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《滚石》发表文章称巴黎圣母院的重建不应反映法国的白人/天主教历史,而是其多元文化(穆斯林)的未来
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这座拥有 800 年历史的宏伟建筑是西方文明的美丽象征,巴黎圣母院的可怕大火仍在熊熊燃烧。 然而,有些人认为它不应该重建到原来的形式,因为现在居住在法国的穆斯林人口众多。

而且,当然,任何注意到这一庞大穆斯林人口的人都会立即成为仇视伊斯兰者或极右翼成员……[法国应该如何重建巴黎圣母院?: 大部分结构在大火中幸存下来——但随着重建工作的推进,这个国家将面临一个大问题:大教堂对 21 世纪的法国意味着什么?,滚石,16 年 2019 月 XNUMX 日]:

在过去的几个世纪里,大教堂在重大历史事件中发挥了作用,从国王加冕到拿破仑加冕,再到戴高乐总统的安魂曲。 巴黎圣母院不仅是法国历史身份的象征,也是整个天主教的象征。 “它有双重含义,”1980 年至 1985 年在巴黎圣母院担任牧师的法国天主教神父兼历史学家让-罗伯特·阿莫加特 (Jean-Robert Armogathe) 说,“800 年来,它一直是天主教生活和法国的中心。” 正如 Armogathe 指出的那样,它实际上也是巴黎的中心:大教堂外的一颗金星标志着零点,即所谓的城市中心。

但对于法国的一些人来说,巴黎圣母院也是一种根深蒂固的怨恨象征,是一个存在严重缺陷的机构的纪念碑,也是一个理想化的基督教欧洲法国,可以说它一开始就从未存在过。 哈佛大学建筑历史学家帕特里西奥·德尔雷亚尔 (Patricio del Real) 说:“这座建筑承载了太多的意义,以至于它的燃烧感觉就像是一种解放行为。” 如果不出意外,大教堂被一些人视为“旧城——石头和信仰巴黎的化身——就像埃菲尔铁塔是现代性、生活乐趣和变化的巴黎的典范,”迈克尔金梅尔曼 “纽约时报”.

建筑历史学家兼巴黎圣母院副教授约翰哈伍德说,尽管法国政治派系两边的政客都劝阻人们不要试图将巴黎圣母院大火政治化,但将这座建筑仅仅视为巴黎的一个旅游景点是错误的。多伦多大学。 “这实际上是一座政治纪念碑。 所有的大教堂都是,”他说。 几个世纪以来,大教堂是天主教会主教的所在地,当时教会和国家之间几乎没有区别。 “它不仅是巴黎的政治权力中心,也是法国的政治权力中心,”他说。 “即使在法国大革命之后,通过连续的革命和政治权力和政权,情况仍然如此。”

巴黎圣母院在 XNUMX 世纪由被广泛认为是现代历史建筑修复教父的 Eugène-Emmanuel Viollet-le-Duc 翻新后获得了更加明显的民族主义象征意义。 Viollet-le-Duc 试图恢复这座建筑的哥特式过去,这种风格在当时基本上不受欢迎; 他修复了西立面、(现已毁坏的)尖顶,以及对合唱团的修改和哥特式彩色玻璃窗的增加。

然而,在过去的几个世纪里,“法国人”的含义显然发生了很大的变化。 一项人口普查数据显示,虽然法国仍然以基督教为主,但天主教徒的人数却逐年下降,从 64 年的 2010% 下降到 56 年的 2012%。 这 法国的穆斯林人数也在增加, 占人口的 5% 以上(从 3 年的 2006% 上升)导致了猖獗的伊斯兰恐惧症和极右翼极端主义政党的诞生,如由极端主义者马琳·勒庞 (Marine Le Pen) 领导的国民阵线。 巨大的收入差距也导致了所谓的“黄背心”抗议活动的爆发,这一运动主要由 中下阶层和中产阶级青年 左派破坏了许多具有类似历史意义的法国古迹(以及他们最近的行动 预计马克龙将在预定的新闻发布会上发表评论,当圣母院开始燃烧时被推迟)。 事实上,在火灾发生后的几个小时内,许多人开始 将事故归咎于黄色背心; 还有一阵骚动 仇视伊斯兰教的帖子 在社交媒体上将火灾归咎于穆斯林极端主义恐怖分子,尽管目前所有证据表明火灾是偶然的。

尽管在火灾发生后的几个小时内,许多法国人和政治家口头上赋予了巴黎圣母院的象征意义,但比里尼亚尼说,随着法国发生了变化,巴黎圣母院作为国家身份的图腾也失去了一些重量,并且对从火焰中传出的一些热情洋溢的言辞持怀疑态度。 然而,既然世界已经团结起来支持大教堂的重建,然而,来自世界各地的捐款开始涌入,人们可能会重新关注大教堂作为法国历史和文化的象征。 对一些人来说,这非常令人担忧。 “让我对这一事件感到担忧的一件事是,在一个像法国这样现在分裂严重的国家,假设 [Notre Dame] 作为一个基石机构,它会造成一个漏洞,你必须想象它必须重新变成谁来想象,这是一个非常重要的问题,”哈伍德说。

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尽管马克龙和皮诺特等捐助者都强调大教堂应该尽可能接近原貌重建,但布里尼亚尼等一些建筑历史学家认为,考虑到大教堂发展的多个阶段,这会很复杂。 “问题变成了,你实际上是在重建哪个圣母院?”他说。 Harwood 也认为,像 LeDuc 150 多年前所做的那样,试图重建这座大厦曾经的样子是错误的。 任何重建都不应反映一个古老的法国,也不是一个从未出现过的法国——一个非世俗的、白人欧洲法国——而是反映今天的法国,一个目前正在建设中的法国。 “你可以重建建筑物的想法是天真的。 它是重复过去的错误,思想的分类错误,人们必须想象,如果对建筑物做任何事情,它必须表达我们想要的东西——法国的天主教徒,法国人——想要的。 我们现在是谁的表达是什么? 它代表什么,为谁服务?”他说。

然而,汉堡将这个想法斥为“荒谬”。 现在已经考虑到破坏的全部程度——而且比许多人最初担心的要小——他认为没有理由不尝试重建和保护中世纪建筑中为数不多的奇迹之一。 “在重建教堂的过程中,并不是一定要为中世纪的天主教和贵族的荣耀建造一座纪念碑。 很简单,这座建筑见证了法国作为一个现代国家的整个历史,”他说。 “[你]不能只是抹去历史。 它就在那里,必须批判性地处理它。”

我们现在是谁? 它代表什么,为谁服务?

不是法国人。 不是天主教徒。 不是白人。 它们正在被取代,巴黎圣母院是西方文明的遗迹,正被法国充满活力的多元文化未来所取代。

为巴黎圣母院祈祷。 为法国人民祈祷。 为我们的文明祈祷。

 
隐藏31条评论发表评论
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  1. RS 几十年来一直是一群小丑。 法国到处都是建筑上令人沮丧的清真寺——他们真的想把西方文明的杰作变成一座租金低廉的肮脏清真寺吗? 在美国,新引进的穆斯林一直在将古老美丽的匹兹堡教堂变成水烟吧。

    • 同意: Augustus, Realist, MarcB.
  2. 这些白痴受过高等教育的“历史学家”应该闭上他们该死的漏洞。

    法国天主教会是 乞讨 为急需的维修捐款,而法国却没有采取任何行动。大教堂是 RCC 的财产,如果你认为他们会在顶部建一座该死的尖塔,那你就有了另一种想法。

    顺便说一句:在你知道他们将如何修复之前,不要考虑捐钱。

    • 同意: Mr. Rational
    • 回复: @Carlo
    @纽约女孩

    事实上,大教堂属于法国国家,天主教会是唯一永久的受益者:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Ownership
    因此,不幸的是,法国政府几乎可以为所欲为,看看今天谁掌权,我们不能指望有什么好结果。

  3. The Pope said the church should be replaced with a mosque, and he said
    that Catholics should wash the feet of muslims to atone for the Crusades.
    He also said there are no homosexual priests.

  4. 好吧,滚石确实有一个供奉撒旦的神殿,所以我为什么不惊讶他们会屈服于此呢?

  5. 哇。在那里吓了我一会儿。网站一整天都瘫痪了,甚至当它回来时,评论也全部关闭了。

    我责怪恐怖分子。

    • 同意: lou
  6. 我想你们都会喜欢读这个。试图找到有关艾莉森·约翰逊(Alyson Johnson)的更多信息,这位在俄克拉荷马城和诺曼喷洒“种族主义”涂鸦的女人,并发现了这颗宝石

    “关于这是‘虚假仇恨犯罪’的说法令人困惑,因为,这确实发生了。这是仇恨犯罪,无论动机如何,其影响肯定不是假的。

    我们的反应也不应该是这样。”

    https://www.normantranscript.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-rally-brought-healing-not-cure/article_a9790834-2a8e-5016-9f53-f8499fd2a359.html

    这是权利白。虚假的仇恨犯罪是真实的,因为其影响是显而易见的。你始终有罪

  7. Rolling Stone Magazine Argues Rebuilding of Notre Dame Cathedral Shouldn’t Reflect France’s White/Catholic History, But Its Multicultural (Muslim) Future

    Then leave it a smoldering ruin.

  8. I’ve already said what I’d do with the restoration, if they put me in charge.

    0.  Power-wash all the soot off everything that’s not too delicate for such treatment.

    1.  Rebuild the timber roof structure with galvanized steel beams and trusses, electrically insulated from the copper roofing if necessary to prevent galvanic corrosion.  Ceramic and glass insulators work wonders, and glass as thin as a microscope cover slip will do.  Build something to last for the NEXT 800 years.

    2.  Insulate with incombustible materials like rock wool, where such is necessary.

    3.  Commission sculptors to re-create all the statuary that cannot be repaired.  For all surviving statues and lost statues for which adequately precise photography is available, create computer models sufficient to re-sculpt with multi-axis milling machines.  Offer limited-edition copies to collectors at auction.  Spread the artwork of Notre Dame around the world while raising money.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for the church of Rome, but Notre Dame is a symbol of Western Man and shall not disappear if I have anything to say about it.

    • 同意: Mr McKenna
    • 回复: @Lockean Proviso
    @先生。 合理的

    The French are good with aerospace and hydraulic technology, so I was thinking Airbus could build a grey or white weave carbon fiber roof in sections that a heavy lift helicopter or cranes could emplace on top sooner to seal from the elements, then put in emergency water plumbing over that with 3D printed sprayers that look like stone rosettes or another period design in a pattern around the new roof. Then a proper copper or bronze roof could be put in on top of that to finish.

  9. OT (forgive me, but I don’t do this much):

    关于 Mr. Kersey’s post on the young Samantha Josephson from N. Jersey, murdered in Columbia, S. Carolina, I read a small memorial to the girl that went:

    We are so sorry that the world couldn’t keep you safe.

    I think one could write a whole thesis on the stupidity contained within that one sentence.

    • 同意: Cauchemar du Singe
  10. Rolling Stone Magazine Argues

    ‘RS’ has been almost single-minded in its dedication to the eradication of the white race of human beings, and as their more infamous, deliberate hoaxes have shown, they’ll stop at nothing to achieve their aims.

    That is to say, they’re pretty much like the rest of the ‘controlled media’–only more so. The less attention we give them the better. Except perhaps to call them out now and then as Mr Kersey does here.

  11. 中世纪 天主教

    Uh, that’s in 大写, Jann.

    It’s been a crap magazine covering crap music for 50 years. Why would you expect anything good from them about architecture?

    • 回复: @Anonymous
    @RegCæsar

    Jann Wenner is a piece of shit and I regret that he wasn't taken for a good chunk of his personal wealth in court over the Haven Monahan catfishing thing with Sabrina Rubin whateverhernameis.

  12. Latest tweet from Sabrina Rubin Erdely — “LOL” — consider the source.

  13. Rolling Stone magazine is just trash. At the height of its popularity, the 70’s, it was buffoonish. Rock ‘n’ Roll, which was its original reason for being, was held in obvious contempt by its writers, all of whom were snivelling New York City nebbishes who thought pop music had value because it was heralding a (vaguely Marxist) revolution! The only interesting thing about RS is that it still exists in print form, albeit in a much smaller format. Pretty soon it will be the size of “Reader’s Digest.” It must have extremely low circulation. There can’t be more than a few thousand drooling imbeciles who still take it seriously.

    If you enjoy morbid humor, check out some of the issues from ’77 (for example) and see how they gush over 10cc and Steely Dan while ridiculing Jimmy Page and his irritating little band of Englishmen. Mick Jagger is considered a god, apparently because he dated Jan Wenner.

  14. 我正在看一部《星际迷航》电影,其中仍然以原演员阵容为特色。一位根据原系列书籍的女性作者表示,吉恩·罗登伯里创作该系列的最初目的之一是促进我们今天所说的“多样性”。如果他们屈服于社会正义斗士和他们对历史的看法,那么巴黎圣母院的重建就不会有任何法国特有的东西。从古希腊语的意义上来说,被视为希腊人意味着成为希腊人就意味着拥有共同的祭坛、共同的语言和共同的文化。无神论、移民和伊斯兰教对于法国传统文化来说都是陌生的。大教堂应该尽可能接近原貌重建。它的目的是成为人们,特别是法国礼拜者去礼拜的教堂。它不仅仅是一个旅游景点,更是法国身份的象征。多样性破坏了身份。多样性模糊了一个人与另一个人之间的区别界限。重建后的大教堂毫无疑问是基督教的、天主教的,更重要的是,在这种情况下,是法国的。

    • 回复: @Mr. Rational
    @伍迪·韦弗


    从古希腊语的意义上来说,被视为希腊人意味着成为希腊人就意味着拥有共同的祭坛、共同的语言和共同的文化。 无神论, 移民和伊斯兰教对于法国传统文化来说都是陌生的。
     
    其中一件不属于。

    法国和古希腊都有本土的无神论者。随着宗教及其教义越来越落后于知识的洪流,无神论一直在增长,这表明它们是错误的,在许多情况下实际上是青铜时代的神话。总的来说,神学家对新出现的事实实在是太无知了,甚至无法让教义跟上知识海啸的步伐,更不用说站在它前面了。宗教越来越成为无知者逃往的地方,在那里他们可以得到一切重要问题的答案,而不必再思考(尤其是伊斯兰教,还有社会正义)。

    文明的代价是永恒的体贴。这就是为什么我们在崩溃的过程中目睹了它:几代人的基因不良的移民和繁殖导致人口变得太愚蠢而无法维持下去。

    回复:@Cauchemar du Singe、@iffen

    , @Alden
    @伍迪·韦弗

    我以前每个工作日晚上做饭时都会看《星际迷航》。从打开冰箱到每个人都坐在餐桌旁的完美时机。

    我立刻注意到这是多样性的宣传。船上每一集都会遇到陌生的人,问题随之而来,然后大家和解,只有和平与爱。顺便说一下,后来扮演杰瑞·宋飞母亲的女演员在《星际迷航》中穿着那些迷你裙,露出了美丽的双腿

    像大多数人一样,我小时候看过《枪烟》。直到退休我才再看。再次,多样性多样性。每一集都是城镇问题中的新来者,然后一切都会好起来,我们都学到了多元文化的教训,不要害怕陌生人。

  15. 滚石?

    The four copies (maybe three) if Rolling Stone that I’ve bought since my teens were purchased because of someone with big tits in the cover, I’m certain.

    Truthfully, I can’t remember an article or feature in the music rag even remotely memorable.

    To report in what Rolling Stone thinks about the repairs on Notre Dame is slightly less valid that Popular Mechanics opinion of the same.

    Maybe Woman’s Day can shed some light?

    If there was a ‘This Old Cathedral’ magazine, I might have perked up, awaiting their input.

    Wasting time with trash like Rolling Stone, who certainly consider themselves important, is like getting your news from the black kid on the ‘Daily Show’. Or any of the other ‘Saturday Night Live’ type news shows.

    I remember when they used to actually be funny. Now they’re just a sad reminder of how far the leftist cancer has spread. Now they represent nothing but another way to slash and tear at the fabric of our country.

    Why do we seek out and repeat the mindless ramblings of actors and comedians? Akin to the court jesters and minstrels of old, I doubt if any kind ever sought their counsel. They represent a group of spoiled people with no work ethic, depraved morals and an entitled sense of self. Yet their opinions and rebuttals litter the headlines as if they actually meant something.

    I don’t care what Bono or Madonna think about life in Africa. I’m not sure why anyone would be foolish enough to ask Jim Carrey about international trade. Would you tap Alec Baldwin on the shoulder and discuss politics?

    It’s long past time to start dismissing this peripheral nonsense and bear down on the real issues before us.

    The issue is, are we, the white race; builders if everything, inventors and innovators of everything touched and used during your day, are we just going to stand aside and let the third world take over the reigns of the world we built and inherit a future they cannot either maintain or understand?

    The answer is a simple – No.

  16. @woody weaver
    I was watching a Star Trek movie which still featured the original cast. A female author of books based upon the original series stated that one of Gene Roddenberry's original purposes in creating the series was the promotion of what we call today "diversity". There will be nothing uniquely French in the rebuilding of the Notre Dame Cathedral if they give in to the social justice warriors and their take on history. To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture. The Cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible. It is meant to be a church where people go to worship, specifically French worshipers. It is more than a tourist attraction but a symbol of French identity. Diversity destroys identity. Diversity blurs the line that identifies distinctions between one people and another. The Cathedral when it is rebuilt, should leave no doubt that is Christian, Catholic, and more importantly in this context, French.

    回复:@先生。 理性,@ Alden

    从古希腊语的意义上来说,被视为希腊人意味着成为希腊人就意味着拥有共同的祭坛、共同的语言和共同的文化。 无神论, 移民和伊斯兰教对于法国传统文化来说都是陌生的。

    其中一件不属于。

    法国和古希腊都有本土的无神论者。随着宗教及其教义越来越落后于知识的洪流,无神论一直在增长,这表明它们是错误的,在许多情况下实际上是青铜时代的神话。总的来说,神学家对新出现的事实实在是太无知了,甚至无法让教义跟上知识海啸的步伐,更不用说站在它前面了。宗教越来越成为无知者逃往的地方,在那里他们可以得到一切重要问题的答案,而不必再思考(尤其是伊斯兰教,还有社会正义)。

    The price of civilization is eternal thoughtfulness.  That’s why we’re witnessing it in the process of collapse:  generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    • 回复: @Cauchemar du Singe
    @先生。 合理的

    Rejection or non-acceptance of organized religion, structured dogma, priesthoods and theological speculators does NOT equal Atheism.
    Agnosticism...doubting, and the realization that much is unknown is also NOT Atheism.
    Faith, whether based on strange experience or an undefined general sense of need, is not mutually exclusive of Science, the material and the temporal.

    Even Satanists aren't atheists, because they grovel to the imagined or real-to-them opposite of The Godhead, Great Spirit, Almighty Father, Cosmic Engineer or whatever term is applied to The Alpha and Omega...

    Ask: What caused The Big Bang ?
    Who lit the fuse, and how, with what, where ?

    Don't get a headache over this.
    Try not to be a douchenozzle, don't associate with scumbags and try to live a good life.
    Keep your RADAR on, carry a spare mag, a blade...a song in your heart and a smile on your face.
    Eventually, all concerns will be resolved.

    , @iffen
    @先生。 合理的

    generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.


    Well, it was a marvel when it was going good.

    回复:@先生。 合理的

  17. 我很惊讶在“兄弟会强奸”的故事之后,RS 并没有被起诉。

    我希望他们能照原样重建圣母院。

    • 回复: @Feedsackroad
    @Technomad


    我希望他们能照原样重建圣母院。
     
    重建巴黎圣母院就像在社区破产后向你的房子里倒钱。 为什么要把钱倒在一个洞里? 五十年后,圣母院将成为一个穆斯林集市。
  18. @Mr. Rational
    @伍迪·韦弗


    从古希腊语的意义上来说,被视为希腊人意味着成为希腊人就意味着拥有共同的祭坛、共同的语言和共同的文化。 无神论, 移民和伊斯兰教对于法国传统文化来说都是陌生的。
     
    其中一件不属于。

    法国和古希腊都有本土的无神论者。随着宗教及其教义越来越落后于知识的洪流,无神论一直在增长,这表明它们是错误的,在许多情况下实际上是青铜时代的神话。总的来说,神学家对新出现的事实实在是太无知了,甚至无法让教义跟上知识海啸的步伐,更不用说站在它前面了。宗教越来越成为无知者逃往的地方,在那里他们可以得到一切重要问题的答案,而不必再思考(尤其是伊斯兰教,还有社会正义)。

    文明的代价是永恒的体贴。这就是为什么我们在崩溃的过程中目睹了它:几代人的基因不良的移民和繁殖导致人口变得太愚蠢而无法维持下去。

    回复:@Cauchemar du Singe、@iffen

    Rejection or non-acceptance of organized religion, structured dogma, priesthoods and theological speculators does NOT equal Atheism.
    Agnosticism…doubting, and the realization that much is unknown is also NOT Atheism.
    Faith, whether based on strange experience or an undefined general sense of need, is not mutually exclusive of Science, the material and the temporal.

    Even Satanists aren’t atheists, because they grovel to the imagined or real-to-them opposite of The Godhead, Great Spirit, Almighty Father, Cosmic Engineer or whatever term is applied to The Alpha and Omega…

    Ask: What caused The Big Bang ?
    Who lit the fuse, and how, with what, where ?

    Don’t get a headache over this.
    Try not to be a douchenozzle, don’t associate with scumbags and try to live a good life.
    Keep your RADAR on, carry a spare mag, a blade…a song in your heart and a smile on your face.
    Eventually, all concerns will be resolved.

  19. @Mr. Rational
    I've already said what I'd do with the restoration, if they put me in charge.

    0.  Power-wash all the soot off everything that's not too delicate for such treatment.

    1.  Rebuild the timber roof structure with galvanized steel beams and trusses, electrically insulated from the copper roofing if necessary to prevent galvanic corrosion.  Ceramic and glass insulators work wonders, and glass as thin as a microscope cover slip will do.  Build something to last for the NEXT 800 years.

    2.  Insulate with incombustible materials like rock wool, where such is necessary.

    3.  Commission sculptors to re-create all the statuary that cannot be repaired.  For all surviving statues and lost statues for which adequately precise photography is available, create computer models sufficient to re-sculpt with multi-axis milling machines.  Offer limited-edition copies to collectors at auction.  Spread the artwork of Notre Dame around the world while raising money.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for the church of Rome, but Notre Dame is a symbol of Western Man and shall not disappear if I have anything to say about it.

    回复:@Lockean Proviso

    The French are good with aerospace and hydraulic technology, so I was thinking Airbus could build a grey or white weave carbon fiber roof in sections that a heavy lift helicopter or cranes could emplace on top sooner to seal from the elements, then put in emergency water plumbing over that with 3D printed sprayers that look like stone rosettes or another period design in a pattern around the new roof. Then a proper copper or bronze roof could be put in on top of that to finish.

  20. Ask Charlie Hebdo about that idea.

  21. @Technomad
    I'm surprised RS hasn't been sued out of existence after that "rape at a frat party" story.

    我希望他们能照原样重建圣母院。

    回复:@Feedsackroad

    我希望他们能照原样重建圣母院。

    重建巴黎圣母院就像在社区破产后向你的房子里倒钱。 为什么要把钱倒在一个洞里? 五十年后,圣母院将成为一个穆斯林集市。

  22. @Mr. Rational
    @伍迪·韦弗


    从古希腊语的意义上来说,被视为希腊人意味着成为希腊人就意味着拥有共同的祭坛、共同的语言和共同的文化。 无神论, 移民和伊斯兰教对于法国传统文化来说都是陌生的。
     
    其中一件不属于。

    法国和古希腊都有本土的无神论者。随着宗教及其教义越来越落后于知识的洪流,无神论一直在增长,这表明它们是错误的,在许多情况下实际上是青铜时代的神话。总的来说,神学家对新出现的事实实在是太无知了,甚至无法让教义跟上知识海啸的步伐,更不用说站在它前面了。宗教越来越成为无知者逃往的地方,在那里他们可以得到一切重要问题的答案,而不必再思考(尤其是伊斯兰教,还有社会正义)。

    文明的代价是永恒的体贴。这就是为什么我们在崩溃的过程中目睹了它:几代人的基因不良的移民和繁殖导致人口变得太愚蠢而无法维持下去。

    回复:@Cauchemar du Singe、@iffen

    generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.

    Well, it was a marvel when it was going good.

    • 回复: @Mr. Rational
    @伊芬


    it was a marvel when it was going good.
     
    We'd have no trouble getting it going again with a wee bit of work.  We just have to return the Africans and crimmigrants and make sure our own dumbest 20% and psychopaths don't breed for a few generations.  Of course we know (((who))) will be screaming about the action against psychopaths, but they're the engine behind the entire problem anyway.
  23. @iffen
    @先生。 合理的

    generations of dysgenic immigration and breeding have led to a population too dumb to keep it going.


    Well, it was a marvel when it was going good.

    回复:@先生。 合理的

    it was a marvel when it was going good.

    We’d have no trouble getting it going again with a wee bit of work.  We just have to return the Africans and crimmigrants and make sure our own dumbest 20% and psychopaths don’t breed for a few generations.  Of course we know (((who))) will be screaming about the action against psychopaths, but they’re the engine behind the entire problem anyway.

  24. Notice how the people who want to put theory and political trendiness ahead of accurately reproducing the fine craftsmanship of the era do not make things.

    Pinault is a manufacturer of fine luxury goods, made in France, so he is focused on being faithful to what was made by the super-skilled artisans, engineers and designers of 8 centuries ago. You don’t need to conjure up respect by concocting elaborate theories, bringing in subjects only peripherally relate to the artwork, when you appreciate how intricate things are made because of making things yourself.

    If any trends of the current era come into play, it should be aging Goths, demanding that the Gothic style they embraced not too long ago be respected. Styles are often resuscitated, hundreds of years after their origination. Nothing is really new.

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral. We have them, too, and Trump could annoy the environmentalists, while distracting attention from the Mueller Report, by sending some big trees from our national forests over to France. It’ll be a good history lesson for the kids. Most of them don’t know who funded the American Revolution or anything much about our history. They know a lot about racial and gender politics.

    • 回复: @Mr. Rational
    @Endgame拿破仑


    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral.
     
    Why trees?  The builders of Notre Dame didn't use wood because it was the best material.  They used it because it was the only thing they had that would do the job.  Why rebuild after a fire with something that will be just as flammable as the original?

    The roof beams don't show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.  Sheathe it in copper to look like the original and you're golden (literally, at least until it develops that green patina).  I can think of ways to make the steel beautiful from the inside as well.  Ponder sweeping arches supporting the roof peaks, graceful trusswork in the beams.  That's where the new can fuse with the old without marring it.

    And as for the spire... steel is a GREAT material for tall things.  Make it 50% taller as a raised middle finger to the black-rock worshippers.
  25. @woody weaver
    I was watching a Star Trek movie which still featured the original cast. A female author of books based upon the original series stated that one of Gene Roddenberry's original purposes in creating the series was the promotion of what we call today "diversity". There will be nothing uniquely French in the rebuilding of the Notre Dame Cathedral if they give in to the social justice warriors and their take on history. To be considered Greek in the ancient sense of the word meant that to be Greek was to share common altars, a common language, and a common culture. Atheism, immigration, and Islam which are all foreign to traditional French culture. The Cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible. It is meant to be a church where people go to worship, specifically French worshipers. It is more than a tourist attraction but a symbol of French identity. Diversity destroys identity. Diversity blurs the line that identifies distinctions between one people and another. The Cathedral when it is rebuilt, should leave no doubt that is Christian, Catholic, and more importantly in this context, French.

    回复:@先生。 理性,@ Alden

    我以前每个工作日晚上做饭时都会看《星际迷航》。从打开冰箱到每个人都坐在餐桌旁的完美时机。

    我立刻注意到这是多样性的宣传。船上每一集都会遇到陌生的人,问题随之而来,然后大家和解,只有和平与爱。顺便说一下,后来扮演杰瑞·宋飞母亲的女演员在《星际迷航》中穿着那些迷你裙,露出了美丽的双腿

    像大多数人一样,我小时候看过《枪烟》。直到退休我才再看。再次,多样性多样性。每一集都是城镇问题中的新来者,然后一切都会好起来,我们都学到了多元文化的教训,不要害怕陌生人。

  26. @Reg Cæsar

    中世纪 天主教
     
    Uh, that's in 大写, Jann.

    It's been a crap magazine covering crap music for 50 years. Why would you expect anything good from them about architecture?

    回复:@Anonymous

    Jann Wenner is a piece of shit and I regret that he wasn’t taken for a good chunk of his personal wealth in court over the Haven Monahan catfishing thing with Sabrina Rubin whateverhernameis.

  27. @Endgame Napoleon
    Notice how the people who want to put theory and political trendiness ahead of accurately reproducing the fine craftsmanship of the era do not make things.

    Pinault is a manufacturer of fine luxury goods, made in France, so he is focused on being faithful to what was made by the super-skilled artisans, engineers and designers of 8 centuries ago. You don’t need to conjure up respect by concocting elaborate theories, bringing in subjects only peripherally relate to the artwork, when you appreciate how intricate things are made because of making things yourself.

    If any trends of the current era come into play, it should be aging Goths, demanding that the Gothic style they embraced not too long ago be respected. Styles are often resuscitated, hundreds of years after their origination. Nothing is really new.

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral. We have them, too, and Trump could annoy the environmentalists, while distracting attention from the Mueller Report, by sending some big trees from our national forests over to France. It’ll be a good history lesson for the kids. Most of them don’t know who funded the American Revolution or anything much about our history. They know a lot about racial and gender politics.

    回复:@先生。 合理的

    Because they funded our revolution and gave us the Statue of Liberty, the USA owes France the “big trees” it needs to properly restore the roof of the Notre Dame cathedral.

    Why trees?  The builders of Notre Dame didn’t use wood because it was the best material.  They used it because it was the only thing they had that would do the job.  Why rebuild after a fire with something that will be just as flammable as the original?

    The roof beams don’t show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.  Sheathe it in copper to look like the original and you’re golden (literally, at least until it develops that green patina).  I can think of ways to make the steel beautiful from the inside as well.  Ponder sweeping arches supporting the roof peaks, graceful trusswork in the beams.  That’s where the new can fuse with the old without marring it.

    And as for the spire… steel is a GREAT material for tall things.  Make it 50% taller as a raised middle finger to the black-rock worshippers.

  28. The roof beams don’t show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.

    Not in all respects, but some respects. Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel. Wood may rot, but so does steel. Two hundred year old steel is a rarity, other than old weapons damaged by being buried, and my guess is no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust. Steel also loses strength when it ages, wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2×4? By the way, 800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant. It’s very dense.

    • 回复: @Mr. Rational
    Cu


    Two hundred year old steel is a rarity
     
    Steel has this thing called "scrap value".  You can always make steel into new steel.  This is a much more involved process with wood.

    no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust.
     
    The Brooklyn Bridge is 136 years old and holding up nicely.  The Iron Bridge in Shropshire is 238 years old and doing quite well also.  These things will stay up as long as they're useful; you can find video of much newer bridges being dynamited because they've become obsolete.  I don't see Notre Dame becoming obsolete.

    Steel also loses strength when it ages
     
    Citation needed.  There are things such as precipitation-hardening alloys which change properties with age, but aside from fatigue and corrosion I know of no such behavior in conventional steel.

    wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2×4?
     
    I've run Romex through century-old oak and maple floor joists.  It's hard, but it's also brittle.

    800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant.
     
    You also have the 800-year-old roof boards below the metal sheathing, most less than an inch thick.  Once something got those lit, the reflected heat inside a closed attic would be enough to get the beams to char.  And they wouldn't even have to burn through; once deprived of the bracing provided by the smaller pieces between them, the beams would fall.

    The repair workers were supposedly patching eroded lead surfaces.  This means molten metal, meaning crucibles and fuel to heat them.  There's your accelerant.

    Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel.
     
    This is why the redesign should eliminate combustibles, period.  If the outer surface is to be done over in lead, the support beneath it should be something like steel coated in porcelain (to eliminate electrolytic corrosion).  Imagine the whole thing done with the metal skinned in white and gold glass, so the inside glowed.  It would be 美丽.
  29. @Curmudgeon

    The roof beams don’t show from the outside, and steel is a huge improvement over wood in all respects including flammability.
     
    Not in all respects, but some respects. Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel. Wood may rot, but so does steel. Two hundred year old steel is a rarity, other than old weapons damaged by being buried, and my guess is no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust. Steel also loses strength when it ages, wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2x4? By the way, 800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant. It's very dense.

    回复:@先生。 合理的

    Two hundred year old steel is a rarity

    Steel has this thing called “scrap value”.  You can always make steel into new steel.  This is a much more involved process with wood.

    no one will ever see a steel beam 800 years old, because they rust.

    The Brooklyn Bridge is 136 years old and holding up nicely.  The Iron Bridge in Shropshire is 238 years old and doing quite well also.  These things will stay up as long as they’re useful; you can find video of much newer bridges being dynamited because they’ve become obsolete.  I don’t see Notre Dame becoming obsolete.

    Steel also loses strength when it ages

    Citation needed.  There are things such as precipitation-hardening alloys which change properties with age, but aside from fatigue and corrosion I know of no such behavior in conventional steel.

    wood gets harder. Ever tried to hammer a nail into a 50 year old 2×4?

    I’ve run Romex through century-old oak and maple floor joists.  It’s hard, but it’s also brittle.

    800 year old oak would not burn like that without an accelerant.

    You also have the 800-year-old roof boards below the metal sheathing, most less than an inch thick.  Once something got those lit, the reflected heat inside a closed attic would be enough to get the beams to char.  And they wouldn’t even have to burn through; once deprived of the bracing provided by the smaller pieces between them, the beams would fall.

    The repair workers were supposedly patching eroded lead surfaces.  This means molten metal, meaning crucibles and fuel to heat them.  There’s your accelerant.

    Wood beams retain their support strength during a fire at a more predictable rate than steel.

    This is why the redesign should eliminate combustibles, period.  If the outer surface is to be done over in lead, the support beneath it should be something like steel coated in porcelain (to eliminate electrolytic corrosion).  Imagine the whole thing done with the metal skinned in white and gold glass, so the inside glowed.  It would be 美丽.

  30. @NY Girl
    这些白痴受过高等教育的“历史学家”应该闭上他们该死的漏洞。

    法国天主教会是 乞讨 为急需的维修捐款,而法国却没有采取任何行动。大教堂是 RCC 的财产,如果你认为他们会在顶部建一座该死的尖塔,那你就有了另一种想法。

    顺便说一句:在你知道他们将如何修复之前,不要考虑捐钱。

    回复:@Carlo

    事实上,大教堂属于法国国家,天主教会是唯一永久的受益者:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Ownership
    因此,不幸的是,法国政府几乎可以为所欲为,看看今天谁掌权,我们不能指望有什么好结果。

  31. 我确信(至少)不会让一场好的危机白白浪费。我敢打赌这次翻修会让我们想起以色列最高法院大楼中的共济会设计主题。

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