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American Pravda: Our Coronavirus Catastrophe as Biowarfare Blowback?
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Nearly 30,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus during the last two weeks, and by some estimates this is a substantial under-count, while the death-toll continues to rapidly mount. Meanwhile, measures to control the spread of this deadly infection have already cost 22 million Americans their jobs, an unprecedented economic collapse that has pushed our unemployment rates to Great Depression levels. Our country is facing a crisis as grave as almost any in our national history.

For many weeks President Trump and his political allies had regularly dismissed or minimized this terrible health threat, and suddenly now faced with such a manifest disaster, they have naturally begun seeking other culprits to blame.

The obvious choice is China, where the global epidemic first began in late 2019. Over the last week or two our media has been increasingly filled with accusations that the dishonesty and incompetence of the Chinese government played a major role in producing our own health catastrophe.

Even more serious charges are also being raised, with senior government officials informing the media that they suspect that the Covid-19 virus was developed in a Chinese laboratory in Wuhan and then carelessly released upon a vulnerable world. Such “conspiracy theories” were once confined to the extreme political fringe of the Internet, but they are now found in the respectable pages of my morning New York Times and Wall Street Journal.

Whether plausible or not, such accusations carry the gravest international implications, and there are growing demands that China financially compensate our country for its trillions of dollars in economic losses. A new global Cold War along both political and economic lines may soon be at hand.

 

I have no personal expertise in biowarfare technology, nor access to the secret American intelligence reports that seem to have been taken seriously by our most elite national newspapers. But I do think that a careful exploration of previous Sino-American clashes over the last couple of decades may provide some useful insight into the relative credibility of those two governments as well as that of our own media.

During the late 1990s, America seemed to reach the peak of its global power and prosperity, basking in the aftermath of its historic victory in the long Cold War, while ordinary Americans greatly benefited from the record-long economic expansion of that decade. A huge Tech Boom was at its height, and Islamic terrorism seemed a vague and distant thing, almost entirely confined to Hollywood movies. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the possibility of large scale war seemed to have dissipated so political leaders boasted of the “peace dividend” that citizens were starting to enjoy as our huge military forces, built up over nearly a half-century, were downsized amid sweeping cuts in the bloated defense budget. America was finally returning to a regular peacetime economy, with the benefits apparent to everyone.

At the time, I was overwhelmingly focused on domestic political issues, so I only paid slight attention to our one small military operation of that period, the 1999 NATO air war against Serbia, intended to safeguard the Kosovo Albanians from ethnic cleansing and massacre, a Clinton Administration project that I fully endorsed at the time.

Although our limited bombing campaign seemed quite successful and soon forced the Serbs to the bargaining table, the short war did include one very embarrassing mishap. The use of old maps had led to a targeting error that caused one of our smart bombs to accidentally strike the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, killing three members of its delegation and wounding dozens more. The Chinese were outraged by this incident, and their propaganda organs began claiming that the attack had been deliberate, a reckless accusation that obviously made no logical sense.

In those days I watched the PBS Newshour every night, and was I shocked to see their U.S. Ambassador raise those absurd charges with host Jim Lehrer, whose disbelief matched my own. But when I considered that the Chinese government was still stubbornly denying the reality of its massacre of the protesting students in Tiananmen Square a decade earlier, I concluded that unreasonable behavior by PRC officials was only to be expected. Indeed, there was even some speculation that China was cynically milking the unfortunate accident for domestic reasons, hoping to stoke the sort of jingoist anti-Americanism among the Chinese people that would finally help bind the social wounds of that 1989 outrage.

Such at least were my thoughts on that matter more than two decades ago. But in the years that followed, my understanding of the world and of many pivotal events of modern history underwent the sweeping transformations that I have described in my American Pravda series. And some of my 1990s assumptions were among them.

Consider, for example, the Tiananmen Square Massacre, which every June 4th still evokes an annual wave of harsh condemnations in the news and opinion pages of our leading national newspapers. I had never originally doubted those facts, but a year or two ago I happened to come across a short article by journalist Jay Matthews entitled “The Myth of Tiananmen” that completely upended that apparent reality.

According to Matthews the infamous massacre had likely never happened, but was merely a media artifact produced by confused Western reporters and dishonest propaganda, a mistaken belief that had quickly become embedded in our standard media storyline, endlessly repeated by so many ignorant journalists that they all eventually believed it to be true. Instead, as near as could be determined, the protesting students had all left Tiananmen Square peacefully, just as the Chinese government had always maintained. Indeed, leading newspapers such as the New York Times and the Washington Post had occasionally acknowledged these facts over the years, but usually buried those scanty admissions so deep in their stories that few ever noticed. Meanwhile, the bulk of the mainstream media had fallen for an apparent hoax.

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Matthews himself had been the Beijing Bureau Chief of the Washington Post, personally covering the protests at the time, and his article appeared in the Columbia Journalism Review, our most prestigious venue for media criticism. This authoritative analysis containing such explosive conclusions was first published in 1998, and I find it difficult to believe that many reporters or editors covering China have remained ignorant of this information, yet the impact has been absolutely nil. For over twenty years virtually every mainstream media account I have read has continued to promote the Tiananmen Square Massacre Hoax, usually implicitly but sometimes explicitly.

 

Even more remarkable were the discoveries I made regarding our supposedly accidental bombing of the Chinese Embassy in 1999. Not long after launching this website, I added former Asia Times contributor Peter Lee as a columnist, incorporating his China Matters blogsite archives that stretched back for a decade. He soon published a 7,000 word article on the Belgrade Embassy bombing, representing a compilation of material already contained in a half-dozen previous pieces he’d written on that subject from 2007 onward. To my considerable surprise, he provided a great deal of persuasive evidence that the American attack on the Chinese embassy had indeed been deliberate, just as China had always claimed.

According to Lee, Beijing had allowed its embassy to be used as a site for secure radio transmission facilities by the Serbian military, whose own communications network was a primary target of NATO airstrikes. Meanwhile, Serbian air defenses had shot down an advanced American F-117A fighter, whose top-secret stealth technology was a crucial U.S. military secret. Portions of that enormously valuable wreckage were carefully gathered by the grateful Serbs, who delivered it to the Chinese for temporary storage at their embassy prior to transport back home. This vital technological acquisition later allowed China to deploy its own J20 stealth fighter in early 2011, many years sooner than American military analysts had believed possible.

Based upon this analysis, Lee argued that the Chinese embassy was attacked in order to destroy the Serbian retransmission facilities located there, while punishing the Chinese for allowing such use. There were also widespread rumors in China that another motive had been an unsuccessful attempt to destroy the stealth debris stored within. Later Congressional testimony revealed that the among all the hundreds of NATO airstrikes, the attack on the Chinese embassy was the only one directly ordered by the CIA, a highly-suspicious detail.

I was only slightly familiar with Lee’s work, and under normal circumstances I would have been very cautious in accepting his remarkable claims against the contrary position universally held by all our own elite media outlets. But the sources he cited completely shifted that balance.

Although the American media dominates the English-language world, many British publications also possess a strong global reputation, and since they are often much less in thrall to our own national security state, they have sometimes covered important stories that were ignored here. And in this case, the Sunday Observer published a remarkable expose in October 1999, citing several NATO military and intelligence sources who fully confirmed the deliberate nature of the American bombing of the Chinese embassy, with a US colonel even reportedly boasting that their smartbomb had hit the exact room intended.

This important story was immediately summarized in the Guardian, a sister publication, and also covered by the rival Times of London and many of the world’s other most prestigious publications, but encountered an absolute wall of silence in our own country. Such a bizarre divergence on a story of global strategic importance—a deliberate and deadly US attack against Chinese diplomatic territory—drew the attention of FAIR, a leading American media watchdog group, which published an initial critique and a subsequent follow-up. These two pieces totaled some 3,000 words, and effectively summarized both the overwhelming evidence of the facts and also the heavy international coverage, while reporting the weak excuses made by top American editors to explain their continuing silence. Based upon these articles, I consider the matter settled.

 

Few Americans remember our 1999 attack upon the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, and if not for the annual waving of a bloody June 4th flag by our ignorant and disingenuous media, the “Tiananmen Square Massacre” would also have long since faded from memory. Neither of these events has much direct importance today, at least for our own citizens. But the broader media implications of these examples do seem quite significant.

These incidents represented two of the most serious flashpoints between the Chinese and American governments during the last thirty-odd years. In both cases the claims of the Chinese government were entirely correct, although they were denied by our own top political leaders and dismissed or ridiculed by virtually our entire mainstream media. Moreover, within a few months or a year the true facts became known to many journalists, even being reported in fully respectable venues. But that reality was still completely ignored and suppressed for decades, so that today almost no American whose information comes from our regular media would even be aware of it. Indeed, since many younger journalists draw their knowledge of the world from these same elite media sources, I suspect that many of them have never learned what their predecessors knew but dared not mention.

Most leading Chinese media outlets are owned or controlled by the Chinese government, and they tend to broadly follow the government line. Leading American media outlets have a corporate ownership structure and often boast of their fierce independence; but on many crucial matters, I think the actual reality is not so very different from that in China.

I tend to doubt that Chinese leaders have any overwhelming commitment to the truth, and the reasons for their greater veracity are probably practical ones. American news and entertainment completely dominate the global media landscape and they face no significant domestic rival. So China recognizes that it is vastly outmatched in any propaganda conflict, and as the far weaker party must necessarily try to stick closer to the truth, lest its lies be immediately exposed. Meanwhile, America’s overwhelming control over global information may inspire considerable hubris, with the government sometimes promoting the most outrageous and ridiculous falsehoods in the confident belief that a supportive American media will provide cover for any mistakes.

These considerations should be kept in mind as we attempt to sift the accounts of our often unreliable and dishonest media in hopes of extracting the true circumstances of the current coronavirus epidemic. Unlike careful historical studies, we are working in real-time and our analysis is greatly hindered by the ongoing fog of war, so that any conclusions are necessarily very preliminary ones. But given the high stakes, such an attempt seems warranted.

 

When my morning newspapers first began mentioning the appearance of a mysterious new illness in China during mid-January, I paid little attention, absorbed as I was in the aftermath of our sudden assassination of Iran’s top military leader and the dangerous possibility of a yet another Middle Eastern war. But the reports persisted and grew, with deaths occurring and evidence growing that the viral disease could be transmitted between humans. China’s early conventional efforts seemed unsuccessful in halting the spread of the disease.

Then on Jan. 23rd and after only 17 deaths, the Chinese government took the astonishing step of locking down and quarantining the entire 11 million inhabitants of the city of Wuhan, a story that drew worldwide attention. They soon extended this policy to the 60 million Chinese of Hubei province, and not longer afterward shut down their entire national economy and confined 700 million Chinese to their homes, a public health measure probably a thousand times larger than anything previously undertaken in human history. So either China’s leadership had suddenly gone insane, or they regarded this new virus as an absolutely deadly national threat, one that needed to be controlled at any possible cost.

Given these dramatic Chinese actions and the international headlines that they generated, the current accusations by Trump Administration officials that China had attempted to minimize or conceal the serious nature of the disease outbreak is so ludicrous as to defy rationality. In any event, the record shows that on December 31st, the Chinese had already alerted the World Health Organization to the strange new illness, and Chinese scientists published the entire genome of the virus on Jan. 12th, allowing diagnostic tests to be produced worldwide.

Unlike other nations, China had received no advance warning of the nature or existence of the deadly new disease, and therefore faced unique obstacles. But their government implemented public health control measures unprecedented in the history of the world and managed to almost completely eradicate the disease with merely the loss of a few thousand lives. Meanwhile, many other Western countries such as the US, Italy, Spain, France, and Britain dawdled for months and ignored the potential threat, and have now suffered well over 100,000 dead as a consequence, with the toll still rapidly mounting. For any of these nations or their media organs to criticize China for its ineffectiveness or slow response represents an absolute inversion of reality.

Some governments took full advantage of the early warning and scientific information provided by China. Although nearby East Asian nations such as South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore had been at greatest risk and were among the first infected, their competent and energetic responses allowed them to almost completely suppress any major outbreak, and they have suffered minimal fatalities. But America and several European countries avoiding adopting these same early measures such as widespread testing, quarantine, and contact-tracing, and have paid a terrible price for their insouciance.

A few weeks ago British Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that his own disease strategy for Britain was based upon rapidly achieving “herd immunity”—essentially encouraging the bulk of his citizens to become infected—then quickly backed away after his desperate advisors recognized that the result might entail a million or more British deaths.

By any reasonable measure, the response to this global health crisis by China and most East Asian countries has been absolutely exemplary, while that of many Western countries has been equally disastrous. Maintaining reasonable public health has been a basic function of governments since the days of the city-states of Sumeria, and the sheer and total incompetence of America and most of its European vassals has been breathtaking. If the Western media attempts to pretend otherwise, it will permanently forfeit whatever remaining international credibility it still possesses.

 

I do not think these particular facts are much disputed except among the most blinkered partisans, and the Trump Administration probably recognizes the hopelessness of arguing otherwise. This may explain its recent shift towards a far more explosive and controversial narrative, namely claiming that Covid-19 may have been the product of Chinese research into deadly viruses at a Wuhan laboratory, which suggests that the blood of hundreds of thousands or millions of victims around the world will be on Chinese hands. Dramatic accusations backed by overwhelming international media power may deeply resonate across the globe.

News reports appearing in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times have been reasonably consistent. Senior Trump Administration officials have pointed to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a leading Chinese biolab, as the possible source of the infection, with the deadly virus having been accidentally released, subsequently spreading first throughout China and later worldwide. Trump himself has publicly voiced similar suspicions, as did Secretary of State and former CIA Director Mike Pompeo in a FoxNews interview. Private lawsuits against China in the multi-trillion-dollar range have already been filed by rightwing activists and Republican senators Tom Cotton and Lindsey Graham have raised similar governmental demands.

I obviously have no personal access to the classified intelligence reports that have been the basis of these charges by Trump, Pompeo, and other top administration officials. But in reading these recent news accounts, I noticed something rather odd.

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Back in January, few Americans were paying much attention to the early reports of an unusual disease outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan, which was hardly a household name. Instead, overwhelming political attention was focused on the battle over Trump’s impeachment and the aftermath of our dangerous military confrontation with Iran. But towards the end of that month, I discovered that the fringes of the Internet were awash with claims that the disease was caused by a Chinese bioweapon accidentally released from that same Wuhan laboratory, with former Trump advisor Steve Bannon and ZeroHedge, a popular right-wing conspiracy-website, playing leading roles in advancing the theory. Indeed, the stories became so widespread in those ideological circles that Sen. Tom Cotton, a leading Republican Neocon, began promoting them on Twitter and FoxNews, thereby provoking an article in the NYT on those “fringe conspiracy theories.”

I suspect that it may be more than purely coincidental that the biowarfare theories which erupted in such concerted fashion on small political websites and Social Media accounts back in January so closely match those now publicly advocated by top Trump Administration officials and supposedly based upon our most secure intelligence sources. Perhaps a few intrepid citizen-activists managed to replicate the findings of our multi-billion-dollar intelligence apparatus, and did so in days while the latter required weeks or months. But a more likely scenario is that the wave of January speculation was driven by private leaks and “guidance” provided by exactly the same elements that today are very publicly leveling similar charges in the elite media. Initially promoting controversial theories in less mainstream outlets has long been a fairly standard intelligence practice.

Regardless of the origins of the idea, does it seem plausible that the coronavirus outbreak might have originated as an accidental leak from that Chinese laboratory? I am not privy to the security procedures of Chinese government facilities, but applying a little common sense may shed some light on that question.

Although the coronavirus is only moderately lethal, apparently having a fatality rate of 1% or less, it is extremely contagious, including during an extended pre-symptomatic period and also among asymptomatic carriers. Thus, portions of the US and Europe are now suffering heavy casualties, while the policies adopted to control the spread have devastated their national economies. Although the virus is unlikely to kill more than a small sliver of our population, we have seen to our dismay how a major outbreak can so easily wreck our entire economic life.

During January, the journalists reporting on China’s mushrooming health crisis regularly emphasized that the mysterious new viral outbreak had occurred at the worst possible place and time, appearing in the major transport hub of Wuhan just prior to the Lunar New Year holiday, when hundreds of millions of Chinese would normally travel to their distant family homes for the celebration, thereby potentially spreading the disease to all parts of the country and producing a permanent, uncontrollable epidemic. The Chinese government avoided that grim fate by the unprecedented decision to shut down its entire national economy and confine 700 million Chinese to their own homes for many weeks. But the outcome seems to have been a very near thing, and if Wuhan had remained open for just a few days longer, China might easily have suffered long-term economic and social devastation.

The timing of an accidental laboratory release would obviously be entirely random. Yet the outbreak seems to have begun during the precise period of time most likely to damage China, the worst possible ten-day or perhaps thirty-day window. As I noted in January, I saw no solid evidence that the coronavirus was a bioweapon, but if it were, the timing of the release seemed very unlikely to have been accidental.

 

If the virus had been released intentionally, the context and motive for such a biowarfare attack against China could not be more obvious. Although our disingenuous media continues to pretend otherwise, the size of China’s economy surpassed that of our own several years ago, and has continued to grow much more rapidly. Chinese companies have also taken the lead in several crucial technologies, with Huawei becoming the world’s leading telecommunications equipment manufacturer and dominating the important 5G market. China’s sweeping Belt and Road Initiative has threatened to reorient global trade around an interconnected Eurasian landmass, greatly diminishing the leverage of America’s own control over the seas. I have closely followed China for over forty years, and the trend-lines have never been more apparent. Back in 2012, I published an article bearing the provocative title “China’s Rise, America’s Fall?” and since then I have seen no reason to reassess my verdict.

For three generations following the end of World War II, America had stood as the world’s supreme economic and technological power, while the collapse of the Soviet Union thirty years ago left us as the sole remaining superpower, facing no conceivable military rival. A growing sense that we were rapidly losing that unchallenged position had certainly inspired the anti-China rhetoric of many senior figures in the Trump Administration, who launched a major trade war soon after coming into office. The increasing misery and impoverishment of large sections of the American population naturally left these voters searching for a convenient scapegoat, and the prosperous, rising Chinese made a perfect target.

Despite America’s growing economic conflict with China over the last couple of years, I had never considered the possibility that matters might take a military turn. The Chinese had long ago deployed advanced intermediate range missiles that many believed could easily sink our carriers in the region, and they had also generally improved their conventional military deterrent. Moreover, China was on quite good terms with Russia, which itself had been the target of intense American hostility for several years; and Russia’s new suite of revolutionary hypersonic missiles had drastically reduced any American strategic advantage. Thus, a conventional war against China seemed an absolutely hopeless undertaking, while China’s outstanding businessmen and engineers were steadily gaining ground against America’s decaying and heavily-financialized economic system.

Under these difficult circumstances, an American biowarfare attack against China might have seemed the only remaining card to play in hopes of maintaining American supremacy. Plausible deniability would minimize the risk of any direct Chinese retaliation, and if successful, the terrible blow inflicted to China’s economy would set it back for many years, perhaps even destabilizing its social and political system. Using alternative media to immediately promote theories that the coronavirus outbreak was the result of a leak from a Chinese biowarfare lab was a natural means of preempting any later Chinese accusations along similar lines, thereby allowing America to win the international propaganda war before China had even begun to play.

A decision by elements of our national security establishment to wage biological warfare in hopes of maintaining American world power would certainly have been an extremely reckless act, but extreme recklessness has become a regular aspect of American behavior since 2001, especially under the Trump Administration. Just a year earlier we had kidnapped the daughter of Huawei’s founder and chairman, who also served as CFO and ranked as one of China’s most top executives, while at the beginning of January we suddenly assassinated Iran’s top military leader.

 

These were the thoughts that entered my mind during the last week of January once I discovered the widely circulating theories suggesting that China’s massive disease epidemic had been the self-inflicted consequence of its own biowarfare research. I saw no solid evidence that the coronavirus was a bioweapon, but if it were, China was surely the innocent victim of the attack, presumably carried out by elements of the American national security establishment.

Soon afterward, someone brought to my attention a very long article by an American ex-pat living in China who called himself “Metallicman” and held a wide range of eccentric and implausible beliefs. I have long recognized that flawed individuals can often serve as the vessels of important information otherwise unavailable, and this case constituted a perfect example. His piece denounced the outbreak as a likely American biowarfare attack, and provided a great wealth of factual material I had not previously considered. Since he authorized republication elsewhere I did so, and his 15,000 word analysis, although somewhat raw and unpolished, began attracting an enormous amount of readership on our website, probably being one of the very first English-language pieces to suggest that the mysterious new disease was an American bioweapon. Many of his arguments appeared doubtful to me or have been obviated by later developments, but several seemed quite telling.

He pointed out that during the previous two years, the Chinese economy had already suffered serious blows from other mysterious new diseases, although these had targeted farm animals rather than people. During 2018 a new Avian Flu virus had swept the country, eliminating large portions of China’s poultry industry, and during 2019 the Swine Flu viral epidemic had devastated China’s pig farms, destroying 40% of the nation’s primary domestic source of meat, with widespread claims that the latter disease was being spread by mysterious small drones. My morning newspapers had hardly ignored these important business stories, noting that the sudden collapse of much of China’s domestic food production might prove a huge boon to American farm exports at the height of our trade conflict, but I had never considered the obvious implications. So for three years in a row, China had been severely impacted by strange new viral diseases, though only the most recent had been deadly to humans. This evidence was merely circumstantial, but the pattern seemed highly suspicious.

The writer also noted that shortly before the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, that city had hosted 300 visiting American military officers, who came to participate in the 2019 Military World Games, an absolutely remarkable coincidence of timing. As I pointed out at the time, how would Americans react if 300 Chinese military officers had paid an extended visit to Chicago, and soon afterward a mysterious and deadly epidemic had suddenly broken out in that city? Once again, the evidence was merely circumstantial but certainly raised dark suspicions.

Scientific investigation of the coronavirus had already pointed to its origins in a bat virus, leading to widespread media speculation that bats sold as food in the Wuhan open markets had been the original disease vector. Meanwhile, the orchestrated waves of anti-China accusations had emphasized Chinese laboratory research on that same viral source. But we soon published a lengthy article by investigative journalist Whitney Webb providing copious evidence of America’s own enormous biowarfare research efforts, which had similarly focused for years on bat viruses. Webb was then associated with MintPress News, but that publication had strangely declined to publish her important piece, perhaps skittish about the grave suspicions it directed towards the US government on so momentous an issue. So without the benefit of our platform, her major contribution to the public debate might have attracted relatively little readership.

 

Around the same time, I noted another extremely strange coincidence that failed to attract any interest from our somnolent national media. Although his name had meant nothing to me, in late January my morning newspapers carried major stories on the sudden arrest of Prof. Charles Lieber, one of Harvard University’s top scientists and Chairman of its Chemistry Department, sometimes characterized as a potential future Nobel Laureate.

The circumstances of that case seemed utterly bizarre to me. Like numerous other prominent American academics, Lieber had had decades of close research ties with China, holding joint appointments and receiving substantial funding for his work. But now he was accused of financial reporting violations in the disclosure portions of his government grant applications—the most obscure sort of offense—and on the basis of those accusations, he was seized by the FBI in an early-morning raid on his suburban Lexington home and dragged off in shackles, potentially facing years of federal imprisonment.

Such government action against an academic seemed almost without precedent. During the height of the Cold War, numerous American scientists and technicians were rightfully accused of having stolen our nuclear weapons secrets for delivery to Stalin, yet I had never heard of any of them treated in so harsh a manner, let alone a scholar of Prof. Lieber’s stature, who was merely charged with technical disclosure violations. Indeed, this incident recalled accounts of NKVD raids during the Soviet purges of the 1930s.

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Although Lieber was described as a chemistry professor, a few seconds of Googling revealed that some of his most important work had been in virology, including technology for the detection of viruses. So a massive and deadly new viral epidemic had broken out in China and almost simultaneously, a top American scholar with close Chinese ties and expertise in viruses was suddenly arrested by the federal government, yet no one in the media expressed any curiosity at a possible connection between these two events.

I think we can safely assume that Lieber’s arrest by the FBI had been prompted by the concurrent coronavirus epidemic, but anything more is mere speculation. Those now accusing China of having created the coronavirus might surely suggest that our intelligence agencies discovered that the Harvard professor had been personally involved with that deadly research. But I think a far more likely possibility is that Lieber began to wonder whether the epidemic in China might not be the result of an American biowarfare attack, and was perhaps a little too free in voicing his suspicions, thereby drawing the wrath of our national security establishment. Inflicting such extremely harsh treatment upon a top Harvard scientist would greatly intimidate all of his lesser colleagues elsewhere, who would surely now think twice before broaching certain controversial theories to any journalist.

 

By the end of January, our webzine had published a dozen articles and posts on the coronavirus outbreak, then added many more by the middle of February. These pieces totaled tens of thousands of words and attracted a half million words of comments, probably representing the primary English-language source for a particular perspective on the deadly epidemic, with this material eventually drawing many hundreds of thousands of pageviews. A few weeks later, the Chinese government began gingerly raising the possibility that the coronavirus may have been brought to Wuhan by the 300 American military officers visiting that city, and was fiercely attacked by the Trump Administration for spreading anti-American propaganda. But I strongly suspect that the Chinese had gotten that idea from our own publication.

As the coronavirus gradually began to spread beyond China’s own borders, another development occurred that greatly multiplied my suspicions. Most of these early cases had occurred exactly where one might expect, among the East Asian countries bordering China. But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior. Indeed, Neocon activists on Twitter began gleefully noting that their hatred Iranian enemies were now dropping like flies.

Let us consider the implications of these facts. Across the entire world the only political elites that have yet suffered any significant human losses have been those of Iran, and they died at a very early stage, before significant outbreaks had even occurred almost anywhere else in the world outside China. Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iranian ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?

Biological warfare is a highly technical subject, and those possessing such expertise are unlikely to candidly report their classified research activities in the pages of our major newspapers, perhaps even less so after Prof. Lieber was dragged off to prison in chains. My own knowledge is nil. But in mid-March I came across several extremely long and detailed comments on the coronavirus outbreak that had been posted on a small website by an individual calling himself “OldMicrobiologist” and who claimed to be a retired forty-year veteran of American biodefense. The style and details of his material struck me as quite credible, and after a little further investigation I concluded that there was a high likelihood his background was exactly as he had described. I made arrangements to republish his comments in the form of a 3,400 word article, which soon attracted a great deal of traffic and 80,000 words of further comments.

Although the writer emphasized the lack of any hard evidence, he said that his experience led him to strongly suspect that the coronavirus outbreak was indeed an American biowarfare attack against China, probably carried out by agents brought into that country under cover of the Military Games held at Wuhan in late October, the sort of sabotage operation our intelligence agencies had sometimes undertaken elsewhere. One important point he made was that high lethality was often counter-productive in a bioweapon since debilitating or hospitalizing large numbers of individuals may impose far greater economic costs on a country than a biological agent which simply inflicts an equal number of deaths. In his words “a high communicability, low lethality disease is perfect for ruining an economy,” suggesting that the apparent characteristics of the coronavirus were close to optimal in this regard. Those so interested should read his analysis and judge for themselves his possible credibility and persuasiveness.

One intriguing aspect of the situation was that almost from the first moment that reports of the strange new epidemic in China reached the international media, a large and orchestrated campaign had been launched on numerous websites and Social Media platforms to identify the cause as a Chinese bioweapon carelessly released in its own country. Meanwhile, the far more plausible hypothesis that China was the victim rather than the perpetrator had received virtually no organized support anywhere, and only began to take shape as I gradually located and republished relevant material, usually drawn from very obscure quarters and often anonymously authored. So it seemed that only the side hostile to China was waging an active information war. The outbreak of the disease and the nearly simultaneous launch of such a major propaganda campaign may not necessarily prove that an actual biowarfare attack had occurred, but I do think it tends to support such a theory.

 

When considering the hypothesis of an American biowarfare attack, certain natural objections come to mind. The major drawback to biological warfare has always been the obvious fact that the self-replicating agents employed will not respect national borders, thus raising the serious risk that the disease might eventually return to the land of its origin and inflict substantial casualties. For this reason, it seems very doubtful that any rational and half-competent American leadership would have unleashed the coronavirus against China.

But as we see absolutely demonstrated in our daily news headlines, America’s current government is grotesquely and manifestly incompetent, more incompetent than one could almost possibly imagine, with tens of thousands of Americans having now already paid with their lives for such extreme incompetence. Rationality and competence are obviously nowhere to be found among the Deep State Neocons that President Donald Trump has appointed to so many crucial positions throughout our national security apparatus.

Moreover, the extremely lackadaisical notion that a massive coronavirus outbreak in China would never spread back to America might have seemed plausible to individuals who carelessly assumed that past historical analogies would continue to apply. As I wrote a few weeks ago:

Reasonable people have suggested that if the coronavirus was a bioweapon deployed by elements of the American national security apparatus against China (and Iran), it’s difficult to imagine why the they didn’t assume it would naturally leak back in the US and start a huge pandemic here, as is currently happening.

The most obvious answer is that they were stupid and incompetent, but here’s another point to consider…

In late 2002 there was the outbreak of SARS in China, a related virus but that was far more deadly and somewhat different in other characteristics. The virus killed hundreds of Chinese and spread into a few other countries before it was controlled and stamped out. The impact on the US and Europe was negligible, with just a small scattering of cases and only a death or two.

So if American biowarfare analysts were considering a coronavirus attack against China, isn’t it quite possible they would have said to themselves that since SARS never significantly leaked back into the US or Europe, we’d similarly remain insulated from the coronavirus? Obviously, such an analysis was foolish and mistaken, but would it have seemed so implausible at the time?

 

As some must have surely noticed, I have deliberately avoided investigating any of the scientific details of the coronavirus. In principle, an objective and accurate analysis of the characteristics and structure of the virus might help suggest whether it was entirely natural or rather the product of a research laboratory, and in the latter case, perhaps whether the likely source was China, America, or some third country.

But we are dealing with a cataclysmic world event and those questions obviously have enormous political ramifications, so the entire subject is shrouded by a thick fog of complex propaganda, with numerous conflicting claims being advanced by interested parties. I have no background in microbiology let alone biological warfare, so I would be hopelessly adrift in evaluating such conflicting scientific and technical claims. I suspect that this is equally true of the overwhelming majority of other observers as well, although committed partisans are loathe to admit that fact, and will eagerly seize upon any scientific argument that supports their preferred position while rejecting those that contradict it.

Therefore, by necessity, my own focus is on evidence that can at least be understood by every layman, if not necessarily always accepted. And I believe that the simple juxtaposition of several recent disclosures in the mainstream media leads to a rather telling conclusion.

For obvious reasons, the Trump Administration has become very eager to emphasize the early missteps and delays in the Chinese reaction to the viral outbreak in Wuhan, and has presumably encouraged our media outlets to direct their focus in that direction.

As an example of this, the Associated Press Investigative Unit recently published a rather detailed analysis of those early events purportedly based upon confidential Chinese documents. Provocatively entitled “China Didn’t Warn Public of Likely Pandemic for 6 Key Days”, the piece was widely distributed, running in abridged form in the NYT and elsewhere. According to this reconstruction, the Chinese government first became aware of the seriousness of this public health crisis on Jan. 14th, but delayed taking any major action until Jan. 20th, a period of time during which the number of infections greatly multiplied.

Last month, a team of five WSJ reporters produced a very detailed and thorough 4,400 word analysis of the same period, and the NYT has published a helpful timeline of those early events as well. Although there may be some differences of emphasis or minor disagreements, all these American media sources agree that Chinese officials first became aware of the serious viral outbreak in Wuhan in early to mid-January, with the first known death occurring on Jan. 11th, and finally implemented major new public health measures later that same month. No one has apparently disputed these basic facts.

But with the horrific consequences of our own later governmental inaction being obvious, elements within our intelligence agencies have sought to demonstrate that they were not the ones asleep at the switch. Earlier this month, an ABC News story cited four separate government sources to reveal that as far back as late November, a special medical intelligence unit within our Defense Intelligence Agency had produced a report warning that an out-of-control disease epidemic was occurring in the Wuhan area of China, and widely distributed that document throughout the top ranks of our government, warning that steps should be taken to protect US forces based in Asia. After the story aired, a Pentagon spokesman officially denied the existence of that November report, while various other top level government and intelligence officials refused to comment. But a few days later, Israeli television mentioned that in November American intelligence had indeed shared such a report on the Wuhan disease outbreak with its NATO and Israeli allies, thus seeming to independently confirm the complete accuracy of the original ABC News story and its several government sources.

ORDER IT NOW

It therefore appears that elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency were aware of the deadly viral outbreak in Wuhan more than a month before any officials in the Chinese government itself. Unless our intelligence agencies have pioneered the technology of precognition, I think this may have happened for the same reason that arsonists have the earliest knowledge of future fires.

Back in February, before a single American had died from the disease, I wrote my own overview of the possible course of events, and I would still stand by it today:

Consider a particularly ironic outcome of this situation, not particularly likely but certainly possible…

Everyone knows that America’s ruling elites are criminal, crazy, and also extremely incompetent.

So perhaps the coronavirus outbreak was indeed a deliberate biowarfare attack against China, hitting that nation just before Lunar New Year, the worst possible time to produce a permanent nationwide pandemic. However, the PRC responded with remarkable speed and efficiency, implementing by far the largest quarantine in human history, and the deadly disease now seems to be in decline there.

Meanwhile, the disease naturally leaks back into the US, and despite all the advance warning, our totally incompetent government mismanages the situation, producing a huge national health disaster, and the collapse of our economy and decrepit political system.

As I said, not particularly likely, but certainly a very fitting end to the American Empire…

Related Reading:

 
The American Pravda Series
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  1. But their government implemented public health control measures unprecedented in the history of the world and managed to almost completely eradicate the disease with merely the loss of a few thousand lives

    And if you can’t trust China’s numbers, who can you trust?

    The timing of an accidental laboratory release would obviously be entirely random. Yet the outbreak seems to have begun during precise period of time most likely to damage China

    It almost sounds like putting a virus lab in the middle of twelve million people was a bad idea.

    Lol. I can’t believe you’re doubling down on this jackassery.

  2. Ron Unz has done it again!! Good job, I’ve always thought the standard “Wuhan lab leak” theory seemed flawed

  3. Mr Unz, also have you read David Cole’s theory on this (at TakiMag)? I know you and him got in blog beef a couple years ago over your Pravda article on Holocaust, but his theory also criticized the Wuhan “lab leak” and believes the wet markets originated the virus while the state lab was trying to cover up the “natural market” zoonotic mess. Would be fun to (again) watch you 2 debate notes.

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    , @hs4691506
  4. Tor597 says:

    If I had told you a year ago that Iran would have its top General assassinated and then its country decimated by a viral infection, that China would be a world pariah with calls for trillion in reparations, that Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela would have a bounty on his head for lol being involved in the cocaine trade, and that Kim Jong Un would be dead who do you think would be the architect of this future?

    Chinese elites or American ones?

    American neocons are literally getting everything they want.

    You can look at all of the damage to the American economy relative to China, but who is really being hurt in America? Regular Americans are being hurt. But the elites are getting bailed out and will buy US assets for pennies on the dollar.

  5. “When considering the hypothesis of an American biowarfare attack, certain natural objections come to mind. The major drawback to biological warfare has always been the obvious fact that the self-replicating agents employed are not prone to respect national borders, raising the serious risk that the disease might eventually return to the land of its origin and inflict substantial casualties. For this reason, it seems quite doubtful that any rational and half-competent American leadership would have unleashed the coronavirus against China.”

    Unless, of course, those in power knew exactly what that ‘blowback’ would entail, as they had modeled it over and over, for years, maybe decades.

    They would be in a position to crash the stock market (and get out at the very top), assure a new alliance between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury (allowing the elites to use the American taxpayers to fund their losses indefinitely), destroy the middle and lower classes through government ordered ‘lockdowns’ (driving down wages yet again, and making Americans frightened, unemployed and angry, and thereby easily mislead like in the 9/11 aftermath), create a world political environment allowing medical tyranny to make universal yearly vaccines and mandatory microchipping of everyone acceptable to the masses (ala Bill Gates/Tony Fauci/WHO and their Pig Pharma vaccine brigade), drop the price of oil indefinitely to fatally weaken Iran, hurt Russia and allow our predator capitalist banks to scoop up the failing US shale oil industry for pennies (which they are fully preparing to do), and ultimately allow the elites to perfectly time the inevitable deflation of the world’s derivatives bubble, further sending the commoners into complete panic mode (and making their primal fears easily directed against the Western world’s now common enemy, the Red Yellow Hordes.)

    Doesn’t sound very ‘incompetent’ to me. Sounds like utterly evil, but undeniably brilliant, military-economic planning. And it is looking like they may pull this one off, just like 9/11, and get the scared and terminally gullible Western plebes on board for their own further destruction economically, politically, and very possibly physically.

    End Result: the PTB get to blame China for everything; make China foot the bill (or else); and when China balks, prepare the West’s gullible, easily controlled citizens for military conflict if the Chinese don’t roll over and cough up to the West’s satisfaction.

    Incompetence?

    Sure looks to me like a neoliberal zionist-neocon elitist wet dream come true…..

  6. @Otto von Komsmark

    If you believe that the virus originated in a wet market, what’s your theory on why China immediately allowed wet markets to open back up (albeit with guards posted to prevent pics). Are they just exceptionally slow learners or do they realize that the wet market theory was always bogus?

  7. swamped says:

    “…the Chinese government began gingerly raising the possibility that the coronavirus may have been brought to Wuhan by the 300 American military officers visiting that city, and was fiercely attacked by the Trump Administration for spreading anti-American propaganda. But I strongly suspect that the Chinese had gotten that idea from our own publication”…not at all improbable since said publication has a very deep current of slavish devotion to the Chinese state; such that one might even strongly suspect that the publication is getting its ideas from the Chinese totalitarians as much as the other way round. But since ‘false flag’ theories are another popular concept in such discussions, it might be conceivable that the human rights regime in Beijing deliberately released the mystery bug in China & Iran first, in order to throw suspicion on the U.S. The Chinese & Iranian tallies so far have been surprisingly low despite starting there earlier, so if they’re not suppressing the facts, maybe they knew what to expect & were prepared. And the brunt of it would then be borne by their Western ‘adversaries’. Not to mention, that the Chinese despots could reinforce their iron grip on Chinese society with their customary contempt for civil liberties. China’s “current government is grotesquely and manifestly” incompatible with personal freedom, more incompatible than “one could almost possibly imagine”, with tens of millions of Uighurs, Tibetans, dissidents, workers having now already paid with their lives & freedom for such extreme incompatibility.
    “Rationality and competence are obviously nowhere to be found among the Deep State Neocons that President Donald Trump has appointed to so many crucial positions throughout our national security apparatus”…and certainly rationality, competence, humanity are never to be found among Neo-cons anywhere. The President has been wise to largely ignore them. If Trump had been President in ’99, it’s very likely that the absolutely unnecessary, devastating war on Serbia by Hillary & Bill – based on deliberate lies – would never have gotten off the ground.
    President Trump now faces the daunting dilemma of how to protect the society while at the same time not displaying the same disdain for political & civic freedom that is the hallmark of the CCP. An end to America Empire would be a good thing – the President knows that, as he again reiterated the trillions misspent in the M.E. at his daily press conference today – but this isn’t the way to do it. Only a Chinese communist or fellow traveler could believe that.

  8. “At the time, I was overwhelmingly focused on domestic political issues, so I only paid slight attention to our one small military operation of those years, the 1999 NATO air war against Serbia, intended to safeguard the Bosnian Muslims from ethnic cleansing and massacre, a Clinton Administration project that I fully endorsed.” And why should one believe our government and media about “safeguard(ing) the Bosnian Muslims from ethnic cleansing and massacre” any more than one should believe their other lies?

  9. TG says:

    For most of this post, I can’t say one way or the other. I personally think this was either the result of the so-called “wet-markets” in China – long known to be the primary source of the annual flu epidemics (why the heck haven’t they been shut down??) or a criminally NEGLIGENT release from a research lab.

    But.

    “China recognizes that it is vastly outmatched in any propaganda conflict, and so as the far weaker party must necessarily try to stick closer to the truth, lest its lies be immediately exposed. Meanwhile, America’s overwhelming control over information may lead to considerable hubris, with the government sometimes promoting the most outrageous and ridiculous falsehoods in the confident belief that a supportive American media will cover for any mistakes.”

    OUCH! Good one. Nicely said.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Anon
  10. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Nearly 30,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus during the last two weeks, and by some estimates this is a substantial under-count

    Quoted numbers of deaths are as unreliable as the number of infections.

    Cause of death as stated in a death certificate is often, and even usually, wrong, and during an epidemic caused by a virus that induces respiratory difficulty it is likely that virtually all deaths due to respiratory dysfunction will be attributed to the virus without confirmatory evidence.

    Furthermore, virtually all deaths of persons testing positive for covid19 will be attributed to the virus even though the deceased may have had multiple other diseases, any one of which could have been the cause of death.

    But as this epidemic is shaping up, it is likely that the estimated death toll will be comparable to that of the seasonal flu in a bad year. Herd immunity is likely now widespread, so the thing should fizzle out soon, with or without continued population incarceration.

    • Agree: Hail, druid55
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Spanky
    , @Gleongelpi
  11. Tor597 says:

    Unz, just wanted to say that it has been quite a ride to read this blog during the outbreak.

    Stuff we talked about 2 months ago is starting to trickle out into the mainstream with the appropriate spin of course.

    There really is no other place where alternative views such as your get a proper viewing.

    • Replies: @Emslander
  12. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Boris Johnson boldly declared that his own coronavirus plan for Britain was based upon rapidly achieving “herd immunity”—essentially encouraging the bulk of his citizens to become infected—then quickly backed away after his desperate advisors recognized that the result might entail a million or more British deaths.

    LOL. Neil Ferguson an Imperial College epidemiologist with an awesomely bad track record in predicting the course of epidemics, made some such prediction which he soon modified to a very much smaller number – 20,000 I believe, a number not yet reached.

    In fact, the original plan was abandoned for fear that unrestricted spread of the virus would result in a concentration of infections, which at the peak, would overload hospitals by that minority of cases requiring hospital treatment.

    • Replies: @anon
  13. Getaclue says:
    @Ozymandias

    Seems they could and did: https://fromrome.info/2020/03/26/rai-in-2015-reported-that-the-chinese-had-developed-covid-19/

    https://fromrome.info/2020/03/17/multiple-studies-point-to-chinese-biowarfare-lab-in-wuhan-as-designer-of-covid-19/

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/update-dr-shi-zhengli-ran-coronavirus-research-wuhan-us-project-shut-dhs-2014-risky-prior-leak-killed-researcher/

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/france-also-involved-wuhan-coronavirus-facility-awarded-bat-doctor-shi-high-level-french-civil-medal/

    Not just NWO ChiCom China of course– they’re just the tool, the NWO “Elites”/Globalists, who shipped USA Manufacturing to China and destroyed the Middle Class in the USA etc., have made China the “Model” for us all — “Social Credit Scores” for the Peons, an authoritarian “Party” of “Elites” with all power, Peons having to get a “green” signal on their cell phones every time they go outside…. — NWO Globalist “Elites” actually running the CVirus show/”Production”/911 “Event” Part 2 — “Invisible Terrorists Forever”– meanwhile most “journalists” are cheering the loss of freedoms and anyone who points out what is going on wants to “kill Grandma” is “Selfish” it’s all about on a Junior High School level but after getting away with 911 Demolition anyone not a rube, grifter/or in on it knew they’d be back to finish it off– and so they are here with the Plandemic:
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/elite-covid-19-coup-against-terrified-humanity-resisting-powerfully/5709479

    Side note: Interesting the Mainslime Media is not all over China’s Racism towards Blacks as evidenced in their Ad here against “Diversity” and “Race Mixing”– they aren’t kidding! Seems ChiComs can do what YT could never….: https://twitter.com/sadir_Palwan/status/1250570077163925509

    All of it laid out on the Walls of the creepy NWO/Masonic Denver Airport: https://thechive.com/2012/03/08/something-is-rotten-in-the-denver-airport-25-photos/

    Rothschild Magazine too: https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/order-out-of-chaos-how-the-elites-plans-were-foretold-in-popular-culture/

    • Agree: Christopher Marlowe
    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  14. anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Grossly unfair to blame the Trump administration for the depredations of the deep state.

    • LOL: bluedog
    • Replies: @Greg the American
    , @Julius
  15. “The Myth of Tiananmen”

    .

    Nanjing anti-African protests

    The Nanjing protests were groundbreaking dissidence for China and went from solely expressing concern about alleged [sic] improprieties by African men to increasingly calling for democracy or human rights. They were paralleled by burgeoning demonstrations in other cities during the period between the Nanjing and the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, with some elements of the original protests that started in Nanjing still evident in Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, such as banners proclaiming “Stop Taking Advantage of Chinese Women” even though the vast majority of African students had left the country by that point.

  16. Jeremygg5 says:
    @Ozymandias

    And if you can’t trust China’s numbers, who can you trust?

    It’s very true that China’s numbers is perhaps the best numbers that you could trust.

    Moritz Kraemer, a scholar at Oxford University who is leading a team of researchers in mapping the global spread of the coronavirus, says China’s data “provided incredible detail,” including a patient’s age, sex, travel history and history of chronic disease, as well as where the case was reported, and the dates of the onset of symptoms, hospitalization and confirmation of infection.
    The United States, he said, “has been slow in collecting data in a systematic way.”. The article not only showing the chaotic situation in different states, but highlights the limited information shared with scientific community.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/coronavirus-data-privacy.html

    The WHO too only had high praises for China’s transparency and efficiency.

    The only parties challenging these are Trump, Mike Pompeo, and the US Intelligence. Make a pick who to trust.

  17. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    But in mid-March I came across several extremely long and detailed comments on the coronavirus outbreak that had been posted on a small website by an individual calling himself “OldMicrobiologist” and who claimed to be a retired forty-year veteran of American biodefense. The style and details of his material struck me as quite credible, and after a little further investigation I concluded that there was a high likelihood that his background was exactly as he had described. I made arrangements to republish his comments in the form of a 3,400 word article, which soon attracted a great deal of traffic and 80,000 words of further comments.

    Although the writer said that he had absolutely no proof, he said that his experience led him to strongly suspect that the coronavirus outbreak was indeed an American biowarfare attack against China, probably carried out by agents brought into that country under cover of the Military Games held at Wuhan in late October, the sort of sabotage operation our intelligence agencies had sometimes undertaken elsewhere.

    Oh God, that crap again. Some geezer who may or may not have any relevant expertise, had a suspicion, but absolutely no proof, of a goofy theory that to launch a biowarfare attack on China the US Government had the brilliant idea of having the agent released by a contingent of 300 American soldiers participating in the international military games held in Wuhan, China.

    Is that a stupid idea, or what?

    And anyhow, there is evidence just published in the Proceedings of the US National Academy of Sciences that the viral epidemic in China did not begin in Wuhan and, furthermore, it began earlier than originally believed, i.e., before the Military Games.

    But we are dealing with a cataclysmic world event

    Not really. Just a new disease out of China, one of many from China since the year dot, which has a lethality comparable to the seasonal flu. The event is cataclysmic only because of the economic consequences of the public policy response in most Western states, though not Sweden.

  18. nsa says:
    @Ozymandias

    Hey Ozy, The Australians claimed to have suffered only 120 wu-wu virus deaths total. The South Koreans claim only 250 wu-wu deaths total. In Ozy world, are they liars too along with the Chinese? Or is it possible they have a functional public health system and moderately competent politicians who decided to fix the wu-wu virus problem……….instead of playing golf and bullshitting the public for six weeks. The wu-wu virus death total in the essential exceptional nation is now 42,000 and rising. No other country is even close. It’s like Trumpie heard the experts advise “fatten the curve” instead of “flatten the curve”.

    • LOL: Parfois1
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  19. Anonymous[886] • Disclaimer says:

    So, you “fully endorsed” Clinton Administration 1999 NATO air war against Serbia, and you don’t even know that it wasn’t “intended to safeguard the Bosnian Muslims from ethnic cleansing and massacre”,
    because war in Bosnia was already done long before 1999 (war finished in 1995).

    • Replies: @Gorgeous George
    , @sarz
  20. Hail says: • Website

    the Tiananmen Square Massacre Hoax

    a year or two ago I happened to come across a short article by journalist Jay Matthews entitled “The Myth of Tiananmen” that completely upended that apparent reality.

    According to Matthews the infamous massacre had likely never happened, but was merely a media artifact produced by confused Western reporters and dishonest propaganda, a mistaken belief that had quickly become embedded in our standard media storyline, endlessly repeated by so many ignorant journalists that they all eventually believed it to be true.

    the protesting students had all left Tiananmen Square peacefully, just as the Chinese government had always maintained.

    the bulk of the mainstream media had fallen for an apparent hoax.

    This is like saying the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre was a hoax because most of the deaths occurred overnight, past midnight, no longer St. Bartholomew’s Day, ergo “the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre” was a Hoax. Throwing the baby out with a technicality.

    Checking the Jay Matthews story, I see this:

    Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances.

    The Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city

  21. thordaddy says:

    And now back to the local scene… There is no “there” there.

  22. Nils says:

    Many things to discuss…

    Regarding SARS inability to spread further, that’s why the glycoprotein 120 was added: it’s an external protein they borrowed from HIV and CRISPR’d onto the Covid-19.

    Interesting enough by including this mechanism in the novel virus they have perhaps laid the ground for future AIDS type syndromes in those who get the virus or some variant of it. That’s another topic deserving it’s own crowd funded public research.

    Much of the suddenly far reaching effects of this novel virus derive from the advent of CRISP technology and the ability to fuse different parts of virus into one. Of course, zoonotic transmission still needs to occur hence all the special grants to Wuhan Institute and North Carolina in doing this type of research, going out and collecting the special virus out of bat shit 600 miles away from Wuhan in caves in remote China, and feeding it to pigs and chimps who die and the process is repeated until a stable virus is developed.

    Interesting enough… Dr Fauci is an expert on HIV and specifically glycoprotein 120. He’s worked to run private trial tests while working in the government probably for his Fort Detrick buddies.

    Everyone reading this article and still intrigued for more information out to check out two key players that researching the origins of the virus and it’s likely bioengineered origins:

    George Webb on YouTube

    Dr. Paul Cottrell on YouTube

    This virus has links to Fauci, research at Fort Detrick, as well as research carried out in North Carolina and Wuhan that was paid for by grants from Fauci while running major government groups.

    It appears part of this operation utilized the NATO transport network for transporting deadly diseases and nuclear material. In fact, one such courier was in Wuhan as an American cyclist for the military games…

    But I digress.

    The blowback part Ron mentions being the consequence of stupidity from the government are possible but I think unlikely. If you follow parallel developments in geopolitics and, specifically, finance (not withstanding all of Bill Gates work with companies to have a vaccine ready to go…), you’ll see perhaps the makings of a grand conspiracy to (1) cement the strength of the dollar and (2) sequester Chinese economic growth and power all at once.

    For this to work most of the government would not know what’s going on and that probably includes Trump. Plus, what better way to hide culpability than to inflict a wound on yourself?

    For links to articles discussing this topic see below:

    https://thesaker.is/strengthening-the-us-dollar-comments-on-ramin-mazaheri/

  23. Mike-SMO says:

    Everyone is enjoying the screaming and paranoia but China (East Asia) has been producing new and “wonderful” diseases for several thousand years. They used to have bacterial variations but in the last few centuries have moved to designer viruses.

    South China has wall-to-wall rice paddies where wild and migratory animals feed, drink and sh*t with farm animals under the care of a billion or so humans with primitive concepts of sanitation and minimal, to no, modern healthcare, so “rare” or “unlikely” bug mutations and species “jumps” are just a matter of time. The wild birds of China Summer in Siberia and Alaska with all the other birds of the world. The “Real” Globalism…..

    The appearance of Corona variants in Kazhakstan, Iran, the Gulf States, and Israeli ckickens, or the appearance of “pig flu” in Mexico, or the Spanish Flu (1918?) in Kansas, all under major bird migratory routes, should not be too much of a surprise. Even if a US, UN or Chinese agency finds it. Be aware that this used to happen before Boeing and AirBus joined the game.

    Be careful cleaning the poop off your windshield and/or yard furniture.

    Damn flying dinosaurs are dangerous. If you find some poop with a “made in China” label, call the authorities. They will love the warning about the poison from a flying Chinese Communist dragon.

    • Agree: Gleimhart Mantooso
  24. Anonymous[785] • Disclaimer says:

    Tl;dr

    The coronavirus is serial! Thooper serial! Look at all these in depth political analyses and ignore the facts in plain view!

    Blowback is a particularly telling choice of word, since I remember Noam Chomsky using the same term. He used it to add weight to the official 9/11 story by claiming the events were a direct result of US foreign policy, which re-enforced the Muslim terrorist angle and stopped people from looking for the real culprits.

  25. utu says:

    Ron, when exactly did you republish the Metallicman’s blog? The following seems to imply that it was in late January:

    These were the thoughts that came to mind during the last week of January…..

    At that point,….a very long article by an American ex-pat living in China who called himself “Metallicman” ….

    and the date under the title is January 27 but the first comment was on February 14.

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  26. Anon[605] • Disclaimer says:

    Another great installment in the American Pravda series. I use to work in the federal government and always wondered why employees of the Nationals Archives* needed a top secret U.S. government clearance and why employees of Presidential libraries needed to have the same security clearance as a nuclear submarine commander (top secret- sensitive compartmented information). What secrets could there possibly be from 60 years ago?? Then it dawned on me that it could never be known by the general public how their country behaves toward other countries and why and how we go to war. We would lose all faith in our government.

    I have only one small correction:

    [Charles Lieber] was seized by the FBI in an early-morning raid on his Cambridge home and dragged off in shackles, potentially facing decades of federal imprisonment.

    He lives in a wooded suburban neighborhood in Lexington, MA, not in the city of Cambridge.

    * https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/565429100

    • Agree: Ber
    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  27. Vaterland says:

    On the one hand a bio-warfare attack on China is something I can absolutely see the American elites post 9/11 do. Their track-record speaks for itself.

    There have also been significant shifts in Europe’s alignment, on which US global dominance critically depends: the continuation of Northstream 2 against the explicit wishes of the Americans, 5 G expansion and Huawei cooperation in the European market, plans of replacing NATO with a European army (talks on the fringe of the right about a defense pact with Russia), the Belt and Road trillion dollar project which has its better European name as “The New Silk Road”. Eurasian integration goes directly against the global dominance strategy of the US Empire. Europe is also now caught between an intense and visible propaganda warfare of the USA and China/Russia.

    And there were also the proxy-war in Ukraine and the refugee crisis: the latter at minimum a fallout of US-Israeli wars in the Middle East and the Zionist assault against Libya; yet not unlikely itself a direct assault against Europe. And not only Willy Wimmer, closest adviser to our old chancellor Helmut Kohl, strongly suspected as much already back in 2015. Wimmer had been part of several war games in Langley in his time in the German government, quite clearly reasoning that in modern warfare you cannot initiate a conflict without knowing where the refugees will go – it is part of the planning process.

    There also exists this paper:
    https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/strategic-engineered-migration-weapon-war

    On the other hand we must recognize the long term and massive investments of for example Blackrock and Vanguard into China; the ambitions to liberalize Chinese society and further open their economy for foreign, especially US investments; the attempts of Zionism to set up shop in China; the key role of Israel in the Belt and Road project and the admiration the Chinese have for Jews and their material success.

    If it was a bio-warfare attack and if the ambition is to lock the USA and China in a new Cold War with potential proxy wars, then Americas financial and Jewish elite, which so very much dominate the deep state neocons, must be of the opinion that their profits will not be affected by it.

    And if it was the long-term plan of Zionism and much of Americas financial, largely Jewish, elite to shift their power-base from the USA which they have effectively subjugated to the less secured China, then a bio-warfare attack would hardly be a smart move to keep the transition as quiet as possible.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @refl
  28. Seraphim says:

    @if American biowarfare analysts were considering a coronavirus attack against China, isn’t it quite possible they would have said to themselves that since SARS never significantly leaked back into the US or Europe, we’d similarly remain insulated from the coronavirus? Obviously, such an analysis was foolish and mistaken, but would it have seemed so implausible at the time?

    Albert Einstein: “Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results”.
    Moreover, in establishing whether a crime was committed, the criminal investigation has to establish first that there was a motive, the means and the opportunity to commit the crime. All these criteria are satisfied in this case pointing to a biological attack against China and its allies.
    The possibility of biowarfare (and its desirability) was unequivocally formulated in September 2000 when the ‘Project for the New American Century’ released “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”, a report that promotes “the belief that America should seek to preserve and extend its position of global leadership by maintaining the preeminence of U.S. military forces.” The report also states, “advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool”.
    The first bioweapons research program was initiated in America by Sir Frederick Banting with corporate sponsorship in 1940.
    From Wikipedia (no secrets): In 1942 “U.S. Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson requested that the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) undertake consideration of U.S. biological warfare. In response the NAS formed a committee, the War Bureau of Consultants (WBC), which issued a report on the subject in February 1942.The report, among other items, recommended the research and development of an offensive biological weapons program.
    The British, and the research undertaken by the WBC, pressured the U.S. to begin biological weapons research and development and in November 1942 U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt officially approved an American biological weapons program. In response to the information provided by the WBC, Roosevelt ordered Stimson to form the War Research Service (WRS). Established within the Federal Security Agency, the WRS’ stated purpose was to promote “public security and health”, but, in reality, the WRS was tasked with coordinating and supervising the U.S. biological warfare program. In the spring of 1943 the U.S. Army Biological Warfare Laboratories were established at Fort (then Camp) Detrick in Maryland”.
    The Chinese read their James Bond: “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action”.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: annamaria
  29. It doesn’t make sense to me that the US would fly drones over chinese pig farms half way around the world in order to infect half the pigs in China with African swine flu.
    Smithfield is the largest producer of pork in the US. Smithfield is owned by a Chinese firm. So China is making up for their lack of domestic pork by buying their own US pork. How would this risky venture benefit the US? Yet this was the accusation labelled against the US by many Chinese. With zero proof.

    The timing of this pandemic is very beneficial to the deep state, and the MSM is hyping the heck out of it; and the CDC et al are pumping up the numbers to make it seems as bad as possible. It’s like they WANT a global pandemic. To crash the market and make DJT look bad? That is what the Biden for drooling pres campaign videos are hyping already.

    If there is a germ war going on, it is China doing it to its communist shit-hole self. I don’t know why anybody trades with them. The Chinese state literally kills Uyghurs and Falun Gong and steals their organs, but they have favored nation trading status? wtf

    • Replies: @anon
  30. Octavian says: • Website

    Interesting take.

    It is fairly congruent with my own writeup from a few weeks back. Although I did not go so far as to definitively endorse any particular theory. The idea of this all being an American strike on China is the interesting hypothesis to me and fits my understanding of how America’s geopolitical toolbox might work best. There is also a case to be made that the blowback stateside is a feature not a bug.

    The United States could come out ahead in terms of the great game with China. But only if it can play its cards correctly.

    Ultimately, what enough people think about this whole situation is what will define outcomes and right now things are on track for the bulk of the Chinese population to think that this is an American attack and for a significant number of Americans to believe that this is either accidental or deliberate Chinese action.

    I think those popular attitudes are very valuable to their respective governments.

    It’s not helpful to onshore blame.

    Thanks for another engaging article!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  31. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:

    Devil’s advocacy is always an important intellectual activity, but you seemed to have pretty much pointed out the hole in your grand theory yourself.

    If we’re going to imagine the US gov’t apparatus is competent enough to start the virus in China, one would have to presume (if their collective IQ’s approach anywhere near 90) that they would also set up for the contingency that it might come to the US too.

    Imagining otherwise is akin to thinking the US top brass have the intelligence of some of those bonehead crooks who sometimes make the news for their stupid (and funny) attempts at crime. The US top brass might be dumb, but c’mon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn5CvDgaZSc

  32. Miro23 says:

    I think we can safely assume that Lieber’s arrest by the FBI had been prompted by the coronavirus epidemic, but anything more is mere speculation. Those now accusing China of having created the coronavirus might surely suggest that our intelligence agencies discovered that the Harvard professor had been personally involved with that deadly research. But I think a far more likely possibility is that Lieber began to wonder whether the epidemic in China might not be the result of an American biowarfare attack, and was perhaps a little too free in voicing his suspicions, thereby drawing the wrath of our national security establishment.

    Or alternatively, who would a laboratory whistleblower turn to other than a respected Harvard professor, who would understand the technical aspects, and who he may actually already have known and trusted?

    Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iran’s ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?

    An irresistible add-on like Larry Silverstein’s extra insurance cover and payout.

    One intriguing aspect of the situation was that almost from the first moment that reports of the strange new epidemic in China reached the international media, a large and orchestrated campaign had been launched on numerous websites and Social Media to identify the cause as a Chinese bioweapon carelessly released in its own country.

    Again similar to 9/11 with an instant media explanation trumpeted around the world (no investigation necessary).

    It therefore appears that elements of the Defense Intelligence Agency were aware of the deadly viral outbreak in Wuhan more than a month before any officials in the Chinese government itself. Unless our intelligence agencies have pioneered the technology of precognition, I think this may have happened for the same reason that arsonists have the earliest knowledge of future fires.

    Agreed – they really messed it up – and it would be a world class irony if it was their own virus that wrecks the US economy.

  33. mike99588 says:

    The Chinese embassy in Serbia is an interesting side story. However, as much as I disagreed with why we were there, another Clinton abuse of office, China was apparently participating as a combatant providing crucial signals support to the Serbian military. Topped off by handling sensitive F117 residuals that we wanted destroyed. Or perhaps only some of US, given various conflicts of interests in both Clinton globalism and sharing/planned obsolescence by arms makers….

    CV19
    The “US did it” is a possibility that certainly should be addressed in the continuum of many possibilities. I certainly would look for linkages between BHO administration/Gates/academia/DeepGreen/China. China certainly does not act innocent, covering up the early patients’ stories and physical evidence a la our JFK scale.

    As for US incompetence, the globalist media favors CCP; liberalism; Big Tech; Big Medicine; the Democratic Party; along with the O/Clintonista FDA and CDC, have done everything possible to hamstring accurate CV19 information amongst the citizenry, and specifically against Trump. Huge TDS.

    Months of near total shutdown on IV vitamin C, bowel tolerance dosing of vitamin C, high dose vitamin D, quercetin and orthomolecular cocktails for prophylaxis and treatment. As well as censorship and savage attacks on people trying to evolve the HCQ+AZM+zinc cocktail.

  34. A few loose thoughts, firstly that China accusation is one of the most egregious exhibitions of chutzpah by the western government & media.
    Trial by media, if you will.
    We now have ignoramuses spouting that “China has exterminated 21 million virus carriers” despite rational economic explanation of the phenomenon https://www.tweaktown.com/news/71555/21-million-chinese-phone-users-vanished-not-attributed-to-coronavirus/index.html

    Prof Lieber’s greatest “crime” is probably because he is responsible for saving untold numbers of potential infectees, at least in the early stages
    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2004/10/sensor-detects-identifies-single-viruses/
    ie his work on virus detection & identification is why the Chinese government was able to deal with the pandemic so quickly & effectively.

    A bioweapon does Not have to have a high bodycount to work as intended; weapons of mass destruction – even nukes (despite western brainwashing that they “ended WWII”) – have very few military applications and primarily target civilians.
    Their main effect is disruption & demoralisation; in this Covid-19 has succeeded beyond possible expectations.

    The USA has patents for coronaviruses going back to 2003, post-SARS:
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US7220852B1/en
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US10130701B2/en
    https://patents.justia.com/patent/10130701
    Whilst these are Not the Covid-19 variant, it goes to show that they can indeed be vat-grown.
    Even should the current coronavirus be a natural mutation, it can still be weaponised.
    Many of the most fearsome pathogens such as smallpox, anthrax and the bubonic plague are also natural-born killers. Supposedly they have been eradicated from the face of the planet, safely existing only in military laboratories around the globe, for research purposes of course.

    The circumstantial evidence that Cov19 is a bioattack is enormous, and the likelihood of US origin is pretty damning. The US government will be desperate to point fingers everywhere else, and is using the tried&tested trial by media +obfuscation, rather than logic and reasoning.
    If hard proof of US culpability manifests then the appropriate level of China’s response will be “nuclear” (I don’t mean actual nukes, but something like dumping US treasury bonds).

    • Replies: @annamaria
  35. Meanwhile, the disease naturally leaks back into the US

    How?

    Is there specific information tracing this “leak” to China?

    Is it possible — is it even conceivable — that the same logic that you detailed to tip the scales in favor of US biowarfare against China can also suggest that the bioweapon did not “naturally leak” into the US but was deliberately deployed against the people of the United States?

    Follow the money: the goal of (speculated) biowar against China was, as you wrote, not to kill but to economically devastate a formidable competitor-turned-adversary (same thing the US has been doing to Iran by sanctions since at least 1995 with Clinton’s executive order, made permanent by the D’Amato Iran Libya Sanctions Act).

    The goal of biowar against the people of the USA is to cripple the economy, to Weimarize American commerce and enable those left standing to scoop up the life’s work and investment of millions of entrepreneurs for pennies on the dollar, with the added travesty that those left standing are supplied with dollars by the very taxpayers whose assets are being snapped up!

    • Agree: annamaria, bjondo
    • Replies: @Derer
  36. The Chinese government lied and continues to lie about the virus.

    The Wuhan leadership knew in mid December and arrested doctors who leaked the info and destroyed lab records.

    Xi likely knew no later than January 1.

    There are thousands of wet markets in southern China and SE Asia, but only the one a short walk from the Wuhan Institute of Virology allegedly was the source.

    Chinese researchers worked in America to develop this exact virus, adding HIV to SARS, and left in 2015 to work in Wuhan.

    Chinese national was arrested in 2018 in Detroit while carrying live SARS and MERS viruses.

    Chinese scientists working in Canada were kicked out in 2019 for shipping stolen biological material to Wuhan.

    It was developed in the lab, but I suspect the release was accidental. The cover up and letting the virus spread around the world was intentional.

    Xi is fighting to maintain power. He might not succeed……

    The US government did fund the research of those Chinese researchers at UNC. They continued to fund them in China.

    China’s economy had already stalled. Then it lost the trade war. Banks were failing. Foreign companies were moving out. Xi used the opportunity of the virus to avoid the disaster of economic collapse and to hurt the rest of the world…… after the Century of Humiliation, China would rather take the rest of the world down rather than go down alone.

  37. @ Ron Unz,

    Although nearby East Asian nations such as South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore had been at greatest risk and were among the first infected, their competent and energetic responses….

    Japan’s reaction to the Corona virus is/was not competent and energetic, unless you want to count the way how the Japanese government dealt with the cruise ship ‘Diamond Princess’ as a resounding success. Send army recruits without protection to the ship, start with 10 patients, quarantine the entire ship, end up with 765 infected individuals, and then send people [tourists] home. I live on one of the 4 big islands and there is no lock down here. Below is a picture I took just now [what they refer to as a Junior High School], Tuesday, 21 April, 2020 ~16:00 P.M. fro the window of my apartment.

    Judge for yourself.

    No masks. No distance. No governmental guidance. Japan is run by bureaucrats and it shows.

    Thanks for the article. It was a pleasure to read.

  38. Hail says: • Website

    According to this reconstruction, the Chinese government first became aware of the seriousness of this public health crisis on Jan. 14th, but delayed taking any major action until Jan. 20th, a period of time during which the number of infections greatly multiplied.

    This also fits in with an alternative explanation, which is admittedly wild but which I would say is considerably less wild than the bioweapon-blowback theory:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/for-want-of-a-nail/#comment-3847340

    J.Ross has proposed […] this whole thing may be a Chinese Communist Party ‘Hoax,’ in the sense that while the ‘new’ virus is real (there are always ‘new viruses’), the reaction was at least 1000x what was necessary to deal with a bad flu strain and that China played it up to scare people, especially the US. China’s actions (mass shutdown) triggered a series of events that scared everyone. But none of the data we have corroborate the Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus fears. So what was this?

    [MORE]

    [This] theory would have it that the CCP’s sudden about-face on The New Virus — a literally overnight about-face [Jan. 20] from “not a big deal” to “shut down a region with 60 million people, cue the Virus Apocalypse Movie film reels and the hazmat suits” — was a calculated bid to hurt the US and to hurt Western economies. By the time of the unexpected about-face, they had 100% certainty it had spread to the US and elsewhere, AND that these countries had the kind of media that would go into hysteria mode AND had the technological capacity to do “testing.”

    This theory would attribute to the CCP a calculated bid to create a false virus panic with plausible deniability (“so sorry! we didn’t have the data! it was early; we reacted the best we could; and hey even the highly-neutral WHO are calling us heroes”) which would scare people and trigger a series of events that throw the US and its satellites in Western Europe into chaos, making the latter easier pickings for Belt & Road and Huawi colonization, etc.; countries dazed by a mass-hysteria-recession are suddenly beggars, not choosers.

    The Chinese Communist Party’s calculation would have been, on that fateful ‘about-face’ evening, that the West was much less ready to handle a panic than Communist China would be. It was a risk to them but it worked.

    If this theory is right, in fact, the CCP succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. A case of the dog finally catching the car bumper; what the heck now? The results for China’s regime itself are unclear, given that the cynical triggering of mass-hysteria-recessions in major trading partners equates to a drought that sinks all boats.

    The alternative, and many would say more plausible theory, is that the Chinese Communist Party panicked, too, and reacted highly irrationally, taking a sledgehammer to a handful of mosquitoes and then salting the earth where the flattened bodies of the mosquitoes landed. Or a synthesis of the two may be true. It’s hard to disentangle motivations. But the unexplained ‘about-face’ is real and needs explanation.

    • Replies: @utu
  39. In the end, does it matter? Even if we take the more innocuous version at face value: the virus had nothing to do with bioweapons and simply mutated naturally from bats to humans, the response of the West has been utterly atrocious either way.

    We’re now seeing a Yellow Peril 2.0 campaign ramped up at astonishing speed. The so-called “liberal class”, posturing as tolerant and sophisticated, is now trying to run on Trump’s right flank on China. Joe Biden’s campaign ads on China are Cold War-style cariactures.

    I’ve been seeing the consequences play out even in neutral places. I frequent quite a few technology-related subreddits and the unmitigated hatred of China is truly a sight to be hold. Even the most tangential topics get hijacked by zealots. For all the talk about how the media’s power is supposedly dimishing, the cattle is still very much influenced by what the MSM tells them to think.

    On a related note, I find this article to be great: https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/20/trump-media-chinese-lab-coronavirus-conspiracy/

    I hope Unz can syndicate some stories from The Grayzone, which I find to be the only publication on the left which isn’t in thrall with the DNC. Even Democracy Now! and Jacobin are pushing state department scare stories on China. The total collapse of the American left over the last 10-15 years is a greatly undertold story.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Joey Pastrami
    , @Anonymous
  40. utu says:

    The alleged report by National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI) is the most damning piece of evidence if the report does exist. Here is the official denial:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pentagon-bashes-bombshell-abc-report-denies-u-s-intel-identified-coronavirus-threat-in-november/
    Colonel R. Shane Day, a medical doctor and director of the NCMI, issued a rare public statement to deny the existence of the report.

    “As a matter of practice, the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters,” Day said. “However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists.”

    So we are in the “Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.” territory.

    What is important is not that Channel 12 (in Israel) followed the ABC article but that it added an extra bit of information which was not in the original ABC article that the report was passed to Israel and that the IDF held a first discussion about it still in November.

    Fooling some ABC reporter by offering her Trump damaging leak that Trump knew but did nothing could be easy but getting a confirmation from Israel where presumably sources in the IDF had to be involved it does not seem as a simple get Trump operation.

    • Agree: Jean-Marie L.
  41. Pft says:

    I don’t think people understand the extent of collaboration between US and China including Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) , It actually goes back to the early 1980’s with cooperation between USAMIID and WIV on Hanta Viruses. More recently extensive collaboration between China and US on gain of function studies and virus hunting, especially with corona viruses from bats. Ralph Baric UNC and Shih Zhengli from Wuhan have published papers together . Funding of joint studies from USAMIID, NIAID, DARPA. NIH, etc. George Gao the Director of Chinese CDC participated in the Event 201 simulation. There are many more ties. Google Wuhan Biolake -a lot of global biotech companies there.

    I dont think anyone can know the extent of the disease in China. After all a super spreading virus from as early as November circulating in heavily polluted Wuhan, a city more populated than NYC , which was also a major domestic and international transportation hub with millions leaving the city for other destinations in China and internationally in the weeks before Wuhan was locked down just before the New Year when everything shuts down for 2 weeks anyways. And yet the disease only spreads to Europe and US but not to any degree outside Hubei province? Not believable.

    And as for US deaths from COVID-19 being undercounted. Where is the evidence for that. CDC has basically informed everyone to count a case as COVID based on suspicions (no positive test needed). If a heart disease patient of 80 years old has a heart attack while also having pneumonia its COVID-19. And those tests, they haven’t been validated. There are many different tests. We don’t know the specificity of any of them. Very likely there are many false positives. Also if a hospital can collect more money from medicare with a covid-19 diagnosis, guess whats going to be diagnosed more often.

    So I am skeptical.

    Now 30,000 deaths attributed to covid in 2 weeks is a lot. In a normal 2 week period there would be 110,000 total deaths. So have there been 140,000 deaths in total, or just 110, 000 deaths with 30, 000 called Covid deaths? I dont know.

    I actually expect more deaths than normal even without covid. Suicides. More deaths from heart attacks and stroke due to financial stress and people delaying treatment out of fear of getting the virus. More cancer deaths for same reason. Increased alcoholism and obesity should trigger more deaths in the next few months.

    One has to consider this an event on an international scale on a par with 9/11 in magnitude and impact on freedoms. Curious how WHO declares pandemic on 3/11. Coincidence I guess.

    Lot of players in the Virus Industrial Complex stand to make a lot of money in coming years as a result. The Globalists will push through digital ID and mandatory vaccination for international travelers if not everyone and the Global Health Security Alliance (GHSA) will be strengthened. The right will get tighter immigration controls and more bailouts for Big Business. The left gets a taste of universal income and perhaps medicare for all (2009 pandemic helped get Obamacare approved). And the technocrats will get more toys for the Surveillance and Tracking Industry with Big Data monitoring all the chipped individuals health among other things. Cashless society to minimize virus spread pushed through so all transactions can be logged. Everyone wins but the little guy.

    And you can bet the Greenies will capitalize on this

    Since the Virus Industrial Complex took over the Public Health Agencies in the 1970’s we have had endless Virus Scares, Swine Flu in 1976, Hepatitis B (1978) , AIDS in 1980,
    MS-ME/CFS outbreaks (1984), HPV/Cervical Cancer (1984), HHV-6 (1986) , SARS (2003) , Bird Flu (2005), Swine Flu (2009) , MERs (2012) Zika (2014) Measles (2014) Ebola (2015) and now COVID-2019

    See a pattern here?

    We got virus finders/makers in academia and security /military agencies in the interest of biowarfare defense and science working with vaccine and drug companies who receive funds to develop treatments for these newly found/made viruses, in some cases before any human has been infected. Reminds me of the time when those working for anti-virus software companies were suspected of generating computer viruses to sell more software and be fastest to provide the patch (since they created the virus). In any case, certainly a lot of interlocking conflict of interests among members of the Virus Industrial Complex.

  42. BPVegas says:

    The United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) of Ft. Detrick fame has been partnered with the Wuhan Virlogy Lab since 1981. The Wuhan Lab has also been partnered with college basketball powerhouse Duke University. Check out the Lab’s website. This facilityis a diagnostic lab not a bioweapons lab. The USA has bioweapons labs located on the Chinese and Russian borders in Kazakhstan. Oh what a tangled web we weave….

  43. Excellent summary of the anectodal evidence.

    I just want to say that we need to distinguish between conspiracy theory and conspiracy hypothesis.

    The out of Wuhan lab is a conspiracy hypothesis, or much closer to it. There is no plausible benefit to the Chinese, and saying ‘a disgruntled employee may have dun it to get at dem dictators’ is just speculation in the sky.

    On the other hand the anectodal evidence for it being US action – the obvious benefit, the time and place of the outbreak, the military games team, the precognition, as well as how the CDC is not tracing patient zero in the US (if it was in China in Nov, surely it could have been in the US then too, and then the whole propaganda story falls apart).. Even the US crying wolf again, after so many times, is almost enough for me.

    They are all anecdotal of course, but perfectly in line with the MO and historical practice of the US government.

    I now thank my friends when they call me a conspiracy theorist loon, as I point out that Russiagate, Skripal, and so many of the government lines are pure conspiracy hypotheses – one step further away from Kansas than my take!

  44. Ron here reveals himself as a paid agent of the Chinese government.

    One of many China shills who are popping up in “alt media” as well as the MSM.

    Disappointing, but as they say, never trust a Jew.

    • Agree: Gleimhart Mantooso
  45. refl says:

    Thanks for this first attempt to dig through the growing tale of corona. However, as we are still in the fog of war, there can be no more then a preliminary assessment.

    My take is still that Corona is far less of a threat then commonly believed, and that it has been deliberately saddled with diverse agendas, so in any countries the leadership have no interest in telling the truth.
    1) I think there is sufficient proof that need not be repeated, and
    2) it is better for everyones’ mental health not to believe in killer viruses that force us to abdicate even our most basic freedoms.

    I believe that either a) the Chinese leadership thought that they were being attacked and undertook their lockdown in good faith, or b) they played an outright GAMBIT to force western countries into their own, more economically damaging lockdowns. The clue would be that China is so strong that it can weather the blow, while Europe and to a lesser extend the US cannot.

    The director of the Chinese CDC, Dr Gao was part of Event 201 and studied in Oxford. Are there dual loyalties in China? And then, in which direction?
    Possibly, something minor was indeed released as a bioweapon, before, calculably, western government incompetence and hysteria took over. I also believe that Israel used corona as a screen for biowarfare-targeted killings in Iran, whose case is definitely a story apart.
    The Russian lockdown can be explained by the serious assumption that if they did not lock down they would be accused as the authors of a biowarfare attack on the US. At this point, antirussian hostility in the West is so severe that they had to comply!

    The coordinated actions across opposed political systems CAN be explained, and it does not take a nutter to do it.

    Now, let’s see, if this comment gets through.

    • Agree: antitermite
    • Replies: @utu
  46. Jorge Videla [AKA "no bat soup for you"] says:

    and the hong kong flu, the asian flu, SARS classic, H5N1?

    think horses not zebras ron. densely populated country with disgusting and satanic dietary practices.

    maybe a country where people eat dogs should be dusted with anthrax.

    • Replies: @Ber
  47. Excellent analysis on the workings of American propaganda and disinformation war in the context of COVID-19.

  48. John Wear says:

    Dr. Andrew Kaufman, MD says there is no proven test for COVID-19. The PCR test given only tests for genetic material and not for the COVID-19 virus. Dr. Kaufman’s interview is at
    https://truthcomestolight.com/2020/04/10/dr-andy-kaufman-on-understanding-what-the-covid-19-tests-are-all-about-why-the-lockdown-has-nothing-to-do-with-a-pandemic/.

  49. Biff says:

    The majority of the American public still believe that a small group of Islamic fundamentalists wielding only box cutters atomized the World Trade Center into dust – in a cartoonish act of sorcery. If the lie is so big it has to become believable – that amount of cognitive dissonance is simply just too much to bear. An already duped population of such magnitude doesn’t have much of a chance of coming out of this kind of stupor, especially under the bubble of the most powerful propaganda machine in the history of propaganda, therefore, I don’t think this story is going to go anywhere.

    • Replies: @flashlight joe
  50. Hi Ron! Your article for me is a breath of fresh air! Amidst what you accurately call the fog of war it has been very hard to discern precisely what is going on in regards to this virus situation. It’s been extremely difficult to assert the “truth” or the “red pill” as some call it when it comes to this pandemic. For that reason in fact, I would caution everyone that cares about having a well calibrated “perception” sensor to tread with extreme caution when it comes to this topic, as there isn’t nearly enough evidence in any direction to assume one theory over another. Faithfully adopting any one theory at the moment can only lead you to become the equivalent of a 9/11 truther (the kind that obsesses about missiles, physics, instead of the paper trail leading directly to Israel and Saudi Arabia).

    Having said that there are just too many statistical improbabilities to simply brush aside the Bioweapon possibility. I know quite a few influential figures in the alternative media have unequivocally rejected all Bioweapon theories (specially the theory that the US/Israel could ever conspire to spread a bioweapon) which is why I am very glad to see someone of your Intellectual authority provide a credible well thought-out case supporting this increasingly unpopular position (even in alternative circles). I get it, there is ZERO evidence to show the US/Israel or even China are behind covid-19. But there is equally ZERO evidence to support the official story (which is completely ridiculous until they provide more details) about the guy that supposedly ate the covid bat.

    With that disclaimer I will freely speculate below but keep in mind this is all conjecture:

    1. Anyone that claims is “impossible” for the US to let lose a bioweapon that would destroy the US economy and kill Americans for the sake of hurting their “perceived” enemies more needs to seriously examine EVERYTHING we know about the rulers of the American empire. The first obvious question is who exactly rules the American empire? Are they righteous rulers that make decisions based on what is best for the American people? The answer to this question is a clear and resounding NO. The rulers of America follow a religion that states anyone that is not part of their tribe is “cattle” and dispensable. On this grounds alone the Rulers of America would have very little issue releasing a virus that kills (mostly) “cattle” Americans. And then comes to “why would they tank their own economy” objection. To this objection I’ll simply point out that AMERICA IS RULED through financial coercion. A crisis is very good for the rulers of America because they get to FURTHER consolidate their power over America. Gaining more power over America, hurting your geopolitical rivals and ultimately using the panic and confusion to pass draconian and more authoritarian rules are all INCENTIVES for American elites to release a bioweapon.

    Lastly, to everyone that says it’s impossible for the American elites to tank their economy and/or kill Americans in order to achieve a political objective has forgotten about 9/11! Our current rulers in Tel-Aviv paid a few saudi mercenaries to fly two airplanes into the twin towers to kill a few thousands of people in order to go to war! Of course the atrocity does not end there. A lot more Americans died as consequence of 9/11, even more were affected economically and even a lot more lost civil liberties and standing in American society. Right then and there you have a blatant and relatively recent event that almost word for word matches the consequences of this virus. Considering this as a possible escalation of tactics by the US/Israel against their enemies is a possibility. The US did drop the nuke of an innocent, already defeated enemy. What makes anyone so sure this is beyond their “moral code”

    2.China decides to strongly stick by Iran, suddenly the Hong Kong protest springs out of control, 50 percent of their pork is wiped out by a weird disease and now of course, the mother of all “unforeseen” events kick starts a cascade of negative consequences for China.

    This is by far the most alarming set of “coincidences” of all. I remember last year reading the Iran-China saga, as the Chinese refused to stop buying Iranian oil even as Japan stopped buying oil after a Japanese tanker “coincidentally” was hit by a bomb in the Persian gulf. Soon enough (if I am recalling correctly) a strange disease wipes out 50% of Chinese pork causing possible food insecurity. Then came the Hong Kong riots that although started for very legit reasons by the people of Hong Kong, soon enough had full on CIA spooks speaking in the US congress, attacking people on the streets of Hong Kong! Lastly against all odds these horrible events are somewhat weathered China and suddenly we have a pandemic that not only damages China in the world stage, but serves as the perfect excuse to possibly sanction, attack and possibly destabilize china.

    Maybe I am completely paranoid or skeptical, but what are the chances of such a string of events? Is there some data I am not privy to that can explain some of these coincidences? Is there something to Chinese cultural norms that could explain these strange viruses literally wrecking their economy and political stability? What are the chances all of these viruses occur in a very short period and their severity and consequences directly correlated to China’s defiance of US orthodoxy on Iran/US hegemony?

    Unlike some people here, I do not share the opinion that the Chinese government is some sort of Angel or ideological ally. They are a government that ultimately acts on it’s interests and it’s full of flaws (including exerting degrees of tyranny on their own people). Having said that you don’t have to be a communist to notice how strange this sequence of events truly is. Bad things keep happening to China as it opposes US Hegemony. It might even be statistically impossible for some of these things to happen by “chance”, but maybe China is just really unlucky, right?

    • Agree: utu
  51. ” 1999 NATO air war against Serbia to protect Bosnian muslims … ”

    It was actually war over Kosovo albanians .

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @anon
  52. Sean says:

    But I do think that a careful exploration of previous Sino-American clashes over the last couple of decades may provide some useful insight into the relative credibility of those two governments as well as that of our own media.

    During the Korean war, China used their Cats Paw North to invade the South then the Chinese army intervened under the pretense of being volunteers. Although Chinese ground troops were not directly involved, Vietnam was otherwise a rerun of Korea with China not only defeating the US but forcing it to cease isolating China. Carter issued a presidential order for officials to aid Chinese growth., and within a few decades as the internal unrest Western pundits predicted failed to amount to much, it became obvious that China’s growth was at the expense of the workers of the US made jobless and suffering deaths of despair not least by illegal synthetic opioids from China. But then, by the begining of new millennium all manufacturing was in China, including the burgeoning fortunes of the already wealthy, who rose on a high tide of inequality. If history was any guide a new Gilded Age must end with a visit from the Four Horsemen. Pressaged by the appearance of the SARS-CoV virus eighteen years before, SARS-CoV-2 appears likely to end China’s run of successes, because of the disruption it has caused to the US.

    “The closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2 is a bat virus named RaTG13, “However, RaTG13 was sampled from a different province of China (Yunnan) to where COVID-19 first appeared and the level of genome sequence divergence between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 is equivalent to an average of 50 years (and at least 20 years) of evolutionary change.”

    The important thing about the SARS-CoV-2 virus is not its lethality, which is about an order of magnitude less than the original SARS-CoV of 2002, but rather SARS-CoV-2’s extreme transmissibility which is two orders of magnitude greater than its predecessor’s. Anthony Fauci warned the incoming US government administration in January 2017 of a newly mutated coronavirus with extreme transmissibility and, apart from the greatly reduced lethality of the massively more contagious SARS-CoV-2 virus, that is exactly what happened.

    Unlike other nations, China had had no advance warning of the nature or existence of the deadly new disease, and therefore faced unique obstacles.

    They had the WHO and Fauci’s public statements. Much more usefully China had the 2002 epidemic, caused by SARS-CoV which originated in China that year. In Singapore, there were 238 cases and 33 deaths from the SARS outbreak, in 2015 the worlds largest MERS-CoV outbreak occurred in South Korea, and only the other year Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said it was only a matter of time before Singapore had its first MERS-CoV case, so they had to be well prepared. These countries were all set up and waiting to eradicate a disease just like COVID-19.

    A decision by elements of our national security establishment to wage biological warfare in hopes of maintaining American world power would certainly have been an extremely reckless act

    Excuse me? With the disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus having a puny death rate yet colossal infectiousness a centralised authoritarian state like China would be relatively speaking best able to suppress it. A bioweapon would be tested on Whites as well as Chinese before being released. There is no way in Hell that they would not understand that releasing the SARS-CoV-2 virus in China would result in it sweeping through the US.

  53. If an “out-of-control disease epidemic occurring in the Wuhan area” back in November 2019 was the same corona virus, then toss the idea it was intentionally timed to mess with the Chinese New Year in 2020. But then figure the deaths in China have been greatly under reported. Furthermore, China may well have allowed carriers to travel abroad, especially to USA once the outbreak was well under way.

    However, as regards the whole biocrime aspect of the corona virus pandemic we really cannot rely much on either US government/media or the Chinese. And if it was a bioweapon, who among “us” would be so keen to target Iran where over ten percent of their parliament got sick very early on? That is an Israel First kind of agenda. Or maybe it was Japan? Good investigators keep an open mind.

    Note (This is not a subject change) Over the last several decades the American public health system has regularly failed to adequately warn our citizens about the causes and risks of numerous epidemics that have claimed many millions of lives. Or were all sugar drenched foods advertised as “Fat Free” really a “healthy choice”? So I do not quite understand why Ron Unz considers the corona virus the one instance of stellar government incompetence, as if to imply the current lock down has not nearly severe enough?!? Thank god he did not invoke the party line panacea of the Gates vaccine!

    Meanwhile, what about Kushner’s fast tracking mass surveillance? Will it only be temporary? Will it only be used for containing CV19? Ha. Let’s all step in the van with the nice man who will give us a teddy bear…

    On top of this alleged biocrime, examples are abounding where the opportunists are eager to grab more power, and make killings of a sort, not least of which are the banks, Wall Street and the war mongers.

    Remember, the farther the tide goes out, bigger the tsunami that charges back in.

  54. dimples says:

    I don’t buy it. If the US was going to go to the extreme length of releasing a highly contagious virus into the territory of its new Deep State certified arch-enemy China, the risk of contagioning yourself is extremely high. Especially with global trade and travel as it is these days. Preparations would have been made in advance to make sure it would not blow back by putting appropriate people and methods in place. Its too easy to blame incompetence for this oversight.

    If you’re looking for plotters, look no further than Wall St. They are making out like bandits in the latest bailout.

    • Replies: @dimples
  55. The chronology is indeed telling. Strange that the MSM never thought to ask how the DIA could have known such a thing.

    Let’s hope this teaches the deep state not to fool around with viruses anymore.

  56. dimples says:
    @dimples

    Unless of course the blow back is a feature and not a bug, which it must be admitted, it usually is. If the US economy takes an enormous hit due to blow back, which it has, then China is set up as the next ultra-bad guy to replace Russia, Russia Russia!. It then becomes the new fixation of the Deep State’s wet dreams, a new Cold War where plenty of money goes down the toilet into the MIC’s pockets and plenty of opportunity for the heroic Special Ops types to keep the Hollywood grist mill grinding.

    • Replies: @dimples
  57. This is by far the most one-sided and far-fetching article I’ve read in the American Pravda series. Very disappointing, to say the least.

    For example, Mr. Unz linked the below article about Tiananmen square:

    https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

    The original source went to great lengths to make it clear a massacre did in fact occur that night/morning, only it was taking place in other areas of Beijing and the victims were mostly protesting workers, not students. (At least 300 of them, by Chinese official figures.) A person reading Unz’s summary will come out believing this did not take place, although the Chinese themselves don’t really deny it did.

  58. Pheasant says:

    ‘Zerohedge a popular right-wing conspiracy website’

    How dissapointing Ron Unz.

    You should consider what people say about this website.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  59. dimples says:
    @dimples

    This is a reasonable view in my opinion. If you look at previous US false flag events, they come at periods when new directions are needed to perpetuate the US war machine’s supposed usefulness. The 1990 Gulf War was clearly a set up that came just as the old Cold War was ending and prepared the way for 911 and the Iraq War, which capitalized on the US bases that had been set up during the Gulf War.

    Currently the Russia, Russia Russia! narrative is petering out. The US Deep State wants to perpetuate it but the Euros don’t really want a war with Russia, a huge market for them. So continuation of Russia Russia Russia! risks a split with the Euros.

    But China, a nice new up and coming enemy there. Yum yum. So Covid-19 could be a US false flag effort in that direction it has to be admitted. Damage to US economy? Who cares, the Deep State doesn’t. Its immune, rolling as it does in government loot.

    • Replies: @dimples
  60. My issue with the ‘it’s not china’s fault”argument revolves around the secrecy in the beginning. And then the arrests of those sounding the alarm inside China. One would think that if this was from elsewhere the CCP would be screeching bloody murder from day one……NOT trying to downplay it and outright lie about it. Didn’t China use the same playbook with SARS? Silence and then misdirection.

    my .02

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @foolisholdman
  61. Ghali says:

    The actual number is 43000 dead Americans. The China narrative lacks hard evidence. There is mounting evidence that COVID-19 pandemic originated in the U.S. and may have been a terror attack perpetuated by the U.S., which is pursuing a massive expansion of biological weapons program. According to scholar Kevin Barrett: “It also may be a coincidence that the primary U.S. bioweapons lab, Fort Detrick, was shut down in summer 2019 over fears that weaponized pathogens might escape. It may be a coincidence that absurdly under-performing U.S. military athletes came to Wuhan for the World Military Games in October and have since been accused by China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs of being the source of the COVID-19 pandemic. It may be a coincidence that at the same time those ‘athletes’ were in Wuhan, the World Economic Forum, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Johnson & Johnson, and other Establishment titans were hosting a pandemic simulation called Event 201”.

    Furthermore, “It may be purely coincidental that the virus appeared in Wuhan, home of China’s biggest biodefense laboratory, and China’s biggest transportation hub, just in time for the Chinese New Year, when most Chinese travel to visit relatives. Likewise, it could be coincidental that the real-life COVID-19 pandemic almost perfectly mimics Lockstep, the Rockefeller Foundation’s recipe for a global police state emerging on the back of a coronavirus-style pandemic”, added Kevin Barrett. The U.S. regime unleashed this disease on the world, and the U.S. regime has to be held accountable.

    • Agree: foolisholdman
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  62. JEinCA says:

    Mr. Unz my fellow Californian,

    Your suspicions on this matter echo my own. I remember the Russian Government warning a few years back that Western NGO’s inside Russia had been discovered to be collecting DNA samples of Russian citizens and that it was the opinion of the Russian Intelligence Services that this information was being collected ny Western Intelligence Services for the purpose of future biological warfare. When this outbreak in China made international news I remembered the warning from the Russian Government. Then came the outbreak in Iran that killed many Iranian political figures. Quite a damned coincidence if there ever was one?

    If you ever run for state or national office and are on the ballot (or not) herr in California you have my vote.

    Veritas vos Liberabit!

  63. @Ozymandias

    You’re totally right!

    Look at a very partial list of the Chinese history of lying, almost by habit, just in the last two decades alone!

    China lied in 1999 about “massacres” committed by Serbia and bombed Belgrade to set up the narcomafia organ-smuggling so called state of “Kosovo”.

    China lied about Saddam Hussein having WMDs and invaded Iraq in 2003.

    China lied about “imminent massacres” and “Viagra rape” in Libya in 2011, and deliberately misused a UN Security Council resolution to bomb and destroy that country and hand it over to slave trading jihadi headchopper gangs.

    China lied about Syria using chemical weapons from 2013 onwards, armed and trained and financed terrorist gangs, conducted missile strikes on the country, and continues to occupy and steal oil from East Syria.

    China organised a blatant Nazi coup in Ukraine in 2014 and lied about it being a “popular democratic revolution”.

    China murdered Iran’s top general Qassem Soleimani in 2020 and lied about him being about to conduct terrorist attacks when he was actually on a peace mission.

    With just this partial list of Chinese lies in the last two decades alone, who would believe anything China has to say?!?!?

    • Thanks: Olivier1973
    • Replies: @ld
  64. Interesting article.
    Especially, interesting for me, the aggressive arrest of a Harvard Prof’ of chemistry for technical irregularities in Grant paperwork, coincidentally at the time the virus emerges. (we assume he personally wrote up those applications…? Imagine if everyone who had written up a Grant application, which contained an error or two, in the US were to be dragged off in chains by the FBI ? )
    And also interesting the Belgrade Chinese embassy attack — Mr Unz’s materials put it in a totally new perspective for me.

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @hs4691506
  65. Google says:

    I suspect US gov been planning this attack for years. SARS outbreak in 2003, I suspect, was a test, to test Chinese gov’s response to bio attack. Note that SARS virus and the current covid-19 virus aren’t that different to be considered different viruses, hence covid-19 also known as SARS-2. But the difference, SARS-1 had “kill switch”, it wouldn’t be able to infect humans after a while.

    During 2003 SARS, China acted swiftly causing the virus to be contained within China and according to US gov simulation, covid-19 should’ve been the same, contained within China. But China didn’t act as swiftly as expected, causing the virus leaking back to US, this is why US gov is furious, had China acted earlier, the virus wouldn’t travel back to US.

    The killing of Iranian general, it wasn’t act of recklessness, it was diversion, so that the Iran gov would be occupied by it while ignoring coronavirus spreading silently in their country.

  66. Anonymous[499] • Disclaimer says:

    Ron, my friend (sort of), if you think you have trouble now what with COVID-1, impending national bankruptcy, and a general flow of information that seems to have been some of the most creative fiction in our lives, just wait until you manage to invite China into US civil disputes. Our present difficulties are as nothing compared difficulties subsequent to direct Chinese involvement in civil matters.
    Historically, third party intervention quite often leads to foreign domination. Examples: US in Afghanistan, US in Iraq (twice). Both time, native citizens thought it a great idea to invite the US in.
    And why do I say this? Well, you’re presenting China as morally wronged. In your frame of reference, that’s an absolute, more important than anything else. But it’s not the only interpretation. Perhaps China committed an act of war by giving tactical help to the Serbs. Perhaps that violation became severe when China gathered F117A wreckage. Perhaps China is lucky that bombing the embassy was all that happened, and we are all lucky that things did not escalate. This is actually less of a fantasy than your account, which is at best a bit one sided, almost a “point and sputter”.

    In the US, such accounts are the precursor to advocacy. You should consider carefully the consequences of advocacy in this case.

    • Disagree: Jett Rucker
    • Replies: @utu
    , @denk
    , @FB
    , @mcohen
  67. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:

    America was finally returning to a regular peacetime economy, with the benefits apparent to

    the everyone

    everyone

    China seemed unsuccessful in its initial efforts to halt the spread of the disease using convention methods.

    conventional

    the response to this global health crisis of by China and most East Asian countries

    by

  68. While I think the first part of the article is very interesting, and I acknowledge the theoretical benefits that could exist from the US using COVID as a bioweapon, I find the argument unpersuasive for the following reasons:

    Obvious blowback: If the US infected China with a highly spreadable disease, why did we not put in more aggressive measures to stop it from spreading in the US? Otherwise, what’s the point of hurting your enemy if you also get hurt? If the US was going to attack China with a bioweapon, why would they not engineer a genetic/ethnic bioweapon that targeted Han Chinese, as oppose one that could also kill everyone? Seeing the economic damage this has done to us, it seems unlikely that such a contagious weapon would be the one an actor would pick, as it would risk damaging their own homeland.

    China has always been a hotbed of disease: A third of China’s history has them facing an epidemic of some sort. The 1957 “Asian flu” , 1968 “Hong Kong flu” and 1977 “Russian flu” all started in China. The black death probably started in China. Seems far more likely that recent disease outbreaks are part of a historic trend, or gross Chinese conditions, rather than a bioweapon attack.

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Alden
  69. On April 11, 2020, Gilad Atzmon published here an excellent article titled “A Viral Pandemic or A Crime Scene?”, in which he suggests circumstances have now created ‘a paradigm change’ in the perception of the current viral pandemic.

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/a-viral-pandemic-or-a-crime-scene/

    He states: “Since we do not know its provenance, we should treat the current epidemic as a potentially criminal act as well as a medical event. We must begin the search for the perpetrators who may be at the centre of this possible crime of global genocidal proportions.” I concur.

    All Americans (and others) who believe in China’s culpability for the emergence of this virus, should welcome such an investigation. And Mr. Pompeo, who so firmly plants the full responsibility on China’s doorstep, would receive vindication of his claims. I believe that the governments and the people of China, Italy, Spain, France, and Iran, especially would like to know the results of such a criminal investigation.

    All nations of the world should band together now, and proceed jointly with this endeavor. It needn’t be approached with presumption of cause or intent, but simply to uncover the entire truth of this event. That will be sufficient, and it is possible the results of this worldwide investigation will prompt others into similar past events which have to date gone unquestioned and unexamined.

    I believe there are yet many truths about COVID-19 (and many other epidemics) still to emerge. Perhaps one of the many people with personal knowledge of the source and method of distribution will be sufficiently brave to come forward, perhaps another Edward Snowdon or Chelsea Manning. We will then see how truly the US treasures its whistle-blowers.

    **

    The US needs to answer this question: HOW could US ‘intelligence sources’ possibly have known in November – or even October – of a potential pandemic of COVID-19 that would erupt – specifically in Wuhan – two months later? (Or that was already erupting in Wuhan at the time, unbeknownst to the Chinese?). I believe the entire world would demand the answer to this.

    **

    In early March the US government declared as classified all COVID-19 information, with all communication to be rerouted through the White House and coordinated with NSC officials. Only specified individuals with security clearance are permitted to attend secret meetings, with no mobile phones or computers allowed. Excluded staff members claimed they were told virus information was classified “because it had to do with China”. The US needs to explain the need for such extreme secrecy (while condemning China for lack of transparency), and how coping with a domestic virus epidemic would involve China.

    China, Italy, and several other nations in Asia and Europe have documented proof that COVID-19 was circulating in their populations for several months before the outbreak in Wuhan. And there are many, many reports, including from physicians, that infections in the US were occurring as early as September, of 2019. These claims are too numerous, too detailed, and too similar to be ignored. Japanese TV and press documented that Japanese tourists returning from Hawaii were coming home infected with COVID-19 in September.

    Why was Dr. Helen Chu issued a threatening “cease and desist” order to stop testing nasal swabs her flu research team had taken in Washington State from October 2019 onward? The only possible result would be to prevent the knowledge emerging that the virus had already been circulating months earlier. As a rule, the reason we don’t ask a question privately is because we already know the answer, and the reason we don’t ask the question publicly is because we don’t want anyone else to know the answer.

    The US government needs to address the now-certain existence of the virus being widespread in America and much of the world from September, 2019.

    • Replies: @Half Back
    , @anonymous
  70. Z-man says:

    Your globalists and anti American tendencies come out in the first part and the last few paragraphs of your piece. I didn’t read most of the rest of your long winded article.
    Bottom line, the Chinks infected the world whether by incompetence or deliberately. They then intimidated the world with their economic might and with the help of their lackeys in the WHO and the PC/shit lib elite in the West to keep the flow of infected people to keep coming into the West. Italy is the tragic example but you can include the rest of the West including America where that old bag Nancy Pe-lousy was celebrating in China Town in late February.
    They, the PRC, should be made to pay reparations.

  71. NoLock says:

    Not to dismiss Ron Unz’s reasoning outright, but it has been claimed that the virus cannot be the product of direct genomic manipulation.

    That’s barring any breakthrough in genomic manipulation techniques, a breakthrough that would have to be kept secret. What these scientists have said is that publicly available techniques would have left traces in the viruses genome. They claim that any such traces are absent from the virus’s genome.

    If that holds up, then the only remaining possibility would be a virus that was bred. It could have been bred by taking the bat virus and passing it through other types of animals, selecting for increased virulence. It has been claimed that ferrets would fit the bill since they have the same ACE2 receptor as humans. Ferrets are easy to handle under laboratory conditions.

    If the US deep state did something like this, then their reasoning would have to be on what lines? “Let’s take this virus that we have bred to dock very easily onto the human ACE2 receptor and set it loose on the Chinese. The virus will devastate them will they still be able to contain it – so that there won’t be too much blow back.”

    Maybe they misjudged the product of their virus enhancement effort. Still, it needs be kept in mind what presuppositions have to be put in place for the blow back theory to work.

    • Replies: @gregor
  72. I tend to doubt that Chinese leaders have any overwhelming commitment to the truth, and the reasons for their greater veracity are probably practical ones.

    Their reasons are extremely practical:

    1. In the absence of national elections they are free to make realistic promises. Since they have kept every promise they’ve made to date they have an investment in staying honest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_China,

    2. In the absence of factions like our Republicans and Democrats, there’s no-one to blame or pass the buck to, nor lie competitively, nor attack proposed or existing policies. There’s no ‘them,’ there’s only ‘us.’

    3. The Chinese have always been willing to make sacrifices now for benefits later, which incentivizes being honest up front.

    4. Telling the truth is cheaper in the long run, which is one reason China has the cheapest government on earth.

    5. People are much more willing to cooperate with truth-tellers. Governing is infernally difficult and being truthful makes it vastly easier.

    6. Straight talk, especially from leaders, is attractive (Trump’s appeal to his base is that he occasionally blurts out something true). Asked on TV how it felt to be President, Xi said, “People who have little experience with power–those who are far from it–tend to regard politics as mysterious and exciting. But I look past the superficialities, the power, the flowers, the glory, the applause. I see the detention houses, the fickleness of human relationships. I understand politics on a deeper level.” Imagine an American politician talking like that.

    7. Smart people tell the truth more often than dumb people. People out of their intellectual and experiential depth, which our politicians usually are, tend to lie. The average IQ of China’s top 5,000 political leaders is 140 and all of them have 25 years successful governing experience. They’re professionals who are less likely to lie than your brain surgeon.

    [MORE]

    • Thanks: FB
    • Troll: UK
  73. hs4691506 says:
    @Otto von Komsmark

    I’ve read the Chinese are proud that they’ll “eat everything under the sun”. China is a very old culture. People might have differing opinions, but I think it strange that now we have all these cross-overs from the animal kingdom.

  74. hs4691506 says:
    @animalogic

    I think it was Zero-hedge that said the professor lied about his Chinese funding, making him in effect an agent of China. That’s not some burocratic form error.
    I think the article is a good summary but the author is also guilty of embellishment. For example, he used the word “concerted” at least twice, when he has no proof of that.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  75. Anonymous[108] • Disclaimer says:

    Having grown up with in the University of Chicago South Side Chicago neighborhood , then lived in racial, criminal, immigration anarchy New York City 1985-91
    , I m rarely if ever surprised about national or international events. The seemingly incomprehensible views and policies of American, diaspora, Neo Conservative, Hollywood,Wall Street Jews makes sense in awful ways:

    They hate us – want us replaced

    Madeline Albright (How did this ugly woman from Central Europe get to be USA Secretary of State? Why did she demand bombing the sh&$ out of the Serbs to creat a Muslim beach head in Central Europe ? What is she ? Catholic? Episcopalian Christian? Oh she s Jewish again but wants to convert to Islam to protest President Trump s proposed Muslim immigration plan).

    I look at this Chinese Kung Flu Coronavirus and just note how sensible nationalist governments/societies in Japan, Taiwan, Hungary, Slovakia and of course Israel handle it:

    Strict, zero tolerance immigration, student visas from Coronavirus plague infected areas – also no millions of Muslim young male migrants.

    Pretty much no one in these sensible nationalist societies care if Jews at the SPLC, The Atlantic Magazine, or National Review, CPAC or the Wall Street Journal scream that they are:

    RACISTS
    FASCISTS
    NAZIS

    It s probably too late in my life to try to learn Hungarian or Japanese.

    But I think I/we should all try to learn translations of :

    “Shut up Jews”

    “Support Israel the homeland of the Jews… so go home”

    Life isn t complicated .

    It s the same with terrible Black AA ga g murders in my Chicago …. same with TB, bubonic plague heroin addicts street people in LA’s Skid Row, Gypsy no go places in Romania or France.

    Life isn t complicated .

    • Replies: @Trinity
  76. From Ron Unz’s article linked above on the Canadian kidnapping of the Huawei billionaire’s daughter, Ron himself said something which points to the perhaps deeper truth here

    In that piece our host Ron suggested that the clear best course for China, was to put the squeeze on USA Jewish billionaire and political king-maker Sheldon Adelson, the big political funder of Trump and US Republicans etc … Adelson being the casino king of Macau who earns most of his billions there under Chinese authority, Adelson being able to get the Huawei exec released with just a phone call to Trump, if Chinese would just walk into Sheldon’s casinos and threaten shutdown

    China never moved to touch Sheldon’s businesses in China, and as I said at the time, this is because of the deeper frightening truth, that the big powers tend to work together behind the scenes, even whilst in public disputes, like high school football teams in rivalry

    Chinese media accuse the US of creating a bio-weapon, US media accuses China of the same, the classic rivalry of Orwell’s 1984

    Both governments share motives of culling pensioners as covid-19 does; distracting from incipient collapse of excessive economic debt; establishing greater elite surveillance and control; and enabling elites to buy and own ever larger sectors of global economic life; in other words the classic ‘NWO’ of conspiracy talk.

    Half a century ago, Antony Sutton proved that 1940s-1970s USA had been transmitting tech to the old Soviet Union (often via Israel), to create the ‘Best Enemy Money Can Buy’ … the Cold War was essentially fake, and Putin came out of that, and continues trading favours with the USA … Putin doesn’t question 9-11, USA doesn’t question false flags in Chechnya etc

    Sites like the ‘Secret Life of Jews in China’ show how European Jews were part of China’s Mao revolution, even becoming politburo members … Chabad centres abound in China despite few nominal Jews there, linking hotlines to Jared Kushner’s Chabad centre in DC and ‘Putin’s rabbi’ Berel Lazar in Moscow

    One has to go one level above the US vs China mudslinging, and consider it is all likely as fake and staged as was US-Soviet rivalry … China and the USA may well be working together on covid

    The idea that Covid-19 was a bio-weapon deployed in China by the US visitors to the late 2019 military games, was promoted early on by Veterans Today (VT) where Unz’s Kevin Barrett hails from. VT is a website widely-read by world governments, despite its partly kooky and ridiculous articles about space aliens etc

    Gordon Duff, co-chief of VT, said out loud in a radio interview – where he also outed himself with a chuckle as a ‘self-hating Jew’ – that 30% of the material on his site is intentionally false and ridiculous, as the price he must pay for publishing true ‘intel drops’ without getting shut down / murdered by the US gov’t … in intel-speak, this is called ‘poisoning the well’, you publish the most damning truths on self-discrediting sites like VT or David Icke, where the typical reader easily dismisses truth because it’s published next to articles about space alien lizards ruling planet earth

  77. utu says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    Yes, what if the chief objective was not to hurt China by disrupting its society and economy but to make the whole world angry with China. Ron Unz article is the voice crying out in the desert which will not stop the tsunami of memes: WuFlu, China did it, China must pay for our sufferingWe must punish China. that has been whipped up from the very beginning and only will be getting loader and stronger.

    Some of the things you list are to benefit the insiders. No little thing that could bring profit will be left to chance. It is just like when World Trade Center being transferred from Port Authority before 9/11. Was it critical to the operation? Could they get the terror event if WTC was not owned by Larry Silverstein? Yes, they could but few extra bucks could have been made with Larry Silverstein being the front man. Or just when American troops were entering Bagdad, who and when organized special outfits who systematically were visiting Bagdad museum and looting it according to the shopping list?

    Ron Unz is underestimating their evil and abilities.

    • Agree: Mustapha Mond, Wade
    • Thanks: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
    , @Mefobills
  78. anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ozymandias

    If “they” were going to do such a thing, how would they go about it, and what would have been their thinking?

    Deliberately engineered biological agents can often be detected by careful analysis of the pathogen’s genome. Bioinformatic programs can detect odd sequences that shouldn’t belong; the chances of a purely natural explanation for the inclusion of some sequences are rare, for instance. Let’s say I wanted to create a super virus capable of destroying humanity. One obvious way to do this would be to take viral sequences from certain dangerous pathogens and combine them into one. That might do the job, but obviously there is a risk that comes along with doing with that: current sequencing and bioinformatic techniques may quickly discover such an act and invite retaliation by the victim. “That shouldn’t be there!” If half of China started dying of a mysterious virus composed of sequences from various unrelated viruses, then obviously there is an attack underway because the chances of such elements coming together in nature is very low, practically zero. A response would likely follow in short order.

    Is there a way around this? Maybe.

    There are several odd things about Sars2 (Covid-19) that I haven’t seen before: 1) it spreads in contravention to how — some — previous viruses we’ve dealt with in recent memory have spread. Specifically, there are a higher-than-expected number of cases are transmitted before the patient become symptomatic with this virus. This is why initial airport screenings failed to stop the virus from entering the United States, aside from lax screening*. In the past, most of these viruses like MERS and SARS weren’t particularly contagious when the infected carriers were asymptomatic, so simply checking their body temperature with a thermometer and following up with contact tracing was enough to stop the spread. 2) unlike both SARS and MERS, this virus is remarkably contagious for a novel pathogen, even moreso than the flu 3) this virus may have a very long asymptomatic phase, up to two weeks in some people. One explanation is that something similar is true of other viruses that cause the common cold and the flu but we haven’t really noticed it before because those viruses are comparatively less lethal. If you believe in a conspiracy, on the other hand, this would be a feature deliberately engineered to ensure maximum transmission.

    Elements of the conspiracy:

    1. This outbreak happened just before Donald Trump’s reelection campaign got underway and during crucial trade negotiations. Maybe they wanted to put pressure on the Chinese government to increase Trump’s chances of getting reelected. His approval ratings according to 538 have been stuck in the low to mid 40s for essentially his entire presidency. He needs a consistent approval rating above 47% or so to ensure a high chance of reelection.

    2. This happened just after a failed Hong Kong color revolution by youthful protestors. Many of the signs held by protesters included the kinds of things a boomer FBI agent might think would curry favor with the 4chan crowd — pepe the frog, various slogans. It failed, in part, because that crowd didn’t buy it. Hong Kong protestors were relentlessly mocked on some alt-right websites as morons wanting to deliver their people the “freedom” enjoyed by the West: dozens of genders, speech laws, feminism … The case of a Canadian waxing salon being forced to wax a male-to-female transgendered person’s genitals was prominently used to mock Hong Kong protesters demanding Western freedom.

    Conspiracy:

    The CIA may have bred a virus to be easily transmissible but much less lethal than the original SARS virus that made the headlines years ago. They may have expected the virus to spread quickly in China and panic the Chinese population, undermining faith in the government so the CIA could once again try to overthrow their rival. They never expected it to come back on them.

    If one were going to create a viral agent guaranteed to escape detection as an artificial construction, one might do the following: take a known virus indigenous to the targeted area and breed it in animals native to the area (bats) so that it spreads undetected until symptoms present while having a traceable lineage when examined with bioinformatic software / select it against human tissue samples in vitro so that in infects human cells easily.

    The former technique might leave behind a tale tell signature: the virus has a long incubation time within the host. Why? Well, some animals have lower resting body temperatures than humans. This can affect which pathogens are able to infect them. Pathogens that have evolved to replicate at one temperature may not replicate very well under another one. Animals like opossums and hibernating bats are less likely to die from rabies infection, for instance, because they have lower body temperatures, among other factors. Humans and dogs are not so lucky because both have higher body temperatures where the virus can replicate more easily. It’s sort of strange how SARS2 (Covid-19) takes so long to clear in some patients — up to two weeks or more. Maybe this occurs because, despite being able to easily infect human cells, it replicates poorly at first because it is adapted to bats, which often have a lower resting body temperature. Although, it is possible this could occur naturally as well.

    The latter can be done by infecting cell cultures in dishes and examining which cultures became infected and to what degree. This can be done by measuring viral titers — dilute extracted cell culture liquid, filter out cells and bacteria, apply diluted mixes to new cultures, examine results, selected superior viral lines for continued manipulation. There are lots of ways to set this up. Maybe you tag your viral proteins with a florescent protein and examine after some period of time; the more virus that is being made, the stronger the signal. Select that particular culture and continue.

    Point: there are lots of ways to do this, some pretty simple (but probably expensive, dangerous, and time-consuming nonetheless — which is why dumb Middle Eastern terrorists haven’t tried it so far). The important thing is that such a set up would avoid including obviously unnatural elements that could never be explained by random chance — the inclusion of sequences from other viruses, for example. This might come off looking natural, even if remaining mysterious to the outside observer.

    *The American government was warned about this virus but didn’t take it seriously. Explanation 1: Trump and his advisers are greedy imbeciles (more likely). Explanation 2: the American government didn’t expect this to be a big deal because they created it to be less lethal than previous viruses, perhaps not understanding that a lower death rate over a larger population would result in higher casualties (less likely).

    Americans arriving at JFK from locked-down Italy are shocked by the lack of US screening for coronavirus

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8098819/Americans-arriving-JFK-Milan-say-SHOCKED-no-screening-coronavirus.html

    Trump allegedly asked Fauci if officials could let coronavirus ‘wash over’ US

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/492390-wapo-trump-allegedly-asked-fauci-if-officials-could-let-coronavirus

    Points against this theory:

    1) Trump is a loudmouth and a braggart. If he knew ANYTHING about this, he probably would have let it slip by now. Elements of the British government have had to restrict some information they share with the Americans for fear that Trump would leak it to his friends during his then regular discussions with people over unsecured lines. Would the CIA really do something extraordinary like this without his knowledge?

    Points in favor:

    1) The UK, a country that often works with the Americans to do nefarious things, didn’t take this very seriously, either. They acted as if they didn’t expect this to be a big deal. Other countries that usually don’t work that closely with US intelligence to the same degree, have taken Covid-19 seriously even if they have failed to contain it. Although, this is probably wrong. The nations that have dealt best with this are the ones that have had lots of previous experience with similar viruses and whose populations are naturally more inclined to work together.

    2) The timing and location of the viral outbreak. Isn’t Wuhan a major transportation hub?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Peterike
  79. FB says: • Website

    Excellent piece by Ron Unz…

    One thing I notice is how crisply written this is, compared to the very dense, plodding style that characterizes much of his previous work…

    A very good overview of the situation…and a thoughtful analysis of the finger pointing that’s going on…

    Regardless of whether the lock down measures have been an overreaction or not, most reasonable people will realize that we may never know what might have been, had we not locked down…

    Would the health system have been able to cope…?

    What would happen when hospitals are overwhelmed by serious respiratory cases…?

    China’s very forceful reaction now looks absolutely brilliant…

    That extremely energetic reaction also hints that the Chinese leadership may have suspected an attack…

  80. “...the current accusations by Trump Administration officials that China had attempted to minimize or conceal the serious nature of the disease outbreak is so ludicrous as to defy rationality.

    This assertion is absolutely untrue, as most readers who have followed this story early on will know. You conspicuously left out of your conspiratorial musings the news of the “whistleblower” Wi Leniang, the 34-year old ophthalmologist who had worked at Wuhan Central Hospital, and had already alerted his colleagues late last year about a suspicious viral outbreak, for which he was subsequently arrested and punished by authorities. Millions of people in China are familiar with his tragic story – he eventually died.

    On January 9 the World Health Organization released the following press statement, providing sufficient information that would have warranted or obliged the authorities to have immediately closed the Wuhan airport and train station to prevent the contagious spread of the virus to other regions of the world through unwittingly infected carriers.

    https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/09-01-2020-who-statement-regarding-cluster-of-pneumonia-cases-in-wuhan-china

    Instead, authorities waited two entire weeks before closing the Wuhan airport, during which time the virus spread inevitably to other countries through the many international passenger flights. According to military game theory, such inaction would surely benefit China, which could better deal with an outbreak, whereas most other countries would suffer more severely in comparison. For this reason, regardless whether the release of the presumably engineered virus was released intentionally or accidentally, the Chine government is culpable for having allowed the pandemic to evolve. So at least in this particular case the allegations of the Trump administration are correct.

    Your narrative omitted these indisputable facts, which you then denigrated as “so ludicrous as to defy rationality“, yet after a Communist Party meeting in mid-February, some of those responsible for having minimized or concealed the serious nature of the outbreak were officially “demoted” (received a slap on the wrist):

    https://www.businessinsider.com/international/analysis-china-hubei-officials-sacked-xi-jinping-protected-2020-2/

    Those who praise China’s alleged competence in the matter have a dilemma to deal with. Either the authorities are competent, in which case they effectively waged biological warfare against the rest of the world (using incompetence as plausible deniability of intent) in order for their economy to come out ahead, comparatively, in the long run, compared to a situation where only their own economy would have suffered by effective early containment measures; or else they were indeed incompetent, that an accidental release from one of their labs in Wuhan becomes even more plausible than it already is. Either way, the focus of inquiry must remain on China, rather than conducting an exercise in reflexive exoneration. Fantastical insinuations pointing the finger elsewhere, for which no strong evidence has been presented, are just a distraction.

    Accidental releases have been known to occur, but apparently only the level-4 lab in Wuhan was known to have been working on enhancing those bat-based viruses with gain of function properties and chimeric qualities.

    Your entire conjecture about the strong likelihood of US culpability essentially rests almost entirely on the vague notion of “extreme recklessness“, which in such dangerous matters, as the release of deadly viruses, appears to be significantly less likely, from an analytical perspective, than an accidental release from a biological lab in Wuhan.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  81. While your lengthy article shows the possibility that the virus originated in the US and was spread intentionally, with a lot of trust developed by our own Dr. Fauci of the NIAID and $37 million in grants (long before Trump) to study bat coronaviruses in collaboration with China, I think you are missing one important feature.
    Trump and his neocon clown car are loathed by the Intelligence Agencies. Unlike Obama, who loved to have the CIA “playing” in his sanctioned, National Emergencies countries (Yemen, Libya, Venezuela, Ukraine, Somalia, South Sudan, Central African Republic, Burundi), backing coups in Egypt, Honduras and the big one, Ukraine, and delighting in droning and expanding Bush’s two wars into 7 or 11, depending on how you count, Trump for all his idiotic saber rattling has started no wars; Bolivia is his only coup, Nicaragua his only war-like National Emergency. You may have missed the events of Russiagate and Ukrainegate, built on incompetent spycraft, and an impeachment started by a CIA “whistleblower”, but to give Trump credit for something as devious as an obvious CIA op (by your own speculations) seems disingenuous. Much more likely the CIA (whose hubris and incompetence rivals Trump’s) likely were running this operation from at least when the first bat coronavirus grants were sent to Wuhan (2011? 2015? I’ve read both). My guess is the CIA did not even share their brilliant idea with the loathsome Trump, as he would have likely squashed it as he finally did with John Bolton’s out-of-control machinations. I think the CIA sees the spectacular failure of their operation as a chance to embarrass and likely overthrow Trump. If they had destroyed the Chinese economy, they would have taken full credit, as it is, they look masterful in re-establishing the Establishment, and ridding themselves of a non-supportive Trump.

  82. Coronavirus catastrophe? Even though the CDC has been accused of exaggerating the number of deaths from the Coronavirus by allowing doctors to assume , without testing ,someone died from it, the number of deaths are not alarming . According to the CDC’s provisional statistics posted on April 20,2020 , from February 1 to April 18 ,2020 there were only 15,252 deaths from the Coronavirus out of a total of 603,184 deaths from all causes ,in a US population of 327,167,434 . For the one week ending April 11 there were 5483 COVID-19 deaths and for the one week ending April 18th there were only 568 deaths . cdc.gov . Deaths from the Coronavirus appear to be on the decline in mid-April ,just as they often do in a typical flu season as Spring returns in the Northern hemisphere. As a number of doctors have observed the lockdowns, social distancing and unemployment resulting from the draconian measures taken by Governors across the US are leading to an unprecedented number of cases of depression and suicides.
    It is well established,that people who are depressed end up with many types of illnesses due to their compromised immune systems .
    The tragedy of the Coronavirus pandemic is ,that as more and more circumstantial evidence comes to light ,it was an engineered crisis or ,as some investigators have termed it ,a planned-demic see, for example, “How to create a fake pandemic”jamesfetzer.org.

    • Agree: Alden
  83. Deep and enduring thanks to Ron Unz and his team for this site, an oasis of common sense in a desert of nonsense.

    Regarding:

    “So if American bio warfare analysts were considering a corona virus attack against China, isn’t it quite possible they would have said to themselves that since SARS never significantly leaked back into the US or Europe, we’d similarly remain insulated from the corona virus? Obviously, such an analysis was foolish and mistaken, but would it have seemed so implausible at the time?”

    There might be another possibility. That being that the American plans you outline were formulated and carried out by the deepest, eternally-entrenched portions of the American security state and that “senior administration officials” were simply never consulted about bio warfare efforts against China. Very possibly including those earlier events noted, aimed at Chinese agricultural interests.

    Two birds with one stone would be the result: 1) China is (theoretically) taken down by orders of magnitude; 2) That usurping outsider, the ever-disruptive President Trump exits in January, as no incumbent would be judged to have a 2% chance of withstanding the hurricane of events tied to the pandemic’s arrival in America.

    All the better, then, to allow Trump and other leading American politicians to convincingly lead the chorus against China, and all done with never any possibility of a leak from any political “source” about anything pertaining to the background and planning of the operation.

    Implications of such a possibility are too monstrous to consider, so am certain this assertion can’t be true. Right?

    • Agree: Half Back
  84. utu says:
    @Hail

    “…this whole thing may be a Chinese Communist Party ‘Hoax,’ in the sense that while the ‘new’ virus is real (there are always ‘new viruses’), the reaction was at least 1000x what was necessary to deal …” – The reality parsing by the hoaxers always lead to the discovery of more hoaxes. Check with your guru Kunt Wiitkowski if he was not the one who advised Chines how to pull off the hoax. Didn’t he tell them that only 10,000 would have die?

    • Replies: @TT
  85. hs4691506 says:
    @swamped

    I, too, doubt that Trump would have been aware of what was going on, this would have been an operation that was kicked off now because if Trump gets re-elected, he’ll hopefully clean house, and all that preparation would have been for nothing.

    That having been said … what’s your explanation why Trump did bring a lot of neocons on board, who effectively blocked him. If he really wanted to placate the democrats, there would have surely been hawks who weren’t as dangerous as, e.g. Bolton.

  86. @Jim Jatras

    He said back then he thought that. Hasn’t expressed his current view. None of us knew back then that the US was dumping pure U238 on Yugoslavia making large parts uninhabitable for a thousand years.

    • Replies: @Jim Jatras
  87. utu says:
    @refl

    Ron, we need a new button: Hoaxer

    • Disagree: Hail
  88. 20.Hail says:

    “Checking the Jay Matthews story, I see this: Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances.”

    There is much that Jay Matthews didn’t say. Read this:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/tiananmen-square-the-failure-of-an-american-instigated-1989-color-revolution/5690061

    29.Christopher Marlowe says:

    “Smithfield is owned by a Chinese firm.”

    It is not. Shuanghui International Holdings Limited, now known as W-H Group, is a private company based in Hong Kong that holds a majority of shares in China’s largest meat processor, Shuanghui Foods. The fact that it is based in Hong Kong does not make it “Chinese” in any sense. It is a totally foreign-owned company. The ownership of W-H is mostly American, not Chinese, and Smithfield was involved with the company. It was a complicated kind of reverse takeover, but nothing much of substance changed.

    It is the largest pork company in the world, number one in China, the U.S. and much of Europe.

    And the effect of the swine flu was to shift production and sales from Shuanghui China to Smithfield in the US.

  89. Sean says:

    China’s sweeping Belt and Road Initiative has threatened to reorient global trade around an interconnected Eurasian landmass

    By the time of the Antonine Plague of 165 to 180 AD (which surely inspired Aurelius’s stoicism, and may have killed Lucius Verus and Marcus Aurelius Antoninus) direct trading links between China and Rome had been established. On March 2019 Italy was the first G-7 country in Europe to become a member in the Chinese Belt and Road project. Did that globalisation reproduced the same pandemic-friendly environment that had decimated Ancient Rome, which rivaled China in population at the time of the Roman diplomatic mission from Marcus Aurelius to the Han Court in 166 AD?

    Given these dramatic Chinese actions and the international headlines that they generated, the current accusations by Trump Administration officials that China had attempted to minimize or conceal the serious nature of the disease outbreak is so ludicrous as to defy rationality.

    Hardly, because intent is irrelevant. Not discharging their duty to inform the international community in a timely manner of COVID-19 being extremely infectious and not massively exaggerating the infection to death ratio and duping the WHO and modelers like Imperial College into accepting terrifying but bogus infection to death ratios of 1 to 3 0r 4% as Dr. John Ioannidis says in an update (HERE) means quite simply that China must never ever be relied on again. Next time, and there probably is going to be another such novel coronavirus at some point in the future, China might overcompensate and downplay something extremely dangerous.

    Lieber had had decades of close research ties with China, holding joint appointments and receiving substantial funding for his work. But now he was accused of financial reporting violations in the disclosure portions of his government grant applications—the most obscure sort of offense—and on the basis of those accusations, he was seized by the FBI in an early-morning raid on his Cambridge home and dragged off in shackles, potentially facing decades of federal imprisonment.

    AS I understand it the case against him was precipitated by indications that he was taking money from the Chinese Government and lying to Federal investigators about it while getting $18 million from the Defence Department. He was not a virologist, unlike professor Montagnier who co-discovered HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) and received a Nobel prize. He says the SARS-CoV-2 virus is an artificial laboratory created pathogen, which has fragments of–surprise, surprise–HIV in it. He wants his expertise to be relevant to what everyone is currently obsessed with. But life in this crazy old world is not like that. Unless you are Ioannidis.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  90. Parfois1 says:

    In the early days of the CoV-19 discussion here, a solid body of commenters suggested the strong likelihood of being a US biological attack on China on the basis of its propensity for aggression towards its designated “enemies” by the only method of causing substantial damage to a powerful rival’s economy under the cover of plausible deniability. Considering the inevitable demise of the US as the only superpower, it is not beyond the ruling cabal’s remit to conceive such schemes to thwart the Chinese economic ascendancy. Yes, the initial suspicions of foul-play were reputational (the US habit of resorting to heinous crimes against other nations) and strategically connected as well (the only way to damage a strong opponent short of an all-out nuclear conflagration with uncertain outcome ).

    On the other hand, there were a series of “coincidences” widely discussed here that started giving credence to a full-blown plan of biological attack aimed at the Chinese population by engineering a virus capable to discriminating the target victims. This has been partialled discounted, but not completely until the full sequence of CoV-19 evolution is mapped. Meanwhile, the official narrative has switched to the rejection of the theory of a man-made virus to the “accidental” release by the Wuhan lab, in my view to deflect any effort to research the source of the virus and reinforce the tale of Chinese negligence. But the trouble is that there are many virologists now busy debunking that too and asserting that CoV-19 is unnatural.

    I have come across a report on Australian Media Centre where the evolutionary virologist Edward Holmes of the University of Sydney reveals that “the level of genome sequence divergence between CoV-19 and the closest known bat relative in nature is equivalent to 50 years of natural evolutionary change, which suggests that CoV-19 is a synthetic creation in a lab either by insertion of suitable genetic material or, alternatively, growing different cultures in a laboratory with cells with the human ACE2 receptor. This process involves the gradual adaptations to bind the virus with the human receptor by “training” the virus to seek an efficient method of binding by natural random mutations until one progeny hits the jackpot. Although this process does not require insertions by extraneous genetic material (not strict engineering) because the virus itself produces the required adaptations, it is notheless a human interference with the natural world by breeding something for a, obviously, nefarious purpose. The great advantage of this process is to disguise the fact that it is a contrived lab creation.

    There are many historically significant events the truth of which will remain hidden for a time. But this case involves a strong player (China) and it will – as wel las many outraged scientists worldwide – leave no stone unturned to reveal the unfathomable depth of the US’s den of iniquity.

    • Agree: Half Back
  91. anon[300] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    But as this epidemic is shaping up, it is likely that the estimated death toll will be comparable to that of the seasonal flu in a bad year.

    That’s not correct — at all. Our hospital system in major cities like New York are NEVER brought to the brink with seasonal flu. The likely number of deaths from Covid-19 has already exceeded the number of deaths estimated from seasonal flu over the past 6 of 10 years — in just over six weeks. And that’s under unprecedented quarantine.

    Quoted numbers of deaths are as unreliable as the number of infections.

    Numbers do not need to be 100% “reliable” in this case. Many of those who have died have done so in hospital where they have been tested. We can also measure the baseline death rate in NYC. When we do, we find a tremendous daily increase far and above anything caused since 9/11. Clearly, there is something going around that city that is killing lots of people. No flu in recent memory has done that.

    Cause of death as stated in a death certificate is often, and even usually, wrong, and during an epidemic caused by a virus that induces respiratory difficulty it is likely that virtually all deaths due to respiratory dysfunction will be attributed to the virus without confirmatory evidence.

    This kind of flawed logic could be used to dismiss virtually any epidemic. At some point the number of deaths is so high that no counter argument could reasonably be believed. We’ve already reached that point. There are only so many respiratory deaths that occur over any time period. Even if we moved 100% from other categories over to Covid-19 we would still find peculiarities in the data.

    Deaths in New York City Are More Than Double the Usual Total

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/10/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html

    Furthermore, virtually all deaths of persons testing positive for covid19 will be attributed to the virus even though the deceased may have had multiple other diseases, any one of which could have been the cause of death.

    That’s certainly only going to be minor contributory factor. Huge numbers of people above the average baseline don’t just magically drop dead from other causes all at the same time. If someone gets Covid-19 and dies, it is reasonable to assume it was the proximate cause in the majority of cases. Only so many people die from X at any one time. If twice that number start dying all at the same time, there is a problem.

    “Herd immunity is likely now widespread, so the thing should fizzle out soon, with or without continued population incarceration.”

    Please do not comment on things you clearly don’t understand. It is estimated that no more than a few percent of the American population has been exposed to Sars2 (Covid-19). Herd immunity requires some high multiple of that number. We are nowhere near herd immunity. You don’t even know what that means in all likelihood.

    • Thanks: FB, Bill, Spanky
    • Replies: @Chet Roman
    , @Sollipsist
  92. Seraphim says:
    @nsa

    Whom to believe? Australia had, as per today 21.04.2020, 6,642 cases and 71 dead. Seventy-one, not 120. South Korea on the 18.04. only 232.

    • Replies: @anon
  93. Anon[323] • Disclaimer says:

    Professor Luc Montagnier, Who Won Nobel Prize For Codiscovering AIDS Virus, has said COVID-19’s HIV “strains” could be put there in the virus’s RNA only by human expert intervention in a laboratory.
    The excerpt from the French TV program where he said it can be found on YouTube.

    What’s “funny” is the way most USA, or, how should we say?, USA-close, media reports the fact, starting from misleading headers (headers which, as usual for the USA and, how should we say?, USA-close media, are all clones, with tiny changes from one to the other).

    Professor Luc Montagnier, Who Won Nobel Prize For Codiscovering AIDS Virus, Says Coronavirus Was Man-Made In Wuhan Lab.

    This, when the professor clearly stated he is only a scientist, and he only wanted to relate facts that many other research groups have found but have been left unsaid due to enormous pressure, and he stated equally clearly that it is not his knowledge, duty, competence, will, to give opinions on who did it, where, why.

  94. @Godfree Roberts

    The average IQ of China’s top 5,000 political leaders is 140

    Have not most of the all-time Evil Greats been brilliant? We have them, Russia has them. How is China having them unique? If Ron’s suspicions over this are close to true and even if not, we already have volumes of evidence in so many other situations proving we have brilliant evil-doers aplenty on the U.S. side in any case.

    The rest of your points are agreeable to me. But every time I’ve hung my hat on the ‘brilliant’ high-I.Q.-types I’m always disappointed. They test well but in command of things they bring us wars and now this. The medical people are high-I.Q. as hell, they’ve vacuumed up half our GDP and research dollars for 100 years now and it’s their job to have had this in hand. Like our high-I.Q. generals and admirals the past 75 years, they’re losing another war for us. The high IQ sorts in finance are another group. We’re a nation in serious decline and from where I sit, the high-IQs are merely managing said decline.

    High I.Q.s just don’t cut it from where I sit. Could be jealousy. My IQ is some where between a pineapple and radish, a yam maybe..

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  95. Ber says:
    @Jorge Videla

    There is so much talk about Chinese will eat just about anything but there is usually no focus on other people in the world for doing similar things.

    The Chinese eat bamboo rats, the French and Belgiums eat rats too – besides snails. Some people in Asian countries eat cats and dogs, the Swiss by the thousands, eat cats and dogs. The members of Explorers’ Club in New York eat just about anything as well. But to top it all, there is even have a cannibal club in LA that specializes in eating human flesh.

    http://www.cannibalclub.org/

    Home page: Specializing in the preparation of human meat, Cannibal Club brings the cutting edge of experimental cuisine to the refined palates of L.A.’s cultural elite. Our master chefs hail from around the world for the opportunity to practice their craft free of compromise and unbounded by convention.
    Our exclusive clientele includes noted filmmakers, intellectuals, and celebrities who have embraced the Enlightenment ideals of free expression and rationalism. On event nights, avant-garde performance artists, celebrated literary figures, and ground-breaking musicians entertain our guests.
    At Cannibal Club, we celebrate artistic excellence as the natural and inevitable expression of the unbridled human spirit.

    Now just listen to their music:

    • Replies: @UK
  96. skeptik23 says:

    Brilliant work…I have been researching everything I can find, while placing the totality of events in the context of US IC/DS ops The “botched biowarfare” attack fits the data the best by far. Thanks for this report.

  97. Anon[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Those who praise China’s alleged competence in the matter have a dilemma to deal with. Either the authorities are competent

    There is no “dilemma.” They detected an outbreak and dealt with it competently. Your government run by a reality show host didn’t. It’s as simple as that. You can deflect all you want, but it really boils down to that.

    in which case they effectively waged biological warfare against the rest of the world

    Nothing the Chinese did forced other countries to keep their borders open. Several countries like Israel closed them before Donald Trump did. Nothing China did forced Trump into not taking this seriously until it was too late.

    [MORE]

    Trump calls coronavirus Democrats’ ‘new hoax’

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-calls-coronavirus-democrats-new-hoax-n1145721

    “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear,” Trump told attendees at an African American History Month reception in the White House Cabinet Room. The World Health Organization says the virus has “pandemic potential” and medical experts have warned it will spread in the US. The President added that “from our shores, you know, it could get worse before it gets better. Could maybe go away. We’ll see what happens. Nobody really knows.”

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/27/politics/trump-coronavirus-disappear/index.html

    Trump allegedly asked Fauci if officials could let coronavirus ‘wash over’ US

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/492390-wapo-trump-allegedly-asked-fauci-if-officials-could-let-coronavirus

    In Trump’s ‘LIBERATE’ tweets, extremists see a call to arms

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-trump-s-liberate-tweets-extremists-see-a-call-to-arms/ar-BB12NQ0h

    Stimulus checks to bear Trump’s name in unprecedented move

    https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Stimulus-checks-to-bear-Trump-s-name-in-15202400.php

    ‘God help us’: Americans horrified after Trump names Jared and Ivanka to his ‘Council to Re-open America’

    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/god-help-us-americans-horrified-after-trump-names-jared-and-ivanka-to-his-council-to-re-open-america/

    Trump threatens India ‘retaliation’ over unproven drug

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52180660

    US ‘wasted’ months before preparing for coronavirus pandemic

    A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

    https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856bc

    ‘I felt I had a moral obligation’: Tucker Carlson crashed Mar-a-Lago party to talk with Trump about the coronavirus

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/i-felt-i-had-a-moral-obligation-tucker-carlson-crashed-mar-a-lago-party-to-talk-with-trump-about-the-coronavirus

  98. 2 Phylogenetic studies have been done to suggest America was the source of the virus.

    This study suggests that Type A strain the earliest type of the SARS-COV2, was mostly found in the US. While in China it was mostly type B, another strain mutated from Type A.
    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

    This study suggests there are 2 sources of spread, however in countries from Brazil, Italy, Australia, Sweden and South Korea , some cases are tie to the US cluster but not to China. So this suggest some cases were directly spread from the US. Japan commented it was from the US because they had the virus from traveling to Hawaii and they never went to China.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.09.034942v1

    here in this video presentation some arguments that supports the US had this virus in between August 2019 and Jan 2020.

    A possible scenario is they developed a few Sars-Cov2 bio-weapon strains the B and C strains from the A strain. They wanted to find a vaccine for it before they can be deployed, but in developing the vaccine they leaked the A type out into the US. They had to make a decision, let the public know about it or cover it up and release the B and C strain without the vaccine. I think they did the latter.
    But you be the judge, we need more transparency from the CDC and more research before any conclusions can be made.

  99. Truth3 says:

    Once again Mr. Unz unleashes a Tour de Force upon the Global Power Liars.

    Well done, Sir. Truth wins in the end.

  100. dimples says:
    @dimples

    Of course I completely failed to mention in the above comment that it’s the War on Terror that’s coming to a close. Russia Russia Russia! has been an attempt to fill the gap but its not going anywhere due to opposition from the Euros.

    The slow US reaction to the virus could therefore seen not as incompetence but a deliberate process of sowing more destruction, thus more China-hate later, ie its part of the plot. Also the virus is not too deadly, just enough to create a big scare and over-reaction amongst the authorities and public.

  101. dimples says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    Yes IF there is a conspiracy that would be it. I have also come to this conclusion in other comments but you have described it much better than myself.

  102. anon[215] • Disclaimer says:
    @Christopher Marlowe

    The flying drones over pig farms is nonsense from Metallicman, who is a controlled-opp deep asset that speaks 80-90% truth and 10-20% lies.

    I tried looking into the flying drones a bit, but couldn’t confirm any of it.

    • Agree: Christopher Marlowe
    • Replies: @Debz
    , @Godfree Roberts
  103. Half Back says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    I want to add Trump’s early response to the corona virus shows Trumps and American duplicity. I used to watch a TV show ‘Lie to me’ with actor Tim Roth. Anyway people give away all kind of knowledge when they communicate. So my take that Trump’s call that it’s like a bad flu or it’s nothing to worry about, reveals knowledge that it is American attack and that he (Trump) worries if it gets ‘out’ that the trump administration is culpable, so he tries to downplay corona virus and his own role in it!

  104. denk says:

    Blow back

    The first thought comes to mind….
    Its a feature, not a bug.

    OOps, several posters already noted it.

    ———————————————
    To recap…..

    The Who test....

    Who’s the motive ?

    Who benefits ?

    Who’s the means ?

    Who’s a seventy years old track record of extreme malfeasance against China ?

    Who’s a track record of using bioweapons on friends and foe, including its own citizens ?

    Who’s a track record of committing FF , including many cases against China ?
    [TAM, Tibet, Xinjiang, HK, Mh370, INdon genocide 1965,
    …..]
    ————————

    Occams Razor….

    There’s a serial arsonist in town, he has been caught setting fire to John’s house dozens of times in the past few months.

    JOhn’s house caught fire last night

    Who’s the first suspect to haul in for interrogation ?

    Elementary, Watson.
    ———————-

    Last but not least.

    Mathematics doesnt cheat…

    Ian Flaming’s fundamental law of prob.
    Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, thrice…..

    How many ‘coincidences’ occur in the Wuhan caper. ?

    ——————–
    Conclusion.

    Whichever way you look at it,

    Logic, Circumstantial evidences and Mathematics all points to…
    We know who.

  105. @swamped

    The high casualties in the NATO countries are due to their own reluctance to do anything for so long. Look at the total number that have been infected and the current new infection rates in South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. South Korea prepared better than anybody but was cursed with a Christian sect that also had churches in Wuhan. They stayed close together for a long time in their churches to increase community feeling and, since God was looking after their health, were reluctant to admit to being ill. Yet South Korea shits on every NATO country in fighting COVID-19. So do Australia and New Zealand in spite of their extremely poor use of the 2 months warning provided by China and the DNA sequence of the virus provided by China on 12th of January, 2020. As soon as the Chinese methods were applied, the same success with humans was achieved. Now the NATO countries are aping China too, they are starting to have the same human success. They will continue with success as long as they continue aping. The Yanks are losers like other NATO members because they didn’t bother to ape until they were heavily infected. I stress that Australia and New Zealand did very badly (only about 10 times better than the USA but 4 times worse than China who we should have beaten easily) because they were slow to ape. We only look wonderful when compared with NATO. Actually, we also do about 5 times better than Iran too. Even with sanctions crippling their response, Iran has done twice as well as the US losers. When it becomes a matter of drug and vaccine development where the USA has real strengths, I expect the USA to do as well as China but it’s a low tech battle right now and the Yank boys haven’t done well against the Chinese or Iranian men in that competition. Who would expect them to? [email protected]

  106. Vojkan says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The reasons you enumerate apply to individual people, they don’t apply to governments. It is true that a rational individual should prefer truth because truth is mostly self-sufficient while lies need to be reasserted permanently. The rationality of truth vs lies is very much like the rationality of well-designed software vs badly designed software. Good design as truth demands less maintenance. The problem is that it doesn’t keep programmers busy and it doesn’t justify budgets. A government, the “deep state” moreover, need to keep maintenance costs high to perpetrate themselves.
    The crucial question very few seem to be asking is the question of motive. Many commenters here project on the Chinese their own traits. The problem is that what can be said of Western elites can’t be said of Chinese elites because the Chinese have different motives altogether. There’s one motive they didn’t have, to provoke a crisis. Viruses don’t hop out of labs by accident any more than gold hops out of Fort Knox. One has to bring them out and the Chinese had no reason to do it.
    Regarding the US on the other hand, though I disagree with Ron Unz’s assertion that this particular US administration is more reckless and less competent than those that preceded it, seen from abroad it just appears as less hypocrite, to keep the story short I’ll just say that hubris tends to cloud judgment and that desperate times ask for desperate measures.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  107. Anonymous[538] • Disclaimer says:

    Sounds entirely plausible, and, to be parsimonious, even probable. The last element to make it feasible was leaving Trump entirely out of the loop. He still won’t have a clue if he’s standing in the dock at the Hague years from now. Everything he will ever know about this fiasco will be from light reading material they allow him in his cell.

    The Deep State made the right bet when they decided late in the race to hack the election in favor of the Donald rather than the Queen of Warmongers. Nobody would ever expect the self-described peace candidate to escalate the ongoing hybrid wars to germ warfare. (Though maybe the use of chemical weapons by America’s proxies in Syria should have been a hint.) Now the world knows, the Satanists in charge of Washington will stop at nothing.

  108. Quintus says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    I 100% agree with you, Mustapha Mond. Much as I admire Ron for in so many ways for his other topnotch contributions and running this site, one of the very best news sites IMO, the evidence at hand does not suggest incompetence on the part of the US government and the deep state behind it: it’s definitely an Atlanticist plandemic. Godfree Roberts showed that many steps the Trump administration took the past two years were meant to pave the way for enabling the government to play the “we didn’t see this coming” card, just as with 9/11:

    https://medium.com/@godfree/the-data-are-more-than-just-wrong-these-questions-illuminate-what-we-dont-know-about-the-data-f117681068f1

    Not mentioned in Roberts’ piece is the US’s PREDICT biological outbreak program, conveniently shut down in October 2019:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/health/predict-usaid-viruses.html

    At the same time, the US Health Dept was running Crimson Contagion in the first half of 2019, simulating a deadly flu pandemic starting in China (as I recall). Even the US Naval War College ran a pandemic simulation causing respiratory failure:

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/01/naval-war-college-ran-pandemic-war-game-2019-conclusions-were-eerie.html

    Everyone knows about Event 201 at this point, in October 2019, sponsored by the Gates Foundation, Bloomberg via Johns Hopkins, and the World Economic Forum, simulating specifically a coronavirus pandemic. What are the odds that the organizers of Event 201 were just lucky in picking a coronavirus, knowing there are 150 other virus families, besides coronaviruses (e.g. rhinoviruses, adenoviruses, etc.):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virus_families_and_subfamilies

    That’s a 1/151 chance! Lucky bastards! Present at Event 201 were recycled players involved in the 9/11 anthrax attack simulation ‘Dark Winter’, such as Thomas Inglesby, as documented by Whitney Webb. Not to mention the 2011 movie ‘Contagion’, involving a flu-like pandemic originating in China (Hong Kong),transmitted from bats to humans in an unsanitary environment!!! Another financial reset was also long overdue, as Greg Mannarino and others have pointed out: the coronavirus cover was too perfect of a tool for deflecting the guilt from the Fed and the banksters; killing many birds with one stone, the virus is also a 2) powerful psy-op hurting China’s image in the world, 3) further delivering a strong blow to its export-driven economy; 4) it sets the stage for the cashless society (“dirty bills not accepted here!”), the advent of digital currencies and 5) top-down surveillance.

    • Agree: 9/11 Inside job
    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
  109. @Jeremygg5

    You take a retarded sub human too seriously. Using logic and reason will get you no where.

    It is regretful that a sub human took the first comment spot. It will attract more of it’s type.

  110. @Vaterland

    If we go along on that theory of yours, it would all make sense if China said no to the transition.

    Why would the current Chinese elites share their country and power with outsiders? That makes no sense for the elites of China.

  111. @Octavian

    That reads like the perfect scenario for cold war 2.0 or the last hot war on earth.

  112. anon[114] • Disclaimer says:

    So either the China’s leadership had suddenly gone insane, or they regarded this new virus as an absolutely deadly national threat, one that needed to be controlled at any possible cost.

    Those are not the only choices, Ron.

    Here is another one for you:

    – CCP knew this virus had a low fatality rate;

    – CCP were aware of recent (DoD iirc) readiness assessments noting that US had specific vulnerability to a pandemic;

    – CCP was aware that the captive Chinese people were alrady subject to ‘herd control’ infrastructure whereas the US population still enjoyed human rights;

    – CCP decided to sow confusion about the infection. (“We can do this, but their society will fall apart Comrades!”)

    – The West initially chose to ignore this. Then the Corporate Press “International” decided to put psyops pressure to force US and UK to do a 180 u-turn. This due to a single lousy non-peer-reviewed paper at the Imperial College.

    Must read writeup on Imperial College and their hysterical white paper: https://www.voltairenet.org/article209749.html

    Some other considerations that can inform the above are (a) the attitude of CCP towards ‘world government’ institutions, and (b) their relationship with WHO, in particular.

    So option 3, Mr. Unz:

    CCP used the (controlled?) exposure of a virus (“17”) to put into motion a psychological operation to sow confusion and panic in US (based on our own published findings on readiness) that seems to have other participants in the Globalist crowd institutions. The primary target was USA, but NATO as well.

    Btw, Mr. Unz, that ex-CIA psyops writer you host on your site (Giraldi) keeps censoring my comments on his propaganda pieces. Why do allow them a platform and also permit them to censor rebuttals? Hopefully you will prevent UNZ Review from becoming UNZ Pravda.

    • Agree: UK
    • Replies: @utu
    , @denk
    , @Will
  113. Anonymous[395] • Disclaimer says:

    Ron, you need to rewrite this essay. If minor websites carry articles blaming China the presumption is these articles are falsifications seeded by Trump, but if wildly sensationalist Chinese propaganda pieces come from unknown sources like OldMicrobiologist or Metallicman then they’re reliable? Wow is all I can say.

    Suggesting Lieber’s creds set him above espionage and bio sabotage against the United States is the best you can do? Your overwrought defense of this man is telling, given his “assistants” are provably Chinese bio espionage agents and he secretly agreed to take a post as director of the Wuhan lab.

    In the same vein, did you know that the Johns Hopkins’ inflammatory “dashboard” world map seen and used everywhere was developed by a 30-year-old Chinese “student,” Ensheng Dong, working for Johns Hopkins? Using Edward Tufte’s “Lie Factor” for evaluating the exaggeration of a graphical representation relative to the underlying data puts the Johns Hopkins map so far in the lie category as to warrant an FBI investigation of Johns Hopkins and its employees for causing irreparable economic and societal harm to the United States. In an NPR puff piece gushing over the map’s creators, “all sitting around a table…sipping lattes,” Dong is quoted as saying it’s like showing blood everywhere. That’s quite accurate from the proud creator considering the irreparable harm that map has been in large part responsible for creating.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/833073670/mapping-covid-19-millions-rely-on-online-tracker-of-cases-worldwide

    • Agree: Christopher Marlowe
  114. One correction for the beginning of the article. The 1999 bombing campaign against Yugoslavia wasn’t directed against Bosnian Serbs. That was the 1995 campaign and had nothing to do with the Chinese Embassy being hit. It seems that you simply got the 1995 NATO bombing of Bosnian Serbs (entirely in Bosnia) and the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro – when the Chinese (brand new) embassy was hit) mixed up.

    Interesting thing – the Japanese current embassy is on the exact grounds where the Chinese one used to be. I find some funny symbolism in that.

  115. @Jim Jatras

    Yep. Unz lost me with that comment. And very sloppy by his high standards. The NATO 1999 bombings were to support the Albanians in Kosovo – not the Bosnian muslims. I suggest Ron does some homework on the whole Yugo Wars period. Maybe even back to ottoman times.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  116. @Anonymous

    I think that he obviously got the two NATO bombing campaigns mixed up.
    NATO bombed Bosnian Serbs (entirely in Bosnia) in 1995 to protect its interests under the guise of protecting Bosnian muslims. This is what Unz supports.
    NATO bombed Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) in 1999 when the Chinese embassy was hit.

    Let’s not make the comments spiral off into the Serbia/NATO conflict details. The point of the entire mention of the bombing is that there is sincere indication that the US hit the Chinese embassy on purpose. That much was clear since day 1 as the embassy was a brand new building and you couldn’t mistake it for a previous occupant or anything of the sort. It was a message to China.

    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
  117. UK says:
    @swamped

    While I don’t agree that China would have done this on purpose as I am generally doubtful of all similar theories, it would nonetheless also explain why China banned all movement to the rest of China from Wuhan while not only allowing the Wuhan infected to infiltrate the West but actually vociferously and ubiquitously complaining about Western racists for thinking about not allowing them in.

    • Replies: @naill
  118. Biff says:
    @hs4691506

    I think it was Zero-hedge that said the professor lied about his Chinese funding, making him in effect an agent of China.

    You need to understand the system in place. The book Three Felonies a Day outlines the how, but does’t really cover the why, and there lies the devil in the details. When they want you, all they have to do is pour over your life’ details, and they will find something nefarious as a tool to put you in stern and squeeze.
    There is million different details and forms to fill out when securing foreign funds for a university; most of the rules and the process is ad hoc, and more often a lot of it is ignored, and of course – certain countries have certain rules. The good professor didn’t do anything that was completely out of the norm. It’s nearly impossible in this society to be crime free – by design.

    Think of all the people near Trump during his Russian Collusion investigation that went to jail or indicted – most if not all were dragged in on the many petty illegalities that plague our legal system for a reason. Illegalities that on a normal day most people ignore until it is politically expedient for the authorities to use them.
    This is how a Police State operates.

    You don’t have to believe me; just ask Tommy Chong, Martha Stewart, etc….

    • Replies: @FB
  119. UK says:
    @Ber

    You think there is a restaurant serving human flesh in Los Angeles? You are an abject moron.

    • LOL: Amerimutt Golems
    • Replies: @Ber
  120. Et tu, Brute? You’re worried more about the Chinese embassy in Belgrade and Bosnian Muslims than the destruction of that great Christian Serbia by the Clintons & cabal … shame!

  121. According to Matthews the infamous massacre had likely never happened

    In the mid 1990s, I worked with a man of Chinese ancestry in New York named Henry Sun. Henry had been in Beijing at Tiananmen Square. He had been shot. What happened afterward was that he was treated by doctors for the bullet wound, and they had coded the illness as some sort of cancer, so that it would not be obvious that he was a dissident and so be arrested.

    Now, I cannot say that someone was killed. I can say that personal testament to me from a credible witness indicates bullets were flying, and one struck him. Maybe that’s not a massacre, by whatever means that word is defined. But it wasn’t a Chinese tea ceremony.

  122. I am a retired attorney and I am heartened to see that some attorneys, namely David Helm in Michigan and Lindy Urso in Connecticut ,are beginning to file lawsuits to revoke unlawful and unconstitutional Executive”Coronavirus” Orders issued by the Governors of the States of Michigan and Connecticut. I have long maintained that almost every Executive Order issued by State Governors are revocable as they are based on a lie, promoted by the WHO and the CDC ,that there is a Coronavirus pandemic and an international public health emergency .

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  123. everything China have and everything USA has been lost was done with the complicity and personal gain of 99% of the usa elite,political class,including CIA,etc and even the likes of Michael Jordan.

  124. Anonymous[235] • Disclaimer says:

    Another great article.

    Whoever decides to believe this embarrassingly transparent anti-China propaganda is stupidly siding with Soros and his Global Deep State golems. This will be the latest IQ test for those who struggled with all the previous ones (incubator babies, Iraqi WMDs, Quaddafi’s Viagra, Hillary’s electability, Russiagate etc.).

    George Soros: China Is a ‘Mortal Enemy’ of the West

    FBI, DOJ Say China Is America’s Greatest Threat

  125. @Jim Christian

    High IQ is just an entry level requirement. They have 300,000 folks with 160 IQ, so 140 is not that exceptional.

    New recruits’ first posting is 5 years in the poorest village in the country. They ‘graduate’ after they’ve raised everyone’s incomes by 50%. Then the career path gets really steep.

    The people who are visible to us have been so thoroughly scrutinized that it’s almost painful to contemplate. Here’s Zhao Bing Bing[1], a mid-level Liaoning[2] Province official talking about her mid-level, provincial promotion to Daniel Bell:

    [MORE]

    I was promoted in 2004 through my department’s internal competition (30 percent on written exam results, 30 percent on interviews and public speaking, 30 percent on public opinion of my work and 10 percent on education, seniority and my current position) and became the youngest deputy division chief. In 2009, Liaoning Province (pop. 44 million), announced in the national media an open selection of officials. Sixty candidates met the qualifications, the top five of whom were invited for further interviews. Based on their test scores (40 percent) and interview results (60 percent), the top three were then appraised. The Liaoning Province Organizational Department sent four appraisers who spent a whole day checking my previous records. Eighty of my colleagues were asked to vote–more than thirty of whom were asked to talk with the appraisers about my merits and shortcomings–and they submitted the appraisal result to the provincial Standing Committee of the CCP for review.

    In principle, the person who scored the highest and whose appraisals were not problematic would be promoted. However, because my university major, work experience and previous performance were the best fit for the position, I was finally appointed department chief of the Liaoning Provincial Foreign Affairs Office even though my overall score was second best [the government discriminates positively in promoting women–ed]. Before the official appointment there was a seven-day public notice period during which anybody could report to the organization department concerns about my promotion. I didn’t spend any money during my three promotions; all I did was study and work hard and do my best to be a good person.

    In 2013, thanks to an exchange program, I worked temporarily in the CCP International Department. The system of temporary exchanges offers opportunities to learn about different issues in different regions and areas like government sectors and SOEs. In a famous quote Chairman Mao said, “Once the political lines have been clearly defined the decisive factor will be the cadres [trained specialists].” So the CCP highly values organizational construction and the selection and appointment of specialists. There is a special department managing this work, The Organization Department, established in 1924 and Mao was its first leader..The department is mainly responsible for the macro management of the leaders and the staff (team building), including the management system, regulations and laws, human resource system reforms—planning, research and direction, as well as proposing suggestions on the leadership change and the (re)appointment of cadres. In addition, it has the responsibilities of training and supervising cadres. The cadre selection criteria are: a person must have ‘both ability and moral integrity and the latter should be prioritized’. The evaluation of moral integrity focuses mostly on loyalty to the Party, service to the people, self-discipline and integrity. Based on different levels and positions, the emphases of evaluation are also different. For intermediate and senior officials, emphasis is on their persistence in faith and ideals, political stance and coordination with the central Party. High-level cadres are measured against great politicians and, among them, experience in multiple positions is very important.

    Fans follow the careers of one-thousand top politicians online[3] and they are impressive, as President Donald Trump[4] observed, “Their leaders are much smarter than our leaders. It’s like taking the New England Patriots and Tom Brady and have them play your high school football team. That’s the difference between China’s leaders and our leaders”.

    Today’s leaders began their careers in the 1960s as manual laborers in dirt-poor villages and won promotions by raising village incomes by fifty percent. As they rose, they spent sabbaticals on the lake-studded campus of The Academy of Governance where they met the world’s leading thinkers, critiqued legislation and earned PhDs. They now run huge provinces, Fortune 500 corporations, universities, space programs and, of course, government departments and the Peoples Daily reords their progress under headlines like, “How Rural Poverty Criteria Affects Mayoral Promotions.”


    [1] Daniel Bell and Zhao Bing Bing, The China Model.
    [2] Liaoning (pop. 45 million) is a northeastern Chinese province bordering North Korea and the Yellow Sea.
    [3] The Committee https://macropolo.org/the-committee/
    [4] Donald Trump says Tom Brady and the Patriots are just like China. Boston.com. By Steve Silva July 6, 2015

    • Thanks: Ilya G Poimandres
    • Replies: @FB
  126. Thank God this “scamdemic” was not planned long ago and shown to us through predictive programming
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=187&v=5krD8zJ6-bY&feature=emb_logo

  127. utu says:
    @anon

    There is on little problem with your hasbara. Those great strategic planners in China of yours forgot about one little thing that the West has 100% dominance over China in the soft power of creating global narratives with which it will turn China into a pariah nation in the eyes of everybody, a nation that everybody hates.

  128. Biff says:
    @TG

    I personally think this was either the result of the so-called “wet-markets” in China – long known to be the primary source of the annual flu epidemics

    I’ve been going to markets in Asia all my adult life and suddenly they are both the source of flu epidemics and “wet”.
    Unless it is raining the second one makes everything seem so ridiculous.

    (why the heck haven’t they been shut down??)

    Because people would starve?

    Try throwing some blame(buying food makes you sick!) at your big box corporate food monopolies and try to shut them down – take a guess at what might happen?

    • Replies: @fnn
  129. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Is that you, John “WE KNOW WHERE YOUR KIDS LIVE” Bolton?

  130. anon[114] • Disclaimer says:

    “hasbara”

    Your Mama, you purveyour of ad-homs.

    “the West has 100% dominance over China in the soft power of creating global narratives”

    Oh, really, “the West”? Last I checked there was a war in “The West” between two camps of elites of “The West” for our public consumption.

    “a nation that everybody hates”

    No, that would be your Mama’s “homeland”, Israel.

  131. Emslander says:
    @Tor597

    Except, it would be helpful if Ron placed somewhere prominantly on the home page that he is a card-carrying member of the “Resistance” against Trump, which this article finally reveals full blast.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  132. Polymath says:

    Too much attention here on things which could have other explanations and too little attention on the real puzzles and on those things which science can definitely settle.

    (1) It is solvable, and it will be solved, where and when were the first cases of the infection among the general public outside China. Almost everything else depends on that.
    (2) It is almost inconceivable that American agencies who had been plotting this would run it by Trump for approval first. It seems much more likely that the anonymously sourced report that our agencies knew about this in November is some kind of ass-covering to shift blame to Trump, whom these same agencies have been trying to take down for 4 years; which doesn’t help us discern whether they were also responsible for the pathogen in the first place, it’s consistent either way.
    (3) The genome has been out there long enough, with no one pointing out inconsistencies that have held up to scrutiny, that “wild”, “escaped from a lab”, and “was evolved in a lab” all look much more likely than “was designed directly by RNA editing”.
    (4) China’s behavior is much more consistent with accidental than with intentional release. They’ve obviously lied about the death toll and didn’t feel obliged to prevent their people from traveling abroad, but ordinary Communist wickedness explains that.
    (5) Travel between China and Iran and Italy explains the early prevalence there sufficiently, presuming genomic data we don’t yet have will confirm this.

    Conclusion: Too early to get locked in to origin theories, the usual suspects are taking advantage in the same way they would whether or not it was an intentional release. THIS WILL ALL BE CLARIFIED BY TESTING OF OLD TISSUE SAMPLES so I’m going to wait and see what those results say. The reports of early COVID outside China have not been confirmed, but come from researchers WITH REAL NAMES, so it WILL get figured out one way or the other and I’m holding my fire until then.

    P.S. Lieber is clearly a weird loose end that needs to be tied up. Is anyone trying to interview him?

    • Agree: john cronk
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  133. glib says:

    Let’s see. Here in the USA covid hit later, at a time when people have the lowest seasonal vitamin D (a major immune system hormone, with the population being 90%+ deficient). A fraction of the population being hit particularly hard has dark skin, further reducing the vit. D levels. That same fraction is over-represented among those who have metabolic syndrome (diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and the like), and that is related to all manners of immune system degradation. Then we have a medical system which looks only for profitable magic bullets, instead of trying a variety of cheap methods, each of which can increase the recovery rate by tens of percent.

    Finally we have lots and lots of nursing homes, unlike China. And a majority (more than 50%) of deaths comes from those places in Europe. Data from Italy suggests that privately run nursing homes are correlated with increased mortality, although it could just be extreme air pollution and/or other environmental factors. Data from Scandinavia suggest that nursing home size matters too, the smaller the better.

    Why should one be surprised that this thing is hitting harder in the West?

    • Agree: Cowboy, john cronk
  134. onebornfree says: • Website

    R.Unz:”By any reasonable measure, the response to this global health crisis by China and most East Asian countries has been absolutely exemplary,”

    Your transparent, never ending shilling for the murderous CCP is becoming more and more obvious, at least to myself. I’m starting to believe that this site is nothing more than a thinly disguised Chinese government propaganda outlet.

    As in other recent threads, you fully endorse the CCP’s criminal actions: lockdowns of [reportedly] 700 million Chinese citizens; literal lockdowns with citizens locked, even having their front doors welded shut by the “authorities”,for weeks. The idiotic [unless deliberate], Chinese “solution” has probably already killed 1000’s, if not 10’s or 100’s of thousands there via starvation alone, and the economic devastation caused in China will likely kill millions more Chinese in the years to come.

    But that is all “exemplary” in your opinion, right? “To make an omelette you have to break a few eggs”, right?

    R.Unz:”Everyone knows that America’s ruling elites are criminal, crazy, and also extremely incompetent.”

    Of course! “Everyone knows” that! [I wish].

    What you [and some of them] don’t know [or won’t admit to themselves] is that this is no less true of the Chinese government, or of any other government, for that matter.

    Reality fact: “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt  criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”or “improved”,simply because of their innate criminal nature.”   onebornfree

    Which means that believing/trusting official stories and figures doled out by competing criminal power structures, about _anything_, let alone actually supporting/promoting their idiotic and criminal acts [eg the Chinese, US and elsewhere lockdowns”], is a mugs game for useful idiots, nothing more. And yet, that is what you continue to consistently indulge yourself in here.

    And so it goes… No Regards, onebornfree

  135. Thanks for the excellent wrapup, Ron Unz. Your cui bono approach works like a super-chloroquine dose to zap the anti-China virus now spreading from U.S. legacy media. What passes for news media here in Europe is no better. But apparently there are islands of sanity outside the Western imperial heartland. If you read French, you may find it encouraging to read some real journalism on the source of the carona plandemic here from darkest Africa:

    https://www.sunuker.com/actualite/international/coronavirus-des-preuves-que-le-covid-19-trouverait-son-origine-aux-etats-unis/

    It even includes U.S. sources like Dr. Daniel Lucey who apparently can’t get a word in edgewise in the American press.

    • Replies: @Alden
  136. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    The same mendacious MSM that for three years howled at the moon that Putin had stolen the 2016 election for Trump is now barking like a mad dog about Covid being some kind of 21st Century version of the Black Death.

    Never mind that to get to the current figure of around 42,000 deaths, the CDC has been juicing the total number of dead by adding in those who died from a heart attack or stroke or some other medical complication, there was fear to be spread and by G-d, they were doing to scare the hell out of Americans, just like they did in the years after the Israeli masterminded 9/11 false flag.

    Like Mr. Atzmon has pointed out, the 2017-18 flu season was much deadlier, yet there was no lock-downs, quarantines and a complete gutting of the US–and the worlds–economy.

    The following may sound like a description of the current Novel Coronavirus pandemic: “The season began with an increase of illness in November; high activity occurred during January and February, and then illness continued through the end of March.” You guessed right, this is not the description of the current global Corona pandemic but actually how CNN described the outbreak of influenza in America in September 2018.
    Does it take a genius to figure out that the American 2017-18 influenza outbreak was pretty ‘similar’ to the current Novel Coronavirus epidemic?

    The first question that comes to mind is why didn’t America lock itself down amidst its catastrophic 2017-18 influenza as it has now? One may wonder why the CDC didn’t react to the ‘severity’ of the outbreak that was at least three times as lethal as the current Novel Coronavirus health crisis?

    https://gilad.online/writings/2020/4/20/is-amnesia-a-symptom-of-covid-19

    The Deep State thugs who are actually in charge of the US have some devious plan in mind with this Covid hysteria.
    Maybe they wanted to see how quickly Americans would give up their Bill of Rights. Or maybe they wanted to cover up the multi-trillion dollar bailout of those TBTF banks that we bailed out in 2009?

    Or maybe this the test run for their next batch of weaponized flu, the one that will get many killed and have people lining up for Mr. Know-it-all Bill Gates RFID chipped flu vaccine.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @freedom-cat
  137. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    Another explanation…

    The actual reason for the bombing was meant to cover-up NATO war crimes that were taking place almost daily, and the Chinese listening post located in the corner of the embassy that was bombed were intercepting orders issued by NATO which clearly revealed those crimes. The Chinese needed to be silenced and their operations ended, no matter the fallout.

    https://www.voltairenet.org/article177116.html

    In case you’r wondering what kind of war crimes your dear leaders were trying to cover up…

    https://web.archive.org/web/20120115150147/http://home.windstream.net/dwrighsr/a3820cf4d2861.html

    • Replies: @Ano0nymous
  138. Turk 152 says:

    My immediate gut reaction upon seeing the cartoon character version of a Muslim terrorist, Osama Bin Laden, was this is a fake designed to play on US xenophobia. He was obviously made for TV audiences.

    I assumed after Skripal and the endless Assad gas arracks, that our ruling elite have just become lazy and couldn’t even be bothered to create a plausible story to cover up their crimes, because the public is so stupid. How long did it take to determine it was a fraud, a weekend of casual reading?

    Putting a mob style hit on Venezuala’s President confirmed that they could care less what the Hoi Poloi think of them.

    If this is a US caper, it is the either the most ridicoulosly stupid one imaginable, or the most well thought out one in a very long time.

  139. I had not connected the intelligence reports (recently spilled out of the Deep State) with the obvious. Thanks, Ron, for pointing out that it’s hard to imagine how the NSA/CIA/whoever-collecting-part-of-the-85bln-we-spend-on-intelligence could report on this in November when the sources from which they would have derived that information (the Chinese government itself) didn’t know until December 31st, or shortly before that date when they reported to the WHO.

    Someone, in covering up for blowing the response to the virus, really dropped the ball.

  140. JQ says:

    Ill leave it at this :

  141. Scientists from the UK have a recent paper on the mutations of Corona-19.

    Here is part of the abstract:

    In a phylogenetic network analysis of 160 complete human severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-Cov-2) genomes, we find three central variants distinguished by amino acid changes, which we have named A, B, and C, with A being the ancestral type according to the bat outgroup coronavirus. The A and C types are found in significant proportions outside East Asia, that is, in Europeans and Americans. In contrast, the B type is the most common type in East Asia, and its ancestral genome appears not to have spread outside East Asia without first mutating into derived B types, pointing to founder effects or immunological or environmental resistance against this type outside Asia.

    And here are the findings in diagram form:

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

    I think these findings throw lots of water on any bioweapon claims. But others may differ in their opinions.

    It definitely does indicate that the virus did not come from a Wuhan lab or the Wuhan wet market. It originated in Southern China where most people knowledgeable about bat viruses expect bat viruses to originate.

  142. you are mistakenly assuming and given for granted that this epidemic is much more lethat than others,that the total closure is beneficial and not harmfull,that is the solution ,you are deciding who to try to save regardless of the millions of victims of this economic harakiri,and there are many epidemiologists who disagree with you.

  143. Post-Corona, there seems to be a lot of wannabes angling for one of Ron’s coveted golden showers, I mean stars.

  144. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    One more thought: The US has over 25 bio-warfare labs that are located next door to Russia and China that have been called out before for their sloppy or maybe deliberate release of pathogens.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-biological-warfare-program-in-the-spotlight-again/5654064

    How many of those kind of labs does Russia or China have in Mexico or Canada?

    None that I’m aware of.

    Like the old saying goes: “Admit nothing, Deny everything and Make counter-accusations.” Sounds like Humpty Trumpty’s Covid blame-shifting plan.

    • Replies: @Vuki
  145. @Jeremygg5

    The WHO too only had high praises for China’s transparency and efficiency.

    Would that be the same WHO that said chinese disease was not communicable between humans and that we should keep letting infected people into the country? That’s who we should trust? Or should we trust the communist government that shut down domestic travel to and from Wuhan, because they were trying to protect the rest of THEIR country, while still allowing international travel, because they wanted the rest of the planet infected?

    This virus may or may not have been engineered, and may have come from the lab or the wet market. These things are debatable. But what is absolutely not debatable is that once the virus was loose, China choose to DELIBERATELY infect the rest of the world. These are people whose numbers we should trust?

    • Replies: @Jeremygg5
    , @naill
  146. @Ozymandias

    “ Lol. I can’t believe you’re doubling down on this jackassery.”

    Once you realize that the alt-right is a limited hangout, it makes perfect sense.

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @Herald
    , @Ryan2
    , @Ryan2
  147. @hs4691506

    “… I think it strange that now we have all these cross-overs from the animal kingdom.”

    In actuality, we’ve regularly had these crossovers and almost all seem to emanate from somewhere in China, e.g.,

    1889–1890 Asian or Russian Flu Pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889%E2%80%931890_flu_pandemic

    1918-1919 “Spanish” Flu Pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Hypotheses_about_the_source Despite the name the most likely theory is that this pathogen, an H1N1 virus, originated in China and mutated to become highly lethal in Europe or European-settled countries as a result of WW I. S

    1957-1958 Asian Flu Pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957%E2%80%9358_influenza_pandemic

    1968-1969 Hong Kong Flu Pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

    2002-2004 SARS outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome

    2009-2010 Swine Flu Pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic A new strain of the H1N1 virus type that was responsible for the 1918-1919 Pandemic

    • Replies: @MacOisdealbh
    , @Alden
  148. Taking a scientific approach to American deep state biowarfare attack on China’s Wuhan district is telling in so far as Americans literally control tertiary education throughout the entire world via funding in the trillions.

    If the deep state wants to eliminate academics it can do so with merely a phone call to Law Enforcement branches at a moments notice so that research & hard drives can be confiscated and destroyed early on in investigations.

    Once the media & journalistic propaganda arms of state get hold of the official talking points to be disseminated the end game zero sum result is usually exactly what the state arms of propaganda have wanted all along.

    To be frank, I am an Intel thinker and am well aware of the details of the CIA led biowarfare attack on China, but attaining the required data in empirical form via Requests for Information from government is NOT going to ever yield synthesis required for scientific peer-review research.

    Bottom line is that the CIA had one CIA Agent/Operative deploy the nCov-19 in late October as the USA Military contingent was departing Wuhan district. The operative deployed the bioweapon via glass ampule smashed onto the ground to the entrance way for the Wuhan restaurant district near to the Wuhan Wet Market. Moreover, his CIA handler gave him the protocol & instruction on deployment of the bioweapon back in the United States of America long before the actual deployment.

    Lastly, Fort Detrick scientists developed the Chimera super-spreading viral pathogenicity with a herd of pigs in the USA before hand in around 2012. Logistics of setting up the Wuhan BSL-4 laboratory scientists for the false flag event of biowarfare were dependent upon academic arrests before hand so that deflection & impression management for governance would clearly be able to utilize plausible deniability where required.

    In sum, as one acutely aware of the bioterrorism that the United States of America has unleashed on the world covertly I, for one, can assure all that the US Deep State knowingly unleashed nCov-19 to undermine China’s meteoric rise in the financial world due to America’s incompetence writ large across the board since the Great Financial Crisis revealed that America is swimming naked and their Emperor is wearing no clothes to reveal his infinitesimally small Johnson in contradistinction to President Johnson’s Johnson which was historically infamous.

    P.S. The USA Deep State can get in line to lick my balls in deference to my superior intellect.

    Thank you, thank you very much!

    RW

    • Agree: Half Back
  149. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    First, can researchers take a look at this virus and determine with certainty whether it was artificially concocted in a lab or if it simply evolved out in the open? If so then that would help focus the discussion. If not then things will remain opaque.
    The Iranian government outbreak is strange but then people congregating with each other, like at ski resorts, pass it to each other. If it was a US biowarfare attack then how did US agents get access to them? They wouldn’t have the cover of some delegation to an event such as military games. But what was the effect on Iran? Zero. Some top leaders got sick and some older members died. They have replacements and the government continues without missing a beat. This idea that an ideal bioweapon would be highly contagious with a low lethal rate so as to tie up resources and halt the economy sounds good but in practice it’s hardly more than harassment. It slowed up the Chinese economy but that’s a temporary blip and they’re back now. The US and other countries are hardest hit economically. Many businesses will never recover. This is self-inflicted. The lethality of this virus looks to be increasingly lower and lower each time one looks despite all the Chicken Littles who were screaming that the sky was about to fall. Was there a purpose for that?
    The Wuhan outbreak coincided with the military games but things happen at random times as it is. People were crowded in there. The various plagues and viruses have been going from East to West for a very long time now. The problem is that currently there are many who have an interest in lying and misdirecting things which further muddy the waters.

  150. @Emslander

    What is crazy and funny is that supposed trump supporters thinks China would shrink it’s economy by 6.8% for the first quarter of 2020 to help Trump’s opposition.

    The same supposed supporters don’t even realized that the best way for trump to win the next election is to stamp out this damn virus asap. Denying is not going to work. Testing n quarantine combo is what would work. It is why trump changed his tune.

    Dumbasses. Crazy n stupid.

  151. denk says:

    Who’s a track record of extreme malfeasance against China, since ww2 ?

    1950 Korean war,
    1959 Tibet,
    1962 Indo./sino war,
    1965 [[[CIA/MI5]]] INdon genocide on ethnic Chinese.
    1989 TAM,
    1998 Indon pogrom , mass rapes on ethnic Chinese
    1999 BOmbing of Chinese embassy in ex Yugo,
    2001 Hainan spy plane, Chinese pilot died.
    2003 SARS1,
    2008 Tibet riots,
    2009 Xinjiang bloodbath,
    2013 Bird flu H7N9, Asia pivot
    2014 Xinjiang, HK, Mh370, bubonic plague, Ebola, Dengue,
    2018 bird flu, H7N9
    2019 HK, Xinjiang, swine flu, army worms,
    2020 SARS2, H5N1, locusts.

    All biowarfare attacks highlighted.

    • LOL: Wizard of Oz
  152. refl says:
    @Vaterland

    And there were also the proxy-war in Ukraine and the refugee crisis: the latter at minimum a fallout of US-Israeli wars in the Middle East and the Zionist assault against Libya; yet not unlikely itself a direct assault against Europe. And not only Willy Wimmer, closest adviser to our old chancellor Helmut Kohl, strongly suspected as much already back in 2015.

    Thanks for that context. It is exactly what I am trying to call attention to the whole time. Regardless, how much reality there is to Corona, my issue is the overall timing in the geopolitical context, with Europe being torn apart between the Angloamericans and China / Russia on the other side. That was the agenda anyway, so how is it possible that this threat appears at this very moment?

    It can be said that had Corona not happened, the powers to be would have needed to invent it.

    Else, in skimming the comments, I find that until now (with some 140 comments) there are hardly any discussions, but everyone pushing their own narratives.
    Mabe, it is possible to get away from the question, how and if Corona is deadly to the context that is developing. I have to admit that I did not take Corona serious enough from the start, not as an illness, but as a fundamental threat to our societies. In that sense, it is indeed a war.

  153. @hs4691506

    There was also some evidence that Chinese researchers under his supervision had smuggled samples of his work out of their labs and back to China. Chinese researchers, working in the USA and Canada, have a history of smuggling viral and other lab samples back ti China. It’s part of a much larger pattern of Chinese espionage and intellectual theft.

    A search on DuckDuckGo.Com using the following search string, “chinese scientists smuggling viral samples”, turns up a lot of useful information on smuggling of viral and other biological samples. (I no longer trust Google. DuckDuckGo is less censored and does not track its users)

    Similar searches using the strings “chinese intellectual theft” and “chinese scientific espionage” will provide a broader picture.

    BTW, I believe that Israel and the USA have both been conducting research into potential bio-weapons. I would not be surprised if the Chinese got a leg up on such research by espionage targeting both countries. Of the three, the USA’s research is probably the most benign/least vicious. I suspect that the Israelis have been ruthlessly researching and developing biological weapons, just as they did nuclear and chemical weapons. The Chinese have probably been doing bio-weapons research just as ruthlessly. The biggest concern with the Chinese is that, compared against Israel and the USA, their lab safety, security and containment procedures are lax to an obscenely dangerous degree. One can only hope that after the Wuhan outbreak, this attitude, if not the Chinese bio-weapons research, will change.

    • Replies: @denk
  154. This is a model opening argument for an ICC bill of indictment against the CIA command structure. The bird’s-eye view is exactly right – all of CIA’s gravest crimes have been most evident not at the detailed technical level but at the organizational level. CIA can shred all the MIPRs and RFPs and after-action reports they want, but the proof of all CIA crime is public information about the actions of CIA focal points in government. (Incidentally, one example you don’t mention is official obstruction, including CDC, of Helen Chu’s coronavirus testing. That would have shown that COVID-19 was far too widespread for a single introduction from Wuhan. Another example is the series of airport clusterfucks that muddled US haplotypes when Chinese researchers noted that they point to US origins.)

    The presumption of incompetence probably has its own CIA memo analogous to 1035-960. If they can get you to tacitly assume that CIA works in the national interest, but ineptly, then you misinterpret everything. CIA is a criminal enterprise with ongoing profit centers that fund opportunistic crimes from asset-stripping to aggression.

    When you’re using a banned biological weapon, domestic casualties confer important benefits:

    First, damage to the US can help obfuscate attribution. Philip Giraldi articulates that line in its clearest form, Why would the government shoot itself in the foot like that?

    Second, US contagion offers a pretext for domestic repression: house arrest; overt contact chaining illegally undertaken by NSA for decades; forcible derogation of your rights of assembly and association.

    Third, US economic devastation is used as a pretext for looting the fisc on an unprecedented scale. Blackrock now performs central planning on behalf of the Fed, forcing the state to guarantee a overwhelming volume of worthless and fraudulent securities.

    Illegal warfare that is difficult to attribute has one intractable problem. It’s a sneak attack in breach of the Hague Convention Relative to the Opening of Hostilities. That convention was the legal justification for the first use of nuclear weapons. So if Russia and China nuke the beltway into a sinkhole of molten basalt, that’s only fair.

    If it is established that COVID-19 is a banned biological weapon, this is self-evidently the gravest crime in world history. The attack manifestly constituted aggression with an absolutely indiscriminate weapon. It defies considerations of proportionality with unknown global effects. The Nazi regime was extirpated for much less.

    The evidence is very close to probative, and mounting.

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/18/breaking-exclusive-cias-covid-19-weaponization-program-outed-in-long-buried-ny-times-expose/

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/18/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/18/pravda-us-army-created-covid-19-in-2015-research-proofs-or-debunking-you-pick/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/274334a0

    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/all-roads-lead-to-dark-winter/

    https://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/

  155. Agent76 says:

    Apr 16, 2020 Corona Virus, Economic & Social Collapse: Prof. Michel Chossudovsky

    Corona Virus, Economic & Social Collapse: Bankruptcy, Debt & Poverty.

    [MORE]

    Apr 4, 2020 ΝYC-ΙCU DR unknowingly describes the EFFECTS of 60GHz on patients.

    Mar 16, 2020 CONFIRMED! 5G Forced Installation In Schools Nationwide During COVID-19 Lockdown

    Guys, you need to get involved and do anything you can to spread this information.

  156. @Tor597

    I couldn’t say it any better than Tor597.
    Americans are not capable of even thinking that their elites could be so evil.

    • Replies: @meena
  157. There is the question of natural vs artificial origin of the novel corona virus, and from my layman’s research and considerations it seems increasingly that an artificial origin is extremely likely. The pertinent technology is now widely available, there has been a massive ongoing effort in the field since the 2nd WW, and many researchers and knowledgeable people are drawing the conclusion of likely artificial origin: So, for example, George Webb’s work, or the Czech scientist Dr.Sona Pekova, PhD, who near the end of the video linked to describes the virus in such a way as to indicate a great likelihood of artificial creation.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmL7okhbVzU&feature=youtu.be

    There are many possible perpetrators. And a few likely suspects.

    The ultimate health implications of the new virus are impossible to say with certainty at this point: For example, Paul Craig Roberts’ website’s latest title is “Bad News From the Virus if Correct”, with the point being that there are now known to be a lot of different strains with presumably different potential for harm, but there may be many more not recognized.

    There are additional contextual considerations that will have consequences which are anyone’s guess. So for example, last year saw many widespread agricultural catastrophes and difficulties which were usually weather related. If the weather continues to be uncooperative, in conjunction with food production and transportation problems related to the virus, in conjunction with the African Swine Flu disaster, then human health and food security, and thus health, on a large scale may be affected.

    Another contextual consideration is the recent rapid and accelerating deployment of 5G technology, which many are concerned can make life more vulnerable to health problems. It may just be coincidental, but worth noting, that tiny San Marino, enclosed by Italy, boasted of being the European leader in the rollout of 5G technology, and is now the world leader in corona virus deaths per million, by a long shot (San Marino with 1179 deaths per million as of today compared to second place Spain with 455 per million, and yes, Spain has been among the most ambitious countries in rolling out 5G in many cities. And Wuhan was the very poster ‘child’ of 5G. Just saying.)

    Shutting down the world economy seems rather dire. But it may just be the impetus for a radical rethink of the basic structure and design of the global economic system.

    The global paradigm which in economic terms might be described as globalism, or ‘when private corporations rule the world’, or neo-liberalism, or plutocracy running amuck, or grasping for ‘global government’, or the aftermath of the chimera of ‘full spectrum domination’, or in the wreckage of Rockefeller’s and Kissinger’s et al wet dream, or democracy spurned, is now inescapably obviously retarded, dysfunctional: a fundamental design flaw if you want humanity and Earth to thrive. In short, the culture of deception.

    Someone has suggested as symptomatic of our present predicament a cartoon featuring Fauci with his bio-weapon declaring this as ‘the age of the Ork’, with crazed Bill Gates as Gollum wielding a syringe and gleefully chortling ‘my precious!’.

    The local, one’s back yard, the decentralized, the careful common sense community, the regional, and the actually democratic national, with the public interest protected by the public, and much honest discourse, as one basic design alternative.

    • Agree: Agent76
  158. vot tak says:

    Useful article by Unz which connects the dots well. One important dot which is missing, though, in his analysis of the psywar promoting propaganda that the virus leaked out of a lab in Wuhan, and is a Chinese biowarfare agent, is that this psywar originated with an israeli military-intelligence operative. One dany shoham. This individual was also deeply involved in the “iraq has wmds” psywar operation at the beginning of the century. More on that dot and how it connects to the others, later.

    A few days ago I wrote this about how the israeloamericans are framing their psywar campaign against China:

    The israeloamericans are working on a several level strategy which includes back-ups in my opinion. The israeloamericans are trying to cover all the bases at once.

    So they claim China created the virus in a lab, in case it gets out it was lab created, meaning israel or the usa created it in a lab. The israeloamericans claim the virus leaked out of the Wuhan lab in case evidence is found that israeloamerica deliberately planted the virus in Wuhan or it spread from a source in the usa through some other vector. The israeloamericans claim China mislead the world about the virus so people wont notice the reality that China has successfully thwarted the virus, while trump & co. have continued making it worse. The claptrap about China under reporting victims is a variation of the latter tactic. And so on.

    Is what is being reported in the following article “damage control”?

    Neither ‘lab’ nor ‘wet market’? Covid-19 outbreak started months EARLIER and NOT in Wuhan, ongoing Cambridge study indicates

    https://www.rt.com/news/486194-study-coronavirus-southern-china/

    Another vector in the israeloamerican preemptive strategy? Now that research is showing the virus may have been infecting people earlier and neither a market in Wuhan, or even Wuhan itself, may be where it originated?

    With regard to western response to the pandemic, especially american, the delay in israel’s trump colonial regime’s containment response to the virus tells me they deliberately wanted the virus to spread across the country and cause the ruckus it is now causing. The question is why israel had them do this.*

    * Compare the israeli response, IE: strong proactive containment strategy, to the weak responses in most zionazi colonies. It is clear there is an actual strategy underlying this difference. And it entails more than israel being sacrosanct.

    Keep in mind that trump, and his corrupt regime, are israel’s property. More specifically, they tepresent the israeli likud freakshow (netanyahoo and related subhuman garbage). Most of what trump says and the policies his regime follow, originate from tel aviv. Trump’s cowardly “blame China” campaign, duplicated by the zionazi western media (commonly misnamed the msm) is israeli psywar.

  159. @onebornfree

    See my post at 135 regarding three different variants: A, B and C. The most prevalent in Asia is B and the most prevalent variants in Europe and the US are A and C. So it could also be that A and C variants are more virulent than B.

  160. “By any reasonable measure, the response to this global health crisis by China and most East Asian countries has been absolutely exemplary, while that of many Western countries has been equally disastrous. Maintaining reasonable public health has been a basic function of governments since the days of the city-states of Sumeria, and the sheer and total incompetence of America and most of its European vassals has been breathtaking. If the Western media attempts to pretend otherwise, it will permanently forfeit whatever remaining international credibility it still possesses.”

    So saying, Ron Unz forfeits whatever credibility he might have retained by now acknowledging the data emerged from “the fog of war” he found himself pronouncing in a month or more ago.

    Like Unz, and after examining the relevant Chinese data, epidemiologists Knut Wittkowski( almost a month ago) saluted the Asian approach to handling the novel virus threat.

    Unlike Unz, Wittkowski revealed that what was salutary was the Chinese government’s allowing the populace to gain herd immunity before instituting any lockdown measures. (rendering the lockdown measures a mystery from a scientific point of view).

    So, and according to Wittkowski- a man with credentials relevant to this story, yet completely ignored by Unz’ investigative article- the incompetence of Western governments cited by Unz is the clean reverse of what he claims: it is the incompetence of ignoring what the competent Chinese did not ignore, namely, the sound scientific counsel to allow the virus to spread, granting the herd immunity to the populace which protects the elderly and fragile self-quarantining until that immunity is gained.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Franklin Ryckaert
  161. Anon[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @TG

    There’s 3 possibilities:

    1) Virus is US bioweapon attack on China
    2) Virus is China’s own bioweapon accident
    3) Virus happened in nature, and everybody is trying to profit off the crisis or contain/direct the damage to their own interests.

    That’s 66% percent chance it’s an accident.

    Government in power were sane enough to avoid nuclear war as recently as 40 years ago. Why would they be crazier today? Biowarfare is Mutually Assured Destruction, too. If people can model this away, please provide a link.

    • Troll: vot tak
  162. annamaria says:
    @swamped

    You are cognitively blind to the obvious — the ZUSA has become ZUSSR (minus excellent Soviet educational system). Before lamenting “Chinese despots” and “their contempt for civil liberties,” think for a moment about the fate of Assange (why he is in a high-security prison?) and about the Banksters on the march (the financialization of the US economy).

    What is the state of “liberties” in the US and the UK? — Gay parades. Quantitative Easings for eternity.
    Why some 1000 American military bases encircle the globe? Why 25 American biofare laboratories reside in Europe? You are cheerleading for Cheneys and Rubins (read General Smedley Butler). https://fas.org/man/smedley.htm
    http://armswatch.com/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk_

    Libya used to be a prosperous state with universal healthcare and excellent educational opportunities. Enter the “non-totalitarian” and “non-despotic” deciders to bring in “liberties.” First, the US/NATO expropriated Libyan gold, and then a regular business of “liberation” took place: since the “non-totalitarian” and “non-despotic” liberators entered Libya, a civil war commenced, the healthcare and educational systems have collapsed and slave markets sprang.

    Or perhaps you are proud of freedom of information in the US?

    This important story was immediately summarized in many of the world’s other most prestigious publications, but encountered an absolute wall of silence in our own country.

    How much trillions have been disappeared by the Pentagon? — 21 (twenty-one). A lot of money that could be used for initiating great national projects of all kinds.
    Why the US industries have been relocated to China? — Because this is what US corporations demanded and got. What deciders want, they get. Read General Smedley Butler, again.

    httpx://dilyana.bg/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/1.png

    • Agree: Ace
  163. denk says:
    @anon

    Another problem with your imagination is that it doesnt pass the Who Test kit

    Nobody has produced a smoking gun.
    Its all about probability.

    By all indications,
    A FUKUS FF is the most likely .
    Your CON theory reeks of the classic western projection..

    Bandits crying robbery

    • Replies: @anon
  164. @Tor597

    Yes Ron’s tribe is doing great because of this.

  165. MLK says:
    @Otto von Komsmark

    For many weeks President Trump and his political allies had regularly dismissed or minimized this terrible health threat, and suddenly now faced with such a manifest disaster, they have naturally begun seeking other culprits to blame.

    I stopped reading after this childish fib.

    • Agree: john cronk
    • Troll: vot tak
    • Replies: @36 ulster
    , @anon
  166. I’m a little worried about The Unz Review. This pandemic is already being used to consolidate the economy and The Powers That Be are likely to use it to settle scores and purge dissident voices.

    TruthDig is down and other media is likely to go down soon as ad revenue collapses. I would have advised ad revenue from foreign sources like Aeroflot (and others outside the U.S. Oligarchy), but airlines are collapsing and international travel is likely to be down for a while.

    Maybe just open a Patreon Account and put a link in the sidebar.

    It may be a good time to be extra cautious and gird your loins as they say.

  167. Jake says:

    Whatever anyone may make of Unz’s assessment, I think everyone not insane or evil or mindlessly jingoistic should agree with this: “Everyone knows that America’s ruling elites are criminal, crazy, and also extremely incompetent.”

    By the way – I hope Unz has changed his mind about the bombing of Serbia. Anytime Neocons assert the need to use violence to help Moslems, the reasonable man smells not a rat, but a million putrid rats.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  168. Tor597 says:
    @Pheasant

    Zerohedge used to be libertarian and antiestablishment but something changed and they are now right wing neocons.

    • Replies: @Mustapha Mond
  169. denk says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    I would not be surprised if the Chinese got a leg up on such research by espionage targeting both countries. [SIC]
    Of the three, the USA’s research is probably the most benign/least vicious[SIC]

    ROFLAMO

    How fucking old are you kid ?

    Back to your Harry Potter forchrissake
    This is an adult site.
    Do you want me to inform your mom ?

    • LOL: vot tak
  170. Jake says:
    @Tor597

    Correct. The Elites of the Anglo-Zionist Empire will get richer from all this, while the white American middle and working classes will get poorer.

    Much the same will happen in the UK and France and other European nations.

  171. RT says:

    This and many other analyses focus primarily on governments, USA government, Chinese communistic government etc. and their past misadventures as proofs for their involvement or not involvement in the current disaster. I would like to see at least one extensive analyse of possible involvement of the nongovernment governments. Their interests and gains from this situation. Regards!

  172. Tor597 says:
    @Jason Crew

    If the US had come away with minimal damage there would not be the outrage required to go to war with China.

    So America had to be infected and the pain had to be real.

    Also, while main Street Americans are feeling the pain, the elites have been bailed out and will buy assets on pennies to the dollar.

    There was a bubble that had to pop anyways, this way the elites get bailed out. Remember how many CEOs retired just before this hit?

    • Replies: @Jason Crew
  173. Cambridge geneticist discusses the three strains of Coronavirus:

  174. utu says:
    @Felix Culpa

    Another victim of Knut Wittkowski.

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  175. @denk

    Not the “war crimes” bit again. Look, the whole operation was one big war crime, and that according to the US Secretary of State. Same with Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq — overthrow of another state for no compelling reason. So what? War is war, and China can either participate or not. If it participate, it can expect to become part of the general destruction.
    Analogy — if somebody is in your house and gets violent, that’s a crime. You are legally able to protect yourself. If the person starts to run, you can’t shoot she/he/it because she/he/it is no longer a threat. Sure, the other she/he/it started the crime, but that doesn’t mean you can commit a crime of your own (shooting somebody when she/he/it isn’t an immediate threat). Should she/he/it turn around and start returning fire, well, it just might be that she/he/it is legally doing so.

    So enough of this “you stepped on a crack and so you’ve transgressed the law in one particular, so you are absolutely condemned” stuff. You want to play that game, people get tired of it, and it has a bad endgame. Try playing it on COVID-19. COVID-19 might listen to you and depart. Go, use your moral authority and save us all.

    • Replies: @denk
  176. FLgeezer says:

    Never let a crisis go to waste. The following borders on the hilarious and the propaganda never ends.

    https://www.local10.com/news/world/2020/04/21/israeli-survivors-remember-holocaust-amid-virus-quarantine/

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  177. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    “..if a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was & never will be.”

    http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/327

    From a Thomas Jefferson letter to Charles Yancey.

    Since the Israeli masterminded 9/11 false flag, the MSM has told us a gazillion lies about what DID NOT happen that day.
    When those lies started losing luster, we were told Bin Laden was killed, but they offered no proof, other than “Trust Us.’

    Then we started getting lies about ISIS, DAESH, al Nusra etc, that they were even worse than al CIA Duh, when in fact, they were started, funded, paid, protected and give air cover by the US/Israel and the Kingdom of Head Choppers.

    Now the same MSM is braying that Covid will be the end of the world, unless we give up our freedoms?

    Bull. We’re being lied to again and the sad part is, many are falling for this latest line of horse apples.

    In Coronavirus We Trust: Medical Surveillance State For A Gov That’s Experimented On You 239 Times

    https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/daily-wrap-up/coronavirus-we-trust-medical-surveillance-state-for-gov-thats-experimented-on-you-239-times/

  178. When are people going to realize that the mandatory vaccine is ready NOW – Gates, Fauci, Davos, the oligarchs, and the usual suspects just needed to lay the groundwork. It’s ready to go now. Doesn’t take much of a gedanken experiment to see the end-game here.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  179. @utu

    “Yes, what if the chief objective was not to hurt China by disrupting its society and economy but to make the whole world angry with China.”

    If the planning was like 9/11, then both of these objectives would have been carefully scrutinized and maximized.

    Bear in mind something, please: who says these bastards are finished unleashing designer bugs?

    Would it not be wisest for these evil geniuses to keep the bugs coming, intensifying the impact so that the continuously simmering anger of the increasingly desperate masses can be directed to boil over at the Chinese menace when the ‘elites’ deem it necessary and proper. And with exploding unemployment numbers, especially among the young, and no real short term job or career prospects, these psychopathic ‘elites’ have a ready-made source for boots on the ground, should that be mandated.

    Of course, I hope all this turns out to not be the case. But if 9/11 was any indication, these bastards will be brazen and shamelessly murderous.

  180. This site’s credibility is going down faster than the financial markets. It’s only good for entertainment value at this stage.

    • Disagree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  181. @Max Powers

    When you said that Ron Unz lost you with his defense of NATO in the unnecessary Serbian war, I hope that you read the rest of the article rather than stopping there. I, too, smelled a Bill Clinton obfuscation at the time, as I always do when any US president sends our troops to war. I’m a little surprised that Mr. Unz didn’t.

    However, I respect his honesty, and he more than redeemed himself in the rest of his well-researched and well-written article. It did much to bolster my belief that the CIA/Neocons are behind it. Although, discounting the unfairly derided Beltway outsider Mr. Trump, I’ve never considered the likes of such people as West Point grad SOS Pompeo as being incompetent. To paraphrase the former CIA head: “we lie, we cheat, we steal.”

    • Replies: @tomo
  182. But America and several European countries avoiding adopting these same early measures such as widespread testing, quarantine, and contact-tracing, and have paid a terrible price for their insouciance.

    For someone ordinarily quite careful in your use of terminology, you conflate the term quarantine with lockdown. This is usually being done these days in the media to make a lockdown seem less unreasonable to the insouciant public. Properly a quarantine is the isolation of the sick to prevent the spread of contagion to the healthy public. What we have are lockdowns, restricting the free movement of the healthy population. These have been resorted to out of the desire “to do something,” but unfortunately as you must know, there is absolutely no empirical evidence that lockdowns do any good when all is said and done, and they do considerable economic harm. Sweden used a relaxed social distancing approach without a lockdown, and their mortality rate is currently less than that of most countries that resorting to this authoritarian approach.

  183. @Quintus

    “Another financial reset was also long overdue, as Greg Mannarino and others have pointed out: the coronavirus cover was too perfect of a tool for deflecting the guilt from the Fed and the banksters; killing many birds with one stone, the virus is also a 2) powerful psy-op hurting China’s image in the world, 3) further delivering a strong blow to its export-driven economy; 4) it sets the stage for the cashless society (“dirty bills not accepted here!”), the advent of digital currencies and 5) top-down surveillance.”

    Exactly!

    This planned-demic is like a Timex watch for the PTB: the gift that keeps on giving.

    You are spot-on when you say that digital currencies and top-down surveillance will be enabled by this oh-so-convenient viral pandemic.

    Like I said, it’s a neoliberal zionist-neocon elitist’s wet dream come true, maybe even more than 9/11 was.

    I guess we all get to watch, wait and see what happens next……………. 🙁

  184. One thing I have been waiting for is confirmation that HIV is somehow involved in the virus, making it a chimera and tipping the scale towards bioweapon.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  185. @anon

    If Trump was in on it, he didn’t do much of a job making himself a hero, several missteps are noticeable in the view of 20/20 hindsight, even if he intentionally wanted to crash the economy he would have scripted it better.

  186. denk says:
    @Ano0nymous

    I’ve difficulty reading your incoherent rant, but this one sticks out…

    overthrow of another state for no compelling reason. So what? War is war

    Enuff said.

    No more comment.

    • Replies: @Ano0nymous
  187. 36 ulster says:
    @MLK

    Unz.com seems to be less a blog than an online asylum; Ron and most of the KrazyKommentariat have really flipped their tinfoil Trilbys this time. This site is worse than Infowars is reputed to be–yet utterly without the entertainment value. You wonder why Pat Buchanan, Steve Sailer and Bertie Woostershire continue to post on this site. And, yes, why I bother to comment.

  188. @Tor597

    “Zerohedge used to be libertarian and antiestablishment but something changed and they are now right wing neocons.”

    Their true colors are emerging for all to see.

    I recognized early on what exactly Zerohedge was about: sayanim-directed, intelligently controlled opposition. Very intelligently controlled, I should say.

    Or as I call it, “Zio-hedge”.

    The trick is to give lots of good analysis and establish credibility, and then on the absolutely critical issues, subtly reinforce the neocon narrative. Then, slowly over time, not so subtly. Then, when the moment is ripe, openly and strongly support the neocon narrative. Again, a very intelligent and effective technique.

    Sadly, we are now at the point of “openly” reinforcing the neocon narrative……..

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  189. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:

    Ron,
    Your article is very good! Thank you for shedding some light on this issue

    I would like to summarize a rebuttal to some of the points expressed in this article

    However, your chart depicting America and China economic trends is statistically misleading

    America started from a much higher bar than China, and it is harder for richer countries to grow. Furthermore, an additional dollar in per capita GDP for America is a less % growth than it would be for China.

    Here is the GDP per capita growth from the World Bank for America vs China.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=US-CN

    Hardly, what your graph shows at all. In fact, this shows America adding more in Per capita GDP in real terms than China over the last thirty years.

    It seems the issue is that you are thinking that China’s exponential growth will continue till the point where it strongly surpasses the USA, like the Coronavirus’s growth, but countries don’t work like that. Unless you want to believe there was some policy reason for why Japan went from 10% to 1% growth in ten years.

    Second, with respect to the domestic impoverishment of America, I think you are mistaken here. Most of those who are impoverished in America are immigrants and Black people, one group because of their recent arrival and location in America’s most expensive cities. The other group because of their lack of time preference, so they don’t save.

    America has a higher household savings rate than all of Western Europe and Japan.
    Per the OCED:
    https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-savings.htm#indicator-chart

    The US has three times the savings rate of Japan!

    Additionally, the US has ten times the household disposable income of China as of last year, though this may change with the coronavirus:
    https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/278698/annual-per-capita-income-of-households-in-china/

    Additionally, How did China identify the virus so quickly? It is fairly hard to tell, even from those who died. According your own article, China shut down when they had 11 deaths, and sequenced the genome when they had even less. That has never happened before, and I feel that is suspicious to me. The offical Chinese narrative is that the Wuhan Goverment dropped the ball, so how did they catch the disease so early?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
    , @antitermite
  190. Rahan says:

    An article by Mr. Unz is always worth the wait and then the read, no matter if I agree a 100%, 60%, or even just 20% with what has been written.

    A real delight, and a sort of Christmasy feeling. Which is a very important psychological boost for the likes of me in such weird, weird times. Thanks!

    • Agree: FLgeezer
  191. denk says:

    USAF excercise before 911
    http://911blogger.com/news/2015-09-17/air-defense-exercise-month-911-was-based-around-osama-bin-laden-carrying-out-aerial-attack-washington//

    UK/France War game before Libya invasion,
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/when-war-games-go-live-staging-a-humanitarian-war-against-southland/24351?print=1

    A Haiti Disaster Relief Scenario Tested by US Military One Day Before the Earthquake
    Humanitarian excercise before Haiti quake…
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-haiti-disaster-relief-scenario-was-envisaged-by-the-us-military-one-day-before-the-earthquake/17122

    Crimson [sic] Contagion,
    An year long excercise on pandemic from Red China prior to CV 19

    Another ‘excercise’ turning live ???

    • Replies: @denk
  192. The Winnipeg lab lead scientist, a Dr Plummer, dropped dead in Nigeria in early March.
    He more than likely added the HIV 1 content to the Wu V to allow it to spread since he had the MERS variant from 2014 on.
    His lab then had Wuhan Scientists escorted out by RCMP last summer.
    No info as to why was offered, and Plummer was buddies with the Harvard prof, and both were recipients of Epstien the rapists financial support.
    Ron always goes to the edge, but never ever steps off!!
    Epstein should be brought up, he gave many millions to the Harvard and MIT people for virus development!! Cui bono Ron, cui bono, by deception, make war!!!

  193. Not sure what to make of Mr. Unz’s piece here — there’s a lot of room for any number of suspects to emerge as the guilty party here … 

    One of the earliest questions I had was just how did this virus get into Iran — which naturally begs the question of who has the most visible and ongoing hatred of Iran — other than israel — and their stooge, the United States.

    The Newsweek article cited here about the class action lawsuits even mentions one of the plaintiff attorneys: “But Klayman claimed he has “whistleblowers with firsthand knowledge” of China’s involvement in the viral outbreak who are currently residing in Israel and the United States and who can help substantiate this charge.” So … just who is it among ‘whistleblowers’ that reside in israel and in the United States (likely dual citizenship folks) — other than israeli nationals?

    And, from this article: “But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior.

    ” … Across the entire world the only political elites that have yet suffered any significant human losses have been those of Iran, and they died at a very early stage, before significant outbreaks had even occurred almost anywhere else in the world outside China. Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iranian ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?”

    Even allowing for Iran’s involvement by the chinese in its BRI — how can anyone explain the virus so quickly targeting the elites in Iran’s ruling class — certainly they don’t hang around with the chinese in Iran or elsewhere, do they?

  194. ld says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Your list is too small. I laugh at these comments regarding China’s lies and crimes. Americans are surely the most gullible people on the planet. They know their corrupt government steals and lies to them daily yet they can still be manipulated to jump on the bandwagon of blame and hate towards anyone at anytime with a few inciteful articles from the media.
    let me add to your list

    [MORE]

    MLK
    JFK
    Ruby
    USS Liberty
    911
    Venezuela
    Honduras
    Haiiti
    Hiroshima
    Vietnam
    Syria
    Palestine
    Russia
    Ukraine
    Libya
    Epstein
    Afghanistan
    32 Trillion dollars missing from the pentagone
    All Presidential Elections

    Hiding their own crimes against humanity, their government drug trade/sex trade/ chemical and biowarfare against poor countries.
    The US of Israel… so exceptional.

  195. @Mustapha Mond

    Agreed . Like 9/11 there is plenty of evidence in the predictive programming/revelation of the method/social conditioning that the Coronavirus pandemic was many years in the making see, for example : “WTF? Olympic Opening Ceremony 2012-NHS” YouTube . Yes, the London 2012 Olympic Games opening ceremony revealed part of the plot of the Coronavirus plandemic. I was expecting that something like this was going to happen ,but figured the cabal/cult/globalists/freemasons wouldn’t try to pull it off until Americans were disarmed but , when you have total control of the media , it is easy to create hysteria and brainwash the public into believing that the Coronavirus, which is probably no more than the flu ,is the plague and will wipeout mankind unless everyone is locked-down . As another commenter has noted ,they probably could not have pulled off the international Coronavirus psyop 10 to 20 years ago because they did not have control and ownership of the worldwide massmedia . septemberclues.info has a good, short essay on “The central role of the news media on 9/11.” Unless you stop relying on news from NPR, MSNBC, New York Times , Washington Post, Fox News , CBS , NBC ,etc,etc you will remain brainwashed and unable to understand that we are living through a planned-demic with a frightening agenda .

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  196. @anon

    “Please do not comment on things you clearly don’t understand. It is estimated that no more than a few percent of the American population has been exposed to Sars2 (Covid-19).”

    The key word is “estimated”. No one knows (not even you) the actual number of exposed Americans to the Wuhan virus. There have been some small random samples done by Dr.Bhattacharya that indicate that there is actually a large number of Americans that have been infected but are asymptomatic and that the final mortality rate will be closer to the annual flu or 0.1% to 0.2% instead of the guesstimate of 3%. The early studies are too small to think they are representative of the nation but the results indicate that larger studies are necessary in order to support nationwide policies, which are currently being made on hunches not science. About 60,000 to 80,000 died of the flu during the 2017 season when vaccines were available, so a large number of deaths during the flu season are not unusual and never required closing down the economy.

    [MORE]

    Gov. Cuomo was screaming at the top of his lungs that he needed tens of thousands of ventilators, thousands are now sitting in his warehouses unused. So much for estimates. Most of the early estimates were wrong by exaggerating the death rate, which turned out to be only a guess rather than based upon science.

    The CDC has been derelict in its duties over the years and has been giving poor advice. There are other experts in the field that have alternative views that are being ignored or dismissed and should at least be considered.

    Prof. Johan Giesecke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=bfN2JWifLCY&feature=emb_logo

    Dr. John Ioannidis

    Dr. Jay Bhattacharya

  197. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    I have been reading much about Covid-19, but am waiting for anyone, in or out of government, trying to blame China and/or exonerate Uncle Sam to deal with a particular point that anyone can easily appreciate using only a timeline:

    The US needs to answer this question: HOW could US ‘intelligence sources’ possibly have known in November – or even October – of a potential pandemic of COVID-19 that would erupt – specifically in Wuhan – two months later? (Or that was already erupting in Wuhan at the time, unbeknownst to the Chinese?). I believe the entire world would demand the answer to this.

    So far, nothing. No refutation, no rationalization, just … silence. Like WTC-7, is this Achilles’ heel from which the Establishment can only limp away?

    I don’t know who, what, when, where, or why this infection(s) began. But I’m certain that anyone dodging that particular question wants me not to.

  198. MLK says:
    @36 ulster

    Yeah . . .

    In 2016, when I finally cancelled by NYT subscription, I was asked why I was doing so. I explained that I didn’t like having my intelligence systematically insulted.

    Like, I think, most UR readers, I’m game for pretty much anything as a general proposition.

    But poor Ron couldn’t make it more than 100 words into a droning 7,400 words with discrediting himself.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  199. anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:

    When CIA whacked JFK, the whole world outside the US iron curtain knew, but too bad. When CIA blew up OKC, the whole world knew, but hey, it’s their business. When CIA knocked down the WTC, on the second try, and blew up the Pentagon a bit to start a war, the whole world knew, but Russia was tits-up, unable to do anything about it.

    This is different. CIA’s illegal germ warfare is a maleficium, in legal doctrine going back to Grotius. CIA wronged the whole world, and the whole world has a joint obligation to hold CIA responsible. Russia and China made a missile gap for real, so now they can do it.

    This is war. This is the very beginning of the world war that will end the CIA regime:

    https://tass.com/world/1146127

    Gina’s gonna swing for this.

  200. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    One problem with the chart that can be fixed to make it more representative is that the two countries should start from the same base of comparison. If you use two different bases, then you get the wrong comparison.
    For instance, if you measured the US from China’s base in 1980, the US added 40k in per capita gdp in the 40 years, reflecting a 4000% increase from China base in contrast to the 1400% increase that China had.
    If you use the same base, then America is what looks like a superior country.

  201. @Mustapha Mond

    ZH isn’t the only site whose true colors are showing…

  202. annamaria says:
    @antitermite

    Unbelievable. A truly gifted researcher destroyed on the totally idiotic charges:

    Charles M. Lieber (born 1959) is an American chemist and pioneer in nanoscience and nanotechnology. In 2011, Lieber was named by Thomson Reuters as the leading chemist in the world for the decade 2000-2010 based on the impact of his scientific publications. He is known for his contributions to the synthesis, assembly and characterization of nanoscale materials and nanodevices, the application of nanoelectronic devices in biology, and as a mentor to numerous leaders in nanoscience.

    Awards:
    Feynman Prize in Nanotechnology (2001)
    MRS [Material Research Society] Medal (2002)
    ACS Award in the Chemistry of Materials (2004)
    NBIC Research Excellence Award in Nanotechnology, University of Pennsylvania (2007)
    Inorganic Nanoscience Award, ACS Division of Inorganic Chemistry (2009)
    Fred Kavli Distinguished Lectureship in Nanoscience, Materials Research Society (2010)
    Wolf Prize in Chemistry (2012)
    Nano Research Award, Tsinghua University Press/Springer (2013)
    IEEE Nanotechnology Pioneer Award (2013)
    Willard Gibbs Medal Award (2013)
    MRS Von Hippel Award (2016)
    Remsen Award (2016)
    NIH Director’s Pioneer Award (2017 and 2008)
    John Gamble Kirkwood Award, Yale University (2018)
    Welch Award in Chemistry (2019)

    On January 28, 2020, Lieber was arrested on charges of making false statements to the U.S. Department of Defense and to Harvard investigators regarding his participation in China’s Thousand Talents Program… According to the Department of Justice’s charging document, there are two counts of alleged crime committed by Lieber. … The DOJ believes Lieber’s statement was false…

    Alleged counts. The DOJ believes. Yet the DOJ never tried to arrest Madam Ghislaine Maxwell whose crimes have been confirmed unequivocally. Any news of the arrest of Mossad-connected Mr. Lauder who stole American technologies? https://www.newcoldwar.org/mega-group-maxwells-and-mossad-the-spy-story-at-the-heart-of-the-jeffrey-epstein-scandal/

    As if deciders have decided that Charles Lieber knew too much to believe in their profitable fables.

  203. MarkinLA says:

    The only way “the US government did it” makes sense is if this was happening this coming November after Trump has been reelected. If the Deep State did it without Trump’s approval, somebody will talk just like John Soloman claims FBI agents told him of the Russiagate conspiracy at the FBI while it was getting underway. Somebody would have alerted somebody loyal to Trump what was being planned. Remember Trump had to give the order to kill that Iranian general. The Deep State (full of Israel’s toadies) didn’t even do that on their own.

    Of course, there is an answer for everything. It even makes more sense for Trump to do it now so he can fix it. The Deep State did it but Trump now has to cover for them or risk the world finding out how incompetent he is.

  204. Rahan says:

    Concerning “wet markets”, I’d just like to add that 99% of those are normal “butcher’s markets” with lamb, beef, pork, chickens, and sea produce, and 1%, in specific parts of the country, selling all the Cthulhu fhtagn stuff.

    So China reopening some wet markets now is an argument neither for, nor against the zootropic theory. Because I’m pretty sure they’re reopening the “lamb and chicken” wet markets, not the “H.R.Giger’s nightmares” ones, such as the one in Wuhan that is one of the three possible origins.

    1) Wuhan wet market
    2) Wuhan lab
    3) Wuhan based foreign troops taking part in the military Olympics

    Has to be one of those three. Maybe the third was even accidental, but…

  205. Dr Andrew Kaufman exposing the ‘Covid-19’ magic trick – the sleight of hand that transformed society

    • Replies: @utu
  206. There’s some interesting information in the article for sure, but it seems to me that if the US were to perform clandestine bio weapons attacks on another country, the Middle East and Russia would surely be the primary targets. We rely on China for a lot of things, such as virtually all the goods sold at Walmart and China owns a great deal of our debt, so it would seem to me a financially strong China is in our interest.

    Moreover, plagues and epidemics, especially coronaviruses, have started in the far east as long as can be remembered.

  207. Trinity says:
    @Anonymous

    This is about the most common sense post I have read on this site. SPOT ON. OUR current problems in regards to immigration, racial issues, Black criminality, and this (((virus))) can all be traced to one group for the most part. Btw, I was in NYC about the same time perion in ’83-’87 and haven’t been back since, but from what I understand, it is far worse today. I actually didn’t find it that bad back then even though crime and drugs were out of control. Probably because I was a twenty-something and having fun.

    Anyhow, as you said, WHY in the hell do ANY Americans, much less White Americans ALLOW RACIST JEWISH SUPREMACIST organizations have so much power over them. It isn’t as if the ADL or $PLC try and hide their hatred for Whites. I would have no problem for any organization whether it be Black, Jewish or Hispanic fighting against racism, but lets face it, these organizations aren’t fighting against racism, they main goal is to take away the rights of Whites or demonize WHITES ONLY.

    “Life isn’t complicated.” And this (((virus))) isn’t either. This shit was MANUFACTURED and we can only guess by whom and what their future intentions are down the road. As usual the usual suspects have already pretty much revealed themselves to anyone out there really watching. For the WILLFULLY ignorant ostriches and chinadidit people, well, they must like be lorded over by a tiny group of people who don’t give two shits about them or their children.

  208. @Thulean Friend

    the response of the West has been utterly atrocious either way.

    What do you people wish happened — Trump-issued national lockdown order back in January? Why do the death counts need to be artificially inflated if this virus is as deadly as the media says?

  209. The American media is run by jews. It’s amazing how the great counter-semite, Ron Unz, seems to be unaware of this fact.

  210. annamaria says:
    @Gaius Gracchus

    The US intelligence services knew about the virus in the middle of November 2019 (before Chinese) and alerted Israel, NATO, and the US government about the “emerging disease in Wuhan.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/

    The US had the epidemics of a similar ‘lung virus’ (vaping disease) in January 2019 (a year before the announcement of the epidemic by Chinese). https://phpa.health.maryland.gov/OEHFP/EH/Pages/VapingIllness.aspx

    These injuries often seem like pneumonia, but they are not caused by an infectious disease, and they do not improve with antibiotics. Respiratory symptoms reported include: shortness of breath, chest pain, pain on breathing, and cough. Other symptoms reported by many patients include: fever, chills, nausea, weight loss, vomiting, diarrhea, or abdominal pain.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @lulu
  211. Whether plausible or not, such accusations carry the gravest international implications, and there are growing demands that China financially compensate our country for its trillions of dollars in economic losses.

    Aren’t you comdedians Trillions deep in debt by the Chinese?
    Since you’d never pay back anyway, they are in the face saving position to grant you very generous debt forgiveness.

  212. utu says:
    @Anon

    “Unless you want to believe there was some policy reason for why Japan went from 10% to 1% growth in ten years.” – Absolutely, result of policy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

    And China has the highest saving in terms of percent of their disposable income

    • Replies: @Anon
  213. @Mustapha Mond

    Not to mention, Mr. Brave New World (how appropriate your name is), it fits in nicely with Bill Gates’ plan for a massive reduction in world population. What freedom-loving young proles will want to form families and bring children into such a dystopia? Already, US whites are well below replacement rate and dropping. As of 2018 it was 1.73 babies per woman, 16% below replacement rate, the lowest rate ever recorded. Asian Americans are even lower at 1.525 (per the World Atlas).

  214. @Chet Roman

    there things that are kmown:the almost universal economic damage that stopping the economy,as if it were a ball game,would bring,guaranteed

  215. @Ozymandias

    Just as I have been saying for a long time now, all you China-did-its are quarter-a-post troll farm trolls.

    China-did-it trolls agree implicitly with our owners, and yet act like, ooh, they’re big radicals. You hapless trolls.

    • Agree: Trinity
  216. We all have one hand tied behind our back. There is nobody that I know of presenting information from inside the border of China to compare with Ronald Unz and his collaborators at unz.com. I have seen exactly one document in the last two years. It was a post on medium.com which purportedly was written by a Chinese ex-pat graduate student in British Columbia with google earth images analyzed to show the proliferation of concentration camps in Xinjiang for the retention of young male uyghurs.

    Every single time I saw this document referenced on the internet it was followed up within an hour by a shower of posts from all over the place that it was CIA fake news.

    Basically at most we know about 1/2 and it is tough to know what to do with that.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  217. @36 ulster

    Because articles with stated evidence linked to articles/research/legislation where it is taken from (unlike the MSM, that links nothing other than its own circle-jerk), and some implicit acceptance that the reader should have the freedom to decide for themselves – rather than being spoonfed ‘truths’ agreed upon somewhere ‘up high’ – offers people enough respect to allow them to accept that the webzine is not an ideological printout, but a spectrum of ideas, to be evaluated by the reader. This is a contract with consideration.

    We have no truths from our elected leaders, or their stenographers in the MSM though.

    When Trump says ‘blame China’, most of us see a bankruptcy merchant peddling a lie to weasel out and default on 1 trn $$ (Martyanov said it first methinks!) – cause that’s what he does, and that’s what he knows.

    Unz offers a fairly balanced approach to conspiracy theory – not conspiracy hypothesis. Ain’t seen any article on some dude claiming he got anal probed by little green men without any even anecdotal evidence.

    This place debates the smoke, often without the fire. But it’s a good start to some explanation for some fire. Much of the rest of the net doesn’t look at the smoke, but instead distracts its audience with some other eye candy.

    But hey, is it fair to complain – some people enjoy WWE!

    • Disagree: Manfred Arcane
  218. @utu

    There’s nothing like attacking the person (Wittkowski himself) in place of his point ( herd immunity already gained by Asians before lockdown) to demonstrate your bona fides.

    Thanks for your back-handed admittal that you can’t rebut his conclusion.

    • Replies: @utu
  219. I have been trying to get this across for an age. It’s very simple. Anybody who says China did it is suspect. Not only does the import of their message suggest that the China-did-its are ruling-class-hired trolls, the trolly smartass tone suggests it, not to mention the illiteracy.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  220. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Other Side

    “The drastic changes in the Balkans in the 1990s and the disintegration of Yugoslavia in particular have resulted in a large number of publications attempting to explain the break-up of this country and the political developments in the Balkans. Some of these publications deal partly with the local Muslims who were engaged in the Balkan conflicts but, with some exceptions, they are focused mainly on recent developments, with less attention paid to the historical contexts in which the Muslim nationalist movements were shaped. Although religion played a more important role in the nation-building process of the Bosnian Muslims than in that of the Albanians, there are very few studies that examine the reasons for this and the impact of Islam on the Muslim nationalist movements in historical perspective. The following article examines from a comparative perspective the role of Islam in the Bosnian Muslim and Albanian national movements from the Ottoman period up to the end of the Cold War. The Sunni Muslims of Bosnia and the Albanians, who are divided into three religions and a variety of sects, present contrasting societal structures for the analysis of different aspects of Islam.”
    Would you like to read the rest of this article…
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233460310_The_Bosnian_Muslims_and_Albanians_Islam_and_nationalism

    More reading…
    “Immediately after the fall of communism in Albania in 1991, Arab Islamic fundamentalists infiltrated the mosques in the country, which is 70 percent Muslim. The interlopers represented the Saudi Wahhabis and the Egyptian disciples of today’s al Qaeda leader Ayman Al-Zawahiri. In spring 1999, a dozen of Al-Zawahiri’s acolytes, known as the “Albanian Returnees,” were deported from the eastern Adriatic republic to Egypt, tried, and sentenced to death or extended prison terms for terrorism. The “Returnees” had been told by their “sheikhs” to stay in Albania and avoid going to Kosovo, where NATO military forces were, by that time, thick on the ground. But Albania booted them out with alacrity. Evidence in the case of the “Albanian Returnees” proved extremely important in tracing the evolution of al Qaeda’s Egyptian predecessors.”

    https://www.islamicpluralism.org/2033/arabs-iranians-and-turks-vs-balkan-muslims

    we were all so suckered.

  221. @CanSpeccy

    Is Canspeccy a low grade government agit prop agent or what? I have heard that snide voice under so many different names all across the comment columns of this great dictatorship of ours.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  222. utu says:
    @anon

    Thanks. Perhaps you could write more on how to cover tracks when introducing synthetic virus.

    I know practically nothing about microbiology but was curious how one could go about fooling the detective into believing that virus is natural.

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/#comment-3831693
    New virus makers could go around the problem altogether by creating the intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the natural environments (like bats and pangolins) and then having them discovered by a ‘friendly’ scientist and published and cataloged in the virus directory. So when the suspect new virus is studied, its natural antecedents would be waiting in the catalog to be found to show a plausible natural evolutionary path.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/corona-cost/#comment-3768878
    Probably not if the bioengineering is done with finesse. You find a known virus in nature (in the database of known viruses) that requires minimum number of modifications to obtain the desired gain of function. Furthermore you can create intermediate stage viruses and introduce them into the nature (some animals) and then have your trusted scientists to discover them and upload them to the database of known viruses. So when the culprit virus is identified during the epidemic and cross checked against what is in the database it may appear as it is a product of natural random mutations from its known precursors.

  223. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    Will the US pay reparations for Iraq, Syria, Libya, and rest of them?
    Will the US pay reparations to Iran for wrongful sanctions? After all, Iran has no nukes while another country in the Middle East has lots of Bombs.
    Will US globalists pay Russia reparations for ravaging the economy in the 1990s?

    Will Merkel pay reparations to rest of Europe by welcoming all those migrant-invaders?
    Will Israel ever pay reparations to the Palestinians?

    There is morality in any of these demands. It’s all gangsterism. An extortion scheme by ‘made nations’ that never need to pay for their actions.

  224. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Gorgeous George

    Although not the main focus of the article, this excerpt from it is well worth refuting – especially given the reputation of this venue for seeking out valid counter-establishment views.

    At the time, I was overwhelmingly focused on domestic political issues, so I only paid slight attention to our one small military operation of that period, the 1999 NATO air war against Serbia, intended to safeguard the Kosovo Albanians from ethnic cleansing and massacre, a Clinton Administration project that I fully endorsed.

    Quite disappointing. In the two year period before the aforementioned NATO bombing (aggression IMO and that of some others), no more than 2,000 were killed in Kosovo fighting – a figure that includes 500-600 Serbs, thereby making them the greater per capita victim based on their % of the population in Kosovo. Moreover, the murder rate in some US cities of that period wasn’t less according to Pat Buchanan and some others.

    During this very same period, a noticeable number of Kurds in Turkey were dying as a result of Turkish military action. There’s also the put mildly suspect manner of the KLA. Hence, the 1999 bombing campaign against Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) is something worthy of criticism for its hypocritically inaccurate basis.

    I’d be surprised if any of the regularly featured Russocentric contributors at Unz (who’re by no means the only quality sources of that type around) will find much, if any disagreement with these observations.

    • Agree: Felix Krull
    • Replies: @Herald
  225. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Utu,
    I won’t deny the harmful nature of the plaza accord, but China’s growth has gone from 14% to 6%. Do you think that Chinese policy has substantially gotten worse over the last ten years?
    My point is that exponential growth just doesn’t remain over time, and countries approaching the frontier of development slow down tremendously.
    China’s savings is amazing, but they are still far from the frontier. Their savings rate will be like the other East Asian nations soon enough, Japan used to have the same high savings rate too, now it is just 2%.
    US is actually an outlier in high savings among developed economies.

    The point I had about Ron’s graph is that it was misleading. If you use the same base of comparison between China and the US, the US is shown to grow *much* faster than China. Using two different bases allows China to look really good and the US really bad. but it is misleading. If you did the same thing with Singapore, you would find the exact same divergence. But, I really doubt that anyone thinks that Singapore is less successful than China.

    Another example is that Kenya grew its per capita GDP by 700% and America 100%, but Kenya added 5k in per capita GDP and the US added 30k in per capita GDP since 1980. Figures can be misleading…

    • Replies: @utu
  226. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @36 ulster

    Unz.com seems to be less a blog than an online asylum; Ron and most of the KrazyKommentariat have really flipped their tinfoil Trilbys this time.

    And anudda’ hasbara agent outs him/herself.

    When your Kosher Komrades couldn’t fool us with their psychotic rantings that all ME problems are either the Palestinian or Syrian or Iranians fault and that Israel truly does have the world’s most moral army, they send in the junior varsity to impugn our sensibilites by claiming we should all be wearing tin foil hats.

    The gig is up Komrade, all your lies, from the phony holocaust, to the Israeli masterminded 9/11 false flag, to the lies about ISIS, to lies about those TBTF Wall Street gangster banks to the Covid hysteria are being uncovered, so better get those Bill Gates, Israeli made RFID chip vaccines on the double, so you can have excellent crowd control and no one will ever doubt your lies and BS again.

  227. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    If this was bio-warfare, it was probably globalist agents within the US, the kind of people who were tracking the 9/11 terrorists and knew what was up but didn’t inform US agencies about the knowledge they had. If anything, they secretly guided the terrorists. It was like sweeping-a-rock in the sport of curling. The idiot Muslim terrorists were ‘swept’ or ‘curled’ real good.

    As venal as Trump is, I can’t imagine him cooking up something this crazy. If anything, his slowness to react suggests he had no idea what was up. Same for men like Boris Johnson.

    For the rogue globalists, it was killing two birds with one stone. Smear China(ally of Russia and backer of Iran) around the world and use the crisis as excuse for levying financial burdens on it — like in the Age of Empire when any move on the part of Chinese to gain independence was countered with financial burdens — AND also to exploit the crisis to destroy Trump’s economy and shut down anti-government protests around the world.

    Entire nations were sanctioned by the US. And now, the chicken have come home to roost. This globalist power that used the US to sanction other nations decided to sanction the US itself to choke out Trump.

  228. annamaria says:
    @The Real and Original David

    Have you cheerleaded for sending other peoples’ children to fight the Wars for Israel in the Middle East?
    Still believing the Cheneys and Obamas and their fledglings in the US government?
    Not wise.

  229. jo6pac says:

    Yes, sadly Amerikas govt. is that sinisor and they really don’t care how many Amerikans and other citizens of the world they kill. It’s all about being the biggest bullie on the planet.

    Thanks UNZ for waking up;-)

  230. @Felix Culpa

    So if the Chinese authorities were so “wise” to let herd immunity develop naturally, why were they so “unwise” to organize a mass lockdown after that ? That cost their economy trillions.

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  231. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ploni almoni

    Is Canspeccy a low grade government agit prop agent or what?

    Yes, that’s right. I get five bucks a comment from the CIA, which I think is lousy pay and I’m demanding more. Otherwise, I’ll just express my own opinion and crush idiots like you, fony alimoni, with real arguments.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
  232. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @swamped

    President Trump now faces the daunting dilemma of how to protect the society while at the same time not displaying the same disdain for political & civic freedom that is the hallmark of the CCP. An end to America Empire would be a good thing – the President knows that, as he again reiterated the trillions misspent in the M.E. at his daily press conference today – but this isn’t the way to do it. Only a Chinese communist or fellow traveler could believe that.

    In other words, American Empire should end but can’t because China Bad. It’s the same/lame old song.

    Btw, free speech is pretty much dead in Canada and EU. And Europeans can be fined or jailed for merely saying their nation belongs to them. See what happens to a Frenchman who says France belongs to the real French, not to Africans, Asians, and Muslims. Germans had no say in Merkel’s welcoming of invasion. And UK is a perfect demonstration of Anarcho-Tyranny. And whatever one thinks of Charlottesville, it was a case of the state violating Constitutional principles and, worse, prosecuting its attendees who were the wronged. While US is far freer than China as yet, it’s moving increasingly toward Canadian levels of globalist control.

    Now, China is no ideal society, but what should we care what happens IN China? China is not invading other nations or sanctioning them. If it is sanctioning some, it is under pressure from the US, especially the Jewish Lobby.

    But worst of all, US keeps projecting its own hegemonism on other nations. It moves up to Russia’s doorstep and then accuses Russia of aggression. It has naval bases all around China but then accuses China of expansionism. China wants to regain control of the territories around itself, just like the US has no foreign navies encircling it. The problem is the imperialist legacy that allowed the West, lastly the US, to gain hold of Asian Pacific with naval bases in its satellite nations like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and others.
    Chinese policy is to ensure national security by gaining control of seas around China. US policy is to maintain imperial hegemony by planting US military bases as trip-wires in Asia, Middle East, and Europe. In 25 years, it will be 100th anniversary of the end of World War II, but US military still occupies much of Europe and Asia. And it set up bases all over Middle East to boot. And it threatens to topple regimes in Latin America, esp Venezuela. At least during the Cold War, there was the communist threat as half-rational excuse. Now, it’s pure gangsterism and tribal chauvinism of Jewish globalists.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  233. DB Cooper says:

    Don’t know what to say about this article but the map of the PRC is fucking ugly. Looks like a bit chunk (Mongolia) has been bitten off from the top and a smaller chunk (South Tibet) has been bitten off from the bottom.

  234. geokat62 says:

    For many weeks President Trump and his political allies had regularly dismissed or minimized this terrible health threat, and suddenly now faced with such a manifest disaster, they have naturally begun seeking other culprits to blame.

    The obvious choice is China…

    No, the obvious choice is the Imperial College London study:

    [MORE]

    The report was the key factor that triggered the U.K. and U.S. governments to suddenly shift from a comparatively relaxed position on the virus to draconian community mitigation measures. The New York Times reported that Ferguson has shared his projections with the White House task force and sent a copy of the report days prior.

    The Times also reported that “with ties to the World Health Organization and a team of 50 scientists, led by a prominent epidemiologist, Neil Ferguson, Imperial is treated as a sort of gold standard, its mathematical models feeding directly into government policies.”

    In a Twitter thread Thursday morning, author and former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson wrote:

    “Essentially, what has happened is that estimates of the viruses transmissibility have increased – which implies that many more people have already gotten it than we realize – which in turn implies it is less dangerous,” he said, before adding: “Not surprisingly, this testimony has received no attention in the US – I found it only in UK papers. Team Apocalypse is not interested.”

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/scientist-predicted-500k-deaths-now-says-20k

    As for this remark:

    … but they are now found in the respectable pages of my morning New York Times and Wall Street Journal.

    … respectable? Surely, you jest?

    • Thanks: Twodees Partain
  235. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:

    Peter Lee seems to be for China what Fred Reed is for Mexico. Nary a fowl thought. Pravda indeed. It’s intentional.

  236. @Donald A Thomson

    The aping is over. Las Vegas, of all places, and Atlanta, and who knows where else, are opening up, thanks to wonderful astro-turfing demonstrators for freedom. Sort of like the demonstrators for freedom in HongKong. Zombie Monsters.

  237. @Chet Roman

    This PhD pathologist has a real serious takedown of the Stanford study.

    That study is so bad as to be nearly fraudulent. The rapid test used had been tested in Denmark and was the worst test out of nine and had a specificity rating in the 80’s. The authors did not know the specificity rating of the test and made the assumption that if it was below 97% their results would be invalid. So the results are worthless by their own admissions.

    It gets worse. It sounds like they recruited people on facebook who had symptoms and wanted testing but could not get tested at the time. Hardly a random sample.

    And then one author of the paper wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal never disclosing that he was an author on the paper and then he linked to another Wall Street Journal article about NBA players catching Corona that was written by other authors of this paper. None of this was disclosed.

    I never in a million years would have expected this from Stanford or Ioannidis

    They should have taken this down.

    • Agree: utu, Agent76
    • Disagree: Tsar Nicholas
    • Replies: @Tsar Nicholas
  238. Tesw says:

    Blowback from Talmudic hell Israel. They got China, Iran and Italy, the rest are nothing to them. Just goyim cattle.

  239. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Not many people knew about the depleted uranium, but anyone could see, and should have seen, that it was a blatant act of aggression.

  240. Tesw says:

    Talmudism is a mental illness. Never ends well.

  241. Poco says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    A lot of alt-right types gravitated to this site because Unz publishes articles that contradict or malign the msm. At the same time Unz has minimal censorship of comments. I never thought that Unz himself was alt-right though.

  242. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @36 ulster

    You wonder why Pat Buchanan, Steve Sailer and Bertie Woostershire continue to post on this site. And, yes, why I bother to comment.

    Because lunacy is simply fascinating.

    Who could resist coming back time and again to see what very important insights Ron Unz has just gained through a very personal process of rooting through very old magazines, including his very own UR, all reported in very exciting prose, of very great and, indeed, almost unendurable length.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  243. Art says:

    I do not believe in the JFK or RFK government assassination stories. I absolutely do not believe in the 9/11 government story.

    With that said, I do not believe, that either the Chinese or US governments, with forethought and malice, purposely started the CV pandemic.

    Maybe rogue elements did it — but, Xi or Trump did not sign off on doing so.

  244. I don’t doubt the American elite are criminally insane. They are excellent cheaters, and very inbred. Where I disagree is financially we are already one world order. With many of the elite getting old its time to for them to complete daddy’s master plan to go all governance. This really is the one percents biological salvo over the 99 percent. China just might be complicit in this scheme so as to get their next “dynasty. The Wuhan lab in question was accepting US funding. Maybe they were generously rewarded for their oops moment? Killing off some of us little people doesn’t seem to be a problem for any government anywhere.

  245. utu says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Coronavirus epidemic brings up all kinds of eccentrics, kooks and especially anti-vaxxers out of the woodwork seeking their 5 minutes of attention. Checking if they are selling some elixir or snake oil is always prudent.

    That Dr Andrew Kaufman (who btw is a psychiatrist) seems to questions whether viruses even exist and that it never was proven to his satisfaction that viruses can cause diseases.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/g1uhxi/dr_andrew_kaufman_says_that_viruses_are_not/
    The doctor Andrew Kaufman says you can ‘ t catch a virus , the viruses we’re told about in school don’t really exist , viruses are produced inside of cells to combat toxins and the PCR tests in so-called coronavirus patients are just testing for exosomes produced by cells under stress from toxins .

    In Germany Dr Stefan Lanka who also does not believe in viruses and even won a court case or something.
    The David Bardens vs. Stefan Lanka law suit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bardens

  246. What hex did kabbalists put on you after you published that Toaff/Simon of Trent article, Ron? Since then your writing has been marked by clear signs of cognitive decline and/or mental illness, and you’ve flooded this website with idiot columnists posting dime store Russian and Chinese propaganda. It’s as though you were lobotomized and replaced with a very stupid guy whose task is to discredit this website by associating it with the most infantile and hare-brained ideas. This article is par for the course: you saddle the US imperium with the simpleminded plot of a G.I. Joe villain. Yes, the US totally unleashed bioweapons on China without ever considering that the virus could make it back here. That makes a ton of sense. And the US would totally do that after *decades* of propping up China’s “peaceful rise.”

    I suggest converting to Roman Catholicism and hoping that the power of Jesus lifts this curse from you. I am legitimately serious about this. I really think something has happened to you, and you need help from God.

  247. Would the American biowarfare labs, quite aware of America’s unpreparedness for an epidemic, have loosed in China a virus which they would have known would quickly reach the US with the heavy China-US air trafic well known? Steve Hatfill, at the time of the anthrax scare a friend of minewas then at Ft. Detrick and told me at length about his concern with unreadiness and of his discussions with colleagues on the topic. Such an attack on China would make sense only if the US population were known to be immune. Which, it seems, it isn’t.

  248. utu says:
    @Anon

    Obviously exponential growth is not sustainable. Strawman.

    “US is actually an outlier in high savings among developed economies.” – I do not know were are you getting it form. Do you know how to read graphs? Luxembourg, Switzerland, Sweden have saving rates 3 time higher than US. China (25%) has 5 times higher saving rate than the US (5%).

    • Replies: @Anon
  249. @CanSpeccy

    Want twitter, need twitter, troll not-twitter.

  250. @Frederick V. Reed

    *assuming the decision makers give any fuck for the prolls. Not that Nero was in Rome to watch Rome burn, but as a bad joke – like Nero watching Rome burn!

  251. Herald says:
    @Ozymandias

    Your limited selection of quotes, seems to be a cheap shot to try and turn the author’s own words against the main thrust of his article.

    Nice try that might just be worthy of a pay rise, if you were a lowly paid troll, but not really good enough for the Unz Review.

  252. @onebornfree

    They probably offered the wanker a china doll a la Zuckerberg …

  253. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @MLK

    Yes stop reading Don’t tax your memory and never tax your intelligence .

    Trump has repeatedly ignored or misrepresentation the facts which started slowly escaping after mid Nov 2019 .

    He would have continued to gloat over the firing of this navy captain Then the sob realized that the entire ship was giving this guy a sad but validating and warm send off – a hero’s departure that only a honest sincere leader could ever expect . So this shit head fired his underlings and reinstated the guy.

    This is the shit head who honors a dirty killer who rampaged in his tour to Afghanistan and this same dirt bag sent a man to jail for questionable charge of desertion .

  254. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    The facts of Tiananmen have been known for a long time. When Clinton visited the square this June, both The Washington Post and The New York Times explained that no one died there during the 1989 crackdown. But these were short explanations at the end of long articles. I doubt that they did much to kill the myth.

    Not only has the error made the American press’s frequent pleas for the truth about Tiananmen seem shallow, but it has allowed the bloody-minded regime responsible for the June 4 murders to divert attention from what happened.” CJR
    What happened on 4th June?

  255. Nearly 30,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus during the last two weeks, and by some estimates this is a substantial under-count

    The article is 7,500 words and I’ve only skimmed it. With all respect due Mr. Unz, how does one make references to a “substantial under-count” and never provide any basis for that statement. I believe pretty much any death, including car accidents and death via a wood chipper are being attributed to COVID.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  256. SafeNow says:

    Regarding why blowback considerations did not prevail, one must take account of “The Abilene Paradox.” This is a psychological mechanism of group decision-making, taught in business schools, in which a group takes preposterous action that no member of the group individually favors.

    • Replies: @tomo
  257. Herald says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    At least your jackassery has a bit of style.

  258. ken19 says:

    I highly doubt 37,000 Americans died OF the virus as every death they can muster is tacked on to CV19 without any proof, a virus they still have not proven exists other then them saying so.

    The virus did NOT cause the lost 22 million jobs,,, so far. The ‘crisis’ was/is caused by politicians that have zero authority to do what they’re doing. I don’t care if it is the Bubonic Plague. They can advise but they have no authority to close private businesses and/or imprison citizens. Telling you to stay home and arresting you for leaving without authorization is prison. Saying what you can or cannot buy is prison. Saying you are non essential is prison. Every person in the used to be economy is essential.
    Well that was America 1.0. We have now upgraded to 2.0 where Americans play the new game, Tyranny for Dollars. And they done it voluntarily.

    They’ll trade Freedom for Free stuff but then comes the payback…. America,,, you will regret this dearly. Remember this post.

  259. GeeBee says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The CIA you say? I rather doubt it. A quick look at your comments history reveals 4,369 comments. That’s pretty much a full-time job I’d say. And judging by the content, I can only say that I Spy, With my Little Eye, Something beginning with ‘J’…

  260. utu says:
    @Felix Culpa

    Wittkowski is an incorrigible attention craving buffoon.

    [MORE]

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/new-yorkers-are-throwing-corona-potlucks-and-visiting-speakeasies/
    Dr. Knut M. Wittkowski, the former chief biostatistician and epidemiologist at Rockefeller University Hospital, told The Post he was not practicing social distancing and said he regularly goes to one of two illicit restaurants secretly operating in his Upper East Side neighborhood.

    “This is a flu and this will end like every other flu did before for the last thousand years.”

    “All respiratory epidemics end when 80 percent of all people have become immune,”

    https://www.theindependent.com/opinion/letters/herd-immunity-argument-is-faulty/article_a0011b76-7f4d-11ea-989a-934aea08ef6b.html
    Dr. Wittkowski’s modelling predicted that COVID-19 would cause less than 10,000 deaths in the U.S. As of this writing, deaths exceed 22,000. Much of his argument is based on the idea that the economic costs of social distancing aren’t worth it if only 10,000 Americans are going to die anyway.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/kaiser-permanente-data-on-hospitalizations/#comment-3846466
    It is unfortunate that Knut Wittkowski, who got a significant following among the skeptic-hoaxer-just-a-flu crowd by providing them with cogent talking points to their liking perpetuates the same mistake. Wittkowski knows better, yet he does not rectify this error.

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  261. @Jake

    There never was any need to bomb Christian Serbia … it was all a Jewish project to look good in the eyes of Muslims (their natural, pig-hating partners) and to deflect from the Palestinian situation. And unfortunately for the Serbians, the criminal Clintons were all too willing for thirty pieces of silver to do the dirty deed … Chinese embassy bombing was incidental at best.

  262. anon[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    Another problem with your imagination

    The OP here, Mr. Unz, was using his “imagination” to come up with “two possible” scenarios.

    Mr. Unz has been corrected by pointing out yet another “possible” scenario that fits.

    Your CON theory reeks of the classic western projection..

    No, actually, it points out the incompetence of US intelligence services, assumes that Chinese are actually smart people and can stick it to the West too, and finally the lack of “imagination” of various propaganda organs, who want to “herd” us into a ‘selection’ of acceptable narratives.

    • Replies: @denk
  263. gay troll says:
    @Otto von Komsmark

    SARS-CoV-2, with a genetic sequence 80% identical to the CDC’s patented SARS virus, appears to have leaked from BSL labs at Ft. Detrick last summer, leading the CDC to shut down the labs for months. Details are classified, but the government admits that an infectious agent or toxin breached their new steam decontamination system.

    Shortly thereafter, CDC announced a novel pneumonia epidemic called EVALI. They said it was not contagious, despite causing immune responses such as fever and diarrhea. They said it could not be tested for. They said it was “linked” with vaping but never provided a solid conclusion or any scientific evidence.

    The symptoms of EVALI and COVID19 are literally identical. EVALI “peaked” in September before reaching over 2500 cases and 50 deaths. It has since disappeared.

    Event 201 simulated a global pandemic of a highly infectious SARS variant the same day the Military World Games began in Wuhan. The first case of SARS-CoV-2 appeared in Wuhan a few weeks later.

  264. sarz says:
    @Anonymous

    Unz is not saying that he still believes that, he’s just getting on record what he believed then. His rhetorical strategy, which is quite effective in winning people over to his point of view, is to share unexpected knowledge that has won him over.

  265. @9/11 Inside job

    The only problem with the Coronavirus psyop is that genetics now tell us there are three strains of virus and that screws up everybody’s notions of what happened because everyone has been thinking there was only one strain.

    Now that genticists tell us there are at least three due to mutations, it screws up everyone’s analysis. The primary strain in Wuhan is strain B not the original strain A. So that screws up the Wuhan lab did it theory, it screws up the wet market theory and it screws up the military games theory.

    The genetics shows that the original strain A developed in Southern China where all the bats are. Somehow the original strain A is more predominant in Europe and America than it is in China.

    Of course governments are free to disregard science and come up with their own bullshit claims because the people are too dumb to know the difference and the scientific community always shuts up.

  266. tomo says:

    “…one very embarrassing mishap. The use of old maps had led to a targeting error that caused one of our smart bombs to accidentally strike the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade”

    I am from Serbia and I suspect they probably targeted that embassy on purpose.
    Even if we assume it was a ‘mistake’ – that building used to be one of the main hotels in Belgrade as far as I remember. Hotel Yugoslavia.
    Why would anyone target a hotel? What kind of a mistake would that be?
    They tried to ‘prevent’ a massacre – but thanks to what they did in Kosovo- Serbs were basically kicked out and Serbian churches that have been built 1000 years or so ago were mostly destroyed and deliberately so by Albanians.
    I was told by Albanian friends from Kosovo that they have become a drug-smuggling HQ of Europe (thanks to America and it’s heroin operations in Afghanistan).
    I’ve never been to Kosovo and I met a few Kosovo Albanians in military and I liked them and got on well with them.
    I would not assume Americans wanted to hit a hotel instead of a Chinese Embassy

  267. @ken19

    You can doubt all you want. A lot of people doubted Sandy Hook. They were proved wrong.

  268. Everyone knows that America’s ruling elites are criminal, crazy, and also extremely incompetent.

    While this is generally true, there are nuances. There are two aspects of biowarfare hypothesis, and we should consider them separately.

    One, some claim that this virus was engineered. This claim appears preposterous for several reasons. Coronaviruses are among the RNA viruses with the largest genome (about 30 thousand bases) that encodes an unusual (for a virus) number of proteins, about 30. If anyone wanted to engineer weapons-grade virus, coronaviruses would be very unlikely candidates. There are lots of smaller, simpler, and much more deadly viruses to choose from. One advantage that coronaviruses have over other kinds is that they specifically suppress our immune response. That’s why we have flu every year and common cold every season, often more than once per year. Several of coronavirus proteins are specifically tasked with suppressing our immune system, but that aspect of coronavirus biology is the murkiest and the least studied. Thus, engineering something of coronavirus complexity is more than modern science can accomplish. Plus, really creative and talented scientists have scruples. So, war criminals would have to use a lesser kind, which is even less capable of such a scientific fit.

    Two, deliberate of accidental release. This is within the realm of possibility. First, a number of natural coronaviruses could have been tested, the variants that infect human cells could have been selected and propagated in cell culture. This can be done by a moderately qualified technician, and you can always find people with limited abilities without any scruples (or even lacking the capacity to understand what they are doing). Bats would be a good source for the initial screen: they have 500-700 known coronaviruses, and estimates suggest that their total might be ~5,000 varieties. In that case the release in Wuhan right when the US team ostensibly participated in military sports competition there would make sense. The release could have been accidental, though: Ft. Detrick biowarfare lab was just closed by CDC for numerous safety violations.

    One of many coronaviruses existing in other mammalian species could have produced a variant capable of infecting humans naturally: coronaviruses jump species all the time. This is the third possibility.

    We likely will never find out whether this virus evolved and jumped species naturally, or was selected and then released, deliberately or accidentally. The obvious thing is, we need to know a lot more about potentially harmful viruses and bacteria, so that next time we are not caught with our pants down. A lot more scientific research is required for that, and this means a lot more funding for biomedical science. Let me remind you that the last time the US was attacked militarily happened on December 7, 1941 (Pearl Harbor). This was almost 80 years ago. Yet our country allocated in fiscal 2020 $738 billion to Pentagon to counter non-existent threats, and $41.46 billion (less than 6% of the Pentagon budget) to NIH to counter threats that actually exist. As long as this madness continues, we are wide open to any biological threat and powerless to fight it.

  269. Anon[507] • Disclaimer says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    is so ludicrous as to defy rationality

    It’s been no longer possible to discuss, in the comments and with the columnists, starting with the site’s leadership, or read, about China objectively on this site for a while. If you told me that you noticed it here first, that would be slightly ludicrous, and maybe rationality-defying.

    Look at the full half of the glass: on nigh 100% of ezines, magazines, TV channels, radio stations, blogs, no issue of any momentum can be discussed/read with objectivity, with hosts, columnists and commenters as well; here that is possible with a number of columnists and about a number of issues, both numbers having gone down for quite some time now.
    It’s already something.

  270. @ken19

    That’s right. And remember, this was the entire purpose of the alt-right: not to deprogram people from liberalism, but to reprogram them for whatever comes next. And it ain’t gonna be pretty, that’s for sure.

  271. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Thanks for that insightful information…

    This is why China is doing so well, precisely because the government is so involved on matters of the entire spectrum of nurturing a society…

    This requires literally an army of capable technocrats that literally oversee the smooth functioning of a vast country…with a very simple objective…to improve the lives of the people…

    Now some will call that central planning, and it is…but here’s a shocker for the brainwashed dolts that automatically associate that with negative…

    ANY large organization requires meticulous planning…the military for example, which, other than the procurement process which is so corrupt precisely because it is in private hands, runs very well…it’s actually a socialist form of organization…the soldier or sailor is completely looked after…and with limitless opportunities to advance up through the ranks, based only on merit…

    As for the so called capitalist system of the US economy and governance…central planning is key to this system as well…only it is done by the plutocracy and corporatocracy for the benefit of only themselves…

    The entire system is one huge central planning octopus…from the elite gatherings at Davos and the like…to the machinery of finance and big capital…to the media, think tanks etc…and down to every aspect of how our society is run…the laws and regulations that are passed…everything…

    Does that huge machine run itself, without constant planning and directives coming from the top echelons of capitalism inc…?

    That’s simply the height of stupidity…I would say our own elite in fact fields an even bigger army of technocrats working in the trenches…propagandists, lobbyists and all manner of proseletyzers making sure the world is safe and profitable for King Bezos and Wall Street…

    The only difference between the two types of central plannig is that the Chinese socialist version works for the benefit of ordinary folks…

    • Replies: @UK
  272. @Anon

    Additionally, How did China identify the virus so quickly? It is fairly hard to tell, even from those who died. According your own article, China shut down when they had 11 deaths, and sequenced the genome when they had even less. That has never happened before, and I feel that is suspicious to me. The offical Chinese narrative is that the Wuhan Goverment dropped the ball, so how did they catch the disease so early?

    This is how:
    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2004/10/sensor-detects-identifies-single-viruses/
    And that is why the good Prof Lieber had to be “Assanged”.

    and, I get your point about immigrants & blacks (you can add “indigenous” to that list of terminally poor) but their difficulties in accumulating savings, the “time preference” you say they lack, is Not due to choice but lack of choices.

  273. @obwandiyag

    And now that it has been proven that there are three strains and Strain B is the Wuhan strain and the original strain A came from Southern China where the bats are, it kinda screws up the Wuhan Lab theory, the Wuhan market theory and the military games theory.

    Not that the governments will give a shit about science that does not fit the theories.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Herald
  274. Tor597 says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Not only does it make sense to release this into China fully knowing that America is vulnerable, it is actually a prerequisite for a successful American operation.

    If American was not gravely hurt by Corona Virus there would be only mild interest in taking on China militarily or economically.

    Also, the elites in America aren’t harmed at all. They will in fact come out ahead of this since they were bailed out. The stock market was a bubble anyways, but now instead of collapsing and taking the hit they get to blame Corona Virus and get bailed out.

    • Agree: antitermite
  275. @davidgmillsatty

    How were they proved wrong? Is it as simple as A, B, C?

  276. tomo says:
    @SafeNow

    add to this that most CEOs don’t really have a clue about what is going on because on every layer of information being passed up, a layer of lies and sugar – coating is added because most employees have learned that bearing bad news can cost them dearly
    I read this I think in one of Tom De Marco’s books on business.

    Plus most of these CEO s got jobs through contacts not because they deserve them

  277. Tor597 says:

    Here Lord Rees, her Majestys Royal Astronomer who is a Mason, predicted a million deaths in a 6 month period no later than Dec 2030.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/corona-wars

    Here the UK had their own simulation predicting a pandemic from China called Cygnus.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/labour-urges-government-publish-findings-2016-pandemic-drill

    Why are all the Anglo countries running so many simulations on what actually happened but failing spectacularly?

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  278. FB says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Sounds like a veiled threat to journalist Ron Unz…

    Coming from some greaseball who decides to post anonymously…

    But leaving aside matters of international law like bombing an embassy…to say nothing of the illegal bombing campaign itself, which constitutes nothing less than a crime against peace, the most grave war crime of all under the Nuremberg standard…

    Leaving all that aside, your sputtering seems mostly peeved about the downing of the ‘stealth’ F117 by little Serbia…

    [And just for emphasis the Serbs knocked out a Second F117, which managed to stagger back to Aviano but was scrapped and never flew again…see Colonel Everest Riccioni…]

    In the definitive analysis of the FAILURE of the bombing campaign, writing in the flagship USAF professional journal Aerospace Power, Dr Benjamin Lambeth aptly compares the F117 downing to the national shock of 9-11..

    So sorry that the Serbs managed to bring down the national pride of the US with a well placed missile shot [or at least that of puff pastries like yourself…who now have to resort to spittle-laced, impotent threats on a bulletin board…]

    BTW…I’m sure Mr Unz is quaking in his boots…LOL

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @mike99588
  279. Agent76 says:

    Apr 20, 2020 Respiratory Doctor Blows Whistle on FAKE VIRUS PANDEMIC

    Respiratory Doctor Blows Whistle on FAKE VIRUS.

    [MORE]

  280. UK says:

    Japan is showing high competence here. This virus will pass through the population. Everyone who is informed knows it. It is just important that there is adequate medical care for the very small proportion who will get very sick, and when there is space in the medical care system, the infection can be allowed to spread a bit faster.

    Not that most masks make any difference, I wore one on the first five minutes of a plane ride the other day and was dismayed to discover that the mask provides so much resistance to airflow that when you breath it rushes, funneled with greater force, in and out of the sides – and onto your neighbours. I took it off because that was dumb.

    Reasons for medical care being needed: a lot of people will need medical treatment for things aside from respiratory support, eg because it is causing huge numbers diabetic emergencies and emergencies due to new insulin resistance in non-diabetics and they are needing careful insulting, fluid titration and electrolyte management in hospital, kidney failure needing dialysis, circulatory failure needing invasive monitoring and medicines to make the heart beat stronger or the blood vessels tighten, high numbers of significant clots that may be lethal if not picked up and managed early- essentially things due to overwhelming insult plus some likely more due to idiosyncrasies of the virus.

    Meanwhile, the heavy-handed and paranoid – will not accept failure – Chinese approach is not the competent one. Management that can’t accept failure in its subordinates always incentivises the wrong things. It is toxic. This will all come out in time. Spaz-nerd internet autists won’t get it until the picture is very clear.

    Essentially the problem so far has been two-fold:

    1. China was the worst country for the initial outbreak. They covered it up, exported it to the rest of the world while scolding us for anti-Chinese racism and then set a spaz-nerd example of how to deal with it.

    2. Our governments, hindered by the Chinese example, and with our own public hysteria problem, could neither admit to the nuanced and complicated long-term solution that would accept limitations and deaths nor shake off the incentives to individual victim-hood that we’ve been laying down with all of this politically correct shit for the last few decades. Thus everyone and every institution is constantly pushed to be a victim and to exaggerate the problem while being given permission by the incredibly short-sighted and unsophisticated Chinese example.

    In other words, an alliance between spaz-nerds and weepy hystericals has pointlessly imprisoned us in our homes for months because they are following a corrupt, autocratic and incompetent Chinese regime that has managed to “miraculously” take one of the highest IQ populations in the world and give them a living standard that sits below Peru, Thailand, Brazil and Colombia.

    So sad, so predictable.

    • Replies: @Jaylonw
  281. @utu

    The mighty utu’s case against epidemiologist Wittkowski: It’s all accusatory inversion.

    1. utu projects his inability to correct Wittkowski onto Wittkowski by merely labelling him “incorrigible”

    2. The New York Post quotes Wittkowski as though his statements were self-refuting; thus projecting onto him their inability to refute his conclusion.

    3. The Independent projects their reliance on faulty models, like BMGF -sponsored Imperial College Models onto Wittkowski’s. Let the evidence show that the number of fatalities Wittkowski predicts ( on the order of an average flu season) were correct.
    And Wittkowski has the nerve to care about people (the unemployed) the media owners at places like The Independent are not interested in using right now ( the sick and elderly)

    4. utu can point to comments endorsing the spin he is selling.

    Waiting for evidence Wittkowski’s conclusion is scientifically wrong, not politically incorrect…

    • Replies: @Hail
  282. SafeNow says:

    “$41.46 billion (less than 6% of the Pentagon budget) to NIH to counter threats that actually exist. As long as this madness continues, we are wide open to any biological threat and powerless to fight it.”

    Only $150 million annual budget last year for finding large, dangerous asteroids. A 2005 law said, find 90% by 2020. Well, as of last year, we had found 40%. Pandemics, asteroids, and accidental nuclear detonations. Protect the people. That’s why you’re here.

    Admiral Nimitz, completing his review of the tragic ”Halsey hurricane”: It is dangerous to be grudging about safety precautions for fear that the precautions might turn out to have been unnecessary.

  283. I’ve read only a part of the article, but this:

    Such government action against an academic seemed almost without precedent. During the height of the Cold War, numerous American scientists and technicians were rightfully accused of having stolen our nuclear weapons secrets for delivery to Stalin, yet I had never heard of any of them treated in so harsh a manner, let alone a scholar of Prof. Lieber’s stature, who was merely charged with technical disclosure violations. Indeed, this incident recalled accounts of NKVD raids during the Soviet purges of the 1930s.

    is completely true.

  284. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    we have seen to our dismay how a major outbreak can so easily wreck our entire economic life

    Not so fast there, Ron. Let me sharpen this remark up a little bit:

    we have seen to our dismay how the governmental responses to a major outbreak can so easily wreck our entire economic life.

  285. Pft says:

    China did it. US did it. Israel did it. Lol

    When are people going to realize the elites in every country are now united and make up a Shadow Global Government. They are global elites. The concept of nation has no meaning to them except as a useful tool to keep populations in their bordered pen (except for some controlled illegal immigration to divide the national populations). The conflicts between nations (and political parties) are fake wrestling for the most part (real only for the non-elites). The purpose is to disguise the fact they are executing a war on the bottom 90% using 9.9% of the population to unknowingly do their dirty work (duped into thinking they are doing good or financial incentives). The reason for the war is population control/reduction and full spectrum dominance over the people they rule.

    Anyways, carry on.

  286. COVID=Certificate of vaccination ID
    For more information see “NWO has arrived” dollarvigilante.com by Jeff Berwick
    Are you ready for your vaccination and the “mark of the beast” ?

  287. Anonymous[625] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thulean Friend

    I’ve been seeing the consequences play out even in neutral places. I frequent quite a few technology-related subreddits and the unmitigated hatred of China is truly a sight to be hold. Even the most tangential topics get hijacked by zealots.

    Reddit is far from neutral. They had managed quarantine or outright remove all “hateful” subreddits years ago. As you can see, this doesn’t apply to hatred against China, Russia or the white race. That’s encouraged.

    The place couldn’t be less neutral if Soros himself were at the helm.

  288. FLASH: Stanford study shows that the number of CCP virus infections is 35 TIMES GREATER than earlier suspected.

    This means that the the virus has already been here for quite some time and is much less lethal than what was previously supposed. (off by a factor of 38). So it is more deadly than the flu, but not enough to have imposed a retarded lockdown. (Corbet Report has already done a piece showing the fakery of CCP virus statistics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1trzdmwR2M)

    The flattening of the curve would have happened anyway, but herd immunity will not be achieved unless a lockdown is swiftly ended.

    This “pandemic” is a media created monster. Cui bono? Neocons wanted to smash the economy to make Trump look bad. Ghouls like Gates wanted to impose tyranny and vaccine regimes. The Fed wanted to steal more money. China and France stopped all the protests.

  289. @FB

    To add insult to injury: Serbs used ancient Soviet C-75 anti-aircraft system. As they said, “sorry, we didn’t know that it’s invisible”.

    • Replies: @FB
  290. The fact that the virus looks so natural, that almost none of the experts think that it was a manufactured virus does not prove that “it did not come out of a lab”. The CIA is known to have been collecting bat and other wild viruses assiduously for years. There are known to be hundreds, perhaps thousands of corona viruses living in bats. Maybe they just got lucky and found the ideal virus for the job?
    Also, I was surprised that Ron Unz did not mention the detail that some of the soldiers in the American team were hospitalized in Wuhan with “high fevers” and were flown back to the USA before the others.
    There is also the curious detail of the team avoiding all photos and scoring 35th in the overall rankings. Pretty poor for the”finest Army the World has ever seen”.
    https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2019/October/18/CISM-World-Games-advance
    Note how tactful the Chinese were here!
    http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2019-10/27/content_75345072.htm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games
    Scroll down to the medals table, near the bottom.

  291. I hope Ron comes to his senses. The catastrophe is the response to something that is increasingly being shown to be only as deadly as the seasonal flu.

    Which is not to say the flu isn’t deadly, but we don’t shut down the planet every flu season.

    • Disagree: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  292. Hempus says:

    This is a HIV 2.0 scam
    Where is the correlation that SARS COVID-2 causes any concret disease?
    Probably this virus is just a marker but not the cause.

    There are many very old people with health preconditions waiting for the death in nursing homes and many very old people with severe health preconditions in hospitals…just waiting that someone tells them: oh too bad, you have a deadly virus in your lungs which might affects your breathing.

    Even younger people often cant deal with such a positive test verdict especially if they have a hypochondric or claustrophobic nature. They start to panic and hyperventilate their lungs.
    But the more important effect is toward the chest / intercostal muscles and the midriff muscles. Panicky people start to hyperventilate …means short and deep breathing, and by a period of that they produce too much static energy which is stressing and soreness those muscles and finally contracts them more and more until they cannot open the lungs anymore.

    This kind of breathlessness is not triggered by a Virus but is shock excited by a permanent overdose of contracting centripetal energy toward the breathing muscles!

    Hello, can anyone please remaind those Doctors and experts, that:
    WE DO NOT OPEN THE LUNGS BY THE LUNGS ITSELF!

    So if those breathing muscles get soreness and inflamed we can call this also a pneumonia.
    But there is also a “ventilator associated pneumonia” which is, sorry, not triggered by a virus but by the respiratory ventilator!

    • Replies: @Alden
  293. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    The OCED has the US savings rate at 8%, which is higher than almost of all of Western Europe, not 5%. If you read the graph in my first comment, then you would know that. China has 3x the savings rate of the US, which is not 5x as you claim. The reason for the lower US savings rate is due to our stronger safety net and our large Black population, which don’t save anything, dragging the number down. Among Whites, the savings rate is surely in the high tens, low twenties. That’s why our mean savings is the highest in the world, and vastly higher than China’s.

    Also, you just stated that Japan’s massive slowdown was due to the Plaza Accord, and not them reaching the technology frontier. That’s why I asked about China’s slowdown, and if was due to policy, since you claimed Japan’s slowdown was due to policy. Japan’s sharp trajectory upward modeled China’s, and if assume that it provides a playbook, then we should assume that China’s exponential growth rates will also collapse.

    After all, Japan went from bombed out to equal level income with the US in 40 years, and China is still far behind that position. So, Japan is an optimistic view of where China could go. Not a strawman

    Frankly, you don’t seem all that bright to me, if you cannot follow a logical flow of a conservation or lead the links people provide.

    Hint: Read the links I provide!

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  294. Jaylonw says:

    Great analysis as usual. One obvious mistake in the article unrelated to the virus, you have the date for TAM incident wrong, its June 4, not June 6.

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  295. Will says:
    @anon

    Giraldi is pretty much the only one on this entire website not pushing propaganda. Unz is another propaganda pusher. And, even Paul Craig Roberts is now pushing COVID fear porn.

    • Agree: Tsar Nicholas
  296. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks…

    I was hoping you would weigh in on the technical aspects of the virus…you’re probably the only guy here actually qualified to give some meaningful insights…

    Let me see if I understood what you’re saying..

    In the case of simply harvesting various corona strains from the wild, and figuring out in the lab which ones might be a candidate for a targeted release, does this work possibly involve selectively ‘breeding’ them in Petri dishes…in order to speed up evolution, much as so called plant hybrids were developed for many years before the modern gene editing techniques came along…?

    Would not this type of approach be more nefarious in terms of covering one’s tracks…and would this type of work be within the ability of second tier researchers that would have lower ethical issues…?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  297. … we have seen to our dismay how a major outbreak can so easily wreck our entire economic life.

    In this case, not the outbreak, rather it was the decisions of policy makers that are wrecking the world economy.

    The major drawback to biological warfare has always been the obvious fact that the self-replicating agents employed will not respect national borders, thus raising the serious risk that the disease might eventually return to the land of its origin and inflict substantial casualties. For this reason, it seems very doubtful that any rational and half-competent American leadership would have unleashed the coronavirus against China.

    One plausible scenario is for a couple strains of varying lethality be developed: The weaker “S” strain, amounting to little more than the common cold is loosed among the people of the attacking country and its allies to foster the beginning of herd immunity, while a far more lethal “L” strain is unleashed against the target country.

    What policy makers of the attacking country might not have counted on is how fast the “L” strain might backscatter into “friendly” territory because they underestimated the commercial travels between the target country and “friendly” countries, to wit Italy signing onto the BRI and a huge influx of Chinese labourers in Northern Italy, who pass it along to the visiting vacationers and business people from London and New York, or where visiting Chinese managers to Chinese-owned companies in “friendly” territory, e.g. Smithfield Foods (bought as a source of “clean” pork), inadvertantly pass it along to the workforce. Meanwhile, the response of China might have seemed so effective that dallying Western leaders had their hands forced because the assumed herd immunity had not had time to take root.

    Und so weiter, und so fort….

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  298. Will says:

    Summary of Unz’ article:

    • Replies: @Trinity
  299. Joe Webb says:

    China is totalitarian, N. Korea is totalitarian, Japan and S. Korea toe the line w/the US, and all the Asian countries are corrupt and anti-democratic.

    If you want to predict behavior, look at the group or race from which an individual comes who happens to wash up on US or European shores. Never mind Arab countries, etc. now.

    About 6 years ago I had motorcycle accident in a local rich man’s town. (Woodside). I went down on loose sand on the pavement. I went to town hall and recruited the town engineer to help me find out who spilled the sand. The engineer was Chinese.. We drove around in his Woodside truck and could not locate a suspect.

    After about an hour, we quit and I thanked him for his help. I went back to the scene of the accident and knocked on the first door that was near. I asked a gal if she knew where the sand came from.

    She said, I can tell you that…it was the town of Woodside during some asphalt repair.

    So (!). I returned to Woodside city hall and told the Chinese engineer that he was a liar. He gave me a form to fill out and I got my money damages.

    Where I live, near Ron Unz, the Chinese are everywhere. local white liberals have complained to me about Chinese…that they lie, cheat and steal.

    Ron Unz is a racial democrat. He believes in immigration and will have nothing to do with racial IQ, etc.

    Take the parsimonious view ….what is the simplest explanation. Race is the simplest explanation.

    Ron goes on and on and on.

    Would the US send over some not too nasty….now…virus with some US soldiers, to plant it on the Chinese ( maybe a wet-market sap..just for a laugh? ) who everybody knew were there? Unz will believe anything that reinforces his race democracy views.

    The Chinese are our Enemy because we are the The Enemy of the Chinese

    P.S. Later by about 3 years, while attending to some business at town hall, Woodside, I walked into the Engineer’s office and inquired if the Chinese guy was still there. Two white engineers told me No. I told them my story and they laughed and laughed. They know.
    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Miro23
  300. UK says:
    @FB

    Spaz-Nerd nonsense. China has a naturally high IQ population and is in an astonishingly fortunate (though temporary) position as regards its population pyramid and earnings potential. It also doesn’t have so few problems that unlike, say, Sweden, it can import them for fun.

    Yet it has a living standard below 50 years of civil war Colombia.

    The control freaks and the hystericals both love this pandemic…both are half people at best.

  301. Dan Hayes says:
    @threestars

    The MSM falsely portrayed the carnage associated with Tiananmen Square in terms of students protesting for democratic rights whereas the actual casualties arose from workers angling for better living conditions

  302. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @davidgmillsatty

    This summary of the PNAS paper states: Since today’s PNAS study was conducted, the research team has extended its analysis to 1,001 viral genomes.

    While yet to be peer-reviewed, … the latest work suggests that the first infection and spread among humans of COVID-19 occurred between mid-September and early December. Meaning that the first case in China could have preceded the Wuhan military games, which began October 20th.

  303. Herald says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    A came from Southern China where the bats are, it kinda screws up the Wuhan Lab theory, the Wuhan market theory and the military games theory.

    If bats were taken to a lab that was remote from their South China natural environment, it would only screw up the very unlikely Trumped up Wuhan market theory. The other two theories remain possible and of course the lab does not have to be in China.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  304. tomo says:
    @follyofwar

    I reacted the same way (and posted a comment to clarify the Chinese Embassy story) but I continued reading – and I fully agree – this is similar to how I thought initially and why I stopped believing anything Western MSM says. If in doubt it’s always almost 100% accurate to just assume the opposite is true .
    I am from Serbia but I studied in London at the time and I used to believe all the BS CNN served daily and the BS Nato briefings…it turned out everything they said was pretty much false. As was the story about Srebrenica ‘massacre’ which I also believed, until a decade later when I read an interview with a Canadian NATO commander who was there at the time – he said that the official story was BS and that Bosnians provoked Serbs (they used to get out of their UN protected safe zones at night and burn Serbian villages etc).
    The US/Israel/UK/France/Germany have become like the modern day MORDOR with a comprehensive but collapsing PR machine and a loud megaphone

    • Agree: Miro23, Theophrastus
  305. Geowhizz says:
    @Ozymandias

    One of Ron’s weaker efforts. IMHO.

  306. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tor597

    You have included the symbolic victories of the neocons (US ),real losses of the US . But the retreat of the neoconized USA is also real -retreat from ME . This is more than enough to spell the death of the neocons . China will be eventually rehabilitated despite the canard . Venezuela will find the path out of this and this is enough to educate how dirty US is . Not sure about NK.Next person will be worse .
    Revenge is sweet and cold. It looks quite obvious that Iran has eliminated that mad Ayatollah .
    Neoconized America will have few friends -may be the diehard evangelical and the Indian Hindu extremist abroad and the settler garrison state of Israel .

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  307. @davidgmillsatty

    A lot of people doubted Sandy Hook. They were proved wrong.

    Good point. I doubted Sandy Hook when I witnessed Robbie Parker smiling and laughing in the seconds before his public statement the day after his daughter was shot dead. But then I later learned that parents grieve in different ways and his behavior was really totally normal.

  308. chris says:

    The only thing I don’t get about the bioweapon theory, which otherwise seems relatively probable, is the question of the loyalty of the secret service community to this president.

    Trump surely knows that these agencies are crawling with actively and passively treasonous operators. If you add the active animosity toward him by Democratic-cum-media establishments, he could count on no more than 25% of these people to stay loyal to him.

    I therefore find it very hard to believe he would take such a risk under such circumstances, especially as his legions of enemies would be waiting to compromise his plans at their first opportunity.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  309. tipotoy says:

    I understand the focus.
    I understand the dialoque.
    I also know this is the biggest infofest ever to have taken place.
    This is psy-ops as in PSY-OPS.
    Lurking in the background are our “smartphones”…
    If we do not change our behaviour or we do not come up with an alternative we will be victims of this virus et al.
    We need to change.
    We need to by-pass all our social media, we need to re-create our way of communication.
    If not; we are just sitting ducks…

    • Agree: Polemos
    • Replies: @flashlight joe
  310. You write that the atomic spies were not treated harshly but did you forget that the Rosenbergs were executed?

  311. mcohen says:
    @Anonymous

    Have to agree with the anon ron.Don’t pull the tigers tale ron.

    China targeted Italy because it had competitive industries.First sent in the refugees from africa and the middle East 20-30 years ago then built up Chinese expat communities and now the virus could be the final nail.
    Your problem is you are a typical American who cannot see beyond your borders until they arrive at them.lol

    Ron

    What do you think the Chinese were doing in Belgrade.Making noodles lol.

    https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/2110603175_Zheng-Li_Shi

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323547186_Serological_Evidence_of_Bat_SARS-Related_Coronavirus_Infection_in_Humans_China

    Just go to the site and check the research articles published from 2018.Hundreds of them.
    In any event the earth benefits most.No pollution,the ozone can recover.Thats what counts,the rest is smoke.

    Unless we stop oil we will fry in it.

    How’s that for a catchy meme.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  312. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    LOL…yes, the Serbs had some humorous wise cracks about the ‘invisible’ plane…another one was…

    ‘Sori…avion ti gori…’

    Which means ‘sorry, your plane’s on fire’…but with the rhyming…

    It was actually the S125 that was used, which is just as ancient…the S75 is actually a more potent high altitude missile…best known as the U2 killer, having shot down Gary Powers over Russia and Rudolf Anderson over Cuba during the missile crisis…

    A few years later Colonel Zoltan Dani the commander of the 250’th Missile Brigade invited Major Dale Zelko, the F117 pilot back to Serbia…a neat little documentary of that ‘Second Meeting’ on YouTube…

  313. Trinity says:
    @Will

    And yet Ronald Reagan like others before and after him could see the bear but he couldn’t see (((elephant))) in the room. Lush Limbaugh can’t see the elephant nor can Pawn Vanity or even Cucker Carlson, but some myopic 12 year old kid across the world in China or Japan can see the massive beast. All the highly educated gay dudes and metrosexuals over at CNN & MSNBC can’t spot the elephant but a barber in India can see the huge pachyderm. Even good ole Fredo has no clue about the elephant. Some guy shining shoes over in Turkey can spot the elephant from thousands of miles away, but yet educated, successful billionaires like our current President Trump has no idea who runs the show in America and the West. Incredible, huh?

    #chinadidit

    • Agree: Miro23
  314. @Getaclue

    “It’s all about on a Junior High School level but after getting away with 911 Demolition
    anyone not a rube, grifter/or in on it knew they’d be back to finish it off– and so they
    are here with the Plandemic”.

    Precisely! The body of society with compromised immune system, not able to detect or
    react effectively to both dangerous lies (like 9/11 and dozens of lower caliber false-flags)
    and direct physical assaults (like chemtrails and 5g technology) is doomed to get
    something that will “take care” of its immune system once and forever.
    I will not be surprised if they call the upcoming vaccine “No Brainer 216” or “1984 forever”.

  315. anon[736] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    Like I said, it’s a neoliberal zionist-neocon elitist’s wet dream come true, maybe even more than 9/11 was.

    Financial reset, general impoverishment, population control, digital money, mandatory vaccines, yes.

    But there probably is a fight at the top, between the pro-dollar & US empire oligarchy and the pro-world currency/world government oligarchy (based in London). Both neoliberal zionists, but with different priorities.

    And my bet is that the pro-world currency oligarchy will prevail, with the FED losing its power to the IMF/World bank.

  316. @ld

    let me add to your list

    the moon “landing”
    operation northwood
    gulf of Tonkin

  317. Anonymous[625] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pft

    elites in every country are now united

    Nope. If that were the case, we’d be already living in a windowless NWO prison of unimaginable proportions. Healthy scepticism is great when judging different elites but your inability to evaluate how they differ is unhealthy and ultimately debilitating.

  318. Please consider also Events 201 held in NY on the 18th October, the very same day the military games began in Wuhan. And US landing on the 35th place, when wiki wrote 23rd place with one gold medal won by a US female triathlete, when the victory went to a Swiss lady.

    The scenario of Events 201 is most interesting.

    And what about Grimscon Contagion?!

    US were super ready to face an epidemy, weren’t they?

    By the way, a lot of thanks to you, Ron Unz!

    • Replies: @Tor597
  319. @mcohen

    China targeted Italy because it had competitive industries.

    US targeted Italy because they are at one end of the belt and road initiative.

    • Replies: @mcohen
  320. meena says:
    @AriusArmenian

    You sure can . We teach stupidity . Stupidity is well sought after virtue . Next is docile expression of sorrow at the loss of jobs food and lack of supplies or medicines or access to health care .Often find myself listening to the murmurs from the “first time caller “ to NPR or to some right-wing radio channel and always accompanied by some sincere prayers from the radio hosts .

    No anger no hatred just sorrow woe despair and doleful words !

  321. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Check this anon out.

    How dare Ron disagrees with him. How dare other anons disagrees with him. Fucking echo chamber chasers.

    Weakasses who can’t handle anything out of their comfort zone.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  322. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @The Alarmist

    One plausible scenario is for a couple strains of varying lethality be developed: The weaker “S” strain, amounting to little more than the common cold is loosed among the people of the attacking country and its allies to foster the beginning of herd immunity, while a far more lethal “L” strain is unleashed against the target country.

    This idea is debunked by the Cambridge geneological study, which provides a family tree for Covid19, all branches having a common origin.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  323. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    to which I should have added, since the earliest generation of the virus originated in South China, not Wuhan, those American soldiers Ron thinks distributed diseased bats around Wuhan, could not have been responsible for the original outbreak.

  324. @FLgeezer

    That is actually very normal. Exploiting a real crisis is par for the course. Also super effective.
    Just like how the most unsavoury laws got attached to the covid 19 1200$ help bill.

  325. @Si1ver1ock

    Confirmation like that would never see the light of day. As that would sure be the start of WW3.

  326. @FB

    Thousands of labs worldwide grow mammalian cells in culture for various experiments. We do that, and virtually every lab on the floor where we are also does that. It’s no rocket science. Cultured cells grow in sort of Petri dishes, which differ from the ones used for bacteria, as the plastic is treated to allow mammalian cells to attach (very few cell lines grow in suspension, most grow in monolayer attached to the bottom of the dish). Many of the most common cell lines are human in origin: HEK293, HeLa, etc. If you add to a dish of human cells a mix of viruses harvested from bats, some would multiply because they can enter human cells and reproduce in them.

    With most viruses their ability to infect human cells in culture is insufficient, as the living organism has the immune system that cell culture does not. With coronaviruses you don’t have this problem: they can suppress mammalian immune system (the mechanism of this we don’t quite understand).

    Starting from 500-5,000 species, you don’t need to speed up their evolution, just select the ones than can enter human cells (the rest won’t multiply, so you have built-in selection). RNA viruses naturally evolve a lot faster than DNA viruses and the rest of DNA-based life (like us) because they use two mechanisms generating a lot more errors than our standard DNA polymerase that duplicates the genome before every cell division. Most RNA viruses use reverse transcriptase (RNA-dependent DNA polymerase), so that their genome becomes DNA at some point in their life cycle. Coronaviruses have RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, so they never convert their genetic material into much more stable DNA.

    You can speed up mutation rate (which becomes evolution if you select for something) by adding certain nucleotide analogs to the medium that further increase the error rate of their RNA-dependent RNA polymerase. But to make this work, you need a virus that grows in the cells you culture to begin with, so it’s almost Catch 22. You can use primary culture of bat cells with additives facilitating mutations and then test the results on human cells, but that’s more complicated: primary cultures are a lot trickier than growing established cell lines.

    So, a tech with a bit of experience in cell culture and no creative ability can do the selection from those hundreds or thousands viral species you find in bats. Everything else requires higher caliber scientists.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Astuteobservor II
  327. Jaylonw says:
    @UK

    Just because you say so, does not mean its true.

  328. mcohen says:
    @Olivier1973

    Nah bullshit
    .catholic connection too strong.i see this article has primed the pump
    Italians make Ferraris and Chinese make cheap socks.
    I went to Milan 15 years ago and saw Chinese vendors selling cheap rubbish at the entrance to train stations.setting the bait.
    Confucius say eat bat and die.lol

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  329. Alden says:
    @Hempus

    Do you think obesity prevents the diaphragm muscles from working efficiently ? If the diaphragm is loaded with layers of lard would that hinder the operation of the diaphragm to keep the lungs functioning?

    • Replies: @Hempus
  330. For many weeks President Trump and his political allies had regularly dismissed or minimized this terrible health threat….

    Way to kind. They outright lied. Case in point, Senator Richard Burr. As chairman of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Burr knew enough about the impending train wreck to unload equities. He also shared what appears to be sensitive intelligence with his “Tar Heel Circle” donors.

    If Burr, Loeffler et. al. knew so did many other Republicans, Democrats and Trump.

    • Replies: @lysias
  331. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:

    If, and it’s a big If, the US did spread Covid in Wuhan, it certainly wasn’t through the military. After all, it wasn’t only the US that sent participants to the war games.

    Also, it’s not like Wuhan is closed from the world. Anyone here with a passport can visit Wuhan or any city in China. Wuhan has become something of a global hub. If China were a closed society, then the US might have key delegates or representatives to spread the disease. But as it’s so easy for anyone to go to Wuhan, why bother? Why not just send in a rogue agent disguised as businessman, tourist, or student?

    Still, I can’t imagine Trump or even members of the deep state sitting around the table and cooking up something this crazy. Rather, the virus probably came from bats or some ill-prepared food or the Wuhan Lab; or , it is the work of a rogue organization with close ties to Deep State but isn’t a part of it. It’s like Israeli agents are not part of US deep state but work close with it. The role of Israeli intelligence and 9/11 are still shrouded in mystery. Why were the Israelis so close to the terrorists, and why were they let go? Why is Arnon Milchan allowed to walk around freely in the US even though he admitted stealing secrets for the US? The honorable members of the Deep State may actually despise these rogue element but feel impotent to move against them because their bosses, the elected politicians and their top appointees, are so beholden to the Lobby.

    If rogue elements did it, they are mostly likely linked to Zionists who have close ties with hawks in US government. Rogue elements might have done it with wink-wink nod from members of official power.

    As for the viruses that wiped out pigs and poultry, it’s difficult to imagine Trump and other officials sitting around cooking up something that crazy. Of course, one could point to US support of terrorists in Syria and lying about it and getting away with it. But China is no Syria, and an act of sabotage like that would be too risky.

    Most likely, China still has a long way to go with sanitation and inspection with live stock. Too many corrupt party bosses who cut costs. Also, unlike Japanese or German culture, Chinese culture isn’t a gold medalist when it comes to hygiene and order. So, the problems probably began in China.

    But IF drones did spread disease to pigs and poultry, it may have been the work of rogue elements associated with globo-corporations. As globo-corporations have gotten more powerful than ever, they are co-operators with the deep state. Where is the dividing line between Amazon, Google, CIA, and big media? MICHAEL CLAYTON-kind of world. Also, when Wasps were the dominant capitalists, Jewish media served as counter-balance and were full of critique But with Jews dominating so much of big capital and globo trade, Jewish media seem to be less interested in exposing the rot. Fourth Estate is now just another wing of the Deep Power.

    Still, I can’t imagine the heads of the US pig and chicken industry getting together and cooking a plan to knock out Chinese livestock. Ole McDonald may have gotten rich but playing godfather?

    If rogue elements did it, it’s probably connected to the financial sector, especially as insiders make tremendous amounts of money by betting on futures and commodities. So, if these organizations hire rogue goons to carry out a hit on Chinese agriculture, they will know that Chinese demand for US products will rise, and then they can make a killing by investing in those futures. The US deep state probably didn’t do it but let it go because it was useful as a message to China that its food supplies are vulnerable to attack IF US and China were to go head to head.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Biff
  332. Ber says:
    @UK

    You are entitled to your opinion and I mine.

    As the Brits would say, one can disagree agreeably and this is a sign of a gentleman and a civilized mind.

    • Replies: @UK
  333. @Pft

    Lest we forget our dear friend Putin and “Mother Russia”

    That even tough guy Vlad — ‘The Papa’ or ‘The Number One’ as his cronies call him — has to bow to the virus is almost a relief.

    Because in the 20 years since he grabbed the presidency, no one at home has managed to stand in his way without being rolled over, removed, imprisoned, killed, cowed or bribed into submission.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/article-8227203/The-power-crazed-crook-Kremlin-Oligarchs-thought-hed-one-term.html

    • Replies: @vot tak
  334. @UK

    Seriously. How far removed from reality does someone have to be to think the Chinese government is “nurturing”? There’s a lot wrong with the right, but the left is completely out of their fucking minds.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  335. @Astuteobservor II

    You’re one of the guys begging for Ron’s golden shower.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  336. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Very interesting, thanks…

    So it’s not understood by science just how the mechanism works by which the corona viruses suppress the immune system…?

    Just goes to show how tough some of the riddles in nature really are…

    Does this hold for all of the several thousands of corona variants…?

    And here’s another goofy question…I’ve read that they haven’t yet linked the HIV virus to the actual immunodeficiency syndrome [AIDS]…nor come up with a vaccine after all these years…?

    Is any of that factual…?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  337. @AnonFromTN

    How the virus infects n kills. It is excellent. Probably the best video explaining how the virus works.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @AnonFromTN
  338. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:

    Come on Ron, what is this crap? The virus first appears in Wuhan, where the Wuhan Institute of Virology is. The same institute that has published multiple papers over the last several years on genetically engineering coronaviruses. And now the lab and the WHO have both been hacked and info retrieved reveals exactly the obvious: this virus was developed at the Wuhan lab. But hey, since they notified the WHO weeks too late it must be a US biowarfare attack right? The same WHO that cares nothing for the world or health, but is simply a propaganda outlet of China. Why would a world health organization refuse to acknowledge the existence of Taiwan? Why would a world health organization tell western countries not to wear masks, while China shut down the spread of the virus internally precisely by mandating masks? China was so open and transparent after they tried to cover it up for weeks, even arresting doctors for warning people about it. Lieber is mossad. He got in shit because he gave the Chinese too much info, rather than just what the jews want them to have. There’s a reason Israel was already working on a vaccine before the virus outbreak. It is disappointing that 4chan has better coverage of this subject than Unz.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @anon
  339. Smartass says:

    This site appears to be a front for the Chinese Communist Party.

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Seraphim
  340. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Yes, the government clearly felt there was something in it for them. Your point?

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  341. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    OK, you can’t imagine this or that. Now, what about the evidence?

    See #199. You only need a timeline.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  342. Devastatingly powerful circumstantial bolstering of the theory that the US Military Contingent to the Wuhan World Military Games brought the virus to China, are the facts that they were billeted in a hotel near the Wet Market, that 43 of the hotel staff were the first major cluster (although seven market workers, who had had contact with the hotel staff, were the first Chinese treated in hospital, but crucially, five of the US Military Contingent were treated in hospital for a fever on OCTOBER 25th, five days after the the Wuhan Games had started, and before any Chinese had been infected.
    And, purely coincidentally, of course, on the very day the Wuhan Games began, Bill Gates & cronies were doing a Coronavirus simulation in New York, called Event 201.
    Search: ‘WUHAN OUTBREAK: CHINA DEMANDS AN HONEST ACCOUNTING’ (Aletho News)
    and ‘Event 201: Bill Gates & World Economic Forum Simulated Coronavirus Outbreak 6 Weeks Before First Case in Wuhan’ (Prepare for Change).
    As you Yanks would say, ‘Go figure’!

    • Agree: Tsar Nicholas
    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  343. @Vojkan

    I think the principles I enumerated apply universally, even if few governments obey them.

    It’s cheaper in the long run to tell the truth, otherwise it’s difficult to justify rational and necessary policy changes. Isn’t that America’s current situation? We told ourselves comforting lies, ran into a ditch, and now cannot tell the truth (though Trump did briefly try at the beginning).

    People like and admire truth-tellers universally (they also kill them, but that’s another story), and will more willingly follow those they like and admire…

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  344. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Jeeez, what a crazy anon.

    I am probably one of the few that would hate getting a star. As I laced almost all my comments with profanity. Uncivil even as I ran out of patience long ago.

    So fuck off echo chamber chaser. Stop thinking the world revolves around you or your retarded opinions.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  345. vok3 says:

    For at least a week in January, the number of daily deaths the Chinese were reporting was a precise 3.1% of the total new infections each day.

    The following week, the number of deaths reported daily was 2.1% of the number of infetions each day. Not 2.2%. Not 1.9%. 2.1%. Every single day.

    If the Chinese numbers are accurate, this virus – while in China – was capable of keeping track of its own new infections and calibrating its kills to match. Strangely, it lost that ability once it departed Chinese territory.

    When they recently released updated numbers of dead in Wuhan, the new total was a mathematically precise 50% increase. Not 48%. Not 55%. 50.0%, rounded to the nearest whole number.

    This entire article is premised on the idea that the Chinese are not lying and are not making up numbers out of thin air, which is demonstrably false.

    The difference between East Asian and Euro-white society responses to this is due entirely to contact tracing and catching it quick, in non-liberal societies.

    As for the bioweapon theory: nobody builds a bioweapon out of a coronavirus, because the one factor common to all coronaviruses is that nobody’s ever successfully made a permanent vaccine for one. So it would inevitably get out of control. If you release a bioweapon, you make damn sure you have an inoculation for yourself first. The one overwhelmingly clear fact right now is that the US and its military are totally unprepared for dealing with this.

    There you go. I just demolished your whole piece in 1% of the verbiage.

    As for the Tiananmen discussion – I see a lot of assertions along the lines of “nothing happened”, and no precise description of what, precisely, is alleged that DID happen. It’s been a long time since Tiananmen but I remember following the news closely at the time and there was zero doubt in my mind, based on the evidence available, that the Chinese had systematically killed off a bunch of troublemaking students. Like Kent State, but a few thousand times more so.

    As for the embassy bombing, if all the facts alleged are correct, bombing it inentionally and then blandly lying about it sounds like a perfectly reasonable and justifiable thing to have done.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  346. JamesinNM says:

    Czech microbiologist interview. https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/czech-molecular-biologist-dr-sona-pekova-explains-in-layman-terms-that-covid-19-virus-originates-from-a-lab/

    Also, the NWO benefits from the destruction of the U.S. economy and striking fear in the hearts of Americans so they will beg to be saved by the government.

  347. d dan says:

    ==== How likely is this a leak in Wuhan Lab? ====

    For the Covid-19 to be a leak in Wuhan Lab, ALL the following extreme conditions have to be true:

    1. The Wuhan Lab had very incompetent research Ph.D.’s and management. Somehow those Chinese kids who consistently beat white people in math and science competitions in schools, grew up to become morons that they couldn’t handle basic safety protocols or lack the disciplines to understand the risks. Meanwhile, in the US and the west with many more P4 labs, employing order of magnitude more employees of diverse races (white, Asians, black, Latinos…) of vastly different competency and IQs, none of them managed to leak Covid-19 or any virus.

    2. The Chinese officials and government were extremely corrupt and stupid that they couldn’t bother to shut down the Wuhan Lab. Chinese government is so paranoid about security, reputation and stability that they could manage the largest censorship of free speech in Internet, employ prevalent facial recognition, build concentration camp for millions of Uighur, implement social credit systems for billions, etc, etc but they were so corrupt that they couldn’t cover their ass with a single Lab in the entire country. They had to be order of magnitude more incompetent than US CDC who managed to shut down Fort Detrick for something that did not involve any leak of any virus.

    3. The foreign researchers (e.g. Harvard’s Lieder has a large group of graduate students from Wuhan) involved in the extremely wide international contacts, funding and collaborations with Wuhan Labs didn’t even have the slightest hint of any safety violation or possibility of leaks. None of these researchers and western trained researchers complain, sound alarms or express concerns for those flagrant safety violations. Magically, of course, those gross safety violations were caught ONLY by western reporters from ZeroHedge, NY Times, BBC etc and CIA agents.

    4. Finally, as explained by Ron Unz, the accidental leak by Wuhan Labs conveniently happened at the absolutely most opportune time, right before the Chinese New Year, just in time for the greatest human movement on Earth.

    The combination of all these conditions still understate the implausibility of leak from Wuhan Labs. These are examined mostly from the China and Wuhan side of the situations. If we would to look at the US side, in terms of motives, opportunities, means, past behaviors and patterns, I find it extremely likely the source of Covid-19 came from US (accidentally, intentionally or both).

  348. JamesinNM says:
    @Tor597

    Hoping for short-lived guilty ones.

  349. @Frederick V. Reed

    Hi Fred. Having found you once more in sheer boring common sense mode may I ask for your informed insights into what it would have taken for some totally loose cannon in the US bio warfare/defense community to have achieved what has happened? Your weighting of the probabilities on aspects of the possible scenarios would be of special value. Your starting points would be just one, two, three and four co-conspirators would it not (WAGs not included)? Any more and your probability of running into mundane sanity would be 99% despite the Jim Jones and Waco experiences???

  350. UK says:
    @Ber

    Your opinion is based on thinking a totally ridiculous joke website is real. You are very, very, very stupid. That you could judge it real shows how absolutely inadequate your judgement is.

    Again, is it your opinion that there is a restaurant in Los Angeles which specialises in human flesh and even publically advertises this?

    Just kill me now…

  351. I tend to doubt that Chinese leaders have any overwhelming commitment to the truth, and the reasons for their greater veracity are probably practical ones. American news and entertainment completely dominate the global media landscape and they face no significant domestic rival. So China recognizes that it is vastly outmatched in any propaganda conflict, and as the far weaker party must necessarily try to stick closer to the truth, lest its lies be immediately exposed.

    While I think the jury is still out about what really started this pandemic, your line of reasoning is flawed. There is certainly a relationship between media control and the capacity to expose a lie *once it has been detected*. But all the media control in the world will not help you to detect a lie, because that depends on investigative powers which in turn have nothing to do with propaganda domination. In this case, access to certain parts of the Chinese territory is key to an investigation of what happened in China.
    Thus, the Chinese government is very much in the position of lying and getting away with it, as long as it bars foreign access to places that might be profitfully investigated. Also, since China is a dictatorship, it can easily erase clues and silence witnesses within that country. I am not implying that they have lied, just that they had that capacity and there was nothing too impractical about it.

  352. @Anonymous

    “the info retrieved reveals”????
    Please elaborate and source. I’m willing to believe Ron errs but his biases don’t leave him as having so little weight that his views can be brushed aside by assertion alone.

  353. @FB

    I am not a virologist, but to the best of my knowledge all coronaviruses have large genome, express many proteins, and can suppress mammalian immune system. (As an aside, everybody and his brother is a virologist now, just like very recently everyone was a military analyst, even people who do not know the difference between a screw and a bolt.)

    Judging by shrill advocacy for HIV research of LGBT community they believe that HIV causes AIDS. Frankly, I don’t know and don’t care much. HIV is a virus of choice: if you don’t want to get it, use condoms and do not reuse needles. Both needles and condoms are quite cheap, so anybody with a brain can afford them.

    As to vaccine, it’s a separate story. To develop a vaccine, you need a protein (or a piece of protein) that causes strong immunity, i.e., the production of high titer antibodies. Some protein sequences do that, some don’t for reasons we don’t understand. There is software that “predicts” immunogenicity of particular sequences, but its reliability is just a notch above Nostradamus. Besides, HIV infects the immune cells, so your ability to mount a response is blunted by HIV infection.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @glib
    , @Wizard of Oz
  354. glib says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Perhaps of interest, a colleague at UC Berkeley was in Wuhan Nov. 4-9(together with many others at a conference). He came back sick and developed pneumonia. I am waiting to hear through the grapevine if he is positive or not. Then there is the famous Prof. Remuzzi’s interview also stating the virus was circulating in Italy in November.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Polemos
  355. FB says: • Website
    @Astuteobservor II

    Yeah…I’m sure that a scientist who heads up one of the leading microbiology labs needs a youtube cartoon to learn about the virus…

    SMFH

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  356. AyeNon says:

    No one to my knowledge here even considers the possibility – concerning the so called blowback issue – of simple retaliation via simple misters etc. Curious omission to my simple mind. Thanks for an engaging article though.

  357. anon[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    Not counting the foreign tourists who died here, it’s only 43 in Australia.

  358. Bill says:
    @interesting

    If China thought it was being attacked, then it would move to gain control of information.

  359. vot tak says:
    @Smartass

    Appears the zio-faggot brigade feels threatened judging by their reactions here. 😀

    • Replies: @vot tak
  360. @denk

    Denk

    Why don’t you use your moral authority to end COVID-19? Why are you letting us suffer?

    And if you don’t have that kind of authority, who exactly are you to dismiss a thesis because you, personally, have lied about it and are of the opinion that it is false? What kind of authority _do_ you have?

  361. @UK

    Yet it has a living standard below 50 years of civil war Colombia?

    and, uh, this

    • Replies: @glib
    , @UK
    , @Poco
    , @Incitatus
  362. Jeremygg5 says:
    @Ozymandias

    Mind you that it was a novel disease, and it takes time to investigate its properties. From the timeline we could see that China took 2 or 3 weeks to determine that it was human-to-human communicable. That was tremendous speed considering that you need time to develop a test kit in order to execute said experiment.

    Take the H1N1 as a case study. The CDC has detected more than a dozen H1N1 confirmed cases since 2005, but did not warn of its human-to-human communicable property until 2009.
    https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

    Even assuming that China had been slow in warning, it is a moot point because the US intelligence had known since November that there was a brewing pandemic in Wuhan, which was a month earlier than the Chinese did (Curious eh? It perfectly fits the narrative that it was planted there during the Military World Games)

    Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

    US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
  363. @Astuteobservor II

    Yea, it is simple and tells you pretty much all we know. It does not tell you how much we don’t know about coronaviruses, though. Still, flattening the curve makes sense. Except if you go into a harsh lockdown, eventually more people would die of hunger than would have died of the disease. The “experts” would never tell you that it’s always a trade-off.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  364. @Hail

    Here’s my brief summary of that event. It includes eyewitnesses, and a follow-up.
    https://www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/

  365. @anon

    “eliminated that mad Ayatollah”???? I have searched but can’t find what you are referring to. Please elaborate (with best evidence).

  366. Mefobills says:
    @Anon

    Hint: Read the links I provide!

    GDP does not measure productivity, only activity.

    Everybody in the U.S. sells their house to their neighbor. This creates a lot of activity, yet no real increase or improvement in housing stock. GDP goes up.

    The “finance speculative sector” can show up as GDP, when it is mostly moving paper about, the same as the mortgage example above.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/01/gdp-frog-matchbox-david-pilling-growth-delusion/

    Large segments of the American population have minimal savings and cannot survive economic shock.

    Your argument about America’s saving’s rate is based on flawed data and doesn’t consider concentrations and class. A plutocracy can hold all the wealth as savings.

  367. glib says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Does the suppression work by simply exhausting the immune system? Here as in AIDS, often the cause of death are opportunistic bacterial infections.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  368. @Astuteobservor II

    That’s quite a pot-and-kettle comment.

  369. @FB

    Don’t knock it till you see it. It basically lays it all out so everyone can understand how covid 19 works.

    It was very informative for someone like me.

  370. @AnonFromTN

    Still the best video I have found explaining the virus in detail. Visual presentation was simple n easy to understand.

  371. Alden says:
    @Jason Crew

    You’re right that epidemics start in China and always have. Long before the China to India, the Mid East and Europe trade routes were established, migratory birds flew from their winter grounds in S China all over the world.

    If, if official figures are to be believed, Europe and the USA have suffered the worst in terms of deaths and economic shut downs.

    Neutral continents such as S America and Africa are hardly touched. If UNZ is to be believed China is so efficient that the China flu was eradicated as soon as it began.

    Sooo, why did the American government sprinkle the virus around Wuhan when the China virus didn’t affect China and Asia but badly affected the USA and Europe? Are all these deep state plotters so dis functional their virus didn’t work in China and east Asia?

    Maybe the virus was engineered to affect only Caucasians, American but not Mexican and S American Hispanics , American but not African blacks and NYC Chinese but not California Chinese?

    Who benefitted from the non epidemic? China was the least affected in terms of illness and death and not at all in its economy. America is not affected medically, but by a self inflicted economic shutdown. Less than half dead of this new China virus compared to last years flu pneumonia deaths.

  372. mike99588 says:
    @FB

    Failure? (for whom?)
    Serbia was bankrupted
    Clinton transferred our F117 technology
    UN agenda, interference and threats were advanced
    muslim invasion and colonization in Europe was advanced
    US interests, finances and Constitution were further eroded

  373. vot tak says:
    @vot tak

    Correction: the zionazi-nazi-faggot brigade. 😀

  374. @Just another serf

    Yeah. I haven’t seen anybody suggest that the deaths numbers are probably anything but an OVERCOUNT.

    What you are seeing is people planting the seeds for their initial predictions being basically correct no matter what the outcome.

    Nobody will ever admit that they made any mistakes or over-reactions in initial hysteria.

    I believe that has been discussed as “ret-conning” in recent years if I understand the term correctly.

    • Agree: Just another serf
  375. Biff says:
    @Anonymous

    Rather, the virus probably came from bats or some ill-prepared food

    “You can’t be serious?!”

    John McEnroe

  376. Mefobills says:
    @utu

    American troops were entering Bagdad, who and when organized special outfits who systematically were visiting Bagdad museum and looting it according to the shopping list?

    Ron Unz is underestimating their evil and abilities.

    It would take counterintel to mine data. For example, the finance markets could be analyzed for purposeful shorting to take advantage of pandemic shock. After 9-11 there were shorts on airlines that were statistically non-random, and hence were purposeful maneuvers.

    NSA has vacuumed up much of the worlds signals intelligence, and that data could be mined.

    No counter intel operation to dig out the truth.. or at least I haven’t heard of any.

    We live in clown world, and it was funded into existence.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  377. glib says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, you must not be aware of the world class high speed train network in Colombia. 🙂

    • Replies: @UK
  378. Seraphim says:
    @Smartass

    You must have provided yourself with enough toilet paper to keep you ass smart after producing the farts you think are ‘smart’ thoughts.

  379. anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    On Neil Ferguson:
    https://www.voltairenet.org/article209749.html

    On Ron Unz’s hysterical “a million or more British deaths”:
    https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/21/watch-perspectives-on-the-pandemic-4/

    The Ioannidis interview (4/17) is lucid, rational, and completely takes the wind out of the hysterical b.s..

    • Thanks: CanSpeccy
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  380. Ghali says:

    The U.S. ruling class (Republican and Democrats) are doing their best to deflect attention away from their regime’s own policy failures by blaming China and at the same time sperading anti-China racist propaganda.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  381. @glib

    Does the suppression work by simply exhausting the immune system?

    It appears to be more complex than that. For reasons we don’t quite understand most people do not get immune to coronaviruses (the common cold and flu ones, that were always with us), and even those who develop immunity lose it within a couple of years. For comparison, when you are immunized against TB of measles, you retain immunity for decades.

    Recent Russian studies suggest that this one behaves like the other coronaviruses: only a small fraction of people who recovered from it has high enough antibody titer for their plasma to be useful to treat severe cases. The majority has fairly low levels of antibodies. Here is good news, though: it is close enough to more common coronaviruses for cross-immunity to be possible. Again, according to Russian studies about 3% of the population have pre-existing antibodies that recognize it. Among medical workers this fraction becomes ~15%, which is understandable: they deal with patients suffering from cold and flu all the time.

  382. newrouter says:

    >Then on Jan. 23rd and after only 17 deaths, the Chinese government took the astonishing step of locking down and quarantining the entire 11 million inhabitants of the city of Wuhan,<

    Yea right "17 deaths" caused that reaction. lol

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  383. The pattern is so obvious. Shenkar’s “The Chinese Century” tells of US corporations in the late 90’s and 00’s begging China to accept Intellectual Property from many many US companies eager to trade for building plants and gaining access to those 1.3 billion buyers. Criminal, crazy, incompetent. The amorality of Zionism combined with the mercenary ethic of Americans and here we are: Small pox delivered to the Native Americans and sprayed over North Korea. Does anyone now wonder where Trump got the sense to ban flights from China? CIA whispered in his ear!

  384. Vuki says:
    @Greg Bacon

    We know well that in politics in America “the end justifies the means” When the IMF and the World Bank fail send in the marines or use your surrogates to do the dirty work.

    The Unz continues to shovel the same crap on Yugoslavia and he is still wrong about that event.

    We know who the Media serves in China and one has to be blind not to see that the corporate media bosses finances and appoint the political masters who sit in the Senate and Congress Washington.

    The fact that US dollar is the currency of choice inflated by 20% US benefits in its purchases and sales by 20%.

    Russia and China attacked this US benefit by attacking the dollar by using domestic currency in trade . They created the BRICS. Many small nations wanted to join. They were attacked one at a time and sent back into Stone Age. When Colour revolution failed in Russia and Tiananmen Square failed in China back to the drawing board get them one at a time. Someone in US must have read something about the Roman general Fabian.

    The first link to break was Brazil. The Generals were brought out of retirement and the first domino fell. Russia was next, first Georgia and then Ukraine but Vladimir did not blink. He know the history of his people so he got rid of the Judases that still seem to walk upright even though they lick boots daily.

    The only way to get at China, destroy its economy and foment unrest like Hong Kong under the pretext of building democracy. Its not going to happen. The queue or the pigtail is gone and its not going to come back. China is building connections and US will need to join.

  385. Anonymous[397] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    OK, you can’t imagine this or that. Now, what about the evidence?

    We can’t trust China. We can’t trust the Deep State, esp after Russia Collusion hoax, the mother of all hoaxes. We can’t trust the media that are totally corrupt and/or owned by globalist oligarchs.

    We’ll have to wait and see. Eventually, time has a way of telling… like the truth about Gulf of Tonkin. Or what really happened in the Great Leap Forward. Time proved US lied about events that led to Vietnam War. Time has proven Mao to be one of the biggest monsters of the 20th century.

    Truth is usually between official BS and alt media nuttery. Deep State usually pushes the Big Lie, and alt media have too many eccentrics who connect the dots in weird ways.

  386. 4truth says:

    Two points on the article:

    1.

    the short war did include one very embarrassing mishap

    One mishap? The entire US/NATO attack on Serbia in 1999 was an outrageous crime.

    2. According to Robert Kennedy, Jr., “Dr. Anthony Fauci’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease (NIAID) gave $3.7 million to scientists at the Wuhan Lab at the center of coronavirus leak scrutiny” (https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/u-s-governments-3-7-million-grant-to-wuhan-lab-at-center-of-coronavirus-outbreak/).

    So, the man who helped create the virus was then put in charge of the response to the pandemic which the virus caused.

  387. naill says:
    @Ozymandias

    Where is the evidence that China chose to deliberately infect the rest of the world?

    On the contrary, China proceeded with a lockdown the size of which has never been attempted in history.

    The possibility of the virus originating in the US now needs a closer look!

    Consider the US infection numbers and how large they are. Now the latest antibody testing suggests that the numbers are even larger than US are reporting. If that is true, perhaps the US numbers are not consistent with a virus moving from China to the US but in fact, could even support the possibility of the virus moving from the US to China and other parts of the world.

    Italy has suggested that possibility and has requested the US to posthumously investigate the earlier flu deaths in the US, but the US has flatly refused!! Why is the US so fearful of the truth coming out?

    • Agree: Jeremygg5
  388. @anon

    Does your retarded ass understand that prediction was based on USA doing nothing.

    No testing, no social distancing, no shelter in place.

  389. Cowboy says:

    The virus takes out dirty city people and people confined to nursing homes. Why is ronnie holding his pee pee?

  390. One thing I cannot understand is: why can’t the mainland Chinese themselves come up with a detailed and carefully argued article like this one to defend themselves against all the false accusations directed against them (assuming they’re indeed innocent)? In a country of more than 1 billion, can’t there be at least a couple dozen with the same command of English and the same grasp of the facts as Mr Unz? Or is it that they have indeed already made such a defense, except I haven’t yet come across it (presumably because the usual media outlets have ignored it or were paid to ignore it)? But if it was the case that they had indeed made such a defense and it was an informational blackout imposed by the (predominantly Western or Western-controlled) media that had prevented people like me from getting to know about it, couldn’t there have been at least some leakages, and/or could the Chinese media really be so feeble as to succumb so easily to such an informational blackout? Considering that the international reputation of their entire country is at stake — and how valuable ‘face’ is to the Chinese — their attempts to defend themselves would seem lame to me at best. Incomprehensibly lame. (Or did I miss something? Does anyone know?)

    Perhaps they might not have been really innocent after all. Perhaps their elite had been holding hands with the American elite behind the scenes.

  391. @Donald A Thomson

    “I stress that Australia and New Zealand did very badly (only about 10 times better than the USA but 4 times worse than China who we should have beaten easily)”…

    On what metric do you base your assertion?

    Here’s the death-rate per 100,000 figures as at 20 April 2020:

    [MORE]

    Country Total Per 100,000

    Spain 20453 043.52
    Italy 23660 039.43
    France 19718 030.34
    UK 16060 023.62
    Netherlands 3684 021.67
    Switzerland 1393 016.20
    Sweden 1540 015.40
    USA 39000 012.19
    Iran 5118 006.40
    Germany 4642 005.53
    Brazil 2462 001.16
    Mexico 650 000.50
    South Korea 234 000.46
    Philippines 409 000.38
    China 4600 000.32
    Cuba 34 000.31
    Argentina 134 000.30
    Australia 72 000.29
    Malaysia 89 000.28
    Saudi Arabia 97 000.28
    New Zealand 12 000.25
    Russia 361 000.25
    Egypt 239 000.23
    Indonesia 582 000.21
    Japan 236 000.19
    Afghanistan 33 000.11
    South Africa 54 000.09
    Pakistan 168 000.08
    Thailand 47 000.07
    Bangladesh 91 000.06
    India 559 000.04
    Taiwan 1 000.00

    Although that’s a few days ago now, it nonetheless shows that Australia, New Zealand, & a bunch of others, have done comparably well to China so far.

    Note also that Iran is doing far better than the “Exceptional Country” (ie, the Master Race) so far, despite the genocidal sanctions it has been enduring.

  392. @newrouter

    Probably when they found out how easily it is transmitted through the air.

  393. Olrik says:

    This is the 2015 paper where Chinese researcher Shi Zhengli (who is often cited as the Wuhan institute researcher behind the Covid-19 virus) is part of a larger research group based in the US with US funding that created an artificial or Chimeric Covid-19-like virus: “Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone.” SARS-CoV-2 is the formal name for Covid-19.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    This is an article based on a British research paper on the spread of Covid-19 globally and how it mutated into three specific types, with A the original type supposedly from bats:
    “Researchers found that the closest type of coronavirus to the one discovered in bats – type A, the original human virus genome – was present in Wuhan, but was not the city’s predominant virus type. Mutated versions of A were seen in Americans reported to have lived in Wuhan, and a large number of A-type viruses were found in patients from the US and Australia.”

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/10/coronavirus-mutated-three-distinct-strains-spread-across-world-12536852/
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211291/U-S-government-gave-3-7million-grant-Wuhan-lab-experimented-coronavirus-source-bats.html

    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

  394. @Felix Culpa

    So what is that “something”?

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  395. @Paul Barbara

    “…And, purely coincidentally, of course, on the very day the Wuhan Games began, Bill Gates & cronies were doing a Coronavirus simulation in New York, called Event 201…”

    That was the classical “drill-before-the-false-flag”.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  396. Jeremygg5 says:
    @Ozymandias

    Sorry, bud, ABC lied. Fake News:
    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/9/pentagon-says-covid-report-cited-abc-doesnt-exist/

    The Israeli Intelligence and ABC reported that the US Intelligence knew about the pandemic since November.

    The Pentagon denies it.

    Before you sue that it is fake news, please explain why the Pentagon is more trustworthy than the ABC and the Israeli Intelligence .

  397. MEH 0910 says:

    A few weeks later, the Chinese government began gingerly raising the possibility that the coronavirus may have been brought to Wuhan by the 300 American military officers visiting that city, and was fiercely attacked by the Trump Administration for spreading anti-American propaganda. But I strongly suspect that the Chinese had gotten that idea from our own publication.

    • Replies: @Paul Barbara
  398. Trinity says:
    @Donald A Thomson

    How much does hasbara pay you per word?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  399. Mefobills says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Note also that Iran is doing far better than the “Exceptional Country” (ie, the Master Race) so far, despite the genocidal sanctions it has been enduring.

    I didn’t see Israel on your list?

    There are confounding factors:

    1) There are different versions of the virus, possibly three versions.
    2) Deaths are being attributed to the virus, when the victim has pre-conditions and may have died anyway.
    3) The data sets tend to group fat with skinny, old with young, healthy people with those who have pre-conditions.
    4) Ambient Temperature and Humidity.

    Any data set that you see, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Germans are known for careful data collection, so less than a grain salt with their data.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  400. geokat62 says:
    @Mefobills

    After 9-11 there were shorts on airlines…

    PTI, but did you mean to write BEFORE 9-11?

  401. anon[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    America put the Communists into power in 1949, protected it’s northeast borders [Korean War],southern border [undermining the French, Vietnam War, bombing Laos 1965-73], eastern border[7th Fleet in the Formosa Straits, troops in Japan for 75 years], western border [occupied Tibet since 1950, where’s the RTP?].
    General Marshall and Harry Hopkins sorted it all out with Mao during their visit to China in 1942.
    So, yeah, if something bad comes out of China, of course the United States is in back of it.

  402. naill says:
    @UK

    China banned all movement to the rest of China from Wuhan while not only allowing the Wuhan infected to infiltrate the West

    The shutdown of public transport and flights would have stopped movement out of Wuhan into the rest of China and other countries. Why did Western media, while it was happening, not point out that the lockdown only stopped movements domestically? Because it stopped ALL travel outside of Wuhan. In fact western media claimed that China was sacrificing Wuhan to save the world.

    Th other factor that would have stopped travel from China to most western countries is the need for a visa. Anyone who has had to apply for a visa ought to know how long that process takes.

    In any case, the number of travellers from China to US in that period would have been minimal as it was during Chinese New Year when families reunite. The US Government is clutching at straws to try and push this narrative. The most likely reason US has such high numbers of infections is most likely the virus was already circulating in the US.

    • Disagree: UK
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  403. @SomeoneInAsia

    The short answer is they are biding their time – they have already asked the US for information about their first cases, and the hospitals that treated them – information which has not been furnished.
    Plus of course, neither China nor Russia are led by a Moron puppet.

  404. @MEH 0910

    Or perhaps by the fact that five of the US Military Games Contingent were treated in hospital for fever in Wuhan on 25th October, and the hotel they were billeted in was the first cluster of Chinese cases, 43, although seven market traders (who had had contact with the hotel staff were treated first).

  405. vot tak says:
    @SomeoneInAsia

    More like “someone in tel aviv”…

    • Replies: @SomeoneInAsia
  406. @SomeoneInAsia

    Yes, you are missing the basics of PR and politics. Why should China give credibility to any anti China speculations by involving itself in undignified disputation with wild statements from nutty Twitterers and cranky polemics? When and if it pounced it would want to be conclusive and deadly press close as possible.

    • Replies: @SomeoneInAsia
  407. Miro23 says:
    @Joe Webb

    Where I live, near Ron Unz, the Chinese are everywhere. local white liberals have complained to me about Chinese…that they lie, cheat and steal.

    Ron Unz is a racial democrat. He believes in immigration and will have nothing to do with racial IQ, etc.

    Take the parsimonious view ….what is the simplest explanation. Race is the simplest explanation.

    Ron goes on and on and on.

    If race is the simplest explanation, what does it predict?

    USA: Jewish dominated and dedicated to Jewish tribal interests (policy centered on Israel, Neo-con agenda, financialization, Jewish preference, anti-nationalism) + protection of the Jewish elite ( and collaborators).

    China: Chinese dominated and dedicated to the advancement of ethnic Chinese (most of the population) + protection of the Chinese elite.

    Russia: Russian dominated and dedicated to the advancement of ethnic Russians (most of the population) + protection of the Russian elite.

    Western Europe: US (Jewish) dominated although less so now. A hybrid European – Jewish power structure still shadowing the US (media, immigration, LGBT, “hate speech” etc.). Protection of a US dominated mixed elite.

    So agreed, that race (power holding race) is the simplest and best indicator of how a country works. For example, it predicts the attitude to immigration: open frontiers and citizenship in the US and Western Europe vs. closed frontiers without citizenship in China/Russia.

    • Replies: @Joe Webb
  408. @Mefobills

    “I didn’t see Israel on your list?”

    I was referring to Obama’s “Exceptional Country”, the same one which is sanctioning half the world…
    Not to deny that OTHER “Master Race” – to quote Netanyahoo, “The Goyim are little more than livestock.”

    Israel’s absence from the list is an oversight – they were actually doing about as well as China & etc last time I looked.

    I agree emphatically with the qualifying factors that you cited. It’s particularly interesting that three different strains originally “popped up” in China, Iran & Italy, at pretty much around the same time. I get the impression that the European / Middle East strains are (way) more potent than the Chinese one. Hence the greater impact on the East vs West coasts in the USA.

    The figures used in the list are just based on official total death counts, versus total population (scaled to “per 100,000”). As you suggest, the actual no. of deaths due to Coronavirus may not be the same as the officially reported tally.

    But it’s a simple general measure to “feel out” the global situation.

  409. Seraphim says:
    @Ozymandias

    Sure that the Pentagon could safely deny that there were reports from November 2019.

    Washington Post:
    “State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses”, by By
    Josh Rogin Columnist April 14, 2020″:

    [MORE]

    “Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.
    In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.
    What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.
    “During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory,” states the Jan. 19, 2018, cable, which was drafted by two officials from the embassy’s environment, science and health sections who met with the WIV scientists. (The State Department declined to comment on this and other details of the story.)
    The Chinese researchers at WIV were receiving assistance from the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas Medical Branch and other U.S. organizations, but the Chinese requested additional help. The cables argued that the United States should give the Wuhan lab further support, mainly because its research on bat coronaviruses was important but also dangerous.
    As the cable noted, the U.S. visitors met with Shi Zhengli, the head of the research project, who had been publishing studies related to bat coronaviruses for many years. In November 2017, just before the U.S. officials’ visit, Shi’s team had published research showing that horseshoe bats they had collected from a cave in Yunnan province were very likely from the same bat population that spawned the SARS coronavirus in 2003.
    “Most importantly,” the cable states, “the researchers also showed that various SARS-like coronaviruses can interact with ACE2, the human receptor identified for SARS-coronavirus. This finding strongly suggests that SARS-like coronaviruses from bats can be transmitted to humans to cause SARS-like diseases. From a public health perspective, this makes the continued surveillance of SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and study of the animal-human interface critical to future emerging coronavirus outbreak prediction and prevention.”
    The research was designed to prevent the next SARS-like pandemic by anticipating how it might emerge. But even in 2015, other scientists questioned whether Shi’s team was taking unnecessary risks. In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “gain-of-function” experiments.
    As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley.
    “The cable tells us that there have long been concerns about the possibility of the threat to public health that came from this lab’s research, if it was not being adequately conducted and protected,” he said…
    No extra assistance to the labs was provided by the U.S. government in response to these cables. The cables began to circulate again inside the administration over the past two months as officials debated whether the lab could be the origin of the pandemic and what the implications would be for the U.S. pandemic response and relations with China.
    “The cable was a warning shot,” one U.S. official said. “They were begging people to pay attention to what was going on.”
    Inside the Trump administration, many national security officials have long suspected either the WIV or the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention lab was the source of the novel coronavirus outbreak. According to the New York Times, the intelligence community has provided no evidence to confirm this. But one senior administration official told me that the cables provide one more piece of evidence to support the possibility that the pandemic is the result of a lab accident in Wuhan
    “The cable was a warning shot,” one U.S. official said. “They were begging people to pay attention to what was going on.”
    No extra assistance to the labs was provided by the U.S. government in response to these cables. The cables began to circulate again inside the administration over the past two months as officials debated whether the lab could be the origin of the pandemic and what the implications would be for the U.S. pandemic response and relations with China.
    Inside the Trump administration, many national security officials have long suspected either the WIV or the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention lab was the source of the novel coronavirus outbreak. According to the New York Times, the intelligence community has provided no evidence to confirm this. But one senior administration official told me that the cables provide one more piece of evidence to support the possibility that the pandemic is the result of a lab accident in Wuhan”
    @https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

  410. @AnonFromTN

    Either this (what you are saying regarding the possibility of Covid19 being engineered) is bullshit, or the data we’ve been reading/watching from i.e. Cottrell, Webb, the Indian academics etc regarding the Covid19 genome are bullshit.

    Four inserts from HIV, specifically for the glycoprotein sheath on the hook interface. Those four inserts happened zoonotically? Hmmm.

    The massive copy paste from I think two distinct SARS-like variants.

    Cottrell seems quite credible to me, and he says for sure engineered. His reasoning seems to me sound. Of course I haven’t seen anything firsthand, and am not an expert, fog of phoney war and all that…

    I’m no subject-matter expert, but either you are purveying bullshit or they are. If you are doing so, and doing so unintentionally, I would suggest taking a closer look at available data on the genome for this virus. If this aspect is considered sensitive, I suppose there could be some obfuscation on the point, but the genome is published, so I think the basic points can be recovered beyond any scrubbing of this or that publication.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  411. @Tor597

    But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak.

    Data for 21 April, 2020

    United Arab Emirates: Confirmed 7,755; fatalities: 46

    Iran: confirmed 84,802; fatalities: 5,297

    Saudi Arabia: confirmed 11,631; fatalities: 109

    Qatar: confirmed 6,533; fatalities: 9

    Kuwait: confirmed 2080, fatalities 11

    Bahrain: confirmed 1973; fatalities 7

    Iran’s isolation and reduced traffic and commerce caused by American sanctions does not explain this glaring disparity with her neighbors. Just saying.

  412. @Ozymandias

    Agreed.

    This silly boutique narrative was old a month ago.

    Orange-man bad; China, good.

    The word “obsessive” comes to mind.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  413. @Trinity

    That seems like a very stupid thing to say. Can you justify it by any process of reasoning? I don’t even see what your problem with it is from an anti Israel point of view so perhaps you could address that too.

  414. @Otto von Komsmark

    Ron Unz has done it again!! Good job, I’ve always thought the standard “Wuhan lab leak” theory seemed flawed

    Flawed = I don’t like it. Americans bad; Chi-coms good.

    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  415. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @glib

    a colleague at UC Berkeley was in Wuhan Nov. 4-9(together with many others at a conference). He came back sick and developed pneumonia. I am waiting to hear through the grapevine if he is positive or not.

    And beside visiting Americans and Canadians, there are three quarters of a million N. Americans resident in China many of whom must take trips home.

    So what with conference visitors, business people, tourists, Chinese resident in N. America and N. Americans resident in China, there must have been many thousands of people who traveled from China to N. America in the earliest days of the Chinese epidemic, and who could have put Covid19 into circulation here well before Christmas.

    Maybe that explains the “flu” I had in January, passed on by a visiting grandchild who’d got it from cousins in Vancouver, home to many Chinese Canadians. I’ve had flu a few times, including the Asian flu of ’57/’58, which killed 70,000 Americans, and this year’s was as bad as any I’ve experienced.

    • Replies: @glib
  416. @Godfree Roberts

    What reliable sources have you for the 140 average IQ figure? It sounds plausible – like non affirmative action entry to Harvard e.g. – but I would be interested to know what psychometric tests the Chinese use amongst other queries that come to mind.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  417. Miro23 says:
    @chris

    The only thing I don’t get about the bioweapon theory, which otherwise seems relatively probable, is the question of the loyalty of the secret service community to this president.

    Trump surely knows that these agencies are crawling with actively and passively treasonous operators. If you add the active animosity toward him by Democratic-cum-media establishments, he could count on no more than 25% of these people to stay loyal to him.

    You have it back to front. Trump has to stay loyal to them – not viseversa. If he does what they want they celebrate him. For example, Trump’s Syrian missile strikes had the MSM calling him “Presidential”.

    The MSM is the true voice of US power – and right now it’s on full volume about the “China virus” – building a generalized rejection of everything Chinese.

    No doubt there are other issues behind this generalized attack on China ( Ignoring Iran sanctions? 5G encryption? US dollar reserve status? ).

    • Replies: @chris
    , @Anon
  418. @Wizard of Oz

    QUOTE: ***When and if it pounced it would want to be conclusive and deadly press close as possible.***

    And couldn’t they do so by getting, say, some reputable academician (or group of academicians) to do some presentation — in English (the better to reach a wider audience with) — in which the facts are offered like they are in the above article, references and all? That would be something that would carry weight — much more weight than disputes with wild statements from nutty Twitterers. And that is what would prompt more people to seriously think: Oh, seems the Chinese have been wronged after all. Right?

    Well, perhaps I’m being naive; I don’t know. I tell you, with all the half-truths, guesses and vested interests working behind all the stuff we get from the media nowadays, I sometimes really wish I had the powers of the Blue Fairy. Anytime she was lied to the liar’s nose would lengthen visibly. What a different world we would live in then…

  419. denk says:
    @anon

    assumes that Chinese are actually smart people and can stick it to the West too

    People who could conceive and carry out your diabolical plan need not be smart, but they have to be grade A treacherous swines.

    Who framed the Chinese as CCP’s fifth columns in Indon, goaded the army to wipe out almost the entire Chinese community in 1965 ?

    Who orchestrated ethnic riots in Tibet, 2008, then cried Han brutality ?

    Who incited bloodbath against the Han in Xinjiang 2009, then switched on their bull horn to incite a global jihad against the Chinese ?

    Who engineered the color rev in HK, then screamed CCP ‘intervention’ in HK’s internal affair ?

    Who’r behind the mother of all col rev in TAM, then perpetrated that ‘massacre’ hoax ?

    Who’r the acknowledged world leader in FF,
    Blaming the victims ?

    Still dont get it ?
    The same [[[mofo]]] who destroyed Iraq for that baby incubator fiction.

    Understand now ?
    Its your evil projection all along

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @denk
  420. Hail says: • Website
    @Felix Culpa

    Wittkowski is giving a series of updates, if anyone is interested in seeing his own words. I have transferred them here onto the Unz Review for easy viewing/reference:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/what-is-australia-doing-right/#comment-3850540

    [MORE]

    That comment is one in a series of replies with “Updates from Knut Wittkowski.”

    For example:

    Facebook and USA Today have declared Wittkowski persona non grata for spreading false information:

    Kevin [wrote:]

    Facebook dubbed Professor Wittkowski statements on herd-immunity as mis-information, quoting a USA Today Article Fact Checking Professor Wittkowski. I thoroughly disagree with USA Today “analysis”, but be aware.

    Knut Wittkowski responds:

    Thanks! The “fact checker” ruled “the claim that herd immunity would stop COVID-19 rather than flattening the curve to be partly false.” I tried to contact the Editor of USA Today to get the facts right, but could not get any response.

    • Thanks: 9/11 Inside job
    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  421. Vojkan says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Again, I agree that truth is more rational than lies, not only economically. I even think that lying is bad for mental health as it pits consciousness against subconsciousness, as the conscious negation of reality conflicts with the subconscious perception of it. Due to that conflict, many liars seem to believe in their lies as they need to convince themselves first. Mythomania results from that conflict. Dementia can result from that conflict.
    However, I disagree with your assertion that people like and admire truth-tellers. In a faithless world they don’t. They prefer comforting lies to difficult truths. Without God to relieve them from their fear of death, people have resorted to multiple surrogate beliefs and they tend to stick to them like dogs stick to bones. Try to take them away and they’ll bite your hand. How do you think we came to be ruled by sociopaths?
    Speaking of sociopaths, the establishment in the USA, as that in France or the UK, does believe that it can make up for the damage done by its lies by doubling down on them because truth just isn’t an option. I don’t think it can work permanently. They think that as it has worked until know, there is no reason it won’t work again. Arguably, the current elites don’t exude intelligence but they haven’t created he system, they have inherited it from people who weren’t exactly dummies.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  422. Seraphim says:
    @naill

    There were a number of overseas Chinese in China for the New Year, stopped by the Chinese and desperate to fly back, appealing to their Governments to put pressure on the Chinese to be allowed to fly out. Australia had a great number of international students caught in China and was as desperate to get them back in time for the opening of the new school year.

  423. @Beefcake the Mighty

    nur·ture /ˈnərCHər/ verb: nurture; 3rd person present: nurtures; past tense: nurtured; past participle: nurtured; gerund or present participle: nurturing; care for and encourage the growth or development of. e.g., “Jarrett was nurtured by his parents in a close-knit family.”

    In real life, nurture looks like this:

    and this:

    and this:

    • Thanks: Jeremygg5
  424. chris says:
    @Miro23

    Good point, Miro.

    … Though at the point at which they would have picked up this off-the-shelf plan, in the fall of 2019, they were busy gathering up info to impeach him; an impeachment as doomed to fail as it was transparent. Meaning, it was more like a nuisance than a real threat.

  425. GuestAug says:

    The link labeled “The Myth of Tiananmen” at the end of the article points to an unrelated YouTube video (https://youtu.be/t1BiBnEUqKw). Perhaps someone in charge of this page would like to fix that.

  426. @Alden

    epidemics start in China and always have. ?

    Spanish Flu, the most lethal epidemic in living memory, started in Kansas, in 1918.

    Swine Flu, the next big hitter, originated at F. Dix, NJ, in 1976.

    H1N1, the next pandemic, came to the world from San Diego, CA, in 2008.

    We don’t know where Covid-19 originated because the US banned testing for it until March 1, holds all discussions of it in secure facilities, and refuses to release details of its index case to the WHO.

    Nothing to see here..

  427. Portions of that enormously valuable wreckage were carefully gathered by the grateful Serbs, who delivered it to the Chinese

    LOL. The F-117 is from 1981. Commies want to study our 18 year old technology to advance themselves. Same as it ever was.

    • Replies: @Jeremygg5
  428. denk says:
    @denk

    Exercise that turned live….

    Now why’d a Carrier Strike Group spent an entire year to practice on ‘humanitarian relief op’, prior to the Asian tsunami ???

    On the morning of 27 December, the Australian (New York owned) media was making it very clear that the most badly hit nation in the region was Sri Lanka, an island at the southern tip of India, which like Australia is a member nation of the British Commonwealth. Accordingly, Tim Costello, head of one of Australia’s largest charities, made immediate plans to fly to the area and assess the need for aid. But that same morning, Little Johnny was dancing to a very different tune, which, based on his known subservience, must have been playing down his secure telephone line from Wall Street.

    In true covert manner, Little Johnny secretly dispatched two RAAF Hercules transport planes packed with supplies to Malaysia on “Stand By”, and directed two more to Darwin in Australia’s north. Please note that if Little Johnny had any humanitarian concerns at all, all four Hercules could have flown directly to Commonwealth partner Sri Lanka, where every other Australian had already been told by the media that aid was needed. But no, it wasn’t to be, and Little Johnny waited patiently for orders from New York.

    —————-

    Needless to say the Australians were merely the advance party, soon to be joined by a curiously well prepared and equipped U.S. Military, though it is doubtful that any of the officers and men involved really comprehend what is going on. Only a handful thought to question why they had been spending a whole year training for a “Humanitarian Mission”, when the whole point of the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps is normally to kill people in very large numbers. Just look at Fallujah, people, look at Fallujah.

    As if by magic, the Pentagon managed to have two battle groups ready to sail at an instant’s notice from Hong Kong and Guam during the normally chaotic Christmas to New Year period. Crikey! Military discipline has come a hell of a long way since my day, when everyone including the ship’s cat was sleeping it off at some highly questionably hostelry or another. Not these 10,000+ Americans though, who must have been standing rigidly to attention beside their hammocks day and night, tugging furiously at their forelocks whenever an officer of NCO came in sight.

    https://educate-yourself.org/cn/viallssumatra2004tsunami05jan05.shtml

  429. @Wizard of Oz

    Assuming a normal distribution, there are only about 10,000 people in the US who perform at +4SD and a similar number in Europe, so this is quite a select population (roughly, the top few hundred high school seniors each year in the US). If you extrapolate the NE Asian numbers to the 1.3 billion population of China you get something like 300,000 individuals at this level, which is pretty overwhelming.

    Asian-White IQ variance from PISA results https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2010/05/assortative-mating-and-far-tail-of.html
    https://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/218926/steve-hsus-calculation-of-geniuses-in-china

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wizard of Oz
  430. @denk

    Some of it justified but so much BS that suggests you seek to educate yourself more broadly, even if only to know and understand your enemies. No I won’t elaborate: just do yourself a favour and read widely with due modesty.

  431. @AnonFromTN

    “infects the immune [sic] cells”???? What does that mean? Infects the cells [which? Are they unique?] that create or mediate immunity???

  432. Alden says:
    @St-Germain

    I read the link nothing new.

    It’s just a summary of everything posted on UNZ and other pro China sites. The few pulmonary deaths last summer attributed to vaping, but now attributed to Covid, the closing of Fort Detrick last summer because a dangerous virus escaped, Japanese tourists coming back from Hawaii with covid although no cases were reported in Hawaii, the American military sports teams sprinkling the virus around Wuhan in December.

    It reminds me very much of all those 1980s articles claiming AIDS was a heterosexual disease that had nothing to do with extremely promiscuous sodomy.

    The following is the only statement about covid that is true. This new Black Plague that’s going to kill us all has resulted in half the flu deaths than the 2017-18 and 2028-19 flu seasons. It’s not a Plague. It’s just a mild flu season. And classifying an 85 year old already in hospice care as a Covid death is just a scam to get the recovery money.

    The mass media Covid hoax and the state government lockdowns have some evil purpose. We just don’t know what they are yet.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  433. Half Back says:
    @Ozymandias

    Like Jeremygg5, one denial and that’s that. Move along nothing to see here. Sar/

    The reason why the Pentagoon deny the report is because the gig is up and logically it leaves the US weapon attack as highly feasible. This is the second deny now and you know when they deny it twice officially, it’s got to be true.

  434. Anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    He was not a virologist, unlike professor Montagnier who co-discovered HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) and received a Nobel prize.

    Montagnier is not a nanotechnologist, unlike Prof. Lieber, who pioneered nanotech for use in detecting viruses. Lieber’s work enabled China to detect the bioweapon attack relatively early and mitigated the damage. The virus was supposed to spread much more widely and cause much more economic damage before being detected and contained by China.

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2004/10/sensor-detects-identifies-single-viruses/

    Two of the world’s biggest threats may someday be reduced by wires thousands of times thinner than a hair but capable of detecting a single virus. The specter of worldwide viral epidemics is always with us, so detecting them quickly offers the possibility of saving thousands of lives. The pathogens also can be stealthy biological weapons, making their positive detection a vital national defense requirement.

    “We want to find a single virus before it finds you,” says Charles Lieber, Hyman Professor of Chemistry at Harvard University. Tests recently completed in his laboratory show that these unimaginably thin nanowires can sense and distinguish between viruses that cause flu, measles, and eye infections. Lieber believes future versions will be able to spot HIV, Ebola, SARS, West Nile, hepatitis, bird flu, and other dangerous viruses.

    • Replies: @Sean
  435. Jeremygg5 says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    LOL. The F-117 is from 1981. Commies want to study our 18 year old technology to advance themselves. Same as it ever was.

    China Becomes Top Filer of International Patents in 2019

    With 58,990 applications filed in 2019 via WIPO’s Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT) System, China ended the U.S. (57,840 applications in 2019) reign as the biggest user of the PCT System that helps incentivize and spread innovation – a position previously held by the U.S. each year since the PCT began operations in 1978.
    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2020/article_0005.html

    I believe you got it in reverse….

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  436. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @vok3

    There you go. I just demolished your whole piece in 1% of the verbiage.

    See #199. If you skirt that evidence, then … well, you tell me.

  437. In my time the Empire has carpet bombed us with:

    Fear of the RED terror hiding under our beds.

    Fear of the MUSLIM terror hijacking us in the skies.

    And now, fear of the VIRUS terror lurking within.

    Fool me once, shame on you…..

    Fool me twice……. or thrice??????

    Wake up people, your country is less yours than you think!

  438. Hempus says:
    @Alden

    Thanks for this question! What most people and also most physician do not properly understand is that breathing is also an energy production “plant”. But to “use” energy it has to be transformed to be able to float further.

    I give you an example how produced energy cannot be used:
    If you have a cable drum, for example a 5 pin 380 voltage cable and you do not unfurl the cable and use it to run 5 spotlight each 2 KWh……after a while the electro magnetic field in the unfurled cable drum will become so strong that the energy is not able to float through the wire.

    The same happens also with your pc…if you just store the files and never delete them at some point the storage is full and any additional file (energy) makes your pc slow and slower..in the end there is blockage.

    Of course obesity is a king of stored energy. Energy which is not transformed into a movement.

    Thats why we love dance or even football so much because it is an art of transformation.
    Yes, untransformed “stored” energy is a problem for the breathing especially in situations of shock, stress and panic.

    But it is also very important to open the upper lobe’s of the lungs properly otherwise your diaphragm is quickly overloaded with centripetal static energy and blocks the ability to open the lungs easily.
    What all this sick people need is an intelligent gymnastic of the breathing muscles to be able to dance into their “inside” space.

    • LOL: utu
    • Replies: @Alden
  439. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Look who’s back, infecting another healthy discussion.

    Before interacting with this “Wizard of Oz” character, be aware that he/she/they often draw other commenters in with questions and requests that are seldom resolved to his/her/their satisfaction, or with cryptic insinuations that distract discussion.

    The same person also fuzzes up threads by pretending to be more than one commenter, the technique known as “sock puppetry.” See under Mr. Derbyshire’s February 15, 2019, article comment ## 28, 42, 43, 44, 68, 122, where he/she/they got sloppy also posting as “Anon[436].”

    Among this website’s oddest, sophisticatedly trollish commenters.

    • Thanks: FB
  440. Alden says:
    @Hempus

    I took anatomy in college. I remember a lot of it.

  441. CENSORSHIP & INTIMIDATION
    As I read my daily Lew Rockwell, I hit your article “Did the US use a bioterror weapon against China?” ………. or something like that because as I was reading it, it was taken down.
    This is the first time I have ever seen this — of course heard about it — but never experienced it.
    The article in Lew Rockwell was different than the one you publish on your site — therefore there was something ‘dangerous’.
    PLEASE REPUBLISH THAT ARTICLE HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks,
    HolyRoller

    • Replies: @anonymous
  442. Jimsy says:

    These American Pravda articles by Ron Unz are great. I recently found an interview with Mr. Unz on the internet which readers might want to check out. The interviewer is George Galloway, the former MP, and it’s on Galloway’s Sputnik radio program, M.O.A.T.S.

    (Note: The interview starts about halfway through the program.)

    The author of these American Pravda articles which I’ve enjoyed speaks as smoothly and articulately as he writes — quite a talent. He reminds me in that way of his fellow Californian, the late Alexander Cockburn.

  443. Bolteric says:

    Mr. Unz has a new nickname: Spot-on Ron.

  444. Alden says:

    As of April 21, the worldwide deaths from Covid 19, are 177,496 out of a world wide population of 7 billion.

    That’s a fact, not speculation.

  445. PeterMX says:

    This is the first time I have read anything about the east Asian countries competent actions to stop the spread of the virus. None of the mainstream media meatheads have enough braincells to postulate that. I’m not sure why I didn’t think it myself. I’m aware they are highly competent regarding most things and I noticed Germany had few deaths for a long time and was doing a good job compared to many other countries but I think the fact the European Union has no borders anymore (until recently re-erecting them) and people can travel freely helped spread the virus in Europe and maybe I’m wrong but I tend to thnk European countries and the USA get more international visitors than many east Asian countries. I also think island nations like Japan and Great Britain are more insulated and should be able to counter the virus better except that Boris Johnson might be an idiot. According to someone he wanted to “immunize” the British by letting it spread.

    But Mr. Unz is correct. The east Asian countries fought the virus more competently too, that makes sense.. Simlarly, I’m sorry I have to say it but the fact that Italy and Spain led the world (after China) in victims so long does not surprise me at all. Those are two beautiful countries but if I had to pick 2 European countries that would not do well combatting the virus, they would be near the top of the list.

    But for a long time I couldn’t understand why all China’s neighbotrs had so few victims and Italy and Iran were the most infected, behind China, so when Gilad Atzmon’s article suggeted Isreal and/or the US may have deliberately spread it to Iran, that sounded plausible. I think if any country would do such a thing, it would be Israel. Unfortunately the US might too. The discussion regarding the bombing of the Chinese embassy in this article and many other things the US has done (lying about Iraq having WMD, etc.) shows that.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  446. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The Haskell county Kansas flu later known as Spanish flu began in 1913. Haskell county is under one of the migratory bird routes from China. H1H1 came to San Diego from China.

    You don’t know any history Godfree You’re just an advertising man for the government of China.

    You’re no different from a J Walter Thompson AD campaign.

    As of today, 177,496 world wide deaths out of a population of 7 billion.

    It’s not a Plague. It’s a milder than usual flu season. Sone idiots claim it started in Wuhan China, the country all the plagues come from. Other idiots claim it was a plot by Donald Trump to create a Plague at Fort Detrick and sprinkle it around Wuhan during the Military games.

    You all are idiots. The mass media are idiots.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  447. Seraphim says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    Actually it should be Chi-coms bad, Americans worse.

    • Replies: @Gleimhart Mantooso
  448. @Wizard of Oz

    Watch this. It explains the virus for normies like us. It is simple and very precise.

  449. @Tor597

    I concede that this event has pushed most Americans into hating China, and that the elites have made out like bandits during this crisis. Also, I always thought that the CEO’s mass retiring was related to Epstein, but it being related to the Wuhan plague is an interesting theory.

    That said, I think there is a little bit of switching the goal posts going on here. If this was a bioweapon was the intention to:

    A. Suspend Chinese business and keep them hamstrung.

    or

    B. Sour the US public mood on China, as a prerequisite to prime the country for war.

    If theory A, then the plan has backfired, as US businesses have shut down too, and we don’t know at this point if the Chinese economy will suffer more than ours. Since the blowback to option A would have been totally foreseeable, then it seems like intention A is unlikely.

    For theory B, it’s possible, but seems like too costly of a way to push this forward. While some elites are profiting from the bailouts and will be predators that devour small businesses, a lot are taking a hit (albeit, they are suffering less than a blue collar worker). If the plan was to get us to go to war with China, why would we crash our economy, which would hamstring us from waging the most effective war we could against the Han menace?

    In short, I think Chinese incompetence lead to this plague being spread. Our evil ruling class is taking advantage of this situation, but they didn’t start it. I don’t see yet how this leads us to a war, but this could still be the first inning of a nine inning game.

  450. @CanSpeccy

    This idea is debunked by the Cambridge geneological study, which provides a family tree for Covid19, all branches having a common origin.

    Yeah, and the Warren Commission proved that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK.

    Does the Cambridge study really contradict what I wrote? No.

  451. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Are all these deep state plotters so dis functional their virus didn’t work in China and east Asia?

    After a bit over ten years in the higher levels of the US bureaucracy, I can attest that the upper levels are utterly incompetent, and have been selected entirely for their ability to hold their jobs. The little competence needed to keep routine things running in their respective areas of responsibility has been contracted out, and the bureau have lost their core competencies several decades ago. The utterly incompetent attempt to impeach Trump is actually typical of their usual level of performance.

    So while I do not comment on the existence of “deep state plotters” or on any biowarfare projects, I can say that, should such a project have existed, it would (like all Federal projects) have been organized and supervised by “dis functional” plotters.

  452. @Tsar Nicholas

    How do you then explain this massive spike in total daily deaths in regions of Italy affected by the coronavirus?

    https://voxeu.org/article/covid-19-italy-analysis-death-registry-data?qt-quicktabs_cepr_policy_research=0

    At its peak the total deaths showed a three fold increase over the same period in previous years. They sure aren’t dying in car accidents with the lockdown in force.

    • Replies: @Tsar Nicholas
    , @glib
  453. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    So why the historic underperformance of China? Serious question. A government with absolute power but staffed by a high-IQ bureaucracy that apparently used its Confucian ritual based government largely for self defeating elaborate scams does not sound capable of sustaining industrial society. The actual industries are just too dangerous to support such a bureaucracy, as Soviet and post WW II Chinese activity shows.
    Take a look at the “particulate matter” report on http://www.ventusky.com .
    Consider that primary production of PVC in the US was shut down decades back over the possibility of liver cancer, now takes place in China, and that a recent plant conversion to produce PVC in the US required extra-ordinary precautions to protect the company from lawsuits (and possibly the employees from PVC), precautions that the Chinese are unlikely to have taken.

    So the IQ threat sounds serious, but it isn’t clear that it actually is serious.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  454. rm says:

    BillGates’ W H O Officially denying Covrt-19 as a bioweapon,
    deployed by deepstate,
    Raises the latest bookie odds that it is both,
    to 9/1.

  455. @AnonFromTN

    The obvious thing is, we need to know a lot more about potentially harmful viruses and bacteria, so that next time we are not caught with our pants down. A lot more scientific research is required for that, and this means a lot more funding for biomedical science.

    This quote – which might as well be called as the “parakeet response” – is the standard rationale that is presented to justify conducting the kind of bio-weapons research that is widely acknowledged as being so dangerous, especially the “gain of function” enhancement engineering, which had even been outlawed in the US for a period of time.

    Researchers in these areas of endeavor are afraid of possibly losing their jobs if there were a concerted public effort to strictly ban this kind of research altogether, as there should be, or at least subject it to very strict transparency and oversight, if it were more widely known that the new virus affecting the world had been enhanced in a lab.

    Therefore, any professional biologist working in this arena has a tacit interest in asserting a natural viral origin, notwithstanding the already published facts, and thus to participate in a cover-up. So they are afraid to speak out, a phenomenon we have seen before with regard to the HIV-Hoax that the medical and pharmaceutical establishment went along with.

    Remember the common mantra you just saw above: “a lot more funding“. Translation: We want more money!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  456. UK says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Your fictional stats versus the UN’S HDI rankings with which China agrees?

  457. UK says:
    @glib

    Your methodology is impeccable. It will certainly suffice to handwave away the UN’s HDI figures with which China agrees…

  458. @Godfree Roberts

    Well, thanks for an interesting read though you didn’t even try to answer my question.

    I suspect that your guess is about right but I have just sent our host and a couple of contributors reason (I hope) to look into the need for sleep which was recently dealt with by Dr Michael Mosley in a TV program which was pretty inadequate by his standards. I hypothesize that need for sleep – so far as concerns cognitive functions – is normally distributed. Despite what we think we know about Ronald Reagan I would suppose that most successful politicians need to be able to function well on little sleep and it stands to reason that successful wartime generals would be short sleepers. It would be interesting to know too if there are multi millionaire plumbers and electricians who work 100 hours a week… And what about racial/ethnic differences? Ron Unz’s theorizing in the 80s about the Chinese peasantry might reasonably be extended to their need for sleep.

  459. JHB says:

    I think President Trump embarrassed Xi in trade negotiations as Trump’s administration was the first to push back as hard as it did. Add to that large protests in Wuhan and Hong Kong which threatened the government. Chinese warfare has always been about deception and asymmetrical attack. Cultivate a natural virus at Wuhan lab, “accidentally” let it loose, and you teach your own people (the protesters), and the US a hard lesson. Letting it hit their own people gives them deniability. The Chinese are fully responsible here. This is the first shot from China in a new type of war with the US. The US didn’t do this. The development that the US did this is pure propaganda.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Jiminy
  460. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for explaining, as the article omitted to for obvious reasons, that Lieber’s research had such a direct bearing to the coronavirus. Ethnic Chinese and their actual nationals are involved in cutting edge research in the US, plus the Chinese pay US scientists to come and set up labs in China. Sounds like technology transfer of a type that would not be permitted for one second if Russia was behind it to me. Lieber certainly ensured that the US did not have a technological edge over China in virus tech. Do you think that wise? A missile shield is not purely defensive but has a obvious offensive application. I have no sympathy for Lieber at all.

    It is now obvious why this UNZ article was coy about what bearing Lieber’s research had on the COVID-19 pathogen and epidemic. Pretending that China has not retaliated and calling it the Western deaths and disruption “blowback” is a way of avoiding the ire that would be directed at anyone appearing rather glad that China has foiled the evil plan of the conspiracy controlling Western policy. Lieber gave them the means to detect, contain and redirect. To believe that COVID-19 originated as a US bioweapon attack on China is to know beyond any shadow of a doubt that China has retaliated and the current deaths in the West are the deliberate intentional bio weapon counter strike work of China. The objective of China’s bioweapon attack on America is to prevent Trump being re elected so that China can continue to grow in economic power and technological expertise at the expense of the US.

    • Replies: @FB
  461. Would someone please tell me which test will absolutely, positively prove that you are infected with the virus called Sars-Cov-2 a/k/a COVID-19 a/k/a the Coronavirus ? Thank you.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  462. @vot tak

    Oh comrade, don’t be so hard on your dear leader.

  463. Tor597 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    You forgot that when white people came to the Americas they brought small poxn and other diseases and wiped out an entire race of people.

    Maybe China should give a couple of casinos to whites for reparations and call it even.

  464. @Mustapha Mond

    Is it really hurting China’s image in the world? It has boosted it, not hurt it, as far as I can see. It’s America’s that’s been hurt, isn’t it?

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @aandrews
    , @Mustapha Mond
  465. @Tor597

    “Why are all the Anglo countries running so many simulations on what actually happened but failing so spectacularly” because drills and predictive programming/social conditioning are a necessary part of any psyop and they are a part of it see, for example “How to create a fake pandemic”jamesfetzer.org
    merriam-webster.com : Corona – something suggesting a crown

  466. Half Back says:

    https://orientalreview.org/2020/04/22/covid-19-has-a-grandma-grandpa-and-great-grandpa-where-are-they/

    “It is inconceivable that Ambassador Zhang spoke without the knowledge of Beijing. Significantly, the Chinese envoy chose the Russian state news agency Tass for making some startling disclosures. According to the ambassador,

    Five top Chinese scientific organisations have collected the data 93 genome specimens of COVID-19 that have been published in a global database based on inputs from 12 countries on four different continents.
    The research has shown that the Covid-19’s earliest “ancestor” is a virus known as mv1, which subsequently evolved into haplotypes H13 and H38. (A haplotype is a group of genes within an organism that was inherited together from a single parent.)
    In turn, H13 and H38 evolved into a second-generation haplotype — H3 — which subsequently involved into H1 (Covid-19).
    That is to say, in plain terms, Covid-19’s “father” is H3; its “grandparents” are H13 and H38; and, its “great grandfather” is mv1.
    Now, although the virus that was discovered in the Wuhan seafood market (Covid-19) was of the H1 variety alright, only its “father” H3 has been spotted in Wuhan — and that too, NOT in the seafood market.
    Importantly, the Covid-19’s “grandparents” — H13 and H38 — have never been spotted in Wuhan.
    Meanwhile, there are tell-tale signs. Thus, Ambassador Zhang recounted:

    A married couple from Japan contracted Covid-19 while in Hawaii (where the US Pacific base is located) sometime between January 28 and February 3, although they had not visited China or had come into contact with any Chinese person. Notably, the husband had symptoms by February 3.
    The media reported that Covid-19 has first appeared in Lombardy in northern Italy as early as January 1.
    According to the renowned Italian medical specialist Giuseppe Remuzzi, the Covid-19 epidemic in Italy had begun spreading even before it started in China.
    The well-known American virologist Robert Redfield — currently the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (the leading national public health institute of the US and a federal agency) and the Administrator of the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (a a federal public health agency based in Atlanta, Georgia) — has speculated that the large number of flu deaths in the US could have in fact been caused by COVID-19, but the US did not test for it at that time. (An estimated 80,000 Americans died of flu and its complications last winter.)
    Shockingly enough, Italy wanted to trace the first infection case of Covid-19 by conducting an exhumation in the US of so-called flu victims, by the US has flatly refused permission.

    However, contemporary science and technology is well-equipped to trace the trail of Covid-19 and it is absolutely certain that “sooner or later, the day will come when everything that’s been concealed will be revealed.” (Ambassador Zhang)

    Interestingly, since the appearance of Ambassador Zhang’s interview with the Tass, President Trump has calibrated his previous allegation of Chinese complicity and mala fide intentions. Whereas Trump had pointedly threatened Beijing with retribution, he has since moderated his stance and said on Saturday at a media briefing at the White House:

    “You know, the question was asked, “Would you be angry at China?” Well, the answer might very well be a very resounding “yes,” but it depends: Was it a mistake that got out of control or was it done deliberately? Okay? That’s a big difference between those two. In either event, they should have let us go in. You know, we asked to go in very early, and they didn’t want us in. I think they were embarrassed. I think they knew it was something bad, and I think they were embarrassed.”

    Trump no longer alleges culpability on China’s part. It’s no longer an open and shut case, either. Presumably, it’s now negotiable. Trump spoke only two days after Ambassador Zhang’s interview appeared.

    Clearly, the Chinese diplomat hinted that the trail of Covid-19 can and will be scientifically traced. Trump will have a serious problem if it transpires that Covid-19’s grandma, grandpa and great grandpa are actually domiciled in the US.

    • Replies: @Inst
  467. Private lawsuits against China in the multi-trillion-dollar range have already been filed by rightwing activists and Republican senators Tom Cotton and Lindsey Graham have raised similar governmental demands.

    How much compensation should Iraq demand from the US for the over one million Iraqi deaths directly caused by the war based on lies? The war was arrogantly named Operation Iraqi Freedom (later — equally arrogantly for a country that was destroyed) changed to Operation New Dawn. Here there is zero speculative bullshit of cause and effect. Nothing compared to the extensive speculations on the nature, epidemiology and origins of SARS-CoV-2. Our country criminally invaded and destroyed another country, Iraq in a totally unprovoked manner. Period. The same idiots pressing for a multi-trillion dollar suit against China over Covid would be happily ensconced in the United States of Amnesia and plead total ignorance and innocence.

  468. Inst says:

    Extreme claims require extreme evidence. The thing with conspiracy theories is, what if they’re true? Then, well, more often than not, nothing happens, because you can’t do anything about it. I’d normally say that this is for the historians to find out, but you have to consider, the sheer heinousness of the crime (an attempted genocide? a massive biowarfare attack?) means that, if your accusations are true, the archives have probably been destroyed.

    The lab leaks, by the way, courtesy British genomicists, are highly improbable. The strains of Covid-19 floating around show that the archetypal versions of the virus spread are more seen in Guangzhou, not Wuhan itself, which is also counter-evidence for the Wuhan biowarfare attack claim.

    How the Chinese come out of this basically depends on the severity of the outbreak in the United States, and to a lesser extent, Europe. The Chinese have mostly locked themselves up almost completely, with Harbin recently under the hammer in an attempt to control coronavirus spread, so while it’s possible that a (follow-up) biowarfare attack could trigger chaos in China, it’s also quite likely that China has this under control. In contrast, in Europe and the United States, the coronavirus is not under control. The economic damage to services-based economies will be huge from the decline in manufacturing, and the Saudi-Russian hit on oil is crashing the American fracking sector.

    ===

    The biggest argument against a biowarfare hit is that SARS is quite controllable, because its R0 is low. COVID-19, in contrast, seems to have a massive R0, which means it has an uncontrolled spread, and more importantly, uncontrolled spread leads to uncontrolled mutation. SARS-COV-2 has been shown to attack T-Cells already, but not replicate within them, which indicates that there is a not infinitesimal possibility that SARS-COV-2 will mutate to something approximating respiratory AIDS. Moreover, while Remdesivir has shown strong effectiveness in controlling COVID-19 (if you trust Gilead’s leaks, and they’re rumored to be falsified), further spread implies further evolution which can render the “antidote” useless.

    ===

    The closest you’ll get to confirmation of your thesis is if, first, that your thesis is actually true, which I doubt, and second, if the US gets very badly hit by COVID-19, and someone involved in the biowarfare leakage has an attack of conscience and pulls a Snowden. Short of that, you can say what you want, but your claim is impossible to confirm.

  469. @Gleimhart Mantooso

    The words “limited hangout” also come to mind.

  470. denk says:
    @denk

    Who’r behind the Mh370 disappearance ?

    Another war game turned live ???

    April 1st, 2014 – Not An April Fool’s Day Joke – MH 370 – A Sinister Tragedy In the Fog of Coincidence? – Military Exercises “Cobra Gold” and “Cope Tiger”

    https://abeldanger.blogspot.com/2014/04/april-1st-2014-not-april-fools-day-joke.html

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Wizard of Oz
  471. @Aleksander

    And that vaccine does not even have to work. But it will accomplish the desired end.

  472. “but they are now found in the respectable pages of my morning New York Times and Wall Street Journal.”

    Sorry Ron, but I stopped reading at this point.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  473. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @HolyRoller

    Might the article be “Was Coronavirus a Biowarfare Attack Against China?” by OldMicrobiologist, published here at TUR on March 13?

    I used to daily read the Rockwell site, too, but not for at least a year. Too doctrinaire and relatively insubstantial. It was also apparent that a primary objective was to monetize the traffic, which might explain what you have reported.

  474. Seraphim says:
    @PeterMX

    Boris Johnson “might” be an idiot? The answer is blowing in the winds he breaks.

  475. FB says: • Website
    @Astuteobservor II

    You’re assuming ‘Blizzard of Shnozz’ is a ‘normie’…

    You’ll find out soon enough…LOL

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  476. John Day says: • Website

    Thank you for the thoughtful presentation, with gentle lead-in of historical context.
    I am a Family Physician, who did physiology research in college and med school, and who looks at the alternative sites for more credible news, ZH, The Automatic Earth, UNZ and many more, taking everything with a dollop of salt and awaiting corroboration.
    Let me raise some issues about viral mutation. RNA viruses mutate rather freely compared to DNA viruses, This one has some corrective mechanisms to reduce that, but it still mutates an RNA building block molecule every 2 weeks or so. Some sites have been tracking this family of mutations over space and time, creating and publishing a viral family tree. China is interested in this.
    Here is an article in the South China Morning Post about the findings of a Chinese researcher, tracking this family of mutating virus, but first let me say that people always fear a virus mutating to More Virulent. If the virus starts at maximum virulence, it can only mutate to Less Virulent. An “arsonist” could be certain of this.
    Also, the oral polio vaccine is a “live attenuated virus”, grown in cell culture for thousands of generations, and selected for a mutated form that causes a very mild (usually) infection, but confers immunity. A state-actor seeding infection abroad could simultaneously seed the “vaccine virus” at home. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study
    Li took an unusual approach to investigate the virus mutation. She analysed the viral strains isolated from 11 randomly chosen Covid-19 patients from Hangzhou in the eastern province of Zhejiang, and then tested how efficiently they could infect and kill cells.
    The deadliest mutations in the Zhejiang patients had also been found in most patients across Europe, while the milder strains were the predominant varieties found in parts of the United States, such as Washington state, according to their paper.

    • Thanks: Half Back
  477. @Astuteobservor II

    “ normies like us”

    Well, that explains it.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  478. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Spanish flu came from a fort in Kansas where the first US troops came from that were sent to WW1.
    They had been vaccinated with a horse vaccine made by Rockerfeller in NYC, the genesis of the big pharm we know today. Named Spanish flu because the Spainiards were not fighting in WW1, and their journalists were allowed to print what was happening in their own country. US late in WW1 by three years, late arriving in WW2 by three years, 10 years of World wars and US in only 4 of f those years, after all the hard fighting was done!!! Just sayin!!

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  479. @Commentator Mike

    Off the top of my head I can’t explain it. Spikes which appear suddenly and then fall away are often the result of delayed data being processed, and you need to compare the deaths that week to other weeks in other years when matters have been equally bad, but no CV was around. February is still flu season.

    I can tell you however that it is being accepted that more of the excess deaths in the UK are due to factors other than Covid-1984.

    We are in the fifth week of lockdown in Britain and this means that the fruits of not treating people for other serious diseases – stroke, heart attacks, cancer, kidney infections, serious dental problems and so on – are now showing up in the death statistics.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  480. I knew an article like the one published by arstechnica.com would eventually come about.

    ‘CDC’s failed coronavirus tests were tainted with coronavirus, feds confirm’

    “Now, according to investigation results reported by The New York Times, federal officials confirm that sloppy laboratory practices at two of three CDC labs involved in the tests’ creation led to contamination of the tests and their uninterpretable results.”

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/cdcs-failed-coronavirus-tests-were-tainted-with-coronavirus-feds-confirm/

    Ron, has a great ability for analyzing data. However, if the numbers he used in making predictions are corrupted, Unz’s entire analysis of saved lives in California, for example, is simply incorrect. What other credentialed analysis is wrong? Why is anyone giving any sort of credibility to the CDC, WHO, Fauci, Gates, and many of the other talking heads that are implementing tyrannical policies for a Corporate-Government (a.k.a. Fascist) union?

    Corona’s resulting global lock down isn’t bio-warfare blow back. This is global social engineering for the benefit of the Oligarch class. Considering that everyone now, for the most part, is engaging in social distancing, the Kakistocracy knows now that they can manipulate world populations in any direction they desire.

  481. Inst says:
    @Half Back

    This is very good, but needs further validation. I’ve said in my general comment that what actually happened with SARS-COV-2 is likely to be for historians, but it might be possible that, as genomicists at Cambridge and other places work this out, we’ll get enough evidence to figure out exactly where this thing came from.

  482. @iSmellBagels

    As Mark Twain is reported to have said, if you don’t read newspapers you are uninformed and if you do read newspapers you are misinformed.

  483. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @JHB

    Uncle Sam loves you, too.

    If you’re neither offering nor addressing any discrete evidence, why should anyone else value your opinion?

  484. FB says: • Website
    @Sean

    As usual your IDIOCY tops every whacko on UNZ…

    Let’s rewind the tape…

    You were at first completely ignorant of Lieber’s work in nanofibers for detecting viruses…

    Then, after an anonymous commenter enlightened you…you have immediately zoomed to absurd Munchausian conclusions that China has just committed a bio warfare ‘counterstrike’…facilitated by Lieber’s ‘treachery’…

    And all this because he’s a Harvard scientist, who, like every scientist on earth, corresponds and works with fellow scientists of every nationality…?

    Your madness is really one of the most entertaining aspects of this website…please do not stop…LOL

    • Replies: @Sean
  485. @Franklin Ryckaert

    I’m not one for switching horses mid-stream. The point at hand is that Ron Unz is claiming that Asia did a commendable job in locking down when they did. Simultaneously he is claiming that the gaining of herd immunity is the wrong approach to this virus.
    The epidemiologist, Dr. Knut Wittkowski maintains that the lockdown in Asia happened after the populace was exposed to the virus and allowed to gain herd immunity.
    Dr. Wittkowski is not disproven because I do not know what all the Chinese government had in mind in locking down.

  486. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    I guess you’ve never heard of a T cell, Einstein…?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  487. @anon8383892

    Either this (what you are saying regarding the possibility of Covid19 being engineered) is bullshit, or the data we’ve been reading/watching from i.e. Cottrell, Webb, the Indian academics etc regarding the Covid19 genome are bullshit.

    I did not read these papers, but if they actually claim what you say they do, I won’t. Here is why.
    Virus is a machine that executes a coherent program of entering the cell, hijacking cellular machinery to reproduce its genome and make its proteins, packaging new viral particles, and releasing them (usually from bursting cell). Virus cannot afford to have anything not absolutely necessary for this, or miss anything that is necessary.

    HIV is a lentivirus, whereas the current one is a coronavirus. These types of viruses have very different life cycles (here is brief info on lenti https://www.researchgate.net/figure/General-life-cycle-of-retrovirus-lentivirus-The-lentivirus-life-cycle-is-schematically_fig2_236078603; here on corona: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4369385/)

    The life cycle of lentiviruses and coronaviruses are very different. So, making a genome hybrid between these kinds has about the same chance of producing something functional as connecting the parts of your dishwasher with parts of your car. Or, if you prefer a biological simile, as grafting a horse leg onto a squirrel.

  488. aandrews says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    You mean, by the way the morons in charge have criminally mishandled this mess?

  489. @Wizard of Oz

    “infects the immune [sic] cells”????

    Let me be clearer. We (and all mammals) have several types of cells whose only function is to mount and regulate the immune response. HIV virus infects the cells of your immune system, the very cells that are supposed to mount an immune response to the invader.

  490. @Been_there_done_that

    Remember the common mantra you just saw above: “a lot more funding“.

    Let me point out one simple thing: the funding for biowarfare comes from “defense” budget, whereas the funding for elucidation how our cells and bodies work, thereby finding ways to combat infections and other diseases, comes from NIH.

    I am 100% for banning all and any biowarfare research. One step in this direction: curbing bloated Pentagon funding. Many other things are needed, but this is a necessary step.

  491. @Hail

    Thanks- even if I can’t verify that it is Wittkowski himself writing.

  492. @Polymath

    The reports of early COVID outside China have not been confirmed, but come from researchers WITH REAL NAMES, so it WILL get figured out one way or the other and I’m holding my fire until then.

    They will never be confirmed, because the origins can never be revealed. To be considered are:
    – The Italian strain has been proven to be different from the Chinese strain.
    – Several Italian doctors reported treating a strange new pneumonia, as early as October, that could not be seen on normal chest X-Rays, only CT scans, where they were seen as “ground glass.
    – A Taiwanese virologist and pharmacologist claimed he wrote to the US in January, stating that the severe symptoms being reported of Covid-19, were the same as the symptoms related to “vaping”, which included “ground glass” in CT scans.
    – Many recent studies, including in Wuhan, have shown that “dying from” the virus is within the same limits as seasonal flu. Testing positive for exposure does not qualify as “dying from”.

    Of course the Chinese government is lying about this, just as every government on the planet is lying about this. The real purpose for the hysteria is mass surveillance which will lead to the police state wanted by Bill “Chip & Vax” Gates.

  493. @hs4691506

    the Chinese are proud that they’ll “eat everything under the sun”

    What makes you think Europeans didn’t?
    The remarkable underground Viking dig museum in York found that all sorts of small animals, like frogs and rodents, were being consumed.
    I am acquainted with a keen “black powder” hunter, who has long claimed “If it moves, you can eat it.” Our “Western” diet has altered, because in the big scheme of things, the vast majority have had easy access to food, which has allowed us to be picky.

  494. Che Guava says:

    Whie agreeing with much in this article, I suspect that almost no commenters recall or read the ‘Oldmicrobiolagist’ article.

    There was so much wrong with it, he even consistently mis-spelt the name of the place where he claimed to have worked.

    Many other, similar, problems in his screeds.

    This whole mania stems frnm a type of flu, no more deadly than many before.

    And no, i did not get the idea from Andre Anglin, I was stating it to friends, including co-workes, at least three weeks before his (wise) change of mind.

    It is all a hoax, an experiment in how far government control can go.

    Oppose it

    • Agree: Alden
  495. Sean says:
    @FB

    You were at first completely ignorant of Lieber’s work in nanofibers for detecting viruses…

    Wasn’t mentioned in the article, rather that berating me better ask the author why that detail was omitted when discussing the COVID-19 link to arrest of Lieber. Another commenter mentioned it so I took up the discussion.

    … you have immediately zoomed to absurd Munchausenian conclusions that China has just committed a bio warfare ‘counterstrike’

    If one starts from the assumption that the US may have created COVID-19 and used it to carry out a bioweapon attack on China, it is but a short step to thinking that the Chinese have retaliated.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  496. @9/11 Inside job

    “…which test will absolutely, positively prove that you are infected…

    NONE – You will have to take a few of them.

  497. Poco says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Compare ALL of the US with only Urban China?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  498. denk says:
    @denk

    And why’d those [[[bastards]]] murdered 200+ Chinese nationals for ???

    The same reason they murdered almost the entire ethnic Chinese community in Indon, the same reason they wiped out
    the entire family of Nepal’s King Birendra in 2000….
    These are part and parcel of their
    global Chinese Exclusion Act.

    ‘the mysterious disappearance in March of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, two thirds of whose passengers were Chinese citizens. The furious reaction in the Chinese media and cyberspace as well as the pressure from the Chinese government caught many Malaysians by surprise. As emotions ran high in China with netizens posting angry comments against Malaysia, certain groups taking to the streets, and some even calling for a boycott of all things Malaysian, many in Malaysia felt rattled. A former envoy described China’s reaction as revealing its “bullying tendency” and called for Putrajaya to “review its ties with China.”3 The backlash came at a time when the two countries were celebrating the fortieth anniversary of diplomatic ties. The abduction of a Chinese tourist in Semporna in Malaysia’s eastern state of Sabah by the Abu Sayyaf militants on April 2, as Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak lamented, heightened the tension. Reflecting frustration with the seemingly never-ending bad news, Najib said: “[T]here may be those who were attempting to drive a wedge between us and China.

    http://www.theasanforum.org/malaysia-china-relations-after-mh370-policy-change-or-business-as-usual/

    [[[sobs]]] aint content to decouple from China themselves, they wanna force thru a Global Chinese Exclusion Act.

    p.s.
    While I keep emphasizing my swearing are reserved for the FUKUS satanist ruling class and its apparatus , CIA/MI5/AXIO….there seem to be an inexhaustible supplies of assholes here pushing their evil
    projection onto the others.

    • Replies: @denk
  499. Jiminy says:
    @JHB

    I think the only trouble with the theory that China made this virus and released it, is how do you explain the CDC shutting down the US bio lab in August? What ever the reason, classified of course, it must have been pretty bad because a lot of rules were broken before hand and the bio- lab was never previously shut down. Old people’s homes full of pneumonia like illness, vaping deaths with pneumonia like illness starting from January 2019. And have a look at the massive spike in pneumonia like illness in the CDC flu and pneumonia graphs that ended in December 2018. As well, when did the CDC have it’s attention drawn to what was going on at the US bio- lab? In the year before as the flu toll grew? That little piece of information has never been released I believe. If, when all of this is over and the people of the US aren’t galvanised into action demanding public healthcare, respectable unemployment benefits, and a reshuffle of the taxation system, then I think the cause of the people is well and truly lost.

  500. @Beefcake the Mighty

    I know right. How dare I be normal, logical.

    Should strive to be stupid n crazy like you.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  501. @FB

    Well, non experts in virology. I am not even well read. Just whatever I could find for the last month or so.

  502. @AnonFromTN

    …making a genome hybrid between these kinds…

    There has been some confusion regarding the Indian paper from more than two months ago, hinting at an enhanced viral construct.

    They were referring to insertions of envelope glycoprotein GP-120, which has been widely referred to as “HIV delivery system“, which others have then simply transformed to “HIV“. But HIV has purportedly never been properly isolated.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  503. @FB

    To keep it short for one who is evidently barely literate, Yes I have known about T cells for about 35 years.

    What your undisciplined foolishness exposes is your failure to understand that “infecting immune cells” is at best ambiguous, at worst nonsense. I would still like the careless writer of the words I queried to clarify what he was trying to say.

    • Replies: @FB
  504. @Been_there_done_that

    Than it’s total BS. HIV uses CCR5 receptor (one of the GPCRs) for entry, whereas coronavirus uses a totally different cell surface proteins ACE2 and TMPRSS2 (see https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30229-4.pdf).

    BTW, HIV virus has been isolated and studied (over-studied, if you ask me, as HIV/AIDS studies are overfunded by NIH due to shrill advocacy of LGBT; in my book the resources for therapy-related research should be allocated based on the number of patients or deaths; cancer and heart disease in the US beat AIDS in both).

  505. Poco says:
    @MacOisdealbh

    There was a time when there were significant numbers of US citizens who weren’t easily whipped into a war frenzy and believed in neutrality and so came late to those big beautiful wars.

  506. JT says: • Website

    In case anyone is interested in my own work about the laboratory origin of Corona, which strikes me as germane to Ron’s article.

    https://tsarfat.wordpress.com/2020/04/20/covid-19-made-in-a-lab-ask-gilead-and-baric/

    • Thanks: utu, Robert Snefjella
  507. @denk

    Instead of wasting readers’ time with empty and careless ranting why not bring yourself up to date with what has been published about MH370 over the last 6 years?

  508. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks for the technical information…very helpful…

    If I may just add my own layman understanding, which other lay people here may find helpful…

    The way I understand it, viruses aren’t actually living organisms [unlike bacteria which are]…

    They lack any of the machinery of life…such as a way to take in and burn energy [metabolism]…expel waste, and replicate…

    This machinery of life is contained within every living cell, including single cell organisms of the most simple kind…

    The virus instead consists solely of chemicals, nucleic acids which make up proteins and genes…

    They can only become living if they enter a living cell and take over its machinery…

    Now there are over 100 different types of cells in the human body…some viruses like HIV target one type of cell because that’s what their chemical-genetic architecture is suitable for…

    Other viruses target different kinds of cells…

    It gets very complicated from here…due to the complex nature of organic chemistry…proteins etc and how they actually function…

    I think your previous observation that ‘everyone and his dog’ is today a virologist is right on the money…

    Bottom line is this…lay people must realize that they do not have the understanding to draw conclusions from what scientists and scientific literature APPEAR to be saying…they may be saying something completely different…

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Mefobills
    , @AnonFromTN
  509. glib says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The chances that many of us have been exposed is high. I hosted a visitor from Tokyo Feb. 21-28. I took him out to dinner four times and drove him around twice. The flight originated in China. I had a very mild sore throat after that that healed without any intervention. And now the data from Boston, LA and Santa Clara all point in the same direction, together with the European data wherever the general population has been sampled.

  510. @Tsar Nicholas

    From that data it looks like there were no such spikes during the flu season in previous years. At its height this year, it shows a three fold increase in total deaths over previous years. I agree that neglect of the those suffering from other illnesses due to stretched medical services and what Hempus calls the “negative placebo” caused by the panic could be contributing to total deaths. On the other hand deaths due to road and other outdoor accidents, and street crime would be down. I think a dramatic increase in deaths such as that shown deserves to be called a disaster and requires a state of emergency to deal with, but if the measures taken are causing the deaths, that’s then a disaster of another kind. Breaking up such data by cause of death would help resolve some of this, although they can always manipulate the deaths they ascribe to Covid-19. It would be interesting to see similar studies for affected areas in the UK, US, Spain, etc. But there’s no denying that people are dying in unusually large numbers in a short period of time, over and above anything seen in the recent past.

  511. @Astuteobservor II

    Nothing I didn’t know but still worth watching. An outstanding production: simple and precise as you say.

  512. Anon[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miro23

    Miro23,

    Ive noticed this myself. When Obama did something the elites’ didn’t like, the news & opinion shows would convene a panel of experts and gently, respectfully disagree with him by committee and hope that US policy would “evolve” in this or that direction or be more “fluid” and adaptable. They’d praise his leadership when they agreed with him. Since they usually disagree with Trump, its all insults, slanders, and criticism (both honest and dishonest) all the time. So many of the news and opinion shows have the same format: a telegenic moderator asking a panel of “experts”, who convieniently will have a male expert, a female expert, and a minority expert giving three different opinions as to why the elites’ preferred course of action is wisest, and the popular course of action with the people is potrayed a dumb and endangering the future. Praise is heaped on those in agreement, and scorn on those in oppisition. Bogus poll numbers, stereotyping-man-on-the-street-interviews, deceptively revealed statistics, and edited footage are also deployed. There are probably 10-15 news and analysis programs loosely like what Ive described. The directors, producers, and editors seemingly get various word phrases and angles in sync before going on air to opinion-shape a new subject.

  513. Finally we have something interesting. This chick (who looks fuckable, BTW) mentions the Ft Detrick closure (although mixed in with the stupid military games theory):

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-state-tv-host-covid-19-came-lab-leak-united-states

  514. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    ‘Barely literate’ would be you, Blizz Shnozz…

    And do you have an actual point to your inquiry, other than that one on top of your head…?

    Apparently not…you are just wasting everyone’s time here with your chronic retardation…

  515. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Than it’s total BS. HIV uses CCR5 receptor (one of the GPCRs) for entry, whereas coronavirus uses a totally different cell surface proteins ACE2 and TMPRSS2

    This is *exactly* why I explicitly avoided attempting any “scientific” analysis of the coronavirus in my article.

    There’s obviously a gigantic amount of total ignorance and deliberately dishonest propaganda floating around, and not having any personal expertise in microbiology let alone biowarfare, I just can’t separate the wheat from the chaff.

    My guess is that 99+% of the huge number of people quoting and promoting those various conflicting scientific studies are just as ignorant, but are simply unwilling to admit that reality…

    • Replies: @onebornfree
    , @utu
  516. glib says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Note that this is an all-cause mortality graph only for a fraction of Italy. The simplest explanation is that there is something there that favors the virus’ lethality. I have posted about this a few times. Causes could include the worst air pollution in Europe, the presence of many privately run nursing homes with sketchy practices, and local decisions about treatment that included massive use of respirators and antibiotics.

    A former classmate is a doctor there, I spoke to her Sunday, she says that effectively the virus spread mainly through the health care infrastructure, so the elderly were at a disadvantage. She reinforced my doubts about privately run nursing homes and also about antibiotics. But note that central and southern Italy were spared, with the same lockdown in place. The spike is real, but it should not be used to compare policies, since the same policy created two different outcomes.

    • Thanks: Beefcake the Mighty
  517. Sean says:
    @FB

    If the scientist has been arrested and it turns out the information the Chinese were paying him for concerned harmful infectious viruses, then the obvious conclusion is the Chinese have acquired from him and some of the other scientist they have been paying the means to identify a bioweapon attack using viruses for what it is, and retaliate in kind. Which they would do.

    So if the US attacked China the current epidemic is far more likely to be retaliation than ‘blowback’. The Chinese would have no option but to retaliate of of fear COVID-19 would be followed by a far nastier pathogen being used on China by the US.

  518. Mefobills says:
    @FB

    Bottom line is this…lay people must realize that they do not have the understanding to draw conclusions from what scientists and scientific literature APPEAR to be saying…they may be saying something completely different…

    Have you ever been in a room, where people of middling intelligence think they are the smartest person there? They cannot conceive that others may be more intelligent, more accomplished, more circumspect, etc. Their lower IQ precludes ability.

    It actually takes high IQ to realize that others may be higher IQ. (Yes, IQ doesn’t measure everything.)

    • Replies: @FB
  519. @MacOisdealbh

    A majority of those researching the 1918-1919 pandemic disagree with this theory. If you only want to read and accept one, not all that widely accepted theory and ignore all others that’s your privilege. as I said before, and far less dogmatically than you, the predominant theory currently seems to be that the H1N1 virus that caused the 1918-1019 , like all other H1N1 pandemic viruses, seems to have originated in China.

    • Agree: Sean
  520. denk says:
    @denk

    Who’r behind the palace massacre of KIng Birendra’s entire family in Nepal and why…..?

    Cuz the King was a Panda hugger.

    ‘ It is indicated in the report that Indian and American governments were afraid of leader Bhandari not only as an influential communist leader in South Asia, but also he could be an obstacle to isolation of China. In the latter period, Bhandari and the then King Birendra were coming together in the issue of national sovereignty, which was being a headache to Indian and American governments.

    https://nepal.fm/report-reveals-madan-bhandari-assassination-mystery/

    What has all this gotta to with Wuhan ?

    CV19 is their ultimate Global Chinese Exclusion Act.

    Mission accomplished.

  521. @interesting

    And then the arrests of those sounding the alarm inside China.

    Why don’t you bother with the facts? Li Wenliang was not arrested.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  522. @foolisholdman

    Why don’t you bother with the facts? Li Wenliang was not arrested.

    When did propaganda (and people spreading it) bother with facts? American propaganda contains no more than 5% facts, the other 95% being either lies or blatant lies.

  523. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    R.Unz: “There’s obviously a gigantic amount of total ignorance and deliberately dishonest propaganda floating around, and not having any personal expertise in microbiology let alone biowarfare, I just can’t separate the wheat from the chaff.My guess is that 99+% of the huge number of people quoting and promoting those various conflicting scientific studies are just as ignorant, but are simply unwilling to admit that reality”

    But nonetheless, shutdown entire economies ‘cos the Chinese did it and they’re, right Ron?

    ” The idea that political freedom can be preserved in the absence of economic free-
    dom, and vice versa, is an illusion. Political freedom is the corollary of economic freedom. It is no accident that the age of capitalism became also the age of government by the peopl e. If individuals are not free to buy and to sell on the market , they turn into virtual slaves dependent on the good graces of the omnipotent government, what ever the wording of the constitution may be.” Ludwig von Mises

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  524. Joe Webb says:
    @Miro23

    it predicts exactly what we see all over the planet.

    China , for example, is China…”Chinatown” per that movie of a few years ago.

    Africa…, etc. Time to get racially realistic.

    Thanks, Joe Webb

  525. @AnonFromTN

    …HIV virus has been isolated and studied…

    Please be specific and tell us who collected the prize to show proper isolation of HIV according to the Pasteur Institute guidelines, and when:

    http://www.sidasante.com/themes/isolement/award.htm

    From April 2002:

    Alex Russel is offering £10,000 Reward for the first person who can prove that HIV exists.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  526. @Seraphim

    Actually it should be Chi-coms bad, Americans worse.

    So sayeth the moral midget bereft of insight.

  527. I (obviously) do not know whether the COVID-19 crisis is the result of the intentional release of a bio-weapon. If it were to be determined that the Chinese government undertook such an action, then I would call for the overthrow of that government.

    And if an equivalent determination were to be made about the government of the USA, then I would regrettably have to recommend the same course of action be undertaken here.

  528. FB says: • Website
    @Mefobills

    Absolutely correct Meef…

    You will notice now the know-nothings swarming all over AnonfromTN, a professional scientist…evidently peeved because they cannot grasp the science and made some wrong conclusions from various nonsense they may have heard…

    Pretty unbelievable…

  529. @Alden

    The Haskell county Kansas flu later known as Spanish flu began in 1913. Haskell county is under one of the migratory bird routes from China. H1H1 came to San Diego from China.

    A little bird told you?

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Sean
  530. Spanky says:
    @CanSpeccy

    … Herd immunity is likely now widespread, so the thing should fizzle out soon… — CanSpeccy

    Are you absolutely sure that herd immunity is already widespread? Perhaps this bears some consideration:

    Last night, we reported on a new study out of China authored by the same scientist who first proposed Beijing’s lockdown plan that highlighted some troubling new discoveries that might complicate the quest for a vaccine. The researchers isolated and analyzed new mutant strains of the virus that appeared to be much more ‘aggressive’ (i.e. likely deadlier) than earlier strains. Furthermore, these deadlier strains were not only found to carry higher viral loads – making them much more infectious – but they were also found to have genetic similarities to strains isolated in New York and Europe, potentially explaining the strikingly high mortality rates.

    During the early days of the US response, Dr. Fauci and others insisted that there was “no evidence” of any significant mutations in the virus that might impede research into a possible vaccine. While that might have been true given the evidence at the time, clearly, it no longer is. — ZeroHedge

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/shocking-study-finds-coronavirus-mutations-are-much-deadlier-original

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/scientists-discover-alarming-coronavirus-mutation-could-render-vaccine-useless

    The most important question this raises, beyond that of finding an effective vaccine, is whether or not a person previously infected by one strain of Covid-19 is immune when exposed to a different strain…

    If this is accurate, although it’s not yet peer reviewed, you might want to reconsider the assumptions you sing endlessly like a mockingbird. But clearly, considering all your posts in the various Covid-19 threads here, you know more about this virus than every expert, worldwide, currently studying it as well as the doctors treating its victims.

    Cause of death as stated in a death certificate is often, and even usually, wrong, and during an epidemic caused by a virus that induces respiratory difficulty it is likely that virtually all deaths due to respiratory dysfunction will be attributed to the virus without confirmatory evidence. — CanSpeccy

    You made these assertions, now prove them. We expect actual proof, not some specious anecdotal bullshit that it might have happened once, somewhere, according to someone who knows someone else who heard about it from a friend…

    Furthermore, virtually all deaths of persons testing positive for covid19 will be attributed to the virus even though the deceased may have had multiple other diseases, any one of which could have been the cause of death. — CanSpeccy

    Again, prove it. Show us why your opinion is both accurate and irrefutable. Provide us with actual evidence which proves that innumerable doctors across the world and in the US are deliberately falsifying death certificates in order to inflate the number Covid-19 deaths.

    But as this epidemic is shaping up, it is likely that the estimated death toll will be comparable to that of the seasonal flu in a bad year. … — CanSpeccy

    Finally, the heart of the matter. Just for background, the flu season is generally considered to run from October to May, or about eight months. Flu deaths are estimated in a range — the term of art is, apparently, ILI or influenza like illnesses — actual deaths from the flu are not counted. The range estimates for the entire flu season (8 months) last year was 24,000 to 64,000 IIRC.

    As of today, April 22, the current death toll attributed to Covid-19 in the US is 46,123* which just happens to be in the middle of the flu season range estimates after less than two months… 46,123 in under 2 months.

    Now please explain why, exactly, you consider flu range estimates infallibly accurate as a yardstick but an actual count of deaths from Covid-19 so inaccurate it must be disregarded? Do you actually believe that all attending physicians treating Covid-19 cases and filling out death certificates are either incompetent or dishonest? That neither medical examiners nor pathologists can be trusted? That every medical professional involved in determining causes of death during this outbreak is in on this alleged conspiracy?

    Has the thought ever occurred that perhaps, just maybe, this new and unknown virus isn’t like the flu at all and might be far more dangerous than you assume? Perhaps you’d care to respond to the questions raised by these comments and concerns:

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/sweden-is-right-the-economy-should-be-left-open/#comment-3849953

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/young-covid-positive-redditors-describe-agony-symptoms-lasting-nearly-two-months-after

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3079831/coronavirus-can-survive-long-exposure-high-temperature-threat

    Now I don’t know much about this virus other than what I read and there are clearly conflicting points of view — as is normal when something unknown is discovered. But you express a certainty which can only be a result of:
    1) both technical expertise and an intimate knowledge of this virus (something no other expert in the world apparently has or is willing to publicly acknowledge); or
    2) the ignorance of a fool spouting uninformed opinions about a matter in which you are not qualified; or
    3) an attempt to push an agenda on behalf of…?

    One can only speculate which is accurate and why you so vehemently persist…

    * https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @glib
  531. Sean says:
    @foolisholdman

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

    Chinese labourers brought it from China

    Anyway, in 2002 SARS appeared in China, no one disputes that and the COVID-19 pathogen closely resembles SARS.

  532. @Alden

    Sooo, why did the American government sprinkle the virus around Wuhan when the China virus didn’t affect China and Asia but badly affected the USA and Europe? Are all these deep state plotters so dis functional their virus didn’t work in China and east Asia?

    Leaving aside all questions as to motivation and guilt, if any; it is clear why the Chinese were able to deal with the epidemic and the UK and USA were not. The Chinese think, with considerable justification, that they have been under biological attack, on and off since c.1950, and were therefore prepared with equipment, trained personnel, well-laid plans and competent organizers to respond to such an event. As soon as the central government learned of the outbreak they responded massively and to a very large extent the population understood the necessity of what was asked of them and cooperated. Those few that did not go along with the government’s plans voluntarily were forced to. By mobilizing stores of the necessary kit and arranging to hugely increase production of it overnight, by hospitalizing the very sick and isolating the less sick and quarantining their contacts, confining the healthy to their houses and organizing a huge number of medics and building extra hospitals for them to work in, arranging support and monitoring for the people in lockdown, after a short spell of initial chaos, the whole operation proceeded as planned. The reproduction processes of the virus were halted. The cost to the economy was huge, but much less, in terms of lives and money, than an uncontrolled epidemic such as we see in the UK or the USA would have been.

    The reason the response was so feeble in the UK and the USA is that though our governments have spent billions into research into bio-weapons, it is evident that they made almost no preparation for dealing with an attack. Presumably, they were confident that they would be the aggressors!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  533. @Been_there_done_that

    From April 2002:

    “Alex Russel is offering £10,000 Reward for the first person who can prove that HIV exists.“

    Last time I checked, it’s 2020 now. Go to PubMed (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) and search for HIV virus (returns 173,843 hits) or AIDS (returns 279,849 hits), go to the last page, and then scan up. You will find the answer to the question who purified HIV virus and how it was done a few hundred times. It was sequenced many times (which can only be done after purification). As to 18-year-old “prize”, I don’t know. Don’t care, either.

  534. lysias says:
    @Boomertechnocrat

    Senator Burr’s Intel Committee just issued a report affirming that Russia interfered in the 2016 election.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  535. glib says:
    @Spanky

    If the virus mutates often enough there is no vaccine (same as the flu, although this did not stop some parties from selling one and profiting from it). You (and me and everyone) are left trying to take care of our immune system. Do not underrate it, because it alone can defeat much bigger diseases than this glorified flu with high probability.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @CanSpeccy
  536. Miro23 says:
    @glib

    You (and me and everyone) are left trying to take care of our immune system. Do not underrate it, because it alone can defeat much bigger diseases than this glorified flu with high probability.

    Yes, I agree that a healthy immune system is v. much underrated – and it’s not too difficult to set up. It’s just the well know things like fixing minor infections (e.g. tooth decay), daily exercise (active 40 minutes ), fresh fruit (anti-oxidant), eating everything but less, little refined sugar.

    Also you’ll probably feel much better and lose weight + it works with all ages.

  537. Drew says:
    @Tor597

    It would appear that it elites are too clever by half. Buying assets for pennies on the dollar might get you a lot of stuff, but a country’s wealth is always its human capital. Turning people into debt slaves might be a fun sport for a short while, but in the end, degrading your human capital is impoverishing.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  538. If it is worth looking at early fringe viewpoints, either because they might be correct, or because they represent ideas propagated by larger actors, here is another: the Coronavirus was allegedly stolen from a Canadian lab by Chinese employees.

    https://greatgameindia.com/coronavirus-bioweapon/ (January 26th)
    https://greatgameindia.com/secret-history-of-coronavirus-bioweapon/

    The same Indian site has many other news items on Coronavirus.

    https://greatgameindia.com/fbi-report-chinese-agent-caught-with-deadly-viruses-in-luggage/
    (Chinese smuggling MERS/SARS into USA in November 2018)

  539. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @glib

    Prof John Ioannides, of Standford University, one of the smartest epidemiologists on the face of the planet, offers a good review of present knowledge of, and uncertainty about, the virus and rational responses to it:

    [MORE]

    Thanks, incidentally, to Anonymous 274 for the link.

    • Replies: @glib
  540. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Drew

    degrading your human capital is impoverishing

    It is certainly morally repugnant. But the globalist elite can surely see little capital value in most of humanity. Thus they would rather either ruthlessly exploit it or dispose of it altogether, rather than nurture it.

    The best that the mass of mankind can hope for, I suspect, is to be dispensed with in a humane way.

    Ideally, we need a humane eugenics program that will downsize the world population while giving everyone who seeks it some share in that downsized human posterity. In theory, that would not be difficult.

    In practical political terms it would likely be immensely difficult. Elites will naturally presume that only their right to representation in future generations matters. That is why eugenicists, who are mostly of the elite class, generally have such a bad reputation.

  541. glib says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Oh, I have seen this interview already. But the very definition of a vaccine is something that confers immunity for a long time. This is why the flu vaccine is such a scam. This being one of the flu viruses, very likely mutating seasonally, I really don’t expect a functioning vaccine now or in the future.

  542. anonymous[428] • Disclaimer says:

    Some muckrock homework for us, to sharpen up the questions:

    For weeks of October 1 through January 31:

    – FOIA CDC weekly briefings and raw input from:

    – ILINET Region X reports;

    – FOIA US WHO/NREVSS Collaborating Laboratories Summary including daily and weekly positive specimens by subtype;

    – FOIA the names of 2019 CDC assignees for the International Emerging Infections Program;

    – Process notes.

    This is typically FOUO at most. For anything classified or collateral, get interagency review distribution as part of the process notes.

    The focus here is the interval when US incidence data would have had to be suppressed in order to blame this on China. This includes the time of Helen Chu’s scope change proposal. In particular, raw data on untyped specimens is going to be very illuminating.

  543. @Morton's toes

    with google earth images analyzed to show the proliferation of concentration camps in Xinjiang for the retention of young male uyghurs.

    Just a reminder.
    Repeat after me:
    GE has nothing to do with US intelligence agencies!
    GE has nothing to do with US intelligence agencies!
    GE has nothing to do with US intelligence agencies!
    GE has nothing to do with US intelligence agencies!
    GE has nothing to do with US intelligence agencies!
    If you will repeat it enough times, you may begin to believe it is true.

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/20/googles-earth-how-the-tech-giant-is-helping-the-state-spy-on-us
    https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Google-has-lots-to-do-with-intelligence-3221500.php

  544. @mcohen

    Nah bullshit

    The best argument ever

    that you have no argument.

    By the way you are 15 years retarded.

    Whatever retarded means.

  545. @FB

    If you consider alive only things that produce their own energy and make their own proteins, viruses are not alive. They have no metabolism, use our cells’ energy and protein making machinery. However, our chromosomes do exactly that: use cellular energy and the proteins they are packed in (histones) are made by the cell. So, a virus is an itinerant selfish chromosome.

    Some say that viruses are the ultimate parasites: they have minimum equipment and use that of their hosts. In a way, it’s true. However, killing the host is the worst thing a parasite can do: that way it would destroy its own habitat. Usually parasites adjusted to the host are harmless, often even useful symbionts, like E. coli that lives in our gut. It gets its food and perfect temperature from us. To help its host (its natural habitat) thrive, it makes us quite a few vitamins and prevents bad bacteria from colonizing our gut.

    A parasite causes serious illness only when it colonizes a new host and therefore is not adjusted to it yet. That’s hardly a consolation to those who die of it (or with its help – the majority of coronavirus victims had other diseases, or were just fat – and that screws up pretty much everything in our body). But that’s how evolution works: harmful parasites undermine their own future, whereas useful symbionts thrive with their hosts.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Polemos
  546. @lysias

    Tell me what lies you propagate, and I tell you who you serve.

  547. Seraphim says:
    @Ghali

    Besides spreading anti-Chinese propaganda, a thing the ‘Whites’ are too eager to hear, it mounts compensation trials with the eye on looting trillions of dollars from China.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Anonymous
  548. @Ultrafart the Brave

    I refer to total number who have been infected. In the USA, there hasn’t been enough time for recovery or death. [email protected]

  549. Kapyong says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Unchanged at 95% and 85% for 20 years ?
    Unbelievable.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  550. @Seraphim

    If the US tries that, China would have no incentive to prop up the US $ and current financial system. If Chinese leadership decides to kill it, nothing can save it. This would hurt the US most: first, the US is the greatest beneficiary of $ position, second, Congress just decided to borrow a few trillions more. If the US defaults on its debt to China, there would be nobody stupid enough to lend it money.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  551. @onebornfree

    Perhaps the key to your getting beyond that von Mises generalisation is to consider whether the population is treating certain restrictions as exceptional and not permanently disrupting the rule. No problem surely when there is a pandemic.

    And for empirical proof just consider the wartime restrictions on buying and selling which, in the UK lasted well over six years. Despite the introduction or great expaansion of the welfare state economic freedom returned to the point where Margaret Thatcher could triumph.

  552. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    Madeleine Albright’s family was saved by Christian Serbia, she thanked Serbs by completely destroying them.

    Jews were given refuge by white Christian South Africa, they thanked South Africans by completely destroying them.

    Jews were welcomed by Christian America, they thanked Americans by…

    Somehow I doubt it would be hard to find other examples. Recent Russian history seems a good bet.

    Perhaps there is a lesson in all of this.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  553. I had never originally doubted those facts, but a year or two ago I happened to come across a short article by journalist Jay Matthews entitled “The Myth of Tiananmen” that completely upended that apparent reality.

    According to Matthews the infamous massacre had likely never happened, but was merely a media artifact produced by confused Western reporters and dishonest propaganda, a mistaken belief that had quickly become embedded in our standard media storyline, endlessly repeated by so many ignorant journalists that they all eventually believed it to be true.

    This may be correct; but the linked article by Jay Mathews adds an important detail to the story:

    The problem is this: as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square.

    A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully. Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances.

    The Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city, where, it should be added, a few soldiers were beaten or burned to death by angry workers.

    So hundreds of people were shot by Chinese soldiers in Beijing on June 4th 1989 – but mostly in a place about a mile away from Tiananmen Square. It is obviously important to get these details right, because calling it “the Tiananmen Square Massacre” opens the door to denial that a massacre happened at all. As Mathews puts it:

    Not only has the error made the American press’s frequent pleas for the truth about Tiananmen seem shallow, but it has allowed the bloody-minded regime responsible for the June 4 murders to divert attention from what happened. There was a massacre that morning. Journalists have to be precise about where it happened and who were its victims, or readers and viewers will never be able to understand what it meant.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @denk
    , @lulu
  554. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    “I explicitly avoided attempting any “scientific” analysis of the coronavirus in my article.” – Yes but somebody, who is not a part of the two disinformation campaigns conducted by the US and China should do it. It should be possible to express the genetic distance between this virus and known similar viruses in terms of probability that the needed sequence of mutations could occur naturally.

    Recently Luc Montagnier (2008 Nobel for the discovery of HIV) said that he does not care anymore because he is old (88 yo) so he will say what he really thinks and knows and stated that Covid-19 had HIV inserts (the same claim as in the Indian paper that was eventually shot down) and that he believed that Wuhan lab was working the HIV vaccine using coronaviruses which explains why the HIV inserts were there.

  555. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks…I would also add that in many, if not most cases, the virus infected patient dies from a secondary infection of bacteria…

    I’ve read that over 90 percent of Spanish flu deaths were actually from bacterial diseases like typhus, cholera etc…there was no penicillin back then…

    I think this is always a danger…often the doctor will tell you that if you have a sick child…

    And your immune system being depleted after fighting off the virus contributes to all this of course…

    I will also add that I’m getting a little irritated with the people who say this corona is just another flu…

    There are lots of indications that it’s much more ugly, at least in some cases…and it doesn’t have to be just old people, or those with other health problems…lots of young healthy people have met with a terrible end…

    I think it may have more to do with the size of the load you pick up…I hope we hear from our own ‘Scalpel’ here who’s an ER doc…

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  556. anon[172] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, James N. Kennett, Tiananmen was the visible tip of a big-ass riot (or small traditional uprising) that spread through Beijing and beyond. I know people who got their house non-violently invade and ransacked a bit.

  557. There was something odd happening in the financial markets in the second half of 2019.

    The USD M3 money supply was starting to increase rapidly, after 8 years of stable growth at approximately 5% per annum. Figure from http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/money-supply-charts below the fold. The sudden increase, even faster than in the asset bubble of 2006-7, may be linked to the purchase of Treasury Bonds by the US Federal Reserve. With the bailouts of the Coronavirus crisis, the growth of M3 has accelerated even more in 2020.

    A financial crisis of some kind was brewing in H2 2019, and whatever it was, it can now be blamed on Coronavirus. The coming economic crisis will be severe, and if the printing of money is excessive we will get hyperinflation.

    [MORE]

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
  558. Derer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “A permanent international court established to investigate, prosecute and try individuals accused of committing the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole.”,

    USA do not recognize this court for the Washington elected and non-elected gangsters would end up in that court instead of freely walking the streets. It is a medieval crime to send our young boys to die in Iraq or Libya for Halliburton contracts – and colluding dishonest media looks the other way.

    The article is right…there is no doubt that US military bombed Chinese embassy deliberately…there is no doubt US military gassed Syrians deliberately and bomb the airport…there is no doubt US military applied bio-warfare on China. Other countries do not do these things. This reckless behavior is getting out of control and leads to self destruction.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus, By-tor
  559. JT says: • Website

    What does everyone make of this strange “prediction” of the Coronavirus?


    There is a lot of kooky stuff that this supposed “Goldberg” says, but those aside, some of it this is right on.

    Makes no sense. Just random luck??

    • Replies: @utu
  560. JT says: • Website
    @utu

    And it’s precisely what I wrote about in my article.

    I didn’t write it with 100% certitude, so if someone has better arguments, make them.

    All the docs I cite are available online. Baric details what he did in both the 2015 article and subsequent ones.

    Unless someone can argue effectively that his 2015 Gilead and USGov sponsored work involving Wuhan and Harvard, was not a perfect precursor to current novel strain, it becomes patently obvious that the Chinese were attempting to replicate his experiments. The question is, why? What role did the United States and its researchers play in nudging Chinese research, if any?

  561. Anonymous[177] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    a thing the ‘Whites’ are too eager to hear

    No, moron. The white race is exposed to the highest levels of propaganda but it’s also least likely to “eagerly” buy it. Our trust in the MSM and establishment “authoritative” sources has never been lower.

    • Replies: @denk
  562. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @FB

    I will also add that I’m getting a little irritated with the people who say this corona is just another flu…

    Depends what that claim means. If it means Covid has a similar infection-specific mortality rate to the seasonal flu, then the claim may well be correct, as claimed by Professor John Ioannides of Stanford University, one of the world’s top epidemiologists. See the video behind the “More” button at #557, or here:

    Ioannides is among the few to conduct a population survey for serological evidence of covid infection. In his survey population (Santa Clara County, CA) the observed rate was between 51 and 85 times the rate of infection known to medical authorities. It was based on the frequency of serological positives to reported covid deaths that he inferred an infection-specific death rate of around 0.1%.

    But certainly Covid19 is a unique virus and will likely have many properties that distinguish it from the flu, some of which may be medically significant.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @FB
  563. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    This claim appears preposterous for several reasons. Coronaviruses are among the RNA viruses with the largest genome (about 30 thousand bases) that encodes an unusual (for a virus) number of proteins, about 30.

    The difficulties of dealing with large viruses like CoV were overcome in last 20 years. You are not up to date with literature which nevertheless does not prevent you form making forceful pronouncements. You sovoks like the adjective ‘preposterous’. I remember when Russian ambassador was asked about Moscow apartment explosions and whether FSB was involved. He feigned being gravely offended; it was for him preposterous that somebody could even suggest such accusations. Once a sovok always a sovok.

    Systematic Assembly of a Full-Length Infectious Clone of Human Coronavirus NL63
    https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/23/11948

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4727449/
    Coronaviruses (CoVs) infect humans and many animal species, and are associated with respiratory, enteric, hepatic, and central nervous system diseases. The large size of the CoV genome and the instability of some CoV replicase gene sequences during its propagation in bacteria, represent serious obstacles for the development of reverse genetic systems similar to those used for smaller positive sense RNA viruses. To overcome these limitations, several alternatives to more conventional plasmid-based approaches have been established in the last 13 years. In this report, we briefly review and discuss the different reverse genetic systems developed for CoVs, paying special attention to the severe acute respiratory syndrome CoV (SARS-CoV).

    And about the famous 2015 paper by Ralph S Baric (U. of North Carolina) and Zhengli-Li Shi (Wuhan)
    Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate
    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lab-made-coronavirus-triggers-debate-34502
    “The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.”

    • Troll: FB
  564. utu says:
    @JT

    https://threader.app/thread/1139949747316432897
    “I cannot find any evidence that a “David Elias Goldberg” or “David E. Goldberg” age 59 existed in New York let alone died.”

    • Replies: @JT
  565. @foolisholdman

    I would argue because the Chinese govt acted so fast n decisively. They chose short term pain over long, worst pain.

    If USA did the same starting March, this virus would already be over in the USA too. Everything would be back to normal already.

  566. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Another US population survey for Covid antibodies, this in Los Angeles County, reveals an infection rate about forty times that previously known to medical authorities, thus confirming that the infection-specific mortality rate is quite low, and comparable to that of the seasonal flu — with many of those infected not being aware of the fact. .

  567. FB says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Right now I don’t think any one person has the whole answer…

    But the thing that stands out for me is how nasty this bugger is on your lungs…

    Again I suspect that if you get a big load of this thing you may be headed for a ventilator…and when you have too many people all at once that need a ventilator, some ugly decisions have to be made…

    I would feel very sorry both for the doctors and the families, to say nothing of the patient…

    We’ve been in at least a partial lock down for a few weeks now…and what would things be like if that hadn’t happened…?

    I’m not a doctor, but I’ve been scanning the news for particularly front line stories…doctors are working heroically in many places…and they sure don’t seem as sanguine as a lot of the commenters here…

    I suspect Scalpel hasn’t been posting here because he’s probably working round the clock…last time he checked in he didn’t seem too carefree…in fact he seemed to hint he’d seen some pretty nasty stuff…

    • Replies: @glib
    , @CanSpeccy
  568. @utu

    I am not saying that it’s impossible, I am saying that it is very difficult. Anyone willing to weaponize a virus would choose a simpler task and a much deadlier virus. It is possible to drive a nail into a wall with your TV, but it is hard, as well as stupid.

    As an aside, someone on this site said that you are a German. I know quite a few Germans, and they range from reasonably intelligent to very smart. So, if you are a German, you are a disgrace of your nation.

    • LOL: Biff
  569. Ryan2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “Once you realize that the alt-right is a limited hangout, it makes perfect sense.”

    What do you mean by that?

  570. The WHO wouldn’t have faked the Coronavirus pandemic would it ? Based on its past behavior WHO could have, see :” Why the WHO faked a pandemic “forbes.com, Forbes Magazine,February 5,2010 :
    “The Parliamentary human rights watchdog “PACE” is publicly investigating WHO’s motives in declaring a[swine flu] pandemic.Indeed,the Chairman of its influential health committee,epidemiologist Wolfgang Wodarg has declared that the FALSE PANDEMIC is one of the greatest medical scandals of the Century.”

  571. @Anonymous

    So why the historic underperformance of China?

    In which area is China an underperformer? The stats show it leading the US in pretty much every measurable dimension, from human rights to science and technology.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  572. Ryan2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “Once you realize that the alt-right is a limited hangout, it makes perfect sense”

    What do you mean by that?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  573. vot tak says:

    Pandemic Payout: Survey Finds 84% of Americans Want Another COVID-19 Stimulus Check

    https://sputniknews.com/us/202004231079060749-pandemic-payout-survey-finds-84-of-americans-want-another-covid-19-stimulus-check/

    How about those of us who have not received the congressionally mandated payment? Who when they query the irs about this lack of payment, get the usual irs finger in response? As soon as I saw this stimulus payment was going to be handled by that organised crime outfit, I realized the sodding thing was another fraud.

  574. @Poco

    Urban China as a market is comparable to all of us.

    Rural China is changing rapidly and was never useful for comparisons.

    • Replies: @Poco
  575. @Kapyong

    Those figures are, I suspect, close to practical maxima.

    • Replies: @Kapyong
  576. Peterike says:
    @anon

    “ His [Trump’s] approval ratings according to 538 have been stuck in the low to mid 40s for essentially his entire presidency. He needs a consistent approval rating above 47% or so to ensure a high chance of reelection.”

    Nah. If “they” wanted Trump to win it would be a hell of a lot simpler to just tell the controlled media to knock of the 24×7 Trump hate fest. With an honest media Trump’s approval rating would be about 80%.

  577. glib says:
    @FB

    that is the difference, the nasty symptoms. But this is not the first time that a flu (or a cold, since the coronavirus is part of both the cold group and the flu group) is rich in pneumonia cases. Maybe five years ago it was like that, and one of my brothers spent over two months fighting pneumonia.

    It is the flu in terms of mortality and in terms of the demographics it kills. It does have somewhat uncommon but not unprecedented symptoms for the flu. The interstitial pneumonia and the lack of transmission through kids are new though.

  578. @Ryan2

    I mean that the alt-right is/was an outlet for certain socio-political pressures that could undermine the regime if there wasn’t a safety valve for them. In other words, controlled opposition, but much more subversive than cucks like Limbaugh, Fox News, etc. You could discuss all kinds of off-limit subjects: race, feminism, Jews, historical revisionism, etc., but you could only go so far in connecting the dots. Once that purpose had been served, the movement quickly turned into a slavish mouthpiece for the very same regime it previously demonized. That’s what’s happened here under Corona. You have a bunch of lame idiots who think that kowtowing to the capitalists in the CCP is a way of resisting the US empire, but they’re of course having exactly the opposite effect.

    • Replies: @Ryan2
  579. Poco says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Then it is not a comparison of two countries. Pure cherry-picking to attain a result you like. If one were inclined to agree with you about China but wanted a convincing argument, this would discourage them to do so.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  580. TT says:
    @utu

    Below is my previous response to Prof Kunt very flawed Herd Immunity theory, surprisingly from someone with 30yrs of epidemiologist experience in US.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/mask/#comment-3828377

    [MORE]

    On Professor Knut Wittkowski numbers, he is totally contradicting himself and what all other epidemiologists have modelled on.

    Prof Knut is of opinion that if nothing been done, US total deaths will only in range of 10~15k based on 1% deaths, with epidemic dies off within 4wks providing herd immunity. The mild or no symptoms cases will be approx 70% requiring no hospitalization.

    Taking most typical global profile assume on the best ends:

    80% of 350M infected = 280M

    85% of 280M infected with no or mild symptoms= 238M

    12% hospitalized= 33.6M in 4wks,
    This will simply overwhelm all US hospitals with only 700k beds. How many will deteriorated to ICU & die due to lack of medical care? 33M deaths with no bed!!!

    3% ICU = 8.4M in 4wks,
    …These will see a spike of death rate like Wuhan or Italy initial outbreak with 4%~10% (11.2M~28M).

    Even based on Prof Knut 1% death rate of 280M infected = 2.8M
    This is still far from his 10k deaths and unacceptable high!!!

    Even taking typical 0.1% flu death rate, that will be 280k, which is what US gov is trying to project as ideal case, with 100k deaths at best if the lockdown and social distancing work excellently to flatten the curve, thus avoid overwhelming hospitals.

    So following Prof Knut advice without any action, US will see something like 33.6M hospitalizations, 8.4M ICU, 2.8M~28M deaths all within 4wks!!!

    And this is EXACTLY what WHO, China and the whole world epidemiologists are trying to warn everyone from very beginning, TAKE ACTION IMMEDIATELY!!!

    IMO, Professor Knut Wittkowski view is over simplistic and fundamentally flawed. He is talking based on an unlimited medical system that can handle 33M hospitalizations & 8M ICU cases all within 4wks.

    • Replies: @utu
  581. Karma says:

    For many years the USA has been the #1 obstacle to world peace with it’s shameful permanent war strategy and unrivaled dedication to dirty tricks. They talk nice publicly but poke our neighbors who refuse to bow down to them in the eye when others aren’t looking. U$A’s simple, barbaric national security tactic: enemie$ are nece$$ary.

    The rest of the world has been waiting for decades for our nation to quit behaving like a gang of very spoiled & violent teenagers on steroids & pot. Any building or system built on a faulty/corrupt foundation is destined to fall. One of the wonderful things about impending the total collapse of our economic system: It’s the only viable way to quickly remove the ruling elite from power.

    We can/must learn from our mistakes, as well as from other nations. High integrity new generation politicians are waiting in the wings, ready to rebuild everything. Fear not. All will well.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  582. I agree. I still somewhat disagree with you using “incompetent” alone to describe our overlords. They are, to a certain degree, certainly compared with other leaders of the world. I think our rulers mostly suffer from corruption and greed. They’re very competent when it comes to enriching themselves and their owners, very competent when it comes to screwing over ordinary Americans at every opportunity.

    Some other motives:

    The US Is Preparing to Default on Debts Owed to China

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/the-us-is-preparing-to-default-on-debts-owed-to-china/?fbclid=IwAR2dMXl_8mfM6Zhe_PHDSesE92tv1BRbkn7Y8PiB1cH94DjOIoFhIyWMhiw

    COVID-19 Was a Trigger, But Capitalism Caused the Economic Crash

    https://truthout.org/articles/covid-19-was-a-trigger-but-capitalism-caused-the-economic-crash/

    The Global Economy Is a Time Bomb Waiting to Explode

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-global-economy-is-a-time-bomb-waiting-to-explode/

    Of course a deadly virus is an ingenious way of blaming the collapse and theft on something else, as well as keeping the angry slaves off the streets, coming for their scalps. Great way of distracting folks from the consolidation of power and wealth and the eventual austerity that they have already planned as well. The shock doctrine as they say.

    Should also mention that the socialist leaning Venezuela is outperforming their neoliberal neighbors in keeping the virus at bay.

    Venezuela Has the Lowest Contagion Rate in Latin America

    https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Venezuela-Has-the-Lowest-Contagion-Rate-in-Latin-America-20200414-0012.html

    same in this region of India:

    An often overlooked region of India is a beacon to the world for taking on the Coronavirus

    https://peoplesdispatch.org/2020/03/24/an-often-overlooked-region-of-india-is-a-beacon-to-the-world-for-taking-on-the-coronavirus/

    I think things are going to get real ugly soon. All the signs are pointing at this it seems. Not good!

  583. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @FB

    Right now I don’t think any one person has the whole answer…

    True. And the 0.1% infection-specific mortality estimate looks wrong based on serological surveys conducted thus far. So far as I am aware, only three such surveys in the US have been reported: two in California (Santa Clara County and Lost Angeles County) and one somewhere in the NE, I forget where. In all cases, if I recollect rightly, about 4% of the population had Covid19 antibodies. So if 4% were the rate nationally, it would mean around 13 million infections, but with around 183,000 deaths already reported in the US, that would yield an infection-specific mortality rate of 0.7%, which is much higher than that for the seasonal flu.

    To resolve this we need, first, more survey data, especially for New York and other hard hit places, and evidence to justify confidence in the serological tests which are prone to both positive and negative false readings. Certainly an above average rate of infection in NY is possible, given the racial mix, the crowding, the bad air, etc., but even with a 100% infection rate, the infection-specific mortality for NY City to date would be 0.13%.

    But if NYC’s infection rate is similar to that in Los Angeles County, then the infection-specific mortality would be around 2.5%, which would be truly scary. But even if the infection rate were 15% as found in a survey of one small town in Germany, to 50%, that would imply a mortality rate of between 0.5 and 0.26%, which would be very high for the flu, although perhaps it could be that high in bad year, with a new strain of flu, in a crowded city with bad air and a population prone to obesity.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @CanSpeccy
  584. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Karma

    For many years the USA has been the #1 obstacle to world peace with it’s shameful permanent war strategy and unrivaled dedication to dirty tricks.

    I think the only thing worse that the US imposing its permanent war strategy by means of unrivaled dirty tricks upon the rest of the world, is some other country doing the same thing.

    But pretty certainly some other country doing the same thing is what we would get.

    Remember, before the US Empire, there was the British empire, renowned for invading or bombing virtually every country on the face of the planet, and before the British Empire there was Napoleonic France rampaging across Europe, prior to which there were the Spanish and Portuguese empires doing horrible things in the Americas and the far east, and so on back to Babylon and Ur.

    So the question is, what’s your alternative to brute force in the organization of world affairs? International socialism, along the lines of the Soviet Union or the CCP? Or global governance, where we’d live under a bunch of oligarchs without the slightest concern for the people where you or I or anyone else happens to live? Are there other options?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  585. @utu

    “The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.”

    Luckily I had been aware of this important paper, from 2015, months ago; it helped shape my attitude on the question whether the virus had evolved naturally (“jumped”) from an animal (bat) or was enhanced, so I guess this gave me a “head-start” over so many other commentators here, even though they may be more specialized in biological research.

    Below is the link to the journal article in which it appears back then. The co-author is the Chinese “Bat Woman”.

    https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787

    The following quote is worth repeating because it underscores the notion of unpredictable behavior of a released novel virus that has been subject to enhancement.

    Simon Wain-Hobson, a virologist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, points out that the researchers have created a novel virus that “grows remarkably well” in human cells. “If the virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory,” he says.

    • Thanks: utu
  586. @AnonFromTN

    Chinese government can also, say, seize all the stock of Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent which are 60-70% foreign owned.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  587. Tempest says:

    It is a Chinese bio weapon attack on the West. They decided to deal with blow back by infecting part of their population first. They also used this part of the population to spread the virus. They prepared the attack long in advance by building a surveillance system that allowed them to deal with the spread within their own borders. This surveillance system appears to be totally over-the-top but makes perfect sense if it was intended to be used in the attack. They chose Wuhan because it is a large city with lots of travel to and from other countries. It is also an inland city where there are not quite as many Westerners as in Beijing and the coastal cities. That allowed the initial spread to occur without too many Westerners being around who could have sounded the alarm. The timing was set in between the military games and the Chinese New Year: The military games provided plausible deniability by being able to claim that foreign i.e. American participants brought the virus to Wuhan; the Chinese New Year ensured a large temporary influx of Chinese expatriates who got infected and then travelled back to spread the virus in the West. In Wuhan a giant New Year’s banquet occurred at a point when the outbreak had already been identified. It makes perfect sense if it was all on purpose.

    Some collateral damage to allies Iran and Russia was accepted. Both seem to able to deal with the outbreak.

    Sounds improbable? Not more improbable than nCoV being a Western bio weapon attack on China.

    A problem with the thesis put forward by Ron Unz is the false assumption that neocons or deep staters or whatever one may want to call them are somehow incompetent. On the contrary, they are very competent. They have shown that again and again by goading the US into a never-ending series of wars ever since the first Gulf war. The way the virus spreads and its virulence must have been known to any perpetrators. It’s inconceivable that blow back was not factored in.

  588. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    But in estimating mortality rates, uncertainty in the numerator is as important as uncertainty in the denominator, and reports of Covid19 mortality are likely highly approximate. Death certificates are often wrong and in one study were found to be wrong more often than not. During an epidemic, anything that looks like death by the epidemic disease agent is likely to be put down as death due to the epidemic disease agent even though the deceased may have been afflicted by multiple other serious diseases. Quite likely, therefore, the Covid19 fatality rate is overestimated.

    Also worth noting is that the death rate of those less than 65 years old is a small fraction of the rate for older people and likely comparable to the risk of death from driving to work. For that reason, it seems time to end the lock-down, while urging old people to stay in quarantine and providing them with home delivery of food, medicine and other essential supplies. This combined with regular Covid testing of care home staff and inmates would allow a return to work with almost certainly no spike, and possibly a reduction, in the death rate.

  589. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Tempest

    It is a Chinese bio weapon attack on the West. …Sounds improbable? Not more improbable than nCoV being a Western bio weapon attack on China.

    In the present absence of any real evidence either way, that’s a fair assessment.

  590. @Tempest

    Sounds improbable? Not more improbable than nCoV being a Western bio weapon attack on China.

    If one wants to entertain conjectures involving an intentional release of an enhanced virus, the scenario you described is arguably more probable than what was imagined by Ron Unz in his essay, which appears to me – to use his own words – so ludicrous as to defy rationality. However, in terms of plausibility, neither your nor his elaborations would have nearly the degree of credibility when compared to a scenario involving an accidental release from a lab, or in transit.

    The quote from a paper in Nature that I had highlighted just a few comments above (#604) indicates that a newly developed chimera virus would not be a suitable candidate for a release onto the population in a densely populated region because of the inherent unpredictability of its subsequent trajectory. As had already been expressed, there are alternative choices for launching bio-warfare attacks, whose specific characteristics and implications are better understood.

    From the perspective of game theory, China was in a position to exploit its situation, in which strong measures to curtail a viral outbreak with potentially severe consequences were called for, to essentially do nothing for at least two weeks in order to “export” their own problem to the rest of the world, using the excuse of basic incompetence as plausible deniability for bad intentions, as I described above (#80). And playing out this option is effectively what they did.

    By excluding a natural “jump” from animals to humans and an intentional release by either rogue or state actors from primary consideration, which is warranted by their respective low probabilities, it is easier to focus on the source. One needs to ask: Why would China build a level-4 biological lab in a major city, instead of in the desert; and given that it was built in a major city, why would researchers then have conducted such questionable research there, which was known to be risky?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anon
  591. Kapyong says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Those figures are, I suspect, fabricated propaganda.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  592. @James N. Kennett

    The Government never tried to hide the killings–which would have been impossible in any case, as many folk photographed the corpses the next day and, two weeks later, on July 19, Beijing Party Secretary Li Ximing[1] delivered the results of the enquiry, “More than 7,000 were wounded or injured and two hundred forty-one killed, including thirty-six students, ten soldiers and thirteen People’s Armed Police during a riot in Chang’An Road.”

    In an embassy cable[2] dated June 19 its authors make ‘attempts to set the record straight’ about the events of the night of June 3-4

    The PLA did not fire directly on students gathered around the Martyrs’ Monument in Tiananmen Square and many if not most of the deaths associated with the crackdown occurred on Changan Avenue and other streets surrounding the square, rather than on Tiananmen Square itself.

    A decade later, in 1998, President Clinton discussed the incident on national TV with President Jiang Zemin[3], “The drama of the meeting came in a remarkable 70-minute news conference, carried live on nationwide Chinese television, in which the two Presidents differed sharply on the nature of personal freedom, the role of the state and the meaning of the Tiananmen Square demonstrations that were violently suppressed by the Chinese Government in July 1989…Mr. Clinton flatly told the Chinese leader that his Government had been ‘wrong’ to use force to end the peaceful demonstrations of the spring of 1989 and that broad personal freedom and political expression were the price of admission to the world community of the twenty-first century. ‘For all of our agreements, we still disagree about the meaning of what happened then,’ Mr. Clinton said in his opening statement, referring to the violent crackdown on Tiananmen Square the night of July 3-4, 1989, that left hundreds of protesters dead.”

    Btw, Wang Yam, the student Vice-President who led the Chang’An riot, was immediately exfiltrated and given British citizenship. In 2006, he was tried and found guilty of bludgeoning an elderly man to death in order to rob him. The for the first time in modern British history the trial was held in camera. and the Crown Prosecutor banned all media coverage and speculation about the case. MI6, Britain’s intelligence agency, later admitted he was their agent.

    _______________________________________
    [1] Beijing turmoil – More than meets the eye. Che Muqi. Foreign language press, Beijing 1990, ISBN 0-8351-2459-2; 7-119-01305-X
    [1] Cable, From: U.S. Embassy Beijing, To: Department of State, Wash DC, What Happened on the Night of June 3/4? (June 22, 1989) https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB16/docs/doc32.pdf
    [3] CLINTON IN CHINA: THE OVERVIEW; Clinton and Jiang Debate Views Live on TV, Clashing on Rights. By JOHN M. BRODER. JUNE 28, 1998

    • Agree: denk
    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @denk
  593. @Poco

    For years I have warned my fellow countrymen about China’s rapid progress in areas–like science–where we should never have been challenged.

    Most scoffed, called me a communist or, like you, argued that the comparisons I was making were irrelevant. We were, and would always be, Number One and anyone who challenged that assumption was a fool or a knave.

    My point in comparing their urban masses with our general population I thought obvious: for 3,000 years they have had a deep divide between rural and urban populations, while we have never had, and Chinese city folk are the vanguard of the nation’s development.

    That their vanguard is the same size as out entire army and is now overtaking us should be a wakeup call, given that their urbanization is rising by six percent each year.

    I hope you find the comparison, below, legitimate.

    • Replies: @Poco
  594. @CanSpeccy

    Are the total number of deaths from all respiratory ailments up this year? No. That says it all.

  595. This just in:

    CNN host Chris Cuomo said he believes there will be revelations showing the novel coronavirus was spreading in the United States as early as October. by Anthony Leonardi | April 17, 2020

    While discussing his wife’s recent coronavirus diagnosis, the network host, who announced he tested positive for COVID-19 in a March 31 social media post, speculated that the virus may have begun spreading as early as fall 2019.

    CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta started by asking, “You and Cristina both have tested positive. You’re both having symptoms. So, maybe I’m missing something, but you guys can’t be together now? … But if you both have it, why can’t you interact now?”

    Cuomo then said officials don’t presently know if someone diagnosed and recovered from COVID-19 could become reinfected. “In the abundance of caution, I could get reinfected, so they want us to stay separated. We do have completely different symptoms, which is, again, part of the weirdness,” he said.

    New York subway train cutback helped spread coronavirus: MIT study
    However, the host speculated that the coronavirus may have been in the U.S. earlier than experts suggest.

    “The kids now anecdotally, Cristina believes, that at least two of them have had it in the last few months. Why? We don’t know, but atypically long-duration sinus, fever, lethargy. I think we’re going to learn that coronavirus has been in this country since, like, October, that there have been cases,” Cuomo said.

    “And as you guys both know, and I hear all the time from all over the country, how many people do you hear saying, ‘I think I had it, I had this and this, I lost my sense of smell and this and that, but I never got tested’? Those cases are, like, abounding all over the country,” he added.

    The novel coronavirus pandemic is believed to have originated in Wuhan, China, late last year. The World Health Organization’s investigative report in February concluded that “early cases identified in Wuhan are believed to have acquired infection from a zoonotic source as many reported visiting or working in the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market.”

    The first confirmed case of the coronavirus in the U.S. was reported in Washington state on Jan. 21.

    Reports this week said U.S. officials are increasingly considering the possibility that the outbreak began in a Wuhan laboratory and not in a market.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/chris-cuomo-predicts-evidence-will-show-coronavirus-was-spreading-in-us-since-october

    • Replies: @KA
  596. @CanSpeccy

    A Confucian just hierarchy (Daniel Bell’s phrase) will replace the current Roman hegemony. It’s already happening though our media won’t cover it. Even President Macron called China’s vision ‘much more attractive than America’s.”

    China will peacefully take the lead in everything by 2035–it’s already 70% there–by having an economy bigger than America’s and Europe’s combined and the most powerful military and and treating everyone fairly and generously, as it currently does.

    It has no desire to bully other countries and has never done so. Former President Hu Jintao emphasized that “mankind has only one earth to live on, and countries have only one world to share” and called for the building of a harmonious world of enduring peace and common prosperity by raising awareness about human beings sharing a community of common destiny. Hu envisioned a new type of more equitable and balanced global development partnership that would stick together in times of difficulty, both sharing rights and shouldering obligations, and boosting the common interests of mankind.

    His successor, Xi Jinping called for “a community of common destiny for mankind.” That’s where the world is heading.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  597. @Ghali

    43,000 is just the latest number pulled out of the nether regions of federal flunkies. For decades, the CDC has been issuing false totals of “flu deaths” by combining pneumonia deaths and flu deaths in the same category, in an effort to stimulate demand for flu vaccines.

    Now the numbers can simply be reassigned to the current viral boogerman and trumpeted as valid figures in the same fashion, and for a new purpose, though the old purpose of stimulating demand for a vaccine is still included in the final goal.

    There’s one stubborn fact to be considered: epidemics are not ended by vaccines. The vaccines are produced after the epidemic is over and are almost always worthless, producing injuries and infections that are as bad as, or worse than the diseases they are supposed to wipe out.

    Vaccines are not cures. At best, they are like ineffective new latches for barn doors that will still be left open after the livestock have wandered into a freeway traffic and have been hit by trucks.

    This isn’t a disagreement with the rest of your statement, it’s just a comment on the number of deaths brought up in the OP and challenged by your post.

  598. Polemos says:
    @glib

    What was the conference?

  599. Alfred says:
    @Tempest

    I must confess that this is a plausible scenario. The Chinese are a lot smarter than the Neocons. They do think long term.

    The Australians seem to be determined to do as much harm to themselves as possible – they have much lower IQ’s than 100 years ago.

    However, I really don’t know. 🙁

    SARS-CoV-2 Mortality Is Distorted

    Developed West is managing Covid-19 worse than poorer countries – France’s most well-known virologist

  600. @Hail

    Tiananmen Square student massacre was a hoax…as per Wikileaks, diplomatic cables and journalist accounts.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/tiananmen-square-the-failure-of-an-american-instigated-1989-color-revolution/5690061?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

    If you believe the official 9/11 report then nothing can convince.

  601. @Kapyong

    Go see for yourself.

    See if you can find one homeless person, let alone thousands of them living amongst endemic typhus, like you see in L.A.

    If you can wait until June, next year, you’ll see that every Chinese in the bottom 50% income bracket will own a home and have an income, plenty of food and clothes, better education than Americans, safe streets, health insurance, a pensions, and old age care. By then, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of American kids and live longer, healthier lives and there will be more drug addicts, suicides and executions, more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

    MAGA!

    • Replies: @FB
  602. denk says:
    @James N. Kennett

    Im lost for words, thirty years after the TAM HOAX, already debunked by multiple expose’, people still cling to the myth.

    Why dont you check the faq beforehand ? [1]

    Normally I’d highlight the relevant parts to save readers trouble, but I’ve been down this road too many times before, too knackered to go thru the process once more, you’d have to read thru the whole lot.

    Still, this is basically what happened…

    CIA/MI5 orchestrated a color rev.
    After weeks of patient negotiations failed to persuade the students to decamp, CCP sent in unarmed soldiers to disperse the crowd.
    Students eventually left peacefully .
    But agent provocateurs attacked, burned and lynched some of the armed troopers, CCP sent in armed soldiers to put down the rioters.
    CCP put the final casualties around 300, consisted of the rioters, soldiers and perhaps some people killed by stray bullets.

    FUKUS cried ‘massacre that kill thousands of unarmed students in TAM’ from the outset.

    Years later , after snippets of truths continued to trickle out, especially after the WIKI expose’, FUKUS had to admit there’s no ‘massacre of unarmed students’ in TAM,
    BUT they shifted the goal post to….’there’s a massacre of protesters in the surrounding alleys’.

    You can read the detail from the faq.
    But here’s a clue…
    CCP has been consistent from the outset, it admitted there was a bloody clash beyond TAM, bet rioters and troops , HARdly a massacre of unarmed protesters.
    Its the serial lying FUKUS [Iraq, Libya, Syria….just to name a few] who started with the blatant lie that ‘thousands of unarmed students massacred in TAM’, who later had to backtrack to ‘oops , my bad, no massacre in TAM, but there’s one in the alleys’. [sic]

    I’d leave you to figure out who’s the more reliable source.

    faq

    [1]

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/tiananmen-square-massacre-is-a-myth-all-were-remembering-are-british-lies/5386080

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/what-really-happened-in-tiananmen-square-25-years-ago/5385528

    https://www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/

    tips of an iceberg.

    I started with Gregory Clark cuz he’s the very first author to debunk the TAM myth, he’s ex Australian diplomat who also debunk another big lie perpetrated by FUKUS, THE
    so-called ‘Chinese invasion of India 1962’, together with the Brit journo Neville Maxwell.

  603. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    There needs to be a “raving lunatic” button for you.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  604. Sean says:
    @Tempest

    Mmm, some good points there, but in the final analysis I would have to rank it as more dubious than Surds Lonigan’s contention. While it may have reversed within a generation, for now China’s economic and technological growth is parasitic on America’s.

    It’s inconceivable that blow back was not factored in.

    There are a lot of Mormons in the CIA, but some appears to have taken that as code for ‘morons in the CIA’ and have no problem with a James Bond gadget world in which evil geniuses / secret services are a generation head in technology of what scientists like Lieber know about, yet run with less common sense than the town drunk of Toad Suck, Arkansas.

    The appearance of a new coronavirus has happened twice before (SARS and MERS) in the last 18 years. Both produced something akin to panic among scientists who realized the potential for a multiplicative threat go from causing fewer deaths that slipping in the bathtub to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_Day_(novel.

    The most inventive–and merciless–thing on the face of the earth is Mother Nature. It hits on apparently unworkable yet functioning solutions. The recombination of a bat and pangolin viruses that leading scientists believe produced SARS-CoV-2 are ones that computer models suggest would not work. Such a counter-intuitively efficient assemblage is a feature of evolutionary search rather than consciously directed design. Sure, the result looks more like MacGyver, and if there is one chance in a hundred it is enemy action that has to be the assumption, but enemies can be foreign or domestic so our host is maybe right to jump to that conclusion. The most likely thing of all is the virus is a particularly egregious product of Nature.

  605. Poco says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I wasn’t taking sides in the debate. I was pointing out that providing a graphic that compares one country to another countries urban population can cause people to disregard your viewpoint as cherry picking. The last graph you provided supports your contentions better.
    I agree that China is kicking US ass in various ways. Manufacturing, education, etc. I am well aware that China has a much larger population than the US and therefore has a larger population of competent and intelligent people. This isn’t helped by the US habit of dumbing down it’s citizens. Also keep in mind that while China has a larger number of smart people in absolute numbers, because of their vast population they may also have a larger population of stupid people than the entire population of the US in absolute numbers. This may present unforeseen problems to China in the future. China at least isn’t saddled with pc.

  606. denk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Wang Yam, the student Vice-President who led the Chang’An riot,…. MI6, Britain’s intelligence agency, later admitted he was their agent.

    Hmm,,…

    The [[[five liars]]] incessant hue and cry about ‘foreign interference’ reeks of the wolf that cries wolves !

  607. One can’t help but notice that star commenter Anon from TN is really hammering on the “they wouldn’t do it that way!” argument from Nature, demolished by Meryl Nass here,

    https://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/2020/04/why-are-some-of-us-top-scientists.html

    Elsewhere Nass points out that the authors are the usual suspects of BWC-illegal bioweapons research, playing dumb.

    It’s like some guy tells you, “Thane Eugene Cesar wouldn’t shoot RFK with a .38, because all real assassins like Sirhan Sirhan use .22s.” It’s boilerplate CIA doubletalk. The tell is the way AfromT tries to steer you into the premise that bioweapons can only be made by gene-splicing.

    The gestalt is the smoking gun: public US government actions. Pushing you into arguments about technical minutiae worked for CIA when they whacked JFK (magic bullet ballistics) and WTC (thermite/nanothermite/nananananananananabatman!thermite.) CIA tries to keep you from stepping back to see the mosaic.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  608. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Actually the US already has a far bigger prison population than the US, and has for a long time…

    Also more people executed if you count extrajudicial killings of civilians by police…which run at an astonishing 1,000 a year in the US…while being practically unheard of in China…

    But raw numbers don’t tell the story…police presence in China is almost unnoticeable…no ordinary Chinese person need worry about being pulled over for a traffic stop…whereas even grandmothers in the US have a real chance of being tased, or worse, in the US…

    The psychological effect has a very real impact on the quality of life…

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Biff
  609. Polemos says:
    @AnonFromTN

    However, killing the host is the worst thing a parasite can do: that way it would destroy its own habitat.

    🐜
    When a fungus marches an ant to the highest leaves it can reach then inflates the ant’s head cavity with its spores, is that the worst thing a fungus could do? Or is it the fungus is not a “parasite” but instead a better category or name suits?
    🍄

    Are the fungi also undermining their future doing this?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  610. Rurik says:

    The latest I’ve heard is that the virus (in all its genetically altered forms) was manufactured to work in conjunction with the 5G being rolled out, as a hybrid bio-digital weapon of control for the global elites.

    I haven’t the slightest idea if any of that is true or not.

    [MORE]

    Would the global elites want to have absolute and total control over everybody? That’s a no-brainer. But is the virus or 5G part of such a plan? I have no idea.

    I perused the comments, and checked out some of the later ones, just to get an idea, but what I suspect, is that at the end of the day…

    • No one yet knows for certain how the virus started

    • No one yet knows how dangerous or enduring the virus ultimately will be

    • That governments and malefactors (often overlapping) will use (or manufacture) the crisis for myriad schemes to enrich and empower themselves at everyone else’s expense, is I think obvious.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90494347/american-billionaires-have-gotten-280-billion-richer-since-the-start-of-the-covid-19-pandemic

    For me, the most significant fallout from the virus, is as an indicator of people’s relative willingness to be ordered around like dogs, and told they can’t play golf or paddleboard on the ocean.

    Here, Steve Cohen is advocating brining back slavery.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/493178-hard-times-in-america-renew-the-call-for-mandatory-national-service

    It seems a “young man on a beach during spring break who refused to stop partying during the COVID-19 outbreak was jaw-dropping for many people — ”

    But I sympathize with that young man, because there’s something that is monumentally, colossally obvious today, and that is that when the government or media are talking, (whether it’s about AIDs or WMD or ANYTHING), they’re lying.

    Every stinking thing they say is either an agenda-driven lie, or an agenda-driven half-truth. Always with an agenda, and always intended to benefit them, at the expense of everyone else.

    So why, pray tell me, should anyone, college kid or PhD or plumber., give a rat’s ass what the ((media)) is screeching about on any given day?

    Gulf of Tonkin… Lusitania… Iraqi incubators… WMD… Assad’s chemical attacks… Russia’s “aggression”…

    If they’re talking, they’re lying. And so it sort of boils down to waiting until you or someone you know actually catches the virus, in order to know what is actually going on. Can you believe hospitals when they get more money if the patient died of the ‘virus’?

    Can we believe the governors and other politicians?

    Can we believe the CDC or WHO or the deepstate experts, who also told us everyone was going to get AIDs?

    The more ‘information’ (agenda-driven lies) we have access to, (in this age of the Internet) the less we actually know.

    • Agree: Robert Snefjella
  611. Biff says:
    @FB

    The psychological effect has a very real impact on the quality of life…

    Yea, I was wondering why headed for the exits. Well, not really…;^)

  612. @AnonFromTN

    The genome consists of code which produces proteins. Whether those protein complexes are ‘living’ or not is hardly relevant here. What is alleged (by Cottrell, and some others who have mysteriously withdrawn their work; I don’t know if that indicates a dark conspiracy to silence the origin of the virus as bio-engineered, or whether I am a victim of mis-information) is that Covid-19 was implemented with a CRISPR device, allowing copy paste of a genetic sequence composition. Cottrell in particular claims it’s a composite of some previously allegedly engineered virii like SARS, and also HIV. This could have happened zoonotically only with vanishing probability. Something like 4 insertions from HIV.
    I didn’t say the HIV whole code was inserted — surely you recognize that.
    Also, surely, if you are technically savvy as you imply, you recognize that the life cycle between these different virii are irrelevant to the point I was raising, these are protein trascriptions. All virii need to attach to cell receptors to access the processing machinery, this is where the commonality is, and the proteins used have shared applicability.

    Overall your reply seems cleverly disingenuous, very skillful use of scientifically irrelevant obfuscation.

    I really don’t know, but based on the social cues I’m reading it’s looking a lot like some folks are pushing a program against this being recognized as an engineered virus. Much like the nano-thermite on 9/11. There was that one scientist from Utah who had all these interviews, they fired him, he must be dead by now I guessing. Disappeared. Anyways, in the case of 9/11 I have at least my own visual intuition to go on, fitting that with the mechanics as described of the nano-thermite material.

    With the virus I have much less, but I have to say, just my social intuition is the misinformation is coming from people pushing the line that this virus was certainly natural. I have to say I’ve been most disgusted with MoA and Saker on this — the level of dishonesty is revealing. I guess this is the time you find out your alt-media are just limited-hangouts as well.

    The most liberating times can be the dispelling of false-hope. We live in the time of Kali, or the Tribulations or some shit.

    “Assholes do vex me!!!”

    Retards, liars, trolls, faggots, psychopaths. Welcome to my world. Nice corona-chan.

    Yeah so anyways, the takeaway point is that the commonality between HIV and Corona is the need to attach to cell, yes? You know this, yes? So why you pretend not to? Shit like this is what makes me think it was bio-engineered. Mountains of this shit is my hard data. In addition to that is the credible testimony (not ever challenged) by e.g. Cottrell. This needs to be corroborated or challenged, but I’m guessing people don’t want to go out into the firing line on this if it’s a career ender.

  613. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    and Yet , the incredible ignorance and rabid sinophobia displayed here is a sight to behold.

    Besides, all of the anti Chinese agitprop comes out of the [[[five liars]]] propaganda outfits.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  614. Adûnâi says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    > “That was the classical “drill-before-the-false-flag”.”

    Wait, are you trying to say you believe in the “evil Gates is trying to murder Negro children” conspiracy? Really, Ryckaert? Event 201 is obviously innocent to any viewer with a modicum of erudition – disease is indeed one of the disasters that could befall our homosexual Christian civilization.

  615. Jaylonw says:

    Video showing WH workers saying they have all been vaccinated

  616. @AnonfromNHB

    I’ve always assumed that someone who can write also can read. You are proving me wrong. So, this post is only for the people who can read.

    I never said that you can’t weaponize a coronavirus. I said that because it is so large and hard to engineer, if you want to do it, you do it by selection from a huge variety that bats already have naturally.

    If you want to weaponize a virus by genetic engineering, you select a smaller and simpler variety (certainly not corona), preferably something that’s already quite deadly (say, encephalitis or Ebola).

    This reasoning is based on the assumption that people running bioweapons programs in the US have at least an average intelligence. I assumed this based on my observations in the last few years: while the US elites and politicians, egged on by AIPAC, demonstrate incredible levels of recklessness and stupidity, the military shows more sense. They refuse to engage Russia, China, and even Iran, correctly understanding that something like Grenada is the limit for “the most powerful military in the world”, anything more capable is likely to ruin the myth. Now, if the US bioweapons programs are run by morons, all bets are off.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  617. @Polemos

    The fungi infect a small fraction of ant colony, only non-breeding individuals. If it infected a large fraction, whose loss would endanger the colony, it would undermine its future. Existing fungi do not do that.

  618. @anon8383892

    First, the sequences of this virus (all three variants spread now in the world), as well as numerous sequences of HIV viruses, are publicly available, e.g., here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/

    Instead of listening to people having various axes to grind, you can use an online Fasta tool to compare these sequences and draw your conclusions from data, rather than from hearsay.

    As to the difference between “natural” and “unnatural”, see my response to AnonfromNHB above.

  619. Rurik says:
    @AnonFromTN

    If you want to weaponize a virus by genetic engineering, you select a smaller and simpler variety (certainly not corona), preferably something that’s already quite deadly

    but what if the intention isn’t to wipe out entire populations, but rather a virus just deadly enough to be used to panic the people, without actually killing them all off?

    A virus that can be used as a pretext for massive governmental power-grabs and looting of treasuries..

    In any case, would you agree that at this point, that this is where we’re at?

    • No one yet knows for certain how the virus started, of even if it was created, or appeared naturally

    • No one yet knows how dangerous or enduring the virus ultimately will be

  620. FB says: • Website
    @utu

    Incredible…

    You have been THE BIGGEST timewaster on this website…yipping incessantly like an insane Chihuahua…

    What the fuck do you know about microbiology…?

    Absolutely zilch, that’s what…

    But you’ve got the brass to jump on a guy who heads up a prominent lab, and is kind enough to give his time and come on here and answer all kinds of retarded questions and squawks…including you, the most asinine imbecile on this website…

    Why don’t you do everyone a favor and shut your fucking yap…?

    • Replies: @utu
  621. Anonymous[659] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    and Yet , the incredible ignorance and rabid sinophobia displayed here is a sight to behold.

    True, but Seraphim was suggesting that the white race is somehow more susceptible to thus kind of propaganda than others. In the real world, countless millions of whites like me are not buying this transparent anti-China narrative at all.

    Please don’t forget that the Internet is the biggest hearts-and-minds battlefield in human history. Many voices spreading “rabid sinophobia” here and elsewhere on the Net are outright paid shills – or even unpaid, Jewish hasbara volunteers.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Seraphim
  622. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Why would China build a level-4 biological lab in a major city, instead of in the desert

    Because it makes recruitment and logistics a hell of a lot easier. Because the director wants to send his kids to a good school. Because the party want to be able visit without flying via Urumqi.

    why would researchers then have conducted such questionable research there, which was known to be risky?

    Have you been to China? Have you done business with the Chinese? These guys are insane. They race ahead at break neck speed and then, when they make a mistake, they deny every thing and try to make up for lost time by moving forward at the same break neck speed that caused the problem in the first place.

    Have you looked at the causes of the Chernobyl meltdown? It was a whole string of small minded self-interested human errors made by people oblivious to or in denial of the potential consequences. It’s possible we might be looking at the same thing here.

    Innocent until proven guilty though!

  623. @Herald

    No. For this to be a Wuhan lab problem, someone from the lab would have had to take the lab designed virus to Southern China and release it in Southern China for the pandemic to start in Southern China. And likewise, it could not have been released at the military games in Wuhan if it originated in Southern China.

  624. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    But practically all of the sinophobes I encountered also swear at the Jews ?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  625. @utu

    So does it matter what Montagnier thinks if the virus originated in Southern China? Did someone travel with the virus 500 miles or a thousand miles to release it in Southern China?

  626. @CanSpeccy

    Here is the actual paper, which lists two reviewers, (perhaps not formal peer review):

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

    And an interview with the author:

  627. lulu says:
    @annamaria

    Your forgot to mention the shut-down of US Army’s premier biological laboratory in Fort Detrick, Maryland, in mid-July, 2019 and the mysterious breakout of pneumonia in two nursing homes in nearby county end of June and early July.

    Coincident or not?

    June 30, 2019, Respiratory illness outbreak at retirement home kills 2 and sickens dozens more in Virginia:

    The Fairfax County Health Department is investigating after 54 of the 263 residents at Greenspring Retirement Community, located in Springfield, became ill with respiratory symptoms, ranging from a cough to pneumonia, over the past 11 days.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/virginia-retirement-community-respiratory-illness-outbreak/index.html

    July 12, 2019, second Fairfax county retirement community suffers respiratory llness-outbreak.

    https://wjla.com/news/local/second-fairfax-co-retirement-community-suffers-respiratory-illness-outbreak

    July 15, 2019, US CDC sent a cease and desist letter to USAMRIID, and it did not return to operation till Nov. 2019: https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/politics_and_government/military/cdc-inspection-findings-reveal-more-about-usamriid-research-suspension/article_6d1d316e-4989-5307-924c-8608c25ef6f7.html

    Report from Independent: Research into deadly viruses and biological weapons at US army lab shut down over fears they could escape

    Fort Detrick researchers banned from working with anthrax, Ebola and smallpox until procedures improved. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virus-biological-us-army-weapons-fort-detrick-leak-ebola-anthrax-smallpox-ricin-a9042641.html

    Btw, Fort Detrick is the same place where the OldMicrobiologist, whose post “Was Coronavirus a Biowarfare Attack Against China” that mentioned by Mr. Unz in his article, used to work.

  628. @Jeremygg5

    Then we should get going getting spies to copy their advanced technology.

  629. @gmachine1729

    Yep, I suspect that the total value of foreign property in China far exceeds the sum total of the US debt to China and the value of Chinese property in the US and its vassals. So far Chinese government played by the rules, often even to its detriment. However, if the US blatantly violates the rules, Chinese government would bring the whole house of cards, known as world financial system, crashing down. That would hurt everyone, but the US would suffer many times more damage than China. Having my retirement funds invested mostly in dollar-denominated things, I do hope that the US financial elites are smart enough to avoid precipitating this. However, I won’t hold my breath. US actions in the last few years suggest that the US elites are hopelessly deranged, beyond salvage.

    • Replies: @d dan
  630. @Rurik

    but what if the intention isn’t to wipe out entire populations, but rather a virus just deadly enough to be used to panic the people, without actually killing them all off?

    Then it would be easier to just select from the huge variety (from 500 to ~5,000) of coronaviruses that exist in bats. That’s assuming that whoever runs the US biowarfare program has some brains, which is not certain.

    A virus that can be used as a pretext for massive governmental power-grabs and looting of treasuries..

    Now, I believe that is the key point. It does not matter whether they created epidemic intentionally or just used a natural event as a pretext. The “Patriot Act” (which is anything but) did not destroy all freedoms, so another pretext was needed to finish the job. BTW, that “Patriot Act” is blatantly unconstitutional, but was never challenged on these grounds. This exposes ACLU and others of their ilk as pure frauds.

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Rurik
    , @Jon Baptist
  631. Anonymous[659] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    Practically all? That’s both unlikely (Jews are instrumental in creating the current anti-China propaganda) and irrelevant to my point even if it were true.

    I can show you a similar graph showing how little the whites in the West trust their MSM establishment propaganda but that won’t help, will it? You’re just here to whine about White Oppression regardless.

    I don’t mind it, TBH. We’re all getting more racially intolerant and that’s a good thing.

  632. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    But if NYC’s infection rate is similar to that in Los Angeles County, then the infection-specific mortality would be around 2.5%, which would be truly scary. But even if the infection rate were 15% as found in a survey of one small town in Germany, to 50%, that would imply a mortality rate of between 0.5 and 0.26%, which would be very high for the flu, although perhaps it could be that high in bad year, with a new strain of flu, in a crowded city with bad air and a population prone to obesity.

    A population survey in NY City indicates an immunity rate of 21%, which implies an infection-specific death rate of around 0.38%.

    Deaths reported daily in New York are now falling, indicating development of significant herd immunity. Since hospitals are coping with current admissions and herd immunity is strongly developing, this seems time to end the lock-down, though it would seem advisable, initially, to release from the quarantine only those under 65, thus continuing to protect the elderly who are most at risk of death from the disease.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
    , @utu
    , @Ron Unz
  633. Bruno says:

    10 January : first death

    12 January : genome decoded

    23 January : 16 million people quarantined despite only 17 deaths

    So the celerity of response can be explain in this order :

    Laboratory accident > Wet market accident > enemy attack

    (it would be Crazy to attack when you have 300 military there, not very discreet).

    I guess your story goes into Trumps doubt more than the other way around .

    But The Harvard University professor (they are only 27 out of 1000 tenured faculty!) should have been leveraged by Trump. Liberals taking money from the relief fund and a techie California treasoning the country with China. It’s astonishing it’s not n1 news. That’s the weird fact of you story.

  634. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Maybe I misunderstand what you’re saying, but the assertion that

    BTW, that “Patriot Act” is blatantly unconstitutional, but was never challenged on these grounds.

    is incorrect. A two-minute online search will show that several such lawsuits were filed, although to far less effect than I and apparently you feel they should have been. (The Constitution has become an excuse for any 5 of 9 unelected rulers to do as they wish.)

  635. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Recently Luc Montagnier (2008 Nobel for the discovery of HIV) said that he does not care anymore because he is old (88 yo) so he will say what he really thinks and knows and stated that Covid-19 had HIV inserts (the same claim as in the Indian paper that was eventually shot down)

    Montagnier is 78 years old, not 88. He is, furthermore, something of what most scientists would consider a crackpot believer in homeopathy.

    In openness to far-out ideas, Montagnier is following in a long tradition among great scientists. Indeed, such openness is the prerequisite to making great discoveries. But being right about one great far-out idea is not proof against adherence to nutty ideas, especially in old age when deluded by a belief in one’s own greatness and afflicted by a decline in mental powers, great scientists may become open to very questionable or even nonsensical ideas.

    Hence the much derided later ideas of two-time Nobel prize winner, Linus Pauling, Newton’s strange obsession with Biblical research, and his alchemical studies, and dear old Fred Hoyle’s notion that the seasonal flu drifts in from outer space.

    One should, therefore, be aware that Montagnier may not be the most compelling authority on the origins of Covid19.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Godfree Roberts
    , @Alfred
  636. lulu says:
    @James N. Kennett

    If PLA had wanted to massacre the so-called demonstrators, how could it be that 6,000 soliders were injured vs 3,000 demonstrators and people standing-by injured?

    &has_verified=1 (warning: very graphic)

    (Note: any such videos trying to tell non-MSM conformed facts, youtube’d demand log-in to watch, while MSM propaganda videos are free to watch.)

    “Peaceful” students/demonstrators were killing soldiers alive

    and and later hung one of the burnt soldiers’ body under the crossover bridge

    : warning: very graphic)

    The fierce fighting took place in Muxidi, west end of Chang’an Avenue, where the demonstrators turned rioters started to shoot at the soldiers and standing-by people who were just watching and burn the army trucks. (Sounds like any colour revolution, right?) Once seeing their fellowmen shot to death, the soldiers began to shoot back. The death toll about 300 included lot of soldiers.

    At the late stage of 64, it was no more a students movement rather became colour revolution: CIA, Taiwan spy agencies and Hong Kong groups that were anti-CPC take-over in 1997 all jointed together to provide money, media coverage, passports and later on route to escape: Operation Yellowbirdhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird, which involved not only CIA but also MI6, French diplomats, etc.

    After Wikileak published US Beijing Embassy’s cables, which said clearly there was No Massacre on Tiananmen Square, some MSM started to admit the truth quietly to save some face:

    Telegraph: Wikileaks: no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square, cables claim

    Secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing have shown there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square when China put down student pro-democracy demonstrations 22 years ago. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html

    CBS, 20 years after relentless propaganda, admited: There Was No “Tiananmen Square Massacre“: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/

    Japan Times: Black info and media gullibility: creation of the Tiananmen myth: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2011/07/01/commentary/black-info-and-media-gullibility-creation-of-the-tiananmen-myth/#.XPqXabgazgE

    Now check out by yourself just how students leaving Tiananmen Square in early morning June 4th (taken by Spanish TV journalists): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwKx02ClIA8&feature=youtu.be

    Have a good look how the “iconic Tank Man” climbing the tank and how the “brutal” PLA trying to do with him: https://twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/1189038385278672896

    – True 89 video:

    Youtube and Twitter keep on deleting the precious truth-telling videos, so try to save these info if you want to keep some records.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @FB
    , @Ron Unz
  637. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Intelligent people should be able to figure out who’s the lying hypocrite, but most people aren’t shining stars in the intellectual stratosphere, and so politicians spewing their lies and amplified by the MSM talking heads loudly repeating and reinforcing those lies, will cause an awful lot of people to buy into the jingoism and xenophobic message making China the boogeyman for all their ills. Just like Iraq and 9/11.

    The evil elites know exactly what they’re doing, as we’ve been down this road before……

    • Agree: 9/11 Inside job
  638. @lulu

    Youtube and Twitter keep on deleting the precious truth-telling videos, so try to save these info if you want to keep some records.

    Tells you who Youtube and Twitter work for, doesn’t it?

    • Replies: @lulu
  639. Rurik says:
    @AnonFromTN

    just used a natural event as a pretext. The “Patriot Act” (which is anything but) did not destroy all freedoms, so another pretext was needed to finish the job.

    and a pretext for Total Police State government control that is necessary to keep us all ‘safe’.

    https://i0.wp.com/cnmnewz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/watch-berlin-police-forcefully-disperse-unsanctioned-protest-against-coronavirus-lockdown.jpg?fit=980%2C551&ssl=1

    For our own good, and the good of the elderly and the children.

    Who can be against that?

    I suspect this fell into their hands as the ultimate gift. Has anyone heard about Hong Kong lately?

    The big banks are gorging on trillions in secret deals.

    [MORE]

    Trump seems to be using it to sabre rattle at Venezuela and Iran, and state governments to crack down on people walking in a park or golfing or boating, or other ‘crimes’ that threaten to pull off the mask of the State ‘keeping us all ‘safe’.

    Men waterboarding on the ocean all by themselves are not a threat to the elderly or children. But they are a threat to petty government edicts that we’re all supposed to be cowed by.

    I was in a grocery store today, and (like Home Depot and others) they’ve roped off all exists and entrances for one way, and they have a goon standing there telling everyone to wait, until the goon arbitrarily tells them they can enter. It has nothing to do with the number of people in the store. It’s all about power and control. (like Palestinian check points) And they had new signs on all the isles telling the shoppers that they could only do down the isle in one direction. So if the coffee was two steps into the isle where you were standing, you had to go down the next isle, and then come back up the isle with the coffee, and then you were allowed to get it off the shelf. Even if you were the only one in the isle.

    It all reminded me of that Apple commercial about 1984, with the drones all shuffling along in lock step, and even wearing their masks!

  640. Bruno says:

    So governments who waited from 23 of January to 12 March to close their border multiplied by 50k each impact point.

    Spain had 18.

    Trump only waited one week . So it’s time 5. But his error was welcoming Americans comings back from Wuhan without quarantined . I remember hearing he didn’t wanted those Americans back but was advise otherwise.

    Trump had the perfect instinct.

    Governments who trusted WHO were too late the 12 March to close the borders except périphérical countries.

    Then the second best thing to do were mask but you had to distrust WHO.

    So most blame is on WHO.

  641. @AnonFromTN

    The “Patriot Act” (which is anything but) did not destroy all freedoms, so another pretext was needed to finish the job. BTW, that “Patriot Act” is blatantly unconstitutional, but was never challenged on these grounds. This exposes ACLU and others of their ilk as pure frauds.

    YES! If there was one single comment that needed to be saved, this would be it.

  642. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    Have you heard of Boston University BioLab which is located in the heart of the city? It is allowed to study anthrax, Ebola and the plague and other biosafetoy levels BSL-3 and BSL-4 research.

    https://www.bu.edu/neidl/2017/12/08/the-bu-biolab-will-work-with-the-most-dangerous-microbes-on-earth-finally/

    The BU Biolab Will Work With the Most Dangerous Microbes on Earth, Finally
    in featured, in the news, lab updates
    December 8th, 2017

    Original article from Boston Magazine by Spencer Buell. December 7th, 2017

    Sure, there’s plenty of good reason to be cautious about having a bevy of deadly pathogens in your backyard. And when it comes to Boston University’s plans to study the world’s most dangerous bugs in the South End—microbes like Ebola and the Marburg virus—Boston has been abundantly cautious. It’s been more than a decade now since the idea was first proposed, but now it looks like the necessary, if scary, work of the BU Biolab is finally cleared to begin.

  643. d dan says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “Yep, I suspect that the total value of foreign property in China far exceeds the sum total of the US debt to China and the value of Chinese property in the US and its vassals.”

    1. If US confiscates China assets, China can’t and won’t reciprocate against ALL US vassals. For example, China will not touch Japan or German investments, unless of course, the later also join in the piracy. So you can only compare US property in China vs China’s foreign reserve.

    2. Contrary to popular belief, US does not have that much properties in China. The so called “US investments” in China is an overly inflated balloon to boost Americans’ self-ego. For example, look at the 2017 foreign direct investment figures for China[1]. See how (un-)important is US investment to China?

    Hong Kong 72.1%
    Singapore 3.6%
    Virgin Islands 3.0%
    South Korea 2.8%
    Japan 2.4%
    USA 2.0%
    Cayman Islands 1.6%
    Netherlands 1.6%
    Taiwan 1.3%
    Germany 1.1%

    [1] https://santandertrade.com/en/portal/establish-overseas/china/foreign-investment

    3. Most US properties in China are owned by those multi-national corporations that Trump and the nationalists hate. As demonstrated by his behavior during the trade war, Trump does NOT care about the interests of US multi-national corporations. Like many nationalists, he thinks those companies are treasonous. So, China’s retaliation against those corporations is not much a deterrence to Trump.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  644. lulu says:
    @Hail

    Please check out my reply to the Western MSM manufactured “Tiananmen Massacre” at post nr. 657, which provides video of demonstrators/rioters killing soldiers, burning army trucks and CIA, MI6 & Co finer prints were all over the places, here is just an example of what they did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

    Remember the “Tank Hero Executed” printed on the front page of London Evening Standard by John Passmore, its Beijing journalist, quoting from “American intelligent sources” . Later, Mr. Passmore denies he had written this article:

    (ca 7:25-27)

    At 8:30 of the this video, Chai Ling , one of the so-called student leaders was crying and saying: “Tanks piled on the sleeping students (inside Tiananmen Square) turning them into meat patty “ , though she had already escaped Tiananmen at that time with CIA’s help. Such kind of boldface lies are being totally accepted by audience around the world, thanks to Western MSM propaganda

    Chai Ling, who used to be the darling of MSM and go to testimonies in front of Congress, Senate or other Western governments, told in another interview bluntly later on: “Sadly I couldn’t tell the students that all we want is blood. Only if the government starts killing, blood runs like river, then all Chinese will united. But how can you tell these to the students….. ”

    Then she complained about those who persuaded students to not become radicalised and leave Tiananmen peacefully.

    When asked if she’d stay inside Tiananmen Sqaure, she replied: “No, I want to live. …….”

    This is exact the same manuscript of Colour Revolution. Now majority of students who participated Tiananmen Movement and the later generation Chinese start to see that Tiananmen Movement was hijacked and turned into Colour Revolution.

    Now MSM has created a new hero for you to sonsume: Dr. Li Wenliang, the so-called “whistle blower”. So, you should believe him as a “proof” of CPC/China’s coverup of COV19.

    It is Doctor Zhang Jixian, a respiratory and intensive care specialist at Hubei Provincial Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine, who first reported a new type of about Pneumonia of Unknown Etiology (PUE) to Jianghan District CDC on Dec. 27th, 2019.

    Wuhan Municipal Health Commission and CDC took action on Dec. 29th, and issued internal notification to all hospital on Dec. 30th.

    Dr. Li Wenliang, an eye doctor, only at 17:43 and 18:42 of Dec. 30th after Wuhan health authorities had already been in action, posted two messages on his WeChat groups warning of 7 confirmed SARS (which is NOT) and asking NOT to leak out his inner circle. So much “whistle blowing”!

    Dr. Zhang Jixian has been highly praised and rewarded by Hubei Province and CPC to become National Model Worker (akin to national hero).

    Dr. Li Wenliang was NOT arrested but went on with his work till he unfortunately got infected by one his patients.

    • Agree: Jaylonw
  645. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    No, 88 yo.

    OK, Science Mag article got it wrong. But all the more reason to question his judgement, if we are to go by the logic of your own past remarks.

    • Replies: @utu
  646. FB says: • Website
    @lulu

    Thanks for that documentation…

    I must admit that I never considered the idea that the Tiananmen incident was the work of agents provocateur working for Washington… [although I did assume from the beginning that the ‘massacre’ was propaganda bullshit…]

    The paid agents story makes perfect sense…how many times have we seen that ploy…in every color revolution, from Belgrade, 2000…to Hong Kong 2020…?

    At the same time the western media whips up a propaganda fever among our feeble minded population…designed to demonize the target country…

    This kind of manipulation is targeted at US, the people…so why do we allow ourselves to be victimized again and again…?

    This is incredibly infuriating…they can get away with treating us like idiots because we are…

    And as for obvious shills like this ‘James Kennett’ on this website, who is trying to keep the charade going, and making monkeys of us here…we need to register to scumbags like this that we don’t appreciate his efforts…

  647. lulu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Twitter, FB and Youtube keeps on shadowbanning any videos that tell the facts that differ to those told by Western MSM. Apart deleting those non-conformed posts, such as the ones I post here, they also adopts some sneaking tactics, such as, limit the “likes” to these videos/posts, de-subscribe the subscriptions/followers of these pro-China accounts.

    Sometimes, they simply block and delete a lot of Chinese accounts in name of cleaning “bots”!

    Though I am used to get my posts deleted by the MSM, still it is astonishing to see how Twitter, FB and Youtube act just like Western MSM.

    The only good thing out of their control is that most young Chinese who come to Youtube/FB/Twitter to look for truth in a “free world with freedom of speech” get some rude shocks and start to defend CPC, though they may not be pro-CPC inside China, start to see Tiananmen Movement at the end turned into a Colour Revolution and are thankful CPC took the right action to put it down.

    CPC’s propaganda is so rudiment that it has to thank Twitter/FB/Youtube/MSM/gullible racists doing its work.

    Btw, it’s funny RT, just like DailyMail, also keeps on deleting my posts debunking so-called “whistle blower” Dr. Li Wenliang, another make-to-believe symbol by MSM.

    Dear Mr. Ron Unz, thank you very much to let me post here! Thoroughly enjoy reading your American Pravda series.

  648. KA says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Yes ,I heard him make this startling remark . It went unexplored and ignored . But slowly we are bring regaled and amused with more informations. It seems per.NYT ,the viruses were moving among city dwellers from CA to NY already in January .

    It is time to order autopsy on those unexplained pneumonia related deaths including the vaping related deaths.

  649. Incitatus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Your chart shows life expectancy at birth 68.7 yrs China vs. 68.5 yrs USA. Bogus:

    -US life expectancy at birth (2020) is 80.3 years (total), 78 years (male), 82.5 years (female);
    -China life expectancy at birth (2020) is 76.1 years (total), 74 years (male, 78.4 years (female);

    Your ‘annual disposable income’ chart is little better.

    -US GDP per capita (2017) is $59,800;
    -China GDP per capita (2017) is $16,700.

    Better luck next time.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @barr
  650. @FB

    …considered the idea that the Tiananmen incident was the work of agents provocateur working for Washington…

    I recall having followed developments during that time. Initially the authorities had experimented with a democracy wall, allowing people to paste or staple leaflets with political opinions onto a long wall. This was popular with students, intellectuals and dissidents; they became emboldened.

    The “movement”, such as it was, essentially began in the springtime of 1989 and consisted of a rag-tag group of students. An atmosphere of tension got started a few months earlier when some students in Nanjing got upset at Africans. I had read about an incident later, where Chinese guys in one city got very pissed off that African guys had been treated favorably when trying to get inside a discotheque. Petty violence ensued. (*)

    Students expressed their disgruntlement about stuff like that and other issues that bothered them, for instance the low quality of cafeteria food. Charismatic guys garnered attention. Other students felt an urge to openly express themselves critically, which had been a taboo before.

    This went on for days, so increasingly more people were attracted to see what was going on. Once they started to prominently feature the Goddess of Democracy, a paper mache sculpture modeled after the Statue of Liberty, it was rather obvious that leaders had become infiltrated.

    The movement leaders wanted to meet with an official but were rebuffed. Then they met but leaders escalated demands. The movement gained critical mass and officials began getting scared, eventually somebody at the top decided to put an end to it.

    (*) Not sure about the details, maybe the Africans behaved aggressively, maybe it was about jealousy and dick-size; it would be interesting to hear an account from somebody who was actually there. However, this particular incident came in the wake of the Nanjing anti-African protests a few months earlier, so there were still lingering tensions and animosity against Africans after that.

    Here is an account by Wikipedia about events that preceded this mass student movement.

    Nanjing anti-African protests

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_anti-African_protests

    On December 24, 1988 two male African students were entering their campus at Hohai University in Nanjing with two Chinese women. The occasion was a Christmas Eve party. A quarrel between one of the Africans and a Chinese security guard, who had suspected that the women the African students tried to bring into the campus were prostitutes and refused their entry, led to a brawl between the African and Chinese students on the campus which lasted till the morning, leaving 13 students injured.

    300 Chinese students, spurred by false rumors that a Chinese man had been killed by the Africans, broke into and set about destroying the Africans’ dormitories, shouting slogans. Part of the destruction involved setting fire to the Africans’ dormitory and locking them in. The President of the University had to order the fire department to take action.

    • Replies: @d dan
  651. lulu says:
    @FB

    You know it took me at least decades to finally see through the fog of dis/misinformation/lies to realise what happened inside Tiananmen actually had turned into Colour Revolution, esp. after watching what happened in Ukraine and witnessing what’s going on in Hong Kong.

    Media can kill!

    By spreading dis/misinformation/lies to world viewers, NYT, WaPo, BBC, CNN & Co set the narratives about any events and shape our world view and perception about certain country/race/ideology to to advance ruling class’ interests.

    The propaganda shills aka disinformation cyber soldiers are coming here to continue MSM’s job by regurgitating the same dis/misinformation/lies to pull the wool over our eyes. Don’t waste time with them.

    What is very dangerous right now is that MSM, both left and right, is pre-conditioning people, esp. Americans, for war against China by whipping up all sorts of absurd and manufactured dis/misinformation/lies about COV19 and China.

    If US politicians are going for a war against China to get themselves deflect their utter incompetence, total corruption, get out of the economic crisis and score political point to get re-elected, WWIII is waiting for all of us.

    An Iraq WMD-eque moment is playing out right in front of our eyes. I hope my Tiananmen debunking posts can open some people’s eyes to be vigilant against MSM brainwash, but am rather pessimistic, to be honest.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Miro23
  652. Rurik says:

    what are we to make of this?

    London 2012 Olympics opening ceremony –

  653. lulu says:
    @FB

    One more website with tons of information debunk MSM narratives regarding Tiananmen Square Massacre: https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/06/02/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-fiction-and-propaganda/

    Btw, Gene Sharp, god father of Colour Revolution, actually paid a visit to Beijing during this period time.

    [MORE]

    The CIA and the relevant NGOs, eg, The National Endowment for Democracy(NED) and the Voice of America (VOA), were involved in the plotting of the regime change. The CIA moved Gene Sharp, author of the Color Revolution manual, to Beijing where financier George Soros had incorporated the eponymous Fund for the Reform and Opening of China. CIA Director George H.W. Bush withdrew Ambassador Winston Lord from Beijing and replaced him with James Lilley, an operative experienced in regime change. Bush and Lilley had been close friends since the early 1970s when Lilley was the head of station for the CIA in Beijing and Bush was Chief of Mission and de facto Ambassador. In 1975, as Bush was returning to Washington from Beijing to head the CIA he appointed Lilley National Intelligence Officer for China, the highest-ranked expert on China in the American intelligence community. They infiltrated the universities and recruited some professors and student leaders, as well as paying some of the workers to ignite a violent unrest on that night. They knew that they controlled the media that would garner enough support from the world outside as long as they produce a well-scripted plot.

    During the demonstration, activists from Hong Kong, Taiwan, US etc were working fanatically to keep the “fire” going. Noteworthy regime changers from the CIA were also present. They provided all the necessary food and tents for the students

    Link: https://thegeopolitics.com/the-geopolitics-behind-the-tiananmen-square-incident/

  654. FB says: • Website
    @lulu

    Well…I don’t think war against China is in the cards…even Iran seems a bit too big for the Ponzi Superpower…

    Anything much bigger than Grenada would seem to be a stretch…LOL

  655. @d dan

    China can do more than just follow the US example and steal property that dos not belong to it (like the US stole Venezuelan funds, for example). It can crash the whole “world financial system” that the US is the greatest beneficiary of, as it prints dollars that other countries accept as money. Then the dream of Congress prostitutes of borrowing an extra two trillion to give them to fat cats would become a nightmare. Maybe it’s high time someone did that.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  656. utu says:
    @utu

    Russian Professor Peter Chumakov from Russia sings form the same hymn book as Luc Montagnier:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249875/Wuhan-laboratory-scientists-did-absolutely-crazy-things-alter-coronavirus.html
    In China, scientists at the Wuhan Laboratory have been actively involved in the development of various coronavirus variants for over ten years.

    Moreover, they did this, supposedly not with the aim of creating pathogenic variants, but to study their pathogenicity.

    There are several inserts, that is, substitutions of the natural sequence of the genome, which gave it special properties.

    For example, inserts in the genome, which gave the virus the ability to infect human cells.

    What are we seeing here? Is it an expert scientific opinion? Did this guy do any research on his own or is he just just repeating what first was floated by the paper form India that since has been withdrawn?

    One thing for sure is that the campaign to malign China blaming it for synthesizing the virus and releasing it form lab has spread to Russia. Russians are very conspiracy prone so he is seeding a very fertile soil even though official statement coming from Kremlin are to disbelieve rumors that the virus was created in a lab.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  657. @Incitatus

    Read the chart’s title: Healthy Life Expectancy at Birth..Healthy life expectancy (HALE) at birth adds up expectation of life for different health states, adjusted for severity distribution making it sensitive to changes over …Americans will live longer, but their last decades will be miserably unhealthy, as they are now.

    The Disposable Income chart is incorrect as it stands. Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll add ‘PPP’ to its title.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @Anonymous
  658. utu says:
    @FB

    “…a guy who heads up a prominent lab, and is kind enough to give his time…” – Are you sure he heads any lab? Are you even sure that he is he? We know one thing for sure that she is a butthurt sovok, Stalin apologist and Solzhenitsyn hater.

    • Replies: @FB
  659. d dan says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    “…considered the idea that the Tiananmen incident was the work of agents provocateur working for Washington…”

    The “movement”, such as it was, essentially began in the springtime of 1989 and consisted of a rag-tag group of students. An atmosphere of tension got started a few months earlier when some students in Nanjing got upset at Africans. I had read about an incident later, where Chinese guys in one city got very pissed off that African guys had been treated favorably when trying to get inside a discotheque. Petty violence ensued.

    LOL. Look at how fast “Been_there_done_that” tries to misdirect this from

    “…agents provocateur working for Washington”

    to

    “… African guys had been treated favorably when trying to get inside a discotheque”

    Yeah, Tiananmen incident was due to someone being treated unfairly in a discotheque – that is how dumb they think we are these days. The true disciple of “we lie, we cheat, we steal” Pompeo is at work full time here.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  660. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Historians say? Read what epidemiologists say.

  661. @CanSpeccy

    the much derided later ideas of two-time Nobel prize winner, Linus Pauling, were much derided by Big Pharma. His clinical results were unimpeachable.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  662. Ryan2 says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Thank you. I’m still a little confused.

    So the “alt right” Unz etc was the anti-establishment release valve that got Trump elected.

    Limited Hangout?

    “Once that purpose had been served, the movement quickly turned into a slavish mouthpiece for the very same regime it previously demonized.”

    I think I get that

    Now under Corona:
    “You have a bunch of lame idiots who think that kowtowing to the capitalists in the CCP is a way of resisting the US empire, but they’re of course having exactly the opposite effect.”

    Haha. Thanks for trying to clear it up for me. I have about nine more questions. I’ll have to think about it. This must be what they mean by 4D chess.

    Cheers!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  663. @CanSpeccy

    Population surveys… Well they couldn’t be wrong could they? And if it is 21% that is not even close to getting to herd immunity in the area hit hardest in the county. At this optimistic rate it could take years.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  664. Seraphim says:
    @Anonymous

    Who cannot talk about Chinese but in derogatory terms (chinks, chicoms, insectoids, f***ing chinks, dirty, their food is disgusting, they steal from us, they take advantage of us, they are not creative like we are, throw them out of the country,etc)? The Indians, the Niggahs, Mexicans? Or Trump’s ‘electoral base’, susceptible to propaganda they want to hear?

  665. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Suggest you look up “historic”.

    Various indices mean little of substance. I used to be in that race, and publication record did not imply much in terms of content. So – look up “historic”, maybe read a bit about how China works, work with a few Chinese. Then write.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  666. Incitatus says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “China can do more than just follow the US example and steal property that dos not belong to it (like the US stole Venezuelan funds, for example). It can crash the whole “world financial system” that the US is the greatest beneficiary of, as it prints dollars that other countries accept as money.”

    Golly!

    Don’t you think (for decades) China already tried that with currency exchange mischief? Poor, poor (authoritarian and COVID-19 endemic) China.

    Here’s the thing. China’s economy depends on decadent US consumers. Sucks, doesn’t it? Genuine love/hate relationship. Suicide pact?

    You have an Unz star? Sad.

  667. @Incitatus

    Don’t you know that supporting existing financial order is a much bigger thing than currency manipulation? China is already gently undermining the US $ by establishing oil trade in yuans and trading with many countries in other currencies. Where do you think would the US borrow trillions? From subservient Republic of Palau, or from habitual beggar Ukraine? Or maybe from Baltic vaudeville states that would go under w/o EU subsidies? China holds more than a trillion in US debt for a reason: there are very few countries than can lend this kind of money.

  668. @Anonymous

    By themselves, they may not but, correlated with other indices, like patents issued, they may. Here are more clues:

    • Replies: @Miro23
  669. @Incitatus

    China’s economy does not and never has depended on US consumers. That’s just a self-aggrandizing myth.

    China’s exports are 17% of GDP and only 15% of that goes to the USA. Minuscule.

    • Agree: Jaylonw
  670. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Biological agents represent an existential threat to the world. Thus every serious power has a biowarfare research lab where people think up what could be the most horrible biological weapon possible then seek means to protect troops or populations from it. In other words, all high level biohazard labs are engaged in developing biological weapons. This said to be necessary in order to develop antidotes and defenses against biological weapons.

    That being the case, it seems entirely likely that a lab in Wuhan or elsewhere in China was working with strains of bat “flu”. That is what was happening at Canada’s Winnipeg lab and the Ft Detrich lab. in the US. Indeed, both Ft. Detrich and Winnipeg appear to have been cooperating with the Wuhan lab in work with bat viruses. So the idea that the Covid19 virus escaped the lab in Wuhan or elsewhere is plausible.

    The floundering response to the virus in the US and other countries suggests to some that it was released as a deliberate attack on the West. Maybe it was. The demonstration that even the manufacture of face masks is an overwhelming challenge for most Western countries certainly damages Western credibility and prestige.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  671. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “But all the more reason to question his judgement…” – No question about it but this is not really the issue at this point. We are not in the middle of a scientific inquiry that is pursuing the truth. The truth won’t be known to us because we are in the middle of disinformation campaign run by intelligence services of the US (Five Eyes)+Israel, China, and Russia. All kinds of assets, patsies and hacks are being drafted for the information war by all factions. Ron Unz is part of it even though he believes that all he cares about is truth and justice.

    People can be manipulated and induced to publicly give their opinions. There’s no fool like an old fool with deficits in the ego department. The fools will be used and discarded but their contributions will be lasting. I am sure that many people upon hearing the name of Luc Montagnier, particularly in France and Europe, paid attention. His appearance on some third rate talk show and then amplification via comments whether they were approvals or condemnations in all French media accomplished the purpose.

    It is relatively easy to manipulate a person once you know their weaknesses, aspirations and know what makes them tick. Every decent person wants to be and sees himself as a person with integrity. But this integrity can be breached. One would think that Luc Montagnier, would be smarter after what he went trough in the HIV priority dispute and what kinds of dirty tricks were used. Or perhaps he knows exactly what he is doing and whom he is serving. From the noblesse oblige to Nobel prize oblige – when you have to pay your dues.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
  672. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:

    It says a lot about how low unz.com has sunk when Incitatus is the voice of reason.

    • Agree: Jaylonw
  673. FB says: • Website
    @Incitatus

    Actually China’s economy depends very little on US consumers, or exports in general…their domestic consumer base is so big now, and getting bigger all the time…that exports are not an existential issue…not inconsequential but not a backbreaker either…

    Btw exports to the EU are much bigger…China could afford to lose US exports…

    Germany otoh is hugely dependant on exports…

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  674. FB says: • Website
    @utu

    One thing I AM definitely sure of…

    You’re an annoying little RODENT

    [my apologies to insane Chihuahuas everywhere for previously equating a rodent to their species…]

  675. Incitatus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “Read the [unsourced] chart’s title: Healthy Life Expectancy at Birth..Healthy life expectancy (HALE) at birth adds up expectation of life for different health states, adjusted for severity distribution making it sensitive to changes over …Americans will live longer, but their last decades will be miserably unhealthy, as they are now.”

    Golly. My dad lived to 103 years (all but the last 3 months cogent – ‘healthy’). My mom to 98. Neither seemed “miserably unhealthy”. Quite the opposite.

    Sorry I have the same genes (as do my siblings). All of us are living longer (70+) without disease and, contrary to your post – none of us are “miserable”. In fact, each is healthy and financially comfortable. Sorry.

    Naturally COVID-19 may change all of that.

    Stay well Godfree.

    PS. The Chinese people deserve great credit. Their great leader Xi Jinping (no doubt) affirms that. Right after Cook and Apple tell him such.

    • Troll: vot tak
  676. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @davidgmillsatty

    And if it is 21% that is not even close to getting to herd immunity

    No? Perhaps you would tell us, then, what is the level for herd immunity and how you determine that value. Also, why will it take years to reach whatever you think is required for herd immunity, when 21% has been reached in little over three months?

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  677. @anon8383892

    Much like the nano-thermite on 9/11. There was that one scientist from Utah who had all these interviews, they fired him, he must be dead by now I guessing. Disappeared. Anyways, in the case of 9/11 I have at least my own visual intuition to go on, fitting that with the mechanics as described of the nano-thermite material.

    9/11 was “very likely” a nuclear demolition:

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Nuclear_demolition

    • Agree: Alfred
    • LOL: Spanky
  678. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    You must work for the CIA, your absurdist pro-Chinese agit-prop is having exactly the opposite effect.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  679. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “Deaths reported daily in New York are now falling, indicating development of significant herd immunity’

    No, they are falling because of social distancing and lockdown countermeasures. 21% is nowhere near the herd immunity. If you lift the countermeasures now the daily new infections would begin to grow again providing that infectious people are still around.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  680. Incitatus says:
    @FB

    “Actually China’s economy depends very little on US consumers, or exports in general…”

    Thank goodness. Felt guilty for decades lagging behind buying stuff from China.

    “their domestic consumer base is so big now, and getting bigger all the time…that exports are not an existential issue…not inconsequential but not a backbreaker either…”

    That’s great! What a relief! Doubtless the Chinese domestic consumer market will dictate political leadership?

    Is that what you’re saying FB?

    As for Germany, you’re probably right on their dependence on exports. Yet (correct me if wrong) they have a surplus – money to spare, money to spend. Who would have thought?

    Stay well FB

  681. Jaylonw says:

    Supporting evidence to a first generation of covid 19, started in Maryland, i.e type A, which is much less infectious than the type B in Wuhan, obviously the way and time to prove this will never be given.

  682. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    21% is nowhere near the herd immunity.

    How do you know? You don’t. No one knows. It depends on social dynamics. Certainly herd immunity will be achieved with less than the rate of infection required where social interactions are purely random. How much less will depend on population age distribution, cultural factors, time of year, and much else.

    Anyhow, who cares what it is exactly. Whatever it is, that many people have to get infected before we’re there. So, unless hospitals are overloaded, why not get on with it and end the lock-downs, at least for most people, while keeping the most vulnerable in quarantine. And if hospitals are overloaded why not build temporary ones as the Chinese did? That would be much cheaper than shutting the economy for months. But forget the ventilators, they merely torture people for days before they die anyway, although of course they mean big money for hospitals. So much, in fact, that if you survive, you probably wish you hadn’t once you get the bill.

    • Replies: @utu
  683. @Anonymous

    Damn! My cunning disguise was for naught.

    An honest man, when confronted with facts that contradict his long-held beliefs, ceases to believe. Other men, when confronted with such facts, cease to be honest (or rational). —Mark Twain

  684. @CanSpeccy

    Peter Daszak, disease ecologist and the president of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit that works globally to identify and study our vulnerabilities to emerging infectious disease, “I’ve been working with that [Wuhan] lab for 15 years. And the samples collected were collected by me and others in collaboration with our Chinese colleagues. They’re some of the best scientists in the world. There was no viral isolate in the lab. There was no cultured virus that’s anything related to SARS coronavirus 2. So it’s just not possible.”

    https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/peter_daszak_coronavirus

  685. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    His clinical results were unimpeachable.

    Which were?

    Not sure if Pauling anticipated Covid19 but this is interesting: Fauci Backpedals on Vitamin C and D Recommendations.

    Which reminds me to take some Vitamin D. Wonder if Vitamin D affects the infection rate for herd immunity. If so, do Utu and others take that into account when calculating what the herd immunity level is?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  686. Ron Unz says:
    @CanSpeccy

    A population survey in NY City indicates an immunity rate of 21%, which implies an infection-specific death rate of around 0.38%.

    The NY study you mention seems reasonably solid and the infection rate it found was fairly plausible. But the conclusions are the *exact* opposition from what you suggest.

    Over the last six weeks, there have been over 19K “excess deaths” in NYC, suggesting that the Coronavirus has killed something like 0.22% of the total population:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    There are lots of timing issues and complexities in conflicting directions. But if we just just crudely apply the 21% infection rate to the 0.22% death rate, we end up with an IFR of over 1%, which is VERY high.

    If the Coronavirus has an IFR of 1% and were allowed to spread across the country and infect (say) 200M Americans, it would produce at least a couple of million deaths, probably much more since the health care system would crash.

    I’m really getting fed up with all the stupid Flu Hoaxers and may just have to get rid of them…

    • Agree: L.K
    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
    , @refl
  687. Ron Unz says:
    @lulu

    Youtube and Twitter keep on deleting the precious truth-telling videos, so try to save these info if you want to keep some records.

    Thanks for the videos. Perhaps someone should add English subtitles then repost them on Bitchute, which is a distributed system having very little censorship to allow permanent copies to be available.

  688. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Social dynamics is high in NY. Kaiser Permeant estimated pre-lockdown Ro in S. California at around 2.09. This would imply that herd immunity there would require approx. 50% prevalence. You can get a rough approx. with 1-1/Ro formula. In NYC you expect Ro to be higher. This guy:

    http://systrom.com/blog/the-metric-we-need-to-manage-covid-19/

    estimated Ro=3 for NY State. So for NYC it would be more than 3. Say, Ro=4 the you need 75% prevalence.

    If you make everybody wear masks, wash their hands, reduce the frequency of going out per week Ro will be reduced. Right now Ro in NY Sate is below 1. Daily cases have a negative slope.

    Anyway, the 21% result has serious flaw that of sampling. They sampled people who were going shopping which is a subpopulation that goes out and is more likely to be infected.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  689. Julius says:
    @anon

    right, Trump got himself elected, against the wishes of the largest most powerful global cabal of elitist neocon deep state thugs ever to walk the face of the planet, cause he’s a superhero.
    He’s doing battle with them all, singlehandedly.

    You’d have to be a complete moron to believe such nonsense.

    Trump is either in league with them all because being potus feeds his narcissistic need for attention,
    or he’s just another useful idiot doing his part for the neocon deep state.
    Trump, like you & I, and JFK, is powerless against them.

  690. Miro23 says:
    @lulu

    What is very dangerous right now is that MSM, both left and right, is pre-conditioning people, esp. Americans, for war against China by whipping up all sorts of absurd and manufactured dis/misinformation/lies about COV19 and China.

    An Iraq WMD-eque moment is playing out right in front of our eyes. I hope my Tiananmen debunking posts can open some people’s eyes to be vigilant against MSM brainwash, but am rather pessimistic, to be honest.

    China isn’t Iraq – the US isn’t going to risk a war with nuclear armed China.

    However, China is the main trading partner of Iran (oil trade, military etc.) and gives it useful political support. Ref. this article in the South China Morning Post:
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3045253/china-and-iran-relationship-built-trade-weapons-and-oil.

    If the US (Israel) wants to attack Iran (fabricating a provocation) under cover of this Coronavirus panic, then demonizing China works to separate it from its Iranian ally.

    The MSM paralyzes China to same way that they paralyze Russia with fake news (Russian hacking etc) so that if they actually do something it’s “We told you so – Here they are doing it again!!)

  691. @Ozymandias

    For your information, Fort Detrick, the U.S.’s major biowarfare installation is just outside the nation’s capital and within the Boston–Washington Corridor, the nation’s most populous and most economically vital region. There is nothing unusual about a facility of that kind being located near a major city—such a location facilitates logistics and recruitment—and to suggest the mere existence of the lab in Wuhan is somehow evidence there was a leak from that lab is a rather inane leap of logic.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Ozymandias
  692. @CanSpeccy

    Oh God, that crap again. Some geezer who may or may not have any relevant expertise, had a suspicion, but absolutely no proof, of a goofy theory that to launch a biowarfare attack on China the US Government had the brilliant idea of having the agent released by a contingent of 300 American soldiers participating in the international military games held in Wuhan, China.

    Is that a stupid idea, or what?

    The typical dumb American patriotism rears its head again. No one is accusing George Washington and Abe Lincoln of anything. All it would take to perpetrate a biowarfare attack against China is a handful of Deep State pricks—and there is a lot more than a handful there.

    • Replies: @utu
  693. @CanSpeccy

    The CCDC has published a 59-page clinical manual for Covid-19 which my Australian MD nephew says is excellent. Vitamin C may be covered there: https://video-intl.alicdn.com/Handbook%20of%20COVID-19%20Prevention%20and%20Treatment%20%28Standard%29.pdf

    You’ll have to track down the entire Pauling/Cameron story yourself since I am otherwise engaged, but here’s an amuse boucher:

    [MORE]

    VITAMIN C AND CANCER: A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE
    Today I propose to tell you of my personal involvement in this still highly controversial subject, the vitamin C in cancer story. The matter is capable of arousing almost any emotion from bitter prejudice and blazing anger on the one hand, to unbridled (and undeserved) enthusiasm on the other, with all grades of scorn, laughter, ridicule, and pity in between. I hope to convince you that the whole research project has a perfectly sound scientific basis, and that Dr. Pauling and I are neither gullible fools, nor are we charlatans.
    Contrary to what our many critics may think, the idea that vitamin C (ascorbic acid) might have some therapeutic value in cancer, has a perfectly respectable scientific background. In my own case, it evolved from a whole series of arguments progressively developed over many years.
    As we all know, the cancer cell has two behavioral characteristics, namely relentless proliferation and remorseless invasion. Almost all cancer research, directed towards evolving new treatment strategies, has concentrated on finding methods of destroying proliferating cells. And, of course, it is quite wrong to imagine that this approach has failed. We have radiation therapy, very effective in many forms of cancer, and a whole armory of cytotoxic chemotherapeutic drugs capable of killing proliferating cancer cells. However, as we all know, their use is limited because they also destroy all proliferating normal cells. In passing, it is interesting to note that the oncologists, who are our bitterest critics, do not possess a single specific anti-cancer drug in their cupboards.
    For many years I have felt almost alone in suggesting an alternate way of controlling the cancer cell, by devising methods of disarming its other property, namely invasiveness. Invasiveness is quite unique to the cancer cell, therefore any treatment strategy along these lines would be quite specific for cancer, leaving all normal cells unharmed. Furthermore, invasiveness, the ability to infiltrate, ulcerate, and destroy adjacent tissues including the ability to form distant metastases themselves invasive, is the dangerous and ultimately lethal property of the malignant cell. Inhibit invasiveness, and the cancer cell becomes harmless.
    To inhibit invasiveness requires an understanding of the underlying mechanism. Compressing many years of personal work, I may simply say that it is due to the continuous release of the enzyme hyaluronidase from the malignant cell, depolymerizing and hydrolyzing the glycosaminoglycans and proteoglycans that form the viscous ground substance that binds all tissue components together (1).
    Tumor cell hyaluronidase may be inhibited by preparing antisera, and Soviet investigators have reported some success in tumor-bearing animals using this route. One may inhibit hyaluronidase by pharmacological methods, but the compounds known to be active are all fairly toxic and interfere in many enzyme systems. To me, the most promising route could be the one labeled “natural” or “physiological.”
    Way back in the early 1950’s, Dr. David Glick, late of Stanford University, discovered that there exists in the tissue and plasma of all animal species, including man, a substance he labeled Physiological Hyaluronidase Inhibitor or PHI. Moreover, this plasma fraction occupies a fairly narrow, low range in healthy individuals, but rises appreciably in all cancer patients though not always to the same extent (2). Dr. Glick’s main interest was in discovering a diagnostic laboratory test for cancer, and when he found that elevated levels were found in a number of acute infections and other cell-proliferative illnesses, he promptly lost interest (3).
    Spontaneous regression of advanced human cancers have been documented on many hundreds of occasions usually following massive bacterial infections, classically erisypelas. I postulated that massive invasion of the tissues by hyaluronidase-producing streptococci, as in erisypelas, would swamp the circulation with depolymerization by-products including PHI raised to such a high level that the tumor would be permanently suppressed. Finding a safe method of permanently raising PHI to a very high level could lead to a cancer cure. These arguments and the supporting evidence are given at length in my 1966 book (1).
    Ground substance glycosaminoglycan is a very high molecular weight polymer of the repeating disaccharide unit (Glucuronic Acid-N-Acetyl Glucosamine). After my book was published, some Australian workers led by Peter Ghosh discovered that PHI was a glycoprotein of which the carbohydrate moiety was a tetrasacharide of ground substance origin, but changed in some subtle way to give it its specific inhibitory activity (5). Glucuronic acid is the intermediate in the biosynthesis of ascorbic acid from glucose. Douglas Rotman, a young American and I, indicated in 1971 that PHI was simply the basic tetrasachharide in which one or both glucuronic acid units had become replaced by its near chemical relative, ascorbic acid (6).
    This led to the seemingly absurd conclusion that simple, safe, common vitamin C might have some therapeutic value against such a bafflingly complex disease as cancer. I say absurd, because until then the only use of vitamin C in my hospital was as a placebo sleeping tablet. I can therefore understand why the medical profession is still skeptical about our work. I cannot understand the open hostility expressed in some quarters.
    The proposal gains some support from the oft-repeated finding that cancer patients are almost invariably depleted of vitamin C (references in 7) and high in PHI (2). My strategy was to prescribe vitamin C in the hope of boosting PHI to the maximum possible extent.
    Just as the idea evolved, I learned that Professor Linus Pauling had stated that vitamin C might be helpful for cancer patients. My first reaction was one of dismay, even defeat, but such a feeling did not last very long. I wrote immediately to Dr. Pauling and we have been close collaborators ever since. Dr. Pauling had reasoned that an adequacy of vitamin C (necessary for collagen formation) might increase the scirrhous reaction and help encapsulate tumors (8). On further reading we realized that vitamin C was involved in many other aspects of host resistance, such as cell-mediated immunity and the biosynthesis of interferon (9, 10). Many independent investigators subsequently were able to show that ascorbate administered in the gram range enhanced these defensive mechanisms to levels of activity far above the so-called normal range (11-15). Therefore, there is a strong case for the expectation that supplemental vitamin C, in adequate dosage, might have some beneficial effect against cancer.
    I administered ascorbate very tentatively to a few near-moribund cancer patients commencing in November 1971, the route chosen being by continuous intravenous infusion of at first 5 grams every twenty-four hours, then ten grams a day, for an empirical total of ten days, followed by the same dose by mouth. In a few of these very early patients the effect was very dramatic indeed and almost unbelievable. One example will suffice to make the point.
    Mrs. K., a lady of 64, was operated upon in September 1971 and was found to have a massive irresectable ovarian cancer. No treatment was possible, and she was sent home to die. She was readmitted in late November 1971, semi-conscious with massive ascites. This was drained, leaving a rock hard palpable tumor the size of a football, rising from the pelvis. Intravenous ascorbate was commenced and to everyone’s surprise, and certainly to mine, the tumor began to steadily diminish in size, until it became quite impalpable over a period of some three weeks. This remarkable happening was confirmed by an initially highly skeptical colleague. This bedridden, moribund patient became ambulant, and I remember her yet, helping the nurses carry food trays to other patients.
    Suddenly one evening about a month after admission she commenced profuse vomiting and died within hours despite our attempts at resuscitation. At autopsy, the pelvic organs looked remarkably normal, but small seeds of tumor were scattered through the abdominal cavity, particularly on the underside of the diaphragm, the actual cause of death being high intestinal obstruction from multiple adhesions. I sent the slides to the leading British cancer histopathologist, Professor Rupert Willis, who reported that the residual tumor seedlings still showed active mitosis, and the only difference between the original tumor biopsy of September, and the autopsy material, was a high level of inter-cellular calcification in the latter, usually a sign of high host resistance.
    This dramatic patient only lived 28 days after “treatment” commenced, which to my mind demonstrates the futility of regarding increased survival times as the only yardstick of benefit, as convention requires.
    However as our experience increased, I soon came to realize that not all cancer patients responded in such a dramatic manner, and I sometimes wonder whether, had our early patients presented in a different order, we might have lost interest quite early on.
    I continued to prescribe supplemental ascorbate to many terminal cancer patients, and over the years we did encounter a small series of quite dramatic cases that sustained our continuing interest. I shall only mention one more, the only case of its kind on record, to the best of my knowledge.
    This concerns a 40 year old man with widely disseminated reticulum cell sarcoma, confirmed by lymph node biopsy. Arrangements were in hand for him to be treated by the conventional methods of radiation and chemotherapy, but due to a purely administrative mistake, and not as the result of a deliberate clinical decision, this could not be commenced for two weeks. As a purely holding operation, he was started on intravenous vitamin C, and within two weeks all trace of his disease (hepatomegaly, splenomegaly, gross disseminated lymphadenopathy, mediastinal enlargement, and pleural effusion) had completely disappeared. He was released home without conventional treatment and on oral ascorbate. As the months went by, his continuing well-being raised understandable doubts about the correctness of the original diagnosis, despite the histological “proof,” and his ascorbate was gradually reduced. After one month without any supplemental ascorbate his disease returned in all its original manifestations. He was given a further period on intravenous ascorbate, again with complete resolution of his illness. This man remains well more than 10 years later, still on supplemental ascorbate. Spontaneous remission of cancer has been recorded on quite a number of occasions, but this is the only case on record who has gotten better twice! I may add that the original slides have now been examined by quite a number of both British and American pathologists, and all agree with the correctness of the original diagnosis (16).
    By now, our publications (17, 18) were receiving some scattered attention, and we came under pressure to conduct “proper” trials. As a single-handed surgeon working in a relatively small hospital, it would have taken me a decade or more to collect a sufficient number of identical patients with an identical type of cancer, all at the same stage of their illness, to enable me to conduct a “proper” randomized double-blind clinical trial. We did the best we could; we conducted two controlled trials (19, 20) in which the survival time of groups of 100 cancer patients given supplemental ascorbate in the later stage of their illness was compared to the survival time of 1000 matched patients not given ascorbate. In the first study, the controls were selected “blind” by a young New Zealand doctor, specially employed for the purpose. I and a research assistant selected the controls for the second study. Both trials showed a definite survival advantage for the patients given ascorbate.
    These papers attracted world-wide media attention, and prompted a deluge of letters from cancer patients in many countries. Dr. Pauling and I wrote the book Cancer and Vitamin C in the hope of answering such questions, and lightening our mail-bags, but our effort has been unsuccessful. The letters and telephone calls continue unabated. Dan Rather of CBS network news in a recent broadcast stated that they estimated that 100,000 cancer patients in the United States were now taking vitamin C, with or without the tacit consent of their doctors.
    We have recently completed a four year trial involving 2,860 cancer patients attending three medium sized general hospitals in Scotland over the four year period from 1978 to 1982. This study was mainly funded by I.B.M. (United Kingdom) Ltd., who devised a computerized records system to suit our requirements. The data has been analyzed as follows: Firstly, patients who died within two weeks of first hospital attendance are excluded. Secondly, all patients who first attended the hospital less than six months before the study ended are also excluded. Finally, all patients who remain potentially cured (e.g. no known recurrence after primary curative surgery) are also excluded. This leaves 1,826 incurable cancer patients, some of whom received supplemental ascorbate (296) and the remainder (1532) who did not, effectively randomized by the date of first hospital attendance. The median survival time of the control patients, as measured from the date of first hospital attendance to the date of death (or to the end of the study, if still alive at that time), was 180 days, whereas the comparable time for the ascorbate group was 343 days (P less than 0.0001). The results of this study, in much more detail, are contained in a manuscript submitted to The New England Journal of Medicinein 1984; as yet (January 1986) no decision has been reached regarding acceptance or rejection for publication (21). It is regrettable that the whole vitamin C and cancer controversy seems to becoming a political football.
    Although convention requires therapeutic benefit in cancer patients be measured by increased survival times, I (and the patients and their relatives) am much more impressed by enhanced quality and dignity of their remaining days. Although chemotherapy is so widely used in the United States, it offers no survival benefit in the great majority of adult cancers (22), and is associated with much iatrogenic misery. Patients given ascorbate are spared all that, but in addition they enjoy a very positive benefit. From the earliest days, I was constantly impressed by the rapidly improved vigor and sense of well-being reported by these patients, yet could not stress this in our publications because we could not offer any biochemical explanation. Now I can report that a few of these dying cancer patients assumed levels of athletic activity that were quite unbelievable considering their diagnosis (23, 24).
    The answer lies in the molecule carnitine, and the discovery by Hughes that vitamin C is an essential co-factor in its biosynthesis (25). As we have already seen, cancer patients are invariably depleted of circulating and tissue reserves of the vitamin, therefore their carnitine synthesis will be impaired, as Hughes demonstrated in the guinea pig (24). The only known function of carnitine is the transport of fatty acids across the mitochondrial membrane of muscle cells (including gastrointestinal and cardiac muscle cells) where they are oxidized to provide muscle energy. It seems a very reasonable assumption that depleted muscle carnitine could account for all the systemic features of the cancer illness – lassitude and muscle weakness, muscle wasting and weight loss, anorexia and frequently troublesome constipation, terminal overwhelming weakness, and finally death itself. It also explains why these ill patients report such a remarkable improvement in energy and well-being within a week or two of commencing supplemental ascorbate.
    Despite unethical and unprofessional well-publicized attacks on our integrity in the media by Mayo Clinic investigators on the basis of two very seriously flawed trials (26-29), I remain convinced that the value of supplemental ascorbate has now been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that in time supplemental ascorbate will come to form a part of all comprehensive cancer treatment regimens. It appears that the general public is already ahead of the medical profession in reaching such a decision (30).
    1. Cameron E. Hyaluronidase and Cancer. Oxford and New York, Pergamon Press, 19 66.
    2. Glick D. Hyaluronidase inhibitor of buman blood serum in health and disease. J Mt Sinai Hosp 1950; 17:207-228.
    3. Glick D. Personal conversation with author. 1979.
    4. Everson TC, Cole WH. Spontaneous Regression of Human Cancer. _________. 1966.
    5. Harris PA, Stephens RW, Ghosh P, Taylor ATP. Endo- and exo-glycosidases in an experimental rat osteosarcoma. Aust J Exp Biol Bed Sci 1977; 55:363-370.
    6. Cameron E, Rotman D. Ascorbic acid, cell proliferation and cancer. Lancet 1972; ii:542.
    7. Cameron E, Pauling L, Leibovitz B. Ascorbic acid and cancer: a review. Cancer Res 1979; 39:663-681.
    8. Pauling L. Preventive nutrition. Medicine on the Midway (Chicago, IL) 1972; 27:15-18.
    9. Cameron E, Pauling L. Ascorbic acid and the glycosaminoglycans:an orthomolecular approach to cancer and other diseases. Oncology 1973; 27:181-192.
    10. Cameron E, Pauling L. The orthomolecular treatment of cancer. I. The role of ascorbic acid in host resistance. Chem Biol Interact 1974; 9:273-283.
    11. Kalden JR, Guthy EA. Prolonged allograft survival in vitamin C deficient guinea pigs. Eur Surg Res 1972 ; 4: 114-119.
    12. Yonemoto RH, Chretien PB, Fehniger TF. Enhanced lymphocyte blastogenesis by oral ascorbic acid. Proc Am Assoc Cancer Res 1976; 17:288.
    13. Seigel BV, Morton JI. Vitamin C and the immune response. Experimentia 1977; 33:393-395.
    14. Seigel BV, Morton JI. Interferon and the immune response. In Re-evaluation of Vitamin C, Hanck A, Ritzel G (eds). Bern, Switzerland: Verlag Hans Huber, 1977.
    15. Anderson R. Ascorbic acid and immune functions: mechanisms of immunostimulation. In Vitamin C: Ascorbic Acid, Counsell JN, Hornig DH (eds). Englewood NJ: Applied Science Publishers, 1981: 249-272.
    16. Cameron E, Campbell A, Jack T. The orthomolecular treatment of cancer. III. Reticulum cell sarcoma: double complete regression induced by high-dose ascorbic acid therapy. Chem Biol Interact 1975; 11:387-393.
    17. Cameron E, Baird G. Ascorbic acid and dependence on opiates in patients with advanced disseminated cancer. IRCS(medicine) August 1973.
    18. Cameron E, Campbell A. The orthomolecular treatment of cancer. II. Clinical trial of high-dose ascorbic acid supplements in advanced human cancer. Chem Biol Interact 1974; 9:285-315.
    19. Cameron E, Pauling L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive treatment of cancer. I. Prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer. Proc Natl Acad Sci (USA) 1976; 73:3685-3689.
    20. Cameron E, Pauling L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive treatment of cancer: reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer. Proc Natl Acad Sci (USA) 1978; 75:4538-4542.
    21. Cameron E, Moffat L, Campbell A, Marcuson R. Supplemental ascorbate in incurable cancer. Submitted to N Eng J Med 1984.
    22. Moertel
    23. Cameron E. Vitamin C and cancer cachexia; the carnitine connection. In Roots of Molecular Medicine; A Tribute to Dr. Pauling, Heumer RP (ed). New York: WH Freeman, 1986.
    24. Cameron E. Vitamin C, carnitine, and cancer; or “My God, I feel so much better, doctor!” In Yearbook of Nutritional Medicine, second edition, Bland JF (ed). New Canaan, CT: Keats Publishing Co., 1986.
    25. Hughes RE. Recommended daily amounts and biochemical roles – the vitamin C, carnitine, fatigue relationship. In Vitamin C – Ascorbic Acid, Counsell JN, Hornig DH (eds). London and New Jersey: Applied Science Publishers, 1981.
    26. Creagan ET, Moertel CG, O’Fallon JR, Schutt AJ, O’Connell MJ, Rubin J, Frytak S. Failure of high-dose vitamin C to benefit patients with advanced cancer. N Eng J Med 1979; 301:687-690. [The first Mayo Clinic trial.]
    27. Moertel CG, Fleming TR, Creagan ET, Rubin J, O’Connell MJ, Ames MA. High-dose vitamin C versus placebo in the treatment of patients with advanced cancer who have had no prior chemotherapy. N Eng J Med 1985; 312:137-141. [The second Mayo Clinic trial.]
    28. Cameron E. Vitamin C for cancer [letter] N Engl J Med 1980; 302:299.
    29. Pauling L. Vitamin C therapy of advanced cancer [letter]. N Eng J Med 1980; 302:694.
    30. Richardson E. The vitamin C and cancer controversy. N Scientist 1986; [forthcoming].

    • Thanks: annamaria
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  694. Miro23 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    IMO the PISA results are the best international indicator out there of future economic performance. Thanks for the 2018 chart.

    Note these unexpected countries now tagging along at the back of the advanced country pack:

    Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Netherlands, Iceland, Israel, Hungary, Lithuania [all behind Portugal].

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @utu
  695. Live historical revisionism in progress – on the Bubonic Plague page of Wikipedia there have been in access of 400 edits in the past 4 months to invent/accuse the source of the plague came from China. Someone must be getting really desperate.

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
    • LOL: Alfred, Jaylonw
  696. Seraphim says:
    @Ray Caruso

    The more that leaks from Fort Detrick DID happen and are well documented, and there must have been very serious if the joint, ‘the leading biodefense center’ (U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases) had to be closed in August 2019. It was reopened on 30 March because “USAMRIID conducts vital research on the spread and containment of infectious diseases. As we continue to battle the coronavirus outbreak, ensuring their ability to work at full capacity is more important now than ever”!

  697. Alden says:
    @Gaius Gracchus

    Thanks for a sensible, reasonable rebuttal to the endless China good America bad articles and comments on UNZ. The Chinese propaganda here is so obvious I’m beginning to wonder if Rob UNZ, like Godfree Roberts is just another paid advertising man for the PRC.

    One question I have for the China all good, America all bad crowd.

    If America created and then sprinkled the virus around Wuhan to destroy the Chinese economy, why didn’t the evil Americans just move all American manufacturing back to America and deport all the Chinese scientists and researchers in America?

    The factories are still in China. The Chinese National scientists and researchers are still here sending all their work product back to China.

    In a month all the Chinese factories will be in full production again. All the Chinese scientists in America will be back in their labs.

    If the China flu was an attack on China’s economy it’s been a complete failure.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @utu
  698. @davidgmillsatty

    Martenson made some reasonable projections at the end of January based on the information that we had then, estimates as to cases and deaths.

    His end February predictions were way off. Either there were as many infections as he forecast, and the lethality was way less, or there were fewer infections and lethality was much greater.

    it is increasingly looking likely that this infection is way less lethal. The trouebl is that Chris has not adjusted his view to the data, but is still carrying on his doomsday predictions.

    Watch one of his Youtube livestreams and you may find out why. Loads of superchat donations. He has a large house and adjacent farmland to maintain. He has never had it so good.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @davidgmillsatty
  699. @Greg Bacon

    Or maybe this the test run for their next batch of weaponized flu, the one that will get many killed and have people lining up for Mr. Know-it-all Bill Gates RFID chipped flu vaccine.

    Yes, it appears that this current epidemic is just being used to test the “systems” before the real McCoy happens, although the real McCcoy could end up being a massive world war.

  700. But we soon published a lengthy article by investigative journalist Whitney Webb providing copious evidence of America’s own enormous biowarfare research efforts,

    Whitney Webb’s analysis on this crisis is the most likely scenario. She has provided Whitehouse and FOIA documents as confirmation.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/ai/
    https://epic.org/foia/epic-v-ai-commission/EPIC-19-09-11-NSCAI-FOIA-20200331-3rd-Production-pt9.pdf
    https://www.unz.com/video/thejimmydoreshow_security-state-using-coronavirus-to-implement-orwellian-nigh/

    • Replies: @annamaria
  701. @Incitatus

    RMB to US exchange rate being such that per rate, stuff in China is generally much cheaper creates much asymmetry for prices in Chinese economy. Products from Japan and West tend to be very expensive when you control for their quality/function. Like, MacDonalds in China can easily “more expensive while still not filling your stomach” compared to food at a Chinese restaurant. And how I bought a pair of shoes for 29 RMB that I wore for a year at the front of a superstore, and I also saw in a mall some Nike/Adidas shoes which were at least 600 RMB, which attracts a ton of American worshipping status whores. Much stuff in Russia per exchange rate is even cheaper than in China by the way, from what I hear. So yes, because the costs of stuff in China is so low in comparison, including labor costs (in China, 20k RMB / month is considered a high salary), even when stuff is sold to American very cheaply by American standards, it still bring in much income by Chinese standards. You can say that the mostly private sector businesses for which US market accounts for much of their revenue would be hurt by restrictions on trade with America, but the rest of China won’t really give a fuck. And those businesses are not really all that powerful in China, they might be rich, but they don’t actually get to influence politics and important decisions. What the Chinese government would need to manage is how to keep the laid off workers from those businesses fed and clothed and lodged and out of trouble while they find their next source of income. In today’s day, providing people with the most basic necessities of life is not difficult, especially for a mostly self-sufficient industrial giant like China. Those with stakes in those businesses can lose money, but people with major stakes in private businesses aren’t ones who will have trouble feeding themselves so the Chinese government can simply ignore them. They’ll have to do something else with the capital that remains to their name, or they can also not do anything for a while. On the other hand, American people and businesses will lose a major source of cheap and sufficient quality products that they depend on for real; it will definitely hurt the American economy more.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Thanks: Miro23
  702. @Rurik

    “• No one yet knows for certain how the virus started, of even if it was created, or appeared naturally”

    For that matter, no one knows for certain whether this “novel coronavirus” even exists and/or is the cause of any illness in humans. Those who have decided to believe in this dreadful new plague can’t be dissuaded.

    Today, Lew Rockwell revealed that he too is onboard. He wrote:

    “The brilliant physicist Ron Unz, who has time and time again been proved right by events, makes this case in a scintillating analysis.”

    This makes me think that the real pandemic is a media driven panic spreading like a virus.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Rurik
  703. @anon8383892

    I think you have a big problem. You are not even smart enough or well educated enough to realise that AnonFromTN actually knows what he’s talking about. You don’t have to take his ethnic or political prejudices about Ukraine so seriously….😎

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  704. @Miro23

    Education is my profession and I checked my 1973 dissertation’s conclusions a few weeks ago. The first was that whatever problems American education was then facing (we were #1 in the world) would not be fixed and that decline was inevitable. The reason I advanced for this was the politicization of American education.

    But your list suggests that there were and are more subtle reasons, since most of those countries don’t permit so much amateur interference in the process.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  705. @Donald Quixote

    Wikipedia really need a system where fuckers can’t rewrite or erase history. As most of the retarded public gets info from it when they Google.

    It is not desperation, it is just narrative control at work. When all the sources tell you the same info, I don’t blame them for believing it.

    It is 1000% more effective than the Chinese firewall. American propaganda is at least 5 decades ahead of the Chinese counterpart.

  706. @Gaius Gracchus

    Not often that I read through something as fully expounded as that on UR without an immediate quibble or objection. I don’t say that I now know the truth but I am impressed. Thanks.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  707. Anon[759] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    What you say cannot be discounted out of hand. It should be thoroughly investigated buy who can be trusted?

  708. utu says:
    @Ray Caruso

    “dumb American patriotism” – Not, that’s not it. He is not American. He is not even real Canadian. He is in his vent on Ron Unz phase.

  709. @Alden

    As just another paid advertising man for the PRC, let me try to answer your question, “If America created and then sprinkled the virus around Wuhan to destroy the Chinese economy, why didn’t the evil Americans just move all American manufacturing back to America and deport all the Chinese scientists and researchers in America?”

    Sprinkling viruses around China (which we began in 1951) is cheap and could, if we get lucky, cripple its economy and make it an international pariah.

    Just moving all American manufacturing back to America and deporting all the Chinese scientists and researchers in America is expensive because it would wipe out 35% of American corporations profits and 30% of its research ability. Besides, no US Government has that kind of leverage over US corporations for it is they who pay for election campaigns.

    So all the Chinese factories are in full production again and all the Chinese scientists in America will soon be back in their labs because the China flu attack on China’s economy has been a complete failure–like our attacks on Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran….

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Sean
    , @Alden
  710. 450.org says:

    To add another coincidence to the mounting, nay overflowing, list of coincidences, there is the issue of the ventilators. The cabal using Trump as its foil has refused to release the ventilators to the various states and locales pleading for them. Why? Perhaps because they know the ventilators are of no use and you know what, they’re right. The ventilators are killing people rather than curing them. The majority of patients who die from this virus, at least the ones who have it in the lungs, are dying of silent hypoxia, not of pneumonia. The muscles that move the lungs are fine and working. As such, the ventilators do more damage than good. Is this why the ventilators have been withheld? Maybe.

    If this is the same cabal, more or less, that did 9/11, it fits. This virus and its many manifestations is too multifaceted and bizarre to be “natural.” It’s like no other virus man has ever experienced or observed. No doubt this is fun for the criminal psychopaths who unleashed it just as 9/11 was fun and a jaunt through the park. Maybe there’s no goal. Maybe now they do it just because they can. They get off on it. An adrenaline rush. Like choking yourself out to see how close you can come to death before resuscitation. Criminal psychopaths left unchecked are certainly more than capable of such diabolical treachery.

    Also, foil or not, Trump seems to have immunity. He’s been exposed many times over and nothing. Nada. Despite hundreds of millions or perhaps billions around the world hoping, pleading and praying that he contracts it and it finishes him off. He truly is the REAL Teflon Don, not that imposter John Gotti.

  711. utu says:
    @Miro23

    China’s PISA score is Shanghai score.

    http://ncee.org/2020/01/are-chinas-pisa-scores-believable-a-different-view/
    Years ago, when it was announced that the OECD had agreed to let the Chinese province of Shanghai participate…

    Nor did the OECD try to hide the fact that the score was for Shanghai, not all of China.

    But one can hardly say that, because it was only Shanghai, it should not have been reported. Shanghai is both a city and a province of China and has a population of about 24 million people.

    It should be reported as PISA score for Shanghai not for China because that what it is. OECD does not try to hide it but still reports it as China score in all graphs and tables it produces. Shanghai is mentioned somewhere there in a fine print, So all kinds of shills like Godfree Roberts have an extra talking point, another slide they can beat you over the head with.

    • Replies: @TT
  712. Anonymous[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Lew Rockwell and the paleo-libertarians cucked out over twenty years ago after Rothbard’s death. Controlled opposition just like Ron. Wonder if Lew caught the discussion of Rothbard and holocaust revisionism last summer; bet he wouldn’t think Ron was so brilliant then!

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  713. @Godfree Roberts

    The striking thing about the extremely lucid amuse boucher as you no doubt accidentally misspell it, is its sanity. But it was written in 1986. Where are we at now with Vitamin C as an anti cancer treatment?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  714. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ryan2

    Basically, the alt-right went from correctly disbelieving anything the US government says, to idiotically believing anything non-US governments say. The possibility that the US government is using the Chinese government to lie for it completely escapes their ideologically scrambled minds.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  715. annamaria says:
    @Jon Baptist

    They all are coming together — the CIA /Pentagon and Silicon Valley ‘woke liberals’ — for a promise of hefty profit.

  716. @Godfree Roberts

    My principal reason – absent any relevant scientific expertise – for rejecting the idea that some American Deep State loonies were responsible – or even just that American employed loonies did it – is that it is so stupid and bizarre that it would have to be a Black Swan event, a complete outlier in terms of probability distribution. No more likely I guess than that US or Israeli plotters of 9/11 would include the destruction of WTC 7 in their plan for which they wanted Arab hijackers to be blamed.

    Yes, OK, almost anything is literally possible.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  717. utu says:
    @Alden

    “…why didn’t the evil Americans just move all American manufacturing back to America and deport all the Chinese scientists and researchers in America.” – Because not all American are as evil as you, yet. But after several more months of the epidemic American vox populi will be crying to do exactly what you think and the pressure to do it will be high enough for the weaker faction that planned and advocated it will be able to win over the stronger faction that benefits from the status quo. The stronger faction also wants to weaken China but by subjugating its financial institutions I=n quite and suave way without harsh words and saber rattling. The two factions are not really at odds; they just differ on means.

    On January 13 Chinese Vice Premier Liu He signed the trade deal with Trump in which among others China promised that it will open itself to American financial institutions:

    The deal signed Wednesday clears some of the obstacles that have prevented U.S. banks, credit-card networks, insurance companies and investors from doing business in China. … It also gives U.S. distressed-debt investors more access to the Chinese market, allowing them to buy troubled loans from China’s state-owned banks. – WSJ

    but it was too little too late. “Anushka has already spilled the oil.” The coronavirus was already raging in China.

  718. 450.org says:

    Vitamin C? Pfft. Lysol & Light is all you need. Just ask the Prince of Darkness himself. The Buffoon in Chief.

    They blew JFK’s head off for being a moral statesman, yet they put Trump in office and are protecting him. For what? For this? If this in and of itself is not proof enough that these rogues are criminal psychopaths, nothing can and will serve as proof.

    In honor of Dr. Trump’s latest prescription to cure the virus, I bring you The Fifth Dimension, because surely this reality is at least The Fifth Dimension if not beyond.

    Don the Con, the Snake Oil Salesman he is, has implored us all to let the sunshine in. And nothing shines brighter than that which precipitates mushroom clouds — the ultimate disinfectant for this virus and the ultimate disinfectant for all life.

  719. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Not often that I read through something as fully expounded as that on UR without an immediate quibble or objection.

    Well, that’s true.

    For you of all people to endorse without question such an unsubstantiated – not a single citation! – narrative is remarkable. (Are you sock puppeteering again?)

    A further indication that your prolific graffiti here is cover for the bipartisan Establishment now desperately scapegoating China.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  720. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Anything that was going to infect all of China would infect the whole world unless it was only able to infect ethnic Chinese. Anyone who created the virus would have tested it and know it did not infect only ethnic Chinese before they released it in China. So it does not make sense to think it was any kind of a deliberate bioweapon attack.

    The only way it could make sense for the US or a cabal within it to attack China with COVID-19 would be it they thought the US could cope with a lockdown better than China. But China had had lockdowns over SAARs and was a totalitarian state with very little dissent, while the US is politically divided and has an individualist ethos than runs deep in its population. The logical prediction would have been China would cope well with a COVID-19 epidemic and America would fail to.

    If COVID-19 was not tested but just expected to be like the damp squib SARS, how could those using it on China expect it to damage China to any appreciable extent?

  721. utu says:
    @Incitatus

    “…with currency exchange mischief..” – Hypocritical accusations by America. In principle any sovereign country can set its exchange rate. And marked will sort it out according to the precepts of American state religion. People are trying in goods which they ned or want and money is only a tool. If China does not want or does not need American goods it must be respected unless we are back to Commodore Perry opening Japan and British forcing opium on China.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  722. @Ron Unz

    How do you confirm that someone has been infected with the Coronavirus? From what I have read there is no accurate test for Coronavirus in the field . How do you test for the Coronavirus in the lab after an autopsy ?

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
    • Replies: @Jon Baptist
  723. Pepe Escobar’s April 22 article at

    http://thesaker.is/what-did-u-s-intel-really-know-about-the-chinese-virus/

    and the interview of Colonel Vladimir Kvachkov at

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2vqjBtnltI&feature=youtu.be

    in my opinion form a revelatory dynamic duo in regard to both who dunnit and overview/geo-political context…

    The Kvachkov interview was from a month ago. He includes the depopulation agenda. Perhaps some here recall F. William Engdahl’s description of the ‘Good Club’: his words were to the effect that the ‘club’ was a bunch of billionaires getting together to obsess over killing off most of us commoners. Many other examples of this theme – Kissinger’s infamous NS study memorandum and the Georgia Guide stones included.

    In my previous missive in this thread, I mentioned the rather murky 5G ( being touted for its AI wonders and investment wonders, with its impact on well-being seemingly irrelevant, and its capacity for being weaponized both directly and indirectly not part of the public relations discussion, and being rapidly/frantically installed broadly) connection to all this. So I repeat:

    “that tiny San Marino, enclosed by Italy, boasted of being the European leader in the rollout of 5G technology, and is now the world leader in corona virus deaths per million, by a long shot (San Marino with 1179 deaths per million as of today compared to second place Spain with 455 per million, and yes, Spain has been among the most ambitious countries in rolling out 5G in many cities. And Wuhan was the very poster ‘child’ of 5G. Just saying.)”

  724. 450.org says:

    Who would have thought, Michigan and New York are world leaders in rolling out 5G.

  725. @anonymous

    Hitherto I have assumed you were a nerdy obsessive with a pass degree. Now I wonder about that pass if your fees weren’t paid by a rich potential benefactor of your college. A harsh sneer? No, justified, when only the knave or fool explanations are available for your “endorse without question” accusation against me. Did you even read to the end of my very short compliment to the lucid commenter?
    Moreover, if you even took your petty obsession with my comments seriously you would know that I had attacked both the theory that it was done by Americans and by the Chinese with malice.
    Stick to the kiddy league.

  726. Seraphim says:

    ‘San Marino with 1179 deaths per million as of today’?

    Sounds indeed impressive. But when you look at the real figures it is less. For a population app. 33,700, cases 501, death 40, recoveries 63.

    • Replies: @Robert Snefjella
  727. @Wizard of Oz

    We are behind where we were in 1986. Read Pharma, Greed, Lies, and the Poisoning of America, by Gerald Posner to understand why. It also throws considerable light on efforts to produce Coronavirus vaccines. An excellent read.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  728. @Sean

    You are thinking rationally again. The US has been using biowarfare and conventional for generations without blowback so why not try it again? It justifies the billions spent on labs, etc., and that’s all the justification that’s needed.

    • Replies: @Sean
  729. @Sean

    Have you ever known logic–or even long-term self-interest–to affect US foreign policy? Even once?

    We’ve been conducting biowarfare on Cuba, just 60 miles from our shore, for 50 years without suffering any consequences, so what could go wrong if we pulled the same stunt on China?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  730. Alfred says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Montagnier … is, something of what most scientists would consider a crackpot believer in homeopathy.

    The reality is that homeopathy works for a lot of people. The fact that Big Pharma can pay lots of “scientists” to deride it is irrelevant.

    Lots of things “work” but “scientists” prefer to pretend otherwise or to ignore it. A good example is telepathy. There is massive statistical proof that it works much more often than randomness would predict. But try to engage any university “scientist” in a discussion about it and he will insist that it does not work and lose his cool.

    You are merely demonstrating that you have a closed mind – but you showed that in our earlier discussion about Churchill. 🙂

    Rupert Sheldrake 2017, Goldsmiths, University of London: The Extended Mind

    [MORE]

    • LOL: utu
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  731. @Godfree Roberts

    Tell us about bio warfare on Cuba. I start with the observation that infecting Cubms, other than a few leaders, with diseases would get a lot of Cubans in America offside unless they hated all family who were still in Cuba. So, presumably, it would be crop and livestock diseases. Can you supply the detail?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  732. Rurik says:
    @Twodees Partain

    How did Dr. Fauci know in 2017, that “there will be a surprise outbreak” during Trump’s administration?

    Has anyone bothered to ask him how he knew that?

    If someone like Kissinger, had said in a very serious demeanor and on camera- as Bush II was being inaugurated, that ‘America will suffer a surprise attack during Bush’s term’, wouldn’t that strike some people as curious? Especially after it happened?!

    Even today, with most thoughtful people realizing that 9/11 was a false flag, intended (beyond the Eternal Wars) to end our Constitutional freedoms and protections from government intrusions, and allow for Total surveillance and NDAA rendition of American citizens and a new ‘America’ that runs a permanent torture facility..

    I hope people can forgive some of us, if we’re just a little skeptical of what our government and media tell us, especially since what it amounts to, is that we all have to sacrifice the last remaining shreds of ‘our freedoms’, and get used to curfews and ‘lock down’ orders and being told that for now, we’re permitted to go outside our houses and apartments, with stipulations.

    Consider.. the exact same people who conceived and perpetrated 9/11, are effectively the exact same people (((media)) and deepstate and the re-ascendant neocons, et al) who’re telling us to obey them without question, because they’re trying to keep us all safe.

    Even Giuliani was on TV recently explaining how you get people used to this ‘incrementally’, like he did after 9/11, in order to get them all used to it.

    “• No one yet knows for certain how the virus started, or even if it was created, or appeared naturally”

    I guess this is still the case, but it seems to me that whatever the truth is behind it, they’re using it to maximum effect. They want to keep us all safe. Just like they did after 9/11.

    We just have to trust them, and submit to them and obey them, and we’ll all be safe. Like China.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Twodees Partain
  733. @Alfred

    The reality is that homeopathy works for a lot of people.

    Ever heard of placebo effect? It is pretty big with many medications, particularly neurological drugs and painkillers. That’s how homeopathy works. Prayer works, too, the same way.

    • Agree: annamaria, Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Alfred
  734. Adam3 says:

    This is interesting, I think that the virus could have originated from either China or the USA but the USA ‘elites’ could have more to gain. I think it’s also possible that they and many other governments were colluding for this whole event.

    I think that if a lockdown was necessary then yes it was done too late to make a big difference, yet I’m not sure the evidence shows a lockdown was truly necessary and perhaps implying ‘we didn’t act fast enough’ this time could set a dangerous precedent for every flu season to come.

  735. @Godfree Roberts

    I’ve read Gerald Posner’s Wikipedia entry – unexpurgated for the moment – and I can believe it’s an excellent read though mostly, I understand, about the Sacklers. But how trustworthy is it? The accusations of plagiarism and misquoting are numerous and weighty. And what would our host say about a Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone “case closed” verdict in his book “Case Closed”?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  736. @Seraphim

    The word “impressive” is quite malleable, depending on the person.

    Considering the figures you present re San Marino, (population app. 33,700, deaths 40), here are three countries with comparable deaths from, or associated with, COVID-19:

    Lithuania with 2.7 million people with 40 deaths; Cuba with population 11.3 million and 43 deaths; Thailand with 70 million people and 50 deaths.

    If not impressed, try puzzled.

  737. Alfred says:
    @utu

    So for NYC it would be more than 3. Say, Ro=4 the you need 75% prevalence.

    That is not at all how herd immunity works. We are not like battery chickens.

    A few people interact with a great many others every day – school kids, checkout clerks at supermarkets, ticket collectors, general practitioners, prostitutes, nail artists, hairdressers and so on.

    Many more people interact with very few others.

    Those who interact a lot are usually young. They will be the first to get infected and the first to recover (or die). After that, they become “insulators” and no matter how many groceries they handle or tickets they collect, they will not transmit the infection.

    Once you have truly understood the above, you will realise that the infection will peter out when far less than 50% of the population has antibodies – even for a highly-infectious disease.

    [MORE]

    • Troll: utu
  738. @9/11 Inside job

    “How easy it is to make people believe a lie and how hard it is to undo that work again!” – Mark Twain
    https://americanenglish.state.gov/files/ae/resource_files/chapter_11_twain.pdf

    The current public perception of events now is exactly as it was after Sept. 11th. The majority of people around the world believe the narrative presented by mass media. It is a problem that most of us lock into a mindset and anchor ourselves into an injected line of thought. That is MSM’s primary reason why they are able to pacify and fearmonger the public at the same time.

    Unz’s calculations regarding documented and predicted pandemic deaths are way off. He doesn’t negate corrupted numbers in his line of thinking and that’s a fact. Pride and anchoring are huge problems with humans in general when confronting issues and it prevents our minds from re-calibrating to address problems that are blatantly obvious.

    However, to his credit, Unz mentions Whitney Webb in his Pravda article and gives her a platform to publish. That is an incredibly good thing. She is a top-tier journalist.
    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/techno-tyranny-how-the-us-national-security-state-is-using-coronavirus-to-fulfill-an-orwellian-vision/
    https://www.unz.com/author/whitney-webb/
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/podcast-whitney-webb-coronavirus-mass-surveillance/266905/

    http://www.vernoncoleman.com/
    Dr. Vernon Coleman – Coronavirus scare – the hoax of the century?

  739. Alfred says:
    @Tsar Nicholas

    I watched Martenson a few times. He obviously has a vested interest in scaring as many people as possible. The doom-laden background music at the beginning of each episode is ample proof that he is no scientist. He is a quack. His videos have done immense harm to the peace of mind of a great many people. The more people he terrifies, the more money he garners.

    He reminds me a lot of the people trying to make a stampede for the buying of gold. These people wait until the sheep have raised the price and then sell heavily on margin.

    Martenson is real scumbag. 🙁

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  740. whodat says:
    @Mustapha Mond

    How does one advance in this chess game of international geopolitics?
    Be bold, generate pearl harbors to push the country in the desired direction.
    WWII. want war against Germany? Germany allied with Japan, provoke the hell out of Japan to get a attack – voila!

    Want a war against Israeli strategic foes? Somehow get Islamic attack on the twin towers and we how have a boogie man, Patriot Act , attack Iraq with Saudi blessing to position troops surrounding chief Israeli enemy Iran and Hezbollah,– Pearl Harbor!!

    Want to find some way to turn around the Chinese ascendancy in manufacturing and the thriving economy? Need another Pearl Harbor (Always the same plan) Wuhan. How we can reclaim manufacturing back to the US and turn around the momentum of Chinese manufacturing dominance. Pearl Harbor!

    These Pearl Harbors hurt the US too but – hell I don’t say we won’t get our hair mussed.

    • Replies: @whodat
  741. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    But the author of the peace we are commenting on says a bioweapon attack on China is consistent with a certain logic.

    So for three years in a row, China had been severely impacted by strange new viral diseases, though only the most recent had been deadly to humans. This evidence was merely circumstantial, but the pattern seemed highly suspicious. … American biowarfare attack against China might have seemed the only remaining card to play in hopes of maintaining American supremacy. Plausible deniability would minimize the risk of any direct Chinese retaliation, and if successful, the terrible blow inflicted to China’s economy would set it back for many years, perhaps even destabilizing its social and political system

    To use a completely novel and vaccine-less disease of humans that is transmitted so easily as COVID-19 is, and thus so multiplicatively contagious that one infection could spread to the entire world’s population within a few months might be the card to play against an immediate problem. But sustained decline in US power over decades rather than a short term prospect of destruction is what our host says the US faces. All the current elite will be dead or in their dotage by the time the US is overtaken by China (and their private investments and retirement finances cannot be assumed to be isolated from the Chinese economy).

    It justifies the billions spent on labs, etc., and that’s all the justification that’s needed.

    They did not spend a dime on having a vaccine for COVID-19 before putatively using it, despite the obvious advantages of having protection for the US (and themselves personally) before using COVID-19 to help the US against China. So the means would be illogical even if the objective of clipping China’s wings can understood as sort of rational. You cannot have it both ways by saying the decision making process was discernibly sane, but the method of accomplishing it was surreal.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  742. “we have seen to our dismay how a major outbreak can so easily wreck our entire economic life.”

    The controlled demolition of the corrupt and crashing financial markets has caused this “wreck of our economic life”. The virus is the cover up.

    It looks like the virus was released just after the repo market crash in Sep 2019. The fed started fire hosing money into the banking system, cooking the books and keeping it afloat for a few months. The virus hit center stage just in time to distract everyone from the financial corruption and the embezzlement of $billions from the American people in Q1 2020.

    The whole nature of this so called pandemic has a military feel. I wonder if we are dupes in a war game, or maybe we are already at war.

  743. whodat says:
    @whodat

    A great memorable quote from the Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop … They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought.

  744. @Wizard of Oz

    You don’t have to take his ethnic or political prejudices about Ukraine so seriously

    As a matter of fact, I have several things against Ukrainian wannabe Nazis. I agree with the point Beckow regularly makes here – they are hopeless morons. However, from my perspective they are not just morons, they are also criminals. I have several personal issues with them.

    First, my father fought real Nazis in WWII. Got two wounds (one pretty bad) and several decorations.

    Second, Ukrainian military committed numerous war crimes in Donbass. Some of them directly concern me. The school I went to in Lugansk was hit by a Ukie bomb. The library where I borrowed books when I was in school was hit by a Ukie shell. The windows of my mother’s apartment were shattered by a Ukie shell exploding nearby. Her apartment was on the third floor of 60-apartment building located in the area with 40-50 multi-apartment building, two schools, several kindergartens, half-a-dozen stores, two pharmacies, and nothing else. Armed Donbass freedom fighters never even visited this area. Ukie bastards were targeting civilians and knew it full well. After that I had to evacuate my 90-years old mother from Lugansk to TN (naturally, via Moscow).

    Last, but not least, by their stupid and criminal actions they defame everything Ukrainian. Being half-Ukrainian, I deeply resent that. They even defamed Ukrainian language. My mother tongue is Russian (like that of ~75% of Ukraine residents, including its current puppet “president” and the previous one), but I speak Ukrainian better than most self-appointed Ukrainian “patriots”. It is a beautiful language, and now the scum made it a sign of idiocy.

    • Replies: @FB
  745. Alfred says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Ever heard of placebo effect?

    That is laughable. What makes you think that the placebo effect does not work for expensive medications produced by pharmaceutical companies?

    I would imagine that something that comes in a coloured capsule or that has a foul taste would work better than something that is tasteless and that looks like water.

    Anyway, if placebos work so well, why don’t doctors prescribe it more often. 😂

    How about telepathy? Why don’t you tell me that it does not work?

    The truth is that you are avoiding things that are inexplicable with today’s knowledge.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  746. @Alfred

    What makes you think that the placebo effect does not work for expensive medications produced by pharmaceutical companies?

    Did I say that it doesn’t? Many medications pharmaceuticals make a lot of money on have no more than placebo effect. What’s more, when there is generic (say, aspirin), buying brand name is downright stupid: it contains exact same thing, just costs more. That’s another scam of pharmaceuticals to improve their bottom line.

    if placebos work so well, why don’t doctors prescribe it more often

    FYI, placebo is “effective” when the patient believes that s/he is getting medication. So, you can’t prescribe placebo, as in this case the patient would know the truth.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  747. @Biff

    “the most powerful propaganda machine in the history of propaganda”

    The propaganda begins in childhood where our government controlled schools brainwash the kids into believing Abraham Lincoln killed half a million of his own people to do something nice for someone else. What a swell guy. Yes, that is what war is about – doing something nice for someone else.

    • LOL: Biff
  748. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks for that personal perspective…

    I salute you for taking care of your elderly mother…I’m sure she is happy to be with her son…

  749. Gegula says:

    “…small military operation of that period, the 1999 NATO air war against Serbia, intended to safeguard the Kosovo Albanians from ethnic cleansing and massacre, a Clinton Administration project that I fully endorsed.”

    Small, you say. Michael Parenti, who unlike you was paying attention at the time your “small military operation” – that actually was illegal war of aggression against sovereign nation done without UN mandate – describes quite differently:

    “US/NATO forces delivered round-the-clock terrorist bombings upon Yugoslavia for two-and-a-half months in 1999, targeting housing projects, private homes, hospitals, schools, state-owned factories, radio and television stations, government owned hotels, municipal power stations, water supply systems, and bridges, along with hundreds of other nonmilitary targets at great loss to civilian life.”

    Not to mention that the real concern was NOT the wellbeing of Kosovo Albanians, whose plight was greatly overblown, but geopolitics of globalization – NATO control of Balkans, setting the new precedents in international politics, unilateral revision of the post WW2 world order, stealing of mineral resources etc. There is so much more that you don’t know. Relying on the rapports of established Western media outlets and all the pundits who were part of the orchestrated campaign will never tell you what we here, in Serbia, have experienced. 15 tons of depleted uranium was scattered all over Serbia in you “small military operation”, you damn idiot.

  750. Alfred says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Let’s say that we agree to disagree. I believe that homeopathy works for some people as does telepathy. You are welcome to think otherwise. 🙂

    I am sorry to hear about your experiences in the Donbass. A region where people from one side think it is courageous to lob shells at civilians who live in their homes in a different part of the region are not living in the same country. It is not a civil war. In a civil war, families divide. This is different. It is two different cultures with differing histories. It would quickly peter out if there was no money in it for the attackers. The fake Ukrainian patriots in Canada should have some skin in the game. If their own houses were to blow up, they would quickly come to their senses.

  751. refl says:
    @Ron Unz

    This has come from Italy now, which might explain the lethality of covid19 – if it is the case, then indeed the problem is malpractice by panicky doctors, but it would take professional expertise to clarify, if the mistake was inevitable (complete google translation behind the MORE-tag):
    https://www.informatoreorobico.it/2020/04/21/palma-problema-principale-non-covid-19-la-reazione-immunitaria-distrugge-le-cellule-virus-entra/

    [MORE]

    “The main problem is not Covid-19, but the immune reaction that destroys the cells where the virus enters.”

    The deaths from covid-19 are not caused by interstitial pneumonia, but by TEP pulmonary thromboembolism, caused by viral inflammation which, in turn, causes high, untreated fever, which destroys everything and prepares the ground for the formation of thrombi. The diagnostic error discovered after 50 autopsies performed on Covid-19 corpses
    (…)
    If this were the case, resuscitations and intubations would be of little use, since it would be necessary, first of all, to implement a timely treatment to dissolve the thrombus and, even better, prevent thromboembolism. “If you ventilate a lung where blood does not reach, it is of no use! In fact, 9 out of 10 patients die, ”explains Palma.
    “Gentlemen, Covid-19 firstly damages the vessels, the cardiovascular system, and only then does it reach the lungs! It is venous microthrombosis, not pneumonia that determines fatality! ”

    As I understand the course of the events, the WHO has been trying to push its pandemic by highlighting the catastrophic lethality of the disease. A more relaxed, professional approach then might have safed lives (but that is now my biased understanding, to be sure). Doctors in overwhelmed hospitals (by panic and austerity, as I see it) could not come to better judgements and took fatal decisions in the early stages of the pandemic. This was already clear from the opinion of Dr. Ioannidis
    In any case, there should be agreement that:
    1) the pandemic has long since exceeded the scale of a medical event and has become a defining political issue worldwide which will have disastrous consequences for the self-image of the Western International comunity, as we know it (to strip civil rights is now an accepted political agenda in the West, to say the least!)
    2) The WHO as the responsible party has a definite interest to justify its reaction and will therefore most likely keep up the tale of an unprecedented natural catastrophe (with the sideshow of a bioweapons attack for the conspiracy nuts). It will be tabu to call this an epic disaster of corruption and incompetence of international institutions.
    3) The question, if there was some deliberate enginering in the sense of conspiracy is the farthest stretch. This view of the affairs will likely gain more followers in the future. For now, I would say, that different parties have agendas and that they make deliberate use of the situation, irresponsibly so, without regard to the damage they might be doing. For example in the US, Corona has become an issue of the War on Trump, as much as of anti-chinese warmongering.

    In any case, this Italian doctor says that Corona should best be treated at home:

    By taking care of it well at home, you avoid not only hospitalization, but also the thrombotic risk.

    What has bothered me all along has been the accepted believe that the pandemic had to include extreme medical meassures and be dealt with in a most expensive way. This bears the fingerprints of Big Pharma and corruption. These people conspired, certainly, and left a mess.

    Palma: “The main problem is not Covid-19, but the immune reaction that destroys the cells where the virus enters.”

    The deaths from covid-19 are not caused by interstitial pneumonia, but by TEP pulmonary thromboembolism, caused by viral inflammation which, in turn, causes high, untreated fever, which destroys everything and prepares the ground for the formation of thrombi. The diagnostic error discovered after 50 autopsies performed on Covid-19 corpses

    April 21, 2020 – Humanitas Research Hospital physician Giampaolo Palma said: “I don’t want to sound excessive, but I believe that today, finally, the cause of Covid-19’s lethality is certain, said Palma.
    “My twenty years of experience in Vascular Echocolordopplergraphy on more than 200 thousand heart and non-cardiac patients, makes me confirm what some supposed, but could not be sure. Today we have the first data: patients go to Resuscitation for Generalized Venous Thromboembolism, especially Pulmonary Thromboembolism TEP.
    If this were the case, resuscitations and intubations would be of little use, since it would be necessary, first of all, to implement a timely treatment to dissolve the thrombus and, even better, prevent thromboembolism. “If you ventilate a lung where blood does not reach, it is of no use! In fact, 9 out of 10 patients die, ”explains Palma.
    “Gentlemen, Covid-19 firstly damages the vessels, the cardiovascular system, and only then does it reach the lungs! It is venous microthrombosis, not pneumonia that determines fatality! ”

    Provisional use of anti-inflammatory and antibiotics

    “And why are thrombi formed? Because inflammation, as per school text, induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism. Then? What scientific literature, especially Chinese, said until mid-March, was that anti-inflammatories should not be used. Now in Italy anti-inflammatories and antibiotics are used (as in the influences) and the number of inpatients collapses. ”
    “Many deaths, even 40 years old, had a history of high fever for 10-15 days that was not treated properly. Here inflammation has destroyed everything and prepared the ground for thrombi formation. Because the main problem is not the virus, but the immune reaction that destroys the cells where the virus enters. In fact, in all Covid departments, rheumatoid arthritis patients never entered and this is because they are on cortisone therapy. ”

    A disease to be treated at home

    “This is the main reason why hospitalizations in Italy begin to decrease and it is becoming a curable disease at home. By taking care of it well at home, you avoid not only hospitalization, but also the thrombotic risk. ”
    “It was not easy to understand why the signs of microembolism have faded, even to the eye of an echocardiographist cardiologist,” continues Palma. “Comparing the data of the first 50 patients between those who breathe badly and those who do not breathe, the situation has appeared very clear to all doctors in Italy, from cardiologists, radiologists, anatomical pathologists to colleagues in Intensive Care.”

    Exit quarantine more quickly

    “The time to publish these data and we could start to get the population out of quarantine, not immediately, but in a shorter time than expected.
    In the USA where anti-inflammatory drugs are still banned, the data are now more tragic than in Italy. They are drugs that cost a few euros but that help save many lives. These are the drugs we make to go on vacation to Kenya and prevent malaria to understand each other, “adds the doctor.

    The medicinal specialties recommended in many Italian hospitals

    “This testimony of vasculitis with pulmonary thromboembolism outcomes appears to be confirmed by the protocols of some other hospitals: they give Clexane to everyone, with predictive D-dimer: the higher the less the patient will respond; at San Gerardo of Monza Clexane and cortisone; at Sant’Orsola in Bologna Clexane to all + protocol shared with family doctors who prescribe Plaquenil to rain on all monosymptomatic patients at home. ”

    Anti-inflammatories that should not be used

    “Intact with a clarification on anti-inflammatories: anti-inflammatory drugs such as Brufen, naproxen, aspirin that inhibit cox1 as well as Cox 2 should not be used, while celecoxib (a selective Cox 2 inhibitor) seems to give good results, however, we must wait for the results of studies instead, this analysis highlights the need to use a high dose low molecular weight heparin in the intermediate stages of the disease (beginning of the cough and before breathing difficulties …) (Clexane 8,000 IU / day). ”
    “I avoid (in order not to make the exposition too heavy, and because the text is too medical) to report an interesting testimony from an anatomical pathologist: just think that the” Pope John XXIII “of Bergamo performed 50 autopsies and the” Sacco ”of Milan 20 (the Italian one is the highest case series in the world, the Chinese have made only 3 and“ minimally invasive ”). Everything that comes out seems to fully confirm the above information, ”concludes Palma.

    • Thanks: Miro23
    • Replies: @FB
  752. Miro23 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The list conflicts with the consensus on places like Switzerland and the Netherlands, but I don’t doubt that it’s right.

    Also, the US is going down, but it’s still doing suprisingly well despite the politicization and the deadweight sub-performance of Blacks and Latinos pulling down the average.

  753. Ron Unz says:

    I’d like to emphasize that this is NOT article or a thread intended to debate Flu Hoax nonsense, and comments along those lines are unlikely to be published.

    But for any crazy Flu Hoaxers hanging around here, here’s an excellent Financial Times chart courtesy of MoA, showing the total weekly deaths in Britain for nearly the last 50(!) years:

    Perhaps my eyes are deceiving me, but the impact of the Coronavirus sure doesn’t look like “the Flu” to me…

  754. What’s hilarious here (and revealing) is that all the Team China retards are worried about what the US claims happened at Tiananmen 30 years ago, but they don’t say shit about the social credit system today.

    • Replies: @FB
  755. jonswift says:
    @Ozymandias

    Me thinks Ozy doth work for the C.I.A., but maybe not on purpose.

  756. FB says: • Website
    @refl

    Interesting…

    I did a brief lookup because I didn’t know what a thrombus was…and it’s a blood clot…when it forms in your lungs, it’s a pulmonary embolism…

    If I understand this correctly, these clots form in your lungs as a result of the fever, which itself is a reaction of the immune system to destroy the virus…

    But not sure exactly how the fever spurs the formation of these blood clots…after all, a typical fever does not do that…

    So something is different here…

    Hopefully our own ER physician ‘Scalpel’ will check in with some actual knowledge of the subject…

    This story was actually reported a couple of weeks ago…

    https://www.ibtimes.sg/new-fact-reason-coronavirus-lethality-heart-problem-not-lungs-says-italian-doctor-42838

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @refl
  757. geokat62 says:
    @Gegula

    There is so much more that you don’t know.

    You can say that again! Ever hear of the Balkan Action Committee? No? Neither did I until I read Prof. Stephen Sniegoski’s The Transparent Cabal:

    Finally, in 1999, President Clinton orchestrated the NATO war on Serbia, as a result of the Serbs alleged “ethnic cleansing” of Muslims in their province of Kosovo. While Clinton limited American actions to air strikes, neoconservatives went beyond Clinton in calling for the use of ground troops. Members of the interventionist Balkan Action Committee, which advocated NATO ground troops for Kosovo, included such prominent neoconservative mainstays as Richard Perle, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Max M. Kampelman, Morton Abramowitz, and Paul Wolfowitz. Other announced proponents of a tougher war included Eliot Cohen, Elliott Abrams, John Bolton, William Kristol, William Kagan, and Norman Podhoretz.

    You may ask yourself: why would a bunch of neocons be so interested in pushing for a NATO attack on Serbia?

    The good professor explains:

    The attack on Serbia, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons, provided the intellectual groundwork for the attack on Iraq, since it set the precedent of violating international law’s prohibition against initiating offensive wars.

    As I’ve repeatedly stated: amazing how many things come into sharper focus when one looks at the world through the prism of Jewish Supremacist Power.

    • Agree: Rurik
    • Replies: @Rurik
  758. FB says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    And of course you have the complete ‘scoop’ on the social credit system…?

    So please do inform me how it works…?

    And why it’s such a bad idea…?

    My own understanding [naturally far inferior to your own peer review level ‘knowledge’], is that it mostly rewards citizens who do GOOD things…

    Ie volunteering…being honest in dealings with fellow citizens etc…

    Let me tell you a little story…when I take my vehicle for servicing at the dealer [a fitting name for this type of criminal enterprise]…I never forget to bring some PETROLEUM JELLY, so the reaming will be less painful…

    On one occasion I was so outraged that I insisted the service manager show me the shop time alloted by the manufacturer for this repair in the official book…I already knew what it was since I had got into the habit of telephoning the manufacturer head office and requesting this information BEFORE taking my vehicle in…

    This info isn’t on the Internet…and the allowable repair time is usually a range, in subdivisions of tenths of an hour…for instance 1.2 to 1.6 hours…

    Considering the high shop rates for some makes of automobiles, these hours can add up to an eye popping bill…

    Now this fucking chiseler was looking me in the eye, with the book open on the counter showing roughly two hours for the repair…but he insisted it would be double that…

    When I said no…he pointed out that my car was already up on the hoist with its STEERING disassembled…he offered to put it back with the old parts that were faulty…OR PAY HIS BLACKMAIL…

    Yeah…I wish we had a social credit system because scumbags like that might not be able to skate so easily…

    My only concern would be that the criminal psyche will find a way to continue his ways…no matter what society does…just as some delinquent children simply cannot be brought into line either by their parents or the authorities…

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @vot tak
  759. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    I love how you guys discredit yourselves simply by opening your fool mouths. Ron’s got a controlled demolition of this website going on to match the one happening in the markets.

  760. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    Thanks for the request FB – any time!

    Abnormal clotting, apparently resulting from endothelial damage, has been described in patients with severe COVID-19 disease,

    https://www.idse.net/Covid-19/Article/03-20/Abnormal-Clotting-and-COVID-19/57893

    In other words, the virus causes direct damage to the interior lining of the blood vessels (endothelium). This exposes proteins which stimulate the body’s clotting mechanisms leading to the problems noted.

    We test for evidence of this process with a test for a protein involved in the clotting mechanism called D-dimer. On the macroscopic level, when the clots continue to grow, they are called venous thromboembolism (VTE)

    Patients with mild disease who are at home likely do not need VTE prophylaxis. Patients in the ICU, and even if on a step-down unit for multiple days, should have pharmacologic prophylaxis if there is not a contraindication.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @FB
    , @Parfois1
  761. moshe says:

    Ron, I give you what I consider to be well-deserved flack for seeming to have anti-semitic beliefs of the darkest and most medieval sort but in addition to other things I’ve given you credit for such as the excellent archives you uploaded (where are they though?) and helping to sponsor Steve and at one point Razib, I’m really happy to give you well deserved credit for continuing to publish people who are Anti Quarantiners even though the beliefs that you hold (held?) were advocating the opposite extreme.

    It’s admirable.

    Thank you.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  762. JT says: • Website
    @utu

    I don’t doubt it for a second, that no such Goldberg exists.

    What exists is the video, and several uncannily accurate predictions.

    Shouldn’t that suffice?

  763. refl says:
    @FB

    A thrombosis is normally known from the legs, where it is visible and can be highy dangerous. A thrombosis inside the body is hardly visible and goes undetected, and as proper autopsies on covid19-victims are hardly performed, they will not get attention.

    [MORE]

    My medical knowledge does not go further than wikipedia, but as I found there, a thrombosis can be caused by medication, lack of movement with patients who are confined to their beds, and above all with inner wounds, as could be expected from an unprofessional use of ventilators. So much for my laymans knowledge, and one would have to ask, if so many doctors in so many hospitals can be that blind to the side effects of their therapy?

    However, this pandemic affair is very much managed top down from the WHO, and how far can this go?

    I found another newsbit that goes in a similar direction of malpractice concearning masks, in this case. From
    https://www.metropolnews.info/mp457845/mundschutzmasken-unbedingt-waschen-wechseln-und-nur-sehr-kurz-tragen
    via google translate:

    According to the current facts, normal, simple face masks do not offer any protection against the virus. This can be checked very easily. The masks become wet and damp due to inhalation and exhalation. This creates a breeding ground for bacteria and viruses, which are then mostly inhaled unfiltered into the lungs.

    The natural regulatory is our nose. It filters many foreign substances that do not belong in the body. However, since we produce a lot more CO2 under the protective mask, we easily get a lack of oxygen. You automatically breathe in and out of your mouth.

    This promotes bronchial diseases. Should these masks protect us?
    I personally see a worsening of the future situation for us through the masks. This important finding and should be transferred to the current situation. Despite the clear findings, why do you want us to wear a face mask? Ask yourself this question consciously.

    Do you want to keep the illusion going in the population? So we continue to get sick? The procedure will inevitably lead to this. After all, who consistently adheres to the government’s recommendation to wash and replace the masks regularly? And what is regular?

    Most people listen to what the government says and don’t question anything. Many do not believe that the federal government could be subject to incorrect assessments. If people continue to get sick, new hotspots will emerge. This causes new bronchial diseases to spread.

    Will you say that the Covid-19 or Covid-20 has broken out?

    Especially in this area we have no real transparency regarding the cause and the case data. The number of deaths is fixed as a Covid-19 deceased.

    Things take place here that do not result in logic. One has to ask the question – why?

    Apart from that, masks recycle your exhaled CO2 into your body. Peculiarly, the first advise to anyone feeling sick normally is to get some fresh air. Now, the opposite!

    So, are the recomended measures likely to generate the next generation of respiratorial disease patients? Are medical experts that incompetent?

    As a bonus, I add this one, that I found today about the now 79-year old Dr Fauci, who started his career with the Aids-virus and is now very much engaged with corona:
    Is this incompetence or is this, how medical research works, or is the article deluded?

    https://journal-neo.org/2020/04/15/the-remarkable-doctor-a-fauci/

    The Remarkable Doctor A. Fauci, by William Engdahl, via New Eastern Outlook

  764. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    prophylaxis refers to prescribing patients blood thinning agents to counteract the clot inducing action of the virus thus attempting to prevent VTE.

  765. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    Great to hear from you Doc…!

    I hope you’re okay, being right on the front lines of the battle…I’ve been thinking about you and hoping you’re safe…

    Thanks for stopping by…are you seeing some scary stuff at the hospital…?

    And what do you think about this thromboembolism stuff…sounds like you’re right on top of it…?

    Thanks for that technical info on this…does this kind of vascular issue also arise with regular flu…and is it a matter of how big a viral load you pick up…?

    I won’t tie up your energy here…at the very least I would think you are exhausted…

    Stay well my friend…☺

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @The Scalpel
  766. @Wizard of Oz

    Everything I read in the book fit with my own observations and with the experiences of people, like Pauling, who went against the Pharma mainstream.

  767. @Sean

    To describe Ron’s surmise about the decision making process as sane is a stretch. Late-stage imperial decision making is notoriously nuts, usually at the level of basic assumptions.

    All the current elite will be dead or in their dotage by the time the US is overtaken by China? No, China has already overtaken the US but we are unaware of the act because our media keep us five years behind events in that country.

    • Replies: @Sean
  768. @CanSpeccy

    I only know what I have heard many times, so much so I presumed it was common knowledge. Something like 60 or 70 per cent. Maybe the common knowledge is not right. If it is not right, what are your ideas of the size of the herd?

  769. @Wizard of Oz

    History of Plagues against Cuba
    http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/CubaSi-January/Bio.html

    Biowar History Time Line
    Allegations of BioWar as compiled by UK solidarity organization, Cuba Si

    Biological war waged by the US against Cuba

    [MORE]

    –1962 A US intelligence agent is known to have given several thousand dollars to a Canadian to introduce a disease infecting Cuban sea-turtles.

    –1965 A plastic balloon descends on a farm in Santiago de las Vegas. When it hits the ground it expels a white dust that spreads to cane plantation which is later destroyed.

    –1968 A foreign specialist working for an international agency is expelled after he is confirmed to have introduced a virus affecting coffee crops.

    –1970 The US is caught seeding clouds over Cuba in an attempt to affect the sugar harvest. The project was part of a larger research plan called “The Cooling” which was intended to devise ways of manipulating the weather for political reasons.

    –1971 African swine fever is introduced. The Cubans claim that the container transporting the virus came from Fort Gullick, a US military base in the Panama Canal Zone. Those involved in this attack have since testified to their part. The entire pig population of Cuba had to be slaughtered.

    –1977 Cane smut is detected in Pilón, eastern Cuba. The disease had never been known in Cuba until this date.

    –1978: A previously unknown variety Blue mould hits the sugar crops causing losses of approximately 344 million pesos.

    –1978: Sugar cane rust affects a new variety of cane imported from Barbados. As a result 1.35 million tonnes of sugar are
    lost.

    –1979-80 Two different strains of African swine fever are discovered emanating from distinct areas of contamination. 300,00 pigs are slaughtered.

    –1981 A previously unknown Bovine skin disease erupts affecting young cows and bullocks throughout the island.

    –1981 A sudden outbreak of haemorrhagic dengue fever affects 350,000 people. 158 people, including children, die from the disease. The disease is later discovered to be exactly the same strain of the disease which caused an outbreak in New Guinea in 1924 but no others in the world except the Cuban case. The outbreak had three initial breeding grounds in Cienfuegos and Camagüey, all very close to international air corridors. Just prior to the outbreak it was discovered that the entire personnel at the Guantanamo naval base had been vaccinated against dengue. As a result there was not a single case of the disease in the base.

    –1981 Haemorraghic conjunctivitis caused by the Enterovirus 70 strain spreads throughout the island. The Pan American Health Organisation is baffled because this strain had never been seen in the entire hemisphere before.

    –1982 The US magazine Covert Action, August 6, 1982, suggests the dengue outbreak might have been a CIA plot.

    –1984 Eduardo Arocena, a counter-revolutionary of Cuban origin and head of the Omega-7 terrorist organisation, stands trial in the US accused of the murder of Felix Garcia Rodriguez, a Cuban diplomat to the UN. Arocena confesses to having introduced ‘germs’ into Cuba as part of the US biological war against Cuba. He affirms that the dengue outbreak was introduced by terrorist groups into the island.

    –1984 An outbreak of dysentery causes the death of 18 children in Guantánamo province. Investigators pin down the start of the outbreak to two workers who had participated in a festive activity inside the Guantánamo naval base. The disease was again of a type previously unknown in Cuba.

    –1985 An infectious bronchitis poultry virus seriously disrupts egg production.

    –1989 Ulcerative mammillitis in dairy cattle caused by a herpes virus spreads throughout the island affecting milk yields.

    –1990 Black sigatoka, infects banana plantations throughout the island. Once again the disease had been hitherto unknown on the island. The disease appeared precisely as Cuba began to put plans into action to start intensive banana production.

    –1991 Acariasis disease which affects bees is discovered, just as Cuban honey starts to be exported.

    –1991 30,000 tobacco seedlings are discovered to be 15 per cent infected with fusorio which once in the soil means tobacco production has to be halted for three years.

    –1992 Black plant louse which carries a citrus disease known as tristeza (sadness) is discovered.

    –1994 Citric sapper blight is found in Pinar del Rio and Camagüey.

    –1993 122,135 rabbits have to be slaughtered after an outbreak of a viral disease.

    –1995 February 10. A camera case in the luggage of a visiting US scientist is found to contain four small test tubes of a biological substance. On examination it is discovered to be the citric tristeza virus.

    –1995 Coffee borer discovered in Granma province. Losses of 80 per cent were attributed to it and considerable resources had to be spent on containing it.

    –1996 Varroasis, another bee disease is diagnosed in three apiaries in Matanzas. Previously unknown in Cuba, this disease is the worst of all affecting honey production.
    –1996 Thrips Palmi attack in Matanzas by State Department plane.

    from http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/CubaSi-January/Bio.html

    BIO-CHEMICAL WAR ON CUBA
    Information from CIABASE files on bio/chem war on Cuba
    _________________________________________________________________

    Ralph McGehee, CIABASE
    Source: alt.politics.org.cia

    *

    BIOLOGICAL WAR

    chemical war. covert action information bulletin (now covert
    action quarterly) 17:2-31; 18:58,59; 21:29,30; 22:16, 35;
    25::3,7,26. “germ warfare disinformation,” 16:60,58; “the history
    of U.S. bio-chemical killers,” 17:5-7; “U.S. biological warfare:
    the 1981 Cuba dengue epidemic” 17:28-31. in afghanistan 17:13,
    17,28; in Cuba 17:28-31; in korea 17:6-7; in laos 17:12

    Cuba. Details CIA efforts to avoid destroying offensive
    biologicals ordered by pres. nixon. also cites article in the
    1/9/77 issue of the Washington Post ” CIA linked to 71 swine
    virus in Cuba.” BCAS v12, #4 1980 p11-17

    Cuba, 69-70 a U.S. officer passed a vial of african swine
    fever virus to a terrorist group. six weeks later Cuba suffered
    the first outbreak of swine fever in the western hemisphere; pig
    herds were decimated. richelson, j.t. (1985). the U.S.
    intelligence community 231

    Cuba, 71 anti-Castro group releases anti-swine virus in
    Cuba and Cuban gvt forced to kill 500,000 pigs. CIA agents
    delivered sealed container that contained virus to Cuban group in
    ft. gurlick, panama canal zone. CIA paramilitary center helped
    train members in pm ops. minnick, w. (1992). spies and
    provacateurs 262

    Cuba, 72-82 Cuban officials charge that the CIA infected
    Cuban pigs with african swine fever in the early 70s and again in
    the early 80s. also the us introduced mosquitos that carried
    bleeding dengue into Cuba in 81. hundreds of thousands became ill
    and 150 died. the nation 8/27/83 135

    Cuba, 78-87 CIA contacted dr. eduardo sagaro gonzalez
    while he taking a medical course in mexico in 78. sagaro traveled
    to mozambique in 79 where he recruited and close to douglas james
    smith, the cos in maputo. CIA wanted info on fidel’s health and
    info on pesticide reserves to combat the dengue epidemic. CIA
    also had asked another agent many questions relating to bio and
    chemical war. CIA convinced manufacturer of containers for
    fumigating (dengue fever) mosquitoes to make them without a head
    of fumigator – rendering them useless. ridenour, r. (1991). back
    fire: the CIA’s biggest burn 77

    Cuba, 79-82 when CIA agent davidson left Cuba he
    instructed officers bruce timpton and richard brennan to keep in
    touch with agronomist lopez nunez. they asked for samples of
    tobacco leaves. ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the CIA’s biggest
    burn 78

    Cuba, 79 orlando argudin lopez, aka oscar aka rolando was
    told by his CIA handler in paris in 79 that CIA was introducing
    diseases to affect people and animals. ridenour, r. (1991). back
    fire: the CIA’s biggest burn 74

    Cuba, 81 300,000 people had dengue fever. two years
    earlier swine fever devastated the island nation. entire tobacco
    crop attacked by mildew; sugar cane had fungus. Cuban double
    agents received reporting requirements from CIA re those events.
    top secret 0-88 9-11

    Cuba, 81 dengue fever type 2 broke out in Cuba 2 months
    after CIA query re topic to Cuban double agent maria
    santiesteban. she worked with dse for 11 years and recruited her
    husband, jose alberto puig aka abelardo. ridenour, r. (1991).
    back fire: the CIA’s biggest burn 71

    Cuba, 93 Cuba said an epidemic affecting eyesight – optic
    neuritis – may have been deliberately introduced from abroad.
    washington times 5/1/93 a2

    Cuba, 95-97 Cuba showed a u.n. meeting against biological
    weapons, pictures of a U.S. op to plague Cuba with a crop-eating
    pest and called for an international investigation. it is the
    first time the biological weapons convention is dealing with a
    complaint under a 1991 provision that lets a nation that believes
    it has come under biological attack seek an investigation. a u.n.
    meeting on Cuba’s charges ended inconclusively in geneva. in
    talks held under a cold war-era treaty which bans biological
    weapons but lacks a verification mechanism, havana failed to get
    the investigation it wanted and washington was unable to close
    the matter. johnpike fas.org 9/2/97

    Cuba, 96-97 Cuba said the us government unleashed biowar
    against Cuba. granma newspaper provided a map of us state
    department aircraft’s trajectory over Cuba last october 21st, the
    date of the first appearance of the thrips palmi insect plague in
    western and central Cuba, and the dates of Cuba’s official note
    of protest to the us interests section in havana as well as the
    response to that protest. on 2/12/97 — the us interests section
    said the sr2 aircraft, turned on its smoke generator to warn a
    nearby Cuban commercial airliner of its presence in the region.
    the sr2 used by the state department for the fumigation of drug
    crops is known to have two dispersion systems: one for aerosols
    and liquid particles, and one for solid particles, but is not
    known to carry a smoke generator. the Cuban pilot who spotted the
    aircraft, and who has experience in fumigation said that the us
    aircraft did not launch smoke, but rather a substance. rhc
    radiohc.org 5/7/97

    Cuba, 96 note 4/28/97 from Cuba to u.n. secretary-general
    re the thrips palmi plague. on 10/21/96, at 10.08 hours, crew
    members of (Cuban airlines), saw a single-engine airplane
    apparently spraying or sprinkling unknown substances – some seven
    times. located 25 to 30 kilo metres south of varadero. the flight
    was a fumigation aircraft model sar, register n3093m, operated by
    the state department. the airplane had taken off from patrick air
    force base, bound for grand cayman. the Cubana pilot reported to
    flight control the release of unknown substances, in the form of
    a white or greyish mist, by the sar airplane. 12/18/96, the first
    signs of thrips plague appeared in matanzas province. after a
    protest note on 2/12/97, the us interest section in havana,
    stated, the pilot had, during his flight, seen a Cuban commercial
    airplane flying below, and as he was not certain of having seen,
    “following caution and safety procedures,” and with the purpose
    of securing a positive visual contact, the pilot used the “smoke
    generator” of his aircraft, in order to “indicate its location”
    adding that “the smoke vanished and no fluid was poured from the
    airplane.” the sar aircraft, register n3093m, is used by the
    state department in the struggle against drug trafficking, to
    destroy crops. the aircraft utilizes two sprinkling systems: one
    for the use of aerosols and liquid particles and another for
    dropping solid particles. the investigations show, the appearance
    of thrips palmi in mananas province with the dropping, on
    10/21/96, of an unknown substance. protest note 6/29/93

    Cuba, switzerland, 96-97 – Cuba charged the U.S. sprayed
    it with a hungry insect that is devouring its crops. at a meeting
    here of the 138 nations that signed the 1972 convention on
    biological weapons, Cuba demanded an investigation into claim
    that a U.S. state dept plane spewed an agent known as thrips
    palmi over Cuba last october. charges provide a test for the
    accord, intended to ban germ warfare. accord now includes no
    provisions for verification or enforcement. now negotiators
    trying to add powers that were built into the post-cold war
    treaties to ban chemical weapons and nuclear test explosions. the
    tiny insect, which severely damages practically every crop,
    started showing up in potato plantations about two months after
    the october flyover. washington post 8/26/97 a12

    Cuba, switzerland, 97 Cuban accuses U.S. government
    crop-dusting plane for spraying a substance over Cuba in october
    96 that led to the appearance in december of a crop pest. the
    potato bug was dropped on 10/21/96 by an s2r crop-dusting plane
    operated by the state department — who says the plane overflew
    Cuba, but emitted only smoke. washington times 8/26/97 a10

    Cuba, 61 CIA used weather modification and swine fever
    virus against Cuba. richelson, j.t. (1985). the U.S. intelligence
    community 231

    Cuba, 79-81 Castro said CIA probably behind hemorrhagic
    dengue where in 7 weeks 113 people died and 300,000 infected. he
    raised questions about african swine fever, sugar cane rust and
    blue mold on tobacco that hit Cuba beginning 79 counterspy 2/82
    6-8

    Cuba, 81 various evidence including testimony suggests
    that CIA thru Cuban exile terrorist org omega 7 spread epidemic
    of dengue fever. covert action information bulletin (now covert
    action quarterly) fall 84 22 & summer 82 28-31

    Cuba, 61-81 Cuban sugar contaminated, infected turkeys
    virus, 8000 died. 71 created african swine fever, 500,000 pigs
    killed. 81 epidemic dengue fever 300,000 cases reported. blum, w.
    (1986). the CIA a forgotten history 211

    Cuba, plans against Cuba’s sugar crop. ranelagh, j. (1986).
    the agency 386

    Cuba, 71 U.S. intel source said the CIA gave an
    anti-Castro group a container filled with african swine fever
    virus which caused the slaughter of 500,000 pigs to prevent a
    nationwide epidemic. wp 1/9/77, first principles 2/77 p12

    CHEMICAL WAR

    94-95 in 94 at maximum biosafety level 4 at the U.S. army
    medical research institute of infectious diseases, the fort
    detrick “biological weapons” center, a controlled experiment was
    run with what is probably the world’s most deadly organism: elgon
    filoviruses. these fragile tapes of rna in thin, protein-walled
    molecular tubes a few microns long share seven common proteins,
    and the army experiment showed that the most fulminating,
    hemorrhagic subtype, ebola zaire could pass airborne from one
    monkey to another. in biological warfare lingo, ebola zaire
    filovirus is a true “slate-wiper:” in a modern hospital, it will
    kill nine out of 10 infected persons in 24 to 48 hours. there are
    no known antibodies or counter-measures and its molecular
    structure is indistinguishable from other filoviruses, the least
    “fulminating” of which kills one in four persons in 24 to 48
    hours. after a few days or weeks of incubation in a mammal host,
    a filovirus multiples inordinately, congealing blood platelets
    and softening organ tissue into jelly. first, capillaries, then
    larger blood vessels fill, swell and burst, leaving the host
    bleeding massively internally and also externally through all
    orifices. intelligence – a computerized intelligence newsletter
    published in france 2/27/95 2 biological war. covert action
    information bulletin (now covert action quarterly) 17:2-31;
    18:58,59; 21:29,30; 22:16, 35; 25::3,7,26. “germ warfare
    disinformation,” 16:60,58; “the history of U.S. bio-chemical
    killers,” 17:5-7; “U.S. biological warfare: the 1981 Cuba dengue
    epidemic” 17:28-31. in afghanistan 17:13, 17,28; in Cuba
    17:28-31; in korea 17:6-7; in laos 17:12

    Cuba, 61-62 op mongoose begun in 11/61 to overthrow
    Castro. a wide range of ops from intel and propaganda, to
    sabotage of factories and installations, bombing power lines,
    spreading chemicals on sugar fields to sicken cane cutters, and
    several plots to murder Castro. watson, b., watson, s. & hopple,
    g. (1990). united states intelligence: an encyclopedia 364

    Cuba, 61-81 Cuban sugar contaminated, infected Cubans
    turkeys virus, 8000 died. 71 created african swine fever, 500,000
    pigs killed. 81 epidemic dengue fever 300,000 cases reported.
    blum, w. (1986). the CIA a forgotten history 211

    Cuba, 66-87 in july 87 Cuban gvt revealed the identities
    of 26 Cubans and one italian who had served as double agents for
    the Cuban gvt while ostensibly working for the CIA (double
    agents). Cuban tv ran an 11-part series on the 26. series exposed
    CIA attempts to spread dengue fever and crop diseases and efforts
    to assassinate Castro. nacla (magazine re latin america) 9/89 6

    Cuba, 69-70 CIA used weather modification to ravage
    Cuba’s sugar crop. it seeded rain clouds in non-agricultural
    areas that left cane fields arid. blum, w. (1986). the CIA a
    forgotten history 211

    Cuba, 69-70 CIA apparently used weather modification to
    destabilize Cuba’s food crop and export income. planes from china
    lake naval weapons center in california overflew Cuba seeding
    rain clouds that precipitated torrential rains over
    nonagricultural areas and left cane fields dry. CIA used
    international research and technology corporation in this op as
    reported by one of institutions leaders, lowell ponte in nyt,
    6/27/76. dutch scientists jaap van ginneken supported ponte’s
    claim. ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the CIA’s biggest burn 73

    Cuba, 69-70 planes from the china lake naval weapons
    center in california overflew Cuba, seeding rain clouds with
    crystals that precipitated torrential rains over nonagricultural
    areas and left the cane fields arid. richelson, j.t. (1985). the
    U.S. intelligence community 231

    Cuba, 71-83 sudden outbreaks of sogata rice blight in 71,
    african swine fever in 71 and 79, sugar cane rust and smut in
    78-79, blue tobacco mold in 79, newcastle disease in 82, and
    coffee smut in 83 caused serious damage to Cuban economy.
    ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the CIA’s biggest burn 73

    Cuba, 80-84 eduardo victor arrocena perez, head of
    CIA-financed group, omega-7, tried for assassinating felix
    garcia, a Cuban diplomat in new york on 9/11/80. arrocena was a
    CIA agent. during trial he testified CIA had given him chemicals
    to produce sickness in Cuba. ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the
    CIA’s biggest burn 78-9

    Cuba, vietnam, 57-97 book, che guevara: a revolutionary
    life, by jon lee anderson, reviewd by jane franklin. discusses
    lansdale in 1991 who had just returned from vietnam, where
    operation hades, a massive chemical warfare program, had just
    been secretly launched. the nation 5/19/97 27-8
    to subscribe e-mail Tom Burghardt [email protected]

    • Agree: Adûnâi
    • Thanks: Robert Snefjella
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  770. @Ron Unz

    New paper out suggests that Covid is costing it’s victims at least ten years of life expectancy.

    Deaths from COVID-19 represent a substantial burden in terms of per-person YLL [years of life lost], more than a decade, even after adjusting for the typical number and type of LTCs [long term conditions] found in people dying of COVID-19. The extent of multimorbidity heavily influences the estimated YLL at a given age…

    https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75/v1

  771. Incitatus says:
    @utu

    “…with currency exchange mischief. – Hypocritical accusations by America.”

    You’re probable right utu. Currency exchange is the matra of crank PhD Peter Navarro.

    He (with DJT) saved the US economy by renegotiating NAFTA. Guess what? Compare Trump’s 3-years US-Mexico trade figures (2017-2019) with the last three Obama year (2014-2016) figures. Trump/Navaro INCREASED the US/Mexico trade deficit by 41.44%. All while thumping their chests for rescuing the US economy. Hypocrisy? Look no further.

    China? Under Trump (2017-2019) the USA has a $1,140,567,000 trade deficit. An INCREASE of 7.71% from Obama’s ($1,058,971,000) total 2014-16). No need to mention the billions in aid [no “it’s not socialism”] to American farmers for lost exports.

    “Commodore Perry opening Japan and British forcing opium on China”

    Well above my pay grade. Sorry.

    Stay well utu.

    • Agree: Adûnâi
  772. @moshe

    So you don’t like his position on the holocaust?

  773. Rurik says:
    @geokat62

    amazing how many things come into sharper focus when one looks at the world through the prism of Jewish Supremacist Power.

    Agreed

    Don’t know if you saw S2C’s post

    The goal of biowar against the people of the USA is to cripple the economy, to Weimarize American commerce and enable those left standing to scoop up the life’s work and investment of millions of entrepreneurs for pennies on the dollar, with the added travesty that those left standing are supplied with dollars by the very taxpayers whose assets are being snapped up!

    But with the speculations that China may have done it to us, or we did it to China..

    What my fear is always what did ‘we’ do to ourselves, like with 9/11.

    We already know that the Great Depression was created by the Federal Reserve Bank. Even Ben Bernanke admitted it.

    Bernanke – “Regarding the Great Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry. …”

    He wasn’t being facetious.

    ‘First by inflation…’

    You guys all know the quote, so I won’t belabor it here.

    Once they got the keys to the Treasury, it was all she wrote. They then pumped up the economy (roaring 20s) and then pulled the rug out, and the people suffered privation like we can’t even comprehend. My parents were Depression era children, and if you left a light on when you weren’t in the room, whew boy!

    Anyways, the very people empowered to make sure depressions never happened, were the very people who caused it, in order to use their counterfeiting money press to buy everything up on pennies on the dollar. Such a deal! Just like they did in Germany during the Weimar regime.

    They did it again in 2008, when they pumped Wall Street and the housing market full of easy lucre, and then popped the bubble and swept in like vultures to feast on the carnage.

    This is their modus operandi, and whether this virus was created, or just a gift from nature, we can be sure of a few things. One is, they don’t care about us. Cue George Carlin..

    ‘they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you. At all, at all’.

    Truer words George, truer words.

    In fact, the last minute of this video is very salient to this whole conversation

    But I wish George was right about ‘they don’t care about you’, because it would be great if their interest in the American people was naught. Sadly that’s not the case. Rather they do care about us = they care about us enough to despise us.

    So just as they caused the Great Depression, just as they caused America’s involvement in both World Wars, and all the ongoing wars today, if they see an opportunity to loot the American economy, destroy the American middle class, and plunge heartland America into despair and horrible strife, while imposing an Orwellian Police State…

    ..need I say more?

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @geokat62
  774. vot tak says:
    @FB

    “Yeah…I wish we had a social credit system because scumbags like that might not be able to skate so easily.”

    That is how zionazia/western capitalism works. They bugger your behind and expect you appreciate the consumer/political personal attention. The zionazi-nazi-gay system is set up so people remain victims eternally.

  775. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    Great post as usual thanks.

    • Thanks: Rurik
  776. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    So 70 years of sprinkling viruses around China hasn’t been effective at all. Maybe the Chinese are just naturally healthy and tough. Or maybe several hundred million deaths doesn’t really harm China at all. Maybe we should retire the pixies who sprinkle viruses around China.

    Why do you keep writing we referring to what America does? Aren’t you some kind of Chinese citizen? Shouldn’t you write we when referring to China.?

  777. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    Did you ever read Ferdinand Lundberg? His theory was the depression was created by the manufacturers to drive wages down to starvation but still alive and able to work level.
    But the retail sector realized they ‘d have no customers if every body was too poor to buy anything.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  778. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    China and America swapped thinly veiled threats to nuke each other over Taiwan more than a decade ago so China is certainly past the point where the US could risk precipitating a nuclear retaliation on the continental US by China. Attacking mainland China with a nontrivially lethal bioweapon of exponential spread would entain inevitable retaliation.

    China could not just sit still for it though, because it would fear another much more lethal bioweapon attack was being prepared by America. Xi would have to at least publicly threaten thermonuclear war and maybe even make a specimen strike. The idea that Xi would or could fail to react to a probable bioweapon attack causing an epidemic and yet be left in supreme power is absurd. The countries of the World, especially China which has survived for millenia, simply do not work like that (see Korea when the 49th parallel was crossed).

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @Jaylonw
  779. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:

    unz.com is the NYT of the alt-right.

  780. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    He wants to be Chinese, but they’d never take him because he’s insane.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  781. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    I’m doing fine. I have been working at a temporary Coronavirus hospital in Florida in addition to my regular job. I’m happy to report that this hospital will be shut down on May 10th because things seem to have stabilized or even peaked in Florida.

    It appears that many more people are asymptomatic than at first thought.

    These prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50-85-fold more than the number of confirmed cases.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1

    This means that the “peak” in terms of new cases might be earlier than originally expected, perhaps now in some places such as NYC. There is not natural immunity so it will be around until there is an effective vaccine. This might be longer than one would expect as immunity to Coronaviruses is notoriously transient. There may be another bump in new cases in a few weeks as people start resuming normal activity.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @FB
  782. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    Regarding thromboembolism – these “clots” can break off inside the veins and travel to the lungs where they wedge and impair oxygenation. That would make the patient further compromised. If this occurred in the pulmonary veins it could lead to a stroke or heart attack. These have been reported to be increased in COVID-19 patients. so potentially it is pretty important and anticoagulation might become standard practice in serious cases. I’m not sure viral load is important in this in terms of what one is exposed to, but that some people, due to their particular genetics and immunity pattern, are more susceptible and will develop a higher viral load as a consequence.

    Regarding influenza viruses, they do not seem to have the same effect on vascular endothelium, so those sort of complications do not exist with flu patients.

    • Replies: @FB
  783. Ron Unz says:
    @The Scalpel

    I’m happy to report that this hospital will be shut down on May 10th because things seem to have stabilized or even peaked in Florida.

    That’s good news about Florida. But I really wouldn’t take that infection preprint about Santa Clara County (or the parallel one about LA) very seriously. The studies were very poorly designed, with a non-random sample likely to skew towards those who believed they had been infected, or at least exposed. They’ve already been pretty effectively debunked by numerous statistics experts, and discussed in a couple of threads. My guess is that the estimates are too high by something like a factor of 5 or more:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/infection-rate-in-silicon-valley-was-under-5-in-early-april/

    By contrast, there was a much more solid study that just came out for New York, suggesting that around 14% of the state and maybe 20% of NYC were infected, which are much more plausible numbers, given the huge local death rates.

    Unfortunately, if you assume those NYC infection rates are correct and combine them with the very high local death-rates, you get an IFR=1%, which is much higher than I’d recently been leaning towards.

  784. Ron Unz says:

    And it’s nice to see that the remarkable “precognitive capability” of our own Defense Intelligence Agency is starting to get the credit it deserves, given that the DIA distributed a November report about the huge epidemic in Wuhan before anyone else, including the Chinese themselves, had become aware of it.

    Here’s a Tweet this morning from a “Blue Checkmark” economist:

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @450.org
  785. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    This seems to me like a significant difference from the flu…that it attacks blood vessel tissue…leading to clots, and from there very serious problems with heart and other organs, not just lungs…

    That first article you linked to mentions that one study shows an eighteen fold increase in fatality if you have the indications of clotting…

    That doesn’t sound like just a flu to me…

    Also it seems that once you have this clotting, a ventilator isn’t going to help…

    I’ll tell you Doc, if one does end up in a bad way from this virus, it’s good to know that doctors have figured out what to do…

    Some people have been very cavalier in simply dismissing this whole thing as nothing but a flu…I think that’s a bad mistake…

    I’m glad to hear the good news that the worst is probably behind us…I think it could have been a whole lot worse if we hadn’t locked down…

    People have started to go stir crazy…but they forget that even if you are left with nothing, you can still rebuild…not so if you end up in a box…

    I appreciate your hard work and dedication…and that of all the doctors and nurses in the trenches…

    Well done…!

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @The Scalpel
  786. @Alden

    Sprinkling viruses around China (assuming that we have), like sprinkling bombs around Korea, Vietnam, Panama and the Middle East has been highly effective for the people who employ and equip the sprinklers: they receive 52% of our tax dollars.

    I am a dual US-Australian citizen but don’t support the sociopathic policies of either country.

  787. @Sean

    Xi would not need to prove that the US had nuked his country. He would need to prove that it infected his country with a novel virus–a much more difficult task.

  788. @Anonymous

    Lew is a lightweight thinker, and always has been. He promoted himself a permanent job as a professional egghead and hasn’t ever really been exposed to a life of work. His ideas aren’t really worth exploring, as his gushing over this ridiculous piece by Unz shows.

  789. @Rurik

    That’s pretty typical of Giuliani, who was even considered for president on the basis of his managing not to piss himself on camera while the ’01 coup was starting in his city. If there is a more vapid, posturing villain in the public eye than Giuliani, he has yet to be revealed.

    • Agree: Rurik
  790. J Swift says:

    “This new virus in China is nothing to worry about! It’s just like part of the normal seasonal flu. It’s nothing. The Chinese have done a great job with it.”

    Ding ding. I know, Alex. It’s “Things the President would say if he were informed an operation had been commenced without his express prior knowledge but against a foe he was not especially winning trade negotiations with, but not to worry because it was just going to hit them like a late rebound flu so they’d never realize it but it would interfere with the well known ramping up of the Spring production cycle, and if it ever leaked back to the US it was weak and would just blend in with the normal flu season and be unnoticed by the massively underfunded CDC.”

  791. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    So why do you live in Thai land? Some of your writings claim you grew up in China. I don’t believe a word you write

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  792. @Sean

    Anything that was going to infect all of China would infect the whole world unless it was only able to infect ethnic Chinese. Anyone who created the virus would have tested it and know it did not infect only ethnic Chinese before they released it in China. So it does not make sense to think it was any kind of a deliberate bioweapon attack.

    Harvard researchers without permission collected hundreds of thousands of Chinese DNA samples and transferred them back to the USA. Why do this unless you wanted to research Race based science.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/harvard-genetic-research-team-collected-and-transferred-china-blood-and-dna-samples-back-to-the-us/5704728

    The coronavirus in China is unique being mostly the B strain. Europe has a different strain. The USA is the only country with all coronavirus strains:

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117#abstract-2

    The only way it could make sense for the US or a cabal within it to attack China with COVID-19 would be it they thought the US could cope with a lockdown better than China.

    There is a theory Coronavirus strain A was released (Fort Detrick?) in the USA in August/September of 2019 bringing herd immunity by February 2020. There is no reason the Deep State would let a “tragedy go to waste”. Healthy Americans are unaffected. Speed up the death of the elderly (mostly have other underlying diseases) to solve the pension funding problems and rid a good portion of the illegal/legal population who are unhealthy and of no productive use. Remember 9/11 killed many young innocent Americans.

    If the US Elite believed all people within its border are equal, there would be free universal healthcare. The US was founded from human slavery and the prominent families of that era exist today.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
    , @TT
  793. Jaylonw says:
    @Sean

    The way the Chinese handled it (locking down over 60 million people) suggests they have suspicions that they are under bio terror attack. For them to retaliate, inconvertible proof is needed. Not flimsy stuff like “Saddam has WMDs”. China does not have a giant, all pervasive megaphone like the US, to go to war based on that alone, not to mention going against the Exceptional and Indispensable nation.

    • Replies: @Sean
  794. Biff says:
    @FB

    If Covid19 creates pulmonary embolism, then that is one nasty virus. A gal I knew from school recently died(4 years ago), and the wife of another friend had a pulmonary embolism and she nearly died as well. I guess it has 20% fatality rate which makes it a serious killer!

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  795. 04:56 min
    “As you guys know the initial models were were woefully inaccurate they predicted millions of cases of death not of not of prevalence or incidence but death that is not materializing.”

    09:50 min
    “The fact that we were able to ramp up and do four million is pretty impressive which gives us a nineteen point six percent positive out of those who are tested for COVID19 so if if if this is a typical extrapolation 328 million people times nineteen six is sixty four million. That’s a significant amount of people with COVID it’s similar to the flu.”

    Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing, Bakersfield, California, April 22, 2020, ABC News KERO Channel 23

  796. Art says:
    @Ron Unz

    Is there a rational explanation as to why half of the US CV deaths are in NYC+NJ? Bigger California has 1,300 deaths. Why the big difference?

    Californians live outdoors – NYers do not – is it sunshine? Is it vitamin “D”?

    Hmm — should we look at an obvious answer?

    • Replies: @Iris
  797. @Godfree Roberts

    What do you see as “sociopathic” policies of Australia? Even when Australia calculates that being part of America’s Coalition of the Willing is still in its interests it surely deserves credit for an intervention in Iraq which cost the life of just one Australian serviceman – who accidentally shot himself in his backroom, just my favourite example and evidence of calm moderation that comes to mind. I struggle to find sociopathy.

  798. @Ron Unz

    I long ago forwarded a Times of Israel report that Israel had received the same early notice as the White House and got back emails telling me that the story had been denied by one of the many trustworthy US intelligence agencies. Now I am confused.

    The tweets you quoted linked me to

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

    I take it you are at least sceptical about the existence and circulation of the November NCMI report.

    What’s your take on the ABC report and it’s genesis?

  799. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Again, the Alt-right has little choice about believing something. Political groups by their nature have to offer a “positive alternative”, some course of action that has a positive payoff. It’s religous groups that can say “the end is near”, and they can attract followers only because the reward comes after the “end” of the current world.

    The most basic problem is that, rather like the Bronze Age collapse or the downfall of the Roman Empire, there is no generally accepted alternative to the failing Western system. Here’s the general picture:

    1. The West has been contracting by several measures since WW II (M. von Creveld, “The Fate of the State, _Parameters_, 1996, Search “Google Scholar” for a link.)

    2. The economic basis of cities ended during the 1960s {See:
    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_New_York_City_(1946%E2%80%9377)
    * https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy/dp/0691136408 , which tells how the shipping industry and manufacturing moved from urban areas in the West.
    }

    3. The political center of all nations (not just the West) moved to the large cities as population increase proved unable to support itself in the existing economy of the countryside and had to be supported by political means in the cities that had lost their economic basis. (G. Copley, _Uncivilization_, 2012, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20061219-uncivilization )

    This has left us with a society that diverts its capital flow from the economic competition of the Gilded Age (which channeled capital flow into improvement and expansion of income producing capital) to the political competition of the post-WW II age (which channels capital flow into immediate consumption, generally in support of the urban areas that have control of politics (see item 3, above).

    Demographically, the West has an urban population as useless economically and as irretrievably living from political spoils as Rome’s was in, say, AD 200. We have a countryside as impoverished as the clients on a Roman Villa of the same time. (Note: Roman law pertaining to the Villa was the basis of medieval law governing manors in the European successor states of what used to be called the Dark Ages and Medieval periods before the bloodshed and population crash were airbrushed out, largely in support of the EU’s integration efforts).

    There isn’t any known way for a smooth transition. It has become impossible to support the world’s urban populations _anywhere_ in the world. The COVID-19 affair has revealed just how overstretched and poverty stricken the world has become. Since the world depends on the efficiencies of global trade to support the politically dominant mega-cities, the halting of global trade means that the mega-cities can no longer be supported. Anywhere.
    Even the Asian Tigers and China are dependent on global trade. Africa is dependent on Chinese extraction of African resources which a major contraction to global trade make no longer available (by definition) and physically unavailable because the US Navy is subject to COVID-19 and is becoming increasingly too expensive for the US (See the many snide remarks about “the Pentagon” even in this forum; these remarks are from political groups that want military money diverted to their particular political group).
    Right now, the USA is probably the country best able physically to achieve autarky. Those readers who live in the US (and don’t blindly say “This is the US!! We can do anything!!!!) will realize just how badly off the US would be if it tried for autarky, and through that can understand that other countries would be _worse_ off, possible exceptions being the landlocked non-civilized areas (Afghanistan, etc) and Russia.

    Ultimate stable state is increased autarky, decreased population, much smaller cities (essentially container yards and some prestige political activities), and a much more difficult life for the remaining population. Not something that could be sold as a political good.

    So what is the Alt-Right to do? Say “The end is near”, there isn’t anything much we can do?

    Some Alt-Right sites do say exactly that, or talk about surviving and profiting form “hard times” without mentioning any basic changes to society, and some say that salvation lies in other countries.

    That is about the mix you’d expect.

    Me? I say get out of the failing areas and good luck in finding some way to support yourself. This is a “muddling through”, which means I have no idea except to avoid obvious bad situations. As I said earlier, there isn’t any known successful strategy. This situation could take decades or centuries to work out, just as the shift from the Feudal order to the Westphalian state took about 270 years (1648-1920 to finally force the aristocracy from government.

  800. @Godfree Roberts

    I couldn’t get your links to open. But I see from what you quote that it is some activists’ collection of every scrap of fact and gossip which might support their cause, and nearly all, as I supposed, to do with crops or livestock.

    I am willing to believe that some low level CIA people or the Cubans they handled were allowed to get away with those minor items of damage to Cuba but it is surely a very big stretch to infer that a major attack on a a major power is plausible other than, as I have suggested, as a true outlier or Black Swan. As I noted almost anything is possible but not necessarily worth speculating about at length.

  801. Anonymous[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    My principal reason – absent any relevant scientific expertise – for rejecting the idea that some American Deep State loonies were responsible – or even just that American employed loonies did it – is that it is so stupid and bizarre that it would have to be a Black Swan event, a complete outlier in terms of probability distribution.

    What could possibly be more stupid and bizarre than the Civil Rights laws, which claim that White people are intrinsically evil and must be purged from any position of influence? And that one was supported by the general White population back in the 1960s.

    If the Civil Rights laws were implemented, than literally anything else could be. Consider the current “You can’t leave your house but it’s OK, we’ll send you enough money to live someday” laws, or the strategy of conducting wars overseas that generate huge refugee populations that are then encouraged to come to the West and live on government money in Western cities.

    That it is “stupid and bizarre” actually makes the policy slightly _more_ believable.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  802. https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3081523/dont-defend-trump-attack-china-coronavirus-strategy

    Jeez. And the brain dead retards will eat it up. I should order some more food n some popcorns.

    I wish the dying could be limited to the retards only. Would make the popcorns taste better.

    • Replies: @Jaylonw
  803. Anonymous[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    That’s a great find.

    Now, if only those Flu Hoax geniuses could try to imagine what that spike would have looked like without lockdowns.

  804. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Agree. I think it is valuable to note both extremes of findings when examining uncertain issues. Given initial lack of testing, we have a pretty good fix on the low end of estimated infection rate. You are correct that I might better have used the caveat “could be as high as” when discussing the Santa Clara County findings. As more studies such as the New York study come out, the likely true number of actual infected will be clearer, though it is a moving target ever trending higher.

  805. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    That doesn’t sound like just a flu to me…

    Absolutely true. I have been trying to make this point all along, but many people of a more partisan political nature would rather confuse the issue than try to put things in clear, simple terms as you just did.

    To make it simpler still, having Covid-19 is like the flu with one round of Russian Roulette thrown in for good measure. We are not certain how many chambers are in that revolver, but it is an otherwise apt description.

    • Thanks: FB
  806. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Biff

    The pulmonary embolism’s caused by COVID-19 would be somewhat different than what we traditionally think of when it comes to pulmonary embolisms. Instead of one large clot, we would have multiple tiny clots impairing the pulmonary circulation

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @AnonFromTN
  807. @Anonymous

    The main problem with the tortured and tortuous argument you have contrived is that, even were you right about civil rights legislation you are dealing with two very different subjects. In the case of complex legislation it is never surprising if those initially supporting it fail to see what adverse consequences it might have. In the case of deliberate release of Covid 19 no sane person could fail to see the risks or to understand how little they knew about what results there would be.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  808. Biff says:
    @The Scalpel

    The pulmonary embolism’s caused by COVID-19 would be somewhat different than what we traditionally think of when it comes to pulmonary embolisms. Instead of one large clot, we would have multiple tiny clots impairing the pulmonary circulation

    Holy lung cookie Batman! I’m starting to look at this virus in a whole new treacherous light! This may be a serious pandemic for years if estimates of second waves are true.

  809. @Godfree Roberts

    Allow me to make your attribution of sociopathic policies to Australia while emphasising the deserved goodwill in China towards the work of all those clever CCP people running China a little more difficult to justify. This story of barbarous behaviour by Chinese, mostly students under the effective control of the CCP, surely shocks you, does it not?
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/weekend-australian-magazine/swimmer-mack-hortons-family-reveals-fallout-from-drug-protest/news-story/a3f11ec2851c90b4171b8021c168a200

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  810. 450.org says:

    The virus is obviously affecting our body’s natural ability to regulate clotting. Like I said, and the intelligent amongst us understand, this is a virus like no other. Novel is an understatement. It has so many faces. So many hats. It’s hard to believe it’s just one virus. It’s as though the virus is an AI algo learning and adapting as it makes its way through humanity. Sure, metaphorically at least, viruses are like that but not to this extent, at least not the natural variety. This virus is other worldly — an Andromeda Strain.

    Who knowns, maybe its Zuckerberg’s brainchild. He’s the perfect anti-christ if you believe that religious crap. Unlike the judeo-christian messiah, he has reached the zenith of power by being the exact opposite of christ. Zuckerberg is unremarkable in every way. He has no charisma. He can’t inspire and doesn’t care to for that matter. He’s anti-social. He’s a misanthrope. In effect, he’s a big fat ugly zero, less than zero even, and yet he has tremendous power and influence over our daily lives. Zuckerberg is the real Damian Thorn.

  811. @Alden

    That’s right. Thailand is a CIA listening post in SE Asia, and not surprisingly also where western perverts go to chase boys.

    • Troll: d dan
  812. 450.org says:
    @Ron Unz

    HaHa! Thanks for noting the “Blue Checkmark.” Elitism is ubiquitous. In every nook & cranny it can be found. Twitter is no different.

    You’re special when you’re the recipient of the “Blue Checkmark.” It means you have a first class pass on the metaphorical ark that will allow you to float atop the raging pandemic sea until the ravages of the disease settle and the skies clear and the white dove, it must be white, returns with one of Adam’s ribs indicating a reboot and a fresh start.

  813. @d dan

    Look at how fast “Been_there_done_that” tries to misdirect this…
    .
    Yeah, Tiananmen incident was due to someone being treated unfairly in a discotheque –

    If agents provocateurs on behalf of the US government want to covertly infiltrate and influence an emerging foreign protest movement, it would be important for them to understand its genesis, along with what type of sentiments are on the minds of the clique of activists that are at the forefront of pushing the movement. Knowing that the originators of Tiananmen Square were upset by relatively banal issues, such as bad university cafeteria food, or seeing African men successfully seducing cute Chinese women, rather than espousing a well developed ideological or political agenda, makes it that much easier to penetrate such an ad hoc and rag-tag group and to then succeed in subtly developing and promoting a specific focus for them to latch onto.

    If you had bothered to read the contents of the entire link I provided, about the Nanjing protests a few months earlier, you would have understood the relevance of the particular issue I had referred to. I was not misdirecting, according to your accusation, but providing useful context. Here is an excerpt from that link farther down, with my emphasis in bold:

    The Nanjing protests were groundbreaking dissidence for China and went from solely expressing concern about alleged improprieties by African men to increasingly calling for democracy or human rights. They were paralleled by burgeoning demonstrations in other cities during the period between the Nanjing and the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, with some elements of the original protests that started in Nanjing still evident in Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, such as banners proclaiming “Stop Taking Advantage of Chinese Women” even though the vast majority of African students had left the country by that point.

    Since I had followed these early developments and noticed the lack of cohesiveness within the emerging movement, it seemed pretty clear to me that as the protests had become bigger, they must surely have already been infiltrated and hijacked, though of course I could not know for sure. This presumed fait accompli became evident once the large (10 meters = 33 feet high) Goddess of Liberty or Goddess of Democracy had been assembled at the square.

    The powerful symbolism of a conspicuous copy of the iconic Statue of Liberty, which could easily be seen from afar, provided (a) a specific focus for the large crowds gathered there, along with (b) the imagery that foreign television reporters would use to amplify the purported crowd sentiment, as well as (c) the provocation to the embarrassed Communist Party leadership, which ultimately decided to deal with it through violence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy

  814. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    Also worth noting in your remarks…

    There is not natural immunity, so it will be around until there’s an effective vaccine…

    That almost didn’t register first time reading it…

    Sounds to me like there may be no such thing as ‘herd immunity…’

    If you get a chance, can you clarify this…?

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  815. @dogbumbreath

    Just because people can think up shit, doesn’t mean the ideas are true. Occam’s razor is still that the virus began in China.

    Until some DNA studies pop up showing the virus was in the US before it was found in China, there is no evidence for the theory that this virus came from the US, much less it being man-made by the US.

  816. Sean says:
    @Jaylonw

    For them to retaliate, incontrovertible proof is needed

    Anything we can work out from thousands of miles way, Chinese officialdom has already mulled over. Perhaps to do anything drastic they might need to be more sure than they actually are, but they would not need to consider it more than a serious possibility to start publically blustering that a nuclear strike would be the consequence of a bioweapon attack on China (which would be loud and clear to anyone who had already carried out such an attack on China to not to do anything like that again) and yet the Chinese government are not issuing such a warning. The question becomes this: what freedom XI would have to not issue the aforementioned warning and be more or less passive while awaiting whatever the US decided to do to Chian next? Crucially, if it concluded that COVID-19 was a deliberate bioweapon attack, China could not be sure the pandemic was not merely laying the groundwork for the real bioweapon phase of a multi stage operation that was about to decimate the Chinese population. Consider.

    1) Hit China with a novel virus that appears to be similar to SARS and linked to pangolins, known to be much trafficked by China, causing China to begin months months of lockdown to combat the resultant epidemic.

    2) Allow the novel virus that the Chinese are coping with to grow into a world pandemic sweeping through the West, shutting down inessential economic activity for months, and killing mainly economically redundant old folk. All this would be necessary for establishing a cover story and plausible deniability for phase III.

    3) Once China has completely exited their lockdown in October, launch the real bioweapon attack using a new spectacularly virulent version of the COVID-19 pathogen that is East Asian especially ethnic Chinese specific* and kills or permanently disables and makes sterile 10% of young Chinese to shatter China’s economy for the foreseeable future.

    *The virus killing and crippling ethnic Chinese and few others could be attributed to it having becoming specialised to Chinese by undergoing adaption under the conditions favourable to rapid natural selection offered by China’s huge, crowded, and unhygienic detention complexes.

    • Replies: @Jaylonw
    , @anon
  817. Iris says:
    @Art

    Is there a rational explanation as to why half of the US CV deaths are in NYC+NJ? Bigger California has 1,300 deaths. Why the big difference?

    Population density obviously plays a facilitating role as the Covid-19 pandemic progresses by “spreader events”, the more people involved in any event at a given location, the larger the contamination.

    But more importantly, the US West Coast is mostly contaminated with an early ancestor strain of the virus (Strain A) which existence precedes the daughter Strain B that caused the outbreak in Wuhan.

    As for NY, its epidemic is caused by even newer strains imported from Europe: mutated versions of B Strain and a later C Strain. It is very likely that the strains hitting NY are deadlier.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/healthcare-coronavirus-usa-new-york/coronavirus-came-to-new-york-from-europe-not-china-governor-idUSKCN2262NJ

    • Agree: Jaylonw, Tor597
    • Thanks: Art
    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  818. @Ron Unz

    They are also conducting one in Galveston County, Texas, which is the home of the Galveston National Laboratory.

    https://www.utmb.edu/gnl/news/2020/04/16/the-galveston-national-lab-and-wuhan-institute-of-virology

    The Galveston National Laboratory, located on the campus of the University of Texas Medical Branch, is one of two university-based maximum containment (BSL-4) laboratories in the U.S. focused on the study of highly infectious diseases and the development of medical countermeasures….

    Through our Biosafety Training Center, UTMB has provided laboratory safety and security training for scientists and operations personnel in more than 70 countries, including China. The relationship with Wuhan Institute of Virology and the GNL dates back to 2013 and has been facilitated through an ongoing dialogue co-sponsored by the Chinese Academies of Science and U.S. National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine, with cooperation from the Chinese CDC and others.

    Here is info on the testing:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-testing-idUSKCN2251RQ?utm_source=34553&utm_medium=partner

    All told, Galveston so far has tested around 3% of the county’s more than 340,000 residents. That compares with national testing running at around 1% of the U.S. population, according to John Hopkins University data….

    Galveston County, which has about 480 confirmed COVID-19 cases, according to a Reuters tally, has yet to achieve the two-week decline in daily cases recommended for economic reopening. Still, only around 2% of tests at its drive-through facilities are coming back positive….

  819. Jaylonw says:
    @Sean

    Great story, dint you wish you at least have an iota of evidence? Even more bizarre than “ Saddam has WMDs”, but, no stopping delusions.

  820. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Now look here ASSWIPE…

    Your Madeleine Albright style reckoning that the Iraq invasion was ‘worth it’ because only one Australian soldier was lost is sick beyond words…

    What about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives wasted…?

    What about the instability created in the region, that continues to rage to this day…?

    What about the cost to national treasure to this ‘coalition of the willing’…?

    And what about the damage done to the respective militaries themselves, as disgraceful war crimes continue to emerge and undermine the very fabric of said militaries…?

    You are not concerned about any of these horrible costs in the least…

    You, a committed Zionist and neocon, only care about the benefit to Israel, on whose behalf these disastrous undertakings have been committed…

    You’ve got a heck of a lot of nerve to go on the PCR thread and kvetch about Hitler’s aggression, and then come here and defend the exact same kind of illegal invasion of Iraq…

    You try to present yourself here as some kind of ‘respectable’ barrister, when you are nothing but a Zionist shyster, who wouldn’t know the first word of international law if it bit him on his diseased ass…

    A neocon scumbag and Israel booster infesting this discussion board…

    • Agree: Half Back
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  821. Jaylonw says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    If those idiots are successful and placed sanctions on China, it would be a Godsend to the hawkish faction in China. There will be no more downside in terms of foreign interference, and the time for Taiwan reunification has arrived… not to mention also time to round up all the terrorists wannabes in HK.

  822. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    So why is China staying silent while their global reputation is slandered daily by the international Jew media? Are they that cowardly or are they secretly a Jewish puppet regime?

    • Replies: @Sean
  823. @The Scalpel

    Hey Doc, did you report your observations on blood clotting in covid patients? I think all practitioners should be aware that they need to pay attention to this and act accordingly. You can write up a case report or whatever, even based on insufficient number of observations to draw final conclusions, and either upload it to any open access repository or submit to one of the journals. I can guarantee speedy treatment in any of the journals where I am handling or reviewing editor. I think other biomedical journals would also recognize the importance of speedy dissemination of this info.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @The Scalpel
  824. @Wizard of Oz

    no sane person

    What makes you think that today’s imperial elites are sane? Recent actions of the Empire and its sidekicks suggest otherwise.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    , @Wizard of Oz
  825. nsa says:

    Some of the regular Trumpies have not been heard from of late: Wally, AuthenticJazz, etc. Could they have taken the advice of their heroic fuhrer and doused themselves internally with light by swallowing lit light bulbs, or ingesting Lysol to cleanse the cells of the wu-wu virus? Gentlemen, please check in so we know you are alive and well……….

    • LOL: Parfois1
  826. geokat62 says:
    @Rurik

    Don’t know if you saw S2C’s post

    I hadn’t. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

  827. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    Immunity to this virus appears to be remarkably transient – as short as several months. In other words, someone who has fought off the virus will have antibodies immediately after the infection is cleared, but within several months, the amount of antibodies can be insufficient to fight off the same virus again. Even someone who was infected and got over it again can be reinfected as little as several months later. The same shortcoming applies to potential vaccinations as applies to actual infections.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @RT
  828. 450.org says:

    If it’s purposeful biowarfare, this is as much to do with it as anything else. The space race. The new frontiers are outer space and inner space. Fyi, I have a nephew who works for a company that creates & manufactures all manner of space equipment to equip deep space missions as well as equip satellites. Once the pandemic started, the DoD demanded the company effectively become the property of the DoD. This is unprecedented since the nephew started working there — he’s recently out of college. The DoD is now permanently on site overseeing the projects and demanding the employees work eighty hour or more weeks. The employees are exhausted and have no social life. They have to travel for this so the DoD has provided them with special travel waivers. This draconian administering, like I said, began directly when the pandemic hit Wuhan. This is telling, in my opinion.

    Can China send a man to the moon? Did America as it said it did? I don’t know. You tell me. If America didn’t, surely China knows by now by virtue of its manless craft having visited and orbited the moon. It would have noted the proof of America’s presence or lack thereof.

    https://www.space.com/42914-china-far-side-moon-landing-crewed-lunar-plans.html

  829. @Ron Unz

    If accurate, that graph is impressive, but of course raises the questions, 1) are those excess deaths owing to the virus or to our societal response to the virus, and 2) are the deaths in the spike merely “borrowed from the near future,” i.e. were the victims on death’s door anyway? If they are merely advanced a few months, we’d expect to see a dip in deaths in the coming months, although this could be obscured by fatalities caused by the economic shutdown.

    I don’t see why you’re leaping to conclusions about the lethality of C19. This isn’t particle physics. It’ll be a long time before we have believable numbers.

    And in any case, the “hoaxers” are generally not claiming that C19 is exactly like the flu, but just pointing out that if it makes sense to shut down the economy to avert deaths from C19 then why not do so to avert deaths from other illnesses or accidents? The question is whether there are other agendas in play.

    The most obvious beneficiaries of fanning panic and extending this lockdown are the Wall Street banksters and the mega-corporations, who’ll take advantage of the controlled demolition of the economy and the capitulation of Main Street.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  830. 450.org says:

    Both China and America are surveillance states but each goes about it very differently although American corporations helped China get their robust surveillance state up and running for the past two decades. China is not shy about the fact they have a surveillance state. In fact, they’re downright transparent about it. Not America. America is not transparent about the fact it has a surveillance state and in fact denies it when it’s called out on it.

    Surveillance states can be used for good and bad purposes, but mostly bad I’d say. However, China has proven that their surveillance state can be used for good and is being used to save lives. They have put their surveillance state to good positive use in tracking this virus and containing it in real time whereas America refuses to do the same.

    I think that says a lot, don’t you? Yes, China approached the containment of this virus with a heavy hand, but America has approached it with an empty hand. It refuses to use the surveillance state it denies for good and to save lives and instead continues to use it for evil. If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck, guess what it is? That’s right, it’s a duck. America walks like a duck despite its talk to the contrary. It is what it does, not what it says.

    If this is biowarfare by America against China it has massively backfired and it is only serving to make China that much stronger. Here’s a case in point. China’s lighting-fast response to this virus has been astounding. Stellar. Impressive. All credit is due, but instead it’s receiving derision and perhaps it’s for the reason Ron surmises.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-drove-him-back-to-china-where-he-invented-a-fast-coronavirus-test

    Yet the government’s investigations and prosecutions of scientists for nondisclosure — a violation previously handled within universities and often regarded as minor — may prove counterproductive. The exodus of Tan and his colleagues highlights a disturbing irony about the U.S. crackdown; it is unwittingly helping China achieve a long-frustrated goal of luring back top scientific talent.

    Thousand Talents aimed to reverse China’s brain drain to the West by offering elite Chinese scientists premier salaries and lab facilities to return home permanently. Finding relatively few takers, it let participants like Tan keep their U.S. jobs and work in China on the side.

    By investigating Tan and other Chinese researchers for nondisclosure, the U.S. government is accomplishing what Thousand Talents has struggled to do. None of the professors identified in this article have been charged with stealing or inappropriately sharing intellectual property. Yet in the name of safeguarding American science, federal agencies are driving out innovators, who will then make their discoveries and insights in China instead of the U.S. The potential drawbacks hark back to an episode in the McCarthy era, when a brilliant rocket scientist at the California Institute of Technology was deported by the U.S. for supposed Communist sympathies and became the father of China’s missile program.

  831. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    WOW…thanks for this, Doc…

    Very sobering info indeed…

    Amazing how much the general public doesn’t know…our so called ‘media’ failing MASSIVELY as usual…

    • Thanks: The Scalpel
  832. JackOH says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “What makes you think that today’s imperial elites are sane?”

    You and Ron, probably several others here, have referred to our governing elites as “crazy and also extremely incompetent” (Ron’s version), or words to that effect. I’m a continuing reader of UR partly because the articles reflect my belief that criminal and civil misconduct are important and mostly unrecognized drivers of policy and governing behavior.

    I’d never thought of the possibility that someone in a leadership position with a diagnosable psychiatric defect might be permitted to maintain his position, exercise budget authority, evaluate subordinates, etc.

    I actually do know someone in a state-level, non-health position who fits that description. His erratic behavior, uncontrolled temper, open contempt for subordinates, and administrative failure after unreprimanded failure are common knowledge. Several people independent of one another over the course of years have suggested in casual conversation he’s suffering from a mental defect. He retains his $90,000+ a year job (maybe $150,000 a year in a big city) through patronage from a local strong man who no one is willing to cross. (One former politician publicly likened my area to a Third World banana republic.) Deeply embittered, he seems to have internalized every bureaucratic slight visited upon him, and has long since lost whatever spirit of public service he may have had..

    Long story short: yes, I think we ought to allow for the possibility that some of our leaders may be “crazy and also extremely incompetent”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  833. Herald says:
    @Pft

    When are people going to realize the elites in every country are now united and make up a Shadow Global Government.

    The elites in most countries may have common aims, but the big difference is that in some of them, the elites do not have the amount of control, as they clearly do in the USA and its vassals.

  834. cranc says:
    @Ron Unz

    but the impact of the Coronavirus sure doesn’t look like “the Flu” to me…

    What do you specifically mean Ron ? Do you mean the virus itself, or the impact of closing down society and health services ? Why don’t you address this point instead of referring to ‘hoax believers’ (a straw man).
    The serology tests are shredding the narrative that this is a disease with a 3-4% mortality rate (or are there some that I have not seen ?) . Row back or be seriously on the wrong side.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  835. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:

    Curious, based on his commenting history, that Scalpel, supposedly a “frontlines” physician (love the military metaphors) is posting at about twice his usual rate; you think he’d be overwhelmed due to the “pandemic”.

    • Troll: FB
    • Replies: @Rurik
  836. DaveE says:

    Would it not be wisest for these evil geniuses to keep the bugs coming, intensifying the impact so that the continuously simmering anger of the increasingly desperate masses can be directed to boil over at the Chinese menace when the ‘elites’ deem it necessary and proper.

    I doubt these bastards CAN release more viruses. The whole thing violates the balance of nature. It’s not possible to design a virus that’s both deadly on contact AND easily transmissible through the air. But it’s very easy to make people THINK they can. Yet, even constant lying by the zionist media has its limits – even the dumbest goyim wake up eventually.

    So they get around it by constantly shifting their tactics, one scam after another. The zionist modus operandi is more like an Evangelical preacher. Never finish a sentence, never elaborate on a topic, just change the subject constantly, wave your arms a lot, use all the usual code-words and catch-phrases to drum up applause and whip up the hysterical side of your audience, to neutralize any actual thinking that might otherwise occur.

    Iran-gate fails, move onto Syria-gate. Syria-gate fizzles, move onto Russia-gate. Russia-gate flops, move onto corona-gate. Corona-gate fails, blame China to start a war – the long-lusted-after WWIII to set up the Jewish Empire, aka Zion, on Earth.

    Hopefully we’ll soon add “China-gate” to the long list of failed zionist tyrannical schemes that DIDN’T destroy us pesky Goyim.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  837. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “What do you see as “sociopathic” policies of Australia? … Australia … is still in its interests it surely deserves credit for an intervention in Iraq which cost the life of just one Australian serviceman … I struggle to find sociopathy.”

    Wow. If you think this way, then you are “sociopathic”. I hope you take back what you say. You should probably apologize to the Iraqi people too.

    “just one Australian serviceman” – that is what it counts?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  838. Rurik says:
    @Alden

    Ferdinand Lundberg? His theory was the depression was created by the manufacturers to drive wages down

    I hadn’t heard of him, but I don’t think his theory is correct. The Depression was brought on by the stock market bubble, and then ‘crash’, and then a dearth of available liquidity and credit.

    It was caused and then exacerbated by the Fed (the very people empowered to make sure that doesn’t happen). The exact same Fed that (deliberately) caused the 2008 crash, and the current stock market bubble. They all know the bubbles are unsustainable, and I suspect they too are using this virus crisis as a convenient excuse to correct the market, while looting the treasury of trillions in secret deals to the ((big investment banks)).

    Their brazen perfidy is so over-the-top, that they count on most people being too decent to even comprehend their treachery. Like 9/11, most people simply can’t wrap their brains around the enormity of their filthy double-dealing. They’ve been honing their cunning deceitfulness and guile for millenniums, while Christians continually play fair and above board. (And always lose).

  839. Rurik says:
    @Anonymous

    What a cowardly little POS you are!

    We’re all very grateful that a guy like The Scalpel deigns to post here to enlighten us all in this time of ubiquitous, agenda-driven lies.

    I guess there are some people (scumbags) that don’t want honest people speaking out, huh?

    Slither back under your rock, troll.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  840. Ron Unz says:
    @cranc

    The serology tests are shredding the narrative that this is a disease with a 3-4% mortality rate (or are there some that I have not seen ?) . Row back or be seriously on the wrong side.

    Another crazy Flu Hoaxer recently said something similar, which greatly puzzled me.

    After all, from the time I first began to pay attention to the US outbreak a couple of months ago, I’ve never seen anyone credible claim such ridiculous fatality rates. All the experts seemed to be saying that the overall death-rate was normally about 1%, with perhaps another 4% requiring serious hospitalization in an ICU. So only if there were a total collapse of the local health care system as in Lombardy, would you see up to 5% of the victims die. Meanwhile, 80% of the cases were pretty mild or even asymptomatic. Obviously, these estimates might change over time, but that’s what I read in my newspapers and saw people say.

    Here’s my guess about why the Flu Hoaxers have such contrary ideas. Maybe they don’t read newspapers like the NYT, but instead watch lots of TV, and everyone knows that TV people are extremely ignorant and sensationalistic. Now for an exponentially-growing disease for which our totally incompetent government had no test-kits, it’s obvious that only the most serious cases would be recorded as infections, and naturally a much higher percentage of those would be fatal. And ignorant TV people (and some lower-quality journalists) wouldn’t be aware of that, and say all sorts of stupid things.

    For example, the official record shows that NY currently has 287K cases and 22K fatalities, which stupid TV people might think implies a ridiculous fatality rate of over 7%. So if you mostly just watch TV and listen to the statements of the TV people, you’ll encounter all sorts of misinformation, and once you see it doesn’t make sense, you might react by becoming an ardent Flu Hoaxer.

    By contrast, everyone sensible has been assuming that the NY death rate is around 1% or perhaps somewhat higher due to the severe stress on the local health system. If the health system had totally collapsed as some expected, then deaths might have jumped to 4K-5K per day, which is another situation entirely.

    I’m not sure if my speculation is correct, but I’d be very curious to see if the Flu Hoaxers can find any credible person who was every seriously claiming that the death rate was much higher than 1% (absent a total collapse of the local health system, ICU cases to all quickly die).

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Jon Baptist
  841. Miro23 says:
    @Pft

    When are people going to realize the elites in every country are now united and make up a Shadow Global Government. They are global elites.

    How are they united? The Russian and Chinese elites don’t trust at all the US Imperial elite (or their collaborators).

    In fact, the US Imperial elite may not even trust themselves, and are looking for personal security on the other side of the globe:

    While the majority of Americans have no choice but to put up with the shortfalls of their government amid the coronavirus crisis, the US’s super-rich are seeking refuge in New Zealand.

    New Zealand has become the go-to place for billionaires escaping a hypothetical apocalyptic scenario. Scattered across the country are a number of underground bunkers designed to keep the ultra-wealthy safe and sound in an emergency.

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486714-%D1%81ovid19-rich-americans-bunkers-new-zealand/

  842. cranc says:

    All the experts seemed to be saying that the overall death-rate was normally about 1%

    The ‘go to’ sources for numbers seems to be Worldometer and John Hopkins, which only offers the following as a link to ‘death rate’:

    In his opening remarks at the March 3 media briefing on Covid-19, WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus stated:

    “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.”

    Has Adhanom updated us on the WHO’s official estimate since March 3rd ? His pronouncement then was widely reported in the UK press (and on TV) throughout March and into April.
    John Hopkins only seems to give case fatality rates that range between 3% and 15%.
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
    If these sources (esp the WHO) have not properly qualified their estimates and been slow in updating them (and the public) then one can see how a significantly overestimated figure has ‘driven the narrative’.

  843. denk says:

    US National Institute of Health‘s ad in China…
    Your life pardner in healthcare .

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/what-did-u-s-intel-really-know-about-the-chinese-virus/#comment-3859321

  844. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Damn sarcasm from a “gold star”. I must be blessed. Well, if you had clicked on the links I provided, you will see that these were not my personal observations, but expert opinions. Those experts could be wrong. We are early in the process of understanding the complete picture. Science does not and can not proceed instantly. They are theories based on sound observations and knowledge of the field. The observation about blood clots is real, the theory about endothelial damage is likely true give known mechanisms and preliminary research.

    Someone asked me a question. I did my best to answer it. Do you have anything useful to add, or are you just masturbating to the thought of responding, even if it is in an ignorant and juvenile manner?

    • Agree: JDTrader
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Ron Unz
    , @Parfois1
  845. Rurik says:
    @Ron Unz

    you’ll encounter all sorts of misinformation, and once you see it doesn’t make sense, you might react …

    while not a Flu Hoaxer, I can attest that with the reliability and enormity of the lies I’ve been told (9/11, for example), I have become rather cynical about whatever they’re saying (spewing ; ).

    If the media and our politicians say the sun will rise tomorrow, suddenly I’m doubtful.

    So yea, I think you’re right, and that a certain skepticism has been arrived at. Kind of the way Russians treated their Pravda, (truth) The irony of which I’ve always thought was what motivated your naming your series ‘American Pravda’).

    That’s all we’ve been subjected to our entire lives; ‘Pravda’.

    And so perhaps on occasions, there’s a natural swing of the credibility pendulum in the opposite direction.

    I suppose I should even say, (since I know others are thinking it ; ) that when you wrote ‘are now found in the respectable pages of my morning New York Times and Wall Street Journal’, I couldn’t help but think you were being sarcastic.

    “Maybe they don’t read newspapers like the NYT..”

    For me, (humbly and respectfully), I’ve always considered the NYT as our very own American Pravda, only lacking the overt irony. I’ve thought so ever since I read about Walter Duranty’s Pulitzer Prize winning ‘reporting’, as millions were being deliberately starved to death.

    Haven’t they been the main cheerleaders for the Eternal Wars? And every neo-liberal, leftist progressive idiocy in the West for generations now?

    Anyways, just wanted to confirm that your theory is likely correct, and that many of us are quite jaded vis-a-vis ‘what our media and politicians are telling us on any given day. On occasion, many of us might go too far in the other direction.

  846. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Rurik

    Thanks for the support, man. It means a lot to me. I have been following your comments for years. Interstingly, ED volumes are way down. Many people who would otherwise present for care are staying home to avoid exposure to possible COVID-19. Myself, I worked 27 days out of 30 this month between my regular job and the Coronavirus hospital. I don’t work 24 hours a day though, and this happens to be an area of interest of me.

    • Thanks: davidgmillsatty
    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @FB
  847. @Ron Unz

    I’m not sure if my speculation is correct, but I’d be very curious to see if the Flu Hoaxers can find any credible person who was every seriously claiming that the death rate was much higher than 1%

    The WHO seems to garner respectability for some reason and Ghebreyesus was spewing 3.4%

    “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died”
    https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19—3-march-2020

  848. Rurik says:
    @The Scalpel

    I don’t work 24 hours a day though, and this happens to be an area of interest of me.

    It isn’t just of interest to you, but for all of us. Hence the flurry of articles and comments and speculation. And which is why some of us are so grateful to you for your honest and personal observations and expertise. Because wherever there’s an agenda, there are also going to be obfuscation and even out-right lies. And we all come here to find out the truth. A very elusive thing, these days.

    And thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.

    For someone to imply that all doctors and nurses and first responders, etc.. should be spending every single second of their lives in the hospitals and so forth, because taking a bathroom break or having lunch or God forbid, taking a personal moment away from their job! – betrays not ignorance, because no one is that blinkeringly stupid. Rather that comment is no-doubt from one of the agenda-driven liars (and cowards) who would like to see more obfuscation and deceit, in service to their own agenda.

    • Agree: The Scalpel
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  849. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    Doc, let me take a moment to review some of the important information you have presented here…

    1 This is not just a flu, or even a ‘bad’ flu…unless one considers Russian Roulette a harmless parlor game…

    2 There is no such thing as herd immunity for this, and any prospect of a vaccine may be difficult because of the transient nature of immunity which seems not to last [ie this virus has what might be called ‘double tap’ capability]…

    3 Even though we may be near the peak of this spread, it could well keep coming back in subsequent waves, reinfecting people who have already had it…and them passing it along again, and so on…

    Please correct me if I have mischaracterized any of that, and feel free to clarify as needed…

    But I would say those points are quite significant, and basically unknown by the public…which is astonishing…

    And if I may pose one more question…would you agree that the lock down has helped to contain what could have been a more pronounced crisis…particularly in regards to the health care system’s ability to deal with the crisis without being overwhelmed…?

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    , @Levtraro
  850. barr says:
    @Incitatus

    -US GDP per capita (2017) is $59,800;
    -China GDP per capita (2017) is $16,700”

    Does it include those 40% who don’t have 500 dollars in bank account to miss one paycheck ?

    Does this GDP include those zombie companies that make more than 50% of US GDP?

  851. @The Scalpel

    Congrats! That was a truly infantile answer. I have no more questions.

    • Replies: @anon
  852. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    The butt-hurt is strong with this one.

    • Troll: Rurik
  853. @Ray Caruso

    …to suggest the mere existence of the lab in Wuhan is somehow evidence there was a leak from that lab is a rather inane leap of logic.

    The mere suggestion that the corona virus may have come from the corona virus lab two blocks away is just more than your brain can handle then?

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  854. Sean says:
    @anon

    China cannot be manipulated by Jews, who are specialised to exploiting a particular niche among white gentiles. China is essentially different to the West in its mindset for reasons both historical and genetic. As Peter Frost has said “In sum, East Asians have resolved the “large society problem” through a different psychological and behavioral package that places less emphasis on emotional involvement and more on restoration of social harmony.” China is not issuing any warning that it reserves the right to respond thermonuclearly to a bio assault; the truth as far as I can see it is China does not think it has been attacked with a bioweapon. Hence Xi and the ruling elite believe there is no real need to deter America by issuing veiled threats to nuke the US if there is any (another) bioweapon attack on China.

    China is defiantly refusing to shut down the wet markets , which would be a simple matter. Considering that China’s treatment of animals likely had something to do with SARS coronavirus (SARS-CoV) which was identified in 2003 and and its name suggests is the main ancestor of the COVID-19 pathogen SARS-CoV-2, they are being rather insouciant. A third coronavirus out of China or, as is quite a bit more likely, a mutation of SARS-CoV-2 sweeping out of China and across the world with such spectacular virulence it was like a different disease, would devastate China too. In October 2019 Xi made a speech on the establishment of the People’s Republic Of China: “That great event thoroughly transformed China’s tragic fate, ending more than a century of poverty, weakness, and bullying.”. It is begining to look like the Chinese inferiority complex may lead them to destroy civilisation as we know it.

    China is concentrating on being strong against bullying from foreign powers and even such perfectly rational hygienic measures as requests for China to mandate closing down of the wet markets are perceived as gratuitous bullying by the West, despite two devastating viruses in 18 years! The Chinese leadership are living in the past and ignoring the real threat to China which is another and much worse epidemic that could be prevented if they closed the wet markets and detention camps. Wu wei runs deep over there. They are yet again destroying themselves with a counterproductive philosophy of stillness, but the difference this time is they are going to take us down with them. All the West has is nukes and they are useless against this kind of threat.

    • Replies: @dogbumbreath
  855. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    So far, nothing. No refutation, no rationalization, just … silence.

    There is a very straightforward, self-serving reason for this total silence. ANY and ALL mention of this question, even a purported explanation, just serves to cast a spotlight on it and invites detailed analysis of the answer.

    It’s like being a child molester. If you address the question, then more people know of what you may have done. If you answer the charges, they don’t go away, people simply repeat the accusations to each other.

    So they have chosen silence in the hope that the question it will go away. Sites like this, and commentators like us, will make sure that it won’t.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  856. @Wizard of Oz

    Access to the article you linked to is by subscription only. Perhaps you can paste an excerpt here?

  857. 450.org says:

    Another coincidence to add to the list. Trump suddenly, without notice, effectively evacuated New York for Palm Beach. Guess the date? November 1st. Interesting timing considering his administration was warned at this time of the pandemic starting in Wuhan prior to the Chinese having any clue of such. One wonders, was Trump’s administration aware New York City would be ground zero for this in America and hence the effective evacuation? Maybe. Perhaps. We’ll never know unless some Assange wannabes break in and release the correspondence.

    Once again, Trump appears to be immune despite his not taking proper precautions and his many exposures. Maybe we should use his Aryan blood for a vaccine much as Neville did in the 1971 blockbuster The Omega Man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q_fLr7hCZE&feature=youtu.be

  858. @Wizard of Oz

    Australia’s ongoing genocide of its native people, its ongoing invasions of peaceful foreign countries, and its ongoing wage suppression of its working people qualify as sociopathic.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  859. @FB

    Off the meds again? Oh dear I should apologise to your carers for not avoiding anything that could set you off except that they should really try and restrain you from bursting in incontinentally on others’ conversations.

    Maybe you once had the functioning IQ points to understand that I was offering to GR my understanding that he might regard as reprehensible Australia’s acceptance of the US call on its traditional allies (who were small and vulnerable enough to feel the need for a big protector and noted GWB’s “if you are not for us you are against us”). I was pointing out that Australian action, far from having any necessary causal connection with or even foreknowledge of American actions which were devastating, didn’t even fail to protect its own citizens in the way the US does with its recruitment from amongst the food stamp classes and squandering of lives, inter alia unspecified.

    Where were you, by the way, on the effect on Iraqis of the decade of sanctions before the second Iraq War?

    • Troll: Iris
    • Replies: @FB
  860. @d dan

    See my reply to the unhinged FB. I have known the PM of the day (whose presence in DC on 9/11 seems to have given him an additional emotional empathy for America under terrorist attack) long enough to know that what I take to be above all his decision to support GWB in Iraq was not the decision of a sociopath. Of course, as I publicly argued in 2003, America’s decision to invade Iraq was wrong and stupid but that doesn’t make Australia’s small contribution “sociopathic” and the fact that only one serviceman was killed (in contrast to the Australian casualties in the Afghanistan war) bespeaks serious concern for the lives of those that Australia’s leaders can clearly affect. I was attempting to ensure GR focused any reply he might give to justify what seemed to me a generalised slur.

  861. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    If I were ‘incontinent’ I would certainly take care to only tinkle on your silly little head…

    And you may have noticed that this is an OPEN forum…where ‘conversations’ are by no means closed to anyone…as YOU demonstrated by jumping on Godfree..

    The Blizzard of Shnozz strikes again…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  862. @AnonFromTN

    I think I was backing up my suggestion that we were discussing what in reality would be outliers – Black Swan events. I concede that is not reason to ignore the possibility of insane actions. I once even wrote a paper on what could be done about a PM who went gaga while Parliament was in recess and sought to avoid scrutiny by having the Governor-General prologue Parliament for six months. And Hitler’s generals had to know he was an insane drug addict for at least the last year or two of WWll! Trump does not appear to be insane in the usual sense but the convincing picture of him by Tony Schwartz at the Oxford Union in October 2016 (on You Tube) suggests dangerous personality disorder. I can’t help repeating the cliché that in the end the devil is in the detail. We have to hope we have designed and built institutions to cope with human cunning and wickedness. The role of money in American politics seems to show that America hasn’t.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  863. Ron Unz says:
    @cranc

    Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died.

    But his statement was absolutely correct. Note the word “reported.” Just as I emphasized, over 7% of reported cases in NYC have died, but absolutely nobody believes that the actual fatality rate is 7% in NYC. Indeed, I was quite surprised that it seems to be as high as 1%.

    The Chinese obviously had the earliest substantial experience, and their very thorough analysis said that the overall fatality rate was about 1%, though much higher initially in Wuhan after the local health system collapsed.

    This was what I read in my NYT and WSJ, and what everyone knowledgeable was discussing on blogs dealing with the crisis that I examined.

    Our elite MSM like the NYT and WSJ certainly have severe flaws, which I’ve written about at great length. But their journalists are at least (usually) competent enough to correctly report basic facts like the assumed fatality rate of a dangerous new disease.

    Meanwhile, random bloggers/Tweeters, fringe-activists, and TV people either accidentally or deliberately misinterpret a perfectly correct statement by the WHO and then say all sorts of ridiculous and crazy things that eventually lead other people to react by becoming Flu Hoaxers.

    Put another way, I’ve been following the Coronavirus outbreak pretty carefully since January and didn’t even realize that anyone anywhere had ever seriously claimed it had an average fatality rate of over 3%…

  864. @anonymous

    So far, nothing. No refutation, no rationalization, just … silence.

    You are referring to a television media story (ABC News in USA and Channel 12 in Israel) that had no named sources nor any subsequent corroboration, and was later explicitly denied as false.

    A recent essay here by Pepe Escobar, with the title posed as a question, was essentially based on his wishful premise that the story was true. (See my comments in the comment section there for details.)

    A bunch of fascist China worshippers have obsessively grasped onto this story in a similar manner as the Democratic Party believed the fake story of Trump colluding with Russian “meddling” in US elections in 2016.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  865. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    “So they have chosen silence in the hope that the question it will go away. Sites like this, and commentators like us, will make sure that it won’t.”

    Yeah, I’m sure they’re quaking in their boots as they cut Ron another check.

  866. Ron Unz says:
    @The Scalpel

    Damn sarcasm from a “gold star”.

    Actually, I very much tend to doubt that AnonFromTN was being sarcastic, and I’d think his suggestion was absolutely sincere.

    But given the very long and difficult hours you’ve been putting in and some of the nasty comments coming from random troublemakers and Flu Hoaxers, I can understand why you might assume otherwise and react accordingly…

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @The Scalpel
  867. @cranc

    John Hopkins only seems to give case fatality rates that range between 3% and 15%.

    For the record, the Worldometer fatality rate of all world cases that had an outcome (recovery or death), yet not including still pending cases, currently happens to be [203020/(203020+834410)] = 19.57%

    Factoring pending cases would be premature. Of course this is a different measurement than those that are based on the entire population, but nearly one in five registered and concluded cases having resulted in death is still a lot.

  868. @Godfree Roberts

    I’m surprised you don’t have an online subscription to The Australian. Here is the article:

    Horton torment after poking the dragon
    Gangs outside the home, constant threats, their business hacked… four years after swimmer Mack Horton outed a Chinese rival as a drug cheat, his family still pays the price.

    By LUKE SLATTERY

    Andrew and Cheryl Horton. Picture: Julian Kingma
    Andrew and Cheryl Horton. Picture: Julian Kingma
    From The Weekend Australian Magazine
    April 25, 202021 MIN READ275

    [MORE]

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    On a mild October day last year Cheryl Horton was cleaning the backyard pool at the family home – a chore she rigorously avoids until it can be ignored no longer – when the vacuum head made a curious grinding sound. She raised the appliance, felt beneath it, and winced with pain. Blood coursed down her hand, dripping into the pale water. She called to her husband, Andrew, and together they discovered a “bucketload” of broken glass on the floor of the pool. She holds one of these centimetre-thick glass chunks, ­glinting like a rough-cut diamond, as she speaks. “We keep it on the desk in the study,” she says, “as a reminder of how bad things got.”

    The couple knew immediately where the ­broken glass had come from, and why it was there. Just three months earlier their son, ­Olympic 400m freestyle gold medallist Mack Horton, had refused to join Chinese swimmer Sun Yang, a three-time Olympic gold medallist and 11-time world champion, on the medal podium at the World Championships in the South Korean city of Gwangju. Horton had just won silver in the 400m freestyle; Sun Yang gold. Mack Horton’s mute ­protest – standing up for clean sport by refusing to stand beside Sun – unleashed a wave of hostility more disturbing than anything the family had ever experienced. And since their son famously labelled Sun a drug cheat at the 2016 Rio Olympics, they’ve experienced a lot. “We’ve had so many death threats that we’ve stopped taking them seriously,” says Andrew with a grim chuckle.

    Mack Horton, left, refuses to join gold medallist Sun Yang, centre, on the podium at Gwangju, South Korea, in July last year. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
    Mack Horton, left, refuses to join gold medallist Sun Yang, centre, on the podium at Gwangju, South Korea, in July last year. Picture: Quinn Rooney/Getty Images
    At the Rio Olympics, before competition had even begun, Horton says Sun tried to provoke him in a warm-up pool by splashing water and hurling abuse as they both paused at the ends of their lanes. Asked by a reporter afterwards about the contretemps, Mack coolly replied that Sun had “splashed me to say hello, and I didn’t respond because I don’t have time for drug cheats”.

    “That was the moment our lives changed,” says Andrew. “That’s when it all started.”

    Mack’s remark in Rio, a reference to a three-month suspension his Chinese rival had served in 2014 for taking a banned stimulant, detonated across all forms of media – print, television and internet – with the force of a depth charge. Within 45 minutes, some 680,000 slurs, insults and death threats had assailed Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and the Chinese social media ­platform Weibo. His Wikipedia entry was later trolled. Mack was dog shit, a racist, destined for the Paralympics, and perhaps a nuclear bomb strike. He must apologise. Or else.

    A week later, with Mack and his parents still in Rio, there was a break-in at the family home in the blue-chip Melbourne suburb of Glen Iris. Andrew’s business – he runs an educational ­technology company – also began to experience relentless cyber attacks that could only be mitigated, he says, by denying access from China.

    After Mack’s theatrical and somewhat passive-aggressive follow-up protest in South Korea last year, “the hate”, as the family calls it, rose to another level of intensity. Dog turds were hurled at the family home; their trees and plants were poisoned. A passing parade of youths gathered at the back fence to chant slogans while banging pots and pans in the dead of night, or stood in the driveway hurling abuse. Someone who spoke broken English took to phoning Andrew every second day to detail what he would like to do to his daughter (he has no daughter). And there was the broken glass in the family pool.

    “The biggest change was the intensity,” says Andrew. “It was unrelenting. Every day and night in the second half of 2019, peaking in September, easing off in February this year.” It relented in the same month that Sun received an eight-year ­suspension for destroying a blood ­sample in an out-of-competition doping test.

    Horton, who has regular and ongoing ­security briefings about threats to his family, has been informed that his assailants call themselves ­“Confucianists”. The 5th century BC ­Chinese ­philosopher has been revived in recent years as a national icon by a Chinese Communist Party seeking ethical moorings outside its founding credo of Maoism, and his name has become a codeword for Chinese nationalism. Sun himself seemed to invite a nationalist interpretation of Horton’s comments in Rio, saying: “Disrespecting me was OK, but ­disrespecting China was unfortunate.”

    Andrew harbours no ill-will towards Sun’s ­supporters, believing on the advice of ­security officials that they are acting under instructions from the Chinese Communist Party, either directly or indirectly, and “have little choice”. He is concerned, in fact, that some of them will be “beaten up, or worse, if they don’t comply”. He declines, on security grounds, to specify the assistance given to his family by police and security agencies; he’ll only say that he is “very grateful”. The fenced-in suburban family home is by social convention a kingdom, but for the Hortons it is a kingdom under siege.

    The family’s challenges are part of a broader pattern of harassment and intimidation of the Chinese Communist Party’s critics and dissenters. Says a national security analyst who keeps a close eye on the case, and spoke on condition of ­anonymity: “The Hortons’ story is very disturbing… It says something about the reach of foreign ­powers within Australia.” Clive Hamilton, professor of public ethics at Charles Sturt University, tells me: “Australians should know that China’s secretive Ministry of State Security has been carrying out a campaign of intimidation in this country against critics of the regime. It’s illegal and nasty.” Hamilton, co-author of the upcoming Hidden Hand: Exposing How the Chinese Communist Party is Reshaping the World, says ASIO is trying to monitor activities of this kind. “I hope we see some arrests and prosecutions soon. When that happens, we can expect the usual hysterical ­denials and calculated outrage from the Chinese embassy, state newspapers and the Party-affiliated Chinese-language media in Australia.”

    It’s understood that no arrests have been made in the Horton case, which has been kept from the public gaze. The Hortons report a “constantly revolving cast of characters” at their fence and in their driveway. If any were apprehended by police they would be questioned, cautioned, released, and another would take their place. “This is not an amateur operation,” remarks a security insider.

    Politically motivated attacks on non-Chinese Australians are rare, but not unknown. In July last year a University of Queensland student, Drew Pavlou, a vocal critic of the university’s ties with Chinese organisations, says he was assaulted while leading a pro-Hong Kong rally on campus. “In the aftermath I saw my social media flooded by ­hundreds of abusive ­messages from supporters of the Chinese government,” says Pavlou, who is Greek-Australian. “There were dozens of threats in Mandarin and English. They threatened to kill me and my family, to rape my mother. It’s a terror ­tactic to silence critics of the Chinese government.’’ Another position on the spectrum of debate about Chinese influence in Western society is occupied by John Keane, professor of politics at the University of Sydney, who warns about the “prejudice known as Orientalism” and points to “the treatment of Sun Yang by Australian xenophobes”.

    Sun rose to fame in China when he became the first Chinese man to win an Olympic gold medal in swimming in 2012 (he won two: the 400m and 1500m). So when Horton defeated the Chinese superstar in the 400m in Rio, on the evening of August 6, 2016, it was bound to ramp up tensions.

    Almost immediately Swimming Australia, the sport’s governing body, received letters from its Chinese equivalent threatening reprisals over Horton’s “drug cheat” claims. Shortly after the expiry of the deadline these letters had set for an apology, Swimming Australia’s website was hacked and crashed. Around this time, the Australian Census website went down after it was hit by ­concerted cyber attacks launched from overseas, in a major embarrassment for the Turnbull ­government and the Australian Bureau of Statistics. Some tech commentators have speculated that these attacks were part of the blowback from Rio.

    But there was one lighter moment to the post-Rio backlash. Horton’s coach, Craig Jackson, took six months off to travel around South America and in the jungles of Colombia he met a group of British students who told of a friend in the UK by the name of Matt Horton. “His Instagram account had been bombarded with insults by Sun’s ­supporters,” Jackson says. “He even wrote to Mack to ask him to please apologise.”

    Mack Horton. Picture: Speedo (2018)
    Mack Horton. Picture: Speedo (2018)
    The Hortons are happy to tell the story of their “grand adventure”, as they like to call it – and in the telling, to put it behind them. I catch up for a video call with Andrew, 53, and Cheryl, 52, a month after the announcement of Sun Yang’s eight-year ban – a punishment that will likely end his career, barring a successful appeal. It’s late March, and the 2020 Tokyo Olympics have just been postponed. Mack, a 24-year-old La Trobe University business management ­student when he is not chewing up laps in the pool, marked the suspension of training with his first drink in a long time – a negroni – and a handful of almond croissants. But now he has been advised to “shut down” any media engagements amid security concerns: his mother had spied a “serious” drone above the house. Things that had once seemed extraordinary – death threats, abuse, home invasions – are now the wallpaper of their domestic lives. Andrew insists that his son’s protest in South Korea last year was as unrehearsed as his “drug cheat’’ remark in Rio. “It’s not about the result and it’s not about China and it’s not about Sun Yang,” he says. “For Mack, it’s all about clean sport.”

    Andrew and Cheryl were in the stands at Rio watching the races when they felt the first ripples of all this. “I saw John Bertrand [president of Swimming Australia] and Mark Anderson [CEO] running towards us with a bunch of support staff,” Andrew recalls. “John asked if I’d had a conversation with Mack about what he was going to say about Sun Yang and I said, ‘No. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve no idea what he’s going to say’. At that point John told me [that Mack had made the drug cheat claim] and I went, ‘Oh… ok-ay’.”

    Immediately, and without his knowledge, a Brazilian special forces commando was assigned to shadow the swimmer. His parents, too, had ­protection; wherever they went they noticed the same two “friendly” young men nearby. “It was only when we were leaving the hotel and saw them putting machine guns into the boot that the penny dropped,” says Cheryl.

    Since the Rio games there have been suggestions that Mack’s outing of Sun, made between the heats and the final, was merely astute pre-event gamesmanship: in the 400m freestyle final Sun was more than one and a half seconds off his ­winning London Olympics time, and immediately after the race was filmed in tears. Others speculate that it was a way for Mack, at his first Olympics, to spur himself on. He told reporters after the event: “The last 50 metres I was thinking about what I said and what would happen if he gets me here.” Craig Jackson tells me there was “no preconceived plan to say any of that, but after he made the ­comments he had to live up to his words. Mack certainly enjoys the big stage, and there is no stage bigger than the Olympics.”

    The heats for Mack’s other big event, the 1500m freestyle, were held the following week. The night before, during an interview for Australian tele­vision, Andrew noticed his phone light up with text messages. Two suspicious vans had been ­spotted outside the family’s home, where their other son Chad was preparing for his Year 12 exams. Andrew shows me one of the texts from a concerned neighbour, which reads: “The garage door was open and so was the house and Mila [the ­family dog] is missing. The alarm is going off now I am waiting for the police to arrive.”

    Cheryl cuts a sharp look at her ­husband as he tells me this. “This is news to me as well,” she says. “Well I’m letting you know,” Andrew continues. “At around that time the school contacted us by SMS to say they were getting threats concerning Chad. He was actually doing a practice exam so he was escorted out of the school and spent the rest of the Olympics at his mate’s house.” Nothing was stolen from the home, and the dog eventually returned. “By the time the police arrived they’d hightailed it.”

    Mark Anderson, former CEO of Swimming Australia, vividly recalls meeting the Hortons in a stairwell of the stadium at Rio soon after their son’s victory in the 400m freestyle. “They were trying to celebrate what was the biggest moment in Mack’s career,” he says. “I was hearing of the break-in at home where the son was still ­living. They were concerned about Mack in the intense environment in Rio and their son a world away at home. They were justifiably concerned about the safety of both children. The celebration was tinged with concern – it was etched on their faces. But it says something about them that they were able to conduct themselves with dignity throughout.”

    Fair play: “For Mack, it’s all about clean sport.” Picture: Speedo (2018)
    Fair play: “For Mack, it’s all about clean sport.” Picture: Speedo (2018)
    The following year Mack Horton told reporters that the ferocity of the blowback – the threats and harassment aimed at him and his family – had changed nothing. “I think I would do the same thing even if I knew the outcome.” And so, two years later, he did. Andrew and Cheryl were back in the stands to cheer on their son at the World Championships in South Korea. They didn’t know he was considering another protest. “But in hindsight we knew something was going to happen,” Cheryl admits. “There was an expectation – you could feel it in the air. Either Mack was going to protest, or someone else would.”

    Her son’s actions are immortalised in the ­iconography of competitive sport. In footage of the event, silver medallist Mack, lantern-jawed and bespectacled like a blond Clark Kent, congratulates Italian bronze medallist Gabriele Detti with a handshake but ignores his gold medallist Chinese rival. When it dawns on Sun that Horton won’t stand next to him on the podium his expression stiffens, and he offers a strained smile. None of the three medal winners in this awkward tableau seems to be playing the standard part: Horton, the steely protester, is resolute yet anxious, uncertain. Nor is there much joy in the smiles Sun and Detti are able to muster. When the trio walks off the stage Sun waves to the crowd, but his smile has once again curdled; Horton brings up the rear with long strides, arms clasped behind his back.

    Fresh in the mind of Horton and every ­swimmer at those championships was a recent report in the UK Sunday Times detailing how three anti-doping testers had arrived at Sun’s home in September 2018 to administer out-of-competition blood and urine tests. Blood was taken at a nearby clubhouse. In the early morning, after a clash between Sun and the ­officials about their accreditation, qualifications and behaviour – ­followed by a lengthy standoff – blood samples were allegedly destroyed by Sun’s entourage on the instructions of Sun’s mother Ming Yang. In January 2019 – three weeks before publication of the damning Sunday Times investigation – the sport’s global governing body, FINA, had cleared Sun of wrongdoing on a technicality. So when Mack Horton refused to mount the ­winners’ podium his protest was as much against FINA’s inaction as it was against Sun.

    As the medal ceremony was playing out he heard roars of approval from his fellow athletes. But his parents, who were sitting in a spectator stand opposite, heard only the boos and jeers from Sun Yang’s supporters. “It ramped up after that,” recalls Andrew. Next day a security official told him that in 24 hours “Australian consular officials in China had received more than nine million messages and not one of them was pleasant”. The day after, his company was again targeted.

    The following day father and son spoke. It was a testy conversation. “In the athlete’s village they have very little idea of what’s happening outside,” says Andrew. “Athletes turn off their social media and disconnect. I explained to Mack that while I fully support his stance, he just needs to be mindful that these things have flow-on implications. It’s the only time we’ve had a serious disagreement.”

    “But if nobody stands up, nothing changes,” says Cheryl. “I get that,” replies Andrew, turning to address his wife directly. “But he just hadn’t ­considered the full implications.”

    Mack’s silent snub again made global news. It also set off a chain reaction. A few days later ­British swimmer Duncan Scott, who was placed joint third in the 200m freestyle, also refused to join Sun for pictures on the winner’s podium or to shake his hand. Sun confronted Scott and called him a “loser”. Scott and Mack received official warnings from FINA, and both were overwhelmed by death threats from Sun’s fans on social media.

    Craig Jackson, Mack’s coach, wasn’t in South Korea that night. He recalls a conversation with Mack a week before the championships that ­suggested his charge was stewing over the issue of clean sport, and might have been pondering a protest. “I don’t recall the exact words,” Jackson says. “But he didn’t rule it out… We’d spoken a lot about clean sport, and I knew his position. He’s true to his values.” He watched Mack’s protest at the medal presentation from his lounge. “To be honest I agree 100 per cent with the statement he’s making but as a coach I’m sitting there going, ‘You know, I’d prefer you didn’t do that.’”

    Mack was well aware of the burden borne by his family after the comment about Sun in Rio. Why then, having poked the dragon and felt the heat, go for Sun again in South Korea? “It says something about his laser-like focus on swimming as well as he can and as fast as he can, and his feelings about fairness in his sport,” Andrew reflects. “And I think he is insulated from a lot of things. One day he’ll have a family of his own and he’ll look back with a better appreciation of how much background support he had.” Mack later spelt out what the protest was, and wasn’t, about: “This isn’t a China-Australia thing. This isn’t a China versus the world thing. This is a principle in the way the sport is governed and controlled.”

    In February this year FINA’s decision to clear Sun was overturned on an appeal from the World Anti-Doping Authority to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), which slapped Sun with an ­eight-year suspension. The unanimous verdict was a blow to FINA’s prestige and authority, and to Sun and his family’s fortunes. And it was a stunning vindication of Mack Horton’s stance.

    Andrew Horton is inclined to view Sun – an only child with boyish movie-star looks who is unafraid to show his emotions in victory or in loss – as the “victim” of an enormously powerful ­system with a vast global reach. He points to a recent post from Ming Yang, made after her son’s eight-year ban, in which she alleges an official cover-up over his 2014 doping penalty and rages against his legal team at the CAS hearing. Chinese authorities had initially kept Sun’s three-month suspension in 2014 under wraps, revealing it to the public after he had competed in the Asian Games of September that year. In her since deleted post, Ming Yang alleges that the Chinese Swimming Association manipulated the timing of the news so that his results at the Asian Games – three gold and one silver – would remain intact.

    In her post Ming Yang gives a touching insight into the family life of a Chinese swimming star: “I couldn’t sleep at night, powerless and helpless. My son struggled in the swimming pool for more than 20 years, and was strangled by power and lies.”

    Even at the age of 10, before swimming had taken hold of his life, Mack Horton was unusually attuned to the spirit of fair play. “This is a kid who as a young basketball player used to throw the ball to players on the other team who he thought ­weren’t getting a fair go,” recalls his father. “Needless to say, he didn’t get very far with basketball.”

    In another life Mack’s sensitivity to injustice might have propelled him into an altruistic profession, but his mother’s feeling for water had a large bearing on his passion for the pool. When Cheryl first started dating the man she would marry – both hail from Perth – a big moment in their courtship was her discovery of his family’s pool. “I could never get her out of the water,” Andrew recalls. “Cheryl and the boys just love the water: the feeling of it flowing over their bodies. It’s in their DNA. It’s like a drug.”

    Asked if she recalls how she passed on this ­passion to her youngest son, Cheryl makes a dunking motion. “He was a reluctant swimmer,” she laughs. “Scared of the water. But once he put his head under he loved it. He couldn’t stop.”

    By 2008, 12-year-old Mack was showing great promise – he had the hunger and what his father describes as the “natural metrics of a world-class swimmer”. Even then, though, Andrew wasn’t sure if Mack knew what he was letting himself in for: the pain as well as, just perhaps, the fame. “Do you really want this?” he asked his son one day. Mack turned towards him with a “deadset straight in the eyes” gaze. “But Dad, you don’t seem to understand,” he said. “When I swim I feel like I’m flying. And the faster I swim the ­better it feels.” Andrew felt his chest tighten, as if he had seen his future. He called Cheryl to say, “We’re going to have to get used to this. It’s not going to go away. It’s going to need the support of the whole family.”

    “I knew it would have a huge impact,” he tells me. “Swimming can be brutal on families.” And yet Mack “loved the toughness”, Andrew says. “The pain was nothing to him.” He wanted it so badly that some time in his 13th year he pasted the world record time for the 1500m freestyle on his ceiling. The Hortons like to think of themselves as an “ordinary” family; in their pursuit of normality they’ve banished swimming trophies and photos – even swimming as a conversation topic – from the family home. But they’ve kept the old 1500m record on the ceiling of Mack’s room. “We kept telling him as he was growing up that he was an ordinary person who did some extraordinary things,” says Andrew. The desire to ground the child who was flying in the pool is one reason Andrew and Cheryl felt no shame forcing their myopic son onto the tennis court from time to time. “It was a way of bringing home to him that he was just a mug like the rest of us.”

    The way Andrew tells it, Mack’s alma mater, Caulfield Grammar, approached him in January last year for guidance with its new $25 million aquatic centre. Both father and son were chuffed by the idea. Andrew was on good terms with the school and he, together with Craig Jackson, who was asked for his expertise in high performance swimming programs, offered their help. “For most of the year we were talking with the school once or twice a week,” he recalls. “Mack and I also were participating in school events.”

    But around October – three months after Mack’s protest in Gwangju and coincidentally the same month Cheryl found a bucketload of glass in the family pool – Andrew and Craig felt the school had cooled towards them. Calls that were once answered promptly were now ignored. Around this time, Andrew believes, the school’s contract with its Nanjing campus in China, which hosts Caulfield Grammar’s Year 9 students each year for a five-week program, came up for renegotiation. The school’s Wikipedia entry makes no mention of Mack Horton in its entry on sporting alumni. Instead it notes the achievements of Chris Judd and John Schultz – Brownlow Medallists – and John Landy, who held the men’s mile record in the 1950s.

    In February this year, after media reports alleged that Caulfield Grammar had scrapped plans to name its aquatic centre after Mack ­Horton, principal Ashleigh Martin moved to ­defuse the issue, labelling the reports incorrect. “The school has not started a process for naming the facility after any individual, or decided at this time if it will be named after any individual,” the ­statement read. “Caulfield Grammar School and its community have great pride, respect and ­admiration for Mack Horton, as both an Olympic swimmer and as a Caulfield Grammarian.”

    While Andrew points out that “swimming fast doesn’t entitle you to have a building named after you”, he has at least one powerful ally in Gina Rinehart, Swimming Australia’s patron. “Like many Australians I was very surprised in relation to Caulfield Grammar, as any school should be thrilled to bits to be able to have Mack as alumni,” she tells me by email. “I did ask his ­parents if they would like me to write to the school to mention this on Mack’s behalf, but they did not wish this, saying Mack’s focus is on training.”

    Things have changed dramaticall y for the ­Hortons since Sun Yang was given the ­eight-year ban. The “hate” has lost much of its heat. Sun, ­disgraced, has been derided online by many of his former fans; Mack, once widely vilified, has been publicly vindicated. Andrew, who claims to have much sympathy for Sun and his parents, shares, at the very least, something of their pain as families dedicated to their athletically elite offspring.

    Mack Horton was prepared to make a stand for clean sport. But there is a pyrrhic quality to his moral victory, for it has taken a heavy toll on ­family, friends, neighbours and a largely invisible web of support. “It’s been a grand adventure,” reflects Andrew. “But it’s certainly not what we anticipated when we chose to encourage our children in sport.”

    • Replies: @FB
  869. DaveE says:
    @Sean

    If one starts from the assumption that the US may have created COVID-19 and used it to carry out a bioweapon attack on China, it is but a short step to thinking that the Chinese have retaliated.

    I agree, but don’t think the Chinese can’t be framed for a “retaliation” to an event that never happened. (((They’ve))) had a LOT of practice doing just that….. don’cha know.

    It’s still early in the game. The zionists always create a straw-man enemy before launching any new false-flag or false-“poisecution” (holohoax) operation.

  870. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Then shouldn’t he be resting instead of posting on an Internet blog?

    • LOL: Brás Cubas
  871. @Godfree Roberts

    I am flabbergasted. It is obviously more urgent and important for a dual US-Australian citizen who wants to improve the world to know about the US, but you seem to know nothing about Australia.

    “Ongoing genocide of its native people” is so absurd that I had better not pretend that it deserves an answer. You could of course distinguish the roles of the six states and the Northern Territory and that of the Commonwealth.

    “Ongoing wage suppression” is equally absurd. Whether you look at the facts over recent decades or policy decisions you just don’t have a feather to fly with. There has been been typically Australian beat up of scandals about underpayments to casual workers, often foreign students, but that is not about “suppression of wages”: evidence rather of the reverse.

    “Ongoing invasions of peaceful countries” Yup, still not able to fully withdraw from peaceful Afghanistan!!! Anything else to bravely undermine your credibility on subjects of which your readers know less and might have been inclined to believe you?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Iris
    , @Godfree Roberts
  872. @FB

    Indeed an open forum but a civil would- be contributor is one who, in terms applicable to conversation, listens carefully to make sure he understands the points being addressed and then says “I couldn’t help overhearing…. have you considered X,Y and Z” at least if he is going to blast off at one of the conversationalists without restraint.

    • Replies: @FB
  873. naill says:

    Some governments took full advantage of the early warning and scientific information provided by China.

    The US Government was clearly not one of those taking full advantage of the warnings and scientific information. Of particular interest, testing was delayed by a month. And most readers came to the conclusion that it was due to a bumbling government and unprepared officials.

    Given that the US is the sole super power and there are very knowledgeable people within the administration, one could ask, how on earth was it not possible for any one from a group of intelligent people not know this could be a problem for the US even if there were some bumbling ones? The US is not a third world country with no knowledge of pandemics. The US has very capable people who have a deep knowledge of viruses and infectious diseases. The US has a top intelligence organisation with very wide networks.

    Upon watching Event 201 (a rehersal which would have been fresh on the minds of some very influential people given that it was carried out in October 2019) there were many accurate conclusions made of the chain of events that could unfold from an outbreak. They even foresaw that the disease was so infectious that it was spreading through all the continents. Looking at it from this angle, why was the US not more concerned when news of the disease first broke out? How was it that they were the only country looking for a statement that said there was no human to human transmission. Why did they not even question that statement when the outbreak and deaths were being reported? Why did they delay testing by a month?

    New data on antibodies from the US is interesting. The number of infected people are much much higher than reported. Why are the US numbers not lining up with those of other countries? Are they hiding something that might be revealed?

    Now with this new information out, Trump is acting even more bumbling and stupid with his remarks on disinfectant. Is Trump really so foolish about disinfectants? Or is it to distract us from looking for the truth?

  874. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Anything else to bravely undermine your credibility on subjects of which your readers know less and might have been inclined to believe you?

  875. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Sorry…I thought I was only tinkling on your head without ‘restraint’…😉

  876. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:

    Another sign of how low this blog has sunk: the Wiz is the voice of reason here.

  877. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Anything else to bravely undermine your credibility on subjects of which your readers know less and might have been inclined to believe you?

    Australia has avoided recession only by implementing the largest world immigration program per capita, by inflating a housing bubble based on mortgage debt which makes her ratio of private-debt-to-GDP the second highest in the world, and has seen her consumer spending declining steadily and consistently over the decade

    I wonder how all this congregated factors can NOT result in a steady decrease in personal income?

    Economics Pr Steve Keen, who is Australian, on Australia’s looming debt-driven recession:
    It is even worse for us, we are the last idiot on the block.”

  878. geokat62 says:

    The Cato Institute provides the best explanation to date of where the Imperial College models went off the rails.

    Excerpts from, How One Model Simulated 2.2 Million U.S. Deaths from COVID-19:

    [MORE]

    The key premise of 81% of the population being infected should have raised more alarms than it did. Even the deadly “Spanish Flu” (H1N1) pandemic of 1918-19 infected no more than 28% of the U.S. population. The next H1N1 “Swine Flu” pandemic in 2009-10, infected 20-24% of Americans…

    In short, the Imperial College projection that 81% of the U.S. population could be infected if everyone just did literally nothing to protect themselves or others is inconsistent with rational risk avoidance, history and recent experience. Even with a much smaller percentage infected, however, deaths could still end up extremely high if nearly 1% of those infected died, as the Ferguson team assumed

    Epidemiologists have since found growing evidence that the number of undetected cases with few symptoms or none is much larger than merely doubling the small number of known and tested cases. A review of such research by the Oxford University Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine finds “a presumed estimate for the COVID-19 IFR somewhere between 0.1% and 0.36%.” A middling estimate of 0.22% would by itself reduce the infamous 2.2 million death estimate to half a million even if 81% were somehow infected.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths-covid-19

  879. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    My apologies. I stand corrected on the misinterpretation. Actually, I am honored that you would suggest that. So much so, that On first pass I did not believe it was a real suggestion. I owe you one flame directed at me.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
    , @AnonFromTN
  880. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    My apologies to AnonFromTN. I stand corrected on the misinterpretation. Actually, I am honored that he would suggest that. So much so, that on first pass I did not believe it was a real suggestion. I owe him one flame directed at me. In addition to this sincere apology, if I could remove that reply entirely, I would do it.

  881. @Sean

    China is concentrating on being strong against bullying from foreign powers and even such perfectly rational hygienic measures as requests for China to mandate closing down of the wet markets are perceived as gratuitous bullying by the West, despite two devastating viruses in 18 years!

    What makes you an expert in health, hygiene and nutrition? Are you disease free? Do you have a body like the statue of David without exercise? Do you or will you look like this in your 60’s and 70’s following your current diet? The Elites have been lying about everything including food and nutrition. Wet markets exist everywhere in the World except in the “Western developed economies”. If you are in the USA, just drive across the border to Mexico…wet markets in every town. The Western Corporations want to control what everyone eats in this World; first for profit and second to prevent people from knowing what our ancestors knew; “fresh food is the only medicine you need”. Animal foods is most nutrient dense when it is raw. The more you cook it, the less nutrient dense. Any food connoisseur knows freshly killed animals eaten ASAP taste best. Prior to modern food, there was practically ZERO need for vitamins, drugs and diseases like cardiovascular disease, diabetes, depression etc..were non-existent.
    Supermarkets are an American invention and have been around for just over 100 years. How do you think markets looked prior? If your gut bacteria is healthy, no clean animal killed and eaten “raw” or “cooked” can harm you. You can eat raw pork, beef, chicken, fish, goat, squirrels etc. The animal just needs to be raised “clean” and “natural”.

    Westerners around the world are discovering the truth. What you find disgusting is just “programming”. Here are a couple of examples:

    [MORE]

    Prefer a book:

    • Replies: @Sean
  882. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Amazing…

    Blizz Shnozz, against all odds, has managed to hit the Retard Trifecta…

    First he decides to jump on Godfree for calling out the idiotic Australian policy of signing up for the illegal, neocon invasion of Iraq…

    Then he ‘explains’ that this was ‘understandable’…considering the Oz premier was in New York at the time of the 911 ‘terrorist attacks’ [😂]…

    And then he tops off this smorgasbord of insanity by posting a fucking book length ‘article’ from some Australian magazine that tells the ‘shocking’ story of an Australian swimmer, whose family now is being ‘harassed’ [by the CCP, according to Blizz Shnozz]…

    Apparently the CCP is throwing dog turds into the swimmer’s family pool, because the Australian called his Chinese rival a drug cheat [after losing the race, and being a poor sport by refusing to stand on the podium with the gold-winning Chinaman]…

    Somewhat amusing perhaps, if true [💩], but one fails to see the connection with the Iraq War…911…the corona virus, or anything even remotely related to this discussion…

    I will only suggedt that Blizz Shnozz should stop getting his head tinkled on…it’s clearly not making him any smarter, as he’d hoped…

    • Agree: Alden
    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  883. utu says:
    @The Scalpel

    No, you were right the first time. For sure he was not sincere because of the last sentence “I can guarantee speedy treatment…”

  884. @idrankwhat

    Excess deaths are being observed throughout the world as reported in the NYT:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

    Whatever it is it is deadlier than the seasonal flu. But it would be ironic if the lockdown is killing rather than saving lives.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  885. JDTrader says:

    “Then on Jan. 23rd and after only 17 deaths, the Chinese government took the astonishing step of locking down and quarantining the entire 11 million inhabitants of the city of Wuhan, a story that drew worldwide attention. They soon extended this policy to the 60 million Chinese of Hubei province, and not longer afterward shut down their entire national economy and confined 700 million Chinese to their homes, a public health measure probably a thousand times larger than anything previously undertaken in human history. So either the China’s leadership had suddenly gone insane, or they regarded this new virus as an absolutely deadly national threat, one that needed to be controlled at any possible cost.”

    To me, this is further proof that the virus originated in the Wuhan lab. The Chinese government knew exactly how deadly this was because they created it. Why else lock down 700 million people?

    Did they react the same way to the Bird Flu?
    Did they react the same way to SARS?

    Just saying…

    • Thanks: Sean, Alden
  886. utu says:
    @The Scalpel

    Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell: Could COVID-19 be causing DIFFUSION hypoxemia?

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  887. @Wizard of Oz

    Czech writer Jaroslav Hasek has an excellent story “The affair of state importance” that begins thus: “His Royal Highness Prince Oxenhausen went senile so obviously, that even his ministers, who were not particularly bright, noticed that.” The story develops very logically, and the net result is, that it’s better to consider senile ruler normal, than face the truth. That describes current American political system to a tee.

  888. @The Scalpel

    Never mind. As my American grad students used to say, “shit happens”.

    • Thanks: The Scalpel
  889. Alden says:
    @Commentator Mike

    The NYSLIMES hasn’t published one truthful word since about 1920. Only liberals and Jews believe a word of that lying anti White propaganda sheet.

    Do you believe the Twana Brawley, Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown hoaxes and before that, the AIDS is actually a heterosexual disease and has nothing to do with promiscuous sodomy hoax propagated by the NYSLIMES?

    Then why believe this piece of propaganda?

    NYSLIMES really!

  890. Sean says:
    @dogbumbreath

    https://www.businessinsider.com/muslim-woman-describes-horrors-of-chinese-concentration-camp-2019-10?r=US&IR=T

    Recently, the plight of ethnic Uighurs in this part of China has gained international attention, with reports of organ harvesting coming to light at a meeting of the UN Human Rights Council in September. Sauytbay also described horrific conditions during her detention, including inadequate health care, crowding, and almost nonexistent hygiene. . A young woman, she says, was forced to disrobe after being forced to “confess” her sins in front of around 200 prisoners. The young woman was then raped by several police officers, Sauytbay said. “While they were raping her they checked to see how we were reacting. People who turned their head or closed their eyes, and those who looked angry or shocked, were taken away and we never saw them again.”

    Several majority-Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, defended China’s methods in a letter in July.

    Paul Ewald:

    COVID-19 may evolve greater virulence by circulating in a population of people kept in close, unhygienic quarters, such as the estimated one million Uighur Muslims being held in detention camps in Xinjiang, north-west China

  891. Alden says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Fewer overall deaths because fewer people driving, everyone inside at night not being killed and robbed, drunks drink at home and don’t get in trouble wandering around , kids at hime, no bike, skateboard, drowning, hit by cars etc accidents, no industrial workers deaths because everything’s closed down, county coroners report fewer deaths than normal.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  892. denk says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    A bunch of fascist China worshippers

    When’r you gonna pay reparation to the Iraqis…just for starter ?

    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27c/080.html

  893. @Wizard of Oz

    Indigenous deaths in custody worsen in year of tracking by …www.theguardian.com › australia-news › aug › indigen… Aug 22, 2019 – Deaths inside: Indigenous Australian deaths in custody … Guardian Australia’s new analysis, which includes deaths reported via coronial …

    http://www.abc.net.au › wage-growth-remains-stagnant-in-q2
    Aug 13, 2019 – “Adjusted for inflation, wages rose by 0.8 per cent over the past year. For context, real wage growth has averaged just 0.2 per cent over the past six years.” … “With the unemployment rate at 5.2 per cent and underutilisation rate at 13.5 per cent there is still a huge amount of slack across the labour market, ” he said.

    Korean War, 1950‒53. Australia sent contingents from the three services to fight with the United Nations in Korea. Most of the UN force was American, but with contingents from other countries. The 3rd Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment (3 RAR) served from September 1951 to July 1953. Significant battles were Kapyong (April 1951) and Maryan San (October 1951).
    Malaya, 1950‒60. Australia sent units from the three services to assist Britain and the Malayan Government fight Communist Terrorists in the Malayan Emergency. Australian battalions served on rotation for periods of two years beginning in 1955. There were no major battles and only a few ambushes and patrol clashes.
    Malaysia, 1965‒66. Australian forces assisted Britain and Malaysia in countering Indonesia’s Confrontation with Malaysia. Two Australian battalions, two Special Air Service (SAS) squadrons and several engineer squadrons served in Borneo. There were several deadly ambushes and patrol clashes, but no major battles.

    South Vietnam, 1962‒72. Australian forces assisted South Vietnam and the United States in the Vietnam War. In 1962 Australia sent army advisers. In 1965 a battalion was deployed. The following year this battalion was replaced by a task force with two and later three battalions operating in Phuoc Tuy Province. The RAAF sent helicopters, Canberra Bombers and Caribou transport aircraft. The RAN generally had a ship operating offshore. Major battles were Long Tan (August 1966), Coral‒Balmoral (May 1968) and Binh Ba (June 1969).
    Australia’s Military History in the 1990s and the 21st Century
    After 1990 Australia again started sending troops overseas for combat operations, although on a much smaller scale than in earlier wars. The Australian forces were part of coalition operations, generally led by the United States.
    Gulf War, 1991. Australia sent mainly ships to assist the US-led coalition in the war with Iraq. There were no Australian deaths.
    Afghanistan, 2001‒02. Australia sent units from the three services to assist the United States. The SAS took part in several fierce battles.
    Iraq War 2003. Australia sent units from the three services to assist the US-led coalition in the invasion of Iraq. The SAS had several small battles but there were no Australian deaths.
    Iraq 2005‒09. Australia sent units from the three services to assist the US-led coalition maintain security in a vicious guerrilla war, but there were no Australian combat deaths.
    Afghanistan, 2005‒present. Australia sent units from the three services to assist the force organised by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The major Australian contribution was engineers, special operations troops and small numbers of infantry. There had been 16 deaths by June 2010.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Kapyong
  894. denk says:
    @JDTrader

    Another Pompeo clone !

    SARS

    iTS a race specific bioweapon.
    Here’s the proof.

    Whodunit ?

    Ever heard of PNAC ??

  895. Neoconned says:
    @Otto von Komsmark

    https://www.vox.com/2020/4/23/21226484/wuhan-lab-coronavirus-china

    Many of the “experts” think that the “accidental release” option isn’t the case but “is possible.”

    I see it as blatantly obvious….

    The fact that Mr. Unz, who is quite intelligent and personally wealthy is positing this is rather interesting. People who are quite smart are pointing out the obvious — including the glaring incident of our “military athletes” and what I’m sure were their spook entourages who came with them….

  896. @JDTrader

    Fortunately, the Wuhan lab has had US and French (and other nationalities) working in it since they helped China to set it up. One of them, Peter Daszak, disease ecologist and the president of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit that works globally to identify and study our vulnerabilities to emerging infectious disease, “I’ve been working with that [Wuhan] lab for 15 years. And the samples collected were collected by me and others in collaboration with our Chinese colleagues. They’re some of the best scientists in the world. There was no viral isolate in the lab. There was no cultured virus that’s anything related to SARS coronavirus 2. So it’s just not possible.” https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/peter_daszak_coronavirus

    Here’s an explanation for the shutdown, from China-resident, Belgian microbiologist, Valerie van Kerchove that I find plausible:

    I actually find the response by the Chinese government to be extremely interesting. It seems like it’s overblowing the matter on purpose. Considering the low number of cases (compared to China’s population) and low death rates, it feels like the Chinese government is overblowing fears on purpose, with maps filled with dark areas and shutting down everything everywhere (and this is during China’s most important holiday season).
    I suspect it’s practicing for when a Really serious disease breaks out, the sort with people dying like flies. So I find all this fuss quite interesting. We’ve been warned about a potential superbug outbreak for years, and now we can see how the response will look like. No doubt the Chinese government is busy taking notes on what it could have done better.
    Not to mention, I don’t think most Westerners realize just how big Wuhan is, just how significant Chinese New Year is in terms of people moving around and just how many people go in and out of those wet markets every day. That’s like, tens of thousands of people leaving the wet markets, taking public transport then going home to expose all their visiting relatives, and all those people in turn going to all sorts of crowded areas too. With a high enough contagion rate, we’d easily be at 1 million infected. The fact that we haven’t reached such numbers means that this virus isn’t That bad.

  897. @Sean

    The Uyghur story is entirely fictitious, America’s last, desperate effort to harvest something from 70 years of sponsoring terrorism in Xinjiang, according to US Ambassador Chas. H. Freeman, Director for Chinese Affairs at the U.S. Department of State from 1979-1981:

    “The CIA programs in Tibet, which were very effective in destabilizing it, did not succeed in Xinjiang. There were similar efforts made with the Uyghurs during the Cold War that never really got off the ground. In both cases you had religion waved as a banner in support of a desire for independence or autonomy which is, of course, is anathema to any state. I do believe that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones applies here. I am part American Indian and those people are not here (in the US) in the numbers they once were because of severe genocidal policies on the part of the European majority”. 8/31/18
    https://supchina.com/podcast/legendary-diplomat-chas-w-freeman-jr-on-u-s-china-strategy-and-history-part-3/

    Unsurprisingly, the “World Uyghur Congress” is tightly aligned with Washington’s foreign policy agenda and hostile new Cold War strategy which seeks to contain and impede the rise of China. The WUC regularly meets with and lobbies US and Western politicians, urging them to isolate and “increase the pressure on China”; ratchet up economic sanctions; curb ties with China, and withdraw Western companies from the region. The WUC celebrated the passage of The Uighur Act of 2019 by the US House of Representatives, in December 2019. The bill, which called on the Trump administration to enact sanctions against the Chinese government, was the latest in a string of anti-China achievements.

    This regime change apparatus has made its strongest impact through the media, providing a constant source of self-styled Uyghur dissidents and human rights horror stories to eager Western reporters. The exposure the WUC and its affiliates receive extends well beyond corporate media outlets known for echoing Washington’s foreign policy talking points.

    UNITED NATIONS, Oct. 29. 54 countries on Tuesday jointly voiced their support for China’s counter-terrorism and de-radicalization measures in its Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region at a UN session. Belarusian Permanent Representative to the United States Valentin Rybakov presented the statement on behalf of the 54 countries during a discussion on human rights at the Third Committee of the United Nations General Assembly, also known as the Social, Humanitarian, and Cultural Committee. Noting China’s people-centered development philosophy and remarkable development achievement, the statement spoke positively of the results of counter-terrorism and de-radicalization measures in Xinjiang. These measures “have effectively safeguarded the basic human rights of people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang,” according to the statement delivered at the session.
    The statement expressed opposition to relevant countries “politicizing the human rights issue” and called on them to stop baseless accusations against China.

    The World Muslim Council set inspectors to Xinjiang from 12 Muslim countries. Here’s a typical report from one, a prominent woman from Balochistan:

    [MORE]

    No cultural, religious repression of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang: Pakistan diplomat
    BEIJING: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/pakistan/no-cultural-religious-repression-of-uighur-muslims-in-xinjiang-pakistan-diplomat/articleshow/67675590.cms

    A senior Pakistani diplomat on Thursday put up a staunch defence of the controversial education camps in China’s volatile Xinjiang province where thousands of Uighur Muslims have been reportedly detained, saying there is no forced labour or cultural and religious repression in the region.

    China recently took diplomats from 12 countries with large Muslim populations, including India and Pakistan, to its Xinjiang province where tens of thousands of members of the minority Uighur Muslims have been interned in education camps.

    “During this visit, I did not find any instance of forced labour or cultural and religious repression,” Mumtaz Zahra Baloch, the Charge d’affaires, Pakistan’s Embassy in China, told the state-run Global Times on Thursday.

    “The imams we met at the mosques and the students and teachers at the Xinjiang Islamic Institute told us that they enjoy freedom in practicing Islam and that the Chinese government extends support for maintenance of mosques all over Xinjiang,” said Baloch, who visited Xinjiang as part of delegation of diplomats.

    “Similarly, I did not see any sign of cultural repression. The Uighur culture as demonstrated by their language, music and dance is very much part of the life of the people of Xinjiang,” she said.

    Asked about the security situation in Xinjiang, which has been “beset by terrorism”, Baloch said, “We learned that the recent measures have resulted in improvement of the security situation in Xinjiang and there have been no incidents of terrorism in recent months.”

    “The counter-terrorism measures being taken are multidimensional and do not simply focus on law enforcement aspects. Education, poverty alleviation and development are key to the counter-terrorism strategy of the Chinese government,” she said.

    Xinjiang’s regional government invited diplomatic envoys as well as representatives from Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Afghanistan, Thailand, and Kuwait following reports about detention of thousands of Uighur and other Muslims in massive education camps.

    The UN’s Geneva-based Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination last year said that it was alarmed by “numerous reports of ethnic Uighurs and other Muslim minorities” being detained in Xinjiang region and called for their immediate release.

    Estimates about them “range from tens of thousands to upwards of a million,” it had said.

    China defended the camps, saying they are re-education camps aimed at de-radicalising sections of the Uighur population from extremism and separatism.

    The US and several other countries besides UN officials have expressed concern over the camps.

    China has been carrying out massive crackdown on the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) in Xinjiang province, where Uyghurs who formed majority in the region were restive over the increasing settlements of Han community.

    Pakistan and several other Muslim countries faced criticism about their silence over China’s crackdown on Muslims in Xinjiang.

    China has about 20 million Muslims who are mostly Uighurs, an ethnic group of Turkic origin, and Hui Muslims, who are of the Chinese ethnic origin. While Uighurs lived in Xinjiang, bordering Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, Hui Muslims resided in Ningxia province.

    A recent report in the Global Times said China passed a five-year plan to ‘sinicize Islam’ in a bid to make it compatible with its version of socialism.

    “This is China’s important act to explore ways of governing religion in modern countries,” the report said.

    Baloch said the delegation was given full and open access to the three centres that they visited in Kashgar and Hotan.

    “The training program includes teaching of national common language (Chinese), law and constitution and vocational skills. The students also participate in recreational activities like sports, music and dance. We witnessed several skill classes being offered in these centres,” she said.

    “During the visits to these centres, we had the opportunity to interact with both the management and the students. We observed the students to be in good physical health. The living facilities are fairly modern and comfortable with separate dormitories for men and women. They are being served halal food,” she said.

    She said the Uighur language is being used in official establishments, airports, subway stations, police stations or hotels.

    “Even the copies of the Koran that we saw in the mosques and the Islamic centre were translated into the Uighur language. The most visible sign of protection of Uighur culture by the government is the government-run bilingual kindergarten schools where children learn Putonghua as well as Uighur language and culture from a very young age,” she said.
    Download The Times of India News App for Latest News.

    • Agree: dogbumbreath, Seraphim
  898. Jiminy says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    To say that Australia’s participation in Iraq only resulted in one loss of life is a rather blinkered view of the situation. I believe the number of suicides as a result of the fighting is on the web for all to find. My new neighbour stuck his head up over the fence one day and wanted to chat. He said that he was one of the early ones in Iraq and that his mission was to retrieve the computers. His eyes were tearing up when he was remembering what he saw over there. His way of coping, I found out later was to drown his sorrows in a daily diet of cheap wine. It seemed like every day he was plastered, in a blur. He lived by himself but occasionally his family visited. After moving out, I saw him the other day and he seemed a bit happier. He’s actually made himself a little home vegetable patch to see himself through this crazy period. But sadly there are a lot of people who don’t make it. And as for political sociopaths- I don’t really know what you would call a p.m. who spends his time lounging on the the beach in Hawaii while his country , his people and his cities burn.

  899. Biff says:
    @JDTrader

    To me, this is further proof that the virus originated in the Wuhan lab.

    What that is called is ‘speculative’. You really don’t have any kind of solid proof.
    Keep trying though….

  900. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:

    Let’s see now. The US Government lied to us about:

    [MORE]

    • the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana, Cuba, in 1898, leading to the Spanish–American War
    • the Lusitania carrying weapons and hence its sinking by Germany, cited as one reason for the entry of US into WWI
    • the “surprise” attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941
    • the use of chemical weapons against the Chinese & Koreans in the Korean War
    • JFK’s assassination using the “magic bullet theory” – a disgraceful insult to anyone’s intelligence
    • the Gulf of Tonkin incident used as a pretext to start the Vietnam War, as admitted by former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara
    • the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (could it possibly be more symbolic?), a flagged US ship in international waters on 8 June 1967
    • the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr, whose family successfully sued for wrongful civil death in 1999
    • the various non-standard accounts of RFK’s assassination who was shot at point-blank range from behind, but the accused Sirhan Sirhan, was standing in front of him.
    • Henry Kissinger’s masterminding carpet-bombing Cambodia and even hiding it from US Congress
    • the “babies out of incubators” to manufacture consent for the First Gulf War in Iraq, 1990/91
    • the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, using McVeigh & Nicholls as scapegoats. In the wake of the bombing the USG enacted several Antiterrorism legislative bills
    • 9/11 when 2 planes hit 2 buildings – yet 3 buildings collapsed (WTC7 collapsed at 5:20pm same day)
    • Iraq’s WMD’s “capability”
    • the Killing of Osama bin Laden (who died in 1999) https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/n10/seymour-m.-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
    • the Boston Marathon bombing 15 April 2013 pinned on patsies the Tsarnaev brothers
    • the apparent suicide of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of ISIL on 27 October 2019 – the third time he’d been “killed”.

    … but this time, THIS time, they’re telling us the truth about novel coronavirus.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  901. @anonymous

    Nothing wrong with the reasoning. Just the facts. There was high level denial of the story which had been quoted to me as a Times of Israel article which suggested US intelligence had been passed on to Israel. Of course I have no way of knowing whether the denial was true. I wonder who originated the ABC story.

  902. @Alden

    Alden,

    That’s what I would have thought, which makes the reported increases in deaths look even worse. I don’t trust the MSM and the NYT on much but surely even they cannot fake death statistics in so many different countries.

    • Replies: @Tsar Nicholas
  903. Anonymous[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @JackOH

    The administration of every college I’ve worked for have been gangsters who threaten the faculty’s research programs and professional reputation as a first step in any disagreement. They present as gangsters, and not very smart gangsters. This is the fundamental reason that universities have increasingly offered worthless educations.
    Government civil service outfit I’ve worked for have been essentially a coalition by long term employees against high level managers and in general anybody who wants to exert control over the outfit. You’re seeing such a coalition in action when you watch a Trump briefing on COVID-19.
    The major institutions of the West have become non-functional and unable to reform themselves. Islands of competence remain, but are islands with eroding shorelines and some threat of flooding.

    • Agree: JackOH
    • Replies: @Art
  904. @Iris

    Australia’avoidance of recession for about 30 years during which average, median and low incomes increased was mostly due to Chinese imports which got us through the only really testing time (till now) and allowed budget surpluses which facilitated anti recession measures by the Gillard and Rudd Labor governments, inept as they were, during the GFC. Don’t rely on Steve Keen who is like the pundit who predicted ten out of the last five bear markets. He even claimed to have sold his house in anticipation of a crash only to find that he had sold before another boom.

    By the way, until the Corona virus struck there were close to a million Asian students and tourists paying their way in Australia. Immigration has been relatively high but they tend to be IQ raising immigrants – and relatively young.

  905. @Godfree Roberts

    If you think that answers my objections to what you wrote I suggest you read what you and I wrote before you chose to go on digging.

  906. Anonymous[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @DaveE

    The actual Jews I’ve met haven’t seemed like supermen. They’ve actually presented as pathetic, with a pathological desire to win verbal points in any conversation. You can’t ask them to pass the salt without getting flack in return. Sometimes the flack is immediate, sometimes it’s delayed until a grand betrayal.
    But that’s it. No “master plan”, no great IQ (mine tests in the 140 range, so I’m qualified to judge this), no tremendous social abilities, just a great capacity for hatred (open or concealed but followed by betrayal). In hyperbolic terms, it’s razzle-dazzle followed by the secret deadly thrust. Every time. It gets old.
    So the general portrayal of Jews as being super-humanly smart just isn’t convincing. The razzle-dazzle succeeds now because there is no opposition to it. The West has finally disorganized itself by its own innovation, and almost any organized group has a free hand to do just about whatever it wants (consider AOC and her rather minuscule support organization). This won’t last over historical time spans, but it has been true since WW II.

  907. Parfois1 says:
    @Gegula

    Good answer and even better lesson for a writer who occasionally flounders into careless verbiage. Also a good wake-up call for his annoying slipshod stumbles. Cheers.

  908. Sean says:

    https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/china-says-theres-no-risk-of-a-covid-19-outbreak-in-xinjiang-camps-dont-believe-it/
    In December, China claimed to have released the more than 1 million Uyghurs and other persecuted peoples detained in “vocational training centers” as part of its campaign to “eradicate ideological viruses.” Shohrat Zakir, the chairman of the Uyghur region, told the press that everyone in the camps had “graduated” and were out and living “happy lives.”

    Lies. And self defeating because they won’t escape the consequences when of a vastly more virulent second wave in October (as happened in 1918).

  909. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Iris

    Wizard of Oz reads The Australian a misnomer, as its actually un-Australian. Its owner is the American Zionist Rupert Murdoch, also owner of FOX News in the US (aka ‘faux news’). Murdoch’s corporation in that country pays $ZERO corporate tax and is hell bent on state capture of Australia via:
    1. his parliamentary representation – 12 of his think tank’s operatives are in Parliament along with almost a dozen Israeli dual citizens (in contravention to s.44 of the country’s Constitution) as well as a sprinkling of MP’s & Upper House members in the parliaments of its six states;
    2. his huge wealth; and
    3. his influence – his daily newspapers have a 70% coverage, he owns Sky TV network, his son owns high-rating radio stations, he’s in cahoots with fellow zionist Summer Redstone’s CBS who owns the commercial TV network, Network 10, and has other connections e.g. shockjocks, in the Oz media.

    [MORE]

    Murdoch’s rags push a Far-Right ideological agenda in Australia and actively campaign against any democratically-elected government that that country elects, which doesn’t push the neo-liberal economic agenda of:

    • reduced taxes for corporations & the rich
    • small government (i.e. privatization of public assets into private hands & deregulation of industry)
    • dismantling the social security safety net of universal healthcare, life pensions, etc
    • wage suppression for Australian workers

    Unfortunately for people like our self-styled ‘Wizard’ they never reflect on how they’re brainwashed /programmed by continually being exposed to a deeply skewed Neo-conservative (aka fascist) worldview to accept a narrative that is against their own self interest &/or national interest of the country in which they live.

    Of course, the flaw in the ‘logic’ of their agenda is that they believe the sum of the parts, i.e. each individual, is greater than the whole – whereas in truth, the whole (of any system) is always greater than the sum of its parts.

    Remember former UK PM Margaret Thatcher’s infamous quote? She said: “There’s no such thing as society!”

    That should bring it home for you.

    Btw, I watched the Steve Keen interview you linked to (below). As an economist, Keen has made some spectacularly inaccurate predictions, but to be fair, everything he said in that interview was correct.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Parfois1, Iris
  910. Parfois1 says:
    @The Scalpel

    Thanks doc for answering the call by FB. It saved me from explaining to him (!!!) how the auto-immune system may cause blood clots (as when stopping the blood flow to a severed vessel to stopb lood loss) although I don’t know the mechanics of it. I suppose the production of a large number of antibodies (T-cells?) to fight a serious infection might lead to the clogging – in layman’s language. Cheers.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  911. @Iris

    …an early ancestor strain of the virus (Strain A) which existence precedes the daughter Strain B that caused the outbreak in Wuhan.

    This assertion is unwarranted, based on either the GISAID Phylogeny Tree information or the spreadsheet data from Forster’s Cambridge study. Earliest recorded gene sequences came from Wuhan on the tree (purple color related to Strain A) and estimated distance from root type (strain) A of 0 was also evident from an early sequencing sample in Wuhan.

    This had already been pointed out to you twice previously, on another thread (Roberts), yet you ignored the corrections and still persist in spreading misleading information here anyway.

    Also, only days ago, on another thread (Parry), you were provided with compelling proof from two commentators (scientific proof and visual evidence, respectively) that your crackpot assertion, namely that no aircraft could have possibly crashed into the World Trade Center (WTC) South Tower, as witnessed by tens of thousands of people on the ground and seen by millions of viewers on television, on September 11, 2001, had no firm basis. But you wouldn’t accept it and then persisted with a new nonsensical supposition by suggesting the wreckage evidence that exited the tower (landing gear and engine core on the sidewalk of lower Manhattan) must have cleverly been “planted” without notice amid thousands of onlookers on the streets.

    Just as you deny an aircraft hitting the WTC, you appear to be desperately obsessed with denying that a rapid viral progression had actually emerged in Wuhan and now want to insinuate that the outbreak must surely have occurred in the United States instead.

    Like shiny green flies swarming around a big pile of fresh excrement in the woods, you and others have been devouring vague and unsourced news items or inconclusive research announcements and then projecting wishful fantasies that cannot be deduced from them, in order to try to influence the perceptions of readers here, by trying to exploit their presumed gullibility or reenforcing their ideological bias.

    I get the impression that you are either mentally unstable or a paid disinformation agent, of which there must be a bunch who have been assigned to regularly congregate here.

    • Troll: Iris
  912. Parfois1 says:
    @The Scalpel

    Damn sarcasm from a “gold star”. I must be blessed.

    Oops! That’s a howler doc! “Anon from NT” was paying you compliment. An unfortunate misunderstanding, no doubt.
    Cheers

    • Replies: @FB
  913. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    Would you agree that the lock down has helped to contain what could have been a more pronounced crisis…particularly in regards to the health care system’s ability to deal with the crisis without being overwhelmed…?

    That is definitely the case. New York City is the perfect example. I remember being in Fort Lauderdale at the temporary coronavirus hospital at the end of March (24th or 25th). There was no traffic on the interstate. The beaches were closed (some say later than they should have been). The restaurants were all closed. Myself and the other doctors there were discussing how at risk NYC was and how it did not seem that they were adequately implementing social distancing in contrast to similar cities in China or even cities like Seattle and the State of Washington where the first large outbreak was recognized

    This was the case in NYC on March 30th.

    “They Can’t Afford to Quarantine. So They Brave the Subway.”

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/nyregion/coronavirus-mta-subway-riders.amp.html

    … subway stations in poorer neighborhoods are still bustling, as if almost nothing has changed…

    Now, the case in NYC on April 9th

    “New York Has Most COVID-19 Cases in World, Deaths Top 7k “

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-has-most-covid-19-cases-in-globe-cuomo-warns-of-more-death-even-as-curve-flattens/2366721/%3famp

    To date, nearly 220,000 have been infected and more than 9,000 people have died in NY, NJ and CT

    A bad flu season in New York state kills about 1,900 people a year. COVID-19 has done that in just the last three days

    Mayor Bill de Blasio acknowledged the real toll was likely higher, saying only COVID-19 could explain a recent massive spike in home deaths.

    Meanwhile, in the State of Washington on April 10th, there were 9887 total cases and 475 deaths

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/coronavirus-daily-news-updates-april-10-what-to-know-today-about-covid-19-in-the-seattle-area-washington-state-and-the-nation/%3famp=1

    Social distancing does work, and many people will do it spontaneously if they are not misled into believing there is no danger. On the other hand, with some guidance from experts and authority figures, the response is greater. ( I understand the risks to a free society here and also acknowledge that guidance and restrictions should end with the end of significant risk)

    The fact that social distancing is effective is reflected in the geographical distribution of cases. I advised my 78 year old father to return home to New York From Orlando because he is from rural upstate New York where cases of COVID -19 are very limited.

    • Replies: @FB
  914. denk says:
    @Been_there_done_that

    fascist China

    When’r you gonna pay reparation to Nicaragua ?

    I guess you wont, cuz you’r the biggest, meanest mofo in town.

    Since Nicaragua filed the suit in April 1984, the Administration has said that the World Court, as it is commonly called, has no jurisdiction to decide the case or others involving ongoing armed conflicts. The Court rejected this position by a vote of 15 to 1 in November.

    So the US apparently holds a perfect double standard when it comes to international law–it applies to you, but not to us.

    But here, for the record, are some of the ICJ’s 1986 rulings regarding Nicaragua’s complaints against the US. It should be noted that the ICJ had no army to force the US to comply, so it could only make its rulings according to internantional law and hope that the US would have enough dignity and respect for such decent moral concepts as international law and universality of application that it would comply with the findings.

    Alas, that was expecting too much. As a state, and with no morally-passionate domestic public to comply it to act properly, the US acted as states act–in its own interest. It totally ignored the ruling, and in 1992, after six years of silence and noncompliance by the US, Nicaragua had little choice but to remove the case from the ICJ’s books.

    https://politicalcrumbs.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/the-united-states-v-nicaragua-1984/

    • Replies: @barr
    , @vot tak
  915. USA as Wile E Coyote theory of COVID19 transmission.

  916. barr says:
    @denk

    The day Fox News instead of talking the bailout money received by Autocare or Potbelly spends time on bailout of banks and airlines . The day CNN talks about customers and citizen deriving the benefits from the activities of Fed or bailout of banks ,hedge funds or doles to , military instead of asking if the employees receiving any benefits from the bailout of small business “ who can raise money from the public “ in the market.

    • Replies: @denk
  917. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Parfois1

    The exact cause of the clotting in COVID19 patients is not clear. The virus attaches to ACE2 receptors located on the surface of the vascular endothelial cells (cells lung the inside of blood vessels) One theory is that this stimulates an inflammatory response (involving T cells, immunoglobulins, cytokines, etc) affecting the endothelium and causing it to be damaged thus triggering the bloods clotting mechanisms. This is discussed here:

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30937-5/fulltext

    Another theory is that the body initiates an inflammatory overreaction to the infection releasing massive amounts of chemicals called cytokines. This is called a “cytokine storm” and is basically inflammatory agents running wild in the blood stream. This directly affects the clotting mechanism to cause DIC, Diffuse Intravascular Coagulation, creating a multitude of tiny clots. This is discussed somewhat here:

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200424/blood-clots-are-another-dangerous-covid-19-mystery

    The two might be related. Widespread endothelial damage might lead to the cytokine storm, for example.

    It might be something else altogether. It’s just too early to know for sure

    • Thanks: FB, Parfois1
  918. @Jiminy

    Re Iraq; still de minimis. And unless one likes throwing insults around loosely no one who knows John Howard or has studied him and his career closely would dream of ascribing to him
    “A mental health disorder characterised by disregard for other people”.

    As for Scott Morrison’s unfortunate holiday that and his public appearances on return turned out to be political gaffes remarkably like Whitlam’s when a cyclone hit Darwin. In each case a very hardworking PM went on a well earned holiday out of the country and failed to pick up the vibes correctly. Moreover you need repeated patterns of anti social behaviour or expressed attitudes before you can build on a single changer like the tone of Morrison’s initial response let alone his taking a family holiday.

  919. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @utu

    That theory would mesh with the finding of endothelial damage causing inflammation of the pulmonary capillary endothelial cells, and is likely true to an extent. To what extent is unknown, but certainly deserves, and I’m sure will get, more investigation

  920. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    Thanks Doc…

    Very helpful to all here that you stopped by to share your valuable expertise…

    There is a lot of rampaging nonsense circulating on this website from lay people who simply don’t know anything and have no interest in learning…

    Even Ron, who seems like a man with a lot of patience, has reached his limit with the wild hogs running around here and screaming about flu hoaxes…I would also include here contributors like Mike Whitney and Israel Shamir…

    They are entitled to their opinions, but they also are now proved medically wrong by calling this just a bad flu…

    Of course shutting down economic activity is going to have real costs…but what would be the cost of a health care system that completely collapses…?

    This is a difficult choice, but life often presents difficult choices, where a happy option simply doesn’t exist…

    I think the important thing now is to learn from the obvious problems in our system that this virus has exposed…many obvious problems there…in the health system…the economy…etc…

    I would think now would be a good time to look at how other countries, especially China, have performed…

    Instead we are presented with a circus of finger pointing and belligerence…I don’t see how this is helpful, and it’s not…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @The Scalpel
  921. denk says:
    @barr

    Since Nicaragua filed the suit in April 1984, the Administration has said that the World Court, as it is commonly called, has no jurisdiction to decide the case or others involving ongoing armed conflicts.

    Yet private citizens can now sue China in a US court….cuz Washington has stripped China off its sovereign immunity. !

    What’d that troll beentheredonethat
    call this lawless regime in Washington, how about a gangster state. ?

    hehheheheh

  922. @JDTrader

    I like this logic. As Chinese government demonstrated competency and aptitude, whereas the governments of the Empire and most of its sidekicks showed pathetic incompetence, Chinese are guilty. By this logic South Korea, Singapore, and Vietnam are also guilty – they all reacted properly and suppressed the epidemic early.

  923. @AnonFromTN

    You have to keep the #1 rule in mind at all times.

    China bad.

    That is it. No reason or logic, that is all you need to know. Otherwise you are a CCP loving traitor.

    Bunch or brain washed retards are better off dead. They are no different from the brain dead anyway judging by their brain activity.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  924. @FB

    “what would be the cost of a health care system that completely collapses…?”

    Whatever you mean by “completely collapses” the cost would vary enormously in different countries according, particularly to their demographics and stage of economic development. A country whose population has an average age of 19 is clearly goung to be very differently affected compared with one where the average age is 40+. But that is just the boring obvious. It may be that a “collapse” which simply means there is 7 months or a year of people dying because there are not enough properly staffed and equipped ICU beds and many operations are postponed wouldn’t be economically very costly. Why would it be compared with extreme lockdown?
    No one will really find out in developed countries because it is politics which won’t allow people to die in large numbers for lack of a fubctioning health system – if the politicians can prevent that.

    • Replies: @FB
  925. @Sean

    Does that horror story you quote smell right to you? It sounds a bit like the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador who tearfully told of Iraqi soldiers throwing babies on to the floor.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Sean
  926. denk says:

    I heard USN would be authored to seize Chinese cargo ships on high sea, if China ignore the jurisdiction of a US district court.
    Well Im not surprised, the USN descended from high sea pirates themselves, innit ?

    USN waylaid a Chinese cargo ship, forced it to dock at Saudi port , to be inspected for contraband cargoes.

    China denounced “self-styled world cop” behavior by the United States and demanded compensation for what it said was the disruption by United States warships and aircraft of its ocean commerce.

    American officials here and in Washington said there would be “no apology” because the United States had acted in good faith on intelligence from a number of sources, all of which proved to be wrong

    What’d the troll beentheredonethat call the regime in Wasington, how about the world’s no 1 rogue state ??

    https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/06/world/no-chemical-arms-aboard-china-ship.html

  927. @Godfree Roberts

    Aha! Thanks for something new, interesting, and, as you say plausible on this thread. I refer to the theory propounded by the Belgian microbiologist.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  928. Kapyong says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “Indigenous deaths in custody worsen in year of tracking by …www.theguardian.com › australia-news › aug › indigen… Aug 22, 2019 – Deaths inside: Indigenous Australian deaths in custody … Guardian Australia’s new analysis, which includes deaths reported via coronial …”

    Yes, there are issues with indigenous Australians, but –

    Their population is INCREASING – that does not deserve your ridiculous exaggeration of ‘genocide’. There are many programs and allowances which help them out, not kill them.

    Furthermore – there is a little sea-change of attitude here – aborigines and their cultures are increasingly respected and discussed. We have TV shows like Bush Tucker Man and Bush Mechanics and Clever Man which explore them. Even DC comics has one now.

    Godfree’s anti-Australian bias is as well-balanced as his pro-China propaganda.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  929. denk says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I’ve a feeling they usually concocted such stories out of their own experience in gitmo or from their contra buddies.

    Damn it,
    YOu’r right, Oz, it does reeks of B.S.

    Sean is a typical murikkan,
    Kept in the dark and fed B.S. all day long, like mushroom !

    P.S.
    authorised.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  930. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Gegula

    That’s why I find it so amazing that the people of Serbia elect pro-EU and pro-NATO governments. No matter what one thinks of the US empire. that’s quite a coup (pun intended)

  931. @denk

    Sean is a typical murikkan,

    Based on 30 years experience, I don’t think that “typical murikkan” is quite as dumb. Methinks “Sean” is gainfully employed here, spewing the imperial BS and being paid by the tax dollars of unsuspecting “typical murikkans” who’d be mad if they knew.

    • Replies: @Sean
  932. denk says:

    beentheredonethat troll

    fascist China

    You can call whatever you want with China, fact is, they’d never do shit like this…
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1052756.To_Kill_a_Nation

    USA oweS the Serbs a huge compensation , D.U. babies and all, but uncle sham being the biggest and meanest mofo in town, good luck with that.

    paid disinformation agent

    Isnt that your day job ?
    its so gawd damn transparent.

  933. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Are you even aware of what you write…?

    Seven months to a year of people dying might not be ‘economically costly’…?

    That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve seen on this website…

    As for a collapsed health system…what that would look like and what it would mean to one’s life, I don’t even want to contemplate…

    Nor does anyone have some kind of crystal ball that can seriously depict what that would look like…or what ‘degrees’ of collapse might look like…

    People are used to going to the doctor or a hospital if they are sick or injured…if that basic necessity of life disappears then that would be simply hellish…

    That’s like turning back the clock by 100 or even five hundred years…

    Really your commentary is quite unhinged…the reason humanity has developed our economy is so we can have a better life…and that means even having a life to begin with…

    Health is paramount…without it, you can’t even think about the next step…

    People need to think about basic priorities…no sane person can possibly contemplate as acceptable a situation where the health system has collapsed…even now the system is far from ideal, especially in the US…

  934. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    but what would be the cost of a health care system that completely collapses…?

    For one, we saw the big spike in death rates in northern Italy when this happened somewhat. I would relate a little medical joke to the Wiz here

    Question: What is the definition of a little pain?
    Answer: Someone else’s pain

    Boris Johnson is probably not such a big believer in herd immunity anymore.

    The USA is not nearly so cohesive a culture as northern Italy

    Did we really want to see people’s mom and dad and brothers and sisters dying in hallways all over the country with no access to care, and nowhere to be buried, just hauled off like medical waste? Did we want to experiment with how that goes down with a fractured, selfish populace that is already hoarding toilet paper from their friends and neighbors?

    Of course, under those conditions, a politician or two might not be elected so the politicians try to avoid it. All the better if they don’t get re-elected, though, you might say. But the politician that took his/her place is much more authoritarian because the people want someone who DOES something.

    Then of course there are the purely economic costs of allowing the pandemic to run wild. I’m no economist, but one must consider the long-term costs, not only short-term costs. What might one guess is the long-term cost of NYC being known as the COVID capitol of the world? A potential pit of pandemic pestilence (tm TheScalpel) ? Should my business locate in NYC? How about North Carolina instead? Why renew the lease on Manhattan office space when it could be shut down again and again with every next flu season?

    These are just some of the costs I think of off the top of my head.

    (Note to Wiz: I have recently made a boneheaded post due to a misinterpretation. I’d like to say here that I enjoy your contributions to the site and believe you are sincere. Like most, I agree with some, disagree with some. nothing personal, just good debate here.)

  935. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ‘Covid-19 has been not in humans very long and is probably changing fairly rapidly’.

    The most knowledgeable people are aghast at the lack of hygienic and overcrowded conditions in the camps because it makes the natural selection occurring there favourable to increased virulence, and an amped up second wave out of the camps quite a bit more probable.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2020/04/23/we-shouldnt-worry-when-a-virus-mutates-during-disease-outbreaks/

    Maybe the Chinese deep down think that too, but they just don’t care because they think that they can cope better with a second wave of greater virulence. If relative power is their measure then they probably will benefit from another wave. It will likely be in October, but be no surprise.

  936. @Astuteobservor II

    You have to keep the #1 rule in mind at all times.
    China bad.

    I’d modify that.
    Rule #1 – Empire good.
    Rule #2 – everyone else bad.
    Rule #3 – China, Russia, Iran, … – particularly bad.

    • Replies: @Sean
  937. The Scalpel says: • Website

    I think #2 bears repeating. It seems apparent to me, but I don’t see it discussed much, that through official US eyes, even the EU is defective. ( Calling them bad would be uncouth). It seems to me the US is a sneaky sort of parasite on the EU, like a tick, or a tapeworm. When the host finally dies, the US will avert its gaze and shake its head woefully and say,” tsk, tsk, They had it coming. They were defective. “ A short time later, the vultures will swoop in to grab any easily available carrion.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  938. Coronavirus is one of the biggest scams in the history of America, and is pushed by UN Agenda 2030 to bring in a zionist controlled NWO.

    • Agree: Tsar Nicholas
    • LOL: L.K
  939. FB says: • Website
    @Parfois1

    Parf, the curse of the UNZ ‘gold star’…😅

    I recall that Erebus immediately rejected this acclamation…much to his credit…

    Those who continue to bear the imprimatur do so at their own peril…

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  940. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Scalpel

    Taking a break, doc?

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  941. @FB

    You can just ignore this. In science you get training in ignoring things. E.g., while you call yourself “Dr.”, Europeans call you “Prof. Dr.”, so you just ignore that “Prof.” part, as their meaningless cultural code.

  942. Sean says:
    @AnonFromTN

    China is not a Han empire.
    Enemies are always domestic.
    The USA is the force of evil.

    On March 2019 Italy had become the first G-7 country in Europe to become a member in the Chinese Belt and Road project.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3051241/i-love-china-boris-johnson-tells-xi-jinping-phone-call
    Stuart Lau
    Published: 2:22am, 19 Feb, 2020

    ‘I love China,’ Boris Johnson tells Xi Jinping in phone call covering belt and road projects and coronavirus, among other issues. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has told President Xi Jinping that Britain welcomed Chinese investment under Beijing’s Belt and Road Initiative, a geopolitical move that will probably further upset the Trump administration.
    Proclaiming “I love China” in their phone conversation – a phrase mentioned by Chinese state media but not the official account released by the prime minister’s office – Johnson displayed a cosiness with Beijing that contrasts with his hardline approach to the European Union amid Brexit trade talks.

    That a licker of yellow ass caught a nasty Chinese disease must have been a great shock to him.

  943. @The Scalpel

    Then of course there are the purely economic costs of allowing the pandemic to run wild. I’m no economist, but one must consider the long-term costs, not only short-term costs. What might one guess is the long-term cost of NYC being known as the COVID capitol of the world? A potential pit of pandemic pestilence (tm TheScalpel) ? Should my business locate in NYC? How about North Carolina instead? Why renew the lease on Manhattan office space when it could be shut down again and again with every next flu season?

    All that is being aimed at is to ‘flatten the curve’. Otherwise they wouldn’t call it ‘flatten the curve’, but instead ‘crush the curve’ or something like that, and the measures required would be far stricter. And of course flattening the curve delays the end of the pandemic. The long-term future of New York City is either not affected by mitigating efforts or is worsened by it. It would take suppression measures to really make the pandemic end in a shorter time.

    This is not my theory. It’s the mainstream discourse.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @The Scalpel
  944. Gee says:

    Check this;
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/scientists-find-more-evidence-novel-coronavirus-can-travel-air-pollution-particles

    Who would have thunk, corona sprayed by those $10,000/hr planes hired to make weather with chem-trails, no wonder ships on the ocean picked it up and its all over the planet.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  945. Sean says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Like many other people in the Western world right now I am wondering if I will be able to earn a living when the lockdown comes off, living in increasingly straitened and indebted circumstances, and worried about my parents’ health. I am sure right minded folk even in China will be aghast at the misanthropy on show in your comments defending China’s recalcitrance over measures for preventing another bout of all this.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @FB
  946. anastasia says:

    There is too much cooperation shown between China and the US before the pandemic, funding their virology lab and writing papers together about viruses they were both making….together… There was too much cooperation at the time of the pandemic, with our government admiringly looking on at how the Chinese handled the matter, and emulating them in every way with the exception of barring every American door and window. Never did we look askance at their figures. Never did we question their scientific findings with regard to finding a new strain of virus. Never did we question the new test they developed three days after they filed their new strain with WHO. This make-believe fight about who did is a mere distraction, and reinforces the idea that the measures taken have NOTHING TO DO with any virus.

    As far as the figures are concerned. I live in New York. The governor is obviously lying about the numbers. The hospitals are empty; the Javits Center never had one patient in it. The warship sits out on the East River like a ghost ship, the Central Park Hospital has virtually no one in it. NYC EMT workers have been replaced by “out of state” people, and who the hell knows where they came from. Nurses and doctors are being brought in from out of state. Despite all these empty hospitals, ships, tents, the governor has refused to allow NY nursing home residents who are sick to use them (and they have every reason to be sick during a time like this). Please, spare me this silly talk about blow back with one of our viruses. It was a joint endeavor between China and the US>

    They are in this thing together, as is every other globalist in the world.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  947. @Sean

    FYI, Chinese government did its population long-term service by suppressing the epidemics the first time, so there is every reason to believe they will do the right thing the second time to minimize long-term impact. Their industry is back in operation, in case you didn’t know. People got back to their jobs and are getting paid. In sharp contrast, our moron-in-chief and a bunch of lesser state-level poseurs, like NY Cuomo, screwed up big time, damaging the economy and undermining the livelihood of normal people many times more than was unavoidable. Many of the businesses that went under because of prolonged lockdown, which was too late to make big difference in epidemics, won’t come back. Because of their idiotic policies and sheer ineptitude, there are 26 million unemployed in the US already, and many of the lost jobs won’t come back. This is the difference between governments capable of governing and those who only talk the talk, spread lies, and criticize others. As Russian joke puts it, if you can’t swim, teach others.

  948. FB says: • Website
    @Brás Cubas

    You talk about how flattening the curve only ‘delays’ the ‘end’ of the pandemic…

    How do you, a non doctor and non scientist, know this cause and effect relationship…

    If you had been paying attention to what has been said here you would at least know some basic facts…for instance that you can get reinfected repeatedly…

    So there can by definition be no such thing as ‘herd immunity’…

    How then does your flat curve ‘end’ the outbreak..?

    No one can foresee right now how and when this is brought under control…the doctors and the scientists are learning as they go…

    As for the economic effects that you seem keen to argue about with a doctor…obviously that’s not his area of responsibility…

    But it should be obvious that the effects on the economy will be far worse if we allow the health system to be destroyed…

    Try to ask a relevant question instead of jumping on a guy with irrelevant nonsense…

  949. anastasia says:

    and I told you that they were going to have parades, just like the Chinese. They are already planning a ticker tape parade after this thing is over. I can’t wait to see them pinning medals on each other. I hope I don’t vomit

  950. @Wizard of Oz

    Even in Belgium, he’s known as a loose canon and he knows nothing about China or Wuhan.

    • Replies: @Sean
  951. @FB

    You seem to have piled all those words on to a false premise. After all flattening the curve prolongs the pandemic *by definition* does it not?

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  952. @FB

    So there can by definition be no such thing as ‘herd immunity’…

    How then does your flat curve ‘end’ the outbreak..?

    I completely agree. I would say that, *in the best scenario*, it will delay the end by a certain amount of time. In the worst, forever. I completely agree with that assessment. But I am not the one who is defending those mitigation measures. ‘The Scalpel’ is (on comment #937).

    As for the economic effects that you seem keen to argue about with a doctor…obviously that’s not his area of responsibility…

    ‘The Scalpel’ was giving an opinion on economics. So, he is responsible for that opinion.

  953. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @anastasia

    Thank you, glad there’s still a few rational voices getting through here. It takes a truly special kind stupid to swallow up Chinese government propaganda, which at any rate these morons are only getting through the American media.

  954. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    As opposed to the Chinese expert who in December identified the Wuhan pathogen as a coronavirus, wrongly asserted that it had a death rate of around 10%, yet announced it hardly spread between people, which incorrect information the WHO parotted, and was being given to US senators in a briefing by Dr Fauci well into January.

    While the Wuhan disease isn’t that bad, in the former way, it is much, much worse in the latter aspect of transmissibility between humans. And the aforementioned Chinese incompetence (to put it charitably) led to Western lack of timely action. However, and as AnonfromTN proudly points out, China did its own population proud.

  955. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Kapyong

    As for your ridiculous assertion:

    Godfree’s anti-Australian bias is as well-balanced as his pro-China propaganda.

    You seem to be of the opinion that just because it isn’t referred to historically as “genocide” that that wasn’t the intention of the British colonial governments of the day.

    [MORE]

    Read for yourself ‘The Vandemonian War: The Secret History of Britain’s Tasmanian Invasion‘ which sets out the operation was a highly orchestrated, yet deliberately downplayed, series of campaigns to efface Tasmanian (formerly Van Diemen’s Land) Aboriginals from their country.

    https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-evidence-for-the-tasmanian-genocide-86828

    After ~230 years of white colonial settlement – Australia is only now mapping the massacres of the world’s oldest, living continuous culture, (of some 60,000 years) of the aboriginal people along the Australian East Coast.

    In addition to the Tasmanian genocide of Aboriginals, the massacres continued in the state of Western Australia up to 1934.

    It was even actively promoted by one of Australia’s richest men, Western Australian mining magnate, Lang Hancock to poison Aborigines’ drinking wells with a chemical to sterilize them, so they couldn’t reproduce and would eventually die out.

    Indeed it was only in 1967 that Australia’s Indigenous people were even counted as people in that country’s Population Census. Before that, they were legally considered as flora and fauna (i.e. plants and animals).

    Yes it is true, that in more recent times the Australian government had attempted to make up for its previous atrocities, apartheid and genocidal policies, however the Indigenous people still suffer from, what is called, Intergenerational Trauma and score the lowest on all Quality of Life indices, e.g.:
    – life expectancy,
    – incarceration (as a proportion of the population)
    – alcoholism,
    – mental health issues,
    – youth suicide,
    – dual diagnoses (aka co-morbidity)
    – educational standards, and hence
    – life opportunities.

    • Thanks: Iris, FB
    • Replies: @Kapyong
    , @FB
  956. FB says: • Website
    @Sean

    Interesting…thanks for that update…

    I must admit I never really considered the impact of corona on the troll farm industry…

    I would think that there might still be good opportunities for China ‘specialists’ at this time…although it seems that the Russia work might be contracting a bit…

    How’s the outlook for ‘general practitioners’ like yourself..?

    I do hope, certainly, that you don’t find yourself without work…

    But if worse comes to worst, and we stop seeing your work here, please do remember not to let the door hit you where the good lord split you…😷

    • LOL: The Scalpel
  957. @Sean

    Can you provide a link to “the Chinese expert who in December identified the Wuhan pathogen as a coronavirus, wrongly asserted that it had a death rate of around 10%, yet announced it hardly spread between people”?

    Or is he just a figment of your–or our media’s–imagination?

    • Replies: @Sean
  958. @Gee

    You read zero hedge.

    So, how you doing right now? You seem to have no brain activity? Should I call an ambulance for you?

  959. @Sean

    And the aforementioned Chinese incompetence (to put it charitably) led to Western lack of timely action

    Lame excuse. How come then that South Korea, Singapore, and Vietnam managed to curb their secondary (to Chinese) epidemic so successfully? How come the whole of Russia (population ~140 million) has more than 10 times fewer cases and more than 25 times fewer deaths than NYC? This shows that Chinese released enough useful info for capable governments to act, whereas pathetic morons now blame their ineptitude on China.

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Thanks: Sean
  960. @FB

    Addendum. “If we allow the health system to be destroyed” is another stupid introduction of an effectively false, because uselessly meaningless, premise. I would say “think about it” if I thought you were capable of doing so without producing another flow of cognitively impaired junk.

  961. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Jiminy

    Wizard of Oz says:

    “no one who knows John Howard or has studied him and his career closely would dream of ascribing to him “a mental health disorder characterised by disregard for other people”

    Btw, that mental health disorder is commonly referred to as psychopathy.

    Jiminy, your characterization of self-confessed “Friend of Israel”, former Australian Liberal Party Prime Minister John Howard is correct as he is in fact a War Criminal. He aggressively prosecuted the case for the invasion and occupation of the free and independent, sovereign nation of Iraq which was:

    [MORE]

    (i) illegal under international law – i.e. started without UN Resolutions, and
    (ii) immoral – as Iraq possessed no Weapons of Mass Destruction & the US-led Coalition only had to wait another 2 – 3 months before UN Weapons Inspectors had reported back their findings.

    In life, before we believe anything we need to ask ourselves the question is the person making the claim in a position to know? Check out these contemporaries of the war criminal, Howard.

    Former Federal Liberal Party (Howard’s own party) President John Valder​ stated Howard should be tried and punished for War Crimes over the Iraq invasion and occupation, calling it:

    “one of the great military atrocities of our time.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/18/1090089035899.html

    An independent Member of Parliament (MP) and former intelligence officer of Office of National Assessments which within the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet who resigned, Andrew Wilkie stated there’s:

    “a pretty compelling case”

    John Howard and [Australia’s Foreign Minister] Alexander Downer had committed War Crimes and should face an international court.
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/chilcot-report-andrew-wilkie-blames-iraq-invasion-for-lindt-cafe-siege-as-inquiry-sets-off-aftershocks-in-australia-20160707-gq0e7j

    Former Australian Labor Party Prime Minister Paul Keating stated:

    “Howard has visited on Australia the whole specter of terrorism, through his craven and ill-judged support of the US and its invasion.”

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/paul-keating-says-john-howard-should-hang-his-head-in-shame-over-iraq-war-20160707-gq12fq.html

    … and if anyone was still in any doubt that the US invasion and occupation of Iraq was fraudulent, here’s Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice putting the lie to their own propaganda Iraq Has No WMD’s (0:56)

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  962. @Ozymandias

    Anybody can dream up shit.

    By the way the two block distance was debunked a long time ago. I don’t remember how far since it was debunked months ago, but it was several miles from the lab to the wet market.

  963. anon[361] • Disclaimer says:

    Ron Unz wrote:

    “Nearly 30,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus during the last two weeks, and by some estimates this is a substantial under-count”

    How do you really know, Ron?
    The whole lot of ’em are playing fast and loose with numbers.
    Why would they do that?

    [MORE]

    Pennsylvania Takes Hundreds of ‘Probable’ COVID Deaths Off Books After Coroners Come Forward
    https://www.westernjournal.com/pennsylvania-takes-hundreds-probable-covid-deaths-off-books-coroners-come-forward/

    Pennsylvania has removed hundreds of COVID-19 deaths from the official death count after coroners pointed out the state’s health department numbers did not match their own.

    Pennsylvania Health Department officials had included in their count “probable” coronavirus deaths in cases where they believed the virus was the cause of death but did not have confirmation from a positive test result, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported. . . .

    The department also claimed that the surge was caused by a computer glitch.

    [Health Secretary Rachel] Levine [who several weeks ago advised Gov. Tom Wolfe to order all Pennsylvanians wear masks when out of their homes] announced Tuesday that the department would be reporting “probable deaths related to COVID-19 in addition to confirmed deaths,” but department spokesman Nate Wardle told The Inquirer probable deaths had been included for at least a week prior.

    Read the rest of the article: it relates two or three occasions when Levine’s explanations for surges in death counts or other anomalies were contradicted by subordinates or had to be retracted.

  964. @Patagonia Man

    I have looked at the Comment record of this newly arrived commenter (at least by the curious moniker adopted now). I don’t propose to waste my time on another obsessive’s rants and am fortified in that decision by detecting the most absurd nonsense in this most recent comment. He/she asserts that there are Israeli dual citizens [a dozen! There aren’t even that many Jewish MPs and Senators] in the Australian Parliament “in contravention to [sic] Sec 44 of the country’s Constitution”. Just have a look at
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_Australian_politicians [57 of them]

    which even lists dead Jewish state politicians and point out the Israeli citizens. Josh Frydenberg? – No; Mark Dreyfus?- no.

    Why does he pollute UR with such crap?

    Aha!? Is he/she a spoiler? Where’s he/she coming from? Maybe it’s a bot.

  965. @Patagonia Man

    And that is relevant to what? Evidence of what? Last time I break my resolve to avoid suspect bots and obsessives.

    BTW for convenience I picked up the
    “a mental health disorder characterised by disregard for other people” as the first definition I got for sociopathy from Googling. I’ve never been satisfied that there are clear distinctions between psychopathy and the more recently coined sociopathy. In either case they are descriptive of a person who is clearly not John Howard. Actually, instead of pouring bile on Australia’s second longest serving PM (whom I criticised in the past and from whom, nonetheless, I received an apology of a kind that no one with a narcissistic/sociopathic/psychopathic personality would have managed) you might more sensibly Google for some variations of “John Howard sociopath” . I found absolutely nothing against Howard but a near top link to Kevin Rudd’s “grandiose narcissism” 🙂

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  966. FB says: • Website
    @Patagonia Man

    Just came back to read this quite excellent and articulate comment after the Blizzard of Shnozz replied to it [in what appears to be a drunken stupor…’fortified’ indeed 😁]…

    You have described exactly the nature of the antihuman neoliberal and neocon agenda that is the gravest threat to humanity…and I am saddened to hear how these criminals have managed to so thoroughly capture Australia, and run roughshod over her people…

    You subsequently posted another highly informative comment, filled with facts and citations…

    Just want to let you know I greatly appreciate your fine work…this forum needs more honest and articulate voices like yours…👍

    • Thanks: Patagonia Man
  967. @Patagonia Man

    It is suffering from the same problem as USA and EU.

    The microphones has all been captured. And used against the population of all the countries.

  968. Denis says:
    @The Real and Original David

    “Little Recent Commenting History”

  969. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The first thing the Chinese said was the Wuhan disease had a fatality rate of 5-15 per cent , this was just a lazy assuption that it was like SARS. In a article which anyone can find in the time it takes to ask me NYC Biodefense Centre chief Professor Ian Lipkin, who has a friendly relationship with China and went on working visits every year was quoted as saying . “On December 31st, researchers there [Wuhan] identified it as a coronavirus but said, ‘It’s not highly transmissible’”. Neither is SARS, by the way. On the 24th of January the WHO–clearly relying on the Chinese– announced “it is very clear right now that we have no sustained human-to-human transmission”.

    Well before the end of December that there were too many patients for the Wuhan disease being what they said on 31 Dec. If you believe them about what they knew and when, the Chinese authorities were more than a month away from realising the truth themselves. I suspect China knew the truth about the Wuhan disease for a few weeks before they told anyone because they needed time to prevent the outside world deciding on things affecting China before it was ready. Like North Korea when a leader is dying.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  970. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Since you asked, I just got done with a 3-11 shift, but perhaps TMI. Were you going to ask me on a date?

  971. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    It never ceases to amaze how a person can delude themselves into thinking that their personal bias can pass for an informed opinion.

    And w.r.t Google it no longer is a reliable search engine – a far cry from their motto “Don’t be evil”. Google (and its subsidiary Youtube even more so) has been largely censored since the NZ Christchurch Massacre, 2019 and lists as “top” searches the corporations &/or individuals who pay it the most money. It’s called Search Engine Optimization (SEO).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  972. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @FB

    Thanks for your kind words FB.

    Being relatively new to this site (DEC 2019) I’ve often wondered whether people here are interested in the work that I do – which has taken years to build up, incidentally.

    Good wishes to you.

    • Replies: @Paul C.
    , @anonymous
  973. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Brás Cubas

    The term “flattening the curve” is misleading. The intent of social distancing is to preserve the efficiencies of the health care system. As hospitals become overburdened, there are longer delays in care, more medical errors, rationing of resources all of which leads to poorer outcomes which no one wants except perhaps the malpractice lawyers. “Flattening” is ineffective if the hospitals are still overburdened and unnecessary if they are not.

    The problem is that US hospitals were frequently overburdened for short intervals even prior to COVID-19. This is because they operate in a capitalist system and through the use of “float pools” hospitals try to maximize cost efficiency and treat their employees like “just in time” cogs in a personnel supply chain – calling 1 to work in a particular department only when the next 3 patients are admitted (or some other ratio). The float pools themselves are just big enough to handle the system’s average demand. The same goes for supplies, so the system, as it is, has a very limited capacity to handle any surge in patients. This means that “a little flattening” will probably be ineffective because hospitals will still be overburdened.

    The long-term future of New York City is either not affected by mitigating efforts or is worsened by it…
    This is not my theory. It’s the mainstream discourse.

    What evidence do you have to back up this assertion? I disagree. If NYC becomes associated with pestilence and poor public health practice in the minds of potential tourists and businesses, it follows that, that will negatively impact tourism and business seeking to locate or relocate there. The worse that NYC performs on this scale, the greater the negative impact until at the extreme, NYC could be thought of as a biological Chernobyl. If things proceed beyond a certain point, the people will demand public health care from the top down and the bottom up through public health clinics. That would certainly have an impact on the economy.

    As for your post #976, yes I will take credit for my opinion. I am not an economist (the miserable science or something like that) but I have a brain and can form opinions based on my understanding of the facts. Perhaps you can convince me of your point of view, but it will take more than bald assertions unsupported by any evidence.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @FB
  974. Gee says:

    @Astuter
    How do you figure it got on navy ships and infected >20% of the crew if it wasn’t airborne?

  975. denk says:

    The latest fear porn outta Oz, aka uncle sham’s deputy in Asia, says that ANZUK ,that peacekeeper in Asia, should keep an eye on China, which might take the opportunity to ‘create troubles’ in Asia , while Washington is preoccupied with the CV. [sic]

    Apparently the deputy has never heard of the boss’s legendary ability in multi-tasking, at least when it comes
    to shit stirring.

    Wow, Uncle sham is so preoccupied , it still find time to do humanitraian relief work in Venezuela,
    https://newint.org/features/2019/02/12/beware-americans-bearing-gifts
    pick fights with Iran and sail its gunboats up the Yangtze,

    hehhehehhe

  976. JDTrader says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You are just making my point – do you really think that the Chinese government would care so much if 17 of its citizens died that they would take the actions that they did. Do you also think the numbers coming out of China are real? If you do then you are incredibly naive.

    As for the other countries, South Korea learned from what they did during the MERS outbreak, not from what China did. South Korea used widespread testing. Singapore has had a surge in cases just recently so they will come off your list and Vietnam used their playbook from SARS which involves testing, contact tracing and immediate quarantine. The rest of the world, including the US, has been too arrogant to plan for something like this.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  977. denk says:
    @Johnny Rico

    When uncle sham finds itself ‘on the sideline‘, lots of things would go kabooom

    Witness the eight nations alliance‘s gang bang on HUawei and…….CV19.

    Fret not.
    China is in the cross hair.

    The chicoms just lost two satellites in quick succession, unprecedented in their track record, netizens are scratching their heads.

    Leave it to Caesar.
    Now back to your Harry Potter.

  978. Nuncle says:

    Correction: Nearly 30,000 American are said to have died. Real number would be far lower.

  979. @Wizard of Oz

    …flattening the curve prolongs the pandemic *by definition* does it not?

    It does not. You are confusing it with a Gaussian distribution curve, where the total area must remain the same, at 1, regardless how the curve is shaped.

    However, in this case, flattening the curve means keeping the maximum (number of hospitalized patients) below a critical threshold level, above which the health care system becomes overloaded and “triage” needs to be conducted at the emergency rooms due to limited resource availability (equipment, personnel, space, medical supplies).

    This essentially would entail physicians getting to decide who will be allowed to die immediately and who instead will be given a chance to live. It means that the ugliest, oldest, and fattest will almost immediately get transferred to the morgue.

    Since the total number of infected individual is also supposed to go down through these curve flattening measures, it could be possible that the pandemic would not be prolonged thereby.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @The Scalpel
  980. @Been_there_done_that

    You are confusing it with a Gaussian distribution curve, where the total area must remain the same, at 1, regardless how the curve is shaped.

    The total area may arguably change after the flattening, but please show us *one* published simulation, or calculation, result where the flattened curve goes to zero earlier than the non-flattened one. I don’t think it would make any sense for it to happen, but I have an open mind.

    Since the total number of infected individual is also supposed to go down through these curve flattening measures, it could be possible that the pandemic would not be prolonged thereby.

    Lowering the total number of infected individuals does not per se shorten the duration of a pandemic, unless, as I said, they are lowered consistently and irreversibly through extremely draconian suppression measures. Otherwise, you have those individuals which were not infected earlier getting infected later. If reinfections are possible, then with a great probability *only* suppression measures would end the pandemic. In that case, all this mitigation effort means only delaying the solution, and we will have destroyed a great deal of the economy only to have to destroy it some more later.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  981. @Sean

    The first thing the Chinese said was the Wuhan disease had a fatality rate of 5-15 per cent , this was just a lazy assuption that it was like SARS.

    This is just a lazy allegation. IF the Chinese said this, show us where and provide a link, don’t just make stuff up.

    Ditto

    NYC Biodefense Centre chief Professor Ian Lipkin, who ..went on working visits every year was quoted as saying . “On December 31st, researchers there [Wuhan] identified it as a coronavirus but said, ‘It’s not highly transmissible’”.

    So the Biodefense Chief Professor Lipkin, whose failure to biodefend NYC left it defenseless, has a story about ‘what the Chinese said.’ If the Chinese said something, quote it and provide the link. Don’t quote a proven lamebrain with a desperate need to pass the buck.

    Well before the end of December that there were too many patients for the Wuhan disease being what they said on 31 Dec.

    Oh, really? How many patients were there in hospital in that city of 11,000,000 people, pray tell?

    • Replies: @Sean
  982. @The Scalpel

    As I pointed out in a recent comment on this thread, I haven’t seen one published paper, or even an unpublished one, where the flattened curve goes to zero earlier that the unflattened one. That’s all the evidence I have. I am not trying to convince anyone of that. I have an open mind and wouldn’t mind being presented with a different result.

    As for the medical angle of overwhelmed ICUs, I wasn’t debating that. Everyone with a modicum of information knows about that problem. But your claim that this is about the *long-term* aspects of this crisis, rather than the *short-term* ones is really something that does not make any sense, and is completely unheard of.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  983. FB says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    That ‘float pool’ lunacy sounds like just the kind of retardation one would expect from the biz ‘school’ products… [aka special ed for university level]…

    In the broader economy we see now that the entire system of ‘just in time’ and ‘global supply chains’ that these wingnuts have cobbled up is inherently fragile with infinite points of failure…

    I’m just waiting to see how food availability is going to shake out if the shit hits the fan…

    Right now 80 percent of all that we eat comes from a handful of giant ‘agribusiness’ concerns…and these are consolidating internationally like a giant octopus bestriding the globe…

    This agribusiness industry is also intertwined and dependant on the so called finance industry…what happens when the Ponzi house of cards collapses, as it did in the 1930s…?

    At that time half the population was rural and could live off the land…plus provide for relatives in the cities if need be…

    Even with the banks tits up, industry teetering and no jobs, people could still survive…hand to mouth…

    That doesn’t exist in today’s world…there is no hand to mouth option, nor grandma’s farm…

    What do you eat when the genius food industry collapses…?

    Is Trump going to press the National Guard into service…digging little truck gardens in empty parking lots..?

    We’ve had swine flu, avian flu…mad cow disease and all kinds of huge problems with this frankenfood industry already…

    From the front row information you have presented here, I would say we came dangerously close to the health system being overwhelmed…

    Nobody can predict what chaos would ensue in hospitals and on the streets if things really got out of hand…

    It seems to me our entire system is extremely fragile and we are skating very near the edge…

    Maybe it’s time to rethink the wisdom of letting so called MBAs rearrange the world to suit ‘investors’ that are only concerned with profit and nothing else…

    We saw already what these wingnuts did to Boeing…when are we going to say this approach just doesn’t work..?

    And the brainless masses continue to berate the Chinese system, where at least you have an authority at the top that can and does put a limit on capitalist greed and stupidity…

    We have no such limits…

    When are ordinary folks going to realize that big business is not our friend..?

    • Agree: The Scalpel
  984. @FB

    One more chance for you to make sense. You saw that I called out “PTG Mann” for his totally unfactual nonsense about Jewish dual citizens being Australian MPs. What do you say to that? Does it qualify him for anything but classification as so unreliable that you shouldn’t waste time on him?

    • Replies: @FB
  985. @Patagonia Man

    Do you suffer a neurological defect? ADHD for example? Your response to my telling you that I got the definition of sociopathy that you seemed to disagree with from Googling – as if it was a substantial point and the only one you attended to – is bizarre.

  986. The first Holocaust Remembrance Day and the WHO’s Declaration of the Coronavirus Global Health Emergency

    [MORE]

    Haaretz : The first Holocaust Remembrance Day
    https://www.haaretz.com/the-history-of-holocaust-remembrance-day-1.5246317

    The first Holocaust Remembrance Day took place on December 28th, 1949, a year-and-a-half after Israel’s independence.

    *

    Guardian : WHO declares coronavirus a global health emergency
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/30/who-declares-coronavirus-a-global-health-emergency

    Wikipedia : On 30 January, the WHO declared the outbreak to be a Public Health Emergency of International Concern.[258]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic

    *

    From The first Holocaust Remembrance Day on December 28, 1949

    to the WHO Declaration of the coronavirus global health emergency on January 30, 2020

    = 666 months, 666 weeks, 666 days

    https://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?d1=28&m1=12&y1=1949&type=add&ay=&am=666&aw=666&ad=666&rec=

    MG

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @annamaria
  987. annamaria says:
    @Sean

    “… a briefing by Dr Fauci…”
    — He has been the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases for 32 years. Look at the level of preparedness for any kind of epidemic in the US. Appalling.
    In the old times, an engineer would stand underneath a newly-built bridge during the first run, to risk his own life in case something goes wrong.
    Today, the government and corporations are staffed with unaccountable incompetent trash.
    Dr. Fauci should be tarred and feathered for his gross dereliction of duty.

  988. @Brás Cubas

    …show us *one* published simulation, or calculation, result where the flattened curve goes to zero earlier than the non-flattened one.

    You must have missed my point, which was that the pandemic need not necessarily be prolonged by definition. As we learned, simulations have been based on unrealistic and unknowable factors and thus have been flawed. Since it is impossible to experience two different situations simultaneously, it would all be conjectural anyway.

    Otherwise, you have those individuals which were not infected earlier getting infected later.

    Or not at all, which is a secondary effect of the curve flattening measure.

    The fact is that the commenter in #975 didn’t know what he was writing about and needed to be corrected for his misunderstanding.

    • Disagree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  989. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Easy does it there Blizz Shnozz…

    Have you been ‘fortifying’ yourself with your cheap sherry again…?

    As for PTG Mann’s info about dual Israeli citizens infesting the Aus govt, you certainly haven’t ‘debunked’ that by any stretch…

    Considering also that these dual citizens are a bane to honest governance everywhere…and universally of the neocon stripe, I would be more interested in why YOU are trying to whitewash this crowd…?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  990. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @SomeoneInAsia

    Or did I miss something? Does anyone know?

    If you turn the heat up too much and too soon, the food’s not gonna turn out perfectly.

    Why would China, officially, need to make more accusations against the U.S., when scientists from Japan, Taiwan, Russia, Italy and many other places are already blowing the lid off the American bio-warfare offensive for them?

    “You can’t make the tides come in any faster, or cause the Sun or Moon to rise any sooner”.

    By holding back, and letting things fall into place, China manages to conserve its reputation and power. Pretty well played, really.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  991. @Mark Gobell

    Is that your entry in the comp to won a Ron Unz Gold Medal for the year’s outstanding coincidence discovery?

    • Replies: @Mark Gobell
  992. @JDTrader

    Vietnam used their playbook from SARS which involves testing, contact tracing and immediate quarantine

    This was a no-brainer requiring no previous experience, just elementary competency. Any half-qualified epidemiologist would tell you that testing, contact tracing and immediate quarantine is the only sensible way to go.

    The rest of the world, including the US, has been too arrogant to plan for something like this.

    The countries hit badly (Italy, Spain, the US) showed incompetence, rather than arrogance. Thing is, some countries have healthcare system, whereas others, like the US, have extortion racket instead of healthcare system. I keep a collection of hospital bills that prove this beyond reasonable doubt. One of these claims that the original charges were >>$30,000, and “insurance discount” was >$30,000. As it is clear that the hospital does not treat insured patients at a loss, these numbers tell you that the real costs are much smaller than what the hospital charges, and that those >$30,000 listed as “insurance discount” were fraudulent extortion charges, pure and simple. Another vulnerability of some countries, including the US, is self-proclaimed “market economy”. It fails at any challenge. It failed to produce sufficient number of tests, as well as much simpler things, like face masks. Golly, it failed to produce even something as trivial as bathroom tissue: that aisle in my supermarket was empty for more than six weeks already. Anyone who believes in market efficiency after this experimental test is a propaganda-blinded moron.

    All this adds up to the difference we observe. The US now is “leading” the world in the number of cases and deaths, NYC is the world capital of coronavirus. Sad thing is, this experience will be wasted, nothing will change. American political system is corrupt beyond salvage.

    • Agree: annamaria, Biff, Adûnâi
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Biff
    , @JDTrader
  993. Boldizar says:

    It is unfortunate to admit that not only does this article not meet the standard of quality established by Ron’s American Pravda series, but it is such shallow, accusatory trash that it shouldn’t have even been published.

    American Pravda articles typically have years of substantial research and context behind them with which the articles examine the cultural and factual understandings of past events. This pandemic does not have that benefit and as a result this article is simply dismissing conspiratorial claims with other claims that are equally likely to be true. Therefore, there is absolutely no value in any of this.

    Did Ron even both to read the Zerohedge article mentioned? It was actually relevant and dealt with information straight from on of the bio-research lab’s website. How can Ron know that is anonymous message board sources cited are any better than the basically anonymous postings at Zerohedge? The premise of this article is that nothing is true and everything is suspect, well with that alone how can anything be asserted? Maybe the mentioned forum posts are the real Intelligence Agency subterfuge? One cannot know either way, so why pretend?

    There are numerous other issues with this article, such as the bordering fealty to China and assumption that the United States is the only uniquely flawed country. I actually thought for awhile that my understanding of China might be framed incorrectly after reading the Tienanmen article linked here when Ron linked it previously in another article. Then I watched for two months as the Chinese government welded people shut into their homes, threatened doctors who had tried to warn the country of this virus last year, disappeared citizen journalists, threw people from their homes into unmarked vans and storage cubes in one case leaving disabled family members in the home to starve, etc… etc… The Chinese government is horribly inhumane and corrupt. This article’s biased weighting only on the incompetent US is gravely misguided.

    If the U.S is so stupid as to not account for the virus getting back to its own land after releasing it intentionally, how were they smart enough create and plan to release the weapon (in the supply chain hub of the world that has people traveling in and out constantly to the rest of the world) in the first place? There are just so many problems with this article and it is an unfortunate blemish on this series, website, and Ron Unz’s credibility.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  994. @Been_there_done_that

    The fact is that the commenter in #975 didn’t know what he was writing about and needed to be corrected for his misunderstanding.

    You seem to be dwelling on a semantical issue. If so, I think Wizard was correct. They wouldn’t use the word ‘flatten’ if the expected result was to deform the curve in more complicated ways than the one widely shown in the media, which characterizes itself by an elongation of its overall horizontal shape and a lowering of its peak. That is the shape alteration it is believed to undergo after the mitigation measures and corresponds to the mechanical action of manually flattening a peaked-shaped moldable mass; thus it qualifies practically as the definition of ‘flattening the curve’.

    As for the possibility that the pandemic will not be prolonged by it or that the mitigation measures will produce better results *for society as a whole* in the long term, there is really no evidence for that, and no serious claim has been made so far to that effect. Their selling point is strictly the short term relief of the health system.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  995. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/03/09/a-local-guide-to-the-coronavirus

    Lipkin is a world authority on epidemics especially the 2003 SARS one, who the Chinese have long been picking the brains of and collaborating with on his annual trips over there for a decade or more. He went to China to help with the Wuhan disease thinking it would not be too risky because the Chinese had assured him and everyone else that the Wuhan disease was not infectious between people. When he got over there, lo and behold, he caught the Wuhan disease because it was person to person infectious. Instructive, eh?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  996. Anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Are you really stupid on top of your other problems? You don’t have to be Australian to know that there has; over the last four years or so been an all party assault in court on any MP or Senator who can be tagged with dual citizenship and thereby deprived of his or her seat. It has most famously been aimed, unsuccessfully, after the 2019 election at the Treaurer Josh Frydenberg on the ground that his mother must have had Hungarian citizenship which she couldn’t help passing on to her Australian born son. It allegedly applied to about a dozen members – but in no case an Israeli.
    When I did a quick search “how many Jews are there in the Australian Parliament” and the like I found a Jerusalem Post article saying that more Jews were elected to the Australian Parliament in 2016 than ever before. The number was 6 of whom two were Senators for a fly by night short-lived independent personality based group and one retired at the 2019 election. The article said BTW that only two were kippah wearers. You could easily have found information like that if you were interested in the truth rather than applauding a lot of demented BS.*There are no Israelis in the Australian Parliament*. Prove that wrong you can. It is the only thing that can make your blathering justifiable.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @annamaria
  997. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Been_there_done_that

    Agree. (Except for the “ugliest” comment.) Thanks!

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  998. Boldizar says:
    @Gaius Gracchus

    Thank you for laying out these factual statements that the article conveniently ignored.

  999. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Boldizar

    Nailed it. Surprised this got through. Re. your speculation on it discrediting the website: yes, that’s exactly the purpose.

  1000. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Brás Cubas

    As I said previously, I am not a fan of “flattening the curve”. It seems to me to be a propagandistic expression like “loose lips sink ships”. The important thing, I think we both agree, is to not overwhelm the medical care system. The thing I tried to emphasize is that in the US, the healthcare system is designed to operate near the point of being overwhelmed under normal circumstances because under normal circumstances that is the most profitable approach. Thus, the system has very limited capacity to handle unexpected surges in numbers of patients nationwide.

    Regarding you comment on long term making sense, it might not to you, but it does to me. But let’s just agree to disagree on that. I don’t think either of us is up for the Nobel prize in economics

    • Agree: Adûnâi
    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  1001. @AnonFromTN

    I don’t seek to dispute any of that but even your expertise seems to glide over a gap.

    “testing, contact tracing [add more testing] and immediate quarantine is the only sensible way to go”. Sure, but we know that ramping up the number of tests has been a major problem for many countries. Maybe the use of temperature checks in some countries has made a crucial difference. Could that be so? And is there not an unpluggable gap where there needs to be tests for antibodies?

    However the key problem would have to be that it is a new virus for which none of Vietnam’s [e.g.] competence or experience of SARS would help. Clearly no one was or could be prepared with a test for Covid 19 when the first puzzling infections struck. CDC incompetence merely made that a greater problem.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1002. Mark Gobell says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard of Oz says:
    April 27, 2020 at 1:57 pm GMT
    @Mark Gobell

    Is that your entry in the comp to won a Ron Unz Gold Medal for the year’s outstanding coincidence discovery?

    ***

    When I know nothing about a subject Wizard of Oz, life has taught me to keep my big mouth shut.

    You might like to consider that as advice, it might serve you well in the future.

    That’s my response in the comp to win a Ron Unz Gold Medal for this year’s outstanding response to an ignorant, knee jerky loud mouth.

    https://www.whataboutthewhen.com/

    MG

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1003. @The Scalpel

    (Except for the “ugliest” comment.)

    No problem; I’ll substitute “ugliest” for “smelliest”, as in those that reek like a full ash tray.

  1004. Kapyong says:
    @Patagonia Man

    “You seem to be of the opinion that just because it isn’t referred to historically as “genocide” that that wasn’t the intention of the British colonial governments of the day.”

    Wrong.

    [MORE]

    I am of the opinion that Godfree’s ridiculous claim of an ‘ongoing genocide‘ is clearly and obviously disproved by the facts :

    * the population of Australian aborigines is INCREASING – that obviously cannot be an ongoing genocide.

    * govt policies support and fund aborigine communities – the opposite of an ongoing genocide.

    * popular opinion here is swinging towards the indigenous, not to kill them all off.

    Ongoing genocide is a ridiculous, emotive, false claim that flies in the face of the facts. Frankly I cannot understand why this author has ANY credibility here at all.

    Furthermore – it is not clear that the British govt formally intended to kill the entire Australian (Terra Nullius) native population as you assert without evidence. Indeed, I conclude the reason you could not provide any evidence of such an evil murderous intent by the British govt is because there is NO SUCH evidence.

    Kapyong

    • Replies: @Jiminy
    , @Patagonia Man
  1005. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Donald Quixote

    There are just 30 edits in the last 4 months to the Wikipedia entry on Bubonic plague, most of them minor, and no addition of anything referring to China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bubonic_plague&offset=&limit=250&action=history

  1006. annamaria says:
    @Mark Gobell

    Thank you. It is never t0o often to remind about the inherent hypocrisy of the Jewish State of the “most victimized,” whether it is the Jewish State’s weaponization of Banderites in Ukraine or the institutionalized racism against non-Jews and even non-white Jews: https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/22/mccarthyite-anti-semitism-smears-and-racism-at-the-guardianobserver/

    Racism in Israel also opens the door for repellent forms of gender violence. In 2014, Bar-Ilan University lecturer Mordechai Kedar publicly discussed the idea that the mothers and sisters of Palestinians who take up arms against Israel ‘could’ be raped. “The only thing that could deter a suicide bomber is knowing that if caught, his sister or his mother would be raped… the knowledge that if he pulls the trigger or blows himself up, his sister will be raped. That’s all. That’s the only thing that will bring him back home, in order to preserve his sister’s honor.” Kedar is not some peripheral figure to governmental authority but served for twenty-five years in IDF Military Intelligence.

    And this beauty: “Non-Jews should be forbidden from living in Israel, says Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef:” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/non-jews-should-be-forbidden-from-living-in-israel-says-chief-rabbi-yitzhak-yosef-a6957806.html

  1007. FB says: • Website

    A bit of good news…

    Hong Kong police rounded up at least 15 veterans and supporters of the opposition camp in a swoop on Saturday that netted, among others, media tycoon Jimmy Lai Chee-ying and prominent barrister Martin Lee Chu-ming for their roles in unlawful protests late last year.

    From South China Morning Post

    Hopefully more cleanup operations to come…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1008. @Wizard of Oz

    As could be predicted considering that this virus belongs to the same family as SARS, MERS, and numerous other coronaviruses, and as now confirmed by the experience of many countries, antibody test is unreliable: at least several percent of the population has antibodies recognizing this virus because they were previously infected with its relatives. Besides, it takes many days for a person to generate sufficiently high titer of antibodies to be detected, and during this time this person would test negative, but can infect many others. Fever also develops late, plus a large fraction of infected people do not have fever and other symptoms.

    The test that detects this virus early is based on reverse transcription (RT; necessary as it’s an RNA virus) and PCR. The full sequence of this virus (necessary to design PCR primers that would not falsely fit its relatives) was published by Chinese in February 2020. Samples (e.g., saliva) can be collected from millions of people by barely trained personnel. All you need is equip them with masks and gloves, do that they don’t get infected. RNA extraction buffers (that preserve RNA) are sold by many companies, which could have increased production within days, as these buffers do not contain any exotic components. Cheap PCR enzymes (such as Taq DNA polymerase) are widely available, and as they are all recombinant (e.g., produced in overexpressing E. coli), their production also could have been ramped up within days. Oligonucleotides of desired sequence are commercially made by dozens of companies with turn-around time of a day or two. If I were organizing this, I’d make sure that tests include 3-4 pairs of oligonucleotides matching sequences unique for this virus, to increase reliability. RT-PCR is no rocket science, it is routinely done in hundreds of labs by even law-grade techs. In my lab untrained undergrads learn to do PCR successfully within a few days. Reverse transcriptase is also recombinant, it is available commercially, and it would have taken NIH maybe 1% of its resources to produce sufficient amounts of reverse transcriptase for tens of millions of tests. Thus, within a week of publication of the genome, the US and any other even semi-developed country could have had tens of millions of tests ready, and could have tasked hundreds of labs with doing this testing.

    But that would have been possible if we (and other “democratic” countries) had governments worth the name, rather than pathetic corrupt poseurs and demagogues only good for mouthing BS and helping MIC steal billions of public funds.

    The countries that have functional governments accomplished all of this quickly enough to make a difference. The countries that have inept and corrupt MIC puppets instead of governments did not.

    That’s all there is to it.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  1009. glib says:

    Since vitamin D has been mentioned numerous times in these threads, here is a good compendium of vit. D vs infection, with a couple associational studies specific to covid which nevertheless have very clear signals. The video gives a simple explanation for extra mortality in blacks.

  1010. @Alfred

    Did any one refute what I posted about what he said on this particular matter? No. It is possible to be right about one thing and wrong about others.

  1011. @Tsar Nicholas

    I am not vouching for what Martensen said on other videos of his which I have not seen. I have only seen a few. And this was an excellent criticism of the topic he covered and your criticism of him was a dodge and off point. I pretty much ignore his economic advice as I would likely do for anyone whose field of expertise is medicine. What he says or does not say about economics has no bearing on his medical expertise. Same would go for his religious beliefs.

  1012. @The Scalpel

    Boris Johnson is probably not such a big believer in herd immunity anymore.

    It doesn’t matter what he believes. Herd immunity will happen anyway. It’s just that Boris will have wrecked the British economy in foolishly trying to avoid it.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @The Scalpel
  1013. @Commentator Mike

    So far as the UK is concerned, even the msm is reporting that a large protion of the excess mortality is down to people not receiving routine medical treatment.

    Cardiology consultations down 70% at Papworth Hospital. Cancer referrals by GPs down by 75%.

    And I think attention neds to be focused on the treatment given to virus patients. It still seems that most are being routinely intubated as a first resort and yet this is a dangerous procedure. Doctors are following the protocols and patients are dying.

    Boris Johnson was, thankfully, not put on a ventilator and this is likely why he survived.

  1014. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    …sufficiently high titer of antibodies to be detected…

    I think I know that girl…😉

    But seriously man…WOW

    That’s stunning info…almost unbelievable…

    Let me just see if I understood correctly…

    You’re saying that testing could have been ramped up much more quickly…if only someone had taken charge…?

    What about Fauci…isn’t he supposed to do that..?

    Also, are they doing this RT and PCR testing now…if not, then what are they using…?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1015. fnn says:
    @Biff

    Because people would starve?

    They have to eat bats and pangolins?

  1016. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    But that would have been possible if we (and other “democratic” countries) had governments worth the name, rather than pathetic corrupt poseurs and demagogues only good for mouthing BS and helping MIC steal billions of public funds.

    The countries that have functional governments accomplished all of this quickly enough to make a difference. The countries that have inept and corrupt MIC puppets instead of governments did not.

    Thanks. That has been exactly my own view, but you possess the professional expertise to provide the exact technical details, whereas with me it was just my impression based on reading a few articles here and there.

    I’d add one thing to further magnify your argument. From everything I’ve read, the Chinese worked out and internationally published the complete genome of the virus on Jan 12th rather than in February, so diagnostic tests could have been produced starting on that date.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @utu
  1017. FB says: • Website
    @Tsar Nicholas

    From what I understand of Doc’s comments, herd immunity may not even be possible…

    Hopefully he can elaborate, if he gets a chance…

    Would also like to hear what AnonfromTN has on this…

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  1018. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    But that would have been possible if we (and other “democratic” countries) had governments worth the name, rather than pathetic corrupt poseurs and demagogues only good for mouthing BS and helping MIC steal billions of public funds.

    In a more fundamental sense, I think this reveals a serious shortcoming of democratic and capitalist systems. It is almost impossible for private enterprise, given that the profit motive is the main driver, to respond with the same focus, speed, and magnitude that governments and government enterprises can respond.

    Politicians in democratic societies, as we all know, are mainly motivated to do whatever would improve their chances of being re-elected. They feel they cannot promote overt government competition with private enterprises who fund their re-election, so they stall and equivocate not wanting to butt heads with private enterprise.

    Additionally, they ARE corrupt which makes matters worse. But even if they were not overtly corrupt, the incentives in the democratic, capitalistic system would prevent it from responding to pandemics as efficiently as more authoritarian, more (dare I say) communal systems.

    Democratic, capitalistic systems do have their own unique advantages, but responding to pandemics is not one of them.

  1019. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @FB

    Partial herd immunity IS possible but will never be a panacea for this one. Once exposed, survivors will have good immunity at first that diminishes over time. Partial immunity, though possibly not enough to prevent re-infection, will probably persist to some degree indefinitely.

    So in the months following the peak of the pandemic herd immunity will be pretty good, but less so over time. Even so, reinfections are likely to be less severe (unless the virus itself becomes more pathological through mutation) and those infected are likely to be less contagious. It is also possible that with each re-infection, the permanence of the immunity that results is improved.

    In the future one might expect to see a steady number of new cases consisting of those never exposed and those reinfected due to falling immunity. If a vaccine is developed (even one that needs to be “boosted” over time) one would see the same picture but with the steady state number being lower until hopefully it approaches zero.

    • Thanks: FB
  1020. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Tsar Nicholas

    That’s twisting my logic. I’m sure you realize that I was implying that Boris Johnson is no longer flippantly suggesting that everyone should just go ahead and get the virus as soon as possible with minimal efforts to moderate the intensity of the epidemic. That was Boris Johnson’s idea of “herd immunity.”

    I was not suggesting that herd immunity as a concept does not exist.

  1021. @FB

    Even under the best circumstances (say, vaccine) our immune system takes days or weeks to produce a lot of antibodies. Low levels would not be detected, so infected people with low immune response would be missed. Russian physicians say that only 20% of those who recovered have high enough antibody levels for their plasma to be of use for treating patients. This is a common thing with coronaviruses: those bastards somehow suppress immune response. That’s why we have recurring flu and common cold.

    I don’t know what is the ratio of antibody tests to RT-PCR based. I’d trust the latter rather than the former. Besides, the latter can be easily made very reliable, would detect the virus early, before immunity or symptoms develop.

    Yes, RT-PCT based testing could have been done on mass scale fairly early, which would have allowed the epidemics to be minimized from the get-go. Ron Unz (#1041) tells me that covid sequence was available even earlier than I thought, in January. So, even more precious time was wasted.

    I don’t know about Fauci, but general rule is that if a person holds high administrative post, this tells you that: 1) the person is likely no longer professionally sound; 2) the person has a personality suitable for politics, not science. Disqualification is inevitable: there is only 24 h in a day, and every hour you devote to administration is not devoted to science.

    Research is like sports: if you lose shape, this is forever. That’s why I try to do something real at the bench, even for a day or two per week, just to keep in shape. Besides, with experience your success rate goes up to 70-75% (anyone who says that his/her success rate is higher than that is lying), whereas the success rate of your post-docs and grad students is much lower. Just when your skills are at their highest, there emerge a lot of thing that force you away from the bench, such as grant/paper writing/reviewing, teaching, various committees, getting funding (if you don’t, you fail not just yourself, but everyone in your lab), etc. This is hard to resist, but I do my best.

    • Thanks: FB
  1022. @Ron Unz

    Your impression is correct. Some countries dealt with the situation much better than others, and that’s experimental fact. It reflects the capability and robustness of the governments, and nothing else. Politicians in countries that failed miserably will do their best to drown this in words and silly claims, trying to shift the blame to WHO, China, whoever. But the fact remains, clear to everyone capable of reasoning.

  1023. @The Scalpel

    If not overwhelming the healthcare system was so unanimously seen as important, they should have thought of that in advance.

    Given that they haven’t, they should have implemented a total lockdown, which would mean a sure way to end the pandemic in the shortest period possible.

  1024. @The Scalpel

    I’d say that “representative democracy” is democracy in name only. Politicians have their own interests and do not share the interests of the people who elected them. Corruption is inevitable in the system like that: to get reelected, politicians need money for their campaigns, so they serve the donors, not the electorate. The only cure is totally dissociating money from politics, which was partially achieved in some smaller European countries.

    • Agree: The Scalpel
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Jazman
    , @Anon
  1025. Ron runs a great website – bloggers like Audacious Epigone, Steve Sailer, and Anatoly Karlin are worth their weight in gold.

    Now that the ass-kissing is out of the way: this article is garbage. Beijing claims, even today, that it has 8 TOTAL deaths from COVID-19. Shanghai claims 7 deaths. The lies coming out of China are so laughably bad that they defy all sense of credulity. Wuhan’s death statistics were adjusted upward by a not-at-all suspicious exact 50.0% after international pressure about China’s lies forced them to try and save face.

    Why would you believe anything coming out of this regime? And why paint Trump’s assassination of Suleimani irrational, given Suleimani’s continued successes in the region? Murdering potentially millions of Chinese with a bioweapon that’s highly likely to blowback is entirely different from the targeted assassination of a decades-detested terrorist (an assassination that the US quickly took credit for before it even knew what the consequences would be).

    I’m perfectly willing to believe, given its track record, that Uncle Sam can be a very bad boy at times. But instituting mass genocide that would invite a WMD retaliation? Nah.

  1026. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Taiwan and South Korea had the best response to the epidemic. Partly because they had good intelligence of what was really happening in China. Probably they were acting on the rumors of the virus being a bioweapon to which East Asians were particularly susceptible like to SARS. They went by the book: testing, contact tracing, quarantine for the unidentified contacts, strict verification and enforcement. You can read a letter from Taiwan in the latest Linh Dinh article about the quarantine enforcement. Plus they were able to mobilize their industry to produce masks for everybody. Taiwan produces over 10 million masks a day.

    • Replies: @TT
  1027. RT says:
    @The Scalpel

    On vaccines:
    “Receiving influenza vaccination may increase the risk of the other respiratory viruses, a phenomenon known as virus interference”
    “Vaccine (i.e. influenza vaccine) derived virus interference was significantly associated with corona virus and human metapneumovirus …”
    These are quotes from a recently published study done on influenza vaccinaton and virus interference among US Department of Defense personnel.
    G. Wolff, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2019.10.005
    Stay safe

    • Thanks: The Scalpel
    • Replies: @anon
  1028. Paul C. says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Some of us are very interested. The challenge is getting others to open their eyes. Breaking through a lifetime of propaganda is not easy. Sharing the truth is our calling at this point.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1029. @Mark Gobell

    Thanks for the link. I see you are attempting something systematic but I still think your latest noting of a coincidence is farfetched.

  1030. annamaria says:
    @Johnny Pranke

    “Why would you believe anything coming out of this regime?”

    — Who needs bad China when there a good UK regime to lie: “Secret US Chemical Warfare Contracts at the UK Porton Down Lab – Dead Monkeys Tell Their Tales, But Live Skripals Can’t” https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/02/secret-us-chemical-warfare-contracts-at-the-uk-porton-down-lab-dead-monkeys-tell-their-tales-but-live-skripals-cant.html

    That was a special kind of deceit. May’s phrase “only Russia” was false, because the rest of the truth was that the UK and US also had the technical means, operational experience and motive to manufacture and test organophosphate weapons like Novichok. This truth May intended to dissemble.

    The top-secret nerve agent programme at DSTL, or Porton Down at it is also known for short, has not been fully disclosed to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW); it violates Article II of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC); concealment from other, non-allied states, is a violation of Article IX of the Convention. …

    The falsehoods of the story of the Skripal case, as told by the British Government, MI6, the Metropolitan Police, the Wiltshire Coroner, and the BBC can be followed in the new book just published. The book reports the refusal of Porton Down to substantiate the blood samples, reportedly taken from Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury District Hospital after the March 4 incidents, and also after a London High Court ruling authorized the OPCW to take additional blood samples for testing and matching.

    If the Skripals’ blood was in fact tested by Porton Down, there is no chain of custody for the blood test evidence to be admissible in an English court. The allegation that the Skripal blood revealed at Porton Down a Russian-made Novichok is a political charge, not a legal one. It was made in parliament; it has not been made in a court of law.

    The zionized UK looks absolutely miserable. Ghislaine Maxwell, a British subject and known criminal, was never apprehended by the UK’s law enforcement clowns. At the same time, journalist Assange is in a high-security prison for exposing the crimes of H. Clinton & Obama. Take note that Mr. Clinton, a frequent visitor to Epstein’s Rape Island, was not interrogated by ‘prudish’ Americans. https://www.mintpressnews.com/tag/ghislaine-maxwell/

  1031. @AnonFromTN

    In 2000 I coined the opening line for a speech in Boston “I thank God for the United States saving the world from democracy” and formulated my description “a plutocracy, tempered by meritocracy, within a framework of law and flavoured by the rhetoric of democracy”. All true and that was before I learned in detail how all but a tiny handful of Senators and maybe the odd outlier Congressman are owned by about six lobbies (plus a few local specials – but still bought). I see no hope for the US to improve much though there could be amazing things happen if Israel was to disappear and all the imagination and creative energy of American Jews were refocused [OK disregard distracting fantasies].

    Since Australia is not afflicted to nearly the same degree by money politics** for various reasons my explanation for any delay in Australia’s ramping up testing as fast as one would like is that the current Chief Medical Officer and his Deputy (medical Profs as usual) simply didn’t know enough about or attend enough to pandemic threats for them to give the advice which would have had Australia two or three weeks ahead of where it has been. Indeed my federal representative, herself a former professor of medicine, told me early on that she was working closely with our intelligent minister of Health and understood very well the importance of testing and tracing. (I think they may have been putting a bit more emphasis on increasing the supply of ventilators and ICU beds at that stage for what, to me, are obvious non-corrupt political reasons).
    Australia, despite its huge numbers of Chinese students and tourists, and despite the odd cruise ship mishap, seems to have flattened the curve so as to be able to begin unwinding lockdown. So, unless our winter undoes us, we can claim our version of “democracy” has been able to cope in a way that the US can’t and cannot sensibly be expected to.
    **in case anyone were to bring up the egregious case of Clive Palmer I do admit that his personal spending for the May 2019 election of several times the combined spending of the major parties probably tipped the balance in what might otherwise have been Labor seats in Queensland where mine workers and their families tend to be quite keen on the coal which is so offensive to the inner city publicly employed Greens who live near me.

  1032. Anonymous[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    You are being sarcastic?? But why on this thread?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  1033. anonymous[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patagonia Man

    “Interested in the work that I do” is very intriguing. Would you please elaborate.

    Is there anywhere other than on UR threads where we can find the corpus you have built up?

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1034. @Sean

    “the Chinese had assured him and everyone else that the Wuhan disease was not infectious between people.”

    No, the Chinese did not assure him or anyone else that the Wuhan disease was not infectious between people. Quite the contrary. Lipkin did not even leave for China until AFTER Chinese authorities had announced that human-to-human transmission was occurring AND shut down Wuhan. Here’s what happened:

    A virus provokes alarm if it can be proved that it moves from an infected human to another human beings and this was not clear to either Chinese authorities or to the WHO until January 20.

    On December 31, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declared that there was no evidence to show human-to-human transmission at this point (for instance, no medical worker had been infected).

    That conclusion was verified on January 4 by the first expert team of China’s National Health Commission.

    At regular intervals, both the National Health Commission and the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission reported that there was simply no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission.

    On January 15, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission reiterated this, but then said that the possibility of limited human-to-human transmission could not be ruled out; however, the commission noted that the possibility of sustained human-to-human transmission remained low.

    The first official statement that verified human-to-human transmission was made on January 20 by China’s leading respiratory disease expert, Zhong Nanshan.

    The next day, the National Health Commission reportedthat the novel coronavirus was a Class B infectious disease and that Class A methods of prevention had to be adopted.

    With this notification, everything changed.

    On January 23, Wuhan was shut down, and the Chinese government operated on an emergency basis.

    On January 29, internationally acclaimed epidemiologist Walter Ian Lipkin of Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health flew to China amid the coronavirus break. https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1178317.shtml

    • Replies: @Sean
  1035. Art says:
    @Anonymous

    The major institutions of the West have become non-functional and unable to reform themselves. Islands of competence remain, but are islands with eroding shorelines and some threat of flooding.

    Hear hear — when it came to testing the CDC was a major f-up.

    Once again, the Permanent State failed the people. It is a given – it happens wherever there is government – it is the curse of mankind.

    All the different parts of the Permanent State have an all-consuming goal – that is spend more money and exert more power – without exemption!

  1036. Biff says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Nice tally against a corrupted system that poses as “free market”. Another one that hit the papers today is the fact that ONE corporate entity can disrupt the entire food supply for everyone in the world’s third most populous country.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/04/27/tyson-meat-shortages-coronavirus-covid-19/3034748001/

    I not sure what you would call this kind of market system but “free” has nothing to do with it.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1037. @AnonFromTN

    Surely you are exaggerating! Oh, wait…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @JackOH
  1038. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Anonymous

    The larger point of my post is the State capture of Australia which was hitherto a functioning liberal-democracy and has now become a zionist occupied government (ZOG) holus-bolus along the lines of both the UK & US.

    I have outlined elsewhere why State Capture is pernicious for the public good and national interest of any liberal-democracy as it is more effective than good ol’ fashioned corruption as it actually guarantees wanted outcomes for vested interests.

    Elsewhere, I have also listed the requirements for State Capture to succeed:
    1. huge wealth;
    2. influence
    3. parliamentary representation

    You can read for yourself, what International Monetary Fund has to say about state capture:

    “State capture is a type of systemic political corruption in which private interests significantly influence a state’s decision-making processes to their own advantage through unobvious channels, that may not be illegal.”

    http://www.imf.org/exte…/pubs/ft/fandd/2001/09/hellman.htm

    Your zeal in defending Israeli dual-citizens in the Australian Parliament is truly astonishing. But you are correct – there’s not at least a dozen, I should have stated approximately a dozen – and I can name if you wish.

    Even the country’s recently deposed PM was Jewish (note the source) https://www.timesofisrael.com/australias-new-pm-may-be-jewish-but-hasnt-given-it-much-thought/

    Your logic for no court cases brought against Israeli dual-citziens is not because there aren’t any. More accurately, its because the predominantly zionist-owned media Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation (with TV, a 70% newspaper coverage and radio stations); CBS’s Network 10 & CVC group’s (a spin-off of Wall Street’s Citibank) NINE-Network will not pursue the upholding of the country’s constitution.

    The other reason is the power of the zionist lobby in Australia, the Israeli dual-citizens went to a zionist legal firm, Leibler & Co. (Mark Leibler, who’s also head of the Zio. Org of Australia, btw) to cover their backsides when registering their foreign affiliations for Parliament. It is on that country’s parliamentary website – if you care to look rather than just doing an unreliable Google search.

    … and w.r.t. your specific allegations re: the dual-citizen, Treasurer Frydenburg, his mother was Hungarian – and not “stateless” as he publicly claimed. So why did he lie about it? His mother’s travel papers are in the public domain. As you may know, ‘Jewishness’ has a maternal lineage, its passes down the mother’s line. As such, he is entitled to Israel’s Right of Return (1950) which he hasn’t renounced as far as I’m aware. That makes him eligible for citizenship of another country, and hence, dual. The keywords of Section 44 of that country’s Constitution are “entitled” and “eligible” – if you were to read it.

    The most astonishing aspect of Australia’s constitutional crisis over their parliamentarians’ dual-citizenship is that Australia’s political class has opted not to honor the nations’ birth certificate, the Constitution, in order to favor a certain ethno-religious group over and above the citizens of the nation. As we’ve witnessed with the control AIPAC has over the US Congress inviting Israeli PM Netanyahu to address Congress without Obama’s invitation and as we’ve witnessed with the UK’s Head Rabbi issuing a ‘fatwa’ against UK Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn in the recent UK General Election – similarly, such is the power of the Israeli lobby in Australia.

    Its important when reading informed contributions to this site that you don’t lose sight of the forest because the leaf that you’re examining is obscuring your view.

    • Thanks: Iris, Rurik
    • Replies: @FB
    , @Anonymous
    , @Seraphim
  1039. @The Scalpel

    I think this reveals a serious shortcoming of democratic and capitalist systems…

    You can have a democratic system or a capitalist system, but not both.

    Within a democratic or socialist system you can have capitalist activity, but capitalist systems are inherently non-democracies.

  1040. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @anonymous

    Thank you for your interest.

    UR threads will be sufficient for your purposes since they are responses to contributions from others and need to be read in context.

    Peace.

  1041. @Biff

    The market is free from the influence of consumers. The politics are free from the influence of electorate. The finance is free from any kind of accountability. It’s a free world, right?

    • LOL: FB, Ron Unz, niceland
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1042. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Paul C.

    Well Paul, that is indeed encouraging, and I heartily thank you for that confirmation.

    Just so you know, I too, used to believe pretty much everything I saw and heard in the mainstream media, so I fully appreciate the effort that’s required in “breaking through a lifetime of propaganda” and developing an ability for critical thinking. It isn’t easy – but its certainly worth the while.

    I suppose I was one of the lucky ones that had to read George Orwell’s 1984 at secondary school – and so since then, have had my antenna raised.

    And you’re quite right about sharing the truth, as Orwell said himself:

    “In a time of universal deceit – telling the truth is the first duty of intelligent men.”

    (or words to that effect),

    but he also cautioned:

    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.”

    Peace.

  1043. Anonymous[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You Mother Russia types who live in America sure are funny!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1044. Jiminy says:
    @Kapyong

    It is hard for people to get past the current level of propaganda and to find true information, as often it is very well hidden. The aboriginal industry is worth $30 billion a year for over 550 000 people. I don’t think that there would ever have been that many aborigines in Australia before the white man arrived.

    [MORE]
    To be honest, I sometimes think that the black man was not made for the white mans world. They appear not to cope with societies norms. It would be great to blame the white man for every ill, but by doing so ,the real reasons are never addressed. There is a place called Groote island, and the small population of aborigines there were millionaires many times over. Every person there could have studied at world renowned universities and brought fame and notoriety to their people. But their elder who was entrusted with their mining rights fund misappropriated $33 million in several years. Buying big boats, 4x4s, and gifts . A big name accounting firm were blamed. There is a government program called Closing the gap. One of the things that is tracked is school attendance. Aboriginal kids are paid to go to school, and quite often fed there as well. Yet still they will not go to school. My own experience of this is that a relation of mine lives with an aboriginal family. While he is at work, their boy stays home from school. When my boys were comparing report cards, he declared that he missed 31 days of the semester. That is over 6 weeks of schooling. It’s criminal to let your kid roam the streets instead of attending school, when education is so important for ones future. To put it into perspective, people have died for their chances of an education- girls in Afghanistan comes to mind.

  1045. FB says: • Website
    @Patagonia Man

    Well played, sir…

    So very nice to see your participation here…you may have noticed that there’s a lot of dead wood around here…so it’s always welcome by the thoughtful participants here to come upon some decent information, especially from someone fighting the good fight…

    I will just remark on the Jeremy Corbyn takedown that stinks to high heaven…and will mention a similar takedown of Bernie Sanders…

    Of course this is the doing of the neocon political machine, which, despite any hopes we may have had, is still firmly in control of the west…

    Whether these individuals are Jewish or not, is not really a concern for me specifically…but any neocon by definition will be working for the Israeli agenda…plenty of gentiles in that category…

    And Jews like Sanders directly opposed…

    But I do enjoy the high quality material you are presenting here…and very politely too…your style reminds me of Godfree’s…👍

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1046. FB says: • Website
    @Patagonia Man

    Thanks for some absolutely heartbreaking reading about the Aboriginal plight in Australia…

    Of course most well informed people are only too aware of how horribly we have treated our native peoples on our respective continents…

    What really burns me up is the hypocrisy…I remember watching the opening ceremony for the Olympics in Australia a few years ago…and they had this incredibly flashy and elaborate native theme, just a massive Hollywood style production…

    Only a universe or two removed from the cruel and sad reality, I thought to myself in total disgust…

    • Thanks: Patagonia Man
  1047. Anonymous[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Hey Rachel, how about telling us about the plight of Siberian natives after the Russians moved in?

  1048. vot tak says:
    @denk

    Denk

    The been there done that troll is a guardianista. These are israelis for all intent and purposes. That is what they are loyal to. Fanactically so, in fact. The colonials in places like the usa are simply sheep, cattle, cannon fodder to these creatures.

    • Replies: @denk
  1049. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @FB

    Thank you kind sir. Its nice to be appreciated.

    Yes, I must say I have been inspired by Godfree’s posts. His logic is clear and the data he employs is impeccable.

    His patience with accurately rebutting his critics is also an inspiration.

    Cheers!

  1050. Jazman says:
    @AnonFromTN

    So much credible info from you Doc FB and couple others
    Enjoy reading your comments

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1051. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @FB

    Yes you’re quite right. That 2000 Summer Olympic Games opening ceremony “honoring” Australia’s indigenous past was designed in such a way to give the rest of the world the impression that ‘White Australia’ was at peace with its aboriginal past – and was incredibly hypocritical.

    The British colonists treated the 250 (or so) Aboriginal nations abysmally – as they did in their other colonial possessions. In Australia’s case, it’s a wonder that the atrocities have continued up to so recently, and that a negotiated settlement has never been made:
    • no sovereignty ever ceded,
    • no treaty signed, and
    • no compensation sought from the UK Government.

    As far as I’m aware, the only negotiated political settlement happened in Aotearoa (New Zealand) where the Maori people fought the colonizers in a guerilla war lasting years and the British finally sued for peace, signing the Treaty of Waitangi. Of course, being the duplicitous double-crossers that they are, the British then went away and interpreted the terms of the treaty to their own advantage.

  1052. JDTrader says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I don’t think Vietnam would have taken the same actions if they had not gone through SARS. Like China, they are a socialist republic that needs to project authority and control and a false mask of care for the people. But I agree with a lot of what you said. I am a veteran of years of battles with insurance companies and healthcare companies.I have had 5 surgeries, including open-heart surgery 11 years ago (which I am still paying for). Have you ever seen a 6-figure hospital bill? Total bills close to $300,000 for that one. I have had $16,000 bills for a 3 hour ER visit for one of my kids after a sports injury that the insurance company negotiated down to the point that I was paying more then the insurance company was paying the hospital. And I have insurance from my company which I contribute to! It’s maddening. Yes our healthcare system is quite broken. But what do you expect when the insurance lobby is writing the laws and politicians are in their pockets.

    But I digress…your comment about toilet paper is off. That was a demand issue, not a supply issue. Too many idiots hording TP. I live outside of NYC and when this first started I spent over 3 hours one day driving from store to store trying to find TP for my 87 year old mother. People would linger in the back of the store waiting for a pallet to come out and when it did, it was like a school of sharks attacking a chum pool. I gave her mine and was lucky enough to find some the next day at a 7-11 of all places. Now I don’t even go to the stores- everything we order is online.

    Yes incompetence has been one reason I now live in coronavirus central and there is no shot I am getting back on the Long Island Railroad or subway until there are minimal cases being reported. I already know too many people who have been sick or died and there are no experts. There is no plan. It’s the most disjointed clusterf**k I have ever witnessed.

    But I think arrogance goes to part of it. No one ever thinks “That can happen here” when they think about these horrible things that happen somewhere else…terrorism, pandemics, food shortages, hyperinflation, riots…At least , not one of our so-called leaders on either side of the aisle. There is never enough planning for the protection of the people (you know-one of those inconvenient roles of government that the Preamble of the Constitution calls for) or a national goal or purpose. Instead we have tribal -politics run by self aggrandized morons whose top priority is to get re-elected. No one thought 9-11 could happen until it did. No one thought a virus could shut down the largest economy on the world…until it did. Things will change in the short term, just as they did here in NY after 9/11….but people have short memories and some things won’t last…until the next disaster that couldn’t happen here. Arrogance on top of incompetence.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1053. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Kapyong

    “the population of Australian aborigines is INCREASING”

    Wrong. The population of mixed blood (aka half-casts) Aboriginals is increasing (as you would expect as the European/white population continues to spike). The population of full bloods is now very, very low – as low as in the tens of thousands(?) but certainly NOT the 2 million (est.) as before white colonial settlement (1788).

    [MORE]

    “govt policies support and fund aborigine communities – the opposite of an ongoing genocide”

    Partially correct. The vast majority of funding for Aboriginal people goes to the church & community organizations tasked with helping them – NOT the Aboriginal people themselves. Also incarceration rates and deaths in custody are much higher than the general populations doesn’t actually support them living according to their customs / traditions. As far as I’m aware, its the alleviation of intergenerational trauma that needs addressing – and nothing, or very little, is done about that. Government policies are all about assimilation – which doesn’t actually help them

    “popular opinion here is swinging towards the indigenous, not to kill them all off.”

    That may be true of government policy , but it depends on what area you’re talking about. The aboriginal people still suffer from disgusting racist slurs from white Australians, especially in the redneck states of Queensland and Western Australia if you’ve been.

    “it is not clear that the British govt formally intended to kill the entire Australian (Terra Nullius) native population as you assert without evidence”

    I provided you a link of the intended and totally successful genocide of Tasmanian Aborigines that you evidently didn’t read. But I am not going to allow you to wallow in your comfortable denial. Here’s orders given to soldiers in 1816 by the former Governor of the colony of New South Wales, Lachlan Macquarie , and I quote:

    “All aborigines from Sydney onwards, are to be made prisoners of war and if they resist they are to be shot and their bodies hung from trees in the most conspicuous places near where they fall so as to strike terror into the hearts of surviving natives.”

    Note the use of the word “all“.

    ““In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners.”” – Albert Camus

  1054. @Johnny Pranke

    Why would you believe anything coming out of this regime?

    Would you believe Australia, S Korea, Taiwan, Japan? They’re telling the same ‘lie.’ See Comment #1062, below.

    In the past 60 years I have not caught the PRC telling a lie or being deliberately misleading. They’re the most trusted government on earth and they’re playing to the world’s toughest audience.

    • Replies: @Johnny Pranke
  1055. denk says:

    murikkan commander to his Aussie sgt

    We really like using you guys,”
    “It’s like this: the British have the Gurkhas; we’ve got the Australians.

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/george-bushs-other-poodle

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  1056. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:

    So far, every government head has handled this crisis like a fumbled football. No, I don’t believe it was a conspiracy. Covid-19 may have been made in a lab, or it may be natural, but no country’s leadership has done anything better except muddle through after Covid-19 hit them.

    Conspiracy theories must be more fun to ponder than the truth. The truth is unromantic, and it’s a hard stone to swallow. Truth hurts one’s pride. This site is getting to the point where it has too many columnists that write about nothing but conspiracy theories.

    Contrarian takes on history are fine. But when all the columnists write, “Okay, this historical event really happened this other way because of a conspiracy,” then that’s where it gets to be silly.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1057. @Godfree Roberts

    I am glad to see that your chart points to the curious fact that the loudest preacher of “democracy” as something to thrust on other nations is so hopelessly corrupted that it is quite confusing to include its characteristic ways in any description of or attempt to define democracy. Because other countries that are not so confusingly called democracies are handling the pandemic much better. It would not be helpful to treat the US as the democratic model to compare with China’s technocratic autocracy.

  1058. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I hope you saw The Scalpel’s apology, at #903.

    Many thanks to you (and Ron, the Scalpel, and a few others here) for persevering in the face of deranged denialism. The early comments were so disappointing that I left for a week. Returning to find some thoughtful discussion was reassuring.

  1059. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @RT

    Holy S**t…..

    Someone should mention this to the ‘medical experts’ who are advocating for flu vaccinations this fall.

  1060. JackOH says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, thanks. Your graph and AnonFromTN’s extraordinary #1033 (among others), that sufficient tests could have been made fairly quickly–but weren’t–well, they’re gnawing at me a bit. I’m just a layman doing my thing with the gloves and mask and all that.

    April 5th my local paper ran my letter suggesting the White House “examine how group health insurance accelerates or retards the transmission of contagious disease.”

    I followed up with a note to the editor:

    “Two persons, one uninsured and one insured, both infected by COVID-19, and both become symptomatic on the same day. The insured person presumably has the ready option of calling a doctor for an examination and diagnosis at relatively little out of pocket cost to himself. The uninsured person, many working in ‘essential’ retail, has exactly what option?”

    “I was also thinking [I wrote the editor] of the millions of onetime insured workers and their contractually qualifying dependents who will face the loss of employer-subsidized group health coverage as a result of COVID-related layoffs. They’ll face the double whammy of both a diminished income (protected somewhat by unemployment comp), and a completely vacated employer subsidy.”

    “Likewise, what kind of ‘compassionate release’ is it for a few Ohio prisoners to be given early release from confinement for COVID-related reasons, only to find themselves like uninsured ‘essential’ retail workers.”

  1061. Anonymous[120] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Although he hasn’t I think completed Volumes 2 and 4 of the series he began with Volume 1 “The Fabrication of Aboriginal History” and may (I speculate) have been discouraged to find more evidence than he expected of seriously bad treatment of Aborigines in the far north of Australia, Keith Windschuttle is the author to read first. He is an ex lefty who wrote “The Killing of History” about 1995 in rejection of the PoMo and “theory” types who cooked up bad history on early Australia as he showed with his David Irving like unearthing of key documents. His Volume 3 exposed the lies about the so-called Stolen Generation. As PTG Mann is so clearly untrustworthy you should at least read Windscuttle before you make a fool of yourself. Start may be with

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Windschuttle?wprov=sfla1

    I think it fairly represents Windschuttle’s work.

  1062. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    What is your opinion of Chinese vs Indians vs Americans vs Eastern Euros?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1063. @Godfree Roberts

    Here is another example of Chinese bullying and arrogance that sits uneasily with the picture you like to paint of a restored but modernised Mandarinate of thousands of 140+ IQ technocrats and urbane sophisticated in such contrast to the US team from whom one can expect uncouth bullying behaviour. Are you not disappointed?

    I presume you don’t subscribe to the AFR.
    **** **** ****

    Payne lashes China’s ‘economic coercion’
    Andrew Tillett, Simon Evans and Robert Bolton
    Apr 28, 2020 – 12.00am

    [MORE]

    Foreign Minister Marise Payne has accused China of “economic coercion” after warnings of a consumer backlash against key Australian goods and services over the Morrison government’s advocacy of an international inquiry into the coronavirus pandemic.

    Relations between Canberra and Beijing have plunged further after the ambassador to Australia, Cheng Jingye, claimed the Chinese public were “dismayed” over the push for an inquiry and could trigger a boycott of Australian universities, tourist operators and exports of beef and wine.

    Foreign Minister Marise Payne has repudiated “economic coercion” after Chinese ambassador Cheng Jongye warned pursuing an inquiry into coronavirus could harm Australia economically. Alex Ellinghausen

    Mr Cheng’s comments, in an exclusive interview with The Australian Financial Review, prompted business to acknowledge the growing “political risk” in trading with China.

    Senator Payne criticised Mr Cheng for linking trade to Australia’s push for an inquiry.

    “Australia has made a principled call for an independent review of the COVID-19 outbreak, an unprecedented global crisis with severe health, economic and social impacts,” she said.

    Updated: Apr 28, 2020 –

    “This would be undertaken at an appropriate time, fully acknowledging that many countries are continuing to deal with the challenges of the virus.

    “A transparent and honest assessment of events will be critical as we emerge from the pandemic and learn important lessons to improve our response in the future.

    “We reject any suggestion that economic coercion is an appropriate response to a call for such an assessment, when what we need is global co-operation.”

    Mr Cheng said Australia’s push for an inquiry was “dangerous”, politically motivated at the behest of the Trump administration and would undermine global efforts against the pandemic.

    Beef and wine exports
    “The Chinese public is frustrated, dismayed and disappointed with what Australia is doing now,” he said.

    “I think in the long term … if the mood is going from bad to worse, people would think ‘Why should we go to such a country that is not so friendly to China?’ The tourists may have second thoughts.

    “The parents of the students would also think whether this place which they found is not so friendly, even hostile, whether this is the best place to send their kids here.”

    Advertisement
    Mr Cheng added Chinese consumers may lose their taste for Australian beef and wine exports.

    Australian wine companies export a combined $1.3 billion to China, making it more than three times as large as exports to each of the United States and the United Kingdom.

    Mitchell Taylor, the managing director of Taylors Wines, one of Australia’s largest privately owned wine groups, said on Monday that his group had already been seeking to diversify to other markets such as Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia, and also put renewed emphasis on exports to the United States.

    Treasury Wines downgraded its full-year profit for the second time in a month – this time because of the coronavirus fallout in its main market of China.
    RELATED
    Treasury Wines trims profit forecast again
    “The political risk is definitely there,” Mr Taylor said.

    Treasury Wine Estates, the owner of the Penfolds and Wolf Blass brands, declined to comment on Monday on the political ructions between China and Australia. It has the most to lose from any long-term fallout, with about 40 per cent of its annual profits coming from sales to China where the Penfolds brand had been booming before the coronavirus pandemic.

    Chinese students were worth just over $12 billion to the economy last year but enrolments have taken a hit in 2020 because of coronavirus travel restrictions, with only 109,523 now in Australia, although 177,442 visas have been issued.

    Need to keep students at home

    Advertisement
    University lobby group the Group of Eight said it did not want to “get caught up in a geopolitical debate” with China.

    But China watcher at the Centre for Independent Studies Salvatore Babones said China had other reasons for wanting to keep its students at home.

    Undergraduate enrolments were falling at its own universities and it needed to keep foreign exchange onshore, not send it back with international students.

    Opposition foreign spokeswoman Penny Wong said the push for an inquiry – which Labor was supporting – was not a matter of geopolitics but so humanity could put in place protections to stop future outbreaks.

    “I’d make the point that the Chinese ambassador spoke about not wanting to resort to recrimination, division and suspicion and what I’d say is that’s precisely why we are supporting a call for an independent inquiry into the origin of the virus,” she said.

    Foreign Minister Marise Payne on Sunday calling for an inquiry into origins of the pandemic.
    RELATED
    Beijing accuses Australia of pandering to US in ‘anti-China crusade’
    Macquarie University Professor of Asia-Pacific Security Studies Bates Gill said Mr Cheng’s comments should be taken seriously and reflected a more “assertive and even combative diplomatic language on China’s part” since the coronavirus crisis began.

    “This would not be the first time either in public or behind closed doors China has levelled such threats to Australia, or others, for that matter,” he said.

    “So far by and large Australia has not ended up on the wrong side of the economic leverage.”

  1064. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Anonymous

    Three points:
    1. an honest person cannot be deceived;
    2. Wikipedia is an unreliable source as it can be edited (and re-edited) by anyone with an ax to grind;
    3. sadly, Keith Windschuttle used to be an academic of some repute but has lost all street cred when he “sold his soul” in Australia’s “culture wars”.

    [MORE]

    Perhaps you’re not aware of the 170+ massacres of Aboriginal people along Australia’s East Coast currently being mapped by historians at Newcastle University, in New South Wales. The genocide of the Tasmanian aboriginals is well known, indeed the last remaining aboriginal on that island died in recent memory.

    I’m more than happy to have the argument with you that the six white-settler British colonies (now forming the nation-state Australia) treated the Indigenous people of the continent abysmally – but if you’re claiming that you know more than the historians I’ve read and referred to – merely after doing a Wiki search – you need to get serious!

  1065. That’s an opinion from someone who is clearly prone to issuing opinions on subjects after 5 milliseconds exposure …

    Your “opinion” is therefore worthless.

    Btw, I am not attempting anything systematic. If you had read anything I had written you would understand that. You would also have understood that it is the narratives which are systematic, they have to be because of their design method, as I have also explained …

    If you have nothing better to offer than half-baked, spurious, “opinion”, you might be best advised in keeping quiet until you are better informed.

    MG

  1066. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Anonymous

    [Entirely off-topic digressions will be less likely to be published.]

    Out of curiosity, I just took a cursory glance at Windschuttle’s Wiki entry:

    “He was editor of Quadrant magazine 2008”

    [MORE]

    Just so you know it is well known around the world that the three-lettered US intel agency was instrumental in the establishment and funding of what’s called front organizations. It was revealed in 1966, that one such front was the Congress for Cultural Freedom which at its height was active in 35 nations. Quadrant was one such magazine that the CCF funded.

    A former party leader of the, then, opposition party in the state of New South Wales, Peter Coleman, actually wrote a book about it, called The Liberal Conspiracy: The Congress for Cultural Freedom and the Struggle for Mind of Postwar Europe, The Free Press, New York. 1989.

    If you don’t mind me saying, you really do need to brush up on Operation Mockingbird, Operation Gladio, the US’s Stay-Behind policy, the US Church Committee & so, so many other resources in the public domain that expose the CIA’s nefarious activities in its client states – before you believe everything you read without questioning it.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1067. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Professor W. Ian Lipkin is a world authority on infectious disease especially on the two previous novel coronaviruses SARS and MERS. He did not get that way by catching such diseases. Nothing the Chinese had said before Professor Lipkin left for China gave him any indication that the Wunan disease was not in the SARS and MERS infectiousness ballpark because the 2015 MERS epidemic had been more or less restricted to a couple of South Korean hospitals so the Wuhan disease having a limited amount of person to person transmission sounded plausible, but was a very different thing to the reality. How the Chinese authorities could have believed what they told Lipkin and the rest of the world is quite difficult to understand, but probably has much to do with their one party state system.

    Because of his long standing friendly relationship with China and the respect they treated him with of his semi official regular visits there Lipkinn believed the Chinese over the Wuhan disease even though he knew that they had admitted covering up what was happening in 2002 during the SARS epidemic. According to the information they put out those Wuhan patients who had not caught it at a wet market and the other cases were from very close contact in the hospital, and thus the that the transmission between people was similar to that of MERS and certainly no greater that SARS. Lipkin was not going over their to treat patients so there was no possibility of his being infected, still less a pandemic.

    About the misleading information that China provided to him and other international experts Lipkin was quoted ‘we will never find out what the Chinese knew and when’. On the 24th of January, Doctor Fauci gave a briefing for senators in which he said there was very little danger to the US from the Wuhan disease. Later that day he repeated that opinion at a press conference. During this time the Chinese were demanding that international flights from China be accepted by other countries but they had banned all internal flights from Wuhan. When he got back his university (who had been watching the news and did not trust China as much as Lipkin) told him to go home and self isolate, and as it turned out they were right to because he had the disease.

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1068. Half Back says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well Godfree would have serious doubts about the kind of investigation Australia is calling for.
    One only has to look at the current MH 17 case in the Netherlands to see such a travesty of justice. Anonymous witnesses, staged appointed defense lawyers, one countries secret intelligence service SUB giving testimony in secret and not allowed to challenged or cross examined.
    Australia played a nefarious role early by allowing a possible culprip to be part of the investigation and that said party could withhold evidence
    Maybe China was watching when British Pm may lied to parliament when she said… only Russia has the culpability….However bozo and current PM spilled the beans by saying Portion Down had said they (PD) had the chemicals also. Finally wizard and your type of friend Elliot Higgins of bellincrap who sitts around in women’s underwear documenting white helmets misdeeds.
    Just at precisely President Assad id about to have a military victory this is time he can’t control himself and decided to gas people (in knowledge of the international opprobrium (as well as missiles strikes) it would give him. And he keeps repeating this behavior. sorry real whistle blowers have called time on Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons which have been found out to be corrupt.
    So all up it would be a stitch up. I notice Trump is pounding China has to pay billions……we are very close to war. For this entire century the west as lied made war, sanction and staved , deprived millions of econic livelhood, so I hardly care that China has protested about a ‘investigation’.

    https://johnhelmer.net/blind-justice-dumb-lawyers-in-the-mh17-trial-new-dutch-court-ruling-allows-secret-witness-testimony-for-the-prosecution/#more-22637

    A new ruling by three Dutch judges in the trial of Russia for having shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 will allow the Ukrainian secret service, the SBU, to present fabricated witness evidence without investigation or cross-examination by defence lawyers representing one of the four military officers accused of launching a BUK anti-aircraft missile at MH17.

    https://johnhelmer.net/how-many-witnesses-are-there-of-sergei-and-yulia-skripal-at-the-salisbury-hospital-in-march-2018-when-they-were-under-the-supervision-of-these-medical-staff/

    read how Julia Skripal is held hostage/kidnapped. Do you care?

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1069. FB says: • Website
    @JDTrader

    About the toilet paper issue…I couldn’t get any for days…but incredibly there was tons of kleenex available…on sale too…

    Couldn’t believe people weren’t buying it…there were several pallets…I guess people just didn’t make the connection…

    Never underestimate the stupidity of people…

    Thanks for sharing about your massive medical bills…

    Just wondering why you describe China and Vietnam government as having a ‘false mask’ of care for the people…

    I don’t know about Vietnam but I’m sure the Chinese government does sincerely care for their people…

  1070. @Wizard of Oz

    Marise Payne, like her predecessor Julie “The only language the Chinese understand is force” Bishop, has been lying about China, threatening China, and interfering with China’s internal affairs since 2018.

    China has done none of those things in its dealings with Australia.

    However, should the Chinese people catch wind of Ms. Payne’s behavior and the Chief Censor decide to stand aside (he usually damps down attacks on foreign countries because China has millions of rabid nationalists constantly urging nuclear war) and let the public have its way, then the Australian economy is finished for the foreseeable future.

    The ambassador tried to point out this imminent and very real danger but instead was ‘summoned’ to explain his attempts at ‘coercion.’

    My people are congenital idiots. There is no other possible explanation.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Seraphim
  1071. @Sean

    Nothing in the public record supports your claim that Dr. Lipkin was deceived or misinformed or misled. He was a latecomer to the scene, having left a week after the world saw the city of Wuhan–11,000,000 people–completely shut down. He knew why, too, because the WHO had been publishing daily bulletin. Let me repeat that public timeline:

    December 31, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declared that there was no evidence to show human-to-human transmission at this point (for instance, no medical worker had been infected).

    January 4, That conclusion was verified by the first expert team of China’s National Health Commission. At regular intervals, both the National Health Commission and the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission reported that there was simply no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission.

    January 15, the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission reiterated this, but then said that the possibility of limited human-to-human transmission could not be ruled out; however, the commission noted that the possibility of sustained human-to-human transmission remained low.

    January 20 The first official statement that verified human-to-human transmission was made on by China’s leading respiratory disease expert, Zhong Nanshan.

    January 21, The National Health Commission reportedthat the novel coronavirus was a Class B infectious disease and that Class A methods of prevention had to be adopted.

    January 23, Wuhan was shut down and the Chinese government began operating on an emergency basis.

    January 29–a week after Wuhan was shut down, Ian Lipkin flew to China.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1178317.shtml

    • Replies: @Alden
  1072. @Godfree Roberts

    So you seem to be saying that a civilised government of intelligent educated people in which its people have exceptional trust chooses not to use its prestige to damp down belligerent nationalistic ardour but to encourage it so it can be used as a threat to force countries to avoid even requesting some course of action that China disapproves despite it not being able to result in any outcome which hurts China otherwise than by losing face. None too dignified I suggest.

  1073. @JDTrader

    As you say the rush on toilet paper was not a supply issue; in Australia at least. It didn’t have to be imported and there was never going to be a shortage.

    So why toilet paper?

    The key to understanding why it triggered bizarre behaviour seems to be just its very low density; in other words a relatively small mass of the product occupies a large volume of shelf space and any substantial increase in demand could easily empty the shelves at which point all customers think there might be a problem that they should anticipate by buying as much as possible when they can.

    • Replies: @Biff
  1074. @Half Back

    I don’t know whether you are attempting to produce a smoke screen or just trying to wear down readers with critical faculties by throwing together every bit of irrelevant junk but you do say one thing that can expose you to testing.

    You say ” Well Godfree would have serious doubts about the kind of investigation Australia is calling for.”

    Did you read all that Marise Payne has said about it? Having done so pray tell us what you say is the kind of investigation that Australia is calling for? What reasonable objections could an allegedly impartial observer have to that?

  1075. TT says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    @Hippo & @Alden

    According to both historians & bird observer, Rockefeller Institutions don’t run by Chinese migrating bird or labour. Try guessing its ethnic again.

    Did a US Military Experimental Vaccine in 1918 Kill 50-100 Million People Blamed as “Spanish Flu”?
    by Kevin Barry, President
    First Freedoms, Inc.

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2018/11/spanish-flu-of-1918-was-really-a-bioterror-attack-on-humanity/

    The pandemic was not Spanish. The first cases of bacterial pneumonia in 1918 trace back to a military base in Fort Riley, Kansas.

    From January 21 – June 4, 1918, an experimental bacterial meningitis vaccine cultured in horses by the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research in New York was injected into soldiers at Fort Riley.

    During the remainder of 1918 as those soldiers – often living and traveling under poor sanitary conditions – were sent to Europe to fight, they spread bacteria at every stop between Kansas and the frontline trenches in France.

    One study describes soldiers “with active infections (who) were aerosolizing the bacteria that colonized their noses and throats, while others—often, in the same “breathing spaces”—were profoundly susceptible to invasion of and rapid spread through their lungs by their own or others’ colonizing bacteria.” (1)

    The “Spanish Flu” attacked healthy people in their prime. Bacterial pneumonia attacks people in their prime. Flu attacks the young, old and immunocompromised.

    When WW1 ended on November 11, 1918, soldiers returned to their home countries and colonial outposts, spreading the killer bacterial pneumonia worldwide.

    During WW1, the Rockefeller Institute also sent the antimeningococcic serum to England, France, Belgium, Italy and other countries, helping spread the epidemic worldwide.

  1076. @Anonymous

    It’s a survival skill. A good laugh at government stupidity helped a lot in the USSR. It helps just as much in the US.

  1077. denk says:
    @vot tak

    beentheredonethat

    CHINA is fascist, I challenge anyone to refute it.

    He’s been quacking like a troll alright.

    Why the hell’d I care if China is fascist or whatever shit the troll wanna call them?
    The Chinese mind their own biz, .

    OTOH,
    IM now into the 2nd month of lockdown, courtesy of those MASter of universe [[[mofo]]] who engineered this caper and ….true to from, blame the victims .

  1078. @Jazman

    Thanks!
    The lockdown, imposed weeks later than it would have made a difference, did not slow down the epidemic, but it did slow down my work. So, I have a bit more time for this now.

  1079. @Anon

    You are right. We don’t need conspiracy explanations when simple stupidity and ineptitude of the government at all levels suffices. Occam’s razor.

  1080. Sean says:

    Wuhan is the world capital of fentanyl and its precursor chemicals that are legal and remain uncontrolled despite the US asking the Chinese to ban them for a decade. The Deaths of Despair are rocketing from use of Fentanyl with those area most hurt by Chinese trade seeing the greatest fatal drug overdoses among working-age whites. the real estate market has been skewed. Two decades ago the US removed tariffs from China and since then the redundant whites suffered increasingly high levels of obesity and hypertension while “a rapacious health-care sector redistributes working-class wages into the pockets of the wealthy” and the Chinese Fentanyl magnates are buying up real estate so fast in places like places like Vancouver they have priced everyone out the market.

    January 21, The National Health Commission reported that the novel coronavirus was a Class B infectious disease

    But it is in fact a Class A Infectious disease (meaning one so contagious between humans that it will cause an epidemic) and that ought to have been obvious to the Chinese by the 21 January. Maybe it was, but we will never know. However the Chinese have misled the world twice over novel coronavirus outbreaks and we now know we cannot trust them.

    January 29–a week after Wuhan was shut down, Ian Lipkin flew to China.

    Where he caught the virus, and then was allowed to fly back to New York because China had not informed the world that they had any sustained human-to-human transmission and China continued saying that the possibility of sustained human-to-human transmission remained low and so the rest of the world ought to keep accepting flights from China. Yet they had already banned internal flights, what does that tell you?

    It was the 20th January when the Chinese announced person to person transmission and they said that had not been any person to person transmission in Wuhan that was outside a hospital. They knew the disease was not SARS or MERS by that time, and that there were 136 new infections discovered over the weekend in Wuhan alone, so how could they genuinely think the possibility of sustained human-to-human transmission remained low. That the Chinese thought the lion’s share of those cases stemmed from animal to human transmission is far from likely.

    Anyway the current world pandenic and teans of thousand of deaths a day are have more than a little to do with China ignoring infectious disease expert Lipkin’s decades of pleading for them to stop torturing animals in their search for sexual prowess and garstronomic thrills

    POINT which I was making to everybody while in China: I said, “Look, guys, I talked to you about this in 2003 and 2004 and 2005 and every year since. We cannot have these wildlife markets.” I’m thinking that, finally, we’re going to get some traction. This outbreak may be the thing that allows us to make this point unequivocally

    The point was made by everyone and you would think China might pay attention after the deaths of a hundred thousand people, but the Chinese government have reopened those markets where live animals are butchered and skinned right alongside the stalls where customers are browsing. And despite the current epidemic, the World Health Organisation supported that decision of China to reopen the wet markets.

    THE FCI has named Shanghai the venue for the 2019 World Dog Show. This is the first time China will ever host such an event and, hitherto, of course, China has been known in canine circles mainly for its dog-eating cuisine, in which man’s best friend is often skinned and boiled alive according to the diktats of Chinese culinary tradition.

    China has only contempt for the foreigners it pays off, but those who try to engage with China for pure motives are destined to suffer blowback just like Lipkin did.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1081. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Despite your grandly claiming to look more at forest than trees you remind me of quite clever and even very clever people who are “on the spectrum” as the jargon is. Sadly you seem unlikely to emulate the very clever Michael Burry and help UR readers to make fortunes.

    [MORE]

    I invite your other reader’s to note how blind you must be to what others, if attentive, are bound to notice. Your claiming Malcolm Turnbull as Jewish is ridiculous unless you are subtly trying to prove the ideas you appear to promote are absurd. There is just no way that you can link him to your patently false allegation of dual citizenship on the Ground that *if* his mother was Jewish he would be entitled to apply for Israeli citizenship. And then there is – but surely here you are revealed as a troll – your postulating that the maximum 6 Jewish MPs and Senators celebrated by The Times of Israel that you yourself quote on Malcolm Turnbull can be correctly called “approximately a dozen” (whom you offer to name and on which offer I now take you up).

    Then you refer to
    “the Israeli dual-citizens went to a zionist legal firm, Leibler & Co. (Mark Leibler, who’s also head of the Zio. Org of Australia, btw) to cover their backsides when registering their foreign affiliations for Parliament. It is on that country’s parliamentary website – if you care to look …..
    Well I did look at what I take you to be referring to, namely

    Foreign Influence Transparency Scheme Register – Transparency Register

    https://transparency.ag.gov.au/

    I’ve checked all 276 entries. So what do you say it should show me? There are a number of former MPs on the register but none of them Jews and no current MPs or Senators. So do I have to take it that you are offering a trolls contribution by saying that Arnold Bloch, Linker & Co gave advice to Jewish members (which BTW?) And assured them that either MPs were not required to register or that their pretty typical membership of a Zionist organisation didn’t require registration? If you aren’t trolling and you apply elementary logic you still need to show that the Jews in Parliament are dual nationals to back up the case you originally put and haven’t admitted was rubbish.

    Your status as a legal autistic if the stubborn kind that ends up being barred as a vexatious litigant is evidenced by what, if you were a lawyer would be regarded as your unethical citing of Section 44(1) of which I set out the relevant words in full;

    *44. Any person who –

    (i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power: ”

    If you were a lawyer you would at least be subject to disciplinary proceedings if you tried to conceal from the court that higher court decisions had NOT left those final words as applicable to someone who might merely obtain the rights and privileges by making application which he has not made.

    And, hey, folks: he really is a TROLL. Look at what he claims is in Sec.44 “if you were to read it” and see if you can find the word “eligible” which he proffered as a literal quote.

    And now finally please stop hiding reality from FB and other suckers and come clean on where else you can be found with your store of George Orwell inspired research as indicated by “I have outlined elsewhere why State Capture is pernicious for the public good and national interest of any liberal-democracy…”
    and
    “Elsewhere, I have also listed the requirements for State Capture to succeed:”.

    C’mon, time to fess up😎

    • Troll: Patagonia Man
  1082. @Anon

    In my book, it’s more the capability and competence of the government than the people. However, the psychology of the populace also contributes. East Asian countries were the most successful in combating this epidemic partly because of the discipline of their people. Russia tried the same strategy and could not contain the epidemic early because Russians tend to ignore anything the government says (this was true under tsars, in Soviet times, as well as in the 30 post-Soviet years). So, East Asian-style success did not materialize. Still, due to government competence Russia does not have a disaster like the US, Italy, Spain, France, and others whose governments are pathetically incompetent. I suspect Germany is doing better than its neighbors largely due to the discipline of the population. Americans are just as prone to disregard the rules as Russians, so the difference between the US and Russia is exclusively due to government competence. Don’t know enough about Indians. Anyway, India has about as many different nations and languages as Europe, so all generalizations are likely false.

  1083. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    Julian Assange is an Australian citizen. The UK is a thoroughly zionized country. How come that the supposedly proud Australian government has been in cahoots with the UK/US zionists against the honest journalist who has exposed the crimes against humanity committed during the (still ongoing) Wars for Israel?

    Was not Assange accused of sexual improprieties with a grown woman who never wanted to see Assange arrested? The Australian government never demanded from the UK government to free Assange or at least to give him a fair trial. Why? Yet the British subject Ghislaine Maxwell, guilty of raping and procuring the underage girls for wealthy pedophiles, was never questioned by UK law enforcement agencies. Guess, the Jewish criminal (and Mossad agent) is untouchable in the UK. It would be so antisemitic to question Ghislaine Maxwell! Her property in the UK is, of course, under good care.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  1084. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    Are you from Pompeo’ staff? He is also troubled by the devel0pment in Hong Kong.
    The fate of Julain Assange, a political prisoner in UK high-security prison laced with covid-19, and the handicapping the Frehcn protesters are beyond Pompeo’s X-tian interests in democracy:

    21 NOVEMBER 2019: A year on, the Gilets Jaunes have lost 24 eyes and five hands – and made a deep mark on French society. Now approaching its first anniversary, the movement has brought public attention to the threat posed by police violence.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2019/11/year-gilets-jaunes-have-lost-24-eyes-and-five-hands-and-made-deep-mark-french

  1085. Biff says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    As you say the rush on toilet paper was not a supply issue; in Australia at least.

    Only barbarians use paper to smear shit across their ass. More evolved people such as myself use a bidet to wash myself clean, therefor never needing the dastardly paper skid with a final tuneup with sit down skivies.

  1086. TT says:
    @utu

    It should be reported as PISA score for Shanghai not for China because that what it is. OECD does not try to hide it but still reports it as China score in all graphs and tables it produces. Shanghai is mentioned somewhere there in a fine print, So all kinds of shills like Godfree Roberts have an extra talking point, another slide they can beat you over the head with.

    Your false allegation to call Godfree as shill is without merit. China(Shanghai) was first invited to participate in 2009 PISA Test with India. OECD clearly indicated it as “Shanghai, China”, not as you falsely stated.

    2000~2012 PISA Ranking
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment_(2000_to_2012)

    The 2018 PISA ranking footnote clearly said its 4 provinces: (Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang). Shanghai is the most populous city proper in the world akin to a province by itself.

    Shanghai 22,315,474
    Beijing 11,716,620
    Jiangsu 80.4M
    Zhejiang 57.37M
    Total sampling come from >170M, representing more than 10% of China population.

    *If my understanding is correct, PISA took only a sampling test of a nation, not entire country.

    In 2009 PISA Test, only 500k students were tested globally from 73 countries tens of millions students. Similar to China, India onlu sent its best students from its two best states Himachal Pradesh & Tamil Nadu to participate for first time, not from entire India.

    The result was expected to be No.1 Ranking for India in widespread myth that Indians are the smartest with best English Reading Proficiency, Mathematics & Science to helm all top West Corps, dominating West IT & Medical(25% of US & UK Drs), but turned out disastrous BOTTOM 2ND, only beating Kyrgyzstan in Reading & Maths, but LAST in Science.

    https://m.timesofindia.com/home/education/news/Indian-students-rank-2nd-last-in-global-test/articleshow/11492508.cms

    The survey is based on two-hour tests that half a million students are put through. China’s Shanghai province, which participated in PISA for the first time, scored the highest in reading. It also topped the charts in mathematics and science. “More than one-quarter of Shanghai’s 15 year olds demonstrated advanced mathematical thinking skills to solve complex problems, compared to an OECD average of just 3%,” noted the analysis.

    The states of Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh, showpieces for education and development, were selected by the central government to participate in PISA, but their test results were damning. 15-yr-old Indians 200 points behind global topper.

    Comparing scores, experts estimate that an Indian eighth grader is at the level of a South Korean third grader in math abilities or a second-year student from Shanghai when it comes to reading skills.

    If taking Shanghai alone, China will not just Rank No.1, but actually two grades above the entire world beyond any comparison. There are 8x more advanced Chinese students than OECD average.

    After 2015 PISA Test including 4 provinces (Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu, Guangdong 113.46M), China ranking dropped to Top6 Maths /10 Science /27 Reading. Some analyst reckoned that the drop was a result of lacking computer skill/accessibility in some rural schools after the PISA test was switched from paper to PC based. But China probably rectify that weakness after 2015 Test.

    Here’s 2015(2012) PISA Ranking separating Shanghai & China, proving China has indeed improved spectacularly within 3yrs, beating even Singapore in 2018 Test.

    https://www.tes.com/news/pisa-glance-global-education-rankings-science-maths-and-reading?amp=

    • Disagree: utu
    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  1087. @Patagonia Man

    As our host has pointed out this is off topic and in a very big way. I don’t know who you may be doing your Rainman impersonation for but you you do seem to be good at emptying the contents of your mind without relevance to anything that has gone before. But I have indeed been well aware for at least 35 years of the assistance given to both Quadrant and Encounter indirectly by the CIA in their early days. As I became a friend of Peter Coleman it could not have been otherwise.
    The short answer is “so what”.

    • Troll: Patagonia Man
  1088. TT says:
    @dogbumbreath

    Fort Detrick shutdown might be a false flag to cover as an accidental bioweapon Lab leaking, just in case US is caught red handed of its global bioterrorism & Herd Immunity program that kills hundreds of thousands Americans.

    Time lines revealed exact COVID symptoms pneumonia started since Jan2019, with similar ground glass lung CT Scan.

    [MORE]

    #Jan19
    Over 2,000 serious hospitalized cases of lung failure pneumonia recorded, indicating a wide spread infections. US CDC blamed it on e-cigarette or vaping associated lung injury (EVALI), yet not a single case happen in entire world.

    https://phpa.health.maryland.gov/OEHFP/EH/Pages/VapingIllness.aspx

    Symptoms of Vaping-Associated Lung Injury

    These injuries often seem like pneumonia, but they are not caused by an infectious disease, and they do not improve with antibiotics. Respiratory symptoms reported include: shortness of breath, chest pain, pain on breathing, and cough. Other symptoms reported by many patients include: fever, chills, nausea, weight loss, vomiting, diarrhea, or abdominal pain.

    #30Jun19
    Respiratory illness outbreak at retirement home kills 2 and sickens dozens more in Virginia:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/virginia-retirement-community-respiratory-illness-outbreak/index.html

    #12Jul19
    Second Fairfax county retirement community suffers respiratory llness-outbreak.

    https://wjla.com/news/local/second-fairfax-co-retirement-community-suffers-respiratory-illness-outbreak

    #Jul19
    Why Ft Detrick Lab, Maryland was shut down by CDC?
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182694.shtml

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick-biohazard.html

    Why US CDC suddenly withdrawn its epidemiologist Dr. Linda Quick embedded in China CDC to help detect epidemic outbreak?
    https://www.physiciansweekly.com/exclusive-u-s-axed-cdc/amp/

    #Aug19
    Why 10,000 sudden early large scale “flu” deaths in US? How many of the 31M “flu” infected & 31,000 deaths are COVID? (US CDC chief admitted some). These can be traced from their lung CT Scan records easily in millions of pneumonia cases, even to exhume some for test.

    #18Oct19
    Why Pentagon hawks & CIA Deputy Director joined Event 201 that simulated exactly what COVID is rolling out now?
    https://hub.jhu.edu/2019/11/06/event-201-health-security/

    #18~27Oct19
    Why US still refuse to test (or disclose) those USM 369 soldiers send to Wuhan military game to see if they ever been COVID infected(antibody)? How’s Maatje Benassi?
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1183658.shtml
    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/25/china-us-brought-covid19-to-china-during-army-games-hid-disease-in-us-as-influenza/

    #B/Nov19
    How US intelligence knew & warned WH to proctect USM bases surrounding China on Wuhan cataclysmic outbreak? (ABC news)
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

    #M/Nov19
    Why US intelligence alerted Nato-Israel-allies on Wuhan cataclysmic outbreak, but not China & WHO? (Timesofisrael)
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report//

    #15Nov19
    Why US CDC recruiting quarantine specialists for all states in Nov19~May20? (US CDC)
    https://jobs.cdc.gov/job/dallas/public-health-advisor-quarantine-program/250/14136286

    #17Dec19
    Why SK so coincidentally held mobilization on China Coronavirus outbreak spreading by return Koreans to fully prepare itself timely for outbreak? They said pure luck. (Reuters)
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-30/south-koreas-emergency-exercise-in-december-facilitated-coronavirus-testing-containment

    #27Dec19
    Why China Wuhan Dr Zhang Jixian only detected first few suspect cases mths later than US intelligence report?
    http://en.people.cn/mobile/new/content.html?cI=1002&nI=9680648&aT=m

    #31Dec19
    China CDC notified WHO & US CDC on unknown nCov cases. Why US kept silence on its intelligence till now?

    #Jan20~Now
    Why CDC & WH need discuss Covid19 outbreak in a top secret secure facility, with everything Classified Top Secret? Because staffers said, “It has something to do with China.”

    White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations – sources
    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN20Y2LM

    The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials.

    The officials said that dozens of classified discussions about such topics as the scope of infections, quarantines and travel restrictions have been held since mid-January in a high-security meeting room at the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), a key player in the fight against the coronavirus.

    The meetings at HHS were held in a secure area called a “Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility,” or SCIF, according to the administration officials.

    SCIFs are usually reserved for intelligence and military operations. Ordinary cell phones and computers can’t be brought into the chambers. HHS has SCIFs because theoretically it would play a major role in biowarfare or chemical attacks.

    20Mar20
    Why did U.S. erase large number of news reports on the internet covering Ft Detrick Lab shutdown?

    Petition urges US gov’t to clarify army lab shutdown as doubts grow over COVID-19’s origin
    http://en.people.cn/n3/2020/0321/c90000-9670852.html

    Why Fort Detrick military lab was shut down? Why flu-season came earlier all of sudden? What caused vaping pneumonia? Why not allow people to do coronavirus testing? What are you trying to hide? You own everyone an explanation,” Twitter user Julius Ryde commented, directly addressing President Trump.

    __________
    #Why did U.S. withdraw from 1972 Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC) in 2001?

    #Why did US threaten & prevent UNSC setting up a monitoring mechanism for the execution of the BTWC Convention? Is it standing in the way of developing biological weapon for the U.S.?

    Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) Compliance Protocol
    https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/biological-weapons-convention-bwc/

    #Why US need increase its BSL4 Lab from 2 to 12, BSL3 Labs increase by 900 after 911 that are self policing?
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/biosecurity-in-question-at-us-germ-labs/

    #Why Pentagon need patented attenuated Coronavirus, and war funded 400 bioweapon Labs set up globally?
    https://patents.justia.com/patent/10130701

    The Pentagon Bio-weapons
    http://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/amp/

    The US Army regularly produces deadly viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons. Hundreds of thousands of unwitting people are systematically exposed to dangerous pathogens and other incurable diseases. Bio warfare scientists using diplomatic cover test man-made viruses at Pentagon bio laboratories in 25 countries across the world.

    These US bio-laboratories are funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) under a $ 2.1 billion military program– Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP), and are located in former Soviet Union countries such as Georgia and Ukraine, the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa.

    https://sites.google.com/site/bioterrorbible/BIO-WEAPONS/RACE-SPECIFIC-BIO-WEAPONS

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  1089. TT says:
    @utu

    This is how US allies SK, Jp, Twn, Spore esp those with USM bases are best response to epidemic. Why?

    The USM had tipped off allies for advanced preparation mths in advanced of their bioterrorism attack on China.

    Of course another main factor is the experience of Chinese ethnic targeting SARS for badly hit Taiwan, HK, Macau & Singapore. All have established epidemic respond team & taking early swift action since B/Jan20 upon China reported suspected cases to WHO.

    For SK, its the MERS experience. But “pure luck” was what SK said, for been ally of USM. US ally India is another lucky one to take early action.

    South Korea’s Emergency Exercise in December Facilitated Coronavirus Testing, Containment
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-03-30/south-koreas-emergency-exercise-in-december-facilitated-coronavirus-testing-containment

    SEOUL (Reuters) – A South Korean tabletop exercise on emergency responses to a fictional mysterious outbreak led directly to tools the country deployed less than a month later to manage the arrival and spread of the coronavirus, one of the experts involved said.

    According to an undisclosed government document seen by Reuters, on Dec. 17 two dozen leading South Korean infectious diseases specialists tackled a worrying scenario: a South Korean family contracts pneumonia after a trip to China, where cases of an unidentified disease had arisen.

    The hypothetical disease quickly spreads among the colleagues of the family members and medical workers who treated them. In response, the team of experts at the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) developed an algorithm to find the pathogen and its origin, as well as testing techniques.

    Those measures were mobilized in real life when a first suspected coronavirus patient appeared in South Korea on Jan. 20, the document said.

    “Looking back over the past 20 years, humans were most tormented by either influenza or coronaviruses, and we’re relatively doing well on influenza but had been worried about the possibility of the outbreak of a novel coronavirus,” said Lee Sang-won, one of the KCDC experts who led the drill.

    “It was blind luck – we were speechless to see the scenario become reality,” Lee added. “But the exercise helped us save much time developing testing methodology and identifying cases.”

    The exercise played a key role in slowing what became Asia’s largest coronavirus epidemic outside China using aggressive and sustained testing.

    Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November: Sources
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

    The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia — forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.

    “Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event,” one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. “It was then briefed multiple times to” the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House.

    US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — report
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report//

    According to Channel 12 news, the US intelligence community became aware of the emerging disease in Wuhan in the second week of that month and drew up a classified document.
    Information on the disease outbreak was not in the public domain at that stage — and was known only apparently to the Chinese government.

    Of course Israel won’t let any disaster goes to waste without sabotage US by “leaking” intelligence report, while hinting China covered up to allow virus spreading to kill its own economy since Nov19.

    Taiwan has many thousands of workers returning from Wuhan during outbreak. It also has infected Princess Cruise calling its port as part of tourism package. It only banned China visitors after outbreak but not on the rest, esp US & EU initially.

    Yet it has only very few cases without need to conduct extensive testing, tracing, quarantine & lockdown is very suspicious. The COVID strains of Taiwan is “B” & “C”, while China is “C” using Chinese “ABCDE” study. Taiwan thinks its “B” came from US.

    • Thanks: annamaria
  1090. @Hail

    And meanwhile, MSM blissfully ignore the 3000 or so murdered by US quisling Eltsyn when he had tanks firing at the parliament and protests repressed around the Moscow area.
    See for instance Alex Krainer’s books on Browder’s dangerous lies.

  1091. This article contains some weighty arguments, such as the ABC reporting, confirmed by Israeli TV.

    On the other hand, it seems too much is made of the case of Charles Lieber, whose work is not in virology at all, from what I have seen on the Harvard site (http://cml.harvard.edu/publicationposts/2018), but in nanotechnology, even though the bulk of his research has biological and medical applicability.

    On the other hand, the grounds for his arrest are not a simple technicality, from what I understand, but part of a current crackdown on technology transfer to China. I’m not implying the crackdown is legitimate; but that there is sufficient motivation on that front to explain away the event.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @annamaria
  1092. Christoph says: • Website

    What if the enemy was an independent China as much as any independent nation state?
    That way the West’s delays become plausible.
    Cui bono?
    1. Even more centralized economic planning shifts power to global high finance;
    2. Universal abolition of citizen rights is an exercise in dictatorship;
    3. Culling the weak from an exploding population is an old oligarchic fantasy;
    4. Vaxing 7 bn people through a Patriot Act like initiative ensures that everyone and their offspring stay obedient.

    China haters alone may or may not be dangerous enough to pull this off.
    But an unholy alliance of globalists, traditional eugenicists, misguided spooks, and big pharma are a real threat.

  1093. @Hail

    You don’t get it. It was a bloody revolution, an invasion by proxy; and China had a narrow escape.
    Thank God for that!

  1094. Iris says:
    @Jean-Marie L.

    On the other hand, it seems too much is made of the case of Charles Lieber, whose work is not in virology at all, from what I have seen on the Harvard site, but in nanotechnology, even though the bulk of his research has biological and medical applicability.

    Think about it again.

    Nanotechnologies, on the contray, are a dream tool to execute the extremely minute and skilled work for a molecular biologist to modify and make inserts at the level of a virus’ ARN.

    Nanothechnologies are the perfect tools to engineer a virus.

  1095. @Sean

    Wuhan is the world capital of fentanyl and its precursor chemicals that are legal and remain uncontrolled despite the US asking the Chinese to ban them for a decade

    . The US, with five percent of the world’s population, consumes eighty percent of its opioids. Of 229 trafficking cases–in which 537kg of fentanyl-related substances were seized between last October and March–only seventeen seizures, weighing 6kg, originated in China. US fentanyl seizures show China is not the main supplier, Beijing drugs official says. The US Department of Justice says, “China has made great strides and the Department is encouraged by China’s recent class-wide controls of fentanyl-like substances.”
    Americans consume opioids because of bribery, weak regulation, poor enforcement, over-prescription, and endemic social despair. There’s not much China can do about that.

    But it is in fact a Class A Infectious disease (meaning one so contagious between humans that it will cause an epidemic) and that ought to have been obvious to the Chinese by the 21 January. Maybe it was, but we will never know

    . Here we go again:

    January 7, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identified the novel coronavirus (nCoV). The WHO posted a note on its website on January 9. It made two points: first, that the Chinese investigators had done a preliminary identification of the novel virus, which—in such a short period—is “a notable achievement and demonstrates China’s increased capacity to manage new outbreaks”; second, that such viruses are complex, since “some transmit easily from person to person, while others do not. According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people.”

    January 9, the Chinese authorities told the WHO about initial progress toward determining the cause of the viral pneumonia. It needs to be understood that at that time there was no clarity about the virus. It was just two days earlier, on

    January 11, the WHO informed the public that it has received “the genetic sequences for the novel coronavirus from the Chinese authorities”; that day, the WHO issued an interim guidance on how to prepare if this virus spread widely.

    January 13, China made the first test kits available.

    Jan 15–Wuhan’s health commission said that “although significant evidence confirming human-to-human transmission has yet to be found, the possibility of limited human-to-human transmission cannot be ruled out”.

    Jan. 21– WHO confirms human-to-human transmission of the virus.

    Jan. 23– Complete cordon sanitaire (not quarantine) around Wuhan.

    Jan. 25–China banned its citizens by Reserving overseas tours and Buying overseas Resorts and flight packages amid the Wuhan coronavirus. Japan tourism company faces 20,000 cancellations from coronavirus outbreak. Tourism industry hit hard as Chinese tourists stay home and China was doing basic health screening of people who left China.

    Jan 30–Dr. Lipkin arrives in China

    the World Health Organisation supported that decision of China to reopen the wet markets.

    Like hundreds of millions of people, I shop at a wet market every day. If you don’t like seeing people kill the animals you are about to eat, that’s your problem. My first chore as a boy was catching and killing chickens for my family to eat, so it doesn’t bother me.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1096. @Iris

    Nanothechnologies are the perfect tools to engineer a virus.

    Look, if you are absolutely 100% ignorant, don’t show it so clearly. As Russian joke puts it, “keep silent, maybe someone will take you for a smart person”.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @Iris
  1097. @Godfree Roberts

    Why are you trying to convince a propaganda shill with facts? When did imperial propaganda let facts stand in the way of approved narrative?

    • Replies: @FB
  1098. @Iris

    I’ve bolded the bits that suggest that American US scientific community, who have international reputations to protect, have begun to walk the story back:

    Coronavirus outbreak in France did not come directly from China, gene-tracing scientists say

    [MORE]

    Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy.

    Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy.

    The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.

    Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.

    “The French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade … we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February,” said researchers led by Dr Sylvie van der Werf and Etienne Simon-Loriere in a non-peer reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org last week.

    The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths.

    France detected the virus in late January, before any other country in Europe. A few patients with a travel history that included China’s Hubei province were sampled on January 24 and tested positive.

    The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths. Photo: AFP

    The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths. Photo: AFP

    The French government took quick and decisive measures to trace contacts of the infected people and shut down the chance of further infection. However, these strains were not found in patients tested after the initial imported cases, suggesting “the quarantine imposed on the initial Covid-19 cases in France appears to have prevented local transmission”, the researchers said.

    The Pasteur institute collected samples from more than 90 other patients across France and found the strains all came from one genetic line. Strains following this unique path of evolution had so far only been detected in Europe and the Americas.

    The earliest sample in the French clade was collected on February 19 from a patient who had no history of travel and no known contact with returned travellers.

    Several patients had recently travelled to other European countries, the United Arab Emirates, Madagascar and Egypt but there was no direct evidence that they contracted the disease in these destinations.

    To the researchers’ surprise, some of the later strains collected were genetically older – or closer to the ancestral root – than the first sample in this clade.

    A possible explanation, according to the authors, was that local transmission had been occurring in France for some time without being detected by health authorities.

    The French government may have missed detecting the transmission. According to the researchers, a large proportion of those patients might have had mild symptoms or none at all.

    The researchers also found that three sequences later sampled in Algeria were closely related to those in France, suggesting that travellers from France might have introduced the virus to the African country and caused an outbreak.

    Benjamin Neuman, professor and chair of biological sciences with the Texas A&M University-Texarkana, said the French strains might have come from Belgium, where some sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered. “Since the earliest European strains of [the coronavirus] Sars-CoV-2 seem to be associated with Belgium, the idea that the virus spread from Belgium to both Italy and France at around the same time seems plausible, as this paper contends,” he said.

    France is the latest in a growing number of countries and areas where no direct link between China and local outbreaks could be established.

    The dominant strains in Russia and Australia, for instance, came from Europe and the United States, respectively, according to some studies.

    These findings have drawn fire from some politicians who have tried to deflect domestic anger over their handling of the crisis by blaming China.

    US President Donald Trump lashed out on social media after two separate teams in the US found the strains devastating New York came from Europe.

    “So now the Fake News @nytimes is tracing the CoronaVirus origins back to Europe, NOT China. This is a first!” he tweeted on April 11, referring to a story about the studies in the The New York Times’ science section.

    The findings also highlight the difficulties governments face in tracing the source of coronavirus outbreaks.

    Less-developed countries may never know where their strains came from due to inadequate testing and sequencing capability.

    India, for example, has released the genetic sequence of fewer than 40 samples to the public so far, a small number considering its huge population.

    Most of the strains sampled in 35 early cases came from clades that could be traced to Italy and Iran, with only a few from China, according to a recent study. But researchers were not able to track further because of the lack of data.

    A scientist on the study, Dr Mukesh Thakur, of the Zoological Survey of India, said it was too early to rule out China as the source of outbreaks in India because the number of samples at hand was limited.

    A 20-year-old student studying medicine in Wuhan, for instance, might have come in contact with many people on the way home before she was tested positive on January 30.
    Thakur said local media reported that the Indian government quarantined 3,500 people possibly linked to three positive cases imported from Wuhan. “God knows how many of them tested positive in the subsequent stages,” Thakur said in an email response to the Post’s queries on Tuesday.
    Some prominent scientists, including Francis Collins, director of the US National Institutes of Health, said the virus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak.

    The virus had thus adapted well to the human body. Some genes regulating its binding to host cells were similar, or even identical, to those found in some other highly infectious human viruses, such as HIV and Ebola.

    According to some estimates, the ancestor of Sars-CoV-2, the virus causing Covid-19, might have left bats between 50 and 70 years ago. A recent study by a team of geneticists in Oxford University estimated the first outbreak of the current pandemic could have occurred as early as September last year.

    They found that the dominant strains circulating in China and Asia were genetically younger than some popular strains in the United States.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3081959/coronavirus-outbreak-france-did-not-come-directly-china-gene

    • Thanks: annamaria
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1099. Seraphim says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Marise Payne is for sure, a payne in the ass. It is sure that the Chinese caught the winds she broke so petulantly. Not that Penny Wong is less of a pain in the same region. Or Peter Dutton, for that matter.
    Your assessment of Ozzies is unfortunately correct. But they believe that Australia is a sovereign country also. The Chinese were right when they said that the Australian Government acted on behalf of ‘other states’. They know that Australia is not the ‘honest broker’ which speaks in her name, but on orders from overseas. “Australia is always there, making trouble”, because it is the role that has been assigned to her in the ‘Great Game’, “be a bully in the region” and possibly on the international stage (to be the ‘sheriff’ in the region is clearly beyond her capacities).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1100. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Poor Godfree…

    He’s such an earnest fellow…even threw in that story about ‘choking the chicken’ in childhood… [wait…that didn’t really come out quite right…😂]

    But seriously, I think he probably figures [quite correctly] that for each ‘Sean’ there are probably ten more that believe the same nonsense…

    He’s definitely a man on a mission…

    I’m actually very grateful for the effort he puts in here…he produces here just an amazing amount of highly interesting and factual information…

    Bless his heart…👍

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Godfree Roberts
  1101. Sean says:

    1913, China began issuing bonds to foreign investors and governments for infrastructure work to modernize the country.
    April 1938, China began to issue U.S.-dollar denominated bonds to help against Japan’s invasion.
    March 1942, Chin gets a $500 million credit from America which also ships them gold to stabilise their currency. China doesn’t repay their debts.
    October 1, 1949. founding of the People’s Republic of China, and all debts to America and Americans are repudiated. The US overstretched to bring Korea within its security perimeter
    27 July 1953 Korean war ends with after America has been roughly handled by Chinese troops lacking heavy weapons.
    30 April 1975 Vietnam war ends in shocking defeat of US forces of North Vietnam, and although the Chinese were the main backer of the North, China has forced America to cease isolating China
    January 31, 1979 the United States and People’s Republic of China sign agreements on technology, and trade exchanges as China begins to be built up by the US as a counterweight to the Soviet Union.
    2001,China enters WTO, and worry of tariffs disappearing leads to offshorring American predictive capacity begins erode and lose what will amount to 3.4 million manufacturing jobs, while third-party managed retirement funds fuel Chinese growth. By wading in wading in Chinese stocks huge profits are made for hypertrophying treacherous US super rich class. At the same time the top tax rate falls to levels unprecedented except before the Depression.
    2002 SARS-CoV epidemic in China. Being an epidemic it is obviously spread person to person.
    20th January 2020 Chinese announced person to person transmission. But they said that had not been any person to person transmission of SARS-CoV2 in Wuhan that was outside a hospital. They had identified 136 new SARS-CoV2 infections over the weekend in Wuhan alone, so how could they genuinely think the possibility of sustained human-to-human transmission remained low?
    21st January 2020, Chinese say they think the possibility of sustained human-to-human transmission remained low, Neither SARS or MERS outbreaks were caused by animal to human transmission, so how could the Chinese have believed over a hundred people had been infected by the SARS-CoV2 virus by animals in a wet market while shopping there, eh? As would have been obvious to the Chinese by the discovery of all the new cases Jan 20, it was other shoppers in that wet market that infected those people, and hence the Wunhan disease though at an early stage was clearly spreading by sustained human-to-human transmission, so the virus was highly multiplicative and a bio threat to the whole world. So they lied.

  1102. Seraphim says:
    @FB

    There are people who believe that sausages have always been cased in ‘sausage skin’ and not guts! There are people who cannot believe that it was a time when hens and pigs were kept in most backyards, even in towns and they were killed not by ‘choking’ but by slitting their throats. But there are people who believe that the ‘Bunny’ lays the Easter eggs.

  1103. @Godfree Roberts

    They found that the dominant strains circulating in China and Asia were genetically younger than some popular strains in the United States.

    That’s bad news for our virologist-in-chief. In this case his whole “sue China” thing has no leg to stand on.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1104. Jiminy says:

    One thing that I could never follow is that the US ran away with its tail between its legs after the Soleimani assasination. The airbase was bombed, there were scores of soldiers suffering from severe concussion and the whole event seemed to finish with Iran having the upper hand, and the US with egg on its face. I can’t really think of any previous similar situation. They would have known beforehand that Iran had the capability to achieve that and more. I am starting to think that Iran was hit with the virus first, but it’s hard to know anything because of the lack of information and attention Iran gets. While as we can see China receives all of the attention, good or bad as Iran disappears from our memory. And then the US were warned in November of the virus occurring in China. Meanwhile Trump says that it is a hoax, thinking it can’t be in China. It means of course that Iran was hit with the virus before the assasination took place, in a preemptive attack- a favourite with the US. I have seen Iran mentioned before, but it is difficult to tie in.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  1105. Iris says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Look, if you are absolutely 100% ignorant, don’t show it so clearly. As Russian joke puts it, “keep silent, maybe someone will take you for a smart person”.

    First, an advice, “Anonymous Genius”. Addressing people, out of the blue, in a gross and foul language only reveals the gross and foul moron you are.
    Highly-intelligent people are never rude, they don’t need to, as they are not plagued by intellectual inferiority complexes. They have more subtle ways to mock others.

    Second: nanotechnologies are, broadly, defined as the techniques and tools allowing the manipulation of matter at the atomic/nano meter scale (the 10^-9 meter scale).

    INSERM (Institut National de la Sante et de la Recherche Medicale) is the main French medical research organisation:
    https://www.inserm.fr/

    This is what an INSERM webpage says about vectoring nanotechnologies and ARN modification:

    The use of particulate nanovectors today offers answers to the difficulties encountered by conventional therapeutics. It consists of integrating an active ingredient into a vector (micelle, liposome) or to use mineral nanomaterials (gold nanoparticles, porous silicon…) to specifically address this drug to a target tissue, without it being distributed elsewhere in the body. [..]

    Vectoring may also concern an active ingredient whose physical and chemical properties have prevented it from being administrable as is. Carried by the nanovector, the active ingredient is also protected from biological degradation before reaching its target tissue. It can finally be “triggered” or released gradually over time: for this, it is associated with a nanocompound that can be activated under the influence of a signal (laser, X-rays …).

    Nanomedicines could therefore improve the benefit-risk balance of drugs by increasing their effectiveness and bioavailability at the tissue or target organ level, while reducing the doses to be administered and the risk of toxicity.

    Tests are also being conducted to vector micro RNAs, i.e. small sequences of nucleotides (nucleotide: a basic molecule of DNA and RNA) that can regulate the expression of specific genes.

    https://www.inserm.fr/information-en-sante/dossiers-information/nanotechnologies

    That was from a 2015 article, “Anonymous Genius”, you are lagging behind.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @FB
  1106. Seraphim says:
    @Jiminy

    Why the Pentagon denied that there were reports from November?

    • Replies: @Jiminy
  1107. @Iris

    Let me also give you an advice: read things you can comprehend. Do not read things you can make neither head nor tail of.
    FYI:
    1. Nanotechnology has never been used and has never been necessary for genetic engineering. Half of biomedical labs (mine included) did genetic engineering long before the term “nanotechnology” was coined.
    2. MicroRNA is one of the natural mechanisms of the regulation of protein expression (can also be used for research: we do best when we ape nature successfully) and has nothing to do with nanotechnology.
    3. “Nano” is a fashionable term today. I can suggest a new word in the series: “nanofool”.

  1108. Jiminy says:
    @Seraphim

    The answer to that is blowing in the wind. Why not deny it? Is it because there are different factions, some hate trump, some love trump. Or are there people who have their own agenda that they want to see happen. Maybe if you deny and hide or allow it to reappear like a magician, the audience becomes totally baffled. It’s a shame we don’t have Rumsfelds number so we can ask him about our unknowns. But clearly the narrative is changing. Once this is over it will be onto the next news cycle.

  1109. Seraphim says:
    @Patagonia Man

    It was a time, not long ago, when Australian politicians prospective office holders, media personalities, union leaders, political advisers were invited to Israel to be RAMBAMed (vetted?)! Tours organized by the ‘Australian/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council’ (AIJAC).

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Patagonia Man
  1110. FB says: • Website
    @Iris

    Look Iris…

    It’s been clear to me, almost from my first run-in with you that you know very little about science…just enough to be a nuisance, as the saying goes…

    You should heed AnonfromTN’s advice and first understand stuff you read before getting in someone’s hair…

  1111. @FB

    There’s method to my madness. I’m writing a book whose title, I hope, is self-explanatory, Why China Leads the World: Democracy at the Bottom; Data in the Middle; Talent at the Top.

    It tries to explain pretty much everything, at least at the macro level, so I’ve been forced to dig into every Chinese atrocity story, rumor, allegation and lie that our media have dreamed up.

    Fortunately, my authoring software, Scrivener, handles such notes brilliantly so I can usually retrieve relevant responses in seconds. Engaging with skeptics also helps me understand where they’re coming from, which informs the angle I take when addressing each topic.

    • Replies: @FB
  1112. @AnonFromTN

    Here’s a snapshot of the turning tide as of April 29:

    The virus probably first saw daylight (figure of speech) in the good ‘ol USA, just like its predecessors, Spanish Flu and H1N1.

    Covid’s ancestry points to the USA, as a recent Cambridge University study attests: Phylogenetic network analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes. Peter Forster, Lucy Forster, Colin Renfrew, and View ORCID ProfileMichael Forster. PNAS first published April 8, 2020 https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2004999117. Abstract: In a phylogenetic network analysis of 160 complete human severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-Cov-2) genomes, we find three central variants distinguished by amino acid changes, which we have named A, B, and C, with A being the ancestral type according to the bat outgroup coronavirus. The A and C types are found in significant proportions outside East Asia, that is, in Europeans and Americans. In contrast, the B type is the most common type in East Asia, and its ancestral genome appears not to have spread outside East Asia without first mutating into derived B types, pointing to founder effects or immunological or environmental resistance against this type outside Asia.

    Anywhere BUT China, surprisingly. Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris. Some prominent scientists, including Francis Collins, director of the US National Institutes of Health, said the virus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3081959/coronavirus-outbreak-france-did-not-come-directly-china-gene

    Even anecdotally, we’re beginning to see a replay of Awakenings: on April 17 CNN host Chris Cuomo said he believes there will be revelations showing the novel coronavirus was spreading in the United States as early as October. “The kids now anecdotally, Cristina believes, that at least two of them have had it in the last few months. Why? We don’t know, but atypically long-duration sinus, fever, lethargy. I think we’re going to learn that coronavirus has been in this country since, like, October, that there have been cases,” Cuomo said. “And as you guys both know, and I hear all the time from all over the country, how many people do you hear saying, ‘I think I had it, I had this and this, I lost my sense of smell and this and that, but I never got tested’? Those cases are, like, abounding all over the country,” he added.https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/chris-cuomo-predicts-evidence-will-show-coronavirus-was-spreading-in-us-since-october.

    We’re only midway through Act III. The fat lady hasn’t sung yet.

    Never lie to the Chinese…they always discover the truth in the end, anyway

    . Henry Kissinger, Nixon’s China Game.

  1113. Seraphim says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Kissinger was not stupid. On a slightly different note, his advise is reminiscent of Bismarck’s warning against a war with Russia:
    “Do not expect that once taking advantage of Russia’s weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russians have always come for their money. And when they come – do not rely on an agreement signed by you, you are supposed to justify. They are not worth the paper it is written. Therefore, with the Russian is to play fair, or do not play”.
    But the ‘gamblers’ think they can play with China and Russia at the same time and win. Worrying is that the Amoronicans think the same.

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts, annamaria
  1114. @Seraphim

    Fascinating. I had never picked up before that you had any knowledge of or interest in Australia. Can you please give us a glimpse of your back ground, especially whatever can help understand where you are coming from on Oz?
    BTW I think Australia has long since moved to putting first the attempt to balance its relations with both the US and China while realising that it is a virtually impossible task. My own comforting thought is that it is in the interests of no country to see Australia as other than independent. Even China would want to defend a country which so efficiently provides a lot of stuff that it needs and is not actually doing anything that matters if it sends a naval vessel through the South China or hosts a tiny contingent of US marines in the Northern Territory.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  1115. @Godfree Roberts

    The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.

    That assertion appears to be in contradiction to the suggestion made by the professor in Texas, who was quoted in the article you had posted earlier, based on finding highlighted in bold, unless you insert the word “directly” –> “imported directly from China“:

    …the French strains might have come from Belgium, where some sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered. “Since the earliest European strains of [the coronavirus] Sars-CoV-2 seem to be associated with Belgium, the idea that the virus spread from Belgium to both Italy and France at around the same time seems plausible, as this paper contends,” he said.

    According to the data at Worldometer Belgium is the country with the highest registered death rate per million population thus far (if you disregard San Marino), so the focus ought to be directed there, because Belgium may be the European distribution hub for the virus that came from Wuhan.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1116. @Been_there_done_that

    Yes. I suggested that to a Belgian friend and received his reply ten minutes ago:

    Right. That’s exactly what I also was thinking. There must be a reason why belgium was among the first countries so heavily affected.
    First we were fed with the story of the one single patient who came from Wuhan. He was quarantined in a military hospital right from the moment he returned and his contacts were traced by the military intelligence services.
    He cured, he was not patient zero.
    Then, and still now, it were the people who returned from ski holidays in Italy. Not sure what to think about that story.

    The reason why the virus is spreading so fast in belgium, that’s quite clear:
    We’re not Confucianists, we have not a spark of respect for our government, neither for other people. Belgium is not a country, it’s a hotchpotch of different cultures and languages, there’s no social glue, no cohesion in this country. And our federal (national) government is a reflection of that hotchpotch. There’s zero Meritocracy in this country, all decision makers are sociologists. They can’t even read a simple graph or Excel sheet.

    I can feel it coming: in a couple of weeks, it will be clear that the virus was already in belgium, months ago. But for the moment, I haven’t seen a spark of evidence.

  1117. Seraphim says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well, I think that I suggested, if not telling directly that I lived for quite a long time Down Under.

  1118. @Godfree Roberts

    Belgium is not a country…

    It’s true that Belgium is an artificial construct, as was the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia, and therefore also deserves to be “wiped off the map”, in the following manner:

    • Brussels becomes an independent mini-state or “Kingdom”.
    • Flanders, the Flemish region, becomes an independent and affluent country.
    • Wallonia, the French region, becomes a province of France – or independent, if they prefer.
    • The province of Luxembourg becomes part of the Principality of Luxembourg.
    • The small German speaking part in the east (three towns) is integrated into Germany.

    Nonetheless, based on my earlier quotes in bold –”sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered” [in Belgium] –we must assume that the virus from Wuhan came directly to Belgium and then spread farther from there. My guess would be lobbyists or EU bureaucrats coming from Wuhan to Brussels and then spreading it to others there, including parliamentarians and staff from other countries, who live in that region.

    • Agree: Alden
  1119. @Godfree Roberts

    Here is my bet: the politicians in the Empire and its sidekicks won’t let the facts and scientific findings stand in the way of their BS narrative. Because acknowledging the facts would be honest (a no-no for Western politicians), as well as an explicit acknowledgement of their stupidity and incompetence.

    BTW, did you notice bickering between Trump and Dem governors in the US? Reminds me of the episode of Tolkien’s Hobbit, where trolls started calling each other perfectly true and applicable names.

  1120. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Sounds like a GREAT book in the making…

    Hopefully we’ll see some of it here as articles on UNZ…

    Your series on Mao, which was almost a short book, was absolutely tremendous…

    I have since supplemented that knowledge infusion with the works of Dongping Han, the North Carolina history professor who covers a lot of ground on the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, from his experience in living through those times, plus decades of later on the ground research after he moved to the US…

    It’s quite amazing to discover how cartoonish and completely fabricated the entire western narrative on communist China really is…

    And there is no reason to expect that today’s narratives are any more credible…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1121. @Godfree Roberts

    It’s not entirely clear what comes from your Belgian friend and what from you. Still, it seems appropriate to ask you what you think would be the point of finding that Belgian origin for the infections in France – all on the reasonable assumption that the first cases of Covid 19 were in Wigan. Is it just about pushing the date of the origin of the virus back to a new Day One?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1122. meena says:

    “L Brands, the parent company of Victoria’s Secret, was already tarnished by widespread allegations of sexual harassment and the close relationship between its founder, Leslie Wexner, and the sexual offender Jeffrey Epstein. The coronavirus was a heavy new blow.

    But Sycamore faces unusually daunting odds, thanks to clever drafting by L Brands’ lawyers at Davis Polk & Wardwell. In the acquisition agreement, the lawyers carved out specific exceptions to those acts of God, including a pandemic. That meant that even if a pandemic struck, Sycamore would be legally obligated to complete the deal.” NYT
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/29/business/victorias-secret-sycamore-coronavirus.html

    Were they prescient ? Did they have epiphany ? oOr were they informed of the debacle that would shape the business Dow and Wall Street ?

  1123. @FB

    I’ve just got the following from searching for Dongping Han:

    “The Unknown Cultural Revolution challenges the established narrative of China’s Cultural Revolution, which assumes that this period of great social upheaval led to economic disaster, the persecution of intellectuals, and senseless violence. Dongping Han offers a powerful account of the dramatic improvements in the living conditions, infrastructure, and agricultural practices of China’s rural population that emerged in this period. Drawing on extensive local interviews and records in rural Jimo County, …”

    If that is the “works” you are referring to it does sound as though it could double the knowledge of nuances about recent Chinese history for the average reader but hardly displaces the truth of savagery by Red Guards attacking the old at Mao’s instigation. Would you care to elaborate?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1124. meena says:

    US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has stated that he believes multiple laboratories exist in China that are working on contagious pathogens under “unknown security conditions”.
    The US top diplomat also complained that the world was not given access to a virology institute in Wuhan, China, where the pandemic started.
    “There are multiple labs that are continuing to conduct work, we think, on contagious pathogens inside of China today. And we don’t know if they are operating at a level of security to prevent this [pandemic] from happening again. Remember this isn’t the first time that we’ve had a virus come out of China”, Pompeo stated.
    US officials have repeatedly accused China of misreporting the real state of affairs with the COVID-19 outbreak.— https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/us-sec-of-state-claims-multiple-chinese-labs-are-producing-contagious-pathogens/

    Pompeo should allow UN or WHO to investigate US’s bioweapons program in germ labs scattered all over the world

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @utu
    , @450.org
    , @TT
  1125. FB says: • Website

    Would I care to elaborate about Red Guards beating up old people..?

    Well…considering I retired from the Red Guard long ago, my ‘elaboration’ may not amount to much…but I can tell you with some certainty that I have never personally beat up any old people…

    In fact I don’t think I even know one person who has…

    Do you…?

    I’m sure such dreadful things do happen in this crazy world of ours…but I would guess it’s mostly random criminals and social outcasts…

    I would also have a hard time imagining why the leader of the world’s most populous country and one of the world’s oldest civilizations would ‘order’ such a thing..?

    Surely he would have been far too busy figuring out how to starve 100 million people..?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1126. @meena

    Pompeo should allow UN or WHO to investigate US’s bioweapons program in germ labs scattered all over the world

    These labs are in various third-rate countries for a reason: it’s simpler and cheaper. There are no regulations (aborigines aren’t allowed to inspect those labs), there is no CDC breathing down your neck (so nobody can close them, like Ft Detrick), and you can experiment on aborigines: volunteers are cheap and expandable, not to mention that local governments can always supply required numbers of involuntary “volunteers”. Same reason Guantanamo concentration camp is in Cuba – no need to pretend that you abide by the American law.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @d dan
  1127. schrub says:

    A long time ago my old pappy told me a simple fact made a lasting impression on me.

    He said that when the First World gets the (economic) sniffles, the Third World gets the (economic) double pneumonia.

    We (and the rest of the world) were just locked down and essentially lost all our civil rights for a flu that almost exclusively effected old people (like me) and few younger people with existing medical conditions. Huh? Thomas Jefferson is definitely spinning around in his grave right now over this absolute travesty.

    When the oncoming financial maelstrom caused by this shutdown hits the Third Word with full force (which it definitely will) the victims will include the starving poor including children whose deaths will absolutely dwarf those that would have been suffered in the First World countries if the virus hadn’t received such special attention. India is already starting to come apart right now. Much of Sub Saharan Africa will follow.

    Want a more nearby example? What happens when all those financial remittances sent by those now out of work Hispanics working in the US back home to their families in Mexico and the rest of Central America ,that essentially keep these countries afloat, cease to arrive (which has been happening right now). These countries (probably not including Panama) absolutely rely on these remittances to survive and will collapse without these funds. Is Trump going o bail out these countries, Not likely.

    By the way, I am seventy six years old and because of my medical condition I am definitely a member of the most vulnerable group. This has not stopped my from going out on one of my motorcycles for “nonessential trips”all the time this manipulated fiasco has been going on.

    I think I will jump on one right now just to irritate all of the more devoted mask wearers.

    Why am I so responsible?

    Simple answer. Because there are worse things than the flu.

  1128. KA says:
    @AnonFromTN

    That is true now .

    But- until 1970 America has experimented in its white and colored “trashes” ,and European white “trash “ using air conditioner , subway , and water system amd food .
    It had used Anthrax on its own peopel to shepherd the trash to certain cliff ‘s edge .

    It has ignored its own warnings .

    Now it blames China for not warning
    But it is not heeding the warning of its own experts and it has not been for a while .

    Tomorrow US and U.K. would blame China for not warning about climate change , I guess , if that suits the agenda of the empty suits that hang in and around DC and Fox News .

  1129. d dan says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “These labs are in various third-rate countries for a reason…”

    But, but, but didn’t the Australians just parroted, ok, asked for an “independent and transparent” investigation into the origin of Covid-19? Surely, they mean the “investigators” would be allowed full access to all those labs (including Fort Detrick, of course), as well as the full records of CDC, the “vaping” deaths, the unusual high “flu” infection, etc, right?

    And our very smart Australian friends also clearly understand that if they regularly patronize a hot-dog stand, whose owner suddenly decide to sue and investigate them, then they are NOT allowed to stop buying the hot-dog from the stall. That would be called “economic coercion” or “political interference”.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1130. utu says:
    @meena

    Bioweapon disinfo propaganda, Soviets, Chinese, Americans and Ken Alibek or Colonel Kanatzhan “Kanat” Alibekov

    Ken Alibek on SARS 2003
    https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/naturalcausesars.html
    A military expert who disagrees is Dr. Ken Alibek, a former top Soviet germ warfare official now at George Mason University. In his book “Biohazard” (Random House, 1999), Dr. Alibek said China had developed biological weapons and had once suffered an accident at a secret germ plant, setting off two epidemics.

    SARS, Dr. Alibek said in an interview, might have originated from a similar accident. “It’s a very unusual outbreak,” Dr. Alibek said. “It’s hard to say whether it’s deliberate or natural.” He added that he knew of no Chinese germ-weapons plants in Guangdong.
    _______________
    Ken Alibek on Covid-19. Jan 30
    https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/pandemic-coronavirus-sars-ken-alibek

    “If we knew about this and scientists actually identified the virus, they knew it was transmissible,” Alibek explained. “They heard first cases of death some time at the end of December.”

    “And, you know, by the time when the information came out, it was really too late,” Alibek recalled. “The virus was everywhere.”

    “It’s always the case,” Alibek said. “Of course, we are not reaching the peak of this epidemic. Of course, it will be expanding.
    _______________
    Wuhan-Sverdlovsk Parallels
    https://japan-forward.com/chinas-sverdlovsk-is-a-wakeup-call-to-japan-and-the-world/
    _______________
    http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/kincaid/200316
    The Soviet campaign was designed to distract attention from its own biological weapons program. Ken Alibek, deputy chief of the main Soviet biological weapons laboratory, disclosed in his book Biohazard that the Soviets had explored AIDS as a weapon but concluded it was too unstable for use. However, he said they did add smallpox to their arsenal. The Soviets tried to cover up a biological weapons disaster at their own Army biological research facility at Sverdlovsk, blaming the deaths on tainted meat.
    _______________
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/forget-coronavirus-sec-did-russia-cover-anthrax-outbreak-135507
    The Soviet press maintained that this just showed how Washington was ready to use any tragedy afflicting the Soviet people to its political advantage. Some U.S. scientists, such as renowned Harvard researcher Matthew Meselson, were also inclined to believe the Soviet explanation. In 1981, the United States had alleged that Communist forces in Asia made use of “Yellow Rain” mycotoxins in Asia—allegations that were widely discredited. When, in 1988, Soviet scientist Pyotr Burgasov flew to the United States and presented autopsy records and photos from the victims of the Sverdlovsk outbreak, many Western scientists were finally persuaded that the incident merely reflected an embarrassing slip-up of the Soviet medical system.

    • Troll: FB
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @meena
  1131. Jiminy says:

    Very soon the US may have to gain control of all investigative scientific testing as with every result they seem to be getting further into the mire.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1132. annamaria says:
    @Jean-Marie L.

    It is hard not to agree with some commenters who believe that highly-intelligent Charles Lieber was not ‘politically-correct’ enough in assessing the ongoing epidemics.

  1133. 450.org says:
    @meena

    Pompeo should allow UN or WHO to investigate US’s bioweapons program in germ labs scattered all over the world.

    I agree. The Armageddonist should also allow the UN and the WHO to investigate his colon for undigested meat. I bet they’ll find at least 25 pounds of it in there if not more. He’s a big boy who likes his baby back ribs.

  1134. Well, it turns out that the Americans did do some sort of GOF experiments, in which the Chinese scientists played a minor role, judging by the authorship of the paper:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26552008

    Here is the short version from Wikipedia:

    SHC014-CoV is a SARS-like coronavirus (SL-COV) which infects horseshoe bats (f. Rhinolophidae), first discovered in China in 2013.

    From April 2011 to September 2012, 117 anal swabs and fecal samples of bats were collected from a Rhinolophus sinicus bat colony in Kunming County (Yunnan Province in south-western China). 27 out of 117 samples (23%) contained seven different isolates of a SARS-like coronaviruses, among which were two previously unknown, called RsSHC014 and Rs3367.

    In 2015, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the Wuhan Institute of Virology conducted research showing the virus could be made to infect the human HeLa cell line, through the use of reverse genetics to create a chimeric virus consisting of a surface protein of SHC014 and the backbone of a SARS virus. The SL-SHC014-MA15 version of the virus, primarily engineered to infect mice, has been shown to differ 7% (over 5,000 nucleotides) from SARS-CoV-2, the cause of a human pandemic in 2019–2020.

    Here is a long piece written by a Chinese scientist named Peter K. Law, which mentioned that some sort of accidental leak from Fort Detrick caused the death of 20,000 people:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340786428_COVID-19_Pandemic_Its_Origin_Implications_and_Treatments

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  1135. Art says:

    Go to Rence.comhttps://rense.com/

    Scroll down a little to the Russian general. What he is saying about CV is amazing.

    Is any of it true?

    Hmm?

    Here it is on Youtube

  1136. annamaria says:
    @Seraphim

    And look at the highly coordinated efforts of the zionized US, zionized UK, and zionized Australia to destroy Australian citizen Assange who was arrested on trumped-up charges.

    The Australian/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council, the Conservative (and Liberal) Friends of Israel in the UK, and the ghastly AIPAC in the US came together to punish the journalist for exposing the casual sadism characteristic for the still ongoing Wars for Israel. The Adelsons, Wexler, Spielberg, Polak, and other Epsteins would literally kill anyone standing upright against the pernicious zionist power.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  1137. @Wizard of Oz

    A formatting screwup. The first line is mine, everything after the colon is my Belgian friend’s.

  1138. @Wizard of Oz

    the truth of savagery by Red Guards attacking the old at Mao’s instigation?

    Which particular ‘truth’ is that, and whose?

    Can you provide a first-hand account of these attacks and a source? They’re news to me.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Alden
  1139. Popeye says:
    @Jeremygg5

    Just a comment on reliability of Chinese data. First question…any data from China on the number dead from the late 1960s Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution? Or the number of Tibetans killed or jailed in China’s liberation of Tibet from feudal reactionaries? Or the number of Chinese dead from the Great Famine in late 1950s in conjunction with Mao’s Great Leap Forward? Or number of Chinese prisoners and dissidents killed in organ harvesting? At least Khrushchev placed a fairly reasonable estimate of arbitrary deaths under Stalin’s repression, with the book Let History Judge by Medvedev firming up the death toll some years later. But the Chinese govt has made no effort to quantify the deaths from its killing, repression and artificial famine.

  1140. @d dan

    I don’t think Australian “leadership” would want to know the truth, but who knows. Australia is in a very uncomfortable position right now: politically it is a puppet of the US, economically it becomes more and more a Chinese colony. As the US tries to blame it’s failures on China, one wonders how the chips would fall.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1141. @utu

    Any more desinformation State Department paid you for spreading? Don’t be shy, spill it all, increase you pay.

    • Agree: FB
  1142. @Jiminy

    That won’t happen, the world is big. Many countries refuse to be imperial whores. So, lying propaganda is the only way to go for Washington politburo.

  1143. meena says:
    @utu

    Blaming China is nothin but diversionary . There are more than one motive to blame China . I don’t have to rehash the motives .

    But if US-UK is trying to tell the world that this deaths in London and NY would not have happened if and only if China supplied us with a picture of the reality back in Dec and January ,then someone would ask those bastards why US is not listening to the advices of the experts from within the country and why it is not looking into the pictures of the future that are being portrayed by these experts .

    This Abulek needs to think the problem from a different angle and not from the lines he is thinking
    China might have .China might have accidentally released . That is their business . It has warned WHO and other countries pretty early in the evolving pandemic .

    USA and Israel have done worst regarding biowarfare and security .

    • Agree: thetruth
    • Replies: @utu
  1144. thetruth says:

    Coronavirus outbreak in France did not come directly from China, gene-tracing scientists say
    Researchers conclude that the virus was circulating undetected in France in February
    Stephen Chen in Beijing
    Published: 10:15pm, 28 Apr, 2020
    Updated: 11:30pm, 29 Apr, 2020
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3081959/coronavirus-outbreak-france-did-not-come-directly-china-gene

    [MORE]

    Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: APResearchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
    Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy. Photo: AP
    The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.

    Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.

    “The French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade … we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February,” said researchers led by Dr Sylvie van der Werf and Etienne Simon-Loriere in a non-peer reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org last week.

    The Covid-19 pandemic has infected more than 128,000 people in France and caused more than 23,000 deaths.

    France detected the virus in late January, before any other country in Europe. A few patients with a travel history that included China’s Hubei province were sampled on January 24 and tested positive.

    The French government took quick and decisive measures to trace contacts of the infected people and shut down the chance of further infection.

    However, these strains were not found in patients tested after the initial imported cases, suggesting “the quarantine imposed on the initial Covid-19 cases in France appears to have prevented local transmission”, the researchers said.

    The Pasteur institute collected samples from more than 90 other patients across France and found the strains all came from one genetic line. Strains following this unique path of evolution had so far only been detected in Europe and the Americas.

    The earliest sample in the French clade was collected on February 19 from a patient who had no history of travel and no known contact with returned travellers.

    Several patients had recently travelled to other European countries, the United Arab Emirates, Madagascar and Egypt but there was no direct evidence that they contracted the disease in these destinations.
    To the researchers’ surprise, some of the later strains collected were genetically older – or closer to the ancestral root – than the first sample in this clade.

    A possible explanation, according to the authors, was that local transmission had been occurring in France for some time without being detected by health authorities.

    The French government may have missed detecting the transmission. According to the researchers, a large proportion of those patients might have had mild symptoms or none at all.

    The researchers also found that three sequences later sampled in Algeria were closely related to those in France, suggesting that travellers from France might have introduced the virus to the African country and caused an outbreak.

    Benjamin Neuman, professor and chair of biological sciences with the Texas A&M University-Texarkana, said the French strains might have come from Belgium, where some sequences most closely related to the original strain from China were clustered.

    “Since the earliest European strains of [the coronavirus] Sars-CoV-2 seem to be associated with Belgium, the idea that the virus spread from Belgium to both Italy and France at around the same time seems plausible, as this paper contends,” he said.

    France is the latest in a growing number of countries and areas where no direct link between China and local outbreaks could be established.

    The dominant strains in Russia and Australia, for instance, came from Europe and the United States, respectively, according to some studies.

    These findings have drawn fire from some politicians who have tried to deflect domestic anger over their handling of the crisis by blaming China.
    US President Donald Trump lashed out on social media after two separate teams in the US found the strains devastating New York came from Europe

    “So now the Fake News @nytimes is tracing the CoronaVirus origins back to Europe, NOT China. This is a first!” he tweeted on April 11, referring to a story about the studies in the The New York Times’ science section.

    The findings also highlight the difficulties governments face in tracing the source of coronavirus outbreaks.

    Less-developed countries may never know where their strains came from due to inadequate testing and sequencing capability.
    India, for example, has released the genetic sequence of fewer than 40 samples to the public so far, a small number considering its huge population.

    Most of the strains sampled in 35 early cases came from clades that could be traced to Italy and Iran, with only a few from China, according to a recent study. But researchers were not able to track further because of the lack of data.

    A scientist on the study, Dr Mukesh Thakur, of the Zoological Survey of India, said it was too early to rule out China as the source of outbreaks in India because the number of samples at hand was limited.

    A 20-year-old student studying medicine in Wuhan, for instance, might have come in contact with many people on the way home before she was tested positive on January 30.

    Thakur said local media reported that the Indian government quarantined 3,500 people possibly linked to three positive cases imported from Wuhan.

    “God knows how many of them tested positive in the subsequent stages,” Thakur said in an email response to the Post’s queries on Tuesday.

    Some prominent scientists, including Francis Collins, director of the US National Institutes of Health, said the virus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak.

    The virus had thus adapted well to the human body. Some genes regulating its binding to host cells were similar, or even identical, to those found in some other highly infectious human viruses, such as HIV and Ebola.

    According to some estimates, the ancestor of Sars-CoV-2, the virus causing Covid-19, might have left bats between 50 and 70 years ago. A recent study by a team of geneticists in Oxford University estimated the first outbreak of the current pandemic could have occurred as early as September last year.

    They found that the dominant strains circulating in China and Asia were genetically younger than some popular strains in the United States.

    • Replies: @utu
  1145. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Seraphim

    But not only the zionist entity. According to the leader of that country’s political opposition party in the 2004 Australian Federal Election, after Australian MPs are elected to their parliament, they’re taken on a 3 week ‘tour’ of the USA – which opposition party members refer to as [quote] “the CIA tour”. Along with the 5 US bases on their soil, euphemistically called “joint facilities”, how pathetic of a country that has the unmitigated gall to call itself a free and independent sovereign nation!!!

  1146. Seraphim says:
    @Popeye

    Popeye, you go slow on your spinach. It is not good only for your muscles, but it is a brain superfood. It offers the brain protection by fending off things like dementia in older adults.

  1147. @Godfree Roberts

    One of them, Peter Daszak, disease ecologist and the president of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit that works globally to identify and study our vulnerabilities to emerging infectious disease…

    Details about his and Fauci’s role in the experimentation that was going on at the WuhanInstitute of Virology lab, including the controversial gain of function research is becoming highly publicized. Now that the information has emerged in a mass circulation publication like Newsweek, millions of people will eventually take note.

    DR. FAUCI BACKED CONTROVERSIAL WUHAN LAB WITH MILLIONS OF U.S. DOLLARS FOR RISKY CORONAVIRUS RESEARCH

    BY FRED GUTERL ON 4/28/20 AT 2:57 PM EDT

    https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

    Excerpt:

    The NIH research consisted of two parts. The first part began in 2014 and involved surveillance of bat coronaviruses, and had a budget of $3.7 million. The program funded Shi Zheng-Li, a virologist at the Wuhan lab, and other researchers to investigate and catalogue bat coronaviruses in the wild. This part of the project was completed in 2019.
    .
    A second phase of the project, beginning that year, included additional surveillance work but also gain-of-function research for the purpose of understanding how bat coronaviruses could mutate to attack humans. The project was run by EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit research group, under the direction of President Peter Daszak, an expert on disease ecology. NIH canceled the project just this past Friday, April 24th, Politico reported. Daszak did not immediately respond to Newsweek requests for comment.
    .
    The project proposal states: “We will use S protein sequence data, infectious clone technology, in vitro and in vivo infection experiments and analysis of receptor binding to test the hypothesis that % divergence thresholds in S protein sequences predict spillover potential.”
    .
    In layman’s terms, “spillover potential” refers to the ability of a virus to jump from animals to humans, which requires that the virus be able to attach to receptors in the cells of humans. SARS-CoV-2, for instance, is adept at binding to the ACE2 receptor in human lungs and other organs.
    .
    According to Richard Ebright, an infectious disease expert at Rutgers University, the project description refers to experiments that would enhance the ability of bat coronavirus to infect human cells and laboratory animals using techniques of genetic engineering. In the wake of the pandemic, that is a noteworthy detail.
    .
    Ebright, along with many other scientists, has been a vocal opponent of gain-of-function research because of the risk it presents of creating a pandemic through accidental release from a lab.

    Nobody posting here, as far as I am aware, ever presented any evidence that this very specific type of research was also being conducted in the United States, or anywhere else. So obviously, the focus must remain on Wuhan as the source of the current corona virus outbreak.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1148. utu says:
    @thetruth

    Interesting. You quote Stephen Chen’s article at South China Morning Post. Here is the pdf of the French article.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.059576v1.full.pdf

    I got an impression that Stephen Chen reads more into the article than what can be found there. For example his claim that “France is the latest in a growing number of countries and areas where no direct link between China and local outbreaks could be established.” is not supported by the article. Instead you can find this “The first European cases sampled on January 24, 2020 (IDF0372 and IDF0373 from Île-de-France, described in (Lescure, Bouadma et al. 2020) were direct imports from Hubei, China”.

    • Replies: @thetruth
  1149. Lagertha says:

    it is over for rich people: Wall St., CEO’s of Fortune 500, SV moguls, Venture Capitalists. The young people are on to you, and hate you. There is no wall or tunnel (so much easier to killshot) to hide in…you are over. Give up now, and, you and your kids can live; ignore the angry youth, and you have no control. It is not about money. Momey means nothing. You are horrible humans – admit it. You do not deserve any empathy, ever, ever, again.

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1150. utu says:
    @meena

    Obviously they will be blaming China. In their minds an opportunity for blaming China with quasi-plausible justifications is the only good thing that can come out of the whole Covid-19 pandemic. A global narrative casting China in a role of an irresponsible culprit or even a villain is being constructed and propagated.

  1151. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lagertha

    Gotta love Ron’s new friends. Talk about nosediving credibility.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
  1152. @Been_there_done_that

    The people making such suggestions have never even been to the lab. Those who have worked there say the idea is nonsense.

    These stories, written by non-scientists with no first-hand experience, are speculations intended to distract from the fact that at least one strain of Covid-19, and possibly two, predate by months its appearance, thousands of miles away, in China.

    • Replies: @Been_there_done_that
  1153. @Popeye

    Perhaps the reason nobody tried is that, beyond the millions who die every year in China of natural causes, nobody died?

    Or perhaps it’s embarrassment? Excess deaths in the late 50s famine were caused by America’s infamous grain embargo, which I remember incensed Australians when I was a boy. Not because Australians cared that the Chinese might be starving but because we had excess grain and wanted to get rid of it.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1154. thetruth says:
    @utu

    French coronavirus strain may be local and may not have come from China

    Issued on: 29/04/2020 – 12:38Modified: 29/04/2020 – 12:38

    http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200429-french-coronavirus-strain-may-be-local-and-may-not-have-come-from-china

    • Replies: @utu
  1155. Popeye says:
    @Popeye

    Well now two call me a troll. But please point out where I might have made a mistake . That would be helpful. Has the Glorious people’s republic of China given data on how many were arbitrarily tortured or killed in the cultural revolution? Has the PRC even acknowledged the involuntary organ harvesting? No problem in buying a nice clean liver for transplant in two weeks at $25 grand. If I’m wrong say so. But don’t just say Troll. Unless of course you are still stuck in 5th grade for 45 years..

    • Troll: Seraphim, FB, Godfree Roberts
  1156. Parfois1 says:

    (so nobody can close them, like Ft Detrick)

    I have been off the radar for a while, occasionally having a peek, as now, when I noticed the above – the well publicized fact that Fort Detrick had received a “cease and desist order” from CDC, not exactly close down order, although I have to specific information about the scope and ambit of the order (probably classified anyway) or whether it was complied with or not. The crucial point is that the order was allegedly given on public safety grounds and was made public.

    What I do know now is that such order was not necessary on safety grounds alone, or at all. The Health Emergencies Power Act (one of the large number of draconian laws enacted after 2001) provides for the executive unfettered power to do almost anything it deems necessary on policy grounds alone and beyond judicial scrutiny. All that was required was an internal letter or even a phone call from the HHS department or WH as an administrative act. So, the question is: why the publicity surrounding the “order to close down Fort Derrick”? Shut the gates after the horse bolted? Smoke-screen? Plausible deniability?

    • Replies: @idrankwhat
  1157. @anon

    Re: NY hospitals are NEVER brought to the brink by flu

    https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

    You may have made good points later on in the comment, but this emphatic assertion of the truth’s opposite stopped me right there.

  1158. utu says:
    @thetruth

    rfr.fr states that “the sixteen-page study […] was first reported by Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post” and then rfr.fr proceeds lifting sentences form SCMP article. For instance in rfr.fr this sentence

    “Genetic analysis of the samples revealed that the dominant types of viral strains in France belonged to a “clade” or group with a common ancestor that did not come from either China or Italy.”

    is taken from from SCMP

    “Researchers in France have carried out genetic analysis and found that the dominant types of the viral strains in the country did not come from China or Italy.”

    But one cannot make such an inference from what is said in the original paper.

    There is one important difference between rfr.fr and SCMP. rfr.fr states what you won’t find in SCMP

    “However, “current sampling clearly prevents reliable inference for the timing of introduction in France,” making it impossible to go one step further and conclude that the virus existed in France even before it was discovered in China.”

    and then reminds us of the political implications of such inference:

    “If this were to be established it would have huge implications, and may feed into the propaganda war between China and the US.”
    _______________

    What should be taken form it is that China seems to be getting better in propaganda war by being on top of things and being able to be the first to make a spin in its favor. China was the first to grab Pasteur Institute’s report and make its first public spin with a help of the very talented and capable Mr. Stephen Chen who is SCMP’s science and technology guy in Beijing. Please don’t tell me that because SCMP is Hong Kong based Mr. Stephen Cheng is not working for China.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1159. The military games you referred to took place in Wuhan in October 2019. The Chinese government held an exercise in Wuhan on 18 September 2019 – so earlier! – to check for the possible spread of a SARS-type of coronavirus. Why would they have done this before the World Military Games in October 2019 if this was an unexpected deliberate bioweapons attack on China by the USA during those military games, as you say?

    Suggest you read this analysis

    https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/our-leaders-fiddle-while-china-wages-war-on-us-and-takes-over-the-world/

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1160. Debz says:
    @anon

    I did, I would have to look and see if I saved the article. From memory there was more than one report.

  1161. monzui7 says:

    You infer the Americans are a bit simple in letting the virus go in China and not thinking it will come back to America, but I think you’re missing the point that that too was always intended. What more than a perfect way to take the steam out of the wildly overpriced stockmarkets, to shine the light on the madness of the Opposition, to use the Lockdown as cover for getting rid of the Competition, setting things up perfectly for a reopening and business starting again so the stockmarkets being thoroughly juiced will keep rising to new highs; China will have taken a major hit and been put back in their box a little, all with perfect timing for the Re-election. The real aim being to defeat certain hidden controllers who other controllers are sick of pulling all the strings. So the whole blame-it-on-China is a ruse for those now seeking control of the US to take over the reigns of control from those who have previously controlled it. How can Mr Trump stand up there and not be worried about catching the virus himself, he’s probably already been vaccinated against it. So the vaccine will magically appear when the time is right; or perhaps he was so excited about the Malaria drug because he’d been taking it himself on advice from those who developed Corvid-19? I think You Know Who (and I don’t mean the Russians) are really behind it all, as always, with certain Americans putting it in play to help themselves gain more control so as to set themselves up for the Aftertimes after the Reversal.

  1162. denk says:

    FUKUSA[ustralia] know what happened to
    Mh370 !

    US-based news portal, Aviation Week, has also accused Canberra of being unwilling to disclose whether its Jindalee Over-The-Horizon Radar (OTHR) system had tracked the flight.

    The portal claimed the super radar had an official range of 3,000 km and is reportedly able to reach further into the South China Sea. It claimed that the facility could even pick out the type of aircraft taking off from Changi International Airport in Singapore.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/missing-malaysian-plane-why-is-australia-silent-on-secret-radar-data-185404-2014-03-19

    • Replies: @Anon
  1163. @Godfree Roberts

    …speculations intended to distract from the fact that at least one strain of Covid-19, and possibly two, predate by months its appearance…

    Not everything is speculation, for instance the purpose of the specific research that was intended to be conducted there.

    Also, you stated as fact something that has not been proven but merely conjectured about with regard to a particular strain of the virus predating its appearance in Wuhan.

    If they were conscientious people, the proper response by the heads of the Wuhan Institute of Virology would have been to decline the contract because the nature of proposed work was potentially too dangerous, too risky, and too controversial to be conducted in a facility located in the midst of a with more than a ten million people. But they were surely more interested in the money than safety. This highlights the inconvenient topic of greed and love of money playing a key role in the modern Chinese psyche – not that they are the only ones with such a predilection.

    A Japanese publication, Nikkei, pointed out today that the laws in China were not yet even in place for them to have been considered a sufficiently reliable lab from that perspective to have accepted the research contract with the US government to conduct the risky research.

    NIKKEI ASIAN REVIEW – CHINA UP CLOSE
    China knew of lab safety concerns from last year
    Beijing had been preparing biosecurity law, but not fast enough

    KATSUJI NAKAZAWA, Nikkei senior staff writer – APRIL 30, 2020 04:07 JST

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/China-knew-of-lab-safety-concerns-from-last-year

    Excerpt:

    The carefully curated draft law is watertight, but the measures were not introduced in time for China to prevent the Wuhan outbreak. Instead, information was initially covered up and China’s first steps were delayed.
    .
    Among Gao’s eight points, ensuring biosecurity in laboratories is particularly eye-catching in light of Trump’s remarks.
    .
    In one episode that illustrates the importance China has attached to the establishment of these related laws, an exam held at Chinese high schools at the end of 2019 included a question about biotechnology.
    .
    The question introduced problems, including the lack of penalties for accidents involving biotechnology, and asked students what the correct sequence should be in establishing necessary laws.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1164. @Godfree Roberts

    Excess deaths in the late 50s famine were caused by America’s infamous grain embargo,

    There is nothing unique in this, it’s a recurring pattern. When the magnitude of the hunger in the USSR in 1932-33 became clear to Stalin, he attempted to buy grain. The US and other “defenders of human rights” flatly refused to sell it, even for gold. Famine in Bengal, where the number of deaths exceeded the number of victims of hunger in the USSR 8-10-fold, was ignored by the British. Self-proclaimed “democratic” governments were always like that, and still are.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @Malla
  1165. vot tak says:

    It looks like there is some evidence the virus was in france much earlier than thought and its introduction there cant be traced to China. New research:

    Covid-19 was already ‘silently circulating’ in France before virus arrived from China & Italy – study

    https://www.rt.com/news/487294-france-coronavirus-strain-italy-china/

    ” The outbreak of the coronavirus in France has little to do with cases imported from China or Italy, as another strain of the disease of unknown origin had already been infecting people in the country, research claims.

    The virologists at the Pasteur Institute in Paris have sequenced the genomes from samples taken from 97 French and three Algerian coronavirus patients between January 24 and March 24.

    What they found is that the dominant types of Covid-19 viral strains in France differed from those that arrived from China or Italy, and belonged to another group, or ‘clade.’

    The earliest sample in the French clade dated from February 19 and came from an infected person who hadn’t traveled abroad recently and had no contacts with possible carriers of the disease.”

    • Replies: @Anon
  1166. anon[693] • Disclaimer says:

    Opinion ‘Jews Control Chinese Labs That Created Coronavirus’: White Supremacists’ Dangerous New Conspiracy Theory
    Far right theories on a Jewish-Chinese COVID-19 cabal are breaking out of the infamously anti-Semitic dark web – with real-world consequences

    Flora Cassen Apr 30, 2020 5:42 PM

    Haaretz

    The problem with stupid white “anti semite” or any stupid “anti-semite “ is that they blame Zionists for wrong reasons ,they fall for cheap and follow path of least (intellectual ) resistance to spew stupidities but never read or analyze history ,connect, and decipher the language of the Jews .

    No Haaretz , Jews did not kill babies or insert virus in US Labs or Chinese labs nor they did they fly pilotless planes to WTC but they danced on ted debris of WTC,warned groups of people before and were caught with multiple passports and box cutters and they manned the Boston airport and they were the first to hammer on the leis :Saddam did it . They didn’t insert HIV or other viral particle in Wuhan lab but they have used it against t German and against Palestinian before the country was born . They have not shafted China this time but they did introduce Opium by force in the 19 century to Chinese Mainland on the back of British power

  1167. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The USSR kept exporting grain before (4 million metric tons) and during the famine (2 million metric tons).
    http://web.mit.edu/17.601/www/grain_exports.htm
    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Soviet-Grain-Exports_fig4_30523454

    “The US and other “defenders of human rights” flatly refused to sell it, even for gold. “ – A talking point form Soviet Pravda for Sovoks.

    Stalin, Grain Stocks and the Famine of 1932-1933 R.W. Davies, M.B. Tauger and S.G. Wheatcroft
    Slavic Review, Vol. 54, No. 3 (Autumn, 1995), pp. 642-657

    “Enlightenment had to await the opening of the Russian archives. The impact of the first revelations about grain stocks has been dramatic. On the basis of a preliminary, unpublished typescript by the eminent Russian historian V.P. Danilov, Robert Conquest has announced that the archives have revealed that in the famine year of 1932-1933 Stalin was holding immense grain stocks, the existence of which was previously completely unknown.”

    “The planners’ stocks available on 1 July 1933 certainly included enough grain to save the lives of many peasants.”

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @FB
    , @AnonFromTN
  1168. @Godfree Roberts

    I’ve read so many accounts with the ring of truth about them that I am sure someone who knows the history better and cares more than I do will produce the goods. John Derbyshire maybe though I doubt if he reads threads with your stuff in it.

  1169. @FB

    I meant would you care to elaborate on which of the authors books you are relying on and what he says about events which are not about improving life in rural villages. It is perhaps not surprising that villages to which the likes of Xi Jin Ping were sent benefited from the brainpower added.

  1170. @AnonFromTN

    No, the problem is just that Marise Payne is not quite bright enough to get it right. She could and should have (a) ensured general support would be forthcoming from other countries and (b) pitched the initiating of the inquiry as something that China, as the country where the virus seems to have originated, should be asked to organise.

    [MORE]
    No doubt the diplomatically unconventional, antitraditional response by the ambassador was prompted by understandable suspicion that Australia had been put up to it by the US. And I’m afraid that the clumsy brigade in Canberra just might have gone along with that. After all our Pentecostal PM, while doing a great job in his first ministerial roles and proving to be a shrewd political campaigner in the 2019 election may, like Payne, just not be a top flight intellect. Indeed I recall a former head of the Treasury complaining about Morrison but when I put it to him that he had done well in his previous portfolios but that now the Peter Principle applied he agreed.
    It should be said in fairness to Payne that she responded to the ambassador with perfectly good logic. Not too difficult because, obviously the good idea badly sold is still a good idea.

  1171. Anon[452] • Disclaimer says:
    @vot tak

    Would you care to provide a French source for this rather than a Russian propaganda one? The basic problem seems to be that Covid 19 – the new nasty creature – required some major unusual genetic changes after which there appear just to be minor variations created by normal mutation. The best bet seems to be the wet market for the big change.

    • Troll: vot tak
  1172. Alden says:

    Here’s an old Chinese proverb in the form of a story.

    A colt was born on a horse breeder’s farm. After a few months it was obvious this colt was just a perfect horse the result of generations of careful breeding.

    Everyone congratulated the farmer on his marvelous horse. The farmer replied. “ We’ll see”

    The farmer had only one son and heir. When the super stallion was 2 the son was training him fell off and broke his leg. The leg didn’t heal well. Son disabled and limped around with a cane.

    Everyone commiserated What bad luck, your only son a cripple. The farmer replied “ We’ll see.”

    Then another civil war came along. All the young men in the province werev drafted. The death toll was tremendous. Everyone congratulated the farmer. Your crippled son was spared the draft and death in the war.

    The farmer replied. “we’ll see.”

  1173. Herald says:
    @Mikhail

    Perhaps Mr Unz could tell us whether he still endorses that Clinton project.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  1174. @Wizard of Oz

    I was not talking about details. They are not even visible from half a world away from down under. I was talking about the big picture. When the Empire says jump, Aussie “leaders” only ask “how high”. Yet most lucrative Aussie exports go to China, and Australian economy would collapse w/o Chinese trade. It would be interesting to see Aussie “leaders” squirm when the disintegrating and ascending empires clash.

  1175. Alden says:
    @utu

    Liberals and Jews still believe the kulaks were destroying the crops for the evil purpose of starving the virtuous proles, bolsheviks and genocidal jews in the cities.

    Thanks, I didn’t know that.

  1176. FB says: • Website
    @utu

    Your so called information from Robert Conquest, who is completely discredited, proves that your so called rebuttal is laughable tripe…

    And that you are a pathetic gay troll…

    • Agree: vot tak
  1177. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The chief advertising man for the PRC posts another advertisement; he even defends what the Red Guards did. I bet Godfree even claims that the back yard steel furnaces produced steel instead of useless slag.

    • Troll: vot tak, Godfree Roberts
  1178. Anon[452] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    Haven’t you got your own Chinese junk sources? Your 2014 Indian one is low grade rubbish.

    Read this if it hasn’t occurred to you that the Australian government wouldn’t spend tens of millions in a search for an aircraft with little connection to Australia if it had an accurate radar fix on the plane.

    https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/2787629/ian-kirkwood-flying-into-dark-of-night/

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  1179. 450.org says:

    I had to look back at the title of this post to make sure I was commenting to the correct one. Silly me, I thought this post was about this virus potentially being biowarfare by America against China but the commentary, as of late to this post, doesn’t reflect that at all.

    Any way, this is ironic. Trump is pure irony and he evokes pure irony in his many detractors and his many supporters. Heretofore, his supporters, a not insubstantial number of commentators here, were all agog about this being a ploy by the New World Order to force a vaccine on the world. But now that Donnie Dumbass, their own personal Kim Jong-un American style, has indicated he is in charge of the new vaccine (even though at the same time he and Jared are telling the world the pandemic is over) that will be rolled out before the election, they’re all good with vaccines especially and bizarrely, the anti-vaxxers. Seriously, the orange Dildo in Chief could ask them to go jump off a cliff, and they would. He could ask them to walk into gas chambers he had constructed over a weekend using the DPA and illegal immigrant labor, and his braindead followers/supporters would walk in gleefully to the national anthem playing in the background. The last time I saw anything like this was Jonestown. This is the Jonestown Redux writ large on a national and global level.

    Do you really think there will be an election come November? I don’t. The American people will not be able to remove the Criminal in Chief from the White House via constitutional and or legal means and within a year it’s plausible he may pull a stunt like Erdogan pulled in Turkey by arresting and disappearing his critics and rivals across all institutions. Come to think of it, MBS did the same thing and Trump respects them for it and would like nothing better than to do the same thing here in America. Maybe this is his pretext. We’ll see.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/coronavirus-trump-says-he-is-in-charge-of-work-to-produce-a-vaccine.html

    President Donald Trump said Thursday that U.S. officials and scientists are working as quickly as possible to produce a coronavirus vaccine, and he asserted that he’s in charge of its development in “Operation Warp Speed.”

    “I hope we’re going to have a vaccine and we’re going to fast-track a vaccine like you’ve never seen before if we come with a vaccine. I think they probably will,” he told reporters during a White House meeting with New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy.

    “I’m not overpromising,” he added. “Whatever the maximum is, whatever you can humanly do, we’re going to do.”

    When asked by a reporter who is in charge of the vaccine operation, Trump said, “honestly, I am.”

    “I’m really in charge of it,” he said. “I think probably more than anything I’m in charge.”

    It will be called the Trump Vaccine because he must put his name on everything including every female’s labia and when you get it, you will be forced to receive a permanent Trump tattoo precisely where you got the vaccine shot to prove you got it and to mark you with the number of the beast, of course.

    I refuse to cooperate with any vaccination program Trump has his hands in. He will end up murdering hundreds of thousands if not millions to tens of millions worldwide. The Trump Holocaust will far exceed that perpetrated by the Nazis. Maybe that was always his secret goal. Deep down we know he has always been a Hitler admirer. A Stalin admirer as well. Name any despot, Trump admires them past, present or future. To him, it’s like looking in a mirror.

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Alden
  1180. @utu

    Very informative. Now tell me, what is the line of bought and paid for “historians” and imperial propaganda on the hunger in Bengal? Your response suggests that it advises the employees to avoid that topic at all costs. Am I right?

    • Replies: @utu
  1181. @AnonFromTN

    You obviously got a good scientific education in Russia but didn’t have time to get round to more nuanced reading of history than Russian indoctrination and propaganda would give you. You might consider this from a Guardian article by an Indian:

    “Food supplies to Bengal were reduced in the years preceding 1943 by natural disasters, outbreaks of infections in crops and the fall of Burma – now Myanmar – which was a major source of rice imports, into Japanese hands.

    “But the Nobel prize-winning economist Amartya Sen argued in 1981 that there should still have been enough supplies to feed the region, and that the mass deaths came about as a combination of wartime inflation, speculative buying and panic hoarding, which together pushed the price of food out of the reach of poor Bengalis.”

    True, Churchill did put winning the war first.

    • Replies: @FB
  1182. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @last straw

    Interestingly, US researcher Ralph Baric of UNC was intimately involved in Coronavirus “gain of function” studies and co-authored the paper describing how a lab-created chimeric coronavirus could infect human cells by the use of the same cleavage site that COVID-19 uses.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/

    Baric worked with Wuhan Institute’s Shi Zhengli in this research.

    Baric also is involved in Remdesivir research.

    This guy certainly is in the middle of all of this

  1183. FB says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Come on Blizz…

    Now you are going to try to whitewash the Imperial British starvation of Bengalis, just like the neo Nazis infesting this website attempt to deny the massive crimes of Hitler…

    Is that your plan…?

    Because I see you over there on the PCR thread soaking up the lunacy of the Shitler fanboys…

    Of course Britain dindu nuffin…just like Hitler dindu nuffin…

    You can’t have it both ways…

    India was a starving country until a few decades ago…when I was a kid my mom would remind me of the starving children of India whenever I was fussy…I remember in my first or second grade of school, there was a drive to raise money for those poor buggers…

    Each pupil would buy a little carton of rice…when I got home I asked my mom about that…the teacher had said that those poor folks in India only lived on a cup of rice a day…

    I figured, what’s so bad about that, since rice pudding was one of my favorite treats…LOL

    Mother explained to me that it was hardly a treat when it’s just plain boiled rice…which, she pointed out, I had never even eaten…nor would be likely to, were it ever served…

    Such is the childlike logic…which is rampant on this website…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1184. @AnonFromTN

    Just calling on your expertise again though you are maybe one row back from the front line of physicians.

    The following article raises the intriguing prospect of nitric oxide in nasal sprays and gargle being used to kill the virus before it gets to the lungs. But wouldn’t 70% Ethanol do the job just as well if sprays and gargle were the methods and media?

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/nobel-laureate-takes-aim-at-coronavirus-in-canada

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @The Scalpel
  1185. Alfred says:
    @Herald

    NATO destroyed the TV station of the Serbs. That is how keen they were on stopping a different narrative. 150 people were in the building at that time. At least 30 were killed.

    Serb TV station was legitimate target, says Blair

    SURVIVOR of NATO Bombing TV Station – Serbia 1999 – Speaks!

    • Thanks: Herald
  1186. vot tak says:
    @450.org

    Maybe they have a vaccine or treatment already for “the few that count”?

    Videos: VP Mike Pence Tours Mayo Clinic Without Mask Despite Institution’s Pandemic Policy

    https://sputniknews.com/viral/202004281079126216-videos-mike-pence-tours-mayo-clinic-without-mask-despite-institutions-pandemic-policy/

    “US Vice President Mike Pence ignored the Mayo Clinic’s masking policy during his Tuesday visit to the health institution in Rochester, Minnesota, to learn more about COVID-19 testing as part of his White House Coronavirus Task Force duties.

    ​Earlier this month, the academic medical center began requiring all people on campus to wear masks amid the coronavirus pandemic. In a tweet Tuesday, the Mayo Clinic said it had notified the vice president of its masking policy before he arrived at the institution, but that tweet was deleted shortly after being published.”

    While at the clinic pence met at least one patient there. The zio-media framed this as pence showing disrespect and callousness towards the hospital staff and patients. I’m thinking maybe it’s not only that, but that he has been assured he will not catch the disease or can easily be cured if he does get infected.

    • Replies: @Alden
  1187. Alden says:
    @vot tak

    If all visitors to Mayo Clinic are required to wear masks, why didn’t the Mayo Clinic person who arranged the visit inform the VP’s advance people of the mask rule?

    Sounds like a set up to me. Minnesota, communist since the first German socialist communist 48er peasants arrived before the civil war.

    Nowadays American left wingers and commies are just anti White racists and fervent BLM liberals.

    • Troll: FB
    • Replies: @vot tak
  1188. Alden says:
    @450.org

    The comments are all very the place. Every body posting his pet peeve and others responding. We need something to during this quarantine

  1189. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    More Sovok whataboutism: “And you are lynching Negroes”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

    Indians and Bengalis know all about the hunger and whom to blame. They want to know their history and they keep learning it. Sovoks on the other hand are in total denial so they blame everybody except for Stalin and their inhumane murderous Bolshevik system. Some of the Sovoks are just plain stupid who will never recover form the Stockholm syndrome they acquired in the USSR or as a form of psychological compensation for not too happy life while abroad and some Sovoks are just too connected to the system through their families who were the chief perpetrators as snitches and butchers from Checka, NKVD and KGB. In either case they are too cowardly to face the truth. So they will lie and lie till they die.

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1190. vot tak says:
    @Alden

    LOL. You guys will say anything, no matter how ludicrous or absurd, if you think it will help your zionazi-gay massas’

  1191. @utu

    So they will lie and lie till they die.

    Good description of imperial trolls.

    • LOL: Jazman
    • Troll: L.K
  1192. @Wizard of Oz

    Yes, I am not an MD, and I don’t know much about coronaviruses specifically. As they have lipid membrane (like bacterial and our cells), detergents (as in soap) are a good way to disable them. I have no doubt that 70% ethanol would kill them, but it would also kill our epithelial cells in the nose and throat, so I wouldn’t use that for nasal spray or gargle. Then again, some people drink 96% ethanol (never tried that, but tried 70% mescal in Mexico, and it went fine). Nitric oxide won’t hurt us, so in the worst-case scenario it simply won’t help. Some recommend high (much higher than physiological, like 0.5 M) salt solution for nasal spray or gargle. I am not sure it would damage the virus more than our cells, but generally viruses are more vulnerable than animals. All animals (humans included) have layers of dead cells on the surface (skin, hair), but our throats and the inside of the nose doesn’t. I’d recommend just wearing masks (and changing them safely, w/o touching the outside surface, every 2 h), staying 2 meters or more from other people, and washing hands with soap often.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @TT
  1193. @Parfois1

    The Detrick closure permits plausible deniability as accidental release, in case the virus origin is traced to Ft Detrick.

  1194. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @CaptainNemo

    Thats an opinion piece.

    “People are entitled to their own opinions – but they are not entitled to their own facts!”

    – attributed to Daniel Moynihan & James R. Schlesinger separately [emphasis mine]

  1195. anastasia says:

    Take a look at this, Mr. Unz and tell me how long it took them to make this labyrinth.
    https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000006O6EHUA0?tab=publications

  1196. @utu

    Yes, the paper itself does not draw any conclusions and, instead, promises updates as more data becomes available. Here it is:

    [MORE]

    Abstract Following the emergence of coronavirus disease (COVID-19) in Wuhan, China in December 2019, specific COVID-19 surveillance was launched in France on January 10, 2020. Two weeks later, the first three imported cases of COVID-19 into Europe were diagnosed in France. We sequenced 97 severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) genomes from samples collected between January 24 and March 24, 2020 from infected patients in France. Phylogenetic analysis identified several early independent SARS-CoV-2 introductions without local transmission, highlighting the efficacy of the measures taken to prevent virus spread from symptomatic cases. In parallel, our genomic data reveals the later predominant circulation of a major clade in many French regions, and implies local circulation of the virus in undocumented infections prior to the wave of COVID-19 cases. This study emphasizes the importance continuous and geographically broad genomic sequencing and calls for further efforts with inclusion of asymptomatic infections.

    Introduction Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was identified as the cause of an outbreak of severe respiratory infections in Wuhan, China in December 2019 (Zhu, Zhang et al. 2020). Although Chinese authorities implemented strict quarantine measures in Wuhan and surrounding areas, this emerging virus has rapidly spread across the globe, and the World Health Organization (WHO) declared a pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) on March 11, 2020. Strengthened surveillance of COVID-19 cases was implemented in France on January 10, 2020, with the objective of identifying imported cases early to prevent secondary transmission in the community, and the National Reference Center for Respiratory Viruses (NRC) hosted at Institut Pasteur identified the first cases in Europe. With the extension of the epidemic, identification of SARS-CoV-2 cases was shared with the NRC associated laboratory in Lyon and then extended to additional first line hospital laboratories, with the NRC at Institut Pasteur focusing on the Northern part of France, including the densely populated capital.

    Screening and sampling for SARS-CoV-2 was targeted towards patients who had symptoms (fever and/or respiratory problems) or had travel history to risk zones of infection. With the spread of the virus, it became clear that clinical characteristics of COVID-19 patients vary greatly (Guan, Ni et al. 2020, Onder, Rezza et al. 2020) with a proportion of asymptomatic infections or mild disease cases (Li, Pei et al. 2020). Viral genomics coupled with modern surveillance systems is transforming the way we respond to emerging infectious diseases (Gardy and Loman 2018, Ladner, Grubaugh et al. 2019). Realtime genomic epidemiology data has proven to be useful to reconstruct outbreaks dynamics: from virus identification to understanding the factors contributing towards global spread (Grubaugh, Ladner et al. 2019). Here, we sequenced SARS-CoV-2 genomes from clinical cases sampled since the beginning of the syndromic surveillance in France. We used the newly generated genomes to investigate the origins of SARS-CoV-2 lineages circulating in Northern France and better understand its spread.

    Discussion We generated complete SARS-CoV-2 genome sequences from nasopharyngeal or sputum samples addressed to the National Reference Center for Respiratory Viruses at the Institut Pasteur in Paris as part of the ongoing surveillance (Figure 1A). We combined the 97 SARSCoV- 2 genomes from France and 3 from Algeria generated here with 338 sequences published or freely available from the GISAID database, and performed a phylogenetic analysis focusing on the initial introductions and spread of the virus in France. Early introductions do not appear to have resulted in local transmission Our analysis indicates that the quarantine imposed on the initial COVID-19 cases in France appears to have prevented local transmission.

    The first European cases sampled on January 24, 2020 (IDF0372 and IDF0373 from Île-de-France, described in (Lescure, Bouadma et al. 2020) were direct imports from Hubei, China, and the genomes fall accordingly near the base of the tree, within clade V, according to GISAID nomenclature (Figure 2, Figure 3A). These identical genomes both harbor a V367F (G22661T) mutation in the receptor binding domain of the Spike, not observed in other genomes. Similarly, IDF0515 corresponds to a traveler from Hubei, China. This basal genome falls outside of the three major GISAID proposed clades V, G, and S (Figure 2, Figure 3A), but carries the G11083T mutation associated with putative lineage V1 (Figure 3A, Figure S2), suggesting convergent evolution or more likely a reversion of the Vclade defining G26144T change. Subsequent early cases in the West or East of France (B2334/B2340, clade V and GE1583, clade S), all with recent history of travel to Italy, add to the genomic diversity of viruses from Northern Italy, but also do not appear to have seeded local transmission with the current sampling (Figure 2).

    The current outbreak lineages All other sequences from Northern France fall in clade G (defined by a single non-synonymous mutation, D614G (A23403G) in the Spike, Figure 2), and this includes sequences captured during the steep increase of reported cases in many strongly affected regions (Figure 1). While a more thorough sampling will be needed to confirm this observation, it suggests that, unlike what is observed for many other European countries (Gudbjartsson, Helgason et al. 2020, Zehender, Lai et al. 2020), the French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade. This clade can be further classified into lineages, albeit supported again by only 1 to 3 substitutions (putatively named G1, G2, G3, G3a, G3b), and the diversity of the sequence from Northern France is spread out, with most regions represented in the different lineages.

    Several genomes correspond to patients with recent history of travel in Europe (GE3067, N1620, IDF2792), United Arab Emirates (IDF2936), Madagascar (HF1993) or Egypt (B1623, B2330), and might represent additional introductions of the same clade. On the other hand, in lineage G3b, three sequences sampled in Algeria are closely related to French sequences and likely represent exported cases in light of recent history of travel to France. The syndromic surveillance allowed to capture one of the earliest representatives of clade G (HF1463, sampled on February 19th) (Figure 2). Importantly, this sequence carries 2 additional mutations compared to the reconstructed ancestral sequence of this clade (Figure 3B). Other sequences sampled weeks later (IDF2849, GE1973) are more basal to the clade, highlighting the complexity and risk of inferences based on 1 or 2 nucleotide substitutions. Because of this, and the scarcity of early sequences in many countries in Europe, country and within-country level phylogeographic estimations for the origin of clade G are also unreliable with the current dataset. Crucially, while all early symptomatic suspected COVID-19 cases were addressed to the NRC for testing, this was no longer the case as the epidemic developed (Figure 1A). In addition, pauci or asymptomatic cases are scarcely represented here. As the earliest representative of clade G (HF1463) had no history of travel or contact with returning travelers, we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February, a scenario compatible with the large proportion of mild or asymptomatic diseases (Li, Pei et al. 2020), and observations in other European countries.

    bioRxiv preprint doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.04.24.059576. this version posted April 24, 2020. The copyright holder for this preprint (which was not certified by peer review) is the author/funder. It is made available under a CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 International license.

    • Replies: @utu
  1197. @Been_there_done_that

    Since construction began on the Wuhan lab I doubt that there was one day when foreign observers were absent. All of them that we know of say the idea is just silly. We can be sure that all of them that Western media can discover have been canvassed to support the allegations.

    On April 16, Peter Daszak, adisease ecologist and the president of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit that works globally to identify and study our vulnerabilities to emerging infectious disease, “I’ve been working with that [Wuhan] lab for 15 years. And the samples collected were collected by me and others in collaboration with our Chinese colleagues. They’re some of the best scientists in the world. There was no viral isolate in the lab. There was no cultured virus that’s anything related to SARS coronavirus 2. So it’s just not possible.” https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4/16/peter_daszak_coronavirus

  1198. @Wizard of Oz

    A good idea? Why is Trump’s demand for a ‘independent’ inquiry any better than bleach injections?

    China’s outbreak is by far the most thorough, real-time, independent investigation occurrence in epidemiological history. Do you recall anything comparable for America’s H1N1 outbreak ten years ago that took 300,000 lives?

    As early as Jan. 30, Dr Bruce Aylward, American head of the WHO International Mission said,

    “In the face of a previously unknown disease, China has taken one of the most ancient approaches for infectious disease control and rolled out probably the most ambitious, and I would say, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history. China took old-fashioned measures, like the national approach to hand-washing, the mask-wearing, the social distancing, the universal temperature monitoring. But then very quickly, as it started to evolve, the response started to change . . . So they refined the strategy as they moved forward, and this is an important aspect as we look to how we might use this going forward. WHO has been here from the start of this crisis, an epidemic, working every single day with the government of China… WHO was here from the beginning and never left. What’s different about this mission is it’s complementing with a lot of other external experts.

    .

    Half a dozen foreign experts gave similar first-hand testimony. Do you think that Ms Payne read any of them?

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  1199. Debz says:

    @Ron Unz

    I shared 2 of your articles yesterday on Facebook, this article and your one on China’s Rise, both were blocked by Facebook, as Spam, and going againsts community sta dards. I attempted to Private Message the links to articles, however FB blocked even in my PM. You should complain. I have disputed the ban, but I think you should approach them.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Biff
  1200. utu says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Stephen Chen form South China Morning Post gave a pro Chinese spin including false claims to this French article.

  1201. vot tak says:

    This article has a lot of very useful information about how China handled the virus.

    Xinhua Headlines: What makes a difference on COVID-19 death rate? Lessons beyond math

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-04/25/c_139005866.htm

    “- Why do death rates vary in different countries?

    – China’s population is more than four times that of the United States, its COVID-19 deaths was less than 10 percent of the U.S.

    – The U.S. death per 100,000 people was 15.27 on April 24, compared with 0.33 in China
    – China’s decisive measures since late January are the variants that matter”

  1202. @Debz

    Complaining to FB is futile. FB is controlled by the same kagal that controls Google, Twitter, Wiki, CIA, FBI, NYT, CNN, and many other things. The only thing an honest person can do is leave the FB, Twitter, and never visit websites of various liars.

    • Agree: Jazman, Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @debz
  1203. Poco says:
    @Popeye

    The Chinese oligarchs have discovered high speed trains and capitalism now. Don’t ask inconvenient questions about communist oligarchs who had no high speed trains or capitalism. The current capitalist oligarchs are busy showing us all how efficient communism is.

  1204. Seraphim says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    How ‘bright’ it is to accuse of ‘economic coercion’ people who don’t want to buy your stuff? Coercion means: “the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats”. You coerce people to buy your stuff (even when they don’t need it) or to sell you stuff that you need when they don’t need to sell you.

  1205. denk says:
    @Anon

    low grade Indian junk source

    Normally I’d agree.
    Indian cow dung stinks even worse than their [[[five liars]]] pardners B.S.
    Hence we’ve the [[[six liars]]] alliance.
    BUt its source was The aviation week, an authoritative voice in the industry.

    How about this, from the horse mouth…

    [MORE]

    Two incidents during my visits convinced me that there really was some magic in the Jindalee technology. They are worth relating here:
    In the control room I was looking over the shoulder of a young operator who
    obviously has immense regard for the system. He said “look at this” as an image appeared on the monitor “I can tell you that that is a Boeing 747 taking off from Changi Airport in Singapore but unfortunately I can’t tell you which airline owns it”.
    Singapore is 4100 km from Alice Springs as the crow flies!
    On another visit the operator told of an incident which happened over Papua New Guinea. The RAAF was aware of a test flight around the world of the US Air Force F-117 Nighthawk stealth attack aircraft 5
    . The idea was that the US Air Force would fly the aircraft roughly around the Equator just to prove that nobody could see it on radar. The operator told me that they picked up the aircraft over New Guinea and reported the sighting to the US Air Force. The Americans were flabbergasted but they knew that the reported location of the aircraft was exactly where the aircraft was

    https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/Jindalee.Nomination.V14.June%202016.pdf

  1206. @anon

    China pig farm jams drones dropping swine fever-laced products onto its sites, but also GPS
    One of China’s biggest animal feed producers said it had used a radio transmitter to combat crooks using drones to drop pork products contaminated with African swine fever on its pig farms, as part of a racket to profit from the health scare.

    In July, China’s agriculture ministry said criminal gangs were faking outbreaks of swine fever on farms and forcing farmers to sell their healthy pigs at sharply lower prices. Thursday, a state-backed news website, The Paper, reported that a pig farming unit of Beijing Dabeinong Technology Group Co. Ltd. had run foul of the regional aviation authority, as its transmitter had disrupted the GPS signal in the area.

    Answering questions from investors on an interactive platform run by the Shenzhen Stock Exchange, Dabeinong confirmed Friday that its pig farming unit in Heilongjiang province had unwittingly violated civil aviation rules.

    “Our unit in Heilongjiang province … to prevent external people from using drones to drop pork with African swine fever virus, violated regulations by using a drone control equipment set,” the company said. “We broke related radio regulations, although that was unintentional,” said Dabeinong, adding that it had surrendered the equipment to authorities and was willing to accept a penalty. The company has a herd of 14,000 sows at its three farms and one breeding farm in Heilongjiang. The farms in Heilongjiang were operating safely, Dabeinong said, and security would be stepped up.

    China, the world’s top producer and consumer of pork, has seen its pig herd shrink by 40 percent compared with a year ago, the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs said this week. Rising pork prices were a factor behind inflation’s acceleration to its fastest pace in almost eight years in November.

  1207. Jiminy says:

    Well it looks like sco- mo has declared what side of the fence he is on. Morrison, when asked about the virus in an early morning radio interview said , “thats obviously nonsense, I don’t think that anybody is in any fantasyland about where it started – it started in China……..it’s just a statement of fact.” So now that we are going by facts , he’s probably hoping that the US will be allowed to run an independent enquiry into all of it. And everybody needs to get on the first train out of fantasyland.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  1208. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Totally agree with that.

    This short doco that I first saw 9 years ago makes the link between FB, CIA, DARPA, etc.

    The names cross-check.

    It must be continually purged and reposted as the no. of views is lower every time I’ve looked at it over these years.

    Peace.

  1209. 450.org says:

    This f*ck is both certifiably insane and as corrupt a kleptocrat as any Russian oligarch. It’s the epitome of contradictory irony. This scumbag is one of the first governors to lift the SAH orders and order people back to work and yet he’s using the pandemic as an excuse to put lethal weapons on the roads.

    Is this a ploy by the insurance companies to raise premiums using the unprecedented uptick in accidents due to unprepared teens on the roadways? Ten years prior I would say that’s a wild conspiracy theory, but today? Today I would say it’s perfectly within the realm of possibilities.

    Trump is a kleptocrat and so, as it is above it is below. I can see no other reason for doing this considering this numbskulls stance related to the virus. This governor, as much as any governor, is a whore to the monopolists who own local, state and national politics regardless of ideology. Mix in the fact a record number of teens compared to years past are stoned out of their minds precisely because of the war on drugs. The war on drugs has made weed readily available to teens. It is being pushed on them because of the lack of regulation.

    What could go wrong? Untrained and unprepared teens getting out on the roads in droves stoned out of their minds. Driving these days with texting and all manner of distraction is already bad enough, and this fruitcake of a governor wants to add this to the mix.

    In six months to a year, insurance premiums will soar to make up for the shortfall from unemployment and those who lost their jobs not being able to afford car insurance. The insurance companies will deny as many claims as they can, even more so than they normally do, and they’ll raise premiums drastically to cover the loss in profit from lost premiums from the unemployed not having the cash or credit to pay their car insurance.

    It’s an insane desperate measure, but that is America today folks. Desperate and insane.

    I bet he extends it past May 13. So let me get this straight. A hair stylist and/or barber can be right up in your face cutting your hair, but a cop can’t be in the car with your teen to administer a driving test?

    This sad excuse for a man does this, but he can’t be bothered to set up a system of testing and contact tracing to contain the virus.

    This is leadership today in America which is to say, there is a crisis of leadership in America. America has squashed and thwarted any and all individuals who would make great leaders and instead promoted kiss up and kick down sycophants to man the sinking Titanic. Kemp is a great example of this. He is not a leader, he’s a suck-up sycophant who Trump through under the bus by the way as Trump ultimately does to EVERYONE and yet they get in line and take a number to serve him.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/us/georgia-drivers-license-road-test-trnd/index.html
    New Georgia drivers will not be required to take a road test in order to get their license.

    He could have just postponed the driver’s license process until things stabilize if they ever do, but no, he does this. Pathetic. Where are we? Seriously, where the f*ck are we? It feels as though I’ve died and have been reconstituted in a parallel universe resembling the prior with significant overlap but the other side of sane as in, it’s the previous reality gone mad.

    Gov. Brian Kemp announced in his most recent executive order that — provided they meet all other requirements — those holding instructional permits can qualify for their licenses without the “comprehensive on-the-road driving test.”

    That means teens can get their license when they turn 16 without getting in a car with a test administrator.

    The change is in effect until the expiration of the state’s Public Health State of Emergency, which Kemp has extended to May 13.

  1210. TT says:
    @meena

    If you have below answer, you will know why its impossible to inspect US bioweapon Labs in thousands.

    #Why did U.S. withdraw from 1972 Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC) in 2001?

    #Why did US threaten & prevent UNSC setting up a monitoring mechanism for the execution of the BTWC Convention? Is it standing in the way of developing biological weapon for the U.S.?

    Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) Compliance Protocol
    https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/biological-weapons-convention-bwc/

    #Why US need increase its BSL4 Lab from 2 to 12, BSL3 Labs increase by 900 after 911?
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/biosecurity-in-question-at-us-germ-labs/

    #Why Pentagon need to patent attenuated Coronavirus, and war funded 400 bioweapon Labs set up globally?
    https://patents.justia.com/patent/10130701

    # Why US researched and created a chimera COVID19 virus in University of North Carolina on 2015?

    [MORE]

    Documents show that research to create COVID 19 began in the United States in 2006 and culminated in a successful bio-weapon in 2015, with work done at the University of North Carolina and at Harvard and at the Food and Drug Administration’s lab in Arkansas. Their work was titled:
    “A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence”
    https://jamesfetzer.org/2020/04/gordon-duff-documentary-proof-university-of-north-carolina-generated-covid-19/

    The Pentagon Bio-weapons
    http://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/amp/

    The US Army regularly produces deadly viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons. Hundreds of thousands of unwitting people are systematically exposed to dangerous pathogens and other incurable diseases. Bio warfare scientists using diplomatic cover test man-made viruses at Pentagon bio laboratories in 25 countries across the world.

    These US bio-laboratories are funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) under a $ 2.1 billion military program– Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP), and are located in former Soviet Union countries such as Georgia and Ukraine, the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa.
    A toxic cocktail of germ warfare and big lies
    https://crescent.icit-digital.org/articles/us-biological-warfare

    https://sites.google.com/site/bioterrorbible/BIO-WEAPONS/RACE-SPECIFIC-BIO-WEAPONS

  1211. J says:

    There is a topical expression in yiddisch: “uberchochem“, for a person who fabricates elaborate super-complicated theories to explain something obvious and simple. Virus, bacteria, etc. out there are constantly evolving and re-combining, and sometimes appears a successful model that causes epidemies in humans and/or other mammals. In 430 BC Athens was winning the Peloponnesian War when a plague killed about half of its population and its leadership (the Spartans won). In the 15 th Century the Black Death plague killed a third of the European population. More revealing, Chinese imperial records that go back to two thousand years mention about a hundred important epidemies that ravaged different provinces of China. All that long before the establishment of biowarfare labs in Wuhan and in the USA (in fact, America had not been even discovered).

    In my opinion, the most probable explanation for the current bad flu is that it arised spontaneously, just as a few years ago SARS-1 , MERS, AIDS and the rinderpest and the virus that destroyed China’s meat industry, and the one the devastated Israel’s poultry farms, and so on. In math, the simplest and most elegant explanation is preferred, and it is so also for the current pandemic.

    • Agree: Alden, davidgmillsatty
    • Troll: vot tak
    • Replies: @Alden
  1212. TT says:
    @AnonFromTN

    This science paper explained why COVID19 was a US developed bioweapon since 2008, completed on 2015, how it was funded by US gov, and its potential treatment using convalescent serum therapy.

    Could you review this interesting paper and comment, thank you?

    COVID-19 Pandemic: Its Origin, Implications and Treatments
    By Peter K. Law
    DOI: 10.4236/ojrm.2020.92006

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340786428_COVID-19_Pandemic_Its_Origin_Implications_and_Treatments

    [MORE]

    Origin of COVID-19

    2019-nCoV genomics indicated that it was a recombinant virus of SARS-CoV and HIV origins. The two species of viruses had distinct and distance pedigrees, and because of the different space and time of their existence, their recombinant had never appeared in a natural setting [4].

    Therefore, 2019-nCoV could not be a product of nature, but rather a product of human genetic engineering.

    I hereby present below the direct, unequivocal evidence that 2019-nCoV is abiological warfare weapon originally produced in the USA, and that COVID-19 is a pre-meditated event designed for the USA to consolidate and to sustain po-litical and economic supremacy internationally.

    In 2008, a group of SARS-like CoVs (SL-CoVs) isolated from horseshoe bats had their N terminus of the spike protein (S) combined with a human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-based pseudovirus system, together with cell lines expressing the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) molecules of hu-man, civet, or horseshoe bat.Ren et al.reported, “in addition to full-length S of SL-CoV and SARS-CoV, a series of S chimeras was constructed by inserting different sequences of the SARS-CoV S into the SL-CoV S backbone.”

    This was a Guided Natural Selection, a process designed to select a lethal, transmissible virus by serially infecting cells of an animal model that had ACE2
    receptors similar to human.The chimeric S (spike) covering the receptor-binding
    domain (RBD) gained its ability to enter cells via human ACE2 receptor sites.

    The Chinese authors demonstrated that “after replacement of a small segment (aa 310 to 518) of Rp3-S by the cognate sequence of BJ01-S, the chimeric spike protein mimics the function of BJ01-S in regard to receptor usage in the HIV pseudovirus assay system.” That was sufficient to convert the SL-CoV S from non-ACE2 binding to human ACE2 binding, indicating that the SL-CoV S is largely compatible with SARS-CoV S protein both in structure and in function [32].

    That was a non-committal way of saying that SARS-CoV did not have a natural origin.Hou et al.(2010) [37] extended the above study to ACE2 molecules from seven additional bat species and tested their interactions with human SARS-CoV
    spike protein using both HIV-based pseudotype and live SARS-CoV infection assays. Live SARS-CoV infection was carried out with help from Gary Crameri and Jennifer Barr, under BioDefense Level 4 (BSL4) conditions at the Australian
    Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL) [38] [39].

    The results, as reported by a group of Chinese scientists funded by the Chinese government, showed that “ACE2 of Myotis daubentoni and Rhinolophus sinicus from Hubei province supported viral entry mediated by the SARS-CoV S protein, albeit with different efficiency in comparison to that of the human ACE2.”

    Further, “the alteration of several
    key residues either decreased or enhanced bat ACE2 receptor efficiency” [39].

    How effective was this genetically engineered construct that was capable of transmission cross-species from bat to human, and within the same species from
    human to human?

    Gain of function (GOF) by which the efficiency of viral spreading in human population was engineered and tested in an international
    collaborative study in 2015 as reported by Menachery et al.Using the SARS-CoVreverse genetics system [40], a chimeric virus was generated and characterized
    expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 [41] in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone.

    The University of North Carolina (UNC) collaborative
    study indicated that viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone could efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human ACE2, replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV.

    Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrated replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis [41].

    Evaluation of available
    SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize
    and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein.

    An infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus was synthetically re-derived and it
    demonstrated robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo.

    Could we ever go back to the peaceful time that we once had when we could breathe the air of freedom, and enjoy the beauties around us? People of all races,
    colors, religions, ages, sexes, sizes have suffered, and will continue to suffer until we stop funding, designing, manufacturing, facilitating and using biological
    warfare weapons such as 2019-nCoV, H1N1, SARS, H7N1, H7N9, MERS, HIV and Ebola.These were pre-meditated, cold blood murders.

    Long before the 2019 outbreak of COVD-19 in the USA, Coronavirus of Clades A, B, C, D, and E had already been in the records of American BSL3/BSL4 laboratories.

    The betacoronavirus of 2019-nCoV belongs to the C Clade.Despite all the bat species in Hubei, only the C Clade has been identified in China. There was no evidence of grand-parents (clade A), parents (clade B),
    children (clade D) or grand-children (clade E) of the 2019-CoV in China. This provided circumstantial evidence that COVID-19 in Wuhan might have derived from viruses overseas and not from China.

    It is extraordinary that Britain, as one of the key entry ports into Europe, was relatively spared by COVID-19 as compared to Italy, the first country to sign-up with the Belt Road.It is extraordinary that Britain left the EU at the fortnight of COVD-19 outbreak in Europe, and its Prime Minister announced that British should not fear and could go on living as usual because they were healthy as if “immunized”.

    This was similar to President Trump’s announcement to the American public at the onset of COVID-19 in the USA.In North America, citizens received free annual Flu shots.Last fall, all 60-year-olds and above were given an extra “shot” against pneumonia.

    Evolutionary AntidoteEvolutionary Antidote

    It is not only scientifically valid but also logical to deem convalescent serum therapy be the treatment of choice because the antiserum contains the antiviralantibodies IgG and IgG fragments that had won over the viral primary and mutated antigens to allow the patients to be rehabilitated [44] [45].

    We do not have any other immunotherapy or medicament with virus-specific antibodies that
    works on the same mechanism and principle.

    Beating bacterial or viral infections
    can give “acquired immunity” where the immune system recognizes the infectious agent the next time it is encountered.This is done by antibodies that label
    or neutralize the infectious agent.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1213. @TT

    Sorry, I have my job and cannot spare many weeks for this. To evaluate this paper sensibly, I’d have to actually compare available sequences myself (rather than rely on hearsay), as well as read the previous papers cited here, and likely the papers cited in those papers. That would be a huge endeavor, taking a month or two. Not being a virologist specializing in coronaviruses, I can still be deceived even after that.

    My general rule is essentially Occam’s razor: conspiracy theories are not necessary when human stupidity and ineptitude can explain the facts. In terms of general screwup of the response to the epidemic, the US is certainly in the top five, arguably #1 or #2. So far, this virus is speeding up the downfall of the Empire, rather than preventing it. In and of itself this does not mean that the Empire did not launch the whole thing: our elites are woefully degenerate and could have been stupid and short-sighted enough to do it. However, as a molecular biologist, I’d say that this virus is unlikely to be engineered because of technical difficulties, but that’s neither here nor there.

  1214. Nelson says:

    A great piece. A job well done!

  1215. Alden says:
    @J

    According to Godfrey’s Roberts, China has never had an epidemic that wasn’t maliciously introduced by some evil White enemies.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @J
  1216. Levtraro says:
    @FB

    2 There is no such thing as herd immunity for this, and any prospect of a vaccine may be difficult because of the transient nature of immunity which seems not to last [ie this virus has what might be called ‘double tap’ capability]…

    With regards to vaccines not having a good prospect because of poor immunity, it seems that might not be the case. This was published April 23 in Science:

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/covid-19-vaccine-protects-monkeys-new-coronavirus-chinese-biotech-reports

    In the preprint (posted on April 19), authors write:

    “These antibodies [SARS-CoV-2-specific neutralizing antibodies in mice, rats and non-human primates] potently neutralized 10 representative SARS-CoV-2 strains, indicative of a possible broader neutralizing ability against SARS-CoV-2 strains circulating worldwide.”

    They used virus strains obtained from patients from China, Italy, Switzerland, Spain, and the U.K.

  1217. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    What’s globaltimes, a newsletter put out by The Godfrey Roberts advertising agency?

    Who believes your advertising copy?

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  1218. @Godfree Roberts

    LOL

    Are you one of those prisoners being paid $.05/hr to shill the virtues of the Chinese Communist Party online?

    Because I can guarantee you, anyone Chinese citizen answering negatively on that ‘poll’ mysteriously disappears and isn’t heard from again.

    I hate to pull out Godwin’s Law, but the CCP really is the closest thing the modern world has to a Nazi regime. A heavily polluted techno-dystopic surveillance state that assigns you a score based on how obedient you are to the government, and makes your life a living hell if you’re one of the millions unlucky enough to be born a Uighur.

    • Disagree: Erebus
    • Troll: d dan, FB, Jazman
  1219. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    The problem with what you suggest is that an individual spray would only have effect for a few seconds. The article you mentioned implies some sort of carrier for the nitrous oxide that is more persistent. With pure nitrous or etoh, one would have to repeat the procedure with every few breaths. Then again, using 70% ethanol more or less continuously would seem to treat most infirmities, at least in the short-term!

  1220. FB says: • Website
    @Johnny Pranke

    Hey ‘Johnny Pranke’…

    THREE WHOLE COMMENTS this pen inmate has on UNZ…

    US troll farm industry is heavily prison labor…as is the call center industry…

    In fact US PRISON LABOR is a HUGE INDUSTRY…

  1221. God bless those innocent, altruistic Chinese Commies! Things will be so much better when they finally take over the world and displace those evil Americans!

    Mr. Unz continues to be proof that someone with an IQ of 160 can indeed be shit-all-stupid.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  1222. @Johnny Pranke

    Wumao don’t exist, alas. ‘Wumao’ is a name made up by folks who can’t face the truth about China.

    For years people like you have been saying that China uses paid commenters (wumao) and bots to sway public opinion, but a major academic study, “Chinese computational propaganda: automation, algorithms and the manipulation of information about Chinese politics on Twitter and Weibo” found no evidence of a China-sponsored program to manipulate users’ opinion. In fact, it found that most bots tweeting about China are anti-China. Here’s an excerpt:
    Findings are based on an analysis of 1.5 million comments on official political information posts on Weibo and 1.1 million posts using hashtags associated with China and Chinese politics on Twitter. In line with previous research, little evidence of automation was found on Weibo. In contrast, a large amount of automation was found on Twitter. However, contrary to expectations and previous news reports, no evidence was found of pro-Chinese-state automation on Twitter. Automation on Twitter was associated with anti-Chinese-state perspectives and published in simplified Mandarin, presumably aimed at diasporic Chinese and mainland users who ‘jump the wall’ to access blocked platforms. These users come to Twitter seeking more diverse information and an online public sphere but instead they find an information environment in which a small number of anti-Chinese-state voices are attempting to use automation to dominate discourse.

    Here’s the link:https://doi.org/10.1080/1369118X.2018.1476576

    • Thanks: vot tak
    • Replies: @FB
    , @Smith
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1223. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Blutarsky

    Mr. Unz continues to be proof that someone with an IQ of 160 can indeed be shit-all-stupid.

    The term is HIQI – high iq idiot.

    It’s when they’re so overwhelmed by the awesomeness coming out of their own brain that they forget to check if it actually makes any sense.

  1224. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, perhaps you will be covering some aspects of the anti China propaganda war…

    I believe the primary targets and victims of the misinformation are the public of the western world…us…

    Of course the mainstream media is a big part of this…but people don’t put much faith in those clearly compromised information sources anymore…

    I think increasingly people are trusting online sources more and being influenced more by the online medium…which is a vast and also a very wild place…

    Now I keep hearing about these troll farms and such…mostly from our own authority figures, who are accusing Russia and China of this…

    It’s OUR PROPAGANDA leaders who have made internet disinformation an issue…

    Knowing their record of lying about everything, and employing the simple and very reliable rule of thumb that whenever our dear leaders start accusing Russia and China of something, the chances are very high that they are in fact the ones doing that…

    It’s pretty obvious that these troll farms are getting more active all the time…right now there’s an astroturf campaign under way by certain big business interests to spread the flu ‘hoax’ idea…

    They are losing money and they want to force the end of the social measures…

    I think right now these efforts at trolling and astroturfing are quite clumsy and easily spotted…for instance the trolls that pop up out of nowhere on this website…and even this thread…

    But…they will get better at this game as time goes on…

    It’s quite well known that in the US, prison labor is widely used for call centers…they work cheap and don’t have to go farto get to work…LOL

    It’s known that troll farms also employ prison labor…but much less is known about this…

    I’m hoping your book will dig into this compost heap…would love to read the smelly details of how they are running these troll farms…

    There’s something very obnoxious and repulsive of these kinds of operations because they are IMPERSONATING ordinary people…

    At least when you see a TV commercial you know what’s what…but the core of these troll farm ops is deception…very bad…

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Erebus
  1225. Smith says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    They surely exist, EVERY big nation has its internet defending its public images on the internet, like the JIDF.

    This wumao phenomenon is very well observed, as evidence when danes face chink attacks by hosting the chink virus flag, or when the thai’s twitter was attacked by chinks because they say China not welcome.

    In fact, it’s arguable that wumao exists in Unz itself considering how a large swath of commenters argue on the same line (China greatest ever, lifted 800 millions out of poverty, China good because US bad, Vietnam bad, India bad, Japan bad, etc). You will start to notice this pattern as you argue further with them.

    • Troll: d dan, Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1226. Anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Blutarsky

    That’s the thing. China doesn’t want to “take over the world”. That’s projection on your part of your government. Does China want to get rich? Yes. Does it want to protect itself against US bullying? Yes. Does it want to make other countries wealthier too? I would dare say yes too. You and your government’s constant denigration of the next great enemy is tiring and dangerous to the whole world. When will the world tire of it?

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Seraphim
  1227. TT says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Thanks. I can understand the time limitation. Just would like to hear your opinion only.

    This appeared to be only published science paper that directly assert COVID as US developed bioweapon.

    But strangely global MSM seems completely silence on it, even in China, no one cited, review or comment over it. When the two Indians uploaded paper asserting COVID is man made with AIDS insertion, they stirred a big attention.

    His profile can be found below. A Hongkong borned Canadian, educated and worked in Canada, US and likely worked in China Wuhan now.

    Peter K Law, PhD
    Founder and Chairman
    Cell Therapy Institute,
    Huazhong University of Science and Technology,
    Wuhan, China
    E-mail: [email protected]
    https://sciforschenonline.org/journals/transplantation-research/peter-k-law.php

    He also published paper on serum treatment for COVID. Likely the force behind China Convalescent plasma/serum therapy trial for COVID-19.

    Open Journal of Regenerative Medicine
    Vol.09 No.01(2020), Article ID:99051,7 pages
    10.4236/ojrm.2020.91002 System Engineering of Emergent Serum Therapy to Combat COVID-19 and Other Pathogenic PandemicsPeter K. Law
    https://www.scirp.org/html/2-2390083_99051.htm

  1228. Seraphim says:
    @Jiminy

    He was “slamming “fantasyland” claims by billionaire Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest that COVID-19 could have come from Australia instead of China and urged him to stop freelancing in foreign affairs. The Prime Minister slapped down suggestions made the virus may have come from a Western country before it was discovered in Wuhan as “nonsense”, a claim that was recently made by the mining magnate. “I don’t think anybody is in any fantasyland about where it started, it started in China,’’ Mr Morrison told 2GB on Friday morning. It started in China. That is not a statement of accusation or criticism, it’s just a statement of fact.”
    It was a ‘creative’ misrepresentation, hinting at the ‘un-Australiannes’ of Forrest’s action, of what Forrest ever said:
    ““I’d be taking those positive steps before we say who’s at fault,” Mr Forrest told the West Australian’s podcast on April 2. “Because it just might be Australia, it just might be Britain, it just might be China.”
    “I’m the most Australian person I know,” he said on Thursday.
    @https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/scott-morrison-hits-out-at-suggestion-by-andrew-twiggy-forrest-covid19-could-have-originated-in-australia/news-story/e26320d291a1c6283e2dfe4d76a36c17

  1229. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    Yup. The really sad thing here is that they don’t see how obvious it is. I get that Ron’s trying to deep-six the site, but the hard leftists here acting like Carrie on prom night are just pathetic. Maybe Ron’s strategy is to drive out the Hasbara by giving the CCP trolls free reign, but something tells me that’s not gonna end well.

  1230. TT says:
    @Johnny Pranke

    Over years, I have come to reckon anyone quoting falungong hitman Jennifer Zeng 曾錚@ as authority source on China matter is a paid 5cents/rupees troll.

    Another CIA troll signature is those quoting anti-China Peter Kuo Wengui. They wrote tonnes of craps like falungong and you, even to back US assassination on Iran Gen Soleimani by creating story that Iran was the aggressor attacking Iraq during Saddam era…

    • Agree: FB, Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Jazman
  1231. Bronek says:

    We are so lucky to be able to read Ron Unz. What a remarkable fellow. Think of how many near had the chance to read his soul. May he live a hundred years.

  1232. Smith says:
    @Anon

    China wants to take over Asia, economically or military, then control the world’s supply chain and thus controlling the world, economically, like the US is doing now.

    And no, the idea that China wants to make everyone else around it stronger or wealthier is just plain insane, how you seen Chinese vassalship in Asia?

    Korea was a weak shithole that requires China troops to defend itself, MULTIPLE times.

    Dali? Destroyed by mongols.

    West Xia? First destroyed by mongols.

    Vietnam turns out well because while we pay tributes to China, we don’t allow chinks to occupy us, unlike in Korea.

    And no, the world will never tire of it because chinese actions are not what they say. They say they are peaceful, they are for “win-win” (obvious nonsense, they want you to buy their goods) but they are the 2nd most spender in military spending and not for building tanks and guns, but for building navy.

    What do you think a navy is for?

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  1233. Biff says:
    @Debz

    I shared 2 of your articles yesterday on Facebook, this article and your one on China’s Rise, both were blocked by Facebook, as Spam, and going againsts community sta dards. I attempted to Private Message the links to articles, however FB blocked even in my PM. You should complain. I have disputed the ban, but I think you should approach them.

    It’s long been established that Facebook censors/blocks real news. Fake news and propaganda from mainstream sources are the only material allowed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @debz
  1234. Anonymous[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Blutarsky

    I understand you were writing satirically but where do you get the figure of 160 from? I have seen the figure of 214 in the LA Times.

  1235. Seraphim says:
    @Anon

    Do the Chinese trumpet a doctrine like the ‘Manifest Destiny’ of an ‘Indispensable Nation’ living in the “City on the Hill’, beaconing charity and democracy all over the world aided by bombs?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Smith
  1236. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Biff

    Amusing. Facebook only prints US propaganda, so you’re upset when it refuses to run Chinese propaganda. Do you remember all the lunatics who broke down crying when Hillary lost? That’s what unz.com has turned into.

    • Replies: @Biff
  1237. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    Ca-chinga! Ca-chinga! That’s the sound of a cash register. As in, if I had a fucking dollar for every time a Team China retard answered a criticism of the CCP with “look how bad the US is”, I’d be a very rich man.

  1238. @AnonFromTN

    Does not that Peter Law paper have the slight smell of Sokal about it? Can you pick up any clues?

  1239. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    You mean the “Middle Kingdom, Center of the world, all around us are Barbarians and Savages”?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @denk
  1240. Jazman says:
    @TT

    Yesterday I got in my mail box Falungong terrorist newspaper The Epoch time level of propaganda is incredible

  1241. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Alden

    China has never had an epidemic that wasn’t maliciously introduced by some evil White enemies

    Alden, Godfree has never made that assertion, and you know that.

    This may come as a surprise to you but there is such a beast as Rules of Logic.

    In Logic, to take someone else’s argument to an extreme to make it easier to ridicule, is called reductio ad absurdum (Latin for ‘reduction to absurdity’).

    If you wish your contributions to this site to be taken seriously, we ask you to contribute as an adult – not as an adolescent.

    Cheers.

  1242. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    No, I mean the ‘Exceptional Nation’ born among the Barbarians and Savages, who delude itself that the Center of the World is the ‘White’… (fill the dots).

    • Replies: @Smith
  1243. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    Oh so, you mean China was the America before America exists, but instead of “Exceptional”, it is the “Center”?

    Lawdy. This is why they hate the mongols and manchu so much, how dare these barbarians conquer them and force them to cut their hair and wear skirts.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  1244. Jiminy says:

    I just hope that sco- mo realises that as this is Trumps last year, so it might be wise to listen to the great man himself, little Johnny when he said that we are Asian, and we live in Asia. The PMs fan base would be devastated if the iron ore shipments ceased, for example. That will no doubt eventually happen once China’s got it hands on African ore, but it won’t happen overnight. To be honest, I was surprised when the government allowed the Chinese navy vessels into our waters to supposedly help in the search for the lost airliner. They must have had a field day mapping the seabed all around our western coastline. But things like that should show China our level of independence and neutrality, or stupidity. Perhaps, as we now have a PM who has a young family, you could only hope that he looks towards his young girls future when making decisions. Although I didn’t like his veiled threat concerning the lifting of the lockdown on the condition of more people downloading the phone spy app.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @Alfred
  1245. Biff says:
    @Anonymous

    Amusing. Facebook only prints US propaganda, so you’re upset when it refuses to run Chinese propaganda. Do you remember all the lunatics who broke down crying when Hillary lost? That’s what unz.com has turned into.

    If it suits the monopolist’s agenda, Facebook will run Chinese propaganda.

    Unz has never ran for president; if he did, and if democracy was real, he would’ve won a long time ago. So there’s nothing to cry about.

  1246. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    China was a civilization 5000 years before the rejects of other civilizations founded the ‘City on the Hill’.

    • Replies: @Smith
  1247. @Smith

    If you visit countries like the Philippines or Indonesia run by syndicates of Fujian Province merchant family cartels, you’ll get an idea of how much they want to enrich the world.

  1248. Lagertha says:
    @Anonymous

    But who the heck would care about you? – no one. No one cares about your wretched body, foreign or not, if it is strewn about. Grow up – you have no idea what war looks like! I hate you and expect you to die at the first 5 mins of shelling.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1249. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    So the older it is, the more Center/Exceptional it is? Let’s all kowtow and give the 5000 year old chinks want.

    Hmm, where did I hear this before?

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @Seraphim
  1250. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Smith

    Smith given you claim to be Vietnamese what do you want the Americans to do? Based on the lie of the Gulf of Tonkin incident (when have they used a lie to invade & occupy a free & independent sovereign nation before? Do WMD’s ring a bell?) They killed between 2,000,000 – 3,000,000 of the Vietnamese people and then returned home to make movies about how sad it made their boys.

    Are you really hanging out for a return visit?

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Smith
  1251. @FB

    The current information war against China is paving the way for an alliance of countries against China. To isolate China economically and politically. At least that is what the USA hopes to achieve. USA’s wet dream right now is to unite EU and a few others together to choke China.

    That is another indication that this virus is bio warfare imo. Another perfect timing. Right before China’s 2025 plan succeeds. Also before China’s military becomes unstoppable 10 years from now.

    Feels eerily like USA is following the script by bannon. Feels like his ousting was just a red herring.

  1252. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:
    @Jiminy

    Trump will be re-elected later this year. The US economy was going gangbusters before SARS-CoV2 – you could see with your own eyes the cranes on construction sites across the skylines of the major-to-mid-ranking cities.

    For the next 6 months, he will ‘play the victim’ blaming China – and Americans who don’t fall in behind the party line that ‘China dunnit’ will be denounced as either ‘unAmerican’ or pacifists.

    And, aged 78 this year, its going to be pretty tough for the serial sex pest to convince the US electorate that he’s the man for the job.

    Not that it matters much – they’re two wings of the same party – the business party, as the USA is the most undemocratic country of all Western countries – the people not being able to make changes to policy through their voting system.

  1253. denk says:

    What do you get when you cross an murikkan with a Jp ?
    An uber sinophobe.

    Meet Adm Harry Harris, Washington’s new viceroy in Oz.
    The ex Pacom commander had a track record drenched in blood.
    Legend has it that,
    The [[[mofo]]] nearly started ww3 in 2016 !

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/keeping-an-eye-on-australia-admiral-harry-harris-goes-to-canberra/5628835

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1254. Anonymous[334] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lagertha

    OK, I get it now. Ron probably works for the US govt, not Chinese. By letting the most deranged, repellent leftists imaginable run rampant here, he’s doing a misdirection op, like the media does with black sociopaths vs. police brutality: either pick the US empire, or the CCP and some truly vile leftist hatchet men (or persons, I guess they’d say). Pretty easy to see what people will choose if those are the only options.

    • Replies: @Herald
  1255. aandrews says:

    ‘Once Upon a Virus’: China mocks U.S. coronavirus response in Lego-like animation
    by Reuters
    Saturday, 2 May 2020 10:02 GMT

    SHANGHAI, May 2 (Reuters) – China has published a short animation titled “Once Upon a Virus” mocking the U.S. response to the new coronavirus using Lego-like figures to represent the two countries.

    […]

    • LOL: denk, Patagonia Man
  1256. denk says:
    @Smith

    Smith [sic] the VN wog,

    You mean the “Middle Kingdom, Center of the world, all around us are Barbarians and Savages”?

    Wake the fuck up, this is the 21C.

    Here’s the new reality, from your
    murikkan daddy,

    Zbig,
    The Great Chessboard…

    the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together.

    All of us,
    The chinks, kooks, gooks, japs, are barbarians , to be divided and conquered.
    YOu, stupid gooks are their vassals, the trojans among us.

    • Replies: @aandrews
    , @aandrews
  1257. denk says:
    @Anon

    hasn’t occurred to you that the Australian government wouldn’t spend tens of millions in a search for an aircraft with little connection to Australia if it had an accurate radar fix on the plane

    Misdirection, old chap.
    Sending everybody in a wild goose chase, so that [[[CIA/MI6/ASIO]]]
    could do their mid air disappearance act undetected.

    • Replies: @TT
  1258. aandrews says:
    @denk

    The GRAND Chessboard! (Geez, these foreigners!)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard

    • Replies: @denk
  1259. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:

    One US researcher who has worked with scientists at that Wuhan lab explained to Business Insider why an accidental lab leak is extremely unlikely.

    Matthew Pottinger, Trump’s deputy national security adviser, asked intelligence agencies in January to look into the idea of a Wuhan lab leak, The New York Times reported. But CIA officers didn’t find any evidence.

    There’s a reason for that, according to Jonna Mazet, an epidemiologist at the University of California, Davis, who has worked with and trained WIV researchers in the past.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-coronavirus-did-not-leak-from-wuhan-lab-researcher-2020-4

    • Replies: @d dan
  1260. FB says: • Website
    @Patagonia Man

    The douchebag ‘Smith’ has nothing to do with Vietnam…

    He’s a US prison inmate employed by a troll farm operator like Atlantic Council…

    His main issue right now is his ongoing ‘conversion’ to homosexuality…courtesy of his cellmate ‘Bubba’…

    • Thanks: Patagonia Man
  1261. denk says:
    @aandrews

    The 911 FF was hatched in 1997..

    THE GRAND CHESSBOARD….

    These are the very first words in the book: “Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power.”- p. xiii. Eurasia is all of the territory east of Germany and Poland, stretching all the way through Russia and China to the Pacific Ocean. It includes the Middle East and most of the Indian subcontinent. The key to controlling Eurasia, says Brzezinski, is controlling the Central Asian Republics. And the key to controlling the Central Asian republics is Uzbekistan. Thus, it comes as no surprise that Uzbekistan was forcefully mentioned by President George W. Bush in his address to a joint session of Congress, just days after the attacks of September 11, as the very first place that the U.S. military would be deployed.

    https://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/zbig.html

  1262. aandrews says:
    @denk

    Ukraine: ZBIG’s Grand Chess Board & How The West Was Checkmated

    What becomes obvious from the author’s research is that the U.S. finally met up with a government, and a personality, Vladimir Putin, that had strengthened Russia. Another strengthening factor, ironically, ha[s] been the U.S.’ attempts to isolate Russia, one of the most unsuccessful foreign policies attempted by the U.S. Certainly the puppets of the EU/NATO have fallen into line, sort of, and U.S. anglo-allies Canada and Australia, but the majority of the world has been able to see the U.S. for what it is – a narcissistic, power hungry, and violent country.

    • Replies: @denk
  1263. denk says:

    The [[[five eyes]]] alliance…

    ALL YOUR SECRETS ARE BELONG TO US !

    EXHIBIT B

    Several years ago, some Australian members of parliament were given a security briefing where a video conference intercept of two of the most senior Malaysian military commanders was proudly shown to demonstrate Australia’s electronic surveillance abilities; proof of Australia’s access to some of the most sensitive military and diplomatic communications in the region. Speculation exists that Australia regularly intercepts Indonesian President Susilo Bambamg Yudhoyono’s and other high-ranking officials’ mobile phone conversations. Australia has been regularly reading Indonesian diplomatic traffic since the 1950s, which played an important role in helping the US undermine the Sukarno regime and install Suharto as president back in 1965.

    https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/australias-intelligence-community-behind-the-times-in-an-asian-century-4881/

  1264. d dan says:
    @Anon

    “Matthew Pottinger, Trump’s deputy national security adviser, asked intelligence agencies in January to look into the idea of a Wuhan lab leak, The New York Times reported. But CIA officers didn’t find any evidence.”

    Oh, come on. If the “intelligence” officers work hard enough, maybe they could find the Iraqi WMD weapons in Wuhan lab, right? This is called one-stone two-bird.

    Wait, I am confused. If that happens, which country should they invade: China or Iraq?

    Meanwhile,

    U.S. officials crafting retaliatory actions against China over coronavirus as President Trump fumes.

    “Senior U.S. officials are beginning to explore proposals for punishing or demanding financial compensation from China for its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, according to four senior administration officials with knowledge of internal planning.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/30/trump-china-coronavirus-retaliation/

  1265. thetruth says:

    Once Upon a Virus

  1266. thank you for this, ron. i’ve also been interested in russia’s experience with covid19. putin pointedly reported the american synovial fluid rape. lavorov’s spokesperson cited the number of biolabs nestled on her borders. the russian strain seems to target young men, very different from most other strains. putin has extended the lockdown & the country is taking it very seriously, not downplaying the impact in the least.

  1267. J says:
    @Alden

    Sorry for my being so stupid, but I dont get what you are trying to say. Anyway, there are already too many comments. Let’s leave it at that.

  1268. Precious says:

    Some governments took full advantage of the early warning and scientific information provided by China. Although nearby East Asian nations such as South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore had been at greatest risk and were among the first infected, their competent and energetic responses allowed them to almost completely suppress any major outbreak, and they have suffered minimal fatalities. But America and several European countries avoiding adopting these same early measures such as widespread testing, quarantine, and contact-tracing, and have paid a terrible price for their insouciance.

    This is a myth. Singapore did not lock down and quarantine until much later because they went for herd immunity like Sweden. South Korea is proof that widespread testing is not a panacea. Their early tests were faulty, which is why we had so much speculation on coronavirus re-infecting people and getting people sick a second time. South Korea was generating false negatives and false positives. South Korea continues to deal with new clusters of infected patients because they botched early testing and quarantines.

    Taiwan is doing great, but they have almost no cases. Or they are just ignoring the problem and going for herd immunity…it is hard to tell. Out of all your examples, you can only credit Japan, but even then they made everything voluntary and the Japanese people voluntarily kept their social distance without a lockdown.

    The USA and European nations couldn’t expect their people to volunteer for lockdowns early, so the response of most of the West is about the best we could have achieved. Developing a test that works correctly takes time, and a few weeks could have been shaved off the schedule if government incompetence hadn’t reared its ugly head, but incompetence goes with the territory.

    Trump’s ban of travel from China came in late January and he was under heavy criticism when he enacted it. Any attempt for Trump to enact it earlier or trumpet the threat of coronavirus earlier would have led to accusations that he was trying to distract from his impeachment and Senate trial. Yes, he could have tried to assume dictatorial powers and locked down the country in November and December…how would the Democrats have reacted?

    I can’t speak for the rest of the West, but in the USA the decisions made to respond to the coronavirus crisis were complicated by the attempts of Trump’s enemies to politicize it, just like they attempt to politicize everything against Trump.

  1269. Erebus says:
    @FB

    I believe the primary targets and victims of the misinformation are the public of the western world…us…

    Hi FB,
    I don’t think that the ordinary man in the street is the primary target. Orwell’s Inner Party didn’t care what the proles thought, saturating them with alcohol and porn, but went to extraordinary lengths to control what the Outer Party thought.

    So it is in the US today. The “Deep State” draws its power from those who’s income it controls directly.
    The primary targets are the Fed & State Govt bureaucrats and employees, academia, and the media. The Michigan Militias can think what they want, to be dealt with appropriately should they put their thoughts into action.

    You and I can think 2+2=4, but if you’re in the Outer Party 2+2=5 is the greater truth, and internalizing it is mandatory.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1270. Half Back says:

    See Peter Forester a geneticist from Cambridge UK say it’s still unknown where corona virus originated in video. Plus he shows to oldest type A then B,C .
    In the video he comes across as a straight shooter and in a easily explained manner.
    He was author of a paper PNAS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQQf2yoymu0&feature=youtu.be

  1271. Smith says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Huh? I don’t want americans want to do anything, I want the chinks to do something.

    The more arrogant they are, the better, the closer they are to war, the better.

    Chinks suck at wars and rely on the mongols or numbers to do conquering, but Vietnam has repelled chinks before and will do it again, the very moment chink ships lay at the bottom of the South East Asia sea, their ambition in the SEA is over.

    @ denk

    Do you want Asian unity? If you want Asian unity, tell your comrades to get out of the South East Asia sea, then we can talk about Asian unity.

    @ FB

    Wow, now I’m gay? Have you run out of argument, FB?

    But let’s use that argument, I thought you care about “minorities” worldwide, why don’t you care about gays, FB? Why do you cry about indian genocide, but not potential gay genocide? What about trannies? Don’t you care about these poor lil trannies genocide?

    • Replies: @denk
  1272. Anonymous[742] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    Excellent point regarding the distinction between proles and Outer Party in 1984, too many people miss it. What you miss though is that most of the posters here ARE Outer Party, albeit disaffected. Anyone who buys into the Corona fear-mongering is Parsons redux. Worse in fact because they strengthen Oceania by cheering on East Asia (that’s the modern twist on Orwell).

    BtM

  1273. @Precious

    You’re not paying attention. Trump uses his critics as ‘a cover’ for not doing this, or not doing that. The Elites (Wall St, Military-Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, Oil corporations, media outlets, and even the judiciary) who control the USA wanted the virus ‘to run’ to:
    – assist in controlling the population though fear;
    – accelerate the polarization of American society, i.e. libertarians vs conservatives; Democrats vs Republicans, War vs Anti-War coalitions, etc;
    – strengthen their argument for more totalitarian responses incl. mandatory vaccinations, digital certificates, i.e., either tattoos / implanted microchips & house arrests in the near future; and
    – use as a pretext for the Coming War on China. See John Pilger’s 2015 documentary: http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-coming-war-on-china

    All wars are bankers wars, remember? See US 5 Star Maj. Gen, Smedley Butler’s excellent short ‘War is a Racket’

    And if you read the Wolfowitz Doctrine that, after 9/11, was rolled into the Bush Doctrine, the USA’s foreign policy is all there in B&W.

    • Replies: @Precious
  1274. Precious says:
    @Patagonia Man

    You’re not paying attention.

    Wrong, not only am I paying attention, I am much smarter than you are.

    [MORE]

    Trump uses his critics as ‘a cover’ for not doing this, or not doing that. The Elites (Wall St, Military-Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, Oil corporations, media outlets, and even the judiciary) who control the USA wanted the virus ‘to run’ to:
    – blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
    – blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
    – blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
    – blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. See John Pilger’s 2015 documentary: …See US 5 Star Maj. Gen, Smedley Butler’s

    Because I have been paying attention, I know Trump is doing the exact opposite of “not doing this, or not doing that”.

    Thanks to Trump’s response to the coronavirus crisis, not only did he save the US hospital system from collapse (so far), he managed to reduce the death rate of Americans in March 2020 by 34,000 compared to the average in March for the previous four years, even with all the deaths from coronavirus. Trump is responsible for promoting the Trumpcure for coronavirus well before most in the medical establishment were willing to put their necks on the line, which saved even more Americans. This Trumpcure is the exact opposite of what the elites wanted to promote, as it is not a vaccine.

    And despite the fact that the Democrats and the media tried to goad Trump into declaring martial law, he did the exact opposite by respecting the constitutional restraints placed on him and putting up guidelines and having the governors of the states make the executive decisions. This is, once again, the exact opposite of what the elites want, and the fact that you can’t figure this out shows me that you are way too wrapped up in your blinders and have no interest in understanding what is going on.

    And if you read the Wolfowitz Doctrine that, after 9/11, was rolled into the Bush Doctrine, the USA’s foreign policy is all there in B&W.

    If you can’t figure out that Trump has changed foreign policy in the past four years, you don’t have a clue what is going on in foreign policy. Trump has avoided getting into new wars, and listened to local nations on how to best handle the wars the US is already mired in. The only wars Trump starts are trade wars, where no one gets shot.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1275. denk says:

    911 inside job.

    even as the poisonous smoke was still rising from the ruins of the World Trade Center in September 2001, Bush giddily declared that “through my tears, I see opportunity.”
    We now know exactly what he saw: the opportunity to launch the long-determined invasion of Iraq,

    and put boots on the ground in the five Stans, at Russia/China’s doorsteps.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/hideous-kinky-moral-nullity-as-normality-in-pentagon-plans/2354

  1276. denk says:
    @Smith

    China has no problem with its neighbors…except India., Jp, VN.
    Coincidentally ,in every case, we see the dark hand of uncle sham lurking behind .

    The problem with Asian unity lies in the three murikkan stooges, not China.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @JDTrader
  1277. denk says:
    @aandrews

    Ukraine: ZBIG’s Grand Chess Board & How The West Was Checkmated

    Apparently, you cant put a good man down for long ??

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/?showcomments#comment-3870281

  1278. debz says:
    @Biff

    Yes, I’ve noticed that Ron’s are the only 2 they have blocked me for, the other stuff I think they stop it from going through your friends timeline. Also they are blocking anyone who uses Chinese characters for their name. Ron’s written an article about the ban, shared on FB today from Aletho, I think is the website name. South Front is another website they block.

  1279. debz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I know. I am thinking of leaving too many dumbed down people stupid memes, that mob mentality too. Used to subscribe to emails and read my independent non lying news that way, so maybe back to that, less time wasted.

    Cheers

  1280. Smith says:
    @denk

    Except that is all China neighbors that have the power to resist, Myanmar, Laos, Bhutan and Mongolia (who have quite a beef with chinks too) are too weak and low on manpower. Korea has always remained a vassal. Russia is an on-easy alliance because Russia REQUIRES China.

    And about Uncle Schlomo, tell me, denk, was it Uncle Schlomo who told you to draw up the nine-dash-line and enforce it?

    Did Uncle Schlomo tell you to send your fishermen to harass other national’s fishermen in their EEZ?

    You are quick to blame Uncle Schlomo, but you never look at what are you doing yourself.

    And for that, no understanding is possible, because you are just using the Uncle Schlomo to excuse your land/sea grab.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Patagonia Man
  1281. denk says:
    @Smith

    Myanmar, Laos, Bhutan and Mongolia (who have quite a beef with chinks too) are too weak and low on manpower. Korea has always remained a vassal. Russia is an on-easy alliance because Russia REQUIRES China

    You’r a fucking joke mr Smith [sic]

    Korea has been a fukus vassal since ww2
    Laos is China’s best buddy in Asean.
    Bhutan has been longing for diplomatic relation with China if not for arm twisting from Delhi.
    Mongolia had beef with China, LOL
    it’r economic survival depends on China’s generosity, they have better not bite the hand that them, like VN,
    hehehhe

    • Replies: @Smith
  1282. Malla says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Famine in Bengal, where the number of deaths exceeded the number of victims of hunger in the USSR 8-10-fold, was ignored by the British.

    Bull Shit.

  1283. @Malla

    Famine in Bengal, where the number of deaths exceeded the number of victims of hunger in the USSR 8-10-fold, was ignored by the British.
    Bull Shit.

    Then enlighten us ignorant posters how many people died of hunger in Bengal and what effective measures did British take to alleviate this hunger. Otherwise you statement is BS.

    • Replies: @Malla
  1284. @Malla

    That guy is just another Team Russia liar. Fits in well with all the Team China liars here.

    • Agree: Malla
  1285. @Precious

    Let me summarize: given dysfunctional state of the US political system, equally dysfunctional state of the US healthcare (which cares about taking away your money, not about your health), and throwing in some government incompetence, the US response was the best it could have been. Let me point out that dysfunctional state of the US political system and healthcare was the whole point of many posts in this thread.

    Developing a test that works correctly takes time

    Now, if “time” means weeks, it’s true, but if “time” means months, this is proof positive of government incompetence. Chinese published the sequence of the genome of this virus in mid-January. Developing reliable RT-PCR-based test should have taken 2-3 weeks in the US with its scientific potential. Many months later the tests are still being “developed” (with the touted CDC test having been proven faulty).

    This shows that the US system is as effective as an economic system that would cause a shortage of sand in Sahara. The experimental data are in. Case closed.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Precious
  1286. TT says:
    @denk

    The most priced target of MH370 is the group of China scientists carrying the latest nano controller samples. Its reported US launched a similar nano controller one year later. The place to search should be US army base in Diego Garcia.

    A TINY MICROCHIP Was The Likely MOTIVE For The Pentagon-Zionist HIJACK Of MH370
    Mr. Yoichi Shimatsu is a Hong Kong-based science writer, former editor of The Japan Times Weekly and a founding faculty member of journalism schools in Hong Kong and Beijing. Exclusive To Rense.com
    http://www.4thmedia.org/2016/02/a-tiny-microchip-was-the-likely-motive-for-pentagon-hijack-of-mh370/

    [MORE]

    HONG KONG – The question tormenting millions of cyber-sleuths is Why? What could be the motive behind the elaborate plan for the midair capture of Malaysian Airlines flight 370?

    Among the 200-plus passengers bound for Beijing, the target group for the hijack is narrowing down to 20 tech employees working for Freescale Semiconductors, based in Austin, Texas. Among these programmers and systems designers are 12 Malaysians and 8 citizens of mainland China.

    Besides its lucrative production of microchips for automotive components, Freescale has extensive contracts with the U.S. military, producing wafers and circuits for navigation, periscopes, electronic targeting, self-guided missiles and other weapons systems that require intelligence controls.

    Ultra-small Microcontoller

    In February 2013, Freescale unveiled the Kinesis KL02, the world’s smallest microcontroller, measuring 1.9 mm by 2mm and containing RAM, ROM and a clock. The company brags that the device is so small that it can be swallowed for medical uses, such as releasing drugs according to prescription schedule or directing micro-surgery.

    Tiny though it may be, the micro-controller is the key to next-generation warfare based on self-guidance, tactical versatility and hierarchy of commands, in short, an adaptive thinking weapon that can outsmart foes. Potential applications include:

    – Drones smaller than a fly, either as remotes or autonomously, on surveillance missions or to deliver biowarfare packets, for example, lab-cloned viruses or toxic drugs. Their light weight means longer flying periods or even indefinite hovering time if solar-powered.

    – Injectable implants to insert a human-machine interface, for example, a targeting system attached to the optic nerve, rendering Google glasses obsolete. Bionic implants could be implanted in nerves of the limbs to control battery-powered prosthetics, realizing the Pentagon’s dream of a human-centered robotic warrior, known to anime fans as “meka”.

    – Maneuverable micro-satellites and mini-submarines that can be operated as drones or act independently to track and hunt larger weapons systems, spy satellites too small to be detected by ground telescopes, and orbiting warheads containing chemical, biological or nuclear materials.

    Whatever the role of the plane crew, the NSA and US Air Force Space Command do not need manned piloting, except to maintain the appearance of normality at takeoff from Kuala Lumpur International Airport.

    As discussed in my earlier article, voice communication and navigational signals would have been disabled by a burst of powerful narrow-aperture radar used for electromagnetic warfare.

    The cockpit computer would then be reprogrammed, using Boeing’s own emergency piloting system, expanded with Pentagon and Israeli software.

    From the South China Sea to Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, the jetliner would be remote-controlled by a drone operator.

    Its unscheduled flight path would be tracked and subsequently remoted from data records by the NSA listening posts in Sri Lanka and the Jindalee eavesdropping facility in northwest Australia.

    Radar stations in the Maldives, installed under a US maritime accord, served to guide the jetliner to the southernmost atoll of the archipelago toward Diego Garcia, immediately to the south.

    The airliner’s descent over the Maldives, according to witnesses, went smoothly, for a safe landing on the long tarmac at the US Air Force Base on Diego Garcia Island, a CIA rendition center with underground hangars and prison used during the Iraq and Afghan wars.

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
    , @Biff
  1287. denk says:
    @TT

    Yes.
    Spent a lot of time on SARS1 and Mh370, I knew it wasnt accidents from the outset and it reeks of the UsualSuspects.

    Who’s the motive ?

    [MORE]

    The reasons for targeting Malaysia becomes clearer by examining the bigger picture of an aggressive military build-up in the Southeast Asia region by the combined armed forces of the US, Japan and Australia under Washington’s “strategic pivot to Asia” policy. This geopolitical strategy is carried out by the Pentagon and its military allies through the Air-Sea Battle Concept, which disperses Navy and Air Force fighter jets across a network of civilian airfields and secret landing strips.

    Beijing is not the only target of the Air-Sea Battle Concept. Malaysia runs a close second to China on Washington’s enemies list. Flight MH370, destined for Beijing, is the literal embodiment of the economic alliance and political relationship between : China and Malaysia, making the airliner a most convenient target.

    Pressuring Kuala Lumpur

    Located on the geostrategic Malacca Strait, Malaysia is a predominantly Muslim oil-producing nation with a “Look East” policy allying itself with Japan and China. Last year the Malaysian and Chinese governments established an economic alliance, which includes Asian access to world oil reserves. In the eyes of Washington and its allies, these are sufficient grounds to treat Kuala Lumpur as an adversary.

    Even though the Malaysian police force has cooperated closely with the US Embassy in the war on terror, which led to arrests of top-ranking Al Qaeda-linked terrorists, that is not good enough. The late Moammar Gaddhafi of Libya and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad also aided Washington in post-911 anti-terrorism, and look where it got them. It is not enough to be a friend of America. For a leader to survive, he must be a groveling yes-man, a political slave – and never mind America’s long-forgotten principles of sovereignty or self-determination.

    https://rense.com/general96/mh370.html

    • Replies: @TT
  1288. denk says:
    @TT

    Do you have difficulty using waybackmachine webarchive ?

    It hasnt been working for me since last year .

    • Replies: @TT
  1289. Eagleone says:
    @Ozymandias

    It seems that Mr Unzi basis his whole logic on the idea American intelligence knew what was going on before the Chinese did. I think that is a weak arguement assuming the Chinese didn’t already know but where keeping it to themselves.

    I knew in mid December probably a month before any story in the mainstream media. Sources in China were blogging about it already back then. Hal Turner was an early source calling the communists out on human to human transmission over a month before the Chinese admitted publically to this. I live in Northern Canada and was telling family to get out of the stock market at Christmas because of this virus.

    Just because NATO intelligence knew of this virus in November months before China admitted to it does not prove America did anything to start this. It just proves sources on the ground where listening to Chinese bloggers is all… as I was too.

    If China is so upstanding in all of this then why did they block all internal travel to or from Wuhan, while at the same time exporting infected Wuhan ‘tourists’ around the globe for a full month from Wuhan international airport knowing full well for three months how lethal this virus would be to the whole world, not just America? If China wanted to stop its spread they could have and choose not to, so why does Unzi gloss this over as irrelevant. China choose to allow it to spread to the world while sealing off travel within China and used this time to buy up all the needed ppe from the victims it knew it was infecting… how on earth can that not be damning evidence much more so then the hypothetic coincidences with multiple separations of connection that Unzi draws his conclusions from.

    I think this whole article raises some questions, but is nothing more than speculative propaganda by a partisan that hates neocons. I hate neocons too and put them on par with communist China as the greatest threats to our world, but I think Unzi is off base here and doing the propaganda work of the CCP at this point. IMO

  1290. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Now, if “time” means weeks, it’s true, but if “time” means months, this is proof positive of government incompetence. Chinese published the sequence of the genome of this virus in mid-January. Developing reliable RT-PCR-based test should have taken 2-3 weeks in the US with its scientific potential. Many months later the tests are still being “developed” (with the touted CDC test having been proven faulty).

    This shows that the US system is as effective as an economic system that would cause a shortage of sand in Sahara. The experimental data are in. Case closed.

    Exactly. Despite the very strong circumstantial evidence suggesting that the Coronavirus outbreak was an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran), one might normally dismiss the possibility. After all, how could anyone have taken such a step without properly considering the very real possibility that the virus would leak back into America and Europe, leading to enormous destruction? Such an action would seem just too reckless, crazy, and incompetent for anyone to have taken.

    But unfortunately it seems quite in keeping with the extraordinary incompetence of America’s current ruling elites…

    • Disagree: Peter Gent
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Harold Smith
  1291. Precious says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Let me summarize: given dysfunctional state of the US political system, equally dysfunctional state of the US healthcare (which cares about taking away your money, not about your health), and throwing in some government incompetence, the US response was the best it could have been.

    Not quite. My primary point is that…South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore = “competent and energetic responses” while America and several European countries = avoided “competent and energetic responses” and are now paying “terrible price for their insouciance” is nothing but declaring the glass of water is half full in Asian countries and half empty in America and Europe.

    The reality is that South Korea and Singapore botched their responses, Taiwan is either very lucky or just ignoring the problem, and Japan is muddling through thanks to its people being united and obedient.

    Let me point out that dysfunctional state of the US political system and healthcare was the whole point of many posts in this thread…Developing reliable RT-PCR-based test should have taken 2-3 weeks in the US with its scientific potential. Many months later the tests are still being “developed” (with the touted CDC test having been proven faulty)…This shows that the US system is as effective as an economic system that would cause a shortage of sand in Sahara.

    And you will notice that I didn’t dispute any of that in my post. I did provide context as to why the US response is too slow, but it wasn’t because the problem was ignored and solutions were avoided. It is because (among other reasons) that the US is not a united nation, it is multiple nations in conflict with each other. Solutions available to smaller eastern nations would not work in the US.

    • Agree: Alden
  1292. Anonymous[567] • Disclaimer says:

    China has spread flu pneumonia plagues all over the world for centuries. Here a list of Chinese plagues of the last 103 years.

    1917. Asian flu began N China. spread world wide. This was not the 1918 erroneously named 1918 Spanish flu.

    1957 Asian flu began in China spread world wide.

    1968 Hong Kong flu spread world wide.

    2002 Sars

    2009 Chinese swine flu. spread world wide Perhaps American Big AG like the Cargill farms are doing something right when they vaccinate the herds.

    2018 Another Chinese flu, a variety of the 1968 Hong Kong flu virus spread world wide.

    2020. Wuhuflu just another strain of Chinese flu It’s very mild and much less dangerous than some previous Chinese flus.

    The bubonic pneumonic Plague was capitulated into the Venetian port of Odessa on the Black Sea by a Mongolian army in the late 1300s and spread to Anatolia, Europe Middle East and N Africa. Just another Asian disease.

    This year’s very mild flu is from Wuhan China.

    The hysteria is a media hoax ordered by The Powers That Be. My question is who benefits???

    It’s obvious why American media and TPTB promulgated the hoax, to defeat President Trump’s re election. But why did the rest of the world go along with the hoax is my question.

    • Troll: d dan
  1293. @Ron Unz

    You are right that stupidity and shortsightedness of current US elites is hard to imagine. I am discounting the possibility that this virus was engineered by the US bioweapons research not because I believe that the US military is nice, or smart and far-sighted. My only reason is that they don’t have the capability to engineer something as complex as a coronavirus. They could have selected a suitable variety from the smorgasbord available in bats and used it against perceived enemies w/o foreseeing the consequences. That would take a lot less talent and expertise than engineering.

    It’s the same logic that explains why terrorists do not use bioweapons. Generally speaking, bioweapons are perfect for terrorists, who don’t care who they kill, as long as it’s many and creates panic. They don’t use bioweapons not because they are nice or smart enough to foresee blowback, but simply because they don’t have people with sufficient expertise to produce large quantities of deadly bacteria or viruses w/o getting infected and dying first.

  1294. @Precious

    Yes, part of the US problem is that the country is “a house divided against itself”, using Lincoln’s phrase. But another part (possibly a consequence of this) is that in our current political system nobody even half-decent has a chance to rise to the top. It’s all based on money, and only utter scum would prostitute itself for donations for the next campaign. Competent professional people have certain pride, and therefore scruples. They won’t just say “yes, masa!” and lie through their teeth about Iraqi WMDs, Iranian aggressiveness, or Russian interference in the US elections. So, what we get is woeful incompetence at every level of the government. East Asians aren’t “democratic” enough to fall that low. Lucky bastards!

    • Replies: @Precious
  1295. @AnonFromTN

    But are terrorists from the middle east holding ak47 comparable to the US govt with bio labs all over the world?

  1296. @Ron Unz

    “But unfortunately it seems quite in keeping with the extraordinary incompetence of America’s current ruling elites…”

    I think the COVID-19 “incompetence” of the Trump administration needs to be compared to the 9/11 “incompetence” of the Bush administration.

    If the U.S. national security apparatus had not failed spectacularly on 9/11 and the alleged hijackers had been stopped, there would’ve been no pretext for all the calculated U.S. “government” treachery that followed.

    I believe that the USraeli empire attacked China with SARS-CoV-2. I believe the attackers were hoping that the virus would spread out over the whole country thereby destroying China economically and perhaps politically destabilizing it as well, but the Chinese government took early decisive action that stopped the spread of the virus and blunted the attack.

    Regardless of the effectiveness of the attack, the attackers most likely intended to suffer some degree of blowback in order to create plausible deniability. But when the attack failed, they had to implement plan B, which was to become the “victim” of the evil Chinese communists, thus they needed more casualties, more economic damage and more hardship than originally anticipated.

    This may explain why they made a political football out of hydroxychloroquine and continued to focus on “ventilators” long after it was clear (from peer reviewed publications) that most patients in China that had to be invasively mechanically ventilated died anyway.

    So just like they needed demolished WTC towers and many deaths on 9/11, I think they adopted a strategy of preventing many patients from having early access to hydroxychloroquine so as to increase casualties and get some nice pictures of refrigerated trucks stacked with bodies.

    • Disagree: Peter Gent
    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Patagonia Man
  1297. Precious says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I agreed with you completely up until the 2016 election victory by Donald Trump. That is when I started to doubt. By 2018, I had become convinced that Donald Trump is one of the greatest presidents in US history. The reason I believe this is because I learned that Trump worked undercover with the FBI to take down the East Coast mafia families in the 1980s and 1990s…and because of the fierce struggle for power in the US government behind the scenes that we can only glimpse through heavily redacted and overly long government reports. I am convinced that Trump hones a public image of a sketchy, morally questionable, showboating, rambling clown so that he can fool his enemies and lure them into making unforced errors, just like he fooled the Mafia. Time will tell if I am correct.

    • Agree: Peter Gent
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1298. @Precious

    Not only are you not paying attention, now you’re not even listening. How’s Trump going with that wall? Has he built it yet? No? Remember how he promised to release the classified JFK assassination documents? Has he released them yet? No? Remember when Obama ran for President in ’08? He promised to close down Git-mo. Did he close it? No? It doesn’t matter who the people of the USA vote for, they cannot change government policy via their electoral process. That was proven by the 2014 Princeton University study. So all they’re actually doing is legitimating a corrupted process.

    If you only look through the prism of Democrats vs Republicans, libertarians vs conservatives, etc, etc, you cannot see what’s being done to you. The USA has fallen under state capture and you’re being conned into believing in, and participating in, something that no longer exists, i.e., American democracy!

    The USA has one political party with two wings – the business party – and unlike most other democratic countries around the world, billionaires have inserted themselves above the political authority of the people – and dictate government policy. Worse still, they’re not even American billionaires, in the sense that they owe their loyalty to another country. Check out how many dual citizens are in the Senate (before the 2016 Election, there was 30) – and how many are in the House of Reps.

    I would’ve thought that the whole point of being a free and independent sovereign nation is that the people can make (and live by) their own rules.

    I don’t know what’s worse, whether that you’re so shockingly ignorant of your own electoral process – or that you actually cheer it on!

    • Replies: @Precious
  1299. @Smith

    7 points:-
    1. Chinese fishing junks plied the waters of the South China Sea for centuries, long before the nation-states of Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc were formed (notice I say nation-states);
    2. The Vietnam War killing 2 – 3 million Vietnamese people was not only about containing China but also for US corporation Exxon’s exploration for oil in the South China Sea;
    3. The US’s China Containment policy has been in full swing, one could argue, since the US-inspired 1857 Meiji Restoration in Japan and the annexation of the Philippines as a result of the Spanish-American War, 1898;
    4. China is ringed by US bases;
    5. The USN controls the Straits of Malacca between Singapore and Malaysia and has done since September 11, 2001 – claiming it had to protect shipping from terrorist attack. BS!;
    6. Under international law, UNCLOS has no legal standing;
    7. but the substantive point is, China wants to control one corner of one ocean off its coast, befitting of a superpower, whereas the US controls three oceans – the Atlantic, the Pacific, and with its base on Diego Garcia, the Indian Ocean.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1300. @AnonFromTN

    I just watched a pompeo interview on ABC news where he confirmed the virus is man made. Lol.

    That was a slip up?

    Video was ABC this week with Martha. He was trying to point the finger at China but confirmed it was man made. Lol.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1301. vot tak says:
    @Harold Smith

    The 2 strategies you describe hete are quite plausible. It’s clear that China’s very effective containment of the virus took israeloamerica by surprise and they worked every angle they could to attack China’s effective response from the beginning. It’s also very clear the u.s. regime worked to make the virus spread in the usa.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  1302. Seraphim says:

    Things are getting curiouser and curiouser as Alice (Springs) cried. Made headlines in Australia.

    “How Australia partly funded two Chinese scientists from the Wuhan lab linked to the COVID-19 outbreak to study bat viruses at a CSIRO lab”:

    [MORE]

    ‘Two Chinese scientists who worked for the Wuhan Institute of Virology studied bats in a CSIRO facility as part of researched funded by both the Australian and Chinese governments.
    Intelligence agencies from the ‘Five Eyes’ network comprising of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and the US are examining the work of two staffers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China, according to the Daily Telegraph.
    However, when questioned about the allegations by ABC Radio National, Trade Minister Simon Birmingham denied knowing of any such investigation.
    ‘I don’t and the government does not comment on national security or intelligence matters, that is a long standing practice. I am not aware of any investigation and I wouldn’t comment on them even if I were,’ Senator Birmingham said.
    ‘However, we want to see transparent investigations into the causes so that we can prevent repeats of such pandemics into the future…
    One of the scientists whose work is reportedly being examined by western spies spent three years at the Australian Animal Health Laboratory between 2011 and 2014.
    Zhou Peng, head of Wuhan’s Bat Virus Infection and Immunity Project, was part of a study which involved transporting bats from Queensland to the lab in Geelong, Victoria where they were killed, dissected and studied for viruses.
    The project, funded jointly by the Australia and Chinese governments, found ‘bats are rich reservoirs for emerging viruses’.
    The other scientist whose work is being examined also worked at Australia’s Animal Health Laboratory for three months in 2006.
    Shi Zhengli – who is known as ‘bat woman’ by her colleagues because of her expeditions into bat caves to analyse the animals – studied bat faeces to identify the mammals as a natural host for viruses similar to SARS.
    The two scientists jointly wrote a paper in January that said the new coronavirus probably originated from bats, just like SARS….
    A spokesman for CSIRO confirmed bat research took place with international partners in Geelong.
    The spokesman said: ‘CSIRO undertakes all research in accordance with strict biosecurity and legislative requirements.
    ‘CSIRO’s collaborations with research organisations from many countries around the world are helping drive global effort forwards to human diseases prevention and management.
    ‘As with all partners, CSIRO undertakes due diligence and takes security very seriously.’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8261201/Australia-funded-Chinese-scientists-research-bats.html

  1303. @vot tak

    “It’s also very clear the u.s. regime worked to make the virus spread in the usa.”

    Exactly. I was suspicious when the whole thing started, but the pathetic hydroxychloroquine affair removed any remaining doubt I had that the U.S. “government” wanted casualties here.

    I think they set China up. I think this biowarfare attack against China was in the planning for years. The U.S. “government” apparently cooperated with and funded the Wuhan lab and conducted joint studies with personnel from the lab. They published a paper in 2015 which concluded that it was possible for a bat coronavirus to emerge that would infect humans. This study set the stage for the attack.

    Moreover, the cooperation with the Wuhan lab was probably also a ploy to get some inside information and maybe take some pictures that could be used later to build a circumstantial case against the lab alleging that lax safety standards and practices at the lab allowed the virus to escape, or something like that.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Peter Gent
  1304. @Precious

    Time will tell if I am correct.

    Exactly. I believe in experimental results. So, we’ll see.

  1305. Anonymous[742] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johnny Pranke

    I think I see Godfrey Roberts in that picture.

  1306. @Astuteobservor II

    I just watched a pompeo interview on ABC news where he confirmed the virus is man made.

    So, the US is maintaining plausible deniability. When push comes to shove, the US government can officially state that Plumpeo is an idiot, and nobody would be able to refute that.

  1307. Biff says:
    @TT

    The place to search should be US army base in Diego Garcia.

    That would be the obvious place, and it was quite amusing to see the diversion of the search area thousands of miles to the south near Australia. Who were they trying to kid?

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1308. Smith says:
    @denk

    Yo, read it carefully, that’s my point. Bhutan, Myanmar are too small and too-inland for that matter, they have no choice but to suck up to China.

    Laos is a battleground, like Cambodia, both Vietnam and China invest in both heavily because they are potential invasion points (China used Kampuchea’s Pol Pot to indirectly invade Vietnam southern part).

    Korea, like Myanmar is basically next to China and North Korea is subsidized heavily by China, they have no choice in the matter to side with China. The very moment US troops are out, expect them to side with China.

    The heavy-hitters in the region (Vietnam, Japan and India) oppose China because we have the manpower and geographical independence to resist China if need be.

    • Replies: @denk
  1309. TT says:
    @denk

    China friendly Malaysia PM Najib was couped. He should have shut down all US NGOs, FB & Goggle 7yrs ago after endless color revolution campaign was launched on him & gov.

    The CIA-Soros-AIPAC open interference & FB endless brainwashing with black shirt riots like HK was so successful, many of my Msia friends were so blinded into vehemently overthrowing Msia gov that provide them best economy growth & stability. I watched these happened infront my eyes.

    Towards a “Colored Revolution” in Malaysia? US and Pro-Israel Foundations Channel Support to Pakatan Rakyat Opposition
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/towards-a-colored-revolution-in-malaysia-us-and-pro-israel-foundations-channel-support-to-pakatan-rakyat-opposition/5305869/amp

    • Replies: @denk
  1310. TT says:
    @denk

    I only learn about such interesting tool after checkup the meaning of waybackmachine & webarchive you mentioned.

    But i noticed many interesting search results disappeared 3yrs ago in Google even i had already search the exact site with keywords previously, so i often need to use Duckduckgo or Yahoo to find again. Last 2years these search engines also stop functioning. So i start archive up most articles nowadays, they took up lot of space.

    • Replies: @denk
  1311. Smith says:
    @Patagonia Man

    3 points:

    1. Chinese fishermen have to abide laws like every other nation fishermen, and every nation fishermen have been fishing in that sea before the concept of China even exists.

    2. The Vietnam war was about controlling Vietnam, China helps Vietnam to push out americans, then China invades Vietnam and pushes Vietnam right back to America, which make the whole war pointless. The bigger irony is that Ho Chi Minh was a big friend of America until America betrays him, if America has propped him up, there would be no war.

    3. The fact China wants to control seas to one-up America means nothing, Vietnam is not interested in your imperial games, Vietnam water for Vietnam, simple as that. And as long as China wants to enforce the nine-dash line, you will have war.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  1312. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Precious

    Solutions available to smaller eastern nations would not work in the US.

    Okay, what about solutions available to a certain VERY large eastern nation, that has a much greater population mass than the U.S.?

    • Replies: @Precious
  1313. Joshua says: • Website

    Excellent article. Very well done.

  1314. Seraphim says:
    @Smith

    Vietnam ‘Center of the World’?

    • Replies: @Smith
  1315. Smith says:
    @Seraphim

    No. It means Viet in the South.

    But what does the Middle Kingdom mean?

  1316. denk says:
    @TT

    [[[they]]] had been trying to oust Najib for years, got him with corruption charge in the end.
    Sounds familiar ?

    This Mh370 caper , one stone killed how many birds ?

    Pay back for that tribunal in KL 2013, which indicted BUsh/BLair as war criminals and Mahathir’s ‘insolence’ , in calling fukus state terrorists.

    Drive a wedge bet KL/Beijing.

    Prevent high tech chip tech falling into Chinese hands.

    BUmp off senior Huawei/ZTE exe and other Chinese electronic experts onboard, those must be high value targets in [[[CIA/MI6]]] lingo ???

  1317. @Harold Smith

    You can tell its not “incompetence” as no heads have rolled. Same as September 11.

  1318. denk says:
    @TT

    If you find anything interesting, archive it in your hd, both the link and text.
    html takes up lots of space, I copy the content to a text file.

    Wayback machine used to be good, You put a dead link in and they gave you an archived page.

    Couldnt use it for almost a year already, [[[they]]] are scrubbing everything on the net not to their liking.
    Enjoy our ranting while it still last, my friend.

  1319. @denk

    I suppose if you can’t be bothered even to use the Internet intelligently it will be useless to ask why Harry Harris, even if he took up the ambassadorship, was replaced by one Arthur B. Culverhouse in November 2018? I ask anyway.

    • Replies: @denk
  1320. denk says:
    @Harold Smith

    set up

    TT and I agree.

    [[[they]]] are pushing the meme that the funding stopped when that ‘GOF’ research seemed to be turning risky, after that Shi carried on her own way.

    Firstly, as you can see from that 2015 report, Shi was just a bit player, the last name on the list in fact, I heard her contribution mostly come from the ‘donation’ of bats for her colleagues to ‘experiment’ on. Its obviously a murikkan project, with her name added for nefarious purpose.

    Secondly, its hilarious that [[[the mofo]]] would feel squeamish on playing with dangerous virus.
    They have no qualm messing with all kind of craps known to man, prolly many unknown too…bird flu, swine flu, Ebola, Dengue, Bubonic, HIV, Mers, you name it.

    For example, we know [[[they]]] have done extensive research on bird flu weaponisationthreat reduction‘ [sic] research, hell, they even proudly publicize the proj.

    https://eclinik.net/heres-the-proof-flu-virus-was-deliberately-weaponized-for-widest-transmission/

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
  1321. @Precious

    We have to understand the ‘Shock Doctrine – The Rise of Disaster Capitalism’ as Canadian Naomi Klein puts it.

    The Zionist-Occupied Governments (ZOGs) of the UK, the US (and to a lesser extent France) have allowed the virus to run – so it becomes a a bigger problem than it would have otherwise. Cleverly, Trump is going to ‘play the victim’ all the way up to this year’s Presidential Election – exactly 6 months away now.

    Its been a boon financially for the big end of town; he can use it to demonize China, manufacturing consent (See Noam Chomsky’s excellent doco by that name) to either seek reparations, or worse still, declare war. It also ‘wedges’ his political opponents, the Dems, in an election year – leaving them no where to go. If they call for negotiations with, or restraint against, China, whipped up by the right-wing media – they will easily be denounced as pacifists and as unAmerican – which energizes Trump’s base. Its an ingenious re-election strategy if you think about it – and Trump is going to play it for all its worth.

    To understand how psychopaths think – sadly, one has to start thinking like a psychopath – and they’re all psychopaths

  1322. JDTrader says:
    @denk

    Maybe China has no problems with its neighbors but there are neighbors that have a problem with China:

    Taiwan
    Tibet
    Philippines
    and the 3 you mentioned

    Unrelated – I’m not a big conspiracy theory believer but one thing I do know is that China has a history of lying so anything is possible….

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/02/intelligence-report-says-china-lied-about-origin-of-coronavirus/

    • Replies: @denk
  1323. @FB

    Most people commenting on most important subjects are let down by poor numeracy and, very often poor demographics in consequence. Hardly any major issue over the last two hundred and fifty years can be analysed intelligently without reference to population growth and growth rates – and the causes of changes and differences. I would be interested to know if you have given attention to that with particular reference to the regular Indian famines.. (One of my favourite cases is the implications of the still high fertility Germans and Russians producing respectively 2 million and 5 million babies in 1913 so Hitler and Stalin didn’t have to worry about WW1 losses!).

  1324. Erebus says:
    @AnonFromTN

    They could have selected a suitable variety from the smorgasbord available in bats and used it against perceived enemies w/o foreseeing the consequences. That would take a lot less talent and expertise than engineering.

    That would indeed take a lot less talent and expertise, but the notion also suffers from a couple of weaknesses and flies in the face of authoritative statements that the SARS-2 genome contains insertions and deletions that would be highly unlikely in nature.

    As I understand it, the genome of every corona virus found to date has been sequenced and is available in at least one of several scientific databases for quick matching. In SARS-2’s case, no matching virus genome has been found in those databases.

    The closest is reportedly 96%, though the functionality of the discrepant 4% is a matter of some controversy (cf: Pekova & Montagnier). At the very least it couldn’t have been “selected” unless it was from a private/secret database of unpublished genomes and live specimens were available for dissemination.

    I can buy into the notion that such private/secret databases exist, and even private/secret repositories of live viruses. As it obviously hadn’t happened naturally to date, the zoonotic leap from animal host to humans would have to have been “engineered”, doubtless with an intermediate step in a petrie dish.

    As one would expect that a normal/academic/publicly funded bio-lab would have published its discovery, your scenario necessitates that a private/military bio-weapon/research lab came across a new virus with extraordinary properties and realized they’d hit paydirt. Not only was it utterly unknown to 1,000s of researchers, it was recognized by the discoverers as having everything needed for immediate utility as a weapon. That’s surely as extraordinary as engineering it.

    One requires uncommon skills, the other uncommon luck. My money would remain on uncommon skill.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  1325. denk says:
    @Smith

    Myanmar ‘too inland’., ?

    ROTFLMAO

    Either you’r a very stupid VN gook, or an imposter from the land of ‘we cheat, we lie we rob’
    hehhehe

    hey genius

    Why’d India, Jp wanna ‘resist’ China ?
    When did China ever threaten India the ‘heavy hitter’ [cough cough] or Jp ?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1326. denk says:
    @JDTrader

    Tibet

    Tibet a ‘neighbor‘ ?
    So you dont recognise Chinese sovereignty over Tibet while you’r squatting on the biggest land grab in human history ?

    China has a history of lying **

    You mean, like …

    [MORE]

    The Gulf of Tonkin,
    Sinking of the Maine,
    Iraq WMD,
    Kuwai baby incubators,
    The Racak ‘massacre’,
    The TAM ‘massacre’,
    The Tibet ‘genocide’,
    The Xinjiang ‘genocide’
    The UIghurs ‘concentration camps’
    The HK ‘police brutality’
    Bin Laden did 911
    Saddat gass his own people,
    Ghadafi’s soldiers on viagra rape fest,
    The Russiagate,
    Yellow peril
    etc etc…………..

    Tip of an iceberg

  1327. denk says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    it will be useless to ask why Harry Harris, even if he took up the ambassadorship, was replaced by one Arthur B. Culverhouse

    You should ask your masters in the Washington cesspool,

    Why keep sending these war criminals, coup masters, as viceroys , er, ambassadors to poor old Oz ?

    Need introduction to Marshall [coup master] Green …
    The sob who mastermind the 1965 genocide in Indon, the mofo who orchestrated a palace coup to oust Whitnam, cuz he wanted to normalize relation with China ???

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1328. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    Middle Kingdom mean:
    a small agriculture civilization find themselves to be the first ones settle down in one small fixed place while they are surrounded by hunting gathering fishing picking hordes AKA barbarians.
    This agriculture civilization started its journey of expansion as many neighbors also find that settle down life attractive. So the original hordes join in with new lands, new population, many fights, and they settle down together.
    Middle kingdom expansion lasted for millenniums till its agriculture techniques can’t hold more land more population. Plus all the remaining neighbors lands not attractive for agriculture habit. So middle kingdom stopped expansion more than one millennium ago.
    But the remaining hordes can’t stop been attracted by middle kingdom’s settled down life. They invade and again, they bring in more land and population to middle kingdom.

    [MORE]

    It’s not the case that middle kingdom can always hold every land it once acquired.
    Vietnam is a piece that is so small so insignificant and so far away from the heart of middle kingdom, so it escaped the gravity.
    Though escaped, Vietnam got the middle kingdom syndrome. It develops very complex feelings about the middle kingdom. Vietnam want many different things at the same time:
    1. If the real middle kingdom could just simply disappear, Vietnam can be the new middle kingdom? At least there is a possibility in the Indo-China peninsula and SEA? So why don’t the neighbors of middle kingdom step up to kill middle kingdom for Vietnam? Those weak coward traitors.
    2. What if the middle kingdom can realize that it has some kind of responsibility to Vietnam, just the way as even a damned father has some responsibility to his son to support him, back up him at any situation for any cost. In that case, again, Vietnam can be the mini middle kingdom in South East Asia.
    3. But this damned father not only abandoned his son, but also come to rob the rightful heritage, the South China Sea. How damned?
    4. Vietnam saw another father across the Pacific ocean: USA, at least a step father it should be. Remember Vietnam is made by the north and the south part? Yeah, Father’s influence and step father’s influence. How great that step father is now stepping up try to killing the father? How bad that father is still alive? How sad for the son waiting for the heritage?

    I feel so sorry for Vietnamese.
    If I am a Viet, I can’t live any good life any more with this middle kingdom syndrome. I will curse China every day. How dare you abandon me? Now I have to keep hating you day and night. Otherwise, I don’ know who I am.
    Once a Middle Kingdomer, forever a Middle Kingdomer, right?

    Poor viet, poor baby, such a poor thing.

    West people may not understand this syndrome, because Roma is dead and you can claim your heritage.
    If Roma never die, you will understand this middle kingdom syndrome.
    Roma not die, you know you are the suspected barbarians. Roma die, you are Roma.

    • Replies: @Malla
  1329. Malla says:
    @AnonFromTN

    British Bengal (today’s nation of Bangladesh + Indian State of West Bengal) was at war (WW2) being a part of the British Raj which was a part of the wider British Empire at that time which was officially at war with the Axis World. Even though many Indian firebrand nationalists like Subhash Chandra Bose for example, who wanted the British out, were allies/ admirers/supporters of Third Reich Germany and Imperial Japan, officially India was a t war with the Axis.
    As Bengal is very close to Burma and thus the invading Japanese Imperial forces, hundreds of thousands of British, Indian, American and Chinese troops arrived in the province of Bengal, straining domestic supplies and leading to scarcities across wide ranges of daily necessities. Bengal was a kind of Allied war camp province. The general inflationary pressures of a war-time economy caused prices to rise rapidly across the entire spectrum of goods and services. The rise in prices was “not disturbing” until 1941, when it became more alarming. Then in early 1943, the rate of inflation for foodgrains in particular took an unprecedented upward turn.
    British Burma (today’s Myanmar) which was a supplier of rice in case of famines earlier and was part of British Empire too was now a part of the Japanese Empire which was at active war with the British Empire at that time (there was fierce armed confrontation in the Burma Bengal border regions between the forces of both the Empires).
    When the famine took place the people in authority in charge of food and its distribution were all ethnic Indians. The British Indian government had passed a law (Government of India act 1935), few years earlier, which gave more powers to the Indian provinces in nearly all domestic matters while the Government of India (British Raj) at New Delhi, only maintained control of Defence, Communication and foreign policy at that time. Agriculture and famine relief was the responsibility of local Indian legislators (Government of India act 1935). The Indian provincial legislators refused to export their surplus grain to Bengal. Some Indian Provinces even blocked transit shipments of grain, from other areas of India, from reaching the Bengalis, their fellow starving Indians. Anxiety and soaring rice prices felt by other provinces and Princely States, triggered by the fall of the rice-bread basket of British Burma to the Japanese Empire were one underlying reason for the trade barriers. The Central Government of India (British Raj) at New Delhi in the end, had to force the Indian provincial Governments, to release surplus grain – for the victims of the famine in Bengal Famine.
    In doing so they undermined the credibility of the Government of India Act (which had given suzerainty over regional affairs to native Indians) which only furthered the demand for full Independence by other Indians!!!! So Lemme get dis straight. The British, by helping starving Bengali Indians got hatred from other (non Bengali) Indians who now more strongly wanted independence from the evul British!!! Wow just Wow.

    The mayor of Calcutta (Bengal) was an Indian as due to the law I mentioned earlier. The ruling party in Bengal was the Krishak Praja Party dominated by Muslims as Bengal was Muslim majority due to predominantly Muslim Eastern Bengal (today’s Bangladesh).
    Local corruption and the hoarding of grain (to force the price up) was commonplace in India (and still is). The Marwaris/ baniyas from North India have always been an economically dominant mercantile community in Bengal and throughout India. Most of the clannish Marwaris merchants who had considerable hold on the foodgrain industry were supporters of the Indian National Congress (Gandhi’s party) and opposed to the Muslim dominated Krishak Praja Party, the shortages were partly political in character, caused by Marwari supporters of Congress Gandhi’s party in an effort to embarrass the existing Muslim Government of Bengal.
    Things became so bad that Lord Wavell, the Viceroy of India after a tour of the famine affected areas immediately sent in divisions of the Royal Indian Army (British Indian Army) to distribute food to the starving people. Since most of the soldiers were from Northern India (Martial races) and thus roti/ flatbread/wheat eaters and the Bengalis rice eaters, the Bengali people had to be trained to make flatbread by Indian troops.
    Will Continue…..

    • Replies: @Malla
  1330. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Churchill diverted grain from other parts of the British Empire (mostly Australia) to India even though food was needed by allied forces fighting the Axis. Canada had offered aid, but in thanking Canadian Prime Minister MacKenzie King, Churchill noted a shipping problem: “Wheat from Canada would take at least two months to reach India whereas it could be carried from Australia in 3 to 4 weeks.”
    At Churchill’s urging, Australia promised 350,000 tons of wheat. King still wanted to help. Churchill feared a resultant loss of war shipments between Canada and Australia, but King assured him there would be no shortfall. Canada’s contribution, he said, would pay “dividends in humanitarian aspects….”

    [MORE]

    The famine continued into 1944, causing Secretary of State for India Leopold Amery to request one million tons of grain. Churchill remained concerned about the shipping problem, “given the effect of its diversion alike on operations and on our imports of food into this country, which could be further reduced only at the cost of much suffering.” Food was needed for Allied troops fighting the Axis forces and at the same time ships were being lost in the Indian Ocean in between India and Australia/ New Zealand to Japanese submarines.

    Secretary of State for India, Leopold Amery and the Viceroy of India, Lord Wavell continued to press hard for wheat for Bengal, and in the Cabinet of February 14th Churchill tried to accommodate them. While shipping difficulties were very real, Churchill said, he was “most anxious that we should do everything possible to ease the Viceroy’s position. No doubt the Viceroy felt that if this corner could be turned, the position next year would be better.” Churchill added that “refusal of India’s request was not due to our underrating India’s needs, but because we could not take operational risks by cutting down the shipping required for vital operations.”

    The war pressed Britain on all sides; shipping was needed everywhere. Indeed, at the same time as India was demanding another million tons, Churchill was fending off other demands: “I have been much concerned at the apparently excessive quantities of grain demanded by Allied HQ for civilians in Italy, which impose a great strain on our shipping and finances,” he wrote War Secretary Sir James Grigg. “Will you let me have, at the earliest possible moment…estimates of the amount of food which is really needed….”

    Churchill and his Cabinet continued to struggle to meet India’s needs. While certain that shipping on the scale, Leopold Amery and Lord Wavell wanted was impossible without a “dangerous inroad into the British import programme or a serious interference with operational plans,” the Cabinet grasped at every straw, recommending:

    (a) A further diversion to India of the shipments of food grains destined for the Balkan stockpile in the Middle East. This might amount to 50,000 tons, but would need War Cabinet approval, while United States reactions would also have to be ascertained; (b) There would be advantage if ships carrying military or civil cargo from the United States or Australia to India could also take a quantity of bagged wheat.15

    A month later Churchill was hoping India had turned the corner when his Minister of War Transport, Frederick Leathers, reported “statistically a surplus of food grains in India.” Still, Leathers emphasized “the need for imported wheat on psychological grounds.” What were they? Amery explained that “the peasant in 750,000 villages” might hold back “his small parcel of grain” if no outside aid was in sight. He said he could ship 200,000 tons, “provided that the twenty-five ships required were surplus to the Army’s needs.” But Amery wanted double that quantity.

    Again trying to help, the Cabinet suggested that India had underestimated its rice crop. While agreeing to send the 200,000 tons, Churchill told Amery he could get another 150,000 tons from British Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) in exchange for excess rice: “The net effect, counting 50,000 tons previously arranged 400,000 tons of wheat.”

    In April, it was Viceroy of India, Lord Wavell asking not for 400,000 but 724,000 tons! India was just asking too much in such difficult conditions. Now the problem was unseasonable weather and a deadly explosion in the Bombay Docks, which destroyed 50,000 tons of food grains. Peasants were still holding back their crops, Lord Wavell said; rumors were circulating “that London had refused to ask America for help.”

    When Churchill asked U.S. president Roosevelt for some aid for the starving peoples of Bengal, the same Roosevelt who was arm twisting the British to give independence to India, flatly refused.

    Churchill agreed to write President Roosevelt for help, and replace the 45,000 tons lost in the explosion. As good as his word, and despite preoccupation with the upcoming invasion of France, Churchill wrote FDR. No one, reading his words, can be in doubt about his sympathies:

    “I am seriously concerned about the food situation in India….Last year we had a grievous famine in Bengal through which at least 700,000 people died. This year there is a good crop of rice, but we are faced with an acute shortage of wheat, aggravated by unprecedented storms….By cutting down military shipments and other means, I have been able to arrange for 350,000 tons of wheat to be shipped to India from Australia during the first nine months of 1944. This is the shortest haul. I cannot see how to do more.

    I have had much hesitation in asking you to add to the great assistance you are giving us with shipping but a satisfactory situation in India is of such vital importance to the success of our joint plans against the Japanese that I am impelled to ask you to consider a special allocation of ships to carry wheat to India from Australia….We have the wheat (in Australia) but we lack the ships. I have resisted for some time the Viceroy’s request that I should ask you for your help, but… I am no longer justified in not asking for your help.”
    Winston S. Churchill to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, 29 April 1944. Prime Minister’s Personal Telegram T.996/4 (Churchill papers, 20/163).

    Roosevelt replied that while Churchill had his “utmost sympathy,” his Joint Chiefs had said they were “unable on military grounds to consent to the diversion of shipping….Needless to say, I regret exceedingly the necessity of giving you this unfavorable reply.”
    Roosevelt to Churchill, 1 June 1944. Prime Minister’s Personal Telegram T.1176/4 (Churchill papers, 20/165).

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  1331. Malla says:
    @denk

    You forgot Pearl Harbour and Lusitania.

  1332. @denk

    Jesus. Another “China doesn’t lie because the US lies even more” idiot. You guys need better material.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Harold Smith
  1333. Adûnâi says:
    @Malla

    > “Churchill diverted grain from other parts of the British Empire (mostly Australia) to India even though food was needed by allied forces fighting the Axis.”

    Who would have thought that race-traitor Churchill deeply cared for the sanctity of life of non-White shitskins of India?

    It is ironic how Westerners can never throw off the veil of Christianity off their eyes. Aryan people must be hated for not murdering non-Whites – with that, I concur.

    • Replies: @Malla
  1334. denk says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Genius,

    Im just saying he’s another
    bandit crying robbery.

    Now your turn to show me
    ‘China’s long history of lying’

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1335. @Beefcake the Mighty

    First, he didn’t say “China” “doesn’t lie.”

    Second, there’s nothing “idiotic” about his impliedly pointing out the fact that like everything else in the universe, evil lies on a spectrum, and the Satanic USraeli empire which is built on lies, run by pathological liars – and which cannot exist as anything other than a consummate fraud – is at the extreme end of the spectrum of evil. Nothing else in this world compares to the mendacious evil of the Satanic USraeli empire.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1336. Anonymous[742] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    Show you what? That the CCP isn’t the first government in the history of mankind that doesn’t lie or that it doesn’t genuinely care about its people? Because that’s the fantasy world you Team China retards are living in. You’re so delusional that you really think the CCP is unlike all states that have existed before. I don’t care how bad the US is, it takes a special kind of stupid to believe anything coming out of China.

    • Replies: @denk
  1337. Anonymous[742] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold Smith

    Of course he’s saying China doesn’t lie, because he insists on comparing Chinese actions with American actions that he simply doesn’t like and for which he has no actual proof of being “lies”. Just for the record, I don’t like those American actions either, but it doesn’t mean I have to swallow up CCP agit-prop.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  1338. @denk

    “When did China ever threaten India?” How about 20 October 1962 and thereafter?

    And what Is India to make of China’s port at Hambantota?

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Malla
  1339. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    you really think the CCP is unlike all states that have existed before. I don’t care how bad the US is, it takes a special kind of stupid to believe anything coming out of China.

    So why dont YOU show me the ‘China’s long list of lies’ ?

    You fucking idiotic cunt !
    My time is precious

  1340. denk says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    How about 20 October 1962 and thereafter?

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/06/opinion/IHT-stirring-an-old-cold-war-fire.html

    http://www.island.lk/2006/03/01/features7.html

    And what Is India to make of China’s port at Hambantota?

    India is just like its [[[five liars]]] pardners,
    That proverbial wolf that keep crying wolves.

    http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items/2019/04/26/who-benefited-from-sri-lankan-tragedy/

    P,.S,.
    The other day I granted you amnesty on account of one decent post.
    For this stupid post, you’r back to my bozo file again.

    My time are precious.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1341. Malla says:
    @Adûnâi

    Who would have thought that race-traitor Churchill deeply cared for the sanctity of life of non-White shitskins of India?

    It is ironic how Westerners can never throw off the veil of Christianity off their eyes. Aryan people must be hated for not murdering non-Whites – with that, I concur.

    LOL, the funny thing is after all the things Aryans do for shitskins, most shitskins hate Aryans like crazy and would genocide Aryans if given half the chance. I feel pity of poor ol Whitey. They will never get the luv from shitskins, their very presence creates envy for shitskins.

  1342. Malla says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    How about 20 October 1962 and thereafter?

    Dude get a hold of the classified Henderson Bhagat report of the Government of India on the 1962 war, if you can. It was India which invaded China via the “Forward Policy” and paid a heavy price.

  1343. TT says:

    Japan CDC reported its COVID virus likely come from Europe and US. There are more countries pointing the source originated from US & Europe than China.

    http://en.people.cn/mobile/new/content.html?cI=1007&nI=9685878&aT=m

    Watch how NY Cops enforced their social distancing by beating up bystanders like thugs. That’s US human rights.


    https://www.rt.com/usa/487679-nypd-social-distancing-arrest-video/

    • Agree: Spanky, Iris, Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @denk
  1344. Malla says:
    @Anon

    But the fact remains. Your so called great Middle Kingdom was regularly screwed and molested by Mongols. Mongols treated Middle Kingdom as bitches many times. When Mongols tried the same thing with the Vietnamese, it did not end very well for the Mongols. The Vietnamese kicked their butts.
    I just think that the Vietnamese want to be left alone. They do not care about your Middle Kingdom B.S.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  1345. @Anonymous

    Well I suppose one good strawman deserves another, so knock your socks off.

    But let’s take a minute to analyze the situation a little bit and try to put everything into proper perspective here.

    Let’s see, in the U.S. we’ve got a fake president, who generally does nothing but openly and shamelessly lie, cheat, steal and kill people. And he “leads” a fake government full of fake politicians who generally do nothing but lie, cheat, steal and molest children. And the fake government conducts a fake “global war on terror” the result of a fake terrorist attack. All of it enabled by fake elections, a fake constitution, fake treaties, and a fake judicial system.

    Then we’ve got fake cops; a fake school system that teaches fake history, a fake health care system that treats fake diseases with fake (and often very poisonous) drugs (all at unaffordable prices); a fake mainstream media that promulgates fake news; fake churches preaching fake doctrines; of course we’ve got loads of fake money; with all of the above, of course, ultimately presided over by our fake masters, the fake jews.

    It just seems odd to me that someone who lives in a country that doesn’t even exist (except as some kind of bizarre Satanic chimera) can claim to be so offended under the circumstances.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1346. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold Smith

    You guys really are boring. It is irrelevant if the US is unambiguously “more” of a liar than China. The issue is that there is simply no reason to trust what the Chinese government is saying about this event. If you believe them, you’ve got very little to fear from the US government, let me assure you.

  1347. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    @Malla
    You know nothing about Vietnam. You know nothing about Mongol. You know nothing about Asia.
    At least Middle Kingdom knows it not the agriculture era any more. Yet you are still dreaming for that. Dreaming for Mongols.

    [MORE]

    Vietnam has Vietnam problem. They are the fast copier and student of nearly every China politic and economic policies. But Vietnam is fact divided into three powers: the North, the South, the Army power. These three powers never unite after the country is united. Now they can’t handle each other in their current politic system anymore, the South is in rise. So they decided to give up and let money do all the talk from 2021.
    Mongol has Mongol problem. They give up Russia writing to go back to Mongol wringing this year to identify themselves again.

    Everyone has its own problem to solve. That’s why people should mind his own business.
    But I guess you are white. Possibly some British blood in you. You always mind other people’s business. Otherwise your small islander psycho can’t live. You always talk shit and do some another shit. You always put up the ‘you know all, you master all, you show up from nowhere and you judge all’ face, without knowing that your own butt is naked with shit. Maybe you know that, because it smells bad, but you are capable of ignore that. That’s the biggest talent of yours.

    It’s very interesting that actually Chinese don’t ‘have a thing’ over Mongols, or Viet. We don’t feel bothered at all been called Mongoloid, we have a province call inner Mongolia. And we see Vietnamese as some kind of annoying relatives.
    But clearly some west white ass-hurt-shit ‘have a thing’ over Mongols and Viet due to their bitter histories. And they project their thing onto other people.

    Malla, in your life you must have done many other projection things which made you sound like a fool. Here I suggest you focus more on yourself.
    No, you won’t.

    Many years ago, many things may sound hurting to Chinese. We were that fragile indeed.
    Maybe 10 years ago, if you bring up Japs, that might also hurt Chinese. Not your projection.
    But now, TBH, we have only USA in our eyes.
    So I suggest you tell us more about how USA is treating China like bitches. That will hurt.
    Take your time, because 20 years later, even that USA thing won’t hurt anymore.
    I wish you a long life, at least 40 more year to come, so that you will have some time to finally think about your youth arrogance.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
    , @Malla
  1348. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:

    Right on target, totally brilliant –

    China: We discovered a new virus.
    America: So what?

    Once upon a virus…

    • LOL: Spanky
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1349. @Ozymandias

    I noticed a curious lack of mention of Dr. Fauci’s documented connection to the Wuhan lab and its Coronavirus experimentation and its two rounds of funding from NIH. That work had been moved from a North Carolina lab due to Congressional prohibition. Couple that with their failed inspection by a U.S. team last year that had the team terrified about a possible accidental release and I wouldn’t be surprised that there was a U.S. asset there that warned his/her handlers about a breach, hence the memo from the DIA. The dating is not suspect when you consider how long it takes after exposure and how many people it might go through before anyone would require hospitalization.

    Two things are suspect, if the U.S. had been directly involved.
    1. The Chinese delayed the Trade Agreement in early December until they could get an out clause for “Acts of God” included and it specifically contained “pandemics”.
    2. If the U.S. knew, why would they let that clause in the final agreement since it would defeat the Agreement and if we are involved we had plenty of evidence of China stopping previous outbreaks of serious viruses with minimal effect internally and nothing internationally.

    That brings us to the real issue.

    [MORE]

    Most epidemiologists admit that if China had acted in December or even January when the first work was done on the virus in early December this all would have been prevented, just as they had contained previous outbreaks of other serious viruses by acting quickly. They did not. They destroyed the work and muzzled the people, then got the trade agreement altered. In addition, they knew hundreds of thousands were returning to the Wuhan area from all over the world for the Chinese New Year. They could have stopped that. They did not. Instead, when they finally began locking down things internally, they still let all of those people leave on international flights. That curious duplicity was the primary reason the virus spread worldwide.

    Rather than have the hallmarks of a U.S. action, this looks like an internal problem that China then used to gain an advantage, internal consequences (Wuhan deaths) be damned. They got what would help them, an out to the Treaty and the rest of the World’s economy crippled, with negligible effect on theirs in the long run. They are strengthened and everyone else, especially the U.S. weakened.

    It has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that vitamin D3 contains the worst effects of the virus. An Indonesian study on those hospitalized demonstrated conclusively that D3 levels upon admission pretty much determined outcome. Above serum levels of 25(OH)D of 30 ng/ml you had less than 4% chance of dying despite it being serious enough to hospitalize you. Below that was usually fatal. Instapundit had an article on this study on April 30th (https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/369447/#disqus_thread) but no one has followed up on this, even them, and this important information seems to have died.

    Even NIH suggested back on April 2 the following: “To reduce the risk of infection, it is recommended that people at risk of influenza and/or COVID-19 consider taking 10,000 IU/d of vitamin D3 for a few weeks to rapidly raise 25(OH)D concentrations, followed by 5000 IU/d. The goal should be to raise 25(OH)D concentrations above 40–60 ng/mL (100–150 nmol/L). For treatment of people who become infected with COVID-19, higher vitamin D3 doses might be useful.” This has not been picked up anywhere by anyone who could do something about it. While published it appears to have been buried rather than touted by anyone who matters.
    NIH
    Source

    Also, closing of beaches, knowing the above is literally stupid beyond accidental. It is criminal. It has been proven direct sunlight kills the virus in less than 90 seconds and everyone at a beach even for an hour will get an important boost of vitamin D to protect them from the virus. There is something going on here.

    With media avoiding this obvious solution, no one in authority touting it, evidence to its efficacy being ignored, this is beyond an accident. Those who need to know know this and refuse to publicize it.

    Couple this with the attack against hydroxychloroquine despite a Chinese study submitted March 1 and not published until April 2 and then ignored that proved the science of how this drug prevented one of the secondary attack vectors of the virus (other than the cytokine storm that D3 prevents among other things) where it directly interferes with the ability of hemoglobin to uptake O2, which as it spreads causes a person to suffocate without harming the hemoglobin directly. The Chinese article explained the science behind this and how hydroxychloroquine stopped this vector of attack and was used successfully in China to deal with this issue.
    https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173

    Taken dispassionately, this all points to China, not the U.S., despite the fever dreams of so many of who want to see American brought down. This is also supported by the U.S. response, driven by so many who for reasona either political or financial have crippled what should have been done in this country and have brought us to our knees and trampled our Constitution and basic rights, possibly forever, when simple mass D3 supplementation of the population would have stopped this in its tracks long ago. This is criminal and they know and they have a lot of blood on their hands.

    • Replies: @Peter Gent
  1350. Adûnâi says:
    @Anon

    These are some incredible posts, thanks! It is indeed true that the Mongols are bringing back their script. Would you like to expand on that? The Mongols don’t seem like the friends of the Chinese.

    > “Maybe 10 years ago, if you bring up Japs, that might also hurt Chinese. Not your projection. But now, TBH, we have only USA in our eyes.”

    Do you mean you are expecting the Chinese to conquer America the way Hitler wanted to conquer Russia? If a civil war breaks, this could signify the moment to strike.

  1351. @Peter Gent

    For some reason the two NIH links did not make it in and while I was trying to edit the post the time ran out. Note to ADMIN- You should not close the post to edit while it is being edited in your edit box. Bad form all around.

    NIH https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=32252338
    Source https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/4/988

    One additional resource. Dr. Russell Blaylock’s March Health Newsletter focused on the coronavirus and the problem of cytokine storms, one of the chief killers from viral infections. This is whose main article was Stop the Immune Storm was important but basically ignored. https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/0418-Blaylock.pdf

    • Replies: @Peter Gent
  1352. utu says:

    Good news for Chinese (Godfree) narrative:

    France’s patient zero died of coronavirus in DECEMBER: Doctor says samples from patients with flu-like symptoms tested positive
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8285461/France-saw-coronavirus-patient-DECEMBER-doctor-claims-examining-samples.html

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @d dan
    , @Ron Unz
  1353. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Wow, a gold box, you must be honored! Especially because the previous two times this video was posted it didn’t garner much of a response.

    You guys need new material.

  1354. Iris says:
    @utu

    The Daily Mail has made a slap dash reporting of a serious informatiom that does not suit the narrative they are paid to promote; using the verb “claim” is tendentious.

    The French patient has not died; he had Covid-19 on 27 December 2019.
    The virus was found in his microbiological samples taken at the time.

    Pr Yves Cohen and his team have published an article on the subject for review and sxrutiny by the scientific community:

    SARS-COV-2 was already spreading in France in late December 2019

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643

    The patient had no travel history, and no contact with Chinese individuals. The only hypothesis is that his asymptomatic wife could have gotten the virus from Chinese co-workers.

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/un-patient-atteint-du-coronavirus-fin-decembre-a-bondy-20200503

  1355. Malla says:
    @Anon

    LOL did my post trigger somebody? It did.

    But I guess you are white. Possibly some British blood in you. You always mind other people’s business. Otherwise your small islander psycho can’t live. You always talk shit and do some another shit.

    which made you sound like a fool.

    Actually you are the one sounding like a fool making wild assumptions about me. I am no White guy let alone British. I am a brown Indian guy. My ancestry has nothing to do with the comment on Mongols, China and Vietnam. No projection involved.

  1356. d dan says:
    @utu

    “Good news for Chinese (Godfree) narrative:

    France’s patient zero died of coronavirus in DECEMBER”

    Most Chinese won’t be surprise with this French news. But geez, how can this be good news for Chinese? Chinese now have to answer why didn’t they lock down Wuhan in December, before the first known Chinese case. They also look so incompetent for only manage to silence their doctors on Dec 31, several days later than the France’s patient.

    Meanwhile, an Italian doctor reported that northern Italy had widespread Covid-19 in late November or December. Japanese reported their first patient got it after visiting Hawaii, without contact with anyone from China. A more recent Japanese report claimed that most of their virus were from US or Europe. The same for Korea. Taiwanese scientists reported US has types A,B,C,D,E whereas China only has 3 types. Back in California, the first confirmed death happened on Feb 6. That means the death person must be infected around mid-January, if not earlier. Further, the old person has no history of recent travel nor contact with foreigners – implying he must get it locally. So the virus must be widespread in California in early January or December – because it was extremely unlikely the first person who got it in California was the first person to die.

    So, plenty of bad news for China. Trump thinks the burden of proof is mounting for China, and Chinese really covered up too well. Many commenters in Unz will demand lots of explanations.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @thetruth
  1357. Iris says:

    A document bearing the CDC, Homeland Security and Health and Human Services seals, leaked to the NYT, projects US daily Covid-19 infections and deaths to skyrocket over the next month.

    New coronavirus infections are projected to reach 200,000 a day by June 1, from about 25,000 currently, and daily deaths are expected to go from 1,750 now to around 3,000.

    Described as “an internal document” obtained by the paper, the 19-slide PowerPoint presentation’s forecast is attributed to a Johns Hopkins professor, who qualified it as “an unfinished model”, not supposed to be made public by the CDC. This alarmist forecast has been rejected by the WH. It is however clear from the trends in the document that reported deaths are significantly higher than projected deaths.

    https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6926-mayhhsbriefing/af7319f4a55fd0ce5dc9/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

  1358. Iris says:
    @d dan

    Chinese now have to answer why didn’t they lock down Wuhan in December, before the first known Chinese case.

    By the same standard, the US should have locked down California, and France the Paris metropolitan area, back in January 2020 to “protect the world from the pandemic”, as it is now proven that both regions already had Covid-19 cases back then.

    Instead, both the USA and France didn’t give two hoots about a risk of epidemic, with the WH now even pompously lecturing China about its health response.

    • Replies: @Half Back
    , @Erebus
    , @d dan
  1359. @Erebus

    One requires uncommon skills, the other uncommon luck.

    No uncommon luck is required. Bats have ~ 500 known coronaviruses. The estimates of unknown ones they have range from ~5,000 to 7,000.

  1360. Half Back says:
    @Iris

    Iris, look at this confirmation about the France/Paris outbreak.
    From the Guardian 5th May/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/german-covid-19-cases-may-be-10-times-higher-than-official-figures

    “Research in France, where a Paris-area hospital has retested old samples from pneumonia patients, has found a Covid-19 case from 27 December, nearly a month before the French government confirmed its first cases, and suggesting the virus was circulating in Europe earlier than previously thought.

    Yves Cohen, head of resuscitation at the Avicenne and Jean Verdier hospitals in the northern suburbs of Paris, said the man, who had not made any trips, was sick for 15 days and had infected his two children, but not his wife. “He was amazed. He didn’t understand how he had been infected,” he said.”

    So for the Medical authorities to take a sample ,then/thus he was sick therefor the 27 dec is the start date BUT we know it could be 10 days before you get symptoms that would make you seek medical help, this would mean infection date (remember he never traveled to China) somewhere around early to mid December, and WHO did he get infected from?

    So one by one the evidence piles up that Wet Market is not the first point of infection- unless the French have discovered time travel.

    Also good info that Corona virus is more widespread AND according to the Guardian/researches from Bonn the persons with Corona virus in Germany number 1.6 million with a death rate of 0.37%.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  1361. Precious says:
    @Anonymous

    Okay, what about solutions available to a certain VERY large eastern nation, that has a much greater population mass than the U.S.?

    What about them? Are they doing something we aren’t?

  1362. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    @Adûnâi
    No I don’t mean that. I mean nobody else sounds hurting anymore, no matter they hurt in the past, no matter they are unfriendly or even trying to hurt right now & want to hurt in the future, not a concrete pain thing to us any more. They don’t matter in that way. Big country somehow have to tolerant smaller ones to make a peaceful world.
    We have defensive thinking. We don’t need to do other things to USA to make it unable to hurt us, we just need to keep focus on developing ourselves. When the day come, even USA also become some country doesn’t sound hurt, doesn’t matter in some way, you just have to tolerant it.

    The logic why China love a peaceful world is not only that China need to focus on develop right now.
    Start a war means failure, since you can’t solve the problems in other ways, you start a war.
    But given a war by others, not a failure? If you win the fight, you had failed before the war to show others that it doesn’t worth for them go to war with you, that they can’t win the fight.
    Chinese thinking:
    I don’t start a war with you because I have other ways to solve the problem.
    I don’t get myself invited by you to a war because I told you that your failure don’t worth you to do that.
    That’s two forms of Chinese pride and arrogance with the same result: I don’t even go to war with you.
    Right now USA is the only country we can not perform the second form of pride and arrogance.

    To those who can’t truly understand this proud way of thinking, we tolerant them and secretly see them as barbarians.
    To those who can understand and perform this way of thinking, our highest respect. That’s the level of civilization and power.

    You see the difference? When people are tortured by the west powers, they lost wars. When people are tortured by east power, they get some psyche syndromes (they feel inferior in their civilization and they will start to learn).

    @Malla
    India do have a blood of Britain in them, especially mentally.
    India do feel themselves white, especially the high caste people.
    LOL LOL LOL LOL
    Come on, don’t pretend to me that you don’t feel flattered I assume you white Britain. You people lost your identity long long ago and it doesn’t matter to you lost it another time. They are fake identities anyway. That’s why you fit into the west world so well.
    Come on, you can be honest to yourself. Try it.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Malla
  1363. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    Good news for Chinese (Godfree) narrative:

    France’s patient zero died of coronavirus in DECEMBER: Doctor says samples from patients with flu-like symptoms tested positive

    Well, it’s certainly interesting that someone in France had apparently been infected by December 27th, but I’m not sure it really changes any of our chronologies. For example, according to our current timeline, Chinese doctors in Wuhan were treating dozens of patients by late December, so it seems likely that the outbreak began weeks earlier, presumably in November, and the unknown virus remained initially undetected in a city of 11M as it gradually spread.

    Similarly, we recently discovered that the first American death was in CA on Feb. 6th, weeks earlier than previously believed:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/santa-clara-county-coronavirus-death.html

    Suppose we assume that the Wuhan outbreak began in early November and remained undetected for a few weeks. It seems perfectly possible that some random traveler took the unsuspected virus to France, ultimately leading to the Dec. 27th infection.

    So although the early French case is interesting, I don’t see that it really conflicts with our current reconstruction or changes anything.

  1364. @Half Back

    And here comes some more revisionism!

    https://www.ktnv.com/13-investigates/earlier-coronavirus-timeline-confirmed-in-wake-of-13-investigation

    Within just two days of our story airing, the Nevada Health Response team confirmed what the people we spoke to suspected. That they got sick here in Las Vegas in December and January, and the illness was COVID-19.

  1365. denk says:
    @TT

    YOu heard that ?
    WHO the turncoat, parrtoing [[[eight nations alliance]]] meme, ‘China has not been forthcoming in its handling of the CV19, they didnt response to our request for a joint investigation’
    WHO’s ‘requesting’ a joint investigation with its ‘internatonal pardners’ now.

    IN NIgeria, a London based [sounds familiar ?] lawyer is leading a campaign to sue China at the ICJ for reparation.
    Several other African countries seem to be following suit.
    May be they’r just being opportunistic , following the ENA’s lead , trying to default on their loan, or more likely goaded by you know who.
    Whatever,
    Fact remains that China is up against the world.

    I smelt a rat when the Wuhan outreak news broke during the heat of the trade war, even when its merely a small item in page 10.
    The same way I felt Mh370 stinks to sky high from the outset.

    When so many anon and newbie came to tell us about Shi’s career, her collaborations with the murikkans and showed her works in CV as the smoking gun, the thought of a ‘set up’ started to haunt me….those commentators sounded like ‘insiders’ who knew the ‘plot line’, how the ‘script’ would play out.

    YOur posts strengthen my believe , now we’ve companies in Gordon Duff and Harrod Smith.

    Except for die hard ‘coincidence theorist’, That CV19 is an ‘enemy action’ is almost certain, that China was ensnared becomes more obvious by the day.
    Worse still, What happens if its a set up collaborated by some ‘asset’ in Wuhan ?
    [Peter Cent sounds like an ‘insider’]

    If so, China is screwed.

    [[[five liars]]] and their front man Trump are so smugly bragging that they have ‘solid evidence’, do they know something that we dont ?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Anonymous
    , @TT
  1366. @Peter Gent

    Actually, Blaylock’s newsletter came out in 2008 and detailed everything we needed to know. Paul Craig Roberts made it available in March and publicized it briefly, which is how I heard about it, my mistake. I already knew about D3, but this added to the information.

  1367. @Harold Smith

    What “they” wanted was to take down Trump, even if it means what we are seeing now. He has been upsetting their apple cart and they will do ANYTHING to stop him. This is coup first and foremost. The other stuff is theater.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Harold Smith
  1368. Erebus says:
    @Iris

    Hi Iris,

    Information coming from an increasingly wide array of sources and fields is converging.

    Wuhan/Hubei was not where SARS-2 started, but where it was first met head-on by a determined, energetic elite backed by an equally determined populace while the West’s elites manoeuvred and jockeyed for profitable positions and its insouciant peoples partied on.

    History will record that the Asian Century opened as the Year of the Rat rung in.

    • Agree: Iris
  1369. @Ron Unz

    Suppose we assume that the Wuhan outbreak began in early November and remained undetected for a few weeks. It seems perfectly possible that some random traveler took the unsuspected virus to France, ultimately leading to the Dec. 27th infection.

    However, in your more recent article you say:

    But a few days later, Israeli television mentioned that in November American intelligence had indeed shared such a report on the Wuhan disease outbreak with its NATO and Israeli allies, thus seeming to independently confirm the complete accuracy of the original ABC News story and its several government sources.

    It thus begins to seem possible that the apparent US Intelligence early knowledge may have had more to do with access to medical reports from near a lab they were probably very interested in rather than from having introduced the virus to that region themselves.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1370. @Biff

    Also, the ‘5 Eyes’ partners were testing the Chinese to see what technology they possessed for searching the seabed at those depths. The whole joint-nation search in an area so remote from the probable flightpath was a distraction, as you quite rightly say.

  1371. @Ron Unz

    So you think that China’s success at quenching of all of the previous virus outbreaks and their stopping any spread of information early about this one (did not happen in the other outbreaks) to the point of destroying evidence and then allowing the Wuhan international travel travesty by delaying any real action until it was sure to spread worldwide was not calculated? Sorry but I disagree.

    I do believe that forces in the U.S. have hamstrung our ability to respond with one goal in mind, get rid of Trump, even if it means what we are seeing now. There is no other scenario that fits all of the facts. Especially since a mere universal dose of 10,000 IU of D3 a day would have stopped this thing in its tracks.

    China made this happen to get rid of Trump and those in the U.S. who want him gone are cooperating. If that weren’t true China could have stopped this cold and used the viral evidence against us, if it is indeed a manufactured virus. Too many holes in your arguments.

    • Disagree: Biff
    • Replies: @denk
  1372. Erebus says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, it’s certainly interesting that someone in France had apparently been infected by December 27th…

    He was in the hospital when the test was performed on Dec 27th, so he’d been infected weeks earlier. He could’ve been infected as early as the 1st/2nd wk of Dec, or about the time Wuhan’s doctors started seeing a pattern.

    Should European and American health authorities be allowed to dig deeper, doubtless they’ll find what epidemiologists are saying, SARS-2 has been around for a while.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1373. Ron Unz says:
    @Erebus

    He was in the hospital when the test was performed on Dec 27th, so he’d been infected weeks earlier. He could’ve been infected as early as the 1st/2nd wk of Dec, or about the time Wuhan’s doctors started seeing a pattern.

    Possibly. But it’s perfectly plausible that he was infected in mid-December, given the short latency period. And a mid-December infection would be perfectly consistent with the virus having been brought to France by some random traveler from Wuhan since it was probably quietly circulating there during November. Similarly, no one knows how that first US victim in Feb. picked up the virus since she hadn’t traveled to China.

    Given how infectious the virus is, it just seems to me that if it had been circulating in France as early as October or November, there probably would have been a huge noticeable outbreak by December or January, and there wasn’t. Meanwhile, a French viral outbreak starting in mid-December seems reasonably consistent with the current narrative of an initial outbreak in Wuhan during November, that gradually spread overseas due to travelers.

    Obviously, if they find a French case in October or November, I’ll be very surprised.

  1374. Half Back says:
    @Ron Unz

    My Guardian link had the same information as the Daily Mail. The 27 dec would be the blood sample date so the infection date could be ten days before. Yes this does NOT alter timelines which have already been prove correct. The wet market market thesis comes from a Chinese person who was admitted/tested on the same date 27 dec and he was known to have visited the wet market. So by the facts lay out seem to discredit the Wuhan Wet market with addition supporting facts by Sydney University and Nature magazine contributor, Professor Edward C Holmes who says by his statement that corona virus is a natural. So their goes the Wuhan Lab theory, being spread by a big fat man, Pompeo.

    https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/04/16/COVID-19-statement-professor-edward-holmes-sars-cov-2-virus.html

    Prof Holmes did visit Wuhan and conduct a study was contributor on this Nature Paper.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    This includes taking samples from the Wuhan wet market where it is believed the virus originated. The paper says that “genome sequences of ‘environmental samples’ – likely surfaces – from the market have now been obtained and phylogenetic analysis reveals that they are very closely related to viruses sampled from the earliest Wuhan patients”.

    However, Professor Holmes and Professor Zhang are quick to point out that as “not all of the early [COVID-19] cases were market associated, it is possible that the emergence story is more complicated than first suspected”.

    However you take this information above the timeline goes back to the 18-27 oct World Military Games.

    What are we to make of the US personal sick while attending the World Military games. First Godfree or someone else showed a article and picture of supposedly recovering soldiers who had apparently been treated for a high temperature possibly from Malaria. Well to contract malaria one has to be in Tropical area and what other mammals thrive in tropical areas – Bats . It is possible that the soldiers inadvertently bought it to China, highly unlikely however possible. The US should make available all the contingent of soldiers which participated in the World Military game s China.

  1375. denk says:
    @Peter Gent

    What “they” wanted was to take down Trump,

    Trump is [[[their]]] front man, just like every prez before him.

    I rest my case.

  1376. @denk

    I think you will find that the Australian PM is denying Chinese engineering of the virus.

  1377. denk says:
    @Peter Gent

    China made this happen to get rid of Trump

    Why are there so many nut-jobs in murikka who’r even crazier than those [[[mofo]]] in the Washington cesspool ?

    I rest my case.

    • Disagree: Peter Gent
    • Replies: @Peter Gent
  1378. @Godfree Roberts

    I am willing to believe that employment of prisoners as shills and trolls is not very important but it is a great pity that you serve up misleading arguments which make your attentive readers view anything you write skeptically. I actually read the linked article and it has nothing to say in refutation of the allegation about prisoners which was central to Johnny Prankes’ comment.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  1379. @Precious

    That’s fascinating if true. I mean the collaboration with the FBI. Can you give sources that you regard as reliable?

    • Replies: @Precious
  1380. @Precious

    Travel from Wuhan was banned on January 22

  1381. @Wizard of Oz

    The entire wumao idea is nonsensical on its face and rests upon the assumption that the Chinese need to employ people (or bots, as is usually alleged and which the link debunked) to shill for them because they hate their country and no-one would do it spontaneously.

    That assumption is 180º from the truth. Right now, the PRC is the most popular government on earth, and the most trusted.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1382. @denk

    Still believing and lefty rubbish!? Even Whitlam [that’s the correct spelling] didn’t believe it was the US getting rid of him.

  1383. Precious says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Not only are you not paying attention, now you’re not even listening. How’s Trump going with that wall? Has he built it yet? No?

    Yes he is building the wall. 170 miles built now of 30 foot high bollard wall. About 200-400 additional miles will be completed by the election, depending on the extent of the lockdown.

    Remember how he promised to release the classified JFK assassination documents? Has he released them yet? No?

    No, I don’t remember that at all. Probably because I don’t care. I would rather Trump track down the criminals that are still alive now.

    It doesn’t matter who the people of the USA vote for, they cannot change government policy via their electoral process. That was proven by the 2014 Princeton University study.

    “Proven”. By a study…interesting.

    I don’t know what’s worse, whether that you’re so shockingly ignorant of your own electoral process – or that you actually cheer it on!

    Of course I am cheering it on. I want the wall built, and it is getting built. I want the US to stay out of war in Syria and Venezuela, and Trump did that. I wanted Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on the Supreme Court, and I got that. I want Mitch McConnell to ram through federal judges onto the bench as fast as possible over the screaming objections of the leftists and I am getting that too. I wanted Trump to get back the hostages from North Korea, and I got that too. I wanted NAFTA replaced and I got that too. I wanted Biden family crimes in the Ukraine and I am getting that as well.

    That a bunch of ignoramuses from Princeton proved back in 2014 that I can’t get all this through the electoral process…makes getting it all that much sweeter.

  1384. @denk

    Ah, thank you for reminding me of the ever stimulating often contrarian Greg Clark who couldn’t resist that dig at the ignorant. I’m afraid my attempt to get into gear by some warm up bit picking based in “threaten was a bit too much of a stretch basically because any country seeking to conquer and rule India or any big part of it would have to be as insanely indifferent to the costs to its own people as neocons in the US. But your response on China’s port in Sri Lanka is a complete misfire. Try reading what you linked. It is not too much of a stretch to understand India regarding that as threatening.

  1385. @Godfree Roberts

    Is it beyond belief that somewhere in that vast country some heavily monitored prisoners are given the chance to contribute to foreign threads? I understand your argument that the CCP doesn’t need to coerce anyone but can’t you see some policeman and/or some social scientist or opinion sampler having the bright idea? Sold to the prison governor as good for keeping the prisoners calm but distracted of course.

    I am inspired by the Chinese modifications to my plan for a return to the 18th century system of government

  1386. @Wizard of Oz

    ….. Like the Popes the Chinese were still castration little boys in the 18th century and beyond. Now that they have learned how to create material abundance for the masses while giving opportunities to exercise power or become very prosperous to those with IQs that make them feel entitled it would be a shame if they weren’t able to muster support in their opinion polls even exceeding the genuine enthusiasts who are simple folk who would live a Royal Family or amongst the ambitious who are beginning to understand how the system can work for them.

  1387. Erebus says:
    @Ron Unz

    Obviously, if they find a French case in October or November, I’ll be very surprised.

    So will I, but not (I assume) for the same reason.

    I’ve mentioned a Neurologist contact I have that’s been working the COVID ICU in a large American institute in one of the hottest hotspots. I’m told the whole team (of which 3 were lost) is convinced they’d been seeing isolated cases since late Autumn. I realize that the value of anecdotal evidence from anonymous 3rd parties approaches nil so I don’t expect it to convince anyone, but I personally put great stock by what I’ve heard.

    The reason for my surprise, then would be that the West is going to have to go all-in on the Chinadidit meme if it’s to usefully extend its death throes. The COVID curve ain’t the only one that needs flattening, so I expect the CDC (or whatever appropriate authority) to send out a directive forbidding American labs from doing “unauthorized” testing of samples taken before some politically determined date. The EU will be ordered to follow suit, and some of it will.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  1388. @Patagonia Man

    Please don’t waste reader’s time with rubbish that undermines all hope of learning something from you. E.g. Malacca Straits are not between Singapore and Malaysia!

    I don’t know that what you said about Exxon is equally wrong though I note that it was Esso until 1972 when the US was almost out of Vietnam. Have you any reliable evidence of Esso/Exxon’s oil drilling plans for the South China Sea off Vietnam before 1975? If so, do tell.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1389. VD and Unz, please hit the brakes. Your conspiracy-mongering is increasing the odds of WWIII by aiding the CCP’s attempts to deflect blame and enabling the Trump administration’s paranoia.

    Iran was hit hard because it is a kissing culture religiously against social distancing with a major trade cooperation program with China, which is almost the same set of reasons that made northern Italy a canary in the coal mine. Iran’s government didn’t receive the usual insulation because it’s a theocracy.

    It’s not a coincidence, it’s a correlation. Islam is anti-scientific and anti-Western for related reasons, thus had stronger China ties to reduce Western dependence, and resisted COVID19 poorly.

    The genetic and social factors that make Italians low social distance also make Italians resistant to EU propaganda and more inclined to rebel against the Great Replacement, yet still within the core EU, thus a good target for apparent punishment by the pro-immivasion Cabal.

    The CCP is very bad at hiding its sociopathic hypocrisy during a coverup because post-Mao Chinese are guiltless, but they are not stupid. They are in fact much more intelligent than Western leadership. If the CCP had wanted to introduce COVID19 to crash the global economy, they would not have originated it next to their country’s only BSL-4 lab, much less bungled the response every step of the way, risking regime change and global antipathy.

    [MORE]

    Unz> Then on Jan. 23rd and after only 17 deaths

    If you believe that, I have some real estate in a ghost city to sell you. The SCMP reported the earliest COVID19 case was on Nov 17, which deflates this ridiculous narrative about a US AI early-warning contagion alert proving US complicity. Google does the same thing all the time just by noticing local spikes in queries about symptoms.

    > By any reasonable measure, the response to this global health crisis by China and most East Asian countries has been absolutely exemplary

    Most East Asian countries, yes. China, absolutely not. You are a China idealist, and as an expat who’s lived here for years, I can assure you it’s absurd. Just because the Western cathedral lies about the CCP doesn’t make the CCP honest. And I say that as someone who supports the CCP, which has the Mandate of Heaven.

    China is a /post-Communist country/, and Mao’s legacy is one of total destruction of societal ethics. That’s what you’re missing. It’s a modernizing country, a future superpower, but also a recovering country.

    What needs to happen is to avoid WWIII and let the CCP off easy so that it doesn’t have to be too hardline against foreign powers to maintain its legitimacy. The screwup happened, it’s not going to happen again, and destabilizing China won’t help anyone. Let the CCP save face while Trump drives a hard bargain under the table. God knows China’s been gouging everybody since this started.

    > So for three years in a row, China had been severely impacted by strange new viral diseases, though only the most recent had been deadly to humans. This evidence was merely circumstantial, but the pattern seemed highly suspicious.

    It’s not. China is a giant plague factory. Hence why they were taking crazy risks in their labs.

    > So a massive and deadly new viral epidemic had broken out in China and almost simultaneously, a top American scholar with close Chinese ties and expertise in viruses was suddenly arrested by the federal government

    Explicable by what’s already known. It’s just China stealing more US IP, and the USG finally noticing. Heads must roll for COVID19, and he’s a related guilty head. Plus they need to check him for anything more sinister.

    > One intriguing aspect of the situation was that almost from the first moment that reports of the strange new epidemic in China reached the international media, a large and orchestrated campaign had been launched on numerous websites and Social Media platforms to identify the cause as a Chinese bioweapon carelessly released in its own country. Meanwhile, the far more plausible hypothesis that China was the victim rather than the perpetrator had received virtually no organized support anywhere, and only began to take shape as I gradually located and republished relevant material, usually drawn from very obscure quarters and often anonymously authored.

    This is disrespectful to the major effort, much of it anonymous and heroic in the face of severe persecution, that has gone into establishing the links between the Wuhan labs and COVID19. Your theory is much more tenuous, which is why it receives far less support. Chinese doctors literally disappear for talking about this. Meanwhile large portions of the Western MSM have opposed this message, including Reddit and Twitter censorship, due to the influence of the China-Democratic axis.

    Only now that the USG has credibly broached the topic at after much delay is the MSM forced to treat it seriously. “Natural cause” was the official WHO and MSM line and, it’s difficult to understand how you could’ve missed that. Obviously everyone who thinks independently was going to be suspicious about the highly improbable location of China’s only BSL-4 lab adjacent to the outbreak, so there is nothing strange about people immediately rejecting the official story.

    We already have the smoking gun in a hand known prone to inadvertent trigger pulls. Maybe some Cabal figure wrapped his hand around that hand and helped pull the trigger, but that shouldn’t be speculated about irresponsibly, because it has the potential to incite WWIII. Very likely no such extra hand exists, or China would’ve already found it. Do not doubt the efficacy of CCP interrogators. And if the CCP found it, they would instantly blame the USA with great fanfare to alleviate internal discontent and leverage huge concessions.

    > all these American media sources agree that Chinese officials first became aware of the serious viral outbreak in Wuhan in early to mid-January, with the first known death occurring on Jan. 11th, and finally implemented major new public health measures later that same month. No one has apparently disputed these basic facts.

    Yeah, the MSM isn’t calling out China about its obvious and heinous delays. Because China is an ally of the Democrats, via direct purchase and treasonous cooperation.

    • Troll: Seraphim
  1390. Precious says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    That’s fascinating if true. I mean the collaboration with the FBI. Can you give sources that you regard as reliable?

    Start here:

    https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/trump-docs.pdf

    Then go here:

    https://vault.fbi.gov/nicodemo-scarfo

    In part 1, review pages 222-223. In part 2, review pages 49-50 and page 76.

    The pages are redacted, so I can’t prove the informant discussed on those pages is Trump. But Trump opened his World Fair on the Atlantic City boardwalk in 1981 and got the casino license in 1982. The FBI built their conclusive case against Scarfo by 1985-1987.

    The other circumstantial evidence is who was involved in prosecuting the five Mafia families in the 1980s and who was involved in the Gambino prosecution in the early 1990s. You are familiar with all of them working in the past four years in sensitive positions for the Trump administration.

    Rudy Giuliani led the Mafia Commission prosecution against the Five Families. Robert Mueller led the prosecution against Gambino, with Rod Rosenstein under him. William Barr was the Deputy Attorney General at the time.

    It is my firm belief that Trump plays at being a clown, that he was literally working in an undercover role for decades.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1391. @Wizard of Oz

    You place too much trust in Fox News.

    China bears no resemblance to the hallucinated vision our media project and which you mistake for reality.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1392. @Precious

    The trouble with the “plays at being a clown” theory is that requires that he be very sharp and cunning. Since his overriding objective is, undoubtedly, re-election, the ineptness of his handling of the Covid 19 crisis is surely inexplicable if your theory is correct.

    Would you answer this by reference to the early boost he got in the polls? But is that enough to support your theory?

    Thanks BTW for links I shall follow up.

    • Replies: @Precious
  1393. @Precious

    Clearly, you haven’t heard the axiom ‘if they can get you asking the wrong questions they don’t have to worry about the answers’. I’m no fan of Leftists – as the CIA saw the benefit of ‘Left gatekeepers’ to magnify social issues, back in the 1960s. And I totally agree with you that they are helping to polarize the people of the United States. But if you think that they’re your enemy – you’re looking in the wrong place.

    re: Trump’s Wall. So 3 & 1/2 years after being elected in 2016, he’s built 170mi of a concrete wall that is to cover 1,000 mi (1600 kms) of the 1,900 mi (3,050kms) border natural borders making up the rest. At that rate its gonna take him another 20 & 1/2 years – but he’s only allowed another 4 year term – after he wins later this year.

    re: JFK assassination documents. So you don’t care who killed a democratically-elected President – with no charges laid and no convictions after 56 years – the perfect crime? Do you understand that as a result the USA suffered a coup d’etat (if you know what that is)?

    re: Proven by the 2014 Princeton University Study. Yes, proven – the least democratic nation of all Western nations! Isn’t the USA supposed to be the “city on the hill”? “the indispensable nation”? “the beacon of light to the world”? Read it and weep! https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf

    re: Syria, the reason Trump stayed out of Syria was Russia, an ally of Syria, had a warm water base on the Mediterranean Sea, Tartus, to lose – and was prepared to fight for it; and
    re: Venezuela, the Ruskies landed two, I repeat 2 cargo planes with humanitarian aid – and the gutless USA backed right off!

    re: US hostages – if they weren’t in North Korea on espionage/sabotage missions they wouldn’t have been apprehended. While its great that North Korea released three hostages, NK have regularly released US hostages – at least 14 that I know of since 1996.

    re: Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on the US SC – are they going to be in a position to uphold the US Constitution – or find themselves in a minority dissenting position against the other zionist appointed judges, which is yet another aspect of the state capture of the USA?

    re: the Biden crime family, has any member of the serial sex pest’s family been arrested and charged? No? If not, why not?

    re: NAFTA rather than just reading the headlines, look into the detail of Trump’s NAFTA “re-write” – and get back to me on how it is actually better for the working families of the United States – if that’s who you truly care about.

    Lastly, given that you dismiss the most comprehensive study of the US electoral system ever undertaken by academics from one of the US leading educational institutions, as “a bunch of ignoramuses” (I believe that’s ignorami*) goes to show that you cannot see the wood for the trees because the leaf you’re examining is obscuring your view.

    *LOL, https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ignorami

  1394. @Erebus

    I am 99.99% convinced that covid 19 started in the USA because of 3 reasons.

    USA containing all the strains.

    US govt forbidding testing patients for the virus. That screams SSS level cover up.

    The November report warning about a pandemic one month before the Chinese who are ground zero knows about it.

    The 0.01% is the window for the scientists to prove me wrong. It is the same logic I used for the Holocaust. Forbidding research on any given subject = automatic refutation of all claims.

  1395. @Wizard of Oz

    1. Firstly, a mea culpa: the narrow (550 mi) Malacca Straits is between the Malay Peninsula & Indonesia’s Sumatra – not Singapore, as I wrote.

    2. re Exxon, called Esso up to 1973. re: South China Sea oil exploration, well there’s a whole history of that – and ‘the Seven Sisters’, the world’s major oil corporations would be in on it.

    The point is that the South China Sea is not in US’s national interests. The USA could be a peaceful nation if they wanted to be – it’s girt by 2 oceans and bordered by 2 nations – neither of whom have the will, much less the resources, to invade an occupy the ‘Lower 48’.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  1396. @denk

    You have to make a case to rest it. Ad homeniem fever dreams are not a case.

    • Troll: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @denk
    , @xcd
  1397. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    “[[[five liars]]] and their front man Trump are so smugly bragging that they have ‘solid evidence’, do they know something that we dont ?”

    They always smugly brag. It’s called narative control. The purpose is to imprint the impression int he minds of the masses. You notice in such cases REAL everdence is never forthcoming however the person who displays the most certainty, being rock solid in their delusions is the one who’s reality is accepted.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1398. @Patagonia Man

    It is in the US interest to keep the energy conduit under American control. 90% of the shipping through the straits is to and from China is exactly the reason why USA wants control over it.

    It is in the US interest to make sure Chinese nuclear subs doesn’t have the south China sea to play around in.

    Basically it is normal if we think of all these actions in the view of a hegemon who wants to stay number one.

    Which is why China is finally waking up to the fact that USA is it’s enemy. Some officials are even saying it publicly. Now, that is normal. I always find it weird how China or the Chinese officials always stays quiet. Not like there is any pretense left after the Asian pivot. I am surprised it took so long for China to face the facts.

    It’s peaceful rise is not what USA wants, USA doesn’t want it to rise at all. Judging by woo and other Zionist anons here on unz, it isn’t what they want either.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1399. @Peter Gent

    “What ‘they’ wanted was to take down Trump, even if it means what we are seeing now.”

    Pure nonsense; the murderous con man Trump is their indispensable front man. That they wanted him rather than Clinton has been obvious for a long time. This is why they’re apparently going to run Biden against him rather than a more electable candidate.

    “He has been upsetting their apple cart and they will do ANYTHING to stop him.”

    LOL! Seriously? Anything but remove him from office when they had the chance, that is; anything but provide even a modicum of meaningful political or legal opposition to his many crimes and dangerously reckless and indefensible acts, e.g., seizing Russian and Venezuelan diplomatic property; illegally occupying Syria and seizing Syrian oilfields; single-handedly trashing the framework of nuclear arms control; trying to start a war with Iran apparently in an effort to light the whole Mideast on fire; de facto divesting congress of its war powers by refusing to quit involvement in the genocidal war on Yemen; etc.

    “This is coup first and foremost. The other stuff is theater.”

    Sorry but you’ve got it backwards.

    • Agree: denk
    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  1400. denk says:
    @Peter Gent

    You’r supposed to prove your case.

    There;s no smoking gun in your rant, all your conjectures do not prove
    your crazy claim that the CCP crap this shit in China just to oust Trump.
    Nice try.

    • Replies: @Peter Gent
  1401. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    Unfortunately, the [[[criminals]]] are holding court.

    IN a kangaroo court, no evidence is required.

    Iraq, Libya, Syria, Kosovo, TAM, Tibet, Xinjiang….
    Works like a charm,.

  1402. While it seems clear that SARS-COV-2 has a furin cleavage site that it’s close relative have, how did those other corona viruses that are much less related get their furin cleavage sites?

    Still there seems to be evidence that SARS-COV-2 might have been created in a lab.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  1403. @Harold Smith

    Pure nonsense; the murderous con man Trump is their indispensable front man. That they wanted him rather than Clinton has been obvious for a long time. This is why they’re apparently going to run Biden against him rather than a more electable candidate.

    Wait. Have I got this right. The DNC wanted Trump to win and now does not want to field an electable candidate against him.

    I have seen some crazy conspiracy theories in my time, but …

    Do you have more on this, like some evidence?

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  1404. @Peripatetic Commenter

    That should have said:

    While it seems clear that SARS-COV-2 has a furin cleavage site that it’s close relatives do not have

  1405. Jiminy says:

    Earlier somebody mentioned the five US soldiers that were sick in Wuhan with, supposedly, malaria. Meanwhile the Chinese are pushing a well known anti-malaria drug to help against the Maryland flu. Life’s full of little coincidences. And as we all know, everybody needs a fallguy, and it’s starting to look as if China is that guy. I’ve sat through a few of Connor Reeds interviews, but so far I haven’t heard him explaining where he thinks he was infected in the early to mid November time frame. He was the Englishman who must have been one of the very first sufferers. I have been watching some old reruns of Gore Videl interviews from 2005, and that guy was right on the money. His parting shot was that the world will be saved from American despotism by the coming bankruptcy of the country, and out of that you’ll have awful fallout for everybody and I don’t even want to look into that crystal ball. Uncanny.

    • Replies: @thetruth
    , @utu
  1406. @Peripatetic Commenter

    “I have seen some crazy conspiracy theories in my time, but …

    Do you have more on this, like some evidence?”

    Well if your own eyes and ears and have failed you so miserably, I unfortunately don’t think there’s much I can say to convince you, but here are a few things to think about:

    [MORE]

    First of all, doesn’t it seem a little odd to you that Comey was trying to make Clinton look bad during her presidential campaign? For example, why, just a few days before the election would he send a letter to congress about new (and possibly damning) information uncovered regarding the “investigation” into her alleged email improprieties? And being that Comey was apparently violating DOJ rules when he did this, why didn’t Obama stop him? Why didn’t Obama fire him for that matter?

    And why did lame-duck Obama, with only a few months left in his term, attack the Syrian army at Deir Ezzor in Sept. 2016 – which drastically increased tensions with Russia just as the election was coming into the home stretch – at a time when Trump was promising cooperation with Russia, diplomacy and peace, and Clinton was promising confrontation?

    And why did the democrats not include Trump’s illegal, unconstitutional, immoral and risky attack on the Shayrat airbase in Syria in April 2017, for example, in their impeachment charges against Trump? Trump could’ve started WW3 with that reckless, impeachable war crime. For all Trump knew, somebody might have retaliated, either Syrians, Iranians, Russians or even Israeli agents who’d want to start a war. Trump’s war crimes in Syria were among his most blatant, dangerous abuses of power yet the democrats failed to mention it and instead focused on his attempt to “solicit the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States presidential election” or something like that. Why?

    • Disagree: Peter Gent
    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  1407. d dan says:
    @Iris

    “By the same standard, the US should have locked down California, and France the Paris metropolitan area, back in January 2020 to “protect the world from the pandemic”, as it is now proven that both regions already had Covid-19 cases back then.”

    Certainly. My point is in reply to utu: nothing will be “good” news to China. If tomorrow, US found a confirmed Covid-19 death in Aug 2019, Pompeo/Trump ilks would demand explanation why didn’t China close down international flight of Wuhan in Aug 2019.

  1408. @Harold Smith

    First of all, doesn’t it seem a little odd to you that Comey was trying to make Clinton look bad during her presidential campaign? For example, why, just a few days before the election would he send a letter to congress about new (and possibly damning) information uncovered regarding the “investigation” into her alleged email improprieties? And being that Comey was apparently violating DOJ rules when he did this, why didn’t Obama stop him? Why didn’t Obama fire him for that matter?

    Whoa. I have been so blind. And Trump fired him. What an ungrateful fucker.

    I am so grateful to you for opening my eyes.

    • Agree: Peter Gent
    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  1409. For those of us who believe in the reverse conspiracy theory that the Deep State actually wanted Trump to win I give you the most humorous confirmation of it:

  1410. thetruth says:

    A US researcher who worked with a Wuhan virology lab gives 4 reasons why a coronavirus leak would be extremely unlikely
    Aylin Woodward
    5/2/2020

    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-coronavirus-did-not-leak-from-wuhan-lab-researcher-2020-4

    [MORE]

    A fringe theory suggests the coronavirus could have leaked from a lab at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China, but there’s no evidence of this.
    One US researcher who has worked with scientists at that Wuhan lab explained to Business Insider why an accidental lab leak is extremely unlikely.
    The high-security lab says it has no record of the novel coronavirus’ genome, and follows strict safety measures.
    It’s far more likely that the virus spilled over naturally from bats, jumping to humans via an intermediary animal host.

    Researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) study infectious diseases, including coronaviruses, and did before the pandemic started. So as questions about how the pandemic started continue to go unanswered, the lab has drawn scrutiny.

    Matthew Pottinger, Trump’s deputy national security adviser, asked intelligence agencies in January to look into the idea of a Wuhan lab leak, The New York Times reported. But CIA officers didn’t find any evidence.

    There’s a reason for that, according to Jonna Mazet, an epidemiologist at the University of California, Davis, who has worked with and trained WIV researchers in the past.
    “I know that we worked together to develop very stringent safety protocol, and it’s highly unlikely this was a lab accident,” she told Business Insider. Here are four reasons why.

    Reason 1: The lab’s samples don’t match the new coronavirus

    The WIV houses China’s only Biosafety-level-4 laboratory, which is one of only a dozen in the world. Scientists study the most dangerous and infectious microbes known to humankind in these types of facilities. Some of the institute’s researchers, including virologist Shi Zhengli, have collected, sampled, and studied coronaviruses that circulate Chinese bats. In 2013, Shi and her collaborators pinpointed the bat population most likely responsible for spreading SARS, in the Shitou Cave near Kunming.

    After her team sequenced the COVID-19 virus, Shi told Scientific American that she quickly checked her laboratory’s record from the past few years to check for accidents, especially during disposal. Then she cross-referenced the new coronavirus’ genome with the genetic information of other bat coronaviruses her team had collected. They didn’t match.

    “That really took a load off my mind,” Shi said told Scientific American, adding, “I had not slept a wink for days.”

    Mazet has met and worked with Shi through PREDICT, a pandemic early-warning program started by the US Agency for International Development. The program has trained staff and funded labs in 30 countries, including the WIV, but President Donald Trump shut down PREDICT last fall.

    “I’ve spoken to her recently,” Mazet said of Shi. “She is absolutely positive that she had never identified this virus prior to the outbreak happening.”

    Mazet added that Shi set up a secure, shared database into which PREDICT members could upload their work for public release.

    Reason 2: The lab implements rigorous safety protocols

    In 2018, US officials raised concerns about safety issues at WIV, according to diplomatic cables obtained by The Washington Post. But Mazet said Shi’s work in the lab and in the field was above reproach.

    “In the field, they wear extreme personal protective equipment, including multiple layers of gloves, eye protection, full body suits, and masks,” she said. (She noted, however, that she has not personally visited the WIV and couldn’t speak to all the research done there.) Samples collected from bats, Mazet added, get immediately split between some vials that contain chemicals that deactivate the virus, and other containers that leave the virus alive.
    All samples are then dunked into liquid nitrogen on the spot, which freezes them, then the vials are disinfected and transported to the lab. There, scientists wearing personal protective equipment (PPE) unload them into a freezer set to minus 80 degrees Celsius.

    When the samples are studied later, researchers only use the deactivated, non-infectious ones, Mazet said, adding that the vials with viable virus are locked down in a special area.

    Reason 3: The coronavirus is the latest in a long line of zoonotic disease outbreaks

    Rather than a leak, the coronavirus is more likely the latest disease to have jumped from an animal host to humans, experts say.

    This type of cross-species hop, called a spillover event, also led to outbreaks of Ebola and SARS. Both of those viruses originated in bats, and genetic research has all but confirmed the same for the new coronavirus — a study published in February found that it shares 96% of its genetic code with coronaviruses circulating in Chinese bat populations.

    Three out of every four emerging infectious diseases come to us from other species; these pathogens are known as zoonotic diseases. The coronavirus is the seventh zoonotic virus to have spilled over into people in the last century.
    The 2009-2010 H1N1 pandemic — swine flu — started in pigs then killed nearly 300,000 people. People have caught bird flus via direct contact with infected poultry. Other pandemic influenza strains, including the 1957 “Asian flu” and the 1968 Hong Kong pandemic, likely started in birds, too.

    And in the last 45 years, at least four epidemics have been traced back to bats.
    Reason 4: Everyday people are more likely to get infected than researchers who wear protection

    The caves and wild habitats in which samples get collected from bats are dangerous places for people, since humans can be exposed to the live viruses circulating in the animals, Mazet said.

    Shi’s researchers navigate those caves in full PPE; but tourists, hunters, poachers, and other people who rely on animals in some capacity for food or trade wander into such places less protected.
    Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance (which managed PREDICT’s relationship with the WIV), told NPR last week that his colleagues are “finding 1 to 7 million people exposed” to zoonotic viruses in Southeast Asia each year.

    “That’s the pathway. It’s just so obvious to all of us working in the field,” he said.
    A study published in March 2019 even predicted that bats would be the source of a new coronavirus outbreak in China. That’s because the majority of coronaviruses — those that affect humans and animals — can be found in China, and many bats “live near humans in China, potentially transmitting viruses to humans and livestock,” the authors said.
    Spillovers will keep happening

    The frequency of spillover events will increase as humans encroach further into wild habitats that house disease-carrying species we haven’t interacted with before, Mazet said. Researching how past spillovers happened and which habitats present the greatest risk for such events helps scientists make predictions about the next pandemic.
    Since 2014, Shi’s group at the WIV has received nearly $600,000 from a multi-million dollar, five-year grant funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases to research the spillover of bat coronaviruses. The grant, which is managed by EcoHealth Alliance, was renewed for another five years in 2019.

    However, after being questioned about that funding at a White House briefing on April 17, President Trump said his administration would “end that grant very quickly.”
    A week later, the National Institutes of Health canceled it.
    Eroding confidence between US and Chinese researchers

    Yuan Zhiming, director of the WIV’s biosafety laboratory, told Reuters that “malicious” claims about the lab had been “pulled out of thin air” and contradicted all available evidence.

    The persistent circulation of the lab-leak theory could impact future scientific cooperation and information sharing between the US and China, according to Mazet.

    “What’s happening sociologically right now is our biggest risk —who’s going to want to work on this if they’re the ones put under a microscope?” Mazet said. “I think the real danger of what’s going on now is that experts like Shi and myself may not be able to keep collaborating to identify these viruses because of government pressures.” Mazet said.

    That would make it harder to discover where the COVID-19 virus came from, as well as to forecast and prepare for the next spillover.
    Mazet added that she worries a blame game could even put lives at risk in the short term.

    “If we point fingers at other nations that have best opportunity to develop a vaccine, why would we expect them to freely share that with us?” Mazet said. “Collaboration is key right now, otherwise you have countries developing things in parallel, and you can’t assume the US is the best

    • Replies: @d dan
  1411. Mr. unz , you make the false premise that america has been in prosperity for past 100+ years , that is a ruse . debt even false debt is not a blessing from heaven. America has been at war for almost its whole history because of the rothschilds .

    Who stands to benefit from said cornavirus ? It certainly isn’t america . From what this poor one sees , it’s china and fake israel , and the people who call themselves jews but are of the synagogue of satan

    i trully wonder if americans concentrated on peace rather than war or serving the jews and freemasons . what would come . America has not known peace in over 250 years .

  1412. thetruth says:
    @d dan

    Before China can answer ANY question, Any question at all, the U.S. will have to answer the question FIRST about those so called ” vaping pneumonia” , and other type of unknown ‘Respiratory outbreak’ happened as early as July 2019! It is so funny that the U.S. will NEVER look themselves in the mirror first, and always victimize themselves, and blaming others. Just like Pompeo said “we lie, we cheat, we steal”!

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/respiratory-outbreak-investigated-retirement-community-54-residents-fall/story?id=64275865
    ‘Respiratory outbreak’ being investigated at retirement community after 54 residents fall ill
    Two have died and 18 were hospitalized in Virginia, officials said.

    and there was another retirement community had similar ‘Respiratory outbreak’ , about a week apart, I cannot find the link. But it is there.

    • Replies: @TT
  1413. thetruth says:
    @Jiminy

    The ONLY reason for China used Hydroxychloroquine for those 5 US soldiers was because they were diagnosed as malaria. It only later becomes clear ONE of the popular symptoms of Covid-19 is malaria-like! But Chinese doctors had NO idea about this when they treated those 5x US soldiers, who possibly went to Wuhan with some ill-minded purpose!

    so you need to invent some other Smarter conspiracy theory against China!!

  1414. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Indeed. In fact the election was looking so close at one point that “deep state” agent Obama had to create a WW3 scare in an effort to nudge some disgruntled Sanders supporters into Trump’s camp.

    Luckily for the “deep state,” the ploy worked, as it was Sanders supporters that gave Trump the win over Clinton in three key states – Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania (where Trump’s margin of victory was smaller than the number of Sanders supporters who voted for him) – which put Trump in the white house.

  1415. @Peripatetic Commenter

    “I am so grateful to you for opening my eyes.”

    You’re welcome. I’m glad I was able to help.

  1416. TT says:
    @denk

    YOu heard that ?
    WHO the turncoat, parrtoing [[[eight nations alliance]]] meme, ‘China has not been forthcoming in its handling of the CV19, they didnt response to our request for a joint investigation’

    Is this WHO official statement or only one US-agent Gauden Galea personal assertion? WHO chief is silent on it. Don’t forget US gov & its pharma giants are withholding 50% WHO funding….directly threatening livelihood of their numerous planted moles, esp WHO rep to China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/495626-china-refuses-who-requests-to-participate-in-coronavirus-investigations?amp

    The World Health Organization (WHO) is complaining publicly that China should allow it to participate in investigations of the origins of the coronavirus.

    “We know that some national investigation is happening but at this stage we have not been invited to join,” Gauden Galea, the WHO’s representative to China, told Sky News in an interview published Friday.

    At least China allowed WHO team in to investigate during its outbreak peak. So China can suggest WHO to also investigate US, UK, EU & India, to scrutinize their policy and handling.

    China could even turn around table by demanding a similar independent WHO source investigation with Chinese participation into US Ft Detrick Lab shutdown, Jan19 EVALI outbreak, etc. and post questions as layout in this comment US trying to avoid:
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/#comment-3865017

    IN NIgeria, a London based [sounds familiar ?] lawyer is leading a campaign to sue China at the ICJ for reparation.
    Several other African countries seem to be following suit.

    It was reported that both US lawsuits are filed by Tel Aviv based lawyers. Texas law suits was filed by U.S. lawyer and conservative activist, Larry Klayman, his Company Buzz Photos and his group Freedom Watch.

    India Adish C. Aggarwala, the Chairperson of All India Bar Association and President of International Council of Jurists was another one Indian case.

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/04/breaking-hilarious-india-accuses-china-of-bio-war-attack-with-cv19-files-court-case/

    So its not surprise some London/ Washington/ Tel Aviv based lawyers will file personal cases in various countries that don’t represent govs official stand just to project like a global action.

    Fact remains that China is up against the world.

    This might be another media warfare similar Obama’s fake SCS saga using kangaroo court of PCA, where West 24/7 msm bombardment make the entire world believe bully China is not obeying PCA=ICJ of UN judgement.

    I hope this cornering of China may force the Panda to bite back by releasing full evidence on US-UK-Oz-Israel are behind this global bioterrorism. That will entail a global action on this evil axis,with China mandatory WMD retaliation.

    Shi’s career, her collaborations with the murikkans and showed her works in CV as the smoking gun, the thought of a ‘set up’ started to haunt me….those commentators sounded like ‘insiders’

    This is highly possible set up, from USAid funding switching to Oz CSIRO funding on Bats cv studies to Chinese scientists. These Chinese scientists are too naive (eager to cozy up with whites) trusting 5lies will be so kind to fund their research for Chinese welfare, when they are actively culling Chinese scientists.

    Read how these setup stories are now slowly unfolding & peddle in 15pges of US dossier to pin China using these Chinese scientists participation:

    Coronavirus NSW: Dossier lays out case against China bat virus program
    https://amp.dailytelegraph.com.au/coronavirus/bombshell-dossier-lays-out-case-against-chinese-bat-virus-program/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60

    China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion.

    The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China.

    It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.

    Key figures of the Wuhan Institute of Virology team, who feature in the government dossier, were either trained or employed in the CSIRO’s Australian Animal Health Laboratory where they conducted foundational research on deadly pathogens in live bats, including SARS, as part of an ongoing partnership between the CSIRO and the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

    US is also blaming China for 6days delay in initial warning. But they failed to mention USNato sit on it since 23Jan2020 Wuhan lockdown, doing nothing while claiming COVID is just another flu until 15Mar2020.

    China’s failure to warn of likely pandemic for 6 key days may have been critical
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/chinas-failure-to-warn-of-likely-pandemic-for-6-key-days-may-have-been-critical/

    Documents show officials knew of potential danger almost a week before telling their public; experts say much of virus’s spread could have been prevented if they’d acted sooner

    This science paper also explained how US gov funded COVID19 development.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340786428_COVID-19_Pandemic_Its_Origin_Implications_and_Treatments

    • Replies: @denk
  1417. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Biden n his son was under attack like a year ago by the reds n Trump.

    That means the reds n trump knew who was going to win the blue primary a year ago.

    As stock traders like to call it, it is priced in bitches. Biden was the appointed winner of the primary from the get go.

  1418. d dan says:
    @thetruth

    “A US researcher who worked with a Wuhan virology lab gives 4 reasons why a coronavirus leak would be extremely unlikely”

    Thanks for the link. The “Wuhan lab leak” theory will almost certainly require some sort of implicit or explicit stereotyping or racist assumptions about Chinese and its system, e.g. Chinese scientists and managers are incompetent, government is corrupted, lack of check-and-balance, lack of conscience and discipline, etc. It also requires assumption on lack of observations by top notch foreign scientists – which your link completely refutes. Finally, it also requires an extraordinary coincident of timing (“accident” happens at the most convenient time).

    See my points in comment #351.

  1419. TT says:
    @thetruth

    EVALI started since Jan2019.
    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/#comment-3865017

    #Jan19
    Over 2,000 hospitalized cases of lung failure pneumonia recorded till date, indicating a wide spread infections. US CDC blamed it on E-cigarette Vaping Associated Lung Injury (EVALI), yet not a single case happen in entire world.
    https://phpa.health.maryland.gov/OEHFP/EH/Pages/VapingIllness.aspx

    Symptoms of Vaping-Associated Lung Injury

    These injuries often seem like pneumonia, but they are not caused by an infectious disease, and they do not improve with antibiotics. Respiratory symptoms reported include: shortness of breath, chest pain, pain on breathing, and cough. Other symptoms reported by many patients include: fever, chills, nausea, weight loss, vomiting, diarrhea, or abdominal pain.

    #30Jun19
    Respiratory illness outbreak at retirement home kills 2 and sickens dozens more in Virginia:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/virginia-retirement-community-respiratory-illness-outbreak/index.html

    #12Jul19
    Second Fairfax county retirement community suffers respiratory llness-outbreak.

    https://wjla.com/news/local/second-fairfax-co-retirement-community-suffers-respiratory-illness-outbreak

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  1420. Precious says:
    @denk

    Syria…
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-flexes-military-might-front-russian-forces-f-35-flight-syria/5709724
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-seeks-set-new-military-base-syria-amid-pandemic/5709489
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/syrian-resistance-us-occupation-escalates/5711186

    Ok, you got me on that one. Trump is still fighting in Syria supporting local powers. But I still got most of what I wanted on Syria, no US invasion and war with Russia in Syria.

    Venezuela….
    https://newint.org/features/2019/02/12/beware-americans-bearing-gifts

    ^Article proves I got what I wanted for Venezuela, which is no war.

    Somalia…
    https://www.sott.net/article/433601-US-military-attacks-hit-all-time-high-in-Somalia-as-Coronavirus-pandemic-continues

    I don’t want war with Somalia either, but Trump hasn’t been able to withdraw from Somalia or Afghanistan yet.

    IRAN…..CHINA…..

    And I am getting what I want with these two nations as well, no invasion of Iran, and no war with China. The days of the USA invading and occupying more nations for the purposes of regime change are over. Trump knows it can’t be done. That is why the brief shooting war with Iran came to a quick end. And China can’t afford to get into a shooting war with the US either. They can’t afford casualties thanks to their one child per family policy of the past.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
    , @denk
  1421. @denk

    There is a clear logical flow to my argument while all you have is continued ad hominem attacks with no refutation. You do know Fauci and NIH are in the middle of this and have been supporting gain of function research on coronavirus at the Wuhan lab for the last five years since it was suspended in the U.S. in 2014. (https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741).

    [MORE]

    The more I learn about Dr. Fauci, (or who pulls his strings) the more he seems to be at the epicenter of all of this along with whoever he was working with at Wuhan. Yes, two studies began in the U.S. in secret about 3 years ago at the behest of the NIH with no external oversight. Any such program would be run by Fauci’s division and could not go forward without his support and approval. So no matter who you blame, Fauci is the common connector. He is also the one driving this country to ruin with his phony models and padded reporting to keep the hysteria alive.

    There is one goal that fits all of this, that connects all the dots. That is the takedown of Donald Trump. If you can’t see that maybe you are also looking forward to the coming death of this country and the freedoms we once knew, since it seem clear that everything possible is being done to accomplish that. DJT is the only thing standing in their way.

    All this belies the fact that simple D3 supplementation would have stopped it all long ago, but no one seems to care despite the evidence and science. Very few people needed to die and no shutdowns were needed. Tell me, who is orchestrating all of this death and civilizational collapse in your mind?

    • Replies: @denk
  1422. utu says:
    @Jiminy

    “five US soldiers” – How do you know they were Americans?

  1423. Precious says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Since his overriding objective is, undoubtedly, re-election, the ineptness of his handling of the Covid 19 crisis is surely inexplicable if your theory is correct. Would you answer this by reference to the early boost he got in the polls? But is that enough to support your theory?

    IMO, Trump has handled the coronavirus crisis very well. I will explain my understanding of the crisis and my reasoning…

    [MORE]

    The fundamental problem of this virus is that it is extremely dangerous to the hospitals in the health care system and the people who need to be in those hospitals. If your doctors and nurses all get infected, then all the patients get infected, and people start dying in large numbers, which is what happened in Italy. That leads us to the next big problem…

    The PPE supplies to keep hospital staff from infecting patients were inadequate. Hospitals and state governments never truly re-stocked after the swine flu of 2009. Production of PPE now comes from foreign suppliers, and the probable reason China silenced the doctors publicizing early warnings was so that they could buy up all available supplies. There also weren’t enough ventilators if large numbers get sick at once.

    Trump and Congress start to become aware of all this in November or December. Pelosi and Schumer get the same briefings as Trump. Slowing down the spread of the virus is just one part of the problem. PPE and ventilator production needs to increase, and there needs to be a distribution system to get those crucial supplies to the cities and states where they are needed. The lockdown means the the restaurant food supply chain jams up, which previously supplied about half of the food to people in the USA. Small businesses are also getting crushed by the lockdown.

    With all of that background, most politicians would announce they need more government power to save us, and then fail. Instead, Trump uses the immense powers a President possesses in a national emergency sparingly. He respects the constitutional restraints on his power by letting the governors of the states decide on their own response, as the federal government provides guidelines from the CDC. Trump went to private industry to build the plan and infrastructure in order to tackle the problems of PPE and ventilator production, he actually had people go in to find ventilators when governors couldn’t even locate where they had stored their ventilators. Jared Kushner has set up a system so ventilators can quickly be transported across the country when a new outbreak is identified.

    Trump is also working with private industry to try to tackle the impending food crisis so we don’t have one supply chain jammed up with food and farmers destroying product while the other supply chain and grocery stores are empty. Whether he pulls it off or not remains to be seen, as will how the economy and small business respond as states opens back up.

    The other thing that impresses me is how Trump promotes methods that aren’t the party line medical system accepted remedies. The medical community is mostly pro-vaccine. Trump promoted hydroxychloroquine which is effective. He promoted an anti-biotic which is effective when the patient has TB. He talked about injecting UV light as disinfectant which is being studied at the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center. I would love to see him do more, but reporters are such morons that when he brought up UV light as a disinfectant they started asking about bleach so I can see why he doesn’t.

    The main criticisms I see that argue Trump performed miserably are:
    1) He wasted time, which I don’t buy. A lot was being done behind the scenes because production of PPE started up in January, which means Trump started kicking things into gear in December. People just can’t see what was done behind the scenes.

    2) Not enough testing. True, but as I said before, testing is not a panacea. We aren’t going to get over 300 million people tested in time under the most ideal conditions. Trump has ramped up testing production so the US is now testing more per capita than any other country, at which point the media just talks about how the US has the most cases.

    3) He played down the virus at his rallies. IMO, that was a strategic necessity. The impeachment case at his trial was weak but it still limited his ability to sound the alarm. And the Democrat strategy of oppose Trump on everything meant that sounding the warning early would get Democrats encouraging people to attend more events and interact more and spread the virus even further…and what Trump needed to do was buy time to get production up and running.

    4) He is allowing things to open back up too soon. Now that we have production for PPE increased and enough supplies, we can respond to outbreaks without the hospital health care system collapsing. The point of staying home wasn’t so we wouldn’t catch the virus, most of us are going to catch it. We accomplished the objective of not overwhelming the hospitals.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1424. Possibly this has already been covered here, but there is a nice recent Youtube video by Dr. Chris Martenson at Peak Prosperity explaining a Medium article by Yuri Deigin “Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research”.
    The bottom line is there is a 12 nucleotide insertion creating a furin polybasic cleavage site in the SARS-CoV-2 virus that does not look natural, is not found in other related viruses, and is unlikely to have resulted from a mutation. This insertion of a furin basic cleavage site has been used in a number of gain-of-function virology experiments to increase infectivity of other coronaviruses in culture experiments, going back to at least 2006. Supposedly this was the type of gain-of-function experiment which scientists were worried about, leading to the moratorium on this potential bioweapon in 2014. SARS-CoV-2 may have been created even before then, but Dr. Martenson makes a nice case that covid-19 may well have resulted from a bioengineered virus in the lab. The release, intentional or accidental or even when, is totally unaddressed, but I highly recommend his video “Coronavirus: Are Our Scientists Lying To Us?”

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  1425. @Precious

    I hadn’t heard the suggestion that China delayed reporting so it could buy up Limited supplies. It will be interesting to discover the truth about early Chinese buying. Have you reliably sourced evidence?

    • Replies: @Precious
  1426. @Precious

    I would rather Trump track down the criminals that are still alive now.

    Because you do not care, the group which ordered the killing is still in power now and covering the truth about MLK, RFK and so on.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  1427. @Precious

    And I am getting what I want with these two nations as well, no invasion of Iran, and no war with China.

    No war with China… there is already an economic and sanitary war with China. Militarily, USA can do little against China. Unless the USA will be ready to see all their carriers sunk and nuclear bombs landing on the major US cities.

    • Replies: @Precious
  1428. The 1949 Communist revolution marked the end of foreign exploitation but also, ironically, the beginning of a China that almost no ‘expert’ in the West had predicted.

    Read: “Quand la Chine s’éveillera… le monde tremblera” published in… 1973.

  1429. @Godfree Roberts

    I’ve never watched Fox News (and Sky News probably twice and not on China).

  1430. @TT

    Wow thanks for the links. Those retirement home illnesses in VA seem suspicious.

  1431. denk says:
    @TT

    Thanks,

    Apparently WHO’s representative in China has gone over the boss head to ‘request’ an ‘invitation’ for it’s ‘international pardners’ [you know who ;-)] to conduct a joint investigation in Wuhan.
    BUt I dont see the boss prostesting either.

    Why’r [[[they]]] so bent on going into Wuhan ?
    what happen if……
    they already know what to look for and where, conveniently laid out by an asset in there. ?

    MInd you, some anon had actually insinuated on exactly such a scenario, a FUKUS entrapment aided by an asset in Wuhan.
    He sounded like a white hat who smell a rat, but the post ended ominously,
    YOu’ fucked, consider yourself lucky that we didnt nuke you back to stone age’ !
    Sounds like sarcasim, but perhaps its another message hidden in plain sight ???

    • Replies: @TT
  1432. denk says:
    @Peter Gent

    Jeeze, am I knackered, trying to educate dumped down murikkans since 1999 !

    Why dont your ilks read up on Ron Unz, Godfree, Ramanoff, Old Microbiogists etc etc and the many intelligent posters here before spouting your craps here ?

    Too much B.S. , too little time,.

    Anyway….

    I see that we both agree on an ‘enemy action’.
    fine.
    Next step, whodunnit ?

    Detective 101….

    1] Who’s the motive ?
    2] Who’s the means ?
    3] Who benefits ?
    4] Who’s a long history of hostilities against China ? ?
    5] Who’s a long history of orchestrating regime change on foreign leaders, including many attempts on China. ?
    6] Who’s a long history of black ops, FF, with dozens of those targeting China ?
    7] Who’s a long history of using bio/chem weapons on others, including China ?
    8] Who’s been retching up its attacks on China since 2018 ?

    It all points to we know who

    Now your turn, you say fukus is the ‘victim’, [cough cough] [1]

    show us whodunnit ?

    [1]
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/america-the-victim-are-enemies-lining-up-for-revenge-in-the-wake-of-the-coronavirus/

  1433. denk says:
    @PandaAtWar

    PIlger

    murikkans are like mushrooms,
    kept in the dark and fed bullshit all day long

  1434. utu says:

    Chinese coronavirus researcher, 37, at University of Pittsburgh Medical Center who was on the verge of releasing ‘very significant findings’ is shot and killed in a murder-suicide
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8290203/Mystery-coronavirus-researcher-37-verge-significant-findings-killed-murder-suicide.html

    Mr. Hao Gu kills Dr Bing Liu and then Mr. Hao Gu kills himself. Dr Bing Liu was married so it was unlikely it was a crime of passion. Who was Mr. Hao Gu? When did he arrive from China? Was he activated? Or is he a patsy?

    Who is going to get the mileage form this murder? Who will blame whom first? It is really irrelevant whether Dr Bing Liu worked on anything of importance to use this event in the propaganda war. The fact that it is on the top of the Daily News front page today seems to indicate that the event is already being used.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  1435. Precious says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I hadn’t heard the suggestion that China delayed reporting so it could buy up Limited supplies. It will be interesting to discover the truth about early Chinese buying. Have you reliably sourced evidence?

    This doctor was forced to retract his early warning.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/world/asia/chinese-doctor-Li-Wenliang-coronavirus.html

    This article charts the purchase of PPE by China up through February.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/

  1436. Precious says:
    @Olivier1973

    No war with China… there is already an economic and sanitary war with China.

    China has been at war with the United States economically since at least 1996, when they bankrolled Bill Clinton’s re-election campaign. The only change in 2017 is POTUS started playing for the home team.

    • Replies: @denk
  1437. denk says:
    @Precious

    Ok,
    Trump is still fighting in Syria supporting local powers. But I still got most of what I wanted on Syria, no US invasion and war with Russia in Syria.

    If the Syrian army is in US ‘helping’ Texan separatists fight the Federal govt.

    Would you say, ‘thats fine with me,
    not an actual invasion’ ?

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/31/middleeast/assad-interview-us-intl/index.html

    What about Iraq ?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/27/iraq-trump-visit-us-troops-lawmakers-demand-leave

    • Replies: @Precious
  1438. @utu

    Woah, I need to follow this closely. Could be huge.

  1439. denk says:
    @Precious

    China has been at war with the United States economically since at least 1996, when they bankrolled Bill Clinton’s re-election campaign

    Do you know whats an economic war like ?

    Think the made in USA SAR1 in 2003,
    The gang bang on Huawei,
    The tarriff war on China,
    The CV19…..

  1440. denk says:

    Hmmm,
    FUKUSAustralia gunning for a sojourn in the Wuhan ‘crime scene’. ?
    Where’d you find The beneficiary of a murder case in charge of its investigation , where else but in rule based western democrazy ?
    What could go wrong ?

    Where did I hear that one before ?

    Bali bombing, 2002

    No group stepped forward to take public responsibility. Immediately after the bombing, the FBI, the Australian Secret Service and British secret police swooped in to the bomb site and took charge of the investigation,. The Indonesian authorities and the Balinese police were indignant but powerless to intervene. The first people on the scene almost immediately were the FBI, despite it being a 17-hour journey from the USA. Australian police arrived within 24 hours.

    https://terroronthetube.co.uk/related-articles/london-and-bali-bombs-a-comparison/

    https://crazzfiles.com/bali-was-nuked/

  1441. @denk

    You don’t really expect to be taken seriously when you post insane links do you?

  1442. Early Hydroxychloroquine Is Associated with an Increase of Survival in COVID-19 Patients: An Observational Study

    https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202005.0057/v1

    • Replies: @anon
  1443. @FB

    Based on the Smith’s comment, I am 100% sure to say that he is Vietnamese. However, he is also pretty strange to me:

    1. He is seem pretty racist again Russian for some reason.

    2. He seem has personally hatred to Mr. Saker.

    3. He is pretty strange a race realism, this is something I almost never see it from any single Vietnamese (well, I am a race realism too but like “for fun”).

    [MORE]

    “His pro-US attitude” is in fact is that is actually happening to Vietnamese people right now especially the 80s, 90s generation in Vietnam, I afraid. I suspect that he is pretty young based on the way he argued with me in Vietnamese Language (He does not even dare to translate his conversation with me like I do). Many Vietnamese, ironically even the older ones, seem for US war crime again Vietnam, and they don’t even US currently war crime right now.

    I understand that Vietnamese government want to be pragmatic and neutral to keep Vietnam from war as much as they can. However, they also failed to educated people (especially the young ones) how to be proud about their motherland combine the corruption of Vietnamese government. Vietnamese right has a very SERIOUSLY PROBLEM, INFERIORITY COMPLEX.

    Let me tell you guys one thing: I found out many Vietnamese immigrate to other countries not because they hate their own country but because they afraid wars (being conscripted). This is pretty complexity mattered so I afraid I cannot explained to you guys in a few sentences.

    However, what he said about Chinese Imperialism nature is 100% true. The reason his opinion on Chinese Imperialism is discredited so easily not because his reason is unreasonable or ignorant but because his racist attitude in the comment section. If you just read his opinion in the ‘non-racist’ version, you will find out that his opinion on China Imperialism is pretty accurate and reasonable.

    I sometimes even think that he is a Chinese Agent Troll (Agent provocateur) was sent here to discredited all the Vietnamese opinion on China imperialism action in the South East Sea.

    By the way about our Vietnamese opinion on China, our ancestors has a saying on China like that: “Chinese is good people if pig know how to climb the tree”. Based on Chinese imperialism action right now, I suggest you guys should not put any trust on the country like China.

    I find our that for some reason, many people here seem believe that majority of Vietnamese have good opinion on China but no, I will be brutal honest, we have very bad opinion on China especially right now.

  1444. anon[296] • Disclaimer says:

    They’re moving fast.

    Researcher ‘on verge of very significant’ coronavirus findings shot to death

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/researcher-on-verge-of-very-significant-coronavirus-findings-shot-to-death/ar-BB13Fcfd

  1445. aandrews says:

    PlanDemic, a film about the global plan to take control of our lives, liberty, health & freedom.


    An interesting short film that reveals Anthony Fauci as “the Bernie Madoff of science.”

    • Replies: @aandrews
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1446. Alfred says:
    @Jiminy

    That will no doubt eventually happen once China’s got it hands on African ore, but it won’t happen overnight.

    It seems you are well-informed.

    An Australian businessman wanted to get the African iron ore to market. His plane mysteriously crashed in Africa and he was killed. Strange how these things only happen to nice people. :

    [MORE]
    (

    Rescuers on Monday found the wreckage of a crashed plane carrying Australian mining tycoon Ken Talbot and 10 other foreigners but there were no survivors, Cameroon’s communications minister said.

    The plane carrying the entire board of the Sundance Resources mining company went missing over thick jungle on Saturday on a flight from Yaounde, Cameroon’s capital, to Yangadou in Congo-Brazzaville.

    Mining executives confirmed dead in African plane crash (2010)

  1447. Precious says:
    @denk

    If the Syrian army is in US ‘helping’ Texan separatists fight the Federal govt. Would you say, ‘thats fine with me, not an actual invasion’ ?

    I am talking about Trump resisting the pressure to expand US presence in Syria and engage with Russia directly. Other than one attack in 2018 (I am not counting the missile strike of 2017), Trump has avoided fighting with Russia in Syria. But you were right, he hasn’t withdrawn from Syria.

    What about Iraq ?

    What about it? Not Trump’s fault his predecessors invaded dozens of countries. I don’t want us to be in any of those countries. I am not saying I am getting everything I want, but with Trump I am getting quite a bit.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @denk
  1448. @denk

    You’re quite correct. Ignore the ‘Buzzard of Id’ (a buzzard is a bird which flies backwards, btw)

    Before the illegal (without UN resolutions) and immoral (based on the lie of WMD’s) invasion and occupation of the free & independent nation of Iraq, most opinion polls at the time revealed Australians were 74% against going to war again in the Mideast.

    Self-confessed “Friend of Israel” Australian PM and war criminal John Howard authorized a terror attack on (mostly, but not only) Aussies in a popular holiday destination, Bali, in the October before the Iraq invasion in the following March. We know this as the only two nations that didn’t change their travel advisories warning their citizens was Australia & its colonial master the UK – even the USA changed theirs! Consequently more than 202 people were killed, incl. 88 Australians, and after locals, the next highest number were Britishers. A further 209 people were injured.

    As a result, the argument became we have to fight ‘them’ (al Qaeda, at the time) over there – before they come over here. After the BB the opinion polls swing around to 50 – 50% – and Howard had the consent he was seeking.

    This is by no means the only time Howard sacrificed human life to further his political ambitions – he pulled a smaller stunt with the 2004 bombing of Australia’s Jakaeta Embassy to help him win that year’s Federal election.

    If you read the 1996 report ‘A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm which was criticized for advocating an aggressive policy for the removal of Iraq’s Saddam Hussein (2003) and the use of proxy warfare to contain of Syria (2011 – present) – you can see how far in advance these regime change operations in the service of creating Eretz Y’israel (aka Greater Israel) are planned.

    “On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram [Abraham] and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the wadi [R. Nile] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates [Syria-Iraq] – Genesis 15:18

    This is what all the US wars in the Mideast (as well as the oil of course) have always been about.

    • Replies: @denk
  1449. @denk

    Having said all that, Bali wasn’t “nuked” as your second link suggests. However, a military grade plastic explosive, similar to a British plastic explosive, was used.

    The fact that there were two explosions in Bali on the day (in case one fails) is the dead-set giveaway, same as when the Cabal mines ships, or most famously, the controlled demolitions of the twin towers in NYC on September 11th.

    And same as assassinations. There’s always two assassins (unknown to each other). See RFK’s assassination (6.6.1968) and more recently, Pakistani presidential candidate Benazir Bhutto’s assassination (in 2007, just 3 months after she exposed that bin Laden was killed in 1999).

    • Replies: @denk
  1450. denk says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Then there’s that ‘terrorists attack ‘ at
    the British consulate in Istanbul…..

    The link is dead, webarchive is kaput,
    so I post the entire article from my own archive.

    —————————————

    Al-Qaeda are the US govts greatest ally
    by Rizvan Anwar

    [MORE]

    Let me start by saying that I am NOT a conspiracy theorist. I don’t think Russia were involved in the JFK assassination, or that Area 51 is home to aliens. I am a rational person, who I like to believe, thinks logically.

    So lets look at recent events in a logical way.

    On November 20th 2003, London was gearing up for a huge protest against the visit of President Bush. The media had been hyping up the protests, as the largest protests ‘ever seen against a head of State’. More people were expected to attend than had ever protested against Saddam, or Mugabe.

    However, Bush seemed unnerved. He would smile when asked about the protests and he said it didn’t affect him at all. I couldn’t understand this. This man was being told he was the most hated man on the planet, and yet he didn’t seem to mind. Almost as if he ‘knew’ something no-one else did.

    The news of Michael Jacksons sex scandals were given 2nd rate coverage in light of the protests, which would culminate in a ceremonious ‘toppling’ of Bush’s effigy, to replicate the staged toppling of Saddams in Baghdad.

    I was thinking all the while, unless the world should end, there is no way Bush can divert the worlds media attention from this. If anything, there was nothing he could do, to avoid the British public from seeing that his war against terror was a phoney war. I was hoping the worlds media would broadcast the protests and images of the toppling effigy would be beamed throughout the world. Bush’s calmness unnerved me.

    It just wasn’t logical.

    On 20th November, I woke up expecting the news to be full of the protests. But it wasn’t.

    Someone had bombed the British consulate and HQ of the HSBC bank in Istanbul.

    At 09:10 GMT the first blast had gone off outside the HSBC HQ, and 2 minutes later, the second bomb went off. At 09:18 GMT, news channels in Britain were stating ‘Al-Qaeda has bombed the British consulate’.

    I didn’t understand. I watched the tv, to see how they had already figured out within 6 minutes that Al-Qaeda had done this. I searched frantically and all I could find were statements being released ‘the bombings had all the hallmarks of Al-Qaeda’. I wonder even now, what these ‘hallmarks’ are.

    I was at work, and I joked to a friend, that soon an e-mail would arrive at some Arab newspaper, where Al-Qaeda would accept responsibility. By lunchtime, a Turkish newspaper had received that e-mail. To this day, Al-Qaeda hasn’t accepted responsibility for 9-11, ‘their crowning achievement’. The faked CIA tape of a fake Bin Ladin, gloating about 9-11, has funnily stopped being shown on tv, since it was ripped to shreds by all who saw it. Al-Qaeda hasn’t owned up to any of the terrorist acts that it is blamed of. Not until the perpetrators are in custody, do any admissions come out.

    The Bali bombings, the first WTC, the Karachi hotel bombings, the Kandahar hijacking, 9-11, nothing. Al-Qaeda just don’t do that. They don’t admit they have done anything. Well not until recently, well..not until the US bombed Afghanistan and ‘destroyed Al-Qaeda’s communications capability’. Not until, Al-Qaeda’s network has been dismantled, and the cells under close watch, and all communications between Bin Ladin and his followers, is now being made via messenger boys on donkeys. When Khalid Sheikh was arrested, he even said that Al Qaeda was no longer using e-mails or telephones to keep in touch, as it was too risky, and the CIA had tapped everything.

    So I don’t understand how these messenger boys send the e-mails on their donkeys.

    It just isn’t logical.

    As the crowds gathered for the beginning of the protests, Bush and Blair gave a televised address to the world. They re-affirmed the war on terror, and cited the Istanbul bombings as an example of the kind of terror they were trying to fight.

    Bush seemed to have almost memorised what to say, through days of practice. He condemned the acts and in his now familiar stage voice told the invasion on Iraq, was part of the fight against terrorism. I didn’t know Saddam was part of Al-Qaeda until recently. Actually, I don’t think Saddam knew he was part of Al Qaeda until recently.

    The news networks all over the world were showing the picturing of bloodied faces, and the carnage in Istanbul. There was a small side mention of the 150,000 protestors who had marched through London, and toppled the effigy of Bush. But nothing more.

    I sat there and watched Bush’s interview again. The smile, the confidence. It was just perfect.

    If ever there was a time that the US and UK needed an attack to occur against BRITISH interests, it was well.at about 09:10 GMT on 20 November 2003.

    Many commentators have said that the 9-11 attacks happened at the right time for the US. And I think it is even more clear today that the Istanbul attacks have happened at just the right time for Bush and Blair.

    Either Al-Qaeda doesn’t know what it is doing, or this wasn’t Al Qaeda. Al-Qaeda want the world to see the evil that Bush and Blair are doing. And the protests would have done that. There was no need to bomb Istanbul. The only, and reiterate ONLY people to benefit from the bombings are Bush and Blair. It diverted attention from the protests, to the ‘terrorists’.

    I wish I had terrorists like that on my side. The kind that bomb the UN in Baghdad, the day after the UN say that US forces should leave Iraq. The kind that bomb a Bali nightclub, the week 250,000 Australians took to the streets to protest the war. The kind that bomb a Riyadh compound full of Arabs, when Saudi Arabian citizens are beginning to become increasingly vociferous in their condemnation of the Iraq invasion and occupation.

    Since 9-11, and some say including 9-11, Al Qaeda has practically done everything the US govt would ask its CIA to do. They have killed muslims. They have killed their European supporters. They have timed each bombing to maximise the amount of criticism they will receive and minimise the support for their actions. Is that the actions of the ‘biggest threat to mankind, freedom and democracy’ ? Logic tells me, that it isn’t Al-Qaeda at all.

    Now tell me, what does logic tell you?

    Does Al Qaeda Exist?

    BBC: Israel ‘faked al-Qaeda presence’

  1451. TT says:
    @denk

    WHO boss is easily hijacked by powerful US-pharma, just as US appointed UN chief. He was forced to declare unprecedented Emergency on 1Feb2020 on merely 80 global COVID deaths to allow US & gangs take excuse isolate China globally.

    This not only killed China economy instantly, but also disrupted all its supply and emergency needs of medical during crisis peak.

    The US war funded GOF nCov research in Wuhan Lab with many West scientists(agents) direct involvement are perfect for recruiting assets and planting entrapment. Just need one Lab asset to pop up in US Embassy and start reading CIA script to redeem his rewards.

    There are no lack of such paid Chinese freedom lover. My Chinese friend told me one of his relative working in China secretive weapon research, flee to US and was rewarded handsomely.

    • Replies: @denk
  1452. Seraphim says:
    @Precious

    Trump’s fault is that he does not decamp from the countries invaded.

    • Agree: AnonFromTN
    • Replies: @Precious
  1453. denk says:
    @TT

    There was this TsingHwa genius who further her study in US, for here doc thesis, she proudly publicized her decoding of China’s Beidou encryption, to loud applaud from her murikkan masters.

    This is just the tip of an iceberg,.

    We all know how HK has been infiltrated with trojans and patsies, the situation in mainland could be 1000 times worse.

    Just the other day, a private citizen who suggested counter suing the US govt for reparation, was harangued in the social media , I heard he was even forced to move house after his home was vandalized.
    WTF !

    There’s an VAST army of fifth columns in China, from the very top, to the academia , the elites, right down to the grass roots.
    The thought of this send a cold down my spine,

    • Replies: @TT
  1454. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    Early Hydroxychloroquine Is Associated with an Increase of Survival…

    Yes, it is. Meanwhile, the remdesivir [that shortens recovery time from 15 to 11 days] has NOT yet been shown to have any effect on mortality. I.E., if you were going to recover anyway, you may do so a little sooner, but if you were going to die, sayonara.

    The French doctor who advocates Hydroxychloroquine has criticized US trials for only using it too late. Maybe the remdesovir could also save lives, if introduced early. Who knows.

  1455. denk says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Who
    What
    When
    Why
    How

    How [[[they]]] execute a FF is usually very technical and controversial, re the debate among truthers on 911.

    [MORE]

    I tend to concentrate on the first four items.

    These anomalies cry out for attention…

    Removal of onsite evidences, throwing the debris into the sea , shades of 911 ~!

    Evacuation of US personnels,.

    Missing flight log,

    Indon prez open defiance to the US,

    Ex prez unequivocal declaration of a FF

    The [[[five eyes]]] spooks as first res-ponders and investigators.

    Then of course, the ‘terrorist attack’ occurred at just the right time

    ———————————————
    Re Joe Viall and mini nuke,
    Some say he’s disinfo agent.

    For example, this comment in the first
    link…

    Written by Andrew S. MacGregor about 9 years ago.Reply
    To rely on the comments of Joe Vialls is extremely dangerous. Joe Vialls was MI5/6 to the day he died. It was Joe Vialls who admitted that he was the gunman that shot P/W Const Fletcher in 1984 at the siege of the Libyan Embassy, when Peter Power was the O.C. of the PFCP, (police forward Command Post)

    Joe Vialls was also the leader of a psyops terror attack in Tasmania on the 28th April 1996 called the Port Arthur Massacre, which occurred about 6 weeks after the Dunblane Massacre.

    It was Joe’s modus operandi to start with the truth and then destroy that truth by accompanying that truth with complete balderdash. However, Joe Vialls has always claimed that both the Bali bomb and the cause of the Aceh tsunami were ‘mini-nukes, and once you wrap your brains around that you realise that ‘mini-nukes’ is an euphemism for an ‘electro-magnetic-scalar weapon’.

    There was though a video made by an Australian, which gave the best clues to the weapon used in this attack, that was that all the electrical equipment went dead just before the explosion. This is an indicator that the weapon used was an electo-magnetic scalor weapon based on the theories of Nicoli Tesla. In the earthquakes that hit China just prior to the Olympic games in 2008, there were the ‘spectrum lights’ in the sky just prior to the earthquake which is an indicator that an ‘electro-magnetic scalar weapon’ is about to be unleashed.

    The Australian army explosives expert as you call him was Captain Rodney Damon Cocks. It is my belief that Cocks initiated the main Kuta blast. Captain Cocks was also involved with the murder of his superior,the head of the UN Delegation in Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello. Cocks was also woreking with the UN in Afghanistan when an ‘Australian’ accented ‘terrorist fighter from Afghanistan was interviewed on the Al Jezzera network. He had a similar build to Cocks.

    Again, Washington had an ‘advanced’ warning on the Bali bombings, which is a major clue that the event was planned by those in Washington.

    The last clue was that the Australian Federal Police went and took over the investigation and were able to find within that crater a clue to the detonation device, part of a mobile telephone.

    The Bali bombing was used by the Australian Government to push through draconian laws, and push for a commitment to the ‘Wars against Terror’.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1456. TT says:
    @denk

    Some sharing:

    https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1257845037485850624/photo/1

    Time for ‘post-mortem’ on China’s response to Covid-19 will come later, but questions need answering – UK defense chief
    https://www.rt.com/news/487692-uk-defense-chief-china/

    UK defense chief Wallace said “Time for ‘post-mortem’ on China’s response to Covid-19 will come later, but Beijing needs to be “open and transparent about what it learnt; its shortcomings, but also its successes.”

    A UK defense chief warning China on pandemic, not Health Minister. So UK gunboats are going up to Yangtze river again to justify Opium is good for Chinese, HK is Brits territory.

    Stigma or precaution? DoD memo lists Covid-19 as ‘permanently disqualifying’ for survivors seeking to join army
    https://www.rt.com/usa/487984-coronavirus-us-military-ban/

    Did USNato screw up themselves? USNato Herd Immunity program req 80% infected population with antibody.

    But they forgot adding that HIV Trojan virus to nCov in their China-Iran attack, will permanent damage immune body also. With impotentgreatcNow USNato will need recruit more ISIS as mercenary.

    It looks like USNato was over confident on “Herd Immunity” using mild strains “A” with ready Vaccines & treatment drugs to make big sales.

    The anglosaxons mission wanted to give China a cold again with Chinese ethnic targeted SARS2.0 strain “B”, expect like 2003 SARS only killing Chinese leaving West unscathed. But Chinese learned their lesson. They stop it with total shutdown, return an increase Gain strain “C”.

    The mutated “C” strain is not responding to Herd Immunity & ready vaccines & antiviral drugs. Hence the USNato panick U-turn on mid /Mar.

    Whether USNato claimed COVID as lab made or natural will trace to strain “A” originate in US, then China is not responsible. So they are trying to setup Wuhan Lab leaking conspiracy instead.

    London’s 4,000-bed Nightingale hospital to be SHUT after treating just 51 Covid-19 patients
    https://www.rt.com/uk/487725-london-nightingale-hospital-suspended-covid19/

    4,000 beds temporary hospital only treated 51 patients. Another 8 have similar situation. So where did 191,000 infected go to? Yet UK has no overwhelmed cases, PPE shortage..

    Liquor shops open in India… & partially close again as customers rush there ignoring social distancing rules (VIDEOS)
    https://www.rt.com/news/487706-india-liquor-stores-reopened/

    Secret of how India remains the lowest in COVID testing, infected and deaths per million. Not Modi RSS Swamy’s magic cure cow urine, but bootleg alcohol. Work better than Trumpet bleach too.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Jazman
  1457. @denk

    Thanks for that. Yes, I agree, I knew about Port Arthur too – but didn’t post on that, as its much too controversial for some people to accept. There’s always three tell-tale signs of a FF:
    1. no heads roll
    2. twin attacks / two assassins (in case one fails)
    3. change in Standard Operating Procedure (SOP),

    More recently there’s been a 4th element introduced – a drill run to the exact specifications: same time, same day, same location, to magnify the confusion and chaos to terrorize the general public more and confuse eyewitnesses (in any future court case /inquiry) and first responders.

    • Replies: @denk
  1458. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    Hate is fine. Not like you are trying to hide it. Making up some retarded morality, trying to rationalize your hate.

    Honest question, do you think mainland Vietnam is in any danger of an invasion by China? Why or why Not? Are all the hatred stemming from the recent spat in South China sea? Or since the 70s war?

    I am leaving out the islands because China will 100% want them.

  1459. utu says:

    FYI: Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development
    https://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf/RRS/Rockefeller%20Foundation.pdf
    This report was produced by The Rockefeller Foundation and Global Business Network (May 2010)

    Scenario Narratives: LOCK STEP, A world of tighter top-down government control and more authoritarian leadership, with limited innovation and growing citizen pushback (page 18)

    In 2012, the pandemic that the world had been anticipating for years finally hit.

    Even the most pandemic-prepared nations were quickly overwhelmed when the virus streaked around the world, infecting nearly 20 percent of the global population and killing 8 million in just seven months, the majority of them healthy young adults. (NOTE: IFR=0.51%) The pandemic also had a deadly effect on economies: international mobility of both people and goods screeched to a halt, debilitating industries like tourism and breaking global supply chains. Even locally, normally bustling shops and office buildings sat empty for months, devoid of both employees and customers.

    The United States’s initial policy of “strongly discouraging” citizens from flying proved deadly in its leniency, accelerating the spread of the virus not just within the U.S. but across borders. However, a few countries did fare better—China in particular. The Chinese government’s quick imposition and enforcement of mandatory quarantine for all citizens, as well as its instant and near-hermetic sealing off of all borders, saved millions of lives, stopping the spread of the virus far earlier than in other countries and enabling a swifter post- pandemic recovery.

    At first, the notion of a more controlled world gained wide acceptance and approval. Citizens willingly gave up some of their sovereignty…In developed countries, this heightened oversight took many forms: biometric IDs for all citizens… In many developed countries, enforced cooperation with a suite of new regulations and agreements slowly but steadily restored both order and, importantly, economic growth.

    There were other downsides, as the rise of virulent nationalism created new hazards…
    ____________________
    Not sure what to think about it. But my first reaction was that as always the reality is constructed with money or at least there is an attempt to do it. This is about the illusion of control that the powerful want to have. You motivate people to think about things with money. My second reaction was that the well educated and well paid people who created this report did not do much better than what brain storming groups of smart high school kids could do if properly motivated. So I am not impressed with the report and forecasting ability of that think tank. This is the world of intelelctual pretense and make belief experts. Just give us money and fancy titles and important name of the institution and we will perpetuate the pretense for as long as the money last.

  1460. denk says:
    @TT

    A UK defense chief warning China on pandemic, not Health Minister. So UK gunboats are going up to Yangtze river again to justify Opium is good for Chinese, HK is Brits territory.

    This year is the year of Gengzi,
    庚子年 !

    Remember 1900 ?
    Another 庚子年 !

    Must be another coincidence !

    hehe
    hehhehe

  1461. @Astuteobservor II

    Hate is fine. Not like you are trying to hide it. Making up some retarded morality, trying to rationalize your hate.

    I don’t hide my hate on China or rationalize my hate on China. If you read my previous comment, you will see that I am in fact hate and distrust China so much and I don’t hide anything. However, my hatred on China is hatred on Chinese Government, not Chinese people. My comment on Smith guys here is more like about how he let his hatred go around so uncontrollable and his hatred to Russian and Mr. Saker is absolutely unreasonable.

    Honest question, do you think mainland Vietnam is in any danger of an invasion by China? Why or why Not? Are all the hatred stemming from the recent spat in South China sea? Or since the 70s war?

    Yes, China wanted to invaded Vietnam but right now, based their imperialism action on South China Sea, I suspect that they will try to invaded Vietnam from sea, not from land. Why they want to invaded Vietnam, I will try my best to simplified the reason:

    [MORE]

    1. China ideology has an unhealthy obsession on claiming Vietnam back to ‘Mother China’. They are in fact being driven by the ideology. Do not underestimate the power of ideology, it can drive people to do the insane thing. I found out that the believe “Vietnamese is Chinese” is very visible in many Chinese website like Sohu.

    2. China “win-win” politics is in fact the myth. The marine road, that China is pushing it, can only successful if China install the puppet government in South East Asian or 5th column power at least. If you look around South East Asia countries, you will find out that the 5th column army in South East Asia is very visible. Vietnam is a only country in South East Asia does not have Chinese 5th column country since the Le Duan Brutal Anti-Chinese policy. This is reason why China consider Vietnam as thorn or rock need to be get rid soon as possible to fulfill their own imperialism agenda. China will never have other countries equal to them, they will try to make other countries is depended on them or below to them. Vietnam will never let China become the part of their own imperial games in South China Sea.

    3Vietnamese hatred on China is already happened since the ancient times. China-Vietnam relationship is only truly good since the 1940 until 1970 and the hatred rise up again in 1979. Since 1990s, Vietnam-China had normalized the relationship to each other and it is only second truly peaceful time to both countries until 2011. Since 2014, China began rammed our fisher boats, push the 9-dash line one again (look at the 9 dash-line you see that is unreasonable), and Vietnamese Government began to teach Vietnamese young ones about the border war 1979, 1980s border conflict bet ween Vietnam and China, the existence of Le Duan. Meanwhile, China themselves began to teach Chinese young ones about the 1979 border war but ironically all of the thing they found is not something to be proud but something to be shamed.

    By the way, I will make some comment on the China dash line:

    1. Many pro-China here keep saying that the dash-line is made by Chiang Kai-shek. I truly don’t understand the argument. Are the people try to tell me that the 9-dash line thing is an anti-China conspiracy or they want to prove this is proof to prove that the whole South China Sea is belong to China since Chiang Kai-shek? I don’t get it. All I see right now is China is pushing the dash line thing the dash line is unreasonable.

    2. Pham Van Dong letter to Zhou En-lai mentions NOTHING about Paracel and Spratly Islands. I found out that many pro-China here is tricked by Chinese government to believe that Pham Van Dong letter is a proof to prove that Vietnam had given the islands to China because the pro-China don’t speak Vietnamese language. If people can read Vietnamese, they will agree with me that the Pham Van Dong letter is bullshit.

    I know my answer will not satisfy what you need to know but I hope you can but my answer into ‘consideration box’.

  1462. denk says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Yes.

    Then there’s Mh370,

    The heading is ironic.
    It almost looks like BBC is in snark mode..
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26649690

    ‘aiding’

    With FBI ‘aiding’ investigation, no wonder the Malaysian police chief lamented..
    ‘I doubt we’d ever get to the bottom of this ‘ !

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1463. denk says:
    @Precious

    dude,

    Candidate Trump

    I wanna bring back the troops from all over the world

    So WTF is stopping CiC Trump doing exactly that ???

    • Replies: @Precious
  1464. Precious says:
    @Seraphim

    Trump’s fault is that he does not decamp from the countries invaded.

    Still plenty of time to get it done.

  1465. Precious says:
    @denk

    Candidate Trump I wanna bring back the troops from all over the world

    So WTF is stopping CiC Trump doing exactly that ???

    The Democrats, back-stabbing Republicans in Congress, Spygate coup plotters, military bureaucrats, hostile anti-Trumpers in the Pentagon, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, Fox, Israel, Iraqi militant factions, Iranian militant factions, Afghan warlords, Somali warlords, neocons, North Korean militant factions loyal to China, Russia, Syrian militant factions, Kurds, Turks, weapons manufacturers and their lobbyists, and the GCC.

    Have you noticed Trump doesn’t get a lot of cooperation?

  1466. denk says:
    @Precious

    Have you noticed Trump doesn’t get a lot of cooperation?

    Sigh
    Those’r all theater for your consumption,

    The troops are in Syria , Iraq, OKinawa, Jeju………cuz Trump’s boss, [[[deep state]]] want them there.

    I rest my case.

    • Agree: Biff, Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Precious
  1467. @Precious

    Dude, surely you are aware that President Trump was the Deep State’s other candidate in case?

    Even though they thought she would never lose, they had to have a backup.

    It makes sense in the febrile minds of those infected with TDS.

  1468. Precious says:
    @denk

    Those’r all theater for your consumption,The troops are in Syria , Iraq, OKinawa, Jeju………cuz Trump’s boss, [[[deep state]]] want them there. I rest my case.

    Wrong, Trump’s boss is not the Deep State. If he was doing what they wanted, they wouldn’t have framed Flynn…which took three years to undo, and they wouldn’t have impeached Trump. I know kabuki theater, I watched it in DC for decades. This is no longer theater.

  1469. @denk

    Yes, I also have investigated MH370 pretty thoroughly

    [MORE]

    1. I happen to know for a fact that the plane didn’t crash & the passengers were alive – but can’t provide evidence for that;
    2. The 20 Chinese nationals were involved in an industrial espionage operation and were returning to Beijing with plans for their hi-tech innovation. Whether that was done with the Chinese government’s knowledge, or not, I can’t tell. But, if so, it would explain why China didn’t make an official complaint;
    3. Freescale Semiconductors’ majority(?)-owner was the Carlyle Group (with its ex-CIA Papa Bush & Dubya Bush connections). Given their ‘connections’, it would not have been too difficult for the Bush Family crime syndicate to arrange ‘a little mishap’ for the plane to go missing;
    4. I also heard that Victoria Nuland’s (remember her from the US sponsored Ukro-NAZI coup?) husband Robert Kagan (co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century, PNAC & Council on Foreign Relations, CFR, member) had been on Malaysia Airlines’ Board of Directors. So for MA’s operations management to be sabotaged (or, at least silenced) from within – may not have been too difficult;
    5. I suspect MA was a prime target for zionist retribution, as the former PM of Malaysia, Dr Mahathir Mohamad had been a very vocal critic criticizing zionist ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. So, doing the airline (and the country itself, as KL is a hub for S-E Asia) reputational damage, could well have been a form of punishment;
    6. As a client state of the USA & a Five Eyes (FVEY) member, Australia would’ve wilfully sabotaged any genuine efforts to find the plane – following orders, of course;
    7. The debris found on Réunion Is. off E. Africa by one American scout and then taken to France (Boeing is a US corporation, remember?) for identification – was a total red herring;
    8. Two reasons why the search was intentionally botched was:
    i) to discover what types of Measurement and Signature Intelligence (MASINT) technology the Chinese had already developed (if the Chinese wanted their nationals & hi-tech plans back); and
    ii) of course, because the FVEY partners knew where the plane was all along and simply ‘went through the motions’

    In sum, I still believe that in all probability:

    i) after the plane’s communication systems were switched off, the plane was remotely piloted using the Uninterruptible Auto-Pilot System (UAPS) that we’ve had since the 1970’s & 80’s hijackings, and flown to a US base, e.g. Diego Garcia
    ii) the Chinese nationals were probably interrogated & executed; and
    iii) all the other passengers and crew have been renditioned to one of many of the USA’s so-called ‘black spots’ around the world,
    iv) the hi-tech innovation that was made at FS never got transferred or the US would have ‘jumped up and down’ about it, and
    v) all the BS about the pilot’s home flight-simulator and his unhappy marital affairs were just cover stories. Cover stories are used to control explanations. See this excellent short article: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/05/25/cover-stories-used-control-explanations/

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Erebus
  1470. @Precious

    Trump is a very, very smart man – nobody gets to where he is in life if they’re a dumbo.

    I don’t know what age you are, but you’re not reading the play on it! As I’ve said to you before, Trump uses the Dems, the Deep State, bureaucracy, etc, etc – as a cover for not doing this or not doing that. It’s clever politics! That’s not to say that Trump doesn’t love his country – but he knows there’s only so much he can do given that real power resides elsewhere.

    In addition, it allows him to ‘play the victim‘ which he’ll milk to the nth degree all the way up to the election in 6 months. The economy will come roaring back in the SEPT quarter, with the data to be announced in OCT – and he’ll continue to demonize China – all of which will help him win the 2020 election.

    Meanwhile, look at who the Dems have picked: a 78 y.o. serial sex pest with family ties to the corrupt Neo-NAZI regime in Ukraine – with no real chance of winning, (notice I say real?) Its the same script as when Kerry was picked as Democratic nominee in the 2004 election against ‘Dubya’ Bush and when the Republicans picked the dead-in-the-water candidate Romney to go up against O’bomber.

    Going out on a limb here, I’d say in Wall St boardrooms – its already been decided!

    • Replies: @Alden
  1471. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    On my first visit to Vietnam a few years ago our guide took us to a large covered market which, he said, he wouldn’t allow his wife to shop at because it was (ethnic) Chinese owned. So I believe you!

  1472. denk says:
    @Patagonia Man

    I seem to remember those electronic engineers were all ethnic Chinese , either US or Malaysian citizens working for FS.
    So not too sure about the Chinese spooks part.
    Whatever, it sure looks like a hit to prevent top chip technology falling into Beijing’s hand.

    Besides,
    even a hardcore ‘coincidence theorist’ would be hard put to swallow this….
    Three lost airliners, one near miss, another copter exploded in mid air, all within six months stretch !

    [MORE]

    Mh370 ‘disappeared’

    Mh17 shot down over UKranie,

    AirAsia Flight QZ8501 crashed into the Java Sea off Borneo shortly after take-off on 28 December 2014 with no survivors.

    Jun 12, 2015 – Malaysia Airlines Jet Makes Emergency Landing in Melbourne After Reports of Engine Fire. By Alissa Greenberg. June 12, 2015 2:59 AM …

    Apr 4, 2015 – The helicopter went down in a rubber plantation in the town of Semenyih, killing everyone on board, including Najib Razak’s principal private secretary, Azlin Alias. … A witness told Malaysia’s official Bernama news agency that the helicopter “exploded in mid-air” during heavy rain.

    I heard MA nearly went kaput after that !

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1473. denk says:
    @aandrews

    OT !

    A glimpse in Chinese rural country life…

    • Replies: @aandrews
  1474. Erebus says:
    @Patagonia Man

    1. I happen to know for a fact that the plane didn’t crash & the passengers were alive – but can’t provide evidence for that;

    It was all over Chinese TV on March 8 & 9 – a couple dozen distressed relatives saying they had phoned their onboard relatives after being told the plane was missing and got a ringing signal (rather than an “Out of the Service Area” message).

    If that was so, it meant the phones had connected to a local cellular network and that in turn meant that China Mobile/Telecom knew where the phones were within a few hundred meters. The protocols between international networks would verify the location so roaming charges could begin the instant they went live. The relatives made a lot of noise demanding that China Mobile/Telecom reveal where that was.

    Then a day or 2 later, they disappeared off the airwaves and weren’t heard from again.

    • Thanks: GazaPlanet
  1475. @Ron Unz

    I trust you are well Ron. Overworked no doubt which would explain your not responding for over a month in the permanent Bugs and Suggestions thread to which you directed your faithful conscientious readers.
    Now may I raise the priority level a little for a Doxxing that I reported there some time ago. Also the failure of the Email function for forwarding Comments, but that is secondary.

  1476. @aandrews

    I read (much of) your later demolition of Dr Mikovits’s documentary film so I am wondering about your

    “An interesting short film that reveals Anthony Fauci as “the Bernie Madoff of science.””

    Are you intending to give her some credit?

    • Replies: @aandrews
  1477. aandrews says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I’m agnostic. When I came across the video I found it “an interesting short film”. I’ve been intrigued why Bill Gates, of all people, is so involved with the coronavirus thing. The Occam’s Razor explanation is, there’s a buttload of money-to-be-made involved somewhere. On Twitter I’ve followed Laurel Coons, a former NIH researcher, for a long time and going through my Twitter feeds, I noticed that she and her other followers (who are mostly science types) were ragging PlanDemic and Judy Mikovits, one of whom posted the Reddit link that rebutted/debunked Mikovits and the documentary. I thought it a good idea to attach the link to my initial post.

    There could be and probably are portions of the documentary that contain valid information. Her thoughts on the Bayh–Dole Act could very well be dead-on. So are her thoughts on the money to be made with vaccines. Her thoughts on Fauci may contain a lot of truthiness also. Her story of her paper being held up for publication and then poached sounds completely plausible (after all, it really wasn’t hers, right?). Laurel Coons evidently left NIH because it was such a toxic work environment. I’d say the CDC is similar. The entire content of the film, though, should be taken with a grain of salt and scrutinized and synthesized carefully, something everyone here already knows, I think it’s safe to assume.

    I’m sorry if my post caused you any consternation and apologize abjectly if it did. I just thought it was an interesting video interview.

    • Replies: @aandrews
    , @anon
  1478. aandrews says:
    @aandrews

    Last paragraph, strike that first sentence. That was shitty and I don’t mean to be an ass.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1479. @Erebus

    ONE interpretation of that information would be that the “group of relatives ” (real or pretended) were amongst the many Chinese who didn’t trust their governing class and wanted to try and evoke a response that might reveal something.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1480. @aandrews

    If you remain as sensitively civilised on UR threads you may be eaten alive by the jackals, vultures and hyenas who like very fresh meat😎

    • Replies: @aandrews
  1481. aandrews says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “… jackals, vultures and hyenas….”

    Who would that be? You and your Hasbara buddies? What a laugh. You should walk outside and get some fresh desert air.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1482. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @aandrews

    “I’ve been intrigued why Bill Gates, of all people, is so involved with the coronavirus thing.”

    The Occam’s Razor answer is his decades long involvement in public health issues. But that’s a “well, Duh” explanation. Real question, how do yu notknow that?

    • Replies: @aandrews
    , @aandrews
  1483. @aandrews

    Oh dear I was wrong about your civilised manners. And the “hasbara” insult on UR is generally associated with defective cognitive ability aka stupidity.

    • Replies: @aandrews
  1484. aandrews says:
    @anon

    I was only vaguely aware of Gate’s philanthropic impulses and figured they mainly concerned such things as mosquito nets and clean water in tropical third-world countries, primary used as ameliorative tax strategy, kinda like the good works of the Clinton Foundation. I had no idea he was also into epidemiology and virology and the fast-tracking of vaccine development. It seems strange, but maybe he’s just a really smart guy.

    • Troll: GazaPlanet
  1485. aandrews says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    So you consider that an insult. I don’t blame ya:)

  1486. @denk

    “Whatever, it sure looks like a hit to prevent top chip technology falling into Beijing’s hand.”

    Yes that was my point. My use of “industrial espionage” was much too strong.

    Thanks for that. Good work connecting all those dots. It was definitely intended to do MA irreparable brand damage – and almost succeeded.

    And I think we can add to that, The 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) ongoing political scandal. In 2015, Malaysia’s then-PM Najib Razak was accused of channeling over RM 2.67 billion (~US$700 million) from the government-run strategic development company, to his personal accounts, triggering widespread criticism among Malaysians, with many calling for his resignation – incl. Dr Mahathir Mohamad who eventually defeated Razak at the 2018 Election.

    Before that of course, was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis (AFC) that zionist George Soros precipitated by exploiting the over-valued currencies of South and East Asian nations – throwing ~400 million people back into poverty. While Indonesia, South Korea and Thailand were the nations most affected by the crisis, Hong Kong, Laos, Malaysia and the Philippines were also badly impacted.

    It seems any one / any country who speaks truth to power by daring to question/criticize the zionist entity’s ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people, in its pursuit of Eretz Y’israel (Greater Israel) has retribution wrought upon it.

    Cheers

    • Thanks: denk
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1487. @Erebus

    Good point. I was aware of that but thought there was a technical explanation for it. The ‘conspiracy of silence’ indicates there’s embarrassment / guilt on the part of all the actors in the tragedy.

    Idk? Maybe this had something to do with it …
    8 February 2017 Intel, in Show of Support for Trump, Announces Factory in Arizona

    “While most technology manufacturing, such as computers and smartphones, has moved overseas, American factories still account for about one-seventh of global chip production and produce many of the most valuable computer chips, including Intel’s flagship processors. Seventy-six chip plants are scattered across the United States, from South Portland, Me., to Newport Beach, Calif.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/technology/trump-intel-chip-factory-arizona.html

  1488. @Ron Unz

    Ron, your point about the Intelligence Community’s “precognition” of a virus illness before the Chinese government acknowledged it was perhaps the most striking part of your articles raising suspicion of bio warfare. May I suggest that you look at another line of investigation open to those who claim no special knowledge of virology or biowarfare.

    It seems that the way intelligence could have led to that 3 January report to the White House that was ignored may be described here:

    https://hillnotes.ca/2020/04/28/open-source-intelligence-in-pandemic-early-warning/

    and

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1532046416300351

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1489. @Anonymous

    Every generation becomes more media savvy and sophisticated. After all it is a while since you could count on a jury believing even the most adamant evidence that someone was a witch. I wonder if, in these days of social media and smartphones, people won’t actually react against those who display rock solid certainty because they will have come across so many of them.

  1490. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Ron, your point about the Intelligence Community’s “precognition” of a virus illness before the Chinese government acknowledged it was perhaps the most striking part of your articles raising suspicion of bio warfare. May I suggest that you look at another line of investigation open to those who claim no special knowledge of virology or biowarfare.

    Sure, analyzing social media and things like that can certainly be used as sources of information about a possible epidemic as it is occurring. In fact, I saw somewhere that population movements in Wuhan gave clear evidence of something very serious taking place in January.

    The problem is that there is zero evidence for such a situation back in November, or indications that the Chinese government were aware of a serious health crisis before early January. Surely the Chinese government would pay attention to their own social media in a major city with a population of 11M like Wuhan.

    Yet our own DIA was distributed an intelligence report in late November describing a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak taking place in Wuhan, apparently being aware of the situation more than a month before anyone in the Chinese government. That strikes me as *extraordinarily* suspicious…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1491. @Astuteobservor II

    Yes, I see what you’re saying, and from the POV of being world hegemon and only remaining superpower, you’re quite correct, but I was writing from the POV of the USA being a peaceful nation:
    • blessed by its natural geography, and
    • bordered by 2 non-threatening, neighboring nation-states.

    If the American people were allowed to choose via their electoral process – it would be:
    • for the public good, e.g., the quality of their hospitals, schools, Senior Citizens’ centers, baby healthcare clinics, libraries, etc and
    • in their domestic national interest e.g., transport infrastructure: roads, bridges, hi-speed rail, airport terminals, etc, etc,

    to be a peaceful nation.

    I’ve never really thought of my country of birth as being that well organized – until I came to the USA. For a nation that’s supposed to be the center of Empire, I’m genuinely shocked at how their own people are treated (‘unless you’ve got money, you’re a nobody’) and the state of decaying public infrastructure.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  1492. @Ron Unz

    Indeed, quite suspicious enough to make it important to keep on picking at. It goes without saying that the Chinese tap into social media but it is surely possible that they are not using it to pick up disease outbreaks in China. It seems possible indeed that the US is not doing it domestically.

    Another speculative possibility is that military athletes returning from Wuhan were the source of test results which set off alarms in the specialist agency.

    But, as you say, extraordinarily suspicious, so, please, DO keep on digging!
    PS I was alerted to the ABC report by an email from the Times of Israel which led me to ask one of the MPs I know best whether Australia got the heads-up or only NATO and Israel. No answer on that. Perhaps NATO will be the best source for another leak….

  1493. COVID-19 almost surely started with the accidental release of a virus, possibly genetically engineered from the Wuhan lab. Just google “Wuhan gain of function” and prepare to be appalled. Labs around the world (including here!) were essentially taking SARS-family viruses and making them more deadly, or at least catching. They aren’t supposed to get out. One did, I speculate. Also China’s ruthless crackdown early in the pandemic is a huge red flag. Curious how these factors are seldom mentioned in news accounts, even those that deal with the lab. Finally, COVID-19 is remarkably similar in symptoms to the virus(es) these labs were working on. This is all public information, but you have to dig for it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Seraphim
  1494. @Patagonia Man

    I think the expression that “unless you got money, you are a nobody” is true everywhere in the world. Not just in the USA.

    The only key difference in China is money cannot go over the govt.

    I think that is a very, very important difference.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1495. aandrews says:
    @anon

    Podcast: Whitney Webb on the Rise of the Biotech Industrial Complex Under COVID-19
    19:00 Vaccine discussion begins.
    26:12 Gates.
    30:00 Other drugs slipped into vaccines.
    32:19 Gates and Epstein.

  1496. @Astuteobservor II

    Totally agree with that.

    That’s what makes me laugh about all these Americans on this site calling out the CCP, yet being totally ignorant of the fact that alien, or in the very least dual-citizen, billionaires have been able to insert themselves above political authority in the US of A.

  1497. Even more precognition!

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2020/05/plandemic.html

    An excerpt from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_Aid,_Relief,_and_Economic_Security_Act

    The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, also known as the CARES Act, is a law meant to address the economic fallout of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States. In its original form, it was introduced in the United States Congress as H.R. 748 by Joe Courtney (D-CT) on January 24, 2019 although the bill was amended before it was passed.

    Also at Infogalactic: https://infogalactic.com/info/Coronavirus_Aid,_Relief,_and_Economic_Security_Act

    (In case Wikipedia disappears the January 2019 date.)

  1498. Hans says:

    Ron, Dr. Carol Baker has it all figured out:

    “So I have the solution. Every study published in the last five years, when you look at vaccine refusers. I’m not talking about…hesitance, most of them we can talk into coming to terms. But refusers. We’ll just get rid of all the whites in the United States,” Baker said at the “Achieving Childhood Vaccine Success in the U.S.” expert panel discussion sponsored by the National Meningitis Association in New York City on May 9, 2016. “Guess who wants to get vaccinated the most? Immigrants.” – Dr. Carol Baker,

    [MORE]

    Her she is with her maw open –

    In 2009, Obama administration Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius appointed Baker to chair the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

  1499. Alden says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Probably at least several million prosperous real estate construction families in America. Some of their sons do well, some don’t and a few soar as Trump did. Like every construction guy his age he greatly benefited from massive population growth due to immigration.

    But he’s quite a guy whatever you think of him or how much you hate him.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1500. @aandrews

    If you are trying to improve the sales rank of her book, you are doing nowhere near as well as Google and Facebook!

    Hey, Google, your censorship of ‘Plandemic’ only turned its author’s book into #1 bestseller. It’s the Streisand effect, stupid!

    • Replies: @aandrews
  1501. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    US Intelligence early knowledge . . . access to medical reports from near a lab they were probably very interested in

    OR, with extreme plausibility, that U.S. Intelligence was monitoring public reports of the beginnings of flu-like symptoms in the Wuhan area, and most tellingly, COULD SURMISE, due to deep insider knowledge, that the larger pattern emerging was one of pandemic, mere days after the emergence of sporadic cases, and way ahead of the Wuhan medical authorities.

    The only reasonable explanation for said suspiciously quick insight would be . . . that the United States had had a direct hand in introducing the virus themselves!.

    In effect, an act of war, a Biological Pearl Harbor, perpetrated by the United States against the People’s Republic.

  1502. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gaius Gracchus

    There are thousands of wet markets in southern China and SE Asia, but only the one a short walk from the Wuhan Institute of Virology allegedly was the source

    The Wuhan lab is not a “short walk” from the wet market, it is 8 miles/12.9 kilometers away. That’s not something you cover on foot casually, even if you regularly walk in your home town.

    If something is 8 miles away, it may as well be ten times that, as you would need to use mechanical conveyance to cover both distances.

    Let us be done, finally and conclusively, with this obvious lie of the Wuhan Institute of Virology being a short distance from the market.

  1503. aandrews says:
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    I simply posted a link to her book (Jesus Christ!), before I knew (I think even before) it was a “big deal”. Besides, she’s already ♫on the cover of the RollingStone♫ And if I’m going to help, I want a cut! (And before you say she’s not actually on the cover of the RollingStone, RollingStone really doesn’t have a cover anymore.)

  1504. utu says:

    SARS-CoV-2 is well adapted for humans. What does this mean for re-emergence?
    Shing Hei Zhan, Benjamin E. Deverman, Yujia Alina Chan

    Two authors with: Stanley Center for Psychiatric Research, Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, Cambridge, MA
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1.full.pdf

    “Our observations suggest that by the time SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in late 2019, it was already pre-adapted to human transmission to an extent similar to late epidemic SARS-CoV. However, no precursors or branches of evolution stemming from a less human-adapted SARS-CoV-2-like virus have been detected. ”

    “…and examine the environmental samples from the Wuhan Huanan seafood market. Importantly, the market samples are genetically identical to human SARS-CoV-2 isolates and were therefore most likely from human sources.”

    • Replies: @idrankwhat
  1505. @utu

    That’s an interesting paper. If the virus has no evolutionary predecessors in humans or animals, this supports the idea that it was an engineered bio-weapon.

    • Replies: @utu
  1506. utu says:
    @idrankwhat

    “…this supports the idea that it was an engineered bio-weapon…” – Yes, and it may suggest that Shi Zhengli was engaging in some cover up, alibi [for whom?] constructing when she published her January 23, 2020 paper:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.22.914952v2.full

    “…on January 23, Shi Zhengli released a paper indicating that CoV2 is 96% identical to RaTG13, a strain which her laboratory had previously isolated from Yunnan bats in 2013. However, outside of her lab, no one knew about that strain until January 2020.” – Yuri Deigin, medium.com

    The fact she revealed RaTG13 as her deus ex machina is somewhat odd, that RaTG13 which was sequenced and analyzed was not published and not cataloged soon after its discovery in 2013 is, I would think, strange. And supposedly there is no samples of RaTG13 in the lab. All they have is its sequence in the computer, though, this perhaps might be normal for lab procedures, which I know nothing about.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Harold Smith
    , @Erebus
  1507. @Alden

    I don’t hate Trump at all – and I don’t know how you can construe my comment thus, I’m merely making the observation. I stand by prediction: Trump will play the COVID-19 scare and the demonization of China – for all its worth and be reelected in 5 & 1/2 months time. You’ll see! COVID is a fantastic opportunity for the President – and if you don’t know what I mean by that, you need to brush up on well known political stratagems such as the October Surprise, for example.

    While we’re on the subject, remember these quotes:

    “In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.” – Franklin D Roosevelt

    “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” – Henry Kissinger

    “The way to win elections, is scare the dumb people.” – Karl Rove, Senior Advisor to ‘Dubya’ Bush

    [MORE]

    My concern for the people of the US is if they believe:
    1. they’re being given a real choice from selecting an option from a list of candidates, or even worse
    2. they can make change to government policies via the electoral system,
    then they’re sadly mistaken.

    The issues that politicians campaign on these days are what is called pluto-populism – issues like:
    – abortion,
    – identity politics,
    – recreational drug legalization,
    – gay marriage,
    – LGBT rights,
    – transgenderism,
    – black rights,
    ad nauseum.

    These issues are promulgated in the media (~90% of which is owned by 6 corporations, btw) to deliberately distract voters from the real issues that impact their lives:

    • the inequality of wealth, which actually acts a drag on economic growth (as measured by GDP),
    • tax evasion/minimization by the rich which unfairly shifts the tax burden more and more on to lower-and-middle-income families,
    • the suppression of real (i.e., as adjusted for inflation) wages which have barely increased since the 1980s, and
    • the hacking up (reduction) of the social security safety net which was designed to help keep people participating in the economy if they fell on hard times.

    These are all Far Right (Neocorporatist, aka Fascist) policies.

    You’ve even forgot your own recent history! The United States of Amnesia and allies fought the Second World War to defeat Fascism – and for the last 40 years or so, you’ve been getting it back – by stealth!

    The problem when discussing why the USA is in such rapid decline is called the liberal/conservative binary-thinking two-step, i.e., “its a Two-Party system”, see

    which is to polarize the people of the US and to distract regular Americans from noticing what’s going down right under their noses.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1508. Erebus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The fact they were on Chinese TV means they were either genuine (likely as the earliest broadcasts were from the Arrivals area at Beijing airport within a couple of hours of the flt’s disappearance), or that they were planted by the Chinese govt (to evoke a response from whoever may have hi-jacked/destroyed it). FWIW, the behaviour of the relatives looked to be quite genuine at the time of the initial broadcasts, and likewise on the follow-ups as they formed a group with spokesman when they were also to seen in print media.

    The likelihood of dissident Chinese being given such prominence on national media approaches nil.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1509. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    You may not realize how significant 4% is in genetics. Humans and chimpanzees share at least 96% of their DNA. (Some studies say 99%.)

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tiny-genetic-differences-between-humans-and-other-primates-pervade-the-genome/

    ….chimps and bonobos in particular take pride of place as our nearest living relatives, sharing approximately 99 percent of our DNA, with gorillas trailing at 98 percent.

  1510. utu says:

    May 13: Israeli officials said the message relayed during Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s hours-long visit included a very specific political warning – Israel must stop any action that strengthens the Chinese Communist Party, even if that means canceling projects already planned.
    https://breakingdefense.com/2020/05/us-to-israel-no-more-chinese-deals-pompeos-flying-visit/

    May 17: China to Send Team to Investigate Death of Ambassador to Israel
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-china-to-send-team-to-investigate-death-of-ambassador-to-israel-1.8851513

  1511. @AnonFromTN

    Really good study showing that the “inserts” were Pangolin and not from human design and that this occurred naturally through recombination rather than mutation.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.939207v1.full.pdf

    [H]ere we present evidence that nCoV-2019 likely arose from yet another recombined coronavirus in an intermediate host.A dataset describing the viral diversity in Malayan pangolins3yielded a coronavirus genome that shares 89% nucleotide (Figure 1A and 1B) and 98% amino acid (Figure 1C) identity across the same RBM segment with nCoV-2019.Additionally, the RaTG13 genome only shares one out of five key amino acids involved in receptor binding motif2,whereas the pangolin coronavirus shares all five key residues (Figure 1C). It therefore appears that the RBM in nCoV-2019 was introduced during a recombination event between the strain of coronavirus found in the pangolin and RaTG13. Given the heavy selective pressure under which the RBM is constrained, it is unlikely that RaTG13 acquired the mutations found in the pangolin coronavirus genome through random chance.We posit that the homology at the RBM between nCoV-2019 and a pangolin coronavirus may have arisen from a recombination event based on sequence analysis presented herein.

  1512. @Michael888

    It may not be explainable by mutation but it can be explained by recombination with the pangolin corona virus which has all of the residues necessary.

    See my post at 1543.

  1513. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ben the Layabout

    Also China’s ruthless crackdown early in the pandemic is a huge red flag.

    China’s extreme measures against the virus very early on is a powerful indicator, but not in the way you are suggesting.

    To many observers abroad, most of them non-Chinese, it was clear that the Chinese considered Covid19 to to be a Biological Warfare attack directed, probably by the United States and its allies, against China.

    It was a BioWarfare Pearl Harbor, an unprovoked attack, out of the blue, but this time it was America who was the clear aggressor.

    TRUTH will out!

    • Agree: Harold Smith
    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  1514. @utu

    “Yes, and it may suggest that Shi Zhengli was engaging in some cover up, alibi [for whom?] constructing when she published her January 23, 2020 paper:”

    It may also suggest that China is trying to give the U.S. “government” a face-saving way out.

    • Agree: utu
  1515. I stopped reading at “undercount”

  1516. @Anonymous

    No. People here have no concept of how recombinant viral mutations occur which are especially concerning with corona viruses. Two corona viruses get in the same cell and swap viral pieces and they can make significant mutations. These mutations are much more likely to be major changes than when mutuations occur through non-perfect replication of the virus. Non-perfect replications usually cause the virus to weaken. Recombinant mutations are capable of strengthening the virus significantly.

    There have been many mutations of the Covid 19 caused by non-perfect replication and there has been one mutation of this virus that was recombinant and that was in Belgium. Belgium happens to have the highest death rate in the world. But fortunately this recombinant mutation has not spread out of the local area.

    Covid 19 was a recombinant mutation of a bat virus with a panglolin virus. See post 1543. It was not a human designed mutation.

  1517. Erebus says:
    @utu

    It seems there’s quite a bit of covering up going on.

    Two young, “rock star” researchers in computational biology and genomics research have recently died in barely plausibly deniable circumstances.

    One them founded the Galaxy Project, which offered a cloud-based system offering “… an open platform that aims to make computational biology accessible to scientists, mostly those who are involved in genomics research, a major field of study when it comes to the development of drugs and vaccines.”, and the other was on the cusp of announcing a “major breakthrough” regarding CoV-SARS-2.

    Many researchers and research groups such as NCBI and Nextstrain have decried the lack of available data on SARS-2, saying that GISAID is “siloing” data contributed by international researchers.

    The financial stakes are high, of course but I’d warrant that the political stakes are even higher.

    • Thanks: Iris
  1518. @Erebus

    Yes, it seems more likely that it was an attempt to provoke the letting slip of some evidence of something other than the ordinarily unusual. I trust you are not giving the time of day to that nutter Patagonia Man (aka PTG Mann) and his cavalier ways with facts.

  1519. @Patagonia Man

    More exposure to the Patagonian’s free range factoids flavoured with Israel obsession. I refer to
    “Zionist George Soros”. Try Googling “is George Soros a Zionist?” and have an extended educational browse.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1520. xws says:

    Amazing how many folk have grabbed on to and swallowed the mainstream narrative hook line and sinker, that ‘this is obviously China’s fault’ and that ‘China lied’, ‘bat soup’ etc., a staggering 180° compared to the Epstein story or countless others from the last few months let alone years. I guess mostly through general confirmation bias acting upon years and years of force-fed Yellow Peril propaganda that China = communist = bad.

    I have been following the discussions here for a while now and it’s somewhat a breath of fresh air to see people actually questioning and looking into the far more plausible alternatives that not only better match previous track records but have far more likely motivations behind them.

    I’m almost entirely convinced that this has America’s grubby hands all over it – from development and gain of function research all the way through to the release. I also think it’s been in planning for a long time and many elements and ideas have already been planted into the minds of people (so that those predictions could come true later). However, I am not so sure that the timing was intentional. Many have speculated that it being Chinese New Year was the ideal time to release it due to all the mass travel, yet one can also take the approach that this was the least opportune time. One that was most beneficial to China’s dealing with it. Chinese New Year, everything is closed down. People do not go out and inter-mingle. Everyone already has good food stocks at home in preparation for the holiday. Businesses, shops, restaurants will all be closed anyway, and other than the couple of days of travel, everyone will be at home socially isolated with family. Pretty much most of this worked very well in China’s favour. Had it been a couple of months earlier or later it would have been far more costly and likely spread much more wildly through China from typical business travel, daily commuting, work and heavier social contact.

    Assuming that this did not come from the Wuhan lab, it is quite possible that it was an accidental release in the US – no doubt attributing to the early and worse-than-normal flu season, quite possibly those VALI clusters, and quite possibly a reason for the Fort Detrick closure. Being a far more spread out population which enjoys personal space and that drives everywhere rather than taking public transportation the spread and emergence of clusters would undoubtedly be slow and previously were just limited to places such as a few care homes. CDC made quite a few health advice changes and they were also advertising for Quarantine Managers back in November last year. Perhaps they then saw the opportunity to kick it over to China during the military games, which seemed like an ideal option given that it shared the location with the Wuhan Lab. I suspect however, that this was not their intended target and that they would have far preferred Shanghai or Shenzhen. If this is the case, then likely some of their plans and setup were likely scuppered and there was a good deal of ad-libbing and uncertainty, potentially including misplaced assets and some interdepartmental confusion, especially as China picked up on and dealt with it far more efficiently than pretty much anyone would have expected or predicted.

    The timing doesn’t seem exactly great on the US side either, and also caused a rather abrupt end to their shenanigans in HK (not that they were really winning anything there other than foreign support through the western coverage of it). About the only thing the timing worked well for, was in aiding the collapse of the EU.

    The US seems to be highly insistent on provoking conflict, especially in the South China Sea, their ‘Pivot to Asia’ plans, and countless military bases encircling China. I’m also sure they have a decent backup FF should China not rise to all the current baiting – perhaps deliberately hitting their own electrical grid – there’s been plenty of setup in the media already for something like this.

    I suppose the widely propagated ‘China bad’ narrative is now somewhat essential as the US needs public support equivalent to, if not greater than, post 9-11 for any heavy anti-China action. Even just imposing sanctions and heavy tariffs etc. will hit the West financially – more so given the current looming depression and possible food shortages. Military engagement will certainly not go in US favour and will likely only be limited to a few naval engagements anything over that could well be world-ending, but the US war machine needs a big bad foe, and I’m pretty sure many are considering a major war as a strategy for the looming financial collapse.

    We’ve already seen the US quitting the UN Human Rights council, blocking a UN global ceasefire resolution, what else will they pull out of or block in preparation for them to just do what it wants to regardless of what the rest of the world thinks, though no doubt the UK will still follow along in tow though, and be left to mop up whatever mess, if any, is left – as usual.

    Incidentally, since the earlier stages of the outbreak, I’ve had the constant impression that the WHO has been caught in an awkward position, especially given their often reticent attitude in sharing information and the tardiness of any advice given. Most consider this due to them being in the pocket of China, but it strikes me that, having poured over so much data, they might themselves have a good idea about the likely origin and appreciate the danger of allowing any hint of suspicion of US involvement to be detected – knowing the furore that would be certainly ensue, so instead take the more diplomatic option and simply try to point out that China did actually do an exemplary and highly expedient job of things, and hope that others bring evidence forward instead. Anyone else get a similar reading from their body language at press conferences etc.?

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  1521. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:

    Ron, you may be right that the USA was behind the release of CV. It is outside of my expertise. I can look at a building collapse at freefall speed and say that something stinks to high heaven, but in this? It’s beyond me.

    Even if that is so, China deliberately allowed the rest of the world to be infected by not grounding flights out of the country. China was even angry at Australia for imposing a travel ban. How dare Australia try to protect their country!

    https://indaily.com.au/news/2020/02/14/china-scolds-australia-as-unis-grapple-with-virus-travel-ban/

    If it is a bioweapon and was released by the US, maybe turnabout is fair play. However, I don’t think it is being seen as that around the rest of the world, of which the USA is only one country. The long game in this was not “depress foreign economies so that you can buy up their assets on the cheap”. No, it is “avoid being seen to create a new Pearl Harbor by deliberately infecting the world”. It was the wrong move.

    It reminds me of Suvorov’s lecture where he shows Khrushchev looking across the river in 1939 and says “Let the Germans make all the crimes, we will liberate Europe later, the more crimes they create it’s better for us, because the whole Europe will ask for liberation!”

    Ok, in any case, to add insult to injury, rather than let countries outside of China have their precious, meager supplies of PPE, the daigou rounded it all up, everywhere, to ship to China.

    https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/90-tonnes-of-supplies-shipped-to-china/3983282/

    China also uses its diaspora population to spy on other countries, buy up their assets, buy politicians and basically take over their countries slowly by immigration. They are militarily expanding in South East Asia with their island building. Their BRI is a threat to US hegemony. But… it’s a long way to all the resources they require. And they lack expeditionary forces like the US has.

    I think if you are in the situation of the USA, a military attack is out of the question. Thus an organized, multilateral economic starvation of China is the only option. If you look at the McCollum memo, it may rhyme somewhat with today’s situation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo

    [MORE]

    A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore
    B. Make an arrangement with the Netherlands for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies
    C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek
    D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore
    E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient
    F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific[,] in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands
    G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil
    H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire

    One might extract and search/replace with some edits:

    C. Give all possible aid to the Japanese government of Shinzō Abe
    G. Insist that (OPEC and others) refuse to grant Chinese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil
    H. Impose very high tariffs on all U.S. trade with China, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the 5 Eyes (Anglosphere).

    Of course, during this time, the Japanese got more and more concerned over what the US was doing and they bombed Pearl Harbor, which did not really impact the US war effort but served to stoke the US people into a rage. (And conveniently the carriers were away at the time.)

    Another thing that happened was the internment of Japanese people in the USA. It would take a fair bit of propaganda to move the needle from “racism is teh bad” to “the Chinks had it coming”. Maybe that or some form of deportation is also on the cards in future. Stranger things have happened.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1522. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I forgot to mention the important bit is 45 minutes in in the Suvorov video. The whole thing is worth watching though.

    I also forgot to note in the above that the Chinese acted in January to shut down internal travel and lock down the country. They knew how serious it was… but it was fine to infect the rest of the world!

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
    , @Erebus
  1523. Mr. Lucky says:

    All Covid 19 numbers are a lie.

    Everyone who goes to a hospital is diagnosed with Covid 19, with or without a test.

    Covid 19 tests have a 50% accuracy rate.

    Every Covid 19 diagnosis gets the hospital and additional $15,000 from the Government.

    Every death in the US is being attributed to Covid 19, regardless of the actual cause of death.

    This is a global coup by the 1%.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  1524. Mr. Lucky says:
    @aandrews

    You are either a complete fool or a shill for Big Pharma.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  1525. @Wizard of Oz

    …. ahhh yes, UR’s serial dissembler and (((tribe))) member, ol’ OzWiz is at it again!!!

    He knows both Google founders Larry Page & Sergey Brin are zionist jews – pressed into service to control the narrative (and hence the consciousness) of humankind – but uses Google as a search engine anyways!

    … and then thinks this is being objective! You gotta laugh!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  1526. @Anonymous

    You’re allowing yourself to be brainwashed/programmed/conditioned by US mainstream media – 90% of which is owned by just 6 corporations. The control of a corporation only requires a majority on a board of directors of 12, i.e., 6 and a chairperson. I cite this stat to show how it takes such a ridiculously low no. of individuals to control what the vast majority of Americans believe and Zionist jews are expert at controlling the Overton Window, i.e, window of discourse.

    “He who controls the narrative, controls the consciousness”

    How the coronavirus compares to SARS, swine flu, Zika, and other epidemics
    [quote] “The coronavirus outbreak is more severe than the 2009 outbreak of swine flu [found in pigs in 4 US states]. That illness infected between 700 million and 1.4 billion people worldwide but only had a mortality rate of 0.02%.
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-compared-to-sars-swine-flu-mers-zika-2020-3

    Just so you know SARS -CoV2 has a mortality rate of 0.04% as has been adequately shown, using CDC data, on this, UR, website. In other words, its yet another pretext, aka false flag.

    Also just so you know, pneumonia kills 2,560,000 people worldwide each year. I happen to know as I almost died from it a couple of years ago.

    Does the economy go into lockdown for that each year?

    The reason people of the world have every reason to believe that SARS-CoV2 was a bioweapon is, we were all warned of an imminent attack:
    May 20, 2019 Trump Vows China’s Economy Won’t Surpass US on His Watch … ‘China is obviously not doing well like us,’ Trump says. … he was “very happy” with the trade war and that China wouldn’t become the world’s top superpower under his watch …”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-20/trump-vows-china-s-economy-won-t-surpass-u-s-on-his-watch

    The irony is, in 2013, China had already overtaken the US as the world’s largest trading nation – but you wont see/hear that in the US media, altho its GDP (nominal) was due to overtake the US this year.

  1527. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    I also forgot to note in the above that the Chinese acted in January to shut down internal travel and lock down the country. They knew how serious it was… but it was fine to infect the rest of the world!

    Rubbish.

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. I was flying around inside China well into Feb. Hubei was locked down, but nothing else was though varying levels of “social-distancing” had been widely implemented.

    In the event, outside Hubei China’s epidemic was a giant zero. Guangdong, where the earliest strains of the virus are to be found and a province of ~110M population saw ~1600 cases and a total of 8 deaths. There was simply no reason to shut down international travel from any of the other provinces at the time.

    After Hubei was locked down, I believe the primary reason for locking the rest of the country down was to 101% guarantee a sufficiently stable situation to allow medical resources to be commandeered and sent into Hubei to relieve its overwhelmed medical system.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  1528. @Patagonia Man

    What a waste of space and time but I can’t resist demonstrating the absurdity of your pretences at being a serious researcher. Try searching with DuckDuckGo for <> and you will get many pages of Wikipedia!! Try the slightly different version with “zionist” in inverted commas and all you get is nutters like you woth nothing but raw unverified allegations (including about Khazars!!). They no longer run Alphabet or Google though you can fantasise whatever you like I suppose. Ron’s late neighbour and friend John McCarthy told me when saying with me in Australia that he had been to the 30th birthday party of one of them and I am sure Ron could tell you much more reliably of any Zionist tendencies of that pair. After all he has lived for years within walking distance of the Stanford campus. Why not ask him about their Zionism if you think it relevant to the way Google is treating Unz material?

  1529. @Patagonia Man

    Quite sane really. But that quote from FDR, if genuine, is merely a prompt to assume it’s truth when it is *possible* that something important was planned by your opponents until you know the truth or that it isn’t so important. Roughly Ron Unz’s rule of thumb I surmise.

  1530. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    Are you aware of any comprehensive report, including dates, that compares all CoVid responses?
    I’ve heard interviews, panel discussions, etc., so I know that Taiwan and H.K. reacted early and strictly, largely due to prior experience with SARS, etc. I’d love a chart showing who did what, and timeline.

    The anti-China accusations are ludicrous. On Jan. 23 when Wuhan locked down, it was [should have been] obvious to anyone that the Chinese were preventing person-to-person transmission. What was the date WHO supposedly said not, and how did they frame it? These scientists are too clever by half with their “no evidence” proclamations. Were they waiting for the Chinese to conduct double-blind studies to prove contagion?

    And remember Fauci’s “no evidence” that masks are helpful? Too bad the US has the Keystone Cops in charge. Where is Inspector Clousseau to prat-fall into a solution… ;(

  1531. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    I don’t think so based on my sources… but it’s a distinction without a difference.

    Did China know early about how serious it was, and act? Yes. Did they give a damn about the rest of the world in terms of their actions (i.e. to facilitate the infection of the rest of the world, their suppliers and customers)?

    Nope.

    It only takes one case to cause untold economic damage for any unsuspecting country. And they all were practically, in early 2020.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1532. @xws

    All of this is great political theory, except that the virology does not support your thesis. See post 1543. Never let science get in the way politics. That is the political reality.

  1533. @Mr. Lucky

    So which is it? Have there more cases that have been recorded or fewer cases than recorded? Have there been more deaths that have been recorded or fewer?

    I think the answer to the questions is that there have been more cases than recorded and more deaths than recorded.

    Obviously many people have not been tested who have the disease. And since this disease is particularly deadly for the elderly, many of the elderly who have died were never tested for it either when they were in conditions where it is known to be particularly deadly. Most elderly don’t have autopsies. When they die they are taken straight to the funeral home after the coroner pronounces them dead under non-suspicious circumstances.

    But I do agree that this has been a global coup by the 1%. They did not let this crisis go to waste.

  1534. @Mr. Lucky

    You don’t have any response to all the links aandrews gave of the people who took down Dr. Moskovitz. aandrews is just the messenger here. You just attacked the messenger and not the message.

  1535. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    I don’t think so based on my sources…

    Your “sources” are doubtless the talking-point memos that are on your desk when you get to your cubicle at the start of your shift.

    You’ve been mis-assigned. Endless repetition of long debunked declarations doesn’t work here.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  1536. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    I know through connections I have that this was the case. Ok, not too hard to dig up evidence for that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_January_2020

    Beijing announced it will halt all inter-provincial bus and train services starting 26 January.[360][361]

    Ok, I also found this:

    The Politburo of the Communist Party of China met to discuss novel coronavirus prevention and control. Xi Jinping, general secretary of the CPC Central Committee, stated that the country is facing a “grave situation” as the number of infected people is accelerating.[177][362]

    So it’s not as if they had no idea of what was going on.

    Well… when did China suspend travel to the rest of the world, which they would do if they had some sense of responsibility to avoid infecting the rest of the world (or even slow it down)? Beuller? Can you find anything like that?

    Pro tip: you can’t

    • Replies: @Malla
  1537. Jazman says:
    @TT

    https://twitter.com/JayantBhandari5?fbclid=IwAR0vY6GVAukZp60eS18MFMXvCnnugC_iiJ2vDRoCDgNfqdQ7yTAW9RmVHgc
    what is your opinion about this guy
    I can not believe that India is such a shitty place

    • Replies: @TT
  1538. Erebus says:

    Hah! Wiki’s apparently got the same “sources” and “connections” you do, and uses them in the same way. Had you dug a little into Wiki’s sources, you’d see that Wiki misrepresented what the sources said. Yahoo [360] mentions only buses, and RTHK [361] talks only about traffic in/out of Beijing.

    Wiki then goes on to contradict itself in the very next paragraph when they say:

    26 January: China started requiring nationwide use of monitoring stations for screening, identification and immediate isolation of coronavirus-infected travellers, including at airports, railway stations, bus stations and ports.[204]

    FWIW, I just looked up my itinerary of the time and I was on an inter-provincial train on Jan 30, headed for an airport (in the next province) to catch an inter-provincial flight. I’ll grant that temperature screening had been well established by then.

    Well… when did China suspend travel to the rest of the world, which they would do if they had some sense of responsibility to avoid infecting the rest of the world (or even slow it down)?

    Had you been paying attention, you’d know that the virus’ oldest strains are predominant in the US (and Australia) so the notion that China infected the world is controversial at best.

    You’d also know that due to the cordon sanitaire thrown up around Hubei, there was no significant epidemic in the rest of China so it’s quite unclear who they’d be protecting by closing ex-Hubei airports and stranding a few million foreigners.

  1539. Becky21k says:

    I don’t believe China ever shut down it’s entire economy or locked the country down outside of Wuhan beyond the typical two week closures for Chinese New Year may have run an extra week or two.

    #1, I purposely have ordered a few cheap things from China through the US lockdown period. They shipped promptly and saw no unusual delays in transit.

    #2, I have access to wholesale in a business segment where product is produced almost exclusively in China (due mostly to US environmental laws).

    – Manufacturer A announces items before the actual production and has them made based on the number of orders they get. They got three shipments sent out in January prior to the New Year break. They have three more shipments enroute now, the earliest leaving in mid-April.

    – Manufacturer B has a line of items produced and then announces them when they have left port in a container. First come first served gets them, ensuring they sell out in most instances. They had a product arrive in April, another is due any time, and still a third for mid-June.

    – Manufacturer C (based in Canada) is very open with the process and they admitted some delay but have had people back to work for at least four weeks now, perhaps longer.

    Still another manufacturer’s product has regularly arrived to my wholesale source regularly all throughout the US lockdown period, although this company is located in still another nation and items may reach them sooner then need longer to come here; I am not as familiar with how their product distribution is done.

    For the other manufacturers, generally it takes 60 days for an item to leave there, arrive here, and be delivered to the company to be sent through normal distribution channels. Items arriving in April imply they were finished to ship in February; arriving in May means made in March, etc.

    While these products have some technology in them they’re not of great importance and due to past production issues, Manufacturer A has taken as long as 30 months from announcement of new product to product arriving here. Due to a factory closure and other changes there is a long backlog of production to these items. Despite being different manufacturers many are made in the same China factory.

    Of course, they’re not made in Wuhan, but some distance from that province.

    Based on that timeframe and availability I do not believe the factories who build these items were closed much longer than in a normal year.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  1540. Erebus says:
    @Becky21k

    I don’t believe China ever shut down it’s entire economy or locked the country down outside of Wuhan beyond the typical two week closures for Chinese New Year may have run an extra week or two.

    You’d be correct had you said “2-3 weeks beyond the typical two week closures…) In Guangdong, factories and offices began re-opening March 2, with almost all up & running (albeit short staffed) a week later. The biggest impediment to full re-opening was the fact that their staffs were trapped in their home provinces by the inter-provincial travel restrictions that remained in place until March end and in some cases into April.

    In the event, there was no epidemic outside of Hubei. The authorities clamped down hard, and then released as soon as the numbers made it obvious that the cordon sanitaire thrown up around Hubei had isolated the outbreak effectively. Textbook epidemic management, followed by a textbook V-shaped recovery. Domestically, the economy is now running on all cylinders. Exporters are still suffering, however and it’s quite likely many won’t survive.

  1541. Oemiktlob says:

    Ron,

    Have you seen this video about contact tracing in the U.S.?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_title&v=qFUyZWw7qoc

  1542. Seraphim says:
    @Ben the Layabout

    ‘Almost surely’, ‘possibly’, ‘I speculate’. Very powerful arguments indeed. Who would need evidence? Never let facts stand in the way of a good story.

  1543. gregor says:
    @NoLock

    I believe this is the article you are referring to.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    Not many of us have the training to evaluate the specifics of these arguments. Ron says as much in this article. But one of the key themes of the American Pravda series is that we are often grossly misled by leaders and experts in government, media, and academia. Expert opinion is worth something if it’s an honest opinion. But it means nothing if the experts are lying or are compromised and that seems to happen frequently on politically sensitive topics.

    Furthermore, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone.

    Note the very bold use of “irrefutably” in the last sentence; however, right before that they are forced to settle for a very weak “probably.”

  1544. utu says:

    Ex-head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove says coronavirus ‘is man-made’ and was ‘released by accident’ – after seeing ‘important’ scientific report
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8386235/Coronavirus-man-says-ex-head-MI6-Sir-Richard-Dearlove.html

    • Replies: @Herald
  1545. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Sometimes I wonder if PR China and the USA are really enemies but are working together, both controlled by the NWO.

    President Xi with that scumbag Bill Gates

    Here we see Indian PM Modi probably taking his orders from Bill Gates.

    Are all “countries” involved in this NWO game?

  1546. Malla says:
    @Anon

    India do feel themselves white, especially the high caste people.

    Your ignorance knows no bounds. It were the fair skinned upper caste Indians who led the Indian struggle of Independence from the British. The low caste darkies were in general pro-British because the British played a big part in giving them rights. Most of the Indian freedom fighters against British Raj like Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Gangadhar Tilak, Subhashchandra Bose, MK Gandhi etc… were all upper castes, either Brahmins, Kayasthas or Vaishyas (merchants). Revolutionaries fighting for lower caste rights like Mahatma Phule and Periyar wanted to British to stay to protect them from abuse and discrimination from the upper caste folks.
    Indians do not consider ourselves White but brown. Yes we are brown Caucasoids but so are Arabs, Iranians, Turks etc…

    Come on, don’t pretend to me that you don’t feel flattered I assume you white Britain. You people lost your identity long long ago and it doesn’t matter to you lost it another time. They are fake identities anyway. That’s why you fit into the west world so well.
    Come on, you can be honest to yourself. Try it.

    LOL try saying that to a crowd of Indians. LOL, they would burst out laughing and then they would throw you in a mental asylum. We have lost our culture??? LOL. You have never been to India have you?

    • Replies: @Anon
  1547. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    It was mostly the Muslims who destroyed Indian identity, not much the British.

    • Replies: @Malla
  1548. Anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:

    Had not read Milken for several years. Did not know she turned into a hard core word for word CPC propagandist. Sad to read what she does for CHICOM money.
    ACOM

  1549. Malla says:
    @Anon

    That is the conclusion of V.S. Naipaul in his work ‘India, a wounded civilization’.

  1550. utu says:

    New evidence of China’s coronavirus cover-up: Scientists KNEW it was lethal and ‘clearly contagious’ before officials told the world about ‘mystery’ outbreak

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395163/China-scientists-KNEW-virus-lethal-officials-told-world-mystery-outbreak.html

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1551. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    New evidence of China’s coronavirus cover-up: Scientists KNEW it was lethal and ‘clearly contagious’ before officials told the world about ‘mystery’ outbreak

    Well, I took a look at the Daily Mail article, though the enormous volume of ads and blocker-banning made it a little difficult. The revelations seem fully consistent with the current narrative.

    China officially notified the world of the new virus they’d found at the end of December, and officially declared that human transmission was occurring in early/mid January, around the time the first death occurred.

    However, according to the Daily Mail revelations Chinese labs were already investigating the virus in late December, and had already found evidence of human transmission at that point. So it appears that they may have delayed notifying world organizations for a week or two after their some of their scientists had gathered considerable evidence.

    Offhand, it seems to me that the delay of a week or two in formulating conclusions about an entirely new virus that hadn’t yet killed a single person is hardly the most shocking thing in the world. Since the Chinese authorities took the same delay in implementing their own public health measures, I don’t see anything shocking. Compare this with the nearly TWO MONTH delay in America’s response long after the virus was known to be a dangerous threat to public health.

    Moreover, the DM article fully confirms that America’s Defense Intelligence Agency was aware of the “cataclysmic” disease outbreak in Wuhan over a month before the Chinese authorities. Hmmmm….

    • Agree: utu, Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wizard of Oz
  1552. Anon[571] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, just for argument’s sake, do you think there is a consistent amorality in the Chinese regime, in the sense that they have a higher disregard of human life than the US government?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646

    I don’t particularly exonerate the US from evil actions. But I am curious as to your strong conviction that the evildoer in this case was the US. I’d say both narratives are feasible:
    Narrative 1: Accident and bureaucratic bungling in Wuhan. Partial coverup.
    Narrative 2: Biowarfare attack on China by US.

    In case of #2, did China allow international travel as “nuclear” option against the US and unfortunately the rest of the world?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1553. Ron Unz says:
    @Anon

    Well, just for argument’s sake, do you think there is a consistent amorality in the Chinese regime, in the sense that they have a higher disregard of human life than the US government?

    Look, someone like you is swimming in a sea of dishonest American media propaganda, so that your sense of reality has been completely distorted. If you haven’t already done so, you really should read this short article of mine from a few years ago on exactly the issue you raise:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

    And perhaps this longer one as well:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    I glanced at the NBC article and have no time or interest in investigating the credibility of the sources citing. Maybe it’s true, but more likely its mostly just anti-Chinese propaganda, of which there’s an ocean in our MSM, most of it totally ridiculous.

    As I pointed out in my article, the timing and other circumstances of the Covid-19 outbreak in Wuhan make it *extremely* unlikely that it occurred by accident. The fact that US Intelligence was aware of the outbreak long before the Chinese government raises the unlikelihood to enormous levels.

    Regarding banning Chinese outgoing flights, here’s a question for you. Because of the total incompetence of our own government, for the last couple of months the US has become the global center of the Covid-19 outbreak. Has the US therefore banned all outgoing flights to the rest of the world?

    As for the original flights from China, from what I’ve heard many perhaps most of the individuals traveling here were US residents returning home. Suppose China had prevented Americans from leaving their country. How would the US have reacted?

    I think you really should stop watching FoxNews and reading Breitbart…

    • LOL: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Anon
  1554. Anon[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    What makes you think I am American, and get my news from Breitbart? I have read your articles, thank you, and like them. The Vioxx was one very good.

    But I do read information about the Chinese government’s treatment of uncomfortable minorities (uyghiur, falun gong and Catholic) and do think they have a moral blind spot as to human life and the use of torture. I was curious about your opinion on this point, and used an article to highlight it.

    Fair point about the US and int’l travel. Otoh, China banned national travel, but not international. That would be a distinction with a difference. If China had closed its borders, governments could have negotiated and repatriated their own citizens. They have done it during this pandemic.

    I do not, however, think the world in entitled to Chinese reparations, because it would put a huge onus on innocent Chinese civilians. I do think the world would benefit from the truth, but am not hopeful we will get it. Whether it was an accident or an attack, China seems to have handled very clumsily, from a PR perspective.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @utu
  1555. Ron Unz says:
    @Anon

    What makes you think I am American, and get my news from Breitbart?

    My mistake. But as an “Anon” you don’t have a comment-history, and I tried to plausibly infer your background from just your handful of sentences. Incidentally, if you want to be taken more seriously, you should start using a Handle.

    Regarding what seems to me the utterly ridiculous theory that Covid-19 was an “accidental lab release” in Wuhan, I might as well republish a comment of mine from last week on a different thread:

    There’s a tendency for people to come up with the most outlandish explanations to deflect the obvious reality of current events, which they realize they would find personally distressing…

    So we assassinate a top Iranian leader and just a few weeks later Iran’s political elites, including 10% of their entire parliament, become infected with a mysterious, dangerous disease, quite a number of them soon dying as a consequence. Pure coincidence!

    America is an increasingly bitter trade conflict with China, and during 2019 a mysterious viral illness destroys 40% of China’s pigs, their country’s primary meat source. Coincidence!

    The trade conflict intensifies, and near the end of 2019, a mysterious deadly viral illness strikes the key transit center of Wuhan just before hundreds of millions of Chinese travel for Lunar New Year, potentially spreading the disease to the entire country. The outbreak of the disease occurs just after 300 American military officers visit the city. Pure coincidence!

    In November 2019, Defense Intelligence Agency alerts our top government officials and allies that a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak is occurring in Wuhan…over a month before the outbreak had grown large enough that anyone in the Chinese government had become aware of it. Precognition!

    Mike Pompeo visits Israel, denounces China, and demands that economic ties with the PRC be broken. Netanyahu refuses. Two days later, the Chinese ambassador is found dead, of unknown causes. Another coincidence!

    This whole thing reminds me of a mid-60s incident involving LBJ, who prior to becoming president had become one of the wealthiest men in America due to gigantic corruption in Texas. A government official involved in those corruption schemes was being prosecuted and under enormous pressure to avoid prison by implicating his confederates. He was found dead, shot seven times. The local Texas judge ruled it an “apparent suicide,” and it was reported as such in all the American newspapers, including the Washington Post.

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/a-death-in-herzliya/#comment-3924269

  1556. utu says:
    @Anon

    “China banned national travel, but not international.” – Various countries were evacuating their citizens from Wuhan sometimes using special chartered flights. Are you saying that China should have prevented it? Did other countries and America in particular introduce special measures like mandatory quarantining for the incoming passengers? Did they at least try to check their temperature?

    I hope somebody will write an extensive investigative article how criminally inept was the response of some European countries and the US in particular. Do you realize how many lives out 110,000 deaths so far in the US could have been saved if the response was more timely, if borders were closed, if mandator quarantine were imposed, if wearing masks was made mandatory for everybody in public spaces, if lockdowns were imposed two, three, four or five weeks sooner?

    https://medium.com/@curtis.yarvin/plan-a-for-the-coronavirus-7db3997490c1
    On March 9, dear old Dr. Fauci said: “If you are a healthy young person, if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship.” In a sane world, this quote would be remembered as if he’d talked about “the blacks,” or addressed a journalist as “honey.”

    The terrible truth the virus has revealed is that the US and UK — as opposed to post-Communist Asia and post-Napoleonic Europe — are not even countries. They are free-trade zones. Our governments are not governments. They are bureaucratic anarchies with ceremonial elected monarchs.

    “China seems to have handled very clumsily, from a PR perspective.” – Clumsily? From the PR perspective China indeed made a mistake. The greatest mistake was to suppress and eradicate the virus too efficiently and too quickly. If China emphasized the suffering of victims and showed some mistakes that certainly were made, China could gained more sympathy in the West which possibly would counterbalance the tone of schadenfreude and blaming China you could frequently see and hear form the very beginning in Western media. Just go read some January and February comments here at the UR and their tone: jokes, mocking and jeerings about the bat soup.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1557. Anon[819] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    The point about banning national but not international travel is relevant if China permitted its own citizens to travel and export, so to speak, the disease.

    Look at it another way. What does/did the Chinese government think about Covid19? What has it done?There are three options:

    1) Naturally ocurring virus, originated in Wuhan. From the initial info, provided by the Chinese government, it seemed that was the case. Hence all the talk about Chinese bat soup, and the schadenfreude comments you mentioned. But that was based on info comming out of China. I will accept clarification, but I remember that until late december China didn’t know it was transmitted human to human, and said that the first recorded death was in Jan 2020. That’s perfectly okay if it was a new virus, so nothing about it was known.

    2) Man-made in Wuhan, and due to human error, leaked in Wuhan. If lab-made in Wuhan, then all of the assumptions above were a lie. But it would explain the draconian lockdowns. Paraphrasing nice Mr. Trump, “many many people” in the West today think that is the truth. Not at Unz, obviously. I am not remotely qualified to offer an opinion on whether it is man-made or not, in China or elsewhere. But if so, then China should have been honest about the fact, given all the info it possesed about the virus, treatments, etc. And certainly banned international travel to its citizens. Being honest would also have helped concentrate the minds of our own stupid, callous leaders, and avoided the number of deaths you mention. After all, lab leaks have happened in the US also. I have seen some info here at Unz about reports of security concerns in the Wuhan lab, but am afraid cannot find it, and you could argue it was planted disinformation.

    3) Biowarfe attack. If China thought/thinks it was under attack, why not say something diplomatic to that effect? If what Mr. Unz holds about the wiping out of the swine industry is true, they should have had their little ears pricked. But to this day, nothing like that is coming out of China. And little info about autopsies, treatments, etc, as far as I’ve being able to ascertain. In this case, banning national but not international travel (of its own citizens) could be construed as retaliation.

    In 2 out of 3 scenarios, there is a case for arguing China witheld information about the virus being man-made. This lack of transparency has costed lives. I am not, however, arguing in favor of our leaders. If I pricked my ears when I saw that China imposed lockdowns on millions of people, all the more reason for world leaders to err on the side of prudence. But maybe they saw/planned the value of Covid19 for their own local/global agendas. Neither am I arguing in favor of Chinese reparations to the rest of the world, for the reason stated above. I simply do not exonerate China from malicious action.

    • Troll: d dan, utu, Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @utu
  1558. utu says:
    @Anon

    Go back to Breitbart and Zerohedge.

    Anon[819]? Anon[171]? – I never understood the rationale for permitting the Anons. No history, no continuity.

    • Replies: @Anon
  1559. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Well, what about understanding China’s rationale?

    What do you think is the Chinese government own understanding of Covid19? Does it think it is under US attack? It’s public position fits “naturally occurring new virus”.

    Is that a troll question? Anon 171, 571, 819,first questioned R Unz and then answered him and you. Can’t explain the numbers tho. That I post as anon is result of my limited choice, but I posted nothing complicated that requires psychoanalysis. You and your considerable brain spending so much time here, otoh.. (yes, it’s a joke).

  1560. Hoyeru says:

    Blah, Blah, blah.
    if the author had bothered to do his homework, he would have known long ago how far back USA’s lies go. WE can go back to either the attack on Pearl harbor or back even to the Indian wars or to the Jim crow laws.
    USA lied in 1990 with “babies taken out of incubators”
    But the author keeps on attacking China.
    Too many words amount to largely nothing.

  1561. TT says:
    @Jazman

    You should ask Malla for his opinion, he is one wise resourceful Indian commentator in Unz.

    Those many video clips posted in Jayant Bhandari twitter already provided good insight of India grave situation.

    In my opinion, India situation is likely going to be worst than that, as its broken healthcare system is unable to tackle such pandemic if outbreak occurs. It has only 700,000 hospitals beds for 1380M Indians, mostly in major cities and many belong to private hospitals. Yet most hospitals are poorly equipped.

    With 90% cities having no sewage system polluting water sources directly, 750M still defecating outdoor, few hundreds millions living in cramped slums without sanitary system, 100Ms of jobless poor migrant workers depending on unstable food aids, its a hotbed petri dish for virus.

    800M Indians are relying on agriculture for livelihood. Many might unable to take full care of their farm lands during lockdown due to supply disruption. Many poultry farmers have to destroy their farm animals to save feed cost when demand fell drastically. All these will cause food shortage and price inflation vicious cycle later.

    The severe locust attack on India West region since last Dec has already devastated large swath of farm lands, and may spread further inward. All these will aggravate food shortage further.

    So as economy & social situation worsen in prolong lockdown, entire India society may even breakdown into chaos with widespread jobless, hunger and food shortage. But facing still increasing infections, any loosing of lockdown will worsen the outbreak. India is stucked.

    Moreover, 30M Indian overseas workers that used to remit back $80B annually is drying up now as they are stranded overseas facing global job lost. Millions are pleading India gov help to send them back with chartered plane, esp in Middle East. Millions of families will lost their major source of income.

    While US, EU, UK and Japan gov can print $T from air as unlimited QE to bail out their economy due to their foreign reserve currency status, India can’t. It has to rely on more foreign borrowing, which it is alreay facing unserviceable 70% GDP debt ratio. All rating agencies are downgrading India, so the borrowing rate will get higher. So its economy that rely on over 60% in service sector like US, will face very severe challenge.

    Fundamentally, India gov is too corrupted and inept to face such serious global pandemic-economy crisis. That’s why India is so utter poor and badly under developed compare to China and most Asia countries, when it has more fertile agriculture land & fresh water supply than China, surrounded by oceans (of plenty seafood) on three sides with no natural enemies.

    Their top few % corrupted politicians, cronies, and the upper castes are abusing the bottom 90% just like what’s happening in US now.

    You can read below for some India informations.

    https://www.quora.com/Will-India-be-the-number-1-superpower-as-US-India-propagate-or-implode-with-1-6B-unemployable-poorly-educated-population-by-2030/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    https://www.quora.com/Did-Indians-invade-or-rule-any-country-in-the-past/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    https://www.quora.com/Does-India-have-a-second-chance-to-replicate-China-to-become-the-global-centre-for-manufacturing-considering-the-trade-war-between-the-US-and-China/answer/Thomas-Edward-71

    • Agree: Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @Jazman
  1562. utu says:

    Harvard professor pleads not guilty to lying to US officials about his ties to Wuhan university following Justice Department probe into Chinese influence at US colleges
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8427909/Harvard-professor-pleads-not-guilty-U-S-lying-China-ties.html

    • Replies: @Anon
  1563. Anon[244] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    You saw, no doubt, the second of Covid in Beijing?

    There is a video on whatsapp, that Russia has developed a cure (an antiviral) for Covid, wwhich it will distribute for free to its citizens and has taken orders from 10 countries to supply them. My technical clumsiness however, does not allow me to post it here.

  1564. Barzini says:

    An interesting theory. It might explain why the US has taken extreme, almost police-state measures to stamp out the virus here in the USA. If the USA created the problem as a means to keep China in line, and then the virus wound up back here by mistake, and THEN the American people found out about the whole thing, it would have such a devastating effect here in the USA that the USG could not survive it.

  1565. utu says:

    Covid-19 already present in Italy in mid-December, sewage water tests show
    https://www.rt.com/news/492352-italy-covid-mid-december/

    How many people have REALLY been infected with Covid-19 in China? Data shows 1.2MILLION people had the ‘flu’ in December – 10 times higher than normal
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8439183/How-people-REALLY-infected-Covid-19-China.html

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  1566. Jazman says:
    @TT

    Thank you very much for your answer it is very informative

  1567. xcd says:
    @Peter Gent

    D3 comes from sunshine. Hydrocloroquine is off-patent. So, no great mystery. It is the usual capitalist profiteering through orders to subverted government leaders.

  1568. utu says:

    OT: Eric Weinstein on Jeffrey Epstein. Responsible conspiracy theorizing.

  1569. timC says:

    Such “conspiracy theories” were once confined to the extreme political fringe of the Internet, but they are now found in the respectable pages of my morning New York Times and Wall Street Journal.…are you freaking kidding! Turned me off from there. Next you’ll be saying Bezos paper agrees!

  1570. Seraphim says:
    @utu

    There are indications that the virus was already active in France since October and that was known since May 2020:
    “Coronavirus pandemic may have started in October, says UK-French study
    Joint study ‘winds back the clock’ of virus genetics and dates initial outbreak as early as October”, by Henry Samuel Paris 8 May 2020 @https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/08/covid-19-pandemic-may-have-started-october-says-uk-french-study/:
    “The Covid-19 pandemic may have started as early as October, according to a new joint study of its genetic make-up by researchers at University College London and the University of Reunion Island.
    The pathogen wreaking havoc on the world, known scientifically as SARS-CoV-2, is thought to have made the jump from its initial host to humans at some point between October 6 and December 11”.
    I personally know the case of a Romanian citizen who has been to France in October, where she contracted a ‘bad flu’, returned to Romania and died in December of acute ‘respiratory problems’.
    Refer to the recent post of Larry Romanoff right here: https://www.unz.com/lromanoff/china-reseeded-with-covid-20/

  1571. Herald says:
    @utu

    We know its man-made, but there is no reason to think he isn’t lying about about anything else. Spooks lie almost as much as politicians.

  1572. I am of the opinion that COVID-19 was one of many bioweapons created right here in the good old USA. I also believe that only the most well run labs can contain these viruses without accidental releases. At one time (when I was with Vanderweil) I had security clearances, and I saw the inside workings of both Army and CDC laboratories. Recently (here at AECOM Atlanta) I’ve only been working with the CDC’s laboratories. One thing that seems to have progressed downhill for the worst is the quality of employees at the CDC. Being part of the Federal government, the CDC has required quotas for hiring black employees. Along with the rest of Atlanta, the CDC has become progressively “blacker” over the last 10 years. (I’ve been doing containment work and designing air filtration since my graduation from GaTech in 2003) A few of the black employees at the CDC seem to follow safety protocols, but most don’t. The blacks are never 100-percent properly garbed in personal protective equipment, and they’re always either rubbing their big noses or scratching their fat asses. Visiting CDC-Atlanta is like a trip to the zoo.

  1573. And now we have ANOTHER swine flu found in China. Are we supposed to believe this is another coincidence? How many coincidences has that been in China since 2018?

    Bioweapon sounds more and more likely…

  1574. @Ron Unz

    Ron I have been searching fruitlessly for the thread and Comment where I opined that the story from ABC News about early knowledge of the Wuhan outbreak might be explained
    1. By an under resources medical intelligence agency using open sources cleverly
    2. Feedback from the military athletes or their medicines
    so that I can firm it up with

    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/coronavirus-/12425196

    Bingo!

  1575. Very interesting theory that has a lot going for it — just a few things that make me doubt it is the full story (of course there’s always the possibility of it being mostly true, but getting a few aspects wrong):

    1. Event 201 — all the pre-planning looks like they even intended it to go everywhere so they could wreck the economy with lockdowns
    2. Would they really be reckless enough to release a bioweapon into the wild without having an antidote for themselves? (Or do they have an antidote and are concealing it from the real people, in which case Boris Johnson’s and Jair Bolsonaro’s infection was probably a fake?)
    3. China’s reaction – no attempt to expose what really happened? [Same for Iran, Russia, North Korea and other countries that could benefit from exposing what happened]

  1576. Arnieus says:

    Nearly 30,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus during the last two weeks, and by some estimates this is a substantial under-count

    By other estimates the number is greatly inflated by misdiagnosing death from other cause as Covid-19. Many doctors and nurses attest to this practice.

  1577. Agnostica says:

    This article is certainly well considered and thought provoking. Here is a link to another well written article with a narrative stating that the virus was indeed “leaked from a lab”. I would be curious to know the thoughts of others on this article.

    https://www.independentsciencenews.org/commentaries/a-proposed-origin-for-sars-cov-2-and-the-covid-19-pandemic/

    • Replies: @ic1000
  1578. ic1000 says:
    @Agnostica

    The article you linked is “A Proposed Origin for SARS-CoV-2 and the COVID-19 Pandemic” by Jonathan Latham, PhD and Allison Wilson, PhD, Independent Science News, dated 7/15/20.

    I found it well-sourced and well-written. To the extent I can follow the arguments and read the source material, they check out (but I am not a virologist).

    The premise is that in the spring of 2012, six miners were assigned to remove bat droppings from inside a mine in Yunnan province, ~1,000 km distant from Wuhan. The six all contracted a severe respiratory disease, probably a viral infection. Three of them died.

    The origin of SARS-CoV-2 that we propose below is based on the case histories of these miners and their hospital treatment. This simple theory accounts for all the key features of the novel SARS-CoV-2 virus… We do not propose a specifically genetically engineered or biowarfare origin for the virus but the theory does propose an essential causative role in the pandemic for scientific research carried out by the laboratory of Zheng-li Shi at the WIV; thus also explaining Wuhan as the location of the epicentre.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1579. @ic1000

    The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) – China’s first BSL4 lab wasn’t opened until 2015.

    One would have to locate where the virus was stored (and studied for Gain Of Function?) between 2012 and 2015 if from miners in a cave.

    One would also have to explain why the outbreak now – NOV and DEC 2019? 2 months before China’s busiest economic period of the year – Chinese New Year on 25 JAN 2020.

    While there are other diseases that can exist in animals and infect humans – there is much evidence to suggest the impossibility that SARS-CoV2 could have had a zoonotic origin – but I’m not a virologist.

    • Replies: @ic1000
  1580. ic1000 says:
    @Patagonia Man

    > The Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) – China’s first BSL4 lab wasn’t opened until 2015.

    The WIV was founded in 1956. Dr. Zheng-li Shi is China’s pre-eminent coronavirus expert. She has worked there since at least 2005. Here is a link to a paper on a coronavirus that she published that year in Science; see PubMed for dozens of others from 2006 to 2020. Prior to 2015, such work at the WIV could not have been conducted in a BSL4 lab.

    > One would have to locate where the virus was stored (and studied for Gain Of Function?) between 2012 and 2015 if from miners in a cave. One would also have to explain why the outbreak now – NOV and DEC 2019?

    Agree. Latham and Wilson discuss these questions in the paper I linked above.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1581. Mr UNZ
    Suggestion of improving the site.
    The classification of the comments short and should be expanded.
    Also the classification of the comments should be done by commenting public.
    I do suggest these classifications.
    Troll
    Agree
    Disagree.
    Unmarked comments.
    One mark is naturally a personal opinion but three marks could be considered majority opinion.
    So if three people mark a comment agree it should go into agree category.
    And so on.
    There are many comments to read what is really tiresome.
    So most people could only read the agree category and unmarked category.
    This would also discourage trolls if they find all their comments in disagree category.
    Also it would help in final editing of the articles.
    I do not know how much reprogramming it would take.
    But maybe it deserves a consideration.

    This will also help the final editing of the articles.

  1582. @ic1000

    Yes, WIV was founded in 1956 as the Wuhan Microbiology Laboratory under the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS).

    In 2003, CAS approved the construction of China’s first BSL4 laboratory at the WIV.
    Ref: “China Inaugurates the First Biocontainment Level 4 Laboratory in Wuhan”. Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences. 3 February 2015.

    I think the confusion arises from the difference between the ‘institute’ and the ‘lab’

    The paper to which you link Bats Are Natural Reservoirs of SARS-Like Coronaviruses is inconclusive. Just so you know, dogs are also a reservoirs of Coronaviruses.

    Also, just so you know, the common cold is also a coronavirus.

    So I’m making 2 points for your further exploration:-

    1. Given:
    – the active US containment (see the 1st & 2nd Island Chain Strategy) of China
    – US aggression (trade wars, banning Huwaei’s 5G network, etc, etc) towards China
    – Trump’s declaration on 05.20.19 that China would not overtake the US as the world’s biggest economy [quote] “on my watch” and
    – the timing of the outbreak there can be absolutely no doubt that SARS-CoV2 is a bio-weapon released at the economically most sensitive time of the Chinese year: Chinese New Year.

    and

    2. The zionist-controlled media of 6 corporations which now control the information of what 90% of the American people are exposed to on a daily basis, are massively hyping the infection rates and deaths of SARS-CoV2. To put it into context 2.560.000 people die of pneumonia each year. Do we go onto lock-down for that?

    However, don’t take my word for it, satisfy your own conscience.

  1583. “No, the coronavirus wasn’t made in a lab. A genetic analysis shows it’s from nature
    Scientists took conspiracy theories about SARS-CoV-2’s origins seriously, and debunked them “
    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1584. @james charles

    1. You must have missed @utu’s gold-boxed comment #1536

    2. If you’re going to quote Science News, it always pays to read the ‘About’ of any website.

    Science News
    1719 N St. NW
    Washington, DC 20036

    DC – how convenient?

    H. Robert Horvitz [who] serves as the chairman of the Board of Trustees at Society for Science & the Public “appointed Maya Ajmera as president and CEO of Society for Science & the Public and publisher of the Science News family of media properties.”

    “H. Robert Horvitz, was born in Chicago, Illinois to Jewish parents”

    If SAR-CoV2 is exposed as a bio-weapon, there’s good reason for those who profit most from war (in this case hybrid war) to being throwing curve balls.

    Heads up!

    • Replies: @james charles
  1585. artichoke says:

    FAIR, a leading American media watchdog group

    So, Muslim propaganda here. By the way what Lieber did may have been “technical” but it’s not because he was trying to save a few dollars on his income taxes. He was trying to evade espionage controls.

  1586. @Patagonia Man

    “H. Robert Horvitz, was born in Chicago, Illinois to Jewish parents”

    L.O.L. So it is/was a ‘Jewish plot’?

    “To do so, it is important to identify the route by which SARS-CoV-2 adapted for human transmission. However, there is presently little evidence to definitively support any particular scenario of SARS-CoV-2 adaptation. Did SARS-CoV-2 transmit across species into humans and circulate undetected for months prior to late 2019 while accumulating adaptive mutations? Or was SARS-CoV-2 already well adapted for humans while in bats or an intermediate species? More importantly, does this pool of human-adapted progenitor viruses still exist in animal populations? Even the possibility that a non-genetically-engineered precursor could have adapted to humans while being studied in a laboratory should be considered, regardless of how likely or unlikely (39). “
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1.full.pdf

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  1587. @Patagonia Man

    “To do so, it is important to identify the route by which SARS-CoV-2 adapted for human transmission. However, there is presently little evidence to definitively support any particular scenario of SARS-CoV-2 adaptation. ”

  1588. Obviously the US targetted the Chinese embassy in Belgrade – outside the USA that’s hardly controversial. I can’t see any reason to doubt that the Chinese military forcefully cleared Tiannanmen Square, including using lethal ammunition, as reported live at the time by journalists on the ground. I remember watching Kate Adie of the BBC. IME those live-on-site reports tend to be far more accurate than later constructed narratives, eg I remember during the Ukrainean Maidan uprising, the Channel 4 reporter on the ground (Matt Frei I think) being highly sceptical of the official narrative that the Ukrainean government was ordering the shooting of its own people, he knew it didn’t make any sense. Of course that doesn’t mean that thousands were killed at Tiannanmen, just that the protesters definitely didn’t all ‘leave peacefully’. Adie was reporting people being shot down around her. I have no particular regard for the BBC, but I doubt she just made it up. Making up false narratives happens later, in the newsrooms, not really on the ground IME.

    There can be a risk in thinking that because the official media narrative is false, and the US government is pretty evil, that other governments are necessarily good. While they vary, most of the big players like China are pretty evil too.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1589. I can’t judge either way whether the virus was an accidental release from a Chinese lab, or a deliberate operation by the US Deep State. Or even a spontaneous jump from bat to human – though the last seems very unlikely to have originated in Wuhan, it could have originated where the bats live, and then been brought to Wuhan, possibly by one of those travelling to the Lunar New Year holiday.

    I am pretty sure that this was not an operation ordered by or known to Donald Trump. And I’m 80% sure that if it was a US Deep State operation, they carried it out knowing that the virus would be likely to spread beyond Chinese borders, that it would likely hit the USA, and so harm the Trump administration, hopefully leading to the election of a Democrat administration – as fervently hoped for by the US ‘mainstream media’. I think an easy mistake to make is the assumption that the US Deep State has any interest in the welfare of the USA & its people, or is under the control of the US President. There are nationalist States where the Secret State has some regard for the national interest – I don’t think that has been true in the USA for several decades, at least.

  1590. Ron Unz says:
    @Simon in London

    I can’t see any reason to doubt that the Chinese military forcefully cleared Tiannanmen Square, including using lethal ammunition, as reported live at the time by journalists on the ground. I remember watching Kate Adie of the BBC. IME those live-on-site reports tend to be far more accurate than later constructed narratives…I have no particular regard for the BBC, but I doubt she just made it up. Making up false narratives happens later, in the newsrooms, not really on the ground IME.

    Well, I wasn’t there and I wasn’t watching that BBC report 31 years ago, but I’m reasonably confident you were just taken in by a media hoax. You really should read that article I linked, which includes the following passage:

    A BBC reporter watching from a high floor of the Beijing Hotel said he saw soldiers shooting at students at the monument in the center of the square. But as the many journalists who tried to watch the action from that relatively safe vantage point can attest, the middle of the square is not visible from the hotel.

    https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

    The author was the former Beijing Bureau Chief of the Washington Post, who personally covered the events at the time, and his article was published in the Columbia Journalism Review, America’s most prestigious publication in that category. Offhand, I just can’t see why he would lie about what had actually happened, especially since the entire American MSM was still regularly repeating the story of the “massacre.”

    By contrast, it’s very easy to imagine that some local TV journalist got confused by the unfolding nighttime events, and misreported them to her television audience. The article provides a pretty plausible explanation of how the “myth” was created and rapidly propagated.

    • Replies: @Simon in London
  1591. @Ron Unz

    I was watching live at the time – Adie was on the square and reported seeing people shot. That doesn’t speak to the scale of how many were killed. Like I said, watching the reporters live and full of emotion you often see something very different than the later narrative, seeing Matt Frei on the Maidan square later was a useful counterpount, he didn’t believe the narrative he was getting about the evil dictator massacring his own people. Or I remember watching a horrified Shep Smith in New Orleans for Fox News 2005, with the studio talking heads trying to spin a Hurricane Katrina narrative the opposite of what he was telling them.

    Journalists certainly make stuff up. Things get exaggerated. Tiannanmen death numbers may certainly be exaggerated. Watching the reports that night it was clear the square was not being cleared peacefully or that the students had just decided to leave.

    One point – the further you go back in time, generally the less adept the media/govt complex is at narrative construction, and the more rough edges you’re going to see.

  1592. Re https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
    I think the point here is that the witnessed killings occurred on streets off the square. From what I recall that fits with what I saw Kate Adie reporting – she was with a group of demonstrators on a street near the square who came under fire from the Chinese millitary. The Chinese say 300 killed; one may expect actual deaths were somewhat higher.

    The article argues that ‘Tinananmen Massacre’ was actually ‘Massacres near Tiananmen’ – fair enough, that certainly seems plausible. Lots of people still died, killed by the Chinese government suppressing demonstrators.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1593. Ron Unz says:
    @Simon in London

    I think the point here is that the witnessed killings occurred on streets off the square. From what I recall that fits with what I saw Kate Adie reporting…The Chinese say 300 killed; one may expect actual deaths were somewhat higher.

    The article argues that ‘Tinananmen Massacre’ was actually ‘Massacres near Tiananmen’ – fair enough, that certainly seems plausible. Lots of people still died, killed by the Chinese government suppressing demonstrators.

    But that’s the crucial point. The Chinese government had *always* claimed that hundreds were killed in Beijing when the army suppressed the violent rioters (who had themselves had used Molotov cocktails to burn alive many soldiers). Meanwhile, for three decades the Western MSM has always claimed that the students in Tiananmen Square were shot, which seems like a total hoax.

    Maybe the PRC underestimated the number of casualties and maybe it didn’t. The bottom line is that there is ZERO evidence the PRC ever lied and absolutely massive evidence that the Western MSM lied at the time, and has continued lying for over thirty years.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
  1594. @Ron Unz

    What’s your analysis of the current COVID situation in Sweden?

  1595. Rurik says:
    @ld

    Your list is too small

    but his point is well-taken

    For the ZUS to point the finger of moral outrage over lying, is the height of hypocrisy and in-your-face insult to people’s intelligence.

    Domestically, (living in the Zio-states), I sort of see it as a case of ‘Master-Blaster’, with the NYT/WSJ/media- as the Master

    yelling at the Blaster that he’s being controlled by Putin! ‘Putin has you as his puppet on a string!, you stupid dupe!’ Stop listening to Putin and do what’s in your best interest!’

    While the American people are so used to the ((Master)) being there, (100 + years) that don’t even notice him, (as their nation descends into orchestrated dissolution).

    We’re spending untold trillions of dollars fighting the Eternal Wars for Israel, with overt Jewish ownership of our media and Big Tech, and shameless AIPAC lobbying, while our media screeches non-stop about ‘Russian meddling in our democracy!’

    It’s a sort of a Twilight Zone of surreal zombies

    doing their level best to ignore the arrogant putz sitting on their heads, looting their future and dooming their progeny to a nightmarish hell on earth (as his shit and piss trickles downward).

    It’s easier to pretend he isn’t there, as they go through the motions of the Two Minute Hate for Israel’s Hitler du jour.

  1596. Anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:

    So either China’s leadership had suddenly gone insane, or they regarded this new virus as an absolutely deadly national threat, one that needed to be controlled at any possible cost.

    Ron Unz acts as if the above are the only two inferences to be drawn from China’s actions, but there is another inference that can be drawn. That China engaged in a propaganda extravaganza, helped by globalists, to scare the west into following their lead for the purpose of destroying the west by locking it down, getting rid of small independent businesses, dismantling the west’s freedoms, all of which would destroy the west’s economies so as to ultimately bring down the standard of living in the west and reduce its people to the level of the Chinese, so that globalists can utilize cheap land and labor in both the east and west.

    By the time this is over, there will be no middle class. All will lose their private property, their businesses, their money, and we will become a nation of tenants and employees, begging for jobs for oligarchs (who will be the only ones left standing) – jobs that pay $.50 per hour.

  1597. J says:

    The Chinese have no inhibitions when accusing the imperialists of using bioweapons. They accused the USA during the Korean war of waging a forbidden biological war, with racist motives. It was untrue. Yet now, when it may be true, they are strangely hushed and not defending themselves against the unabashed claims of the world media (Der Spiegel published a ferocious indictment and demand of reparations, months ago). The Chinese ignore it all. If innocent, why are they silent? Not even North Korea is suggesting that it may be a Made in America virus.

    • Replies: @Ram
  1598. Ram says:

    Excellent article. Yet we can only say that it is “highly likely” to use the British phrase to describe the attack.

    ” But I strongly suspect that the Chinese had gotten that idea from our own publication.”

    This is the only bit I have trouble with. I am certain that the Chinese figured it out for themselves.

  1599. Zarkov says:

    An excellent article featuring credible analysis with one very serious flaw. While I happen to agree with your hypothesis that this viral attack may have been secretly launched by America — or more correctly and accurately — certain elements of the American government — you speculate under the erroneous conclusion that if the American government truly was at cause for the launch of this virus in Wuhan and never considered its potential arrival in America, it is because the American government is a coordinated yet careless behemoth that never took precautions to prevent it’s biowarfare weapon from returning to boomerang back on its creator.

    The error in this analysis is that our government is far from monolithic; it is composed of factions, always jockeying for power, money and recognition; and they are often at bitter odds with each other, both politically and philosophically.

    In my considered opinion, having this virus come back to the U.S. and essentially destroy an apparently very strong and robust economy was exactly and precisely what was intended all along by The Deep State– for the simple reason that doing so would destroy Trump’s major achievement — economic recovery and growth — and create a groundswell of opposition to his re-election for his “failure” to defeat the Corona virus and save the economy.

    Again, in my considered opinion, (although there are many many other collateral reasons for this virus, like implementing Bill Gates grandiose vaccination agenda and the creation of ID2020 — to biotag every human being so that they can be tracked anywhere on this planet) the first and foremost reason this virus was created and released was to help defeat Trump and prevent his re-election thru the destruction of the American economy, because Trump is the lone wild card standing in the way of the Global elites who want and continue to work for a One World Government.

    Z

  1600. ic1000 says:

    Further circumstantial evidence in support of the theory that a predecessor of the SARS-CoV-2 virus infected six miners in a bat-inhabited cave in a distant part of China in 2012. They fell ill with an unidentified pneumonia, three died. The WIV was called in for expert consultation, took samples, and returned to Wuhan.

    This virus then escaped containment at WIV in the autumn of 2019.

    “TheSeeker268” gathered elements of this story as a Twitter thread:

    [MORE]

  1601. NukeChina says:

    It should be obvious that this isn’t a US weapon. You don’t create a bioweapon you haven’t got mitigation/vax for- everyone knows that.

    While there may have been “advance” notice, use Occam’s Razor. This doesn’t mean the US *planned* this attack, or had a hand in development (the memory-holed treasonous Harvard “professor” – aka PRC operative – caught red-handed with bioweapons material/information while attempting to flee the country, and his ring of PRC-operatives masquerading as Chinese post-docs in his lab notwithstanding).

    It only means we have intel that proves the “official” timeline presented by the PRC and the WHO is phony as a three-dollar bill.

    On the other hand, consider the fact that the Chinese ARE in fact apparently immune to this virus….there is no outbreak, never was. What we saw in Wuhan was a well-choreographed simulation with isolated cases, that failed to spread in any significant fashion despite months of zero “containment” efforts. Yet, it easily escaped China proper and was quickly distributed around the world by infected Chinese travelling internationally from the virus epicenter of Wuhan – hundreds of thousands of departures to international destinations between the first cases sometime in October 2019, and the first external acknowledgements of a problem. Donald Trump never had any of this secret-squirrel information referenced as CIA work product, obviously that was also for a good reason. There is no evidence that these Deep State orgs ever passed on this intelligence to the administration in a timely manner – all of this “pre-knowledge” has come to light “after the fact”.

    So given the Chinese are immune – we can deduce that this in fact a bioweapon designed by the PRC , to which most Chinese have innate or acquired immunity.

    Innate = genetically engineered this way. Maybe something to do with the binding receptors, which we know are very unevenly racially distributed in humans – or possibly some so far undiscovered other genetic shield.

    Acquired = Vax.

    Very simple to grasp this theory if you consider the scale of the fake “outbreak” in China compared to every other nation where it is a problem.

    Over the entire course of the outbreak the “attack rate” in China has been less than 6 persons per 100K. Elsewhere, it is is 50-1000x that rate. This is a differential that cannot be explained except by widespread immunity in the Chinese population.

    Put it this way: in 12 hours, the US, with a population 1/5 that of China, records more cases of this virus, than the entire population of China over the course of a full year or more.

    Let that sink in.

    Still think its not a Chinese bioweapon? What more evidence do you need? Take a look at their case graph and its perfectly flat “tabletop” and then go look at EVERY OTHER NATION for that same data. NOBODY has a graph like China.

    That’s your visual. Put that together with the above. Do you STILL believe the “official narrative” about bats and such despite the fact there has never been any evidence that this virus was present in any wild population of animals anywhere in China?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  1602. Ron Unz says:
    @NukeChina

    It should be obvious that this isn’t a US weapon. You don’t create a bioweapon you haven’t got mitigation/vax for- everyone knows that…Put it this way: in 12 hours, the US, with a population 1/5 that of China, records more cases of this virus, than the entire population of China over the course of a full year or more.

    Well, you’re probably a pretty typical example of one of the total retards who reads Breitbart and then maybe wanders off to hang around my own website.

    Obviously, no normal and competent country would launch a dangerous biowarfare attack without having the antidote available, but everyone knows that these days the US is an exceptionally incompetent country, and certainly not “normal.”

    You should address your complaints to the rogue American elements associated with the Deep State Neocons who were presumably behind the attack.

    Although likely scenario is outlined in the next of my long article, since reading probably isn’t your strong point, here’s a brief outline in a follow-up piece:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/31000-words-missing-from-the-atlantic-and-the-new-york-times-sunday-magazine/#addendum-the-hypothetical-scenario-of-the-covid-19-outbreak

    And since this article is several months ago and has accumulated such a large number of comments that the thread has become unwieldy, I’ll take this opportunity to close it. But the discussion can certainly be continued on several other of my Covid-19 pieces.

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