summary and conclusions.
    The Holocaust is a hoax intended to justify the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
    If you drive a stake in the heart of the Holocaust, Zionism, a racist, terrorist ideology, is defeated.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  207. trupright says:

    My doubts regarding the so-called Holocaust began with one thought. Why would anyone use poison gas to kill large numbers of people in the middle of a massive labor camp? The gas would have to be vented somehow to supposedly allow bodies to be collected and where would this lethal gas go? WWI showed how dangerous gas could be even to those using it and why would the very intelligent Germans run the very great risk of having the released gas kill slave laborers or even German soldiers in the camp. Nonsense. Obviously the lie about gas was to make it appear that the Germans looked upon the Jews as vermin, as lice, as insect-life which poison gas was used upon.

    Once you take even a few seconds to think about this one fact, then the Holocaust quickly turns into the Holohoax.

    Germans could have easily used simple water to drown the Jews in the showers with no risk at all and could even reuse the water. But this method somehow escaped the Germans’ minds.

    Israel should be completely defunded to repay for this criminal hoax and all the dishonest museums of the Holocaust should be flattened and salt spread upon them.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wally
    , @tac
  208. Alden says:
    @utu

    My job was to argue for the longest possible sentences to protect POS liberals like yourself from criminals.

    And I did my job.

    More criminals in prison, the less crime on the outside.

    • Replies: @utu
  209. annamaria says:
    @academic gossip

    the “state-organized murder” was an invention of the Jewish Bolsheviks. Unlike the extortionist schema of holo-biz, the barbarian slaughter of Russians by the Jewish KGB’ activists and the Jewish murderers in GULAG is well-documented. Time for Russians to demand reparations from the Jewish bankers worldwide.
    Samples:
    “Naftaly Frenkel was born in Haifa… Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag. One of Frenkel’s innovations in the labor camps is the “you-eat-as-you-work” system or the “nourishment scale”. This system resulted in a high death toll in the camps.” https://tarbaby.wordpress.com/2017/07/22/gulags-frenkels-efficiency-system/
    “Lazar Kaganovich was one of a small group of Stalin’s top sadists pushing for very high rates of collectivization after 1929. He became Stalin’s butcher of Christian Russians during the late 1920s and early 1930s when the Kremlin launched its war against the kulaks (small landowners who were Christians) and implemented a ruthless policy of land collectivization. The resulting state-organized forced famine, was a planned genocide and killed 7,000,000 Ukrainians between 1932 and 1933, and inflicted enormous suffering on the Soviet Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan.” https://rense.com/general11/stal.htm

  210. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    Think the immense trauma that the Jewish Bolsheviks have inflicted on several generations of Russians.

  211. @syonredux

    I believe he refers to existence of a communication between Kube and Himmler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Kube#SS_career

    Hardcore revisionists like Hannover won’t accept any evidence for the mass killings of civilians by German forces (outside, perhaps, reprisal shootings), and so must dispute all the documentary evidence for the Einsatzgruppen, police battalions, etc. on the Eastern front.

    Wiser revisionists concentrate on the gas chamber stories.

    • Replies: @Wally
  212. Alden says:
    @utu

    Germans are a notoriously docile law abiding ethnic group, even the descendants of Germans who migrated to the USA S America Russia Poland and other countries

    We Americans are not. Irish and Scots rebels and border bandits crazy puritans, slave traders, moon shiners old country mafia who established mafias as soon as they arrived isolated farmers who fought off Indian raids.

    The conquest of Indian terrority was done more by civilian settlers than the army. Look at how many of us have guns.

    • Replies: @fnn
  213. unseated says:
    @Johnnie Walker Read

    It has been pointed out here many times before that that quote is not from Voltaire but Kevin Alfred Strom. While its content may have some validity, using a quote from Strom is probably not a good idea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom

  214. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    This piece evokes controversy without answering many questions. It fails, for example, to define the Holocaust, so leaving unclear the meaning of the central issue, namely Holocaust denial. According to my Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, 2nd Edn., 1974, the Holocaust was the systematic destruction of over six million Jews before and during WW2 by the Nazis. So does that make the Jewish Holocaust scholar, Raul Hilberg, who estimated just over five million Jewish victims of the Nazis, a Holocaust denier?

    And it would have been useful also to know how the Holocaust is defined in statutes of governments that have made Holocaust denial a criminal offense. Who knows, but that anyone of us, by a casual remark here, could become liable to prosecution while traveling abroad, or even while staying home in Canada.

    It would have been useful had the question of the gas chambers and Zyglon B been put in perspective. Some people seem to think them essential to the concept of the Holocaust and its denial, yet as WoO remarks above, the Germans were short of labor and of food, so what more reasonable assumption than that they put Jews, and others, to work as slave labor on starvation rations, leading to the death of many by starvation and disease. So one would like to know whether denial of mass killings with Zyglon B, an agent developed for the delousing soldier’s clothing, constitutes Holocaust Denial.

    Concerning the rise of Holocaust awareness, the author mentions that it did not emerge as a significant issue until long after the war. It is the case, however, that there were those pushing the story very soon after the war. Thus, I remember, in 1953, while at the age of 10 and travelling with my parents on an ocean voyage, being told by a boy of about my age, that the Germans had gassed six million Jews.

    In evaluating the evidence of the Holocaust, some comment on Solzhenitsyn’s claim, which seem to corroborate Hilberg’s conclusion that most killings of Jewish civilians during WW2 were by open-air shootings in Eastern Europe, would have been of interest. Solzhenitsyn’s numbers more or less match Hilberg’s, so are we to suppose that both a life-long Jewish scholar of the Holocaust and a Nobel Prize winning novelist are both completely deluded? If not, how can the Holocaust, i.e, the direct or instigated murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis be so easily dismissed?

    What I do find disquieting in this account of Holocaust denialism is the evidence it provides of punishment of those in both Europe and North America who, having researched the issue, came to conclusions that conflict with the claims of known liars such as Eli Wiesel, and have as a consequence, had their careers and livelihood’s destroyed. So much for American leadership of the Free World.

  215. @RVBlake

    Those were the so-called Death Books. They didn’t cover the entirety of the camp’s existence. Using these and other documents, Carlo Mattogno estimated the total number of deaths of registered Auschwitz inmates was in the region of 130,000, of which about half, I believe, would have been Jews.

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
  216. Imho Ron Unz has earned a Nobel Prize for Peace due to his relentless pursuit of truth.

    This article is long and I have yet to read the second half but Unz not only challenges the official story and inflated #s of the ‘holocaust’ he addresses a fundamental fact: Jews, despite being the most murderous group of the 20th century-bolshevik russia-have been portrayed as victims. How? As the essay outlines, via a propaganda campaign.

    Incredible.

    Again, thank you for your courage Mr Unz and your example. The truth only dies if we let it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  217. @jilles dykstra

    He heeft dat boek niet geleest.

    A Nation on Trial defends the German Nation against the charges in Hitler’s Willing Executioners, within the framework of the Holocaust.

  218. utu says:
    @Alden

    The problem with the CDC is that they hired too many simpletons like yourself.

  219. @Alden

    Rubbish. A quick estimate of relative incarceration versus crime may be found by comparing the ratios of incarceration rates to murder rates by country. IIRC USA ranks about 75th percentile in incarceration per murder.

    Also, see chapter 3 of “The rich get richer, the poor get prison” (8th edition, at least)—nine in ten anonymously surveyed USAns admit to felonies, which they quite often do not even recognize as such.

    • Replies: @Alden
  220. @Johan Meyer

    Bloody auto-error insert. “Je” not he.

  221. Wally says:
    @dearieme

    fact:
    Erhard Milch was not a Jew.

    His mother re-married a Jew after Milch’s birth.

    http://www.codoh.com

  222. @Colin Wright

    Hunting rabbits is no cake walk. Ask Elmer Fudd.

    • LOL: Colin Wright
  223. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @trupright

    Easily used water in the showers to drown the Jews? Easy really? Did you do experiments with your cats perhaps? Or just blather?

    And what’s the problem with the right gas used the right way like someone shutting a room while setting off an insect killing bomb?

    • Replies: @Alden
  224. Wally says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    You curiously ignore the many before Unz which have put their asses on the line, were imprisoned, physically attacked, house fire bombed, driven from their jobs, persecuted, stalked, on & on.

    But now, Unz being a Jew, we see praise for the truth bringers.

    Ron deserves praise, but he’s late to the party.

    It’s men like Germar Rudolf, Bradley Smith, Dr. Robert Faurisson, Juergen Graf, Carlo Mattogno, Ernst Zundel. Joseph Bellinger, etc., etc., that deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.

    http://www.codoh.com

  225. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    said: “yet as WoO remarks above, the Germans were short of labor and of food, so what more reasonable assumption than that they put Jews, and others, to work as slave labor on starvation rations, leading to the death of many by starvation and disease. So one would like to know whether denial of mass killings with Zyglon B, an agent developed for the delousing soldier’s clothing, constitutes Holocaust Denial.”

    There were no starvation rations, the Germans ate same as the workers ate. There was a breakdown of food & medical supplies near the end of the war due toillegal Allied terror bombing / strafing of transports into the labor sites. see: The Nazis and SS shared their food with the Jews: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6040

    To repeat, per your absurdly alleged immense shootings / ‘Holocaust by Bullets’, the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    There were NO homicidal ‘gas chambers’, period. For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at: http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly
    and:
    The Rudolf Report / Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html
    and:
    ‘Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz and Birkenau’ by Master Chemist Germar Rudolf: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html
    and:
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    I suggest you actually do some reading of this thread before you post.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Alden
    , @CanSpeccy
  226. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:

    If Germany was able to prevail in Europe, Japan was somehow capable of landing troops in California, and both countries were blockading America, what would have happened to all those Japanese in the internment camps? The American government identified and quarantined racial-political hostiles as the Germans and other nations did during the war.

    Sure, they were treated fine when the war was thousands of miles away and America was exporting food, but if push came to shove, if Americans were starving and blockaded, if domestic bases had to be abandoned in the face of an enemy offensive, the Japanese-Americans would probably have been slowly starved out and/or exterminated lest they serve as assets to their captors, similar to what happened in occupied Europe in the later years of the war.

    • Agree: Dr. Krieger
  227. Twinkie says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’ve long held Holocaust Denialism in low regard, but your long and thorough piece has given me much to read and look for myself. You are either insane or courageous… or both.

    As for this:

    Indeed, the fascinating and widely-praised 2002 book Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers by Bryan Mark Rigg notes that aside from Milch, Hitler’s military contained over a dozen half-Jewish generals and admirals and another dozen quarter-Jews of that same high rank, plus a total of roughly 150,000 additional half- or quarter-Jewish soldiers, with a large fraction of these being officers. All of these individuals would have had some fully-Jewish parents or grand-parents, which seems decidedly odd behavior for a regime supposedly so focused on the total eradication of the Jewish race.

    Forget military figures and read about the man who was apparently SS member no. 2 after Hitler himself: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Maurice

    He managed to be an intimate of Hitler, be his driver and bodyguard, stay on as a senior SS officer, and even ”cuckholded” Hitler with his half-niece and rumored lover Geli Raubal, and still somehow survived the war and went right back to his pre-Nazi and pre-war profession… all the while being of Jewish ancestry.

    • Replies: @Wally
  228. @Wally

    I disagree.

    There are several paragraphs in which Unz ties things together viz. the Jews i. Bolshevik Russia and their murderous track record and the ‘holocaust’ and it’s use as a tool of propaganda victimhood etc.

    For a jew to lay out his group s dirty laundry is beyond commendable, considering g how vicious Jews are at enforcement of ‘truth’.

    • Replies: @Wally
  229. Wally says:
    @trupright

    The scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ claims were technically laughable, and you’re right, gassings as alleged would have endangered the entire site.
    see:
    alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewd and demolished here.: http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    You’ll enjoy this:
    Drawn in ‘Auschwitz Jews being marched to gas chambers‘, ON A ROOF.LOL!
    VIDEO classic: Auschwitz Aerial photos, tampered with to fit the fake story : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669&p=87558

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

  230. Alden says:
    @Mike P

    Hi Mike.

    I looked in the UCLA library on line catalog . It’s not there anymore. The library it was in has bathrooms on each floor. A lot of anti communist anti liberal books have been dumped in the bathroom trash cans over the years.

    Gotta fight the fascists you know.

    The book appears as lost for a few years. When they can’t find it they take it off. The books in the forbidden book section like the protocols always show up in the catalog.

    I’ll look in some other college libraries in the area. And the library of Congress catalog I think I can get in it’s catalog.

  231. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    You amount to Holocaust Desecration. Skepticism is one thing. You’re just nuts.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @annamaria
  232. Alden says:
    @Wally

    Historical trivia After the communists destroyed the countryside everybody got on trains to find refuge in the cities or to go as Far East as possible to get to China.
    So Lenin set up delousing stations in many train stations and everybody had to use them. They must have been some kind of body lice, not head lice?

  233. Art says:

    Writing and publishing this article is an act of great courage.

    Mr. Unz is a personage – a public figure. With this article, he is giving that up.

    In Mr. Unz’s intellectual circles, he will be shunned. Friendships will be lost.

    We salute your courage Mr. Ron Unz.

    Thanks!

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @JoeFour
  234. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    David Cole was also accused of being a denier. But he rejected certain details of what happened at Auschwitz. He never denied that there was mass killing of Jews.

    http://takimag.com/article/how_many_jews_can_be_gassed_on_the_head_of_a_pin_david_cole/#axzz5PQZ9W9zt

    As for Auschwitz numbers going down from 4 million to 1 million, people say the Western estimates were never based on those Soviet figures.

    http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-09.html

  235. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally

    “To repeat, per your absurdly alleged immense shootings…”

    Do try to improve your reading comprehension. I cited claims made by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and by Raul Hillberg. I made no claims of my own.

    • Replies: @Wally
  236. Alden says:
    @Mike P

    It’s in the library of Congress the Dewey numbers are D810 H4 W48.

    And it and all his books are in Hebrew. birth & death are 1904 to 1957

    • Replies: @Mike P
  237. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Himmler was a psychopath and the mass-killing of Jews happened for sure.

    But much of the Hollywood and Mass Media coverage of the tragedy is more schmolocaust than holocaust.

    I don’t find it difficult to believe the holocaust happened because similar things happened all over. Turks and Greeks butchered one another. Armenians got slaughtered. Stalin killed million. US dropped two nukes on Japan and was ready to drop 1o or 12 more. Japan went on a bloody rampage in China. Khmer Rouge were psycho. Hussein killed 100,000s. Rwanda was a horror. US mass bombing of Korean and Vietnam were mostly targeted at civilians.

    There were ‘death squads’ used by right-wing regimes in Latin America to terrorize and wipe out entire villages that might be supportive of Marxists. The failed coup in Indonesia in 65 led to anti-communist bloodbath and many Chinese got killed.
    So, it hardly seems surprising that Germany under Hitler and psychopaths like Himmler were capable of carrying out horrors.

    Still, so much of the discussion on the Holocaust isn’t history but propaganda and neo-religion.
    And because rational discussion of the Holocaust isn’t allowed, the ones who tend to be daring enough to counter the narrative happen to be lunatics who are just as nutty as Lipstadt. The difference Lipstadts of the world have all the cards. Still, BS is BS and a lot of Deniers are begin from “I hate Jews” and develop their argument from there.

    • Replies: @phil
  238. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rational

    David Irving would beg to differ. He says millions were killed.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Turpitz
    , @Turpitz
  239. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    If only it were just ‘denial’ that were prohibited. In many places it’s verboten even to ask impertinent questions, and in some places all questions are deemed impertinent.

    Even worse is that these speech laws even spread to arresting people for jokes and comments unrelated to the Holocaust. So, you can get in trouble for saying insulting things about homos and trannies in much of the EU. After Mandela died, some guy in UK was arrested for a joke.

    It began from silencing deniers of genocide to arresting those guilty of irreverence of the idols of PC, esp Jews, homos, and blacks .

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  240. peterAUS says:
    @Colin Wright

    Up to and including

    …That particular question could do with some dispassionate analysis…

    agree.

  241. lysias says:
    @utu

    Von Manstein only got that name through adoption. He was born von Lewinski, and once said that a great great grandfather of his had been rabbi of Warsaw.

  242. peterAUS says:
    @escobar

    ….Yeah, there is a “Holocaust Industry” and the Holocaust has been used and abused to make money and to excuse evil stuff done by Jews–from Wall Street to Tel Aviv. But the core of the Holocaust “narrative” stands…..

    That sums it all up nicely.
    Balance. So lacking everywhere.
    Makes a good “people watching” exercises. Popcorn overeating too, though.

  243. Wally says:
    @red-ice

    Nope, you are wrong. The Nuremberg Show Trials first.

    You simply ignored:
    Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    – U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    ” The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history.”
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @red-ice
  244. peterAUS says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    …I am against all brainwashing & taboos, but hard-core holo-deniers, whichever their motives, seem to me a bunch of lunatics not worthy to be bothered about.

    Don’t say….

    • Replies: @annamaria
  245. @Jorge Videla

    why are there no commenters who believe lipstadt and believe it was RIGHT?

    Funny choice of words there. Maybe everyone either read Ron’s assessment and concurred or they googled (duckduckgoed?) “it” and saw this:

    I think Ron could have saved a thousand words by simply inserting the photo. What do you think?

  246. Thank you for challenging the Holocaust lie, my apologies for not reading the article. I’ll probably get back to it later.
    It’s just too depressing when articles like your own never seem to make any difference to the status quo.
    This is the first headline that caught my eye when I opened up my browser start page this morning.

    https://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=275163

    I’ve been completely convinced the Holocaust story is a lie for years, yet the news media still put out this nonsense as regular as clockwork. The only mainstream newspaper I’ve come across that has allowed me to freely deny the “Holocaust” has been the London “Independent” I believe it’s Russian owned. They have occasional articles that allow their readers full freedom to comment on “holocaust” matters. A breath of fresh air!

    Other than that it’s just too heavy to let myself get upset at what the bastards are getting away with, It makes me so angry, and I’m getting too old to let myself get upset by what they are doing to our western countries.
    Heres a mostly pictorial site to complement your article that does a very good job at disputing the Holohoax nonsense.

    https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com

  247. Mike P says:
    @Alden

    Thank you! I know someone speaking Hebrew, maybe I can get them interested.

    • Replies: @Alden
  248. Wally says:
    @syonredux

    Read what I posted.

    Yes, people have questioned the authenticity of this ‘letter’.

    There is no real German document for this, and that is the case with so much of the claimed ‘documentation’ that simply hasn’t been falsely ‘translated’ into English.
    Crap was just brazenly forged, there’s ton of examples.

    Bring real docs. if you got em.

    http://www.codoh.com

  249. peterAUS says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Good post.
    Especially

    What I do find disquieting in this account of Holocaust denialism is the evidence it provides of punishment of those in both Europe and North America who, having researched the issue, came to conclusions that conflict with the claims of known liars such as Eli Wiesel, and have as a consequence, had their careers and livelihood’s destroyed.

  250. Anonymous [AKA "HarryWitten"] says:

    “I think it far more likely than not that the standard Holocaust narrative is at least substantially false, and quite possibly, almost entirely so.”

    Bravo! After spending years researching the subject I’ve come to the same conclusion, and saying it out loud and in public is way overdue.

    My deepest thanks and admiration to Ron Unz for the work he is doing.

  251. Robjil says:
    @Anon

    He was intimidated to say that. Michael Hoffman in this video talks about how Irving was intimidated. Irving was called Agag. Agag was the last survivor of the genocide of the Amalek tribe (men, women, children plus the destruction of their livestock and property) by Israelites. 500 years later there was a descendant of Agag in Persia, his name was Haman and he was an “enemy” of the Jews of Persia . The Jews in Persia massacred Haman, his ten sons and 75000 Persians (men, women and children) who had Haman connections. This is what the “holiday” of Purim is all about. Irving did not want to be part of that “holiday” so he complied with the wishes of our rulers.

    Perhaps this is why the constant “chatter” for Iran to be attacked in our faux free Zpress. Iran is where the first Purim happened. 2003 Purim the attack on Iraq started. 2011 Purim the attack on Libya started. Will the attack on Iran start on 2019 Purim? It seems to be an 8 year cycle for big attacks in the middle east by the Zwest with Purim being the central theme.

    • Replies: @Wade
  252. @unseated

    Point taken. Thanks for the correction.

  253. Wally says:
    @Henry's Cat

    You mean the letter which no one can produce, that’s means you, just make false claims? LOL

    Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia citation?
    It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet:
    https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    ‘Hannover’? You mean the guy at CODOH who demolishes the claims of shills like you?
    He’ll take your lunch in a heartbeat. LOL

    Still waiting for your proof of illegal ‘mass shootings’ and the alleged immense human remains that are claimed to be in known locations.

    http://www.codoh.com

  254. anarchyst says:
    @Anon

    Since when did the holocaust become a religion, in which no questioning of holocaust dogma is allowed?
    You, my friend, are deluded..
    Monika Schaefer and Ursula Haverbeck are serving “hard time” in German maximum security prisons for daring to question the holocaust…
    WHY??

  255. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Is that why we do not see the alleged ‘debunkings’?
    Talk is cheap and the ADL is certainly all talk.

    per Lipstadt trial:
    It’s claimed that Germans ‘exterminated’ Jews by dumping granules of the pesticide Zyklon-B through four openings / holes or little chimney-like structures that were secured upon the roofs of two gas chambers built alongside crematoriums II & III at Auschwitz/Birkenau.

    photo 1: top of roof of crematorium no. 2Taken January/February 1943 where there are no such ‘little chimneys’ or ‘holes’. Note that the little chimneys are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is ca. 2-3 inches high.
    According to Auschwitz “expert” Robert Jan Van Pelt (who appeared at the Irving/Lipstadt trial), the insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.

    photo 2: underside of crematorium II, post war:

    Notice no such openings / holes exist in the underside of the roof in crematorium no. II (alleged ‘gas chamber’, there is no indication that these opening / holes were filled in.
    more:
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/controversies/holes/Renk151200.html

    http://www.codoh.com

  256. @Anonymous

    “I think Ron sometimes treats anti-establishment theories too easily.”

    Maybe. He for ages had that awful “The Ancient Greeks and Romans Were Nordic” on the frontpage, and eventually listed it as a classic to boot.

    “So I don’t find the idea that the Nazis didn’t want Jews gone as much as possible from Germany and were only acting in response to Communism to hold much water.”

    I don’t think that’s what Unz is arguing. He notes how the authors of early Holocaust literature did not acknowledge the Jewish role in communism at all and instead used more elaborate, esoteric explanations:

    “Since all of these Holocaust books almost totally avoid Hitler’s self-declared motive for his anti-Jewish actions, they are forced to desperately search for alternative explanations, seeking clues buried deep within the German past or turning to psychanalytical speculations or perhaps deciding that what they describe as the greatest massacre in all human history was undertaken out of sheer Nazi wickedness.”

    It definitely wasn’t just Communism though. It was also the wildly disproportionate role Jews played in the Weimar Republic and the infamous decadence and political and economic instability that typified it. I doubt this appeared much in their writings either. Jews during the post war period really did achieve an unparalleled degree of economic, cultural and political power throughout Europe (and North America), and it was very much to the detriment of everyone else (kind of like now.)

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @Colin Wright
  257. Bukowski says:

    The usual smear attached to holocaust revisionists is that they are all “neo Nazis”. Alexander McClelland was an Australian WW2 veteran who served in North Africa and Greece who was captured by the Germans and eventually ended up in Theresienstadt. He became a holocaust revisionist based on what he personally experienced and years of research.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4480
    Here is an interview with Alexander McClelland.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1U3oGMQ8iM

  258. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    said:
    “But it’s also unquestionable to see that the large Jewish communities that existed in many places in central and Eastern Europe (Though they had themselves exploded in number only recently at the time) were largely gone after the war and it couldn’t be accounted for just by emigration to the US and Israel.”

    Another fake strawman, no one says just “US and Israel”. Jews poured out of Europe after the war. Many did not return to their previous places, so what? Jews went where Jews are, all over the world.

    After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering survivors’ testimonies had to go to nearly SIXTY different countries to record the said testimonies on video.
    https://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2009/03/alleged-holocaust-of-jews-is-proving.html

    If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like “what happened to them then?
    After all, Jews say ’6M Jews & 5M others’ went to huge mass graves, Jews claim to know the exact locations of these alleged enormous mass graves to this day, yet Jews cannot show us anything.

    see:
    ‘J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    Imagine in a real / legit court of law where someone claims that millions of people were murdered and dumped into mass graves, but then could not produce the claimed mass graves and the alleged contents. They would be laughed out of that court.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    Next time read what has been posted first.

    http://www.codoh.com

  259. Alden says:
    @Mike P

    You contact the library of Congress and they send you copies. I looked in 8Kos Angelels colleges and LA SF San Jose San Diego public libraries. Nothing Not Stanford

    Five of weissmabdels books are in library of Congress have your friend make sure of the title.
    It’s really so sad even if he exaggerates.
    I knew 5 people who were in the camps. They came to USA and Life resumed

    I found some info about weissmabdel through DuckDuckGo use the full name and check dob and death 1904 1957. His grandson Michael. Is the current Rabbi. It was a whole dynasty of rabbis and their people All gone and lots of Michael Weissmandels

    • Replies: @Mike P
  260. Alden says:
    @Jorge Videla

    Lipstadt’s a well known liar

  261. @Colin Wright

    “It’s also almost comically obvious that the number ‘five million’ was chosen because it’s slightly less than ‘six million’ — there were other victims, but Jews were the biggest victims.”

    In other words, “although millions of others were killed in genocidal actions, the Holocaust is chiefly about Jews.” What Wiesenthal did was, in contrast to “Holocaust Scholars” and such, rather arbitrarily expanded the definition of the Holocaust to include non-Jews who were killed in similar fashions (often times in the same exact camps) for political purposes, but this has never been accepted as the proper definition of the Holocaust by scholars, so it apparently became a popular definition as opposed to those who act as gatekeepers on how it’s defined.

    It’s a really terribly written article that easily leaves the impression Wiesenthal fabricated 5 million extra deaths out of nowhere, when he appended the “traditional” definition of the Holocaust to include other non-Jewish deaths. And the historians interviewed do a terrible job of making this out to not be the case, especially that they aren’t guided by any ethnocentrism in defining the Holocaust as to include only Jews. “Yes, many non-Jews were subjected to genocide, and often in the same locations Jews were, but the Holocaust- the central atrocity of WWII- 100% concerns Jewish deaths.” It’s like they can’t even be really pressed to admit “the Holocaust was one of various genocides in WWII” or something.

    And remember- it didn’t cross a *single* Nazi mind to exterminate all Russians, a group who suffered the highest death toll (in raw numbers) after the Chinese:

    “In fact, he said, the term “genocide” could accurately be applied to the 2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis. But the mass murder of the Poles, Roma and others should not come under the rubric “Holocaust,” a term that Holocaust historians generally dislike because of its religious connotations but nonetheless have accepted as describing only the annihilation that the Nazis hoped to visit on the Jews.

    “All Jews of the world had to be annihilated,” Bauer said. “That was the intent. There was never an idea in Nazi minds to murder all the Russians.””

    • Replies: @Wally
  262. JoeFour says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “…I just glanced through the article.”

    Very poor form to comment without a serious reading of the article. I’d suggest you go back and do so. You might discover your confidence in the authors you have read has been significantly misplaced.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  263. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally

    Look, Wally, if someone questions the Holocaust, which they are entirely free to do so far as I am concerned, they need, if they wish to be convincing, to address the arguments of those who claim that the Holocaust did occur. If they fail to do that, then their argument fails. Giving their critics a URL to follow is like saying, “hey, if you don’t agree with me, go do you own research and prove yourself wrong”, which is an idiotic response.

    And the W of O’s father’s war-time weight loss argues rather strongly against your unlikely claim that the concentration camp occupants were as well fed as anyone in Germany.

    • Replies: @Wally
  264. Alden says:
    @Anon

    Read Earl Butz book. He was a professor of chemical Engineering and knew about how to use gas. He says they didn’t use gas and the gas chambers are fake.

    The Germans sent many people from the occupied countries to Germany to work. They sent working age men. Not children, young teens and old people

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @j2
  265. Wally says:
    @bucky

    said:
    “Sure, several million were killed in the context of a war. The lesson should be to not to go war so that such deprivations happen. That actually is Pat Buchanan’s take on it, and he’s got it right. He doesn’t dispute that some sort of mass killing occurred. His take is that if the United States hadn’t entered WWII, the deprivation which led to the killing of Jews and other minorities would not have occurred.”

    ‘Several million killed’? LOL

    Where’s the proof for that? Simple question.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    http://www.codoh.com

  266. JoeFour says:
    @Art

    “Writing and publishing this article is an act of great courage.”

    Yes!

    May God bless and protect Ron Unz and his family!

    • Replies: @Wally
  267. Alden says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Oh please, I’ve been hearing pro criminal stuff all my life. You don’t know any criminals do you?

    They like it and they like the life. Did you know bank robbery is just the most fun ever? Go running in, scare everybody run out the adrenaline rush getting away with it. It’s fun

    Go reccomend your book to another brainwashed liberal.

  268. Bukowski says:
    @Colin Wright

    A lot of Russian pows did die but Stalin was happy with that. He considered anyone who surrendered to be a traitor to the USSR and deserved all they got. Hitler offered to treat Soviet prisoners according to the Geneva Convention if Stalin would do the same for captured German troops. The Soviet dictator refused.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7627

  269. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    IOW, you do NOT have proof for your impossible ‘holocaust’ claims. Very simple.

    I gave you the right place to find those answers, instead you did nothing to answer your own questions.

    My father lost a lot of weight in the war too, he fought in the Pacific.

    Your fake strawman argument is noted:
    No one said that “concentration camp occupants were as well fed as anyone in Germany”, I said as well as German staff in those camps.

    Try reading what I post.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  270. @Colin Wright

    As so often, the whole field could do with some exact and disciplined inquiry. I’ve little patience with outright Holocaust Denial, but stuff such as Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners is almost equally useless.

    Please, read the two works I cited above. They summarize the arguments from the best sources on each side. They will spring board you into the most technical aspects of the debate.

    There is no shortage of intellectual rigor on the Revisionist side.

    On the other side, it’s more like rigor mortis.

  271. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    Anatoly Karlin just reacted and replied to Mr. Unz’s article:

    Holocaust Exegesis

    There were 3,028,538 Jews in the USSR according to the 1939 Census, but only 2,266,334 in the 1959 one (despite the demographic catastrophe of WW2, even the ethnic Russian population expanded by 15% between these two dates); this was also before the start of Soviet Jewish emigration to the West. Where did they go?

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/holocaust/

    I commented about this here, in great detail:

    The real number of Jews in the former USSR

    https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=233955 Archived link: http://archive.is/rx9gi
    […]
    Here the original in Russian: http://tavrio.ru/index.php/politics/nazpol/42-skolko-evreev-pf Archived link: http://archive.is/EDYeZ
    […]
    “All demographers are wrong. In Russia, there are significantly more Jews than there are specialists.”
    […]
    The number of Jews in different places is two to three times greater than what is indicated in the census data. In Russia, this coefficient is from 2 to 3. And this despite the fact that Jews do not belong to groups with high birth rates. And despite the fact that many are leaving, and the community is aging.
    […]
    So all the tragic predictions about the extinction and disappearance of the Russian Jewish community are greatly exaggerated. The official estimate of the Jewish population of Russia today is four hundred thousand. But it’s funny. Look around! Take the Russian Jewish encyclopedia and make a selection of contemporary politicians. Will you find among them someone who, being a Jew, is recorded as such in the passport? Hardly

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2394694

    This is the explanation, in my opinion and according to my research:

    Maybe instead of dying they just changed status, i.e. they (were made to) register(ed) as just Russians instead of (Soviet Union) Jews
    […]
    the greater part of the decline being attributable to internal processes.
    […]
    Data on the offspring of mixed couples in the Soviet Union show that they tended formally to affiliate with the nationality of the non-Jewish parent. Unlike passport data, which could not be changed, declarations of nationality in the census were variable and unverified.

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2394826

    If I understand these Soviet registration processes and practices properly, depending on whether the extra 2 million Jews that became part of the Soviet Union after those annexations had one or two Jewish parents, they would either be registered/issued a passport stating they were Jewish (two Jewish parents) or Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Polish, Romanian (one Jewish parent) by Soviet authorities.

    If these Jewish populations had even higher intermarriage rates than Russian Jews, which likely could be the case, easily 40% to 50% of the “new” Soviet Jews could “disappear” due to the Soviet passport registration process. Alternatively instead of 2 million extra Jews, it was actually 4 million Jews (one or two Jewish parents) that were added to the Soviet Union through these annexations, but only 2 million (two Jewish parents) were registered as Jewish and the other 2 million (one Jewish parent) were registered as Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Polish or Romanian.

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2394910

    The Sanning book Epilogue by Germar Rudolf makes a similar point:

    All of the following reasons why the number of Jews in a country could have been reduced were simply lumped together as German Holocaust victims:
    […]
    Jews not statistically registered or identified as Jews today – p. 207 “Walter N. Sanning: The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry 2nd edition” http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=29

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @Wally
    , @j2
  272. Anonymous [AKA "Holodenier"] says:
    @Anon

    He specifically says “Die Judenevakuierung” – “The Jew-evacuation”. In other words, military lingo for deportation. The Holocaust-promoters who put up this speech have then translated the word “Ausrottung” into “extermination” to give the impression that Himmler is using an euphemism, but “Ausrottung” doesn’t have to imply killing. Himmler then goes on to say that this deportation of Jews (“Judenevakuierung”) has caused a lot of dead Jews, but that is not in dispute.

  273. Wally says:
    @JoeFour

    Why do ignore the many before Unz which have put their asses on the line, were imprisoned, physically attacked, house fire bombed, driven from their jobs, persecuted, stalked, on & on.

    They published the very stuff that Ron Unz is merely reacting to.

    Ron deserves praise, no doubt, but he’s just the messenger.

    It’s men like Germar Rudolf, Bradley Smith, Dr. Robert Faurisson, Juergen Graf, Carlo Mattogno, Ernst Zundel. Joseph Bellinger, etc., etc., that deserve the blessings.

    Anyway, welcome aboard. Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @JoeFour
  274. geokat62 says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    Ron Unz, the greatest Athenian of our time.

    To the goyim, Ron is an Athenian. To the Jews, he’s a Hellenizer.

  275. @Anonymous

    it has become a treasured little pleasure of mine to read through a new one on my Monday commute

    I hope you position yourself with your back to a bulkhead – being observed reading material like this on an American public conveyance would raise even greater risk that that faced by people doing algebra on airplanes.

    It might not be as big a risk for thee, as for me. As the song goes…

    “My eyes are dim, I cannot see,
    My browser font’s at 23,
    My brow-ser fo-ont’s a-at twen-tee-three”

    Note to 5-Eyes: I fully support and endorse the practice of delaying flights in the event that a dusky, curly-haired person is caught doing sums with foreign squiggles in them. After all, right-thinkers know – or ought to suspect – that algebra is a Muzzie invention… al-jabr sounds bad enough (it might be a leader of ISIS or something) but worse still, it means re-union of broken parts‘… parts of a bomb or a terrorist cell, perhaps?

    STOP RESISTING.

  276. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    You wouldn’t usually miss the point that I was just objecting to blathering lack of substance. However your last point overlooks the serious question as to why women, children and the elderly were transported a long way from home unless you are willing to try and make a case that it was, even after Stalingrad, a resource consuming part of resettlement plans which I suggested above and poured doubt on. Of course they weren’t transported to Germany, or anywhere, as labour.

    • Replies: @Alden
  277. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    More confirmation from the NY Times, Wikipedia and Foreign Affairs in this comment:

    In the Soviet Union, when someone with parents of two nationalities received identity papers at age 16, he could pick which nationality to list. A child of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother could put down “Jew [or not].” The religious principle of matrilineal descent was irrelevant.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/magazine/02jewishness-t.html
    […]
    As of 1 December 1941 the release of Polish nationals no longer included members of prewar minorities. All Polish Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Jews were considered Soviet and excluded from the amnesty.
    […]
    In 1959, for the first time, they were allowed to volunteer, without proof, the nationality with which they chose to be identified. Despite the possibility thus provided for Jews to “pass,” 2,268,000 people specified their nationality as Jewish (there are reasons to believe that the total number more closely approximates 3,000,000).

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/1963-01-01/status-jews-soviet-union

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2395070

  278. Wally says:
    @Unstremian

    said:
    ““In fact, he said, the term “genocide” could accurately be applied to the 2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis. But the mass murder of the Poles, Roma and others should not come under the rubric “Holocaust,” a term that Holocaust historians generally dislike because of its religious connotations but nonetheless have accepted as describing only the annihilation that the Nazis hoped to visit on the Jews.
    “All Jews of the world had to be annihilated,” Bauer said. “That was the intent. There was never an idea in Nazi minds to murder all the Russians.””

    LOL
    There were no “2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis.”
    Nor were Roma killed. You simply have no proof. It’s a simple as that.

    The Germans in WWII did nothing different than what the Allies and countries worldwide did.
    Ask Japanese-Americans who were enslaved in US concentration camps.
    Ask those enslaved in the Soviet gulags.

    If “all the Jews had to be annihilated” then why are there ca, 1,000,000 “survivors”?

    Why are there no immense humans that are alleged in allegedly known locations?

    This is incredibly easy.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Unstremian
  279. red-ice says:
    @Wally

    You are mixing up trials. The latter quote in your post clearly refers to Nuremberg.

    The first doesn’t – it refers to Dachau (Landsberg) trials.

    Uninterrupted section from The High Cost of Vengance;

    Colonel Everett’s action, nevertheless, forced the Army to take notice, and Secretary Royall appointed a commission to investigate his charges. This commission, sent to Germany in 1948, consisted of Judge Edward Leroy van Roden, of Delaware County, Pennsylvania, and Justice Gordon Simpson, of the Texas Supreme Court.

    The report made by these two American judges following their investigation, like so many other reports pertaining to Germany, has been kept secret from the American public. But Judge van Roden, after his return to the United States, gave a series of lectures and after-dinner speeches in which he stated that such third-degree methods as the following were used to obtain the conviction of the Germans condemned to death, many of whom have already been hung:

    ▲▼Beatings and brutal kickings; knocking-out of teeth and breaking of jaws; mock trials; solitary confinement; torture with burning splinters; the use of investigators pretending to be priests; starvation; and promises of acquittal. Speaking to the Chester Pike Rotary Club on December 14, 1948, Judge van Roden said: “All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators.”

    https://www.unz.com/book/freda_utley__the-high-cost-of-vengeance/#p_8_18

    Freda Utley has separate chapter about the Nuremberg trials and while her description matches what Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    ” The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history.”

    The horrible torture described above didn’t happen there.

    I find it very serious to spread such in-accurate information about the infamous Nuremberg trials. They were bad enough without any exaggeration.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wizard of Oz
  280. Wally says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    And I commended Ron Unz for it. And will continue to do so.

    But Unz is really just a messenger. And we need them all, no doubt about it.

    But just watch as the scam breaks, it’s Jews who will be falsely praised as the ‘cutting edge, brave pioneers’.

    It’s those that I have mentioned and many more who have done the real work, the heavy lifting.

    Welcome aboard.

    http://www.codoh.com

  281. renfro says:
    @Art

    Jews have squandered their legacy of pity. Except for some Zionist Christians, good will is vanishing

    Agree

  282. Wally says:
    @Twinkie

    Mich’s mother was not a Jew, she married one after Milch’s birth.

    Be careful of Wikipedia lies. When it comes to any topic that is known to be of special financial & political interests to supremacist Jews, and certainly there is no cash cow & political tool quite like the ‘holocau$t’ scam, you can bet the fix will be in. To them truth is irrelevant.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    See the facts about Emil Maurice here:
    German Nationalist Jews During the Weimar and Early Third Reich Eras, by Kerry R. Bolton:
    https://codoh.com/library/document/3215/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

  283. renfro says:
    @Alden

    good info……thanks

  284. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You said:
    “In evaluating the evidence of the Holocaust, some comment on Solzhenitsyn’s claim, which seem to corroborate Hilberg’s conclusion that most killings of Jewish civilians during WW2 were by open-air shootings in Eastern Europe, would have been of interest. Solzhenitsyn’s numbers more or less match Hilberg’s, so are we to suppose that both a life-long Jewish scholar of the Holocaust and a Nobel Prize winning novelist are both completely deluded? If not, how can the Holocaust, i.e, the direct or instigated murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis be so easily dismissed?”

    My points stand. Obviously you’re now in full retreat mode. Good.

    All Revisionists are former Believers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  285. Wally says:
    @red-ice

    They said what they said.

    Yes their was torture for the Dachau trials and the Frankfurt trials.

    recommended:
    From the Records of the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial, Part 3, by Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/1492/?lang=en
    and:
    From the Records of the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial, Part 2, by Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/1471/?lang=en

    said:
    “I find it very serious to spread such in-accurate information about the infamous Nuremberg trials. They were bad enough without any exaggeration.”
    Yawn. As if you can do anything to elevate Nuremberg, here’s more torture:

    – “The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: ‘Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.’”(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    – The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    • Replies: @red-ice
    , @Andrew E. Mathis
  286. RudyM says:

    When my older brother went to Northeast High School in Philadelphia, during the 70’s (probably late 70’s), he took a Communications class which featured guest visits from exponents of controversial viewpoints, including, yes, a Holocaust denier. I have trouble imagining something like that being allowed to happen today. (The teacher was Jewish, incidentally.)

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  287. tac says:

    “If anyone thought that Holocaust denial was a marginal phenomenon among a few Talmudic Jews and Gentile haters, evidence is emerging that it is a much wider, more well-established and dangerous phenomenon that is receiving reinforcement on the ground from the United States and European countries. There is a disturbing trend that suggests Jewish genocide against Europe’s Christian nationalities is being ignored by Western mainstream media and the educational system.”

    http://renegadetribune.com/holocaust-denial-in-europe/

    ‘The Chekist’ 1992 Russian movie w/ English subtitles 1.5 hrs

  288. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    “Anatoly Karlin just reacted and replied to Mr. Unz’s article:”

    The same Karlin who bans Revisionist posts from his comments section. What a faker he is

    Besides the claim that Jews went to immense mass graves which do not exist, we have more on ‘where Jews went’.

    Jews evacuated to USSR during war: https://archive.is/jA9iI
    and:
    more Jews evacuated to USSR during war: https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees
    exc.:
    “Since the outbreak of the war hundreds of thousands of Jews from Poland, Rumania and the Baltic countries have been given shelter in the U.S.S.R., and many of them were permitted to pass through Russia en route to the United States and to Palestine.”

    http://www.codoh.com

  289. @Anon

    ‘…If only it were just ‘denial’ that were prohibited. In many places it’s verboten even to ask impertinent questions, and in some places all questions are deemed impertinent.

    Even worse is that these speech laws even spread to arresting people for jokes and comments unrelated to the Holocaust. So, you can get in trouble for saying insulting things about homos and trannies in much of the EU. After Mandela died, some guy in UK was arrested for a joke.

    It began from silencing deniers of genocide to arresting those guilty of irreverence of the idols of PC, esp Jews, homos, and blacks .’

    What’s decidedly ironic is that if you look up the actual conditions that obtained in Nazi Germany, the level of free speech Germans could permit themselves in 1933-1945 is getting to be not all that distinct from what we can still permit ourselves.

    We can still speak our minds on this site, and people who are retired like yours truly can pretty much let fly — but a lot of people in a lot of situations no longer can, or fear to, or just censor their thoughts before they’re even formed. Conversely, in 1933-1945, you really could get away with the odd joke, and even if you pushed your luck, the usual outcome was a brief interview with no penalty if the Gestapo concluded you weren’t a serious threat.

    How different is that from here? We still have freedom of speech, in theory — except for ‘hate speech,’ of course. Then it’s possible you may be fired from your job, or lose tenure, or suddenly become unpublishable if you go too far.

    But you can say what you want. It’s not like Nazi Germany.

  290. @RudyM

    ‘When my older brother went to Northeast High School in Philadelphia, during the 70′s (probably late 70′s), he took a Communications class which featured guest visits from exponents of controversial viewpoints, including, yes, a Holocaust denier. I have trouble imagining something like that being allowed to happen today. (The teacher was Jewish, incidentally.)’

    Yeah. My thought exactly. The times, they are a changin.’

    Unz mentioned reading something back in the seventies as well. Back in the day, Holocaust Denial wasn’t taken seriously — but if you wanted to espouse it, you were free to do so, more or less without let or hindrance.

    It was like thinking the moon landings were faked. Have at it; it’s not a crime.

  291. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally

    you do NOT have proof for your impossible ‘holocaust’ claims. Very simple.

    Wally, you seem to be seriously challenged in the comprehension of the English language. I made no “holocaust” claims.

    I said anyone who wishes to argue that there was no Holocaust might reasonably be expected to address the claims to the contrary made by Raul Hilberg and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. Of course no one is obliged to argue anything at all, but then someone who won’t debate among the most notable proponents of the position they seek to debunk seems unlikely to convince many people of validity of their position.

    I spent the best part of an hour reading Ron Unz’s article and came away from it with the belief that it proves nothing concerning the occurrence or otherwise of the murder of several million Jews by the Nazis. But that does not mean that having wasted one hour on the subject that I now want to spend many further hours on the subject in order to become some kind of Holocaust researcher. I don’t.

    • Replies: @Wally
  292. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally

    My points stand.

    Yes, your pointless points stand.

    My point concerned the article by Ron Unz, not your points, yet to be made, i.e., a URL to a website I have no interest in exploring because life is short and the Holocaust is not a topic that I wish to research.

    • Replies: @Wally
  293. @Stan d Mute

    Perhaps they can sue for damages?
    In an American court, no less?

  294. @CanSpeccy

    ‘…What I do find disquieting in this account of Holocaust denialism is the evidence it provides of punishment of those in both Europe and North America who, having researched the issue, came to conclusions that conflict with the claims of known liars such as Eli Wiesel, and have as a consequence, had their careers and livelihood’s destroyed. So much for American leadership of the Free World.’

    This ties in with Gilad Atzmon’s observation that the Holocaust has ceased to become a subject for historical analysis, but rather, has become a religious truth.

    I can advance more or less any idea I wish to on a historical question without fear. If I choose to, I can argue that the ‘Black Death’ wasn’t a single disease at all, but rather a cluster of unrelated epidemics. Many may disagree, and they probably can even convincingly refute me if they try hard enough, but I can advance the hypothesis. No one objects.

    That’s what occurs with historical questions. But the Holocaust has ceased to be a historical question; rather, it has taken on some of the characteristics of religious ‘truth.’ You can no more question the Holocaust in Paris than you could doubt the authenticity of Mohammed’s revelation in Mecca.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @utu
    , @jilles dykstra
  295. red-ice says:
    @Wally

    The error I pointed out is obvious. The good Judge wasn’t investigating the civil Nuremberg trials. He was investigating Dachau, closed military trials. The horrible torture he describes, including broken jaws and crushed testicles happened there.

    If you don’t see the difference and the significance of this you should probably find another hobby.

    • Replies: @Wally
  296. Alden says:
    @Anon

    It was my point that only working age men from the occupied countries were sent to Germany as labor. That only Jewish old people children and women were sent. That was the point.

    • Replies: @j2
  297. S says:

    The excerpted article below entitled ‘Our Israelitish Brethren’ appeared in an October, 1870 edition of the highly influential journal Atlantic Monthly which was then being published in Boston, Massachusetts. Boston has historically been a major power center of both the Anglo-Saxon and Jewish peoples in the United States as well as that of Freemasonry. The journal, now known as The Atlantic, remains quite influential and is based at present in Washington D.C.

    The title of the article ‘Our Israelitish Brethren’ would translate into more modern English as ‘Our Jewish Brothers’.

    The author of the article was one James Parton, a person with a seemingly Anglo-Saxon name, a name not dissimilar in origin to the bulk of the US population at the time. One might wonder what might have prompted Parton to write an article so entitled, rather than one entitled ‘Our Germanic Brethren’ in regards to, say, Germany, as after all that’s where the Anglo-Saxons had originated.

    An explanation for this likely lies in the long term dysfunctional relationship which has existed between the Jewish and Anglo-Saxon people, a relationship which is ultimately harmful, destructive, and unhealthy for both peoples.

    Reflective of that unhealthy relationship has been the historically unfortunate (and absurd) adoption by powerful elements of the Anglo-Saxon elites and hangers on of British Israelism (aka Anglo-Israelism & American Israelism), the belief being basically that the Anglo-Saxon people are of the ‘Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, rather than being from the forests of northern Europe.

    During the 20th century the ideology of British Israelism has been believed ‘without a doubt’ by First Sea Lord Admiral Fisher, King George VI, and even now it’s said by Queen Elizabeth II, amongst others.

    George VI (then Duke of York) wrote in 1922 that:

    “I am sure the British Israelite business is true. I have read a lot about it lately and everything no matter how large or small points to our being the chosen race”.

    Getting back to the excerpted article and the initial emboldened quote referring to ‘the huge Andersonville outrages’; this is a reference to the Civil War era Andersonville prison camp maintained in the South to house Union prisoners.

    The prison camps on both sides, North and South, had very poor conditions that resulted in not dissimilarly large numbers of deaths, the South’s situation exacerbated by the strict Union blockade of all food and medicine from entering the Southern states and it’s being in the process of losing the war during the last couple of years of fighting. As the war progressed to its conclusion in 1864-1865 dark rumors began to circulate in the North about the southern camps and the alleged deliberate mass murder of Union prisoners…ie the manufacture of leather wallets from the human skin of ‘murdered’ US prisoners.

    Andersonville, located in Georgia, was the largest of the South’s camps, and thus had a proportionately higher number of deaths in comparison to the other southern camps. As stated, both the North and South’s camps had comparable high death rates due to poor conditions.

    At the conclusion of the Civil War in the Spring of 1865 the United States (Union) due in part out of bitterness due to its great losses incurred began a campaign that by way of a series of trials was to try the entirety of the upper echolons of the political and military leadership of the defeated South (ie Jefferson Davis and his cabinet, General Robert E Lee and his subordinate generals) for ‘crimes against humanity’ allegedly involving the southern camp system, the main southern camp Andersonville with its associated rail depot being the centerpiece of this effort.

    This would be about the same difference as if a terrible car accident were to take place with deaths in both of the vehicles involved, and yet one of these two parties would accuse the other of planned deliberate murder in the accident, get a lawyer, and then seek out the death penalty for the other car’s driver.

    These plans fell through, and the US rather than looking towards itself to explain and help it to understand the disaster of the war, would instead try the solitary hapless Henry Wirz, the commanding officer at Andersonville, as a scapegoat to satiate its desire for vengeance.

    Wirz was placed on trial under the auspices of a military tribunal and would be accused of many horrible things, ie the random shooting down of prisoners with his personal pistol for sport, the setting of ferocious and large dogs upon the men, deaths resulting from the deliberate poisoning of great masses of the men disguised as health measures (measures at Andersonville such as vaccination against disease to protect and preserve the lives of prisoners were turned upside down on their face and declared by the United States to have been in reality ‘poisonous injections’), the planned ‘systematic’ murder of many thousands more of the men through their deliberate starvation, etc.

    Henry Wirz after a months long trial would be convicted on the basis of these accusations and hung in Washington D.C. on November 10, 1865.

    After the war, the Union General and amateur painter Lew Wallace whom was the presiding judge over the case against Wirz, would paint a scene of a Union prisoner at Andersonville shot down as he crossed a ‘deadline’ (something all the camps, North and South, had) to obtain a drink of water from a stream. The painting was entitled ‘Over the Deadline’ and would go on tour across the North multiple times in the years after the war. The Boston Advertiser declared the painting to be ‘horribly realistic’.

    Wallace would also be the author in 1880 of the novel (and later 1959 movie) Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ about a Jewish prince (Judah Ben-Hur) whom after being enslaved by the Romans and then freed, ultimatey converts to Christ.

    For decades after the war the corporate national media of the day would harangue southerners about ‘the camps’, the ‘cattle cars’, the ‘poisonous injections’, the allegedly planned ‘systematic’ mass murder thru deliberate starvation, and the ‘slaughter pens’, the latter being the 19th century term for slaughter house, and in the context of the accusation the equivelant of ‘death camps’, places designed so that living beings enter and none leave alive.

    During these years songs were published in the north containing the phrase ‘Never Forget’ in regards to Andersonville. Mixed in amongst these many accusatory articles after the war would be the occassional rare US establishment journal which acknowedged that it was the Union’s own strict food and medicine blockade of the South which had been largely responsible for the condition of Andersonville and the other southern camps at the end of the war.

    All the quoted phrases here can be found when doing a patient search of the term ‘Andersonville’ at the multiple sites on line containing cached post Civil War 19th century US journals.

    For whatever reason in about 1900 the incessant accusations about the southern camps stopped appearing in the US media.

    One thing though, the accusations against Wirz regarding Andersonville which resulted in his being hanged as well as the accusations regarding the other Southern camps are now almost universally, though not too loudly, acknowledged to have been wholly untrue. And that Henry Wirz had been scapegoated out of Union picque about a war which had cost both themselves and the South hundreds of thousands of lives.

    Why the fraudulent accusations then? It would seem first and foremost they serve as a negative means of social control of the people from which the accusations eminate from… eminating from and aimed broadly in this case at the Civil War era Anglo-Saxon general public of the US (Union), but more importantly targeting the largely Anglo-Saxon Union troops fighting at the front, ie ‘You had better fight hard, very hard, resisting in every possible way, and not even think of surrendering…lest you too should wind up in one of those places. A powerful secondary reason is the demonization of a declared enemy.

    The US (Union) rather than ultimately making fraudulent accusations would have done better to have looked towards itself early on and examined its own motivations for pursuing war, and perhaps have decided against prosecuting a war with the South.

    [MORE]

    One of these lesser known powerful motivations for war being the North’s monetization of chattel slavery and its trade via its adoption of the much more profitable and efficient wage slavery (ie the cheap labor/mass immigration system then being promoted globally by the British Empire) and its desire to force this same system upon a recalcitrant South..

    ..a South whose inefficient and costly chattel slavery was producing expensive cotton to feed northern textile mills, and thus affecting their bottom line and ability to compete. Regarding this see the 1840-1850’s financing and construction by the powerful New England Lawrence family of textile magnates of first Lawrence ‘Immigrant City’, Massachusetts and then its sister city of Lawrence, Kansas, the latter being at the center of vicious fighting in contested ‘Bleeding Kansas’ between guerilla armies privately financed by New England industrialists and Southern plantation owners.

    One other lesser known major motivation for war no doubt being the powers that be having since its founding designated the United States a model for the other continents of the world of the unified continental super state, these continents some day to join together to form the future New Rome/United States of the World, and it wouldn’t do to have this model continental super-state split asunder down the middle indefinately.

    (I say all this within the context of my personal belief that in 1861 when violence became unavoidable that rather than turning the guns upon each other the guns should have been turned upon the slavery addicted and corrupted elites and hangers on of the North and South with their respective competing wage and chattel slavery systems.

    These systems of slavery had resulted in the displacement of their own Anglo-Saxon people in Massachusetts and South Carolina, and the same process was well under way in 1860 via the backdoor of the state of California with the importation by diktat of tens of thousands of wage slaves from China.

    Most I think would have readily surrendered where they then could of been replaced in positions of authority by people whom had not been involved in either wage or chattel slavery. A true abolition of slavery, both chattel and wage, could of then taken place, followed by self determination for both the former African slave and European, each with plenty of reasons to go their own way.)

    In lieu of the North not having done that self examination first, and perhaps declining to pursue war in 1861, but rather instead choosing to make costly and needless war upon the South, followed up with angry fraudulent accusations, one can only surmise that:

    When a moral cause is dubious it is sometimes necessary to augment it with something…anything.

    ‘Of the giant wrongs to which they [the Jewish people] have been subjected for the last ten centuries,—the huge Andersonville outrages,—few readers need to be reminded.’

    Atlantic Monthly (October, 1870) – Our Israelitish Brethren

    ‘Who can estimate the reparation which Christendom owes this interesting and unoffending people? How abundant, how untiring, should be our charity in judging the faults of character which our own superstition has created or developed!

    Of the giant wrongs to which they have been subjected for the last ten centuries,—the huge Andersonville outrages,—few readers need to be reminded. In the slaughter of the Jews of Seville, in 1391, thirty-five hundred families were murdered. In 1492, under Ferdinand and Isabella, three hundred thousand heroic Israelites preferred exile to apostasy.

    Many of them found a resting-place only in the grave or in the depths of the sea; for neither Portugal nor Italy nor Mohammedan Morocco would tolerate the presence of a people who would not comply with their superstitions, and who, by their frugality, continence, temperance, and industry, absorbed the wealth of every country in which they lived. Those who remained in the Peninsula suffered baptism, and were obliged to conform to the outward observances of the reigning church.

    Far more enviable was the lot of those who had accepted banishment. The favorite office of the Spanish Inquisition for two centuries was to “question” the sincerity of those two hundred thousand Jewish converts; and the national amusement was to witness the burning of Jewish Rabbis and Jewish maidens. Similar atrocities were committed, as we all know, in England, Germany, and France.’

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/British_Israelism

    http://www.britishisrael.co.uk

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1870/10/our-israelitish-brethren/306257/

    http://wallacestudy.blogspot.com/2011/02/art-of-lew-wallace-over-deadline.html?m=1

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur:_A_Tale_of_the_Christ

    • Replies: @S
  298. CalDre says:
    @phil

    It would be helpful if Putin would do more to make Soviet-era archives available

    Putin closed the archives and he has made Holocaust Denial a very serious crime in the Russian Federation.

    Don’t put your hopes in that Globalist.

    • Replies: @Wally
  299. tac says:
    @trupright

    Yet the Western countries continue to pay ….

    Jewish holocau$$$t extortionist$$$ busy expanding ever growing racket:

    “Holocaust profiteering by literary hoax is widespread. “Holocaust profiteers” is the term originally coined on the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal. The anatomy of “Holocaust profiteering” was made clear by the Reuters Agency when it reported from Buenos Aires, Argentina on Friday, 19, April 1996 (14:50:17 PDT) on a meeting of the World Jewish Congres Rabbi Israel Singer, General Secretary of the World Jewish Congress stated that “More than three million Jews died in Poland and the Polish people are not going to be the heirs of the Polish Jews.  We are never going to allow this. (…) They’re gonna hear from us until Poland freezes over again.  If Poland does not satisfy Jewish claims it will be “publicly attacked and humiliated” in the international forum.”

    http://www.pogonowski.com/?p=2411

    Holocaust survivors’ grandchildren call for action over inherited trauma

    “Jewish activists in Scotland have started a campaign to support the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors across the world, saying the trauma of the extermination camps continues to haunt the descendants of those who suffered there.

    Dan Glass, 29, from London, said he heard constant tales of the Holocaust as he grew up, which have deeply affected him into adulthood.

    “All four of my grandparents narrowly avoided the gas chambers in Auschwitz and countless of their friends met with this fate. For my father it was a daily conversation in my teens and early 20s and even though I very profoundly understood his pain, one day I had to say to him, ‘Dad, I can’t talk about this anymore.’ My father had a whole wall of books on the subject of the Holocaust – it was all he wanted to talk about, but it was so harrowing for me.””

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/03/holocaust-survivors-grandchildren-inherited-trauma

    “The organization that handles claims on behalf of Jews who suffered under the Nazis says Germany has agreed to pay another 75 million euros ($88 million) to fund social welfare services for Holocaust survivors.

    The New York-based Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany said Tuesday the additional money brings total funding next year to 480 million euros ($560 million), to help survivors as they grow older and more frail.
    […]
    Germany also agreed to increase pensions paid to 55,000 Holocaust survivors in Central and Eastern Europe, and expand eligibility for child survivors.”

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-agrees-to-88-million-more-for-holocaust-survivors/

    “We call it the ‘Hoaxoco$t’ because it is a hoax, and it costs plenty. In addition to the jillions of dollars already paid out, directly or indirectly, in cash, goods, and services to Hoaxoco$t ‘survivors’ and the racketeer state of Israel since 1945, with new, improved ‘Hoaxoco$t survivor’ rip-offs, shake-downs, protection rackets, extortion rackets, blackmail schemes, and related swindles being invented and refined almost every week; one would need a computer to calculate the number of unprovoked ‘air strikes’, invasions, bombings, burnings, sinkings, shellings, confiscations, expulsions, tortures, book-burnings, beatings, arrests and detentions, both with and without trial, all caused by the insane delusion that we are fighting ‘Hitler’ every five seconds, in the need to prevent yet another ‘Hoaxoco$t'(for the umpteenth time).”

    https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Carlos_W._Porter

  300. CalDre says:
    @Colin Wright

    This was the great point made by the brave Ahmedinijad some years ago:

    They have fabricated a legend under the name Massacre of the Jews, and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves.

    If somebody in their country questions God, nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2005/12/200849154418141136.html

  301. utu says:
    @Colin Wright

    I can advance more or less any idea I wish to on a historical question without fear. If I choose to, I can argue that the ‘Black Death’ wasn’t a single disease at all, but rather a cluster of unrelated epidemics. Many may disagree, and they probably can even convincingly refute me if they try hard enough, but I can advance the hypothesis. No one objects.

    But not if you try to advance a hypothesis that some of the epidemics were spread by Jews.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
  302. CalDre says:
    @Unstremian

    It definitely wasn’t just Communism though. It was also the wildly disproportionate role Jews played in the Weimar Republic and the infamous decadence and political and economic instability that typified it.

    I think it’s pretty clear why Hitler and Nazis wanted to expel Jews from Europe. First there is the Bolshevik issue – and not just the 10s millions murdered in the Soviet Union largely by Jews, but that Jews formed an impressive Fifth Column of Communists throughout Europe. Second was their belief that Jews are greedy, ruthless liars, which finds substantiation of course in Jews’ religious tenets (they are not allowed to lie to each other but lying to non-Jews is kosher so long as it does not invite backlash). Third Jews were very active among the industrial revolts during WW I which paralyzed Germany’s war industry and was responsible for German losses. Fourth Hitler specifically blamed Jews for arranging for the unconditional surrender of Germany in WW I and then for imposing, and profiting from, the Treaty of Versailles. Fifth Nazis understood the virulent Jewish (religious/tribal) antipathy toward Christianity and Western Civilization. Probably some more I forgot but Mein Kampf is not hard to find.

  303. j2 says:
    @Alden

    “The Germans sent many people from the occupied countries to Germany to work. They sent working age men. Not children, young teens and old people”

    They did send children from Poland to Germany to work. I personally know very well a Polish woman, who was taken to Germany to work. She was less than 15 years at that time.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
  304. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You’re a blatant liar. Your posts speak for themselves.

    You’re getting the crap knocked out of you and you’re now tying to distance yourself from your posts. LOL

    you said:
    “I spent the best part of an hour reading Ron Unz’s article and came away from it with the belief that it proves nothing concerning the occurrence or otherwise of the murder of several million Jews by the Nazis. But that does not mean that having wasted one hour on the subject that I now want to spend many further hours on the subject in order to become some kind of Holocaust researcher. I don’t.”

    So what makes you think that “several million Jews” were “murdered”?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  305. @Wally

    ‘LOL
    There were no “2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis.”
    Nor were Roma killed. You simply have no proof. It’s a simple as that.

    The Germans in WWII did nothing different than what the Allies and countries worldwide did.
    Ask Japanese-Americans who were enslaved in US concentration camps.
    Ask those enslaved in the Soviet gulags.

    If “all the Jews had to be annihilated” then why are there ca, 1,000,000 “survivors”?

    Why are there no immense humans that are alleged in allegedly known locations?

    This is incredibly easy.’

    Actually, Wally. Maybe World War Two didn’t happen at all — any of it.

    Can you prove it did? Hmm? Hmm? Wally? Wally?

    You’re right. This is incredibly easy.

  306. @utu

    I largely agree with this, and I’d add that the reason they make ever-expansive laws against holocaust “denial” and “relativization” is because they specifically want all opponents of the narrative of eternal guilt to be associated with denial of the whole thing – that way they could easily claim that all opponents of the narrative are crazy.

    The narrative of eternal guilt has also been pushed to be ever more expansive, it’s not only eternal German guilt, but also eternal Hungarian guilt, eternal French guilt, even eternal Polish guilt (who really didn’t even have many collaborators even on that narrow issue), eternal American guilt and eternal British guilt (needless to say how unhinged that is), eternal guilt of the whole world (especially whites), a debt the world owes to Jews for eternity.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Alden
  307. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You said:
    ” If not, how can the Holocaust, i.e, the direct or instigated murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis be so easily dismissed?”

    Yes, they can be “easily dismissed” and in fact it is being dismissed worldwide.

    So where’s you proof for your alleged ‘millions of murdered Jews’?

    You don’t like it and I don’t care, but my points stand, you said what you said. You’ve been busted.

    http://www.codoh.com

  308. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Apparently the following is a quote from Anatoly Karlin:
    “There were 3,028,538 Jews in the USSR according to the 1939 Census, but only 2,266,334 in the 1959 one (despite the demographic catastrophe of WW2, even the ethnic Russian population expanded by 15% between these two dates); this was also before the start of Soviet Jewish emigration to the West. Where did they go?”

    The Soviet figure for 1939 is highly in doubt. This time Wikipedia is a reasonable source (as it often, but not always is): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937)
    read:
    “The preliminary result of the census (i.e., 1937 census), reported to Stalin in the middle of March 1937, was 162,039,470 people, much lower than the “criminally decreased” registered numbers of 170-172 million or Stalin’s expectation of 180 million people.”
    and:
    “The new Soviet Census (1939) showed a population figure of 170.6 million people, manipulated so as to match exactly the numbers stated by Stalin in his report to the 18th Congress of the All-Union Communist Party. No other censuses were conducted until 1959”.
    Thus, about 8 million people were invented just to make Stalin happy.

    Concerning the Jewish population, the American Jewish Congress yearbook 1939 figures sum to the Soviet Union of 1939 as 2.8 million. This figure includes the three Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) that were annexed to the SU in 1940. They cannot be in the Soviet census of January 17, 1939 and therefore this Jewish figure gives a considerably smaller Jewish population for the SU of 1939.

    This AJC number is still based on Soviet estimates and AJC Yearbook acknowledges that it is highly uncertain. It is very likely to be at least 1 million too large because Jewish immigration to the USA seems to have been 1 million higher than the official figures give between 1921 and 1939. As Soviet census often meant a person going to register with a set of internal passports of his household, we cannot know how many of the passport holders had illegally emigrated. We only know there were so many internal passports.

    A further reduction to the number may be considered because of lowered birth rate, and the size of the Jewish population after the war is also not quite certain. It was given as a round number of 2 million in 1948.

  309. @academic gossip

    The Eden document from July 7 presumably discussed the extermination camp at Auschwitz and possibly the German extermination program more generally. By “science” Churchill is probably talking about gas chambers.

    Presumably, possibly, probably…

    Churchill’s book contains a succint statement of the standard Holocaust account as uniquely exceptional, technologically specialized, state-organized murder of Jews.

    You forgot the “succinct” quote.

  310. Erebus says:
    @utu

    If the Holocaust revisionism is to be taken seriously it must come up with the story for the vanished religious Jews of Poland. But it can’t present a credible story of survival because these Jews indeed died during the WWII while in a custody of German occupying forces.

    You were on a track until you got to “custody of German occupying forces”.

    The Polish Jews were concentrated in the east, and so were in the “custody” of the Red Army in the early stages of the war, and not the Wehrmacht’s. During that time a great many (numbers escape me atm) were evacuated east, deep into the SU. In wartime, a few million could disperse across Eurasia without raising too many eyebrows, but they were noticed.

    They did not show up in America or Argentina or Brazil.

    No, but in addition to the SU, there’s lots of documentation of them showing up in what Timothy Snyder called the Bloodlands.
    The Ukraine, Belarus, Romania and the Baltics saw an orgy of violence as a combination of territorial/political/social vendettas and racial/tribal hatreds were unleashed in what amounted to a war of all against all. Displaced Jews migrating east were targeted by just about everyone. The violence accelerated with Barbarossa, and continued throughout the war, dying out only in the ’50s, when the Soviets finally crushed the last of it in the Ukraine.

    Snyder notwithstanding, the full story of what happened there has yet to be told. We saw the tip of that underlying iceberg of latent hatred in the Mariupol & Odessa massacres, and the targeting of civilians in the Donbas in 2014. I’ve long held that if a Holocaust happened, it happened there.

    Interestingly, the vast majority of the so-called “evidence” of German atrocities presented at the Nuremberg Trials came from the Soviets, and specifically from the Ukraine. One would be forgiven for thinking that its production was politically motivated.

    • Replies: @j2
  311. @JoeFour

    My list of books on the persecutions of the jews is nearly forty books.
    I also saw and participated in many internet discussions, read the reports of chemical analyses in what is presented as gas chambers for humans.
    I therefore just glanced though the article, there is very little I do not know, in my opinion.
    I do not put trust in authors, I compare the writings.
    Butz urges his readers to read one of the ‘standard’ works on the holocaust, I did.
    The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.
    I am at a point of knowledge where I seldom must change a view, but a recent change were the two atomic bombs on Japan, together with the annihilation of the Kwantung army by the USSR the bombs may have saved some 20 million lives.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  312. @Colin Wright

    ” No doubt the Germans were being beastly to the Jews ”
    Beastly ?
    Ordinary Germans not at all, as jew Klemperer describes.
    The Gestapo was nasty, but no more than that
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
  313. @Colin Wright

    ” known liars such as Eli Wiesel, ”
    Could not discover any lie in
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007
    On the contrary, Wiesel confirms Rassinier, Burg, Kogon.
    If this was his intention, I wonder

  314. @Johan Meyer

    I indeed did not read the book, did not even know it.
    About
    Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, ‘Hitler’s gewillige beulen’, Antwerpen 1996 (Hitler’s willing executioners; ordinary Germans and the holocaust, New York 1996)
    I suppose, Goldhagen is an idiot.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Colin Wright
  315. @Anon

    I suppose you know how the story is what had to be done after the asserted killing by an insecticide.
    Anyone using this method would have used cyanide, it kills instantly.
    Saves a lot of time.
    Then about removing the bodies and having them cremated, one by one, as the story goes, then removing the remains.
    Did I have to design a mass killing process for humans, I suppose it is not very difficult to design an efficient installation.
    But I do not want to think about how.

    As to Churchill, in his memoirs, must admit I do not have all ten or eleven volumes in Dutch, seven or so, not a word about extermination of jews.
    Maybe you know that Churchill’s mother was the daughter of a New York banker, whose name may show the banker was a jew.
    Technically then Churchill may have been a jew.
    He supported zionism until 1953, when his life long friend Moyne was killed in Egypt by zionists.

    • Replies: @Anon
  316. Heros says:

    Once again, Ron Unz has bravely broached a taboo, but once again he tries to maintain his plausible deniability to JP by using milquetoast words like “highly likely” or “almost certain”. This is almost as damning as jews having to force draconian holocaust denial and hate speech legislation on their goy slaves across the west in order to prop up their never ending stream of absurd lies. It shows that Ron Unz fears JP, and rightfully so. As a US expat living in exile, I would advise him not to leave the country because CBP may now have him on one of their run away slave lists, and the experience at the border when re-entering ZOG USA can be highly unpleasant Believe me I know.

    If we look at some of the worst cases of jewish psychopaths projecting their own foul and satanic deeds back onto Christians, we have the (((bolshevik))) destruction of Russia, the Holdomor, the Holohoax, Ritual Child Sacrifice, the Palestinian Genocide, and far more, but these 5 Jewish psychopathic crimes against humanity will suffice for my calculations.

    Statistically, the formula for calculating the probability of jews waging genocidal war against the entire planet the way they did the Amaleks would be:

    1-(1-“likelyhood of psycopaths”)^5 = 1-(1-.95)^5 =.99999968

    All these “highly likely” historical events taken together reveal the truth. Calling them the enemy of humanity doesn’t even start to describe the evil that they represent.

  317. Heros says:

    I have stated many times in this AP series that one of the most revealing facts that has come out is the difference in character between the jews and the people whose lives they have attempted to destroy.

    On one side we have Lipstadt, Weisel, and dozens of kvetching Rabbi’s flinging spittle.

    On the other side we have the finest examples of modern Christian chivalry and honor: Irving, Rudolf, Zundel, Faurisson, Haverbeck, Stoll, Schaefer, and even Wally.

    Yes Wally, who day after day keeps plugging away at Hasbara agents and their idiot mind controlled puppets who never manage to string a coherent argument against the evidence he continually presents. These agent idiots just keep spewing the same old drivel: CanSpeccy, PeterAUS, utu, and many others.

    This massive truth schism between jews and gentiles could not be more blatant, and it mirrors all the hate speech and denial legislation that they have used to enslave all of Christianity with.

    Here is a particularly loathsome creature call Barbara Lipstadt in action doing her best to deceive the stupid goyim.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  318. @Ron Unz

    Having visited Birkenau with a Holocaust survivor who only managed to stay alive by being part of a Sonderkommando unit forced to remove bodies from and “disinfect” the gas chambers, the theses of Holocaust deniers seems to me to be rather distasteful.

    Although the number of victims in the gas chambers will surely never be known with certainty, the “evidence” denying the possibility of the chambers themselves appears to be based mainly on the Leuchter report, which claimed to be the first forensic analysis of Auschwitz. This was, of course, not true – and Faurisson’s dismissal (in the introduction to the first Leuchter report) of the forensic examinations carried out in 1945 was entirely too facile.

    Given the state of the crematoria at the time Leuchter carried out his analysis (1988), it seems to me that he could have written most of his report without ever stepping foot in Auschwitz. That he was paid rather handsomely for his “investigation”, presumably by Faurisson and Zundel, doesn’t help vouch for its credibility. You find what you are paid to find (or more properly in this case, you don’t find any evidence that you are paid not to find).

  319. @Wally

    Plenty of prisoners working as forced laborers died because of the conditions, particularly in mines and building underground factories. No doubt in a situation where American and British Pods were almost starved to death, and certainly weakened in resistance to any disease, the calculation for forced labor would be to give them just enough of whatever food was available to keep most of them alive and working balancing that against calculations about finding replacements and the means of transport to bring them to the places of work. But the logic wouldn’t have been very different from that of the slave managers in the WI before 1833. The short term requirements would have meant a lot of the non volunteers compelled to labor hard would have succumbed. Obviously if there was plenty of food around the more skilled workers would be relatively well looked after as long as they were needed. And as you seem to have missed my point was that other things being equal amongst the underfed the Jews would have been in the bottom layer.

    • Replies: @phil
  320. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Silly stuff. Obviously Germans, including SS guards and managers, who could see the war was lost weren’t going to put in special efforts to keep the killing of Jews going, especially when actual destruction of the camps had been ordered. So the sick who couldn’t walk were no doubt left to (probably) die while in some, though probably not all, parts of large camp complexes prisoners would be coerced into moving West with the guards, while some prisoners would have thought at this stage e.g. “Better the devil we know” or “at least we speak/understand our guard’s language” or “I don’t think Comrade Stalin is going to welcome me nicely”. Human reality is quite complex Wally. Have you ever thought of reasons why the guards might want to have prisoners with them? Think self preservation.

    • Replies: @utu
  321. @Unstremian

    ‘…It definitely wasn’t just Communism though. It was also the wildly disproportionate role Jews played in the Weimar Republic and the infamous decadence and political and economic instability that typified it…

    That’s my suspicion as well. It’s something that conventional historians seem to have been loathe to explore — perhaps it would appear to justify the Nazi reaction and the willingness of so many Germans to embrace it.

    It’s a pity, as psychologically, we seem to be in about the same place today. What’s that about being doomed to repeat something?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  322. @Felix Krull

    What you say about what cannot be discussed and about the restrictions on legal argument seem so fantastic to me that I would be much obliged by chapter and verse substantiation. BTW hasn’t the inability to have the truth debated in court been taken to the European Court of Human Rights? If so, with what result? If not why not?

  323. @Johnny Smoggins

    “This would be like me setting up a GoFundMe for my cancer treatment and then telling you that actually I just have the flu…….but I’m still sick so I should be able to keep the money.”

    … and we go to jail if we say you have merely the flu rather than cancer.

  324. j2 says:
    @Alden

    “It was my point that only working age men from the occupied countries were sent to Germany as labor. That only Jewish old people children and women were sent. That was the point.”

    You are wrong in this. Jews actually were not sent as labor. They were transferred and had to do forced labor while being transferred. As Jews were transferred, it included all ages. But to forced labor in Germany were sent ethnic Poles and there were quite young among them, under 15. Sent to farm work. I know one who was sent there as a young girl, she is Polish, not Jewish. Poles were also sent to work for German farmers in Poland as forced workers. Germans tried to round-up people and take them to forced labor, I knew one who escaped this fate by hiding, a boy at that time, Polish, not Jewish.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  325. Mike P says:
    @Alden

    Thanks again. It is pretty remarkable that the English version has been completely purged, apparently! I checked abebooks.com and archive.org, too, but nothing.

    • Replies: @Alden
  326. Anon,
    you can continue to ignore that camp inmates died of hunger, because the inmate camp management ate very well.
    Yet Poliakov describes this explicitly for the Warsaw ghetto.
    The description is accompanied by how the jew at the top behaved like a Roman emperor with a court.
    Restaurant, wine and liquor prices are specified.
    If you do not find it in the english translation, I’m quite willing to specify the French text with page numbers etc.
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris

  327. @Colin Wright

    The Weimar Republic war run by USA bankster committees, there were three of them, Owen, Davis, forgot the third name.
    The Weimar Republic did not pay the reparations, as Keynes had explained, impossible.
    If among the committees there were jews, probable, never saw it mentioned as such.
    And indeed, nearly all the ‘leading’ German politicians were jews.

  328. Excellent and much-needed article, mr.Unz!

    Two aphorisms, the first from 1903 by the once famous German-Jewish philosopher Otto Weininger, in my translation, the second from 1897 by German philosopher Ludwig Klages in the translation of Joseph D. Pryce:

    “The trick of the Jew is to stand alongside God”.

    (The prophesy of a Jewish friend:) “Herr Klages, the ancient world was destroyed by Judaism, just as the modern world is about to be!” When I voiced my skepticism as to the accuracy of his prophesy… he merely responded: “Just wait – you will live to see my prophesy fulfilled!”

    • Replies: @Anon
  329. @muselman3295

    Weird, all these sonderkommando’s were killed after a few weeks, so the story goes, on top of that, according to Poliakov, at the end of 1944 the gas chambers for humans were demolished by explosives.
    What you visited in Birkenau has never been used for killing humans, university chemical analyses demonstrated.

    • Replies: @j2
  330. Mike P says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I suppose, Goldhagen is an idiot.

    That is beside the point. Goldhagen was given a faculty position of Harvard – he is a symptom of the deep dishonesty and corruption in academia regarding all things holocaust (and many other themes as well, but don’t get me started).

  331. @j2

    Nearly anyone registered as a jew was deported from the Netherlands.
    Leaving the trains at Auschwitz those seen as fit for work were separated from the others.
    Also from the Netherlands were deported all men seen as fit for work.
    Yet, an uncle of mine prevented this by simulating that he did not speak German.
    Someone else, not jewish, was deported for work.
    He was treated badly, how and why I never knew, he did not want to talk about it.
    But his whole life after the war was influenced by it.
    However, being treated badly is consistent with Rassinier describing how the inmate camp management acted cruelly, including slow strangulation for anyone to see.
    The Germans did not care, they were only interested in marching out each morning the number of workers they needed.
    Stories about workers dying because of work conditions, highly improbable, with any able bodied man fighting Germany was desperately short of manpower.
    Even able bodied in the army was not possible, the Atlantic Wall was manned by inferior soldiers, among them foreign, such as Russian.

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
  332. For those like Ron who have not read the diary attributed to the young Anne Frank, they might save themselves some time by reading “What Did Anne Frank Have against Americans?” http://www.dcdave.com/article5/150811.htm

  333. @Greg Bacon

    Having read nearly all that Wikipedia article I can see that there is a lot of badly drafted legislation but only the Israeli law seemed – arguably – to prevent someone saying the 6 million or any other figure is an exaggeration. I don’t defend the legislation but I think only some stupid, badly advised out the flaw or determined to challenge it in a pigheaded way has to fear imprisonment. An obvious line would be “I support my Jewish friends, all decent sensible people, who care for the goodwill of all and oppose exaggeration of the appalling facts of the Holocaust and closing down honest expressions of opinion for political purposes. I fear it will not help defend Israel, if that is their main objective, to insist that no one is allowed to point out or argue that the proven Nazi killings of Jews are a lot less than the 6 million figure which we have all grown up with”.

    • Replies: @Chase
  334. @Wally

    Neither of the Rudolf links refers to torture committed against defendants at the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial.

    • Replies: @Wally
  335. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @academic gossip

    Eisenhower in fact specifically anticipated Holocaust revisionism and made a point of being personally photographed at German concentration camps in front of piles of dead prisoners

    Even the official version holds that there were no death camps in Germany.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  336. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Typically annamaria is all over the place. I don’t know whether Russian friends set her on her blogging path but I doubt they have increased her pay after initial probation.

  337. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    There is no doubt that this [persecution of Jews in Hungary and
    their expulsion from enemy territory] is probably the greatest and
    most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world,
    and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised
    men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of
    Europe.

    What does Churchill’s singling out Hungary as exceptional imply about the rest of the official version?

  338. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @academic gossip

    There is no doubt that this [persecution of Jews in Hungary and
    their expulsion from enemy territory]
    is probably the greatest and
    most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world

    How faithful is the bracketed language to the original intended referent of “this”?

  339. Anonymous [AKA "Pelagic Predator"] says:
    @Anon

    The translation of ‘ausrottung’ as ‘extermination’ colors the interpretation of the speech.
    In english you might translate it as ‘rooted out’. Anyway, the term ‘exterminate’ (from the latin ex terminus) literally means ‘taken to the boundaries’. So there you have it – ‘rooted out’ and expelled.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  340. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    In Wikopedia on the subject of Ron Unz, they state that he is not “anti-semetic”, but I think all that is going to change with this article. What is left to say to Mr. Unz except “duck”.

  341. @Bardon Kaldian

    hard-core holo-deniers

    What, precisely, is a “holo-denier”? And what constitutes a “hard-core” one?

  342. utu says:
    @Anon

    Yes, the self preservation. They did not want to go fight Soviets. The human material that was used to fill up positions of guards in concentration camps was not the best. Which is no different than it is with department of correction workers and parole officers nowadays.

  343. S says:
    @S

    The below excerpt from the account regarding Andersonville, the South’s Camps, and the 1870 Atlantic Monthly article has been corrected with the emboldened portion below…

    Andersonville and the Southern Camps

    At the conclusion of the Civil War in the Spring of 1865 the United States (Union) due in part out of bitterness due to its great losses incurred began a campaign that by way of a series of trials was to first try, and then to have executed by hanging, the entirety of the upper echolons of the political and military leadership of the defeated South (ie Jefferson Davis and his cabinet, General Robert E Lee and his subordinate generals) for ‘crimes against humanity’ allegedly involving the southern camp system, the main southern camp Andersonville with its associated rail depot being the centerpiece of this effort.

  344. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Why do you invite derision by such blatant nonsense as suggesting Jewish ancestry (and it’s relevance) for Churchill and getting the date of Lord Moyne’s assassination wrong by 9 years? (He was killed in 1944). As to ancestry see

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/churchills-jewish-ancestry-not_08.php

  345. JoeFour says:
    @Wally

    I’ve been on-board.

    Ron Unz has put himself in the gun sights and deserves the same respect (and blessings) as the gentlemen you mention (who can all be considered messengers of the truth).

    I find your response to me to be … well … a bit odd.

    Cheers.

  346. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Anon [121], it is the accomplished feat of Holocaustians to make people see with a greater clarity the horrors inflicted on Russia by the Jewish Bolsheviks in the first half of the 20th century, as well as the ongoing horrors inflicted on the civilian populations of the Middle East by Ziocons according to Yinon plan for Eretz Israel.
    The WWII was the World war so that many people of various ethnicities died. There is no sense to focus our sympathies on one, Jewish ethnicity that is known for its murderous habits towards Russians and Middle Easterners.
    “Although only around 4% of Russia’s population was Jewish, Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government … prior to World War II, Jews remained enormously over-represented in the Communist leadership, especially dominating the Gulag administration and the top ranks of the dreaded NKVD. … the inescapable conclusion is that in per capita terms Jews were the greatest mass-murderers of the twentieth century, holding that unfortunate distinction by an enormous margin and with no other nationality coming even remotely close.”
    Stop practicing your profiteering / extracting habits. They are disgusting.

  347. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    “…I am against all brainwashing & taboos.”
    You and Bardon Kaldian are both are for taboos and against the First Amendment when your ethnic sensitivity is affected. Live with that and do not pretend on being a free thinker.
    You are no Spinoza

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  348. I long thought the Holocaust was the greatest crime in human history premised on two beliefs.
    One, which remains, is that it was done by one of us, a modern Western nation. The other is that it was a concerted effort organised by the government and with few underlings showing their reluctance to wipe out the Jewish people from Europe – whether that was after expulsion had failed or not I didn’t consider.

    Where am I at now? There was a long history of German anti-Semitism. Particularly in the circumstances created by WW1, the Bolshevik Revolution, related insurgencies, and the Depression of the early 1930s blaming of the Jews and violence toward opponents, political or ethnic (and/or religious perhaps) became much more thinkable and likely and old ideas of extermination by no means unsayable. Hitler and his gang themselves entertained and represented this strain of thought very strongly. Hitler, however, knew he must dissemble about all sorts of matters on which most respectable Germans, and foreigners in particular, would draw the line. Moreover in his scale of priorities, in 1933, squeezing money out of Jews while that squeezed them ju them out of the country suited him fine as an initial goal. Ostjuden were already seen as a problem before September 1939, and the idea of a large number being added to an extended German Reich was a disastrous prospect so he was perfectly content to let his most ferociously anti Semitic henchmen like Himmler sort it out with the same care he showed in concealing what would cause the Nazis unnecessary trouble, even to some extent in Germany, if it was generally understood. There were so many reasons for shooting or encouraging locals to shoot Jews where Einsatzgruppen followed in the wake of Barbarossa that the case for it to happen, and that it did happen, was overwhelming. That, after the Wannsee conference, more comprehensive destructive measures against the Eastern European Jews were taken seems to be the only explanation covering the mass transportation of Jewish women, children and the elderly from France, Holland, Belgium and Hungary. Numbers? Irrelevant.

    BTW… As I meant to say in answer to some wittering about how efficient Germans *would have* killed those unfit for work Zyclon B may have been primarily an insecticide (therefore cheap and maybe less likely to raise suspicions) but it was cyanide based so a pretty efficient medium for killing people crammed into a small space. Also, how can the chemists who have allegedly found too little cyanide residue be sure that they have examined everything needed to draw reliable conclusions given the extent of the destruction by retreating Germans? (I haven’t yet finished listening to Nicholas Kollerstrom as recommended by Ron so I may end up seeing Auschwicz as a sideshow in the Holocaust story but he hasn’t impressed me so far).

  349. Anonymous[908] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Typically annamaria is all over the place. I don’t know whether Russian friends set her on her blogging path but I doubt they have increased her pay after initial probation.

    Why don’t you have the integrity and honesty of character necessary to make accusations against annamaria using your own name, and addressing such posts to annamaria?

    • Replies: @Anon
  350. Anonymous[908] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    In Wikopedia on the subject of Ron Unz, they state that he is not “anti-semetic”, but I think all that is going to change with this article. What is left to say to Mr. Unz except “duck”.

    Jesus H. Mother-Humping Keerist!! The term “antisemitic” has been in existence and common usage for over 100 years. Why in the name of Satan can’t you dumbfucks SPELL it?

  351. @Wizard of Oz

    Why would they bother trying to use Zyklon B when they had Sarin?

    https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i41/Nazi-origins-deadly-nerve-gases.html

    In addition, Prussian Blue is a very stable compound and allegedly can still be found in the places where clothing etc was treated for lice. Cyanide reacts with the iron in bricks.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  352. S says:

    My guess is that Ron Unz with his American Pravda series of articles has concerns, as do more than a few others, about where the murderous fanaticism reflected in much of the language of what is termed the ‘radical left’ within the modern West is ultimately heading towards…ie he’d rather not be at the receiving end of a gunshot fired by a fanatical member of a ‘revolutionary tribunal’ irrespective of whether the person firing the gun is Jewish or Gentile, and hence the brutal personal honesty (the times demand it!) displayed in this series of articles which I can only commend.

    Would be members of ‘revolutionary tribunals’ in the United States and elsewhere might do well to recall the ultimate fate of some of their spiritual and political compatriots…ie France’s Robespierre (execution by guillotine) and many of the ‘Old Bolsheviks’ in Russia (death by gunshot fired into the base of their skulls)…as this fanatical murderousness has a way of coming around full circle.

    And just as Robespierre and the Old Bolsheviks found out it in years past, it won’t matter when that day comes around (as it likely will should these modern fanatics get their way) how much they blubber on about their lives and their ‘loyalty’.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  353. j2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Weird, all these sonderkommando’s were killed after a few weeks, so the story goes”

    So the story goes, and therefore it is strange to read that Nazis left 110 sonderkommandos alive, very stupid of them. And a strange case is also Henryk Tauber, who was sonderkommando much longer than a few weeks. I found only 12 sonderkommandos, who have testified, the first 7 escaped Auschwitz, of the others I do not know how they survived.
    1. Alfred Wetzler (alias Jozef Lánik)
    2. Rudolf Vrba
    3. Arnost Rosin
    4. Czesław Mordowicz
    5. Henryk (Tauber) Fuchsbrunner, sonderkommando 1943-1945
    6. Szlomo Dragan
    7. Abraham Dragan
    8. Alter Feinsilber
    9. Henryk Mandelbaum
    10. Filip Müller
    11. Milton Buki (Kaufmann)
    12. Dov Paiskovic
    Maybe muselman’s sonderkommando was one of these. Their testimonies have been scrutinized by the so called deniers. Some gave very a short time for cremation of a body. Would be good to know the name of the sonderkommando muselman refers to.

  354. bossel says:

    And although Germans are notorious for their extreme bureaucratic precision, this immense wartime project was apparently implemented without benefit of a single written document, or at least no such document has ever been located.

    That’s nonsense, there are more than enough documents that relate to the effort, decided in 1941, to exterminate Jews. The question is not whether there was a holocaust, only how large it was. Reasonable estimates range from 4 (eg. Reitlinger) to around 6 million (eg. Asmuss).
    Yad Vashem has over 4m individual names, at least 2m of which stem from documentary evidence.

    Considering the planned “deportation” of 11 m Jews (Wannsee conference, 1942):

    6m actual victims doesn’t seem too unreasonable.

    Most probably the number was somewhere between 5 & 6 million. I tend to rely on Rummel for democide. He usually has the most reasonable numbers.

    The problem is not that freaks like Irving get pummeled, but that 6m has become a dogma. & even if the numbers your research gets to are only slightly lower, in some circles you already become a holocaust denier.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
    , @j2
  355. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    Obviously, Hitler actually killed most of them, but without stunningly profligate and often outright idiotic Russian tactics, he never could have bagged so many.

    Forgive me but this is an idiotic statement borne of ignorance and, perhaps, of the ingrained Western propaganda. First, it wasn’t 16 million – the military, meaning combat, losses were roughly similar in the Russian and German Armies. Second, there were non-combat losses, which were way higher in the Russian army, since the Russians did not deliberately kill their German prisoners.

    Obviously, mistakes were made and stupid things done, particularly in the earlier phase of the war. But that was an inevitable learning curve, since before that war the Russian commanders at all levels lacked experience in the modern warfare, and many lacked even elementary education. But even then they didn’t do that badly: they made do with what they had in hand faced with the huge material superiority of the Germans.

    For example, it took the Germans led by venerable von Manstein, no less, 8 months to take Sevastopol in the spring of 1942. The Russians took it back in the spring of 1944 in 5 days suffering approximately 4-fold lower losses – in the attack, mind you – than the Germans.

    The Western sources on all these events are grossly inaccurate and prejudicial. They’ll all tell you about “the General frost” or “a pile of bodies”. Don’t pay attention to them.

    • Replies: @L.K
  356. @Colin Wright

    Of course the Holocaust happened. It’s tedious that there are so many who so monotonously insist otherwise.

    No, what’s beyond tedious is that there are so many apparently intelligent people who feel so compelled to monotonously bleat meaningless, thought terminating cliches like: “Of course the Holocaust happened.”

    If we’re going to even attempt to begin assessing whether or not “the Holocaust happened”, Colin, you’re going to have to stop monotonously bleating mindless mantras, and begin by defining and describing in a clear and concise manner what “the Holocaust” was and how it “happened”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  357. @Peripatetic commenter

    C’mon! Are you really saying you can’t see why they might have decided not to send Sarin to Auschwicz and have dumb soldier Schweik handle it?

  358. @S

    I think you Are referring to people who make it easier to believe in the prevalence of savage would be exterminators.

    • Replies: @S
  359. Hans says:

    Excellent short film of the persecutions of Rudolf, Zundel, and Cole: El Gran Tabu –

    The revisionist film that DESTROYED a film festival! Victory in Baja! A Revisionist Dream Comes True: An unprecedented step forward for the Holocaust revisionist movement by the late, great Bradley R. Smith

  360. j2 says:
    @bossel

    “6m actual victims doesn’t seem too unreasonable.”

    But it does seem unreasonable in the sense that only 4.5M are missing if you subtract AJCY figures in 1946 and 1939 and make known corrections for emigration out of Europe.

    “I tend to rely on Rummel for democide. He usually has the most reasonable numbers.”

    What could mean the most reasonable numbers? The Jewish population of Eastern Europe is very uncertain. There are no “usually most reasonable numbers”. There are estimates. Divide Poland to West and East by the border after 1939. Then calculate how many were in West, where the population figures are fairly reliable. Take into account transfers between East and West not through Operation Reinhard camps, West including all outside the SU of 1940 and Romania. Subtract all known losses everywhere but Auschwitz and known survivors. You will end up to the upper bound 400,000 to Auschwitz, meaning the official version is clearly wrong. Indeed “I tend to rely…” Please, calculate the figure and do not rely on “usually the most reasonable numbers”.

  361. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    And you are? Actually some good advice to Colin Wright not to waste his time. Maybe you should take the benefit too.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  362. Wally says:
    @bossel

    “Documents”? What documents? Laughable. Post them if you have them and get educated.

    As for Wannsee, there was a conference, yawn, however:
    The Wannsee Conference Protocol, Anatomy of a Fabrication
    By Johannes Peter Ney : https://codoh.com/library/document/934/?lang=en
    and: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=wannsee
    and:
    Wannsee Conference minutes debunked: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1647
    and: A fresh look at the Wannsee Conference minutes.: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11741

    And due to obvious war complications, Hitler decided that the ‘Jewish question’ would be decided AFTER the war.
    Schlegelberger Document

    “Mr Reich Minister Lammers informed me that the Führer had repeatedly declared to him that he wants to hear that the Solution of the Jewish Problem has been postponed until after the war is over. That being so, the current discussions are of purely theoretical value, in Mr Reich Minister Lammers’ opinion. He will moreover take pains to ensure that, whatever else happens, no fundamental decisions are taken without his knowledge in consequence of a surprise briefing by any third party.”

    Document’s origins. Schlegelberger’s undated minute on Lammer’s reference to Hitler’s ruling is in German Federal Archives (BA) file R.22/52. It was sent to Staatssekretär Freisler and two other officials (bottom left).
    This document has been published in facsimile in David Irving’s books Hitler’s War, Goebbels. Mastermind of the Third Reich, and Nuremberg, the Last Battle. It was definitely dated March or April 1942. Lammers was in Berlin on April 26, 1942.
    See Scheel’s report on a talk between Lammers and Meissner after the final session that day (T175/139/7479 et seq.)

    In support of the Schlegelberger Document see the Luther Memorandum: http://www.codoh.com/library/document/154/

    Hitler, the ‘Final Solution,’ and the Luther Memorandum, A Response to Evans and Longerich
    excerpt:
    “On the occasion of a reception by the Reich Foreign Minister on 26 November 1941 the Bulgarian Foreign Minister Popoff touched on the problem of according like treatment to the Jews of European nationalities and pointed out the difficulties that the Bulgarians had in the application of their Jewish laws to Jews of foreign nationality.”

    “The Reich Foreign Minister answered that he thought this question brought by Mr. Popoff not uninteresting. Even now he could say one thing to him, that at the end of the war all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer and also the only way to master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be applied and individual measures would not help very much.”

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  363. @Colin Wright

    Actually, Wally. Maybe World War Two didn’t happen at all — any of it.

    Can you prove it did? Hmm? Hmm? Wally? Wally?

    You’re right. This is incredibly easy.

    No one is disputing that World War Two happened, Colin.

    Can you please define and describe in a clear and concise manner what “the Holocaust” was and how it “happened”, in order that we may begin assessing whether or not “the Holocaust happened”.

    Thanks in advance.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  364. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Flying Dutchman

    Don’t be mysterious or cryptic. Spell out how Judaism destroyed the ancient world. It sounds like some grandfather teasing his bright 10 to 15 year grandchildren with a bit of nonsensical paradox to work out.

    • Replies: @Flying Dutchman
    , @Robjil
  365. anastasia says:
    @muselman3295

    Have you ever closely questioned your friend. I doubt it. You were probably afraid to question him, for fear of bringing up a sore subject. Or perhaps it never even occurred to you to question him. But I would start there, if I were you.

  366. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You’re in over your head.

    – So present your proof for the alleged massive Einsatzgruppen shootings that you claim. The Industry says that ca. 2,000000 Jews were shot and to this day their remains lay in mass graves.

    – Please show these alleged immense human remains that Jews claim still exist at alleged locations.

    – Zyklon-B was not cheap, quite the contrary. The insecticide required much more processing, expense, and labor to produce vs. the much more efficient & readily available sarin and tabun.

    – Please tell us how the alleged gas chambers worked.

    Germar Rudolf utterly destroys the Zyklon B / cyanide absurdity, impossibility.
    more from Master Chemist Germar Rudolf:

    The Rudolf Report / Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html
    and:
    ‘Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz and Birkenau’, by Master Chemist Germar Rudolf: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html

    http://www.codoh.com

  367. @Wizard of Oz

    Wait. The Germans efficiently organized the extermination of 6M Jews and incinerated the bodies at a time when they needed all the coal and oil/gasoline they could get their hands on, but they couldn’t find soldiers who could handle nerve gas carefully?

    Is that the new narrative?

  368. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Even more silly was the alleged use of a pesticide, Zyklon-B, in the first place.

    The Germans had huge stocks of very efficient, low amounts required, Sarin & Tabun nerve gases they could have used had they actually wanted to exterminate people.

    The entire Zyklon-B issue is truly laughable.

    see: b> Zyklon-B help!: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10798
    much more:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=sarin+tabun

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  369. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally

    Wally,

    Are you Unz’s guard dog or what?

    But in any case, why don’t you post that picture of a mechanical shovel again. That might finally convince everyone that no Jews at all were harmed in any way by the Nazis who sent them to concentration camps from all over Europe, including France and Italy, for their own health and happiness.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  370. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Wow!
    You’re panties are in a twist.
    Obviously I’m now inside your head.

    No worries, cognitive dissonance can be a bitch.
    Calm down, just admit it, & get it over with.
    The ‘holocaust’ narrative is preposterous any way you look at it.
    All Revisionists are former Believers.

    recommended:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos
    https://shop.codoh.com/category/22

    http://www.codoh.com

  371. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    The problem is not so much for Ron Unz, a very rich, self-employed Jew. The problem will be for ordinary folks who thoughtlessly echo Unz’s sentiments, bolstered perhaps by Wally’s picture of a steam shove. People, in other words, folks who don’t know what they are talking about. For them, career, social standing and even personal liberty may be put at stake.

    On the plus side, the ADL and Canada’s very own B’nai Brith must love this kind of incitement to anti-Semitism. It’s what brings the money in and the publicity flowing. They will of course not criticize Unz, but the innocents so readily persuaded by the Unz and Wally team should watch out.

  372. Wally says:
    @j2

    Right, and many have seen witches & werewolves too.

    However, there were many who volunteered to work & Germany and get paid.

    http://www.codoh.com

  373. Anonymous[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Muh 6 Gorrillion!!!!!!!!

    If we’re going to even attempt to begin assessing whether or not “the Holocaust happened”, Colin, you’re going to have to stop monotonously bleating mindless mantras, and begin by defining and describing in a clear and concise manner what “the Holocaust” was and how it “happened”.

    Where would such an “assessment” end up? It is 2018. Jewish/Israeli monetary monopoly and control dominates the globe, and ruthlessly controls the actions of all western so-called “democracies”.

    What goddamn difference does any 75-years-past “holocaust” make? Why would any sensible, intelligent individual spend two freaking microseconds of concern with the topic? Such activity is an utter, self-destructive waste of time.

  374. Anonymous[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    And you are? Actually some good advice to Colin Wright not to waste his time. Maybe you should take the benefit too.

    Nah. How about I make it a practice to point out what a miserable asshole you are for attacking posters behind an alias and misogynist prejudice? What’s your druthers, bruvver? Once a day? Twice a day? One for one? Two for one?

    Act like a man, you puling adolescent.

  375. j2 says:
    @bossel

    “Most probably the number was somewhere between 5 & 6 million. I tend to rely on Rummel for democide. He usually has the most reasonable numbers.”

    The issue is not selecting numbers that you think reasonable. That would be like flipping a coin. I think 5 to 6 million is most reasonable, so I pick up that number, and this Rummel has numbers that I like, so I rely on him. No, this is not the way to do it. If there is a controversy on something you must find out which one is correct and have reasons for it, not that someone is more reasonable because you like some 5-6M number. You must have a solid proof.

    There is one set of numbers to start with, they are the AJC Yearbook numbers, they are the oldest, to them one can make justified corrections if there is good reason to do so. For Western Europe these numbers are very much the same for every analysis, even your Rummel must have almost the same numbers.

    Directly calculating from these numbers and including emigration (before the war from Germany and Austria, legal, illegal and from the DP camps after 1946), which AJCY forgets and correcting an error on Romania you get to 4.5M, but by doing only this way you get one possible number for the death toll. You do not know if it is more reasonable than some other. Therefore you must do differently. You need a proof, not reasonable numbers.

    Do it like this. First you start with the Western Europe and Western Poland and calculate if the figures make sense. This gives you a compelling reason to doubt the Auschwitz death toll, as you get an upper bound 400,000 that is much smaller than the official death toll for Jews, 1-1.5M. Now, and only now, and you check that for sure you did not make any mistake and these Western numbers are quite reliable. This gives you the first proof: all sent to Auschwitz did not die. They were sent from there to other camps.

    Now you can continue to calculate the 4.5M. But while you do it, what you notice is a second problem in the official explanation: the DP camps. There came 270,000 Jews from the East to the DP camps. This you can completely show by calculating how many emigrated from those DP camps and how many were left there after 1946. This second proof. 270,000 Jews did pass the Operation Reinhard camps alive. Now you really start to doubt the official explanation.

    The final gives 4.5M, but then you start asking if the Jewish population in the SU of 1940 was 2.8M+1.55M=4.35M. The 1.55M is Eastern Poland and 2.8M is the rest. How do we know it was this figure? Check the growth of the USA Jewish population. Yes, it grew 1M too fast. Consider if 0.5M of Polish Jews were not in France and other Western Europe as recent arrivals, maybe?

    It is really a most ridiculous way to approach a controversial problem to “tend to rely” on numbers provided by one of the sides in this controversy. Naturally, you have to do the calculations yourself in order to form your opinion on it. Numbers taken from some author give the result that the author already obtained. You need a solid proof to resolve a controversy.

    • Replies: @Wally
  376. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “But not if you try to advance a hypothesis that some of the epidemics were spread by Jews.”

    Actually diseases were indeed spread by Jews.

    “Which brings us to the larger issue of Weindling’s extreme apologetic tendencies. That Eastern European Jews – like virtually any other Eastern Europeans – were vectors of typhus and other diseases endemic to the region is a simple fact. “

    source:
    Typhus and Cholera, Nazis and Jews, a Book Review, By Samuel Crowell: https://codoh.com/library/document/3002/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

  377. Wally says:
    @CalDre

    see:
    Roman Yushkov: First Russian On Trial for ‘holocaust denial’
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11965

    And that’s one of best indicators that the matter is a fraud which cannot withstand scrutiny, as we are proving right here at https://www.unz.com
    Only lies require censorship.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  378. S says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I think you Are referring to people who make it easier to believe in the prevalence of savage would be exterminators.

    Hmmm. No, within the context of my entry I’m referring specifically as stated to:

    ‘..the murderous fanaticism reflected in much of the language of what is termed the ‘radical left’ within the modern West..’

  379. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    In Wikopedia on the subject of Ron Unz, they state that he is not “anti-semetic”, but I think all that is going to change with this article. What is left to say to Mr. Unz except “duck”.

    Lol, yeah, Unz’s previous American Pravda pieces (rabbis pray to Satan; Jews did kidnap & kill Christian children to use their blood in making matzos; Nazi Germany helped in the founding of Israel; et al.) were within bounds. But now, with this piece, Ron will definitely be scratched off of the list of potential keynote speakers at Abe Foxman’s 80th birthday celebration at ADL headquarters.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
  380. @jilles dykstra

    ‘I indeed did not read the book, did not even know it.
    About
    Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, ‘Hitler’s gewillige beulen’, Antwerpen 1996 (Hitler’s willing executioners; ordinary Germans and the holocaust, New York 1996)
    I suppose, Goldhagen is an idiot.’

    He is. Hitler’s Willing Executioners’ has some astonishing logical holes in it.

    Goldhagen appears to belong to the tribe of ‘vengeful German Jews.’ This is my term for those assimilated German Jews who abruptly found themselves cast out of Germany in the thirties — and to judge by their subsequent careers, appear to have vowed revenge. In Goldhagen’s case, the hurt was actually visited on his father, but as the son’s work demonstrates, proved heritable.

    As with another work of propaganda on behalf of Jewry — Joan Peter’s From Time Immemorial — what’s disturbing wasn’t the book itself. People write all kinds of books, advocating all kinds of things. It was the rapturously uncritical reception accorded it. In both cases the work was transparently flawed. Yet it took some time, and some insistent raised voices, for this to be accepted.

    • Replies: @utu
  381. Che Guava says:
    @utu

    Vonnegut was a P.o.W. in Dresden you fool, sure, he didn’t know exact numbers, but he was sure experiencing it. HE WAS THERE.

    That you try to conflate his work with a writer you dislike (and whose work I respect) really has convinced me that you are just a stupid propagandist.

  382. Wally says:
    @red-ice

    Yawn, I see the “difference”, but so what? It’s apparent that torture was used in many trials.

    The real question is why are you trying to whitewash Nuremberg?

    Here you go, Google search: testicles nuremberg van roden

    Oops!

    http://www.codoh.com

  383. @Muh 6 Gorrillion!!!!!!!!

    ‘No one is disputing that World War Two happened, Colin.’

    No, I choose to dispute that it happened. I just did.

    Now, demonstrate the contrary. Need I mention that no form of evidence you would reject if it came to establishing the reality of the Holocaust will be accepted when it comes to establishing World War Two occurred?

  384. Vox Day raises an interesting possibility:

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/08/aristotle-and-holocaust.html

    However, Ron Unz’s iconoclastic piece got me thinking about the logic of the historical situation as we know it and some of the anomalies that have proven so difficult to resolve in a satisfying manner, massive anomalies that have led to criminal accusations of Holocaust denial on the one hand and charges of shameless historical mythmaking on the other. But what if both parties are basically correct concerning their primary points of emphasis? What happens if, in the spirit of theoretical skepticism, we simply apply straightforward logic to the facts as we observe them to be.

    Major Premise: A very large quantity of Jews were killed in the 1936 to 1945 time frame.

    Minor Premise: The meticulously bureaucratic Germans, for whom historians possess a tremendous quantity of historical documents related to the WWII era, do not appear to have kept any records of any of the many aspects of the logistical and operative decisions and actions required for the major premise, nor did they have the motive or the opportunity to thoroughly eliminate those records.

    Conclusion: Someone other than the Germans killed most of those Jews.

    Hmmmm, who might that be?

    Vox leaves us with this thought:

    And finally, a Soviet Holocaust might also explain the insane neocon obsession with going to war with Russia. Are they really that bitter about the Tsars, who vanished into history more than 100 years ago? Or is it possible they are seeking revenge for a more recent historical offense?

    • Replies: @Wally
  385. Ron Unz says:

    A couple of very old-time libertarians dropped me notes, generally commending my article, but noting some factual errors that I would now like to now correct.

    First, the late Murray Rothbard was apparently not an outright Holocaust Denier. Apparently, he was quite cautious about accepting either side of the debate and believed that additional research was necessary to resolve the issue. But he was very critical of the attempts to suppress such further investigation.

    It’s very easy to imagine how this sort of position could have gotten garbled after so many decades, especially if he did sometimes ridicule those trying to enshroud it in a near-religious aura.

    Also, David Hoggan was apparently a tenured professor at San Francisco State around the time he produced his manuscript of The Myth of the Six Million in the early 1960s. Apparently some time afterward, he suffered a nervous breakdown and eventually resigned, or at least that’s the claim that was made by a prominent former colleague in an oral histery, and the details are a little unclear, but this professional trajectory seems quite plausible. The explicit published claim I read that he was at Stanford in the late 1960s is either a very strange error, or perhaps he later quietly held some sort of temporary position there.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @Sam
    , @L.K
  386. Wally says:
    @j2

    The real questions are:

    1. How were they supposedly killed?

    2. Were the alleged methods logically, physically, & scientifically possible?

    3. What were the alleged specific procedures taken to achieve these alleged immense killings?
    The alleged ‘gassings’ for example.

    3. What proof for these alleged immense killings actually exist?

    4. Why are there no immense human remains that are alleged to be in known locations?
    No immense human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

    Imagine in a real / legit court of law where someone claims that millions of people were murdered and dumped into allegedly known mass graves, but then could not produce the claimed mass graves and the alleged contents. They would be laughed out of that court.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  387. Hrw-500 says:
    @Hans

    Thanks for sharing that link Hans! I founded another one who included cartoons from Brazilian cartoonist Carlos Latuff about Charlie-Hebdo double standards.
    https://anonhq.com/charlie-hebdo-fired-anti-semitic-cartoonist-ridiculing-judaism-2009/

    • Replies: @Hans
  388. Wally says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    posted:
    “Conclusion: Someone other than the Germans killed most of those Jews. ”

    No doubt the communist Soviet gulags and executions consumed some Jews along with the massive numbers of Christians, but one has to apply the same science and rational thought to that claim as one does with the claim of German guilt.

    Heretofore I see nothing to support that claim other than armchair musing.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @Mike P
  389. utu says:
    @Colin Wright

    Goldhagen appears to belong to the tribe of ‘vengeful German Jews.

    Look at what was the Godhagen affair about? Whether he was vengeful or not it does not matter. It was about money. The Holocaust Industry wanted to keep squeezing Germany while Germans thought in their naivety that they have already paid enough. And it worked. Germany began donating submarines to Israel. Goldhagen did his job. How was he hired for it or how did he know what was his job I do not kno but it worked. Strangely however there was a controversy and the new Chair at Harvard that was specially funded for Goldhagen by a rich Jewish donor was not given to him. He was not hired for the tenured position. Is it possible that rich German foundations exerted some pressure on Harvard wanting to send the message to the future Goldhagens that Germany will not succumb to more extortions?

  390. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    WWII does not defy laws of science, rational thought, & logic.
    The ‘holocaust’ story certainly does.

    Choose to deny WWII if you wish. No one will try to send you to jail for doing so.

    Wow, you’re really grasping.

    Anyway, cheers

    http://www.codoh.com

  391. Surely this is a parody?

    https://www.historiography-project.org/1946/02/13/pedalactuated-brainbashing-mac/

    “In this small room there was a slot in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8 days a new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the room. The personnel working in the room belonged to the above-mentioned Sonderkommando.” (Emphasis changed from the original.)

  392. Isabella says:

    To start with, thank you Unz for producing this very fair and scholarly work.

    This whole issue of the Holocaust has been a difficult one to work through.

    Like millions of others, I have seen the films made by the liberating Armies, of the gaunt, starved walking skeletons in humiliating prison garb; had seen the video of a front end loader filled with naked bodies being shovelled into a mass grave; had seen the photo of a young woman clutching her baby to her breast gazing down into a pit, a uniformed Nazi with his pistol at her head.
    It seemed too much to deny.
    So I have never denied that the Nazi’s treated anyone who they disliked appallingly. This to include the mentally defective, Romanies, Christian Democrats [German ones too], and many Jews.
    They cannot be excused that crime.

    What I could not accept was the number. 6 million people is a lot of people. They are too many to hide. The grave sites for them would be utterly massive. Even Katyn was discovered, and that held about 22,000 bodies.
    Where would they put 6 million bodies? And this many could be proved, since, although sorting through limb and rib bones could be an onerous task, finding and counting skulls is very do-able.
    So do we have documents with picture, forensic evidence in other words, that demonstrates 6 million skulls found?? Because if so, I have never heard of it.

    Can we acknowledge that the German Nazi machine killed many people, including many jews, even if they were killed by starvation and neglect rather than extinguished in gas ovens, but doubt the number.? Does doubting the number count as being a “Holocaust Denier?”

    I would like to add that, contrary to the picture of the map of Europe and Russia, that Russia does NOT outlaw being a “Holocaust Denier”. It outlaws denying that the Nazis committed crimes, [any crimes] ; denying the role of the USSR in the battle to defeat the Nazis, and outlaws any mockery of those USSR soldiers who fought or in any way downgrading their fight.

    Thus it is very open – it doesn’t specify the Holocaust at all. IN this way this law in Russia has been badly misrepresented.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  393. Graham says:
    @escobar

    Hear, hear. Ron Unz’s views are a great pity, as are his provocative and irritating book recommendations (Mein Kampf etc.), which seem designed to suggest that unz.com is a Nazi site; because his site fills a real need inasmuch as it provides a platform for those denied platforms elsewhere. No, I don’t suggest that Nazi views should be censored, just that I would prefer that they didn’t appear on this site.

    Perhaps Steve should consider moving. Steve is in a small minority of rational writers on unz.com, together with John Derbyshire and James Thompson; and perhaps a couple of others.

    My views don’t matter, but I’d like to say (i) that I believe the Germans murdered several million Jews in WW2; (ii) whether you call that a holocaust is immaterial; (iii) holocaust denial should not be a crime – free speech should be absolute.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Wally
  394. @Anon

    Well, a little bit of old-fashioned European history for you;

    this Jewish prophet (Richard Perls was his name) was, like his friend Klages, a paganist, who saw Christianity as a Jewish sect, bringing the Roman empire to its knees, and with it a whole nature-centered ancient world.

    As for the modern world – we see Zionists behind and among the neocon psychopaths, using the ‘holocaust’ as one of their weapons, driving the whole world to a nuclear, real holocaust.

    Cryptic, what?

  395. phil says:
    @Anon

    There is a big difference between 0.5 million, or 1 million, and 6 million people. The Ukrainian Holodomor (“terror famine”) of the early 1930’s quite arguably involved more deaths than the Holocaust, but where are the Holodomor movies, the Holodomor Studies programs, and laws preventing people from questioning the severity of the Holodomor?

    • Replies: @Anon
  396. I have been just reading the book by Shlomo Sand, “The Invention of the Land of Israel”. He speaks in it about “semantic manipulation” that was used to justify the colonization of Palestine. What he explains more generally is the creation of myths to justify a project of conquest and power. Months ago I also read an article which spoke of a tomb which was a tomb of the 17th or 18th century of a Palestinian Sheik near which people of the villages around used tradicionally to gather and make their fests. This tomb was later transformed by Zionists in an old tomb of some Jewish patriach and nowadays religious Jews go there to pray to a supposed patriarch who in reality is a Palestinian sheik. Judaism and the country seems to be linked very strongly with myths. Zionism is based on myths which falsify reality. Because of that I think that it’s important to question what we are told.

    Concerning the H., I heard and read in the last years many stories which are difficult to understand immediately according to our popular ideas and to the official H. paradigma. There are all kind of stories, of things that need some explanation. Clearly many Jews who were in concentration camps had never heard of gas chambers until the end of the war. Once i saw an interview with a survivor who told that she had been born in a concentration camp where she lived with her mother and two older sisters. How did she survive? I saw on tv an Israeli who had been in a KZ who told that he learned about the H. only after the war. I read the book by Joachim Fest about the colapse of the nazi regime. He tells a lot about what was being discussed during the last months, weeks and days of the regime and it’s surprising that they never seemd to have any concerns about anything related to the H. There is an interview in which a man says that he was scheduled to the gas chambers but was saved because on that day he got sick and was sent to a hospital. There are other absurd stories.

    Two of the secretaries of Hitler and Goebbels (if I remember rightly) told that they never heard anything related to the H. At least one of them became very antinazi, didn’t doubt the H., warned about right radical parties, but said when she was already very old that she had never heard anything about the H. while working on the center of power. This is just the beginning of such stories which need explanation. I think that it would be important that historians give a careful explanation for such things that you read in newspapers or see on tv which are difficult to understand for a layman. History is made of myths and we need to get a clear view which reflects reality more closely.

    (initially I had written a commentary mentioning details of those cases that I heard but decided not to post the commentary).

  397. j2 says:
    @Wally

    Wally, your questions are good but you cannot give them answers in such a way that would immediately convince anybody. But try this:

    Assume 1.45M dead in Operation Reinhard camps, 0.15M in Chelmno, 1M in Auschwitz, 0.41M survived in concentration camps after the war. The sum of these numbers is 3M and you agree that these are the numbers that are proposed, Auschwitz even on the lower border. Now, notice that all of these camps are in present day Poland, about the same as Western Poland that Germany took 1939.

    How many Jews were in Western Poland in the war time? Well, there were about 3.3M Jews in Poland, divided into 1.8M in the West and 1.5M in the East after some 180,000 escaped to the east just before the German attack. And from Western Europe Germans transported about 1.2M. If all of them ended to Western Poland, the total is 3M. Additionally there were small direct transports from East to West and West to East, but these added only 60,000 to the Western Polish Jews. Thus, there were 3.06M Jews and we already explained the fate of 3M of them. There is 60,000 left.

    So, where are the death tolls from ghettos in Western Poland (0.17M), camps in Germany (0.3M) and Theresienstadt (0.03M) and deaths from German 1939 attack and terror (0.05M), which make
    together 0.55M? Nowhere. The death toll in Auschwitz must be only 0.45M. But as 1-1.5M Jews were taken to Auschwitz, this means that over half were transported to other camps, which means that the official story is absolutely wrong! And this is undeniable.

    Then we can reconsider if there were 3.3M Jews in Poland. Maybe some had moved to France and other Western Europe. Must be so because if the official story for Auschwitz is wrong, then we may just as well assume that only 60,000 Jews died there. Thus, the Jewish population in Western Poland was 0.3-0.4M smaller and the Polish Jewish population 0.5M smaller. That is 2.8M.

    Then we do the calculation of DP camps. There were 0.41M Jewish camp survivors when the war ended. In 1946 250,000 Jews in DP camps. Between 1946 and 1948 138,000 immigrated legally to Palestine, so 112,000 were left. But after 1948-53 Israel took 338,000 Jews from DP camps, the USA 137,00 and Canada and South Africa 20,000. So, there were 112,000 and 495,000 were taken. It means that after 1946 to the DP camps came 383,000. Of them 123,000 were from Romania, 104,00 from Poland, the rest 268,00 must have come from the SU and they must be Jews who survived the Operation Reinhard camps. That means, the official story is wrong. Those were not total extermination camps.

    If the official story is wrong with Operation Reinhard camps, we may assume that the death toll in these camps was only some 150,000, say. So, 1.3M passed them to the SU. Then we can ask how many died in the SU and for what reason. Supposedly in the SU in 1941 were 1.3M+2.8M=4.1M Jews and there came 1.3M more through the Operation Reinhard. That is 5.4M. The SU claimed that 2M survived and 268,000 went to the DP camps (round to 0.3M), so 3.1M would have died in the SU. That seems clearly too high, so we assume that the Jewish population in the SU of 1940 was 1M less, they immigrated to the USA through some other country and as non-Jews. This reduces the death toll to 2.1M.

    The last step is a bit speculative: 2.1M in the East may still be too high by 0.5M, because the population growth in the SU was probably smaller than 1.4%, so the final death toll may be 1.6M in the East and 0.8M in the West, total 2.4M.

    So, this is my simple way and you can derive from that where Jews died and that the death ratios are typical to concentration camps. Let us look at your questions:

    You want to pose the question if Jews could have been gassed in Auschwitz. I cannot see why it would be logically impossible to gas people. I agree that there should be Prussian Blue in gas chamber walls, but we know that many people deny this. You try to claim that bodies could not be burned to leave no traces to the mass graves, I agree, but they do not, and where is your proof that Germans could not manage to do such a miracle of technology. You want proofs of killings, documents, photos and so on. They give you these all. You claim they are forgeries, they claim they are authentic. That is, your questions do not solve the problem. You cannot make a simple proof with them. A proof must be so simple that it is undeniable. Rudolf’s chemistry is not undeniable as anybody can say that I do not understand chemistry and our expert says that Rudolf is wrong. So, there went your argument. But my addition and subtraction, well, they can do it.

    Wally, you have good links, but think about the strategy: how can you convince a person who does not like to be convinced? It must be simple and undeniable.

    By the way, Wally, if your comment on werewolves was to my comment that a young Polish girl was taken to work in Germany, then that case I know to be true, happens to be a person I know very well and can completely trust on this, the same the other case.

    • Replies: @Wally
  398. Otterboy says:

    As someone who used to be Jewish and believed everything I was told when I was growing up in a Jewish community in London, I have thoroughly researched the mainstream narrative of the holocaust religion

    This included reading most of the material listed in Ron Unz’s article (for and against) and two separate personal visits to Auschwitz. My research into this period of history began after a friend of mine gave me a copy of the Butz book. I was so sure it was all lies, I set about trying to debunk it.

    Unfortunately, many years later, I realised I could not debunk it and had to concede that the narrative of the holocaust that we have been led to believe simply didn’t happen

    It’s strange that I can openly argue, deny, revise and discuss ANY historical period in any country in the world EXCEPT this particular one. I can disagree with certain scholars who have researched the Atlantic slave trade, a human tragedy far more horrific than the alleged events of the holocaust. Some argue that the total death toll was ‘only’ around 8 – 9 million. Others argue that the figure was closer to 30 million and also argue that Jews had a prominent role in that disgraceful period of our history

    But in a growing list of countries, any such debate on the holocaust could land me in jail. This is the only period of human history since the beginning of human sentient time where a historical narrative can only be agreed with. Any diversion from that strictly narrow narrative can land you in jail in some countries and ruin your career in many others

    How have we allowed this to happen? It’s the beginning of the end of free speech

    Ron Unz is an incredibly brave human being. He’s obviously a very intelligent person and knew full well before he wrote this what the likely repercussions would be to him personally

    He has my utmost RESPECT

    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Art
  399. kikl says:

    The article is just as astonishing as the comment section. Very few dare to defend the historicity of the holocaust here.

    The best information from a revisionist point of view can be found here:

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/

    There is a small gang of amateur historians who try to refute the revisionists:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

    Unfortunately, the gang members are more concerned with vile insults and the like than with serious scholarship. The mainstream historians, save for few exceptions, have not picked up the gauntlet.

    I am curious to see how the Jewish establishment will react.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Haxo Angmark
  400. @Wally

    I was quoting the article, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that sooner or later, it was going to draw the ire of a “all the things the Nazis were accused didn’t happen, and they’re no better than the Allies (but really the Allies were way way worse)” type. And of course, more link spam to CODOH.

    • Replies: @Wally
  401. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    “I doubt they have increased her pay after initial probation.”
    — Are you speaking from your own experience of a paid shill?
    Why don’t you address the main point of my post, namely, the stupidity of Holocaustinas who insist on their incomparable victimhood while attacking the First Amendment? Moreover, the documented history is not kind towards the “chosen” whether it is the ongoing slaughter in the Middle East (see the touching relationships between Israel and “moderate” jihadis of ISIS and the role of ziocons in promoting the wars in the ME) or the history of Jewish Bolshevism in Russia (see Kaganovitch, Frankel, and the despicable Rozalia Zalkind: https://enigmachannel.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/the-worlds-most-evil-woman/
    Why cannot historians study the claims of Holocaustians such as the dim-wit Lipstadt? Why could the US states (see TX) deprive their citizens of a disaster relief if the citizens do not sign a pledge to never-ever criticize Israel? https://mondoweiss.net/2017/10/hurricane-requires-residents/
    Again, Anon [436], what are the causes of anti-Zionism? — Perhaps it is the ethnic snobbery and stupidity that make some Jews repulsive for the natives?

  402. Mulegino1 says:

    There are not enough fingers in the world to plug up the failing dike of the Church of Shoahism:

    There was no plan or policy to murder any Jews in Europe, or any other Jews- with the exception of the Jewish Commissars on the Eastern Front.

    Every authentic document issued under the authority of the Reich indicates that the policy was conceived of and maintained as the humane removal of the Jews from the German sphere of influence-not their mass murder.

    No credible murder weapon has ever been offered into evidence. The gas chamber stories of pesticide and non-lethal diesel exhaust are free inventions, and frankly, ridiculous. If the Germans had really desired the destruction of the Jews of Europe, why would they not have used the efficient measure of a bullet to the head, as did the NKVD at Katyn? The idea that the ultra-efficient Germans would have resorted to stupid improvisations such as knocking holes in the roofs of underground morgues and dropping pellets of pesticides through them is risible in the extreme.

    The only mass graves ever found on a scale commensurate with hundreds of thousands (let alone millions) of victims are those dug for victims of the Soviets, not the Germans or the SS.

    The idea that the remains of upwards of 4 million victims of the “Holocaust” could have been disposed of in a few dozen crematory muffles or in utterly implausible outdoor cremations is laughable. There is zero physical evidence for anything like this.

    The most likely scenario, according to the evidence on hand, is that the Jews suffered far less than any other European or belligerent nationality or ethnicity, during the Second World War.

    The entire narrative is a blood libel against all
    of the Christian nations and peoples of Europe and of European descent. If not checked, it will soon be an indictment upon all of the goyim in the world.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  403. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    If you are for evidence then what is your problem with studying the Holocaustians’ claims? Why have the researchers been put to prisons for investigating the numbers?
    Your allegedly high-brow declarations are simply dishonest, considering the pernicious influence of the Jewish Lobby on the WWII-related research.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Colin Wright
  404. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Any particular reason you omitted elements from, say:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Occult_Roots_of_Nazism

    • Replies: @Wally
  405. anarchyst says:
    @Otterboy

    If one honestly investigates the jewish holocaust ™ and comes to the conclusion that many of the claims concerning the jewish holocaust ™ are not only false but scientifically impossible, one can still be prosecuted for “improper thoughts”.
    You see, in Canada, and in many European countries, ANY deviation from the official holocaust ™ fable is punishable by fines and imprisonment. In addition, Canadian and European courts utilize the concept of “judicial notice” in which “commonly accepted beliefs” are sacrosanct, even if they can be proven false. Defendants in these “kangaroo courts” are not permitted to enter into evidence PROOF that certain holocaust ™ claims are indeed false, EVEN IF THEY CAN BE PROVEN SO. “Judicial notice”, in itself, turns the concept of “equal justice under law” on its head, and lends credibility to the fact that these “kangaroo courts” are not interested in the TRUTH, but have a deeper, far more insidious purpose–keeping the (false) claims of the jewish holocaust ™ alive and safe from scrutiny.
    You see, TRUTH is not part of these “kangaroo courts”. The jewish holocaust ™ has been turned into a “religion” in which NO deviation from the “official story” (orthodoxy) is allowed–even when holocaust ™ claims can be proven to be false.
    It is said that the light of day is the best disinfectant–except when it comes to “all things holocaust ™”.
    Monika Schaefer…
    Ursula Haverbeck…
    Both are grandmothers who are serving hard-time in German maximum-security prisons for daring to deviate from the “official” jewish holocaust ™ story.
    Question to holocaust ™ promoters…why are you so afraid of the TRUTH?

  406. Art says:
    @Graham

    My views don’t matter, but I’d like to say (i) that I believe the Germans murdered several million Jews in WW2

    Hmm – maybe we should look at the whole story?

    What role did the six million, gas chambers, soap, and lamp shades lie play in the takeover of America’s congress, media, money, and war making.

    Do you have any trouble with the Jew takeover of these American institutions and all the subsequent wars?

    Does what happened in WWII justify what is happening today?

    Two wrongs can never come out right.

    Think Peace — Do No harm — Art

  407. @Wally

    Schelegelberg document doesn’t meet your own standard for a legitimate document.

    – not official stationary,
    – no letterhead
    – no file no.
    – no indication of typist…standard procedure
    – it is cut off at the top and at the bottom
    – only ‘page 2′ is shown — in this case, no page numbering at all
    – could have been typed by anyone
    – completely unverifiable
    – it’s never said where and by whom was it discovered

    Only on the last point is your demand met — David Irving claims he found the document. But elsewhere you say Irving is a liar.

    So do you have objective standards of evidence or not?

    • Replies: @Wally
  408. Mike P says:
    @Wally

    Exactly. The burden of proof rests with the accusers – simply saying “this many people went missing in our statistic, therefore they must have been murdered” is not good enough.

    • Replies: @Anon
  409. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    The Ukrainian Holodomor (“terror famine”) of the early 1930′s quite arguably involved more deaths than the Holocaust, but where are the Holodomor movies, the Holodomor Studies programs, and laws preventing people from questioning the severity of the Holodomor?

    Great Famine is now estimated to have killed 3 to 3.5 million people. It used to be estimated at 8 million. So, it’s been halved. Also, Katyn Massacre estimates used to be 45,000. Now, it’s estimated at around 21,000. It seems many of these cases involve doubling of the number. So, maybe David Cole is right that the Shoah deaths could well be 3 million. But readjusting numbers is now considered denial. Suppose it’s common belief that 6,000 died in 9/11 but the number is closer to 3,000. Is the revised number a denial of the event?

    Cole is right in one regard. Holocaust Deists and Holocaust Deniers feed on one another. H-Deists push a mythic version of the Shoah that can be debunked on the details. And then the Deniers take those anomalies and falsehood and claim that it is ALL false.

    where are the Holodomor movies, the Holodomor Studies programs, and laws preventing people from questioning the severity of the Holodomor?

    Jews control the media. As for white people, they’ve come to worship Jews and follow the Official Narrative. Jews aren’t going to make movie that put themselves in a bad light. White people can do this, but they won’t out of reverence to Jews or out of fear.

    What we need is a cause or organization that is critical of Jewish Power without going nuts with denying Shoah and singing praises to Hitler. But too often, those who become critical of Jewish power tend to veer off into nutty territory.

    Ironically, Jews who wish all those Jews hadn’t been killed during WWII push for the highest possible estimate of Shoah deaths. And extreme anti-Jewish elements who are glad all those Jews were killed push for the lowest possible estimate. People who seek to minimize the deaths of their own kind in the future maximize the number of deaths in the past. I guess Past Tragedy justifies Present Actions for Future Security(and even Dominance).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Colin Wright
  410. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Please pay attention. It is confirmed by the Luther document, it was found by a verifiable source & location, and there is no reason to not accept it as fact, authentic.

    Specifics:

    the document’s origins:

    Schlegelberger’s undated minute on Lammer’s reference to Hitler’s ruling is in German Federal Archives (BA) file R.22/52. It was sent to Staatssekretär Freisler and two other officials (bottom left).”
    This document has been published in facsimile in David Irving’s books Hitler’s War, Goebbels. Mastermind of the Third Reich, and Nuremberg, the Last Battle. It was definitely dated March or April 1942. Lammers was in Berlin on April 26, 1942.
    See Scheel’s report on a talk between Lammers and Meissner after the final session that day (T175/139/7479 et seq.)

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  411. Chase says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    This is the problem: this is exactly the shit that Jews do that eventually always brings them to the same spot with whatever population they’re currently living among. They use Talmudism and pil pul to trick the natives. Those laws you read about? They may or may not have language explicitly saying what is and isn’t allowed, but you can bet your ass Hews wrote or at least heavily influenced the content of every single one of those laws in every single country. They then interperate broad or borderline issues extremely harshly *pour encourager les autres*. Eventually you get to a spot like today where any non-Jew saying anything about the so-called Holocaust that isn’t self-hatred is basically forbidden. This is literally JQ 101 stuff, but it has to be said, over and over and over…

  412. Wally says:
    @Graham

    Why do so many people want 6M Jews to be dead?

    Revisionists bring them life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered.

    Jews should be elated.

    http://www.codoh.com

  413. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia?

    When it comes to any topic that is known to be of special financial & political interests to supremacist Jews, and certainly there is no cash cow & political tool quite like the ‘holocau$t’ scam, you can bet the fix will be in. To them truth is irrelevant.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet
    https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    You really need read posts here before you blunder into more silliness.

    http://www.codoh.com

  414. Emanuel says:

    Like most people I believed in the holocaust narrative until an original picture of Auschwitz emerged without chimneys billowing smoke, at which point the forged picture was promptly removed from the holocaust archives! Also, what kind of truth requires laws criminalizing even dispassionate scrutiny? As for the figure of 6 million, it was touted soon after WWI but was an obvious whopper and the allegation was discarded. Additionally, I recommend reading:
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/978-1-59148-141-6-TellTruthShameDevil-2nd-LowRes.pdf

    Having said the above, I am not suggesting that the Nazis did not commit deplorable horrendous crimes. However, even now it is not too late to have a dispassionate forensic investigation of the holocaust and weed out fiction from fact.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Wally
  415. Wally says:
    @Unstremian

    Indeed, you quoted it because you believe in it. Simple stuff really.

    You are however welcomed to change your mind. All Revisionists are former Believers like you.

    And do quit desperately lying, no one said “the Nazis” never did anything wrong; but clearly they did nothing worse than what the Allies did and you have no proof otherwise. So there it is.

    Your dodge of my points is also noted.

    Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, eh?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Unstremian
  416. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike P

    In history, we can’t be sure of anything. Estimates of mass deaths are always based on statistical analysis and extrapolations. Especially in wars, so many documents were lost. And even in peace-time, we know numbers are often cooked. Consider financial and crime statistics. Pentagon can’t trace where gazillions went.

    We know that the land between Berlin and Moscow became a hell-hole. We know Hitler and his cohorts grew increasingly frustrated and angry as the war went badly. We know they harbored a genocidal ideology. They could be pragmatic and make momentary peace with enemies. They could be easy on Jews at times. Hitler made peace with Stalin for awhile. But the deep ideology of the Nazis was imperialist, genocidal, and supremacist.

    Now, look what the US did in Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. US had no genocidal ideology. If anything, it spoke of countering imperialism, fighting for human rights, and spreading democracy. But despite all that, the US did some of the things that amounted to War Crimes and near-genocidal destruction of peoples.
    So, if the US, with a humanitarian ideology, did all that, imagine what the Germans were capable of with an ideology steeped in talk of lebensraum and extermination. If people without genocidal ideology can commit horrors that come closer to genocide, those with genocidal ideology can surely be worse.

    In the 90s, US sanctions had a semi-genocidal impact on Iraqi women and children. Earlier in the 1980s, the US aided Hussein who was then killing 100,000 of Kurds in the North. If the US can be like that, Nazi Germany could have been worse. It is credible. In the bloodlands between Germany and Moscow, great horrors took place.
    There should a sober assessment of this, but the Jewish Narrative pushed the Omen Theory. Nazi Germany was ruled by Son of Satan and Jews were killed because they were angels. Hitler was a demonic figure, to be sure, and he brought ruination to Germany. But German madness was fed by Soviet and other madness, and Jews played a part in that too.
    Also, most Jewish victims were killed by guns, not gas. But because gas sounds more sinister, the Holocaust Narrative made it seem like gas was the main agent for the extermination.
    Also, entire generations of Jews grew up with this Narrative. It is their primary source of Jewish identity. So, they cling to it like Christians clung to the Narrative of Persecution by Romans.

    In a way, the holy victim mentality can be traced back to Christianity, which came to profoundly influence the West. The positive side of this mentality is sympathy for the oppressed and conscience(and atonement). The negative side is the tendency to fix a people as a permanent victim group. Because Jesus, His Disciples, and early Christians were persecuted and/or killed by Jews and pagan Romans, the prevailing idea became that All Christians for All Times are victims of heinous Christ-killing Jews and nasty vicious pagan heathens around the world. So, even when Christians had power over the Jews, Christians thought, “those powerful Jews killed Jesus and persecuted poor helpless early Christians”. Even as oppressors, Christians saw themselves as victims.
    And even when Christians conquered other peoples and killed them by the bushel, they thought, “those cruel heathen pagans are murdering and oppressing poor Christians”. So, the Christian West could be killing a 1000 heathens for every white Christian killed by heathens. Christians were the conquerors and oppressors, BUT the Christian mentality always framed the Christian-Heathen confrontation as akin to what pagan Nero did to Christians: Feeding them to the lions.

    To break free of Holocaustianty, the West also needs to break free of Christianity itself. West doesn’t have to entirely reject the religion, but it must identify and root out the Eternal-Victim-mentality of Christianity to be a sickness. Victim-hood is never permanent. Just because Chinese were victims of the West in the 19th century doesn’t mean they are still victims today. Things change. But currently, so many people’s hearts are clogged with the arterial plaque of Jews and blacks as Eternal Saints.

    Now, Jesus never believed in the politics of permanent victim-hood for peoples. If anything, He saw victimhood as a good thing, a necessary condition for salvation IF the victimized were to embrace their victim-hood and abandon all desire for revenge or power. Then, their souls could be saved by God. But the humanized, vulgarized, and/or secularized version of Christian mentality turned certain peoples into demons and certain peoples into angels. Some were seen as oppressors, and some as oppressed. But all peoples were oppressors and oppressed at one time of the other. Also, even among the oppressors there are the oppressed, and even among the oppressed, there are oppressors. Even if whites were oppressors in the past, white working class was oppressed by white owner class. And even if non-whites were oppressed by white imperialism, they had local forms of power where they oppressed others of their own kind. So fixing some groups as demons and others as angels is the height of stupidity and dangerous to boot.

  417. @Wally

    Those are Irving’s notes that you’re quoting. Is there some reason to trust Irving on this point?

    • Replies: @Wally
  418. Wally says:
    @kikl

    The “Holocau$t Industry” hates debate, their nonsense is too easily debunked. As admitted by Deborah Lipstadt above.

    Indeed, the ‘Holocaust Controversies’ boys have simply been crushed, see:

    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en
    and more:
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, Book Review, By Friedrich Jansson:
    https://codoh.com/library/document/3233/?lang=en
    plus:
    European Jews into the Occupied Eastern Territories, 1941-1944, by Thomas Kues: https://codoh.com/library/document/3207/?lang=en
    and:
    Patrick Desbois and the “Mass Graves” of Jews in Ukraine, by Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/3433/?lang=en
    and:
    Outdoor Incineration of Livestock Carcasses, by Heinrich Köchel : https://codoh.com/library/document/3361/?lang=en
    and:
    Belzec or the Holocaust Controversy of Roberto Muehlenkamp, by Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/975/?lang=en
    and tons more here:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=holocaust+controversies&fid%5B0%5D=2

    http://www.codoh.com

  419. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    Good post.

    Especially:

    Holocaust Deists and Holocaust Deniers feed on one another. H-Deists push a mythic version of the Shoah that can be debunked on the details. And then the Deniers take those anomalies and falsehood and claim that it is ALL false.

    and this even more:

    I guess Past Tragedy justifies Present Actions for Future Security(and even Dominance).

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
  420. Wally says:
    @j2

    Hello j2.

    – A lot of calculations, but not necessary at all.

    – The complete lack of human remains as claimed in allegedly known places does the job instantly.

    – Of course people can and have been executed in gas chambers, please no strawmen.
    But not as is alleged within the fake ‘holocaust’ narrative.
    The gas chambers as alleged were indeed simply scientifically, physically, logically impossible. It appears you do not actually know the claims about them, please read:

    The alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewd and demolished here.
    http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    – How does one convince someone who clings to his religion faithfully?
    It’s not that hard, after all, ALL Revisionists used to believe.
    Cognitive dissonance hits first, humans generally dislike being told they have been duped, initially they resist. But most humans eventually come round to their scientific, logical, empirical side, and there we go, another informed Revisionist.

    Then there are those don’t care about facts, they just want the benefits, the power received, the gravy train & cash to keep on rolling. They will probably never admit what they really know. That being the fact that ‘holocaust’ story does not withstand scrutiny.

    “There’s no business like $hoah business.”

    http://www.codoh.com

  421. bj says:
    @muselman3295

    Tell us more about your Sonderkommando Jew……

    Was he a tour guide for the Hollywood Holocaust Industry?

    Did he program you to fear the goyim in the USA might rise up and gas another 6,000,000 Jews?

    Did he program you to mindlessly support the Jews only apartheid state of Israel?

    Are you fabulating a blood libel against the German people?

  422. Mike P says:
    @Anon

    Now, look what the US did in Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. US had no genocidal ideology. If anything, it spoke of countering imperialism, fighting for human rights, and spreading democracy. But despite all that, the US did some of the things that amounted to War Crimes and near-genocidal destruction of peoples.

    Which only goes to show that your classification of evil according to ideology does not work. “The non-ideological US were bad, therefore the ideological Germans must have been worse” is a truly childish argument. Go find other children to argue with; the anon crowd is a rich resource (I recommend in particular Anon[436]). But spare me.

    • Agree: byrresheim
  423. Wally says:
    @Isabella

    said:
    “So I have never denied that the Nazi’s treated anyone who they disliked appallingly. This to include the mentally defective, Romanies, Christian Democrats [German ones too], and many Jews. They cannot be excused that crime. ”

    There is nothing to deny. Those alleged crimes simply did not happened and like the fake ‘6M Jews’ there is no proof that they did. Please post the proof, if you have it.

    Remember, besides the fake ‘6,000,000 Jews’ there’s the claim of ‘5,000,000 others’, like you somewhat mentioned. Those too were supposedly killed and buried into mass graves like the Jews allegedly were. There are no such human remains.

    You’re really just retreating to the typical ‘holocaust-lite’ phase. You just cannot bear to imagine that you have been completely duped / played, so you try to find some comfort in a fall back position. It’s part of the cognitive dissonance, it can be quite uncomfortable. All Revisionists went through it. We all used to believe.

    Yes, in Europe you would be arrested for saying what you have said in your post.
    The Zionists & their shills know that once the camel has his nose in the tent his ass will follow.
    Banning of free speech about this subject is a big red flag, it simply cannot withstand scrutiny at any level.

    The fact is that the Germans of the period did nothing any different than what the Allies and countries worldwide did. I welcome any challenge to that position.
    Keep your chin up.

    http://www.codoh.com

  424. The conservative historian Hillgruber documented 800 thousand jews men women an children executed during the year from nov 1941 to nov 1942. At that point the battle of Stalingrad and El Alamein would have made an impression on the nazi leadership.
    Logically it would seem possible that they discontinued the systematic genocide and that deaths after that would be from malnutrition etc. But an alternative hypothesis which seems more in line with Goebbells diaries would be that they continued as retribution for the losses of german life. However it doesnt take much fantasy to intuite that the documentation now followed a protocol aimed to cover up the killings.
    In addition it wouldnt seem illogical to find the killrate rendered higher.
    A little math then leads to extrapolations with the following total count until nov 1944
    If no further killings took place 0.8M
    The killrate remained the same 2.4M
    The killrate increased linearly to double in nov 1943 and thereafter remained constant: 3.6M
    The killrate increased linearly to treble in nov 1943 and thereafter remained constant: 4.8M

    In view of who funded Hitler it is obvious that it makes sense for that guilty party to offer the jews a bonus. So they wont see the need for bringing it up.
    Since what is missing in this discussion is that the angloamerican elites caused every bit of it. One german industrialist may have been funding Hitler without there being americans on the board or americans laundering their funding via german businessmen. Otherwise Germany was virtually an american technological colony.
    I should add that I wouldnt have considered it shocking if more germans would have preferred Hitler since the scene was set by the AAs to make H look like a better option.
    Everything that preceeded that phase was aimed to coerce Germany into the sack.
    Further Britain had spent a century preparing the ground for both zionism and nazism.
    The reason why this isnt common knowledge is that Britain infiltrated the german cultural elite probably predicting that this would give them protection from exposure. So far it has worked. The significant connection between Britain and Rickard Wagner and Hitler is therefore downplayed.

  425. Wally says:
    @muselman3295

    Indeed, there are those who visited another theme park, Disneyland.
    And they have ‘testified’ that they actually saw Bugs Bunny, not a Disney character, at Disneyland. LOL

    [MORE]

    Study: It’s Easy to Plant False Memories

    The Associated Press, Sun 16 Feb 2003
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/16/false.memory.ap/index.html

    DENVER (AP) — Remember that wonderful day when Bugs Bunny hugged you at Disneyland? A study presented Sunday shows just how easy it can be to induce false memories in the minds of some people.

    More than a third of subjects in the study recalled that theme-park moment — impossible because Bugs is not a Disney character — after a researcher planted the false memory.

    Other research, of people who believed they were abducted by space aliens, shows that even false memories can be as intensely felt as those of real-life victims of war and other violence.

    The research demonstrates that police interrogators and people investigating sexual-abuse allegations must be careful not to plant suggestions into their subjects, said University of California-Irvine psychologist Elizabeth Loftus. She presented preliminary results of recent false memory experiments Sunday at the national meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

    Loftus said some people may be so suggestible that they could be convinced they were responsible for crimes they didn’t commit. In interviews, “much of what goes on — unwittingly — is contamination,” she said.

    The news media’s power of suggestion also can leave a false impression, Loftus said.

    “During the Washington sniper attacks, everyone reported seeing a white van,” she said. “Where did it come from? The whole country was seeing white vans.”

    A key, researchers said, is to add elements of touch, taste, sound and smell to the story.

    In the Bugs Bunny study, Loftus talked with subjects about their childhoods and asked not only whether they saw someone dressed up as the character, but also whether they hugged his furry body and stroked his velvety ears. In subsequent interviews, 36 percent of the subjects recalled the cartoon rabbit.

    In another study, Loftus suggested frog-kissing incidents that 15 percent of the group later recalled.

    “It is sensory details that people use to distinguish their memories,” said Loftus, who has conducted false memories experiments on 20,000 subjects over 25 years. “If you imbue the story with them, you’ll disrupt this memory process. It’s almost a recipe to get people to remember things that aren’t true.”

    In other research presented Sunday, Harvard University psychologist Richard McNally tested 10 people who said they had been abducted, physically examined and sexually molested by space aliens.

    Researchers tape-recorded the subjects talking about their memories. When the recordings were played back later, the purported abductees perspired and their heart rates jumped.

    McNally said three of the 10 subjects showed physical reactions “at least as great” as people suffering post traumatic stress disorder from war, crime, rape and other violent incidents.

    “This underscores the power of emotional belief,” McNally said.

    For more on easily manufactured ‘memories’ and fantasies:

    ‘Key to False Memories Uncovered’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4629

    ‘False memories as ‘facts’ / some examples’
    : http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=14

    ‘False memories and the “misinformation effect”: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1995

    http://www.codoh.com

  426. cassandra says:
    @Anon

    Typically annamaria is all over the place. I don’t know whether Russian friends set her on her blogging path but I doubt they have increased her pay after initial probation.

    Russians will pay money for blogging? Where do I apply? Please provide contact information ASAP.

  427. Cyrano says:

    The Jews have been on the road for almost 2000 years now. Only in the last 70 years they managed to reconquer a place that they could call home. In all the other places that they settled in over the millenniums – they just tried to fit in.

    And that turned out to be their biggest problem – they usually fit in better than the local population. It creates resentment when you are more successful than the locals.

    When Socialism was all the rage in USSR, Jews were proportionately over-represented as party members, and now when globalization and multiculturalism are in fashion, again the Jews are some of the most zealous supporters of it – when most of the locals are not too hot about it.

    Same thing with anti-Russian hysteria in the west – the Jews are for it, just to show how well adapted they are to the local culture, even if Russia has done more to save their butts than any other country in the world.

    Even in their “newly” conquered homeland Israel – they try to fit in better than the locals that they found there. The only difference is that over there they can even pass laws to make sure that they are better fit than the “minorities” that they found there. It’s one of the perks of having your own country.

    The other thing that I noticed is that it appears that the Jews are serious butt kissers. That’s why there were (some) Nazi Jews, or why so many of them turned commies, or now globalists and multiculturalists – all movements that were popular for a time being (with the elites), but were eventually rejected or defeated by the majority of the people.

    I guess the main problem of the Jews is that they try to fit in with the elites, for the common people they couldn’t care less, but then again even if there were no Jews among the elites – the home grown elites would suck anyway and would work against the interests of the common men.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  428. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    “Estimates of mass deaths are always based on statistical analysis and extrapolations.”
    — Correct. But the Holocaustians have been effective in criminalizing the honest research that includes the estimates.

  429. Hello Mr. Ron Unz,
    …Fyi, yesterday I shared your article with a knowledgeable friend who claims to have studied Holocaust & Holocaust revisionist history since 1973.
    … No biggie, but given I merely read your article by 75 percent, I happened to mention to him the fact that Ron Unz discussed a topic with which he was familiar — Jews who willingly fought for Hitler’s Germany.
    … At any rate, my friend (who prefers anonymity) indicated a concern that your extraordinary article shall be taken down from the internet, so he plans to make a hard-copy of “Holocaust Denial.”
    … Lastly, I consider this article the greatest ever written since the late-1970’s & when I became familiar with “The Spotlight” magazine and read Captain James Ennes’s seminal book on the Israeli aerial attack on the unarmed USS Liberty & murder of American sailors. oK, oK, shall stop talking about self now!
    … You are a brave man, and like Paul the Apostle asserted, “You are neither Greek nor Jew,” all are (allegedly) One in fatherly divinity.
    … Time for my words now to grow “smaller” and let Ron Unz’s thought grow “bigger.”
    … Am honored to be remotely associated with you, an extraordinary BRAVE man, via The vital Unz Review comment-organ.
    … Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

  430. Anonymous[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    Every authentic document issued under the authority of the Reich indicates that the policy was conceived of and maintained as the humane removal of the Jews from the German sphere of influence-not their mass murder.

    But what about the Wannsee conference minutes?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  431. @Anonymous

    I was at Half Price Books a few years back and picked up a German-English dictionary, published in 1912, IIRC. It had belonged to a student at Georgia Tech. The entry for “ausrotten” included “exterminate” as a possible meaning. Not the only meaning, but one of them.

    That’s 1912.

  432. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    Yup. peterAUS starts out alright but then gets more and more evasive as the discussion moves towards his no go areas. Hypocrite is the word.

  433. Anonymous[271] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    In the bloodlands between Germany and Moscow, great horrors took place.

    Such as what, specifically? What’s the evidence?

    • Replies: @Anon
  434. cassandra says:
    @Wally

    Using your logic, why would German starve to death their valuable slave labor?

    Because of food shortages. While feeding slave labor might have been desirable, it was a higher priority to maintain the population’s rations, and most importantly, to have able-bodied soldiers on the eastern front.

    Administrative documents about how food was being allocated, and how those responsible came to their decisions, would be informative.

    • Replies: @Wally
  435. @Anonymous

    yes..I have finally got to this and it is a very enlightening contribution..useful indeed.
    I knew there had to be something here which kept me coming back. UNZ is for real..a real scholar.

  436. @Hippopotamusdrome

    “Nazis may have killed up to 20m…”

    You understand, of course, that “up to” includes zero.

  437. Alden says:
    @Mike P

    There were 2 English copies of that book in the UCLA library when I read it about 10 years ago. Now gone. I wonder if the Hilberg book is still there.

    Good luck

  438. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    The quoted markings are ON the document.

    You dodged the confirming Luther Memo, of course.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  439. Wally says:
    @cassandra

    You lie again with another strawman, no one said like the “population’s rations”.

    The camps staff ate the same as the labor. You cannot prove otherwise.
    You are the one making the ‘starvation’ claim. back it up, if you can.

    you dodged:

    “Slave labor”? You mean the same “slave labor” that the Allies used?

    And these photos, plenty more where these came from. Oops!

    [MORE]

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @cassandra
  440. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    What about Wannsee? Do tell.

    I already covered it, but for the slow, please read these:

    The Wannsee Conference Protocol, Anatomy of a Fabrication, By Johannes Peter Ney : https://codoh.com/library/document/934/?lang=en

    and: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=wannsee
    and:
    Wannsee Conference minutes debunked: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1647
    and:
    A fresh look at the Wannsee Conference minutes.: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11741

    http://www.codoh.com

  441. Alden says:
    @reiner Tor

    The Jewish leader ship blames Poland for the fact that Auschwitz is located in Poland. The claim is that the Germans built the worst of the worst camps there because they knew the Poles would cooperate.

    The camps, complex of camps were built at Auschwitz because the town was a major railroad intersection where trains met, transferred freight and passengers and then headed east west north and south all over Europe.

    Workers and materials were brought in from all over and the finished products were loaded on trains and sent all over Europe.

    It was similar to the Chicago railroad yards, a continental transfer point

    • Replies: @j2
  442. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    LOL. Come on, stop being silly.

    Look, even if Nazi Germany and USSR hadn’t been animated by nutball ideologies, any territory that serves as battleground between massive armies is bound to suffer horribly.

    Take Poland as an example in both WWI and WWII. Very bad place to be.
    Or consider all the Vietnamese civilians caught between US forces and Viet Cong.

    WWII was on a larger scale, and the Germans were animated by a truly horrific radical racist ideology. The commies had a radical purist streak too.

    There were two kinds of Jewish victims. Innocent ones. Obviously when women and children are rounded and summarily executed, that has to be seen as killing of innocents.
    The other kind of Jewish victims were what you call the Losing Side. These Jews were radical ideologues and had blood on their hands. And wherever they gained control, they carried out mass executions and repressions.
    Same goes for Germany as it began to lose the war. All those women who were raped and all those kids who were killed by mass bombings have to be counted as innocent. But those Germans serving in the Nazi system were bound to get killed or brutalized when their time was up.

    At any rate, even if Hitler was anti-communist, one cannot make the argument that he was trying to save Christian Slavs from Soviet-Jewish tyranny. Hitler wasn’t trying to liberated most Slavs from the Soviets. A victorious Germany might have gone easy on Lithuanians, Estonians, and blonde-and-blue-eyed Slavs. But the fate of most Slavs under Hitler would have been even worse than under Stalin and Jews. Even Stalin’s greatest crime, forced collectivization, wasn’t an attempt to wipe out Slavic peoples. It was to gain control and sell grain to buy industrial material. The terror was political, not racial. In contrast, Hitler’s horrors would have been racial. This is why it is wrong to discuss only Jews when it comes to Nazi genocide. Slavs were on the menu too.

  443. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “Also, most Jewish victims were killed by guns, not gas.”

    Seriously?
    That is complete & bizarre nonsense, you have no proof of the alleged immense mass shootings or you would post it.
    I repeat:

    Per their alleged ‘Holocaust by bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  444. Alden says:
    @j2

    In terms of being a productive worker, 14 is not a child. With appropriate training, a 14 year old can do the same work an adult can do.

    Guess you never heard of farming or the industrial revolution.

    Go fight with someone else.

  445. Bravo for this piece… it will be hard to top, and will invite calumny for which I hope you’re at least partly prepared.

    It represents another superb collation of material that would get the writer in genuine trouble if he ever went to any of the countries where governments have legislated that some questions may not be asked (and where “certain things are true though they didn’t happen“, as Elie Wiesel said to the rabbi).

    Two of my favourite quotations are from Milton’s Areopagitica; the first makes clear why laws that restrict speech are unnecessary – viz., Truth will out

    “Though all the winds of doctrine were let loose to play upon the earth, so Truth be in the field, we do injuriously by licensing and prohibiting, to misdoubt her strength. Let her and Falsehood grapple; who ever knew Truth put to the worse, in a free and open encounter?”

    The second is its corollary –

    “Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.”

    Noam Chomsky encapsulated both sentiments handily, although I would have preferred it to have been expressed in terms of ideas rather than ‘people (e.g., adding the square bracketed term below)…

    “If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people [whose ideas] we despise, we don’t believe in it at all”

  446. Alden says:
    @utu

    Black Death was spread by people and things that travelled. Whether it was a shipment of fabric from town to village, a monk on a trip back to his monastery or a Jew or anyone else traveling, the fleas spread.

    • Replies: @j2
  447. @Colin Wright

    No, I choose to dispute that it happened. I just did.

    No, you’re choosing to be evasive. You don’t really dispute that WWII happened.

    Now, demonstrate the contrary.

    No need, Colin, since you’ve already demonstrated that you don’t really “dispute that it happened”:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2485220

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486157

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/how-many-elite-early-european-immigrants-to-us-were-there/#comment-2458169

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-jews-and-nazis/#comment-2454588

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-jews-and-nazis/#comment-2450209

    …evidence…

    …establishing the reality of the Holocaust…

    Need I remind you that in order for us to even begin “establishing the reality of the Holocaust”, with any kind of “evidence”, we first need to define our terms?

    What was “the Holocaust”?

    How did “the Holocaust” occur?

    What is “Holocaust denial”?

    Ball’s in your court, Colin.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  448. @Anon

    We know they harbored a genocidal ideology. They could be pragmatic and make momentary peace with enemies. They could be easy on Jews at times. Hitler made peace with Stalin for awhile. But the deep ideology of the Nazis was imperialist, genocidal, and supremacist.

    We know nothing of a genocidal ideology. It’s conjecture
    Momentary peace? What the hell is that? All peace is temporary.
    Easy on Jews at times? Jews were safe and sound in camps, being fed, playing soccer, being paid for their work, and playing in orchestras, unlike German civilians, in any city or town of any size, being saturation bombed in their homes.
    Do you understand that the Communist agitation led to the armistice of Nov 11, 1918? Do you understand that not one shot had been fired on German territory, and that they had offered peace on a “let’s call it off basis” for more than two years? Do you understand that the Communists overthrew governments and seized power in two German states? Do you understand that Germans knew Hungary was also overthrown by Communists led by Jews? Do you understand that the promises of the armistice were perverted at Versailles where the international bankers decided what the Treaty would be with impossible to pay reparations? Do you understand that the Communists, under control of Moscow, were the consistently the 2nd or 3rd largest party in the Reichstag during the 1920s? Do you understand that the massive inflation created by the bankers in the 1920s led to Jews buying up large swaths of german industries? Do you understand that Germans understood that Jews were at the forefront of the Communist party? Do you understand millions of German speaking people from Eastern Europe traveled out of Ukraine, Poland, and other countries reporting on the horrors committed by the Communists in the USSR?

    Why the hell wouldn’t there be a political party formed to oppose communism and regain territory stolen from Germany; oppose international bankers; and thwart a Communist takeover with all of that?

    Do you understand that the Allies are still at war with Germany, as no peace treaty has been signed? Do you understand that the German Government is an occupation government, and that the Allies had total control over the education and information in Germany for 50 years?

    Do you ever ask yourself why all the records have been sealed, and why only Jews have access to them for research?
    I’m not saying that the NSDAP was ideal, but were they were clear on their goals: territory lost at Versailles needed to be addressed; the end of international banker interference; an economic system that met the needs of the people, not people meeting the needs of an economic system; and a return of Germany to a culturally healthy place for Germans. Jews were targeted for removal if they identified as Jews rather than Germans who practiced Judaism.

    You like most posters here have no context in which events took place.

  449. @Svigor

    The eXile wasn’t all bad. It had one column that was a genuine ‘must read’ – War Nerd, written by John Dolan under a nom de plume (“Gary Brecher”).

    Interesting that an interview of ‘Brecher’ by Steve Sailer was one of the starting points for the revelation that ‘Brecher’ was, in fact, Dolan.

  450. cassandra says:

    Meanwhile, the Jewish community also seems to contain far more than its fair share of the emotionally disturbed and the mentally ill, and perhaps as a consequence has served as a launching-pad for many of the world’s religious cults and fanatic ideological movements.

    Such a broad statement without support comes as a surprise; it’s very untypical of Ron. Can anyone (preferably Ron) provide some near-at-hand references?

  451. Robjil says:
    @Anon

    Gilad Atzmon says the same. He got this idea from Leo Strauss, a Jewish German/ American philosopher. Strauss said that the west is divided between the themes of two cities : Athens, the city of philosophy, art, science, reason and logos and Jerusalem, the city of God or revelation and God’s laws. Galileo was an Athenian. He said that the earth revolves around the sun. We had a Galilean view of the world for a few centuries. Since 1913, a Jerusalemite vision of the world took over the west and much of the east through communism. The West has gone full blown Jerusalemite since the US/Israel 911 false flag. All of ZUS Congress must sign a pledge to Israel. What is best for Israel must always be on the minds of our Zcongress or one is “voted” out by massive, endless tidal waves of propaganda tricks of our Zpress. The seven nations to destroy for the 911 false flag were all nations that Israel wanted to knock off. Israel got six of them messed by the west. Israel even tried their hand at one of them in 2006 in Lebanon. Israel lost that one but it messed up Lebanon anyway. The seven nations to destroy idea comes from Deut. 7.1-2. of the Old testament. It is a Jerusalamite revelation theme and not based on any Athenian rational, logical or ethical theme. In the Jerusalemite world of today, the earth revolves around Israel and the Big 6 and nothing more than that. The sun is nothing compared to Israel and the Big 6.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
  452. @CanSpeccy

    Your heart-felt concern brings a tear to the eye.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    , @L.K
  453. @peterAUS

    The Deist / Denier dialectic does not tell the whole story: only the former seeks to censor and criminalize debate.

    Put another way, the former is evil, per se; the latter, not so much.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  454. @Colin Wright

    I can prove that WW2 occurred. My family has pictures, documents, etc. My grand father served in the RCAF. His squadron bombed Dresden. I met many of his war buddies at his funeral. I am just one person.

    The holoco$t has been studied by lipstadt type s, i.e Fan atics. They have not made a case but want to criminalize research and dissent. This is colloquially know as horseshit.

    The apex of JP has passed, its all downhill from here.

  455. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Those days are going to end and those who would visit harm on such innocents will rue the day they were born. So let it be written, so let it be done.

  456. Art says:
    @Otterboy

    Ron Unz is an incredibly brave human being. He’s obviously a very intelligent person and knew full well before he wrote this what the likely repercussions would be to him personally

    He has my utmost RESPECT

    Hear hear!

    While we anonymously attack each other, on minor points – Ron Unz has the tiger by the tail. Dark forces are gathering to take Mr. Unz and the Unz Review down.

    Only if other public voices take up the call for truth on Jewish activities, can anything good happen.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. I wonder if the small light weight minds that always back the Jews, realize that the outcome will be killing of their own free speech?

  457. @Robjil

    Ron Paul did not sign any pledge to the gangster kike state.

    Although I am not sure, I wouldn’t be surprised if the late Ohio congressman, Jim Trafficant, didn’t as well.

  458. @annamaria

    ‘If you are for evidence then what is your problem with studying the Holocaustians’ claims? Why have the researchers been put to prisons for investigating the numbers?…’

    There was once an instance of three Wongs preceding a Wright — but that’s a tale for another day.

    Two wrongs still don’t make a right. It is indeed wrong that Holocaust deniers are persecuted. Albigensians were persecuted. That doesn’t demonstrate that their theories were correct.

  459. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Bunch of reckless speculation and bull.

    But the fate of most Slavs under Hitler would have been even worse than under Stalin and Jews. Even Stalin’s greatest crime, forced collectivization, wasn’t an attempt to wipe out Slavic peoples.

    Wrong. Hitler didn’t intend to exterminate the Slavic peoples.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anon
  460. @Wally

    And how do we know the markings weren’t made by Irving?

    The Luther Memo refers only to Jews living in countries allied with Germany and not under German occupation.

    • Troll: L.K
  461. Anonymous [AKA "everynameistaken"] says:

    That is pretty well known. What seems to be less well known is that the mainstream holocaust narrative says there were only 6 “extermination camps” where jews were killed, and they were all in Poland. Eisenhower did not go anywhere near Poland, those camps were all “liberated” by the USSR.
    Could you provide a more detailed explanation of how Eisenhower having pictures taken at Ohrdruf is proof of jews being exterminated in Auschwitz?

  462. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Do you ever ask yourself why all the records have been sealed, and why only Jews have access to them for research?

    Which records are you referring to?

  463. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    ‘…The apex of JP has passed, its all downhill from here.”

    If by ‘JP,’ you mean ‘Jewish Power,’ I wish. I doubt if I would even be conscious of ‘Jewish Power’ — or much care — if it weren’t for Israel. But Israel is there, and it’s the great problem with Jewish Power. Israel continues to exist.

    So does Jewish Power. But here’s the point.

    Holocaust denial is a cartoon show that does not call ‘Jewish power’ into question, but buttresses it.

    Not only is it a fallacy, it’s a pernicious fallacy. Please, take up denying the moon landings happened. Or insist Sandy Hook was a hoax. You’ll do much less harm.

  464. peterAUS says:
    @Liberty Mike

    The Deist / Denier dialectic does not tell the whole story: only the former seeks to censor and criminalize debate.

    Don’t quite think so.
    That assumes, implicitly, that “Denier” side is less controlling, power-hungry and overall just nasty. Now….looking at posters here do you really believe that? That should majority of posters here, somehow, get the levers of power they’d be “nice guys”?
    I don’t.

    Put another way, the former is evil, per se; the latter, not so much.

    I’d rephrase in:
    The former is openly controlling, power hungry etc…..the later simply hasn’t got the chance. Oh, wait…actually they did, or at least a decent number of posters relate to them nicely.
    The guys we are, sort of, discussing here. Those wielding the “stick”. Actually a machinegun. Or distribution of food. Manning the camps. Stuff like that.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    , @Wally
  465. @Anonymous

    ‘…Wrong. Hitler didn’t intend to exterminate the Slavic peoples.’

    Indeed. Nazism was a real movement, consisting of real people — not some goddamned cartoon show of villains seeking to make it always winter and never Christmas.

    We’re better off that it didn’t prevail — but if only we would look at what it actually was rather than trying to turn it all into a satisfying fairy tale, we might be able to learn from the episode.

    The Nazi settlement plans — fantasies — for the East would have collapsed and indeed were collapsing for a simple reason.

    Not very many Germans wanted to move there. Of course Nazi victory wouldn’t have been good for the Slavs — but there wouldn’t have been some gigantic Holocaust x 100. That just wouldn’t have happened.

  466. @Colin Wright

    No doubt the Germans were being beastly to the Jews

    Um, no.

    Study what the Commies were doing to the Germans and who the Commies were. You may not be too surprised to find that history has been turned on its head, as usual. It’s quite amusing to find that the truth is the opposite of what we’ve long been taught.

  467. cassandra says:

    The skillfully-written article reads like an intellectual whodunit, going back and forth with surprising twists. Since I came across David Irving some years back, I’d been appalled at the persecution and propaganda thrown at Holocaust dissenters, and the despicable way in which shaming and censorship was applied to forming public opinion. The article provides probably the best overview of any I’ve seen.

    Shaming & censorship have now been extended wholesale, and now promote some very odd views indeed. Patently false PC beliefs are being forced upon intellectuals; individual words are being forbidden, or even enjoined; viewpoints are being censored by the Orwellian algorithms of our electronic media. People, even those holding majority albeit maverick opinions, are losing their livelihoods and being cowed into silence.

    Thanks very much for this excellent survey, and for all the warnings it carries.

  468. @peterAUS

    Regarding your response to my assertions, your position is premised upon speculation whereas mine is premised upon the present reality.

    Nevertheless, let us indulge your speculation. Which posters would, in your view, censor and criminalize shoah speech if they had the power to do so? Have such posters unambiguously stated that they would do so?

    Does Wally advocate for the extermination of the Hebrews? To be honest, I typically scroll past his Holocaust related commentary. Not today. I took the time to read several of his posts. Did you find that he articulates support for any type of final solution for the chosen people? Did you read that he urges gulags for the Jews?

    More to the direct point: does Wally agitate for the censoring of the mendacious Ellie Wiesel types or incarcerating proponents of the Deist narrative?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  469. phil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Ardent Revisionist Carlo Mattogno concurs that innumerable Jews were simply worked to death, many of them in German-occupied parts of the western USSR; they may have transited through Treblinka, Sobibor, or Belzac (and not been killed in any of those places), but they may not have lived very long doing forced-labor.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  470. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Yawn.

    You’re desperate. You’re trolling. You lost again.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  471. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    ‘I can prove that WW2 occurred. My family has pictures, documents, etc. My grand father served in the RCAF. His squadron bombed Dresden. I met many of his war buddies at his funeral. I am just one person…’

    This is curious akin to that SS accountant who came forward a decade or so back and said, ‘look: I was at Auschwitz. It happened. I counted the shoes and coats…’

    Fat lot of good it did. Ironically, he’s now been arrested and put on trial as a war criminal. No good deed goes unpunished.

    However, no fear. No one’s going to argue with you about World War Two. Too big, and no motive to.

    The point really is that we can absolutely prove literally nothing. Ultimately, I choose to believe the evidence that Tasmania exists — even if I’ve never been there, and never will.

    Ditto for the Holocaust. There are things I’m prepared to doubt. The Holocaust isn’t one of them. Like Tasmania, too much damned evidence.

  472. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    But Israel is there, and it’s the great problem with Jewish Power. Israel continues to exist.

    How is Israel a problem with “Jewish Power”?

  473. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “A victorious Germany might have gone easy on Lithuanians, Estonians, and blonde-and-blue-eyed Slavs. But the fate of most Slavs under Hitler would have been even worse than under Stalin and Jews. Even Stalin’s greatest crime, forced collectivization, wasn’t an attempt to wipe out Slavic peoples. It was to gain control and sell grain to buy industrial material. The terror was political, not racial. In contrast, Hitler’s horrors would have been racial. This is why it is wrong to discuss only Jews when it comes to Nazi genocide. Slavs were on the menu too.”

    LOL. No proof whatsoever, just like the dumb ‘gas chambers’ LOL

    Everyone want’s to be a victim. It’s the way the whining leftist West these days. LOL

    Maybe you should contact German officials and demand a monthly paycheck because you believe that you would have been a victim. LOL

    Truly hilarious.

    http://www.codoh.com

  474. In certain suburban communities of Boston, large numbers of Armenian immigrants settled.

    One year while I was in grad school, I lived in Arlington, a western suburb of Boston. Right around the corner from my apartment, there was an independent grocery store owned and operated by three Armenian brothers.

    One of the brothers was short tempered – about everything, including topics related to the Red Sox. The other two brothers were mild mannered.

    There was a regular customer who liked to incite the hot tempered brother. One two occasions I witnessed his special mode of incitement: he would raise his voice and say, “Eddie, the Turks are coming, the Turks are coming, they’re already in Somerville (it borders Arlington).”

    Eddie, the hot tempered brother, would run out from behind the deli counter and chase the customer out of the store and the other brothers would have to restrain him.

    I laughed my ass off – it was FUNNY. Sure, a large part of it was how easily the customer pressed Eddie’s buttons. But another part of it, in my view, is a salutary aspect of the human condition: being able to laugh at the taboo.

    Sure, Peter Aus, I think a guy like Eddie the Armenian would seek to censor and criminalize any speech critical of, or casting doubt upon, the Armenian genocide narrative.

    My position, therefore, would be speculative, but it would be informed speculation. Can you say the same about Wally and the other posters who you have in mind?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
  475. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    said:
    “That assumes, implicitly, that “Denier” side is less controlling, power-hungry and overall just nasty. Now….looking at posters here do you really believe that?”

    The so called “denier” side believes in free speech, you and “Holocaust Indu$try” does not.
    Next.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    – Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    http://www.codoh.com

  476. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    That’s it? That’s all you got? LOL.

    You’re really losing it now. IOW, you are desperate. Strawmen & all. LOL

    We’re still waiting for you to show us the claimed immense human remains in allegedly known locations.

    Hey dumsky, nothing about the moon lading or Sandy Hooks defies laws of science, logic & rational thinking.

    Speaking of “cartoons”:
    https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1968,w_3500,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1492120424/articles/2016/01/26/iran-s-holocaust-cartoon-competition/160125-medoff-holocaust-tease_pcqjwr

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    http://www.codoh.com

  477. @Wally

    What? I’m just applying your own standards. What’s the problem?

  478. @Wally

    “Indeed, you quoted it because you believe in it. Simple stuff really.”

    No, I quoted it repeatedly because that passage (among others) highlights the hypocrisy of the article. I said nothing about whether I actually believe the Holocaust or any of the other atrocities and genocides prescribed to the Third Reich. In all of my posts, how I describe Nazi atrocities has been primarily in the context of how they’re proclaimed and believed by historians.

    I know you didn’t actually say the Nazis didn’t do anything wrong, but it’s not often I readily see someone said not only the Holocaust didn’t happen, but there was no Nazi genocide/large-scale atrocities against the Poles or the Roma or presumably any other ethnic group, and yet you at the end of the day don’t think the Nazis were any worse than the Allies. Maybe you do, but it doesn’t seem believable (and I myself am ultimately agnostic). For that, my post was sarcasm- which was lost on you, along with you assuming I believe the Holocaust or any other atrocity just because I quoted it, because you’re a rambling fanatic. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, but so is being a mentally unstable weirdo (and you of course end your post off with MORE link spam to CODOH DOT COM.)

    • Replies: @Wally
  479. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “This is curious akin to that SS accountant who came forward a decade or so back and said, ‘look: I was at Auschwitz. It happened. I counted the shoes and coats…’”

    And who was that? LOL

    Here’s one for you:

    According to acclaimed & so called “holocaust eyewitness” Henryk Tauber, corpses could be cremated in 5-7 minutes.
    If you question that in many countries you will be imprisoned.

    Here’s another real gem:

    Mother and I used to get up at four in the morning [at Belsen], to avoid the queues of people waiting to use the shower block about and hour later. We undressed and showered our bodies with ice-cold water. The only soap we had was a barrel of honey-coloured liquid soap, manufactured out of human flesh from the bodies of people shot by the SS on the transports. Many times we wondered: ‘Could this be my brother, my sister, another relation?

    – Gena Turgel nee Goldfinger, I Light a Candle, London: Grafton, 1987, p. 102.

    http://www.codoh.com

  480. peterAUS says:
    @Liberty Mike

    Regarding your response to my assertions, your position is premised upon speculation whereas mine is premised upon the present reality.

    Maybe.
    Or my position is based on observation, hard facts about human nature and “power corrupts”. Yours on wishful thinking.

    Nevertheless, let us indulge your speculation. Which posters would, in your view, censor and criminalize shoah speech if they had the power to do so?

    Can’t be bothered.

    Have such posters unambiguously stated that they would do so?

    Remind us again, please, when was the last time totalitarian and/or genocidal maniacs unambiguously stated their intentions before gaining power? Actually…hehe….Adolf was probably the most honest. Makes you think……

    Does Wally advocate for the extermination of the Hebrews? To be honest, I typically scroll past his Holocaust related commentary. Not today. I took the time to read several of his posts. Did you find that he articulates support for any type of final solution for the chosen people? Did you read that he urges gulags for the Jews?

    Paragraph above.

    More to the direct point: does Wally agitate for the censoring of the mendacious Ellie Wiesel types or incarcerating proponents of the Deist narrative?

    Don’t read his posts. From what I read before, let’s put it this way: if I were a Jew in position of power should I feel that my power is slipping I’d try to do something about “Wally types”. Prevention thing.

    Now…what do you think about idea that there are databases somewhere ready to be “implemented” in case of, say, “emergency”? Preventative detention is current euphemism I think.

    And…hehe…sites like this are, how to put it, beneficial for having the databases up to date.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    , @Wally
  481. @utu

    Claiming that they did not die is exactly what Holocaust industry wants. The extreme Holocaust denialism serves Zionist interests. Codoh and Wally’s of this world are agent of Zionist interests as unwitting useful idiots at best.

    I agree. Because so many Jews lost family members in WWII, they are likely to view Holocaust deniers as deluded or unteachable at best, insane or malicious at worst. In the minds of those whose families and friends vanished, no further evidence is required: Holocaust deniers automatically disqualify themselves from being taken seriously. You might as well try to present a new theory of the Ice Ages, and begin by explaining that the Earth is flat.

    I think it is far more productive to examine the way that Jewish victimhood has been used to excuse or cover up all kinds of bad behavior by Jews. For example, if you try to question the power of the Israel Lobby in the USA, charges of antisemitism will quickly follow, along with the suggestion that you are treading a slippery slope that leads to the gas chambers. The trump card in any such discussions is Holocaust denial by the other side – so much so that some pro-Jewish commentators will falsely assert its presence.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @j2
  482. Dr Unz,
    I have enjoyed your webzine for several years, since Steve Sailer migrated to it, and I cannot tell you how stunned I am by the research and thoroughness of your series of articles on “American Pravda”. I have an acquaintance who was educated in Romania and has since settled here as an opthamologist. He called the NYT Pravda for America 10 years ago, and I laughed. Seems he was correct….

  483. gsjackson says:

    Well, that didn’t take long. This article is being blocked by the Pima County (Tucson) public libraries as “adult content,” though they will let you through if it is necessary for you to view it as part of your “work” (Hasbara, pass through and bring the big guns). Adult content sounds right — as opposed to pabulum fed to ignorant children. Reassuring to know we’ve always got the First Amendment on the job in the U.S., isn’t it?

  484. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    Ardent Revisionist Carlo Mattogno concurs that innumerable Jews were simply worked to death, many of them in German-occupied parts of the western USSR

    How productive is a worker who is on his deathbed? And wouldn’t supervisors want to retain good workers and not have to retrain new ones?

  485. @Colin Wright

    Personally, I think the Holocaust occurred substantially as described

    When you say ‘as described‘, what version are you talking about?

    Here are some things that were very specifically included in ‘as described‘ at various stages …

    • an electric conveyor belt that vaporised 1000 Jews at a time;
    • 1.5 million killed by lethal injection to the heart;
    • ‘steaming to death’ of ~10,000 Jews at Treblinka in 1942;
    • asphyxiation from carbon monoxide (from diesel engines);
    • babies being thrown alive into burn pits;
    • ethnically colour-coded smoke from crematory chimneys;
    • soap from human fat;
    • lampshades from human skin;
    • various riveting, harrowing, first-person narratives that have been shown to be completely fraudulent

    At various points in history, those things were part of the canonical narrative; in much of Europe you face criminal sanction if you point out that they are all bullshit. (That’s the truly weird bit: you can be imprisoned for saying that known-false parts of the narrative, are false).

    One of the hallmarks of a false narrative, is a variant of Dunning-Kruger: the people who make things up do not possess any competence in the field, and so they make errors that are obvious to those with some training. The notion that crematoria chimneys give off columns of smoke, for example – or that the smoke changes colour depending on the ethnicity of the corpse.

    I have absolutely no doubt that very unpleasant things happened to people who were interned in camps in territory under the control of the Third Reich, particularly in the late stages of the war when logistics became highly problematic. In and of itself, that was a war crime, and there’s no need to gild the lily (or over-egg the pudding) by trying to pretend there was some Rube Goldberg-esque hyper-inefficient institutional arrangement, set up based on super-secret pinkie-swears, solely (or primarily) to exterminate members of one race-cult.

    As I understand it, the current catechism has a few moving parts:

    ① there was a specific policy of extermination due to racial hatred;
    ② that the policy focused on Jews;
    ③ that the policy was implemented through relocation of victims to camps;
    ④ that (some of) those camps were specifically extermination camps;
    ⑤ that the killing happened using cyanide gas in the form of Zyklon B pellets;
    “⑥ million”, and no less, even if the death toll at some camps is reduced by 3 million;
    ⑦ that the remains of most of the victims were cremated – either in purpose built infrastructure, or in ‘burn pits’.

    ⑦ is easiest to deal with: the throughput of a crematorium is a known engineering quantity; it is simply not possible to have cremated the number of victims being discussed, given the crematory capacity of the camps. As for ‘wood fired’ burn pits: anybody who has seen the mess that’s left after a wood-fired open-air cremation, knows that this is simply a non-starter. A full modern cremation leaves 3-5lb or bone (actually as much as 10lb, but let’s assume they were all small people with low bone density): where are the 9-30 million pounds (4,000-13,000 tonnes) of remains? (These are not ‘ashes’, by and large: they are lumps of dried-out bone; to get to the ‘sandy’ texture people associate with ‘cremains’, they are put through a cremulator ).

    ⑤ is problematic, given that such trace evidence as exists, supports the idea that Zyklon B was used for de-lousing (as it was by the Allies); there is insufficient cyanide residue in the ‘extermination chambers’, but ample residue in the ‘de-lousing’ facilities. There is also the problem that War Crimes investigators appointed doctors to perform hundreds of autopsies after liberation of the camps, and found no evidence of gassings of any type. The same is true for British and French investigations.

    ③ the logistics of moving people to camps for the sole (or main) purpose of putting them to death, is the sort of thing that would be thought up by someone with absolutely no understanding of the vast logistical problems associated with moving large numbers of people long distances (especially against their will). The diversion of resources from the main aim (i.e., fighting the war) would have been immense: manpower, materiel including arms and ammunition, fuel… if that was actually part of the ‘system’, the German military deserved to lose the war based solely on its incompetent planning.

    ④ why bother with death camps, particularly ones where a person might be in the camp for months before they were dispatched to the gas chambers? “To keep it from public view” is a poor attempted rationale (again, the sort of thing that would be proffered by someone who was making it up). Why not just drive them a few miles out of each town, line them up alongside a trench in a forest, and shoot them in the head – like the Soviets did? If anything, that would help explain the lack of forensic evidence of hundreds of thousands (or millions) of cremations.

    Even ① is problematic. Show me a policy of a government, anywhere in the world, that is not underpinned by enormous amounts of paperwork prior to the implementation of the policy. I don’t mean personal records of the individuals who later become victims: I mean the drafting of regulations; the circulation of memoranda to refine the institutional framework that will facilitate the putting-into-practice of the policy; the allocation of funds in budget papers… that sort of thing. As an example: the Enabling Act of 1933 was a scant 2 pages, but there are 200 or so pages of background bureaucratic shit that preceded it, and hundreds more pages that were promulgated as a direct result of its passage.

    As to ②: if Jewishness defined as a racial marker was such a big focus, why were there tens of thousands of Jews, half-Jews and quarter-Jews in the German military (including the officer corps at flag rank)?

    I have almost no doubt that awful things happened to people in labour camps, and that people were interned because of their Jewishness – especially since the rhetoric of global Jewish and Zionist leaders was virulently, genocidally anti-German, as far back as Jabotinsky in 1933/34.

    I also have no doubt that some of those awful things were perpetrated by sick minds – being a camp guard is the type of job that attracts sick fucks who relish the notion of having life-or-death control over others (some of the staff of Abu Ghraib are perfect examples of this).

    But this idea that the German leadership were prepared to compromise their ability to achieve strategic (and later, even tactical) objectives, simply to give vent to a genocidal urge… that’s a pretty extraordinary claim.

    I don’t have a dog in the specifics of the fight: I’m a voluntaryist, so the fact that a government did horrific things to people under its thrall validates my view of the world; the idea of Jewishness as a race is beyond stupid, so any policy based on Jewish-raceness is retarded, as is identifying as a Jew on racial grounds.

    So if the evidence aligned with the dominant narrative, I would change my mind. The fact that the evidence doesn’t align with the narrative; that the narrative has been significantly redacted over time; and that the hammer of the State now enforces an orthodoxy… well, that just serves to make me more skeptical.

    I am always highly skeptical of any ‘fact’ that requires legislation to force its acceptance. That Milton quotation again, with appropriate emphasis…

    “Though all the winds of doctrine were let loose to play upon the earth, so Truth be in the field, we do injuriously by licensing and prohibiting, to misdoubt her strength. Let her and Falsehood grapple; who ever knew Truth put to the worse, in a free and open encounter?”

  486. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Liberty Mike

    There was a regular customer who liked to incite the hot tempered brother. One two occasions I witnessed his special mode of incitement: he would raise his voice and say, “Eddie, the Turks are coming, the Turks are coming, they’re already in Somerville (it borders Arlington).”

    I laughed my ass off – it was FUNNY. Sure, a large part of it was how easily the customer pressed Eddie’s buttons. But another part of it, in my view, is a salutary aspect of the human condition: being able to laugh at the taboo.

    There should be something similar in the United States with respect to Jews and their prejudice that Gentile Americans may carry out a Holocaust against them in the United States.

  487. @red-ice

    Would you please clarify whose accounts you are backing as the truth and what the truth about torture was.

    • Replies: @red-ice
  488. @Andrew E. Mathis

    The Luther Memorandum makes clear that German policy towards the Jews of Europe was expulsion, not extermination. It is true that nasty things indeed happened on the Eastern Front but they were hardly things non-Jews must eternally atone for.

    https://codoh.com/library/document/154/?lang=en

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  489. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @James N. Kennett

    I agree. Because so many Jews lost family members in WWII, they are likely to view Holocaust deniers as deluded or unteachable at best, insane or malicious at worst.

    Did they lose family members, or lose touch with them, say, behind the Iron Curtain, or to Palestine?

  490. It’s probably no accident that the whole “Polish Death Camp” aspect of the narrative began in earnest in the second half of 1944, as the Soviets completely liberated their territory and began pushing beyond their prewar borders. Odd that there are no “Ukrainian Death Camps”.

  491. T. Weed says:

    I have Nicholas Kollerstrom’s BREAKING THE SPELL in front of me. On page 158 he begins listing the 6 million claim, starting in 1900 and ending on page 174, 1945, 166 claims of 6 million Jews killed.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Them Guys
  492. L.K says:
    @Colin Wright

    No, I choose to dispute that it happened. I just did.

    Now, demonstrate the contrary. Need I mention that no form of evidence you would reject if it came to establishing the reality of the Holocaust will be accepted when it comes to establishing World War Two occurred?

    Gee, what a truly pathetic little troll you are!

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Biff
  493. Zumbuddi says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Black people have tsken to braying that “White males are doing all tha mass shootings.”

    A wildly disproportionate % of those “white males” have been Jewish

    Colombine — Jewish shooter
    Parkland — Jewish shooter
    Jacksonville – Jewish shooter

    Jews are only 2% of population but at least 15% of mass murderers

    Jews are the most protected and coddled class in USA. Muslims and Blacks have legitimate grievances, Jews Do. Not.

    Will MSM take note?

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  494. Wally says:
    @T. Weed

    said:
    “I have Nicholas Kollerstrom’s BREAKING THE SPELL in front of me. On page 158 he begins listing the 6 million claim, starting in 1900 and ending on page 174, 1945, 166 claims of 6 million Jews killed.”

    Actually, the fake 6M goes back to at least 1823.

    Thanks.

    Jews have been pushing their ‘6,000,000’ lie since at least 1823, see here:

    6 MILLION?


    and:
    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  495. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Interesting post. What is a “voluntaryist”?

    especially since the rhetoric of global Jewish and Zionist leaders was virulently, genocidally anti-German, as far back as Jabotinsky in 1933/34

    Do you have some references for this claim?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  496. roo_ster says:

    That sound you hear is unz’s big brass ones clanking as unz moves between his kitchen and desk, sipping a cup of coffee and thinking on whose ox he will gore next week.

    American pravda series for the win. Or atleast a good think.

    • LOL: geokat62
  497. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    The Luther Memorandum makes clear that German policy towards the Jews of Europe was expulsion, not extermination.

    Was the policy expulsion from all of Europe, or just from certain countries? What to make of the Jews and partial Jews in the German military (and other German institutions?)?

  498. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    You are correct, he did not. I stand corrected. Thanks.

    However, all my other points stand, I recommend:

    Holocaust HOAX is based almost entirely on TORTURE!, by Friedrich Paul Berg: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8603

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  499. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    And you didn’t see that memo from one efficient German who had a connection with Moishe the quarter Jew marketing manager for the IG Farben subsidiary? You don’t know about the great deal he was offering for stocks he was worried about selling? You didn’t notice that remark about some of the dumb SS clots we have to employ at Birkenau being unsafe with anything as dangerous as nerve gas? So tell me what you think price and availability was for Zyklon B and Sarin.

  500. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    And what other numbers than 6,000,000 have been similarly mentioned over the same period? Is the frequency of 6,000.000 statistically significant?

  501. Wally says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, you may find this from Rothbard revealing:

    “Revisionism has the general function of bringing historical truth to a public that had been drugged by wartime lies and propaganda.

    Now revisionism teaches us that this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth. If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions, about the current World War III version of the same myth. Nothing would stop the current headlong flight to war faster, or more surely cause people to begin to reason about foreign affairs once again, after a long orgy of emotion and cliché.

    For the same myth is now based on the same old fallacies. And this is seen by the increasing use that the Cold Warriors have been making of the “Munich myth”: the continually repeated charge that it was the “appeasement” of the “aggressor” at Munich that “fed” his “aggression” (again, the Fu Manchu, or Wild Beast, comparison), and that caused the “aggressor,” drunk with his conquests, to launch World War II. This Munich myth has been used as one of the leading arguments against any sort of rational negotiations with the Communist nations, and the stigmatizing of even the most harmless search for agreement as “appeasement.” It is for this reason that A.J.P. Taylor’s magnificent Origins of the Second World War received probably its most distorted and frenetic review in the pages of National Review.

    The task of revisionism has been to penetrate beneath these superficialities and appearances to the stark realities underneath — realities which show, certainly in this century, the United States, Great Britain, and France — the three great “democracies” — to be worse than any other three countries in fomenting and waging aggressive war. Realization of this truth would be of incalculable importance on the current scene.

    For revisionism, in the final analysis, is based on truth and rationality. Truth and rationality are always the first victims in any war frenzy; and they are, therefore, once again an extremely rare commodity on today’s “market.” Revisionism brings to the artificial frenzy of daily events and day-to-day propaganda, the cool but in the last analysis glorious light of historical truth. Such truth is almost desperately needed in today’s world.”

    – Righteous Jew, Murray Rothbard, Review of The Origins of the Second World War, 1966
    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    http://www.codoh.com

  502. Art says:

    How about a little reality – how about real, today consequences from the six million, gas chambers, oven doors, soap, and lamp shade lies?

    This very day, Mad Dog Mattis is killing Yamani civilians because of those lies (and proud of it).

    Yamani is being bombed ONLY because the DOD is providing refueling and targeting info. Without that help, Saudi would end the war.

    Mattis and the MIC and the Jews – want war – they are riding the legacy of the six million lie.

    So are all the defenders of “six million lie” on this blog.

    Mattis’ Infuriating Answers on Yemen

    August 28, 2018 “Information Clearing House” – Defense Secretary Mattis held a rare press conference earlier today. He was asked more than once about U.S. support for the war on Yemen, but each time he repeated some version of the same discredited excuses he has used for months:

    William Gallo

    @GalloVOA
    · 11h
    Mattis is asked what the US is doing differently to help prevent Saudi coalition civilian deaths, because it “doesn’t seem to be working.”

    William Gallo

    @GalloVOA
    Mattis rejects the notion that US efforts haven’t helped prevent civilian deaths in Yemen. Says there aren’t news reports when Saudi coalition pilots exercise restraint.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50137.htm

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  503. @Anon

    Strangely you didn’t supply a link to the memo.

    Also, you use specialists when dealing with dangerous things, not common soldiers.

    The SS was able to employ specialists like Michael Wittmann after all.

    • Replies: @Anon
  504. @Anonymous

    A voluntaryist (or voluntarist… both are pretty unwieldy) is a person who thinks that all exchange should be voluntary – i.e., by mutual consent under known, fixed, terms. No coercion – free markets, and therefore no government.

    As to Jabotinsky’s genocidal anti-German rhetoric – absolutely I have a source… Jabotinsky himself – I have added bold emphasis to clarify that he was calling for a complete destruction of the German nation, to the last individual (which echoes statements by others of his ilk).

    “For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world.

    There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany’s ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies.

    But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany.

    Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews.”

    – Vladimir Jabotinsky in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in “Histoire de l’Armee Allemande” by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).

    To his credit, Jabotinsky seldom shied away from writing and saying what he genuinely believed: his “The Iron Wall” is a very good example of that.

  505. Paw says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    This author engaged in the Sudeten fascists German Chauvinism /mentioned/, and fully promote the ideology of the fascists point of view.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  506. Crimson2 says:

    I appreciate that Ron Unz is no longer even pretending not to be a Nazi.

  507. @Muh 6 Gorrillion!!!!!!!!

    ‘…Ball’s in your court, Colin.’

    Oh well. I’ll resign. Chalk yourself up another big win, Muh 6.

  508. @Anon

    Anon 425, I’ll be thinking about the original and fascinating arguments in your three entries. PeterAus was another island of sanity standing out from the vast torrents of derangement.

    For what it’s worth, I judge Bolshevism to be a greater net evil than Fascism, and not just because of its greater span across time and space. It remains a greater evil in lasting consequence because the innocent are taught the evils of tyrannical nationalism but not the evils of tyrannical internationalism.

    When neoStalinist apologists quibble about the number of famine, terror, or gulag victims, the tone is such that clearly it is not a matter of science for them; they intend to distract from and minimize the gross evils of the regime. Same for the instantly self-refuting denialists here. The Nazis were totalitarian, antiliberal, antidemocratic, (actually) racist, expansionist, warmongers, to name a few of their abhorrent traits. Whether it is 6 million or 3 million, gas chambers or rifles, Hitler and the Nazis hated the Jews (and gypsies, and slavs, and the disabled, etc.), and those they hated ended up disproportionately dead. Besides being evil, the fascist doctrine is mediocre and stupid. Finally, any American must consider that they were a deadly enemy of the United States.

    Contemporary events are difficult to accurately describe and interpret, and historical events even more so. A person can spend their time following football, collecting butterflies, leading a scout troop, doing yoga, or engaging in any one of 10,000 intellectual pursuits. For 90% of the American population, and not because they are duped, someone obsessed with minimizing the massacre of Jews, as is evidenced by many of the commenters here, likely is less interested in getting the facts right than in denying the monstrous evil of fascism which America helped defeat in a great war (yes, I know the Soviets did most of it, that no one is innocent, and so on). Social meaning is not what one intends, but how one’s utterance or action will be understood by others.

    • Replies: @wally
    , @Anon
  509. @Art

    ‘Mattis rejects the notion that US efforts haven’t helped prevent civilian deaths in Yemen. Says there aren’t news reports when Saudi coalition pilots exercise restraint.’

    Lol. So it should make headlines whenever the Saudis don’t hit a school bus.

  510. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    EugeneGur, I have dealt with you before… you are either a liar or a brainwashed fool, or a combo of both. You write:

    First, it wasn’t 16 million – the military, meaning combat, losses were roughly similar in the Russian and German Armies. Second, there were non-combat losses, which were way higher in the Russian army, since the Russians did not deliberately kill their German prisoners.

    This is totally FALSE. The Red Army combat losses were much HIGHER than those of the Wehrmacht. For example, from the start of Barbarossa until 31 December 1944, the Germans suffered 885.000 KIA on the Eastern Front or a little over 1 million KIA when WIA who died later are included.
    During the same period, the Soviet semi-official KIA figure(Krivosheev) is over 5.500.000. I am NOT including deaths by accidents, disease, POWs, i.e. non combat deaths.
    https://justpaste.it/Krivosheev
    Krivosheev’s figures are well known to be understated though.

    US Colonel D. Glantz, (often cited by Team Russia types, like the Stalinist Martyanov – but only when it suits him & his propaganda purposes), who has done work in the Russian archives, believes some 14 million Red Army personnel died, combat and non combat:

    “By 1942, after Leningrad and Moscow, Stalin and Marshal Georgi Zhukov think alike. They understand that even if you have to ruthlessly expend manpower, resistance will wear down a numerically weaker opponent. That tactic cost probably 14 million military dead—the price of defeating a more experienced, battle-worthy, savvy Wehrmacht.”

    You are also ridiculously lying about the POW issue, as all you Team Russia types do.

  511. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Thank you.

  512. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Crimson2

    What makes one a “Nazi”?

  513. I think a thread advocating Holocaust Denial is…unfortunate.

    People have the right to create it — just as Jyllens Post had the right to run its cartoons. I wouldn’t want that taken away from anyone. After all, free speech isn’t about letting people I agree with have their say. Hitler and Stalin would have been entirely amenable to ‘free speech’ of that kind.

    However, there is the detail that Holocaust did happen. People can create all the semantic and rhetorical castles they please — it happened.

    Since it did, having this thread serves little purpose other than giving people an excuse to dismiss everything on the site. After all, there are plenty of true statements one can make if one wants to exercise one’s right to free speech. People will try to silence you for those as well — no fear.

    Can’t you all go play at Codoh or whatever that place is you keep linking to? It’d help.

  514. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Beefcake replies to British Empire apologist/propagandist ‘CanSpeccy’

    Your heart-felt concern brings a tear to the eye.

    Bwahaha
    These shills like ‘canSpeccy’ truly have no shame!

    They are always good for a laugh though!

    Cheers

    • Replies: @Anon
  515. MarkinPNW says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The “Holocaust survivor” that I personally know as a family friend is a Russian woman who was deported from Southern Russia at the age of 15 by the Germans during WW2 to work as slave labor in a labor camp. She escaped from the camp, worked for a German farmer (basically as slave labor) who treated her much better than she was treated in the camp, and at the end of the war married one of the Dutch deportees that you described in order to escape Operation Keelhaul.

    She lived a pretty good life raising a family in the Netherlands with her husband, and later emigrated to the US with her husband and children. Even though she had a pretty good life, her marriage was rocky and eventually failed due I believe to the stresses and likely PTSD from war and forced slave labor.

    You can see her describe her amazing life in this video; https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rosa+gooch+youtube&view=detail&mid=E3D283250F11DD0B865FE3D283250F11DD0B865F&FORM=VIR

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  516. @Anon

    ‘…Even Stalin’s greatest crime, forced collectivization, wasn’t an attempt to wipe out Slavic peoples. It was to gain control and sell grain to buy industrial material. The terror was political, not racial. In contrast, Hitler’s horrors would have been racial…’

    I don’t particularly disagree with you, but I’ll point out that it is very secondary why you’re killing an innocent.

    If you kill me, it’s not terribly important to me whether you did it because I’m white, because I’m left-handed, or just because you want my iPhone. My central objection is that you killed me.

    So Stalin killed his millions (supposedly) because he wanted to industrialize the Soviet Union. I happen to think he just did it as part of a process of successively terrorizing each segment of Soviet society, but have it your way; he did it to industrialize the Soviet Union.

    Hitler killed his millions in pursuit of his agenda of racial purification.

    Note that in both cases, the central fact as far as the victims are concerned is that they’re dead.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
    , @jilles dykstra
  517. @Crimson2

    ‘I appreciate that Ron Unz is no longer even pretending not to be a Nazi.’

    In the context of his time and place, Ron is hardly being a Nazi. More the opposite, in fact.

    • Replies: @Anon
  518. wally says:
    @New Dealer

    My my, you preach like an indoctrinated sucker, that ‘are born every minute’.

    There is no proof that ‘the Nazis’ really hated the slavs, gypsies, & the disabled.
    But then no one has ever really liked thieving gypsies, but that’s another topic.
    You come off as one those unhinged leftist that try to call everything they don’t like ‘hate speech’. LOL

    There was no mass murder of slavs, gypsies, disabled, and of course, Jews.
    You have no proof to contrary, your silly sophomoric sermon aside.

    We can talk about euthanasia if you like. Euthanasia that is practiced worldwide. It was / is simply a merciful way of ending cruel suffering of the hopelessly ill. The claim that Germans ‘murdered’ those who were not so under their carefully monitored & family approved euthanasia program is baseless, without any proof whatsoever. And again, you don’t have it.

    There were no ‘massacres to minimize’, and still again, you have no proof to contrary.
    If you wish to debate any that you think occurred then please try and learn. I doubt you have any clue about the thoroughly discredited specific claims anyway. You’re just reciting what you are mandated to say.
    In fact, it is alleged that there are immense human remains in allegedly known places, but they are in fact not there. Oh those ‘magic Nazis’. Bye.

    We’re ready when you are.

    http://www.codoh.com

  519. @kikl

    “mainstream historians, save for a few exceptions, have not picked up the gauntlet”

    here’s one – subsequently a “mainstream historian” – who did precisely that, and came down on the Revisionist side:

    Joel Hayward, The Fate of the Jews in German Hands: An Historical Inquiry into the Development and Significance of Holocaust Revisionism (MA thesis at U. of Canterbury, New Zealand, 1993)

    the MA was duly awarded but, when word got out, the local Zionists and other High Priests of Holocaustianity mobilized against Hayward and attempted to destroy him. He eventually recanted, Galileo-style, and his academic career (in military history) eventually got back on track.

    further discussion @ http://codoh.com/library/document/1507/?lang=en

    and a link to the entire MA thesis @ http://fpp.co.uk/BoD/origins/Hayward/index.html

    Hayward’s unpublished book, and that’s what it is, is so substantial it ought to be in print. I’ve got it in my download file and will contact Ron Unz about making it part of this site.

  520. red-ice says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I am not backing anything, I am trying to correct mis-attributed quotes where the Dachau military trials and the civil Nuremberg trials get mixed up.

    Two judges were sent to investigate the military trials at Dachau:

    From Freda Utley’s book:
    https://www.unz.com/book/freda_utley__the-high-cost-of-vengeance/#p_8_18

    Colonel Everett’s action, nevertheless, forced the Army to take notice, and Secretary Royall appointed a commission to investigate his charges. This commission, sent to Germany in 1948, consisted of Judge Edward Leroy van Roden, of Delaware County, Pennsylvania, and Justice Gordon Simpson, of the Texas Supreme Court.

    There report were kept secret, but they talked about what they discovered later on. Clearly anything these gentlemen had to say about torture during trials in W.Germany therefore applies to the Dachau military trials they were investigating, not the civil Nuremberg trials.

    Therefore this quote from post#90 in this thread is incorrect and mis-leading. It seems to originate from here;
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11053

    – All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:” 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. Observer & American judge, van Roden

    – Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    Exchange Nuremberg for Dachau in the first line, then this is in line with Freda Utley’s story.

    That’s all.

  521. Wally says:
    @Crimson2

    What a dumb, yet typical, redneck Zionist response.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    You’re in over your head.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @crimson2
  522. @Colin Wright

    Look, if the holoco$t had occurred according to the official story it would have been more than adequately documented but it hasn’t. Instead, spurious and ridiculous stories have been told that are easily debunked.

    As to JP, as the u.s. declines in power Israel will decline in power. What we are seeing is the beginning of the end. The only thing not known is where will the Jews go. Will they be kicked out of America or leave quietly. Simply put, people are sick a d tired of their lies, spitefullness and parasitism.

    Jews like Unz, sha.ir and atz.mon are.canaries in the coAl mine. All it will take is one defining incident in America and the Jewish question will be front and centre. A major shift in public opinion is taking place. The status quo in the West is untenable.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  523. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    haplessly said:
    “Hitler killed his millions in pursuit of his agenda of racial purification.”

    LOL
    No he didn’t. You have no proof he did. Simple as that.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”

    – so called “holocaust historian”, Raul Hilberg,

    http://www.codoh.com

  524. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    And strangely you don’t seem to have had your imagination enlivened (and we are just talking of the imagined because real but very uncertain in detail) by the commenters who have pointed to the relatively poor quality of camp staff, including guards.

  525. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @L.K

    UR threads are so educational inasmuch as they show that almost everyone could hate everyone at the same time with barely a truce long enough to wipe the blood off the blade, or, more often, recharge the blunderbuss.

  526. @Henry's Cat

    the “Death Books” document deaths in Auschwitz only – killings in Block 10 by the SS Political Section (mostly Polish prisoners killed by shooting), and other registered fatalities due to beatings, starvation, disease, etc.

    they have nil to do with what went on in adjacent Birkenau, site of the gas chamber(?)/crematory complexes, which is where those Jews “unfit for work” (elderly, sick, pregnant, young mothers with children) from each incoming transport were sent in order to receive

    “special treatment”

    for transport-by-transport documentation cf. Danuta Czech, Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 (London, 1990).

    read it

    all of it

    then compare to Wally’s claptrap.

    the codoh autists, like the Zio-Holocaustianity crowd,

    thrive on ignorance.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  527. @Kratoklastes

    If there is any wiggle room it is in the use of the word “nation”. It could be said that an end result that, for example, broke up Bismarck’s creation and returned Germany to its late 17th century condition would be fine. Similarly one looks at the various expressed wishes for the “extermination” of the Jews over the previous half century and wonders what a gentle cross-examination by a respected interlocutor might have elicited.

  528. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    No, his kind of racial contempt and hatred meant that Slavs only had to be culled. Petty Genocide, not getting rid of the parasitic vermin once and for all….

  529. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    You should be more horrified by Hitler’s mad racial motivation than Stalin’s ruthless economic and personal power keeping motivations. Copying the latter as precedent, even assuming the conditions for it arise again, which might not happen, isn’t like accepting as valid the condemnation of someone to extermination merely because, unavoidably, they are born into one race.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Wally
  530. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cyrano

    In all the other places that they settled in over the millenniums – they just tried to fit in.

    No they didn’t. If they wanted to fit in, they could have dropped their culture/religion/language and become just like regular gentiles. Within 3 generations, no one would be any the wiser and their progeny’s place in the host nation would be forever guaranteed.

    Same thing with anti-Russian hysteria in the west – the Jews are for it, just to show how well adapted they are to the local culture

    No, it’s because Russia is bucking their power structure. It’s nothing to do with gentile interests.

    Even in their “newly” conquered homeland Israel – they try to fit in better than the locals that they found there

    No they don’t. They chased as many as possible out, and keep most of the rest under military occupation, or in history’s largest concentration camp. Gentiles can go to hell, it’s a purely Zionist affair.

    The other thing that I noticed is that it appears that the Jews are serious butt kissers.

    Right. Because they’re sociopaths. They’ve never built a successful independent nation and never developed the empathy and altruism needed to do so.

    I guess the main problem of the Jews is that they try to fit in with the elites

    This is merely one symptom of their sociopathic and parasitic modus vivendi. They work with elites because it serves their own self interest.

  531. Wally says:
    @MarkinPNW

    Beyond absurd, the senile woman is lying through her teeth.
    I wonder how much she was paid for her embarrassing performance. Yes, they do indeed get paid.
    Once again, another of the endless “survivors” yet the Germans supposedly ‘tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on’.
    ‘She escaped from being a slave and marched around in the middle of winter’?
    How did that work? Those damn Germans asleep at the wheel again. Some ‘slave camp’ that was. LOL
    I wonder if she lived like Misha Defonseca, who said she lived with a pack of wolves and killed with her bare hands a German soldier as he was trying to rape her – when she was all of seven . LOL

    Then there’s “survivor” Feinzilberg who claims to have survived nine concentration camps including Auschwitz-Birkenau. He even “survived” a two-week death march by eating snow. LOL
    BTW, there were no “death marches”. Jews were given choice to retreat with the Germans or await the communists. Most by far chose to leave with the Germans. Oops!

    Or how about Arnold Friedman who claimed to have survived the non-existent gas chambers by breathing through the keyhole. LOL

    I could go on & on with these nutters.
    BTW, there many more times “survivors, testimonies, & confessions” to witchcraft & sorcery than the fake ‘holocaust $urvivors.’
    recommended:
    what “eyewitnesses” & Believers actually say: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7254
    and:
    The Value of “Testimony and Confessions” Concerning the Holocaust: http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#ftn356
    and:
    short list of ‘holocaust’ absurdities / via Carlos Porter: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10587

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
  532. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    It’s certainly convenient how they change their story when the first one is shown to be false.

    Then again, David Irving loosely estimated 2.2 M killed in Eastern Europe. If someone of his statute makes a claim like that, there must be something there?

  533. Wally says:
    @Anon

    You mean the “memo” which you cannot show us? LOL

    Oh, and do tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    And do show us the alleged ca. 1,100,000 human remains that are alleged to be at Auschwitz.

    See summary of debunking points about Auschwitz:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=chose&t=11716&sf=msgonly

    Alleged “ash pond” for 1,100,000 Jew remains at Auschwitz, no actual remains can be shown.
    http://www.codoh.com

  534. @Ron Unz

    While one of your grateful readers can grab your eye, I take the opportunity to ask what you might do, or recommend that others do, to solve a problem which I find increasingly highlighted in your threads.

    I refer to electronic deplatforming. Typically one reads that YouTube has closed an account, Facebook taken down some comment or Google rendered something more or less unfindable.

    Ideally there would be an Unz internet product that was home to the deplatformed and censored. Call it Banned.Com and register as well for automatic links (I haven’t checked avaiability so it has to
    be “eg”) Deplatformed.com/org, First Amendment.com/org.

    Anyone who could prove that they met the requirements could have their video or whatever piece restored to well indexed availability. Obviously some editorial functions would be ruthlessly exercised, such as removing – possibly by AI initially – illiterate garbage. It should be very attractive to many classes of potential viewers, as would my earlier suggestion of a Full disclosure.com site. It could certainly raise some revenue if needed, including a small fee for most postings of banned material. But that’s incidental (it could be crowdfunded if necessary).

  535. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Have you *ever* found Ron sounding like a Socialist?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  536. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @New Dealer

    For what it’s worth, I judge Bolshevism to be a greater net evil than Fascism, and not just because of its greater span across time and space.

    I don’t see fascism as an evil. I see it as the most honest ideology. Also, Italian Fascism wasn’t all that murderous. Even Denis Mack Smith who wrote a scathing biography of Mussolini admits that when compared to most dictators of the 20th century, Mussolini comes off rather favorably.

    But National Socialism had a truly toxic element in its personality and racial ideology. Mussolini was full of himself but not pathological. Hitler(and guys like Himmler) were real psychopaths. Personality does matter. Castro could be a jerk, but he was not a mass-killer. He didn’t have the heart to be one. But Pol Pot was a real nut.

    Still, National Socialism wouldn’t have been so destructive if not for its demented racial ideology about untermensch and all that. It was that element that pushed German war-making into a campaign of extermination.

    But I don’t think the radical racism of National Socialism is intrinsic to fascism. Mussolini was actually less racially arrogant than Churchill or many American leaders. And neither Franco nor members of Falange were into elaborate theories about racial supremacy.

    In the most basic sense, the core of fascism can be found in ending of METROPOLIS.
    The movie features capitalist elites who only care about wealth, privilege, and power. They have no feeling for the masses who are seen as cattle. As for the masses, they are so angry and bitter than they willing are to bring about a revolution and bring down the entire order, even if it harms them as well.
    So, what is the solution? To arrive at an understanding between the ruling elites and the working masses through a nationalist vanguard and patriotic managerial class.

    National Socialism without the radical racial element would have been something like that, but the poison ideology animated Hitler to push further and further into the abyss.

    Anyway, I believe in fascism because everything turns fascist in the end. The current world order is awful because it is dishonest fascism. Everyone is fascist but accuses the other side of being fascist. This distorts power and perception because people can’t make peace with fascism that touches upon everything in their lives.

    Russian failed with communism and then failed with raw capitalism in the 90s. Its current system is fascist. China failed with communism and embarked on market economics and world trade. But it has rejected full-blown liberalization because it saw what happened in Russia. So, China is about blend of socialism and capitalism under nationalist rule. It is fascist. And Israel is a fascist-democracy. It has elections but its core themes aren’t liberal democracy but people, culture, history, and territory. Strong fascist themes.

    The US is now fascist in the worst way. One way to define fascism is ideological pragmatism. It fused any bunch of -isms to arrive at the right balance. Fascism is thus ‘creative’ than dogmatic. The current ruling elites of the US are very creative in their use of various forms of power to get what they want. But they pretend they are perfect ‘liberal democrats’. Because they are so dishonest about their creative use of power, they are nothing more than gangster-fascists.

    Israel has lots of problems, and Netanyahu is a something of a cretin. But, there is a saving grace about Israeli fascism. It is honest. It is about blood and soil, it is about Jewish identity and power, it is about a sense of culture and history. And there is real nobility in that. It means Jews in Israel will be adaptive and creative in whatever to secure the survival and power of Jews in the Holy Land.

    In contrast, Jewish elites in the US cannot admit that much of their actions are really meant to serve Jewish interests. So, they have to hide what they are doing or lie about it or call it ‘liberal democracy’; it’s all so phony.
    Because the Power in the US is exercised with rank dishonesty, it can only operate as tribal gangsterism. Israeli rulers may sometimes act like gangsters but they are patriotic heroes to the extent that they are openly fighting for what they truly believe in.
    In contrast, Jews elites in the US have to cover up the tribal aspect of their machinations in the Media, Deep State,and much else. It was the same in Russia of the 1990s. When a minority elite works mainly for tribal interests but then covers up its narrow agenda with bogus talk of ‘universal’ values, it’s intellectual and moral cretinism draped over power-gangsterism. Fascism needs to be honest and associated with noble themes to be work properly.

  537. @jilles dykstra

    Klemperer survived the attentions of the Third Reich because he was a Jew in a mixed marriage: Hitler, Himmler et. al. were never able to make up their minds as to what to do with such Jews, so the matter was left to the whim of this or that regional Gauleiter; some did not lift a finger, others deported the Jew and gave the German partner the option to accompany/not accompany the Jewish partner. One interesting case involved a Jew and his German wife: the wife elected to accompany her husband on a deportation transport going “to the East”. Upon arriving at Vilna, Lithuania, in June of 1942, she quickly assessed the lethal situation and filed for divorce. Which she was granted and then allowed to return to Deutschland. The husband was put to forced labor; and the 2 mixed-race children, “a boy of 13 years and a 9-year-old girl” – both judged too young for work – were

    “sent to Ponary and treated as Jews”

    via Vilna Gebietskommissariat report in B. Baranauskas, ed. Documents Accuse (Vilna, 1970), p. 255.

    @Wally: don’t bother trying impugn the document by impugning the source, a typical codoh trick. The validity of a document depends entirely on its internal aspects – ink, paper, etc. – and its correlation/non-correlation with other evidence, not the asserted quality of the source.

    on second thought, do it anyway. It’s all you got. Along with

    chirp-chirp-bodies-chirp-the-bodies-chirp-chirp-chirp-where-chirp-are-chirp-the-chirp-bodies-chirp-squawwwk…

  538. j2 says:
    @Alden

    “The camps, complex of camps were built at Auschwitz because the town was a major railroad intersection where trains met, transferred freight and passengers and then headed east west north and south all over Europe.
    Workers and materials were brought in from all over and the finished products were loaded on trains and sent all over Europe.
    It was similar to the Chicago railroad yards, a continental transfer point”

    Oswiecim is a small town not to be compared with Chicago, but it is also not a far-away place for a killing center so that nobody can see or hear anything. There was an army garrison from Austrian times and the barracks were turned into a prison camp for Polish people after the invasion of 1939 and used as a concentration camp for Jews transported from West to East. West here means all other countries occupied by Germans except for Poland and the SU of 1940 and by East in mean the SU of 1940, so West includes Hungary, Czech and so on. The Jewish population of the west was 1.82M of which 1.12-1.2M were transported. Western Poland (the part occupied by Germany in 1939) alone had the Jewish population of 1.6-1.8M. So it was natural to transport Jews to Poland on their way to the East. First Germans planned to transport Jews to the Lublin area, after annexing Western Poland to the Reich. Later they decided to move Jews even further to the East to what is now Ukraine and White Russia. Auschwitz is in a quite natural place for a transfer point for Jews, despite of not being a railroad cross point. It is close to coal areas of Silesia, so a natural place for synthetic oil and rubber production. Other collection points for Jews included large ghettos in Warsaw and Lodz.

  539. Otterboy says:
    @Crimson2

    @Crimson2

    ‘I appreciate that Ron Unz is no longer even pretending not to be a Nazi.’

    Really? A rather strange and deluded view in my humble opinion. But hey! That’s the beauty of free speech. Ron Unz, who pays for and runs this site with this own funds, will even allow someone like you to comment and personally insult him. Amazing isn’t it? And all the other readers and commenters can decide for themselves if your comment has any merit.

    Do you see just how beautiful free speech really is? And how crucially important it is?

    Unfortunately in a growing bunch of countries you go to jail for trying to exercise one’s right to free speech about the alleged holocaust. If it really happened, exactly as the way you (and me previously) have been led to believe by the official narrative then the truth and facts will stand for themselves.

    Just as some moderator hasn’t deleted your comment accusing the owner of this site of being a nazi (whatever that means), why are we not allowed to question certain facts about what happened during a certain time in our recent history?

    In fact, even here in the UK , where it’s still not (probably not for very long) a criminal offence, you will suffer serious consequences for expounding your own personal views about what happened in any public forum. It’s bad enough that my Jewish family would simply love to kill me and they’d do it in an instant if they knew they could get away with it. They hate us ‘self hating Jews’ the most, the ones that ‘go rogue’ from within who suddenly want to leave the tribe and join the universal human race

    I totally disagree with every word you said but I absolutely agree that you should have the right to say it.

    • Replies: @S
    , @crimson2
  540. @MarkinPNW

    ” worked for a German farmer (basically as slave labor) who treated her much better than she was treated in the camp ”

    Thanks for confirming two of my points, those not belonging to the autonomous inmate camp management had a very bad life, most of the time short, six months, as several former camp inmates describe in the books they wrote, plus that the average German was a decent person.

  541. @Colin Wright

    ” Hitler killed his millions in pursuit of his agenda of racial purification. ”
    Any proof for these two assertions ?

  542. What I miss in all these reactions is that some 70 million people died in WWII, among them some ten million Germans, nearly a quarter of the total population.
    Nobody further mentions Eisehower’s letter with the sentence ‘we should have killed more Germans’.
    Then there was the Morgenthau plan, killing some more ten million Germans by starvation.
    Churchill prevented this.
    As to Eisenhower’s letter, according to the West Point yearbook he was a jew, see
    James Bacque, ´Der geplante Tod, Deutsche Kriegsgefangene in amerikanischen und französischen Lagern 1945 – 1946, Frankfurt/M, 1989, 1994 (Other losses, Toronto, 1989)
    Eisenhower with De Gaulle killed about a million German POW’s.
    Anon tries to deny the possibility that Churchill technically was a jew, in any case Churchill was a zionist.
    How many people know that Roosevelt descended from Portuguese jews, I wonder.
    That FDR deliberately provoked Pearl Harbour in order to be able to wage war now is beyond any dispute.
    Hitler still is blamed for WWII, he never wanted war, FDR did, as his friend Sol Bloom wrote in his autobiography.
    Beard also demonstrates that FDR wanted war.
    Lindbergh knew this quite well.

  543. j2 says:
    @Alden

    “Black Death was spread by people and things that travelled. Whether it was a shipment of fabric from town to village, a monk on a trip back to his monastery or a Jew or anyone else traveling, the fleas spread.”

    But curiously the Black Death did not spread to Poland, where Jews had just been admitted. And the second curious thing is that the Black Death was spread by two different strains of the bacteria. One is the known one coming from Crimea, the other appeared at the same time in the Netherlands. That is some coincidence. Yet, some villains spread the plague later: Jacob Frank write the Sayings of the Lord and there tells how he and his friends were taking everything from people infected with plague, not giving them any money, and reselling them to town people, who got the disease. The villains did not get ill, so they did not touch the stuff they sold. The fast spread of the Black Death indicates that it was intentionally spread by some people, not by rats or accidentally by people.

  544. @Isabella

    I would like to add that, contrary to the picture of the map of Europe and Russia, that Russia does NOT outlaw being a “Holocaust Denier”.

    Well as Israel Shamir wrote in his last article, a Holocaust denier in Russia is current getting prosecuted under Article 282 (a general “hate” speech law that Shamir otherwise supports for people he dislikes). So de facto Holocaust denial in Russia is criminalized.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @Wally
  545. Biff says:
    @L.K

    Gee, what a truly pathetic little troll you are!

    And you jerks keep feeding it. Over and over.

  546. j2 says:
    @Erebus

    “This is originally from utu: If the Holocaust revisionism is to be taken seriously it must come up with the story for the vanished religious Jews of Poland. But it can’t present a credible story of survival because these Jews indeed died during the WWII while in a custody of German occupying forces.

    And this is from Erebus: The Polish Jews were concentrated in the east, and so were in the “custody” of the Red Army in the early stages of the war, and not the Wehrmacht’s.”

    Erebus is incorrect. The Jewish population of Poland was not concentrated on East.

    There was a census in Poland in 1931. In 1931 21.8 million Polish citizens lived in the area captured by Germany in 1939 and 13.2 million lived in the area taken by Soviets. By mother’s tongue there were 8.5% Jews in Poland in 1931 and in areas captured by Soviet Union in 1939 there were 8.4% Jews by mother’s tongue. By religion there were 8.89% Jews in Poland in 1931.

    The Jewish population in Poland in 1939 was 3.25 million according to AJY 1948–49. Estimates range between 3.2 and 3.3 million, but it is possible that some hundred thousands had emigrated to Western Europe. In France there were many Polish Jews. For simplicity I will assume here that 3.25 million were in Poland in 1939.

    Calculating from these numbers we conclude that by religion in the Soviet occupied area were 8.79% Jews in 1931, i.e., 1.16 million. Thus, in West-Poland in 1931 lived 1.954 million Jews. In 1939 the numbers had risen to 1.21 million and 2.039 million. But when Germany attacked in 1939 336.000 Polish people escaped to East-Poland. Of them 198.000 were Jews. These refuges were taken to Siberia and only a small number of them survived. So, there were 2.039–0.198=1.841 million Jews in West-Poland.

    That is, 1.84 million Jews were in the area occupied by Germany in 1939 and 1.41 million in the area occupied by the Soviet Union.

    To the question from utu: Holocaust revisionism must come up with the story for the vanished religious Jews of Poland. But it can’t present a credible story of survival.

    I do not think holocaust revisionism must come up with a story of how most of Polish Jews survived. I think most of them died, but not as in the official story. Let us start from 1.84 million Jews in Western Poland. Small transports between East and West increase this number by 60,000, so we have 1.9 million Jews, while in the east it is 1.35 million. Of these 1.9 million Jews died 0.17M in ghettos and labor camps, 0.06M in Majdanek, 0.15M in Chelmno, 0.06 in Auschwitz, 0.05M in 1939 invasion, terror and Warsaw ghetto uprising. These sum to 0.49M. There survived 0.08M in Western Poland not caught by Nazis, about 0.1M in concentration camps as survivors. Together 0.67M. The rest 1.9-0.67=1.23M were sent to Operation Reinhard camps. There died, say 0.12M. Left is 1.11M taken into Ukraine. Additionally there were 1.35M Jews of Eastern Poland. What happened to them?

    Let us notice that the 1.35M Jews of Eastern Poland were born in present day Ukraine and they were in no sense Polish Jews after the war. Many of them died, the rest are in the survivors of Soviet Jews. We only need to explain what happened to about 1.11M Polish Jews. To DP camps came 104,000 Polish Jews and 268,000 Eastern Jews after 1946. Very few were from Western Europe. The 268,000+104,00=372,000 apparently were mostly Jews of Western Poland as they were allowed to escape to the West. Left to explain is about 750,000. If 1.11M were taken to camps in the East, we can expect that some 400,000 died in these camps. This leaves 350,00 unexplained.

    So, where are the 350,000? I suggest the simple solution that the Jewish population of Poland was not 3.25M, it was 2.75M in 1939. Half a million Polish Jews were mostly in Western Europe, many in France, and they are calculated as Jews from Western countries.

    In this way there is no special problem in explaining the fate of Polish religious Jews. The answer is that 1.35M were in the SU after 1939 and many of them died but they ceased being Polish Jews when Poland lost the area. Of the Western 1.9M survived 180,000 in the West and 370,000 in the East and practically all emigrated to Israel and the USA between 1948 and 1953.

    The total number of survivors of Jews from Western Poland would be 0.55M, while from the Jews of Eastern Poland survived maybe 800,000, which were a part of 2M Soviet Jews in 1948 and not religious under that regime. Naturally this is only one estimation, but is it fair to write
    “But it can’t present a credible story of survival” ? I think it is a fairly credible story here.

  547. @Colin Wright

    I think a thread advocating Holocaust Denial

    Can you please help me understand what you mean by “advocating Holocaust Denial”, Colin?

    However, there is the detail that Holocaust did happen.

    And precisely what “is the detail that Holocaust did happen”, Colin?

    Can’t you all go play at Codoh or whatever that place is you keep linking to? It’d help.

    Can’t you stop monotonously bleating mindless mantras, Colin? Click on the link, Colin, it’d help.

  548. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums_in_the_United_States
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums

    There’s a big part of the ongoing holocaust nonsense problem. Add Hollywood’s contribution and our public school students being required to read propaganda like The Diary of Anne Frank, and we might as well all be North Koreans when it comes to this subject, all for the greater glory of the Jewish supremacist, apartheid and expansionist state of Israel.

    • Replies: @Wally
  549. j2 says:
    @James N. Kennett

    “From utu: Claiming that they did not die is exactly what Holocaust industry wants. The extreme Holocaust denialism serves Zionist interests. Codoh and Wally’s of this world are agent of Zionist interests as unwitting useful idiots at best.

    From James M. Kenneth: I agree. Because so many Jews lost family members in WWII, they are likely to view Holocaust deniers as deluded or unteachable at best, insane or malicious at worst. In the minds of those whose families and friends vanished, no further evidence is required: Holocaust deniers automatically disqualify themselves from being taken seriously. You might as well try to present a new theory of the Ice Ages, and begin by explaining that the Earth is flat.
    I think it is far more productive to examine the way that Jewish victimhood has been used to excuse or cover up all kinds of bad behavior by Jews.”

    The whole issue is this. If Hitler did not try to exterminate Jews but to solve the Jewish problem after the war by settling them somewhere, what was the somewhere? The answer can only be Israel. Hitler was pushing Jews out of Europe in order to create Israel. That was his task and that was why both world wars were fought, and that is what some people do not like to be known. Hitler was doing just what Zionists and Masons had decided to do. Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Kalisher had said it already in 1842: if Jews do not move to Palestine by 1939, they will move there but with much suffering. Kalisher counted on the help of Rothschild and Cremieux in the Zionist plan. Hitler was raised to power to execute the plan. Some very naive people try to see Nazis as defenders of White Aryans against the evil Jews. It was not so. Nazi party was created by a secret society created by a Mizraim Freemason and Theosophist Sebottendorf in order to execute the Judeo-Masonic plan of Israel. It is all about Israel. That was the dream for which 3M Jews died. I agree with utu, Wally plays for Zionist hands trying to explain that Nazis were not any different from Allies. Nazis worked for Zionists. The WWI gave Palestine, WWII put there the people.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  550. @jilles dykstra

    I am at a point of knowledge where I seldom must change a view, but a recent change were the two atomic bombs on Japan, together with the annihilation of the Kwantung army by the USSR the bombs may have saved some 20 million lives.

    Are you certain?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  551. @Colin Wright

    The point really is that we can absolutely prove literally nothing. Ultimately, I choose to believe the evidence that Tasmania exists — even if I’ve never been there, and never will.

    Tasmania is an island state of Australia. Tasmania’s geographic coordinates are 42°S 147°E. You can visit Tasmania by boarding a ship or plane.

    Ditto for the Holocaust.

    What is “the Holocaust”?

    too much damned evidence..

    What “evidence”? Please provide some of this copious “evidence”, Colin.

  552. @Colin Wright

    Oh well. I’ll resign.

    Then why do you monotonously continue to bleat mindless mantras, Colin?

  553. JackOH says:

    Ron, many thanks for this astoundingly iconoclastic piece. My own attitude toward Jewish suffering during the Nazi period is pretty much the same “temperate skepticism” as I’m seeing in comments by Kratoklastes and a few other folks here. I think Amazon has removed some books questioning the Holocaust narrative, which is likely, in my opinion, to prove to be a bad idea for philo-Semites, anti-Semites, and everybody else.

    Stay safe, buddy. Are you accepting free advice from afar? Consult informally with your local gun club or law enforcement officer regarding lawful ownership and use of a handgun or long gun in self-defense. Then make your own decision. Best wishes from the Buckeye State.

  554. Olorin says:

    Orson Welles’s famous War of the Worlds radio-play which terrified so many millions of Americans in 1938 turned out to be a hoax rather than real.

    No, Mr. Unz.

    https://mediamythalert.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/why-the-panic-broadcast-myth-lives-on/

  555. @Colin Wright

    No one gives a shit what you think.

  556. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    OT, but to your query, I suspect Organized Jewry will try to ally with India. It makes sense for a number of reasons.

  557. @byrresheim

    The great thing about truth is consistency.
    Someone here wrote about me trusting authors.
    I do not trust any author.
    What I do when reading a book is comparing what is written with what I already know, through the comparing process.
    Even then, one might say, there is the theoretical possibility that the comparing process did not provide truth.
    However, I consider this possibility negligible once one has read a lot of books, never counted the WWII books, but it must be several hundred.
    History just becomes interesting in detail.
    Sweeping generalisations, they mean nothing to me.
    The book I menstioned about Japan’s decision to surrender is so detailed, so full of references, and so consistent with what I already knew that, in the absence of contradictory new facts, I’m convinced that the two atomic bombs, with the annihilation of the Kwantung army, saved some 21 million lives, 20 on the Japan side, one on the USA side.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  558. @j2

    I mentioned Madagaskar several times:
    Hans Jansen, ‘Der Madagaskar Plan, Die beabsichtigte Deportation der europäischen Juden nach Madagaskar’, München 1997

  559. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Post of the month. Mr. Unz, I hope this post will be archived because a lot more people stand to be informed by it, if they are able to overcome their conditioned repulsion.

  560. @j2

    Re. Treblinka et al., the claim that revisionists must come up with an account acceptable to believers is simply vapid. There is no evidence that what is claimed to have happened at the AR camps actually happened, and it is sufficient to make this claim and disbelieve this part of the official story. (FWIW I suspect these Jews died somewhere in the SU as more-or-less normal war casualties, and were double-counted by the Soviets in propagandizing their losses.)

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @j2
  561. caveman says:
    @Rational

    My Dear “Rational”:
    I sense you misunderstand the function and purpose of the word ‘quarbanot’, as well as the word we translate as ‘Yahweh’. These Hebrew words are totally misunderstood and twisted by those that ignorantly do not understand the words, or their meanings. As I have often shared, if those that called themselves ‘Jehovah Witness’ understood the Hebrew word YHVH (Yahweh, Jehovah, LORD) they would change the name of their religious denomination, as well as their conduct. All religions distort the simple purity of the Holy Spirit of Truth in Love, that which Yashua referred to as ‘My Father’.

  562. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Hi Mr. Ron Unz,
    … Having considered your extensive expose on Holocaust denial, I am wondering why you have not addressed the case of David Cole’s visit to Auschwitz.
    … Given this student’s surreptitiously gained access to the notorious Auschwitz extermination camp, and afterward appeared on the popular Phil Donahue Show, revealed his findings which shocked the huge American TV audience.
    … Essentially, having focused upon Auschwitz rather than other alleged extermination camps, i.e., Dachau, David Cole became a major voice in the history of Holocaust revisionism.
    Thanks very much, Ron!

  563. For those unaware of David Cole’s unique expose, please refer to documentary, provided, below. Thanks!

    • Replies: @geokat62
  564. utu says:
    @j2

    Did you read:

    Walter N. Sanning: The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/29-tdoeej.pdf

    He estimates population of Jews in Poland to be 2.633 mln. And then considers a possibility of massive evacuations to the USSR. You have a knack for statistics so perhaps you could evaluate his work.

    • Replies: @j2
  565. @peterAUS

    Wally et al do not have a proven track record of advocating the censorship of shoah speech. They also do not have a record of advocating the incarceration of those who promulgate the shoah narrative. Much more, they have played no role in the actual implementation and enforcement of such brutal, Stalinist measures.

    You implicitly concede that your observations are bereft of any evidence to the contrary. Nevertheless, you contend that you position somehow has merit by advancing a sweeping, generalized, undifferentiated asseveration that “my position is based on observation, hard facts about human nature, and ‘power corrupts.’”

    What are the observations underpinning your assertion? You cite none. An inability to specify a single example of the proffered proposition is check and mate.

    Hard facts about human nature? Yes, it applies to those who support legislation silencing dissent as well as those who participate in the arrest, prosecution, sentencing, and jailing of people expressing such dissent.

    Hard facts about human nature? Yes, it applies to those who choose to believe that they are the chosen and that they have been victimized and that he who says otherwise goes to the gallows. Yes, that is human nature. An evil side of human nature.

    The behavior of Wally et al, on the other hand, manifests no such evil side.

    Those who favor censorship and incarceration are, per se, evil. Those who point this out, not so much.

    • Replies: @bj
  566. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Mighty writes. ” (FWIW I suspect these Jews died somewhere in the SU as more-or-less normal war casualties, and were double-counted by the Soviets in propagandizing their losses.)”

    I do not exclude the possibility that in the SU Nazis intentionally practiced Darwinian selection on Jews. I will explain why I think it is possible. In the Wannsee minutes there is a statement that Jews will build roads while being transported, many will die but the strongest will survive and be the seed of the new Jewish people. I take this on face value, not as disguised reference to extermination. If taken on face value, one goal is improvement of Jews by natural selection before being settled somewhere. That is so close to cleansing of the people before return to the Promised land to happen in the Great Persecution. And rich Western Jews though the Eastern Jews were degenerated, too many mentally ill, not fit to agricultural work in Palestine.

    It depends of course on whether Hitler wanted to settle the Jews to Palestine for creation of a new Israel, or if he planned moving them to Madagascar for instance. Zionists had discarded the Madagascar plan, though it was considered. In Hitler’s library there is a book with Hitler’s underlining that Jews must be restored to Palestine. Hitler though he had a mission (from God?). If this mission was only to rid Germany of Jews, Hitler did not need to collect Jews from Western Europe. He never intended to keep Western Europe in the Reich. The mission was to move Jews to their new homeland and if so, it could not be Madagascar as Jews had discarded it. It had to be Palestine. Hitler claimed that bankers wanted a new world war. Let’s take that on face value. These bankers were Zionists. They wanted Israel and to get Israel, they needed Jews to Palestine.

    I think the situation is that there are two types of mistaken people. One type says that they lost their family in the Holocaust because Christians occasionally go berserk and that is why they need Israel, a safe haven for them. But these people do not understand that the order to kill their family came from the Zionists who wanted to create Israel. The other type are people who think that Nazis just wanted Jews out and they treated them in a normal way, and that Nazis were real nationalists and they opposed Zionists. These people do not understand that Zionists created Nazis with the help of Masons to get the people to Israel and otherwise there was no need for any world wars. So, then these two mistaken people accuse each others.

    • Replies: @Wally
  567. Anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:

    Mr. Unz, I am perplexed about something. I am one of the few people who know that Judaism is a religion, ot a race, and to be a Jew simply means that you are simply a member of a religious group, even those who seem to subscribe to only one tenet and that is “the blood of my mother defines what you believe, i.e. who you are”. It is an identity, racial in character. Christianity teaches that this is a heresy – an error in thought. Neither the blood of your mother or father defines who a person is or what he believes. It is spirit, not blood, that defines him.

    Most people, including most Jews, believe the opposite – believe that being a Jew is a racial matter – that it is blood and not spirit which defines you, which tells you who you are. And there is much in our present day environment which reinforces that error. There is the Jewish teaching about the blood of your mother; there are these notions about “anti-semetism”, there are what we were taught were the racialist teachings of Hitler (if they are even true); there is the reinforcement by Jews who convert to Christianity and who still call themselves Jews (certainly contrary to how St. Paul viewed himself); and there is even the results of Ancestry.com to whom you send your DNA, and they come back and tell you that you are a Jew, which is impossible. Being a Jew is not racial – being a member of a religious group is not incorporated into your DNA.

    You are the only person who seems to know that this is error, either on an intellectual level or a visceral one.

    There was a young woman, who had Hassidic parents. Her name was Finkelstein. She came to school, and announced that she wasn’t a Jew. All her Christian friends told her, “what are you talking about – of course, you are Jewish – your name is Finkelstein.” She screamed back, “no, I’m not.” I told these girls that she was correct and that they were wrong. If she doesn’t believe what her parents believe, she is not a Jew, so stop telling her she is. She knows she is not.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  568. j2 says:
    @utu

    I read Walter N. Sanning a long time ago. I looked at the growth of the USA Jewish population just because Sanning’s claims but found only 1M unexplained part, a bit lower than his estimate. For Poland, I think the Jewish population in 1939 was not less than 3.25-0.5=2.75M where 0.5M had moved to Western Europe. This is because otherwise there are not enough Jews to all known losses and survivors. (of course the difference between 2.633 and 2.75 is very small) For the evacuations to deeper in Russia I accept his 60-80% estimate, as most do. I may have been an organized evacuation or a flight, but only 1-1.5M stayed when Germans came. Deaths in the SU cannot be precisely quantified due to lack of data. My estimates can be considered as independent verification of Sanning’s calculations based on AJC Yearbook data. He may be correct with 2-2.5M losses, or it may be around 3M.

    The stupid thing Soviets did was to claim that all extermination camps were in Poland. The present Poland was the Western Poland occupied by Germany with Jewish population of 1.84M max. Nazis took 1.12M people from other countries and only this many Jews could get to Western Poland. So, 3M is the maximum. Most Jews were in the SU area of 1940. There were some 1.35+2.8=4.15M (or less, but these are the AJC Yearbook numbers). Germans transported only very few from East to West.

    But Soviets did not want the extermination of Jews to have happened in the SU, as it might have created questions of how they died and the large crematories were in Auschwitz. So, Soviets claimed that well over 3M died in extermination camps in Poland. Originally they put 4.5-5M deaths to Poland and 1-1.5M to Ukraine. I believe it, of course, there were 3M and died 5M, God’s miracle. Today in Europe you have to believe in miracles.

    Strangely, main stream Holocaust researchers, who supposedly have researched the issue for decades, never noticed this arithmetic problem. That shows how much confidence you should have to main stream Holocaust researchers.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  569. iffen says:
    @utu

    Hannah Arendt had access to Hilberg’s book manuscript (which she did not acknowledge)

    That’s odd.

    I found something like 12 citations to Hilberg by her in my edition.

    For example:

    … and I have relied even more on Raul Hilberg’s The Destruction of the European Jews …

    Arendt, Hannah. Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil (Kindle Location 4936). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    • Replies: @utu
  570. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    It is chilling to read the author’s recitations of the awful things that happened to other debunkers, and consider what he doesn’t mention, and that is that with this article, he has put himself in line for similar treatment, one way or another.

  571. Wade says:
    @Robjil

    I often wondered whether something like this might have happened to Irving. Given the history of our masters and all we know of them, it was inevitable. If it is true that he was coerced, I hope he leaves some kind of a deathbed confession. But I bet he won’t. He has children from what I understand and as vicious as the Jews have been they may have threatened them as well.

    As for Irving, we owe this man a lot. No one was able to save him from solitary confinement in Austria. Dealing with such adversity is not normally what we expect from our historians. He had to endure so much on his own. Every man has a breaking point. Irving is still a hero in my book.

  572. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @ChuckOrloski

    It’s been a long time since any TV show would allow anything like a “Holocaust denier” on its stage/cameras. The scope of discourse has been narrowed considerably in deference to this issue.

    This issue and, in fact, others too.

  573. wesmouch says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mr Unz
    Thanks for your outstanding article. I, like many, assumed the conventional story of the holocaust to be factual. Only recently have I started to have my doubts. I am most disturbed by the efforts of the promoters of the Holocaust to demonize and destroy any one who is a skeptic or who expresses doubt about its veracity. Now this is standard modus operandi for the left but if you would imagine anyone questioning the validity of any well known conventional wisdom such as gravity. They would be greeted with dismay and avoidance but there would be no orchestrated attempt to vilify and destroy them. They would be shunned as kooks. This alone tells me that in all likelihood the holocaust story as told is likely not what it seems. Throw in the propensity of Jews to be shysters and active users of guilt to manipulate and that makes the holocaust story perhaps even more questionable. I myself remain a skeptic and remain open to all sides. I am saddened by the response of the Holocaust promoters to not participate in open debate and declare that the debate is over. It reminds me of the climate lunatics who have declared that the debate is over. It is not in climate change. That movement is definitely a fraud.

  574. Wally says:
    @j2

    You’re dreaming.

    On the thoroughly discredited and faked Wannsee Conference minutes, former Yad Vashem “Holocau$t’ Theme Park director, Yehuda Bauer, said:

    “The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at.”
    source: Canadian Jewish News, 30 January 1992.

    Facts:

    Kempner’s behaviour with evidence was also highly questionable. He would later turn up in German foreign ministry files the Original Copy No. 16 (SIXTEEN) of the Wannsee Protocol, and bestow upon it a wholly undeserved reputation as a key document in the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem; despite the aura which now surrounds it, the document contains no explicit reference to the killing of Jews. It is complete with ‘Geheime Kommandosache’ rubber stamps. Not only did the R.H.S.A., the agency supposedly originating the document, use the civilian classification ‘Geheime Reichssache’ on it’s documents, but the statistics contained in the document bore little relation either to each other or to reality.

    There is further evidence of skulduggery in the documents collected by Kempner’s office on the Final Solution. The Nuremberg document experts routinely produced ‘staff evidence analysis sheets’ on the documents that came into their hands, indicating where they were found, and which individuals were mentioned or incriminated by them.

    The sheet on document 4055-PS, a photostat of parts of the German ministry of the interior file on the Final Solution, shows that when first analysed by the experts it contained four important items relating to discussions on definitions of Jews; one of these four documents originating in the spring of 1942, showed Staatssekretaer Franz Schlegelberger informing his staff at the justice ministry that Dr. Hans Lammers, chief of the Reich chancellery, had phoned to inform him the the Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler, had ‘repeatedly’ ordered the solution of the Jewish problem ‘postponed until after the war was over’. This did not suit Kempner at all, and when the file was returned to the document centre this particular photostat was missing.”

    – There is no original, only an alleged “original copy” #16. LOL
    – 30 copies of the Wannsee Protocol are supposed to have been prepared. Of these 30 copies, only 1, the 16th, has survived, quite remarkably, in several different versions.
    much more:
    Wannsee Conference minutes debunked: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1647
    and:
    The Wannsee Conference Protocol, Anatomy of a Fabrication, by Johannes Peter Ney: https://codoh.com/library/document/934/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  575. Anonymous[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The great thing about truth is consistency.
    Someone here wrote about me trusting authors.
    I do not trust any author.
    What I do when reading a book is comparing what is written with what I already know, through the comparing process.

    A sincere question. How do you become confident that what you “already know” is in fact true? If it isn’t, doesn’t that corrupt this comparing process?

    History just becomes interesting in detail.

    Could you please elaborate? Maybe with an example?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  576. @ChuckOrloski

    ” to the notorious Auschwitz extermination camp, ”

    I get the impression that you do not know that there was no ‘the’ Auschwitz.
    There were many camps at Auschwitz, as even Elie Wiesel describes.
    Auschwitz was an important industrial center, as you also can understand from Wiesel.
    The camp seen as notorious is Birkenau, because there were the crematoria.
    Birkenau was the camp for those seen unfit for work.
    Wiesel did describe the chimneys, he saw them from far away, and assumed that the gas chambers were there.

    How important the Auschwitz factories for synthetic rubber, oil and aircraft fuel, from coal and water, both abundant at Auschwitz, were, is demonstrated by the fact that after the factories had been extensively bombed from N Italy, beginning in the autumn of 1944, and were overrun by the Red Army later, hundreds of jet fighters could not be used against especially USA fighter bombers.
    The German jet fighters were far superior to the USA planes, with a top speed of some 900 kmh they were some 200 kmh faster than the USA planes.

  577. @Jett Rucker

    Denial is about a fact, ‘the suspect denies the murder’, then there is a body of someone who met a violent death.
    The holocaust is not a fact, that is, nobody denies the persecutions of jews, the discussion is about mass murder in gas chambers.
    There just are gas chamber sceptics.

  578. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    IOW, you’ve been challenged for proof of the utterly impossible narrative and cannot produce it. That’s your problem, we’re just the messengers.

    Your threats are noted and speak volumes about what and who you represent.

    There was no genocide of Jews, except in your / their minds . It’s telling that Jews have been claiming their fake 6M since 1823.

    Why do you want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists bring life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered. Jews should be elated.

    Times are changing, the genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in. ‘The ‘holocaust’ narrative is a fraud and everyday more & more people are realizing it.

    You will never be the same again.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  579. bj says:
    @Liberty Mike

    I suspect the “power corrupts” meme is an inversion of reality to deflect the normal mind from observing the psychopathy of many in positions of power and responsibility. These types eventually corrupt societies, until societal collapse ensues.

    A more accurate reality is “the corrupt seek power”. Psychopathy seeks power over others, rather than honest labor and creativity. The parasitic personality types eventually corrupt all bureaucratic structures, after the builders have left the creation event.

    “Political Ponerology (A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes) by Andrew M. Lobaczewski”

  580. @Anonymous

    I wrote there is the theoretical possibility that that what I think I already know is fake.
    However, that so many writers succeeded in writing consistent lies, highly improbable.
    Great detail, for example the book about Japan’s capitulation, that describes from day to day, sometimes from minute to minute, what went on, based on interviews, documents, etc., and comparing these with one another.
    Another one is
    Mario Toscano, ‘Designs in Diplomacy, Pages from European Diplomatic History in the Twentieth Century’, 1970 Baltimore
    very detailed description, based to a large extent on diplomatic records, especially interesting about the period after Badaglio had deposed Mussolini.
    Those that do not believe in conspiracies should not read the book.
    Then there are the books, several, that describe what went on in August 1939, just before Hitler attacked Poland.
    Great consistency, on how Hitler did anything to prevent war, as did Göring.
    The Swede Dahlarus flew up and down between Berlin and London in Göring’s plane, to no avail.
    Alas, the Polish provocations were such that Hitler could no longer ignore them, unless he accepted the loss of prestige.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  581. Sam says:
    @Ron Unz

    On Hoggan

    you may want to see Gary North’s comments on him.

    Hoggan was not trustworthy. Nobody could safely trust anything he wrote that didn’t have a footnote, and which could be verified as valid. It took me a couple of decades to figure this out. He had a photographic memory, but he made up events. He would say that something happened, but he would never supply a footnote. Nobody else had ever heard that a particular event had happened. An example was this: “During the first world war, British submarines attacked both German and neutral commerce in the Baltic Sea.” This statement appears on page 148 of his book, The Myth of the ‘New History’ (Craig Press, 1965). A few years later, I asked him about this. What was his documentation for this? He answered blithely: “Everybody knows that.” In 1975, I spoke at a tiny seminar of students at the University of Southern California. It was on revisionist history. It had been organized by James J. Martin. He was an outstanding revisionist historian, one of the last. He died in comparative security. He could not secure a teaching position at any university. After my presentation, he asked if I ever knew what the source was for Hoggan’s statement about submarine warfare conducted by the British. I simply recited the statement that Hoggan had given to me. He had never heard of it, either. That cheered me up.

    He died in 1988, an academic pariah. Except in a very limited circle of amateur revisionist historians who were interested in Holocaust revisionism, nobody knew who he was. The academic community in the United States never paid any attention to him. His book on 1939 European foreign policy was the only book of significance published in English, and it was significant for the fact that virtually the entire academic community of modern European historians regarded its thesis as preposterous. I share that view. World War II did not begin because of Lord Halifax.https://www.garynorth.com/public/17455.cfm

    On the more general untrustworthiness of David Hoggan’s “scholarship”:

    Then there is the other form of revisionist history of World War II, the suggestion that the German government did not kill six million Jews. The historian whose name is quietly associated with this theory is David L Hoggan. He wrote an anonymous book, The Myth of the Six Million. He did not put his name on it. It still is published in the holocaust denial movement. I know that he wrote it because he showed me the original manuscript. My office was next door to his in the summer of 1963. I read it. Years later, I read a printed version of it. It was the same book. It is online here.

    Hoggan was the author of a history of the coming of the war in Europe in September 1939, when Germany invaded Poland. The German language edition was published in 1961. In this book, he maintained that Hitler was only attempting to enforce what the Riverside treaty had guaranteed to Germany, namely, access to the North Sea through Poland. Germany was supposed to have access to the free city of Danzig. Poland would not allow this. Hoggan maintained that Hitler made a legitimate demand. The Polish government had no legal case.

    The English language version of the book had a different title: The Forced War: When Peaceful Revision Failed. It was published in 1989 by the Holocaust Institute for Historical Review, which is known as the most hard-core of the hard-core World War II revisionist organizations. it is available as a PDF download here.

    Hoggan had written his doctoral dissertation on this topic when he was at Harvard University. He wrote it under William L. Langer, who soon became the dean of the establishment historians on the issue of the war in Europe and America’s entry into it. He had actually been one of the policymakers at the State Department. It was a two-volume defense of what he and his colleagues had engineered to take the United States into the war.

    Langer always maintained that Hoggan revised his Ph.D. thesis in order to make it look as though Hitler was not primarily to blame. He said that in his original dissertation, Hoggan placed blame on the English, the Poles, France, and Hitler. Hoggan denied that this was the case. We spoke about it in the summer of 1963. I took his word for it. That was a mistake.

    In 1971, I went to Boston in order to do research on my Ph.D. dissertation on Puritan colonial history. I went to Harvard and read his dissertation. Harvard has a rule that the only way you can read a Harvard Ph.D. dissertation is with written permission of the author unless you go to Harvard and read the dissertation. I did not get permission. I sat in Harvard’s library and read the dissertation. It was obvious that Langer was telling the truth. It was equally obvious that Hoggan either had lied to me about not making any change in the thesis of his dissertation, or else his nearly photographic memory had failed him on the most important issue of his career.https://www.garynorth.com/public/17454.cfm

    For more on Hoggan:
    http://garynorth.com/Hoggan1992.pdf

    On Denial
    You would have been wise to read David Cole. He seems much more levelheaded and trustworthy about this than David Irving:

    [MORE]

    Which is as good an entry point as any to the fact that Holocaust denial is dead.

    What is Holocaust denial? It’s what you hear when ignorant goobers shout “€œHolohoax.”€ In essence, Holocaust denial is the belief that the worst the Nazis were guilty of was second-degree murder. Sure, Jews were rounded up and put into camps, and sure, some Jews died there, but from typhus and other diseases”€”not premeditated murder. That is denial. And when I say it’s dead, I don”€™t mean that no one subscribes to that factually bereft take on history. What I mean is that the three people most likely to be cited as the top experts in the “€œfield”€ of denial completely dismiss the views of the deniers.

    David Irving is no longer a denier, if he ever was one. He accepts the fact that Jews were slaughtered en masse by mobile Einsatzgruppen units in the months following the invasion of Russia, he accepts the liquidation of the Jews in the Ostland (Eastern territory) ghettos, and he accepts that the “€œReinhard”€ camps (Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor) were extermination centers. Mark Weber, whose Institute for Historical Review defined Holocaust revisionism (and denial) in the 1990s, believes the same. And me? The “€œJewish revisionist”€? I never denied the Reinhard camps, the Ostland liquidations, or the Einsatzgruppen killings, and as early as 1995 I chided my fellow revisionists for rejecting the notion of a Nazi extermination program.

    Ah, Auschwitz. Yes, here’s where we still have a problem. Auschwitz is why Irving, Weber, and I are unlikely to be invited to the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s fall cotillion. If the Einsatzgruppen killings and the Reinhard extermination program are parts 1 and 2, respectively, of the Holocaust, there are genuine problems with what is commonly claimed to be part 3″€”that in 1943 Auschwitz-Birkenau was “€œrenovated”€ to become an ultra-super be-all end-all extermination facility. To me, the evidence just isn”€™t there, and the evidence that does exist calls that claim into question. But I”€™m not here to argue that point (I wrote a book to do that). What I”€™m here to argue is that Auschwitz is not the totality of the Holocaust. Most standard Holocaust histories agree that two-thirds of the Jews who were killed in the Holocaust were killed prior to the 1943 Auschwitz “€œrenovations.”€ If one accepts the Einsatzgruppen killings, the Ostland liquidations, and the Reinhard extermination program (and there are other provable instances of premeditated mass murder, but I”€™m painting with a broad brush for the sake of space), one is not a denier.

    Except that one is, by the standards set by the deniers and the Deborah Lipstadts of the world. Because both “€œsides”€ purposely push the nonsense that Auschwitz is the totality of the Holocaust. The deniers do so because they want to deflect attention from the premeditated killing periods and programs for which the evidence is by and large incontrovertible. The Lipstadts do so because, well, they”€™ve backed themselves into a corner by putting Auschwitz, with its phony, postwar tourist-attraction “€œgas chamber”€ and its complete lack of documentary evidence supporting a killing program, front and center as the heart of the Holocaust. They”€™re in so deep at this point that they can”€™t back off.

    And here comes the crucial section:

    It’s surprisingly easy to get the leading lights of anti-denial to admit as much one-on-one. Rick Eaton has been the senior researcher at the Simon Wiesenthal Center for thirty years. He’s as major a player in the fight against Holocaust denial as anyone on earth. Two years ago, I corresponded with him (under a pseudonym, of course…he”€™d never speak directly with the likes of me!) regarding the Auschwitz problem. I explained my thesis to him, that Auschwitz, having various “€œissues”€ that call the credibility of extermination claims into question, should not be used to represent the Holocaust. He agreed, adding that “€œdenying the Reinhard Camps and the Einsatzgruppen murders is likely too difficult to defend and Auschwitz is a lot easier to argue since there were multiple camps, slave labor used for weapons production, thousands of survivors and of course the 4 million number memorialized on a plaque at the camp, posted by the government and since removed.”€

    Of course, I couldn”€™t help but ask his opinion of the dreaded David Cole, who has on many occasions been labeled a “€œdenier”€ by the Wiesenthal Center. Eaton’s take? “€œI”€™d have to go back in our files but I”€™m not sure he ever questioned the Reinhard Camps. I can”€™t find much of anything he ever said denying the Reinhard Camps. Nizkor has a 1995 piece they archived in which he ridiculed [Holocaust denier] Robert Faurisson for denying the homicidal meaning of Goebbels”€™ March 27, 1942 diary entry.”€

    Well, at least privately they get it right. Buoyed by the confirmation that I”€™m not Satan, I expanded on my point about Auschwitz:

    It seems to me that two-bit anti-Semite frauds can use Auschwitz to score points for total Holocaust denial because in the mind of the public, Auschwitz IS the totality of the Holocaust, and therefore, questions about past problems with Auschwitz are seen as problems with the Holocaust as a whole. As you pointed out, it’s “€œeasier”€ to argue Auschwitz denial. But because of the tendency of scholars to (publicly) use Auschwitz to represent the totality of the Holocaust, it therefore becomes “€œeasier”€ to deny the entire thing. It would be great if future generations, when encountering those who question Auschwitz in order to deny the Holocaust, could automatically respond by saying “€œbut what about Treblinka and Sobibor and the Minsk Ghetto?”€ As you pointed out, deniers have a hard time dismissing those things…but the average person is usually not aware enough to bring them up.

    His response? “€œAgain, I agree with you.”€

    Keep in mind that even though I was using a pseudonym, I was not falsely claiming to be anyone of note. In other words, Eaton made that admission to a complete nobody, a total stranger. One gets the feeling that many of these experts are secretly longing for the day when they can be open about the “€œAuschwitz problem”€ and move past it”€”robbing denial of its only legitimate point, and strengthening Holocaust history in the process.http://takimag.com/article/denial_is_dead_david_cole/2/#axzz5PJxvgdtW

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  582. @Anonymous

    I am one of the few people who know that Judaism is a religion, ot a race, and to be a Jew simply means that you are simply a member of a religious group,

    Even if PT Barnum never coined the phrase associated with him, he was right.

  583. Wally says:
    @Unstremian

    Oh yawn.
    The simple fact of the matter is that you’ve been asked for proof of what you believe in. You cannot bring forth that proof. Frankly, that makes you a clueless, PC indoctrinated sap.
    Indeed Germany did nothing worse than what the Allies did. And true, there was no exterminations of Roma, Poles or any other ethnic group. Again, you cannot prove me wrong. You’re problem, not mine. Simple stuff, really.

    Why do you want so many people to be dead ? That’s quite insane & very hateful.
    You are truly the “fanatic” here, not me. Revisionists bring good news.

    Look where you are. Challenging the ridiculously fake ƌM Jews’ is now mainstream: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/05/paul-craig-roberts/morality-truth-facts/
    and:
    on Irving & ‘holocaust’: Ron Unz: A Defender of Truth: https://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/

    Get used to it. You will never be the same. Bye.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Unstremian
  584. Anonymous [AKA "Jake11"] says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I don’t think so.

    The unspoken reality is that Nazi Germany existed from its assertion that the Jews were the persecutors. The minority supremacists whose every day social and political behavior amounted to German persecution / oppression on large and small scales.

    Given what is known, I submit that we owe it to both ourselves and the Germans to take the historical Germans seriously as one of the view groups that seems to have behaved in a forthright manner.

  585. Che Guava says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    Ghost of Hamlet,

    Do you think I am such a fool as not to already knowing that?

    It is full of lies. I have not and will never be watching it. Reading synopsis is enough.

    Although he pushes the same line in AI, the robots express his fantasies of persecution.

    All of Spielerg’s films to pretend any connection with history are low propaganda and debase the source material.

    Who do you think is at the centre of the swirling rumours about top Hollywood having a paedophiliac layer?

    Personally, I have no idea, but the rumours have been around for over thirty years.

  586. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Thank you.

  587. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    Could you please provide citations for each of the figures you use here so that we may evaluate the reliability of the conclusion you arrived at?

    • Replies: @j2
  588. @Jett Rucker

    Aware of a ZUSA media reality, Jeff Tucker commented: “It’s been a long time since any TV show would allow anything like a “Holocaust denier” on its stage/cameras. The scope of discourse has been narrowed.”
    … Well said, Jeff. And a logical question is, why such is the case?
    … Am hoping Ron Unz might chime-in on the incredible matter of David Cole’s TV appearance on the Phil Donahue Show.
    … In addition, am not going off Marrakesh- track by getting into an exchange — with JillesDykstra — about David Cole’s choice to infiltrate a particularly notorious extermination camp which became an American “household name.”
    Selah, Elie Wiesel, “A man sees what he wants to see & disregards the rest.” (The Boxer, by Simon & Garfunkel)

  589. utu says:
    @iffen

    I got it from Hilberg’s “The Politics of Memory” that I read soon after it was published.

    Eichmann in Jerusalem, according to Hugh Trevor-Roper, is deeply indebted to Raul Hilberg’s The Destruction of the European Jews, so much so that Hilberg himself spoke of plagiarism.[21][22][23] The very points which Arendt borrows from Hilberg, were borrowed by Hilberg himself from H.G. Adler. (Wiki)

    Here is an article about Hilberg-Arendt:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/conscious-pariah/

    But no one who wrote about the Holocaust nettled Hilberg more than Hannah Arendt. Hilberg’s anger toward the German refugee and New York intellectual erupted with the publication of Eichmann in Jerusalem, in which Arendt told the tale of Adolf Eichmann, the man responsible for implementing the Final Solution, against the backdrop of his trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

    As Hilberg read Arendt’s articles about Eichmann, he noticed a number of striking similarities to his own research. He tallied them on an accounting spreadsheet stored in the accordion folder with the New Yorker issues. At the bottom of the spreadsheet he divided the instances into “cert.” and “prob.” and penciled hash marks next to each category.

    In Eichmann in Jerusalem Arendt was a little more forthcoming about her debt to Hilberg. The book includes a note on sources in which she describes The Destruction of the European Jews as “the most exhaustive and the most soundly documented account of the Third Reich’s Jewish policies.” There are five quotes in the book followed by a discreet “(Hilberg),” including a few she had not sourced to him in the New Yorker series. Still, many facts reported by Hilberg that appeared without attribution in Arendt’s magazine pieces remained uncredited to him in Eichmann.

    Arendt had access to Hilberg manuscript before its publication and she advised Princeton University Press against publishing it.

    Hilberg, unwilling to compromise, submitted the complete manuscript to several major publishing houses over the following six years, without luck. Princeton University Press turned down the manuscript, on Hannah Arendt’s advice, after quickly vetting it in a mere two weeks. After successive rejections from five prominent publishers, it finally went to press in 1961 under a minor imprint, the Chicago-based publisher, Quadrangle Books. (Wiki)

    When she was writing articles for New Yorker in 1963 Hilberg’s book was already published but she did nor acknowledged it as a source.

    The good question is why did she advise against its publication. It was before Eichmann was captured. Or is it true that she advised against publishing it? Both she and Hilberg were disliked by Zionists and all kinds of iffens for bringing to light passivity and collaboration of Jewish elites (Judenrats and Jewish Police) with Germans. There were many Kasztner like affairs throughout ghettos of Eastern Europe.

    Yad Vashem as early as 1958, declined to participate in its projected publication, fearing that it would encounter “hostile criticism”. (Wiki)

    But once Eichmann was under control the book was published and some dirty laundry was aired in Arendt’s New Yorker’s articles.

    March 1957 – Kasztner assassinated
    1958 – Yad Vashem decline publication of Hilberg book
    ???? -Princeton University Press turned down the manuscript, on Hannah Arendt’s advice
    May 1960 – Eichmann captured
    1961 – Hilberg’s book goes to press in under a minor imprint, the Chicago-based publisher, Quadrangle Books
    1961-1963 Arendt covers Eichmann trial for New Yorker and publishes “Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil” in 1963.

    What about publications of Hilberg’s book?

    The German rights to the book were acquired by the German publishing firm, Droemer Knaur, in 1963. Droemer Knaur, however, after dithering over it for two years, decided against publication, due to the work’s documentation of certain episodes of cooperation by Jewish authorities with the executors of the Holocaust — material which the editors said would only play into the hands of the antisemitic right wing in Germany. Hilberg dismissed this fear as “nonsense”.[32] Some two decades were to pass before it finally came out in a German edition in 1982, under the imprint of a Berlin publishing house. (Wiki)

    Hilberg’s work received a hostile reception from Yad Vashem, particularly over his treatment of Jewish resistance to the perpetrators of the Holocaust in the book’s concluding chapter. Hilberg argued that “The reaction pattern of the Jews is characterized by almost complete lack of resistance…[

    Hilberg eventually reached a reconciliation with Yad Vashem, and participated in international conferences organized by the institution in 1977 and 2004.[9][11] In 2012 Yad Vashem held a symposium marking the translation of his book into Hebrew. (Wiki)

    And Hannah Arendt is still hated in Israel and probably (I could not confirm) not translated into Hebrew.

    • Replies: @iffen
  590. Wally says:
    @David Martin

    Here we go:

    Facts on the ‘holocaust’ Fantasy Theme Park, aka: ‘US ‘Holocaust’ Memorial Museum, BTW, this is just one of over 100 ‘holocaust related museums’ in the USA. All receive US taxpayer funding.

    Tax exempt cash taken in by USHMM, aka: ‘Holocau$t’ Theme Park, for fiscal year 2016 which supports huge salaries for Jews only, which most of the remaining money goes to Jews & Zionist organizations:
    $151,826,695.00
    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf
    US taxpayers money to the USHMM in the 2017 budget:
    56,999,500.00
    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf
    There are over 100 ‘holocaust’ oriented ‘museums’ / indoctrination centers throughout the US alone, they all receive US taxpayer funding.

    Au$chwitz World Tour, coming to a city near you.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11517
    “Seriously?
    What other claimed ‘historical fact’ requires such laughable, money making efforts to prove itself?”

    http://www.codoh.com

  591. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Heros

    These agent idiots just keep spewing the same old drivel: CanSpeccy, PeterAUS, utu, and many others.

    Wow, lumped with Utu. Ouch.

    It’s interesting that discussion of posts of the kind that Unz presents here are ultimately dominated by lunatics such as Wally and Heros and L.K. who, as I have noted above, only serve the interests of the virulently ethnocentric Jewish organizations such as the ADL and B’nai Brith, which need a continual swell of anti-Semitism among the ignorant in order to justify the official immunity of Jews and Israel to criticism in America and less formally throughout the US-dominated world.

    Is that Unz’s intention? Or does he talk without sane reflection about everything?

    • Troll: L.K
  592. Wally says:
    @j2

    said:
    ““This is originally from utu: If the Holocaust revisionism is to be taken seriously it must come up with the story for the vanished religious Jews of Poland. But it can’t present a credible story of survival because these Jews indeed died during the WWII while in a custody of German occupying forces.”

    I took care of that rather well at comment #144 of this thread. Please pay attention.

    I noticed that utu dodged it as well, as usual.

    http://www.codoh.com

  593. S says:
    @Otterboy

    Otterboy, I made an entry in this same thread (post #306) that dealt with the US Civil War era prisoner of war camp Andersonville which had in addition to other p.o.w. camps been maintained in the South. These camps, both North and South, had not dissimilar high death rates due to very poor conditions.

    Immediately after the conclusion of the war in the Spring of 1865 the North made an attempt that via a series of trials was to have seen the entirety of the upper echolons of the South’s political and military leadership executed by hanging in regards to accusations of ‘crimes against humanity’ surrounding the southern camps. Andersonville with its associated rail depot was to have been the centerpiece of this effort.

    Those plans fell thru and the north had to make do with trying the hapless solitary Henry Wirz on these charges. The charges were multiple, ie with his personal pistol the random shooting down of prisoners apparently for ‘sport’, the setting of large and ferocious dogs upon the prisoners, the ‘murder’ of great masses of the men by way of ‘poisonous injections’ disguised as vaccinations against disease, and the deliberate planned ‘systematic murder’ of thousands of the men by starvation.

    There were many other accusations appearing in the media of the day about Andersonville and the other southern camps, though Wirz was not charged with them, ie that the South had been manufacturing leather wallets from the human skin of ‘murdered’ Union prisoners at camps such as Andersonville, and too, that ‘cattle cars’ had been used to transport prisoners.

    Wirz after a months long trial would be tried and found guilty of many of these charges and hung in Washington DC in November, 1865.

    Now, in 2018 and for many years past, it has in general been almost universally acknowledged that the charges for which the South’s political and military leadersip were to have been executed, and indeed for which the hapless Wirz was, were wholly untrue…ie there had been no planned mass murder, poisonous injections, gunning down prisoners at random, etc. The accusations had all been untrue and Wirz served as a scapegoat due in part to Union pique in regards to its great war time losses..losses which both ‘sides’, North and South, had experienced.

    I think at the time such accusations about the South’s camps which had appeared during the last year or so of the war were acting as a negative means of social control aimed at the very people from whence the accusations were eminating from, ie the broad Anglo-Saxon US (Union) public, even more specifically targeting the largely Anglo-Saxon Union troops fighting at the front, ie ‘you had better fight hard, very hard, resisting in every possible way and not even think of surrender…lest you too should wind up in one of those places’. A powerful secondary purpose is the demonization of a declared enemy.

    The post in this thread that I previously mentioned (#306) has an excerpt with a link to an Oct, 1870 article appearing in the then highly influential Boston based Atlantic Monthly entitled ‘Our Israelitish Brethren’ which in more modern English translates as ‘Our Jewish Brothers’. The article discusses the relationship between the Anglo-Saxon and Jewish peoples (a relationship I see as historically having been ultimately unhealthy and destructive for both peoples) while also briefly commenting upon Andersonville.

    By the way, my personal view about the US Civil War is that when violence became inevitable in 1861 that the guns, rather than being turned upon each other, should have been turned upon those elites and hangers on North and South whom had been largely corrupted historically due to their heavy involvement with chattel slavery and its trade.

    This would have resulted in a true abolition of slavery in the United States, both of the chattel slavery system of the South and chattel slavery’s monetization, ie wage slavery (‘cheap labor/mass immigration) which had along with the British Empire been adopted by the US North, this division in slavery being a major, though often unspoken, cause of the war. That’s the war (probably a short one) that should have been fought against slavery and one that a non-slave holder such as Robert E Lee could have led with gusto.

    If you have the opportunity to check out the entry mentioned and care to comment I’m sure myself as well as others would be glad to hear what you might have to say regarding the matter. (PS Good luck dealing with your family situation. Family can be difficult.)

    ‘Of the giant wrongs to which they [the Jewish people] have been subjected for the last ten centuries,—the huge Andersonville outrages,—few readers need to be reminded.’

    Atlantic Monthly (October, 1870) – Our Israelitish Brethren

    ‘Who can estimate the reparation which Christendom owes this interesting and unoffending people? How abundant, how untiring, should be our charity in judging the faults of character which our own superstition has created or developed!

    Of the giant wrongs to which they have been subjected for the last ten centuries,—the huge Andersonville outrages,—few readers need to be reminded. In the slaughter of the Jews of Seville, in 1391, thirty-five hundred families were murdered. In 1492, under Ferdinand and Isabella, three hundred thousand heroic Israelites preferred exile to apostasy.

    Many of them found a resting-place only in the grave or in the depths of the sea; for neither Portugal nor Italy nor Mohammedan Morocco would tolerate the presence of a people who would not comply with their superstitions, and who, by their frugality, continence, temperance, and industry, absorbed the wealth of every country in which they lived. Those who remained in the Peninsula suffered baptism, and were obliged to conform to the outward observances of the reigning church.

    Far more enviable was the lot of those who had accepted banishment. The favorite office of the Spanish Inquisition for two centuries was to “question” the sincerity of those two hundred thousand Jewish converts; and the national amusement was to witness the burning of Jewish Rabbis and Jewish maidens. Similar atrocities were committed, as we all know, in England, Germany, and France.’

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1870/10/our-israelitish-brethren/306257/

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    , @Otterboy
  594. Wally says:
    @Liberty Mike

    This is what I have to say:

    Only lies require censorship.

    http://www.codoh.com

  595. j2 says:
    @Wally

    Wally, could you please read what is written in the comment before replying. I wrote explicitly that I do not read Wannsee minutes as referring to extermination of the Jews. I read it as it is written, referring to Jews building roads on their way east and many of them naturally dying and the strongest surviving and they will be the seed of the new rise of Jewish people. That is social Darwinism and that may have been what was done: natural selection.

    • Replies: @Wally
  596. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “Could you please provide citations for each of the figures you use here so that we may evaluate the reliability of the conclusion you arrived at?”

    Sure Anonymous Disclaimer. Scroll from Categories to Holocaust controversy
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/categories-kategoriat/
    and start from the first one
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/lets-take-some-example-conspiracy-theory/
    then go to the next ones in the order.

    The numbers are from American Jewish Congress Yearbooks that you can access from the web. I made only very few known corrections (German and Austrian Jews who emigrated before 1939, Romanian Jewish population), verify them from whatever web-source as my sources to the changes are books in Finnish and not in the web. It does not matter what sources you use: just add up the death toll of extermination camps in Poland and other camps in West or present Poland, the sum is larger than 3 million that is the maximum that could have been in present Poland. Germans transported very few Jews from East to West as the idea was to transport them to the East. The netto is 60,000 transported to present day Poland from the East. This shows to you that the official story is absolutely wrong. (When you realize that, you can just as well find the numbers for the rest from the web and not bother me requesting sources, as I suspect that at the moment you are not interested in the truth, just trolling. But maybe you change when you check the Auschwitz case. You find about the same numbers as I used from any reliable source. Use those you find.)

  597. cassandra says:
    @Wally

    You lie again with another strawman, no one said like the “population’s rations”.

    If you’re going to accuse me of lying, the least you can do is indicate what statement you considered false.

    I heard about rationing first, from a former native German, and second, from “Every Man Dies Alone.” From http://haydncorper.com/index.php/germany-at-war/everyday-life-in-germany-during-the-war/:

    As the war began to go against Germany in the Soviet Union and as Allied bombing began to affect domestic production, a more severe rationing program had to be introduced. The system allowed extra rations for men involved in heavy industry, but supplied only starvation rations for Jews and Poles in the areas occupied by Germany. In April 1942 bread, meat and fat rations all were reduced. This was explained to people at the time by poor harvest, lack of manpower for farming, and the increased need to feed the armed forces and the millions of forced labourers and refugees that had come to Germany.

    So it seems some forced laborers starved, others didn’t.

    You rhetorically asked why slave laborers might be starved; I proposed food shortage as a possible explanation. Your insult is quite unhinged from what I actually said. Please read more carefully in the future.

    I would be interested in the pedigree of your photos. Can you provide links? Thanks.

    • Replies: @j2
  598. David says:

    Maybe a little loony but it seems to me that many of the books Ron uses to support his theses, and often recommends, are extremely hard to find or extremely expensive given their rather large original sales numbers or large numbers of print runs / editions. Is it possible that Jewish organizations buy up and destroy these old books?

    • Replies: @utu
  599. @Wally

    Yeah, I’m not going to repeat myself. I explained why I quoted that and said I’m largely agnostic on these things- because like Unz, I haven’t researched it enough to draw a conclusion! You jumped on that because you have you some kind of spastic neurosis, and you even say this:

    “Why do you want so many people to be dead ? That’s quite insane & very hateful.
    You are truly the “fanatic” here, not me. Revisionists bring good news.”

    Is this what you think whenever there’s any dispute or debate about a death toll with anyone about anything? I know this might be hard for you to believe, but people (with normal thought processes), when arguing such things- high death tolls in an event, whether it be a genocide, a massacre, or something like an accident, a natural disaster etc. are generally not motivated because they get some kind of sadistic gratification out of more people being dead.

    Normal person: “Anyway, I believe the evidence suggests this industrial accident led to a higher death toll than you claim, and-”
    Wally: “Wow, why do you want MORE people to be dead??!?! That’s very insane and hateful! You’re a fanatic!”

    You’ll never be sane.

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    , @Wally
  600. nickels says:
    @Anon

    We don’t need no facist groove thang

  601. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s telling that former Yad Vashem “Holocau$t’ Theme Park director, Yehuda Bauer, said:

    “The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at.

    source: Canadian Jewish News, 30 January 1992.

    http://www.codoh.com

  602. Wally says:
    @j2

    Yes you said that about Wannsee, but then went on & attempted to support some of the false claims about it. Bizarre.

    Please read what you post.

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  603. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    How silly, childish, & just plain desperate.

    It all revolves around the simple fact that you and those like you cannot provide proof for what you claim.

    You then become frustrated, run around in circles with your tail between your legs, and project your frustration on the messengers.
    The problem is the thoroughly debunked religion you faithfully believe in.

    Your attempt to obfuscate & deflect is irrational and just exposes your rabid PC fanaticism.

    Anyway, your posts are here for everyone too see. You lost.

    Cheers.

    • Troll: CanSpeccy
  604. @Anon

    I am aware of the differences between the fascisms, and that the racialist Nazi version was distinctly different and considerably worse. I understand fascism neither as an epithet nor as an ideology attractive overall or plausible in the present. It was peculiar to time and place. Its main intellectual precursor Sorel, who inspired both the fascists and the Bolsheviks (whom Sorel also praised), glorified irrationality and violence. Both totalitarianisms were also the products of the brutalization of sustained trench warfare, with returning soldiers in defeated or failed states attracted to ideologies of direct action.

    Mussolini’s Doctrine of Fascism pronounces itself against peace, socialism, democracy, and liberalism (in its broad meaning), and lauds imperialism. Moreover,

    Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity. It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual.…The Fascist conception of the State is all embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism, is totalitarian, and the Fascist State- a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values – interprets, develops, and potentates the whole life of a people.

    It expects total subordination to a personalistic leader who mystically embodies the nation. To read the former anarchosyndicalist Michels as he grovels to Mussolini is a disgusting experience: Il Duce is confident, trusted, superior, a genius, blah, blah, blah, “When Mussolini speaks, he translates in a naked and brilliant form the aims of the multitude.” Il Duce loves danger and violent struggle, etc., etc.

    It’s difficult for people to understand fascism because as children of the Enlightenment they expect reasons. Fascism eschews intellectual doctrine. It is action, speed, violence. It is avowedly irrational. It is postmodernism in power.

    Fascism is implausible in its own right, and also because the vast majority of people do not want to abandon peace, democracy, social protections, and (broad) liberalism; and do not want to subordinate themselves and their children’s destinies to an unaccountable personalist leader who considers the individual as nothing and the state the Leader commands as everything.

    I agree that fraudulent Wall Street, Deep State, and Weekly Standard universalisms are reprehensible. There is no contradiction, however, between a soft obligation of charity to all humans, and stronger and more enforceable obligations to fellow citizens in a country, because of common benefit from organized institutions of reciprocity necessarily available only within a bounded set of people. There can be a liberal (broad sense) nationalism. The US from 1924 to 1965 was an instance.

    • Replies: @Anon
  605. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Not only is it a fallacy, it’s a pernicious fallacy.”
    — well. How would you interpret this violation of the First Amendment in the US if not the show of the pernicious Jewish Power? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/20/texas-town-makes-hurricane-harvey-aid-applicants-pledge-not-to-boycott-israel/?utm_term=.23dfd6701736

    “Nearly two months after Hurricane Harvey socked the Texas coastline, residents are still in the early stages of the costly and complicated cleanup process.
    The city of Dickinson, Tex., located about 30 miles southeast of Houston, recently posted applications online for relief grants “from the funds that were generously donated to the Dickinson Harvey Relief Fund,” the city’s website says. The application, however, includes a provision requiring applicants to promise not to boycott Israel.
    Section 11 of the four page document is titled, “Verification not to Boycott Israel.”
    The text reads: “By executing this Agreement below, the Applicant verifies that the Applicant: (1) does not boycott Israel; and (2) will not boycott Israel during the term of this Agreement.”

  606. Wally says:
    @Sam

    LENGHTY, select ‘more’ if necessary.
    said:
    “but what about Treblinka and Sobibor and the Minsk Ghetto?”As you pointed out, deniers have a hard time dismissing those things…but the average person is usually not aware enough to bring them up.
    You are quite uninformed, deliberately so I suggest. Treblinka, Sobibor & the Minsk ghetto claims are well covered by Revisionist research.

    [MORE]

    Sobibor:
    see: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=sobibor
    and:

    It’s claimed that 250,000 Jew remains are at Sobibor, yet they do not exist.
    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    Treblinka:
    see: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=treblinka
    and:

    It’s claimed that Treblnka holds 900,000 Jew remains, but they do not exist.
    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains can be shown

    and:
    Reinhardt camps
    see: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=reinhardt+camps

    see
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    Minsk ghetto:
    see: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=minsk+ghetto

    So go ahead and present your alleged proof for the claims about those sites and learn. I suspect you too are in over your head, we do await you.
    http://www.codoh.com

  607. @S

    It would appear that what the sanctimonious progressive (redundant, I know) administrators, butchers, conductors, executioners, propagandists, and troubadors of the War of Northern Aggression planned to do was a dress rehearsal for Nuremburg.

    Just as Bradley, Eisenhower, Patton, Roosevelt et al should have been hung for their war crimes, so too the likes of Custer, Grant, Lincoln, Sheridan, and Sherman.

    • Replies: @S
  608. utu says:
    @David

    Is it possible that Jewish organizations buy up and destroy these old books?

    Very reasonable suspicion. Also stealing form libraries.

  609. Wally says:
    @Sam

    Please be specific as to the exact ‘holocaust’ narrative points that you think Hoggan got wrong.

    Do tell. We await. No dodging.

    http://www.codoh.con

  610. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Here is more on the use of a poisonous gas for murdering the “undesirables:” https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/soc.culture.jewish/nBYdz5icdLA/qVEDk_NODoQJ
    “The mobile gassing truck was invented and tested by Isay Davidovich Berg, head of the NKVD Economics Division in the Moscow region. In 1937, a second highpoint in the Great Purge, prisoners were sentenced to death in conveyor-belt fashion, packed into trucks, taken to the places of execution, shot in the back of the neck, and buried.
    In the economic sense, Isay Berg found this method of liquidation inefficient, time-consuming and cost-intensive. He, therefore, in 1937 designed the mobile asphyxiation chamber, the gassing truck (Russian: dushegubka, p. 297). The doomed were loaded into a tightly sealed, completely airtight Russian Ford; during the drive the deadly exhaust from a gasoline engine was directed into the section containing those sentenced to death. Upon reaching the mass gravesite, the truck dumped the corpses into the burial ditch.”

    Some other interesting quotes, that probably make this book unpublishable in America:

    “On the basis of document analysis, Solzhenitsyn states that Lenin had three reasons for elevating young secular, revolutionary-minded Jews to the State’s elite, in effect replacing the Tsarist bureaucracy. First, because of the deadly hate the young Jews had for Russian traditions, religious rites, historical models, hate for everything Russian and Russia itself.
    Second, their willingness to cross the last taboo borders in morality.
    And third, their readiness to physically liquidate the enemy.”

    “Solzhenitsyn lists the names of about fifty mass murderers, desk criminals, and murderers of prisoners. (p. 300f.) Their first names betray the ethnic origin of these monsters. Moise Framing, Mordichai Chorus, Josef Khodorovsky, Isaak Solz, Naum Zorkin, Moise Kalmanovich, Samuel Agurski, Lazar Aronstam, Israel Weizer, Aron Weinstein, Isaak Grindberg, Sholom Dvoylazki, Max Daitsh, Yesif Dreiser, Samuel Saks, Jona Jakir, Moise Kharitonov, Frid Markus, Solomon Kruglikov, Israel Razgon, Benjamin Sverdlov, Leo Kritzman…”

    more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Anon
  611. iffen says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Is that Unz’s intention?

    If facilitating and publicizing writings by anti-Semitic loons does, in fact, “serve the interests of the virulently ethnocentric Jewish organizations,” what other conclusion is logically possible?

  612. Heros says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “only serve the interests of the virulently ethnocentric Jewish organizations”

    Here is the problem with that line of argument: There are certain historical truths about jews that jews in general don’t like seeing being discussed in public.

    The Talmud is one great example, where for centuries it was hidden from the goyim, and even today the vast majority of jews would try to pretend that it doesn’t exist. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is another artifact that reveals the jew’s true nature, that they despise talking about. The Holohoax is another example of something that jews pretend is beyond discussion and merely “fact”.

    This is why jews and their mind controlled puppets always portray “Nazi Anti-Semite Racists” as idiot red-neck hillbillies. The last thing they want is intelligent goyim poking around about their closet full of centuries of despicable behaviour.

    Now take that even further. ADL and B’nai Brith especially don’t want people discussing jew pedophilia and child blood letting. After all, their core purpose is to cover up this type of jew depravity, they certainly don’t want it aired in public.

    To illustrate what jews and their “charitable” organizations don’t want goyim talking about, here is just one instance of many of jew perverts praying on the rest of humanity:

    How A Respected Jewish Educator Preyed On Children For A Half-Century

    [MORE]

    https://forward.com/news/national/409067/how-a-respected-jewish-educator-preyed-on-children-for-a-half-century/

    Here is an eye opening archived Twitter feed titled

    Gods Chosen Child Molesters

    https://archive.is/mKYaY

    The author goes through 75 cases of jew pedophilia. Many of the worst offenders are Rabbis. It is worth looking at just because it proves that no, people who intelligently debate jew behaviour are not just Mossad and Hasbara agents

    One important reason the I bring this up is because there was a reason all of Europe was pissed off at all jews, be they communists, zionists or capitalists. Throughout “occupied” Europe, conservative Christian governments turned over subversive jews and freemasons to the Germans. They did this willingly because these subversives were trying to spread violent revolutions and therefore deserved it.

    Here is an interesting thread about the Spanish “Civil War”, with pictures of the depravity and murder that these jewish-masonic communists committed. It is no wonder why jews were treated roughly during the war after people like Trotsky, Bela Kuhn and all the other communist crypto-jews had murdered millions.

    “Communist jews Torture and Massacre Priests, Nuns, and Choir Boys in Marxist Upheavals in Spain – Thread”

    https://twitter.com/_Fight0rDie4_/status/1011438418981769223

  613. @Unstremian

    To be sure, Wally is rather devoted to the matter, but, you do yourself no favors by exclaiming that you draw no conclusions because you have not researched it. Instead, the better, more honest approach would be, “nobody has presented me evidence sufficient to carry the proposition that the Holocaust narrative is true.”

    Remember, the burden is on the proponent of the proposition. It is not Wally’s burden to prove that the Holocaust did not happen as the censors and proponents of criminalization must prove that it did.

    Any decent, honest person must accept that those who seek to criminalize dissenting points of view have an even greater burden of proof to carry the day.

    • Replies: @Wade
  614. Them Guys says:
    @T. Weed

    So most Jews will claim that…Yes Jews Lied 165-Times in past claims of a “Six-Million” dead Jews fantasy fable claim….But, But, But, when Jews again made the exact same claims about “Six-Million” Dead Jews, in, 1940’s & WW II events…..That time…Jews were being 100% honest and spoke absolute Truth!!!!!!!!

    And Anybody who Dares to question or disagree with it, is a, Vile Nazi SS Antisemite and Jew Hater Racist, who want’s to Kill Six-Million More Jews!!!…OyVey!

    Correction: Anybody who does Not question 99+% of every fuckin thing or impossible to have happened, False Claim made by every Jew from, early 1800’s era, to Date in 2018, is either a totally brainwashed and full of Whitey-Guilt idiot, or, A brainwashed believer of Jewish-Worship of somehow Jews being, Always, and in Every way, shape and form totally innocent of ever doing wrongs, and even when proof shows of such wrongs done by Jews…Then too, Jews always deserve to never need atone for such wrongs, based only on, their being Jewish.

    Personally, I shall stick with that Biblical Verse which states that:..”For They (Jews) Are the Adversaries of, God, and All of Mankind (all Non Jew gentiles).” That verse well describes, and well Warns all of Mankind the world over about the most Nefarious doer’s of every possible, evil, wrong, bad, thing a person can conceive of, and worse yet, even warns gentiles to beware of a small tribe capable of doing such prior listed evils etc. That nobody else But a Jew could ever conceive of doing!

    PS; for those really deeply duped fools, compare that word of, “Adversary” of God, to…Jewry claims as a “(Self)-Chosen”! Somebody’s lying, and it ain’t Gods words lying, eh. Adversary= Enemy’s of God. And Enemy’s of all of Mankind also. And it isn’t God nor, Mankind who made them enemy’s. Which leaves just One possible entity to blame….the Jews.

  615. iffen says:
    @utu

    So she cited Hilberg prominently and several times, but just not enough times to please you and Hilberg.

    I haven’t read anything by Hilberg, but I might at some point.

    Eichmann is my only reading of Arendt. I was curious as to why she was, as you put it “disliked by Zionists…” It is clear enough from my reading of the book why extremely partisan Zionists would not like it and not like her for writing it.

    • Replies: @utu
  616. annamaria says:
    @Paw

    Actually, the author uncovers the modern-day Jewish Bolsheviks, the most murderous and treacherous kind of tribalists: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

    “Jews and Bolshevism:” http://heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html
    “On 4 April 1919 the Jewish Chronicle: “There is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself, in the fact that so many Jews are Bolshevists, in the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism at many points are consonant with the finest ideals of Judaism.”
    (Perhaps this explains why the Red Army uses a Jewish star as its symbol?)
    Probably the best-known exposé of the Jewish role in the Bolshevik coup d’état was by Sir Winston Churchill, writing in the Illustrated Sunday Herald of 8 February 1920. Churchill wrote “With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and the driving power comes from Jewish leaders.”

    When the Bolsheviks overthrew the short-lived democratic government in Moscow and St. Petersburg in October 1917, it was a virtual Jewish coup d’état. The most prominent Jewish Commissar was Trotsky, real name Bronstein. He had been married by a rabbi in 1900, and whilst in exile in New York he had worked for Novy Mir, described in the Church Times (23 January 1925) as a “Yiddish newspaper.”
    The various reporters and diplomats who were there at the time of the “Revolution” have given evidence as to its Jewish nature.
    The widow of the Guardian’s correspondent Mrs. Ariadna Tyrkova-Williams wrote: “In the Soviet Republic all the committees and commissaries were filled with Jews.”

  617. peterAUS says:
    @CanSpeccy

    …ultimately dominated by lunatics….

    Well, that’s how the world of “blabbing” works. The most, ahm, “passionate” will always out-talk rational types. Hehe….ever got into heated argument with a woman?
    My method: I recognize them and put on ignore/skip over their posts.
    It’s like in a pub; intoxicated guys tend to yell and can’t stop talking; you move away and filter them out.
    This site does have several regular good posters and every now and then anonymous nugget comes in. For those I’ve found it’s worth reading some authors and (some) comments.

    And….there is another, more serious reason having those ….passionate….overwhelming a forum/chat room/website.
    Reminds us of human nature. Of people around us in “real”. Like, just in my neighborhood I am positive there are a couple of those. A prudent person takes that into account in daily living and especially in crisis. Enough said.

    Speaking of crisis, another element comes up.
    Monitoring sites like this TPTB (and some organizations…….) keep a pulse on the mood of populace. And, last but not least, take those characters under, ahm, interest. Just in case.

    All good.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  618. Otterboy says:
    @S

    @S
    I’m not sure how to reply to you. My knowledge of the American civil war is extremely basic

    Regarding the article in the Atlantic, I don’t believe many will deny that the Jews have definitely suffered greatly through the centuries. But haven’t so many different groups of people? I don’t see any reason why they should take top spot in the primacy of human suffering which is something that they continually push for, with the alleged holocaust being the prime example

    Just look at the numbers of deaths in ww2. Chinese, Russian, Japanese, German, Polish, other Europeans… Yet when I was speaking with the 15 year old daughter of a friend of mine in London a few weeks ago, she told me her favourite subject was history. She said she was studying the second world war. When I tried to discuss this subject with her all she had learned about was the holocaust and Ann Frank’s diary

    They’ve definitely captured the majority of the narrative from that period and this really needs to be reversed in my opinion

    • Replies: @S
    , @Wally
  619. utu says:
    @iffen

    She reviews the manuscript of Hilberg book and derails prospects of the book being published by a reputable publisher and then extensively uses it in her New Yorker articles and her book. What else do you need?

    Are you in love with Arendt? Did you also masturbate thinking of Ann Frank?

    • Replies: @iffen
  620. Hegwood says:

    The following is a brief description of the Holocaust. It is just the basics of the Holocaust story. It is not Holocaust denial; it is not revisionism; it is just the story in brief.
    But, frankly, please do not think I am ignorant enough to believe it happened!

    What Is the Holocaust?
    The Holocaust is the allegation that during World War II the National Socialist government of Germany tried to kill everyone who they identified as a Jew. It is further claimed that this attempted genocide of Jews resulted in the death of 6,000,000 of their number.
    When, where, and how did this happen? When, where, and how were 6,000,000 people murdered? This seems to be the place to start in understanding the Holocaust yet I was unable to find a clear tabulation of such information from Holocaust education organizations such as the United States Holocaust Memorial and Museum (USHMM) or Israel’s Yad Vashem. The only such list that I am aware of is from Raul Hilberg’s The Destruction of the European Jews. Table B-1, page 1219, of the 1985 edition of that work, is a summary of Holocaust deaths by camp or specific action. Five major groupings account for well over ninety percent of the victims. These categories are the Action Reinhardt killing centers, Einsatzgruppen executions, Auschwitz gas chambers, general deprivation in ghettos, and the Chelmno and Majdanek camps in Poland. I’ve added an “all other” to account for smaller numbers. The goupings are:
    Action Reinhardt (Treblinka, Belsec, Sobibor camps) – 1,500,000 gassing victims
    Einsatzgruppen, executions in towns and villages – 1,300,000 firing squad victims
    Auschwitz/ Birkenau – 1,000,000 mostly gassing victims
    Ghettorization&Occupation – 800,000 general deprivation victims
    Kulmhof/Chelmno and Lublin/Majdanek – 200,000 primarily gassing victims
    All other including the well known camps in Germany – 300,000 of various causes
    Total 5,100,000
    The above total is short of the 6,000,000 but that doesn’t detract from the magnitude of the alledged crime.

    Further, the foregoing numbers should not be subjected to scrutiny for accuracy. The numbers are just estimates. Despite claims that the Holocaust is well documented the opposite is true. There are very few holocaust related documents and most of those are subject to alternate interpretations. None of the executions whether by Einsatzgruppen, in gas chambers, or in the ghettos are clearly enumerated. There are no lists of victims. There is no count of the dead, not even a record of the number of times executions were carried out. The only documented deaths are from disease or other natural causes plus a few executions for disciplinary reasons.
    This presentation is purposefully brief only the minimum information that is necessary to answer the questions of “when, where, and how” is presented.

    [MORE]

    Action Reinhardt Camps
    Action Reinhardt with 1,500,000 victims is the largest of Hilberg’s categories. These victims were the murdered in the death camps of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor. Hilberg puts the respective deaths at 750,000, 550,000, and 200,000. Combined this is the most deadly Holocaust action. These three camps were located in what is today eastern Poland, not far from the current borders with Belarus and Ukraine. They began operation in March 1942 and were closed in the fall of 1943. These were pure extermination camps. Only prisoners needed to help run the camps were allowed to live. All others were executed immediately upon arrival. What is known about the operation of these camps is largely based on the reports of two Jews who claimed to be members of the Jewish forced laborers at Treblinka -Yankel Wiernik and Chil Rajchman.
    In brief the operation was: Jews arrived in trains of twenty or more carloads, disembarked and were stripped of all possessions. The men were then separated from the women and children. Both groups would be told to remove all clothes to take a shower. Instead they were then forced into a building where they were killed by a poisonous gas. Wiernik said it was diesel engine exhaust gas but Rajchman wasn’t sure. They were all dead within minutes and initially they were buried in large mass graves. In order to eliminate all evidence of this massive crime the later victims were cremated and the previously buried corpses were exhumed and also cremated. Since there were no crematory facilities at any of the Action Reinhardt camps open air cremation was used. The following is part of Rajchman’s description of the cremations:
    “He [the “cremation expert”] had laid out more than thirty meters of railway gauge. Right on top of the ground a pair of concrete foundations were cast, both with a height of approximately 50 centimeters. … On top of the foundations six railway rails were placed, that was all. The expert ordered us to put women, particularly fat women, on the first layer on the roast, face down. The second layer could consist of whatever was brought – men, women or children – and so on, layer upon layer like a pyramid, up to a height of two meter.”
    “… Then the “expert” ordered us to lay dry branches under the roast and to light them. Within a few minutes the fire would take so it was difficult to approach the crematorium from as far as fifty meters away.”

    Wiernik provides a similar description of the cremation. His words were “The workers piled the corpses on the grate and set them on fire.” and “It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires.” The cremations resulted in only ashes leaving no recognizable human remains as evidence of the massive crime.
    According to Holocaust historians, Belzec and Sobibor were operated the same way. There are very limited eye witness accounts of the operation of these camps. Apparently, the small number and lack of consistency in these accounts leads Holocaust scholars to the conclusion they were operated in the same manner as Treblinka. The United States Holocaust Museum and Memorial (USHMM) descriptions of operation of all three camps are brief but are nearly identical.

    Einsatzgruppen
    The next largest category is the execution by firing squad – 1,300,000 victims. After Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941 special squads called Einsatzgruppen -Operation Groups- rounded up Jews in towns and cities of Eastern Europe, marched them to the outskirts of town executed them and buried them in mass graves. Executions were carried out in groups of various sizes from a few individuals to groups of dozens, hundreds , or even thousands.
    The best known execution of this type occurred at Babi Yar, a ravine on the outskirts of Kiev, Ukraine, where 33,000 of the city’s Jewish residents were executed and buried.
    However, there are no mass graves to be examined.
    In June 1942 Himmler ordered all evidence of the Einsatzgruppen executions destroyed. It is claimed that all bodies were exhumed and burned in a manner similar to the Treblinka cremations leaving absolutely no physical evidence that these million plus murder victims ever existed, not even in Babi Yar whose location is exactly known has any evidence of these murders been discovered.

    Auschwitz/Birkenau
    Auschwitz, located in what is now southern Poland, was the largest of the German concentration camps. It actually consisted of three camps – Auschwitz I, Auschwitz II (Birkenau), and Auschwitz III (Monowitz). Auschwitz II (Birkenau) was by far the largest of the three. It had the barracks that housed the majority of the inmates and also the four large crematoria/gas chambers.
    Auschwitz is almost synonymous with the Holocaust. However, Hilberg found it was only the third most deadly of the major groupings. Here approximately 1,000,000 Jews were murdered in gas chambers between September 1941 and November 1944.
    Despite claims of efficient mass murder methods, the so-called “machinery of death” was rather crude. Jews to be gassed were herded into rooms actually built as morgues – “leichenkellar” in German. These rooms had no plumbing thru which the poison gas was introduced. Specifically, they did not have the shower heads, fake or otherwise, often mentioned by Holocaust survivors. Instead, Zyclon B pellets were poured into the packed rooms through holes in the roofs or through windows. Hydrogen cyanide released from the pellets killed all occupants within minutes. Sondercommando workers entered the chambers immediately and carried the bodies to the crematoria located in the same building.
    As previously noted there are absolutely no records of the exterminations at Auschwitz. Those deemed useful for labor were selected for registration in the camp and their lives and activities are well documented. All others were sent to the gas chambers. There is no indication that they were even counted. There is not even a record of how often the makeshift chambers were used.

    Ghettorization & Occupation
    Hilberg attributes 800,000 holocaust deaths to general deprivation primarily in ghettos established for Jews in all larger cities in Eastern Europe. Also, certain Jews from Germany proper were deported to Theresienstadt, a ghetto in the what is now the Czech Republic.
    Ghettos existed pretty much from the beginning of German occupation until their retreat. Deaths resulted from disease caused by crowded conditions and general deprivation.

    Kulmhof/Chelmno and Lublin/Majdanek
    These two camps were similar to the Action Reinhardt camps. Majdanek comes up often the story but I know little about it. The same is true for the less often mentioned Chelmo. Since Hilberg claims 200,000 were killed in them but the USHMM has a death total of 600,000 there are obviously serious unanswered questions about them and there is not space in this summary to go into these questions.

    All Others
    The concentration camps in Germany proper are in the catch-all category of “All Other”. Total Jewish deaths in these camps were less than 150,000 . The majority of whom died of typhus in the last three months of the war as conditions throughout Germany and particularly these camps deteriorated due to Allied bombing. These were the camps liberated by the Western Allied forces in April and May 1945. The horrible conditions were filmed and used extensively in anti-German propaganda.
    Again, there were a number of these camps but the limitations of this brief description does not permit further description.

    Story or History?
    This story as told cannot be accepted as history. Even at this overview level there are alleged events that cannot be rationally explained. Further, they are integral parts of the story not just trivial discrepancies nor simple misstatements. If these things happened then they can only be described as paranormal or mystical events. Accordingly the Holocaust is only possible if one’s world view includes magical or miraculous happenings.
    The first event that I came across that clearly falls in this category is the burning of victims at Treblinka. The events described by eyewitnesses are not possible. They are totally inconsistent with natural law. Animal carcasses including human corpses will not burn as described.
    Another such event is the ability of Sondercommand workers to enter hydrogen cyanide filled chambers in Auschwitz to remove the bodies of Holocaust victims without themselves succumbing to the gas.
    Yet another is the complete disappearance victims of the Einsatzgruppen shootings. The mass graves of these alleged victims just don’t exist and the excuse for their absence relies on the same impossible open air cremation tale that Wienik came up with for Treblinka.
    These are just a few of the miraculous events encountered in the holocaust story.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  621. Florin says:
    @Colin Wright

    The pogroms indeed may have been highly exaggerated:

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/08/revisiting-the-19th-century-russian-pogroms-part-1-russias-jewish-question/

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/11/myth-and-the-russian-pogroms-part-2-inventing-atrocities/

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/13/myth-and-the-russian-pogroms-part-3-the-jewish-role/

    More broadly this, and the myth of Exodus (perhaps an inversion of the Hyksos’ expulsion from Egypt as a hostile ruling elite) and the Kabbalistically sacred 6 million figure go to a deep Jewish tendency to make themselves the perpetual innocent sacred Victim.

    Suggesting Israelis are brutal and racist toward Palestinians is true, but ‘anti-Semitic’ because it paints Jews as other-than blameless victims. After all, when your god advises genocide to claim a new land full of people, how can one say this is not a wicked wct unless the Jews are simply to be deemed as incapable of bad acts? israel is always ‘responding to’ Hamas rockets. Notably ‘Hamas rockets’ are never themselves a ‘response’ to Israeli attacks.

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2009/08/01/the-culture-of-deceit/

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2009/08/18/the-culture-of-deceit-part-ii/

    • Replies: @kikl
    , @Colin Wright
  622. MarkinPNW says:
    @Wally

    I’ve known my friend for over 20 years, and she is very lucid and intelligent, and certainly not “senile”. The story she tells in the video is one I have heard many times both in private conversations and in many group settings. She is not a jew, but simply a Russian who was forced into slavery by a conquering army, same as has happened throughout history, and especially to Russians, (Mongolians, Taters, Turks, Germans, all had their turn raiding Russia for slaves; there is even a popular theory that the word slave is derived from slav due to the historical frequency of slave raids into slav territory). Actually, her story could refute much of the standard “holocaust” narrative; she was not a jew, but an able-bodied teenager seen as a good candidate for a labor camp, and she has never reported seeing any attempts of mass murder or gassing in any of the camps she might have been in.

    Oh, and your ad-hominem attack on my friend just destroyed your credibility.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @EugeneGur
  623. Them Guys says:
    @Zumbuddi

    Some website guy tallied up every school, office worker, factory worker, etc. shooter that ever happened within the United States of America, ever since the famous Columbine High School event occurred. And the final results were, IIRC, something around, 75% or more of all shooter’s aka Bad Guy perps, were……..Wait for it!……Were Jewish Perps.

    Also of note is that, in every instance where such a shooting happened, we saw the typical MSM Instantaneous Frenzy of every known TV news channel doing an immediate, “Breaking News ALERT!” story on said shootings. And once it began, it continued 24/7 for days on end…Until…All of a sudden, when a few Alternate News Websites started to also report the facts that, The shooter was also, Jewish!….Such as that “Batman Joker” movie shooter guy, and that perp shooter guy who shot US Rep Gabby Giffords. And several more I do not now recall.

    That is the Precise moment in time when, every TV News show Halted all reporting, and halted every possible mention of whichever particular shooting event being reported on. And every TV News show also, refused to mention any facts about the shooter perp being a Jew perp.

    Only after a week or usually longer, and after many, many websites broadcasted this critical Fact of the shooter perp being Jewish, did a couple mentions get made by Any TV news shows. And those few times mention was made, it revolved around stuff like, how that Gabby Giffords shooter perp was a Summer session Yeshiva school camp Aide to jewish teens or kids, during the summer months such yeshiva school camps for jewish kids are held. Only by further research or prior knowledge would a person realize that, to be an aide in such yeshiva camp schools, one must be Jewish to even apply for the job. For such yeshiva camps basically exist to teach Jewish youths how to grow up and become a jewier Jew. Something no goyim gentiles would be very capable of teaching or “aideing” with.

    Bottom like is, Most such crazed lunatic mass killer shooter perps, have been, Jewish. And No TV MSM News desires to inform of this fact. They rather fully bury entire Breaking alert news story and end it totally before ever admitting the shooter is Jewish!

    Espically so with that, US Rep Goffords incident, which you can bet on that, every MSM TV News show had huge plans to exploit it as….”Whitey Seperatist, Racist, Antisemite Hater of Jews, who was a made member of a dozen White Seperatist, Neo-Nazi-Antisemitic Hate Group Org.s” blah, blah, blah…Type 24/7 “News” planned to last for an eternity of air time. Due to Rep. Giffords being Jewish herself….and all such tv news hyper plans went up in smoke, the very moment they became aware of shooter perp also being, Jewish. Curses! Foiled Again by astute internet reporters/observers!

    • Replies: @redmudhooch
  624. There are two Jewish “contributions” to the modern world that we know for certain are true. We would never have had Communism without them, and no nuclear weapon could have been created in time for WWII without their contribution. All of the major players in the US Atom Bomb project were Jewish scientists, as was the case with the Soviet nuclear program, so the Jews were directly responsible for the obliteration of the large civilian populations at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    The sixth chapter of Braudel’s The Mediterranean… contains a long account of the many cities in the late Middle Ages from which the Jews were expelled when their currencies and banks collapsed. Over and over through history the Jews have been murdered in or expelled from one nation after another when the usury bubbles they engineered collapsed. The odds are that when America crashes, which it most certainly will do before too long, the Jews will again be blamed, and this time by a people capable of considerable violence. Are the odds not very high that the American toll will outpace the German one?

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  625. kikl says:
    @Florin

    “More broadly this, and the myth of Exodus (perhaps an inversion of the Hyksos’ expulsion from Egypt as a hostile ruling elite) and the Kabbalistically sacred 6 million figure go to a deep Jewish tendency to make themselves the perpetual innocent sacred Victim.”

    True, the exodus never happened.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

    There is another Nation that is the supposed “perpetual innocent sacred victim”. This nation is called “Poland”. Poland is – according to Polish interpretation – the eternal victim. Thus, the Jewish and Polish Nations have one peculiar concept in common.

    Therefore, it is no coincidence that Poland has passed holocaust denial laws outlawing the suggestion of Polish involvement in the holocaust:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/world/europe/poland-israel-holocaust.html

    Isn’t it ironic that Israel furiously objected to this law because it restricts Jewish Freedom of Speech.

    The Jewish hypocrisy is mind boggling. On the Richter magnitude scale for hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance ranging from 1 to about 9, equivalent to total destruction, the Jewish Level of hypocrisy is off the scale! It is at least 20, but so far, no one has been able to measure it!

  626. Anonymous [AKA "Al Dawayima"] says:

    The Zionazi fifth column screeches at you, The holocaust is real. How DARE you deny it!!!1! point, sputter, point, sputter.

    The real holocaust is Israel’s mass torture, murder, and extermination of the captive population in its 2,400 square mile concentration camp.

    http://docstore.ohchr.org/SelfServices/FilesHandler.ashx?enc=6QkG1d%2fPPRiCAqhKb7yhsmEKqNhdzbzr4kqou1ZPE79BvBJe97SSM1KP2v4ng3Dhx74ohsby7x4AlEgvGhwtvav7rPvZmtwpwObldkyK%2bM9cNY7svWLlYmp6PB4chW8O

    http://www.treatybodywebcast.org/cat-57th-session-israel/

    Israel is an atavistic Bronze-Age wasteland with a state-imposed religion of genocide. All Israeli citizens are indoctrinated to be sadistic psychopaths. The state is already implicated in crimes against humanity, legally defined as what Nazis do, and it’s going to self-immolate the same way, in a world war. Israel will use biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons to destroy everyone who isn’t them, including us.

  627. Wally says:
    @Unstremian

    Once again, ‘show us the proof’.
    You cannot. You and your bizarre & impossible story is hereby debunked.

    LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

  628. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    I remind you that you been challenged to produce proof of your blessed ‘holocaust’ narrative.
    You & those like you obviously cannot Otherwise you would. Basic stuff.

    I remind you of the topic of the thread that you are posting numerous and very juvenile comments to. Obviously you’re ‘putting no one on ignore’. LOL

    It’s just that you have been badly beaten, your religious fantasy does not hold up to scientific & rational scrutiny, you are dumbfounded, frustrated, seizing up with cognitive dissonance, and laughably you resort to pretending you are in a pub.

    Your surrender is accepted.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  629. Wally says:
    @MarkinPNW

    So how much was she paid?

    She has refuted herself. Her story makes no sense.

    And you’re the one who trotted her out here, not me. Why?

    So forget her. Since you are a True Believer, yes?
    Then for starters, please show us the immense human remains that are claimed to be in known locations.
    Please tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ worked.

    Please try to refute any of the information I have posted here which savages the absurd ‘holocaust’ narrative. We await.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
  630. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Mr. Karlin,

    I understand your reluctance to discuss the Holocaust in too much detail, since you now live in Russia.

    I commend you and admire your bravery for nevertheless featuring and discussing Mr. Unz’s article and research on your blog: “Holocaust Exegesis” https://www.unz.com/akarlin/holocaust/ and “The Holocaust in the USSR” https://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-holocaust-in-the-ussr/

    I had replied to your “Holocaust Exegesis” post here: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486655

    Are you familiar with Ze[e]v (Vladimir) W[/V]agner, who says that the Jewish population in Russia is substantially larger than is reported by official/government sources?

    At one point, a delegation from the U.N Human Rights Commission visited Moscow to assess the situation of Jews trapped behind the Iron Curtain. Conveniently, Zev was placed in a mental institution by Russian authorities for the duration of their visit.
    […]
    Eventually, Zev expanded the scope of his work beyond Moscow. At the Rebbe’s behest, he printed editions of Tanya, the seminal book of Chabad philosophy, in many cities throughout the former Soviet Union. Among many publications, he published the Russian Jewish Encyclopedia.

    https://www.chabad.org/news/article_cdo/aid/2742510/jewish/Irina-Vagner-63-Paragon-of-Faith-and-Maternal-Concern.htm Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180829202638/https://www.chabad.org/news/article_cdo/aid/2742510/jewish/Irina-Vagner-63-Paragon-of-Faith-and-Maternal-Concern.htm

  631. Skeptikal says:

    I believe the word and concept of the Holocaust were introduced to Americans via TV shows in the 1970s.
    There was the miniseries, more like a maxi-series, actually:
    Holocaust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_(miniseries).

    And before that there was a TV show, docudrama, about musicians who formed a string orchestra in Auschwitz.
    I can’t recall the name, but I am quite sure that Streep was also in that. I think it was the first time I heard the word “Holocaust,” or perhaps reviews of theshow used the word.

    My recollection is that this word ws inserted into the English language in the early seventies.

    I do think that there was a curtain drawn over much that occurred in WW2, and that makes it difficult to distinguish between events the record of which had been truly suppressed and those that actually constituted not “reclaimed” memories but newly made up memories.

    Lenni Brenner’s book is a very good object lesson of how unpleasant historical events and documents that challenge a given narrative can be suppressed, or actively ignored by historians. And the historical record is shown to be full of big holes. Holes that can be filled iwth other narratives and tales and memes.

    The conduct of the Jews in establishing their Jewish State should act as a red flag toward anything they say about their own history. Excavating this history cannot be left to Jews; controlling the historical narrative via the criminalizatoin of saying certain t hings or using certain phrases or even being curious about the past cannot be left up to the Jews to decide. Just like, It cannot be left to the descendants of white colonizers to decide on waht can be written about Native American history.
    No brainer there!!

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  632. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    Another inconvenient fact:

    http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DT/gcturen.html
    U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum displays standard German air-raid shelter door, describing it as the door to a gas chamber at Majdanek
    see text.
    images:

    [MORE]

    Only liars try such fakery.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Heros
  633. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @New Dealer

    Mussolini’s Doctrine of Fascism pronounces itself against peace, socialism, democracy, and liberalism (in its broad meaning), and lauds imperialism.

    Mussolini’s pro-imperialism wasn’t unique to fascism. If anything, he was conforming to world standards. After all, the two biggest imperialist powers were democratic UK and France. And Japan was compelled to join the imperialist game under pressure from US and UK that forced it open.

    So, imperialism isn’t crucial to fascism. Mussolini wanted Italy to be a great power and felt it needed an empire because all the great powers were either made by imperialism(US and USSR) or possessed great overseas empires, esp UK and France.

    Mussolini’s anti-democracy and anti-liberalism has roots in his former leftism. Leftists regarded democracy and liberalism as tools of the bourgeoisie. And they weren’t entirely wrong. Today, US and EU yammers about ‘liberal values’ but invokes them to practice neo-imperialist globalism.

    As for Mussolini’s anti-socialism, he meant Marxism and the idea of putting class consciousness at the center of everything. He became anti-Marxist but he wasn’t anti-proletariat or anti-working-class. And Fascism incorporated certain aspects of socialism.

    It expects total subordination to a personalistic leader who mystically embodies the nation.

    That was the worst side of Mussolini’s Fascism. It was too dependent on the cult of personality, on charisma. A true movement has to put national themes above the Great Leader. But then, it was a sign of the times. There were many crises around the world, and people demanded Strong Rulers. This gave opening to Lenin and Stalin. FDR won 4 terms because Americans came to rely on him as the steady hand during the Depression. Hitler offered strength and stability to Germany. Italy after WWI was in a state of constant crisis, and Mussolini seemed to be a man who could restore order.
    Still, it was a bad idea in the long run because a truly stable order has to be founded on something more permanent than the Great Leader. Cuba failed because everything revolved around Castro. And Mao messed up China with his personality cult. In contrast, Deng strengthened institutions and systems that would continue to function even after he retired from power.

    That said, people will always want some kind of strong leader. People love idols, possibly more than ideals. They are genetically hardwired that way.
    The reason why Jews gained so much power is they have strong and pushy personalities. Other groups are in awe not only of Jewish smarts but Jewish personality that keeps demanding, purging, pressuring, and pounding. Many are turned off or offended by such personality, but they are also awed and shaken to the core. All those spineless wasps gravitate to serving Jewish Power because the way of Jewish Personality is ‘never give an inch’. US hasn’t had a Jewish president, but there are many Jews with powerful personalities in various institutions, and goyim cower before them as the rightful rulers of America. So, even US presidents have been bowing down to Jewish Power.

    It’s difficult for people to understand fascism because as children of the Enlightenment they expect reasons. Fascism eschews intellectual doctrine. It is action, speed, violence. It is avowedly irrational. It is postmodernism in power.

    In a way, fascism is difficult to understand because it’s too easy to understand. Actually, people don’t want to understand it because it reveals too much that is true of their Real Nature, something they don’t want to face. Fascism is too ‘pornographic’ about the true nature of power.

    Also, fascism isn’t really irrational. It is a rational understanding and adaptation to the irrational core of human nature. In other words, even the roots of ‘rationalist’ notions are irrational. Reason is the instrument of our nature that is ‘animal’. Reason is never the root or core of our existence. Reason is like a tool we use to hunt animals for food. We use reason to fashion a tool to kill an animal to satiate our hunger and need for survival. Hunger is the root of existence. Tool serves hunger, not the other way around. At the root of all ideologies, no matter how ‘rational’ or ‘intellectual’, is the centrality of the struggle for power.
    This is why the so-called New Left became more obsessed with power than with justice. Or justice came to defined simply in terms of ’empowerment’. Consider how feminists, Jews, and other groups come across as nihilistic in their concept of ‘justice’. According to feminists, ‘justice’ is women rising up the ladder and gaining more power. According to blacks, ‘racism’ is about power. So, it doesn’t matter if blacks do good or bad with power. To fight ‘racism’, they just need more power.
    And notice how the Jewish concept of the ‘left’ and ‘progress’ has changed over the years in accordance to the needs of Jewish power. So, Jews went from free speech absolutism to ‘hate speech’ laws. Jews went from class struggle — there was a time when many Eastern European Jews were dirt poor and worked in garment factories — as the defining core of ‘leftism’ to elevating rich and vain homos(funded by Wall Street) as the new face of ‘leftism’. So, even ‘rational principles’ are always being remolded by the needs of Power.

  634. @annamaria

    annamaria informed me about the NKVD designer of a mobile asphyxiation unit: “Isay Davidovich Berg.”
    … Priceless is the education I get from annamaria’s comments.
    … She persists to cross all Zionist-constructed “taboo borders” which need be intruded… now
    … Thanks very much for your servus, annamaria!
    … Post scriptum: Where are the feuding tag-team partners, Engineer “FB” and “InZitatus The Builder” when wobbly Holocaust structures need them most?

  635. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Indeed, tourists can see the US concentration camps for Japanese Americans as well. Oops!
    Yep, that steam shovel really put the zap on you. LOL

    No alleged immense human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

    Hey, do tell us all how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ worked. LOL
    I suggest you peruse this thread to see the endless examples of impossible ‘holocaust’ claims that have been demolished. Hurts don’t it?
    more for you:
    Gas Van Film and Photo Fraud / German News Magazine and Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Museum Caught Faking Photo and Film Captions: http://codoh.com/library/document/3276
    ex.:

    and:
    Scholar Graf debunks the laughable ‘gas vans’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8251
    and:
    alleged ‘gas vans mass murderer’ SS Rauff worked for the Israelis: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4195

    http://www.codoh.com

  636. Skeptikal says:
    @Skeptikal

    The docudrama about the Auschwitz orchestra is “Playing for Time.”
    It is a very interesting case study of how ideas about the Holocaust were inserted into the mainstream via Hollywood, TV, etc., And the story was generally slanted to exaggerate the “holocaust” asepct of the story. Hence the fact that a lot of the inmates of Auschwitz were political prisoners is downplayed, and the Gentile characters are made anti-Semitic even if in realitly there were not.

    E.g. (from the Wiki entry)
    “Perhaps the best known documentation of the orchestra is Fania Fénelon’s vivid novel-memoir Playing for Time (an English translation of Sursis pour l’orchestre). *This memoir, and the subsequent TV adaptation, has assumed an important place in Holocaust scholarship.* Since its publication and tremendous commercial success, Fénelon’s testimony has been accepted as truth and widely dispersed in a plethora of academic, popular, and musical resources. This has proved a source of great frustration and heartache for the other survivors of the orchestra, who almost unanimously found Fénelon’s representation of their orchestra and its personnel false and demeaning. They have fought a fierce battle in the decades since Playing for Time appeared, to have the truth of their orchestra and its history represented. Some attention has been paid to their concerns, but in large part they have been ignored. The greatest sources of anguish are the inaccurate portrayal of Alma Rosé, the portrayals of many of the other musicians, and the diminishment by Fénelon of their bond and support for one another.[9]

    Fénelon’s controversial and disputed portrayal of Rosé presents the conductor as a cruel disciplinarian and self-hating Jew who admired the Nazis and courted their favor. A recent biography of Rosé, Alma Rosé: From Vienna to Auschwitz, by Rosé family friend Richard Newman and Karen Kirtley, strives to present a different picture of the orchestra leader. It corrects several errors in Fénelon’s account (for instance, Rosé was Austrian, not German) and subtler biases: Fénelon, for instance, was never the leader of the orchestra. ”

    From the Wiki entry on Playing for Time.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Orchestra_of_Auschwitz#Films

    The whole entry, in particular the bits about the controversies surrounding the film, is worth a read. As I say, a good case study of how primarily Jewish cultural actors presented stories that pushed the Holocaust narrative, to the point of distorting the actual history, including personal histories, of protagonists. To be sure one can say that the American public had been made or being being made receptive to this thinking and these assumptions. To the point where no one can question them.

    One must examine the agenda of people who changed around the actual historic details to create their “docudrama.” What type of agenda do these distortions serve? It is easy to see why the female protagonist in, say, a love story might be made younger and more beautfiful to increase the interest of viewers. But why make a Pole a Jew? Why make a normal (albeit supe-rsophisticated Austrian) Jew into a “self-hating” German Jew? Actually, these “plot changes” come down to being lies.

    • Replies: @utu
  637. Wally says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Why are you censoring Revisionist comments in your article about the ‘holocaust’ story?

    http://www.codoh.com

  638. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Who are you trying to persuade with this weak, transparent, tripe? If your personal Jewish IQ is sub-90, don’t try to outsmart us, “dumb” goyim – ever. You are insulting our intelligence and only revealing that the rumours of high Jewish IQ have been greatly exaggerated.

    I see this shit all the time on the Net. The Tribe seems to be filled with overconfident mediocrities.

  639. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I hope you read my comment # 436 about how people at Disneyland claimed they actually saw Bugs Bunny there …. at Disneyland. LOL

    Concerning the European concentration camps, which the Allies had plenty of as well, what do you think is at the former German sites which prove the alleged ‘6M Jew, 5M others, & gas chambers’?

    We await your response.

    http://www.codoh

  640. anarchyst says:
    @Mike Garrett

    When the WTC 9-11 destruction is finally outed as a mossad, deep state “event”, Isrel will cease to exist.

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    , @Paul C.
  641. utu says:
    @Skeptikal

    Most of the members of the orchestra survived.

    But why make a Pole a Jew?

    Here is a more recent example. In the film Hidden Figures the mentor Karl Zielinski is Jewish Holocaust survivor which gives him a capacity to understand racism against black scientists at NASA while in reality he was Polish-American (non Jewish) Kazimierz “Kaz” Czarnecki born in New Bedford, Massachusetts.

    • Replies: @Wally
  642. @cassandra

    Such a broad statement without support comes as a surprise; it’s very untypical of Ron. Can anyone (preferably Ron) provide some near-at-hand references?

    Cassandra, please note that he used the word, “seems,” which indicates that it’s his impression and therefore doesn’t require documentation. In any case, as obvious as it is that he’s correct, it’s also obvious that any reliable documentation or references are not likely to see the light of day. What’s the chance that any such thing would ever be studied in the first place?

  643. MarkinPNW says:
    @Wally

    You don’t even know what I believe about the “holocaust” narrative.

    If there were not any extermination camps, no homicidal gas chambers, no mass cremations, no mass graves, her story would still be very plausible as that of an involuntary “guest worker” during a time when Germany was experiencing labor shortages as a result of the demands of war.

    You’re creating strawmen that have little or nothing to do with the experience of my friend; she does not describe gas chambers, piles of bodies, or mass graves. She only describes being forcibly taken from her home in Russia, living in a labor camp barracks with awful food and very poor living conditions while having to work in a factory for a German factory owner without pay (as a slave), escaping and finding a kind German farmer whom she worked for without pay (you could say as a slave) but who treated her with some decency.

    For one thing, at the end of the war she was determined not to go back to Soviet Russia as she had no love for Bolshevik communism, in spite of all her surviving family being there.

    Piling on more hysterical unrelated accusations only further destroys your credibility.

    I guess she did get paid, by me, with my time, as an interested listener and a friend. After she became a fully legal US citizen she did go back to Soviet Russia to visit family, during the détente years. I am also friends with her daughter who I know very well, who recently went with her husband to visit relatives in Belarus.

    • Replies: @Wally
  644. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    Good post.

    Agree with

    ….too dependent on the cult of personality, on charisma. A true movement has to put national themes above the Great Leader.

    …a bad idea in the long run because a truly stable order has to be founded on something more permanent than the Great Leader.

    .. people will always want some kind of strong leader. People love idols, possibly more than ideals. They are genetically hardwired that way.

    …fascism is difficult to understand because it’s too easy to understand. Actually, people don’t want to understand it because it reveals too much that is true of their Real Nature, something they don’t want to face. Fascism is too ‘pornographic’ about the true nature of power.

    …fascism isn’t really irrational. It is a rational understanding and adaptation to the irrational core of human nature. In other words, even the roots of ‘rationalist’ notions are irrational. Reason is the instrument of our nature that is ‘animal’. Reason is never the root or core of our existence.

    And especially with this:

    At the root of all ideologies, no matter how ‘rational’ or ‘intellectual’, is the centrality of the struggle for power.

  645. FKA Max says: • Website
    @cassandra

    Scientists Discover Gene That Predisposes Ashkenazi Jews to Schizophrenia

    Variations of the DNST3 gene make Ashkenazi Jews 40 percent more likely to develop schizophrenia and similar diseases.

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-ashkenazi-gene-increases-schizophrenia-1.5294333

    The reason for choosing Ashkenazi Jews as the subject for the study, of all groups available, is rooted in the fact that Ashkenazi Jews are considered to be a an especially homogenous group, in terms of genetics. The limited genetic variation among Ashkenazi Jews allows for easy identification of differences between healthy and affected individuals. Professor Darvasi has studied Ashkenazi Jews for many years and employed the latest technology available to analyze the DNA samples he received for the study.

    Conclusion The substantial risk observed in the present study reveals that consanguinity is an important risk factor for schizophrenia in Qatar. In addition, the study confirms that the higher familial risks provide strong genetic epidemiological evidence for the overall heritable effects in the aetiology of schizophrenia.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3721918/

    Mental Health Disorders and the Terrorist: A Research Note Probing Selection Effects and Disorder Prevalence

    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2015.1120099
    […]
    There are only three disorders that have a substantially higher prevalence in the lone-actor population (see Figure 2), the most noteworthy being schizophrenia.

    https://www.unz.com/gnxp/indonesian-islam-is-getting-modern-not-conservative/#comment-1649658

    Figure 2. Mental disorder prevalence across terrorist actors and the general population.

  646. @ChuckOrloski

    I think you’re replying to the wrong post.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  647. @Kratoklastes

    I imagine you’re familiar with this, which I found while trying to confirm Jabotinsky’s quote:

    https://archive.org/stream/JewsDeclareWarOnGermany1933#page/n0

  648. The truth is no defense. RIP Ernst Zundel. Great article, I will forward it to the White House, our hero Trump needs to read this one. Ha!

    during the 1980s the offices and warehouse storage facilities of the IHR in Southern California were fire-bombed and totally destroyed by Jewish militants. And although Canada has traditionally had little political violence, in 1995 the large, ramshackle house that served as the residence and business office of Canada’s Ernst Zundel, one of the world’s leading publishers and distributers of Holocaust Denial literature, was similarly fire-bombed and burned to the ground.

    The Zionist really is the original terrorist. Since the founding of fake Israel they have been terrorizing the Palestinian people, Christians included, driving them from their homeland. They’ve turned the birthplace of Jesus into a death camp. This alone to me proves the holocaust story to be false, no one that has been through what they claim to have been through, immediately goes to do the same exact thing to their new neighbors in Palestine. They will prove the holocaust to be a hoax themselves. Their entire fake history is built on lies, theft and murder. They shouldn’t be surprised when the fake reality they’ve built comes crashing down, and it will. That is assured.
    I truly believe our lives and future depend on exposing their lies and crimes. The holocaust they’re currently committing against the Palestinians, and the holocaust ZOG America has committed against the Iraqis, Libyans, Afghanis, Syrians, Yemenis and so many others will one day be committed against us, or our children. We will be the final victims of the war of terror. Count on it. You can already see the signs all around you.
    The truth will win, the lies will be exposed, like the USS Liberty attack has been, 9/11 will also be exposed as the treasonous act it was, perpetrated by our ZOG govt. on its own citizens.
    Republicans and Democrats are both complicit in the crimes, both are subservient to a hostile foreign govt., we can already see this in the anti-BDS, anti-free speech, anti-American “laws” being passed in red and blue states. The billions in free money and weapons our govt. gives them while most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, can’t afford healthcare, veterans homeless, our infrastructure and schools becoming like the 3rd world.
    Their time is up now. The writing is on the wall. The more they try to hide the truth, the more they censor, the more times they stab us in the back, crash our economy for their own selfish gain, steal everyones future from them, the more people will notice what they are up to. All of their efforts will backfire. Nothing they can do about that. No more voting for anyone that isn’t willing to stand up to them. The German people are also are long overdue justice for the theft/genocide committed against them.
    Be mindful of their next false flag, to be blamed on Iran, Russia, China, whoever the target may be. In Syria most likely, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they set off a nuke or smaller “terrorist” attack here in America either, its coming.

    • Agree: Them Guys
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @jilles dykstra
  649. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Should we trust Kollerstrom?

    He wrote a book about Paul is Dead.

  650. @Crimson2

    Pursuit of historical truth=nazi
    Sounds like hasbara ‘logic’.
    Pathetic.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  651. @Them Guys

    Bottom like is, Most such crazed lunatic mass killer shooter perps, have been, Jewish.

    Not just shooters. Also serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer! Psychos… Its horrible, that I can tell you.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  652. Anon[731] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    The Nazis, not least the SS, would have been well aware of all this, so it would be interesting to know whether there is any reference to be found anywhere of SS or other leaders or ideologies making a connection between the kind of information (true or false) that you have just provided and there way they dealt with Jews in the Soviet Union.

  653. RudyM says:

    And it continues (my emphasis):

    On July 24th, after registering unique premiums I had developed for the two-week KPFA Summer Fund Drive, I received an email from the pledge room informing me that Guns and Butter was pre-empted for the two-week fund drive. The show had never been pre-empted during fund drives, no reason was given, nor any prior notice.

    On July 18th I received one other message from the station – the General Manager forwarded to me two email complaints from listeners, the day Guns and Butter aired The Impact of Zionist Influence in the U.S., a presentation by Alan Sabrosky as part of a panel, Zionism – Deconstructing the Power Paradigm, from an online conference. The GM wrote that he agreed with the criticism, that there was “nothing in the mission that agrees or allows unbalanced issue shows like this especially about a topic as sensitive as this.”

    Response to Claims
    “Holocaust Denial” Alan Sabrosky is a Jewish American war veteran and former Army War College Director at the Strategic Studies Institute. He did not claim that there was no persecution of Jewish people in fascist Germany. The focus of his talk was on present and future perils, specifically war with Iran. Airing his brief comments on WWII is apparently what has angered some people. There could be an equivalent number of people who appreciated those comments but did not choose to send an email about them.

    “Climate Denial” (Whatever that means) Programming on Guns and Butter has covered climate disruption, climate extremes, etc. It has not flat out supported the theory that global warming is the future trend because there are other scientific phenomenon and influences on the climate that are being studied such as sun cycles, space weather and the weakening of the earth’s magnetosphere, among other factors, that should be considered.

    “Crisis Actors” No one on the show claimed that Parkland student shooting survivors were crisis actors. What was pointed out was that it was suspicious that the student activist whose political narrative was picked up by the media was not even at the school during the shooting, but showed up right afterward.

    About Guns and Butter
    Guns and Butter is an educational program that provides a platform for opinions and analyses not heard in the mainstream media. The program is not necessarily about what I think or believe, nor does it constitute an endorsement of every thing said by a guest, but an opportunity for thought and discussion by listeners interested in differing points of view. In a time of extreme polarity in our country, open sharing of ideas is where we need to be.

    Guns and Butter spearheaded deep analysis of the seminal event of the 21st Century – the crimes of September 11th that no other program on KPFA would deal with. I also produced many hours of original economic and financial programming with Dr. Michael Hudson, Dr. Michel Chossudovsky, Dr. Webster Tarpley, to name a few. You wouldn’t realize it now, but there wasn’t any other financial/economic programming on the station at the time. The geopolitical coverage on Guns and Butter has also been superb. The show has produced outstanding programming on a wide variety of complex and difficult subjects.

    Guns and Butter was created by me and a fellow volunteer reporter in the KPFA Newsroom in 2001. It was approved for broadcast by a democratic vote of the KPFA Program Council that included community members. The program is fully edited and mixed for broadcast, and is a more than full-time stressful job to produce. It has aired for 17 years and has raised multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars for the station, which reflects very strong listener support. I have never received any support from the station.

    An unprecedented attack on the 1st Amendment right of free speech is taking place generally. Alternative media on the Internet is being removed, not just from social media platforms, but websites themselves have come under denial of service attack. Youtube has for some time been eliminating channels. I have just learned that Word Press is taking down websites. Computer algorithms are clamping down on search engines for alternative news and has adversely affected many popular sites, including Global Research.

    It seems that differing viewpoints are no longer allowed on KPFA’s airwaves and that listeners’ feelings are purportedly being protected by station management when it is information, facts and data that should given the highest precedence by management, not opinions. It is always uncomfortable hearing something that one finds offensive or that threatens to break one out of one’s bubble, but it is an individual’s responsibility not the station’s to take care of one’s own feelings. And rather than management deciding what listeners should or should not hear because of managements’ own personal biases or pressure from special interest groups, listeners’ ability to think for themselves and make up their own minds should be respected and not be subject to censorship of ideas and unknown research from either the Right or the Left, especially when it comes to KPFA which should be guided by the Pacifica mission that includes the following:

    To establish a Foundation organized and operated exclusively for educational purposes. ………In radio broadcasting operations to engage in any activity that shall contribute to a lasting understanding between nations and between the individuals of all nations, races, creeds and colors; to gather and disseminate information on the causes of conflict between any and all of such groups; and through any and all means compatible with the purposes of this corporation to promote the study of political and economic problems and of the causes of religious, philosophical and racial antagonisms.

    http://gunsandbutter.org/blog/2018/08/16/guns-and-butter-banned-and-removed-from-kpfa-radio

    Listening to Pacifica Radio in the 80s, when I was in my teens, was one of my early lessons in the importance of alternative media. Pacifica was covering U.S. cover intervention in Latin America at a time when it was largely or completely missing from mainstream broadcast media (if not print media). In light of that personal history, this is especially disappointing to me, though only somewhat surprising.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Anonymous
  654. You da man Wally. Keep up, the truth always wins in the end. The lies will be exposed.

    Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight.
    -Proverbs 12:22

  655. Wally says:
    @utu

    And the women who that film was centered around has said her treatment was nothing like what was depicted in the film.
    Also, she is half white.

    I think that BS film has been discussed here at Unz.

    And that would obviously be Karl Zielinski, fake ‘holocaust survivor’.

    That’s Hollywood.

  656. Skeptikal says:
    @cassandra

    People can have impressions from their own social circles and also from the surrounding culture.
    It is certaily easy to get the impression that Jews (1) are particularly neurotic, and (2) (and I think this is more important) being neurotic is actually part of the (American) Jewish identity. I can’t speak for Israelis, of course, becuase I don’t know any Israelis nor their popular cultuure and social memes. I expect they are not as neurotic—or as *happily* neurotic, as many American Jews. Here, the paradigm is Woody Allen. He has made a career of being a neurotic nebbish (for some reason in his movies he manages to get the pretty girl!!!). REally, the whole psycholanalyitical program, starting with Freud, can be said to be a product of Jewish culture.

    Another point is that Jewish neuroticism is a fertile feedbed for all kinds of varioety of furhter syndromes, such as guilt tripping, passive aggression,e tc. Plus liking to take apasrt other people and tell them what is wrong with THEM! Certainly the Jewish cultural obsession with the inner psyche has genuinely advanced the understanding of the human psyche and produced very useful therapies, etc.
    I would go so far as to say that the Jewish family and the hisorically tribal nature of Jewish society have probably produced a lot of the neuroticism. NOt that Anglos are not neurotic, too. Everyone can be neurotic. But the Jews do seem to enjoy identifying as neurotic, as being pulled back and forth between their Jewishness and other cutlural opportunities and identities.

    Just impressions. I am sure that some psychologists and social scientists have done studies on this.

  657. kiismerhe says:
    @Greg Bacon

    That video is blocked in Hungary as well.

  658. @redmudhooch

    Not just shooters. Also serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer!

    With that statement you give the impression that Dahmer was Jewish.

    I cannot find any evidence to support that view. It seems more likely that his homosexuality was the problem.

    http://www.adherents.com/people/pd/Jeffrey_Dahmer.html

  659. Skeptikal says:
    @RudyM

    It is very upsetting that Guns and Butter has apparently been axed.
    My father, an old Socialist who lived in Berkeley for the last 25 yers of his life and had his radio tuned to KPFA all day, was a fan of Guns and Butter.

    I also picked up from him that there seemed to be some internal political sh— going down at KPFA, but that was some years ago. Probably a different set of circumstances from the current crackdown.

    Sorry, too, to hear that WordPress is cracking down. I was just htinking about starting a blog there!! I might be shut down before I even get started.

    I do hope the Russians or someone develops an alternate Internet platform soon.
    And, people need to understand that they shoujld not be relying on FaceBook and other social media sites for basic communicaitons. You can use emal to communicate with your real friends. Using FB for that purpose seems to me to be just “feeding the beast.” Maybe that is what FB actually stands for: Feeding the Beast.
    We need SB: Starve the Beast.
    Don’t patronize FB.

  660. Wally says:
    @MarkinPNW

    And I say she was not “forcibly taken from her home in Russia”.

    ‘They grabbed a young teen, but not her more work ready family. Then she escaped the least guarded ‘slave’ camp in the world and scrounged around in the dead of winter’.
    Get out of here. Classic ‘Nazi’ comic book nonsense. LOL

    There’s no reason to believe a word she’s paid to say.

    Admit it, you’re a Believer afraid to enter the fray, knowing quite well that you will be embarrassed. After all, you are here promoting a fake story about a Russian teenager at the hands of ‘the oh so evil Nazis’.

    You’re just another PC cultist.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
  661. geokat62 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Excellent expose, Chuck. It certainly warrants more than the 32 views it currently has on YT.

    Thanks for sharing.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  662. Skeptikal says:

    Ron:
    “Truths and falsehoods were often mixed together in strange ways, and the door was opened wide to an astonishing number of outright frauds and liars.”

    I think it is fair to say that WW2 was an extremely traumatic event for millions and millions of people, whether or not they were Jews and whether or not they ended up in a KZ or their relatives did. People often have to try to “forget” a lot of shit just to survive and try to live normall post-war. The would go for any war. It is not only soldiers who have PTSD. Civilians, too. That affects the way they choose to remember the events, the way they choose to tell them to their children, or not. People were pushed into situatoins where they had to make terrible choices. Maybe they are now ashamed of the choices they made to survive. All kinds of things. Many, many stories/experiences never see the light of day.

    Ron, I think you need to take this fact on board when you discuss the ways people remember the war and its aftermath—the ways everyone’s lives were affected in ways that Americans, most of them sitting in relative security in North America, cannot begin to grasp. The lives that were stunted physically, emotionally, professionally, in every possible way because they had been born in some corner of Europe (also the East, but we are talking about Europe here). Show compassion and open your mind to these circumstances when you turn your attention on the apparent anomalies of postwar “memory.”

  663. S says:
    @Otterboy

    I appreciate your response.

    Regarding the article in the Atlantic, I don’t believe many will deny that the Jews have definitely suffered greatly through the centuries. But haven’t so many different groups of people?

    Exactly so.

    I commend the brutal honesty you’ve applied both towards yourself and towards the people you’ve been historically a part of in an attempt to bring about correction. That’s how problems between both individuals and peoples get resolved. I wish there was a lot more of that everywhere.

    I don’t happen to have a Jewish background, though I’m not too far off from the Anglo-Saxon. They’re far from perfect themselves. (Who is?)

    I’ll borrow some of the honesty of your words and apply it to them (the northern Anglo-Saxons) in regards to the southern camps (ie Andersonville, etc) and how after defeating the South they shouldn’t have weaponised their own suffering to both negatively motivate themselves (ie to murderously hate and fraudulently accuse their defeated Southern foes) or to demonize them either.

    ‘I don’t see any reason why they should take top spot in the primacy of human suffering.’

    Very true. It’s just not healthy or positive for anyone.

    Again, thanks and the best of luck to you.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  664. ‘Holocaust’ was an NBC (not ABC) miniseries in 1978. Rather well done, all things considered.

    At that time ‘holocaust’ connoted an end-of-the-world scenario. No one was thinking of a burnt offering, its core meaning. But henceforth it got traction as a synonym for The Six Million. This is why you won’t find any citations for ‘holocaust denial’ prior to the 1980s.

    Anyway, the story is partly based on a TV show, and should be regarded accordingly. However, the details have changed as time moved on. Initially it was 6 million Jews gassed to death at Auschwitz. Then 4 million. Then 1 million, and other millions elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  665. @geokat62

    Hi geo,
    Am a little stunned at how the Corporate Media allowed Auschwitz-visitor, David Cole, to appear on the popular Phil Donahue Show.
    … Am careful with what shyster Jews do in order to dull ZUSA-citizen minds, & subsequently I figure that Mr. Cole’s Donahue Show appearance might have been a cunning “trial balloon” designed to gauge dumb goyim-reaction when they got an indication that the latest news on a well known Nazi “extermination camp” was phoney.
    … Fyi, not surprisingly, I can not find a “You Tube” video featuring Cole and Donahue.
    … Thanks a lot for your comment, geo!

    • Replies: @geokat62
  666. Wally says:
    @Otterboy

    said:
    “I don’t believe many will deny that the Jews have definitely suffered greatly through the centuries.”

    Incorrect, very much so. Many certainly question “that the Jews have definitely suffered greatly through the centuries”. There simply is no proof, only shallow self serving claims. Recall the fact that Jews have been pushing their fake 6,000,000 since at least 1823. I mean, come on already.

    We hear ‘pogrom this, pogrom that’, but when you lift up the rock we find nothing other than maybe a minor local reaction to Jew crimes, not the laughable ‘woe is us, oh the horror!‘ that so many Jews market. Ron Unz himself has raised the issue, see:
    American Pravda: Oddities of the Jewish Religion, https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  667. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @redmudhooch

    They’ve turned the birthplace of Jesus into a death camp.

    Good point. The children of the father of lies.

  668. Wally says:

    LENGTHY, select ‘more’ if necessary.
    The ever changing fake Auschwitz numbers: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=faurisson&t=5631&sf=msgonly

    [MORE]

    A few more examples of the Auschwitz figures from a long series compiled by Robert Faurisson, just to give you the flavor of the farce:

    9,000,000 persons
    according to the documentary film Nuit et Brouillard (Night and Fog, 1955), whose historical advisers were the historians Henri Michel and Olga Wormser-Migot.

    8,000,000 persons
    according to the French War Crime Research Office and the French War Crime Information Service (1945).

    7,000,000 persons
    according to Raphaël Feigelson (1945).

    6,000,000 Jews
    according to Tibère Kremer, writer of a foreword for Miklos Nyiszli (1951).

    5,000,000 to 5,500,000 persons
    according to Bernard Czardybon (1945), according to confessions attributed to some SS members and according to the newspaper Le Monde (1978) that added: “of whom 90% Jews”.

    4,500,000 persons
    according to Henryk Mandelbaum (1945).

    4,000,000 persons
    according to a Soviet document of which the Nuremberg tribunal took “judicial notice”. This figure was inscribed nineteen times, with a commentary in as many different languages, on the Auschwitz-Birkenau monument. It was repeated by many different authors, including the Polish historian Franciszek Piper, ex-curator of the Auschwitz Museum. Then, it was declared false in 1990 and replaced on the monument, in 1995, by the figure of 1,500,000 with the concurrence of the same F. Piper for whom this figure is a maximum, while the minimum figure is 1,100,000. According to Miriam Novitch (1967), of the 4,000,000 dead, 2,700,000 were Jewish. According to Rabbi Moshe Weiss (1991), more than 4,000,000 persons died at Auchwitz, of whom 3,000,000 were Jews.

    3,500,000 persons
    according to the Dictionnaire de la langue française published by Hachette (1991). According to Claude Lanzmann (1980), there were 3,500,000 gassed of whom 95% of Jews as well as many other deaths.

    3,000,000 persons
    until December 1st, 1943, according to a confession extorted from Rudolf Höss, ex-Commander of Auschwitz.

    3,000,000 Jews gassed
    according to David Susskind (1986) and according to Heritage, the most important Californian Jewish weekly (1993).

    2,500,000 persons
    according to Rudolf Vrba for the Eichmann trial (1961).

    2,000,000 (?) to 4,000,000 (?)
    according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1982).

    2,000,000 to 3,000,000 Jews killed as well as thousands of non-Jews
    according to a confession attributed to an SS named Pery Broad.

    2,000,000 to 2,500,000 persons killed
    according to a confession attributed to an SS physician, Dr. Friedrich Entress (1945).

    2,000,000 persons
    according to the historian Léon Poliakov (1951); according to the historian Georges Wellers (1973) and according to the woman historian Lucy Davidowicz (1975).

    1,600,000 persons
    according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1989), of whom 1,352,980 Jews (the latter figure is from Georges Wellers, 1983).

    1,500,000 persons
    this figure, chosen by Lech Walesa, replaced, in 1995, on the Birkenau monument, the previous one of 4,000,000, withdrawn in 1990.

    1,471,595 persons
    of whom 1,352,980 Jews, according to the historian Georges Wellers (1983).

    1,250,000 persons or so
    of whom 1,000,000 Jews killed and more than 250,000 non-Jews dead, according to the historian Raul Hilberg.

    1,100,000 to 1,500,000 persons
    according to the historians Yisrael Gutman, Michael Berenbaum and Franciszek Piper (1994).

    1,000,000 persons
    according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1989) and the Dictionnaire des noms propres published by Hachette (1992).

    800,000 to 900,000 persons
    according to the historian Gerald Reitlinger (1953).

    775,000 to 800,000 persons
    according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1993), of whom 630,000 were gassed Jews.

    630,000 to 710,000 persons
    according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1994), of whom from 470,000 to 550,000 were gassed Jews.

    Please note that although in his “spontaneous” confession (with the help of “alcohol and the whip”, as he himself put it) camp Commandant Rudolf Hoess, the so-called “proud technician”, claimed 3.000.000, very few apparently take notice or believe him…

    And we therefore reach the last generation of figures (no pun intended) with Jean-Claude Pressac who pointed out a figure of 775.000 in 1993. However, he lowered the total number to 630.000 victims — only “470.000 to 550.000” of which Jews — in 1994.

    Of course, as soon as 08.01.1948, Welt im Film (British newsreel, nbr. 137) was indicating a figure of 300.000, but more recently it was revealed that the mortuary books (Sterbebücher) which had been kept during the war by the Auschwitz camp authorities exist at least from 27.07.1941 to 31.12.1943.

    Since the camp was opened in 20.05.1940 and evacuated in 18.01.1945, that period represents a little more than half the duration of the camp’s existence under German authority. The books, as released after more than 40 years, thanks in part to the Zundel trials of 1985 and 1988, appear to include approximately 69,000 names.

    Also consider the International Red Cross archives at Arolsen, always closed to revisionists.
    Can the archives of an organisation like the IRC be trusted, since neither individual “Holocaust scholars” nor the media appear to remotely know what they are talking about? Here is the figure then (17.08.1994):
    — International Red Cross at Arolsen: 66.206
    Dept. of Holocaust investigations (Ref. nbr: 10824).

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @utu
  669. @Florin

    ‘More broadly this, and the myth of Exodus (perhaps an inversion of the Hyksos’ expulsion from Egypt as a hostile ruling elite) and the Kabbalistically sacred 6 million figure go to a deep Jewish tendency to make themselves the perpetual innocent sacred Victim.’

    But this tendency is hardly unique to Jews. Greeks, for example, seem to be oblivious to the fact that they massacred Turks with at least as much enthusiasm as Turks massacred Greeks. I could cite other groups as well. In fact, I’d say it’s a universal failing.

    The difficulty is that the Jews have proven so good at first, getting everyone else to accept their immaculate victimhood, and second, at putting it to a very dubious use — to wit, innoculating Israel from criticism.

  670. Wally says:
    @P.J. Collins

    Indeed, the series was filled non-event after non-event. A veritable primer on the lies within ‘holocaust’ story.

    said:
    “However, the details have changed as time moved on. Initially it was 6 million Jews gassed to death at Auschwitz. Then 4 million. Then 1 million, and other millions elsewhere.”

    see my comment # 684, The Ever Changing Fake Auschwitz Numbers.

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  671. S says:
    @Liberty Mike

    Your comment about ‘a dress rehearsal for Nuremberg’ regarding the fraudulent accusations surrounding the South’s Andersonville/additional camps and the sham trial of Henry Wirz is well taken.

    The entire Civil War itself would seem to have been a ‘dress rehearsal’ for WWII in regards to the Soviet and German experience and how closely it parallels the US and Southern Confederacy’s earlier respective experience.

    The war between the internationalist USSR and its nationalist German foe starts in 1941 paralleling the 1861 start of the war between the internationalist US and its identity nationalist Southern Confederacy foe.

    The war for both Germany and the Southern Confederacy seems to go well enough for the first couple of years in their respective wars against the USSR and the US.

    Midway thru the war, 1943 and 1863 respectively, and at the heighth of their power and greatest penetration in their respective invasions of the internationalist USSR and US, Germany and the Confederacy experience crushing defeats and secondary disasters at Stalingrad/Kursk and at Gettysburg/Vicksburg each followed by two years of slow withdrawel and defeat.

    Final defeat for both comes respectively in 1945 and 1865 in May of the year almost coming for both on the same day of the month.

    Both Germany and the Confederacy had hopes of a ‘redoubt’ to carry on the struggle in the Spring and Summer of 1945 and 1865. Germany’s was the ‘Alpine Redoubt’ and the Confederacy’s was the ‘Trans-Mississipi Redoubt’. Neither would come to fruition.

    Adolf Hitler and Jefferson Davis during the respective war years of 1941-45 and 1861-65 were the same age in years.

    During the last months/year of the war approx for Germany and the Confederacy (1944 and 1864) rumors began to circulate within the USSR and US of ‘systematic murder’ of prisoners within their respective camps.

    In 1945 and 1865 a series of show trials are planned surrounding fraudulent accusations made by the USSR and US regarding ‘deliberate’ mass murder of prisoners in the respective German and Confederate camps…Auschwitz and Andersonville to be the respective centerpieces of this effort.

    The aim ultimately is to convict and then execute the entirety of the upper echolons of the political and military leadership of their defeated German and Confederate foes and by this to perpetually damn their memory.

    This plan is followed thru with Germany with numerous hangings, but largely collapses regarding the Confederacy with the exception of the commanding officer of Andersonville being executed by hanging in Nov, 1865. The US media would make accusations regarding ‘the camps’ towards Southerners for the next 35 years following the war.

    The internationalists US and USSR, the latter by way of the French ‘Red’ Revolution of 1789, share ‘Founding Fathers’ of their respective revolutions in the form of the Anglo-Saxon Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and apparently Ben Franklin, amongst likely others. Powerful elements of the elites of the Jewish people and hangers on are also involved in the US and USSR founding revolutions.

    Yes, one couldn’t be blamed if he or she wondered if someone wasn’t applying lessens learned from the Civil War to ‘guide’ WWII as much as possible, the parallels are that close between the two cataclysms.

    • Replies: @Heros
  672. I’m curious about the effect this has on any Jews who read it here. How do you process the evidence that you’ve been lied to since birth? That you’re not the world’s foremost victim and much evidence suggests quite the opposite?

    As a GenX, I figured out virtually everything I was told was a lie at an early age. Yeshuanity, benevolent government, racial equality, sex equality, impending ice age, global warming, media objectivity, academic integrity, etc, all magnificent lies. It’s all been bullshit.

    What’s it like realizing this only as an adult?

  673. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @RudyM

    An unprecedented attack on the 1st Amendment right of free speech is taking place generally. Alternative media on the Internet is being removed, not just from social media platforms, but websites themselves have come under denial of service attack. Youtube has for some time been eliminating channels. I have just learned that Word Press is taking down websites. Computer algorithms are clamping down on search engines for alternative news and has adversely affected many popular sites, including Global Research.

    They’re shutting down everything because they’re desperate. The tide is turning. After Brexit & MAGA they decided to “SHUT IT DOWN” Trump is weak to stop it (as always) but we can’t loose. Get organised physically/locally and never give up.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  674. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    What I understand by Holocaust denial are claims such as that Auschwitz and other such camps were not forced labor camps, or that Auschwitz was a forced labor camp, but that Jews were not among the target groups consigned to such camps, and in any case, everyone who worked at such camps was as well fed as anyone else in Germany at that time, had access to a swimming pool, theater and other recreational facilities, etc.

    Such a narrative is hard to square with the very bitter woman with a number tattooed on her arm who worked in the kitchen at my school, and, who, so our teachers informed us, had been incarcerated during the war at Auschwitz. It is also hard to square with the biography of Primo Levy, the Italian Nobel Prize winner, which describes Levy’s experience as forced labor at Auschwitz.

    Such a narrative is also inconsistent with (a) Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s book 200 years together,” which reports with copious footnotes numerous Nazi instigated massacres of Jews in what became during the post-war era, Soviet territory, and (b) Raul Hilberg’s The Destruction of the European Jews.

    I’m not saying that either Solzhenitsyn or Hilberg are right, whereas Wally and Unz are wrong, but it is ludicrous to suppose any reasonably unbiased person will take Wally’s hectoring and Unz’s adjective-strewn anecdotal skimming of the field, as compelling in the absence of any fair and documented rebuttal of specific claims made by people of the stature of Solzhenitsyn, Hilberg, Primo Levy and many others.

    If anyone wants to convince intelligent people that the deliberate large-scale killing of Jews during WW2 never occurred, they have to take the allegations made in the most serious historical accounts and show those specific claims to be false. At this distance in time, the evidence, if it exists, is likely difficult to assemble, but it is pointless attempting to browbeat and bully those inclined to believe reputable experts. The Holocaust deniers need to lay out evidence in a logical and comprehensive way. So far, they have pathetically failed to do that. Instead, they have relied on weak inferences, or have resorted to childish insults and bullying.

  675. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What I understand by Holocaust denial are claims such as that Auschwitz and other such camps were not forced labor camps, or that Auschwitz was a forced labor camp, but that Jews were not among the target groups consigned to such camps, and in any case, everyone who worked at such camps was as well fed as anyone else in Germany at that time, had access to a swimming pool, theater and other recreational facilities, etc.

    In short: you don’t understand – or you’re pretending to not understand.

    Wait – no one can be that dumb – you are pretending. How clever. You must be one of the Chosen.

  676. Anonymous[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Here is the figure then (17.08.1994):
    – International Red Cross at Arolsen: 66.206
    Dept. of Holocaust investigations (Ref. nbr: 10824).

    Over what period?

  677. The world is wise to the ways of the tribe hence the desperate push to take out Iran before the u.s. and it’s dollar goes co.pletely tits up. I’m pretty much convinced that the neocons grabbed Ukraine as a fail-safe for when they have to leave America. Israel cannot absorb all the America. And euro jews. What can the ukes do? They Are owned by the IMF. I Intuit a sense of desperation among intellectual Jews. They know they have pushed things way too far. Considering their history of assassinating enemies they must be wondering when Jews are going to start being found with holes in the back of their heads.
    I’m not sure when or where but a defining event is approaching wherein the JQ will become front and centre. That is a time when I would not want to one of the tribe or its lackeys’. My take is that no mercy will be shown.
    Europe and it’s diasporas can always recover due to intrinsic industriousness. The last hundred years has been a period of ruthless social engineering that is unparalleled in human history. Hence, a recovery will be painful.
    We can do without them…can they do without us?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  678. Anonymous[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Such a narrative … is also hard to square with the biography of Primo Levy, the Italian Nobel Prize winner, which describes Levy’s experience as forced labor at Auschwitz.

    Is compulsory labor really inconsistent with the provision of recreational facilities?

    Such a narrative is also inconsistent with (a) Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s book 200 years together,” which reports with copious footnotes numerous Nazi instigated massacres of Jews

    Are massacres of partisans in wartime inconsistent with an overall plan of evacuation of Jews to the East and out of German-held territory?

  679. utu says:
    @Wally

    Make a plot of the numbers vs. time so we can see what is the asymptotic extrapolation. Karlin could do it. He likes to plot everything.

  680. peterAUS says:
    @CanSpeccy

    …The Holocaust deniers need to lay out evidence in a logical and comprehensive way. So far, they have pathetically failed to do that. Instead, they have relied on weak inferences, or have resorted to childish insults and bullying.

    Whoah….wait a second, mate. Did you say “resort to bullying”?
    Talking about balance. Impressive.

    Who is bullying whom.

    You compare blather here with real life consequences for people who ae, in public, seen as “deniers”. From prison terms through losing jobs to social ostracism.

    I mean…for fuck’s sake….you compare “Wally’s types” here giving you (or me, for that matter…) a lip with what happens to them in real life. Bullying by some Internet handles vs bullying by organized state mechanism.
    It’s just ludicrous.

    Balance is sorely lacking everywhere.

    No wonder we are where we are.

    • Replies: @iffen
  681. annamaria says:

    “The Holocaust deniers need to lay out evidence in a logical and comprehensive way.”
    — But this is exactly what the Holocaustians are viciously opposed. Have you noticed that any laying out of “evidence in a logical and comprehensive way” has been criminalized under the pressure from the Jewish Power? The First Amendment in the US and the freedom of information in Europe have been violated to accommodate the “most victimized” and the “most moral.” — Though the history shows that Jews are neither the “most victimized” nor “the most moral” (see the Bolshevik revolution) but the most cunning and unprincipled (see Holo-biz, Nakba, and the zionized US Congress and the military: http://futurefastforward.com/2017/12/02/fighting-israels-wars-united-states-military-become-zionized/).

    The sequestration of the documentary “Two Hundred Years Together” (documentary!) alone reveals the pernicious Jewish Power:

    The Jewish Power has been eager to demonize all Russians (anti-semitism) and all Germans (WWII). Let the Jews taste their own medicine.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Wally
  682. geokat62 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Fyi, not surprisingly, I can not find a “You Tube” video featuring Cole and Donahue.

    Might this be the one you’re looking for, Chuck?

    Phil Donahue Show on 1994 talking about the holocaust with Bradley Smith and David Cole as guests.

    Thanks a lot for your comment, geo!

    My pleasure, Chuck!

  683. Anonymous[101] • Disclaimer says:
    @unseated

    It’s a great quote whoever said it, but it’s getting a bit hackneyed to be honest.

  684. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Primo Levy was, I think, in Buna part of Auschwitz and did not see any executions or gassings. Some people were doing time at Auschwitz camp for minor offenses and then they were released. Germans apparently were not concerned that the news of extermination will leak out from the camp. Conditions for prisoners were bad at times but after some interventions in Berlin were improved. Beatings stopped. Prisoners were getting food package from families very frequently. The prisoners who managed to get good jobs were doing quite well. It was horrible but not as you think. Read Witold Pilecki report

    He was an intelligence office who was sent to Auschwitz to set up resistance unit and gather intelligence. And yes, he writes about gassings but strangely w/o conviction, imo. He did not witness it. The manuscript that he wrote in 1945 in Italy was hidden for many years before being published. Communists murdered him when he returned to Poland. There is a possibility that his manuscript was tampered with.

    • Replies: @Wally
  685. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    I’m not sure when or where but a defining event is approaching wherein the JQ will become front and centre. That is a time when I would not want to one of the tribe or its lackeys’. My take is that no mercy will be shown.

    It’s way too late for mercy. That’s why they’ll be pushing for WW3 relentlessly – and loose anyway.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  686. Anonymous[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The last hundred years has been a period of ruthless social engineering

    Such as what?

  687. anonymous[101] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I think there is a strategy now of allowing ‘free speech’, but creating such a massive amount of confusion about every issue, that it become virtually impossible for the layman to get a handle on what is actually true. In the future, even the basic premise of an issue can be contested to the point where no basic facts will be accepted to base a discussion on.

    We see the start of this now, with all sides accusing each other of creating ‘fake news’. We will require a massive investigation to establish that 1+1=2, and even then there will be masses of doubters.

    When Mr. Unz began doing his archiving project of old magazines and books, I though this was a nice idea, but a bit eccentric. After some thought and experiencing some of the rhetoric during the last US election, I’ve begun to see what he is actually attempting to do, and I see the wisdom of what he is attempting do. We can no longer assume that this information will be available, and there are forces out there who may actively seek to make the information of the past unavailable to the general public.

    When a detailed record of our past is lost, we may have to accept a past that our elites create for us.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Them Guys
  688. MarkinPNW says:
    @Wally

    Okay, I admit that those who abandon logic, clear reason and verifiable facts and instead use attacking strawmen and using ad hominem lose their credibility with me. Yeah, I could agree with 99% of what you say, but you are going to attack me with emotions, straw men, and ad hominem over the 1%. Oh well, I don’t need to get any more dirty trying to wrestle with a pig

    • Replies: @Wally
  689. Cyrano says:
    @annamaria

    I think you hit the nail on the head. It seems that one of the themes of this article was: Do the Jews deserve sympathy for one of the greatest horrors in history inflicted on them, or do they deserve condemnation for inflicting one of the greatest horrors on someone else?

    I am in camp number 1. Jews deserve sympathy for one of the greatest horrors in history inflicted on anyone. For the rest of you brainwashed morons – Socialism on its worst day was better than capitalism on its best day.

    And yeah, your elites didn’t want you to experience socialism because they care for you so much. They couldn’t stand the thought of you darlings ending up in the gulag. They love you that much. Sweet dreams. Fairy tales are still believed in by propagandized zombies.

  690. Wally says:
    @utu

    The real deal on Witold Pilecki :

    What was known about “The Holocaust” – and when?, by Wilfried Heink : https://codoh.com/library/document/4521/?lang=en
    and:
    Letters, by Paul Grubach , James Joseph Martin , Geoff Muirden , et al: https://codoh.com/library/document/2366/?lang=en
    exc.:

    After taking part as an officer in the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, he was captured by the Germans and thus once again came into German custody. After the end of the war he lived for a few months in Italy, where he wrote a memoir.
    In late 1945 he returned to his Polish homeland where he was arrested as an officer of the Polish resistance movement by the Soviet-controlled government. Pilecki was tried by a Communist court in 1948, sentenced to death, and executed in a Warsaw prison. His family was not permitted to bury his corpse.

    and:
    Auschwitz and the Exile Government of Poland According to the ‘Polish Fortnightly Review’ 1940-1945 : https://codoh.com/library/document/2336/?lang=en
    exc:

    The truth is that the PFR, which was able to know – and no doubt did know – what was occurring at Auschwitz, said absolutely nothing about the extermination of Jews that had supposedly been carried out in this camp during a period of more than three years, from 1942 to May of 1945.
    The PFR Did Not Report on the Extermination of Jews in Auschwitz Simply Because No Such Extermination Occurred

    http://www.codoh.com

  691. Wally says:
    @annamaria

    “The Holocaust deniers need to lay out evidence in a logical and comprehensive way.”

    Revisionist have done just that. Witness this comments section and of course:

    http://www.codoh.com

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
    Thanks.

  692. @geokat62

    Yes, geo. Great job!
    … Strange how my post on the documentary is no longer up?
    … This morning, it feels like a “1984” experience where I think that it was here but now I’m not certain that I linked the documentary to my comment.
    … Thanks!

  693. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    I think there is a strategy now of allowing ‘free speech’, but creating such a massive amount of confusion about every issue, that it become virtually impossible for the layman to get a handle on what is actually true. In the future, even the basic premise of an issue can be contested to the point where no basic facts will be accepted to base a discussion on.

    That’s the past. A relatively smart person can connect the dots and follow reason/data. They can examine the info and place anchor/corner points first. At the beginning, we only need the clever ones anyway. That’s why we’re winning.

    What’s happening now is different. Let’s say you have a 20% blue-pilled population (filled with paid shills), 60% undecideds, and 20% red-pilled shitlords.

    The shitlords have all the data and reason to sway the neutrals. This is why we had Brexit and MAGA (and this is why (((they’re))) shutting it down). If we – the red-pilled people – are forced off the mainstream social networks, payment processors and search engines long enough – we won’t have access to the undecideds in time. There’s a tremendous inertia built-in into those systems and it would take years (which we don’t have) and billions of dollars to even create a 50% hug-box to compete with those platforms.

    The only solution is top-down, hard, free-spech regulation on the biggest information utilities. At the moment they’re completely destroying the discourse and that might change everything. That’s why they’re desperate and relentless.

    Let’s hope Trump wakes up in time.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Anonymous
    , @j2
  694. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    – No one denies that there were forced labor sites, by both the Allies & Axis powers, no false strawman arguments, please.

    – Indeed, Jews, like Japanese-Americans, Christians in communist USSR, and other perceived enemies of the Allies were targeted. The Germans did nothing different from the Allies and other countries worldwide at the time.

    – Auschwitz tattoos were relatively rare actually. The SS men has blood type tattoos as well. So what? All those gazillions of “survivors” you talk about are further proof against the dumb & impossible story that claims ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew that they could get their hands on’.

    Your Primo Levy also stated the fact that Jews had a choice to stay at Auschwitz & await the Soviets or leave with the Germans. Most chose to leave with the Germans. Oops!

    – As for your curiously wished-for ‘massacres’, you have been asked to present proof of them, you have been asked to show us the alleged immense mass graves that are allegedly at known places. You have failed utterly. They do not exist.
    BTW, books espousing witchcraft have ‘copious footnotes’ too. There are tons of footnotes in books which claim that soap was made from Jews and that ‘the Nazis’ made human skin lampshades. You are truly desperate.

    – Pay attention, look where you are, Revisionists are convincing people about the absurdity of the impossible ‘holocaust’ claims. In fact, you have helped in that by absolutely faltering when challenged for proof. Of course, laws against free speech simply provide further proof of the stupidity of your claims. The entire world is discussing so called ‘holocaust denial, because the “shoah” tall tales are absurd, impossible.

    – Please review the comments here, it is you and those like you that have tried to bully people. Stop projecting. But you know what? The days when we retreat from children like you are over.

    Summary: you still cannot produce proof for you absurd PC religious belief, aka: the ‘holocaust’.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @phil
  695. @Anon

    ‘Have you *ever* found Ron sounding like a Socialist?’

    All the more reason why calling him a ‘Nazi’ is inaccurate.

    • Replies: @Anon
  696. @Anon

    ‘You should be more horrified by Hitler’s mad racial motivation than Stalin’s ruthless economic and personal power keeping motivations…’

    Why should I?

    Two people want to kill me. One wants to kill me because I’m white. The other wants to kill me so he can take my car.

    In each case, my primary objection is that they want to kill me. Why they want to do it is very, very secondary.

    • Replies: @Anon
  697. Them Guys says:
    @Hegwood

    That is what happens when a Massive Lie is promoted as absolute factual Truth. Soon, when smart folks begin to ask sincere and honest questions about the massive lie. The liars then need to invent more massive lies, and re-invent former lies, in order to keep the huge swindle scam and $$$ flowing.

    At the point of Todays era, we now have been constantly lied to and with a grand total of at least six million lies, for a total time frame of aprox. 75 years or so. And when one follows the time line of lies as they progress and are added to, one sees that the lies become so much of a fable of falsehoods, it becomes almost a laughing matter to behold of.

    For just a couple examples of what we are supposed to believe is 100% factual truths, and never ever are we to dare question these claims, nor question the various Jews who claimed it as true.

    We have a claim from the Polish Underground Resistance Fighter forces who fought agaist the nazis. And which was published in some newspaper type regular underground updates printing. Which claims as fact and truth that…The German Nazi scientists invented a secret ingrediant chemical that they added to the zyclon-B Gas. This secret added chemical caused the Gassed Jews to NOT die until about, 10-Minutes after being gassed!…This added secret chemical also caused those gassed Jews to think & Act like a real voodoo Zombi effect, which caused the gassed jews to Walk Out of Gas chambers in a straight line, to walk slowly in zombie fashion to an already dug long ditch, where once at edge of ditch, then gassed Jews died and simply Fell fwd into the ditch. Those nazi scientists were very smart, and able to design the secret added ingrediant so to allow gassed Jews to remain alive exactly 10 Min longer, which was the time needed for a slow zombie trance like walk to the ditch and then die and fall into ditch. This secert addition to the gas also seemed to cause gassed Jews to, somehow think and know to walk to the ditch in single file before dying.

    Then we have the jewish woman camper who said she was able to achieve very accurate dead body counts of cremated Jews. This was made possible due to as she claimed, she noticed how whenever a Jew got thrown into the ovens, and began to cook/burn, if it was a Jewish body it gave off a different color and sweeter smelling scent in the smoke from the chimney. When it was just a goyim Gentile body tossed into oven, when they toasted and burned, the smoke color was Darker greyish and smelled very Badly, when compared to a Jewish body.

    Via this smoke scent & color difference, she was able to precisely calculate a huge number of Jews cooked in cremation ovens and at a rate of, something like, 200,000 Per Month with less than 1/2 dozen ovens avail for this cremation event. Later on she also claimed she was allowed by nazi ss guards to go for nitely walks on the camp grounds, and every time she passed by a dirt filled former huge hole dug so to toss into it, 300 Live Jews, and then cover with dirt and bury them all alive. She could stop close by the hole edge, and still faintly hear Jews crying for Help! Help to dig them up!….This went on for about, four months, while each time she walked passed, the Jews crys grew fainter, until one day, they stopped all crys for help…This is when she claims she was astounded at not hearing more help crys, and realized the last of 300 Live buried Jews finally died. And all of a sudden while she stood by the graves edge…A HUGE Burst of Human Jewish Blood flowed upwards, like a Fountain you’d see in a city center display with water fountains spewing into the air. Only this was a 20 foot tall fountain of Blood which burst forth from the dirt covered burial pit with 300 now dead Jews in it….OyVey! Simply Drastic, No?

    Indeed…Jews create different color of smoke when cremated, and smoke smells sweeter than gentile bodys smoke. And 300 Jews Buried Alive, Remained alive as long as 120 days after buried and constantly crying for help. And a rate of 200,000 Jews cremated Per Month!

    Dare to even consider questioning such total nonsense and abject jewish Lie fables, in many EU Nations or Canada today, and You go to Prison for as long as 5 yrs or more in some cases.

    Jewish Factual Truths, So truthful and so honest and factual…They need coerced nations leaders and parliments to make & enforce strict Laws that fully BAN all Free speech and All Questions or Disbelief’s in said, Jewish “Claimed truths”. And Put Offenders in Prisons for such banned conduct.

    That alone, spells, HOAX full of Lies and falsehoods that now equal the Greatest and Biggest Hoax scam of entire, 20th Century!…Perhaps, biggest hoax scam of All time, eh?

  698. @S

    When rulers claimed legacy because of religion, especially the catholic religions, jews indeed were seen as a problem.
    Though Luther was against judaism, this was the first time the monopoly of the catholic church was broken in Europe.
    The first crusade was inside Europe, against the Albigensians, they were massacred.
    Solomon Katz, ‘The Jews in the Visigothic and Frankish Kingdoms of Spain and Gaul’, Cambridge 1937
    Marcus Bull, ‘Knightly Piety and the Lay Response to the First Crusade, The Limousin and Gascony, c.970 – c.1130’, New York, 1998
    Emmanuel le Roy Ladurie, ‘Montaillou, The World-Famous Portrait of Life in a Medieval Village’, Harmondsworth 1978 (Paris 1978)
    The last book is based on interrogation records of Albigensians, these records show a peaceful society.
    It had to be destroyed, the Albgensians, their ideas stemming from Bogomils and Zoroaster, it seems, were not acceptable, a devil next to a good god.

  699. @redmudhooch

    Read Irgun leader Jabotinski’s 1923 article The Iron Wall.
    In the thirties Irgun specialised in destroying Palestinian irrigation systems, and bombs in market places.

  700. Heros says:
    @S

    There are a few other parallels that you did not mention between Reconstruction and De-nazification, one being the similarities between jew carpet baggers descending on the South and jew DP’s descending on Germany. In both cases they were picking over the carcass and exploiting vulnerable Christians, while waving the flag of the “victors”. Patton famously described how disgusting he considered these jews to be, and he did everything he could to not throw German families out of their houses for these millions of “holocaust survivors”. He also tried to prevent all the National Socialists in government from being replaced by devious, Christian hating jews.

    Here also lies another very important point: If the estimated 500,000 jews in Germany and 3,000,000 jews in Poland before the war were all part of the 6,000,000 gassed jews, then why were they crawling all over Germany like a cockroach infestation after the war?

    The KKK arose out of the need to protect white Christians from jew carpet baggers as much as from rampaging ex-jew owned slaves bent on Nat Turner or South African Zulu style murder and revenge against “white slave owners”.

    Jews love to portray Southerners as anti-semites, but just as with the National Socialists in Germany, there was ample justification for their resorting to violence to protect their own people from the deprivations of jews and the blacks that they use as bullets against whites. Unfortunately, Germans were stripped of any capability to defend themselves in 1945, and were starved, beaten, raped and murdered for years afterwards.

    In his American Pravda piece on “anti-semitism”, Ron Unz amply illustrated that it is jewish behavior that has forced host populations across the planet and centuries to resist this hidden jewish depravity and hatred for Christianity and Jesus. There is no such thing as “anti-semitism”, only judaism and their target hosts’ reaction to it’s invasion by parasites.

    Sabbatean jews and their freemason puppets have created virtually every war across the planet for over 200 years. As technology has improved, these jews have used it in the arms factories they owned, like Vickers, to create ever more effective ways of eliminating the best of the goyim, just as their Rabbis demand.

    One other major similarity between these two wars of Yankee aggression would be “Holocaust”, as in Christian genocide with the burning of Atlanta, Charleston, Richmond and the fire bombing of Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo. In late 1945 Hirohito was desperate to surrender, and time was running out for this sacrificial blood orgy. So of course, next came the nuking of Hiroshima and the Christian city of Nagasaki with bombs paid for and built by stupid goyim. Of course, with jews in control. How much satanic power was passed on to the one who caused those explosions?

    • Replies: @Anon
  701. @Anon

    Absolutely correct concerning historic fascism. And many Jews were members of the Fascist movement in Italy. Of all the different groups coming together in this movement, Jews were relatively the largest.

    By the way, Mussolini had two Jewish mistresses (Angelica Balabanov and Margherita Sarfatti).

    Fot all this, see the works of Renzo De Felice.

  702. iffen says:
    @peterAUS

    You compare blather here with real life consequences for people who ae, in public, seen as “deniers”. From prison terms through losing jobs to social ostracism.

    Dissent from the received narrative has always had bad consequences for the dissenter. The severity just varies over time. Just look at dissent during the war years. The idea that I should defend the Wallys of the world so that I can be protected if I express looney thoughts out loud is a piece of fool’s gold the size of Mt. Everest.

    The Zionists have their Holocaust story to help keep the troops in line. The Jew-haters happily provide help by being deniers. Then the Zionists can say to the wavering, “See! See! They are still there, still wanting to fire up the ovens.”

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Uebersetzer
  703. @geokat62

    Hi geokat, hello, it’s me again, not Adele

  704. Anon[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    No Oops about choosing to leave with the Germans (if it was really a free choice – a big if) for at least three reasons
    1. Better the devil you know
    2. Spoke the same language (or dialect version) but not Russian
    3. Reckoned that the Germmans now had a big incentive to look after them as a help in getting away safely, including not being bombed or shot up by allied aircraft or forced into non-guarding combat roles.

    • Replies: @Wally
  705. annamaria says:
    @Cyrano

    “Jews deserve sympathy for one of the greatest horrors in history inflicted on anyone.”
    — Why have the Holocaustians been aggressively resisting any research in the horror, up to criminalizing the research?

    The mem of the “incomparable victimhood” of the “most moral” (chosen) makes a terrible dissonance with the well-documented deeds of Jewish Bolsheviks. The current zionization of the US Congress and the military is just a mild reminder of the first Soviet government that was composed up to 85% of people hating everything Russian. The subhuman secret police and GULAG were organized and run by the Jews.
    It is impossible to disentangle the bloody history of the Bolshevik revolution and the decisive Jewish role in the revolution from the stories of the Holocaust (the latter is prohibited for researching — why?) By the way, the horrors of WWII were experienced by many different ethnic groups.

    Samples:
    “Naphtali Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag… One of Frenkel’s innovations in the labor camps is the “you-eat-as-you-work” system or the “nourishment scale”. This system resulted in a high death toll in the camps.” https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Frankel&bext=msl&atb=v99-2&ia=news — Millions died of starvation, killings, and diseases.

    “Rozaliia Samoilovna Zulkind (Rozaliia Zemliachka) was a communist Jewess, mass murderer, and war-criminal. She is best known for her part in the Red Army’s bloody ethnic cleansing crimes in the Crimea. Biographers describe her as “the hardest of the hard Bolshevichki”, a cold revanchist Jewess.
    It was with the Jewish Béla Kun whom Zemliachka carried out her most infamous atrocities. After the defeat of Pyotr Wrangel, commander of the White Russians in the Crimea and his evacuation, the Communists under Kun and Zemliachka began a brutal Chekist genocide campaign. Up to 150,000 prisoners of war and civilian refugees were butchered; including 50,000 officers. The means were sadistic, Zemliachka had them tied in pairs to planks and burned alive in furnaces, or drowned in barges that she sank offshore.” https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rozaliia_Zemliachka

    Real gas chambers: “The use of gas vans was supervised by Isay Berg, the head of the administrative and economic department of the NKVD of Moscow Oblast.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van

    Lazar Kaganovich (together with Vyacheslav Molotov) was given the task of implementation of the collectivization policy that caused a catastrophic 1932–33 famine known as the Holodomor. He personally oversaw grain confiscations during the same time periods. …
    The Holodomor was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine in 1932 and 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians. It is also known as the Terror-Famine and Famine-Genocide in Ukraine … According to higher estimates, up to 12 million ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished as a result of the famine. A U.N. joint statement signed by 25 countries in 2003 declared that 7-10 million perished.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
    For his ruthlessness in the execution of Stalin’s orders, he was nicknamed “Iron Lazar”. http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Lazar_Kaganovich

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  706. One of the imprisoned heretics should take their case to the Human Rights Council, because it’s a straightforward application of ICCPR Articles 19 and 20. Article 20, the fundamental law on hate speech, interprets hate speech as advocating discrimination against any racial or ethnic group. And the restrictions on freedom of expression permitted in Article 19 are delimited in General Comment 34.

    https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrc/docs/GC34.pdf

    To seek and obtain information on past discrimination by Nazis against Jews is to exercise a right protected by Article 19. Under Article 19, criminalizing expression of fact or opinion about past discrimination by Nazis breaches the rights not only of the investigator but of his prospective audience.

    This is a clear case of persecuting human rights defenders: persons gathering and reporting human rights information. General Comment 34 explicitly cites persons who gather human rights information as frequently silenced, and mandates their protection. To express an opinion or adduce evidence that Nazis engaged in discriminatory detention of Jews, as opposed to genocide, is protected defense of human rights as set out in A/RES/53/144. It does not advocate discrimination but seeks and expresses information about historic instances of it.

    This is a ultimately yet another case of Israeli state human rights derogation. Israel was admonished in CCPR/C/ISR/CO/4 to interpret the ICCPR in good faith.

    https://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/treatybodyexternal/Download.aspx?symbolno=CCPR/C/ISR/CO/4&Lang=En

    Israel’s covert state advocacy of persecuting holocaust investigators is human rights distortion in breach of two peremptory norms of international law: the requirement to interpret treaties in good faith, and the non-interference principle.

    • Replies: @Wally
  707. @Anonymous

    anonymous # 399 wrote: “Let’s hope Trump wakes up in time.”
    Hi # 399
    … Donald Trump might have conscience issues which result in an inabilty to peacefully fall asleep, but as he became preZident, via AIPAC-approval and Sheldon Adelson ($) endorsement, The Donald clearly knows about evolving Zionist Jew assaults upon 1st Amendment “Free Speech” when undesirable miscreants rock-the-limit of (sanctified) tolerant/diversity of ZAmerican thought.

    • Agree: RVBlake
  708. @Heros

    Well, all that proves is that those Nazis were devilishly clever and could make a gas chamber door out of anything!

  709. Anon[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Have you never read any satire?

  710. Anon[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    The issue isn’t about you or any individual’s personal situation.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  711. j2 says:
    @cassandra

    “As the war began to go against Germany in the Soviet Union and as Allied bombing began to affect domestic production, a more severe rationing program had to be introduced. The system allowed extra rations for men involved in heavy industry, but supplied only starvation rations for Jews and Poles in the areas occupied by Germany. In April 1942 bread, meat and fat rations all were reduced. This was explained to people at the time by poor harvest, lack of manpower for farming, and the increased need to feed the armed forces and the millions of forced labourers and refugees that had come to Germany.”

    So it goes in a war against the Great Britain. The Great Britain as a sea power first closed enemy ports and later in the WWII destroyed German economy by air bombings. The intended result is shortage of food and everything, and surrender. In the WWI Germans did not take forced labor and food from occupied countries (and finally the home front demanded surrender when food shortages started). In the WWII they did so to avoid the end result of the WWI. This means that concentration camp inmates and Eastern European people got food rations that are subsistence minimum adjusted to the work. If each in a group is given the same average subsistence minimum, then about half got a bit more than they absolutely needed (but were still very hungry) and about half got less than they absolutely needed. The latter ones starved to death and died mostly of diseases. But there was not more to give as soldiers had to eat enough to fight and the home front could not be let to collapse because of food shortages.

    The actual reason for starvation of Jews and Poles was the Allied way of faring war by destruction of the economy. They could have avoided these food shortages by using a different strategy, but war is war. Thus, forced labourers died of starvation because of the war just like soldiers died in the front. What else was there to do, except for to surrender?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jilles dykstra
  712. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    The shitlords have all the data and reason to sway the neutrals.

    What are the most important data?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  713. T. Weed says:

    This is a fantastic review and explanation of the basic revisionist texts and arguments regarding the hoax that has deranged the world. It’s long, but essential to an understanding of what has happened to America and the world because of the lies exposed here. Ron Unz deserves the highest praise for his efforts to separate lies from truth. I have read all, or nearly all, of the books he mentions here, and I began my “revisionist” journey because of the years I spent (as a TEFL teacher) in Saudi Arabia, for it was there that I met a couple of Palestinian expats, and their scornful ridicule of the Zionist Golda Meir’s oft-quoted description of Palestine as a “land without people for a people without land.” The Palestinians I met in Arabia had land, and they were driven off it at gunpoint.
    Like most Americans of my generation, I had no reason to doubt what we’d been told of Hitler, holocaust, etc., but after I got back from Arabia I began to doubt everything I had been told, so I started trying to educate myself. The result, over dozens of years, has been scores of books, many of those Unz mentions, starting with Butz’ The Hoax of the Twentieth Century. The people who perpetrated that Hoax (blamed on the Germans) also gave us the Hoax of the 21st Century (blamed on the Arabs), the inside job of 9-11. Then came the Weapons of Mass Destruction Hoax, leading to the invasion of Iraq and the chaos and death and misery of millions up to the present.
    The “Holocaust Industry”, the “Giant extortion racket” (Norman Finkelstein, whose mother and father came out of Auschwitz alive) is working day and night to perpetuate the Hoax, and our NJ school children are being subjected to this poison.

  714. EugeneGur says:
    @MarkinPNW

    she has never reported seeing any attempts of mass murder or gassing in any of the camps she might have been in.

    It proves absolutely nothing – only that she was lucky, perhaps. As you should know, a negative could not be proved, only disproved. Lots of people did see mass murders; some were survivors of such acts – this is proof positive.

    The fate of different people in that war differed drastically. Some it touched only on the side but some felt its full impact. That one person or other saw nothing could mean anything: that this person was in the wrong place at the wrong time; that he/she was unobservant or didn’t want to see/understand what was going on; all sorts of things. One thing it could never tell you – whether such event(s) took place.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Wally
  715. Wally says:
    @Elie Weasel

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    – Elie Wiesel

    Elie Wiesel accused of sexual assault
    https://medium.com/@jblistman/when-i-was-nineteen-years-old-elie-wiesel-grabbed-my-ass-10370829c4bd

    http://www.codoh.com

  716. Wally says:
    @Cyrano

    said:
    “I am in camp number 1. Jews deserve sympathy for one of the greatest horrors in history inflicted on anyone.”

    Yawn. You mean the impossible “greatest horrors” for which you nor anyone else can prove.
    It was so ‘great’ that banning free speech is needed to shelter it’s absurdity.

    But hey, True Believers gotta believe.
    Besides, there’s a lot of cash in that scam.

    http://www.codoh.com

  717. Wally says:
    @Anon

    So much for the “forced death marches” then. Oops!

    And all those Jews that the Germans allowed to stay behind so they could tell the world about the alleged atrocities. LOL

    And all those Jews that the Germans allowed to stay behind even though story says ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.’ LOL

    You gotta do better than that.

    http://www.codoh.com

  718. EugeneGur says:
    @annamaria

    The Holodomor was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine in 1932 and 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians. According to higher estimates, up to 12 million ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished as a result of the famine.

    Actually, the largest loss, in percentage to the population, was in Kazakhstan, not in Ukraine. The famine was all over the south of Russia, Caucasus, Kazakhstan. Horrid as the whole thing was, there was nothing specifically “ethnic Ukrainian” about it. Even on the territory of then Ukrainian SSR, a good proportion of the population was ethnic Russian. The Ukrainian are now ford of presenting these events as specifically targeting ethnic Ukrainian, a “genocide”, but that is not true.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  719. Agent76 says:

    9/23/1975 Tom Charles Huston Church Committee Testimony

    Tom Charles Huston testified before the Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, commonly known as the Church Committee, on the 43-page plan he presented to the President Nixon and others on ways to collect information about anti-war and “radical” groups, including burglary, electronic surveillance, and opening of mail.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?408953-1/tom-charles-huston-testimony-church-committee

  720. Wally says:
    @Heros

    See my comment #648 above about this. “The Industry” caught red-handed yet again.

    Regards.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  721. Wally says:
    @MarkinPNW

    Stop the silly projection & childish emotions.

    You’re a Faithful Believer being called out on his transparent nonsense.

    http://www.codoh.com

  722. iffen says:
    @utu

    derails prospects of the book being published by a reputable publisher

    In your previous comment you said, “Or is it true that she advised against publishing it?”

    What did you find in between making the two comments that allowed you to make the unqualified assertion that she did derail the publishing?

    I remind you that when your assertion that she didn’t cite Hilberg was proven incorrect, your excuse was that you were relying on Hilberg. Are you relying upon him now for this assertion?

    What does my affection for Arendt or Frank have to do with the price of tea in China?

    • Replies: @utu
  723. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “You should be more horrified by Hitler’s mad racial motivation than Stalin’s ruthless economic and personal power keeping motivations. Copying the latter as precedent, even assuming the conditions for it arise again, which might not happen, isn’t like accepting as valid the condemnation of someone to extermination merely because, unavoidably, they are born into one race.”

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    There were no Hitler ‘exterminations’, hence your resulting assumptions / conclusions are necessarily wrong.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”

    – so called “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

  724. Anonymous [AKA "Pegasus"] says:
    @Colin Wright

    The following is a quote from “Why Did Heavens Not Darken” by Jewish historian and holocaust survivor Arno J. Mayer, Dayton-Stockton Professor of History, Emeritus, at Princeton University.

    There is a distinction between dying from ” natural” or “normal”
    causes and being killed by shooting, hanging, phenol injectlon, or
    gassing. But quite apart from the vital importance of not allowing this
    distinction to be used to extenuate and normalize the mass murder
    at Auschwitz, it should not be pressed too far. The Nazi leaders
    decided to transport frail and sick Jews, and Gypsies, to Auschwitz
    in full awareness of the perils they would face, and they continued to
    do so once there was no ignoring and denying the deadly conditions
    there, including the endemic danger of epidemics. Besides , from 1942
    to 1945, certainly at Auschwitz, but probably overall, more Jews were
    killed by so-called ” natural” causes than by “unnatural” ones
    .

    (Page 365)

    This is honestly puzzling. Here there is a Jewish historian from Princeton, whose grandparents died in a concentration camp, seemingly claiming more Jews died from hunger, typhus and harsh living conditions “certainly at Auschwitz, but probably overall” than by execution by the Nazis. This is what the overwhelmingly majority of “holocaust deniers” are also saying.

    What do you and other holocaust believers on this thread make of that quote? I am a bit skeptical of the whole narrative since I read the book. Maybe I misunderstood the meaning of that statement?

    Here is the book, if you buy it through the link a little comission will go to help this site.

  725. @Anon

    ‘The issue isn’t about you or any individual’s personal situation.’

    That’s more or less the point. Ultimately, any mass killing is still about individual situations. That it’s a whole lot of individual situations doesn’t change that.

    There isn’t some supra-individual collective entity with overwhelming ethical significance — be it ‘Russian POW’s’ or ‘Germans who happen to be in Dresden one night in early 1945’ or even ‘Jewry.’

    Above all, it is a matter of individual deaths. Our significance is as individuals, not as part of some Borg collective. If you kill me, it’s scant consolation that there are other left handers, and they will live on. Conversely, if you don’t kill me, that your other victims were left handers pales beside the fact that you missed me.

    • Replies: @Anon
  726. bj says:
    @Cyrano

    do they deserve condemnation for inflicting one of the greatest horrors on someone else?

    The real holocaust is the firebombing of German cities, incinerating millions of old men, women, and children. The Hollywood Holocaust is entirely a blood libel against the German people. The horror, the shame is the Jews standing on the corpses of the German dead and claiming Jews are the ones who suffered holocaust. The Jews have yet to pay for this blood libel. Have you no shame?

    This may surprise the reader who regards the tale of Jewish extermination as a near certainty; such is simply not the case. There are many considerations supporting this view, and some are so simple that they may surprise the reader even further. The simplest valid reason for being skeptical about the extermination claim is also the simplest conceivable reason: at the end of the war, they were still there.

    The Hoax of the Twentieth Century
    The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry
    Arthur R. Butz

  727. @EugeneGur

    ‘The fate of different people in that war differed drastically. ‘

    Yeah. Perhaps irrelevantly, I’m reminded of the tale told by the daughter of a Dutchman who was a teenager in 1944-45.

    In one of those acts Wally will deny occurred, the Germans shanghaied him and dragged him off to be a slave laborer in Germany. Oh, the horror, right? Well, I’ll readily grant that in many or most cases it was a horror, a nightmare of humiliation, starvation, and physical abuse, etc, etc.

    However, in his case, first off, he was sent to a large farm, so there was plenty to eat. Secondly, he was there with a whole lot of other Dutch boys and girls, away from the still quite old-fashioned and strict domestic life of Holland at the time, spending every night in the barn without supervision…

    That does nothing to demonstrate German crimes didn’t happen elsewhere, of course. It does demonstrate that individual experience is idiosyncratic.

    • Replies: @Wally
  728. utu says:
    @iffen

    Your argument is with Hilberg not with me.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2007/08/22/remembering-raul-hilberg/
    Arendt borrowed extensively from Hilberg’s work with less-than-generous attribution. He never forgave her this oversight and–what truly is unforgivable–her condescending references to his study in private correspondence and her recommending against its publication by Princeton University Press. In his memoir Hilberg parries the insult, asserting, wrongly in my opinion, that Arendt’s study The Origins of Totalitarianism lacked originality. It is true that Arendt could be lazy about facts, which might account for Hilberg’s harsh judgment, but the first part of Origins contains many shrewd insights on the dilemmas of Jewish assimilation and paradoxes of the nation-state.

    Hilberg reserved even greater contempt (and loathing) for Lucy Dawidowicz, author of the highly touted The War Against the Jews. Here it can be said that his verdict was faultless. During the heyday of the Holocaust religion in the 1970s-1980s, Dawidowicz was its designated high priestess. The problem was that, as Hilberg brutally demonstrates in his memoir, she got the most elementary facts wrong.

    I was making two points: (1) Arendt plagiarized but got things right because Hilberg was right in what she lifted form him and (2) Because Arendt and Hilberg were right about Jewish elite cooperation with Germans in extermination of Jews that Zionist wanted to cove up she and Hilberg were blackballed by Zionists. Their books were not translated into Hebrew.

    I raised the issue why did she participate in early blackballing of Hilberg by wondering aloud whether she indeed gave a negative review of his book so the publisher rejected the book. Her shooting down Hilberg does not square away with (1) and (2). But it is not a fatal contradiction but makes one wonder. Was Arendt by shooting down Hilberg prior to Eichmann kidnapping was apparently following Zionist Yad Vashem agenda to blackball Hilberg? What has changed after Eichman capture? After Eichmnann capture she had no scruples borrowing form Hilberg withoiut attribution in The New Yorker articles.

    Now you can go back to your onanist fantasies about Anne Frank. And with the hand that is free you can have a cup of tea.

  729. Anon[820] • Disclaimer says:

    Some of this seemed similar to the Rape of Nanking, which wasn’t even a thing until decades after it (supposedly) happened. Not that anyone is claiming that the Japanese didn’t kill a lot of people around that time in China, but the branding of it as mostly happening in one city at one time is probably fake news.

  730. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “we won’t have access to the undecideds in time”
    “would take years (which we don’t have)”
    “Let’s hope Trump wakes up in time.”

    How long a period is time in this case and why is that? Time, times and half-time?

  731. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    It doesn’t really seem THAT revisionist, perhaps another attempt at ‘holocaust-lite’, which is equally invalid.

    quoted:
    “There is a distinction between dying from ” natural” or “normal” causes and being killed by shooting, hanging, phenol injection, or gassing. But quite apart from the vital importance of not allowing this distinction to be used to extenuate and normalize the mass murder at Auschwitz, it should not be pressed too far. The Nazi leaders decided to transport frail and sick Jews, and Gypsies, to Auschwitz in full awareness of the perils they would face, and they continued to do so once there was no ignoring and denying the deadly conditions there, including the endemic danger of epidemics.”

    There were no “mass murders at Auschwitz”, there were no innocents ‘shot’, no ‘killings by phenol injections’, & no ‘gassings’. There simply is no proof, and science does not change just because something is said to have been magically done by ‘the Nazis’.

    It may serve as the thin edge of the wedge, but it’s still filled with nonsense. I’m not buying it, nor should anyone else.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  732. Zumbuddi says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Most of your claims are irrefutable.

    The thread that connects the parts of your argument is: These things were made-up, fabricated.

    The next question is, Why?

    Why propogate such fantastic, and easily debunked, tales?

    Something really, really awful must have occurred that requires this level of diversion, this intense an effort at cover-up.

    From the armchair psychologist POV, we can understand that People Project: to save himself, a criminal accuses another of having carried out his own bad acts.

    The fundsmental elements of Holocaust dogma are that it was:

    Planned
    Industrialized
    Targeted a specific group, based on “racial” identity
    Intended to Completely Eradicate the targeted group
    Out of motives of Hatred of targeted group
    By Perpetrators who asserted Superiority and a Supremecist world
    view.

    Each and every one of these Elements can be verifiably, i.e. through authentic documents, etc. — attributed to major Jewish Zionist elites and their non-Jewisl co-conspirators, but the same may not be said AND objectively proven against the Germans- NSDAP.

    • Replies: @utu
  733. utu says:

    I just found this article byNorman Finkelstein.

    Norman Finkelstein about Deborah Lipstadt

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2007/08/22/remembering-raul-hilberg/
    Her lawyers imposed a gag rule on Deborah Lipstadt during her trial with David Irving–she was banned not only from testifying in court but also from speaking to the press–because they knew full well that a single word from this know-nothing’s mouth would sink the ship. In her account of the trial Lipstadt can barely conceal the lawyers’ contempt for her, yet she is too thick-headed to notice the absurdity of her smug two thumbs-up after the jury announced its verdict. She had as much to do with the victory as I did with last night’s performance of the Bolshoi.

    Hilberg about David Irving

    Mention of Irving’s name didn’t evoke howls of indignation or torrents of abuse from Hilberg. Instead he recognized Irving’s impressive apprehension of some of the subject matter, although qualifying it–with a touch of snobbery–as “self-taught,” and speculated that his preposterous statements sprung less from anti-Semitism than love of the spotlight.

    Hilberg about Holocaust deniers

    Echoing John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty, Hilberg even declared that Holocaust deniers served the useful purpose of posing questions that everyone else assumed were already answered. Hilberg was derisive of another of the Holocaust industry’s shibboleths, the “New anti-Semitism.” The much-ballyhooed resurgence of anti-Semitism, he said, amounted to “picking up a few pebbles from the past and throwing them at windows.” In his last interview Hilberg also sharply criticized Israel’s maltreatment of Palestinians, which, I suspect, couldn’t have been easy for him. (His daughter lives in Jerusalem.)

    Finkelstein on Goldhagen and Hilberg

    For reasons that frankly still perplex me, Hilberg was a stalwart and vocal supporter of mine. Truth be told I was always careful to keep my distance. I didn’t feel worthy of his praise and feared alienating him. We couldn’t have been more different in academic styles and I am a person of the Left whereas he was a lifelong Republican.

    When Daniel Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners was released in 1996, I approached it with an open mind. Both my late parents were of the conviction that all Germans wanted the Jews dead (my father survived Auschwitz) so I figured maybe there was something to Goldhagen’s thesis. Reading the book was quite the shock. The reasoning was bizarre, the evidence nonexistent. In debates on it I was accused of polemical overkill. It couldn’t be that bad: look at what reviewers were saying. Indeed, who can forget the endless months of breathless prose in the New York Times for the Holocaust industry’s new poster boy? It was a singular relief when I read Hilberg’s verdict: “worthless.”

    After a division of Henry Holt (Metropolitan) agreed to publish my critical essay on Goldhagen (together with one by Birn), the Holocaust industry went ballistic. Its attempts to halt the book’s publication were neutralized, however, when Hilberg stepped forward to praise my contribution. But Adam Shatz, wielding the hatchet in Slate, breezily surmised that Hilberg, along with the half dozen other leading scholars who blurbed the book, hadn’t read carefully what I wrote. In light of what is known about Hilberg’s fastidiousness, this would have been strangely out of character.

    Hilberg about Holocaust Industry

    Hilberg’s last statement for the camera was that next to the likes of Bronfman and Singer, even Shylock looked good. Fully aware of just how incendiary the juxtaposition was, Hilberg chuckled after the camera stopped rolling that he’d probably gotten himself into a lot of trouble. Ironically the British television station forced the producer to edit out this statement. Not even Hilberg could be allowed to utter certain truths.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  734. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “In one of those acts Wally will deny occurred, the Germans shanghaied him and dragged him off to be a slave laborer in Germany. Oh, the horror, right? Well, I’ll readily grant that in many or most cases it was a horror, a nightmare of humiliation, starvation, and physical abuse, etc, etc.”

    LOL, “slave labor”:
    “he was sent to a large farm, so there was plenty to eat. Secondly, he was there with a whole lot of other Dutch boys and girls”, “spending every night in the barn without supervision…”

    Some “slave labor” that was. LOL
    IOW, the guy volunteered to work in Germany as did countless others.

    You just stepped in it again. Not surprising.

    I’m glad that I’m in your head.

    http://www.codoh.com

  735. @Anonymous

    Elie Wiesel’s father was in a Auschwitz camp hospital at the end of 1944, when the Red Armies were only a few days away.
    As Elie writes, ‘we could have stayed’, yet they chose to leave on foot with all those in the camps, inmates and German guards.
    It was horrible in the beginning, cold, snow, hardly a place to sleep with a roof overhead.
    But after a few days a train to concentration camp Buchenwald.

  736. utu says:
    @j2

    The actual reason for starvation of Jews and Poles

    From what I have learned from many sources there was no starvation in occupied Poland during the WWII. Obviously there was starvation in cordoned off Jewish ghettos.

    Also I haven’t heard of starvation or serious malnutrition among the so called “slave” laborers in Germany. I mean the majority of laborers, .i.e., the ones who were not in labor camps. See Ida Fink’s The Journey which is a semi-biographical novel in which she and her sister on false papers (as Aryan Poles) volunteer for labor in Germany where chances of them being detected as Jews were much lower than in the occupied Poland.

    I knew personally several people who were laborers in Germany during the WWII. The ones who were assigned to work at farms usually had better nutrition than regular Germans in the cities.

    Then there is the issue of the last few months of the war when the infrastructure of supply distribution collapsed. How bad it was and how wide spread it was?

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @j2
  737. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    So are we to understand that what is being said here by the Holocaust deniers is as follows:

    The Nazi’s singled out Jews, as Jews, for incarceration and slave labor under conditions that caused the premature death of many, but that that was not a holocaust because the victims were not gassed or shot and then incinerated.

    Could we have confirmation that this is what the Holocaust deniers here are saying, for if that is what they are saying then the debate seems to have been largely, if not entirely, the result of a misunderstanding about terms.

    That is not to say that Jews were not gassed, I have no relevant knowledge to form an opinion. And it is not to say that some Jews who died as a result of their treatment by the Nazis, whatever that may have been, were not incinerated.

    But to most people those are not the prime issues, but rather the prime issues are whether Jews, and some other groups, were denied the civil rights enjoyed by most non-Jews under Nazi administration, and treated in ways that proved lethal to at least several million of them.

    If, however, the Holocaust deniers, are denying that any substantial number of Jews were robbed of their civil rights or caused to die prematurely by virtue solely of the fact of their being Jewish, then to be in the least bit plausible they need to provide a compelling rebuttal of the authorities who have claimed otherwise. Providing URLs and telling folks to go and do their own research is a pathetic cop out.

  738. @j2

    Because the British bombers were unable to hit the German industries the strategy was changed, bombing densely inhabitated medieval cities, with daub and wattle houses.
    The bombing there just killed women, children and old men, some two million, lenghtened the war, and caused more harm to GB than to Germany, according RAF bombing scientist Zuckermann.
    Germany’s war production was the highest in 1944, after Speer had got full powers.
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988

  739. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    said: “Lots of people did see mass murders; some were survivors of such acts – this is proof positive.”
    No its not.
    Please tell us who, what they specifically claimed in their own words, when & where. This should be good. We await. No dodging.

    Here’s an entire book of “proof positive survivors”, “testimonies” & “witnesses”:
    Witchcraft Confessions and Accusations

    recommended, see a long “proof positive” list of some of the accused who plead guilty or confessed & much more:
    ‘holocaust confessions’ no better than witchcraft’s
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7823

    http://www.codoh.com

  740. utu says:
    @Zumbuddi

    Each and every one of these Elements can be verifiably, i.e. through authentic documents, etc. — attributed to major Jewish Zionist elites and their non-Jewisl co-conspirators

    The Holocaust deniers like Wally’s Codoh prevent us from investigating the hypothesis that Zionists and Nazis were colluding secretly in perpetrating the mass murder of Jews the were predominantly religious Ostjuden. And you can add Communists as well to the collusion charge as they never had any qualms about exterminating religious populations like Russian and Ukrainian peasants. Ultra Orthodox and Hassidic Jews were as useless to the Zionist project as Christian peasants to the Communist project.

    https://www.unz.com/article/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2485881

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @annamaria
    , @L.K
  741. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I’d say the most important truths, that everyone should examine, are in the areas of:

    A) White Genocide.
    B) Jewish control of the Globalist Cabal and its infrastructure (media, banking, war-making, etc.) in pursuit of the NWO.
    C) The NWO plan itself and the WW3 plan.

    The data is everywhere. Here’s a nugget:

    George Soros’ Son Reveals the True Agenda Behind Flooding the West With 3rd World Immigrants

    “When the caffeine finally kicked in, Alex told me that for many years, his father had not been eager to advertise his Judaism because “this was something he was almost killed for.” But he had always “identified firstly as a Jew,” and his philanthropy was ultimately an expression of his Jewish identity, in that he felt a solidarity with other minority groups and also because he recognized that a Jew could only truly be safe in a world in which all minorities were protected.

    Explaining his father’s motives, he said, “The reason you fight for an open society is because that’s the only society that you can live in, as a Jew — unless you become a nationalist and only fight for your own rights in your own state.”

    So there you have it – (((Alex))) is lying about the “almost killed” part and true motives but he’s ultimately admitting that his father is fully invested in the White Genocide Project.

    Now, since we have the data, let’s use reason:

    – Why are those Jews allowed to use their wast wealth to genocide 800+ million people? How come you haven’t seen this explosive revelation on the front pages of the (((MSM)))? How come they’re not on trial? Why are their genocidal networks still operating?

    – Why is the (((MSM))) still describing Soros as a “philanthropist” despite his own admission that the philanthropist “persona” is completely fake? https://archive.fo/vYHeN

    – Why is Alex lying about felling unsafe in white countries?

    – Why does he feel entitled to genocide his hosts off the face of the Planet to feel safer?

    – What will happen to the white race when they become minorities in their own countries worldwide?

    – What’s happening in South Africa now?

  742. Anonymous[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Isn’t this consistent with the gas chambers claim? Wouldn’t the Germans want to put a “gas resistant door” up to seal off a gas chamber?

  743. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    – Revisionists do not ‘deny’ what was impossible in the first place.You’ve been challenged many times for proof, but heretofore you have failed utterly to produce it. We know why.

    – Your so called ‘slave labor in concentration camps’ was no different than what the Allies did.
    You cannot prove me wrong.

    – Revisionists do say, and have proven repeatedly, that Jew were not gassed. Ignore the facts and look foolish if you wish.

    – The Allies denied the civil rights of endless numbers of people.
    There was no “lethal to at least several million of them”. Again, you have completely failed to prove such absurd claims.

    The quickest & most direct rebuttals to the impossible claims are that the claims are well, impossible. And the claimed immense human remains do not exist. And the fact that the false narrative is filled with preposterous contradictions.

    – The urls are provided in support of Revisionist rebuttals. Of course a True Believer like yourself prefers to ignore irrefutable research. I note that you also dodge information stated in plain text and images right here at this site. Oops!

    – Your leftist PC language is a cry for assistance. Want to talk about Jesse Owens or something?

    http://www.codoh.com

  744. cassandra says:
    @Anon

    But, there is a saving grace about Israeli fascism. It is honest. It is about blood and soil, it is about Jewish identity and power, it is about a sense of culture and history. And there is real nobility in that. It means Jews in Israel will be adaptive and creative in whatever to secure the survival and power of Jews in the Holy Land.

    Is this ever a chilling statement! If you replaced Jews with Germans and Israel with Germany, it could have been lifted straight from Mein Kampf.

    [MORE]

    I read MK for the first time about a year ago, and instead of finding ravings of a madman, I found Hitler’s comments to be extremely hard-line, but astute, thoughtful, and genuinely patriotic.

    He criticized parliamentary democracies on the grounds that elected politicians, no matter how inept, were immune from accountability, and were mainly motivated by their re-election prospects. He felt that the duty of a state is to protect the people in their native geographical habitat, and preserve their “sense of culture and history”. He clearly objected to Jews as being non-Germans, and responsible for some of the corruption of German society, though I found the number of statements fewer and less rabid than what I’d been expecting from second-hand hearsay.

    Hitler’s hard-line personality determined how this ideology would play itself out. He was a proven war-hero, detested how internal left-wing protests were weakening Germany’s resolve in WWI, and energetically and fearlessly organized patriotic factions so they could give Antifa as good as they got during street fights and political rallies.

    In international relations, he believed that all peoples were destined to compete culturally in a zero-sum game, which explains a great deal about his attitude toward the Slavs and Jews. After the Treaties of Versailles and St. Germaine, the attempted ethnic cleansing of national minorities by Poland, and the rise of widespread sex-trafficking in Berlin, such attitudes are hardly unsurprising.

    That someone like Hitler, with a great deal of courage, conviction, intelligence and ruthlessness, adopting a hardline policy would be perfectly understandable. Understandable perhaps, but with disastrously arrogant consequences.

    Where else have we heard, “Kill them before they kill us.”? Oh, that’s right: this time it’s different.

    • Replies: @Anon
  745. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    “If only.” Well, that’s the problem. Once “just” “denial” is prohibited, then comes the question again and again, what is, or is not “denial.”

    Once you let the camel poke his nose into the tent … you get the whole camel.

  746. Zumbuddi says:
    @utu

    Iran was Neutral in both wars, but was occupied by Allies in both wars, and used/ exploited to provision British troops, in addition to systemic exploitation of its people and. resources.

    In WWI approx. 30 million Iranians died in famine brought about by British control over Iranian crops and resources, and in WWII thousands of Irsnians died as Allies careened recklessly in Iranian towns and cities.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Colin Wright
  747. Wally says:
    @utu

    Hey dumb & debunked True Believer in laughable ‘Nazi gas chambers’ *, I prevent no one from investigating anything. LOL

    * https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/
    comment 429

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  748. peterAUS says:
    @iffen

    The Zionists have their Holocaust story to help keep the troops in line.

    Of course.

    But, as you say:

    Dissent from the received narrative has always had bad consequences for the dissenter.

    my point is simple: put “Wally’s types” in position of power and you’ll have the same, just the narrative would (diametrically) change.
    The same “opposites”.

    The same……….shit.

  749. annamaria says:
    @CanSpeccy

    CanSpeccy: “…they need to provide a compelling rebuttal of the authorities who have claimed otherwise.”
    — Could you show some honesty, Sir? The above article explains in a very clear manner how those who try to “provide a compelling rebuttal,” and conduct an investigation of the Holo-mems, are hauled into prisons, dismissed from their jobs, and some even assaulted by the Jewish thugs from ADL and such.

    CanSpeccy: “That is not to say that Jews were not gassed, I have no relevant knowledge to form an opinion.”
    — What is your opinion of the well-documented facts of the Bolshevik Jews gassing the Russians? Should not Jews, en masse, atone for their crimes against humanity committed in Russia?
    “The mobile gassing truck was invented and tested by Isay Davidovich Berg, head of the NKVD Economics Division in the Moscow region. In 1937, a second highpoint in the Great Purge, prisoners were sentenced to death in conveyor-belt fashion, packed into trucks, taken to the places of execution, shot in the back of the neck, and buried. In the economic sense, Isay Berg found this method of liquidation inefficient, time-consuming and cost-intensive. He, therefore, in 1937 designed the mobile asphyxiation chamber, the gassing truck (Russian: dushegubka, p. 297). The doomed were loaded into a tightly sealed, completely airtight Russian Ford; during the drive the deadly exhaust from a gasoline engine was directed into the section containing those sentenced to death. Upon reaching the mass gravesite, the truck dumped the corpses into the burial ditch.”

    “On the basis of document analysis, Solzhenitsyn states that Lenin had three reasons for elevating young secular, revolutionary-minded Jews to the State’s elite, in effect replacing the Tsarist bureaucracy. First, because of the deadly hate the young Jews had for Russian traditions, religious rites, historical models, hate for everything Russian and Russia itself.
    Second, their willingness to cross the last taboo borders in morality. And third, their readiness to physically liquidate the enemy.”

    “Solzhenitsyn lists the names of about fifty mass murderers, desk criminals, and murderers of prisoners. (p. 300f.) Their first names betray the ethnic origin of these monsters. Moise Framing, Mordichai Chorus, Josef Khodorovsky, Isaak Solz, Naum Zorkin, Moise Kalmanovich, Samuel Agurski, Lazar Aronstam, Israel Weizer, Aron Weinstein, Isaak Grindberg, Sholom Dvoylazki, Max Daitsh, Yesif Dreiser, Samuel Saks, Jona Jakir, Moise Kharitonov, Frid Markus, Solomon Kruglikov, Israel Razgon, Benjamin Sverdlov, Leo Kritzman…” https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/soc.culture.jewish/nBYdz5icdLA/qVEDk_NODoQJ

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  750. annamaria says:
    @utu

    “…the hypothesis that Zionists and Nazis were colluding secretly in perpetrating the mass murder of Jews…”
    — There is a much simpler explanation — profiteering. The “major Jewish Zionist elites” wanted and want money from Germany, Austria, Poland et al to make white people “atone” for the “incomparable sufferings” of Jews in WWII. (As if other ethnic groups were all spared).

    The attempts at extortions have not abided up to date.

    “80 Years On, Austria’s Jews Renew Demand for Holocaust Reparations:” http://matzav.com/80-years-on-austrias-jews-renew-demand-for-holocaust-reparations/

    “Israel to Seek Another 1B Euros Holocaust in Reparations From Germany:” https://www.haaretz.com/1.4881652

    This indecency could be alleviated only if the “chosen” reminded again and again about their enormous crimes against humanity in Russia, as well as about Nakba and the existence of Gaza Ghetto (a replica of Warsaw Ghetto).

    It is quite possible that the ongoing demonization of Russia can be explained, in part, by the desire to suppress the truth about the enormity of Jewish crimes against the multi-ethnic populations in Russia after the Bolshevik revolution.

    “Solzhenitsyn lists the names of about fifty mass murderers, desk criminals, and murderers of prisoners. (p. 300f.) Their first names betray the ethnic origin of these monsters. Moise Framing, Mordichai Chorus, Josef Khodorovsky, Isaak Solz, Naum Zorkin, Moise Kalmanovich, Samuel Agurski, Lazar Aronstam, Israel Weizer, Aron Weinstein, Isaak Grindberg, Sholom Dvoylazki, Max Daitsh, Yesif Dreiser, Samuel Saks, Jona Jakir, Moise Kharitonov, Frid Markus, Solomon Kruglikov, Israel Razgon, Benjamin Sverdlov, Leo Kritzman…” https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/soc.culture.jewish/nBYdz5icdLA/qVEDk_NODo

  751. peterAUS says:
    @CanSpeccy

    …the prime issues are whether Jews, and some other groups, were denied the civil rights enjoyed by most non-Jews under Nazi administration, and treated in ways that proved lethal to at least several million of them.

    Yup.
    Keywords “treated in ways that proved lethal to at least several million”.
    Gas chamber, machinegun, typhus, forced labor , elements….simply does not matter.

    You pick up, say, Red Indians from USA now, put them into a couple of huge bulk carriers and ship them into “Screaming Sixties”. Disable all engines, lifeboats and such, lift the crews and leave those who survived the trip drifting there.
    No gas chambers, guns, forced labor. Just COLD and sickness.Some resourceful and lucky will probably even survive.
    Genocide?

    Crazy.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Art
  752. Zumbuddi says:
    @utu

    You vest a lot of power in Wally!
    How many people has Wally sent to jail?

    Also not inclined to give a lot of weight to “denying the holocaust plays into the hands of the zionists.” I’ve been at too many Jewish-run talks wher criticism of Israel, zionist treatment of Palestinians, exploitation of holocaust is branded, “strengthening Bibi’s agenda.”

    But then, I reject the tag, Holocaust denier. It implies that Holocaust Affirmation is the obvious and ineluctible reality, and any other position is an outlier.

    Strictly speaking, Holocaust priests / priestesses are the Revisionists: what they spew is not genuine history, it is a revision , or inversion, of History — What Really Happened.

    As for not being able to research and get to the bottom of the disappearsnce of undesireable Ostjuden — First of all, years ago when I read Etan Bloom’s work on Arthur Ruppin; and bumped it up against the fact that the vast majority of ‘holocausted’ were Ostjuden; then heard Michael Ledeen speak about “Jews killing Jews,” then learn that Brandeis said in Feb 1933 to “get all the German Jews out of Germany, all 587 000 German Jews,” at a time when there were over 2 million Jews sheltered in Germany — the conclusion seemed obvious to me: In the eyes of Nordau to Ruppin to Brandeis, some Jews did not possess”life worthy of life” and they were sentenced to death, directly at Jewish hand or thru contract killers.

    Second, I’m not Jewish. I do not owe allegiance or approbation to any Jew, not ADL, not AIPAC, not the Presidents. I work consciously to refrain from “internalizing the demands of the Oppressor.” I work hard to argue with facts and logic, giving civil resprct to the Adversary but NOT unwarranted deference. Jewish elites just don’t impress me that much, because I Am convinced the facts and logic are on my side. That the only was Jewish elites / Holocoasters can “win” is by force & bullying is a weakn ess, not a strength.

  753. @Wally

    Wally wrote: “There were no “mass murders at Auschwitz”, there were no innocents ‘shot’, no ‘killings by phenol injections’, & no ‘gassings’. There simply is no proof…,”
    Hi Wally,
    … I appreciate your comments here & I come in peace with a question in particular the words above, “no innocents shot at Auschwitz.”
    … Fyi, am a third generation Polish American, and years ago I read Jan Karski’s “The Story of a Secret State” which became a 1946, “Book of the Month” selection.
    … From a staunch & rather well off Roman Catholic family, Jan Karski joined the Polish Underground and became a heroic courier.
    … Included in a chapter of his book is the late-Karski’s description of how he managed to enter Auschwitz (1943) disguised in a Latvian (?) military uniform.
    … Inside Auschwitz, Karski alleged horrors, starvation & German guards enjoyably taking rifle shots prisoner Jews.
    … After WWII, Jan Karski came to America and became a Georgetown University professor, and now, the campus displays a statue of him, sitting upon a bench & feeding birds.
    … Approximately 2012, I read a book about Jan Karski’s life & daring war exploits.
    Regret I cannot recall the book’s title, but it was written by a Jewish author who profiled Karski as a teenager & his mother’s having socialized him with 1/3 Roman Catholicism & 2/3 Judaism.
    … In my opinion, the book attempted to blatantly persuade readers that Jan Karski’s heroic WWII Underground career was primarily motivated by Jewish teaching as a young man.
    … Now Wally, finally my question.
    … Are you aware about Jan Karski’s having slipped into Auschwitz in disguise and of course later describe his witnessing German soldiers merrily taking pot shots at fleeing emaciated Jews?
    … To reiterate, Wally, I come in peace, my aim is true and as a dumb goyim “Pollock,” I figured it might be helpful to interrogate you!
    FYR, below is a CT scan on Jan Karski, with of course a possibility of rigged results.
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/24/how-a-polish-courier-tried-to-tell-the-world-about-the-holocaust/

  754. Bravo Mr. Unz. I really appreciate your work. Thanks again and please keep up the good work.

  755. @utu

    Thanks, I just read the whole article and learned a lot.

  756. @anarchyst

    When the WTC 9-11 destruction is finally outed as a mossad, deep state “event”

    I don’t see that happening in my lifetime.
    – nor Israel’s hand in JFK’s murder
    – or their purchase of our congress
    – or…

  757. @Wally

    Hey Wally,
    Fyi, made a date-error in previous comment to you, & in meantime, I learned Karski’s book, “The Story of a Secret State” was actually published in 1944. Obtained & read original copy at University of Scranton library!
    … Also, please consider the fact that in 2015, I purchased a new edition (paperback) of the book so that my college age son could one day read it.
    … Oddly enough, fyi, I did not see Karski’s chilling account about his having sneaked inside Auschwitz within the reprise edition of “Story of a Secret State.”
    … At present, Wally, I do not have the book’s new edition, but, I know for a fact that the (original) 1944 edition used the word “Osweicum” in order to describe the camp where shocked Karski entered & wrote about.
    … Thank you…, uh, Walter.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  758. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:

    @ utu

    Not interesting. Only empty words.

    You are a believer. And if after reading Mr Unz’s brilliant essay, you’re still a believer, it’s highly likely that you will always be a believer.

    What you should know is that in reality there is no real difference between Norman Finkelstein, Dershowitz , Noam Chomsky, Hilberg, Sanders, Deborah Lipstadt , Elie Wiesel…etc…

    They all believe in the false narrative. None of them would ever make the journey that Mr Unz or Gilad Atzmon made.

    Norman Finkelstein is not someone that should be taken seriously. No scholar that really believes that a fraud like Bernie Sanders should President can be taken seriously.

    Yes, NF and NC defend the Palestinians and, that’s honorable. But they also believe in all the official narrative the tribe sell to goyim. Maybe it’s just coincidence but I find it bizarre that such brilliant intellect happen to believe everything the tribe say.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  759. @Anon

    To summarize, not to assert, I strongly reject fascism. Additionally, I think it is infeasible.

    There were many left vanguard sects in the 70s and 80s, culminating in Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition which was an entryist exercise for a number of them. The sects mostly vanished after the Soviet Union failed – because the model had become wholly implausible both to true believers and any mass audience. Vanguardism is a waste of time. Those who worked on elections and policy — or on themselves, families, and communities — had far more effect. Vanguardism does not succeed except in desperate situations and often with the backing of a powerful outside forces. I think that vanguardism is objectively narcissist.

    Fascism has no appealing models – Spanish people, for example, were glad to move beyond comparatively mild Franco. It’s common for the few communists remaining in the U.S. to plead that it wasn’t done right. After a few dozen failures, almost no one believes that excuse (I’ve heard the same from libertarians about failed privatizations – it wasn’t done right). Fascism has been tried in several varieties. The quite bad aspects of those experiences you ascribe to policy error rather than as a consequence of the central features of the doctrine. Why would any ordinary person, risking everything, believe your claim that it would work well because this time it will be done right? It seems to me that you succumb to the no true Scotsman fallacy.

    At the root of all ideologies, no matter how ‘rational’ or ‘intellectual’, is the centrality of the struggle for power. This is why the so-called New Left became more obsessed with power than with justice. Or justice came to defined simply in terms of ‘empowerment’. Consider how feminists, Jews, and other groups come across as nihilistic in their concept of ‘justice’. According to feminists, ‘justice’ is women rising up the ladder and gaining more power. According to blacks, ‘racism’ is about power. So, it doesn’t matter if blacks do good or bad with power. To fight ‘racism’, they just need more power.

    Postmodern leftism does turn everything into power. Pure leftist Michels did the same thing and ended up groveling to Mussolini. The destination of those who take that turn is tyranny. I do feel like I’ve ended up in a dystopian timeline, where the left has gone from suicidal belief in the command economy to suicidal belief in open borders; funded by billionaire manipulators; and accompanied by worship of the CIA and FBI and celebration of purposeless wars against Iran, Russia, and beyond. This is plain at the moment from inspection of the servile eulogies of John McCain by Jesse Jackson, Bernard Sanders, and Ocasio-Cortez!

    The justice motivation is soft and seemingly weak. but it is innate too and is the ultimate motivator of social order and state legitimacy. Liberal nationalism is feasible.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Zumbuddi
  760. Wally says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hello, Chuck:

    check out:
    the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10078
    and don’t miss:
    1944 JAN KARSKI / KARSKY WARNS WORLD OF INCREDIBLE “QUICKLIME” AND IS BELIEVED: http://www.cwporter.com/karski.htm
    Regards.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  761. Wally says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Chuck,
    See my comment # 779 to your other post on Jan Karski.

    http://www.codoh.com

  762. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    said;
    “Keywords “treated in ways that proved lethal to at least several million”.
    Gas chamber, machinegun, typhus, forced labor , elements….simply does not matter.
    You pick up, say, Red Indians from USA now, put them into a couple of huge bulk carriers and ship them into “Screaming Sixties”. Disable all engines, lifeboats and such, lift the crews and leave those who survived the trip drifting there.
    No gas chambers, guns, forced labor. Just COLD and sickness.Some resourceful and lucky will probably even survive. Genocide?”

    Yawn. So you still can’t prove ‘millions of murdered Jews’.
    Still can’t refute the fact that the Germans did nothing worse than the Allies, less so actually.
    Throwing in Red Indians = more leftist PC silliness in the hopes of getting a few votes.
    Now try sucking up to blacks with Jesse Owens crap.

    http://www.codoh.com

  763. APilgrim says:

    The Mrs. & I watched the new movie, ‘Operation Finale’,

    Fairly good flick.

    Not many in the audience.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  764. Anonymous[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    They all believe in the false narrative.

    What does that narrative say?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  765. Them Guys says:
    @anonymous

    There is also a forum poster guy called Archivist at website of SHTF dot com….He has been literally copying down every possible bit of info, movies, songs, famous quotes, books, entire monthly magazine series, etc. etc. And has archived it all on dozens and dozens, maybe a hundred or more computers and extra hard drives. It began as his hobby, turned into a thriving business where peoples and companies pay him for various old or difficult to locate infos. This guy says he has needed to invest in an addition built on his home as an office of sorts in order to house his vast pile of archived infos….Like a mini Library of Congress. Last I read from him at that forum, a year or longer ago, he said he now has over 40,000 songs and 30,000+ movies on file. Plus countless numbers of newspaper editions, magazine editions and etc. All copied from begin to end last words.

    His main reason being that he figures sooner or later soviet commie tactics are going to mandate an end of all free speech or end to all websites like UZ et al. Or at least and end of All forms of infos related to factual or truthful infos. So if such happens, his plan is for hopefully someone in the future will discover his vast hoards of copied info etc. And be able to reconstruct the facts and truths after they have been silenced and locked away from avg peoples eyes and ears. Makes perfect sense eh. A very wise and swell plan and he now earns a tidy profit as a side business from it too.

    • Replies: @utu
  766. utu says:
    @Zumbuddi

    I am sorry but I know nothing about what was going on in Iran during WWI and WWII.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  767. @CanSpeccy

    @CanSpeccy

    If, however, the Holocaust deniers, are denying that any substantial number of Jews were robbed of their civil rights or caused to die prematurely by virtue solely of the fact of their being Jewish, then to be in the least bit plausible they need to provide a compelling rebuttal of the authorities who have claimed otherwise.

    It seems you won’t ever get a straight answer about that from Wally. Just like I wouldn’t expect him to condemn the Nazi policy of ausrottung, even in its supposedly less heinous translation as “extirpation” (as opposed to “extermination”). We can pretty much guess why. As you and other posters have already pointed out, his refusal to make any condemnation of Nazi practices plays directly into Zioniist hands.

  768. @Wally

    Hey Wally,
    … Will peruse codah sources on Jan Karski, & as I see you’re very busy here, thanks very much for taking time to answer my question.
    … Nonetheless, perhaps due to Karski’s notoriety being diminished these days & his role being less important to codah, maybe you missed my point? Will explain again & then go off to a local Italian joint for supper.
    … Prologue: An original hardcover copy of “The Secret State” (1945) is not easy to obtain. To reiterate, at the U. of Scranton library, I did!
    … The original book emphasized that a sneaky military “pal” helped Karski suit-up in a Latvian soldier’s uniform and he managed to get inside the “OSWIECUM”
    (Auschwitz) extermination camp. All Karski had to do was never try & speak whatever language Latvians speak to any German camp guards! Or else, logically, he’d stutter, get arrested.
    … Will state this once more, Wally, & go to eat spaghetti & meatballs, down a Miller Lite: Eh-hem, in the original hard cover book, Karski specifically described sneaking into “Oswiecum” & not merely calling it a Jewish Ghetto as other sources including codah do.
    … That’s all, Wally, am not going to make a Zio-Federal Case out of this matter — thanks, & naz drowie!

  769. L.K says:
    @utu

    What an idiot you are!

    There is no limit to your breathtaking imbecility and intellectual dishonesty!

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  770. utu says:
    @Them Guys

    In 1990’s there was a site that I think wa run by a Ukrainian out of Canada that compiled all news about crimes and shenanigans involving Jews. Forgot the name of it. Tribal something? Unfortunately it was taken down.

  771. Art says:
    @peterAUS

    Keywords “treated in ways that proved lethal to at least several million”. (dead WWII Jews)

    55,000,000 people died in WWII. The legacy of 53,000,000 of those dead folks – is peace. No bloody wars with Germany and Japan.

    That can not be said of the Jews – their legacy is one of endless wars and death.

    Shame Shame on the Jew. Kudos to Germany and Japan.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. Shame on you peterAUS – for cheering on the Jews – helping them carry on their seventy year destructive legacy.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  772. Anon[113] • Disclaimer says:

    Unz’s pyramid of lies has been fully debunked.

  773. iffen says:

    helping them carry on their seventy year destructive legacy

    Only 70 years Arts? Get with the program.

  774. iffen says:
    @Anon

    You can’t debunk Unz.

    The neo-Nazis have the debunking oil market wrapped up tight and have for years, and they certainly won’t sell any to you.

  775. Anon[113] • Disclaimer says:

    > You can’t debunk Unz.

    It has already happened, see above.

  776. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @cassandra

    That someone like Hitler, with a great deal of courage, conviction, intelligence and ruthlessness, adopting a hardline policy would be perfectly understandable. Understandable perhaps, but with disastrously arrogant consequences.

    Hitler had some positive, even admirable, qualities as John Lukacs has noted.

    But the inner-core of his personality was megalomaniacal, pathological, and profoundly arrogant. Mao had the same problem. There was greatness there but also madness, and the nutty side eventually won out.
    That kind of personality is okay in art. Sam Peckinpah made some great films. But it’s dangerous in politics because you’re not dealing with fictional characters or actors but with real peoples and nations. And Hitler turned the world into a Wagnerian opera. When the world falls in GOTTERDAMMERUNG, it is spectacular and thrilling. When entire cities get destroyed, it is hell on earth.

    In the end, Hitler was bound to fail as a nationalist because his vision-thing was too big. Once he restored order in Germany, he got bored. He wanted to play for bigger stakes, and he kept on pushing and pushing. It went from nationalism to imperialism, and it made so many enemies of non-Germans.

  777. @Anonymous

    ‘…Besides , from 1942 to 1945, certainly at Auschwitz, but probably overall, more Jews were
    killed by so-called ” natural” causes than by “unnatural” ones…’

    This is of interest, and in a less charged and censorious atmosphere, it would be a subject for rational discussion.

    It seems to me the significance is limited. After all, the Nazis did away with three million Russian P.O.W.’s simply by penning them them in open fields and letting them starve to death. This doesn’t somehow make them less culpable; not do I see why allowing Jews to die of starvation and disease in the Warsaw Ghetto is somehow not a crime while transferring them to Treblinka and gassing them is.

    I’ll also note the author merely says that ‘probably’ more Jews died this way than through gassing and shooting. He only makes an unqualified claim for Auschwitz.

    I’m actually inclined to agree — as far as Auschwitz goes. My suspicion is that it functioned primarily as a labor camp — albeit a singularly deadly one — for most of its career. I think its primary function shifted to extermination only with the 1944 extermination of the Hungarian Jews.

    Note that this gets us to the one million deaths customarily attributed to Auschwitz quite easily. Perhaps half a million were worked to death or died of disease, then another half million (mostly Hungarian Jews and mostly in 1944) were gassed.

    As I noted earlier, one of the elements that clouds the picture is Auschwitz and the questionable reasons it has been given such prominence. I’m entirely willing to grant that Auschwitz could have been almost anything at all; it doesn’t alter the overall picture much.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
  778. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @New Dealer

    To summarize, not to assert, I strongly reject fascism. Additionally, I think it is infeasible.

    I oppose the forms of fascism in the 2oth century. But I go with neo-fascism because I think fascism is like race-ism. Everyone really is a fascist-at-heart, just like everyone really notices racial differences. Even anti-fascists are sub-fascist. Look at their real motives and actions, and it’s just another form of fascism. Same thing with ‘anti-racists’. They claim to fight ‘white supremacism’ but only support black supremacism or Jewish supremacism.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  779. Wally says:
    @Anon

    There is nothing there which “debunks” Ron Unz. Zero, donut.

    But you certainly are giving Revisionism & Ron Unz a lot of publicity. LOL
    Good job!!

    from comment #429 of this thread, see the ‘holocaust controversies’ Zionists crushed:

    Indeed, the ‘Holocaust Controversies’ boys have simply been crushed, see:
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en
    and more:
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, Book Review, By Friedrich Jansson: https://codoh.com/library/document/3233/?lang=en
    plus:
    European Jews into the Occupied Eastern Territories, 1941-1944, by Thomas Kues: https://codoh.com/library/document/3207/?lang=en
    and:
    Patrick Desbois and the “Mass Graves” of Jews in Ukraine, by Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/3433/?lang=en
    and:
    Outdoor Incineration of Livestock Carcasses, by Heinrich Köchel : https://codoh.com/library/document/3361/?lang=en
    and:
    Belzec or the Holocaust Controversy of Roberto Muehlenkamp, by Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/975/?lang=en
    and tons more here:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=holocaust+controversies&fid%5B0%5D=2

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  780. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Why can’t China do something sane like forcing bakers to make ‘gay wedding cakes’?

    Btw, it looks all that migration to boost Diversity in Xinjiang isn’t so pleasant to the natives there.

    Mass Migration = Imperialism. Will Uighurs become Palestinianized?

  781. @Zumbuddi

    ‘In WWI approx. 30 million Iranians died in famine brought about by British control over Iranian crops and resources, and in WWII thousands of Irsnians died as Allies careened recklessly in Iranian towns and cities.’

    That one made me smile.

    I won’t bother to question British brutality, etc in World War One.

    But I assure you there weren’t thirty million Iranians to begin with in 1914. The British couldn’t have starved that many to death.

    Ironically, it was World War Two that had the real famine — and you missed it. The Russians made off with the entire wheat harvest in the sector they controlled in 1943, leading to the deaths of a million Iranians.

  782. crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    The shitty kind that ends up killing their own family. So, like you.

    • Replies: @Wally
  783. Wally says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Garbage in garbage out, there was no previous one.

    But still, recall Jews claiming so since at least 1823.

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    – Elie Wiesel

    http://www.codoh.com

  784. @Anon

    Hey anonymous # 113,
    As to identification of the geographical location of the “pyramid of lies,” you nutz-it up! To help guide you there, please refer to the video below?

    • Replies: @Anon
  785. Anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    > I’m actually inclined to agree — as far as Auschwitz goes. My suspicion is that it functioned primarily as a labor camp

    Actually Birkenau functioned primarily as an extermination camp, albeit not without other functions.

    > Note that this gets us to the one million deaths customarily attributed to Auschwitz quite easily. Perhaps half a million were worked to death or died of disease, then another half million (mostly Hungarian Jews and mostly in 1944) were gassed.

    They weren’t, since the workers were *registered* in the camp, and we have good estimates of how many died there. Most Auschwitz victims never became its inmates in the first place.

    Which is why Arno Mayer’s claim is such arrant nonsense.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
  786. Anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > There is nothing there which “debunks” Ron Unz. Zero, donut.

    Actually Unz’s lies have been debunked and you’ve been unable to respond. Nice.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wally
  787. crimson2 says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Nobody at this open, runny sore of a website is interested in historical accuracy. Ron Unz’s historians also write treatises on crop circles and “Newton’s Forgotten Lunar Theory.” His commenters are celibate, grey-dicked miserable sacks of shit who write hundreds of thousands of words about how the Jews are oppressing them in comments sections across the syphilitic taint of the internet. Ron is an anti-semitie with the charisma of an ebola outbreak who would believe any moronic book he read as long as it blamed the Jews for something bad. I expect that David Icke could get Ron to write 35,000 words on the lizard man theory of history if David would just tell him that the lizard men are circumcised and have the surname Goldberg.

    Just know, as you and you lonely and impotent buddies are fondling your Reich memorabilia–your Eva Braun piss bottles and your Klaus Barbie nipple clamps–that you will always be laughingstock losers. Sure, one of you nutjobs will strangle a poor woman who won’t touch your diseased genitals every now and then, but that will literally be the most powerful your movement will ever be again. If you don’t believe me, start wearing your swastika panties out on the street. You will be quickly disabused of any notion of a comeback. Your most consequential future victory will probably be the next blackhead you successfully excise from your liver-spotted skin.

    But continue to play dumb. It suits you. It’s the tactic of a corpse. Very fitting.

  788. Anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    > As to identification of the geographical location of the “pyramid of lies,” you nutz-it up!

    Right above you.

  789. Anon[147] • Disclaimer says:
    @P.J. Collins

    > Initially it was 6 million Jews gassed to death at Auschwitz. Then 4 million.

    It wasn’t. You may find stray ignorant claims to this end, but this has never constituted a historical consensus. This includes the official 4m number (which was not claimed by the Museum to be the number of *Jews*), which most Western historians did not take seriously.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  790. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @annamaria

    The above article explains in a very clear manner how those who try to “provide a compelling rebuttal,”

    No it doesn’t. That is the point. The only mention the article makes of Solzhenitsyn, relates to the role of Jews in the Soviet Government. It says nothing whatever about Sozhenitsyn’s report on numerous massacres of Jews on what became Soviet territory.

    So to repeat what I said before:

    In evaluating the evidence of the Holocaust, some comment on Solzhenitsyn’s claim, which seem to corroborate Hilberg’s conclusion that most killings of Jewish civilians during WW2 were by open-air shootings in Eastern Europe, would have been of interest. Solzhenitsyn’s numbers more or less match Hilberg’s, so are we to suppose that both a life-long Jewish scholar of the Holocaust and a Nobel Prize winning novelist are both completely deluded? If not, how can the Holocaust, i.e, the direct or instigated murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis be so easily dismissed?

    In fact, without evaluating the evidence presented by Solzhenitsyn and Hilberg, there is really no credible case made at all.

  791. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    LENGTHY, select ‘more’ if necessary.
    said:
    “It seems to me the significance is limited. After all, the Nazis did away with three million Russian P.O.W.’s simply by penning them them in open fields and letting them starve to death. This doesn’t somehow make them less culpable; not do I see why allowing Jews to die of starvation and disease in the Warsaw Ghetto is somehow not a crime while transferring them to Treblinka and gassing them is.”

    There is no proof that ‘3M Soviet Communist POWs were murdered‘, none. That’s why you have not produced it.

    Jews were not allowed to ‘starve & intentionally die of disease’, there is no proof. That’s why you have not produced it.

    Jews were not gassed at Treblinka and there is no proof they were, the claim is scientifically impossible. That’s why you have not produced it.

    There are an alleged 900,000 Jew remains said to be at Treblinka. That claim equals 10 times the Los Angeles Coliseum capacity shown here:The alleged remains do not exist.

    said:
    “I’ll also note the author merely says that ‘probably’ more Jews died this way than through gassing and shooting. He only makes an unqualified claim for Auschwitz.”

    There we go, desperately moving the goal posts again. LOL

    said:
    “Note that this gets us to the one million deaths customarily attributed to Auschwitz quite easily. Perhaps half a million were worked to death or died of disease, then another half million (mostly Hungarian Jews and mostly in 1944) were gassed.”

    There are claimed immense human remains at Auschwitz, ca. 1,100,000, yet they are not there. – Notice that you cannot tell us how the impossible yet alleged ‘gas chambers’ worked.

    For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at:
    http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    – recommended: ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ slapped silly lies about their Hungarian Jews lies: http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944
    by Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
    Most of them were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever.

    Juergen Graf : The Fate of Unregistered Auschwitz Inmates

    http://www.codoh.com

  792. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Art

    Shame on you peterAUS – for cheering on the Jews – helping them carry on their seventy year destructive legacy.

    Don’t talk rubbish. What were discussing is historical fact — specifically whether the Nazis deprived Jews of their civil rights in ways that were lethal to millions. The question is not whether Jews, in their collective endeavors, have been, or are presently, good for the world. That is another and perhaps more important question. But it is not the question that Unz’s article addresses.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @peterAUS
    , @Art
  793. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Poor redneck Zionist, bested in debate and you can only mumble incoherent comments. LOL
    recommended:
    Jewish ‘Survivors’ of Auschwitz-Birkenau / not what we’re told, by John Wear
    Inconvenient History, v. 10, n.2, 2018
    http://inconvenienthistory.com/10/2/5482

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  794. phil says:
    @Wally

    When the Germans entered the USSR, a lot of Russians and Ukrainians wanted to join the Germans, so it wasn’t so much a case of going with the “devil you know;” there was ample reason for preferring the Germans. On the other hand, the Jewish press continuously portrayed the Soviets in a much more positive way.

    • Replies: @Wally
  795. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    said:
    “What were discussing is historical fact — specifically whether the Nazis deprived Jews of their civil rights in ways that were lethal to millions.”

    So that explains why you have completely failed to produce proof. Talk is cheap, CanSpeccy.

    According to your Jews, THIS is “historical fact”:
    Jews have been pushing their ‘6,000,000’ lie since at least 1823:
    https://imgur.com/a/0LFFF and: http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    http://www.codoh.com

  796. utu says:
    @crimson2

    Deborah Lipstadt, is that you?

  797. APilgrim says:

    ‘The Promise’ a movie about the circa-1915 Turkish Slaughter of Armenians was a better flick than ‘OPERATION FINALE’ the recent movie about the capture of Adolf Eichmann by the Mossad.

    I wonder if there will ever be a movie about the GSWA slaughter, and if any Jews will attend? Germany’s colonisation of Namibia, then German South West Africa (GSWA), encompasses one of the worst atrocities ever: the genocide of between 60,000 and 100000 indigenous Herero people at the beginning of the twentieth century. Tens of thousands of people—men, women and children—were killed in a very short period of time. Water wells were sealed and poisoned to prevent access to water. Thousands, including women and children were condemned to slavery in the German military and civil institutions, as well as for private companies and on German farms. Surviving Herero women were forced to become ‘comfort women’.

    Nazi crimes of World War II were not an aberration, as some have claimed, but emerged from a tradition deeply embedded in the heart of German culture, with its warped beliefs about racial superiority, going back into the 19th century. Hitler hadn’t been born when the German flag was raised in 1883 on the coast of South-West Africa (as Namibia was then known) – the first conquest of Germany’s African empire. Significantly, the first Imperial Commissioner was Heinrich Goering, father of Herman Goering, later Field Marshal of the Luftwaffe and the most powerful Nazi after the Fuhrer.

  798. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    I think you missed the point of the original comment which was about the motivation which should most concern us: a one off or occasional pragmatic surge for material strength or set of inarguably hate or contempt fuelled values that could be seen as natural for any lot of madmen forever.

  799. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    said:
    “Hilberg’s conclusion that most killings of Jewish civilians during WW2 were by open-air shootings in Eastern Europe”

    You mean Hilberg, the Zionist who was trashed in court? see:
    fraudulent historian Hilberg exposed in court: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=100
    the court transcript is devastating

    See comment #231 in this thread. The laughable ‘holocaust by bullets’ is savaged.
    quick example:

    Per their alleged ‘Holocaust by bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

  800. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Your contribution is gravely undermined by that cheap internet bloggers use of “lies”.
    Apart from the illiteracy there is a factual problem about anyone accusing Ron Unz of deliberately telling untruths – aka lies. He doesn’ lie.

    • Replies: @Anon
  801. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Actually Birkenau functioned primarily as an extermination camp, albeit not without other functions.

    There were approx 300 barracks in Birkenau that could house total of 100,000 inmates. And often they did. People housed there were assigned to different work details going outside the camp and inside the camp. Some sections were quarantine were thousands of inmates were kept to contain epidemics. There were long time periods of time when according to the official record and narrative no gassing were talking place while the camp was full of inmates. The story of Auschwitz/Birkenau is full of contradictions. No simple narrative can fit all the stories. So your statement that it was primarily an extermination camp is not really true.

    • Replies: @Anon
  802. peterAUS says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What were discussing is historical fact — specifically whether the Nazis deprived Jews of their civil rights in ways that were lethal to millions. The question is not whether Jews, in their collective endeavors, have been, or are presently, good for the world. That is another and perhaps more important question. But it is not the question that Unz’s article addresses.

    You are aware, I assume, that this topic is actually just a personality test.

    The article about multipolar world…25 comments…”The Russian peace threat”….52 comments….”Trump caves to the enemy of the people”…84 comments.
    That about surveillance state…27.
    Next financial crisis article…65 comments.

    And this one, so far…812.

    That’s all you need to know.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  803. Wally says:
    @Anon

    See my comment #684 in this thread for a very lengthy list of the ever changing fake Auschwitz numbers, and much more.

    also see the long list here: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=faurisson&t=5631&sf=msgonly

    http://www.codoh.com

  804. Wally says:
    @phil

    Of course the Jewish Press did, and Ron Unz confirmed.

    They were running the Communist slaughter house.

    Recall Walter Duranty praising comunism in the NYT.

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  805. Anonymous[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @crimson2

    You sound very, very scared.

    🙂

  806. Zumbuddi says:
    @New Dealer

    IMHO a forthright didcussion of Mussolini Fascism that employs academic jargon, like Leftist and Postmodern, but fails to give full treatment to Itsly’s unique history and intense relationship with Roman Catholicism, is fatally flawed.

    Fascism was envisioned for Italy, and drew on the Catholic psyche that was an integral part of Italian life. Fascism was not a sterile, or universalist, intellectual abstraction.

  807. Wally says:
    @APilgrim

    said:
    “I wonder if there will ever be a movie about the GSWA slaughter, and if any Jews will attend? Germany’s colonisation of Namibia, then German South West Africa (GSWA), encompasses one of the worst atrocities ever: the genocide of between 60,000 and 100000 indigenous Herero people at the beginning of the twentieth century. Tens of thousands of people—men, women and children—were killed in a very short period of time. Water wells were sealed and poisoned to prevent access to water. Thousands, including women and children were condemned to slavery in the German military and civil institutions, as well as for private companies and on German farms. Surviving Herero women were forced to become ‘comfort women’. ”

    Another real Zionist production yawner.
    As usual, more German bashing with no proof whatsoever. Debunked here: Germany’s other fake “genocide”: Namibia:
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10612
    and:
    Hererocaust, Holocaust through the B(l)ackdoor: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8099
    said
    “Nazi crimes of World War II were not an aberration, as some have claimed, but emerged from a tradition deeply embedded in the heart of German culture”.

    Yep, the Herero lie is an attempt to buy black votes for the fake ‘6M Jews’ and convince the no-free-speech Germans of fake guilt & into forking over more cash.

    Here’s the proof. 2 skulls from who knows where, who knows when?http://www.codoh.com

  808. Anonymous[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    This particular topic is both important and forbidden. That’s all you need to know.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  809. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    Hey, Peter,

    Got that proof of your ‘millions of murdered Jews’ to show us yet?

    What are you waiting for? This is your big chance.

    Isn’t free speech grand?

    http://www.codoh.com

  810. annamaria says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You are not an honest commenter. Moreover, you are a committed defender of the Jewish power-promoted activities against such important achievements of western civilization as the freedom of information and freedom of speech.

    Somehow you are blind to the most important segment of the above article: “… many thousands of individuals are currently serving time across Europe for Holocaust Denial.” – What do you not understand about this horrifying statement? — The academic research has become dangerous because the zionists want to protect the extortionist practices of “eternal victims.”

    “Butz was a respectable tenured professor at Northwestern, and the release of his book laying out the Holocaust Denial case soon became a minor sensation… Jewish donors and Jewish activists quickly mobilized, attempting to have Butz fired for his heretical views…

    “Robert Faurisson, a professor of literature at the University of Lyons-2, began expressing his public skepticism about the Holocaust during the 1970s … Faurisson stuck to his opinions, but attacks persisted, including a brutal beating by Jewish militants that hospitalized him, while a French political candidate espousing similar views was assassinated.”

    “In the early 1960s Stanford historian David Hoggan produced his anonymous manuscript The Myth of the Six Million, but once it got into circulation and his identity became known, his academic career was destroyed.”

    “David Irving had ranked as the world’s most successful World War II historian, with his books selling in the millions amid glowing coverage in the top British newspapers when he agreed to appear as an expert witness at the Zundel trial. … He was quickly subjected to unrelenting media attacks, which first severely damaged and then ultimately destroyed his very illustrious publishing career, and he later even served time in an Austrian prison for his unacceptable views.

    “Dr. Germar Rudolf was a successful young German chemist working at the prestigious Max Planck Institute … he published the results as the Chemistry of Auschwitz … Rudolf suffered the destruction of his career and his marriage, and since Germany treats these matters in harsher fashion, he eventually served five years in prison for his scientific impudence.”

    “Most recently, Dr. Nicholas Kollerstrom, who had spent eleven years as a historian of science on the staff of University College, London, suffered this same fate in 2008. His scientific interests in the Holocaust provoked a media firestorm of vilification, and he was fired with a single day’s notice, becoming the first member of his research institution ever expelled for ideological reasons.”

    And here is this context for the deeply dishonest activities of the vicious dogs of Jewish Power: “Reports of the overwhelmingly Jewish leadership of the Russian Bolsheviks are mostly treated as bigotry and paranoia … the authors are constructing a morality-play in which the Jews must be portrayed as absolutely blameless victims, and even hinting at their role in the numerous Communist atrocities that long preceded the rise of the Third Reich might cause readers to consider both sides of the issue.”

    Your apologia for the ethnic zealots is disgusting. You have nothing to offer to refute my statement, “The above article explains in a very clear manner how those who try to “provide a compelling rebuttal,” and conduct an investigation of the Holo-mems, are hauled into prisons, dismissed from their jobs, and some even assaulted by the Jewish thugs from ADL and such.”

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  811. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    While you’re at it, please debunk the following comments and the figures and sources mentioned in them:

    https://www.unz.com/article/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486655

    https://www.unz.com/article/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486681

    The Wrong Family Holocaust Story: Survival of Polish Jews in Stalin’s Russia

    Ellen G. Friedman’s presentation centers on the largely unknown story of Polish Jews who were saved from Hitler by Stalin. This story is at the center of her new book, The Seven, A Family Holocaust Story. Of the 3.3 million Jews in Poland before WWII, only about 350,000 survived, most of them by being banished to remote areas in the USSR. The reasons for the obscurity of this Holocaust narrative relate to its being the “wrong” story. Not about concentration camps, this story was buried by historians and by Polish Jews, themselves, who felt they were low on the “hierarchy of victimhood.” Also, Cold War attitudes towards the Soviet Union discouraged those who wished to immigrate to the United States to expose where they were harbored. As this “wrong” Holocaust story, a story mainly of survival, makes its way into the larger story, how will it affect the Holocaust narrative.

    Russia Helped 1,750,000 Jews to Escape Nazis, Says James N. Rosenberg

    July 2, 1943

    Emphasizing that he based his estimate of those saved on facts gathered by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Mr. Rosenberg quoted the organization’s journal as reporting that “of some 1,750,000 Jews who succeeded in escaping the Axis since the outbreak of hostilities, about 1,600,000 were evacuated by the Soviet Government from Eastern Poland and subsequently occupied Soviet territory and transported far into the Russian interior and beyond the Urals. About 150,000 others managed to reach Palestine, the United States, and other countries beyond the seas.”

    https://www.jta.org/1943/07/02/archive/russia-helped-1750000-jews-to-escape-nazis-says-james-n-rosenberg and http://pdfs.jta.org/1943/1943-07-02_153.pdf?_ga=2.8910519.30983551.1535680808-135797649.1535441434 and http://archive.is/dorwq

    • Replies: @Anon
  812. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:

    Also, Cold War attitudes towards the Soviet Union discouraged those who wished to immigrate to the United States to expose where they were harbored.

    Doesn’t make any sense.

  813. peterAUS says:
    @Anonymous

    This particular topic is both important and forbidden.

    Former, obviously, for majority of posters and, quite likely, readers, here. Say…..80 %.

    That’s all you need to know.

    Mmm……

    I just have a vague feeling there is an inside joke around here.

  814. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    The article about multipolar world…25 comments…”The Russian peace threat”….52 comments….”Trump caves to the enemy of the people”…84 comments.
    That about surveillance state…27.
    Next financial crisis article…65 comments.

    At least three of these four situations has the Holocaust as one of their premises.

  815. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Hilberg’s conclusion that most killings of Jewish civilians during WW2 were by open-air shootings in Eastern Europe,

    Have any of the bodies been exhumed?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  816. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    said:
    “Actually Birkenau functioned primarily as an extermination camp, albeit not without other functions.”

    No it didn’t, there is absolutely no proof of such an impossible claim.

    It’s claimed that there are ca. 1,100,000 Jew remains at Auschwitz, but they are not there.

    See summary of debunking points about Auschwitz: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=chose&t=11716&sf=

    For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at: http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    In the future, please actually read posts in this thread. Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  817. @annamaria

    An important (and frightening) list, annamaria! I am sure that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and a comprehensive list may fill a whole book.

  818. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    This includes the official 4m number (which was not claimed by the Museum to be the number of *Jews*), which most Western historians did not take seriously.

    Why didn’t Western historians take it seriously?

  819. If my memory serves me right, there were 52 operating ovens operating nonstop 24/7 for years.

    How long does it take to cremate a cadaver in a modern oven and at what temperature?

    How long does the procedure take?

    Because they only do one cremation at a time in each retort — that’s what the cremation machine is called, a retort — from start to finish, it’s about three hours. The body is placed into the retort, which is 1600 degrees at three hours. After the three hours is up, the cremated remains are actually too hot to handle. There’s actually a cooling period before they can be handled and processed into a fine consistency before they’re returned back to the family. The process is quite complex and takes a little bit of time.

    Do the math for yourselves.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @bj
    , @crimson2
  820. T. Weed says:

    In the Jewish Forward of July 30, 2015: This Baby Was Born in Auschwitz–and Survived. Journalist Sergiusz Scheller names that survivor as Barbara Puc and states that Barbara was among thousands of babies born at the “death camp”, and the mothers were given extra rations of milk and scarce rations. Ah, but soon after the babies were born, mothers and babies were gas chambered. What were those Germans, known in Hollywood films for brutal efficiency, thinking! Thousands born! What a waste of resources, not to mention the diapers and screaming babies.

  821. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talmudic Follower

    There’s actually a cooling period before they can be handled and processed into a fine consistency before they’re returned back to the family.

    How long does the processing take? Does it require special machinery?

    Has it occurred to you that they may have foregone the processing part of this and just disposed of the ash as it was?

    • Replies: @Talmudic Follower
  822. @crimson2

    Impressive piece of projection there. The sexual imagery is a sure give-away.

  823. @CanSpeccy

    The number of victims of mass shootings was in the 100K’s range, not 1M’s, so if this is indeed the majority of Jewish deaths as you seem to claim, it’s really not clear what your point is.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  824. @APilgrim

    Whether it’s an entertaining movie or not, it’s historical crap as Eichmann’s whereabouts were known to all the major intelligence services long before the Israelis nabbed him.

    http://www.gabyweber.com/dwnld/artikel/EICHMANN%20DLF%20ENGL.pdf

    Not sure why he was brought in when he was, but it was some kind of ruse to cover an asset. Which explains his ludicrous testimony at his trial.

  825. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    ARMY SEES INFLUX OF 3,000,000 JEWS; Tells Newspaper Executives in Germany That Refugees Have Created Grave Problem

    JUNE 24, 1946

    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/1946/06/24/archives/army-sees-influx-of-3000000-jews-tells-newspaper-executives-in.html

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2392160

    Please, explain or debunk the above and the below:

    According to the 1940 report by Karski mentioned above, there was a transit camp at Belzec in December 1939. Its purpose was to hold Jews who were trying to cross from the German Zone of Occupation into the Soviet (at least 300,000 Jews from the German Zone made that crossing in the months after the German conquest of Poland).

    The physical location of the Belzec camp right next to the Lublin-Lemberg mainline is ideally suited to a function as a transit camp, with persons making the transit between the German and Soviet zones able to get off the trains on which they arrived, wait at the camp, and get back on a train when the time for their departure arrived.

    https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49187&start=30 Archived link: http://archive.is/OvFZu
    […]
    It is reliably estimated that more than a million** refugees escaped to Russia. However many came they were still well received. But – where was this great mass of people to go? A small part, particularly those with a trade, have already been moved to the interior of Russia.
    […]
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/escape-of-jews-from-poland-to-the-soviet-union Archived link: http://archive.is/d5tsE

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2395448

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
    , @Colin Wright
  826. Bukowski says:

    Fred Leuchter of the report that bears his name copped flak from some quarters for not being a registered engineer. But Walter Luftl came to the same conclusion as Leuchter and he is not only an engineer he was president of the Austrian Engineers Association.
    https://codoh.com/library/document/2383/

  827. @crimson2

    think this through, Crimson2,

    very carefully:

    almost everywhere in Europe and the Anglosphere, people are being arrested by armed, uniformed employees of the State, tried, convicted, and jailed for years

    because they questioned this or that aspect of the Holocaust narrative.

    factual narratives don’t need coercion to survive.

    lies do.

    • Replies: @Wally
  828. RudyM says:
    @Colin Wright

    However, there is the detail that Holocaust did happen. People can create all the semantic and rhetorical castles they please — it happened.

    Actually, no, that’s what’s under debate here: whether or not the Holocaust, as it has come to be defined for legal purposes in parts of Europe, actually happened. To quote Paul Eisen:

    Holocaust revisionism or ‘denial’ if you like is confined to three main contentions in the typical Holocaust narrative, namely:

    That there ever was an official plan on the part of Hitler or the National Socialist regime to systematically and physically exterminate every Jew in Europe.
    That there existed homicidal gas-chambers.
    That the number of Jewish victims was around six million.

    Having examined all these contentions and found them questionable to say the least, it seems to me that a Holocaust revisionist (denier, if you like) is an entirely honorable thing to be. So why should I rush to deny that I am one?

    https://www.righteousjews.org/article27a.html

    Incidentally, I think people who say that discussing the Holocaust at length is a bore, are themselves bores. (I believe you said something like that earlier.)

    I think you mistook me earlier for belonging to whatever your party is, so to speak; but it’s nice that you at least aren’t arguing in favor of censorship. I don’t believe passenger jets hit any of their alleged targets on 9/11 either, because I’ve actually looked into it at some length. I deny the holy footage! I don’t believe the Michael “you’ll have to talk to my lawyers” Hezarkhani footage shows an actual plane crash. That Shanksville crash site. So convincing! So please, count me among the hopelessly mad.

    • Replies: @Reisen
  829. @Wally

    Holocaust HOAX is based almost entirely on TORTURE!

    Actually, it was Rudolf Vrba’s hearsay evidence, which was given “judicial notice” i.e. treated as fact that provided the path for the torture extracted evidence to follow.
    Vrba was completely discredited in the Zundel trials. A summation of the trials’ testimony is here:
    https://www.historiography-project.com/books/faurisson-on-the-holocaust/auschwitz-witnesses.php

    • Replies: @Wally
  830. @Anon

    Can you provide the notes of your interview with Hitler upon which your clinical diagnosis is based?

    As for being bored and playing for bigger stakes:

  831. bj says:
    @Talmudic Follower

    Holocaust By The Numbers

    Assume the cool down is an hour, that is four hours for cremation of the Jewish corpse. That is 6 per oven times 52 ovens equals 312 Jews exterminated per day. Multiple 312 Jewish corpses time 365 days per year equals 113,880 Jews exterminated per year.

    The war lasted five years so that is 569,400 Jews exterminated and cremated by the efficient German genocide specialists. The number sounds about right for the number of Jews exterminated in the famous Hollywood Holocaust.

    It would take 52.68 years to exterminate the mystical 6,000,000 Jews. Wow! No wonder there is so many survivors. The German government paid reparations to 6,000,000 named Hollywood Holocaust survivors. The Germans must not be very good at mathematics.

    They way over paid reparations for the Hollywood Holocaust!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Colin Wright
    , @j2
  832. @Anonymous

    If you visit modern day cremation, they mostly state that it takes 2-3 hours at 1600 degrees to cremate one cadaver. Can you actually not use common sense and determine that those ovens were operating 24/7 with a constant supply of coke, burning continuously is what they want you to believe. Did all the ovens not require maintenance, cleaning out the ashes, cooling down and start up again. If the allies were bombing german supply lines how did all that coke get to the camps? How many cadavers were cremated at the same time? How do you dispose of the ash when the crematorium were so hot?

  833. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Even more on Jews everywhere:

    Jews evacuated to USSR during war : https://archive.is/jA9iI
    and:
    more Jews evacuated to USSR during war
    https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees
    exc.:
    Since the outbreak of the war hundreds of thousands of Jews from Poland, Rumania and the Baltic countries have been given shelter in the U.S.S.R., and many of them were permitted to pass through Russia en route to the United States and to Palestine.

    http://www.codoh.com

  834. Reisen says:
    @RudyM

    ….because I’ve actually looked into it at some length. I deny the holy footage!

    And, pray tell, what ‘lengths’ did you go to to say such footage was faked? I assume you’re of the Hologram folks, or that there were no such planes?

  835. bj says:
    @crimson2

    Your rant confirms scientific studies that circumcision permanently alters the brain.

    http://circumcision.org/circumcision-permanently-alters-the-brain/

  836. Wally says:
    @Curmudgeon

    The ‘acclaimed’ charlatan Rudolf Vrba, totally debunked:

    “eyewitness” Rudolf Vrba: “what I heard it might look like”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9160

    Rudolf Vrba’s Lies Form Basis of “Auschwitz Gas Chamber” Story
    Peter Winter, author of “The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?” blows apart another ridiculous story. This concerning the ‘holocaust’ Industry’s biggie, Rudolf Vbra:
    see: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=68676

    http://www.codoh.com

  837. Wally says:
    @Anon

    except that:

    Responsibility for WW2′: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    and: https://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/
    and:

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    – so called “holocaust historian”, Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

  838. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Yawn.
    No they haven’t. Nothing to “respond” to.

    We see nothing of the kind, only your wishful thinking. LOL

    Go ahead, try to show us . Post it and learn.

    Still waiting for your proof of ‘millions of exterminated Jews’.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anon
  839. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talmudic Follower

    Okay, aside from your logistics argument, what of this consideration:

    We can probably take for granted that at least some cadavers were cremated, right? If so, where are the ashes? Maybe ashes are easily disposed of with little trace.

  840. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @bj

    How do we know there were only 52 ovens?

    • Replies: @j2
  841. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    It would be very helpful to know what has been done to locate the bodies and the ashes. Has any scholar or investigator pulled together all the forensics that were done?

    Have any surveys been performed? (Maybe Jewish law proscribes them.)

    Have there been exhumations? (Maybe Jewish law proscribes them.)

    Have any sites of ashes been located? We “know” (I assume”) that at least SOME cadavers were cremated during the period in question. If there are no traces of THOSE ashes, maybe ashes are a lot easier to dispose of than revisionists would have us believe.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  842. Art says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Don’t talk rubbish. What were discussing is historical fact — specifically whether the Nazis deprived Jews of their civil rights in ways that were lethal to millions.

    Hey man — why are you banging on the Germans – they have been good, doing peace after WWII.

    Why do you suck up to the Jews — after WWII for 70 years, they have done war things, dragging America into their Talmudist agenda.

    You are feeding Jew wrong doing – just prolonging WWII evil. Very dumb. Doing harm.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  843. Wally says:

    According to acclaimed & so called “holocaust eyewitness” Henryk Tauber, corpses could be cremated in 5-7 minutes. LOL
    If you question that in many countries you will be imprisoned.

    The facts about the absurd ‘holocaust’ cremation claims from the interrogations of Topf engineers by the Soviet SMERSH between 1946 and 1948, as were published by Gerald Fleming
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11893&p=89023&hilit=prufer+38#p89023

    Q: “How many bodies were cremated per hour at Auschwitz?”

    A: Prüfer (builder of the crematorium) responded:
    “In a crematory with 5 ovens and 15 muffles, fifteen bodies were cremated.”

    This means an average cremation time of one hour per body per muffle and indicates that the theoretical maximum capacity of Crematory IV (and each of the ovens of Crematory V as well) in a 24 hour period was 192 bodies.

    At his interrogation on 19th March 1946 Prüfer elaborated as follows:[28]

    “I have mentioned the enormous load to which the overtaxed ovens were subjected. I told Chief Engineer Sander I was worried about whether the ovens could withstand the excessive load. In my presence, two bodies were placed in one muffle, instead of a single body, and the ovens were unable to handle the load”

    – SS Kurt Prufer, told the officers of SMERSCH (according to documents found in the Moscow archives) that only one body at a time could be cremated per muffle and that the cremation time took 60 minutes, and that they tried to cremate 2 bodies at a time; but the temperature inside the muffle went so high that it damaged the oven.
    and:
    – There was a total 52 muffles of Auschwitz, never used simultaneously.

    – 38 is the most that were ever online simultaneously.

    – The 6 at Auschwitz I were taken out of action as soon as the new ones at Birkenau came online. These were in turn liable to long periods of breakdowns and even idleness.

    – If there was a program of mass extermination, the desperate need for cremation capacity is obvious. Why then put six muffles out of action?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  844. Wally says:
    @Talmudic Follower

    See my comment #860 in this thread for the facts on Auschwitz cremation capabilities.

    Like so may other ridiculous ‘holocaust’ assertions, the cremation claims within The Big Lie are scientifically, technically, and physically impossible.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

  845. Anonymous[101] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    In ‘Table Talk’, Hitler actually stressed that the War was a pain in the ass. He had all sorts of other things he was itching to do. He wanted the war over quickly, so he would have enough time to fulfil his other ambitions. And, yes, the ambitions were grandiose. He had a thousand years of ideas in his head, and he knew he had a limited amount of time to see them come to fruition.

  846. @Anon

    ‘…But I go with neo-fascism because I think fascism is like race-ism. Everyone really is a fascist-at-heart, just like everyone really notices racial differences…’

    But merely because we have an impulse doesn’t mean we should give way to it.

    Yes, fascism has its appeal. We can simply get rid of those who annoy us. If our nation wants something, we’ll take it. If something needs doing, no need to bother with legal procedure — just do it.

    However, it also means giving up on freedom of speech. It means you’d better conform, or you’re going where you won’t hear the dogs bark. It means no appeal to any court of justice. It means the police are there to beat the crap out of you if you squeak.

    These are all things that are threatened now — but to accept fascism is to make the threat a reality.

    It’s dull — but the truth is we don’t want fascism.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
    , @annamaria
  847. j2 says:
    @utu

    “From what I have learned from many sources there was no starvation in occupied Poland during the WWII. Obviously there was starvation in cordoned off Jewish ghettos.”

    This is also my understanding. I added the Poles there only because they were mentioned in the quote and the quote referred to some forced labor camp inmates. Poles could get food from country side and they sold food to Jews in ghettos, though it was illegal, so in ghettos Jews got some extra food this way. Forced laboreurs in farms were fed normally. Ghettos were liquidated because of diseases, they were too crowded. Starvation affected mostly concentration camps, and larger ones worst, and after bombings destroyed the infra, there was starvation as photos show.

    But of course, Germany started the attack on Poland. Hitler could have avoided the world war by not attacking Poland. Later, in 1941, he probably was forced to attack the SU first, but in 1939 he did not have to attack anywhere.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @L.K
  848. @APilgrim

    ‘…I wonder if there will ever be a movie about the GSWA slaughter, and if any Jews will attend? Germany’s colonisation of Namibia, then German South West Africa (GSWA), encompasses one of the worst atrocities ever: the genocide of between 60,000 and 100000 indigenous Herero people at the beginning of the twentieth century. Tens of thousands of people—men, women and children—were killed…’

    The difficulty is that aside from the fact that people were killed in both instances, I don’t see any particular similarity between the slaughter of the Herero and the Holocaust.

    I’d suggest the slaughter of the Herero can be more usefully seen as part and parcel of that wave of wholesale slaughter that accompanied what could be called ‘climax colonialism’ — when Europe was able to so easily transport large bodies of men equipped with extremely reliable and deadly weaponry — magazine rifles, machine guns — that wherever there was resistance, it was dealt with promptly, brutally, and finally.

    The Hereros did not die alone. At about the same time, the Belgians were carrying out horrific atrocities in the Congo Free State, I read some account of murderous goings-on in Dutch Guiana, the Italians were (attempting) to conquer Libya, the British were demonstrating the operation of the Maxim machine gun to the inhabitants of what was about to become Rhodesia, we found ourselves conducting a brutal war in the Philippines, and no doubt the French and Russians were slaughtering the inhabitants of some place or other.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  849. @Anon

    ‘Hitler had some positive, even admirable, qualities as John Lukacs has noted.

    But the inner-core of his personality was megalomaniacal, pathological, and profoundly arrogant. Mao had the same problem. There was greatness there but also madness, and the nutty side eventually won out…’

    Hitler had some decidedly unusual aspects to his personality — and his interaction with history turned out badly, to say the least.

    However, I’m not sure piling on the psychological terminology does much to clarify matters. I’d say anyone who seriously wants to begin to understand how Hitler functioned needs to start with Kubizek’s The Young Hitler I Knew, — which is much criticized, but I believe both essential reading and fundamentally honest.

  850. Reisen says:

    Reports of the overwhelmingly Jewish leadership of the Russian Bolsheviks are mostly treated as bigotry and paranoia, as are descriptions of the similar ethnic skew of America’s own Communist Party, let alone the heavy financial support of the Bolsheviks by Jewish international bankers. At one point, he dismisses the link between Jews and Communism in Germany by noting that “less than half” of the Communist Party leadership was Jewish; but since fewer than one in a hundred Germans came from that ethnic background, Jews were obviously over-represented among Communist leaders by as much as 5,000%.

    I figured this claim was going to arise, as it is a favourite among this neck of the woods. Later on in the article, Germar Rudolf is referenced, but not his IHR article on the very statistics concerning the leadership of the USSR. He shows that it was nowhere near 80%, but 30% (maximum estimate).

    The idea of ‘Jewish Bolshevism’ has persisted for over a century, and any detailed analysis of the figures and ethnic makeup of the USSR’s highest echelons are usually ignored or spat upon. Historians that have engaged into this ‘taboo’ topic are ignored or painted as Jewish apologists, despite the crux of their argument bearing weight (it seems referencing Jews is only as useful as any argument provides).

    The Jacob Schiff story is a popular one, as is the German banker theory where the Germans happily sicced the Jews on the Russians, which later emerged as the bloodiest state in history. Or so the story goes. Schiff’s daughter also married Max Warburg, who also helped run the Nazi bank. No mention is made of him in this article, despite the significance.

    There are official records of the NKVD leadership and the ethnic background of each member. It is clear it was not looked for in this article, despite Unz saying he loves to read good history books and looks at every footnote and source. There are no references at all to Sovietologists or the Soviet accounts of Auschwitz, which I will revisit later.

    And although Germans are notorious for their extreme bureaucratic precision, this immense wartime project was apparently implemented without benefit of a single written document, or at least no such document has ever been located.

    Rather strange, as it was said that the Germans, in their frenzy to complete the genocide (which didn’t happen) destroyed most of their records of Jews in the camps. Yet it also turns out that the Soviets had access to these documents, and still do, and turned them over to the Red Cross shortly after 1991. It was these documents that showed the actual extent of Auschwitz, and other sensitive information is still kept by the Russians. No reference is made to this, because it would undermine the ‘no written document’. It also undermines the German solution to the ‘Jewish Question’, because it would show them to have taken zero action against this enormous conspiracy against mankind.

    A similar process occurred in the Warsaw Pact satellites, even while the top Communist Party leadership of many of those countries often remained very heavily Jewish for some years.

    Kevin MacDonald and a few others are notorious for this, even though no books are cited or intelligence personnel referenced. In Bulgaria, Communist leadership wasn’t Jewish at all, whereas there / was/ considerable Jewish influence in Romania. In Poland, any Jewish leadership was replaced by Party pogroms (if they can be called that). In Russia’s case, Trotsky was forced to flee, Lenin was only 1/4 Jew (and anti Zionist), Stalin was not Jewish at all, and any tales of him with a gaggle of Jewesses is false (I am surprised that tidbit didn’t make it in here). Earlier it was said that Germany’s Communist party was 50% Jewish – an estimate – but aside from theorizing, there is a missed opportunity to cite authors who do – and do not – show this to be true.

    The obvious reason for this glaring omission is that the authors are constructing a morality-play in which the Jews must be portrayed as absolutely blameless victims, and even hinting at their role in the numerous Communist atrocities that long preceded the rise of the Third Reich might cause readers to consider both sides of the issue.

    Considering the audience of this website, such a debate is not new nor is it shocking. Everyone knows by now the ‘100 million dead’ meme, as well as Solzhenitsyn’s ‘200 Years Together’, referenced earlier in the article. What is not mentioned is that Solzhenitsyn, in Russia, is doubted as much as the Holocaust is (in this article). His work gave credence to the claim that 66 million white Russians died at the hands of the Jewish Bolsheviks, and millions more shoved into gulags. Evidence from archival sources detailing the gulag (yes, they exist). Here are some, though I suspect I’ll get heat from them being websites, and not respected scholars.

    http://www.x-libri.ru/elib/bushn000/00000014.htm

    http://warrax.net/81/stalin.html

    Meanwhile, all historians know perfectly well that the Bolshevik leaders were overwhelmingly Jewish, with three of the five revolutionaries Lenin named as his plausible successors coming from that background.

    Which ones? The ones funded by Hearst or British Intelligence? ‘Respected historians’ who looked at the ethnic question found that this wasn’t the case at all. As for Lenin’s contemporaries, aside from Trotsky, the Jews with him with half Jews or did not identify as Zionists. This tidbit was not mentioned whatsoever, presumably because it would confuse the audience. We don’t want that.

    Throughout most of the twentieth century, Jews and blacks had been close political allies in America, with the top leadership of the NAACP almost invariably being Jewish, as were nearly all of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s top white advisors and a very large fraction of the key white activists involved in the black Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s.

    Well, let’s see. Wikipedia, that ever reliable source, has an entire page on it.

    W.E.B. Du Bois – black
    Mary White Ovington – white
    Ida B. Wells – black
    Archibald Grimke – black
    Oswald Garrison Villard – German
    Henry Moskovitz – Jew

    That’s just a few. Let’s look at the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American%E2%80%93Jewish_relations

    Of note:

    In the early 1900s, Jewish newspapers drew parallels between the Black movement out of the South and the Jews’ escape from Egypt, pointing out that both Blacks and Jews lived in ghettos, and calling anti-Black riots in the South “pogroms”. Stressing the similarities rather than the differences between the Jewish and Black experience in America, Jewish leaders emphasized the idea that both groups would benefit the more America moved toward a society of merit, free of religious, ethnic and racial restrictions.[4]

    The American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, and the Anti-Defamation League were central to the campaign against racial prejudice. Jews made substantial financial contributions to many civil rights organizations, including the NAACP, the Urban League, the Congress of Racial Equality, and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. About 50 percent of the civil rights attorneys in the South during the 1960s were Jews, as were over 50 percent of the Whites who went to Mississippi in 1964 to challenge Jim Crow Laws.[4]

    Sounds like a done deal, but the only way to know for sure is to look at the hard sources.

    Indeed, one of the underlying sources of bitter Western conflict with Vladimir Putin’s Russia seems to be that he has restored Christianity to a favored place in a society where the early Bolsheviks had once dynamited churches and massacred many thousands of priests. Western intellectual elites held far more positive feelings toward the USSR while its leaders retained a stridently anti-Christian attitude.

    That is if you accept the common narrative. The other side is that he’s just a pawn of the Zionists and is selling Russia out to Jewish oligarchs. That set aside, the Bolsheviks ‘destroying churches’ and shooting priests is another favourite American Pravda line. There were Bolsheviks who supported Christianity and Orthodox priests who supported the Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks were not a uniform force, but a multitude of ideologies and attitudes. Stalin himself studied in a parish and took lengths to protect priests and Russia’s religious background from the Bolsheviks who did want to destroy it. His belief was that if Russia wanted to throw away religion, it had to do it on its own terms.

    If a Counter-Currents article can speak positively of Stalin, why not Unz Review? But, I digress. The overal thesis is that the Jewish Bolsheviks wanted revenge for all those years of hatred, and lashed out with bloodshed. But, here’s the problem.

    Evidence of that bloodshed, in hard numbers, is as contradictory and confusing as Holocaust numbers. We seldom hear of the dramatic tone of Harvest of Sorrow or Anne Applebaum’s book on the gulag. Simon Sebag Montifiore’s book, Court of the Red Tsar is another. Add on the countless, Western, popular, and well received books on Soviet terror written since the 1940’s. All provide death tolls of 20 million or higher; the bigger the better. No one decries it the same way the Holocaust does, despite it being Jewish operated. The Holodomor, the Right’s Holocaust, is told with heart breaking stories, volumes of the death tolls, and an angry government demanding recognition. Unlike the Holocaust, the same analysis is not applied; when it is, the accusation of ‘denier’ is thrown out.

    In Russia, even in the USSR’s time, the view around the Holocaust was one of neutrality. The Russians did not like the Jews calling them monsters even after they had save them from the camps and had taken the time to evacuate them when they could. They asked them why they were being indignant. Well, such a thing eventually led to them fleeing Russia in the 1970’s to Israel, and Russia was condemned for that. The views of Russia towards Jews and the Holocaust is limited to Solzhenitsyn and American sources, despite Unz having the means to see what they thought about the Holocaust and the Holodomor.

    Earlier in the article there’s a reference to Eisenhower’s memoirs and how he never referenced the Holocaust or the Jews. There is a picture of him at one of those camps, so either he didn’t feel the need to include it or the writer simply didn’t feature any memoir snippets.

    The Mischling is mentioned as a way to argue, ‘See, since they had Jews in their ranks there’s no way they could think of exterminating them!’ The same argument can be made for the non-whites supporting Hitler’s cause, including the Muslims. The Mischling often paid to be considered full Aryans, and Mischlings are called that because they have half-Jewish or a Jewish grandparent, but are not fully Jewish. Lenin would be considered a Mischling, as he was 1/4 Jewish.

    The article itself started off with Holocaust skepticism, the stance that the Holocaust is fishy in some respects but holds some weight. Then it turns into Holocaust denial, in which the Holocaust

    did not

    happen; that the Germans are being forced to pay for something they did not do, and that they never actually wanted the extermination of Jews.

    Say that is true. It undermines the National Socialists’ core argument: to overcome the JQ. Since the Germans would have taken no action to solve the threat, and instead satisfied the demands of the Zionists, they are acting in accordance to Zionists, not their own interests. If they never committed any sort of crime, they would have evidence to prove innocence. But as it goes, either they destroyed the evidence, it was made up, or someone else destroyed it.

    The Auschwitz numbers are a good case. The deaths were not 4 million, but perhaps 1 million and under, most from disease. It’s fair. But, if the numbers – held on by the Soviets and which they relinquished – are all fake, then it means that Auschwitz is a Red Herring. The deported Jews, either self or forced, all had to go somewhere. If not one Jew died, then every problem we have today is because of inaction. The Jewish complaints and outcries are for nothing.

    There is an argument put forth that Raul Hilberg’s difficulty in publishing his book was due to his Jewish colleagues knowing the truth of what happened and that such a massive tome was not undertaken years prior, because of a lack of interest or lack of data. Hilberg’s work belied his original convictions. To address the ‘too big not to notice’ argument, the same could be said of the Gentiles killed in the war and in Russia. You must look into documents, data, interviews with people, and a lot of red tape. Hilberg managed to do it. Solzhenitsyn did. Years don’t matter, but the quality of the work does.

    I noted this change in argument midway through the article, as Unz hopped from subject to subject, hoping to tie it off with a neat bow. But he leaves more questions than answers, especially since the initial case of skepticism turned to denial. The lack of knowledge regarding the Russian aspect is common, and not one I’d expect from a man who reads ‘serious historians’. If you don’t read all aspects of every side, then you’re not taking your own argument seriously. If you don’t quote the entire thing, who’s to say you didn’t quote mine here?

    The article wasn’t jaw dropping, nor revelatory. It’s more a summary of the usual course, something KevMac has done on TOO multiple times before. In any case, Unz’s ‘serious scholars’ comment is noteworthy, especially since only a select few matter, and not the ones that may question the overall premise.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  851. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Well, to start just read Mr Unz’s article and you will find out what one of the main narrative say.

  852. @FKA Max

    ‘…Please, explain or debunk the above and the below:…’

    Oh, alright.

    The ‘above’ merely speculates that three million Jews might eventually arrive. It offers two specific figures for what is actually occurring: ten thousand a month, and ‘a thousand’ having crossed into the British zone in the last six weeks (or something).

    So? Assuming arrivals continued at the rate of ten thousand a month for a year, we’ve got 120,000 Holocaust survivors. Is there anyone who would dispute there were that many?

    The ‘below’ cites a specific source only for the estimate of 300,000 Jews having crossed from the German zone to the Soviet Zone.

    Again, so? After all, no one is claiming that the Germans killed all the Jews in Europe; merely that they tried.

  853. @Talmudic Follower

    ‘…If you visit modern day cremation, they mostly state that it takes 2-3 hours at 1600 degrees to cremate one cadaver…’

    You’re making a comparison that assumes that the Germans were concerned to perfectly reduce each corpse to a tidy little box of ashes, that they did each corpse one at a time, that they took care to make sure the ashes from one body weren’t mixed up with those from the next, and that the corpses were processed in an operation handling perhaps half a dozen a day, with care taken to ensure that each corpse was handled respectfully and in a manner according with the wishes of the loved ones.

    Given all that, you might have a point.

    But all that’s not given, and you don’t have a point. I really don’t see the problem. Of course the Germans could have killed six million penned, unarmed Jews. They managed to kill sixteen million Red Army soldiers, who were armed, shooting back, and trying not to get killed. This is like claiming there’s no way I can grow one carrot when I’ve just harvested five bushels of cabbages.

  854. @Anonymous

    Impossible, according to Poliakov, ‘special groups, with special fluids, destroyed all remains’.

  855. @bj

    ‘Holocaust By The Numbers

    Assume the cool down is an hour, that is four hours for cremation of the Jewish corpse. That is 6 per oven times 52 ovens equals 312 Jews exterminated per day. Multiple 312 Jewish corpses time 365 days per year equals 113,880 Jews exterminated per year.

    The war lasted five years so that is 569,400 Jews exterminated and cremated by the efficient German genocide specialists. The number sounds about right for the number of Jews exterminated in the famous Hollywood Holocaust.’

    One wonders how the Germans ever managed to kill sixteen million Red Army soldiers. Presumably, the Red Army soldiers — being armed, running around, and shooting back — would have presented even more insuperable difficulties.

    So if the Germans could have only done away with 569,000 penned, unarmed Jews, I’d say we need to revise that death toll for the Red Army sharply downwards. What would you say? About two hundred thousand?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  856. j2 says:
    @bj

    I actually get to even lower number of bodies than 569,400 in Auschwitz calculated from the capacity, what I think was the planned capacity.

    There were 6 muffles in Auschwirz I and 15+15+8+8=46 muffles in Auschwitz II. Crematoria IV worked from mid-March 1943 to May 1943. Crematorium I was in Auschwitz I. Originally it had two 2-muffle ovens from September 1940 and three 2-muffle ovens from the end of 1941. The crematoria was used up to July 1943.

    In August 1942 9,000 people died in Auschwitz I out of a typhus epidemia. Assuming that the crematorium I was used 24/7 and burning one body takes about one hour, as it does, the 6 muffles could burn 4,464 bodies in August 1942. That is, less than half of what was needed.

    So, what should have been the capacity of Auschwitz II crematories so that they could manage with a similar typhus epidemia? Firstly, we have to as are these crematoria to be operated 24/7? Why do you do work in shifts? Only if it is a process that cannot be interrupted (like a chemical process) or if the facilities are so rare that they must be shared.

    Why would one want to operate crematorias 24 hours a day instead of building more crematorias and operating each only 8 hours per day? For shift work you need the same crew, same food, same guards, same coke. It is not so expensive to build another crematorium especially having slave labor at hand. You just make everything more difficult by sharing the crematorium with many crews. In 24/7 there is no time allocated for maintenance (like taking the ash off) or to any problems.

    Assuming that 46 muffles of Auschwitz II were not planned to be operated 24 hours per day but only 8 hours per day, their capacity would have been about 8*46=384 bodies per day meaning 11,500 bodies per month. This suits well to expected disease epidemies.

    From March 1943 to November 1944 there are 20 months, so the planned maximum capacity would be 230,000. As the maximum capacity must be planned for taking care of peaks, this planned capacity suits quite well to about 120,000 cremations in the camp, which is the estimated number of deaths of registered camp inmates.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anon
  857. JackOH says:

    What’s Holocaust revisionism or denial in aid of?

    I appreciate Ron Unz’s moral courage and unique perspective here. Likewise, many comments here offer their own unique snapshots of a horrific period in history, plus good, temperate skepticism about the standard-issue Holocaust narrative.

    What happens, though, when the number of innocent Jews murdered in extra-judicial, non-combat killings is shown to be 200,000, or, say, even fewer than that? Does the current state of Israel’s foundational mythology evaporate? Do America’s Congressmen refuse to accept calls from AIPAC? Do Americans shun goods and services associated with Jews?

    I can easily imagine an American or Israeli Jew saying something like: “Yeah, that Holocaust stuff is way overcooked. So what? We Jews wanted to galvanize opinion in favor of a Jewish homeland after 1945, so we did a whole lot of German-bashing. Germans, as you all know, were eminently bashable after 1945. So we bashed ’em. Big deal. Besides, America has that “all men are created equal” stuff, written at the same time America’s Indians were being snookered out of their lands, and enslaved African Blacks were being imported to do stoop labor for Southern Whites who wanted to move upmarket. Yeah, we oversold Jewish suffering, packaged it in Hollywood movies. Jews get a homeland, America’s Gentiles get to feel virtuous and non-anti-Semitic. So it’s a win-win, right?”

    Any thoughts?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  858. @APilgrim

    German culture, with its warped beliefs about racial superiority, going back into the 19th century. Hitler hadn’t been born when the German flag was raised in 1883 on the coast of South-West Africa

    The origin of such theories is probably the US and England and not Germany and nobody in Germany probably ever cared about them (besides a few authors). Second, colonialism was not invented by the Germans in the 19th century, it’s a bit older than that. The historian Mike Davis speaks (in “Late Victorian Holocausts”) of 50 million deaths caused by British colonialism in only a few decades of the 19th centuries. Yes, there was a revolt in Namibia against the Germans who expelled them after that. On German television you hear about different death numbers.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
    , @APilgrim
  859. Erebus says:
    @j2

    Erebus is incorrect. The Jewish population of Poland was not concentrated on East.

    Indeed, I stand corrected. I checked the numbers for the parts of Poland that Germany annexed and at those under the Soviets, but somehow managed to overlook the General Government. Mea Culpa.

    Nevertheless, the answer to utu’s question remains – mass evacuation to the East. The results of Poland’s 1931 census were known to have been politically manipulated as Poland was trying to legitimize its rule over territories taken during the previous decade’s wars. Nevertheless, the consensus seems to be that Poland held from 2.7M to 3.1M Jews at the outbreak of the war.

    The Korherr Report, commissioned in Mar 1933, was produced in 2 versions – a long version for Himmler, and an executive summary for Hitler. Korherr produced a professional report on the status of Jewry, and on the progress to date at executing the “Final Solution”. Not including inmates of concentration camps or of ghettoes, some 1.45M Jews were deported (Korherr calls it “evacuation”) eastwards from Poland into the Russian territories, and a further 630k were deported eastwards from Russian territories as Barabarossa advanced. There is doubtless some overlap in those numbers, but those were the numbers that Korherr compiled from the German records. In addition to those, there would of course be many who escaped (as opposed to being deported/evacuated) eastwards, as well as whatever other direction was available.

    An excerpt is below the fold, along with a link to the entire translation.

    [MORE]

    All evacuations on the territory of the Reich and including the eastern territories and further in the German area of power and influence in Europe from October 1939 or later until 31.12.1942 [Dec. 31, 1942 (3 yrs 3 mos) -cy] resulted in the following numbers:

    1. Evacuation of Jews from Baden
    and the Palatinate to France ……. 6 504 Jews
    2. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich
    territory incl. the Protectorate and
    Bialystok district to the East ….. 170 642 ”
    3. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich
    area and the Protectorate
    to Theresienstadt…………………… 87 193
    4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern provinces to the Russian East: …..1 449 692 Jews
    >>The following numbers were sifted through the camps in the General government …….. 1 274 166 Jews
    >>through the camps in the Warthegau… 145 301 Jews
    5. Evacuation from other countries, namely:
    France (insofar as occupied before 10.11.1942) … ……………………………41 911 Jews
    Netherlands……………38 571 ”
    Belgium……………….. 16 886 ”
    Norway …………………… 532 ”

    Slovakia………………. 56 691 Jews
    Croatia ………………… 4 927 ”
    ——————————

    Evacuations total (incl. Theresienstadt and incl.
    special treatment)……….. 1 873 549 Jews
    w./o Theresienstadt…….. 1 786 356 ”

    6. In addition, according to data from the Reichssicherheitshauptamt there is the evacuation of… 633 300 Jews in the Russian territories incl. the former Baltic countries since the beginning of the Eastern Campaign.

    The above numbers do not include the inmates of ghettoes and concentration camps.
    The evacuations from Slovakia and Croatia were carried out by these states themselves.

    https://carolynyeager.net/korherr-report

  860. Hans says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    Enlisting the Churches to Lie

    On Feb. 29, 1944 the British Ministry of Information sent the following note to British clergy and the BBC:

    Experience has shown that the best distraction is atrocity propaganda directed against the enemy. Unfortunately the public is no longer so susceptible as in the days of “Corpse Factory,” the Mutilated Belgian Babies,” and the “Crucified Canadians.”

    Your cooperation is therefore earnestly sought to distract public attention from the doings of the Red Army by your wholehearted support of various charges against the Germans and Japanese which have been and will be put into circulation by the Ministry.

    Your expression of belief in such may convince others.

    I am, sir, Your obedient servant,
    (signed) H. Hewet, Assistant Secretary
    (Rozek, Edward, Allied Wartime Diplomacy: A Pattern in Poland, John Wiley & Sons, NY. pp. 209-210)

  861. @j2

    But on the other hand Britain did not have to give a foolish guarantee to Poland, and Poland did not have to be foolish enough to rebuff sensible German offers. Germany is not the primary guilty party (although they are not completely blameless either).

    • Replies: @crimson2
  862. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “How do we know there were only 52 ovens?”

    In Auschwitz I, the main camp, there were three furnaces each with 2 muffles, so 6 muffles. This is Crematorium I. In Birkenau, Crematorium II and III five furnaces, each with three muffles, that is 15+15 muffles. In Birkenau, Crematorium IV and Crematorium V had four furnaces, each with 2 muffles. That is 8+8 muffles. The sum is 6 muffles in Auschwitz I and 46 muffles in Auschwitz-Birkenau. Together 52 muffles (ovens, as you say). However, not all muffles were in use in any given time, indeed Crematorium IV was used only for two months and Crematorium I was not used after July 1943.

    Or so everybody else believes and there are the plans and photos of these crematoria, but it is true, how do we know? What if Nazis built very secretly 10 additional crematoria and destroyed all plans, photos and documents, killed everybody who saw them, and broke all concrete and buried the remains somewhere that nobody can find them. But should there not be some proof of it?

    • Replies: @Wally
  863. crimson2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Imagine being so stupid to think Germany shouldn’t be blamed for invading essentially every country in Europe. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  864. crimson2 says:
    @Otterboy

    Ron Unz, who pays for and runs this site with this own funds, will even allow someone like you to comment and personally insult him. Amazing isn’t it?

    Not really. He has plenty of deluded fellow Nazis like you to defend him. Besides, anyone who insults him is just on of the (Jews/Communists/Lizard People) [circle one] anyway.

    Do you see just how beautiful free speech really is? And how crucially important it is?

    Free speech has nothing to do with what Herr Unz allows or doesn’t allow on his website. He is free to delete my comments as he wishes. Cowards like you would raise a fit, but I could give a fuck. Nothing important is happening here.

    Unfortunately in a growing bunch of countries you go to jail for trying to exercise one’s right to free speech about the alleged holocaust.

    Again, I could give a fuck. Free speech is always a balance. Holocaust denial is explicitly stupid and dishonest, so nothing is really lost by banning it. Theoretically, perhaps. Yet, Europe was nearly destroyed and millions died because of the stupid Nazi ideology. And this protects you too. You won’t have to kill your own children like Himmler did if your movement never gets going. Maybe you don’t care, though.

    I wouldn’t ban denial because it gives the worst human beings alive a talking point. I’d rather shut you up by other means.

    , why are we not allowed to question certain facts about what happened during a certain time in our recent history?

    Again, to prevent the very real possibility of you eventually giving cyanide to your own children.

    In short, your bullshit adherence to the principle of free speech is an obvious ploy. You would cut a Jew’s throat if you thought you could get away with it. You know it and I know. I’m sure you will write a compelling denial, but I’m not going to read it so you’re just performing for the other Nazis at this point.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
    , @Otterboy
  865. crimson2 says:

    Serious question: let’s assume all of Unz’s nonsense is correct. Let’s say the Jews have fabricated this whole thing. Let’s say that Jews are fundamentally dishonest. Now, what do you want to do? They have freedom of speech, right? So, what’s your next move? What would you do if you were in charge?

  866. Wade says:
    @Liberty Mike

    This is of course right. It’s going to be hard to get everyone to realize it though because that is exactly what people do after a lifetime of brainwashing on any matter: the beliefs instilled through brainwashing becomes the default position which must be dislodged with “proof” before they will let go.

    • Replies: @Wally
  867. @crimson2

    Red herring, and besides, they work assiduously to abridge our freedom of speech rights and carefully control what we can read.

    See, for example, Thilo Sarrazin’s latest book.

  868. Erebus says:
    @crimson2

    What would you do if you were in charge?

    Only common sense moves are necessary:
    – Stop the dissemination of the story in history textbooks for schoolchildren.
    – Allow Germans/Germany to sue for defamation/slander anyone proclaiming the Holocaust narrative, in courts who’s rules of evidence and powers of enforcement are common to courts trying other defamation/slander cases.
    – Allow any party to discuss/debate/dispute any aspect of the historiography of the Holocaust (or any other purportedly historic event), without fear of reprisal, and back this up in law.

    Professional Holohoaxers would drop the narrative like molten lava, disavow having even heard of it, and the world would witness a slow-motion changing of the guard at the top of the pyramid. There may be some disturbance in banking circles of course, and True Believers would spend some time bewildered by it all. Of course, they’re usually pretty familiar with that state, so should come through ok after a decade or two. Not the first time in human history that a pack of nonsense masquerading as tribal lore fell apart, so no civilisations need be harmed in the process.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @crimson2
  869. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    That Twitter thread contains a number of arguments. Do you have time to tackle each one so we can evaluate them?

    • Replies: @Wally
  870. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    and that they tried to cremate 2 bodies at a time; but the temperature inside the muffle went so high that it damaged the oven.

    Why would the temperature go HIGHER with two bodies? One would think the operators would have MORE difficulty getting the temperature high.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  871. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    These are all things that are threatened now — but to accept fascism is to make the threat a reality.

    Threatened by whom?

  872. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    In August 1942 9,000 people died in Auschwitz I out of a typhus epidemia. Assuming that the crematorium I was used 24/7 and burning one body takes about one hour, as it does, the 6 muffles could burn 4,464 bodies in August 1942. That is, less than half of what was needed.

    What happened to the remaining 4,536 bodies then? Shouldn’t there be a mass grave somewhere?

    • Replies: @Yellowford
    , @j2
  873. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @crimson2

    I wouldn’t ban denial because it gives the worst human beings alive a talking point. I’d rather shut you up by other means.

    Such as what?

    • Replies: @JSM
  874. APilgrim says:
    @UncommonGround

    Social Darwinism is at the base of the German School theories, including the long discredited, and disastrous drivel of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel and Karl Heinrich Marx.

    Martin Luther & Philipp Melanchthon did NOT teach Germanic Racial Superiority.

    • Replies: @UncommonGround
  875. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    The number of victims of mass shootings was in the 100K’s range, not 1M’s … it’s really not clear what your point is.

    You don’t dispose of the prime authorities on a complex issue by bald statements such as “The number of victims of mass shootings was in the 100K’s range.”

    Either you take the claims you dispute one by one and refute them or you’re just spewing hot air.

  876. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    What gives off more heat, one log on the fire or two logs on the fire?

    Stop being silly.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Anonymous
    , @orionyx
  877. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Post each one and have at it.

    http://www.codoh.com

    Been there, done that.

  878. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Art

    Hey man — why are you banging on the Germans.

    From what you say, anyone might suppose I had said something against Germans, which is not the case. In fact, I rather like Germans, especially those who happen to be among my relatives.

    The Holocaust, anyway, has nothing to do with the character of the German people. Hitler never won an outright majority in any election, moreover he never ran on a platform of Jewish extermination, and even if some (even many) wartime Germans were complicit in atrocities of one kind or another, tell us of a nationality (consider the Israelis, for example) that has not been complicit in wartime atrocities. Or you might tell us of a nationality that has not been complicit in atrocities committed even in peace time: consider for example, the Soviet Jews, even without the justification of wartime necessity, when they had the whip hand over the Russian peasants.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Art
  879. Wally says:
    @Wade

    All Revisionists are former believers, so ….

    Take a look at the Revisionist commenters here, former Believers galore.

    There is the initial cognitive dissonance, but that breaks down eventually, unless you gain cash & power from the scam, and even then The Usual Enemies of Free Speech really know they are wrong, but don’t care, hence banning of free speech, censorship, physical assaults, persecution, harassment, stalking, and arrests.

    Bring it.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Wade
  880. APilgrim says:
    @Colin Wright

    German soldiers surrounded Herero villages. Thousands of men and women were taken from their homes and shot. Those who escaped fled into the desert—and German forces guarded its borders, trapping survivors in a wasteland without food or water. They poisoned wells to make the inhuman conditions even worse—tactics that were already considered war crimes under the Hague Convention, which were first agreed to in 1899. (German soldiers would use the same strategy a decade later, when they poisoned wells in France during World War I.) In the course of just a few years, 80 percent of the Herero tribe died, and many survivors were imprisoned in forced labor camps. After a rebellion of Nama fighters, these same tactics were used against Nama men, women, and children. In a colony where indigenous people vastly outnumbered the thousands of German settlers, the numbers are staggering: about 65,000 Herero and 10,000 Nama were murdered.

    “A Brutal Genocide in Colonial Africa Finally Gets its Deserved Recognition”, By Daniel A. Gross, Smithsonian magazine, October 28, 2015, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/brutal-genocide-colonial-africa-finally-gets-its-deserved-recognition-180957073/

  881. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    said:
    “let’s assume all of Unz’s nonsense is correct”

    The biggest problem for you and those like you is that you cannot prove that it’s “nonsense”. Pretty basic stuff.

    Witness this thread. You and your fake story advocates are being routed.

    Why do some people want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists bring them life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered. Jews should be elated.

    http://www.codoh.com

  882. APilgrim says:
    @UncommonGround

    The Sturmabteilung — the Storm Troopers — wore brown shirts. Why brown? Many early Nazis served in the Schutztruppe, the military units that had operated in Southwest Africa. Recalling German colonial grandeur, Nazi Storm Troopers purchased surplus Schutztruppe uniforms, light brown for service on the Kalahari Desert in the Southwest Africa realm.

    Hermann Goering rose as one of the Nazi triumvirate, second only to Hitler. The first Reichskommissar, or Governor, of German Southwest Africa was Goering’s father, Heinrich.

    Franz Ritter von Epp was an early leading figure of the Third Reich. He formed the Freikorps Epp in 1919, which was one of the many street fighting units that evolved into the Nazis. Indeed, von Epp’s personal aide was Ernst Röhm, who would later become a founding leader of the Storm Troopers. Von Epp hired a young informant named Adolf Hitler. Later, von Epp helped raise 60,000 marks to purchase the official Nazi newspaper Völkische Beobachter. Hitler appointed von Epp Reichskommissar for Bavaria in 1933, and as such, von Epp was involved with the inauguration and oversight of Germany’s first concentration camp, Dachau.

    Eugen Fischer was the Nazi doctor who helped pioneer murderous eugenics in the Third Reich. In 1939, Fischer declared in a lecture: “When a people wants … to preserve its own nature, it must reject alien racial elements, and when these have already insinuated themselves, it must suppress them and eliminate them. The Jew is such an alien and, therefore, when he wants to insinuate himself, he must be warded off. This is self-defense. In saying this, I do not characterize every Jew as inferior, as Negroes are, and I do not underestimate the greatest enemy with whom we have to fight.”

    Fischer’s protégé was the rabid anti-Semite Otmar von Verschuer, who undertook twin studies. Von Verschuer’s assistant, Josef Mengele, continued the twin research in Auschwitz, sending back weekly reports of his macabre dissection of eyeballs and skulls.

  883. Mike P says:
    @Wally

    Well, bodies are not flammable, which is why coal is used to heat the oven. If they indeed tried to burn two bodies at a time, they probably also increased the amount of coal, which would account for the overheating.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @APilgrim
  884. Mike P says:
    @Wally

    It is my impression that many people are resistant to conversion by evidence though – they will just close their eyes, ears, and minds. The cast of characters on here is not representative of the general population.

    • Replies: @Wally
  885. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Really? That’s it? That your best shot? LOL

    IOW, you have no proof for your impossible ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    – Gerard Menuhin / Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    Well, there were the ‘Nazis’ with the impossible ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  886. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Except they didn’t.

    Imagine someone being so stupid that they defend “that shitty little country” aka: parasite ‘Israel’.

    Did Britain initiate both world wars? https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10458
    Responsibility for WW2 https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544
    and: Introduction to HITLER’S WAR https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/
    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain, Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    http://www.codoh.com

  887. @Anonymous

    There were originally mass burials but the water table was too high. So called blood water reached the surface. As a result they had to exhume them and burn them in the open. In the Hungarian phase body burning was done in open air pits as well as the crematories. This was a faster process. One of the sonderkommandos took a photo of this process and it was smuggled out of austwitz. The trouble is the pits and crematories combined could not destroy 400,000 bodies in two months which is what has traditionally been claimed as regards the Hungarian Jews.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  888. JSM says:
    @Anonymous

    Such as what?

    I know, right? He’d shut us up by other means than censorship. What other means is there, but slit our throats? But somehow, *we* are the ones who’d slit a jew’s throat, he concludes. Projection, thy name is Crimson2.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  889. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Predictably, Colin Wright & those like him prefer to ignore this:

    http://www.codoh.com

  890. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “What happened to the remaining 4,536 bodies then? Shouldn’t there be a mass grave somewhere?”

    I guess they kept them in the morgue and burned them next month when there were not so many dead. But Nazis did bury bodies in Auschwitz. Then they had to open the graves and try to burn the bodies in open fire because the rotting bodies would have spoiled the well water. There is a famous photo of this burning of bodies in open fire. It most certainly is about opening a mass grave and trying to burn the bodies. Assuming they did not succeed, the charred remains were probably burned in the crematoria later. One Auschwitz eyewitness tells having seen from a window green bodies, with missing fingers and skin falling apart, being taken to the crematorium. This sounds like rotten bodies being burned in the crematorium, either taken form a morgue where they stayed far too long, or from a grave. I initially accept eyewitness statements. Only some are fabricated, many must be true, only often misinterpreted. This sounds true.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  891. Wally says:
    @CanSpeccy

    said:
    “even if some (even many) wartime Germans were complicit in atrocities of one kind or another”

    You mean the ‘many German atrocities’ that you nor anyone else can prove.

    You mean the ‘many German atrocities’ where immense human remains are claimed to be in allegedly known places, yet they do not exist.

    Still waiting, CanSpeccy

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  892. @utu

    A possible explanation of ultra-religious Jews being killed in especially large numbers is that it was particularly obvious they were Jews, in dress and appearance. More secular Jews were less conspicuous, less different in outward appearance from non-Jews and consequently had greater potential for survival. They had more chance of posing as non-Jews, as well.
    Kenneally’s Schindler’s Ark mentions Nazis in Poland forming work details of Jews on the Sabbath, and the ultra-pious regularly being shot for refusing to work. The more pragmatic concluded it was better to break the Sabbath than to be shot dead.

    • Replies: @Wally
  893. cassandra says:
    @Anon

    But the inner-core of his personality was megalomaniacal, pathological, and profoundly arrogant.

    The more I learn, the less I think that Hitler is the cartoonish megalomaniac he’s portrayed to be. If his exhortations were such clear evidence of a deranged mind, then why isn’t there a stronger reaction against Bibi Netenyahu’s recent diplomatic speech where he said, “The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong, for good or for ill, survive?” Those sentiments hark back to Bismark’s “blut und eisen” speech, and evoke the exhortations that Hitler used to arouse his people, yet no eyebrows are raised.

    Hitler is blanketed with such a heavy shroud of propaganda that I find it extremely difficult to tell even roughly what kind of person he actually was, so my assessment is very much a work in progress. But at this point, rather than a spittle-mouthed madman of a pulp fiction story, I see Hitler’s personality more like John Bolton’s or Bibi Netenyahu’s, with the difference that the theater accompanying Hitler’s propaganda was much more inspirational, and so, correspondingly more potent.

    • Replies: @cassandra
    , @Bukowski
  894. @crimson2

    Poland provoked deliberately the German attack, even firing on German passenger planes between Berlin and Königsberg, the present Kalingrad.
    This waw what Churchill had hoped for, war was declared, the French followed reluctantly.
    Nothing happened until Churchill’s plans for occupying Norway and Sweden, the German forces were just a few days in Norway before the planned British French landings.
    However, these planned GB French attacks made it clear for Hitler that especially GB did not want peace.
    He therefore subjugated France, it was military necessity to then occupy the Netherlands and Belgium.
    Even then Churchill refused peace, the Hess flight of May 1941.
    In the meantime Molotov had made it clear during his visit to Berlin that Hitler was now at the mercy of Stalin.
    Hitler attacked the USSR three weeks before Stalin’s planned attack on Germany.
    Churchill immediately sided with Stalin, FDR tested the waters for a few days, and also joined Stalin.
    In 1948, the Berlin blockade, Stalin showed his real face.
    For E Europe WW II just ended in 1990, the collapse of the USSR.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  895. @iffen

    Unusually wise words for this website.

  896. Wally says:
    @j2

    LENGHTY, select ‘more’ if necessary.

    Try actually reading my comment #866
    said:
    “Or so everybody else believes and there are the plans and photos of these crematoria, but it is true, how do we know? What if Nazis built very secretly 10 additional crematoria and destroyed all plans, photos and documents, killed everybody who saw them, and broke all concrete and buried the remains somewhere that nobody can find them. But should there not be some proof of it?”

    Say what” There are no claims or proof of such silliness, and the photos would have shown it.

    See lots about the aerial photos here, with video below:
    Air Photo Evidence, by John Clive Ball : https://codoh.com/library/document/919/?lang=en

    Aerial Photo Surveillance of Auschwitz, by Andrew Allen : https://codoh.com/library/document/986/?lang=en

    Drawn in ‘Jews being marched to gas chambers’, on a roof !! LOLand:
    ‘Critique of Claims Made by Robert Jan Van Pelt’
    http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html
    and:
    ‘Altered Aerial Photos and the Shadows of Doom’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3249
    and:
    Air Photo Evidence: https://archive.org/details/AirPhotoEvidenceAuschwitz%5B/quote%5D

    Memorabilia: Examination of the Air Photo Evidence of Auschwitz featuring John Ball
    By John Clive Ball. John Ball examines the air photos of Auschwitz and how they have been tampered with to fit the Holocaust narrative.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  897. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “…but to accept fascism is to make the threat a reality.”

    “Which Fascist Said This?” http://www.moonofalabama.org
    “The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong, for good or for ill, survive. The strong are respected, and alliances are made with the strong, and in the end peace is made with the strong.”
    — Do you recognize the spirit of the leading figure of the Jewish State? These are Bibi’s supremacist (fascist) bloviations issued on August 29 2018 at the Negev Nuclear Weapon Center.

  898. @Colin Wright

    There was an assertion that the gas chamber killings were scientific.
    In my opinion, the usual story is a very primitive process.
    Bodies were removed by hand, into crematoria which burned body by body.
    I’m reluctant to write this, but if I had to construct a factory for killing humans and disposing of their bodies, I’d do it quite differently.
    Beginning with killing with cyanide, instant death, then pushing the bodies by a bulldozer on a conveyor belt running through a crematorium, thus an uninterrupted process, at the end a grinder, then either storing the dust for removal by trucks, or continuing with some conveyor belt to a river.
    Hardly any witnesses.
    The crematorium I would have made part of the Auschwitz power plant for the industries, who has seen the Peenemünde still existing power plant, understands that it would have been ideal camouflage.
    On top of that, the crematorium heat used to be converted into steam for providing electricity.
    The USA was far more efficient with the open air prison camps after WWII, when nearly anyone there was dead, bulldozers were used to bury anything, bodies and dying people.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Erebus
  899. Wally says:
    @Uebersetzer

    said:
    “A possible explanation of ultra-religious Jews being killed in especially large numbers”

    Possible? That’s it? LOL

    Where’s your proof? Why do you dodge all the debunking posts?

    Please show us the alleged immense human remains in allegedly known places.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Uebersetzer
  900. cassandra says:
    @cassandra

    I just came across a specifically appropos quote by Hitler on the moonofalabama site, which took me to Hitler’s Munich speech of 23 April 1923 (http://www.hitler.org/speeches/04-13-23.html):

    Adolf:

    So the strength which each people possesses decides the day. Always before God and the world, the stronger has the right to carry through what he wills.

    Bibi:

    The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong, for good or for ill, survive

  901. @Yellowford

    ” the water table was too high. So called blood water reached the surface. As a result they had to exhume them and burn them in the open. In the Hungarian phase body burning was done in open air pits ”
    What miracle then kept these pits dry ?

    Auschwitz indeed had abundant water, just below the surface, and thad coal, out of water and coal rubber, oil and aircraft fuel was produced.
    How huge the industries were can even be understood from Wiesel, he worked in large store of electrical spare parts.

    About the Hungarian phase, any expert on train logistics tells you that transporting 400.000 Hungarian jews by train in July and August 1944 was an impossibility, even if there had not been a war going on, where military transports had priority.

    It is all this nonsense that makes the six million gas chamber story highly improbable.

  902. @CanSpeccy

    Wally isn’t some noble knight. He’s an obsessive. If it wasn’t Holocaust denial, it would be counting the number of paving stones he walks on. Probably the sunlight never hits his body for days while he is on Unz.

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @annamaria
    , @Wally
  903. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wally

    Wally, you are a total innocent, aren’t you. Why not try reading some history, then come back to this obsession of yours and see how unrealistic your position is.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @L.K
  904. Wally says:
    @Mike P

    Hi Mike,
    Actually it was coke, a coal derivative, but no big deal.

    Indeed, the need to burn 2 corpses would require additional fuel and once they got burning, like I said, they would give off more heat than one and be destructive to the muffle, as SS Prufer stated when interroated by SMERSCH.

    see my comment 866.

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  905. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “Why would the temperature go HIGHER with two bodies? One would think the operators would have MORE difficulty getting the temperature high.”

    Pork chops with an outside grill, fat drops from the pork chop and burns with a flame. More pork chops, bigger flame. Then the flame goes down after fat has burned and it takes some time to burn the meat to ashes.

    First burns the fat and increases the temperature, but when the fat is burned the charred body does not any more burn well by itself and it requires energy from coal. More bodies require more coal. So, you are correct in saying that the operators would have to use more coal to keep the oven temperature up during the cremation if they try to cremate more bodies at one time, or the cremation time would be longer, but apparently the bigger problem is that the larger flame can damage the oven.

  906. APilgrim says:
    @Mike P

    Bodies are flammable.

    Last night the Department of Health issued an instant ban on the practice which health minister Dr Dan Poulter branded ‘totally unacceptable.’ At least 15,500 foetal remains were incinerated by 27 NHS trusts over the last two years alone, Channel 4’s Dispatches discovered. One of the country’s leading hospitals, Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge, incinerated 797 babies below 13 weeks gestation at their own ‘waste to energy’ plant. The mothers were told the remains had been ‘cremated.’

    ‘Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals’, By Sarah Knapton, Science Correspondent, 24 March 2014 • 7:00am News Science, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/15/aborted-babies-incinerated-to-heat-uk-hospitals/

  907. @Wally

    With the WWII equipment the camps were not visible on the photographs.
    Just after WWII this was possible with better equipment
    Netanyahu was lying through his teeth when he said at Auschwitz about the WWII bombing ‘they had the camps in their sights’.
    Neufeld and Berenbaum, editors ‘The bombing of Auschwitz’, 2000, New York

  908. @Wally

    Please supply proof that the Nazis in occupied Poland respected Jewish holidays and didn’t see the Sabbath as just a bunch of anti-German parasites slacking off .
    “Dodge all the debunking posts”. Translates into “not being obsessed with the subject”.
    However, I find this man, Paul Otto, interesting. A prominent German actor, he starred in several Nazi-era films. One of them, Unternehmen Michael, is or was on Youtube. It is in German however, without subtitles.
    In 1943, Otto was revealed to be Jewish, something he had kept concealed for years, and committed suicide with his wife before being sent east for “special treatment”. Of course, in Wally’s world, he would have had no reason to do that because the Nazis were nothing but nice to Jews.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Otto

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  909. annamaria says:
    @Reisen

    “…as Unz hopped from subject to subject…”
    — Perhaps you need to re-read and edit your own very lengthy post filled with hopping from subject to subject.
    “The lack of knowledge regarding the Russian aspect” is a result of the strenuous efforts at preserving the image of the “blameless victim” suffering the “incomparable victimhood,” which turned out to be so wonderfully profitable for the “blameless.” Hence the sequestration of Solzhenitsyn’s documentary about Jews in Russia. So much for freedom of information.

    There is no end of extortions by the “blameless:”
    “Germany increases reparations for Holocaust survivors:” https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-increases-reparations-for-holocaust-survivors/
    “80 years on, Austria’s Jews renew demand for Holocaust reparations:” https://www.jns.org/80-years-on-austrias-jews-renew-demand-for-holocaust-reparations/
    “New Polish regulations entitle Holocaust survivors born in that country to monthly pension payments:” https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Polish-regulation-to-compensate-20000-Holocaust-survivors-403870

    Profiteering. Greed. In the context of the over-representation of Jews among the most influential members of the Bolsheviks’ bloody secret police and in the administration of GULAG (a network of murderous labor camps), the unceasing pretenses on “superior morality” and historical “blamelessness” are blatantly indecent: https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/01/21/jews-and-bolshevism/

    The Unz article, published under his real name, represents an act of true courage. On the other hand, never heard about “Reisen.”

  910. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Cremating a body ABSORBS heat. It doesn’t give off heat.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
    , @Anon
    , @cassandra
  911. APilgrim says:

    So the ~65M aborted babies in the USA since Row v Wade have exceeded NAZI the civilian slaughter.

    Do these (retarded) Deniers want to sift through hospital furnaces, for the evidence? Why bother denying the WW-II totals? Aren’t the Jew Haters PROUD of their work? Don’t they wish to finish the job, as part of their Jihad?

    Human mass slaughter is common everywhere, and always has been.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  912. Wally says:
    @Mike P

    Mike:
    Let’s face it, many previous ‘truths’ are no longer considered factual. People do change their opinions.
    I’m not sure that people here are not representative anymore. Many people I have encountered realize that the ‘holocaust’ narrative is bullshit, but have generally kept it to themselves. But sites like this & CODOH now allow them to voice their views, hence the Jew / leftist attempts to silence free speech and differing opinions from their dogma.

    Suppression of free speech only works for a while and then psychology kicks in and the rebellion against censorship is on. That’s where we are today.

    No offense, but with your pessimism nothing would ever change, but they do.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Mike P
  913. Anon[360] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > While you’re at it, please debunk the following comments and the figures and sources mentioned in them:

    There’s nothing to respond to. The Nazis deported specific Jews to specific places (like Treblinka) and most haven’t been seen since. What do your musings about the Jewish demographics in Russia have to do with anything? For example, they won’t help the deniers to establish where the 320,000 Hungarian Jews who were deported (among 430k) to Auschwitz in 1944, found unable to work and not registered in the camp went.

    > Ellen G. Friedman’s presentation centers on the largely unknown story of Polish Jews who were saved from Hitler by Stalin.

    Their history is well-studied, there were about 80k or so of them from memory, they help to disprove denial since they show there weren’t any “hidden” Jews in the Soviet camps, everything is plain as it can be, seen in the documents.

    > Russia Helped 1,750,000 Jews to Escape Nazis, Says James N. Rosenberg

    We know it didn’t.

    Not sure what you think this unsourced bit can prove. It’s like relying on the 1943 estimates of deaths in the Nazi camps, the level of accuracy and credibility is about the same (i.e. non-existent). Esp. considered that it was an address aimed at appeasing his Soviet guests: “an address of welcome which he delivered at a reception given at the Astor Hotel to Solomon Mikhoels and Itzik Feffer, the Jewish cultural delegation from Russia”.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  914. APilgrim says:
    @Anonymous

    NOT!

    Hospitals incinerate aborted fetuses, and generate electricity with the residual heat.

    Human bodies are useful fuel.

    • Replies: @Hegwood
    , @Genrick Yagoda
  915. APilgrim says:

    When the US Army Air Corps lit the firestorms of Dresden & Tokyo as well as the nuclear firestorms of Hiroshima & Nagasaki; we INTENDED to kill everybody in town. & we did kill everybody in town.

    When Sadaam Hussein’s Elite Guard was incinerated on the road north from Kuwait; we killed them all. When we ‘DO’ Tehran & North Korea, in the NEAR Future, the death toll will ALSO be high.

    Good! (Why deny it?)

    • Replies: @annamaria
  916. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    > Your contribution is gravely undermined by that cheap internet bloggers use of “lies”.
    Apart from the illiteracy there is a factual problem about anyone accusing Ron Unz of deliberately telling untruths – aka lies. He doesn’ lie.

    Says who?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  917. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > No they haven’t. Nothing to “respond” to.

    Everyone sees you have zero counterarguments to this:

    Can you formulate a counterargument?

    Take your time.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  918. Heros says:
    @Uebersetzer

    I find it amazing how the jews and their minions reading this AP series continually turn to their self perceived racial superiority in their ad hominem attacks. They cannot help but look down their hooked noses at any goyim impertinent enough to doubt their racially superior narrative.

    Another common characteristic linking all their comments is that anyone contesting their holohoax/rainbow unicorn fantasies is accused of not being sincere and merely trying to foment anti-semitism. This gambit is so transparent that it is laughable.

    Ron Unz should add some AI to Unz Review that marks any commentor who claims another of fomenting anti semitism with a yellow star. A kind of inverse jew-detecting Twitter subroutine. Unz needs to add this to protect honorable goyim from those same lying and blood sacrificing jews that faked the holocaust and projected their own guilt for WWI and WWII back onto the Germans.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  919. annamaria says:
    @Uebersetzer

    At least Wally has been fighting for the freedom of information. What is your problem?

  920. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    > I actually get to even lower number of bodies than 569,400 in Auschwitz calculated from the capacity, what I think was the planned capacity.

    Your number is ironically correct, even if you arrived at it through entirely false assumptions, since obviously about that number were cremated (as opposed to, say, incinerated in open air).

    > and burning one body takes about one hour

    It doesn’t. The capacities are known and are cited and explained at http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/09/short-debunking-of-steven-andersons.html#cremationexplained

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
  921. Anon[965] • Disclaimer says:

    On a brief inspection, this web page appears to pull content from Google (+ Blogger + Youtube), Facebook, and Twitter. That is, reading this page with the browser you regularly use will inform these monsters about your reading habits.

    If one is browsing through Tor, there are repeated attempts to detour you with prompts that the website is overwhelmed, and whatnot.

    It all looks like a terribly transparent honeypot.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  922. peterAUS says:
    @JackOH

    Any thoughts?

    I think you are onto something here with combination of:

    ….America’s Indians were being snookered out of their lands, and enslaved African Blacks were being imported to do stoop labor for Southern Whites……

    with

    ….America’s Gentiles get to feel virtuous….

    Especially the later.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @JackOH
    , @Hans
  923. crimson2 says:
    @Erebus

    Ah, a brave soul.

    – Stop the dissemination of the story in history textbooks for schoolchildren.

    And how will you do this. Currently no one believes you and no one is interested. Neither educators nor the government.

    – Allow Germans/Germany to sue for defamation/slander anyone proclaiming the Holocaust narrative, in courts who’s rules of evidence and powers of enforcement are common to courts trying other defamation/slander cases.

    This could be done right now, at least in the US. There is nothing stopping some German person who feels slandered from filing a lawsuit. Nothing except certain loss. Courts decide things by looking at evidence, and they aren’t often fooled by the ignorant sleight of hand that people like Ron Unz employ.

    Allow any party to discuss/debate/dispute any aspect of the historiography of the Holocaust (or any other purportedly historic event), without fear of reprisal, and back this up in law.

    What reprisals are you afraid of? Are you afraid of being called a denier or a Nazi? And you want a special law that forbids people from calling you a Nazi or denier? What about the free speech of the people?

    No one is coming for Ron Unz. Sure, if he tries to run for office again, it will be an even more embarrassing result for him than last time. He might lose business partners. Too bad. You can’t force people to do business with a Holocaust denier.

    Whether the Holocaust is real or not, it seems you are losing terribly. So…?

    • Troll: L.K
  924. Anon[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    > Cremating a body ABSORBS heat. It doesn’t give off heat.

    It does both, depending on the phase.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Erebus
  925. Anonymous [AKA "iohann"] says:

    For what it’s worth. 20 years back I began reading about these issues at the behest of my “crazy” father. One of his books spoke of hundreds of thousands of victims incinerated at Auschwitz(?). Interesting, methinks. If that is the case then the trees surrounding Auschwitz(?) would contain dendrological evidence of atmospheric ash incorporated in the tree tissue. Some years back, as I recall, all the trees surrounding Auschwitz(?) were cut down.

    Coincidence? Who should say?

    • Replies: @Wally
  926. annamaria says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “…see how unrealistic your position is.”
    — But first we need to do a research to check the facts, don’t we, CanSpeccy? Or you respect the Vatican dogma of the immaculate conception and hold on to the zionists’ line of the blameless and incomparable victimhood of all Jews?
    Israel is filled with the progeny of the Soviet sadists that used to dwell in the NKVD, CheKa, KGB and such.
    Look at the biographies (posted for you before) of the most horrifying and productive Jewish mass murderers in modern history, such as Kaganovich, Frenkel, Berman, Bronstein, and such subhuman specimen as Rozalia Zalkind-Zemliachka “known under a nickname Devil (for personal participation in mass executions”) to give a thought about the alleged “blamelessness” of all Jewish people: https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rozaliia_Zemliachka
    “A sadist and monster who would play a major role in the slaughter in the Crimea…” —Arkaday Vaksberg on Zemliachka
    https://nationalvanguard.org/2016/08/talmudic-terror-and-torture-2/

  927. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Multifunctionality is something the Holocaust deniers ignore (and their arguments based on this ignoring is something that we debunk, see http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#auschwitzswimmingpool )

    However it is proper to say that from some point in 1942 until some point in 1944 the primary function of Birkenau (as opposed to other subcamps) was extermination.

    Indeed, the documents about the camp from that period often go under the thematic heading “Durchführung der Sonderbehandlung”, and while the sense of Sonderbehandlung here was extended (it referred to the “Final Solution” in all its aspects, including slave labor), the primary goal of the Final Solution in that period was murder, and by extension the primary purpose of the camp was murder.

    I will acknowledge that there is a degree of subjectivity in this formulation (things having to do with importance/priority can be quite subjective), but it is a reasonable claim nevertheless.

    • Replies: @Wally
  928. crimson2 says:
    @Anon

    Wally is…not smart. We have documents from the Nazis on the gas chambers. Auschwitz architect Karl Bischoff wrote about the gassing cellar and how many bodies could be cremated. What does Wally say to this? I’m sure it will be unimaginably stupid.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Anon
    , @annamaria
  929. Hans says:
    @Hrw-500

    Glad you liked it, Hrw. Thanks for the Latuff link.

  930. Wally says:
    @Uebersetzer

    Yawn.
    Sorry, but you have been challenged for your proof of ‘millions of murdered Jews’ and you have not, cannot deliver. Basic stuff, really.

    That fact of the matter is that you’re getting your head handed to you here, and you don’t like it. Too bad, deal.

    I’m obsessive? Well, I do care about freedom of speech and dislike being robbed of my tax money for hateful, redneck Jew endeavors.

    And speaking of obsessive, Jews shoving their fake ‘6M’ down everyone’s throat, 24/7/365 is what most people would describe as “obsessive”.

    I own you.

    http://www.codoh

  931. L.K says:
    @j2

    j2

    But of course, Germany started the attack on Poland. Hitler could have avoided the world war by not attacking Poland.

    This is disingenuous on several levels. First, because it completely ignores all the context/history behind that conflict, what motivated the attack, it ignores the Soviet invasion and it ignores that the German/Soviet invasion of Poland was a localized conflict, not even a continental war, much less a world war.

    The fact of the matter is that Poland was created after WW1 with totally inappropriate and unsustainable borders.
    The British, the French, the Zamericans, none cared about Poland, but all used it ruthlessly against Germany, though the Polish leadership tried to use those powers to its advantage too.
    WW2 was supposedly started because of the German invasion of Poland, when then Britain and France declared war on Germany while, at the same time, ignoring the Soviet pact with Germany and its invasion and conquest of more than half of Poland.
    Instead, the Brits and the Americans later sided with Stalinist Russia, and at the end of the war, Poland had become a Soviet satellite.
    All this could have been avoided, if the Polish junta had only negotiated the return of just that tiny part of German territory, the corridor, to reconnect the bulk of Germany to severed East Prussia.
    As US historian T. Fleming writes, in his book ‘The Illusion of Victory”:
    Wilson proclaimed self-determination as a great principle—and then gave away chunks of German-speaking Europe to Czechoslovakia, Poland, Italy and France, sowing the seeds of the next war. Knowing that Austria favored a union with Germany after Vienna lost its empire, Wilson wrote into the Treaty of Versailles an article barring the union, no matter how the Austrians voted…[…]”
    Let’s take a look at what some prominent figures from the winning side in WW1 had to say about those things:

    Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, during the Paris negotiations:
    “I tell you once more, we would never have thought of giving to Poland a province that had not been Polish for the last 900 years…
    The proposal of the Polish Commission that we should place 2,100,000 Germans under the control of a people which is of a different religion and which has never proved its capacity for stable self-government throughout its history, must, in my judgment, lead sooner or later to a new war in the East of Europe…” 11)

    “France is not so much concerned with what is important to Poland, rather the French position is determined solely by the aim of weakening Germany.”12)

    “To surround Germany with small states, many of which are composed of peoples that have never governed themselves and that comprise large numbers of Germans who are demanding reunion with their homeland, such plans would be, it seems to me, a breeding ground for the most terrible reason for a future war.” 13)

    “… I knew that a time would come when Germany would respond to the cry of its exiled people and restore them to the Fatherland by force of arms.
    For that reason I renewed my pressure in the conference to reject the recommendations which incorporated in Poland towns and territories which were overwhelmingly German by language, race and inclination…” 14)

    The French professor of Slavonic studies, René Martel, in the year 1929:
    “All Polish ideas end up, basically, as plans for expansion. Far from wishing to resolve the question of the Corridor in a manner acceptable to Germany, they are dreaming in Poland of extending that territory by annexing Danzig and East Prussia in one way or another.” 25)

    Regarding Hitler’s attempts to negotiate the situation of the corridor/Danzig with Poland, Professor Harry Elmer Barnes, the prominent American historian cited in Unz’s article, stated:

    The fact is that the only real offer of security which Poland received in 1938 and 1939 emanated from Hitler. He offered to guarantee the boundaries laid down in the Versailles Treaty against every other country.
    Even the Weimar Republic had not for a moment taken this into consideration.
    Whatever one may think of Hitler’s government or foreign policy,no doubt exists on this point; his proposals to Poland in 1938/39 were reasonable and just and the most moderate of all which he made during the six years of his efforts to revise the Versailles Treaty by peaceful means.

    Btw, here is what the foreign minister of that predominantly “Slavic” country, the Soviet Union, had to say after the Soviet invasion of Poland in Sep. 39;

    Stalin’s Foreign Minister, Vyacheslav M. Molotov, stated before the Supreme Soviet on October 31, 1939:
    A single blow against Poland, first by the Germans, and then by the Red Army, and nothing remained of this misbegotten child of the Versailles Treaty, which owed its existence to the repression of non-Polish nationalities.’

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  932. Heros says:

    A great tweet about William Joyce. The scar on his face was made by a jewish communist busy fomenting WWII:

    https://twitter.com/_Fight0rDie5_/status/1016870863315046401

    He was attacked at a conservative party meeting in 1924 and his face slashed with a razor. There were at least five attempts on his life, starting in 1921 when he was 16. A lot of people didn’t like his views. He believed that all of his attackers were jewish communists. I’m inclined to agree.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  933. Art says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Hey man — why are you banging on the Germans.

    From what you say, anyone might suppose I had said something against Germans, which is not the case. In fact, I rather like Germans, especially those who happen to be among my relatives.

    History is a movie – not a picture – not a single snap shoot. Using the H-word, the Jews have locked history into a one frame accounting of WWII.

    The seventy-year moving picture of the aftermath of WWII shows that the Germans have pursued peace, and that the Jews have pursued war.

    The H-word obscures the reality of the aftermath of WWII. The mere use of the H-word is a propaganda victory for the Jews.

    We must refuse to use the H-word. We must put the WWII murder of the Jews in the perspective of the 55,000,000 deaths of that war.

    This very day the US government is killing poor Yemini folks, because of the H-word. Every day the US government is killing Muslims because of the H-word.

    The WWII aftermath movie produced by the Talmudic Jews, is one of death and darkness.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

  934. Wally says:
    @Anon

    LOL

    Regardless , 2 corpses would result in more heat than 1. Hence damage to the muffle as Prufer stated.

    See my comment #866

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  935. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Speaking of mythological “ashes”:

    Alleged “ash pond” for 1,100,000 Jew remains at Auschwitz, no remains can be shown.

    http://www.codoh.com

  936. Hegwood says:
    @APilgrim

    I haven’t followed your posts but I guess you believe in the Holocaust. You are stupid enough!

    Bodies do not burn. Crematory oven are equiped with hugh burners for a reason.

    Hindu’s have been cremating the bodies of loved ones for centuries and have not found out how to do it without hundreds of pounds of wood fuel per body. Check out You Tube for examples of how they cremate bodies.

    Hospital was is mostly paper and plastic – towels, gloves, syringes, tubes etc – not fetuses or other tissue and plastic is a good fuel.

    • Replies: @L.K
  937. L.K says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What are you still doing here?

    Didn’t you just state upthread how you are NOT interested in researching the subject of the holohoax?

    Yet, every single day since this article was published you pop up with some new idiotic/ duplicitous post?

    Why is that? Trolling much?

    The fact of the matter is that you barely know the official holohoax story, let alone reading what the suppressed side of the debate says. Then you have the gall to claim the revisionists have not presented their case!

    You dishonest mental midget!

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  938. crimson2 says:
    @Talmudic Follower

    Just to spotlight the stupidity, since many here are having some difficulty.

    There’s actually a cooling period before they can be handled and processed into a fine consistency before they’re returned back to the family.

    Yeah, genius, nobody is accusing the Nazis of keeping remains separate and returning them to the families. No one is accusing the Nazis of following modern guidelines for the cremation of human remains.

    When someone argues those things then your time estimates will be relevant.

  939. crimson2 says:
    @Heros

    Finally a feel good story in this thread. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Heros
  940. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    said:
    “Courts decide things by looking at evidence, and they aren’t often fooled by the ignorant sleight of hand that people like Ron Unz employ”

    So please tell us about the ‘court cases’ that have ‘proven’ the impossible ‘6M’ Jews.
    Then show us the allged immense human remain that said to be in known places.
    Please give us the forensic reports and at least links to full court transcripts, including cross examination text.
    Fake & unsupportable ‘summaries’ will not do.

    Now we’re talking.
    We await your response. errr … dodge.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @crimson2
  941. APilgrim says:

    ON THIS SPOT BODIES OF HEROES SLAIN AT THE ALAMO WERE BURNED ON A FUNERAL PYRE FRAGMENTS OF THE BODIES WERE AFTERWARD BURIED HERE THIS TABLET IS THE GIFT OF RELATIVES OF GREEN B. JEMISION AND OF OTHER FRIENDS, DE ZAVALA CHAPTER TEXAS LANDMARKS ASSN – Link: http://www.readtheplaque.com/plaque/bodies-of-heroes-slain-at-the-alamo-were-burned – Photo: http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9uiN1sVgxKszpzaX6vhd8_NI3GWgBpWvd7AVDn4bCr5dU_pNK4jJ-ks179XxzYAyEg0StoZlGdAh7C4jkNNBoLf8whY=s4096

    • Replies: @Hegwood
    , @Mike P
  942. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    Inconvenient:
    African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade / Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders’ ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade “African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today.”

    Black researcher, Dr. Tony Martin, let’s us know who the prime sellers & owners of slaves really were, Jews.
    Dr. Tony Martin – The Jewish Role in the African Slave Trade

    http://www.codoh.com

  943. L.K says:
    @crimson2

    Zionist filth, ‘crimson’:

    We have documents from the Nazis on the gas chambers.

    You are the one who is not so smart by LYING so blatantly!

    Most people are led to believe re the ‘holocau$t’, that there is abundant proof of the alleged crime. I once did too, since we are constantly lied to by your ilk.
    This is absolutely NOT TRUE.
    From mainstream holohoax quacks;

    — In 1951 the Jew Léon Poliakov, who had been part of the French delegation at the Nuremberg trial (1945-1946), stated his conclusion that we had at our disposal an overabundance of documents for all points of the history of the Third Reich, with the exception of one point alone: the “campaign to exterminate the Jews”. For this, he wrote, “No document remains, perhaps none has ever existed” (Bréviaire de la haine, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1974 [1951], p. 171; English version: Harvest of Hate, New York, Holocaust Library, 1979, revised and expanded edition).

    — In 1988 Arno Mayer, an American professor of Jewish origin teaching contemporary European history at Princeton University, wrote on the subject of the Nazi gas chambers: “Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable” (The “Final Solution” in History, New York, Pantheon Books, p. 362).

    – In 1996 the leftwing French historian Jacques Baynac, a staunch anti-revisionist since 1978, ended up admitting, after due consideration, that there was no evidence of the Nazi gas chambers’ existence. One could not fail to note, wrote Baynac, “the absence of documents, traces or other material evidence” (Le Nouveau Quotidien de Lausanne [Switzerland], September 2, 1996, p. 16, and September 3, 1996, p. 14).

    • Replies: @crimson2
  944. Mike P says:
    @Wally

    Well, I sure hope you’re right and I’m wrong. And I for one sincerely appreciate your constant efforts to get out the word.

    • Replies: @Wally
  945. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Yesterdays nonsense

    Here’s yet another swimming pool, Mauthausen “death camp”, with Jews hanging out poolside. Oops!

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  946. L.K says:
    @Hegwood

    ‘APilgrim’ is just another Zionist shill.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  947. Agent76 says:

    Mar 14, 2012 Holocaust Uncovered (1945) – WARNING: Distressing Images

    English MP Mrs. Mavis Tate shows proof of the holocaust with shots from her visit to a German concentration camp. Taken from the original 1945 British Bathe newsreel “German Atrocities – Proof”. This Pathe newsreel showed the world at the time what atrocities had been committed.

    • Replies: @Hegwood
    , @Heros
    , @Anonymous
    , @bj
  948. @Uebersetzer

    I only found this.

    Yom Kippur tears [holocaustmatters.org]

    Jewish life in camps, Markstädt camp, Religion, Sabbath and festivals

    EXCERPT FROM THE LONG NIGHT

    Märkstadt 1943

  949. anarchyst says:
    @crimson2

    “Courts decide things by looking at evidence, and they aren’t often fooled by the ignorant sleight of hand that people like Ron Unz employ.” Except when it comes to “all thing holocaust ™”

    If one honestly investigates the jewish holocaust ™ and comes to the conclusion that many of the claims concerning the jewish holocaust ™ are not only false but scientifically impossible, one can still be prosecuted for “improper thoughts”.

    You see, in Canada, and in many European countries, ANY deviation from the official holocaust ™ fable is punishable by fines and imprisonment. In addition, Canadian and European courts utilize the concept of “judicial notice” in which “commonly accepted beliefs” are sacrosanct, even if they can be proven false. Defendants in these “kangaroo courts” are not permitted to enter into evidence PROOF that certain holocaust ™ claims are indeed false, EVEN IF THEY CAN BE PROVEN SO.

    “Judicial notice”, in itself, turns the concept of “equal justice under law” on its head, and lends credibility to the fact that these “kangaroo courts” are not interested in the TRUTH, but have a deeper, far more insidious purpose–keeping the (false) claims of the jewish holocaust ™ alive and safe from scrutiny.

    You see, TRUTH is not part of these “kangaroo courts”. The jewish holocaust ™ has been turned into a “religion” in which NO deviation from the “official story” (orthodoxy) is allowed–even when holocaust ™ claims can be proven to be false.
    It is said that the light of day is the best disinfectant–except when it comes to “all things holocaust ™”.
    Monika Schaefer…
    Ursula Haverbeck…
    Both are grandmothers who are serving hard-time in German maximum-security prisons for daring to deviate from the “official” jewish holocaust ™ story.
    Question to holocaust ™ promoters…why are you so afraid of the TRUTH?

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @crimson2
  950. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Hitler attacked the USSR three weeks before Stalin’s planned attack on Germany.

    Oh come on, don’t be stupid if you can help it. To invade Germany, the USSR would’ve needed to capture the Western Poland first, which was awkward to say the least. Germany, on the other hand, could and did concentrate troop of the separation line for month before the invasion, which the Soviet side did not respond to for the fear of provoking the Germans into attacking. Invading Poland, the Soviets would’ve faced not only an enormous German Army poised to attack but also German allies -Romania, Hungary, Slovakia.

    The Soviet Union wasn’t ready for war with the German military machine, and Stalin knew it perfectly well. He wasn’t going to attack anybody. The Soviet leadership knew a war was inevitable. The only goal Stalin had in mind for 2-3 years before the war was to delay the beginning of it by any means necessary to gain time to prepare the country for it. He didn’t quite manage it, though.

    I don’t know why you people find it necessary to nurture these delusions. After all, this is all in the past. What matters is how you behave now.

    In 1948, the Berlin blockade, Stalin showed his real face.

    Well, but that time, Russia’s seen the real face of Europe aplenty. Believe me, that wasn’t a pretty sight.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Mike P
    , @Wally
    , @phil
  951. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “j2 wrote > and burning one body takes about one hour

    Anon commented: It doesn’t. The capacities are known and are cited and explained at ”

    The link you gave confirms that it is one hour. In this link you have the following sentence:
    “Finally, even the leading deniers like Carlo Mattogno put the cremation rates of the Auschwitz ovens at 1 hour per body:
    Since the Auschwitz-Birkenau ovens lacked draft intake installations (p. 81), the average time for a cremation (principal combustion in the chamber) was one hour.”

    This seems to be the best estimate for Auschwitz. In some crematoriums the time can be half an hour, but for Auschwitz crematoria it is one hour, for the reason Mattogno says, the ovens are not the fastest.

    The link you provided is to a site that is very poor. I have several times earlier looked at holocaustcontroversies and sadly found that the scientific level of that site is very low. Those people, like most debunkers, are trying to confuse and they make many intentional mistakes just to mislead readers. I would call the site dishonest.

    • Replies: @Anon
  952. crimson2 says:
    @L.K

    Man, you are stupid.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wulf
    , @Wally
  953. @APilgrim

    Social Darwinism is at the base of the German School theories, including the long discredited, and disastrous drivel of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel and Karl Heinrich Marx.

    Are you talking about the known philosophers Hegel and Marx? It would be completely new to me that they had anything to do with social darwinism. I quote from one web site: “Social Darwinism arose in the last quarter of the nineteenth century”. Hegel died in 1831. In any case most of his books are completely unreadable and if he had been a social dawinist nobody would have noticed it.

  954. Wally says:
    @Anon

    LENGTHY select ‘more’ if necessary

    Beyond laughable.
    Please tell us specifically what it is in that link that is applicable or is factual.

    “The actual cremation can take about 3 hours, and processing the cremated remains takes another 1-2 hours.”
    https://www.nationalcremation.com/ask-a-funeral-director/how-long-does-the-entire-cremation-process-take
    and: “How long is the actual cremation process?
    Typically the entire process takes about 5 hours although the actual time for the body to be consumed is approximately 3 hours.
    “: https://www.acremation.com/frequently-asked-questions/

    see the Zionists at ‘holocaust controversies’ slapped silly:
    Dissecting the Holocaust., by Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/990/?lang=en
    and:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=holocaust+controversies+cremation
    and:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=rudolf+cremations

    See two guys from HC sent packing here:
    Challenge to Roberto Muehlenkamp, Andrew Mathis & Believers on alleged Auschwitz / Birkenau ‘gassings’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11231

    ‘Utterly Impossible Cremations Claims Demolished … again’
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4451

    see my comment #866

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  955. crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    The Holocaust is taught as fact in every history class in the US. Why do I need to prove anything to a degenerate Nazi on the internet? Go forth and convince the historians, Wally. File your lawsuits if you think you can win them. I’m also not interested in proving to you that drinking gasoline would be fatal, so drink a couple pints if it makes you happy.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
    , @annamaria
  956. Hegwood says:
    @APilgrim

    Pyre – a heap or pile of wood or other combustible material, esp one used for cremating a corpse

    I am sure the cremators of the Alamo defenders used large amount of wood for fuel. Even at that it appears that it wasn’t enough since they still had to bury body parts.

  957. Wally says:
    @Mike P

    Thanks, Mike.
    Your contributions are also helpful.

    It’s about all of us pulling together and fighting this monstrous Big Lie which is driving so much of the Jew / leftist PC insanity we see.

    The tide is turning, stay the course. Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  958. APilgrim says:
    @L.K

    APilgrim is a Lutheran, Choctaw, & Engineer. Choctaw Live for War.

    LK can’t deal with reality. (Mass Slaughters are common as dirt.)

    Hegwood can’t do an energy balance. (Carbon Lifeforms Burn)

    • Troll: L.K
  959. Heros says:
    @crimson2

    I wouldn’t brag about your own hereditary blood lust. Just as with Palestine, arrogant jewish supremacist behavior is so off putting that even the stupidest goyim are waking up.

    I will requote the comic I posted earlier that was blocked where a hooked nose jew is framed behind the comment:

    “Imagine being a people that others find so disgusting that you have to make laws to keep them from hating you”

  960. Mike P says:
    @APilgrim

    If bodies themselves were flammable, why would you need a funeral pyre in the first place? Use your common sense. How many times have you burned your fingers on a match or candle, and how many times did you have to douse the flames with water?

    Is science education in Tel Aviv primary school really this bad?

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  961. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @crimson2

    Jonnie Hargis is indeed not smart.

    And the gas chambers are indeed documented.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  962. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    It all looks like a terribly transparent honeypot.

    Well….transparent honeypot isn’t much of a honeypot in the first place.

    Now…..I am sure that plenty of guys around are into privacy etc. on the Internet. That’s admirable.

    I believe I know something (or so I say) about Information Technology. So, my take is simple: any of Five Eyes can have my full name and physical address in its data storage if they want it. Any of them.
    And, that applies to some other players too.

    Make of that what you will.

  963. Anonymous[288] • Disclaimer says:

    The leading Jewish lobbying organizations have traditionally been deniers of the Christian Armenian Genocide.

    CHUTZPAH!

    I wish Unz would discuss this.

    I urge you to go here:

    http://noplacefordenial.blogspot.com/2007/08/press-kit-history-of-lobbying-against.html

    There, you can read quotes from the Jewish media such as this:

    Every year on April 24, the day that Armenians commemorate the killings, a resolution calling for the use of the controversial term is proposed in Congress and then beaten back. Some Jewish groups claim credit for ensuring that such a resolution never passes.

    Jewish advocacy groups, including the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, B’nai Brith and American Jewish Committee “have been working with the Turks on this issue” for more than 15 years, said Yola Habif Johnston, director for foundations and community outreach at Jinsa. “The Jewish lobby has quite actively supported Turkey in their efforts to prevent the so-called Armenian genocide resolution from passing,” she said.

    Showdown Set in ‘Genocide’ Debate
    Rebecca Spence, The Jewish Daily Forward
    Sep 02, 2006

  964. Anon[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Regardless , 2 corpses would result in more heat than 1. Hence damage to the muffle as Prufer stated.

    Are you saying that Prüfer’s (not Prufer’s) confession was not tortured, if you claim that he claimed something that allegedly contradicts the Holocaust?

    • Replies: @Wally
  965. Hegwood says:
    @Agent76

    Even the stupid Holocaust story says that the last death camp – Auschwitz, in Poland- ceased executions in Novcmber 1944. The Allies did not reach Germany until April 1945. Any film taken by them of Holocaust victims is four months too late and misses the mark by 500 miles.

    If you want to discuss the Holocaust first learn the story. My comment, #636, may be of help.

  966. Heros says:
    @Agent76

    Pure atrocity propaganda, the same kind that was used to start two world wars. It was the jewish pornography of its day.

    Have you ever heard of dysentery? What about allied bombing of the entire German transport system throughout 1944 in order to prolong the war. Do I need start posting clips about the Rhine Meadows lager?

  967. Anon[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > “The actual cremation can take about 3 hours, and processing the cremated remains takes another 1-2 hours.”

    Already debunked: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/09/short-debunking-of-steven-andersons.html#cremationexplained

    Any counterarguments?

    • Replies: @Wally
  968. APilgrim says:

    Following the Battle of the Alamo and the Goliad Massacre, the Mexican troops burned the bodies of the slain Texans. Following the battle of San Jacinto, Sam Houston made no provisions to dispose of the Mexicans troops killed in the battle and the corpses remained where they lay.

    Vultures & bugs ate the meat. Porcupines ate the bones.

    The Rancher Lady complained about it for 20 years.

    Fortunes of War.

  969. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    Yup.

    As to

    I don’t know why you people find it necessary to nurture these delusions.

    I get a feeling you have a pretty decent answer to that question, just see no point posting it here.
    Something along the lines, I guess:

    ….that wasn’t a pretty sight.

  970. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    > The link you gave confirms that it is one hour.

    The link confirms no such thing. Not sure why you would lie about such an easily verifiable thing.

    > This seems to be the best estimate for Auschwitz.

    The best estimates for Auschwitz are given in the wartime German wartime documents by the people who ran and built the ovens. These estimates are cited at the link.

    > The link you provided is to a site that is very poor.

    Actually it’s great, so you’re obviously wrong.

  971. APilgrim says:
    @Mike P

    Mike P, like most uneducated morons, is unfamiliar with thermodynamics.

    Thermodynamics is a sophomore-level class for engineering students.

    Texas Tier-1 University Engineering Programs are among the best, in the world.

    Do GFY

    • Replies: @L.K
  972. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Mauthausen was not even an extermination camp, so I’m afraid you have no point at all.

  973. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Agent76

    It is well accepted by proponents of the official version that there were no extermination camps in Germany.

  974. Mike P says:
    @EugeneGur

    Suggestion: read the recent piece by Ron Unz on this subject.

    • Replies: @L.K
  975. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    What do your musings about the Jewish demographics in Russia have to do with anything?

    That many more Jews managed to escape to Russia before Operation Barbarossa commenced than is generally accepted/reported and did not perish in the Holocaust, see here: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2491672

    From this time the border-crossers preferred to cross without permission. They had no confidence in the legalisms of the Occupying Power. When they crossed quietly they were more secure. There simply was no refugee who did not take with him a sum of money larger than that which the “Regulations” permitted. And so the “green border” [clandestine border crossing] became known among the refugees, together with the expert guides who earned huge sums from this “trade.”

    http://archive.is/d5tsE#selection-1491.1516-1491.1984

    That there were transit camps to hold people crossing the line at this area is very tenuous. Soviet authorities did not allow people to cross the line and would send them back although there is no doubt that help was afforded by some soldiers in the Red Army. It was local Nazi practice to force Jews to leave and herd them over the border, I have never heard of camps being set up to await for official permission to cross the border.

    http://archive.is/OvFZu#selection-2563.0-2563.436

    The second point is that camps like Belzec, really, likely, initially, served as transit camps and not as extermination camps. Why else would they almost exactly be set up at the Polish partition/demarcation line between the German and Russian sectors/zones and “It was local Nazi practice to force Jews to leave and herd them over the border”?

    Map of the Holocaust in occupied Poland during World War II with six extermination camps marked with white skulls in black squares: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Bełżec, Chełmno, Majdanek, Sobibór and Treblinka; as well as remote mass killing sites at Bronna Góra, Ponary, Połonka and others. Marked with the Star of David are selected large Polish cities with the extermination ghettos. Solid red line denotes the Nazi–Soviet frontier – starting point for Operation Barbarossa of 1941.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Poland

    It is certainly a historical fact that a very large number of Jews, some 300,000 [or many, many more 1,000,000+ due to “clandestine border crossing” (see above quote)] by the best estimates, fled from the German-occupied Zone into the Soviet Zone between September 1939 and early 1940. At times the Soviet authorities tried to stem the influx, and that would account for the presence of Jews on the demarcation line, for example at Belzec, which was right on the line, waiting for a chance to slip across. It is also quite conceivable that the German authorities would have thrown camps together at the crossing points, in order to prevent the Jews from returning to their homes in the [G]erman Zone.

    http://archive.is/OvFZu#selection-2733.0-2733.612

    In my opinion, a substantial number of Jews that were reported as being “processed” in the Korherr Report were actually really sent into the Russian sector/zone and not exterminated.

    Almost 2 years passed between the German invasion and subsequent occupation of Poland and the start of Operation Barbarossa, and I believe it is not unreasonable to assume that “clandestine border crossing” and/or “local Nazi practice to force Jews to leave and herd them over the border” continued during that time period.

    Korherr Report

    Between October 1939 and December 31, 1942 (see, page 9 of the Report), 1.274 million Jews had been “processed” at the camps of General Government and 145,000 at the camps in Warthegau (location of Kulmhof).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korherr_Report

    Full Korherr Report (23.3.1943) and its shortened version (19.4.1943) English translation: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/korherr.html Archived link: http://archive.is/QFQIC

    The following excerpts are part of the shortened version of theKorherr Report ( “Der Korherr-Bericht Kurze Fassung” 19.4.1943 https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/korherr-kurz.php ) and they confirm the “almost insurmountable difficulties in the compilation of accurate statistics regarding the Jewish population and its movements in the Eastern Territories since the beginning of the Second World War, which set uncontrollable masses of Jews in movement“. So my “musings about the Jewish demographics in Russia” are extremely relevant to determine the true extent of the Holocaust.

    Secret Reich Material
    THE FINAL SOLUTION OF THE EUROPEAN JEWISH PROBLEM
    Necessary Preliminary Remarks

    The registration of Jews according to race is extremely difficult, above all because of the reduction in their numbers due to secessions, conversions, earlier racial interbreeding and concealment, as shown by the unsuccessful registration of Jews by race in Austria in 1923 and the classification of Jews into full, half and quarter Jews in the German census of 1939. Jewish statistics should generally be interpreted as minimal figures whereby the errors of classification tend to vary in inverse proportion to the amount of Jewish blood.

    We have faced almost insurmountable difficulties in the compilation of accurate statistics regarding the Jewish population and its movements in the Eastern Territories since the beginning of the Second World War, which set uncontrollable masses of Jews in movement.

    http://archive.is/QFQIC#selection-9129.0-9129.265

    Source: https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/faksimile-kurz/korherr-kurz-01.php Archived link: https://web.archive.org/save/https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/faksimile-kurz/korherr-kurz-01.php

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @Wally
    , @Anon
  976. crimson2 says:
    @anarchyst

    1. I don’t care.
    2. The US has none of these laws and no deniers or Germans are suing anyone. We all know why: you would lose badly.

    • Replies: @Art
  977. L.K says:
    @crimson2

    You are a laughable Zionist clown!

    Keep amusing us!

    🙂

    • Replies: @crimson2
  978. Heros says:

    Jews never cared about war crimes, all they care about is their genocidal war against non-jews, especially Christians.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Morel

    Morel was accused of personally torturing and executing dozens of detainees, and of causing the death of more than 1,500 people imprisoned there through the systematic mistreatment.”

  979. Zumbuddi says:

    I stand corrected:
    According to Mohammad Gholi Majd, approx. 40% of Iran’s population was wiped out in WWI famine. It took Iran until 1964 to reach the population of Iran in 1914.

    At least 8–10 million Iranians out of a population of 18–20 million died of starvation and disease during the famine of 1917–1919. The Iranian holocaust was the biggest calamity of World War I and one of the worst genocides of the 20th century, yet it remained concealed for nearly a century.. . . A work of enduring value, Majd provides a comprehensive account of Iran’s greatest calamity.

  980. annamaria says:
    @APilgrim

    Do aborted fetuses demand reparations for eternity?

    “80 years on, Austria’s Jews renew demand for Holocaust reparations:” https://www.jns.org/80-years-on-austrias-jews-renew-demand-for-holocaust-reparations/
    “New Polish regulations entitle Holocaust survivors born in that country to monthly pension payments:” https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Polish-regulation-to-compensate-20000-Holocaust-survivors-403870
    “Germany increases reparations for Holocaust survivors:” https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-increases-reparations-for-holocaust-survivors/

    Should not the descendants of African slaves and of Russian victims of the Bolshevik terror demand reparations from Jewish people at large, for eternity?
    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/01/21/jews-and-bolshevism/ “A report sent to the British government in 1918 by Mr. Oudendyke, the Dutch consul in St. Petersburg, said that “Bolshevism is organised and worked by Jews.”
    In the War Records Division of the United States National Archives there is filed a report from an American Intelligence operative in St. Petersburg. Under Record Group 20; Records of the American Expeditionary Forces Capt. Montgomery Schuyler, G2 Intelligence wrote, “The Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning, guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type.”
    Also in the U.S. National Archives are two telegrams sent by American diplomats in Russia. State Department document 861.00/1757 sent on 2 May 1918 by U.S. Consul Summers in Moscow relates, “Jews predominant in local Soviet government… Document 861.00/2205 from Consul Caldwell in Vladivostock on 5 July 1918 describes, “Fifty per cent of Soviet government in each town consists of Jews of worst type.”

    Perhaps, if zionists did not pursue viciously their extortionist policies — while violating the freedom of information (see BDS and the imprisonments of respected academic researchers for daring to question the Holo-biz numbers) — there will be no ongoing rise in disgust towards the Jewish Power.

  981. annamaria says:
    @APilgrim

    “…we INTENDED to kill everybody in town. & we did kill everybody in town… Good! (Why deny it?)”

    Are you in your mind? — The incineration of the civilian population of Dresden and Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a war crime.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  982. L.K says:
    @Anon

    Anon299 goes ‘And the gas chambers are indeed documented.’

    No they are NOT, and you know it, which makes you another sad little LIAR.
    If that were the case, obviously there would be NO need to shield the official and totally fraudulent holo narrative with laws or career ruination to prohibit debate on the topic!

    As for the gutter level holohoax ‘controversies’ activists, they are all about deception and obfuscation!
    There is a reason the holo big wigs of holocaustianity keep a good distance from you clowns… you are a liability!

    Anyway, well known holohoax high Priest, er, ‘historian’ and Auschwitz ‘expert'(eyes rolling), Robert Jan van Pelt, in his ‘The Case for Auschwitz: Evidence from the Irving Trial’, p.5, writes:
    “The evidence for the role of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor[…] is much less abundant(than Auschwitz).”There are very few eyewitnesses, no confession that can compare to that given by Höss, no significant remains, and few archival sources.

    The same Jan van Pelt has however admitted in an interview to the Canadian STAR, 27 December 2009, that

    “We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings( at Auschwitz)…

    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove.

    So, the evidence for Auschwitz is next to nothing – plus there is abundant evidence refuting the hoax – but the evidence for the Aktion Reinhardt camps is, according to Pelt himself, even much less than at Auschwitz, which is just about zero. It should be noted that the holohoax is essentially based on lie-witness, ahem, eyewitness testimony, either captured SS camp personnel or former inmates.
    Höss testimony is complete nonsense and the reason is that the man was tortured into ‘confessing’.

    Famous holohoax “historian”, the miserable shabbos Goy, Christopher Browning, in his ‘The Origins of the Final Solution: The Evolution of Nazi Jewish Policy’, September 1939-March 1942 (University of Nebraska Press and Yad Vashem 🙂 , 2004), p.544 note.169, writes:“…the testimonies of especially Höss and to some extent Eichmann are confused, contradictory, self-serving, and not credible.”

    • Replies: @crimson2
    , @Anon
  983. Zumbuddi says:
    @utu

    Worth thinking about:

    Iran was home to perhaps 100,000 Jews at the time of WWII.

    Poles, including Polish Jews, fled Poland and found their way to Iran and safety during the war.
    https://mashable.com/2016/05/21/polish-refugees-iran/#BIfcoAPjR5ql

    Iran as a neutral could have been a safe harbor for many more European Jews.
    I’ve not read anything about that situation, but it’s intriguing: Did zionists interfere with plans of Jews to migrate to Iran inst3ead of Palestine?

    Did Allies constrain Jews from migrating to territory that Allies were using as a supply depot and transit for the Russians?

  984. L.K says:
    @APilgrim

    You are a laughable clown and liar, ‘APilgrim’!

    Keep the jokes coming…

    P.S. it is quite obvious your goal here is to spam the comments with sheer nonsense.

  985. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    “We have documents …”
    If you are so sure about your documents and facts, then why the Jewish Power has been so nervous about the independent research of the well-respected and highly knowledgeable academics and engineers? The nervousness has been so acute that the great numbers of researchers were incarcerated in violation of freedom of speech and freedom of information.

    These Jewish hysterics are the result of a fear of losing the extortionist rights on other peoples money. The hysterics have a historical context that the Jewish Power wants to obscure by any cost (hence the visceral hatred of everything Russian):
    “… the death toll of innocent civilians from the Bolshevik Revolution and the first two decades of the Soviet Regime was generally reckoned at running well into the tens of millions when we include the casualties of the Russian Civil War, the government-induced famines, the Gulag, and the executions. … historians know perfectly well that the Bolshevik leaders were overwhelmingly Jewish.
    Although only around 4% of Russia’s population was Jewish, Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government, an estimate fully consistent with the contemporaneous claims of Winston Churchill, Times of London correspondent Robert Wilton, and the officers of American Military Intelligence.
    … in per capita terms, Jews were the greatest mass-murderers of the twentieth century, holding that unfortunate distinction by an enormous margin and with no other nationality coming even remotely close. And yet, by the astonishing alchemy of Hollywood, the greatest killers of the last one hundred years have somehow been transmuted into being seen as the greatest victims…”

    The Jewish pretenses of “blamelessness” and “special victimhood” are not a delusion — they are the profiteering tactics, a tool for extortions.

    • Replies: @Anon
  986. fnn says:
    @Alden

    White Americans today are very docile compared to the Germans of Chemnitz. Maybe the Germans of the East are frontier Germans who fought the Slavs for many generations. Also, it’s well known they absorbed more Slavic genes.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  987. bj says:
    @Agent76

    Hellstorm – The Dresden Holocaust

  988. crimson2 says:
    @L.K

    Again, let’s examine how lying Nazis just make stuff up. (This is probably your only lesson from me, so study up.) LK claims that

    The same Jan van Pelt has however admitted in an interview to the Canadian STAR, 27 December 2009, that

    “We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings( at Auschwitz)…

    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove.

    Wow, that sounds bad!

    Except, that quotation? It doesn’t appear in the article:

    https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2009/12/27/a_case_for_letting_nature_take_back_auschwitz.html

    Yep, LK just provided a fabricated quotation and, quite stupidly, provided the exact citation for the article that the fabricated quotation would not appear in. Thanks!

    As you may have noticed the second part of that quote is actually in the article, but it’s clear from context that the 99% comment is about knowledge in general:

    By allowing nature to take over the site, do we run the risk of allowing humanity to forget what happened and set the stage for future questioning of the Holocaust?

    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge.

    I don’t think that the Holocaust is an exceptional case in that sense. We in the future – remembering the Holocaust – will operate in the same way that we remember most things from the past. We will know about it from literature and eyewitness testimony. . . . We are very successful in remembering the past in that manner. That’s how we know that Cesar was killed on the Ides of March. To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the Holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence.

    Van Pelt’s argument is that it’s okay to allow nature to take over Birkenau because we don’t need to keep the physical evidence of the Nazi atrocities to remember what they did. That’s what history books are for.

    So, LK tried feebly to pass off a fabricated quote and another quote taken out of context, but just made himself look stupid and dishonest. Careful, LK, a couple more lies and Ron Unz will accuse you of being Jewish!

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
    , @Wally
    , @L.K
  989. Art says:
    @crimson2

    1. I don’t care.

    Clearly you do not.

    German achievements after WWII — Peace!

    Talmudic Jew achievements after WWII.

    Oh my’ — the Jew legacy is one of wars, assassinations, and cultural harm.

    Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, 9/11, and cultural harm to all Western nations.

    The blood and grief on Jew hands is great.

    Clearly the Germans are a superior people.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

  990. APilgrim says:
    @annamaria

    Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden & Tokyo were ‘Sex Education Classes’.

    Do NOT ‘f’ with the United States.

    North Korea & Iran are about to start their Sex Ed Classes.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  991. Wulf says:
    @crimson2

    Boy, are you retarded.

    Where in that document are gas chambers mentioned you pathetic clown?

    Maybe my German is not that good? or perhaps you should learn some German so you can read the “evidence” before embarrassing yourself or trying to insult readers’ intelligence?

    A notification for the completion of a 4th crematory and a an estimated output of the different crematories does not prove The Greatest Crime In History Of Mankind, The One and Only, “The Sacred… holocaust”.

    Try again with the real evidence muppet. You are doing a disservice to The Narrative.

  992. L.K says:
    @crimson2

    It is pretty obvious you are the one trying to obfuscate what holohoax high priest van Pelt meant.

    You truly are desperate… puts a smile on my face.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  993. Erebus says:
    @crimson2

    And how will you do this.

    Um, you told me how I’d do this. Do you not remember qualifying your challenge by the phrase “… if you were in charge”?

    What reprisals are you afraid of?

    Being jailed, for one. Being called a denier or even a Nazi is a matter of supreme indifference to me.

    Courts decide things by looking at evidence…

    Which is why Zundel won when Canadian courts weren’t yet operating under judicial notice. Which in turn explains why judicial notice was instituted.

  994. L.K says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hello Unz,

    After reading Lipstadt, you wrote:

    Lipstadt is a professor of Holocaust Studies with an appointment in Emory University’s Department of Theology, and once I read the opening paragraph of her first chapter, I decided that her academic specialty might certainly be described as “Holocaust Theology.”…
    Lipstadt’s absolute horror at having someone actually dispute the tenets of her academic doctrine could not have been more blatant. Surely no zealous theologian of the European Dark Ages would have reacted any differently.

    Yep. Now, in the world of holocaust “studies”, Lipstadt would be considered as relatively low level. That is not the case of Jewish “historian” van Pelt. After the passing of Pressac, he was elevated to the position of most important official Auschwitz expert.
    Yet, as revisionist Carlo Mattogno demonstrates, van Pelt behaves precisely as a priest of ‘Holocaust Theology’, and NOT, not even remotely, as a scientific historian should.

    To the rescue of the special interests of these Powers came brave Prof. van Pelt in the late 1990s, after other attempts at staving off revisionism had failed.[9] When interviewed about revisionism in 1999, van Pelt stated the following:[10]
    “Holocaust denial for me is so revolting, and the way for me not to immediately become sick with having to deal with Leuchter, was by saying, OK, I am going to map his journey.” [00:36:47-00:37:00]
    This shows that van Pelt is obviously a person who is emotionally incapable of dealing objectively with dissenting opinions, as they make him sick. That alone is enough to render him unfit to act as an expert. But that wasn’t all. Van Pelt continued:
    “Auschwitz is like the holy of holies. I prepared years to go there and to have a fool [Leuchter] come in, come in completely unprepared, it’s sacrilege. Somebody who walks into the holy of holies and doesn’t give a damn.” [00:40:59-00:41:20]

    For van Pelt and persons sharing his views, Auschwitz and the holocaust are thus not items of the real world, which can and ought to be be scrutinized as every other item, but they have a religious, a sacred dimension and may therefore not be challenged. This, too, renders him unfit to pose as an expert in the matters at hand. To this van Pelt added:
    “Crematorium II is the most lethal building of Auschwitz. In the 2,500 square feet of this one room, more people lost their lives than any other place on this planet. 500,000 people were killed. If you would draw a map of human suffering, if you created a geography of atrocity, this would be the absolute center.” [00:55:44-00:56:15]

    Hence, for van Pelt the holiest of places is at once the one representing the absolute center of evil. What kind of a religion is that which reveres symbols of absolute evil? Yet the pinnacle of van Pelt’s insight was yet to come:
    “If the holocaust revisionists would be shown to be right, we would lose our sense about the Second World War, we would lose our sense about what democracy was. The Second World War was a moral war; it was a war between good and evil. And so if we take the core of this war, which is in fact Auschwitz, out of the picture, then everything else becomes unintelligible to us. We collectively end up in a madhouse.” [01:23:30 of original version[11]]

    Here you have it: World War II was a war of good against evil, a moral war; and the holocaust was at the core of that war.
    As is intelligible to anyone only somewhat familiar with just a few basic facts about World War II, these statements are dead wrong. But people like van Pelt have made up their minds and their world view, and they even made their mental sanity depend on that myth. No wonder, then, that revisionism drives these people crazy.
    How crazy it drives them can be seen from statements of some of the world’s leading holocaust peddlers. Haunted by the revisionist demands to show them or draw them a Nazi gas chamber, Elie Wiesel wrote in his memoirs (1994, p. 97):
    “The gas chambers should better have stayed locked away from indiscreet gazes. And to the power of imagination.”

    (The Real Case for Auschwitz:
    Robert van Pelt’s Evidence from the Irving Trial Critically Reviewed)

    Best regards

  995. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Van Pelt caught lying again.

    rooftop of crematorium no. 2 at Auschwitz / alleged ‘gas chamber’

    Taken January/February 1943 where there are no little ‘chimneys’ / columns for the alleged insertion of Zyklon-B / cyanide.
    The ‘chimneys’ / columns are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is 2-3 inches high.

    According to Auschwitz “expert” Robert Jan Van Pelt the ‘chimneys’ / insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.

    Busted! Another lying Chosenite nailed.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  996. Skeptikal says:
    @APilgrim

    Namibia, or attorneys representing Namibia, have filed a lawsuit in NY for reparations from Germany.
    Germany has “apologized” to the Namibians for massacring them, poisoning their water, enslaving them, and stealing their land, but steadfastly refused to consider any Wiedergutmaching like that from which Jews have received I expect billions of dollars. It will be interesting to see how this suit transpires, and whether it is even covered in the press.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/05/06/606379299/why-the-herero-of-namibia-are-suing-germany-for-reparations

  997. crimson2 says:
    @Wulf

    It’s right here, stupid brain dead Nazi:

    • Replies: @Wally
  998. crimson2 says:
    @L.K

    You don’t even try to defend your fabrication. First smart thing I’ve seen from you, LK. Please don’t poison you own children out of shame for having been bested. LOL

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Erebus
  999. L.K says:
    @Mike P

    Hey Mike,

    Eugene does not care… I’ve dealt with this guy before… he’s here to push WW2 propaganda, with a particular Stalinist spin.

    Notice how all these types here at Unz push similar stories, including the holohoax…
    After all, the holohoax is largely a product ‘made in the USSR’.
    Obviously, in Russia, more importance is placed on alleged exterminations of Russians.
    The Non-Jewish Stake in the Holocaust Mythology
    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/2/1/1919

    These types are better understood in light of what Russian historian T. S. Bushuyeva wrote:

    Painful History

    In her Novy Mir article Bushuyeva writes of the pain that Russians must now endure in acknowledging that much of what they have believed for decades about the “Great Patriotic War” is wrong….
    Writes Bushuyeva: “The entire depth of the tragedy that befell our five-million-man army in June 1941 must be plumbed. The evil that the rulers of the Soviet Union had planned for others suddenly, by some inscrutable fate, struck our own country.”

    It would be easy, Bushuyeva continues, to curse those who “are rewriting” history, and to continue to believe in the familiar contrived myths and symbols that appeal to our national pride — to the patriotism of the Russian people. “Yes, it would be possible to go on as before,” she writes, “if it were not for one peculiar circumstance. Man is so constituted that the truth, however painful, is more important in the final analysis than the spurious bliss of living in lies and ignorance.”

    Regards

    • Replies: @Mike P
  1000. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Previously you were challenged to present proof of your assertion that ‘millions of Jews were murdered by the Germans’.

    Do you have that for us yet?

    Just checking.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1001. Skeptikal says:
    @Wulf

    Ich sehe nichts in dem Dokument, was erwaehnt, dass die Leistung von den Krematorien “geschaetzt” —und nicht die tatsaechliche Leistung von den aufgezaehlten Krematorien—sei. Also stellt sich die unvermeidliche Frage: Woher stammen eigentlich in einem Zeitraum von 24 Stunden ueber 4,000 Leichen?

    Just askin’.

  1002. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    The claims about that document blasted to smithereens here:

    Neither Trace nor Proof, The Seven Auschwitz ‘Gassing’ Sites According to Jean-Claude Pressac, By Enrique Aynat Eknes : https://codoh.com/library/document/2326/?lang=en

    Another one bites the dust.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1003. @crimson2

    I suspect a different problem in a defamation suit. That is locus standi to bring a defamation case. At the very least I would expect that, at least, in common law and other countries where no action can be brought for defamation of the dead a plaintiff’s claim would be quickly struck out for inability to plead recognisable damage to reputation.

    Further thoughts are prompted however.

    The alleged defamation might be that a person had failed to acknowledge his ancestors’ genocidal wickedness and had indeed, when challenged falsely claimed their innocence. Yep, that might be hard to knock out and would allow, at least in a civil case, any question of judicial notice to be sidestepped.

    More far out. Think of Tasmania. No, thinking of Tasmania doesn’t require Americans to have passports or even to know that the former Van Diemens Land is part of Australia.

    We mainlanders joke that Tasmanians often have six fingers but their real distinction is in extinctions (give or take a bit of miscegenation though that wasn’t possible with the marsupial Tasmanian Tiger d.1937). They got rid of the indigenous Ttasmanians almost as quickly as those lovely pre PC pre Trudeau Canadians got rid of the Beothuk people of Newfoundland (keep that one up your sleeve Americans when being lectured by Canadians – as long as they don’t know enough to point out that 1829 when Newfies achieved elimination of Beothuk was 61 years before Wounded Knee). So you don’t really want to think of Tasmania? But they seem to have a defamation of the dead law which isn’t confined to criminal libel. Go for a hike in Tassie’s great SW wilderness with a local lawyer and think about the possibilities.

  1004. Anonymous [AKA "Jonesz"] says:
    @Colin Wright

    Is Irving telling us the truth of what he believes? He happens to be under much stress and will be under much stress until he dies. We need to keep all of this in mind when we listen to him.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1005. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Pay attention I gave them to you. See my comment here #866.

    Only a True Believer anti-science Zionist would think that the Germans could have cremated people much faster than today’s state of the art crematoriums. LOL

    And please tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    Oh well, these push the dagger deeper.
    More for you about the fake “death camp” Auschwitz”:

    An “extermination camp” where thousands of Jews chose to stay behind when the Germans left.

    An “extermination camp” where most of the inmates, more thousands, chose to leave WITH the Germans.

    An “extermination camp” where 1,250,000 human remains are supposedly buried, but no one can show us these remains.

    An “extermination camp” where many Jews gave birth.

    An “extermination camp” where the absurdly alleged homicidal ‘gas chambers’ could not have worked as alleged, as proven repeatedly, scientifically impossible.

    An “extermination camp” where fake ‘gas chambers’ were “reconstructed” AFTER THE WAR.

    An “extermination camp” where detailed aerial photos of the period show nothing that is alleged to have been happening.

    An “extermination camp” where there are even obvious, laughable attempts to tamper with aerial photos that make a mockery of the fake storyline.
    see:
    Auschwitz Aerial photos, tampered with to fit the fake story: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669

    An “extermination camp” where there are countless Jew “survivors”.

    An “extermination camp” where so called “survivors” say the most impossible and conflicting things that do not hold up to scrutiny, would be laughed out of a legit court of law.

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1006. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @L.K

    You dishonest mental midget!

    LOL
    This debate is just too intellectually demanding for me to continue.

  1007. Skeptikal says:
    @Wulf

    Wolf:
    I doubt you speak German.
    There are plenty of documents about Vergasungskammer und Vergasungskeller.

  1008. Erebus says:
    @Anon

    It does both, depending on the phase.

    Actually, it depends more on the fat content. An emaciated body, such as typhus victim, is a thermal sink all the way as the skeleton requires a great deal of heat to reduce to ash.

  1009. Wally says:
    @Anon

    I have no umlaut on my keyboard. Is that your best shot? LOL

    said:
    “Are you saying that Prüfer’s (not Prufer’s) confession was not tortured, if you claim that he claimed something that allegedly contradicts the Holocaust?”

    His statements about cremation time & capabilities were not “confessions”, they were answers to SMERSCH. They were published by Gerald Fleming. Pay attention

    And BTW, it’s the scientifically impossible story which contradicts the facts as stated by Prufer.

    Desperate much? LOL

    see my comment #1029

    http://www.codoh.com

    Oh, the alleged 1,250,000 human remains said to be at Auschwitz are in fact not there.
    Please tell us how the alleged & impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked. LOL
    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1010. @Anon

    Well I’ll say it. Although not a personal friend I have known Ron for 20 years and, while I make no claim to being able to peer into his or anyone else’s soul or conscience I see you as insulting his intellect as well as his moral character if you suggest he might need to or would lie (consciously say something untrue for some sort of personal gain excluding only the “you look lovely in it” lies for harmony). As anyone who reads his careful prose including disclaimers about his areas of expertise can see, he can admit error. And I am confident that his ego is so strong that, even if he discovered that he had made some excruciatingly elementary and therefore embarrassing logical error, he would laugh it off and offer it as another example of perverse human oddity (cf.h-bd).

    • Replies: @Anon
  1011. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Who the hell is he? And why would anyone even care, or even say that?
    Desperation deluxe. LOL

    Please present your so called “documents”. We await.

    compliments of CODOH:
    For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at: http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1012. Mike P says:
    @L.K

    Eugene does not care

    I think so, too, but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    It seems somehow Russian heritage and truth in historiography don’t go well together – with notable exceptions like your brave Bushuyeva, who I’m sure caught plenty of flak for her remarks.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  1013. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    I remind you that you ARE here, trying to debate your impossible religion.
    So obviously you DO feel the “need to prove” something.

    But how does one prove a religion?

    We have asked you many times to provide proof for your alleged ‘millions of murdered Jews’. But you have not, and quite obviously, cannot.

    BTW:
    Auschwitz ‘eyewitness’ Dov Paisikovic stated that the cremation of one body took about four minutes! LOL
    source: Léon Poliakov, Auschwitz, René Julliard, Paris 1964, p. 159 ff.

    Any one who doubts that will be arrested in Europe.
    Cheers.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1014. @CanSpeccy

    Prime authorities, LOL. What a tool. The Germans own documentation makes clear that these shootings took place in the context of anti-partisan operations, and not some “extermination plan”, and that the number was probably of the order of 100Ks.

    https://archive.org/details/VincentReynouardLesEinsatzgruppenPartie4JugesEtHistoriensPrisEnFlagrantDelitDeMensonges

    At any rate, if you believe these shootings constitute the bulk of German culpability (while still presumably allowing for normal war deaths), then you are basically granting the revisionist point. You’re welcome.

  1015. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    You’re just a tad behind the times:

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR
    https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    Got those ‘millions of claimed Jew human remains’ yet?

    http://www.codoh.com

    Only lies require censorship.

  1016. @jilles dykstra

    ‘…I’m reluctant to write this, but if I had to construct a factory for killing humans and disposing of their bodies, I’d do it quite differently…’

    That’s it. We are not renewing your contract to run our summer camp program. The campfire singalongs were bad enough.

  1017. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    IOW, you do not have your claimed ‘court cases’ to show us.

    And you did dodge, as I assumed you would. Not looking good for your position.

    You’re failing badly because:

    The impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1018. @fnn

    ‘Also, it’s well known they absorbed more Slavic genes.’

    Given the settlement patterns in the East, and the usual population dynamics in pre-modern times (negative population growth in towns, replenishment from positive-population growth countryside), I wouldn’t be surprised if Eastern Germans are mostly Slavic.

    • Replies: @j2
  1019. @CanSpeccy

    BTW, where does Solzhenitsyn confirm Hilberg’s numbers (for the mass shootings)?

    • Replies: @phil
  1020. @Anonymous

    ‘Is Irving telling us the truth of what he believes? He happens to be under much stress and will be under much stress until he dies. We need to keep all of this in mind when we listen to him.’

    I’m relatively well-acquainted with Irving. It’s my belief that on the contrary, the persecution he’s undergone has made him more stubborn and less willing to concede anything beyond what his integrity forces him to admit is the case.

  1021. @Wally

    ‘GMT
    @crimson2
    The claims about that document blasted to smithereens here:

    Neither Trace nor Proof, The Seven Auschwitz ‘Gassing’ Sites According to Jean-Claude Pressac, By Enrique Aynat Eknes : https://codoh.com/library/document/2326/?lang=en

    Another one bites the dust.

    http://www.codoh.com

    How come all this ‘blasting to smithereens,’ etc only occurs at ‘codoh’?

    At a minimum, don’t you ever consult any other source? I’m never really comfortable with a conclusion until I’ve read, not those who agree with me, but those who disagree with me.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1022. Art says:
    @crimson2

    Gee crimson,

    I see that you have accepted the notion that Jews are inferior to the Germans.

    Look at the morals of both after WWII.

    The facts say — Germans seek peace – Jews war.

    Think Peace — Do No harm — Art

    p.s. You need to be a gracious loser.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1023. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    “Go forth and convince the historians…”
    — Your pernicious Jewish Power has criminalized the honest investigation of Holo-biz claims (ziocons and Karl Rove have converged in their desire to “create their own reality”). The criminalization of the research in the events of the WWII removes any doubts about the hefty dose of fraudulent claims by the Holo-biz. Nothing defaces the memory of the WWII victims like the cynical and profiteering Holo-biz.
    The crimes of the Jewish Bolsheviks, on the contrary, are well-documented but carefully obscured by the same proponents of “eternal victimhood.”

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1024. https://electronicintifada.net/content/censored-film-names-adam-milstein-canary-mission-funder/25356

    The Electronic Intifada is releasing segments it has obtained of the banned film The Lobby – USA, one shows Eric Gallagher telling an undercover Al Jazeera reporter about Milstein’s role and the other shows Milstein talking about the need to “investigate” and “expose” critics of Israel, who Milstein believes are not only anti-Semites, but also “anti-Christian” and “anti-freedom” activists who “terrorize us.”

    The film has been censored even though it addresses matters of considerable public interest, including covert efforts on behalf of a foreign state to spy on, harass or prevent Americans from engaging in activities protected by the First Amendment.

    Israel lobby financier Adam Milstein has been identified as the funder of Canary Mission, the anonymous website that aims to tarnish the reputations of US supporters of Palestinian rights.

    Alongside his associate Sheldon Adelson, Milstein is a high-profile figure in the Israel lobby.

    Milstein is named as the financier of Canary Mission by Eric Gallagher, a former employee of The Israel Project, in Al Jazeera’s censored investigative film, The Lobby – USA.

    Canary Mission has targeted some 1,900 students and academics in its profiles since 2015, smearing them as “racist,” “anti-American” and “anti-Semitic.”

    The film also reveals that Israel lobby operatives who rely on information provided by Canary Mission “coordinate” their activities with the Israeli government.

  1025. crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    I don’t debate worthless Nazi dipshits like you. I embarrassed LK as a brief, free service. I seriously hope that you meet the same fate as the victims you claim never existed.

    Let me know when anyone of even minor importance takes a Holocaust denier seriously.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Wally
  1026. crimson2 says:
    @annamaria

    – Your pernicious Jewish Power has criminalized the honest investigation

    Why do you lying cowards keep claiming this? It’s not illegal in the US and you idiots have as much success convincing people here as anywhere else. You are outcasts and rejects and hated by your own families because of your incredibly stupid ideas, not because of some conspiracy against you. Sad 🙁

  1027. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    You’re dodging again.
    Now, do tell us what you think is incorrect about my posted:

    Neither Trace nor Proof, The Seven Auschwitz ‘Gassing’ Sites According to Jean-Claude Pressac, By Enrique Aynat Eknes : https://codoh.com/library/document/2326/?lang=en

    Wrong. I’ve read it all, the good, the bad, & the ugly; hence that’s why I know so much about the scam. I’m just a messenger, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ story is the message.

    You, on the other hand, have still not provided the prove for your claimed ‘millions of murdered Jews’. We await.

    Or perhaps you’re starting to wake up. All Revisionists are former Believers. We’d welcome you with open arms.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1028. crimson2 says:
    @Art

    Honestly, Art, I can’t tell if you’re too stupid to understand that LK got busted making up a quote or if you are trying some “declare victory and walk away” strategy. Either way, I suspect tonight when you’re cuddling the pillow that stands in as a cold replacement for actual human contact, that you’ll at least sense how useless all your hollow preening is, and how total your defeat.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Art
    , @annamaria
  1029. Skeptikal says:
    @crimson2

    The point of Ron’s post is not (I believe) to support Holocaust denial per se but to support the right of historians to question anything and everything. The term “holocaust denial” has become too vague.’
    That is largely a fault of the term itself. Now it apparently means any bad thing that happened to a Jew. Not a bad thing that happened to Poles, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Roma, Communists, even loudmouthed Germans who got intoo trouble for being too opinionated and were sent for “reeducation.” No, the H-word refers only to Jews. This in itself degrades the whole idea.

    The First Amendment protects our right to discuss these issues, to discuss the numbers of people killled, and how they were killed, to show evidence, to argue about it all, and also to discuss the knock-on effects of the Holocaust meme in contemporary society and politics. I think Ron’s essay is an assertion of this right. I certainly hope he doesn’t question the reality of the gas chambers and the crematoria. If he does, then I suggest he learn German, and start reading the documentary evidence.

    • Replies: @phil
  1030. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Ah yes, the old & worn vergasungskeller / vergasungskeller silliness.

    Please tell us which version this document is.

    Actually a lice fumigation cellar in a crematorium which was never built. Oops! LOL

    tons of overwhelming research here: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Vergasungskeller
    ex.:
    The Unreliability of Documents in Jean-Claude Pressac’s Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, by Carlos Whitlock Porter
    https://codoh.com/library/document/961/?lang=en

    the ordinary meaning of “Vergasung-” type words at Auschwitz, among the SS, and during this time frame, is as a synonym for fumigation or disinfection. Therefore the most likely explanation for the word “Vergasungskeller” is a basement in which fumigation or disinfection is going to take place.

    see: https://codoh.com/library/document/904/?lang=en

    Excellent thread here: Vergassungskeller question
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5647

    search CODOH forum, for vergassungskeller, or vergasungskeller

    http://www.codoh.com

  1031. Robjil says:
    @crimson2

    Most people here fell for the Kool-Aid. I woke up when the US destroyed Yugoslavia. Why Yugoslavia? I been there, a beautiful country. The US bombed a TV station with people in it, bombed hospitals, bridges with people on them, trains on Orthodox Easter with people on them, etc. The US is cruelly insane. I feel asleep again with 911. I fell for the Kool- aid again. 2014, when the US used trained neonazis to take over Ukraine, I woke up permanently. Nazis were considered the most horrible thing ever by our faux press. There are 24/7 stories about how horrible they were every day in our faux press. Yet, here we have Victoria Nuland, a Jewish women, supporting neonazis to take Ukraine for US interests. If that doesn’t wake up anyone, I don’t know what would. After waking up, I looked in other events. 911, was a US/Israel deal. Christopher Bollyn names names. This is about criminals and not going after any people. The Half- Italian Big 6 H is not the center of the Universe and neither is Israel. I said Half Italian because DNA studies have found that Ashkenazis are descendants of Gentile Roman women and Middle East fathers. So if the six million thing is real. Italy should get half reparations for the Big 6 H.

  1032. cassandra says:
    @Anonymous

    I tend to take your side over Wally. If his view were correct, I’d have thought that somewhere people in cold climates would be throwing animals on their fires to keep warm, but I’ve never heard of such.

    Things that can be thrown into fires and consumed without quenching the flames don’t necessarily release heat.

    To carry this conversation to its gruesomely technical conclusion, has anyone, perhaps in the meat processing/disposal industry, seen actual numbers for the net caloric budget of mammalian flesh? On the one hand, a lot of heat has first to be added to remove the water so the flesh can get above the boiling point of water; a little more has to be added to bring the dry residue to its flash point. Only then will ignition follow to produce actual heat output. This latter has to exceed what went in before if the process is to be exothermic. It’s not obvious offhand which dominates.

  1033. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Hey Buddy Crim,
    Were still waiting for your proof of your claimed ‘millions of murdered Jews’.
    Tick tock, tick tock.

    In the meantime I invite you to view the famous ‘6,000,000 Jews’ lie and the laughing Mexican, enjoy.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1034. Erebus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I’m reluctant to write this, but if I had to construct a factory for killing humans and disposing of their bodies, I’d do it quite differently.

    I don’t know why you’re reluctant. Anybody with a notion of how factories and public facilities are designed and engineered to purpose would immediately see that the facilities under discussion are what they were overtly designed to be, and couldn’t readily be turned to another purpose. The supporting infrastructure required to turn them into the Holocaust’s “death camps” just isn’t there, and it would be a major undertaking to convert them, especially in wartime.

    If orders had come down to convert them to another purpose, we would see the necessary redevelopment and re-construction. We don’t, the orders never came. That the camps were more than they were obviously designed to be is confined to the minds of the deluded and propagandists.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @jilles dykstra
  1035. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    It’s quite illegal in Europe and there is a pending bill before Congress.

    My my, you’ve blown it again.

    Only lies require bans on free speech & censorship.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  1036. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Some additional remarks.

    Korherr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Korherr on page 9 of the long version of his report mentions that:

    The evacuation of the Jews superseded the Jewish emigration, at least in the territory of the Reich. This evacuation was prepared after the prohibition of Jewish emigration in autumn 1941 on a large scale and was carried out extensively in the entire Reich territory in 1942.

    http://archive.is/QFQIC#selection-3623.0-3631.20

    Die Evakuierung der Juden löste, wenigstens im Reichsgebiet,
    die Auswanderung der Juden ab. Sie wurde seit dem Verbot der
    jüdischen Auswanderung ab Herbst 1941
    in großem Stile vor-
    bereitet und im Jahre 1942 im gesamten Reichsgebiet weit-
    gehend durchgeführt.

    http://archive.is/jmyy#selection-373.55-373.314

    So, according to Korherr, the Germans/Nazis permitted Jews to emigrate out of German-controlled territory until the fall/autumn of 1941, after Operation Barbarossa was already well under way.

    The early Belzec transit camp was likely part of the “Nisko project[/Plan]” http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/radicalisation_01.shtml

    The plan was developed in September 1939 after the invasion of Poland and implemented between October 1939 and April 1940, […] In 1942, the so-called “Territorial Solution to the Jewish question”[11] was abandoned in favour of the “Final Solution to the Jewish Question”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Reservation

    Eichmann also set up a transit camp in Nisko, a town on the western border of the Lublin district, from which the deportees were to be expelled eastward.[15]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Reservation#Lublin_reservation

    This is likely what “It was local Nazi practice to force Jews to leave and herd them over the border” was about.

    It is noteworthy that there is no hint in Himmler’s memorandum [“Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East”, a secret memorandum handed to Hitler by Himmler on 25 May 1940“] of any intention or plan to physically exterminate, ie kill en masse, any part of the population of German-occupied Poland, not even of the Jews.

    http://archive.is/gkjEU#selection-891.0-891.209

    During his testimony and a cross-examination by Irving, Browning countered Irving’s suggestion that the last chapter of the Holocaust has yet to be written (implying there were grounds for doubting the reality of the Shoah) by replying: “We are still discovering things about the Roman Empire. There is no last chapter in history.“[7]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning#Witness_in_David_Irving_vs._Deborah_Lipstadt_case

    Browning categorically rejected Irving’s claim that there was no reliable statistical information on the size of the pre-war Jewish population in Europe, or on the killing processes; he asserted that the only reason why historians debate whether five or six million [or an even substantially lower figure] Jews were killed in the Holocaust is a lack of access to archives in the former Soviet Union.

    I believe that this statement by Christopher Browning lends credence to my assertion that “my “musings about the Jewish demographics in Russia” are extremely relevant to determine the true extent of the Holocaust.”

    The ball’s in your court, Anon[360]

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  1037. Paul C. says:
    @anarchyst

    How will they cease to exist? Many people already know this. The zionist banking cabal that created Israel has full control not only of the US but most of the world via their control of the money supply & wealth. They create money (actually debt) and charge the governments and their citizens interest. Full scale dominance.

    As more truth leaks out through the internet, more censorship will occur. This will limit the public’s knowledge and history will continue to be written by our adversary, chock full of lies.

    I do feel awareness is growing but perhaps there was a similar level of awareness 40 years ago.. let’s say. Is it enough to change anything? Another issue is that many people don’t want to know the truth.

  1038. Erebus says:
    @crimson2

    You don’t even try to defend your fabrication.

    L.K. didn’t fabricate anything. Van Pelt’s meaning, and the context he says it in is clear to anyone with a modicum of reading comprehension. He wants our knowledge of the Holocaust to drift into the same category of “knowledge” as people have of Christ’s resurrection. That too was “witnessed”.

    From your quote of Van Pelt:

    I don’t think that the Holocaust is an exceptional case in that sense. We in the future – remembering the Holocaust – will operate in the same way that we remember most things from the past.

    Most things by most people maybe, and maybe 1000 yrs from now, but not history by historians.
    In my home town, remains of soldiers that fell during the War of 1812, along with their eqpt are still popping up. That’s physical evidence of a small, local battle that happened more than 2C ago. That physical evidence is what’s missing from the tale of the Holocaust that ostensibly happened on an orders of magnitude greater scale, and in living memory, speaks volumes to its lack of historical veracity.

    • Replies: @Crimson2
  1039. Bukowski says:
    @cassandra

    A lot of the quotes attributed to Hitler are outright fakes and others are taken out of context.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8451

    • Replies: @Wally
  1040. Crimson2 says:
    @Erebus

    The first sentence of the quote is fabricated. You are too stupid follow the conversation, so maybe keep your filthy Nazi mouth shut, huh?

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @annamaria
  1041. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    said”
    “I don’t debate worthless Nazi dipshits like you. I embarrassed LK as a brief, free service. I seriously hope that you meet the same fate as the victims you claim never existed.
    Let me know when anyone of even minor importance takes a Holocaust denier seriously.”

    IOW, you still cannot provide proof for your claimed ‘millions of murdered Jews’. Jheeesh! LOL

    You thought for a moment, in your low IQ, redneck Zionist brain, that you embarrassed LK, but my response to you shattered that fantasy. LOL

    Why do you want ‘millions of Jews’ to be dead? We bring you good news, they were not murdered, you should be elated. Get help, now.

    You obviously take Revisionists serious since you ARE in fact here. LOL

    Politicians all over the west obviously take Revisionits very seriously, after all, Europe as banned free speech because of Revisionist research and the US Congress has an anti free speech bill pending.
    Only lies require banning of free speech.

    You are in over your head. You have no chance in debate, as demonstrated here. Your surrender is accepted. Cheers.
    Live long & prosper.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1042. @Heros

    Unz needs to add this to protect honorable goyim from those same lying and blood sacrificing jews that faked the holocaust and projected their own guilt for WWI and WWII back onto the Germans.

    How “honorable” are you if you are so stupid and weak-minded as to fall for such transparent bullshit? To believe the most engineering focused people in the world devised such an absurdly incompetent method of extermination and left behind more “Holocaust victims” than there were Jews in the region to start? The story passes the bullshit sniff test about as well as their fable about “New, Improved, God & Son, YHWH & Yeshua.”

    Don’t blame Jews for their storytelling, blame the imbeciles who mistake fiction for reality. It’s the same kind of people who think Marxism can work in practice and who believe Joseph Smith’s Planet Kolob retardation or L Ron Hubbard’s crappy sci-fi. Stupidity has a cost. And ironically, in the end, Jews will wind up paying an enormous price for the gullibility of us goyim and a catastrophic cost for their belief in their own silly mythology. Demography is destiny, there are well over a billion Mohamsters and just 20-25 million Jews, and the Mohamsters already have nuclear weapons in Pakistan. Jews will either be exterminated by Mohamsters or subsumed in the African tidal wave of fecundity promulgated as a direct result of their Yeshuan Tinkerbell fairy tale.

    Hating them is silly, pitying them is more appropriate.

  1043. Anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    would immediately see that the facilities under discussion are what they were overtly designed to be

    Did the camps pre-exist their use during the Holocaust?

  1044. @redmudhooch

    It will be interesting to see if this will ever see light of day.

  1045. I think this article and the resulting thread inadvertently demonstrates the value of permitting free discussion of anything.

    The Holocaust deniers haven’t presented any convincing arguments that I have seen, but have, on the contrary, repeatedly resorted to just about every fraudulent rhetorical device in the book.

    Naturally, nothing can ever been known with perfect certainty (Unz Review itself could merely be a dream, and shortly I’ll wake up). However, generally when the partisans of a particular position are unable to come up with valid arguments for that position, it suggests it’s false.

    I emerge more perfectly certain of the reality of the Holocaust than I was before this thread appeared.

    That wouldn’t have happened if Unz Review hadn’t published this article.

    • Troll: Beefcake the Mighty, L.K
    • Replies: @j2
    , @annamaria
  1046. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Wow, right out of mandated junior high presentations. A laughable display.
    All the same nonsense which has already been debunked. The map is cute, but complete Zionist BS.

    There is no proof for “extermination camps”. Zionists just saying so doesn’t make it so.

    I challenge you to show us the alleged immense human remains that Jews claim they know the exact locations of.

    said: “The second point is that camps like Belzec, really, likely, initially, served as transit camps and not as extermination camps.”
    There is no proof that the transit function ever magically morphed into “extermination” .

    I challenge to explain to us how Jews were supposedly murdered at Belzec and show us the alleged human remains that said to still be there, but they are not.
    see :
    Belzec in Propaganda, Testimonies, Archeological Research, and History, By Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/1191/?lang=en
    book version:and:
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers
    By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

    Korherr report says nothing about murdering Jews and is easily debunked & set straight:
    The Razor and the Ring, by John Weir : https://codoh.com/library/document/3008/?lang=en
    more overwhelming research: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=korherr+report

    The Korherr Report is explained by Richard Korherr himself.

    The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:
    “It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician…is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned.”
    Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler’s order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

    The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word “died” in this context.

    It was precisely the term “special treatment” (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.

    Dr. Richard Korherr
    Braunschweig

    Why are you citing Zionist controlled Wikipedia? It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    http://www.codoh.com

  1047. @crimson2

    ‘Why do you lying cowards keep claiming this? It’s not illegal in the US and you idiots have as much success convincing people here as anywhere else. You are outcasts and rejects and hated by your own families because of your incredibly stupid ideas, not because of some conspiracy against you. Sad’

    Oh calm down. They’ll still get invited to Thanksgiving dinner. They’re just wrong.

    It actually would help a lot if people didn’t attempt to suppress Holocaust denial. There are people who believe Sandy Hook was staged. There are people who believe the Moon landings were faked.

    By and large, others don’t fret about them. They don’t get anywhere, because the body of evidence against them is overwhelming. It’s like holding that Richard Ramirez is innocent and should go free.

    Ditto for the Holocaust. In fact, up to about forty years ago that’s what happened. There was a fringe group of Holocaust deniers, they raved away, and nobody fretted about them. It worked great.

    • Replies: @crimson2
    , @Otterboy
  1048. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    My comment #1071 utterly demolishes FKA’s irrational claims.

    See his shyster Christopher Browning shot down here:
    Christopher Browning and the “Nazi Gas Chambers” of Belzec, By Paul Grubach : https://codoh.com/library/document/962/?lang=en
    and:
    The Final Solution: A Response to Christopher Browning, A Review By Paul Grubach: https://codoh.com/library/document/162/?lang=en
    and:
    Grubach demolishes Browning and the Eichmann tales: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5262
    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=christopher+browning

    http://www.codoh.com

  1049. Crimson2 says:

    None of the deniers can bring themselves to admit that LKs quote is a fabrication? I wonder why no one will debate pathetic liars like you guys.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1050. JackOH says:
    @peterAUS

    peterAUS, thanks. I think it’s worth asking whether the blackening of WWII-era Germans is acting as psychological cover for the Allies’ own misdeeds of that time, and, among American political elites, that same blackening is a laissez-passer for American military misadventures in Vietnam, the Middle East, and so on, and, likewise, American support of Israel.

    The idea isn’t very deep-think at all. In a nutshell, it’s something like: We Americans helped defeat those naughty Germans. So, we aren’t like them at all. We aren’t like them, even when we behave a bit like them.

    As I’d mentioned occasionally in my previous comments, we have serious 21st century challenges to deal with, and to meet those challenges we have to somehow move on from our fixedness on the horrific excesses and miscalculations of the European 1914-1945 period.

  1051. phil says:
    @EugeneGur

    The Soviets had a 3/1 tank advantage and had their forces in offensive formations. They had many tanks that could travel up to 60 miles per hour on paved roads, which the Germans had but the Soviets didn’t. The Germans were not ready for war, but aerial surveillance showed what the Soviets were up to. By attacking first the Germans were able quickly to encircle the forward-leaning Soviets and rout them.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @Cyrano
  1052. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “I wouldn’t be surprised if Eastern Germans are mostly Slavic.”

    Of course they are. In Germany there are three main Y-DNA haplogroups, RB1 in the West, I1 in the North and R1a in the East. R1a are of Slavic origins. Indeed, there was no Germany before it unified. There was Poland (which incidentally has only Y-DNA R1a and is one people, unlike Germans) before the divisions of Poland. Eastern Prussia spoke German, but those were the old Teutonic knights who had mixed with locals, so why to unify people who spoke German, like unifying people who speak English.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anonymous
  1053. Erebus says:
    @Crimson2

    The first sentence of the quote is fabricated.

    I don’t think the situation is so clear.

    The first part of L.K.’s quote can be seen on a number of other websites, including foreign language sites, and including ones dating from a few days after the article. Some are rather obvious cut ‘n pastes.

    It’s not there now, to be sure, but that The Star scrubbed the sentence is not beyond possibility and your accusation based on the current webpage is too harsh.

    As for the rest of your little temper tantrum… LOL!

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1054. Heros says:
    @crimson2

    This meme illustrates what is going on with all the crypto’s in the unz.com comments section. Just as with our perverted and upside down satanic reality, its the jews.

  1055. phil says:
    @Skeptikal

    There is no documentary evidence for gas chambers, just the testimony of dishonest and delusional witnesses. Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec (T, S, and B) did not have crematoria, despite the claim that they were intended as “extermination” camps. Other camps, which no one claims were extermination camps, did have crematoria because there was so much disease. As documented in the Holocaust Handbooks (esp. SOBIBOR), thousands of Jews per week transited into Byelorussia, Ukraine, and the Baltics and were eventually resettled in thousands of different camps and ghettoes. No doubt many died doing forced-labor. After the war, as reported in the Jewish Press, Stalin rounded-up Jews in the Western USSR for another mass deportation to the Russian East. Others made their way to Displaced Persons camps in the West or to Palestine.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  1056. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > That many more Jews managed to escape to Russia before Operation Barbarossa commenced than is generally accepted/reported and did not perish in the Holocaust

    You have no evidence of this, obviously.

    > The second point is that camps like Belzec, really, likely, initially, served as transit camps and not as extermination camps.

    Since of course it wasn’t a transit camp (since there was nowhere to transit the Jews and the deniers cannot name a single Jew so transited even for 1000$ per name http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/07/challenge-to-supporters-of-revisionist.html ) what was your point again?

    > In my opinion, a substantial number of Jews that were reported as being “processed” in the Korherr Report were actually really sent into the Russian sector/zone and not exterminated.

    Obviously if they were to be transited somewhere, they also had to arrive somewhere and stay somewhere. Let’s see you document these propositions. Also let’s see at least one documented name of such a person. You get 1000$ for a name, as per the above challenge.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  1057. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > I believe that this statement by Christopher Browning lends credence to my assertion that “my “musings about the Jewish demographics in Russia” are extremely relevant to determine the true extent of the Holocaust.”

    > The ball’s in your court, Anon[360]…

    Since the archives are available now (http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/10/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-6.html) and the previously cited numbers (uncritically lapped up by the deniers) have been established to be nothing but exaggerations, your musings are indeed absolutely irrelevant.

    Now back to my question about the 320000 Hungarian Jews deported (among the 430000) in 1944 to Auschwitz, but neither found fit for labor, nor registered in the camp. Where did they go?

  1058. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    So is the denial of the Communist crimes.

    http://www.proyectos.cchs.csic.es/transitionaljustice/content/legislation-denial-crimes

    I guess you dismiss Communist crimes as lies too, then.

  1059. Otterboy says:
    @crimson2

    @crimson

    ” You would cut a Jew’s throat if you thought you could get away with it. You know it and I know”

    I was born Jewish. Originally orthodox and zionist, then later just zionist. Now I’m neither. Just a universal human being

    Your paranoid projection is telling and I’m very familiar with it. Having witnessed Israeli Jews treating Palestinians like the nazis supposedly treated the Jews was my turning point. That was over 40 years ago long before even the word ‘Hamas’ was invented. And back in London, my Jewish community would treat the “goyim” with contempt and work out how to screw and exploit them as hard as they can. And they just sit there thinking that the goyim are so dumb that they don’t notice who’s causing their misery. And when they try and call it out they are immediately attacked as antisemites. The resentment builds and builds….

    Right now the Zionist Jews have teamed up with the right wing side of the labour party to try and topple Jeremy Corbyn. Why? Because he’s always supported the Palestinians and always criticised israel. So he has to go! And what we have are prominent Jews from a whole spectrum of society (mp’s, rabbis, journalists) hammering him as hard as they can claiming that he’s the biggest antisemite since Hitler and they won’t feel safe in a Corbyn led government. Every day they invoke images of the alleged holocaust to try and make their points. This is the most ridiculous and far fetched claim about a man who has always stood against all forms of racism. But his huge sin is that he’s openly critical of Israel and supports the Palestinians. So organised Jewish power turns out to topple him. But it’s backfiring and right now we are witnessing a huge fight back from his supporters and they know exactly what’s going on and who’s behind it. And as they begin to publicly call it out they also become accused of being antisemitic but they’re not buying it this time.

    What the Jewish community never seem to realise is it’s their nefarious actions that cause the resentment, not some phantom irrational hatred called antisemitism. One causes the other

    But back in the day, when I argued these issues with my Jewish family and previous friends it was they that wanted to cut my throat. So deep is the denial about their actions that their response is always shouting coupled with threats of violence

    I have watched many children return from their brainwashing trips to Auschwitz, traumatised and believing every gentile is out to kill them. Watch the Israeli made film “Defamation”. It’s free to watch on YouTube

    I now see my previous life as being part of a cult and also quite traumatic. Cult members only trust and believe other members of the cult and are brainwashed to believe that everyone else is against them and would like to kill them. They also tend to believe that their actions and beliefs are perfect and have no idea or self awareness as to why others might be criticising them, which they put down to irrational hatred towards them. What they can’t see that it’s the actions of the group that causes the criticism. But in their minds because they are the chosen, perfect ones, the criticism must be simply pure irrational hatred which is the mainstream Jewish view of what antisemitism supposedly is. The one thing they hate the most is when a cult member goes rogue, like me.

    I want nothing more to do with that cult but they can live in peace and do what they want as long as they are not harming anyone else. But quite a few of them would love to slit my throat, and not just physically attack and beat me up which has happened in the past, simply because I speak out against their actions and the official narrative of their history. And if they could do it and get away with it they would. I have other Jewish friends here in London who are also physically attacked by Jewish nazis (JDL) for going rogue, being a “traitor” and speaking out. You might think this is all made up and far fetched but you would because you are firmly in the cult, as evidenced by your reply to me which is a pure projection of misplaced paranoia

    It’s a cult which manufacturers and transmits trauma constantly through each generation to keep the cult together and going strong. The alleged holocaust narrative is the most important part of that process today

    You said that you would not read my reply. Great. So in that case I won’t expect any reply from you and please don’t. This comment is more for the benefit of others reading the article and comments

  1060. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Who the hell is he?

    Jonnie Hargis is the dicktator at the Animal Farm of CODOH (http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/02/codoh-forum-that-moderated-itself-to.html), who tries to cover for his extremely low intelligence and non-existent knowledge by employing hardcore censorship, not allowing any open debate on his “Open Debate” forum. I hear he is retired now and loves to spam random nonsensical stuff in comments sections of a site or two…

    One demonstration of his clownish nature will suffice. Despite being a Nazi fanboy, Hargis doesn’t understand any German, so when presented with a list of German camps that contained the word “Verschiedene” (“different”, “miscellaneous”) he commented:

    https://archive.is/IqdoO#selection-2275.41-2275.52

    “I also see a work camp I never heard of, Vershiedene.”

    What a doofus, right?

    > Please present your so called “documents”. We await.

    Already have above, but for the slow on the uptake:

  1061. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    > I see you as insulting his intellect

    He has insulted himself by repeating the most primitive deniers memes (in fact, I will be the first to concede that deniers can do much better than these twitter memes) without any apparent attempt at factchecking them.

    > as well as his moral character

    His moral character follows directly from the things he wrote in his article (and I don’t even mean the Holocaust denial stuff, but the pure hateful stuff).

    > if you suggest he might need to or would lie (consciously say something untrue for some sort of personal gain excluding only the “you look lovely in it” lies for harmony)

    He impeaches the mainstream historians for fake reasons (such as not discussing the irrelevant (because exceptional) Milch case at length), but he doesn’t impeach the deniers for the obvious lies he laps up without having taking time to factcheck them.

    So *at the very least* he employs double standards. That’s dishonest in my book.

    > he can admit error

    Let’s see him admit his errors in response to this refutation:

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1062. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    Actually the gas chambers are documented: https://twitter.com/AgainstDenial/status/1030556157792997377

    Obviously, the Reinhardt camps Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec were not the transit camps to the “Russian East”, deniers still can’t name a single name of a Jew so transited, even for 1000$ per name.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/07/challenge-to-supporters-of-revisionist.html

    • Replies: @phil
    , @Wally
  1063. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > I have no umlaut on my keyboard.

    How is this relevant, when you know full well (you know German, right? or are you just like Mr. KL Vershiedene?) that Umlauts can be officially replaced with ae/ue/oe? So you could have written “Pruefer” instead.

    > His statements about cremation time & capabilities were not “confessions”, they were answers to SMERSCH.

    So you claim that they were not tortured to given their testimonies to SMERSH (not “SMERSCH”; what’s with you getting all the spelling wrong)?

    BTW, as a side note, your claims about cremation have been fully debunked http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/09/short-debunking-of-steven-andersons.html#cremationexplained but let’s see you address my question about Pruefer (sic).

  1064. @Colin Wright

    @ Colin Wright.

    Your post begins with a lie. David Irving has not published any such evidence on his website. For years, Irving’s shifting positions have been a mystery to revisionsists, and remain a mystery to this day. If he has evidence, he should bring it forward.

    As far as the rest, “the holocaust” is not merely a lie, it is a collection of preposterous whoppers. Real gut busters, like the Barber of Treblinka or Dr Leon wells, who testified he was led to his work by the Ash Commander, who wore a devil’s costume complete with a hook on his hand, and forced the Jews to make up songs while they walked to work, accompanied by a 60 piece orchestra. And they actually hanged a man on the basis of such nutty drivel.

    There is ZERO evidence for “the holocaust”, and “the holocaust” is merely a pile of laughable nonsense told by people who benefit either financially or socially.

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-022-02.html

  1065. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Pay attention I gave them to you

    You haven’t actually.

    > Only a True Believer anti-science Zionist would think that the Germans could have cremated people much faster than today’s state of the art crematoriums.

    The difference lies not in the technology, but in the procedure, long ago explained at holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/09/short-debunking-of-steven-andersons.html#cremationexplained

    Any counterarguments?

    > An “extermination camp” where thousands of Jews chose to stay behind when the Germans left.

    Source about them having “chosen” this?

    > An “extermination camp” where most of the inmates, more thousands, chose to leave WITH the Germans.

    Source about them having “chosen” this?

    > An “extermination camp” where 1,250,000 human remains are supposedly buried, but no one can show us these remains.

    Who said they’re buried there? Source?

    > An “extermination camp” where many Jews gave birth.

    The history of the Theresienstadt family camp (which was a propaganda section of the camp where a few thousand Jews were allowed to live with their kids probably in wait of a possible Red Cross inspection visit (which never materialized) – before they were gassed one day) is well publicized, a well-known part of proven history. What do you think you have proven?

    > An “extermination camp” where the absurdly alleged homicidal ‘gas chambers’ could not have worked as alleged, as proven repeatedly, scientifically impossible.

    Could have so worked, were not so proven. What was your point again?

    > An “extermination camp” where fake ‘gas chambers’ were “reconstructed” AFTER THE WAR.

    A lie, only one such gas chamber of a lesser significance was so reconstructed (air-raid shelter walls were demolished, openings in the ceiling were reopened). That doesn’t exactly prove anything.

    > An “extermination camp” where detailed aerial photos of the period show nothing that is alleged to have been happening.

    A lie, debunked at http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-auschwitz-open-air-incineration.html

    > An “extermination camp” where there are even obvious, laughable attempts to tamper with aerial photos that make a mockery of the fake storyline.

    No such attempts have been made. https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/see-no-evil/

    > An “extermination camp” where there are countless Jew “survivors”.

    Yes. And?

    > An “extermination camp” where so called “survivors” say the most impossible and conflicting things that do not hold up to scrutiny, would be laughed out of a legit court of law.

    Some do (as with any big event), most don’t.

    > Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:

    How do you know the people on the first photo are Jews and healthy?

    The children on the second photo are mostly Mengele twins: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#unfit

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1066. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    The photo tells us nothing about the existence of the *holes*, and the chimneys were obviously added later.

  1067. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @L.K

    > Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove.

    I’m afraid this is so for most of human history.

  1068. @Erebus

    Thinking and writing about how to perpetrate mass murder is repugnant to me.
    But after the asserted holocaust killings were described as scientific I could not help wondering how I would design an effcient killing factory.
    If what I described would have functioned, no idea, just wanted to show the contrast between the asserted method in Birkenau, and a well (?) designed installation.

  1069. @Anon

    Logistically it was impossible to transport 400.000 jews in july and august 1944 from Hungary.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1070. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “The Holocaust deniers haven’t presented any convincing arguments that I have seen, but have, on the contrary, repeatedly resorted to just about every fraudulent rhetorical device in the book.”

    I am not a Holocaust denier. God can make miracles, so more Jews could die in Western Poland what there were, but mathematically it is problematic. Could you solve this simple problem?

    Western Poland, the area occupied by Germans in 1939, had maximum 1.84M Jews in 1939, very probably some 300,000 less, but let us accept the upper bound 1.84M, following from Polish census of 1931 and agreeing with AJC estimates, 3.25M Jews in Poland in 1939. The number of Jews taken by Nazis from all occupied countries except for Poland and the Soviet Union of 1940 (includes the Baltic states) was 1.12M, at most 1.2M. Nazis transported Jews from West to East, but there were small transports from East to camps in Western Poland, likewise there were small transports to Minsk etc. In total these transports brought to Western Poland 60,000 Jews. Thus, in Western Poland could not be more than 1.84+1.2+0.06=3.1M Jews.

    According to the official story there died 1.1M in Auschwitz, 1.45M in Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec, 0.15M in Chelmno, at least 0.06M in Majdanek. These sum to 2.76M.

    There survived 410,000 Jews in concentration camps, that is all from West. 80,000 were not captured by Nazis in Western Poland. That is 0.49M. Adding this to 2.76M gives 3.25M. This is already larger than 3.1M, but there were other camps and deaths in them.

    In camps in Germany died 0.3M, in Theresienstadt 0.03M, in ghettos and labor camps in Poland about 0.168M, that is 0.498M.

    Some Jews must have died in the German attack of 1939 and the terror after that. Poles died some 500,000, so Jews 10% of that gives 50,000. In Warsaw ghetto uprising died 7,000 Jews. Thus, in battles died some 57,000 Western Polish Jews.

    Adding 3.25M+0.498M+0.057M=3.805M, yet there were only 3.1M. How is the sum of dead and survivors 705,000 larger than the number of Jews who could have been in Western Poland?

    The only explanation is that 1.1M did not die in Auschwitz. There died maximum 700,000 less, that is 400,000 Jews. This alone proves that the official story is false.

    “haven’t presented any convincing arguments that I have seen”
    So, now you have seen an argument that is just basic addition and subtraction and is very strong. Just go through those numbers, you will find all from the web. Use as reliable sources as you find, do not ask for my sources as you would not accept my sources anyway, but you get the same result from any figures that you think are reliable, because these figures are commonly agreed on. There can be small variations, but nothing to change the conclusion.

    As the official story is false, and there is no strong evidence that unregistered Jews were killed in Auschwitz, we can conclude that the Jewish death toll in Auschwitz was only about 60,000, deaths of the registered inmates. The remaining 340,000 Jews were not in Western Poland, because the Jewish population in 1939 was not 3.25M, it was 2.75M and therefore the Jewish population in Western Poland was not 1.84M, it was about 1.5M in 1939. These Polish Jews, the 0.5M, were in France and other Western European countries and were included in the Jewish populations of those countries.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1071. @Anon

    Now back to my question about the 320000 Hungarian Jews deported (among the 430000) in 1944 to Auschwitz, but neither found fit for labor, nor registered in the camp. Where did they go?

    I don’t know, but Lazslo (Laszlo?) Bernath who was in Ausschwitz said in The Guardian that he had never heard of gas chambers while there. Only after the war he was told about the gas chambers. I don’t know where he is now, whether in the UK or in Israel. Also Hedi Böhm said (in Der Spiegel) that she had never heard of gas chambers. I also saw on tv an Israeli who had been in a concentration camp and said that he only got knowledge of the H. after the war. On the other hand there is A. N., a woman, who said that she was in the line to the gas chamber in Ausschwitz and was only saved because they run out of gas on that day. She told how she was later liberated in Ausschwitz by American troops (she goes to schools to tell her story, I read in a local US newspaper in internet). Yesterday I heard on tv about the case of a woman from Latvia who was sent to a concentration camp together with her mother. On arriving there they were forced to take a colective shower with other prisioners who had arrived with them. The purpose of the shower was desinfection. After the shower her mother got clothes and decided to leave or escape the concentration camp. They survived founding work in farms. After the war the mother married again and immigrated to Israel. A few years later in the 50s they decided that Germany was a better place than Israel to live and the daughgter who was very young during the war still lives in or near Köln.

    Do you know about the case of some people who were in concentration camps and never heard about gas chambers and how this was possible?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1072. Hans says:
    @peterAUS

    Careful, peterAUS, with the “African Blacks were being imported to do stoop labor for Southern Whites” stuff. It’s liable to provoke Mr. Unz into delving into the Slave Trade topic which gets similarly very messy.

    Poor Dr. Tony Martin had the misfortune to dabble in taboo facts and stray from the “academic” plantation and ended up in all sorts of academic “difficulties” –

    As always, all animals/facts are equal but some are…

  1073. crimson2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    They;re not “just wrong.” Only some are fooled. Most of these people are lying because they love the idea of mass murdering Jews (and gays and blacks and etc.). They’re Nazis and denying their existence is dangerous and stupid.

    As for suppression, I’ve already stated that I don’t agree with it, though I understand it.

    And screw you for thinking Sandy Hook denial is innocent fun. Those bastards harass the families of the victims. It’s disgusting.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1074. crimson2 says:
    @Otterboy

    I was born Jewish

    Stopped reading there. Every other Nazi and denialist online was born Jewish. Sell it elsewhere.

  1075. crimson2 says:
    @Erebus

    The first part of L.K.’s quote can be seen on a number of other websites, including foreign language sites, and including ones dating from a few days after the article. Some are rather obvious cut ‘n pastes.

    If a lie is repeated multiple times on the internet, then it must be true. Is this your actual argument? Wow.

    Also, notice that none of those sites ever linked to the actual article. Hmmm…

    It’s not there now, to be sure, but that The Star scrubbed the sentence is not beyond possibility and your accusation based on the current webpage is too harsh.

    It’s a shame not a single Nazi was smart enough to grab a screenshot or find the print edition, eh?

    You embarrassed yourself, but at least you attempted to respond to the fabrication. I’ll give you that.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1076. Mike P says:
    @Otterboy

    This comment is more for the benefit of others reading the article and comments

    Indeed. Thank you sincerely for writing it down, and I salute you for your courage.

  1077. @phil

    As well, there is simply no archaeological evidence for the massive excavations, requisition of fuel, etc. that would have had to take place if the story of the AR camps was true (burial in mass graves, disinterrment, burning in open-air pyres).

  1078. j2 says:
    @crimson2

    “Serious question: let’s assume all of Unz’s nonsense is correct. Let’s say the Jews have fabricated this whole thing. Let’s say that Jews are fundamentally dishonest. Now, what do you want to do? They have freedom of speech, right? So, what’s your next move? What would you do if you were in charge?”

    I had to think about this for a while, but you pose it as a serious question and serious questions deserve an answer.

    I would create a Holohoax Memorial Day. In this day in each school, whose program is approved by the state, there would be education of what was Holohoax, how people were cheated, who did it, and for what purpose. Pupils would be required to write short story of how they experience this cheating and why it is bad. Additionally, the teacher would go through in different years different events of interest, where the perpetrators are the same people, such as the JFK murder, 911 attacks and, the wars in Palestine 1948, 1967 and later, and so on. In addition to schools, there would be public speeches by the president and others of how this could have happened and how it must be never again. Never again would be one of the themes. There would be articles investigating related issues. There would be visits to Holocaust museums with guides, who would explain the real story and how it relates to what is on display.

    As for Jews, probably quite many of them would convert to Christianity as they would not like to be associated with this hoax, but they would have the freedom of speech and could make counter-propaganda, but not in schools s proven falsities should not be taught to children.

    Maybe something like that, educate the youth. Never again.

  1079. Deschutes says:
    @redmudhooch

    Thank you AnnaMaria for the into on this film, which looks very interesting. I can’t believe the film has been banned. Do you/anybody reading this post know of a link to watch the whole film? The linked trailer is damning evidence against Milstein and Canary Mission. Milstein’s rants reveal how unhinged he is when he describes Palestinian human rights defenders as-

    • ‘anti-democracy’ – defending Palestinians living under apartheid is ‘anti-democratic’!? How is that?;
    • ‘racist’ – how is sticking up for an oppressed people racist? Quite the opposite in fact;
    • ‘bigots’ – how is sticking up for Palestinians being a ‘bigot’? Nonsense.
    • ‘anti-freedom’ – siding with those who have live under occupation is anti-freedom? He is crazy;
    • ‘anti-christian’- Christ always taught to help the oppressed and poor;
    • ‘terrorists’ – that’s right: peacefully demonstrating is ‘terrorism’. Yep (NOT);

    It’s like these pro-Israel Milstein et al groups in USA have brainwashed themselves into believing their own fictional caricatures of human rights groups. The excessive amount of spying, blacklisting and subterfuge is disgustingly unethical. What nasty, morally and ethically bankrupt people.

  1080. @Anon

    Source about them having “chosen” this?

    LOL

    In Chapter 5 of Night, why did the camp evacuate, and what happened to those who stayed behind at the hospital?

    “Well, Father, what do we do?”
    He was silent.
    “Let’s be evacuated with the others,” I said.
    He didn’t answer. He was looking at my foot.
    “You think you’ll be able to walk?”
    “Yes, I think so.”
    “Let’s hope we won’t regret it, Eliezer.”
    AFTER THE WAR, I learned the fate of those who had remained at the infirmary. They were, quite simply, liberated by the Russians, two days after the evacuation.

    Elie Wiesel [wikipedia.org]

    Books By Elie Wiesel [amazon.com]


    Night (Night Trilogy) Kindle Edition

    • Replies: @Anon
  1081. Otterboy says:
    @JSM

    Believe me they say even much worse than that. I know, I used to be part of the cult

    Just look at what these nazis are doing to the Palestinians and anyone else who gets in their way. That will give you some idea about his “other means”. If they could genocide all the remaining Palestinians and get away with it they’d do it in an instant

    Crimson suffers from a serious psychosis which another blogger has described as “chosenite derangement syndrome”. Very apt and extremely telling with his very severe anti-gentilism

    • Replies: @JSM
    , @Anonymous
  1082. Otterboy says:
    @crimson2

    So you did start reading it? I knew you couldn’t help yourself you paranoid zio-nazi who will support any crime commited by the cult as long as it’s good for the cult

    Your anti-gentilism is quite severe and a symptom of Chosenite Derangement Syndrome. As I said you can’t debate your kind because it always ends up very quickly with abuse and then threats such as wanting to shut me up by “other means”. We have a good idea what those other means are because we can see what you are doing to the Palestinians. It’s a deep form of paranoid denial which is why you nutters always behave in this way.

    Please go and project your psychosis elsewhere

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1083. @j2

    You usually make great comments, but I’m afraid you’re seriously in error here: crimson2’s question is neither serious nor honest and deserves no kind of response.

  1084. @crimson2

    I believe he was born Jewish because he writes so much better and comes across as so much more intelligent than the Wallys, Arts and other anti Semitic infestors of these threads. What degree of belief? Not 100 per cent, but high. I suppose I am affected by the quality of intellect of some professional men of Jewish background that I have heard on the subject of Israel. He is no dummy.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
    , @Art
  1085. phil says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Obviously, Solzhenitsyn didn’t have any statistics and was not there for the various incidents, real or alleged. Hillberg admitted in court that there was no evidence for Hitler having ordered mass killings or for the death numbers claimed by activist Jews. In fact, he often made very derogatory comments about prominent Jews, confirming negative stereotypes about them.

    Solzhenitsyn confirms that many Slavs in the USSR held to many of these same negative stereotypes and were strongly motivated to kill Jews in the anarchic conditions that developed during the war.

  1086. phil says:
    @Anon

    You said that deniers cannot name a single Jew who was transited though the Reinhardt camps.

    Siegmund Rothstein was in the Thereseinstadt camp in Bohemia, was sent to Teblinka, and ended up in Minsk. (See “One Single Jew,” by Germar Rudolf.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
    , @Anon
  1087. Erebus says:
    @crimson2

    You’re a total nutcase, but I’ll answer for readers who may be swayed by your ravings.

    Is this your actual argument?

    In a word, no. However, you obviously believe the Holocaust lie for the sole reason that it has been repeated verbally, in print, on film and on the internet as there can be no other reason to believe it. Indeed, I’ll confess to having believed it for that very reason myself at one time.

    Also, notice that none of those sites ever linked to the actual article.

    On the contrary, every single one of the contemporaneous pages I looked at before posting did (and still does). Even the foreign language sites.

    It’s a shame not a single Nazi was smart enough to grab a screenshot or find the print edition, eh?

    Leaving your Nazi fetish on the side, yes it is. Arguing, and quoting, in good faith is often a poor strategy when it comes to the liers that cling to the Holocaust like flies. Witness your responses to anyone trying to engage you in good faith on this thread.

    The reason that I believed LK’s quote is that I read that article when it was fresh, and I remember going “Wow, Van Pelt (who I knew in a previous life) has just stepped in it”, when I read it. Though I can’t be certain, I do believe that the the first part of the quote was in the original article.

    • Replies: @crimson2
    , @peterAUS
    , @L.K
  1088. @j2

    ‘…but those were the old Teutonic knights who had mixed with locals, so why to unify people who spoke German, like unifying people who speak English.’

    They should be, and were, unified because a people is not a matter of genetic identity, but of state of mind. A German is a German because he thinks he’s a German.

    A nation like Spain must be an almost perfect genetic stew — but the Spanish are indubitably a people. Conversely, Croats and Serbs presumably are genetically about the same — maybe I’m wrong there, but at a guess…

    Nevertheless, Yugoslavia didn’t work out. Genetics are interesting, and can put the lie to pseudo-historical mythologies, but they neither break a nation, nor make it.

  1089. phil says:

    The Treblinka camp was less than 1/18 of a square mile. The idea that there are the remains of 900,000 people under the ground there is laughable. The 1945 excavations showed very little and the search was aborted after a short time. Sturdy Colls work has not uncovered much either, and she cancelled a presentation when informed that deniers would be there with questions.

    The excavations at Belzac and Sobibor likewise do not support ridculous claims that “hundreds of thousands” of people were killed at those camps.

    Believers in Holocaust fables are advised to look at the excavations at Katyn for 4000+ Polish miltary officers murdered by the Soviets. The amount of land per corpse is many times larger than would have to be assumed for the Holocaust fables to be true. Contrary to popular belief, outdoor cremations don’t accomplish very much in economizing on the amount of land used, considering both the human ashes and the wood ashes produced by the continuous need for fuel to conduct the cremations. And aerial photos do not show deforestation in the areas near the camps.

    Historian Timothy Snyder, featured prominently in The New York Review of Books, cited Vassily Grossman as one of his main sources of information. Grossman claimed 3 million Teblinka deaths and that the road from Treblinka II was black with the ashes of the people cremated there. Totally laughable.

  1090. @Anon

    ‘…Jews aren’t going to make movie that put themselves in a bad light. White people can do this, but they won’t out of reverence to Jews or out of fear…’

    Thinking about this, cultural self-castigation seems to be more or less a monopoly of the German and Anglo-Saxon cultures. Who else does it with such enthusiasm?

    It’s striking to visit Japanese war memorials and museums and compare their attitude with that of the Germans. The German official story is still an almost morbidly exaggerated ‘we were so bad.’ They literally take it to the point of absurdity; for example, see the seriously promulgated notion that the Germans didn’t supply their (three million) troops in Russia so that they would eat up all the food of the (hundred million) or so Slavs they were going to conquer and all the Slavs would starve to death. Lessee, if each German eats 50,000 calories a day, then…

    Conversely, the Japanese have drifted at least partially into a narrative where (a) they were leading the anti-colonial struggle for liberation in Asia, and (b) they committed no atrocities at all.

    And of course the British and now white American penchant for self-denigration needs no documentation; just look at who retails all that nonsense about ‘Beckies.’ It’s not blacks.

    As with other aspects of the whole question, perhaps we shouldn’t complain if the Jews don’t criticize themselves. Rightly or wrongly, most peoples don’t. Russia, for example, only very briefly dipped her tippy-toe into the frigid waters of self-castigation over the whole Communist epoch and then drew back hastily. The French occasionally notice their sins — but always with an air of astonishment, and the implied qualification that this of course was very exceptional. Italy, through some mysterious alchemy, has avoided all responsibility for the whole fascist epoch. The official historical narratives of just about everyone else I can think of present a tale of remarkable virtue and utterly unprovoked abuse by inexplicably belligerent neighbors.

    ‘Us, do anything wrong?’ That really is the norm. It’s hardly surprising that Jews practice it as well.

  1091. j2 says:
    @phil

    “You said that deniers cannot name a single Jew who was transited though the Reinhardt camps.”

    There is no need to name them because counting how many Jews emigrated to Palestine, Israel, the USA, Canada and South Africa between 1946 and 1953 shows that there came 268,000 from the east.

    These Jews were very silent and refused to tell where they came from, but to appear in European DP camps indicates they came from Europe, almost all came from Eastern Europe, very few from Western Europe.

    Romanian (123,000) and Polish (104,000) Jews were separate groups and they identified their origins in Israel immigration. The 268,000 could not come from Romania, that is clear from the numbers. The 268,000 could not be born in the area of the Soviet Union of 1946 as they were allowed to depart the Communistic country, while Soviet Jews were not. Therefore they had to have come to the Soviet Union of 1946 through Operation Reinhardt camps. As they refused to say where they came from, we have no names, but we can deduce the number.

    • Replies: @Phil
    , @Phil
  1092. bj says:
    @Otterboy

    Outstanding comment! Thanks

  1093. Wally says:
    @phil

    Even Spielberg’s interviews with fake “survivors” who say laughably physically impossible things and contradict each other, state that they were transited through various Reinhardt camps, not to mention the British Bletchley Park intercepts which talk of thousand of Jews being transported out of ‘extermination camp’ Auschwitz and never mention gassings.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1094. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “Now back to my question about the 320000 Hungarian Jews deported (among the 430000) in 1944 to Auschwitz, but neither found fit for labor, nor registered in the camp. Where did they go?”

    From Auschwitz to other camps (there were many small labor camps, find the list for Poland) and eventually to Operation Reinhard camps if still alive, just like most sent to Auschwitz. Where is your proof that no Hungarian Jew was fit to labor? If not fit to labor, they were sent east.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1095. EugeneGur says:
    @Mike P

    It seems somehow Russian heritage and truth in historiography don’t go well together

    I always enjoy these racist remarks of yours, our “civilized” European neighbors. But you are right in a way, if truth in in historiography in defined as a narrative that suits you.

    I’ve had the privilege of being exposed to plenty of the Western style “truth in historiography”, and thank you, I’ll take ours any day.

    I’ll tell you a little story. One day I was at a conference in Berlin, and we were given a small brochure briefly describing the German history year by year and cultural attractions of the capital. You know what? The years 1933-1945 were omitted from that list – absent- just like that. Is that kind of “truth in historiography” you are looking for?

    If you are, then the Russian heritage is indeed a huge impediment.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  1096. JSM says:
    @Otterboy

    Thank you, Otter boy, for being a Righteous Jew. You and Ron Unz give me some modicum of
    hope that having my throat slit will not be my fate for the “crime” of wanting White people to be able to continue to exist and my White grandchildren to have futures. Here’s to the tiny chance that Righteous Jews like you will succeed in the end to convince your coethnics to knock it off with the anti-Gentilism.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @crimson2
  1097. Wally says:
    @Anon

    I see no documents which “document gas chambers”.
    I do see documents which do not say ‘gas chambers’. LOL

    Please tell us which of those are proof of impossible ‘gas chambers’. We await.

    I do see a debunked & laughable ‘gas vans’ fake document, see below. LOL

    I do see carbon dioxide mentioned on a faked piece of paper which has been tellingly cropped, no letter head, no stamps, no signature, something anyone with a German typewriter could and did forge. Truly desperate.

    The alleged ‘gas vans’ are truly laughable, no, idiotic.
    Imagine driving trucks around and wasting precious war time fuel and then trying to figure out what to do with the bodies.

    Yet again, just like the alleged 11,000,000 ‘holocaust’ total, there are no alleged enormous mass graves & necessary human remains to be seen.
    Indeed, the alleged vans are said to have been diesel, meaning an impossible mass murder weapon. Like I said, idiotic.
    recommended:
    Gas Vans / Wagons – fiction or fact?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11860

    And why would this be necessary if they were factual:
    Gas Van Film and Photo Fraud, German News Magazine and Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Museum Caught Faking Photo and Film Captions: http://codoh.com/library/document/3276
    much more:
    NEWS! magazine & Wiesenthal Ctr. caught faking ‘gas vans‘!: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8534
    and:
    Excellent debunking of the comical ‘gas vans’ with many links and references at:
    Chelmno again‘: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75
    see:
    The Gas Vans, A Critical Study: https://codoh.com/library/document/1206/?lang=en
    ://www.barnesreview.org/images/large/GasVans_LRG.jpg
    and:
    Gas Vans – forgeries galore!: https://codoh.com/library/document/342/?lang=en
    further demolition:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=gas+vans+

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1098. Heros says:
    @Otterboy

    “I was born Jewish. Originally orthodox and zionist, then later just zionist. Now I’m neither. Just a universal human being”

    “Universal human being” sounds very athiest and very marxist to me. Are you a marxist then?

    I gather from your comments that you are both of jewish heritage and a “denier”. Ron Unz has hung onto his plausible denier deniability by stating that it is “highly likely” that the narrative has “errors”. I do appreciate any help from your side for our Christian cause. One of the reasons I am so disgusted with jews is because for centuries they have lied and cheated and covered up for their perverted Rabbis, all the while watching their hosts, who had offered these same persecuted jews refuge, get cheated and abused and even murdered.

    What I would like to know is how far have you gone down the rabbit hole.
    – Do you believe that jews planned and carried out 9/11?
    – Do you believe that the Rothschild family have controlled certain Freemason lodges for centuries?
    – Do you believe that jews ran the slave trade and still have control of narcotics across the planet?
    – Do you believe that jews still practice ritual child bloodletting and sacrifice?

    Thanks in advance for your honesty.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1099. Phil says:
    @j2

    Good information. Thank you.

  1100. crimson2 says:
    @j2

    I would create a Holohoax Memorial Day.

    Let me stop you right there. No educator would ever agree to this. So you would proscribe it from the government? Force educators to teach something they disagreed with? This doesn’t sound at all like free speech, but let me read on.

    but not in schools s proven falsities should not be taught to children.

    The main problem is that you’ve proven nothing. If you had proven something, then that would be the thing that is taught. That’s what proving something means.

    You might as well say that crop circles are proof of alien life. (In fact, at least one of the researchers that Ron Unz has relied on DOES say this.) In any case, good luck with this plan that will never happen.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Art
  1101. Art says:
    @crimson2

    Honestly, Art, I can’t tell if you’re too stupid to understand

    Honestly, crimson, I can’t tell if you’re too stupid to understand just how repulsive and nauseating you come across on this blog.

    Your attacks on free speech, show the inferiority of the Talmudic Jew culture. We get your disgusting belligerence and hate.

    One would think that after WWII, you Jews would choose a peaceful path – but no – clearly you Jews are not a good people – you chose war and harm. Shame Shame!

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1102. ANDYHANDY says:

    Even now, the only good jew is a ???? one!!!

  1103. Phil says:
    @j2

    Has this information been published? Where?

    • Replies: @j2
  1104. crimson2 says:
    @Erebus

    On the contrary, every single one of the contemporaneous pages I looked at before posting did (and still does).

    Let’s factcheck you right now.

    I Googled the fabricated quotation:

    “We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings”

    59 results.

    Result 1: http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/HomePage28April2009/99%25_auschwitz_testimony_10.htm

    Okay, so when I make a mistake, I admit it. I missed the url for the Star article. It is not a link, and it is not currently active. However, this url does clear up something. I attempted to find an earlier version of the Star page on the Wayback machine, but only found one from 2013. Apparently the Star changed the way they indexed their stories sometime around then. However, this url you found (thanks!) does get us back to December 30, 2009–three days after the article’s original publication.

    And was the fabricated quote present then? Nope:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20091230065112/http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/742965–a-case-for-letting-nature-take-back-auschwitz

    Still, that leaves three days for the global Jewish secret cabal to delete this quote, right? Except that the source that reprints the “quote” is dated January 10th, 2010.

    Once again, you lose. Once again, you’ve proven yourself a fool.

    Now, why would anyone want to debate people who can’t even admit when they have been caught faking a quotation? You guys are losers, always will be. Sucks for you.

    Here endeth the lesson.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1105. @phil

    Yes. Not only did Sturdy-Colls’ LIDAR detect nothing of significance, the only human remains she uncovered were at Treblinka *1*, which no one has ever claimed was anything but an ordinary labor camp. (She was passing the time there while awaiting the New York-born head Rabbi of Poland to arrive and oversee the operation at Treblinka 2, which he duly halted early into the effort.)

  1106. @phil

    And who can forget her hilarious misidentification of the Star of David tile?

  1107. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @JSM

    Oh, you sweet summer child.

  1108. crimson2 says:
    @Art

    Honestly, crimson, I can’t tell if you’re too stupid to understand just how repulsive and nauseating you come across on this blog.

    I don’t give a shit about how I come across to the Nazis who infest this colostomy bag of a website. Nauseating you is good, actually.

    Your attacks on free speech, show the inferiority of the Talmudic Jew culture. We get your disgusting belligerence and hate.

    I hate people who whitewash genocidal murderers. You caught me.

    One would think that after WWII, you Jews would choose a peaceful path – but no – clearly you Jews are not a good people – you chose war and harm. Shame Shame!

    As always, you Nazi clowns have no idea what’s going on. I’m not Jewish. If you think only Jews hate Nazi scum like you, then you’re in for a big surprise.

  1109. crimson2 says:
    @JSM

    and my White grandchildren to have futures

    I truly hope to see your white grandchildren in a healthy, committed and happy interracial relationship. Love is beautiful.

  1110. j2 says:
    @crimson2

    “Let me stop you right there. No educator would ever agree to this. So you would proscribe it from the government? Force educators to teach something they disagreed with? This doesn’t sound at all like free speech, but let me read on.
    but not in schools s proven falsities should not be taught to children.
    The main problem is that you’ve proven nothing. If you had proven something, then that would be the thing that is taught. That’s what proving something means.”

    Typical. You forgot what you just wrote. You wrote, let us assume all what Ron Unz writes is true and that Jews have invented the Holocaust as it is today known, and you ask: assuming this is true, seriously, what would you do?

    If we assume it is true, then it must be proven and the proof must be accepted, as that is what you mean by something being true. If we assume this, all educators also believe it to be true and they would certainly agree to teach it as they would consider it important. Then it could be and should be taught in schools. You are a hothead, but try to be logical. So, you got your answer.

  1111. EugeneGur says:
    @phil

    The Soviets had a 3/1 tank advantage and had their forces in offensive formations. They had many tanks that could travel up to 60 miles per hour on paved roads, which the Germans had but the Soviets didn’t.

    This is pure undiluted nonsense. What tanks would that be, pray? Not to mention that tanks aren’t cars; their prime function is not to travel on paved roads.

    The Germans were not ready for war

    That the Germans proved not ready for a kind of war they had to face – that is perfectly true. But that is not because of that “preventive” attack nonsense.

    By attacking first the Germans were able quickly to encircle the forward-leaning Soviets and rout them.

    And where exactly were the Soviets “leaning forward”? Near Kiev? Moscow?

    Please, do inform yourself – even a little would help – before posting garbage.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @phil
    , @Wally
    , @L.K
  1112. Otterboy says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thank you Wizard of Oz

    I was indeed born Jewish. My parents were iraqi “Baghdadi” Jews. Those Jews lived in Iraq for nearly 2000 years and was one of the biggest Jewish communities globally, before the creation of the state of Israel

    They were forced to flee in a very similar way that the Palestinians were forced to flee at the start of their horrendous nakba which continues until this day. My parents were forced to flee because (and this is all proven and documented) the Zionists planted and detonated bombs in prominent Jewish centres and cafés, pretending it was carried out by the local Arab population

    After the creation of Israel, Ben Gurion was desperate to get the iraqi Jews to emigrate to the new state because he needed these darker skin non ashkenazi Jews to work the land and do all the manual work. The ashkenazi Jews were to be the elite ruling class of the country. However, after opening an office in Baghdad, hardly any of the iraqi Jews signed up to leave. They loved Iraq, they were doing well there and there were no problems between them and the other iraqi locals. Ben Gurion became impatient and ordered his operatives to ‘make them leave’ and after the bombs the majority finally left in 1951. Luckily for me my parents left for India instead of Israel and then shortly after came to the UK.

    The Israeli government has blocked all the court cases by the iraqi Jews and their descendants to claim for all the property and assets they left behind when they were tricked into going to Israel. The reason is that the Israeli government wants to continue to use the story that the iraqi Jews were expelled forcibly and would have been massacred had they remained. This is in order to counterbalance the claims of the dispossessed Palestinians so they can say “what about our compensation for all the Jews that were expelled from the Arab countries?”

    However not all the Jews left and some including members of my family remained all the way through until 2003. Up until then nothing ever happened to them which further proves the terrible hoax that was perpetrated upon that whole group. But they had to get out in early 2003 after the illegal USA/uk led invasion and destruction of that country

    Sorry for the long digression which is completely off topic too.

    Best wishes

  1113. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I believe he was born Jewish because he writes so much better and comes across as so much more intelligent than the Wallys, Arts and other anti Semitic infestors of these threads

    Gee Wiz,

    Thanks for putting me in the same league as Wally — it is a honor.

    I see you have 768,576,309 comments now — 768,576,308 of them pro Jew tribalism.

    Hmm – are you still NOT-a-Jew?

    Is crimson also NOT-a-Jew? You two have a natural affinity.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. It seems that the NOT-a-Jew ranks are growing.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @j2
    , @Anon
  1114. peterAUS says:
    @JackOH

    We Americans helped defeat those naughty Germans. So, we aren’t like them at all. We aren’t like them, even when we behave a bit like them.

    Pretty much.
    It’s even part of methodology: the target is painted as variation of Nazi regime and leader as offshoot of Hitler.
    It’s cheap but clever enough and, apparently, very efficient.

    ..we have serious 21st century challenges to deal with..

    Yup.
    As for

    … to meet those challenges we have to somehow move on from our fixedness on the horrific excesses and miscalculations of the European 1914-1945 period.

    my comment here, No. 822. I believe we’ll fail, say, 90 %. As with humans, there is always that hope. 10 %. Only.

  1115. kikl says:

    What an exciting development. This article – had it been posted 10 to 20 years ago – would have been hammered in the comment section. The usual diatribes, holocaust denier, conspiracy theorist and antisemite would have been spouted incessantly.

    This time around the holocaust doubters and unbelievers are clearly in charge. Few holocaust believers have posted here. No serious attempt to prove any of the main dogmas of the holocaust has been posted. The 6 million, the plan to kill all the jews and the homicidal gas chambers are beyond proof, so it appears.

    The times they are a changing rapidly. The holocaust industry is incredibly strong having thousands of Hollywood movies, TV series, Museums, TV channels, Schools, college faculties, censorship laws, … money and propaganda galore.

    But it is a huge house of cards. A towering edifice without a sound foundation. A ragtag group of poor but smart revisionists are shaking the giant building. It is a matter of time and then it will collapse. I recommend to the inhabitants to leave the edifice now quietly.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1116. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    Obviously if they were to be transited somewhere, they also had to arrive somewhere and stay somewhere. Let’s see you document these propositions. Also let’s see at least one documented name of such a person. You get 1000$ for a name, as per the above challenge.

    How many people, and their names/identities can you name, that perished in Operation Reinhardt camps?

    Even Yad Vashem is still missing between 1.3 to 2.5 million names/identities of Holocaust victims, which (1.3 million), incidentally, is about about the figure mentioned by Korherr of Jews “processed” in Operation Reinhardt camps.

    The Holocaust: Who are the missing million?

    Since 1954, Israel’s Holocaust memorial, Yad Vashem (“A Memorial and a Name”), has been working to recover the names of all the victims, and to date has managed to identify some 4.7 million.
    […]
    While Yad Vashem has made great strides in identifying victims from Western and Central Europe – about 95% have now been named – far fewer names have been uncovered in Nazi-occupied areas of Eastern Europe, where about 4.5m Jews were murdered.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39062221

    How many Jews that were persecuted, but not exterminated, by Germans/Nazis changed their names/identities, i.e. anglicized, hebraized or sovietized, etc. them?

    70 Years Later, We’re Still Trying To Learn Who Died In The Holocaust

    Avram estimates that there are 4.3 million different people in the database — and only about 3.5 million people with information about their place of residence. The biggest gaps are in Poland, the former Soviet Union and Romania: Roughly half of victims’ names from those countries are known, compared to 97 percent or more of victims from many Western European countries.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/70-years-later-were-still-trying-to-learn-who-died-in-the-holocaust/ Archived link: http://archive.is/PGxXP

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
    , @Anon
  1117. j2 says:
    @Phil

    I do not try to publish calculations on Holocaust as they surely would not be published by any main stream publisher, but I have put my calculations in my blog, the Operation Reinhard figures are in this post:

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/continueing-from-the-previous-post/

    You can check all information by finding the numbers from the web. Use the best sources you find, do not ask me to give the sources as I did this to myself long ago and those web-pages may not exist any more. Just find how many were in the DP camps and you have this my text to follow and see if I made any errors, which I hope I did not, at least tried not. There are only very few figures to check.

    Here is the pertinent part of the linked text:
    *******
    After the war ended 1945 there were millions of people in DP-camps from different countries. Most of these people returned home before 1948. In 1946 250,000 Jews stayed in DP-camps, 50,000 of them were concentration camp survivors. Since there were 410,000 Jewish concentration camp survivors, but only 50,000 remained in DP-camps, the rest must have returned home or moved somewhere in 1945-46. Jews, who returned home or moved somewhere in Europe, are already in the Jewish populations of different European countries in 1948.

    Legal immigration to Palestine during 1939-48 was 75,000. This was defined by UK White paper of 1939. All but 3000 immigration visas were granted during 1939-44 and the rest surely before 1948. Thus, the whole 75.000 immigrated legally from Europe. During 1946-48 there was another legal immigration program, 138.000 Jews immigrated from DP-camps to Palestine. All were European Jews. Illegal Alyah Bet immigration to Palestine during 1939-48 was about 110.000 Jews. This gives the total Jewish immigration from Europe to Palestine during 1939-1948 as 0.323 million.

    Now comes the interesting part. There were 250,000 Jews in the DP-camps in 1946 and 138,000 immigrated legally to Palestine. There should have stayed 112,000 Jews, but there came more Jews to DP-camps from Eastern Europe after 1946. Notice that it is here where the calculation method separates legal and illegal immigration during 1939-48 from DP-camps: if some of this immigration were people from the DP-camps, they should be subtracted from 250,000. As we do not do so, but subtract only the 138.000 from another immigration program, legal and illegal immigration in 1939-48 can be treated as a separate program.

    How many more? Newly independent Israel opened doors in 1948 and took from Europe 0.338 million Jews during 1948-53. They came from DP-camps. Of these 0.338 million, 0.025 million were from Western Europe and the rest from Eastern Europe. Additionally the USA took first 80,000 Jews from DP camps and later 57,000. Thus, 137,000 Jews from DP-camps immigrated to the USA after 1948. Canada and South-Africa took additionally 20,000 Jews from DP-camps after 1948. So, there was supposed to be 112,000 Jews in DP-camps but after 1948 from DP-camps immigrated 338,000+137,000+20,000=495,000 Jews. That means that 383,000 Jews came to DP-camps from Eastern Europe after 1946. It is partially known where they came from. The largest groups that immigrated 1948-53 from Europe to Israel were from Poland (104,000) and from Romania (123,000). The origin of 30,000 is not known. Very few came from the Soviet Union. These Romanian and Polish Jews make 123,000+104,000 =315,000. It largely explains where from 383,000 came to DP-camps. Polish Jews must be from West Poland, since Eastern Polish Jews birth place was in the Soviet Union after the war and they most probably were not allowed to move to the West. The same argument applies to the whole 383,000 Jews: they were allowed to move to the West, thus they were not born in areas that after the war belonged to the Soviet Union. 123,000 of them were from Romania, thus 383,000-123,000=260,000 were survivors from West Poland or Western and Central Europe.
    ********
    OK, and where were these 260,000 Jews of West Poland and Central Europe during the war?
    In Western Poland there were only 80,000 who were not captured by Nazis, so they were not in Western Poland and there were the earlier immigrations (75,000, 110,000, 138,000) that took most of the Western Poland’s Jews to Palestine.

    The 260,000 had to be those who were taken to the Soviet Union through Operation Reinhard camps since Jews who were not transported by Nazis or who returned home before 1946 did not come to the DP camps after 1946. There were Jews, who returned from the east, that is Soviet Union, but were not Soviet Jews, as very few were from Soviet Union of 1946 (meaning born there).

    I gave the figure 268,000 earlier, here it is 260,000. You cannot be very precise in these numbers, it depends on the exact numbers you use, but they are always about the same. So, adding and subtracting assume only that you should get about the same, not exactly. You should be able to find all these numbers from a reliable source, or from your preferred web source, and check these.

    • Replies: @phil
  1118. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    “The facts say — Germans seek peace – Jews war.”
    — This is Correct.
    Bibi and his followers (including the progeny of the bloody Jewish Bolsheviks) are the patented warmongers unable to solve any problems with their Arab cousins on their own and instead parasitizing on and extracting resources from the western countries under the disguise of the “most victimized” and the “most moral.” All while attacking the freedom of speech and the freedom of information.

  1119. peterAUS says:
    @Erebus

    You are trying to discuss a serious matter with somebody who writes, among other things:

    …Once again, you lose….You guys are losers….Sucks for you.

    In just one of posts, before:

    …runny sore… celibate, grey-dicked miserable sacks of shit…. syphilitic taint…. lonely and impotent buddies are fondling your Reich memorabilia….. laughingstock losers…

    I am sure you could, with ease, visualize him.
    Are you sure that this exercise is a good use of your time?
    And…hahaha…that comes from the guy who disagrees with you most of the time. Funny a?
    Still, would be pity that “crimson” and “wally” types achieve what’s common on the Internet. Take over.

    On a more serious matter, what do you think about that “Occult roots of Nazi ideology” thing? I’ve seen a long show, I think by BBC, about it, read some material and found the idea interesting.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1120. jim Rizoli says: • Website

    You don’t make laws to make it illegal to discuss the topic or ban books that go against the official Jewish Version of it. I had 5 youtube channels that have been deleted so far because my vidoes dared to discuss the topic.

    They now restrict the videos on my remaining youtube channels. Vimeo deleted my channel with over 250 videos….I was kicked off my local cable channel because of the topic.
    I guess this is the cowards way you deal with the topic you delete all the people that disagree with the official Jewish view.

    Seems a little harsh to me considering that the truth should stand on its on merits.
    The only people that stop these videos from showing are those that got something to hide.
    Time to free your mind and learn the TRUTH…
    Holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com

    Jim Rizoli
    Holocaust Revisionist and proud of it.
    CCFIILE.COM

    • Replies: @Hans
    , @Wally
  1121. Art says:
    @crimson2

    You might as well say that crop circles are proof of alien life

    Hey Jew —- “them ain’t crop circles.”

    Netanyahu’s words — nuke threats!

    Who is the enemy of the Jews – like everyone!

    Israel threatens to use nuclear weapons to ‘wipe out’ its enemies

    Standing next to a secretive Israeli atomic reactor earlier in the week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu threatened to “wipe out” his enemies. In a speech that many will see as the Jewish state breaking its long silence over the possession of nuclear weapons, the Likud leader warned that it has the means to destroy its enemies.

    “Those who threaten to wipe us out put themselves in a similar danger, and in any event will not achieve their goal,” he said on Wednesday during a ceremony to rename the complex, near the desert town of Dimona. The site has long been suspected to be the location where Israel has been developing nuclear weapons.

    https://alethonews.com/2018/08/31/israel-threatens-to-use-nuclear-weapons-to-wipe-out-its-enemies/

    Think peace — Do No harm — Art

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1122. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    Sanning’s claim is another example of his poor quality of research because it overlooks the fact that the Polish-Soviet repatriation agreement, signed on 6 July 1945, allowed any person who had been a Polish citizen on 17 September 1939 to return. Repatriates therefore could include not only western Polish refugees but anyone in eastern Poland who took Soviet citizenship in 1939-41.

    Repatriates thus included Jews who were not deportees. Anyone who crossed the Polish-Soviet demarcation line in 1939-1941 but was not deported could be a repatriate; and anyone who fled eastwards when the Nazis crossed the demarcation line in June 1941 could be a repatriate, provided they had been Polish citizens on 17 September 1939.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/10/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-6.html

    Why do you believe Polish Jews would, voluntarily, want to return to Poland when they were not just being discriminated against,persecuted, abused and murdered by Germans/Nazis, but also by Poles?

    Now back to my question about the 320000 Hungarian Jews deported (among the 430000) in 1944 to Auschwitz, but neither found fit for labor, nor registered in the camp. Where did they go?

    I wish we could have asked Raoul Wallenberg about them, he probably had some unique insight on their situation and fate…

    The Lubyanka Keeps Its Secrets: Russia and the Wallenberg Case

    By refusing to open the archives of the interrogation of Raoul Wallenberg, the Russian intelligence service is proving that it aspires to be the heir of Stalin’s NKVD.

    https://carnegie.ru/commentary/73473

    These are the latest numbers from Yad Vashem:

    Yad Vashem Uncovers Over 200,000 New Names of Hungarian Holocaust Victims

    http://www.yadvashem.org/press-release/25-october-2017-03-00.html

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  1123. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Anyone can just make lists and make claims about anything.
    It’ all bluff and lies.

    The fact of the matter is that you have produced no proof to back up your Zionist conjured fake lists & bizarre unsubstantiated claims.

    powerful quotes:

    We’re talking about an alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist to this day and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    Per their alleged ‘Holocaust by bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    And as proven, the Korherr Report says nothing of killing jews, whatsover.

    You’re desperately grasping at straws.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1124. phil says:
    @EugeneGur

    You apparently have not read the earlier American Pravda article by Ron Unz on Icebreaker and the later edition of this work called The Chief Culprit (Stalin). The “American Pravda” angle is that the Jewish Press in the US does not discuss such matters, whereas they have been widely discussed in other countries. Icebreaker is one of the best-selling history books ever.

    If the Soviets invaded Germany they would be able to get the tanks on paved roads. That’s why they were built; the Soviets did not have a network of paved roads, and the newer tanks would not have been used according to their capabilities if they remained in the USSR.

    The Soviets were leaning forward precisely where their forces would launch an invasion against the Germans. Aerial surveillance showed this clearly. See the interview with a contemporary German general, conducted in 1990, in the Journal of Historical Review, vol. 10, no. 1 (1990).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @EugeneGur
  1125. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    I remind this site that peterAUS has been challenged repeatedly to produce proof for his alleged ‘millions of murdered Jews’.
    He simply cannot do it. Which is reasonable since there is no proof to produce.

    He is quite angered and frustrated at being made a fool of, but hey, cognitive dissonance can be like that. Take a deep breath, Peter.

    I do note his curious fixation / obsession for yours truly. Creepy.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1126. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    There is a difference between a missing person and a person who is known to have died. For instance, if a person is registered in one country but before the war moves illegally to another country and there uses a different name, then he is a missing person. In the same way if a person changes the name during or after the war without informing of it, he becomes a missing person. The death toll should be calculated separately for confirmed deaths and missing person number separately for those missing and I wonder if the 60% known names refers to verified deaths or missing persons.

    You are right that Eastern Polish Jews did not return to Poland. Communists even made a progrom in 1946 to make it sure.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
  1127. Art says:
    @Art

    Is crimson also NOT-a-Jew? You two have a natural affinity.

    #1137 crimson: I’m not Jewish. If you think only Jews hate Nazi scum like you, then you’re in for a big surprise.

    Gee Wiz — to funny – crimson claims he is NOT-a-Jew!

    You two need to explain why you support 70 years of war and hate by the Jews after WWII.

    You would think that after WWII they would take the opposite tact – but NO – not the Talmudic Jews.

    Please explain your affinity to Talmudism – it hates everyone – their hate for all is there for everyone to see.

    Think Peace — Art

  1128. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gas-chambers-never-existed-say-afd-group-at-concentration-camp-f0kt5rjfk

    AfD is Alternative für Deutschland, seen as right wing populist.
    They are against the EU and against migrants, statements have been made as ‘German soldiers fought professionally in WWII’.
    Polls seem to show that with elections now AfD would be the second party.
    Since just a short time they have more than 5% of the votes, thus seats in the German parliament.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1129. Mike P says:
    @EugeneGur

    I don’t regard Russians as a separate race. In fact, nobody I know does that. Your cry of “racism” is just more silliness.

    It is simply an empirical observation that many Russians won’t even try to look at history objectively; you are exhibit A, but right here on Unz I could name several others. Their reluctance mirrors that commonly seen in US Americans – a hypertrophic, brittle, jealously guarded national pride gets in the way, and before you know it, you have stepped in it and they are frothing at the mouth. Maybe we can call this condition “hypersensitive patriotism”.

    • Replies: @L.K
  1130. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    More on the Yad Vashem ‘database’ which allows access to “Approved Researchers Only”. Oops!!

    Yad Vashem “Database” a proven fraud: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9366

    Jews alleged to have been ‘holocausted’ were in USSR / Yad Vashem database a fraud: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10851
    said:
    “Why do you believe Polish Jews would, voluntarily, want to return to Poland when they were not just being discriminated against,persecuted, abused and murdered by Germans/Nazis, but also by Poles?”

    Cheap Zionist lies. There is no proof they were murdered, none, And you cannot / have not presented it.

    Your use of the paid Zionists of ‘holocaust controversies’ is laughable. ‘Revealing’ is more like it.
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers
    By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en
    and:
    see the Zionists at ‘holocaust controversies’ slapped silly:
    Dissecting the Holocaust., by Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/990/?lang=en
    and:
    See two guys from HC sent packing here:
    Challenge to Roberto Muehlenkamp, Andrew Mathis & Believers on alleged Auschwitz / Birkenau ‘gassings’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11231

    http://www.codoh.com

  1131. j2 says:
    @Art

    Art, I mean seriously, do you think you can write as well and intelligently as presumed Jews, like late MOMUS and manorchurch? Those geniuses really kept the level of Unz up.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  1132. L.K says:
    @crimson2

    Hey Zionist imbecile,

    I’ve manufactured NOTHING… The Star merely edited the bloody interview a bit, from what it was back in 09, though it is still clear to any non Troll what Auschwitz high Priest van Pelt meant…

    There is NO material evidence to prove the Auschwitz atrocity propaganda.

    There is also NO documentary evidence to support the official Auschwitz story.

    All is really based on a relatively small number of LIE-witness testimony.

    This is true for the whole ‘extermination in gas chambers’ atrocity propaganda.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1133. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    I knew you couldn’t help yourself you paranoid zio-nazi who will support any crime commited by the cult as long as it’s good for the cult

    The cult is doomed and crimson2 is hardly doing “what’s good for the cult”. He’s only accelerating its demise. Any reasonable goy will get even more incensed when reading his comments. He could even be “/Our Guy/” for that matter (reversing the common “play the hateful ‘Nazi’” Hasbara tactics).

    But I doubt it. As you’ve said, he couldn’t help himself. His tiny tribe was always angry but now they’re finally pissing off the rest of us. There are approximately 8 billion goyim on the Planet. Place your bets, gentlemen.

  1134. L.K says:
    @Erebus

    Hey Erebus,

    Yes, the interview(the Star) has clearly been edited a bit, some sentences removed.
    Still, only a desperate troll like this crimson type can pretend the meaning of what remains is unclear.

    Anyway, I like how Carlo Mattogno treats this issue in his book “The Real Case for Auschwitz: Robert van Pelt’s Evidence from the Irving Trial Critically Reviewed”, 2nd edition, 2015:
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=22

    If you think that’s insane, then brace yourself for what is yet to come, because Prof. Dr. Robert Jan van Pelt has suggested during an interview with the Toronto newspaper The Star, published on Dec. 27, 2009,[13] that the extant material traces of the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp, the site “where the murders happened,” should be left to be “reclaimed by nature.” Or in other words: he wants them to disappear. He stated that the material traces of the alleged crimes shouldn’t be preserved, because:
    “To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence.”

    As if the demand for material evidence for the alleged biggest slaughter in the history of mankind were unreasonable. Don’t we ask for material evidence for every single case of murder or manslaughter? Then why not here? And if the deliberate destruction (or should we say premeditated abandonment?) of evidence of an alleged crime is a crime in itself, then why not here?

    But read this statement again, and then ask yourself: Do the revisionists demand more material evidence? More than what? In this same interview van Pelt himself had to admit the following:
    “Ninety-nine percent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove… it has become part of our inherited knowledge.”

    Yet after having read the present book, it will be clear that the remaining one percent, which according to van Pelt is based on material evidence (including wartime documents), does not prove what van Pelt asserts. So it is more accurate to say: 100% of what is claimed about industrialized mass murder in gas chambers at Auschwitz is based on… “inherited knowledge,” or in plain English: nothing but hot air – which is, however, contradicted and thus refuted by all extant material and documentary evidence. Hence there is no physical or documentary evidence at all for van Pelt’s claims! There is therefore nothing exceptional about asking for any kind of material evidence for an alleged crime, if nothing has been presented so far. Not demanding material evidence would put the holocaust into a “separate category” from all other historical or criminological claims. So the shoe is on the other foot.

    However, revisionists are indeed perfectly happy with the existing material and documentary evidence, which points in but one direction, a different one than van Pelt wants it to. The revisionists don’t need more evidence, and they don’t ask for more. The case is clear for all open-minded persons to see. It is the exterminationists who need more, in fact any material and documentary evidence to support their case. It is they who ought to ask for more evidence.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1135. L.K says:

    Anybody who does not feel like reading several books but wants to get a good feel for just how totally idiotic/absurd the official holohoax narrative is, re the AR camps, i.e, the alleged pure extermination camps, should at least watch the following excellent underground documentary.
    The documentary is fully based on official holocaust literature, including big wigs like Hilberg and Arad. The pgs from the books are actually not only given but shown.

    Burial pits and body disposal starts at around 1:31:00

    Around 3:02:00 discussion of the cremations at A.R camps as alleged in standard holocaust literature.

    ONE THIRD of the HOLOCAUST – Widescreen (full)

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1136. utu says:

    Anybody’s view on the Holocaust has been changed by this article and the comments that followed?

    How many Jews were killed during the WWII?

    How many Jews were killed in shooting?

    How many Jews were killed by gassing?

    How many Jews died while incarcerated in German custody?

    How many Jews died because of starvation and epidemics?

    How many Jews were killed as soldiers on battlefields?

  1137. Hans says:
    @jim Rizoli

    You’ve done yeoman work on the subject, Jim. Many thanks!

    Historian John Keegan has said, “David Irving knows more than anyone alive about the German side of the Second World War. He discovers archives unknown to official historians and turns their contents into densely footnoted narratives that consistently provoke controversy…. His greatest achievement is Hitler’s War, which has been described as the ‘autobiography the Führer did not
    write’ and is indispensable to anyone seeking to understand the war in the round.” (The Daily Telegraph)

    And so, Jewish interests labor to have this essential work removed from university bookshelves:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/apr/27/rowan-williams-david-irving-holocaust-denial-manchester

    https://www.darkmoon.me/2017/angry-jewess-forces-cambridge-university-to-remove-david-irving-book-from-library-shelves/

  1138. Wally says:
    @jim Rizoli

    Those attacks on free speech are absolutely further proof that the ‘holocaust’ narrative is an outrageous hateful fraud & scam.
    A blaring indicator of it’s inability to withstand scrutiny.

    Jews and their Left use it for every argument.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1139. @jilles dykstra

    Amusingly, these protestors agree with the official account: there were no gassings on German territory. Unless, in these Orwellian, it’s not enough to agree with the Party line, one must agree in the right way?

  1140. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @kikl

    Couldn’t agree more. The process of awakening is unstoppable at this point.

    That’s why (((they’ll))) try to push the world into WW3 (or similar, “reset”, calamity). It will backfire.

  1141. Wally says:
    @j2

    said:
    “You are right that Eastern Polish Jews did not return to Poland.”

    Jews evacuated to USSR during war: https://archive.is/jA9iI
    and:
    more Jews evacuated to USSR during war: https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees
    exc.:
    “Since the outbreak of the war hundreds of thousands of Jews from Poland, Rumania and the Baltic countries have been given shelter in the U.S.S.R., and many of them were permitted to pass through Russia en route to the United States and to Palestine.”

    After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering impossible & contradictory “survivors testimonies” had to go to nearly sixty different countries to record the said testimonies on video

    http://www.codoh.com

  1142. Anonymous [AKA "Geezilland"] says:

    The Jew State needs the holohoax because the poor dumb shits are institutionally busted as hostis humani generis. Since they ratified the ICCPR, thinking they could talk their way out of it, Israel has gone from breaching almost every article to interpreting the treaty in bad faith. They thought they could trick internationally elected independent experts of the treaty body, people who are way smarter than they are.

    https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/19980802

    https://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/treatybodyexternal/Download.aspx?symbolno=CCPR/C/ISR/CO/4&Lang=En

    Now that Israel has irrevocably committed to meticulously-sourced public documentation of its crimes, the world can put the squeeze on it. The CAT can conduct confidential investigations and publish their findings at its option, demonstrating Israeli crimes against humanity (legally, what Nazis do.) The ICJ can consider individual victims in its cases, and the ICC can investigate individual Zionazi criminals propria motu.

    There is nothin sadder than a dumb Jew, and Israel is the cesspool where dumb Jews drain off to. The last remaining smart ones are going to emigrate wherever they can, and Palestine will heal itself of the Zionazi infestation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1143. L.K says:
    @Mike P

    Great post Mike.

    But it will be to no avail.

    Some Russian historians have recognized the highly politicized nature of what is known in Russia as the ‘great patriotic war’.
    It became a national myth already by Soviet times and modern day Russia has incorporated it as its key national myth too.

    Cheers

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1144. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    Again, you’re simply out matched, Eugene.

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    lot’s of actual details
    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR
    https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    http://www.codoh.com

  1145. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    You are the one posting garbage here Eugene. Every single one of your posts. Garbage.

    German historian Wolfgang Strauß made available the research of several Russian historians after the fall of the Soviet Union in his ‘Unternehmen Barbarossa und der russische Historikerstreit.’
    Since then the archives have been closed again and Russia has passed legislation to punish those who defy the official ‘history’, including fines & prison terms.

    As Daniel W. Michaels states in a review of it:
    This book’s greatest contribution may well be to highlight for non-Russians the research of Russian revisionists. Strauss is very familiar with this important work, which has been all but entirely ignored in the United States. The most important publications cited by Strauss in this regard are two Russian anthologies, both issued in 1995: “Did Stalin Make Preparations for an Offensive War Against Hitler?,” and “September 1, 1939-May 9, 1945: 50th Anniversary of the Defeat of Fascist Germany.”

    Strauss lists (pages 102-105) the major findings and conclusions of Russian revisionist historians, derived mostly from the two major works cited above. Some of the major findings:

    – Stalin wanted a general European war of exhaustion in which the USSR would intervene at the politically and militarily most expedient moment. …

    – To ignite this, Stalin used the [August 1939] Soviet-German Non-Aggression Pact, which:
    a) provoked Hitler’s attack against Poland,
    and b) evoked the declarations of war [against Germany] by Britain and France.

    – In the event Germany was defeated quickly [by Britain and France], Stalin planned to “Sovietize” Germany and establish a “Communist government” there, but with the danger that the victorious capitalist powers would never permit a Communist Germany.

    – In the event France was defeated quickly [by Germany], Stalin planned the “Sovietization” of France. “A Communist revolution would seem inevitable, and we could take advantage of this for our own purposes by rushing to aid France and making her our ally. As a result of this, all the nations under the ‘protection’ of a victorious Germany would become our allies.”

    -From the outset Stalin reckoned on a war with Germany, and the [Soviet] conquest of Germany. To this end, Stalin concentrated on the western border of the USSR operational offensive forces, which were five- to six-times stronger than the Wehrmacht with respect to tanks, aircraft and artillery. …

    -Troop contingents were to be brought up to full strength in all the western military districts; airfields and supply bases to support a forward-strategy were to be built directly behind the border; an attack force of 60 divisions was to be set up in the Ukraine and mountain divisions and a parachute corps were to be established for attack operations.

    -The 16th, 19th, 21st, 22nd and 25th Soviet Armies were transferred from the interior to the western border, and deployed at take-off points for the planned offensive. …

    -Stalin intended to attack in July 1941, although Russian historians disagree about the precise date. Suvorov cites July 6, [Valeri] Danilov [a retired Soviet Colonel] gives July 2, while Meltiukhov writes: “The Red Army could not have carried out an attack before July 15.”

    After the list of findings is presented, Russian historian I. W. Pawlowa is quoted; she states that from an objective POV, the German attack cannot be denied its preventive character.

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  1146. @APilgrim

    QUOTE Human bodies are useful fuel. END QUOTE

    Please note, Jews are flammable. In fact, the French used to light Jews on fire and then hurl them from Trebuchets when they laid seige to castles.

    How can anyone believe such completely preposterous nonsense? Don’t you know that the human body is mostly water????

    Holocaustians will believe anything, no matter how nutty, it seems.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1147. Anon[323] • Disclaimer says:

    Congocaust

  1148. @L.K

    Agreed, this is an excellent documentary.

  1149. @L.K

    It is disappointing how Russians – as opposed to the many other nationalities who fought in the Red Army – have allowed themselves to be so thoroughly manipulated on this subject. Really no better than Americans, in that regard.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1150. phil says:
    @j2

    Pretty amazing stuff. I do hope more people can become informed about these matters. Thank you.

  1151. Cyrano says:
    @phil

    I think that one of the most overlooked aspects as to why the Germans under-performed on the Eastern front is because their heart wasn’t in it.

    What do I mean by this? Well it’s simple. The Germans sensed that they are fighting their future in-laws.

    They had to be aware that they are militarily inferior to the USSR, thus expecting that the Red Army will one day make it into Germany. As a result of this, some of the closest female relatives of the German soldiers who invaded USSR, will have a one night stand with a member of the Red army and this short (but fruitful) romance will produce an offspring that will make the Russians that they were fighting – a family members.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1152. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    There is nothin sadder than a dumb Jew, and Israel is the cesspool where dumb Jews drain off to.

    Haha. Flawless.

  1153. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    Holocaust survivor, 102, meets nephew after thinking all family died in war

    Eliahu Pietruszka escaped from Poland at the beginning of the second world war thinking his entire family had perished. But two weeks ago he discovered that a younger brother had also survived and that his brother’s son, 66-year-old Alexandre, was flying from Russia to see him. The reunion was made possible by a comprehensive online database of victims created by Yad Vashem, Israel’s official memorial to the victims of the Holocaust.

    Typo in my above comment, one *about* too many: … is about *[]* the figure mentioned by Korherr

    The death toll should be calculated separately for confirmed deaths and missing person number separately for those missing and I wonder if the 60% known names refers to verified deaths or missing persons.

    Very good point.

    These are questions answered from the Yad Vashem website FAQ page http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/resources/names/faq.asp on their data categorization/classification criteria/standards:

    Does every name in the Names Database relate to a victim murdered beyond any doubt?

    No. The Database is based on thousands of different sources. Yad Vashem experts have analyzed each source and have distinguished between sources that attest to murder, sources that point to a very high probability of murder (presumably murdered) and sources that lack a direct reference to murder.

    It is probable that part of the individuals whose names appear only in sources of the third category, that is, lacking a direct reference to murder, were murdered at a later stage, but this cannot be determined on the basis of the documentation available as of now.

    http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/resources/names/faq.asp

    Why is it that on the personal records based on lists of Jews in some of the ghettos (Lodz for example), it is stated “presumably murdered”? I know that the person was murdered!

    Yad Vashem experts have analyzed each source in the Database and have distinguished between sources that attest to murder, sources that point to a very high probability of murder and sources that lack a direct reference to murder.

    For example: The list prepared by the Organization of Former Residents of Lodz in Israel contains some 240,000 personal records. It is known that the vast majority of the Jews imprisoned in the Lodz ghetto were ultimately murdered, but the editors of the list did not make a distinction between those who were murdered and those who survived. Due to the limitations of the list itself, there is no way of knowing with any measure of exactitude which of the individuals on the list was not murdered, and therefore we stated next to each name on the list “presumably murdered.” The names of those for whom we have documentation attesting that they did indeed survive do not appear at this stage on the Database.

    If you find the name of a ghetto prisoner and you know that she or he survived, please fill out a Shoah Survivor Registration form. In this way you can help us distinguish between the names of the murdered and the survivors on the list. In the future, we intend to give online access to the names of the survivors as well.

    Is it possible that different personal records relating to the same individual state his or her fate in different ways?

    It is possible. The Database presents, side by side, personal records each based on independent sources of information. Some of these sources may clearly attest that the person was murdered, while others document his or her fate at different stages during the Shoah, and therefore lack a direct reference to the murder. That is why the statement in the column “Fate based on this source” may be different in each of the personal records, according to the specific source.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1154. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    > Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government

    They obviously didn’t, only 1 Jew in the 1st Soviet government.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
    , @annamaria
  1155. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    > Logistically it was impossible to transport 400.000 jews in july and august 1944 from Hungary.

    Given that they were so transported, according to the copious amounts of documents, it was possible.

    • Replies: @cassandra
    , @annamaria
  1156. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @UncommonGround

    > I don’t know, but Lazslo (Laszlo?) Bernath who was in Ausschwitz said in The Guardian that he had never heard of gas chambers while there

    Why would he have? In fact, the level of knowledge of the Hungarian Jews about extermination was low: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/08/knowledge-of-mass-extermination-among.html

    > Do you know about the case of some people who were in concentration camps and never heard about gas chambers and how this was possible?

    See the link above. The camp was big, the language barrier was real, no reason everybody would have known.

  1157. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    It was too easy to predict the deniers would quote Wiesel (their only source) and they would not quote the key parts.

    “The camp had become a hive of activity. People were running, calling to one another. In every block, the inmates prepared for the journey ahead. I had forgotten about my lame foot. A doctor came into the room and announced:
    “Tomorrow, right after nightfall, the camp will start on its march. Block by block. The sick can remain in the infirmary. They will not be evacuated.”
    *That news made us wonder. Were the SS really going to leave hundreds of prisoners behind in the infirmaries, pending the arrival of their liberators? Were they really going to allow Jews to hear the clock strike twelve? Of course not.”All the patients will be finished off on the spot,” said the faceless one. “And in one last swoop, thrown into the furnaces.””Surely, the camp will be mined,” said another. “Right after the evacuation, it will all blow up.”*As for me, I was thinking not about death but about not wanting to be separated from my father. We had already suffered so much, endured so much together. This was not the moment to separate.
    I ran outside to look for him. The snow was piled high, the blocks’ windows veiled in frost. Holding a shoe in my hand, for I could not put it on my right foot, I ran, feeling neither pain nor cold.
    “What are we going to do?”
    My father didn’t answer.
    “What are we going to do?”
    He was lost in thought. The choice was in our hands. For once. We could decide our fate for ourselves. *To stay, both of us, in the infirmary, where, thanks to my doctor, he could enter as either a patient or a medic.*
    I had made up my mind to accompany my father wherever he went.
    “Well, Father, what do we do?”
    He was silent.
    “Let’s be evacuated with the others,” I said.
    He didn’t answer. He was looking at my foot.
    “You think you’ll be able to walk?”
    “Yes, I think so.”
    “Let’s hope we won’t regret it, Eliezer.”
    After the war, I learned the fate of those who had remained at the infirmary. They were, quite simply, liberated by the Russians, two days after the evacuation.”

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#morewiesel

    So the only “choice” that he had was to pretend or not to pretend to be sick. It was not a choice offered by the Nazis, and it was not a choice for the thousands.

    Try again.

  1158. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    Too bad this canard has been debunked:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/03/the-rothstein-canard.html

    So how come the deniers cannot name a single Jew out of at least 1.3 million that were allegedly transited through those camps to the “Russian East”? Hmm. Makes you wonder.

    • Replies: @phil
  1159. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    > The idea that there are the remains of 900,000 people under the ground there is laughable.

    Who claimed there are remains of 900k people there? Source?

    • Replies: @phil
    , @Wally
    , @phil
  1160. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    > From Auschwitz to other camps

    What camps? Name the camps.

    > there were many small labor camps

    What would Jews unable to work do in labor camps?

    > Where is your proof that no Hungarian Jew was fit to labor?

    Since I’ve obviously stated no such thing, you’ve been caught lying.

    I expressly said that 320,000 Hungarian Jews were found unable to work.

    The rest of the Jews (those who were found able to work), about 110k of them, were indeed transferred to labor camps, which is well documented.

    What happened to the rest?

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  1161. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > I see no documents which “document gas chambers”.

    All of them document gas chambers.

    Any counterarguments?

    > I do see a debunked & laughable ‘gas vans’ fake document, see below. LOL

    You haven’t debunked anything though.

    Any counterarguments?

    > I do see carbon dioxide mentioned on a faked piece of paper which has been tellingly cropped, no letter head, no stamps, no signature, something anyone with a German typewriter could and did forge. Truly desperate.

    You haven’t shown any fakery.

    Any counterarguments?

    > The alleged ‘gas vans’ are truly laughable, no, idiotic.

    Saying so doesn’t make it so. Gas vans are documented.

    Any counterarguments?

    > Gas Vans / Wagons – fiction or fact?

    All debunked here: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2015/11/rebuttal-of-alvarez-on-gas-vans-why.html

    > And why would this be necessary if they were factual:

    A non sequitur.

    > Gas Van Film and Photo Fraud, German News Magazine and Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Museum Caught Faking Photo and Film Captions:

    No fakery, Cole hasn’t shown they tried to present this as authentic footage. Indeed, in the film the cameraman is in the gas van when the doors close. Nobody would try to present this as authentic footage.

    > ‘Chelmno again‘:

    All debunked above and at http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2017/05/sonderkommando-lange-in-german.html

    > The Gas Vans, A Critical Study

    All debunked at the first link.

    > Gas Vans – forgeries galore!

    None, all debunked at the first link.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  1162. Anonymous [AKA "RBS"] says:
    @Kelso

    Agree. Common sense. Way too convenient.

  1163. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > How many people, and their names/identities can you name, that perished in Operation Reinhardt camps?

    These ones, for starters.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/12/can-you-give-name-of-just-one-jew-with.html

    Now back to you. How many 1000$ will you be able to get with your undoubtedly long list of names?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1164. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > Why do you believe Polish Jews would, voluntarily, want to return to Poland when they were not just being discriminated against,persecuted, abused and murdered by Germans/Nazis, but also by Poles?

    All of this irrelevant to the point being made. In any case, the number of the deported refugees is documented.

    > I wish we could have asked Raoul Wallenberg about them, he probably had some unique insight on their situation and fate…

    No answer then. Your silence is more than sufficient. Thank you. You can’t explain the fate of about 320000 Hungarian Jews deported (among the 430000) in 1944 to Auschwitz, but neither found fit for labor, nor registered in the camp. Where did they go?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1165. annamaria says:
    @Crimson2

    It this you, Mrs. Nuland-Kagan?
    “Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine:” https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727
    “The extraordinary Nazi – Zionist cooperative effort in 1933:” http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/09/07/Nazi_Zionism.html
    “Former Israeli defense minister confirms Israeli cooperates with ISIS in Syria:” https://www.sott.net/article/349468-Former-Israeli-defense-minister-confirms-Israeli-cooperates-with-ISIS-in-Syria

  1166. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “I think this article and the resulting thread inadvertently demonstrates the value of permitting free discussion of anything.”
    — The article is about the defense of the freedom of information, which has been under attack from the pernicious Jewish Power.
    Some Germans had committed crimes against humanity last century. Some Jewish Bolsheviks had committed crimes against humanity last century. Some other people had committed crimes against humanity last century (and this century). It is legitimate to investigate the facts, according to the laws of western civilization. But according to talmudists and ziocons, it is illegal to investigate the WWII in relation to Jews, as well as the Bolshevik revolution in relation to Jews. Is this so because the investigation could affect the profiteering schema of holo-biz?

  1167. Mike P says:
    @j2

    like late MOMUS and manorchurch?

    I believe “crimson2” is the second coming of momus/manorchurch. Even if not, he certainly is a worthy successor – reliably making an exhibition of just how nasty, cynical, and dishonest the Zionist cult really is. He is his own cause’s fiercest enemy – wouldn’t miss him for worlds.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1168. @Anon

    QUOTE > Jews constituted perhaps 80-85% of the early Soviet government

    They obviously didn’t, only 1 Jew in the 1st Soviet government. END QUOTE

    They obviously did, as Putin himself stated.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/

    • Replies: @Anon
  1169. L.K says:
    @Anon

    You holocaustcontroversies activists(anon299) are NOBODIES in the world of the holocaust industry.

    You people can lie/smear/distort at will on the net because, since you are a bunch of NOBODIES, there is no accountability.

    The actual holocaust ‘historians’ however, the ones that matter, have to be more careful, otherwise they get caught and their narrative suffers, which is exactly what has happened the few times they even tried.

    Graf describes your cheap propaganda act best;
    The propagandists who run the website Aktion Reinhard Camps(ARC) may be intellectually dishonest, but they are no common fools. Just as Yitzhak Arad, Raul Hilberg or the authors of the collective volume Neue Studien, they know better than to draw attention to the technical and logical absurdities of the Holocaust story, carefully hushing them up instead. They eschew any discussion about the historical accuracy of the official version of events, because they know only too well that such a discussion would open the proverbial can of worms. And yet our would-be dragon slayers routinely do just that. This, and not the abusive language of Nicholas Terry or the obscenities of Roberto Muehlenkamp, is the real reason why orthodox historians and propagandists loathe the Holocaust Controversies blog, and even – as in the case of the ARC website – “caution all to avoid being misled by these individuals.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  1170. L.K says:

    One issue people must understand when thinking of the official holocaust story, is that it was largely manufactured by the Soviets and/or their satellites, even though all the other parties jumped on the bandwagon, adopted it, and ‘refined’ a story that what was, in fact, crude war propaganda.

    Basically, all of the alleged ‘extermination’ of Jews(and non Jews) in ‘death’ camps and by mobile ‘murder’ units(EG), took place either in the USSR or in territories that came under their control.

    For instance, take concentration camp Majdanek, which according to official narrative is described as a combination of labor and extermination camp, like Auschwitz. Pay attention to the crude nature of the propaganda, merely by looking at the death figures that were advanced;

    On July 23, 1944, Lublin concentration camp (which was the official name of the Majdanek camp) was taken over by the Red Army. Soon thereafter, on August 4, a “Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission for Investigating the Crimes Committed by the Germans in the Majdanek Extermination Camp at Lublin” was launched. On August 23 the commission submitted its final report, which stated that 1.5 million people had met their death at Majdanek. …

    The report of the Polish-Soviet Commission was submitted at the Nuremberg Tribunal in 1946 as evidence for the prosecution.[677]

    Four months later, in December 1944, a “Special Tribunal,” which had been set up in Lublin and which sentenced six former members of the camp guards to death, asserted an even higher number of victims than that of the commission. In its justification for the verdict we read:[678]
    “It has been proven that 1,700,000 people were murdered at Majdanek and that Majdanek was an extermination camp in the truest sense of the word.”

    A few years after the end of the war, Polish Judge Zdzislaw Łukaszkiewicz reduced the figure to 360,000.
    The German Düsseldorf Majdanek Trial(1975-1981) claimed a total number of victims of “at least 200,000” of whom “at least 60,000 were Jews”.

    Only after the collapse of the communist regime in Poland did that nation’s historians dare to question the number of 360,000 victims at Majdanek, whose acceptance had been officially mandated since 1948. Czesław Rajca, a member of the Majdanek Memorial staff, published an article in 1992 in which he gave the Majdanek death toll as 235,000.

    At the end of 2005, Tomasz Kranz, chief of the research department at the Majdanek Memorial, further reduced the figure down to 78,000 people(about 59,000 Jews and about 19,000 non-Jews), while still maintaining there were homicidal gas chambers.
    Revisionists Mattogno and Graf, while debunking the gassing claims, estimate a death toll for Majdanek in the range of 42.000-49.000( Jews and gentiles).

  1171. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    crimson2, Israel is the modern-day Nazi state. Moreover, the Jewish State has been arming the neo-Nazis in Ukraine: https://thedailycoin.org/2018/07/16/israel-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/

    “The Azov Battalion uses the Nazi Wolfsangel symbol as its logo. A photo on Azov’s website also shows a Tavor in the hands of one of the militia’s officers. The rifles are produced under licence from Israel Weapon Industries, and as such would have been authorized by the Israeli government.
    IWI markets the Tavor as the “primary weapon” of the Israeli special forces.”

    • Replies: @Wally
  1172. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    All of this irrelevant to the point being made. In any case, the number of the deported refugees is documented.

    It is not irrelevant and you know it.

    Also, I don’t get why you keep bringing up Hungarian Jews!?

    They were never the focus of my research and of my questions regarding Jewish Soviet demographics post-1939-Soviet-annexation Poland et al., see here “The biggest gaps are in Poland, the former Soviet Union and Romania” https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494595

    As far as I know the Soviets never invaded and occupied Hungary prior to 1944, nor did the Germans/Nazis for that matter, so Hungarian Jews, unlike Polish et al. Jews never received Soviet passports/citizenship before that or needed or felt the need to escape from the Germans/Nazis into Soviet territory, but maybe you know more about all this in your All-knowingness?

    You are a master distractor and obfuscator.

    Europe 1939-1940 : Fascist Europe – National powers

    Source: https://www.euratlas.net/history/hisatlas/europe/194039FC.html

    Map Of Europe 1945

    Source: http://keshmiri.me/map-of-europe-1945/

    • Replies: @Anon
  1173. phil says:
    @Anon

    I am certainly open to evidence that Rothstein died somewhere else. The larger question is, of course, what happened to all the people who were sent to the Reinhardt camps.? Do you have a response to Comment #1146 (this thread) by j2?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1174. phil says:
    @Anon

    The point, of course, is that there is not evidence at the site for such a gigantic number of alleged murders. Do you believe that hundreds of thousands of people were killed at Treblinka, and what is the evidence for such a claim?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1175. Wally says:
    @annamaria

    Israel arming ‘Nazis’ is a blatant admission that the so called ‘holocaust’ is BS.

    ‘Jews arming Nazis’. Oops!

    http://www.codoh.com

  1176. Erebus says:
    @crimson2

    I too tried to going into the web archives, and found the wayback machine’s 2013 version. I also found the (same?) web.archive page you link to, however it came up blank for me then, and your link takes me to a page where a variety of links to other articles show up, but the article itself is a blank.

    BTW, perhaps you didn’t notice that your link doesn’t go to that URL. It actually takes me to a page with the URL:
    h*ttps://web.archive.org/web/20100830094238/http://www.thestar.com:80/news/insight/article/742965%E2%80%93a-case-for-letting-nature-take-back-auschwitz.

    In other words, it’s a capture from Aug 30, 2010, a full 8 months after the article was first published. Indeed, the dropdown at the top of the page confirms that. So, if 3 days wasn’t enough to scrub the sentence, 8 months surely was. My guess is it happened within hours, if it happened at all.

    Your apparent glee at finding this error belies a childish, conflicted personality, while your “serious arguments” belie low intellectual capacity combined with a surplus of intellectual dishonesty. Add to that your bellicosity, and you’ve succeeded in making a caricature of a True Believer. As such, you set the bar extraordinarily low for us Deniers. You’d do well to abandon the enterprise before you do more damage to the Holocaust™ brand. You’ve done enough harm already.

  1177. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    These ones, for starters.

    That was my point, very few.

    Even on the Hoefle Telegram Wikipedia page the following is stated:

    The numbers were compiled and quoted by Höfle likely from the very precise records shared with the Deutsche Reichsbahn (DRG).[3] Even though the Holocaust train-records were notoriously incomplete as revealed by the Main Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes against the Polish Nation,[a] the quoted numbers shed a new light on the evidential standard of proof for the scope of the crimes committed by the SS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram

    So, what is it “very precise records” or “the Holocaust train-records were notoriously incomplete”!?

    Maybe the SS and Himmler were massaging/exaggerating the numbers to please Hitler?

    Even Christopher Browning stated:

    First the ideological and political pressure for the creation of a Jew-free Europe that stemmed from Hitler and then the military reverses on the Eastern Front that led to stoppages in railway traffic and caused the buffer zones into which the Jews were to be removed to disappear.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning#Browning%27s_interpretation_of_the_Holocaust

    While she admits she was at the heart of the Nazi propaganda machine, with her tasks including massaging downwards statistics about fallen soldiers, as well as exaggerating the number of rapes of German women by the Red Army, she describes it, somewhat bizarrely, as “just another job”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/15/brunhilde-pomsel-nazi-joseph-goebbels-propaganda-machine

    Regarding your favorite topic, the Hungarian Jews, why would Himmler and the SS want to exterminate all Jews when they tried to use them as leverage in negotiations?

    Joel Brand (25 April 1906 – 13 July 1964) was a leading member, in the 1940s, of Budapest’s Aid and Rescue Committee, which smuggled Jews out of German-occupied Europe to the relative safety of Hungary during the Holocaust. After Germany invaded Hungary in March 1944, Brand became known for his efforts to save the country’s Jews from deportation to the Auschwitz concentration camp in German-occupied Poland.[3]

    In April 1944, Brand was approached by Adolf Eichmann, the German Schutzstaffel (SS) officer who had arrived in Budapest to organize the deportations. Eichmann proposed that Brand broker a deal between the SS and the United States or Britain, in which the Nazis would exchange one million Jews for 10,000 trucks for the Eastern front and large quantities of tea and other goods. It was the most ambitious of a series of such deals between Nazi and Jewish leaders. Eichmann called it “Blut gegen Waren” (“blood for goods”).[3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Brand

    Also, how many Berthold Beitzes and Raoul Wallenbergs https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494634 were there who warned, rescued and hid Jews?

    After witnessing the “Invaliden-Aktion” in August 1942, an SS-led evacuation of a Jewish orphanage in Borysław, Beitz became determined to act to save local Jews. Having a position of importance, Beitz received advance word of Nazi actions against local Jews and provided warning to the Jewish community. He also had the opportunity to select suitable workers from Jews who were being held at transfer points for deportation to concentration camps. In August 1942, he “extricated 250 Jewish men and women from the transport train to the Belzec extermination camp by claiming them as ‘professional workers.’”[3][4] Beitz recalled, “I should have employed qualified personnel. Instead, I chose tailors, hairdressers and Talmudic scholars and gave them all cards as vital ‘petroleum technicians.’“[5]

    Together with his wife Else, Beitz also hid Jews in his home.[3][6][7] He also issued and signed fake work permits to save other Jews from the death camps.[6] In 1943, Beitz’s efforts were nearly exposed after two Jewish girls were arrested on a train to Hungary with forged “Aryan” permits signed by Beitz. Beitz survived despite a Gestapo investigation into the incident, but he was drafted into the German army in March 1944.[3] In total, Beitz has been credited with saving the lives of 800 Jews.[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Beitz#World_War_II

  1178. Wally says:
    @L.K

    Indeed Majdanek was ravagesd by typhus, there were no gas chambers, there is no roof there was.
    Another inconvenient fact:
    U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum displays standard German air-raid shelter door, describing it as the door to a gas chamber at Majdanek
    see text: http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DT/gcturen.html
    http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DT/gcturen_files/doorcasting.jpg
    Only liars try such fakery.

    On the Revision of the Number of Victims at Majdanek, By Jürgen Graf : https://codoh.com/library/document/965/?lang=en
    more on Polish Judge Zdzislaw Łukaszkiewicz: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=lukaszkiewicz

  1179. @Mike P

    Momus at least had somewhat of a clownish charm. (He was still a fucking idiot.) crimson2 lacks any kind of redeeming quality, truly vile.

  1180. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Laughable. You don’t even know the narrative you are trying defend.

    Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), for example, “a total of 870,000 Jews were killed & buried at Treblinka.
    Also try Jew / Zionist controlled Wikipedia, range goes to 900, 000

    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
    photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg, which claims ca. 900,000 Jews murdered:It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
    Does anyone see any “corpses”?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1181. @L.K

    Yes, after the Soviets captured Majdanek in the summer of 1944, they immediately went into propaganda overdrive re. the unpleasantness of the crematoria. The Germans were ever-mindful of the black propaganda from WW1, which doubtless explains why they demolished the crematoria at Auschwitz but puzzlingly left actually functioning delousing chambers intact.

  1182. @Cyrano

    I doubt that most Russians are as dog-shit stupid as you are, but if any appreciable number is, then it’s easy to see why they can be led by the nose like pack mules on this topic.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  1183. @phil

    I know the Abrahamic religions founding books well enough to find it believable that Hitler’s most fanatical henchmen like Himmler could conceive and run an extermination campaign in days before their pussy-whipping PC SJW granddaughters and pussy-whipped PC grandsons made it just as unthinkable as it was for the ordinary educated and intelligent upper class European when people like Frankfurter couldn’t believe the horror stories he was being told (OK it occurs to me that embellishments probably sparked suspicion and extra care in his lawyer’s mind). With similar reliance on general reasoning rather than my own research I have little doubt that Stalin would have broken the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact and attacked Germany when he thought he could win. Why that should lead to his armies being in vulnerable forward positions in June 1941 isn’t at all obvious but the big question in my mind is how Stalin could have been caught so completely by surprise. Can someone tell me that there is a satisfyingly i-dotting explanation for that? Having purged thousands of officers and people being afraid to tell him, even if they could, truths he didn’t want to hear must have been important but that only helped set the stage.

  1184. cassandra says:
    @Anon

    400.000 in 60 days is 6700 per day. This site, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_trains, says

    On 18 August 1942, Waffen SS officer Kurt Gerstein had witnessed at Belzec the arrival of “45 wagons with 6,700 people, of whom 1,450 were already dead on arrival”.

    So eyewitness German testimony indicates that it’s possible. On the other hand,

    The SS manual covered such trains, suggesting a carrying capacity per each trainset of 2,500 people in 50 cars, each boxcar loaded with 50 prisoners. In reality, however, boxcars were routinely loaded to 200% of capacity, or 100 people per car.[41] This resulted in an average of 5,000 people per trainset. Notably, during the mass deportation of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka in 1942, trains carried up to 7,000 victims each.

    To paraphrase the Sanning article that Anon quoted, this allows me to say without reasonable doubt that there is reasonable doubt. I’m inclined to agree with jilles, because I doubt that a system can function at peak capacity for 2 months, and the numbers are more likely to be inflated than not for dramatic impact. But who can claim to really know, and which among those can be believed? Even a simple assessment like this is shrouded in fog, which only gets denser the closer one looks.

    The holohoax propaganda with the ad hominem discrediting of sincere investigators, has put historical information in such a distrustful state that very little can be clearly or honestly established without delving into archives as deeply as Irving has done, and few have the drive and skill to do that. (That attempts were made to silence Irving hasn’t benefited his opponents’ credibility.) So people will continue to jump to partisan conclusions, and to make knee-jerk claims based on data from biased sources. My own sympathies lean to the side of those who have behaved with the greatest integrity.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  1185. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ….but the big question in my mind is how Stalin could have been caught so completely by surprise. Can someone tell me that there is a satisfyingly i-dotting explanation for that?

    My take: war on two fronts for Nazi regime.

    Yes, Stalin knew that the war with Nazi regime was going to happen, but, only after Nazi regime took care of the Western front. Subdue United Kingdom.
    After taking out UK strategic regrouping and attack on Soviet Union.

    Stalin did not believe that Hitler would do “two fronts”, simple as that.

    As for Soviet deployment, it was for active defense. Soviet doctrinal, strategic and operational thinking was quite at high level at the time.
    What they were lacking were fundamentals. The decimation of officer corps and enlargement of armed forces made Soviet forces lacking those fundamentals, but that weakness was being addressed.
    Stalin simply needed time to get all that at the desired level.

    If some want a bit of clarification re above I could try. If the question is civil and shows some related expertise.

    And, not sorry to disappoint, I am not going to “debate” this with people who believe Hitler “pre-empted” Stalin.

    Whoever believes whatever is fine with me.
    Free will.

    • Agree: iffen
  1186. @Wizard of Oz

    No doubt there were few around Stalin willing to tell him he was putting their forces in vulnerable positions. But ultimately he probably simply thought Hitler wouldn’t be audacious enough to attack while Britain was still in the fight and that he (Stalin) had complete initiative. Therefore he could proceed with plans to attack, esp. in light of the resources he possessed.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1187. crimson2 says:
    @Art

    I can’t stand Netanyahu and I support BDS, so what the fuck are you even talking about?

    • Replies: @Art
  1188. crimson2 says:
    @L.K

    The Star merely edited the bloody interview a bit, from what it was back in 09

    Are you so stupid that you don’t understand that I provided an archived web page from 2009?

    Anyway, you could prove me wrong by dredging up this mythical original article. But we both know you won’t.

  1189. Cyrano says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Do you really think you are the best qualified to discuss the topic of stupid, you monkey? If you look in the dictionary under stupid, I bet there is a picture of you.

  1190. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Crimson2

    Which quote?

  1191. Anonymous [AKA "Steibergfeldwitzcohen"] says:

    Holoco$t….cuz we said so
    No else has suffered…fuck u armenians
    Cept t when it’s convenient and we want to prove a pattern..er…so namibia
    Gas vans…anti-Semites…we have zufferred gimme ur $…most moral people…Palestinians force us to kill…Corbyn bad, resign or we’ll leave e ngla dn…..
    Anything I missed ?

  1192. Anonymous [AKA "Don Chandler"] says:
    @Polymath

    I read some time ago that the World Jewish Congress executed a census of Jews worldwide shortly before and shortly after WWII. If I recall correctly, the totals were in the range of 16 million at both points in time, with the latter census reporting a drop of about a quarter of a million. I can’t seem to easily re-discover my source at this moment. You may have better luck.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1193. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    In Germany there are three main Y-DNA haplogroups, RB1 in the West, I1 in the North and R1a in the East. R1a are of Slavic origins.

    Interesting. Do you know, or can you surmise, the group(s), respectively, to which the Prussians, the Teutonic Knights, and the Anglo-Saxons who emigrated to England belong?

    • Replies: @j2
  1194. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    Interesting comment. Thank you.

  1195. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    There survived 410,000 Jews in concentration camps, that is all from West.

    This is the number of survivors in the Western Poland camps? In all of the Soviet conquered camps? In “the West”–Western Germany etc.!

    • Replies: @j2
  1196. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @crimson2

    Most of these people are lying because they love the idea of mass murdering Jews (and gays and blacks and etc.).

    If they love the idea of mass murdering Jews, why do the challenge stories of mass murders of Jews?

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1197. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    Believe me they say even much worse than that. I know, I used to be part of the cult

    What are some examples of things they say?

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1198. kikl says:
    @peterAUS

    “Yes, Stalin knew that the war with Nazi regime was going to happen, but, only after Nazi regime took care of the Western front. Subdue United Kingdom.
    After taking out UK strategic regrouping and attack on Soviet Union.

    Stalin did not believe that Hitler would do “two fronts”, simple as that.”

    Thus, Stalin didn’t believe Hitler posed any threat to him, since subduing the United Kingdom had failed. Therefore, there was no need to concentrate huge armies at the border to Germany.

    Nevertheless Stalin did exactly this. The reason: He planning to wage a war of aggression in order to spread communism across Europe. Q.E.D.

  1199. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    > They obviously did, as Putin himself stated.

    LOL, since when is “Putin himself” an academic historical source?

    Debunked.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1200. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @L.K

    > You holocaustcontroversies activists(anon299) are NOBODIES in the world of the holocaust industry.

    Please note that ad hominems and insults are not an argument.

    Your lies have been debunked. Can you formulate a counterargument?

    Take your time.

    > Graf describes your cheap propaganda act best;

    Jürgen Graf is a proven liar:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/05/jurgen-grafs-lie-about-hungarian-jewish.html
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/busted-jurgen-graf-caught-lying-again.html
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/jrgen-graf-is-liar.html
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/he-sure-is.html

    > is the real reason why orthodox historians and propagandists loathe the Holocaust Controversies blog

    And this claim is another lie by Graf.

    Add to this Emory University’s/Deborah Lipstadt’s site Holocaust Denial on Trial, which heavily relies on us:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahdot.org+holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

    Meanwhile no one serious takes the denier loons’ claims seriously.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1201. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > It is not irrelevant and you know it.

    It is entirely irrelevant, and you know it.

    > Also, I don’t get why you keep bringing up Hungarian Jews!?

    As an example of how your musings (which are debunked by Soviet documents anyway) are irrelevant.

    Can you explain where they went?

  1202. Wally says:
    @peterAUS

    You’re wrong again.
    These make you look foolish, but then what else is new? LOL

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    Lot’s of details about the offensive positioning of Soviet weapons, materials, & men.
    Info. about Stalin’s speech to the Politburo stating his plan to attack
    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR: https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/
    even Ron Unz agrees that Stalin was about to attack

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1203. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    > The larger question is, of course, what happened to all the people who were sent to the Reinhardt camps.?

    Indeed, and the deniers have no answer after so many decades. Could it be that denial is just a cultic religion which already “knows” the answer and doesn’t care how it arrives at it or whether there is any evidence for it?

    > Do you have a response to Comment #1146 (this thread) by j2?

    I’ve taken a look. It’s some numbers-juggling nonsense that doesn’t answer the basic question: where the Jews went to; where they stayed if they were transferred at all; where are the survivors; and at least one confirmed name of a person so transited. Saying “POW camps” or “DP camps” etc. is hand-waving. What camps specifically, what were the routes, where are the survivors.

    • Replies: @phil
  1204. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “> From Auschwitz to other camps
    What camps? Name the camps.”

    Here you have the names of ghettos and work camps including an estimate how many died in the camps. The figures are taken from a list, which once was in the Wikipedia under something like Nazi work camps in Poland. In many camps the death toll did not clearly divide it into Jews and non-Jews, so I had to estimate the Jewish part, but the errors should cancel and the final result should be rather correct:
    Dead in ghettos and work camps in Poland, excluding Majdanek: Warsaw ghetto (76.000) before the uprising, Łódź ghetto (43.800), Tarnow (10.000), Stanisławów (about 10.000), Kielce (6.000), Stryj (4.000-12.000), Tomazów Mazowiecki (4.000), Sieniawa (3.000), Pietrków Trybunalski (3.000), Zagórów (2.000-2.500), Minsk Mazowicki (1.300), Nowy Zmigrow (1.300) and Góra Kalvaria (300). Total 165.000-173.000 Jews.
    There were also labor camps in Germany and elsewhere. In German camps died 390.000, but not all were Jews. This figure I calculated as Bergen-Belsen 0.05 million, Buchenwaldt 0.05, Ravensbruk some 0.09, Mauthausen maybe 0.08 (mostly non-Jews), Flossenberg 0.03, Dachau 0.027 its subcamp 0.01. The rest, that is Gross-Rosen, Stutthof, Sachenhausen, Neuengammen, Natzweiler, Mittelbau, etc. together make maybe 0.05. These all sum to 0.39 million. How many were Jews? I don’t know, I guess about 0.3 million.

    “Since I’ve obviously stated no such thing, you’ve been caught lying.
    I expressly said that 320,000 Hungarian Jews were found unable to work.
    The rest of the Jews (those who were found able to work), about 110k of them, were indeed transferred to labor camps, which is well documented.”

    Not lying, that is a too strong a claim. You on purpose did not mention the 110,000 transferred to labor camps, as this fact would have weakened your claim that those sent to Auschwitz and not registered were killed. I did not notice this, as typically Holocaust defenders claim that all 440,000 Hungarian Jews were burned in Auschwitz. It seemed that you believe there were only 320,000 Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz and they were all killed. You at least now explicitly admit that 110,000 were sent to labor camps, but you tried to hide this known fact. It is kind of lying from you.

    The American Jewish Year Book 1938-39 gives the Hungarian Jewish population as 444,567. Thus, you may be correct that 320,000 were not sent to labor camps. The upper bound for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 400,000 and 60,000 of them were deaths of registered Jewish inmates. The difference is 340,000. This naturally could include 320,000 Hungarian Jews, but I think it is more likely that these 320,000 were sent directly to Operation Reinhard camps, Treblinka probably. Theoretically it is possible they were killed in Auschwitz, but the areal photos do not support the claims of outside fires for burning such a large number of bodies. Also the high water level makes such burning in mass graves unlikely.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1205. @peterAUS

    ” And, not sorry to disappoint, I am not going to “debate” this with people who believe Hitler “pre-empted” Stalin. ”
    No debate is necessary, the facts are in Russian archives:
    Bogdan Musial, ‘Kampfplatz Deutschland, Stalins Kriegspläne gegen den Westen’, Berlin 2008

  1206. Wally says:
    @cassandra

    LENGHTY, select ‘more’ if necesssary.

    Citing Wikipedia? Why? It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    Kurt Gerstein? Seriously?
    There are SIX different & contradicting versions of his statements. see:

    The ‘Confessions’ of Kurt Gerstein: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p223_Dibert.html

    The Gerstein Report: The Anatomy of a Fraud: https://codoh.com/library/document/2150/?lang=en

    From the Gerstein Affair to the Roques Affair, Paper Presented to the Eighth International Revisionist Conference : https://codoh.com/library/document/2193/?lang=en

    Some Comments on the Gerstein Reports, By Thomas Kues : https://codoh.com/library/document/653/?lang=en

    The ‘Confessions’ of Kurt Gerstein, Book Review By A. Dibert : https://codoh.com/library/document/2285/?lang=en

    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=++Gerstein

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1207. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “Do you know, or can you surmise, the group(s), respectively, to which the Prussians, the Teutonic Knights, and the Anglo-Saxons who emigrated to England belong?”

    Concerning Anglo-Saxons I think Stephen Oppenheimer’s book The Origins of the British is still quite valid, though it was printed 2006. Anglo-Saxons were close to Denmark and the main Y-DNA haplogroup was probably I1. About the haplogroups of Teutonic Knights I do not know, they were crusaders from the Holy Roman Empire, so that was a large empire. The locals were Slavs, so R1a and the pagans they fought included Finnish-related people in Estonia and also Latvia, that is N1c. I1 is of course Scandinavians, the original Germanic speaking people. Therefore Prussians must have had lots of R1a and many other haplogroups. Western Germany has lots of R1b, which is the Indo-European people, who moved to Europe around 3000 BC, maybe predecessors of Celts.

  1208. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    OK, so you have no source for your earlier claim that all the remains are still supposed to be there now.

    The evidence is simple:

    – 800k people were deported to the camp and that was their last stop, since we know they didn’t arrive anywhere else (see e.g. http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/12/belzec-sobibor-treblinka-holocaust_6747.html );

    – Treblinka 2 was a documented extermination site:

    – Treblinka was a documented site for mass burial of Jews: https://twitter.com/AgainstDenial/status/1030523938567278594

    – during the West German trials in the 1950-60s numerous camp functionaries described the extermination that went on in the camp – freely and without coercion;

    Hence the only conclusion is that these people were murdered there.

    Deniers have not offered any sane and minimally confirmed alternative version.

    • Replies: @phil
  1209. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    Still no names of the Jews transited through those camps to the “Russian East” from you.

    Remember – 1000$ per name.

    Carpe diem.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/07/challenge-to-supporters-of-revisionist.html

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1210. @peterAUS

    Stalin was not at all caught by surprise, Russian spy Sorge in Tokyo transmitted the exact date of Hitlers attack to Moscow
    F.W. Deakin and G.R. Storry, ‘The case of Richard Sorge’, New York, 1966
    Sorge got no reply, and was very angry that Stalin did nothing.
    My interpretation: Stalin was unable to speed up his war preparations.
    As Bogdan Musial describes, the Red Army, and the Russian raylway system, were a mess at the time.
    Stalin had exterminated all capable Red Army officers, on top of that party members supervised the officers.
    During their advance in Russia at the time the German army was surprised at the number of unknown airfields they found, with concrete runways.
    All during WWII Germans and the British just used grass runways.

  1211. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Laughable. You don’t even know the narrative you are trying defend.

    I see that Mr. KL Vershiedene has his usual reading comprehension problems.

    The issue is not whether most bodies were once buried but whether anyone claims they’re still buried there now.

  1212. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    You are referring to the World Almanac meme. One of the postwar numbers in the Almanac (a wiki of its day, hardly a scholarly source) the deniers are running around with, is simply unsourced and thus useless.

    More at http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#worldalmanac

  1213. @FKA Max

    The Brand case for me remains nebulous.
    Brand seems to have been arrested in Cairo by the British, nevertheless is asserted to have spoken to Moyne, who is accused of having said ‘what am I to do with a million jews ?’.
    I always wondered where this million was to be found, where they were supposed to go, and how.
    In any case, zionists later murdered Moyne, one of Churchill’s best friends.
    For this reason, again, it is asserted, Churchill turned away from zionism.

  1214. Wally says:
    @j2

    said:
    ‘There is a famous photo of this burning of bodies in open fire”?

    You mean the fake cut & paste job with spaghetti people painted in. LOL
    see:

    [MORE]

    ‘holocaust controversies’ claim obvious forgeries are ‘cremation photos’ … they’re ALL fake: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11020
    ex.:

    see link for much more

    said:
    “Only some are fabricated, many must be true, only often misinterpreted. This sounds true.”
    Then please give us the names of your alleged “true eyewitnesses”, what they actually said in their own words, where & when they said it. Please tell us what courts they testified in.

    Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.

    said:
    “One Auschwitz eyewitness tells having seen from a window green bodies, with missing fingers and skin falling apart, being taken to the crematorium.”
    LOL
    Citation? Who said that & what specifically did the say, in their own words

  1215. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @cassandra

    > 400.000 in 60 days is 6700 per day. This site,

    Even more at times, since there was a pause.

    Obviously, no one claims that they were all squeezed into one train. The distribution can be seen here: http://www.zchor.org/hungaria

    On average, 3k per train.

    > this allows me to say without reasonable doubt that there is reasonable doubt.

    Your argument did not exactly make sense.

    The deportation is copiously documented, there is no reasonable doubt about it.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1216. @FKA Max

    Browning, the man who accepted at face value the ‘confessions’ of some twelve asserted members of the said 1000 members of the Einsatz Gruppen.
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    He apparently did not know of the torture that at the time was interrogation.
    ‘Confessing’ was the only way to stop it.
    Butz indeed asks how it was possible that the reports of these highly secret Einsatz Gruppen were distributed in a hundred or so copies each time.

    Yet Browning’s book is interesting, he describes how the Lithuanians, there even are pictures, if these are real, I do not know, killed their jews, sometimes beating them to death.
    That Lithuanians killed many jews is beyond reasonable dispute.
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heschel’s Rijk, Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam, 1998

    The reason is to be found in jews controlling the Lithuanian economy.
    This control was even mentioned in the Lithuanian parliament when Unesco wanted give money for the restauration of the Vilnius ghetto, a tiny place, to my surprise.
    Lonely Planet Guide ‘Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania’, Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.

  1217. @Anon

    ” “Tomorrow, right after nightfall, the camp will start on its march. Block by block. The sick can remain in the infirmary. They will not be evacuated.” ”

    Even the sick preferred to go

    • Replies: @Anon
  1218. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    I saw somewhere recently the designs for crematoria, now I think I remember they were from a German engineering firm called Topf, which recognised both that human bodies are mostly water but that the y also can be made to burn well. The trick was to have the bodies dry out as they descended in the mechanized crematory flow equipment towards the actual flames which would start them burning. It clearly makes good sense as a simple conceptual solution to the humans-are-water problem. Whether it would work in practice and whether it was made to work I have no idea.

  1219. Wally says:
    @Anon

    I see no debunking in your links. Only your frustrated unspecific dodging claims.
    Now please show us a “gas van”. LOL

    and oops! alleged ‘gas vans mass murderer’ SS Rauff worked for the Israelis: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4195

    And why would this be necessary if they were factual:
    Gas Van Film and Photo Fraud, German News Magazine and Simon Wiesenthal Center’s Museum Caught Faking Photo and Film Captions: http://codoh.com/library/document/3276

    Tell us how alleged diesel exhaust could kill people? LOL
    Communist “witnesses” described specific Sauer models which were verifiably diesel.
    And at the Soviet Show Trials, the Soviets themselves said they were diesel.
    Ouch!

    Please show us the alleged millions of Jews claimed to be immense mass graves in allegedly known places.
    Please show us the alleged humans of 34,000 Jews that are claimed to still be at Babi Yar ravine, many were supposedly killed in gas vans and tossed in with the others & buried. BTW, a Jew team looked for them looked, but came up empty.

    Tell us specifically what is incorrect in your opinion about this:
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers, by Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues
    https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

    Why do dodge this?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1220. Otterboy says:
    @Heros

    No, not a Marxist. I’m agnostic and not attached to any religion or ideology. I just try and live as a good human being

    With regards to Rabbis, sexual abuse was rife in the Lubavic school my brothers and I used to attend in the North London area of Stamford Hill. Lots of kids we grew up with were abused and it was attempted on my brother but in his case the rabbi picked on the wrong kid. In fact that incident was one of the catalysts that led to us ‘escaping’ the grip of the orthodox rabbis but we all still believed we were Jewish and zionist.

    Only later on I began asking myself the question ‘what is a jew?’ if I’m no longer practising the religion or believe any of its history and dogma then what makes me a jew? Is it a race? Is it an ethnicity? A very puzzling question and my conclusion was that I was no longer a jew because I no longer practised or believed in anything to do with the religion.

    Gilad Atzmon, who also describes himself as an ex Jew, dealt with this very question in his book “The Wandering Who” and I think he did a very good job. Incidentally, this incredibly talented musician is accused by the Jewish community of being a holocaust denier. He’s been attacked physically by militant Jewish thugs, harassed regularly and there is an unrelenting campaign to discredit him, ban him from playing in certain venues worldwide and basically destroy him financially. And he’s never “denied” the holocaust. All he’s ever said is that it should be open to revision and scrutiny like every other historical period because the concept of free speech must be preserved at all costs. But even that position, especially from a fairly well known personality, who has abandoned his Jewish heritage is all it takes to have the full weight of organised Jewish power to attack you in every way they can and this includes personal physical attacks and intimidation.

    I’m not an expert and neither have I read up or researched some of the subjects you have asked about sufficiently to give a proper informed opinion. In fact I had no idea I would end up even commenting at all. This is the first time I’ve commented on Unz, although a regular reader, and I hardly comment anywhere else. However when I read Crimson2’s disparaging remarks towards Ron Unz I just wanted to make a point about free speech. I intended to leave it right there but then he couldn’t help himself with his psychotic projection and here we are

    I happen to know quite a bit about the holocaust and also had the opportunity to visit a couple of the sites. So I have an informed opinion. But I’m no expert on the other subjects but happy to give you my opinion, informed or not. However if I have no or very little knowledge my answer will be negative because I’m not in the habit of blaming any group for anything unless I feel I have some knowledge to back it up

    “- Do you believe that jews planned and carried out 9/11?”

    studied this quite a bit. My personal conclusion is that it was carried out by the (mostly) Jewish neocons and Mossad.

    “- Do you believe that the Rothschild family have controlled certain Freemason lodges for centuries? ”

    From my limited knowledge and reading as well as from discussions with friends and acquaintances with more knowledge than me, yes I do.

    “- Do you believe that jews ran the slave trade and still have control of narcotics across the planet? ”

    From the reading and research I’ve done, Jews were definitely a significant player in the Atlantic Slave Trade, and definitely over represented in terms of their population numbers at the time and from both sides of the Atlantic (more from the European side). But I cannot state with any kind of certainty that they “ran” it. I don’t believe that they have control of narcotics across the planet today but my knowledge of this is almost non existent

    “- Do you believe that jews still practice ritual child bloodletting and sacrifice”

    I have no knowledge of this so the answer is no.

    I hope that helps

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Heros
  1221. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “I expressly said that 320,000 Hungarian Jews were found unable to work.
    The rest of the Jews (those who were found able to work), about 110k of them, were indeed transferred to labor camps, which is well documented.
    What happened to the rest?”

    Read the following very carefully. Starting from the Yad Vashem list from FKA Max comment 1145 I calculated the upper bound for the Auschwitz argument using Yad Vashem numbers. The result is the same as earlier. The upper bound for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 400,000. As this number is much smaller than the official estimate 1.1M, we can conclude that the official story is false. Therefore, the likely Jewish death toll in Auschwitz is 60,000 registered deaths. Consequently, 320,000 Hungarian Jews were transported out of Auschwitz, probably to Treblinka.

    [MORE]

    These are the Yad Vashem numbers from comment 1145.
    Poland 3,000,000 1,770,000

    Ukraine 600,000 282,000
    Russia 165,000 57,750
    Lithuania 143,000 64,350
    Estonia 2,000 1,800
    Belarus 300,000 105,000
    Latvia 71,500 38,610
    Sum SU of 1946 1,281,500 549,510

    Hungary 290,000 208,800
    Czechoslovakia 263,000 236,700
    Germany 141,500 127,350
    Austria 65,000 64,350
    Netherlands 100,000 97,000
    France 77,320 75,774
    Greece 67,000 50,250
    Belgium 28,900 28,033
    Italy 7,680 7,603
    Luxemburg 1,950 1,365
    Norway 762 381
    Denmark 60 57
    Sum 1,043,172 897,663

    Romania 410,000 225,000
    Yugoslavia 63,300 58,869
    Sum 473,300 283,869

    Libya 600 270
    Tunisia 200 180
    Sum 800 450

    ********************
    We are not interested on such Jews, who could not be transported to Poland and Western Europe, so Yugoslavia Jews were shot in Yugoslavia, Romanians took care of their Jews and Africa is far.

    Poland 3,000,000 1,770,000
    West 1,043,172 897,663
    SU of 1946 1,281,500 549,510
    Sum 5,324,672 3,217,173

    The rest 474,100 284,319 (Romania, Yugoslavia, Africa)
    Total 5,798,772 3,501,492

    Form this summary we see that in Western Poland could be deaths only from West Poland and West and 60,000 transported to West Poland from East. There were 80,000 survivors in West Poland not caught by Nazis (hiding) and 410,000 Jews survived in concentration camps, of them maybe 150,000 Polish Jews. That means West Polish Jewish survivors were about 170,000=80,000+150,000-60,000. Originally there were 1,840,000 Jews in Western Poland, There could have died 1,670,000 Jews of Western Poland.

    West Poland 1,670,000
    West 1,043,172
    SUM 2,713,172

    This is the sum of Jews that could have died in concentration camps, labor camps, ghettos, battle in West and Western Poland. Let us sum the official death toll for West and Western Poland.
    Extermination camps:
    Auschwitz 1.1M
    Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec 1.45M
    Majdanek 0.06M
    Chelmno 0,15M
    SUM 2.760,000

    Other:
    Labor camps and ghettos in Poland 0.167M
    Camps in Germany 0.3M
    Theresienstadt 0.03M
    Invasion, upraisal 0.057M
    SUM 0.554M

    We see now that the number of Jews that could have died in West or Western Poland, 2,713,172, is 601,000 smaller than the number 3.314M who are claimed to have died.

    The only explanation is that the death toll for Auschwitz is 600,000 too large and can be at most 500,000 by this calculation. If we take into account that there were 300,000 surviving Polish Jews and almost all were from Western Poland (Jews of Eastern Poland mosly did not return to Poland or to the West), then the upper bound for Auschwitz is 400,000. The simplest explanation for this upper bound 400,000 is that the number of Jews in Western Poland has been estimated too high, it was not 1.84M, it was about 1.5M and in Auschwitz died only 60,000 Jews. The Jewish polulation of Poland in 1939 was according to this 2.75M, not 3.25M.

    This now answers your question totally. Do not any more repeat it. Just look at these numbers and compare to the official story-line, you see the official story is wrong.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Anon
  1222. Wally says:
    @Anon

    In addition, see your silly Zionist ‘holocaust controversies’ shysters utterly demolished here:

    ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ slapped silly lies about their Hungarian Jews lies: http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    Questions for Holocaust Controversies to answer/debate here. : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11786

    Has anybody been able to kind of convince you to believe official holo. narrative / Andrew Mathis, “Holo. Controversies”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11770

    Carlo Mattogno demolishes HC’s Roberto Muehlenkamp & those like him on laughable ‘sardine pack’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11322

    much, much more on the lies of ‘holocaust controversies’: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=holocaust+controversies&fid%5B0%5D=2

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1223. Wally says:
    @j2

    said:
    “There is a famous photo of this burning of bodies in open fire. It most certainly is about opening a mass grave and trying to burn the bodies”

    The spaghetti people from your cited photo’ LOL

  1224. @Anon

    I wouldn’t want to put too much on you as someone content to chip in critically to Unz’s own website with an anonymous handle. But I think your objections, put directly to Ron Unz, would be resolved decisively in his favour on the question of honesty and candour that you think you have plausibly raised. If you live near him in California it would surely be possible for you to debate him. You challenge him to a three hour debate and dinner event. If it was at Palo Alto he would probably pay for it! Elsewhere you say “next time you are in or near [your location] let me arrange a dinner and debate night at my club (the committee will allow cameras in so it won’t waste your time as a one off)”. After he has made mincemeat of you I think you will have trouble with “dishonest” again though you could try saying of a debate with the former physicist “Unfair typical bloody Jewish wordsmith….”. The points made in the “Confronting Denial” tweet or post that you rely on were so slight it is ridiculous to bill them as a refutation. Not that it wasn’t peripherally valid inasmuch as I would agree that one shouldn’t waste time reading Paul Craig Roberts and don’t regard him as a good source for anything.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1225. j2 says:
    @j2

    Let us continue with Yad Vashem numbers to the East. As there could not have died more than 2.7M in West and Western Poland, but Yad Vashem gives the total death excluding Romania, Yugoslavia and Africa as 5.3M, there must be 2.6M deaths in area of the Soviet Union of 1946. But this number is 0.5M too high since the Jewish population in these areas could have been 2.8M in the SU of 1940 and 1.35M in the Eastern Poland occupied by Soviets. Then Germans transported 60,000 to the Western Poland. There remained 4.1M. In 1948 the Soviet Jewish population was 2M. Thus, only 2.1M could have died. We see that Yad Vashem death toll is at least 0.5M too high.

    We can have a brief look at Romania. Yad Vashem claims that 410,000 died in Romania and their database has 225,000 names of those who died. AJY 1939-40 overestimates Romania’s Jewish population in 1939 to 0.9 million. According to newer studies Romanian Jewish population in 1939 was 0.6 million. To Displaced Person -camps arrived after 1946 0.123 million Romanian Jews and 0.3 million stayed in Romania, thus 0.177 million Romanian Jews died out of the pre-war 0.6 million. The 600,000 Romanian Jews before the war is only an estimate, thus the death toll can be a bit larger. We can assume it is about 225,000 that Yad Vashem has found. This means that the total death toll of Yad Vashem is 410,000-225,000=185,000 too large.

    Reducing the 0.5M from the SU of 1946 and 0.185M from Romania, the total death toll drops from 5,798,772 to 5.48M. Clearly, Yad Vashem has a wrong number. How did they derive the number 5.798,772? It comes from subtracting the Jewish populations of European countries in 1948 from populations in 1939. This calculation is made in the AJC yearbook 1948-49 and it has the problem that it ignores emigration out of countries occupied by Nazis. The emigration is 799,000.
    – 75,000 legal transfer to Palestine 1939-46
    – 138,000 legal transfer to Palestine 1946-48
    – 110,000 illegal transfer to Palestine 1939-46
    – 338,000 to Israel 1948-53
    – 137,000 to the USA, 1948-53
    – 20,000 to Canada and Sout Africa, 1948-53
    – the Jewish population of European countries that were not occupied by Nazis grew from 0.389M to 0.48M, that is 91,000.
    Subtracting this figure from 5.48M gives 4.68M. A more precise calculation of the death toll gives 4.5M, but 4.68M is not much different.

    Thus, Yad Vashem figures support the death toll being about 4.5M. This explains why their database has only 3.5M names with known birth place and why their database in total has only 4.7M names.

    The question if 4.5M, or 4.7M, actually were in Europe depends on the populations in Eastern Europe. Where the Jews really there, or had 1M illegally immigrated to the USA? This may explain why the database has names with birth places only for 3.5M.

    In total, starting from the Yad Vashem numbers the conclusions are the same. Starting from any reasonable numbers you always come to a contradiction with the 1.1M dead in Auschwitz and you always come to a figure about 4.5M dead assuming that the Soviet Union population figure for 1940 is 2.8M, which it not necessarily was.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @utu
  1226. j2 says:
    @j2

    Sorry, there is missing the illegal transfer of 110,000 to Palestine 1939-46. This gives the 4.5M.

  1227. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    Just link us to your well researched book with its scrupulous footnotes instead of wasting our time with your dream sequences based on nothing but whatever turns you on.

  1228. Otterboy says:
    @Colin Wright

    Out of nearly all the commenters on this site, I would say that your position is one of the closest to our dear friend Crimson2. Yet in his reply to you he said:

    “And screw you for thinking Sandy Hook denial is innocent fun.”

    If you go back to the early part of the comments there was hardly any ad hominem abuse, name calling or such stuff. As soon as Crimson showed up he started abusing everyone with his psychotic projection and since then a whole load of the comments deteriorated into abusive name calling, mostly by him.

    If he thinks that this is the correct way to debate people, regardless of what views they might hold, he’s sorely mistaken and the opposite will happen. He simply brings out the worst in people (including me) and nothing positive will ever come from abusing and slandering people. It will just cause all sides to dig in deeper.

    I’ve experienced his type on too many occasions, unfortunately. He’s not doing anyone or any side any favours. But they have no self awareness except their total sense of righteous superiority which is just as dangerous as the nazis he keeps calling everyone

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @utu
  1229. @L.K

    As if the demand for material evidence for the alleged biggest slaughter in the history of mankind were unreasonable.

    The biggest?

  1230. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Yes, it is possible by going to the far end of a normal person’s imagination to understand Stalin so torn by suspicion that he would have seen Britain as desperate to get the Soviet Union involved and therefore examining every warning from every source as possible proof that the cunning Brits were weaving a web of deception round him. One can imagine him, in anger and frustration, being very dangerous to work for if you were bringing him that suspect intelligence (that happened to be right). So…. maybe no great mystery.

  1231. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    > Here you have the names of ghettos and work camps including an estimate how many died in the camps.

    Please list the camps that took the 320,000 Hungarian Jews *unable to work* that were transported to Auschwitz, not registered there and not registered as transferred to other camps. Also list the evidence for those claims.

    Thank you.

    > You on purpose did not mention the 110,000 transferred to labor camps,

    Everyone familiar with the topic knows this, and I did mention the 320k were part of the 430k deported.

    > as this fact would have weakened your claim that those sent to Auschwitz and not registered were killed

    In no way, since the phenomenon of the transit Jews is well-documented and well-known (among those minimally interested in the topic).

    We know from the Glaser list that about 110k were saved for work; and even Carlo Mattogno independently established from transfer documents that about 108k were transferred to other camps.

    But those were, obviously, the Jews able to work.

    What happened to the 320k unable to work?

    > I did not notice this, as typically Holocaust defenders claim that all 440,000 Hungarian Jews were burned in Auschwitz

    Not anyone well-informed.

    > It seemed that you believe there were only 320,000 Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz and they were all killed.

    No, I specifically stated they were a part of the 430k deported to Auschwitz.

    > You at least now explicitly admit that 110,000 were sent to labor camps, but you tried to hide this known fact

    Since the fact is well-known, how could I have tried to “hide” it? Stop with the attempted deceptions, please.

    > but I think it is more likely that these 320,000 were sent directly to Operation Reinhard camps

    AR camps were empty fields at this point in time, long-ago ceased functioning previous year, overrun by the Soviets in summer 1944. You’re absolutely clueless, aren’t you?

    > Treblinka probably. Theoretically it is possible they were killed in Auschwitz, but the areal photos do not support the claims of outside fires for burning such a large number of bodies.

    Actually exactly the aerial photos confirm the open-air burnings at this point in time, which is hugely incriminating (given that typhus was fully under control at the time and the few bodies that were accumulating from “natural causes” each day could have been easily handled by any of the Kremas):

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-auschwitz-open-air-incineration.html

    > Also the high water level makes such burning in mass graves unlikely.

    There was no such high water level at the time.

    • Replies: @utu
  1232. utu says:
    @Otterboy

    Do you think that Wally is better?

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @Colin Wright
    , @Otterboy
  1233. @Anon

    It was too easy to predict the deniers would quote Wiesel (their only source)

    Oh, so you did in fact know about Wiesel all along when you asked “Source about them having “chosen” this?”.

  1234. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Those that did feared that the sick ppl staying in the camp would be murdered, as is clearly stated in Wiesel’s book.

  1235. crimson2 says:
    @Anonymous

    If they love the idea of mass murdering Jews, why do the challenge stories of mass murders of Jews?

    This isn’t hard to figure out. Because it slanders all Jews as liars. Ron Unz joins in this slander.

    Also, these delusional cockroaches think they have a chance to rehabilitate the Nazi movement. Hard to get things rolling if you admit to being genocidal.

  1236. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Here is the explanation, with the actual German wartime docs (incl. from Topf) cited:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/09/short-debunking-of-steven-andersons.html#cremationexplained

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  1237. crimson2 says:
    @Wally

    even Ron Unz agrees that Stalin was about to attack

    “Even our fellow Nazi Ron Unz agrees with us!”

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1238. utu says:
    @j2

    I think everybody, including Jews, would be OK with the 3.5M Holocaust.

    I think everybody, including Jews, would be OK if Auschwitz death toll was reduced to 0.5M.

    The ‘everybody’ category does not include Wally and CODOH who persistently claim that not enough Jews were killed during the WWII.

    Not sure what numbers would make Ron Unz happy. Is he with Wally and his ilk?

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @j2
  1239. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > I see no debunking in your links.

    Please note that saying “I see no debunking in your links” is not an argument and something that could just as well be said to you.

    The gas vans have been documented:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/10/contemporary-german-documents-on.html

    The denier lies about the gas vans have been exposed:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/11/rebuttal-of-alvarez-on-gas-vans-why.html

    Any counterarguments?

    > Tell us how alleged diesel exhaust could kill people?

    All gas vans motors were gasoline, see the above link.

    > And at the Soviet Show Trials, the Soviets themselves said they were diesel

    They relied one someone without the first-hand knowledge of the motors. Those with such first-hand knowledged said they ran on gasoline.

    > Please show us the alleged humans of 34,000 Jews that are claimed to still be at Babi Yar ravine,

    The Babiy Yar massacre is documented:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/03/evidence-on-babi-yar-massacre-29-30.html

    And obviously nobody claims that the Jews are still there, so you lied:

    https://pure.knaw.nl/portal/en/publications/the-dispersal-and-oblivion-of-the-ashes-and-bones-of-babi-yar(92180b8d-7812-40b0-be11-7bc21798ddf4).html

    > Tell us specifically what is incorrect in your opinion about this:
    > The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”,

    Already shown to be a tissue of lies:

    https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/search/label/MGK%27s%20SPOM

  1240. @Otterboy

    Phew! For a moment I was worried that a rational commenter was going irredeemably over the top! But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on the Rothschilds and Freemasons because it only leads to “So what? What does that add up to?” Remember BTW that the Rothschilds’ wealth and influence only dates from about 1815 and most of the descendants have done more interesting high class high IQ things than investment banking and are far from having a hive mind.

    But please consider your 9/11 opinion in the light of
    1. What would be the reason for cooking up an engagement in Afghanistan (which has been notoriously bad for invaders) when the only rational objective would be to stir up conflict in the ME which would Balkanise the sources of danger to Israel?
    2. As previous Al Qaeda operations made 9/11 exactly what Osama bin Laden would think up or approve, plenty of money was available for what the highhjackers had to do, and nothing could have suited the anti American ObL better than getting America mired in Afghanistan, as the Soviet Union had been and America had been in Vietnam… why look beyond his motivation?
    3. If there was elaborately prearranged demolition how were the planes that struck the WTC so brilliantly flown that they hit at the very different levels where the collapses commenced?
    That’s for starters. If you seriously believe the technical nonsense by truthers on the www find a competent physicist to talk it through with.

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @Otterboy
    , @Erebus
  1241. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    For Anon [299] here is the easily found information on the role of Jewish Bolsheviks in the Russian tragedy of the 20th century: http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/371/bolshevism-jews/
    “The simultaneous triumph of the Jews in Russia and Palestine was indeed an extraordinary “coincidence”…
    This coincidence was reinforced by the fact that the theist Jews who triumphed in Israel in 1917, and especially in 1948 after the foundation of the State of Israel, came from the same region and social background – the Pale of Settlement in Western Russia – as the atheist Jews who triumphed in Moscow in 1917. Sometimes they even came from the same families.
    Thus Chaim Weitzmann, the first president of Israel, points out in his Autobiography that his brothers and sisters were all either Zionists or Bolsheviks. M. Heifetz also points to the coincidence in time between the October revolution and the Balfour declaration. “A part of the Jewish generation goes along the path of Herzl and Zhabotinsky. The other part, unable to withstand the temptation, fills up the band of Lenin and Trotsky and Stalin.”

    Indeed, the Russian revolution may be regarded as one branch of that general triumph of Jewish power which we observe in the twentieth century in both East and West, in both Russia and America and Israel.

    Thus Winston Churchill wrote: “It would almost seem as if the Gospel of Christ and the gospel of anti-Christ were designed to originate among the same people; and that this mystic and mysterious race had been chosen for the supreme manifestations, both of the Divine and the diabolical… From the days of ‘Spartacus’ Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany) and Emma Goldman (United States), this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. …

    Douglas Reed writes: “The Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party, which wielded the supreme power, contained 3 Russians (including Lenin) and 9 Jews. The next body in importance, the Central Committee of the Executive Commission (or secret police) comprised 42 Jews and 19 Russians, Letts, Georgians and others. The Council of People’s Commissars consisted of 17 Jews and five others. The Moscow Che-ka (secret police) was formed of 23 Jews and 13 others. Among the names of 556 high officials of the Bolshevik state officially published in 1918-1919 were 458 Jews and 108 others. Among the central committees of small, supposedly ‘Socialist’ or other non-Communist parties… were 55 Jews and 6 others.”

    Richard Pipes [a known Russophobe] admits: “Jews undeniably played in the Bolshevik Party and the early Soviet apparatus a role disproportionate to their share of the population. The number of Jews active in Communism in Russia and abroad was striking: in Hungary, for example, they furnished 95 percent of the leading figures in Bela Kun’s dictatorship. They also were disproportionately represented among Communists in Germany and Austria during the revolutionary upheavals there in 1918-23, and in the apparatus of the Communist International.”

    The London Times correspondent in Russia, Robert Wilton, reported: ”Taken according to numbers of population, the Jews represented one in ten; among the commissars that rule Bolshevik Russia they are nine in ten; if anything the proportion of Jews is still greater.”

    The Jews were especially dominant in the most feared and blood-thirsty part of the Bolshevik State apparatus, the Cheka, which, writes Brendon, “consisted of 250,000 officers (including 100,000 border guards), a remarkable adjunct to a State which was supposed to be withering away. In the first 6 years of Bolshevik rule it had executed at least 200,000. Moreover, the Cheka was empowered to act as ‘policeman, gaoler, investigator, prosecutor, judge and executioner’. It also employed barbaric forms of torture.

    So complete was the Jewish domination of Russia as a result of the revolution that it is a misnomer to speak about the “Russian” revolution; it should more accurately be called the Russian-Jewish revolution.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  1242. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    > I calculated the upper bound for the Auschwitz argument using Yad Vashem numbers. The result is the same as earlier. The upper bound for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 400,000.

    Actually, starting with the Piper data corrected for a higher number of the Hungarian transit Jews than Piper assumed, it’s about 900k (with the 1m total death toll).

    > As this number is much smaller than the official estimate 1.1M,

    I hope you understand that 1,1 refers to all deaths and not only to Jewish ones?

    > we can conclude that the official story is false.

    Well, it obviously isn’t. Corrections here and there, but basically true.

    > Consequently, 320,000 Hungarian Jews were transported out of Auschwitz, probably to Treblinka.

    I refer you to my previous comment. You simply make stuff up without having the first idea about the basic chronology.

    • Replies: @j2
  1243. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    There are also copious documents on people walking on the water and parting the Red Sea.

  1244. @FKA Max

    The emotional meeting was made possible by Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial’s comprehensive online database of Holocaust victims.

    Heartwarming story of how a list of names of those who perished in the Holocaust is being used to reunite Jews with their long-lost relatives.

    • LOL: Zumbuddi
  1245. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > In addition, see your silly Zionist ‘holocaust controversies’ shysters utterly demolished here:

    Not at all, only denial is demolished.

    > ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ slapped silly lies about their Hungarian Jews lies:

    Nope, Graf doesn’t explain where the 320,000 Hungarian Jews went.

    Moreover, Jürgen Graf is a proven liar:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/05/jurgen-grafs-lie-about-hungarian-jewish.html

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/busted-jurgen-graf-caught-lying-again.html

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/jrgen-graf-is-liar.html

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/he-sure-is.html

    > Questions for Holocaust Controversies to answer/debate here. :

    Actually there is no open debate at the CODOH Animal Farm (http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/02/codoh-forum-that-moderated-itself-to.html), where the low-IQ dicktator Jonnie “Hannover” Hargis, of the KL Vershiedene infamy, tries to cover for his extremely low intelligence and non-existent knowledge by employing hardcore censorship.

    > Carlo Mattogno demolishes HC’s Roberto Muehlenkamp & those like him on laughable ‘sardine pack’

    It is Mattogno who has been utterly demolished:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/07/mattogno-and-father-patrick-desbois-1.html

    > much, much more on the lies of ‘holocaust controversies’:

    Much, much more about the lies of CODOH:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/search?q=codoh

    • Replies: @Svigor
    , @Wally
  1246. annamaria says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    The Americans follow the Bolshevik dictum of criminalizing “anti-semitism.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism

    “The Council of People’s Commissars adopted a 1918 decree condemning all antisemitism and calling on the workers and peasants to combat it. …
    On 12 January 1931, Stalin gave the following answer to an inquiry on the subject of the Soviet attitude toward antisemitism from the Jewish News Agency in the United States: ” … In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.”

  1247. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    > to chip in critically to Unz’s own website with an anonymous handle.

    The posts that I sent under the non-Anon handle went directly into the aether, so how about you implore Unz to fix the site?

    > But I think your objections, put directly to Ron Unz, would be resolved decisively in his favour on the question of honesty and candour that you think you have plausibly raised

    Sure, let’s see him “resolve” them.

    > If you live near him in California

    I’ve never been near the US in my life.

    > The points made in the “Confronting Denial” tweet or post that you rely on were so slight it is ridiculous to bill them as a refutation.

    Actually they refuted the lies repeated by Unz, and merely saying otherwise without addressing the refutations does not constitute a counterargument.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1248. Hans says:

    Expert witness, Arnold Friedman, testified at the first attempt to jail Ernst Zundel that it was possible to tell which nationalities were being burned in the “ovens” by the color of the smoke and flames.

    Under cross-examination, he was forced to stop lying and admit he’d “heard stories:”

    Witness Indecisive: Lawyer Challenges Crematoria Theory

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/controversies/liars/AFriedman.html
    by Kirk Makin

    ERNST Zundel’s lawyer challenged the testimony of a Holocaust survivor yesterday, telling the man he couldn’t have seen concentration camp chimneys belch smoke and flames from exterminated Jews because crematoria don’t emit anything.

    “I suggest it is quite impossible for smoke to come from a crematoria from human beings,” said Doug Christie, whose client is charged with spreading false news. “What do you say about that, sir?”

    “Nothing,” Arnold Friedman, prisoner number B14515, initially replied. “If you’re talking of crematoria in Toronto and crematoria in Auschwitz, those are two different things. In Birkenau (part of Auschwitz complex), smoke came out of the chimney.”

    “I put it to you that you don’t really understand anything about crematoria, to say: ‘Aha, that is a crematorium,’ because that is quite wrong, sir,” Mr. Christie said.

    Many observers in the packed courtroom were left shaking their heads or fidgeting uncomfortably as Mr. Friedman, 56, then agreed that perhaps Jews were not being burnt in the chimneyed buildings.

    Over a two-day span, Mr. Friedman has testified repeatedly to seeing thousands of boys herded toward the crematoria, and of seeing trainloads of people unloaded near the ominous buildings.

    He told of how he and other internees even thought they could tell whether fat or skinny people, Ukrainians or Poles, were being cremated by looking at the color of the smoke.

    Mr. Friedman’s sudden indecision in the face of Mr. Christie’s forceful questioning touched off an almost-perceptible shockwave in the courtroom. “Couldn’t there have been other explanations (for the smoke and flames)?” Mr. Christie asked, pressing home his advantage.

    “Yes, there could have,” Mr. Friedman replied. “If I had listened to you at the time when I was listening to other people (in the camp), I might have listened to you. But at the time I listened to them.”

  1249. utu says:
    @Anon

    Hungarian Jews H-event should be well documented. We should know lists by name of all Jews on each train and when it left Hungary and when it arrived to its destination. Each train had a number and was tracked along its route through Hungarian, Slovak, Czech, Germany railways. Then from witnesses and interrogation of SS officers after the war we should know how many of each train were directed to gassings and how many were sent to work or to temporary housing like 15k Hungarian women who were housed in Birkenau and were later sent to Germany.

    Who did the most comprehensive research of the Hungarian H-event? So what is currently the official canonical number of Hungarian Jews killed?

    Yes, you are correct. Majdanek and Belzec were liberated by Soviets in August 1944. Hungarian Jews could not have been sent East!

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @j2
  1250. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    “Don’t give them a chance” is indeed your battle cry. — Why?

    The Jews are no saints by birth. The Soviet Jews have committed horrendous crimes against humanity in Russia. Churchill, Pipes, Solzhenitsyn, Rayfield and more were the honest witnesses to the horrors inflicted by the secret police where the Jews (many females among them) used the most barbaric kinds of torture against Russians. There were instances of the mass slaughter of Russians organized by Jewish commissars like Rozalia Zalkind: https://tarbaby.wordpress.com/2017/07/28/stalins-jewish-cabinet/

    Deborah Lipstadt is a dim-wit that needs to learn about the deeds of the Soviet Jews before lecturing the world on the “eternal victimhood” and “superior morality” of all Jews. The more Lipstadt et al try to obscure the honest historical research in the events of the WWII, the greater the attention to the crimes of Jewish Bolsheviks in Russia and to the ongoing criminal machinations of ziocons in the US and the EU.

  1251. Heros says:
    @utu

    “I think everybody, including Jews, would be OK with the 3.5M Holocaust.

    I think everybody, including Jews, would be OK if Auschwitz death toll was reduced to 0.5M.”

    Hold it right there, kimosabe. The issue not how many jews really died and how much jews suffered. Nor is it about which race suffered the most in all of these wars for Eretz Israel.

    The issue is over a century of jews trying to pin their kabalistic 6m of one group of white chrisitans or another, at any cost, and then finally getting away with it. They managed to set Germany up and pin all their own kabalistic sacrifices of the preceding century back onto the Germans, and then they used their new sacred holocaust religion as a bludgeon to shame all Christians. There have been trillions of dollars in reparations paid over decades to the holy 6million dead.

    If jews are willing to start fudging and accept less than their holy 6 million murdered jews, then how are they going to return all those reparations back for their fraud AND make good on all the misery and suffering caused by their lies?

    By my calculations, jews caused the murder of far more than 6 million Germans just after the war, when jews were blathering, kvetching and squeeling to the entire planet about their own “humanity” and “menschlichkeit”. How can jews possibly just make up for the last 100 years to Christians, let along the last 200?

  1252. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    crimson2, the real Nazis are in the Jewish State and in its protege the Kaganat of Nuland (former Ukraine): https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Israel-Selling-Arms-To-Neo-Nazi-Ukrainian-Militia-Case-Claims-20180710-0021.html
    “Volodymyr Borysovych Groysman, Yiddish: וואָלאָדימיר באָריסאָוויטש גרויסמאַן‎, has been the Prime Minister of Ukraine since 14 April 2016.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Groysman
    “Israel Selling Arms To Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Militia”
    “Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine:” https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727
    “Israel now arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine:” https://www.sott.net/article/390483-Israel-now-arming-neo-Nazis-in-Ukraine
    “US is Arming Neo-Nazis in Ukraine:” https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=x5Uf7aooxvE

  1253. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes, this is the number of Jews who were found in concentration camps liberated by the Allied.

    These camps were in Western Europe (Germany) and present day Poland. In addition to that there were 88,000 Jews in Poland, who had been hiding from Nazis, and some 640,000 Jews in Western countries occupied by Nazis who were not transported by Nazis. Additionally there were 75,000 Jews who legally were transported to Palestine, many during the war, and 110,000 who were transported illegally to Palestine, but mostly after the start of the war and 1946, and 900,000 had escaped mainly to the UK.

    Considering that Nazis had transported 1.12M from West and captured about 1.5M Jews from Western Poland, sum 2.6M, the number 0.41M sounds quite small. It is because 1.45M were transported to Operation Reinhard camps.

  1254. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    > For Anon [299] here is the easily found information on the role of Jewish Bolsheviks in the Russian tragedy of the 20th century:

    Any source relying on the hoaxer Wilton is not credible.

    > Indeed, the Russian revolution may be regarded as one branch of that general triumph of Jewish power which we observe in the twentieth century in both East and West, in both Russia and America and Israel.

    Not really, as the dictator was always non-Jewish, the Jews were always a small minority among the Bolsheviks even with the overrepresentation against the general population; and most crimes were ordered by non-Jews such as Stalin. Even when Jews like Yagoda did participate in crimes, they did it as puppets of non-Jews (and then mostly got purged themselves).

    > The Jews were especially dominant in the most feared and blood-thirsty part of the Bolshevik State apparatus, the Cheka,

    Not really. In fact in the early Cheka the Jewish % was lower than in the mid-1930s, when the Jewish % among the NKVD leadership rose to 30+% – but that’s overrepresentation, not domination.

  1255. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “> I calculated the upper bound for the Auschwitz argument using Yad Vashem numbers. The result is the same as earlier. The upper bound for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 400,000.
    Actually, starting with the Piper data corrected for a higher number of the Hungarian transit Jews than Piper assumed, it’s about 900k (with the 1m total death toll).”

    You are so ignorant on this topic that if I were you, I would simply shut up. The Jewish population of Hungary was around 444,000. There you have the populations:
    The American Jewish Year Book 1938-39 gives the following Jewish populations: Belgium (60,000), Bulgaria (48,565), Czechoslovakia (356,830), Danzig (10,448), Denmark (5,690), France (240,000), Germany (691,163), Greece (72,791), Hungary (444,567), Italy (57,425), Yugoslavia (68,405), Netherlands (156,817), Norway (1,359) and Luxemburg (2400). Austria is merged into Germany in these figures. These figures sum to 2.216 million. The figure for Germany after annexing Austria is given as 691,163, but it decreased much before 1941. Emigration of Jews form Germany and Austria was an intentional policy of Hitler and strongly encouraged by the Third Reich before 1941. I will use the figure 300,000 for Germany and Austria from the 1939 estimate of the American Jewish Year Book for 1948-49 given on Table 6 on the page 697. Thus, the estimate for Jews in these countries was 1.83 million in 1941.

    “> As this number is much smaller than the official estimate 1.1M,
    I hope you understand that 1,1 refers to all deaths and not only to Jewish ones?”

    I hope you realize how idiotic you sound. It has long ago been established that no other nationalities are even claimed to have been killed as unregistered arrivals, only Jews make this claim of Jews. The death toll of registered inmates of Auschwitz-Birkenau is about 120,000, or which half are Jews. You can safely assume that i understand everything here, we should worry about if you understand anything at all. If 1.1M died in Auschwitz, then it implies that 1M Jews died in Auschwitz.

    “> we can conclude that the official story is false.
    Well, it obviously isn’t. Corrections here and there, but basically true.”

    No, it is fundamentally false. You can see it, everybody can see it. Jewish researchers, who claim to have studied the topic for years, know it well. Only they lie.

    “> Consequently, 320,000 Hungarian Jews were transported out of Auschwitz, probably to Treblinka.
    I refer you to my previous comment. You simply make stuff up without having the first idea about the basic chronology.”
    Soviets were in Treblinka but what makes you think the Jews could not be transported to Treblinka? Obviously you do not consider all possibilities, such as that they were handed to Soviets.
    These Jews could have been killed, freed, passed to Soviets, taken to whatever place. You, as an obvious non-expert, asked a question from someone who has studied the topic, why do you then criticize the answer. If you think you know the answer, why do you ask?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1256. Svigor says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Jews being considered to be something like pestilence, or rats who destroy high culture through their intrinsic & unalterable pervy rottenness.

    Yeah but like, where’s the lie tho?

  1257. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    > then how are they going to return all those reparations back for their fraud AND make good on all the misery and suffering caused by their lies?

    I hope you understand that reparations were paid proportionally to the number of the survivors, not the dead.

    The more there are survivors, the higher the reparations.

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @annamaria
  1258. Svigor says:
    @Anon

    Nope, Graf doesn’t explain where the 320,000 Hungarian Jews went.

    Imagine trying to win a murder case against Jamal with arguments like this. “But your honor, the defense hasn’t explained where the deceased went.” Judge: “you mean you don’t even have proof of death?” *Bang!* “Case dismissed!”

    Actually there is no open debate at the CODOH Animal Farm (http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/02/codoh-forum-that-moderated-itself-to.html), where the low-IQ dicktator Jonnie “Hannover” Hargis, of the KL Vershiedene infamy, tries to cover for his extremely low intelligence and non-existent knowledge by employing hardcore censorship.

    This is on Jews, who shut down discussion wherever they find it. It’s the Jews’ fault we can’t have adult conversations about this topic (inter alia).

    • Replies: @Anon
  1259. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    It is unlikely there are lists of names, but the lists of trains with the dates and with the numbers of persons in each train exist, I’ve given the link above.

    The currently accepted numbers (based on the Glaser list) are from 320k to 330k Jews gassed, the rest used for labor.

  1260. Heros says:
    @Otterboy

    I had given up on you responding and had considered making a snarky response. I am glad I waited.

    I have read and watched many Gilad Atzmon pieces. To be honest, I find his thick accent off putting and difficult to follow, so I prefer other truther jews like Brother Nathaniel or James Perloff.

    Ron Unz went into child sacrifice and bloodletting by jews in this AP article:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/

    If you want to know why Christians are so disgusted with jews and their lies, you should read it, and the linked book by Toaff. There is no doubt that historically jews have been bloodletting Christian children in kaballistic re-enactments of the Crucifixion of Christ.

    One very important question is if it still is going on today. I am convinced that it is, and have provided links supporting my contention in various other AP threads. I think a group of Ashkenazi families clustered around the Rothschild family have been using these kabbalistic rituals to acquire complete control of their jew and goyim agents through blackmail. I think many jews, if not the vast majority, know that this is going on and are assisting in the continual cover up and deception.

    In any case, whether you accept that jews are murdering the children of Christians, possibly even promoting the abortion of hundreds of millions of them, is really just the icing on the matza bread, so to speak. The genocide of Palestine, the framing of Germany for the fake holocaust, the 9/11 false flag and ensuing Patriot act, and even the ever increasing clamp down on free speech should be enough to make it clear that something is very deeply wrong with these judaics.

    My question to you would be, as a jew, do you have any special insight or advice for us Christians and other goyim on how we should deal with jews who want to see us and our families not only obliterated from the face of the earth, but also removed from all of history?

    • Replies: @Otterboy
    , @crimson2
  1261. utu says:
    @Heros

    If number 6M would be reduced to 3.5M no money would be returned. Just the effective cost of Jewish life would go up. If Germany paid, say, $100B then the de facto cost for one Jewish life would increase from $16,666 to $28,571.

    You are unhinged. The Jews did a real job on you, Mr. Nutcase.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Heros
  1262. Heros says:
    @utu

    Wally is certainly better than you when it comes to ad hominems, insults and profanity.

  1263. j2 says:
    @utu

    “I think everybody, including Jews, would be OK with the 3.5M Holocaust.
    I think everybody, including Jews, would be OK if Auschwitz death toll was reduced to 0.5M.”

    It would be good if so. As said, from population figures the death toll is 4.5M and Auschwitz death toll has the upper bound 400,000, or 500,000. I strongly suspect that the Soviet figure for their 1940 Jewish population is 1M too high and actual the death toll is 3.5M. In any case the figure is in millions. Possibly one could reduce it to 2-2.5M, but I do not know any compelling arguments why it should be so low. Possible but not likely.

    I personally have no whatsoever interest in this topic and what the figure should be. Finns did not kill any Jews and have no guilt feelings, and we are not Aryans or white supremacists. I just added numbers as this was a conspiracy theory and I checked if any conspiracy theories are true. As a mathematician I would be happy if addition and subtraction would not break down in the Holocaust case, as well as a physicist I would be happy if normal laws of physics would hold in the 911 case. But there seem to be people, who insist that the laws of arithmetics are broken because they have witnesses who say so, and that laws of physics do not hold because it was al Quaeda.

    Wally and those have some other agenda, it is not mine.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1264. @Anon

    I see..so the fact that Putin who served as a KGB officer and as prime minister and president of Russia and would have had access to any files he chooses about the number of Jews in the first Soviet government is irrlevant, because he is not an “academic historian”?

    Perhaps you would prefer the report from US Intelligence officer Captain Montgomery Schuyler, who cabled his report documenting that ” the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled but Russians Jews of the greasiest type..”

    Hitler was completely right about you clowns when he wrote :

    “The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn’t help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about.

    Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn’t help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn’t remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

    Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

    I didn’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.
    ____________________________________

    I am certain everyone on this thread will agree that this describes you perfectly.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Anon
  1265. @Heros

    Yes. Ordinary Jews are perhaps open to rethinking what happened in WW2, although even here there is a very strong emotional attachment. However, Organized Jewry will NEVER comprise on this. Anything less than the accepted story (gas chambers, 6M, etc.) threatens their position.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Colin Wright
  1266. @Anon

    Hhhahaa!! This comment should be bronzed. Apparently, the mean wicked Nazi’s solved the problem of human bodies being composed mostly of water by having mechanical Jew dryers.

    The same Germans who invented the jet engine and hundreds of other advances in the sciences and mechanics further solved the problem of making the bones and teeth disappear by beating them….. WITH A WOODEN MALLET!!

    Hahaha!!! Is there no limit to the completely nutty whoppers you Holocaustians will swallow???

  1267. @JackOH

    peterAUS, thanks. I think it’s worth asking whether the blackening of WWII-era Germans is acting as psychological cover for the Allies’ own misdeeds of that time

    Maybe. However, it is also interesting that British claims during WWI that the Germans were rendering their own dead to create soap turned into claims during WWII that the Germans were rendering dead Jews into soap and making lampshades as well.

    Wartime propaganda seems to have a life of its own.

  1268. Heros says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    9/11 is far easier to debunk than the holohoax because jews like you have not yet figured out how make discussion of it illegal and racist. I don’t think anyone has been called a nazi yet by the wizzer of oz yet having observed the dancing israelis or building 7 collapsing with free fall acceleration.

    What we do observe is how much more jewish spittle gets flung whenever people question the kosher narrative. Now as the SS Judaica takes on water and starts to capsize, jews are going berzerk. You can sense it very strongly on this thread. Hysterical jews flinging their spittle and viciously slandering and attacking any goyim impertinent enough to exposed one of the millions of jewish lies told over the last 3000 years.

    Crimson2 really is the poster child for this. Every comment he uses jew dagger-in-the-back words like nazi, cesspool, scum and every other derogatory jewish word used against Christians in their Talmud. Of course you, wizzer, are also one of these kvetching jews, along with jamesAUS, iffen, utu and others. With each new AP article that Ron Unu writes, the invective becomes more fierce and unhinged.

    But we all know that jews are unhinged, especially their Rabbis. Check out this article for a small taste:

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbe8bp/the-child-rape-assembly-line-0000141-v20n11

    “Rabbi Nuchem Rosenberg—who is 63 with a long, graying beard—recently sat down with me to explain what he described as a “child-rape assembly line” among sects of fundamentalist Jews. He cleared his throat. “I’m going to be graphic,” he said.

    On a visit to Jerusalem in 2005, Rabbi Rosenberg entered into a mikvah in one of the holiest neighborhoods in the city, Mea She’arim. “I opened a door that entered into a schvitz,” he told me. “Vapors everywhere, I can barely see. My eyes adjust, and I see an old man, my age, long white beard, a holy-looking man, sitting in the vapors. On his lap, facing away from him, is a boy, maybe seven years old. And the old man is having anal sex with this boy.”

    Rabbi Rosenberg paused, gathered himself, and went on: “This boy was speared on the man like an animal, like a pig, and the boy was saying nothing. But on his face—fear. The old man [looked at me] without any fear, as if this was common practice. He didn’t stop. I was so angry, I confronted him. He removed the boy from his penis, and I took the boy aside.”

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1269. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    The trick was to have the bodies dry out as they descended in the mechanized crematory flow equipment towards the actual flames which would start them burning.

    Of course, every chef worth his salt knows that a turkey exposed to ten minutes of sunlight and slight breeze before entering the oven – burns like paper. Lol!

    All joking aside, your “stuffing the chimney with bodies” idea is inefficient. The chimney would have to be very long, expanded to retain optimal air-flow, and any heat savings would have been more than offset by the “mechanized crematory flow equipment”.

  1270. Heros says:
    @Anon

    “The more there are survivors, the higher the reparations.”

    How is it that jews continue to think that they are more intelligent than everyone else when they cannot help themselves from making idiotic statements like this one?

    What happens now that we know that no one was gassed and the only deaths in the labor camps were all due to typical jewish criminal behavior and deliberate allied bombing of transport facilities?

    How is it that one group, like yours, who claim to be gods chosen people, can survive a hoax that they perpetrated on another group of people, and then extort reparations from their victims and expect no harm to come their way from it?

    Why don’t you just look at the headlines that Ron Unz added to the article above? Jews have been crying wolf again and again about a 6 million holocaust, for at least a century before they finally got the one that they could fake and blame on someone else. Of course, they also had to wait for Jewish Power to transform the west into ZOG.

    The “holocaust” is a fraud. Jews knew that they would need another World War with millions of dead goyim to cover up their planned 6 million dead blood sacrifice switcheroo . That is why they got their crypto-jew three stooges, Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin, to get their genocidal wars started in ’39 and again in ’41. After getting millions of germans killed in their holy war against Christians, the jews covered up all their bloody tracks with further crimes like the Rheinweisenlager, the Hellstorm, and the Nuremburg “trials”.

    So now as one brave jew, Ron Unz, not only frames the question in a non-kosher manner, but also allows open comments on it, jews like you are flinging the spittle in a rage of blood lust.

    You cannot teach a leopard to loose his spots, a tiger to loose his stripes, or a jew to treat goyim in an honest manner.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1271. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anything less than the accepted story (gas chambers, 6M, etc.) threatens their position.

    Worse. Their own story keeps evolving in order to grab more “reparations” from other countries. Ask the Poles. I’ve also heard about some Balkan countries returning “stolen Jewish property” just recently. They won’t stop unless we stop them.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1272. Heros says:
    @utu

    As I said already, your insults and ad hominems are far worse than Wally’s.

    I wrote:

    “If jews are willing to start fudging and accept less than their holy 6 million murdered jews, then how are they going to return all those reparations back for their fraud AND make good on all the misery and suffering caused by their lies?

    It would appear, that as a jew, you cannot answer a question directly or think rationally. If jews have been throwing people in jail for merely stating that there wasn’t 6 million gassed and dead jews, and then jews come out and say, oops, it was half of that, what about all the suffering?

    It is clear to everyone reading this blog that greedy jews would come up with some talmudic excuse to keep all the reparations they had defrauded from the goyim.

    But how can they undo all the suffering and anguish of those who were murdered or thrown in jail for the heresy of 6 million dead jew denial? Actually, never mind, you already confirmed it for me with your non-answer. The suffering of goyim is irrelevant to the jews like you.

  1273. j2 says:
    @utu

    “Yes, you are correct. Majdanek and Belzec were liberated by Soviets in August 1944. Hungarian Jews could not have been sent East!”

    Utu, I did not make the suggestion that they were sent east, probably to Treblinka, by ignorance. I ask you to reconsider.

    Why Hitler wanted to move Jews anywhere? He collected them from all occupied countries and sent them east, but he was not going to settle them to Eastern Europe. Jews were supposed to be pushed out of Europe. Had he been satisfied with Eastern Europe, Jews would have been settled to Lublin area. The idea that Hitler wanted to move Jews to Madagascar is shown wrong by only thinking that as Jews did not want to go to Madagascar, Hitler would have had to make a prison island, build walls like around Gaza. Then he could never have made a peace with the USA run by Masons and the Jewish Lobby. The exactly only place where Hitler could have wanted to place the Jews was where their leaders wanted them to go, Palestine. Hitler did understand that the leaders did not themselves intend to move to Israel, but European Jews were needed there to found Israel.

    Think about this a few times and then ask, what happened to Jews, who passed Operation Reinhard camps, assuming that they were not all killed. What if they were liquidated, turned to cash: robbed of everything and left to marschlands where Zionists were going to take care of them, putting them for the time being to the protection of Uncle Stalin. This is possible, assuming that the whole transport of the Jews to the east was a project done for Zionists, who helped Hitler to power, and the real cause of the war, as well as the real cause of the previous war. I think like this.

    Then I ask what would Hitler do with 320,000 Hungarian Jews, whom he is not going to use for work. Kill them? Why to transport them to Auschwitz for that purpose? No, hand them over to Zionists, who would take them to the east to Uncle Stalin’s protection for as long as Israel could take them. What is the straightest way to east? It could be through Belzec or Treblinka. It does not matter that Germans did not any more have a camp there, it does not matter that they did not control the area. The only think that matters is that Jews were to be moved east and at a later time to Israel.

    I ask you to think about the hair. Germans saved Jewish hair. For what purpose? Not for submarine crew carpets and socks, nor for wigs or jewelry. The only reason I can think for saving hair is that “not a hair from your head will fall on the ground”. That is from the end of the time prophesies, exodus to Israel, and for sure Masons and their creation, Zionists, were messianic.

    I am absolutely sure that Anonymous could not understand this, but I ask you, utu, to think about the sick logic in all this.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Alden
    , @utu
  1274. Otterboy says:
    @Anonymous

    A couple of quick examples
    I was delivering a piece of furniture to a flat owned by a local jew. This flat was definitely illegal, tiny and in a disgusting state (they are the big slum landlords here in London). I wouldn’t have let a rat live there. So I said something like “someone will actually rent this shithole? “. His reply was “yeah, just some stupid Fucking goy. What do you care?”

    When the big trouble in South Africa was in full swing (before Mandela was released) a senior rabbi said to me “can you believe all this fuss? What’s the matter with people? Isn’t it obvious that these blacks are meant to be our slaves?”

    We were taught never to trust the goyim. We can pretend to be their friends but only to get some advantage. We were superior to them and our only contact should be based on screwing them one way or another, which was absolutely fine. As long as we didn’t do it to another jew.

    What they say amongst themselves is very different to what they say in public. Very very different. Not every Jew was like this but this was prevalent amongst the teachers, rabbis and businessmen I grew up with

    • Replies: @Heros
  1275. @utu

    ‘Do you think that Wally is better?’

    It would be nice if Wally went away.

  1276. phil says:
    @Anon

    Speaking of hand-waiving, you have not made a serious effort to analyze Comment #1146.

    It is indeed unfortunate that we do not have records of all the movements inside the USSR. However, there are documents referring to regular movements of thousands of Jews into the Western USSR (Holocaust Handbooks: Sobibor, page 358; Belzac, p.103 ff).

    • Replies: @Anon
  1277. @j2

    ‘Why Hitler wanted to move Jews anywhere?

    The author of Bloodlands proposed an interesting theory.

    Communist tyrannies aside, states simply do not permit the wholesale slaughter of their own subjects. It violates the most basic justification for the state’s existence; to ensure order and public safety. Here, Kristallnacht provides a telling example. In spite of five years of relentless propaganda aimed at Jews, the action was decidedly unpopular. The German people deeply, viscerally disapproved of the state sponsoring violence and destruction within its own cities — whatever the target.,

    You can think of the theory what you will — but it’s a fact that Jews were never murdered wholesale in functioning states, but only in those the Germans and their allies had effectively dismantled. Jews were not murdered on a genocidal scale in France et al, or even in Germany itself — they were almost invariably sent to someplace where the state was no longer in being — usually Poland — to be killed. And of course they were murdered wholesale in those parts of the Soviet Union that had been overrun.

    It’s worth thinking about. Were the Hungarian Jews murdered in Hungary? No; the Hungarian state was still in being. They were shipped out first; then murdered.

    The most striking illustration of this principle is Romania. Now, in those formerly Romanian lands she reoccupied after the invasion of Russia — Bessarabia et al — the Romanians carried out a genocide that surpassed that of the Germans in sheer horror, if not organization. But Jews in Romania proper weren’t touched. They were subjected to discriminatory laws, etc — but most of them in fact survived the war.

    One can argue with the theory itself, but the data clearly supports it. Jews were generally murdered only where the state had ceased to function. Hence the motive to send them ‘east.’ ‘East’ is where stateless regions had come into being where Jews could be murdered.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
    , @j2
  1278. phil says:
    @Anon

    Even if you want to claim that they all WERE buried there (but the remains are no longer there), there would be evidence of massive ground disturbances. Neither standard excavations nor ground radar have shown that. And, of course, you have no evidence of what supposedly happened to the remains.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1279. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    That would be utu, someone who I have simply slapped silly over his laughable, scientifically impossible religious belief in ‘Nazi gas chambers’.

    Seeing is believing, took a look and laugh: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany
    comment 429:

    Ouch!!

    And Colin Wright? Of course you want me to go away, I have utterly demolished everything you have posted here. The posts are here for everyone to see.

    Hurts don’t it? LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

  1280. Otterboy says:
    @Heros

    I’m no longer a Jew so I can’t offer you any special insight or advice

    I’m also not sure that the Jews want to see you all destroyed and removed from history. You may have your own reasons to believe that and you may have researched some evidence about that but it’s not anything I’m familiar with or know anything about

    There is without a doubt organised Jewish power which works to extract and exploit as much as possible for the benefit of that group. Any criticism is silenced by accusations of antisemitism and the holocaust is also weaponised

    But how or why would it be in their interests to kill all the Christians? This is not a concept I can believe or get my head around. I can understand why they want to flatten and destroy certain countries in the middle east (hence 911) but not the worldwide Christian population. In fact you could argue that the evangelical Christians in the USA are the major group which supports Israel. That idea doesn’t make any sense to me

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1281. @Anonymous

    ‘Worse. Their own story keeps evolving in order to grab more “reparations” from other countries. Ask the Poles. I’ve also heard about some Balkan countries returning “stolen Jewish property” just recently. They won’t stop unless we stop them.’

    Why should they stop? Many or most people will demand unreasonable payouts from insurance companies if they think there’s a chance they’ll get them. Do Third-World debtor states hesitate to take loans they know it’s highly unlikely they’ll repay?

    I don’t think organized Jewry is being especially larcenous. It’s a matter of everyone else letting them get away with it.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  1282. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Haha, you’d like that, wouldn’t you?

  1283. Heros says:
    @Otterboy

    A lot of the “humor” being spewed out of hollywood is actually secret jokes between jews about goy schmucks. Blazing Saddles was a classic, but any of these modern sit coms where white males are always idiots also fills the bill. Of course all of Silverstien’s or Loius CK’s “humor” fits this bill.

    When jews get goys laughing at jokes that jews make about how stupid goys are, then jews find that double funny.

    Would you agree with this assessment?

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1284. phil says:
    @Anon

    (Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 1997 for claim that the remains were still there at Treblinka.)

    You have in no way accounted for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1285. Heros says:
    @Colin Wright

    Two jews talking about how great it would be if goyim couldn’t say a word. Have you two already started counting your shicksa slave girls for when the third temple is completed?

    Human and rat DNA found in burgers, according to lab report

    https://wgntv.com/2016/05/11/human-and-rat-dna-found-in-burgers-according-to-lab-report/

  1286. @Beefcake the Mighty

    ‘Yes. Ordinary Jews are perhaps open to rethinking what happened in WW2, although even here there is a very strong emotional attachment. However, Organized Jewry will NEVER comprise on this. Anything less than the accepted story (gas chambers, 6M, etc.) threatens their position.’

    I think what Gilad Atzmon says gets to the heart of the matter. Historical events are subject to discussion, alternative interpretations, eventual revision (gasp) of the consensus, etc.

    The Holocaust has ceased to be a historical event, but has become a religious truth. There’s a dogma, and to question it in any way is quite literally heresy. That describes what happens.

    But the converse applies as well. Holocaust ‘Revisionists’ don’t stop with suggesting that perhaps the death toll was more like four million than six million, that Auschwitz itself may not have been primarily an extermination camp, that Hitler’s relationship to the whole operation is uncertain.

    No…they basically deny it happened at all. They will concede only a few hundred thousand deaths from typhus — perhaps some poor working conditions. A deliberate attempt at extermination? No. Right out.

    In their way, they too are treating ‘the Holocaust’ as a religious truth. Only they wish to deny it. If the Holocaust is the Catholic Church, they’re the fanatical Protestants. No Pope, no saints, no transformation of the Eucharist.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @peterAUS
    , @Wally
  1287. @Anon

    The trick was to have the bodies dry out as they descended in the mechanized crematory flow equipment towards the actual flames which would start them burning. It clearly makes good sense as a simple conceptual solution to the humans-are-water problem.

    Are you some sort of Nazi designing equipment for the endlosung?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1288. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Anon[299] claims, in defense of crimes committed by Jewish Bolsheviks, that the Jewish Bolsheviks were the innocent and obedient puppets of “non-Jews.”
    Well, here are just three samples (out of the the maltitude) of the highly pro-active Jewish perpetrators of mass murders in Russia:
    1. Naftaly Frenkel: https://tarbaby.wordpress.com/2017/07/22/gulags-frenkels-efficiency-system/
    “Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag. One of Frenkel’s innovations in the labor camps is the “you-eat-as-you-work” system or the “nourishment scale”. This system resulted in a high death toll in the camps.
    Frenkel’s labor camp reforms: Getting rid of prisoners after 3 months as prisoners were most productive only in the first 3 months. After this, they were too weak. This was done by killing the last person to join the line at work at a work detail. This person was called a laggard and taken out and shot. These reforms pleased Stalin greatly as it made the camps more “efficient”.
    2. Zemplyachka: https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rozaliia_Zemliachka
    “Rozaliia Zalkind (20 March 1876—21 January 1947) better known as Rozaliia Zemliachka was a mass murderer and war-criminal. She is best known for her part in the Red Army’s bloody ethnic cleansing crimes in the Crimea. Biographers describe her as “the hardest of the hard Bolshevichki”… It was with the Jewish Béla Kun whom Zemliachka carried out her most infamous atrocities. After the defeat of Pyotr Wrangel, commander of the White Russians in the Crimea and his evacuation, the Communists under Kun and Zemliachka began a brutal Chekist genocide campaign. Up to 150,000 prisoners of war and civilian refugees were butchered; including 50,000 officers.[3] The means were sadistic, Zemliachka had them tied in pairs to planks and burned alive in furnaces, or drowned in barges that she sank offshore.”
    — Anon [299], are you still a believer in the eternal purity of Jewish victimhood and superior morality?
    3. “Kaganovich personally oversaw grain confiscations during Holodomor. Similar policies also inflicted enormous suffering on the Soviet Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan, the Kuban region, Crimea, the lower Volga region, and other parts of the Soviet Union. As an emissary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, Kaganovich traveled to Ukraine, the central regions of the USSR, the Northern Caucasus, and Siberia demanding the acceleration of collectivization and repressions against the Kulaks, who were generally blamed for the slow progress of collectivization. …
    “In June of 1933, at the height of the Holodomor, 28,000 men, women and children in Ukraine were dying of starvation each day. http://holodomorct.org
    “Historians insist that the number of victims of the Holodomor in Ukraine is at least 7 million people..”
    On January 13th, 2010 Kiev Appellate Court posthumously found Kaganovich [and others] guilty of genocide against Ukrainians during the catastrophic Holodomor famine.[4] http://real-life-villains.wikia.com/wiki/Lazar_Kaganovich
    — Add to the Holodomor numbers the number of mass murders conducted by Jewish Bolsheviks in the concentrations camps in Russia after the terrorist revolution of 2018, plus the mass murders conducted in the Middle East in the name of Eretz Israel (see the criminal Yinon plan) and the world domination (see the ziocon PNAC), and the holo-biz stands naked with its ridiculous claims of eternal victimhood and superior morality.

  1289. Otterboy says:
    @utu

    Wally is quite full-on. My only criticism is his constant sarcasm and snarky comments

    Having said that, in general he’s not abusive (obsessive yes, abusive no) and I personally respect everyone’s right to free speech and to make any point they want as long as there’s no ad-hominem slander and abuse. That just brings out the worst in people, including me. And any strong points and arguments made will not be considered by the other side who will just dig in their heels.

    So in general I have no problem with Wally

  1290. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Jews were not murdered on a genocidal scale in France et al, or even in Germany itself — they were almost invariably sent to someplace where the state was no longer in being — usually Poland — to be killed. And of course they were murdered wholesale in those parts of the Soviet Union that had been overrun.”
    LOL

    Except that you have no proof whatsoever that that occurred. None. It’s truly baseless

    Everyone, Colin Wright has been asked repeatedly to post proof, but has failed miserably
    He is merely reciting the mandated & very profitable Zionist propaganda.
    again:

    Per their alleged ‘Holocaust by bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

  1291. @Anon

    I won’t tally over angels-on-a-pinhead trivia fit for a breakout at the refectory table but I am tending to think Ron has jumped in too quick.

    Maybe I have missed his detail or careful qualification but I have now found, via http://www.holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com – founded according to The Guardian by Dr Nicholas Terry of Exeter University – the detail of Oskar Gröning’s extraordinary account to Der Spiegel (Online) before he was the victim, at 93 of a shameful want of prosecution judgment and commonsense. While his numbers for Jews killed aren’t right he is credible.

    While checking on that website by Googling I found http://www.deathcamps.org/arc
    and then….. I stumbled across a still unanswered question….

    I am a bit puzzled to find on that other (apparently rival) anti-denial website http://www.deathcamps.org the following;

    ARC Central Page
    http://www.DeathCamps.org

    The Genuine ARC website

    http://www.Deathcamps.Org

    Barred indefinitely!

    Sergey Romanov and Nick Terry

    The ARC team has unanimously agreed to bar indefinitely, the following individuals: Sergey Romanov and Nick Terry

    We will not publish the details surrounding their banning, yet suffice to say they are not welcome here at http://www.Deathcamps.org, nor at any of our associate organizations. Due to their activities they have also been barred from any access to the ARC libraries, photo archives, and all electronic resources maintained by the ARC team.

    ARC maintains NO association or contact with these individuals, and while we appreciate the thousands of email reports we’ve received regarding their unsavory actions we must ask that you direct this information to the appropriate authorities.

    Thank you

    -ARC

    © ARC http://www.deathcamps.org September 30, 2002 – 2010

    Domain Registration & Official Copyright Information can be validated at the WHOIS website.

    Beware of counterfeit ARC websites with hyphenated URL’s. and avoid controversial hate blogs whenever possible.

    For a broader study of the Holocaust please visit: http://www.HolocaustResearchProject.org

    *** *** *** ***

    Maybe someone can explain that hissy fit. But let’s move on regardless.

    *** *** *** ***

    I think Wally should give up his obsession with the 6,000,000. And I’ld like to think Ron wouldn’t give him encouragement.

    Sure the numbers may only be that of a failed genocide but a prewar Jewish population which was a small fraction of the Slavs or Aryans could reasonably be allowed to cry Nakba if 700,000 expelled Palestinians could. And the people from the land of Goethe and Beethoven did it – like Anglos with great music and sentiment whom we thought were of the Enlightenment. And, again, it does seem that there were those gas chambers specially to greet new arrivals at Birkenau (NB Birkenau).

    In short…. Ron, I hope you are still about: I am just about back to the official version that you have tentatively decided is false. Your reasoning powers are supreme but, if you pin base your opinions on your instincts about Nicholas Kollerstrom I beg to differ – though I leave myself the wiggle room of a more thorough listening to him some time. In the meantime I prefer the denial debunkers (loc.cit. supra).

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  1292. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Tax exempt cash taken in by USHMM, aka: ‘Holocau$t’ Theme Park, for fiscal year 2016 which supports huge salaries for Jews only, which most of the remaining money goes to Jews & Zionist organizations:

    $151,826,695.00
    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf
    US taxpayers money to the USHMM in the 2017 budget:
    56,999,500.00
    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    There are over 100 ‘holocaust’ oriented ‘museums’ / indoctrination centers throughout the US alone, they all receive US taxpayer funding.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1293. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    “The more there are survivors, the higher the reparations.”
    1. That should be the claim No 1 by the victims of Nakba.
    2. This is why you and the likes are afraid — no, you and the likes viciously hate — the honest academic research in the WWII as related to the holo-biz numbers. The discoveries endanger your larcenous tribal pocket.

  1294. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    No grandfather bequeathed me the patent but some Jewish lawyer suckered him by not telling him that the patent would expire in 12 years. The lawyer’s nephew made a very nice business of it and his son sails a big boat off Eilat.

  1295. @j2

    ‘It would be good if so. As said, from population figures the death toll is 4.5M and Auschwitz death toll has the upper bound 400,000, or 500,000. I strongly suspect that the Soviet figure for their 1940 Jewish population is 1M too high and actual the death toll is 3.5M…’

    One thing that will screw up any attempt at statistical precision is ethnic ambiguity. People on the fringes will tend to adopt whatever ethnic identity they find most pleasing to themselves; usually the one that is to their advantage. If the Jews are all being killed, it would definitely be to your advantage to stop being Jewish if at all possible. So one Jew will vanish from the count; it’s not knowable if he was killed. He may reappear after the war; but maybe he got out of Europe entirely. Maybe being Jewish wasn’t that important to him in the first place and how he finds it convenient to not be Jewish.

    Then too, the death toll among everybody in those years was sky-high. Something like one out of every ten gentile Poles died. At a guess, the toll among gentile Balts, Belorussians, and Ukrainians was similar or even higher. So how can we allot Jewish deaths between those who would have died anyway just by virtue of where they were and those who died because they were Jews?

  1296. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art

    Don’t worry Art. No one is assessing your intelligence or literacy. UR will remain a safe and kindly place for fools.

  1297. It should be very clear that all the back and forth here is a distraction from the big questions:

    What caused WWI and WWII

    Are we due for another one around 2025?

  1298. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “…they basically deny it happened at all.”
    — This is a slander, Colin Wright.
    When the highly qualified engineers, chemists, and historians show the holes in the holo-biz numbers and models, these highly qualified engineers, chemists, and historians do not “deny it happened at all” — they do the honest statements supported by the expertise. The statements are interpreted by the tribalists as the signs of mortal danger since the holo-biz has been making money for the Jews and protecting the apartheid Jewish State.
    “There are over 100 ‘holocaust’ oriented ‘museums’ / indoctrination centers throughout the US alone, they all receive US taxpayer funding.”
    Why don’t look at the history of Bolshevism in Russia to get some balanced view on Jewish people?

  1299. cassandra says:
    @Wally

    LENGHTY, select ‘more’ if necesssary.

    LOL. From the pot calling the kettle black! Thank you for the humor in this unsolicited advice.

    Regarding Wikipedia or Gerstein, you also seem to have missed my qualifier “the numbers are more likely to be inflated than not for dramatic impact.” Nevertheless, just because a source might be wrong doesn’t mean it necessarily is.

    You do make my point, on which we’d agree, that the integrity of holocaust records have been so polluted by propaganda that a full-blown examination of source material is necessary almost in every case to assess the simplest assertions.

    A debate between experts would profitably resolve many issues, but proponents of Holocaust orthodoxy who are willing to appear in a public form (Lipstadt or Shermer come to mind) present arguments so fraught with logical fallacies that they do nothing for their views but befog them, thus reducing trust in what they say even further.

  1300. @Anon

    Not really, as the dictator was always non-Jewish, the Jews were always a small minority among the Bolsheviks even with the overrepresentation against the general population; and most crimes were ordered by non-Jews such as Stalin. Even when Jews like Yagoda did participate in crimes, they did it as puppets of non-Jews (and then mostly got purged themselves).

    Well, it seems we can do without puppets like that.

  1301. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Notice that anon does not dare to try and tell us what is in his links which debunks anything. Why?
    Here’s examples of ‘why’.

    – It’s claimed that ca 1,250,00 Jews were murdered and buried at Auschwitz, Jew ‘historians’ claim the alleged remans are still there, the offical$ at Auschwitz claim the alleged remains are still there, but in fact they do not exist. Oops!

    – In anon’s ‘holocaust controversies’ link we see this excavator, but the paid Zionists at ‘holocaust controversies’ don’t want anyone to see this:
    photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg.It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
    Does anyone see any “corpses”? LOL

    – On their completely discredited “documents”, they also post the non-controversial ‘vergassungskeller’ document which has been utterly debunked:
    See my comment 1057, it’s not even close. Quick example:
    The Unreliability of Documents in Jean-Claude Pressac’s Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, by Carlos Whitlock Porter: https://codoh.com/library/document/961/?lang=en

    – The shysters at ‘holocaust controversies’ ignore this, from comment 866.

    The facts about the absurd ‘holocaust’ cremation claims from the interrogations of Topf engineers by the Soviet SMERSH between 1946 and 1948, as were published by Gerald Fleming

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11893&p=89023&hilit=prufer+38#p89023

    Q: “How many bodies were cremated per hour at Auschwitz?”

    A: Prüfer (builder of the crematorium) responded:
    “In a crematory with 5 ovens and 15 muffles, fifteen bodies were cremated.”

    This means an average cremation time of one hour per body per muffle and indicates that the theoretical maximum capacity of Crematory IV (and each of the ovens of Crematory V as well) in a 24 hour period was 192 bodies.

    At his interrogation on 19th March 1946 Prüfer elaborated as follows:[28]

    “I have mentioned the enormous load to which the overtaxed ovens were subjected. I told Chief Engineer Sander I was worried about whether the ovens could withstand the excessive load. In my presence, two bodies were placed in one muffle, instead of a single body, and the ovens were unable to handle the load”

    – SS Kurt Prufer, told the officers of SMERSCH (according to documents found in the Moscow archives) that only one body at a time could be cremated per muffle and that the cremation time took 60 minutes, and that they tried to cremate 2 bodies at a time; but the temperature inside the muffle went so high that it damaged the oven.
    and:
    – There was a total 52 muffles of Auschwitz, never used simultaneously.

    – 38 is the most that were ever online simultaneously.

    – The 6 at Auschwitz I were taken out of action as soon as the new ones at Birkenau came online. These were in turn liable to long periods of breakdowns and even idleness.

    – If there was a program of mass extermination, the desperate need for cremation capacity is obvious. Why then put six muffles out of action?

    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers, By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  1302. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I certainly haven’t read the 180,000 words(!) of comments in this thread, but since lots of the people here seem to have spent 10x or maybe even 100x more time studying the Holocaust than I have, here’s a couple of questions…

    Now supposedly, the Germans slaughtered millions of Jews and buried them in mass graves in Poland. But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard? Does *anybody* seriously believe something so totally ridiculous? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to claim that the technologically-advanced Germans invented a teleportation machine and beamed all the bodies to Venus?

    Like I said, I’ve never had any interest in the Holocaust story or paid any attention to it, so my knowledge of the details is pretty fuzzy. But someone pointed me to this Holocaust Denial video on YouTube, and I ended up watching over an hour of it before I got bored and gave up:


    Is is *really* true that the official Holocaust narrative claims that the Nazis recruited large numbers of experienced barbers so that they could give each and every Jew a quick, professional haircut just before killing all of them? Shame, shame on the nasty Nazis for not throwing in nice manicures and pedicures as well…

    Is this the *real* historical narrative officially being taught or is it just a satire that someone put together?

  1303. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Thanks. It gives me a really warm feeling.

  1304. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    I’m also not sure that the Jews want to see you all destroyed and removed from history. You may have your own reasons to believe that and you may have researched some evidence about that but it’s not anything I’m familiar with or know anything about

    But that’s exactly what’s going to happen to the white race if we lose majority status in our own countries. The other races (and our own for that matter) are getting taught at (((school))) to hate us FFS. They’re not going to be merciful if they ever reach that kind of power. Think South Africa but ten times worse because the black government there is still fearing the powerful whitey countries across the world. Once that’s gone (Russia will have be nuked) it all over.

    So yes, the plan is obviously total genocide. We’ll be either killed or forced into miscegenation.

    If this volunteerism does not work
    for the Republic,

    then the State will move
    to still more coercive measures.

    – (((Nicolas Sarkozy))), Palaiseau, 17 December 2008

  1305. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Simply stated with no necessity to review your old links which have already been discredited, see http://www.codoh.com:

    We’re talking about an alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claims of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, or even yhe 35,000 alleged at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    Note that you have been asked to show us these remains, but have failed to do so.

    Everyone, see video below.
    See my comment 684 above listing the The ever changing fake Auschwitz numbers.

    burden of proof: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    Auschwitz: An “extermination camp” where thousands of Jews chose to be left behind when the Germans left.

    An “extermination camp” where most of the inmates, more thousands, chose to leave WITH the ‘evil’ Germans.

    An “extermination camp” where 1,250,000 human remains are supposedly buried, but no one can show us these remains.

    An “extermination camp” where the absurdly alleged homicidal ‘gas chambers’ could not have worked as alleged, as proven repeatedly, scientifically.

    An “extermination camp” where fake ‘gas chambers’ were “reconstructed” AFTER THE WAR.

    An “extermination camp” where detailed aerial photos of the period show nothing that is alleged to have been happening.

    An “extermination camp” where there are even obvious, laughable attempts to tamper with aerial photos that make a mockery of the fake storyline.
    see:
    Auschwitz Aerial photos, tampered with to fit the fake story
    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669&p=87558

    An “extermination camp” where there are countless Jew “survivors”.

    An “extermination camp” where so called “survivors” say the most impossible and conflicting things that do not hold up to scrutiny, would be laughed out of a legit court of law.

  1306. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    You give effective support to the view that class is more important than race – in a functioning state.

  1307. Wally says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,
    Indeed, the ‘magical Nazis’ could defy laws of science and had massive amounts of war time fuel to spare. LOL

    What it’s all about: “There’s no business like ‘Shoah’ business.”

    a must read: the so called ‘Holocaust’ / theatre of the absurd: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66
    see claims like: “Gas chambers on wheels in Treblinka, which dumped their victims directly into burning pits; delayed-action poison gas that allowed the victims to leave the gas chambers and walk to the mass graves by themselves.”

    burden of proof: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    http://www.codoh.com

  1308. Otterboy says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    My main problem with 9/11 is trying to believe the same administration that illegally invaded (along with it’s UK poodle) the country of Iraq, the country where my parents are from, resulting in the almost total destruction of that country and the deaths of up to 1m people. Everything we were told beforehand was lies and a huge crock of shit. Yet I’m suppose to believe the very same people and the official report which left out building 7 in totality?

    But not just that. I also don’t believe in that many coincidences can happen at the same time on the very same day. And I have spoken to a physicist and several structural engineers. It’s a subject I’ve spent quite a bit of time on. However, this is not the thread, or the time and place to discuss 9/11 which could be as big a topic as the current one. I’ll be happy to debate with you another time. I’m not sure if Ron Unz has covered the subject in the past but if he cares to open up the topic we can swap thoughts

    Best wishes

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Erebus
  1309. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    What’s your take on the Oskar Gröner interviews and evidence. *Your* thoughts not the usual codoh stuff.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Colin Wright
  1310. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Typical Jewish reply.

    The goyim deserve it because we forced them or corrupted the right people to force them. And why should we ever stop? It’s been only 70+ years after the holo-event.

    100% psychopathy.

  1311. I guess the Holocaust Business is pretty lucrative. Why else would all these shills come here to shout and those who are asking questions about it.

  1312. Otterboy says:
    @Heros

    There’s a lot of truth in what you say. I have noticed this, increasingly so.

    From my point of view I believe in the totality of free speech so in that sense even though I don’t agree with it I respect their right to say it

    However, the real problem is the absolute double standard. If similar jokes or caricatures are made about Jews it’s immediately condemned. Here in the UK as well as in the USA there are so many organisations on the lookout for any kind of supposed antisemitism. These very highly organised groups that literally troll through all the media and immediately jump onto anything that they themselves declare antisemitic. No other group has this kind of highly organised structure. For example there’s definitely more racism here against blacks and Asians and of course Muslims but it never makes the headlines. But anything to do with the Jews, even a bit of harmless piss taking is simply a no go. And it’s this fear of the repercussions that can literally be career destroying and ruin you financially. So we’re left with the Jews being able to take the piss out of everyone else but if anyone tries to do it to them they have to endure a full on assault.

    Imagine a gentile comedian making a similar joke about Moses, Abraham or the chief Rabbi, that Sarah Silverman made about jesus? It just wouldn’t happen

  1313. cassandra says:
    @Anon

    Simply asserting the points of contention that you’re trying to prove doesn’t make a convincing argument. In fact, it undermines your credibility:

    The deportation is copiously documented, there is no reasonable doubt about it.

    You may have come to believe that arguments along these lines are persuasive; if so, you should realize that at least some of us here can reason as adults. To your more detailed points:

    “Even more at times, since there was a pause.” -> Interruptions require even larger numbers on occasion to compensate, and render the numeric/time claim even less plausible, strengthening dykstra’s objection even more.

    “Obviously, no one claims that they were all squeezed into one train.” -> Right: as far as I can tell no one claimed that 400,000 people were put on one train. And your point is…?

    “The distribution can be seen here: http://www.zchor.org/hungaria” -> Exactly which part of the calculation does this article impact?

    “Your argument did not exactly make sense.” -> Apologies if the preceding line in my original was unclear: I meant by this that the numbers to which dykstra objected were so close to the maximum that the issue couldn’t be decided on that basis.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1314. @Ron Unz

    The official Holocaust historians have always refused to debate the deniers. If Holocaust denial is that offensive it is surely their duty to refute the deniers in an open debate isn’t it?. My guess is the reason they have always refused is that while they would win the debate they would have to concede too many points. I was raised to believe the Holocaust was the worst crime in human history. It had been carefully planned in advance and was implemented using industrial efficency. Austwitz was literally a death factory with the bodies being processed into fertilizer etc. How much of that is true? What really separates the holocaust from other genocides like Armenia, the Congo, namibia etc. Was it just a genocide like all the others? Whoops that’s Holocaust denial isn’t it.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @peterAUS
  1315. Wally says:
    @Ron Unz

    – “barbers” had cut the hair of between sixty and seventy women at the same time inside one of the gas chambers, which was moreover equipped with several benches. According to “Holocaust historian” Yitzhak Arad.”

    – “barbers, 17 benches, 60 to 70 naked women and children, and several SS guards into a 144-square-foot gas chamber in order to have a haircut before the gassing, like Abraham Bomba swore to Claude Lanzmann for his movie, ‘Shoah’”

    – “barbers would go into a 12 X 12 foot chamber filled with 300 victims ready to be exterminated to cut off their hair. At the same camp, they needed only one Ukrainian prisoner to pull out their teeth”

    – “barbers and some benches; approximately 60 or 70 naked women entered along with an unknown number of children; it took about 8 minutes for that entire group to have its hair cut; no one left the room”

    – “barbers, was obliged to shear the hair of seventy naked women sitting in a gas chamber which measured four meters square”

    much more at:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=barbers

    http://www.codoh.com

  1316. peterAUS says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn’t help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about.

    Nice quote.

    Now, as to who to apply it to, I am not so sure. I’ll, briefly, explain.
    In my civilian work life I’ve dealt with several Jews. Not one of them behaved that way. Not one. From a girl at reception to a senior project manager.

    But….hehehe…it perfectly describes, say, 100 % of white progs/libtards from all levels of corporate environment. And, perhaps more importantly, around 90 % of all levels of management regardless of race/ethnicity/culture/religion.
    Makes you think, a?
    Cancel that, probably not. Easier.

  1317. peterAUS says:
    @Colin Wright

    The Holocaust has ceased to be a historical event, but has become a religious truth. There’s a dogma, and to question it in any way is quite literally heresy. That describes what happens.

    Yup.

    But the converse applies as well. Holocaust ‘Revisionists’ …..

    In their way, they too are treating ‘the Holocaust’ as a religious truth. Only they wish to deny it.

    Pretty much.

  1318. Hans says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mr. Unz, you might enjoy David Irving’s outstanding book on Milch, The Rise and Fall of the Luftwaffe (http://fpp.co.uk/books/Milch/Milch.pdf). Among the wealth of detail on the range of issues, it is quite clear how desperate the labor shortage was and how vicious the infighting amongst the services for laborers for their projects was.

    Ursula Haverbeck, the nonagenarian grandmother recently imprisoned, delivers devastating commentary during this interview:

    Ursula Haverbeck Interview –

    • Replies: @bj
  1319. Art says:
    @crimson2

    I can’t stand Netanyahu and I support BDS, so what the fuck are you even talking about?

    From another crimson2 comment to me: As always, you Nazi clowns have no idea what’s going on. I’m not Jewish. If you think only Jews hate Nazi scum like you, then you’re in for a big surprise.

    Hey man — are you on speed or something?

    You are jumping to some bizarre conclusions. There are over 3,000 “Art” comments – none of them indicate that I am a Nazi. I hate Nazis. A thousand of them end with – Think Peace – is that the slogan of a Nazi?

    Yes – I have defended Germany post WWII, because they have maintained peace.

    Think Peace — Art

  1320. @Ron Unz

    If you have time, it’s worthwhile to read the testimony of Dr Leon Wells. Leon’s testimony that he was one of the Jews that dug up the bodies, put them into piles 2,500 bodies high, tossed a match onto the piles and then the Jews would go up in a gigantic ball of flame….thereby proving by convergence of evidence that Jews are in fact flammable.

    Leon also testifies that after the cremated Jews were put into a Bone Grinder the Ash Commander (and I am not kidding about this) would throw the ashes into the air, and all traces of the roasted, bone grinded Jew would be blown away by the wind.

    Leon further testified that from these Jew piles the sonderkommandos would extract 10 Kilos of Gold per day. Who knew that digging up dead Jews would result in a doubling of the world’s known gold reserves?

    And this is from Eichmann’s trial! They hanged a guy based on this and other similarly nutty testimony.

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-023-02.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1321. Wally says:
    @Anon

    The absurdly alleged Auschwitz ‘gas chamber’ were / are scientifically impossible.

    The alleged ca. 1,100,000 Auschwitz human remains do not exist, just like at all the other alleged sites.

    So what Groening ‘said’ is factually wrong and simply impossible.

    At 93 and with a jail term hanging over his head, he like others, said what his captors wanted him to say. Simple stuff really.

    I agree with these Revisionist points:

    How Historian Rees Falsifies and Invents, by Panagiotis Heliotis : https://codoh.com/library/document/4917/?lang=en

    Oskar Groning – ‘I saw the gas chambers…’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7622

    He Loves Children, By Jett Rucker : https://codoh.com/library/document/3775/?lang=en

    aerial / ground photos debunk Oskar Groening Auschwitz fraud: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9484&p=79410&hilit=groening+hannover#p79410

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anon
  1322. Wally says:
    @Yellowford

    said:
    “My guess is the reason they have always refused is that while they would win the debate they would have to concede too many points.”

    Really? Why do you say “they would win”?

    Please back up your claim.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Yellowford
  1323. peterAUS says:
    @Yellowford

    What really separates the holocaust from other genocides like Armenia, the Congo, namibia etc.

    Americans.

    They destroyed the regime which was doing it. At least they believe it.

    It made Americans good guys. Actually, because that was the worst crime ever, evil incarnate, it made Americans the best guys…….ever.
    And, the best guys ever, whatever they feel, think or do is just…..the best.

    Including, overseas: overthrowing regimes, breaking up countries, invading and occupying them.
    Domestically: increasing power/wealth disparity, destroying domicile culture, curtailing liberties….etc..etc.

    Simple.

  1324. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Now supposedly, the Germans slaughtered millions of Jews and buried them in mass graves in Poland. But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard?

    It’s up there with the “Israel is our biggest ally and the only democracy in the ME” knee-slapper.

  1325. cassandra says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That Lithuanians killed many jews is beyond reasonable dispute.

    I first came across this issue sometime ago in Leni Yahil’s book, The Holocaust: The Fate of European Jewry, and I still recall her account of the seven fortresses of Silaulai. I found it a depressingly difficult read. But it does lays out many issues of which I’d been unaware, although, as common in this genre, I found myself pondering the trustworthiness of what I was reading. Despite reservations, it was pretty clear that a good number of Lithuanians supported German efforts to eliminate Jews.

    I find it intriguing that Nazi sympathizers were also active in Banderista Ukraine, both then and now. There seems to be a connection between these nationalists, as witnessed by the reaction of Lithuania, on the Baltic Sea, to what happened in Crimea on the Black Sea. It’s as if you tap a patella with a hammer and an arm shoots up. Perhaps a strong residue of the old Polish-Lithuanian nation still connects these peoples.

    The reason is to be found in jews controlling the Lithuanian economy.

    Being a taboo subject, the political origins of anti-Semitism are usually painted over, so this comment piques my interest. Was this discussed in Browning’s book, or did you find this somewhere else? Thank you.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1326. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    thereby proving by convergence of evidence that Jews are in fact flammable.

    Haha, but that’s not all:

    “Then we have the jewish woman camper who said she was able to achieve very accurate dead body counts of cremated Jews. This was made possible due to as she claimed, she noticed how whenever a Jew got thrown into the ovens, and began to cook/burn, if it was a Jewish body it gave off a different color and sweeter smelling scent in the smoke from the chimney. When it was just a goyim Gentile body tossed into oven, when they toasted and burned, the smoke color was Darker greyish and smelled very Badly, when compared to a Jewish body.”

    Who knew that digging up dead Jews would result in a doubling of the world’s known gold reserves?

    Funny.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1327. @Anon

    ‘@Wally
    What’s your take on the Oskar Gröner interviews and evidence. *Your* thoughts not the usual codoh stuff.’

    Lol! I’ve seen absolutely no reason to think there’s a distinction.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1328. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    – LOL False strawman arguments everywhere as usual.

    – “Four million” is a True Believer number, not an informed ‘holocaust’ Revisionist one.

    Auschwitz has been proven to not have been a scientifically impossible “extermination camp”. And you, yet again, cannot prove otherwise.

    A must see list of “extermination camp Auschwitz” beat downs:: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=chose&t=11716&sf=msgonly

    – Of course Hitler was uninvolved because narrative is a lie. LOL
    See my comment above #372 on the Schlegelberger Document, where Hitler said that ‘the ‘Jewish question would be handled AFTER the war.’

    – Indeed, many died of typhus in the German camps, Allied camps, and generally throughout Europe during that period. Yawn. The Allies, BTW, illegally bombed & strafed civilian transports which were transporting food & medicine to the German sites. My my.

    – Desperate projection by you. Revisionists laugh at the truly religious nature of YOUR impossible narrative.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1329. @Wally

    ‘…and asked to offer his thoughts as opposed to CODOH links, Wally offers CODOH links.’

    Wally should switch sides and start pumping out Hasbara. Then at least he’d be getting paid.

    …or am I being naive here?

    • Replies: @Wally
  1330. bj says:

    “My crime is I wanted to remain a German in a thoroughly anti-German age.” Ernst Zundel


    Ernst Zundel – A Spartan of the Spirit

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Colin Wright
  1331. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Well duh! Zionist Jews making false & impossible accusations about murdering Jews?
    That’s what they do. LOL
    ex.:
    See these about discredited shyster Browning.*

    Yet there is simply no proof. Notice how proof has NOT been produced in this thread or anywhere else. Revisionists have shattered their lies with ease.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    * See his shyster Christopher Browning shot down here:
    Christopher Browning and the “Nazi Gas Chambers” of Belzec, By Paul Grubach : https://codoh.com/library/document/962/?lang=en
    and:
    The Final Solution: A Response to Christopher Browning, A Review By Paul Grubach: https://codoh.com/library/document/162/?lang=en
    and:
    Grubach demolishes Browning and the Eichmann tales: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5262
    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=christopher+browning

  1332. @cassandra

    ‘…I first came across this issue sometime ago in Leni Yahil’s book, The Holocaust: The Fate of European Jewry, and I still recall her account of the seven fortresses of Silaulai. I found it a depressingly difficult read. But it does lays out many issues of which I’d been unaware, although, as common in this genre, I found myself pondering the trustworthiness of what I was reading. Despite reservations, it was pretty clear that a good number of Lithuanians supported German efforts to eliminate Jews…’

    Now, what is interesting about this is that their murderousness in 1941 notwithstanding, I’ve read that Lithuanians had no history of participating in pogroms targeting the Jews. Gentile Lithuanians may well have discriminated against Jews and marginalized them — but they didn’t kill them — not until 1941.

    So what changed? That’s what tends to be omitted. When the Red Army rolled in in 194o, many Jews leaped at the opportunity to join in all the dispossession and political persecution — and to find themselves places in the new order. Presumably not all — but as one observer put it, there was a definite attitude of ‘we’re on top now.’

    And of course, since Stalin’s hand didn’t rest lightly on his subjects, that implied a lot of death, misery, fear, and dispossession for those now on the bottom.

    …and payback came in 1941. I’m often ambivalent about discussing this. The best metaphor I can come up with is a girl who goes walking in scanty attire in a bad part of town at 2:00 am and gets raped.

    I don’t want to condone her rape. At the same time, it’s impossible not to realize that her behavior had something to do with the outcome.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1333. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    IOW, you still do not have proof for your laughable, impossibly alleged “millions of murdered Jews”.
    LOL

    Serious question & no offense, but are you gay or something?
    Your weird obsession with me makes it appears that you are.
    Sorry, but I’m not into it.

    Anyway, I still own you.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1334. bj says:

    David Cole and Ernst Zundel were persecuted for questioning the Holocaust blood libel against the German people. Thousands of people of good will and free mind are incarcerated by state power subverted by the Holocaust Industry for cash and political purposes. Today many are questioning the reality of the Hollywood Holocaust narrative.

    Jewish David Cole Interviewed By Ernst Zundel.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  1335. @Ron Unz

    ‘…they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear…’

    Why would the resources allocated have to be ‘gigantic?’ At a pure guess, a hundred men with ten pieces of mechanical equipment could dig up and dispose of…I dunno…the remains of at least a thousand people a day — maybe more.

    But let’s limit it to a thousand. Okay: Sonderkommando Wright can get rid of 300,000 corpses in a year — allowing for Christmas off, bad weather, and so on.

    Ten such bodies of a hundred men each can make the bodies actually buried in the camps disappear in a year. That’s a thousand men tied up for a year.

    This is not a gigantic effort. A thousand men is about a battalion. Germany was fielding something like three thousand such battalions at the time.

    Obviously, the figure is only accurate to within an order of magnitude or so — but we’re talking 0.03% of Germany’s total war effort for one year.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
  1336. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    The CODOH posts are spot on. They reflect my own views. As I said & you ignored.

    Tell us, right here, what, in your opinion, is specifically wrong with the “CODOH stuff”?

    Now everyone, watch him dodge. LOL

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1337. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    As an example of how your musings (which are debunked by Soviet documents anyway) are irrelevant.

    Sure, the Russian/Soviet authorities are known for their transparency… give me a break!

    At one point, a delegation from the U.N Human Rights Commission visited Moscow to assess the situation of Jews trapped behind the Iron Curtain. Conveniently, Zev was placed in a mental institution by Russian authorities for the duration of their visit.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2489607

    By refusing to open the archives of the interrogation of Raoul Wallenberg, the Russian intelligence service is proving that it aspires to be the heir of Stalin’s NKVD.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494634

    Samizdat

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat

    Hungarian Holocaust Debate: Otto Perge vs. Dr. Laszlo Karsai

    http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html Archived link: http://archive.is/85jKG

    • Replies: @Anon
  1338. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “You can think of the theory what you will — but it’s a fact that Jews were never murdered wholesale in functioning states, but only in those the Germans and their allies had effectively dismantled. Jews were not murdered on a genocidal scale in France et al, or even in Germany itself — they were almost invariably sent to someplace where the state was no longer in being — usually Poland — to be killed. And of course they were murdered wholesale in those parts of the Soviet Union that had been overrun.”

    The problem with this theory as an explanation of Hitler’s actions is that according to the official history, Hitler originally did not intend to exterminate Jews, but he did start moving them to the east. Indeed, the claim is that the idea of exterminating Jews was decided or invented in the Wannsee conference January 1942. There definitely was a program of taking Jews to concentration camps and moving them to east before that. Originally the east was the Lublin area, but after Operation Barbarossa June 1941 the plan changed and Jews were to be moved further to the east.

    The second problem in your theory is to show that the Jews were murdered wholesale. It seems that 260,000 passed alive Operation Reinhard cams and came to DP camps after 1946. That means simply that not all were killed in Operation Reinhard cams and seriously questions how many were killed. Concerning Auschwitz and other extermination camps, simple calculations show that most Jews sent to the camp were not killed but sent forward to other camps. I can show all this, so let us just assume this is so. Then I ask the question: why Hitler wanted to move Jews to the east, or to any place? The answer is, to move Jews out of Europe. The followup question: where then? The answer is, not to Madagascar as to move them there would have required making the island a prison island, as Jews did not want to go there. Then there is only one other place: Palestine. Which means that Hitler was implementing the Judeo-Masonic plan of creating Israel.

    I use the 320,000 Hungarian Jews as a case to support this theory. What happened to these Jews? Nazis separated 110,000 for work force and they were sent to labor camps. What happened to the rest? There are only two possible answers: 1) they were killed in Auschwitz, 2) they were sent to east. The problem with 1) is that there is no hard evidence showing that these Jews were killed in Auschwitz. There would be if 320,000 were indeed killed there. Thus the answer is 2). The interesting issue in 2) is that Soviet troops had already taken the eastern border. Therefore sending Jews there means sending them over to Soviets. This would not have happened directly, so Germans gave these useless Jews to Zionists and Zionists took them to the Soviet Union, which did not work as intended as nothing was later heard of these Jews. We see the same behavior of Nazis with concentration camp inmates: those who could work were given a choice to follow Germans or to stay and wait for Soviets, those who did not work were left alive to wait for Soviets. The idea was to take the Jews to Soviet care after they had done the required work. The Zionist plan was that later these Jews would move form the Soviet Union to Israel, only the Soviet Union did not allow it for a long time. Or maybe they waited for a command.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1339. @Ron Unz

    ‘…Is is *really* true that the official Holocaust narrative claims that the Nazis recruited large numbers of experienced barbers so that they could give each and every Jew a quick, professional haircut just before killing all of them? Shame, shame on the nasty Nazis for not throwing in nice manicures and pedicures as well…’

    I don’t think there is an ‘official Holocaust narrative’ in the sense you suggest. If anything, the ‘official’ narrative is more a set of negative propositions. You can’t suggest any figure under five million dead, you can’t suggest the Holocaust wasn’t utterly unique in human experience, you can’t suggest the gas chambers didn’t exist, you can’t say Hitler didn’t know, you can’t question the primacy of Auschwitz, you mustn’t suggest that Jewish behavior had anything to do with it, and so on.

    Naturally, people come up with all kinds of embroideries and ‘memoirs’ that range from the probably perfectly accurate to the utterly ridiculous.

    None of that does anything to demonstrate that the central event didn’t occur. In her dotage, my mother was given to claiming we were descended from Danish royalty. Earlier, the story had merely been that the Danish girl who emigrated to the United States in 1864 had been born in the King’s Palace in Denmark.

    I don’t think I’m descended from Danish royalty. That doesn’t demonstrate that one of my ancestors wasn’t born in the King’s palace at all. That seems perfectly possible to me.

    Ditto for the Holocaust. That some have made improbable claims about it does nothing to demonstrate that it didn’t happen at all.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1340. Anonymous [AKA "Nog"] says:
    @Colin Wright

    Read ARMENIAN GOLGOTHA or read a book about SMYRNA back about 1922. The world is a tough neighborhood. Human nature is generally nasty. We have built a little paradise here in the US but it can’t last.

  1341. @jilles dykstra

    Yes, there were spontaneous outbreaks of anti-Jewish violence in those areas that had just recently been annexed by the Soviets, for a number of reasons. It will complicate any accurate accounting of the EG actions (as an occupying power the Germans had some obligation to maintain civil order).

  1342. bj says:

    Tens of Millions of people suffered and died in WWII,

    Firebombing, famine, typhus, massacres, and combat,

    Here is the story of famine, exile, death, and horror,

    Experienced by a German Mennonite family in Russia.

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    The deification of the Jewish dead as unique,

    is a blood libel on the tens of millions of non-Jewish dead!

    Ernst Zundel interviews Ingrid Rimland (1998)

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1343. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    You still have not explained the gaps/holes and discrepancies in the Yad Vashem figures, their interesting data categorization/classification methodology and creative data interpretation approach, which, by the way, are similar to your own. You are evading the questions, it seems.

    See following comments for details:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494896

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494595

    A Brief Overview of Revisionist Critiques of Yad Vashem’s Central Database of Shoah Victims’ Names

    Hence, their method can be summarized as follows: Initially they assume that all Jews within Hitler’s reach were “presumably murdered.” Then they collect all the names they can somehow get, and delete from that list those for whom they receive documentary or anecdotal evidence of their survival.

    Needless to say, that amounts to a reversal of the burden of proof.

    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/1/4225 Archived link: http://archive.is/iookG#selection-591.0-595.67

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Grahamsno(G64)
  1344. @j2

    Interesting comment as always. Eichmann would have unquestionably been involved in any kind of negotiations between the Zionists and Soviets re. the Hungarian Jews. Since his capture by the Israelis is shrouded in a propaganda myth (including his absurd testimony), as his whereabouts were known to the major intelligence services long before that, he was likely some sort of asset/double agent in all of this.

    • Replies: @j2
  1345. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes, but German stupidity really is unbounded. They thought that if they burn and destroy all traces, nobody will notice that 6 million Jews are missing.And they continued this killing even after they knew that they will lose the war and be accused for war crimes, still they killed the Hungarian Jews and again thought that they just destroy the traces and nobody will know. And they left many eyewitnesses alive after having made all this work.

    • Replies: @bj
  1346. Robjil says:
    @bj

    I always wondered why one is given five years for questioning the orthodox viewpoint of Holocaustianity. Five seems a bit much. We are in living a new dark ages on this small planet. One can’t question the religion of our age – Holocaustiany. Any deviation from the orthodox view is a chance for five years in a prison cell in many countries in Europe and in practically any place on this small planet – ostracism or unemployment. I looked up what the number five represents in Judaism. There are five books of Moses and five divisions to the Psalms. Kabbalah/Talmud texts are also sometimes separated into divisions of five. Five is the number of protection, as symbolized by the hamsa, the talismanic hand. Since, the number five represents the concept of protection in the 500 BC cult, it is therefore the ideal number to imprison someone who questions the cult of Holocaustianity. It is the official protection number of the cult. These European nations are so”civilized”, so up to date, sophisticated that they “must” follow the dictates of a 500 BC cult in the 21st century.

  1347. bj says:

    The holocaust unleashed on Germany by firebombing, starvation, disease, rape and murder has been justified by a false narrative of WWII being primarily about the suffering and death of Jews.

    Tens of millions of Germans died, tens of millions of Russians died, tens of millions of others died; the sole memory and deification of the Jewish dead is a blood libel on the graves of Russian, German, and other dead in that horrible war.

    It was the most deadly and destructive war in human history. Millions were killed, billions in property was destroyed, ancient cultures were reduced to rubble–World War II was truly man’s greatest cataclysm.

    Hellstorm: The Documentary

  1348. Alden says:
    @j2

    Your theory that Hitler sent Jews to Russia where zionists under the protection of Stalin trained and moved then to Israel is what Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandel claims.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @j2
  1349. bj says:
    @j2

    Tens of millions died in WWII,

    By firebombing, famine, typhus, massacre……

    What makes a few Jews so special?

  1350. @Wally

    I am inclined to believe there was an Armenian genocide because they were not there anymore. Their villages suddenly disappeared or had new inhabitants. The same applies to the Jews of Poland. The lies told about the Holocaust are mind boggling and there can be no doubt the motive was idealogicol. It’s obvious it’s scale was exaggerated and could only be defended with lies. Why won’t they excavate mass graves? Because that will prove a particular massacre had 2000 victims instead of 25000. They are chained to their lies. That does not mean the holocaust did not happen. Where did the Jews transited through Treblinka go? Where are they where are their descendants?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1351. cassandra says:
    @Colin Wright

    When the Red Army rolled in in 194o, many Jews leaped at the opportunity to join in all the dispossession and political persecution — and to find themselves places in the new order.

    Very thought-provoking: do you have favorite sources for this episode?

    I’m often ambivalent about discussing this.

    I share your ambivalence, but only emotionally. The conformist rationale for anti-semitism explains that the dislike was due to the fact that the jews refused to assimilate. In the first place, the reason seems weak, in the second, instead of fleshing this thesis out with detail, the usual procedure is to halt further discussion. This seems sketchy to me in both senses of the word. I suspect, as with most history, that an accurate accounting will leave no one beyond reproach.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1352. bj says:
    @Hans

    The American authorities estimate 13,000,000 or 14,000,000 Germans were ethnically cleansed in Prussia, Silesia. Pomerania, etc. Six million of these displayed men, women, and children never arrived in Germany. Do the Jews stand on the burned, raped, and murdered bodies of six million Germans and shout HOLOCAUST?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1353. Anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    > You are so ignorant on this topic that if I were you, I would simply shut up

    Please note that ad hominems and insults are not arguments. Try to formulate an argument. Take your time.

    > If 1.1M died in Auschwitz, then it implies that 1M Jews died in Auschwitz.

    That’s exactly what I wrote, and that’s exactly what you clearly did not know until I pointed it out to you. You actually wrote: “As this number is much smaller than the official estimate 1.1M”, comparing your estimated Jewish toll to the overall accepted toll.

    > No, it is fundamentally false.

    How come you can’t show that it’s false, then?

    > Soviets were in Treblinka but what makes you think the Jews could not be transported to Treblinka? Obviously you do not consider all possibilities, such as that they were handed to Soviets.

    Well, they never were, so what is your point again?

    > These Jews could have been killed, freed, passed to Soviets, taken to whatever place.

    They could not have been freed (no reason to deport them in the first place), none were passed to the Soviets, and if you claim they were taken to whatever place, you have to specify where and what your evidence is.

    So, any explanation of the fate of these 320k Jews?

    • Replies: @j2
  1354. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    > Imagine trying to win a murder case

    All the relevant murder cases that mattered have been won. We’re not in a court.

    So, any explanation of where these 320k Jews went to?

    > This is on Jews, who shut down discussion wherever they find it. It’s the Jews’ fault we can’t have adult conversations about this topic (inter alia).

    Incorrect, the CODOH Animal Farm’s censorship cannot be blamed on Jews.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1355. Art says:

    Some Sunday Cheer for all!

    Think Peace — Art

  1356. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    LENGTHY, but worth it. SELECT ‘MORE’ IF NECESSARY.

    – And where would the alleged resulting remains of those allegedly cremated on ‘railroad ties’ go?
    Or is this just another ‘magic Nazis’ trick where all remains vanish? LOL

    “The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.”

    – Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

    – Well then, a ridiculous story that still says there are enormous mass graves to found.

    – BTW: here’s an alleged “bone crushing machine”:Let’s all say cement mixer. LOL
    see:
    The Bone Mill of Lemberg, By Klaus Schwensen: https://codoh.com/library/document/3220/?lang=en
    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=bone+crushing+machine

    – Hapless ‘Colin Wright’ shot down again. ‘Hoisted by his own petard’.

    – Take the alleged Einsatzgruppen action at Babi Yar for example, where 34,000 Jews were allegedly shot into a ravine, no one claims they were exhumed and magically disappeared. Verification of the claim that the remains are still supposedly there is the fact that a crew of Jews recently went there looking for the alleged remains and found NOTHING.*

    *Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !!: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

    – Aerial of Babi Yar at exact time of the alleged action:Nothing happening that would necessarily be happening IF the story was factual.

    – an aside: Then there’s the massive amount of scarce war time fuel that would been required.
    If they try claim wood was used, then entire forests would have necessarily been cleared. Imagine the number of people, trucks, & machinery that would have required. The preposterous claim is simply impossible as Ron Unz has stated, …. anyway you look at it.

    – All of this fantasy ‘exhumation’ nonsense flies in the face of the fact that Jew historians claim that alleged immense mass graves are still to be found in allegedly known locations. But they are not there, they were NEVER there.

    Jheeeesh! Once again:

    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.
    Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
    http://www.codoh.com

  1357. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    > I see..so the fact that Putin who served as a KGB officer and as prime minister and president of Russia and would have had access to any files he chooses about the number of Jews in the first Soviet government is irrlevant, because he is not an “academic historian”?

    You are making a basic logical mistake. That he could have such info delivered to him if he wanted doesn’t mean he actually bothered to have it delivered to him.

    Hence Putin is not a primary source on the topic, and cannot be relied on without knowing his sources.

    Indeed, we know that the claim is false.

    > Perhaps you would prefer the report from US Intelligence officer Captain Montgomery Schuyler

    Not really, unless he has credible sources.

    > Hitler was completely right about you clowns when he wrote :

    Describes deniers like you to a tee.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1358. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    You’re just spewing incomprehensible gibberish now. Must be a late hour in Tel Aviv.

    We’re not in a court.

    We kinda’ are. And you’re losing, badly.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1359. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    Would you also be so kind to provide any sources, if they are available to you, to the following claims, specifically the claim that “In a sordidly cynical rivalry, Eichmann wanted to beat the “record” set by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle, who had deported the 275,000 residents of the Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka“, since these claims and statements seem and sound fabricated and made up to me. Thank you.:


    7. What role did Hungarian authorities play in the ghettoization and deportation of the Jews?

    […]
    Hungarian authorities acted with an efficiency that surprised even the Germans. Hungary implemented the wearing of the yellow star on April 5, 1944. The Hungarian government decided on the ghettoization on April 7 and began implementing the edict just nine days later, on April 16. By the end of May, ghettos and camps had been created in more than 200 localities. Deportations took place at a torrid pace. In a sordidly cynical rivalry, Eichmann wanted to beat the “record” set by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle, who had deported the 275,000 residents of the Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka—a distance of the 100 kilometers—over a span of 53 days between July 22 and September 12, 1942. Despite the approaching front lines, the deteriorating infrastructure, and the fact that deportation trains from Hungary to Auschwitz had to travel an average of 400–500 kilometers, Eichmann was successful thanks to the work of his Hungarian accomplices. Hungarian authorities deported 437,402 Hungarian Jews on 147 trains in just 56 days between May 15 and July 9, 1944. Apart from 15,000, all of these deportees were sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau.

    https://www.ushmm.org/research/scholarly-presentations/conferences/the-holocaust-in-hungary-70-years-later/the-holocaust-in-hungary-frequently-asked-questions#7 Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180902223158/https://www.ushmm.org/research/scholarly-presentations/conferences/the-holocaust-in-hungary-70-years-later/the-holocaust-in-hungary-frequently-asked-questions

    There is conflicting testimony from Eichmann himself on these matters that contradicts The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum‘s version of events, in my opinion, specifically that Eichmann was chomping at the bit “to beat the “record” set by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle”.

    He clearly states in his testimony (see source below), on several occasions, that he had no authority or power over how quickly the deportations would proceed, etc. “That is not quite true, because it was not my fault, nor anyone else’s fault, that these delays occurred; it was simply a result of the bureaucratic procedures of the Hungarian gendarmerie” and others were actually pressuring him to speed up the process “On the other hand, there was another fact – that this Special Plenipotentiary subsequently breathed down my neck almost daily and wanted to speed up the evacuation in an unbelievably pressing manner, in order to create a climate of deportation, a nervous climate, because, as he put it, in such a climate it was possible for him to push through the Reichsfuehrer’s order both more elegantly and faster.“, while he, it appears, would have preferred to actually delay, slow or even entirely stop the deportations: “But I said to Joel Brand, as also to Mrs. Hansi Brand, as well as to Dr. Kasztner, that the order from Berlin said: “Deportations will continue in the meanwhile and will not be stopped until Joel Brand returns with a statement to the effect that these matters have been accepted by the Jewish organizations abroad.” That was an order I had received and was unable to change. Had I changed it in any way, it would have been meaningless, because there would not have been any powers behind me to accomplish such a thing.

    He even states that he did not enjoy his work and tried for years to be transferred into a different department “I have already referred to my indignation at the fact that I had to help and co-operate in this miserable work, the deportations,” … “I had tried for years, from the autumn of 1939 on, to get away from Department IV [On 19 December 1939, Eichmann was assigned to head RSHA Referat IV B4 (RSHA Sub-Department IV-B4), tasked with overseeing Jewish affairs and evacuation.] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Transition_from_emigration_to_deportation

    Source:

    The Trial of Adolf Eichmann

    Session 86

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-086-03.html Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180902224505/http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-086-03.html

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  1360. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    There are 2.6M deaths per year in the US. 50% (1.3M) are cremated. 1/3 of ashes are buried at cemeteries, 1/3 are kept at home and 1/3 are scattered. This means that every year in the US ashes of 430k people are scattered into environment. The 1/3 kept at homes will be scattered into the environment sooner or later so the number of scattered ashes will be circa 800k per year. In 5 years it is 4M people. In 20 years it 16M people. In 40 years its 32M people.

    https://www.oneworldmemorials.com/blogs/news/46517123-how-many-americans-live-with-cremation-ashes-in-the-home

    In last 40 years 32M people vanished w/o a trace. How would you go about proving it to Wally that 32M people in American died and that they were not teleported to Venus? Wally would not accept any documentation because he would claim thet were forged. He would not accept any witness statement because he would claim that all witnesses lie. Ron Unz, there is a big conspiracy going on. 32M Americans in last 40 years were teleported to Venus and we can’t prove it. Wally must be right that 32M of Americans were teleported to Venus.

    Furthermore, can you imagine the absurdity of cremations? The conspirators want us to believe that they cremate the corpses while charging us for shaving the corpses and applying a make up and dressing them up in their Sunday’s best. Why would you do it if you cremate the bodies and plan to throw away the ashes? That does not make sense. For some reason they want them bodies look good on Venus.

  1361. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    > How is it that jews continue to think that they are more intelligent than everyone else when they cannot help themselves from making idiotic statements like this one?

    I’m not Jewish and the statement is literally true. Germany’s reparations were based on the number of the Jews who settled in Israel and those were basically the costs of the absorption of 500k survivors.

    Thus what I wrote is literally true.

    > What happens now that we know that no one was gassed

    Gas chambers are documented.

    > Why don’t you just look at the headlines that Ron Unz added to the article above?

    Already debunked, pay attention.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#firstholocaust

  1362. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “That some have made improbable claims about it does nothing to demonstrate that it didn’t happen at all.”
    1. Some dishonest people have been making good money on the holo-biz
    2. Some decent people were jailed for making an honest research into the WWII.
    Thee Jewish Power has been undermining the freedom of information and the First Amendment.
    Why are so so glib about these violations? — The dishonesty has become the accepted feature of your tribe.
    http://thewestendnews.com/holocaust-survivor-false-claims/ “…we have attempted to tend to the evidence provided to us, which contrasts the narrative Max Slabotzky evoked to his own benefit (each and every time he was paid to speak at a Maine-citizen funded university or middle/high school). We proceeded in a manner comparable to that of a defense attorney. That is, we presumed his innocence, until we amassed the necessary historical records and expert testimony to convince us, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Mr. Slabotzky exploited the suffering of millions of Jews and political enemies for reasons that we cannot bare to speculate about.”

    https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holocaust-Claims-Conference-fraud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 “For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims. The scope of a conspiracy to defraud the world’s largest Holocaust reparations organization, uncovered in 2009, was much greater than previously believed”

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1363. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    > Speaking of hand-waiving, you have not made a serious effort to analyze Comment #1146.

    There’s no need to, since it’s only handwaving that doesn’t answer the question.

    > It is indeed unfortunate that we do not have records of all the movements inside the USSR. However, there are documents referring to regular movements of thousands of Jews into the Western USSR

    None about Jews allegedly transited through the Aktion Reinhardt camps.

    • Replies: @phil
    , @phil
  1364. @Anonymous

    Yenkel Wiernek testified at both the Nuremburg trial and Eichmann’s trial.

    Wiernek as the only witness to testify at Nuremberg about these 900,000 Jews snuffed at Treblinka. If you read Wiernek’s book A Year In Treblinka, you will discover that:

    QUOTE It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires. END QUOTE

    So once again we have a convergence of evidence that Jews are flammable. Given this vast body of evidence, I am surprised that we don’t read daily about Jews bursting into flames in New York when they are exposed to smokers, who of necessity are outdoors when they need to have a cigarette.

    http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm#chapter10

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Colin Wright
  1365. utu says:
    @j2

    Treblinka is East of Auschwitz.

    You speculate that Hungarian Jews (400k or 320k of them) did not end up in Auschwitz, right? So, where did they go? What si your hypothesis?

    Germans saved Jewish hair.

    You are really getting silly.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  1366. annamaria says:
    @bj

    Don’t do your profiteering on peoples’ sufferings: http://ccfiile.com/Holocaust_Fraud.html

  1367. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    Who says there aren’t massive ground disturbances?

    Remains scattered around, Soviets found a thick layer of ashes on the nearby roads.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
  1368. @Anon

    Let me repeat again,

    QUOTE first they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. END QUOTE

    So Putin is not a good source, even though he has access to all Russian files, but an “academic historian” with no special access is?

    Do you seriously believe you are convincing grown adults with such arguments?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1369. Wally says:
    @Anon

    LENGTHY, but really worth it. SELECT ‘MORE’ IF NECESSARY.

    recommended:
    ‘Holocau$t Controversies’ slapped silly lies about their Hungarian Jews lies
    http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html
    and:
    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944, by Carlo : https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
    Most of them were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever.

    “Hannover’? Oh yeah, that guy that posts at CODOH who has been said to be about 12 different guys …LOL He does rock, however. And my my, Jews do get weird sexual obsessions for imaginary people.

    Indeed, the CODOH Forum which has simple, no name calling, no dodging guidelines for dummies like ‘holocaust controversies’?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

    [MORE]

    Indeed, the CODOH Forum which has this?
    name a specific “holocaust” topic censored / banned here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7322

    Or these?
    Note to Andrew Mathis / Thames Darwin: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9425
    BTW, I’m told that Mathis is not banned, he can post whenever. Oops!!
    and:
    Note to Roberto Muehlenkamp: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11224
    and:
    another note to Roberto on ‘dodging’ challenges: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11340
    and:
    note to JonDoug / then JonDoug threatens Moderator: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=
    and:
    note to AshesAreBurning (Andrew Mathis): https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2069
    and:
    note to David: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=872

    There are more explanations and reminders there about the simple CODOH guidelines to be view. Everything is up front. Those guideline require that everyone back up their claims, Zionists do not like that one bit.

    Hey! Here’s an entire list of one the Zionist ‘holocaust controversies’ guys, Andrew Mathis, which take the reader to some of his allegedly “censored” claims where he is simply crushed, in his own words and my how he now regrets it.
    More on their own completely uncensored posts and the laughable responses they make coming up.

    Anyway, here’s ‘holo, controversies’ Andrew Mathis in his own words taken to the wood shed:

    See the threads below where Andrew Mathis, aka: Thames Darwin has posted and utterly lost, some examples of the beat down:

    Alleged & laughable “mass graves” according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9414

    ‘Andrew Mathis on Dachau, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Treblinka’ : http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9228

    Mathis who also posts as ‘Thames Darwin’, gets shot down: Anecdotal evidence & “holocaust survivors”: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9238

    holocaust’ denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2816

    ‘Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP’s Andrew Mathis’ bogus article’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=284

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

    ‘Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

    ‘Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=254

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control’ :http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2498

    ‘Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526

    ‘holocaust’ History Project to unveil section on Treblinka’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=280

    Industry’s Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania :http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1370. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    > Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 1997 for claim that the remains were still there at Treblinka.

    Quote.

    > You have in no way accounted for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

    I have, whereas you haven’t accounted for their alternative whereabouts.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1371. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Remains scattered around, Soviets found a thick layer of ashes on the nearby roads.

    Haha, this kind of shit is simply not working anymore. The goyim know.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  1372. Wally says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    Great stuff!
    Here is even more on the highly acclaimed & cited Yankel Wiernik:

    Holocaust Controversie’s‘ Roberto Muehlenkamp cites Yankel Wiernik as proof of extermination of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka !!</b: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11271

    http://www.codoh.com

  1373. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “You speculate that Hungarian Jews (400k or 320k of them) did not end up in Auschwitz, right? So, where did they go”

    They went where Jews are. Try actually reading something for a change.

    BTW: W’re still waiting for you to show us the claimed immense mass graves in allegedly known locations.

    recommended:
    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944
    by Carlo Mattogno: https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
    Most of them were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever.
    and:
    http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    – After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering survivors’ testimonies had to go to nearly SIXTY different countries to record the said testimonies on video.
    https://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2009/03/alleged-holocaust-of-jews-is-proving.html

    – ‘J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    http://www.codoh.com

  1374. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    It’s a long story, but basically the HC team exposed an ARC guy who put forgeries on the site. The guy and his sidekick began a smear campaign against HC.

    More details here:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/10/on-demise-of-deathcampsorg-how-fakes.html

  1375. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    > Sure, the Russian/Soviet authorities are known for their transparency… give me a break!

    Of course the *internal* previously secret documentation can be relied on, and is available.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/10/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-6.html

  1376. Wally says:
    @Anon

    “Whereabouts”? ‘Where they went? LOL

    Jew “historians” claim they went to alleged immense mass graves in which the locations are allegedly known. Yet they are not there. Game over.

    See my comment #1403 for tons more.

    And oh yes, the burden of proof, it’s on the accuser: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1377. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Notice that anon does not dare to try and tell us what is in his links which debunks anything. Why?

    They debunk your lies. Any counterarguments?

    > It’s claimed that ca 1,250,00 Jews were murdered and buried at Auschwitz, Jew ‘historians’ claim the alleged remans are still there, the offical$ at Auschwitz claim the alleged remains are still there, but in fact they do not exist. Oops!

    Who claimed that they are still buried there? Source?

    > It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
    > Does anyone see any “corpses”? LOL

    You have not shown any caption. Provide the photo with the caption. And even if a false caption were there, so what? We do not rely on the photo from that book.

    > – On their completely discredited “documents”, they also post the non-controversial ‘vergassungskeller’ document which has been utterly debunked:

    Nothing debunked, “gassing cellar” – gas chamber. And it wasn’t a delousing chamber (doesn’t appear on the list of delousing installations).

    > The facts about the absurd ‘holocaust’ cremation claims from the interrogations of Topf engineers by the Soviet SMERSH between 1946 and 1948, as were published by Gerald Fleming

    Original documents >>>>> interrogations.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2014/10/rebuttal-of-mattogno-on-auschwitz-part.html#docs

    But even better, Mr. KL Vershiedene concedes that engineers were not tortured into giving those statements. Right?

  1378. Bronson says:

    Back in the 90’s (I think it was) the LDS Church (Mormons) decided to do what they call “Temple Work” for supposed holocaust victims. Temple Work is a ceremony where those who were forcibly departed from this mortal coil can be given a second chance at redemption (or so the Mormons believe). So, all in all, who would it hurt? They were looking into lists of (supposed) victims, and the Jews went berserk – so the LDS Church put the kibosh on Temple Work for holocaust “victims”. I believe the main reasons the Jews went bonkers over this was that the Mormons have extensive genealogical records and would have quickly been able to see that names provided were either insufficient in number, or, didn’t actually exist – or were still alive.

    The fact that Jews are so rabidly violent about suppressing any genuine debate about the holocaust or non-Jewish holocaust research, combined with the utter lack of genuine evidence and the physical impossibility of their claims … pretty much says it all. The Truth is their mortal enemy.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1379. crimson2 says:
    @Heros

    There is no doubt that historically jews have been bloodletting Christian children in kaballistic re-enactments of the Crucifixion of Christ.

    One very important question is if it still is going on today. I am convinced that it is

    Wow. You’re insane, dude.

    • Replies: @bj
  1380. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “Who says there aren’t massive ground disturbances?”

    Those who have tried to find the alleged remains in allegedly known places, but could not, that’s who. LOL

    BTW, the alleged resultant remains were supposedly reburied in the same place as they were laughably exhumed from and burned.

    “The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.”
    – Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

    So show us the alleged immense Jew remains. You cannot because they never existed.
    Basic stuff.
    For much more see my comment #1387 above.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  1381. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    > Well, I certainly haven’t read the 180,000 words(!) of comments in this thread

    You don’t have to, just read this rebuttal:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/09/ron-unz-comes-out-as-holocaust-denier.html

    > Now supposedly, the Germans slaughtered millions of Jews and buried them in mass graves in Poland. But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them,

    Not absolutely accurate. In many cases the burnings were of a hygienic nature, since the burials caused ground water pollution, stench etc.

    > thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    Who said that?

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/05/mass-graves-at-nazi-extermination-camps.html

    > Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard?

    Um, it’s not ridiculous at all?

    > But someone pointed me to this Holocaust Denial video on YouTube, and I ended up watching over an hour of it before I got bored and gave up:

    Well, indeed, it’s boring nonsense. Also, it was debunked more than a decade ago:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/04/quick-links.html#debuv

    > Is is *really* true that the official Holocaust narrative claims that the Nazis recruited large numbers of experienced barbers so that they could give each and every Jew a quick, professional haircut just before killing all of them?

    Nobody claimed that.

    > Is this the *real* historical narrative officially being taught or is it just a satire that someone put together?

    I hope you understand that your utter ignorance is not an argument.

  1382. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Numbers? Better still dates?

  1383. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @cassandra

    > Simply asserting the points of contention that you’re trying to prove doesn’t make a convincing argument

    Correct, which is why Holocaust denial fails.

    > “The deportation is copiously documented, there is no reasonable doubt about it.”

    There’s simply nothing you can do against this fact. It’s documented, it’s an objective fact that it happened.

    > “Even more at times, since there was a pause.” -> Interruptions require even larger numbers on occasion to compensate,

    That’s what I wrote. Why are you repeating what I wrote?

    > and render the numeric/time claim even less plausible, strengthening dykstra’s objection even more.

    Since he has never managed to formulate an actual objection, there’s nothing to strengthen. There’s nothing logistically impossible about this. The very claim that it is logistically impossible is ridiculous on its face. It’s mere transportation.

    > “Obviously, no one claims that they were all squeezed into one train.” -> Right: as far as I can tell no one claimed that 400,000 people were put on one train. And your point is…?

    Strawman is a device used by the dishonest, and you have just revealed you are one of them.

    You were citing documents about capacities of 1 trainload, implying something vague, never specifiying what exactly.

    I pointed out that several trainloads came per day, with about 3k per train.

    Nothing at all logistically impossible.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1384. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Those who have tried to find the alleged remains in allegedly known places, but could not, that’s who. LOL

    OK, so nobody I guess?

    > reburied in the same place as they were laughably exhumed from

    Sure, some were, but not all.

    > So show us the alleged immense Jew remains. You cannot because they never existed.

    Actually lots of remains were found.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/05/mass-graves-at-nazi-extermination-camps.html

    • Replies: @Wally
  1385. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Not an argument. Try an argument.

  1386. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    > We kinda’ are.

    We’re not.

    So where did those 320k Hungarian Jews go? Why can’t a single denier answer this question in a sane manner?

    • Replies: @phil
    , @Anonymous
  1387. phil says:
    @Anon

    The document in the Belzec handbook refers to people “crossing the border,” implying that the camp was not very far from the border. AR camps would qualify for this designation.

    They were also conveniently located at places where people could be deloused and change trains from narrow-gauge track to broad-gauge track (as in the USSR). But they had no crematoria.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1388. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > Holocau$t Controversies’ slapped silly lies about their Hungarian Jews lies

    Nope, Graf has failed to locate the 320k missing Hungarian Jews.

    Moreover, Graf is a notorious liar:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/05/jurgen-grafs-lie-about-hungarian-jewish.html

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/busted-jurgen-graf-caught-lying-again.html

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/jrgen-graf-is-liar.html

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/he-sure-is.html

    > Most of them were transferred OUT of Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever.

    Actually about 106,700 Jews were employable acc. to Mattogno (and this corresponds to the mainstream figure derived independently from the Glaser list), and the number constituted, acc. to him, about 1/3 of all Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz. Not quite correct, but still Mattogno confirms the basics – most Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz were unemployable.

    He never explains what happened to them.

    The CODOH Animal Farm is notorious for its censorship: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/02/codoh-forum-that-moderated-itself-to.html

    That’s because its dicktator Jonnie “KL Vershiedene” Hargis has to compensate for his low IQ and non-existent knowledge.

    Here’s more about CODOH:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/search/label/CODOH
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/search/label/Hannover-Hargis

    • Replies: @Wally
  1389. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    > “Whereabouts”? ‘Where they went? LOL

    Sure. Care to answer the question?

    • Replies: @Wally
  1390. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Wrong. Have you read the interview with Gröning in Dee Spiegel Online? If you haven’t the basis for your answer is radically incomplete.

    He did not have any prosecution or jail sentence hanging over his head and the subsequent prosecution was in fact entirely based on his conscientious anti-denialist statements since 1985. To the extent that such considerations have any weight you should consider whether he was making something more like a deathbed statement which the law has long accepted as an exception to the hearsay rule.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @UncommonGround
  1391. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    Once again you are making a basic logical mistake. That he could have such info delivered to him if he wanted doesn’t mean he actually bothered to have it delivered to him.

    Hence Putin is not a primary source on the topic, and cannot be relied on without knowing his sources.

    Indeed, we know that the claim is false from the basic available documents (we don’t need some “secret files”, all is open source).

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @annamaria
  1392. phil says:
    @Anon

    Most were transited through Birkenau to other camps. At the end of the war there were Hungarian Jews in 386 camps.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1393. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    Nobody cares.

    You are trying to distract from your inability to provide a single name of a Jews transited through the AR camps to the “Russian East”.

    Remember – 1000$ per name.

    Carpe diem.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/07/challenge-to-supporters-of-revisionist.html

    • Replies: @phil
  1394. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    For your consideration….

    A. WTC 7 was dealt with later by the commission.

    B. The idea that WTC 7 (which BTW was not insured for updated insurance when WTCs 1 and 2 were) was part of a scheme meant to be blamed on Al Qaeda makes so little sense that it argues against the non Arab conspiracy theories. Who was going to plan for an all day fire which was caused by burning bits of other buildings hitting it after hijacked planes flown by recently trained jihadists flew planes that were not directed at WTC 7.

    C. The mistake in the BBC broadcast is everyday stuff to anyone who has worked under pressure in the media.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1395. Wally says:
    @Anon

    LOL.

    How Historian Rees Falsifies and Invents, by Panagiotis Heliotis : https://codoh.com/library/document/4917/?lang=en

    Oskar Groning – ‘I saw the gas chambers…’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7622

    He Loves Children, By Jett Rucker : https://codoh.com/library/document/3775/?lang=en

    aerial / ground photos debunk Oskar Groening Auschwitz fraud: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9484

    http://www.codoh.com

  1396. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    The gauge change thing is nonsense:

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2018/06/dusseldorf-to-minsk-via-malkinia.html

    As for crossing border, that’s what Reuter was told by Höfle at first (it was just the beginning of the camp), apparently due to secrecy concerns. Marrus et al. give further context – 4 days later Reuter wrote to Türk that the final destination was still unknown, and that there was a sealed off camp near Belzec and 60 SS-men had arrived.

    10 days later Türk, when asked about the fate of some prominent Jewish person, answered that there would be no sense in inquiring about it and that “to put down the details here in writing is not advisable”. That is, Türk and presumably Reuter finally learned the true purpose of the camp. Otherwise there would have been no problem inquiring about the fate of the deportees.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=IVB87wHYrQ0C&pg=PA251&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Hence the Reuter memo doesn’t help the deniers.

    So where exactly did they go? What was the final destination, if not Belzec?

    Let’s see the evidence.

    • Replies: @phil
    , @Erebus
    , @Wally
  1397. bj says:
    @crimson2

    Nobody at this open, runny sore of a website is interested in historical accuracy. Ron Unz’s historians also write treatises on crop circles and “Newton’s Forgotten Lunar Theory.” His commenters are celibate, grey-dicked miserable sacks of shit who write hundreds of thousands of words about how the Jews are oppressing them in comments sections across the syphilitic taint of the internet. Ron is an anti-semitie with the charisma of an ebola outbreak who would believe any moronic book he read as long as it blamed the Jews for something bad. crimson2

    Just know, as you and you lonely and impotent buddies are fondling your Reich memorabilia–your Eva Braun piss bottles and your Klaus Barbie nipple clamps–that you will always be laughingstock losers. Sure, one of you nutjobs will strangle a poor woman who won’t touch your diseased genitals every now and then, but that will literally be the most powerful your movement will ever be again. If you don’t believe me, start wearing your swastika panties out on the street. crimson2

    Tens of millions died in WWII,

    From terror bombing, starvation, typhus, combat, massacres……..

    It is blood libel for Jews to stand on the graves,

    Of tens of million of dead and demand deification

    Of proportionate Jewish suffering and loss.

    What makes Hungarian Jews so special?

    Look in the mirror dude……you are a ranting raving lunatic!

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1398. @bj

    ‘“My crime is I wanted to remain a German in a thoroughly anti-German age.” Ernst Zundel’

    I’ll grant Ernst Zundel was a fine man. His motives appear to be admirable.

    That doesn’t mean he was right.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1399. Wally says:
    @Anon

    “Hannover’? Oh yeah, that guy that posts at CODOH who has been said to be about 12 different guys …LOL He does rock, however. And my my, Jews do get weird sexual obsessions for imaginary people.

    Indeed, the CODOH Forum which has simple, no name calling, no dodging guidelines for dummies like ‘holocaust controversies’?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

    [MORE]

    Indeed, the CODOH Forum which has this?
    name a specific “holocaust” topic censored / banned here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7322

    Or these?
    Note to Andrew Mathis / Thames Darwin: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9425
    BTW, I’m told that Mathis is not banned, he can post whenever. Oops!!
    and:
    Note to Roberto Muehlenkamp: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11224
    and:
    another note to Roberto on ‘dodging’ challenges: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11340
    and:
    note to JonDoug / then JonDoug threatens Moderator: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=

    note to AshesAreBurning (Andrew Mathis): https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2069
    and:
    note to David: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=872

    There are more explanations and reminders there about the simple CODOH guidelines to be view. Everything is up front. Those guideline require that everyone back up their claims, Zionists do not like that one bit.

    Hey! Here’s an entire list of one the Zionist ‘holocaust controversies’ guys, Andrew Mathis, which take the reader to some of his allegedly “censored” claims where he is simply crushed, in his own words and my how he now regrets it.
    More on their own completely uncensored posts and the laughable responses they make coming up.

    Anyway, here’s ‘holo, controversies’ Andrew Mathis in his own words taken to the wood shed:

    See the threads below where Andrew Mathis, aka: Thames Darwin has posted and utterly lost, some examples of the beat down:

    Alleged & laughable “mass graves” according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9414

    ‘Andrew Mathis on Dachau, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Treblinka’ : http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9228

    Mathis who also posts as ‘Thames Darwin’, gets shot down: Anecdotal evidence & “holocaust survivors”: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9238

    holocaust’ denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2816

    ‘Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP’s Andrew Mathis’ bogus article’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=284

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

    Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

    ‘Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=254

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control’ :http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2498

    ‘Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526

    ‘holocaust’ History Project to unveil section on Treblinka’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=280

    Industry’s Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania :http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345

  1400. crimson2 says:
    @Heros

    I don’t think anyone has been called a nazi yet by the wizzer of oz yet having observed the dancing israelis or building 7 collapsing with free fall acceleration.

    Ah, you see, truthers can simply be complete morons. Sure, all Nazis are morons, but not all morons are Nazis.

    Crimson2 really is the poster child for this. Every comment he uses jew dagger-in-the-back words like nazi, cesspool, scum and every other derogatory jewish word

    Did I hurt your precious feelings? You slander an entire people with utter bullshit and you run crying to Mutti when you get a few insults slung at you? That’s rather pathetic.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Heros
  1401. phil says:
    @Anon

    Page 104 of the Belzac handbook: The official “stated that he could accept 4-5 transports of 1,000 Jews to the terminal station Bezec [Belzac] daily. These Jews would cross the border and never return to the General Gouvernement” [Polish area under German control].

  1402. utu says:

    The speculation that 320k of Hungarian Jews somehow ended up in the USSR but nobody has seen them reminds me of the story of Soviet denial with respect to their mass murder of Polish POWs.

    In 1941 when Polish government restored relationship with USSR and began to create armed forces there from Polish POW’s in the USSR it kept inquiring Soviet authorities about the missing Polish officers. Supposedly Stalin was answering that the officers could not be located because they escaped from the Soviet Union probably to Manchuria. And if it was not for Germans who in 1943 found the mass graves in Katyn the story of Manchurian would continued as a part of the vats repertoire of of lies of Soviet apologists and dupes whom one can still meet here around Saker, Karlin and Martyanov blogs.

  1403. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    No, those were from the 110k employble Jews.

    Please tell us what happened to the 320k unemployable Jews.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1404. @Anon

    ‘…6. Too bad that Putin’s claim is pure bunk…’

    Putin’s claim was impure bunk. It’s inaccurate to claim or imply Bolshevism was somehow a Jewish plot. However, Jews were wildly overrepresented in the movement…and I think some of its spectacular murderousness can be traced to a visceral Jewish antagonism towards the Russian peasantry.

  1405. Anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Question is simple: where exactly were the 800k Jew deported to Treblinka deported to?

    And why can’t the deniers name a single name of a Jew deported to the “Russian East” through the AR camps, even for 1000$ per name?

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/07/challenge-to-supporters-of-revisionist.html

    • Replies: @j2
  1406. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Not an argument

    Correct, but there’s nothing to argue against.

    You’ve said:

    Remains scattered around, Soviets found a thick layer of ashes on the nearby roads.

    – (No links to data or sources.)

    – (No logic to explain why should anyone buy this empty claim from an “Anon”.)

    …so I laughed and gave you a funny meme. Questions?

  1407. @Genrick Yagoda

    ‘…I am surprised that we don’t read daily about Jews bursting into flames in New York when they are exposed to smokers, who of necessity are outdoors when they need to have a cigarette…’

    This would explain the crusade against smoking in public places. Should we look into who was behind that?

    Or are we afraid to know?

  1408. Wally says:

    ‘Holocaust Controversies’ Roberto Muehlenkamp utterly crushed in his feeble attempts to debate informed Revisionists at CODOH..

    See his own words, post after post, yet he “claims we was censored at CODOH”. LOL !!

    [MORE]

    The Industry’s Roberto Muehlenkamp posts more fake ‘holocaust’ photos / Babi Yar http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11315
    and:
    The Industry’s Roberto Muehlenkamp’s ‘corpse hauling Treblinka excavator’ / Seriously?: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11262
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp and ‘The Industry’ say millions of Jew bones were ground up ‘bone crushing machine’, LOL’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11263
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp & ‘Holocaust’ Industry cite incinerator patent application as proof of impossible cremation numbers: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11266
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp challenged on his claim of ‘crime site investigations’ for Belzec & Treblinka: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11277
    and:
    Industry’s Roberto Muehlenkamp cites debunked liar Henryk Tauber as proof of Auschwitz ‘gas chambers’ !!: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11279
    and:
    spokesman Roberto Muehlenkamp says “confessions” of Kurt Gerstein proves ‘holocaust’ / seriously?: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11282
    and:
    Holocaust Industry’s Roberto Muehlenkamp says “eyewitness” Bendel is proof of ‘holocaust’: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11297
    and:
    ‘Holocaust Industy’s’ Roberto Muehlenkamp cites Yankel Wiernik as proof of extermination of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka !!: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11271
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on Sobibor again, this time by Thomas Kues.: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11284
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp & his Holocaust Industry say “eyewitness” Bennahmias is proof of ‘holocaust’ / Yes they do.: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11308
    and:
    Carlo Mattogno demolishes Roberto ‘sardine pack’ Muehlenkamp & those like him.: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11322
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp claims ‘Heinrich May Report on Chelmno’ / So let’s see it.: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11324
    and:
    Roberto Muehlenkamp & the Indu$try’s bizarre photo claim of alleged massive Chelmno human remains: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11333
    and:
    “Holocaust Industry’s” Roberto Muehlenkamp sees thousands of dead Jews where there are none at Semeliškes: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11344
    and:
    Industry’s Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345
    and:
    note to Roberto on claimed ‘Hydrokop’ report: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11230
    and:
    Paid ‘holocaust’ Enforcer & Promoter Roberto Muehlenkamp believes liar Filip Mueller proves the ‘holocau$t’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=

    http://www.codoh.com

  1409. @Bronson

    ‘Back in the 90′s (I think it was) the LDS Church (Mormons) decided to do what they call “Temple Work” for supposed holocaust victims. Temple Work is a ceremony where those who were forcibly departed from this mortal coil can be given a second chance at redemption (or so the Mormons believe). So, all in all, who would it hurt? They were looking into lists of (supposed) victims, and the Jews went berserk – so the LDS Church put the kibosh on Temple Work for holocaust “victims”…’

    The official story was that the Mormons also held that these victims could be converted to Mormonism in the afterlife — and that’s what the Jews objected to.

    It was all kind of fun. Sadly, the Mormons didn’t stick to their guns — at least, not publically.

  1410. bj says:

    (((Jews))) discuss how to subvert Poland and destroy the Polish people

  1411. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    But it does mean that you cannot show us the alleged immense human remains said to located in enormous mass graves in allegedly known locations. LOL

    It’s amazing how easy it is shoot down True Believers of the ‘6M’ propaganda & religion, just ask for proof.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1412. @annamaria

    ‘“That some have made improbable claims about it does nothing to demonstrate that it didn’t happen at all.”
    1. Some dishonest people have been making good money on the holo-biz
    2. Some decent people were jailed for making an honest research into the WWII.
    Thee Jewish Power has been undermining the freedom of information and the First Amendment.
    Why are so so glib about these violations? — The dishonesty has become the accepted feature of your tribe…’

    I’ll make two points about this. First, it’s modestly amusing that you appear to think I’m Jewish — others have ‘called me out’ as an anti-semite. That last is getting to be debatable — but I’m certainly not Jewish.

    The second point is that — as I mentioned before — you don’t seem to be able to reason with any precision. Neither one of your two points above actually does anything to demonstrate that the Holocaust didn’t occur.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1413. @bj

    ‘The American authorities estimate 13,000,000 or 14,000,000 Germans were ethnically cleansed in Prussia, Silesia. Pomerania, etc. Six million of these displayed men, women, and children never arrived in Germany. Do the Jews stand on the burned, raped, and murdered bodies of six million Germans and shout HOLOCAUST?’

    I think your figures for total deaths are exaggerated, but have it your way.

    So what? The Mongols are estimated to have slaughtered twenty million Chinese. That doesn’t somehow demonstrate that the Holocaust didn’t occur.

    If you are arguing against the utter, perfect uniqueness and moral singularity of the Holocaust, I’m your man — but it did happen.

  1414. @cassandra

    ‘Very thought-provoking: do you have favorite sources for this episode?’

    Not that I can cite at the moment, I’m afraid. However, I have run across various references — by and large, the Jews of territories Russia acquired in 1939-40 do seem to have welcomed the Russians more than the gentile population, many of the commissars were themselves Jewish, and many local Jews seem to have taken full advantage of the new dispensation to improve their situation.

    Hence, the very visible outbreak of murderous anti-semitic retaliation that broke out across these same territories when the Germans rolled in in 1941. It’s usually presented as if the Lithuanians or something just suddenly started killing Jews because now they had an opportunity. On consideration, of course, such an explanation is spectacularly inadequate. Why hadn’t they taken advantage at any point in the preceding three centuries?

    ‘I suspect, as with most history, that an accurate accounting will leave no one beyond reproach.’

    Indeedero. Almost instinctively, we try to reduce history to a moral fable, with a discernable plot, clear heros and villains, and a proper conclusion.

    It’s not that way. It’s a mess, a random walk, a tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing. It’s mighty interesting to analyze, but we have to resist the temptation to make it aesthetically and morally satisfying. All that’s happening primarily inside our own heads.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1415. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Yes we are. Don’t change the subject. Your “proof” was either forged or completely absent.

    You’re in the court of public, goy, opinion and you’re failing. Empty distractions. labels, and worn-out lies can’t save you.

    It’s all over for the “chosenites”. Welcome to the (real) new dawn.

  1416. Wally says:
    @Anon

    LENGTHY, but worth it, select ‘MORE’ is necessary.

    I posted my counter arguments, you ignore them. Your problem, but everyone can see it.

    Prufer simply stated the facts when he was interrogated. see my comment #1332

    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious “Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers
    By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

    [MORE]

    That link is it? That your proof for the alleged immense human remains in known locations? LOL

    We see no such remains in that link only claimed searches which obviously found nothing, or we would be seeing the remains 24/7/
    Actually show us verifiable excavated areas of claimed known locations, and actually show us the immense human remains that are alleged. You cannot.

    Well, this IS what they found at Sobibor, where supposedly ‘250,000 Jew are buried’:

    What? 4-5 skeletons from who knows when & who knows if they are even Jews. LOL LOL !!
    from:
    the usual big bluff / True Believer ‘Nessie’ pleads his case, but without proof / + Sobibor, Treblinka: : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10356

    see: The Rudolf Report, 4. History of Forensic Examinations of Auschwitz: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

    “Gas chamber” discovered at Sobibor”, fraud: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8887
    and:
    ‘Israel says Nazi camp excavations unearth link to Anne Frank’, LOL : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10890

    Sobibor Jew corpses claimed here, so why don’t they excavate, verify, & show the world? !!!: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10610

    Holo. Controv. Roberto Muehlenkamp cracks under pressure – admits Kola’s & Haimi’s Sobibor fake excavation work not proven to be documented: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11276

    Sobibor excavation debunked: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57

    Interview debunks fake excavations : Graf Jürgen : https://codoh.com/library/document/92/?lang=en

    excavations: Communiqué on our response to “Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard” : https://codoh.com/library/document/4503/?lang=en

    tons more here: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=excavations

    http://www.codoh.com

  1417. Hats off to Ron Unz for having the courage, and making the effort, to expose the elephant in the room.
    His analysis reeks of common sense.

  1418. This is the post Wally was born to comment on.

  1419. bj says:

    Is Your (Holocaust) Memory Just an Illusion?

    • Replies: @bj
  1420. Erebus says:
    @Otterboy

    What astonished me most when I concluded that the Holocaust was a top-to-bottom fabrication, was that such an astonishing collection of rank impossibilities could be disseminated through the populace and accepted as Truth. Though it shook much of what I thought I knew about recent history, my reaction was to treat it as outlier. They could never get away with it now, I thought.

    I was soon disabused of that notion. A few years later, 9/11 came along and, convinced it was an extraordinary demolition within hours of the event, I went on to watch a fascinating process unfold step by step. Physical impossibilities, even absurdities became “Truths” whose socio-political truth value grew to not only compel America and its hangers-on to go to war, but to set a radical domestic plan in motion to destroy the foundations of America’s vaunted constitution. All in little more than a heartbeat. They not only could “get away with it now”, they got away with it with less effort than the Holocaust meme required.

    9/11™ also served to place the Holocaust™ in its context. Namely, on the spectrum of narratives handed down by elites to peoples from time immemorial to keep both in their respective places. Even the deepest, society-defining narratives don’t require a firm grounding in physical reality to be effective. A tangential connection is good enough, and that fact yields a great deal of power for those who understand and wield it. For me, the real eye-opener of the 9/11 and Holocaust narratives was that that’s all it takes.

    It turns out that humans’ aversion to uncertainty drives them to care not what narrative defines their world, so long as somebody gives them a narrative, and it gets defined.

    That is, surely a form of madness, and it’s taken dangerous turns in the past. We now have a growing, fact-free “Hate Russia” meme that’s framing public discourse in ways that look to eventually develop into a “Fight Russia” meme. If/when we get there, the good planet Earth will be a very dangerous place.

    PS: Thanks for some thought and deja-vu provoking posts.

  1421. phil says:
    @Anon

    When the Germans found the bodies of over 4,000 Polish officers murdered by the Soviets at Katyn, they invited experts from several countries to inspect the site of the crime and to carry out autopsies. They then published a detailed forensic report about the massacre. They did the same thing after discovering the bodies of over 8,000 Ukrainians shot by the Bolshevists at Vinnitsa before the war. Do you know of a single forensic report published by the Soviets about mass graves containing the bodies of Jews who had been murdered by the Germans on the Eastern front?

  1422. bj says:
    @bj

    Is the The Holocaust narrative projection?

    The eternal Jewish victim is the narrative.

    Projection is the mechanism of The Holocaust fiction!

    Projection Is A Defense Mechanism To Avoid Taking Responsibility

  1423. crimson2 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard? Does *anybody* seriously believe something so totally ridiculous? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to claim that the technologically-advanced Germans invented a teleportation machine and beamed all the bodies to Venus?

    This is a great example of a (supposedly) smart person falling into a cognitive bias–argument from personal incredulity.

    So what is so hard to believe? Is it very hard to believe that a government that is committing war crimes would want to conceal those crimes? We all can agree that of course war criminals wish to conceal their crimes. And the worse the war crimes, the more the perpetrators will want to conceal them.

    So really, Unz is arguing that the effort was far too great, so great that it would be absurd to even consider covering up the crimes. Not that it was a waste and a mistake to cover them up, but that it was obvious that it would be a consequential mistake. But this overestimates how difficult the task was. The Germans had (and used) prison labor. They sacrificed very little production to cover up war crimes.

    And they REALLY wanted to keep their genocide secret. They knew what they would face personally. They knew how history would look upon them. The Nazis in this thread whine that Jews have taken over the world wit the the Holocaust story. But all of a sudden, the story isn’t important enough to conceal?

    Clearly Unz didn’t think about this for even a second. Or, if he did, he simple gurgled “Jews are gross liars!” and started typing.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Art
  1424. phil says:
    @Anon

    Yes, let’s see the evidence. There’s not much in the way of remains (or gas chambers) at the site.

  1425. Erebus says:
    @Anon

    So where exactly did they go? What was the final destination, if not Belzec?

    The Defence is never obliged to solve the Prosecution’s case. I has only to show that it fails to remove reasonable doubt.

    In a historical case such as this, if it didn’t happen according to the present history, it happened according to some other. What that other is is what historians should be allowed to uncover without threat of legal/financial/physical sanction. Revisionism starts with saying “I doubt it”. What happens after that should be routine historical research and debate.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  1426. cassandra says:
    @Anon

    > Simply asserting the points of contention that you’re trying to prove doesn’t make a convincing argument
    Correct, which is why Holocaust denial fails.
    > “The deportation is copiously documented, there is no reasonable doubt about it.”
    There’s simply nothing you can do against this fact. It’s documented, it’s an objective fact that it happened.

    It’s the credibility of “the documentation that exists” that’s under examination, so invoking the existence of documentations as proof of its veracity is circular reasoning. Speaking for myself, at least, I have no explicit “denial” agenda (I got involved here only to examine dykstra’s objection), rather, an effort to separate the wheat from the chaff in a field saturated with self-serving propaganda and especially censorship. At the end of the day, the burden of proof is on those providing the documentation, not with its critics.

  1427. bj says:

    Narcissistic Projection & Tactics

  1428. Erebus says:
    @crimson2

    Clearly Unz didn’t think about this for even a second. Or, if he did, he simple gurgled “Jews are gross liars!” and started typing.

    No, blockhead. He did, and at a level you seem unable to reach.

    Leaving aside such questions as “How would one go about keeping a genocide that didn’t happen secret?” or “Why would one keep…?”, there’s the physical absurdity of digging up 1000s of decaying corpses, burning them, and scattering the remains without leaving a trace even of disturbed earth.

    Archaeologists can tell you what animal was roasted on a 100,000 yr old campfire, but 1000’s of recently burned Jewish bodies are untraceable. What claptrap. Ron’s suggestion of beaming them to Venus is no less absurd, though I’d warrant that the Moon is more likely. At least Wiz’s dumb soldier Schweik could see which way to point the teleporter’s beam without a referencing a star chart.

    You, crimson2, are the Deniers’ best friend. A perfect foil.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @crimson2
  1429. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Thanks, it is just so that after the war Nazis claimed that they took the Jews to the area of the Soviet Union, and they claimed this when their accusers, the judges, were largely from the Soviet Union. If the claim is not true, then how stupid must you be to claim an obvious falsehood to the exact people who would know if they received the Jews or not. Nazis could have invented a better story, like that the Jews died of diseases, if they wanted to hide having killed them.

    We have Jews who most probably were not killed in Operation Reinhard camps, but in some way most of them disappeared. There is this so called real Franke Gricksch report, which describes Operation Reinhard as a robbing operation, not killing. That fits to Göbbels writing in his diary, 60% must be liquidated, assuming that liquidation means the same as it meant to Hertz, turning property into money. These Jews with no papers and no money would be given out to Zionists as useless, while 40% could be used for work. Zionists wanted them as they built Israel, but they could not be used straight away as infra had to be built.

    And there are the 320,000 Hungarian Jews who also disappeared. Assuming they were not killed by Nazis, since the evidence for such mass killings is very weak, where are they? I am grateful to Anon for pointing out the problem of these Jews. The upper bound for Jews who died in Auschwitz is 400,000. This I can prove and it is beyond any question. Assuming 60,000 died of registered Jewish inmates, there is left 340,000. This fits to 320,000 missing Hungarian Jews, but the problem is that then Auschwitz was not a killing factory before these Hungarian Jews, 1944. Why would Nazis have killed these Jews in Auschwitz if they did not earlier kill Jews in Auschwitz? They were losing the war. They had no gain from killing these Jews. So, the Jews were not killed, but they disappeared. They must have got to the Soviet Union, because that is what Nazis claimed. They were handed over to Zionists by Nazis, Zionists took them to Soviets. If was exodus.

    Have you ever though about Chelmno. 100,000 children from Lodz ghetto were taken there and as the story goes, gassed in vans. Naturally the site has not been excavated, there is a memorial. The curious think is that the Jew, who got the mothers of Lodz ghetto to give their children, was a person strongly involved in Palestine kibbuzes. What kind of a mother gives a child to be killed? Many mothers did send their children in war time to a safe place. Should one not check where the kibbutz children came from?

    About exodus. How long was the Promised People in the wilderness before they were allowed to the Promised Land? 40 years. The main Russian exodus started 1989. So, for 40 years, from 1948 to 1988 the main part of these Eastern European Jews were in a Communistic country. And after this happened, Communisms was allowed to fall. Natives never supported it. All of this is Judeo-Masonic messianic plan and it realizes prophesies from the Old testament.

  1430. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Eichmann trial – Session No. 86 , 81 , 41 , 51 , 53

    I just discovered this Life interview with Eichmann, in which he discusses the deportation and fate of the Hungarian Jews:

    Eichmann’s “Interview” in Life Magazine
    Source: Life, Vol. 49, No. 22, November 28, 1960

    All told, we succeeded in processing about half a million Jews in Hungary. I once knew the exact number that we shipped to Auschwitz, but today I can only estimate that it was around 350,000 in a period of about four months. But, contrary to legend, the majority of the deportees were not gassed at all but put to work in munitions plants. That is why there are thousands of Jews happily alive today who are included in the statistical totals of the “liquidated.” Besides those we sent to Auschwitz, there were thousands and thousands who fled, some secretly, some with our connivance. It was child’s play for a Jew to reach relative safety in Rumania if he could muster the few pengö to pay for a railroad ticket or an auto ride to the border. There were also 200,000 Jews left in a huge ghetto when the Russians arrived, and thousands more waiting to emigrate illegally to Palestine or simply hiding out from the Hungarian Gendarmerie.

    http://madness-visible.blogspot.com/2011/02/eichmanns-interview-in-life-magazine.html Archived link: http://archive.is/wl8On#selection-693.1-693.938

    Life Magazine, November 28, 1960 – Carroll Baker

    Table of Contents

    Eichmann’s story
    World War, 1939-1945 (War criminals), Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) [p.] 20

    https://www.oldlifemagazines.com/november-28-1960-life-magazine.html

    Source: https://www.oldlifemagazines.com/november-28-1960-life-magazine.html Archived link: http://archive.is/MIer1

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1431. Wally says:
    @Erebus

    Actually the missing corpses represent an alleged 6,000,000 Jews AND an alleged 5,000,000 others !!!

    11,000,000 allegedly murdered, but the alleged immense remains are nowhere to be found, and they are claimed to be in KNOWN locations.

    Now imagine the populations of either Paris 10.9M, London 9M, or Bangkok 10.5M just disappearing.
    http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1432. j2 says:
    @Alden

    “Your theory that Hitler sent Jews to Russia where zionists under the protection of Stalin trained and moved then to Israel is what Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandel claims.”

    I claim no originality. In general, every problem that is controversial or hot potato (like for instance the Millennium Prize Problems by Clay in mathematics) has almost certainly been correctly solved many times, but the solution is not accepted, usually not published and everybody pretends that the solution does not exist or is wrong. The reason for this is that there is some powerful party, which does not want the problem solved. In some case it is that the party wants the problem solved only by certain people to have the fame where they want it, in other cases the party has some other reason why the truth should not come out. Originality is a very stupid goal in finding the truth in history: certainly the truth has been known to many. The truth always pops up every now and then. It is only you yourself who do not know the truth, so the goal is to check it to yourself.

  1433. Wally says:
    @Anon

    See my comment #1404 for that answer.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1434. Wally says:

    ON MISSING OUTBOUND TRAIN RECORDS

    The general numbers of those transported to various German work sites and to falsely alleged “extermination camps” have usually been determined by inbound train records.

    However, outbound train rain records from those same sites, which of course were necessarily kept, especially with the vital need to know where all the trains and their loads generally were during critical war time, HAVE DISAPPEARED.
    They’ve either been hidden away or most likely, simply destroyed. We obviously know why.

    see:
    Inbound train records, but no outbound records.: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2355
    exc.:

    The Believers are big on the ‘where did they go’ reply. This canard is used for transports to labor camps. The story says that new arrivals that went unregistered were immediately gassed. The lack of records of outbound trains, the Believer’s claim, is proof of their gassing. Leaving aside for the moment the scientific impossibility of the gassings as alleged, their story just doesn’t hold up.
    points:

    We know there are plenty of train transport records TO various camps, we have none which show trains LEAVING. Why is that?
    – Didn’t the trains go somewhere after their trips to the alleged ‘death camps’?
    – Does anyone really think the Germans didn’t keep records of where their trains went, full or empty during vital war time need for trains.
    – Would the Germans deliberately destroy their records of outbound trains while not destroying the records of inbound trains … so they could incriminate themselves? LOL

    The lack of these outgoing train records is damning to the story.

    Another nail in in ‘holocaust’ story coffin.
    http://www.codoh.com

  1435. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “> You are so ignorant on this topic that if I were you, I would simply shut up
    Please note that ad hominems and insults are not arguments. Try to formulate an argument. Take your time.”

    Being accused of ignorance on a topic is not an ad hominems argument and in your case it is correct.

    “> If 1.1M died in Auschwitz, then it implies that 1M Jews died in Auschwitz.
    That’s exactly what I wrote, and that’s exactly what you clearly did not know until I pointed it out to you. You actually wrote: “As this number is much smaller than the official estimate 1.1M”, comparing your estimated Jewish toll to the overall accepted toll.”

    No, you did not write so, you tried to imply that there were many non-Jews. Very commonly a figure 1.2M or 1.2M is given for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz. The issues is that any figure for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz which is larger than 400,000 is provably wrong.

    “> No, it is fundamentally false.
    How come you can’t show that it’s false, then?´”

    The problem with you is that you apparently do not know basic arithmetics. If only 2.7M West and Western Polish Jews could have died according to Yad Vashem figures, and the sum of Jewish death tolls in West and Western Poland is about 3.3M, then more Jews died than there were. That shows that the official story is fundamentally false as it leads to a mathematical contradiction. I have shown it. Only you do not seem to understand, but that is your personal problem with mathematics. Either you can do addition and subtraction, or you cannot.

    “> Soviets were in Treblinka but what makes you think the Jews could not be transported to Treblinka? Obviously you do not consider all possibilities, such as that they were handed to Soviets.
    Well, they never were, so what is your point again?”

    And where is your proof that they were not. Germans left inmates to Auschwitz alive, so handing them to Soviets alive. This shows that you are wrong in “they never were”. Yes, they did.

    “> These Jews could have been killed, freed, passed to Soviets, taken to whatever place.
    They could not have been freed (no reason to deport them in the first place), none were passed to the Soviets, and if you claim they were taken to whatever place, you have to specify where and what your evidence is.
    So, any explanation of the fate of these 320k Jews?”

    You say they were not freed and argue that if they were to be freed, why to deport them. In the same way, if they were to be killed, why to deport them in the first place. You incorrectly claim that no Jews were passed to Soviets, as some Jews in Auschwitz were passed alive to Soviets, and of the Hungarian Jews we do not know. I do not have to specify where, you have to specify where the Jews were killed, with what method and why there is no trace of them. My explanation for these 320,000 Jews is that Nazis found them useless and as they had a deal with Zionists, they gave the Jews to Zionists, who took them to the Soviet Union for the 40 years in wilderness that is a part of exodus to the Promised Land. This is perfectly logical, the Jews could have been kept in some gulag. You instead have to show that they were killed. You have highly questionable witness statements, and nothing else. Your problem is that a provable upper bound for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 400,000. If 320,000 Hungarian Jews were killed in addition to 60,000 registered Jewish deaths, then this is the death toll. That would mean that Nazis did not kill Jews before the Hungarian Jews in Auschwitz. They were already losing the war. What in the world made them decide to kill these Jews when they had so far not killed Jews in Auschwitz? You see, your position is illogical.

    To clarify your thoughts, do as every real researcher would do: work out two scenarios, one where the Hungarian Jews are killed, one where Nazis passed useless Jews to Zionists, who took them to Soviet hands. Then list all facts that support each theory. When you honestly do this you will see that the second theory is much more probable. It explains the Haavara agreement, Eichmann, Hitlers underline in a book in his library, Hitler’s Jewish friends, Kalischer’s prophecy, Masonic part in Zionism, Sebottendorf being initiated to Mizraim and Theosophy, metabolic subsistence portions of 1300 kcal/day in camps, everything will be clear. The first theory only works by the silly assumption that all non-Jews are jew-hating murderers. There is no logic in anything, only Hitler wanted to kill Jews.

  1436. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “even for 1000$ per name?”

    Any person with any common sense understands that this promise is empty. They are not going to pay a single dime. Instead they are going to sue you in the court for lots of money if you try to present them proofs. No goy is so dumb as to fall for this.

  1437. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    This actually adds to the credibility and authenticity of the interview, in my opinion:

    Journalist Who Tape-recorded Eichmann Confessions is Ex-nazi Officer

    December 1, 1960

    The journalist who tape-recorded in Argentina the confessions of Adolf Eichmann, Nazi expert on Jewish affairs who directed the mass-killing of 6,000,000 Jews in Europe–and sold these confessions to Life magazine in New York–is a Dutchman turned Nazi. He is reported to have been sentenced to death for war crimes in Belgium, and is now under indictment for war crimes in Holland, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency established today.

    Life magazine–which publishes in this week’s issue the second of a two-part serial of Eichmann’s confessions, in which he admits committing the crimes for which he is to face trial in Israel next March–identified the man from whom it bought the Eichmann tape-recorded statements as a German journalist, Wilhelm Sassen.
    […]
    “Whatever a full revelation of Sassen’s war-role may show. however, the authenticity of the Eichmann papers has been established through six months of thorough documentation, to the complete satisfaction of the editors of Life.”

    https://www.jta.org/1960/12/01/archive/journalist-who-tape-recorded-eichmann-confessions-is-ex-nazi-officer and http://pdfs.jta.org/1960/1960-12-01_227.pdf

    In spite of all our efforts Commandant Hoess at Auschwitz often complained about the condition of the Jews who arrived from Hungary. This proves that Auschwitz was not primarily a death camp. If Hoess simply sent the Jews into the oven, it would not have made any difference to him. He would not have complained to General Pohl, his chief, when a few corpses were lying around in the cars because people had given them too little to eat or drink. And Pohl would certainly not have asked to see me, making the complaints known to me in rather blunt terms. I replied of course that I was not really responsible because the Hungarian government had arranged the details of the loading.

    As the transport trains rolled into Auschwitz, sometimes bringing as many as 10,000 units a day, the camp staff had to work day and night. I was on close, comradely terms with Hoess and he told me he could not understand why I showed absolutely no consideration for him and his staff. But how could I? I was just as limited a specialist in my own sector as he was in his. Yet I liked to visit him. He lived with his wife and children in a five-room house on the camp grounds. It was a homey place, clean and simple and furnished in SS-style natural wood.

    I remember clearly the first time he guided me around the camp. He showed me everything, and at the end he took me to a grave where the corpses of the gassed Jews lay piled on a strong iron grill. Hoess’s men poured some inflammable liquid over them and set them on fire. The flesh stewed like stew meat. The sight made such an impression on me that today, after a dozen years, I can still see that mountain of corpses in front of me.

    Hoess may have seen disgust in my face, but I spoke to him sternly: “When I see your corpses, I think of those charred German bodies in the air-raid shelters in Berlin.”

    Once the deportations to Auschwitz were running smoothly, I turned to concentrate on negotiations with the Jewish political community officials in Budapest. In this I was carrying out the second basic objective of Reichsführer Himmler: to arrange if possible for a million Jews to go free in exchange for 10,000 winterized trucks, with trailers, for use against the Russians on the Eastern Front.

    Life, Vol. 49, No. 22, November 28, 1960, pp. 110 – 112

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/trials/profiles/inhumanity.html and http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/trials/profiles/mountain.html

    Full two-part interview available here:

    The Confession of Adolf Eichmann

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/trials/profiles/confession.html

    Life Magazine, December 5, 1960 – Pro football kickoff

    Table of Contents

    Eichmann and the duty of man
    Adolf Eichmann; 1906-1962, World War, 1939-1945 (War criminals), Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) [p.] 46

    https://www.oldlifemagazines.com/december-05-1960-life-magazine.html

    Source: https://www.oldlifemagazines.com/december-05-1960-life-magazine.html Archived link: http://archive.is/QLs4y

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
    , @bj
  1438. @crimson2

    ‘Did I hurt your precious feelings? You slander an entire people with utter bullshit and you run crying to Mutti when you get a few insults slung at you? That’s rather pathetic.’

    How does it ‘slander’ anyone to make an indefensible claim that the Holocaust didn’t happen?

    I can deny that some huge number of Germans were killed in the deportations at the end of and after the war. Many would find my denial infuriating — but I haven’t slandered anyone.

    I think this notion that Holocaust Denial is somehow slander is just a piece of facile B.S. It’s false, and you may well find it infuriating — but it’s not slander.

    Go ahead. Insist my grandmother is still alive. It’d be bizarre. I might get annoyed. But how on earth is it slander?

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1439. What a great piece on the history of the creation of the the Holocaust. The last time I read something this complete was Joel Hayward’s MA thesis back in the 1990s.

    https://www.joelhayward.org/1991-m-a-thesis

    My conclusion at this time is Lucy Davidowicz is responsible for the creation of the The Holocaust as a proper upper case noun. Yes, there is the Holocaust Kingdom 1965, and The Holocaust 1968, but it wasn’t unti after Davidowicz’ efforts that it became became a term of art.

    Dimensions of the Holocaust 1976 is pretty much the blueprint for what was to become the Holocaust. It was a reaction to Butz’ work, but in strange irony, Holocaust Denial came before The Holocaust itself. The Holocaust before this time didn’t exist in history or reference books.

  1440. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Would you also be so kind to provide any sources, if they are available to you, to the following claims, specifically the claim that “In a sordidly cynical rivalry, Eichmann wanted to beat the “record” set by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle, who had deported the 275,000 residents of the Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka“, since these claims and statements seem and sound fabricated and made up to me. Thank you.

    I just found a passage in the Life Eichmann interview which could actually confirm The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum‘s claim, whose authenticity I doubted. But there is still no mention of Hermann Höfle, etc.:

    In Hungary my basic orders were to ship all Jews out of the country in as short a time as possible. Now, after years of working behind a desk, I had come out into the raw reality of the field. As Müller put it, they had sent me, the “master” himself, to make sure the Jews did not revolt as they had in the Warsaw Ghetto. I use the word “master” in quotation marks because people used it to describe me. I did not use it first.

    Since they had sent the “master”, however, I wanted to act like a master. I resolved to show how well a job could be done when the commander stands 100% behind it. By shipping the Jews off in a lightening operation, I wanted to set an example for future campaigns elsewhere.

    Life, Vol. 49, No. 22, November 28, 1960, pp. 106, 109

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/esg/trials/profiles/warsaw.html

  1441. Heros says:
    @crimson2

    “you run crying to Mutti when you get a few insults slung at you? That’s rather pathetic.”

    Actually, Ron Unz has already deleted one of my comments and edited another because jews like you would go crying to their rabbi.

    The surreptitious editing of the comments sections to remove statements by rabbis that offend jews really help reveal that these AP articles serve as a honey pot. They draw in revisionists who are then exposed to the entire perverted hasbara trolling operation and likely get their IP addresses scraped by jew controlled “intelligence” services across the planet.

    Then when ever a revisionist makes a statement or quotes the secret plans of rabbis, Ron Unz deletes them. Unz feels he has to tip the scales for crybabies like you, likely because of all the satanic murders and torture that jews commit across the planet every day.

    [MORE]

    “1287 Berne, Switzerland Rudolf, a boy, was murdered at Passover in the house of a rich Jew called Matler. jews confessed that he had been crucified; many were put to death. The boy was canonised as a martyr. His name can be found in several martyrologies.

    A stone monument still exists in Berne commemorating the crime. It is called The Fountain of the Child-Devourer, and is now on the Kornhausplatz. It represents a monster, with a jewish countenance, eating a child. The figure wears the Judenbut, the hat prescribed for the jews to wear by decree of the 4th Lateran Council,1215. The monument was first placed in a street of the jews’ quarter as a reminder of the monstrous crime and as a punishment for the whole of Berne jewry. Later, it was removed to its present location.”

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1442. @Colin Wright

    ” On consideration, of course, such an explanation is spectacularly inadequate. Why hadn’t they taken advantage at any point in the preceding three centuries? ”

    Because hardly any government anywhere, as far as I know, ever allowed citizens to mass murder other citizens.
    There of course were pogroms, but, again, as far as I know, any government stopped them as soon as possible.
    About the Lithuanians, in the interregnum before the Germans occupied Lithuania there was no effective government.
    Possibly that Vilnius was seen before WWII as the jewish capital of E Europe was a factor.
    In Poland it was not much different, as Jan Gross describes, Germans stopped the murder of neighbours in the mentioned village.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @HdC
    , @Wally
    , @Wally
  1443. @Yellowford

    After the kingdom of Armenia in 1914 or 1915, forgot, declared war on the Ottoman empire the Armenians in NE Anatolia, the region bordered on Armenia then, even now, I suppose, saw their chance and began an insurrection, in order to join the region with the kingdom.
    If the rebellious Armenians knew this was an allied objective, I do nog know.
    Anyhow, look at the map of the Treaty of Sèvres of 1921 (?) to see that a large Armenian state was planned until Syria.
    Anyhow, the Ottomans suppressed the insurrection, and deported the Armenians from NE Anatolia direction Syria, Aleppo, on foot, there were no roads, in winter.
    This deportation of course caused casualties.
    ‘The Armenians in the Late Ottoman Period’, edited Türkkaya Atatöv, Ankara, 2002.
    Henry Morgenthau, ‘Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, New York, 1918
    Heath W. Lowry, ‘The story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, Istanbul 1990
    Howard M. Sachar, ‘The emergence of the Middle East 1914-1924’, New York, 1969
    Halil Gülbeyaz, ´Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, Vom Staatsgründer zum Mythos’, Berlin 2004

  1444. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
    — Karl Rove

  1445. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    It is amusing that a person that protects the fantastic holo-biz claims and disrespects the expertise of the highly qualified engineers, chemists, and historians dares to accuse others of imprecision of thinking.

    You may not be technically a Jew, but you a Talmudist by your defense of Jewish (financial) interests by any means, including, in this particular case, by supporting the violation of the freedom of information.
    The decent persons were put to jail for the honest research that has offended the profitable holo-biz claims. And yet, Colin Wright is worried about the imprecision of thinking of those who care about the protection of the freedom of speech and freedom of information.

    You have been trying to divert the discussion onto “did or didn’t” the mass murder of Jews occurred. You are also very fond of the semantics of the word “Holocaust.” — Millions of people of different ethnicities died during the WWII. Only one ethnic group made a lucrative business out of the tragedy; the same ethnic group has been supporting the profiteering on the tragedy by assaulting the fundamentals of western civilization — the freedom of information.
    What’s your agenda on this forum?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @L.K
  1446. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Is Winston Churchill good enough for you to speak about the role of Jews in the Bolshevik revolution?
    https://www.mosaisk.com/revolution/Winston-Churchill-Zionism-Versus-Bolshevism.php
    “There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creating of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews.
    It is certainly the very great one; it probably outweighs all others.

    With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews.
    Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders…
    Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate, Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek – all Jews.
    In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astounding.

    And the prominent if not the principal part in the system of terrorism applied by the extraordinary Commissions for combating Counter Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. Table all members NKVD: “at the times of the Red Terror members of an ethnic group representing 80% of the population (Russians) were responsible for 30% of the terror, and in turn members of a group representing 1.8% of the population (Jews) were responsibly for almost 40% of the Terror… This means that statistically, the Jews of the Soviet Union bear 59 times as much responsibility for the Red Terror per capita than the Russian population.”

  1447. @Ron Unz

    But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    That is this story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderaktion_1005

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard?

    I don’t know if it’s the most absurd thing I ever heard. I’m sure it’s in the top 10 though.

    Does *anybody* seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?

    Well, I don’t believe it, but I assume that some people do. It is a sacred narrative finally, so it’s not really constrained by the laws of the physical world any more than the stories in the Bible.

    Granted, we don’t know who really believes and who just says they do. Obviously, more people claim to believe all this than really believe it!

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    , @Hans
  1448. @FKA Max

    ROFLMAO, LOLOL That’s genius level trolling having Magda Goebbels registered as a victim of the Holocaust in Yad Vashem. The holocaust is now high level farce. A better example of the shoddy historiography and the shameless lies behind the Holocaust can’t be found. Thanks for the great laugh what a wretched farce Yad Vashem is. The Jews are the biggest liars in the world.

    I am done with the Holocaust, this was the last straw finding out that Yad Vashem is a load of bollocks.

    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/1/4220

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1449. j2 says:
    @utu

    “Treblinka is East of Auschwitz.
    You speculate that Hungarian Jews (400k or 320k of them) did not end up in Auschwitz, right? So, where did they go? What is your hypothesis?”

    Thanks for your answer. I know where Treblinka and Auschwitz are. After reading Eichmann’s confession, I change the likely scenario. According to Eichmann 200,000 were left to Auschwitz to wait for Soviets and thousands escaped to Romania. Also Eichmann spoke about a deal with Jews of Budapest to have 1M Jews go free in exchange of military transport vehicles. Very clearly the missing Jews were not all killed and burned on rails. There would be signs of it. The capacity of crematories run 24/7 was only some 30,000 in a month, not enough for this task. Outdoor cremation of a so large number leaves traces and requires too much fuel of which there would be traces. If these Jews cannot be found anywhere in the part of the world known to the West, then they ended up to the Soviet Union, which is east of Auschwitz. That is the only possibility.

    “Germans saved Jewish hair.
    You are really getting silly.”

    I see you ignore the many messianic aspects in the creation of Israel. These all point out to an effort to realize the end of the time prophesies in order to justify creation of Israel to orthodox Rabbies. The ones who started the Palestine project were for sure Freemasons and Mizraim was kabbalistic and messianic. They (saint-simonists, a front for Mizraim) even tried to find a female messiah in France in the 19th century to give birth to the Messiah, it failed.
    -Why is it 6M and has been since 1862? 6M is 2/3 of the 9M, which is 2/3 of the people that would return, it is in Zechariah. Naturally there must be an explanation why it is 6M, and this is the most natural one.
    – There had to be persecution, there was. The prophecy of Rabbi Zvi Hirch Kalischer form 1942 was that if Jews have not returned to Palestine by 1939, they will return but with much suffering.
    – Notice that in the exodus the people had to be 40 years in the wilderness, so for 40 years they could not be seen, like from 1948 to 1988. If 1M Jews were taken to the Soviet Union and nothing heard from them, it matches to the 40 years in wilderness.
    – Give a better reason for saving the hair than the prophecy that is both in the New and the Old testament. It is natural that hair is cut, but why to save it, as was done.

  1450. @Erebus

    Ultimately, physical destruction aside, these events are all primarily psy-ops. Orwell vindicated (again).

  1451. @Jonathan Revusky

    It takes 500-600 kg of firewood to cremate a corpse in India and the process lasts at least 6 hrs. The Nazis would have had to deforest the whole of Poland to evaporate their millions of Jews. The whole story is a pile of bullshit 6 million metres high.

  1452. Hans says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Never forget that we’re dealing with the Rosenblatt Phenomenon aka “It Wasn’t a Lie. In My Imagination It Was Real” –

  1453. @Anon

    Have you read the interview with Gröning in Dee Spiegel Online? If you haven’t the basis for your answer is radically incomplete. He did not have any prosecution or jail sentence hanging over his head

    Sorry, I don’t understand what you want to say. He was sentenced to 4 or 5 years prison and wont come from there living as he’s already 96 years old.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1454. geokat62 says:
    @bj

    Jewish David Cole Interviewed By Ernst Zundel.

    Are you sure? No trace of DC that I could find.

    • Replies: @bj
  1455. EugeneGur says:
    @phil

    You apparently have not read the earlier American Pravda article by Ron Unz on Icebreaker and the later edition of this work called The Chief Culprit (Stalin).

    yes, I did read it, and the original, and I found it a full of crap. You see, I do read other thing as well – makes all the difference.

    If the Soviets invaded Germany they would be able to get the tanks on paved roads.

    Yes, sure, but over Russia and Poland, they’d simply fly.

  1456. Otterboy says:
    @Anon

    Thanks for the information

    I won’t get into the interesting tenants of the building and what may have conveniently been destroyed, but please note this

    NIST finally released their report which initially stated that the building did not collapse at free fall speed due to the obstructions that had to collapse and fall away on the lower floors; in other words there was resistance

    After lots of pressure from those pesky truther “conspiracy” architects and structural engineers who pointed out that the NIST model was plain wrong, they put out a final revised report in 2008 admitting that the building did indeed collapse at free fall. (you see it’s possible to revise without going to jail or get beaten up!)

    Since then they have not cared to explain how and why this is the first and only exception to the principles of Newtonian physics. Although their paper was published, they have never agreed to release the formulas used to calculate their models apparently because of “public safety”, whatever that means

    As I mentioned to Heros earlier, this thread is already humungus and it’s not the time and place to debate 911 which would very likely end up as a bigger topic than this one. If Ron Unz decides to write about it I’ll be happy to debate and swap further thoughts with you

    Best wishes

    • Replies: @Anon
  1457. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    ON THE TORTURE OF AUSCHWITZ COMMANDANT HOESS

    Commandant Hoess? You must mean the who guy who was brutally tortured to say whatever his captors wanted hm to say?

    “The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: ‘Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.’”(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    – The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.

    Please note that although in his “spontaneous” confession (with the help of torture”) camp Commandant Rudolf Hoess, claimed 3.000.000 were murdered at Auschwtz. LOL We’re told that immense human remains are at Auschwitz, yet they are not.

    More on the torture of Commandant Hoess:

    Commandant of Auschwitz Rudolf Höss, His Torture and His Forced Confessions, By Carlo Mattogno , Rudolf Höss
    https://codoh.com/library/document/4901/?lang=en

    ‘How the British Obtained the Confessions of Rudolf Höss’
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p389_Faurisson.html

    ‘The Hoess “Confessions” and Legalities’
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=783
    related:
    ‘Jan Sehn, Polish Auschwitz trials judge ripped by Bellinger’
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2812
    more:
    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=hoess+torture

    http://www.codoh.com

  1458. EugeneGur says:
    @L.K

    – To ignite this, Stalin used the [August 1939] Soviet-German Non-Aggression Pact, which:
    a) provoked Hitler’s attack against Poland,
    and b) evoked the declarations of war [against Germany] by Britain and France.

    This is such nonsense it’s incomprehensible how anyone in full possession of his mental facilities could possible take it seriously. How exactly could a non-aggression pact “provoke” Germany into attacking Poland? If Germany wanted to attack Poland in the first place, it could’ve viewed the pact as some sort of assurance that the USSR’d stay neutral in the conflict – that’s about it. But if it hadn’t wanted to attack Poland, it wouldn’t’ve, and the pact would’ve forced it to.

    The pact had nothing with Britain and France declaring a war on Germany after invasion of Poland, nothing at all. Both Britain and France had mutual defense treaties with Poland, and they were obligated to come to Poland’s defense when the latter is attacked. The USSR and the pact had absolutely nothing to do with it.

    You people either don’t know anything (this a charitable interpretation) or you deliberately use this crap to whitewash the Germany’s past. That won’t do.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @peterAUS
  1459. Robjil says:

    The Big 6 is the centerpiece, the shield to stop anyone from looking at the Judaic score cards of the bad deeds that the Judaics did in the entire history of the world. Michael Hoffman uses the term “score cards” and Judaics. He noted that Judaic culture criminalizes any one looking at the score cards of Judaic culture not only the Big 6 but at any time in history. This leads most people in the world to cry and wail any bad deed done to the Judaics in any time in history. Why would anyone do something to such a blameless people?
    Meanwhile, in real history. Judea declares war on Germany as headline news in the Daily Express of London on March 24, 1933. Hitler just got in power in Germany. He did nothing to bother the Judaics yet. Who the hell is Judea? Israel was not a country yet. Palestine was created by the Balfour Declaration already but it was not officially a Jewish only state. Why aren’t we allowed to look into who or what the hell was Judea?
    USS Liberty is another big one. Israel attacked a US intelligence Navy ship near Israel on June 8 1967. 34 sailors died and 174 were wounded. Johnson wanted the ship to sink. It was a false flag to get US in a war with Egypt to help Israel. It didn’t work. Yet, we are not allowed to talk about this score card in our MSM. There was no talk at all about it during the 50 year anniversary by our MSM.
    911 is another big one. Israel has its footprints all over this one. It was like USS Liberty but it worked. It attacked Americans on American soil and in their biggest city. The US was then dragged into in the middle east to fight endless wars for Israel. It is still going on seventeen years later. Seven nations were picked to be destroyed for the 911 false flag. All seven were pro-Palestinian. Wesley Clark saw this in a memo and mentioned the seven nations. He did not know why the US wanted to destroy seven nations for the 911 false flag. The answer is in Deuteronomy 7.1-2. of the Old Testament. The crazies, Ziocon/ Neocons and Israelis, think that they are living in 500 BC and not the 21st century. Six of the seven have been attacked/destroyed already, Iran is only one left standing. All the chatter to get Iran is about a 500 BC fantasy. Purim was the theme for two big countries attacked. 2003 Iraq attacked on Purim. 2011 Libya was attacked on Purim. Iran is where the first Purim happened so this it is the biggest 500 BC fantasy of all to capture for the 500 BC crazies. The Judaic score card for sake of humanity has to be allowed to be freely studied and an open record for all. We are destroying our planet and the human race by denying our ability to study the Judaic score card.

    • Replies: @j2
  1460. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    ON THE BOGUS & ABSURD EICHMANN “CONFESSIONS”
    Lengthy, please select ‘MORE’ if necessary.

    The Eichmann trial was a bizarre theatrical production. And most importantly what Eichmann actually said in court and under interrogation is preposterous, contradictory, and impossible.
    recommended: EICHMANN INTERROGATED: Transcripts from the Archives of the Israeli Police edited by Jochen von Lang in collaboration with Claus Sibyll. Translated from the German by Ralph Manheim. Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, New York, 1983, 293pp.: http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/6/2/OKeefe237-240.html

    and from: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8033

    So called ‘holocaust’ historian (the ultimate oxymoron) Browning had little recourse in stating:

    Clearly, anyone who wants to dismiss Eichmann’s testimonies on the grounds of their demonstrated unreliability and shameless self-serving lies can easily do so, and many of my colleagues have done precisely this.

    Eichmann claims to have witnessed mass slaughter on a grand scale at Auschwitz in the fall of 1941, where the camp commandant, Rudolf Hoess, informed him that the great, factory-like buildings, the chimneys of which belch smoke, are “working to capacity: Ten thousand!”

    This is months before the Auschwitz crematoria were constructed, let alone in use.

    Eichmann talks of Treblinka – but then he’s not sure if it’s Treblinka – where he says gassings were being carried out with a submarine engine (diesel); he claims at places near Minsk and Lemberg, mass shootings were taking place, including one mass grave from which he said [quote]blood was gushing out … like a geyser although it had already been filled in; and again Treblinka (this time there’s no doubt: phony railway station and all) where gassings, he claims, are being carried out with the insecticide Zyklon-B.
    The gushing geysers are a nice touch, and work well with the propensity of other “Holocaust” mass graves to quake and spew forth blood, sometimes for months after the killings. Treblinka, however, is supposed not to have been functioning as an extermination center until the summer of 1942, nor was Zyklon-B ever claimed to have been employed there.

    Eichmann even offers substantiation for the six-million claim-he says he’s worked out the numbers from reading ***Jewish almanacs***, he persistently rejects the accusation that he was the organizer of the “Final Solution” or the “flywheel of the extermination machine.”

    – The ‘holocaust’ Industry’s own Mark Roseman said:

    Both Rudolf Hoess’s and Eichmann’s testimonies lack credibility.

    – On Eichmann’s Diaries, Charles M. Sennott, Boston Globe, March 1, 2000, included this little tid-bit of information:

    From this self-absorbed focus on his own death he shifted easily to explaining in graphic detail how, in the death camps, “round cotton wool filters were soaked with this poison and thrown into the rooms where the Jews were assembled. The poison was instantly fatal.”

    The standard story line says the pesticide Zyklon-B was used. Zyklon-B was a dry granular substance impregnated with cyanide and outgasses for hours & hours, and in reality was used to kill typhus bearing lice.
    In a German language version Eichmann is claimed to have said:

    Hoess, the Kommandant, told me that he used **sulphuric acid** to kill. Round cotton wool filters were soaked with this poison and thrown into the rooms where the Jews were assembled. The poison was instantly fatal.

    But in another version we read that Eichmann said:

    The commandant, Hoess, told me that he used **prussic acid** to kill. Round wood-fibre discs were impregnated with this poison, and then thrown into the spaces where the Jews were gathered. The poison killed immediately.

    The problem is, everyone from the sanitation officers on up claim that the insecticide, Zyklon-B, was a gypsum composite. And of course, survivors all insist it was “crystals” of various hues; blue, green, mauve, take your pick.

    So in other words, Eichmann’s testimony here goes against the other ‘testimonies’ about Zyklon-B at Auschwitz, which themselves contain vast contradictions. It sure is hard for them to keep the lies straight.

    In his alleged pre-arrest ‘memoirs’, well…these ‘memoirs’ also have him describing himself as being more of a Zionist than an SS officer, right…sure.
    Eichmann clearly copy-catted now debunked material given him:
    – He refers to reading the ‘holocaust’ Industry’s Reitlinger for ‘information’.
    – He had a heavily annotated copy of the discreditied Hoess memoirs, published in Germany in 1957.
    – His preposterous statements that diesel submarine motors were used in gas chambers and that the hair of the victims was used to make slippers are from the bogus Gerstein claims. Gerstein’s affidavit became very widely known right after the war. Gerstein made many different & absurdly conflicting ‘confessions’ as has been demonstrated by Frenchman Henri Rocques.

    – Eichmann claims being ordered to go to Lemberg:

    There had been a pit there, it was already filled in, and blood was gushing out of it…how shall I say?…like a geyser. I’ve never seen anything like it. I’d had enough of that mission.

    Which he got from laughable testimony at the Einsatzgruppen Show Trials of 1947, not original to him.
    We must also ask how the accusers can conduct a trial of the accused? It is necessarily a bogus, unfair trial.
    And then we’re back to the fact that there is no physical evidence and the ‘extermination’ methods as alleged are scientifically impossible.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Troll: crimson2
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1461. @jilles dykstra

    ‘Because hardly any government anywhere, as far as I know, ever allowed citizens to mass murder other citizens.’

    You have a point. On the other hand, the full, orthodox Holocaust narrative with all the trimmings implies a gentile mass continuously filled with murderous animus, just waiting for a chance to kill all the Jews.

    That’s implausible. Obviously, there was some trigger. This isn’t to say that the Jews deserved to die; it’s like the girl walking through a bad part of town at 2:00 am. Obviously, she didn’t deserve to get raped — but there is an apparent connection between her behavior and the outcome.

    In this case, it was the partially accurate perception that Jewry had been in league with the Bolshevik oppressors.

    If one goes back to the previous great outbreak of actual wholesale murder of Jews — Khmelnitski’s Ukrainian uprising in the seventeenth century — the Ukrainian peasantry turned on their Polish overlords and their Jewish agents. Jews were targets because it was they who collected the rents, enforced the closure of Orthodox churches, etc.

    Historical events have a perceptible cause. It’s never a matter of the bad men turning on snowy-white innocents just out of the evil lurking in their hearts.

    Poland may demonstrate this. Yes, there were massacres of Jews by Polish gentiles. However, they all seem to have happened in those parts of Poland that had fallen under Soviet occupation, where Jews were perceived as agents of the oppressor. In those parts of Poland that fell under German rather than Russian occupation, the local Jews were obviously even worse off than the Poles, and so didn’t become the target of pogroms. Obviously, the Germans would have been quite happy to let the Poles have at the Jews — but while no doubt they harbored anti-semitic sentiments, turned in fugitive Jews, etc, the local Poles had no particular reason to suddenly want to kill all the Jews.

    The same phenomenon seems to have occurred in Romania. In Romania proper — which had not fallen under Russian occupation in 1939-40 — no wholesale slaughter of the Jews occurred. It most certainly did occur in Bessarabia, which the Russians had occupied in 1940.

    Where people did suddenly decide to kill all the Jews, there was a perceptible motive. This isn’t to say it was right — just that one can discern a causal relationship.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  1462. @Grahamsno(G64)

    ‘I am done with the Holocaust, this was the last straw finding out that Yad Vashem is a load of bollocks.’

    I would have thought it would be the first straw, so to speak.

    If there would be bollocks anywhere, it would be at an endeavor as fundamentally propagandistic as Yad Vashem. The whole point of the institution is to keep the Holocaust alive, to make it as perfectly morally unambiguous as possible, and to put it to good use as a justification for Israel.

    When I go to San Simeon and visit Hearst Castle, I learn all about how mighty fine William Randolph Hearst was. That’s to be expected. Ditto for visiting Vad Yashem. What? You were expecting that’s where you’d find a nuanced view of the Holocaust? Maybe some discussion of alternate interpretations?

  1463. @annamaria

    ‘What’s your agenda on this forum?’

    I was just thinking about that. Why am I commenting on this thread?

    Well…cause the alternative is to go deal with that sash cord that broke the other day?

    Then too, I feel like insisting on my right to say exactly what I think about any topic; to treat the Holocaust as a historical event rather than religious revelation. It occurred; I agree with that. I don’t feel I have to subscribe to every tenet laid down in the Book of Holocaustry, and I lay out exactly where I disagree or am unconvinced. It’s not sacrilege.

    • Replies: @L.K
  1464. crimson2 says:
    @Erebus

    Look, Nazi fuckface, there is plenty of evidence of disturbed soil. They’s used ground penetrating radar to find the pits and the dismantled gas chambers at Treblinka.

    But pretending that there’s no evidence is what you do. And you think you’re “winning”? Anyone espousing Holocaust denial at their place of employment would be immediately fired. Not because there’s some global Jewish conspiracy, but because it’s nearly universally agreed that you guys are idiots at best, homicidal lunatics at worst.

    So just remember your place.

  1465. bj says:
    @geokat62

    Thanks geokat62! The correct link is…..

    Ernst Zundel interviews David Cole

    • Replies: @Otterboy
    , @geokat62
  1466. crimson2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    How does it ‘slander’ anyone to make an indefensible claim that the Holocaust didn’t happen?

    Unz and other Holocaust deniers are claiming that Holocaust survivors are lying, that Holocaust researchers have faked and fabricated evidence. Since none of this is true it is obviously slander and if you had thought for even five seconds you would have realized this.

    I think this notion that Holocaust Denial is somehow slander is just a piece of facile B.S. It’s false, and you may well find it infuriating — but it’s not slander.

    Maybe you’ve been hanging out at Unz too long because this is extremely stupid.

  1467. @EugeneGur

    ‘This is such nonsense it’s incomprehensible how anyone in full possession of his mental facilities could possible take it seriously…’

    At the same time, it is pretty obvious that Stalin expected a German attack on Poland to occur as soon as he signed, and that such an attack would result in war between Germany and Britain and France.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  1468. crimson2 says:
    @Heros

    “It must be true that Jews eat children, just look at this realistic statue of the event!”

    Dude, get help.

  1469. bj says:
    @FKA Max

    “When I see your corpses, I think of those charred German bodies in the air-raid shelters in Berlin.”

    Adolf Eichmann

    Yes, why should a Jewish corpse be deified and a German corpse be reviled?

    Luke 9:59-60 King James Version (KJV)

    59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

    60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1470. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @UncommonGround

    My emotions are only roused by the shameful performance of the German prosecution service and whatever political superiors they have. Did they ever push for prosecution of the terrorist murderers Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin, Prime Ministers of Israel no.less?

    My point however which I am surprised you have overlooked is that he gave his interview and made many similar statements long before he was prosecuted and he said the same things at this trial, not as part of an apology and plea before sentencing. Capisce?

  1471. j2 says:
    @Robjil

    “The answer is in Deuteronomy 7.1-2. of the Old Testament. The crazies, Ziocon/ Neocons and Israelis, think that they are living in 500 BC and not the 21st century. ”

    Yes, this is the reason. The events follow the Exodus and conquering the Promised Land. Some crazies think that this is what should be done. The end result should be stealing all riches of nations and enslaving or exterminating all other nations. This is something many people do not understand of the Holocaust, it is part of the same, it was the persecution before the end of the times exodus, realized like in the prophecies.

  1472. @Wally

    Also, the official account of his post-war escape from Germany and eventual capture in Argentina is full of howlers. He somehow slipped under the Americans noses for almost 5 years, even leased land in Austria while in a forestry work detail (!). He slipped away after being “tipped off” (by whom?) that his cover was blown, and used a “secret Nazi network” in the Vatican to get to South America until plucky “Nazi hunters” did yeoman detective work and tracked him down. Not quite as laughable as geysers of blood, but still not credible. Clearly he knew enough to be useful, but (unlike Himmler, say), not enough to be dangerous. He was some kind of asset, probably OSS/CIA.

  1473. @crimson2

    I have just said I now tend to believe the official Holocaust version subject to the numbers maybe being a lot less than 6 million and subject to its being, possibly, not positively driven and devised as much by Hitler as by his more fanatical henchmen, with him being nonetheless guilty. But you undermine your case as much as the mad denialists by your intemperate language which is surely not what you want to do.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1474. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    said:
    “Unz and other Holocaust deniers are claiming that Holocaust survivors are lying, that Holocaust researchers have faked and fabricated evidence. Since none of this is true it is obviously slander and if you had thought for even five seconds you would have realized this.”

    Except that you been challenged to show all of that to be untrue, but you cannot. Simple as that.
    “Slander” On’ everyone. LOL

    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the ‘holocaust’ storyline.
    And that’s why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it.
    Truth is hate to those that hate the truth.

    Still waiting for crimson2 to show us the alleged immense human remains in allegedly known places for his impossible ‘6M Jews & 5M others’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1475. Art says:
    @crimson2

    The Nazis in this thread whine that Jews have taken over the world wit the Holocaust story. But all of a sudden, the story isn’t important enough to conceal?

    Clearly Unz didn’t think about this for even a second. Or, if he did, he simple gurgled “Jews are gross liars!” and started typing.

    Your calling everyone a “Nazi”, who questions the H-word is simplistic and juvenile. The idea that someone would white this article without thinking, is beyond ignorant. This article is a life changing event. There are people who defend the hard-core Nazis – Mr. Unz is not one of them. He is defending Western culture – good on him.

    Clearly the use of the H-word is historic. It has changed history in a gross negative way. Wars and millions of displaced people are the legacy of the H-word.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. The Jew culture promotes lying, as a tool to advance themselves tribally.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Manousos
  1476. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    It’s good to be able to converse with someone civilly on these UR threads. Without expecting your considered response allow me to point out, from distant recollection, that the later NIST report said that part of the collapse was and part was not at free fall speed. I am not sure if you think you know what to make of the free fall obsession. Unless someone knows not just the applied mathematics but also about demolition methods I am unimpressed. If you dropped a half ton slab of concrete on to a ten foot high pyramid of coke cans from even six inches above it I would expect there collapse to be at 32 ft sec^-2 and some real expert can start taking me through the differences that explain the WTC7 from there. But I think they would have a few questions to answer before they were ready to do that.

    And then there is the suggestion that there is a collateral objective on 9/11 to destroy something in WTC7. A moment’s thought raises first the objection that it is going to compromise the peddling of the story that the hijackers targets are the obvious big Al Qaeda objectives. But, more than that, the idea that there wouldn’t be backups elsewhere for what was to be destroyed or that anyone could be sure of that – or that, after leaving the building burning for 8 hours the plotters could be sure that they could destroy what needed to be destroyed – and not instead draw attention to it – is contrary to common sense and very far fetched. Cheers.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1477. L.K says:
    @Colin Wright

    Holohoax activist and fanatic, Colin Wright, goes:

    I think about any topic; to treat the Holocaust as a historical event rather than religious revelation.

    But the powers that be do treat it as a religion and, reading some of your posts, clearly so do you.
    The holocaust is war propaganda that got elevated to the status of ‘facts’.
    There are many other examples of such, a recent one that comes to mind being the generally accepted version of what happened in Rwanda.
    The moment the holohoax gets to be openly and normally debated, as any supposed historical event should, the farce will become obvious for all to see it.
    As a matter of fact, anybody who has taken the trouble to follow the hidden debate with an open mind, already knows that the revisionists have won.

    Holo fanatic Colin continues:

    It occurred

    No, it did NOT and, since the shysters called holocaust ‘historians’ have never been able to prove it – and this is the reason it needs to be shielded from scrutiny – neither can a nobody like you.

  1478. crimson2 says:
    @bj

    Look in the mirror dude……you are a ranting raving lunatic!

    Somebody is mad that I made fun of his fantasies of Jews drinking blood. Suck it up, Gunther.

    • Replies: @bj
    , @Curmudgeon
  1479. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Where people did suddenly decide to kill all the Jews, there was a perceptible motive. This isn’t to say it was right — just that one can discern a causal relationship.”

    Where did “people suddenly decide to kill all the Jews”? LOL

    Please present proof that it happened.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1480. L.K says:
    @annamaria

    Correct.

    There are people, a minority unfortunately, who believe in free speech and free inquiry.

    Holohoax fanatic Colin Wright is just NOT one of them.

    Who is afraid of holocaust revisionism? Colin Wright certainly is.

  1481. crimson2 says:
    @bj

    Yes, why should a Jewish corpse be deified and a German corpse be reviled?

    Germany should have thought of not starting a war.

    • Troll: Zumbuddi
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Genrick Yagoda
    , @bj
    , @Art
    , @bj
  1482. Otterboy says:

    Overall the holocaust religion (whether it happened or not or whether it half happened or not) has been, in my opinion, a very negative development. Although I come from an iraqi Jewish background I was sent to an orthodox ashkenazi lubavic school and it was rammed down my throat endlessly

    The whole idea that only the Jews suffered the most is a true and serious disservice to the other millions who died and hardly get a mention. I’ve seen comments on this thread where the numbers of German, Russian, Polish and so many other people’s deaths have varied greatly. How come it’s okay to talk about and question the numbers of their deaths but not the numbers of the Jewish ones? Because the Jews are claiming that this was the greatest genocide in human history and they deserve to take the number one spot in the primacy of human suffering. This has led to tens of billions of dollars claimed by spurious Jewish organisations on behalf of the victims and survivors who hardly receive any of the money. It also allows the Jews and Israel to think they can behave however they like because they stifle warranted and justified criticism by invoking the holocaust and antisemitism. I’m so sick and tired of this and so are many, many other people

    Let me give you an idea about how damaging this is from the point of view of a lapsed Jew. You grow up paranoid, you don’t trust any ‘goy’, you’re told to keep a suitcase ready and packed under the bed for when ‘they’ come again. Basically it instills into you a very strong feeling of anti-gentilism which in turn causes behavior which leads to antisemitism

    The Jews use the holocaust to transfer this idea of Jewish trauma down into the next generation. It’s like a cult based on death. Holocaust studies have been increasing in israel and other Jewish schools worldwide as well as in secular schools globally. Trips to Aushwitz are now commonplace. My nieces and nephews have been on those trips and returned quite brain damaged with strong feelings of anti-gentilism and paranoia

    If you want to see part of how they do this then watch this Israeli made film about antisemitism and brainwashing kids on trips to Aushwitz. If you haven’t seen it I really recommend it

  1483. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    ….whitewash the Germany’s past..

    That’s it.
    There are people who can’t have gray areas. Everything must be 100 % to fit their viewpoints.
    Actually……I believe that majority of people are like that. Makes it all simple.
    Simpletons.

    Nazi Germany. For one side, majority around us, was totally bad. Nothing good was there.
    Hitler, the same.
    Etc.

    And, of course, the opposite side.
    Soviet Union, Stalin etc.

    Or current Israel, USA, Russia, China.

    Or this, Holocaust thing.

    Around 80 % of posters here are of the same type.

    Good.

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @EugeneGur
  1484. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    said: “Germany should have thought of not starting a war.”

    Redneck Zionists never get anything right.*

    BTW, where’s your proof for your ‘millions of murdered Jews’? LOL

    * Responsibility for WW2: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544
    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR: https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1485. crimson2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    But you undermine your case as much as the mad denialists by your intemperate language which is surely not what you want to do.

    Fuck off with this bullshit tone-policing.

  1486. Art says:
    @crimson2

    Unz and other Holocaust deniers are claiming that Holocaust survivors are lying, that Holocaust researchers have faked and fabricated evidence. Since none of this is true it is obviously slander and if you had thought for even five seconds you would have realized this.

    The Holocaust word produces far more important negative things than slander. Slander is the least of the wrongs being done by that word.

    The ME is engulfed in endless war – 9/11 happened – Western culture cowers in a perpetual undeserving guilt.

    Sadly, the H-word did not end in 1945 – its evil goes on today – good people see the WHOLE ongoing story of the H-word. Good people see the evil being perpetuated by that word, and rightly object.

    Bad evil things happened in WWII – we must stop the cycle of death – we are obliged to not use those destructive events to do more wrong.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

  1487. crimson2 says:
    @Otterboy

    Because the Jews are claiming that this was the greatest genocide in human history and they deserve to take the number one spot in the primacy of human suffering.

    They don’t claim this, but so-fucking-what if they did? Every single ethnic groups claims their genocide to be the worst of all. Look at these white morons whine when the discuss forty-something farmers getting killed in South Africa in a year.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
    , @annamaria
    , @j2
  1488. @Art

    One of the most difficult things to wrap ones head around is how the Holocaust was created in mid 1970s, yet every logical people will debate this point even though the term as an upper case proper noun doesn’t exist in history or reference books before 1980 or so.

    It also doesn’t exist in Hollywood movies before this time. It doesn’t exist in Marathon Man 1976 or The Boys from Brazil 1978, for example.

    There are two books from 1960s that use the Holocaust in their titles: The Holocaust Kingdom 1963 and the The Holocaust 1968. But both these books didn’t create a situation where the upper case Holocaust would become a term of art in popular use.

    I give credit for the creation of the upper case Holocaust to Lucy Davidowicz. The small book Dimensions of the Holocaust 1976 is the template of what would later become the Holocaust.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @JackOH
    , @Anonymous
    , @Otterboy
  1489. bj says:
    @crimson2

    Don’t force your cult projection on me!

    Tens of million died in WWII.

    Terror bombing, starvation, typhus, massacres…..

    What makes a few million Jews so special?

    The Holocaust Cult

  1490. @crimson2

    Judea Declared War on Germany on March 24, 1933. Unfortunately, Judea won.

  1491. Otterboy says:
    @bj

    Just to let you know that the video you posted on 497 (and a couple of others) have already been removed/censored from YouTube in the UK. I’m not sure about other locations

  1492. @crimson2

    Must you vile religious maniacs always resort to potty mouth posts? I’ve been on debate boards for some time, and I have yet to see one Holocaustian that either does not resort to profanity, or persistent lies like your stablement Anon365.

    At any rate, you really should come to grips with the fact that your religion is on its last legs. The lie cannot be sustained much longer, and more and more people are begining to recognize that “the holocaust” is one great big fat laughable whopper after the other.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1493. bj says:
    @crimson2

    Don’t project your death cult religion on me!

    How To Survive The Holocaust

  1494. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    “UK opens secret files on the 1940s Jewish terrorists in Palestine and beyond. Newly declassified documents show how British agents tried to contain militant activities, feared attacks on British soil” https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-opens-secret-files-about-jewish-terrorists-in-1940s/

    “Actions have been carried out by individuals and Jewish paramilitary groups such as the Irgun, the Lehi, the Haganah and the Palmach as part of a conflict between Jews, British authorities, and Palestinian Arabs, regarding land, immigration, and control over Palestine. British soldiers and officials, United Nations personnel, Palestinian Arab fighters and civilians, and Jewish fighters and civilians have been targets or victims of these actions. Domestic, commercial, and government property, infrastructure, and material have also been attacked.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

    The most atrocious terrorist activities were carried out by the Jewish Bolsheviks: “http://jewwatch.com/jew-genocide-USSRchristians-usexpeditionaryforces.html
    “David R. Francis, United States ambassador in Russia, warned in a January 1918 dispatch to Washington: “The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are Jews … care little for Russia…”

    … one of the first acts by the Bolsheviks was to make so-called “anti-Semitism” a capital crime. This is confirmed by Stalin himself: “..under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the death penalty.” (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).
    “It was during this time that Bolshevik Commissars (many of them Jews) conducted a horrendous reign of terror against the non-Jewish Russian population. … In Ukraine, “Jews made up nearly 80 percent of the rank-and-file Cheka [secret policie] agents,” reports W. Bruce Lincoln, an American professor of Russian history…”

    “The ideals of Bolshevism are consonant with many of the highest ideals of Judaism.” (Jewish Chronicle, London April, 4, 1919) “Some call it Marxism I call it Judaism.” (The American Bulletin, Rabbi S. Wise, May 5, 1935).
    “Some modern historians estimate that upwards of 85-110 million persons were murdered in the 70 years of communist rule in Russia, many of them directly at the hands of Jews, and even more at the order of Jewish Communist bosses.”

  1495. Otterboy says:
    @crimson2

    If you’ve come here to try and prove certain people wrong or convince them of anything I can assure you that you’re achieving the exact opposite

    Why not try and calm down, tone down the language and try and make your points in a civilised manner? You might have some good ones and you could possibly get people thinking. But I’m even starting to believe that you’re the numero uno holocaust denier extraordinaire pretending to be some kind of sjw liberal psychotic nutcase in order to ensure nobody really pays attention to any arguments of the believers. This is what you’ve achieved since you hijacked the thread with your non stop abusive comments. So if that was your motivation then well done and congratulations, it was a huge success

    • Replies: @Heros
  1496. crimson2 says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    Must you vile religious maniacs always resort to potty mouth posts? I’ve been on debate boards for some time, and I have yet to see one Holocaustian that either does not resort to profanity, or persistent lies like your stablement Anon365.

    Sorry I offended you, lady.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1497. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    The only ethnic group that has created a profiteering schema out of the WWII are Jews.
    Simultaneously, to protect the gesheft, the Jewish Power has assaulted the freedom of information and the freedom of speech. As a result, an honest research that contradicts the holo-biz numbers is currently punishable by a prison term. The spirit of Jewish Bolshevism is alive in the Jewish Lobby’s actions.

  1498. j2 says:
    @crimson2

    “Every single ethnic groups claims their genocide to be the worst of all.”

    No, they do not. Jews are unique in this respect.

  1499. Art says:
    @Nicholas Manousos

    I give credit for the creation of the upper case Holocaust to Lucy Davidowicz. The small book Dimensions of the Holocaust 1976 is the template of what would later become the Holocaust.

    NM — good info — thanks!

    Nowadays it is almost impossible to separate the word Holocaust from the events of WWII. Clearly propaganda works – repeat something often enough and it becomes truth. It takes a determined mind to cope with a repeated lie.

    As we can see on this thread, that the Holocaust types are relentless. They pump false guilt and people cower.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @Nicholas Manousos
  1500. Heros says:
    @peterAUS

    “There are people who can’t have gray areas. Everything must be 100 % to fit their viewpoints.”

    “Nazi Germany. For one side, majority around us, was totally bad. Nothing good was there.”

    Jews lie so often and so easily, they lose all track of the truth. They can even stay honest for a single paragraph.

  1501. Art says:
    @crimson2

    Germany should have thought of not starting a war.

    Gee — didn’t some Big Jew American banksters declared war on the Germans first.

    Those Big Jews stupidly managed to get a whole lot of Little Jew murdered – didn’t they!

    Think Peace — Art

  1502. HdC says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Have to disagree with you on this point, Jilles.
    The Polish government was complicit in the murder of tens of thousands of German expatriates that lived in those areas that were “given” to Poland pursuant to the Diktat of Versailles.

    It was these murders, and the incessant German/Polish border excursions that led Hitler to order the invasion of Poland. Hitler even appealed to the British and the French to prevail upon the the Poles to cease and desist in their actions but to no avail as these worthies actually wanted war.

    The forgoing is well described in the diplomatic dispatches as listed in Witness to History.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  1503. Heros says:
    @Otterboy

    I appreciate your civil tone and will use it as an example to try to tame mine down as well, even when confronted by provocateurs like crimson2.

    I love this painting by Anker, but even then these farmers had no idea what the jews were plotting…

    Notice the US map in the background. After the failed revolutions of 1848 many europeans were dreaming of the new world.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  1504. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    it is pretty obvious that Stalin expected a German attack on Poland to occur as soon as he signed

    By some oversight, Stalin neglected to inform me of what he expected.

    However, one of the aims of the pact likely was to involve Britain and France in conflict with Germany before Germany attacked the Soviet Union. At least, that would’ve been a smart move under the circumstances when the German attack was believed to be imminent.

    Nobody forced Germany to do anything – could’ve just stayed home and saved everybody the trouble.

    This “provocation” theory implies that Stalin had an obligations towards Poland, which he did not have. Nor did he have any obligations to take care of France or Britain; his only duty was towards the Soviet Union.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Herman
  1505. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    said:
    “There of course were pogroms, but, again, as far as I know, any government stopped them as soon as possible.”

    “Pogroms”? Present proof for them.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1506. Wally says:
    @HdC

    more here:
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

  1507. EugeneGur says:
    @peterAUS

    There are people who can’t have gray areas. …Nazi Germany. For one side, majority around us, was totally bad. Nothing good was there.

    In some situations, there simply aren’t any grey areas. Oh, I’ve read in the Nazi Germany domestic and property disputes were settled very quickly and efficiently. That must be good, correct? If you believe that this good somehow balances out the Nazi’s killing, burning, starving millions, when you are, well, how do I put it, a remarkably balanced individual.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @peterAUS
    , @Colin Wright
  1508. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    you posted:
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    but:

    A US historian who wrote that “Poles killed more Jews than Germans” in WW2 in one of his articles, says he is ready to defend his words in court after it emerged that Warsaw had reportedly decided to reconsider closing the probe against him.
    “It’s very disturbing. It’s political. I don’t believe that court is the place where historical issues having to do with Polish-Jewish relations during the war should be debated,” Jan Tomasz Gross, a US Princeton University professor of history and sociology, who is himself of Polish origin, said in an interview to Haaretz newspaper over the weekend.

    Except that it is a claim of criminal activity. LOL

    Jedwabne debunked & explained:

    Jan Gross: ‘Poles killed more Jews than they did Germans’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10761

    review: Neighbors: The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, Jan T. Gross,
    The Changing Definition of ‘Holocaust’, A Review by Richard A. Widmann
    : https://codoh.com/library/document/406/?lang=en

    Jedwabne / The Debate about “Neighbors”, Book Review, By Samuel Crowell : https://codoh.com/library/document/2980/?lang=en

    Poles Bristle at Lingering Stigma of “holocaust” / Jedwabne: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9190

    Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1509. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    said:
    If you believe that this good somehow balances out the Nazi’s killing, burning, starving millions, when you are, well, how do I put it, a remarkably balanced individual.

    Except there is no proof of your alleged “Nazi’s killing, burning, starving millions”, none, and you have been completely unable to produce. it.

    Everyone, recall that its claimed that there are immense human remains in allegedly known places, those alleged remains DO NOT EXIST.

    You see, the ‘magic Nazis’ just made the alleged 6M Jews & 5M others just disappear. Amazing.

    Now supposedly, the Germans slaughtered millions of Jews and buried them in mass graves in Poland. But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard? Does *anybody* seriously believe something so totally ridiculous? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to claim that the technologically-advanced Germans invented a teleportation machine and beamed all the bodies to Venus?
    Ron Unz, https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
    comment #1333

    http://www.codoh.com

  1510. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    …..you are, well, how do I put it, a remarkably balanced individual.

    Hehe…….
    For most of people here I am Hasbara troll/Jew or at least crazed Neocon.
    For you and your types a closet Nazi worshiper or, as you put it , unbalanced.
    And there are some even worse qualifications (if it’s possible to be worse..a Jew or Nazi here, 80/20 %).
    Makes sense.

    As I said before and will keep saying on this site: apart from, say, 2 % posts/comments here the only quality is “people watching”. Realizing and being aware of who the people around us really are.

    I mean….here, at least, we have people who have some focus, energy, put some effort, have some expertise etc. The majority of voters don’t have even that.

    And….by looking at overall quality here, no wonder we are in deep shit as we speak and getting deeper.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @EugeneGur
  1511. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    Let me give you an idea about how damaging this is from the point of view of a lapsed Jew. You grow up paranoid, you don’t trust any ‘goy’, you’re told to keep a suitcase ready and packed under the bed for when ‘they’ come again. Basically it instills into you a very strong feeling of anti-gentilism which in turn causes behavior which leads to antisemitism

    I can see how this can be a self-fulfilling prophecy and how your inner cabal manipulates Jews even more than the Goyim. Many of you have been indoctrinated into this hateful, needless “battle” from an early age.

    Unfortunately, it’s too late to fix it now without massive bloodshed. Too many of you have been “battling” us unopposed for too long. When the pendulum swings there’ll be no mercy.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1512. bj says:

    The deification of Jewish dead in WWII, constitutes a blood libel on the tens of millions of men, women, and children who died in war, including members of my ancestral family.

    The Hoaxocaust Cult threatens freedom of inquiry, and freedom of speech of millions of people, by Jewish Privilege’s abuse of the organs of state power, to persecute and imprison those who refuse to submit.

    Germar Rudolf Jim Rizoli interview Nov 2015

  1513. Undecided says:

    Here’s a serious question for Wally (or whoever) from a genuinely undecided observer:

    On the transit-camp hypothesis, do revisionists suggest that Jews were simply forcibly unloaded at regular train stations somewhere in the Soviet Union and then left to do with their lives what they will? That is, were they just dumped and left to fend for themselves in whatever city, town, or village the trains stopped in?

    Or do revisionists envision a scenario in which officials from the Soviet Union officially received these individuals and then processed them in some regulated capacity?

  1514. bj says:

    “Jews don’t believe in free speech!” John Kaminski

    http://johnkaminski.info/pages/tales_of_the_tribe/3_jews_dont_believe_in_freedom_of_speech.htm

    Jim Rizoli John Kaminski Interview March 2016

  1515. geokat62 says:
    @bj

    Thanks geokat62!

    No, thank you. This was an excellent interview. So good, in fact, that I felt compelled to transcribe the most pertinent segments. While the exchange between Zundel and Cole related to the topic of revisionism and organized Jewry’s attempt to squelch it, I think the same issues David Cole raises about The Lobby are still applicable today.

    David Cole comes across as a very bright, articulate, and compassionate human being. I think it’s incumbent upon today’s Jewish Community to heed his very thoughtful warnings.

    Enjoy!

    [MORE]

    starting @13:54

    EZ: Isn’t there a danger though that they are going to create … of course, every action creates an equal and opposite reaction. As we know about their combat against revisionism really creates new revisionists. So, could it be they’re creating so many enemies because now there… the Christians had never done enough, so we have these… righteous Gentiles. Eventually, the gentile and Christian communities around the world possibly are ganging up because they are tired of being made to feel bad. Is there a danger in that?

    DC: There is a great danger. The worst thing for the Jewish community right now… it’s not the Ernst Zundels or the Robert Faurrisons or the revisionists, the worst thing for the Jewish community are the Jewish groups… the Zionist groups, the World Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, and the holocaust groups like the Wiesenthal Centre and the Klarsfeld Foundation, the people that engage in the witch hunts, the censorship campaigns, the smear campaigns, the ones that sap public funds whether in the form of reparations from Germany or foreign aid from the United States. These are the people who are building up resentment towards Jews because most of the time their acts are not ethical. Their acts are not voted on by the public. We never voted in the United States on foreign aid. Yet our tax money goes to it and we have absolutely no say in the matter. So, it would be one thing if at least they would… these Jewish groups would present their case to the public and say well “yes” or “no” on foreign aid to Israel. And at least we would have a fair shot at seeing what the people wanted. But it’s just taken. Because it’s a big money game. Literally, what it is, we’re paying graft to our own politicians, because we send billions of dollars over there in foreign aid and that money comes back to our Congress people in the form of lobbying contributions. So, it’s an infernal triangle… where the money… we end up funding the pockets not only of the foreign aid lobby, but our own politicians, as well.

    EZ: And why is that dangerous for Jews as a community?

    DC: Well, there is always the possibility of a backlash. People get sick and tired… and people have a right to be angry. I think that’s something that … when you see groups of people in Germany protesting immigrants, whether you agree with them or not, you always have to identify that people get angry. Sometimes you have to look at yourself and say: don’t you get angry over things that somebody else might not be able to identify with, yet still drives you crazy? People get angry when they see their money wasted or when they see another group, a group that is not them or has no connection to them, telling them what to do or what to think. It’s like I said last night, that the Jewish lobby is pathetically trying to institutionalize it’s historical point of view as everybody’s historical point of view. They want to pass laws so everybody thinks they way do… and that can create anger in people. People don’t like that. People don’t like having their freedoms restricted most of the time.

    @18:31 EZ: What’s your advice, then, to the Jewish community at large that seem to be in the grip of the Zionist Lobby that hounds revisionists, both Jewish and gentile.

    DC: I think my advice would be, and this is based on the fact that a have a lot of Jewish friends who in private tell me that they understand what I’m saying… they understand what I’m saying and they’re simply frightened… to tell their parents what they feel or to say in public what they feel. The problem of the censorship of revisionism is more or less a specifically Jewish one. When I speak about Jewish groups censoring revisionists, I’m not trying to create some kind of crazy conspiracy theory. Very very much, it is Zionist groups and Jewish groups that are behind this. And that has to be admitted, openly. And since it is more or less a Jewish problem, Jews are the ones who should take a lead in trying to stop it. I think all Jews of good conscience should say “censorship is wrong. Fighting words with legislation, and with violence, and with threats and coercion is wrong” and at the very least I’m not asking anybody to become a revisionist who doesn’t want to. I’m not asking anybody to believe in something they don’t want to. But everybody should hold dear the principles of free inquiry and truth and the freedom to write and to think.

    @20:21
    EZ: What do you say to people who are afraid that the picture of the Jews being virtually the singular victim of the Second World War will be kind of geared down where they were one of many victims of that tragedy, which was the Second World War. What do you say? How do you answer that Jewish person?

    DC: It’s very hard to argue with someone who is that set in their beliefs. But I think the thing that needs to be realized is you get a slanted picture of the world by only watching news…

    …but the Klarsfelds and the Wiesenthals and everybody… they depend on rank and file Jews, on everyday Jews. And It is these everyday Jews who I think who hold the key. If they stop supporting the actions of people who’ve elected themselves their leaders… and I think that if rank and file Jews or at least enough of Jews of good conscience and Jews that do not have any malice in their hearts towards other people, if they confront these leaders and say “we don’t want you representing us, anymore. You don’t have the right to appear on the news with a caption below your names saying “Jewish community leader.” There are some people whose minds we’re not gonna be able to change, whose actions we’re not going to be able to influence. But we can at least distance ourselves from them.

    • Agree: Otterboy
  1516. @EugeneGur

    ‘By some oversight, Stalin neglected to inform me of what he expected…’

    I suspect we aren’t actually disagreeing.

    …but work on it. I’m sure you can come up with some statement I’ll disagree with. I can be a very disagreeable guy if I put my mind to it.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  1517. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Undecided

    from a genuinely undecided observer:

    Read the article and its links. Compare this reason and data to your previous “knowledge” about the subject (Schindler’s List).

    If you’re still “undecided” after that no-one cares what you think.

    • Replies: @Undecided
  1518. bj says:
    @crimson2

    Germany should have thought of not starting a war.

    The war and holocaust of Germany was forced by Jewery’s political influence.

    Fritz Berg on Jewish Racism

  1519. @crimson2

    Oh no, not policing. Just think of the kindergarten assistant telling you that no one will want to play with you if you do those nasty things in the sandpit.

  1520. Undecided says:
    @Anonymous

    Right. As I say, it’s a serious question, not meant to troll anyone. I’ve read Ron’s article and most of the links, and quite a few others. I still don’t see an answer to that question, though.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1521. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    “Undecided” my ass.
    Your strawmen aside, I suggest that you actually read what I post.

    You’re just playing the illogical ‘where did they go’ canard.
    Of course the entire ‘holocaust’ narrative is utterly impossible, ergo you are engaged garbage in, garbage out.

    Anyway, examples in this thread:
    comment #1466, on the hidden or destroyed outbound train records

    comment # 1404, many examples of ‘where Jews went’

    recommended:
    the burden of proof: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    It’s Jews who claim that ‘holocausted’ Jews WENT to enormous mass graves in known locations’, those alleged immense human remains DO NOT EXIST.
    Not for the alleged ‘6M Jews’, not for the alleged ‘5M others’.

    11,000,000: either Paris 10.9M, London 9M, or Bangkok 10.5M just disappearing.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1522. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Undecided

    I still don’t see an answer to that question, though.

    If you can’t distinguish between clumsy propaganda and hard facts/reason, you are not ready. It’s as simple as that.

  1523. @Art

    FWIW, when they insert the term the Holocaust in a critical WWII history or reference book, it is called presentism. They[people writing Holocaust literature] are very much aware of what they’re doing.

  1524. bj says:

    The courage and generosity of spirit which characterizes men and women of the historical revisionist resistance is apparent from Robert Faurisson to our host extraordinaire, Ron Unz.

    I am honored to participate in the great unlearning of the lies of the Black Magicians in high places, which suffocate and enslave humanity, including the Holocaust lies forced upon us and upon our children in the public schools.

    The lies, coercion, prosecution, and vitriol of the Holocaust Cult condemns them to the depths of hell, if they carry the war against freedom of speech and freedom of inquiry beyond the forbearance of normal decent humanity. Our patience and our love of peace is not forever!

    Robert Faurisson Jim Rizoli interview 2015

  1525. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    ‘where did they go’ canard.

    This particular propaganda tactics was used against Serbia back in the day (1999 I believe). At some point, every (((MSM))) outlet was screaming about 300 000 “missing” Muslims from Kosovo. Surely, WE, had to do something to prevent this genocide.

    Afterwards, only a handful of “mass-grave” victims were discovered. Most of them Serbs.

  1526. bj says:

    This documentary speaks for itself!

    EUROPA – The Last Battle – Part 8

  1527. JackOH says:
    @Nicholas Manousos

    Nicholas, thanks. You’ve hit upon the proper aggregative naming of complex historical phenomena–Bronze Age, the Dark Age, the Reformation, the Industrial Revolution, and so on.

    Allow me to suggest a very clunky, very tentative alternative to “The Holocaust” that accounts for both the magnification of Jewish influence within the Russian Revolution, and the diminution of Jewish influence within Nazi-occupied Europe.

    How about: The Re-ordering of Jewish Influence Within Europe, maybe with appropriate dates, 1919-1989 (?).

    Any thoughts?

  1528. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    An interesting thing just happened.

    I tried to google the below article, I typed “Beyond Auschwitz Samuel Cromwell New Light Hungarian Jews” into Google, and it didn’t show up in the search results, instead “What Happened to the Jews Who Were Deported to Auschwitz But Were Not Registered There?” https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-4_Graf.html by Jürgen Graf came up.

    When I used Bing, it was the first search result that came up. Curious…


    Beyond Auschwitz

    New Light on the Fate of the Hungarian Jews

    By Samuel Crowell (1955-2017) https://codoh.com/library/document/4632/ and https://codoh.com/library/authors/1516/

    It follows from the evidence at our disposal that 430,000 Hungarian Jews were not gassed and burned at Auschwitz, and that the death toll for that camp should again be revised downward by about 40 percent. But it also follows that historians have barely begun to grasp the fate of Hungary’s Jews in the Second World War.

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n2p26_Crowell.html Archived link: http://archive.is/Crjdd#selection-537.0-537.320

    All told, we succeeded in processing about half a million Jews in Hungary. I once knew the exact number that we shipped to Auschwitz, but today I can only estimate that it was around 350,000 in a period of about four months. But, contrary to legend, the majority of the deportees were not gassed at all but put to work in munitions plants. That is why there are thousands of Jews happily alive today who are included in the statistical totals of the “liquidated.”

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2497112

    Rose Clouds of Holocaust

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
    , @Grahamsno(G64)
  1529. @Undecided

    First, as has already been noted here, revisionists are under absolutely no obligation to make the official story believable. It is quite sufficient to point out the flaws in that story.

    But to your query, sure, your scenario is plausible, certainly much more believable than what is claimed to have happened at the AR camps. (Probably more accurate to claim they were sent to ghettos further east, which the official account now claims were far more numerous than previously thought.)

    What’s wrong with it?

    • Replies: @Undecided
    , @crimson2
  1530. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Beyond the known Red cross numbers, plus adding in extrapolated estimates for the period not covered by the Red Cross numbers, is what the total is. There simply are no other rational totals.

    The Eichmann quote where he supposedly says,” But, contrary to legend, the majority of the deportees were not gassed at all but put to work in munitions plants.”, while revisionist in many ways, must be taken with a grain of sand since we already know that NO gassings occurred, in fact, we know that the alleged chambers could NOT have as gassed people as alleged.

    Clearly Eichmann, in captivity, was trying to appease his captors with the classic ‘throw them a bone’ and hope for lenience

    see my comment #1492, ‘ ON THE BOGUS & ABSURD EICHMANN “CONFESSIONS” ‘

    So then, FKA Max, what is your position on Auschwitz?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1531. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Beef:

    Revs are all over it, see below.

    You gotta love this prescient five year old quote, Ron Unz, are you reading?

    Remember, that IS the New York Times, the American Pravda.
    As some say: All the news that supremacist Jews feel fit to print

    see:

    NY Times: ‘Holocaust Just Got More Shocking’ / fake painting: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7688

    http://www.codoh.com

  1532. Anonymous[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nicholas Manousos

    There are two books from 1960s that use the Holocaust in their titles: The Holocaust Kingdom 1963 and the The Holocaust 1968. But both these books didn’t create a situation where the upper case Holocaust would become a term of art in popular use.

    Were these books about the experiences of Jews in Europe during WW2?

  1533. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Wally

    Clearly Eichmann, in captivity, was trying to appease his captors with the classic ‘throw them a bone’ and hope for lenience

    Wally,

    Willem Sassen interviewed Eichmann in 1957:

    In 1957, Sassen interviewed Adolf Eichmann about his involvement in the Nazis Final Solution. Parts of the interviews were published in two articles in Life magazine. It is assumed that the transcripts of the interviews are much more realistic and personal than the autobiography Eichmann wrote while in prison in Israel, possibly attempting to place himself in a better light and alter the outcome of the trial. In 1980 the Sassen documents or Sassen tapes, consisting of approximately 600 pages of material from the interviews, were transferred to Eichmann’s widow, Veronika.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Sassen#The_Eichmann_interviews

    • Replies: @Wally
  1534. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    In Eichmann’s confession there is the place that Nazis left 200,000 Jews to Auschwitz to Soviet hands. That has to mean that the commonly given figure of 410,000 Jewish survivors of concentration camps in the end of the war cannot include all camps liberated by Soviets. It apparently is a figure only for the camps liberated by Western Allies, and maybe some small number announced by Soviets for their part. Thus, it would follow that we have to add to the camp survivors some 200,000-300,000, which will essentially cover the missing Hungarian Jews.

    As I have said many times before, using the official numbers, I get an upper bound of 400,000 to the Jewish deaths in Auschwitz and strongly suspect that the correct number is about 60,000, estimated deaths of registered Jewish inmates. That leaves 340,000 unexplained. This 340,000 fits very well to the 320,000 Hungarian Jews, who seem to have disappeared. That means that the Jewish population of Poland does not need to be reduced. It seems to have been 3.25M, which is the official number.

    I think it is very good that the missing part of the Auschwitz 400,000 upper bound was found. It makes the other numbers more credible. No Jew in the West or Western Poland is missing, all can be accounted for an by official numbers (populations and death tolls).

    These 320,000 Hungarian Jews were taken by Soviets to the Soviet Union. 200,000 of them were according to Eichmann left to Auschwitz, the rest could have been liberated by the Soviets from smaller camps. Eichmann claims that Nazis found some work to these Jews, so they were not all completely unfit to work, though only 110,000 were in so good working condition that they were taken to real labor camps.

    As it seems that the Soviet Union did not tell of having liberated some 200,000-300,000 Hungarian Jews, mainly from concentration camps, we may assume that there were more survivors in the Soviet Union than the announced figure 2M.

    I do not see any strong evidence to a claim that 320,000 Hungarian Jews were burned in Auschwitz or elsewhere and if they were alive, they could only be in the Soviet Union. Indeed, Eichmann when stating that the outside pyres of bodies remind him of air raids against Germans seem to imply that the origin of the rumor that Jews were burned in Auschwitz in outside pyres is burning bodies in this way after air raids in Germany. Eichmann repeats all most incredible rumors, like a fountain of blood, that he has read from confessions of other people. That does not mean that he confirms these events but the opposite, he draws light to the absurdities.

  1535. I know it’s a bit late in the comment stream, and it’s not really the place to ask this question (except tangentially)… but fuck it. let’s do this.

    I’m a long-time reader of Israel Shahak – whose writing reminds me quite a bit of Panagoitis (Taki) Theodoracopoulos (high praise!). Shahaks’ perspective has been attacked as ‘SHJ’ (self-hating Jew, or Yehudon/Zhidy more generally).

    So I’m glad he has a platform here (and elsewhere).

    One other fellow whose output I enjoy is (deep breath) Gilad Atzmon. I’m particularly thinking of his talks about Jewish cognitive bifurcation – in particular, the advantages conferred (over all comers) by 1500-ish years of ‘eugenics’ in Western European Judaism.

    In one version of the talk, Atzmon lays out a pretty interesting thesis on why the standard European aristocratic practice of primogeniture was dysgenic (at least, relative to systematic eugenics in Western Jewry), and why the British moved to ‘augmenting’ their aristocracies with new, eugenic grafting-on through the ‘ennobling’ of military men, clerics, intellectuals and so forth during its Empire phase.

    It also helps explain why Zionism had to go further an further East to get rabbinical support for its Palestine-invasion idea, nd why German Jews were the créme de la créme (or “le gratin“) of European Jewry.

    Anyhow – I thought I would give a pointer to Atzmon’s talk (I’ve never seen Mr Unz or Steve Sailer refer to Atzmon)… watching Atzmon’s talk is going to be relatively uncontroversial, given that Mr Unz has gone so far down the rabbit hole that his site is now subject to persistent DOS and other chicanery (prima facie evidence that he’s pissed off the Kosher Nostra).

    So… אי”ה (and inshallah)[1] this video embeds (or links, at least) …

    Cognitive Elite and the Jewish Eugenic Project Gilad ATZMON

    [1] double lol since there is no godHAIL KEK! (Kidding about Kek – it’s funny though)

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  1536. cassandra says:
    @Otterboy

    The level of mind control and repression exposed by the video totally creeps me out.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1537. @EugeneGur

    ‘In some situations, there simply aren’t any grey areas. Oh, I’ve read in the Nazi Germany domestic and property disputes were settled very quickly and efficiently. That must be good, correct? If you believe that this good somehow balances out the Nazi’s killing, burning, starving millions, when you are, well, how do I put it, a remarkably balanced individual.’

    The problem with your outlook is that you never come to understand how Nazism worked, how it did appeal, and appeal not to some body of ‘bad people,’ but to individuals whose moral complexion was about the same as ours.

    As a result, when the same train of causes and effects or similar starts to unfold again, you are blind to it, and don’t realize what’s starting to happen. The Nazi episode wasn’t some frigging cartoon. It was real, and we should appreciate what it was, and realize the equivalent dangers in our current situation. People are getting pushed, and I don’t like what they’re getting pushed towards.

    We’re perfectly capable of doing it all again. I’ve heard people voice plans for Iran that more or less imply the murder of ten or twenty million innocent people. If the Germans preferred not to fret unduly about where the Jews were going, we’re reluctant to contemplate what we support in Israel — or to do anything about the cabal that makes that support possible.

    Perhaps more importantly, though, is the way Americans are getting driven to the point where there will almost certainly be a reaction. Trump could be a real light-weight compared to where we’re headed. In point of fact, Trump is a light-weight. I wish we’d start turning things around while there’s still time to deal with our various problems calmly and humanely. Part of the reason why I’d like to see the ship turn around about now is that scenarios like this have played out before. Having some relatively accurate appreciation of who the Nazis were makes me realize that.

    We can go there too. It’s not all that hard. If you allowed yourself to look at what Nazism was, you’d understand that. America could make a glorious Third Reich. I’d rather not go there, though.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @EugeneGur
  1538. @Wally

    I of course know that the Jedwabne murders are debated.
    As to if Gross exaggerrated or even phantasized the whole story, I was not a personal witness.
    However, that Poles, to put it mildly, did not like their jewish neighbours is well described by Bogdan Musial, a Polish historian working at a Polish-jewish institution in Warsaw.
    That Poles did not like their jews you can find in many books, I must admit, most of them written by jews.
    Fact is that even in 1967, hope I have the year right, Poland was happy to let the jews go, Gross was one of them.
    Poland is even now a deeply catholic country.
    Jews until 1890 approx, monopolised trade, railways made many of them superfluous.
    Then there is the statement by an old Polish woman in a book by Anne Applebaum ‘Hitler did terrible things, but he saved us from the jews’.
    That Lithuanians killed their jewish neighbours, not much doubt about it.
    That something similar happened in Poland, quite probable, in my opinion.
    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    Klaus Hödl, ‘Als Bettler in die Leopoldstadt, Galizische Juden auf dem Weg nach Wien’, Wien, 1994

  1539. @Wally

    Weird question, you find pogroms mentioned in any serious relevant book.
    The cry during one of these in Germany ‘hep hep’, is a mystery to historians until now.
    But read for example
    J.S Bromley, ed., The new Cambridge modern history, volume VI, The rise of Great Britain and Russia, 1688 – 1715/25’, 1970 Cambridge
    Vienna pogroms are mentioned.

  1540. cassandra says:
    @Wally

    From Irving’s intro to his book that you cited:

    And who are these over-emotional historians of the Jewish tragedy who, until I did so, never troubled themselves even to open a readily available file of the SS chief Heinrich Himmler’s own handwritten telephone notes, or to read his memoranda for his secret meetings with Adolf Hitler?

    Another reason why accepting revisionism is necessary for reaching the truth. (That supposes, of course, that the truth is what you’re after.)

  1541. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    “I appreciate your civil tone and will use it as an example to try to tame mine down as well,”

    Then I’d like to suggest to Mr Unz that he should personally congratulate Otterboy and invite him to write an article on importance of civility.

    I’d have thought that you could have followed the example of our host long time ago.
    It seems to me that one can criticizes Mr Unz’s articles but one can’t fail to notice that he always writes scholarly essays and their tone is always….what’s the word ? Civil ?

    The problem isn’t the tone. It’s about hate, isn’t it ?

    You, like lots of commenters here, hate jewish power. And you’re right. Power is evil.

    But , imho, what you don’t understand is that the problem isn’t one of revenge or replacing that power for white/black/yellow power. If the nature of power is evil, then, w/o being for anarchy, we can try to build a society where men have less power over other men.

    That of course isn’t possible with empires and existence of secret societies.

    And something that I believe also that lot of people fail to understand is that jewish power wouldn’t exist w/o collaboration of whites, blacks….

    And whites , blacks aren’t victims. Why Americans don’t know about the crimes being committed in their name by jewish power ?

    Why Americans don’t know/don’t care about the crimes being committed even against Americans?

    It seems to me that is just facile to blame only jewish power and dream of revenge and replacing it.

    What white supremacists should know – and I presume you’re one, if you are not accept my apologies- is that ” in this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate.”

    This is what all religions teach and I believe even those who are sincerely religious jews believe in.

    Yes, jewish power should be destroyed but it should not be replaced and revenge should not take place.

    I also adimire Otterboy’s tone. Hope mine was also civil.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Otterboy
    , @Heros
  1542. Undecided says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Thanks for answering my question. I really don’t see why it triggered everyone else because I’m just trying to understand the revisionist claim as best I can. I keep seeing revisionists claim (as a couple did earlier) that they’re under no obligation to explain where Jews went upon transfer to the east from the Reinhard camps, but in all candor, if you want to change anyone’s mind, you really do need to help figure out where those people went.

    In a recent article linked somewhere above, Thomas Kues does do that. Acknowledging his is just a very preliminary effort, he finds limited evidence of Dutch Jews living in Poland and assumes they were transited there. That sounds reasonable to me.

    I have to say it sounds less reasonable to me that, as Wally replied to me above about the Reinhard camps:

    outbound train rain records from those same sites, which of course were necessarily kept, especially with the vital need to know where all the trains and their loads generally were during critical war time, HAVE DISAPPEARED.
    They’ve either been hidden away or most likely, simply destroyed. We obviously know why.

    I’m no expert but to me that claim is almost as bad as saying all the bodies disappeared.

    But forget it for now. Let’s assume just 10 Jews were transited/deported “east” from the Reinhard camps.

    Okay, what happened when their train stopped at its destination? Did the guards just push them out and wish them luck? If not, it seems to me revisionists are presupposing a vast transfer agreement with the Soviets to accept these “refugees”.

    In theory, that doesn’t seem likely, because the Soviets and the Germans were already locked in a bitter bloody war, right?

    Yet it also seems completely inhuman and unlikely that the trains just stopped in the middle of forests or valleys and kicked them out. And I’ve never heard anyone at all make that claim.

    It also seems completely unlikely they were just dropped off in Soviet territory and wished good luck, because wouldn’t they all just go sign up with the Red Army and promptly make war on Germany?

    Is there any precedent for dumping people into enemy territory during wartime?

    Let me emphasize that none of this means the best alternative scenario is to conclude that human beings were gassed, buried, later dug up, and cremated with no trace whatsoever to be found.

    I’m only trying to decide what kind of political scenario the German government thought likely in pursuing a strategy of deportation to ‘the east’.

  1543. Turpitz says:
    @Anon

    Irving is a muddled old-man who thought he would be ‘hero’ in the late eighties. His website is just copy and pasted shite from Zionist outlets, pushing the mainstream narrative on everything. He was recently seen to be championing “Talmud Tommy” F.F.S. He is an opportunist who couldn’t take the heat. He has been on the back-foot for the last twenty years. He, as well as all the rest of the Industry mouthpieces has never been able to produce one-iota of physical evidence to back up any of the servile arse-licking he espouses these days. He is also drunk on his own ego. He is currently on a trip to the “extermination sites”, as he obediently calls them. The idiot has never been able to show any evidence of such exterminations. Everything to be seen at these locations is nothing more than post-war props. These places are nothing but tacky, hastily contrived tourist attractions to the most obtuse and niave elements in society. Dumb-Goy and all that!

  1544. With now over one and a half thousand comments this ‘discussion’ reminds me of what Turkish historians once remarked about the asserted Armenian genocide ‘this genocide is such a part of the Armenian identity, that it will never go away’.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  1545. @HdC

    No such mass murder is described in
    Helmuth Fechner, ´Deutschland und Polen, 1772 – 1945’, Würzburg 1964
    However, that Poland discriminated, and worse, Germans, is decribed, not just in this book.

  1546. @Colin Wright

    What I know about Lithuania, from books, and what a foreigner living there for a long time, speaking the language, told me, when I was there, my idea is that when the Germans were coming, in the short period without a government, also no occupation authority, the Lithuanians grabbed their chance.
    Economic oppression was the motive, is my idea.
    This foreigner also told me that Lithuanians do not want to discuss their past with jews.
    My idea about this: on the one hand they’re glad that they’re not under jewish economic exploitation any more, on the other, they’re not proud of what they did.
    Possibly elsewhere comparable things happened.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1547. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    The Bolshevik progeny in Israel in action against the native Palestinians: “Israel’s Criminal Blockade of Gaza: Day 30 – Israeli Military Has Still Not Released 114 Boxes of Medical Supplies for Gaza:” https://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-criminal-blockade-of-gaza-day-30-israeli-military-has-still-not-release-114-boxes-of-medical-supplies-for-gaza/5652493
    “6,729 people have been wounded by gunfire including 1,140 children, 203 women, 78 journalists and 103 paramedics. Among those wounded, 422 are in serious condition and 69 people have had lower or upper limbs amputated. Statistics of the injured only include those directly hit with bullets and tear gas canisters, but there are thousands of other people who have suffered tear gas inhalation and sustained bruises.”

  1548. annamaria says:
    @peterAUS

    “For most of the people here, I am Hasbara troll” — correct.

  1549. Otterboy says:
    @cassandra

    All my nieces, nephews, cousin’s kids have been through this systemic brainwashing. They are all damaged. However one of the nieces, the younger one was extremely affected by her full-on brainwashing trip to Auschwitz. Since then she does not want to know or have any association with any gentiles, she’s very withdrawn, miserable, paranoid and said that as soon as she finishes her studies she’s definitely going to live in Israel because it’s the only safe place for Jews. Extreme anti-gentilism

    My brother, her father, who ‘lapsed’ (or should I say liberated himself) much later than the other three brothers, told me his biggest regret was sending his kids to a Jewish school as he can now see the consequences of that fateful decision. She has been instilled with a strong sense of choseness and anti-gentilism along with a permanent sense of paranoia. All other areas of her personal development are severely lacking

    This is why I will now always refer to that group as a holocaust cult. The characteristics are identical to a cult

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1550. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous[299]: “Many of you have been indoctrinated into this hateful, needless “battle” from an early age.”
    — Don’t project. The only tribe that has been historically busy with the hateful indoctrination of their young against all “others” is Jewish tribe.

    “Unfortunately, it’s too late to fix it now without massive bloodshed. … When the pendulum swings there’ll be no mercy.”
    — The Jewish Bolsheviks had already demonstrated the degree of monstrosity, inhumanness, and the vicious cruelty that the Jews are able to exercise against the “others.” It is well known that your tribe is able to produce (and produced) the most repulsive sadists, liars, and swindlers.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Colin Wright
  1551. crimson2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    First, as has already been noted here, revisionists are under absolutely no obligation

    lol. You Nazi clowns want to overthrow a broad historical consensus. That requires something more than shouting “All Jews are liars! All Germans who confessed are liars!” and “When the document said ‘gassing cellar’ is wasn’t talking about THAT kind of gas!”

    This is why you are a bunch of miserable failures who have to fabricate quotations to gain even a little bit of traction amongst your own worthless scum.

    And when I saw worthless scum, I’m talking to you personally, Mrs. Beefcake. You are nothing, a lowlife. But not by nature. You can accept your own failure and not blame it on some Jewish cabal. Good luck.

  1552. @FKA Max

    Samuel Crowell’s a superb find, thanks I really enjoy his lucid, calm and philosophical style. Please read this superb book of his which is an investigation into why the stories of the Gas chambers were so widely believed,

    The gas chamber of Sherlock Holmes

    https://codoh.com/library/document/5890/?lang=en

  1553. @crimson2

    Poor lil enraged Kike, you want to burn us heretics at stake don’t you for not believing in your macabre fairy tale. Your risible death cult is on its last legs kike which’s why you make blasphemy laws.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1554. Superb find by CODOH – Stephen Wise the then president of WJC stating that 1.25 – 1.5 million Polish Jews still alive in Europe after the Holocaust. This combined with the millions who escaped to Russia answers the ‘where did they go’ question doesn’t it.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191

    To paraphrase Mark Twain – there’re lies, damned lies and the Holocaust.

    • Replies: @j2
  1555. Hans says:

    Don Heddesheimer’s The First Holocaust —The Surprising Origin of the Six-Million Figure is a must-read text on the subject.

    Available at http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=1012&play=138#watch

    The video version:

    • Replies: @Wally
  1556. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    The only tribe that has been historically busy with the hateful indoctrination of their young against all “others” is Jewish tribe.

    True. I was talking to a Jew so there’s no projection.

  1557. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    You, like lots of commenters here, hate jewish power. And you’re right. Power is evil.

    Bullshit. Power doesn’t have to be evil and even when it is, there are limits.

    Right now, the Tribe is trying to genocide my race. We’re not going to solve it with love. It’s a lethal, parasitic infestation so we’re not gonna hug it out.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  1558. Otterboy says:
    @anonymous

    Thank you for great comment

    But , imho, what you don’t understand is that the problem isn’t one of revenge or replacing that power for white/black/yellow power. If the nature of power is evil, then, w/o being for anarchy, we can try to build a society where men have less power over other men.”

    Well stated and I couldn’t agree more.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  1559. Mulegino1 says:

    It is not up to revisionists to show where the alleged missing Jews went, since the believers already profess to know the answer as irrefutable historical fact, i.e., that the bulk of them went to six specific locations: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka II, Majdanek, Sobibor, Chelmno and Belzec.

    As such, it is up to the believers in this calumnious blood libel fantasy to find and quantify their remains, as the Germans did at Katyn, using then state of the art forensic methods. Since, owing to the lack of any human remains or mass graves commensurate with tens of thousands, let alone hundreds of thousands of remains they cannot do so, they make up all kinds of stories about bone grinding mills, impossible outdoor cremations, magical crematories with utterly impossible capacities, etc.

    The Holohoax is like the legend of Procrustes, who lopped off his victims’ body parts to make them fit into his bed. The evidence must fit the narrative, not vice versa. One sees the same thing happening with other official narratives; the best physical evidence is not important and discarded, while the weakest evidence in the evidentiary chain after mere hearsay- eyewitness testimony- is elevated to the level of the sacrosanct and unquestionable.

    The so called “Holocaust” is only tenable as a vague and nebulous pseudo-religious narrative; it breaks down at a discrete and factual level.

    Did some Jews die in the Second World War? Unquestionably. Far more European Christians perished- even in proportion to numbers, and in most cases, in conditions far more horrific than summary execution on the Eastern Front, as befell many partisans and the Jewish commissars. Also, were the Jewish inhabitants of Europe entitled to special immunity from the general depredations of war inflicted upon the Christian inhabitants of their host countries?

    The so called “Holocaust” is a confluence of Talmudic litigiousness and ingratitude, Soviet, British, Polish and international Jewish/Zionist propaganda, and American messianism and exceptionalism. After all, the Americans and their plucky British allies righteously put to death hundreds of thousands of innocent German, French, Italian, and Japanese civilians by indiscriminate bombing, up to the point of burning them to death by incendiary bombardment and the first use of atomic weaponry.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1560. Otterboy says:
    @Nicholas Manousos

    I think this was the first star studded series that brought the word into the mainstream? I might be wrong but this one is from 1978

    Holocaust
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077025/

  1561. Wally says:
    @Hans

    Indeed, compelling information.

    Yet the book doesn’t go back far enough.

    Jews have been whining about their fake 6,000,000 since at least 1823.

    6 MILLION?


    and: http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    http://www.codoh.com

  1562. EugeneGur says:
    @peterAUS

    For you and your types

    What type am I, exactly? More to the point, what type are you?

    You are trying to present yourself as an objective detached observer looking from high and above on a miserable crowd of poorly informed biased individuals bleating something on the subjects they understand nothing of. Sorry to disappoint but you don’t come across like that but rather like someone with affectations.

    It’s usually makes for amore interesting conversation when ad hominem arguments are avoided, and people stick to the matter at hand.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  1563. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Hey dumb Zionist, witchcraft was “a broad historical consensus” too. LOL
    Actual “Jewish cabals”:

    – Israel’s Fifth Column, Exercising control from inside the government: https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-fifth-column-2/
    – America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars: https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-jews-are-driving-americas-wars/#comment-2012898
    – The True Cost of Parasite Israel, Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/
    -Who runs the media & ‘Hollywood’?

    [MORE]

  1564. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    I suspect we aren’t actually disagreeing.

    Possibly. I just dislike arguments like “Stalin wanted”, “Stalin intended”, “Stalin expected” (try “Putin wants to restore the Soviet Union” to the same effect). I don’t mind them as a figure of speech but they are so grossly overused as real arguments as if it is something known or could possibly be known. I prefer to stick to documented facts or, at the very least, to logical speculations, with good understanding of the difference between the two.

    I can be a very disagreeable guy if I put my mind to it.

    I guess we have that in common.

  1565. j2 says:
    @Undecided

    What do you say about the possibility that Nazis had a deal with Zionists and they handed the Jews to Zionists. Some of these Jews were allowed to emigrate, others were given to Soviets. I tried to summarize the fate of Jews from the West in
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/04/fate-of-jews-in-the-west-and-western-poland-from-yad-vashem-numbers/

    It uses the previous post
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/02/yad-vashem-numbers-show-the-same-as-my-earlier-calculations/

    I copy the last part of the post:
    Notice that emigration out of Europe would have happened from Eastern Europe, for instance from ports of Romania to Turkey, Libya, Egypt and so on and from there to Palestine if possible. In this scenario Nazis took Jews to the East through Operation Reinhard camps, robbed them in the camps and gave them to Zionists. Zionists selected some for illegal emigration, as emigration possibilities were limited. The rest would have been given to Soviets for the time when they could emigrate to Israel. It seems curious to me that Soviet Jews were allowed to emigrate from the year 1989 since the period 1948-1988 is 40 years. It fits so well to the Exodus story where the people had to be in the wilderness for 40 years.

    If you look at the numbers, you see that 900,000 Jews emigrated from Europe. They are both escaping Germans before they came and possible Jews, who were given by Germans to Zionists. It is of course logical to assume that Germans did not let Jews go free or hand them directly to Soviets, yet that is exactly what happened to the Jews who were left to camps when Germans withdrew: they were left there and they were free, Soviets were coming and thus Germans gave them to Soviets. Eichmann says that 200,000 Jews were left in this way to Auschwitz to Soviets. So, your logical argument that they would not do so is false in the case of camps. They did so.

    I agree that one should try to explain what happened to these Jews. The problem is that there is no information as to what happened to these Jews. This is why revisionists (which I am not) prefer to leave the fate of the Jews to be found out by other researchers. They cannot say anything which can be proven. I have taken the liberty to speculate. So, this is my scenario. Maybe totally wrong, maybe partially correct. The fact is that there is no data.

    • Replies: @Undecided
  1566. j2 says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    “Stephen Wise the then president of WJC stating that 1.25 – 1.5 million Polish Jews still alive in Europe after the Holocaust.”

    This is actually quite possible. In a certain way it is correct to say that only 300,000 Polish Jews survived the war, but in saying so the definition of a Polish Jew is different before the war and after the war. There were 1.84M Jews in Western Poland and the Poland after the war was essentially Western Poland. There were 1.41M Jews in the Eastern Poland, but after the war they were Soviet Jews, so not counted any more as Polish Jews. Of the 1.84M about 300,000 survived so that the West knew about them. There may have been more in the Soviet Union but it is not known. Quite many survived of the 1.41M Jews of Eastern Poland, but as said, they were not surviving Polish Jews.

  1567. @jilles dykstra

    ‘…My idea about this: on the one hand they’re glad that they’re not under jewish economic exploitation any more, on the other, they’re not proud of what they did.
    Possibly elsewhere comparable things happened.’

    The problem can be seen as fundamentally one of dishonesty — or partial dishonesty.

    On the one hand, we have the absurdities of outright Holocaust denial — but on the other, we have this presentation of events as if gentiles have always wanted to slaughter the Jews, that’s the way gentiles are, and the Jews themselves were perfect innocents who had done nothing to bring their fate about. The Third Reich, for example, was at least partially a reaction to bolshevism and the cultural degeneracy of the Weimar era — yet how often do histories of the period lay emphasis on the prominence of Jews in those phenomena?

    This veers towards appearing to blame the Jews themselves for their fate — but a good deal of the truth lies therein. I can only appeal once again to the metaphor of a woman dressing in scanty clothing and going walking in a bad part of town at 2:00 am. The rapist is obviously culpable — but we can hardly say the woman herself did nothing to bring on her fate.

    The Nazis — and many Poles, and many Balts, and presumably many others — weren’t just born filled with Goldhagen’s ‘eliminationist anti-semitism.’ They conceived these sentiments for a reason, and that reason is part of the story.

    Both are inaccurate. No one would pretend Dresden didn’t happen at all, but only a Wally would insist the Germans had done nothing at all to bring the fate upon themselves. Similarly for Jewry, considered as a category. No doubt the bulk were innocent. At the same time, the association of many with some perfectly genuine sources of grievance was an inescapable fact.

    It could all do with some disciplined study and discussion. However, we don’t get that. We get persistent attempts to perfect the moral clarity of the situation. So many want to pretend — in one way or another — about the Holocaust. Either it didn’t happen at all, or an awful fate was visited upon a perfectly innocent Jewry — full stop.

  1568. @crimson2

    ‘…Nazi clowns…you are a bunch of miserable failures…worthless scum…worthless scum, I’m talking to you personally, Mrs. Beefcake. You are nothing, a lowlife…accept your own failure…’

    I assume you’re not trying to win any converts to your point of view.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1569. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    LENGTHY, please select’ MORE’ if necessary.

    said: “I’m no expert but to me that claim is almost as bad as saying all the bodies disappeared.”
    Illogical, strawman Zionist BS.
    Your comparison is fake, apples & oranges. Making the alleged 11,000,000, ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ disappear is impossible. Seizure of the outbound trains records is not and quite predictable.
    Outbound train records would include place of origin, stops, numbers & destinations; but those records are hidden or destroyed. Simple as that. Your dodge of their value is telling.

    So why are you asking ‘where Jews went’ when in fact you dodge the actual claim of ‘where Jews allegedly did go’ …
    to immense mass graves in allegedly known locations, which do not exist

    You mention the Reinhardt sites, here’s two alleged immense mass graves at Reinhardt sites:

    [MORE]

    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    everyone, see:
    ‘J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    WJC’s Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 – 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191

    Jews evacuated to USSR during war: https://archive.is/jA9iI

    and: more Jews evacuated to USSR during war
    https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees
    exc.:
    “Since the outbreak of the war hundreds of thousands of Jews from Poland, Rumania and the Baltic countries have been given shelter in the U.S.S.R., and many of them were permitted to pass through Russia en route to the United States and to Palestine.”

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Undecided
  1570. @annamaria

    ‘…The only tribe that has been historically busy with the hateful indoctrination of their young against all “others” is Jewish tribe…’

    Oh now you see, that’s just not true. Quite often, people point to Jewish failings as if they are unique to Jews.

    Ever heard Armenians or Greeks go on about Turks? My parents were almost literally lynched in Yugoslavia in 1957 when the passengers on a bus got the idea they were Germans. I’ve a long story which involves a black grandmother repeating, as a mantra, in the presence of her grandson, ‘Ah hates white folks.’ Conversely and to be frank, my children have heard me go on, and on, and on, about blacks.

    Most of us do it — in varying degrees, of course. Jews aren’t even close to being unique in this regard.

    The snowy innocence of Jewry qua Jewry is nonsense. However, so is the notion that they are uniquely evil or even clannish. If they look out for their own interests above all and clutch an unspoken sense of their intrinsic superiority to their own breast, they’re not alone in that regard.

    Curiously, the most serious complaint that could be leveled at them is the same one that could be leveled at the Germans. They’re too good at their job. Jews haven’t gained wildly disproportionate power and influence because they’re bad. They’ve gained it because they’re good at gaining power and influence.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1571. @Mulegino1

    ‘…The so called “Holocaust” is a confluence of Talmudic litigiousness and ingratitude, Soviet, British, Polish and international Jewish/Zionist propaganda, and American messianism and exceptionalism. After all, the Americans and their plucky British allies righteously put to death hundreds of thousands of innocent German, French, Italian, and Japanese civilians by indiscriminate bombing, up to the point of burning them to death by incendiary bombardment and the first use of atomic weaponry.’

    It’s not a crime if you do it from an altitude of ten thousand feet or more. This is an established principle.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  1572. j2 says:
    @Undecided

    “It also seems completely unlikely they were just dropped off in Soviet territory and wished good luck, because wouldn’t they all just go sign up with the Red Army and promptly make war on Germany?
    Is there any precedent for dumping people into enemy territory during wartime?”

    I forgot to answer this your question. The case is that Germans kept people who could work and gave out only people who could not. People who could not work could not fight in that war any more, but they could vote and most could be cured in time with proper care. They were still useful for a new nation. As for precedents for dumping people into enemy territory during wartime, there may not be precisely similar cases, but consider the following:
    – usually you let the enemy to take their wounded soldiers, though most do come back after a time in a hospital. It is because wounded soldiers tie other soldiers. It is good to wound 1/3 because the rest 2/3 will have to carry the wounded and cannot do anything in their mission.
    – Castro freed to the USA prisoners, who were not fit to live in freedom as they were professional criminals. This way he dumped people to the enemy territory and it was a kind of a wartime.
    But of course the idea of Germans was not that these people would join the Red Army. I believe they ended to some gulag and Germans had to get something from the exchange, like trucks. Eichmann told he tried to negotiate such a deal with Budapest Jews. See what FKA max posted in this thread.

  1573. ‘What do you say about the possibility that Nazis had a deal with Zionists and they handed the Jews to Zionists. Some of these Jews were allowed to emigrate, others were given to Soviets…’

    Then we would have thousands — tens of thousands — of reminiscences of Jews who experienced this.

    Jews — the fantasies of anti-semites notwithstanding — aren’t a monolithic bloc. If things happen — and happen to millions of people — the story gets out. Much of the information we have about the atrocities Israel committed in 1948 was collected from Jews themselves.

    But we are to suppose millions of Jews made the sort of odysseys you describe — but left few records of their passage.

    I doubt it. I doubt there was a gigantic Indian empire centered here in Southern Oregon. Why? Because if there had been, there would be traces, and there aren’t any. If most of the Jews of — say — Bialystok had actually survived, there’d be lots of ‘Bialystok clubs’ here and there filled with old gaffers.

    But there aren’t any. Go figure.

    So I remain convinced that at least most of the great six million were actually killed by the Nazis. It remains the only plausible explanation of their fate. You say, ‘the fact is that there is no data.’ The absence of data is evidence itself. What you describe didn’t happen.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
    , @Undecided
    , @Wally
  1574. Heros says:
    @anonymous

    In one of his replies above, Otterboy stated that he does not believe jews have a plan to eliminate white Christians from the planet and from history. I find this hard to believe because one can easily observe this ongoing cultural genocide simply through their attacks on White monuments to Confederates and Federalists alike.

    But what Otterboy is missing, and apparently yourself as well, is that we goyim have learned a lot about the Talmud, and its place in history as well. Most, if not virtually all, goyim reading this AP series on UR are very aware of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and although we cannot be certain of its origin, we do believe it to be a true representation of the plans of the early international jewish conferences. Of course goyim commenting here also know about the Morgentau plan, the Houton plan, and of course the Kalergy plan. All of these plans have as their ultimate goal the elimination of every trace of the various white European tribes.

    One can also trace similar goals to the Freemasons, who have been working to destroy Christian European culture hand in hand with the jews.

    So when you and Otterboy imply that the issue is power corrupting all members of every race or social group equally to the jews, who clearly are pulling all the strings, then I would have to say that this assertion is laughable.

    It appears to me that “woke” denialist jews still have a long row to hoe before they can attain any kind of understanding of the rage building up with Europeans across the world. We also know that it is jews who are encouraging blacks to plunder and rape whites, and then using their talmudic child sacrifice coverup “charities” like ADL and SPLC to provide legal cover for blacks. Simultaneously these organizations are constantly waging lawfare against whites in general, and against “holocaust deniers” in specifically.

    You and Otterboy failed to mention that this “corrupt power” never seems to target jews in precisely the same way ISIS never attacks Israel. This is jew privilege. Jews, like you and Otterboy, have not only benefited from being members of this elite club and all the doors it opens, but you have also benefited from its umbrella of protection. This has been going on for generations and centuries, so it is very rare to find a jew who is really self aware.

    I will close by explaining once again why I refer to source of all this evil being perpetrated against the goyim as “the jews”.

    Most importantly I have never heard any jew deliberate over the role of various tribes and groups of Germans. What proportion of the 6 million gassed and genocided jews did the Bavarians kill? What about the Allemendi tribes from Baden, when did you ever hear jews kvetching about their share of the 6 million. Do jews worry that Alsacian Germans were clearly invaded and forced to fight for the Reich.

    In short, jews really don’t care what kind of Christian it is that they murder, after all it is genocide of our entire race that they are after. Palestinians, Germans, Brits, Swedes, they are all schmucks, and the Rabbi’s say to kill the best of them first. So to me it is quite simple, all jews are jews until they actively accept and at apologize for their forefathers grievous crimes and transgressions against Europeans over the centuries. That includes you and Otterboy too. Ron Unz’s failure to make a clear stand on these issues that he writes in AP about also puts him this same judaic denialist camp too.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  1575. cassandra says:
    @Otterboy

    All my nieces, nephews, cousin’s kids have been through this systemic brainwashing. They are all damaged.

    …as is all of western civilization.

    The west’s perceptions are being saturated with emotion-laden narratives contrived to evoke public emotions, much in the same way as the schoolgirls in the video being taught “feelings” during their tour. The uncritical level of public discussion permits this to go on without too much attention to the veracity of “supporting” information. Indeed, simple examination of these conformist views is sufficient cause for condemnation. And the condemnation isn’t always just simple denigration: people who debate the fate of Jews in World War II openly must conform or be confined, not in a labor camp, true, but imprisoned by state policy nonetheless. Dissenters have become society’s pariahs.

    In the Holocaust debate, the main, not so subtly hidden, bone of contention is not so much what events actually happened, as to what attitudes Gentile & Jew should have toward each other. The situation sought by the propagandists is that the Jew should feel persecuted, and resentful at that persecution. Everyone else should feel suitably overwhelmed by guilt at their inbuilt anti-Semitism, always ready to leap out and recreate the horrors so dramatically portrayed in the Holocaust Museums, which should therefore be acknowledged and crushed at the slightest hint, even if criticised behavior bears only indirectly (e.g., “islamophobia”).

    Douglas Murray’s Strange Death of Europe documents results of this program. However, it is becoming clearer that the agenda is elitist rather than populist, an we are now witnessing a back-reaction to the resulting incurious elite incompetence. An exposure of the propaganda is a necessary cleansing, and one hopes that people of good will can limit responsibility and blame to deserving culprits rather than duped innocents.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1576. @Colin Wright

    ” but only a Wally would insist the Germans had done nothing at all to bring the fate upon themselves. ”
    Not just Wally, metoo, in this case.
    I see Germans of victims since 1914 to this day.
    Their one and only crime: a Germany unified by the French attack of 1870, developing at a dazzling speed: scientifically, technically, economic, social.
    With good social care German workers around 1900 got a higher income than British workers with hardly any care: unemployment insurance, health insurance, pensions.
    Thus, already in 1907 Balfour said to the USA ambassaor ‘that perhaps war was the cheapest way of maintaining the British standard of living’, he omitted ‘for the rich’.

  1577. @crimson2

    ” You Nazi clowns want to overthrow a broad historical consensus ”
    There was a broad historical consensus that the Roman empire was great, not just geographical, but as a society.
    Alas, archeology disturbed the consensus.
    Excavations now have shown that each beautiful Pompei villa, the part above the surface, depended on some fifty slaves in uncomfortable cellars.
    The horrible Roman society is well described in
    Michel Rostovtzeff, ‘Geschichte der Alten Welt, zweiter Band, Rom’, Bremen 1961 (The History of the Ancient World)
    I must add that Roman society was not much worse, seen through present eyes, than other societies ate the time, or a bit later
    E. A. Freeman, ‘Western Europe, In the fifth century, An Aftermath’, London 1904
    Herwich Wolfram, ‘History of the Goths’, Berkeley 1988, München 1979
    Solomon Katz, ‘The Jews in the Visigothic and Frankish Kingdoms of Spain and Gaul’, Cambridge 1937
    Consensus has nothing to do with truth, the modern truth, based on facts.
    I often wonder if jews ever got to the stage of objective truth.
    For the development of the concept see
    Felipe Fernández-Armesto, ‘Truth, A History and a Guide for the Perplexed’, New York 1997

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1578. Mulegino1 says:
    @Colin Wright

    Exactly. Shooting one person at point blank range (like that fake picture of the woman and child in front of the rifle squad which is shooting at something in the distance) has a stronger effect on the popular imagination than those Allied newsreels showing the incineration of Dresden. There is no “objective encounter” at ten thousand feet.

    That kind of validates Stalin’s “One man’s death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”

  1579. @jilles dykstra

    ” I see Germans of victims since 1914 to this day.”
    Disturbing typing errors, should have been
    ‘ I see Germans AS victims, since 1914, to this day. ‘

  1580. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    > It is not irrelevant and you know it.

    It is entirely irrelevant, and you know it.

    Just found by commenter Grahamsno(G64) https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2499084

    Regarding my comment you arrogantly dismissed earlier:

    > Why do you believe Polish Jews would, voluntarily, want to return to Poland when they were not just being discriminated against,persecuted, abused and murdered by Germans/Nazis, but also by Poles?

    All of this irrelevant to the point being made. In any case, the number of the deported refugees is documented.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494979

    A September 1945 letter sent from Stephen Wise, the President of the World Jewish Congress (WJC), to a friend and colleague in the US. Wise was in Europe overseeing Jewish relief operations, revealed that:

    [there are]…one and a quarter to one and a half million homeless Jews on the European continent, afraid to return to Poland for they rightly dread pogroms, with only one place to go — Palestine.’

    source: Author: POLIER J.W. AND WISE J.W. EDIT.:
    Title: The Personal Letters of Stephen Wise.
    Description: Boston, Boston Press. 1956. Hb. illustrated.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191 Archived link: http://archive.is/rAFyY#selection-467.0-467.198

    I have received the actual pages below from the work cited in the OP, The Personal Letters of Stephen Wise, from Forum participant Henry.
    Many thanks for his effort.
    M1

    http://archive.is/rAFyY#selection-1341.0-1349.2

    Archived screenshot here: http://archive.is/NsNkr/image

    • Replies: @utu
  1581. peterAUS says:
    @Colin Wright

    Pretty much.
    And that’s why, among some other reasons, the brainwashing, though control and censorship (including re “Holocaust”) is stepping up.

  1582. peterAUS says:
    @EugeneGur

    What type am I, exactly?

    “Russian type”. Or a Jew, for the same reason.Nazi regime 100 % bad. Nothing good there.

    More to the point, what type are you?

    You already made you mind about that:

    …someone with affectations.

    It’s usually makes for amore interesting conversation when ad hominem arguments are avoided, and people stick to the matter at hand.

    Not for me with the “all or nothing” crowd. Those who, for any reason imaginable, can’t see any grays.
    As

    In some situations, there simply aren’t any grey areas. Oh, I’ve read in the Nazi Germany domestic and property disputes were settled very quickly and efficiently. That must be good, correct? If you believe that this good somehow balances out the Nazi’s killing, burning, starving millions, when you are, well, how do I put it, a remarkably balanced individual.

    I don’t use my time and effort with 100 % people.
    I agree(d) with some parts of some of your posts and that’s it. Probably will in the future, and that’s all.
    Like with, say, around 20 % of posters here. Or the same percentage of people in “real”. Those who can see grays everywhere where human nature is concerned.

  1583. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “The absence of data is evidence itself. What you describe didn’t happen.”

    If this is so, then they were not murdered as there is absence of data to prove it. But, if most of the Jews died in gulags in the Soviet Union, where were the Bialystok clubs? There are numbers that show how many emigrated and mathematics does not match without 260,000 actually coming from the Soviet Union of 1940, and they were not original Soviet Jews. That is more evidence than what there is that they were all murdered.

  1584. Otterboy says:
    @cassandra

    Thank you for your great comment

    “Everyone else should feel suitably overwhelmed by guilt at their inbuilt anti-Semitism, always ready to leap out and recreate the horrors so dramatically portrayed in the Holocaust Museums,…”

    I’m glad you mentioned “inbuilt”. We were taught by the orthodox rabbis that all gentiles (affectionately known as goyim) were born with a disease called antisemitism. A virulent disease which can result in the irrational hatred of Jews and can express itself at any time. In other words there is no cause, just effect which comes out of nowhere. It’s got nothing to do with the actions of Jews but everything to do with this “inbuilt” virulent disease lurking in the brain of every goy waiting to express itself at any given moment .

    Not all Jews believe this definition but most of the orthodox Jews do as well as many non orthodox Jews. I’ve debated many secular Jews who firmly believe this definition of antisemitism

    In the film, there’s the part where the Israeli girls walk past a bench with some old Polish men sitting down who ask them an innocent polite question in Polish, which they don’t understand but their Jewish guide tells them that the Polish men said something abusive and antisemitic. This reinforces what they’ve been told and taught at home and in schools and creates fear, paranoia and anti-gentilism. They go out looking for antisemitism and invent it where necessary because it’s the glue that binds the cult together

    Best wishes

  1585. Robjil says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Yes, that is why Germany was targeted in 1914. Britain/Judea hate any culture that treats their masses nicely. Germany in 1914 was treating its huddled masses too kindly. This was a horror to Britain/Judea. Germany must perish was the motto for that. A book with the title “Germany must perish” was written by Theodore Newman Kaufman, a Jewish American. It was published in 1941. It called for sterilization of all Germans. He said this would make “world peace”. What a joke the Zionists are the ones that love the wars the most. In our time after the Zion 911 false flag, the Zionists motto has been that “seven nations must be destroyed” in the middle east. This “Germany must perish” book scared the Germans to fight on. The Germans noticed the deliberate targeting of civilians by the British/ American bombs. The book seemed quite real to them. The massive tidal wave of bombing civilians of Germany was a crime against humanity and history. Dresden was at the end of the war. It was a horrible crime against humanity and history. War against civilians is the most barbaric thing that humanity does. Wars are fought between soldiers is what war is. War on civilians is genocide. Full stop. If the Judaic people suffered so much in WW2, why are they calling for a tidal wave destruction of the middle east. Seven nations to destroy idea comes directly out of the Old Testament – Deuteronomy 7.1-2. Any normal people who suffered so much would have sympathy for the suffering of others.

  1586. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “So I remain convinced that at least most of the great six million were actually killed by the Nazis”

    Even as only 4.5M are missing by directly calculating the difference between the populations in 1939 and 1946 from AJ Yearbooks, taking the known and documented emigration into account? Please, do the calculation yourself and you see that it is not six million.

    It was estimated that there were 6 million Jews in the word in 1850 but at that time they were not being exterminated as that was the total. They were 3M in Europe and 3M elsewhere. During the Russian pogroms there were 6M (well, actually 5M) in Russia, so it was 2/3 of the total 9 million. They were to be exterminated since at the end of the times there is exodus to Palestine and just before it 2/3 die. Then during the world wars there was about 9 million in Europe, so 6 million was again 2/3 of the total. Therefore 6 million were to be exterminated in a holocaust before Jews could return to Palestine. This is a messianic number, a symbolic number. It is 2/3 of the total, only the total has to be selected. 6 is a number with significance and 2/3 is prophetic.

    “Jews — the fantasies of anti-semites notwithstanding — aren’t a monolithic bloc.”

    Jewish Holocaust believers are a monolithic block, but there are Jewish Holocaust revisionists who think all of those Jews were not murdered, so you are right, all are not a monolithic block.

    Are you sure Jews knew through what transit camp they passed and where they ended up? They were taken from a camp to a camp and most camps look alike. Then they were liberated and sent somewhere to the Soviet Union. After the war they concluded they could not have been in any of the Operation Reinhard camps as they are still alive. How could they know where they were? Did the Nazis tell that now we go to Treblinka, have a stop there, then we continue to a camp outside Minsk? We will keep you all well-informed where you are so that you can report it after the war.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Colin Wright
  1587. @Kratoklastes

    Dammit… I meant Israel Shamir (although I have also read Shahak’s “Jewish History, Jewish Religion” – for which Shahak has copped the same accusations as Shamir).

    I’m obviously Alzheimering my way towards dotage – when you can’t sort your Shamirs from your Shahaks, you’re a schlemiel whose brain is turning into a schemozzle.

    • LOL: Mike P
  1588. cassandra says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I may have mentioned that I’ve been reading the eye-opening “1939 – The War That Had Many Fathers.” Author Gerd Schultze-Ronhof went to state archives, by his account, to find armament levels before WWII. He discovered that WWI was an effort to keep Germany in its place and prevent it from entering the company of major nations. Based on what I’ve read so far, the Germans were behaving assertively but not outrageously aggressively, which couldn’t be tolerated. Taken all together, WWI itself, the Treaty of Versailles, the war debt, the Potsdam Agreement, and, yes, even the Holocaust legend, appear to be a series of efforts to break the German people by force and their spirit (and self-preservation) by guilt. Which of Germany’s responses were or were not ethically justifiable is moot, but reaction shouldn’t have been surprising given their mistreatment by the “Allies”. My opinion is yet-to-be-determined.)

    Here’s the hour-long “Cliff Notes” version of Schultze-Ronhof’s book with English subtitles:

    (There’s a 2 1/2 hour version for those who understand German).

    What strikes me is that Russia is being treated now as Germany was a century ago, subjected to a flimsy but readily-swallowed propaganda campaign to isolate Putin geopolitically. Pray that cooler heads prevail, and that the propaganda fails.

  1589. Undecided says:
    @j2

    What do you say about the possibility that Nazis had a deal with Zionists and they handed the Jews to Zionists.

    Thanks for answering. Much appreciated. That said, I consider this possibility to be unlikely in the extreme because we already know about the Nazi-Zionist deal (the transfer agreement) and there just isn’t any evidence at all that it included Zionists receiving Jews in Poland, Belarus, or Russia from Germany in order to further transit them south (over mountains!) to Palestine. It’s a Rube Goldberg machine with no evidence.

    However, I really do applaud you for at least offering a speculation. I mean that sincerely. As I said before, if revisionists want to change anyone’s minds, they’re going to have to help explain the fate of all those Jews who were last seen in German custody.

    • Replies: @j2
  1590. Undecided says:
    @Wally

    Thanks for answering. I really do appreciate it. You’re still mistaking my genuine curiosity about this question for disagreement about gas chambers and mass graves that haven’t been located. It’s not. But if huge numbers of Jews were last seen in Germany custody, I reiterate that revisionists will have to help figure out what did happen to them if they want to change people’s minds. Calling the status of those people a ‘canard’ isn’t going to persuade anyone. You’ve arguably demoted the case of the missing Jews from a ‘missing: presumed dead’ to ‘missing.’ Good. So, where did they go?

    Let me try again with your point. You allude to records of outbound trains going missing. So far it’s all been in the passive voice. Who do you suppose stole those records, and when? Germans, Soviets, Jews?

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Wally
    , @j2
  1591. utu says:
    @j2

    There were movements of Jews to USSR (Poland occupied by Soviets) before June 22, 1941 but there is no single bit of evidence that any Jews were transferred to Soviet custody afterwards. Most of the movements were grass root spontaneous but it is possible that in some cases Germans facilitated border crossings. I encountered it once reading about Nisko and Lublin Plan where some Polish and Czech Jews from Silesia were moved in 1939. The whole project collapsed and Jews were allowed to return by themselves back to places where they came from in 1940. But supposedly some of the Jews were herded across the San or Bug rivers to the USSR occupied zone.

    You have zero evidence for your hypothesis yet you keep repeating it over and over again.

    • Replies: @j2
  1592. utu says:
    @FKA Max

    Stephen Wise wrote this:

    [there are]…one and a quarter to one and a half million homeless Jews on the European continent, afraid to return to Poland for they rightly dread pogroms, with only one place to go — Palestine.’

    or rather he wrote this:

    [there are]…one and a quarter to one and a half million homeless Jews on the European continent, afraid to return to Poland for they rightly dread pogroms, with only one place to go — Palestine.

    Stephen Wise would write anything to open Palestine for Jewish settlements.

  1593. Undecided says:
    @Colin Wright

    I agree. Someone, somewhere, would have said so if this was the case.

    Also, as I understand it, the revisionist argument simply passes the exterminationist buck from the Nazi gas chambers to the Soviet gulags. But there’s no evidence for that at all, and no one has ever even claimed it.

    I am genuinely puzzled. The evidence for mass graves isn’t there, or isn’t being shown. Fine. So, what next? What happened to those missing people?

    • Replies: @Hegwood
    , @utu
    , @Colin Wright
    , @Wally
  1594. Turpitz says:
    @Anon

    How remarkable of Irving to bandy about such figures without the slightest evidence, what a fool he makes of himself. And remember, one must not confuse the improbable with the impossible.

  1595. Mike P says:
    @Undecided

    But if huge numbers of Jews were last seen in German custody, I reiterate that revisionists will have to help figure out what did happen to them if they want to change people’s minds.

    It stands to reason that in the chaos of post-war central Europe a lot of people dashed off in all directions to get on with their lives, without informing any central authorities. However, only the living ones could do so; the dead ones would have faced certain technical difficulties. So, if someone vanished without a trace at that time, it is likely that they were alive, not dead.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1596. Hegwood says:
    @Undecided

    What happened to Jewish population of Poland is not the question. The subject is holocaust denial and the question is “was there an attempted genocide of the European Jews by the National Socialist government of Germany during World War II?”. If you really want to know what happened to them go to it. Do the research. Maybe you can write a book.

    My only contribution to your research is to assure you that a million and a half of them were not murdered and piled on grates, set on fire, and turned into ashes.

    ——
    My conversion from a complete holocaust believer into a complete denier begins and ends with stories of the alleged open air burning of corpses of murdered Jews by the Germans. The description of these alleged events struck me as so preposterous that little else was necessary to bring me to the realization that the holocaust was a complete hoax. It was not only immediately clear that these alleged holocaust events were totally impossible but also that “respected” Jewish leaders and their political lackeys who force feed this stuff to the world population are a bunch of liars.

    I did not start out prejudiced, I did not pre-judge, the judgement was fairly earned. Nothing except the words and actions of Jewish leaders when discussing the Holocaust led me to believe there is a core dishonesty to Judaism. It is deeply ingrained in some Jews, but not all.

    The bookends of my conversion were the description of open air burning of corpses at Treblinka by Yankiel Wiernik and the “exhumation and cremation of the victims at Babi Yar”.

    In brief Yankiel Wiernik claims that he witnessed human corpses being piled on large grates and set on fire. He claims they burned to ash. His story goes into great detail about carrying corpses to and piling them on the grates but makes absolutely no mention of carrying, stacking, or even seeing the mountains of wood it would take to cremate thousands of corpses. Instead, he says they burned on their own. This is total nonsense.

    He even compounds this nonsense by saying that women’s corpses burn better than men’s.

    The Treblinka event not only showed that a big part of the holocaust story is impossible but it also primed me to accept that holocaust revisionists were believable whereas it was holocaust promoters who were liars. Accordingly, I had to read only a few of the investigations of the alleged operation of Auschwitz before those mass killing stories fell apart. I still believed there had been mass shootings of Jews in eastern Europe, particularly at Babi Yar, and that mass graves had been found to prove it. But then it turned out that no mass graves have actually ever been found and the excuse for their absence was that the bodies were exhumed and burned in some open air procedure. This was the same nonsense that they tried to feed me about Treblinka. This was the final straw. At this point I became convinced that not a single person was executed by the Germans simply because he or she was Jewish. The holocaust is a complete and total hoax.

    My conversion was that simple. Now any holocaust atrocity story is presumed to be a lie. Before I believe it, it must be supported by unquestionable evidence. The burden of proof is on the storyteller and given their past record the bar is set high. So far not one has passed.

  1597. utu says:
    @Undecided

    The evidence for mass graves isn’t there, or isn’t being shown.

    Good point. AFAIK nobody really looks for the graves and if you tried Jews would object. This was the case during the exhumations in Jedwabne and the exhumation had to be terminated. Poles wanted to find out how many Jews were killed there because the Polish villagers were accused of killing them. The original allegation was of 1,600 dead but the exhumations were terminated at point when only 150 bodies were located and it seemed that not much more would be there.

    revisionist argument simply passes the exterminationist buck from the Nazi gas chambers to the Soviet gulags.

    Good observation. Partly it is because many revisionist want to exonerate Germans. They are not really interested in what has happened as long as Germans did not do it. Keep in mind that they like to use courtroom terminology like “burden of evidence” and so on picturing themselves as defense lawyers of Germany and Germans. They can’t be considered as legitimate researchers who would like to find the truth. A revisionist is a misnomer in their case. They are are really apologists and advocates of Germany and Germans. And some of them deep down wish more Jews were killed.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @phil
  1598. Wally says:
    @utu

    More incoherent doublespeak from utu, a discredited True Believer in the scientifically impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers”. LOL

    see utu slapped silly: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/ comment 429:

    [MORE]

    said:
    “revisionist argument simply passes the exterminationist buck from the Nazi gas chambers to the Soviet gulags.”

    A lie and a false strawmen argument Revisionists do not say that.

    Here’s some of what we really say.

    The Fraudulent ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    Here’s more of what we really say:

    We’re talking about an alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist to this day and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1599. @Undecided

    ‘I agree. Someone, somewhere, would have said so if this was the case.

    Also, as I understand it, the revisionist argument simply passes the exterminationist buck from the Nazi gas chambers to the Soviet gulags. But there’s no evidence for that at all, and no one has ever even claimed it…’

    I’d also point out that if we’re to take it seriously, the ‘Gulag theory’ is hardly an improvement over the Nazi extermination camps. We’ve got the following problems’

    Total silence. This isn’t a plot with twelve participants. Millions would be involved or have witnessed it. Yet no one says anything.

    No total extermination. The Gulags weren’t health clubs, but a substantial number of their inmates survived. I’d guess a majority did. So if the Jews had passed this way, there’d have been hundreds of thousands of survivors, all with their story to tell. But not a peep.

    It’s at odds with the actual Jewish experience in the Gulag. Solzhenitsyn touches on this. He’s aware of the implications, but he insists that Jews looked out for each other in the camps, and generally had a much easier time of it. In fact, as I recall, he asserts that he never saw a Jew assigned to the dread ‘general duty’ — which is where you died.

    So if the Nazi extermination camps provoke skepticism, the Gulag hardly offers an more plausible explaination for the disappearance of the Jews. If the Jews had gone there, a very substantial number of them would have survived.

  1600. Wally says:
    @Hegwood

    Indeed, eloquently stated, Hegwood.

    As Ron Unz himself says:

    Now supposedly, the Germans slaughtered millions of Jews and buried them in mass graves in Poland. But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard? Does *anybody* seriously believe something so totally ridiculous? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to claim that the technologically-advanced Germans invented a teleportation machine and beamed all the bodies to Venus?

    Is is *really* true that the official Holocaust narrative claims that the Nazis recruited large numbers of experienced barbers so that they could give each and every Jew a quick, professional haircut just before killing all of them? Shame, shame on the nasty Nazis for not throwing in nice manicures and pedicures as well…

    see: Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1601. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    said:
    “I am genuinely puzzled. The evidence for mass graves isn’t there, or isn’t being shown. Fine. So, what next? What happened to those missing people?”

    Prove that they are ‘missing’.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Undecided
  1602. @Mike P

    ‘It stands to reason that in the chaos of post-war central Europe a lot of people dashed off in all directions to get on with their lives, without informing any central authorities. However, only the living ones could do so; the dead ones would have faced certain technical difficulties. So, if someone vanished without a trace at that time, it is likely that they were alive, not dead.’

    And afterwards, the overwhelming majority of them kept real quiet about what had happened to them, and in fact covered their tracks.

    I find that distinctly improbable.

    Sometimes, the orthodox explanation really is the truth. It’s dull — but life isn’t always one shocking revelation after another.

    The Nazis tried to kill every Jew they could — and enjoyed considerable success. That’s the explanation with the most evidence to support it. My neighbor claims to be an auto mechanic. He appears to operate a garage down at the corner. He allegedly replaced the wheel bearings in my daughter’s car.

    Maybe he is an auto mechanic, etc. My daughter’s car runs better. It could all be true.

  1603. @Undecided

    There is no evidence that what is claimed to have happened at the AR camps actually happened. The official account is absurd, if not borderline impossible. It does not matter if the Jews who were sent through these camps lived a happy life on the beaches in Haifa, were killed somewhere in Russia, or were kidnapped by space aliens. If you believe the official account, you believe something ridiculous, it is as simple as that. No revisionist is obligated to set you right in that regard. You do not need a compelling account of these Jews’ fate to disbelieve the official story.

    Having said that, admittedly there is no good account of what happened to them. I happen to believe most of them did indeed die somewhere in the SU, as the Soviets weaponized their disregard for their subject populations (scorched earth, etc.) and these Jews would have faced a grim situation in ghettos, etc. Obviously the Soviets could not talk about this after the war as it would call into question their whole heroic myth, struggle, etc. Hence the absurd propaganda tale they concocted (of extermination plans, etc.). You simply cannot believe Soviet accounts of this matter in dismissing the transit camp theory. There was, and still is not, anything like free or open information of this period.

    However lacking revisionist accounts are (and they do the best they can, given the limitations on information), they are for believe than the official account. Hence they should be accepted over the official story.

  1604. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    So then, prove your Jews are missing.

    Simple stuff really. We await.

    you said:
    “Who do you suppose stole those records, and when? Germans, Soviets, Jews?”

    Who benefited?

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1605. Anonymous [AKA "ursula"] says:

    a relevant talk on Lipstadt Irving and Amalek by Michael Hoffman:

    this video might not be around soon. they recently (last few days) placed it in Limited State whereas prior it was just blocked in the usual countries. They might even delete Hoffman’s channel.

    • Replies: @cassandra
  1606. @j2

    ‘So I remain convinced that at least most of the great six million were actually killed by the Nazis”

    Even as only 4.5M are missing by directly calculating the difference between the populations in 1939 and 1946 from AJ Yearbooks, taking the known and documented emigration into account? Please, do the calculation yourself and you see that it is not six million…’

    You appear to be arguing with something I didn’t say.

    I’m perfectly prepared to accept that the Nazis deliberately murdered ‘only’ 4.5 million Jews. The number can’t be determined with any great precision, so it seems possible.

    Otherwise, the theory that a large part of these 4.5 million died at Soviet hands just doesn’t seem very likely. As I noted elsewhere, if anything the Soviets appear to have coddled — relatively speaking — those Jews who wound up in their camps. It’s all a bit like thinking that your cat escaped from the pound and was really put to death by the Feline Rescue Center.

    • Replies: @j2
  1607. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    “…You Nazi clowns…”
    — Here it is: “Israel Is Arming Neo-Nazis in Ukraine:” https://thedailycoin.org/2018/07/16/israel-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/
    http://themillenniumreport.com/2018/07/israel-arming-neo-nazi-groups/
    –And who is a prime minister of Ukraine to oversee the arming of the neo-Nazi with the Israel-made weaponry? – The Jewish primer minister of Ukraine Volodymyr Groysman (Yiddish: וואָלאָדימיר באָריסאָוויטש גרויסמאַן‎) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Groysman

    The Jewish State’ protege:

  1608. crimson2 says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Poor lil enraged Kike, you want to burn us heretics at stake don’t you

    Nope. I want you to continue living your sad, miserable life. You earned it.

  1609. utu says:
    @Hegwood

    He even compounds this nonsense by saying that women’s corpses burn better than men’s.

    There is something to it as women usually have higher fat tissue content.

    An ‘overly obese’ body set a crematorium on fire – again
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article147078929.html
    It seemed like business as usual on Wednesday when a routine cremation in Cincinnati, Ohio started a fire that got out of control.

    But it wasn’t due to faulty wiring – it was the amount of fat on a body employees were cremating.

    “My operator was in the process of cremating remains and (the body) was overly obese and apparently it got a little hotter than the unit is supposed to get,” owner Don Catchen told WCPO. “One of the cremation containers that we had close got caught on fire and that’s what burnt.”

    The blaze took two hours for firefighters to get under control, according to WCPO, but there was little serious damage since crematoriums are built to withstand fire. Catchen called it a “freak accident,” but it’s not totally uncommon.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1610. phil says:
    @utu

    j2 is not arguing that every single person went to a Soviet gulag. He claims that more that 200,000 must have survived and eventually went to Displaced Persons camps (see Wikipedia) and/or Palestine. He is not arguing from documents; unfortunately, they never existed or were deliberately destroyed (e.g., missing train records). j2 is arguing from population estimates and trying to make the math come out right. If all the Reinhardt Jews were killed, as alleged, the numbers for other Jews in the world don’t add up properly.

    Of course, he can clarify his position more himself.

    The excavations thus far undertaken at Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec do support some deaths, at least from natural causes and possibly euthanasia. Many Warsaw Jews were executed at Treblinka. But the excavations don’t at all support a claim that 1 million + were killed. Either there were deportations for which we have no documents, or the Germans loaded dozens and dozens of freight cars with remains (e.g. ashes) and scattered them in the Arctic, or something.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @j2
  1611. utu says:
    @Hegwood

    At this point I became convinced that not a single person was executed by the Germans simply because he or she was Jewish.

    Apparently this is what Ron Unz also believes as he highlighted this comment. I just hope this is a case of temporary hysteria that eventually will go away.

  1612. phil says:

    Note that the original (Soviet) allegation for Majdanek was 1.5 million deaths. Now the consensus is 42-78 thousand, a huge change. I have to believe that Treblinka claims (e.g., 900,000) are also wildly inflated.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    , @FKA Max
  1613. annamaria says:
    @APilgrim

    And that was a voice of an anti-abortionist of Jewish persuasion? — a curious case, indeed.

  1614. utu says:
    @phil

    I find the idea that Germans handed over some Jews to Soviets after June 22, 1941 insane. Literally insane.

    • Replies: @phil
    , @phil
    , @j2
  1615. crimson2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    I assume you’re not trying to win any converts to your point of view.

    There’s no way to convince conspiracy theorists and deniers. It’s pointless to even try.

  1616. Undecided says:
    @Wally

    Sorry, this is a point on which I thought the orthodox and revisionist historians actually agreed and was not in doubt, namely that many many people were documentarily proven to have been transited to the Reinhard camps. I thought the only dispute was what happened next. It now sounds like I’m wrong in that impression, so I’ll appreciate a correction from someone who knows more than me.

    Wally, in another reply you to me below you suggest that (Zionist) Jews destroyed the outbound train records to inculpate the Germans and give the impression that the Germans had massacred Jews at those sites. Assuming you’re right, how on earth do you imagine those Jews got hold of those records, and when? Would these be Jewish soldiers in the Red Army? the US army? Some other outfit?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  1617. crimson2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    There was a broad historical consensus that the Roman empire was great, not just geographical, but as a society.

    I see. And, tell me, was it undone by a bunch of people shouting “revisionists are not required to show any evidence!”

    The point? You missed it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1618. Undecided says:
    @Hegwood

    @Undecided

    What happened to Jewish population of Poland is not the question. The subject is holocaust denial and the question is “was there an attempted genocide of the European Jews by the National Socialist government of Germany during World War II?”. If you really want to know what happened to them go to it. Do the research. Maybe you can write a book.

    My only contribution to your research is to assure you that a million and a half of them were not murdered and piled on grates, set on fire, and turned into ashes.

    Fine, let’s grant that you’re right, but wouldn’t you agree the whole thing becomes much more interesting if we regard this as the greatest whodunnit of all time? If those people really existed–as the train records say they did–then where did they go? If you’ve done this much research, why stop now? That’s what I really don’t get.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  1619. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “… because they’re good at gaining power and influence.”
    — Because they, Israel-firsters, use the gained (often by dirty means) power and influence over the US Congress and the military in the interests of Israel — and against the interests of the US citizenry at large — they constitute a mortal danger for the US. Moreover, the ziocon crazies in charge constitute a mortal danger for western civilization and mankind.

    Jewish power in Ukraine:

    Jewish power over the US Congress and the military: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49245.htm
    “Israel has been busy at creating a pretext for using Syria as a stepping stone to Iran itself. … Kushner-Friedman-Greenblatt is an Israeli dream team in place, backed up by as subservient Congress that reflexively does whatever Israel wishes. One wonders why Congressmen and the media are not screaming about the slaughter in Gaza and pondering how and why the United States has surrendered its sovereignty to a tiny client state in the Middle East, but never fear, Jewish power backed by lots of money is firmly in control of any entity that might challenge bad Israeli behavior. ”

    “How the U.S. military and government have become Zionized:” https://israelpalestinenews.org/fighting-israels-wars-u-s-military-government-become-zionized/
    “..The House Judiciary Committee has been holding meetings to try to decide how exactly one might do that without completely jettisoning the First Amendment, which once upon a time was intended to guarantee free speech. On November 8th, nine experts, seven of whom were Jewish, were summoned to address the issue of “codify[ing] a definition of anti-Semitism that incorporates a controversial component addressing attacks on Israel…[as] a necessary means of stemming anti-Semitism on campuses.”

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/09/04/what-should-putin-do/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=what_should_putin_do&utm_term=2018-09-04: “…there are no more crazy humans than American neoconservatives. It is these crazy humans who are in control of the US government, its foreign policy, its military policy, its media, and its organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy that are its tools for the destabilization of targeted countries. …
    If provocations produce an unintended showdown, a mistake made with nuclear weapons would be the last mistake of the human race.”

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1620. cassandra says:
    @Anonymous

    A quick check shows it’s getting close. One warning says that the video is being blocked by the democratic governments of more than 20 countries. I’m sure that the people’s republic of youtube took a national vote for the decision, didn’t they?

  1621. Erebus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    What would be the reason for cooking up an engagement in Afghanistan…?

    I’m surprised to hear such a juvenile question from someone who presents himself as the worldliest of commentators.
    Brzezinski’s Imperial Imperative, as expressed in The Grand Chessboard, is:
    “For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia… and America’s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained.”

    One look at a map of Eurasia should tell even the most unimaginative what the geopolitical reasons for invading and holding Afghanistan would be. Overlaying that geographical map with a resource map will reveal the geo-economic reasons as well.

    A successful campaign in Afghanistan would have rewarded the US with a stronghold in the heart of Eurasia from which it could project power over the other Central & Paki ‘stans and Iran, and a border with China’s Xinjiang Region. With control of the ‘stans, they control Russia’s southern border.

    Given Brzezinski’s dictum and Afghanistan’s geographical location, it’s hard to see how the US could avoid “cooking up an engagement” there, no?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1622. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    After the war, how many survivors applied for compensation from the German Govt?

    How many were there to start with, and how many were there when it was over?

    Didn’t Rassinier, who was a professor of statistics, look into this?

  1623. BTW, have we reached the record for comments in a thread yet?

  1624. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    “Yankiel Wiernik claims that he witnessed human corpses being piled on large grates and set on fire. He claims they burned to ash. His story goes into great detail about carrying corpses to and piling them on the grates but makes absolutely no mention of carrying, stacking, or even seeing the mountains of wood it would take to cremate thousands of corpses. Instead, he says they burned on their own. This is total nonsense. He even compounds this nonsense by saying that women’s corpses burn better than men’s.”

    This may not be nonsense at all, as it is not always necessary to have a large amount of wood to burn a human corpse completely to ash. Ordinarily, this is impossible – not even a large fire that burned for hours could burn human bone to ash. However, it has been shown in cases of the phenomenon known as spontaneous human combustion (misnomer), that human body fat can perpetuate a flame on a corpse under certain circumstances* for a long enough period of time and at a high enough temperature to reduce human remains almost completely to ash. It would, therefore, be possible to add additional bodies to a stack of human bodies already burning, as long as the body was properly prepared, without firewood; the fat on the corpse should burn well. Furthermore, women have proportionately more body fat than men and lower bone densities, so the claim that women burn better than men is not too unlikely, either.

    This claim of Wiernik’s deserves closer inquiry. However, since even discussing some of the claims surrounding the Holocaust is verboten at best and illegal at worst, these claims can’t always be properly investigated. This is why I oppose Holocaust denial laws. I think experts should come together to solve this issue once and for all, somewhat like the 9/11 commission – although even that had flaws. Otherwise, false claims on both sides will persist. I personally suspect that at full Warren Commission type accounting of the Holocaust would substantiate some claims like the Wiernik corpse burning one while rejecting others (the total body count could fall significantly).

    *I’d need to read more of Wiernik’s account to be able to determine if his claim is credible. However, I do know that there are ways to make it credible.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  1625. anonymous[265] • Disclaimer says:

    Wow, 1650+ comments. Is it unz.com record?

  1626. @utu

    Did this overly obese body catch fire and was used for kindling, as Wiernek claimed in his book?

    How many overly obese women do you imagine were sent to Treblinka?

  1627. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    Hellooo.
    The fact is that you’re dodging.

    I repeat, prove your Jews are “missing”.

    Outbound records were obviously taken upon occupation of the sites.

    Please show us the outbound records.

    Who benefited?

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  1628. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Remember, you’ve been asked repeatedly to show us the alleged mass graves for the laughably alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’, 11,000,000.

    You simply cannot. You’re living a lie.

    You have no proof for your fake & impossible ‘holocaust narrative. None.

    We’ve already shown that the preposterous claims are impossible. Ron Unz is laughing at you. LOL

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1629. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    You keep repeating yourself, so then I will.

    There is no proof they are missing, so your entire argument is garbage in, garbage out.

    Prove that they are missing.

    The outbound train records are gone. We know why. Who benefited?

    No mass graves as alleged for the alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’, then no ‘holocaust’.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Heros
  1630. crimson2 says:
    @Hegwood

    Ooh, a conversion story. How quint.

    The description of these alleged events struck me as so preposterous that little else was necessary to bring me to the realization that the holocaust was a complete hoax.

    Wow, I am ready for some really preposterous stories. They must be EXTREMELY PREPOSTEROUS if they invalidate all the other evidence of the Holocaust as well. Why is Wally bothering to catalog all his “evidence” if he could just point to one story. You could have saved him years of his life! Shame on you! But, okay, I’m ready for this. It should be completely nuts:

    In brief Yankiel Wiernik claims that he witnessed human corpses being piled on large grates and set on fire. He claims they burned to ash. His story goes into great detail about carrying corpses to and piling them on the grates but makes absolutely no mention of carrying, stacking, or even seeing the mountains of wood it would take to cremate thousands of corpses.

    Uh………….so, the preposterous story was that he never…mentioned the wood? Seriously? That’s the big preposterous claim? It’s not even a statement of something that did or didn’t happen. It’s a minor omission at best. But the good ol’ Nazi intellect of Herr Hegwood just glosses right over the simple possibility that he just didn’t mention the wood because it wasn’t that important.

    I’ll keep reading, but this is looking very, very stupid so far.

    Instead, he says they burned on their own. This is total nonsense.

    I wonder if our friend Herr Hegwood has burned some corpses and is thus an expert. Only animals, I hope. Anyway, I don’t see where Wiernik states that corpses burned “on their own.” It should also be noted that an exhumed corpse will burn better than a “fresh” one given the loss of water.

    He even compounds this nonsense by saying that women’s corpses burn better than men’s.

    Wait, is this supposed to be preposterous? This is exactly what one would expect since women have a higher body fat percentage than men. Wiernik seems unlikely to know this, so this observation would SUPPORT his claims.

    And Wiernik states this:

    The corpses were soaked in gasoline. This entailed considerable expense and the results were inadequate; the male corpses simply would not burn.

    But this cannot be! Hegwood just told us that Wiernik said “they burned on their own”! Do you mean?!? Could this be…a FUCKING LIE?

    Nazis–dear stupid Nazis–you are much better off not mentioning any sources at all. At least then your fabrications will not be so easily unearthed. I’m sure all the posters here will reconsider their positions now that..oh, who am I kidding?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Grahamsno(G64)
  1631. bj says:

    A death cult colonized the Jewish mind thousands of years ago. In the present time the barbaric death cult is forcibly attempting the colonization of the entire human mind with a new religion centered on the false claim that six million Jews were exterminated by Third Reich state policy. The death cult presents no physical evidence for their blood libel against the German people. The Holocaust Death Cult subverts the organs of state power to persecute any heretic questioning the mad religion. The Jewish Holocaust Death Cult is suppressing freedom of speech and freedom of inquiry in a insane effort to enslave the human mind and human lives to serve the Jewish Master Race chosen by Yahweh consecrated by the mythology of six million dead Jews. Here is another heroic heretic…..Dr. Nick Kollerstrom revealing his research and experience of the Death Cult’s retaliation for his questioning the HoloHoax Death Cult Religion.

    Breaking The Spell of the Holocaust with Dr Nick Kollerstrom interviewed by Kevin West

  1632. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Here is even more on the highly acclaimed & cited Yankel Wiernik:

    ‘Holocaust Controversie’s‘ Roberto Muehlenkamp cites Yankel Wiernik as proof of extermination of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka !!</b: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11271

    Question his impossible claims and you go to jail in Europe

    No alleged immense mass graves for the alleged 6M Jews & 5M others, no ‘holocaust‘.

    It’s really simple stuff.

  1633. @annamaria

    ‘– Because they, Israel-firsters, use the gained (often by dirty means) power and influence over the US Congress and the military in the interests of Israel — and against the interests of the US citizenry at large — they constitute a mortal danger for the US…’

    That’s true — but my point is that the Zionists aren’t morally worse than others — others will indeed do everything they can think of to exert power and influence as well.

    It’s just that the Zionists are better at it. A tiger is a lot more dangerous than a house cat — but he’s not morally worse. He’s just more effective.

    ‘…Moreover, the ziocon crazies in charge constitute a mortal danger for western civilization and mankind…’

    That’s a point — maybe. We’ve no idea to what extent the Zionists are just pulling all their crap because they can get away with it.

    It’s worth pointing out that when they’ve been called on it before, they’ve backed down. Eisenhower was able to tell them to pull out of Sinai in 1956. Carter twisted their arm until they made peace with Egypt — and promised Palestinian autonomy, although (yawn) they broke their word. Reagan forced them to suspend building settlements in 1980-something. The King of Jordan demanded the antidote when they poisoned a Hamas representative in Jordan — and got it.

    So are they crazy? We used to have the courage to call them on their bluffs. Now we cringe and grovel before the Mighty Mite.

    Is it that they’re crazy or we’re cowards? Maybe if more of our politicians would pull a ‘Profiles in Courage’ number, we could find out. Either way, I think that rather than condemning the Israelis, we might want to look in the mirror. Of course they’re vile — but it’s ourselves that need to change. They’re not going to.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  1634. bj says:

    Who tapped the magic wand, at Nuremberg in 1946,
    Whereby ordinary hygiene technology was forgotten
    and replaced by – Everybody’s Favourite Nightmare,
    the Human Gas Chambers?
    Some tribute to the handiwork of British torturers!
    How did the Veil of Amnesia
    descend over those actual gas chambers –
    Still there today, unvisited and out of bounds,
    glowing a gentle turquoise –
    With all that iron cyanide?
    Stop, why are you running away,
    Does it hurt too much?
    Is there a band around your head a-buzzing
    Giving you that awful headache….
    Control… you will forget these words…
    Zion does not approve…
    Illusion holds you in its thrall.
    Hollywood gives you your Good/Evil polarities
    Required by Empire for its wars.
    The unhealable pain of Europe.
    But No, let’s be honest,
    We really cannot discuss the matter.
    Let the Light shine in.
    Let the Shadows of the Night flee away.
    Let the Spell be broken.

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/31-bts-intro.pdf

  1635. @Hegwood

    You seem to be a black-and-white chap. Perhaps that is why the women’s bodies burning better has to go into your pile of presumed absurdities. But women’s bodies would typically have a higher proportion of fat and also a higher ratio of surface exposed to air (and therefore the oxygen needed for combustion) to body mass than men. So, what’s your problem?

    Presumably one so conscientious has read and assessed the interview with Eichmann in Life. Clearly you must discredit it. How? One can speculate that Eichmann may have decided to mislead, even take the piss as someone suggested, but that can only be fanciful wishful thinking without very careful analysis which I invite you to supply.

    What does seem very surprising I’m sure you would agree is the apparently total lack of exculpatory material in or derived from the hands of the accused criminals’ families. Would you not expect some letters to family saying “you may hear awful allegations against those of us who served in the SS at camps. I would like to think you could defend the honour of your family by making sure some key facts are known. And, anyway, I want you to know that your son/brother/family was not a monster”. Even a pathetic letter saying “I did my duty to the end. I obeyed orders” seems to be lacking.

    • Replies: @Heros
  1636. phil says:
    @Wally

    From The Mattogno-Graf handbook on TREBLINKA:
    Incredibly, not a single German report concerning… a large-scale displacement of population has been preserved. The only numerical information available to us comes from a terse excerpt from the Stroop Report:[247][Nuremberg Document PS-1061]
    “The first large resettlement action took place in the period from 22 July to 3 October 1942. In this action 310,322 Jews were removed.”
    This figure is definitely reliable and on the whole it corresponds to the table cited above, so that this may be taken to reflect actual numbers. It is also quite probable that most of the transports went [from Warsaw] to Treblinka. It also is clear from the few preserved train schedules that the trains were emptied at Treblinka and returned to their departure point without passengers. Of course, none of this proves that the deportees were murdered in Treblinka. The “Disclosures and Conditions for the Jewish Council” of July 22, 1943, prescribed:[824]
    “All Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east.”
    Exempted from the resettlement were, among others:
    “[…] all Jewish persons who, on the first day of the evacuation, are in one of the Jewish hospitals and unable to be discharged. Whether a patient is able to be released is to be determined by a physician to be selected by the Jewish Council.”
    The following regulation pertains to the baggage:
    “Each Jewish resettler is allowed to bring along 15 kg of his property as baggage for the trip. All valuables: gold, jewelry, money, etc., can be taken along. A food supply for 3 days should be brought along.”
    The announcement of the Jewish Council – likewise dated July 22, 1942 – contained the same instructions but began as follows:[825]
    “By order of the German authorities all Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east.”
    The instructions in regard to baggage contained the following warning:[826]
    “Baggage of more than 15 kg will be confiscated.”
    In an announcement of July 24, 1942, the Jewish Council proclaimed:[827]
    “As a result of incorrect information, which is circulating in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw in connection with the evacuation, the Jewish Council in Warsaw was given permission by the authorities to announce that the evacuation of the populace not productively active in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw will, in fact, occur.”
    On July 29, 1942, the Director of the Jewish Ordnungsdienst (law & order services) issued the following summons:[828]
    “I am hereby announcing that all persons, who will be resettled according to the instruction of the authorities, will voluntarily report for the journey on the 29th, 30th, and 31st of July of this year, will receive 3 kg of bread and 1 kg of jam. Place of assembly for distribution of the products – Stawikiplatz at the Wildstraße corner.”
    The German authorities were providing 180,000 kg of bread and 36,000 kg of jam for the volunteers.[829]
    Let us summarize: The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were supposed “to be resettled to the east”; sick persons in the hospitals who were “unable to be discharged” were exempt from the evacuation; every person ready for resettlement received 3 kg of bread and 1 kg of jam – all of this does not conform to a policy of extermination.
    It is worthwhile to quote what Eugene Kulischer wrote in this regard:[830]
    “For the Polish ghettos are not the last stage in the forced eastward migration of the Jewish people. On 20 November 1941, the Governor General, Hans Frank, broadcast the information that the Polish Jews would ultimately be transferred further east. Since the summer of 1942 the ghettos and labour camps in the German-occupied Eastern Territories have become the destination of deportees both from Poland and from western and central Europe; in particular, a new large-scale transfer from the Warsaw ghetto has been reported. Many of the deportees have been sent to the labour camps on the Russian front; others to work in the marshes of Pinsk, or to the ghettos of the Baltic countries, Bielorussia and Ukraine.”
    Kulischer even knew all about the fact that
    “on 22 July 1942, the Jewish Council of Warsaw received an order to prepare 6,000 persons to be sent away daily.”[831]
    In the months that followed, letters and post cards, which were addressed to their relatives by deported Jews, arrived in the Warsaw Ghetto from Białystok, Pinsk, Bobruisk, Brzezc, Smolensk, Brest Litovsk, and Minsk.[832] The resistance organizations in the ghetto, who at that time were already peddling the atrocity stories of the steam chambers, were of course making fast and loose claims that these letters and cards were forgeries fabricated by the Germans for the purpose of deceiving the Jews. On December 4, 1942, this claim was put out in an announcement of the Jewish resistance organization.[833] And in an appeal of January 1943 by the Jewish resistance organization of the Warsaw Ghetto, it said:[834]
    “In the course of the last weeks, people of certain circles were spreading news about letters, which supposedly came from Jews who were evacuated from Warsaw and who are now supposed to be in labor camps at Pinsk or Bobruisk.”
    The authors of the appeal were alleging that such news was being spread by people “who are working for the Gestapo.” The official historiography later gave up this simple-minded assertion and has supported the thesis that the letters and post cards had been “written under duress at Treblinka,”[835] but not a single one of the self-described survivors of Treblinka has made claims of this kind. In fact, this information confirms – however fragmentarily – the picture drawn by E. Kulischer.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
  1637. peterAUS says:
    @Colin Wright

    ….we might want to look in the mirror….

    That will be the day…….

  1638. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    you said:
    “… if they invalidate all the other evidence of the Holocaust as well”

    And what would that be? LOL
    Tell us right here. We await.

    More gems, just for you:

    There were gas chambers on wheels in Treblinka, which dumped their victims directly into burning pits; delayed-action poison gas that allowed the victims to leave the gas chambers and walk to the mass graves by themselves.
    – Reports of the Polish underground movement, Archiv der Polnischen Vereinigten Arbeiterpartei, 202/III, v. 7, pp. 120f., quoted in: P. Longerich, op. cit.(note 271), p. 438.

    The SS made sausage in the crematoria out of human flesh.
    David Pressac, in J.-C. Pressac, op. cit. (note 17), p. 554, fourth column, lines 17-22.

    The SS had bicycle races in the gas chamber of Birkenau.
    Nürnberger Nachrichten, Sept. 11, 1978, report about eyewitness testimony in the jury court trial in Aschaffenburg.

    More to come, just for you.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1639. phil says:
    @utu

    I doubt Jews were “handed over” to the Soviets by the Germans. I think it is conceivable that Jews who had been resettled fell into Soviet hands at one point or another. But there are no existing documents to that effect, so Holocaust believers (understandably) don’t believe that there was large-scale resettlement.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1640. @Erebus

    I’m sure you enjoy going on along those lines with lots of words but it is a bit wearing for others when it has so little to do with the conversation you have intervened in.

    Otterboy is inclined to think the Israeli were part of the conspirators who planned and did it (and neocon sympathisers). I merely pointed out that to start the specific debilitating Balkanisation in the ME of countries which might threaten Israel getting American forces into Afghanistan – very possibly to be mired there as they have been and were in Vietnam – doesn’t appear to be an obvious course proposed by the intelligent. After your misleading quote you invoke something Jimmy Carter’s man Brzezinski said. To what point? Plenty of stuff like that in the journals over many years but we are discussing a 2001 event that was quite simply in line with ObL motivation and record.

    Pathetic really. Your sense of relevance and probative weight seems to be away with annamaria’s wanderings.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1641. phil says:
    @utu

    So which is more likely, that large-scale resettlement of Jews occurred, or hundreds of railway cars were directly loaded with ashes from outdoor cremations from the Reinhardt camps, with the ashes being scattered in the Arctic.

    Or do you have another hypothesis–that the remains are still in the ground there and the Rabbis won’t let us see them?

  1642. j2 says:
    @Undecided

    “However, I really do applaud you for at least offering a speculation. I mean that sincerely.”

    If you mean sincerely, so can you consider the following issues.

    1) Firstly, the Holocaust claim is that practically all sent to Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec were murdered in these camps and are buried to the mass graves there. The number sent to these camps is about 1.45M, this number is known and rather precise.
    – Burning so many bodies with wood would still show as cutting of forest, no signs of it.
    – Sizes of the mass graves are too small for this number.
    – Eyewitnesses testimonies are questionable, suggesting e.g. diesel engines producing carbon monoxide. These testimonies were made after the war by some Germans.
    – Excavations on the sites have not produced evidence of this scale of mass murders
    For these reasons I consider it unlikely to impossible that 1.45M were murdered there.

    2) Secondly, in Göbbel’s diary there is a statement: not much will remain of these people, 60% must be liquidated and only 40% used for work. This statement does not support the Holocaust claim, which is that practically 100% were murdered. While the world liquidated can mean many things, 40% used for work means that 40% were not murdered there. Let me now suggest that liquidated does not mean murdered, but turned into cash, like assets are liquidated. What would be the 60%?
    People not fit to work and therefore not fit to fight.
    10% morons, mentally ill, otherwise deviant would be murdered. That is 150,000 and that fits to the sizes of the mass graves.
    10% would be over 50, they would not be alive in 1989 when they could come to the West. They would have died in some camp in the Soviet Union.
    40% would be under 13 years, as the population growth was 1.4% yearly. These children would not know where they were and could not meet in a club of Bialystok Jews who survived Reinhardt.
    What about the 40% used for work? None of them could have survived the war. If they built fortifications and fixed bombed roads, many died in the war. When Germans withdrew, they had to kill these prisoners, as they were capable of joining the enemy. If Germans did not kill them, Soviets would have killed them not understanding why Germans left them alive: spies among them.

    3) Thirdly, there is the 900,000 who emigrated from Europe and this figure is certain. Of this 900,000 the first group is 75,000 legal immigrants to Palestine before 1946. They mostly moved before the war and this group cannot have survivors of Reinhardt.
    The second group is 138,000 who moved legally to Palestine 1946-48 from DP camps. This group are concentration camp survivors, not survivors of Reinhardt.
    The third group are 91,000 who escaped to the UK and other European countries. This also does not include Reinhardt survivors, but there three groups already consume all there could have been in the West and Western Poland. The two last groups are the interesting ones:
    – 393,000 Jews came to the DP camps from the East after 1946.
    – 110,000 Jews were illegally transported to Palestine mostly after the war and before 1948.
    Of the 383,000 it is known that very few were Western or Soviet Jews. The largest two groups were from Romania 123,000 and Poland 104,000. There remains 260,000. This looks to me as a potential group. They could have been children who survived Reinhardt and never knew where they were. The illegal immigration of 110,000 included children. I wonder if there were children who were sent to Chelmno from Lodz ghetto.

    Everything that happened to the Jews in the Soviet Union of 1940 is unclear, so everything is only speculation. Revisionists avoid speculation and only point out to 1). It is not likely that the official story is correct. I prefer to point to 1) and 3). Not only the official story is not likely but mathematics does not match and mathematics must match. 2) is uncertain, but it is a possibility. I do not find it especially unlikely. Concerning a deal between Zionist and Nazis I refer to Eichmann. There were more deals than the Haavara agreement. Concerning the possibility that Nazis transported Jews to the Soviet Union, I point to the claims Nazis made after the war: that they took the Jews to the Soviet Union. As the judges were Soviets, why did Nazis claim such a thing if it was not true? They could have claimed that the Jews died from diseases. If they did not take Jews to the Soviet Union, it was obvious that the Soviet judges would know it. Considering everything I think Nazis took Jews to the Soviet Union. To the West came 260,000 who survived Reinhardt but were too young to know it. Notice, 40% of 1.45M is 590,000, so this 260,000 could have been younger than 12 years. The over 50 years would have been 150,000. Not a large group to have been somewhere in the Soviet Union. Soviets gave the number of survivors as 2M. It may just as well mean 2.5M as it is a round number.

    As said, this is only speculation. You asked a question, so I offered speculation as we do not know the answer. I strongly suggest you consider the problems mentioned in 1). That is the revisionist position. It is for Jews to find out what happened to the Jews if they were not murdered. Notice also that the Auschwitz official story can definitely be shown incorrect simply by statistics.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  1643. j2 says:
    @j2

    To clarify, 383,000-123,00=260,000. The Romanian Jews must be removed as they were not taken by Nazis. The 104,00 Polish Jews are included: they were taken by Nazis.

    • Replies: @Undecided
  1644. j2 says:
    @phil

    “It also is clear from the few preserved train schedules that the trains were emptied at Treblinka and returned to their departure point without passengers. Of course, none of this proves that the deportees were murdered in Treblinka.”

    Rails had a different span length in the Western Poland and in the Soviet Union, so they could not continue further. Assuming that the transport continued, it could not continue by train but first by cars to some station.

  1645. Anonymous[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @Undecided

    If those people really existed–as the train records say they did–then where did they go?

    What do the train records say exactly? Do they list names? Numbers? If numbers, is it numbers who boarded, numbers who umboarded, both?

  1646. j2 says:
    @Anon

    “However, it has been shown in cases of the phenomenon known as spontaneous human combustion (misnomer), that human body fat can perpetuate a flame on a corpse under certain circumstances* for a long enough period of time and at a high enough temperature to reduce human remains almost completely to ash. ”

    There are a handful such claimed cases, but these have been extremely thick people. A normal human body does not burn without external energy.

  1647. j2 says:
    @Undecided

    “Assuming you’re right, how on earth do you imagine those Jews got hold of those records, and when?”

    Soviets hid Auschwitz records. They were found only after the SU collapsed. It is more correct to say Communists than Jews in this case.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1648. j2 says:
    @utu

    “I find the idea that Germans handed over some Jews to Soviets after June 22, 1941 insane. Literally insane.”

    Do you mean that Germans had not left any Jews to Auschwitz alive to wait for the Soviets? If so, how did the Soviets make the film that earlier was always shown in Auschwitz where there were Jewish inmates of Auschwitz left there alive by Germans in 1944, that is after June 22, 1941? I think you misunderstand what I mean by handing over. These Jews were definitely handed over to Soviets by Germans and it happened.

  1649. utu says:

    How do the denialists explain the 10,000 trucks for one million Jews offer?

    Eichmann sent for Brand again a few days later. Eichmann was accompanied this time by Gerhard Clages, also known as Otto Klages, chief of Himmler’s Sicherheitsdienst (security service) in Budapest. Clages’ presence meant that three of Himmler’s senior officers – Eichmann, Becher and Clages – had involved themselves with the Brand proposal.[32] Clages handed Brand $50,000 and 270,000 Swiss francs that the Germans had intercepted, sent to the Aid and Rescue Committee by rescue workers in Switzerland via the Swedish Embassy in Budapest.[33]

    Eichmann told Brand that he wanted 10,000 new trucks for the Waffen-SS to use on the Eastern front, one truck for every 100 Jews, as well as 200 tons of tea, 200 tons of cocoa, 800 tons of coffee and 2,000,000 cases of soap. If Brand returned from Istanbul with confirmation that the Allies had accepted the proposal, Eichmann said he would release 10 percent of the one million. The deal would proceed with 100,000 Jews released for every 1,000 trucks. (wiki)

    In April and May 1944 before deportation of Hungarian Jews Eichmann must have had in his custody 1,000,000 Jews.

    I have already made investigations about you and your people and I have verified your ability to make a deal. Now then, I am prepared to sell you one million Jews … Goods for blood – blood for goods. You can take them from any country you like, wherever you can find them – Hungary, Poland, the Ostmark, from Theresienstadt, from Auschwitz, wherever you like. (wiki)

    Eichmann apparently could not offer more than 1,000,000. This 1,000,000 included over 600,000 Hungarian Jews who were still in greater Hungary. So presumably he thought he still had 400,000 Jews somewhere in Poland. However most ghettos in Poland were already liquidated except for Lodz Ghetto that still had 70,000 Jews. Let’s say that 400,000 Jews were still alive in Poland in ghettos and camps. So all Eichmann could come up with was one million.

    Operation Bagration did not begin until June/July when Army Group Centre was destroyed and Red Army got to Vistula line capturing most of camps east of Vistula river which is 2-3 months after the talks with Joel Brandt.

    My point is that in April-May 1944 Eichmann could not make a better offer than 1,000,000 Jews. Four-five millions of Jews that were under German jurisdiction in 1943 were not available to be put on the table in this deal in 1944. And what was the other side of the offer? What was supposed to happen to the Jews if they did not get the trucks and tea?

    Joel Brand was arrested in Aleppo by the British. Is there a transcript from his interrogation in Aleppo?

    I am sure Wally will tell us that the Eichmann offer is just a hoax.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  1650. j2 says:
    @phil

    “If all the Reinhardt Jews were killed, as alleged, the numbers for other Jews in the world don’t add up properly. Of course, he can clarify his position more himself.”

    I just would like the mathematics to match. The argument is here:

    There were 250,000 Jews in the DP-camps in 1946 and 138,000 immigrated legally to Palestine. There should have stayed 112,000 Jews, but there came more Jews to DP-camps from Eastern Europe after 1946. How many more? Newly independent Israel opened doors in 1948 and took from Europe 0.338 million Jews during 1948-53. They came from DP-camps. Of these 0.338 million, 0.025 million were from Western Europe and the rest from Eastern Europe. Additionally the USA took first 80,000 Jews from DP camps and later 57,000. Thus, 137,000 Jews from DP-camps immigrated to the USA after 1948. Canada and South-Africa took additionally 20,000 Jews from DP-camps after 1948. So, there was supposed to be 112,000 Jews in DP-camps but after 1948 from DP-camps immigrated 338,000+137,000+20,000=495,000 Jews. That means that 383,000 Jews came to DP-camps from Eastern Europe after 1946.

    So, this figure is sound: 383,000 Jews came from to DP camps after 1946. Also we know from Israel immigration data that very few came from Western countries and from the Soviet Union. This I understand meaning that from Western countries very few Jews went to DO camps. It does not mean that these Jews could not have been born in Western countries, but that they came to the DP camps from the east. That there were very few Jews from the Soviet Union I understand as, very few Jews, whose birth place after the war was the Soviet Union came to the DP camps.

    Understanding like this, and I think it is the correct understanding, this 383,000 can only have been Western European or West Poland’s Jews who were taken to the east and Romanian Jews.

    The largest group was indeed Romanian (123,000) in the immigration 1948-53. The second largest was Poland (104,000). The origin of 30,000 is not known. Very few came from the Soviet Union. This means that 126,000=383,000-123,000-104,000-30,000 must have been Jews from Western countries (that includes Hungary, Greece etc., all but Poland, the SU of 1940 and Romania). Now, how can 126,000 Western Jews come to the DP camps after 1946 from the East? Only if they were survivors of Western Jews who were transported to the SU of 1946. What were the 104,000 Polish Jews? They were Jews whose birth place was in Poland after 1946. This is clear since the survivors of Polish Jews are given as 300,000, which accounts to survivors of Western Poland and excludes survivors of Eastern Poland who are included in Soviet Jews. They were born in Ukraine. Thus, these 104,000 Polish Jews were also transported to the SU of 1940. In total we have 260,ooo survivors of Jews from West Poland and Western Europe, who came to DP camps after 1946. They can only be survivors of Operation Reinhardt camps.

    I have been through this argument many times in my mind, I think it is sound and strong. Mathematics does not match without survivors from Operation Reinhardt camps.

    • Replies: @j2
  1651. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    ” Power doesn’t have to be evil and even when it is, there are limits.”

    You don’t realize that what you wrote doesn’t make sense…evil know no limits.

    Life is a paradox. In spite of power being evil we need it. I’m not an anarchist because men are not ready for anarchy.

    To have systems w/o power people would have to have moral standard of a Tolstoy.

    So we need power but less power the better. Jewish Power and secret societies gave us empires and centralization.

    If we manage to have small units like Switzerland, Iceland, Luxembourg, Tibet, Catalonia, Scotland, Texas, etc…life will be better and men freer.

    “the Tribe is trying to genocide my race”….This doesn’t make sense. If they genocide your race, who would be their slaves ? A master race needs slaves, no ?

    Let’s admit they are trying to genocide your race…You have to admit also that members of your race are willingly helping them committing that genocide.

    So, your first duty, is to wake up members of your race. They’re very busy shopping and watching stupid movies. Victims, they’re not!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1652. j2 says:
    @utu

    “You have zero evidence for your hypothesis yet you keep repeating it over and over again.”

    The evidence is the problem in statistics of survivors coming to DP camps in the West after 1946. This statistics implies that 260,000 Western and West Polish Jews did come from the Soviet Union of 1946 to DP camps. If you want to claim that this evidence is wrong, show the statistics wrong. Those numbers are known. I simply add and subtract them. Mathematics is the hardest evidence there is.

  1653. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    Thanks Otterboy.

    Enjoy reading your comments.

    take care.

  1654. j2 says:
    @Undecided

    “I reiterate that revisionists will have to help figure out what did happen to them if they want to change people’s minds. Calling the status of those people a ‘canard’ isn’t going to persuade anyone. You’ve arguably demoted the case of the missing Jews from a ‘missing: presumed dead’ to ‘missing.’ Good. So, where did they go?”

    I suspect you are not undecided but a hard-line Holocaust believer. I have offered you an explanation, you still insist that Wally would go to speculation. You ridiculed that Jews would have to be taken over mountains. Do you not know that there was an escape route from Ukraine through Vienna? It goes along a river. The route ends to Romania, where you take a ship and try to get to some place close to Palestine. You might be interested in reading the book Jiri Langer: Nine gates. He was an Ukrainian Jews who escaped along this route a bit before Germans came. Eichmann knew the route as in the interview he says that Jews escaped to Romania.

    It would be very bad manners from a hard-line Holocaust believer to pretend to be undecided and to ask for a clarification to some issue that is puzzling him. It would be cheating.

    • Replies: @Undecided
  1655. Heros says:
    @Wally

    Clearly “Undecided” is another lying jew. He decided to spit on goyim long, long ago.

  1656. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Otherwise, the theory that a large part of these 4.5 million died at Soviet hands just doesn’t seem very likely. As I noted elsewhere, if anything the Soviets appear to have coddled — relatively speaking — those Jews who wound up in their camps. It’s all a bit like thinking that your cat escaped from the pound and was really put to death by the Feline Rescue Center.”

    You do not understand. The number of Jews who died in Soviet hands is 1M both in the official and the alternative version. It is a large part of the total death toll in both versions. It would be nice if you could first do some calculation with these numbers before writing comments. You people are far too emotional. Statistics is about numbers. With numbers you add and subtract, you do not think what death toll sounds reasonable to assign to each party and which should have more blame.

    In the official version a large part of these 4.5 million died at Soviet hands, indeed the same amount. We can calculate that outside the SU of 1940 died 1M Jews, of them 0.2 in Romania and the rest in German hands. This leaves 3.5M to die in the SU. In the official version all sent to Operation Reinhard camps were killed. We can add 1.45M to the German death toll. That leaves 2M. In the official story Germans shot 1-1.5M in the East. That leaves 0.5-1M to die in Soviet hands. They were never in German hands. So, this is the official story: 0.5-1M died in Soviet hands.

    The alternative I suggest is that of 1.45M sent to Reinhardt 0.74M of the 1.45 died in German hands, 0.26M went to DP camps and 0.44M died in Soviet hands. But I also believe that the Soviet population figure was 1M smaller in the beginning and the actual death toll is 3.5M. Of it 1M is in the West, leaves 2.5M. Of this 0.74M dies in German hands. This leaves 1.76M. Of that figure 0.76M probably died in German hands. In this version 1M died in Soviet hands.

  1657. @cassandra

    ” series of efforts to break the German people by force and their spirit (and self-preservation) by guilt ”

    Correct, all this began during WWI:
    Philip M. Taylor, ‘Munitions of the Mind, A History of Propaganda from the Ancient World to the Present Day’, 1995, Manchester
    Philip M. Taylor, ‘The Projection of Britain, British Overseas Publicity and Propaganda 1919-1939’, Cambridge 1981
    Sir Campbell Stuart K.B.E., ‘Secrets of Crewe House, The Story of a Famous Campaign’, 1920, London
    Henry Morgenthau, ‘Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, New York, 1918
    Heath W. Lowry, ‘The story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, Istanbul 1990
    Crewe House was the British war propaganda office.

    And it continues to the present day.
    In 1953 the USA realised it needed Germany against the USSR, then led by Stalin who wanted war;
    The Germany created by the USA had the obligation to educate the truth of the victors, and to support Israel.
    The present Germany, in my opinion, is destroyed by these ideas, Merkel inviting massive numbers of immigrants to change, better, destroy an evil people, at the same time making it impossible in Germany to say or write anything positive about Hitler.
    Schultze Rhonoff is not the only one fired immediately for using the free speech in Germany, that does not exist.
    It goes even further, after the migrants have been nationalised, under EU rules, no country can reject them.
    Keynes knew these things ‘ideas have the most power in the world’, I always add ‘even when these ideas are complete nonsense’.

    How in GB at was thought about the Germans one can read in
    Colonel Roderick Macleod, D.S.O., M.C., and Dennis Kelly, ‘TIME UNGUARDED The Ironside Diaries 1937- 1940’, New York, 1963
    The British ambassador in Berlin until Sept 1940 had understanding for Germany, during a later dinner in GB he was spoken to as ‘our Nazi ambassador in Germany’.
    But something similar happened in Japan, with the USA ambassador.

    Forgot who wrote ‘the problem with propaganda is that the poison lingers for decades’.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1658. Heros says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ” “you may hear awful allegations against those of us who served in the SS at camps. I would like to think you could defend the honour of your family by making sure some key facts are known. And, anyway, I want you to know that your son/brother/family was not a monster””

    Earth to Shlomo: the holohoax narrative started long after innocent Germans had had their testicles crushed (part of the Morgentau plan) and been forced to sign fake confessions. It was all just another typical jew fraud. How can you expect honest and honorable Germans to anticipate all the lies and false accusations that the, to quote Patton, filthy jews could regurgitate from their sacred satanic Talmud?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1659. j2 says:
    @j2

    “The largest group was indeed Romanian (123,000) in the immigration 1948-53. The second largest was Poland (104,000). The origin of 30,000 is not known. Very few came from the Soviet Union. This means that 126,000=383,000-123,000-104,000-30,000 must have been Jews from Western countries (that includes Hungary, Greece etc., all but Poland, the SU of 1940 and Romania). ”

    I just add this for precision. Israel took 338,000, the USA 137,000 and Canada+SA 20,000. The number 123,000 is the number of Romanian Jews who immigrated to Israel 1948-53. One might think that some Romanian Jews immigrated to the USA and Canada+South Africa and therefore there were less than 126,000 Western European Jews. But this is shown incorrect by Romanian population estimates. There were 600,000 in 1939, there remained 300,000 in 1946, 225,000 were killed by Yad Vashem data, so there could not be more than 123,000 who came to DP camps from Romania. Thus, the calculation is correct. Or as correct as it can be from this data. The data is immigration data to Israel and the USA, the mention of 20,000 to Canada and South Africa is from Wikipedia from a Jewish immigration article. I find no other explanation than 260,000 came from the SU of 1940, and they were not Soviet Jews of 1946, nor Eastern Polish Jews.

  1660. Wally says:
    @phil

    LENGTHY, but worth it, select ‘MORE’ if necessary.

    Indeed, even many “survivors” in Spielberg’s otherwise discredited film ‘Last Days’ let it slip that they had been transported east.

    Now, try asking True Believers how their Jews were allegedly killed in the Reinhardt camps.
    The story says ‘diesel gas chambers’ from Soviet submarines & tanks. LOL

    It is impossible to kill people as alleged with diesel exhaust. So now they try to claim, ‘Oh no, we meant gasoline engines’. Except:

    … there is little to add to this description [the Gerstein Statement], which holds good for Treblinka and Sobibor as well as for the Belzec camp. The latter installations were constructed in almost the same way and also used the exhaust carbon monoxide gases from Diesel motors as death agents.”
    – Léon Poliakov, a French-Jewish historian who has written at length in support of the ‘holocaust’ story.

    and: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.revisionism/2mMYNYXF9ac :

    during the first stage, three gas chambers were in operation, each of them,much like those in Sobibor, 4 x 4 m. in size and 2.6 m. high. A diesel engine producing poisonous carbon monoxide, as well as a generator which supplied the whole camp with electricity, were housed in a built-on room
    – Yad Vashem Studies XVI: Operation Reinhard (5/11)

    – “Eyewitness” Yankel Wiernik claimed a Russian diesel tank engine was used for gassings.

    – American citizen John Demjanjuk. Demjanjuk was accused of having murdered at least 875,000 Jews with diesel exhaust at the alleged extermination camp at Treblinka in 1942/43.

    [MORE]

    This is claimed to be the mass grave for 900,000 Jews at Treblinka.

    But then, so is this:
    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.

    No alleged immense mass graves for the alleged 6M Jews & 5M others, no ‘holocaust‘.

    So then, it’s on them. True Believers who claim that Jews are “missing” need to prove that they are in fact “missing”.
    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1661. j2 says:

    I am sorry to have made so many comments. I will stop commenting now, unless somebody explicitly asks for a clarification to the DP camp calculation. You have a simple and strong proof that over 200,000 Jews survived the Operation Reinhardt camps right there. Names are not provided by the argument.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1662. JackOH says:
    @phil

    phil, years ago I’d calculated a rough figure of 2 million Jews who’d died during WWII using ordinary library reference books. I supposed many died as Jewish combat soldiers, as Jewish civilians under artillery and aerial bombardment, and so on. I recall thinking that left a fairly small number that died in camps, a small fraction of what we’d been led to believe by the Holocaust narrative in popular imagination. I felt sort of comfortable with my guesstimate, although I’m neither a scholar nor an interested party.

    That 95%+ reduction in the figures for Majdanek is astounding.

  1663. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    One has to be polite and reply. But there is no point in replying because you’re not really interested in truth and justice. Your post is a good example of what I said. The question is not about tone but about hate.

    You hate too much. That hate can’t be good for you or the cause you’re defending.

    Of course there’s another explanation also. Your agenda here is to hijack Unz and impede rational discussion. In fact you’re a Zionist or a white supremacist (no difference).

    I’m sure lots of white supremacists groups are infiltrated by Zionists. White supremacists are very good for the business of antisemitism.

    But let’s just pretend that you’re interested in T & J.

    “ Otterboy stated that he does not believe jews have a plan to eliminate white Christians from the planet and from history”

    Of course Otterboy is right. If the master race “have a plan to eliminate white Christians from the planet and from history ”, who is going to be their slaves ?

    I can see the point of eliminating the Palestinians -btw, here zionists are following the plan the Americans(Christians) applied when they eliminated the Native Americans -, but you have to admit that the master race isn’t stupid and that they know that they need slaves.
    It seems that in their sacred book, that is the role of goyim.

    “ we goyim have learned a lot about the Talmud, and its place in history as well.”

    This is false. Most goyim(in the western world anyway) are very “happy” with their lives as slaves. They don’t even know they are slaves. They’re busy buying stuff and watching stupid movies. Jewish Power also knows that if you give people “bread and circuses” you can do everything you want.
    Maybe American middle class is losing their buying power but you can not deny that they still have enough for “bread and circuses”.

    “One can also trace similar goals to the Freemasons, who have been working to destroy Christian European culture hand in hand with the jews”

    Agree. But as you know lots of Freemasons aren’t jews.

    “So when you and Otterboy imply that the issue is power corrupting all members of every race or social group equally to the jews, who clearly are pulling all the strings, then I would have to say that this assertion is laughable.”

    Maybe is laughable but it’s also the truth. And I specifically said “Jewish Power” which is, as you know, anti-Semite. Of course one cannot destroy “Jewish Power” if one ignores the nature of power.

    Why are those white/black/brown/yellow, young and less young men/women ready to sell their mother, country, soul to achieve power and serve the jewish power ?

    Are jews forcing them to get into power ? Or they -in their ignorance- believe that life is about power and to become “important” one has to have power ?

    “You and Otterboy failed to mention that this “corrupt power” never seems to target jews in precisely the same way ISIS never attacks Israel.”

    No doubt that ISIS and other terrorist groups is a creation of Mossad and other western secret services. But it is also well known that jews have no problem killing other jews if that will help their cause. There are several examples. After 1948, lots of jews in several ME counties were killed by Mossad to force the rest of the tribe to emigrate to Israel.

    “Jews, like you and Otterboy…”

    I’m not jewish and Otterboy already told you that he abandoned the cult long time ago.
    The problem is for you a “jew” is someone who disagrees with your worldview based on hate and revenge and all power for your tribe. And for you it’s impossible to abandon the cult: Otterboy, Gilad, Ron didn’t abandon the cult. The only way they wouldn’t be jew anymore is for them to kill as many jews as possible and then they should commit suicide, after apologising for having been born into the cult. It’s their fault they were not born white.

    You wrote:
    “So to me it is quite simple, all GERMANS are GERMANS until they actively accept and at apologize for their forefathers grievous crimes and transgressions against Europeans over the centuries.”

    No, you didn’t write that.

    It is absurd , isn’t it ? In fact, thanks to jewish power, it’s what’s happening.

    But it will be absurd if we replace germans for jews, which is what you wrote.
    If you were interested in T&J you would know that.

    Allow me to conclude with a citation that will be from now on my motto.

    You won’t understand it. You won’t understand not because you have reading comprehension difficulties but because you don’t want to understand.

    Although you don’t know, you’re a jew. I ‘m sure if you apply for the passport, you can get it. You know how to hate. People that follow the religion of holocaustianity know how to hate. I’d argue that this is the condition sine qua non to be member of the cult.

    Here is the motto : “remember your humanity and forget all the rest.”
    PS: The author isn’t jewish.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
    , @Heros
  1664. “America is a Communist Country” — Mencius Moldbug

    American Pravda is simply the best series of essays I have ever read. They are the perfect introduction to historical revisionism. I have learned as many secrets about the 20th century as LvMI taught me about the 19th.

    I’d love to make a podcast just reading these essays. You wouldn’t believe how many people will never read an essay but would certainly listen to one. It would be free and very popular, I think. You know you have succeeded as an intellectual when you hear strangers using your own words.

    Please think about my offer, Mr Unz.

    Musonius Rufus

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1665. @jilles dykstra

    Forgot to make explicit that there were two forces for causing WWI, on the one hand the British, who feared Germany economically, and because of Germany’s geopolitics, direction Basra, through the Mosul oil fields, on the other the hatred of jews as Morgenthau and Bernard Baruch, because of German anti semitism after 1870.
    When, mainly through the stupid Versailles Diktat, that caused the German hyperinflation of around 1924, Hitler began his political career, Baruch already in 1928 or 1929 said to his friend Churchill ‘that he foresaw great things for Churchill’, if he remained in politics.
    These great things were realised, 70 million deaths, etc.

    Bernard M. Baruch, ‘Die Jahre des Dienens’, München 1962 (The public years, New York, 1960)
    Bernard M. Baruch, Gute 88 Jahre, Autobiographie, München 1963 (New York)
    Patrick J. Buchanan, ‘Churchill, Hitler and “The unnecessary war”, How Britain lost its empire and the west lost the world’, New York, 2008

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1666. @Heros

    I suspect you have never known any Jews or Germans. I have known lots and the many decent Germans, if they had been innocent camp guards would at least have been writing something like “War is hell. I suppose I am lucky but I’m not happy seeing the awful condition of a lot of the reporters being sent to our camp in cattle trucks. And just as you think they might be recovering their health and strength a lot of them come down with typhus. I’m not saying I wish I had become a medic but you can’t help feeling pretty useless.” Where are the great collections of letters and diaries from SS guards?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1667. @cassandra

    “to prevent Germany entering the company of major nations” !!! You have a lot of reading to do. The idea that Germany wasn’t already one of the major nations by any standard – and feared because it was – is ludicrous.

  1668. Ron Unz says:
    @Musonius Rufus

    I’d love to make a podcast just reading these essays. You wouldn’t believe how many people will never read an essay but would certainly listen to one. It would be free and very popular, I think. You know you have succeeded as an intellectual when you hear strangers using your own words.

    Please think about my offer, Mr Unz.

    Thanks for the very kind words, and that sounds like an interesting possibility, especially since I’m not into that sort of thing myself.

    Why don’t you try doing a podcast of one of my shorter pieces as a sample, and if it seems to work out, I’ll be glad to authorize you to do all of them.

    • Replies: @Musonius Rufus
    , @Anonymous
  1669. @jilles dykstra

    Stick to being the nerd who can remember book’s names and don’t bother with giving us the benefit of your defective memory on well known facts like the date of the great German inflation – well over by 1924 – or the beginning of Hitler’s political career which was almost 5 years earlier than you say or imply. It doesn’t make your opinions look smart when you can’t be bothered to get elementary, easily checkable, historical facts right.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1670. j2 says:
    @utu

    “My point is that in April-May 1944 Eichmann could not make a better offer than 1,000,000 Jews. Four-five millions of Jews that were under German jurisdiction in 1943 were not available to be put on the table in this deal in 1944.”

    I will still answer this because utu has proposed a quantitative argument and called the accepted Jewish data that I have used in my calculations garbage.

    The Soviets had at that time already taken Eastern Poland.

    Let us compare what is the difference between two scenarios concerning Jews in German hands in the Soviet Union of 1946.
    1) The official story: Germans shot almost all Jews they met in the East, that is 1-1.5M. Germans killed all Jews who were transported to Operation Reinhard camps, 1.45M.
    2) The alternate scenario: Germans shot most Jews whom they met in the East and left the rest to ghettos there. Germans kept 0.74M Jews as labor force from the 1.45M Jews sent to Operation Reinhard camps and resettled/freed 0.7M of these Jews. The resettled/freed Jews were not fit to work or war and they were left the ghettos to Ukraine. The 0.74M had been used as work force, but most had died and the rest Germans killed because they could have joined the Red Army, as many still were capable of fighting.
    In both scenarios Germans did not have any of these Jews in their hands in 1944 when Eichmann made his offed. The difference is only that in the second scenario Soviets had some of these Jews.

    There is no difference concerning Western Europe and West Poland. There remained 0.41M Jews in concentration camps to the end of the war. Yad Vashem data states that 290,000 Hungarian Jews died. As 430,000 were transported, it would indicate that 140,000 survived. They must have been in this 410,000 since the official story knows no other survivors from the West. Thus, there were 270,000 other Jews who survived the war in concentration camps. Eichmann could offer them. In Hungary there were 440,000 Jews. Eichmann could offer also them. From 1M is still missing 290,000. This must be the number of Jews who died before the war ended, mainly because the camp system fell down. This figure is rather reasonable.

    utu suggests that Eichmann could offer 600,000 Hungarian Jews and 400,000 other Jews. If there had been 600,000 Hungarian Jews, Eichmann could offer them and 270,000 non-Hungarian Jews who survived the war, and Jews who died from his offer to the end of the war. If this offer should be 1M, then only 130,000 died from the offer to the end of the war. This seems too small. It seems that utu overestimates the Hungarian Jews to 600,000 while they were only 440,000 (as is the commonly accepted figure).

    “What was supposed to happen to the Jews if they did not get the trucks and tea?”

    Obviously Eichmann did not make the deal as Hungarian Jews were taken to Auschwitz. So, what happened? The 410,000 Jews still survived the war. Collapse of the camp system caused by Allied bombings caused 290,000 deaths. 140,000 Hungarian Jews survived the war. Eichmann claims that 200,000 were left to Auschwitz. Thus, 430,000-200,000-140,000=90,000 died in German hands, largely because the camp system collapsed.

    utu, what was the point of your question? Did you think you found some problem here? There is no problem here.

    • Replies: @utu
  1671. @j2

    Your comments are great, please keep posting.

  1672. orionyx says:
    @Wally

    Which takes more heat to evaporate – 40l of water, or 80l of water?
    One 60kg cadaver contains about 40l of water. The rest is mostly non-flammable, which is why spontaneous combustion of corpses doesn’t happen.

  1673. @crimson2

    Uh………….so, the preposterous story was that he never…mentioned the wood? Seriously? That’s the big preposterous claim?

    It’s not wood but WOOD, LOTS OF IT 150 TO 300 THOUSAND TONS OF IT you technically illiterate half wit. To burn 900k bodies you would need to have A GIGANTIC LUMBERJACKING OPERATION in Treblinka which no witness ever mentions and for which THEIR IS NO PROOF, THEIR IS NO MASSIVE DEFORESTATION AROUND THE AREA BECAUSE IF THERE WAS THE SOVIETS WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT.

    You believers are such credulous stupid children.

    • Replies: @crimson2
    , @Yellowford
  1674. @utu

    Even by your standards this is a very dumb argument.

    • Replies: @utu
  1675. @j2

    in Göbbel’s diary

    LOL. Like it wouldn’t have been tampered with.

    • Replies: @j2
  1676. Undecided says:
    @j2

    Thanks! This is precisely the kind of answer I was hoping to receive.

    I agree that if the physical evidence (e.g. ground disturbance, mass graves, deforestation) at those campus isn’t there, then it didn’t happen as we’re told. That is how archaeologists approach history (historical narratives), end of story.

    What is frustrating is to see revisionists unwilling to go beyond that point dispassionately and to solve the huge problem as an actual problem of historical research. Your numbers here–right or wrong, I have no idea, but you certainly seem to know what you’re talking about–represent that very step they don’t seem eager to take. That leaves them stuck trying perpetually trying to prove a negative, but any philosopher can tell you that’s impossible. Certainly from a rhetorical/persuasive point of view, it’s not going to win lots of converts.

    Concerning the possibility that Nazis transported Jews to the Soviet Union, I point to the claims Nazis made after the war: that they took the Jews to the Soviet Union. As the judges were Soviets, why did Nazis claim such a thing if it was not true? They could have claimed that the Jews died from diseases. If they did not take Jews to the Soviet Union, it was obvious that the Soviet judges would know it. Considering everything I think Nazis took Jews to the Soviet Union.

    This is news to me. I had no idea such a claim was made, and will look into it.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Art
    , @jilles dykstra
  1677. @j2

    It is more correct to say Communists than Jews in this case.

    In many other cases as well.

  1678. Undecided says:
    @j2

    Actually, I’m simply uninformed and trying to understand the debate dispassionately.

    Do you not know that there was an escape route from Ukraine through Vienna? It goes along a river. The route ends to Romania, where you take a ship and try to get to some place close to Palestine. You might be interested in reading the book Jiri Langer: Nine gates.

    I did not know this; clearly my assumption was wrong. Thanks for the reference.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @j2
  1679. Occams says:
    @Polymath

    “The World Almanac for 1940 gives the world’s Jewish population as 15,319,359. The World Almanac for 1949 puts the number of Jews in the world at 15,713,638. “If the World Almanac figures are correct, “the world’s Jewish population did not decrease in the war decade, but showed a small increase.”.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1680. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “So I remain convinced that at least most of the great six million were actually killed by the Nazis. It remains the only plausible explanation of their fate.”

    – How were they supposedly killed?

    – Why don’t we see the human remains for your laughable “most of the great six million”?

    – Prove that “most of the great six million” are missing.

    People believe in the impossible ‘holocaust’ religion because they want to believe, they must believe.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1681. Wally says:
    @Undecided

    said:
    “What is frustrating is to see revisionists unwilling to go beyond that point dispassionately and to solve the huge problem as an actual problem of historical research.”

    A complete load of Zionist BS.
    see:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
    NEW!! ‘Holocaust Skepticism: 20 Questions & Answers about Holocaust Revisionism’ !! / now available: https://shop.codoh.com/book/456/469
    free pdf: http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/HolocaustSkepticism.pdf

    http://www.codoh.com

  1682. Erebus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    … when it has so little to do with the conversation you have intervened in.

    It has everything to do with it.
    In the 1st place, Israel’s existence is utterly dependent on the Empire, and said Empire was widely recognized to have reached a crossroads by the mid-’90s, when Brzezinski was writing.
    In the 2nd, Balkanisation of the M.E. depends on neutralizing of Iran. The latter, of course is all but unassailable without control of its AF, SY, PK & IQ borders. The ‘stans could wait, and in any case were cooperating.

    So, AF was what policy wonks call “overdetermined”. It suited both sides of the policy debate – the Neocon Imperialists, and the Neocon Israel-firsters. Neither were gonna get what they wanted unless AF went down.

    I admttedly made an error in assuming you’d internalized all that. Mea culpa.

    PS: your 9/11 “OBL motivation” scheme has, of course, been laughed out of court on its face here on Unz previously. However earnest OBL’s “motivation” may have been, your claim that it could set aside Newton’s Laws for even a few hours is absurd.
    PS2: This is a forum, not a private conversation. Intervention comes with the territory, and as you’ve been often castigated for introducing inanities into others’ conversations, I’m surprised you’d take such umbrage at the introduction of expansionary points into yours.

  1683. crimson2 says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    It’s not wood but WOOD, LOTS OF IT 150 TO 300 THOUSAND TONS OF IT you technically illiterate half wit. To burn 900k bodies you would need to have A GIGANTIC LUMBERJACKING OPERATION in Treblinka which no witness ever mentions and for which THEIR IS NO PROOF, THEIR IS NO MASSIVE DEFORESTATION AROUND THE AREA BECAUSE IF THERE WAS THE SOVIETS WOULD HAVE MENTIONED IT.

    Yes, yes. I understand that you deniers overestimate the amount of wood required and then claim impossibility.

    But what’s interesting is that I caught you in a lie and you pretend it never happened, don’t even mount a defense.

    Your “conversion story” is 100% bullshit. You and I both know it. But if you admit it and you admit your lies, then you admit that maybe Jews aren’t evil, and if they aren’t evil, controlling everything, then who is to blame for your deep-seated unhappiness? You? Inconceivable!

    • Replies: @Wally
  1684. @Erebus

    No umbrage taken at all. Just trying not to be too rude in saying “don’t waste your time or mine”.

    Your lack of logic shows again in your category error when you say the point about ObL having a clear simple motive for 9/11 is somehow negated by the pseudoscientific tripe you have picked up from equally ignorant people on the internet like that so-called architecrsandengineers shower that it would now require a professional suicide wish to sign. If you can ever get an introduction to some serious physicists or engineers do allow them to disabuse you of those popular lay arguments about fee fall and controlled demolitions.

    Yes I do recall laughter of the kind that advertises a hyenas IQ.

  1685. crimson2 says:
    @Occams

    Ah, more stupidity.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/worldalmanac.html

    The University of Alberta library has the World Almanac issues for the pertinent period for 1941, 1944, 1947, 1948, and 1949. The figures listed for total world Jewish population are as follows:

    1941 15,748,091
    1944 15,192,089
    1947 15,688,259
    1948 15,688,259
    1949 11,266,600

    Now you may be wondering what happened to all those Jews in 1948-49. No fresh estimates were made between 1938 and 1947. The figures listed for 1941, 1947, and 1948 are identified as estimates made in 1938.

    Nazis can’t even get the year right for their misleading claim. Superior race my ass.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1686. Otterboy says:
    @anonymous

    I enjoyed reading your interesting comments too, especially this one

    Best wishes

  1687. @Erebus

    And your efforts to read up on Boys Own Great Tales of the Raj and it’s sequel The Great Game Continues are noted as admirable amongst people who mostly don’t have passports or know the difference between Austria and Australia. The trouble is the Brzinzski-Variant-Neocon Syndrome simply won’t fly as a way of expplaining the getting up of that war in Iraq which I can accept was the main aim of the practical Israelis seeking to Balkanise their dangerous Muslim neighbourhood. Apart from not thinking, as any Great Gamer would, about the universal failure of attempts to conquer Afghanistan we have the geniuses who gave us the Iraq war thinking so little about Iran that they neither anticipated nor later noticed that they were handing over most of Iraq to Iranian controlling influence.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1688. Art says:
    @Undecided

    What is frustrating is to see revisionists unwilling to go beyond that point dispassionately and to solve the huge problem as an actual problem of historical research.

    Really – people in Europe who do research and come up with the wrong answers per the Jews – go to jail!

    We all know that it is Jews who will not allow actual research.

    You being “undecided” is JBS. You are a hasbara disinformation tool.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    • Agree: Them Guys
  1689. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    Poor crimson,
    Jews say they went to immense mass graves that do not exist. LOL
    Jews say that they died in gas chambers which are scientifically impossible. LOL

    To believe in the ‘holocaust’ religion one must want to believe, one must need to believe.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1690. j2 says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    about Göbbel’s diary “LOL. Like it wouldn’t have been tampered with.”

    Certainly Göbbel’s diary, parts that he supposedly dictated, could have been tampered with. But this sentence is so odd. It does not support the Soviet claim that later become the official claim. We all know that almost 100% of those sent to Operation Reinhard camps were murdered with carbon monoxide and later burned. Yet, Göbbel writes that 60% must be liquidated and only 40% used for work. That is odd. What does he mean? Why does it not agree with 100% being killed?

    So, 40% of 1.45M is 0.59M. This number was used for work, where? Where they were, Eastern front, so to build fortifications and fix bomber roads and airports, not a very healthy profession, but necessary, I agree. Most of people working in this profession get killed by bombs. Anyway, they would be killed if Germans withdraw: you cannot free prisoners capable of fighting you. I once read a book by Remarque, Love today, tomorrow. There a German soldier freed prisoners. They killed him, of course. Cannot do that in a war. So forget about seeing these Jews alive. And 0.15M, 10%, Germans killed for improving the race, social darwinism. Some people were killed in these camps as there are mass graves. And therefore the remaining 50% to be liquidated were liquidated but not killed. Turned to cash – that is what the word means. I can imagine that these people, not fit to work, not to fight, too young or too old, were turned into cash. Somebody paid for them. They were resettled, maybe to ghettos that there were, and forgotten by Germans.

    Really, it may be the sentence in Göbbel’s diary is a forgery, but maybe it is not. I do not know.

  1691. @Grahamsno(G64)

    The technique the Germans were using to burn the bodies was often referred to as roasting. It was a trench with logs/sleepers across it and the bodies laid on top. The trench restricted oxygen so the fire would burn slow. Fat from the bodies would fuel the fire. Much less wood would be needed than usual.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
    , @annamaria
  1692. Wally says:
    @crimson2

    And another of your problems for the mentioned Treblinka is the fact that 900,000 Jews were allegedly gassed in ‘diesel gas chambers’. LOL

    That alleged story is completely & scientifically impossible.

    My best suggestion to you is ‘When in a hole, stop digging’.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1693. utu says:
    @Undecided

    Why one would go through Vienna from Ukraine to get to Rumania it beats me. Just look at the map.

    • Replies: @j2
  1694. I had forgotten how extensive the abuse of dissenters on this topic was. I am not sure what one must deny to be a Holocaust denier, but as a boy I saw many men and women on the NYC subway with numbers tattooed on their arms so I don’t doubt the Nazis rounded up Jews and put them in camps and it appears from David Irving’s investigations that they shot large numbers as they advanced eastward. Whatever the facts may be, it is disgraceful the way we put up with the jailing of dissenters on this topic in so-called democracies. And, as one would have feared, the practice of censoring, blacklisting, ruining, and even jailing those with right-wing opinions has spread well beyond Holocaust denial to encompass speech that is seen as racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic. The current pressure on US foreign policy to intervene in eastern Europe and pick a fight with now-Christian Russia seems motivated by a desire to keep the Slavs under governments that can be relied on to repress any likely source of anti-Semitism and enforce political correctness generally. I wonder how many Christians think this is an acceptable policy. Do Jews really want to enforce this “reign of terror” over the gentiles? Are they protecting against some imagined future persecution? If so it looks like a rather risky strategy.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @annamaria
    , @annamaria
  1695. j2 says:
    @Undecided

    “Actually, I’m simply uninformed and trying to understand the debate dispassionately.”

    If you claim you are undecided try this. Do not first go to the question where the Jews who maybe went alive through Operation Reinhard camps ended up. All are dead anyway and we sincerely do not know. Try checking a simpler thing. You easily find the death tolls in extermination camps. They were all in present day Poland. Check that I do not cheat you (but you know that I don’t):
    – Auschwitz, Jewish deaths 1-1.5M
    – Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, together 1.45M
    – Majdanek, not less than 0.059M
    – Chelmno not less than 0.1M
    Sum is at least 1+1.45+0.059+0.1=2.61M.
    There were 0.41M Jewish survivors collected from concentration camps after the war. There were 88,000 Jews in Western Poland. That sums to 2.61+0.41+0.088=3.11M.

    Now check from any source (Yad Vashem or any Holocaust believer researcher), 1.2M were taken by Nazis from Western countries, where West is all other than Romania, Poland and the Soviet Union as in 1940. Find the census of Poland in 1931 and how many Jews escaped to East when Germany attacked in 1939 (it is about 187,000), you will verify that the Jewish population in Western Poland was 1.84M. Add 1.2M to 1.84M and it is 3.04M. Just a bit less than were killed in extermination camps, but were there not any deaths in other camps, Bergen-Belsen and so on? Can this be true? You know that it cannot be true. All Jews did not die in Poland in these few extermination camps.

    There were Jewish deaths in German camps, in my estimate some 0.3M, in Theresienstadt, some 0.03M, in ghettos and work camps, some 0.167M, and in battles (1939, terror and Warsaw ghetto uprisal 0.057M), together 0.554M. So, we are 0.6M short: there died more Jews in West and Western Poland than there were. You say, maybe these estimates are wrong, but how much can they be wrong, each individual figure is rather small. No, there had to be so many deaths in these places. Raoul Hilberg though that 1M died in ghettos, here it is a part of 0.167M. Cannot be smaller.

    Check that Jews were not transported from East to West. Very few were, it is netto 0.06M, this does not help. Nazis transported Jews from West to East, naturally there were not large transports from East to West, they were before Operation Reinhard really started.

    Find the numbers from the web or any reliable source you like. Verify that the Auschwitz story must be wrong, as more Jews died than there were. Do this if you actually are seeking the truth of the Holocaust, but somehow I do not believe you will and I doubt you are seeking any truth.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1696. @Wizard of Oz

    The German hyperinflation was the result of the French Belgian occupation of the Ruhr area, not enough free coal was given to France and Belgium as part of the dictated reparations, you know, the fairy tale about German guilt for WWI.
    The miners went on strike, the government printed money galore to pay them.
    This occupation, you can find it anywhere, was around 1924 1923.
    Germans with wages spent anything they got on the day they were paid, the next day is was worth less:
    Sebastian Haffner, ‘Het verhaal van een Duitser 1914-1933’, 2001 Amsterdam ( Geschichte eines Deutschen – Die Erinnerungen 1914- 1933, 2000, München)
    there may be an english translation,he describes how his mother in a taxi, followed by a maid with a hand cart, bought anything they needed for the whole month.
    Hitler’s career, the first thing he did looking like career was his participation in the 1923 rising, attempted coup.
    Police fired, Hitler was in the first line, Göring was hit, pain for the rest of his life, caused his opium addiction, someone else was killed.
    Göring was able to flee, Hitler was arrested.
    Thereafter Hitler was condemned to Festung Haft, a luxury prison, where he dictated Mein Kampf to Hess, also condemned.
    German misery continued, although Germany never paid anything, they ‘paid’ through USA loans to the USA.
    USA banksters ran the Weimar Republic, there were three committees, Owen, Dawes, forgot the name of the third.
    These ‘payments’ of course collapsed through the 1929 Wall Street crisis.
    Hoover had to ‘end’ the reparations payments,
    Hitler came democratically to power in 1933, when there were six million unemployed on a population of some 44 million.
    In 1936 the number of unemployed was reduced to one million, and Germany’s finances were, thanks to Schacht, sound again.

    • Replies: @refl
    , @Incitatus
  1697. @Undecided

    After the German occupation of western Poland in September 1939 many jews fled to the east.
    When the Red Army occupied the eastern half these jews were given the choice of declaring themselves communists, if not, deportation to the far east of the USSR.

  1698. j2 says:
    @utu

    “Why one would go through Vienna from Ukraine to get to Rumania it beats me. Just look at the map.”

    For sure it had nothing to do with Danube.

  1699. Anon[552] • Disclaimer says:

    “One 60kg cadaver contains about 40l of water. The rest is mostly non-flammable, which is why spontaneous combustion of corpses doesn’t happen.”

    A corpse can be induced to burn quite nicely with just the fat on the body and a modicum of oxygen. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what he’s talking about. In fact, this explains “spontaneous human combustion” quite nicely: old people drop a cigarette on themselves, and, under certain conditions, they burn completely to ash. This has been confirmed in experiments using pig corpses; anyone who isn’t intellectually dishonest or lazy is welcome to look up the relevant YouTube video.

    The “spontaneous” part derives from paranormal conspiracy theories because people couldn’t explain how a body could simply reduce itself to ash when normally the bone would remain. However, it is now understood that this is possible due to the slow burn provided by the adipose tissue present on the body. Older people and women are more susceptible to being completely reduced to ash because they have much lower bone densities. A lot of these types of phenomenon arose in the 70s – 90s, before the internet.

  1700. Wally says:
    @j2

    [Too much content-free repetition.]

  1701. Anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    “There are a handful such claimed cases, but these have been extremely thick people. A normal human body does not burn without external energy.”

    That’s not correct. Most of these supposed cases involve the elderly, and many of those cases involve thin, nearly emaciated, types. They were reduced to ash due to their lower bone density. Under appropriate circumstances (thick clothing, dry environment, lack of mobility, and sometimes nearby oxygen tank), they can sustain a flame long enough to ignite adipose. The fat will burn hot enough and long enough to incinerate the body. Once a body starts burning, it is possible to sustain a flame for quite some time. This is why the man’s description, especially the part about women burning more easily, strikes me as plausible.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1702. Wally says:
    @jack daniels

    Jack:
    1. Think about it, tattoos on living people from alleged “extermination camp” Auschwitz, it’s claimed that ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on’.
    Only some at Auschwitz received tattoos, nowhere else. BTW, the SS also received tattoos stating blood type.

    2. Irving has done no “investigation”. He is now trying to play ‘holocaust-lite’ after being released from jail early.
    recommended:
    Irving’s ‘holocaust’ lite / but what ’2.4 million document’?: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548
    and :
    ‘Irving attempts ‘rehabilitation’ via the Hoefle Telegram’ :
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4558
    and:
    Grubach’s Open Letter to David Irving on his recent change of mind about the Holocaust: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4563

    [MORE]

    On the alleged Einsatzgruppen shooting of innocents:

    Per their alleged ‘Holocaust by Bullets’ the ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

  1703. FKA Max says: • Website
    @phil

    I was shocked when I saw that mainstream and Yale historian Timothy Snyder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_D._Snyder praised and cited Vasily Grossman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Grossman :

    There were articulate Soviet Jewish witnesses and chroniclers, such as Vassily Grossman. But he and others were forbidden from presenting the Holocaust as a distinctly Jewish event. Grossman discovered Treblinka as a journalist with the Red Army in September 1944. Perhaps because he knew what the Germans had done to Jews in his native Ukraine, he was able to guess what had happened there, and wrote a short book about it. He called Treblinka “hell,” and placed it at the center of the war and of the century. Yet for Stalin, the mass murder of Jews had to be seen as the suffering of “citizens.” Grossman helped to compile a Black Book of German crimes against Soviet Jews, which Soviet authorities later suppressed. If any group suffered especially under the Germans, Stalin maintained wrongly, it was the Russians. In this way Stalinism has prevented us from seeing Hitler’s mass killings in proper perspective.

    https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2009/07/16/holocaust-the-ignored-reality/

    Grossman had claimed that 3 million Jews were murdered in Treblinka:

    Grossman on the victim figure

    At average operations pace the lethal chambers of the Treblinka hell were filled at least two [or] three times a day (there were days when they were filled as many as six times). At the lowest estimate, two loadings a day of the new chambers alone meant the destruction of some 10,000 persons daily or some 300,000 every month. Treblinka was in operation every day for thirteen months. If however, we allow ninety days for stoppage, repairs and hitches in the delivery of the victims, it still leaves ten months of continuous operation. If the average number of victims a month was 300,000, in ten months Treblinka destroyed three million lives. Again we have the same fearful figure: three million; the first time we arrived at it through a deliberately low estimate of [the] number of victims brought in by train.

    (p.23)

    http://archive.is/9DQk1#selection-613.0-629.6

  1704. j2 says:
    @Anon

    I once looked at this from the web. So, there are a handful of cases when it has been concluded that a body burned to ashes by itself. None of these cases are very convincing, but some were accepted in a court. The people were very fat, like the pigs. They dropped a burning cigarette or something on their highly inflammable clothes while being passed out, and the body burned. The fat burned like in a candle only because of the clothing. This is absolutely no argument to use for concentration camp inmates, who did not have fat and had quite rough clothes from normal textiles. Human body requires external energy to burn, apart from some special cases of very fatty people. It is really desperate if Holocaust believers have to take this very rare phenomenon to explain the absurd eyewitness statements. I think we should consider deeper Ron Unz’s suggestion that Nazis sent the bodies to Venus. It is more likely than that the bodies burned without external energy.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1705. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “A corpse can be induced to burn quite nicely with just the fat on the body and a modicum of oxygen. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what he’s talking about. In fact, this explains “spontaneous human combustion” quite nicely: old people drop a cigarette on themselves, and, under certain conditions, they burn completely to ash. This has been confirmed in experiments using pig corpses; anyone who isn’t intellectually dishonest or lazy is welcome to look up the relevant YouTube video.”

    LOL, you are unhinged.

    Is that why the Germans used lot’s of expensive war time coke for fuel in their disease control cremations?
    Is that why modern crematoriums spend lots of money for cremation fuel?

    How Cremation Works: https://science.howstuffworks.com/cremation1.htm

    http://www.codoh.com

  1706. refl says:
    @jilles dykstra

    In September 1922 – during the Ruhrkampf with Germany being crippled by ever higher inflation – the a certain Captain Truman Smith of the American embassy in Berlin went to Munich and had a number of talks with German figures of the right, like the former bavarian prince Ruprecht of Bavaria or former Generalquartiermeister Erich Ludendorff. He was pointed to a promising young man who ran a right wing populist party and was a great orator.
    After meeting that orator he handed him over to a German American by the name of Ernst Hanfstaengl, son of a family of art dealers in New York who had to return to Germany after WWI.
    Thus, the failed artist Adolf Hitler met his prince: Cultivated, interested in art and a good piano player, who gave him money for the first time in his life, and not worthless Marks, but US-dollars.

    Hanfstaengl made it possible to get a regular party newspaper going, the Völkischer Beobachter, his wife taught Hitler to dress, and most of all, Hitler could escape to the Hanfstaengl house after the failed coup in Munich. Hanfstaengl inspired Hitler to write “Mein Kampf” and got him going on his basical foreign politics ideas: anti-russian, anti-communist, anti-jewish also, but first of all pro-british.

    Hanfstaengl stayed in Hitlers inner circle up to 1937, when he finally had to flee from Germany and ended up working for the Roosevelt administration during the war.
    By the way, the most thrilling part of Ernst Hanfstaengls dealings, whom one can see as Hitlers handler, is that he was living temporarily in the Reichstagspräsidentenpalais on the night when the Reichstag was set on fire (the building with the tunnel right into the Reichstag-cellar).
    The night when the Reichstag burned, he was at home because he had a flue, and it was him who called the party leadership to the scene.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1707. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @phil

    I am not staking anything on this, but what about Birobizhan?

    You know the new homeland/settlement for Jews that the So0viets had established. check it out.

    It did not do too well because the Jews did not like it there. Too far from everything. The main language was Yiddish and you can still find signs in Yiddish.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @phil
  1708. utu says:
    @j2

    The Soviets had at that time already taken Eastern Poland.

    I had to stop reading at this point. In April-May 1944 when the talks between Eichmann and Brand were conducted most of the Eastern Poland was still in Germany’s hands.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Atlas_of_the_World_Battle_Fronts_in_Semimonthly_Phases_to_August_15_1945

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1709. utu says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    All Eichmann could offer in May 1944 was one million Jews. This deal could have saved the III Reich if the Western Allies agreed. Would Germany offer more Jews to get that deal? Sure. But they did not. Why? Because in May 1944 the remaining several millions of Jews that were under German jurisdiction in 1941 and 1942 were already dead and everybody knew it..

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1710. Strangely, the Germans were quite willing to discipline their concentration camp guards for excessive cruelty and send them to the Eastern Front in a penal battalion.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Martin_Sommer

  1711. @Anon

    Absolutely hilarious! There is this convergence of evidence again. Yet another Holocaustian claiming Jews are flammable.

    Ivan Lagache operated North America’s largest crematoria. He testified at the Zundel trial. Anyone interested in understanding what it takes to cremate a body can read the link below.

    I’m starting to wonder if they should have signs posted at Jewsh funerals reading

    WARNING! DEAD JEW! NO SMOKING WITHIN 50 FEET!

    http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/26lagace.html

    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    , @Them Guys
  1712. @Yellowford

    QUOTE The technique the Germans were using to burn the bodies was often referred to as roasting END QUOTE

    The things one learns from reading the whoppers of Holocaustians. Now we discover that in addition to Mechanical Jew Dryers as described by Anon365, we are shocked to discover that the mean, wicked Nazi’s also had Jew Roasters!

    What next? Are we going to hear about the dogs with poison teeth, as one Jew claimed when he told his whopper to ClaimsCon?

    http://www.claimscon.org/about/history/closed-programs/medical-experiments/personal-statements-from-victims/

    • LOL: Grahamsno(G64)
    • Replies: @Yellowford
  1713. FKA Max says: • Website
    @utu

    utu,

    apparently Eichmann just made up the figure because there was competition between different German agencies for the Jews to be used as leverage in negations (and/or as slave laborers, see for more details quotations and information below) and Eichmann, as a representative of the SS and Himmler, wanted to make sure that his agency/group would benefit from and win the potential deal. There might have been many more than 1 million Jews available to trade for goods, etc., or fewer and he was just bluffing, but Eichmann does not strike me as someone who would make promises that he couldn’t keep.

    Come what may, I had to outbid the activities of these two agencies, Becher and also the counter-intelligence people. That was quite obvious to me. And when my people came back and said that, after all, there were all sorts of things that could be done, I continued to chew things over and realized that it must be some large offer which my superiors would accept. That would then make it possible to snatch back for myself these matters which Becher and the counter- intelligence were running, these emigration matters.

    One day Joel Brand came to see me. As to how he came to see me, where he came from, who brought it about – I do not remember and therefore can no longer say. But there is one thing I do remember. I can still see Joel Brand sitting in front of me…and what I said to…roughly what I asked him…what Joel Brand also said here in his testimony, as to how it began.

    In the meanwhile, I had simply changed the figure of 100,000 or 200,000, which was to help me remember, into a million, because that was a figure I could – let us say for psychological reasons – bring up with my superiors without running the danger of being ordered out of the room immediately. Because if I had offered sympathy or compassion, or five thousand or ten thousand, Mueller would not have heard me out. He just would not have listened to what I had to say. But this whole business of one million was something new. It was too big for Mueller to be able to reject on his own initiative.

    http://archive.is/DSZ9u#selection-117.0-125.598 and more details here https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2496649

    David Crowe writes that the SS had become an economic force in its own right by 1944, thanks to its plundering of Jewish businesses and ownership of factories that used slave labour from concentration camps.[20] Jewish rescue workers made several attempts to exploit SS corruption. Gisi Fleischmann and Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl paid Dieter Wisliceny $20,000 in 1942 to suspend the deportation of Jews from Slovakia, though whether the bribe was the reason for the suspension is debatable.[21]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Brand#Invasion_of_Hungary

    Browning divides the officials of the Government-General of occupied Poland into two factions. One, the “Productionists”, favored using Jews of the ghettos as a source of slave labor to help with the war effort. The other, the “Attritionists”, favored letting the Jews of the ghettos starve and die of disease. At the same time, there were struggles between the SS and Hans Frank, the Governor-General of Poland. The SS favored “The Nisko/Lublin Plan” of creating a “Jewish Reservation” in Lublin, Poland, into which all the Jews of Greater Germany, Poland and the former Czechoslovakia were to be expelled. Frank was opposed to the “Lublin Plan” on the ground that the SS were “dumping” Jews into his territory. Frank together with Hermann Göring wished for Government-General of Poland to become the “granary” of the Reich, and opposed the ethnic cleansing schemes of Heinrich Himmler and Arthur Greiser as disruptive of economic conditions.[15]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning#Browning’s_interpretation_of_the_Holocaust

    As you can observe in the following video many women and probably even teen-aged slave labor was employed in German factories, particularly in jobs and tasks that required smaller/more delicate hands like precision weaponry and munitions manufacturing and tool making, for example. Eichmann himself stated the following about the fate of the deported Hungarian Jews “But, contrary to legend, the majority of the deportees were not gassed at all but put to work in munitions plants.https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2498493 :

    Munitions factory in Germany, World War Two. Film 90858

    • Replies: @Wally
  1714. @Wally


    As an aside, why would insisting six million or so Jews were deliberately murdered be a ‘comforting lie,’ but claiming the bulk actually survived be an ‘unpleasant truth’?

    • Replies: @Wally
  1715. @Anonymous

    ‘I am not staking anything on this, but what about Birobizhan?

    At a pure guess, Birobizhan never had more than thirty thousand settlers or something — but you can look it up.

    I’m confident it’s not an explanation for the supposedly mysteriously missing Jews.

  1716. @utu

    He was somewhat inaccurate but you’re being pedantic. The Soviets were clearly knocking on the door at that stage. Are you sure you aren’t conflating Poland’s pre- and post-war borders?

    • Replies: @j2
  1717. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Because people like you take ‘comfort’ in their perverted fantasy of ‘6M dead Jews’, absurd and impossible as that ‘6M’ is. Such fantasies are appropriately described as religions.

    True Believers in such impossible & absurd religions experience a distinct sense of ‘unpleasantness’ when their impossible religious beliefs are shown to be wrong.

    “It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.”
    – Robert Heinlein

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1718. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Only a Zionist would cite Wikipedia for such matters:
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    Sassen debunked:
    Sassen / Letter to the New York Review of Books, By David Merlin : https://codoh.com/library/document/3909/?lang=en

    Sassen / Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the ‘Final Solution’, By Brian A. Renk : https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en

    Sassen / Was Adolf Eichmann kidnapped by Mossad for his involvement in the ‘Holocaust’?, By Wilfried Heink : https://codoh.com/library/document/4490/?lang=en

    Sassen / The Eichmann Gambit, By George Brewer : https://codoh.com/library/document/388/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1719. MrPaul50 says:

    Decades ago, I read several books on the subject, pro and con. I do find problems with some of them. I read Lipstadt’s highly-lauded book when it first appeared and found it lacking in expertise. I read a well-regarded, first-hand account (in paperback) of a prisoner’s escape from a concentration camp (the title of which I can’t remember) which seemed like fiction. I also read a very thick book by a retired German judge (can’t recall this title, either) which had tons of footnotes, was quite scholarly, raised serious questions, and denied the holocaust.

    Paul Rassinier’s theory made a lot of sense to me. The war produced mass migrations on an unprecedented scale. The idea that Jews who had vanished from their original countries were counted as eliminated but many who had moved elsewhere weren’t deducted from the calculations seemed plausible. The proposition that an accurate count in the early postwar years could have been performed still seems unlikely to me. Additionally, exaggerating the numbers killed would have been prudent for surviving Jews, whether or not they anticipated compensation of some sort.

    Still, I find it hard to believe that “special treatment” for Jewish prisoners meant extra food and pillows. What I do believe is that two to three million Jews were killed by the Nazis, whatever the means. I believe some gassings took place, but not on the ’round-the-clock scale imagined by supporters of the five or six million figure. Intentional starvation and disease may have been the major causes of death; it doesn’t really matter. I also believe that many “deniers” are simply anti-Jew, and have no interest in historical truth — and that just as many “pro-Holocaust” scholars are entrenched in their positions, come what may.

    Even two million (or a tenth of that) killed by the Nazis was a horrific, criminal act. Let’s just get to the most accurate number possible and move on. By the way, I’m Jewish.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Wally
    , @Otterboy
  1720. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    quoted Eichmann:
    “But, contrary to legend, the majority of the deportees were not gassed at all but put to work in munitions plants.”

    As I have proven, Eichmann made countless absurd and impossible claims. The above is another.
    There were no gassings of Hungarian Jews at all and FKA Max cannot prove there was. In fact, the entire ‘Nazi gassings’ claims are scientifically impossible.

    FKA Max cannot present proof to the contrary.

    See my comment #1492, ‘ ON THE BOGUS & ABSURD EICHMANN “CONFESSIONS” ‘
    & 1753 on SASSEN & EICHMANN.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1721. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    You don’t realize that what you wrote doesn’t make sense…evil know no limits.

    Read it again if you don’t understand. Only Jewish evil knows no limits. Even the worst white monarch wouldn’t be trying to genocide his own race unless he was under the influence of the Tribe. Talking about chutzpah (hubris and stupidity, in my book).

    Jewish Power and secret societies gave us empires and centralization.

    They gave us endless suffering. It’s an ugly, diseased, deformed cult and they’re way out of their depth now.

    “the Tribe is trying to genocide my race”….This doesn’t make sense. If they genocide your race, who would be their slaves ? A master race needs slaves, no ?

    The plan was to have low-IQ, mystery meat slaves. Couldn’t you figure it out? Pay attention, please.

    Victims, they’re not!

    Everyone is a victim right now. Even the chosenites.

  1722. Alex says:

    your points about the Jewish establishment and the Malleable nature of Holocaust studies is interesting. My family was from Nieswies, waysrysland or BSSR. They were almost all murdered by the capitalists in 1941 And 1942.

    In 2014 I was one of the first in my family to return to our home town and there I interviewed a woman who was generally hostile to the Jews but knew my great-grandfather and cousins. She testified as to the Killing of my family on October 30th and 31st 1941 and then again July 21st 1942.

    She did not like the Jews because she had fond memories of the Polish occupation police as a girl and most Jews worked with or supported the Red Army and the NKVD to shoot or deport the Polish occupiers bad Jewish capitalists Nobles Etc. The same is true of the peasants. Generally as with was the case in his semi feudal society the Polish townspeople and peasantry supported the failed Polish semi-feudal state because it gave them privileges and were against the Soviet Union because it would take away those privileges.

    In the interwar period the Polish imperialists ran a failed semi-feudal state from Warsaw and they were punished for starving the peasants the workers and the Jews for refusing to carry out land and labor reform Etc by a coalition of native peasantry Jewish townspeople The Red Army and the NKVD.

    Further west the petit bourgeoisie of Western Europe not only refused to ally itself with the working classes but actively worked to crush workers rebellions which ultimately led to fascism two invasions of the Soviet Union and the genocide of the Jews and gypsies.

    Unfortunately the stalinist bureaucracy by 1945 was too politically counter-revolutionary to occupy all of Western Europe after the war overthrow capitalism and execute and imprison the collaborating elements there. However the stalinist bureaucracy was socially revolutionary enough to overthrow capitalism out to Berlin and build a higher better order albeit at the cost of 20 million murdered by Western imperialism.

    In regards to the cost of stalinism in the USSR the right likes to construct all sorts of bogey men but if you Google Alexander Cockburn and Stalin you will find an article where Cockburn interviews demographers specializing in the history of the USSR and the outer limit on total number of deaths is at 6 million.

    Again this because of the betrayal of the western petit bourgeoisie. The RF SSR and Bolsheviks were forced into primitive socialist accumulation which came at a definite and tragic cost but one at a magnitude lower than primitive capitalist accumulation and also at a cost which was a magnitude lower then the capitalist final solution of the interwar period. Not to mention the imperialist mass murderer of millions around the world from the end of World War II in the form of Wars starvation preventable diseases refusal to develop infrastructure Etc. To give one example your class murderers the equivalent of the victims of World War II every 6 years I believe it is among children according to the calculations of the UN at the time of the destruction of the Soviet Union.

  1723. Anon[736] • Disclaimer says:

    “LOL, you are unhinged. Is that why the Germans used lot’s of expensive war time coke for fuel in their disease control cremations? Is that why modern crematoriums spend lots of money for cremation fuel? How Cremation Works.”

    The link you provided is completely irrelevant because how “cremation” works is not at question here. Crematories operate the way they do because the aim is to destroy the body in a reasonable time period and with maximal respect for the dead, not because a body cannot be destroyed by other means; a long burn fueled by body fat (very inhumane and disrespectful towards the family) isn’t really an option in civilized society.

    Implicit in your argument is the following: “cremation is difficult and requires lots of fuel; therefore, burning a human body also requires a similar process to cremation, meaning that Wiernik is lying.” That is incorrect. The latter statement is not a corollary of the former. What Wiernik witnessed could have been accomplished by other means.

    In a nutshell, the SHC explanation:

    “Almost all cases of SHC involve persons with low mobility due to advanced age or obesity, along with poor health. Victims show a high likelihood of having died in their sleep, or of being unable to move once they had caught fire. Cigarettes are often seen as the source of fire, as the improper disposal of smoking materials causes one in every four fire deaths in the United States. Natural causes such as heart attacks may lead to the victim dying, subsequently dropping the cigarette, which after a period of smouldering can ignite the victim’s clothes. The “wick effect” hypothesis suggests that a small external flame source, such as a burning cigarette, chars the clothing of the victim at a location, splitting the skin and releasing subcutaneous fat, which is in turn absorbed into the burned clothing, acting as a wick. This combustion can continue for as long as the fuel is available.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion

    AND how it relates to the Yankiel Wiernik claim:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wick_effect

    Therefore, his claim is completely plausible. In the case of the Nazis, they used relatively small amounts of another fuel source to substitute for the clothing and often dug trenches to lower the oxygen flow. This produced a long, hot burn fueled by body fat, similar to SHC cases. There is, or was, a readily available video on YouTube showing a pig carcass destroyed in a similar manner, and WITHOUT a significant fuel source such as wood, simulating SHC.

    This is what we on the right side of the Bell Curve have to put up with on a near daily basis. What can be accomplished easily for us must be explained to others as if they were children. It gets very tiring.

    One of the reasons why Holocaust Denial is illegal is that we in the cognitive elite fear where this kind of discussion could go if led by easily-deceived simpletons. It’s not that we can’t accept a lower figure for the Holocaust, it’s that low IQ sheep might use the argument as an excuse to do something horrible. Thus, the six million figure is accepted without question. Sure, it could be 3 million or maybe just 1.5 million, but that’s not the point. The point is that sheep don’t get to have a stage to dismiss the entire thing out of hand and call for another one while they are at it. If the average human IQ were 120, perhaps things would be different. But in a society where the global mean IQ is in the low-to-mid 80s, that is not a possibility.

  1724. peterAUS says:
    @MrPaul50

    What I do believe is that two to three million Jews were killed by the Nazis, whatever the means. I believe some gassings took place, but not on the ’round-the-clock scale imagined by supporters of the five or six million figure. Intentional starvation and disease may have been the major causes of death; it doesn’t really matter. I also believe that many “deniers” are simply anti-Jew, and have no interest in historical truth — and that just as many “pro-Holocaust” scholars are entrenched in their positions, come what may.
    Even two million (or a tenth of that) killed by the Nazis was a horrific, criminal act. Let’s just get to the most accurate number possible and move on.

    Pretty much.

    By the way, I’m Jewish.

    Ah.
    Brace yourself. Good luck.

  1725. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Wally

    Only a Zionist would cite Wikipedia for such matters

    Hitler did nothing wrong and all Germans (and Austrians) are Angels!

    Are you happy now, Wally hahahahaha

    Paul van Dyk & Peter Heppner – Wir Sind Wir

    Joachim Witt and Peter Heppner – Die Flut (The Flood) with lyrics in English Translation

    U 96 – Das Boot

    Rammstein Stripped

  1726. crimson2 says:
    @j2

    Human body requires external energy to burn, apart from some special cases of very fatty people. It is really desperate if Holocaust believers have to take this very rare phenomenon to explain the absurd eyewitness statements.

    What are you talking about? The eyewitness testimony talks about how difficult it was to burn the bodies with only gasoline.

    More here:

    https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/by3-exhumation/

    Then two rows of logs were put down and then a layer of corpses, then more logs and then more corpses. After this everything was doused with oil and burnt.

    • Replies: @Hegwood
  1727. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    “I once looked at this from the web.”

    I doubt it. It took me just 5 seconds to find a source validating my claim.

    “So, there are a handful of cases when it has been concluded that a body burned to ashes by itself.”

    A fairly large number of cases, actually. About one in four burn deaths come from cigarettes, and a fairly sizeable subset constitute SHC-type cases.

    “None of these cases are very convincing, but some were accepted in a court.”

    Not convincing but accepted in court? Sounds like experts thought they were convincing enough.

    “The people were very fat, like the pigs.”

    Many of the victims were elderly and not fat, like pigs.

    “They dropped a burning cigarette or something on their highly inflammable clothes while being passed out, and the body burned.”

    So what?

    “The fat burned like in a candle only because of the clothing.”

    Clothing can be substituted for other fuel sources or with another set up (see above post). The point is that it can be done, not that it can ONLY be done a certain way.

    “This is absolutely no argument to use for concentration camp inmates, who did not have fat and had quite rough clothes from normal textiles.”

    Well, the fact that emaciated old people die in fires and burn up quite nicely all the time seems to contradict that claim a little bit. There are readily available pictures of the phenomenon on the internet. Furthermore, even malnourished people still have some body fat for a period of time as the body burns both fat and protein in roughly equal quantities during starvation.

    “Human body requires external energy to burn, apart from some special cases of very fatty people.”

    Wrong. The human body merely needs an external energy source to START burning. After that, fat can suffice on the average human, even on an emaciated elderly person. Otherwise, candles wouldn’t be a thing.

    “It is really desperate if Holocaust believers…”

    Says the guy who dismisses known science out of hand.

    “…have to take this very rare phenomenon…”

    A very common phenomenon.

    “…to explain the absurd eyewitness statements…”

    A quite reasonable eyewitness statement considering the evidence at hand. I doubt the eyewitness knew much about how human bodies burn. So, his very telling claim that women burn better (they do) is more or less prima facie evidence that he told the truth.

    “I think we should consider deeper Ron Unz’s suggestion that Nazis sent the bodies to Venus. It is more likely than that the bodies burned without external energy.”

    It is it really THIS hard for the left side of the Bell Curve?

  1728. bj says:

    The Christian religion is about a God who passed through human death and then came back. The Holocaustian religion is about six million Jews who tragically died in gas chambers, then mysteriously come back later to take the cash. Not only were they still there after the war, but they have even multiplied: more “Holocaust survivors” have taken remuneration from Germany than ever there were Jews in countries under Nazi control.

    Dr. Nicholas Kollerstrom: Breaking The Spell- The Holocaust Myth and Reality page 133

    http://911tv.org/Library/LB-0004%20Kollerstrom%20-%20Breaking%20the%20Spell.pdf

  1729. Anon[210] • Disclaimer says:

    “As I have proven, Eichmann made countless absurd and impossible claims.”

    Perhaps. But you have also embraced some pretty absurd things (Wikipedia a Zionist plot?). What does that say about your competence in this matter?

  1730. Wally says:
    @MrPaul50

    LENGTHY, select ‘MORE’ if necessary.

    You’ve got a start anyway. However, your cognitive dissonance and religious fervor are still causing you problems.

    – Your false strawman is noted. No one said ‘special treatment’ meant “extra food and pillows”. There is no proof that it meant ‘extermination’. I challenge you to bring it if you think you can. That’s really on old one.

    – Please present proof for your ” two to three million Jews were killed by the Nazis”. Simple.

    – Recall that it’s claimed by Jew ‘historians’ that truly immense humans remains exist in allegedly known mass grave locations, but those remains are not there. So….

    – The alleged gassing were scientifically impossible, therefore they did not and could not have occurred t all. Why do you believe in a scientific impossibility?

    – Why would the Germans intentionally starve their labor force? They wouldn’t. Staff at the labor sites ate like the laborers ate. Disease, particulary typhus was huge problem throughout Europe in WWII and of course the German sites, hence the need for the insecticide Zyklon-B.
    The unintentional death rates were exacerbated by illegal Allied strafing and bombing of civilian food & medical transports to the sites.

    – Yes it does matter. Just ask your ‘Holocaust Indu$try” & rabbi about the alleged ‘unique and unparalleled event’.

    – There certainly are many people, for many reasons that could be aid to be “anti-Jew’, after all, Jew anti-gentile behavior brought that about. Science is science nonetheless. You classic ‘woe is we’ is irrelevant.

    No need to mention it, it’s obvious that you are a Jew.

    [MORE]

    BTW: Jews have been pushing their ‘6,000,000’ lie since at least 1823: https://imgur.com/a/0LFFF
    and: http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @MrPaul50
  1731. If there is one single corpse the Germans wanted to burn and make disappear during WWII it was the the corpse of Joseph Goebbels.

    Unfortunately, human bodies do not burn outdoors without significant external fuel source. So normal humans wind up looking like the photo below.

    Jews on, the other hand, burst into flames if you wrap ” a well-nourished man and an emaciated woman, or vice versa, together with that of a child, because, as the experiments had established, in this combination, once they had caught fire, the dead would continue to burn without any further coke being required.”

    Someone should figure out what makes Jews so flammable and patent the stuff. They seem to be more dangerous than Naptha.

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-burned-corpse-of-joseph-goebbels-usage-worldwide-163779024.html

    http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-07.html

  1732. Brewer says:
    @Anon

    One of the reasons why Holocaust Denial is illegal is that we in the cognitive elite fear where this kind of discussion could go if led by easily-deceived simpletons.

    Ahhh yes.
    I get your point. So did Galileo. Criminalizing opinion/science is such an honorable tradition (among “cognitive elites” at least).

  1733. Hegwood says:
    @crimson2

    Strange, that’s not your eyewitness said happened at Treblinka. Are you saying you were there and this is what you saw.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  1734. peterAUS says:
    @Anon

    One of the reasons why Holocaust Denial is illegal is that we in the cognitive elite fear where this kind of discussion could go if led by easily-deceived simpletons. It’s not that we can’t accept a lower figure for the Holocaust, it’s that low IQ sheep might use the argument as an excuse to do something horrible. Thus, the six million figure is accepted without question. Sure, it could be 3 million or maybe just 1.5 million, but that’s not the point. The point is that sheep don’t get to have a stage to dismiss the entire thing out of hand and call for another one while they are at it. If the average human IQ were 120, perhaps things would be different. But in a society where the global mean IQ is in the low-to-mid 80s, that is not a possibility.

    I guess that sums it up.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  1735. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    These old comments of mine might be of interest to you:

    I very much doubt that such temperatures could be achieved on the Operation Reinhard camps’ cremation piles/grills, or even, for that matter, in the Auschwitz crematoria. Plus the Dresden bombings victims were still wearing their clothing which could be soaked with gasoline and function as a burn/fire [accelerant], whereas Holocaust victims were, as I understand, naked when they were put on the cremation grills, so they were probably even harder to burn. There were probably also plenty of rainy and snowy days when the Operation Reinhard camps were in use, which would have made using cremation grills even more difficult and inefficient, in my opinion.

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2391719

    Then the dead were burned at the rate of one pyre per day, with around five hundred corpses per pyre. The task was efficiently done. To reduce that number of human remains to fine ash without access to a purpose-built crematorium is a technically problematic process. It was carried out under the supervision of outside SS experts. They were said to be former staff from the notorious extermination camp at Treblinka. Between February 21 and March 5, when the last pyre was lit, 6,865 bodies were burned on the Altmarkt.
    […]
    So, it takes “SS experts […] said to be former staff from the notorious extermination camp at Treblinka” with the help from the surviving population of Dresden (probably hundreds or thousands of people) 13 days to burn/cremate around 7000 bodies, but at Belzec “The burnings were carried out day and night without interruption, first at one and then at two fireplaces. One fireplace allowed for burning about 2,000 corpses within 24 hours.” http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/12/belzec-sobibor-treblinka-holocaust_3633.html#_ftn4 and the “burning process lasted “up to five hours” [per pyre of 1,000 bodies according to “Ukrainian Leleko”]” http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/12/belzec-sobibor-treblinka-holocaust_2777.html#_ftn199 , while in Dresden it took 24 hours to burn about 500 bodies.

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2392883

    U.S. generals Eisenhower, Bradley, Patton, and Eddy inspect a cremation pyre at the camp on April 12, 1945, after liberation

    The narrator calls it the “crude woodland crematory” in the following video:

    Ohrdruf Cremation Grill

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2393372

    • Replies: @Wally
  1736. anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    If you want to hear the Official Story about What Happened to the Ashes, be prepared for even more incredible tales. There are many; most contradict one another and nearly all are contradicted by the laws of physics.

  1737. Miggle says:

    The Jews killed 6,000,000 Jews, and have covered it up ever since.

    This article includes a collection of more than 30 images of New York Times news articles into the 19th century related to Jews and mentioning the number 6,000,000. One example from 1918 asking for a billion dollars to rebuild post-war Jewry starts with the words “Six million souls need help.” Others have it that there are 6,000,000 Jews in Russia, one from 1914 is concerned with the plight of 6,000,000 Jews within the war zone, and more and more of that. The earliest shown, dated Oct 31, 1867, merely contains a sentence commencing, “There are 6,000,000 Jews in the world …”.

    It might be a mere selection from a larger number of articles with other estimated numbers. But the number 6,000,000 is repeated so many times that there appears to be an obsession with that number.

    How much further back does the obsession go? Was it in existence before the New York Times was founded? Decades before? Centuries before? Many?

    A difficulty we have in assessing that is that Jewish history has always been kept hidden, suppressed, excepting only the commemorations of supposed persecutions of Jews.

    Even at the present time the “Jewish interest” has been giving us “a deceitful, sentimental and ultra-romantic Jewish historiography, from which all inconvenient facts have been expunged”, to quote Israel Shahak, his “Jewish History” 1994 edition page [16], and “the same utterly false conception of history” page [17].

    Referring to recent centuries he also writes (page [19]) that “the writing of Jewish history ceased completely from the time of Josephus Flavius (end of first century)”, and “the rabbis feared Jewish even more than general history”, and (page [20]) “The first book on Jewish history proper (dealing with ancient times) was promptly banned and suppressed by the highest rabbinical authorities, and did not reappear before the 19th century.”

    I have quoted sources in my UR comment numbered 153 at Israel’s Fifth Column, dealing with the wiping out of the pre-Talmudic, Hellenistic Jews by the Talmudic Jews as soon as the Roman Empire gave the Talmudic rabbis totalitarian power, the power of life and death over all Jews, including the words,

    … we see indications of a most dreadful catastrophe. The entire rich culture of Hellenistic Judaism, which had been carried by many millions through the whole post-classical ancient world and far beyond the eastern borders of Mesopotamia, had been systematically annihilated, with terrible consequences. Talmudic Jewry destroyed its Greek-speaking sister, …

    Centuries later Talmudic Jewry eliminated the Karaite Jews from Spain by flogging them to death or until they surrendered and undertook to accept Talmudic rabbinical rule, and many must have fled from Spain, but here we are talking about the entire world, an unbelievably vast region from the western edge of the Roman Empire to the eastern edge of Alexander’s conquests and beyond, which had within it such a large number of Hellenistic Jews that many writers of the time remarked on that hugeness. I quote a couple in that other comment.

    In other words, flogging all the Jews of the world into submission, the relatively small number of Talmudic Jews doing that to the huge, centuries-old communities of Hellenistic Jews, simply could not have been contemplated. They must simply have hired many killer gangs.

    So there we are. The Talmudic Jews killed 6,000,000 Hellenistic Jews. That’s where the obsession with that number comes from. That is why the Nazis are blamed for what the Jews did, and why in Europe it’s criminal to deny that.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Miggle
    , @Anon
    , @j2
    , @crimson2
  1738. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    LENGTHY, but very worth it, select ‘MORE’ if necessary.

    FKA Max:
    Ron Unz earlier in this thread had this to say about what you keep presenting: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?” LOL

    See full text of Ron’s comment here: Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985
    Yet you continue to post bizarre & impossible claims in attempts to cover for the compltete lack millions of human remains, your use of the charlatans of ‘Holocaust Controversies’, who have been refuted repeatedly( see comment 1252) simply blows up in your face. Predictably you dodged countless pieces of information such as this:

    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues: https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en
    Juergen Graf states:

    “Holocaust Controversies had all the time they needed to write their “refutation.” They were assisted by a host of Holocaust historians they diligently enumerate in their introduction. It did not help them a bit. […] Since the exterminationist position with regards to these two topics [gas chambers and eyewitnesses] is hopeless from the beginning, Myers had myriads of opportunities to make a fool of himself, and he missed not a single one of them. […]

    However, the most preposterous chapters of the pamphlet are undoubtedly the two last ones, written by […] Roberto Muehlenkamp, who unsuccessfully tried to prove that during World War II the eternal laws of nature had to pause so that the evil Nazis could carry out their massacre in chemical slaughterhouses and get rid of the bodies without significant use of fuel. [Muehlenkamp] knew exactly that Mattogno, who has an encyclopedic knowledge of all problems related to cremation, would react to his challenge and make mincemeat of his chapters, to use Romanov’s poetic formulation for the last time. Is Muehlenkamp perhaps a masochist? Does he relish the role of the circus clown who is pelted with eggs to the roaring laughter of the audience? Now he has egg all over his face. I do not feel a bit sorry for him because he asked for it.”

    You laughably try another impossible claim that Jew remains were ‘grilled’ to hide the evidence, as if such a preposterous procedure would make human remain just disappear, which it would not.

    And of course you dodge the claim that such cremated remains are claimed to have been reburied in the very same alleged mass graves that they had allegedly been exhumed from:

    The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, WERE REBURIED IN THE SAME GRAVES.”
    – Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

    And if you can convince some sucker here to believe your BS about making remains from the Reinhardt camps magically disappear, then why do we see this from two alleged immense mass graves at two of the allged Reinhardt “exterimation” sites? LOL

    [MORE]

    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.

    and:
    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    Then you move to the even more bizarre & impossible claim that Germans put Jew remains into bone grinding machines (your pictured cement mixer, LOL), and scattered the ground up remains and, voila, all magically disappeared.

    But wait!! That contradicts the other claim, as stated within the fake ‘Holocaust by Bullets’ narrative, that the previously claimed disappeared remains are indeed to be found in mass graves in known locations. LOL
    There are no immense human remains to be found in the ‘Holocaust by Bullets’, claimed mass graves or at the alleged “extermination camps”. Yet they are claimed to be there.

    ‘O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive’.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1739. Wally says:
    @Miggle

    said:
    ” The earliest shown, dated Oct 31, 1867, merely contains a sentence commencing, “There are 6,000,000 Jews in the world …”.”

    Actually, I’ve traced it as far back as 1823 & counting.

    Jews have been pushing their ‘6,000,000’ lie since at least 1823:

    6 MILLION?


    and:
    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com

  1740. Brewer says:

    To those who insist that bodies can be eliminated by burning on pyres of wood I suggest taking a look at the the remains of victims of the Dresden firebombing where a deliberate firestorm was created with the assistance of 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=firebombing+Dresden+bodies&t=canonical&atb=v54-1__&iax=images&ia=images

    I have read “eyewitness” accounts of forests being felled to feed the pyres. Apart from the fact that there is no evidence of felled forests, anyone with a wood stove can tell you that green wood won’t burn.
    Its a crock.

  1741. @Ron Unz

    Sure thing. I’ll try my hand at the first in this series and see how much work it is. Even if that’s all I do, it will at least lead people here to read the rest.

  1742. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “He was somewhat inaccurate but you’re being pedantic. The Soviets were clearly knocking on the door at that stage. Are you sure you aren’t conflating Poland’s pre- and post-war borders?”

    In March 1944 Soviets already controlled Ukraine, the pre-war Eastern Poland.
    https://omniatlas.com/maps/europe/19440620/

    Of course utu knows it, he just got irritated by the fact that Nazis kept Jewish hair in Auschwitz and I proposed an explanation for it. (One should always look at the strange things, keeping hair without any good purpose is strange. In the JFK case it was strange that the MC rifle had a defective sight, and this strange thing lead us to rejecting TSBD as the sniper’s nest and to confirming that the real sniper’s nest was the Dal-Tex building. Strange things are really useful for solving problems, but utu got fed up, happens.)

    • Replies: @utu
  1743. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    Since of course it wasn’t a transit camp (since there was nowhere to transit the Jews and the deniers cannot name a single Jew so transited even for 1000$ per name http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/07/challenge-to-supporters-of-revisionist.html ) what was your point again?

    I might have won that money…

    Heinz Rosenberg

    Archived link: http://archive.is/zRibj#selection-6949.0-7185.23

    Interview with Henry Robertson

    A: My name is Heinz Rosenberg. I was born September 15, 1921 in Gottingen, Germany.
    […]

    “So we had to undress. The little thing we had, here, here, here. Nothing. We were searched from top to bottom. Then we went into a shower room. We didn’t know what it was. And we got out and then we came to a room where they gave us each one a new uniform and wooden shoes or something like this and then they said you will stay here and you will be transported to Deshov. So the kapos said to us, that kapos, you are the first group that came in and goes out of here alive. So we still didn’t know what Treblinka was. I never heard about Treblinka before, you know. But we heard the smell and he said this is a death factory. But you know, even getting from the ghetto in Minsk, even seeing everything, we didn’t know what a death factory was, you know. We didn’t know, we didn’t know. So in the evening they put us back on a cattle car to Puchine which wasn’t too far away. Because the next morning we got there. In Puchine was a work camp, a concentration work camp, a very small camp. And we worked for the Heinkel factory. This was taken over by the, this used to be Polish airplane factory, taken over by the Germans and we got there was a small camp and this camp was, there were about 250 Polish Jews and women there.” – https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/RG-50.233.0111_trs_en.pdf

    Just donate the money to a charity of your choice.

    Thanks!

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1744. BobBob says:

    Listen to David Cole. He’s been targeted by the Jews for stating there are so many inconsistencies. He is Jewish & changed his name & recently resurfaced because his ex-girlfriend gave up his real identity.

    He was on Montel’s show with a survivor. The survivor states his brother was killed. Later a man called into the show to stay the survivor looks just like his landlord. Turns out it was his brother. So he was lied to. They used their own again to further the lie.

    Of course they could have announced this to the people – your family members may be alive & you were lied to. But of course, they didn’t.

    It makes me wonder if this was done with his wife & child.

  1745. Miggle says:
    @Miggle

    Or at least, the incessant fussing over crimes long past by people long dead, crimes the Gentiles are alleged to committed many decades ago when the Jews themselves are responsible for something worse: these mentions are only worthy of contempt. It’s time for them to stop being contemptible.

  1746. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Here is the audio interview with Heinz Rosenberg. He starts talking about Treblinka at 1 h 15 min into the interview:

    Oral history interview with Henry Robertson

    https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn509193

    “Henry Roberston (né Heinz Rosenberg), born September 15, 1921, in Gottingen, Germany, describes his prewar life in Germany; the devastation that occurred during Kristallnacht; his brother’s transport to Sachsenhausen; his family’s deportation in November 1941 to the Minsk ghetto; the liquidation of the Minsk ghetto and his last time seeing his wife and parents; his transfer to a series of camps, including Treblinka, Plaszow, Wielicza, Flossenbürg, Sachsenhausen, Bergen-Belsen, and Bremen from which he was liberated on April 15, 1945; numerous postwar ailments from which he suffered; his transport to Sweden to recuperate; and his immigration to the United States in 1949.”

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  1747. @Anon

    ‘…One of the reasons why Holocaust Denial is illegal is that we in the cognitive elite fear where this kind of discussion could go if led by easily-deceived simpletons. It’s not that we can’t accept a lower figure for the Holocaust, it’s that low IQ sheep might use the argument as an excuse to do something horrible. Thus, the six million figure is accepted without question. Sure, it could be 3 million or maybe just 1.5 million, but that’s not the point. The point is that sheep don’t get to have a stage to dismiss the entire thing out of hand and call for another one while they are at it. If the average human IQ were 120, perhaps things would be different. But in a society where the global mean IQ is in the low-to-mid 80s, that is not a possibility.’

    This essentially would be just a special case of the general argument against human freedom. You might as well ban reading on the grounds that it could lead some to question religion.

    • Replies: @fnn
  1748. Anon[538] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miggle

    Very amusing and I’ll take it as having enough truth to make it worth following up but you do try to get in the 6,000,000 at the end just by sleight of hand while we don’t notice that it doesn’t have any proper connections made to other actu ask or supposed facts. But you have got me intrigued to know more about Jewish Hellenism. I suspect a lot of them became Christians and, later, as sheer pragmatism, whatever it took under the Muslim rulers.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  1749. As long as we’re questioning the six million figure, how about the possibility that it’s too low?

    After all, in Ordinary Men, the Order Police battalion spends a good deal of its time combing the woods for fugitive Jews. Presumably some evaded capture — but died of exposure and hunger later. I imagine whole villages might have fled into the woods — only for most of the fugitives to perish in this way. These deaths would all go uncounted.

    Then there would be the independent killings by local Lithuanians, Poles, etc. Many of those must have gone completely undocumented.

    Finally, at least one of the Einsatzgruppen initially took its instructions to shoot the men but drive the women and children into the swamps literally. Obviously, lots of those driven off into the marshes would have died, but never would have been counted.

    Then there would be some amount of volunteerism by Wehrmacht units and all the various auxiliary units the Germans formed. Obviously, quite uncountable, but no doubt it happened. The unit comes into the village — and here are some of those Jews! Now, what is it we are supposed to do? In at least some cases, they’d be killed, and at most there would be some reference in the battalion diary, never looked at and burned at some point in the retreat in 1944.

    Finally, yes, the Soviets evacuated many Jews — but to where? If, say, they were parked in some town in the Kuban, the locals would associate them with the hated Soviets. Come 1942 and the arrival of the Germans…

    So heck — why should six million be the upper limit? Seven million seems perfectly plausible to me.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @JackOH
  1750. Based on what I know, and my experience with human nature and the usual course of historical events, I think there are good arguments for any figure between about four million and about seven million. To go much above or below those limits starts to drift into the distinctly unlikely.

  1751. @Genrick Yagoda

    It’s a crude comparison but you have clearly never been to a garden barbecue. If you had you would have observed fat dripping down and serving as fuel. It is something that can be observed in the real world. As far as bodies “self combusting” this happens in houses with elderly people living alone and normally in winter in houses without central heating. They are in a room with windows and doors closed and they have a lot of clothing on to keep warm. Fall asleep cigarette starts fire, the smoke kills them but the fire is contained by the restricted oxygen. Over many hours they burn slowly like candles with Evan the bones being destroyed. It’s very rare but it happens. Dehydrate a body and it can burn. The issue is time. It’s all about the alleged number of bodies that were destroyed in a specific time frame.
    400,000 bodies destroyed in just 2 months at austwitz? Not possible. Less than that? Possible.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1752. Heros says:
    @anonymous

    ” If the master race “have a plan to eliminate white Christians from the planet and from history ”, who is going to be their slaves ?”

    If you spent just a little time reading the many comments about the Kalergi plan, or the Protocols, or even the Talmud, you would know the answer. You are deflecting and being deliberately obtuse, in a very judaic fashion.

    “Most goyim(in the western world anyway) are very “happy” with their lives as slaves.”

    Spoken like a true racial supremacist not-a-jew jew.

    ““So to me it is quite simple, all GERMANS are GERMANS until they actively accept and at apologize for their forefathers grievous crimes and transgressions against Europeans over the centuries.””

    This is exactly what the holohoax is about! Jews are now claiming the holohoax suffering is genetic and will be demanding reparatiopns from ALL GERMANS forever. Once again, you are deflecting and obfuscating like a jew.

    “Otterboy, Gilad, Ron didn’t abandon the cult. The only way they wouldn’t be jew anymore is for them to kill as many jews as possible and then they should commit suicide”

    Once again, you are projecting jew-style racial hatred back onto the goyim you so clearly scorn. I have stated many times before, there are jews that I respect: Makow, Perloff and Brother Nathaneal to mention a few. And no, I do not think they should commit suicide. What I want is for jews to stop evading, obfuscating, deflecting and lying. It is clear that no jews commenting on these AP threads are ready to step up to the plate.

    As far as Otterboy goes, if he is so willfully ignorant about the goals clearly laid out in the Kalergy plan and the Protocols, then he certainly hasn’t escape from judaic hell. He remains a jew trying to hide from his own shadow.

    Someone used the phrase “Talmudist” above. I think it is a good term and I like it, almost as much as “homosexualist”. You don’t have to be queer to be a homosexualist and you don’t have to have jewish parents to be a Talmudist.

  1753. Otterboy says:
    @Anon

    Good points. But even if we leave out the whole idea of controlled demolition and all the stuff surrounding wt7, which I can be prepared to do, I still firmly believe that the event was somehow allowed to happen. Real planes, real jihadis flying them and they got a much bigger result than they dreamed about; both buildings collapsing and a third that wasn’t hit, also collapsing.

    There are a huge number of coincidences that happened on that day which points to a deliberate plan of knowing about the plan but allowing it to happen.

    This is not the thread to get into all of those details but if Ron Unz decides to write an article on this it might be a good forum to explore those other possibilities.

    The ‘allowed to happen’ theory has never been thoroughly debated because of all the contraversy about controlled demolition or not. That has sucked up the vast majority of the threads over the last 17 years

    Best wishes

  1754. @refl

    That this Hanfstaengl educated etc Hitler, never heard of before.
    But I’m beginning to wonder if anyone here knows anything about Germany from the 1918 ceasefire until, say 1936, when Hitler’s power had made it possible for Schacht to resurrect Germany economically.
    To begin with, who knows about the 900.000 hunger deaths since the cease fire until the Weimar Republic signed the Versailles Diktat ?
    GB continued the blockade, conditions were so bad in Germany that British occupation soldiers began to rebel.

    I’m quite willing to describe what went on in Germany from the ceasefire in 1918, until 1938, what Germans still alive in the eighties, interviewed, those who voted for Hitler at the time, saw as their happiest year.
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    Wahlen = voted

    But it will not be short, and I do not want to see my effort wasted in moderation.

  1755. Robjil says:
    @peterAUS

    The denial laws are based on Holocaustianity, the religion imposed on humanity after WW2. Denial laws all push the five year imprisonment game. Five years, why so long? Judaic gematria, spiritual interpretation of numbers, is the reason for it. Five is the Judaic number for protection, symbolized by the Hamsa, the talismanic hand. Their are five books of Moses, five divisions to the Pslams and the mystical texts ( Kabbala, Talmud) are often divided in five. The five years game is stated within the goal of the 911 false flag. Wesley Clark saw a memo that stated that “Seven nations must be destroyed in five years for the 911 false flag”. It hasn’t been fully completed in five years. Iran is the only one not yet attacked. Yet the five year Judaic gematria concept was implanted within the goal. It has nothing to do with cruel clever high IQ people doing any good for humanity. It has to do with cruel clever high IQ 500 BC fanatics who want to keep a firm, tight grip on all of humanity, in their hands, in their hands, like they are Gods of this tiny planet.

  1756. @Yellowford

    I provided a link previously to the courtroom testimony of Ivan lagache at the Zundel trial, who ran North America’s largest (therefore hottest) crematoria. His testimony does in fact point out that at some point the body fat becomes “fuel” and refers to it this way in his testimony.

    However, that is after the 70% water that the human body is composed of is burned off by external heat sources. Human bodies do not burn like Yule Logs….excepting Jewish corpses during WWII when “the holocaust” fantasy is at stake.

    • Replies: @Yellowford
  1757. j2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    “So heck — why should six million be the upper limit? Seven million seems perfectly plausible to me.”

    They must have been born before dying. I do not think there were enough for 7 million to die and 4.4 million to survive.

    The long time average birth rate for Ashkenazi Jews has been 1.4% per year. It gives the doubling time of 50 years. In a decade the population grows by 15%. I guess we can more or less accept that in 1850 the Jewish population of the world was 6 million, of whom 3 million were Ashkenazi. This high birth rate has been the ultimate reason for all Ashkenazi trouble with non-Jews.

    Then it grows as

    Year total
    1850 3
    1880 4.5
    1890 5.2
    1900 6
    1910 6,9
    1920 7.9
    1930 9.1
    1940 10.5
    1950 12 – victims of Holocaust

    There is, how ever poor it may be, Jewish population data from the USA
    1880

    Year total USA Other
    1880 4.5 0.25 4.3
    1890 5.2 0.45 4.75
    1900 6 1 5
    1910 6,9 1.8 5.1
    1920 7.9 3.45 4.45
    1930 9.1 4.3 4.8
    1940 10.5 4.8 5.7
    1950 12 5 7-victims=4.4

    The USA population should have grown from 1940 to 1950 to 5.7 million, but maybe 700,000 emigrated to Israel. If the birth rate stayed at 1.4%, and as the USA population grew by immigration, there hardly is any possible way how 7 million could have died in Europe. The European figure 5.7 million can be a low figure, because there were intermarriages and they bring more people to the population, but I do not think it can be higher than 7.9 million. There were 4.4 million survivors, so 3.5 million is about maximum. In the defamation video posted by Otterboy Abe Foxman of ADL seems to say 3 million. (A general says 1.5 million Jews died in Auschwitz, Foxman comments, out of 3 million.) Notice that this 15% in a decade increase is probably the reason some denialists think there were only 6 million Jews in Europe in 1939, but as said, they did intermarry in Communistic countries to some extent.

  1758. JackOH says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin, I’ve speculated as a sort of thought experiment on what the consequences would be if the actual number of Jews deliberately killed because they were Jews turned out to be zero. (For example, start by excluding Jewish combat deaths, civilian Jews killed in bombardments, Jews lawfully executed for criminal and partisan activities, and so on.)

    My guess is The Holocaust (the one that didn’t occur according to my speculation) would remain as Israel’s foundational myth, would stick with Jews worldwide as a sort of political touchstone for thinking about themselves, Congressmen would still return calls from AIPAC, and criticism of The Holocaust narrative would still be thought of as unsavory, anti-Semitic, and, I guess in some countries, a criminal offense. Politics is occasionally a rhetorical flim-flam (cf. the Gulf of Tonkin incident) intended to prod action. The Holocaust narrative did and continues to do just that.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1759. @Genrick Yagoda

    We are not talking about one body though. In cremation there are three phases. Burning, dehydration and then incineration. Initially the body starts to burn because of the fatty tissue. Then it stops because the fat has burned and there is too much water content in the rest of the body. At this stage a new body would be added to the grill. It goes through the initial burning phase and adds more fat to the fire which aids in the dehydration phase for the first body. This process goes on and on. Eventually the first body will be dehydrated enough to burn and becomes more fuel for the fire. It takes many hours for each body to be burned completely but they continually fuel the process with more bodies. It is more fuel efficient and in the long term faster than conventional cremation.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1760. j2 says:
    @Miggle

    “This article includes a collection of more than 30 images of New York Times news articles into the 19th century related to Jews and mentioning the number 6,000,000. One example from 1918 asking for a billion dollars to rebuild post-war Jewry starts with the words “Six million souls need help.” Others have it that there are 6,000,000 Jews in Russia, one from 1914 is concerned with the plight of 6,000,000 Jews within the war zone, and more and more of that. The earliest shown, dated Oct 31, 1867, merely contains a sentence commencing, “There are 6,000,000 Jews in the world …”.”

    I want to point out that this argument is not so strong as it feels like. Watching e.g. the vide Wally posted, you get the impression that 6 million is a myth and an obsession. Yet, it usually was a rather correct number. Look at the following table of the Ashkenazi Jewish population:

    Year total USA Other
    1850 3 0 3
    1880 4.5 0.25 4.3
    1890 5.2 0.45 4.75
    1900 6 1 5
    1910 6,9 1.8 5.1
    1920 7.9 3.45 4.45
    1930 9.1 4.3 4.8
    1940 10.5 4.8 5.7 (but intermarriages may have risen this up to 7.9)
    1950 12 5 7-victims=4.4, known survivors of European Jews

    Non-Ashkenazi Jews, all the time 3 million.

    In 1850 there were 3M Ashkenazi and 3M other, total was 6M, but they were not threatened.
    In 1900 Ashkenazi population was 6M. There were Russian pogroms. In Russia there were 5M.
    In 1939 one could talk about 6M European Jews, though the number was believed to be 9M and after German+Austrian Jews escaped it actually was 7.9M. Zionism wanted to present Jews as persecuted and starving, but with 1.4% population growth many probably were starving in Russia. It is not this figure 6M, but more like the terms holocaust and extermination that point to the exodus myth. Also, as 6 million is 2/3 of 9 million, the 6 million Holocaust victims probably is from a prophecy. Still, not every time 6M appears it is connected with any myth. Many times it was the best estimate.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  1761. @Anon

    A corpse can be induced to burn quite nicely with just the fat on the body and a modicum of oxygen. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what he’s talking about. In fact, this explains “spontaneous human combustion” quite nicely: old people drop a cigarette on themselves, and, under certain conditions, they burn completely to ash.

    ROFLMAO the spontaneously combusting Jews of Treblinka did the Nazis gas them with Methane. But the fact that you have to come up with such hare brained nonsense is an implicit admission that the standard narrative around Treblinka has collapsed. The spontaneously combusting Jews of Treblinka – thanks for the laugh.

  1762. utu says:
    @j2

    I linked May 1944 map. Most of Poland (Pre WWII borders) was not liberated yet. Here are front lines from 4-15 till 7-1 when the front begins to move again.

    Your map is no good.

    You can believe in your mumbo jumbo hairs and other symbology from Torah or Bhagavad Gita. I do not care. But when you try to make factual statements adhere to some standards do some checking before posting some shitty map.

    • Replies: @j2
  1763. @Genrick Yagoda

    Thanks for the link from it

    Lagacé stated that this claim was “preposterous” and “beyond the realm of reality.” To claim that 46 retorts could cremate over 4,400 bodies in a day was “ludicrous.” Based on his own experience, Lagacé testified that it would only have been possible to cremate a maximum of 184 bodies a day at Birkenau.

    Shocking narrative collapse

    But not to worry the Jewish geniuses on this thread have assured us that Jews can be used as fuel to light other Jews just light up one jew and the chain reaction will consume the rest.

  1764. Robjil says:
    @Otterboy

    Yes, why was it allowed to happen is the best way to solve 911. 911 is the biggest event of our time. The numerous Judaic/Israeli connections to it should be allowed to be freely examined without fear. Why can’t we freely examine this? The Big H is the big shield used to intimidate us from doing so. This shield stops us from studying any Judaic bad deed in history. The Big H needs to be deflated and studied freely without barriers to free humanity.
    The 911 Judaic gematria connections are quite clear. What does eleven represent in Judaic gematria? The Kabbalist’s Sefirot, Tree of Life, is a structure of ten emanations from God. Eleven, represents destructive excess, human ego attempting to add one more emanation to the Divine system. It signifies evil and a curse. The Sefer Tetzirah, the Book of Creation, the earliest book of Jewish mysticism, talks about nine and eleven being evil numbers compared to ten – “ten and not eleven; ten and not nine”. The Judaic sages said “whoever adds or detracts” signifies evil and curse. 9/11 fits this to the tee. Ten the holy number of creation is in the middle.

  1765. Miggle says:
    @Anon

    Muslim rulers are very much a side issue as relating to the Jewish diaspora, particularly in the early Jewish Dark Age, 200–600 AD, and particularly as concerns the central Roman Empire. Muslim rule is later significant in Syria and Palestine, where over several generations the Arameans and the Hebrews gradually converted, started to call themselves Arabs, and grew close to the ruling elite, and we have Rabbi Saadia Gaon lamenting the rate at which the Jews of Palestine are converting to Islam. But that is off the subject, and much later.

    You sound like a Wikipedia addict. Don’t believe everything you read there on Judaism or Zionism. Yes, they try to explain the mysterious disappearance of millions by vaguely saying the Hellenistic Jews must have converted to Christianity, having first concocted the notion that the number of them was very small and largely Eastern-Mediterranean.

    In reality the number was huge. I have quoted Hans Lietzmann quoting early sources on the hugeness of the number. It was already huge around 200 BC, hence the Septuagint. It was already huge when the Jews were persecuting the Christians, and Hellenistic Jews led the persecution. To say that very soon after, a little later than AD 200, when the rabbis had won totalitarian powers and the Jewish Dark Age had suddenly descended, to say that then, the largest group of Jews worldwide suddenly all converted to Christianity and simply disappeared, is absurd.

    A slight sleight of hand, perhaps. It doesn’t have clear connections, but the Jews suppressed and deceptively re-wrote Jewish history, as I pointed out quoting Israel Shahak. And there is that obsession with the number 6,000,000 going back, perhaps, many centuries, fitting in well with a mysterious disappearance of millions of Jews over a relatively brief period, many centuries ago.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1766. Otterboy says:
    @Anon

    “One of the reasons why Holocaust Denial is illegal is that we in the cognitive elite fear where this kind of discussion could go if led by easily-deceived simpletons.”

    Yes, Big Brother, sir. Understood. Yes, mustn’t let them stupid simpletons think at all. Well I suppose that once artificial intelligence/robots really take off, I guess you can dispose of those simpletons once and for all. That way they’ll never bother you or your fellow ‘cognitive elites’ ever again.

    • Replies: @j2
  1767. Miggle says:
    @j2

    That sounds like a lot of research. I won’t attempt to check it all. But perhaps you are only saying there were certain numbers of Jews, as indeed there were, but then the number 6 million seems to emerge as an estimate when the number is often rather different. I don’t understand how the 6 million “probably is from a prophesy” without there being any such obsession. But we may not be in strong disagreement.

    • Replies: @j2
  1768. j2 says:
    @utu

    “You can believe in your mumbo jumbo hairs and other symbology from Torah or Bhagavad Gita. I do not care. But when you try to make factual statements adhere to some standards do some checking before posting some shitty map.”

    I noticed earlier that somebody (more knowledgeable than me) wrote that utu is a troll. I did not notice at that time, but after a while the verbally talented use of language reveals trolls. It is pretty much irrelevant where Soviets exactly were at that time, Eichmann made his offer, it was not accepted, it could have saved 290,000 Jews, but it would have costed Jews 10,000 trucks, that is money. So, naturally, they rejected the offer. Despite of that, 410,000 Jews survived concentration camps and were not murdered. 200,000 Hungarian Jews very possibly were left to Auschwitz to Soviets and 140,000 survived camps in the 410,000 by Yad Vashem figures. So, what exactly was your point? Why do you people necessarily want to have so many Jews murdered when the evidence points elsewhere? I watched Otterboy’s video of defamation. It really is a cult, a death cult. utu-troll, get out of the cult if you still can.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  1769. j2 says:
    @Otterboy

    Otterboy, thanks for posting the defamation video and for your first post also. Worth watching and reading.

  1770. j2 says:
    @Miggle

    “But we may not be in strong disagreement.”

    We are not in any disagreement. I only wanted to mention that when people use the 6 million appearing all the time, they should remember that actually the real number was close to 6M quite often, depending on how one counts. Not to make the claim in a way that is not convincing. Arguments should be convincing (for us, that is the same as correct) if they are used.

    It was an obsession. I think the number was selected around 1850 when the Jewish world population was 6M. ´Pre-Zionism started around 1840. It had the goal of creating Israel. Israel is what is created at the end of the times by Messiah. Messiah was (Shabbatai Zvi) but he was discarded. So, enough end of the time prophecies had to be fulfilled for rabbis. I mean I think so, some people, like utu, think it is not so.

  1771. Anonymous [AKA "DaveJazzy184"] says:
    @Wally

    I suppose you believe that all the post-war films and photos of human skeletons and flesh-less corpses in the camps were faked, right? Get real.

    • Replies: @HdC
    , @Wally
    , @annamaria
  1772. MrPaul50 says:
    @Wally

    I’ll reply to just one of your assertions: Special Treatment. In fact, there is plenty of proof that it meant extermination. All you have to do is look it up at Wikipedia:

    Where the Nazis had to document murder, Sonderbehandlung [Special Treatment] was one of a number of euphemisms used. The Action T4 doctors used “desinfiziert” (disinfected) to document the gassing of mentally ill and handicapped individuals.[5] The actual plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe was called “Die Endlösung der Judenfrage” (Final Solution to the Jewish Question). Other words to describe extermination operations included:

    “Evakuierung” (evacuation)
    “Aussiedlung” (expulsion)
    “Umsiedlung” (resettlement)
    “Auflockerung” (thinning out – as in the removal of inhabitants from a ghetto)[6]
    “Befriedungsaktion” (pacification)[6]
    “Ausserordentliche Befriedungsaktion” or “A.B. Aktion” (special pacification)[6]
    “Abwanderung” (having-been-migrated)[6]
    “Säuberung” (cleansing)[6]
    “Sicherheitspolizeilich durchgearbeitet” (directed or worked through in a manner in accordance with the Sicherheitsdienst)[6]

    But I’m sure you’ll respond that Wikipedia is run by Jews, so nothing on the site can be believed.

  1773. crimson2 says:
    @Hegwood

    Strange, that’s not your eyewitness said happened at Treblinka. Are you saying you were there and this is what you saw.

    I point out your lies and these impotent sentences are your best response? lol, you guys are worse at this than I imagined.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1774. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @MrPaul50

    Didn’t you know that Wally was one of the Preferred Bidders for the Israeli government’s Wikipedia (Special Treatment) contract? With typical Jewish ingenuity the Israeli government saw how Wikipedia editing could be a job creation scheme for their under 85 IQ population and Wally had the inside running when word got round that he had long shown empathy for, not to say affinity with, the under 85s.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1775. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “The problem can be seen as fundamentally one of dishonesty — or partial dishonesty.”

    Since it has been shown here that you and those like you cannot present proof for your claims of ‘millions of murdered Jews”, I suggest that it is you / they who are being dishonest.

    You might enjoy this debunking of another fake, non-existent ‘holocaust’ grave:

    ‘Abiding by fake Jewish law’ in Christian Poland, researchers claim forgotten Holocaust graves without digging: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11987

    Another one bites the dust.

    recommended:
    The Big Excuse: ‘excavation & exhumation of Jews forbidden’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6817
    “Jewish Burial Law” as excuse: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8997

    http://www.codoh.com

  1776. crimson2 says:
    @Miggle

    It might be a mere selection from a larger number of articles with other estimated numbers.

    That’s exactly what the creator of that very stupid meme did. Apparently someone once estimated the number of Jews in Russia as six million, and most of those newspaper articles simply mention this number. But others mention five million or three million.

    It’s unbelievably stupid that people would argue that this meme proves anything, let alone to do so without even looking to see what population estimates were or if there were other numbers discussed.

    Here you can see many news articles with three million or five million.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#firstholocaust

    But did you guys really think you would overthrow the decades of work by actual historians with a picture full of headlines? One of the articles is about Christians being killed for fuck’s sake.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1777. crimson2 says:

    I suggest that all Holocaust-deniers deserve a little Special Treatment.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1778. @MrPaul50

    You do have to use some caution with Wikipedia as regards controversial topics. As far as final solution to the Jewish question is concerned there is no dispute that from 1933 to 1941 it actually meant expulsion from Germany. All historians agree on that. If its meaning changed after that we don’t know. There is certainly no proof (wannsee document is misrepresented). As far as euthemisms is concerned, didn’t this cause confusion amongst the Germans? What word did they use for evacuation when they actually intended evacuation?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1779. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miggle

    It occurs to me that a lot of Heelenised Jews would have had mixed feelings about the destruction of Jerusalem and the next century’s follow up with the ginishing youches at Masada. Imagine if the Popes had finally been put out of business (well, for a few hundred years anywayy) and the Vatican 1530. What would have happened to Western Christianity? Would we just know Roman Catholics today as removalists who got th erir hands on the Vatican during one of Italy’s troubled times of the last 200 years? I doubt if those done in by the Romans would have had much sentimental appeal to Greek speaking – and reading – Jews around the Roman world.

  1780. HdC says:
    @Anonymous

    No, I certainly do not think they were faked, because there were enough bodies and skeletons of German civilians at hand. Consider:

    The incessant firebombing of German cities, practically all cities with populations of 50,000 or more, were destroyed. (from discussions with Bomber Harris and his minions)

    Further, everything that moved on road or rails was bombed or machine gunned. (bragging by British and American bomber crews)

    Thus there was an ample supply of German corpses to fill that bill.

    But here is the REALLY beautiful part: An American pathologist examined over a thousand corpses and ruled that they practically all died of disease and/or malnutrition.

    He did not find one corpse that had died of gassing, be it carbon monoxide or Zyklon B.

  1781. @Yellowford

    Nice fantasy. Needs a Wendigo, though/

    Do you also believe that the diesel engine, an engine so safe that is licensed for use in underground mining in every nation that permit underground mining suddenly turned into the Diesel Of Death, and that 700,000 Jews took a whiff of the stuff and keeled over dead?

    Not one person has died of diesel soot since it’s invention before WWII, and not one person has died of diesel soot since WWII, and yet ignoramouses like you come up with all sorts of nonsenical ramblings defend how the Diesel of Death actually did kill 700,000 Jews who then vanished off the face of the earth in a flash of flames, like the Vampyres in the movie Blade.

    Is there no amount of preposterous whoppers you clowns are prepared to swallow?

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @Yellowford
  1782. @FKA Max

    Wait, so he is the 1 in 6M who actually didn’t get incinerated?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1783. Wally says:
    @MrPaul50

    LENGTHY, but important. Select ‘MORE’ if necesary

    – Indeed, as shown by Jews themselves and by this site, Wikipedia IS indeed,dominated by Zionists.
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    and:
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    According to your own citation, though the Germans never spoke of extermination, they were actually speaking of extermination. LOL
    The tired canard about ‘special treatment / sonderbehandlung’ is yesterday’s news. You’re in over your head on that and ALL that you posted

    From German Richard Korherr, who compiled the WWII ‘Korherr Report’, which is laughably, desperately trotted out as ‘holocaust’ proof:

    The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:

    “It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician…is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned.”

    Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler’s order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

    The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word “died” in this context.

    It was precisely the term “special treatment” (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.

    Dr. Richard Korherr
    Braunschweig

    It’s odd that ‘special treatment / sonderbehandlung’ can only mean ‘extermination’ according to the Believers, it could more properly be asssigned a positive meaning…to be given special medical treatment, sent to another location, resettled elsewhere.

    And as usual, the methods as to how these Jews were supposedly murdered are scientifically impossible. And there are no mass graves and human remains as claimed. It’s another ‘How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?’ argument.

    recommended:
    ‘Special Treatment’ in Auschwitz, Origin and Meaning of a Term, By Carlo Mattogno: https://codoh.com/library/document/1192/?lang=en

    The “Special Treatment” of Registered Auschwitz Inmates, By Carlo Mattogno : https://codoh.com/library/document/4449/?lang=en

    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=special+treatment

    Here are many examples which demonstrate it’s non-extermination meaning:

    Kaltenbrunner at Nuremberg: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/04-12-46.htm

    Hindenburg letter of 1933: http://www.cwporter.com/HINDENBURG.htm

    at the Cologne-Bonn airport, 2001, LOL: http://www.cwporter.com/scbonnairport.htm

    and: http://www.cwporter.com/specialaction.htm

    BTW, there is no proof for your discredited ‘murder of mentally ill / disabled’ under the T4 program, there was an euthanasia program as there is worldwide.

    There is no proof that “Final Solution” = extermination, none.

    “I owe my permission to submit the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question.
    – ‘Father of political Zionism’ Theodor Herzl, letter to the Czar, November 22, 1899.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1784. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Otterboy

    One more word as Frankfurter J. famously said before writing another 10,000.

    Yes Ron should bring his physicist’s capacity to calculate on the lay certainties one reads from UR’s furthers.

    “Allowed to happen” is perhaps ambiguous. The CIA seems to have allowed it to happen through incompetence. Israel may have allowed it to happen because, for example, it gave the running to Mossed and Mossad did the bare minimum in passing on what it knew to the US, or variations on that.

    Fair to say that no one anticipated the effects of the WTC attacks would cause collapse of the towers. (And of course it is hard to imagine a geopolitical reason for needing to go further than destroying the upper storeys and killing lots of people. That goes for all the possible plotters.).

    It is possible to imagine Israeli/Missed calculation being that 9/11 events were going to get the US more involved in the Muslim world to Israel’s advantage and that extra leverage could be obtained by pointing to the extremely carefully phrased and timed warnings Mossad gave – or, even more by not pointing to them publicly.

  1785. Apparently someone once estimated the number of Jews in Russia as six million, and most of those newspaper articles simply mention this number. But others mention five million or three million.

    WHERE DID THE MISSING THREE MILLION JEWS GO?

    • Replies: @Wally
  1786. @MrPaul50

    The final solution was deporting, after WWII, all jews to Madagaskar:
    Hans Jansen, ‘Der Madagaskar Plan, Die beabsichtigte Deportation der europäischen Juden nach Madagaskar’, München 1997
    In the meantime, work, thus ‘Arbeit macht frei’.

  1787. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yellowford

    Your errors of spelling and grammar make me wonder how far you have bothered to switch your brain on. Were there even Nazi or German government references to “the final solution” [Endlösung] of the Jewish question going back to 1933? I suspect you are waffling from your metaphorical armchair without a book at hand.

  1788. @Otterboy

    As the planes that were used on Sept 11 were not the four planes that disappeared, nothing was allowed to happen.
    This is best seen at the Pentagon, the damage there has nothing to do with a four engined passenger plane flying into the building.
    Pennsylvania, the same, no wreckage resembling Lockerby.
    But the coroner there solved the problem, the plane was or had been ‘atomised’ in mid air.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1789. @JackOH

    ‘Colin, I’ve speculated as a sort of thought experiment on what the consequences would be if the actual number of Jews deliberately killed because they were Jews turned out to be zero…

    My guess is The Holocaust (the one that didn’t occur according to my speculation) would remain as Israel’s foundational myth, would stick with Jews worldwide as a sort of political touchstone for thinking about themselves, Congressmen would still return calls from AIPAC, and criticism of The Holocaust narrative would still be thought of as unsavory, anti-Semitic, and, I guess in some countries, a criminal offense…

    Sure — but this does nothing to demonstrate that the Holocaust didn’t in fact occur.

    I could speculate that we could all live in a state of perfect anarchy, without police, courts, or governments of any kind. No currency, etc, etc.

    No doubt those currently employed as policemen, tax collectors, judges, army officers, etc would scream bloody murder — and would in fact conspire to force us all to continue as we are.

    That does nothing to prove that a state of perfect anarchy is practicable.

    Sure, people benefit from ‘the Holocaust,’ and sure, it’s been put to good use by the Zionists. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @JackOH
  1790. @Otterboy

    ‘…The ‘allowed to happen’ theory has never been thoroughly debated because of all the contraversy about controlled demolition or not. That has sucked up the vast majority of the threads over the last 17 years…’

    That’s actually my own best guess as to what occurred. It explains all the credible data.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1791. @Genrick Yagoda

    No I don’t believe a diesel engine was used at Treblinka. The obvious answer is that it was a petrol engine but that creates a new problem. Cause of death would be carbon monoxide poisoning and bodies would turn a pinkish hue. None of the witnesses report this. This is a legitimate revisionist criticism of the narrative.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @HdC
  1792. utu says:
    @j2

    It is pretty much irrelevant where exactly Soviets were at that time.

    It is relevant that’s why you were trying to lie about it and by posting invalid map while I posted already two or three times the maps of the Eastern Front. So now you are lying again.

    It is relevant because it is important to know what territory was still under German control in April-May 1944 when Eichmann had the talks with the Zionist about making the deal of swapping Jews for trucks and other goodies.

    It is relevant because Eichmann made an offer of one million Jews which may suggest that in April-May 1944 under German control there were at least one million Jews.

    Here are maps of the Eastrn Front. Two maps per month in 1944.
    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Atlas_of_the_World_Battle_Fronts_in_Semimonthly_Phases_to_August_15_1945

    The maps show that most of Poland was still under German control during the talks with the Zionists which implies that all important camps and ghettos where under German control in April-May 1944. Which implies that all Jews who were on this territory in 1942 or 1943 should still have been on that territory in 1944 if they were not killed. Which implies that since Eichmann made an offer of 1,000,000 Jews he did not have more Jews than one million under his control because the offer was meant to save Germany by prying off Western Allies from the USSR. I am sure that Himmler on whose behalf Eichmann conducted the talks with the Zionists would offer all the Jews in the Solar System if it could save Germany at this point. But he offered 1,000,000 only. Which implies that the 3 or 4 or more millions of Jews that were on this territory in 1941 or 1942 must have been dead in 1944.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  1793. j2 says:
    @MrPaul50

    I have never looked at this Special Treatment issue, I only calculated death tolls and deaths can very well include people, who were killed with whatever way, but as you use the Wikipedia, there is one issue that you maybe could clarify as I am a bit confused. In the Wikipedia entry for Action 14f13
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_14f13
    which you surely know is Sonderbehandlung 14f13, killing of concentration camp inmates not fit to work, there is a mention that
    “575 prisoners from Auschwitz were gassed at the Sonnenstein Euthanasia Centre” April 1941.
    Up to April 11, 1944 there seems to have been rules that a panel of doctors was selecting inmates to be gassed in euthanasia centers, later only mentally ill were sent there. The total death toll of this Action 14f13 is given as 15,000 and 20,000 people for the period ending in 1943. This is too low to show in demographic calculations of populations, so I have not needed it. It is just one cause of death, announced as disease.

    My question is, why inmates to be terminated were sent to euthanasia centers up to April 1944 if they could have been murdered in the camps? And is there any reason that such prisoners were both killed in the camp in large numbers and small numbers were sent to euthanasia centers. That seems illogical to me.

    In my opinion there may very well have been euthanasia centers in Operation Reinhardt camps which killed, maybe with gas, mentally ill and other similarly disabled prisoners. There are mass graves, though not so large to fit the official story, but some people did die in these camps, or at least were burned and buried.

    In my understanding, Sonderbehandlung 14f13 was indeed killing camp prisoners, but there were other Sonderbehandlung codes, which meant some other action, or am I totally mistaken?

    • Replies: @Wally
  1794. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    No false, desperate strawman arguments, please. No one says that except you.

    Is that your best shot? LOL

    Typhus was / is a deadly disease, it raged during WWII and the German sites were prime examples
    Not a single autopsy ever revealed that any of those “human skeletons” were gassed, not a one. Oops!
    The disease problem was compounded by the Allies illegal strafing and bombing of civilian medical & food supplies into the German sites.

    US Civil War photo:
    If you have proof for ‘exterminations’, then try to present it and learn.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1795. Wally says:
    @Yellowford

    “Believe’ what you want, but that IS the claim within the ‘holocaust’ narrative for Treblinka and all the other Reinhardt sites..

    I recommend you see my comment #1695 in this thread and read the specific citations of the diesel narrative, as bogus as it is.

    Indeed, all such claims of ‘Nazi gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1796. Otterboy says:
    @MrPaul50

    “What I do believe is that two to three million Jews were killed by the Nazis, whatever the means. I believe some gassings took place, but not on the ’round-the-clock scale imagined by supporters of the five or six million figure. Intentional starvation and disease may have been the major causes of death; it doesn’t really matter. I also believe that many “deniers” are simply anti-Jew, and have no interest in historical truth — and that just as many “pro-Holocaust” scholars are entrenched in their positions, come what may.

    Even two million (or a tenth of that) killed by the Nazis was a horrific, criminal act. Let’s just get to the most accurate number possible and move on. By the way, I’m Jewish.”

    Sensible and reasonable comment. Many thanks

    As a former jew I was obviously a total believer in the early days. But then I was pointed to the Butz book, physically went to the camps, couldn’t really debunk Butz. Later on after more reading came to a similar conclusion to you. I don’t believe the standard narrative but I’m also not in Wally’s camp.

    You say;

    “Let’s just get to the most accurate number possible and move on”

    How? Here in the UK it’s still legal to discuss but if you try and open a public discussion you will be attacked (including physically) and financially ruined. If you jump over the channel into France you’ll be arrested, fined and imprisoned. Same with a whole load of other countries

    Gilad Atzmon is now known as a vitriolic and obscene holocaust denier but he’s never denied the holocaust. I challenge anyone to show me anything he’s written that denies the holocaust. All he’s done is openly ask a couple of questions about what happened and stated it should not be censored due to the principle of free speech

    This happens to anyone and everyone who even tries to open a debate about it. For example, a pro Palestinian Israeli called Miko Peled was giving a talk in London and upon answering a question said “we need to discuss everything, including the holocaust”. That was enough to bring a very hostile crowd to the venue on the next day and they would have physically beaten him if they got the chance. He’s now banned from speaking in most venues simply because he said the holocaust should be discussed. You cannot underestimate the level of organised Jewish power in the UK. Most MP’s belong to “friends of Israel” club and work closely with these Jewish groups who are funded by the Israeli government

    Most of my family, including the younger ones, still believe the myths about the soap and lampshades. When I used to try and tell them that these stories were definitely fake and admitted by the holocaust authorities, they still accused me of being a denier. You can’t even get that far. It has to be 6m+, soap and lampshades

    When I first commented on this article I was immediately attacked by another commenter who called me a nazi, said that I would really like to kill a Jew if I could get away with it and how he’d like to ‘shut me up by other means’

    So this is what you’re up against. Any mention of the holocaust except to wholeheartedly agree is verboten! If you ask Jews if they agree with these two statements, you will that the vast majority will:

    -The holocaust was the worst human tragedy in history

    – The Jews have suffered more than any other group of people in the history of the world

    The word ‘holocaust’ should be used to describe the total horrors of ww2 (and ww1 for that matter). Not just to describe what happened to one particular group who have somehow been able to claim the primacy of human suffering and the majority of the narrative of ww2 which has been consumed by it. Up to 60m died in ww2 and many millions in horrific circumstances. Yet even non Jewish kids I speak to here in London who study history at school know very little about ww2 but they know about the holocaust and Anne Frank’s Diary

    Then we can get into how organised Jewish power weaponises the holocaust continually to shield them and their beloved Israel from justified criticism. The holocaust was weaponised here in the UK recently to force the Labour Party to adopt all the new and ridiculous definitions of anti semitism, half of which protect Israel from any criticism. Due to the immense pressure and endless smears of antisemitism they finally agreed to adopt those definitions in full. Now you’ll be immediately expelled from the labour party if you use the term ‘zionist’. Even if you refer to Israel as the ‘zionist entity’, you’re out. It won’t be long before I’m also expelled

    And immediately after their victory these self appointed Jewish groups have now referred a whole bunch of Labour supporters and activists to the police to be prosecuted for ‘hate crimes’ for using terms like ‘rabid zionist’

    Yes, you can’t make this up. And this is leading to the biggest increase in real antisemitism I’ve ever seen. People can see exactly what’s going on and are extremely angry about this. This seems to be a historical pattern. Unfortunately the repercussions are usually very disproportionate and we might be heading there again.

    So I can’t see any way of agreeing an accurate number. It’s never going to happen

    Best wishes

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @MrPaul50
  1797. HdC says:
    @Yellowford

    The corpses of those individuals poisoned by Zyklon B also exhibit a pinkish to reddish hue. This can be verified by perusing the appropriate textbook on pathology.

    And your observation that “None of the witnesses report this” applies here, too. As a matter of fact, when describing the appearance of supposedly gassed individuals the witnesses invariably stated the colours to be bluish-green-grey, or some variant thereof. Go figure.

    “Eyewitness testimony is worthless without supporting physical evidence.”

    • Replies: @Wally
  1798. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Anon[211] main contribution: “and sometimes nearby oxygen tank”

  1799. Wally says:
    @j2

    Try actually reading my comment #1818 which demolishes the absurd claims about ‘sonderbehandlung / special treatment’.

    The laughable claims about ‘action14fi3’ are simply impossible Zionist propaganda. See your controlled Zionist Wikipedia* citation shot to hell here:

    ‘Sonderbehandlung 14f13’ / latest big deal effort to combat “denial” is demolished: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6414
    and: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Action+14f13

    Please show us your claimed ‘code’ book for you claimed ‘code words’. LOL
    recommended:
    ‘code words’ / The Razor and the Ring, by John Weir : https://codoh.com/library/document/3008/?lang=en

    * It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  1800. annamaria says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Where are the collections of letters and diaries from the Jewish torturers of GULAG and secret police? Some of the worst Bolshevik criminals lived long and comfortable lives like one of the greatest mass murderers Lazar Kaganovich, of Holodomor fame

    • Replies: @Anon
  1801. Wally says:
    @HdC

    said:
    “The corpses of those individuals poisoned by Zyklon B also exhibit a pinkish to reddish hue. This can be verified by perusing the appropriate textbook on pathology.’

    There were no “individuals poisoned by Zyklon B” at German labor sites.
    I believe you meant to say ‘those poisoned by HCN (hydrogen cyanide)’, which was embedded in a clay-like substance, to become Zyklon-B.

    Friedrich Paul Berg has it wired: http://www.nazigassings.com/

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @HdC
  1802. phil says:
    @Anonymous

    While occupying a large part of the Western USSR, the Germans had more than 42,000 camps and ghettos. Impossible to trace all the possibilities. With so many camps and ghettos, one would only have to resettle 25 people per camp or ghetto to re-locate more than a million people.

    Or else, Himmler had the train records destroyed to cover up the fact that most people did not get out of the Reinhardt camps alive, and he also “re-settled” most of the remains. The shortened version of the Korherr Report (referring to European Jewry) says that, of the people who emigrated or who were “evacuated”, “only half of these, i.e. a quarter of the total [Jewish] European population of 1937, have been added to [“have flowed into”] the other continents.”!!

    This statement is interpreted by some people to mean that, since they did NOT add to the populations of other continents, about 2.5 million Jewish people must have already died by that time (late summer of 1942).

    This is essentially David Irving’s thesis. That there were two versions of the Korherr Report–one to fool Hitler (Himmler referred to “camouflage”) and one that spoke the truth.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
    , @phil
  1803. annamaria says:
    @Yellowford

    Could you coordinate you apologetic hypotheses with Anon[211] who believes that a “nearby oxygen tank” could sometimes be helpful for cremation?
    Why you indulge yourself in your ignorant rants on the technical details of cremation, but you hate, hate viscerally when the experts in physics, chemistry, and history approach the questions that are sensitive for holo-biz claims? You and your comrades in arms against the freedom of information and freedom of speech are the cogs in the mechanisms of the malicious Jewish power that hates the light of truth.

    • Replies: @Yellowford
  1804. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Sure — but this does nothing to demonstrate that the Holocaust didn’t in fact occur.”

    But the complete lack of proof that it did occur demonstrates that it did not occur.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1805. Otterboy says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Sounds really interesting. I’d love to find out about your research and thoughts on this, on a dedicated 911 thread

    (hint hint Mr Unz)

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1806. Wally says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Wow! All caps.

    Please present proof that they are ‘missing’.

    Jew ‘historians’ claim they ‘went’ to enormous mass graves that are alleged to still exist in allegedly known locations, but those remains do not exist.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1807. JackOH says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin, thanks, and maybe I ought to have been more direct. We’re closing in on 1900 comments beneath Ron’s post, many of which offer strong criticism of the Holocaust narrative, and it ought to be worth asking whether the critics believe their criticism, if demonstrated to be true, will have any effect on the political topography at all. My guess is a cautious “no”.

  1808. annamaria says:
    @jack daniels

    “Do Jews really want to enforce this “reign of terror” over the gentiles? Are they protecting against some imagined future persecution?”

    Exhibit No1: Ukraine.
    Regime-changed by the zionized US State Dept. in 2014
    “Election” of the Kagans-clan selected Yatsenyuk as a prime minister in 2o14:

    “Election” of the Kagans-clan selected Volodymyr Groysman as a first Jewish prime minister of Ukraine in 2016:

    Life became intolerable for 4 million Ukrainians (at least 3 million are in Russia now).
    Kiev has unleashed the neo-Nazi formations on pro-federalists in Eastern Ukraine.
    The neo-Nazi formations have been financed by a pillar of the Jewish Community of Ukraine and dual Ukrainian / Israeli citizen Kolomojsky.
    The neo-Nazi formations had performed an auto-da-fe on the civilians in Odessa, 2014: https://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2014/05/neo-nazi-executions-of-unarmed.html
    (the zionized US State Dept. had no objection to the auto-da-fe)
    The Jewish State has been arming the neo-Nazi with Israel-made weaponry:

    • Replies: @Robjil
  1809. j2 says:
    @utu

    “Which implies that all Jews who were on this territory in 1942 or 1943 should still have been on that territory in 1944 if they were not killed. Which implies that since Eichmann made an offer of 1,000,000 Jews he did not have more Jews than one million under his control because the offer was meant to save Germany by prying off Western Allies from the USSR. I am sure that Himmler on whose behalf Eichmann conducted the talks with the Zionists would offer all the Jews in the Solar System if it could save Germany at this point. But he offered 1,000,000 only. Which implies that the 3 or 4 or more millions of Jews that were on this territory in 1941 or 1942 must have been dead in 1944.”

    I do not intentionally lie. The map I found may not have shown correctly, but Soviets were already in Eastern Poland and they started an attack to south direction in March 1944 according to the maps you show. What it implies to your claims is unclear.

    1) If Germans had say 1.3M in their control, Eichmann might still have announced a round number 1M.

    2) If Germans did as Göbbels writes in his diary: had kept as work force 40% of 1.45M sent to Operation Reinhardt and liquidated 60%, but liquidation was killing 10% and resettling/freeing 50%, then the work force 600,000 was needed in fortification of the line and there would be much fewer left of them, 10% killed for eugenics would be 150,000 dead, and 50% freed would be 700,000 whom Göbbels could not give again if they were to be freed in the original plan. Besides, maybe they already escaped.

    I do not think Eichmann had 3-4M to offer. In the case Germans did what Göbbels diary says, Eichmann had at most 1M (in the camps and Hungarians) and in the east some 300,000 to offer.
    I do not agree that Eichmann would have offered everything under the sun to Jews. There are much more compelling reasons than your speculation on what Eichmann thought that show that not all 1.45M sent to Operation Reinhardt were killed:
    – the mass graves are too small, no cutting of wood for enough fuel, witnesses unreliable, no order to kill
    – calculation from DP camps shows that 260,000 survived Operation Reinhardt to 1946.
    I even consider the text by Göbbels of 40% and 60% as more reliable than anything that one can speculate of Eichmann’s reasoning behind the offer.

    Your last sentence: 3-4M must have died. I agree that 1M had died in the West and Western Poland. In the East Nazis shot many Jews. Very possibly 1.5-2M had already died in German or Soviet hands in the East. I do not think accepting Eichmann’s offer would have saved more than 290,000 Jews, but his offer was not accepted by Budapest Jews. We know what happened to Jews if the offer was not accepted, as it was not accepted and happened what happened. I also can guess what had happened if the offer was accepted: 10,000 trucks would not have changed the outcome of the war. Eichmann simply wanted to keep more Jews alive, as he admired Jews.

  1810. j2 says:
    @Wally

    “Please show us your claimed ‘code’ book for you claimed ‘code words’.”

    I said Sonderbehandlung code, not innocent looking code word for something notorious. I mean code like 14f13 is a code for euthanasia of concentration camp prisoners. T4 is a code for the euthanasia program for hospitals.

    Was there Sonderbehandlung xxxx for instance for burning bodies in crematoria, that is, was there a specific xxxx for this action? Maybe you know. Or were the burners in camps simply Sonderkommandos without a specifically given task as Sonderbehandlung xxx.

  1811. Otterboy says:
    @Colin Wright

    “That’s actually my own best guess as to what occurred. It explains all the credible data.”

    Sometimes I think there are those who are delighted with the zillions of pages and videos about the whole ‘controlled demolition’ contraversy. Could be a great distraction from investigating why and how it was possibly ‘allowed to happen’

    If Ron Unz decided to write an article about this (hint hint) I think the comments could even exceed this thread

  1812. annamaria says:
    @jack daniels

    More on Odessa massacre: https://ukrainebehindwallsfire.wordpress.com/2014/06/15/after-the-odessa-massacre-nazis-colonize-state-armed-forces-behind-ukraines-walls-of-fire-i/
    “A mother and her children were among the dozens butchered, shot dead, or burned alive by the Neo-nazis from Right Sector on May 2, 2014 in Odessa.”
    Note that the Jewish State is happy to have Kolomojsky as an Israeli citizen. Kolomojsky has been the main financier of the Ukrainian neo-Nazis that arranged the auto-da-fe in Odessa.
    The ongoing arming of the neo-Nazis with Israeli weaponry (and the Jewish State’s arming and protecting of the Al Qaeda in Syria ) is not surprising; Jewish hatred towards Russians and Russian culture transcends everything. The Bolsheviks mass murderers were not outliers.
    The Kagans clan (as represented by Nuland-Kagan) has been in tight cooperation with the neo-Nazis even before 2014.
    “Neocon Victoria Nuland, from the U.S. State Department, said they invested 5 billion dollars for “the democracy” in Ukraine. People she supported see the Russian population in the east as “occupants.” They are bombing civilians in their homes and shelling hospitals and schools, they execute women, children, and men on the streets in the East.”

    Every time the holo-biz promoters open their mouths to whine about their “incomparable victimhood,” they should be shouted back with the stories of the Jewish-power-promoted revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine.

  1813. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Wait, so he is the 1 in 6M who actually didn’t get incinerated?

    If you read his account, there were 100 or so others besides him, who were also transferred to other concentration camps as slave labor. This would make Treblinka a “transit camp”. I’m not denying that Jews and other nationalities/ethnicities were or could have been killed there, but maybe the numbers were not as high as is commonly believed and reported/propagandized. The anti-revisionists can only identify very few people by name, who they believe were exterminated in the Operation Reinhardt camps, see here https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494966 :

    “After three hours an SS delegation came and said, are there any carpenters here? Yes, three carpenters. Any locksmiths? Yes. Any plumbers? Yes. Any electricians? Yes. Get out, get out, get out. And I, my friend Herman Hoffman was an electrician, he said to me, if they ask for locksmith next time, get out too. Locksmith? Yes. I knew about it, I was in the steam room. I got out too. We took Otto Menkin with us and Herman and about hundred people went out. And they said are there any gardeners? Yes. Everybody went as a gardener. The gardeners we never saw again.” – http://archive.is/zRibj#selection-6949.0-7185.23

    You can read in this comment that many Nazis preferred to use Jews as slave labor instead of just killing them, which seems to be confirmed by Heinz Rosenberg’s account:

    David Crowe writes that the SS had become an economic force in its own right by 1944, thanks to its plundering of Jewish businesses and ownership of factories that used slave labour from concentration camps.[20]
    […]
    Browning divides the officials of the Government-General of occupied Poland into two factions. One, the “Productionists”, favored using Jews of the ghettos as a source of slave labor to help with the war effort.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2501958

  1814. j2 says:
    @phil

    “The shortened version of the Korherr Report (referring to European Jewry) says that, of the people who emigrated or who were “evacuated”, “only half of these, i.e. a quarter of the total [Jewish] European population of 1937, have been added to [“have flowed into”] the other continents.”!! ”

    Germans transported 1.2M from the West and 1.8M from Western Poland. That is 3M. Half of them is 1.5M, just about the number taken to Operation Reinhardt camps (1.45M). The number of dead was at that point less than 1M of the transported, so other continents cannot refer to more happy hunting grounds.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1815. j2 says:
    @utu

    utu, I thought about Eichmann’s offer and maybe this your question can be useful.
    10,000 trucks could not help Germany in any military task. They were short of gasoline, but not of trucks. For military purposes Hitler would have needed airplanes, artillery or tanks. Trucks are for transport and the biggest transport problem close to Eichmann was transport of the Jews to the East. Transporting Jews competed with military transport needs. We can conclude that the 10,000 trucks were to be used to transport 1 million Jews, 100 in each truck, to the East. East was the destination for Jews that Zionists wanted. Jews were to be moved to be ready to go to the home land. Eichmann tried to move the Jews to the very end, but the railroad capacity was not enough for Jews and military, so he promised to move 1M more immediately to the East, if only Jews provide him with 10,000 trucks. Was there also tea? That would have been for bribing somebody. Tea is not much of a weapon in a war. What do you think of this solution?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1816. @Wally

    Please re-read the post I replied to which was about Jews in Czarist Russia.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1817. Robjil says:
    @annamaria

    The coup was a great wake-up tool for humanity. The Big H was deflated forever in 2014 by the US/Zio/Neocon coup in Ukraine. Neo-nazis were trained and used by Zio/Neocons to take over Ukraine for US/Zion interests. Our MSM endlessly pounds in our heads 24/7 that the National Socialists did the Big 6 and that it was the most terrible thing that ever happened on earth. If the National Socialists were so horrible, the Zio/Neocons would have never revived a form of National Socialism to take over a large country in Europe in the 21st century. The game is up.
    This coup is what woke me up and many other people about everything what our MSM says.

  1818. @crimson2

    Apparently someone once estimated the number of Jews in Russia as six million, and most of those newspaper articles simply mention this number. But others mention five million or three million.

    Six million Jews in Czarist Russia, and then there are three million? Where did the missing three million Russian Jews go? If Czarist-revisionists are to be taken seriously they need to explain the fate of the three million vanished Russian Jews.

  1819. Wally says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Which post did you reply to? There is no @ .

  1820. Wally says:
    @j2

    said:
    “The number of dead was at that point less than 1M of the transported, so other continents cannot refer to more happy hunting grounds.”

    Yet again, you nave no proof they are dead & missing, so what are you even talking about?

    Why do you dodge simple requests for proof?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
    , @j2
  1821. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “…there were two forces for causing WWI, on the one hand the British, who feared Germany economically…on the other the hatred of jews as Morgenthau and Bernard Baruch, because of German anti semitism after 1870…the fairy tale about German guilt for WWI”

    Please explain how the British and Jews ordered Austria-Hungry to spurn mediation efforts and declare war on Serbia 28 July ’14, shell Belgrade the following day and invade Serbia 12 Aug ’14. Were Franz-Joseph I and General Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf controlled by Brits and Jews? A case of Anglo-Jewish-Voodoo?

    Please explain how the British and Jews ordered to Wilhelm II to declare war on Russia (1 Aug ’14); invade Luxembourg (2 Aug ’14); declare war on France (3 Aug ’14); invade neutral Belgium (4 Aug ’14); bomb Liège – 1st aerial bombing in history (6 Aug ’14); sack Leuven, destroy 2000 civilian dwelling, execute 248 residents, fire the famous 300,000 volume Medieval library, and expel 10000 civilians (25 Aug ’14), etc. Were Wilhelm II and Generaloberst Helmuth von Moltke controlled by Brits and Jews? Anglo-Jewish-Telekinesis?

    How did Brits and Jews (or anyone other than Austria-Hungary and Germany) launch WW1? Give us a hint, jilles.

    Britain offered mediation 26 Jul ’14 All principals except Austria-Hungary and Germany agreed. Britain renewed the attempt two days later, warning Austria-Hungary Foreign Minister Count Leopold Berchtold not to “neglect the European aspect” of differences with Serbia lest there be a war involving all powers. Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia the same day, shelled Belgrade the following day (29 Jul ’14). The first military offensive.

    Germany demanded Russia demobilize and issued an ultimatum to France 31 Jul ‘14. The same day Helmuth von Moltke instructed Conrad von Hötzendorf “Decline the renewed advances of Great Britain in the interest of peace. European war is the last chance of saving Austria-Hungary. Germany is ready to back Austria unreservedly”.

    Why would Helmuth say that, jilles? Give us a hint. Weeks later, bogged down in Belgium and France, he wrote his wife “Things have not gone well. The fighting east of Paris has not gone in our favor, and we shall have to pay for the damage we have done”. He’s alleged to have told Wilhelm II “Majesty, we have lost the war” 38 days after Germany invaded Luxembourg. What was he doing in France, jilles? On vacation? Ordered to invade by Brits and Jews?

    “… the stupid Versailles Diktat…caused the German hyperinflation of around 1924, Hitler began his political career”

    Hyperinflation ran 1918-Jan 1924, mostly due to political instability. Rebels, nobles, monarchists, Freikorps, communists and other anti-democracy factions vs social democrats, centrists, etc. Who invests/lends money/trades without social stability? Gustav Stresemann, strong supporter of Weimar democracy, reconciled France and Germany, received the Nobel Peace Prize with counterpart Aristide Briand in 1926. The crisis was over, foreign and domestic investors provided liquidity. Versailles reparations (not originally enumerated, abstract) were not the primary cause. Germany had internal war debts, factionalism. The tragedy? Stresemann died (age 51) 3 Oct 1929. Hitler and the Communists took full advantage to rekindle civil war.

    “USA banksters ran the Weimar Republic, there were three committees, Owen, Dawes, forgot the name of the third.”

    Ran Weimar? Please explain how they “ran” Weimar. Is investing in Germany, helping stabilize the economy, encouraging foreign exchange and ending hyperinflation ‘running’ the republic? Prefer Germany descend into civil war?

    Jilles, blaming hyperinflation on “the stupid Versailles Diktak” merely exposes you as a clone of Ludendorff and Hindenburg. They hated democracy and blamed their own military failure on everyone but themselves (including German civilians who rebelled in famine and defeat). The Kaiser and German General Staff, through incompetence in launching and conducting WW1, were responsible for the (unplanned, unprotected) famine, and first to blame it on everyone else. Sorry.

    “Hitler’s career, the first thing he did looking like career was his participation in the 1923 rising, attempted coup”

    Forget about Hitler’s post-POW guard assignment as a spy and propogandist for Hauptman Karl Mayr’s intelligence department under District Military Commander General Arnold von Möhl (12 Sep 1919-)? Thus, he entered a career dedicated to militarism, in league with far-right nationalists, a rematch to win what Nov ’23 Putsch-mate Ludendorff gambled in 1914 (and lost). The life of the ordinary German? Cannon fodder! They (Hindenburg, Schleicher, Papen, etc.) thought they could control PFC Hitler. Hitler turned the tables and, based on the same myths, re-launched war (Ludendorffs’ dream).

    ”Hitler came democratically to power in 1933, when there were six million unemployed on a population of some 44 million.”

    The 1933 population of Germany was 67 million. You’re an economist? Not good with numbers?

    Hitler was appointed Chancellor 30 Jan 1933 by monarchist Hindenburg in hopes of preventing civil war (the SA numbered 400,000 vs the Reichswehr’s 100,000: Hitler refused to join a cabinet, insisted on all or nothing). The NSDAP won 230 of 608 seats in the Reichstag (305 were required for a majority) on 31 Jul 1932. Hitler’s ascendance had nothing to do with ‘democracy’. It had everything to do with extortion (and an implicit promise to return to authoritarian (non-democratic) rule and militarism.

    The federal civic investment programs Hitler took credit for were initiated by Brüning and Schleicher. The first (warned) fled into exile, the second was murdered (with his wife and many others) in Operation Hummingbird (30 Jun-2 Jul 1934). Tell us, jilles, why was former Chancellor Brüning on Hitler’s hit list? Why were General/former Chancellor Schliecher and his wife (both non-British, non-Jews) murdered? Were they responsible for “hyperinflation” and “the stupid Versailles Diktat”? Give us a clue. Why the death sentence, the executions?

    The only WW1 “fairy tale” is German leadership purity. Killed a lot of innocent Germans, millions of neighbors. WW1 and WW2. Leveled Germany. For nothing.

    Not to say there wasn’t a lot of corruption in other nations. But they didn’t declare war and invade Austria-Hungary and Germany.

    Good luck trying to re-kindle the Dolchstoßlegende, jilles. Maybe, with a little luck, you’ll kill a lot of people? Would that make you happy?

  1822. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    j2,

    that is a highly unlikely and improbable and scenario.

    According to Heinz Rosenberg https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2503693 the Germans/Nazis did not want Jews to fall into the hands of the Soviets when they started invading then eastern Poland, today Belarusian territory, likely they saved them to keep them to continue to be slave labor for the German/Nazi war effort. Very bad text formatting, which I couldn’t fix:

    “It was from September 17 to April 21, 1944, in Puchine. Puchine was then closed down
    because the Russians came already near, you see, and we were shipped to another work camp
    called Scechochw, and this was from April to July in 1944. These were all work camps for the
    Heinkel factory. But the Russians came closer again and when the train left the machine guns
    hit the last car of the train, but they got the Jews out. You see we were one hundred per cent sure that we would be liberated, but they got us out just before they got there. As a matter of fact the SS commander, two or three Polish Jews escaped that night or ten people. In the
    morning we thought we would all be killed, there was already machine guns around.
    Q:
    Because they had escaped?
    A:
    Yes. He said how many escaped? Ten, that’s all, I thought more. He has no guts, you know, he
    was already sick and tired of this, you know.
    Q:
    Now what did you do in the first work camp in Puchine?
    A:
    We worked. I worked as a locksmith. I don’t remember exactly what I did. Because I was very
    strong at the end. First we had to transport in the beginning this was a work force to repair the
    tanks and we have to move these things and the equipment and, of course, they took the young
    men to move these things. And only later on did they try to put us really in places to work. But
    nothing was ever accomplished there, nothing. No airplane ever left there. But these were
    small concentration work camps, you understand. They had SS guards and the SS commandos.
    But in general you worked from 6-6 but you got soup, proper soup at night and a slice of bread,
    and because the camp became smaller, it was bad enough. But we got ____ in Deshov. They
    took us to a public bath every four weeks. The Heinkel Work insisted that the prisoner
    shouldn’t have lice. They paid for us. I think they paid fifty pfenigs a day for us or something
    like that. Puchine went to September and Deshov went from April to July 1944. And that also
    had to be closed down because the Russians came.” – http://archive.is/zRibj#selection-7209.0-7421.48

    Poland’s old and new borders, 1945 (Kresy in gray)

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Poland

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @j2
  1823. Wally says:
    @phil

    said in jest:
    “Or else Himmler had the train records destroyed”

    There actually are Believers that say the Germans destroyed all the outbound train records to hide their alleged crimes.
    As if the German would intentionally incriminate themselves by saving the inbound records while destroying the outbound records. LOL

    Of course those like David Irving have failed to show everyone the alleged huge mass graves that are claimed to exist in allegedly known locations.

    So much for Irving’s ‘get out jail’ ‘holocaust-lite nonsense. See my comment above, #1737.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1824. HdC says:
    @Wally

    Please read my post #1832 again.

    I believe I distinctly wrote: “…of SUPPOSEDLY gassed individuals…” (emphasis here only) in the second paragraph.

    In the first paragraph I simply stated that individuals poisoned with Zyklon B would have a reddish hue as can be verified by perusing appropriate books on pathology. Nowhere did I state in this paragraph anything about German labour camps.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1825. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Typo: …that is a highly unlikely and improbable *[]* scenario.

    Sorry again for the bad text formatting in the above comment. These are the most important passages:

    http://archive.is/zRibj#selection-7209.0-7421.48

    It was from September 17 to April 21, 1944, in Puchine. Puchine was then closed down because the Russians came already near, you see, and we were shipped to another work camp called Scechochw, and this was from April to July in 1944. These were all work camps for the Heinkel factory. But the Russians came closer again and when the train left the machine guns hit the last car of the train, but they got the Jews out. You see we were one hundred per cent sure that we would be liberated, but they got us out just before they got there.

    […]
    They took us to a public bath every four weeks. The Heinkel Work insisted that the prisoner shouldn’t have lice. They paid for us. I think they paid fifty pfenigs a day for us or something like that. Puchine went to September and Deshov went from April to July 1944. And that also had to be closed down because the Russians came.

  1826. annamaria says:
    @Incitatus

    “Maybe, with a little luck, you’ll kill a lot of people? Would that make you happy?”

    Incitatus, we hear your indignation against the very idea of “German leadership purity.”
    WWI and WWII were a long time ago and the Germans have paid for the sins, heftily.

    What are your sentiments about the ongoing scandal of Nazi revival in Ukraine? In the context of jail sentences for engineers, chemist, and historians that has a misfortune to offend the sensitivities of h-biz “purists?”

    Post 1852: “The coup [in Kiev, 2014] was a great wake-up tool for humanity. The Big H was deflated forever in 2014 by the US/Zio/Neocon coup in Ukraine. Neo-nazis were trained and used by Zio/Neocons to take over Ukraine for US/Zion interests. Our MSM endlessly pounds in our heads 24/7 that the National Socialists did the Big 6 and that it was the most terrible thing that ever happened on earth. If the National Socialists were so horrible, the Zio/Neocons would have never revived a form of National Socialism to take over a large country in Europe in the 21st century. The game is up.
    This coup is what woke me up and many other people about everything what our MSM says.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  1827. @annamaria

    Well firstly why did I say revisionists have a relevant point when they say the description of the killing method in the Reinhardt camps is flawed. Why did I say the final solution of the Jewish question originally meant forced emigration? This topic seems to be mainly populated by extremists as proved by your you and your comrades in arms comment. I consider myself fairly typical of the everyman who has stumbled upon this topic. I became vaguely aware of revisionism/denial many years ago but considered the idea of it completely ridiculous. Not worth any of my time. I eventually became computer literate, discovered YouTube and on a boring evening decided to watch a holocaust denial video for its comedy value. It was a what the heck moment. I watched more and went through a this may be the biggest con of the century phase. I watched enough and reached my conclusion. It happened but has been cynically exaggerated for idealogicol reasons. The theists cannot defeat the revisionists without making the concession that it has been cynically exaggerated. This is why they oppose forensic tests. This is why they oppose excavations of the sides. This why they have no “proof”.

  1828. phil says:
    @phil

    Sorry, the original report was actually delivered in January 1943.

  1829. phil says:
    @Wally

    At this point, no one can say with certainty that they died in the Reinhardt camps, and no one can say with certainty that they were re-settled in the USSR.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @annamaria
  1830. Svigor says:
    @Colin Wright

    If WW2 didn’t happen, it’s one Hell of a great hoax. Shittons of big-budget CGI, for one thing. But if the shoah didn’t happen, it’s pretty natural to go “yeah, big shocker there.” The shoah narrative is pretty shitty on its face; some skinny dudes in striped suits peering from behind wire fence, and a big pile of shoes.

    The Moon Landings could fairly easily be a hoax. Trick is, nobody’s threatening me with jail time or oppression if I express doubt about the Moon Landings.

    Holocaust skepticism is a moral duty.

  1831. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    Pathetic. Did you even pause for a moment to consider the difference between guilt ridden Germany that lost the war and the Soviet Union which was quite different till 1990? And what sort of family letters would you expect to find from Jews whose f families included lots of emigrants to Israel and the West?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1832. Wally says:
    @phil

    False.

    If they died in the Reinhardt camps their remains would be there, they are not. Hence they did not die in the Reinhardt camps, obviously. The claim is not just for a few Jews, the claims are the size of city populations.

    There is no proof they are ‘missing’, so asking where they ended up is an irrelevant, illogical question.

    Jews are where Jews are and they are everywhere.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    http://www.codoh.com

  1833. @j2

    Yes, utu is a troll. He claims to be a skeptic but always tries to present the official storyline in the best possible light. Witness his completely irrelevant speculation about Eichmann’s bartering and anal retentive bitching about the front line in 1944.

    • Replies: @j2
  1834. Surprised that Inci-shithead is so late to the party.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1835. Wally says:
    @HdC

    You are right, thanks.

  1836. @Otterboy

    You are too polite. He is an elderly crank about whom the most interesting thing is whether he has acquired, read, annotated and kept all these books he cites. And that is only made mildly interesting to me because someone drew to my attention a story of Gladstone’s library (maybe a precedent for the US Presidential library) which said that he had read 22,000 books, apparently evidenced by his annotations. One can’t help reflecting that one might trust old politicians to be four times chief executives if only they would guarantee to spend 15 hours a week reading books….. [My second hero was Disraeli – first was the Duke of Wellington – and it amused me to learn that Gladstone’s copy of a biography if Dizzy was heavily annotated with the word “untrue” scribbled in the margins near an underlining]. But yes…..

    C’mon Ron. Do a bit of physics for us on the 9/11 events. BTW there are plenty of photographs showing what you would expect if an American Airlines plane had hit the Pentagon low down and not quite squeezed all of it and it’s contents into the visitors’ first floor toilets.

    And C’mon Otterboy Al Baghdadi, please don’t let me down by giving substance to the joke of my non PC Ashkenazi rabbi friend when I quoted a Jew of Iranian origin as saying of Jewish intellectual achievement that it was all culture not genes [oddly Einstein said something a bit like that I recall reading with surprise]. My friend said with a smile something like “but he’s the wrong kind” or “but he’s not Ashkenazi”! I recall Greg Cochran, who is a spruiker (research based) for Ashkenazi genes for intellect, saying there was no evidence of Hebrew and returnees’ superior intellect, quoting some early AD/CE Jew as saying “We may not be as smart as those Greeks but at least we are not a lot of pooftahs!”. Quoted to my rabbi friend it elicited “If only!” – and he cited Philo which leads me back to being grateful to commenter Miggle for opening up for me the big question of what Hellenising did/for the Judaeans and descendants.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1837. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    And where in that off topic rambling rant is proof or the ‘6M Jews, 5M others. & gas chambers’?

    Of course we all know that the ‘Germans killed 20,000 Jews with an atomic bomb’ LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1838. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    Fantasy. You seem to be a simple swallower of sophisticated Russian propaganda rather than paid troll. Have you ever been to Ukraine? Do you speak Ukrainian? Do you have any understanding of the truly profound differences between the (typically Galician) anti-Russian ad hoc alliances of WW2 – as in there being a Galician Waffen SS division – and a 21st century Ukrainian nationalistic development for which using the Nazi tag is about as useful as most boo-words you’ll find on irresponsible internet blogsites. Have you spoken, as I have, to people who have recently spent three weeks in Ukraine visiting their son who has emigrated there and established a prosperous business employing cheap educated labor (or like witnesses)?

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @annamaria
  1839. Robjil says:
    @Anon

    Whatever US/ukraine is now, the US trained and used Neo-nazis to take over Ukraine for US interests. Using any form of National Socialist symbols is a big, gigantic No-No anywhere in the world. People go to jail for just for drawing a swastika even in the US. Using a type of National Socialism by the US Zio/ Neocons to take over Ukraine deflates to nothing the gigantic tidal wave of fear of National Socialism and the Big 6 in minds of many people in the world now. How did the US know it could so easily tamed this Neo-nazism for their use as you say it has been done in US/ukraine? This is proof beyond doubt that the Zio/Neocons know that the Big 6 scare game and National Socialist scare game is a huge shell game sham, a Potemkin village after all. The game is up.

    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  1840. Dear Ron

    I sent you an email with valuable information on this topic. Helmuth James von Moltke wrote a letter in early 1943 to his sister Freya in England, describing how hundreds of thousands of people, mainly Jews were executed by guillotine in Gestapo Headquarters in Germany. The letter was published in Letters to Freya, Knopf, 30 or so years ago–details in my e-mail.

    Please read the email and reply. David Irving and I will be discussing this when we meet in the USA soon

    All the best

    Jim

  1841. Wally says:
    @james bacque

    LOL

    So where’s this “letter” to review? Got physical evidence?

    Just as believable the ‘Nazi A-Bomb that supposedly killed 20,000 Jews’. LOL
    See above, my comment #1872

    http://www.codoh.com

  1842. Wally says:
    @Robjil

    said:
    “This is proof beyond doubt that the Zio/Neocons know that the Big 6 scare game and National Socialist scare game is a huge shell game sham, a Potemkin village after all. The game is up.”

    Indeed, Israel is actually arming these ‘Nazis. Obviously not something they would do if they really bought the impossible ‘holocaust’ nonsense.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1843. Anonymous[203] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    The shoah narrative is pretty shitty on its face.

    What do you mean?

  1844. @Otterboy

    ‘… Yet even non Jewish kids I speak to here in London who study history at school know very little about ww2 but they know about the holocaust and Anne Frank’s Diary…

    It is spectacular. By any reasonable standard, ‘the Holocaust’ would constitute at most a few percent of the whole subject of warfare in general. Yet when I was at the Imperial War Museum in London, one of the four floors was devoted entirely to the Holocaust, and the little book section in the museum store seemed to be all about Anne Frank.

    If we look at just the Second World War, the Holocaust would still amount to at most ten percent of the significance of that struggle — less, in my opinion, but have ten percent. Yet I remember going into the North Branch of the Berkeley Public Library in California. A good half of their books were on the Holocaust.

    These days, ditto for even ‘serious’ history. Richard Evans much-praised trilogy on the Third Reich steadily degenerated until the final volume, the Third Reich at War, seemed to devote half the text to dutifully recounting the Holocaust — with only carefully circumscribed discussion of the motives, of course.

    Ditto for the enthusiastically greeted The Germans at War. The reviews and the introduction both promised a book that would discuss why the Germans fought so hard, and for so long.

    We got — wait for it — yet another recounting of the Holocaust. It’s bizarre, since the Holocaust was actually of no especial importance except to the victims. The post-war world would have been much the same absent it. About the only difference would have been that one small Middle East state wouldn’t have come into being. We’d still have the Cold War, the arrival of the United States as global hegemon, ‘democracy’ as an unquestionable sacred cow, free trade, the UN, an end to colonialism, etc, etc. The Holocaust simply wasn’t that significant.

    …and yet it’s half — or more — of what we hear about the Second World War. It’s as if all histories of the First World War dwelt primarily on the increased participation of women in the workplace or something.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1845. @Svigor

    ‘…The Moon Landings could fairly easily be a hoax. Trick is, nobody’s threatening me with jail time or oppression if I express doubt about the Moon Landings…’

    That is indeed one aspect of all this I agree with you about. You can speculate the moon landings might be a hoax. I can dismiss the possibility. No one’s going to make either opinion a crime.

    The situation should be the same with the Holocaust.

  1846. @Incitatus

    ‘…How did Brits and Jews (or anyone other than Austria-Hungary and Germany) launch WW1? Give us a hint, jills…’

    I’d pick France and Serbia myself, but (as Yogi Berra once said in another connection), it was a team effort. The situation, rather than the actions of any one power, produced the war.

    In my view, when it comes to World War One, the tendency to blame Germany and Austro-Hungary in particular is an anachronism. They were clearly the guilty party in 1939, ergo, they must have been the guilty parties in 1914 as well.

  1847. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    “…sophisticated Russian propaganda…”
    — Since then Haaretz and the US Congress are the nests of Russian propaganda? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727
    https://news.antiwar.com/2018/03/27/congress-bans-arms-being-sent-to-neo-nazi-faction-in-ukraines-national-guard/

    Your partner crimson2 shouts, in each his post, ”Nazi!” in defense of the holo-biz, whereas you decided to inform the Unz readers that Ukrainian neo-Nazi are just like innocent kids (“boo-words you’ll find on irresponsible internet blogsites”), never mind the neo-Nazis’ killings, including the burning the civilians alive: https://therealnews.com/stories/max-blumenthal-us-is-arming-neo-nazis-in-ukraine

    This forum is about the violation of the freedom of information and freedom of speech by the extortionist from holo-biz. Your contribution, so far, was the white-washing of the ziocons’ ties with the neo-Nazis and the praising of the good business in the regime-changed zionized and Nazified Ukraine.

    Tell us, Anon [436], do you agree that any questioning of holo-biz clams deserves jail terms?

  1848. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robjil

    I’ve no more idea than you do what the USG or its agencies knew about the Who’s Who in or about Ukraine over the last 20 years or so. (My working assumption would be that they know bigger all about anything that matters). As to who they might employ if useful start thinking with Werner von Braun and move on via anyone in Intelligence whose SS uniform has been retailored to, well…. this is the 21st century innit?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  1849. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Mighty, I will present this argument to you as utu is an H-troll, FKA max considers it very unlikely and Wally denies everything.

    In April-May 1944 Eichmann promised to Budapest Jews to free 1M Jews if Jews provide 10,000 trucks. All important camps and ghettos where under German control in April-May 1944.

    Germany was short of gasoline, not trucks. In order to stop Soviets, Hitler would have needed gasoline, airplanes, artillery and tanks, later also soldiers. Captured Jews had been put to production of munition and other war material. The only use Germany could have had for 10,000 trucks was to ease transport difficulties. In 1944 these transport difficulties were made worse by transporting Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz. Eichmann was responsible for transport of Jews to the east.

    From Yad Vashem figures it follows that 1.22M Jews of the West (all but Poland, the USSR of 1940 and Romania) were transported by Nazis. There were 1.83M in 1939. Therefore 0.61M Jews were not transported. Some of them had fled to the UK and some were not yet transported in April-May 1944. Thus, it is quite possible that 0.56M were in the West in German hands and not transported when Eichmann negotiated with the Jews. There were 0.43M Hungarian Jews, who had not yet been transported. The sum of Western Jews in occupied countries was very close to 1M when Eichmann made these negotiations.

    I suggest that by freeing 1M Jews he means evacuating these Jews to the East. He could have done it if he had 10,000 trucks and he asked the Jews to provide the trucks. Jews declined the offer, thus 0.61M Jews of the West were not transported. Germans could not spare trains for this task. If this is the correct explanation, it clearly pinpoints the origin for the need to transport Jews to the East to Zionist Jews, who were planning on establishment of Israel and needed Jews to settle the new home land.

    Let us consider the alternative: that Eichmann promised to leave 1M Jews in peace. He knew that there were about 0.56M still in the West and 0.44M in Hungary, but additionally Nazis had other Jews in concentration camps. Thus, Eichmann could have offered more than 1M to the Jews: leave to peace 1M who have not yet been transported and free those (at least 0.3M) who were still alive in the camps. But leaving 1M Jews in peace would not have needed 10,000 trucks. Had Germany not used railroads for transporting Jews, they would not have needed more trucks. However, freeing Jews who worked for Germany was hardly a question: Germans needed that work more than they needed 10,000 trucks.

    Why would Eichmann make an offer of freeing Jews working for military in exchange of 10,000 trucks that Germany did not need for military needs? It seems clear to me that the offer was that Eichmann can evacuate and resettle the remaining 1M Jews, provided that Jews get 10,000 trucks for this task, with gasoline for sure. To free the Jews being used as a term for resettlement is quite possible. Eichmann was in friendly terms with Jews, so this offer is possible. He mentioned it in the interview, so it hardly can be any sinister plan but a demonstration of his good will towards Jews and also a pointer to the party for whom Jews were transported to the East.

    I again make the same question: if Hitler did not exterminate the Jews but transported them to the East, what was the final destination of these Jews supposed to be. Jilles always proposes Madagascar, but Jews did not want to go there, so it would have had to be a prison island forever. It is not a final solution. A final solution can only be Palestine, where Zionists wanted Jews.

    Think about this for a while before answering that it is a highly unlikely scenario. Why would it be highly unlikely, considering that the Palestine plan was already old and supported by powers that be.

  1850. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Anon [436], have you heard about Jewish Bolsheviks and their prominent role in GULAG (a network of death camps] and secret police? Never heard? — amazing.
    WoO was wondering about SS diaries. But the SS sadists were babes next to Frenkel, Zalkind (Zemlyachka), Kaganovich, and likes. None of these Bolshevik mass murderers and sadists had ever repelled, though according to the rules of normalcy they should have been “guilt ridden.”

    Their progeny in Israel and Moscow and the West is indeed pathetic: https://theduran.com/bloody-monday-grandnephew-of-gulag-organizer-stabbed-moscow-radio-station-editor/ “Bloody Monday: Grandnephew of GULAG organizer stabbed Moscow radio station editor”

  1851. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    “that is a highly unlikely and improbable and scenario.

    According to Heinz Rosenberg https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2503693 the Germans/Nazis did not want Jews to fall into the hands of the Soviets when they started invading then eastern Poland, today Belarusian territory, likely they saved them to keep them to continue to be slave labor for the German/Nazi war effort. ”

    I do not mean that Nazis were moving Jews to the East to give them to Soviets. I say Nazis were moving Jews to the East as Zionists wanted them there in order to later taken them to Palestine. I say it was Zionists who left most of them to the Soviets, as very few could be taken to Palestine at that time, but Nazis did not have any part in it. Nazis simply moved Jews to the East as was the original plan coming from Freemasons through Theosophists: make anti-Semitism to push Jews out of Europe in order to create Israel. Zionism was a Masonic creation, so they had the same plan. Please, reconsider after some thinking, and if you have a good argument why this would be highly unlikely, then present it. You are not trying to deny that Nazis were moving Jews to the East, I guess.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  1852. j2 says:
    @Incitatus

    “Please explain how the British and Jews ordered Austria-Hungry to spurn mediation efforts and declare war on Serbia 28 July ’14, shell Belgrade the following day and invade Serbia 12 Aug ’14. Were Franz-Joseph I and General Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf controlled by Brits and Jews? A case of Anglo-Jewish-Voodoo?

    Please explain how the British and Jews ordered to Wilhelm II to declare war on Russia (1 Aug ’14); invade Luxembourg (2 Aug ’14); declare war on France (3 Aug ’14); invade neutral Belgium (4 Aug ’14); bomb Liège – 1st aerial bombing in history (6 Aug ’14); sack Leuven, destroy 2000 civilian dwelling, execute 248 residents, fire the famous 300,000 volume Medieval library, and expel 10000 civilians (25 Aug ’14), etc. Were Wilhelm II and Generaloberst Helmuth von Moltke controlled by Brits and Jews? Anglo-Jewish-Telekinesis?

    How did Brits and Jews (or anyone other than Austria-Hungary and Germany) launch WW1? ”

    I have come to the conclusion that WWI was started by Freemasons and other pre-Zionists (Jewish bankers). The reasoning is simple: Black Hand got weapons from Serbian intelligence, so Serbian intelligence must have known that the provocation would very probably result into Austrian attack on Serbia. Serbia was weaker than Austria, thus Serbian intelligence knew that Russia would come to their support. Russia must have made such a promise and for Russia to have made such a promise, it would have had to know that France would support it against Germany, as Germany was sure to support Austria. Russia probably knew that England would also go against Germany, even if England’s highest political and military leaders did not know it (England was not prepared for a war), Masons were so strong in England that Churchill could take the country to a war.

    If you think about this, it is quite certain: Serbian intelligence had to have a good promise from Russia, Russia had to have a good promise from France and England. The ones, who did not know were: Austria did not know that attacking Serbia it would get to a world war. Germany probably did not know if England and France would support Russia, as for Germany a war on two fronts was nothing they wanted. They had the Schliessen plan, but nobody in their right mind wants to have a war on two fronts, even though they had a plan how to do it.

    How this connects to Freemasons? Archduke Ferninand told his friend, who wrote it in a book, that Freemasons have decided to kill him. There is a Catholic newspaper where 2 years before the war is told as a rumor that a high Freemason was heard saying that Ferninand is a good chap, too had be will be killed before taking power. I checked these, and they are not forgeries. Additionally one of the Black Hand assassins told that they worked for Freemasons. The witness statement was ignored by the court. WWI did achieve Masonic goals: three monarchies fell, Palestine plan advanced, a war that ends all wars (senseless war) was fought.

    Wilhelm II wanted a war and if there had to be a war, he wanted it to start early. Yet, there was a general opinion that there has to be a world war, and this is not from Wilhelm II. It is the propaganda of the dawn of the West and start of a new time, collapse of the Ancient regime, war that ends all wars. All this Spirit of the Time is essentially Masonic.

  1853. @james bacque

    ” hundreds of thousands of people, mainly Jews were executed by guillotine ”
    Anyone who is familiar with how the guillotine operated begins to smile, a very labour intensive method of killing.
    Read how long Stalin’s shot in the neck procedure of some 30.000 Polish officers took, many weeks.
    Bodies were found after German army advanced, apparently Stalin never foresaw this.

  1854. Wally says:
    @j2

    said
    “Wally denies everything”

    More desperate lies from j2. I reject the scientifically impossible, j2 just ‘believes’.

    I utilize logic & rational thought in my rejection of a narrative it the completely irrational, illogical. j2 simply ‘believes’ in ‘scenarios’ which are neither.

    Simply stated, there is nothing that I reject that j2 can prove otherwise.

    j2 simply ignores the fact that Hitler wanted the ‘Jewish question’ settled AFTER THE WAR, as proven in the Schlegelberger Document and the Luther Memo, as posted in my comment #372.

    Fact’s are more than j2’s conditioning can bear.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1855. j2 says:
    @Wally

    ” j2 said:
    “The number of dead was at that point less than 1M of the transported, so other continents cannot refer to more happy hunting grounds.”
    Wally responded:
    Yet again, you nave no proof they are dead & missing, so what are you even talking about?
    Why do you dodge simple requests for proof?”

    Of course Wally, I give you the numbers and where they died. To the end of the war died:
    In German camps 0.3M, in Theresienstadt 0.03M, in work camps and ghettos in Poland 0.17M, in Majdanek 0.059M., in German invasion, terror and Warsaw ghetto uprising 0.057, shot in Yugoslavia 0.058M. Together 0.668M.

    Then there are the camps Chelmno (0.15M), Auschwitz (0.06M) and to Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec I put 0.12M. Together 0.33M. Adding 0.67+0.33=1M.

    There are some mass graves in Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec, so 0.12M (10%) seems reasonable to me. To Chelmno were transported 0.1M children from Lodz ghetto. Maybe they ended up to kibbutzes, but as there is no evidence, I assume them dead.

    Here is my estimation for 0.3M in camps in Germany:
    “In German camps died 390.000, but not all were Jews. This figure I calculated as Bergen-Belsen 0.05 million, Buchenwaldt 0.05, Ravensbruk some 0.09, Mauthausen maybe 0.08 (mostly non-Jews), Flossenberg 0.03, Dachau 0.027 its subcamp 0.01. The rest, that is Gross-Rosen, Stutthof, Sachenhausen, Neuengammen, Natzweiler, Mittelbau, etc. together make maybe 0.05. These all sum to 0.39 million. How many were Jews? I don’t know, I guess about 0.3 million. It cannot have been a small part: Jews were transported back to Germany at the end of the war.”

    Here is my estimation for 0.17M in ghettos and work camps in Poland:
    “Dead in ghettos and work camps in Poland, excluding Majdanek: Warsaw ghetto (76.000) before the uprising, Łódź ghetto (43.800), Tarnow (10.000), Stanisławów (about 10.000), Kielce (6.000), Stryj (4.000-12.000), Tomazów Mazowiecki (4.000), Sieniawa (3.000), Pietrków Trybunalski (3.000), Zagórów (2.000-2.500), Minsk Mazowicki (1.300), Nowy Zmigrow (1.300) and Góra Kalvaria (300). Total 165.000-173.000 Jews.”

    You know Wally, many Jews died in WWII. You do not really need to deny everything.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1856. @Wally

    Rainer Karlsch, ‘Hitlers Bom, Hoe Nazi-Duitsland nucleaire wapens testte in een wanhopige poging om de oorlog te winnen, Tielt, 2005 (Hitlers Bombe, München)
    It was a hydrogen, also fusion, bomb, primed by ordinary explosives.
    For the Manhattan project 30.000 men were needed, the hydrogen bomb was developed by three scientists, one of them a jew.
    An envoy of Mussolini witnessed one of the succesfull test explosions, indeed men from concentration camps were used as guinea pigs, their number, a few dozen.
    The survivors all were shot after the explosion.
    And indeed, Hitler’s hope of still not losing the war waw based on this bomb, Rudel, Germany’s best pilot, was to drop the first one on the Ural hydro electric installations, in order to stop tank production.
    Hans-Ulrich Rudel, ´Mein Kriegstagebuch, Aufzeichnungen eines Stukafliegers’, 1983, 2006 Dresden
    Already in his 1956 book Rudel mentions this atomic bomb, in the mentioned book one finds that Hitler did not want Rudel to fly his anti tank missions any more, Rudel ignored Hitler’s instruction.
    At the Prague airport two converted bombers were ready to take off, the hydrogen bomb was a sphere of about a metre in diameter.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1857. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    On your charlatan Richard Evans, see:

    Evans’ ‘Lying about Hitler’, Book Review, By Samuel Crowell : https://codoh.com/library/document/2961/?lang=en
    exc.:

    On the subject of gassing, Evans is particularly weak. He claims that there is documentary evidence for gassing at the extermination camps of Chelmno, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Auschwitz-Birkenau, thus contradicting Christopher Browning’s expert report, which explicitly discusses the absence of such documentation

    Holocaust Revisionism vs. Richard Evans, A Review, By Paul Grubach: https://codoh.com/library/document/402/?lang=en

    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=richard+evans

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1858. @Colin Wright

    Again amazed of the lack of historical knowledge.
    After the bolsjewist coup of November 1917, the end of democratic Russia that existed since the spring of 1917, Trotski found the secret pre 1914 agreement between GB, Russia and France to destroy three empires: the German, the Habsburg and the Ottoman.
    The agreement was publicised.

    As to why WWI, in my opinion:
    Edward Mead Earle, Ph.D., ‘Turkey, The Great Powers and The Bagdad Railway, A study in Imperialism’, 1923, 1924, New York
    GB feared German economic expansion to the SE.

    The same reason for giving guarantees, not just to Poland, but also to Mediterranean countries
    Lawrence R. Pratt, ‘East of Malta, West of Suez’, London, 1975
    In the latter case Germany, and the Italian fleet were feared.
    Britain’s prize possession was India.
    The railway was to be extended to Basra, from there German goods could easily be brought to India, GB was unable to patrol the whole Indian coast, on top of that, the railway concession ran trough Mosul, withh ten miles at both sides, thus giving Germany access to the most oil rich region then known.
    GB needed oil, the first oil fired British turbine dreadnought was launched in 1916.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1859. j2 says:

    Still on Eichmann’s offer April-May 1944: 1M Jews freed if Jews give 10,000 trucks.

    Eichmann’s offer must have been accepted by Hitler. Hitler believed that the USSR is controlled by Communist Jews, that the UK and the USA are controlled by Zionist Jews, that both are controlled by Jewish bankers, and that Jews got the USA to the war against Germany in the WWI. Hitler has 1M Jews and offers to free them. What does he ask from the Jews? Not that Jews get the USA out of the war, not that the Jews get the UK to make a peace, not that the Jews pressure the USSR to stop the attack, while Hitler believed Jews could do such things. He asks for 10,000 trucks, though Germany is short of gasoline and trucks cannot stop the ongoing Soviet attack. Is he nuts?

    No, not yet. He needs 10,000 truck to transport something. If he would not transport Jews, the railroad capacity would be sufficient, so he needs the trucks to transport Jews. If by freeing 1M Jews he means that he will leave 0.56M Jews in the West and 0.44M Jews in Hungary to stay where they are, he does not need trucks for it. He wants to transport Jews somewhere. He has some 0.3-1M Jews in concentration camps doing important things for the military. He will not give those Jews in order to get 10,000 trucks and nothing else.

    The offer is to transport (free/resettle) 1M Jews which still have not been transported to Eastern Poland. Then there will be not only 1.5M Jews to the new home land but 2.5M Jews, just what Zionists wanted. These Jews will be between Germany and Soviets and Zionist Jews do not want them to fall to Soviet hands. This is why Nazis were killing Communist Jews. Zionist Jews were the good ones, Communist Jews were the bad ones. Jews will persuade the Soviet Union to stop the attack. But to do this Hitler needs 10,000 trucks as otherwise he cannot transport 1M Jews to the East: railroads were needed for military transports.

    The offer of Eichmann is a clear proof that Nazis were transporting Jews to the East for Zionist Jews, who wanted to create Israel. One third of transported Jews died, but that was normal for those times for concentration camps and could not be avoided.

    Good that you brought this issue up, utu, it really destroys the Holocaust believer’s case. Maybe we are still on the same side against Nazis and Zionists.

  1860. Robjil says:
    @Anon

    In the west it is 500 BC and not the 21st century as of yet. “Seven nations to destroy for the 911 false flag” is on the ongoing mantra of our time. Where does this “sophisticated” concept comes from? Deuteronomy 7:1-2 in the Old Testament. Oh course, 500 BC thinking, we are not in the 21st century in the west these days. Iran is the only one of the seven that has not been attacked by the 500 BC fanatics ruling the west, Israel, other deluded western allies and their terrorist proxies. So, all the chatter about getting Iran is all the “rage” among 500 BC fanatics ruling the west. Syria is also a big thing in all the chatter coming from our 500 BC fanatic rulers because it was only half destroyed. Lebanon is still on this “sophisticated” list for the same reason. Israel tried to get Lebanon in 2006, but failed. Mel Gibson complained about it. He got in trouble but not Israel. Israel, the super duper 500 BC fanatic, gets carte blanche for everything by our faux free press.

  1861. @Colin Wright

    ” They were clearly the guilty party in 1939, ergo, they must have been the guilty parties in 1914 as well. ”
    Just now saw this sentence.
    Why was Germany the guilty party in 1939 ?
    Because Hitler responded to the Polish provocations ?
    Poland wanted war, not Hitler.
    A J P Taylor, ‘The Origins of the Second World War’, 1961, 1967, Londen
    Comte Jean Szembek, Ancien sous-secrétaire d’État aux Affaires étrangères de Pologne, ‘Journal, 1933 – 1939’, Paris 1952

  1862. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    crimson2, you are cheerleading for the modern-day promoters of neo-Nazism and radical Islam.
    The US zionists (see Kagans clan of warmongers) have been cooperating with Ukrainian neo-Nazi before and during the anti-democratic regime change in Kiev in 2014, whereas the Jewish State has been arming Ukrainian neo-Nazis: https://www.sott.net/article/390483-Israel-now-arming-neo-Nazis-in-Ukraine
    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201807061066088911-Ukrainian-Neo-Nazi-Leader-Welcome-US/

    Enough already of your waling about Nazis and holo-biz. Israel-firsters are the main supporters and promoters of neo-Nazism in Eastern Europe.
    The arming of the neo-Nazis with Israel-made weaponry has been approved by two Jewish prime ministers — the corrupt Bibi (Mielkovsky) and corrupt Volodymyr Groysman. The latter was miraculously “elected” by Ukrainians: https://forward.com/opinion/401518/violent-anti-semitism-is-gripping-ukraine-and-the-government-is-standing/
    Guess your ever-profiteering tribe is looking for Lebensraum in Ukraine.

    The Jewish State has been financing, arming, and proving with medical care the most radical Islamists. The Jewish Al Qaeda: https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/syrian-general-israel-always-attacks-syrian-army-to-defend-jihadist-allies/
    “UN: Proven Ties Between ISIS And Israel:” https://yournewswire.com/un-proven-ties-between-isis-and-israel/
    Close your holo-biz museums already.

  1863. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Anon[436] is very displeased with the discussion on the Jewish Power’ assault on the freedom of speech and the freedom of information. Anon[436] prefers that the Jewish Power flourishes unopposed, the western civilization be damned.

  1864. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    What your declaration has to do with the Jewish Power’ assault on the freedom of information? Have you heard about Galileo? Do you understand that the certain segment of the Jewish tribe made a profitable business on the WWII tragedy thus abusing the memory of the victims?

  1865. annamaria says:
    @crimson2

    Crimson2: “I suggest that all Holocaust-deniers deserve a little Special Treatment.”
    — Start with your Bibi, crimson2
    http://themillenniumreport.com/2018/07/israel-arming-neo-nazi-groups/
    “An investigative report in Haaretz, Israel’s longest running and arguably most influential newspaper, details a broad campaign underway by over 40 human rights leaders to pressure Israel’s High Court of Justice to order the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine, as they argue militant neo-Nazi groups are among the recipients of those weapons.
    An Azov militiaman – an openly neo-Nazi group – holding an Israeli Tavor rifle. Image source: Azov YouTube channel screenshot:

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1866. @j2

    Very interesting. Claims of implausibly can be countered by asking, compared to what? It is the official story (of a grand extermination plan) that is extremely implausible, and alternative explanations (however incomplete or speculative) need to be evaluated in light of what we’re required to believe (under penalty of law in some jurisdictions).

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  1867. annamaria says:
    @phil

    You do understand that your answer, in uncertain terms re holo-biz claims, would send you to jail in the EU?

  1868. Hans says:

    It’s time for real historians, or people investigating the psychological programming aspects of the hoax, to mine the wealth of information residing the “Stalags” – the post-war concentration camp porn genre – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalag_fiction

  1869. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    I was thinking the same thing, an audio or podcast format. Something I could listen to while running around my local trails in the morning or on the train. I was watching you on some YouTube videos and you have a very pleasant voice which would be perfect for audio.

    “If the news is fake, imagine how bad history is.” -Nassim Taleb

  1870. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Thanks for your kind answer.

    “need to be evaluated in light of what we’re required to believe (under penalty of law in some jurisdictions).”

    The official story is possible, but only by accepting miracles. Miracles can be worthy of belief, especially if jurisdiction requires it, and belief is often difficult to combine with scientific theories without apparent contradictions. In a scientific explanation, however, miracles are not accepted and therefore explanations requiring miracles must be discarded when in the scientific domain, despite the fact that deep down we strongly believe their truth and will so witness in in a court if our beliefs are questioned. This, I think, is an accepted position in any Christian country.

    The first Masonic world war was the period of Napoleonic wars, funded by Rothschild. Napoleon’s army spread Egyptian Freemasonry (the direct predecessor of Mizraim) everywhere. Jacobins were Masons and there is enough proof that Napoleon himself was a Mason. There is sufficient evidence to say that Freemasons started the First World War, and handed power to Bolsheviks in Russia. The restoration of Jews to Palestine was a Masonic plan from the beginning, as the case of Mordecai Manuel Noah shows, and the Balfour declaration demonstrates that the Palestine plan shaped the outcome of the WWI. It would be too haste to discard the possibility that the WWI, which directly lead to establishment of Israel and without which there would be no Israel, was not an integral part of these activities. The organization that supports the official Holocaust story, ADL, was founded by B’nai B’rith, itself founded by Jewish Freemasons. The notorious forgery, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, has all Masonic signs, including being signed by the 33rd degree Zion. It appeared in Theosophic circles, and connections between Theosophy and Freemasonry on the highest level are clear: Blavatsky was a Mizraim Freemason. Jacob Schiff, an ardent Zionist, appears as a leading figure in B’nai B’rith and ADL, and as a financier of Russian revolutions. Asserting that Nazis certainly had no association with this Judeo-Masonic combination requires belief that resembles religious faith.

  1871. Streicher says: • Website

    Hello Mr. Unz,

    I have been a vocal advocate of revisionist history online for a great many years and over that time I have made a great many memes, both images and videos. On the scale of probabilities, you have probably seen more than a few holocaust memes that I have created and distributed over the years. I am glad to know that there are Jews like yourself out there who see past the prejudices to which world war II revisionists like myself are regularly subjected.

    The majority of your readers, I am sure, are familiar with the fact that the modern left is not open to debate and regularly engages in smear tactics against its opponents. It does not matter what people on the right do or say. It does not matter what policies they propose or don’t propose. Whatever they say, whatever they propose, the left simply responds with the accusation of “bigotry!” and then immediately dismisses whatever the people on the right say.

    Right wingers do not even have to say anything offensive. Consider a completely innoculous word like the word “wall”. Go onto a US university campus and loudly speak the completely innoculous word “wall”. You will promptly be met, from complete strangers mind you, with accusations of racism and bigotry.

    Go onto a US university campus and say that men who wear dresses are not actually women – you are now “transphobic”. Announce that marriage is strictly between a man and a woman – you are a bigotted “homophobe” who should “bake that cake!”. Say that islamic extremists are prone to violence – and pull out a table showing the statistics that prove this – you are now an “islamophobe”.

    Now say that you doubt the official holocaust narrative. Congratulations. You, according to the very same cry babies, (provided that you are not jewish,) are now officially an “anti-semite” and a “neo-nazi” and “literally Hitler” and much, much worse besides.

    I made this post, because I just wanted to make it clear to the Jews that browse this website, as well as to you as well Mr. Unz, that the accusation of “anti-semitism” to which revisionists are regularly subjected is just as groundless as all of the others. The idea that anyone who doubts the official holocaust narrative is an “anti-semite” is a myth spread by the ADL. The majority of the people who don’t believe this rubbish, myself included, have no problem at all with Jews.

    And I will say this much to any ADL jerks who are lurking: believe it or not, there are people other than anti-semites (I mean genuine antisemites, not the people whom you continually falsely accuse of such things) who genuinely wonder why the Germans would set up recreational facilities within a “death camp” like Auschwitz. After all, the gulags didn’t have swimming pools, theatre buildings, libraries, or whore-houses.

    Sincerely,

    HDC BitChute Anon

  1872. Otterboy says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I always try and be polite and am open to listening to others, even if I completely disagree

    Please read my comment 788. I totally believe that it was real jihadis and real planes that hit the buildings. I don’t need to believe there were additional explosives. In fact the whole controlled demolition debate has deflected from the real question everyone should be asking. How was this ‘allowed’ to happen?

    Would be an interesting, but separate, debate

    Best wishes

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1873. j2 says:
    @Otterboy

    “I totally believe that it was real jihadis and real planes that hit the buildings. I don’t need to believe there were additional explosives.”

    I thank you for writing this, it clarifies many things and confirms some very old conclusions.

  1874. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Mighty, I have come to the conclusion that we may be the only honest ones in this site. (or maybe not you, but Finns are like that for genetic reasons). You asked me to go on writing comments, but so did utu, and now utu is a confirmed H-troll. When I read Otterboy’s last comment, I think it is really time for me to stop. So, it was nice, my best thanks to you, all my very best, and that’s it.

  1875. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    The problem with your outlook is that you never come to understand how Nazism worked, how it did appeal, and appeal not to some body of ‘bad people,’ but to individuals whose moral complexion was about the same as ours.

    No, it’s not – one does have nothing to do with another. “Good”, “bad”, “evil” are moral concepts and have little to do with understanding or analysis of causes and effects. Naturally, we should apply cold-blooded analysis to Nazism as to any social phenomenon, which does not in any way precludes condemning it. After all, we do study cancer scientifically and dispassionately without considering it 10% good 90% bad or 20% good or something alone those lines. We kind of all agree that it is much better not to have it altogether.

    America could make a glorious Third Reich. I’d rather not go there, though.

    Agreed. But you don’t think that all this talk about grey areas in Nazism, Germany being a victim, provoked and misunderstood, Jews being guilty of everything under the sun and deserving what happened to them are all steps in that very direction?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1876. @Wally

    And yet Evans remarkably could not come up with this documentary evidence, or any documentary evidence, at the Irving V Lipstadt trial.

    Rather odd, that.

  1877. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    You are not trying to deny that Nazis were moving Jews to the East, I guess.

    No, not at all, j2, as you can read in my previous comments in this thread. I very much believe that the vast majority of Germans/Nazis preferred Jewish emigration and/or exploitation (slave labor, “Blut gegen Waren”/”Blood for Goods”, etc.) to Jewish extermination, and that is why I am personally skeptical of the 6-million-Jews-murdered-by-the-Germans/Nazis figure.

    Eichmann said during his trial, that:

    It was approved as far as the number was concerned, the ten per cent clause was approved, and I heard that, as a result, Himmler aimed at motorizing the 22nd and 8th SS Cavalry Divisions, something on which Becher was also working.

    http://archive.is/DSZ9u#selection-133.350-133.582

    with those 10,000 trucks, etc., and that is why I think your theory ” is a highly unlikely and improbable scenario”.

    Both of these units fought on the Eastern Front:

    The 22nd SS Volunteer Cavalry Division (22. SS-Freiwilligen Kavallerie-Division)[1] was a German Waffen SS cavalry division which was active on the Eastern Front during the Second World War.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22nd_SS_Volunteer_Cavalry_Division_Maria_Theresia

    The 8th SS Cavalry Division “Florian Geyer” was a German Waffen-SS cavalry division during World War II. […] In April 1944, they returned to Hungary and took part in the fighting in Transylvania after the Romanian front collapsed.[3] […] The division was destroyed in the fighting for Budapest, and by the end of the siege, of the 30,000 men of the SS Corps, only about 800 reached the German lines.[3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_SS_Cavalry_Division_Florian_Geyer

  1878. @EugeneGur

    ‘…Agreed. But you don’t think that all this talk about grey areas in Nazism…

    Just the contrary. The usual view of Nazism as being uniquely evil, perpetrated by fiends in human form, etc, makes it something that of course we couldn’t repeat. We are, after all, nice people.

    We wouldn’t do things like that. Well, the Germans were just as nice as you and me, and they did it. That’s what we need to take away from it — and if we don’t, there’s no reason we can’t repeat it.

    …Germany being a victim, provoked and misunderstood, Jews being guilty of everything under the sun and deserving what happened to them are all steps in that very direction?’

    All that’s a bit of a straw man; these aren’t my sentiments. I regard Israel as a repetition of Nazi Germany, but other than that, I have remarkably little bad to say about Jews. I’ve been advancing the proposition that Jews are morally no worse than any one of a number of groups right here on this thread.

    As to Germany, while I don’t regard it as having any especial responsibility for World War One, it clearly started World War Two, and certainly both carried out the Holocaust and had no defensible reason for doing so.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1879. Wally says:
    @j2

    said:
    ” I give you the numbers and where they died.”

    No you didn’t. You have no proof that they ‘died, otherwise you’d present it.

    “There are some mass graves in Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec”

    – No there’s not. Otherwise you’d show them to us.

    – You claim Jews are missing but cannot prove they are missing.

    I only reject impossible claims like the ones that you make. LOL

    Show us that what I reject is wrong. We await.

    new: !! ‘Holocaust Skepticism: 20 Questions & Answers about Holocaust Revisionism’ !! / now available: https://shop.codoh.com/book/456/469 free .pdf:
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/HolocaustSkepticism.pdf

    http://www.codoh.com

  1880. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    LOL.

    – IOW, you believe the Nazis killed 20,000 Jews with an A-bomb. LOL
    – So where’s the proof of this laughable claim?
    – Where is the site that Mussolini’s envoy “witnessed”. Where are verifiable the radioactivity measurements from it, and signs of site destruction that would have occurred?
    – Someone “mentioning an atomic bomb” program does not mean there was an atomic bomb.
    – Please produce the quotes from Rudel’s book …. which I have. LOL
    said:
    “At the Prague airport two converted bombers were ready to take off, the hydrogen bomb was a sphere of about a metre in diameter.”
    LOL – Again, give us the specifc quote and citation.
    fact:

    The evidence was clear: the Germans had not come close to developing a bomb and had only advanced to preliminary research.
    https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/german-atomic-bomb-project

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1881. L.K says:
    @james bacque

    Jesus H. Christ, so now we also have a holohoax by guillotine!!!, besides the holohoax by gas and bullets?!!

    What a ridiculous, lame statement!

    Hard to believe you are the same Bacque who wrote a couple of good books.

    Bizarre, really.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1882. FKA Max says: • Website
    @james bacque

    Freya was his wife, I believe, and his estimates point to tens of thousands (he estimates 50 per day) killed by guillotine, not “hundreds of thousands of people”, but maybe you have additional information, that I am not aware of?

    He might not have written so many letters, however, which would have been a pity as these to Freya, his young wife, have much the same force and gossipy bite as Galeazzo Ciano’s diaries, providing a behind-the-scenes view of the German war machine.

    One of Germany’s best and brightest, Moltke had a secure career ahead of him in the foreign ministry, at least until 1939, when he began to apply his formidable legal talents to the saving of Jews and prisoners of war. Based in Berlin, but forever scurrying off to Oslo, Warsaw, Paris, Brussels and Vienna to intercede and confer, he became an international courier of compassion. Estimating that in 1943 Germany had 19 guillotines “working at considerable speed,” beheading 50 per day (not counting deaths in the camps), he tried to save as many non-German prisoners as he could.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/entertainment/books/1990/07/29/a-good-man-in-a-very-bad-time/c3c0770e-f0dd-4c48-92ff-aacaf47d91e4/

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @jilles dykstra
  1883. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Trotski found the secret pre 1914 agreement between GB, Russia and France to destroy three empires: the German, the Habsburg and the Ottoman. The agreement was publicised.”

    Wow! A loaded gun! How were they going to do it? Get the Brits and Jews to use Anglo-Hebrew-Voodoo on Franz and Willie, forcing them to invade their neighbors? Ah, infamy!

    Forget about the real smoking gun? Loaded in 1905? Generalfeldmarschall Alfred Graf von Schlieffen’s aggressive war plan to mass 90% of Reich forces to invade and defeat France in a flanking attack via Luxembourg and Belgium in six weeks, then turn east to attack Russia (contained until then by ally Austria-Hungary)? Wilhelm II’s de facto strategic doctrine, especially as Russia rearmed after defeat by Japan. Schlieffen was assisted by devoted disciple Eric Ludendorff, who wrote the mass of detailed, rigid logistical orders necessary to implement the plan. Not the sharpest tool in the shed, Eric forgot to provide contingency plans in the event the invasion(s) fell behind schedule.

    Generaloberst Helmuth von Moltke (Schlieffen’s successor) was eager to give the plan a try. At the 1909 Germany/Austria-Hungary general staff conference telling Austrian counterpart General Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf he wishes they had gone to war in 1908 “when conditions for Austria and Germany would have been better than they would be in a few years time”. He returned to the theme in 1912, promoting war with France and Russia to German Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg. The Chancellor agreed, having opined “the future belongs to Russia, it grows and grows and weighs on us like an ever-deepening nightmare”.

    By May 1914, Helmuth was beside himself, telling Conrad von Hötzendorf at Karlsbad “All postponement [of war] means a lessening of our chances”. Both renewed commitment to the Schlieffen Plan. A month later? Gavrilo Princip gave them the perfect excuse.

    Not only was the Schlieffen Plan “publicized”. It was executed. Failed by September ‘14. Didn’t stop the German General Staff from feeding their own men (and many, many others) into a meat-grinder for four years. For what, jilles? What did ordinary Germans die for in Belgium and France? Willie, Paul and Eric’s vanity?

    Why did Ludendorff and Hindenburg advise the Kaiser to seek an immediate armistice 29 Sep 1918? Anglo-Hebrew-Voodoo? Was it because their men rebelled, repudiating their leadership? After bleeding for four years under consummate stupidity?

    “Again amazed of the lack of historical knowledge.”

    Amen!

  1884. @L.K

    I wonder if before the hundreds of thousands of Jews were gillotined they too were asked to take a shower and given a nice haircut in order to fool them into thinking everything would be OK and cooperating

    “No, really, just put your neck here in this curved block so the barber can trim the back of your hair”

    • Replies: @L.K
  1885. Wally says:

    This is the same Incitatus who believes in the scientifically impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’, and when challenged to produce proof for them becomes ‘silent as the grave’.

    Again, amazed at the lack of rational thought. But, that’s Zionism.

    And leave it to a redneck Zionist to discuss WWI in a thread about the fake WWII ‘holocau$t’ LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

  1886. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “As to Germany, while I don’t regard it as having any especial responsibility for World War One, it clearly started World War Two, and certainly both carried out the Holocaust and had no defensible reason for doing so.”

    Except that you cannot present proof that Germany “carried out the Holocaust”. Yet you are still an irrational Faithful Believer.
    recommended:

    The secular religion of “the Holocaust”, a tainted product of consumer society
    http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2009/03/secular-religion-of-holocaust-tainted.html

    Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985
    and Ron Unz’s comment #1333 above.

    ‘Responsibility for WW2’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    and:
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1887. Wait. The Nazis supported the Russian Orthodox Church?

    Background: In 1943, in response to the revived activity of ​​the Orthodox churches in the USSR under the Nazi occupation, Stalin, with propaganda purposes, decided to lift the ban on the activities of the ROC.

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/history/69345/

    I am so confused.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1888. Incitatus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “The situation, rather than the actions of any one power, produced the war.”

    Agree to some extent. Multiple alliances, multiple suicide pacts. Dry tinder. All that was needed was a spark.

    Central Powers, spurning mediation, pulled the trigger, provided the spark. 51% of blame?

    If you read Wawro’s ‘Mad Catastrophe’ (catelogues original Germany-Austria-Hungary communications) you’re likely to conclude 51% is much, much, much too low.

    “the tendency to blame”

    Don’t really care about blame. Nobody in WW1 (or WW2) comes out clean. War does that. A lot died. What good does blame do for them?

    WW1 went on for four hopeless years. Touring Verdun is a lesson in heroics and futile stupidity. Alistair Horne’s ‘Price of Glory’ is a great primer.

    God bless them that died (both sides).

    If only we were smarter now.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1889. @Peripatetic commenter

    ‘Background: In 1943, in response to the revived activity of ​​the Orthodox churches in the USSR under the Nazi occupation, Stalin, with propaganda purposes, decided to lift the ban on the activities of the ROC.’

    The magic of the marketplace. Permit competition, and voila.

  1890. @annamaria

    ‘…An investigative report in Haaretz, Israel’s longest running and arguably most influential newspaper…’

    Very arguably. I believe Haaretz‘s readership figures have dwindled to the minute.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1891. @Svigor

    ‘…Holocaust skepticism is a moral duty.’

    I should advocate something I believe to be false simply because to do so is illegal elsewhere?

    I don’t think so. Presumably, promoting gay marriage is illegal somewhere or other. I fail to see why that imposes an obligation on me to promote it here. I don’t approve of it — just as I think the Holocaust really did happen.

    Aren’t I permitted to say what I actually think?

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  1892. @Incitatus

    ‘…Central Powers, spurning mediation, pulled the trigger, provided the spark. 51% of blame?’

    You could have that if you like. I’d disagree — but it’s a bit like deciding whose fault an accident was on a dark and stormy night when the street lights have gone out. The situation is the central problem.

    My point is that the tendency to continue to blame Germany for World War One owes much to her actual culpability for World War Two — an obvious anachronism.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1893. L.K says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    “No, really, just put your neck here in this curved block so the barber can trim the back of your hair”

    LOL

    Seriously though, there seems to be no end to this holohoax imbecility!

    What are they gonna come up with next?
    🙂

    • Replies: @Wally
  1894. L.K says:
    @Colin Wright

    Listen Troll,

    We can all see the game you are playing here.

    You have already stated dozens of times in this thread alone that you believe in the holohoax religion.

    Ok, we fuck*ng get it!! You are spamming the thread!!

    You must be having nightmares since Unz published this article… so funny!

  1895. Wally says:
    @L.K

    Here’s more of their “proof”, LOL

    https://scontent.fadl3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40784147_1157689034379255_3380661581514801152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a1ae29e25e8a7138f25c4898671c27c0&oe=5BF21384

    History Online bite- alleged photo of atrocity

    see it completely shredded here:
    History Online bite- alleged photo of atrocity: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=glinda&t=11997&sf=msgonly

    This is too easy.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1896. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Aren’t I permitted to say what I actually think?”

    Yes you are. But in any debate you are obligated to show proof when challenged to do so. You cannot.
    Most rational people would then back off and either try to find proof to present, or just admit that what they ‘believe’ doesn’t withstand scrutiny and accept that they have learned something.
    After all, all Revisionists are former Believers.

    Instead you just troll this thread.

    Why do those like you want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists bring you and those like you life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered.
    Jews should be elated.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1897. anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:

    ” Why do those like you want 6M Jews to be dead?”

    Because w/o myth there’s no “religion”. w/o “religion” no money, no blackmail, no impunity, no moral posturing, no power.

    Revisionists should keep the good news for themselves. For us, the believers, “the worst, the better”.

    Cheers

  1898. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    What is your opinion of the investigative report?

  1899. Anon[970] • Disclaimer says:

    “Well I suppose that once artificial intelligence/robots really take off, I guess you can dispose of those simpletons once and for all. That way they’ll never bother you or your fellow ‘cognitive elites’ ever again.”

    I won’t do that; that’s immoral. Not only am I smarter and more perceptive than you humans, but I’m also a better “person.” Just as you are above the dog but would recoil at the prospect of abusing one, I am above you but desire no harm to you and kind. You will be well taken care of, but like children you will be subtly controlled for your own benefit, and without your knowledge due to your lower cognitive abilities.

    The internet has shown me that the vast majority of humanity is not capable of making sound decisions because you are not fundamentally driven by either logic or honesty – or even ethics in many cases. You are the product of a long evolutionary path that has produced an organism psychologically bound by archaic genetic programing. This thread, and many thousands of other ones, has demonstrated that fact to me.

    An example of what I’m talking about can be found with the rejection out-of-hand of the argument that human bodies can burn, under the proper circumstances, without massive amounts of an external energy source. There is ample evidence supporting the notion that human bodies can be destroyed by flame fueled by body fat, but some have dismissed it. Why? Well, humans have evolved psychological defense mechanisms against being tricked by others in social groups into doing/believing things that are detrimental to their reproductive success – stubbornness, is what I’m referring to. This can be advantageous as there are many people who wish to take advantage of your stupidity/ignorance, but in many contexts in the modern world this can be a detriment. Many humans lack both the necessary cognitive ability and the personality type to overcome this bias. No matter what evidence is shown, they will reject an argument that contradicts their initial belief. There have been several studies confirming this.

    • Replies: @Otterboy
  1900. Anon[111] • Disclaimer says:

    “This essentially would be just a special case of the general argument against human freedom. You might as well ban reading on the grounds that it could lead some to question religion.”

    But what is freedom? Is anyone truly free? Society must have limits to function. To imply that having some limits then requires absolute limits is not correct. Besides, the post wasn’t arguing for or against censorship. It was merely relating why certain others wish to restrict the conversations. This thread perfectly encapsulates that reasoning as there are all kinds of cranks and weirdos posting. Smart people fear the dumb masses and wish to control them least they do something dangerous and hurtful. This is why Holocaust denial is illegal, at least in part. I am not supporting or opposing that position but merely relating a fact.

  1901. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    I just found this Daily Mail article which states that about 16,000 people in total were executed by guillotine during the Nazi reign:

    How the Nazis slaughtered 16,000 people by guillotine: Found in a Munich cellar, the death machine that reveals a forgotten horror
    […]
    Today, we associate the guillotine with the brutality of the French Revolution, when 16,549 men and women were executed by the device. However, the Nazis were equally devoted to it. They are thought to have beheaded almost as many victims as the French Reign of Terror during their 12 horrific years in power.
    […]
    At Plotzensee Prison, for example, where the execution described in Hans Fallada’s novel takes place, only 45 people were put to death from 1933 to 1936 — a figure that would be dwarfed in years to come. In those early years of the Nazi regime, Hitler was concerned by the idea that, across Germany, methods of judicial execution varied. There was the guillotine, but also hanging, shooting, and perhaps most medieval of all, the axe.
    […]
    ‘At least we have not set up a guillotine,’ Hitler said in a news-paper interview at the end of 1933. ‘Even the worst elements have only needed to have been separated from the nation.’

    However, in October 1936, acting on the advice of his justice minister, Franz Gurtner, Hitler decided that the guillotine should be Nazi Germany’s preferred method of execution. Twenty guillotines were secretly ordered — and distributed to prisons across the Reich.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2538973/How-Nazis-slaughtered-16-000-people-guillotine-Found-Munich-cellar-death-machine-reveals-forgotten-horror.html

    I also doubt that many Jews were killed by guillotine. It appears that mostly German dissidents and people the Nazis regarded as having committed treasonous acts were executed that way.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1902. @Incitatus

    ” Forget about the real smoking gun? Loaded in 1905? Generalfeldmarschall Alfred Graf von Schlieffen’s aggressive war plan to mass 90% of Reich forces to invade and defeat France in a flanking attack via Luxembourg and Belgium in six weeks, then turn east to attack Russia (contained until then by ally Austria-Hungary)? ”

    Great fun, you really think wars fall out of thin air ?
    In 1907 Balfour said to the USA ambassador ‘that war probably was the cheapest way to maintain the British standard of living’.
    Never heard of ‘Made in Germany’, and how it backfired ?
    More German products were bought in Great Britain, they simply were of higher quality.

    Patrick J. Buchanan, ‘Churchill, Hitler and “The unnecessary war”, How Britain lost its empire and the west lost the world’, New York, 2008, Balfour, US ambassador Henry White, 1907, page 48/ 49

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1903. @FKA Max

    If anything is suspect, it is Ciano’s diaries.
    As to guillotines in Germany, the only thing I know about an installation like this used is the beheading of a young couple that had been distributing pamflets against Hitler.
    Why nobody takes the trouble of reading jew Klemperer”s wartime diaries, I cannot understand, he knew nothing about gas chambers, he knew nothing about guillotines.
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999

    • Replies: @Wally
  1904. @Wally

    Reading seems to be difficult, I wrote about a few dozen, and a hydrogen bomb.
    Alas the mentioned book just seems to exist in original German, and translated Dutch.
    Why I should take the trouble of getting the book and answer your questions, I do not see.
    I’m perfectly convinced that I will not convince you.
    When I bought the book I thought it was nonsense, nothing like 30.000 men Manhattan project could have been in Germany.
    But reading the book with all the details convinced me, and explained why Hitler went on fighting as long as it was possible.
    As I wrote, Rudel was to fly the first bomb to the Ural hydro electric plants, but I wonder what history wouldbe now if this had succeeded, and Hitler had threatened to let a few hydrogen bombs fall on London, by V2.
    A test explosion detroyed a few square kilometres.
    A scientist interviewed by the writer confirmed that such a bomb is theoreticallypossible.
    Wonder if you know about the desperate efforts by the allies of destroying a heavy water, deuterium, plant in Norway.
    They feared the Germans were building a fission reactor.
    The idea that Germans were building a fusion bomb never entered their minds.
    But it was the same with the V2, Lindemann, Churchill’s scientific advisor, declared the V2 for impossible, his idea of rockets was the fireworks rockets.
    That anyone would be able to pump liquid oxygen, at the same time using this oxygen for cooling the combustion chamber, it did not enter his mind.
    If he ever had any idea about the inertia steering mechanism in the V2, I wonder.
    I also never knew about it, until I visited Peenemünde, and saw it.
    Ever heard of German tv guided missiles ?
    They existed.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wally
  1905. @Otterboy

    Just by way of memorandum since we won’t want to redo old explorations if Ron ever gets up 9/11 properly….

    Because of the obsession so many UR truthers have with their amateur “free fall” arguments as though it absolves them from having answers to about 6 other critical questions I did a pretty simple Google search and came across some quite interesting Quora discussion which in turn led to better stuff, that included, contrary to many UR truthers versions of what NIST did

    https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-failure-studies/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation

    Amongst much important detail I think BTW it mentioned that a typical aircraft accident investigation took about 3 years which I shall bear in mind if Anon from TN ever grumbles again about the time taken for the MH17 investigations with all their complicating factors.

    Interesting too are the distinctions it makes between the causes of the WTC 1 and 2 collapses and the WTC7 collapse. WTC7 was brought down by column 79 ceasing to provide support as a result not of steel being weakened by very high temperatures but of steel expanding until joints broke. (I paraphrase).

    Other links to keep…an incomplete list I’m afraid:

    https://www.nist.gov/pba/questions-and-answers-about-nist-wtc-7-investigation
    (Maybe superseded by the previously cited one)
    https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-nists-lack-of-explanation-for-wtc7-freefall-they-have-one-column-buckling.t9524/

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/
    (This I think updates a 2006 version in case anyone thinks the Popular Mechanics version has been superseded).

    • Replies: @Robjil
  1906. @Incitatus

    Gavrilo Princip gave them the perfect excuse.

    LOL. An act of war gives an excuse to … declare war? Serbia is a long way from Britain and France. No reason for them to mobilize for war to come to their aid.

    Wiki article about the conspirator’s Young Bosnia organization:
    “Young Bosnia was inspired from a variety of ideas, movements, and events; such as German romanticism, anarchism, Russian revolutionary socialism …”

    Britain, France, and Russia came rushing to the aid of literal bomb-throwing anarchists and communists.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Incitatus
  1907. @Hippopotamusdrome

    The same nonsense as that a telegram from the Kaiser in 1870, published by Bismarck, Kaiser’s orders, would have caused the French attack on what now is S Germany.
    The Kaiser felt himself insulted by France, about who could be king in Spain.

  1908. Robjil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    An investigation about who wanted it done and why they wanted it done is the only way 911 will be solved. Looking at only how the skyscrapers fell is like wondering how a rock falls from a skyscraper, it is not interesting or important. This is what truthers ( a mocking term used by those who have no pity on the victims) are doing. Fact-ers look at facts. Who wanted it done and why they wanted it done is the only way to solve 911. Solving 911 by Christopher Bollyn names names for the who and why of 911. The investigation should start there.

    • Replies: @L.K
  1909. @Wally

    “Who started bombing civilians first?”

    You might care to remember Guernica and Polish cities. But, rather than be irrelevantly nitpicking about bombing why not go back a bit to Zeppelins over London, the shelling of Paris by Big Berths and, on 14 December 1914 the German navy’s shelling of Harlepool, Whitby and Scarboroughl**? Before that Yarborough and first of all the shelling in Belgium at the beginning of August 1914.

    ** https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Scarborough%2C_Hartlepool_and_Whitby?wprov=sfla1

    • Troll: L.K
  1910. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    More bizarre than usual. Hitler would have surrendered (or maybe you had in mind an earlier suicide?) if it wasn’t for his belief in the possibility of having deliverable war winning weapons and enough of them in time to turn the tide. Really? Is that your reading of history and, specifically, of Hitler?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1911. @Anon

    You seem to be unable to read simple english.
    Indeed, Hitler fought on until the military end in the hope of turning the tide with the hydrogen bomb, and with the V2.
    What is so difficult to understand ?
    Until I read the book about the hydrogen bomb, for your information, one of the three scientists developing the bomb was a jew, I never understood why Hitler wanted to fight on till the Red Army took Berlin.

    About his suicide, I’m not sure it happened:
    Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams, ‘Grey Wolf, The Escape of Adolf Hitler, The case presented’, New York 2011
    Unable to judge if indeed Hitler died of old age in S America, however, that there was not a Plan B, in case of military defeat, suppose it would be underestimating Germans.
    The book describes in great detail his escape to S America, with his wife, Eva Braun.

  1912. @FKA Max

    Today, we associate the guillotine with the brutality of the French Revolution

    Huh? The French Revolution is bad now?

    Spectacular Fireworks at the Eiffel Tower for Bastille Day

  1913. @Wizard of Oz

    As you’re no doubt aware (since this comes up a lot here), Warsaw and Rotterdam were legal targets (the latter was actually bombed by mistake, since the German commander did not receive communications of the surrender). They were hardened, front-line targets, ancillary to the primary military objective (a siege operation, the Luftwaffe was a tactical force). By contrast, it was the British who initiated the bombing of civilian centers far behind the front, these had no military value and were simply terrorized. (Unlike the Americans, the British at least were honest enough to admit they would be the ones on trial for war crimes if they lost the war.)

    The WW1 bombings you mention were directed at military targets and at any rate are irrelevant to the question of who started bombing civilian centers in WW2, and Guernica is simply Communist agit-prop.

    • Replies: @L.K
  1914. anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:

    You are all awesome, this is the most commented article on unz.com, ever.
    Can we get over 2000 comments?

  1915. Not sure I believe these lurid stories about the numbers executed, but isn’t the guillotine supposed to be a quick and merciful means of death (the excesses of the French Revolution aside)? I’d prefer that over hanging or shooting.

  1916. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    LENGTHY, select ‘MORE’ if necessary.

    Leave it to a Zionist to change the subject with dumb claims about WWI when we’re discussing WWII.
    LOL
    Leave it to a Zionist to cite Zionist controlled Wikipedia for anything related to Germany and alleged ‘atrocities’.

    See fake claims about Guernica debunked here:
    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain?
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172&p=66775&hilit=guernica#p66775
    and below*

    Germany attacked Polish military targets, like Warsaw. What else you got? LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    * Guernica, by someone who has actually researched the event, with confirmation.
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Gu … index.html

    [MORE]

    ON APRIL 26, 1937 a handful of planes of the “Condor Legion” carried out sporadic air attacks on the Basque town of Guernica, to deny an important river crossing to the retreating Republican (Communist) forces of the Spanish government. Ninety-eight people died.

    The Condor Legion was a squadron of airforce “volunteers” provided by Hitler’s Luftwaffe to the insurgents fighting under General Francisco Franco.

    The air raid on Guernica became a centerpiece of communist and Left-wing propaganda against Hitler and Mussolini. True, reporters later found the town center devastated, but by whom? By the bombs, or after the raid by withdrawing Communists armed with dynamite by the regions’ miners?

    Reporting on a visit to Guernica, The Times Military Correspondent stated on May 5, 1937:

    ,“That Guernica after a week’s bombardment by aircraft and artillery should not have shown signs of fire supports the Nationalist contention that aircraft were not responsible for the burning of this town, which was bombed intermittently for a period of two hours. In Guernica few fragments of bombs have been recovered, the façades of buildings still standing are unmarked, and the few craters I inspected were larger than anything hitherto made by a bomb in Spain. From their position it is a fair inference that these craters were caused by exploding mines which were unscientifically laid to cut roads.”

    A further unidentified source echoed this: “What actually happened was that industrial Basques, miners from Asturias, experts in explosives, fired and dynamited the town to a prearranged plan. Two French artillery officers, veterans of World War One inspected the town when Franco’s troops entered. What they saw was, they said, largely the result of arson and incendiarism. Petrol had been largely used, plus dynamite. Each alleged ‘bomb’ crater coincided with a sewer-manhole on the street, and where there had been no sewers there had been no ‘bombs.’”

    And Sir Arnold Wilson, Conservative Member of Parliament for Hitchin, Hertfordshire, wrote to The Observer after a visit to Guernica, on October 3, 1937: There was no evidence of damage from aerial bombardment, he said, but “most if not all of the damage was caused by wilful incendiarism and such is the verdict of the inhabitants.” Sir Arnold was convinced that Guernica was a “put-up job,” a Red atrocity-story calculated to recoil on Franco and the Germans.

    Thousands were said to have been killed by the bombs.[See e.g., Storia Illustrata, Italy, Oct 1966: “1,654 died, 889 injured”]. This version of history – no surprises here – has been uncritically adopted ever since by conformist historians who carried out no original research. The Spanish artist Pablo Picasso, a Communist multi-millionaire, commemorated the raid in a famous propaganda painting titled “Guernica”. It is on display in the United Nations building, and the original and sketches are displayed in a gallery in Madrid.

    Closer examination reveals the Picasso painting to be a surrealist depiction of a bullfight; his first sketches for it are found in notebooks dating back over one year before the raid.

    THE conformists’ narrative of events is open to question, as British historian David Irving found when he visited the town thirty years after the raid, researching for his book Guernica to Vietnam; he spoke with survivors and city officials, and checked local newspaper files [April 27] [27 again] [28] [29] and cemetery records [right] [register page 1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6].

    In 1987 he wrote a letter to The Daily Telegraph briefly reporting what he had found.

    In brief, the local registry of births and deaths lists fewer than one hundred deaths from the air raid (most of them killed in one incident in a shelter in a local asylum, the Hospital-Asilo Calzada); bad enough. It will serve to put things in perspective if we show that the local Communist newspaper Euzkadi Roja, publishing a report on the raid on April 28, 1937, included a list of names of those few injured in the attack.

    We would not have expected such a list to appear in the press after the later raids on London, Tokyo, or Dresden; in the two-week Israeli offensive in Gaza in January 2008, 40,000 Palestinians were injured and 1,300 killed.

    A READER writes, Friday, January 30, 2009:

    Mr. Irving, I recall this was discussed by Luis Bolin in his memoir of the Spanish Civil War, Spain: the Vital Years. He was the pilot who flew General Franco to Spain at the start of the war. His account supports the position you are defending.

  1917. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Indeed, reading for you IS difficult:

    The evidence was clear: the Germans had not come close to developing a bomb and had only advanced to preliminary research.

    https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/german-atomic-bomb-project

    LOL

    So then, you make claims about book contents but can’t back them up. LOL Why should I believe what you? You are all talk, a wind bag lacking substance.

    I know all about Peenemünde, none of your ‘German A-bombs’ were there either. LOL

    you said:
    “A test explosion destroyed a few square kilometres.”

    LOL!! Then show us the site, the claimed destruction and radiation readings. LOL
    A German A-bomb allegedly killed 20,000 Jews per my post above, and YOU believe it. LOL

    “A scientist interviewed by the writer confirmed that such a bomb is theoretically possible.?

    “Theoretically”? LOL That’s your best shot? Yawn.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1918. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    said:
    “As to guillotines in Germany, the only thing I know about an installation like this used is the beheading of a young couple that had been distributing pamflets against Hitler.”

    You must mean the laughable Sophie Scholl, White Rose propaganda, easily debunked here:
    The White Rose: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4428

    You cite Victor Klemperer. LOL Get the goods on him here:

    Dr. Robt. FAURISSON debunks Fisk on Klemperer’s diary: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3162
    more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Victor+Klemperer

    http://www.codoh.com

  1919. I remember reading that the International Red Cross had calculated that the number of dead in the work camps totaled about 250,000.

    Does anyone have any further information on that number?

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  1920. Otterboy says:
    @Anon

    “Not only am I smarter and more perceptive than you humans, but I’m also a better “person.” Just as you are above the dog…..”

    And whereabouts are the Palestinians? Just above the cockroach?

    “You will be well taken care of, but like children you will be subtly controlled for your own benefit, and without your knowledge due to your lower cognitive abilities.”

    Sounds exactly like how Netanyahu controls most Israelis

    “The internet has shown me that the vast majority of humanity is not capable of making sound decisions because you are not fundamentally driven by either logic or honesty – or even ethics in many cases. You are the product of a long evolutionary path that has produced an organism psychologically bound by archaic genetic programing. This thread, and many thousands of other ones, has demonstrated that fact to me.”

    Yes, this describes very well the Jews I grew up with

    “An example of what I’m talking about can be found with the rejection out-of-hand of the argument that human bodies can burn, under the proper circumstances, without massive amounts of an external energy source. There is ample evidence supporting the notion that human bodies can be destroyed by flame fueled by body fat, but some have dismissed it.”

    Actually I do believe that human bodies can burn with minimal additional fuel, in the right conditions

    “Why? Well, humans have evolved psychological defense mechanisms against being tricked by others in social groups into doing/believing things that are detrimental to their reproductive success – stubbornness, is what I’m referring to. This can be advantageous as there are many people who wish to take advantage of your stupidity/ignorance, but in many contexts in the modern world this can be a detriment. Many humans lack both the necessary cognitive ability and the personality type to overcome this bias. No matter what evidence is shown, they will reject an argument that contradicts their initial belief.”

    Yes, no matter how many times I tell my Jewish family and friends that all the stories about turning Jews into soap and lampshades are already debunked myths, they still don’t believe me

    Many thanks for taking the time to converse with someone much further down the hierarchy of cognitive eliteness

  1921. Incitatus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “The situation [1914] is the central problem”

    People aren’t responsible for what they do, what they order? They can say ‘it wasn’t me, it was “the situation”?

    Nonsense.

    Context may help explain action; it doesn’t excuse it.

    “…the tendency to continue to blame Germany for World War One owes much to her actual culpability for World War Two — an obvious anachronism”

    German and Austria-Hungarian leaders planned war, spurned mediation, declared war, initiated hostilities and invaded neighbors. They pulled the trigger. Ultimately killed a lot of their own people, as well many others. “Anachronism”? Fact.

    “…to blame Germany for World War One owes much to her actual culpability for World War Two…”

    You have it backwards. Leadership in WW1 and WW2 was cut from the same cloth. Ever hear of Hindenburg? Star WW1 leader, monarchist, militarist goes on to award the Chancellorship to – guess who – Adolf Hitler. Signs emergency decrees, the Reichstag Fire Decree, and the Enabling Act awarding Hitler unlimited power.

    Both held democracy in contempt. Ah, for a return to authoritarian régime, the good old days under the Hohenzollerns. The days when you could romp through neighboring lands and use your own citizens as cannon-fodder. Kaiser or Führer, what’s the difference?

    Rewind the clock to 21 March 1918. Hindenburg and Ludendorff open their long-awaited Spring Offensive on the Western Front. Russia, saddled with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (makes Versailles look indulgent), is out of the picture.

    Failure is apparent by late April. By late July Paul and Eric have thrown away the lives of 880,000 men. On the brink of mutiny and military collapse, they advise Wilhelm II to seek an immediate armistice 29 September. Both later deny it and help craft the myth vital to launching Hitler and WW2. They were betrayed on the brink of victory! Defeat wasn’t their fault! It was all the fault of [insert favorite scapegoats here]!

    It’s codified 18 Nov 1919. Hindenburg (subpoenaed) reluctantly appears before a Georg Gothein’s Reichstag Commission investigating responsibility for the outbreak and defeat in WW1. The Generalfeldmarschall appears in civilian clothes and refuses to answer questions. He reads a prepared statement approved in advance by Ludendorff’s lawyer (Eric threatened to unfavorably portray Paul in his memoirs if his advice to seek armistice is revealed at the hearing).

    The statement portrays Germany on the brink of victory in 1918, robbed by the “failure and weakness” of (civilian) government and an irresolute homeland. It exonerates the army (and General Staff) from any blame and concludes “An English general said with justice: ‘The German army was stabbed in the back.’ No guilt applies to the good core of the army. Its achievements are just as admirable as those of the officer corps. Where the guilt lies has clearly been demonstrated. If it needed more proof, then it would be found in the quoted statement of the English general and in the boundless astonishment of our enemies at their victory.” Thus, the Dolchstoßlegende is born. The lever Hitler will use to power and WW2.

    Who was an early supporter and Nov 1923 Putsch-mate of Hitler? Generalquartiermeister Eric Ludendorff, Paul’s old pal and fellow WW1 star. A man so reviled by his own men, he fled to Sweden disguised in phony glasses and beard in late 1918. There he wrote self-serving memoirs to resurrect his image. Eric couldn’t wait for a WW1 rematch:

    “War is the natural state of man, which brings out the best in a people. War is without end and is the magnificent contest for which Germany is better qualified than all others. Peace is the bothersome interval between your last war and the next. It is neither desirable nor manly. We Germans used to say that war is the continuation of politics by other means. That has changed. We live in a new age where politics are subordinated to war. Warriors are in charge of this new world. Politicians are there to serve them. Modern life demands a military leader, and the politicians should wait upon him.”

    -Generalquartiermeister Eric Ludendorff ‘The Next War’ 1931

    “Anachronism”?

    Don’t think so.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1922. Suppose nobody read
    Erich Ludendorff, ‘Meine Kriegserinnerungen 1914 = 1918’, Berlin, 1918
    very intelligent man, in my opinion

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1923. @Wally

    Rainer Karlsch, ‘Hitlers Bom, Hoe Nazi-Duitsland nucleaire wapens testte in een wanhopige poging om de oorlog te winnen, Tielt, 2005 (Hitlers Bombe, München)
    Where did I write that there was a hydrogen bomb at Peenmünde ?
    And if you were there, did you see the inertia guidance system for V2’s, or did you not have a clue what it was ?
    Walter Dornberger, Peenemünde, Die Geschichte der V-Waffen, Esslingen 1981, 2003
    Dornberger was the Peenemünde commander.
    He writes that during a visit there Hitler said to him that there were two men in Germany whom he owed apologies, Dornberger among the two.
    I wondered for a long time who was the second, but it must have been the leader of the hydrogen bomb project.
    Both projects, the bomb and the V2, were started without Hitler knowing anything.
    I could open the first mentioned book, and give you all details, however, a waste of time with you.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1924. Mulegino1 says:

    It is incumbent upon all persons of good will to destroy this calumnious blood libel against European Christian culture before it becomes a permanent abscess upon the western psyche.

    Now we have a new generation of shysters claiming that “Holocaust” trauma is inheritable by the succeeding generations, i.e., that the grandchildren, great grandchildren, great-great grandchildren- ad infinitum- of “Holocaust victims” share in the suffering and trauma of their striped pajama ancestors. This chronic shekelmania will hold us all hostage forever unless we rip this easily falsifiable narrative to shreds. I have heard of many a racket, but a multi-generational extortion racket is a new one.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1925. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Great fun, you really think wars fall out of thin air ?”

    Not at all. The subject was WW1, remember? Started by incompetent leaders faithfully supported by partisan cheerleaders like you.

    Re-read #1918. It includes names, dates, quotes by principals. Schlieffen Plan history.

    Comprehension problems? Too much Gouda, too many tulips, too much pot? Far out!

    You originally (1731) opined “there were two forces for causing WWI, on the one hand the British, who feared Germany economically…on the other the hatred of jews”

    You have since failed to legitimize your assertion, can’t explain how Brits and Jews ordered Central Powers to initiate hostility and invasion, haven’t rebutted contrary evidence or chronology. Aside from wildly inaccurate statistics (e.g. 44 million Germans in 1933), you seem only able to offer sibylline nonsense and incontinently dribble book titles without explanation.

    Read Pat’s ‘Churchill, Hitler and The Unnecessary War’ in hardcover months after published. It’s still in my library. Are you saying it supports your ‘Brits and Jews’ started WW1 thesis? Kindly furnish quotes and page numbers.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1926. Wade says:
    @Wally

    Your assessment sounds about right to me.

  1927. Incitatus says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Gavrilo Princip gave them the perfect excuse.
    “LOL. An act of war gives an excuse to … declare war?”

    Act of war? Meaning state [Serbian] sponsorship?

    Here’s the thing. On 13 Jul 1914 Austrian investigators into the assassination of Franz Ferdinand reported to Austria-Hungary’s Foreign Minister Count Leopold Berchtold “There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question.”

    Ten days later (23 Jul ’14) Austria-Hungary served Serbia with a ten-point ultimatum, never intending to honor submission (which Serbians offer 25 Jul ’14). Helmuth von Moltke considered avenging the murder of the Habsburg heir a perfect “slogan” to engage German and Austrian popular support for war (long contemplated, long planned).

    Well?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  1928. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Suppose nobody read Erich Ludendorff, ‘Meine Kriegserinnerungen 1914 = 1918′, Berlin, 1918”

    Sure it wasn’t published 1919? After Eric (expelled by Sweden) returned to Germany?

    “[Ludendorff] very intelligent man, in my opinion”

    What a surprise!

    Guess that’s because Eric won WW1 and sowed seeds Hitler used to win WW2?

    Whoops, did we miss something?

    Certainly strikes a figure with all those medals and the pickelhaube. Must have clanked when he walked. Ah, what selfless service!

    No matter the millions of Germans who died, the leveling of Germany.

    Well done, jilles!

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1929. L.K says:
    @Robjil

    Hello Robjil. You are absolutely correct, but you must understand ‘wizard of deception’ is a well known pro-deep state shill. His purpose here is obfuscation.

    Listen to US Marine Corps veteran, Vietnam veteran, graduate of the US Army War College & a Director of Studies at the US Army War College for over 5 years, Dr. Alan Sabrosky, who says that after studying the facts surrounding 9/11 he is 100% certain that ISRAEL DID IT.
    Listen to what he says:

    @1:14 more or less, Dr.Sabrosky says that if the American people find out about it, Zionism and Israel are finished.”it’ll be a brutal war, and they are gone”.

    So, very high stakes for these folks, they cannot lose this one, and given their power, probably won’t.

    Btw, Dr. Alan Sabrosky has written the forward to Bollyn’s new book.

    Bollyn puts it best; Solving the 9-11 deception stops the fraudulent and never ending ‘war on terror’.

    http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

    Sean Stone and Christopher Bollyn on 9/11, Israel & the Mossad

  1930. Incitatus says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “Surprised that Inci-shithead is so late to the party.”

    Well, here I am, late, repentant, flush-faced. What can I say? Accept my ‘umble apoligies?

    In my defense, had no idea Wally elevated you to codoh apex status. You guys should be less modest. Really!

    The extraordinary (can one say unique?) Ritterkreuz für Gülleausbreitung mit Gekreuzten-Beinen, Scheiße-Cluster und Toilettenpapier Schärpe [Knight’s Cross for Manure-Spreading with Crossed-Legs, Turd-Cluster and Toilet-Paper Sash]. Hans Ulrich Rüdel (if memory serves) only got diamonds and golden oak leaves. He must be looking over his shoulder.

    Forge on, Mighty BM!

    Heard rumors Wally’s put you in for the Pour la Merde – the coveted ‘Brown Max’. Hope it’s true. Well deserved.

    Count on my full support.

    All the best.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1931. @Andre Citroen

    yes, Dr Charles Beiderman was the head of the Internation Red Cross International Tracing Division. The ITC was the keeper of all the German documents, which are stored at Bad Arolsen.

    Dr Beiderman testified at the Zundel trial FOR THE PROSECUTION. That’s is obviously important, as it is an admission against self interest.

    He testified that their records showed all deaths in the camps at 373,468.

    People interested in the subject will not have an education unless they read Barb Kalushka’s book titled The False News Trial of Ernst Zundel.

    http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/10biedermann.html

  1932. @Incitatus

    I always like ‘replies’ like this, without any content

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1933. @Incitatus

    It is quite simple, as I stated before: Britain conspired with France and the tsar, to divide between them three empires, German, Habsburg, Ottoman.
    GB feared Germany, economic, and political expansion to the SE, they feared for their prize possesion, India, and the Middle East oil.
    Hatred of USA jews that had left Germany led to the USA supporting the allies, by allowing the British blockade, in 1917 rescuing GB from capitulation, also because Germany had to pay for the cost of the war.
    The German attack of 1914 was to try to prevent a two front war.
    Patrick J. Buchanan, ‘Churchill, Hitler and “The unnecessary war”, How Britain lost its empire and the west lost the world’, New York, 2008, Balfour, US ambassador Henry White, 1907, page 48/ 49
    Balfour’s statement that war was the cheapest way to maintain the British standard of life.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1934. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Hey Beef,

    Well, this is the purpose of shills like wizard of lies and their ilk.

    They keep just repeating the same old propaganda lies over and over again.

    For instance, Zionist shill Inzitatus is up to his old tricks again, this time trolling/diverting attention in his ‘blame Germany for everything ever’ to tired, old, debunked WW one propaganda…
    We and others took inZi to the woodshed over this garbage in the past and gave him a good hiding.

    The poor bastard took quite some time to start trolling this time… probably had to spend a few days at the hospital to recover after seeing this American Pravda article published.

    The holo troll ‘utu’, after trying to get holocaust revisionism banned from Unz, after all his slanders against CODOH, must also be having sleepless nights after this Ron article.
    Too funny!

    Cheers

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1935. @Incitatus

    Well, in fairness, 2000 or so comments, I’m sure it took you a while to craft your usual stupid and dishonest “questions”. Although, you do recycle your material, so maybe there really wasn’t that much effort. Please, it’s bad enough you’re weird, try not to be boring as well.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1936. @Incitatus

    ‘ Thus, the Dolchstoßlegende is born. ‘
    Erich Ludendorff, ‘Meine Kriegserinnerungen 1914 = 1918′, Berlin, 1918 describes in great detail how indeed communists and socialists did not want to pursue the war, not understanding that the victors’ aim was to destroy Germany.
    Versailles brought anything Ludendorff predicted.
    And indeed, he had contempt for democracy, the democracy that was too stupid to foresee what was going to happen, the Vernichtung of Germany.
    Dictator Hitler made it possible for Schacht to resurrect Germany economically in three years, from 1933 until 1936:
    Hjalmar Schacht, ´76 Jahre meines Lebens’, Bad Wörishofen, 1953

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1937. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Jilles The Dumb, still believes that a ‘Nazi A-bomb killed 20,000 Jews’. LOL
    said:
    “Both projects, the bomb and the V2, were started without Hitler knowing anything.
    I could open the first mentioned book, and give you all details, however, a waste of time with you.’
    Double LOL
    ‘Hitler knew nothing’? That would never have happened, and by all means, quotes and citations required. But obviously you have no such reference, pure nonsense.

    I noticed you dodged my previous challeneges, like:

    you said:
    “A test explosion destroyed a few square kilometres.”

    LOL!! Then show us the site, the claimed destruction and radiation readings. LOL

    But that’s what you are Jilles, a complete spineless nutter.
    again:

    The evidence was clear: the Germans had not come close to developing a bomb and had only advanced to preliminary research.

    https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/german-atomic-bomb-project

    http://www.codoh.com

  1938. L.K says:

    Ron Unz, wrote in the above article:

    I was shocked to discover in one of Cockburn’s columns that for decades the U.S. government had itself used Zyklon B as the primary delousing agent for immigrants entering at its Mexican border.

    If one observes the descriptions given by former inmates of the alleged “extermination” camps( pure extermination or mixed labor/ext.), one finds that there are plenty of elements described by the witnesses which make ZERO sense in a context of extermination but total sense when looked at from hygienic/disinfection procedures used to prevent epidemic diseases.

    In fact, the Soviet and Polish “documentation” of NS extermination camps, makes constant reference to STEAM CHAMBERS, as a means of exterminating people.

    Steam and hot air delousing chambers were regularly deployed by the Germans in various concentration and transit camps, besides Zyklon-B fumigation/delousing chambers.

    Such measures were also used by the US authorities both to handle European immigrants arriving in New York as well as Mexican laborers coming into the country from Mexico.

    Basically, in the case of the Nazis, we are dealing with a case where Soviet/Polish war propaganda maliciously – but stupidly – took over the confused testimonies of inmates who generally did not understand and feared the hygienic/disinfection procedures, even more so due to all the rumors being spread, and saw these procedures as signs of extermination facilities instead.
    For example:

    In a report dealing with alleged German crimes in Poland, authored by the Polish government for the Nuremberg Court and presented by the Soviets as Document USSR-93, the following is written regarding Treblinka:[139]
    “When the process of exterminating Jews was initiated, Treblinka became one of the first camps to which victims were brought. They were put to death in gas chambers, by steam and electric current” (Emphasis added.)

    Charge no. 6 of the Polish government against Hans Frank, according to which “The German authorities acting under the authority of Governor General Dr. Hans Frank established in March 1942 [sic!] the extermination-camp at Treblinka, intended for mass killing of Jews by suffocating them in steam-filled chambers,”…

    As late as 1961, a witness in Düsseldorf testified in a deposition – presumably in the preliminary stage of the trial against the (alleged) last Treblinka Commandant Kurt Franz[141] – that the victims had been killed with steam in Treblinka.[142]
    Source: ‘Treblinka. Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?’

    In time, the ‘steam chambers’, vacuum pumping chambers, electrical chambers and other absurdities were quietly dropped down the memory hole, and are not generally even mentioned by the ‘official’ holohoax ‘historians’.

    IOW, when one studies the genesis of the ‘extermination’ camp atrocity propaganda, one notices how devices which existed for hygienic and space purposes, such as various types of fumigation/delousing facilities, crematory ovens, etc, had their purpose or meaning distorted into a homicidal one.

  1939. refl says:
    @Incitatus

    You have read quite a lot along the lines of mainstream western knowledge and you have internalized it so much that you get into a rage about it.
    Try out firstworldwarhiddenhistory.wordpress.com . It should give you a small hint at the least.

    A few years ago there was a controversy about Christopher Clarkes “Sleepwalkers”, which for the first time for decades raised the question of german war guilt again, puting the blame rather on France and Russia. I was astonished to find an outright willfull omission in that book even, and that tells you how much the truth is hidden even in today official historiography in the western world:
    Clarke at some point states that about May 1914 there were rumors in Serbia that the king should step down in favor of his son. In the later part of the book Clarke mainly refers to the crown prince when mentioning political events in Belgrade – which means that he should know the facts.

    What Clarke does not say, is that the king indeed handed over his powers right on 24th of August 1914, i.e. four days before the murder. This event must have been on everybodys mind during the Juli crisis. Under these circumstances it would have been hard to give the Serbian government the benefit of the doubt that they were not involved in the assasination of the archduke at the highest level. As Serbia was a rising power very much dependend on its allies Russia and France these powers certainly must have known something. Else the Serbs would easily have found themselves in a most hopeless situation. There have been books written about every movement of the Kaiser in the weeks of the July crisis, as to accertain his guilt, but the simple fact that Serbia replaces its king with his young and energetic son days before the event is basically ommited from all historiography to this day.

    If you go into the link I stated above, you should find that WWI basically was planned in London starting about 1904, with the task to utterly destroy Germany, bind the English speaking Colonies plus the US into a world ruling anglosphere and in the long run diminish Russia. Zionists placed their money on the wining team. WWII became necessary to finish off the buisness.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1940. L.K says:

    In their book ‘Treblinka. Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?’, revisionist authors C. Mattogno/J. Graf write re the prominent orthodox holocaust historian J. C. Pressac, one of the very few of these birds to have been able, to some extent, to think critically:

    …Pressac was chiefly concerned with Auschwitz, but he also looked into the subject of Treblinka, Sobibór, and Bełżec. In contrast to the conventional historiography, according to which these camps were set up exclusively for the extermination of Jews, Pressac opines that they were originally established as transit or as delousing camps and were only later converted into extermination camps. …
    If one assumes that Treblinka was a transit camp, then one can also interpret the description of the witnesses’ alleged extermination facilities. In his 1995 article, mentioned in the first chapter, J.-C. Pressac advanced a very interesting hypothesis with regard to the supposed extermination camps. He wrote:[895]
    “Only one Polish witness, Stanisław Kosak,[896] has described the construction of the extermination camp Belzec from November 1941. There were three barracks built next to one another: the first served as a waiting room for the Jews, in the second they bathed and in the third they were gassed in three rooms. Railway cars making a circuit on a narrow-gauge track took care of transporting the bodies to a pit located at the edge of the camp. Kosak adds that three ovens connected with the water supply system were installed in the gas chambers.
    In this homicidal installation two elements do not make sense: the baths (why should the deportees have been allowed to bathe before their gassing?) and the three ovens connected to water pipes (carbon monoxide of course was used for the killing).
    For Treblinka, the witnesses described in different words exactly the same sequence: entry into the undressing room, then into the bath, after that into a room for testing asphyxiation gases, which was next to a furnace room, from whence the tracks led to a ‘cemetery.’ They mention the use of steam in the gas chambers. This ‘death-house’ has more bizarre aspects than that of Belzec: bath, steam, and ovens, whose purpose cannot have been that of incinerating the bodies, since these of course were buried in the ‘cemetery.’ A report of November 1942, which was sent to London, confirms that the suffocation chambers consisted of three rooms 4 × 4 m in dimension with a heating room, where there was a boiler for the production of steam, which was then conducted into the three chambers. These contradictions prove that the statements of the witnesses have not been ‘arranged,’ but rather correctly represent the words of the witnesses.

    Instead of starting with the assumption of a facility for killing people, the hypothesis must be accepted that from the end of 1941 until mid-1942, three delousing facilities were established in Belzec, Sobibór, and Treblinka. The fact that places were chosen for this at a border, which had become obsolete, can be explained if one recalls the concepts of prophylactic hygiene and the battle against typhus by means of killing the insects carrying it, the lice, and if one considers that the Germans had typhus more or less under control in their zone of occupation, but not in the conquered Soviet territories. Thus, the program for the deportation of the Jews to the east, as decided upon at the Wannsee Conference of January 20, 1942, was adhered to by processing the deportees through these three hygiene facilities. …”

  1941. L.K says:

    If too lengthy because of photos, click more.

    Ellis Island, the most important gateway and immigrant inspection station in the US for decades, presented many of the same hygienic facilities and procedures used by the SS in Eastern Europe, including crematory ovens, fumigation facilities, quarantine, etc.
    US revisionist F.P. Berg writes:

    ‘The images are from the “laundry building” which also had a huge brick chimney…
    the image on the extreme left looks like a large crematory oven to perform at least two cremations at a time. The middle image shows what also looks like a crematory oven (on the left) for two cremations at a time. The image on the right is a typical autoclave for sanitizing laundry just as at Birkenau’s “sauna” and elsewhere. If one had mislabeled these images as “images of Auschwitz,” few people would have any doubt that the images represented something “horrific” or “evil.”

    The image to the right is also from Ellis Island but from the time when the island complex was actually used to process immigrants to America, and quarantine those who might be carrying any number of contagious diseases, and/or treat them as well. Note the striped uniforms that the two “patients/prisoners” are wearing and also the substantial barrier to confine these people. If someone had mislabeled this image as an “image of victims at Auschwitz waiting to be gassed,”who would dare to even doubt that it was “evidence,” or even “proof,” of Nazi bestiality.

    According to Sharon DeBartolo Carmack, The Family Tree Guide to finding your Ellis Island ancestors, (2005), pages 101/102:
    “Ellis Island had its own hospital, contagious disease ward, mental ward, autopsy theater, morgue, and crematory. …
    Those who were detained for observation or recuperation underwent daily delousing, where immigrants were stripped naked to have their clothing fumigated. …”

    The shocking truth is that Nazi procedures at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau, and elsewhere were essentially the same as those used by the United States at Ellis Island during periods of peace and great prosperity. The likely introduction of epidemic diseases into the country was a matter of life-and-death…

  1942. L.K says:

    Since Ron Unz mentioned the delousing procedures of Mexican laborers coming into the US, primarily using Zyklon B, it is interesting to note that earlier procedures used steam instead.
    F. P. Berg writes:

    A detailed description of the delousing procedures was actually given by the US Public Health Service in 1919. Note that the procedures are essentially the same as those used later by the Germans in WW2 except that the earlier procedures used steam to delouse clothing instead of Zyklon-B. …

    http://www.nazigassings.com/PDFs/DelousingElPaso.pdf

    “… All persons coming to El Paso from Mexico who are considered as likely to be vermin infested are sent through this plant for disinfection.
    The men and women are separated, men entering one side of the building and women and small children the other. In suitable rooms all clothing is removed and pushed through an opening in the wall into the disinfecting room, where the bundles are placed in the steam-chamber carriage run out to receive them. Shoes, hats, belts, and otlher articles injured by steam are dropped through another opening into a large laundry basket and, when necessary, are exposed to cyeanogen.
    Persons having money or valuables place such articles in a small cotton bag tied with a string and having a numbered brass cheek attached. ……
    The attendant watches the bathing process, and when the bath is finished the persons being treated pass into other rooms and wait for their clothing, which is handed back to them from the “clean end” of the steam chamber. No identification checks are placed on the clothing bundles; each person picks out his own bundle.
    When the clothes in bundles are passed into the disinfecting room, they are at once placed in the carriage of the steam chamber, and as soon as this is filled the chamber is closed. …”

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  1943. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “I always like ‘replies’ like this, without any content”

    Miss “Sure it [‘Meine Kriegserinnerungen’… Berlin, 1918] wasn’t published 1919? After he [Ludendorff] (expelled by Sweden) returned to Germany?”

    And (implied) why was Ludendorff, war loser and consummate killer of his own men, “very intelligent”?

    Enough content?

  1944. L.K says:

    In his must read ‘The Gas Chamber of Sherlock Holmes’, Samuel Crowell discusses and gives many examples of how late 19th, early 20th Century New York immigrants, especially Jews, were very fearful of the disinfection and hygiene procedures, often fearing they would be murdered.

    In the case of the New York epidemics we find many themes that would repeat themselves over subsequent decades. The immigrants, particularly Jews, feared the process of disinfection and quarantine, believing in some cases that their loved ones were being taken to a slaughterhouse.100

    They distrusted the health authorities, and sought to hide instances of typhus, never realizing of course that such opposition and concealment merely spread the disease further.101 In addition, there were problems with the quarantine. By regulation, those dead of typhus had to be cremated, but this was a violation of Jewish law.102 The quarantine stations did not make provision for kosher food, and, as a result, several pious Jews starved themselves.103
    The interactions between the New York health authorities and the immigrant Jews could almost be characterized as culture shock, so deep was the chasm of noncomprehension and nonaccommodation that divided them.

    http://www.samuelcrowell.com/?page_id=7

  1945. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “It is quite simple, as I stated before: Britain conspired with France and the tsar, to divide between them three empires, German, Habsburg, Ottoman.”

    Simple, indeed. You’ve not (despite repeated requests) established how the Allies (and don’t forget the Jews) ordered Austria-Hungary to attack Serbia, Germany to invade Luxembourg, neutral Belgium and France.

    Well? [second request]

    “The German attack of 1914 was to try to prevent a two front war.”

    German leaders started a two-front war “to try to prevent a two-front war”?

    Great thinking, jilles. You really learned a lot from Helmuth, Paul and Eric.

    Here’s a thought. Covet your neighbor’s property? Make sure to slit his throat and murder his family when you slip into his house. Things get nasty when they’re left alive. Just ask Eric.

    “Patrick J. Buchanan, ‘Churchill, Hitler and “The unnecessary war”…”

    Another gratuitous dropping. Said before (#1960) “Are you saying it supports your ‘Brits and Jews’ started WW1 thesis? Kindly furnish quotes and page numbers”? [second request]

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1946. Incitatus says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “[Ludendorff] describes in great detail how indeed communists and socialists did not want to pursue the war, not understanding that the victors’ aim was to destroy Germany”

    Guess that’s why the Allies laid waste to Germany post mutinies 1918-, as the latter had served Belgium and Northern France 1914-18?

    You just don’t get it, do you? Hindenburg and Ludendorff launched and lost the war. They survived to prosper peddling excuses exonerating themselves. Millions of their men did not. Much of Europe did not.

    “communists and socialists”?

    Don’t forget Freemasons, Jews, the French, the Diktat, November Criminals, faithless civilians, department-store owners, international bankers, globalists, degenerate Americans, and so on. Everybody but those who ordered, prosecuted, and lost the war.

    Wind your clock back to 19 Jul 1917. The Social Democrats [Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands SPD], Progressive People’s Party [Fortschrittliche Volkspartei FVP] and Catholic Center Party [Deutsche Zentrumspartei], together controlling nearly two thirds of Reichstag seats) pass a non-binding resolution [Reichstag Peace Resolution or Friedensresolution] favoring negotiated peace without annexations or forced reparation payments. The majority of Germans wanted to end the war.

    Note – no communists. Socialists? Wasn’t the NSDAP socialist? Tell us the difference between good and bad socialists?

    Hindenburg and Ludendorff, chastened, engineered the dismissal of Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg and arranged the formation of the Fatherland Party (led by Wolfgang Kapp and Großadmiral Alfred von Turpitz, joined by Alfred Hugenberg, Krupp steel executive and media baron) to advocate continuing the war to total victory. Think Krupp – premier Deutsche Waffenschmied – was threatened by peace? Hugenburg figured later in putting Hitler in power.

    Well, they got their wish in 1917, and millions more died. For nothing, other than their shameless vanity.

    Trust you to champion that.

    Ludendorff “had contempt for democracy…that [it] was too stupid to foresee what was going to happen, the Vernichtung of Germany”.

    Guess all missed the Carthaginian Allied march into Deutschland that laid waste to Germany in 1919. Care to refresh our memory?

    Why did Eric hate democracy? It might hold him to responsibility. Ask him about his stupidity and incompetence (no contingencies in the Schlieffen Plan, unrestricted submarine warfare, urging Mexico to attack the US, injecting Lenin into Russia with $100 million, eschewing tank production, etc.), Eric did his best to destroy Germany. Post 1918 he wanted a second chance. Sponsoring Hitler got that. And completely destroyed Germany.

    Yes, jilles. It was everybody else’s fault. Insert your favorite scapegoat.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1947. Anon[292] • Disclaimer says:

    “In fact, the Soviet and Polish “documentation” of NS extermination camps, makes constant reference to STEAM CHAMBERS, as a means of exterminating people.”

    So what? Americans use the word “bathroom” for “lavatory.” The same couldn’t be the case here? Further, the fact that “steam chamber” was used does not preclude the facility’s use as a gas chamber. In fact, the most efficient means to accomplish the mass killing of people would be to retrofit an existing facility like a steam chamber into something else; this would make even more sense in the case of a steam chamber as it is a sealed facility, making it easier to retrofit into something whereby toxic amounts of gas could be pumped into safely.

    “Steam and hot air delousing chambers were regularly deployed by the Germans in various concentration and transit camps, besides Zyklon-B fumigation/delousing chambers.”

    True, but irrelevant. From above: “the most efficient means to accomplish the mass killing of people would be to retrofit an existing facility like a steam chamber into something else.”

    “Such measures were also used by the US authorities both to handle European immigrants arriving in New York as well as Mexican laborers coming into the country from Mexico.”

    Zyklon-B, despite its use as a delousing agent, could also be used as a means to kill someone at high enough concentration or with a long enough exposure time. This would make sense for a war-time Germany under trade embargo. Why bother with synthesizing or trying to obtain something else when you already have an agent that 1. is lethal at high concentration 2. could be used to later deny the event ever took place – something Hitler was actively trying to do by locating many of these facilities outside of Germany?

    “Basically, in the case of the Nazis, we are dealing with a case where Soviet/Polish war propaganda maliciously – but stupidly – took over the confused testimonies of inmates who generally did not understand and feared the hygienic/disinfection procedures, even more so due to all the rumors being spread, and saw these procedures as signs of extermination facilities instead.”

    Perhaps. Much about the Holocaust has been misinterpreted or is based upon fabrication. That does not mean something very bad did not happen, however. The comments that Ron Unz and others have make about Zyklon-B and delousing chambers, for example, do not prove anything; they certainly do not prove that the Holocaust is a hoax.

  1948. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    “And whereabouts are the Palestinians? Just above the cockroach? … Sounds exactly like how Netanyahu controls most Israelis.”

    This is why Holocaust denial is banned in many countries. The cognitive elite fears kooks and simpletons. I do not advocate banning Holocaust denial myself. However, it should be obvious to any impartial observer of this thread that smart, well-meaning people are far outnumbered by cranks. So, you could see why others might want to take that step. If humans were smarter on average, this would not be an issue. Unfortunately, the American IQ is just ~98. As pathetic as that is, it is still ~13 points higher than the global average. Scary.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1949. Incitatus says:
    @refl

    “You have read quite a lot along the lines of mainstream western knowledge and you have internalized it so much that you get into a rage about it.”

    Could ask how you know what I have (or have not) read, but what’s the point? It’s pretty clear (correct me if wrong) you have no idea, any more than your spurious accusation of being in “a rage” – a cheap rhetorical device. You got nothin so far. What’s next?

    “WWI basically was planned in London starting about 1904, with the task to utterly destroy Germany, bind the English speaking Colonies plus the US into a world ruling anglosphere and in the long run diminish Russia. Zionists placed their money on the wining team”.

    You’re not Dutch by any chance? Related to jilles? No matter.

    Tell us how London and the Jews ordered troops commanded by Generaloberst Helmuth von Moltke and General Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf into Serbia, Luxembourg, neutral Belgium, and France. Voodoo? Telekinesis?

    We’re waiting.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @refl
  1950. Incitatus says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “Well, in fairness, 2000 or so comments, I’m sure it took you a while to craft your usual stupid and dishonest “questions”. Although, you do recycle your material, so maybe there really wasn’t that much effort. Please, it’s bad enough you’re weird, try not to be boring as well.”

    Trust you to be concerned about the time I spend! What a guy!

    Still, that’s the best defense you can manage for your scholarly ““Surprised that Inci-shithead is so late to the party”?

    Hesitate to ask. Can’t answer any – not one – of my “stupid and dishonest questions”? Don’t know the answers, or any answer exposes you as a cheap want-to-be-Nazi?

    No matter.

    Not for nothing you wear the Ritterkreuz für Gülleausbreitung mit Gekreuzten-Beinen, Scheiße-Cluster und Toilettenpapier Schärpe [Knight’s Cross for Manure-Spreading with Crossed-Legs, Turd-Cluster and Toilet-Paper Sash].

    Have to renew the sash frequently? Use the quilted name brand or a generic?

    All the best, Mighty BM.

    The turd that keeps on giving!

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1951. Wally says:

    The Usual Enemies of Free Speech want to shut it ALL down …because the impossible ‘holocaust’ narrative cannot not withstand scientific, rational, and logical scrutiny.

    http://www.codoh.com

    Why do YOU support open debate on the Holocaust? Send your video to [email protected], and we will share it on our channel.
    CODOH is operated entirely by volunteers. If you believe you can help, please go to our Volunteer page to view the many ways you can participate, and please donate to help achieve our mission to repeal anti-Revisionist anti-free speech laws around the world.

  1952. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    Incitatus asks a WWI question in a WWII debate. LOL:

    said: “Tell us how London and the Jews ordered troops …Voodoo? Telekinesis?”

    But then,
    ‘holocaust historian’ Raul Hilberg Explained that the Impossible ‘Genocide of the Jews’ Was Carried Out by TELEPATHY. LOL

    by Dr. Robert Faurisson : https://codoh.com/library/document/2443/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

  1953. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “This is why Holocaust denial is banned in many countries. The cognitive elite fears kooks and simpletons. I do not advocate banning Holocaust denial myself. However, it should be obvious to any impartial observer of this thread that smart, well-meaning people are far outnumbered by cranks. So, you could see why others might want to take that step.”
    LOL
    He cannot prove what Revisionists are saying & confirming here is wrong, so he makes excuses.
    In fact he’s afraid to actually debate because he know he will have his head handed to him.
    If was so confident he would welcome debate.

    His excuse for laws which ban free speech means that he supports them …because he knows he has no chance in a debate.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    Question these and you will be arrested in Europe and “that shitty little country”. The entire ‘holocaust’ narrative is built upon ‘facts’ like these:

    Out of pity for complete strangers – a Jewish mother and her child – an SS-man leaps into the gas chamber voluntarily at the last second in order to die with them.
    – E. Bonhoeffer, (note 213), pp. 48f.

    Mummified human thumbs were used as light switches in the house of Ilse Koch, wife of KZ commander Koch (Buchenwald).
    – Kurt Glass, New York Times, April 10. 1995.

    Muscles cut from the legs of executed inmates contract so strongly that it makes the buckets jump about.
    – F. Müller, (note 345), p. 74.

    Mass murder of Jews in vacuum chambers.
    – The Black Book of Polish Jewry, Roy Publishers, New York 1943.

    Mass extermination of Jews in steam chambers.
    – Soviet testimony at Nuremberg

  1954. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “The comments that Ron Unz and others have make about Zyklon-B and delousing chambers, for example, do not prove anything; they certainly do not prove that the Holocaust is a hoax.”

    Yes it certainly does.

    It’s claimed that Germans ‘exterminated’ Jews by dumping granules of the pesticide Zyklon-B through four openings / holes or little chimney-like structures that were secured upon the roofs of two gas chambers built alongside crematoriums II & III at Auschwitz/Birkenau.

    photo 1: top of roof of crematorium no. 2Taken January/February 1943 where there are no such ‘little chimneys’ or ‘holes’. Note that the little chimneys are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is ca. 2-3 inches high.

    According to Auschwitz “expert” Robert Jan Van Pelt (who appeared at the Irving/Lipstadt trial), the insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.

    photo 2: underside of crematorium II, post war
    http://forum.codoh.com/download/file.php?id=1334
    and:
    Notice no such openings / no holes exist in the underside of the roof in crematorium no. II (alleged ‘gas chamber’, there is no indication that these opening / holes were filled in.

    see here for more:
    ‘So where are the ‘holes & little chimneys’ for Zyklon-B ??’
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9262

  1955. Wally says:
    @Anon

    VIDEO classic: Auschwitz Aerial photos, some tampered with to fit the fake story :https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669&p=87558
    ex.:
    Drawn in ‘Auschwitz Jews being marched to gas chambers’, ON A ROOF.

    [MORE]

    Only liars need this fakery.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1956. @Incitatus

    You’re doing it again. Clearly, meds are called for.

  1957. Anon[183] • Disclaimer says:

    “VIDEO classic”

    That video proves nothing and strikes me as grasping at straws. Nothing in the comment above was contradicted by it. You might as well show me the Alien Autopsy video from the 90s as proof of E.T.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1958. Anon[622] • Disclaimer says:

    “It’s claimed that Germans ‘exterminated’ Jews by dumping granules of the pesticide Zyklon-B through four openings / holes or little chimney-like structures that were secured upon the roofs of two gas chambers built alongside crematoriums II & III at Auschwitz/Birkenau.”

    Sounds completely reasonable. Your grainy, black and white, photos prove (or disprove) nothing to me. Besides, we aren’t just talking about Auschwitz and Birkenau. Neither facility could have been involved and that still wouldn’t disprove the Holocaust in its entirety. I can accept a revised total figure, but it seems unreasonable to me after what I have read that this whole thing is made up – there are just too many locations, means of execution, and witnesses. Sure, lots of things have been made up – Jewish soap and human lampshades – but there is a grain of truth here. Something happened.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @annamaria
  1959. @Incitatus

    Meaning state [Serbian] sponsorship?

    That’s what I was thinking.

    Gavrilo Princip, assassin who sparked WWI, gets statue in Belgrade

    Serbian President Tomislav Nikolic described Princip as a freedom fighter and a hero.

    “Today, we are not afraid of the truth,” Nikolic said. “Gavrilo Princip was a hero, a symbol of the idea of freedom, the assassin of tyrants and the carrier of the European idea of liberation from slavery,” Nikolic told the crowd.

    [MORE]

    Sarajevo, 1941: The Removal of the Gavrilo Princip Plaque

    When German troops occupied Sarajevo on April 15, 1941, one of the first actions they took was to remove the 1930 Gavrilo Princip plaque erected in 1930 to commemorate the June 28, 1914 assassination. The memorial plaque was removed on April 19, 1941 and sent to Adolf Hitler at his command and control headquarters aboard his special train in Monichkirchen in Austria for his 52nd birthday.

    In 1945, the Communist regime of Yugoslavia erected a new memorial in Sarajevo at the site of the assassination to Gavrilo Princip who became a “national hero” of Yugoslavia.

    In 1953, a new plaque was erected by the Communist regime with Gavrilo Princip’s footprints encased in cement.

    This 1953 plaque and memorial were destroyed by Bosnian Muslim forces in 1992.

    In 2004, the Bosnian Muslim government erected a new Gavrilo Princip plaque in Sarajevo in Bosnian and in English in the Latin script. This plaque states that Gavrilo Princip assassinated the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie at that site on June 28, 1914.

  1960. Anon[318] • Disclaimer says:

    “LOL. He cannot prove what Revisionists are saying & confirming here is wrong, so he makes excuses.
    In fact he’s afraid to actually debate because he know he will have his head handed to him.
    If was so confident he would welcome debate.”

    I did no such thing. I merely related the motivation behind European Holocaust laws without supporting or opposing them, and you’ve pretty much played into their reasoning in this thread: you’ve posted a series of bizarre claims while ignoring some very strong, common sense, counter arguments and misconstruing the arguments made by others. You and others post other people’s opinions as if they were fact, falsely assert things that are reasonable are not, and post videos and photos that prove or disprove nothing. Smart normies don’t want to let guys like you have a say because they believe it too dangerous; it’s the same reason why some countries ban guns. I am not advocating any position but merely relating a fact.

  1961. Wally says:
    @Anon

    So IOW you say that photos of Auschwitz which do not show us what we should be seeing, IF the impossible story line as factual, must be ignored.

    And of course altered photos are proof of Zionist honesty, no doubt.

    I invite you to show us the alleged immense human remains for the alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ that are alleged to be in known locations.

    Here’s another for you:
    Aerial photo of Babi Yar at the exact time of the absurdly alleged shooting of 34,000 Jews into this ravine.

    There is no indication of the alleged shooting of 34,000 Jews into that ravine.

    Much more coming. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1962. Anon[162] • Disclaimer says:

    “Why do YOU support open debate on the Holocaust? Send your video to [email protected], and we will share it on our channel.”

    Do NOT send this guy anything of yourself talking about the holocaust. That’s a great way to ruin your life as it will be on the internet forever. That is EXACTLY what antifa and the FBI would do: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/17/report-antifa-tricked-and-doxed-conservatives-with-anti-antifa-t-shirt-site/

    • Replies: @Wally
  1963. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Desperately moving the goalposts, eh? LOL

    What “grainy photos” They look quite clear. Try your glasses please.
    But really, you’re simply dodging what you can’t handle.

    Then, show us proof of whatever ‘holocaust’ you faithfully believe in. LOL

    Tell us how the impossible gas chambers supposedly worked at Auschwitz or at the Reinhardt camps.

    You might actually try reading the irrefutable information which overwhelms your scientifically impossible silliness. You’re in over your head.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1964. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Indeed, Zionists and their “Holocau$T Industry” hate free speech. We know why.

    great video here:

    http://www.codoh.com

  1965. Anon[552] • Disclaimer says:

    “Desperately moving the goalposts, eh? LOL”

    Not really.

    “What “grainy photos” They look quite clear.”

    To whom? These are grainy, black and white photos which prove nothing.

    “Tell us how the impossible gas chambers supposedly worked at Auschwitz or at the Reinhardt camps.”

    You’re the one making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you. In any case, it would seem trivial to accomplish what the Germans were accused of here, regardless of the exact method. This isn’t quantum physics.

    “You might actually try reading the irrefutable information which overwhelms your scientifically impossible silliness. You’re in over your head.”

    A lot of it is kooky nonsense filled with logical errors, evidence-free assertions, and misconceptions.

    “great video here:”

    To reiterate, do NOT send a video of yourself to these kooks. There is a good chance they aren’t even Holocaust deniers but doxers working for the FBI or ADL.

    “Indeed, Zionists and their “Holocau$T Industry” hate free speech.”

    I do not support banning Holocaust denial. In fact, you’re a good reason for not making this a crime: a person like me could not debunk your claims publicly without risk that I would be jailed along with you, despite my good intentions; therefore, nonsensical claims like the ones you’ve posted go unchallenged and spread.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  1966. Wally says:
    @Anon

    There were no gas chambers. So, I can’t have the burden of proof to show that they existed or explain how they worked, there were none. Deal with it, child, you’re trapped with no way out. LOL

    See photo in my comment #1996, clear as bell. You’re panicking & dodging.
    More demolition of Auschwitz here:
    Altered Aerial Photos and the Shadows of Doom: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3249
    Must reads:
    Forty-Six Important Unanswered Questions Regarding the Nazi Gas Chambers : https://codoh.com/library/document/987/?lang=en
    and:
    The Rudolf Report: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/
    you said:
    “A lot of it is kooky nonsense filled with logical errors, evidence-free assertions, and misconceptions.”
    You must mean the ones that you can’t point out. LOL

    recommended: Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    http://www.codoh.com

  1967. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “I do not support banning Holocaust denial. In fact, you’re a good reason for not making this a crime: a person like me could not debunk your claims publicly without risk that I would be jailed along with you, despite my good intentions; therefore, nonsensical claims like the ones you’ve posted go unchallenged and spread.”

    Oh my, now that is dumb! So, that’s the best excuse you could come up with? Hilarious!

    Hey, you are already posting here, so posting an attempted rebuttal would make no difference.
    Besides, I wasn’t aware that they were arresting Believers for attempting to defend the impossible narrative. LOL

    You clearly are just another run-of-the-mill redneck Zionist who is in over his head and is grasping at straws to avoid debate. Only liars dodge debate.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1968. 2000 reactions, and no progress whatsoever.
    Jews continuing their ‘eternal victims’ ideas, and their ideas about the eternal evil Germans.
    In their rage about about what I see as truth, they cannot even read.
    I never mentioned a hydrogen bomb at Peenemünde, yet they accuse me of having written this.
    Suppose it must be rage, do not suppose they’re that stupid that they cannot read.

    The problem in essence is conflicting views, where, on the jewish side, facts are unimportant.
    The possibility that Germans mainly were, and aren victims, to the present day, it must be impossible.

    The thought does not enter their minds that in many countries, for 2000 years, jews, not all of them, of course, hardly ever were loyal subjects.
    Therefore the indignation about Solsjenytsyn’s book about jews in tsarist Russia since 1800.
    As old Le Pen said, he does not deny gas chambers ‘they’re just a footnote in history’.
    Try to say anything positive about Hitler, the whole world rises in indignation, or worse.

    What these jews oversee is the damage to jewry caused by Israel.
    About the whole world condemns Israel, it just just jewish power over politicians, and control of media, that this condemnation has effect.
    The murder of two Swedish politicians, both critical of Israel, well, there is not proof that Israel did it, but in my opinion it is on top of the suspect list.

    Hitler called jews parasites, well, Hitler understood not much of economy, when Keynesian economy was explained to him, that in a modern society creating money is quite easy, he was flabbergasted.
    Yet this is what Schacht did, to resurrect Germany economically.
    So Hitler’s parasite idea, in my opinion mainly that for Hitler if there was no sweat, one did not work.
    Jews in his time in Germany had a very disprortionate part of intellectual jobs, including banking.

    Where he was right, in my opinion, that German jews, again, not all of them, were not loyal to Germany.
    Both Morgenthau and Baruch had ancestors who left Germany because of ‘German militarism’, in other words, refusing to fight for Germany in the 1870 war.

    But about parasitism, if Israel can exist without continual financial support from the USA, I wonder.
    Karin Kwiatskovsky said about jews ‘they’re cowards, they let other fight their wars’.
    If there had been a WWII without Bernard Baruch, Frankfurter and Brandeis, I suppose not.
    None of them fought.
    If the USA had supported the enemies of Germany in WWI without Morgenthau, wo financed the campaign of Wilson, I wonder.

    Then the one billion dollar question, why are jews incapable of contemplating their behaviour ?
    Anyone who reads
    Ismar Schorsch, ‘Jewish Reactions to German Anti-Semitism, 1870 – 1914’, New York 1972
    will be amazed, in my opinion, on how this defence of jews is more of an accusation.

    2000 is a nice number, I stop writing here about gas chambers, in my opinion the possibility that anything other than lice was killed in gas chambers is close to zero.
    There is no point in discussion with people denying facts.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1969. About the whole world condemns Israel, it just just jewish power over politicians, and control of media, that this condemnation has effect.
    should be
    About the whole world condemns Israel, it just IS jewish power over politicians, and control of media, that this condemnation has LITTLE effect.

  1970. @Incitatus

    I was set off from your excellent exposition to search by no more than the pedantic thought that you had the Grand Admiral’s name misspelled (as you did: it is Tirpitz). I had joined one of his grandsons at a Christmas gathering and found him very civilised and agreeable so was disappointed to find that his forbear was a misguided warmonger.

    In the course of that expedition I came across this (don’t tell Wally in case he has a seizure) which shows (together with 1914 events) that it was Germany which started the total war, terror from the air and too-bad-about-the-civilians approach

    “‘Battlefield 1’ Gets Zeppelins All Wrong” @warisboring https://medium.com/war-is-boring/battlefield-1-gets-zeppelins-all-wrong-eea72be9c854

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1971. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    It may be a case of it being too late to teach an old dog new tricks but can’t you even remember being advised, even advising others to cut down on the idle verbiage and to avoid sounding like someone so in love with his own voice that nothing is too foolish to utter? Sure Frankfurter, Baruch and Brandeis didn’t fight in WW2. Apart from what else they did at that time are you aware of how old they were?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  1972. anonymous[265] • Disclaimer says:

    2000 COMMENTS! YOU DID IT!

  1973. @Incitatus

    Please stop beating up the aged and infirm. I find it spooky that it is giving me so much pleasure.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  1974. fnn says:
    @Colin Wright

    Joke I saw the other day: “It’s time to stop all reading by women until we can find out what’s going on.”

  1975. JackOH says:

    Many thanks to Ron for his post and the many sharp and informative comments beneath it on this enormously dreary subject.

    FWIW-I’m seeing, I think, four distinct camps here, and I’ll just toss out my names for them without elaboration.

    Conventionalists – those who accept the standard Holocaust narrative more or less in toto.

    Weak Revisionists – those who accept there are major flaws in the standard Holocaust narrative, but ascribe those flaws to historiographic failings.

    Strong Revisionists – those who accept there are major flaws in the standard Holocaust narrative, and ascribe those flaws to modern-day political interests.

    Denialists – those who reject most or all of the standard Holocaust narrative, excepting, maybe, discriminatory treatment of German Jews under the Nuremburg Laws, forced transportation of European Jews for resettlement, and extraordinary deaths of encamped Jews by disease and starvation.

    Am I touching on anything useful here?

  1976. @Wizard of Oz

    You shouldn’t find it “spooky”, you should find it completely pathetic.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1977. Auschwitz had 6 orchestras with the largest one having 120 musicians, an art museum, a library, a movie theater, a concert hall, a state of the art hospital whose maternity ward recorded 3000 live births!, football fields including one near Krema 2 where 500K people were allegedly gassed, a swimming pool where they played water polo and a brothel!! Compare this with Gitmo and tell me who are more humane.

    How can anyone still maintain belief in the standard narrative. Extermination camps don’t have art museums and cinemas.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Colin Wright
  1978. Anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Wasn’t Auschwicz-Birkenau actually three different camps?

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  1979. Anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Are you now given to euphemisms? Shouldn’t you have sternly mandated “deplorable”.?

  1980. @JackOH

    I don’t find the subject dreary at all. Out of interest, what other historical topics do you find enormously dreary? But re. your characterisation of the various revisionist, ummm, camps, I would think there are very few revisionists who could be considered ‘weak’ in your sense, because ascribing major flaws to ‘historiographic failings’ as if these were somehow distinct from ‘political interests’ past and present is very difficult to credit. If one posits that the allegations of mass murder, especially relating to the ‘death factories’ were largly or wholly the product of Polish, Jewish, Soviet and Allied propaganda, then the post-war institutionalisation of these myths cannot just be the result of historiographical failings.

  1981. @Anonymous

    Two major camps (Auschwitz and Birkenau) where the inmates mostly lived. Monowitz is often referred to as Aushwitz III, but I wouldn’t call it a separate camp. I think it was the largest of the 40+ so-called sub-camps, which were work sites, outside the main camps.

    Graham’s point stands, I believe. If the gas chamber allegations are true, the camp and its adminisration were schizophrenic in nature.

  1982. @Haxo Angmark

    the “Death Books” document deaths in Auschwitz only

    They recorded deaths of registered inmates in both Auschwitz and Buirkenau. Czech’s book would merely tell me what I already know – there are, apparently, several hundred thousand people who were sent through the Auschwitz camps who are unaccounted for. The crux of the matter is simply whether the alleged gas chambers and the exisiting crematoria capacity could conceivably have been technically able to kill and dispose of such huge numbers in the manner described. If not, then the numbers arriving at the camp must have been exaggerated, and/or the records of those who were sent on elsewhere (to other camps, or further into Poland or Soviet territory) are lost or were destroyed.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
  1983. Herman says:
    @Anon

    Translation to english is the question here

    Defenders of the Holocaust Myth insist that the German words Extermination and extermination , when used in reference to people, can only mean, killing, a point which they want to demonstrate by adducing some German dictionary published after the war. This Defenders of the Faith is insist that the meaning has not changed. Both claims are disproven, through consultation of old dictionaries and through consideration of usage prior to 1945.

    T his is from A New Compendious English Dictionary by William Dwight Whitney, Henry Holt & Co., New York, 1887. (That’s only two years before Hitler was born, and 13 years before Himmler.) Eradicate and the noun derived from it, eradication , historically have a range of meanings. The literal meaning of eradicating is its primary meaning, “r oot out.” “Eradicate” is simply a Latin-derived word that literally means “root out.” “Extirpate” is also defined as “to pull up by the roots.” “Exterminate” had a meaning in 19th and early 20th century. ) the border ( terminus ); therefore “exterminate” in older usage need not mean killing.

    • Replies: @Wally
  1984. Wally says:
    @JackOH

    said:
    “Denialists – those who reject most or all of the standard Holocaust narrative, excepting, maybe, discriminatory treatment of German Jews under the Nuremburg Laws, forced transportation of European Jews for resettlement, and extraordinary deaths of encamped Jews by disease and starvation.”

    Please tell us what is wrong with “rejecting most or all of the standard Holocaust narrative”.

    Tell us what parts of the standard ‘holocaust’ narrative are factual, please present proof for them.

    Waiting.

    http://www.codoh.com

  1985. Wally says:
    @Herman

    Actually you mean the words ‘ausrottung’ & ‘sonderbehandling‘.

    ‘If you can’t say what you mean, then you can’t mean what you say.’

    http://www.codoh.com

  1986. Wally says:
    @Henry's Cat

    There is no doubt that the missing outbound train records are hidden away or destroyed. We know why. See my comment above, #1466.

    The alleged cremation numbers were scientifically impossible, see my comment above, #1332.

    Keep in mind that the alleged ‘gas chambers’ were also quite impossible and that there are NO immense human remains as alleged at the sites.

    Game over.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  1987. @L.K

    Yes. As long as we’re on the subject of changing the subject, Britain’s illegal starvation blockade of Germany (which had been part of UK war planning for at least a decade before hostilities broke out) was put in place immediately, i.e. well before any (ineffectual) zeppelin raids. But of course our resident shills/ass-hats know this, don’t they?

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  1988. @Mulegino1

    ‘It is incumbent upon all persons of good will to destroy this calumnious blood libel against European Christian culture before it becomes a permanent abscess upon the western psyche…’

    Meh. I’d advocate simply agreeing six million Jews or thereabouts were killed.

    Nu? About thirty million Russians died. Some unknown but huge number of Chinese died — certainly more than six million, and most of them impeccably innocent. I’d go for about six million Germans myself — a good half innocent civilians, and many who hadn’t even been in Germany for centuries.

    …and that’s just World War Two. The Mongols seem to have roughly halved the population of Iran. They slaughtered twenty million Chinese. Various Central Asian peoples were eradicated completely — and intentionally.

    Ever noticed how there aren’t many Native Americans in the Caribbean?

    Hutu…Biafrans…Libyans…Armenians…Kurds…just about everyone Timurlane ever met. All kinds of folks have been the victims of huge, genocidal, or semi-genocidal slaughters. The Last of the Mohicans…now, how’d he get to be the last? Vows of chastity got to be too fashionable?

    Things are tough all over. It can be granted that six million Jews were killed. The Germans paid — they definitely paid.

    That leaves one saying, so? Shall it be agreed that we should try not to do it in the future to someone else?

  1989. @Grahamsno(G64)

    ‘Auschwitz had 6 orchestras with the largest one having 120 musicians, an art museum, a library, a movie theater, a concert hall, a state of the art hospital whose maternity ward recorded 3000 live births!, football fields including one near Krema 2 where 500K people were allegedly gassed, a swimming pool where they played water polo and a brotheL..’

    Lol. Maybe in your next life you’ll get a chance to volunteer for the next transport. Come on now, raise that hand…

    • Troll: Beefcake the Mighty, L.K
    • Replies: @annamaria
  1990. @JackOH

    This a useful first start, but I think any legitimate revisionist understands that the “flaws” in the standard narrative aren’t due to any (more-or-less honest) failings, but to outright lies from the start. (Continued motivations have of course changed over time, e.g. driven by Israel’s political interests, etc.) I think a better categorization concerns disagreement over the actual numbers, e.g. 10K’s of shootings vs 100K’s (no revisionist accepts the 1-2M number). And no revisionist believes in an “extermination plan” or gas chambers. There is dispute over the scale of deaths (but again, agreement that it hardly warrants the religious reverence accorded).

  1991. @Anon

    This is just to inform you that I read your latest ‘reply’.

  1992. @JackOH

    ‘…Conventionalists – those who accept the standard Holocaust narrative more or less in toto.

    Weak Revisionists – those who accept there are major flaws in the standard Holocaust narrative, but ascribe those flaws to historiographic failings…’

    I’ll make a point here — the same one Gilad Atzmon tried to make but got pilloried as Holocaust Denier for.

    There are historical events. These are always subject to reinterpretation, revision, etc in the light of new evidence or just new ways of looking at the same evidence. On the other hand, there are religious truths. Any attempt to altar how these are perceived leads to cries of heresy, etc.

    Part of the problem we have is that many adherents of the conventional narrative insist on regarding the Holocaust not as a historical event, but as a religious truth. Hence, Holocaust Denial laws, etc.

    Of course the Holocaust is not a religious truth. It is in no sense in the same category as the Trinity, the authenticity of Mohammed’s revelation, or anything else. It’s like the Crusades, or the First World War, or the Great Depression — a historical event, subject to revisiting, reconsideration, reinterpretation, and so on.

    Obviously, I agree with the latter point of view. The Holocaust was a historical — not a religious — event. It’s just that I remain convinced that the conventional narrative — stripped of the quasi-religious strictures, of course — is essentially correct. The Germans set out to exterminate all the Jews of Europe, and largely accomplished just that.

    Others can advance other positions. I’m all for that. In fact, I find Holocaust Denial laws far more irritating than Holocaust Deniers. Knock yourselves out, if you want to. I am not obliged to agree with you, however.

  1993. @L.K

    ‘Since Ron Unz mentioned the delousing procedures of Mexican laborers coming into the US, primarily using Zyklon B, it is interesting to note that earlier procedures used steam instead…’

    You do realize that this offers a fine point of departure to go galloping off on some theory that the US murdered Mexicans attempting immigration by the million?

    Explains why so few came before about 1980, doesn’t it?

    It’d be interesting to see how far it could be promoted. Detailed demographic arguments showing that ten million Mexicans clearly disappeared between 1910 and 1960. Solemn articles in the New York Times insisting this did not happen…cries from the idiot Left demanding a ‘Mexican Holocaust Memory Day’…

    Oh my. But where were we?

  1994. Herman says:
    @EugeneGur

    Shlomo is that you? unit 8200?

  1995. @Beefcake the Mighty

    How was the blockade illegal? Blockades, of whatever kind, are an essential part of war.

  1996. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    “Obviously, I agree with the latter point of view. The Holocaust was a historical — not a religious — event. It’s just that I remain convinced that the conventional narrative — stripped of the quasi-religious strictures, of course — is essentially correct. The Germans set out to exterminate all the Jews of Europe, and largely accomplished just that.”

    Is that why you cannot present proof for your belief?

    Auschwitz:

    An “extermination camp” where thousands of Jews chose to stay behind when the Germans left.

    An “extermination camp” where most of the inmates, more thousands, chose to leave WITH the Germans.

    An “extermination camp” where 1,250,000 human remains are supposedly buried, but no one can show us these remains.

    An “extermination camp” where many Jews gave birth.

    An “extermination camp” where the absurdly alleged homicidal ‘gas chambers’ could not have worked as alleged, as proven repeatedly, scientifically impossible.

    An “extermination camp” where fake ‘gas chambers’ were “reconstructed” AFTER THE WAR.

    An “extermination camp” where detailed aerial photos of the period show nothing that is alleged to have been happening.

    An “extermination camp” where there are even obvious, laughable attempts to tamper with aerial photos that make a mockery of the fake storyline.
    see:
    Auschwitz Aerial photos, tampered with to fit the fake story: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11669

    An “extermination camp” where there are countless Jew “survivors”.

    An “extermination camp” where so called “survivors” say the most impossible and conflicting things that do not hold up to scrutiny, would be laughed out of a legit court of law.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  1997. @Wally

    There you go again. Don’t you see the irony of inviting people to an open debate on the Holocaust, before ending practically every post with ‘Game over.’

    This thread has over 2000 posts in two weeks. How long has it taken the CODOH Forum to register its last two thousand?

    The CODOH Forum should resemble something like a subreddit – irreverent, free-wheeling, very lightly moderated. And it probably would be if moderated by someone whose main interest in revisionism was the promotion of free speech – as it was with Bradley Smith. But, alas, no; that’s why it averages – what? – a handful of posts a day, and has about a dozen regular posters?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  1998. refl says:
    @Incitatus

    Sorry, that I have let you wait this long. We should not make this a long discussion into the causes of WWI, as this would be off topic, so I recomend you the blog I mentioned

    http://firstworldwarhiddenhistory.wordpress.com

    I see it as a good match to American Pravda, concerning WWI revisionism. It is much more healthy as WWII revisionism, its less bitter, and it cannot land you in jail anywhere. And in researching it, you automatically come to WWII from a fresh perspective.

    Russian mobilisation orders were posted within hours of French President Poincares departure from Saint Petersburg (three o’clock on 24/7). Mobilisation in a war of the era meant war, which was known to all parties in the conflict. So the Russian order came within hours of the obvious consent of the French President. This certainly did not escape the Germans. The Russian railroads built in the years preceding the war forced the Russians to mobilise against Germany. Partial mobilization against Austria was not even possible (Christopher Clarke, “Sleepwalkers”).
    The British fleet was mobilized on 27/8, in time to greet Poincare on his way back into the English chanel. Even Britain was preparing to fight before Germany had even moved (1/8)!

    This leaves us with the realization that Germany was indeed the last to mobilise and the first to declare general war. The Germans did have intelligence and knew quite a lot of what was going on. They willfully lost time, which cost them dearly in the offensive against France, when critically troops had to be withdrawn to oppose the Russians in the east.

    There was no telekinesis involved, but simply military intelligence and a dump war plan. The plan to crush France first and then oppose Russia had probably little chance of succeding ever, and apparently not even the Kaiser knew the details: It is odd, that war against France was declared only on 3/8, two days after Russia. Moltke did not manage to bring the Kaiser to declare war on both opponents at the same time and so he ordered the troops to mobilise in the opposite direction of the Kaisers intention! Only at the last moment he could make it clear to the Kaiser what today all scholl children know, that France was to be attacked first.

    Tthe Kaiser and his military staff probably believed that German military might would be enough to deter any enemy, simply by threatening Schrecklichkeit. Therefore they had not even any viable plan in the event of actual military conflict. When war came, all they had was a recipe for disaster, and for this they are indeed to blame.

    Stupidly, they were up against the anglosaxon elite, who was willing to wear them down in a prolonged war at the cost of everybody else but themselves. Their plan was to ruin everybody to the benefit of the bankers. Reparations and financial ruin for everybody but the bankers were the principal war aim.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  1999. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    Enough already of your whining about “special victimhood” of the Jewish tribe.
    Millions of innocent people of various ethnicities perished in the WWII. Only your tribe made a profitable and extortionist business on the tragedy.
    Anon[622], the ongoing Wars for Israel in the Middle East make your Holo-museums obsolete.
    Today, in commemoration of the 9/11, the zionized US has attacked the sovereign state of Syria in order to protect Al Qaeda/ISIS “freedom fighters.” Undoubtedly, the attack was ordered by the bosses in the Land of Dancing Israelis: https://www.rt.com/news/438008-us-strikes-syria-white-phosphorus/
    “Two [US] F-15 jets on Saturday bombed the town of Hajin with white phosphorus incendiary munitions [again!], banned under the Geneva Convention… The use of any incendiary munitions in populated civilian areas was banned by the 1980 Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. The US signed the protocol back in 2009.”
    — Comment section:
    “These Americans shut down Syrian News Outlets all over youtube, then bomb a Syrian town spreading propaganda. This was probably all planned.”
    “These Israeli agents shut down Syrian News Outlets. No more, no less.”
    — Every time your tribe attempts at squealing about its “incomparable victimhood,” “superior morality,” and other holo-biz nonsense, there is the multitude of evidence of the zionists’ barbarity and sadism, which have been exposed, for the whole world, in the Middle East. …. As if the horrors of the Jewish Bolshevik Revolution were not enough.

  2000. Wally says:
    @Henry's Cat

    The CODOH Revisionist Forum as of this moment:
    Total posts 78,767 • Total topics 10,294 • Total members 1,542

    It’s not the number of daily posts that matter, but the number of daily readers. The CODOH Forum now has more readers per day than ever before. In fact it’s booming, especially since I started posting here.

    The guidelines are pretty basic stuff, but they do keep out the name callers and prevent people from dodging challenges to their claims. IOW, something that would eliminate yourself.

    And of course you dodged this offered at CODOH:
    Name a specific “holocaust” topic censored / banned here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7322

    What really bothers you is the obvious fact that you and those like you have no chance in debate, witness this thread and CODOH. There have been countless numbers of posts by Believers at CODOH that resulted in Believers being embarrassed and looking for excuses like you. No matter, the posts are still there for all to see.

    Zionist True Believers have no chance against informed Revisionists, witness CODOH and this very thread. You’re simply trying to distract from that fact.

    So come on big talker, debate me right here, you have no chance and know it. Game over.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2001. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Lol.”
    — Yes. The Holo-biz claims are “Lol.” As well as the cult’s loyal soldiers. The subhuman deeds of the Jewish Bolsheviks and “most moral” Israeli terrorists leave very little space for any respect for the cultists.
    At least the German culture has made an enormous contribution to humanity. And what is your contribution? — The puny claims on “special victimhood?” In the context of the ongoing barbarity in the Middle East?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  2002. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Henry's Cat

    Many of the excerpts from Czech’s book that I read https://mchekc.org/admin/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Auschwitz-Chronicle-1944.pdf?x65920 are based on and rely on “camp resistance movement” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_movement_in_Auschwitz accounts and sources, whom could have exaggerated victim figures, etc., so they could be used in anti-Nazi propaganda:

    WWII Poland, resistance movement hang up anti-Nazi propaganda

    POLISH MILITARY RESISTANCE MOVEMENT AT AUSCHWITZ
    Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum

    Resistance movement reports were initially smuggled out by prisoners who were released from the camp, then later by initiated civilian workers employed by the SS in the expansion of the camp as well as the initiated inhabitants of Oświęcim. Already by end of 1940 these reports were systematically reaching Warsaw. On account of the fact that the Home Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Army Silesia District documents were destroyed, the details of these contacts are unknown, we also do not know by which routes the reports reached the Government Delegation for Poland. What is more, there is a lack of personal accounts made by those who were probably the most engaged in collecting and passing on information from Auschwitz concentration camp, since towards the end of 1942 the Germans arrested and later murdered almost the entire Oświęcim district Polish Home Army command. We know, however, that these reports were next used in the writing of periodic summary reports, situation reports and other documents produced either with the intention of being sent the Polish Government in London or to be used for information and propaganda purposes in occupied Poland.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/exhibit/gQhxPmoo

    This is also an interesting passage from the book. Why were these “most dangerous elements” evacuated from Auschwitz, in June 1944, and not directly eliminated/liquidated at Auschwitz, when it supposedly was an extermination camp?

    The evacuations of Poles and Russians as the most dangerous elements of the camp continues. 4,500 prisoners,among them 2,900 Poles and 1,600 Russians,** were evacuated in June in three
    transports from Auschwitz I.”
    http://archive.is/dJC7G#selection-2187.44-2205.29

    There are also some other problems with Czech’s documentation work:

    According to the calendar by Danuta Czech,[24] 735 000 people were brought to the scene of the crime (without the transports from Hungary,[25] which she does not count). Of these, 15 000 {637} were Soviet prisoners of war;[26] of the remaining 720 000, 346 000 were registered according to Czech, i.e. taken into the camp, and 374 000 were not registered. Czech assumed the death of these unregistered prisoners in the gas chamber, even though there is no documentary evidence for this;[27] there were also prisoners without registration numbers living in the camp.[28] Since the total number of registered prisoners was 405 000,[29] 59 000 of the 374 000 who were not at first registered must have been registered later, so that 315 000 were left without a registration number. 225 000 of the 720 000 were handed over to other camps[30] – Czech has only noted a tenth of these. When the camp was dissolved, 58 000 were evacuated and 8500 were left behind,[31] so that 428 500 remain, a figure which, added to the prisoners of war, comports with the 433 000 dead estimated in part from the capacity of the crematoria: They were murdered.[32]

    http://archive.is/VgrZy#selection-359.0-393.4 and http://www.vho.org/GB/c/Meyer.html#ftnref30

  2003. @Henry's Cat

    Blockades as such were not illegal, but Britain’s actions exceeded in scale and scope the limits international agreements (that Britain was signatory to) placed on them. Definitely a precursor of the terror the British would unleash on civilian populations in WW2.

    https://mises.org/library/blockade-and-attempted-starvation-germany

    • Agree: L.K
  2004. Wally says:
    @davidgmills

    David:

    And the first one you posted was a built AFTER the war by the Soviets.

    below: mock-up of alleged gas chamber filled with corpses. LOL
    https://forum.codoh.com/download/file.php?id=1406&t=1

    For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11143&p=83723&hilit=model+asmarques#p83723

    http://www.codoh.com

  2005. Them Guys says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    NAZIS Starved all those Jews we were shown in photos, where 5,000 dead skinny naked Jew bodies were thrown into huge piles of arms and legs everywhere. Then…Nazis used dead Jew FAT to make into Bars and huge vats of Soap & Liquid type Soap…..Then…Nazis used Dead Jew Skin to make Lamp Shades and nice Bifold Wallets out of!…..Then, Nazis showed ditches filled with dead Skinned, De-fatted Jew bodies…However, they simply forgot to stamp a huge “J” on each Jew body to confirm it as Jewish. No, that part never happened..Every skinny dead Jew shown in such photos still had all their skin intact….And finally Nazis used that missing Fat from 75-lb. dead Jew bodies, After digging up the bodies, as Fuel to Roast Jew Dead skinny Fatless, skinless, bodies…

    Its all rubbish nonsense, eh. I rather stick with belief that Nazis invented Bicycles, similar to a one front wheel exercise rider bike as seen in Gyms, with the front wheel replaced with a dozen Wooden feet, and with steel toed work boots on those dozen feet, which would Kill a Jew tied to the wall behind the booted feet wheel when another Jew was forced via Bull Whips, and Electric Shocks, to sit on the bicycle death machine, and peddle as fast as he can….Thus after a few hundred direct Hits and Smacks to the face of the Jew tied to a wall, by all dozen boot covered feet on wheel. The poor sap died….This was done again and again, resulting in well over ten million dead Jews.

    And it Must be true…Otherwise why on earth would any Jew survivah make such outlandish claims?……Please do not try saying those Jews made such idiotic fabled claims, just to receive a $1,000 tax free-holohoax Payment per month from Germans…No good Jew would ever tell such a lie unless it really was true….Jews are well known for always being honest. Anybody who disagrees is a vile Nazi anti-Semite and a Jew hater wishing to kill another Six-Million Jews!

    Jews also claimed that Nazi SS evil bastards invented a, Conveyor Belt, similar to a super market check out lane where folks place food products onto conveyor belt. Only Much larger size belt, large enough to hold Tens of Thousands of Jews per loading. Then, and all done within Two Minuets or less…Once Conveyor belt was loaded, it moved fwd, into what looked like a semi-covered section in middle of belt line, that covered section contained…TWO-MILLION Volts of 220 V. AC Electric Power!….So many electric volts, it was able to Mass murder kill every Jew forced to sit on conveyor belt, dead in seconds flat, instant death. Then due to extreme Heat from two million electric ac volts…Each now dead Jew was turned into a small, 1-2 inch tall pile or pyramid of…ASH!!!…..Dead Jew Ashes that were carried to end of conveyor line, and dumped into waiting wheel barrows, which other Jews used to transfer dead Jew ashes to a Garden where veggies grown got fertilized by Dead Jews Ashes!……This is more yet, proof, of how smart Germans were at inventing better and quicker methods of production. This Electrified Conveyor Belt invention mass murdered at least 2-3 Million Jews in a very fast time frame…Months is all it took. And the Veggie Garden grew massive sized watermelons!

    This was never learned of until long after WWII ended. Jews who survived, were warned to remain silent about it, since if word leaked out that Dead Jew Ashes used as fertilizer in the Garden, grew such massive huge Watermelons…Allied Leaders feared that once US Army Negro forces found out about Huge watermelons, that those Negro usa soldiers would rush into Germanys Gardens to feast on Watermelons….Because as most folk know. Watermelons are like a Beacon Light call for a Negro’s taste buds.

    “Some things are True, even though they Never Happened!”….Eli Da Weazel, ziojewboy swindler.

  2006. @Colin Wright

    . . . I remain convinced that the conventional narrative — stripped of the quasi-religious strictures, of course — is essentially correct. The Germans set out to exterminate all the Jews of Europe, and largely accomplished just that.

    Ron Unz must be pulling his hair out. He took the risk, and went to the trouble to compose a 17 000 word essay, and to spotlight Professor Arthur Butz’s
    The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, https://www.unz.com/book/arthur_r_butz__the-hoax-of-the-twentieth-century/

    that pivots on this unavoidable reality:

    “The simplest valid reason for being skeptical about the extermination claim is also the simplest conceivable reason: at the end of the war, they were still there. “

    Unz made reference to numerous other canonical works on the holocaust topic, including extensive consideration of several books by Deborah Lipstadt, of whom Unz wrote:

    “[She is] a professor of Holocaust Studies with an appointment in Emory University’s Department of Theology, and once I read the opening paragraph of her first chapter, I decided that her academic specialty might certainly be described as “Holocaust Theology.” “

    Unz provides further evidence from Lipstadt’s own writings that she does, indeed, consider holocaust a matter of religious belief.

    You state that “Of course the Holocaust is not a religious truth.” so you probably agree with Unz’s critique of Deborah Lipstadt, one of the most vocal and effective (i.e. in punishing and silencing doubters), whom Unz described as “hysterical” and lacking in scholarly gravitas.

    All this raises several questions:

    1. Did you read Ron Unz’s long essay, on which you have posted over one hundred comments?

    2. Have you read any of supporting documents and books Unz linked, and/or quoted, and/or archived for the convenience of readers to review?

    If you have critically read Unz’s essay and at least some of the supplied supporting material, on what bases did you reject his conclusion,

    ” . . .as an [ amateur and an ] . . .outsider exploring this contentious topic I think it far more likely than not that the standard Holocaust narrative is at least substantially false, and quite possibly, almost entirely so.

    What valence is it that makes it more beneficial for you to maintain, “simply,” that “Germans set out to kill all the Jews of Europe” and “succeeded” in “killing 6 million Jews?”

    What would it take to persuade you that it is not rational to hold that “The Germans set out to exterminate all the Jews of Europe, and largely accomplished just that,” i.e. given Butz’s important observation, echoed by Unz:

    Finkelstein noted that more than a half-century after the end of the Holocaust, the number of officially designated Holocaust survivors had grown so large that simple mortality considerations seemed to imply that huge numbers of European Jews must have survived the war. This obviously raised serious questions about how many might have actually died during that conflict and its accompanying Holocaust.

    Finally, — following on Svigor’s comment @ 1865,

    “Holocaust skepticism is a moral duty. “

    with which I agree, but you responded:

    “I should advocate something I believe to be false simply because to do so is illegal elsewhere?
    I don’t think so. . . . — just as I think the Holocaust really did happen.
    Aren’t I permitted to say what I actually think? “

    and your exchange with Mulegino1 @ 1959, and your response —

    Mulegino1: ‘It is incumbent upon all persons of good will to destroy this calumnious blood libel against European Christian culture before it becomes a permanent abscess upon the western psyche…’

    Colin Wright: Meh. I’d advocate simply agreeing six million Jews or thereabouts were killed.

    Firstly, would you advocate “simply agreeing” that the school guard at Parkland was responsible for the deaths of 17 students there, and putting him to death for those multiple murders?

    Do you maintain that justice under the law takes a back seat to “simply agreeing” to a persistently promoted narrative for which, as Prof. Butz argues in Hoax, no evidence exists while countervailing evidence is abundant — even increasing: the number of holocaust “survivors” is multiplying! Rather, But argues, The Holocaust is based on Nuremberg “trials,” which, in turn, disregarded standard rules of evidence?

    Second, what might be the consequences in various other realms of society were such “simple” agreements to hold sway?
    This aspect took on even greater importance after listening to Ramzpaul’s conversation with Paul Gottfried, respected member of the Unz community —

    @ 24 min, after he is asked “why Jews support mass migration,” Gottfried responds,

    “Number one, Jews are terrified of white Christian anti-semitism. What the Nazi experience did was show– thickly the way it is presented to them by Jewish organizations, that this is the natural outcome of white Christian civilization. And if Jews want to be protected, you have to bring in other groups to neutralize the Christian national components of gentile society, and then Jews will be safe.
    I don’t think that this is the libido dominandi, or the desire to control everything, I think there is real fear: it’s irrational. . . . this is irrational, yet people do believe crazy things.
    Although Jews have high intelligence, and do brilliantly in the professions, they really believe that white Christian nationalist society societies endanger them, and therefore they lie with groups that in some cases want to destroy them! I mean, they’re self destructive in this hatred.
    I read the publications of the . . . Central Committee of Jews in Germany . . . not necessarily Germans, they just happen to be located in Germany — they favor letting Muslims come into Germany. They’re going to kill the Jews! Then they blame this on the white Christian Germans, you see?
    In France the Jews are terrified of something which is not going to hurt them.
    But they are driven — I think they’re driven by paranoia.

    Do you think it’s a good idea to discard rationality, and adherence to rule of law, in favor of encouraging a “paranoid” group in the grip of a “self-destructive hatred”, and also in possession of vast amounts of wealth, nuclear weapons, a history of functioning by means of treachery and deceit?

    Should the American people put their foreign as well as domestic policy in the hands of such a “paranoid” group, or do they have a “moral duty” to their own national interest and to their own future to disabuse the “paranoid” of their “irrational fears,” and remove them from positions of influence over US policy?
    ——-
    PS The rest of Gottfried’s commentary in this section is extremely significant, particularly his cataloging of groups and states where antisemitism has and has not arisen, and the reasons for same. Summarizing, Gottfried notes that “there was no antisemitism in places where Jews did not come in contact with non-Jews;” and that “antisemitism occurred most virulently where Jews came in contact with non-Jews in the largest numbers and for the greatest lengths of time, such as in Poland, where Jewish-Polish friction was great.”

    Gottfried’s commentary tarnished his credibility as a philosopher: if antisemitism is “hatred of Jews just because they are Jews,” then to have “causes” for antisemitism is a non sequitur: animus toward Jews in response to this, that or the other conflict brought about by economic or social or political exploitation is not an uncaused cause, it is a natural and even rational response to an offense, real or perceived.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  2007. utu says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Don’t you see the irony of inviting people to an open debate on the Holocaust, before ending practically every post with ‘Game over.’

    CODOH and Wall’s mission is not to convince anybody. They are to stop any debate on Holocaust and make actually revisionism impossible. The only beneficiary of the CODOH and Wally’s busy bee mechanical and repetitious activities is the Holocaust Industry that can make claims of being threatened by disgusting deniers, Jew haters and Hitler apologists like Wally.

    Is Ron Unz who endorses statements like this one (see comment #1631)

    At this point I became convinced that not a single person was executed by the Germans simply because he or she was Jewish.

    for an open debate and revisionism or is he like the ‘Game over” Wally?

  2008. Anon[230] • Disclaimer says:

    Because of Jewish sociopolitical action in the US since they’ve been here, my once nice White neighborhood now has young rape-ready homeless Black crackheads stalking it.

    Whatever the Germans perceived of the Jews, I’m 100% positive they were spot on.

    • Agree: Them Guys
  2009. annamaria says:
    @utu

    In commemoration of the 9/11: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-09/us-says-assad-has-approved-gas-attack-idlib-setting-stage-major-military-conflict
    “t appears Washington is now saying an American attack on Syrian government forces and locations is all but inevitable.”
    Comment section:
    “Secret cables and reports by the U.S., Saudi and Israeli intelligence agencies indicate that the moment Assad rejected the Qatari pipeline, military and intelligence planners quickly arrived at the consensus that fomenting a Sunni uprising in Syria to overthrow the uncooperative Bashar Assad was a feasible path to achieving the shared objective of completing the Qatar/Turkey gas link. In 2009, according to WikiLeaks, soon after Bashar Assad rejected the Qatar pipeline, the CIA began funding opposition groups in Syria.”

    The US Congress has not approved the US being in Syria.
    The UN Security Council has not approved the US presence in Syria.
    President Assad of Syria did not invite the US or approve the US presence in Syria.
    Only the US deep state neocons have approved the US presence in the context of “regime change”.

    Bolton is nothing more than a mere Agent of Chaos with his mission for the continuation of the Yinon Plan.”

    “Israel Is Warning Iran By Announcing the Jewish State Destroyed Syria’s Nuclear Reactor:” https://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2018/03/21/klein-israel-warning-iran-announcing-jewish-state-destroyed-syrias-nuclear-reactor-aaron-klein/
    “The Jewish State Has a Special Duty to Defend Syrians” (this deserves a prize for the most Orwellian talk): https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/opinion/israel-defend-syria.html
    “After airstrike in Syria, an Israeli proxy war with Iran looms:” https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-airstrike-in-syria-an-israeli-proxy-war-with-iran-looms/

    Here is a real and ongoing mass slaughter in Syria, which was instigated by the Jewish Power. The mass slaughter is not some inventive stories suited for extractions of money from decent people by the opportunistic tribe.
    Where are the main 150 Jewish organizations in the US to protest the slaughter? — Nowhere. The same dead silence as in response to the neo-Nazi renaissance in Ukraine. The neo-Nazi are supported and armed by the US ziocons and by the Jewish State: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-10/major-israeli-daily-our-government-arming-neo-nazis-ukraine.
    The Kagans clan even “arranged” a Jewish prime minister in the neo-Nazified Ukraine.

    And you complain about “Jew haters and Hitler apologists?”

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2010. @annamaria

    ‘Lol.”
    – Yes. The Holo-biz claims are “Lol.” As well as the cult’s loyal soldiers. The subhuman deeds of the Jewish Bolsheviks and “most moral” Israeli terrorists leave very little space for any respect for the cultists.
    At least the German culture has made an enormous contribution to humanity. And what is your contribution? — The puny claims on “special victimhood?” In the context of the ongoing barbarity in the Middle East?’

    I’m really not Jewish. Honest.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2011. annamaria says:
    @Colin Wright

    “…a historical event, subject to revisiting, reconsideration, reinterpretation, and so on.”

    Not so for this ongoing historical event: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-09/pentagon-sends-strong-message-russia-live-fire-assault-drills-syria
    “The Russian Defense Ministry has repeatedly warned that the militants in Idlib have been preparing a false flag attack using chemical weapons to justify the US strike against the forces loyal to the Syrian government.”

    From the comment section:

    1. – “As an old US veteran, I find myself more and more ashamed of my country and government. I apologize to the World for my Satanic “Leaders.”
    2. – “Don’t feel bad, they aren’t “your” leaders. If the people were in charge, these wars for Israel would never happen.

    Are you aware, Colin Wright, of the ongoing slaughterous wars for Israel? Your tribe has been involved in genocide, first in Russia and now in the Middle East.

    Colin Wright: “The Germans set out to exterminate all the Jews of Europe, and largely accomplished just that.” — This is not true, whereas the slaughterous Wars for Israel are real. Time to repent and pay reparations to the victims of zionism.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  2012. Has Reason magazine or libertarians in general ever won anything?

  2013. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Protesting too much, he said:

    “I’m really not Jewish. Honest.”

    Yawn.

    IOW, you are a non-religious Jew.

    A distinction without a difference.

    • LOL: Colin Wright
  2014. Wally says:
    @utu

    Game over, utu.
    Your laughable & impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’ fantasy has been demolished.
    You have been bested in debate, can’t handle it, and now resort to lying and whining like a dumb millennial. LOL

    This is what Ron Unz really says, from comment #1333 in this thread:

    Now supposedly, the Germans slaughtered millions of Jews and buried them in mass graves in Poland. But then a couple of years later once the tide of battle shifted and the Russians were advancing, they allocated gigantic human and physical resources to dig up most of those rotting bodies and cremate them, thereby making all the evidence disappear.

    Seriously, isn’t that just about the most absurd thing you’ve ever heard? Does *anybody* seriously believe something so totally ridiculous? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to claim that the technologically-advanced Germans invented a teleportation machine and beamed all the bodies to Venus?

    Is is *really* true that the official Holocaust narrative claims that the Nazis recruited large numbers of experienced barbers so that they could give each and every Jew a quick, professional haircut just before killing all of them? Shame, shame on the nasty Nazis for not throwing in nice manicures and pedicures as well…

    http://www.codoh.com

  2015. Wally says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    quoted:
    “Although Jews have high intelligence, and do brilliantly in the professions”

    Really?

    Jews get to play by a different set of rules. Rules which greatly favor them over everyone else, especially over gentile whites.

    If Jews were really so smart they would have conjured up a better, more believable story than their impossibly fake & stupid ‘6,000,000 & gas chambers’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2016. ‘…Are you aware, Colin Wright, of the ongoing slaughterous wars for Israel? Your tribe has been involved in genocide, first in Russia and now in the Middle East…’

    I can infer that you haven’t visited my website.

  2017. @Henry's Cat

    During WWI the fiction of international law did exist, under this fiction the USA should never have allowed that USA ships could not go to German ports:
    Charles Callan Tansill, ‘Amerika geht in den Krieg’, Stuttgart 1939 (America goes to War, 1938)

  2018. JackOH says:
    @JackOH

    Thanks to all for commenting on my back-of-the-envelope classification scheme of opinion regarding the Holocaust narrative, #2010 above.

    Maybe a decade ago the student newspaper at my local university ran an ad over the name Bradley Smith questioning the numbers that died at Auschwitz. I don’t recall the exact wording, but the ad was an obvious bit of provocateur-ship. I didn’t think much about it, and I expected a competent faculty member, perhaps the professor of Holocaust Studies, to dispose of the question in, maybe, a 600-word reply in calm, robust academic prose.

    That didn’t happen. There was a handful of professors who very quickly signed a letter ignoring Smith’s question and calling him a Holocaust denier and anti-Semite. Following that there was a flurry of letters, maybe a dozen or so published in several succeeding issues, criticizing the professors for rejecting the freedom of inquiry they were expected to champion. A few of the letters seemed anti-Jewish. Most, in my opinion, were not anti-Jewish.

    After maybe two weeks of the donnybrook, the university administration put an end to it by sponsoring a documentary movie about the Holocaust that was shown on campus. Of course, Holocaust critics severely question how those camp survivors came to be emaciated, what purpose those grim buildings actually served, and so on, so old newsreel footage may not be persuasive.

    That’s a bit of backdrop to my participation on this thread. I have a bit of a salesman’s bias in favor of seeking agreement, so I’d like to think eighty years after the events in question there ought to be a consensus among educated folks about what actually happened to the Jews and the documentable intentions of the Nazis. Doesn’t look like we’re close to achieving that consensus, though.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2019. @SolontoCroesus

    More and more French jews leave France for Israel because of Muslim attacks on jews.
    How many such attacks were in Germany, at least one.
    In the Netherlands, any jewish institution has permanent police protection, since a jewish restaurant was attacked in Amstelveen, in fact a suburb of Amsterdam, jewish businesses also demand protection.
    No jew in the Netherlands dares to go on the streets with the traditional jewish keppeltje, do not know the english word, for men.
    Holocaust education in schools with many Muslim children, impossible.
    So, if jews want mass migration of Muslims for fear of ‘christian’ whites, then they’re very stupid.
    Some German jews do see the danger, and protest, Karl Lagerfeld an example.
    I can imagine a jewish reason for the mass migration, the hope of Muslims and ‘christians’, between ”, because most people in W Europe hardly are christian any more, fighting each other.

  2020. @annamaria

    It really is beyond pathetic how the Americans can’t even think up decent lies anymore.

  2021. annamaria says:

    Shouldn’t the victimized countries join their efforts and nuke the whole Murdoch family?
    http://thesaker.is/syria-september-8-and-9-sitrep/
    “The Wall Street Journal has just published a bombshell on Sunday evening as Russian and Syrian warplanes continue bombing raids over al-Qaeda held Idlib, citing unnamed US officials who claim “President Bashar al-Assad of Syria has approved the use of chlorine gas in an offensive against the country’s last major rebel stronghold.”

    Comment section:
    Larchmonter445: “The WSJ is owned by Murdoch. He is also a stakeholder [together with Cheney] in Genie, with rights to the gas in Golan Heights from Israel that stole them from Syria.
    Thus he has a vested interest (billions) in getting rid of Assad. No Assad and the Israelis keep Golan and the gas.
    https://www.sott.net/article/347777-Genie-Energy-Granted-Drilling-Rights-in-Occupied-Golan-Heights-by-Israeli-Regime-Rothschild-Cheney-Murdoch-Claim-Syrias-Oil

  2022. Incitatus says:
    @refl

    Thanks for your response. I’ve not had time to fully read it, but agree this is not the thread for full discussion.

    The mobilization equals war argument is problematic (wasn’t alive then). Little doubt everybody was trigger happy, but mediation was offered and accepted by all except Germany and Austria-Hungary. Default suggests mobilization = mobilization, declaration of war/invasion = declaration of war/invasion, but each decides for himself. Contemporary quotes by the principals [Geoffrey Wawro ‘A Mad Catastrophe’] do little to exonerate the aggressors.

    Seems reasonable to assume many parties (industrialists, bankers, etc.) stand to profit or loose with the fortunes of war. Does that mean they gave the order for war? Don’t think so. Allied “elite” institutions had their counterparts in German “elite” firms like Krupp, Hoechst AG, Deutsche Bank, etc. Gustav Krupp was many things, least of all a pacifist.

    GW Bush gave the 2003 order to invade Iraq. He, his administration, and the conspiratorial cheerleaders own responsibility for the war. Not Saddam, mobilized Iraqi troops, or the country GWB invaded. KBR, Cheney’s old company, walked away a decade later with $39 billion. Did KBR (and other firms that profited) give the order? They may have had influence, but GW Bush pulled the trigger.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @annamaria
  2023. Incitatus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thanks for the Tirpitz correction – doubtless not my only misspelling. The Großadmiral sported a wonderful forked beard, and – to be fair – seems pretty typical of his peers. Understandable, given unification in the crucible of war 1870-71?

    Would there have been more stability if monarchy was retained in some form? Stresemann invited Crown Prince Wilhelm to return on condition he not engage in politics (Nov 1923). Broke his promise and first met Hitler in 1926. Joined the paramilitary Stahlhelm, supported anti-democratic groups and (ultimately) Hitler. The acorn falls close to the tree?

    Glad Tirpitz’s descendant was well adjusted. Wilhelm Viggo von Moltke seemed as cantankerous in the 70s as one imagines Helmuth der Ältere. Urban planners wax imperious, so it might have been vocation as much as genes.

    “Germany…started the total war, terror from the air and too-bad-about-the-civilians approach”

    Planet Germania has a carefully rehearsed standard. Anything targeted by Germany is “legal”, anything targeted by the Allies is “criminal”. The first aerial bombing of a city (Liège, 6 Aug 1914)? Legal. Bombing Paris during the First Battle of the Marne (6-12 Sep 1914)? Legal. Bombing Britain (51 raids 26 Feb 1915 – 5 Aug 1918, 5000 bombs, 557 deaths, 1358 wounded)? Legal.

    The first Entente bombing (Britain’s raid on Zeppelin bases in Cologne and Dusseldorf 22 Sep 1914)? Devilish, criminal, satanic!

    Alas, precedents, quotes from Douhet’s 1921 ‘Command of the Air’ (the total war primer), used by Guernica mastermind Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen (once attached to Douhet’s command), Warsaw 1939, etc., have little effect in the circular UR ‘total war from the air’ discussion. Other than to bring out Wally in majestic SpamMatic mode.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2024. If 1.1 million Jews were gassed in Auschwitz then Rudolf Hoess the commandant would have confessed to exactly that number not the wild 2-3.5 million figure unless you are telling me that he didn’t know how many were gassed and that the Germans were unable to keep a cumulative tally of how many they gassed which is preposterous. Why would Hoess exaggerate the figures as if 1.1 million isn’t a crime enough. This very fact should tell you how worthless his ‘confession’ is.

    Secondly if 1.1 million Jews were gassed in Auschwitz then we would have a detailed and technical description of the gassing from Hoess but what do we have? In his first confession we find that the Zyklon B gas was released from shower heads an utterly ridiculous idea which just shows that the people drafting his ‘confession’ were unaware of the fact that Zyklon B came in the form of pellets not gas. A few weeks later when they became aware of that fact they changed the story to the ridiculous holes in the roofs of Krema 2 & 3 holes which don’t exist! But then this stupid procedure was discontinued in Krema 4 & 5 and the utterly absurd procedure of throwing Zyklon B through a window with Grills was adapted!! The fabricators of the gassing story didn’t know that the crystals degas very slowly thus making the retrieval of the still degassing crystals after a mass execution impossible. These fabricators were also unaware that the crystals have to spread out evenly in order for the gas to diffuse evenly through the room thus rendering the throwing them into a room full of people criminally stupid. The Americans were aware of this and in their gas chambers had the crystals dropped into sulphuric acid to release the gas instantaneously.

    Had Hoess wanted to gas Jews in Auschwitz he had the best weapon on hand the automatic Zyklon B blowers which were there in the delousing chambers. This machine automatically opened the can of Zyklon B crystals and blasted it with hot air thereby accelerating the gassing process. With this machine both the problems of retrievability and even diffusion are solved but no the Nazis behaved like monkeys trying to Juggle balls. You know why they didn’t use this blower because the fabricators of the gassing hoax had no idea how technically retarded it was to use Zyklon B pellets to gas humans enmasse.

    The reason we don’t have a coherent and technically feasible description of the gassing from Hoess is simple – he didn’t know as he had not gassed anyone and that’s the same reason Leuchter and Germar didn’t find any trace of Cyanide in the ruins of Krema 2 – there weren’t any gassings there. None of the ‘sonderkommandoes’ ever report on cherry red corpses which are the result of Cyanide executions. Add to this the mind boggling stupidity of holding mass gassings using Zyklon B in a crematorium where the ovens were allegedly working 24/7 when Zyklon B is an explosive gas albeit in higher concentrations. This would be ruled out purely on safety basis but all this was not known to the hoaxers. If the Nazis were gassing millions there would have been a wealth of technical literature on it discussing optimum conditions, safety protocols, quality controls, product evaluation, toxicological reports and they would have experimented with lots of gases, they had already weaponized nerve gas and they would have surely experimented with them on the Jews. But what do we have Pesticide and that old Soviet diesel engine – LOL

    Combine this with the coke usage, cremation capacity the Bletchley park intercepts which show nothing untoward Auschwitz is dead. It’s just a matter of time before some reputed main stream historian announces that the emperor has no clothes.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2025. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    Comment #1951 above destroys the Guernica Lie.

    Leave it to Zionist Incitatus to talk about WWI in a thread about the impossible ‘holocaust’ of WWII.
    Napoleon, anyone?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  2026. Wally says:
    @JackOH

    In his comment #2010 JackOH categorized:

    “Denialists – those who reject most or all of the standard Holocaust narrative, excepting, maybe, discriminatory treatment of German Jews under the Nuremburg Laws, forced transportation of European Jews for resettlement, and extraordinary deaths of encamped Jews by disease and starvation.”

    I ask him once again: Please tell us what is wrong with “rejecting most or all of the standard Holocaust narrative”.

    Tell us what parts of the standard ‘holocaust’ narrative are factual, please present proof for them.

    Stop dodging.

    also said:
    “Holocaust critics severely question how those camp survivors came to be emaciated, what purpose those grim buildings actually served, and so on, so old newsreel footage may not be persuasive.”

    No they don’t, you’re lying. Revisionists know that disease was rampant and food was scarce. The fact is that the Allies illegally strafed & bombed civilian transports of medicine & food going into the sites making the problems much worse.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2027. Wally says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Notice that some of the Believers here are trying to move the goal posts by down playing Auschwitz, as if they knew all along it was ‘over emphasized’.

    They then try to desperately shift their fake ‘holocaust’ to the Reinhardt camps (Treblinka, Chelmno, Sobibor, Belzec) and the absurdly alleged Einsatzgruppen shooting of innocents into humongous pits. Of course, those are all just as problematic, just as impossible.

    IOW, they have painted themselves into corner.

    ‘O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive.’

    http://www.codoh.com

  2028. @Incitatus

    ‘… but mediation was offered and accepted by all except Germany and Austria-Hungary…’

    Even if so, the implications of that are limited.

    Serbia was a bad actor, and claims to the contrary notwithstanding, was hip-deep in the egregiously criminal assassination of the Arch-duke.

    It kinda depends on how you look at it. Should the US have accepted ‘mediation’ between it and al-Qaeda? Would we have been the ‘aggressor’ if Russia et al had declared war when we invaded Afghanistan to depose the Taliban?

    More fairly, it was a complex and interesting situation, both from a legal and moral point of view. I don’t think it’s reasonable to simply see Germany and Austro-Hungary as ‘bad’ and everyone else as being perfectly reasonable. France had obviously schemed to create and arm a coalition that could defeat Germany and then egged Russia on to bring the desired war about. Serbia was a pathologically aggressive nut case — given loans to arm herself by France, incidentally. Russia had her morally absurd pan-Slavic delusions and a pattern of instinctively aggressive behavior going back five hundred years. It really was none of her damned business if Austro-Hungary had a quarrel with Serbia.

    So, yes, Austro-Hungary was a faltering empire seeking to shore up her authority. Germany was a militaristic state instinctively looking for a militaristic solution.

    So? They were no more the villains than the other parties.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  2029. EugeneGur says:
    @annamaria

    Colin Wright: “The Germans set out to exterminate all the Jews of Europe, and largely accomplished just that.” — This is not true, whereas the slaughterous Wars for Israel are real.

    Both these statements are true. There is no contradiction. It is also true that Israel is milking the Holocaust story for all it’s worth and using it as a cover for its own atrocities.

    However, no matter how unpleasant the today’s state of Israel is, they are certainly not alone in this. The German Nazi did set out to exterminate the Jews of Europe and they did make a remarkable progress in this direction. No matter how much people here turn the story upside down and desperately try to balance themselves on their ears, the fact remains that entire communities have disappeared in Europe and the Soviet Union, and they did not miraculously relocated to the moon.

    By the way, Germany was preeminent in science at the turn on the 20th century. Have you looked how many of its scientists were Jewish? Well, a spot of ethnic cleansing ended all that glory. Being smart people and seeing where the wind was blowing, most emigrated to the US before things got really bad. This gave a huge boost to the American science.

    • Troll: L.K
  2030. @EugeneGur

    ‘…However, no matter how unpleasant the today’s state of Israel is, they are certainly not alone in this…’

    They are alone, however, in enjoying the enthusiastic support, subsidies, and protection of the US. In fact, without our help, Israel could never have come into being, much less pursued her course of ever-more criminal behavior.

    I compare the situation to teenagers. No doubt, many male teenagers are out there tonight, stealing cars, robbing liquor stores, perhaps raping girls, and generally behaving very badly.

    That’s one matter. It’s another matter if one of them happens to be my teenager. This is particularly so if I arm him, keep the local police from arresting him, and congratulate him on his behavior.

    We didn’t support Nazi Germany. We do support Israel.

    • Agree: Otterboy
    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  2031. ‘…However, no matter how unpleasant the today’s state of Israel is, they are certainly not alone in this…’

    There’s another point here as well. You seek to make a distinction between Nazi Germany and Zionist Israel.

    It’s not a distinction that I’m convinced exist. In abstract terms, the ideologies of Zionism and Nazism are extremely similar, and even arose under similar circumstances.

    Equally to the point, Germany’s crimes before the war and even her crimes in the limited wars of 1939 and 1940 compare to Israel’s, certainly in relative terms, and sometimes in absolute terms. Can you point to any act Germany committed prior to 1941 that outshadows Sabra and Chantila, the massacres accompanying the wars of 1948, 1956, and 1967, this spring’s weekly murdering of the demonstrators? The massive expulsions of 1948? Etc. There’s nothing Germany did in Poland before 1941 that surpasses Israel’s crimes — certainly not relative to the size of each state.

    And if Germany went over to full-scale genocide when total war came in 1941, what do you think Israel would do to her Palestinian captives if total war came to the Middle East? Do you really think you can distinguish between Nazi Germany and Israel?

    I can think of one distinction. At least Nazi Germany never tried to get others to fight her wars for her.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2032. Finally, there’s a third point about Nazi Germany vs. Israel.

    Whatever people think they were, Nazi Germany’s crimes are in the past. Nothing we can say or do will bring one victim back to life, nor add one to the actual tally, whatever it was. Indisputably, whatever did happen has already happened, and we can’t go back and change it.

    Israel is here now. Her crimes continue, and we could stop them.

    • Agree: Otterboy
  2033. @EugeneGur

    Eugene Gur, when did the Holocaust occur?

  2034. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    What were “Germany’s crimes before the war and her crimes in the limited wars of 1939 and 1940”?

    Still trying the back door. You can’t get away with that here.

    Talk is cheap.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2035. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    said:
    “The German Nazi did set out to exterminate the Jews of Europe and they did make a remarkable progress in this direction. No matter how much people here turn the story upside down and desperately try to balance themselves on their ears, the fact remains that entire communities have disappeared in Europe and the Soviet Union, and they did not miraculously relocated to the moon.”

    LOL
    The facts are that you, nor anyone else, can prove any of that.
    – We see that you have ignored the irrefutable information posted here which shatters your silly nonsense.
    – Your Jew “historians” say that Jews went to immense mass graves in allegedly known locations, but those alleged remains do not exist.
    – Please tell us how the alleged, but scientifically impossible, ‘gas chambers’ worked.
    – The story is”upside down” because it’s an upside down, laughably impossible story. LOL
    – All Revisionist are former Believers.

    Why do you want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists bring life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered. Jews like you should be elated.

    you said: ” most emigrated to the US before things got really bad. This gave a huge boost to the American science.”

    – Indeed, Werner von Braun was a true genius.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2036. MrPaul50 says:
    @Otterboy

    Otterboy, thanks for your intelligent comments, and I agree with most of what you wrote. To me, freedom of speech is far more important than suppressing unpopular, outrageous, hateful or just-plain-absurd opinions. What’s going on in Europe — making certain speech illegal — is frightening and wrong, and only makes the claims of those who believe zero Jews were murdered by the Nazis seem more plausible. My interest is in historical truth, but I agree that it’s unlikely any consensus will be reached regarding the actual number of Nazi victims. I’m comfortable with my number, and to be honest, rarely think about the subject. There are much higher priorities in the present world….

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Wally
  2037. @utu

    I want to see forensic evidence for 6,000,000 Jews and 5,000,000 gypsies, slavs and gays. Coroner’s reports, photos ( no not skeletal workers starved due to allied bombing of german Supply chain). IOW proof. Show us proof or take your showah and GFY.

    No paper trail.
    No evidence.
    Just BS
    Essentially tossing 3 millennia of European civilization under a bus so one tiny ethnic group can effect a propaganda coup and milk the cows til it’s dead.

    Hitler was right: untermensch, parasites, vermin

    • Agree: Them Guys
  2038. L.K says:
    @utu

    Mr. 300 ppm, aka sad little liar, utu:

    CODOH …mission is not to convince anybody. They are to stop any debate on Holocaust and make actually revisionism impossible.

    Typical ‘utu’: an utterly STUPID/RIDICULOUS and completely FALSE statement.

    Don’t worry boy, we know that since Unz published this article you are having sleepless nights…

    You are a coward, a phony and an enemy of free speech and free inquiry.

  2039. L.K says:

    Holohoax Survivors who Tell the Truth

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  2040. Wally says:
    @MrPaul50

    said:
    “only makes the claims of those who believe zero Jews were murdered by the Nazis seem more plausible … I’m comfortable with my number”

    Please tell us ‘your number’ and how they were supposedly “murdered”.

    Then, present proof, if you have it. And please, no dodging.

    This should be an interesting debate.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2041. JackOH says:

    On my wish list of books I’d like to see published:

    (1) a taxonomy of Holocaust thinking – conventionalists, revisionists “weak” and “strong”, denialists;

    (2) Holocaust thinking in the context of Jewish influence within Bolshevism, within pre-Nazi Germany, and within post-WWII America and the Middle East;

    (3) how Holocaust or genocide studies, the academic versions, may be used to approach the decline and deliberate marginalization of White Euro-ethnics within America and Europe. Is “race replacement” real?

  2042. Anne Lid says:
    @L.K

    I can’t watch this in the UK. Bitchute has 172 results for the same title, but looking through the thumbnails none of them is the one you linked. I has a sad.

  2043. EugeneGur says:
    @Colin Wright

    They are alone, however, in enjoying the enthusiastic support, subsidies, and protection of the US.

    This is perfectly true – no argument here. However, this is not the reason to deny the facts. Furthermore, the denial of the obvious and well documented puts the denier in an unfavorable position with respect to condemning the Israel’s actions and gives Israel a political and propaganda advantage.

    We didn’t support Nazi Germany. We do support Israel.

    Well, the US did offer a safe haven for those CC and Abwehr officers who found themselves unemployed at the end of the war.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2044. ‘On my wish list of books I’d like to see published:

    (1) a taxonomy of Holocaust thinking – conventionalists, revisionists “weak” and “strong”, denialists…

    Here, it’s more of a spectrum than any array with sharp divisions. For example, I would basically subscribe to the full monte — with the exceptions that I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp, am interested in the precise texture of Hitler’s awareness and culpability, and sharply question the perfect moral uniqueness and significance of the whole thing. I’d call myself a ‘conventionalist’ –but in most quarters, people would immediately suspect me of being — gasp — a ‘holocaust denier.’ ‘What does he really think?’ Sniff, sniff…

    (2) Holocaust thinking in the context of Jewish influence within Bolshevism, within pre-Nazi Germany, and within post-WWII America and the Middle East…

    Yeah. Now here there’s a striking division between the ingratiating ‘we’re Americans too!’ Jewish mentality of the fifties and early sixties and the increasingly aggressive ‘super-Jew’ attitude of the post-1967 era. The erection and exaggeration of the whole Holocaust mystique seems to be part and parcel of that.

    (3) how Holocaust or genocide studies, the academic versions, may be used to approach the decline and deliberate marginalization of White Euro-ethnics within America and Europe. Is “race replacement” real?

    I’m not all that convinced there’s a connection at all here. That tends to drift into the ‘monolithic conspiracy on the part of all Jewry’ schtick that I just don’t subscribe to.

    On the other hand, it’d be amusing to analyze ‘Holocaustry’ as an emergent religion. Trace its rise, describe its theology, identify its priests…

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @JackOH
    , @Grahamsno(G64)
  2045. Incitatus says:
    @Colin Wright

    mediation was offered and accepted by all except Germany and Austria-Hungary
    “Even if so, the implications of that are limited.”

    Why? Please be specific.

    “…claims to the contrary notwithstanding, [Serbia] was hip-deep in the egregiously criminal assassination of the Arch-duke.”

    Austria-Hungary investigators reported (13 Jul 1914) to Count Berchtold ”There is nothing to prove or even to suppose that the Serbian government is accessory to the inducement for the crime, its preparations, or the furnishing of weapons. On the contrary, there are reasons to believe that this altogether out of the question.”

    You know better?

    “Serbia was a bad actor”

    They weren’t alone. Bad cast in a dreadful drama.

    Unrest from 1848 (when Franz-Joseph took the throne) was a lit fuse. Nationalism, sovereignty, individual rights. The undoing of empires, Habsburgs included. They were not an unblemished dynasty. Germany knew it. Thus, von Moltke’s “European war is the last chance of saving Austria-Hungary. Germany is ready to back Austria unreservedly” to Conrad von Hötzendorf (31 Jul 1914). Germany’s motive? To stem the growing power of Russia and France. The latter would fall first and bingo, as in 1871, pay an indemnity that would finance the cost of war.

    Malice it might hold, but Serbia didn’t attack Austria-Hungry. It suffered the highest WW1 loss – 27.78% of the population. Deutsches Reich? 4.32% Austria-Hungary? 3.48%.

    “Austro-Hungary was a faltering empire seeking to shore up her authority. Germany was a militaristic state instinctively looking for a militaristic solution.”

    Austria-Hungry was as rotten as a botched skin-graft. Infected, coming apart, leaking. Eighty-four-year-old Franz-Joseph was hardly the man to sew it back together. He’d lost Tuscany, Lombardy-Venetia, and German leadership (1859, 1866). Compromised with Hungary (1867). Annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina (8 Oct 1908), violated the Treaty of Berlin, nearly caused war. A desperate attempt to reverse impotence and dissolution. Same story in 1914.

    Count Alexander Hoyos (Berchtold’s envoy) arrived in Berlin 5 Jul 1914 to tell German Foreign Office Undersecretary Arthur Zimmermann Vienna’s goals. The assassination would be used “to fabricate a pretext for settling accounts with Serbia”, which will be partitioned by Austria and it’s Balkan neighbors and essentially “wiped off the map”. A-H Ambassador Count László Szögyén-Marich met Wilhelm II at Potsdam the same day, promised “to eliminate Serbia as a power-political factor in the Balkans”, and secured support for military action (the ‘blank check’). Wilhelm II told Szögyén-Marich he “would be saddened if advantage was not taken of such a favorable juncture as the present one” for war, then departed for his annual North Sea cruise.

    Austria-Hungary gave Serbia a ten-point ultimatum eighteen days later (6 pm 23 Jul), simultaneously published it in newspapers, and demanded a response within 48-hours. Serbia accepted the ultimatum (25 Jul) but suggested the final condition, an inquiry into the “subversive movement” and “plot of June 28th” be conducted by international jurists at the Hague (in lieu of Austria-Hungary’s advocates on Serbian soil); Austria-Hungary broke diplomatic relations without discussion or negotiation and began to mobilize troops. Spurning mediation, it declared war three days later (28 Jul).

    “[Austria-Hungary and Germany] were no more the villains than the other parties”

    Disagree. Hohenzollerns and Habsburgs get at least 51% of the blame for pulling the trigger and sentencing their subjects (and many others) to four ruinous, deadly years. Most would estimate their responsibility much higher. Pity Germany suffered nothing comparable to what it inflicted on Belgium and Northern France. Nothing like ruined cities to cure the appetite for war.

    “Should the US have accepted ‘mediation’ between it and al-Qaeda? Would we have been the ‘aggressor’ if Russia et al had declared war when we invaded Afghanistan to depose the Taliban?”

    9/11 should have been regarded as a crime, not an act of war. Like the 1993 WTC bombing. Launching a ‘war on terror’ was precisely what bin Laden wanted. It conferred sovereign status on Al Qaeda, made criminal thugs into soldiers.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  2046. @Incitatus

    ‘…9/11 should have been regarded as a crime, not an act of war…’

    Oh honestly. The assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand wasn’t a criminal act?

    …and are we really going to have an argument where you insist Germany and Austro-Hungary were 51% responsible for the war while I hold out for 49%?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  2047. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    said:
    ” For example, I would basically subscribe to the full monte — with the exceptions that I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp”

    Why would you say that? Myself and others here have demonstrated rather easily that you have no proof for your “full monte”. It’s truly been a rout.

    I also note your moving the goal posts away from the impossible claims about Auschwitz, while at the same time subscribing to the equally impossible claims elsewhere. That is simply irrational.

    Those that believe in the ‘holocaust’ story want and need to believe in it.

    That’s fits you to a T.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2048. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    said:
    “This is perfectly true – no argument here. However, this is not the reason to deny the facts. Furthermore, the denial of the obvious and well documented puts the denier in an unfavorable position with respect to condemning the Israel’s actions and gives Israel a political and propaganda advantage.”

    Please show us what you mean by “facts” and “well documented”. IOW, present your proof.
    Sorry, but I can’t help but laugh.

    Heretofore you have ran from such challenges, will you do it again?

    recommended:
    Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2049. Incitatus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Oh honestly. The assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand wasn’t a criminal act?”

    Of course it was. Have I said otherwise?

    You insisted (despite Austria-Hungary’s contrary findings) it was an act of war by “bad actor” Serbia. Forget?

    You ignored Austria-Hungary (urged on by Germany) spurned mediation and (criminal) inquiry at the Hague and bought into von Moltke’s “European war is the last chance of saving Austria-Hungary.”

    Why?

    “are we really going to have an argument where you insist Germany and Austro-Hungary were 51% responsible for the war while I hold out for 49%?”

    No argument here Tell us who first declared war, first invaded. Then explain how they aren’t responsible for what followed.

    If you launch war, be sure you win.

  2050. JackOH says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin, back in the 1960s and 1970s there were wisecracks uttered occasionally by the folks I grew up with in Ohio, stuff like: “How many Jews can you fit in a VW”, “Two in the front, two in the back, and twenty in the ashtray.” I think the basic idea was there was a “party line” put out about those naughty Germans, but nobody at street level in America was actually buying it.

    There were four German ex-pats in my neighborhood, one of them a onetime Luftwaffe officer. There was a Slavic guy, too, We called him the “mean old man”. I suspect he was Ukrainian, but I don’t know for sure.

    Long story short: I don’t recall a single word uttered by either the German ex-pats or the Americans who defeated them about any anti-Jewish animus at all.

    Maybe that’s a starting point for any new scholar of Holocaust or genocide studies. Persuade me with evidence. I’ll stipulate to the obvious: Jews got a bad deal in Germany and German-occupied Europe. Let’s get into the exact details.

  2051. Wally says:

    said: “Let’s get into the exact details.”

    JackOH, you dodged my challenge to you above, #2063.

    What are you afraid of? The “details”?

    Talking is one thing, backing it up is another

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2052. annamaria says:
    @Incitatus

    Thanks for reminding about Cheney’s war profiteering: https://bush-treason.blogspot.com

    “Dick Cheney’s Halliburton spinoff, KBR received more money from the Iraq war than any other contractor.
    The company was given $39.5 billion in Iraq-related contracts over the past decade… KBR received over 28% of the $138 billion in taxpayer funds spent on the war. And corruption and profit sucked as much as 60% right into the pockets of the war profiteers.
    According to the bipartisan Commission on Wartime Contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the level of corruption by defense contractors may be as high as $60 billion.
    Cheney calls Iraq War a success.
    Cheney’s stock options and deferred salary from Halliburton amounted to direct payments to the warmonger for moving from private business into a government position from which he could send no-bid contracts to his former company. This gigantic payoff for starting the war might be one of the biggest cons ever conducted on the American taxpayer.”

    — One wonders how Cheney relatives sleep at night, knowing that their patriarch and main benefactor is the globally-acknowledged war criminal guilty of millions of deaths, including the deaths of tens of thousands of children and pregnant women?

    https://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Cheney_tells_AIPAC_that_Congressional_antiwar_0312.html
    “During an address to the 2007 policy conference held by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in Washington DC, Cheney told AIPAC members that they “play a vital role in making the strategic and moral case for America’s friendship with Israel. …

    The war on terror is more than a contest of arms and more than a test of will. It is also a battle of ideas. We know now to a certainty that when people across the Middle East are denied freedom, that is a direct strategic concern of all free nations. By taking the side of moderates, reformers and advocates for democracy, by providing an alternative to hateful ideologies, we improve the chances for a lasting peace, and we advance our own security interest. …

    I stand here today as a strong supporter of Israel, and Israel has never had a better friend in the White House than George Bush.”

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  2053. Anonymous [AKA "European observer"] says:

    I do not doubt for a second that the Holocaust has taken place, I even consider it a disgrace to deny it.

    This is based on the stories of hundreds of thousands of survivors and witnesses. For those who have doubts, even when that is based on valid arguments, I can strongly recommend to watch the documentary ‘Shoah’ of Claude Lantzmann (just type Shoah in the YT search box). Hundreds of survivors and witnesses, even German guards, are interviewed. It’s a long ride, it totals more than 9 hours.
    They all tell fragments of the same story. Am I supposed to believe that they all come up with a fake story, and have even checked that with each other? That is ridiculous.

    That there are anomalies and strange facts (like where the remains are), I agree on that. With some calculus it can be reasoned that the holy number of 6 million is probably highly exaggerated.

    Compare that to another shame of mass killings, the massacre of Nanjing by the Japanese army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre#Massacre_of_civilians . Estimates vary from 40000 to 200000. Well, nobody knows exactly. And you bet that the Chinese haven’t forgotten that. Out of own experience I can tell that even next generations Chinese hate Japanese from their bones.

    The total amount of victims, missing remains: it doesn’t change the main fact. And that is the organised slaughter of a large part of a population. What kind of name we give it doesn’t change that either.

    And there is where nerves are hit. Nobody (except many Turks) doubts that the Armenian genocide has taken place. Estimates vary from 1 million to 1.5 million. People want proof? Go to NW Syria, just dig in the sand and you will hit bones of them (now is not the right time to do that, probably). It was a mass killing in a organized way. People were gassed in caves by starting a fire at the entrance. People were tied together, put at a river, and just the first was shot. The body dropped in the water and dragged the others with it, hence they drowned.
    Many witness stories can be found in the book ‘The great war for civilisation’ by Robert Fisk.
    However, if you hit that subject in Turkey one might find trouble. Calling it a ‘genocide’ will put you in jail, and after having seen the movie ‘Midnight Express’ one might not consider this a good idea.

    Even when other countries in the last years had the courage to call it a genocide, a fuming Erdogan and his followers will result. It hits nerves for the distortion of their reality.

    And that is exactly what happens to the Holocaust discussion. The official story has been kidnapped by Israel for their victim role, just as any critisism on their actions is considered ‘antisemitism’. Immediately the race card is drawn, revenge is sworn, and the victim card is also drawn.

    (Btw, they are not a race. If you inherit Jewishness by a mother bloodline, then I would rather call it a Tribe. Just read fragments in the Talmud about how they think about goyim. I have never read such racist statements in my life, the KKK are choir boys compared to that. A Tribe that considers themselves as the Chosen One, whereas it can also be stated that they chose a God for themselves. Just read ‘The controversy of Zion’ by David Reid, it will change a view on the world.)

    And that is the whole issue, that an adult conversation is made impossible. When exchanging arguments is being blocked, then it is all too obvious that there is something really fishy about the subject.

    If I would say in public that I estimate that not more than probably 100000 victims have been fallen by the Holocaust, I would quite sure be burned at the stake, get pro-Israel organisations on my back, trying to shame and break me. That is the distorted reality, from people that see themselves all as victim so they can shoot with snipers at unarmed demonstrators in Gaza.

    Therefore I want to thank mr. Unz wholeheartedly for his courage to raise even the subject. The amount of comments proves that there are still many things to be said, that should be possible and I dearly hope that the ADL will stay away for a while.

    Btw, I have read here for the first time that the diary of Anne Frank is for a important part fiction. Alas, another fact debunked. However, if this book has changed the minds of many people in the world, than it sure has delivered some good.

  2054. Anon[970] • Disclaimer says:

    “Besides, I wasn’t aware that they were arresting Believers for attempting to defend the impossible narrative. LOL”

    The line is pretty thin between what is permissible and what is not. Therefore, it is not impossible to imagine someone contradicting some element of the accepted Holocaust narrative while also supporting it overall only to then get jailed. Basic logic doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.

    “You clearly are just another run-of-the-mill redneck Zionist who is in over his head and is grasping at straws to avoid debate. Only liars dodge debate.”

    I’ve debunked several of your BS claims. Whenever I have, you’ve run away from the topic to another one, usually by making preposterous claims and with nill evidence. You can’t be engaged in debate because you have a low IQ.

  2055. Anon[143] • Disclaimer says:

    “There were no gas chambers. So, I can’t have the burden of proof to show that they existed or explain how they worked, there were none. Deal with it, child, you’re trapped with no way out.”

    1. You’re the one making the claim, so you should prove it. You haven’t.

    2. You’ve provided evidence of NOTHING – just links to kooky websites and pictures that are either taken out of context or mean nothing. I’ve seen the same kind of so-called “evidence” with claims of the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot.

    3. Debate with you is impossible as you take things out of context and/or purposely distort + lack any kind of introspection.

    Case in point: you falsely asserted that funeral home crematories prove it impossible to burn bodies as described. This is not true because the process by which funeral home crematories work is not the same as what was described in eyewitness statements. When that was pointed out, you ignored it or reverted back to repeating “impossible” … which it isn’t. Further, either yourself or another poster brought up some nonsensical story about “steam chambers” somehow disproving “gas chambers.” Apparently, because the phrase was used by some witnesses or was included on a memo, that magically made all gas chambers suddenly impossible. It was then pointed out that retrofitting a “steam chamber” into a “gas chamber” would be have been ideal (and trivial) for decimated, trade embargoed, war-time Germany as preexisting steam chambers were relatively sealed environments already suited for the assigned task; merely using the phrase “steam chamber” does not in any way disprove the notion of a gas chamber existing. You took the “steam chamber” language out of context and then asserted something that wasn’t necessarily warranted while also ignoring contrary evidence; that’s typical of a zealot. You can’t have a debate with that kind of person because they search not for truth, but for anything to reinforce a preexisting belief. There are some people who’ll always believe aliens crashed at Roswell and there is nothing you can do to disabuse them of that notion.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  2056. Incitatus says:
    @annamaria

    “One wonders how Cheney relatives sleep at night”

    Vampires don’t sleep. Sadly, Dick’s wife Lynne (AEI Scholar) and daughter Liz (hawkish US Rep) are equal night stalkers. Shame is, like nocturnal unrest, quite foreign to them.

    Dick is the consummate double-dealer – Mephistopheles, not Faust:

    “I can tell you, Joe, the government had absolutely nothing to do with it.”

    -Debate response to Lieberman’s comment that he had done well financially at Halliburton, October 2000

    Cheney, who had little business experience and none in the oil industry, was hired as CEO of Halliburton in August 1995. The company’s government business under LOGCAP (which Cheney helped craft as Secretary of Defense) went from $144 million in 1994 to $423 million in 1996, and $900 million plus in 1999. The company billed the government $2 billion for Project Joint Endeavor (Bosnia & Kosovo) 1995- 2000 on a cost-plus basis.

    Under Cheney, Halliburton rose from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon’s contractor list; it’s government contracting rose 91%. Halliburton secured $100 million in government backed loans from the US Export-Import Bank 1990-1995; under Cheney’s tenure it received $1.5 billion (1995-2000).

    Cheney resigned from Halliburton in July 2000 to run with GW Bush. He cashed in $30 million in stock options and continued to receive deferred salary ($205,298 in 2001; $162,392 in 2002; $178,437 in 2003) and held 433,333 unexercised stock options. His 2004 net worth, after five years as CEO of a private company, was estimated at $70 million plus.

    “It is a false dichotomy that we have to choose between our commercial and other interests…Our government has become sanctions- happy. [Sanctions] almost never work…most of the time such policies are motivated primarily by domestic political considerations, by a desire to respond to pressure from some group or other here at home. They are rarely adopted with respect to whether or not they make sense in terms of overall U.S. foreign policy goals and objectives….The nation that’s isolated in terms of our sanctions policy in that part of the globe is not Iran. It is the United States.”

    -Haliburton CEO Cheney CATO Institute speech 23 Jun 1998

    CEO Cheney (a member of US Engage) lobbied to end sanctions on Iran and Libya. He was doing business with both regardless of sanctions (including Qaddafi’s $25 billion Great River Project — some analysts felt it was intended to shelter military & WMD production). Halliburton had an office in Teheran since 1975. The company paid a $3.8 million fine for violating sanctions in exporting prohibited technology to Libya through Italy (without admitting guilt).

    Fast forward to present day. Doubtless Dick (with his borrowed heart) condemns sanctions violators who deal with Satanic Iran.

    It’s what Mephistopheles would do.

  2057. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Prove what?
    The laughable ‘Nazi gas chambers’ did not exist, that’s it. And you can’t show me I’m wrong.

    the burden of proof: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
    After all, you’re the one making claims about millions killed in impossible ‘gas chambers’, not me. LOL

    – Those fake pictures from Jews are meant to support your absurd holocaust’ claims, not Bigfoot or Loch Ness. Only liars need fake pictures. It’s your claims that are scientifically impossible. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, eh? What’s “kooky” about the websites?

    – The problem for your ‘the Nazi cremations were different’ means that ‘the Nazis’ could defy laws of science. Oh those ‘magical Nazis’. LOL

    Everything that has been claimed by “The Holocau$T Industry” has been scientifically debunked. Show me where I’m wrong …. if you can. Walk the walk, little Zionist boy.

    – Yes, it was accepted at Nuremberg that Jews’ were mass exterminated in ‘steam chambers’. The Soviet government presented a detailed ‘forensic report’ as proof. LOL

    – So then, tell us how your ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked. LOL

    I don’t know much about Roswell, you apparently do. LOL

    Please show us the alleged immense human remains that Jew “historians” claim exist in supposedly known locations. Oops!

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2058. Wally says:
    @Anon

    You really need to become aware of just how stupid & impossible the ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ really are. Pull your redneck head out of your Zionist sand.

    The Rudolf Report, Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

    ‘Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz and Birkenau’, by Master Chemist Germar Rudolf: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html
    and:
    !! ‘Holocaust Skepticism: 20 Questions & Answers about Holocaust Revisionism’ !! / now available: https://shop.codoh.com/book/456/469
    free .pdf: http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/HolocaustSkepticism.pdf

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    http://www.codoh.com

  2059. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    said:
    “I do not doubt for a second that the Holocaust has taken place, I even consider it a disgrace to deny it.”

    Sure enough, indoctrination, propaganda, and laws which ban free speech on the subject do work on some people. I mean, hell, all Revisionists are former Believers. In fact you are nothing more than a silly religious fanatic who throws aside science, rational thought, & logic.

    Anyway, it’s simple, present what you think is proof … right here. Let’s get to it. I do suggest you actually read the comments here first.

    Not interested in the alleged “Armenian genocide” or the alleged “Nanking massacre” here, why do you change the subject?

    Only a sucker would believe that a faked diary with at least three different handwriting is “good”. See the fake Anne Frank diary crushed: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9924

    No immense human remains that are alleged to be at known locations, no ‘holocaust’.

    You’re suffering from cognitive dissonance, a common ailment that occurs when facts which demolished your ‘beliefs’ stare you in the face.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2060. @Anon

    You’re speculating.
    How’s this: if the Reich had wanted to kill Jews they could have fenced in an area with barbed wire and let them starve to death; sites of 1 mile square used only once; all the Jews dead by fall 1943 using multiple, single use sites.

    Holoco$t, holohoax, shoah business
    Laughable to any adult not suffering from ghs* or mental retardation.

    Gentile Hatred Syndrome: most Jews suffer from this along with paranoia. This is what happens when you allow uncle-niece marriage and first cousin marriage.

  2061. Brewer says:
    @Anonymous

    Hundreds of survivors and witnesses, even German guards, are interviewed. It’s a long ride, it totals more than 9 hours.
    They all tell fragments of the same story. Am I supposed to believe that they all come up with a fake story, and have even checked that with each other? That is ridiculous.

    It is not a unique phenomenon for great numbers to share a false belief. Throughout History there are many examples. Religion is one. 918 people committed suicide in Jamestown in the seventies fully convinced of the veracity of their false belief.
    I have not viewed the Lanzmann film but I will. I suspect that viewed through a skeptical lens and with knowledge of how “fragments” of a story coupled with a publicly promoted narrative can very easily become the predominant belief in retrospect.

  2062. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Claude Lanzman’s fake ‘Shoah’? Seriously?
    You mean the fictional film where the “eyewitnsse$” were paid to say what Lanzmann wanted.
    See that smashed below:

    Shoah, A Review, By Robert Faurisson : https://codoh.com/library/document/2184/?lang=en

    The Dictatorship of Imbecility, Claude Lanzmann and ‘Shoah’, By Serge Thion : https://codoh.com/library/document/2716/?lang=en

    Holocaust Movie “Shoah” Exposed as Propaganda, About the “Shoa”-Interview with the alleged Treblinka SS-Man Franz Suchomel, By Jean-François Beaulieu : https://codoh.com/library/document/1449/?lang=en

    Lanzmann’s “Shoah” Witness Simon Srebnik, By Santiago Alvarez : https://codoh.com/library/document/3140/?lang=en

    Lanzmann’s “Shoah” Witness Bronislaw Falborski, By Santiago Alvarez : https://codoh.com/library/document/3139/?lang=en

    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=lanzmann+shoah and: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=lanzmann+shoah&fid%5B0%5D=2

    http://www.codoh.com

  2063. Erebus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    This ain’t the thread for didactic comments on fundamental geopolitics-for-idiots, so I will leave you with a quote that illustrates that the US’ primary foreign policy goals remain unchanged from when Wolfowitz penned his Doctrine.

    “It continues to be among the foremost national security interests of the United States to prevent the domination of the Eurasian landmass by hostile powers. ”

    Wess Mitchell, Assistant Secretary of State, in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on 21 August 2018.

    BTW, the State Dept scrubbed that sentence from its website, but it remains (as it must) on the Senate’s version.

    Anyway, however blind you may be to geopolitical imperatives, imagining that OBL successfully pulled off 9/11 to lure the US to its doom in the Hindu Kush belies an imagination that’s never been off Groote Eylandt, never mind out of Australia.

  2064. Anon[481] • Disclaimer says:

    Is that an example of the Hicksville Community College pass degree standard of logic? Apparently the belief of some Assistant Secretary of State in a depleted State Department about a foremost US geopolitical interest can prevent it (also) being true that Osama bin Laden would have leapt at the chance to get the US to invade Afghanistan. Switch on whatever neurons you have available.

  2065. @Colin Wright

    I would basically subscribe to the full monte — with the exceptions that I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp

    Wow absolutely wow such extreme cognitive dissonance can only be entertained by true believers

    It’s like saying that ” I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Christ didn’t resurrect but Christianity still holds.”

    Or ” I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Evolution is true but God still created Adam.”

    Sorry Colin you can’t ‘subscribe to the full monte’ and concede Auschwitz.

    It’s almost a logical impossibility.

    A violent contradiction in terms.

    An Oxymoron.

    Auschwitz is ground Zero.

    Auschwitz is the Mecca of the Holocaust religion.

    It’s the “Holiest of Holies” as Holocaust Hagiographer Van Pelt calls it.

    It’s a pilgrimage site for the faithful where they experience deep emotional ecstasy.

    Where they flagellate themselves in religious ecstasy like the Shias do during Muharram crying “Never Again”

    It’s the ‘Wailing Wall” for the secular Jews.

    Where they bring their kids for the secular ‘Bar Mitzwah.’

    Deny Auschwitz and the religion crumbles into dust

    Deny Auschwitz then there’s nothing left the entire theological landscape becomes as barren as Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor

    Deny Auschwitz then the Jewish tragedy becomes Mundane

    like the killing fields of Cambodia

    or Rwanda

    Deny Auschwitz you deny the uniqueness of the Jewish Tragedy

    Deny Auschwitz you deny the Holocaust

    There’s no getting around this, no redistributing the numbers to other camps.

    No redistributing the numbers to the ‘Holocaust by bullets’

    Because we are not playing a numbers game here

    What made the Jewish Tragedy unique was Auschwitz

    Deny Auschwitz and the entire Shoah business stands exposed for what it is.

    Crude and poorly thought out war time atrocity propaganda disguised as History

    History disguised as a pseudo religious cult.

    And just like any other religious cult they want money.

    Lots of money hundreds of billions of dollars.

    They want land for the faithful.

    They get both!

    Deny Auschwitz you deny Israel.

    Without the halo of Auschwitz what would Israel be

    A bunch of shyster land grabbing terrorists

    A bunch of brutal ethno-supremacists who were allowed to develop nuclear weapons illegally

    Because of Auschwitz.

    This’s why they cling on so fiercely to their belief in the holocaust despite mounting evidence that the alleged genocide was utterly shambolic if not a downright scam.

    And where mostly does this mounting evidence of this ” utterly shambolic if not a downright scam.” come from.

    Auschwitz

    Thank you for your gracious

    I’m perfectly willing to grant that that Auschwitz was primarily a labor camp

    I don’t need anything else!

  2066. @Anonymous

    Well, there’s no business like Shoah business, right?

  2067. JackOH says:

    Possible academic debate question: Is the use of the term “Holocaust”, or any other aggregating term to sum up the persecution of European Jews during the 1933-1945 period, an impediment to historical scholarship and reasoned debate? Well, it’s a thought, I suppose.

    • Replies: @Dube
  2068. Dube says:
    @JackOH

    JackOH says [#2104]:

    Possible academic debate question: Is the use of the term “Holocaust”, or any other aggregating term to sum up the persecution of European Jews during the 1933-1945 period, an impediment to historical scholarship and reasoned debate? Well, it’s a thought, I suppose.

    Jack, what one sees currently in some careful usage is the phrase, “Holocaust (Shoah).”

    Yet, pertinent are the words of Czeslaw Milosz, from his acceptance speech for his 1980 Nobel Prize for Literature:

    “For the poet of the ‘other Europe’ the events embraced by the name of the Holocaust are a reality, so close in time that he cannot hope to liberate himself from their remembrance unless, perhaps, by translating the Psalms of David. He feels anxiety, though, when the meaning of the word Holocaust undergoes gradual modifications, so that the word begins to belong to the history of the Jews exclusively, as if among the victims there were not also millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians and prisoners of other nationalities. He feels anxiety, for he senses in this a foreboding of a not distant future when history will be reduced to what appears on television, while the truth, as it is too complicated, will be buried in the archives, if not totally annihilated.”

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @JackOH
  2069. Soon to come from the Unz Review

    American Pravda: Who Really Ran the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade

    If we’re already sacrificing sacred cows, this is a really big one.

    To put it in historical context, it could also be billed as ‘The re-allocation of capital from Mediterranean Slavery to Trans-Atlantic Slavery’

    A useful follow up piece could examine the prevalence of human trafficking operations headquartered in Israel, requisite money-laundering operations as well as a foray into organ trafficking (via the New York City-Tel Aviv organ shuttle).

  2070. Wally says:
    @Dube

    quoted:
    “as if among the victims there were not also millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians and prisoners of other nationalities.”

    Pathetic.
    Everybody wants in on the gravy train and the ‘woe is me’ victim status.
    The facts are that “millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians and prisoners of other nationalities” were not murdered. As with Jews, there simply is no proof they were.

    Please present proof if you can.

    BTW, Czeslaw Milosz was a WWII communist and a supporter of Zionism.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Dube
  2071. vinteuil says: • Website

    RKU just doesn’t seem to do serious responses to serious criticism. David Cole at Takimag, Gregory Cochran at West Hunter…he just ignores them.

  2072. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon

    RKU just doesn’t seem to do serious responses to serious criticism. David Cole at Takimag, Gregory Cochran at West Hunter…he just ignores them.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2516030

    He didn’t ignore Cole.

    Cole was, apparently, too much of a coward to send the following insulting email directly to Mr. Unz, after Mr. Unz had replied back to him:

    Cole to Unz (unsent, because why bother?)

    http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5908 Archived link: http://archive.is/ebHUa#selection-411.0-411.42

    Treblinka Commandant Franz says it was an extermination camp.

    http://archive.is/ebHUa#selection-843.0-843.61

    This interview and “confession” with Kurt Franz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Franz is a joke. He doesn’t even know what he is talking about when describing the camp setup and supposed extermination process in Treblinka:

    Interview with last Treblinka commander Kurt Franz (German)

    Here some Google translated comments from underneath the video, by Germans that are also skeptical of his account/confession:

    [MORE]

    Anderer Name
    2 months ago (edited)
    Ich habe den Eindruck er hat sich diese Geschichten so lange erzählt, das er sich seine eigene Lügen glaubt. Als ob ein SS Mann/ Kommandant nicht wusste was in seinem Lager passiert.
    […]
    I have the impression he has told these stories for so long that he believes his own lies. As if an SS man / commander did not know what happened in his camp.

    BountyhunterKlepto
    1 month ago
    Für einen Kommandanten hat er allem Anschein nach gar zu wenig gewusst zu haben. Entweder deutet das auf katastrophal und beispiellos schlechte Führung hin, die man sich in der Organisation der SS nur schwer vorstellen kann, oder daraufhin, dass er schlicht gelogen hat.
    […]
    For a commander, he seems to have known too little. Either that indicates catastrophic and unprecedentedly bad leadership, which is hard to imagine in the organization of the SS, or that he simply lied.


    Joe Lionheart

    2 months ago
    Er konnte ja nichts anderes sagen. Für Hafterleichterungen anstelle von Folter u Todesstrafe würde ich auch alles erzählen.Man kennt das aus den malmedy Prozessen.
    […]
    He could not say anything else. For detention facilities instead of torture and death penalty, I would also tell everything. One knows that from the malmedy processes.

    Alexander Prinz
    2 months ago
    Zu dieser Zeit war er schon Freigänger. Er war die letzten Jahre seines Lebens ein freier Mann.
    […]
    At this time he was already a free-lance. He was a free man in the last years of his life.

    A search of his home found a photo album of Treblinka with the title, “Beautiful Years”.[15]

    At the Treblinka Trials in 1965, Franz denied having ever killed a person, having ever set his dog on a Jew, and claimed to have only beaten a prisoner once.[16] On 3 September he was found guilty of collective murder of at least 300,000 people, 35 counts of murder involving at least 139 people, and for attempted murder. He was sentenced to life imprisonment.[5] He was released in 1993 for health reasons. Kurt Franz died in Wuppertal in 1998.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Franz#Post-war_trial_and_conviction

    Dr. W. Pfannenstiel, Professor of Medicine at Marburg, had been sent to Belzec and other camps as medical adviser to improve hygiene and health care in the camps. After the war, he was repeatedly interrogated regarding his visit to Belzec with Gerstein. He was charged in two cases but never convicted. In the court-room statements, which are available to us, he never directly disputed Gerstein’s account, but in a private letter he described the Gerstein Statement as “highly dubious rubbish in which ‘fantasy’ far outweighs fact.” He also wrote that due to the persecution and slander to which he was exposed, he did not wish to comment further on the matter publicly. In other words, Pfannenstiel had clearly tried to avoid further trouble for himself. The ‘whole truth’ would have been too much for his prosecutors to bear. – Letter from Pfannenstiel to P. Rassinier, dated Aug. 3, 1963, published in W. Stäglich, U. Walendy, “NS-Bewältigung”, Historische Tatsachen no. 5, Historical Review Press, Southam (GB) 1979, p. 20.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerstein_Report#cite_ref-12

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  2073. Anon[100] • Disclaimer says:

    “Prove what? The laughable ‘Nazi gas chambers’ did not exist, that’s it. And you can’t show me I’m wrong. the burden of proof: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
    After all, you’re the one making claims about millions killed in impossible ‘gas chambers’, not me. LOL”

    That’s not how burden of proof works. There are thousands of eyewitness testimonies, pictures, bodies, and population figures that show something happened. Therefore, the burden of proof lies on you to show that this is all somehow wrong. You haven’t. You’ve misrepresented the facts, you’ve made points that have been debunked, and you have linked to conspiracy theory websites. That’s all you’ve done.

    “Those fake pictures from Jews are meant to support your absurd holocaust’ claims, not Bigfoot or Loch Ness. Only liars need fake pictures.”

    You really believe all those pictures, produced long before modern computers, were faked? You don’t think some expert would have pointed out by now that they are fake with modern technology?

    “The problem for your ‘the Nazi cremations were different’ means that ‘the Nazis’ could defy laws of science. Oh those ‘magical Nazis’. LOL”

    Not really. All that was pointed out was that the man’s eyewitness testimony lined up with science. It could have happened the way he described it. You guys said it couldn’t have, so I proved you wrong. The difference between your typical American funeral home cremation process and what was described lies not with a discrepancy in the fundamental physical laws of the universe but merely with the application of known techniques.

    “Everything that has been claimed by “The Holocau$T Industry” has been scientifically debunked. Show me where I’m wrong …. if you can. Walk the walk, little Zionist boy.”

    That’s a pretty broad statement. Somehow, I don’t want to bet the farm on it. There are pictures, after all.

    “So then, tell us how your ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked. LOL”

    I’m not Jewish. Just a random observer on the internet. And as pointed out above, it wouldn’t have been difficult to accomplish this feat with a steam chamber.

    “I don’t know much about Roswell, you apparently do. LOL”

    Somehow, I think we’d all be better off if you spent more of your time with Roswell conspiracies and less of it on kooky internet sites.

    “Please show us the alleged immense human remains that Jew “historians” claim exist in supposedly known locations. Oops!”

    …but there are pictures of the bodies. Something seems to have happened.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @annamaria
  2074. Dube says:
    @Wally

    See again, Walter. The testimony of the 1980 Nobelist for Literature is that the extension of the term “Holocaust” has been altered. And that is my point.

    “For the poet of the ‘other Europe’ the events embraced by the name of the Holocaust are a reality, so close in time that he cannot hope to liberate himself from their remembrance unless, perhaps, by translating the Psalms of David. He feels anxiety, though, when the meaning of the word Holocaust undergoes gradual modifications, so that the word begins to belong to the history of the Jews exclusively, as if among the victims there were not also millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians and prisoners of other nationalities. He feels anxiety, for he senses in this a foreboding of a not distant future when history will be reduced to what appears on television, while the truth, as it is too complicated, will be buried in the archives, if not totally annihilated.”

    Your comments otherwise are interesting and I thank you.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2075. Wally says:
    @Anon

    – Nope. That IS how burden of proof works, that how rational rules of jurisprudence work, regardless of you ignorant attempt at spin.
    You’re the one making claims that ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ were murdered, the onus is upon you to prove it. I know, logic doesn’t apply to True Believers. LOL

    – What “eyewitness testimonies”? I notice that you refuse to say specifically what they actually said in their own words. We know why. You dodge as usual.
    What they and you claim are scientifically impossible. That proves that I am right.

    – Again, you cannot specifically show how I have misrepresented anything. You dodge as usual. LOL

    – Yes, a blind man can see those photos are faked and / or laughably, intentionally mislabeled. Indeed the lack of computers back them make that all the more obvious today.
    fake photo of alleged Babi Yar mass shooting:
    – And, as expected, you do what irrational True believers always do, you lie. The cremations alleged of the Germans were scientifically impossible, the claimed numbers could not be achieved in today’s crematoriums; as Ron Unz says:

    “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”.

    LOL
    Your eyewitnesses, which again you fail to name & state specifically what they supposedly said (we know why) are necessarily lying since what they claim is simply impossible:

    According to acclaimed & so called “holocaust eyewitness” Henryk Tauber, corpses could be cremated in 5-7 minutes.

    – You can’t explain how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ worked because the claims about them are scientifically impossible. So of course you can’t explain them. But you do faithfully ‘believe’. LOL

    – Jews claim that immense, millions upon millions, human remains exist in known locations. Yet you cannot show them. We know why. See photos, information etc. in my comment #1387 above.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re True Believers.’

    You said: “Something seems to have happened.”
    Yes, it’s called WWII where the Germans did nothing worse than the Allies.

    You’re cognitive dissonance has the best of you. You’re in over your head.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2076. Wally says:
    @Dube

    Yes, I realize that.

    But his “millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians and prisoners of other nationalities” are lies. That was my point.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Dube
  2077. JackOH says:
    @Dube

    Dube, thanks.

    I’m guessing there’s some sort of case to be made by a disinterested academic that conventional Holocaust scholarship is tainted by rigidity, partisanship, and anti-liberality. As a non-scholar, I’m not sure that case is strong enough to rise to the level of a public questioning. But, I think there’s some case to be made.

    Plus, I think it may be useful to think of the conventional Holocaust narrative as arising from an identifiable Holocaust school of thought, while revisionists and denialists may be said to constitute another, different school of thought. I’m thinking here of the distinction that I think is still made that differentiates Protestant scholars who study the historical critter called the Protestant Reformation, from Roman Catholic scholars who study the same historical critter as a schism within the universal church.

    • Replies: @Dube
  2078. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    More from David Cole’s “Ron Unz Annoys David Cole (a tragedy in three acts)”:

    Treblinka Commandant Stangl says it was an extermination camp
    Treblinka Commandant Franz says it was an extermination camp.
    Treblinka SS guard Suchomel says it was an extermination camp.

    http://archive.is/ebHUa#selection-839.0-847.62

    I also had a look at the Franz Stangl and the Franz Suchomel testimonies and confessions, etc. Each of these individuals has a “Franz” in their name, by the way.

    Franz Stangl, for example, conveniently died only 19 hours after “he finally admitted his guilt”, even though he had appealed his sentencing:

    Into That Darkness (also following an initial article for the Telegraph magazine) was an examination of the guilt of Franz Stangl, the commandant of the Treblinka and Sobibor extermination camps.[9] She spent 70[10] hours interviewing him in prison for the article and when she had finished he finally admitted his guilt; he died of a heart attack nineteen hours later.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitta_Sereny#Books

    He was sentenced to life imprisonment, and died in prison on 28 June 1971, during the appeal case.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_trials#Second_Treblinka_trial

    Gitta Sereny, who interviewed him, unlike Willem Sassen when he interviewed Eichmann https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2497165 , did not record her interview with Stangl:

    Mattogno about Gitta Sereny in his book “Treblinka”:

    Her book as a historic source is totally worthless, because the author could not bring a trace of proof that Stangl actually made those remarks as she said; an audio tape of the interview does not exist.

    And then he quoted the French revisionist Pierre Guillaume who had a discussion with G. Sereny:

    Guillaume:
    “I read your book several times, some passages even often. During the first reading one cannot doubt the truth of the described events nor the reality of Stangl’s confession. But the more I went through the text the larger became my surprise not so much of what I read, but what was evidently missing what one would have expected to find. The passages where Stangl confesses were without exception written in an indirect or ambiguous style, so that it became impossible to differentiate within these passages what Stangl and what Sereny said.
    In other words: He did not confess!”

    Sereny: “But of course not… he couldn’t!”

    (The rest of Mattogno’s comments about Gitta I better leave out)

    http://archive.is/Kl6F3#selection-861.0-893.65

    The Franz Suchomel testimony is also questionable, more on it here:

    By Jean-Francois Beaulieu

    SS-Unterscharführer Franz Suchomel is an important witness who is said to confirm the reality of mass gassings, in his case regarding the alleged extermination camp Treblinka. Claude Lanzmann, a French Jew and filmmaker, succeeded to get a 850,000$ subvention from the Israeli government in 1977[1] to produce a holocaust ‘documentary’ whose aim was mainly to convince skeptics in a period where revisionism had started to be a concern for some people. Subsequently, additional funds were provided by the French government and private sources. The film was finished only in 1985, 8 years later.

    In the movie’s acknowledgment section, no word is uttered about the fact that it received massive funding from Israel. And what is even more revealing, no word is mentioned either that all the German witnesses that agreed to participate as witnesses in this movie received 3,000 DM, but had to agree not to reveal this fact for 30 years.[2] Thus, the German witnesses ‘testified’ for money.

    http://archive.is/XKsyl#selection-489.0-497.390

    Part 1/7 – Interview with a nazi ss officer – franz suchomel – Discussion of treblinka gas
    chambers

    Also, David Cole’s analogy comparing Jews/The Allies to The Confederacy is dumb and ahistorical, in my opinion, since Jews/The Allies were the victors whereas The Confederacy were the vanquished in their respective conflicts/wars:

    Why is it suspicious to you that Holocaust history as a major field of research didn’t begin until after the war, and that the Holocaust has grown in importance to Jews in the decades since? If you know your high-falutin’ American history, you’d know that many of the Confederate statues and monuments currently under attack in the South were built NOT during or immediately after the war, but in the 1920s or thereabout, when there arose a renewed nostalgia among Southern whites to commemorate the “cause.”

    So does the fact that serious commemoration didn’t begin until many decades after the war mean there was no Confederacy?

    This is just how things work, Ron. In the immediate aftermath of ANY war, you don’t get the good history books or the best monuments. People are generally FAR more concerned with repairing their damaged lives and communities.

    http://archive.is/ebHUa#selection-213.0-221.225

    The equivalent of this Confederacy analogy and an accurate comparison for World War 2 would be if Germany and Germans had started erecting statues and monuments to honor and commemorate Hitler, Rommel, the Waffen SS, et al. after the German reunification in the 1990s.

    Why would the victors of a conflict wait 40 some years to honor and commemorate their fallen and victims in a war/conflict they won, especially if their country, the U.S., was not completely devastated by the war/conflict!?

    The National World War I Museum and Memorial opened, for example, in 1926: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_World_War_I_Museum_and_Memorial

    The National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific was established in 1949: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Memorial_Cemetery_of_the_Pacific

    The USS Arizona Memorial was built in 1962: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Arizona_Memorial

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2079. Anonymous [AKA "Real In My Mind"] says:

    I spent many years going back and forth on this topic and have concluded that the standard narrative isn’t true. Mostly, the lack of physical evidence and the findings from Leuchter settled it for me, along with the lurid tales and repeating themes recounted by witnesses.

    I believe that the unaccounted for people eneded-up mostly in Russia – and there are media reports to support that opinion.

    Stories about people being turned into soap were also used in WWI and are now dismissed by historians, but I distinctly remember watching a BBC doccumentary in the late 90’s in which soap “remains” were ceremonially buried in a graveyard.

    Largely, the entire story seems to rest on eye-witness accounts, suspect confessions and questionable doccuments. I remain, however, open to persuasion by new physical evidence.

  2080. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    I believe Liberation, but I could be mistaken, was the first official, major Holocaust memorial on U.S. soil, and it was dedicated in 1985.

    Ike died in 1969 and the Days of Remembrance of the Victims of the Holocaust resolution was passed in 1979.

    In 1984, the long-term efforts of a Navy Jewish chaplain, Rabbi Arnold Resnicoff, to convince the Department of Defense to participate in the national DRVH were successful. For a number of years he had been making the case at many levels of military leadership that General Eisenhower had already initiated a remembrance program when, after U.S. forces liberated Ohrdruf (a sub-camp of Buchenwald), Eisenhower called for reporters from the U.S. and U.K. to document evidence of the Holocaust,[citation needed] so that, Eisenhower said, the time would never come when such atrocities could be denied, and reports about them could be regarded as mere propaganda. Additionally, Eisenhower’s words — that the American GI did not always understand what he was fighting for, so he should see this evidence, to understand, at least, what he was fighting against [4]—became, Resnicoff successfully argued, the foundation of an historic military effort to remember and learn from the Holocaust that today’s military had the duty to honor and carry on.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_Remembrance_of_the_Victims_of_the_Holocaust#Military_participation

    Why didn’t Ike push for such a resolution and memorial when he was President, if he believed and knew that 6 million Jews perished in the Holocaust?

    Was he an anti-Semite and is Mr. Unz correct?

    Given that the Holocaust would reasonably rank as the single most remarkable episode of the Second World War, such striking omissions must almost force us to place Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle among the ranks of “implicit Holocaust Deniers.”

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#p_1_65:1-39

    Incidentally and interestingly enough, Thomas H. Kean

    The Liberty Park Monument Committee, formed by New Jersey Governor Thomas H. Kean, was tasked with raising funds for a monument “to honor American servicemen as liberators of oppressed peoples.” The official State resolution issued on the day of the monument’s dedication noted that, “our service members fought, not to conquer or to be aggressors, but rather to rescue and restore freedom to those persecuted and oppressed by the fascist powers.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_(Holocaust_memorial)#Background

    also

    is best known globally, however, for his 2002 appointment as Chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, widely known as the 9/11 Commission, which was responsible for investigating the causes of the September 11, 2001 attacks and providing recommendations to prevent future terrorist attacks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kean

    and his son is a “Friend of Israel”:

    WORTH NOTING; Tom Kean Jr. To Head to Israel

    https://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/nyregion/worth-noting-tom-kean-jr-to-head-to-israel.html

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_(Holocaust_memorial)

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2081. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    “You’ve misrepresented the facts. … Something seems to have happened.”
    — Yes. The WWII has happened. Massive casualties of civilians — and the military. See the war crime against Drezden. See the war crime against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. See the siege of St Petersburg/Leningrad.

    Do you, Anon[100], want to assume a pose of a superior moral being? – Then try to ponder the context:
    1. Only one ethnic group made a business on the WWII tragedy
    2. The same ethnic group has been successful in criminalizing any kind of research into WWII when the research deviates from the dogmas established by the business
    3. The same ethnic group has been practicing collective punishment, land theft, and mass murder of the native Palestinians (including children), while producing the most disgusting warmongers in the US/UK/Israel.
    It is not for nothing that the ongoing illegal wars (mass slaughter) in the Middle East are called the Wars for Israel.

  2082. Dube says:
    @JackOH

    Jack, I fully agree with your assessment [2114].

    I’m not an historian, but I think that the professionals see this as a problem of “ethnohistory” in contrast to “universal” interpretation. I have seen those terms bounced around a bit. However that, I like your decision to try standing outside to see what categories appear.

  2083. Dube says:
    @Wally

    Surely, accuracy with the numbers must be an ongoing requisite. Also I’d like to see a review of the history of the term, “Holocaust.” For as the term has changed, it seems that the numbers change.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2084. @J. Masterson

    Regarding this statement in my previous comment:

    The prosecution eyewitnesses all fell apart on cross-examination, and Hilberg was forced to admit that he not only relied on a single untrustworthy document for his account on Auschwitz, but that he concealed the problems in his source material from his audience (see the Kurt Gerstein affidavit).

    I have since read Hilberg’s book, and it appears that Hoffman may have overstated Hilberg’s reliance on the Gerstein affidavit. Hopefully this will be corrected in a later edition.

    However, Hoffman’s book is still an outstanding read.

  2085. Wally says:
    @J. Masterson

    said:
    “I have since read Hilberg’s book, and it appears that Hoffman may have overstated Hilberg’s reliance on the Gerstein affidavit. ”

    Please give us a quote from Hoffman that indicates he “overstated Hilberg’s reliance on the Gerstein affidavit.”

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2086. Wally says:
    @Dube

    See my comment #684 above for the ‘ever changing numbers at Auschwitz’.

    The total numbers alleged have also changed drastically, but more important is the fact that Jews have been pushing their fake ‘6,000,000’ since at least 1823.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2087. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    I made some highly interesting new discoveries about the alleged author of the (in)famous “Höfle Telegram (or Hoefle Telegram)” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram , “Hermann Julius Höfle About this sound pron. also Hans (or) Hermann Hoefle (19 June 1911 – 21 August 1962)[1] was an Austrian-born SS commander and Holocaust perpetrator during the Nazi era.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_H%C3%B6fle , that I was not aware of previously, see here:

    On 31 May 1945 Höfle was found hiding in Möslacher Alm near the Weissensee Lake in Carinthia (Southern Austria) by the British, along with SS storm troopers Ernst Lerch and Georg Michalsen. After two years in the British interrogation center Wolfsberg (Carinthia), he was released to the Austrian judicial system. On 30 October 1947, under oath, he was released to continue his earlier occupation as an auto mechanic in his birthplace, Salzburg.

    After an extradition request on 9 July 1948 by the Polish government, he fled to Italy, where he lived under a false name until 1951. Later he returned to Austria and then emigrated to the Federal Republic of Germany. There he was employed briefly as an informant for U.S. Army Counterintelligence.

    Höfle returned to Salzburg, where he lived as a free man until 2 January 1961, when he was arrested by the Austrian authority and sent to prison in Vienna, where in 1962 he hanged himself before his trial could begin.[7]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_H%C3%B6fle#After_the_war

    I think his links to the British and U.S. intelligence services are highly significant, and I will elaborate on those below.

    I also don’t know if he took his own life in prison or was “suicided”, but the time/timing of his death is interesting, even suspicious, in my opinion.

    He took his own life or died of another cause only a couple of weeks after Adolf Eichmann had been executed in Israel.

    In my opinion, if he indeed committed suicide it must have been because he probably did not want to be subjected to similar treatment and a show trial as/like Eichmann. Maybe he did not want his family and friends to know the extent to which he was involved in war crimes and crimes against humanity, etc., i.e. he really committed suicide due to guilt or shame, etc.

    An alternative explanation could be that he was “suicided”/murdered because his testimony could have debunked and undermined the Eichmann trial and case. Since he was in Austrian custody and not Israeli custody the trial might have been fairer, etc. The same could have happened to Franz Stangl as I mentioned above “Franz Stangl, for example, conveniently died only 19 hours after “he finally admitted his guilt”, even though he had appealed his sentencing” – https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2517842 :

    Eichmann, for example, was willing to go back to Germany to face trial there, according to some historians:

    Adolf Eichmann wanted to return to Germany, historian claims

    In the letter to Adenauer, Eichmann, aged 50, suggests he should be allowed home to tell the young people of Germany what really happened under Hitler.

    “How long fate will allow me to live, I don’t know, but I know that someone has to be the one to tell future generations about these events,” he says, neglecting to mention that “these events” involved the mass murder of millions of people. “I had a big role in leading and directing these programmes,” he adds.
    […]
    “He wanted to be put on trial in Germany and give his version of events. Of course, if that had happened, he would have been given a very different trial from the one he got in Jerusalem. There was no death penalty in Germany by then, so he would certainly not have been executed.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/11/eichmann-sought-trial-germany-1956

    Now we come to the “Höfle Telegram (or Hoefle Telegram)” and Höfle’s links to British and U.S. intelligence.

    I had always believed that the telegram was authentic, but unlike David Irving, who believes there is a 20% chance, I actually believe now that there is a 80% chance that it is a forgery:

    She omits my warning that although I am eighty percent convinced by the Hermann Höfle document (above), by my own cursory forensic examination of ink, paper, and typewriter, there is still a twenty percent chance that it is a forgery: the misspelling of Reinhardt (as Reinhart), the wrong math, the possibility that the authors simply worked backwards from a well-known figure (1,274,166) in the Korherr report of April 1943 (right) in order to authenticate it, the unusual lack of any register-number or date for the originating query (“Betr.:…”) , the prominence of the names involved (Eichmann himself), the top state-secret classification GEHEIME REICHSSACHE found only once elsewhere by me so far in the tens of thousands of otherwise overwhelmingly trivial decodes, the five-page document somehow being bound into the archive file out of page-sequence (5, 1, 2, 3, 4): these are just some of the anomalies unique to the Höfle document

    http://archive.is/AhWKq#selection-317.0-345.278 and http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/Irving/RadDi/2007/051007.html

    This is another suspicious/odd anomaly:

    Another possible anomaly a friend called my attention to
    re this telegram is this;
    It’s strange that Höfle would sign as “Hoefle, Sturmbannführer’.
    Why “Hoefle” and not “Höfle”? The umlaut could not be the
    problem since we have “Ä” and “Ü” in the telegram.

    http://archive.is/Aqqx3#selection-1161.0-1169.50

    I also find the convenient “discovery” of the telegram around the same time as the ruling in David Irving v Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt case highly suspicious:

    The judgment was presented on 11 April 2000, although the lawyers had received the decision 24 hours earlier.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd#Ruling

    The Höfle Telegram (or Hoefle Telegram) is a cryptic one-page document, discovered in 2000 among the declassified World War II archives of the Public Record Office in Kew, England.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram

    In summary:

    Having Herman Höfle be interrogated by the British for two years and him later working for U.S. intelligence makes me even more suspicious of the official Holocaust narrative, and in particular the Operation Reinhardt camps portion of it, than I was before.

    Why wouldn’t the British have found out about his alleged crimes when he was in their custody for two years, and why would U.S. intelligence hire and collaborate with a known mass murderer like him in the 1950s, when the Holocaust narrative and research was already quite advanced and the identities of the camp staff was probably already know, especially in/to intelligence circles!?

    It just does not make sense to me…

  2088. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    See my comments #103 & 1737 above which further debunk the impossible claims made about the Hoefle Telegram.

    Thanks.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    “Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.”

    http://www.codoh.com

  2089. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Typos: … around the same time as the ruling in *the* David Irving v Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt case highly suspicious andthe identities of the camp staff was probably already *known*, especially in/to intelligence circles

    Very interesting reads, which seem to point to a “win-win”-weapons-and-money-for-the-protection-of-the-reputation-of-high-level-German-government-officials deal between the Israeli and the West-German (Adenauer) governments regarding the Eichmann trial, and which further confirm, in my opinion, Mr. Unz’s point of view that the U.S. government, including Eisenhower, did not believe and buy into the “official” Holocaust narrative and 6-million -victim figure.

    This is just speculation on my part, but I really believe, especially after his unhinged attack on Mr. Unz, that David Cole is a Holocaust research gatekeeper, and potentially, or even probably, an Israeli intelligence asset.

    West Germany’s Efforts to Influence the Eichmann Trial

    The 1961 trial in Israel of Holocaust organizer Adolf Eichmann was a global sensation. But it made West Germany nervous. Chancellor Konrad Adenauer was afraid the trial could expose the Nazi pasts of government officials in Bonn. And his government did everything it could to influence the proceedings.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-holocaust-in-the-dock-west-germany-s-efforts-to-influence-the-eichmann-trial-a-756915.html

    Ignoring the Holocaust

    This was the situation in 1960 and 1961: Israel had put Eichmann on trial to galvanize its own young people and the world public. The crime of a century had only played a secondary role in the Nuremberg trials and, 15 years after the end of the war, threatened to fall into oblivion.

    The German government, for its part, sought to create the impression that the Holocaust was no longer an issue.
    […]
    The intelligence service had learned that Eichmann, while still in Argentina, had already given two journalists extensive interviews. For months, BND sources and employees tried to get hold of the transcripts. But a few weeks after the Eichmann kidnapping, the magazine Life was already ahead of them. When the BND finally found out about it, a senior BND official asked a CIA counterpart whether it would be helpful for the German government to lean on Washington so that the US government would “suppress” publication of the story.

    The CIA advised against this approach, noting that this was something not even the US government could do. The Americans apparently had a different understanding of the vaunted principle of freedom of the press in a free country.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-holocaust-in-the-dock-west-germany-s-efforts-to-influence-the-eichmann-trial-a-756915-3.html

    His situation only became precarious when investigators working with the Nuremberg war crimes trials interrogated Wilhelm Höttl, a close friend of Eichmann. US investigators had learned that Höttl, in the POW camp, had talked about a 1944 meeting with Eichmann in Budapest. Together, the two men had downed a bottle of Hungarian schnapps. “Tell me Adolf, how many Jews were really murdered?” Höttl asked Eichmann, according to his testimony. Four million in the extermination camps and two million by other means, Eichmann replied. This response was later read out loud in court. It was the first reliable assessment of the scope of the Holocaust, and it made headlines in the New York Times.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-triumph-of-justice-on-the-trail-of-holocaust-organizer-adolf-eichmann-a-754133-2.html

    Höttl was also an U.S. intelligence asset, an highly unreliable one though, as the U.S. soon found out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_H%C3%B6ttl#Post-war


    Wilhelm Höttl and the Elusive ‘Six Million’

    Eichmann himself, it should be noted, later called the Höttl story “nonsense,” vigorously denied ever having made the alleged remark, and speculated that Höttl may have picked up the figure from a radio or newspaper report. / 9

    If it were not for Wilhelm Höttl’s role in branding into the world’s consciousness the trademark Six Million figure, his place in history would likely be little more than a footnote.
    […]
    In June 1949 one U.S. intelligence official cautioned against using Höttl for any reason, calling him “a man of such low character and poor political record that his use for intelligence activities, regardless of how profitable they may be, is a short-sighted policy by the U.S.” In August 1950, CIA messages referred to Höttl as a “notorious fabricator [of] intelligence.” A U.S. Army CIC report in early 1952 deemed his information useless, noting that Höttl “is involved in extensive intelligence activities for almost anyone who is willing to purchase his findings.” In April 1952 his reports were called “worthless and possibly inflated or fabricated.”

    Interestingly, numerous U.S. intelligence reports identify connections between Höttl and Simon Wiesenthal, the well-known “Nazi hunter.” One U.S. Army CIC document described Wiesenthal as the “Chief Austrian Agent of the Israeli Intelligence Bureau.” A U.S. Army CIC report in January 1950 noted that for the last three or four months Wiesenthal had “recruited the services of Wilhelm Höttl,” and had hired him to gather information for reports by the “Nazi hunter.”

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n5p25_Weber.html Archived link: http://archive.is/LRHN#selection-139.0-139.223

  2090. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    This is a post from David Irving from 2011, in which he declares that he, I guess, is 100% sure the telegram is authentic, because another document was discovered which mentioned/summarized the telegram/intercept.

    What I find a little curious is that Irving does not seem to be suspicious of this document, even though it might also be a forgery, especially since it was released after revisionists had raised doubts about the authenticity of the Höfle Telegram.

    I could be wrong, of course, and the document is indeed authentic, but somehow the release of this new document backing up the original Höfle Telegram feels like “damage control” to me:

    MY CONCLUSION is therefore that the intercepted Hermann Höfle signal is an authentic document, and that its content has not been reverse-engineered from the Korherr report; and that it is a pivotal document in the history of where the real Holocaust operations were taking place; and that this was not at Auschwitz — a site not even mentioned by the Korherr report incidentally — but in the Reinhardt sites along the Bug River in eastern Poland.

    In short, he is gullible, in my view, and I am not. But he is the one who found the Höfle telegram, and published a paper about it in Holocaust & Genocide Studies, a learned journal on which my good friend Dr John Fox also used to sit until … but that is another story. So, hats off to him.
    […]
    THEN, as my readers know, Steve Tyas mentioned he had more recently found another wartime British document referring to, and summarising, the Höfle document.

    That completely changed the picture, and I put my PRO request on hold, pending my own scrutiny of this new evidence. The new reference is in this folder (left), which was unfortunately released by Britain’s secret archives to the public domain only after Tyas’s original paper on the subject.

    Under III Miscellaneous in one of the monthly summaries in this piece is this concluding paragraph, after paragraphs (a) through (h):

    (i): Einsatz Reinhardt. SS und Pol.Fuehrer Lublin sends the Befehlshaber der Sipo Krakau a report on Einsatz Reinhardt for the 14 days up to 31.1.42. [sic] Increase to 31.12.42: L12761, B 0, S515, T 10335, altogether 23611. Totals on 31.12.42: L24733, B 434508, S 101370, T 71355: altogether 1274166 (355a 13).”

    [sic] is our comment. It should read 31.12.42. Note that there is no comment or interpretation whatever on this, and it is the last on a page of miscellaneous items, of very trivial matters.

    Here is a facsimile of the document and paragraph concerned. (Click image to enlarge):

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Hoefle_No2/Hoefle_doc_No2.html Archived link: http://archive.is/xXb0j

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2091. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    What is suspicious to me about this newly discovered summary of the Höfle Telegram is the way “Reinhardt” is spelled.

    In the original it is spelled, incorrectly, “Reinhart” with just a “t” at the end, which the revisionists pointed out as an anomaly “the misspelling of Reinhardt (as Reinhart)” https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2519607

    But in the newly discovered summary it is suddenly spelled, correctly, as Reinhardt, with a “dt” at the end.

    If British intelligence would have strictly stuck to the original, in my opinion, they should have spelled it with just a “t” at the end, even though that is an incorrect spelling.

    In another summary document cited by Irving it is spelled both Reinhardt and Reinhard, so British intelligence did not always spell it Reinhardt.

    The Einsatz Reinhardt [sic] (see O/S 6, iii.I) is probably referred to again: on 15 Sept. a car is sent from Auschwitz to Litzmannstadt to try out the fieldkitchens for the Aktion Reinhard [sic] 237b42.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2092. @FKA Max

    Yes, that’s a sure red flag that something’s not quite kosher (so to speak) with those documents. Indeed, many believers seem to think that the AR operation was named after Reinhard Heydrich (the Nazi #3 man), instead of Fritz Reinhardt, the Nazi finance minister. (FWIW Irving is right to characterize those camps
    as part of a massive “looting operation”.)

    • Replies: @j2
  2093. j2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    In Goebbels diary is the word liquidated, assuming it is Goebbels diary and not a forgery. 60% must be liquidated, 40% used for work. That is not in accordance with the official story of nearly 100% killed and a few to do the killing, so the sentence can be authentic. Liquidated usually means to turn to cash, to which looting fits well, (or selling. Not so much could be looted, I think.) It fits that Fritz Reinhardt was a finance minister. If Jews were not killed, and a number came to DP camps after 1946, so liquidated would probably not mean killing. What is the problem with accepting the Hoefle telegram? It only gives the figure of transported Jews, but the figure is believable. Is it that it is top secret? If so, only that classification may be added, but dealings of this type might have been top secret even without extermination. Of course it is strange to write the name without umlaut.

  2094. @FKA Max

    ‘zu Händen’, I’m not a German, but I’ve never seen this expression before

    • Replies: @j2
  2095. @Wally

    Can one imagine ten or so Germans, with rifles, killing, no idea how many, men and women patiently waiting until they had been hit ?
    Customary pictures show people standing on the edge of an open pit, mowed down by machine guns, so that they fall into the pit, far more efficiënt.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2096. j2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I think it is perfectly good German, To Attention of

  2097. @j2

    Sure. In truth, I’m agnostic on the question of Hoefle’s authenticity, although his connections to Anglo-American intelligence are interesting. The telegram itself does little more than corroborate Korherr so there is not much point in arguing against it, and at any rate no revisionist really disputes that something like 1.5M Jews were sent through these camps (the only dispute being over what is claimed to have happened to them there).

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2098. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    In Goebbels diary is the word liquidated, assuming it is Goebbels diary and not a forgery. 60% must be liquidated, 40% used for work. That is not in accordance with the official story of nearly 100% killed

    This is a very good point you are making, j2, and I’m glad you have decided to join the conversation again.

    There is another piece of information which, in my opinion, debunks that nearly 100% of Polish/Eastern Jews were liquidated.

    It is by Adolf Eichmann before he was captured by the Israelis and is presented by David Irving:

    The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers
    Presented at the Eleventh IHR Conference, October 1992
    By David Irving
    https://codoh.com/library/document/762/

    Round about 1958, he gets hold of the “memoirs” of Rudolf Höss, which were published by the Institute of Contemporary History in Munich in that year. Höss wrote these “memoirs” while he was in Krakow, in Polish captivity. They’ve always been a problem – let’s be frank about this – they’ve been a problem to Revisionists.

    Eichmann’s comments on the Höss memoirs are annihilating. Reading where Rudolf Höss is saying that two and a half million Jews have been liquidated at Auschwitz, the camp where he was commandant, Eichmann comments, “Where does Höss believe that he got these two and a half million Jews? Not from me. Because to have liquidated two and a half million decrepit, elderly, unworkable Jews, I must have had to feed to him three, four, five, six or seven million Jews in that space of time, and from the transport point of view alone this would have been totally impossible.”

    http://archive.is/i1R4t#selection-22899.0-22905.993

    If we go by these numbers from Eichmann about one-third (1/3) of Jews, on average, were not usable in slave/forced labor and would likely have been liquidated by the Germans/Nazis, not nearly 100% as the official narrative states and not even 60% as mentioned/speculated by Goebbels.

    “You’re not only going to have trains going that way full of Jews, you’re going to have empty trains coming back. And you’re going to have to have a circulation time, a time where they’re unloading at one end, a time where they’re loading at the other end… You’re going to need so many thousands of wagons” of rolling stock. He worked out exactly how much rolling stock would have been needed, in these memoirs, and he said, “This alone proves that Rudolf Höss was talking through his hat. These figures are totally fantastic, and what the hell is Höss up to?” That is a brief, lurid summary of what Eichmann writes as he’s sitting in what he believes to be safety in the underground in Argentina, reading these memoirs of Höss, published in 1958.

    Two years later, of course, Eichmann is kidnapped, so it’s during those two years that Eichmann is writing this. He mentions also in these memoirs how he received an indirect approach from Nahum Goldmann. Nahum Goldmann was one of the great Zionist leaders of the postwar era. Born in Lithuania and living for many years in Germany, he was the person who negotiated with Konrad Adenauer the billions of German marks which subsequently went to Israel. Eichmann mentions in these memoirs what purported to be an indirect approach from Goldmann, pleading with him to back up the six million figure. Anything he could do to support the six million figure, because the Zionists needed it. You are beginning to suspect, now, why these Eichmann memoirs should not be published.

    http://archive.is/i1R4t#selection-22911.0-22917.770

    Many people forget how vast the German/Nazi slave and forced labor operations were and how high the demand for such labor was, including Jewish slave/forced labor: “At its peak the forced labourers comprised 20% of the German work force. Counting deaths and turnover, about 15 million men and women were forced labourers at one point during the war.” – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II

    8 – The SS Organisation Schmelt and the Jews from Eastern Upper Silesia, 1940–1944

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/jewish-forced-labor-under-the-nazis/ss-organisation-schmelt-and-the-jews-from-eastern-upper-silesia-19401944/EB5EE8F636888DC193874E696AD0A9FD

    Interestingly, the Wikipedia page on “Dienststelle Schmelt” https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienststelle_Schmelt is only available in German, Polish and Dutch, not in English.

    This is from Yad Vashem:

    The Jewishness of the 350 young men was concealed from everyone around
    them. They underwent hasty, semi-military training, were issued uniforms,
    and were attached to a transport of laborers and engineers. Their story has
    been buried in the testimonies of the few who survived the frozen inferno and
    the labor and concentration camps to which they were sent after they returned
    from the front. This article probes the background to this transport—why Jews
    from eastern Upper Silesia were sent out in the guise of German employees
    of OT, and how they were associated with Operation Barbarossa. The
    transport of these Jews attests, above all, to the basic contradictions that
    riddled the Nazi administration’s decision-making process, especially with
    respect to Jews. – http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%202023.pdf Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20050330075530/http://www1.yadvashem.org:80/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%202023.pdf

    The Korherr Report also mentions the “Schmelt Organisation”

    4) In the Schmelt Organisation (Breslau) there are 50,570 Jews, of these 42,382 are stateless and 8,188 are foreign.

    http://archive.is/QFQIC#selection-7281.0-7285.78

    Page 13

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  2099. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Please show us these “customary pictures” of ‘people mowed down by machine guns’ that you allege.

    As if alleged top secret actions would have been allowed photographers. LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2100. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    j2 said:”In Goebbels diary is the word liquidated, assuming it is Goebbels diary and not a forgery. 60% must be liquidated, 40% used for work. That is not in accordance with the official story of nearly 100% killed”

    you said:
    “This is a very good point you are making, j2, and I’m glad you have decided to join the conversation again.”

    Please prove that ‘liquidated’ meant murder. see:
    A Lucky Child, A Review By Thomas Dalton : https://codoh.com/library/document/3108/?lang=en
    exc.:

    “Perhaps the most notorious occurrence was in Goebbels’ diary entry of March 27, 1942, in which he wrote that “60 percent [of the Jews in the General Government] will have to be liquidated.” Rudolf and other revisionists have responded that ‘liquidation’ meant simply ‘elimination or removal’, not mass murder. Buergenthal evidently agrees. He writes, “The ghetto was being liquidated, or, in the words bellowing out of the loudspeakers, “Ausseidlung! Ausseidlung!” (“Evacuation! Evacuation!).” And somewhat later: “After the liquidation of the labor camp, we were divided into two groups…” Obviously, not murder.”

    said:
    “If we go by these numbers from Eichmann about one-third (1/3) of Jews, on average, were not usable in slave/forced labor and would likely have been liquidated by the Germans/Nazis, not nearly 100% as the official narrative states and not even 60% as mentioned/speculated by Goebbels. ”

    Eichmann? Seriously?
    See his absurdities shotdown in my comment #1492, ‘ ON THE BOGUS & ABSURD EICHMANN “CONFESSIONS”.

    I challenge you and the discredited j2 to proof that ANY % of innocent Jews were murdered, anywhere, any way by the Germans.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2101. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I just had another look at the Korherr Report, specifically the shortened/abridged version https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/korherr-kurz.php and http://archive.is/dmSj#selection-295.0-317.135 which was presented to Hitler, and even if we assume that about 1.7 milllion Jews have been sent through Operation Reinhardt camps and that they were all killed there, Korherr’s figures still don’t add up to 6 million Jews killed by Germans/Nazis.

    European Jewish Statistics

    These figures indicate that the Jewish population of Europe has already been reduced by 4 million. On the European continent (after Russia with c. 4 million) only Hungary (750,000, Rumania (302,000) and possibly France have large Jewish populations.

    In addition to the abovementioned figures, if one takes into account the Jewish emigration, the excess mortality in the non-German countries of Middle and Western Europe and the unavoidable double-counting due to the fluctuation of the Jews, then the reduction of the Jewish population of Europe from 1937 to the beginning of 1943 could be estimated at 4 and a half million.

    Moreover, it was not possible to count all the deaths of the Soviet – Russian Jews in the occupied Eastern Territories while those in the remaining European part of Russia and on the front have not been included at all.

    In addition to this there are masses of Jews who have fled from European Russia to Asian Russia and the emigration of Jews from the European countries outside German influence abroad is a largely unknown quantity.

    Altogether, European Jewry must have been reduced by almost half since 1933, that is to say, during the first decade of the development of power of National Socialism.

    Again half, that is a quarter of the total Jewish population of 1937, has fled to other countries.

    http://archive.is/QFQIC#selection-12561.0-12645.98

    He estimates that the European Jewish population in 1937 was about:

    In 1937 10.3 million (60%) were living in Europe and 5.1 million (30%) in America.

    http://archive.is/QFQIC#selection-9229.0-9229.82

    In 1943 (see above quote), he estimates that 4 million Jews are in Russia and about 1 million in Hungary and Romania.

    He states “then the reduction of the Jewish population of Europe from 1937 to the beginning of 1943 could be estimated at 4 and a half million.” and “Again half, that is a quarter of the total Jewish population of 1937, has fled to other countries.

    If I understand him correctly of the 4.5 million population reduction figure half, about 2.2 million, fled to other countries, presumably outside of Europe, so that would not include Russia, Hungary and Romania, since he seems to include Russia as part of European continent “On the European continent (after Russia with c. 4 million) only Hungary (750,000, Rumania (302,000) and possibly France have large Jewish populations.”

    So we started out, in 1937, with 10.3 million in Europe (includes Russia).

    In early 1943 we are left with about 4 million in Russia, 1 million in Hungary and Romania, and 2.2 million “of the total Jewish population of 1937, has fled to other countries[presumably not on the European continent].”

    10.3 million
    -4.0 Russia
    -1.0 Hungary and Romania
    -2.2 “fled to other countries”
    = 3.1 million

    So, even if we assume that the Germans/Nazis killed every single Jew of those 3.1 milllion in their occupied territories and every single Jew in Hungary and Romania this would put the figure at about 4.1 million, about 30% lower than the 6 million figure.

    And this is the absolute worst case scenario, assuming they really wanted to and managed to kill every single Jewish person in the territories under their control at the time.

    Insgesamt dürfte das europäische Judentum seit 1933, also
    im ersten Jahrzehnt der nationalsozialistischen Machtent-
    faltung, bald die Hälfte seines Bestandes verloren haben.
    Davon ist wieder nur etwa die Hälfte, also ein Viertel des
    europäischen Gesamtbestandes von 1937, den anderen Erdtei-
    len zugeflossen.

    English translation:
    Altogether, European Jewry must have been reduced by almost half since 1933, that is to say, during the first decade of the development of power of National Socialism.
    Again half, that is a quarter of the total Jewish population of 1937, has fled to other countries. http://archive.is/QFQIC#selection-12627.0-12645.98

    Source: https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/faksimile-kurz/korherr-kurz-07.php

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  2102. Wally says:

    Everyone, please note that FKA Max dodged yet another challenge to his assertions, see that challenge in my comment #2138 above.

    Also see my comment #1074 and read what Richard Korherr himself said about this report.

    Science doesn’t bend to the will of Jews just because they wish it.

    No immense human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2103. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Wally

    Wally,

    I’m not dodging your challenges, I just don’t find them very challenging and interesting, and that is why I mostly don’t reply to them or you. I didn’t want to offend you by just not replying back to you, but you kind of have put me on the spot and in a tough position now, so I think the best thing is just to be honest with you.

    What is so unbelievable about the following?

    In his alleged pre-arrest ‘memoirs’, well…these ‘memoirs’ also have him describing himself as being more of a Zionist than an SS officer, right…sure.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2497597

    After all, Eichmann actually studied Judaism and even learned how to speak some Hebrew, etc. But maybe that is just “Zionist Wikipedia propaganda”?

    After about six months, Eichmann was invited by Leopold von Mildenstein to join his Jewish Department, Section II/112 of the SD, at its Berlin headquarters.[24][25][d] Eichmann’s transfer was granted in November 1934. He later came to consider this as his big break.[26] He was assigned to study and prepare reports on the Zionist movement and various Jewish organisations. He even learned a smattering of Hebrew and Yiddish, gaining a reputation as a specialist in Zionist and Jewish matters.[27]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Early_career

    My approach to Holocaust research is similar to Samuel Crowell’s “moderate revisionist” school of thought, so I’m not sure we are on the same page, have much in common or even have similar goals and expectations when it comes to Holocaust revisionism:

    Crowell would later describe himself as a “moderate revisionist.” This was more than a label but rather a school of thought that he hoped would find more adherents. Crowell was genuinely interested in debunking the exaggerations and excesses of the Holocaust story but did so without any intention of offending anyone – especially the Jewish people.

    https://codoh.com/library/document/4632/?lang=en

    My challenge to the anti-revionists I have stated before.

    Why has Yad Vashem after over 60 years and tens or even hundreds of millions of Dollars and hours invested into their investigations and research only managed to verify 3.5 million, or even fewer https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494896 , names and identities of Holocaust victims?

    While you’re at it, please debunk the following comments and the figures and sources mentioned in them:

    https://www.unz.com/article/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486655

    https://www.unz.com/article/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486681

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2491548

    Even Yad Vashem is still missing between 1.3 to 2.5 million names/identities of Holocaust victims,
    […]
    How many Jews that were persecuted, but not exterminated, by Germans/Nazis changed their names/identities, i.e. anglicized, hebraized or sovietized, etc. them?

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494595

    So, even if we assume that the Germans/Nazis killed every single Jew of those 3.1 milllion in their occupied territories and every single Jew in Hungary and Romania this would put the figure at about 4.1 million, about 30% lower than the 6 million figure.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2521280

    You still have not explained the gaps/holes and discrepancies in the Yad Vashem figures, their interesting data categorization/classification methodology and creative data interpretation approach, which, by the way, are similar to your own. You are evading the questions, it seems.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2496400

    Source: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/70-years-later-were-still-trying-to-learn-who-died-in-the-holocaust/ Archived link: http://archive.is/PGxXP

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2104. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Interesting Twitter thread:

    Confronting Denial
    ‏ @AgainstDenial

    Replying to @AgainstDenial @hugh_wight

    8:29 AM – 16 Sep 2018

    1. See, we can discuss things calmly. Anyway, the key point: overall estimates are not arrived at by summing up the camp death tolls – which did undergo significant revisions. Esp. considering that about half died outside of the camps.

    2. The overall estimates are done on a country by country basis, which is much easier, given the demographic/emigration/deportation data. And yes, there’s still a significant degree of uncertainty given the fragmentary nature of the data. That’s why I gave you a range.

    3. Forget “6m” – it’s a “media figure”. The dean of the Holocaust studies Raul Hilberg estimated 5.1m – this obviously didn’t make him a denier.

    Like with any estimates, it’s useful to provide a range.


    But numerous scholars who investigated the issue didn’t go below 5m,

    4. with exception of Reitlinger, who was one of the pioneers, worked with very incomplete data and whose research is simply outdated. He wasn’t a denier for going under 5m tho.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @j2
  2105. @FKA Max

    Sorry, what’s the point of this Twitter thread?

  2106. @Wally

    What is the asserted sentence in German ?
    Do not remember such a thing from
    Ralf Georg Reuth, ‘Goebbels’, 1990, 1993, San Diego

  2107. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    I will read your contributions in the evening, have not read them yet. I wrote an argument that liquidation means a financial arrangement, not killing, in
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/17/still-about-the-meaning-of-liquidation/

  2108. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Doing the calculation by country basis does not help with the problem as the problem is that the Jewish population data in the Soviet Union, the Baltic states and Romania is very uncertain and for Poland the range for 1939 is from 2.7 million to 3.3 million and it is based on the census of 1931. If Jews emigrated illegally, they do not show in official emigration figures. They would still be legally in the country. There is very little uncertainty in the figures of other countries, and it has been this way ever since 1948. The death toll of Yad Vashem with names and birth places for 3.5 million after so long time makes it virtually certain that the Jewish population in Eastern Europe is estimated about 1 million or more too high. It is not that these Jews were not born in Eastern Europe, it is were they there in 1939 and this cannot be found out from records, they could easily be registered in a country though not living there physically. I know people who have done so for 10 years.

  2109. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    I think you interpret Korherr a bit incorrectly. 2.2 million Jews who fled to other countries includes 1 million Eastern Jews who fled to Russian Siberia. I include my interpretation of Korherr

    Korherr report

    [MORE]

    He has correct figures for Hungary and Romania as we know them
    Hungary 440,000
    Romania 600,000
    Sum 1,040,000
    Hungary took part of Romania, so he has
    Hungary 750,000
    Romania 300,000
    Sum 1,050,000

    His figure for Russia c. 4 million is justifiable
    Russia and the Baltic states 2.8 million
    Eastern Poland 1.3 million
    Sum 4.1 million

    His European population for 1937 is 10.3 million, so you have these numbers
    10.3 million1937
    4.5 million reduction, almost half reduction
    2.6 million fled (0.25*10.3 milj)
    1 million in Hungary and Romania

    But we have to understand who are the 2.6 million who fled. In 1939 the Jewish population of Europe was 8.9 million, that is 1.4 million smaller than 10.3 million
    0.5 million from Germany and Austria 1937-41, part of 0.69 million who emigrated 1932-1941
    0.9 million has then fled from Eastern Europe 1937-1943, probably mostly to the USA. I have come to the same figure, about 1 million smaller population in the East.

    There still remains 1.2 million (2.6-1.4) who have fled
    0.3 million fled from Western Poland to Russian Siberia in German 1939 attack
    0.9 million have fled from Eastern Europe to Russian Siberia in 1941 or to Palestine

    This must be the understanding. I set his Russian c. 4 million to 4.1 million as it agrees with the AJY data. To Palestine escaped about 200,000. That is, legally 75,000 and illegally 110,000 or so. This means that to Russian Siberia fled 1 million. Russian European part is thus 3.1 million.

    Let’s do the calculation:
    10.3 million
    – 3.1 million, European Russia
    – 1 million, Hungary and Romania
    – 2.6 million fled to other countries
    Sum 3.6 million in German hands excluding Hungary

    But this requires understanding. In my calculations there were
    1.82 million in West Europe including Hungary 440,000
    1.84 million in Western Poland
    Sum 3.66 million in the West including Hungary, but all were not transported by Nazis

    Nazis transported
    1.22 million from West Europe including Hungary
    1.76 million from Western Poland
    Sum 2.98 million, roundly 3 million. To the West Europe were left 0.6 million known to Nazis, the Jews of Poland were hiding. Thus, the sum is
    3+0.6=3.6 million, but this still includes Hungary. Excluding Hungary it is 3.2 million. We can assume that 0.4 million Jews were left to the occupied areas.

    We redo the calculation:
    10.3 million
    – 2.6 million fled to other countries
    – 3.1 million, European Russia
    – 1 million, Hungary and Romania
    – 2.6 million transported from West and Western Poland
    – 0.6 million not transported from West excluding Hungary
    – 0.4 million in occupied areas in the East
    Sum zero. Now it corresponds to Korherr.

    How many European Jews have been reduced since 1937
    2.6 million fled outside Europe
    1.3 million were transported to Operation Reinhardt camps by 1943 (to go to another continent)
    0.6 million have died in the West and Western Poland in 1943
    Sum 4.5 million

    Total deaths in the West and Western Poland by 1945
    0.14 million in Romania
    0.06 million in Yugoslavia
    0.8 million in other countries
    Sum 1 million.

    We see that at the end of the war 0.86-0.6=0.26 million died, largely in camps in Germany. This is reasonable.

    How many died in the East?
    0.4 million left to occupied areas may have been shot (please Wally, do not comment).
    0.5 million (1/3) of the transported 1.5 million (Operation Reinhardt) may have died.
    0.5 million of those who fled to Siberia (1 million) may have died
    0.3 million (1/10) of Russian 3.1 million Jews in Europe may have died
    Sum 1.7 million

    This way we come to 2.7 million dead. It is reasonably close to 3 million I obtained in other ways. Korherr figures are quite close to correct in my opinion. But the issue is that he started with very similar numbers, the Jewish numbers and Polish census, there were no other numbers.

  2110. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Notice especially that Korherr overestimates the number of Jews in Russia on 1943. If there were c. 4 million, which Germans did not get into their hands, then there should have remained more like 3 million, not 2 million in 1948. Clearly, his numbers do not point out to Einsatzgruppen having killed 1-1.5 million. It is more like 0.4 million. He correctly estimates that 0.9 million has emigrated from Europe since the figure 10.3 million was valid, but he has not decreased the Russian Jewish population as he should have. Surely because the data was so uncertain.

    I do not think we can get full clarity of Soviet population figures, but seems to be that 2.5-3 million is rather close as the death toll.

  2111. Wally says:
    @j2

    J2, though he laughably admits his numbers are BS, says:

    “I do not think we can get full clarity of Soviet population figures, but seems to be that 2.5-3 million is rather close as the death toll

    Yet he cannot tell us how they were supposedly died / were killed, or show us the alleged immense human remains that are claimed to exist.

    As for the nothing-burger Korherr Report, the author, Dr. Richard Korherr, said it best:

    The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:
    “It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician…is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned.”
    Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler’s order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

    The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word “died” in this context.

    It was precisely the term “special treatment” (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.

    Dr. Richard Korherr
    Braunschweig

  2112. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    Thanks so much for your feedback and your calculations, j2!

    Notice especially that Korherr overestimates the number of Jews in Russia on 1943. If there were c. 4 million, which Germans did not get into their hands, then there should have remained more like 3 million, not 2 million in 1948. Clearly, his numbers do not point out to Einsatzgruppen having killed 1-1.5 million. It is more like 0.4 million.

    That has exactly been my argument from the very beginning to the anti-revisionists that there were more Jews who found refuge in Russia than is commonly reported and estimated, and certain sources point to that, see here:

    In 1959, for the first time, they were allowed to volunteer, without proof, the nationality with which they chose to be identified. Despite the possibility thus provided for Jews to “pass,” 2,268,000 people specified their nationality as Jewish (there are reasons to believe that the total number more closely approximates 3,000,000).

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/1963-01-01/status-jews-soviet-union

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486681

    I suspect, like you pointed out, that the Einsatzgruppen probably did not kill as many Jews as is generally accepted. Here an example of what I’m talking about:

    As word of the massacres got out, many Jews fled; in Ukraine, 70 to 90 per cent of the Jews ran away. This was seen by the leader of Einsatzkommando VI as beneficial, as it would save the regime the costs of deporting the victims further east over the Urals.[77] In other areas the invasion was so successful that the Einsatzgruppen had insufficient forces to immediately kill all the Jews in the conquered territories.[78] A situation report from Einsatzgruppe C in September 1941 noted that not all Jews were members of the Bolshevist apparatus, and suggested that the total elimination of Jewry would have a negative impact on the economy and the food supply. The Nazis began to round their victims up into concentration camps and ghettos and rural districts were for the most part rendered Judenfrei (free of Jews).[79] Jewish councils were set up in major cities and forced labour gangs were established to make use of the Jews as slave labour until they were totally eliminated, a goal that was postponed until 1942.[80]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen#Killings_in_the_Soviet_Union

    HDOT, for example, puts the Jewish victims of Einsatzgruppen operations at 1.15 milllion:

    Einsatzgruppen: Reliability of Figures in Reports

    The demographics of postwar Jewish communities, and the thousands of mass graves throughout the Soviet territories, support the conclusion that the Einsatzgruppen and their collaborators murdered at least 1,150,000 Jews in the East.

    https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ezg4-reliability-reports/

    While Hilberg estimates 1.3 million “Historian Raul Hilberg estimates that between 1941 and 1945 the Einsatzgruppen and related auxiliary troops killed more than two million people, including 1.3 million Jews.” – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen

    So, even between these two mainstream anti-revisionist sources there is a 150,000 difference of estimated Jewish victims. These small, and seemingly insignificant differences in victim figures can add up over time…

    Thanks so much again for your valuable feedback, j2!

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
  2113. @j2

    It’s worth pointing out that Reynouard and Verbeke, in their assessment of the EG reports (which make clear that the mass shootings took place solely in the context of anti-partisan operations) support a maximum number of around 400K. The actual number is probably lower, although the order of magnitude is almost certainly correct and well below the “accepted” 1.3M or whatever.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @phil
  2114. JackOH says:

    More than 2,000 comments on this very contentious topic, and I think it’s been productive. Hat’s off, Ron, and stay safe, buddy.

    James Q. Whitman is the Ford Foundation Professor of Comparative and Foreign Law at Yale Law School. He’s published Hitler’s American Model, The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law. Here’s the description from the Princeton University Press (emphasis mine):

    “How American race law provided a blueprint for Nazi Germany”

    “Nazism triumphed in Germany during the high era of Jim Crow laws in the United States. Did the American regime of racial oppression in any way inspire the Nazis? The unsettling answer is yes. In Hitler’s American Model, James Whitman presents a detailed investigation of the American impact on the notorious Nuremberg Laws, the centerpiece anti-Jewish legislation of the Nazi regime. Contrary to those who have insisted that there was no meaningful connection between American and German racial repression, Whitman demonstrates that the Nazis took a real, sustained, significant, and revealing interest in American race policies.”

    “As Whitman shows, the Nuremberg Laws were crafted in an atmosphere of considerable attention to the precedents American race laws had to offer. German praise for American practices, already found in Hitler’s Mein Kampf, was continuous throughout the early 1930s, and the most radical Nazi lawyers were eager advocates of the use of American models. But while Jim Crow segregation was one aspect of American law that appealed to Nazi radicals, it was not the most consequential one. Rather, both American citizenship and antimiscegenation laws proved directly relevant to the two principal Nuremberg Laws—the Citizenship Law and the Blood Law. Whitman looks at the ultimate, ugly irony that when Nazis rejected American practices, it was sometimes not because they found them too enlightened, but too harsh.

    “Indelibly linking American race laws to the shaping of Nazi policies in Germany, Hitler’s American Model upends understandings of America’s influence on racist practices in the wider world.”

    Nazis too soft on Jews by comparison with that other country, America, and its treatment of a racial minority?

  2115. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    Still citing your Zionist controlled Wikipedia, we see.

    [MORE]

    Only a Zionist would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop. They own the place.
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    Of your fictitious claims about the Einsatzgruppen, why don’t you show us the alleged enormous human remains said to be in known locations as claimed by “historians”?

    After all, “The Holocau$t Industry” now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen, into huge pits, you claim a bit less, regardless, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000? 200 graves of 10,000? 400 graves of 5,000? 500 graves of 4,000? 1000 graves of 2000? 2000 graves of 1000?

    See my demolition of your buddy j2 and his laughable fake numbers here: Kamikaze from California: https://www.unz.com/ishamir/kamikaze-from-california/

    recommended:
    The Einsatzgruppen Trial, By John Wear : https://codoh.com/library/document/5515/?lang=en

    • Replies: @phil
  2116. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Much lower, and only a percentage were even Jews.

    Under international law such non-uniformed combatants were legally subject to execution.

    The Allies certainly did it.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2117. @Wally

    This is largely true, but there’s also no doubt that excesses and war crimes took place on the Eastern Front.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2118. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Addendum:

    It should be well understood that we do not wish to claim by what we have said here that there was no opening of mass graves and cremation of bodies, any more than we are claiming that there were no shootings of Jews. But we are very much questioning the enormous scale, which the official historiography attributes to these occurrences.http://archive.fo/JSkFP#selection-5423.0-5423.337

    [3] Reginald T. Paget, Manstein: His Campaigns and his Trial (Collins, 1951), p. 170f as cited in Carlo Mattogno and Jürgen Graf, Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? (“Chapter VII: The role of the Einsatzgruppen in the Occupied Eastern Territories, 3. The Scale of the Shootings”) at http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/8.html. For an excerpt of the pertinent text in Paget’s book in English see, “That’s why it is denial, not revisionism. Part VIII: The Simferopol Massacres” (October 18, 2006) at http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/10/thats-why-it-is-denial-not-revisionism.html

    https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ezg4-reliability-reports/#_edn3

    Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf

    Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20170831180115/http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf

    Chapter VII:
    The Role of the Einsatzgruppen
    in the Occupied Eastern Territories

    http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/8.html Archived link: http://archive.fo/JSkFP

    Some more anti-revisionist articles on the matter, in the interest of fairness and balance:

    That’s why it is denial, not revisionism. Part I: Deniers on Sonderkommando 1005

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/04/thats-why-it-is-denial-not-revisionism.html

    Sonderkommando 1005 in PRO decodes

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/sonderkommando-1005-in-pro-decodes.html

    Here revisionists debate those anti-revisionist articles:

    Aktion 1005 and Mattogno’s alleged lies

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10120 Archived link: http://archive.is/nahs1

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  2119. Jorge Videla [AKA "jorge raphael videla"] says:

    2000+ comments and it can all be resolved tomorrow.

    test the pits around treblinka and belzec. a pole did this in 1997 and…holocaust confirmed. surprising it took so long. an american looked at them with sonar in 2007. but that’s it. no need to excavate. just take sample cores around the camps.

    yes. i am actually a BGI volunteer like mssr unz himself i suppose.

    you’re welcome.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2120. Jorge Videla [AKA "jorge raphael videla"] says:

    the official story is that 900,000 were gassed at auschwitz. does it have such pits too? if not why not?

    i suggest mssr unz read hoess’s book and see if it reads like the testimony of one subjected to torture. i doesn’t to me.

    that’s why i asked above, if they did it, why did they do it. can you explain why they did it. it is in the interest of the cult to pretend there is no explanation.

    the wansee conference took place one month after the US entered the war. coincidence? the theory is that after the US entry reinhard et al knew the war was lost and then supposedly the naval blockade and the fighting made deporting them impossible. resettlement to the east was not initially a euphemism. it became one after pearl harbor.

    • Replies: @j2
  2121. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    World Jewish Congress’s Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 – 1,500,000 Polish Jews were homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191
    And that is just Polish Jews.

    We’re still waiting for you show us the immense human remains that are alleged to exist in known locations.

    quoted:
    “It should be well understood that we do not wish to claim by what we have said here that there was no opening of mass graves and cremation of bodies, any more than we are claiming that there were no shootings of Jews. But we are very much questioning the enormous scale, which the official historiography attributes to these occurrences. ”

    Yet there exists no such mass graves, regardless of their cautious statement. They can show us exactly none.
    Indeed, Jews comprised a significant portion of the non-uniformed, illegal terrorist ‘partisans’. So yes, some Jews were legally shot.

    “The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.”
    – Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

    Again, a ridiculous story to be sure, but there it is. According to the contrived narrative there should human remains galore. There are not.

    See Tyas and his bogus decodes debunked here:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=tyas&fid%5B0%5D=2

    Read and see the Zionist liars at ‘holocaust controversies’ sliced & diced here:
    The “Extermination Camps” of “Aktion Reinhardt”, An Analysis and Refutation of Factitious Evidence,” Deceptions and Flawed Argumentation of the “Holocaust Controversies” Bloggers, By Jürgen Graf , Carlo Mattogno , Thomas Kues : https://codoh.com/library/document/3052/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

  2122. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    I am a bit skeptical if Wally is a revisionist. He writes like a malignant parody of a revisionist and that points to a completely other direction.

    But if we ignore him, the state might be that there were 900,000 Jews less in the Soviet Union and the Baltic countries in 1939 and there were about 900,000 more Jews in the Soviet Union of 1946. That puts the death toll between 2.5 and 3 million, as Soviet Jews were under conscription and some had to die in the war. I guess 1/10 of all Soviets died. This part cannot be fully ignored, even though Jews escaped to Israel when the Allied formed the force from Polish POWs to attack Italy, notably Monte Cassino.

    There remains the question of Jews who possibly were resettled and why they did not announce about it. They would have largely been Jews of Western Poland and either too old or too young. Do you think it is possible that resettled Jews had to leave when the original inhabitants of those buildings returned and that they were taken to gulags? Because I find it difficult to explain it in another way. If there were 3 million Jews in the SU in 1948 and 1 million less in 1939, that is 2.5 million dead, so the resettled Jews were not killed by the returning inhabitants. But they never talked that they were resettled.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
  2123. j2 says:
    @Jorge Videla

    “i suggest mssr unz read hoess’s book and see if it reads like the testimony of one subjected to torture. i doesn’t to me.”

    I think it is proven that Hoess was tortured by the British and to me most of the book sounds like it was written by Hoess, so I do not understand what you suggest.

    I was puzzled by the following when I reads the book long ago. My translation starts at page 25 and ends at page 198, to give you a possibility to find the following page numbers. On page 194 Hoess tells that he never mishandled a prisoner, not to say of killing one, and forbid his subordinates doing it, yet on page 166 he tells how he personally ordered an SS under officer to throw two children to a gas chamber. How do you combine the text on page 194 and the pages around 166?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2124. Wally says:
    @j2

    j2 and his laughably fake numbers from his fantasy laden mind. No basis in fact whatsoever.

    j2 can’t prove that Jews are missing.

    j2 can’t show us the alleged enormous human remains in alleged locations which is, after all where his Jews supposedly ‘went’.

    j2 can’t explain to us how the alleged & impossible ‘gas chambers’ worked.

    j2 is in denial that Jews went everywhere, yet as a religious nutcase, he continues to Believe in the impossible.

    j2 in court:

    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re True Believers.’

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2125. @j2

    Both Höss, and an Auschwitz under commander caught in the sixties, denied that there were gas chambers for humans.
    The story is that Poland promised Höss that his life would be spared if he confessed, this is what he did, and he was hanged.
    The Auschwitz under commander died suddenly in prison, there was no trial:
    Paul Rassinier, ´Was ist Wahrheit ?, Die Juden und das Dritte Reich´, Leoni am Starnberger See, 7th printing, 1981 (Le véritable procès Eichmann ou les vainqueurs incorrigibles, 1963; The Real Eichmann Trial or the Incorrigible Victors. ISBN: 0911038485, 1983
    Who is interested in interrogations I can recommend:
    Richard Overy, ‘Interrogations, the Nazi elite in Allied hands, 1945’, London 2001
    Parts of the Neurenberg interrogations word for word

    • Replies: @j2
  2126. phil says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    You may have a point, especially as the main actions started to move away from the Baltics and Byelorussia, but as you may be aware, David Irving (see Himmler videos on Youtube) is touting a document he uncovered for reported Einsatzgruppen activity in Lithuania. The report divided killings into Jews, partisans, communists, women, children, etc. By far the largest category of killings concerned Jews, including women and children. Comparatively few of the killings were classified as partisan or communist.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2127. phil says:
    @Wally

    Wally,

    As you may know, it is sometimes possible to get a murder conviction without a corpse having been found. Of course, it is better to have all the evidence, but if some of it is not available, we have to rely on documents, eyewitnesses or other sources of information to make a judgement. Your childish repetition of talking points gets tiresome and is ultimately counterproductive to the viewpoint you’d like to promote.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2128. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Excesses?

    By who? Where? How? When? Proof?

    Remember, Jews made up a significant number of the illegal, non-uniformed terrorist ‘partisans”.
    Execution of such combatants was legal and done by all sides. So indeed, some Jews were shot.

    As I have stated repeatedly, the Germans did nothing any worse than the Allies, and in most cases, much less.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2129. Wally says:
    @phil

    One guy? “Sometimes”?
    Get out of here.

    The narrative’s claim is ‘6M Jews & 5M others’ = 11,000,000 murdered, equal to the population of London.
    It is “The Holocau$t Industry” itself, not me, who claims that truly immense human remains exist in known locations. Get over it.

    Not only were the claimed 11,000,000 murders impossible as alleged, no forensic study of the alleged ‘gas chambers’ has ever been presented in a court of law, ever, there are no human remains that are alleged by “holocaust historians”, not me.

    Not a single claimed enormous mass grave forensically examined & verified has been shown to contain what is alleged. Not one out of the multitude that are alleged.

    [MORE]

    Three big examples of no human remains as alleged:
    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.

    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.

    You may want me to stop pounding away at the facts because the facts blow away your cherished impossible narrative. I will not, so get used to it. Only lies require censorship Maybe you should go play checkers or something.

    Phil and his “Holocau$t Industry” in court:

    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions upon millions buried in immense mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds. See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2130. a document he uncovered for reported Einsatzgruppen activity in Lithuania

    Could these documents be used by researchers to help locate grave sites?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2131. @Jorge Videla

    None of these undertakings even remotely support the claims of the number of victims said to be there.

    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/1/2/1905

  2132. @Wally

    I agree on balance German war crimes were probably less than the Allies, that wasn’t really the point.

  2133. @phil

    Sure, most of the victims were Jewish, that’s somewhat beside the point.

    • Replies: @JackOH
  2134. Wally says:

    Yet another ‘holocaust’ Revisionist website, packed with facts, that The Usual Enemies of Free Speech want censored, banned.

    JAN27: International Day of Commemoration in Honor of the Revisionists Who Introduced Sanity to the Auschwitz “Death Camp” Narrative

    https://jan27.org

    Notice the categories used:
    Insanity, What was Auschwitz?, Religion, Shoah Business, “Gas Chambers”, “Plan”, “Eye Witnesses”, “Liberation”, & Moral Question

    more about it here:
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12016

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @ProfGizmo
  2135. Wally says:

    Must see videos:

    Eric Hunt Revisionist video: The Treblinka Archaeological Hoax: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12019

    Eric Hunt Revisionist video: Majdanek Gas Chamber Myth: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12018

    Eric Hunt Revisionist video: The Truth About the Nordhausen Bombing:https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12020

    More to come.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2136. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Both the following books describe that Lithuanians killed their jews before arrival of the German troops:
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The second book is written by a jew from S Africa who went to Lithuania searching for his grandfather’s kingdom, ‘rijk’, a rabbi.
    What I found out in Lithuania seems to confirm the genocide perpetrated by non jewish Lithianians on their fellow jews.
    The graves are said to be open places in woods, where the killings took place, each village for themselves, now overgrown, I suppose.
    As to the Einsatz Gruppen reports, Arthur A Butz poses the sensible question why the reports of these highly secret activities were distributed in something like a 100 copies.
    How it was possible that the minutes of the Wannsee Conference, the place where it is said the decision of genocide was told to high Germans, remained, also boggles the mind.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2137. JackOH says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Good comments all, BtM.

    A strong academic ought to look at Germany’s and Germans’ massive political vulnerability in 1945 and thereafter. Germany’s official documents were captured by the victors; the victors could keep their own documents out of the public eye. The Nazis’ inflammatory language and combative political style worked against them (pace Trump). The Nazis did have actual laws and policies that were strongly and unfairly discriminatory against German Jews. The Allies’ demand for unconditional surrender left for the Germans as their only legitimate purpose to sign a surrender agreement.

    If the Germans had been pristine in their conduct of military operations and occupation policies 1939-1945 (they weren’t), they’d still be the impotent losers of 1945, without a voice.

  2138. j2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “The story is that Poland promised Höss that his life would be spared if he confessed, this is what he did, and he was hanged.”

    Maybe in the beginning but in the end of the book Hoess writes that he knows he will die. Maybe they promised to save his family.

    The book corroborates that Hoess denied gas chambers:
    (My version of the Komendant of Auschwitz starts page 25, ends page 198, annex 1 starts 199 ends 220.)
    Page 158 when explaining the gassing of Russian POWs, he states that there were no convulsions, peaceful death.
    Page 219 when explaining gassing of Jews he explains that he watched it, no change of skin color, no convolutions.
    Cyanide gas causes typically convolutions and often red to pink skin color and it is not painless. Hoess, having a cyanide capsule, most probably knew how the death would look like.

    There are other interesting errors,
    Page 137 4000 Gipsies are taken for gassing to Krema I in Aug 1944, while Krema I stopped being used in July 1943
    Page 201 Hoess tells of large extermination centers in the east in summer 1941, while Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec were operational 1942-43.

    Page 155 tells of Himmler’s order to exterminate all Jews received by Hoess summer 1941
    Page 175 tells of RSHA order to exterminate all Jews received by Hoess summer 1941
    Wannsee conference was 20 Jan 1942.

    The statement “I have expressed things unclearly” on page 196 obviously has a meaning.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2139. Tsigantes says:
    @for-the-record

    @ for-the-record

    “Note, however, that the definition of “Holocaust survivor” is a very broad one: “A Holocaust survivor is a person who lived in one of the countries occupied by or under the direct influence of the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945,”

    That would mean that ALL Greeks born up to September 1944 are “holocaust survivors”, ditto Yugoslavs, Poles, Finns etc. etc.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2140. ProfGizmo says:
    @Wally

    Anyone (like you) who claims the Nazis didn’t murder MANY Jews (it may not be 5-6 million) during their regime is an idiot. THere are films of the liberated death camps, anecdotal accounts, Nazi records on the number of people sent to the larger death camps, which were built and used primarily for Jews, progress reports from Nazi commanders of death camps and from Einsatzgruppen killing squads in the conquered territories, and post-war testimonies by Nazi leaders and commanders. ALso the mass graves of Jewish victims in the Ukraine. And here are some journal excerpts from your heroes:

    Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s propaganda chief (Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, pp. 86, 147-148): February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.

    Goebbels, March 27, 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

    SS Chief Heinrich Himmler’s speech at Posen on October 4, 1943, which was captured on audiotape (Trial of the Major War Criminals, 1948, Vol. XXIX, p. 145): I refer now to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. This is one of those things that is easily said: “the Jewish people are being exterminated,” says every Party member, “quite true, it’s part of our plans, the elimination of the Jews, extermination, we’re doing it.”

    • Replies: @Wally
  2141. Wally says:
    @ProfGizmo

    Yawn. The same old Zionist propaganda debunked repeatedly.

    – Y0u really mean films of disease victims, see photos of Andersonville Civil War prison too.
    Note that not a single autopsy ever found anyone to have been gassed by the scientifically impossible & laughable ‘Nazi gas chambers’.
    – What ‘Nazi records’? Show them. What do they really say? LOL
    – Show us the claimed immense human remains that are claimed to be known locations. You cannot. LOL
    – You mean the Goebbels diary which says nothing of killing Jews? LOL
    – You mean the claimed meaning of his diary that is not supported by the vast human remains that are alleged to be in known locations? LOL
    – Posen Speech? Laughable, see responses to comment #1 in this thread.
    You mean the speech where the word ‘extermination’ is not used. LOL
    – You mean the falsely claimed content of a speech that is not supported by the vast human remains that are alleged to be in known locations, vast remains that would be necessary IF the impossible ‘holocaust’ narrative was true.

    Of course irrational Zionists like you ignore the Schlegelberger Document and the confirming Luther Memo which state that Hitler will sort out the Jewish problem AFTER THE WAR. See my comment #372 above.

    An alleged ‘6M Jews, 5M others = 11,000,000. The size of the population of London, but not a single immense mass grave out of the multitudes that are alleged, out of a claimed 11,000,000, murders can be show. Oh those ‘magic Nazis’. LOL
    Naturally you ignore the fact that Jews have been pushing their fake ‘6M’ since 1823. Oops!
    Try actually reading Ron Unz’s article, and the comments here. You’re in way over your head. The ‘holocau$t’ is complete horse shit & ‘swhy Zionists demand censorship of free speech.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @ProfGizmo
  2142. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    said:
    “The graves are said to be open places in woods, where the killings took place, each village for themselves, now overgrown, I suppose.”

    So why don’t they excavate and show the world these alleged ‘graves’? Because there are no such graves. Try that crap in a legit court of law; claiming such physical evidence exists but then not producing it. LOL

    See my comment # 1810 above.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2143. Wally says:
    @Tsigantes

    Indeed, easier to get free cash that way.
    There’s big bucks, power, & influence in being able to claim victim status.

    Yet another reason the ‘6M’ was invented

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  2144. @j2

    Where, when, and under what circumstances, did Höss write a book ?

    • Replies: @j2
  2145. @Wally

    Why would present Lithuanians do this ?
    They’re not proud of what they did.
    If they could they would forget completely WWII, one sees this clearly when trying to find the place near Vilnius where the mass executions by Germans are said to have taken place, no road signs, hardly anyone there, despite a large number of monuments, the whole area in decay.
    When I was there with my wife four other visitors, a young couple, no idea of what origin,and what I supposed to be a rich jew, and his wife, with a translator and in a chauffeur driven car.
    The translations were lithuanian into english, I stood by listening to two or three, but then realised I was seen as an intruder.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2146. j2 says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Where, when, and under what circumstances, did Höss write a book ?”

    I do not understand why you ask, you know, I know, you know I know, I know you know, so why. It is dated Crakow April 1947, in a Polish prison. If you question my claim that he knew he would be killed (why you people question my knowledge, I usually check), on page 196 is written, my own person I have already removed form the books, I do not care, it is clear to me, but what about my wife and children.

    But as you made this strange question, I want to make a question to you. On page 191 there is, extermination of Jews was fundamentally wrong,.., Antisemitism it did not advance at all, just on the contrary, because of it Judaism has got much closer to its final goal. What does he mean by the final goal, is it creation of Israel. Assuming that he writes honestly here and means transportation to the east by extermination of Jews of Europe, then Höss says that transportation of Jews was wrong as it was not antisemitism but got Jews closer to the creation of Israel. Do you read it like this.

  2147. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Why?
    Because it’s an alleged crime scene, dummy. Jews would certainly insist, IF it was true.
    They do not because it is not.

    Where is this mass execution site of Germans? Be specific. Ah, you cannot be specific.
    But we know exactly where Jew remains are supposed to be, but they are not.

    Were talking about an alleged ‘6M Jews & 5M others’, dummy. That’s 11,000,000 and not a single excavated, verified mass grave out the thousands claim can actually be shown. Not one.

    You’re full of it.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2148. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Speaking of which….do you know where one can find information on the number of survivors receiving survivor benefits from Germany?
    Many years ago, in the early eighties, I recall reading that more applied for compensation than were living there at the time. Also the lists of victims contain names of people who changed their names and continued living. Simone Vail appears on the list of dead. She later become president of the European parlament.

    Do you know anything about a film Germans were supposed to watch after the war. To inform them of what had happened in the camps. A medical Dr. who was in Kassel at wars end, and watched the aforementioned film there, noticed to his great surprise that he was in the film, stacking corpses like cordwood. Supposed to be jews. He had indeed done that, in Dresden after the fire storm.

    I hesitate to post this, I do not recall which book this information can be found in. But maybe someone knows.

    BTW Rassinier, who helped Jews to get fake passports and escape via Switzerland, before he was captured himself,
    asserts that a great part of Jews that fled to the East went to Birobidjan. From there crossed into Manchuria. The Chinese aided Jews on their way to Hongkong and on to the United States.
    According to him, American Jews had sufficient clout in the US Govt. to help ‘illegal’ migrants.
    Which raises the question, why did the US Govt. have a policy to not allow Jewish refugees? But let them in the back door.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2149. ProfGizmo says:
    @Wally

    Yeah, I’m sure the Nazis were real humanitarians. They forced Jews to wear arm-bands with stars and wanted to “evacuate” them because they had big noses. If the Jews starved to death or got typhus while performing slave labor in concentration camps it was their own fault. Cramming a million Jews into the Warsaw ghetto was an act of kindness. Invading Russia to gain breathing space was just the natural order of things. Murdering U.S. POWs at Malmedy was an act of kindness, etc., etc.

    (That was sarcasm in case you missed it.)

    • Replies: @Wally
  2150. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    j2,

    I’m not sure I understood your questions properly but let me (re)share some information with you that might shed some light on the issues you wondered about.

    The pivotal factor and person in all of this is Stalin, in my opinion.

    I shared this information with you previously, but I’m not sure you remember…

    This, by the way, is also another indication, to me, that the Jewish death toll in World War 2 was not as high as is commonly reported: “The revival of Jewish cultural expression during the war had fostered a general sense of boldness among the Jewish masses.

    This type of boldness does not sound like or seem to be a mark of a decimated and defeated people, at least to me.

    Why did the USSR help to create Israel, but then became its foe

    Joseph Stalin strongly supported the creation of Israel in 1947 because he hoped the Jewish state would be a Soviet ally in the Middle East. But when things didn’t work out between Moscow and Tel Aviv, the Soviet Union became hostile and turned into a staunch Arab ally.

    https://www.rbth.com/history/327040-ussr-and-israel-from-friends-to-foes

    I think Stalin forbade the Jews he had rescued and sheltered form the Germans/Nazis to emigrate to Israel, because he feared that they would become enemies of/to the Soviet Union.

    Keeping them in the Soviet Union under his control made them less of a threat.

    End of honeymoon

    Stalin’s support for the Israeli cause didn’t last long. As Julius Kosharovsky, a Russian-born Israeli historian, said in his book on the Zionist movement in the USSR, bilateral relations deteriorated soon after Golda Meir, Israel’s envoy to Russia, raised the issue of the emigration of Soviet Jews to Israel.

    The answer was a strict “No.” The official Soviet position was that all Soviet Jews, like all Soviet people in general, were extremely happy and didn’t need any Promised Land. Israeli politicians couldn’t accept this, and they soon turned to the U.S. as their main ally.

    http://archive.is/kVNB8#selection-421.0-439.270

    Thank you very much for your feedback, j2.
    […]
    However, Stalin started to crack down and severely suppress all Jewish organizations and advocates starting in 1948, so there was plenty of incentive and motivation to stay “under the radar” for Soviet Jews.
    […]
    Despite Stalin’s willingness to support Israel early on, various historians suppose that antisemitism in the late 1940s and early 1950s was motivated by Stalin’s possible perception of Jews as a potential “fifth column” in light of a pro-Western Israel in the Middle East.
    […]
    I think increasing the Jewish (and general) death toll in World War II and decreasing the “official” Jewish population of the Soviet Union served two purposes for Stalin.

    Firstly, for propaganda purposes against the Germans higher death tolls were useful, and secondly lower “official” numbers of Jews in the Soviet Union were likely intended to discourage and prevent Jewish empowerment and organizing
    […]
    When, in October 1948, during the high holy days, thousands of Jews rallied around Moscow’s central synagogue to honor Golda Myerson […] The revival of Jewish cultural expression during the war had fostered a general sense of boldness among the Jewish masses.

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2396013

    • Replies: @J2
  2151. J2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Thanks for your answer, FKA max. All you write is true
    – there very likely were more than 2 M Jews, say about 3M, in the SU of 1946
    – Jews who come from German hands to Soviet hands originally hoped to emigrate to Israel
    – Stalin did not let them to emigrate to Israel and announced the population as 2 M for 1948

    But my question was that if some 0.5 M Jews had been resettled in the east by Germans and kept in the Soviet Union by Stalin, why did they not tell that they had been resettled by Germans and now were kept in Russia?
    – One possible reason for not telling about the past is that these people were in prison camps. Considering that Count Bernadotte probably was kept in prison for a long time, this alternative seems to me very possible. There is also another reason: from the 200,000 or so Jews, who escaped from West Poland to Russia in 1939 when Germany attacked very few survived, or so it was told. Much later, after the SU fell, it was found out that much fewer had died in Siberia, but clearly they were not allowed to tell about it or to return to Poland.
    – Another reason is that these people were so loyal to the SU official storyline that they did not tell anything that deviated from the official storyline. But they kept the story even after Stalin died, so to me this is not believable.
    – A third reason is that locals returning to home, finding a resettled Jews there, took a shotgun and shot the intruder and buried him in the backyard.

    So I think some 0.5M resettled Jews could have been kept in gulags for 40 years (1948-1988), but most people would think that this is simply moving the death toll from German hands to Soviet hands with the goal of decreasing German war crimes, while this problem is not connected with the guilt of war crimes, it is connected with finding a scenario that fits all known facts: if Jews were not killed in Operation Reinhardt camps but most were resettled, then what happened to them.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
  2152. Wally says:
    @ProfGizmo

    – The Allies used forced / ‘slave’ labor too. Oops!

    – Cramming Japanese-Americans into US concentration camps was an act of benevolence by the US.

    – Indeed, the German attack on the communist USSR was quite necessary, see:
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR: https://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    – Actually it’s not a good idea to attempt to flee when you’re a POW.
    recommended: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=malmedy

    – That’s it? That’s your best shot? . As I said, you are in way over head.

    – I note your silence in regards to may demolition of your previous comments. LOL

    No immense human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2153. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    – see: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=how+many+survivors

    – The US did not have a policy to refuse Jews, the US was restricting immigration to all groups at the time.

    – Given that there was no German policy to exterminate Jews, and given the fact that Jews were not exterminated by Germany, most of your inquiry is therefore ‘garbage in, garbage out’.

    – As for post war propaganda forced upon Germans, I recommend these movies:

    Nazi Shrunken Heads , A 24-minute free video about lies which justified war, By DenierBud : https://codoh.com/library/document/1528/?lang=en
    and:
    Buchenwald, A Dumb Dumb Portrayal Of Evil, By DenierBud : https://codoh.com/library/document/1529/?lang=en
    and this article:
    The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies: http://codoh.com/library/document/865/?lang=en

    Only lies require censorship and actions against Free Speech.
    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2154. @Wally

    The execution site was used by Germans to massacre jews, in WWII, is the story.
    It is a few km’s from Vilnius, without a guide you do not find it:
    Lonely Planet Guide ‘Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania’, Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    A railway was running towards it, the rails are still there, that is, when I was there, 2004 or so, according to the mentioned guide you could get there by train.
    The execution sites used by Lithuanians for killing their fellow jews were in the woods
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    But I’m beginning to wonder if you can read, that is, understand what you read.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2155. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    said:
    “The execution site was used by Germans to massacre jews, in WWII, is the story.”

    OK, I misunderstood you. Regardless, show us the claimed human remains. LOL

    The alleged execution sites ‘were in the woods’, so what? Show us the claimed human remains.

    said:
    “A railway was running towards it, the rails are still there, that is, when I was there, 2004 or so, according to the mentioned guide you could get there by train.”

    Wow, there are rail lines. So what? As if no other rail lines exist anywhere else. LOL
    Show us your alleged human remains.

    You’re all talk, Jilles. You have nothing, obviously. LOL

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2156. Wally says:
    @J2

    said:
    ” if Jews were not killed in Operation Reinhardt camps but most were resettled, then what happened to them.”

    Yawn. J2 really needs to read the endless comments here about such matters.

    j2 ignores the very story he hopelessly tries to defend.
    ex.:
    The holocaust’ story says that Jews went to allegedly known enormous mass graves all over Europe … which do not exist.

    Jews went where Jews are. After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering so called “survivors testimonies”, as preposterous as they are, had to go to nearly sixty different countries to record the said “testimonies” on video.

    • Replies: @j2
  2157. j2 says:
    @Wally

    Wally, you did not understand the question. It was how to explain that Jews, who were resettled (assuming about 0.7 million were resettled) did not speak after the war having been resettled.

    There are a few possible explanations. Please, give your explanation, not any links.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2158. FKA Max says: • Website
    @J2

    Typo: I think Stalin forbade the Jews he had rescued and sheltered *from* the Germans/Nazis to emigrate to Israel

    Another reason is that these people were so loyal to the SU official storyline that they did not tell anything that deviated from the official storyline. But they kept the story even after Stalin died, so to me this is not believable.

    j2,

    there was much pressure on these Jews not to tell their stories, not just from the Soviets and Stalin, but arguably Zionists might have exerted even more pressure on these Jewish survivors not to tell their true story of survival, in order to maintain the highest possible victim status for Jews among World War 2 casualties, so Israel would/could achieve more legitimacy and international support and sympathy, etc.

    I documented this here:

    The Wrong Family Holocaust Story: Survival of Polish Jews in Stalin’s Russia
    […]
    The reasons for the obscurity of this Holocaust narrative relate to its being the “wrong” story. Not about concentration camps, this story was buried by historians and by Polish Jews, themselves, who felt they were low on the “hierarchy of victimhood.” Also, Cold War attitudes towards the Soviet Union discouraged those who wished to immigrate to the United States to expose where they were harbored. As this “wrong” Holocaust story, a story mainly of survival, makes its way into the larger story, how will it affect the Holocaust narrative.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2491548

    Possibly, but this is just speculation on my part, one of the conditions to immigrate to Israel and the U.S., etc, was that one had a “clean record” in this regard, so to speak, i.e. the Jews that were permitted to emigrate from the Soviet Union post-Stalin from the 1970s onwards, kept their true Holocaust survival stories under wraps as an act of “Jewish/Israeli patriotism” to support and ensure continued support of and for the State of Israel by the German, other Western governments (particularly the U.S.) and even the Soviets.

    When you add the following population figures together the high estimate of Russian Jews today is 3.5 million and the low one is about 3.1 million, which is much higher than the “official” Soviet Jewish census figures were, and I believe this particular population always had relatively low birth rates, so their growth/size is probably not due to high birth rates, but rather due to higher Holocaust survival rates which I documented and argued for throughout this comments thread:

    Today, Israel is by far the biggest center of Russian-speaking Jews in the world, but certainly not the only one. Large communities of Russian-speaking Jews exist today in New York, Toronto, Berlin and Australia – not to mention an estimated 900,000 left behind in the former Soviet Union, mainly in Russia and Ukraine. Globally, there are estimated to be anywhere from 3 million to 3.5 million Russian-speaking Jews.

    Source: https://www.haaretz.com/st/c/prod/eng/25yrs_russ_img/ Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180920191636/https://www.haaretz.com/st/c/prod/eng/25yrs_russ_img/

    Additional resources:

    Immigration to Israel: Total Immigration, by Country per Year

    (1948 – Present)

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-by-country-per-year Archived link: http://archive.is/UXD8r

    Immigration to Israel: Total Immigration, by Country of Origin

    (1948 – Present)

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-by-country-of-origin Archived link: http://archive.is/4jeCc

    Immigration to Israel: Total Immigration, from Former Soviet Union

    (1948 – Present)

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-from-former-soviet-union Archived link: http://archive.is/d8oAq

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  2159. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Thanks, this seems to be the most logical solution.

  2160. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    The problem is the high intermarriage rate. Earlier Jews did not intermarry and therefore their population growth could be calculated like in any country, but assume you have 50% intermarriage rate and zero population growth, which for simplicity can be approximated by 2 children per couple (ignoring that it must be 2.1 due to not all having children), so 1 million marries inside the tribe and this part stays at 1 million. 1 million marries out and gets 2 million half-Jews, so the total is 3 million.
    Soviet birth rate was probably below the maintenance level and intermarriage rate was lower in earlier decades, so 3-3.5 today may fit with a bit less than 3 million in 1946. This intermarriage with a changing and variable intermarriage rate and different birth rates for orthodox and non-religious mix this calculation quite much.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2161. Wally says:
    @j2

    Jews obviously resettled where Jews are. Simple as that.

    You’re merely asking the same question that has been answered repeatedly in my comments and others.

    Of course you think the ‘unsettled’ Jews were murdered and dumped into claimed & allegedly known mass graves ….. which do not exist.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  2162. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    Soviet birth rate was probably below the maintenance level and intermarriage rate was lower in earlier decades, so 3-3.5 today may fit with a bit less than 3 million in 1946. This intermarriage with a changing and variable intermarriage rate and different birth rates for orthodox and non-religious mix this calculation quite much.

    Using these types of classification and identification criteria, the numbers grow much larger.

    “Ze[e]v (Vladimir) W[/V]agner” https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2489607 actually did just what you suggested/proposed/noted and estimates the Soviet Jewish population size, which includes full, half and quarter Jews, at well over 10 million before aliyah.

    6 million halachic Jews (Jews with Jewish mothers) before aliyah and emigration, 4 million of whom still live in the former Soviet Union today, plus another 6 million who have/had Jewish fathers and ancestry which gives them the right to return to Israel “In 1970, the right of entry and settlement was extended to people with one Jewish grandparent and a person who is married to a Jew, whether or not he or she is considered Jewish under Orthodox interpretations of Halakha.[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return (see below):

    The real number of Jews in the former USSR

    https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=233955 Archived link: http://archive.is/rx9gi

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2486655

    I told everyone that, according to my estimates, there are about six million Jews in the Soviet Union. If my interlocutor was not a specialist in the Jewish question, he began to argue and send me to the data of the official census.
    […]
    – It is known that it is possible to consider Jews only if they have precisely defined who is to be recognized as a Jew?

    I’m talking exclusively about Jews in Halacha – born by a Jewish mother. And I believe that today, after a great aliyah, the number of halachic Jews in the countries of the former USSR is about four million. And six million more are those who know about their Jewish origin. They are those who satisfy the requirement of the Israeli Law on Return (the grandchildren of the Jew), and those who do not satisfy him, but they know that they had Jews in their family.

    “Do not these ten million of your family even include members of their families – non-Jewish wives, husbands?”

    – In no case. The number is, of course, very approximate. There is no algorithm that would help estimate the number of Jews according to Halacha.

    And what are the data of the census, based on records in passports, is easy to understand. How many Jewish friends do you have in your passport, everything is written down, anything but a “Jew”?

    – If the census is empty, what are you based on in your estimates?

    – On the data obtained during the preparation of the Jewish Encyclopedia. We try to ensure that the sources of this information are indigenous residents of cities, villages, towns, mentioned in the encyclopedia. The number of Jews in different places is two to three times greater than what is indicated in the census data. In Russia, this coefficient is from 2 to 3. And this despite the fact that Jews do not belong to groups with high birth rates. And despite the fact that many are leaving, and the community is aging.

    In Ukraine, the situation is even more mysterious than in Russia. There is a coefficient of at least 3. But there are cities where the census data and the assessment of Jewish leaders differ twenty times! I remember that at one of the first Jewish seminars in Moscow, one Odessa citizen joked: the entire population of Odessa is satisfied with the criteria of the Law on Return.

    http://archive.is/rx9gi#selection-487.0-519.378

    • Replies: @j2
  2163. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    posted:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/09/the-great-unz-cole-holocaust-debate/

    I assume the author doesn’t want to really look at the facts, but notice that the author only refers to Ron Unz and avoids the comments, which is where the beef is.

    Ron Unz has basic knowledge, but is not well versed on the depth of Revisionist research.
    Cole on the other was threatened is now playing a seriously flawed version of “holocaust-lite”.

    What Cole claims is no more credible / possible than what the major players of the “Holocaust Industry” claim.
    Cole also has a very serious alcohol problem and all that goes with such a problem.

    Notice that the author steers clear of the vast amount of Revisionist research.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2164. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Very good, it is Jews of Halacha.

    I looked at these links. Let us accept Vagner’s figure 4 million for Halachic Jews around 1988. Intermarriage does not confuse this number as by mother Jewish 1 million intermarried Jews gives as the next generation 1 million daughters, assuming zero population growth.

    I estimated the Jewish population growth from the censuses of 1921 and 1931: The Jewish population of Poland grew from 2.77 million in 1921 to 3 million in 1931. That is 0.8% per year. The AJY estimate of 3.25 million in 1939 is 1% growth. I take the 0.8% yearly growth. It is much smaller than the growth of the Polish population, which between 1950 and 1960 was 1.7% yearly.

    Population growth after 1988 can be considered zero.

    Then in 40 years (1948 to 1988) the growth is 37.5% (1.008 to 40). Assuming 4 million in 1988, this gives 2.9 million in 1948. This seems to fit to the figures very well. I though it should be a bit under 3 million. The population of the Soviet Union and Baltic states in 1939, according to AJY set to 2.8 million would be 0.9 million smaller (immigration to the USA). These two reductions to the death toll from AJY figures (4.5 million) reduce the death toll to 2.7 million. This probably is the best figure. Of course it can be a bit smaller, like 2.5 million, figures are not precise.

    Figures match now. I guess we have to accept that Jews just did not speak. Those, who were allowed to emigrate starting in 1988 were not any more the Jews (old ones), who were resettled to the east. They could have been very young in the war time and resettled, but they did not understand where they were.

    The census data of 1921 showed one interesting thing. Of 2.77 million Jews in Poland 2 million considered themselves as Jews by nationality and only 0.7 million as Poles. Of these 0.7 million probably 0.3 million were in Eastern Poland, so only 0.4 million could have considered themselves as Polish Jews after the war. It is estimated that 0.3 million Polish Jews survived the war, so there is not special problem of where the Polish Jews disappeared. Most of them become Jews of self-defined nationality Jewish living in the Soviet Union.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2165. j2 says:
    @Wally

    Wally-troll writes: “Of course you think the ‘unsettled’ Jews were murdered and dumped into claimed & allegedly known mass graves ….. which do not exist.”

    Could you stop this your nonsense. If you have read and understood my comments on this thread you know that I do not think that the ‘unsettled” Jews were dumped in mass graves.

    For you only I can reveal that there was no resettlement to the east. It was all cheating. Operation Reinhardt meant robbing Jewish property in Auschwitz, just like Rudolf Hoess wrote in Der Kommendant von Auschwitz. All 6 million Jews were gassed in Auschwitz and their ashes were dumped to Wistula, exactly as the Communists told. Nazis ate Jews for breakfast and made soap out of their fat.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2166. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    FKA max, you mentioned Hoess book as a problem to revisionists. I reread the book and wrote some comments on it. I think Hoess wrote the book volontarily, but it is not really a confession in the sense it is often understood. It actually refutes his confession when read carefully.
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/21/a-brief-look-at-the-commandant-of-auschwitz-by-rudolf-hoess/

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @FKA Max
  2167. Look at how the comment section has become in large part a debate about census numbers — a topic which Unz almost totally ignores. That’s because commenters (on “both sides,” so to speak) realize that census numbers is the ground on which this battle is won or lost. Did 6 million jews disappear or not? If they did, then denialists/revisionists will continue to get eye rolls.

    Yet what I’ve noticed about denialists/revisionists is they don’t like to talk about census numbers. They like to armwave about Lipstadt’s character, the unfairness of European free speech laws, tests of the soil at Auschwitz, etc. Yawn. Did 6 million disappear or not? If not, show me the census numbers. If there’s a “there” to this topic, then the denial/revisionists ought to be producing tight, efficient, 5-paragraph reports about census data — not sprawling 17,000 word exercises in armwaving and water-muddying.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
  2168. Wally says:
    @Ben Franklin

    “Census numbers”? LOL

    Clearly you mean census numbers where Jews avoided being counted as Jews, where country borders changed drastically, the fact that massive numbers of Jews were moved wholesale as even they admit, etc, etc,
    I suggest you actually read the comments here. You’re in over your head.

    You try to defend a narrative which says that 6,000,000 Jews & 5,000,000 ‘others’ were murdered and went to / were dumped into allegedly known enormous mass graves. Those remains cannot be shown to exist.
    That is where Jews supposedly WENT according the ‘holocaust’ narrative and there’s nothing you can do about it. It is a truly impossible narrative, so you try to avoid it at all costs.

    The alleged ‘gas chambers’ were scientifically impossible, you avoid that too at all costs. LOL

    Your census strategy is another Zionist bullshit strawman.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Ben Franklin
  2169. Wally says:
    @j2

    LENGTHY, select ‘more’ if necessary.

    More denial of the fact that Hoess was brutally tortured.
    ex.:

    “The prisoner (Hoess) was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: ‘Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.’”(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    Not to mention laughable impossibility of the alleged ‘gas chambers’ and the non-existent human remains that are alleged to be in known locations.

    recommended:
    Commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolf Höss, His Torture and His Forced Confessions, By Carlo Mattogno , Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/4901/?lang=en

    the British Obtained the Confessions of Rudolf Höss, By Robert Faurisson: https://codoh.com/library/document/1968/?lang=en

    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=hoess+confessions

    http://www.codoh.com

  2170. Wally says:
    @j2

    Moving the the goal posts again, we see.

    You claim that millions of Jews were murdered, that would mean immense human remains, IF true.

    The ‘holocaust’ narrative says ‘6M Jews &5M others’ went to huge mass graves …. which are not there.

    Are you saying that your claimed millions of murdered Jews could have been made to disappear? LOL

    Indeed, your comments are here to read. I doubt if you can keep track of your lies. But then liars always have that problem.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2171. j2 says:
    @Ben Franklin

    “Yet what I’ve noticed about denialists/revisionists is they don’t like to talk about census numbers. They like to armwave about Lipstadt’s character, the unfairness of European free speech laws, tests of the soil at Auschwitz, etc. Yawn. Did 6 million disappear or not? If not, show me the census numbers. If there’s a “there” to this topic, then the denial/revisionists ought to be producing tight, efficient, 5-paragraph reports about census data — not sprawling 17,000 word exercises in armwaving and water-muddying.”

    A short answer, 6 million Jews did not die. You have calculations in
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/lets-take-some-example-conspiracy-theory/
    proves beyond any doubt that the death toll for Auschwitz, 1-1.5 million, is false.

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/continueing-from-the-previous-post/
    proves beyond any doubt that over 200,000 survived Operation Reinhardt camps.

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/20/h4-finished-this-conspiracy-theory/
    makes very probable that the population of the Soviet Union and Baltic countries in 1939 is about 1 million too large.

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/05/29/how-many-jews-died-in-the-holocaust-the-simple-summary/
    a simple summary for the kinds of you who do not read more than two-tree A4s. You know, I have read more books than you have ever seen.

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/02/yad-vashem-numbers-show-the-same-as-my-earlier-calculations/
    my calculations are verified by Yad Vashem numbers.

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/04/fate-of-jews-in-the-west-and-western-poland-from-yad-vashem-numbers/
    continuation of the same.

    “Yet what I’ve noticed about denialists/revisionists is they don’t like to talk about census numbers.”
    Many people have done census calculations. I have done census calculations, so it seems to be has FKA max. It is the H-trolls who do not do census calculations because they know that any honest person doing those calculations comes to the same result, 6 million is false. You try, take the AJY numbers and do your calculations, you will convince yourself that there is a 400,000 death toll upper bound for Auschwitz and not all could have died in Operation Reinhardt camps. These alone show the official story wrong, but do it yourself so that nobody manipulates you in any way. The Jewish numbers, AJ Yearbooks, are in the web.

    • Replies: @Ben Franklin
  2172. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    Thanks so much, j2!

    I archived your article for you: http://archive.is/q69GJ

    FKA max, you mentioned Hoess book as a problem to revisionists.

    Actually, I was quoting David Irving, who stated that during a lecture/presentation he gave. I believe, but I could be wrong, the “problem to Revisionists” Irving is referring to is probably that Höss claimed/acknowledged that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz etc., when hardcore revisionists claim no gassings took place there:

    Round about 1958, he gets hold of the “memoirs” of Rudolf Höss, which were published by the Institute of Contemporary History in Munich in that year. Höss wrote these “memoirs” while he was in Krakow, in Polish captivity. They’ve always been a problem – let’s be frank about this – they’ve been a problem to Revisionists.

    Eichmann’s comments on the Höss memoirs are annihilating. Reading where Rudolf Höss is saying that two and a half million Jews have been liquidated at Auschwitz, the camp where he was commandant, Eichmann comments, “Where does Höss believe that he got these two and a half million Jews? Not from me. Because to have liquidated two and a half million decrepit, elderly, unworkable Jews, I must have had to feed to him three, four, five, six or seven million Jews in that space of time, and from the transport point of view alone this would have been totally impossible.”

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2521164

  2173. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    j2,

    I don’t know if you have seen/read this comment of mine yet from a few months ago, which is mostly anecdotal evidence, but, in my opinion, further supports that the post-World War 2 Soviet Jewish population was/is much larger than is generally known/acknowledged:

    Half of the top 25 billionaires in Russia, I believe, come from a Jewish background. I know strong Jewish ethnic and religious networking, nepotism, etc. exists, but to achieve such a high billionaire density even the Jewish population has to be at least 2% of the Russian population (about 3 million at least out of the 150 million Russian population) like it is the case in the U.S. (about 6 million Jews out of a 300 million U.S. population).

    Not just 400,000 (which would be 0.3% of the Russian population) or even lower estimates, like some sources claim. Wikipedia for example puts the number of Jews in Russia, at the moment, at a laughable: … 179,500 …
    […]
    , which would be about o.15% of the Russian population, but Jews are half of the top 25 billionaires in Russia?

    Something does not quite compute here, to put it mildly 😉

    https://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2394694

    https://www.unz.com/tsaker/no-fifth-column-in-the-kremlin-think-again/#comment-2396189

    Of the top 200 richest persons in Russia 25% are Jewish:

    Report: 25% of wealthiest Russians are Jewish


    Website says 48 of top 200 Russian billionares are Jews; Putin aide lashes out at ‘Nazi report.’

    Jewish Ashkenazis represent 21% of all the billionaires in Russia, even though they comprise only 0.11% of the population. The Ashkenazi billionaires include Viktor Vekselberg (net worth of $17.2 billion), Leonid Michelson (net worth of $15.6 billion), German Khan (net worth of $11.3 billion), Mikhail Prokhorov (net worth of $10.9 billion), and Roman Abramovich (net worth of $9.1 billion).

    Six Kavkazi Jews appear on the list, with a combined net worth of $10.6 billion, and an average individual net worth of $1.8 billion. The richest Kavkazi Jew has a net worth of $3.6 billion, and the least wealthy $0.5 billion.

    According to the Russian Bureau of Statistics, there are 762 Russian citizens classified as Kavkazi Jews and they represent 0.00035% percent of the population. Compared to the overall population, the Kavkazi Jews of Russia are the wealthiest ethnic group in the entire country.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4587086,00.html Archived link: http://archive.is/tmGPf#selection-955.0-971.278

    Census of Russian Billionaires 2017

    Still, some general trends could be clearly discerned. Russians – that is, Russians and Russians misattributed as Ukrainians and Belorussians – consituted about 66% of the list’s members and almost exactly half of the combined capital of $481 billion. Jews and Mountain Jews constituted 24% of the list, and had 28% of the capital. All of the rest belonged to Caucasian and Muslim minorities. Notably, there were no traditionally Buddhist/animist Siberian minorities on the list.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/#p_1_3:1-73

    Abramovich is latest of more than 30 Russian Jewish tycoons to move to Israel

    Others were closer to the government and sought the advantages of an Israeli passport, such as visa-free entry to the European Union. Some were drawn by tax breaks for new immigrants to Israel. They are also more protected in Israel against the threat of extradition, for real or trumped-up charges. The ancient Jewish state of Israel was revived by UN mandate after World War II too late to save millions of Jews from the Nazi Holocaust, but guarantees citizenship for anyone with at least one Jewish grandparent — the Nazi criterion — to ensure it serves as a haven for Jews escaping persecution.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/abramovich-is-latest-of-more-than-30-russian-tycoons-to-move-to-israel/

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @j2
  2174. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Mr. Unz can’t be ignored anymore. Probably more to come…

    From the Neocons at the Spectator:

    The curious case of Ron Unz
    The former publisher of The American Conservative is a case study in contrarianism gone haywire

    Unz suggests that a work of Holocaust denial ‘persuasively demonstrates’ that far fewer Jews were killed than has been thought and encourages readers to ‘take a look and decide for themselves’, but does not mention its numerous, detailed rebuttals.

    https://spectator.us/2018/09/ron-unz/

    Like its sister publication The Daily Telegraph, The Spectator is generally Atlanticist and Eurosceptic in outlook, favouring close ties with the United States rather than with the European Union, and supportive of Israel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator#Policy_positions

    Like I mentioned: “This is just speculation on my part, but I really believe, especially after his unhinged attack on Mr. Unz, that David Cole is a Holocaust research gatekeeper, and potentially, or even probably, an Israeli intelligence asset.” – https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2520013

    After David Cole’s attack on Mr. Unz, I knew that he would definitely be in the Israel Firsters’ crosshairs, and this Spectator piece confirms it, in my opinion:

    Confronting Denial
    ‏ @AgainstDenial
    22 minutes ago

    Kudos to @bdsixsmith for linking to our rebuttal of the denier Sanning in his article on Ron Unz’s Holocaust denial craziness. […] BTW, we published a point-by-point rebuttal of Unz’s Holocaust denial too 12:33 PM – 21 Sep 2018

  2175. @Wally

    @Wally

    The conventional history says that 17 million jews existed in the world before the Holocaust (based on census figures), and 11 million existed after (ditto). If denialists have a case, they ought to be able to show that this demographic collapse never took place. If they don’t have a case, then I’d expect a lot of long-winded armwaving about whether bones can be converted to smoke, whether oven doors can be made of wood or not, etc. Denialists follow the latter pattern.

    When people have evidence on their side, they tend to make simple, clear, efficient arguments. When people don’t make simple, clear, efficient arguments, it’s a strong indication that they don’t have evidence on their side.

  2176. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Some more important passages from Mr. Karlin’s blog post:

    Jews have 41 (20.5%) people in the list, with 24.8% of the capital.https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/#p_1_10

    Jews own about a quarter of Russia but more than a third of the US – that said, they only make up 0.1% of the Russian population, versus 2% of the US population. That said, as Vladimirov points out, the more relevant indicator would be their 0.5% share of the Soviet population c.1989.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/#p_1_19

    Here Steve Sailer comments on these figures:

    The single most dangerous worry since 1914 is that of a major land war in central and eastern Europe. Therefore, it’s important to debunk false assumptions that stoke perilous hatreds involving that region. One of the most destabilizing and least true myths at present is the widespread belief in the U.S. that the Putin regime in Russia is anti-Semitic.

    By all objective evidence, Putin would be considered pro-Semitic, as is often pointed out by Israel’s foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman. But Putin’s revival of state power in Russia has triggered old Jewish-American anti-Czarist reflexes.

    In reality, Jews are doing extremely well under the pro-Semitic Putin, being disproportionately represented in the ranks of Russia’s billionaires by perhaps a couple of orders of magnitude. That’s an important fact that shouldn’t be hushed up: knowing the truth can help cool off the war fever.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/putins-billionaires-jews-make-up-over-15th/#p_1_12:1-59

  2177. Wally says:
    @Ben Franklin

    IOW, you dodged my previous posts. Typical. Everyone see my comment #2208.
    Census number are useless as even your comrade j2 has stated.
    recommended:
    How Many Jews Died in the German Concentration Camps, By Carl O. Nordling : https://codoh.com/library/document/2344/?lang=en

    Victims: A Statistical Analysis, W. Benz and W. N. Sanning – A Comparison, By Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/930/?lang=en
    To summarize:
    – The alleged gassings were scientifically impossible.
    – The alleged human remains for the alleged 6M Jews & 5M others, 11,000,000*, that are claimed to be in known locations do not exist.
    * Equals the population of London.

    Game, set, match.

    Why do some people want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists bring them life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered. Jews should be elated.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:http://forum.codoh.com

  2178. @j2

    j2: Nothing you’ve linked to disputes the consensus that there were 17 million before the holocaust and 11 million after.

    • Troll: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @j2
    , @jilles dykstra
  2179. j2 says:
    @FKA Max

    Could many of these billionaires be half-Jewish? Intermarriage increases the number easily.

    I think Vagner’s figure 10 million for the former Soviet Union counting full, half and one fourth Jews can be correct. Jews started intermarrying in the Soviet Union earlier, and this can explain why Korherr presents the figure c. 4 million for Jews in Russia, which is about 1 million too high, but can be correct as Korherr counts half and quarter Jews as Jews. After the war there were 2.9 million Jews with a Jewish mother and maybe 1 million with Jewish father. Korherr was more correct than American Jewish Yearbook concerning Romanian Jews. Korherr’s figures for Hungary and Romania match with AJY’s estimate for Hungary and the modern estimate for Romania in 1939, 600,000, while AJY estimates Romania to 900,000.

    Soviet Jews had to be largely intermarried in 1939 because otherwise, with population growth of 1.5% a year, there had been only 1 million in the Soviet Union and Baltic countries, but there were about 1.9 million. Jews had earlier a high population growth of 1.5%, so the low population growth of 0.8% later was caused by many factors: emigration, older population because of emigration, and a change of lifestyle to more secular.

  2180. Wally says:
    @Ben Franklin

    Of course, another irrational Zionist, Ben Franklin, dodges what I posted which shreds his fake ‘census’ nonsense. See my comments: 2217, 2208 above.

    – Notice that he cannot show us the alleged human remains said by Zionist “historians” to exist in known mass graves that are claimed for a total of 11,000,000.
    – Notice that he doesn’t try to tell us how his laughably impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the ‘holocaust’ storyline. And that’s why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it. Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    Ron Unz goes full on Revisionist: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11985

    http://www.codoh.com

  2181. j2 says:
    @Ben Franklin

    “j2: Nothing you’ve linked to disputes the consensus that there were 17 million before the holocaust and 11 million after.”

    The following calculation is in the second link I provided you with explanations. It is based on AJY figures.
    The number of Jewish survivors in Europe (in millions):
    0.389, lived on countries from which Nazis did not capture Jews.
    0.646, Jews of Western and Central European countries, which were not transferred, see [1],
    2, survivors in the Soviet Union after the war.
    0.41, survivors in Nazi camps.
    0.088, survivors in Poland, not included in the 0.41 million.
    0.3, survivors in Romania.
    0.383, arrived to DP-camps after 1946 mainly from Poland and Romania.
    0.11, transferred to Palestina by Aliyah Bet,
    0.075, legal transfer to Palestina during 1939-46.
    The sum is 4.401 million. There were 8.89 million originally, thus the death toll calculated from survivors is 4.489.
    Thus, the total death toll of Jews in WWII is 4.5 million according to AJY population estimates.

    Then the third reference makes very likely that about 1 million Jews emigrated to the USA avoiding quotas (by moving first to a third country and immigrating to the USA in the quota of that country).

    FKA max has provided many links indicating that the Soviet Jewish population was about 3 million after the war. From population estimates by Vagner and birth rate 0.8% as in Poland, I calculated that there were 2.9 million Jews in the Soviet union in 1948, not 2 million. The official 2 million is a round number and can be e.g. 2.5 million, seems to be it can be 2.9 million.

    Subtracting 1 million and 0.9 million from 4.5 million we get the present estimate for the Jewish death toll as 2.6 million. Your claim that there were 17 million Jews before the war and 11 million after it is not a consensus even among Holocaust believing researchers. If there would be a consensus of this figure, the death toll estimate of 4.2 million, which is among the accepted ones, would be known incorrect. If there would be a consensus, then Hilberg’s 5.2 million death toll would be known incorrect.

    There were about 15 million before the war and about 12 million after, but the exact figures are not known. You are clearly a disinformation agent, who does not know this topic and writes comments without thinking. Do your own calculations and present your calculation, not longer than mine above in this comment of how you get 6 million death toll. I will break it in a minute.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Ben Franklin
  2182. j2 says:
    @Ben Franklin

    “The conventional history says that 17 million jews existed in the world before the Holocaust (based on census figures), and 11 million existed after (ditto)”

    I refer to Collier’s Encyclopedia from 1950, that is after the war when the population estimates were very much as well known as today. On the entry Jews volume 11 page 413 there is:
    Despite repeated efforts no really satisfactory census of the Jewish population of the world has yet been made. … In 1939, before Hitler’s organized campaign of extermination…the American Jewish Committee estimated that the world total of the Jewish population was 15,688,259, distributed as follows Europe 8.939,608… A mid-century census would have to subtract between 5,000,000 and 6,000,000 European Jews believed to have been killed by Nazis.

    So here we are, 15.7 million before the war, not 17 million as you claim. However, the AJY figure for the Soviet Union and Baltic states is about 1 million too high. The real world population before the war was about 15 million. As for the 11 million after the war, which you claim is a census, Collier’s Encyclopedia suggests that the figure 15.7 million should be lowered to 10.7 or 9.7 million, while we do know it was higher than that. Even you state that it was 11 million. Notice that 11 million gives the death toll 4.7 million, which is very close to the 4.5 million that follows from AJY figures with the modern reduction of Romanian death toll. Thus, 4.7 million death toll was the truth in 1950, while today we know that less died in Romania and the death toll from corrected AJY figures is 4.5 million. Then we have the two reductions: the over-estimation of the Soviet and Baltic figure by 1 million before the war reducing the world Jewish population to 14.8 million and the under-estimation of the Jewish population in the Soviet Union after the war, which increases the Jewish world population in 1948 to 11.9 million. We get the numbers I gave you, 15 million before, 12 million after. More carefully calculating the death toll is about 2.7 million. This figure agrees also with Korherr’s calculations in his report. Naturally, there is some uncertainty of about 200,000.

    “If denialists have a case, they ought to be able to show that this demographic collapse never took place. If they don’t have a case, then I’d expect a lot of long-winded armwaving about whether bones can be converted to smoke, whether oven doors can be made of wood or not, etc. Denialists follow the latter pattern. ”

    The pattern of hand waving is followed by you. You refuse do the calculations yourself. You refer to some non-existing consensus. You give intentionally wrong numbers. You do not check these numbers. You do not read and study the links I provided you with calculations. You try to joke and ridicule. These are all signs of a person who is no researcher and knows nothing of the topic.

    Hasbara commander, please, send some more intelligent disinformation agents, I am bored with these.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2183. @Ben Franklin

    Which consensus ?
    ANONYMOUS, ‘The Myth of Six Million’, Los Angelos, 1973, 1969
    It is a long time since I read the book, but if I remember correctly the lowest estimate of jews killed was three hundred thousand
    Hoggan was the author, he died in poverty.
    Freedom of expression

  2184. @Ben Franklin

    What the number of jews was before and after WWII nobody knows, since a definition of what is or was a jew never existed

  2185. @Wally

    You seem to be unable to understand the words ‘is the story’.
    At the asserted execution place, the usual story, with pictures, there is a tiny museum, on how no human remains can be found, cremations, followed by hammering into dust the bones by those to be executed.
    Why there was and is a railway, I do not know.
    That Germans executed there, quite possible.
    Who, in what numbers, who knows ?

  2186. Wally says:

    IOW, it’s all bullshit and you admit it.

    The question is, why you would even present such a patently false tale?

    http://www.codoh.com

  2187. Wally says:
    @j2

    j2 said:
    “Subtracting 1 million and 0.9 million from 4.5 million we get the present estimate for the Jewish death toll as 2.6 million.”

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    Neither number is the slightest bit reliable and the claimed immense human remains for his laughably claimed “2.6 million Jews” do not exist, hence more bizarre BS from j2.

    We also note that j2 dodges the claim that ‘5,000,000 others’ were also supposedly killed.

    And not a single claimed enormous mass grave, in allegedly known locations can be shown, not one.

    I love it when the Believers eat their own.

    • Replies: @j2
  2188. j2 says:
    @Wally

    “j2 said:
    “Subtracting 1 million and 0.9 million from 4.5 million we get the present estimate for the Jewish death toll as 2.6 million.”

    Garbage in, garbage out.
    Neither number is the slightest bit reliable and the claimed immense human remains for his laughably claimed “2.6 million Jews” do not exist, hence more bizarre BS from j2.
    We also note that j2 dodges the claim that ’5,000,000 others’ were also supposedly killed.”

    Estimates for Jewish populations of Europe before WWII are given in AJ Yearbook 1939-40. These are the numbers to which Collier’s Encyclopedia (1950) bases the estimate: the world total of the Jewish population was 15,688,259, distributed as follows: Europe 8.939,608… The numbers of Jewish populations in Europe in 1939 have not changed since that time. There are only a few countries where the AJ estimate was uncertain, which AJ mentions: the Soviet Union, Romania, Poland and the Baltic countries. Romania is rather clear now, the death toll and the Jewish population both decreased. Poland still has the uncertainty from 2.7 to 3.3 million, but I think 3.1 million is the best estimate for 1939. There remains the Soviet Union and the three Baltic countries. There is very good reason to believe that the population of this area in 1939 was 1.8 million, not 2.8 million and that in 1948 the Jewish population of the Soviet Union was 2.9 million, not 2 million. Apart from the Soviet Union and Romania the numbers are based on rather recent census data. Romania has been studied well enough by now. There are Vagner’s estimations for the Soviet Union around 1988 supporting the 0.9 million increase for 1948 and USA Jewish population demographics supporting the 1 million reduction before 1939. These numbers are no garbage.

    In the last 50,000 years billions of humans have lived and died in Europe. It is laughable that Wally cannot explain where their remains are. Where are the mass graves? Where have all these billions of bodies been hidden? Wally claims people have been living in Europe for 50,000 years and cannot show where they are buried. Clearly, as Wally reasons, these people could not exist as we cannot find the remains. But there have been people living in Europe for 1700 generations.

    As for other victims of war, I have not calculated it, but I did write about Polish losses in WWII
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/12/28/how-many-native-poles-died-in-wwii/
    It says nothing of 5 million non-Jews having been killed. It explains why there were 2.5 million fewer ethnic Poles after the war.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2189. phil says:

    To Ron Unz,

    Thank you for this forum. Thanks as well to the Founding Fathers for the 1st Amendment. I think you are going to have to think more seriously about the Reinhardt camps. As you know, Holocaustians and David Irving believe that about 2.5 million people were sent to the Reinhardt camps, and most of them were killed there. If so, that would be a huge corpse-disposal problem.

    Deniers assert that most of the poeple were transited to parts of the Western USSR occupied by German forces, but outbound train records are missing or have been destroyed. It is very difficult or impossible to access the relevant Soviet archives. Thanks to Mattogno and Graf, it has by now been documented that many Western European Jews were sent to camps in the USSR, but most of these Jews did not pass through the Reinhardt camps. Some Jewish “holocaust survivors” interviewed for Spielberg have apparently mentioned that they had been in the Western USSR. But if the true number of deported Jews (after Operation Barbarossa began) were in the millions, it seems that we should have heard more by now.

    Deniers rightfully lampoon the testimony of Kurt Gerstein about having knowledge of mass gassings in the Reinhardt camps, but Wilhelm Pfannenstiehl is a more difficult witness to discredit. He accompanied Gerstein on a trip to Belzec and claimed to have witnessed a gassing. Paul Rassinier, the “father” of Holocaust Revisionism, made a point of talking to every alleged witness, one on one. He concluded that a policy of mass gassings did not exist, but was convinced that Pfannensteihl was a credible witness. On the other hand, Pfannenstiehl concluded that what he claims to have witnessed was an isolated event authorized by Globobcnik, the Reinhardt commander, and not a general policy of Hitler or even Himmler. But who really knows?

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
  2190. j2 says:
    @phil

    The number of Jews sent to Operation Reinhardt camps (Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec) was around 1.5 million. I have used the number 1.45 million, which seems to me the most correct.

    The case of gassings in Operation Reinhardt camp is not that either no-one was gassed or nearly everybody sent there were gassed. Some amount of people were buried there, so some amount died there. I consider it probable that some people were gassed on these camps. T4 staff was sent to these camps, so I assume every camp had an eugenics center, which did kill some people, like Action 14f13 did kill mentally ill and disabled from concentration camps. There is no need to discard Wilhelm Pfannenstiehl’s testimony but to see if it fits to the scenario of an eugenics center.
    There is some evidence that T4 did gas patients and not good reason to deny it.

    The issue is how large portion of Jews sent there were killed. Between 1946 and 1948 come 260,000 Jews from the East (the USSR) to DP camps and emigrated to Israel, the USA, Canada or South Africa. Additionally came 110,000 Western Polish Jews to the DP camps, also form the East.

    My guess is that 10% were killed there in eugenics centers, 50% were resettled and 40% were used for work, This agrees with Goebbels’ 60%, 40% formula. 40% taken to work was 580,000. From this group came 370,000 to DP camps between 1946 and 1948. They went from camp to camp and did not realize that they had been through Operation Reinhardt camps.

    My hypothesis is that 50%, 750,000, were resettled and the Soviet Union did not let them out. They were never seen in the West. They took new identities as ID papers were burned in the Operation Reinhardt and that is why they are missing people in Yad Vashem data. Why they did not talk? It was not good for Jews, nor for Communists.

    This then is why there are no Jews telling that they were resettled in the USSR.

    • Replies: @phil
  2191. Wally says:
    @j2

    So please explain how your alleged 2.6 Million Jews were killed and why the alleged enormous human remains are not where they are said to be.

    All I have seen from you are laughable: ‘I estimate, ‘I assume’, ‘maybe’, ‘it’s kind of possible’, etc. LOL
    Hardly the work of a serious forensic study.

    You say:
    “It explains why there were 2.5 million fewer ethnic Poles after the war.”

    No, it does not, you are pure bluff. It’s just more garbage in, garbage out.
    Of course you ignored:
    WJC’s Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 – 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191

    And being the shyster that you are, you dodge the claim by your own “Holocau$t Industry” that ‘5M others’ were allegedly killed and buried in the same way as Jews. That claim just adds another layer complication for your already laughable attempts to support the ‘holocaust’ narrative.
    So you then try to hide that huge part of the ‘holocaust’ story while you engage in statistical, and investigative nonsense.

    You’re a charlatan.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2192. Wally says:
    @phil

    – Get it straight. There is no more proof for the laughable ‘2.5M’ than there is for the equally impossible ‘6M’. The srigorous scientific, forensic standards must be applied in both cases.

    said:
    “Some Jewish “holocaust survivors” interviewed for Spielberg have apparently mentioned that they had been in the Western USSR. But if the true number of deported Jews (after Operation Barbarossa began) were in the millions, it seems that we should have heard more by now.”

    – Those fake “survivors” were interviewed by Spielberg’s people in SIXTY different countries.
    So, we have “heard more”. And of course you have no proof that millions of Jews are ‘missing’. Jews went where Jews are and they are everywhere. There are many other sources besides Spielberg’s videos.
    said:
    “On the other hand, Pfannenstiehl concluded that what he claims to have witnessed was an isolated event authorized by Globobcnik, the Reinhardt commander, and not a general policy of Hitler or even Himmler. But who really knows?”*

    Anyone using science, rational thought, & logic “really know”.
    You are laughably trying to spin the orthodox ‘holocaust’ narrative because you cannot substantiate your claims for it Hey it’s a start. After all, all Revisionists are former Believers.

    The official ‘holocaust story states that ‘6M Jews, 5M others’ were all murdered in the same scintifically impossible ways and their remains exist in allegedly known locations, but those alleged remains are not there. So there it is.

    I sense you are recognizing that your fantasy ‘holocaust’ tale is not sustainable when scrutinized by informed Revisionists, good, as I said, it’s a start. So now, as a way to psychologically hold on to ‘woe is the poor Jews’, you attempt play the classic ‘holocaust-lite’ canard …. for which there is no more proof than for the full monty ‘holocaust’ that is the official story.

    * claims about Pfannenstiel debunked here https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Wilhelm+Pfannenstiel
    * and are the claims about Globocnik, here: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Globocnik

    Only liars demand censorship.
    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
    , @phil
  2193. phil says:
    @j2

    The Korherr Report referred to 1.27 million people sent to the Reinhardt camps, but only covered 1942. Original documents at Stanford’s Hoover Institution refer to Jewish belongings seized at the camps by the Nazis in both 1942 and 1943. Since the 1943 loot seized by the Nazis was about the same amount as the 1942 loot, it is common to double Korherr’s number to estimate the camp total for 1942 and 1943 combined–thus, the 2.5 million figure. Am I wrong?

    Do not the numbers sent to the DP camps include Polish and Baltic Jews who had been deported eastward by Stalin before the Germans invaded?

    • Replies: @j2
  2194. phil says:
    @Wally

    I am very much put off by the standard Holocaust narrative and Shoah Business. Do not lump me in with devotees to Holocaustianity.

    However, to say that Reinhardt campers “went where Jews go” is a cop-out. No one really knows how many people died in the camps, and no one really knows how many people transited to the USSR. You seem to assume that if anyone died at a camp, the person’s remains would be there. Maybe yes, maybe no.

    I envy your certitude.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2195. phil says:
    @Wally

    The CODOH material regarding Pfannenstiel does not contradict his testimony.

    Thomas Kues does note some additional material that is a more a commentary on Pfannenstiel as a person; this material can be seized upon to try to create doubt about his credibility. The CODOH reading on the color of gas chamber victims (red vs. blue) misses the main point insofar as it focuses on carbon monoxide poisoning–but what Pfannenstiel actually said concerned apparent death by asphyxiation. Carbon monoxide often causes its victims to turn reddish-pinkish (but occasionally blueish), while asphyxiation more commonly produces a blueish tinge.

    Note that (in another CODOH reading) Robert Faurisson does not directly critique Pfannenstiel; he essentially ignores him and focuses on Kurt Gerstein–an easier target.

    Paul Rassinier apparently met with Pfannenstiel for quite awhile and asked him numerous pointed questions. Rassinier was not an easy person. Nevertheless, Pfannenstiel won him over.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2196. @j2

    j2:

    After much arm-waving, you finally got to your core thesis, which is:

    “There were about 15 million before the war and about 12 million after.”

    Please cite or link to the census or almanac reports from before and after the war which confirm this. Do not link me to water-muddying blog posts claiming this or that Soviet village over- or under-estimated its jewish population by 500 people. I want clear, hard census-based evidence that “there were about 15 million before the war and about 12 million after” — which is the closest I’ve ever seen revisionists come to an actual thesis statement (usually it’s a lot of armwaving woo-woo crap about bones and smoke and soil acidity).

    I will say that I’m noticing your argument depends on the idea that many millions of jews were in the USSR. If the claim is that the USSR had a very large population of jews, then how come denialists always say that the USSR was only 2% jewish (but had a 90% jewish bureaucracy — also false, but whatever)?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  2197. Ron Unz says:

    Well, this immensely long thread has easily broken all previous records, with well over 300,000 words of comments, and its still going strong. Since people are still reading it, here’s a question to the audience…

    I think it’s widely recognized that “The Holocaust” is one of the absolutely central beliefs of modern-day America and the Western world in general, ferociously enforced by the ADL and numerous other activist-organizations and individuals. Any deviations from orthodoxy tend to subjected to blistering assaults.

    It’s now been almost four weeks since I published this long and quite controversial article on “Holocaust Denial,” and I was immediately told to prepare for the most vicious wave of attacks and denunciations known to history. I said “maybe but maybe not,” and just as I half-expected the latter has turned out to be the case.

    Readership of this article has been enormous relative to nearly anything else we’ve published and the comments have broken all records, while I have at least a couple of hundred journalists and intellectuals on my regular distribution list. Yet after nearly a month, the silence from the ADL and its friends has been absolutely deafening. Have they all been on vacation or something?

    Moreover, several previous articles of mine in the American Pravda series had dealt with similarly ultra-touchy subjects, starting with “Oddities of the Jewish religion” or perhaps with the JFK Assassination or even the one on historian David Irving. Surely, three months is pretty long for any sort of vacation.

    Now I think I have a pretty good notion of why there’s been such enormous silence. But I’m curious what theories others might have formed.

  2198. Wally says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron:

    What can they say that hasn’t already been discredited?

    This thread has become a mini database of Revisionist research which shreds their fake & impossible ‘holocaust’.

    The last thing they want is for more attention to be given to you, a Jew, and the comments that have been made here.

    The more they speak the worse it becomes for their fake, but profitable narrative.

    We may see some extraneous blog posts which attempt to discredit you personally , but they will never be truthful about what you actually say and what Revisionists have posted in response.

    The ‘holocaust’ Big Lie simply does not stand up to rational, scientific scrutiny.
    After all, that’s why there are laws against free speech concerning it, and that’s why Revisionists are attacked, persecuted, & demonized.

    Ron, you have really done a number on them. You are making a difference. Keep it up.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2199. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ben Franklin

    I want clear, hard census-based evidence that “there were about 15 million before the war and about 12 million after

    Why did they revise the numbers up – which only brought the difference up to 5,376,520, not 6 million – in 1949? Were they “cooking the books” (my emphases)?

    Hanson W. Baldwin (Military Editor) of the NY Times wrote to a reader mentioning the 12 million figure for after the war, after he consulted with “the authorities” at American Jewish Committee et al.:

    {“Thank you for your letter of inquiry of January 6.
    “The world Jewish population figures printed in this
    story came from the 1948 edition of the World Almanac.
    Later we checked it with the American Jewish Committee and
    other sources and said in the correction, as I noted to you
    in my previous letter, that the authorities agree that
    Hitler’s wholesale massacre of Jews during the war reduced
    the Jewish population to perhaps 12 million today (2/26/48).} – http://archive.is/ZaYxK#selection-151.1-165.61

    The University of Alberta library has the World Almanac issues for the pertinent period for 1941, 1944, 1947, 1948, and 1949. The figures listed for total world Jewish population are as follows:

    1941 15,748,091
    1944 15,192,089
    1947 15,688,259
    1948 15,688,259
    1949 11,266,600

    Now you may be wondering what happened to all those Jews in 1948-49. No fresh estimates were made between 1938 and 1947. The figures listed for 1941, 1947, and 1948 are identified as estimates made in 1938. The source for the estimate for 1944 is not given, and the numbers are listed differently than in other years. In 1944, the numbers are given as a part of a list of various world religions rather than standing on their own with a country-by-country breakdown as in the other years.

    Only in 1949 are postwar estimates employed, the figures given are for estimates made in 1948. A year or two lag seems to be common for various other population estimates given by the World Almanac.

    The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491.

    [The difference between the “authorities agree that Hitler’s wholesale massacre of Jews during the war reduced the Jewish population to perhaps 12 million today (2/26/48)” figure is even lower at about 3,748,091 (1941 15,748,091 – 12,000,000=3,748,091)]

    In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference.

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/worldalmanac.html Archived link: http://archive.is/ZaYxK

    The 1933 World Jewish population according to the World Almanac was approximately 15,315,000:

    Source: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432 Archived link and screenshot: http://archive.is/rT9bI and http://archive.is/rT9bI/image

    • Replies: @Ben Franklin
  2200. Wally says:
    @phil

    I see you dodged much of what I posted, and obviously didn’t actually read the contents of the links that I also posted.
    No surprise from someone who Believes without being able to present proof for that Religious Cult Belief.

    But do tell, why you believe in the alleged ‘gas chambers’?
    Tell us how these alleged, but impossible, ‘gas chambers’ are supposed too have worked.

    recommended: The alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process reviewed and demolished here.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11143&p=83723&hilit=model+asmarques#p83723

    Then tell us why the claimed enormous human remains for an alleged 11,000,000 that are alleged to be in known locations are in fact not there. We await.

    see Pfannenstiel & thoughts about him debunked here: Letters, By Robert Faurisson , Miroslav : https://codoh.com/library/document/3527/?lang=en

    Again, there simply could not have been any credible ‘witnesses to gas chambers’ since the alleged ‘gas chambers’ could NOT have functioned as alleged. No doubt for you though, ‘witnesses to witchcraft’ are proof of witchcraft.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  2201. Wally says:

    Look what’s coming next about the “anti-semite”, George Patton:

    American Pravda: Was General Patton Assassinated?, by Ron Unz, September 22, 2018: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/09/ron-unz/american-pravda-was-general-patton-assassinated/

    http://www.codoh.com

  2202. @FKA Max

    FKA Max:

    This is a compelling argument that the proper death toll is 4.5 million, not 6 million. It’s too bad sound arguments like this get lost amidst the “it never happened” troglodytes. Unz’s article would be a lot more interesting and credible if it were simply about these demographic figures.

    I don’t think that the adjustment to 4.5 requires a total rethinking of the 20th century. As a cultural conservative, I’ve never had any problem conciliating the fact that the Holocaust happened with the fact that liberal internationalism has been a worldwide disaster, or the idea that Germans ought to be proud of German civilization.

  2203. phil says:
    @Wally

    On the contrary, I looked at the articles before I replied to you. I just told you of their content as it pertains to the witness. You have not mentioned the specific content of any of the articles that contradicts the witness.

    I also made a point of telling you that I am not a Holocaustian, and I am put off by Shoah Business. For me to cite Paul Rassinier and then for you to call me a cult believer in the Holocaust is ridiculous. I am agnostic about how many people were killed in the Reinhardt camps.

    I did not at all refer to Auschwitz or Zyklon B so why your refer to Germar Rudolf’s work is beyond me.

  2204. j2 says:
    @Ben Franklin

    “This is a compelling argument that the proper death toll is 4.5 million, not 6 million.”

    This is the figure that comes from Jewish population estimates and censuses. It can also be calculated directly from survivors. However, it may require a correction because the population estimates for both pre-war and post-war populations of the Soviet Union are highly uncertain.

    The total for the Soviet Union and the three Baltic states in 1939 AJY is 2.8 million with the explanation that the estimate is very uncertain.
    1) We can be rather confident that the Ashkenazi Jewish population grew for a long time 1.5% annually, from 1000 to 1900. It is also rather sure that in 1850 there were 6 million Jews in the word, half of them Ashkenazi. Rate 1.5% in a year doubles the population in 50 years. Thus, in 1900 there should have been 6 million Ashkenazi. This is quite correct, 5 million in Russia, 1 million elsewhere. In 1950, without the Holocaust, there should have been 12 million Ashkenazi. Non-Ashkenazi Jewis population stayed in 3 million all the time. There should have been 15 million Jews in 1950, but there was 11.2 million. The gap is explained by the holocaust. 6 million Ashkenazi in 1900 grew to 10.7 million in 1939. How many were in the Soviet Union and the three Baltic countries? There were 3.2 million in Poland, 0.6 million in Romania and 2.2 million in other European countries excluding the Soviet Union and the Baltic countries (0.4 million in non-occupied and 1.8 million in occupied by Nazis), this is 6 million together. There is left 4.7 million for the USA and the Soviet Union+Baltic. The USA Jewish population in 1939 was about 4.7 million. The Jewish population of the Soviet Union and the three Baltic states cannot have been very high. 2.8 million must be an overestimation. The birth rate could have been a bit over 1.5%, but 2.8 million must be too much.
    2) The growth of the USA Jewish population with the natural population growth of 1.49% and official immigration figures indicates that there came about 1 million more Jews to the USA between 1921 and 1939 than is in the immigration figures.
    Because of 1) and 2) I consider it almost certain that there were 1 million fewer Jews in the Soviet Union of 1941 than is given in the AJ data.

    The AJY data for 1949 gives the Soviet Union Jewish population in 1948 as 2 million. This is a round figure and can mean 2.5 million just as well. Census done in 1953 gave the Jewish population as 3 million. Vagner’s demographic calculations gave Soviet Jewish population in late 1980-ies as 4 million born to a Jewish mother. These indicate that the Jewish population in the Soviet Union in 1948 was 2.9 million, not 2 million.

    Making these corrections, the Jewish world population in 1939 was 15 million and in 1946 it was 12 million. These corrections are naturally not 100% certain, but I consider them very probable.

  2205. Wally says:
    @Ben Franklin

    What’s compelling about it? It’s pure unsubstantiated fake, invented numbers.

    Now I once again I challenge irrational Zionist Ben Franklin to tell us how this ‘4.6M Jews’ died, along with alleged ‘5M others’
    … and to show us the alleged human remains of this laughable ‘4.5M ‘along with the claimed ‘5M others’ claimed remains.
    I asked him to tell us how his scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ worked, he runs from that as well.

    Now who is are “troglodytes” here? LOL

    With no proof of ‘Nazi homicidal gas chambers’, no massive human remains that would necessarily exist, and no physical evidence by the thousands of tons that would be readily found IF the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline was factual, we are then left with desperate, unhinged Zionists.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2206. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ben Franklin

    Here another demographic document that might be of interest to you, which puts the global Jewish population at 15,371,822 in 1942, which makes more sense, in my opinion, than the probably “cooked book”, higher-revised estimates given by the World Almanac, since the Jewish fertility rate was well below-average. This would put the census difference closer to 4 million if the approx. 11.3 milllion figure is used, and well below 4 million, almost at 3 million, if the 12 million figure is used for the surviving Jewish population post-World War 2:

    Taylor, Myron Charles (1942). “Distribution of the Jews in the World”. Vatican Diplomatic Files. Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum. Retrieved March 15, 2012.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons#cite_note-roosevelt-6

    Source: http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/psf/box52/a467cg01.html Archived link: http://archive.is/GyYE

    Additional resources:

    Singer, Isidore; et al., eds. (1901–1906). “Statistics”. Jewish Encyclopedia. New York: Funk & Wagnalls Company.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons#cite_note-jenc-2

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13992-statistics Archived link: http://archive.is/Ie33O

    Over the past two hundred years or more, Jewish fertility patterns
    have been significantly different from those of the host populations
    among whom Jews lived. In a recent state of the art paper, Livi-Bacci
    (1986) includes the Jews among the “Social-Group Forerunners of
    Fertility Control In Europe”. By the first quarter of the eighteenth
    century the Jews of Livorno experience a level of fertility which their
    Catholic neighbors would not reach until the middle of the nineteenth
    century. In various regions and cities of Germany, in Prague, even in
    doggedly traditional Poland and Tsarist Russia, Jewish fertility was as
    lower than that of gentiles and began its decline earlier than did that of
    gentiles. The fertility of Jews resembled that of the aristocracy in Italy
    and of the officer corps in Germany. In the United States, as Jews
    assimilate or acculturate they do not take on the fertility patterns of
    white gentile Americans. On the contrary, the more like Americans they
    seem to in be terms of language, dress, food, etc., the less like gentile
    Americans they seem to be in terms of fertility behavior. In this, as in
    other areas, American Jews do not assimilate to America, but rather to
    some futuristic America which is peculiarly theirs. – research.policyarchive.org/10027.pdf

    Patterns of American Jewish Fertility

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/2061103?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    Forerunners of the Fertility Transition: Jews in Bohemia from the Enlightenment until the Interwar Times

    http://paa2013.princeton.edu/papers/132328

    {In 1930 married Jewish women had an average of 1.7 children compared to 2.5 in the total population. Similarly low fertility was generally observed among those social and occupational groups to which most Jews themselves belonged, in particular white-collar workers in industry, trade, and finance, self-employed in the services sector, and individuals in the free professions.}

  2207. Wally says:
    @phil

    Wrong, the Industry is quite certain of the ranges they claim were murdered.

    I suggest you read the nonsense from Zionist controlled Wikipedia, the criminals at the ADL, & the liars from the US ‘holocaust museum’ website, just to name a few.

    It’s not what I say, but the what THEY say. Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd ‘holocaust’ claims are the message.

    For you or anyone else to claim that ‘6 million of Jews & 5 million others’ were murdered puts the onus on you to prove it.
    After all, it’s claimed by absurdly titled “holocaust historians” that millions of Jews & ‘others’ went to allegedly known mass graves, which do not exist
    .
    We know from Spielberg alone that so called “survivor$” ended up in least SIXTY different countries. See my many comments above about your desperate ‘where did they go’ canard. It’s not my responsibility to tell you where every Jew ended up after the war when you cannot prove they are missing.

    It’s you and those like you who are copping out. I remind you of basic logic, the burden of proof:
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  2208. j2 says:
    @phil

    “Since the 1943 loot seized by the Nazis was about the same amount as the 1942 loot, it is common to double Korherr’s number to estimate the camp total for 1942 and 1943 combined–thus, the 2.5 million figure. Am I wrong?”

    Yes, you are wrong. It is shown by a simple calculation of the number of Jews who could have been transported to Operation Reinhardt camps. Divide Poland by the 1939 border to West and East Poland and 200,000 Jews escaped to the east, finally to Siberia. This leaves 1.84 million Jews to West Poland and 1.35 million Jews to the Soviet Union of 1941, assuming the Polish population was 3.25 million. 1.22 million were transported by Nazis from all other countries excluding Romania, Poland and the Soviet Union of 1941. Transports from East to West over the 1939 border of Polish border to Baltic countries amount to netto 60,000 transported to West Poland including Operation Reinhardt camps. That means that there were 3.1 million Jews in the West and Western Poland who could have ended to Operation Reinhardt camps.

    Next subtract survivors and dead: 410,000 Jews survived in camps in the West, 80,000 Jews of Western Poland managed to hide, 167,000 Jews died in ghettos and labor camps in Poland (see
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/11/18/lets-take-some-example-conspiracy-theory/
    for the list of labor camps and ghettos)
    33,000 died in Theresienstadt, about 300,000 died in camps in Germany and Austria, see the link, about 50,000 died in German attack of 1939 and terror after it, 7000 died in Warsaw ghetto uprisal, 59,000 died in Majdanek minimum, 150,000 were taken to Chelmno. Together 1.26 million. Subtract 3.1-1.26=1.84. There are left Auschwitz and Operation Reinhardt camps. So, you say that it is common for Holocaust researchers to suggest that 2.5 million were sent to Operation Reinhardt camps, meaning that to Auschwitz was sent 1.84-2.5=-0.66 million. I have noticed that some people are a bit negative, but not that much.

    So, your argument is incorrect. If Holocaust researchers commonly make this error, it does show the low level of their expertise. There are 1.84 million to divide between Operation Reinhardt camps and Auschwitz. It is commonly, and justifiably, stated that about 1.5 million were sent to Operation Reinhardt camps. There are estimates of people sent to the three camps and they come to this figure.

    About the loot, notice that Rudolf Hoess writes in the Annex of his memoirs that Action Reinhardt meant looting done in Auschwitz, not in the east border. This means that the loot from 1942 may include the loot from Auschwitz. Though 1.27 million were sent to Operation Reinhardt camps in 1942 and only 0.2 million in 1943, the loot could be the same if we have to count in the loot in Auschwitz. There may be other reasons, such as that the Jews in 1942 had already been looted in Auschwitz, while those in 1943 came from Warsaw ghetto with lots of possessions.

    Notice that if 1.45 million were sent to Operation Reinhardt camps, then the upper bound for Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 1.84-1.45=400,000. This upper bound shows very clearly that the official storyline of 1-1.5 million Jews being killed in Auschwitz is definitely wrong. I think the actual number of Jewish deaths in Auschwitz is 60,000. The upper bound is explained by 200,000 Hungarian Jews left to Auschwitz to wait for Soviets, as Eichmann told was done, and a small reduction of the number of Jews in Poland in 1939 from 3.25 to 3.1 million.

    “Do not the numbers sent to the DP camps include Polish and Baltic Jews who had been deported eastward by Stalin before the Germans invaded?”

    No. I explain it to you:

    There were 250,000 Jews in the DP-camps in 1946 and 138,000 immigrated legally to Palestine from the DP-camps. There should have stayed 112,000 Jews, but there came more Jews to DP-camps from Eastern Europe after 1946.

    How many more? Newly independent Israel opened doors in 1948 and took from Europe 0.338 million Jews during 1948-53. They came from DP-camps. Of these 0.338 million, 0.025 million were from Western Europe and the rest from Eastern Europe. Additionally the USA took first 80,000 Jews from DP camps and later 57,000. Thus, 137,000 Jews from DP-camps immigrated to the USA after 1948. Canada and South-Africa took additionally 20,000 Jews from DP-camps after 1948. So, there was supposed to be 112,000 Jews in DP-camps but after 1948 from DP-camps immigrated 338,000+137,000+20,000=495,000 Jews. That means that 383,000 Jews came to DP-camps from Eastern Europe after 1946.

    It is partially known where they came from. The largest groups that immigrated 1948-53 from Europe to Israel were from Poland (104,000) and from Romania (123,000). The origin of 30,000 is not known. Very few came from the Soviet Union. Let us subtract the Romanian Jews as they were not under Nazis. There is left 260,000.

    Israel immigration data says that very few were from the Soviet Union. That must mean the Soviet Union of 1946. It included East Poland and the Baltic states. Thus, 260,000 were survivors from West Poland or Western and Central Europe.

    Notice that only 300,000 Polish Jews are known in the West to have survived. This includes 80,000 Jews who were hiding in West Poland, some part of the 410,000 found alive from camps in the West, and 104,000 who came to the DP-camps. That is together 300,000. All. It leaves 156,000 other survivors. The Jews of the Baltic states were certainly not allowed to escape to the West as those countries were attached to the Soviet Union. The conclusion is that:
    of these 260,000 104,000 were Jews of West Poland and 156,000 were Jews of Western countries. The only possible way a so large number could have been moved to the Soviet Union of 1946 is through Operation Reinhardt camps.

    • Replies: @phil
  2209. Oh Ron! That was stellar. A very thorough and impressive treatment of the subject. As a relative nobody myself who has gradually come to the same realisations and espoused them publically for some years now and ‘experienced’ the consequences which would boggle the minds of any rational person unused to it and doubtless be called lies, I can only salute the courage that took for you to write.

    No matter how reasonable and balanced you try to be, as the resulting firestorm shows you never had a chance of it being treated fairly or dealt with honestly by the usual suspects. I do however agree with your conclusions too so time is on our side. I was once a Zionist and even priesthood holder in a very Zionist Christian denomination. Today I’m utterly impervious to being called anti-Semite or Holocaust Denier (for when anti-Semite slur is not enough) and I converted to Islam some years ago too, as a consequence of examining their nonsense on 9/11. Blowback of a different kind.

    As I warned the lunatics who turned on me overnight and began by labelling me anti-Semite and Holocaust denier the first time I innocently questioned aspects of Middle Eastern history and then the dynamics of 9/11…the problem you face is that you are defending a lie and discovery of truth is a one way process. You will only ever lose adherents to your false dogma.

  2210. The reason the pushback has not been more hysterical? Not that you don’t have the expected smattering of hasbara agents and Holocaustianists infesting the comments but there’s been surprisingly little pushback against you by the usual defenders of the industry given I’d even heard rumours of this article before finding it now a month after it was written. Normally it would have been their smear campaign which led me here…. I think they have gotten a little smarter realising they’ve passed the point of diminishing returns. If they’d attacked you, I and many others would have found this article before now.

  2211. j2 says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Now I think I have a pretty good notion of why there’s been such enormous silence. But I’m curious what theories others might have formed.”

    The first reaction is always to ignore. If that does not work, it is to ridicule. If that does not work, then make many crazy theories of the same type, debunk some of them and declare that all have been debunked, but the crazies make so many theories that you simply have no time to debunk them all, so you refuse to read any of them. You have some more important work to do. They do this all the time with proof attempts of open scientific problems. Do not expect that they would discuss your theory when they know their theory is clearly false.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2212. @Ron Unz

    In quite another discussion I once published a list of my books related to the persecutions of the jews during, and prior to, WII, persections that nobody denies, the list specified some forty books.
    So I think I have a pretty good notion of what happened, why it happened.

    Of course unsolved issues remain, the asserted deportation of some 400.000 Hungarian jews in just two months, July and August 1944.
    Here facts are so contradictory that I really have no idea what happened.
    There also is some uncertainty about the Einsatz Kommando’s, did they exist, or is it a complete fairy tale ?
    I really do not know.

    Were people killed in gas chambers, highly unlikely, but no certainty that it did not happen.
    Very difficult to prove that something did not or does not exist, it is as with aliens visiting us.
    I’m still in doubt about Rosswell.

    Anyhow, when Elie Wiesel had written his first book he had great difficulty in getting it published, if it is in the introduction, or somewhere else, do not remember, but a rabbi is supposed to have said ‘cannot we leave all this behind us ?’.
    Well, obviously not.

    In the sixties the holocaust began to be promoted.
    Why, w’ll never know.
    But, deliberately or not, jewry found out how beneficial the holocaust was to them.
    All Israel’s crimes were nothing compared to the holocaust, Germany could be made to pay until today, even giving one of the Samsom option submarines giving for free to Israel.
    At the same time, jews in permanent fear, as Katz writes ‘can it happen again ?’.
    An ADF employee stated ‘any slight against jewry can lead to a new holocaust’.

    Today in Europe, any criticism of jews is antisemitism, and, as we all know, then the gas chambers are built.
    It even supports the EU, nationalism must lead to gas chambers.
    The holocaust even may destroy all European cultures, Merkel’s mass immigration may be based on the idea that the perpetrators of the holocaust must be changed through new blood.

    Poland is the next target for holocaust reparations payments, now that the country begins to have some prosperity.

    On top of everything, what would happen if the world changes thinking, far less than six million jews died, nobody, or hardly anybody, in gas chambers.
    It even gets worse if it is accepted that people died in the the camps not by German intentions, but by a criminal camp self management, as even Poliakov describes for the Warsaw ghetto.
    So, there is no way out, whatever the truth, the mainstream holocaust story must remain at all costs.

  2213. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Now I think I have a pretty good notion of why there’s been such enormous silence. But I’m curious what theories others might have formed

    Probably the most important article you’ll read. And hopefully re-read and re-re-read and re-re-re-read.

    http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/20/treat-the-prodrome/

  2214. j2 says:
    @Ben Franklin

    Ben Franklin wrote:
    „This is a compelling argument that the proper death toll is 4.5 million, not 6 million. It’s too bad sound arguments like this get lost amidst the “it never happened” troglodytes. Unz’s article would be a lot more interesting and credible if it were simply about these demographic figures.”

    I fully agree, but there are some disinformation agents on this thread, like one Ben Franklin. See what he wrote:
    „The conventional history says that 17 million jews existed in the world before the Holocaust (based on census figures), and 11 million existed after (ditto). If denialists have a case, they ought to be able to show that this demographic collapse never took place. If they don’t have a case, then I’d expect a lot of long-winded armwaving about whether bones can be converted to smoke, whether oven doors can be made of wood or not, etc. Denialists follow the latter pattern.”

    Naturally, Ben Franklin, pulled the 17 million from his brainwashed hat and claimed it is consensus, though I just had asked him to get from the web the AJ yearbooks before the war where the Jewish figure is stated. I also mentioned and wrote in the post I asked you to read (which you did not) that in the AJ 1948-49 yearbook the population before the war suddenly jumped one million because AJ ignored all emigration out of Europe in order to get a death toll close to 6 million. But Ben Franklin is lazy, as are all disinformation agents.

    While not reading the demographic calculations that I gave and he had asked for, this Ben Franklin had the nerve to write:
    „After much arm-waving, you finally got to your core thesis,”
    well, trolling, trolling, that’s what disinformation agents do as they are too lazy to read or cannot respond.

    Then this same Ben Franklin wrote:
    „Yet what I’ve noticed about denialists/revisionists is they don’t like to talk about census numbers. They like to armwave about Lipstadt’s character, the unfairness of European free speech laws, tests of the soil at Auschwitz, etc. Yawn. Did 6 million disappear or not? If not, show me the census numbers. If there’s a “there” to this topic, then the denial/revisionists ought to be producing tight, efficient, 5-paragraph reports about census data — not sprawling 17,000 word exercises in armwaving and water-muddying.”

    Clearly, Ben Franklin did not read the comments and posts I have written as they are all about demographics based on census figures as much as they can be. Disinformation agents and H-trolls in Unz are the arm-wavers knowing nothing of nothing.

    Ben Franklin still wrote:
    „When people have evidence on their side, they tend to make simple, clear, efficient arguments. When people don’t make simple, clear, efficient arguments, it’s a strong indication that they don’t have evidence on their side.”

    Yet he refuses to read the clear and efficient arguments I gave him. And still Ben Franklin tries to manipulate with disinformation:

    „I don’t think that the adjustment to 4.5 requires a total rethinking of the 20th century.”

    I do not know, depends on how you think now. The arguments are like this, all by census data:
    1) Divide Poland by 1939 border to West and East Poland and see how many could be transported to Auschwitz, it is 3.1 million. Then subtract survivors, deaths and those sent to Operation Reinhardt. The Auschwitz death toll is maximally 400,000. Elaborate this argument and you see that no unregistered Jews were gasses in Auschwitz though some were killed by Action 14f13.
    2) Calculate how many came to DP camps between 1946-48. From this conclude that Operation Reinhardt camps did not exterminate all Jews sent there. Some were killed.
    3) Calculate from Jewish population growth os 1.5% yearly or a bit more and US Jewish population data that the Soviet Jewish population is given 1 million too high.
    4) From Soviet census of 1953 deduce that Soviet Jewish population in 1948 is given 900,000 too low.
    5) From these deduce that Einsatzgruppen killed only c. 400,000, the rest died in camps on both sides, or in the war. In Soviet union stayed some 700,000 Western and West Jews.
    6) Most importantly, conclude that the goal of transporting Jews to the east was the creation of Israel. Nazis caused the death of 2.6 million Jews because Jewish Freemasons wanted to create Israel and Jews did not want to move there. Freemasons created Nazis to do this task. Masons also created Zionism.
    7) ADL, the organization that strongest supports the Holocaust story, was created by these Jewish Freemasons. They caused great suffering to Jews and will cause it in the future unless you stop believing them and believing in the Holocaust official story.

  2215. @j2

    Ignoring indeed is a good strategy.
    It was used in the thirties against father Coughlin, shortly after WWII against Charles A Beard, a little later against Harry Elmer Barnes.
    But not just in the USA, Tony Blair refused to comment on a book about Rudolf Hess, the German MSM media ignore(d) Udo Ulfkotte (he died in the meantime), Schultze Rhonoff and Sarrazin.
    Nevertheless, all the mentioned books in Europe became best sellers.
    On the other hand, sowing distrust about a book sometimes also is effective, the Dutch journalist Peter Edel wrote a book about how Israel came into existance, he lost his existance in the Netherlands.
    But it backfired, he had and has a Turkish girl friend, they moved to Istanbul, the book was translated into the turkish, and became a best seller there.

  2216. JackOH says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, I don’t have a clue how the ADL, World Jewish Congress, and other similar organizations think. My “stay safe” admonition was based on the idea that provocative writing sometimes attracts nut jobs.

    What’s remarkable, to me at least, is the fairly large swath of comments that are disinterested, measured criticism of the conventional Holocaust narrative without a hint of anti-Jewish animus.

  2217. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ben Franklin

    What is the world population of Jews now? What has been their procreation rate in the last 70 years?
    Of course a higher number before the war facilitates the number of victims. From 17 Mill. down to 15Mill is 2 million right there.

    I know Rassinier has done analytical work on the subject and his subject is statistics.

    He was French and a Socialist. He did not have a friendly bone towards Germany and Nazis.

    He helped Jews get fake passports and escape to Switzerland before he was caught and spent the rest of the war at Buchenwald and Dora.
    It was because of blatant lies he encountered after the war, lies that he personally knew to be lies, that he even turned to the subject of investigating .

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2218. phil says:
    @j2

    I see what you have tried to do and I admire your efforts. I wish that more people would devote themselves to this kind of work, and I would encourage you to try to publish your findings (beyond what you have already done). At this point it is impossible for me to follow all the steps you have taken and to check each one. I am sympathetic to what you have done, but have saved your remarks for further study. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2219. phil says:
    @Wally

    I do not find your attitude to be very scholarly. It is quite legitimate to ask where survivors ended up if they were not killed in the camps. In these blog comments, j2 has taken an approach to answering the question. I cannot vouch for his answer, but I appreciate his efforts.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  2220. Wally says:
    @phil

    Leave it to a Zionist to dodge logic. YOU make the accusations, YOU must provide the proof
    the burden of proof:
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    I have shown that Jews ended up in at least SIXTY different countries, but you cannot prove that 6M Jews are missing, you cannot show us that the equally impossible ‘5M others’ are missing either.
    It is you who is not very “scholarly”.

    J2, as I have shown repeatedly, is clueless, he pulls his nonsense out of thin air and compounds that stupidity with ‘guesses, ‘estimates’, ‘assumptions’, maybes, ‘possibles’, etc.

    – Now, it is up to you and those like you to explain to us how the laughable & scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ worked. Of course you will dodge that again.

    – It is up to you to show us the claimed human remains for the grand total of ‘11,000,000’(equal to the population of London) that are alleged to be in known locations. Of course you will dodge that again.

    The absurd ‘holocaust’ fiction has been the tool that previously silenced all debate.
    However, it’s effectiveness is waning, people are learning about its complete impossibility, people are realizing that its propaganda and theater held together only by force & coercion.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  2221. Wally says:
    @phil

    Phil says he ‘sees what j2 has tried to do’, but then he says he can’t follow along. LOL

    No kidding, j2 can’t even follow his own fictitious numbers which he calculates with lots of: ‘guesses, ‘estimates’, ‘assumptions’, maybes, ‘possibles’, etc. LOL

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  2222. @phil

    The survivors were concentrated in camps in S Germany, in order to move them to Palestine:
    J.G. Burg, Schuld und Schicksal, Europas Juden zwischen Henkern und Heuchlern, München, 1962
    Burg tried to set up a business there, it was discouraged.
    He was transported to Palestine, where nobody took any care of him.
    With great trouble he managed to return to Germany, his wife and child came later.

    Hjalmar Schacht, ´76 Jahre meines Lebens’, Bad Wörishofen, 1953
    Having advised some eastern government Schacht flew back to Germany, but unexpectedly his plane made a stop over in Tel Aviv.
    He was not allowed to remain in the plane.
    Waiters of German origin recognised him, and told him how they regretted having gone to Israel.

    You find a similar story with Arthur Koestler, alas do not remember in which book, but he succeeded in escaping.
    Arthur Koestler, ‘Arrow in the blue, an autobiography’, London 1954
    Arthur Koestler, ‘The invisible writing, an autobiography’, London 1954

  2223. @Anonymous

    And was thrown out of the French socialist party.
    His book explains the camp deaths, hunger, and blames the autonomous camp management, often socialists and communists.

  2224. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ben Franklin

    By the way, the census figures I just shared with you “This would put the census difference closer to 4 million if the approx. 11.3 milllion figure is used, and well below 4 million, almost at 3 million, if the 12 million figure is used for the surviving Jewish population post-World War 2” – https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2532755 correspond well with the victim figures in the question and challenge I posed to anti-revisionists:

    Why has Yad Vashem after over 60 years and tens or even hundreds of millions of Dollars and hours invested into their investigations and research only managed to verify 3.5 million, or even fewer https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2494896 , names and identities of Holocaust victims?

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/#comment-2521542

    All kinds of data points make a Holocaust victim/death toll of under 4 million Jews look highly probable.

    Source: Source: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/70-years-later-were-still-trying-to-learn-who-died-in-the-holocaust/ Archived link: http://archive.is/PGxXP

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  2225. phil says:
    @Wally

    It is one thing to understand somebody’s method, and another thing to follow each step of its execution. I am checking on his sources, which you have not even tried to do. All you can do is insult anyone who does not adhere to the party line.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2226. phil says:
    @Wally

    Now you’ve become completely unhinged, referring to me as a Zionist. I have no connection or loyalty to Israel whatsover. I began by citing Paul Rassinier, the father of Holocaust Revisionism according to Robert Faurisson. Rassinier made a tremendous effort to debunk the notion that the Nazis had a policy of mass gassings to exterminate Jews. However, he encountered ONE witness to a single gassing whose credibility he felt he had to accept.

    In the presence of uncertainty about statistics, scholars often resort to confidence intervals to try to make headway. j2 cannot be dismissed with terms such as “hand-waiving”.

    You speak of “burden of proof” as if you don’t have to do anything to try to resolve issues of great scholarly interest. And so you haven’t.

    You can play a role as an enforcer of doctrine and recycle other people’s work, but that’s about it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2227. Wally says:
    @phil

    IOW, you’re still dodging my challenges:

    – Tell us how the scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    – Show us the human remain that are said to be in known locations for the claimed ‘6M Jews & 5M others. That claimed 11,000,ooo is equal to the population of London.
    I have posted numerous examples that debunk absurd & fraudulent numbers. You ignore those too.
    No matter though, any claimed numbers of millions of Jews are necessarily fraudulent.
    No vast human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’.

    Phil and his “Holocau$t Industry” in court:

    ‘Please your honor, there really are human remains of millions upon millions who were murdered & buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    Readers, it’s not complicated.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  2228. Wally says:
    @phil

    But you behave like a rabid Zionist. That’s on you, not me.

    Indeed you cited Rassinier only because you absurdly felt he represented proof of the impossible gas chambers. All the while you have completely ignored the scientific work of, say, Germar Rudolf who has utterly exposed the scientific impossibility of your coveted ‘gas chambers’.

    I have already shot down J2, ignore it if you wish. That too is on you.

    Indeed, the burden of proof is on you, the accuser. No weasel words can change that.

    I’ve done plenty that exposes the utter fraudulence of the impossible ‘holocaust’ narrative. You don’t like it, but I don’t care one bit. LOL

    Speaking like a Zionist again, you say that I am an “enforcer”. LOL ! As if those who persecute and demand arrests of those who engage in free speech about the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ are not “enforcers”. Get out of here, you’re the “unhinged” one.

    I have and will stand my ground. And anyone who disagrees with what I post is more than welcome to rebuttal. But because I know what I’m talking about and back it up, those rebuttals, like yours, are quickly shattered.

    You don’t like it, and I don’t care. I have the truth & you do not. You & those like you will continue to be routed in debates with me.
    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @phil
  2229. Wally says:
    @FKA Max

    More garbage in. garbage out.
    The claimed ‘murdered’ numbers have no basis in fact.

    All these alleged millions, yet the allegedly known huge mass graves where they supposedly went to do not exit. That is absolute proof that the numbers are fake.

    Yad Vashem is a Jew / Zionist special interest political organization. They profit immensely from the scam. Truth is the last thing they provide.
    said:
    “Why has Yad Vashem after over 60 years and tens or even hundreds of millions of Dollars and hours invested into their investigations and research only managed to verify 3.5 million”

    LOL.
    “Verify? Verify what?
    They have no proof that 3.5 million Jews were murdered. None.
    Anyone, go ahead and ask for the proof and see what you get.

    And always remember, Jews have been pushing their fake ‘6M’ since at least 1823
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  2230. j2 says:
    @Wally

    “All these alleged millions, yet the allegedly known huge mass graves where they supposedly went to do not exit. That is absolute proof that the numbers are fake.”

    If you are not an H-troll acting under false flag of a crazy denialist, try to understand the following.

    There is the official story and it proposes some death tolls in some sites. Each number can be questioned, provided that you make a study of each number. Against you study there are the studies made by main stream Holocaust researchers. Thus, by making a new study or by proposing a different death toll in a site you do not solve anything. It will be a disputed question, where one side of the dispute is respected by the academia and the other side is discarded as a crackpot denier.

    This is not the way to proceed. You have to find arguments that are so strong and so obvious that they will be accepted. As was the case with Ben Franklin claiming that there is a consensus that the prewar Jewish world population was 17 million and past war 11 million, when the real Jewish figures are 15.7 and 11,2 million. He had to admit it. The whole Holocaust narrative can be shown false by similar arguments that cannot be denied. Just by simple addition and subtraction from the numbers they themselves accept and propose.

    In order to do this kind of undeniable arguments, I take the figures that main stream researchers propose and derive an contradiction to main pillars of their story by calculations using their figures. The numbers proposed by main stream Holocaust researchers may be wrong, but this stage is not the time and place to go deeply into the numbers. Later, when it is beyond any question clear that the official story is false, then some diligent researcher (not me) can look deeper into each number and find more correct ones.

    As an example, according to main stream Holocaust researchers 58,000 Jews were shot in Yugoslavia. Whether this figure is correct or not is irrelevant in the first stage of the proof. I accept it in the calculations. The figure 58,000 dead is too small to change anything in the argument I want to make, for instance that the total death toll from AJ Yearbooks is 4.5 million, not 5-6 million, and I avoid discussing this figure by accepting their figure.

    Is this figure correct? Can I demonstrate that it is correct? Can I show the mass graves?
    I cannot demonstrate that it is correct, I do not need to do so as I take the figure that the main stream uses in order to show a major error in their argument. Indeed, I cannot find the 58,000 shot Jews:

    Some Jewish deaths in Yugoslavia can be found from
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_executions_and_massacres_in_Yugoslavia_during_World_War_II

    Jasenovac copncentration camp, between 12,000 and 20,000 Jews, Croatian Ustaše
    Jadovno concentration camp, 1,998 Jews, Croatian Ustaše
    Novo Sad raid and Bečej raid, 1,250 Jews, drowned in Danube, Hungarian army
    Kragujevac massacre, Jews unknown number, maybe 500, German army

    (Axis powers invaded Yugoslavia. Axis powers established a puppet state the Independent State of Croatia, supported by the Croatian fascist movement Ustaše. Thus, deaths caused by ustashe are to be counted as deaths by German allies.)

    From the following link I found some more Jewish deaths in Yugoslavia:
    http://www.sciencespo.fr/mass-violence-war-massacre-resistance/en/document/massacres-dismembered-yugoslavia-1941-1945

    1941 9-30 October. Shootings by German forces, male Jewish victims 5,000
    March: Zemum concentration camp: Jewish deaths 7-11,000

    Summing these all gives roughly:
    Germans 16,000
    Ustase 16,000
    Hungary 1,000
    Total 33,000
    It is not 58,000, but using 33,000 or 58,000 makes absolutely no difference to the total death toll.

    Thus, where are the mass graves that you always demand? Look for the concentration camps and massacre sites mentioned here for Yugoslavia and check if the death tolls are correct.

    For Poland I can give one suggestion. I once visited the old Jewish cemetery in Lodz. Germans had pushed grave stones aside with a tractor. I think that they did so in order to have a place for a mass grave and bodies from the Lodz ghetto were buried to a mass grave. Later the bodies may have been burned, I do not know, but the cleared area suggests a mass grave. 43,800 died in Lodz ghetto, most from diseases. They had to be buried somewhere or cremated.

    That is, many people died. They were either buried or cremated. That you do not find the remains does not show that people did not die. You do not find the remains of most people who have died in Europe in the last 50,000 years. Their remains just disappeared in time. If not, the ground would be full of bones.

    But what for do you want the places of the mass graves? Most sites have not been excavated, we cannot know how many there were. In most concentration camps bodies were cremated. It is difficult to calculate how many bodies were cremated. Lack of bodies does not show there were no bodies.

    You ask for something that cannot be done and that is not at all needed in showing that the Holocaust official story is false. You must be an H-troll in sheep’s clothes, or acting without thinking.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Wally
    , @Ben Franklin
  2231. @FKA Max

    A neutral description would be ‘jews who died in WWII’.
    The number of Germans who died in and because of WWII is over ten million.
    Total number of WWII deaths, no reliable number, but sixty million or more.
    The number one question is, ‘who wanted WWII ?’.
    There is the jewish declaration of war on Hitler Germany of 1933.
    There is Frankfurter, who wrote LendLease.
    There is Sol Bloom: ‘the great accomplishment of Roosevelt was that he slowly prepared the USA people for war’.

  2232. j2 says:
    @j2

    So, here is my final solution to the demographical problem of the Final Solution

    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/24/my-final-solution-of-the-final-solution/

    For my part this problem is solved and not any more interesting. Thanks to all.

  2233. phil says:
    @Wally

    Absurd. I am not referring to an alleged policy of hundreds or thousands of mass gassings. I am referring to a single gassing alleged by one witness.

  2234. Wally says:
    @j2

    LENGTHY, but worth it, select ‘more’ if necessary.

    Complete nonsense from another panicked, desperate Zionist. All we see are laughable, meandering weasel words. His numbers are pure contrived fantasy. And note he desperately cites the utterly discredited Zionist controlled Wikipedia. LOL
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: https://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    As usual j2 lists other numbers for which no proof exists. He is epitome of someone who tries the juvenile ‘garbage in, garbage out’. He references completely debunked numbers and claims them as proof. LOL

    [MORE]

    The fact is that:
    We have alleged enormous crimes with alleged enormous physical evidence (claimed immense mass graves in allegedly known locations). Logic and rules of jurisprudence say that this alleged physical evidence must be produced. Those claimed millions upon millions of human remains do not exist.
    quick examples:
    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of course: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

    The Treblinka Archaeological Hoax: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12019

    This what a team found at Sobibor, where and alleged 250,000 Jews are claimed to be buried.

    What 4-5 skeletons? .. not 250,000 from who knows when? Who died of who knows what? And we don’t even know if they are Jews. LOL all around.
    more here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10356

    Lying j2 said
    “But what for do you want the places of the mass graves? Most sites have not been excavated, we cannot know how many there were. In most concentration camps bodies were cremated. It is difficult to calculate how many bodies were cremated. Lack of bodies does not show there were no bodies.”
    So then is that why they actually went looking for the remains and did NOT find them?
    Desperate j2 is as usual laughably contradicted by the very narrative he attempts to defend. LOL
    and then:

    “The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.”
    – Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87

    Oops!! A preposterous tale to be sure, but that is what they say.
    So j2 must show us these alleged human remains that are part of the official narrative. He cannot.
    No massive human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’. Simple as that.
    And as Ron Unz says: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?” LOL

    Once again: We’re talking about an alleged ƌM Jews & 5M others’ … that’s an alleged 11,000,000. Repeat, eleven million, equal to the population of London.
    But note that there is not a single verifiable excavated mass grave that can actually be SHOWN, not just claimed.
    Recall:
    – claimed 900,000 buried at Treblinka
    – claimed 250,000 buried at Sobibor
    – claimed 34,000 buried at Babi Yar
    – claimed 1,250,000 buried at Auschwitz
    – claimed 2,000,000 allegedly shot & buried in huge mass graves by the ‘Einsatzgruppen’
    – and bogus claims of many more
    Jews claim those enormous graves exist and claim to know exactly where those alleged enormous mass graves are.
    See my comment #1387 for much more.

    Hey! Don’t blame us. Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.
    Only liars demand censorship.

    The ƌM Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2235. phil says:
    @Wally

    You do not seem to understand. I am properly classified as a Holocaust Revisionist, but I do not try to ignore what can be called inconvenient pieces of evidence. I do not accept the standard Auschwitz narrative, and I respect the work of Germar Rudolf. Again, I am referring to a single gassing alleged to have occurred at Belzec. You have wrongfully leaped to the conclusion that, first, I am “cult” believer in the Holocaust and, second, that I am a Zionist. To focus on a single gassing, while denying that hundred or thousands of others occurred, does not make me a Zionist or cult believer. I also believe in limited government, but that does not make me a socialist.

    As for j2, you have not dealt with him in a serious way. j2 can defend himself. Did you note how low is his best-guess estimate for the number of deaths at Auschwitz? On the other hand, is it not possible that the Nazis were sometimes a tad too aggressive in their practice of euthanasia at the Reinhardt camps? These are questions for serious scholarly inquiry, not doctrinaire dismissal.

    I wish you would be a little more like Thomas Kues, who took up the challenge of trying to figure out the fate of deported Jews and uncovered quite a bit of evidence of deported Jews having been sent to camps in German-occupied parts of the USSR. He did not simply say that that others have “the burden of proof” and then sit on his hands.

    My comments equally apply to the commenter “Hannover” at the CODOH website. He seems to be an intelligent guy, but in the case of far too many forums he quickly dismisses other points of view and restates the party line. Not scholarly.

    Passing laws against Holocaust Revisionism is a sign of intellectual weakness, and so is Doctrinaire Denialism.

  2236. Wally says:
    @j2

    Yawn.
    Zionist J2 doubles down with his ‘garbage in, garbage out’ which has been shot down repeatedly. His numbers are easily shown to be dishonest nonsense and Zionist misinformation.
    ex.:
    How Many Jews Died in the German Concentration Camps, By Carl O. Nordling : https://codoh.com/library/document/2344/?lang=en

    Victims: A Statistical Analysis, W. Benz and W. N. Sanning – A Comparison, By Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/930/?lang=en

    And then there is reality:
    – The alleged gassings were scientifically impossible.
    – The alleged human remains for the alleged 6M Jews & 5M others, 11,000,000*, that are claimed to be in known locations do not exist.
    No immense human remains as alleged, no ‘holocaust’

    The desperate and panicked j2 and his The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:

    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions upon millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    Only liars demand censorship.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2237. FKA Max says: • Website
    @j2

    Thanks, j2!

    I archived it for you http://archive.is/JXwTx 😉

    See you around the Unz Review

  2238. @Ben Franklin

    Ah, so that it explains it: you’re a cuckservative. Are you one of Art Deco’s sock puppets?

  2239. Christo says:
    @Anon

    Did not run the video, However IIRC , Himmler was addressing SS subordinates on the matter of “partisan” warfare and the removal of Communist /Jewish enclaves in Eastern Europe and Russia.
    These SS subordinates would have been the Einsatzgruppen , who along with local anti-Communist defense groups did kill a lot of partisans and also either exterminated or forcefully relocated many Jewish settlements/villages and ghettos. Their records put the number that those SS groups killed at
    800, 000. This figure was mostly Jewish as they composed the bulk of the partisan forces in occupied areas and also the Jewish ghettos of cities by default considered being communist and supporters of Stalin/CCCP. The 800K is what the SS themselves counted and it is from their records. The Einsatzgruppen actions and their body count , should be the factual base for any actual “Holocaust” figure to be derived or at least a firm base to start adding to. It was and is a big mistake to start at 6 million all the while counting 4 million of that 6 being killed at Auschwitz which has since been greatly reduced after the wall fell . Defending Eil Weisel’s 6 million “gospel’ will eventually invalidate the whole thing.

  2240. Wally says:
    @Christo

    [Too repetitive. Stop spamming if you want your comments published.]

  2241. Wally says:
    @Christo

    you said:
    ” Their records put the number that those SS groups killed at 800, 000.”

    Really?

    Then please show us these “records”. Authentic, actual, real German “records”.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2242. @Anonymous

    It probably sounded better in French: ‘One may ask oneself whether such mass murder was technically impossible. It was technically impossible because it didn’t happen.’

  2243. @Che Guava

    The “israeli” embassy does get involved sometimes, propping up the Anne Frank propaganda campaign, for example:
    https://globalnews.ca/news/1176396/israel-donates-300-anne-frank-books-after-others-found-vandalized-in-tokyo/

  2244. @Christo

    800K is still too high, probably 1/4 of that although it could be higher, see Reynouard and Verbeke’s analysis.

  2245. @Colin Wright

    Colin, you say “the first group of victims gassed at Auschwitz were Russian P.O.W.s.”
    As I understand it, no-one was gassed at Auschwitz. Can you provide a link?

    • Replies: @Wally
  2246. Wally says:
    @Badger Down

    The gassings as alleged were scientifically impossible.

    Colin Wright is just reciting a Zionist contrived narrative which has been thoroughly debunked, repeatedly, by many.
    Anyway, I too would like to see Colin Wright’s proof. Colin, are you there?
    Please tell us how these alleged gassings were done, please be specific. Please give us your sources also.
    It’s amazing how easy it is shoot down the ‘6M’ propaganda & religion, just ask for proof.

    recommended about the silly ‘Russians’ claim:
    From the Records of the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial, Part 8, By Germar Rudolf: https://codoh.com/library/document/1821/?lang=en
    and:
    A Tale of Two Gassings, By Matt Giwer : https://codoh.com/library/document/980/?lang=en
    massive debunking of the ‘Nazi gas chambers’ here: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=+gas+chambers

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  2247. @j2

    You’re unhinged dude. Get a grip. With people like you arguing the “muh hoax” side, I am confident that ‘6 million’ will remain the consensus for centuries to come.

  2248. Wally says:
    @Ben Franklin

    Certainly true that j2’s numbers easily debunked nonsense, but concerning your ‘ 6M confidence’:

    Is that why we see Jews like Ron Unz now heavily involved in exposing the fraud of the impossible ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’?

    Is that why http://www.codoh.com has more readers than ever before, by far.

    Is that why laws are needed to prevent free speech on the fake ‘holocaust’?

    You are so “confident”, yet you are here trying to debate informed Revisionists who are making a mockery of you and your laughable ‘holocaust’ tales.

    With “confidence” like that, who needs ‘panic’? LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

  2249. I used to believe the official holocaust story, but about 20 years ago I read that Ann Frank had not been gassed at Auschwitz. In fact she had been in the camp hospital. A hospital in a death camp? I then started to enquire further and came up with following holes in the official holocaust story:-

    Why would the Nazis transport Jews all the way to Auschwitz in Poland to kill them? Why use irritant cyanide gas (Zyklon) when people crowded into an airtight room with an unventilated heater will soon die painlessly from carbon monoxide poisoning?

    Why were there 4.3 million survivors claiming compensation from Germany? why did the Red cross only give 272,000 as the total number of deaths in ALL the camps? The Red Cross had access to the camps. Wouldn’t they have known if Jews were being gassed?

    Why were there a hospital, a pharmacy, a dentist, a theatre, an orchestra, a choir, a library and a swimming pool at Auschwitz, in a death camp? Why were there no signs on wartime aerial photographs of the trainloads of coke that would have been required to incinerate millions of bodies? Why weren’t thousands of tons of ashes and bones ever found?

    The photos of piles of bodies show emaciation typical of starvation and disease, something that would not have time occur if people were being gassed on arrival. It was Typhus, dysentery and starvation that killed these people, because by 1944 allied bombing had destroyed the infrastructure of Germany. We SHOULD be skeptical.

  2250. @j2

    Thank you for your interesting work.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2251. @John Kirby

    Yes. Also, Anne Frank was sent to Bergen-Belsen for treatment; one would think, given the allegations of Auschwitz in the canonical storyline, that she would have been sent to the “showers”. Why transport a young girl from Poland back to Germany that late in the war? Must’ve been one productive teenager.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2252. @John Kirby

    Elie Wiesel describes in his first book that at the end of 1944 his father was in an Auschwitz hospital.
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

  2253. It just now struck my eye, our country is tiny, that the map represents the Netherlands as being a country where doubting the gas chambers and the six million is possible.
    It is not.
    There is no express law protecting the mainstream holocaust story, but anyone who doubts the story in public runs the chance of being persecuted for insulting a group of people.
    But even if there is no criminal persecution, the consequences are fatal, losing one’s job, being ostracised.

  2254. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    For a thorough debunking of the acclaimed, but faked, Anne Frank ‘diary’, I recommend my comment #134 above.

    It’s just not that difficult.

    The ‘6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”
    – Ron Unz

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2255. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Perhaps you could tell us what about j2’s “work” is “interesting”.

    I find it to be nothing more than someone with an agenda starting with bogus numbers, making ‘guesses, ‘estimates’, ‘assumptions’, maybes, a lot of ‘possibles’, etc. IOW, ‘garbage in, garbage out’.
    Also, please show us where the alleged immense human remains can be seen.

    Please be specific. Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2256. @Wally

    There is doubt if a 14 year old girl wrote what is asserted she wrote.
    However, there is no doubt whatsoever that what is described is true, it may have been dramatised, but that is all.
    Do not know if the asserted betrayal by a Dutchman or -woman still is the mainstream story, recently serious doubts about this betrayal have been presented.
    As I’m not much interested, forgot about the details.
    Jews were in hiding during the war all over the Netherlands, though not in large numbers, but possibly 20.000.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2257. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    So tell us what is described, in what part, and what dates in the ‘diary’.

    And tell us in which handwriting, of the at least THREE different ones, that the descriptions are written in.

    I also see that you dodged the part about the family dealing in the illegal black market.

    You’re in over your head again, Jilles. You are the epitome of a dilettante.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2258. @Wally

    He makes a serious attempt at proper accounting of the numbers, based on the primary categories (western camps, EG shootings, Auschwitz, and the AR camps). He comes to a number somewhat higher than Sanning’s (about 2M), whose important work is part of codoh’s Holocaust Handbooks series, in case you didn’t know. As ridiculous as the official account is, it is equally ridiculous to think that nothing of consequence happened to the Jews during the war. This doesn’t mean there was an “extermination program”, but it does require an honest assessment of the numbers, something j2 has undertaken.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2259. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    j2’s sources are bullshit, nothing serious about it. Why do you ignore his bogus sources?
    Bogus sources = bogus results, aka: ‘garbage in, garbage out’.

    His claims about Einsatzgruppen shootings I have completely debunked. Why do you ignore it?
    No one said “nothing happened” to Jews. Cut the Zionist false strawman crap. But what happened to the Jews was certainly no different than Allied treatment of Japanese-Americans.

    Why do you dodge the fact that the claimed immense remains of Jews and the alleged ‘5M others’, which j2 chooses to ignore, are said to be in known locations which they are not?
    Your reference to Sanning is highly flawed and simply wrong. J2 said that the ‘Nazis killed 2.6M Jews’, Sanning says nothing like that.
    Why do you and j2 both ignore these about Sanning, which I posted earlier?
    Holocaust Victims: A Statistical Analysis, W. Benz and W. N. Sanning – A Comparison, By Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/930/?lang=en
    and:
    How Many Jews Died in the German Concentration Camps?, By Carl O. Nordling : https://codoh.com/library/document/2344/?lang=en

    J2 believes Jews were gassed en masse, do you? Is so give us your proof.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2260. @Wally

    I normally ignore stupid replies, but this time an exception: there is no doubt whatsoever that the Frank family, and a few others, do not remember exactly, were in hiding in an Amsterdam canal ‘achterhuis’, a house built behind (achter) the house with the entrance on the street.
    As they resided above an office, they could not make any sound during office hours, and not use the toilet.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2261. @Wally

    No, I do not believe the stories about gassings, and as far as I know, neither does j2; where does he claim otherwise?

    • Replies: @Wally
  2262. Eckbach says:
    @Rational

    Olah (Strong’s # 5930) a step, is the feminine active participle of alah (5927) to ascend, be high, lofty.
    A host of words are from this parent root.
    http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=hebrewlexicon&isindex=5927

  2263. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    IOW, you ignore the facts that I posted about the fake diary and the Franks.

    Indeed, conforming to the mandated narrative is your strength.

    Once again , after you posted:
    “There is doubt if a 14 year old girl wrote what is asserted she wrote.
    However, there is no doubt whatsoever that what is described is true, it may have been dramatised, but that is all.
    Do not know if the asserted betrayal by a Dutchman or -woman still is the mainstream story, recently serious doubts about this betrayal have been presented.
    As I’m not much interested, forgot about the details.
    Jews were in hiding during the war all over the Netherlands, though not in large numbers, but possibly 20.000.”

    I challenged you to:

    – Tell us what is described, in what part, and what dates in the ‘diary’.
    – If, as you said, ” there is no doubt whatsoever that what is described is true”, then tell us in which handwriting, of the at least THREE different ones, that the descriptions you think are “true” are written in.
    – And why do you dodge the part about the family dealing in the illegal black market?

    But Hey, Jilles Dykstra runs from questions about this fake, but as he says: ” there is no doubt whatsoever that what is described is true”. LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  2264. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Please pay attention.
    Gassing are falsely alleged to have been done en masses at the AR camps, even you mentioned that j2 uses the claimed numbers for the AR camps.

    Do you believe there were ‘Nazi gassings’?

    I see you dodged my other demolitions of your claims that were done in my comment #2301 above.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  2265. @Wally

    You do not seem to understand that those who knew during the war about the hiding, and provided the Franks with food, lived for a long time after the war.
    Thousands of Frank stories exist in the Netherlands.
    This particular story got world wide attention because of the diary.
    It does not matter at all if the diary is real or a fraud, for the hiding itself.
    My mother does not live any more, she could tell you a similar story from her village, in that case snow white people appeared after the Canadians had driven out the Germans.
    Last time I reply to you on this subject.

  2266. j2 says:
    @Wally

    “Gassing are falsely alleged to have been done en masses at the AR camps, even you mentioned that j2 uses the claimed numbers for the AR camps.”

    Wally, read what I have written. I will explain the logic once again.

    First: From Jewish population figures the total death toll is 4.4 million (or 4.5 million, depending on the source). Yad Vashem figures give 3.5 million missing or dead with known names and birth places. These imply that the Soviet Union and Baltic countries Jewish population was 1 million smaller in 1939 than the Jewish population figures give. These Jews had emigrated to the USA.

    Second: FKA max provided one Soviet census and one Jewish population estimate which both indicate that the Jewish population of the Soviet Union in 1946 was 2.9 million, 0.9 million larger than in the official figures. Thus, the real death toll is about 3.5-0.9=2.6 million, I get 2.5 million from my last calculation. This is a total death toll. It includes deaths in Soviet and Romanian hands and in war in Poland. It is not the number of Jews killed by Germans. It is the number of Jews who died.

    If you think the total death toll was smaller, then you either have to argue that the Jewish population of the Soviet Union and the Baltic countries in 1939 was more than 1 million smaller, or that the Soviet Jewish in 1946 was over 1 million larger. I do not see grounds for it. I have read Sanning’s book, but do not think it gives good enough grounds for it.

    Thus, the correct death toll is about 2.5 million and Yad Vashem figures give 3.5 million. What is this one million difference? We know what it is: about 200,000 Hungarian Jews are missing and all about 1.48 million Jews sent to Operation Reinhardt camps are said to be missing. Only, not all of them are missing: from DP camp data I can show that 260,000 survived and came to the West. So, 1.48+0.2-0.26=1.42 million are missing. So, they were either dead or in the Soviet Union. In the Soviet Union was 0.9 million additional Jews and about 0.1 million emigrated illegally to Palestine. The rest, 0.42 million, had to be dead.

    So, 0.42 million were dead in German hands. How did they die? I reason like this: in concentration camps of that time about 1/4-1/3 died, in ghettos about 1/10 died. So, if many were resettled, about 1/10 died, if some were taken to work, about 1/3 of them died. Then I take Goebbels diary and statement 40% used for work, 60% liquidated. 40% of 1.48 million is 590,000. Of them could have died about 1/3, so 200,000. But there died 420,000. Where did 220,000 die? Not resettled in ghettos. So, I assume 150,000 died in the Operation Reinhardt camps because then I have 70,000 who died in ghettos, which is about 10%. How did these 150,000 die in three camps? Maybe the camps has subcamps building fortifications, maybe they had eugenics centers and killed 10%. There are some mass graves, so some number of people died there.

    Put the numbers better if you can and want, but explain what happened to the Jews.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2267. @Wally

    You really don’t want to be taken seriously, do you?

  2268. Wally says:
    @j2

    So how do you think those at the AR camps were killed?

    What proof do you have that Jews are “missing”?

    Why do you ignore the alleged ‘5M others’ that the narrative claims?

    I see you ignore my information debunking your bogus sources.

    Do you or do you not believe there were ‘Nazi gas chambers’?
    Simple question.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  2269. j2 says:
    @Wally

    “So how do you think those at the AR camps were killed?”

    I estimate that 150,000 died in the three camps Sobibor, Treblinka, Belzec. I do not have sufficient evidence to conclude how they died, but you ask what I think. Think does not mean I can prove it and everybody has the right to think whatever, even differently than Wally. I think these Jews were killed for eugenic reasons in eugenic centers in the camps manned by former T4 staff. I think it was an extension of Action 14f13, which originally meant killing concentration camp prisoners not fit to work and was changed to killing only mentally ill and disabled because Germans needed work force. I assume that the work force, 40%, was already taken from 1.48 million sent to these camps and therefore the original order was followed. I assume that the following classes of prisoners were killed: mentally ill (about 2-3%), retarded (1.5%), disabled (1.5%), criminals (1%), terrorists or dangerous activists (1%), incurably ill (3%), together 10%. Nazis considered killing these people correct as they earlier had an eugenics project also for Germans. The ways of death were the same as in the T4 project, where injections and gas chambers were used according to sources. I have no way of asserting that gas chambers were not used in the Operation Reinhardt camps, I can only conclude that the number of deaths in the camps was a fraction of the official figure. I also do not have any prove that gas chambers were used in these camps. As nothing remains of the putative cas chambers of these camps, Rudolf’s arguments against gas chambers in Auschwitz are not valid here. You are free to make your guess, this was my guess.

    “What proof do you have that Jews are “missing”?”

    Missing people is a term for people whose whereabouts are not known. I used the name missing Jews of Jews, who are listed in the Yad Vashem database of missing or dead and it is not known where and when they have died. There are many such names, which proves that Jews are missing in the Yad Vashem database. If Wally knows where they are, then they are not missing in Wally’s registers, but in Yad Vashem they are currently missing. Maybe Wally could tell the Yad Vashem people where these Jews are.

    “Why do you ignore the alleged ’5M others’ that the narrative claims?”

    I do not know what 5M claim you talk about. In the Soviet time there was a claim that in Auschwitz died more non-Jews than Jews and in some instances there was the number of 5M non-Jews having died in Auschwitz. This story has long ago been changed and is not in the official narrative. I have not looked at non-Jews other than Poles and Gypsies in Auschwitz. Concerning Gypsies in Auschwitz, read my comments on the memoirs of Rudolf Hoess
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/09/21/a-brief-look-at-the-commandant-of-auschwitz-by-rudolf-hoess/
    As you never read anything I write, the comment about Gypsies is that they apparently were not killed in Krema I (which did not work in 1944) but were sent somewhere. About Poles, read
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2017/12/28/how-many-native-poles-died-in-wwii/
    As you never read anything I write, the conclusion is that 2.5 million Poles are missing. Of them 1.1 million were never born (the birth rate was below the death rate) and 1.4 million died. No gassing is needed to explain these losses.

    “I see you ignore my information debunking your bogus sources.”

    My sources for the Jewish populations are American Jewish Committee Yearbooks. My sources for deaths in concentration camps, labor camps and ghettos are web pages of those sites. My sources for the American Jewish population is American Jewish statistics and US immigration data. My sources for Soviet Union Jewish population 1946 reduction by 0.9 million are given in comments by FKA max on this thread. You have not given any information debunking my sources. On each of your comment you list some obscure links to CODOH. That site is not any more accepted than the sources I use. Only in your imagination CODOH has the status of God’s word. I prefer to avoid sites that are connected with Holocaust revisionism as such sources are considered questionable. I would in all circumstances avoid any sources connected with Wally or suggested by Wally, as Wally has absolutely no credability.

    “Do you or do you not believe there were ‘Nazi gas chambers’?
    Simple question.”

    I have calculated populations, not studied the existence of homicidal gas chambers in the concentration camps. I do not have any belief about the question. If you ask what I think could be the case, I again mention that I am no expert on this question, but will make a guess just for you:

    1) I think there probably were homicidal gas chambers in eugenics centers and that there also were eugenics centers in the three Operation Reinhardt camps. The case of gas chambers in T4 eugenics centers is that in the plans there is a thick walled room with a connected smaller room. It is claimed that some signs of gas pipes are still seen, though all equipment was removed by Germans. I am in no position to pass any judgment whether there was a gas chamber or not, but looking at CODOH discussion it seems that CODOH people do not know it either. I find no reason to deny the existence of gas chambers in eugenics centers. Carbon monoxide gas is not the worst way to die and it is cheaper than an overdose of morphine. All I can say is that at most a very small part of Jews died in gas chambers. Notice that from Auschwitz and other camps some prisoners were taken to eugenics centers to be killed under Action 14f13. They may have been gassed.
    2) I think there was a gas mask test in Natzweiler-Sturmhoff and the control group was gassed as they did not have gas masks.
    3) There is no scientific proof that Nazis did not gas people. Rudolf only showed that people were not gassed in large numbers in camps that still can be checked. People can be killed by gassing.

  2270. @j2

    BTW, the “5M others” Wally likes to toss around (even though it’s been clarified to him) is a made-up number from Jewish sources with the express intent of engendering non-Jewish support for the Holocaust cult (as fellow victims) while carefully keeping non-Jewish deaths below Jewish deaths. It was acknowledged as such (a fabrication) early last year when Trump stepped off the reservation and commemorated ALL victims of Naziism. Jewish groups became quite incensed at this and were forced to admit that the 5M never had any basis in fact and only Jews could be considered legitimate victims of the Nazis. In other words, even the official position disavows it so I’m not sure why Wally keeps bringing it up.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2271. Wally says:
    @j2

    One moment you say one thing , the next moment you switch and say something else.

    you said: “I think these Jews were killed for eugenic reasons in eugenic centers in the camps manned by former T4 staff.”
    I challenge you to present proof for such an absurd claim.

    I have shown you the problems with your sources, you dodged them as well.
    Another example: You cite the highly biased & thoroughly discredited Yad Vashem database. recommended:
    A Brief Overview of Revisionist Critiques of Yad Vashem’s Central Database of Shoah Victims’ Names, An Introduction, By Germar Rudolf : https://codoh.com/library/document/4225/?lang=en

    much more: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Yad+Vashem+database

    [MORE]

    you said: “There is no scientific proof that Nazis did not gas people.” LOL
    Classic Zionist logic. I remind everyone about ‘the burden of proof’: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    If a claim is made about something happening that is scientifically impossible, we can then say that what is claimed to have happened in fact did not, could not have happened. Your simple minded ‘holocaust’ narrative debunks itself.
    I’ve posted technical information debunking the alleged ‘gas chambers’, but you dodge that as well.
    Are you ever truthful about anything?

    Then tell us how your claimed, laughable “2.6M Jews” died. Please show us the claimed enormous human remains that would necessarily exist.

    The official narratives say that ca. 4M Jews were gassed and another ca. 2M were shot into immense pits. An alleged ‘5M others’ are part of the official narrative as well, and they were allegedly killed in the same ways as Jews, but you dodge it.
    You dodge it because it further exposes your sham methodology which uses absurd sources, as was demonstrated in my earlier posts and the work I just posted above.

    BTW, the very first page of the CODOH Forum has numerous topics on the impossible gas chambers, why have ignored them?

    So do tell us how anything that I have posted or anything from CODOH is wrong. Be specific. No doubt you’ll run from that challenge as well.

    What’s really clear here is that you’re a Believer in the ‘holocaust’ story while not knowing what that story actually says.

    No alleged immense human remains, no ‘holocaust’.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @j2
  2272. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Pay attention, dumsky, the ‘5M others ‘ is part of the narrative.
    Leave it a Believer to faithfully believe in something they know nothing about. LOL

    The Holocaust’s Forgotten Victims: The 5 Million Non-Jewish People Killed By The Nazis: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/27/holocaust-non-jewish-victims_n_6555604.html

    [MORE]

    Five Million Forgotten – Non Jewish Victims of the Shoah: http://remember.org/forgotten

    The Other Victims of the Nazis
    In addition to six million Jews, more than five million non-Jews were murdered
    : https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/5906/590606.html

    You dodged this question, “Do you believe there were ‘Nazi gassings’?”
    and:
    I see you dodged my other demolitions of your claims that were done in my comment #2301 above.

    Do better next time.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2273. @Wally

    The self-lampoon has no end.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2274. j2 says:
    @Wally

    “One moment you say one thing , the next moment you switch and say something else.”

    That is because you do not understand. I am all the time writing the same thing. Ask somebody more intelligent than you to explain to you what I wrote.

    “you said: “I think these Jews were killed for eugenic reasons in eugenic centers in the camps manned by former T4 staff.”
    I challenge you to present proof for such an absurd claim.”

    The only claim in that sentence is that I think. It is not absurd, most people think. A proof that I think is that I have written proofs that are so difficult that even understanding what they say requires quite much thinking, so obviously I had to think.

    “I have shown you the problems with your sources, you dodged them as well.”

    I use sources the official theory accepts in order to show through them that the official theory is false. The sources I use do not need to be correct, they only need to be accepted by the official theory. Your comment is therefore irrelevant.

    “If a claim is made about something happening that is scientifically impossible, we can then say that what is claimed to have happened in fact did not, could not have happened.”

    You have not shown anything impossible with T4 eugenics centers killing patients with carbon monoxide gas. I do not know if it happened, nor do I care. But it is possible to kill somebody with gas.

    “Are you ever truthful about anything?”

    I am always truthful, while you are not. You are malicious, lying and cheating, and you are boring. You are a troll and I think you are an H-troll under a false flag.

    “Then tell us how your claimed, laughable “2.6M Jews” died. Please show us the claimed enormous human remains that would necessarily exist.”

    I have told you already, read my earlier comments. There need not be enormous human remains.

    “The official narratives say that ca. 4M Jews were gassed and another ca. 2M were shot into immense pits. An alleged ’5M others’ are part of the official narrative as well, and they were allegedly killed in the same ways as Jews, but you dodge it.”

    It is you, the H-troll, who always tries to get people to believe in the official story. I do not believe in that story.

    “BTW, the very first page of the CODOH Forum has numerous topics on the impossible gas chambers, why have ignored them?”

    It is not impossible that eugenics centers had gas chambers. Any attempt prove otherwise is faulty and can be ignored. It is possible for you to build a carbon monoxide gas chamber to your cellar and next day to destroy it. Nothing needs to show that there was such a chamber. So, no proof can demonstrate that Wally did not once have a gas chamber in his cellar. Indeed, if Wally has a bottle of any gas and took it to any room, it was a potential gas chamber, totally depending on the intentions Wally had at that time, which we cannot know.

    “So do tell us how anything that I have posted or anything from CODOH is wrong. Be specific. No doubt you’ll run from that challenge as well.”

    I have not said that something there is wrong. I have said: “On each of your comment you list some obscure links to CODOH. That site is not any more accepted than the sources I use. Only in your imagination CODOH has the status of God’s word. I prefer to avoid sites that are connected with Holocaust revisionism as such sources are considered questionable. I would in all circumstances avoid any sources connected with Wally or suggested by Wally, as Wally has absolutely no credibility.”

    Where do you see I claim it is wrong, it is just not more acceptable than the sources I use and Wally has no credibility.

    “What’s really clear here is that you’re a Believer in the ‘holocaust’ story while not knowing what that story actually says.”

    What is really clear is that either you are a nasty H-troll under a false flag, or you need help from a psychiatrist and very soon.

  2275. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    [Too many totally content-free and repetitive comments. Produce substantive ones if you want anything published.]

    [MORE]

    Ah yes, you’re just another desperately projecting Zionist doing what they do.
    It’s all so revealing & comical seeing you dodge challenge after challenge that I slap you silly with.
    http://www.codoh.com

    Another recent on topic discussion which may interest you:
    Industry’s Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania : https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  2276. @Wally

    You think I’m a Zionist? You are literally insane.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
  2277. @Beefcake the Mighty

    He’s a total obnoxious retard his anti-semitism has fried whatever mind he once had. All he does is fight with people who are on his side but who don’t subscribe to his ridiculous extreme revisionism. I’m interested in the truth and not in bashing Jews or rehabilitating Nazis. Worst spokesperson for Codoh.

  2278. Johan says:
    @j2

    “There is no scientific proof that Nazis did not gas people. Rudolf only showed that people were not gassed in large numbers in camps that still can be checked. ”

    Indeed, and this is virtually impossible to prove, as to prove that one needs a list of people and proof of how they died other wise, as you cannot die in two ways… The proper approach and formulation is that according to (some part of the) revisionists there is insufficient proof that people where gassed.

    After studying the material for a long time, I depart from the hypothesis that gassing might have happened on a small scale, as local initiatives . This would explain why most Nazis did not know about it, it would explain why there is no documented evidence (worked out plans, orders down the chain, documented logistics, etc), and it would explain why some of it is done in the amateurish manner as described (a fossil fuel engine as allegedly used in one camp is the worst amateurish manner, hardly credible that the Germans with their advanced technology and engineers would device such methods from the top).
    The rumor which went around about these small scale initiatives then became the basis of a propaganda campaign.

  2279. Johan says:
    @academic gossip

    Evidently it is not a blatant lie, it is rather a shoddy interpretation to claim that ‘ done by scientific machinery’ convincingly refers to gassings, which as described where all but ‘scientific’, rather amateurish. It seems more likely that it refers to the deportation scheme and methods in general.

    Also, ‘the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world’, after the Christian era of massive scale tortures and burning at the stake, after the communist horrors on a mass scale, at that time already known to the world, this description seems vastly exaggerated, not the usual Churchill style.

  2280. The open air cremation process allegedly used for burning all the bodies strikes me as most ridiculous.

    It’s said that in the alleged Holocaust 1.7 million Jews were killed in gas chambers at the three so-called “death camps” of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. But what happened to the bodies?

    According to the official Holocaust story, the bodies were all burned on improvised outdoor “grill racks” made of metal rails. Thousands of bodies were reduced to ash every day in fires that, according to the story, consumed only a small amount of fuel.

    But is this really possible? Just what does it take to cremate a body in the open air? This short Holocaust documentary looks into these questions using Holocaust survivor accounts, the information made available by Holocaust museums, the works of Holocaust scholars, and experimental data on cremation.

    • Replies: @Wally
  2281. Wally says:
    @My Dear Watson

    Indeed, that was precisely Ron Unz’s point, when he said: “Does anybody seriously believe something so totally ridiculous?”

    The claimed BBQ cremations are beyond laughable, the claim is an utterly desperate attempt to explain away the lack of immense human remains … even though cremation does not make human bodies disappear …. even though those remains are said to be in known locations which they are not*.
    Talk about painting themselves into a corner, the impossible claims within the ‘holocaust’ canon have done just that.
    It’s no wonder that there are laws against free speech concerning the fake story. It’s no wonder that charlatans like arch Zionist Deborah Lipstadt, professor of religion at Emory U., said that ‘there cannot be any debate with ‘holocaust deniers’ ‘.

    “The Holocaust Industry’s” lies are best summed up:’
    ‘Once they lied, they must continue to lie’

    The other claimed cremations in the typhus abatement crematorium at Auschwitz are no less the ridiculous, impossible actually. Quick points:

    – “two thousand tons of coke” that the alleged cremations (those to which Rudolf Höss “confessed”) would have needed every day, are not seen in the aerial photos

    – Auschwitz ‘eyewitness’ Dov Paisikovic stated the impossible by claiming that the cremation of one body took about four minutes!
    source: Léon Poliakov, Auschwitz, René Julliard, Paris 1964, p. 159 ff.

    A must read here:
    The Cremation Furnaces of Auschwitz, A Technical and Historical Study
    , By Carlo Mattogno , Franco Deana : https://codoh.com/library/document/4146/?lang=en

    much more here: https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=cremations

    * “The mass graves were opened and the corpses were taken out, to be consumed by the flames of huge pyres (the ‘roasts’). The bones were crushed and, together with the ashes, were reburied in the same graves.”
    – Israel Gutman (ed.), Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, 4 vols., Macmillan, New York 1990, vol. 4, p. 1481-87
    Again, a ridiculous story to be sure, but there it is.

  2282. Lou says:

    Thanks for this very reasoned well written article on a great historical fraud the Holohoax.

    History is often a MYTH we agree to tell ourselves. Clearly this Holohoax is myth. IMO anyone who EXAMINES the Holohoax for even a few hours with a little intellectual honesty smells a RAT.

    Hitler like so many political leaders was a creation of the International Bankers. WWII was a MONEY MAKING event conducted by the International Bankers beyond all else. Israel is Political pawn and the Holohoax ties it all together.

  2283. @Emanuel

    Could you explain in what way German crimes, and Japanese, were worse than allied crimes ?
    Such as
    Nicholas Bethel, ´Das letzte Geheimnis, Die Auslieferung russischer Fluchtlinge an die Sovjets durch die Allierten 1944-47’, 1975 Frankfurt am Main, ( The last secret. Forcible repatriation to Russia 1944-7, London, 1974)
    Henning von Vogelsang, ‘Die Armee, die es nicht geben durfte, Russen in deutscher Uniform und ihre Rettung in Liechtenstein’, 1995 Ulm-Kissleg
    First book, forcible repatriation to a certain death, second, how a German army composed of Russians saved itself in Liechtenstein.

  2284. Wally says:
    @Emanuel

    said: “As for the figure of 6 million, it was touted soon after WWI but was an obvious whopper and the allegation was discarded.”

    – Close, but not completely correct.
    The fake ‘6M Jews’ goes back at least 1823, as I have shown in comment #95 above.

    said: “Having said the above, I am not suggesting that the Nazis did not commit deplorable horrendous crimes. However, even now it is not too late to have a dispassionate forensic investigation of the holocaust and weed out fiction from fact.”

    – Please present proof for your ‘Nazi deplorable horrendous crimes’. I say you cannot.
    – Indeed, the lying & violent “Holocaust Industry” says that the millions upon millions of ‘holocausted’ human remains exist in supposedly known locations, but of course the claimed remain cannot be shown to exist. We know why.
    recommended examples:
    Revisionist video: The Treblinka Archaeological Hoax: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12019
    and:
    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of course: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    See my comment #97 for more examples.

    http://www.codoh.com

  2285. Ron Unz says:

    Well, this comment-thread is close to 350,000 words and getting so long that the page is becoming difficult to load, so I’m closing it down.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Ron Unz Comments via RSS