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Here’s another Open Thread for the Karlin commenting community since the previous one has gotten very long and sluggish to load, jump starting it by moving a couple of the previous comments.

— Ron Unz

 
• Tags: Blogging, Open Thread 
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  1. Don’t know if I have the authority (I’d guess not), but I’d like invite the top draw, recent exiles of racist Twitter to comment here occasionally, as I miss their antiwoke witticisms.

  2. Another idea I have is to come up with a historical civilizational index, based on beach bods. Collect sample pics by year, and show them to foreigners to rate.

    Maybe, it is not a fair comparison, but I feel like if you look at the beaches near Tokyo, you can still see a few pretty girls. But, right now, it would be difficult to find them in many places in the West. What does Long Beach look like now?

    • Replies: @Nodwink
    @songbird

    Hot women have more financial opportunities now to show off their bodies for paying customers. Showing off your wares at the beach is basically giving away content. I reckon the women making money from "lewds" cover up at the beach.

    Replies: @Pericles

  3. German_reader says:

    Spain’s left-wing government has called for toys to go on strike against sexism:
    https://spainsnews.com/toys-go-on-strike-to-end-sexism/

    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense. This is a country where the last “heretic” was executed in the 1820s and which had a regime heavily favouring Catholicism a mere 50 years ago, and yet its left-wingers are among the craziest in Europe (and long have been).

    And many thanks again to Ron Unz for having created a new Open thread, it’s very generous, and I think I can say for all regular commenters that we appreciate it very much!

    • Agree: songbird, sher singh
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense. This is a country where the last “heretic” was executed in the 1820s and which had a regime heavily favouring Catholicism a mere 50 years ago, and yet its left-wingers are among the craziest in Europe (and long have been).
     
    I think the fact that Catholicism is either relatively based (or in those Integralist forms very based) isn't nonsense in itself, but what is being highlighted here is that many people in nominally Catholic countries reject it or strongly rebel against it. Spain is a classic example because to establish the National Catholic state and Franco's absolute rule they had to fight a hard civil war against half of the country, so that following the establishment of a liberal democratic system there has been a strong counter reaction.

    Wokeness, in terms of intersectionality, was created in an Anglo-North American context, so it isn't surprising that the most intersectional countries are the US and Canada, then Australia, New Zealand, UK and then that it has spread out into the rest of Europe from there.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense.
     
    Iberia as a whole is exceptionally progressive for reasons that are not entirely clear to me. If you look at polling data for Greece or Italy on questions like immigration or similar hotbutton issues you will find a much greater right-wing bloc. The Iberian peninsula is basically the sunnier, browner and slightly more corrupt version of Sweden.

    I do not think this has much to do with Catholicism. It seems to be an outlier for domestic cultural reasons - certainly when compared to other Med countries. Sadly, I am not aware of a single person of Iberian origin on this blog, so we can't get much insight into why this the case.

    Replies: @Mikel

  4. Iran destroys more of Lebanon

    The Nasrallah-shima blast where Iranian Hezbollah destroyed the Beirut Port was apparently not enough.

    Now Iranian Hamas has also blown up part of Lebanon near the Port of Tyre: (1)

    “Initial reports suggested the incident began with a fire in a diesel tanker before spreading to a nearby mosque controlled by Hamas,” Deutsche Welle and various agencies wrote.

    “Footage shared by local media showed a number of small, bright red flashes above the port city, followed by a blast and the sound of glass shattering,” the report added.

    “Hamas maintains a presence in a number of Palestinian camps in Lebanon,” said Al Jazeera. “The NNA said the army cordoned off the area, preventing people from entering or leaving the camp.”

    How many more must die before Iran leaves Lebanon?

    Is a partition inevitable?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/huge-blast-rocks-refugee-camp-lebanon-large-casualties-feared

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @A123

    Nonsense. Isreal blew up the fertilizer storage a year or two back and some fairly credible evidence was posted that that was a low-yield nuke. Anything that happens to Lebanon is Israeli-led. Showing pictures of an explosion is evidence Iran did it? You're hilarious, 123. Israel doesn't have the courage to go into Lebanon, so they use terror tactics. This is more of the same. But I have an open mind. Where did the "evidence" come from? Because Iran has no reason to bomb Lebanon, Israel, many.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
    @A123

    Perhaps the MOST Evil Sabbat Goy, ever, gloating over the prospect of civil war in Lebanon. The Zionazis really attract the scum de la scum.

  5. Reply to AP in the previous thread:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-170/#comment-5062526

    Wokism is the newest American Protestant religious revival. It very closely parallels American Protestantism. Catholics becoming woke is analogous to Catholics converting to charismatic Protestant faiths, as is occurring in Brazil.

    Here a Protestant minister highlights the specific Protestant characteristics of Wokeness:

    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.

    Latin American liberation theology met with approval in the United States, but its use of “Marxist concepts” led in the mid-1980s to an admonition by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). While stating that “in itself, the expression ‘theology of liberation’ is a thoroughly valid term”, the prefect Cardinal Ratzinger rejected certain forms of Latin American liberation theology for focusing on institutionalized or systemic sin and for identifying Catholic Church hierarchy in South America as members of the same privileged class that had long been oppressing indigenous populations from the arrival of Pizarro onward.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    —-

    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.

    *Their governance over Amerindians in the Southern Cone was even praised by Rousseau, Voltaire and Montesquieu.

    —-

    As for Protestantism causing the French Revolution, the root causes of dissatisfaction with the traditional Catholic order were rather similar in France, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Latin America; which led to similar Anti-Clerical sentiments and movements – though the degree of success and violence varies by country and era.

    It is fine to reject the anti-clericals, but simply blaming Protestantism without understanding their dissatisfaction with Integralism will merely lead to a Québécois-like Silent Revolution for any future neo-traditionalist régime.

    —-

    I have no antipathy towards Catholics, but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:

    I want to suggest a principle of immigration priority that should, I hope, be broadly acceptable or at least intriguing for all right-thinking persons concerned that current American immigration policy is racist and classist, explicitly or implicitly, de jure or de facto. The principle is to give lexical priority to confirmed Catholics, all of whom will jump immediately to the head of the queue. Yes, some will convert in order to gain admission; this is a feature, not a bug.

    This principle will disproportionately favor immigrants from Africa, Asia, and Latin America. (Note here that the priority is for actual Catholics, not for applicants from “historically Catholic countries”; relatively few Western Europeans will pass through the eye of the needle, and the Irish will be almost totally excluded). It will disproportionately favor the poor, and will draw no distinction between those seeking asylum based on a fear of persecution, and those fleeing “mere” economic hardship. It will in effect require opening the southern border of the United States, although immigration from Canada will rightly become a rare and difficult event, at least if we do not count a small subset of Quebecois.

    I venture to say that any opposition to this proposal almost necessarily defends some alternative principle of immigration priority that allocates fewer spots to non-whites and to the poor, and is thus a troubling indicator of racism and classism infesting whoever voices that opposition. We must overcome the know-nothing bigotry of the past. As the superb blog Semiduplex observes, Catholics need to rethink the nation-state. We have come a long way, but we still have far to go — towards the eventual formation of the Empire of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and ultimately the world government required by natural law.

    https://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2019/07/a-principle-of-immigration-priority-.html

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:
     
    I'm not sure if Vermeule isn't trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he's serious, he's obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that's just delusional.

    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church, as if there had been no reason for discontent at all. A lot of them also don't seem to realize that the all-controlling rule of the papacy over the church (with its pretensions to power over secular rulers) was a creation of the later 11th century, which from the start had aroused intense criticism from contemporaries and led to extremely bitter conflicts. Arguably much of the reformation was destructive (and I don't have much sympathy for something like Calvinism either), but the anti-Rome sentiment had very deep roots, for good reasons.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Hyperborean

    , @AP
    @Hyperborean


    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.
     
    Jesuit efforts in Latin America certainly wasn't de-Europeanisation!

    The Jesuits brilliantly taught the natives of South America to build beautiful baroque churches in the jungles and savannahs:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Ruinas-saomiguel13.jpg

    https://static.dw.com/image/19510452_303.jpg

    They also taught the previously savage natives to play beautiful baroque music:

    https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/paraguay604/music.html

    "These missions, known as reducciones, became home and refuge to thousands of Paraguay's Guarani Indians. The missionaries not only provided shelter but also taught the Guarani people to play European music and make their own instruments, including the cello, harp and violin. Each mission had a church, an orchestra, several artisans' shops, and schools of music and painting."

    The Natives were even composing such music!

    An example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeYBdGN7OQ

    This was essentially the opposite of wokeness, which is now trying to nullify Western civilization, even to the point of introducing pre-Christian demon-"gods" to Mexican-American children.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/sep/3/parents-sue-california-over-mandated-chants-aztec-/

    "A group of parents in California sued the State Board of Education Friday over a proposed new “Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum” (ESMC) that would have public school students chanting affirmations to Aztec gods and invoking an ancient Nigerian Yoruba religious prayer."

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.


    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.
     
    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Hyperborean, @Aedib, @Yevardian

  6. There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.
     
    Something of an over simplification on your part.

    A wealthly husband can support more children. Thus, you want enough Citizen 4-year+ graduates to fill those economic roles. Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.

    Four year degrees in the arts that are potential bastions of "victim studies" (gender, ethnic, etc.) should be shutdown entirely. Science & business fields could be reviewed by the number of "Post Docs" stuck serving as underpaid adjunct lecturers.
    ____

    Another improvement that would help -- Students Loans should only be available based on future earning potential. "High Debt / Low Pay" blocks family formation. AOC's loan forgiveness is a silly idea. Prevention is the sensible answer.

    There is a concept problem with the idea of Student Loans. Some % of students inevitably start but never finish a degree program. This can also lead to the "High Debt / Low Pay" trap. Ideally people should save first and then go to University.

    Public Universities with much lower tuition do well in the Southern U.S. However these also come with their own political complications.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @iffen

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @songbird

    Steelmanning their argument produces a different conclusion. "Education" spending means more and more free childcare. The apotheosis of which would be free year round boarding school, with everything included, up to the age of 21. Obviously that is not going to happen, but you can see how having more children would be easier and easier the closer the government got to offering that service.

    Replies: @songbird

  7. @songbird
    There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.

    Replies: @A123, @Triteleia Laxa

    There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.

    Something of an over simplification on your part.

    A wealthly husband can support more children. Thus, you want enough Citizen 4-year+ graduates to fill those economic roles. Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.

    Four year degrees in the arts that are potential bastions of “victim studies” (gender, ethnic, etc.) should be shutdown entirely. Science & business fields could be reviewed by the number of “Post Docs” stuck serving as underpaid adjunct lecturers.
    ____

    Another improvement that would help — Students Loans should only be available based on future earning potential. “High Debt / Low Pay” blocks family formation. AOC’s loan forgiveness is a silly idea. Prevention is the sensible answer.

    There is a concept problem with the idea of Student Loans. Some % of students inevitably start but never finish a degree program. This can also lead to the “High Debt / Low Pay” trap. Ideally people should save first and then go to University.

    Public Universities with much lower tuition do well in the Southern U.S. However these also come with their own political complications.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.
     
    Probably takes less than two minutes to flash the rom of a good surgical robot, albeit longer to build on the assembly line. A lot of diagnosis could be done with the aid of computer automation, better testing, and more listening to the patient.

    I'd much rather have such a system, where I was interacting with highly intelligent two year specialists, who might spend 20 minutes on a problem, rather than middling 8 year plus doctors, who I have to see, just to get to a middling 10 year plus specialist, who wants to spend 5 minutes on a problem and will break out the google in front of me.

    And as a fringe benefit, the two year specialists, would have more nimble minds, due to being younger, and would also have higher fertility, so that future generations would probably have more, rather than run out of them.

    Surveys have consistently found that people remember little of anything from education. Its most important function is to be a sorting mechanism, but this could be handled much more efficiently, in a shorter time frame.

    Some of the difference could be made up by track education in high school. The rest by apprenticeship and testing.

    BTW, James Watt never got a college education.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @iffen
    @A123

    Or we could just sit back and let the breeders breed.

  8. German_reader says:
    @Hyperborean
    Reply to AP in the previous thread:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-170/#comment-5062526

    Wokism is the newest American Protestant religious revival. It very closely parallels American Protestantism. Catholics becoming woke is analogous to Catholics converting to charismatic Protestant faiths, as is occurring in Brazil.

     


    Here a Protestant minister highlights the specific Protestant characteristics of Wokeness:
     
    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.

    Latin American liberation theology met with approval in the United States, but its use of “Marxist concepts” led in the mid-1980s to an admonition by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). While stating that “in itself, the expression ‘theology of liberation’ is a thoroughly valid term”, the prefect Cardinal Ratzinger rejected certain forms of Latin American liberation theology for focusing on institutionalized or systemic sin and for identifying Catholic Church hierarchy in South America as members of the same privileged class that had long been oppressing indigenous populations from the arrival of Pizarro onward.
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    —-

    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.

    *Their governance over Amerindians in the Southern Cone was even praised by Rousseau, Voltaire and Montesquieu.

    —-

    As for Protestantism causing the French Revolution, the root causes of dissatisfaction with the traditional Catholic order were rather similar in France, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Latin America; which led to similar Anti-Clerical sentiments and movements – though the degree of success and violence varies by country and era.

    It is fine to reject the anti-clericals, but simply blaming Protestantism without understanding their dissatisfaction with Integralism will merely lead to a Québécois-like Silent Revolution for any future neo-traditionalist régime.

    —-

    I have no antipathy towards Catholics, but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:

    I want to suggest a principle of immigration priority that should, I hope, be broadly acceptable or at least intriguing for all right-thinking persons concerned that current American immigration policy is racist and classist, explicitly or implicitly, de jure or de facto. The principle is to give lexical priority to confirmed Catholics, all of whom will jump immediately to the head of the queue. Yes, some will convert in order to gain admission; this is a feature, not a bug.

    This principle will disproportionately favor immigrants from Africa, Asia, and Latin America. (Note here that the priority is for actual Catholics, not for applicants from “historically Catholic countries”; relatively few Western Europeans will pass through the eye of the needle, and the Irish will be almost totally excluded). It will disproportionately favor the poor, and will draw no distinction between those seeking asylum based on a fear of persecution, and those fleeing “mere” economic hardship. It will in effect require opening the southern border of the United States, although immigration from Canada will rightly become a rare and difficult event, at least if we do not count a small subset of Quebecois.

    I venture to say that any opposition to this proposal almost necessarily defends some alternative principle of immigration priority that allocates fewer spots to non-whites and to the poor, and is thus a troubling indicator of racism and classism infesting whoever voices that opposition. We must overcome the know-nothing bigotry of the past. As the superb blog Semiduplex observes, Catholics need to rethink the nation-state. We have come a long way, but we still have far to go — towards the eventual formation of the Empire of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and ultimately the world government required by natural law.
     
    https://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2019/07/a-principle-of-immigration-priority-.html

    Replies: @German_reader, @AP

    but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:

    I’m not sure if Vermeule isn’t trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he’s serious, he’s obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that’s just delusional.

    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church, as if there had been no reason for discontent at all. A lot of them also don’t seem to realize that the all-controlling rule of the papacy over the church (with its pretensions to power over secular rulers) was a creation of the later 11th century, which from the start had aroused intense criticism from contemporaries and led to extremely bitter conflicts. Arguably much of the reformation was destructive (and I don’t have much sympathy for something like Calvinism either), but the anti-Rome sentiment had very deep roots, for good reasons.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church.
     
    Integralism is not mainly based on the analysis of a historically specific golden age, and deducing what political factors made it great, but on deduction of the appropriate kind of political regime from the eternal truths about human nature and the telos of human life it claims are found in the teaching of the Catholic Church, mostly based on the Bible, Aristotle and Plato with some later commentary and teaching which is in the same tradition (Aquinas, Bellarmine, some of the Popes and councils).

    Imo it is more akin to what Evola is doing in his books about politics, how things should be based on transcendent Tradition, than something that has obvious practical applications at the moment. Using it seems to be mainly motivated by a desire to find alternatives to Liberalism, because the latter looks like it is crumbling.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Hyperborean
    @German_reader


    I’m not sure if Vermeule isn’t trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he’s serious, he’s obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that’s just delusional.
     
    Granted, regarding immigration this is the only direct statement from Vermeule that I can find from skimming the internet, so it is hard to know how much he really means it - but as to his general legal philosophy he seems genuine.

    Vermeule calls papal teaching on integralism “irreformable.” Whether it is or isn’t is not a question for me to take up, but it does indicate how seriously he takes this. At that same conference, Gladden Pappin, an integralist academic and close collaborator of Vermeule’s praised the Chinese Communist regime for having a ministry that clearly lays out what the spiritual goals of a society should be — this, by contrast to the US, which has no such office:

    He thinks the US should have such an office, and that it should be the Catholic Church. How do we get to that place in a minority-Catholic country, in which the Catholic Church is hemorrhaging members? They don’t tell us.

    Well, actually, Vermeule does tell us. Until such time as they can take over, he told the Notre Dame audience, integralist Catholics ought to march through the governing institutions, with the long-term goal of overturning liberalism
     

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/what-do-integralists-want-reactionary-catholicism/

    Dreher includes some telling extracts from a book called Integralism: A Manual of Political Philosophy, by Thomas Crean and Alan Fimister. While I don't know the authors and therefore how prominent they are, they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.

    ---

    Vermeule personally seems a bit tone-deaf:


    Finally, unlike legal liberalism, common-good constitutionalism does not suffer from a horror of political domination and hierarchy, because it sees that law is parental, a wise teacher and an inculcator of good habits. Just authority in rulers can be exercised for the good of subjects, if necessary even against the subjects’ own perceptions of what is best for them—perceptions that may change over time anyway, as the law teaches, habituates, and re-forms them. Subjects will come to thank the ruler whose legal strictures, possibly experienced at first as coercive, encourage subjects to form more authentic desires for the individual and common goods, better habits, and beliefs that better track and promote communal well-being.
     
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/common-good-constitutionalism/609037/

    -----

    I am not unsympathetic to their perspective, in a general sense. Although American history as praxis has plenty of sources one can draw from as inspiration, in theory the American philosophical canon doesn't really have any deep conservative sources in a continental European sense. So seeing classical liberals and libertarians constantly making 'The Conservative Case for X' while being unable to have a theoretical language for one's frustrations and objections, especially after the failures of the last decades, can't be very helpful.

    But to durably hold power (and not merely capture it) they need some sort of engagement with the concerns of non-Catholic and secular Americans.

    Replies: @German_reader

  9. @German_reader
    Spain’s left-wing government has called for toys to go on strike against sexism:
    https://spainsnews.com/toys-go-on-strike-to-end-sexism/

    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense. This is a country where the last “heretic” was executed in the 1820s and which had a regime heavily favouring Catholicism a mere 50 years ago, and yet its left-wingers are among the craziest in Europe (and long have been).

    And many thanks again to Ron Unz for having created a new Open thread, it's very generous, and I think I can say for all regular commenters that we appreciate it very much!

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Thulean Friend

    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense. This is a country where the last “heretic” was executed in the 1820s and which had a regime heavily favouring Catholicism a mere 50 years ago, and yet its left-wingers are among the craziest in Europe (and long have been).

    I think the fact that Catholicism is either relatively based (or in those Integralist forms very based) isn’t nonsense in itself, but what is being highlighted here is that many people in nominally Catholic countries reject it or strongly rebel against it. Spain is a classic example because to establish the National Catholic state and Franco’s absolute rule they had to fight a hard civil war against half of the country, so that following the establishment of a liberal democratic system there has been a strong counter reaction.

    Wokeness, in terms of intersectionality, was created in an Anglo-North American context, so it isn’t surprising that the most intersectional countries are the US and Canada, then Australia, New Zealand, UK and then that it has spread out into the rest of Europe from there.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    but what is being highlighted here is that many people in nominally Catholic countries reject it or strongly rebel against it.
     
    That's true, but if so much of the population reacts against Catholic hegemony by embracing the most deranged kind of left-wing activism, it's not really a system that has achieved its goal of inoculating people against left-wing fanaticism, as proponents of "based Catholicism" would claim.
    Personally I think Catholicism vs Protestantism doesn't explain all that much in today's Western Europe, other factors seem to be more decisive.
  10. @songbird
    There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.

    Replies: @A123, @Triteleia Laxa

    Steelmanning their argument produces a different conclusion. “Education” spending means more and more free childcare. The apotheosis of which would be free year round boarding school, with everything included, up to the age of 21. Obviously that is not going to happen, but you can see how having more children would be easier and easier the closer the government got to offering that service.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Seems to be mainly directed at subsidies for tertiary education. Japan is in the midst of its own student loan crisis, with similar horror stories of young women turning to prostitution because they can't afford to pay the loans back on the paltry salary that they make.

    Getting more young ladies into prostitution should probably be considered another benefit for the middle-aged who conspire to protect their positions by promoting credentialism.

  11. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense. This is a country where the last “heretic” was executed in the 1820s and which had a regime heavily favouring Catholicism a mere 50 years ago, and yet its left-wingers are among the craziest in Europe (and long have been).
     
    I think the fact that Catholicism is either relatively based (or in those Integralist forms very based) isn't nonsense in itself, but what is being highlighted here is that many people in nominally Catholic countries reject it or strongly rebel against it. Spain is a classic example because to establish the National Catholic state and Franco's absolute rule they had to fight a hard civil war against half of the country, so that following the establishment of a liberal democratic system there has been a strong counter reaction.

    Wokeness, in terms of intersectionality, was created in an Anglo-North American context, so it isn't surprising that the most intersectional countries are the US and Canada, then Australia, New Zealand, UK and then that it has spread out into the rest of Europe from there.

    Replies: @German_reader

    but what is being highlighted here is that many people in nominally Catholic countries reject it or strongly rebel against it.

    That’s true, but if so much of the population reacts against Catholic hegemony by embracing the most deranged kind of left-wing activism, it’s not really a system that has achieved its goal of inoculating people against left-wing fanaticism, as proponents of “based Catholicism” would claim.
    Personally I think Catholicism vs Protestantism doesn’t explain all that much in today’s Western Europe, other factors seem to be more decisive.

    • Agree: iffen
  12. @A123
    @songbird


    There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.
     
    Something of an over simplification on your part.

    A wealthly husband can support more children. Thus, you want enough Citizen 4-year+ graduates to fill those economic roles. Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.

    Four year degrees in the arts that are potential bastions of "victim studies" (gender, ethnic, etc.) should be shutdown entirely. Science & business fields could be reviewed by the number of "Post Docs" stuck serving as underpaid adjunct lecturers.
    ____

    Another improvement that would help -- Students Loans should only be available based on future earning potential. "High Debt / Low Pay" blocks family formation. AOC's loan forgiveness is a silly idea. Prevention is the sensible answer.

    There is a concept problem with the idea of Student Loans. Some % of students inevitably start but never finish a degree program. This can also lead to the "High Debt / Low Pay" trap. Ideally people should save first and then go to University.

    Public Universities with much lower tuition do well in the Southern U.S. However these also come with their own political complications.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @iffen

    Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.

    Probably takes less than two minutes to flash the rom of a good surgical robot, albeit longer to build on the assembly line. A lot of diagnosis could be done with the aid of computer automation, better testing, and more listening to the patient.

    [MORE]

    I’d much rather have such a system, where I was interacting with highly intelligent two year specialists, who might spend 20 minutes on a problem, rather than middling 8 year plus doctors, who I have to see, just to get to a middling 10 year plus specialist, who wants to spend 5 minutes on a problem and will break out the google in front of me.

    And as a fringe benefit, the two year specialists, would have more nimble minds, due to being younger, and would also have higher fertility, so that future generations would probably have more, rather than run out of them.

    Surveys have consistently found that people remember little of anything from education. Its most important function is to be a sorting mechanism, but this could be handled much more efficiently, in a shorter time frame.

    Some of the difference could be made up by track education in high school. The rest by apprenticeship and testing.

    BTW, James Watt never got a college education.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird


    to get to a middling 10 year plus specialist, who wants to spend 5 minutes on a problem and will break out the google in front of me.
     
    My own experience with doctors is 50-50. The last time I went to a physician (~10 years ago) he asked me questions and typed into his laptop and it was obvious he was operating a diagnosis tree program. He touched my chest with a stethoscope for less than a minute and the only other person who made any actual contact with me was the nurse who attached a blood pressure sleeve to my arm and an oxygen meter to my finger.

    If your problem isn't on a main branch of that diagnosis tree I guess I don't want to know what happens.

    Replies: @A123

  13. And many thanks again to Ron Unz for having created a new Open thread, it’s very generous, and I think I can say for all regular commenters that we appreciate it very much!

    It’s like having a rich uncle who gives you that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @iffen
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.

    It wasn't the money. They didn't want you to shoot your eye out.

    Replies: @Max Demian

  14. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:
     
    I'm not sure if Vermeule isn't trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he's serious, he's obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that's just delusional.

    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church, as if there had been no reason for discontent at all. A lot of them also don't seem to realize that the all-controlling rule of the papacy over the church (with its pretensions to power over secular rulers) was a creation of the later 11th century, which from the start had aroused intense criticism from contemporaries and led to extremely bitter conflicts. Arguably much of the reformation was destructive (and I don't have much sympathy for something like Calvinism either), but the anti-Rome sentiment had very deep roots, for good reasons.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Hyperborean

    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church.

    Integralism is not mainly based on the analysis of a historically specific golden age, and deducing what political factors made it great, but on deduction of the appropriate kind of political regime from the eternal truths about human nature and the telos of human life it claims are found in the teaching of the Catholic Church, mostly based on the Bible, Aristotle and Plato with some later commentary and teaching which is in the same tradition (Aquinas, Bellarmine, some of the Popes and councils).

    Imo it is more akin to what Evola is doing in his books about politics, how things should be based on transcendent Tradition, than something that has obvious practical applications at the moment. Using it seems to be mainly motivated by a desire to find alternatives to Liberalism, because the latter looks like it is crumbling.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts

    Thanks. I have to admit I know very little about Integralism, especially its present-day proponents...do they ever get more specific about the kind of state they would like to construct? Do they have any historical models at all, or is it just a vague appeal to principles? I don't think a return to throne and altar monarchism could be seen as plausible today by any but the most deluded, but what are the alternatives? Some kind of authoritarian corporatism with a special role for the Catholic church, like Franco tried to implement?

    Replies: @Coconuts

  15. Another horror idea: find a near double of Tony Blair, who I think must be the slimiest-looking person in history, and try to bridge the rest of the gap with make-up and acting. Turn him into a character actor, doing the sort of roles that made Peter Lorre, Christopher Lee, and Bela Lugosi famous.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @songbird

    "Dear audience, sit back, relax and watch some true horror."

  16. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church.
     
    Integralism is not mainly based on the analysis of a historically specific golden age, and deducing what political factors made it great, but on deduction of the appropriate kind of political regime from the eternal truths about human nature and the telos of human life it claims are found in the teaching of the Catholic Church, mostly based on the Bible, Aristotle and Plato with some later commentary and teaching which is in the same tradition (Aquinas, Bellarmine, some of the Popes and councils).

    Imo it is more akin to what Evola is doing in his books about politics, how things should be based on transcendent Tradition, than something that has obvious practical applications at the moment. Using it seems to be mainly motivated by a desire to find alternatives to Liberalism, because the latter looks like it is crumbling.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Thanks. I have to admit I know very little about Integralism, especially its present-day proponents…do they ever get more specific about the kind of state they would like to construct? Do they have any historical models at all, or is it just a vague appeal to principles? I don’t think a return to throne and altar monarchism could be seen as plausible today by any but the most deluded, but what are the alternatives? Some kind of authoritarian corporatism with a special role for the Catholic church, like Franco tried to implement?

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader

    AFAIK the French ones want to recreate a kind of decentralised monarchy based on the Action Francaise tradition. I haven't paid much attention to the US ones because I thought at this stage they are probably more about putting out powerful takes and trolling people like Dreher.

    The book by Fr. Thomas Crean and Alan Fimister 'Integralism' is a good introduction to the theory, but I read it as being about core political theory and philosophy, rather than something setting out a contemporary political program. I found it informative for understanding Catholic historic political philosophy, and also things like Fascist ideology, the Portuguese and pre-war French right etc. I suspect Liberal Catholics didn't like anyone drawing attention to this older Catholic theory and so didn't like the book, even though much of the content would have been banal in the context of 1940s or 50s Catholicism.

    In terms of real world regimes Salazar seems to be a reference, but this kind of thing is still mainly cultural and ideological at this time and appears to be a small trend even within Catholicism (like Bronze Age Pervert for Catholics) so they are probably still thinking about things like this.

    From what I know of Franco, he ruled as a kind of absolute monarch 'by the grace of God' and non-Catholics didn't have full citizens rights, Spanish bishops as a body led the arguments against recognising freedom of religious belief at the 2nd Vatican council in the early 60s for example. But this was unusual in that the regime came out of a major civil war.

  17. @Triteleia Laxa
    @songbird

    Steelmanning their argument produces a different conclusion. "Education" spending means more and more free childcare. The apotheosis of which would be free year round boarding school, with everything included, up to the age of 21. Obviously that is not going to happen, but you can see how having more children would be easier and easier the closer the government got to offering that service.

    Replies: @songbird

    Seems to be mainly directed at subsidies for tertiary education. Japan is in the midst of its own student loan crisis, with similar horror stories of young women turning to prostitution because they can’t afford to pay the loans back on the paltry salary that they make.

    Getting more young ladies into prostitution should probably be considered another benefit for the middle-aged who conspire to protect their positions by promoting credentialism.

  18. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:
     
    I'm not sure if Vermeule isn't trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he's serious, he's obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that's just delusional.

    Regarding the general issue, I think a lot of Catholic conservatives really have an absurdly idealised view of the medieval and early modern Catholic church, as if there had been no reason for discontent at all. A lot of them also don't seem to realize that the all-controlling rule of the papacy over the church (with its pretensions to power over secular rulers) was a creation of the later 11th century, which from the start had aroused intense criticism from contemporaries and led to extremely bitter conflicts. Arguably much of the reformation was destructive (and I don't have much sympathy for something like Calvinism either), but the anti-Rome sentiment had very deep roots, for good reasons.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Hyperborean

    I’m not sure if Vermeule isn’t trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he’s serious, he’s obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that’s just delusional.

    Granted, regarding immigration this is the only direct statement from Vermeule that I can find from skimming the internet, so it is hard to know how much he really means it – but as to his general legal philosophy he seems genuine.

    Vermeule calls papal teaching on integralism “irreformable.” Whether it is or isn’t is not a question for me to take up, but it does indicate how seriously he takes this. At that same conference, Gladden Pappin, an integralist academic and close collaborator of Vermeule’s praised the Chinese Communist regime for having a ministry that clearly lays out what the spiritual goals of a society should be — this, by contrast to the US, which has no such office:

    He thinks the US should have such an office, and that it should be the Catholic Church. How do we get to that place in a minority-Catholic country, in which the Catholic Church is hemorrhaging members? They don’t tell us.

    Well, actually, Vermeule does tell us. Until such time as they can take over, he told the Notre Dame audience, integralist Catholics ought to march through the governing institutions, with the long-term goal of overturning liberalism

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/what-do-integralists-want-reactionary-catholicism/

    Dreher includes some telling extracts from a book called Integralism: A Manual of Political Philosophy, by Thomas Crean and Alan Fimister. While I don’t know the authors and therefore how prominent they are, they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.

    Vermeule personally seems a bit tone-deaf:

    Finally, unlike legal liberalism, common-good constitutionalism does not suffer from a horror of political domination and hierarchy, because it sees that law is parental, a wise teacher and an inculcator of good habits. Just authority in rulers can be exercised for the good of subjects, if necessary even against the subjects’ own perceptions of what is best for them—perceptions that may change over time anyway, as the law teaches, habituates, and re-forms them. Subjects will come to thank the ruler whose legal strictures, possibly experienced at first as coercive, encourage subjects to form more authentic desires for the individual and common goods, better habits, and beliefs that better track and promote communal well-being.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/common-good-constitutionalism/609037/

    —–

    I am not unsympathetic to their perspective, in a general sense. Although American history as praxis has plenty of sources one can draw from as inspiration, in theory the American philosophical canon doesn’t really have any deep conservative sources in a continental European sense. So seeing classical liberals and libertarians constantly making ‘The Conservative Case for X’ while being unable to have a theoretical language for one’s frustrations and objections, especially after the failures of the last decades, can’t be very helpful.

    But to durably hold power (and not merely capture it) they need some sort of engagement with the concerns of non-Catholic and secular Americans.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.
     
    These people are demented Larpers. Outside maybe of the papal state, such a thing never existed anywhere even in medieval Europe. They should remember what happened to popes like Gregory VII and Boniface VIII, when they overreached in their dealings with secular powers and tried subordinating the temporal power to the spiritual power.
    I read the excerpts in Dreher's article and I'm completely unsympathetic to the Integralist programme as outlined there. These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran's system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant "anything goes" liberalism.

    Replies: @A123, @Hyperborean, @Coconuts, @silviosilver

  19. German_reader says:
    @Hyperborean
    @German_reader


    I’m not sure if Vermeule isn’t trolling with his comments about his preferred immigration system. But if he’s serious, he’s obviously demented. Not just from a nationalist or racialist perspective, but more generally the idea that you could create a kind of Catholic theocracy in the US, that’s just delusional.
     
    Granted, regarding immigration this is the only direct statement from Vermeule that I can find from skimming the internet, so it is hard to know how much he really means it - but as to his general legal philosophy he seems genuine.

    Vermeule calls papal teaching on integralism “irreformable.” Whether it is or isn’t is not a question for me to take up, but it does indicate how seriously he takes this. At that same conference, Gladden Pappin, an integralist academic and close collaborator of Vermeule’s praised the Chinese Communist regime for having a ministry that clearly lays out what the spiritual goals of a society should be — this, by contrast to the US, which has no such office:

    He thinks the US should have such an office, and that it should be the Catholic Church. How do we get to that place in a minority-Catholic country, in which the Catholic Church is hemorrhaging members? They don’t tell us.

    Well, actually, Vermeule does tell us. Until such time as they can take over, he told the Notre Dame audience, integralist Catholics ought to march through the governing institutions, with the long-term goal of overturning liberalism
     

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/what-do-integralists-want-reactionary-catholicism/

    Dreher includes some telling extracts from a book called Integralism: A Manual of Political Philosophy, by Thomas Crean and Alan Fimister. While I don't know the authors and therefore how prominent they are, they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.

    ---

    Vermeule personally seems a bit tone-deaf:


    Finally, unlike legal liberalism, common-good constitutionalism does not suffer from a horror of political domination and hierarchy, because it sees that law is parental, a wise teacher and an inculcator of good habits. Just authority in rulers can be exercised for the good of subjects, if necessary even against the subjects’ own perceptions of what is best for them—perceptions that may change over time anyway, as the law teaches, habituates, and re-forms them. Subjects will come to thank the ruler whose legal strictures, possibly experienced at first as coercive, encourage subjects to form more authentic desires for the individual and common goods, better habits, and beliefs that better track and promote communal well-being.
     
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/common-good-constitutionalism/609037/

    -----

    I am not unsympathetic to their perspective, in a general sense. Although American history as praxis has plenty of sources one can draw from as inspiration, in theory the American philosophical canon doesn't really have any deep conservative sources in a continental European sense. So seeing classical liberals and libertarians constantly making 'The Conservative Case for X' while being unable to have a theoretical language for one's frustrations and objections, especially after the failures of the last decades, can't be very helpful.

    But to durably hold power (and not merely capture it) they need some sort of engagement with the concerns of non-Catholic and secular Americans.

    Replies: @German_reader

    they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.

    These people are demented Larpers. Outside maybe of the papal state, such a thing never existed anywhere even in medieval Europe. They should remember what happened to popes like Gregory VII and Boniface VIII, when they overreached in their dealings with secular powers and tried subordinating the temporal power to the spiritual power.
    I read the excerpts in Dreher’s article and I’m completely unsympathetic to the Integralist programme as outlined there. These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran’s system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant “anything goes” liberalism.

    • Replies: @A123
    @German_reader


    I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing,
     
    You are confusing Left and Right (again).

    Leftoids want liberal Catholic masters like Pope Francis. Or, possibly lesser forms of evil like the Church of England.

    The idea of a "State Church" is anathema to Christian Populists. No one on the GOP MAGA side is demented enough to embrace a government controlled church.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Hyperborean
    @German_reader

    The de Maistre quote is particularly amusing given that the 'Enrichissez-vous' July Monarchy and the populist Napoleon III both lasted longer than the Bourbon Legitimists.


    By contrast, the radicals, the extremists, the idealists, the critics, the dissenters, the activists of social change, have in my lifetime been far more realistic, and simultaneously more imaginative, about the capacious and flexible limits of political and legal change. The activists who pushed for same-sex marriage, even when Congress and dozens of states had passed statutes barring it - and who, after the Obergefell decision, turned on a dime to promoting transgenderism; the Trump voters who ignored the ironclad predictions of their betters; Chris Rufo, who has achieved the nearly unimaginable in the wars over critical race theory and public education — all these have had a sense of the possible, a breadth of vision, that the myopic realist can only imagine possessing.

    In many of these cases, furthermore, the activists — while of course claiming to represent the real will of the people, or the best of our national ideals, or what have you — formed a tiny minority of the population, even a tiny minority of the intellectual class. One of the standard mistakes underpinning the futility trope is to imagine that the political views and preferences of national majorities set the terms of political action. In fact, on most (many? all?) issues national majorities may well have no real views or preferences. At a minimum, as our political history since 1989 testifies over and over, some unpredictable number of the public’s seemingly fixed views are weakly held and malleable from above, susceptible to elite influence, and quick to acquiesce to changes in law or political practice put into place by tiny minorities with access to the crucial levers of power. De Maistre once said that despite the events of 1789 and after, “four or five men can give France a king.” The mechanisms underpinning this observation have been worked out as a major theme of political science and public-choice economics since Mancur Olson’s work on the logic of collective action. Committed minorities have often been able to set the terms of political life for large, relatively apathetic majorities, especially in a system like our own that offers many points of access for minority influence, such as the courts.
     

    https://postliberalorder.substack.com/p/it-cant-happen-or-the-poverty-of

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Coconuts
    @German_reader

    I remember reading Dreher's article, it is a bit weasly, given that Britain until the Catholic emancipation in the 1830s would probably count as a Protestant Integralist regime and in certain ways still is (the unwritten constitution is supposed to be the Protestant version of 'Natural Law' and the queen still reigns based on it), Franco's Spain was an Integralist regime, there was one in the Dominican Republic IIRC and so on.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran’s system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant “anything goes” liberalism.
     
    I think they're coming at it from Belloc's "Europe is the faith, the faith is Europe" angle. They're looking to their own traditions - even if they were raised Protestant or atheist or whatever - for some way out of the madness they witness in their world. Trad Cath types often market their cultural offerings attractively, so it's not that surprising that some people will investigate it on the off chance that it does indeed contain some magic ingredient that we have tragically overlooked in our haste to embrace every shiny new thing thrust our way.

    Personally, whenever I've examined it, I've come away very disappointed. It's not having to fake belief in things like "the real presence" in the eucharist that bothers me, it's that the people in Trad Cath talk about religious issues like this all the time - about this and about virtually nothing else. My hopes that the people may have retained some religious faith but were "really" in it for the identity politics have been quickly dashed every time. Well, that shouldn't be surprising - it's a religion, not a cultural or political movement, and I'm the fool for thinking it could possibly have been otherwise. My excuse is desperate people do desperate things. These people occasionally make their way over to blogs like this one, so my advice to any identitarian who encounters one of them is: do not get your hopes up!

    If Trad Cath is a waste of time, the idea of an ethno-religion remains very attractive. The problem is there is so little on offer. Paganism is an even worse option than Christianity. If you don't believe in Christianity but you want to embrace it as your ancestral faith, you don't have to really do anything. No one's going to seriously demand you prove your faith - or if they do, it's somewhat acceptable to just tell them to fuck off. But going into paganism would be a bit like converting to Islam - I think you really would face some pressure to prove your conversion is sincere. Who the hell is seriously going to pretend to believe in Zeus or Jupiter? And I don't know how anyone can attend those pagan revival ceremonies without feeling daffy.
  20. I’m sad I missed this debate with AP.

    outlier among Catholic

    The most politically “woke” country of Western Europe, is surely Republic of Ireland, which has been one of the most traditionally Catholic.

    That’s not to say, Catholicism causes “wokeness” – there is obviously no correlation in Europe, as Italy is more “anti-Woke” politically.

    That’s a guideline which any historian should say. That important information is in the small details and particular circumstances of how the religious sect matches other factors, in these countries.

    accepting refugees (i.e, population

    This is one of few topics of modern politics, where Jesus says clear and unambiguous things, almost written like an instruction guide – that you should help strangers, and that your neighbor is the person who is good to you, not the person who is related to you or part of your tribe.

    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor – this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them – this is difficult to re-interpret.

    for trans rights:

    Regardless that most people who are interested in this topic are secular.

    New Testament has perhaps some quite “woke” concordance views in this areas, implies that gender is not important. On the other hand, Origen, who has castrated himself, not exactly a church father.

    the pattern (among Europeans) has been Evangelical Protestants most right wing, then Catholics, and then mainline Protestants

    Because America is a different country, some of the social markers will be different.

    For example, in Northern Ireland, religious sects also partly indicate ethnic differences, as in Israel/Palestine, Lebanon, or Balkans. In Germany, the Catholic/Protestant might not indicate any ethnic differences. In USA, it might correlate to income levels. In e.g. Scotland, these correlation might be the opposite, than in USA, Brazil, etc.

    This is all local detail. And of course, the interesting things in this topic, are in the small local details.

    least woke countries remain Catholic and Orthodox ones. And not just backward ones in the Balkans, also Poland and Italy, even Czechia

    Compared to Western Europe, Poland is recently communist, poor, low income, country with a low standard of living. You would expect their politics to be different, regardless of a religion.

    Fact that Poland shares religion with many countries in Western Europe like Belgium or France, is probably the least relevant indicator for understanding their politics.

    In terms of Catholicism in Poland, the interesting thing is that Poland is still quite a religious country, while slavic nationalities in Russia are the most secular or non-religious population in Europe, and central Europe countries like Czech Republic are also quite non-religious.

    It’s something Polish historians would probably be able to answer only. But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker in Poland, and Poland is country often under partial or total occupation.

    This is, Catholicism is perhaps felt like a national characteristic in Poland, and Poles are often being threatened by occupation of the neighbours. In Germany, for comparison, you can see Catholicism/Protestantism doesn’t have any national connotation. Whereas in Ireland, Catholicism has a national connotation.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker
     
    That's the case for all of Eastern Europe, no? It's similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats. Religion becomes an identity marker and on some level tied to ethnicity. This is ironic given the low levels of genuine religiosity in these countries.

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I've seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church. Putin's public displays of Orthodox piety is not matched by the church-avoiding youth. Yet public declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin - without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.

    This pattern repeats itself in country after country in Eastern Europe. A naïve analysis would conclude that Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn't the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by 'disapora nationalists', projecting their fantasies onto societies that do not conform to their cherished ideals.

    Replies: @German_reader, @AP, @Dmitry

    , @LatW
    @Dmitry


    The most politically "woke" country in Western Europe is the Republic of Ireland
     
    Yes, but, Dim, have you been around the Irish? This is because they are so innocent and sweet. They are like children who want to be everybody's friend and be kind and gracious to everybody. They don't know how to say No. That's because they are completely unprotected and they don't have those hard*ss Germanic instincts. And because their tradition is one of the oldest in Northern Europe that stems from the likes of Pelagius.

    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I'm not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @silviosilver
    @Dmitry


    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor – this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them – this is difficult to re-interpret.
     
    I don't see how you draw this conclusion at all.

    If my neighbor is defined as "whoever does me a kindness," then why would that require me to accept a refugee (especially one of another race), whose presence in my country, far from doing me any sort of kindness, only burdens me?

    If a "refugee" (99% bogus) tries to break into my country and I catch him, I should have a right to kill him; by not killing him, I am doing him the kindness. And the best way he can "love me as his neighbor" in return for that kindness is to promise to stay out of my country (and to keep his promise).

    Also, just because Jesus said to love your neighbor (as he defined it) as yourself, it doesn't mean we can't also love our "normal" neighbors (as we define them) as well. That should be obvious. In the passage about "what is the law" that you are referring to, Jesus doesn't explicitly provide the instruction to love our parents or our children, but we can hardly infer from that omission that he doesn't want us to love our parents or children, so neither should we infer that we shouldn't love our own ethnic neighbors (if we want to).

    See, Dmitry, what was so hard about that?

    Replies: @Dmitry

  21. Germans self-shot with the Baerbock words and gas prices are skyrocketing thank to her dumb words about Nord-Stream 2.
    This green bimbo seems to make error and error and errors again. She should learn to stay silent.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/European-Natural-Gas-Prices-Soar-On-Supply-Shortage-Fears.html

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Aedib


    Germans self-shot with the Baerbock words and gas prices are skyrocketing thank to her dumb words about Nord-Stream 2.
     
    I've been calling her the NATO Chatbot for this very reason. Just go to any NATO think-tank like the RAND corporation on virtually any topic and you will find zero daylight between her and what they say.

    That said, I don't think she's stupid. She's a US puppet, and knowingly one, for careerist reasons. That may be spineless, but it isn't stupid per se. She knows what she is doing, and is very cynical about it.

    Sholz is also not blameless here. He knows perfectly well what she represents. As I noted in the previous OT, selecting her is basically his way to try to reassure the Western establishment that his govt is going to play ball. Merkel was seen as too independent in her last years, and I was surprised how far she was willing to push the NS2 issue despite massive US pressure.

    I don't think Germany will cave now, but given its long track record of craven behaviour to America, nothing can sadly be off the table.

    Replies: @Aedib

  22. @German_reader
    Spain’s left-wing government has called for toys to go on strike against sexism:
    https://spainsnews.com/toys-go-on-strike-to-end-sexism/

    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense. This is a country where the last “heretic” was executed in the 1820s and which had a regime heavily favouring Catholicism a mere 50 years ago, and yet its left-wingers are among the craziest in Europe (and long have been).

    And many thanks again to Ron Unz for having created a new Open thread, it's very generous, and I think I can say for all regular commenters that we appreciate it very much!

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Thulean Friend

    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense.

    Iberia as a whole is exceptionally progressive for reasons that are not entirely clear to me. If you look at polling data for Greece or Italy on questions like immigration or similar hotbutton issues you will find a much greater right-wing bloc. The Iberian peninsula is basically the sunnier, browner and slightly more corrupt version of Sweden.

    I do not think this has much to do with Catholicism. It seems to be an outlier for domestic cultural reasons – certainly when compared to other Med countries. Sadly, I am not aware of a single person of Iberian origin on this blog, so we can’t get much insight into why this the case.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Thulean Friend


    Sadly, I am not aware of a single person of Iberian origin on this blog
     
    I am aware of one who was born on the Iberian side of the Basque Country. And he actually tried to provide some insights on that issue for the Basque case in the previous OT but I doubt he will be willing to repeat himself here for your honor's convenience. Not all of them extrapolated to the rest of Iberia anyway.
  23. @Aedib
    Germans self-shot with the Baerbock words and gas prices are skyrocketing thank to her dumb words about Nord-Stream 2.
    This green bimbo seems to make error and error and errors again. She should learn to stay silent.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/European-Natural-Gas-Prices-Soar-On-Supply-Shortage-Fears.html

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Germans self-shot with the Baerbock words and gas prices are skyrocketing thank to her dumb words about Nord-Stream 2.

    I’ve been calling her the NATO Chatbot for this very reason. Just go to any NATO think-tank like the RAND corporation on virtually any topic and you will find zero daylight between her and what they say.

    That said, I don’t think she’s stupid. She’s a US puppet, and knowingly one, for careerist reasons. That may be spineless, but it isn’t stupid per se. She knows what she is doing, and is very cynical about it.

    Sholz is also not blameless here. He knows perfectly well what she represents. As I noted in the previous OT, selecting her is basically his way to try to reassure the Western establishment that his govt is going to play ball. Merkel was seen as too independent in her last years, and I was surprised how far she was willing to push the NS2 issue despite massive US pressure.

    I don’t think Germany will cave now, but given its long track record of craven behaviour to America, nothing can sadly be off the table.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Thulean Friend

    I'm astonished. German Atlanticists seems so subservient that they are even prone to sacrifice the German world-class industry in the altar of the Atlanticist ideology. They are mongrelizing and destroying the foundation of their formerly marvelous country.
    The most bizarre thing is that Russians are profiting by "not opening" NS2.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @sudden death

  24. AaronB says:

    Marx and to some extent Hegel, far from manifesting the genuine Christian principle, actually reverted to the exact principle of politics uber alles that Jesus

    If you read a lot of New Testament, it’s clear that “World to Come” is not only an immaterial world, but the speakers are sometimes speaking like they expect it will soon include the material world, just as in Marx the revolution will re-orient both the material world, as well as spiritual world (although only indexed for man).

    In the historical context of New Testament, Jews are in ambiguous waiting for the arrival of a Messianic age (in which there will be Justice and Peace), which can be very near.

    Among the Jews of this time, the materiality of the world to come, is ambiguous, or there was not the extent of our (modern peoples’) separation between the spiritual and material worlds.

    You can see this many times where the implication is not completely clear, if there will be material or immaterial rewards. For example, in Mark 10
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+10&version=NIV

    Jesus is clearly saying that you should sell your material things and give to the poor. So this is a material claim, not less than in Marxism.

    But in the end of his answer to Peter, he implies that material things, will be compensated with eternal life in the Messianic Age.

    There is with Marx, a modern lowering of expectations, where the after the end of history, there will not be “eternal life”, but at best justice, equality, and a spiritual return of a non-alienated relation to society.

    However, as in Hegel, Marxism returns some of the ambiguity in the distinction between the material and spiritual life. This is where the material and spiritual are believed to be intermixed. In Marx, you labor activity and spiritual activity become the same. In Hegel , Napoleon is not just an ordinary political leader, but also representative of the world spirit, etc.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Dmitry

    All Bibles are the works of fallible mankind. Translations of Edits of Translations.

    -A- At best, they are genuine attempts to grasp the glory of The Father & The Son.
    -B- At worst, they can be outright manipulation.
    -C- Most often, they are between these two extremes.

    The King James Bible is an example of Case C. Part of the edit was an intentional tilt to make the work more friendly to the monarchy.

    Part of serious Protestant belief is that all parts of the various Bibles are not created equal. How to weight portions of texts from different sources is difficult. Blindly accepting a single version as perfect? That is the first step towards recreating the "Paid Indulgences" of the failed Catholic Church from ~500 AD.
    ___

    Also, consider KJV 1 is circa 1611, KJV 2 from 1769. Over reading a document that is 200-400 years old is perilous.

    Modern migration involving powered ships and even faster airplanes undercuts the assumptions of the ancient text. KJV verse applies to a basically similar "stranger" from the next town. There is no reason to believe it applies to unassimilable, violent Jihadists from another continent.

    A KJV 3 is badly over due. However, there is not enough cohesion at this point to update the document to exclude things that made sense in historical context but are crazy now. To paraphrase, "The Bible is Not a Suicide Pact for Christianity"

    PEACE 😇

    , @iffen
    @Dmitry

    This is where the material and spiritual are believed to be intermixed.

    Yeah, AaronB, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

  25. @songbird
    @A123


    Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.
     
    Probably takes less than two minutes to flash the rom of a good surgical robot, albeit longer to build on the assembly line. A lot of diagnosis could be done with the aid of computer automation, better testing, and more listening to the patient.

    I'd much rather have such a system, where I was interacting with highly intelligent two year specialists, who might spend 20 minutes on a problem, rather than middling 8 year plus doctors, who I have to see, just to get to a middling 10 year plus specialist, who wants to spend 5 minutes on a problem and will break out the google in front of me.

    And as a fringe benefit, the two year specialists, would have more nimble minds, due to being younger, and would also have higher fertility, so that future generations would probably have more, rather than run out of them.

    Surveys have consistently found that people remember little of anything from education. Its most important function is to be a sorting mechanism, but this could be handled much more efficiently, in a shorter time frame.

    Some of the difference could be made up by track education in high school. The rest by apprenticeship and testing.

    BTW, James Watt never got a college education.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    to get to a middling 10 year plus specialist, who wants to spend 5 minutes on a problem and will break out the google in front of me.

    My own experience with doctors is 50-50. The last time I went to a physician (~10 years ago) he asked me questions and typed into his laptop and it was obvious he was operating a diagnosis tree program. He touched my chest with a stethoscope for less than a minute and the only other person who made any actual contact with me was the nurse who attached a blood pressure sleeve to my arm and an oxygen meter to my finger.

    If your problem isn’t on a main branch of that diagnosis tree I guess I don’t want to know what happens.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    My own experience with doctors is 50-50. The last time I went to a physician (~10 years ago) he asked me questions and typed into his laptop and it was obvious he was operating a diagnosis tree program
     
    I have a very good relationship with my long term GP doctor. We have headed off a significant amount of unnecessary work by documenting some personal body chemistry that is well away from standard.

    A 2-year tech and BigPharma computer program would have called for pharmaceutical intervention that would have made things worse. Odds are that error would have been so damaging I would have needed liver transplant surgery.

    How to protect the medical profession from BigPharma is not a straight line connection to years of education. However, actual understanding is the best counter to computer error.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  26. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.
     
    These people are demented Larpers. Outside maybe of the papal state, such a thing never existed anywhere even in medieval Europe. They should remember what happened to popes like Gregory VII and Boniface VIII, when they overreached in their dealings with secular powers and tried subordinating the temporal power to the spiritual power.
    I read the excerpts in Dreher's article and I'm completely unsympathetic to the Integralist programme as outlined there. These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran's system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant "anything goes" liberalism.

    Replies: @A123, @Hyperborean, @Coconuts, @silviosilver

    I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing,

    You are confusing Left and Right (again).

    Leftoids want liberal Catholic masters like Pope Francis. Or, possibly lesser forms of evil like the Church of England.

    The idea of a “State Church” is anathema to Christian Populists. No one on the GOP MAGA side is demented enough to embrace a government controlled church.

    PEACE 😇

  27. @Dmitry
    I'm sad I missed this debate with AP.

    outlier among Catholic
     
    The most politically "woke" country of Western Europe, is surely Republic of Ireland, which has been one of the most traditionally Catholic.

    That's not to say, Catholicism causes "wokeness" - there is obviously no correlation in Europe, as Italy is more "anti-Woke" politically.

    That's a guideline which any historian should say. That important information is in the small details and particular circumstances of how the religious sect matches other factors, in these countries.


    accepting refugees (i.e, population
     
    This is one of few topics of modern politics, where Jesus says clear and unambiguous things, almost written like an instruction guide - that you should help strangers, and that your neighbor is the person who is good to you, not the person who is related to you or part of your tribe.

    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor - this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them - this is difficult to re-interpret.


    for trans rights:
     
    Regardless that most people who are interested in this topic are secular.

    New Testament has perhaps some quite "woke" concordance views in this areas, implies that gender is not important. On the other hand, Origen, who has castrated himself, not exactly a church father.


    the pattern (among Europeans) has been Evangelical Protestants most right wing, then Catholics, and then mainline Protestants
     
    Because America is a different country, some of the social markers will be different.

    For example, in Northern Ireland, religious sects also partly indicate ethnic differences, as in Israel/Palestine, Lebanon, or Balkans. In Germany, the Catholic/Protestant might not indicate any ethnic differences. In USA, it might correlate to income levels. In e.g. Scotland, these correlation might be the opposite, than in USA, Brazil, etc.

    This is all local detail. And of course, the interesting things in this topic, are in the small local details.


    least woke countries remain Catholic and Orthodox ones. And not just backward ones in the Balkans, also Poland and Italy, even Czechia
     
    Compared to Western Europe, Poland is recently communist, poor, low income, country with a low standard of living. You would expect their politics to be different, regardless of a religion.

    Fact that Poland shares religion with many countries in Western Europe like Belgium or France, is probably the least relevant indicator for understanding their politics.

    In terms of Catholicism in Poland, the interesting thing is that Poland is still quite a religious country, while slavic nationalities in Russia are the most secular or non-religious population in Europe, and central Europe countries like Czech Republic are also quite non-religious.

    It's something Polish historians would probably be able to answer only. But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker in Poland, and Poland is country often under partial or total occupation.

    This is, Catholicism is perhaps felt like a national characteristic in Poland, and Poles are often being threatened by occupation of the neighbours. In Germany, for comparison, you can see Catholicism/Protestantism doesn't have any national connotation. Whereas in Ireland, Catholicism has a national connotation.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @silviosilver

    But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker

    That’s the case for all of Eastern Europe, no? It’s similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats. Religion becomes an identity marker and on some level tied to ethnicity. This is ironic given the low levels of genuine religiosity in these countries.

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I’ve seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church. Putin’s public displays of Orthodox piety is not matched by the church-avoiding youth. Yet public declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin – without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.

    This pattern repeats itself in country after country in Eastern Europe. A naïve analysis would conclude that Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’, projecting their fantasies onto societies that do not conform to their cherished ideals.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    It’s similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats.
     
    I get your point about Serbs and Croats, but do Albanians really pretend to be that religious? They're not all even nominally Muslim, there's a non-trivial Christian minority, and many godless. Also you've got things like national hero Skanderbeg (after whom the Waffen-SS division was named) who fought the Ottomans, which to me would at least indicate a not entirely uncomplicated attitude towards the Ottoman era and its religious imprint.
    I've got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it's always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don't even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn't accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Yevardian

    , @AP
    @Thulean Friend


    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I’ve seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church.
     
    It is rapidly secularizing from a very high base. There is much room to secularize. A country that is already completely secular can't secularize much.

    https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/

    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.

    https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2018/06/PF.06.13.18_religiouscommitment-03-08-.png

    Overall Polish rate is higher than any Western nation. Even the Polish under 40 rate (26%) is higher than the overall rate anywhere in Europe.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles - 6% lower than among older Poles.

    Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case.
     
    Weekly Church attendance is much higher among Poles than among Western Europeans (see above).

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.

    Poland has low rates of divorce and children being born out of wedlock:

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321608/births+outside+marriage.png

    I posted this map before on the massive open thread with about 1000 posts, so you may have missed it:

    https://miro.medium.com/max/494/1*wYrJCH4UWW-yK6US3tJNbA.png

    The old territory of the Second Polish Republic, encompassing most of Poland plus western Ukraine and western Belarus, is a sort of island of low out-of-wedlock births.

    a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’
     
    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Poland is the most rapidly secularising
     
    At least in comparison to other slavic nationalities (which includes the most secular in Europe), Poles are very religious though. You can see this if you visit a church in Western Europe - depending on area, it can be mostly Africans, Poles, Filipinos, Latins, etc.

    Catholicism is part of the mainstream culture in Poland.

    It's completely not-comparable to Russia, where religion (even Hare Krishna) is really a very minority sect, obscure to most of the country, and to extent had never extended to the mainstream population (as late as in the 19th century, the clergy complains about the extreme difficulty of imposing norms on the peasants).

    So the average person doesn't know what religion is teaching or the most basic things about it. The clergymen are writing on Facebook about how the visitors to their services don't know the most simple customs. (Whereas in Poland, you can be sure average people know how the services go).


    Putin’s public displays of Orthodox
     
    Putin is a KGB officer, and a lot of the ruling class are from the intelligence serves of the USSR, so this is a different kind of politics. In countries like Poland, although their government is apparently considered "embarrassing" by educated Poles; they have seemed to be able to create a relatively more "normal" (or European, democratic) political reality nowadays. So I don't think the Polish politicians are doing this kind of cynical appearing state-building attemptings.

    Since the end of communism, Poland has managed to create a kind of European, modern, democratic political system.


    declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin – without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.
     
    There is also the type of religion or spirituality that is more discovered in Russia - it's something that becomes attractive for older people. That is, people who were secular for most of their life, might become religious as they become old. They "discover religion" as they age, as you can say.

    Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’,

     

    I think it varies from which country we are discussing, and what you mean by traditional (which historical time it refers to).

    The more advanced countries of the USSR, like in Russia have maintained less traditions from the 19th century and earlier, than Western European countries.

    Western European countries like UK have far traditions of the 19th century and earlier, in comparison.

    But because of a slow of development in most of the country of the last 30 years, there is still more maintained a lot of the traditions of the 20th century in Russia (although the rapid computerization of the population in the last 10 years is scary, as the dying of the villages).

    Poland's history is different as they have nationalism (unlike in Russia, where the history is imperialism). In Poland, self-consciously tried to maintain their folkloric culture as part of the nationalism project since various partitions.

    And what about those Southern countries like Romania, Bulgaria? These can seem incredibly traditional in some ways.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  28. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.
     
    These people are demented Larpers. Outside maybe of the papal state, such a thing never existed anywhere even in medieval Europe. They should remember what happened to popes like Gregory VII and Boniface VIII, when they overreached in their dealings with secular powers and tried subordinating the temporal power to the spiritual power.
    I read the excerpts in Dreher's article and I'm completely unsympathetic to the Integralist programme as outlined there. These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran's system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant "anything goes" liberalism.

    Replies: @A123, @Hyperborean, @Coconuts, @silviosilver

    The de Maistre quote is particularly amusing given that the ‘Enrichissez-vous’ July Monarchy and the populist Napoleon III both lasted longer than the Bourbon Legitimists.

    By contrast, the radicals, the extremists, the idealists, the critics, the dissenters, the activists of social change, have in my lifetime been far more realistic, and simultaneously more imaginative, about the capacious and flexible limits of political and legal change. The activists who pushed for same-sex marriage, even when Congress and dozens of states had passed statutes barring it – and who, after the Obergefell decision, turned on a dime to promoting transgenderism; the Trump voters who ignored the ironclad predictions of their betters; Chris Rufo, who has achieved the nearly unimaginable in the wars over critical race theory and public education — all these have had a sense of the possible, a breadth of vision, that the myopic realist can only imagine possessing.

    In many of these cases, furthermore, the activists — while of course claiming to represent the real will of the people, or the best of our national ideals, or what have you — formed a tiny minority of the population, even a tiny minority of the intellectual class. One of the standard mistakes underpinning the futility trope is to imagine that the political views and preferences of national majorities set the terms of political action. In fact, on most (many? all?) issues national majorities may well have no real views or preferences. At a minimum, as our political history since 1989 testifies over and over, some unpredictable number of the public’s seemingly fixed views are weakly held and malleable from above, susceptible to elite influence, and quick to acquiesce to changes in law or political practice put into place by tiny minorities with access to the crucial levers of power. De Maistre once said that despite the events of 1789 and after, “four or five men can give France a king.” The mechanisms underpinning this observation have been worked out as a major theme of political science and public-choice economics since Mancur Olson’s work on the logic of collective action. Committed minorities have often been able to set the terms of political life for large, relatively apathetic majorities, especially in a system like our own that offers many points of access for minority influence, such as the courts.

    https://postliberalorder.substack.com/p/it-cant-happen-or-the-poverty-of

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Hyperborean

    I actually tend to agree that committed minorities often have an outsized influence. Still, it's quite the reach to get from that to the idea that integralists could remould the US according to their preferences, when their project has no roots at all in US history (much less than wokeness imo) and runs totally counter to the hegemonic culture.
    And I have to say on a personal level I just find Vermeule repellent from the little I've read. Typical lawyer scum, with his idea that his vision could be implemented by taking over the judicial system, like gay marriage advocates did. Not even a hint of heroic sentiment.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  29. German_reader says:
    @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker
     
    That's the case for all of Eastern Europe, no? It's similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats. Religion becomes an identity marker and on some level tied to ethnicity. This is ironic given the low levels of genuine religiosity in these countries.

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I've seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church. Putin's public displays of Orthodox piety is not matched by the church-avoiding youth. Yet public declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin - without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.

    This pattern repeats itself in country after country in Eastern Europe. A naïve analysis would conclude that Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn't the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by 'disapora nationalists', projecting their fantasies onto societies that do not conform to their cherished ideals.

    Replies: @German_reader, @AP, @Dmitry

    It’s similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats.

    I get your point about Serbs and Croats, but do Albanians really pretend to be that religious? They’re not all even nominally Muslim, there’s a non-trivial Christian minority, and many godless. Also you’ve got things like national hero Skanderbeg (after whom the Waffen-SS division was named) who fought the Ottomans, which to me would at least indicate a not entirely uncomplicated attitude towards the Ottoman era and its religious imprint.
    I’ve got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it’s always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don’t even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn’t accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @German_reader


    do Albanians really pretend to be that religious?
     
    Sample of one, but the only self-professed muslim I have known who insisted that there was nothing wrong with eating pork was an Albanian gypsy classmate of mine. Though if I remember correctly he was circumcised and held to ramadan.
    , @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    I’ve got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it’s always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don’t even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn’t accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.
     
    You probably know already, but yes, religion has never really formed a key part of Albanian identity. The most revered aspect in all traditional Albanian society is the Kanun, a compendium of oral law governing blood feuds/pacts, marriage customs, inheritance, land rights, practically every aspect of pre-modern life. The Kanun equally governs behaviour for Muslims, Orthodox and Catholics, it makes no distinction for religion.

    I used to think it had gone defunct after the long Hoxha years, but I can tell you from personal acquaitances, that even amongst urban and educated people it's very much alive. Well, perhaps not so surprising considering the degree of total anarchy Albania fell into until the late 90s, even worse than Armenia. Albania's entire electricity grid was actually breaking down, with consequences that can be imagined after daylight. Whole families simply fled Tirana to their ancestral villages during this period, it's actually universally remembered (I don't remember the phrase in Albanian [incidentally, it sounds very different to Slavic languages of the area, with lots of 'th' and 'the' sounds, also distinguishing the 'English r', a tap, and a trilled r, I think only Armenian also has this], unfortunately) as 'The Night of Dark Forces' in Albania, or something along those lines.
    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they're not the biggest niggers of Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

  30. @Thulean Friend
    @Aedib


    Germans self-shot with the Baerbock words and gas prices are skyrocketing thank to her dumb words about Nord-Stream 2.
     
    I've been calling her the NATO Chatbot for this very reason. Just go to any NATO think-tank like the RAND corporation on virtually any topic and you will find zero daylight between her and what they say.

    That said, I don't think she's stupid. She's a US puppet, and knowingly one, for careerist reasons. That may be spineless, but it isn't stupid per se. She knows what she is doing, and is very cynical about it.

    Sholz is also not blameless here. He knows perfectly well what she represents. As I noted in the previous OT, selecting her is basically his way to try to reassure the Western establishment that his govt is going to play ball. Merkel was seen as too independent in her last years, and I was surprised how far she was willing to push the NS2 issue despite massive US pressure.

    I don't think Germany will cave now, but given its long track record of craven behaviour to America, nothing can sadly be off the table.

    Replies: @Aedib

    I’m astonished. German Atlanticists seems so subservient that they are even prone to sacrifice the German world-class industry in the altar of the Atlanticist ideology. They are mongrelizing and destroying the foundation of their formerly marvelous country.
    The most bizarre thing is that Russians are profiting by “not opening” NS2.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Aedib

    It's not ideology. It is subservience to the real ruler of Europe: The United States of America.

    I am not exaggerating when I call Europe nothing but a mere collection of puppet states of the US. Germany is by far the most powerful country in the EU and even they have been struggling enormously to get through a common-sense policy like the NS2. What hope is there for less powerful countries? I think Germans will ultimately get it through but this kind of brutal uphill battle for a core national strategic interest is insane.

    This also has implications in the China vs America debates. Most non-Europeans underestimate just to what extent Europe is craven to US diktat. It goes beyond alliances and into the realm of colonialism. China has nothing comparable in size or nature - and never will.

    , @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Those poor German industrialists have been forewarned or straightout colluded and bought needed quantities of gas in advance at low prices in the summer and pumped it to their own storages, so it's nothing but crocodile tears regarding their cruel fate. Also there is no better cure from excess gazpromophilia than absurd gas prices as it makes instalation of all other power sources way more profitable too, e.g. Finland new nuclear station will be profitable despite neverending delays ;)

    Replies: @Aedib

  31. German_reader says:
    @Hyperborean
    @German_reader

    The de Maistre quote is particularly amusing given that the 'Enrichissez-vous' July Monarchy and the populist Napoleon III both lasted longer than the Bourbon Legitimists.


    By contrast, the radicals, the extremists, the idealists, the critics, the dissenters, the activists of social change, have in my lifetime been far more realistic, and simultaneously more imaginative, about the capacious and flexible limits of political and legal change. The activists who pushed for same-sex marriage, even when Congress and dozens of states had passed statutes barring it - and who, after the Obergefell decision, turned on a dime to promoting transgenderism; the Trump voters who ignored the ironclad predictions of their betters; Chris Rufo, who has achieved the nearly unimaginable in the wars over critical race theory and public education — all these have had a sense of the possible, a breadth of vision, that the myopic realist can only imagine possessing.

    In many of these cases, furthermore, the activists — while of course claiming to represent the real will of the people, or the best of our national ideals, or what have you — formed a tiny minority of the population, even a tiny minority of the intellectual class. One of the standard mistakes underpinning the futility trope is to imagine that the political views and preferences of national majorities set the terms of political action. In fact, on most (many? all?) issues national majorities may well have no real views or preferences. At a minimum, as our political history since 1989 testifies over and over, some unpredictable number of the public’s seemingly fixed views are weakly held and malleable from above, susceptible to elite influence, and quick to acquiesce to changes in law or political practice put into place by tiny minorities with access to the crucial levers of power. De Maistre once said that despite the events of 1789 and after, “four or five men can give France a king.” The mechanisms underpinning this observation have been worked out as a major theme of political science and public-choice economics since Mancur Olson’s work on the logic of collective action. Committed minorities have often been able to set the terms of political life for large, relatively apathetic majorities, especially in a system like our own that offers many points of access for minority influence, such as the courts.
     

    https://postliberalorder.substack.com/p/it-cant-happen-or-the-poverty-of

    Replies: @German_reader

    I actually tend to agree that committed minorities often have an outsized influence. Still, it’s quite the reach to get from that to the idea that integralists could remould the US according to their preferences, when their project has no roots at all in US history (much less than wokeness imo) and runs totally counter to the hegemonic culture.
    And I have to say on a personal level I just find Vermeule repellent from the little I’ve read. Typical lawyer scum, with his idea that his vision could be implemented by taking over the judicial system, like gay marriage advocates did. Not even a hint of heroic sentiment.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    Typical lawyer scum, with his idea that his vision could be implemented by taking over the judicial system, like gay marriage advocates did. Not even a hint of heroic sentiment.
     
    You really surprise me here. Say that, by some miracle, German nats are poised to take over in 2022, with the promise that all racial non-Germans will be removed from German territory, but they only achieved that position through slimy lawyermerchantjew means rather than heroic Germanic means, you would seriously, even now, at this late date, make that a criterion for acceptability?
  32. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    It’s similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats.
     
    I get your point about Serbs and Croats, but do Albanians really pretend to be that religious? They're not all even nominally Muslim, there's a non-trivial Christian minority, and many godless. Also you've got things like national hero Skanderbeg (after whom the Waffen-SS division was named) who fought the Ottomans, which to me would at least indicate a not entirely uncomplicated attitude towards the Ottoman era and its religious imprint.
    I've got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it's always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don't even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn't accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Yevardian

    do Albanians really pretend to be that religious?

    Sample of one, but the only self-professed muslim I have known who insisted that there was nothing wrong with eating pork was an Albanian gypsy classmate of mine. Though if I remember correctly he was circumcised and held to ramadan.

  33. Interesting how it seems some of the stories of some of these prehistoric migrations seem to be being rewritten now in 2021 (Japan and England), almost like the earlier, much publicized studies were very slipshod. Or maybe it is that they have more skeletons now?

    I recall some few archaeologists giving vague cautions about early England. But nothing to make me believe that there was a 50% replacement around 1000-875 BC. I wonder what Reich wrote? I tried to read his book, but couldn’t get far into it, as I had seen that stuff summarized more concisely two or three times, and so it seemed very cliched to me.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @songbird

    Did you mean this one by whyvert? or related to him,

    https://twitter.com/bharatxyz/status/1462193531917770753?s=20

    The world's gone insane man, we worship nogs & vaccines.

    Even on Unz like jim's blog already showed women's right = low tfr, they still look for other solutions.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird

  34. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    Spain’s existence alone should be enough evidence that this “based Catholicsm” meme is nonsense.
     
    Iberia as a whole is exceptionally progressive for reasons that are not entirely clear to me. If you look at polling data for Greece or Italy on questions like immigration or similar hotbutton issues you will find a much greater right-wing bloc. The Iberian peninsula is basically the sunnier, browner and slightly more corrupt version of Sweden.

    I do not think this has much to do with Catholicism. It seems to be an outlier for domestic cultural reasons - certainly when compared to other Med countries. Sadly, I am not aware of a single person of Iberian origin on this blog, so we can't get much insight into why this the case.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Sadly, I am not aware of a single person of Iberian origin on this blog

    I am aware of one who was born on the Iberian side of the Basque Country. And he actually tried to provide some insights on that issue for the Basque case in the previous OT but I doubt he will be willing to repeat himself here for your honor’s convenience. Not all of them extrapolated to the rest of Iberia anyway.

  35. @songbird
    Interesting how it seems some of the stories of some of these prehistoric migrations seem to be being rewritten now in 2021 (Japan and England), almost like the earlier, much publicized studies were very slipshod. Or maybe it is that they have more skeletons now?

    I recall some few archaeologists giving vague cautions about early England. But nothing to make me believe that there was a 50% replacement around 1000-875 BC. I wonder what Reich wrote? I tried to read his book, but couldn't get far into it, as I had seen that stuff summarized more concisely two or three times, and so it seemed very cliched to me.

    Replies: @sher singh

    Did you mean this one by whyvert? or related to him,

    The world’s gone insane man, we worship nogs & vaccines.

    Even on Unz like jim’s blog already showed women’s right = low tfr, they still look for other solutions.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Agree: Svidomyatheart
    • Replies: @songbird
    @sher singh

    Think it was back further. Maybe, in reply to someone? (Birth Gauge?)

    IIRC, Nemets believes that Ukraine will turn black and Indian, unless it rejoins the Russian sphere.

    BTW, I am wondering whether the story about prehistoric India will be rewritten too, based on DNA. Caste mysteriously evolved 1000 years, after PIE invasion? Possible, but, maybe, a second group invaded, back then. (Still PIE?)

  36. @German_reader
    @Coconuts

    Thanks. I have to admit I know very little about Integralism, especially its present-day proponents...do they ever get more specific about the kind of state they would like to construct? Do they have any historical models at all, or is it just a vague appeal to principles? I don't think a return to throne and altar monarchism could be seen as plausible today by any but the most deluded, but what are the alternatives? Some kind of authoritarian corporatism with a special role for the Catholic church, like Franco tried to implement?

    Replies: @Coconuts

    AFAIK the French ones want to recreate a kind of decentralised monarchy based on the Action Francaise tradition. I haven’t paid much attention to the US ones because I thought at this stage they are probably more about putting out powerful takes and trolling people like Dreher.

    The book by Fr. Thomas Crean and Alan Fimister ‘Integralism’ is a good introduction to the theory, but I read it as being about core political theory and philosophy, rather than something setting out a contemporary political program. I found it informative for understanding Catholic historic political philosophy, and also things like Fascist ideology, the Portuguese and pre-war French right etc. I suspect Liberal Catholics didn’t like anyone drawing attention to this older Catholic theory and so didn’t like the book, even though much of the content would have been banal in the context of 1940s or 50s Catholicism.

    In terms of real world regimes Salazar seems to be a reference, but this kind of thing is still mainly cultural and ideological at this time and appears to be a small trend even within Catholicism (like Bronze Age Pervert for Catholics) so they are probably still thinking about things like this.

    From what I know of Franco, he ruled as a kind of absolute monarch ‘by the grace of God’ and non-Catholics didn’t have full citizens rights, Spanish bishops as a body led the arguments against recognising freedom of religious belief at the 2nd Vatican council in the early 60s for example. But this was unusual in that the regime came out of a major civil war.

  37. @Dmitry
    AaronB says:

    Marx and to some extent Hegel, far from manifesting the genuine Christian principle, actually reverted to the exact principle of politics uber alles that Jesus
     
    If you read a lot of New Testament, it's clear that "World to Come" is not only an immaterial world, but the speakers are sometimes speaking like they expect it will soon include the material world, just as in Marx the revolution will re-orient both the material world, as well as spiritual world (although only indexed for man).

    In the historical context of New Testament, Jews are in ambiguous waiting for the arrival of a Messianic age (in which there will be Justice and Peace), which can be very near.

    Among the Jews of this time, the materiality of the world to come, is ambiguous, or there was not the extent of our (modern peoples') separation between the spiritual and material worlds.

    You can see this many times where the implication is not completely clear, if there will be material or immaterial rewards. For example, in Mark 10
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+10&version=NIV
    https://i.imgur.com/YsBuzIa.jpg

    Jesus is clearly saying that you should sell your material things and give to the poor. So this is a material claim, not less than in Marxism.

    But in the end of his answer to Peter, he implies that material things, will be compensated with eternal life in the Messianic Age.

    There is with Marx, a modern lowering of expectations, where the after the end of history, there will not be "eternal life", but at best justice, equality, and a spiritual return of a non-alienated relation to society.

    However, as in Hegel, Marxism returns some of the ambiguity in the distinction between the material and spiritual life. This is where the material and spiritual are believed to be intermixed. In Marx, you labor activity and spiritual activity become the same. In Hegel , Napoleon is not just an ordinary political leader, but also representative of the world spirit, etc.

    Replies: @A123, @iffen

    All Bibles are the works of fallible mankind. Translations of Edits of Translations.

    -A- At best, they are genuine attempts to grasp the glory of The Father & The Son.
    -B- At worst, they can be outright manipulation.
    -C- Most often, they are between these two extremes.

    The King James Bible is an example of Case C. Part of the edit was an intentional tilt to make the work more friendly to the monarchy.

    Part of serious Protestant belief is that all parts of the various Bibles are not created equal. How to weight portions of texts from different sources is difficult. Blindly accepting a single version as perfect? That is the first step towards recreating the “Paid Indulgences” of the failed Catholic Church from ~500 AD.
    ___

    Also, consider KJV 1 is circa 1611, KJV 2 from 1769. Over reading a document that is 200-400 years old is perilous.

    Modern migration involving powered ships and even faster airplanes undercuts the assumptions of the ancient text. KJV verse applies to a basically similar “stranger” from the next town. There is no reason to believe it applies to unassimilable, violent Jihadists from another continent.

    A KJV 3 is badly over due. However, there is not enough cohesion at this point to update the document to exclude things that made sense in historical context but are crazy now. To paraphrase, “The Bible is Not a Suicide Pact for Christianity”

    PEACE 😇

  38. @sher singh
    @songbird

    Did you mean this one by whyvert? or related to him,

    https://twitter.com/bharatxyz/status/1462193531917770753?s=20

    The world's gone insane man, we worship nogs & vaccines.

    Even on Unz like jim's blog already showed women's right = low tfr, they still look for other solutions.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird

    Think it was back further. Maybe, in reply to someone? (Birth Gauge?)

    IIRC, Nemets believes that Ukraine will turn black and Indian, unless it rejoins the Russian sphere.

    BTW, I am wondering whether the story about prehistoric India will be rewritten too, based on DNA. Caste mysteriously evolved 1000 years, after PIE invasion? Possible, but, maybe, a second group invaded, back then. (Still PIE?)

  39. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.
     
    These people are demented Larpers. Outside maybe of the papal state, such a thing never existed anywhere even in medieval Europe. They should remember what happened to popes like Gregory VII and Boniface VIII, when they overreached in their dealings with secular powers and tried subordinating the temporal power to the spiritual power.
    I read the excerpts in Dreher's article and I'm completely unsympathetic to the Integralist programme as outlined there. These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran's system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant "anything goes" liberalism.

    Replies: @A123, @Hyperborean, @Coconuts, @silviosilver

    I remember reading Dreher’s article, it is a bit weasly, given that Britain until the Catholic emancipation in the 1830s would probably count as a Protestant Integralist regime and in certain ways still is (the unwritten constitution is supposed to be the Protestant version of ‘Natural Law’ and the queen still reigns based on it), Franco’s Spain was an Integralist regime, there was one in the Dominican Republic IIRC and so on.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    Franco’s Spain was an Integralist regime
     
    Franco certainly was a pretty devout Catholic and gave the church a highly privileged position in his regime, but he didn't take orders from bishops and priests. And near the end of his life he actually seems to have developed somewhat bitter feelings about much of the clergy, since he felt they weren't grateful enough for everything he had done for the Church (that's from Stanley Payne's Franco biography). So I'm not sure I would classify his regime as integralist in the sense Vermeule and others like him seem to be advocating. Franco also was a Spanish nationalist who dreamt of turning Spain into a great power again, so I doubt he'd been thrilled about having Spain subsumed in a kind of world government under the pope.
    I'll be honest, for me it's primarily an issue of national sovereignty. I have no interest in a regime where priests would have unquestioned authority and could order the secular power around. Especially not given the Catholic Church's support for mass immigration, which for me is the central issue.
    Thanks for your comments about the book by Crean and Fimister. I think I need to look at it myself some time, though I suspect it will enrage me.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  40. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader

    I remember reading Dreher's article, it is a bit weasly, given that Britain until the Catholic emancipation in the 1830s would probably count as a Protestant Integralist regime and in certain ways still is (the unwritten constitution is supposed to be the Protestant version of 'Natural Law' and the queen still reigns based on it), Franco's Spain was an Integralist regime, there was one in the Dominican Republic IIRC and so on.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Franco’s Spain was an Integralist regime

    Franco certainly was a pretty devout Catholic and gave the church a highly privileged position in his regime, but he didn’t take orders from bishops and priests. And near the end of his life he actually seems to have developed somewhat bitter feelings about much of the clergy, since he felt they weren’t grateful enough for everything he had done for the Church (that’s from Stanley Payne’s Franco biography). So I’m not sure I would classify his regime as integralist in the sense Vermeule and others like him seem to be advocating. Franco also was a Spanish nationalist who dreamt of turning Spain into a great power again, so I doubt he’d been thrilled about having Spain subsumed in a kind of world government under the pope.
    I’ll be honest, for me it’s primarily an issue of national sovereignty. I have no interest in a regime where priests would have unquestioned authority and could order the secular power around. Especially not given the Catholic Church’s support for mass immigration, which for me is the central issue.
    Thanks for your comments about the book by Crean and Fimister. I think I need to look at it myself some time, though I suspect it will enrage me.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Franco certainly was a pretty devout Catholic and gave the church a highly privileged position in his regime, but he didn’t take orders from bishops and priests. And near the end of his life he actually seems to have developed somewhat bitter feelings about much of the clergy, since he felt they weren’t grateful enough for everything he had done for the Church (that’s from Stanley Payne’s Franco biography).
     
    This was because of the 2nd Vatican council in the 60s and the liberalisation of the Church, it moved away from the kind of teachings Franco and Salazar were familiar with, which were those set out in the Integralism book, towards the more democratic ones which the Church puts forwards now.

    The way I read it it is more about the Church teaching being a kind of moral or philosophical framework, like a constitution or ideology, than priests being able to control the temporal power politically, but it is understandable that it won't be appealing for a non-Catholic audience (apparently there are now people working on a Protestant version of Integralism).

    That Integralism book has also been criticised (again, by more liberal Catholics) for repeating 'reactionary' or old fashioned teachings about immigration like these (this is from Aquinas):

    A city which must engage in much trade in order to supply its needs also has to put up with the continuous presence of foreigners. But intercourse with foreigners, according to Aristotle’s Politics, is particularly harmful to civic customs. For it is inevitable that strangers, brought up under other laws and customs, will in many cases act as the citizens are not wont to act and thus, since the citizens are drawn by their example to act likewise, their own civic life is upset.

    Replies: @German_reader

  41. @A123
    @songbird


    There are dummies in Japan now saying that part of the reason TFR is collapsing is that the state does not spend enough on education.

    Seems obvious to me that, if you had two states with equal human capital, then the one that banned everything past two year colleges would handily out compete the other.
     
    Something of an over simplification on your part.

    A wealthly husband can support more children. Thus, you want enough Citizen 4-year+ graduates to fill those economic roles. Engineers & surgeons are necessary. You cannot get that with a 2 year degree.

    Four year degrees in the arts that are potential bastions of "victim studies" (gender, ethnic, etc.) should be shutdown entirely. Science & business fields could be reviewed by the number of "Post Docs" stuck serving as underpaid adjunct lecturers.
    ____

    Another improvement that would help -- Students Loans should only be available based on future earning potential. "High Debt / Low Pay" blocks family formation. AOC's loan forgiveness is a silly idea. Prevention is the sensible answer.

    There is a concept problem with the idea of Student Loans. Some % of students inevitably start but never finish a degree program. This can also lead to the "High Debt / Low Pay" trap. Ideally people should save first and then go to University.

    Public Universities with much lower tuition do well in the Southern U.S. However these also come with their own political complications.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @iffen

    Or we could just sit back and let the breeders breed.

  42. @Emil Nikola Richard

    And many thanks again to Ron Unz for having created a new Open thread, it’s very generous, and I think I can say for all regular commenters that we appreciate it very much!
     
    It's like having a rich uncle who gives you that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn't ever fork out for.

    Replies: @iffen

    that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.

    It wasn’t the money. They didn’t want you to shoot your eye out.

    • Replies: @Max Demian
    @iffen



    It’s like having a rich uncle who gives you that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.
     
    It wasn’t the money. They didn’t want you to shoot your eye out.
     
    What about giving a child a rifle? (File #21, Dragnet_49-12-22_030_22_Rifle_for_Christmas.mp3)

    From The Untold Truth Of Dragnet [Grunge, September 2021]:


    However, one of the show's most controversial stories, first aired on radio in 1949 and then filmed for TV in 1952, was ".22 Rifle for Christmas." In this holiday episode, Joe Friday receives a call about a missing 9-year-old boy named Stanley Johnstone. [...]
     

    As detailed in "My Name's Friday," by Michael J. Hayde, the show received a mostly positive response from viewers. However, the National Rifle Association strongly objected to the episode in a letter to Webb. The "Dragnet" creator turned the letter over to LAPD which promised the pro-gun organization that they could expect at least 10 more episodes "illustrating the folly of giving rifles to children."
     
    I would be interested to know what your view of the NRA is.

    To download the entire OTRR Certified Set of Dragnet as eleven .zip files, scroll to the bottom of the first page linked at the top of this comment. Or simply convert the following into a functional URL:
    archive DOT org/details/OTRR_Certified_Dragnet

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

  43. @Dmitry
    AaronB says:

    Marx and to some extent Hegel, far from manifesting the genuine Christian principle, actually reverted to the exact principle of politics uber alles that Jesus
     
    If you read a lot of New Testament, it's clear that "World to Come" is not only an immaterial world, but the speakers are sometimes speaking like they expect it will soon include the material world, just as in Marx the revolution will re-orient both the material world, as well as spiritual world (although only indexed for man).

    In the historical context of New Testament, Jews are in ambiguous waiting for the arrival of a Messianic age (in which there will be Justice and Peace), which can be very near.

    Among the Jews of this time, the materiality of the world to come, is ambiguous, or there was not the extent of our (modern peoples') separation between the spiritual and material worlds.

    You can see this many times where the implication is not completely clear, if there will be material or immaterial rewards. For example, in Mark 10
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+10&version=NIV
    https://i.imgur.com/YsBuzIa.jpg

    Jesus is clearly saying that you should sell your material things and give to the poor. So this is a material claim, not less than in Marxism.

    But in the end of his answer to Peter, he implies that material things, will be compensated with eternal life in the Messianic Age.

    There is with Marx, a modern lowering of expectations, where the after the end of history, there will not be "eternal life", but at best justice, equality, and a spiritual return of a non-alienated relation to society.

    However, as in Hegel, Marxism returns some of the ambiguity in the distinction between the material and spiritual life. This is where the material and spiritual are believed to be intermixed. In Marx, you labor activity and spiritual activity become the same. In Hegel , Napoleon is not just an ordinary political leader, but also representative of the world spirit, etc.

    Replies: @A123, @iffen

    This is where the material and spiritual are believed to be intermixed.

    Yeah, AaronB, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

  44. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird


    to get to a middling 10 year plus specialist, who wants to spend 5 minutes on a problem and will break out the google in front of me.
     
    My own experience with doctors is 50-50. The last time I went to a physician (~10 years ago) he asked me questions and typed into his laptop and it was obvious he was operating a diagnosis tree program. He touched my chest with a stethoscope for less than a minute and the only other person who made any actual contact with me was the nurse who attached a blood pressure sleeve to my arm and an oxygen meter to my finger.

    If your problem isn't on a main branch of that diagnosis tree I guess I don't want to know what happens.

    Replies: @A123

    My own experience with doctors is 50-50. The last time I went to a physician (~10 years ago) he asked me questions and typed into his laptop and it was obvious he was operating a diagnosis tree program

    I have a very good relationship with my long term GP doctor. We have headed off a significant amount of unnecessary work by documenting some personal body chemistry that is well away from standard.

    A 2-year tech and BigPharma computer program would have called for pharmaceutical intervention that would have made things worse. Odds are that error would have been so damaging I would have needed liver transplant surgery.

    How to protect the medical profession from BigPharma is not a straight line connection to years of education. However, actual understanding is the best counter to computer error.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    There is an awful lot of that sort of thing in my experience. The vast majority of the time diagnosis it's just throwing stock remedies at the wall to see what sticks. Even good doctors are too rushed oftentimes to give a really thorough inquiry.

    My wife has some deep seated thyroid/ adrenal issues and we really have had to do our own research and find a doctor who is willing order in depth blood tests. No joke, a lot of doctors have just jumped to trying to throw anti-depressants at symptoms like "low energy". It's such a joke.

    It's hardly the only similar situation we've seen. It's partly why my desire to "trust the experts" on Covid has been less than enthusiastic.

    Replies: @A123

  45. @A123
    Iran destroys more of Lebanon

    The Nasrallah-shima blast where Iranian Hezbollah destroyed the Beirut Port was apparently not enough.

    Now Iranian Hamas has also blown up part of Lebanon near the Port of Tyre: (1)


    "Initial reports suggested the incident began with a fire in a diesel tanker before spreading to a nearby mosque controlled by Hamas," Deutsche Welle and various agencies wrote.

    "Footage shared by local media showed a number of small, bright red flashes above the port city, followed by a blast and the sound of glass shattering," the report added.
    ...

    "Hamas maintains a presence in a number of Palestinian camps in Lebanon," said Al Jazeera. "The NNA said the army cordoned off the area, preventing people from entering or leaving the camp."
     

    How many more must die before Iran leaves Lebanon?

    Is a partition inevitable?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/huge-blast-rocks-refugee-camp-lebanon-large-casualties-feared

    https://twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1469390921238208512?s=20

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Nonsense. Isreal blew up the fertilizer storage a year or two back and some fairly credible evidence was posted that that was a low-yield nuke. Anything that happens to Lebanon is Israeli-led. Showing pictures of an explosion is evidence Iran did it? You’re hilarious, 123. Israel doesn’t have the courage to go into Lebanon, so they use terror tactics. This is more of the same. But I have an open mind. Where did the “evidence” come from? Because Iran has no reason to bomb Lebanon, Israel, many.

    • Agree: Antiwar7
    • Replies: @A123
    @Jim Christian

    ROTFLMAO

     
    https://media.tenor.com/images/ba1d73b01deca48a3ce24e5ff13cf00c/tenor.gif
     

    A nuke, even a tiny one, would have left radioactive fallout. No fallout exists. It is proven fact that Khamenei is 100% responsible for the massive (but non-nuclear) Nasrallah-shima blast.

    Please keep up your absurd and easily debunked fiction. The comic relief is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇

  46. @Jim Christian
    @A123

    Nonsense. Isreal blew up the fertilizer storage a year or two back and some fairly credible evidence was posted that that was a low-yield nuke. Anything that happens to Lebanon is Israeli-led. Showing pictures of an explosion is evidence Iran did it? You're hilarious, 123. Israel doesn't have the courage to go into Lebanon, so they use terror tactics. This is more of the same. But I have an open mind. Where did the "evidence" come from? Because Iran has no reason to bomb Lebanon, Israel, many.

    Replies: @A123

    ROTFLMAO

     

     

    A nuke, even a tiny one, would have left radioactive fallout. No fallout exists. It is proven fact that Khamenei is 100% responsible for the massive (but non-nuclear) Nasrallah-shima blast.

    Please keep up your absurd and easily debunked fiction. The comic relief is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇

  47. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    Franco’s Spain was an Integralist regime
     
    Franco certainly was a pretty devout Catholic and gave the church a highly privileged position in his regime, but he didn't take orders from bishops and priests. And near the end of his life he actually seems to have developed somewhat bitter feelings about much of the clergy, since he felt they weren't grateful enough for everything he had done for the Church (that's from Stanley Payne's Franco biography). So I'm not sure I would classify his regime as integralist in the sense Vermeule and others like him seem to be advocating. Franco also was a Spanish nationalist who dreamt of turning Spain into a great power again, so I doubt he'd been thrilled about having Spain subsumed in a kind of world government under the pope.
    I'll be honest, for me it's primarily an issue of national sovereignty. I have no interest in a regime where priests would have unquestioned authority and could order the secular power around. Especially not given the Catholic Church's support for mass immigration, which for me is the central issue.
    Thanks for your comments about the book by Crean and Fimister. I think I need to look at it myself some time, though I suspect it will enrage me.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Franco certainly was a pretty devout Catholic and gave the church a highly privileged position in his regime, but he didn’t take orders from bishops and priests. And near the end of his life he actually seems to have developed somewhat bitter feelings about much of the clergy, since he felt they weren’t grateful enough for everything he had done for the Church (that’s from Stanley Payne’s Franco biography).

    This was because of the 2nd Vatican council in the 60s and the liberalisation of the Church, it moved away from the kind of teachings Franco and Salazar were familiar with, which were those set out in the Integralism book, towards the more democratic ones which the Church puts forwards now.

    The way I read it it is more about the Church teaching being a kind of moral or philosophical framework, like a constitution or ideology, than priests being able to control the temporal power politically, but it is understandable that it won’t be appealing for a non-Catholic audience (apparently there are now people working on a Protestant version of Integralism).

    That Integralism book has also been criticised (again, by more liberal Catholics) for repeating ‘reactionary’ or old fashioned teachings about immigration like these (this is from Aquinas):

    A city which must engage in much trade in order to supply its needs also has to put up with the continuous presence of foreigners. But intercourse with foreigners, according to Aristotle’s Politics, is particularly harmful to civic customs. For it is inevitable that strangers, brought up under other laws and customs, will in many cases act as the citizens are not wont to act and thus, since the citizens are drawn by their example to act likewise, their own civic life is upset.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    This was because of the 2nd Vatican council in the 60s and the liberalisation of the Church, it moved away from the kind of teachings Franco and Salazar were familiar with
     
    Yes, it was in the context of clergy voicing pro-democracy sentiments iirc.

    The way I read it it is more about the Church teaching being a kind of moral or philosophical framework, like a constitution or ideology, than priests being able to control the temporal power politically
     
    You're probably right, but the experience of medieval and early modern Europe imo clearly indicates that even in societies which understood themselves as fundamentally Christian there always was great potential for friction and conflict between spiritual and temporal power, with much resentment among laymen against the privileges and immunities of the clergy (let alone such pretensions as the right to depose secular rulers which some medieval popes claimed). I need to read the book, to see if they adress this issue in any way.
    (on that note, I downloaded the book, and noticed that in the index it says about the two swords that both belong to St Peter. This was contested in the conflicts between the medieval papacy and the emperor/other secular rulers. The issue is whethe secular power is merely derived from the papacy with its power of the keys, or has an existence of its own - after all the empire existed before the papacy and in the minds of many medieval Christians had its own role in the salvational scheme. So these issues were a source of conflict even in medieval Christendom).

    That Integralism book has also been criticised (again, by more liberal Catholics) for repeating ‘reactionary’ or old fashioned teachings about immigration like these

     

    A presumably racialist reviewer on Amazon criticized it for being pro-immigration. I looked it up, and indeed in chapter 10 there's an argument that "the temporal commonwealth has a duty to harbour the outcast and must offer refuge according to its capacity to those in mortal need or fleeing unjust persecution". Now the question is what does mortal need mean? The footnote refers to an Apostolic Constitution by Pius XII from 1952, which apparently lists as possible reasons "revolutions in their own countries" (I presume mostly a reference to the Eastern bloc at the time), but also "unemployment or hunger". So even while there are some qualifying statements, this can still be construed as reasonably close to the position of today's Catholic church that there's a duty for richer states to accept migrants for purely economic reasons. This is a recipe for national suicide given the demographic realities of the 21st century.
    But I really need to read the book, it looks interesting (don't know when I'll get around to it though).

    Replies: @Coconuts

  48. @Hyperborean
    Reply to AP in the previous thread:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-170/#comment-5062526

    Wokism is the newest American Protestant religious revival. It very closely parallels American Protestantism. Catholics becoming woke is analogous to Catholics converting to charismatic Protestant faiths, as is occurring in Brazil.

     


    Here a Protestant minister highlights the specific Protestant characteristics of Wokeness:
     
    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.

    Latin American liberation theology met with approval in the United States, but its use of “Marxist concepts” led in the mid-1980s to an admonition by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). While stating that “in itself, the expression ‘theology of liberation’ is a thoroughly valid term”, the prefect Cardinal Ratzinger rejected certain forms of Latin American liberation theology for focusing on institutionalized or systemic sin and for identifying Catholic Church hierarchy in South America as members of the same privileged class that had long been oppressing indigenous populations from the arrival of Pizarro onward.
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    —-

    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.

    *Their governance over Amerindians in the Southern Cone was even praised by Rousseau, Voltaire and Montesquieu.

    —-

    As for Protestantism causing the French Revolution, the root causes of dissatisfaction with the traditional Catholic order were rather similar in France, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Latin America; which led to similar Anti-Clerical sentiments and movements – though the degree of success and violence varies by country and era.

    It is fine to reject the anti-clericals, but simply blaming Protestantism without understanding their dissatisfaction with Integralism will merely lead to a Québécois-like Silent Revolution for any future neo-traditionalist régime.

    —-

    I have no antipathy towards Catholics, but Integralists like Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule are like a 21th century reincarnation of a 19th century ‘anti-papist’ pamphlet:

    I want to suggest a principle of immigration priority that should, I hope, be broadly acceptable or at least intriguing for all right-thinking persons concerned that current American immigration policy is racist and classist, explicitly or implicitly, de jure or de facto. The principle is to give lexical priority to confirmed Catholics, all of whom will jump immediately to the head of the queue. Yes, some will convert in order to gain admission; this is a feature, not a bug.

    This principle will disproportionately favor immigrants from Africa, Asia, and Latin America. (Note here that the priority is for actual Catholics, not for applicants from “historically Catholic countries”; relatively few Western Europeans will pass through the eye of the needle, and the Irish will be almost totally excluded). It will disproportionately favor the poor, and will draw no distinction between those seeking asylum based on a fear of persecution, and those fleeing “mere” economic hardship. It will in effect require opening the southern border of the United States, although immigration from Canada will rightly become a rare and difficult event, at least if we do not count a small subset of Quebecois.

    I venture to say that any opposition to this proposal almost necessarily defends some alternative principle of immigration priority that allocates fewer spots to non-whites and to the poor, and is thus a troubling indicator of racism and classism infesting whoever voices that opposition. We must overcome the know-nothing bigotry of the past. As the superb blog Semiduplex observes, Catholics need to rethink the nation-state. We have come a long way, but we still have far to go — towards the eventual formation of the Empire of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and ultimately the world government required by natural law.
     
    https://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2019/07/a-principle-of-immigration-priority-.html

    Replies: @German_reader, @AP

    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.

    Jesuit efforts in Latin America certainly wasn’t de-Europeanisation!

    The Jesuits brilliantly taught the natives of South America to build beautiful baroque churches in the jungles and savannahs:


    They also taught the previously savage natives to play beautiful baroque music:

    https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/paraguay604/music.html

    “These missions, known as reducciones, became home and refuge to thousands of Paraguay’s Guarani Indians. The missionaries not only provided shelter but also taught the Guarani people to play European music and make their own instruments, including the cello, harp and violin. Each mission had a church, an orchestra, several artisans’ shops, and schools of music and painting.”

    The Natives were even composing such music!

    An example:

    This was essentially the opposite of wokeness, which is now trying to nullify Western civilization, even to the point of introducing pre-Christian demon-“gods” to Mexican-American children.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/sep/3/parents-sue-california-over-mandated-chants-aztec-/

    “A group of parents in California sued the State Board of Education Friday over a proposed new “Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum” (ESMC) that would have public school students chanting affirmations to Aztec gods and invoking an ancient Nigerian Yoruba religious prayer.”

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.

    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.

    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    • Agree: Aedib, Not Raul
    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • LOL: sher singh
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Your photos remind me of churches and ruins that I've seen in Costa Rica:

    https://previews.123rf.com/images/dchulov/dchulov1503/dchulov150300322/37797935-cartago-costa-rica-june-17-2012-exterior-of-the-ruins-of-the-santiago-apostol-cathedral-in-cartago-c.jpg
    Exterior of the ruins of the Santiago Apostol church in Cartago, Costa Rica.

    https://previews.123rf.com/images/lanabyko/lanabyko1512/lanabyko151200013/53338721-the-basilica-de-nuestra-senora-de-los-angeles-in-the-city-of-cartago-built-in-1639-costa-rica.jpg
    Basilica de Nuestra Senora de los Angeles in Cartago in Costa Rica.

    , @Hyperborean
    @AP


    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.
     

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)


    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.
     
    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with 'mostly slaughtering the natives', it feels like a moot point.

    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.
     
    Let us just take the Pope's word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix was modelled on one owned by Luís Espinal, a Jesuit priest, journalist and leftwing activist who was murdered by paramilitaries in 1980, when Bolivia was under a dictatorship.

    On Wednesday night, Francis halted his popemobile from the airport to pray at the site where Espinal’s body was found.

    “Dear sisters and brothers. I stopped here to greet you and above all to remember. To remember a brother, our brother, a victim of interests who did not want him to fight for the freedom of Bolivia,” the pope said on the scheduled stop.

    He also reportedly received a medal, bearing a hammer and sickle, from Morales that was issued in memory of Espinal’s death.

    Lombardi said he personally wasn’t offended by Morales’ gift. “You can dispute the significance and use of the symbol now, but the origin is from Espinal and the sense of it was about an open dialogue, not about a specific ideology,” Lombardi said.

    The Argentinian pope has been criticised in some quarters for not doing more to protect leftwing priests during the military dictatorship in his homeland. But since becoming pope in 2013, he has taken steps to reconcile the Vatican with progressive adherents of Liberation Theology, who argue that the Church should agitate for social and political change.

    In Bolivia, Morales – a former coca farmer from an indigenous community – previously upset many in the local clergy by declaring the country secular in a new constitution. However, he has embraced the pope and praised him for supporting poor and marginalised groups.

    Francis has used this trip to Latin America emphasize the problems faced by indigenous communities and to warn against “all totalitarian, ideological or sectarian schemes”.

    On Thursday he urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a “new colonialism” by agencies that impose austerity programmes and calling for the poor to have the “sacred rights” of labor, lodging and land.

    In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope also asked forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the “so-called conquest of America”.

    Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money “the dung of the devil,” and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labour for developed countries.

    Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical “Laudato Si” on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.

    “Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change,” the pope said, decrying a system that “has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature.“

    “This system is by now intolerable: farm workers find it intolerable, laborers find it intolerable, communities find it intolerable, peoples find it intolerable The Earth itself – our sister, Mother Earth, as Saint Francis would say – also finds it intolerable,” he said in an hour-long speech that was interrupted by applause and cheering dozens of times.
     

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/bolivia-communist-crucifix-gift-pope-francis?espv=1

    Granted Bolivian paganism is more like Gaia than Mexican Satanism, but in both cases it is a native version of wokeism that has nothing do with Protestant interference.


    The unique belief system enjoyed renewed attention and celebration during Morales’ nearly 14-year-presidency, a time when he routinely performed Pachamama acts at official government ceremonies. An animated film called Pachamama debuted last year on Netflix, telling the story of 10-year-old Andean boy during the time of the Spanish conquest of Bolivia.

    The fusion of Roman Catholic and indigenous traditions goes on display each year in the early part of summer during a celebration called the feast of the Great Power in La Paz. Dancers wearing elaborate and colorful costumes fill the streets representing Andean folklore in celebration of a 17th century painting of Jesus Christ with native features .

    The patron saint to Bolivia, the Virgen of Copacabana, was discovered and sculpted by an indigenous after the Spanish arrive. Because of that, to some it’s a visual representation of the Pachamama even though it’s a Catholic saint.

    The blend of Christian and ancestral beliefs started by indigenous Bolivians who camouflaged their beliefs under Catholic ones, anthropologists say, but it has become more commonplace in recent history to publicly embrace both, especially during Morales’ presidency. Called religious syncretism, it is recognized by Bolivia’s constitution under the term “Andean cosmovision,” and it is widely practiced by many in the mostly indigenous South American country.

    Morales upset some Catholics because he rewrote the constitution in 2009, stripping special recognition given to the Roman Catholic church. But local Bolivian Catholic priests don’t seem to harbor any ill-will, instead reflecting the symbiotic relationship that exists at the pew level in Bolivia.

    “Our mission today is to avoid confrontation and understand the Aymara/Inca culture,” said Friar Abelino Yeguaori, from inside the Basilica of Our Lady of Copacabana on the shores of Lake Titicaca. “In the church in Bolivia there is a consensus not to destroy, but to try and internalize the people’s faith.”
     

    https://apnews.com/article/south-america-lifestyle-lake-titicaca-bolivia-latin-america-32b018bd433d728ba1d29a7bebc6289f

    Replies: @AP, @Yellowface Anon

    , @Aedib
    @AP

    Is this San Ignacio (Misiones in Argentina)? There is a sizable Ukrainian collectivity in this tiny northern Argentinean province.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Yevardian
    @AP

    Of course, the main reason we still know so much about Aztec and Incan societies is because the missionaries went out of their way to preserve their texts. The previous native-state languages, Nahuatl and Quechua, actually spread to a larger spoken area than previously, literacy in Nahuatl (I don't know so much about Quechua, but the aftermaeth of Tupac Amaru's rebellion definitely resulted in much worse ethnic-tensions than in Central Mexico) was strongly encouraged, whole Aztec codexes post-date the Spanish conquest.
    It took until the 17th Century that the Spanish Empire changed it policy and started actively discouraging usage of local languages, but it was still quite lazy about it. Ironically, it was the independence of Latin America that produced the first active persecution and rejection of any tongues other than Spanish, as previously Spain had always maintained a power-balance between the indigenous peasants against the ostensibly 'white' creole elite.

    Even now the racial lines in Latin American politics remain extremely obvious, with Chavez, Evol Morales, now with Pedro Castillo (I recall a few months ago some Peruvian claiming he was going to the bring the apocalypse and that he'd stay abroad without a visa if I had to, we'll see).

    Oh, last thing, I recall scoffing at Dmitri (maybe a year ago) about how 'he learned Spanish without effort'.. well, it did turn out that was in fact more or less correct, at least regarding reading, or listening with local subtitles. I guess being familiar with Romanian already helped a lot, but I was really surprised by how simple it was, I thought only English was so simple to learn to a functional level. Speaking of accents, I have to say I find Seseo sounds disgusting.

  49. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Franco certainly was a pretty devout Catholic and gave the church a highly privileged position in his regime, but he didn’t take orders from bishops and priests. And near the end of his life he actually seems to have developed somewhat bitter feelings about much of the clergy, since he felt they weren’t grateful enough for everything he had done for the Church (that’s from Stanley Payne’s Franco biography).
     
    This was because of the 2nd Vatican council in the 60s and the liberalisation of the Church, it moved away from the kind of teachings Franco and Salazar were familiar with, which were those set out in the Integralism book, towards the more democratic ones which the Church puts forwards now.

    The way I read it it is more about the Church teaching being a kind of moral or philosophical framework, like a constitution or ideology, than priests being able to control the temporal power politically, but it is understandable that it won't be appealing for a non-Catholic audience (apparently there are now people working on a Protestant version of Integralism).

    That Integralism book has also been criticised (again, by more liberal Catholics) for repeating 'reactionary' or old fashioned teachings about immigration like these (this is from Aquinas):

    A city which must engage in much trade in order to supply its needs also has to put up with the continuous presence of foreigners. But intercourse with foreigners, according to Aristotle’s Politics, is particularly harmful to civic customs. For it is inevitable that strangers, brought up under other laws and customs, will in many cases act as the citizens are not wont to act and thus, since the citizens are drawn by their example to act likewise, their own civic life is upset.

    Replies: @German_reader

    This was because of the 2nd Vatican council in the 60s and the liberalisation of the Church, it moved away from the kind of teachings Franco and Salazar were familiar with

    Yes, it was in the context of clergy voicing pro-democracy sentiments iirc.

    The way I read it it is more about the Church teaching being a kind of moral or philosophical framework, like a constitution or ideology, than priests being able to control the temporal power politically

    You’re probably right, but the experience of medieval and early modern Europe imo clearly indicates that even in societies which understood themselves as fundamentally Christian there always was great potential for friction and conflict between spiritual and temporal power, with much resentment among laymen against the privileges and immunities of the clergy (let alone such pretensions as the right to depose secular rulers which some medieval popes claimed). I need to read the book, to see if they adress this issue in any way.
    (on that note, I downloaded the book, and noticed that in the index it says about the two swords that both belong to St Peter. This was contested in the conflicts between the medieval papacy and the emperor/other secular rulers. The issue is whethe secular power is merely derived from the papacy with its power of the keys, or has an existence of its own – after all the empire existed before the papacy and in the minds of many medieval Christians had its own role in the salvational scheme. So these issues were a source of conflict even in medieval Christendom).

    That Integralism book has also been criticised (again, by more liberal Catholics) for repeating ‘reactionary’ or old fashioned teachings about immigration like these

    A presumably racialist reviewer on Amazon criticized it for being pro-immigration. I looked it up, and indeed in chapter 10 there’s an argument that “the temporal commonwealth has a duty to harbour the outcast and must offer refuge according to its capacity to those in mortal need or fleeing unjust persecution”. Now the question is what does mortal need mean? The footnote refers to an Apostolic Constitution by Pius XII from 1952, which apparently lists as possible reasons “revolutions in their own countries” (I presume mostly a reference to the Eastern bloc at the time), but also “unemployment or hunger”. So even while there are some qualifying statements, this can still be construed as reasonably close to the position of today’s Catholic church that there’s a duty for richer states to accept migrants for purely economic reasons. This is a recipe for national suicide given the demographic realities of the 21st century.
    But I really need to read the book, it looks interesting (don’t know when I’ll get around to it though).

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    So even while there are some qualifying statements, this can still be construed as reasonably close to the position of today’s Catholic church that there’s a duty for richer states to accept migrants for purely economic reasons. This is a recipe for national suicide given the demographic realities of the 21st century.
     
    With those reservations and what is written on p.207 and in note 80 I think this has always been the Catholic Church's position on migration. But in that context I read mortal need to mean actual mortal need; in danger of death, so the economic reasons would be starvation or malnutrition of the migrants (I think the way it would be understood in the 1940s, because it was a more common situation). I suspect this line of argument would also be used to justify things like the founding of the USA in general.

    As I said I don't think the book is setting out a practical political program, it's aimed at describing an alternative to the political philosophy and ideology of Liberalism. This is why it starts from first principles; what is politics, what is the purpose of politics and political systems etc.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

  50. @iffen
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.

    It wasn't the money. They didn't want you to shoot your eye out.

    Replies: @Max Demian

    It’s like having a rich uncle who gives you that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.

    It wasn’t the money. They didn’t want you to shoot your eye out.

    What about giving a child a rifle? (File #21, Dragnet_49-12-22_030_22_Rifle_for_Christmas.mp3)

    From The Untold Truth Of Dragnet [Grunge, September 2021]:

    However, one of the show’s most controversial stories, first aired on radio in 1949 and then filmed for TV in 1952, was “.22 Rifle for Christmas.” In this holiday episode, Joe Friday receives a call about a missing 9-year-old boy named Stanley Johnstone. […]

    [MORE]

    As detailed in “My Name’s Friday,” by Michael J. Hayde, the show received a mostly positive response from viewers. However, the National Rifle Association strongly objected to the episode in a letter to Webb. The “Dragnet” creator turned the letter over to LAPD which promised the pro-gun organization that they could expect at least 10 more episodes “illustrating the folly of giving rifles to children.”

    I would be interested to know what your view of the NRA is.

    To download the entire OTRR Certified Set of Dragnet as eleven .zip files, scroll to the bottom of the first page linked at the top of this comment. Or simply convert the following into a functional URL:
    archive DOT org/details/OTRR_Certified_Dragnet

    • Replies: @A123
    @Max Demian

    Leftoid Iffen was making an oblique reference to "A Christmas Story"

    https://youtu.be/qgjPa5JkecA?t=1

    As a low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo he is doing the best he can with staggeringly limited mental capabilities.

    I feel pity for him. I would help Iffen if I could but....

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @iffen

    , @songbird
    @Max Demian

    IIRC, they also had an episode where a little Mexican boy "steals" baby Jesus from a nativity scene, just because he promised to take him for a ride in his new wagon.

    In the US, there was a whole genre of Christmas specials, dating back earlier than anyone would guess, built around normalizing invasion from Mexicans. As if a warm welcome for the stranger helped Christianity and the public celebration of Christmas.

    The stereotype of Dragnet is that it is about ueber-straitlaced Joe Friday. I don't know a lot about Webb, but it is interesting to note that he was raised by a single mother, not unlike many porn actresses.

    I know a lot of people here aren't interested in American history, especially as it regards to political media, but I just listened to a few minutes of one of Webb's other radio dramas, One Out of Seven (from 1946) and I said to myself "WTF?!"


    Webb starred on several other radio dramas including the popular “One Out Of Seven” on which he voiced all of the characters. The series also provided Webb with a platform to advocate against racial prejudice. This was an interesting departure from his personal, mainly rightwing, Roman Catholic, political views.
     
    https://bluejayblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/something-about-jack-webb/

    (Seems like the intro for each episode had Nazis machine-gunning Jews against a wall, but I think was about blacks? I don't know, I just listened to a few snatches.

    Interestingly, seems like it was broadcast from San Francisco. He became the host after getting a discharge from the army, during the war, without ever having done any fighting. (Sounds a bit fishy? But maybe was true as his mother was a single mother)

    Incidentally, I feel 100% sure that there is no way that this shit was popular. But it does make me curious about whether the press amplified it. Probably not the mainstream press, I would guess. And yet, I'm not sure as one of its themes seems to be about amplifying stories from the press.

    https://archive.org/details/One_Out_Of_Seven/OneOutOfSeven46-xx-xxFreeMen.mp3

  51. @Max Demian
    @iffen



    It’s like having a rich uncle who gives you that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.
     
    It wasn’t the money. They didn’t want you to shoot your eye out.
     
    What about giving a child a rifle? (File #21, Dragnet_49-12-22_030_22_Rifle_for_Christmas.mp3)

    From The Untold Truth Of Dragnet [Grunge, September 2021]:


    However, one of the show's most controversial stories, first aired on radio in 1949 and then filmed for TV in 1952, was ".22 Rifle for Christmas." In this holiday episode, Joe Friday receives a call about a missing 9-year-old boy named Stanley Johnstone. [...]
     

    As detailed in "My Name's Friday," by Michael J. Hayde, the show received a mostly positive response from viewers. However, the National Rifle Association strongly objected to the episode in a letter to Webb. The "Dragnet" creator turned the letter over to LAPD which promised the pro-gun organization that they could expect at least 10 more episodes "illustrating the folly of giving rifles to children."
     
    I would be interested to know what your view of the NRA is.

    To download the entire OTRR Certified Set of Dragnet as eleven .zip files, scroll to the bottom of the first page linked at the top of this comment. Or simply convert the following into a functional URL:
    archive DOT org/details/OTRR_Certified_Dragnet

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    Leftoid Iffen was making an oblique reference to “A Christmas Story”

    As a low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo he is doing the best he can with staggeringly limited mental capabilities.

    I feel pity for him. I would help Iffen if I could but….

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @iffen
    @A123

    One would think that a bot, even a beta version, would be able to find the definition of a NeverTrumper.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  52. @Max Demian
    @iffen



    It’s like having a rich uncle who gives you that BB gun for Christmas your parents wouldn’t ever fork out for.
     
    It wasn’t the money. They didn’t want you to shoot your eye out.
     
    What about giving a child a rifle? (File #21, Dragnet_49-12-22_030_22_Rifle_for_Christmas.mp3)

    From The Untold Truth Of Dragnet [Grunge, September 2021]:


    However, one of the show's most controversial stories, first aired on radio in 1949 and then filmed for TV in 1952, was ".22 Rifle for Christmas." In this holiday episode, Joe Friday receives a call about a missing 9-year-old boy named Stanley Johnstone. [...]
     

    As detailed in "My Name's Friday," by Michael J. Hayde, the show received a mostly positive response from viewers. However, the National Rifle Association strongly objected to the episode in a letter to Webb. The "Dragnet" creator turned the letter over to LAPD which promised the pro-gun organization that they could expect at least 10 more episodes "illustrating the folly of giving rifles to children."
     
    I would be interested to know what your view of the NRA is.

    To download the entire OTRR Certified Set of Dragnet as eleven .zip files, scroll to the bottom of the first page linked at the top of this comment. Or simply convert the following into a functional URL:
    archive DOT org/details/OTRR_Certified_Dragnet

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    IIRC, they also had an episode where a little Mexican boy “steals” baby Jesus from a nativity scene, just because he promised to take him for a ride in his new wagon.

    [MORE]

    In the US, there was a whole genre of Christmas specials, dating back earlier than anyone would guess, built around normalizing invasion from Mexicans. As if a warm welcome for the stranger helped Christianity and the public celebration of Christmas.

    The stereotype of Dragnet is that it is about ueber-straitlaced Joe Friday. I don’t know a lot about Webb, but it is interesting to note that he was raised by a single mother, not unlike many porn actresses.

    I know a lot of people here aren’t interested in American history, especially as it regards to political media, but I just listened to a few minutes of one of Webb’s other radio dramas, One Out of Seven (from 1946) and I said to myself “WTF?!”

    Webb starred on several other radio dramas including the popular “One Out Of Seven” on which he voiced all of the characters. The series also provided Webb with a platform to advocate against racial prejudice. This was an interesting departure from his personal, mainly rightwing, Roman Catholic, political views.

    https://bluejayblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/something-about-jack-webb/

    (Seems like the intro for each episode had Nazis machine-gunning Jews against a wall, but I think was about blacks? I don’t know, I just listened to a few snatches.

    Interestingly, seems like it was broadcast from San Francisco. He became the host after getting a discharge from the army, during the war, without ever having done any fighting. (Sounds a bit fishy? But maybe was true as his mother was a single mother)

    Incidentally, I feel 100% sure that there is no way that this shit was popular. But it does make me curious about whether the press amplified it. Probably not the mainstream press, I would guess. And yet, I’m not sure as one of its themes seems to be about amplifying stories from the press.

    • Thanks: Max Demian
  53. @Dmitry
    I'm sad I missed this debate with AP.

    outlier among Catholic
     
    The most politically "woke" country of Western Europe, is surely Republic of Ireland, which has been one of the most traditionally Catholic.

    That's not to say, Catholicism causes "wokeness" - there is obviously no correlation in Europe, as Italy is more "anti-Woke" politically.

    That's a guideline which any historian should say. That important information is in the small details and particular circumstances of how the religious sect matches other factors, in these countries.


    accepting refugees (i.e, population
     
    This is one of few topics of modern politics, where Jesus says clear and unambiguous things, almost written like an instruction guide - that you should help strangers, and that your neighbor is the person who is good to you, not the person who is related to you or part of your tribe.

    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor - this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them - this is difficult to re-interpret.


    for trans rights:
     
    Regardless that most people who are interested in this topic are secular.

    New Testament has perhaps some quite "woke" concordance views in this areas, implies that gender is not important. On the other hand, Origen, who has castrated himself, not exactly a church father.


    the pattern (among Europeans) has been Evangelical Protestants most right wing, then Catholics, and then mainline Protestants
     
    Because America is a different country, some of the social markers will be different.

    For example, in Northern Ireland, religious sects also partly indicate ethnic differences, as in Israel/Palestine, Lebanon, or Balkans. In Germany, the Catholic/Protestant might not indicate any ethnic differences. In USA, it might correlate to income levels. In e.g. Scotland, these correlation might be the opposite, than in USA, Brazil, etc.

    This is all local detail. And of course, the interesting things in this topic, are in the small local details.


    least woke countries remain Catholic and Orthodox ones. And not just backward ones in the Balkans, also Poland and Italy, even Czechia
     
    Compared to Western Europe, Poland is recently communist, poor, low income, country with a low standard of living. You would expect their politics to be different, regardless of a religion.

    Fact that Poland shares religion with many countries in Western Europe like Belgium or France, is probably the least relevant indicator for understanding their politics.

    In terms of Catholicism in Poland, the interesting thing is that Poland is still quite a religious country, while slavic nationalities in Russia are the most secular or non-religious population in Europe, and central Europe countries like Czech Republic are also quite non-religious.

    It's something Polish historians would probably be able to answer only. But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker in Poland, and Poland is country often under partial or total occupation.

    This is, Catholicism is perhaps felt like a national characteristic in Poland, and Poles are often being threatened by occupation of the neighbours. In Germany, for comparison, you can see Catholicism/Protestantism doesn't have any national connotation. Whereas in Ireland, Catholicism has a national connotation.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @silviosilver

    The most politically “woke” country in Western Europe is the Republic of Ireland

    Yes, but, Dim, have you been around the Irish? This is because they are so innocent and sweet. They are like children who want to be everybody’s friend and be kind and gracious to everybody. They don’t know how to say No. That’s because they are completely unprotected and they don’t have those hard*ss Germanic instincts. And because their tradition is one of the oldest in Northern Europe that stems from the likes of Pelagius.

    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I’m not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    they are so innocent and sweet
     
    Lol I know Republic of Ireland.

    If you said they are "responsive, charming, extroverted, and socially intelligent", this is true. I will disagree with "innocent".

    They are the most extroverted, self-confident, socially intelligent, kind of "tropical" friendly people, after maybe Italy.

    But charming is not the same as innocent, although maybe a sign of high levels of charming skills if you can make people (or teacher, police, boss, parents, etc) think you are innocent.

    -

    By the way, I wonder why they developed such a friendly personality there? I was enjoying speculating something like claims Japanese became very polite, because they were without weapons, under control of samurais. Maybe Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills against English.


    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I’m not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.
     
    What it is said by Irish cultural about politics, is "we always support the weaker side", because the mainstream attitude is to view themselves as victims of imperialism.

    So they (I mean mainstream of culture) view themselves like they victims of history, like another African-Americans or Native Indians. It's not really the same as "woke" of the UK, as it doesn't exactly involve as self-flagellation. Still it is something like "woke allies". Whereas in the Kingdom, the woke view is that to admit they were imperialists, and then self-flagellate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @LatW

  54. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker
     
    That's the case for all of Eastern Europe, no? It's similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats. Religion becomes an identity marker and on some level tied to ethnicity. This is ironic given the low levels of genuine religiosity in these countries.

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I've seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church. Putin's public displays of Orthodox piety is not matched by the church-avoiding youth. Yet public declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin - without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.

    This pattern repeats itself in country after country in Eastern Europe. A naïve analysis would conclude that Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn't the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by 'disapora nationalists', projecting their fantasies onto societies that do not conform to their cherished ideals.

    Replies: @German_reader, @AP, @Dmitry

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I’ve seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church.

    It is rapidly secularizing from a very high base. There is much room to secularize. A country that is already completely secular can’t secularize much.

    https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/

    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.

    Overall Polish rate is higher than any Western nation. Even the Polish under 40 rate (26%) is higher than the overall rate anywhere in Europe.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles – 6% lower than among older Poles.

    Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case.

    Weekly Church attendance is much higher among Poles than among Western Europeans (see above).

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.

    Poland has low rates of divorce and children being born out of wedlock:

    I posted this map before on the massive open thread with about 1000 posts, so you may have missed it:

    The old territory of the Second Polish Republic, encompassing most of Poland plus western Ukraine and western Belarus, is a sort of island of low out-of-wedlock births.

    a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’

    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @AP


    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.
     
    Absolutely, but the trend is undeniable. I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised. These things happen blazingly fast and it's already under way.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles – 6% lower than among older Poles.
     
    This is my argument. Public identification in Eastern Europe with religion typically has more to do with ethnicity and national belonging than tracking closely to actual religious observance and participation. Poland is no different in this regard.

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.
     
    But widespread. Look at what people do, not what their law says.

    children being born out of wedlock
     
    Fair point, but rising very quickly. Let's linger on your graph a little bit.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321608/births+outside+marriage.png

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?


    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.
     
    In terms of pre-marital sex, abortion (illegal ones counted) and church attendence for the youth, the differences between East and West are vastly overblown. In terms of attitudes on race and immigration, I'd say most of Eastern Europe is where the USA was in the early 1990s. Basically moderately liberal with small-c conservative leanings.

    I think there will be full social convergence within the next 20-30 years at the latest between the EU's western and eastern wings.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @AP, @sher singh

  55. Inger Støjberg: Denmark’s ex-immigration minister convicted over illegal asylum seeker policy:

    [MORE]

    A former Danish minister has been convicted of illegally separating asylum-seeking couples where one partner was under 18.

    Inger Støjberg was found guilty in a rare impeachment trial and sentenced to 60 days in prison on Monday.

    The court found that the former minister had neglected her ministerial duties “intentionally or through gross negligence”.

    Judges also found Støjberg guilty of providing parliament with “incorrect or misleading information” and agreed that the order had violated Danish law and the European Convention on Human Rights.

    It was the first time the Court of Impeachment had been convened in Denmark in 26 years.

    Støjberg has maintained her innocence and said she was “very surprised” at the verdict, which cannot be appealed.

    MPs will now decide whether she can continue to serve as a member of the 179-seat Folketing.

    https://www.euronews.com/2021/12/13/inger-st-jberg-denmark-s-ex-immigration-minister-convicted-of-impeachment-over-asylum-poli

  56. @Aedib
    @Thulean Friend

    I'm astonished. German Atlanticists seems so subservient that they are even prone to sacrifice the German world-class industry in the altar of the Atlanticist ideology. They are mongrelizing and destroying the foundation of their formerly marvelous country.
    The most bizarre thing is that Russians are profiting by "not opening" NS2.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @sudden death

    It’s not ideology. It is subservience to the real ruler of Europe: The United States of America.

    I am not exaggerating when I call Europe nothing but a mere collection of puppet states of the US. Germany is by far the most powerful country in the EU and even they have been struggling enormously to get through a common-sense policy like the NS2. What hope is there for less powerful countries? I think Germans will ultimately get it through but this kind of brutal uphill battle for a core national strategic interest is insane.

    This also has implications in the China vs America debates. Most non-Europeans underestimate just to what extent Europe is craven to US diktat. It goes beyond alliances and into the realm of colonialism. China has nothing comparable in size or nature – and never will.

  57. @AP
    @Thulean Friend


    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I’ve seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church.
     
    It is rapidly secularizing from a very high base. There is much room to secularize. A country that is already completely secular can't secularize much.

    https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/

    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.

    https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2018/06/PF.06.13.18_religiouscommitment-03-08-.png

    Overall Polish rate is higher than any Western nation. Even the Polish under 40 rate (26%) is higher than the overall rate anywhere in Europe.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles - 6% lower than among older Poles.

    Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case.
     
    Weekly Church attendance is much higher among Poles than among Western Europeans (see above).

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.

    Poland has low rates of divorce and children being born out of wedlock:

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321608/births+outside+marriage.png

    I posted this map before on the massive open thread with about 1000 posts, so you may have missed it:

    https://miro.medium.com/max/494/1*wYrJCH4UWW-yK6US3tJNbA.png

    The old territory of the Second Polish Republic, encompassing most of Poland plus western Ukraine and western Belarus, is a sort of island of low out-of-wedlock births.

    a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’
     
    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.

    Absolutely, but the trend is undeniable. I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised. These things happen blazingly fast and it’s already under way.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles – 6% lower than among older Poles.

    This is my argument. Public identification in Eastern Europe with religion typically has more to do with ethnicity and national belonging than tracking closely to actual religious observance and participation. Poland is no different in this regard.

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.

    But widespread. Look at what people do, not what their law says.

    children being born out of wedlock

    Fair point, but rising very quickly. Let’s linger on your graph a little bit.

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?

    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.

    In terms of pre-marital sex, abortion (illegal ones counted) and church attendence for the youth, the differences between East and West are vastly overblown. In terms of attitudes on race and immigration, I’d say most of Eastern Europe is where the USA was in the early 1990s. Basically moderately liberal with small-c conservative leanings.

    I think there will be full social convergence within the next 20-30 years at the latest between the EU’s western and eastern wings.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Thulean Friend

    It was pretty easy for the ordinary person to relate to Jesus' life even in living memory. Especially for children, who ran around throwing rocks at things, reading books and doing stuff you find in the Bible. But technology has changed the texture of this immeasurably and seemingly exponentially.

    What is leprosy? What is going on a lake? Looking after sheep? What are sheep? How many TikTok followers did Jesus have? Why was Mary having a kid as teenager? Didn't she have school or contraception? What about David? He threw a stone at someone? Did he use a Spotfiy playing to send Saul to sleep?

    When Hollywood remade Casino Royale, they made Bond impressive for the current year. Even though the gap was only some decades. Tradition carries some legitimacy, but so does relevance, and traditional legitimacy and relevance are ever more sharply opposed by technological progress. Islam is long progressed on the path that Christianity took. Judaism followed Christianity a hundred years ago. The only religions that thrive have separated themselves off entirely, structuring their ways of life to be distant from modern technological ways of living. An effective spiritual system would allow for constant updates. Not necessarily to morals, but to myth! As myth is important and must be relevant. Pagan myths are easier to adjust than monotheistic ones, but they lose for other reasons.

    Traditionalists think they just need to hold fast more on traditional morals, but traditionalists have always thought that. They're shockingly guilty of what they would never suspect of themselves, which is entirely non-spiritual and materialist thinking. It isn't the morals that matter, but the myths. Update the myths through spiritual revelation and feeling and you will pass on the morals. The morals don't sustain themselves. Without the spirituality, they are just Karens karenning and bloated old men carping.

    Obviously it won't be easy. Spiritual revelation is simply not a skill which the vast majority of the conservative religious possess. Far too many of them think that mouthing someone else's words is faith and confuse the fact that they want to tell people, including themselves, how to live, with true religiosity. They're yet another cargo cult of the right. They're all study and admonishment but no "connection." Meanwhile, progressive gender ideology and other limited and distorted forms of spirituality trounce all opposition among the young because they have no opposition where it matters. They have badly mutated and weak revelation, whereas their conservative opposition is trying to do faith by the numbers. It is all pretty ironic.

    , @AP
    @Thulean Friend


    I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised
     
    Likely, often history repeats itself but sometimes it rhymes, and other times it does something surprising (World War II ended in a radically different way from the first war).

    The West is somewhat discredited now, in comparison to how it was when it became Woke. Poles like Scandinavians (woke) but dislike woke Germans. They also admire Italians, who are the least woke of the Western European peoples. And of trends trends seem to be reversing in France. So while it seems clear that Poland is shifting to the left, it is not yet clear how far it will go.

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?
     
    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why. In Italy the most popular party among those under 30 is the neo-fascist one Brothers of Italy. They and their allies are leading in the general election poll:

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/far-right-parties-lead-italian-polls/

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @sher singh
    @Thulean Friend

    late 90s* https://www.unz.com/akarlin/race-realism-in-europe/

    This is my point, these niggas argue the same topics year after year seemingly oblivious to real world, where cuckservative is just an early 2000s islamophobic lib.

    https://twitter.com/terrorhousemag/status/1155158534620950528?s=20

    How nice of you to not only rape their kids, but teach them how to as well, Mr Baroque Spaniard.


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @AP

  58. @Aedib
    @Thulean Friend

    I'm astonished. German Atlanticists seems so subservient that they are even prone to sacrifice the German world-class industry in the altar of the Atlanticist ideology. They are mongrelizing and destroying the foundation of their formerly marvelous country.
    The most bizarre thing is that Russians are profiting by "not opening" NS2.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @sudden death

    Those poor German industrialists have been forewarned or straightout colluded and bought needed quantities of gas in advance at low prices in the summer and pumped it to their own storages, so it’s nothing but crocodile tears regarding their cruel fate. Also there is no better cure from excess gazpromophilia than absurd gas prices as it makes instalation of all other power sources way more profitable too, e.g. Finland new nuclear station will be profitable despite neverending delays 😉

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @sudden death

    The main reason of these absurd gas prices is the shutdown of nuclear power stations.

    Replies: @sudden death

  59. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.
     
    Jesuit efforts in Latin America certainly wasn't de-Europeanisation!

    The Jesuits brilliantly taught the natives of South America to build beautiful baroque churches in the jungles and savannahs:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Ruinas-saomiguel13.jpg

    https://static.dw.com/image/19510452_303.jpg

    They also taught the previously savage natives to play beautiful baroque music:

    https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/paraguay604/music.html

    "These missions, known as reducciones, became home and refuge to thousands of Paraguay's Guarani Indians. The missionaries not only provided shelter but also taught the Guarani people to play European music and make their own instruments, including the cello, harp and violin. Each mission had a church, an orchestra, several artisans' shops, and schools of music and painting."

    The Natives were even composing such music!

    An example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeYBdGN7OQ

    This was essentially the opposite of wokeness, which is now trying to nullify Western civilization, even to the point of introducing pre-Christian demon-"gods" to Mexican-American children.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/sep/3/parents-sue-california-over-mandated-chants-aztec-/

    "A group of parents in California sued the State Board of Education Friday over a proposed new “Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum” (ESMC) that would have public school students chanting affirmations to Aztec gods and invoking an ancient Nigerian Yoruba religious prayer."

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.


    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.
     
    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Hyperborean, @Aedib, @Yevardian

    Your photos remind me of churches and ruins that I’ve seen in Costa Rica:


    Exterior of the ruins of the Santiago Apostol church in Cartago, Costa Rica.


    Basilica de Nuestra Senora de los Angeles in Cartago in Costa Rica.

  60. This neo-gothic masterpiece is located in Coronado near San Jose about a 10 minute walk from where my friend lives. Costa Rica is dotted with many spectacular Roman Catholic churches, not all look alike!

  61. What is being discussed at a similar forum in Russia
    “..Gas in Europe is confidently trading for more than 1500..”

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Mike_from_Russia

    They are the echoes of Annalena Baerbock's words.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia

  62. @A123
    @Max Demian

    Leftoid Iffen was making an oblique reference to "A Christmas Story"

    https://youtu.be/qgjPa5JkecA?t=1

    As a low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo he is doing the best he can with staggeringly limited mental capabilities.

    I feel pity for him. I would help Iffen if I could but....

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @iffen

    One would think that a bot, even a beta version, would be able to find the definition of a NeverTrumper.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @iffen

    Anything that falls outside his political ideology is a #NeverTrumper.

    A123's views are comparable to Trump's at places (e.g. economic nationalism), but Trump is Godless and politically expedient, unlike say, A123's hatred for political Islam & China, or his view of collaboration between geopolitical powers of the same race/religion.

    Replies: @A123

  63. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.
     
    Jesuit efforts in Latin America certainly wasn't de-Europeanisation!

    The Jesuits brilliantly taught the natives of South America to build beautiful baroque churches in the jungles and savannahs:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Ruinas-saomiguel13.jpg

    https://static.dw.com/image/19510452_303.jpg

    They also taught the previously savage natives to play beautiful baroque music:

    https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/paraguay604/music.html

    "These missions, known as reducciones, became home and refuge to thousands of Paraguay's Guarani Indians. The missionaries not only provided shelter but also taught the Guarani people to play European music and make their own instruments, including the cello, harp and violin. Each mission had a church, an orchestra, several artisans' shops, and schools of music and painting."

    The Natives were even composing such music!

    An example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeYBdGN7OQ

    This was essentially the opposite of wokeness, which is now trying to nullify Western civilization, even to the point of introducing pre-Christian demon-"gods" to Mexican-American children.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/sep/3/parents-sue-california-over-mandated-chants-aztec-/

    "A group of parents in California sued the State Board of Education Friday over a proposed new “Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum” (ESMC) that would have public school students chanting affirmations to Aztec gods and invoking an ancient Nigerian Yoruba religious prayer."

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.


    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.
     
    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Hyperborean, @Aedib, @Yevardian

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.

    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with ‘mostly slaughtering the natives’, it feels like a moot point.

    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    Let us just take the Pope’s word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix was modelled on one owned by Luís Espinal, a Jesuit priest, journalist and leftwing activist who was murdered by paramilitaries in 1980, when Bolivia was under a dictatorship.

    On Wednesday night, Francis halted his popemobile from the airport to pray at the site where Espinal’s body was found.

    “Dear sisters and brothers. I stopped here to greet you and above all to remember. To remember a brother, our brother, a victim of interests who did not want him to fight for the freedom of Bolivia,” the pope said on the scheduled stop.

    He also reportedly received a medal, bearing a hammer and sickle, from Morales that was issued in memory of Espinal’s death.

    Lombardi said he personally wasn’t offended by Morales’ gift. “You can dispute the significance and use of the symbol now, but the origin is from Espinal and the sense of it was about an open dialogue, not about a specific ideology,” Lombardi said.

    The Argentinian pope has been criticised in some quarters for not doing more to protect leftwing priests during the military dictatorship in his homeland. But since becoming pope in 2013, he has taken steps to reconcile the Vatican with progressive adherents of Liberation Theology, who argue that the Church should agitate for social and political change.

    In Bolivia, Morales – a former coca farmer from an indigenous community – previously upset many in the local clergy by declaring the country secular in a new constitution. However, he has embraced the pope and praised him for supporting poor and marginalised groups.

    Francis has used this trip to Latin America emphasize the problems faced by indigenous communities and to warn against “all totalitarian, ideological or sectarian schemes”.

    On Thursday he urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a “new colonialism” by agencies that impose austerity programmes and calling for the poor to have the “sacred rights” of labor, lodging and land.

    In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope also asked forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the “so-called conquest of America”.

    Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money “the dung of the devil,” and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labour for developed countries.

    Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical “Laudato Si” on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.

    “Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change,” the pope said, decrying a system that “has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature.“

    “This system is by now intolerable: farm workers find it intolerable, laborers find it intolerable, communities find it intolerable, peoples find it intolerable The Earth itself – our sister, Mother Earth, as Saint Francis would say – also finds it intolerable,” he said in an hour-long speech that was interrupted by applause and cheering dozens of times.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/bolivia-communist-crucifix-gift-pope-francis?espv=1

    Granted Bolivian paganism is more like Gaia than Mexican Satanism, but in both cases it is a native version of wokeism that has nothing do with Protestant interference.

    The unique belief system enjoyed renewed attention and celebration during Morales’ nearly 14-year-presidency, a time when he routinely performed Pachamama acts at official government ceremonies. An animated film called Pachamama debuted last year on Netflix, telling the story of 10-year-old Andean boy during the time of the Spanish conquest of Bolivia.

    The fusion of Roman Catholic and indigenous traditions goes on display each year in the early part of summer during a celebration called the feast of the Great Power in La Paz. Dancers wearing elaborate and colorful costumes fill the streets representing Andean folklore in celebration of a 17th century painting of Jesus Christ with native features .

    The patron saint to Bolivia, the Virgen of Copacabana, was discovered and sculpted by an indigenous after the Spanish arrive. Because of that, to some it’s a visual representation of the Pachamama even though it’s a Catholic saint.

    The blend of Christian and ancestral beliefs started by indigenous Bolivians who camouflaged their beliefs under Catholic ones, anthropologists say, but it has become more commonplace in recent history to publicly embrace both, especially during Morales’ presidency. Called religious syncretism, it is recognized by Bolivia’s constitution under the term “Andean cosmovision,” and it is widely practiced by many in the mostly indigenous South American country.

    Morales upset some Catholics because he rewrote the constitution in 2009, stripping special recognition given to the Roman Catholic church. But local Bolivian Catholic priests don’t seem to harbor any ill-will, instead reflecting the symbiotic relationship that exists at the pew level in Bolivia.

    “Our mission today is to avoid confrontation and understand the Aymara/Inca culture,” said Friar Abelino Yeguaori, from inside the Basilica of Our Lady of Copacabana on the shores of Lake Titicaca. “In the church in Bolivia there is a consensus not to destroy, but to try and internalize the people’s faith.”

    https://apnews.com/article/south-america-lifestyle-lake-titicaca-bolivia-latin-america-32b018bd433d728ba1d29a7bebc6289f

    • Replies: @AP
    @Hyperborean


    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)
     

    Thank you for proving my point. From your link:

    "Antequera also accused the Jesuits of various crimes, demanded that the mission Indians under their care be enslaved and distributed to the citizens of Paraguay"

    You had mistakenly claimed tat the Jesuits were involved in de-Europianization of Christianity. I had shown that it was the exact opposite. The European settlers in Paraguay did not want the Indians to become Europeanized: they wanted them to be dumb, savage slaves. They were acting like genocidal Calvinist filth. Jesuits taught the Indians how to become skillful builders of Baroque churches, practitioners and composers of European music, etc.


    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with ‘mostly slaughtering the natives’, it feels like a moot point.
     
    Nonsense. Most died from disease. These lands are still full of Mestizos, as would be expected since the natives weren't genocided. Natives down there were soon attending European-style universities, putting on European concerts, etc. while the ones subjected to the Calvinists were just getting ethnically cleansed.

    Let us just take the Pope’s word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix
     

    I'm not an expert on liberation theology. Are they profaning the Crucifix - or subverting Communism? Are they trying to assimilate Marxism into Christianity (thereby neutralizing it), as Christians had assimilated pagan thought? It's a dangerous game but very different from the wholesale rejection of Christianity under the woke.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Hyperborean

    You can pretty much see how AP is prizing the general Catholic culture over native traditions, which would be easy if the natives were at an less-developed, inferior position to the colonizers, and AP's esthetic values are more aligned with Catholic or generally Romano-Germanic esthetics. But harder when Jesuits ended up in say, Ming China. At least in Macau, cathedrals co-existed with Ming Chinese housing and bureaucratic structures at the border.

    It might be ironic to see instead of Catholic Iberian culture replacing the Amerindian consciousness in the New World, Amerindian cultural forms are chewing Catholicism from inside because of some deliberate esthetic decisions. It's almost karmic.

  64. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    This was because of the 2nd Vatican council in the 60s and the liberalisation of the Church, it moved away from the kind of teachings Franco and Salazar were familiar with
     
    Yes, it was in the context of clergy voicing pro-democracy sentiments iirc.

    The way I read it it is more about the Church teaching being a kind of moral or philosophical framework, like a constitution or ideology, than priests being able to control the temporal power politically
     
    You're probably right, but the experience of medieval and early modern Europe imo clearly indicates that even in societies which understood themselves as fundamentally Christian there always was great potential for friction and conflict between spiritual and temporal power, with much resentment among laymen against the privileges and immunities of the clergy (let alone such pretensions as the right to depose secular rulers which some medieval popes claimed). I need to read the book, to see if they adress this issue in any way.
    (on that note, I downloaded the book, and noticed that in the index it says about the two swords that both belong to St Peter. This was contested in the conflicts between the medieval papacy and the emperor/other secular rulers. The issue is whethe secular power is merely derived from the papacy with its power of the keys, or has an existence of its own - after all the empire existed before the papacy and in the minds of many medieval Christians had its own role in the salvational scheme. So these issues were a source of conflict even in medieval Christendom).

    That Integralism book has also been criticised (again, by more liberal Catholics) for repeating ‘reactionary’ or old fashioned teachings about immigration like these

     

    A presumably racialist reviewer on Amazon criticized it for being pro-immigration. I looked it up, and indeed in chapter 10 there's an argument that "the temporal commonwealth has a duty to harbour the outcast and must offer refuge according to its capacity to those in mortal need or fleeing unjust persecution". Now the question is what does mortal need mean? The footnote refers to an Apostolic Constitution by Pius XII from 1952, which apparently lists as possible reasons "revolutions in their own countries" (I presume mostly a reference to the Eastern bloc at the time), but also "unemployment or hunger". So even while there are some qualifying statements, this can still be construed as reasonably close to the position of today's Catholic church that there's a duty for richer states to accept migrants for purely economic reasons. This is a recipe for national suicide given the demographic realities of the 21st century.
    But I really need to read the book, it looks interesting (don't know when I'll get around to it though).

    Replies: @Coconuts

    So even while there are some qualifying statements, this can still be construed as reasonably close to the position of today’s Catholic church that there’s a duty for richer states to accept migrants for purely economic reasons. This is a recipe for national suicide given the demographic realities of the 21st century.

    With those reservations and what is written on p.207 and in note 80 I think this has always been the Catholic Church’s position on migration. But in that context I read mortal need to mean actual mortal need; in danger of death, so the economic reasons would be starvation or malnutrition of the migrants (I think the way it would be understood in the 1940s, because it was a more common situation). I suspect this line of argument would also be used to justify things like the founding of the USA in general.

    As I said I don’t think the book is setting out a practical political program, it’s aimed at describing an alternative to the political philosophy and ideology of Liberalism. This is why it starts from first principles; what is politics, what is the purpose of politics and political systems etc.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @Coconuts


    As I said I don’t think the book is setting out a practical political program, it’s aimed at describing an alternative to the political philosophy and ideology of Liberalism. This is why it starts from first principles; what is politics, what is the purpose of politics and political systems etc.
     
    Among the integralists, is there anyone who has discussed what to do when condemned by the Papacy?

    How do they prevent something like Pius XI's excommunication of Charles Maurras and Leon Daudet and the prohibition of their writings from happening again? Particularly considering the doctrine of papal infallibility.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  65. @Thulean Friend
    @AP


    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.
     
    Absolutely, but the trend is undeniable. I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised. These things happen blazingly fast and it's already under way.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles – 6% lower than among older Poles.
     
    This is my argument. Public identification in Eastern Europe with religion typically has more to do with ethnicity and national belonging than tracking closely to actual religious observance and participation. Poland is no different in this regard.

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.
     
    But widespread. Look at what people do, not what their law says.

    children being born out of wedlock
     
    Fair point, but rising very quickly. Let's linger on your graph a little bit.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321608/births+outside+marriage.png

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?


    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.
     
    In terms of pre-marital sex, abortion (illegal ones counted) and church attendence for the youth, the differences between East and West are vastly overblown. In terms of attitudes on race and immigration, I'd say most of Eastern Europe is where the USA was in the early 1990s. Basically moderately liberal with small-c conservative leanings.

    I think there will be full social convergence within the next 20-30 years at the latest between the EU's western and eastern wings.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @AP, @sher singh

    It was pretty easy for the ordinary person to relate to Jesus’ life even in living memory. Especially for children, who ran around throwing rocks at things, reading books and doing stuff you find in the Bible. But technology has changed the texture of this immeasurably and seemingly exponentially.

    What is leprosy? What is going on a lake? Looking after sheep? What are sheep? How many TikTok followers did Jesus have? Why was Mary having a kid as teenager? Didn’t she have school or contraception? What about David? He threw a stone at someone? Did he use a Spotfiy playing to send Saul to sleep?

    When Hollywood remade Casino Royale, they made Bond impressive for the current year. Even though the gap was only some decades. Tradition carries some legitimacy, but so does relevance, and traditional legitimacy and relevance are ever more sharply opposed by technological progress. Islam is long progressed on the path that Christianity took. Judaism followed Christianity a hundred years ago. The only religions that thrive have separated themselves off entirely, structuring their ways of life to be distant from modern technological ways of living. An effective spiritual system would allow for constant updates. Not necessarily to morals, but to myth! As myth is important and must be relevant. Pagan myths are easier to adjust than monotheistic ones, but they lose for other reasons.

    Traditionalists think they just need to hold fast more on traditional morals, but traditionalists have always thought that. They’re shockingly guilty of what they would never suspect of themselves, which is entirely non-spiritual and materialist thinking. It isn’t the morals that matter, but the myths. Update the myths through spiritual revelation and feeling and you will pass on the morals. The morals don’t sustain themselves. Without the spirituality, they are just Karens karenning and bloated old men carping.

    Obviously it won’t be easy. Spiritual revelation is simply not a skill which the vast majority of the conservative religious possess. Far too many of them think that mouthing someone else’s words is faith and confuse the fact that they want to tell people, including themselves, how to live, with true religiosity. They’re yet another cargo cult of the right. They’re all study and admonishment but no “connection.” Meanwhile, progressive gender ideology and other limited and distorted forms of spirituality trounce all opposition among the young because they have no opposition where it matters. They have badly mutated and weak revelation, whereas their conservative opposition is trying to do faith by the numbers. It is all pretty ironic.

  66. @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    So even while there are some qualifying statements, this can still be construed as reasonably close to the position of today’s Catholic church that there’s a duty for richer states to accept migrants for purely economic reasons. This is a recipe for national suicide given the demographic realities of the 21st century.
     
    With those reservations and what is written on p.207 and in note 80 I think this has always been the Catholic Church's position on migration. But in that context I read mortal need to mean actual mortal need; in danger of death, so the economic reasons would be starvation or malnutrition of the migrants (I think the way it would be understood in the 1940s, because it was a more common situation). I suspect this line of argument would also be used to justify things like the founding of the USA in general.

    As I said I don't think the book is setting out a practical political program, it's aimed at describing an alternative to the political philosophy and ideology of Liberalism. This is why it starts from first principles; what is politics, what is the purpose of politics and political systems etc.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    As I said I don’t think the book is setting out a practical political program, it’s aimed at describing an alternative to the political philosophy and ideology of Liberalism. This is why it starts from first principles; what is politics, what is the purpose of politics and political systems etc.

    Among the integralists, is there anyone who has discussed what to do when condemned by the Papacy?

    How do they prevent something like Pius XI’s excommunication of Charles Maurras and Leon Daudet and the prohibition of their writings from happening again? Particularly considering the doctrine of papal infallibility.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Hyperborean

    AFAIK this was done using the Pope’s ordinary magisterium, not the infallible one, the interdict on Maurras and Action Francaise was lifted in 1939. Nor were Action Francaise supporters excommunicated, they just were not allowed to receive sacraments as long as they were active supporters of the movement.

    This didn’t affect Maurras personally because he was an agnostic (don’t know about Daudet), the reason for the interdict was that Maurras and other Action Francaise writers were openly agnostic or atheist in their books and promoted Catholicism for mainly political reasons; they were Catholic but not Christian.

  67. @Hyperborean
    @Coconuts


    As I said I don’t think the book is setting out a practical political program, it’s aimed at describing an alternative to the political philosophy and ideology of Liberalism. This is why it starts from first principles; what is politics, what is the purpose of politics and political systems etc.
     
    Among the integralists, is there anyone who has discussed what to do when condemned by the Papacy?

    How do they prevent something like Pius XI's excommunication of Charles Maurras and Leon Daudet and the prohibition of their writings from happening again? Particularly considering the doctrine of papal infallibility.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    AFAIK this was done using the Pope’s ordinary magisterium, not the infallible one, the interdict on Maurras and Action Francaise was lifted in 1939. Nor were Action Francaise supporters excommunicated, they just were not allowed to receive sacraments as long as they were active supporters of the movement.

    This didn’t affect Maurras personally because he was an agnostic (don’t know about Daudet), the reason for the interdict was that Maurras and other Action Francaise writers were openly agnostic or atheist in their books and promoted Catholicism for mainly political reasons; they were Catholic but not Christian.

  68. @songbird
    Another horror idea: find a near double of Tony Blair, who I think must be the slimiest-looking person in history, and try to bridge the rest of the gap with make-up and acting. Turn him into a character actor, doing the sort of roles that made Peter Lorre, Christopher Lee, and Bela Lugosi famous.

    Replies: @Pericles

    “Dear audience, sit back, relax and watch some true horror.”

    • LOL: songbird
  69. @Hyperborean
    @AP


    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.
     

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)


    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.
     
    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with 'mostly slaughtering the natives', it feels like a moot point.

    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.
     
    Let us just take the Pope's word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix was modelled on one owned by Luís Espinal, a Jesuit priest, journalist and leftwing activist who was murdered by paramilitaries in 1980, when Bolivia was under a dictatorship.

    On Wednesday night, Francis halted his popemobile from the airport to pray at the site where Espinal’s body was found.

    “Dear sisters and brothers. I stopped here to greet you and above all to remember. To remember a brother, our brother, a victim of interests who did not want him to fight for the freedom of Bolivia,” the pope said on the scheduled stop.

    He also reportedly received a medal, bearing a hammer and sickle, from Morales that was issued in memory of Espinal’s death.

    Lombardi said he personally wasn’t offended by Morales’ gift. “You can dispute the significance and use of the symbol now, but the origin is from Espinal and the sense of it was about an open dialogue, not about a specific ideology,” Lombardi said.

    The Argentinian pope has been criticised in some quarters for not doing more to protect leftwing priests during the military dictatorship in his homeland. But since becoming pope in 2013, he has taken steps to reconcile the Vatican with progressive adherents of Liberation Theology, who argue that the Church should agitate for social and political change.

    In Bolivia, Morales – a former coca farmer from an indigenous community – previously upset many in the local clergy by declaring the country secular in a new constitution. However, he has embraced the pope and praised him for supporting poor and marginalised groups.

    Francis has used this trip to Latin America emphasize the problems faced by indigenous communities and to warn against “all totalitarian, ideological or sectarian schemes”.

    On Thursday he urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a “new colonialism” by agencies that impose austerity programmes and calling for the poor to have the “sacred rights” of labor, lodging and land.

    In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope also asked forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the “so-called conquest of America”.

    Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money “the dung of the devil,” and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labour for developed countries.

    Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical “Laudato Si” on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.

    “Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change,” the pope said, decrying a system that “has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature.“

    “This system is by now intolerable: farm workers find it intolerable, laborers find it intolerable, communities find it intolerable, peoples find it intolerable The Earth itself – our sister, Mother Earth, as Saint Francis would say – also finds it intolerable,” he said in an hour-long speech that was interrupted by applause and cheering dozens of times.
     

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/bolivia-communist-crucifix-gift-pope-francis?espv=1

    Granted Bolivian paganism is more like Gaia than Mexican Satanism, but in both cases it is a native version of wokeism that has nothing do with Protestant interference.


    The unique belief system enjoyed renewed attention and celebration during Morales’ nearly 14-year-presidency, a time when he routinely performed Pachamama acts at official government ceremonies. An animated film called Pachamama debuted last year on Netflix, telling the story of 10-year-old Andean boy during the time of the Spanish conquest of Bolivia.

    The fusion of Roman Catholic and indigenous traditions goes on display each year in the early part of summer during a celebration called the feast of the Great Power in La Paz. Dancers wearing elaborate and colorful costumes fill the streets representing Andean folklore in celebration of a 17th century painting of Jesus Christ with native features .

    The patron saint to Bolivia, the Virgen of Copacabana, was discovered and sculpted by an indigenous after the Spanish arrive. Because of that, to some it’s a visual representation of the Pachamama even though it’s a Catholic saint.

    The blend of Christian and ancestral beliefs started by indigenous Bolivians who camouflaged their beliefs under Catholic ones, anthropologists say, but it has become more commonplace in recent history to publicly embrace both, especially during Morales’ presidency. Called religious syncretism, it is recognized by Bolivia’s constitution under the term “Andean cosmovision,” and it is widely practiced by many in the mostly indigenous South American country.

    Morales upset some Catholics because he rewrote the constitution in 2009, stripping special recognition given to the Roman Catholic church. But local Bolivian Catholic priests don’t seem to harbor any ill-will, instead reflecting the symbiotic relationship that exists at the pew level in Bolivia.

    “Our mission today is to avoid confrontation and understand the Aymara/Inca culture,” said Friar Abelino Yeguaori, from inside the Basilica of Our Lady of Copacabana on the shores of Lake Titicaca. “In the church in Bolivia there is a consensus not to destroy, but to try and internalize the people’s faith.”
     

    https://apnews.com/article/south-america-lifestyle-lake-titicaca-bolivia-latin-america-32b018bd433d728ba1d29a7bebc6289f

    Replies: @AP, @Yellowface Anon

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)

    Thank you for proving my point. From your link:

    “Antequera also accused the Jesuits of various crimes, demanded that the mission Indians under their care be enslaved and distributed to the citizens of Paraguay”

    You had mistakenly claimed tat the Jesuits were involved in de-Europianization of Christianity. I had shown that it was the exact opposite. The European settlers in Paraguay did not want the Indians to become Europeanized: they wanted them to be dumb, savage slaves. They were acting like genocidal Calvinist filth. Jesuits taught the Indians how to become skillful builders of Baroque churches, practitioners and composers of European music, etc.

    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with ‘mostly slaughtering the natives’, it feels like a moot point.

    Nonsense. Most died from disease. These lands are still full of Mestizos, as would be expected since the natives weren’t genocided. Natives down there were soon attending European-style universities, putting on European concerts, etc. while the ones subjected to the Calvinists were just getting ethnically cleansed.

    Let us just take the Pope’s word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix

    I’m not an expert on liberation theology. Are they profaning the Crucifix – or subverting Communism? Are they trying to assimilate Marxism into Christianity (thereby neutralizing it), as Christians had assimilated pagan thought? It’s a dangerous game but very different from the wholesale rejection of Christianity under the woke.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    @AP


    You had mistakenly claimed tat the Jesuits were involved in de-Europianization of Christianity. I had shown that it was the exact opposite. The European settlers in Paraguay did not want the Indians to become Europeanized: they wanted them to be dumb, savage slaves. They were acting like genocidal Calvinist filth. Jesuits taught the Indians how to become skillful builders of Baroque churches, practitioners and composers of European music, etc.
     
    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish. From an Amerindian perspective the Jesuits can certainly be seen as helpful, but the Jesuits wished for their own private clerical domain and not to integrate them into the Empire.

    Rancor increased as the Jesuits persuaded the Spanish king to exclude all Europeans, Africans and mestizos (mixed-race people) from entering the pueblos or making contact with the Guaraní. The Jesuits also forbade the use of European languages in their territory. Knowledge of Guaraní grammar, vocabulary and the spoken language was a great advantage for the Jesuits in their efforts to catechize and control the populace.
     
    https://www.historynet.com/fighting-fathers-of-the-guarani-war.htm

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4l9fbe/a_map_of_paraguay_based_on_the_results_for_first/


    Nonsense. Most died from disease. These lands are still full of Mestizos, as would be expected since the natives weren’t genocided.
     
    More a matter of pre-invasion population density and colonial and post-independence settlement patterns than the scale of massacres.

    Were Brazilian and Argentinian settlers also 'filthy Calvinists', unlike their neighbours to the west?

    https://journals.openedition.org/belgeo/docannexe/image/11594/img-7-small580.jpg


    I’m not an expert on liberation theology. Are they profaning the Crucifix – or subverting Communism? Are they trying to assimilate Marxism into Christianity (thereby neutralizing it), as Christians had assimilated pagan thought?

     

    Did you even read down to Pope Francis' speech or the part about Bolivia? Their intentions are very clear.

    It’s a dangerous game but very different from the wholesale rejection of Christianity under the woke.
     
    Is wokism

    A) A uniquely Protestant heresy

    Or

    B) A wholesale rejection of Christianity?

    Either wokism is a Protestant heresy, in which case it can't be unique to Protestants because we see the exact same movements in Catholicism, or it has little to do with Christianity and your condemnation of Protestantism on this point is ill placed.

    Replies: @AP

  70. @iffen
    @A123

    One would think that a bot, even a beta version, would be able to find the definition of a NeverTrumper.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Anything that falls outside his political ideology is a #NeverTrumper.

    [MORE]

    A123’s views are comparable to Trump’s at places (e.g. economic nationalism), but Trump is Godless and politically expedient, unlike say, A123’s hatred for political Islam & China, or his view of collaboration between geopolitical powers of the same race/religion.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yellowface Anon

    The fact the Iffen is a #NeverTrump acolyte is quite obvious and irrefutable.

    • He repeatedly lies about Trump, blaming him for things beyond his control.
    • He keeps trying to sabotage high-IQ communications methods with broad gender appeal. Most notably #LetsGoBrandon as a technique.

    What is puzzling -- As an obvious #Bidenista, why does Iffen attempt to deny his support for the current occupied White House?
    ____

    I never claimed to be 100% agreement with Trump about everything. I would have made some different choices.

    The critical part is recognizing that MAGA never had the House or Senate during Trump's 1st Term. That greatly limited what he was able to do. People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @iffen

  71. @Hyperborean
    @AP


    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.
     

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)


    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.
     
    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with 'mostly slaughtering the natives', it feels like a moot point.

    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.
     
    Let us just take the Pope's word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix was modelled on one owned by Luís Espinal, a Jesuit priest, journalist and leftwing activist who was murdered by paramilitaries in 1980, when Bolivia was under a dictatorship.

    On Wednesday night, Francis halted his popemobile from the airport to pray at the site where Espinal’s body was found.

    “Dear sisters and brothers. I stopped here to greet you and above all to remember. To remember a brother, our brother, a victim of interests who did not want him to fight for the freedom of Bolivia,” the pope said on the scheduled stop.

    He also reportedly received a medal, bearing a hammer and sickle, from Morales that was issued in memory of Espinal’s death.

    Lombardi said he personally wasn’t offended by Morales’ gift. “You can dispute the significance and use of the symbol now, but the origin is from Espinal and the sense of it was about an open dialogue, not about a specific ideology,” Lombardi said.

    The Argentinian pope has been criticised in some quarters for not doing more to protect leftwing priests during the military dictatorship in his homeland. But since becoming pope in 2013, he has taken steps to reconcile the Vatican with progressive adherents of Liberation Theology, who argue that the Church should agitate for social and political change.

    In Bolivia, Morales – a former coca farmer from an indigenous community – previously upset many in the local clergy by declaring the country secular in a new constitution. However, he has embraced the pope and praised him for supporting poor and marginalised groups.

    Francis has used this trip to Latin America emphasize the problems faced by indigenous communities and to warn against “all totalitarian, ideological or sectarian schemes”.

    On Thursday he urged the downtrodden to change the world economic order, denouncing a “new colonialism” by agencies that impose austerity programmes and calling for the poor to have the “sacred rights” of labor, lodging and land.

    In one of the longest, most passionate and sweeping speeches of his pontificate, the Argentine-born pope also asked forgiveness for the sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church in its treatment of native Americans during what he called the “so-called conquest of America”.

    Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money “the dung of the devil,” and said poor countries should not be reduced to being providers of raw material and cheap labour for developed countries.

    Repeating some of the themes of his landmark encyclical “Laudato Si” on the environment last month, Francis said time was running out to save the planet from perhaps irreversible harm to the ecosystem.

    “Let us not be afraid to say it: we want change, real change, structural change,” the pope said, decrying a system that “has imposed the mentality of profit at any price, with no concern for social exclusion or the destruction of nature.“

    “This system is by now intolerable: farm workers find it intolerable, laborers find it intolerable, communities find it intolerable, peoples find it intolerable The Earth itself – our sister, Mother Earth, as Saint Francis would say – also finds it intolerable,” he said in an hour-long speech that was interrupted by applause and cheering dozens of times.
     

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/bolivia-communist-crucifix-gift-pope-francis?espv=1

    Granted Bolivian paganism is more like Gaia than Mexican Satanism, but in both cases it is a native version of wokeism that has nothing do with Protestant interference.


    The unique belief system enjoyed renewed attention and celebration during Morales’ nearly 14-year-presidency, a time when he routinely performed Pachamama acts at official government ceremonies. An animated film called Pachamama debuted last year on Netflix, telling the story of 10-year-old Andean boy during the time of the Spanish conquest of Bolivia.

    The fusion of Roman Catholic and indigenous traditions goes on display each year in the early part of summer during a celebration called the feast of the Great Power in La Paz. Dancers wearing elaborate and colorful costumes fill the streets representing Andean folklore in celebration of a 17th century painting of Jesus Christ with native features .

    The patron saint to Bolivia, the Virgen of Copacabana, was discovered and sculpted by an indigenous after the Spanish arrive. Because of that, to some it’s a visual representation of the Pachamama even though it’s a Catholic saint.

    The blend of Christian and ancestral beliefs started by indigenous Bolivians who camouflaged their beliefs under Catholic ones, anthropologists say, but it has become more commonplace in recent history to publicly embrace both, especially during Morales’ presidency. Called religious syncretism, it is recognized by Bolivia’s constitution under the term “Andean cosmovision,” and it is widely practiced by many in the mostly indigenous South American country.

    Morales upset some Catholics because he rewrote the constitution in 2009, stripping special recognition given to the Roman Catholic church. But local Bolivian Catholic priests don’t seem to harbor any ill-will, instead reflecting the symbiotic relationship that exists at the pew level in Bolivia.

    “Our mission today is to avoid confrontation and understand the Aymara/Inca culture,” said Friar Abelino Yeguaori, from inside the Basilica of Our Lady of Copacabana on the shores of Lake Titicaca. “In the church in Bolivia there is a consensus not to destroy, but to try and internalize the people’s faith.”
     

    https://apnews.com/article/south-america-lifestyle-lake-titicaca-bolivia-latin-america-32b018bd433d728ba1d29a7bebc6289f

    Replies: @AP, @Yellowface Anon

    You can pretty much see how AP is prizing the general Catholic culture over native traditions, which would be easy if the natives were at an less-developed, inferior position to the colonizers, and AP’s esthetic values are more aligned with Catholic or generally Romano-Germanic esthetics. But harder when Jesuits ended up in say, Ming China. At least in Macau, cathedrals co-existed with Ming Chinese housing and bureaucratic structures at the border.

    It might be ironic to see instead of Catholic Iberian culture replacing the Amerindian consciousness in the New World, Amerindian cultural forms are chewing Catholicism from inside because of some deliberate esthetic decisions. It’s almost karmic.

  72. @Thulean Friend
    @AP


    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.
     
    Absolutely, but the trend is undeniable. I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised. These things happen blazingly fast and it's already under way.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles – 6% lower than among older Poles.
     
    This is my argument. Public identification in Eastern Europe with religion typically has more to do with ethnicity and national belonging than tracking closely to actual religious observance and participation. Poland is no different in this regard.

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.
     
    But widespread. Look at what people do, not what their law says.

    children being born out of wedlock
     
    Fair point, but rising very quickly. Let's linger on your graph a little bit.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321608/births+outside+marriage.png

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?


    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.
     
    In terms of pre-marital sex, abortion (illegal ones counted) and church attendence for the youth, the differences between East and West are vastly overblown. In terms of attitudes on race and immigration, I'd say most of Eastern Europe is where the USA was in the early 1990s. Basically moderately liberal with small-c conservative leanings.

    I think there will be full social convergence within the next 20-30 years at the latest between the EU's western and eastern wings.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @AP, @sher singh

    I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised

    Likely, often history repeats itself but sometimes it rhymes, and other times it does something surprising (World War II ended in a radically different way from the first war).

    The West is somewhat discredited now, in comparison to how it was when it became Woke. Poles like Scandinavians (woke) but dislike woke Germans. They also admire Italians, who are the least woke of the Western European peoples. And of trends trends seem to be reversing in France. So while it seems clear that Poland is shifting to the left, it is not yet clear how far it will go.

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?

    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why. In Italy the most popular party among those under 30 is the neo-fascist one Brothers of Italy. They and their allies are leading in the general election poll:

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/far-right-parties-lead-italian-polls/

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AP


    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why.
     
    Well, there's always multiple factors at play but the most important part of the explanation to this mystery is not very difficult to unravel. Just like 60 years of communism inoculated some Europeans against leftist fantasies, 40 years of clerical-nationalism inoculated others against right-wing extremism and to a large extent against religion itself.

    At the end of Franco's dictatorship and return to democracy being right-wing was very uncool, especially among younger people. In Italy, by contrast, being neo-fascist was transgressive and thus attractive for the young.

    What is surprising is how long these tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans may well never catch-up in wokeness to Westerners. In fact, that is what I perceive with my Polish son and his friends, all in their twenties. They are quite tolerant in sexual matters, including towards the LGB stuff, but otherwise they are very right-wing, particularly in racial and immigration matters. Religion is at best performative, I don't know that any of them is an observant Catholic.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Agathoklis

  73. @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Those poor German industrialists have been forewarned or straightout colluded and bought needed quantities of gas in advance at low prices in the summer and pumped it to their own storages, so it's nothing but crocodile tears regarding their cruel fate. Also there is no better cure from excess gazpromophilia than absurd gas prices as it makes instalation of all other power sources way more profitable too, e.g. Finland new nuclear station will be profitable despite neverending delays ;)

    Replies: @Aedib

    The main reason of these absurd gas prices is the shutdown of nuclear power stations.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Aedib

    It is kinda self correcting problem on longer term though, e.g. both France and Finland are opening new plants next year which will be profitable now even after long delays and overbudgeting, also are planing building new (FR 6, FI 1), so overall just these 9 new modern reactors will fully compensate closed 8 German ones on EU scale.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Aedib

  74. @Mike_from_Russia
    What is being discussed at a similar forum in Russia
    "..Gas in Europe is confidently trading for more than 1500.."
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/image%20%2810%29_1.png

    Replies: @Aedib

    They are the echoes of Annalena Baerbock’s words.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_Russia
    @Aedib

    On
    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1043888
    "Has someone decided that 1500 is the limit? You're wrong. Asia has accepted the challenge"

    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u35972/2021/JKM-15dec.jpg

    Today, they have gained more than 20% during the trading session.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia

  75. @Aedib
    @sudden death

    The main reason of these absurd gas prices is the shutdown of nuclear power stations.

    Replies: @sudden death

    It is kinda self correcting problem on longer term though, e.g. both France and Finland are opening new plants next year which will be profitable now even after long delays and overbudgeting, also are planing building new (FR 6, FI 1), so overall just these 9 new modern reactors will fully compensate closed 8 German ones on EU scale.

    • Agree: AP, Aedib
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    Are those nuclear plants for national or EU-wide production?

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    , @Aedib
    @sudden death


    1- A post-oil era is a myth. It is very doubtful that an alternative as versatile and practicable
    as oil,could totally replace oil in the next 100 years.
    2- There could never be a peak oil demand either throughout the 21st century and probably
    far beyond. How could the world feed a growing population projected to rise from 7.9
    billion today to 9.7 billion by 2050 and a global economy projected to grow in size from
    $91 trillion in 2021 to $245 trillion also by 2050 without oil?
    3- A total global energy transition is an illusion. Even a partial one will never succeed without
    huge contributions from natural gas and nuclear energy.
    4- The notion of net-zero emissions is a myth. It will never be achieved in 2050 or 2100 or
    ever.
    5- Oil and gas and nuclear will continue to be the core business of the global oil industry well into the
    future.
     

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  76. @sudden death
    @Aedib

    It is kinda self correcting problem on longer term though, e.g. both France and Finland are opening new plants next year which will be profitable now even after long delays and overbudgeting, also are planing building new (FR 6, FI 1), so overall just these 9 new modern reactors will fully compensate closed 8 German ones on EU scale.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Aedib

    Are those nuclear plants for national or EU-wide production?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Yellowface Anon

    Suitable for both uses as Germany has energy links with France, Finland has such links with Sweden and Estonia, then the circle goes further - Estonia links with Latvia, Latvia with Lithuania and Lithuania back to Sweden through Baltic sea electricity link and Germany also has direct link to Scandinavian electricity market since last year, so it is all more or less, but interconnected now.

    , @A123
    @Yellowface Anon


    Are those nuclear plants for national or EU-wide production?
     
    They are "market" plants so selling to Germany should not be a regulatory problem.

    The web of powerlines is so complex, it is hard to tell if sufficient transfer capacity exists. It looks like it, but one would need an expert to be sure.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    https://www.maproomblog.com/2018/05/european-electrical-grid/

     
    https://www.maproomblog.com/xq/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/entsoe-e-1024x512.jpg
  77. @Yellowface Anon
    @iffen

    Anything that falls outside his political ideology is a #NeverTrumper.

    A123's views are comparable to Trump's at places (e.g. economic nationalism), but Trump is Godless and politically expedient, unlike say, A123's hatred for political Islam & China, or his view of collaboration between geopolitical powers of the same race/religion.

    Replies: @A123

    The fact the Iffen is a #NeverTrump acolyte is quite obvious and irrefutable.

    • He repeatedly lies about Trump, blaming him for things beyond his control.
    • He keeps trying to sabotage high-IQ communications methods with broad gender appeal. Most notably #LetsGoBrandon as a technique.

    What is puzzling — As an obvious #Bidenista, why does Iffen attempt to deny his support for the current occupied White House?
    ____

    I never claimed to be 100% agreement with Trump about everything. I would have made some different choices.

    The critical part is recognizing that MAGA never had the House or Senate during Trump’s 1st Term. That greatly limited what he was able to do. People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @iffen
    @A123

    People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.

    Replies: @A123, @Max Demian

  78. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Yet they managed to alienate the actual Europeans living there.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Comuneros_(Paraguay)
     

    Thank you for proving my point. From your link:

    "Antequera also accused the Jesuits of various crimes, demanded that the mission Indians under their care be enslaved and distributed to the citizens of Paraguay"

    You had mistakenly claimed tat the Jesuits were involved in de-Europianization of Christianity. I had shown that it was the exact opposite. The European settlers in Paraguay did not want the Indians to become Europeanized: they wanted them to be dumb, savage slaves. They were acting like genocidal Calvinist filth. Jesuits taught the Indians how to become skillful builders of Baroque churches, practitioners and composers of European music, etc.


    Considering that the arrival of the very religious Conquistadors was also initiated with ‘mostly slaughtering the natives’, it feels like a moot point.
     
    Nonsense. Most died from disease. These lands are still full of Mestizos, as would be expected since the natives weren't genocided. Natives down there were soon attending European-style universities, putting on European concerts, etc. while the ones subjected to the Calvinists were just getting ethnically cleansed.

    Let us just take the Pope’s word for it, or he also a secret Protestant agent?

    But it seems unlikely that the Pope would not have been completely unaware of the gift’s meaning. The [hammer and sickle] crucifix
     

    I'm not an expert on liberation theology. Are they profaning the Crucifix - or subverting Communism? Are they trying to assimilate Marxism into Christianity (thereby neutralizing it), as Christians had assimilated pagan thought? It's a dangerous game but very different from the wholesale rejection of Christianity under the woke.

    Replies: @Hyperborean

    You had mistakenly claimed tat the Jesuits were involved in de-Europianization of Christianity. I had shown that it was the exact opposite. The European settlers in Paraguay did not want the Indians to become Europeanized: they wanted them to be dumb, savage slaves. They were acting like genocidal Calvinist filth. Jesuits taught the Indians how to become skillful builders of Baroque churches, practitioners and composers of European music, etc.

    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish. From an Amerindian perspective the Jesuits can certainly be seen as helpful, but the Jesuits wished for their own private clerical domain and not to integrate them into the Empire.

    Rancor increased as the Jesuits persuaded the Spanish king to exclude all Europeans, Africans and mestizos (mixed-race people) from entering the pueblos or making contact with the Guaraní. The Jesuits also forbade the use of European languages in their territory. Knowledge of Guaraní grammar, vocabulary and the spoken language was a great advantage for the Jesuits in their efforts to catechize and control the populace.

    https://www.historynet.com/fighting-fathers-of-the-guarani-war.htm

    A map of Paraguay based on the results for first language in the 2002 census [571 × 749]. from MapPorn

    Nonsense. Most died from disease. These lands are still full of Mestizos, as would be expected since the natives weren’t genocided.

    More a matter of pre-invasion population density and colonial and post-independence settlement patterns than the scale of massacres.

    Were Brazilian and Argentinian settlers also ‘filthy Calvinists’, unlike their neighbours to the west?

    I’m not an expert on liberation theology. Are they profaning the Crucifix – or subverting Communism? Are they trying to assimilate Marxism into Christianity (thereby neutralizing it), as Christians had assimilated pagan thought?

    Did you even read down to Pope Francis’ speech or the part about Bolivia? Their intentions are very clear.

    It’s a dangerous game but very different from the wholesale rejection of Christianity under the woke.

    Is wokism

    A) A uniquely Protestant heresy

    Or

    B) A wholesale rejection of Christianity?

    Either wokism is a Protestant heresy, in which case it can’t be unique to Protestants because we see the exact same movements in Catholicism, or it has little to do with Christianity and your condemnation of Protestantism on this point is ill placed.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Hyperborean


    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish
     
    They did not want to obliterate native culture as such, but to make it civilised and European. So the Indians retained their own language while leaving behind savage customs and religion and building Baroque churches, composing Baroque music using European instruments that they made , etc.

    I also suspect that Spanish frontier culture of those times was rather rough and full of sin, so a linguistic barrier would shield the Natives from that.

    New iOS update makes it difficult to cut and paste your original comment here. Addressing your comment about population density: on the chart you posted one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.

    Canadian Metis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tis

    Russian-Native creoles in Alaska (where many Natives are Orthodox Christians):

    https://depts.washington.edu/cspn/creole-policy-and-practice-in-russian-america-iakov-egorovich-netsvetov/

    :::::::;;;:

    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

    Replies: @songbird, @Hyperborean

  79. @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    Are those nuclear plants for national or EU-wide production?

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    Suitable for both uses as Germany has energy links with France, Finland has such links with Sweden and Estonia, then the circle goes further – Estonia links with Latvia, Latvia with Lithuania and Lithuania back to Sweden through Baltic sea electricity link and Germany also has direct link to Scandinavian electricity market since last year, so it is all more or less, but interconnected now.

  80. @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    Are those nuclear plants for national or EU-wide production?

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    Are those nuclear plants for national or EU-wide production?

    They are “market” plants so selling to Germany should not be a regulatory problem.

    The web of powerlines is so complex, it is hard to tell if sufficient transfer capacity exists. It looks like it, but one would need an expert to be sure.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    https://www.maproomblog.com/2018/05/european-electrical-grid/

     

  81. @Hyperborean
    @AP


    You had mistakenly claimed tat the Jesuits were involved in de-Europianization of Christianity. I had shown that it was the exact opposite. The European settlers in Paraguay did not want the Indians to become Europeanized: they wanted them to be dumb, savage slaves. They were acting like genocidal Calvinist filth. Jesuits taught the Indians how to become skillful builders of Baroque churches, practitioners and composers of European music, etc.
     
    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish. From an Amerindian perspective the Jesuits can certainly be seen as helpful, but the Jesuits wished for their own private clerical domain and not to integrate them into the Empire.

    Rancor increased as the Jesuits persuaded the Spanish king to exclude all Europeans, Africans and mestizos (mixed-race people) from entering the pueblos or making contact with the Guaraní. The Jesuits also forbade the use of European languages in their territory. Knowledge of Guaraní grammar, vocabulary and the spoken language was a great advantage for the Jesuits in their efforts to catechize and control the populace.
     
    https://www.historynet.com/fighting-fathers-of-the-guarani-war.htm

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4l9fbe/a_map_of_paraguay_based_on_the_results_for_first/


    Nonsense. Most died from disease. These lands are still full of Mestizos, as would be expected since the natives weren’t genocided.
     
    More a matter of pre-invasion population density and colonial and post-independence settlement patterns than the scale of massacres.

    Were Brazilian and Argentinian settlers also 'filthy Calvinists', unlike their neighbours to the west?

    https://journals.openedition.org/belgeo/docannexe/image/11594/img-7-small580.jpg


    I’m not an expert on liberation theology. Are they profaning the Crucifix – or subverting Communism? Are they trying to assimilate Marxism into Christianity (thereby neutralizing it), as Christians had assimilated pagan thought?

     

    Did you even read down to Pope Francis' speech or the part about Bolivia? Their intentions are very clear.

    It’s a dangerous game but very different from the wholesale rejection of Christianity under the woke.
     
    Is wokism

    A) A uniquely Protestant heresy

    Or

    B) A wholesale rejection of Christianity?

    Either wokism is a Protestant heresy, in which case it can't be unique to Protestants because we see the exact same movements in Catholicism, or it has little to do with Christianity and your condemnation of Protestantism on this point is ill placed.

    Replies: @AP

    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish

    They did not want to obliterate native culture as such, but to make it civilised and European. So the Indians retained their own language while leaving behind savage customs and religion and building Baroque churches, composing Baroque music using European instruments that they made , etc.

    I also suspect that Spanish frontier culture of those times was rather rough and full of sin, so a linguistic barrier would shield the Natives from that.

    New iOS update makes it difficult to cut and paste your original comment here. Addressing your comment about population density: on the chart you posted one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.

    Canadian Metis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tis

    Russian-Native creoles in Alaska (where many Natives are Orthodox Christians):

    https://depts.washington.edu/cspn/creole-policy-and-practice-in-russian-america-iakov-egorovich-netsvetov/

    :::::::;;;:

    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.
     
    Look at the annual temperature range of Buenos Aires, compare to New England. The Inca Empire included parts of Argentine. They had the potato, which was the most impressive New World crop.

    Again, Canada and Alaska are in a different climatic zone, harsher and more remote. Difficult to penetrate, which led to more mixing.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Hyperborean
    @AP


    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

     

    Right, if what you got out of that was 'A Trumpian could probably agree with them', I think I will just leave you to enjoy the hammer-and-sickle crucifixes and Pachamama.

    Replies: @AP

  82. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish
     
    They did not want to obliterate native culture as such, but to make it civilised and European. So the Indians retained their own language while leaving behind savage customs and religion and building Baroque churches, composing Baroque music using European instruments that they made , etc.

    I also suspect that Spanish frontier culture of those times was rather rough and full of sin, so a linguistic barrier would shield the Natives from that.

    New iOS update makes it difficult to cut and paste your original comment here. Addressing your comment about population density: on the chart you posted one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.

    Canadian Metis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tis

    Russian-Native creoles in Alaska (where many Natives are Orthodox Christians):

    https://depts.washington.edu/cspn/creole-policy-and-practice-in-russian-america-iakov-egorovich-netsvetov/

    :::::::;;;:

    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

    Replies: @songbird, @Hyperborean

    one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.

    Look at the annual temperature range of Buenos Aires, compare to New England. The Inca Empire included parts of Argentine. They had the potato, which was the most impressive New World crop.

    Again, Canada and Alaska are in a different climatic zone, harsher and more remote. Difficult to penetrate, which led to more mixing.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird

    Russians and French both produced mixed European-Native Creole classes in Alaska and Canada; Anglos have not.

    Replies: @songbird

  83. sher singh says:
    @Thulean Friend
    @AP


    55% of Poles over 40 attend church every week. 26% of Poles under 40 attend church every week. 1 in 4 going to church every week is still a lot compared to other countries. Young Poles go to church weekly at a rate that is 4 times greater than the general Swedish population.
     
    Absolutely, but the trend is undeniable. I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised. These things happen blazingly fast and it's already under way.

    Also, self-identification as Christians has declined very slightly among young Poles – 6% lower than among older Poles.
     
    This is my argument. Public identification in Eastern Europe with religion typically has more to do with ethnicity and national belonging than tracking closely to actual religious observance and participation. Poland is no different in this regard.

    Abortion is basically illegal in Poland.
     
    But widespread. Look at what people do, not what their law says.

    children being born out of wedlock
     
    Fair point, but rising very quickly. Let's linger on your graph a little bit.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/10321608/births+outside+marriage.png

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?


    The statistics show that Eastern European countries, particularly Poland, are a lot more socially conservative (though the trend is bad) than are western ones so it is not simply wishful thinking.
     
    In terms of pre-marital sex, abortion (illegal ones counted) and church attendence for the youth, the differences between East and West are vastly overblown. In terms of attitudes on race and immigration, I'd say most of Eastern Europe is where the USA was in the early 1990s. Basically moderately liberal with small-c conservative leanings.

    I think there will be full social convergence within the next 20-30 years at the latest between the EU's western and eastern wings.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @AP, @sher singh

    late 90s* https://www.unz.com/akarlin/race-realism-in-europe/

    This is my point, these niggas argue the same topics year after year seemingly oblivious to real world, where cuckservative is just an early 2000s islamophobic lib.

    How nice of you to not only rape their kids, but teach them how to as well, Mr Baroque Spaniard.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @AP
    @sher singh

    It appears that the former Portuguese-ruled parts of India, with substantial Christian (largely Catholic) minorities, are the most highly developed and richest in the country:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_Human_Development_Index

    This suggests that they were better overlords than the Muslims and the British.

    Replies: @German_reader, @sher singh

  84. Speaking of Argentina’s Whiteness:

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    What would it have looked like with CBDC and with crypto?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @Thulean Friend
    @Yellowface Anon

    Argentina's fall from grace is rather straightforward: They had a tiny population (comparatively speaking) living in a gigantic country. Argentina is also blessed with fantastic possibilities for agricultural production.

    They never had any serious industries. They got rich by exporting tons of agricultural stuff. A modern comparison would be Saudi Arabia in the 1970s. A big country with a (then) tiny population but huge amounts of oil. Before WWII, agriculture basically acted as oil for Argentinians.

    Around the mid-1930s, mechanisation really started to pick up. After the war, it boomed, in no small part because America became hugely mechanised, together with rapidly increasing productivity of midwestern farmers. This kept a lid food prices on a secular basis. Argentina, having no other industry to stand on, failed to find its footing ever since.

  85. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    And yet, such an aversion to teaching them Spanish
     
    They did not want to obliterate native culture as such, but to make it civilised and European. So the Indians retained their own language while leaving behind savage customs and religion and building Baroque churches, composing Baroque music using European instruments that they made , etc.

    I also suspect that Spanish frontier culture of those times was rather rough and full of sin, so a linguistic barrier would shield the Natives from that.

    New iOS update makes it difficult to cut and paste your original comment here. Addressing your comment about population density: on the chart you posted one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.

    Canadian Metis:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tis

    Russian-Native creoles in Alaska (where many Natives are Orthodox Christians):

    https://depts.washington.edu/cspn/creole-policy-and-practice-in-russian-america-iakov-egorovich-netsvetov/

    :::::::;;;:

    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

    Replies: @songbird, @Hyperborean

    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

    Right, if what you got out of that was ‘A Trumpian could probably agree with them’, I think I will just leave you to enjoy the hammer-and-sickle crucifixes and Pachamama.

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @AP
    @Hyperborean

    To summarise: you were completely wrong in your claims about Jesuits in South America, and your attempt to deflect from the reality of the Protestant nature of wokism through whataboutism involving liberation theology was flawed. Trumpists and other nationalist populists wouldn’t subvert a hammer and sickle by turning it into a cross but they do condemn predatory elites and support local communities versus neoliberalism.

    Replies: @A123

  86. @Yellowface Anon
    Speaking of Argentina's Whiteness:

    https://voxeu.org/sites/default/files/image/FromMay2014/campos%20fig1%2016%20dec.png

    Replies: @songbird, @Thulean Friend

    What would it have looked like with CBDC and with crypto?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Do you know what the graph represents? Argentina's per capita GDP as a % of Western European & Anglo countries' levels.

    I think the Argentinean economy is already heavily dollarized, but it's still super sluggish because of decades of sovereign debt & hyperinflation. So in a world of an Argentinean digital peso & private cryptos, it will be more of the same. Except it's much harder or maybe outright impossible to exchange digital pesos for cryptos, than fiat pesos for Yankee-imperialist-standard dollars.

    Replies: @songbird

  87. @songbird
    @AP


    one can clearly see many more Mestizos and Indians in sparsely-populated Argentina than in non-Mexican North America. Similarly, Russian Alaska (Orthodox) and French Canada (Catholic) involved much less systematic killing of Natives and therefore produced more mixed race individuals than did the Calvinists.
     
    Look at the annual temperature range of Buenos Aires, compare to New England. The Inca Empire included parts of Argentine. They had the potato, which was the most impressive New World crop.

    Again, Canada and Alaska are in a different climatic zone, harsher and more remote. Difficult to penetrate, which led to more mixing.

    Replies: @AP

    Russians and French both produced mixed European-Native Creole classes in Alaska and Canada; Anglos have not.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP

    Alaska was so remote to Russia that the Russians living in Alaska left, when the US bought it, leaving their mestizo descendants there, alone.

    Average Quebecois has like 1-2% admixture, many less. (You can actually find a lot of Anglo Americans like that). A lot of their apparent brownness is just the not uncommon swarthiness of the French.

    Overall less admixture than the Protestant Boers. They have a really large mestizo pop called the Cape Coloureds. Over five million. The predominant population group of the Western Cape.

    Replies: @AP

  88. @Hyperborean
    @AP


    The Pope’s platitudes were not necessarily pro-Communist. A Trumpian could probably agree with them.

    :::::::::

    Wokism is both a uniquely Protestant heresy and a rejection of Christianity. As such, it arose in the Protestant world with specific Protestant features but aggressively seeks converts among Catholics (just as we see unwokened Protestants and Mormons doing missionary work in Catholic places like Brazil or in Orthodox Russia).

     

    Right, if what you got out of that was 'A Trumpian could probably agree with them', I think I will just leave you to enjoy the hammer-and-sickle crucifixes and Pachamama.

    Replies: @AP

    To summarise: you were completely wrong in your claims about Jesuits in South America, and your attempt to deflect from the reality of the Protestant nature of wokism through whataboutism involving liberation theology was flawed. Trumpists and other nationalist populists wouldn’t subvert a hammer and sickle by turning it into a cross but they do condemn predatory elites and support local communities versus neoliberalism.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AP

    There is an internal inconsistency with your position too.

    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokeness, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity. Hint: How Woke is Pope Francis? It is pretty clear that SJW Wokeness is unique to the Catholic hierarchy, even though it is opposed Catholic congregations.
    ____

    You can attempt to argue that Protestantism in Europe and America are fundamentally different. However, all of your positions related to U.S. Christianity are weak or failed.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AP

  89. @AP
    @Thulean Friend


    I think Poland is following the same path as Ireland. 30 years ago many spoke of Irish religious tendencies in similar vein, then they rapidly secularised
     
    Likely, often history repeats itself but sometimes it rhymes, and other times it does something surprising (World War II ended in a radically different way from the first war).

    The West is somewhat discredited now, in comparison to how it was when it became Woke. Poles like Scandinavians (woke) but dislike woke Germans. They also admire Italians, who are the least woke of the Western European peoples. And of trends trends seem to be reversing in France. So while it seems clear that Poland is shifting to the left, it is not yet clear how far it will go.

    As I noted in previous comments, notice the huge gap between Iberia and Greece+Italy. What accounts for this? Anyone hazards a guess?
     
    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why. In Italy the most popular party among those under 30 is the neo-fascist one Brothers of Italy. They and their allies are leading in the general election poll:

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/far-right-parties-lead-italian-polls/

    Replies: @Mikel

    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why.

    Well, there’s always multiple factors at play but the most important part of the explanation to this mystery is not very difficult to unravel. Just like 60 years of communism inoculated some Europeans against leftist fantasies, 40 years of clerical-nationalism inoculated others against right-wing extremism and to a large extent against religion itself.

    At the end of Franco’s dictatorship and return to democracy being right-wing was very uncool, especially among younger people. In Italy, by contrast, being neo-fascist was transgressive and thus attractive for the young.

    What is surprising is how long these tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans may well never catch-up in wokeness to Westerners. In fact, that is what I perceive with my Polish son and his friends, all in their twenties. They are quite tolerant in sexual matters, including towards the LGB stuff, but otherwise they are very right-wing, particularly in racial and immigration matters. Religion is at best performative, I don’t know that any of them is an observant Catholic.

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon, AP, Coconuts
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    Franco’s dictatorship
     
    I was just going to write this to AP.

    20th century Spain had for many years under a dictatorship, which had cynically exploited a rhetoric of "religion, conservatism" (while in some times of "moralist" Franco, a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes).

    After a pigeon in a Skinner box has been brutally electrocuted enough times, it will probably not "graduate" Skinner box, with positive associations to anything (even if only meaningless sounds) that had correlated to these electrocutions it had experienced in the Skinner box.


    tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans
     
    But in Russia and many postsoviet countries, there is not a "negative association" against previous politics, like in Spain after Franco. The worst electrocutions have been after the previous politics, rather than during them.

    That's the sense it was better before in Soviet times. It's from the 1970s, has been if not always becoming worse life, the national trajectories have been below most anyone's expectations for how life would be. Postsoviet realities, are a feeling of being on the trashcan of history.

    Whereas in Spain it was from the post-Franco, to 2008, a situation of improvement of living standards, access to EU, infrastructure investment, increasing international prestige. Spain's GDP was higher than the Russian Federation from 1990-2008, despite around multiple of 3,3 less people. Even just from the lines on the graph, you can infer how post-Franco stage had likely been experienced as positive by most of the population until 2008.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @Agathoklis
    @Mikel

    I have also attributed the long Franco dictatorship as the cause of Spain's mad rush to hyper-liberalism compared to Italy. But how does that explain Greece? Greece also had long periods of so-called conservative 'reactionary' rule, even a dictatorship for seven years, but it remains more socially conservative than Spain. So the following schema: conservative, reactionary leads to hyper-liberalism
    and liberalism leads to conservative does not really hold.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Triteleia Laxa

  90. @sudden death
    @Aedib

    It is kinda self correcting problem on longer term though, e.g. both France and Finland are opening new plants next year which will be profitable now even after long delays and overbudgeting, also are planing building new (FR 6, FI 1), so overall just these 9 new modern reactors will fully compensate closed 8 German ones on EU scale.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Aedib

    1- A post-oil era is a myth. It is very doubtful that an alternative as versatile and practicable
    as oil,could totally replace oil in the next 100 years.
    2- There could never be a peak oil demand either throughout the 21st century and probably
    far beyond. How could the world feed a growing population projected to rise from 7.9
    billion today to 9.7 billion by 2050 and a global economy projected to grow in size from
    \$91 trillion in 2021 to \$245 trillion also by 2050 without oil?
    3- A total global energy transition is an illusion. Even a partial one will never succeed without
    huge contributions from natural gas and nuclear energy.
    4- The notion of net-zero emissions is a myth. It will never be achieved in 2050 or 2100 or
    ever.
    5- Oil and gas and nuclear will continue to be the core business of the global oil industry well into the
    future.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Aedib

    Peak Oil or Peak Energy in the 21th century is possible... by massive depopulation and/or massive destruction of living standards. Have WWIII and then prevent the rebuilding from the irradiated rubble, and we'll be there.

  91. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.
     
    Jesuit efforts in Latin America certainly wasn't de-Europeanisation!

    The Jesuits brilliantly taught the natives of South America to build beautiful baroque churches in the jungles and savannahs:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Ruinas-saomiguel13.jpg

    https://static.dw.com/image/19510452_303.jpg

    They also taught the previously savage natives to play beautiful baroque music:

    https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/paraguay604/music.html

    "These missions, known as reducciones, became home and refuge to thousands of Paraguay's Guarani Indians. The missionaries not only provided shelter but also taught the Guarani people to play European music and make their own instruments, including the cello, harp and violin. Each mission had a church, an orchestra, several artisans' shops, and schools of music and painting."

    The Natives were even composing such music!

    An example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeYBdGN7OQ

    This was essentially the opposite of wokeness, which is now trying to nullify Western civilization, even to the point of introducing pre-Christian demon-"gods" to Mexican-American children.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/sep/3/parents-sue-california-over-mandated-chants-aztec-/

    "A group of parents in California sued the State Board of Education Friday over a proposed new “Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum” (ESMC) that would have public school students chanting affirmations to Aztec gods and invoking an ancient Nigerian Yoruba religious prayer."

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.


    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.
     
    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Hyperborean, @Aedib, @Yevardian

    Is this San Ignacio (Misiones in Argentina)? There is a sizable Ukrainian collectivity in this tiny northern Argentinean province.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Aedib

    One is a mission is right across the border in Brazil:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_of_S%C3%A3o_Miguel_das_Miss%C3%B5es

    The evil Portuguese slave-raiders whom the Jesuits protected were called Banderites (or something close to it).

    Another picture was from Argentina.

    Replies: @Aedib

  92. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    What would it have looked like with CBDC and with crypto?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Do you know what the graph represents? Argentina’s per capita GDP as a % of Western European & Anglo countries’ levels.

    I think the Argentinean economy is already heavily dollarized, but it’s still super sluggish because of decades of sovereign debt & hyperinflation. So in a world of an Argentinean digital peso & private cryptos, it will be more of the same. Except it’s much harder or maybe outright impossible to exchange digital pesos for cryptos, than fiat pesos for Yankee-imperialist-standard dollars.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    Do you know what the graph represents? Argentina’s per capita GDP as a % of Western European & Anglo countries’ levels.
     
    That's what I gathered. Easy to see in the peace dividend.

    So in a world of an Argentinean digital peso & private cryptos, it will be more of the same.
     
    Not so sure about this.

    Don't know a lot about CBDCs, but I presume greater convertibility, so easier to change for competing currencies, with less inflation. Crypto also would have been a hedge against inflation.

    If nothing else, I suspect that there would at least be a much bigger black market economy, with many people working secretly for other currencies. Since crypto is easier to obtain than physical dollars. Not a cure all, but the standard of living would probably be higher.

    I think the performance of some Latin American countries could be much increased with the right technology to fight corruption. Probably, also true of Africa, to a degree, though with a much harsher regime needed there. (Probably social credits, segregation, and crowd AI.)

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  93. @AP
    @Hyperborean

    To summarise: you were completely wrong in your claims about Jesuits in South America, and your attempt to deflect from the reality of the Protestant nature of wokism through whataboutism involving liberation theology was flawed. Trumpists and other nationalist populists wouldn’t subvert a hammer and sickle by turning it into a cross but they do condemn predatory elites and support local communities versus neoliberalism.

    Replies: @A123

    There is an internal inconsistency with your position too.

    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokeness, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity. Hint: How Woke is Pope Francis? It is pretty clear that SJW Wokeness is unique to the Catholic hierarchy, even though it is opposed Catholic congregations.
    ____

    You can attempt to argue that Protestantism in Europe and America are fundamentally different. However, all of your positions related to U.S. Christianity are weak or failed.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AP
    @A123


    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.
     
    As I posted, wokism stems from Protestantism and shares many key features with it, described by the Protestant minister whose words I provided.

    This does not mean that practicing Protestants would necessarily support Wokism, just as Catholics would not necessarily support some heretic pseudo-Catholic. There is nothing contradictory about conservative Protestants being anti-woke, and wokeness being a twisted and heretical offshoot of Protestantism.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokenessw, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity
     
    That would be mainline Protestantism with its practicing gay bishops and such. Congregational churches frequently fly BLM and trans flags, have lesbian ministers, etc.

    Replies: @A123, @Max Demian

  94. @Aedib
    @sudden death


    1- A post-oil era is a myth. It is very doubtful that an alternative as versatile and practicable
    as oil,could totally replace oil in the next 100 years.
    2- There could never be a peak oil demand either throughout the 21st century and probably
    far beyond. How could the world feed a growing population projected to rise from 7.9
    billion today to 9.7 billion by 2050 and a global economy projected to grow in size from
    $91 trillion in 2021 to $245 trillion also by 2050 without oil?
    3- A total global energy transition is an illusion. Even a partial one will never succeed without
    huge contributions from natural gas and nuclear energy.
    4- The notion of net-zero emissions is a myth. It will never be achieved in 2050 or 2100 or
    ever.
    5- Oil and gas and nuclear will continue to be the core business of the global oil industry well into the
    future.
     

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Peak Oil or Peak Energy in the 21th century is possible… by massive depopulation and/or massive destruction of living standards. Have WWIII and then prevent the rebuilding from the irradiated rubble, and we’ll be there.

    • Agree: Aedib
  95. @sher singh
    @Thulean Friend

    late 90s* https://www.unz.com/akarlin/race-realism-in-europe/

    This is my point, these niggas argue the same topics year after year seemingly oblivious to real world, where cuckservative is just an early 2000s islamophobic lib.

    https://twitter.com/terrorhousemag/status/1155158534620950528?s=20

    How nice of you to not only rape their kids, but teach them how to as well, Mr Baroque Spaniard.


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @AP

    It appears that the former Portuguese-ruled parts of India, with substantial Christian (largely Catholic) minorities, are the most highly developed and richest in the country:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_Human_Development_Index

    This suggests that they were better overlords than the Muslims and the British.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP

    The Portuguese basically just ruled Goa and some tiny districts until the 20th century (whereas Kerala, India's 2nd richest state after Goa - also with below replacement fertility iirc - was part of British India...and iirc has strong Communist influence in its politics). All of southern India is more advanced than the BIMARU states in the north, it's pretty silly to claim this difference is mainly due to Catholicism.

    Replies: @AP

    , @sher singh
    @AP

    They also led a centuries long inquisition using black slaves to force feed Hindus beef||
    Your daughter or grand-daughter will be married to an Indian, so why am I even arguing this with you? :shrug:

    This is the equivalent of Sovoks who argue which specific whatever of the USSR was better.
    The fact you have to hold up 1/3rd of kids being bastards in Poland as a gold trophy, says it all.

    Considering the example of Jesus, shouldn't 100% out of wedlock birth be the Christian standard?
    Given this reality, the negrophilia of all christian peoples makes sense||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  96. @Aedib
    @AP

    Is this San Ignacio (Misiones in Argentina)? There is a sizable Ukrainian collectivity in this tiny northern Argentinean province.

    Replies: @AP

    One is a mission is right across the border in Brazil:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_of_S%C3%A3o_Miguel_das_Miss%C3%B5es

    The evil Portuguese slave-raiders whom the Jesuits protected were called Banderites (or something close to it).

    Another picture was from Argentina.

    • Thanks: Aedib
    • Replies: @Aedib
    @AP

    Both places are quite similar. There Jesuits instructed Guaranis to defend themselves from bandeirantes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ignacio,_Argentina

    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ignacio_(Misiones)

  97. @AP
    @songbird

    Russians and French both produced mixed European-Native Creole classes in Alaska and Canada; Anglos have not.

    Replies: @songbird

    Alaska was so remote to Russia that the Russians living in Alaska left, when the US bought it, leaving their mestizo descendants there, alone.

    Average Quebecois has like 1-2% admixture, many less. (You can actually find a lot of Anglo Americans like that). A lot of their apparent brownness is just the not uncommon swarthiness of the French.

    Overall less admixture than the Protestant Boers. They have a really large mestizo pop called the Cape Coloureds. Over five million. The predominant population group of the Western Cape.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird

    As the link I provided shows, the Russians were supporting these Creoles even during their rule.

    The Quebecois studies are of French people (about 4.7 million of them in Canada), and show about 1% Native descent within this population. These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    So among French-Canadians, 89% are Europeans (who themselves have 1% or so Native ancestry) and 11% are Mestizo. This is similar demographics to places colonised by the Spaniards that had sparsely populated native populations.

    The Boers and Cape Town Coloreds are a valid counter-example. It seems that the Dutch Calvinists in Africa behaved a lot differently than the English ones in the New World.

    Replies: @songbird

  98. @AP
    @Aedib

    One is a mission is right across the border in Brazil:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_of_S%C3%A3o_Miguel_das_Miss%C3%B5es

    The evil Portuguese slave-raiders whom the Jesuits protected were called Banderites (or something close to it).

    Another picture was from Argentina.

    Replies: @Aedib

    Both places are quite similar. There Jesuits instructed Guaranis to defend themselves from bandeirantes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ignacio,_Argentina

    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ignacio_(Misiones)

  99. @A123
    @AP

    There is an internal inconsistency with your position too.

    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokeness, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity. Hint: How Woke is Pope Francis? It is pretty clear that SJW Wokeness is unique to the Catholic hierarchy, even though it is opposed Catholic congregations.
    ____

    You can attempt to argue that Protestantism in Europe and America are fundamentally different. However, all of your positions related to U.S. Christianity are weak or failed.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AP

    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.

    As I posted, wokism stems from Protestantism and shares many key features with it, described by the Protestant minister whose words I provided.

    This does not mean that practicing Protestants would necessarily support Wokism, just as Catholics would not necessarily support some heretic pseudo-Catholic. There is nothing contradictory about conservative Protestants being anti-woke, and wokeness being a twisted and heretical offshoot of Protestantism.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokenessw, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity

    That would be mainline Protestantism with its practicing gay bishops and such. Congregational churches frequently fly BLM and trans flags, have lesbian ministers, etc.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AP

    Fake Stream News points cameras at few churches in New York & California. ​Such behavior is much rarer than the MSNBC depicts. In the U.S. is much easier to find a gay Catholic church versus vs very rare gay Protestant churches. America Catholicism is very Woke and getting Woker, with a handful of exceptions.

    You have not come up with any credible ecumenical reason why Protestantism leads to deviancy. Again, 100% the reverse is true. Catholic deviancy, such as paid Indulgences for rich Catholics, is the source of Protestant resistance. Hierarchical Catholic leadership had a running head start at the money pot of Woke.
    ___

    Historically the two big drivers against Wokeness are USSR oppression and lack of available funds. Impoverished believers, especially those trapped behind the Iron Curtain, are the least woke. The correlation to Catholicism is incidental.

    Or, would you like to state that poverty is a direct consequence of Catholicism?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Max Demian
    @AP


    practicing gay bishops
     
    They still need to practice?

    Might not brazenly buggering be more apt?[1]

    Now, to segue from this tongue-in-cheek* interlude to offer an entirely earnest contribution that is related, if only tangentially, to the topic addressed by the former.

    (*But not-- decidedly, emphatically, unequivocally not-- tongue-in {other anatomical parts}...)

    The categorical, absolute, doctrinaire assertions that homoeroticism is without exception both innate as well as immutable; that it is equivalent to normative heterosexuality (much less to sacred matrimony[2]); and the conflation (both witting as well as unwitting) of involuntary feelings with voluntary behaviors (as well as the conflation of specific, objectively unwholesome acts with homoeroticism, or even homoerotic activity, per se[3]). These are all manifestly false and objectively harmful.

    @Songbird:


    ...beach bods...pretty girls...Long Beach...
     
    Anyone else reminded of the Rodney Dangerfield line from the Jacuzzi scene in the 1986 blockbuster Back to School,
    "Maybe you girls can help me straighten out my Longfellow."?

    To again segue from the jocular and raunchy to the earnest and chaste, I will offer another contention. This one, though, sure to be less popular, accepted or even palatable to the present audience than the previous.

    The Bikini vs. the Burka.

    This should be a false dichotomy. Between these opposite extremes, lies a vast expanse of moderation. If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    Dfordoom would almost certainly disagree. Incidentally, does anyone know what happened to the redoubtable DFD? His last last posted comment dates to August and his blog has disappeared.

    Numbered notes, for some elaboration and elucidation, below break.
    [1] It might incidentally be noted here that to infer from either this or any of my past comments evidence of categorical, unqualified condemnation of homoeroticism, per se on my part would be unfounded. A review of the relevant record would reveal that my criticism, and condemnations and any other attacks I have made within the area-in-question have been directed, rather clearly, emphatically, consistently and often painstakingly, against specific acts, behaviors, positions, views, attitudes, ideologies and movements. The paragraph that immediately follows the launching point for this note should serve as a prime illustration of the very point that the latter attempts to make.

    [2] Upon seeing a word such as sacred in any context such as this, it would seem that most people assume the writer or speaker is arguing from a specifically religious perspective. While such an assumption would generally have at least a high likelihood of being accurate, it need not be. Note that out of a total of seven definitions given for sacred in the first entry for the word at Dictionary [dot] com, a full four (the final four) have no inherent religious or other supernatural meaning or connotations.

    [3] An example of a homoerotic ideal that is at least considerably less unwholesome than the prevailing one, can be found at man2manalliance [dot] org. (GRAPHIC CONTENT)

    Replies: @songbird, @A123, @Barbarossa

  100. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Do you know what the graph represents? Argentina's per capita GDP as a % of Western European & Anglo countries' levels.

    I think the Argentinean economy is already heavily dollarized, but it's still super sluggish because of decades of sovereign debt & hyperinflation. So in a world of an Argentinean digital peso & private cryptos, it will be more of the same. Except it's much harder or maybe outright impossible to exchange digital pesos for cryptos, than fiat pesos for Yankee-imperialist-standard dollars.

    Replies: @songbird

    Do you know what the graph represents? Argentina’s per capita GDP as a % of Western European & Anglo countries’ levels.

    That’s what I gathered. Easy to see in the peace dividend.

    So in a world of an Argentinean digital peso & private cryptos, it will be more of the same.

    Not so sure about this.

    Don’t know a lot about CBDCs, but I presume greater convertibility, so easier to change for competing currencies, with less inflation. Crypto also would have been a hedge against inflation.

    If nothing else, I suspect that there would at least be a much bigger black market economy, with many people working secretly for other currencies. Since crypto is easier to obtain than physical dollars. Not a cure all, but the standard of living would probably be higher.

    I think the performance of some Latin American countries could be much increased with the right technology to fight corruption. Probably, also true of Africa, to a degree, though with a much harsher regime needed there. (Probably social credits, segregation, and crowd AI.)

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird


    That’s what I gathered. Easy to see in the peace dividend.
     
    I'm not sure if you graph-reading skills are working alright, or you're getting the context. Argentina got rich by exporting grain and meat to Europe, something like a second Canada. Once the game was up during the Great Depression they switched to import substitution and stagnated. A few debt crises and they were done (and this is the economic side of the story).

    HBD-wise, the period with the greatest growth coincides with the greatest level of immigration (albeit with Sicilians and Spaniards).

    Replies: @songbird

  101. @AP
    @A123


    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.
     
    As I posted, wokism stems from Protestantism and shares many key features with it, described by the Protestant minister whose words I provided.

    This does not mean that practicing Protestants would necessarily support Wokism, just as Catholics would not necessarily support some heretic pseudo-Catholic. There is nothing contradictory about conservative Protestants being anti-woke, and wokeness being a twisted and heretical offshoot of Protestantism.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokenessw, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity
     
    That would be mainline Protestantism with its practicing gay bishops and such. Congregational churches frequently fly BLM and trans flags, have lesbian ministers, etc.

    Replies: @A123, @Max Demian

    Fake Stream News points cameras at few churches in New York & California. ​Such behavior is much rarer than the MSNBC depicts. In the U.S. is much easier to find a gay Catholic church versus vs very rare gay Protestant churches. America Catholicism is very Woke and getting Woker, with a handful of exceptions.

    You have not come up with any credible ecumenical reason why Protestantism leads to deviancy. Again, 100% the reverse is true. Catholic deviancy, such as paid Indulgences for rich Catholics, is the source of Protestant resistance. Hierarchical Catholic leadership had a running head start at the money pot of Woke.
    ___

    Historically the two big drivers against Wokeness are USSR oppression and lack of available funds. Impoverished believers, especially those trapped behind the Iron Curtain, are the least woke. The correlation to Catholicism is incidental.

    Or, would you like to state that poverty is a direct consequence of Catholicism?

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123


    In the U.S. is much easier to find a gay Catholic church versus vs very rare gay Protestant churches.
     
    Catholic priest + gay are almost entirely a sub-set set relation. Gotta be > 80% in western civilized countries.

    Replies: @A123

  102. @songbird
    @AP

    Alaska was so remote to Russia that the Russians living in Alaska left, when the US bought it, leaving their mestizo descendants there, alone.

    Average Quebecois has like 1-2% admixture, many less. (You can actually find a lot of Anglo Americans like that). A lot of their apparent brownness is just the not uncommon swarthiness of the French.

    Overall less admixture than the Protestant Boers. They have a really large mestizo pop called the Cape Coloureds. Over five million. The predominant population group of the Western Cape.

    Replies: @AP

    As the link I provided shows, the Russians were supporting these Creoles even during their rule.

    The Quebecois studies are of French people (about 4.7 million of them in Canada), and show about 1% Native descent within this population. These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    So among French-Canadians, 89% are Europeans (who themselves have 1% or so Native ancestry) and 11% are Mestizo. This is similar demographics to places colonised by the Spaniards that had sparsely populated native populations.

    The Boers and Cape Town Coloreds are a valid counter-example. It seems that the Dutch Calvinists in Africa behaved a lot differently than the English ones in the New World.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).
     
    In America, these people call themselves Indians. There are multiples more of them, than in Canada, even though Canada is larger. (The rule is to ignore climate, right?) And that isn't counting our Mestizos, which would increase the disparity to a much greater level.

    Replies: @AP

  103. @AP
    @sher singh

    It appears that the former Portuguese-ruled parts of India, with substantial Christian (largely Catholic) minorities, are the most highly developed and richest in the country:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_Human_Development_Index

    This suggests that they were better overlords than the Muslims and the British.

    Replies: @German_reader, @sher singh

    The Portuguese basically just ruled Goa and some tiny districts until the 20th century (whereas Kerala, India’s 2nd richest state after Goa – also with below replacement fertility iirc – was part of British India…and iirc has strong Communist influence in its politics). All of southern India is more advanced than the BIMARU states in the north, it’s pretty silly to claim this difference is mainly due to Catholicism.

    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader

    They also ruled Kerala, albeit much more briefly than they did Goa. They controlled Kerala from about 1500 to 1660.

    Replies: @German_reader

  104. sher singh says:
    @AP
    @sher singh

    It appears that the former Portuguese-ruled parts of India, with substantial Christian (largely Catholic) minorities, are the most highly developed and richest in the country:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_Human_Development_Index

    This suggests that they were better overlords than the Muslims and the British.

    Replies: @German_reader, @sher singh

    They also led a centuries long inquisition using black slaves to force feed Hindus beef||
    Your daughter or grand-daughter will be married to an Indian, so why am I even arguing this with you? :shrug:

    This is the equivalent of Sovoks who argue which specific whatever of the USSR was better.
    The fact you have to hold up 1/3rd of kids being bastards in Poland as a gold trophy, says it all.

    Considering the example of Jesus, shouldn’t 100% out of wedlock birth be the Christian standard?
    Given this reality, the negrophilia of all christian peoples makes sense||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  105. @A123
    @AP

    Fake Stream News points cameras at few churches in New York & California. ​Such behavior is much rarer than the MSNBC depicts. In the U.S. is much easier to find a gay Catholic church versus vs very rare gay Protestant churches. America Catholicism is very Woke and getting Woker, with a handful of exceptions.

    You have not come up with any credible ecumenical reason why Protestantism leads to deviancy. Again, 100% the reverse is true. Catholic deviancy, such as paid Indulgences for rich Catholics, is the source of Protestant resistance. Hierarchical Catholic leadership had a running head start at the money pot of Woke.
    ___

    Historically the two big drivers against Wokeness are USSR oppression and lack of available funds. Impoverished believers, especially those trapped behind the Iron Curtain, are the least woke. The correlation to Catholicism is incidental.

    Or, would you like to state that poverty is a direct consequence of Catholicism?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    In the U.S. is much easier to find a gay Catholic church versus vs very rare gay Protestant churches.

    Catholic priest + gay are almost entirely a sub-set set relation. Gotta be > 80% in western civilized countries.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I do not know about 80%.

    However, the tie between Catholicism and Wokeness is undeniable. The SJW Republic of Ireland just made news: (1)


    The Irish government, currently ruled by a coalition of liberal parties, has approved of a scheme that will “regularize” thousands of illegal immigrants, granting them access to the country’s labor market and providing them a pathway to citizenship.

    The scheme, set to begin in January, will give an estimated 17,000 illegal immigrants who have spent at least four years in Ireland the ability to apply for so-called “regularization.” Successful applicants — along with their undocumented family members — will be given official residency status inside the country, access to the Irish labor market, and a pathway to citizenship, Irish broadcaster RTE reports.
    ...
    Ireland has no plans to cap the amount of migrants eligible for amnesty, and the number could be substantially higher than the 17,000 estimated in the country
     
    So much for Ireland being a bulwark against Wokeness.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/article/irelands-liberal-government-wants-to-give-citizenship-to-17000-illegal-immigrants/
  106. @German_reader
    @AP

    The Portuguese basically just ruled Goa and some tiny districts until the 20th century (whereas Kerala, India's 2nd richest state after Goa - also with below replacement fertility iirc - was part of British India...and iirc has strong Communist influence in its politics). All of southern India is more advanced than the BIMARU states in the north, it's pretty silly to claim this difference is mainly due to Catholicism.

    Replies: @AP

    They also ruled Kerala, albeit much more briefly than they did Goa. They controlled Kerala from about 1500 to 1660.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP

    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time. imo you're suffering from a rather severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors.
    I also don't know if the Portuguese were morally any better as colonialists compared to other powers. When they were dominant in Asian waters in the 16th century, they basically ran a maritime protection racket. Not really any less predatory than the later exploits of the British (and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean, and more so than on the North American mainland).

    Replies: @iffen, @AP

  107. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader

    They also ruled Kerala, albeit much more briefly than they did Goa. They controlled Kerala from about 1500 to 1660.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time. imo you’re suffering from a rather severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors.
    I also don’t know if the Portuguese were morally any better as colonialists compared to other powers. When they were dominant in Asian waters in the 16th century, they basically ran a maritime protection racket. Not really any less predatory than the later exploits of the British (and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean, and more so than on the North American mainland).

    • Replies: @iffen
    @German_reader

    and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean

    Slaves were so cheap that it was literally more economic to buy replacements than provide for the current ones. They worked them to death in 4-5-6 years. If they got 8-9 years out of them it was crème de la crème profit.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @AP
    @German_reader


    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time.
     
    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala. It is probably meaningful that the two parts of India with a history of having been ruled by Portugal are also the most developed and richest. The Indian state of Karnataka, on the same Malabar Coast as these states but without a history of having been ruled by Portugal, is a lot poorer and less developed than the former Portuguese territories.

    The Portuguese also ruled much of Sri Lanka for over 100 years, and the Catholicism that they brought is the largest Christian faith in Sri Lanka (there are 1.3 million Catholics and 300,000 Protestants in Sri Lanka). Sri Lanka is richer and more developed than India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Nepal.

    severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors
     
    It seems that the wealth and development of Portuguese ruled territory in South Asia are not coincidental. Their rule seems to have been benign and to have had good effect.

    (Macau is richer per capita than Hong Kong and Singapore but I suspect this is due to the casinos).

    Replies: @German_reader, @RSDB

  108. @AP
    @songbird

    As the link I provided shows, the Russians were supporting these Creoles even during their rule.

    The Quebecois studies are of French people (about 4.7 million of them in Canada), and show about 1% Native descent within this population. These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    So among French-Canadians, 89% are Europeans (who themselves have 1% or so Native ancestry) and 11% are Mestizo. This is similar demographics to places colonised by the Spaniards that had sparsely populated native populations.

    The Boers and Cape Town Coloreds are a valid counter-example. It seems that the Dutch Calvinists in Africa behaved a lot differently than the English ones in the New World.

    Replies: @songbird

    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    In America, these people call themselves Indians. There are multiples more of them, than in Canada, even though Canada is larger. (The rule is to ignore climate, right?) And that isn’t counting our Mestizos, which would increase the disparity to a much greater level.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    In America, these people call themselves Indians.
     
    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

    There are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec (this does not include Inuit in the North and the Métis). How many in the land of the Puritans in New England? Only 8,600 in Maine, 2,132 in Vermont, 2,036 in New Hampshire, 14,764 in Massachusetts, 9,900 in Connecticut. The Puritan Calvinists just wiped them out, unlike the French Catholics. Upstate New York has only 36,200 Natives.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

  109. Maybe, the antinuclear movement in Germany is really just 4D chess to get others to work out the kinks, so Germans will get the best, latest designs for a bargain price, installed ahead of schedule.

    Stick everyone with fission, while getting fusion.

    For the nonce, I am not sure that it is a bad idea to increase energy prices to the point where the local blacks and Arabs will either need to stop taking hot showers or have their pipes freeze, and eventually start getting frostbite and posting rather less compelling pictures of their circumstances on social media.

  110. This year Gazprom exploited an existing legal loophole when there were no mandatory minimal gas reserve requirements for the storage owners in EU, but it will be closed soon:

    In order to boost the EU resilience, the Commission wants to propose a more strategic approach to gas storage, including measures to ensure a high filling level at the beginning of the heating season.

    When assessing risk at a regional level, member states will have to include an analysis of their gas storage levels and of potential risks related to security of supply, also from when storage is owned by foreign companies. If risks are identified, they will have to introduce counter-measures such as minimum storage obligations, tendering or auctions.

    The proposal also provides for voluntary joint procurement of strategic gas stock by transmission system operators. Such reserves could then be released in case of emergency.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-13/europe-plans-end-date-to-long-term-gas-deals-favored-by-russia?srnd=premium-europe

  111. And now the “Stop Woke Act”:

    https://floridapolitics.com/archives/480481-ron-desantis-crt-stop-woke/

    After Trump’s disappointing performance it’s difficult to get enthusiastic but DeSantis is shaping up as a great contender for the ’24 presidency (though I would rather vote for Tucker if given the choice).

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel

    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump. He did exceedingly well with a non MAGA Senate impeding his efforts.

    You should feel more enthusiasm after the midterms. The negligence of Not-The-President Biden and his puppetmasters points to an impending blowout.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

  112. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123


    In the U.S. is much easier to find a gay Catholic church versus vs very rare gay Protestant churches.
     
    Catholic priest + gay are almost entirely a sub-set set relation. Gotta be > 80% in western civilized countries.

    Replies: @A123

    I do not know about 80%.

    However, the tie between Catholicism and Wokeness is undeniable. The SJW Republic of Ireland just made news: (1)

    The Irish government, currently ruled by a coalition of liberal parties, has approved of a scheme that will “regularize” thousands of illegal immigrants, granting them access to the country’s labor market and providing them a pathway to citizenship.

    The scheme, set to begin in January, will give an estimated 17,000 illegal immigrants who have spent at least four years in Ireland the ability to apply for so-called “regularization.” Successful applicants — along with their undocumented family members — will be given official residency status inside the country, access to the Irish labor market, and a pathway to citizenship, Irish broadcaster RTE reports.

    Ireland has no plans to cap the amount of migrants eligible for amnesty, and the number could be substantially higher than the 17,000 estimated in the country

    So much for Ireland being a bulwark against Wokeness.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/article/irelands-liberal-government-wants-to-give-citizenship-to-17000-illegal-immigrants/

  113. @Mikel
    And now the "Stop Woke Act":

    https://floridapolitics.com/archives/480481-ron-desantis-crt-stop-woke/

    After Trump's disappointing performance it's difficult to get enthusiastic but DeSantis is shaping up as a great contender for the '24 presidency (though I would rather vote for Tucker if given the choice).

    Replies: @A123

    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump. He did exceedingly well with a non MAGA Senate impeding his efforts.

    You should feel more enthusiasm after the midterms. The negligence of Not-The-President Biden and his puppetmasters points to an impending blowout.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123


    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump.
     
    Definitely both.

    I very much doubted he would deport 11 million illegals but I never thought he would actually increase legal immigration*, or that he would make relations with Russia worse, or that he wouldn't be able to end any single war.

    This article made me spill my coffee yesterday. You may not find it so funny but I recommend you read it:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-rights-sun-tzuicide/

    * Like Derbyshire, I am an anti-immigrationinst immigrant. What's best for your adopted country is not necessarily what's best for you personally.

    Replies: @A123, @A123, @A123

  114. @A123
    @Yellowface Anon

    The fact the Iffen is a #NeverTrump acolyte is quite obvious and irrefutable.

    • He repeatedly lies about Trump, blaming him for things beyond his control.
    • He keeps trying to sabotage high-IQ communications methods with broad gender appeal. Most notably #LetsGoBrandon as a technique.

    What is puzzling -- As an obvious #Bidenista, why does Iffen attempt to deny his support for the current occupied White House?
    ____

    I never claimed to be 100% agreement with Trump about everything. I would have made some different choices.

    The critical part is recognizing that MAGA never had the House or Senate during Trump's 1st Term. That greatly limited what he was able to do. People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @iffen

    People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @iffen

    ROTFLMAO

    Clearly you are not talking about me. I spread the TRUTH that you are desperate to conceal, not hate. Let me offer you some constructive advice on how to exit your status as a yahoo.

    *STOP LYING*

    It is the easy one step plan to self improvement. Alas, little can be done about your shockingly limited, Low-IQ mental capability.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    , @Max Demian
    @iffen


    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.
     
    A123's reflexively, categorically pro-(Zionist State that calls itself) Israel and anti-Muslim views do indeed appear caricature-like. And while far from certain that he is, in fact, a shill, I am not ready to entirely exclude such a possibility from the realm of probability.

    But does this comment of yours not contradict one that you had posted to this blog not long ago? Did you not, in the latter, state that while you initially and for some time were convinced that A123 was a Zionist shill, you subsequently, after acquiring greater familiarity with the fullness of his posted views-- both here at Unz and also at what you referred-to as "his website"-- concluded that his views were just too bizarre for him to be a mere shill?

    Replies: @A123

  115. @German_reader
    @AP

    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time. imo you're suffering from a rather severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors.
    I also don't know if the Portuguese were morally any better as colonialists compared to other powers. When they were dominant in Asian waters in the 16th century, they basically ran a maritime protection racket. Not really any less predatory than the later exploits of the British (and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean, and more so than on the North American mainland).

    Replies: @iffen, @AP

    and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean

    Slaves were so cheap that it was literally more economic to buy replacements than provide for the current ones. They worked them to death in 4-5-6 years. If they got 8-9 years out of them it was crème de la crème profit.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @iffen

    I think that's true for the sugar plantations in the Caribbean and in Brazil, where they was indeed constant replacement due to the high death rates. iirc conditions for slaves were better on the North American mainland where there were mostly other crops, slaves even had natural population growth there (apart from some exceptions, I think there were sugar plantations in South Carolina, founded by planters who had come from Barbados, and those were similarly brutal as in the Caribbean).

  116. Russia Puts The Blame On Europe As Energy Crisis Worsens

    By Tsvetana Paraskova – Dec 15, 2021, 3:00 PM CST

    The EU is reconsidering its position on extending long-term natural gas contracts.
    Russia has maintained that the contracts are beneficial for Europe and moving away from them would be a mistake.
    Russia even went as far as suggesting that Europe’s current energy crisis is its own fault.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Russia-Puts-The-Blame-On-Europe-As-Energy-Crisis-Worsens.html

  117. German_reader says:
    @iffen
    @German_reader

    and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean

    Slaves were so cheap that it was literally more economic to buy replacements than provide for the current ones. They worked them to death in 4-5-6 years. If they got 8-9 years out of them it was crème de la crème profit.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I think that’s true for the sugar plantations in the Caribbean and in Brazil, where they was indeed constant replacement due to the high death rates. iirc conditions for slaves were better on the North American mainland where there were mostly other crops, slaves even had natural population growth there (apart from some exceptions, I think there were sugar plantations in South Carolina, founded by planters who had come from Barbados, and those were similarly brutal as in the Caribbean).

  118. @iffen
    @A123

    People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.

    Replies: @A123, @Max Demian

    ROTFLMAO

    Clearly you are not talking about me. I spread the TRUTH that you are desperate to conceal, not hate. Let me offer you some constructive advice on how to exit your status as a yahoo.

    *STOP LYING*

    It is the easy one step plan to self improvement. Alas, little can be done about your shockingly limited, Low-IQ mental capability.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  119. Every time I go to Youtube, I feel like a British officer during the first minute of the Sepoy Rebellion.

    I click on a video with an English title and description. I hear the first sentence or two in a sing-song Indian voice, that makes me feel a bit uneasy, before I am suddenly bushwhacked with an incomprehensible stream of babble so jarring and alien that I can only presume it must be Hindi.

    For all I know, they might be saying “To arms! Now is the moment to takeover the West!”

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird

    Stick to videos that do not have a spoken language track.

    PEACE 😇

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzfpNXCNZWo

    , @silviosilver
    @songbird


    Every time I go to Youtube, I feel like a British officer during the first minute of the Sepoy Rebellion.
     
    Hahaha, a man after my own heart. God it shits me to tears searching for something on youtube and having to scroll past ten thousand videos with English titles but accompanied by hindi script and some pajeet in the thumbnail. How many times I've wished for a "no hindoos" search option. In fact, now I think about it, of all the Britishers' sins (real and imagined), teaching hindoos English surely ranks among the gravest of crimes against humanity.

    Replies: @songbird

  120. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    It’s similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats.
     
    I get your point about Serbs and Croats, but do Albanians really pretend to be that religious? They're not all even nominally Muslim, there's a non-trivial Christian minority, and many godless. Also you've got things like national hero Skanderbeg (after whom the Waffen-SS division was named) who fought the Ottomans, which to me would at least indicate a not entirely uncomplicated attitude towards the Ottoman era and its religious imprint.
    I've got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it's always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don't even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn't accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.

    Replies: @Hyperborean, @Yevardian

    I’ve got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it’s always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don’t even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn’t accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.

    You probably know already, but yes, religion has never really formed a key part of Albanian identity. The most revered aspect in all traditional Albanian society is the Kanun, a compendium of oral law governing blood feuds/pacts, marriage customs, inheritance, land rights, practically every aspect of pre-modern life. The Kanun equally governs behaviour for Muslims, Orthodox and Catholics, it makes no distinction for religion.

    I used to think it had gone defunct after the long Hoxha years, but I can tell you from personal acquaitances, that even amongst urban and educated people it’s very much alive. Well, perhaps not so surprising considering the degree of total anarchy Albania fell into until the late 90s, even worse than Armenia. Albania’s entire electricity grid was actually breaking down, with consequences that can be imagined after daylight. Whole families simply fled Tirana to their ancestral villages during this period, it’s actually universally remembered (I don’t remember the phrase in Albanian [incidentally, it sounds very different to Slavic languages of the area, with lots of ‘th’ and ‘the’ sounds, also distinguishing the ‘English r’, a tap, and a trilled r, I think only Armenian also has this], unfortunately) as ‘The Night of Dark Forces’ in Albania, or something along those lines.
    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they’re not the biggest niggers of Europe.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    The Kanun
     
    I saw a documentary about this years ago, about men who had to go into hiding for decades because of blood feuds which had already killed several people on both sides. Really depressing. I'd assumed though it was limited to remote rural areas, bit disturbing that it seems to be more widespread.

    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they’re not the biggest niggers of Europe.
     
    I think both are easily topped by gypsies.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yevardian

    The first ethnographic data I was ever aware of on Albanians was in Elmore Leonard crime novels. About half Detroit and half Florida. The ones in Detroit had Albanians. Elmore Leonard presents them as criminal, violent, stupid, and insane.

    In Doring's MI6 book he has hundreds of pages on Albania. The whole time I was skimming through this dullest fraction of the book I am wondering why would anybody in MI6 care about Albania? It seems about as insignificant in global politics as Afghanistan.

    Albanians are considered better than gypsies, no?

    Linh Dinh has some good Albania articles. I don't think many people do recreational traveling to Albania.

    Replies: @Yevardian

  121. @songbird
    Every time I go to Youtube, I feel like a British officer during the first minute of the Sepoy Rebellion.

    I click on a video with an English title and description. I hear the first sentence or two in a sing-song Indian voice, that makes me feel a bit uneasy, before I am suddenly bushwhacked with an incomprehensible stream of babble so jarring and alien that I can only presume it must be Hindi.

    For all I know, they might be saying "To arms! Now is the moment to takeover the West!"

    Replies: @A123, @silviosilver

    Stick to videos that do not have a spoken language track.

    PEACE 😇

    • LOL: songbird
  122. @German_reader
    @AP

    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time. imo you're suffering from a rather severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors.
    I also don't know if the Portuguese were morally any better as colonialists compared to other powers. When they were dominant in Asian waters in the 16th century, they basically ran a maritime protection racket. Not really any less predatory than the later exploits of the British (and slavery in the sugar plantations of Brazil was probably just as brutal as in the British Caribbean, and more so than on the North American mainland).

    Replies: @iffen, @AP

    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time.

    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala. It is probably meaningful that the two parts of India with a history of having been ruled by Portugal are also the most developed and richest. The Indian state of Karnataka, on the same Malabar Coast as these states but without a history of having been ruled by Portugal, is a lot poorer and less developed than the former Portuguese territories.

    The Portuguese also ruled much of Sri Lanka for over 100 years, and the Catholicism that they brought is the largest Christian faith in Sri Lanka (there are 1.3 million Catholics and 300,000 Protestants in Sri Lanka). Sri Lanka is richer and more developed than India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Nepal.

    severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors

    It seems that the wealth and development of Portuguese ruled territory in South Asia are not coincidental. Their rule seems to have been benign and to have had good effect.

    (Macau is richer per capita than Hong Kong and Singapore but I suspect this is due to the casinos).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala.
     
    tbh I think neither you nor I know enough about India to really have any idea what is behind the differences between north and south India. I doubt it can be reduced merely to Portuguese rule or Catholicism, there must be many other factors (there are vast differences between the regions after all, linguistically, culturally, in the caste system...arguably the people in north and south India aren't even the same genetically). I'll grant though that Portuguese rule doesn't seem to have had any lasting negative effects, and probably left at least some nice architecture behind.

    Replies: @AP

    , @RSDB
    @AP

    It is a funny thing about Sri Lanka-- as far as I know, the Kandian Sinhalese never did very much persecution of Christians, but there were two groups who did, the Tamil kings of Jaffna, and the Dutch (who tried to suppress Catholicism specifically).

    Today many Tamils are Christian, roughly one in five (possibly a little more now as some converted during the recent war and that figure is from 1981), and, of the only descendants of the Dutch in Sri Lanka, the Dutch Burghers, every single one I have ever met has been Catholic.

  123. @songbird
    @AP


    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).
     
    In America, these people call themselves Indians. There are multiples more of them, than in Canada, even though Canada is larger. (The rule is to ignore climate, right?) And that isn't counting our Mestizos, which would increase the disparity to a much greater level.

    Replies: @AP

    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    In America, these people call themselves Indians.

    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

    There are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec (this does not include Inuit in the North and the Métis). How many in the land of the Puritans in New England? Only 8,600 in Maine, 2,132 in Vermont, 2,036 in New Hampshire, 14,764 in Massachusetts, 9,900 in Connecticut. The Puritan Calvinists just wiped them out, unlike the French Catholics. Upstate New York has only 36,200 Natives.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

     

    You are making a categorization error, based on differences between American English and français québécois.

    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)

    In America, not counting Latinos, there is only one category: those who call themselves "Indian." Some of these, like the Navajo (one of the bigger groups, who were probably growing the most corn, being in the right climatic area) are very Amerind. Others like the Miꞌkmaq, who span into Canada from Maine, often show very Euro phenotypes. They are still "Indians", even though they often have blue eyes and blond hair, and even though their campaign for recognition, I believe, continues to fail.

    Similarly, there are many "Indians" in Oklahoma, who were they in Quebec might be called "Métis" or even be presumed to be French. In the US, we also have black "Indians", which I am not sure what they would call, as last time I was in Quebec, Canada hadn't yet been invaded by blacks. (though that was a long time ago.)

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of "Indians" in America. The reason is climate.

    Replies: @AP, @sher singh

    , @songbird
    @AP


    14,764 in Massachusetts
     
    Curious, on the 2010 census, there were 37,000. Are you sure you didn't count households?

    https://historyofmassachusetts.org/native-american-tribes/

    Replies: @AP

  124. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader


    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time.
     
    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala. It is probably meaningful that the two parts of India with a history of having been ruled by Portugal are also the most developed and richest. The Indian state of Karnataka, on the same Malabar Coast as these states but without a history of having been ruled by Portugal, is a lot poorer and less developed than the former Portuguese territories.

    The Portuguese also ruled much of Sri Lanka for over 100 years, and the Catholicism that they brought is the largest Christian faith in Sri Lanka (there are 1.3 million Catholics and 300,000 Protestants in Sri Lanka). Sri Lanka is richer and more developed than India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Nepal.

    severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors
     
    It seems that the wealth and development of Portuguese ruled territory in South Asia are not coincidental. Their rule seems to have been benign and to have had good effect.

    (Macau is richer per capita than Hong Kong and Singapore but I suspect this is due to the casinos).

    Replies: @German_reader, @RSDB

    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala.

    tbh I think neither you nor I know enough about India to really have any idea what is behind the differences between north and south India. I doubt it can be reduced merely to Portuguese rule or Catholicism, there must be many other factors (there are vast differences between the regions after all, linguistically, culturally, in the caste system…arguably the people in north and south India aren’t even the same genetically). I’ll grant though that Portuguese rule doesn’t seem to have had any lasting negative effects, and probably left at least some nice architecture behind.

    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader

    I agree, there are a lot of other factors involved so the conclusion cannot be definitive.

    The fact that within the same region the one non-Portuguese ruled state is a lot poorer and less developed than the two Portuguese ruled ones that border it (although it is about average for all of India) does suggests IMO that Portuguese rule was beneficial.

    Replies: @sher singh

  125. @AP
    @Hyperborean


    As an antecedent, the pre-dissolution Jesuits (who held ultramontane views) in Latin America* and Asia showed that they were willing to de-Europeanise Christianity if it meant they could gain converts.
     
    Jesuit efforts in Latin America certainly wasn't de-Europeanisation!

    The Jesuits brilliantly taught the natives of South America to build beautiful baroque churches in the jungles and savannahs:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Ruinas-saomiguel13.jpg

    https://static.dw.com/image/19510452_303.jpg

    They also taught the previously savage natives to play beautiful baroque music:

    https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/paraguay604/music.html

    "These missions, known as reducciones, became home and refuge to thousands of Paraguay's Guarani Indians. The missionaries not only provided shelter but also taught the Guarani people to play European music and make their own instruments, including the cello, harp and violin. Each mission had a church, an orchestra, several artisans' shops, and schools of music and painting."

    The Natives were even composing such music!

    An example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeYBdGN7OQ

    This was essentially the opposite of wokeness, which is now trying to nullify Western civilization, even to the point of introducing pre-Christian demon-"gods" to Mexican-American children.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/sep/3/parents-sue-california-over-mandated-chants-aztec-/

    "A group of parents in California sued the State Board of Education Friday over a proposed new “Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum” (ESMC) that would have public school students chanting affirmations to Aztec gods and invoking an ancient Nigerian Yoruba religious prayer."

    The Jesuits also taught the techniques of skillful warfare, enabling them to defeat would-be Portuguese slave raiders.

    These Jesuit missions were the best of European efforts outside Europe, saving souls, protecting natives from slavery, and bringing beauty into the world.

    Compare the Jesuit activities to those of the Calvinists in North America who were living dour lives and mostly slaughtering the natives.


    Catholic Liberation Theology predates the ‘Great Awokening’ by decades.
     
    This, also not good, is a different creature from wokeness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Hyperborean, @Aedib, @Yevardian

    Of course, the main reason we still know so much about Aztec and Incan societies is because the missionaries went out of their way to preserve their texts. The previous native-state languages, Nahuatl and Quechua, actually spread to a larger spoken area than previously, literacy in Nahuatl (I don’t know so much about Quechua, but the aftermaeth of Tupac Amaru’s rebellion definitely resulted in much worse ethnic-tensions than in Central Mexico) was strongly encouraged, whole Aztec codexes post-date the Spanish conquest.
    It took until the 17th Century that the Spanish Empire changed it policy and started actively discouraging usage of local languages, but it was still quite lazy about it. Ironically, it was the independence of Latin America that produced the first active persecution and rejection of any tongues other than Spanish, as previously Spain had always maintained a power-balance between the indigenous peasants against the ostensibly ‘white’ creole elite.

    Even now the racial lines in Latin American politics remain extremely obvious, with Chavez, Evol Morales, now with Pedro Castillo (I recall a few months ago some Peruvian claiming he was going to the bring the apocalypse and that he’d stay abroad without a visa if I had to, we’ll see).

    Oh, last thing, I recall scoffing at Dmitri (maybe a year ago) about how ‘he learned Spanish without effort’.. well, it did turn out that was in fact more or less correct, at least regarding reading, or listening with local subtitles. I guess being familiar with Romanian already helped a lot, but I was really surprised by how simple it was, I thought only English was so simple to learn to a functional level. Speaking of accents, I have to say I find Seseo sounds disgusting.

    • Agree: AP
  126. German_reader says:
    @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    I’ve got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it’s always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don’t even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn’t accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.
     
    You probably know already, but yes, religion has never really formed a key part of Albanian identity. The most revered aspect in all traditional Albanian society is the Kanun, a compendium of oral law governing blood feuds/pacts, marriage customs, inheritance, land rights, practically every aspect of pre-modern life. The Kanun equally governs behaviour for Muslims, Orthodox and Catholics, it makes no distinction for religion.

    I used to think it had gone defunct after the long Hoxha years, but I can tell you from personal acquaitances, that even amongst urban and educated people it's very much alive. Well, perhaps not so surprising considering the degree of total anarchy Albania fell into until the late 90s, even worse than Armenia. Albania's entire electricity grid was actually breaking down, with consequences that can be imagined after daylight. Whole families simply fled Tirana to their ancestral villages during this period, it's actually universally remembered (I don't remember the phrase in Albanian [incidentally, it sounds very different to Slavic languages of the area, with lots of 'th' and 'the' sounds, also distinguishing the 'English r', a tap, and a trilled r, I think only Armenian also has this], unfortunately) as 'The Night of Dark Forces' in Albania, or something along those lines.
    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they're not the biggest niggers of Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Kanun

    I saw a documentary about this years ago, about men who had to go into hiding for decades because of blood feuds which had already killed several people on both sides. Really depressing. I’d assumed though it was limited to remote rural areas, bit disturbing that it seems to be more widespread.

    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they’re not the biggest niggers of Europe.

    I think both are easily topped by gypsies.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @German_reader


    I think both are easily topped by gypsies.
     
    Undoubtedly. NPR liberals will sometimes caterwaul about "the poor marginalized Roma" and how the word gypsy is racist, etc. I don't hear boo about no po' Albanians or Serbs.

    That conclusively proves that gypsies are the niggers of Europe and Albanians and Serbs are just poor whites.
  127. @German_reader
    @AP


    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala.
     
    tbh I think neither you nor I know enough about India to really have any idea what is behind the differences between north and south India. I doubt it can be reduced merely to Portuguese rule or Catholicism, there must be many other factors (there are vast differences between the regions after all, linguistically, culturally, in the caste system...arguably the people in north and south India aren't even the same genetically). I'll grant though that Portuguese rule doesn't seem to have had any lasting negative effects, and probably left at least some nice architecture behind.

    Replies: @AP

    I agree, there are a lot of other factors involved so the conclusion cannot be definitive.

    The fact that within the same region the one non-Portuguese ruled state is a lot poorer and less developed than the two Portuguese ruled ones that border it (although it is about average for all of India) does suggests IMO that Portuguese rule was beneficial.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @AP

    Go search for the holy foreskin while powered by vial's of Mary's breast milk u nasty ass Catholic.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777363024196796426/915893451088863282/IMG_3994.png

    http://indiafacts.org/the-portuguese-inquisition-in-goa-a-brief-history/

    Goa is also where christcucks got demographically replaced by Hindus, template for all christendom||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  128. @AP
    @songbird


    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    In America, these people call themselves Indians.
     
    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

    There are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec (this does not include Inuit in the North and the Métis). How many in the land of the Puritans in New England? Only 8,600 in Maine, 2,132 in Vermont, 2,036 in New Hampshire, 14,764 in Massachusetts, 9,900 in Connecticut. The Puritan Calvinists just wiped them out, unlike the French Catholics. Upstate New York has only 36,200 Natives.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

    You are making a categorization error, based on differences between American English and français québécois.

    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)

    In America, not counting Latinos, there is only one category: those who call themselves “Indian.” Some of these, like the Navajo (one of the bigger groups, who were probably growing the most corn, being in the right climatic area) are very Amerind. Others like the Miꞌkmaq, who span into Canada from Maine, often show very Euro phenotypes. They are still “Indians”, even though they often have blue eyes and blond hair, and even though their campaign for recognition, I believe, continues to fail.

    Similarly, there are many “Indians” in Oklahoma, who were they in Quebec might be called “Métis” or even be presumed to be French. In the US, we also have black “Indians”, which I am not sure what they would call, as last time I was in Quebec, Canada hadn’t yet been invaded by blacks. (though that was a long time ago.)

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of “Indians” in America. The reason is climate.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)
     
    Métis are not only mixed but also exclusively Francophone and Catholic. They have no tribal awareness (other than as Métis). They are like Mestizos in Latin America (Spanish-speaking only, no real tribal affiliation, but of mixed blood). There are products of mixed marriage with Indians, but no such group in the USA and no Anglo mixed group in Canada either. It's a French thing, and a Spanish thing, and a Russian thing - but not an Anglo thing.

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of “Indians” in America. The reason is climate.
     
    There are nearly 90,000 Natives in Quebec. Add Metis and Inuit and it is 140,000. The climate is no much different than in New England, but in New England there are only around 30,000 Natives. So Quebec has three times more. Two regions, both settled by Europeans around the same time, both with fairly similar climates - yet three times more Natives live where the French settled versus where the Anglos settled.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @sher singh
    @songbird

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Canada#Demographics_and_classification

    Close to 10% of newborns are Native in Canada, and the largest % are on the Anglo prarie.
    Ironically, where Franco-catholics were banned from settling.

    Natives and Catholics both compete for the same supply of mouthwash and gasoline||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @AP

  129. @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    I’ve got no personal experience of the Balkans, but to me it’s always seemed Albanians care primarily about Albanianness, and don’t even pretend otherwise. Even our Serb commenters, who loathed them and came up with bizarre theories about their origin in the Caucasus, usually didn’t accuse Albanians of being jihadis, just of being violent and tribal people with criminal inclinations.
     
    You probably know already, but yes, religion has never really formed a key part of Albanian identity. The most revered aspect in all traditional Albanian society is the Kanun, a compendium of oral law governing blood feuds/pacts, marriage customs, inheritance, land rights, practically every aspect of pre-modern life. The Kanun equally governs behaviour for Muslims, Orthodox and Catholics, it makes no distinction for religion.

    I used to think it had gone defunct after the long Hoxha years, but I can tell you from personal acquaitances, that even amongst urban and educated people it's very much alive. Well, perhaps not so surprising considering the degree of total anarchy Albania fell into until the late 90s, even worse than Armenia. Albania's entire electricity grid was actually breaking down, with consequences that can be imagined after daylight. Whole families simply fled Tirana to their ancestral villages during this period, it's actually universally remembered (I don't remember the phrase in Albanian [incidentally, it sounds very different to Slavic languages of the area, with lots of 'th' and 'the' sounds, also distinguishing the 'English r', a tap, and a trilled r, I think only Armenian also has this], unfortunately) as 'The Night of Dark Forces' in Albania, or something along those lines.
    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they're not the biggest niggers of Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    The first ethnographic data I was ever aware of on Albanians was in Elmore Leonard crime novels. About half Detroit and half Florida. The ones in Detroit had Albanians. Elmore Leonard presents them as criminal, violent, stupid, and insane.

    In Doring’s MI6 book he has hundreds of pages on Albania. The whole time I was skimming through this dullest fraction of the book I am wondering why would anybody in MI6 care about Albania? It seems about as insignificant in global politics as Afghanistan.

    Albanians are considered better than gypsies, no?

    Linh Dinh has some good Albania articles. I don’t think many people do recreational traveling to Albania.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    @German_Reader


    I saw a documentary about this years ago, about men who had to go into hiding for decades because of blood feuds which had already killed several people on both sides. Really depressing. I’d assumed though it was limited to remote rural areas, bit disturbing that it seems to be more widespread.
     
    Well, the Kanun doesn't just deal with blood feuds, I meant more that practically every demographic in Albania is still familiar with its tenets, or has defaulted to it in some way in a social dispute at some point.

    In Doring’s MI6 book he has hundreds of pages on Albania. The whole time I was skimming through this dullest fraction of the book I am wondering why would anybody in MI6 care about Albania? It seems about as insignificant in global politics as Afghanistan.
     
    Albania has access to the Mediterranean in the most volatile and unstable part of Europe.


    Albanians are considered better than gypsies, no?
     
    I think Congolese would be considered better than gypsies.

    Linh Dinh has some good Albania articles. I don’t think many people do recreational traveling to Albania.
     
    Yeah, I've read him intermittently since he was published here, but he seems to have gone off the deep end recently, as well as revealed how petty he was. At least he'll never be as batshit as Mike Whitney. He should have stuck away from politics and stuck with travel-writing.
  130. Reply to Songbird’s 936 on the other thread…

    IIRC, in one of his books, Richard Henry Dana Jr. said that while he was in San Francisco, he visited a French congregation and an Irish one. He felt that the French service was quite a lot more civilized and the Irish one primitive, which is really no wonder given that due to persecution there were practically no Catholic elite left in Ireland, and Catholics only owned 3% of the land.

    I didn’t know that the Catholic Irish owned so little land. Were the big estates broken up after independence?

    There was something is similar in England, the older Catholic churches are often smaller and less ornate than the grander Church of England ones (and sometimes Methodist, some of the Victorian Methodists seem to have liked imposing churches), or if you compare with what can be seen in France itself or Spain. By the time I was growing up obvious anti-Catholic and anti-Irish atttiudes had mostly gone, though among people from the more established middle or upper classes you could become aware it had some social significance, this must have been related to the status of the Catholic Irish before independence.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Coconuts


    I didn’t know that the Catholic Irish owned so little land.
     
    It seems remarkable to think of it, but Hugh O'Neill in Ulster (went to Protestant church, though probably a Catholic) may have been the most powerful landowner in Ireland by the time of his rebellion

    In 1641, after the plantations of Ulster and Munster, it was 59%. After Cromwell, I think it was down to <10%, in Connaught and Clare. This number bounced back up after the Restoration to 22% by 1688. After the Williamite War, by the time the dust settled and the courts had closed, in 1702, it was 14%, and I think nearly all of those were Normans (they were given priority), who traditionally would have seen themselves as English. Though, due to the Penal Laws, which affected inheritance among Catholics, this number became only about 3% from the mid 1700s-1870.

    Of course, that figure doesn't include some who might have had strong Catholic sympathies.

    Daniel O'Connell (1776-1847) was from one of the very few native Irish Catholic families who owned land. His family were able to accumulate it through a mix smuggling, which allowed them to generate cash, and the connivance of Protestant relatives who originally held much of it under their names. Daniel was actually fostered in his youth, which was an ancient Irish custom. Though I think it is uncertain whether his family was actually aristocratic in origin, eventually they owned tens of thousands of acres. They were the landlords of my family, which was very fortunate for them, as it meant that their rents were adjusted significantly downward, during hard times.

    Elsewhere it was still hard, though there was a minor swing in elite opinion. Another branch of my family, evicted in the late 1860s (decade of most evictions?) won a court case against their landlord, even though the jury were landlords. I once saw some very interesting photos of evictions during the 1880s. (I don't believe a movie has ever done it justice, from a perspective of visual scale, there were hundreds of policemen)

    TBH, I'm not really certain about later decades. Of course, there had been really massive emigration, and a lot of the land had been turned to pasture, as it was more profitable (cause of many of the evictions.) I think a lot of people were able to buy small plots of land, due to money being sent back. And I think that a lot of the gentry families became bankrupt, just as they did in England.

    But, as far as I know, there were never any land seizures. Protestants continued to control the capital, which they did not invest locally, or in Catholics. To at least a small degree, I suspect that this was a negative factor which way have helped the takeover of Ireland by multinationals. The quick sellout of the political elites, at very cheap prices. Not to mention, a desire to be inclusive and non-partisan and play down sentiment about blood.

    The first real immigrant invasion of Ireland was Nigerians, dropping anchor babies, which were made possible by a loophole made during the peace process in the 1990s.
    ____________

    There was something is similar in England, the older Catholic churches are often smaller and less ornate than the grander Church of England ones
     
    Cromwell's soldiers stabled their horses within churches.

    In 1798, I want to say around 130 churches were burnt down. (I've been hoping to see a list of them, but am unsure if one survives). One branch of my family, I do know had their church burnt down. It was blamed on Catholics. The next week, they met in a malthouse, and it was also burnt down. The local garrison commander offered a house he owned as a meeting place, but nobody came, as his men had murdered a few people.

    Different parish, and branch, but there's one grave that I suspect connects to my line (though hard to be 100% certain). Very eroded but appears to say March 17, 1798. And have some other reason to suspect that he was murdered, though I don't believe any trace of the story survives. The British army smashed all presses that reported outrages among Catholics.

    I only found this out recently, but one of my GG grandmothers was still alive during the War of Independence, and the Black and Tans attacked her village, smashing the windows and setting fire to roofs. (They murdered a few men nearby) Along another side of my family, I have heard rumor that my grandfather was some kind of runner. I wish I knew more about it.
  131. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yevardian

    The first ethnographic data I was ever aware of on Albanians was in Elmore Leonard crime novels. About half Detroit and half Florida. The ones in Detroit had Albanians. Elmore Leonard presents them as criminal, violent, stupid, and insane.

    In Doring's MI6 book he has hundreds of pages on Albania. The whole time I was skimming through this dullest fraction of the book I am wondering why would anybody in MI6 care about Albania? It seems about as insignificant in global politics as Afghanistan.

    Albanians are considered better than gypsies, no?

    Linh Dinh has some good Albania articles. I don't think many people do recreational traveling to Albania.

    Replies: @Yevardian

    @German_Reader

    I saw a documentary about this years ago, about men who had to go into hiding for decades because of blood feuds which had already killed several people on both sides. Really depressing. I’d assumed though it was limited to remote rural areas, bit disturbing that it seems to be more widespread.

    Well, the Kanun doesn’t just deal with blood feuds, I meant more that practically every demographic in Albania is still familiar with its tenets, or has defaulted to it in some way in a social dispute at some point.

    In Doring’s MI6 book he has hundreds of pages on Albania. The whole time I was skimming through this dullest fraction of the book I am wondering why would anybody in MI6 care about Albania? It seems about as insignificant in global politics as Afghanistan.

    Albania has access to the Mediterranean in the most volatile and unstable part of Europe.

    Albanians are considered better than gypsies, no?

    I think Congolese would be considered better than gypsies.

    Linh Dinh has some good Albania articles. I don’t think many people do recreational traveling to Albania.

    Yeah, I’ve read him intermittently since he was published here, but he seems to have gone off the deep end recently, as well as revealed how petty he was. At least he’ll never be as batshit as Mike Whitney. He should have stuck away from politics and stuck with travel-writing.

  132. @AP
    @A123


    Protestants are essential to MAGA and Christian Populism. Protestant beliefs are at their core anti-Woke.
     
    As I posted, wokism stems from Protestantism and shares many key features with it, described by the Protestant minister whose words I provided.

    This does not mean that practicing Protestants would necessarily support Wokism, just as Catholics would not necessarily support some heretic pseudo-Catholic. There is nothing contradictory about conservative Protestants being anti-woke, and wokeness being a twisted and heretical offshoot of Protestantism.

    As Protestants are leading the charge against Wokenessw, it does not take too much effort to track down the most Woke branch of Christianity
     
    That would be mainline Protestantism with its practicing gay bishops and such. Congregational churches frequently fly BLM and trans flags, have lesbian ministers, etc.

    Replies: @A123, @Max Demian

    practicing gay bishops

    They still need to practice?

    Might not brazenly buggering be more apt?[1]

    Now, to segue from this tongue-in-cheek* interlude to offer an entirely earnest contribution that is related, if only tangentially, to the topic addressed by the former.

    (*But not— decidedly, emphatically, unequivocally not– tongue-in {other anatomical parts}…)

    The categorical, absolute, doctrinaire assertions that homoeroticism is without exception both innate as well as immutable; that it is equivalent to normative heterosexuality (much less to sacred matrimony[2]); and the conflation (both witting as well as unwitting) of involuntary feelings with voluntary behaviors (as well as the conflation of specific, objectively unwholesome acts with homoeroticism, or even homoerotic activity, per se[3]). These are all manifestly false and objectively harmful.

    @Songbird:

    …beach bods…pretty girls…Long Beach…

    Anyone else reminded of the Rodney Dangerfield line from the Jacuzzi scene in the 1986 blockbuster Back to School,
    “Maybe you girls can help me straighten out my Longfellow.”?

    To again segue from the jocular and raunchy to the earnest and chaste, I will offer another contention. This one, though, sure to be less popular, accepted or even palatable to the present audience than the previous.

    The Bikini vs. the Burka.

    This should be a false dichotomy. Between these opposite extremes, lies a vast expanse of moderation. If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    Dfordoom would almost certainly disagree. Incidentally, does anyone know what happened to the redoubtable DFD? His last last posted comment dates to August and his blog has disappeared.

    Numbered notes, for some elaboration and elucidation, below break.

    [MORE]

    [1] It might incidentally be noted here that to infer from either this or any of my past comments evidence of categorical, unqualified condemnation of homoeroticism, per se on my part would be unfounded. A review of the relevant record would reveal that my criticism, and condemnations and any other attacks I have made within the area-in-question have been directed, rather clearly, emphatically, consistently and often painstakingly, against specific acts, behaviors, positions, views, attitudes, ideologies and movements. The paragraph that immediately follows the launching point for this note should serve as a prime illustration of the very point that the latter attempts to make.

    [2] Upon seeing a word such as sacred in any context such as this, it would seem that most people assume the writer or speaker is arguing from a specifically religious perspective. While such an assumption would generally have at least a high likelihood of being accurate, it need not be. Note that out of a total of seven definitions given for sacred in the first entry for the word at Dictionary [dot] com, a full four (the final four) have no inherent religious or other supernatural meaning or connotations.

    [3] An example of a homoerotic ideal that is at least considerably less unwholesome than the prevailing one, can be found at man2manalliance [dot] org. (GRAPHIC CONTENT)

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Max Demian


    Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.
     
    I'm a bit torn on this sort of thing.

    One side of me really sees the negative aspects of bikinis. Foremost being that many women are ugly, and I think it helps sun worship, which I abhor. Also, I really like the aesthetics of traditional dress codes - I mean , like school uniforms, not the burka. And I also hate the aesthetics of lax dress codes, many become walking advertisements for globohomo companies, which I see as dehumanizing.

    But, OTOH, I really appreciate that K-selected signal, when you see a woman who is good-looking but dresses conservatively. if everyone dresses that way, it would be much harder to discern.

    But, then again, seeing cows in miniskirts is murder on the eyes.

    , @A123
    @Max Demian


    If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.
     
    From an HBD perspective, the bikini is much more sound. All of the genetic markers for optimum reproduction and mate selection are on display.

    From a culture perspective the bikini is a strong driver towards physical health in most societal subgroups. The fact that Leftoids were were driven to histrionics by a "Beach Body" ad is strong supporting evidence that bikinis are the correct choice.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/composite-potien-gurl.jpg
     

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/2706976/renee-somerfield-swimwear-collection/

    , @Barbarossa
    @Max Demian

    dfordoom seems to have checked out of Unz following the demise of AE's blog, since he seemed to have some crankiness about Karlin.

    I was checking into his personal blog a bit myself, and notice that it had been suddenly memory holed. I've wondered myself how he's doing Down Under. Hopefully he's doing okay.

  133. @iffen
    @A123

    People with unrealistic expectations pose a serious problem.

    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.

    Replies: @A123, @Max Demian

    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.

    A123‘s reflexively, categorically pro-(Zionist State that calls itself) Israel and anti-Muslim views do indeed appear caricature-like. And while far from certain that he is, in fact, a shill, I am not ready to entirely exclude such a possibility from the realm of probability.

    But does this comment of yours not contradict one that you had posted to this blog not long ago? Did you not, in the latter, state that while you initially and for some time were convinced that A123 was a Zionist shill, you subsequently, after acquiring greater familiarity with the fullness of his posted views– both here at Unz and also at what you referred-to as “his website”– concluded that his views were just too bizarre for him to be a mere shill?

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon, A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @Max Demian

    Clearly, I am a Christian. I find Iffen's Low-IQ accusations of "hasbara" quite bizzare.

    There are hasbra bots, and they are easily identified by one note posting. Clearly I am no such thing. For example,
    -- My entire debate with German_Reader. I point out that the source of SJW Wokeness is Europe generally and Germany specifically. For some reason he keeps falsely blaming America for Germanic Wokeness inspired by 16 years of Merkel's far Left leadership.
    -- Similarly posting over the impending economic collapse in China being driven by Evergrande and other property developers does not fit any model of "hasbara"

    The simple fact is that Iffen's failed #NeverTrump vendetta has driven him unto madness. No one can help him until he wants to get better. Lashing out at me is a symptom of his mental decline. I am not angry with him, and I forgive him.
    ___

    I see the Muslim Jihad against Christianity in it TRUE horror. Piles of dead bodies dead at Islamic hands. Some examples being, The Bataclan in Paris and the Pulse Night club in America.

    I look a little further and see additional Muslim massacres against other faiths, such as the Sbarro bombing in Jerusalem and the perpetual incursions into Hindu Kashmir. Of course, I support those who wish to get rid of Jihadist contamination. I am no friend of CCP Elite rule, however I have to admit when they get something right. Their treatment of infestation in China's Western lands is obviously correct. Slaves labouring in sex separated camps have little opportunity to breed or pass on destructive false beliefs.

    This does not imply relations between Christians, Jews, Indians, and Han Chinese will be perfect. However, it does not take deep analysis to reach an obvious TRUTH. They will all be better off with out the blood horror of Islamic contamination opposing native society.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. The linked website, https://theconservativetreehouse.com/ , is not "mine". I am simply giving it free publicity via the UR site feature.

  134. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker
     
    That's the case for all of Eastern Europe, no? It's similar with Serbs/ Albanians/Croats. Religion becomes an identity marker and on some level tied to ethnicity. This is ironic given the low levels of genuine religiosity in these countries.

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising country in the world, but from what I've seen in polls, people still declare themselves overwhelmingly Catholic. The youth just stop going to church. Putin's public displays of Orthodox piety is not matched by the church-avoiding youth. Yet public declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin - without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.

    This pattern repeats itself in country after country in Eastern Europe. A naïve analysis would conclude that Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn't the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by 'disapora nationalists', projecting their fantasies onto societies that do not conform to their cherished ideals.

    Replies: @German_reader, @AP, @Dmitry

    Poland is the most rapidly secularising

    At least in comparison to other slavic nationalities (which includes the most secular in Europe), Poles are very religious though. You can see this if you visit a church in Western Europe – depending on area, it can be mostly Africans, Poles, Filipinos, Latins, etc.

    Catholicism is part of the mainstream culture in Poland.

    It’s completely not-comparable to Russia, where religion (even Hare Krishna) is really a very minority sect, obscure to most of the country, and to extent had never extended to the mainstream population (as late as in the 19th century, the clergy complains about the extreme difficulty of imposing norms on the peasants).

    So the average person doesn’t know what religion is teaching or the most basic things about it. The clergymen are writing on Facebook about how the visitors to their services don’t know the most simple customs. (Whereas in Poland, you can be sure average people know how the services go).

    Putin’s public displays of Orthodox

    Putin is a KGB officer, and a lot of the ruling class are from the intelligence serves of the USSR, so this is a different kind of politics. In countries like Poland, although their government is apparently considered “embarrassing” by educated Poles; they have seemed to be able to create a relatively more “normal” (or European, democratic) political reality nowadays. So I don’t think the Polish politicians are doing this kind of cynical appearing state-building attemptings.

    Since the end of communism, Poland has managed to create a kind of European, modern, democratic political system.

    declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin – without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.

    There is also the type of religion or spirituality that is more discovered in Russia – it’s something that becomes attractive for older people. That is, people who were secular for most of their life, might become religious as they become old. They “discover religion” as they age, as you can say.

    Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’,

    I think it varies from which country we are discussing, and what you mean by traditional (which historical time it refers to).

    The more advanced countries of the USSR, like in Russia have maintained less traditions from the 19th century and earlier, than Western European countries.

    Western European countries like UK have far traditions of the 19th century and earlier, in comparison.

    But because of a slow of development in most of the country of the last 30 years, there is still more maintained a lot of the traditions of the 20th century in Russia (although the rapid computerization of the population in the last 10 years is scary, as the dying of the villages).

    Poland’s history is different as they have nationalism (unlike in Russia, where the history is imperialism). In Poland, self-consciously tried to maintain their folkloric culture as part of the nationalism project since various partitions.

    And what about those Southern countries like Romania, Bulgaria? These can seem incredibly traditional in some ways.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Dmitry


    So the average person doesn’t know what religion is teaching or the most basic things about it. The clergymen are writing on Facebook about how the visitors to their services don’t know the most simple customs. (Whereas in Poland, you can be sure average people know how the services go).
     
    That's surprising, because there really isn't that much to know, in terms of customs. All you really do is just stand there (when I was a kid, there were no pews at our church, just a bench by the wall for kids and the elderly, everyone else stood the entire time) and cross yourself when the priest does (and at other times as you deem it necessary - like after an 'amen' is a safe bet - generally by following other people, who themselves probably don't really know whether it's strictly required...). Maybe it's different in the Russian church.

    Of course, even knowing the customs is no guarantee of actual religious knowledge. My parents are a good example of this. The know (and follow) all the customs, but that and a couple of prayers in the morning and evening are all their religion consists of. We had a bible in the house but I never once saw them read it. I never once heard them discussing what some aspect of their faith meant to them, or heard them evaluate their behavior or a family issue in terms of what their faith requires of them. They would have no idea what any of the saints whose feast days they so diligently keep track of were famous for, or if they do, it would be something they half remember from a documentary they saw or, even more vaguely, a story they can recollect from their childhood, but certainly nothing they were ever spontaneously inspired to read up on. And yet neither of them have ever given me any reason to think that they believe Christianity to be anything but 100% true.

    Of course, for the longest time, this was entirely typical of the average Christian, going all the way back to the earliest days of the church. (Protestants sometimes seem to forget that disciples didn't go around handing out bibles lol.) I don't know much about it, but my guess would be that it's more or less the case today for the typical muslim in all those "traditional" and "highly Islamic" countries. To look at them, it's easy to think wow they're so devout, surely the content of the koran means everything to them. But who knows, maybe they care as much about the actual content of the koran as my parents care about the content of the bible - ie they'd quickly agree that if it's in there, it must in some way be "important," but their actual behavior evinces little interest in finding out.
  135. @Coconuts
    Reply to Songbird's 936 on the other thread...

    IIRC, in one of his books, Richard Henry Dana Jr. said that while he was in San Francisco, he visited a French congregation and an Irish one. He felt that the French service was quite a lot more civilized and the Irish one primitive, which is really no wonder given that due to persecution there were practically no Catholic elite left in Ireland, and Catholics only owned 3% of the land.
     

    I didn't know that the Catholic Irish owned so little land. Were the big estates broken up after independence?

    There was something is similar in England, the older Catholic churches are often smaller and less ornate than the grander Church of England ones (and sometimes Methodist, some of the Victorian Methodists seem to have liked imposing churches), or if you compare with what can be seen in France itself or Spain. By the time I was growing up obvious anti-Catholic and anti-Irish atttiudes had mostly gone, though among people from the more established middle or upper classes you could become aware it had some social significance, this must have been related to the status of the Catholic Irish before independence.

    Replies: @songbird

    I didn’t know that the Catholic Irish owned so little land.

    It seems remarkable to think of it, but Hugh O’Neill in Ulster (went to Protestant church, though probably a Catholic) may have been the most powerful landowner in Ireland by the time of his rebellion

    [MORE]

    In 1641, after the plantations of Ulster and Munster, it was 59%. After Cromwell, I think it was down to <10%, in Connaught and Clare. This number bounced back up after the Restoration to 22% by 1688. After the Williamite War, by the time the dust settled and the courts had closed, in 1702, it was 14%, and I think nearly all of those were Normans (they were given priority), who traditionally would have seen themselves as English. Though, due to the Penal Laws, which affected inheritance among Catholics, this number became only about 3% from the mid 1700s-1870.

    Of course, that figure doesn't include some who might have had strong Catholic sympathies.

    Daniel O'Connell (1776-1847) was from one of the very few native Irish Catholic families who owned land. His family were able to accumulate it through a mix smuggling, which allowed them to generate cash, and the connivance of Protestant relatives who originally held much of it under their names. Daniel was actually fostered in his youth, which was an ancient Irish custom. Though I think it is uncertain whether his family was actually aristocratic in origin, eventually they owned tens of thousands of acres. They were the landlords of my family, which was very fortunate for them, as it meant that their rents were adjusted significantly downward, during hard times.

    Elsewhere it was still hard, though there was a minor swing in elite opinion. Another branch of my family, evicted in the late 1860s (decade of most evictions?) won a court case against their landlord, even though the jury were landlords. I once saw some very interesting photos of evictions during the 1880s. (I don't believe a movie has ever done it justice, from a perspective of visual scale, there were hundreds of policemen)

    TBH, I'm not really certain about later decades. Of course, there had been really massive emigration, and a lot of the land had been turned to pasture, as it was more profitable (cause of many of the evictions.) I think a lot of people were able to buy small plots of land, due to money being sent back. And I think that a lot of the gentry families became bankrupt, just as they did in England.

    But, as far as I know, there were never any land seizures. Protestants continued to control the capital, which they did not invest locally, or in Catholics. To at least a small degree, I suspect that this was a negative factor which way have helped the takeover of Ireland by multinationals. The quick sellout of the political elites, at very cheap prices. Not to mention, a desire to be inclusive and non-partisan and play down sentiment about blood.

    The first real immigrant invasion of Ireland was Nigerians, dropping anchor babies, which were made possible by a loophole made during the peace process in the 1990s.
    ____________

    There was something is similar in England, the older Catholic churches are often smaller and less ornate than the grander Church of England ones

    Cromwell’s soldiers stabled their horses within churches.

    In 1798, I want to say around 130 churches were burnt down. (I’ve been hoping to see a list of them, but am unsure if one survives). One branch of my family, I do know had their church burnt down. It was blamed on Catholics. The next week, they met in a malthouse, and it was also burnt down. The local garrison commander offered a house he owned as a meeting place, but nobody came, as his men had murdered a few people.

    Different parish, and branch, but there’s one grave that I suspect connects to my line (though hard to be 100% certain). Very eroded but appears to say March 17, 1798. And have some other reason to suspect that he was murdered, though I don’t believe any trace of the story survives. The British army smashed all presses that reported outrages among Catholics.

    I only found this out recently, but one of my GG grandmothers was still alive during the War of Independence, and the Black and Tans attacked her village, smashing the windows and setting fire to roofs. (They murdered a few men nearby) Along another side of my family, I have heard rumor that my grandfather was some kind of runner. I wish I knew more about it.

    • Thanks: Coconuts, Barbarossa
  136. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    The most politically "woke" country in Western Europe is the Republic of Ireland
     
    Yes, but, Dim, have you been around the Irish? This is because they are so innocent and sweet. They are like children who want to be everybody's friend and be kind and gracious to everybody. They don't know how to say No. That's because they are completely unprotected and they don't have those hard*ss Germanic instincts. And because their tradition is one of the oldest in Northern Europe that stems from the likes of Pelagius.

    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I'm not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    they are so innocent and sweet

    Lol I know Republic of Ireland.

    If you said they are “responsive, charming, extroverted, and socially intelligent”, this is true. I will disagree with “innocent”.

    They are the most extroverted, self-confident, socially intelligent, kind of “tropical” friendly people, after maybe Italy.

    But charming is not the same as innocent, although maybe a sign of high levels of charming skills if you can make people (or teacher, police, boss, parents, etc) think you are innocent.

    By the way, I wonder why they developed such a friendly personality there? I was enjoying speculating something like claims Japanese became very polite, because they were without weapons, under control of samurais. Maybe Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills against English.

    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I’m not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.

    What it is said by Irish cultural about politics, is “we always support the weaker side”, because the mainstream attitude is to view themselves as victims of imperialism.

    So they (I mean mainstream of culture) view themselves like they victims of history, like another African-Americans or Native Indians. It’s not really the same as “woke” of the UK, as it doesn’t exactly involve as self-flagellation. Still it is something like “woke allies”. Whereas in the Kingdom, the woke view is that to admit they were imperialists, and then self-flagellate.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry

    Yes, I was going to say that the Irish developed the charm so they could BS their English overlords.

    As being mostly Irish myself I agree with you about a certain amount of "reservation mentality" relating towards victim-hood. The Irish sure did get the sharp end of a lot of sticks but it doesn't help to brood about generational woes.

    It always is an amusing side to the "bad Wypipo" mentality... where do the Irish fit in there?! I deserve reparations too! We wuz Kangz 'o Tara!

    , @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Maybe the Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills with English
     
    Well, they did have weapons later on. But it's not a bad guess. They are verbally quite astute. However, this does not explain why other peoples that were subjected to tyranny did not develop this light heartedness and charitability (such as our own people).

    And you're making a similar point as I tried to make. It seems their openness to the world comes from the feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas). Whereas certain other Western types go about it with a kind of a self-righteous fanaticism which seems to be more about status and the desire to control others and to impose their will on others.

    Of course, having wokeness arise from the victim narrative is not all that flattering... those things should be separated.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird

  137. @songbird
    @AP


    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

     

    You are making a categorization error, based on differences between American English and français québécois.

    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)

    In America, not counting Latinos, there is only one category: those who call themselves "Indian." Some of these, like the Navajo (one of the bigger groups, who were probably growing the most corn, being in the right climatic area) are very Amerind. Others like the Miꞌkmaq, who span into Canada from Maine, often show very Euro phenotypes. They are still "Indians", even though they often have blue eyes and blond hair, and even though their campaign for recognition, I believe, continues to fail.

    Similarly, there are many "Indians" in Oklahoma, who were they in Quebec might be called "Métis" or even be presumed to be French. In the US, we also have black "Indians", which I am not sure what they would call, as last time I was in Quebec, Canada hadn't yet been invaded by blacks. (though that was a long time ago.)

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of "Indians" in America. The reason is climate.

    Replies: @AP, @sher singh

    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)

    Métis are not only mixed but also exclusively Francophone and Catholic. They have no tribal awareness (other than as Métis). They are like Mestizos in Latin America (Spanish-speaking only, no real tribal affiliation, but of mixed blood). There are products of mixed marriage with Indians, but no such group in the USA and no Anglo mixed group in Canada either. It’s a French thing, and a Spanish thing, and a Russian thing – but not an Anglo thing.

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of “Indians” in America. The reason is climate.

    There are nearly 90,000 Natives in Quebec. Add Metis and Inuit and it is 140,000. The climate is no much different than in New England, but in New England there are only around 30,000 Natives. So Quebec has three times more. Two regions, both settled by Europeans around the same time, both with fairly similar climates – yet three times more Natives live where the French settled versus where the Anglos settled.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP

    Quebec: 1,365,128 km2 (land area)
    New England: 162,362 km2 (land area)

    Shall we call it 1/8? So you are saying that Quebec has 3x the natives as New England, but 8x the land?


    The climate is not much different than in New England
     
    I would disagree with this categorization, which seems to be falsified by the Inuit being one of the native groups of Quebec.

    Outside of snowstorms, which can be staggeringly horrible, winter in Boston and points South is not too horrible. Extreme cold (negative Fahrenheit) is fairly rare. Boston Harbor hardly ever freezes. OTOH, a hundred miles west or north, it can be quite horrible. So, you have a significant chunk of New England which compared to most of Canada, has mild winters, where it is common to get multiple thaws, even if sometimes a great deal of snow, which sometimes can be as heavy as concrete.

    So, basically what you have is relatively high agricultural potential for colonists. But low for Indians, who had no manure, no plow or draft animals (very rocky soil), and who had probably only just barely acclimated corn to this latitude, and only sowed snatch crops of it, being somewhat migratory. On the whole, it was not very different from England. And pretty accessible with big rivers like the Merrimack and the Connecticut.

    Though Quebec was quite different from France. Much harder to access. Much harsher and unforgiving. BTW, if you have not read it, I recommend the book Through a Howling Wilderness: Benedict Arnold's March to Quebec. (It is a short book and touches on this theme). Anyway, there may have been a little more mixing in Quebec as there were a lot of trappers there, or men living on the edge. However, the difference does not seem very great, when considering the area.

    Replies: @AP

  138. @Mikel
    @AP


    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why.
     
    Well, there's always multiple factors at play but the most important part of the explanation to this mystery is not very difficult to unravel. Just like 60 years of communism inoculated some Europeans against leftist fantasies, 40 years of clerical-nationalism inoculated others against right-wing extremism and to a large extent against religion itself.

    At the end of Franco's dictatorship and return to democracy being right-wing was very uncool, especially among younger people. In Italy, by contrast, being neo-fascist was transgressive and thus attractive for the young.

    What is surprising is how long these tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans may well never catch-up in wokeness to Westerners. In fact, that is what I perceive with my Polish son and his friends, all in their twenties. They are quite tolerant in sexual matters, including towards the LGB stuff, but otherwise they are very right-wing, particularly in racial and immigration matters. Religion is at best performative, I don't know that any of them is an observant Catholic.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Agathoklis

    Franco’s dictatorship

    I was just going to write this to AP.

    20th century Spain had for many years under a dictatorship, which had cynically exploited a rhetoric of “religion, conservatism” (while in some times of “moralist” Franco, a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes).

    After a pigeon in a Skinner box has been brutally electrocuted enough times, it will probably not “graduate” Skinner box, with positive associations to anything (even if only meaningless sounds) that had correlated to these electrocutions it had experienced in the Skinner box.

    tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans

    But in Russia and many postsoviet countries, there is not a “negative association” against previous politics, like in Spain after Franco. The worst electrocutions have been after the previous politics, rather than during them.

    That’s the sense it was better before in Soviet times. It’s from the 1970s, has been if not always becoming worse life, the national trajectories have been below most anyone’s expectations for how life would be. Postsoviet realities, are a feeling of being on the trashcan of history.

    Whereas in Spain it was from the post-Franco, to 2008, a situation of improvement of living standards, access to EU, infrastructure investment, increasing international prestige. Spain’s GDP was higher than the Russian Federation from 1990-2008, despite around multiple of 3,3 less people. Even just from the lines on the graph, you can infer how post-Franco stage had likely been experienced as positive by most of the population until 2008.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    you can infer how post-Franco stage had likely been experienced as positive by most of the population until 2008.
     
    Not exactly. Spain grew economically very fast during the last decades of Franco's dictatorship. In the late 50s he abandoned the autarkic economic policies favored by the fascist-traditionalist branch of his supporters and put Catholic Opus Dei technocrats in charge of the economy. Their liberalization policies made Spain's growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan's.

    By the mid-70s the Spanish per-capita GDP was 79% of the then Common Market's. However, the international stagflation crisis began almost exactly after Franco's death and hit Spain even harder than the rest of Western Europe. Spain would not reach those levels of per-capita GDP until the 90s.

    In the 80s in some parts of Spain the motto of "With Franco we used to live better" became popular, which some leftists changed to "Against Franco we used to live better".

    in some times of “moralist” Franco, a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes
     
    I've seen you make this claim several times before but it's surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention. It definitely didn't happen in the most Catholic areas of the country. Many years ago I got to know a guy who had been in the brothel industry in the Basque Country since the 40s. He loved telling stories about the old times, including the police raids they had to fight against, but having lots of prostitutes was never something he mentioned. On the contrary, he said that he only began making real money when Latin American women finally arrived and the supply became stabilized. He was very fond of his Brazilian former employees and kept pictures of them partying with champagne.

    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated but this was a very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly forbidden. Even hardly erotic movies like Gilda were sanitized by the censors for the Spanish viewers. In order to see something like Marlon Brando's Last Tango in Paris poor Spaniards had to cross the border to France. Ironically, prostitution in France is forbidden nowadays so things have reversed and lots of French cross the border now in the opposite direction to avail themselves of those services.

    Anyway, what probably happened is that in the very harsh post-war years, when there were actually some deaths from starvation in Spain, cities where Catholicism was not so strong, such as Madrid or Barcelona, must have seen an increase in prostitution and other illegal activities. Smuggling and counterfeiting were certainly widespread in those years.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  139. @AP
    @songbird


    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)
     
    Métis are not only mixed but also exclusively Francophone and Catholic. They have no tribal awareness (other than as Métis). They are like Mestizos in Latin America (Spanish-speaking only, no real tribal affiliation, but of mixed blood). There are products of mixed marriage with Indians, but no such group in the USA and no Anglo mixed group in Canada either. It's a French thing, and a Spanish thing, and a Russian thing - but not an Anglo thing.

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of “Indians” in America. The reason is climate.
     
    There are nearly 90,000 Natives in Quebec. Add Metis and Inuit and it is 140,000. The climate is no much different than in New England, but in New England there are only around 30,000 Natives. So Quebec has three times more. Two regions, both settled by Europeans around the same time, both with fairly similar climates - yet three times more Natives live where the French settled versus where the Anglos settled.

    Replies: @songbird

    Quebec: 1,365,128 km2 (land area)
    New England: 162,362 km2 (land area)

    Shall we call it 1/8? So you are saying that Quebec has 3x the natives as New England, but 8x the land?

    [MORE]

    The climate is not much different than in New England

    I would disagree with this categorization, which seems to be falsified by the Inuit being one of the native groups of Quebec.

    Outside of snowstorms, which can be staggeringly horrible, winter in Boston and points South is not too horrible. Extreme cold (negative Fahrenheit) is fairly rare. Boston Harbor hardly ever freezes. OTOH, a hundred miles west or north, it can be quite horrible. So, you have a significant chunk of New England which compared to most of Canada, has mild winters, where it is common to get multiple thaws, even if sometimes a great deal of snow, which sometimes can be as heavy as concrete.

    So, basically what you have is relatively high agricultural potential for colonists. But low for Indians, who had no manure, no plow or draft animals (very rocky soil), and who had probably only just barely acclimated corn to this latitude, and only sowed snatch crops of it, being somewhat migratory. On the whole, it was not very different from England. And pretty accessible with big rivers like the Merrimack and the Connecticut.

    Though Quebec was quite different from France. Much harder to access. Much harsher and unforgiving. BTW, if you have not read it, I recommend the book Through a Howling Wilderness: Benedict Arnold’s March to Quebec. (It is a short book and touches on this theme). Anyway, there may have been a little more mixing in Quebec as there were a lot of trappers there, or men living on the edge. However, the difference does not seem very great, when considering the area.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird

    Now compare liveable territory versus tundra. Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England, further magnifying the discrepancy and highlighting the sad plight of Natives subjected to Anglo Calvinist settlement.

    The Saint Lawrence River valley is not much harsher than New England (due to lower elevation, milder than the mountainous parts). French settlers squeezing into here did not disappear the natives (this is why when I mentioned Native settlement I highlighted the 90,000 Indians and not the Inuit in the far North)

    Replies: @songbird

  140. @Aedib
    @Mike_from_Russia

    They are the echoes of Annalena Baerbock's words.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia

    On
    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1043888
    “Has someone decided that 1500 is the limit? You’re wrong. Asia has accepted the challenge”

    Today, they have gained more than 20% during the trading session.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_Russia
    @Mike_from_Russia

    From - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044001
    Gas in Europe is trading at 1550+
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/image%20%2811%29_0.png

    It seems like it's just a new reality that you have to get used to.
    The whole modern industry is built on energy consumption, and energy has gone up a little so much. In a modest few times.
    Will the industry survive in these conditions? Big question.
    Here's another fun electricity price map.
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/IMG_20211216_111228_576.jpg
    These are wholesale prices.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

  141. @Max Demian
    @AP


    practicing gay bishops
     
    They still need to practice?

    Might not brazenly buggering be more apt?[1]

    Now, to segue from this tongue-in-cheek* interlude to offer an entirely earnest contribution that is related, if only tangentially, to the topic addressed by the former.

    (*But not-- decidedly, emphatically, unequivocally not-- tongue-in {other anatomical parts}...)

    The categorical, absolute, doctrinaire assertions that homoeroticism is without exception both innate as well as immutable; that it is equivalent to normative heterosexuality (much less to sacred matrimony[2]); and the conflation (both witting as well as unwitting) of involuntary feelings with voluntary behaviors (as well as the conflation of specific, objectively unwholesome acts with homoeroticism, or even homoerotic activity, per se[3]). These are all manifestly false and objectively harmful.

    @Songbird:


    ...beach bods...pretty girls...Long Beach...
     
    Anyone else reminded of the Rodney Dangerfield line from the Jacuzzi scene in the 1986 blockbuster Back to School,
    "Maybe you girls can help me straighten out my Longfellow."?

    To again segue from the jocular and raunchy to the earnest and chaste, I will offer another contention. This one, though, sure to be less popular, accepted or even palatable to the present audience than the previous.

    The Bikini vs. the Burka.

    This should be a false dichotomy. Between these opposite extremes, lies a vast expanse of moderation. If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    Dfordoom would almost certainly disagree. Incidentally, does anyone know what happened to the redoubtable DFD? His last last posted comment dates to August and his blog has disappeared.

    Numbered notes, for some elaboration and elucidation, below break.
    [1] It might incidentally be noted here that to infer from either this or any of my past comments evidence of categorical, unqualified condemnation of homoeroticism, per se on my part would be unfounded. A review of the relevant record would reveal that my criticism, and condemnations and any other attacks I have made within the area-in-question have been directed, rather clearly, emphatically, consistently and often painstakingly, against specific acts, behaviors, positions, views, attitudes, ideologies and movements. The paragraph that immediately follows the launching point for this note should serve as a prime illustration of the very point that the latter attempts to make.

    [2] Upon seeing a word such as sacred in any context such as this, it would seem that most people assume the writer or speaker is arguing from a specifically religious perspective. While such an assumption would generally have at least a high likelihood of being accurate, it need not be. Note that out of a total of seven definitions given for sacred in the first entry for the word at Dictionary [dot] com, a full four (the final four) have no inherent religious or other supernatural meaning or connotations.

    [3] An example of a homoerotic ideal that is at least considerably less unwholesome than the prevailing one, can be found at man2manalliance [dot] org. (GRAPHIC CONTENT)

    Replies: @songbird, @A123, @Barbarossa

    Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    I’m a bit torn on this sort of thing.

    One side of me really sees the negative aspects of bikinis. Foremost being that many women are ugly, and I think it helps sun worship, which I abhor. Also, I really like the aesthetics of traditional dress codes – I mean , like school uniforms, not the burka. And I also hate the aesthetics of lax dress codes, many become walking advertisements for globohomo companies, which I see as dehumanizing.

    But, OTOH, I really appreciate that K-selected signal, when you see a woman who is good-looking but dresses conservatively. if everyone dresses that way, it would be much harder to discern.

    But, then again, seeing cows in miniskirts is murder on the eyes.

  142. @AP
    @German_reader

    I agree, there are a lot of other factors involved so the conclusion cannot be definitive.

    The fact that within the same region the one non-Portuguese ruled state is a lot poorer and less developed than the two Portuguese ruled ones that border it (although it is about average for all of India) does suggests IMO that Portuguese rule was beneficial.

    Replies: @sher singh

    Go search for the holy foreskin while powered by vial’s of Mary’s breast milk u nasty ass Catholic.

    http://indiafacts.org/the-portuguese-inquisition-in-goa-a-brief-history/

    Goa is also where christcucks got demographically replaced by Hindus, template for all christendom||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  143. @songbird
    @AP


    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

     

    You are making a categorization error, based on differences between American English and français québécois.

    In Canada, there are two separate categories: Métis (who are mixed) and Indian (less mixed or perhaps, even sometimes pureblood)

    In America, not counting Latinos, there is only one category: those who call themselves "Indian." Some of these, like the Navajo (one of the bigger groups, who were probably growing the most corn, being in the right climatic area) are very Amerind. Others like the Miꞌkmaq, who span into Canada from Maine, often show very Euro phenotypes. They are still "Indians", even though they often have blue eyes and blond hair, and even though their campaign for recognition, I believe, continues to fail.

    Similarly, there are many "Indians" in Oklahoma, who were they in Quebec might be called "Métis" or even be presumed to be French. In the US, we also have black "Indians", which I am not sure what they would call, as last time I was in Quebec, Canada hadn't yet been invaded by blacks. (though that was a long time ago.)

    Add up Métis and Indians in Canada, and your total will still only be a tiny fraction of the number of "Indians" in America. The reason is climate.

    Replies: @AP, @sher singh

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Canada#Demographics_and_classification

    Close to 10% of newborns are Native in Canada, and the largest % are on the Anglo prarie.
    Ironically, where Franco-catholics were banned from settling.

    Natives and Catholics both compete for the same supply of mouthwash and gasoline||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @AP
    @sher singh

    Prairies are full of French speaking Metis.

  144. @Mike_from_Russia
    @Aedib

    On
    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1043888
    "Has someone decided that 1500 is the limit? You're wrong. Asia has accepted the challenge"

    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u35972/2021/JKM-15dec.jpg

    Today, they have gained more than 20% during the trading session.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia

    From – https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044001
    Gas in Europe is trading at 1550+

    It seems like it’s just a new reality that you have to get used to.
    The whole modern industry is built on energy consumption, and energy has gone up a little so much. In a modest few times.
    Will the industry survive in these conditions? Big question.
    Here’s another fun electricity price map.

    These are wholesale prices.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Mike_from_Russia

    It is just reflection of a current pricing policy in EU, which is regulated such way that in principle highest bidder makes the final price. e.g. French (or any other) nuclear industry is making a killing now with their self cost price being roughly around 40-50 EUR/Mwh, but they have to sell at a French gas powered electricity plant current self cost price of 350 EUR, despite it being the minority producer compared with nuclear one.

    That pricing policy can and will be changed if current situation will stay for longer.

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Mike_from_Russia

    What's with cheaper Polish electricity?

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @A123
    @Mike_from_Russia

    It should be noted that these are "spot" prices for additional resources above contract.

    Places that have hedged well, V4 and Serbia, have very little volume at these prices. Germany hedged poorly and is now bearing the brunt of the price swings.

    PEACE 😇

  145. @Mike_from_Russia
    @Mike_from_Russia

    From - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044001
    Gas in Europe is trading at 1550+
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/image%20%2811%29_0.png

    It seems like it's just a new reality that you have to get used to.
    The whole modern industry is built on energy consumption, and energy has gone up a little so much. In a modest few times.
    Will the industry survive in these conditions? Big question.
    Here's another fun electricity price map.
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/IMG_20211216_111228_576.jpg
    These are wholesale prices.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    It is just reflection of a current pricing policy in EU, which is regulated such way that in principle highest bidder makes the final price. e.g. French (or any other) nuclear industry is making a killing now with their self cost price being roughly around 40-50 EUR/Mwh, but they have to sell at a French gas powered electricity plant current self cost price of 350 EUR, despite it being the minority producer compared with nuclear one.

    That pricing policy can and will be changed if current situation will stay for longer.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @sudden death

    Meanwhile though seeing such infamous Gazprom natgas guzzlers as Germany, Italy, Austria, Hungary or Serbia painted black, but "russophobe" Poland with more than 2x lower prices is quite pleasurable, lol :)

  146. I don’t know how anyone missed such an important literary event, but Hillary Clinton recently just published a sub Tom-Clancy thriller where a certain ‘Secretary of State’ saves the world, I was just reading a review of it in Private Eye (A British monthly, one of the few publications actually worth subscribing for, although I’m neither Anglo nor live in Britain, so most of their local news goes over my head), but the review had enough choice quotes to indicate it’s utterly batshit.
    Nearly all the ‘characters’ are thinly veiled versions of current leaders, somehow she couldn’t think of a less ridiculous name than ‘Mr Peugeot’ for Macron, or less generic than ‘Ivanov’ for Putin.

    Before you check, it has already averaged a 4.5 star-rating from 10’000+ reviews on amazon, I guess I’m just out of step with the times.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Yevardian

    It is reassuring that there are grifters on the left too.

    , @songbird
    @Yevardian

    Did you read that one where Merkel, after stepping down, becomes a detective?


    What will Angela Merkel do now? The German David Safier (Bremen, 1966) has turned her into a novel character: retired, together with her husband, she tries to adapt to her new life in a small town in the mountains. Circumstances cause her to become an amateur detective, trying to solve a murder, much to the despair of Mike, her bodyguard. Miss Merkel. The case of the retired chancellor (Seix Barral) is among the best-selling books in Germany since it appeared last March. The shift to carry Merkel’s calm and analytical leadership style – heed her legendary clasping hands gesture, the Merkel diamond, Merkel’s rhombus, on the cover of the Spanish edition – and her scientific past from chemistry and quantum physics to a detective adventure in the field has captivated German readers, and there is even a television series in preparation. This Wednesday it will arrive in Spanish [my bold] bookstores.

    “When I saw the possible successors who were vying for their position in the party, a certain nostalgia invaded me – says the author by video call, from his home in Bremen -. ‘Get your claws out of there!’ No one can match her, Merkel is by far the most popular policy in Germany for a long time. I was wondering: what is she going to do next? Surely she will not remain in the administration. And I don’t see her entering a company like, for example, the Russian leaders do with Gazprom. Until, watching an episode of Lieutenant Colombo, I had the enlightenment: I would solve murders! ”. “Like Colombo,” he continues, “Merkel is very intelligent but people tend to underestimate her. Her political rivals looked down on her, even in her own party. I have imagined that he returns to her region of origin and there she becomes a detective ”.
     
    https://today.in-24.com/world/389033.html
  147. @sudden death
    @Mike_from_Russia

    It is just reflection of a current pricing policy in EU, which is regulated such way that in principle highest bidder makes the final price. e.g. French (or any other) nuclear industry is making a killing now with their self cost price being roughly around 40-50 EUR/Mwh, but they have to sell at a French gas powered electricity plant current self cost price of 350 EUR, despite it being the minority producer compared with nuclear one.

    That pricing policy can and will be changed if current situation will stay for longer.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Meanwhile though seeing such infamous Gazprom natgas guzzlers as Germany, Italy, Austria, Hungary or Serbia painted black, but “russophobe” Poland with more than 2x lower prices is quite pleasurable, lol 🙂

  148. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    Do you know what the graph represents? Argentina’s per capita GDP as a % of Western European & Anglo countries’ levels.
     
    That's what I gathered. Easy to see in the peace dividend.

    So in a world of an Argentinean digital peso & private cryptos, it will be more of the same.
     
    Not so sure about this.

    Don't know a lot about CBDCs, but I presume greater convertibility, so easier to change for competing currencies, with less inflation. Crypto also would have been a hedge against inflation.

    If nothing else, I suspect that there would at least be a much bigger black market economy, with many people working secretly for other currencies. Since crypto is easier to obtain than physical dollars. Not a cure all, but the standard of living would probably be higher.

    I think the performance of some Latin American countries could be much increased with the right technology to fight corruption. Probably, also true of Africa, to a degree, though with a much harsher regime needed there. (Probably social credits, segregation, and crowd AI.)

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    That’s what I gathered. Easy to see in the peace dividend.

    I’m not sure if you graph-reading skills are working alright, or you’re getting the context. Argentina got rich by exporting grain and meat to Europe, something like a second Canada. Once the game was up during the Great Depression they switched to import substitution and stagnated. A few debt crises and they were done (and this is the economic side of the story).

    HBD-wise, the period with the greatest growth coincides with the greatest level of immigration (albeit with Sicilians and Spaniards).

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    Was talking about the bulge after WW2, in comparison to Europe. To a certain extent, it probably is related to another wave of immigration. (though not totally) But they probably wouldn't have come, if Buenos Aires had been firebombed or nuked.


    Argentina got rich by exporting grain and meat to Europe, something like a second Canada. Once the game was up during the Great Depression they switched to import substitution and stagnated.
     
    Mentioned before here, many times, but the story is not that simple. Their leaders for instance made stupendously corrupt trade deals with the English, which shafted Argentine sellers.
  149. @Mike_from_Russia
    @Mike_from_Russia

    From - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044001
    Gas in Europe is trading at 1550+
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/image%20%2811%29_0.png

    It seems like it's just a new reality that you have to get used to.
    The whole modern industry is built on energy consumption, and energy has gone up a little so much. In a modest few times.
    Will the industry survive in these conditions? Big question.
    Here's another fun electricity price map.
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/IMG_20211216_111228_576.jpg
    These are wholesale prices.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    What’s with cheaper Polish electricity?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Yellowface Anon

    Poland is not using natgas for electricity production, their main&own source is native brown coal.

    Replies: @Aedib, @A123

  150. @Yellowface Anon
    @Mike_from_Russia

    What's with cheaper Polish electricity?

    Replies: @sudden death

    Poland is not using natgas for electricity production, their main&own source is native brown coal.

    • Agree: Mike_from_Russia
    • Replies: @Aedib
    @sudden death

    So, Germany should start to use coal again. Unintended consequences of the green ideology.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia, @sudden death

    , @A123
    @sudden death


    Poland is not using natgas for electricity production, their main&own source is native brown coal.
     
    Also, it appears that export grid capacity for Poland is already "maxed out". Thus the local producers are often unable to sell additional energy into the EU market. Whether intentional or unintentional, Poland as a country is winning. Low energy prices help beat back inflation.

    PEACE 😇
  151. @songbird
    @AP

    Quebec: 1,365,128 km2 (land area)
    New England: 162,362 km2 (land area)

    Shall we call it 1/8? So you are saying that Quebec has 3x the natives as New England, but 8x the land?


    The climate is not much different than in New England
     
    I would disagree with this categorization, which seems to be falsified by the Inuit being one of the native groups of Quebec.

    Outside of snowstorms, which can be staggeringly horrible, winter in Boston and points South is not too horrible. Extreme cold (negative Fahrenheit) is fairly rare. Boston Harbor hardly ever freezes. OTOH, a hundred miles west or north, it can be quite horrible. So, you have a significant chunk of New England which compared to most of Canada, has mild winters, where it is common to get multiple thaws, even if sometimes a great deal of snow, which sometimes can be as heavy as concrete.

    So, basically what you have is relatively high agricultural potential for colonists. But low for Indians, who had no manure, no plow or draft animals (very rocky soil), and who had probably only just barely acclimated corn to this latitude, and only sowed snatch crops of it, being somewhat migratory. On the whole, it was not very different from England. And pretty accessible with big rivers like the Merrimack and the Connecticut.

    Though Quebec was quite different from France. Much harder to access. Much harsher and unforgiving. BTW, if you have not read it, I recommend the book Through a Howling Wilderness: Benedict Arnold's March to Quebec. (It is a short book and touches on this theme). Anyway, there may have been a little more mixing in Quebec as there were a lot of trappers there, or men living on the edge. However, the difference does not seem very great, when considering the area.

    Replies: @AP

    Now compare liveable territory versus tundra. Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England, further magnifying the discrepancy and highlighting the sad plight of Natives subjected to Anglo Calvinist settlement.

    The Saint Lawrence River valley is not much harsher than New England (due to lower elevation, milder than the mountainous parts). French settlers squeezing into here did not disappear the natives (this is why when I mentioned Native settlement I highlighted the 90,000 Indians and not the Inuit in the far North)

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP

    Where are the Indians in Haiti?


    Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England
     
    I'm not sure that this is correct. New England has areas which are unarable or so acidic that they are arable for only very specific crops like cranberries, and it is fairly narrow and somewhat constrained by mountains.

    But, leave it aside, as my contention is that the Indians on both sides were primarily huntergatherers. Some in Quebec being entirely huntergatherers, with zero agriculture, others sowing snatch crops, while those in New England only sowed snatch crops, meaning that they did not stay in one place the whole year, while looking after their fields, but fished or hunted deer and gathered nuts.

    It seems obvious that, according to the limits of this lifestyle, there would be many more hunter-gatherers in Quebec (much larger) than in (much smaller) New England. I'll also add that disease probably ravaged agricultural communities more, due to larger population sizes.

    And I think you would expect that there would be a little more mixing where there was less farming and more hunter-gathering, due to women being more amendable to living in agricultural communities than in icy forests, such as in the rather large Boreal Forest part of Quebec. That is why Quebecois often might be about 1% Indian, though the percentage for Mayflower New Englanders would be less.

    Pocahontas (English colony, though not from NE) actually has living descendants today, though she did not live a long time, due to diseases that she was not evolved for.
    _____
    Anyway, I don't think that either of us are expert enough to understand what the expected number of Indians should be. Probably it would take extracting DNA from a lot of old bones (not something Indians are amendable to) and complicated modeling to get to something close to the real number, if it is even possible.

    My main disagreement with you is in your moral condemnation of European settlement in America. To start with, I think your attitude is too flippant, and that this flippancy comes from your family being more recent transplants, with zero perceived interest in maintaining a traditional American identity (and perhaps no experience of an America with one), but more interest in elevating the newcomer.

    Meanwhile, though I don't come of Protestant stock, or anything close to Mayflower descent, I have some older, though not very old roots in America. However, half of my family was well-integrated into a traditional American cultural identity, which took place while the WASPs were still in ascendancy, and where there was little room for political correctness. During this time, mainstream historians still laughed at Sacagawea and Americans (there was then such a cohesive identity of closely-related Euros) were too prideful to be susceptible to these attacks meant to elevate not Indians, but the latest invader.

    If somehow the place was like Paraguay, would your family have come? Would it have come, even if it was like Mexico? I'm not sure. Would you have miscegenated with an Squaw and given your half-breed daughters over to fully Indian males? Have you miscegenated?

    The English conquered a continent. What they did was hardly unique, except by scale. Japan experienced over 70% population replacement, after 150 AD. If you had any sense of propriety, you ought to be thanking them, rather than condemning them and looking to score points off of them.

    Indians loved nothing so much as killing each other. Even the Inuit committed their own genocide. I condemn neither, though they were certainly more barbaric peoples than colonial Euros, who gave them some measure of peace.

    Replies: @AP

  152. I thought Mongolia was a post-socialist growth champion that had been growing even faster than China up to 2012 or 14. Is it the Maddison Project database fooling me by giving me an especially low starting base, or is IMF overstating Mongol GDP in 1990?

    —–

    If the US could win a war with China (the Yankees will hopefully lose given the dysfunction), they would do to the Chinese economy what they couldn’t do in Germany right after WWII.

    Look up “Morgenthau Plan”. Something like this was done in 90s Russia, and this explains things in Ukraine or the Caucasus well. Chinese strategic planners should be warned, it’s a life or death struggle.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Yellowface Anon

    Quite likely sooner or later there will be Carribean/Berlin type of politico/military crisis over Taiwan, but it was apparent that neither Kruschev/Kennedy era soviets/americans really want global nuclear hot war, but psychological profile of some(?) CCP'ied Chinese may be kinda different - at least in words Mao was quite dissmisive of such threat regarding native population size, your own position seem quite eagerly nihilistic too.

    However modern India/CCP'íed China conflict treatment/resolution in reality seem to point that may be just posturing, cause there is not seen such eagerness of escalation into real nuclear conflict?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  153. @sher singh
    @songbird

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Canada#Demographics_and_classification

    Close to 10% of newborns are Native in Canada, and the largest % are on the Anglo prarie.
    Ironically, where Franco-catholics were banned from settling.

    Natives and Catholics both compete for the same supply of mouthwash and gasoline||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @AP

    Prairies are full of French speaking Metis.

  154. @Yevardian
    I don't know how anyone missed such an important literary event, but Hillary Clinton recently just published a sub Tom-Clancy thriller where a certain 'Secretary of State' saves the world, I was just reading a review of it in Private Eye (A British monthly, one of the few publications actually worth subscribing for, although I'm neither Anglo nor live in Britain, so most of their local news goes over my head), but the review had enough choice quotes to indicate it's utterly batshit.
    Nearly all the 'characters' are thinly veiled versions of current leaders, somehow she couldn't think of a less ridiculous name than 'Mr Peugeot' for Macron, or less generic than 'Ivanov' for Putin.

    https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Novel-Louise-Penny/dp/198217367X

    Before you check, it has already averaged a 4.5 star-rating from 10'000+ reviews on amazon, I guess I'm just out of step with the times.

    Replies: @Pericles, @songbird

    It is reassuring that there are grifters on the left too.

  155. @Yellowface Anon
    I thought Mongolia was a post-socialist growth champion that had been growing even faster than China up to 2012 or 14. Is it the Maddison Project database fooling me by giving me an especially low starting base, or is IMF overstating Mongol GDP in 1990?

    -----

    If the US could win a war with China (the Yankees will hopefully lose given the dysfunction), they would do to the Chinese economy what they couldn't do in Germany right after WWII.

    Look up "Morgenthau Plan". Something like this was done in 90s Russia, and this explains things in Ukraine or the Caucasus well. Chinese strategic planners should be warned, it's a life or death struggle.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Quite likely sooner or later there will be Carribean/Berlin type of politico/military crisis over Taiwan, but it was apparent that neither Kruschev/Kennedy era soviets/americans really want global nuclear hot war, but psychological profile of some(?) CCP’ied Chinese may be kinda different – at least in words Mao was quite dissmisive of such threat regarding native population size, your own position seem quite eagerly nihilistic too.

    However modern India/CCP’íed China conflict treatment/resolution in reality seem to point that may be just posturing, cause there is not seen such eagerness of escalation into real nuclear conflict?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    No one in their good sense will want nuclear war. Mao was only bluffing, and China then was a country of peasants that could recover thru high birth rates. I don't think CCP would risk total collapse and instead try keeping conflicts at a cold or conventional warfare level.

    The American strategy is to isolate and ultimately embargo China into taking dangerous risks, at least in the long term. And behind it, you should read what Kissinger has to say about demographics and geopolitical thinking - something has to be done to China & India, foes and allies alike. Vaccinations can't go really far. It's the US that is sliding into nihilism for the last 2 decades or so starting with the War on Terrorism.

    Replies: @songbird

  156. @sudden death
    @Yellowface Anon

    Poland is not using natgas for electricity production, their main&own source is native brown coal.

    Replies: @Aedib, @A123

    So, Germany should start to use coal again. Unintended consequences of the green ideology.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_Russia
    @Aedib

    "..Amid record electricity prices in Europe, Germany will not change its plans and will shut down three nuclear reactors and 11 coal-fired thermal power plants in December. The country will lose generation capacity by 6.4 GW..."
    From - https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2021/12/14/energorynok-es-napryagsya-v-razgar-zimy-germaniya-zakryvaet-aes-i-tes-ceny-rastut

    , @sudden death
    @Aedib

    idk, it seems it way easier to save a green face while quietly mumbling something about low CO2 emissions from nuclear plants and "temporarily" prolong at least those 3 remaining active and profitable nuclear reactors further past 2022 because of "an energy crisis" in Germany than start using more coal again.

  157. @Aedib
    @sudden death

    So, Germany should start to use coal again. Unintended consequences of the green ideology.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia, @sudden death

    “..Amid record electricity prices in Europe, Germany will not change its plans and will shut down three nuclear reactors and 11 coal-fired thermal power plants in December. The country will lose generation capacity by 6.4 GW…”
    From – https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2021/12/14/energorynok-es-napryagsya-v-razgar-zimy-germaniya-zakryvaet-aes-i-tes-ceny-rastut

  158. @sudden death
    @Yellowface Anon

    Quite likely sooner or later there will be Carribean/Berlin type of politico/military crisis over Taiwan, but it was apparent that neither Kruschev/Kennedy era soviets/americans really want global nuclear hot war, but psychological profile of some(?) CCP'ied Chinese may be kinda different - at least in words Mao was quite dissmisive of such threat regarding native population size, your own position seem quite eagerly nihilistic too.

    However modern India/CCP'íed China conflict treatment/resolution in reality seem to point that may be just posturing, cause there is not seen such eagerness of escalation into real nuclear conflict?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    No one in their good sense will want nuclear war. Mao was only bluffing, and China then was a country of peasants that could recover thru high birth rates. I don’t think CCP would risk total collapse and instead try keeping conflicts at a cold or conventional warfare level.

    The American strategy is to isolate and ultimately embargo China into taking dangerous risks, at least in the long term. And behind it, you should read what Kissinger has to say about demographics and geopolitical thinking – something has to be done to China & India, foes and allies alike. Vaccinations can’t go really far. It’s the US that is sliding into nihilism for the last 2 decades or so starting with the War on Terrorism.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    . Mao was only bluffing,
     
    Bluffing and going head-to-head with a nuclear power, where the commanding general wanted to nuke China. And not many years, after using nukes on the Japs, and firebombing dozens of cities.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  159. @Aedib
    @sudden death

    So, Germany should start to use coal again. Unintended consequences of the green ideology.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia, @sudden death

    idk, it seems it way easier to save a green face while quietly mumbling something about low CO2 emissions from nuclear plants and “temporarily” prolong at least those 3 remaining active and profitable nuclear reactors further past 2022 because of “an energy crisis” in Germany than start using more coal again.

  160. @Max Demian
    @iffen


    So do hasbara bots spreading propaganda and hatred of Muslims.
     
    A123's reflexively, categorically pro-(Zionist State that calls itself) Israel and anti-Muslim views do indeed appear caricature-like. And while far from certain that he is, in fact, a shill, I am not ready to entirely exclude such a possibility from the realm of probability.

    But does this comment of yours not contradict one that you had posted to this blog not long ago? Did you not, in the latter, state that while you initially and for some time were convinced that A123 was a Zionist shill, you subsequently, after acquiring greater familiarity with the fullness of his posted views-- both here at Unz and also at what you referred-to as "his website"-- concluded that his views were just too bizarre for him to be a mere shill?

    Replies: @A123

    Clearly, I am a Christian. I find Iffen’s Low-IQ accusations of “hasbara” quite bizzare.

    There are hasbra bots, and they are easily identified by one note posting. Clearly I am no such thing. For example,
    — My entire debate with German_Reader. I point out that the source of SJW Wokeness is Europe generally and Germany specifically. For some reason he keeps falsely blaming America for Germanic Wokeness inspired by 16 years of Merkel’s far Left leadership.
    — Similarly posting over the impending economic collapse in China being driven by Evergrande and other property developers does not fit any model of “hasbara”

    The simple fact is that Iffen’s failed #NeverTrump vendetta has driven him unto madness. No one can help him until he wants to get better. Lashing out at me is a symptom of his mental decline. I am not angry with him, and I forgive him.
    ___

    I see the Muslim Jihad against Christianity in it TRUE horror. Piles of dead bodies dead at Islamic hands. Some examples being, The Bataclan in Paris and the Pulse Night club in America.

    I look a little further and see additional Muslim massacres against other faiths, such as the Sbarro bombing in Jerusalem and the perpetual incursions into Hindu Kashmir. Of course, I support those who wish to get rid of Jihadist contamination. I am no friend of CCP Elite rule, however I have to admit when they get something right. Their treatment of infestation in China’s Western lands is obviously correct. Slaves labouring in sex separated camps have little opportunity to breed or pass on destructive false beliefs.

    This does not imply relations between Christians, Jews, Indians, and Han Chinese will be perfect. However, it does not take deep analysis to reach an obvious TRUTH. They will all be better off with out the blood horror of Islamic contamination opposing native society.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. The linked website, https://theconservativetreehouse.com/ , is not “mine”. I am simply giving it free publicity via the UR site feature.

  161. @Mike_from_Russia
    @Mike_from_Russia

    From - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044001
    Gas in Europe is trading at 1550+
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/image%20%2811%29_0.png

    It seems like it's just a new reality that you have to get used to.
    The whole modern industry is built on energy consumption, and energy has gone up a little so much. In a modest few times.
    Will the industry survive in these conditions? Big question.
    Here's another fun electricity price map.
    https://aftershock.news/sites/default/files/u17862/IMG_20211216_111228_576.jpg
    These are wholesale prices.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    It should be noted that these are “spot” prices for additional resources above contract.

    Places that have hedged well, V4 and Serbia, have very little volume at these prices. Germany hedged poorly and is now bearing the brunt of the price swings.

    PEACE 😇

  162. @sudden death
    @Yellowface Anon

    Poland is not using natgas for electricity production, their main&own source is native brown coal.

    Replies: @Aedib, @A123

    Poland is not using natgas for electricity production, their main&own source is native brown coal.

    Also, it appears that export grid capacity for Poland is already “maxed out”. Thus the local producers are often unable to sell additional energy into the EU market. Whether intentional or unintentional, Poland as a country is winning. Low energy prices help beat back inflation.

    PEACE 😇

  163. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird


    That’s what I gathered. Easy to see in the peace dividend.
     
    I'm not sure if you graph-reading skills are working alright, or you're getting the context. Argentina got rich by exporting grain and meat to Europe, something like a second Canada. Once the game was up during the Great Depression they switched to import substitution and stagnated. A few debt crises and they were done (and this is the economic side of the story).

    HBD-wise, the period with the greatest growth coincides with the greatest level of immigration (albeit with Sicilians and Spaniards).

    Replies: @songbird

    Was talking about the bulge after WW2, in comparison to Europe. To a certain extent, it probably is related to another wave of immigration. (though not totally) But they probably wouldn’t have come, if Buenos Aires had been firebombed or nuked.

    Argentina got rich by exporting grain and meat to Europe, something like a second Canada. Once the game was up during the Great Depression they switched to import substitution and stagnated.

    Mentioned before here, many times, but the story is not that simple. Their leaders for instance made stupendously corrupt trade deals with the English, which shafted Argentine sellers.

  164. @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    No one in their good sense will want nuclear war. Mao was only bluffing, and China then was a country of peasants that could recover thru high birth rates. I don't think CCP would risk total collapse and instead try keeping conflicts at a cold or conventional warfare level.

    The American strategy is to isolate and ultimately embargo China into taking dangerous risks, at least in the long term. And behind it, you should read what Kissinger has to say about demographics and geopolitical thinking - something has to be done to China & India, foes and allies alike. Vaccinations can't go really far. It's the US that is sliding into nihilism for the last 2 decades or so starting with the War on Terrorism.

    Replies: @songbird

    . Mao was only bluffing,

    Bluffing and going head-to-head with a nuclear power, where the commanding general wanted to nuke China. And not many years, after using nukes on the Japs, and firebombing dozens of cities.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    where the commanding general wanted to nuke China

     

    There's some misunderstanding. Korean War was started by Kim with Stalin's go-ahead. Mao was left out of the loop.

    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance. The Soviets gave air support but not ground troops in Korea (this was one of the fissures that later led to Sino-Soviet Split).

    Recall that Soviets shares a border with North Korea, and had the Americans escalated would have also escalated.

    The comment that Mao made about "losing 300 million Chinese in a nuclear war and still have 300 million left" was in Moscow 1957, to the Eastern Euro Communist leaders in front of Khrushchev.

    So it was not so much of a bluff against the Americans but to assert "dominance" in the Communist camp.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @songbird

  165. @AP
    @German_reader


    Yes, but the British did for roughly the same amount of time.
     
    True, but the British-ruled parts of India that were not also Portuguese-ruled are a lot poorer than Kerala. It is probably meaningful that the two parts of India with a history of having been ruled by Portugal are also the most developed and richest. The Indian state of Karnataka, on the same Malabar Coast as these states but without a history of having been ruled by Portugal, is a lot poorer and less developed than the former Portuguese territories.

    The Portuguese also ruled much of Sri Lanka for over 100 years, and the Catholicism that they brought is the largest Christian faith in Sri Lanka (there are 1.3 million Catholics and 300,000 Protestants in Sri Lanka). Sri Lanka is richer and more developed than India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Nepal.

    severe confirmation basis when it comes to Catholicism and ignore other factors
     
    It seems that the wealth and development of Portuguese ruled territory in South Asia are not coincidental. Their rule seems to have been benign and to have had good effect.

    (Macau is richer per capita than Hong Kong and Singapore but I suspect this is due to the casinos).

    Replies: @German_reader, @RSDB

    It is a funny thing about Sri Lanka– as far as I know, the Kandian Sinhalese never did very much persecution of Christians, but there were two groups who did, the Tamil kings of Jaffna, and the Dutch (who tried to suppress Catholicism specifically).

    Today many Tamils are Christian, roughly one in five (possibly a little more now as some converted during the recent war and that figure is from 1981), and, of the only descendants of the Dutch in Sri Lanka, the Dutch Burghers, every single one I have ever met has been Catholic.

    • Thanks: AP
  166. How many people have caught the Fed fibbing about U.S. inflation?

    Conservative Treehouse helpfully added Actual 2021 inflation (green) to a Fed chart where they maliciously omitted it: (1)

     

    The 6.8% inflation rate is just about where the dot in the “j” of the word projection would be located. That’s where we are currently.

    The SJW Elites with excess disposable income see this as a minor inconvenience. They genuinely do not understand the consequences to blue collar workers surviving paycheck-to-paycheck. Massive increases in gasoline price directly hit every personal fuel stop. Worse yet, every truck delivered product is going up to cover transportation costs.

    The DNC has unleashed Carter-flation 2.0. In the 80’s, the pro-MegaCorporation GOP(e) could not exploit that fully. Now, the MAGA GOP is ready to be the genuine Workers Party. All it will take is a few “honest vote counts” to render the Democrats into a permanent minority party.

    The alternative is civil disorder, or even Civil War. Main Street America is not willing to tolerate another stolen election.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    _____________________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/12/15/fed-chairman-jerome-powells-presser-should-alarm-everyone-on-main-street/

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123


    ...DNC has unleashed Carter-flation 2.0...
     
    Inflation always undermines the existing power structure. For elite it is as bad as losing a war. They ruling liberals didn't unleash it willingly, by 2021 they had no better alternative. The cumulative debts cannot be paid back - defaults or a jubilee could trigger a catastrophic chain reaction. The only alternative was to use inflation to devalue debts gradually - it buys time.

    The reason the Fed fibs about it is that they want the inflation benefits without the bad publicity. It usually doesn't work. This will get ugly. If MAGA was allowed to implement its full program in 2017-20 - or if Trump had more willpower to push it through - it could have been avoided: closed borders, domestic reindustrialization, growing economy, higher incomes - together that would have stabilized the system.

    But it didn't happen and by 2025 things could be too decrepit to try again.

    Replies: @A123

  167. @AP
    @songbird

    Now compare liveable territory versus tundra. Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England, further magnifying the discrepancy and highlighting the sad plight of Natives subjected to Anglo Calvinist settlement.

    The Saint Lawrence River valley is not much harsher than New England (due to lower elevation, milder than the mountainous parts). French settlers squeezing into here did not disappear the natives (this is why when I mentioned Native settlement I highlighted the 90,000 Indians and not the Inuit in the far North)

    Replies: @songbird

    Where are the Indians in Haiti?

    Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England

    I’m not sure that this is correct. New England has areas which are unarable or so acidic that they are arable for only very specific crops like cranberries, and it is fairly narrow and somewhat constrained by mountains.

    But, leave it aside, as my contention is that the Indians on both sides were primarily huntergatherers. Some in Quebec being entirely huntergatherers, with zero agriculture, others sowing snatch crops, while those in New England only sowed snatch crops, meaning that they did not stay in one place the whole year, while looking after their fields, but fished or hunted deer and gathered nuts.

    [MORE]

    It seems obvious that, according to the limits of this lifestyle, there would be many more hunter-gatherers in Quebec (much larger) than in (much smaller) New England. I’ll also add that disease probably ravaged agricultural communities more, due to larger population sizes.

    And I think you would expect that there would be a little more mixing where there was less farming and more hunter-gathering, due to women being more amendable to living in agricultural communities than in icy forests, such as in the rather large Boreal Forest part of Quebec. That is why Quebecois often might be about 1% Indian, though the percentage for Mayflower New Englanders would be less.

    Pocahontas (English colony, though not from NE) actually has living descendants today, though she did not live a long time, due to diseases that she was not evolved for.
    _____
    Anyway, I don’t think that either of us are expert enough to understand what the expected number of Indians should be. Probably it would take extracting DNA from a lot of old bones (not something Indians are amendable to) and complicated modeling to get to something close to the real number, if it is even possible.

    My main disagreement with you is in your moral condemnation of European settlement in America. To start with, I think your attitude is too flippant, and that this flippancy comes from your family being more recent transplants, with zero perceived interest in maintaining a traditional American identity (and perhaps no experience of an America with one), but more interest in elevating the newcomer.

    Meanwhile, though I don’t come of Protestant stock, or anything close to Mayflower descent, I have some older, though not very old roots in America. However, half of my family was well-integrated into a traditional American cultural identity, which took place while the WASPs were still in ascendancy, and where there was little room for political correctness. During this time, mainstream historians still laughed at Sacagawea and Americans (there was then such a cohesive identity of closely-related Euros) were too prideful to be susceptible to these attacks meant to elevate not Indians, but the latest invader.

    If somehow the place was like Paraguay, would your family have come? Would it have come, even if it was like Mexico? I’m not sure. Would you have miscegenated with an Squaw and given your half-breed daughters over to fully Indian males? Have you miscegenated?

    The English conquered a continent. What they did was hardly unique, except by scale. Japan experienced over 70% population replacement, after 150 AD. If you had any sense of propriety, you ought to be thanking them, rather than condemning them and looking to score points off of them.

    Indians loved nothing so much as killing each other. Even the Inuit committed their own genocide. I condemn neither, though they were certainly more barbaric peoples than colonial Euros, who gave them some measure of peace.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    Where are the Indians in Haiti?
     
    The pre-Columbian population in Haiti was tiny - in couple 10,000s, per genetic research. At least half probably died of disease.

    Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England


    New England has areas which are unarable or so acidic that they are arable for only very specific crops like cranberries, and it is fairly narrow and somewhat constrained by mountains.
     
    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State, which has lots of arable land and was once the heartland of the large Iroquois confederacy.

    Anyway, I don’t think that either of us are expert enough to understand what the expected number of Indians should be.
     
    Sure, but a discrepancy of that magnitude makes it hard to conclude that the French Catholics in Quebec didn't treat the natives a lot better than did the Calvinist Puritans.

    My main disagreement with you is in your moral condemnation of European settlement in America.
     
    French and Russians were fairly benign, Spaniards were on balance good (anything bad done by then was more than compensated for by the destruction of the evil demon-worshipping Aztec Empire), English were brutal and bad to the natives. That they then built a successful and prosperous society for themselves (and those who joined them) - more so than did the others in North America - speaks to the success of English governance and customs for their own people.

    your family being more recent transplants, with zero perceived interest in maintaining a traditional American identity
     
    I'd like America to remain as it is (well, until recently, but it still has a long way to fall), because it is a good place to live and my kids and grandkids will be here.

    If somehow the place was like Paraguay, would your family have come?
     
    They would have stayed in Western Europe. Some of them did.

    Ukrainians who moved to Paraguay became rich farmers and landowners though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Paraguay


    If you had any sense of propriety, you ought to be thanking them, rather than condemning them and looking to score points off of them.
     
    I condemn evil where I see it. Genocide is evil. I wouldn't have existed if Hitler hadn't invaded the USSR, an invasion that involved tens of millions of deaths.. Should I be thankful for that, as I should be thankful for Calvinists for wiping out much of a continent?

    Indians loved nothing so much as killing each other.
     
    I don't pretend they were better, of course. Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.

    Replies: @songbird

  168. @Max Demian
    @AP


    practicing gay bishops
     
    They still need to practice?

    Might not brazenly buggering be more apt?[1]

    Now, to segue from this tongue-in-cheek* interlude to offer an entirely earnest contribution that is related, if only tangentially, to the topic addressed by the former.

    (*But not-- decidedly, emphatically, unequivocally not-- tongue-in {other anatomical parts}...)

    The categorical, absolute, doctrinaire assertions that homoeroticism is without exception both innate as well as immutable; that it is equivalent to normative heterosexuality (much less to sacred matrimony[2]); and the conflation (both witting as well as unwitting) of involuntary feelings with voluntary behaviors (as well as the conflation of specific, objectively unwholesome acts with homoeroticism, or even homoerotic activity, per se[3]). These are all manifestly false and objectively harmful.

    @Songbird:


    ...beach bods...pretty girls...Long Beach...
     
    Anyone else reminded of the Rodney Dangerfield line from the Jacuzzi scene in the 1986 blockbuster Back to School,
    "Maybe you girls can help me straighten out my Longfellow."?

    To again segue from the jocular and raunchy to the earnest and chaste, I will offer another contention. This one, though, sure to be less popular, accepted or even palatable to the present audience than the previous.

    The Bikini vs. the Burka.

    This should be a false dichotomy. Between these opposite extremes, lies a vast expanse of moderation. If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    Dfordoom would almost certainly disagree. Incidentally, does anyone know what happened to the redoubtable DFD? His last last posted comment dates to August and his blog has disappeared.

    Numbered notes, for some elaboration and elucidation, below break.
    [1] It might incidentally be noted here that to infer from either this or any of my past comments evidence of categorical, unqualified condemnation of homoeroticism, per se on my part would be unfounded. A review of the relevant record would reveal that my criticism, and condemnations and any other attacks I have made within the area-in-question have been directed, rather clearly, emphatically, consistently and often painstakingly, against specific acts, behaviors, positions, views, attitudes, ideologies and movements. The paragraph that immediately follows the launching point for this note should serve as a prime illustration of the very point that the latter attempts to make.

    [2] Upon seeing a word such as sacred in any context such as this, it would seem that most people assume the writer or speaker is arguing from a specifically religious perspective. While such an assumption would generally have at least a high likelihood of being accurate, it need not be. Note that out of a total of seven definitions given for sacred in the first entry for the word at Dictionary [dot] com, a full four (the final four) have no inherent religious or other supernatural meaning or connotations.

    [3] An example of a homoerotic ideal that is at least considerably less unwholesome than the prevailing one, can be found at man2manalliance [dot] org. (GRAPHIC CONTENT)

    Replies: @songbird, @A123, @Barbarossa

    If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    From an HBD perspective, the bikini is much more sound. All of the genetic markers for optimum reproduction and mate selection are on display.

    From a culture perspective the bikini is a strong driver towards physical health in most societal subgroups. The fact that Leftoids were were driven to histrionics by a “Beach Body” ad is strong supporting evidence that bikinis are the correct choice.

    PEACE 😇

      

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/2706976/renee-somerfield-swimwear-collection/

  169. @A123
    @Mikel

    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump. He did exceedingly well with a non MAGA Senate impeding his efforts.

    You should feel more enthusiasm after the midterms. The negligence of Not-The-President Biden and his puppetmasters points to an impending blowout.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump.

    Definitely both.

    I very much doubted he would deport 11 million illegals but I never thought he would actually increase legal immigration*, or that he would make relations with Russia worse, or that he wouldn’t be able to end any single war.

    This article made me spill my coffee yesterday. You may not find it so funny but I recommend you read it:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-rights-sun-tzuicide/

    * Like Derbyshire, I am an anti-immigrationinst immigrant. What’s best for your adopted country is not necessarily what’s best for you personally.

    • Troll: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel

    So you wanted:

    -1- Trump to be Impeached by the Senate
    -2- MAGA to die
    -3- Unlimited Open [Muslim] Borders

    All of those things were inevitable consequences if Trump started a fight he was 100% sure to lose. Your stance in term of "outcome" is identical to Hillary Clinton's policy. Why are you backing her?

    Are you a loyal #Bidenista like Iffen? You sound like one.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    , @A123
    @Mikel


    [Trump] wouldn’t be able to end any single war.
     
    Trump Successfully Ended Two Wars!

    -1- Why are you lying about Trump's record?
    -2- Do you actually expect anyone to believe your obvious fabrication?
    _____

    Trump ended the Afghanistan War. He also avoided the SJW Milley fiasco that was the post-war formal withdrawal. The Pentagon intentionally killed American servicemen and abandoned thousands of Americans. If Trump had tried a withdrawal over Pentagon objections, how many would have been murdered?

    OBJECTIVE FACT -- Trump made 100% of the gains that could be achieved Afghanistan.
    _____

    Trump functionally ended American engagement in Syria. He moved American troops out of the kill sack between Assad's and Erdogan's forces. The death toll dropped to zero for months. The situation cannot be fully fixed until sociopath Khamenei and his Hezbollah terrorists depart, which was beyond Trump's control

    OBJECTIVE FACT -- Trump did 100% of everything that was *practically* achievable in Syria.
    ______

    Why do you refuse to praise Trump for Successfully Ending Two Wars?

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    , @A123
    @Mikel

    Mikel,

    Why are you TROLLING so much?

    I offer objective facts about Trump's ending of Wars in Afghanistan and Syria. You panic & retreat.

    If you really believe your #NeverTrump fiction, you should be willing to defend your attempt at deception.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  170. Finnish utility Teollisuuden Voima Oyj (TVO) has today received permission from the country’s Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority (STUK) to bring the Olkiluoto 3 (OL3) EPR to first criticality and conduct low-power tests.

    The regular electricity generation and commercial operation of the plant will start after the nuclear commissioning phase. TVO said OL3’s electricity production will now start at the end of January 2022, about one month earlier than previously anticipated. Regular electricity production is scheduled to begin in June.

    The Areva-Siemens consortium is constructing the OL3 plant under a fixed-price turnkey contract. They have joint liability for the contractual obligations until the end of the guarantee period of the unit. Construction of Olkiluoto 3 began in 2005. Completion of the reactor was originally scheduled for 2009, but the project has had various delays and setbacks.

    “We are now moving step by step with a safety-first attitude towards the moment we have waited for a long time,” said TVO Senior Vice President for Electricity Production Marjo Mustonen. “The preconditions for the startup of the reactor have been fulfilled, and soon we will be able to realise our promises on Finland’s greatest act for the climate.”

    https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/TVO-cleared-to-start-up-OL3-reactor

    😉

  171. @Yellowface Anon
    Speaking of Argentina's Whiteness:

    https://voxeu.org/sites/default/files/image/FromMay2014/campos%20fig1%2016%20dec.png

    Replies: @songbird, @Thulean Friend

    Argentina’s fall from grace is rather straightforward: They had a tiny population (comparatively speaking) living in a gigantic country. Argentina is also blessed with fantastic possibilities for agricultural production.

    They never had any serious industries. They got rich by exporting tons of agricultural stuff. A modern comparison would be Saudi Arabia in the 1970s. A big country with a (then) tiny population but huge amounts of oil. Before WWII, agriculture basically acted as oil for Argentinians.

    Around the mid-1930s, mechanisation really started to pick up. After the war, it boomed, in no small part because America became hugely mechanised, together with rapidly increasing productivity of midwestern farmers. This kept a lid food prices on a secular basis. Argentina, having no other industry to stand on, failed to find its footing ever since.

    • Agree: Aedib, Yellowface Anon
  172. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    Franco’s dictatorship
     
    I was just going to write this to AP.

    20th century Spain had for many years under a dictatorship, which had cynically exploited a rhetoric of "religion, conservatism" (while in some times of "moralist" Franco, a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes).

    After a pigeon in a Skinner box has been brutally electrocuted enough times, it will probably not "graduate" Skinner box, with positive associations to anything (even if only meaningless sounds) that had correlated to these electrocutions it had experienced in the Skinner box.


    tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans
     
    But in Russia and many postsoviet countries, there is not a "negative association" against previous politics, like in Spain after Franco. The worst electrocutions have been after the previous politics, rather than during them.

    That's the sense it was better before in Soviet times. It's from the 1970s, has been if not always becoming worse life, the national trajectories have been below most anyone's expectations for how life would be. Postsoviet realities, are a feeling of being on the trashcan of history.

    Whereas in Spain it was from the post-Franco, to 2008, a situation of improvement of living standards, access to EU, infrastructure investment, increasing international prestige. Spain's GDP was higher than the Russian Federation from 1990-2008, despite around multiple of 3,3 less people. Even just from the lines on the graph, you can infer how post-Franco stage had likely been experienced as positive by most of the population until 2008.

    Replies: @Mikel

    you can infer how post-Franco stage had likely been experienced as positive by most of the population until 2008.

    Not exactly. Spain grew economically very fast during the last decades of Franco’s dictatorship. In the late 50s he abandoned the autarkic economic policies favored by the fascist-traditionalist branch of his supporters and put Catholic Opus Dei technocrats in charge of the economy. Their liberalization policies made Spain’s growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan’s.

    By the mid-70s the Spanish per-capita GDP was 79% of the then Common Market’s. However, the international stagflation crisis began almost exactly after Franco’s death and hit Spain even harder than the rest of Western Europe. Spain would not reach those levels of per-capita GDP until the 90s.

    In the 80s in some parts of Spain the motto of “With Franco we used to live better” became popular, which some leftists changed to “Against Franco we used to live better”.

    in some times of “moralist” Franco, a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes

    I’ve seen you make this claim several times before but it’s surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention. It definitely didn’t happen in the most Catholic areas of the country. Many years ago I got to know a guy who had been in the brothel industry in the Basque Country since the 40s. He loved telling stories about the old times, including the police raids they had to fight against, but having lots of prostitutes was never something he mentioned. On the contrary, he said that he only began making real money when Latin American women finally arrived and the supply became stabilized. He was very fond of his Brazilian former employees and kept pictures of them partying with champagne.

    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated but this was a very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly forbidden. Even hardly erotic movies like Gilda were sanitized by the censors for the Spanish viewers. In order to see something like Marlon Brando’s Last Tango in Paris poor Spaniards had to cross the border to France. Ironically, prostitution in France is forbidden nowadays so things have reversed and lots of French cross the border now in the opposite direction to avail themselves of those services.

    Anyway, what probably happened is that in the very harsh post-war years, when there were actually some deaths from starvation in Spain, cities where Catholicism was not so strong, such as Madrid or Barcelona, must have seen an increase in prostitution and other illegal activities. Smuggling and counterfeiting were certainly widespread in those years.

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    make this claim several times before but it’s surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention

     

    Don't argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.

    Because my knowledge is only from open books in the book shop, sit on the sofa, and can remember pages.

    I don't read the books, so I don't have any deep knowledge of these topics. But I usually read a book for about 15 minutes, and can remember superficially knowledge these kind of facts. One of my hobbies is sitting in the book shop.

    So at best I can point to the pages of the book (if I can remember).

    This claim is from a book I cannot remember its name, but it is written by a British author (maybe Paul Preston?), sold in the book shop very prominently (very mainstream) where he wrote it as a high proportion of all Spanish women. If I remember the name, it will be numbers higher than you can believe (he claimed some hundreds of thousands of women).

    I can search for that if you want, later.

    -

    However, searching my old posts, and I could see I found this claim was supported by other history books, when I posted about it years later.

    This is a standard theme of the history book about Spain, 20th century. "Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone". (When population should be under a million).

    https://i.imgur.com/gYMIHSR.jpg


    https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/113/1/260/43723


    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated

     

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956. According to the history book, it was only banned in 1956, after visit by US cardinal Francis Spellman convinced Franco that such a ban could improve Spain's international reputation.

    https://i.imgur.com/DZSVdn5.jpg


    Spain’s growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan’s.

     

    Sure the final decade of Franco had strong growth. But from growth from poverty more than other Western European countries, except countries like Greece or Portugal.

    This comparison to Japan, is from low base effect.

    Because Spain was more poor than other European countries, then the growth rate is high.

    But the actual growth (as opposed to rate of growth) is the standard of the Western countries of this decade.

    Rate of growth per capita will not more than Greece. It's only in post-Franco Spain, that the economy accelerates from Greece in the per capita terms.

    https://i.imgur.com/3DQpRHx.jpg

    You can play with World Bank yourself https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2007&locations=ES-US-FR-IT-GR&start=1960


    very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly
     
    This is what the professional work of the historian is - to show these politicians as part of complex dynamical system. So where in Franco's Spain, the government presents "puritan" censorship outwardly, while there is a state sanction prostitution, unequally distributed against losing areas of the war. And where these are temporary reactions against politic opponents.

    So historians 20th century Spain at least have an interesting narrative, with such kind of "swings" in their culture in the second half of the century.

    https://i.imgur.com/Ka0P3ro.jpg

    Replies: @Mikel, @Coconuts

  173. @Mikel
    @A123


    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump.
     
    Definitely both.

    I very much doubted he would deport 11 million illegals but I never thought he would actually increase legal immigration*, or that he would make relations with Russia worse, or that he wouldn't be able to end any single war.

    This article made me spill my coffee yesterday. You may not find it so funny but I recommend you read it:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-rights-sun-tzuicide/

    * Like Derbyshire, I am an anti-immigrationinst immigrant. What's best for your adopted country is not necessarily what's best for you personally.

    Replies: @A123, @A123, @A123

    So you wanted:

    -1- Trump to be Impeached by the Senate
    -2- MAGA to die
    -3- Unlimited Open [Muslim] Borders

    All of those things were inevitable consequences if Trump started a fight he was 100% sure to lose. Your stance in term of “outcome” is identical to Hillary Clinton’s policy. Why are you backing her?

    Are you a loyal #Bidenista like Iffen? You sound like one.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  174. I’ve always been skeptical of the narrative that Russia was “lost for generations” to the West. The current bad moods are an ocean wide but an inch deep. Most of it due to unforced errors committed by the West. If that changes, so will the relations.

    Russia is a deeply eurocentric country at its core. That will not change.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Thulean Friend

    Don´t get confused. Russians started to view the current USA with a little bit of contempt and condescendence. Don’t confuse the fall of the Russian hostility to the Westerners as affinity to the West. More and more they are saying “hey look, those Americans are initiating their Yeltsin era”.

    , @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend

    Strange relations between Russia and Europe, are something structural. It's not related to peoples' opinions, especially of non-elite people who are just like passive, passengers.

    For example, one of the motives for the need of separation from Europe, is because the elite of Russia lives for part of the year in Europe.

    You need information opacity between the two sides, for the current system to operate. If there was information sharing between Russia and the EU, there would be a disaster for the ordinary life of the political class. Imagine the tax harmonization, let alone the police investigations. When currently, a lot of elite can be even using different names when living in the EU than when living in Russia.

    Probably less important, but on the management of the non-elite population, imagine if there was more open borders between Russia and the EU. * Young non-elite people in Russia would flood to the EU in an vast exodus, and result could be like Bulgaria, and a nightmare in Europe when they would be flooded by the open border immigrants from Russia.

    You can see similar kind of strange relations between Azerbaijan and Russia. Where Azerbaijan's political class invests and lives in Moscow, while they need promote anti-Russian views in the Azerbaijani media. Public opinion in Azerbaijan is probably felt as part of their bargaining power when they are in Russia, as will be the lack of integration of the security services. There is also an information opacity between Azerbaijan and Russia, and this creates more power for the rulers of Azerbaijan. This means the Azerbaijan elite has an independent powerbase, while they are living in Russia. (Although this is just amateur speculation from me from the sofa, who knows what exactly their strategies).

    -

    * Uzbekistan has suffered some of the latter relations with Russia, and the Uzbekistan government is always trying to avoid integration to Russia, primarily in order to reduce the emigration flows to Russia.

  175. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    you can infer how post-Franco stage had likely been experienced as positive by most of the population until 2008.
     
    Not exactly. Spain grew economically very fast during the last decades of Franco's dictatorship. In the late 50s he abandoned the autarkic economic policies favored by the fascist-traditionalist branch of his supporters and put Catholic Opus Dei technocrats in charge of the economy. Their liberalization policies made Spain's growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan's.

    By the mid-70s the Spanish per-capita GDP was 79% of the then Common Market's. However, the international stagflation crisis began almost exactly after Franco's death and hit Spain even harder than the rest of Western Europe. Spain would not reach those levels of per-capita GDP until the 90s.

    In the 80s in some parts of Spain the motto of "With Franco we used to live better" became popular, which some leftists changed to "Against Franco we used to live better".

    in some times of “moralist” Franco, a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes
     
    I've seen you make this claim several times before but it's surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention. It definitely didn't happen in the most Catholic areas of the country. Many years ago I got to know a guy who had been in the brothel industry in the Basque Country since the 40s. He loved telling stories about the old times, including the police raids they had to fight against, but having lots of prostitutes was never something he mentioned. On the contrary, he said that he only began making real money when Latin American women finally arrived and the supply became stabilized. He was very fond of his Brazilian former employees and kept pictures of them partying with champagne.

    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated but this was a very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly forbidden. Even hardly erotic movies like Gilda were sanitized by the censors for the Spanish viewers. In order to see something like Marlon Brando's Last Tango in Paris poor Spaniards had to cross the border to France. Ironically, prostitution in France is forbidden nowadays so things have reversed and lots of French cross the border now in the opposite direction to avail themselves of those services.

    Anyway, what probably happened is that in the very harsh post-war years, when there were actually some deaths from starvation in Spain, cities where Catholicism was not so strong, such as Madrid or Barcelona, must have seen an increase in prostitution and other illegal activities. Smuggling and counterfeiting were certainly widespread in those years.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    make this claim several times before but it’s surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention

    Don’t argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.

    Because my knowledge is only from open books in the book shop, sit on the sofa, and can remember pages.

    I don’t read the books, so I don’t have any deep knowledge of these topics. But I usually read a book for about 15 minutes, and can remember superficially knowledge these kind of facts. One of my hobbies is sitting in the book shop.

    So at best I can point to the pages of the book (if I can remember).

    This claim is from a book I cannot remember its name, but it is written by a British author (maybe Paul Preston?), sold in the book shop very prominently (very mainstream) where he wrote it as a high proportion of all Spanish women. If I remember the name, it will be numbers higher than you can believe (he claimed some hundreds of thousands of women).

    I can search for that if you want, later.

    However, searching my old posts, and I could see I found this claim was supported by other history books, when I posted about it years later.

    This is a standard theme of the history book about Spain, 20th century. “Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone”. (When population should be under a million).

    https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/113/1/260/43723

    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956. According to the history book, it was only banned in 1956, after visit by US cardinal Francis Spellman convinced Franco that such a ban could improve Spain’s international reputation.

    Spain’s growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan’s.

    Sure the final decade of Franco had strong growth. But from growth from poverty more than other Western European countries, except countries like Greece or Portugal.

    This comparison to Japan, is from low base effect.

    Because Spain was more poor than other European countries, then the growth rate is high.

    But the actual growth (as opposed to rate of growth) is the standard of the Western countries of this decade.

    Rate of growth per capita will not more than Greece. It’s only in post-Franco Spain, that the economy accelerates from Greece in the per capita terms.

    You can play with World Bank yourself https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2007&locations=ES-US-FR-IT-GR&start=1960

    very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly

    This is what the professional work of the historian is – to show these politicians as part of complex dynamical system. So where in Franco’s Spain, the government presents “puritan” censorship outwardly, while there is a state sanction prostitution, unequally distributed against losing areas of the war. And where these are temporary reactions against politic opponents.

    So historians 20th century Spain at least have an interesting narrative, with such kind of “swings” in their culture in the second half of the century.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    Don’t argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.
     
    No, the claim that "a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes" I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.

    “Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone”. (When population should be under a million).
     
    No, in 1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

    https://graficos.foro-ciudad.com/evolucion-poblacion/habitantes/1900/2020/1804-barcelona.png

    So I don't know how anyone managed to count the number of prostitutes in that city right after the end of the Spanish Civil War and with WWII in full rage in Europe but even that count of "epidemic" proportions gives us a percentage of only ~4%. And surely Barcelona, a former bastion of the Republic that attracted scores of impoverished immigrants, must have been one of the epicenters of the prostitution phenomenon in post-war Spain. Your own sources dismiss your initial claim.

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956.
     
    No, once again. Prostitution was never "officially sanctioned" in Francoist Spain. What happened was that a law from the Republic that prohibited prostitution was repealed and the activity itself became alegal because no law made it legal either but procuring prostitutes or profiting from their activity was always prosecuted with more or less zeal. In fact, even today prostitution is not fully legalized in Spain like it is in Germany or the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Coconuts
    @Dmitry

    I used to own a copy of this book:

    https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-un-inmenso-prostibulo-mujer-y-moralidad-durante-el-franquismo/9788485031481/1061845

    I gave it away so can't consult it now. It was a reprint of a report from 1943 by a government commission created to look into the issue of prostitution, iirc chaired by General Franco's wife. From what I recall it was a direct and straightforward report, increased prostitution was being caused by hunger, lack of education, the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows and war widows.

    I remember there being a discussion in the report about the legalisation of prostitution, with opinions from church fathers and theologians, Augustine and Aquinas were in favour of legal brothels (like maisons de tolerance in France) because without them they judged that sodomy and bestiality would break out and corrupt the polity. OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left. On a narrow topic I happened to know about in more depth than average it was clear that his line of interpretation always went one way, but imo it is also generally visible if Preston is read at the same time as his US equivalent, the historian Stanley Payne, who tends in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Mikel, @Dmitry

  176. @Yevardian
    I don't know how anyone missed such an important literary event, but Hillary Clinton recently just published a sub Tom-Clancy thriller where a certain 'Secretary of State' saves the world, I was just reading a review of it in Private Eye (A British monthly, one of the few publications actually worth subscribing for, although I'm neither Anglo nor live in Britain, so most of their local news goes over my head), but the review had enough choice quotes to indicate it's utterly batshit.
    Nearly all the 'characters' are thinly veiled versions of current leaders, somehow she couldn't think of a less ridiculous name than 'Mr Peugeot' for Macron, or less generic than 'Ivanov' for Putin.

    https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Novel-Louise-Penny/dp/198217367X

    Before you check, it has already averaged a 4.5 star-rating from 10'000+ reviews on amazon, I guess I'm just out of step with the times.

    Replies: @Pericles, @songbird

    Did you read that one where Merkel, after stepping down, becomes a detective?

    [MORE]

    What will Angela Merkel do now? The German David Safier (Bremen, 1966) has turned her into a novel character: retired, together with her husband, she tries to adapt to her new life in a small town in the mountains. Circumstances cause her to become an amateur detective, trying to solve a murder, much to the despair of Mike, her bodyguard. Miss Merkel. The case of the retired chancellor (Seix Barral) is among the best-selling books in Germany since it appeared last March. The shift to carry Merkel’s calm and analytical leadership style – heed her legendary clasping hands gesture, the Merkel diamond, Merkel’s rhombus, on the cover of the Spanish edition – and her scientific past from chemistry and quantum physics to a detective adventure in the field has captivated German readers, and there is even a television series in preparation. This Wednesday it will arrive in Spanish [my bold] bookstores.

    “When I saw the possible successors who were vying for their position in the party, a certain nostalgia invaded me – says the author by video call, from his home in Bremen -. ‘Get your claws out of there!’ No one can match her, Merkel is by far the most popular policy in Germany for a long time. I was wondering: what is she going to do next? Surely she will not remain in the administration. And I don’t see her entering a company like, for example, the Russian leaders do with Gazprom. Until, watching an episode of Lieutenant Colombo, I had the enlightenment: I would solve murders! ”. “Like Colombo,” he continues, “Merkel is very intelligent but people tend to underestimate her. Her political rivals looked down on her, even in her own party. I have imagined that he returns to her region of origin and there she becomes a detective ”.

    https://today.in-24.com/world/389033.html

  177. @Thulean Friend
    https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1471487191943684097

    I've always been skeptical of the narrative that Russia was "lost for generations" to the West. The current bad moods are an ocean wide but an inch deep. Most of it due to unforced errors committed by the West. If that changes, so will the relations.

    Russia is a deeply eurocentric country at its core. That will not change.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Dmitry

    Don´t get confused. Russians started to view the current USA with a little bit of contempt and condescendence. Don’t confuse the fall of the Russian hostility to the Westerners as affinity to the West. More and more they are saying “hey look, those Americans are initiating their Yeltsin era”.

  178. @Thulean Friend
    https://twitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1471487191943684097

    I've always been skeptical of the narrative that Russia was "lost for generations" to the West. The current bad moods are an ocean wide but an inch deep. Most of it due to unforced errors committed by the West. If that changes, so will the relations.

    Russia is a deeply eurocentric country at its core. That will not change.

    Replies: @Aedib, @Dmitry

    Strange relations between Russia and Europe, are something structural. It’s not related to peoples’ opinions, especially of non-elite people who are just like passive, passengers.

    For example, one of the motives for the need of separation from Europe, is because the elite of Russia lives for part of the year in Europe.

    You need information opacity between the two sides, for the current system to operate. If there was information sharing between Russia and the EU, there would be a disaster for the ordinary life of the political class. Imagine the tax harmonization, let alone the police investigations. When currently, a lot of elite can be even using different names when living in the EU than when living in Russia.

    Probably less important, but on the management of the non-elite population, imagine if there was more open borders between Russia and the EU. * Young non-elite people in Russia would flood to the EU in an vast exodus, and result could be like Bulgaria, and a nightmare in Europe when they would be flooded by the open border immigrants from Russia.

    You can see similar kind of strange relations between Azerbaijan and Russia. Where Azerbaijan’s political class invests and lives in Moscow, while they need promote anti-Russian views in the Azerbaijani media. Public opinion in Azerbaijan is probably felt as part of their bargaining power when they are in Russia, as will be the lack of integration of the security services. There is also an information opacity between Azerbaijan and Russia, and this creates more power for the rulers of Azerbaijan. This means the Azerbaijan elite has an independent powerbase, while they are living in Russia. (Although this is just amateur speculation from me from the sofa, who knows what exactly their strategies).

    * Uzbekistan has suffered some of the latter relations with Russia, and the Uzbekistan government is always trying to avoid integration to Russia, primarily in order to reduce the emigration flows to Russia.

  179. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    make this claim several times before but it’s surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention

     

    Don't argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.

    Because my knowledge is only from open books in the book shop, sit on the sofa, and can remember pages.

    I don't read the books, so I don't have any deep knowledge of these topics. But I usually read a book for about 15 minutes, and can remember superficially knowledge these kind of facts. One of my hobbies is sitting in the book shop.

    So at best I can point to the pages of the book (if I can remember).

    This claim is from a book I cannot remember its name, but it is written by a British author (maybe Paul Preston?), sold in the book shop very prominently (very mainstream) where he wrote it as a high proportion of all Spanish women. If I remember the name, it will be numbers higher than you can believe (he claimed some hundreds of thousands of women).

    I can search for that if you want, later.

    -

    However, searching my old posts, and I could see I found this claim was supported by other history books, when I posted about it years later.

    This is a standard theme of the history book about Spain, 20th century. "Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone". (When population should be under a million).

    https://i.imgur.com/gYMIHSR.jpg


    https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/113/1/260/43723


    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated

     

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956. According to the history book, it was only banned in 1956, after visit by US cardinal Francis Spellman convinced Franco that such a ban could improve Spain's international reputation.

    https://i.imgur.com/DZSVdn5.jpg


    Spain’s growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan’s.

     

    Sure the final decade of Franco had strong growth. But from growth from poverty more than other Western European countries, except countries like Greece or Portugal.

    This comparison to Japan, is from low base effect.

    Because Spain was more poor than other European countries, then the growth rate is high.

    But the actual growth (as opposed to rate of growth) is the standard of the Western countries of this decade.

    Rate of growth per capita will not more than Greece. It's only in post-Franco Spain, that the economy accelerates from Greece in the per capita terms.

    https://i.imgur.com/3DQpRHx.jpg

    You can play with World Bank yourself https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2007&locations=ES-US-FR-IT-GR&start=1960


    very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly
     
    This is what the professional work of the historian is - to show these politicians as part of complex dynamical system. So where in Franco's Spain, the government presents "puritan" censorship outwardly, while there is a state sanction prostitution, unequally distributed against losing areas of the war. And where these are temporary reactions against politic opponents.

    So historians 20th century Spain at least have an interesting narrative, with such kind of "swings" in their culture in the second half of the century.

    https://i.imgur.com/Ka0P3ro.jpg

    Replies: @Mikel, @Coconuts

    Don’t argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.

    No, the claim that “a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes” I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.

    “Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone”. (When population should be under a million).

    No, in 1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

    So I don’t know how anyone managed to count the number of prostitutes in that city right after the end of the Spanish Civil War and with WWII in full rage in Europe but even that count of “epidemic” proportions gives us a percentage of only ~4%. And surely Barcelona, a former bastion of the Republic that attracted scores of impoverished immigrants, must have been one of the epicenters of the prostitution phenomenon in post-war Spain. Your own sources dismiss your initial claim.

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956.

    No, once again. Prostitution was never “officially sanctioned” in Francoist Spain. What happened was that a law from the Republic that prohibited prostitution was repealed and the activity itself became alegal because no law made it legal either but procuring prostitutes or profiting from their activity was always prosecuted with more or less zeal. In fact, even today prostitution is not fully legalized in Spain like it is in Germany or the Netherlands.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

     

    Lol this is pedantic, and I knew when I was writing it that I should write - "Around a million". So either way, the claim would imply 4% of the Barcelona women at any time. Which is a crazy high number, and actually matches what I originally wrote.

    I'm not commenting whether this is true or not. Just that it matches what I have read in a bookshop. I also remember reading about in Zaragoza though (whereas here only about Barcelona).


    once again. Prostitution was never “officially sanctioned” in Francoist
     
    Whichever exact phrase, what was written in your post does not match the history book text, which says it was not illegal until 1956, and official brothels were under government supervision. I'm just referring to the text in the history book, as my only information comes from what I read briefly sitting in a bookshop.

    There was actually a legal decision of 1941, in which they reject the prohibition of prostitution. https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:697822/

    https://i.imgur.com/JNYvaoa.jpg


    No, the claim that “a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes

     

    I think the book where I saw these claims is "Mujeres caídas: prostitutas legales y clandestinas en el franquismo" (2003), as I read this in a Spanish bookshop.

    I was searching for the last 15 minutes online for this specifically, and I can access for free books by the author's father (a nuclear scientist). But maybe someone (like German Reader) can access it through the university.

    It was not Paul Preston (searching his books, he writes there was a "massive increase in prostitution under Franco").

    There is an article Wikipedia Spanish about the author.
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirta_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez


    <blockquote I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.
     It's a very common narrative of the history books and also historians write "prostitution was legal".

    So my amateur writing that prostitution was legal under Franco, matches the words of professional historians - and I am a person who has not even read history books fully, although the legally registered number is low.

    So if you want to argue about the phrasing of the words (legal or not), then I am not the one you can blame.

    https://i.imgur.com/JfcEv8d.jpg

    https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Fear+and+Progress%3A+Ordinary+Lives+in+Franco%27s+Spain%2C+1939+1975-p-9781405133166

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel, @Pericles

  180. @Mikel
    @AP


    This is indeed fascinating. I also wonder why.
     
    Well, there's always multiple factors at play but the most important part of the explanation to this mystery is not very difficult to unravel. Just like 60 years of communism inoculated some Europeans against leftist fantasies, 40 years of clerical-nationalism inoculated others against right-wing extremism and to a large extent against religion itself.

    At the end of Franco's dictatorship and return to democracy being right-wing was very uncool, especially among younger people. In Italy, by contrast, being neo-fascist was transgressive and thus attractive for the young.

    What is surprising is how long these tendencies persist after the facts that provoked them. That suggests that Eastern Europeans may well never catch-up in wokeness to Westerners. In fact, that is what I perceive with my Polish son and his friends, all in their twenties. They are quite tolerant in sexual matters, including towards the LGB stuff, but otherwise they are very right-wing, particularly in racial and immigration matters. Religion is at best performative, I don't know that any of them is an observant Catholic.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Agathoklis

    I have also attributed the long Franco dictatorship as the cause of Spain’s mad rush to hyper-liberalism compared to Italy. But how does that explain Greece? Greece also had long periods of so-called conservative ‘reactionary’ rule, even a dictatorship for seven years, but it remains more socially conservative than Spain. So the following schema: conservative, reactionary leads to hyper-liberalism
    and liberalism leads to conservative does not really hold.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Agathoklis

    Yes, any simplistic mechanism for social phenomena is always bound to fail in some cases. But I don't think that Greece experienced anything like the religious-political indoctrination that pounded Spaniards during 40 long years, along with a deep isolation from the rest of the Western world. Greece ended WWII fully in the camp of the victors, receiving, if I'm not mistaken, Marshall Plan funds from the very beginning. Spain was much more of a pariah state, condemned by the UN, and at the end of the dictatorship people had a big desire to enjoy the kind of life led by other Europeans that had been denied to them.

    With that said, I don't think there's any shortage of hardcore leftists in Greece either.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Agathoklis

    Recent Greek history, especially as regards the fear they have of Turkey explains this very well. Greek nationhood and freedom was a liberal cause. Lord Byron died in support of it. This creates a more widely held sympathy with Greek continuity and conservatism than somewhere like Spain, where the dominant nationalism is also, seen by the left, as an oppressor one.

    Greece is like Estonia, Israel and even Finland. Spain is more like Russia, Germany and Sweden, in this regard. Some nationalisms were historically rooted in progressive movements, other were not, or have had that sheen scratched off them by other history.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

  181. @Mikel
    @A123


    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump.
     
    Definitely both.

    I very much doubted he would deport 11 million illegals but I never thought he would actually increase legal immigration*, or that he would make relations with Russia worse, or that he wouldn't be able to end any single war.

    This article made me spill my coffee yesterday. You may not find it so funny but I recommend you read it:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-rights-sun-tzuicide/

    * Like Derbyshire, I am an anti-immigrationinst immigrant. What's best for your adopted country is not necessarily what's best for you personally.

    Replies: @A123, @A123, @A123

    [Trump] wouldn’t be able to end any single war.

    Trump Successfully Ended Two Wars!

    -1- Why are you lying about Trump’s record?
    -2- Do you actually expect anyone to believe your obvious fabrication?
    _____

    Trump ended the Afghanistan War. He also avoided the SJW Milley fiasco that was the post-war formal withdrawal. The Pentagon intentionally killed American servicemen and abandoned thousands of Americans. If Trump had tried a withdrawal over Pentagon objections, how many would have been murdered?

    OBJECTIVE FACT — Trump made 100% of the gains that could be achieved Afghanistan.
    _____

    Trump functionally ended American engagement in Syria. He moved American troops out of the kill sack between Assad’s and Erdogan’s forces. The death toll dropped to zero for months. The situation cannot be fully fixed until sociopath Khamenei and his Hezbollah terrorists depart, which was beyond Trump’s control

    OBJECTIVE FACT — Trump did 100% of everything that was *practically* achievable in Syria.
    ______

    Why do you refuse to praise Trump for Successfully Ending Two Wars?

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    • Troll: Mikel
  182. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    make this claim several times before but it’s surely a huge exaggeration, if not an outright invention

     

    Don't argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.

    Because my knowledge is only from open books in the book shop, sit on the sofa, and can remember pages.

    I don't read the books, so I don't have any deep knowledge of these topics. But I usually read a book for about 15 minutes, and can remember superficially knowledge these kind of facts. One of my hobbies is sitting in the book shop.

    So at best I can point to the pages of the book (if I can remember).

    This claim is from a book I cannot remember its name, but it is written by a British author (maybe Paul Preston?), sold in the book shop very prominently (very mainstream) where he wrote it as a high proportion of all Spanish women. If I remember the name, it will be numbers higher than you can believe (he claimed some hundreds of thousands of women).

    I can search for that if you want, later.

    -

    However, searching my old posts, and I could see I found this claim was supported by other history books, when I posted about it years later.

    This is a standard theme of the history book about Spain, 20th century. "Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone". (When population should be under a million).

    https://i.imgur.com/gYMIHSR.jpg


    https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/113/1/260/43723


    Prostitution in Spain was only legalized in the 80s. Until then it was more or less tolerated

     

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956. According to the history book, it was only banned in 1956, after visit by US cardinal Francis Spellman convinced Franco that such a ban could improve Spain's international reputation.

    https://i.imgur.com/DZSVdn5.jpg


    Spain’s growth in the 60s the second highest in the world, after Japan’s.

     

    Sure the final decade of Franco had strong growth. But from growth from poverty more than other Western European countries, except countries like Greece or Portugal.

    This comparison to Japan, is from low base effect.

    Because Spain was more poor than other European countries, then the growth rate is high.

    But the actual growth (as opposed to rate of growth) is the standard of the Western countries of this decade.

    Rate of growth per capita will not more than Greece. It's only in post-Franco Spain, that the economy accelerates from Greece in the per capita terms.

    https://i.imgur.com/3DQpRHx.jpg

    You can play with World Bank yourself https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2007&locations=ES-US-FR-IT-GR&start=1960


    very puritan country where any kind of nudity was strictly
     
    This is what the professional work of the historian is - to show these politicians as part of complex dynamical system. So where in Franco's Spain, the government presents "puritan" censorship outwardly, while there is a state sanction prostitution, unequally distributed against losing areas of the war. And where these are temporary reactions against politic opponents.

    So historians 20th century Spain at least have an interesting narrative, with such kind of "swings" in their culture in the second half of the century.

    https://i.imgur.com/Ka0P3ro.jpg

    Replies: @Mikel, @Coconuts

    I used to own a copy of this book:

    https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-un-inmenso-prostibulo-mujer-y-moralidad-durante-el-franquismo/9788485031481/1061845

    I gave it away so can’t consult it now. It was a reprint of a report from 1943 by a government commission created to look into the issue of prostitution, iirc chaired by General Franco’s wife. From what I recall it was a direct and straightforward report, increased prostitution was being caused by hunger, lack of education, the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows and war widows.

    I remember there being a discussion in the report about the legalisation of prostitution, with opinions from church fathers and theologians, Augustine and Aquinas were in favour of legal brothels (like maisons de tolerance in France) because without them they judged that sodomy and bestiality would break out and corrupt the polity. OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left. On a narrow topic I happened to know about in more depth than average it was clear that his line of interpretation always went one way, but imo it is also generally visible if Preston is read at the same time as his US equivalent, the historian Stanley Payne, who tends in the opposite direction.

    • Thanks: Mikel
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left.
     
    He's probably pretty biased. I read Julius Ruiz, Paracuellos: The Elimination of the Fifth Column in Republican Madrid During the Spanish Civil War (about the major atrocity committed by the Republicans in the civil war, imo not that polemical a book, on some level one can even understand why the Republicans did what they did), and to me the criticism of Preston's interpretation of that event seemed quite devastating, like Preston went out of his way to put the most positive spin possible on the actions of Spanish left-wingers (iirc ironically even agreeing with Spanish right-wingers on the alleged role of NKVD agents in the massacre, for which there doesn't seem to be much evidence).

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @songbird
    @Coconuts


    the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows
     
    Don't want to seem crass, but I think it is true that they were probably more r-selected.

    OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.
     
    Up until that time, this was peak population in Europe. More and bigger cities. More nodes of trade, greater wealth, and volume of trade. The Age of Exploration connected the world, bringing the horrible New World disease syphilis to the Old, where there were no adaptations against it.

    Probably, at least up until that time, it was the peak time for STDs.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Mikel
    @Coconuts

    Thanks. That surely looks like a credible and very detailed report of the facts, collected by people on the ground in each provincial capital.

    Scans of some pages of the report can be found here: https://www.todocoleccion.net/libros-segunda-mano/informe-sobre-moralidad-publica-espana-memoria-1942-edicion-reservada-autoridades~x60672871

    One of them shows that in 1942 in Barcelona 1,144 registered prostitutes plus 1,400 clandestine ones were counted.

    Dmitry's proposition looks untenable. I don't believe that in any European country a "high proportion of women" (~25%+) ever became prostitutes in modern times and probably anywhere else in the world. The burden of proof certainly lies with anyone asserting the contrary.

    Preston's bias is well known. He became a media darling in post-Franco Spain, where a seemingly erudite British "hispanist" confirming how bad the fallen regime had been was always welcome.

    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco
     
    I can't say much about this topic, as I only read about Spain in the bookshop to improve my Spanish language skill. I don't really know much about Spanish history, beyond skimming a few pages in the bookshop.

    Still Mikel needs to argue less with me, and more with whatever they write about Spanish history in the bookshops, because I just remember those books.

    What I found interesting about Paul Preston, is that his books are promoted in the book shops in Madrid, as the most authoritative historian, even while they are translated to Spanish from English.

    So when I was in the bookshop in Madrid and trying to read Spanish history books, the most promoted ones can be English authors. And Paul Preston is one of the main books I saw in Madrid bookshops.

    -

    If I remember talking about this in the forum before. Because I remember Paul Preston books are the most promoted 20th century Spanish history books in the Spanish bookshops.

    And I didn't want to read Spanish books with an English author, so I was searching bookshops in Madrid, trying to find something to buy from a Spanish historian.

    Scary that I about wrote this here on the forum 3,2 years ago. It feels like I wrote it a few hours ago. (Our life and youth is dying so fast).
    https://i.imgur.com/J9i261Z.jpg

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/petre-tutea-on-russians/#comment-2598018

    Replies: @Yevardian

  183. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @Dmitry

    I used to own a copy of this book:

    https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-un-inmenso-prostibulo-mujer-y-moralidad-durante-el-franquismo/9788485031481/1061845

    I gave it away so can't consult it now. It was a reprint of a report from 1943 by a government commission created to look into the issue of prostitution, iirc chaired by General Franco's wife. From what I recall it was a direct and straightforward report, increased prostitution was being caused by hunger, lack of education, the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows and war widows.

    I remember there being a discussion in the report about the legalisation of prostitution, with opinions from church fathers and theologians, Augustine and Aquinas were in favour of legal brothels (like maisons de tolerance in France) because without them they judged that sodomy and bestiality would break out and corrupt the polity. OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left. On a narrow topic I happened to know about in more depth than average it was clear that his line of interpretation always went one way, but imo it is also generally visible if Preston is read at the same time as his US equivalent, the historian Stanley Payne, who tends in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Mikel, @Dmitry

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left.

    He’s probably pretty biased. I read Julius Ruiz, Paracuellos: The Elimination of the Fifth Column in Republican Madrid During the Spanish Civil War (about the major atrocity committed by the Republicans in the civil war, imo not that polemical a book, on some level one can even understand why the Republicans did what they did), and to me the criticism of Preston’s interpretation of that event seemed quite devastating, like Preston went out of his way to put the most positive spin possible on the actions of Spanish left-wingers (iirc ironically even agreeing with Spanish right-wingers on the alleged role of NKVD agents in the massacre, for which there doesn’t seem to be much evidence).

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader

    I have a book by Julius Ruiz called 'El Terror Rojo', a Spanish translation of this one:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Terror-Spanish-Civil-Revolutionary-ebook/dp/B00JXIIEVC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Julius+Ruiz&qid=1639696851&sr=8-1

    I guess he produced the Paracuellos book afterwards as a more in depth case study. His other work I know was about the Francoist repression in Madrid after the end of the war, I don't remember noticing any obvious bias in them, he seems like a careful historian.

    The thing I noticed Preston doing was relying on the judgements of the Italian general Mario Roatta, about the battle of Guadalajara and Franco's generalship in general, very likely because they are negative assessments. But Roatta was the guy who wrote the failed Italian plan for Guadalajara, and was also in command when it was badly executed, so not a reliable source. Using him seemed clearly dubious, unless Preston had been deliberately looking for negative views.

    Replies: @German_reader

  184. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry

    I used to own a copy of this book:

    https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-un-inmenso-prostibulo-mujer-y-moralidad-durante-el-franquismo/9788485031481/1061845

    I gave it away so can't consult it now. It was a reprint of a report from 1943 by a government commission created to look into the issue of prostitution, iirc chaired by General Franco's wife. From what I recall it was a direct and straightforward report, increased prostitution was being caused by hunger, lack of education, the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows and war widows.

    I remember there being a discussion in the report about the legalisation of prostitution, with opinions from church fathers and theologians, Augustine and Aquinas were in favour of legal brothels (like maisons de tolerance in France) because without them they judged that sodomy and bestiality would break out and corrupt the polity. OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left. On a narrow topic I happened to know about in more depth than average it was clear that his line of interpretation always went one way, but imo it is also generally visible if Preston is read at the same time as his US equivalent, the historian Stanley Payne, who tends in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Mikel, @Dmitry

    the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows

    Don’t want to seem crass, but I think it is true that they were probably more r-selected.

    OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Up until that time, this was peak population in Europe. More and bigger cities. More nodes of trade, greater wealth, and volume of trade. The Age of Exploration connected the world, bringing the horrible New World disease syphilis to the Old, where there were no adaptations against it.

    Probably, at least up until that time, it was the peak time for STDs.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Don’t want to seem crass, but I think it is true that they were probably more r-selected.
     
    It's possible with some of the more politically committed, but the large majority of the Republican army was made up of conscripts (I think they outnumbered volunteers around 9-1), so some were probably unlucky. From what I have read it would have been better for your family after the war if you managed to get captured and then re-conscripted into the Nationalist Army, because the veterans of the National Army were better provided for. This seems to have happened to quite large numbers.

    Up until that time, this was peak population in Europe. More and bigger cities. More nodes of trade, greater wealth, and volume of trade. The Age of Exploration connected the world, bringing the horrible New World disease syphilis to the Old, where there were no adaptations against it.
     
    Yes, this would definitely explain why there was this change of opinion and why there were campaigns against prostitution in the Italy and Spain in the 18th C.. The old approach would have become much more hazardous.
  185. I solemnly swear before God and everybody that I will never badmouth R. Unz again if he will only give us an idiot tab to the right of Hide Thread.

  186. Some have speculated that suicide is an evolved group defense for eliminating genetic load. I don’t know whether that is the case or not, but it has inspired me to speculate along a different line:

    We judge people by their symmetry, and there is some kind of mechanism whereby crazy people are much more apt to modify their bodies in such a way that it draws attention to their lack of symmetry. Might be a nose ring or tattoo or a buzzcut on a woman, or long hair on a man.
    _________
    In France in 1256, Louis IX , made a decree about banishing prostitutes who had signs of STDs.

    I don’t know how effective something like that was back then, but I do think it would be a brilliant move to adopt it today, and create chiefdoms based on different STDs. Would remove a lot of the undesirables.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @songbird

    Listen Amerimutt, show me one culture where Gods have short hair & cut hair isn't a sign of serfs.
    Cutting someone's hair & blackening their face is an age old sign of shame/public humiliation.

    Replies: @songbird

  187. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry

    I used to own a copy of this book:

    https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-un-inmenso-prostibulo-mujer-y-moralidad-durante-el-franquismo/9788485031481/1061845

    I gave it away so can't consult it now. It was a reprint of a report from 1943 by a government commission created to look into the issue of prostitution, iirc chaired by General Franco's wife. From what I recall it was a direct and straightforward report, increased prostitution was being caused by hunger, lack of education, the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows and war widows.

    I remember there being a discussion in the report about the legalisation of prostitution, with opinions from church fathers and theologians, Augustine and Aquinas were in favour of legal brothels (like maisons de tolerance in France) because without them they judged that sodomy and bestiality would break out and corrupt the polity. OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left. On a narrow topic I happened to know about in more depth than average it was clear that his line of interpretation always went one way, but imo it is also generally visible if Preston is read at the same time as his US equivalent, the historian Stanley Payne, who tends in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Mikel, @Dmitry

    Thanks. That surely looks like a credible and very detailed report of the facts, collected by people on the ground in each provincial capital.

    Scans of some pages of the report can be found here: https://www.todocoleccion.net/libros-segunda-mano/informe-sobre-moralidad-publica-espana-memoria-1942-edicion-reservada-autoridades~x60672871

    One of them shows that in 1942 in Barcelona 1,144 registered prostitutes plus 1,400 clandestine ones were counted.

    Dmitry’s proposition looks untenable. I don’t believe that in any European country a “high proportion of women” (~25%+) ever became prostitutes in modern times and probably anywhere else in the world. The burden of proof certainly lies with anyone asserting the contrary.

    Preston’s bias is well known. He became a media darling in post-Franco Spain, where a seemingly erudite British “hispanist” confirming how bad the fallen regime had been was always welcome.

    • Agree: Coconuts
  188. @songbird
    @Coconuts


    the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows
     
    Don't want to seem crass, but I think it is true that they were probably more r-selected.

    OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.
     
    Up until that time, this was peak population in Europe. More and bigger cities. More nodes of trade, greater wealth, and volume of trade. The Age of Exploration connected the world, bringing the horrible New World disease syphilis to the Old, where there were no adaptations against it.

    Probably, at least up until that time, it was the peak time for STDs.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Don’t want to seem crass, but I think it is true that they were probably more r-selected.

    It’s possible with some of the more politically committed, but the large majority of the Republican army was made up of conscripts (I think they outnumbered volunteers around 9-1), so some were probably unlucky. From what I have read it would have been better for your family after the war if you managed to get captured and then re-conscripted into the Nationalist Army, because the veterans of the National Army were better provided for. This seems to have happened to quite large numbers.

    Up until that time, this was peak population in Europe. More and bigger cities. More nodes of trade, greater wealth, and volume of trade. The Age of Exploration connected the world, bringing the horrible New World disease syphilis to the Old, where there were no adaptations against it.

    Yes, this would definitely explain why there was this change of opinion and why there were campaigns against prostitution in the Italy and Spain in the 18th C.. The old approach would have become much more hazardous.

    • Thanks: songbird
  189. @Agathoklis
    @Mikel

    I have also attributed the long Franco dictatorship as the cause of Spain's mad rush to hyper-liberalism compared to Italy. But how does that explain Greece? Greece also had long periods of so-called conservative 'reactionary' rule, even a dictatorship for seven years, but it remains more socially conservative than Spain. So the following schema: conservative, reactionary leads to hyper-liberalism
    and liberalism leads to conservative does not really hold.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Triteleia Laxa

    Yes, any simplistic mechanism for social phenomena is always bound to fail in some cases. But I don’t think that Greece experienced anything like the religious-political indoctrination that pounded Spaniards during 40 long years, along with a deep isolation from the rest of the Western world. Greece ended WWII fully in the camp of the victors, receiving, if I’m not mistaken, Marshall Plan funds from the very beginning. Spain was much more of a pariah state, condemned by the UN, and at the end of the dictatorship people had a big desire to enjoy the kind of life led by other Europeans that had been denied to them.

    With that said, I don’t think there’s any shortage of hardcore leftists in Greece either.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @Mikel

    Greece end WWII with a three year civil war. At least initially, the Leftist rebels had significant popular support but this quickly waned as people grew tired of conflict. Thereafter, the successive Right wing governments censored the arts. I agree, it was probably not as bad as Spain but there was repression. Some of it justified. However, we had a military dictatorship beginning from 1967. It was only after the collapse of that regime in 1974 (mostly due to the debacle in Cyprus), that liberalising forces began and really accelerated in the 1980s. Despite this, and as you say, a strong radical Left, the people have largely remained some of the most socially 'conservative' in Europe. Even Leftists tend to be socially conservative e.g. pretending to be radical but really just living like typical petite bourgeois.

    I think you ignore the role of regionalism in Spain causing it to be the outlier in the Med. I know Spaniards from the regions that will not identify with conservatism because they see it as being closely tied to Castille even though they tend to be conservative. Greece does not have regional centripetal forces. Then again, Italy does. So, it is really hard to pinpoint why Spain is such an outlier. I don't know. Putting all that aside, they still have some attractive women (although this is changing towards Americanised forms of ugliness) which, I suppose, is the most important thing.

    Replies: @Mikel

  190. @Mikel
    @A123


    You can be disappointed in the end results, but not Trump.
     
    Definitely both.

    I very much doubted he would deport 11 million illegals but I never thought he would actually increase legal immigration*, or that he would make relations with Russia worse, or that he wouldn't be able to end any single war.

    This article made me spill my coffee yesterday. You may not find it so funny but I recommend you read it:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-rights-sun-tzuicide/

    * Like Derbyshire, I am an anti-immigrationinst immigrant. What's best for your adopted country is not necessarily what's best for you personally.

    Replies: @A123, @A123, @A123

    Mikel,

    Why are you TROLLING so much?

    I offer objective facts about Trump’s ending of Wars in Afghanistan and Syria. You panic & retreat.

    If you really believe your #NeverTrump fiction, you should be willing to defend your attempt at deception.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  191. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left.
     
    He's probably pretty biased. I read Julius Ruiz, Paracuellos: The Elimination of the Fifth Column in Republican Madrid During the Spanish Civil War (about the major atrocity committed by the Republicans in the civil war, imo not that polemical a book, on some level one can even understand why the Republicans did what they did), and to me the criticism of Preston's interpretation of that event seemed quite devastating, like Preston went out of his way to put the most positive spin possible on the actions of Spanish left-wingers (iirc ironically even agreeing with Spanish right-wingers on the alleged role of NKVD agents in the massacre, for which there doesn't seem to be much evidence).

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I have a book by Julius Ruiz called ‘El Terror Rojo’, a Spanish translation of this one:

    I guess he produced the Paracuellos book afterwards as a more in depth case study. His other work I know was about the Francoist repression in Madrid after the end of the war, I don’t remember noticing any obvious bias in them, he seems like a careful historian.

    The thing I noticed Preston doing was relying on the judgements of the Italian general Mario Roatta, about the battle of Guadalajara and Franco’s generalship in general, very likely because they are negative assessments. But Roatta was the guy who wrote the failed Italian plan for Guadalajara, and was also in command when it was badly executed, so not a reliable source. Using him seemed clearly dubious, unless Preston had been deliberately looking for negative views.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    I have a book by Julius Ruiz called ‘El Terror Rojo’, a Spanish translation of this one:
     
    Yes, I've read the English version of it. There's some overlap with the Paracuellos book, but the latter also contains quite a bit of new material (including discussion of the historiography about the Paracuellos massacre, its role in Spanish politics of remembrance etc.), so imo worth reading both.
    I've also read his book about the post-war trials of Republicans (Franco's justice), I agree, seemed like a pretty nuanced and fair study, definitely not just Francoist apologetics.
  192. @songbird
    Some have speculated that suicide is an evolved group defense for eliminating genetic load. I don't know whether that is the case or not, but it has inspired me to speculate along a different line:

    We judge people by their symmetry, and there is some kind of mechanism whereby crazy people are much more apt to modify their bodies in such a way that it draws attention to their lack of symmetry. Might be a nose ring or tattoo or a buzzcut on a woman, or long hair on a man.
    _________
    In France in 1256, Louis IX , made a decree about banishing prostitutes who had signs of STDs.

    I don't know how effective something like that was back then, but I do think it would be a brilliant move to adopt it today, and create chiefdoms based on different STDs. Would remove a lot of the undesirables.

    Replies: @sher singh

    Listen Amerimutt, show me one culture where Gods have short hair & cut hair isn’t a sign of serfs.
    Cutting someone’s hair & blackening their face is an age old sign of shame/public humiliation.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @sher singh


    show me one culture where Gods have short hair
     
    Good question. My impression is that the Egyptian gods and pharaohs did not have long hair. Ramesses II's mummy survived with his hair. Of course, the point is somewhat obfuscated by many depictions of them in headdresses.

    Similarly, in Europe many artifacts exist that seem to depict gods wearing helmets, and so it it difficult to say what their hair was in every case. Various Greek and Roman leaders were deified, though they had short hair.

    Cutting someone’s hair & blackening their face is an age old sign of shame/public humiliation.
     
    Never heard of this. Sounds like an interesting custom though.

    BTW, I didn't mean to hint Sikhs show they are crazy by growing their hair long. I don't think every man who grows his hair long is crazy, though certainly a greater percentage of Westerners who do are.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

  193. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader

    I have a book by Julius Ruiz called 'El Terror Rojo', a Spanish translation of this one:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Terror-Spanish-Civil-Revolutionary-ebook/dp/B00JXIIEVC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Julius+Ruiz&qid=1639696851&sr=8-1

    I guess he produced the Paracuellos book afterwards as a more in depth case study. His other work I know was about the Francoist repression in Madrid after the end of the war, I don't remember noticing any obvious bias in them, he seems like a careful historian.

    The thing I noticed Preston doing was relying on the judgements of the Italian general Mario Roatta, about the battle of Guadalajara and Franco's generalship in general, very likely because they are negative assessments. But Roatta was the guy who wrote the failed Italian plan for Guadalajara, and was also in command when it was badly executed, so not a reliable source. Using him seemed clearly dubious, unless Preston had been deliberately looking for negative views.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I have a book by Julius Ruiz called ‘El Terror Rojo’, a Spanish translation of this one:

    Yes, I’ve read the English version of it. There’s some overlap with the Paracuellos book, but the latter also contains quite a bit of new material (including discussion of the historiography about the Paracuellos massacre, its role in Spanish politics of remembrance etc.), so imo worth reading both.
    I’ve also read his book about the post-war trials of Republicans (Franco’s justice), I agree, seemed like a pretty nuanced and fair study, definitely not just Francoist apologetics.

  194. @Mikel
    @Agathoklis

    Yes, any simplistic mechanism for social phenomena is always bound to fail in some cases. But I don't think that Greece experienced anything like the religious-political indoctrination that pounded Spaniards during 40 long years, along with a deep isolation from the rest of the Western world. Greece ended WWII fully in the camp of the victors, receiving, if I'm not mistaken, Marshall Plan funds from the very beginning. Spain was much more of a pariah state, condemned by the UN, and at the end of the dictatorship people had a big desire to enjoy the kind of life led by other Europeans that had been denied to them.

    With that said, I don't think there's any shortage of hardcore leftists in Greece either.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    Greece end WWII with a three year civil war. At least initially, the Leftist rebels had significant popular support but this quickly waned as people grew tired of conflict. Thereafter, the successive Right wing governments censored the arts. I agree, it was probably not as bad as Spain but there was repression. Some of it justified. However, we had a military dictatorship beginning from 1967. It was only after the collapse of that regime in 1974 (mostly due to the debacle in Cyprus), that liberalising forces began and really accelerated in the 1980s. Despite this, and as you say, a strong radical Left, the people have largely remained some of the most socially ‘conservative’ in Europe. Even Leftists tend to be socially conservative e.g. pretending to be radical but really just living like typical petite bourgeois.

    I think you ignore the role of regionalism in Spain causing it to be the outlier in the Med. I know Spaniards from the regions that will not identify with conservatism because they see it as being closely tied to Castille even though they tend to be conservative. Greece does not have regional centripetal forces. Then again, Italy does. So, it is really hard to pinpoint why Spain is such an outlier. I don’t know. Putting all that aside, they still have some attractive women (although this is changing towards Americanised forms of ugliness) which, I suppose, is the most important thing.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Agathoklis


    I know Spaniards from the regions that will not identify with conservatism because they see it as being closely tied to Castille even though they tend to be conservative.
     
    You seem to know Spain very well. I think I know which 2 regions those people may be from and they probably don't much like being called Spaniards (in part for the very same reason they don't even want to admit that they're conservatives, like those backward Castilians).

    Replies: @Yevardian

  195. @sher singh
    @songbird

    Listen Amerimutt, show me one culture where Gods have short hair & cut hair isn't a sign of serfs.
    Cutting someone's hair & blackening their face is an age old sign of shame/public humiliation.

    Replies: @songbird

    show me one culture where Gods have short hair

    Good question. My impression is that the Egyptian gods and pharaohs did not have long hair. Ramesses II’s mummy survived with his hair. Of course, the point is somewhat obfuscated by many depictions of them in headdresses.

    Similarly, in Europe many artifacts exist that seem to depict gods wearing helmets, and so it it difficult to say what their hair was in every case. Various Greek and Roman leaders were deified, though they had short hair.

    Cutting someone’s hair & blackening their face is an age old sign of shame/public humiliation.

    Never heard of this. Sounds like an interesting custom though.

    BTW, I didn’t mean to hint Sikhs show they are crazy by growing their hair long. I don’t think every man who grows his hair long is crazy, though certainly a greater percentage of Westerners who do are.

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @songbird

    All Indo European Gods have long hair.
    Sikhs are not unique but merely a codified version

    Of the universal & primordial Arya culture
    Down to the unshorn hair & weapons worship

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/comments/fflm3c/ares_and_the_scythian_sword_cult/

    Replies: @Yevardian, @songbird

  196. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    Don’t argue with me, but with history books that are sold in book shops.
     
    No, the claim that "a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes" I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.

    “Prostitution rose to epidemic proportions.. as many as twenty thousand prostitutes in Barcelona alone”. (When population should be under a million).
     
    No, in 1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

    https://graficos.foro-ciudad.com/evolucion-poblacion/habitantes/1900/2020/1804-barcelona.png

    So I don't know how anyone managed to count the number of prostitutes in that city right after the end of the Spanish Civil War and with WWII in full rage in Europe but even that count of "epidemic" proportions gives us a percentage of only ~4%. And surely Barcelona, a former bastion of the Republic that attracted scores of impoverished immigrants, must have been one of the epicenters of the prostitution phenomenon in post-war Spain. Your own sources dismiss your initial claim.

    There was legal (official sanctioned) prostitution and illegal (unofficial) prostitution in Spain until 1956.
     
    No, once again. Prostitution was never "officially sanctioned" in Francoist Spain. What happened was that a law from the Republic that prohibited prostitution was repealed and the activity itself became alegal because no law made it legal either but procuring prostitutes or profiting from their activity was always prosecuted with more or less zeal. In fact, even today prostitution is not fully legalized in Spain like it is in Germany or the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

    Lol this is pedantic, and I knew when I was writing it that I should write – “Around a million”. So either way, the claim would imply 4% of the Barcelona women at any time. Which is a crazy high number, and actually matches what I originally wrote.

    I’m not commenting whether this is true or not. Just that it matches what I have read in a bookshop. I also remember reading about in Zaragoza though (whereas here only about Barcelona).

    once again. Prostitution was never “officially sanctioned” in Francoist

    Whichever exact phrase, what was written in your post does not match the history book text, which says it was not illegal until 1956, and official brothels were under government supervision. I’m just referring to the text in the history book, as my only information comes from what I read briefly sitting in a bookshop.

    There was actually a legal decision of 1941, in which they reject the prohibition of prostitution. https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:697822/

    No, the claim that “a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes

    I think the book where I saw these claims is “Mujeres caídas: prostitutas legales y clandestinas en el franquismo” (2003), as I read this in a Spanish bookshop.

    I was searching for the last 15 minutes online for this specifically, and I can access for free books by the author’s father (a nuclear scientist). But maybe someone (like German Reader) can access it through the university.

    It was not Paul Preston (searching his books, he writes there was a “massive increase in prostitution under Franco”).

    There is an article Wikipedia Spanish about the author.
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirta_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez

    <blockquote I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.

    It’s a very common narrative of the history books and also historians write “prostitution was legal”.

    So my amateur writing that prostitution was legal under Franco, matches the words of professional historians – and I am a person who has not even read history books fully, although the legally registered number is low.

    So if you want to argue about the phrasing of the words (legal or not), then I am not the one you can blame.

    https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Fear+and+Progress%3A+Ordinary+Lives+in+Franco%27s+Spain%2C+1939+1975-p-9781405133166

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    I can access for free books by the author’s father (a nuclear scientist).
     
    Actually not the feminist historian's (Mirta Núñez Díaz-Balart) father, but her half-brother that is Fidel Castro's son - Soviet scientist Fidel Castro Díaz-Balart. What a crazy family.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADaz-Balart_family

    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    Which is a crazy high number
     
    If I wrote that in the USSR "a high proportion of all Russian women were working as" teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of... 4%. Or that my claim about this figure was just based on an estimate that I read in one book about one city, even though it was contradicted by the numbers collected by local people investigating the reality at the time.

    I don't know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Pericles
    @Dmitry

    I wonder how we should evaluate countries like the Netherlands or Germany where prostitution is currently legalized? Or the US, where it's usually not legal but nowadays seems to be largely ignored. Or Sweden, where it's quasi-legalized-but-not in a sort of sex-positive feminist thought-pretzel.

    (All of this in spite of current extremely loose public morals compared to the 1950s.)

    Replies: @German_reader

  197. @songbird
    @sher singh


    show me one culture where Gods have short hair
     
    Good question. My impression is that the Egyptian gods and pharaohs did not have long hair. Ramesses II's mummy survived with his hair. Of course, the point is somewhat obfuscated by many depictions of them in headdresses.

    Similarly, in Europe many artifacts exist that seem to depict gods wearing helmets, and so it it difficult to say what their hair was in every case. Various Greek and Roman leaders were deified, though they had short hair.

    Cutting someone’s hair & blackening their face is an age old sign of shame/public humiliation.
     
    Never heard of this. Sounds like an interesting custom though.

    BTW, I didn't mean to hint Sikhs show they are crazy by growing their hair long. I don't think every man who grows his hair long is crazy, though certainly a greater percentage of Westerners who do are.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    All Indo European Gods have long hair.
    Sikhs are not unique but merely a codified version

    Of the universal & primordial Arya culture
    Down to the unshorn hair & weapons worship

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Ares and the Scythian Sword Cult from IndoEuropean

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Long hair was also the male norm across much of Medieval and 17th Century Europe, what of it?

    Continuing this obsessive reverence for the central asian Aryans which (repeatedly, in waves spanning from the Vedics to Greeks to the British) enslaved and subjugated your dravidian pajeet ancestors? It is an odd Indian fixation.

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I'm certainly not going to watch it, but presumably its arguing that Atilla's Huns were Indo-Scythian? Because frankly, that doesn't make any sense, as even in their homeland they were replaced (or more likely, a few decisive skirmishes were followed by a mass change in tribal allegiance) by the Sarmatians. The White Huns (Hephthalites) in Asia and 'western' Huns of Atilla are now considered to be entirely unrelated by most scholars, the identity of the latter is debated, but they almost certainly weren't Indo-European.

    Incidentally, Sikhism owes it's existence as a Hindu/Dharmic reaction to Abrahamic religion, it has nothing to do with whatever re-constructed elements are known from the paganism of PIE steppe peoples.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sher singh

    , @songbird
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Not sure Huns were PIE. Maybe.

    But it seems like they practiced some pretty weird customs. Cranial deformation (albeit was seemingly copied by some Germans). And I have heard that they also defoliated their beards by scarification from knives or burning. (though I am scratching my head over this, isn't Attila described as having a short beard?)

    Replies: @sher singh

  198. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry

    I used to own a copy of this book:

    https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-un-inmenso-prostibulo-mujer-y-moralidad-durante-el-franquismo/9788485031481/1061845

    I gave it away so can't consult it now. It was a reprint of a report from 1943 by a government commission created to look into the issue of prostitution, iirc chaired by General Franco's wife. From what I recall it was a direct and straightforward report, increased prostitution was being caused by hunger, lack of education, the difficult position of the wives of Republican pows and war widows.

    I remember there being a discussion in the report about the legalisation of prostitution, with opinions from church fathers and theologians, Augustine and Aquinas were in favour of legal brothels (like maisons de tolerance in France) because without them they judged that sodomy and bestiality would break out and corrupt the polity. OTOH various later moral theologians in the 17th and 18th centuries attacked these views on the grounds that experience showed that the harm and vice generated by them was too great.

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco regime so in my experience always chooses a negative interpretation of things involving the Nationalists, and a more indulgent one for the left. On a narrow topic I happened to know about in more depth than average it was clear that his line of interpretation always went one way, but imo it is also generally visible if Preston is read at the same time as his US equivalent, the historian Stanley Payne, who tends in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird, @Mikel, @Dmitry

    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco

    I can’t say much about this topic, as I only read about Spain in the bookshop to improve my Spanish language skill. I don’t really know much about Spanish history, beyond skimming a few pages in the bookshop.

    Still Mikel needs to argue less with me, and more with whatever they write about Spanish history in the bookshops, because I just remember those books.

    What I found interesting about Paul Preston, is that his books are promoted in the book shops in Madrid, as the most authoritative historian, even while they are translated to Spanish from English.

    So when I was in the bookshop in Madrid and trying to read Spanish history books, the most promoted ones can be English authors. And Paul Preston is one of the main books I saw in Madrid bookshops.

    If I remember talking about this in the forum before. Because I remember Paul Preston books are the most promoted 20th century Spanish history books in the Spanish bookshops.

    And I didn’t want to read Spanish books with an English author, so I was searching bookshops in Madrid, trying to find something to buy from a Spanish historian.

    Scary that I about wrote this here on the forum 3,2 years ago. It feels like I wrote it a few hours ago. (Our life and youth is dying so fast).

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/petre-tutea-on-russians/#comment-2598018

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Dmitry

    That sounds awful, I noticed the same thing in Finland and the Baltics a while ago, but I simply regarded Anglo-domination as inevitable they have such a small local language market, and such brief literary histories.
    But in Spain? The source of the second most commonly spoken native tongue on the planet? I know Spain has always been quite intellectually backward compared to any other European country of comparable size and power, but wow, in Madrid? That's really quite grim.

    Although, almost all major bookstores just sell either the usual bestselling trash, alongside extremely similar sections of 'serious' books across dozens of chains. It's invariably more rewarding to go to a 2nd-hand bookstore, not to mention it's usually cheaper anyway. The owners behind the counter who pilot these commerical deathships usually have decent taste too, as opposed to chains where the manager will pride themselves as belonging to some ridiculous 'bookclub', at best..

    Replies: @Dmitry

  199. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

     

    Lol this is pedantic, and I knew when I was writing it that I should write - "Around a million". So either way, the claim would imply 4% of the Barcelona women at any time. Which is a crazy high number, and actually matches what I originally wrote.

    I'm not commenting whether this is true or not. Just that it matches what I have read in a bookshop. I also remember reading about in Zaragoza though (whereas here only about Barcelona).


    once again. Prostitution was never “officially sanctioned” in Francoist
     
    Whichever exact phrase, what was written in your post does not match the history book text, which says it was not illegal until 1956, and official brothels were under government supervision. I'm just referring to the text in the history book, as my only information comes from what I read briefly sitting in a bookshop.

    There was actually a legal decision of 1941, in which they reject the prohibition of prostitution. https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:697822/

    https://i.imgur.com/JNYvaoa.jpg


    No, the claim that “a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes

     

    I think the book where I saw these claims is "Mujeres caídas: prostitutas legales y clandestinas en el franquismo" (2003), as I read this in a Spanish bookshop.

    I was searching for the last 15 minutes online for this specifically, and I can access for free books by the author's father (a nuclear scientist). But maybe someone (like German Reader) can access it through the university.

    It was not Paul Preston (searching his books, he writes there was a "massive increase in prostitution under Franco").

    There is an article Wikipedia Spanish about the author.
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirta_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez


    <blockquote I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.
     It's a very common narrative of the history books and also historians write "prostitution was legal".

    So my amateur writing that prostitution was legal under Franco, matches the words of professional historians - and I am a person who has not even read history books fully, although the legally registered number is low.

    So if you want to argue about the phrasing of the words (legal or not), then I am not the one you can blame.

    https://i.imgur.com/JfcEv8d.jpg

    https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Fear+and+Progress%3A+Ordinary+Lives+in+Franco%27s+Spain%2C+1939+1975-p-9781405133166

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel, @Pericles

    I can access for free books by the author’s father (a nuclear scientist).

    Actually not the feminist historian’s (Mirta Núñez Díaz-Balart) father, but her half-brother that is Fidel Castro’s son – Soviet scientist Fidel Castro Díaz-Balart. What a crazy family.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%ADaz-Balart_family

  200. @Agathoklis
    @Mikel

    Greece end WWII with a three year civil war. At least initially, the Leftist rebels had significant popular support but this quickly waned as people grew tired of conflict. Thereafter, the successive Right wing governments censored the arts. I agree, it was probably not as bad as Spain but there was repression. Some of it justified. However, we had a military dictatorship beginning from 1967. It was only after the collapse of that regime in 1974 (mostly due to the debacle in Cyprus), that liberalising forces began and really accelerated in the 1980s. Despite this, and as you say, a strong radical Left, the people have largely remained some of the most socially 'conservative' in Europe. Even Leftists tend to be socially conservative e.g. pretending to be radical but really just living like typical petite bourgeois.

    I think you ignore the role of regionalism in Spain causing it to be the outlier in the Med. I know Spaniards from the regions that will not identify with conservatism because they see it as being closely tied to Castille even though they tend to be conservative. Greece does not have regional centripetal forces. Then again, Italy does. So, it is really hard to pinpoint why Spain is such an outlier. I don't know. Putting all that aside, they still have some attractive women (although this is changing towards Americanised forms of ugliness) which, I suppose, is the most important thing.

    Replies: @Mikel

    I know Spaniards from the regions that will not identify with conservatism because they see it as being closely tied to Castille even though they tend to be conservative.

    You seem to know Spain very well. I think I know which 2 regions those people may be from and they probably don’t much like being called Spaniards (in part for the very same reason they don’t even want to admit that they’re conservatives, like those backward Castilians).

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Mikel

    No need for insinuation, I'm almost certain this refers to Catalonia and the Basque Country. I suppose Spanish history is somewhat unusual within Europe, in that the richest and most socially developed areas of the country have also been also been on the geographic and linguistic periphery in relation to the political centre, Castille.
    Although wasn't the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars? Granted, they had their own self-interested reasons (F-f... fourist? don't recall the name, autonomy privileges) but Carlism can hardly be described as anything but ultra-conservative, whatever a hodgepodge of ideas it was.

    Perhaps in a timeline where Franco was sufficiently stupid or vainglorious for Hitler to successfully bribe him into the war, we would have seen Spain broken up into its distinct ethnic parts.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Dmitry

  201. @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    My own experience with doctors is 50-50. The last time I went to a physician (~10 years ago) he asked me questions and typed into his laptop and it was obvious he was operating a diagnosis tree program
     
    I have a very good relationship with my long term GP doctor. We have headed off a significant amount of unnecessary work by documenting some personal body chemistry that is well away from standard.

    A 2-year tech and BigPharma computer program would have called for pharmaceutical intervention that would have made things worse. Odds are that error would have been so damaging I would have needed liver transplant surgery.

    How to protect the medical profession from BigPharma is not a straight line connection to years of education. However, actual understanding is the best counter to computer error.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    There is an awful lot of that sort of thing in my experience. The vast majority of the time diagnosis it’s just throwing stock remedies at the wall to see what sticks. Even good doctors are too rushed oftentimes to give a really thorough inquiry.

    My wife has some deep seated thyroid/ adrenal issues and we really have had to do our own research and find a doctor who is willing order in depth blood tests. No joke, a lot of doctors have just jumped to trying to throw anti-depressants at symptoms like “low energy”. It’s such a joke.

    It’s hardly the only similar situation we’ve seen. It’s partly why my desire to “trust the experts” on Covid has been less than enthusiastic.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    ... we really have had to do our own research and find a doctor who is willing order in depth blood tests. No joke, a lot of doctors have just jumped to trying to throw anti-depressants at symptoms like “low energy”. It’s such a joke.
     
    Both my Doctor and I did research to avoid the BigPharma solution. For me it was a split between D and B enzyme activity.

    The are huge forces pushing towards BigPharma. Manda-vaxx extremism is not Fauci's first offense (1)


    During the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s, Dr. Anthony Fauci discouraged and prevented inexpensive treatments for AIDS and focused exclusively on AZT. He’s doing the same thing today with COVID, focusing on highly profitable vaccines and ignoring potentially safe and effective treatments.
     

    Realizing the potential to earn big profits, Iversen says pharmaceutical companies soon began developing treatments for AIDS.

    The British drug company, Burroughs Wellcome & Co., said its failed cancer drug AZT could be used to treat AIDS.

    Few studies were done, said Iversen, and the long-term side effects were unknown. But in March 1987, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved AZT, claiming the benefits outweighed the risks.

    Celia Farber, who in 1989 reported on the approval of AZT and its potential health risks, wrote at the time:

    “The majority of those in the AIDS-afflicted and medical communities held the drug up as the first breakthrough on AIDS. For better or worse, AZT had been approved faster than any drug in FDA history, and activists considered it a victory. The price paid for the victory, however, was that almost all government drug trials, from then on, focused on AZT — while over 100 other promising drugs were left uninvestigated.”
     

    Adding to the wealth of Pharmaceutical MegaCorporations is a fundamental SJW/DNC value.

    I wish I had known about Fauci's malfeasance sooner. And, I feel very glad I avoided the heart detonating jab..... I was picking "which one" when the tidal wave of truth broke through the censorship wall.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.theburningplatform.com/2021/09/14/fauci-botched-the-aids-epidemic-so-big-pharma-could-profit-hes-doing-it-again-with-covid/

     
    https://i.imgur.com/oSErbH2.jpg

  202. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    they are so innocent and sweet
     
    Lol I know Republic of Ireland.

    If you said they are "responsive, charming, extroverted, and socially intelligent", this is true. I will disagree with "innocent".

    They are the most extroverted, self-confident, socially intelligent, kind of "tropical" friendly people, after maybe Italy.

    But charming is not the same as innocent, although maybe a sign of high levels of charming skills if you can make people (or teacher, police, boss, parents, etc) think you are innocent.

    -

    By the way, I wonder why they developed such a friendly personality there? I was enjoying speculating something like claims Japanese became very polite, because they were without weapons, under control of samurais. Maybe Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills against English.


    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I’m not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.
     
    What it is said by Irish cultural about politics, is "we always support the weaker side", because the mainstream attitude is to view themselves as victims of imperialism.

    So they (I mean mainstream of culture) view themselves like they victims of history, like another African-Americans or Native Indians. It's not really the same as "woke" of the UK, as it doesn't exactly involve as self-flagellation. Still it is something like "woke allies". Whereas in the Kingdom, the woke view is that to admit they were imperialists, and then self-flagellate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @LatW

    Yes, I was going to say that the Irish developed the charm so they could BS their English overlords.

    As being mostly Irish myself I agree with you about a certain amount of “reservation mentality” relating towards victim-hood. The Irish sure did get the sharp end of a lot of sticks but it doesn’t help to brood about generational woes.

    It always is an amusing side to the “bad Wypipo” mentality… where do the Irish fit in there?! I deserve reparations too! We wuz Kangz ‘o Tara!

  203. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

     

    Lol this is pedantic, and I knew when I was writing it that I should write - "Around a million". So either way, the claim would imply 4% of the Barcelona women at any time. Which is a crazy high number, and actually matches what I originally wrote.

    I'm not commenting whether this is true or not. Just that it matches what I have read in a bookshop. I also remember reading about in Zaragoza though (whereas here only about Barcelona).


    once again. Prostitution was never “officially sanctioned” in Francoist
     
    Whichever exact phrase, what was written in your post does not match the history book text, which says it was not illegal until 1956, and official brothels were under government supervision. I'm just referring to the text in the history book, as my only information comes from what I read briefly sitting in a bookshop.

    There was actually a legal decision of 1941, in which they reject the prohibition of prostitution. https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:697822/

    https://i.imgur.com/JNYvaoa.jpg


    No, the claim that “a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes

     

    I think the book where I saw these claims is "Mujeres caídas: prostitutas legales y clandestinas en el franquismo" (2003), as I read this in a Spanish bookshop.

    I was searching for the last 15 minutes online for this specifically, and I can access for free books by the author's father (a nuclear scientist). But maybe someone (like German Reader) can access it through the university.

    It was not Paul Preston (searching his books, he writes there was a "massive increase in prostitution under Franco").

    There is an article Wikipedia Spanish about the author.
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirta_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez


    <blockquote I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.
     It's a very common narrative of the history books and also historians write "prostitution was legal".

    So my amateur writing that prostitution was legal under Franco, matches the words of professional historians - and I am a person who has not even read history books fully, although the legally registered number is low.

    So if you want to argue about the phrasing of the words (legal or not), then I am not the one you can blame.

    https://i.imgur.com/JfcEv8d.jpg

    https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Fear+and+Progress%3A+Ordinary+Lives+in+Franco%27s+Spain%2C+1939+1975-p-9781405133166

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel, @Pericles

    Which is a crazy high number

    If I wrote that in the USSR “a high proportion of all Russian women were working as” teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%. Or that my claim about this figure was just based on an estimate that I read in one book about one city, even though it was contradicted by the numbers collected by local people investigating the reality at the time.

    I don’t know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%.
     
    Exclude children and pensioners, and the proportion of young women would be even higher, if this figure was true. And then it's people currently passing through the work, so the total who pass through in a lifetime becomes higher again than currently working women.

    I'm not saying it is a reliable data, or that we infer anything. I'm not saying I'm knowledgeable enough to assess this claim. Just that the source is matches what I had intended in my original post meaning.


    I don’t know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

     

    I'm not defending the claim, just that it matches the narrative in those books.

    Anyway, the interesting thing is in detail the texts I posted, not me or you arguing pedantics.

    That is, the claim that prostitution "increases massively under Franco" (Paul Preston), while there is a moral campaign in the media or culture by the government. That is, such a government censoring morality, and then you might often see divergence at the reality.

    I added this fact just to mention such a divergence. E.g. When the Second Spanish Republic government bans prostitution in 1935, and this ban is removed in 1941 by Franco's government.


    I wrote that in the USSR “a high proportion of all Russian women were working as” teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%
     
    The number of people working as teachers is less than 1% of the total population today.

    So I interpret a claim about 4% of the total female population of a city like Barcelona as prostitutes, sounds very high proportion.

    But for discussing Franco's Spain, I'm sure there are many more interesting things to mention. I just used an example I remembered.

    -

    Offtopic.

    A story I read recently about Franco's regime, was about the "stolen babies", which reminds a bit of the "Yemenite Children Affair" in Israel (in which children of Yemenite immigrants were reported to be dead by hospitals, and given to families for adoption).

    "Known as the lost children of the Franco-era, as many as 300,000 babies are estimated to have been abducted from their mothers under General Francisco Franco, who ruled Spain from 1939-75, and in the decades after."

    "The theft of newborns began in the 1930’s after the Spanish Civil War as an ideological practice, stripping left-wing parents or Franco-opponents of their children as a way of ridding Marxist influence from society. But in the 1950’s, the practice expanded to poor or illegitimate families who were seen as economically or morally deficient, Agence France-Presse reports."

    https://time.com/5321938/spain-stolen-babies-franco-trial/

    Replies: @Mikel

  204. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    There is an awful lot of that sort of thing in my experience. The vast majority of the time diagnosis it's just throwing stock remedies at the wall to see what sticks. Even good doctors are too rushed oftentimes to give a really thorough inquiry.

    My wife has some deep seated thyroid/ adrenal issues and we really have had to do our own research and find a doctor who is willing order in depth blood tests. No joke, a lot of doctors have just jumped to trying to throw anti-depressants at symptoms like "low energy". It's such a joke.

    It's hardly the only similar situation we've seen. It's partly why my desire to "trust the experts" on Covid has been less than enthusiastic.

    Replies: @A123

    … we really have had to do our own research and find a doctor who is willing order in depth blood tests. No joke, a lot of doctors have just jumped to trying to throw anti-depressants at symptoms like “low energy”. It’s such a joke.

    Both my Doctor and I did research to avoid the BigPharma solution. For me it was a split between D and B enzyme activity.

    The are huge forces pushing towards BigPharma. Manda-vaxx extremism is not Fauci’s first offense (1)

    During the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s, Dr. Anthony Fauci discouraged and prevented inexpensive treatments for AIDS and focused exclusively on AZT. He’s doing the same thing today with COVID, focusing on highly profitable vaccines and ignoring potentially safe and effective treatments.

    Realizing the potential to earn big profits, Iversen says pharmaceutical companies soon began developing treatments for AIDS.

    The British drug company, Burroughs Wellcome & Co., said its failed cancer drug AZT could be used to treat AIDS.

    Few studies were done, said Iversen, and the long-term side effects were unknown. But in March 1987, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved AZT, claiming the benefits outweighed the risks.

    Celia Farber, who in 1989 reported on the approval of AZT and its potential health risks, wrote at the time:

    “The majority of those in the AIDS-afflicted and medical communities held the drug up as the first breakthrough on AIDS. For better or worse, AZT had been approved faster than any drug in FDA history, and activists considered it a victory. The price paid for the victory, however, was that almost all government drug trials, from then on, focused on AZT — while over 100 other promising drugs were left uninvestigated.”

    Adding to the wealth of Pharmaceutical MegaCorporations is a fundamental SJW/DNC value.

    I wish I had known about Fauci’s malfeasance sooner. And, I feel very glad I avoided the heart detonating jab….. I was picking “which one” when the tidal wave of truth broke through the censorship wall.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.theburningplatform.com/2021/09/14/fauci-botched-the-aids-epidemic-so-big-pharma-could-profit-hes-doing-it-again-with-covid/

     

  205. @songbird
    @AP

    Where are the Indians in Haiti?


    Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England
     
    I'm not sure that this is correct. New England has areas which are unarable or so acidic that they are arable for only very specific crops like cranberries, and it is fairly narrow and somewhat constrained by mountains.

    But, leave it aside, as my contention is that the Indians on both sides were primarily huntergatherers. Some in Quebec being entirely huntergatherers, with zero agriculture, others sowing snatch crops, while those in New England only sowed snatch crops, meaning that they did not stay in one place the whole year, while looking after their fields, but fished or hunted deer and gathered nuts.

    It seems obvious that, according to the limits of this lifestyle, there would be many more hunter-gatherers in Quebec (much larger) than in (much smaller) New England. I'll also add that disease probably ravaged agricultural communities more, due to larger population sizes.

    And I think you would expect that there would be a little more mixing where there was less farming and more hunter-gathering, due to women being more amendable to living in agricultural communities than in icy forests, such as in the rather large Boreal Forest part of Quebec. That is why Quebecois often might be about 1% Indian, though the percentage for Mayflower New Englanders would be less.

    Pocahontas (English colony, though not from NE) actually has living descendants today, though she did not live a long time, due to diseases that she was not evolved for.
    _____
    Anyway, I don't think that either of us are expert enough to understand what the expected number of Indians should be. Probably it would take extracting DNA from a lot of old bones (not something Indians are amendable to) and complicated modeling to get to something close to the real number, if it is even possible.

    My main disagreement with you is in your moral condemnation of European settlement in America. To start with, I think your attitude is too flippant, and that this flippancy comes from your family being more recent transplants, with zero perceived interest in maintaining a traditional American identity (and perhaps no experience of an America with one), but more interest in elevating the newcomer.

    Meanwhile, though I don't come of Protestant stock, or anything close to Mayflower descent, I have some older, though not very old roots in America. However, half of my family was well-integrated into a traditional American cultural identity, which took place while the WASPs were still in ascendancy, and where there was little room for political correctness. During this time, mainstream historians still laughed at Sacagawea and Americans (there was then such a cohesive identity of closely-related Euros) were too prideful to be susceptible to these attacks meant to elevate not Indians, but the latest invader.

    If somehow the place was like Paraguay, would your family have come? Would it have come, even if it was like Mexico? I'm not sure. Would you have miscegenated with an Squaw and given your half-breed daughters over to fully Indian males? Have you miscegenated?

    The English conquered a continent. What they did was hardly unique, except by scale. Japan experienced over 70% population replacement, after 150 AD. If you had any sense of propriety, you ought to be thanking them, rather than condemning them and looking to score points off of them.

    Indians loved nothing so much as killing each other. Even the Inuit committed their own genocide. I condemn neither, though they were certainly more barbaric peoples than colonial Euros, who gave them some measure of peace.

    Replies: @AP

    Where are the Indians in Haiti?

    The pre-Columbian population in Haiti was tiny – in couple 10,000s, per genetic research. At least half probably died of disease.

    Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England

    New England has areas which are unarable or so acidic that they are arable for only very specific crops like cranberries, and it is fairly narrow and somewhat constrained by mountains.

    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State, which has lots of arable land and was once the heartland of the large Iroquois confederacy.

    Anyway, I don’t think that either of us are expert enough to understand what the expected number of Indians should be.

    Sure, but a discrepancy of that magnitude makes it hard to conclude that the French Catholics in Quebec didn’t treat the natives a lot better than did the Calvinist Puritans.

    My main disagreement with you is in your moral condemnation of European settlement in America.

    French and Russians were fairly benign, Spaniards were on balance good (anything bad done by then was more than compensated for by the destruction of the evil demon-worshipping Aztec Empire), English were brutal and bad to the natives. That they then built a successful and prosperous society for themselves (and those who joined them) – more so than did the others in North America – speaks to the success of English governance and customs for their own people.

    your family being more recent transplants, with zero perceived interest in maintaining a traditional American identity

    I’d like America to remain as it is (well, until recently, but it still has a long way to fall), because it is a good place to live and my kids and grandkids will be here.

    If somehow the place was like Paraguay, would your family have come?

    They would have stayed in Western Europe. Some of them did.

    Ukrainians who moved to Paraguay became rich farmers and landowners though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Paraguay

    If you had any sense of propriety, you ought to be thanking them, rather than condemning them and looking to score points off of them.

    I condemn evil where I see it. Genocide is evil. I wouldn’t have existed if Hitler hadn’t invaded the USSR, an invasion that involved tens of millions of deaths.. Should I be thankful for that, as I should be thankful for Calvinists for wiping out much of a continent?

    Indians loved nothing so much as killing each other.

    I don’t pretend they were better, of course. Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State
     
    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.

    We are talking about slash and burn agriculture here, and probably without the slash, due to lack of metallurgy. Have you ever tried to cut down an oak tree with a stone axe? (I'm sure that it can't be done.)

    Better comparison of resources would not be assumed quantification of agricultural potential for Indians, but rather how many deer and moose in the woods, fish in the rivers, nuts from the trees, berries on the bushes? How many beaver pelts to be traded? And I would suppose that Quebec would clearly be the winner here.

    Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.
     
    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?

    Should I be thankful for that, as I should be thankful for Calvinists for wiping out much of a continent?
     
    i don't get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture, then I have read American Indian myths, and you can too. They were super-primitive. Frankly, a lot of their stories stink, and some of the more meritorious probably have dubious origin. The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English. They gambled over their gold artifacts and melted them down into bullion, instead of preserving them. They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone. It is said that the Inca, used to have some sort of tower, and that it was filled to the top with their dead bodies, after they made a last ditch defense.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people's hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines. There were many native rebellions against the Spanish. I don't think you have a leg to stand on historically.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn't have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.

    I condemn evil where I see it.
     
    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago, and which you have fantastically benefited from.

    True ethics is consequentialism. What good comes from denouncing them now? And trying to compare them? Clearly, they are all lumped together as "white", and it is being used as a justification to invade both America and Europe, and for many other kinds of evil.

    Replies: @AP

  206. @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    The Kanun
     
    I saw a documentary about this years ago, about men who had to go into hiding for decades because of blood feuds which had already killed several people on both sides. Really depressing. I'd assumed though it was limited to remote rural areas, bit disturbing that it seems to be more widespread.

    Anyway, Serbians should be grateful Albanians exist, simply so they’re not the biggest niggers of Europe.
     
    I think both are easily topped by gypsies.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I think both are easily topped by gypsies.

    Undoubtedly. NPR liberals will sometimes caterwaul about “the poor marginalized Roma” and how the word gypsy is racist, etc. I don’t hear boo about no po’ Albanians or Serbs.

    That conclusively proves that gypsies are the niggers of Europe and Albanians and Serbs are just poor whites.

  207. @Max Demian
    @AP


    practicing gay bishops
     
    They still need to practice?

    Might not brazenly buggering be more apt?[1]

    Now, to segue from this tongue-in-cheek* interlude to offer an entirely earnest contribution that is related, if only tangentially, to the topic addressed by the former.

    (*But not-- decidedly, emphatically, unequivocally not-- tongue-in {other anatomical parts}...)

    The categorical, absolute, doctrinaire assertions that homoeroticism is without exception both innate as well as immutable; that it is equivalent to normative heterosexuality (much less to sacred matrimony[2]); and the conflation (both witting as well as unwitting) of involuntary feelings with voluntary behaviors (as well as the conflation of specific, objectively unwholesome acts with homoeroticism, or even homoerotic activity, per se[3]). These are all manifestly false and objectively harmful.

    @Songbird:


    ...beach bods...pretty girls...Long Beach...
     
    Anyone else reminded of the Rodney Dangerfield line from the Jacuzzi scene in the 1986 blockbuster Back to School,
    "Maybe you girls can help me straighten out my Longfellow."?

    To again segue from the jocular and raunchy to the earnest and chaste, I will offer another contention. This one, though, sure to be less popular, accepted or even palatable to the present audience than the previous.

    The Bikini vs. the Burka.

    This should be a false dichotomy. Between these opposite extremes, lies a vast expanse of moderation. If forced to choose one or the other, however, I would aver that the burka would be the lesser evil. Less unwholesome and socially corrosive than the bikini.

    Dfordoom would almost certainly disagree. Incidentally, does anyone know what happened to the redoubtable DFD? His last last posted comment dates to August and his blog has disappeared.

    Numbered notes, for some elaboration and elucidation, below break.
    [1] It might incidentally be noted here that to infer from either this or any of my past comments evidence of categorical, unqualified condemnation of homoeroticism, per se on my part would be unfounded. A review of the relevant record would reveal that my criticism, and condemnations and any other attacks I have made within the area-in-question have been directed, rather clearly, emphatically, consistently and often painstakingly, against specific acts, behaviors, positions, views, attitudes, ideologies and movements. The paragraph that immediately follows the launching point for this note should serve as a prime illustration of the very point that the latter attempts to make.

    [2] Upon seeing a word such as sacred in any context such as this, it would seem that most people assume the writer or speaker is arguing from a specifically religious perspective. While such an assumption would generally have at least a high likelihood of being accurate, it need not be. Note that out of a total of seven definitions given for sacred in the first entry for the word at Dictionary [dot] com, a full four (the final four) have no inherent religious or other supernatural meaning or connotations.

    [3] An example of a homoerotic ideal that is at least considerably less unwholesome than the prevailing one, can be found at man2manalliance [dot] org. (GRAPHIC CONTENT)

    Replies: @songbird, @A123, @Barbarossa

    dfordoom seems to have checked out of Unz following the demise of AE’s blog, since he seemed to have some crankiness about Karlin.

    I was checking into his personal blog a bit myself, and notice that it had been suddenly memory holed. I’ve wondered myself how he’s doing Down Under. Hopefully he’s doing okay.

    • Thanks: Max Demian
  208. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    they are so innocent and sweet
     
    Lol I know Republic of Ireland.

    If you said they are "responsive, charming, extroverted, and socially intelligent", this is true. I will disagree with "innocent".

    They are the most extroverted, self-confident, socially intelligent, kind of "tropical" friendly people, after maybe Italy.

    But charming is not the same as innocent, although maybe a sign of high levels of charming skills if you can make people (or teacher, police, boss, parents, etc) think you are innocent.

    -

    By the way, I wonder why they developed such a friendly personality there? I was enjoying speculating something like claims Japanese became very polite, because they were without weapons, under control of samurais. Maybe Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills against English.


    Their wokeness is also quite recent, I’m not sure they had all the cray that the Dutch and Germans started having back in the 1980s.
     
    What it is said by Irish cultural about politics, is "we always support the weaker side", because the mainstream attitude is to view themselves as victims of imperialism.

    So they (I mean mainstream of culture) view themselves like they victims of history, like another African-Americans or Native Indians. It's not really the same as "woke" of the UK, as it doesn't exactly involve as self-flagellation. Still it is something like "woke allies". Whereas in the Kingdom, the woke view is that to admit they were imperialists, and then self-flagellate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @LatW

    Maybe the Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills with English

    Well, they did have weapons later on. But it’s not a bad guess. They are verbally quite astute. However, this does not explain why other peoples that were subjected to tyranny did not develop this light heartedness and charitability (such as our own people).

    And you’re making a similar point as I tried to make. It seems their openness to the world comes from the feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas). Whereas certain other Western types go about it with a kind of a self-righteous fanaticism which seems to be more about status and the desire to control others and to impose their will on others.

    Of course, having wokeness arise from the victim narrative is not all that flattering… those things should be separated.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas)
     
    Ireland is such a strong example to me, that in the culture, people can really seem trained to be socially intelligent, talkative and responsive.

    Because there is really a lot of cultural divergence in this area. If you compare London and Dublin, and in Dublin there is immediate culture shock that the people have some kind of higher responsiveness or engagement level setting on.

    Do you think more extraverted, social people, people are actually nicer though? My intuition is the other way round.

    If you can give an appearance of being nice, then it means less pressure to actually be nice. It doesn't cost anything to seem nice. If you can be charming with the teacher, you don't need to do as much homework.

    Not that I tested. But if you were homeless in Dublin, I'm not sure you should bet people on average would really help you more than in London. But you should bet that in Dublin, most people will seem more like they want to help you.


    tyranny did not develop this light heartedness.
     
    And in Finland, the opposite.

    Maybe Catholicism, rather than occupation, has made people more charming in Ireland? Catholics have some of the friendliest nationalities, like Philippines, Brazilian and Mexican.

    But then... in France or Austria, or a lot of Germany, there is a lot of Catholic history, and not so much superficial charm to strangers. I guess with this cultural discussion, usually there seem as many counter-examples than correlations.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @songbird
    @LatW


    Well, they did have weapons later on.
     
    Interestingly, some believe that the shillelagh was more or less a lineal (or shall I say collateral) descendant of one of the weapons found at the Tollense Valley Battlefield.

    According to this theory, during the Bronze Age, it was only the elite who used bronze. The peasants went to battle with staves which is indicated by the type of blows found on many skulls. And so the idea is that even though the native Irish elite were disarmed and dispossessed, Irish peasants kept their own traditional fighting techniques.

    Of course, in the High and Late Middle Ages, I am sure they used pole-axes or something, but maybe they kept staves for recreational use.
  209. @A123
    How many people have caught the Fed fibbing about U.S. inflation?

    Conservative Treehouse helpfully added Actual 2021 inflation (green) to a Fed chart where they maliciously omitted it: (1)

     
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Fed-Graph-2.jpg


    The 6.8% inflation rate is just about where the dot in the “j” of the word projection would be located. That’s where we are currently.
     
    The SJW Elites with excess disposable income see this as a minor inconvenience. They genuinely do not understand the consequences to blue collar workers surviving paycheck-to-paycheck. Massive increases in gasoline price directly hit every personal fuel stop. Worse yet, every truck delivered product is going up to cover transportation costs.

    The DNC has unleashed Carter-flation 2.0. In the 80's, the pro-MegaCorporation GOP(e) could not exploit that fully. Now, the MAGA GOP is ready to be the genuine Workers Party. All it will take is a few "honest vote counts" to render the Democrats into a permanent minority party.

    The alternative is civil disorder, or even Civil War. Main Street America is not willing to tolerate another stolen election.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    _____________________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/12/15/fed-chairman-jerome-powells-presser-should-alarm-everyone-on-main-street/

    Replies: @Beckow

    …DNC has unleashed Carter-flation 2.0…

    Inflation always undermines the existing power structure. For elite it is as bad as losing a war. They ruling liberals didn’t unleash it willingly, by 2021 they had no better alternative. The cumulative debts cannot be paid back – defaults or a jubilee could trigger a catastrophic chain reaction. The only alternative was to use inflation to devalue debts gradually – it buys time.

    The reason the Fed fibs about it is that they want the inflation benefits without the bad publicity. It usually doesn’t work. This will get ugly. If MAGA was allowed to implement its full program in 2017-20 – or if Trump had more willpower to push it through – it could have been avoided: closed borders, domestic reindustrialization, growing economy, higher incomes – together that would have stabilized the system.

    But it didn’t happen and by 2025 things could be too decrepit to try again.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow

    As I repeatedly point out, it was the U.S. system not the willpower of an individual.

    There was no visible alternative to achieve the outcome you, I, and others wanted. At that time the only way to beat the system would have been overthrowing the Constitution and declaring himself Emperor Triumphus I.

     
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IBnLiD73D0Y/maxresdefault.jpg
     

    While emotionally appealing to some, such hopes were naive & highly impractical. Such a rebellion would almost certainly have failed.
    ___

    The U.S. people, suffering under Not-The-President Biden's illegitimate regime, are growing in willpower. Openly rigging an election worked once, but will not be tolerated again. Also, the GOP has genuinely adopted MAGA. There will be a MAGA House for Appropriations & (hopefully) Senate for Confirmations.

    The key to escaping the inflation trap is making sufficient physical goods in the U.S. Despite SJW Sabotage, energy independence will be available for the next administration. If the President, Senate, and House together have the will, it is not too late. If only one has the willpower, we are probably looking at a Civil War and an end to the Constitution as it currently exists.
    ___

    There is one thing that is guaranteed to produce failure. Joining team #NeverTrump because Trump failed to achieve the unachievable in his 1st Term. Irrational low-IQ yahoos want Biden to have 8 years in puppet office & permanent DNC rule. Why? Because the impossible was impossible. That hurt their feelings. One cannot use logic to dissuade people from that magnitude of emotion based SJW irrationality.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  210. I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%.

    Exclude children and pensioners, and the proportion of young women would be even higher, if this figure was true. And then it’s people currently passing through the work, so the total who pass through in a lifetime becomes higher again than currently working women.

    I’m not saying it is a reliable data, or that we infer anything. I’m not saying I’m knowledgeable enough to assess this claim. Just that the source is matches what I had intended in my original post meaning.

    I don’t know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

    I’m not defending the claim, just that it matches the narrative in those books.

    Anyway, the interesting thing is in detail the texts I posted, not me or you arguing pedantics.

    That is, the claim that prostitution “increases massively under Franco” (Paul Preston), while there is a moral campaign in the media or culture by the government. That is, such a government censoring morality, etc, and then you might often see divergence at the reality.

    I added this fact just to mention such a divergence, which I have a bias to associate with this kind of government.

    I wrote that in the USSR “a high proportion of all Russian women were working as” teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%

    The number of people working as teachers is less than 1% of the total population today.

    So I interpret a claim about 4% of the total female population of a city like Barcelona as prostitutes, sounds very high proportion.

    But for discussing Franco’s Spain, I’m sure there are many more interesting things to mention. I just used an example I remembered.

    Offtopic.

    A story I read recently about Franco’s regime, was about the “stolen babies”, which reminds a bit of the “Yemenite Children Affair” in Israel (in which children of Yemenite immigrants were reported to be dead by hospitals, and given to families for adoption).

    “Known as the lost children of the Franco-era, as many as 300,000 babies are estimated to have been abducted from their mothers under General Francisco Franco, who ruled Spain from 1939-75, and in the decades after.”

    “The theft of newborns began in the 1930’s after the Spanish Civil War as an ideological practice, stripping left-wing parents or Franco-opponents of their children as a way of ridding Marxist influence from society. But in the 1950’s, the practice expanded to poor or illegitimate families who were seen as economically or morally deficient, Agence France-Presse reports.”

    https://time.com/5321938/spain-stolen-babies-franco-trial/

  211. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    Which is a crazy high number
     
    If I wrote that in the USSR "a high proportion of all Russian women were working as" teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of... 4%. Or that my claim about this figure was just based on an estimate that I read in one book about one city, even though it was contradicted by the numbers collected by local people investigating the reality at the time.

    I don't know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%.

    Exclude children and pensioners, and the proportion of young women would be even higher, if this figure was true. And then it’s people currently passing through the work, so the total who pass through in a lifetime becomes higher again than currently working women.

    I’m not saying it is a reliable data, or that we infer anything. I’m not saying I’m knowledgeable enough to assess this claim. Just that the source is matches what I had intended in my original post meaning.

    I don’t know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

    I’m not defending the claim, just that it matches the narrative in those books.

    Anyway, the interesting thing is in detail the texts I posted, not me or you arguing pedantics.

    That is, the claim that prostitution “increases massively under Franco” (Paul Preston), while there is a moral campaign in the media or culture by the government. That is, such a government censoring morality, and then you might often see divergence at the reality.

    I added this fact just to mention such a divergence. E.g. When the Second Spanish Republic government bans prostitution in 1935, and this ban is removed in 1941 by Franco’s government.

    I wrote that in the USSR “a high proportion of all Russian women were working as” teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%

    The number of people working as teachers is less than 1% of the total population today.

    So I interpret a claim about 4% of the total female population of a city like Barcelona as prostitutes, sounds very high proportion.

    But for discussing Franco’s Spain, I’m sure there are many more interesting things to mention. I just used an example I remembered.

    Offtopic.

    A story I read recently about Franco’s regime, was about the “stolen babies”, which reminds a bit of the “Yemenite Children Affair” in Israel (in which children of Yemenite immigrants were reported to be dead by hospitals, and given to families for adoption).

    “Known as the lost children of the Franco-era, as many as 300,000 babies are estimated to have been abducted from their mothers under General Francisco Franco, who ruled Spain from 1939-75, and in the decades after.”

    “The theft of newborns began in the 1930’s after the Spanish Civil War as an ideological practice, stripping left-wing parents or Franco-opponents of their children as a way of ridding Marxist influence from society. But in the 1950’s, the practice expanded to poor or illegitimate families who were seen as economically or morally deficient, Agence France-Presse reports.”

    https://time.com/5321938/spain-stolen-babies-franco-trial/

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    But for discussing Franco’s Spain, I’m sure there are many more interesting things to mention. I just used an example I remembered.
     
    Your original claim, taken literally, was pretty absurd, whether you want to realize it or not. But I wouldn't say that living conditions in post-war Spain is an uninteresting topic. The pretty long Amazon preview of the book mentioned by Coconuts was very engaging for me and I'd like to read the whole report at some point.

    However, the amount of prostitution in the postwar years plays no role at all in how Spaniards became woker than other Europeans. Even my parents (one already deceased) were probably too young to learn much about the matter and there were much more important and stark inconsistencies in Franco's moral standards than an ambiguous treatment of prostitution in those initial years. In general, Spaniards didn't grow tired of Franco because he was more or less inconsistent. They grew tired of the whole thing because the National-Catholicism doctrine was old, outdated, repressive, boring as hell and culturally had set them decades back from their European peers, even the poorer ones.

  212. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Maybe the Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills with English
     
    Well, they did have weapons later on. But it's not a bad guess. They are verbally quite astute. However, this does not explain why other peoples that were subjected to tyranny did not develop this light heartedness and charitability (such as our own people).

    And you're making a similar point as I tried to make. It seems their openness to the world comes from the feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas). Whereas certain other Western types go about it with a kind of a self-righteous fanaticism which seems to be more about status and the desire to control others and to impose their will on others.

    Of course, having wokeness arise from the victim narrative is not all that flattering... those things should be separated.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird

    feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas)

    Ireland is such a strong example to me, that in the culture, people can really seem trained to be socially intelligent, talkative and responsive.

    Because there is really a lot of cultural divergence in this area. If you compare London and Dublin, and in Dublin there is immediate culture shock that the people have some kind of higher responsiveness or engagement level setting on.

    Do you think more extraverted, social people, people are actually nicer though? My intuition is the other way round.

    If you can give an appearance of being nice, then it means less pressure to actually be nice. It doesn’t cost anything to seem nice. If you can be charming with the teacher, you don’t need to do as much homework.

    Not that I tested. But if you were homeless in Dublin, I’m not sure you should bet people on average would really help you more than in London. But you should bet that in Dublin, most people will seem more like they want to help you.

    tyranny did not develop this light heartedness.

    And in Finland, the opposite.

    Maybe Catholicism, rather than occupation, has made people more charming in Ireland? Catholics have some of the friendliest nationalities, like Philippines, Brazilian and Mexican.

    But then… in France or Austria, or a lot of Germany, there is a lot of Catholic history, and not so much superficial charm to strangers. I guess with this cultural discussion, usually there seem as many counter-examples than correlations.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    If you compare London and Dublin, and in Dublin there is an immediate culture shock that the people have some kind of higher responsiveness
     
    There is, of course, more of a big city or almost imperial vibe in London as opposed to Dublin. But even in London people are outwardly nicer than in Eastern Europe. The British are typically very polite and outwardly friendly but then they go about their lives and are quite individualistic. Which is ok once you're accultured to it and act accordingly. Whereas the Irish are just altogether warmer, at least in Dublin. Maybe in Western Ireland they're a bit more colder? There is a very rugged sea faring culture on that side.


    Do you think extroverted, social people are actually nicer though?
     
    I've recently started believing that, yes. After Covid. Maybe the more extroverted cultures, when problems hit, tend to solve them on a more private level whereas the more colder cultures tend to refer to institutions? Which in this day and age... if you ask me, the first option might actually be better. But who knows.

    When I was about your age and younger, extroverts used to annoy the heck out of me. I can totally see how you enjoy solitude. Now I appreciate them more. I have a Latin acquaintance who really likes helping me out, without being asked, and who started calling me "a friend" after, like, 3 months of communicating and she was always the one who sought out the friendship first. And it turned out that she was more charitable than all the introverts. But this is ofc subjective. At some point our connection started really showing (I'm half Latgalian/culturally Catholic despite everything). And sometimes it can go even deeper with romantic relationships and can actually determine who is born and who connects with who. Although I still need a lot of alone time and typically do not long to chit chat with strangers like the extroverts do. In my culture we don't show emotions either, but I actually find it more human that Slavic women, for instance, show more emotions.

    Btw, in this context I was thinking recently of Max Korzh whom we talked about in the other thread. He's all about that somewhat collectivist culture of many patsans together and everyone huddling together. Back in the day it would've seemed kind of off-putting to me but now that I can view it from a distance it's actually quite sweet. You always have someone to rely on, like a family. It would probably be too tight for me but I definitely see the benefits. It also makes it obvious how and why the Slavic expansion happened.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  213. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    1940 the population of Barcelona was over a million:

     

    Lol this is pedantic, and I knew when I was writing it that I should write - "Around a million". So either way, the claim would imply 4% of the Barcelona women at any time. Which is a crazy high number, and actually matches what I originally wrote.

    I'm not commenting whether this is true or not. Just that it matches what I have read in a bookshop. I also remember reading about in Zaragoza though (whereas here only about Barcelona).


    once again. Prostitution was never “officially sanctioned” in Francoist
     
    Whichever exact phrase, what was written in your post does not match the history book text, which says it was not illegal until 1956, and official brothels were under government supervision. I'm just referring to the text in the history book, as my only information comes from what I read briefly sitting in a bookshop.

    There was actually a legal decision of 1941, in which they reject the prohibition of prostitution. https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:697822/

    https://i.imgur.com/JNYvaoa.jpg


    No, the claim that “a high proportion of all Spanish women were working as prostitutes

     

    I think the book where I saw these claims is "Mujeres caídas: prostitutas legales y clandestinas en el franquismo" (2003), as I read this in a Spanish bookshop.

    I was searching for the last 15 minutes online for this specifically, and I can access for free books by the author's father (a nuclear scientist). But maybe someone (like German Reader) can access it through the university.

    It was not Paul Preston (searching his books, he writes there was a "massive increase in prostitution under Franco").

    There is an article Wikipedia Spanish about the author.
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirta_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez


    <blockquote I need to argue with you, until you provide some credible source for that assertion.
     It's a very common narrative of the history books and also historians write "prostitution was legal".

    So my amateur writing that prostitution was legal under Franco, matches the words of professional historians - and I am a person who has not even read history books fully, although the legally registered number is low.

    So if you want to argue about the phrasing of the words (legal or not), then I am not the one you can blame.

    https://i.imgur.com/JfcEv8d.jpg

    https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Fear+and+Progress%3A+Ordinary+Lives+in+Franco%27s+Spain%2C+1939+1975-p-9781405133166

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel, @Pericles

    I wonder how we should evaluate countries like the Netherlands or Germany where prostitution is currently legalized? Or the US, where it’s usually not legal but nowadays seems to be largely ignored. Or Sweden, where it’s quasi-legalized-but-not in a sort of sex-positive feminist thought-pretzel.

    (All of this in spite of current extremely loose public morals compared to the 1950s.)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Pericles


    I wonder how we should evaluate countries like the Netherlands or Germany where prostitution is currently legalized?
     
    Obviously these are pretty degenerate societies (and I'm not in favour of Germany's prostitution laws, and the idea that "sex work" should be seen as a job like any other). Prostitution is however something done mostly by women from abroad.
    Germany has about 40 000 officially registered prostitutes:
    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2020/07/PD20_286_228.html

    Only about 7700 have German citizenship...whereas a whopping 14 300 (35%) have Romanian citizenship. Bulgaria (11%) and Hungary (8%) are also well-represented (I wonder if there's some gypsy factor involved here).
  214. From – https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044305
    … In the UK, the wind has ended again..
    At the moment, the huge British fields of wind turbines in the North Sea are giving out:
    Wind 0.66GW of 15GW installed capacity. This is only 1.74% of the total electricity produced in the country.
    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Mike_from_Russia

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iVmJRAyJVY&list=UUnH6QL7JCDRp9HBXtm4mqxg

    Annalena did it again.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia

  215. @Mike_from_Russia
    From - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1044305
    ... In the UK, the wind has ended again..
    At the moment, the huge British fields of wind turbines in the North Sea are giving out:
    Wind 0.66GW of 15GW installed capacity. This is only 1.74% of the total electricity produced in the country.
    https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    Replies: @Aedib

    Annalena did it again.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_Russia
    @Aedib

    Turn green until you're blue in the face!!!!
    With love, your Gazprom.

  216. @Jatt Aryaa
    @songbird

    All Indo European Gods have long hair.
    Sikhs are not unique but merely a codified version

    Of the universal & primordial Arya culture
    Down to the unshorn hair & weapons worship

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/comments/fflm3c/ares_and_the_scythian_sword_cult/

    Replies: @Yevardian, @songbird

    Long hair was also the male norm across much of Medieval and 17th Century Europe, what of it?

    Continuing this obsessive reverence for the central asian Aryans which (repeatedly, in waves spanning from the Vedics to Greeks to the British) enslaved and subjugated your dravidian pajeet ancestors? It is an odd Indian fixation.

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it, but presumably its arguing that Atilla’s Huns were Indo-Scythian? Because frankly, that doesn’t make any sense, as even in their homeland they were replaced (or more likely, a few decisive skirmishes were followed by a mass change in tribal allegiance) by the Sarmatians. The White Huns (Hephthalites) in Asia and ‘western’ Huns of Atilla are now considered to be entirely unrelated by most scholars, the identity of the latter is debated, but they almost certainly weren’t Indo-European.

    Incidentally, Sikhism owes it’s existence as a Hindu/Dharmic reaction to Abrahamic religion, it has nothing to do with whatever re-constructed elements are known from the paganism of PIE steppe peoples.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Yevardian


    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it
     
    This is one of my great pet peeves. As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I'll be looking up some headline and I'll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can't be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative. Similarly, the nightly news is not informative, it is entertainment first and foremost. This seems true with any visual medium.

    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action. I mean, cripes! This IS why language was developed; as a mode of accurately conveying meaning!

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    , @sher singh
    @Yevardian

    Armenian, you haven't given your allotment of concubines to Negros this month.
    I'm a Jatt we arrived in the sub-con way later, and I know Panjabis bully you wherever you are..

    I haven't watched the video, and also we're patrilineal. You give women to niggers, we carry sword. :shrug:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640459736919048202/921398206187855963/j7f1jrz9wbl41.png

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  217. DUESSELDORF/FRANKFURT, Dec 16 (Reuters) – The German energy regulator’s eagerly-awaited decision on fully certifying the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline won’t come in the first half of next year, it said on Thursday, in a setback for the Russian project that has sparked global political tensions.

    “There will be no decisions in the first half (of 2022),” Bundesnetzagentur (BNetzA) President Jochen Homann said with regard to the certification process.

    The pipeline was built to carry Russian gas directly to Germany, bypassing Ukraine – currently a major transit route for Russian supplies. It has been completed for months but it remains unclear when deliveries will start.

    Russia’s foreign ministry last week said it hoped the Gazprom-led (GAZP.MM) pipeline would receive its certification in the spring, RIA news agency reported.

    Pressure on the project has intensified in recent weeks in light of diplomatic tensions between Moscow and western nations, mainly triggered by fears of a possible Russian attack on Ukraine. read more

    The European Union, which depends on Russia for gas, has warned of “unprecedented measures” against the country if it shows further aggression towards Ukraine, which could include sanctions on the pipeline. read more

    BNetzA said the operating company of Nord Stream 2 had started the process of setting up a subsidiary in Germany as required under German law.

    It had halted its certification process – originally due to run until Jan. 8 – last month, pending the creation of the German subsidiary to comply with the law.

    This creation has been initiated by Nord Stream 2, Homann said, adding that the BNetzA’s review period would start again the moment Nord Stream AG delivered the required documents.

    “This is not in our hands. Nord Stream AG alone is making that decision,” he said.

    Once the BNetzA has made a decision it will go to the European Union, which will then have another two months to review it, a period that can be extended by a further two months if needed.

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-regulator-says-nord-stream-2-launch-not-expected-h1-2022-2021-12-16/

  218. @Mikel
    @Agathoklis


    I know Spaniards from the regions that will not identify with conservatism because they see it as being closely tied to Castille even though they tend to be conservative.
     
    You seem to know Spain very well. I think I know which 2 regions those people may be from and they probably don't much like being called Spaniards (in part for the very same reason they don't even want to admit that they're conservatives, like those backward Castilians).

    Replies: @Yevardian

    No need for insinuation, I’m almost certain this refers to Catalonia and the Basque Country. I suppose Spanish history is somewhat unusual within Europe, in that the richest and most socially developed areas of the country have also been also been on the geographic and linguistic periphery in relation to the political centre, Castille.
    Although wasn’t the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars? Granted, they had their own self-interested reasons (F-f… fourist? don’t recall the name, autonomy privileges) but Carlism can hardly be described as anything but ultra-conservative, whatever a hodgepodge of ideas it was.

    Perhaps in a timeline where Franco was sufficiently stupid or vainglorious for Hitler to successfully bribe him into the war, we would have seen Spain broken up into its distinct ethnic parts.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Yevardian


    Although wasn’t the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars?
     
    Yes. Basques in those wars were fighting both for their regional privileges and for a more traditionalist/reactionary king in Spain.

    But several things happened at the end of the 19th century that transformed the relationship of Basques with Spain forever: the defeat in the Carlists wars, the loss of the last Spanish colonies, that definitely turned Spain into a European backwater and the massive influx of poor Spanish immigrants to the Basque industrial towns, that created a big cultural shock in the autochthonous population. Francoist repression and the intensification of immigration in the post-war years only exacerbated the problem.

    The linguistic and ethnic divide had always been there but it didn't become much of a problem until the 19th century.

    Replies: @Yevardian

    , @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    richest and most socially developed areas of the country have also been also been on the geographic and linguistic periphery
     
    Well in the Russian Empire in 19th century, the most socially developed nationalities were Estonians, Germans, Finns, Poles. Latvians.

    Also in the United Kingdom, if you think about Edinburgh - which is one of the main intellectual and culture center of modern European history. But Edinburgh in that time was not occupied, but part of a voluntary unified Kingdom with London.

    It's funny to compare Edinburgh and Dublin, where Edinburgh is one of the most visually impressive cities of Europe, while Dublin you can really see in its building history, the relative poverty under occupation.


    Catalonia and the Basque
     
    From what I remember of the history book I read, these regions became very wealthy and developed in the late 19th century, under their powerful local bourgeoisie.

    They have been among the most economically successful parts of Spain since at least the late 19th century. But I'm not sure if this was such a divergence from a mainland Spain before the 19th century.

  219. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Paul Preston is a historian who had/has quite strong opinions about the Franco
     
    I can't say much about this topic, as I only read about Spain in the bookshop to improve my Spanish language skill. I don't really know much about Spanish history, beyond skimming a few pages in the bookshop.

    Still Mikel needs to argue less with me, and more with whatever they write about Spanish history in the bookshops, because I just remember those books.

    What I found interesting about Paul Preston, is that his books are promoted in the book shops in Madrid, as the most authoritative historian, even while they are translated to Spanish from English.

    So when I was in the bookshop in Madrid and trying to read Spanish history books, the most promoted ones can be English authors. And Paul Preston is one of the main books I saw in Madrid bookshops.

    -

    If I remember talking about this in the forum before. Because I remember Paul Preston books are the most promoted 20th century Spanish history books in the Spanish bookshops.

    And I didn't want to read Spanish books with an English author, so I was searching bookshops in Madrid, trying to find something to buy from a Spanish historian.

    Scary that I about wrote this here on the forum 3,2 years ago. It feels like I wrote it a few hours ago. (Our life and youth is dying so fast).
    https://i.imgur.com/J9i261Z.jpg

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/petre-tutea-on-russians/#comment-2598018

    Replies: @Yevardian

    That sounds awful, I noticed the same thing in Finland and the Baltics a while ago, but I simply regarded Anglo-domination as inevitable they have such a small local language market, and such brief literary histories.
    But in Spain? The source of the second most commonly spoken native tongue on the planet? I know Spain has always been quite intellectually backward compared to any other European country of comparable size and power, but wow, in Madrid? That’s really quite grim.

    Although, almost all major bookstores just sell either the usual bestselling trash, alongside extremely similar sections of ‘serious’ books across dozens of chains. It’s invariably more rewarding to go to a 2nd-hand bookstore, not to mention it’s usually cheaper anyway. The owners behind the counter who pilot these commerical deathships usually have decent taste too, as opposed to chains where the manager will pride themselves as belonging to some ridiculous ‘bookclub’, at best..

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    intellectually backward
     
    I'm not sure it is intellectually backward in terms of fiction, but there is definitely outsourcing.

    The largest section for untranslated fiction in the book shops, is the Latin American literature section. So the main production of the untranslated literature they buy in Spain, is from South and Central America.

    But they also read a lot of German/French/Italian literature, translated to Spanish language.

    Aside from reading Latin American literature, I think they follow mainly French fashions for literature.

    For translated fiction, promoted in book shops in Spain are writers like Joseph Roth, Irène Némirovsky, Umberto Eco. I.e. it's the kind of fashionable translated writers for French reading public.

    For documentary literature, they are selling books translated from the anglosaxon publishing world.

    In the end I was able to buy a "History of Spain" book written by a Spanish professor. This book very idealizes Al-Andalus and the Moor's occupation in Spain.


    Anglo-domination as inevitable they have such a small local language market, and such brief literary
     
    I think they have more influence from France in literature taste, while in documentary literature it's importing products from the anglosaxon publishing world. (Which is also in Russia - importing documentary literature from anglosaxon publishing).

    Anglosaxon fictional literature taste is kind of "outlying" in strange ways.

    For example, if you look in bookshops in England, the most promoted or fashionable 20th century Russian writer is Solzhenitsyn, which young anglosaxon hipsters love. Whereas in Russia, few reads Solzhenitsyn (it's definitely unfashionable, especially with young people).

    But in Spain, it seems like taste has been determined more by France than England - that is, writers like Joseph Roth are fashionable in France/Spain, but not in England.

    Spain is kind of receiving the Paris fashions for literature. Whereas in London they have their own world, with its very unusual tastes.


    major bookstores just sell either the usual bestselling trash, alongside extremely similar sections of ‘serious’ books across dozens of chains. It’s invariably more rewarding to go to a 2nd-hand
     
    Because often the best history books are not being printed. Whereas in the commercial bookshops, they only sell currently printed books.

    Perhaps surprisingly, but I think the world's best book shops (with not currently printed books) are in the USA.

    Replies: @Yevardian

  220. So far RF energetic blackmail hasn’t been working as desired, but maybe their plan is exactly to get the physical flow shortages through other gas routes in the middle of the winter, but keep NS fully technically loaded meanwhile hoping to get some kind of extra exemptions during manufactured “energy crisis” if needed?:

    MOSCOW, December 17. /TASS/. The gas-in procedure for the second string of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline started on December 17, the operator of the Nord Stream 2 project said in a statement on Friday.

    “Like the first string, the second string will be gradually filled with gas to build the required inventory and pressure,” the statement said.

    Earlier, pre-commissioning activities on the second string were completed successfully to assure the pipeline integrity.

    Nord Stream 2 will inform about further technical steps in due time, according to the statement.

    “The pipeline is built and independently certified according to applicable technical and industry standards to ensure reliable and safe operations,” the operator noted.

    https://tass.com/economy/1377135

  221. @Yevardian
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Long hair was also the male norm across much of Medieval and 17th Century Europe, what of it?

    Continuing this obsessive reverence for the central asian Aryans which (repeatedly, in waves spanning from the Vedics to Greeks to the British) enslaved and subjugated your dravidian pajeet ancestors? It is an odd Indian fixation.

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I'm certainly not going to watch it, but presumably its arguing that Atilla's Huns were Indo-Scythian? Because frankly, that doesn't make any sense, as even in their homeland they were replaced (or more likely, a few decisive skirmishes were followed by a mass change in tribal allegiance) by the Sarmatians. The White Huns (Hephthalites) in Asia and 'western' Huns of Atilla are now considered to be entirely unrelated by most scholars, the identity of the latter is debated, but they almost certainly weren't Indo-European.

    Incidentally, Sikhism owes it's existence as a Hindu/Dharmic reaction to Abrahamic religion, it has nothing to do with whatever re-constructed elements are known from the paganism of PIE steppe peoples.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sher singh

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it

    This is one of my great pet peeves. As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I’ll be looking up some headline and I’ll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can’t be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative. Similarly, the nightly news is not informative, it is entertainment first and foremost. This seems true with any visual medium.

    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action. I mean, cripes! This IS why language was developed; as a mode of accurately conveying meaning!

    • Agree: AP, A123, Mikel
    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa

    I certainly try to avoid video for basic facts where possible. However it is sometimes available when full transcripts are not. This has happened a few times recently with Ted Cruz and Gov. DeSantis.

    It is almost as if Fake Stream Media and major search engines are then concealing what was said.... Of course.... They would never do that.... Right?

    It is much easier for Yverdian's Lügenpresse to cover up text he does not like versus speech recognition on video. I believe the Cruz video was via Rumble to provide extra anti censorship protection.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    I generally tend to agree with your sentiments here, but will differ in one respect, especially about a "mixed media" like political cartoons. A well written political cartoon can be more effective in making a poignant point than either a written script or a picture standing all on its own.


    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action.

     

    It's even more frustrating when the picture and the instructions don't exactly line-up. Either the screw depicted doesn't exist within the ones supplied, or the area that you're supposed to address also somehow looks totally different or doesn't exist. This is probably manageable for somebody like yourself that seems to have a well nuanced ability for carpentering etc., but for the rest of us it can be cause for a minor nervous breakdown. :-)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    I actually like to receive information from YouTube videos nowadays. Just play YouTube videos on your television and it's relaxing. More amateur the videographer, the better/

    But I think the thing is to use video as the primary source, rather than secondary source.

    Obviously people speaking in YouTube videos, will be usually stupid, biased and non-informative, as listening to some amateur radio channel.

    But if you watch videos as a primary source? There is actually a somewhat direct way to learn something than reading about it, as - it might be selected by the videographer, but it's not filtered through the writer's biases.

    I mean nowadays you can watch Indian street culture instead of reading about it. See how unglobalized they are, etc.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-9L9ggc-HI

    Everyone who watches such videos will emerge with a different opinion, which is a sign of more direct information. Some people will love what they see in the Indian streets, others will hate it.

    Whereas, if you read an article, there is a desire of the writer to make the reader confirm to their own opinion. The writer can select certain items, and try to make the reader conform to a particular opinion. It's a sign of very indirect information in written text.

  222. @Agathoklis
    @Mikel

    I have also attributed the long Franco dictatorship as the cause of Spain's mad rush to hyper-liberalism compared to Italy. But how does that explain Greece? Greece also had long periods of so-called conservative 'reactionary' rule, even a dictatorship for seven years, but it remains more socially conservative than Spain. So the following schema: conservative, reactionary leads to hyper-liberalism
    and liberalism leads to conservative does not really hold.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Triteleia Laxa

    Recent Greek history, especially as regards the fear they have of Turkey explains this very well. Greek nationhood and freedom was a liberal cause. Lord Byron died in support of it. This creates a more widely held sympathy with Greek continuity and conservatism than somewhere like Spain, where the dominant nationalism is also, seen by the left, as an oppressor one.

    Greece is like Estonia, Israel and even Finland. Spain is more like Russia, Germany and Sweden, in this regard. Some nationalisms were historically rooted in progressive movements, other were not, or have had that sheen scratched off them by other history.

    • Replies: @Agathoklis
    @Triteleia Laxa

    This is a good point. Nationalism in Greece tends to cross party lines but manifests itself in different ways. The rise of SYRIZA and certain forms of New Left shocked many old nationalist Leftists because they challenged certain ideas about Greek history, identity and acceptance of non-Greeks. Greek nationalism was originally a very liberal cause and one of the most successful patriotic leaders, Venizelos was a liberal.

  223. @Barbarossa
    @Yevardian


    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it
     
    This is one of my great pet peeves. As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I'll be looking up some headline and I'll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can't be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative. Similarly, the nightly news is not informative, it is entertainment first and foremost. This seems true with any visual medium.

    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action. I mean, cripes! This IS why language was developed; as a mode of accurately conveying meaning!

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    I certainly try to avoid video for basic facts where possible. However it is sometimes available when full transcripts are not. This has happened a few times recently with Ted Cruz and Gov. DeSantis.

    It is almost as if Fake Stream Media and major search engines are then concealing what was said…. Of course…. They would never do that…. Right?

    It is much easier for Yverdian’s Lügenpresse to cover up text he does not like versus speech recognition on video. I believe the Cruz video was via Rumble to provide extra anti censorship protection.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I should hasten to add that I wasn't necessarily seconding Yevardian's shade towards you. It seemed rather mean spirited and unnecessary.
    The sentence just got me headed on a tangent.

    Replies: @A123

  224. sher singh says:
    @Yevardian
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Long hair was also the male norm across much of Medieval and 17th Century Europe, what of it?

    Continuing this obsessive reverence for the central asian Aryans which (repeatedly, in waves spanning from the Vedics to Greeks to the British) enslaved and subjugated your dravidian pajeet ancestors? It is an odd Indian fixation.

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I'm certainly not going to watch it, but presumably its arguing that Atilla's Huns were Indo-Scythian? Because frankly, that doesn't make any sense, as even in their homeland they were replaced (or more likely, a few decisive skirmishes were followed by a mass change in tribal allegiance) by the Sarmatians. The White Huns (Hephthalites) in Asia and 'western' Huns of Atilla are now considered to be entirely unrelated by most scholars, the identity of the latter is debated, but they almost certainly weren't Indo-European.

    Incidentally, Sikhism owes it's existence as a Hindu/Dharmic reaction to Abrahamic religion, it has nothing to do with whatever re-constructed elements are known from the paganism of PIE steppe peoples.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sher singh

    Armenian, you haven’t given your allotment of concubines to Negros this month.
    I’m a Jatt we arrived in the sub-con way later, and I know Panjabis bully you wherever you are..

    I haven’t watched the video, and also we’re patrilineal. You give women to niggers, we carry sword. :shrug:

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  225. @Beckow
    @A123


    ...DNC has unleashed Carter-flation 2.0...
     
    Inflation always undermines the existing power structure. For elite it is as bad as losing a war. They ruling liberals didn't unleash it willingly, by 2021 they had no better alternative. The cumulative debts cannot be paid back - defaults or a jubilee could trigger a catastrophic chain reaction. The only alternative was to use inflation to devalue debts gradually - it buys time.

    The reason the Fed fibs about it is that they want the inflation benefits without the bad publicity. It usually doesn't work. This will get ugly. If MAGA was allowed to implement its full program in 2017-20 - or if Trump had more willpower to push it through - it could have been avoided: closed borders, domestic reindustrialization, growing economy, higher incomes - together that would have stabilized the system.

    But it didn't happen and by 2025 things could be too decrepit to try again.

    Replies: @A123

    As I repeatedly point out, it was the U.S. system not the willpower of an individual.

    There was no visible alternative to achieve the outcome you, I, and others wanted. At that time the only way to beat the system would have been overthrowing the Constitution and declaring himself Emperor Triumphus I.

      

    While emotionally appealing to some, such hopes were naive & highly impractical. Such a rebellion would almost certainly have failed.
    ___

    The U.S. people, suffering under Not-The-President Biden’s illegitimate regime, are growing in willpower. Openly rigging an election worked once, but will not be tolerated again. Also, the GOP has genuinely adopted MAGA. There will be a MAGA House for Appropriations & (hopefully) Senate for Confirmations.

    The key to escaping the inflation trap is making sufficient physical goods in the U.S. Despite SJW Sabotage, energy independence will be available for the next administration. If the President, Senate, and House together have the will, it is not too late. If only one has the willpower, we are probably looking at a Civil War and an end to the Constitution as it currently exists.
    ___

    There is one thing that is guaranteed to produce failure. Joining team #NeverTrump because Trump failed to achieve the unachievable in his 1st Term. Irrational low-IQ yahoos want Biden to have 8 years in puppet office & permanent DNC rule. Why? Because the impossible was impossible. That hurt their feelings. One cannot use logic to dissuade people from that magnitude of emotion based SJW irrationality.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  226. If you fell for the EM hype-train you got burned, badly.

    Most of EM just rode the China-driven commodities supercycle (2000-2013) and had precious little fundamentals to sustain them beyond that. The only developing region that I am fairly optimistic about is ASEAN, specifically countries like Vietnam. India should do okay, but not great. Rest are largely hopeless. Expect migration to pick up.

    We can see the signs all around us. Argentina, Lebanon, Venezuela now even Turkey… the list just keeps getting longer.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?

    If you look in the Vanguard Emerging Market ETF. It seems most of your money would go to China and Taiwan.
    https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/portfolio/vwo

    Due to the political level, money invested in China is a bit of a dangerous Casino and I'm not sure how the 0,3% in EU countries like Hungary will save you. But at least there is 20% in Taiwan, which seems more politically (if not geopolitically) safe.

    https://i.imgur.com/bHtweLf.jpg

    And then I would worry why they add your money to companies Alibaba and Tencent, which appear undervalued, but also politically vulnerable.

    I would expect emerging market investments in "serious core industries", but instead they add much of your money for e-commerce platforms that can be politically expropriated.

    At least "Emerging Market" investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC. And TSMC would generate a lot of money for them in the last year.


    https://i.imgur.com/aPyWaeO.jpg

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

  227. @AP
    @songbird


    Where are the Indians in Haiti?
     
    The pre-Columbian population in Haiti was tiny - in couple 10,000s, per genetic research. At least half probably died of disease.

    Quebec then becomes even smaller than New England


    New England has areas which are unarable or so acidic that they are arable for only very specific crops like cranberries, and it is fairly narrow and somewhat constrained by mountains.
     
    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State, which has lots of arable land and was once the heartland of the large Iroquois confederacy.

    Anyway, I don’t think that either of us are expert enough to understand what the expected number of Indians should be.
     
    Sure, but a discrepancy of that magnitude makes it hard to conclude that the French Catholics in Quebec didn't treat the natives a lot better than did the Calvinist Puritans.

    My main disagreement with you is in your moral condemnation of European settlement in America.
     
    French and Russians were fairly benign, Spaniards were on balance good (anything bad done by then was more than compensated for by the destruction of the evil demon-worshipping Aztec Empire), English were brutal and bad to the natives. That they then built a successful and prosperous society for themselves (and those who joined them) - more so than did the others in North America - speaks to the success of English governance and customs for their own people.

    your family being more recent transplants, with zero perceived interest in maintaining a traditional American identity
     
    I'd like America to remain as it is (well, until recently, but it still has a long way to fall), because it is a good place to live and my kids and grandkids will be here.

    If somehow the place was like Paraguay, would your family have come?
     
    They would have stayed in Western Europe. Some of them did.

    Ukrainians who moved to Paraguay became rich farmers and landowners though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Paraguay


    If you had any sense of propriety, you ought to be thanking them, rather than condemning them and looking to score points off of them.
     
    I condemn evil where I see it. Genocide is evil. I wouldn't have existed if Hitler hadn't invaded the USSR, an invasion that involved tens of millions of deaths.. Should I be thankful for that, as I should be thankful for Calvinists for wiping out much of a continent?

    Indians loved nothing so much as killing each other.
     
    I don't pretend they were better, of course. Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.

    Replies: @songbird

    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State

    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.

    We are talking about slash and burn agriculture here, and probably without the slash, due to lack of metallurgy. Have you ever tried to cut down an oak tree with a stone axe? (I’m sure that it can’t be done.)

    Better comparison of resources would not be assumed quantification of agricultural potential for Indians, but rather how many deer and moose in the woods, fish in the rivers, nuts from the trees, berries on the bushes? How many beaver pelts to be traded? And I would suppose that Quebec would clearly be the winner here.

    [MORE]

    Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.

    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?

    Should I be thankful for that, as I should be thankful for Calvinists for wiping out much of a continent?

    i don’t get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture, then I have read American Indian myths, and you can too. They were super-primitive. Frankly, a lot of their stories stink, and some of the more meritorious probably have dubious origin. The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English. They gambled over their gold artifacts and melted them down into bullion, instead of preserving them. They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone. It is said that the Inca, used to have some sort of tower, and that it was filled to the top with their dead bodies, after they made a last ditch defense.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people’s hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines. There were many native rebellions against the Spanish. I don’t think you have a leg to stand on historically.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn’t have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.

    I condemn evil where I see it.

    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago, and which you have fantastically benefited from.

    True ethics is consequentialism. What good comes from denouncing them now? And trying to compare them? Clearly, they are all lumped together as “white”, and it is being used as a justification to invade both America and Europe, and for many other kinds of evil.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State

    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.
     
    Not the area of habitable land.

    Prior to European settlement (but after the plagues), in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000, depending on the source. I couldn't find an estimate for Quebec specifically but Canada as a whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?

    Yet today there are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec and only around 30,000 in New England.

    "Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict."

    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?
     
    Point taken. You are correct. I was thinking in terms of totally annihilating their enemies as the Iroquois did to the Hurons, rather than the means of this destruction.

    i don’t get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture
     
    It stems from a comparison of the relatively humane treatment of natives by the Catholic and Orthodox powers with their near-total destruction by the Anglo Calvinists.

    The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English.
     
    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    But they didn't just slaughter the natives. They brought to them the beautiful aspects of European high culture, taught them to read and write, etc.

    They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone.
     
    Correction: they transformed crude pyramids where people's beating hearts had been ripped out as a sacrifice to demon-gods, into beautiful baroque cathedrals where natives sang pretty songs rather than getting eviscerated by priests wearing costumes made of human skin.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people’s hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines.
     
    Sure, it wasn't perfect, there were a lot of greedy adventurous bastards involved. Though it's not like the native peasants had it better before the Spaniards showed up - they had been slaves periodically harvested for sacrifice. Eventually they just became southern Euro-style peasants.

    Pretty soon, the natives were better off thanks to Spanish contact. You can't say the same about the ones encountering the English.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn’t have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.
     
    English authorities weren't as bad as Calvinist colonists (who themselves had a difficult relationship with the Crown). But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians. More than New England, but only half the number as in Quebec.

    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago
     
    What is sanctimonious about condemning something evil?

    and which you have fantastically benefited from
     
    I also benefited from Hitler's invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore? Many prosperous Jews whose ancestors made it out of some small poverty-stricken Eastern European shtetl to come to America benefited from pogroms or the Holocaust that got their ancestors to leave. They shouldn't condemn such crimes?

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils. So? The evils shouldn't be described for what they are?

    Replies: @utu, @songbird

  228. @Jatt Aryaa
    @songbird

    All Indo European Gods have long hair.
    Sikhs are not unique but merely a codified version

    Of the universal & primordial Arya culture
    Down to the unshorn hair & weapons worship

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/comments/fflm3c/ares_and_the_scythian_sword_cult/

    Replies: @Yevardian, @songbird

    Not sure Huns were PIE. Maybe.

    But it seems like they practiced some pretty weird customs. Cranial deformation (albeit was seemingly copied by some Germans). And I have heard that they also defoliated their beards by scarification from knives or burning. (though I am scratching my head over this, isn’t Attila described as having a short beard?)

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @songbird

    I just wanted to post the photo that's now in Yeverdian's in-law information comment.

    The cult of the Sword is ancient & illustrious.
    PIE is a meme made by Anglos & Jews at Harvard, who cares?
    Worship weapons, lift weights.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640459736919048202/921496688143786004/unknown.png

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  229. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%.
     
    Exclude children and pensioners, and the proportion of young women would be even higher, if this figure was true. And then it's people currently passing through the work, so the total who pass through in a lifetime becomes higher again than currently working women.

    I'm not saying it is a reliable data, or that we infer anything. I'm not saying I'm knowledgeable enough to assess this claim. Just that the source is matches what I had intended in my original post meaning.


    I don’t know why you feel the need to defend this claim with some much energy. Whatever.

     

    I'm not defending the claim, just that it matches the narrative in those books.

    Anyway, the interesting thing is in detail the texts I posted, not me or you arguing pedantics.

    That is, the claim that prostitution "increases massively under Franco" (Paul Preston), while there is a moral campaign in the media or culture by the government. That is, such a government censoring morality, and then you might often see divergence at the reality.

    I added this fact just to mention such a divergence. E.g. When the Second Spanish Republic government bans prostitution in 1935, and this ban is removed in 1941 by Franco's government.


    I wrote that in the USSR “a high proportion of all Russian women were working as” teachers nobody would think that I was speaking of the crazy high figure of… 4%
     
    The number of people working as teachers is less than 1% of the total population today.

    So I interpret a claim about 4% of the total female population of a city like Barcelona as prostitutes, sounds very high proportion.

    But for discussing Franco's Spain, I'm sure there are many more interesting things to mention. I just used an example I remembered.

    -

    Offtopic.

    A story I read recently about Franco's regime, was about the "stolen babies", which reminds a bit of the "Yemenite Children Affair" in Israel (in which children of Yemenite immigrants were reported to be dead by hospitals, and given to families for adoption).

    "Known as the lost children of the Franco-era, as many as 300,000 babies are estimated to have been abducted from their mothers under General Francisco Franco, who ruled Spain from 1939-75, and in the decades after."

    "The theft of newborns began in the 1930’s after the Spanish Civil War as an ideological practice, stripping left-wing parents or Franco-opponents of their children as a way of ridding Marxist influence from society. But in the 1950’s, the practice expanded to poor or illegitimate families who were seen as economically or morally deficient, Agence France-Presse reports."

    https://time.com/5321938/spain-stolen-babies-franco-trial/

    Replies: @Mikel

    But for discussing Franco’s Spain, I’m sure there are many more interesting things to mention. I just used an example I remembered.

    Your original claim, taken literally, was pretty absurd, whether you want to realize it or not. But I wouldn’t say that living conditions in post-war Spain is an uninteresting topic. The pretty long Amazon preview of the book mentioned by Coconuts was very engaging for me and I’d like to read the whole report at some point.

    However, the amount of prostitution in the postwar years plays no role at all in how Spaniards became woker than other Europeans. Even my parents (one already deceased) were probably too young to learn much about the matter and there were much more important and stark inconsistencies in Franco’s moral standards than an ambiguous treatment of prostitution in those initial years. In general, Spaniards didn’t grow tired of Franco because he was more or less inconsistent. They grew tired of the whole thing because the National-Catholicism doctrine was old, outdated, repressive, boring as hell and culturally had set them decades back from their European peers, even the poorer ones.

  230. German_reader says:
    @Pericles
    @Dmitry

    I wonder how we should evaluate countries like the Netherlands or Germany where prostitution is currently legalized? Or the US, where it's usually not legal but nowadays seems to be largely ignored. Or Sweden, where it's quasi-legalized-but-not in a sort of sex-positive feminist thought-pretzel.

    (All of this in spite of current extremely loose public morals compared to the 1950s.)

    Replies: @German_reader

    I wonder how we should evaluate countries like the Netherlands or Germany where prostitution is currently legalized?

    Obviously these are pretty degenerate societies (and I’m not in favour of Germany’s prostitution laws, and the idea that “sex work” should be seen as a job like any other). Prostitution is however something done mostly by women from abroad.
    Germany has about 40 000 officially registered prostitutes:
    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2020/07/PD20_286_228.html

    Only about 7700 have German citizenship…whereas a whopping 14 300 (35%) have Romanian citizenship. Bulgaria (11%) and Hungary (8%) are also well-represented (I wonder if there’s some gypsy factor involved here).

  231. @Yevardian
    @Mikel

    No need for insinuation, I'm almost certain this refers to Catalonia and the Basque Country. I suppose Spanish history is somewhat unusual within Europe, in that the richest and most socially developed areas of the country have also been also been on the geographic and linguistic periphery in relation to the political centre, Castille.
    Although wasn't the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars? Granted, they had their own self-interested reasons (F-f... fourist? don't recall the name, autonomy privileges) but Carlism can hardly be described as anything but ultra-conservative, whatever a hodgepodge of ideas it was.

    Perhaps in a timeline where Franco was sufficiently stupid or vainglorious for Hitler to successfully bribe him into the war, we would have seen Spain broken up into its distinct ethnic parts.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Dmitry

    Although wasn’t the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars?

    Yes. Basques in those wars were fighting both for their regional privileges and for a more traditionalist/reactionary king in Spain.

    But several things happened at the end of the 19th century that transformed the relationship of Basques with Spain forever: the defeat in the Carlists wars, the loss of the last Spanish colonies, that definitely turned Spain into a European backwater and the massive influx of poor Spanish immigrants to the Basque industrial towns, that created a big cultural shock in the autochthonous population. Francoist repression and the intensification of immigration in the post-war years only exacerbated the problem.

    The linguistic and ethnic divide had always been there but it didn’t become much of a problem until the 19th century.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Mikel

    Btw, are you native Euskadi-speaker? I guess you're of that heritage, from your name at least.

    I'm curious what the linguistic situation on the ground is, whether people other than old people and peasants still speak it unselfconsciously, whether there's any decent media produced in it, etcaetera. I was trying to search for Welsh-language stuff (in Welsh, I have a basic understanding of it) on youtube, for a rough indication of whether it has any traction with young people, but 99% of videos were just learning-progress videos, or BBC-Cymraeg clips with no comments.
    I suppose these Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also in that they're the only parts of the Western Empire where people still speak the same languages as before the Romans.. I guess you could add Berber in Morocco too. In the East I think (other than Greek) the only surviving local tongues from antiquity are Albanian, Georgian and Armenian.

    I'm just thinking that by far the most famous writers from Wales, Ireland and Basque-Country (respectively, Rhys Davies, James Joyce and Unamuno), either weren't raised with their parents' native language, or had a very opinion of it.. Joyce dismissed Irish-revivalism as cringe play-acting, and Unamuno even said agglutinative languages were 'poorly suited for expressing complex abstract ideas'.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Dmitry

  232. @Barbarossa
    @Yevardian


    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it
     
    This is one of my great pet peeves. As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I'll be looking up some headline and I'll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can't be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative. Similarly, the nightly news is not informative, it is entertainment first and foremost. This seems true with any visual medium.

    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action. I mean, cripes! This IS why language was developed; as a mode of accurately conveying meaning!

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    I generally tend to agree with your sentiments here, but will differ in one respect, especially about a “mixed media” like political cartoons. A well written political cartoon can be more effective in making a poignant point than either a written script or a picture standing all on its own.

    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action.

    It’s even more frustrating when the picture and the instructions don’t exactly line-up. Either the screw depicted doesn’t exist within the ones supplied, or the area that you’re supposed to address also somehow looks totally different or doesn’t exist. This is probably manageable for somebody like yourself that seems to have a well nuanced ability for carpentering etc., but for the rest of us it can be cause for a minor nervous breakdown. 🙂

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I actually like cartoons myself. They are a format all their own. They are meant to be a sort of condensed distillation of reality.

    Calvin and Hobbes is my personal favorite in that category. I loved it as a kid and it's only grown on me as I have fully realized the layers of social commentary that escaped me as a child.

    My beef is more with the accelerating trend toward visuals based forms of information dissemination. Video seems to me much easier to leverage for manipulation and short circuiting the logical mind. Music and accompanying graphics can easily manipulate the emotions, making the logical arguments or data of secondary importance.

    For example, it's easy to elicit a partisan reaction on something like immigration based on the images presented. I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  233. @songbird
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Not sure Huns were PIE. Maybe.

    But it seems like they practiced some pretty weird customs. Cranial deformation (albeit was seemingly copied by some Germans). And I have heard that they also defoliated their beards by scarification from knives or burning. (though I am scratching my head over this, isn't Attila described as having a short beard?)

    Replies: @sher singh

    I just wanted to post the photo that’s now in Yeverdian’s in-law information comment.

    The cult of the Sword is ancient & illustrious.
    PIE is a meme made by Anglos & Jews at Harvard, who cares?
    Worship weapons, lift weights.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @sher singh


    Worship weapons, lift weights
     
    I see from a variety of your comments that you are a strong advocate for weight lifting. In my experience that really isn't the best way to build the functional strength that you would actually use if one were actually in pitched combat.

    I'm a fairly wiry guy, but in very good condition because I have an extremely physical profession. I can easily outwork and outperform guys that are would crush me in the gym. It doesn't seem like bulk and weight lifting performance have much to do with functional performance in the real world.

    I know you are always "showing us your sword", but what do you do with it?

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa


  234. If one only remembers one thing about George Soros please remember that Soros contributed \$21 BILLION to radical organizations with the intent to fundamentally change America and he demands results! Plus his often multi-million dollar donations to radical district attorney and attorney general races at the local and state level are in addition to the \$21 billion. These races often have no limits on candidate contributions and Soros’ funding, in these often low budget races, overwhelms them.

    This cartoon regarding George Soros has been expunged from Fox News (and probably other places too) because of the overreaching long hand of the censors at the Anti-Defamation League that thought that it was “anti-semitic”. I think that a better response to their concerns should have been made to Soros himself, requesting that he adjust his behavior and spending habits, so that he would quit giving Jews a bad name. 🙂

    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/fox-news-withdraws-antisemitic-cartoon-of-financier-george-soros-2BeSaLuTnvT2XgjbKPSkxJ

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    This cartoon regarding George Soros has been expunged from Fox News (and probably other places too) because of the overreaching long hand of the censors at the Anti-Defamation League that thought that it was “anti-semitic”.
     
    Do you mean the Anti-Semitic Defaming League [ADL] had it banned because it offended Islam?

    The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization. For example: (1)

    Frenkel had accused Israel of using white phosphorus, falsely claimed that there had been a blast at an Iranian nuclear facility, wrongly described an Israeli ban on construction materials, and concluded her coverage of the brutal murder of a Rabbi and his family in India with a quote suggesting that “the attitudes of the Chabad, which gives the sense of an elite club for Jews alone, is part of what provoked the terrorists to target them for the attack.”
    ...
    After a career of spreading disinformation against the Jewish State, Sheera Frenkel got a job covering “disinformation” for the New York Times. And she’ll be taking part in a conversation on the spread of “disinformation” at the opening session of the ADL’s Never Is Now summit.

    At the ADL virtual event longside the notorious anti-Israel bigot will be fellow New York Times activist Kara Swisher who has her own history of anti-Israel tweets including a link to a column in the paper defending BDS, Rep. Rashida Tlaib along with the rest of the antisemitic “Squad”, and arguing that it’s possible to “oppose Jewish ethno-nationalism without being a bigot”.

    This is how the ADL is promoting antisemitism while claiming to be fighting antisemitism.
     
    There is a large collection of formerly of fake Jewish organizations that exist solely to undermine Judaism. Notable examples include SPLC, B'Teslem, & J-Street.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/11/adl-convenes-summit-anti-semites-fight-anti-daniel-greenfield/

     
    https://www.jesus-our-blessed-hope.com/uploads/8/7/5/0/87500100/2-23-18-wicked-george-soros-godfather_orig.png

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  235. Here’s another good one that I came accross this week:


    Sorry Burger King. The White House is now the home of the “Whopper”! And Santa is not impressed; nor are the Progressives as Biden single handily is keeping the West Virginia coal industry alive with his “Whoppers”!

  236. @Mr. Hack
    https://cdn.creators.com/1054/316125/316125_image.jpg
    If one only remembers one thing about George Soros please remember that Soros contributed $21 BILLION to radical organizations with the intent to fundamentally change America and he demands results! Plus his often multi-million dollar donations to radical district attorney and attorney general races at the local and state level are in addition to the $21 billion. These races often have no limits on candidate contributions and Soros’ funding, in these often low budget races, overwhelms them.

    This cartoon regarding George Soros has been expunged from Fox News (and probably other places too) because of the overreaching long hand of the censors at the Anti-Defamation League that thought that it was "anti-semitic". I think that a better response to their concerns should have been made to Soros himself, requesting that he adjust his behavior and spending habits, so that he would quit giving Jews a bad name. 🙂

    https://www.thejc.com/news/world/fox-news-withdraws-antisemitic-cartoon-of-financier-george-soros-2BeSaLuTnvT2XgjbKPSkxJ

    Replies: @A123

    This cartoon regarding George Soros has been expunged from Fox News (and probably other places too) because of the overreaching long hand of the censors at the Anti-Defamation League that thought that it was “anti-semitic”.

    Do you mean the Anti-Semitic Defaming League [ADL] had it banned because it offended Islam?

    The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization. For example: (1)

    Frenkel had accused Israel of using white phosphorus, falsely claimed that there had been a blast at an Iranian nuclear facility, wrongly described an Israeli ban on construction materials, and concluded her coverage of the brutal murder of a Rabbi and his family in India with a quote suggesting that “the attitudes of the Chabad, which gives the sense of an elite club for Jews alone, is part of what provoked the terrorists to target them for the attack.”

    After a career of spreading disinformation against the Jewish State, Sheera Frenkel got a job covering “disinformation” for the New York Times. And she’ll be taking part in a conversation on the spread of “disinformation” at the opening session of the ADL’s Never Is Now summit.

    At the ADL virtual event longside the notorious anti-Israel bigot will be fellow New York Times activist Kara Swisher who has her own history of anti-Israel tweets including a link to a column in the paper defending BDS, Rep. Rashida Tlaib along with the rest of the antisemitic “Squad”, and arguing that it’s possible to “oppose Jewish ethno-nationalism without being a bigot”.

    This is how the ADL is promoting antisemitism while claiming to be fighting antisemitism.

    There is a large collection of formerly of fake Jewish organizations that exist solely to undermine Judaism. Notable examples include SPLC, B’Teslem, & J-Street.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/11/adl-convenes-summit-anti-semites-fight-anti-daniel-greenfield/

     

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    The article that I cite indicates that it was the ADL (Anti Defamation League) that is behind the "cartoon castration job". It goes on to state:


    The ADL accused fox of “casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes.”...casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes conjures up long-standing antisemitic tropes about Jewish power + contributes to the normalization of antisemitism, this needs to be removed.”

     
    Do you agree with them? If, as you state " The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization." why do you think that it's going out of its way to make hay out of this innocuous political cartoon?

    Replies: @A123

  237. No just the Russians. The Americans also want to “go east” as the Asian gas market started to dwarf the European one.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-LNG-Exports-Heading-For-An-All-Time-High.html

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Do not see all the text, but from your own link:


    Europe has become the largest buyer of US LNG last month, seeing monthly departures total 2.85 million tonnes LNG, a trend that should only fortify with TTF prices swinging above spot Asian LNG prices.
     

    Replies: @Aedib

  238. 😁 Open Thread Humor 😂

    Expand [MORE] for additional items.

    A bit less political than usual to make room for seasonal items.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

     

     

     

    [MORE]

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Coconuts
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vIXm7RMPqUk/YalZVHjsyxI/AAAAAAAA0SA/ZdJ-Lf_LvOcYr0gENewksEcA1gRDEe7wQCNcBGAsYHQ/s960/920.jpeg

    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn't get it...and then! :-)

    He'd have to be quite large to be a dog though.

    Replies: @A123

  239. @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    This cartoon regarding George Soros has been expunged from Fox News (and probably other places too) because of the overreaching long hand of the censors at the Anti-Defamation League that thought that it was “anti-semitic”.
     
    Do you mean the Anti-Semitic Defaming League [ADL] had it banned because it offended Islam?

    The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization. For example: (1)

    Frenkel had accused Israel of using white phosphorus, falsely claimed that there had been a blast at an Iranian nuclear facility, wrongly described an Israeli ban on construction materials, and concluded her coverage of the brutal murder of a Rabbi and his family in India with a quote suggesting that “the attitudes of the Chabad, which gives the sense of an elite club for Jews alone, is part of what provoked the terrorists to target them for the attack.”
    ...
    After a career of spreading disinformation against the Jewish State, Sheera Frenkel got a job covering “disinformation” for the New York Times. And she’ll be taking part in a conversation on the spread of “disinformation” at the opening session of the ADL’s Never Is Now summit.

    At the ADL virtual event longside the notorious anti-Israel bigot will be fellow New York Times activist Kara Swisher who has her own history of anti-Israel tweets including a link to a column in the paper defending BDS, Rep. Rashida Tlaib along with the rest of the antisemitic “Squad”, and arguing that it’s possible to “oppose Jewish ethno-nationalism without being a bigot”.

    This is how the ADL is promoting antisemitism while claiming to be fighting antisemitism.
     
    There is a large collection of formerly of fake Jewish organizations that exist solely to undermine Judaism. Notable examples include SPLC, B'Teslem, & J-Street.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/11/adl-convenes-summit-anti-semites-fight-anti-daniel-greenfield/

     
    https://www.jesus-our-blessed-hope.com/uploads/8/7/5/0/87500100/2-23-18-wicked-george-soros-godfather_orig.png

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The article that I cite indicates that it was the ADL (Anti Defamation League) that is behind the “cartoon castration job”. It goes on to state:

    The ADL accused fox of “casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes.”…casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes conjures up long-standing antisemitic tropes about Jewish power + contributes to the normalization of antisemitism, this needs to be removed.”

    Do you agree with them? If, as you state ” The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization.” why do you think that it’s going out of its way to make hay out of this innocuous political cartoon?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    If, as you state ” The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization.” why do you think that it’s going out of its way to make hay out of this innocuous political cartoon?
     
    The Anti-Semitic Defaming League [ADL] is defending the most powerful Muslim in the western world *George IslamoSoros*. He is an existential threat to the lives of millions of Jews in their native Palestinian lands: (1)

    Financing tied to billionaire activist George Soros is a common yet largely under-reported theme among organizations that lead or support the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign attempting to delegitimize the Jewish state.

    In January, Israel released a list of 20 BDS-supporting organizations whose members will be banned from entering Israel due to their BDS activism, prominently featuring six American groups. At least four of the six BDS-promoting U.S. groups receive funding tied to Soros. Scores of other U.S. organizations that support the BDS movement are financed by Soros.
     
    It is painfully obvious that the ADL, Ayatollah Khamenei, and The IslamoSoros are on the same side. They eagerly root for the return of the Boxcar Death System, the original BDS movement.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/01/21/target-israel-george-soros-funded-groups-leading-bds-war-on-jewish-state/

     
    https://comicallyincorrect.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/antisem-nyt-li-600.jpg

     
    https://iranpoliticsclub.net/politics/antifa-burns/images/antifa-flute-piper-george-soros-leads-antifa-socialist-democrat-media-branco-cartoon.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  240. @Aedib
    No just the Russians. The Americans also want to "go east" as the Asian gas market started to dwarf the European one.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-LNG-Exports-Heading-For-An-All-Time-High.html

    Replies: @sudden death

    Do not see all the text, but from your own link:

    Europe has become the largest buyer of US LNG last month, seeing monthly departures total 2.85 million tonnes LNG, a trend that should only fortify with TTF prices swinging above spot Asian LNG prices.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @sudden death

    You are right but


    1. Indian Oil Demand Is Firing on All Cylinders

    Brushing aside Omicron concerns, Indian downstream players have been ramping up refinery runs and are close to running at 100% (with private refiners already at full capacity).

    According to S&P Global Platts, Indian refinery runs will increase by 370,000 b/d next year to a total of 5.2 million b/d, the first time India’s annual increments will overtake that of China.

    Indian crude imports have risen to 4.31 million b/d last month, the highest they have been since March, with Middle Eastern producers accounting for roughly 75% of supplies.

    With West-to-East arbitrage improving amid a strengthening Dubai complex, Indian refiners should see an inflow of crudes coming from the Atlantic Basin in the upcoming weeks.
     
  241. @Yevardian
    @Dmitry

    That sounds awful, I noticed the same thing in Finland and the Baltics a while ago, but I simply regarded Anglo-domination as inevitable they have such a small local language market, and such brief literary histories.
    But in Spain? The source of the second most commonly spoken native tongue on the planet? I know Spain has always been quite intellectually backward compared to any other European country of comparable size and power, but wow, in Madrid? That's really quite grim.

    Although, almost all major bookstores just sell either the usual bestselling trash, alongside extremely similar sections of 'serious' books across dozens of chains. It's invariably more rewarding to go to a 2nd-hand bookstore, not to mention it's usually cheaper anyway. The owners behind the counter who pilot these commerical deathships usually have decent taste too, as opposed to chains where the manager will pride themselves as belonging to some ridiculous 'bookclub', at best..

    Replies: @Dmitry

    intellectually backward

    I’m not sure it is intellectually backward in terms of fiction, but there is definitely outsourcing.

    The largest section for untranslated fiction in the book shops, is the Latin American literature section. So the main production of the untranslated literature they buy in Spain, is from South and Central America.

    But they also read a lot of German/French/Italian literature, translated to Spanish language.

    Aside from reading Latin American literature, I think they follow mainly French fashions for literature.

    For translated fiction, promoted in book shops in Spain are writers like Joseph Roth, Irène Némirovsky, Umberto Eco. I.e. it’s the kind of fashionable translated writers for French reading public.

    For documentary literature, they are selling books translated from the anglosaxon publishing world.

    In the end I was able to buy a “History of Spain” book written by a Spanish professor. This book very idealizes Al-Andalus and the Moor’s occupation in Spain.

    Anglo-domination as inevitable they have such a small local language market, and such brief literary

    I think they have more influence from France in literature taste, while in documentary literature it’s importing products from the anglosaxon publishing world. (Which is also in Russia – importing documentary literature from anglosaxon publishing).

    Anglosaxon fictional literature taste is kind of “outlying” in strange ways.

    For example, if you look in bookshops in England, the most promoted or fashionable 20th century Russian writer is Solzhenitsyn, which young anglosaxon hipsters love. Whereas in Russia, few reads Solzhenitsyn (it’s definitely unfashionable, especially with young people).

    But in Spain, it seems like taste has been determined more by France than England – that is, writers like Joseph Roth are fashionable in France/Spain, but not in England.

    Spain is kind of receiving the Paris fashions for literature. Whereas in London they have their own world, with its very unusual tastes.

    major bookstores just sell either the usual bestselling trash, alongside extremely similar sections of ‘serious’ books across dozens of chains. It’s invariably more rewarding to go to a 2nd-hand

    Because often the best history books are not being printed. Whereas in the commercial bookshops, they only sell currently printed books.

    Perhaps surprisingly, but I think the world’s best book shops (with not currently printed books) are in the USA.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Dmitry


    I’m not sure it is intellectually backward in terms of fiction, but there is definitely outsourcing.

    The largest section for untranslated fiction in the book shops, is the Latin American literature section. So the main production of the untranslated literature they buy in Spain, is from South and Central America.
     
    Oh yeah, fiction output is the one (probably the only) area where Latin America, albeit taken as a whole, has overtaken the 'mother country' (actually, I really don't think Latinos think like this, there seems to be a very strong mutual antipathy actually). Can't say I'm a very big fan of GG Marquéz or Borges though. Borges definitely feels like he constantly puts on airs of showing how erudite or original he is, but although initially a novelty, his writing gets old fast. He kind of reminds me of Nabokov (certainly in my top 5), but without any real humour, or interest in people as real characters. Neruda is great though, no hype there.

    I think they have more influence from France in literature taste, while in documentary literature it’s importing products from the anglosaxon publishing world. (Which is also in Russia – importing documentary literature from anglosaxon publishing).
     
    You notice that in early Russian literature as well, especially in Pushkin's stories (though tbf, he had was no native, or even nearby national literary tradition to draw upon) or throughout practically all of Dostoevsky's novels... Nabokov was quite acute when he commented that despite Dostoevsky's ferocious reactionary nationalism, he really was the most foreign-influenced of all the major Russian writers ('there is something of a 2nd-hand Balzac in his rambling plots').


    Anglosaxon fictional literature taste is kind of “outlying” in strange ways.

    For example, if you look in bookshops in England, the most promoted or fashionable 20th century Russian writer is Solzhenitsyn, which young anglosaxon hipsters love. Whereas in Russia, few reads Solzhenitsyn (it’s definitely unfashionable, especially with young people).
     
    You notice the reverse phenomenon in Russia too, I noticed that quite forgotten, 'twee' or unfashionable English authors are quite popular in Russia, for example Conan Doyle, Bram Stoker, Jack London (it feels he's forgotten completely at present) or Theodore Dreiser.

    Perhaps surprisingly, but I think the world’s best book shops (with not currently printed books) are in the USA.
     
    Well, I certainly noticed they were better than here when I was there, but then again you can't really get much more provincial than Anglo Oceania. Honestly, this country might be the most 'woke' in all the Anglosphere, at least the US has a pre-industrial history to draw upon. I'd say the most bland too, but then I remember Canada exists ('a free-trade zone masquerading as a country').
  242. @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    The article that I cite indicates that it was the ADL (Anti Defamation League) that is behind the "cartoon castration job". It goes on to state:


    The ADL accused fox of “casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes.”...casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes conjures up long-standing antisemitic tropes about Jewish power + contributes to the normalization of antisemitism, this needs to be removed.”

     
    Do you agree with them? If, as you state " The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization." why do you think that it's going out of its way to make hay out of this innocuous political cartoon?

    Replies: @A123

    If, as you state ” The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization.” why do you think that it’s going out of its way to make hay out of this innocuous political cartoon?

    The Anti-Semitic Defaming League [ADL] is defending the most powerful Muslim in the western world *George IslamoSoros*. He is an existential threat to the lives of millions of Jews in their native Palestinian lands: (1)

    Financing tied to billionaire activist George Soros is a common yet largely under-reported theme among organizations that lead or support the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign attempting to delegitimize the Jewish state.

    In January, Israel released a list of 20 BDS-supporting organizations whose members will be banned from entering Israel due to their BDS activism, prominently featuring six American groups. At least four of the six BDS-promoting U.S. groups receive funding tied to Soros. Scores of other U.S. organizations that support the BDS movement are financed by Soros.

    It is painfully obvious that the ADL, Ayatollah Khamenei, and The IslamoSoros are on the same side. They eagerly root for the return of the Boxcar Death System, the original BDS movement.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/01/21/target-israel-george-soros-funded-groups-leading-bds-war-on-jewish-state/

     

     

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    Perhaps you're correct, however, I didn't see the ADL's name mentioned in the Breitbart article that you cite. For a moment, let's consider the ADL's purported stated objective in the banning of that particular cartoon, that they're trying to shield the general public from the political meme of the overly unscrupulous wealthy Jew that uses his finances to buy political power. Perhaps it's there way of distancing themselves from Soros, not protecting him?

    BTW, would you consider the Jew Ron UNZ to be the antidote to the Jew George Soros in the political realm?

    Replies: @A123

  243. @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Do not see all the text, but from your own link:


    Europe has become the largest buyer of US LNG last month, seeing monthly departures total 2.85 million tonnes LNG, a trend that should only fortify with TTF prices swinging above spot Asian LNG prices.
     

    Replies: @Aedib

    You are right but

    1. Indian Oil Demand Is Firing on All Cylinders

    Brushing aside Omicron concerns, Indian downstream players have been ramping up refinery runs and are close to running at 100% (with private refiners already at full capacity).

    According to S&P Global Platts, Indian refinery runs will increase by 370,000 b/d next year to a total of 5.2 million b/d, the first time India’s annual increments will overtake that of China.

    Indian crude imports have risen to 4.31 million b/d last month, the highest they have been since March, with Middle Eastern producers accounting for roughly 75% of supplies.

    With West-to-East arbitrage improving amid a strengthening Dubai complex, Indian refiners should see an inflow of crudes coming from the Atlantic Basin in the upcoming weeks.

  244. @Yevardian
    @Mikel

    No need for insinuation, I'm almost certain this refers to Catalonia and the Basque Country. I suppose Spanish history is somewhat unusual within Europe, in that the richest and most socially developed areas of the country have also been also been on the geographic and linguistic periphery in relation to the political centre, Castille.
    Although wasn't the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars? Granted, they had their own self-interested reasons (F-f... fourist? don't recall the name, autonomy privileges) but Carlism can hardly be described as anything but ultra-conservative, whatever a hodgepodge of ideas it was.

    Perhaps in a timeline where Franco was sufficiently stupid or vainglorious for Hitler to successfully bribe him into the war, we would have seen Spain broken up into its distinct ethnic parts.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Dmitry

    richest and most socially developed areas of the country have also been also been on the geographic and linguistic periphery

    Well in the Russian Empire in 19th century, the most socially developed nationalities were Estonians, Germans, Finns, Poles. Latvians.

    Also in the United Kingdom, if you think about Edinburgh – which is one of the main intellectual and culture center of modern European history. But Edinburgh in that time was not occupied, but part of a voluntary unified Kingdom with London.

    It’s funny to compare Edinburgh and Dublin, where Edinburgh is one of the most visually impressive cities of Europe, while Dublin you can really see in its building history, the relative poverty under occupation.

    Catalonia and the Basque

    From what I remember of the history book I read, these regions became very wealthy and developed in the late 19th century, under their powerful local bourgeoisie.

    They have been among the most economically successful parts of Spain since at least the late 19th century. But I’m not sure if this was such a divergence from a mainland Spain before the 19th century.

  245. @Barbarossa
    @Yevardian


    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it
     
    This is one of my great pet peeves. As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I'll be looking up some headline and I'll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can't be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative. Similarly, the nightly news is not informative, it is entertainment first and foremost. This seems true with any visual medium.

    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action. I mean, cripes! This IS why language was developed; as a mode of accurately conveying meaning!

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    I actually like to receive information from YouTube videos nowadays. Just play YouTube videos on your television and it’s relaxing. More amateur the videographer, the better/

    But I think the thing is to use video as the primary source, rather than secondary source.

    Obviously people speaking in YouTube videos, will be usually stupid, biased and non-informative, as listening to some amateur radio channel.

    But if you watch videos as a primary source? There is actually a somewhat direct way to learn something than reading about it, as – it might be selected by the videographer, but it’s not filtered through the writer’s biases.

    I mean nowadays you can watch Indian street culture instead of reading about it. See how unglobalized they are, etc.

    Everyone who watches such videos will emerge with a different opinion, which is a sign of more direct information. Some people will love what they see in the Indian streets, others will hate it.

    Whereas, if you read an article, there is a desire of the writer to make the reader confirm to their own opinion. The writer can select certain items, and try to make the reader conform to a particular opinion. It’s a sign of very indirect information in written text.

  246. @Thulean Friend
    If you fell for the EM hype-train you got burned, badly.

    https://twitter.com/RencapMan/status/1471429557823717381

    Most of EM just rode the China-driven commodities supercycle (2000-2013) and had precious little fundamentals to sustain them beyond that. The only developing region that I am fairly optimistic about is ASEAN, specifically countries like Vietnam. India should do okay, but not great. Rest are largely hopeless. Expect migration to pick up.

    We can see the signs all around us. Argentina, Lebanon, Venezuela now even Turkey... the list just keeps getting longer.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?

    If you look in the Vanguard Emerging Market ETF. It seems most of your money would go to China and Taiwan.
    https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/portfolio/vwo

    Due to the political level, money invested in China is a bit of a dangerous Casino and I’m not sure how the 0,3% in EU countries like Hungary will save you. But at least there is 20% in Taiwan, which seems more politically (if not geopolitically) safe.

    And then I would worry why they add your money to companies Alibaba and Tencent, which appear undervalued, but also politically vulnerable.

    I would expect emerging market investments in “serious core industries”, but instead they add much of your money for e-commerce platforms that can be politically expropriated.

    At least “Emerging Market” investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC. And TSMC would generate a lot of money for them in the last year.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    At least “Emerging Market” investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC
     
    Exactly. I still occasionally see Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.

    More to the point, the fact that Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that "EM index" than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem.


    China will reach the World Bank's high-income threshold within a few years at most. As Angus Deaton noted last year, China is no longer contributing to a decline in global inequality. It is in the above-average income bracket already. So as China becomes richer from now on, it will increase global inequality when weighted by population. How well are EM going to do without China padding their stats? I am not optimistic.


    I would expect emerging market investments in “serious core industries”
     
    There aren't many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?
     
    Think about Pakistan. A country of 220 million people and adding several millions every year. They need investments but why would anyone want to invest in a semi-bankrupt nation where foreign mangers get burned alive for blasphemy?

    Pakistan may be an extreme case, but we're seeing similar problems in countries like Egypt or Nigeria: poor and rapidly growing populations with permanent crises and little to no investment. If even Turkey goes down the drain, what hope is there for others?

    In the absence of any investment, there cannot be growth but investment cannot be forced (communism tried and failed). This is the conundrum the EM world finds itself in. The only other option for people is to move abroad if the situation domestically is hopeless. I don't blame them; I would have done the same. But it will get ugly between the haves and the haves-not, because I don't see nativism and xenophobia declining. It's even happening in places like South Africa between various African ethnicities.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

  247. @songbird
    @AP


    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State
     
    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.

    We are talking about slash and burn agriculture here, and probably without the slash, due to lack of metallurgy. Have you ever tried to cut down an oak tree with a stone axe? (I'm sure that it can't be done.)

    Better comparison of resources would not be assumed quantification of agricultural potential for Indians, but rather how many deer and moose in the woods, fish in the rivers, nuts from the trees, berries on the bushes? How many beaver pelts to be traded? And I would suppose that Quebec would clearly be the winner here.

    Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.
     
    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?

    Should I be thankful for that, as I should be thankful for Calvinists for wiping out much of a continent?
     
    i don't get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture, then I have read American Indian myths, and you can too. They were super-primitive. Frankly, a lot of their stories stink, and some of the more meritorious probably have dubious origin. The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English. They gambled over their gold artifacts and melted them down into bullion, instead of preserving them. They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone. It is said that the Inca, used to have some sort of tower, and that it was filled to the top with their dead bodies, after they made a last ditch defense.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people's hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines. There were many native rebellions against the Spanish. I don't think you have a leg to stand on historically.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn't have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.

    I condemn evil where I see it.
     
    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago, and which you have fantastically benefited from.

    True ethics is consequentialism. What good comes from denouncing them now? And trying to compare them? Clearly, they are all lumped together as "white", and it is being used as a justification to invade both America and Europe, and for many other kinds of evil.

    Replies: @AP

    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State

    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.

    Not the area of habitable land.

    Prior to European settlement (but after the plagues), in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000, depending on the source. I couldn’t find an estimate for Quebec specifically but Canada as a whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?

    Yet today there are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec and only around 30,000 in New England.

    “Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict.”

    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?

    Point taken. You are correct. I was thinking in terms of totally annihilating their enemies as the Iroquois did to the Hurons, rather than the means of this destruction.

    i don’t get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture

    It stems from a comparison of the relatively humane treatment of natives by the Catholic and Orthodox powers with their near-total destruction by the Anglo Calvinists.

    The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    But they didn’t just slaughter the natives. They brought to them the beautiful aspects of European high culture, taught them to read and write, etc.

    They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone.

    Correction: they transformed crude pyramids where people’s beating hearts had been ripped out as a sacrifice to demon-gods, into beautiful baroque cathedrals where natives sang pretty songs rather than getting eviscerated by priests wearing costumes made of human skin.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people’s hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines.

    Sure, it wasn’t perfect, there were a lot of greedy adventurous bastards involved. Though it’s not like the native peasants had it better before the Spaniards showed up – they had been slaves periodically harvested for sacrifice. Eventually they just became southern Euro-style peasants.

    Pretty soon, the natives were better off thanks to Spanish contact. You can’t say the same about the ones encountering the English.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn’t have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.

    English authorities weren’t as bad as Calvinist colonists (who themselves had a difficult relationship with the Crown). But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians. More than New England, but only half the number as in Quebec.

    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago

    What is sanctimonious about condemning something evil?

    and which you have fantastically benefited from

    I also benefited from Hitler’s invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore? Many prosperous Jews whose ancestors made it out of some small poverty-stricken Eastern European shtetl to come to America benefited from pogroms or the Holocaust that got their ancestors to leave. They shouldn’t condemn such crimes?

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils. So? The evils shouldn’t be described for what they are?

    • Replies: @utu
    @AP

    I have touched on this subject some time ago


    https://www.unz.com/freed/the-nobility-of-savages/?showcomments#comment-4380558
    How natives fared in the confrontation with Europeans depends on several factors. You can find some clues by comparing:

    Catholics vs. Russian Orthodox vs. Protestants (instructions how to deal with the natives readily available from the Old Testament)

    Spanish vs. French vs. Portugese vs. Brits vs. Russians

    Low Class Settlers (Australia) vs. Upper Class Settlers (New Zealand)

    Weak Central Authority/Free Market Land Grabbing (US) vs. Crown Central Authority (Canada, New Zealand)

    Alaska (under Russia and orthodox religion) vs. Alaska (under the US and dollar religion)

    Shortage of white women settlers (Siberia, S. America) vs. Presence of white women settlers (Anglo-Sphere)

    Native populations fared the best under Russians and Catholics. Better when there was a strong central authority. Better when the settlers/invaders were from upper crusts of society. Better when settlers/invaders did not bring women. Overall because of these factors the natives suffered the most brutal and devastating treatment in Protestant America.

    Protestantism (Judaism as well), weak central authority, low class and presence of women makes a perfect genocidal brew.

     

    Replies: @Yevardian

    , @songbird
    @AP


    in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000,... whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?
     
    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.

    Suppose we knew the numbers in 1600, would we have the godlike power to know the eddies and understand the undercurrents - the burden and flow of disease in each habitat. The dynamics involved with density and location, even in warfare. How many Indians were killed in New England by the French and their Indian allies? Easier to let God make the judgments.

    But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians.
     
    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them, or if the British had settled them first. How can we know?

    You can’t say the same about the ones encountering the English.

     

    You are just referencing population density ad nauseam. There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation. The Mi'kmaq didn't have any zoos filled with exotic animals or hundreds of miles of roads, marked with posts. Systems of runners, and of warehouses. They didn't have a capital city where they placed various ethnic groups in neighborhoods as a representative map of their empire. They had no system of records. Not even khipus.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?
     
    The Inca didn't do that. What sacrifice they did engage in, likely could have been stopped by priests and the host.

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils.
     
    Well said.

    The evils shouldn’t be described for what they are?
     
    I leave God to judge in his book, upon the souls of dead men, and think it crass for us to attempt the same based on population estimates.

    I also benefited from Hitler’s invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore?
     
    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever, and since, despite this, Hitler's name is seemingly evoked ad infinitum, by seemingly everyone, no matter how degenerate, I rather doubt the moral utility of using his name as a reference. Rather, I believe it would be more logical to suppose that it encourages evil rather than good, as the evil seem apt to invoke him more than the good.

    Replies: @AP, @Jatt Aryaa

  248. @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    If, as you state ” The ADL is now an openly anti-Jewish organization.” why do you think that it’s going out of its way to make hay out of this innocuous political cartoon?
     
    The Anti-Semitic Defaming League [ADL] is defending the most powerful Muslim in the western world *George IslamoSoros*. He is an existential threat to the lives of millions of Jews in their native Palestinian lands: (1)

    Financing tied to billionaire activist George Soros is a common yet largely under-reported theme among organizations that lead or support the anti-Semitic Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign attempting to delegitimize the Jewish state.

    In January, Israel released a list of 20 BDS-supporting organizations whose members will be banned from entering Israel due to their BDS activism, prominently featuring six American groups. At least four of the six BDS-promoting U.S. groups receive funding tied to Soros. Scores of other U.S. organizations that support the BDS movement are financed by Soros.
     
    It is painfully obvious that the ADL, Ayatollah Khamenei, and The IslamoSoros are on the same side. They eagerly root for the return of the Boxcar Death System, the original BDS movement.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/01/21/target-israel-george-soros-funded-groups-leading-bds-war-on-jewish-state/

     
    https://comicallyincorrect.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/antisem-nyt-li-600.jpg

     
    https://iranpoliticsclub.net/politics/antifa-burns/images/antifa-flute-piper-george-soros-leads-antifa-socialist-democrat-media-branco-cartoon.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Perhaps you’re correct, however, I didn’t see the ADL’s name mentioned in the Breitbart article that you cite. For a moment, let’s consider the ADL’s purported stated objective in the banning of that particular cartoon, that they’re trying to shield the general public from the political meme of the overly unscrupulous wealthy Jew that uses his finances to buy political power. Perhaps it’s there way of distancing themselves from Soros, not protecting him?

    BTW, would you consider the Jew Ron UNZ to be the antidote to the Jew George Soros in the political realm?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    Perhaps it’s there way of distancing themselves from Soros, not protecting him?
     
    The Antisemitic Defaming League of Muhammad has gone over to the Muslim side. The IslamoSoros is a Muslim. Why would they want distance? They share values, and Muhammad's ADL is in service to George IslamoSoros.

    would you consider the Jew Ron UNZ to be the antidote to the Jew George Soros in the political realm?
     
    -- Mr. Unz has left Judaism, but there is no indication he is a Muslim.
    -- The non-Jew George IslamoSoros is 100% Muslim.

    Mr. Unz is not an antidote to The IslamoSoros. However, as a someone who views MegaCorporations skeptically, Mr. Unz should be less prone to excess.

    I find Mr. Unz's trust in Manda-vaxx, BigPharma, and "Papers Please" to be surprising. I keep hoping he will start distrusting Leftoid government again. Sadly, he seems to have found a niche echoing CNN and MSNBC propaganda. "All Jabs, Are Necessary Jabs!"

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/3wee9y.jpg

  249. Interesting poll in Ukraine: would people resist a Russian invasion? Poll from December 3-11, 2021.

    http://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=ukr&cat=reports&id=1079&page=1

    The questions was: if Russia occupied your city or village, would you take action and if so what would you do?

    33% of Ukrainians would take up arms and resist violently. 22% would engage in strikes and civil disobedience. 15% percent to would flee to a safer place within Ukraine, and 10% would flee abroad.

    Importantly, 58% of men would resist Russian invaders violently, versus 13% of women.

    There were regional differences, but the regional data wasn’t broken down by sex so one has to infer how many men (which is what really counts) would violently resist.

    40% of Western Ukrainians would resist violently if the Russians occupied their city or village. So about 70% of the men there would.

    In the Center (i.e., Kiev) it was 34% total, so about 60% of the men.

    In the East, about 26% of people would violently resist the Russians, so around 40% of the men would.

    The population of Kharkiv is around 1.4 million. How many of its men would be taking up arms to try to kill Russian invaders? Around 40% of its men said they would do so. Even if it’s a lot of bluster and the real figure would be less of half of that – that would be around 100,000 armed men shooting at Russian troops through streets, out of windows, through alleys of this large city.

    Ukraine has about 400,000 reservists and 100,000s who have cycled through the military and have at least some basic military training. The Ukrainian government has announced that it will be opening the arsenals to the Ukrainian citizens if the Russians enter the country. This is what will be waiting for the Russians if their government chooses to seize Ukrainian territory.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    This information is revealing. I'm not very knowledgeable about competing military capabilities, but one thing that I'm aware of is how important the element of surprise has been in the success ratio of winning a battle or a war historically. It seems that Russia has been announcing its preparedness for war with Ukraine for upwards of 4 months now (not just as of late). I'm pretty sure that Ukraine's top military thinkers and brass have prepared many different counter attacks and scenarios for most any eventuality. I'm not sold on the idea that Russia will soon be attacking Ukraine. This isn't 2014.

  250. @A123
    😁 Open Thread Humor 😂

    Expand [MORE] for additional items.

    A bit less political than usual to make room for seasonal items.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

     
    https://i.imgur.com/DITGnvg.jpg

     
    https://i2.wp.com/thefunnyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Liberal-Hypocrisy-Race-relations-Experts-caution-use-of-looting-in-Bay-Area-smash-and-grab-Liberal-Media-Bias.jpg

     
    https://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20211210/1639157716_uq0yq8fiob.jpg



     
    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/poles.jpg

     
    https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/Screen-Shot-2021-12-08-at-6.33.27-PM.png

     
    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/263169963_4607190909364672_8794875535004812432_n.jpg

     
    https://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20211206/1638822232_nycds207if.jpg

     
    https://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20211209/1639059567_vs94r6u4qz.jpg

     
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vIXm7RMPqUk/YalZVHjsyxI/AAAAAAAA0SA/ZdJ-Lf_LvOcYr0gENewksEcA1gRDEe7wQCNcBGAsYHQ/s960/920.jpeg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack


    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn’t get it…and then! 🙂

    He’d have to be quite large to be a dog though.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn’t get it…and then! 🙂

    He’d have to be quite large to be a dog though.
     
    I suspect it is a fish-eye(?) lens very close to a good sized dog. The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The "head" is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.

    However, I am not sure.....

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

  251. @Mikel
    @Yevardian


    Although wasn’t the Basque Country the main fighting ground for the Carlist Wars?
     
    Yes. Basques in those wars were fighting both for their regional privileges and for a more traditionalist/reactionary king in Spain.

    But several things happened at the end of the 19th century that transformed the relationship of Basques with Spain forever: the defeat in the Carlists wars, the loss of the last Spanish colonies, that definitely turned Spain into a European backwater and the massive influx of poor Spanish immigrants to the Basque industrial towns, that created a big cultural shock in the autochthonous population. Francoist repression and the intensification of immigration in the post-war years only exacerbated the problem.

    The linguistic and ethnic divide had always been there but it didn't become much of a problem until the 19th century.

    Replies: @Yevardian

    Btw, are you native Euskadi-speaker? I guess you’re of that heritage, from your name at least.

    I’m curious what the linguistic situation on the ground is, whether people other than old people and peasants still speak it unselfconsciously, whether there’s any decent media produced in it, etcaetera. I was trying to search for Welsh-language stuff (in Welsh, I have a basic understanding of it) on youtube, for a rough indication of whether it has any traction with young people, but 99% of videos were just learning-progress videos, or BBC-Cymraeg clips with no comments.
    I suppose these Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also in that they’re the only parts of the Western Empire where people still speak the same languages as before the Romans.. I guess you could add Berber in Morocco too. In the East I think (other than Greek) the only surviving local tongues from antiquity are Albanian, Georgian and Armenian.

    I’m just thinking that by far the most famous writers from Wales, Ireland and Basque-Country (respectively, Rhys Davies, James Joyce and Unamuno), either weren’t raised with their parents’ native language, or had a very opinion of it.. Joyce dismissed Irish-revivalism as cringe play-acting, and Unamuno even said agglutinative languages were ‘poorly suited for expressing complex abstract ideas’.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Yevardian

    Yes, I grew up speaking both Basque and Spanish at home.

    The linguistic situation has improved a lot (if one considers Unified Basque a worthy successor of our ancient language, which I rather don't). The Spanish Basque Country is de facto semi-independent, with its own police, judiciary, health system, tax agency, education, etc. So all children, including Africans, Muslims, Chinese, etc are forced to learn Basque at school. I find this funny, when I was a child I didn't know anyone with a Spanish immigrant background (the majority of the population in my hometown) who could speak Basque.

    Basque literature is quite poor, due among other things to the diglossic and highly dialectal nature of the language, but there should be some decent audiovisual content on the internet. There's been a Basque language public TV for decades now plus many local channels. But I don't follow any nowadays.

    , @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    linguistic situation on the ground
     
    You can hear in the supermarkets (like Eroski) or train station, the announcements are in Euskera.

    In this context, it sounds at first in your ears like Spanish, because the official announcer speak this language with the same sounds or accent. But Mikel was angry with me last time I wrote something like this, so probably I should not say any more opinions from my vacation there. I was not exploring the villages.


    Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also
     
    A difference is also in Wales, they also speak English, with a very different accent from the standard English. Their accent sounds like Swedish or Norwegian people speaking English.

    Whereas in Euskadi, they speak in Spanish, in what sounds like to me the standardized accent of Spain. Or at least, the Spanish there doesn't sound different for a language learner of my level, than in the other Northern areas in Spain. Although I'm not too good to notice the accents in Spain - I can only notice the Andalusia accent is different from normal in Spain.

    Replies: @Mikel

  252. @AP
    Interesting poll in Ukraine: would people resist a Russian invasion? Poll from December 3-11, 2021.

    http://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=ukr&cat=reports&id=1079&page=1

    The questions was: if Russia occupied your city or village, would you take action and if so what would you do?

    33% of Ukrainians would take up arms and resist violently. 22% would engage in strikes and civil disobedience. 15% percent to would flee to a safer place within Ukraine, and 10% would flee abroad.

    Importantly, 58% of men would resist Russian invaders violently, versus 13% of women.

    There were regional differences, but the regional data wasn't broken down by sex so one has to infer how many men (which is what really counts) would violently resist.

    40% of Western Ukrainians would resist violently if the Russians occupied their city or village. So about 70% of the men there would.

    In the Center (i.e., Kiev) it was 34% total, so about 60% of the men.

    In the East, about 26% of people would violently resist the Russians, so around 40% of the men would.

    The population of Kharkiv is around 1.4 million. How many of its men would be taking up arms to try to kill Russian invaders? Around 40% of its men said they would do so. Even if it's a lot of bluster and the real figure would be less of half of that - that would be around 100,000 armed men shooting at Russian troops through streets, out of windows, through alleys of this large city.

    Ukraine has about 400,000 reservists and 100,000s who have cycled through the military and have at least some basic military training. The Ukrainian government has announced that it will be opening the arsenals to the Ukrainian citizens if the Russians enter the country. This is what will be waiting for the Russians if their government chooses to seize Ukrainian territory.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    This information is revealing. I’m not very knowledgeable about competing military capabilities, but one thing that I’m aware of is how important the element of surprise has been in the success ratio of winning a battle or a war historically. It seems that Russia has been announcing its preparedness for war with Ukraine for upwards of 4 months now (not just as of late). I’m pretty sure that Ukraine’s top military thinkers and brass have prepared many different counter attacks and scenarios for most any eventuality. I’m not sold on the idea that Russia will soon be attacking Ukraine. This isn’t 2014.

  253. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Agathoklis

    Recent Greek history, especially as regards the fear they have of Turkey explains this very well. Greek nationhood and freedom was a liberal cause. Lord Byron died in support of it. This creates a more widely held sympathy with Greek continuity and conservatism than somewhere like Spain, where the dominant nationalism is also, seen by the left, as an oppressor one.

    Greece is like Estonia, Israel and even Finland. Spain is more like Russia, Germany and Sweden, in this regard. Some nationalisms were historically rooted in progressive movements, other were not, or have had that sheen scratched off them by other history.

    Replies: @Agathoklis

    This is a good point. Nationalism in Greece tends to cross party lines but manifests itself in different ways. The rise of SYRIZA and certain forms of New Left shocked many old nationalist Leftists because they challenged certain ideas about Greek history, identity and acceptance of non-Greeks. Greek nationalism was originally a very liberal cause and one of the most successful patriotic leaders, Venizelos was a liberal.

  254. @AP
    @songbird


    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State

    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.
     
    Not the area of habitable land.

    Prior to European settlement (but after the plagues), in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000, depending on the source. I couldn't find an estimate for Quebec specifically but Canada as a whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?

    Yet today there are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec and only around 30,000 in New England.

    "Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict."

    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?
     
    Point taken. You are correct. I was thinking in terms of totally annihilating their enemies as the Iroquois did to the Hurons, rather than the means of this destruction.

    i don’t get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture
     
    It stems from a comparison of the relatively humane treatment of natives by the Catholic and Orthodox powers with their near-total destruction by the Anglo Calvinists.

    The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English.
     
    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    But they didn't just slaughter the natives. They brought to them the beautiful aspects of European high culture, taught them to read and write, etc.

    They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone.
     
    Correction: they transformed crude pyramids where people's beating hearts had been ripped out as a sacrifice to demon-gods, into beautiful baroque cathedrals where natives sang pretty songs rather than getting eviscerated by priests wearing costumes made of human skin.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people’s hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines.
     
    Sure, it wasn't perfect, there were a lot of greedy adventurous bastards involved. Though it's not like the native peasants had it better before the Spaniards showed up - they had been slaves periodically harvested for sacrifice. Eventually they just became southern Euro-style peasants.

    Pretty soon, the natives were better off thanks to Spanish contact. You can't say the same about the ones encountering the English.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn’t have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.
     
    English authorities weren't as bad as Calvinist colonists (who themselves had a difficult relationship with the Crown). But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians. More than New England, but only half the number as in Quebec.

    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago
     
    What is sanctimonious about condemning something evil?

    and which you have fantastically benefited from
     
    I also benefited from Hitler's invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore? Many prosperous Jews whose ancestors made it out of some small poverty-stricken Eastern European shtetl to come to America benefited from pogroms or the Holocaust that got their ancestors to leave. They shouldn't condemn such crimes?

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils. So? The evils shouldn't be described for what they are?

    Replies: @utu, @songbird

    I have touched on this subject some time ago

    https://www.unz.com/freed/the-nobility-of-savages/?showcomments#comment-4380558
    How natives fared in the confrontation with Europeans depends on several factors. You can find some clues by comparing:

    Catholics vs. Russian Orthodox vs. Protestants (instructions how to deal with the natives readily available from the Old Testament)

    Spanish vs. French vs. Portugese vs. Brits vs. Russians

    Low Class Settlers (Australia) vs. Upper Class Settlers (New Zealand)

    Weak Central Authority/Free Market Land Grabbing (US) vs. Crown Central Authority (Canada, New Zealand)

    Alaska (under Russia and orthodox religion) vs. Alaska (under the US and dollar religion)

    Shortage of white women settlers (Siberia, S. America) vs. Presence of white women settlers (Anglo-Sphere)

    Native populations fared the best under Russians and Catholics. Better when there was a strong central authority. Better when the settlers/invaders were from upper crusts of society. Better when settlers/invaders did not bring women. Overall because of these factors the natives suffered the most brutal and devastating treatment in Protestant America.

    Protestantism (Judaism as well), weak central authority, low class and presence of women makes a perfect genocidal brew.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @utu


    Low Class Settlers (Australia) vs. Upper Class Settlers (New Zealand)
     
    Even if they're relatively close geographically, both the geography and the pre-colonial native cultures are so radically different that they're scarcely at comparable as sort of real-life case study. Also, the vast majority of the British that arrived in Australia were free settlers, although the founder effect of convicts does play some part. The settlers arriving in New Zealand were not 'upper class', though they were slightly richer, I don't think many upper-class people anywhere just abandon everything they have to resettle in a wilderness on the other side of the planet.

    Although funnily enough, a large reason cited (at the time) for New Zealand being separated from Australia as a British juristiction was to the Empire had some sort of paternalistic interest in protecting the native Maori people there. New Zealand only even reached a European majority after the 1860s, whilst Australia can safely be assumed to have had one a decade or so after convicts were sent there.

    Replies: @utu

  255. @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    Perhaps you're correct, however, I didn't see the ADL's name mentioned in the Breitbart article that you cite. For a moment, let's consider the ADL's purported stated objective in the banning of that particular cartoon, that they're trying to shield the general public from the political meme of the overly unscrupulous wealthy Jew that uses his finances to buy political power. Perhaps it's there way of distancing themselves from Soros, not protecting him?

    BTW, would you consider the Jew Ron UNZ to be the antidote to the Jew George Soros in the political realm?

    Replies: @A123

    Perhaps it’s there way of distancing themselves from Soros, not protecting him?

    The Antisemitic Defaming League of Muhammad has gone over to the Muslim side. The IslamoSoros is a Muslim. Why would they want distance? They share values, and Muhammad’s ADL is in service to George IslamoSoros.

    would you consider the Jew Ron UNZ to be the antidote to the Jew George Soros in the political realm?

    — Mr. Unz has left Judaism, but there is no indication he is a Muslim.
    — The non-Jew George IslamoSoros is 100% Muslim.

    Mr. Unz is not an antidote to The IslamoSoros. However, as a someone who views MegaCorporations skeptically, Mr. Unz should be less prone to excess.

    I find Mr. Unz’s trust in Manda-vaxx, BigPharma, and “Papers Please” to be surprising. I keep hoping he will start distrusting Leftoid government again. Sadly, he seems to have found a niche echoing CNN and MSNBC propaganda. “All Jabs, Are Necessary Jabs!”

    PEACE 😇

     

  256. @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    intellectually backward
     
    I'm not sure it is intellectually backward in terms of fiction, but there is definitely outsourcing.

    The largest section for untranslated fiction in the book shops, is the Latin American literature section. So the main production of the untranslated literature they buy in Spain, is from South and Central America.

    But they also read a lot of German/French/Italian literature, translated to Spanish language.

    Aside from reading Latin American literature, I think they follow mainly French fashions for literature.

    For translated fiction, promoted in book shops in Spain are writers like Joseph Roth, Irène Némirovsky, Umberto Eco. I.e. it's the kind of fashionable translated writers for French reading public.

    For documentary literature, they are selling books translated from the anglosaxon publishing world.

    In the end I was able to buy a "History of Spain" book written by a Spanish professor. This book very idealizes Al-Andalus and the Moor's occupation in Spain.


    Anglo-domination as inevitable they have such a small local language market, and such brief literary
     
    I think they have more influence from France in literature taste, while in documentary literature it's importing products from the anglosaxon publishing world. (Which is also in Russia - importing documentary literature from anglosaxon publishing).

    Anglosaxon fictional literature taste is kind of "outlying" in strange ways.

    For example, if you look in bookshops in England, the most promoted or fashionable 20th century Russian writer is Solzhenitsyn, which young anglosaxon hipsters love. Whereas in Russia, few reads Solzhenitsyn (it's definitely unfashionable, especially with young people).

    But in Spain, it seems like taste has been determined more by France than England - that is, writers like Joseph Roth are fashionable in France/Spain, but not in England.

    Spain is kind of receiving the Paris fashions for literature. Whereas in London they have their own world, with its very unusual tastes.


    major bookstores just sell either the usual bestselling trash, alongside extremely similar sections of ‘serious’ books across dozens of chains. It’s invariably more rewarding to go to a 2nd-hand
     
    Because often the best history books are not being printed. Whereas in the commercial bookshops, they only sell currently printed books.

    Perhaps surprisingly, but I think the world's best book shops (with not currently printed books) are in the USA.

    Replies: @Yevardian

    I’m not sure it is intellectually backward in terms of fiction, but there is definitely outsourcing.

    The largest section for untranslated fiction in the book shops, is the Latin American literature section. So the main production of the untranslated literature they buy in Spain, is from South and Central America.

    Oh yeah, fiction output is the one (probably the only) area where Latin America, albeit taken as a whole, has overtaken the ‘mother country’ (actually, I really don’t think Latinos think like this, there seems to be a very strong mutual antipathy actually). Can’t say I’m a very big fan of GG Marquéz or Borges though. Borges definitely feels like he constantly puts on airs of showing how erudite or original he is, but although initially a novelty, his writing gets old fast. He kind of reminds me of Nabokov (certainly in my top 5), but without any real humour, or interest in people as real characters. Neruda is great though, no hype there.

    I think they have more influence from France in literature taste, while in documentary literature it’s importing products from the anglosaxon publishing world. (Which is also in Russia – importing documentary literature from anglosaxon publishing).

    You notice that in early Russian literature as well, especially in Pushkin’s stories (though tbf, he had was no native, or even nearby national literary tradition to draw upon) or throughout practically all of Dostoevsky’s novels… Nabokov was quite acute when he commented that despite Dostoevsky’s ferocious reactionary nationalism, he really was the most foreign-influenced of all the major Russian writers (‘there is something of a 2nd-hand Balzac in his rambling plots’).

    Anglosaxon fictional literature taste is kind of “outlying” in strange ways.

    For example, if you look in bookshops in England, the most promoted or fashionable 20th century Russian writer is Solzhenitsyn, which young anglosaxon hipsters love. Whereas in Russia, few reads Solzhenitsyn (it’s definitely unfashionable, especially with young people).

    You notice the reverse phenomenon in Russia too, I noticed that quite forgotten, ‘twee’ or unfashionable English authors are quite popular in Russia, for example Conan Doyle, Bram Stoker, Jack London (it feels he’s forgotten completely at present) or Theodore Dreiser.

    Perhaps surprisingly, but I think the world’s best book shops (with not currently printed books) are in the USA.

    Well, I certainly noticed they were better than here when I was there, but then again you can’t really get much more provincial than Anglo Oceania. Honestly, this country might be the most ‘woke’ in all the Anglosphere, at least the US has a pre-industrial history to draw upon. I’d say the most bland too, but then I remember Canada exists (‘a free-trade zone masquerading as a country’).

  257. @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vIXm7RMPqUk/YalZVHjsyxI/AAAAAAAA0SA/ZdJ-Lf_LvOcYr0gENewksEcA1gRDEe7wQCNcBGAsYHQ/s960/920.jpeg

    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn't get it...and then! :-)

    He'd have to be quite large to be a dog though.

    Replies: @A123

    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn’t get it…and then! 🙂

    He’d have to be quite large to be a dog though.

    I suspect it is a fish-eye(?) lens very close to a good sized dog. The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The “head” is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.

    However, I am not sure…..

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123

    Could it not be both? Like, Finn McCool's dog Bran?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran_and_Sce%C3%B3lang

    , @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The “head” is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.
     
    I'm not sure either, but that front limb (left to the dog, right to the man). to my eye, makes more sense as the back leg of a man, than the front leg of a dog. It's just too long to be a dog's front leg, and the foot at the bottom of a dog's right leg seems to be folded under backwards somehow?...

    I actually purchased this type of a tee-shirt online a couple of years ago. Something like it could have been used to help stage this incredibly deceptive photo:


    https://clothingmonster.com/5587-thickbox_default/funny-dog-t-shirt.jpg

    Replies: @A123

  258. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Maybe the Irish became the most friendly people, because of not having weapons, and needing to use charm skills with English
     
    Well, they did have weapons later on. But it's not a bad guess. They are verbally quite astute. However, this does not explain why other peoples that were subjected to tyranny did not develop this light heartedness and charitability (such as our own people).

    And you're making a similar point as I tried to make. It seems their openness to the world comes from the feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas). Whereas certain other Western types go about it with a kind of a self-righteous fanaticism which seems to be more about status and the desire to control others and to impose their will on others.

    Of course, having wokeness arise from the victim narrative is not all that flattering... those things should be separated.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @songbird

    Well, they did have weapons later on.

    Interestingly, some believe that the shillelagh was more or less a lineal (or shall I say collateral) descendant of one of the weapons found at the Tollense Valley Battlefield.

    According to this theory, during the Bronze Age, it was only the elite who used bronze. The peasants went to battle with staves which is indicated by the type of blows found on many skulls. And so the idea is that even though the native Irish elite were disarmed and dispossessed, Irish peasants kept their own traditional fighting techniques.

    Of course, in the High and Late Middle Ages, I am sure they used pole-axes or something, but maybe they kept staves for recreational use.

  259. @Yevardian
    @Mikel

    Btw, are you native Euskadi-speaker? I guess you're of that heritage, from your name at least.

    I'm curious what the linguistic situation on the ground is, whether people other than old people and peasants still speak it unselfconsciously, whether there's any decent media produced in it, etcaetera. I was trying to search for Welsh-language stuff (in Welsh, I have a basic understanding of it) on youtube, for a rough indication of whether it has any traction with young people, but 99% of videos were just learning-progress videos, or BBC-Cymraeg clips with no comments.
    I suppose these Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also in that they're the only parts of the Western Empire where people still speak the same languages as before the Romans.. I guess you could add Berber in Morocco too. In the East I think (other than Greek) the only surviving local tongues from antiquity are Albanian, Georgian and Armenian.

    I'm just thinking that by far the most famous writers from Wales, Ireland and Basque-Country (respectively, Rhys Davies, James Joyce and Unamuno), either weren't raised with their parents' native language, or had a very opinion of it.. Joyce dismissed Irish-revivalism as cringe play-acting, and Unamuno even said agglutinative languages were 'poorly suited for expressing complex abstract ideas'.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Dmitry

    Yes, I grew up speaking both Basque and Spanish at home.

    The linguistic situation has improved a lot (if one considers Unified Basque a worthy successor of our ancient language, which I rather don’t). The Spanish Basque Country is de facto semi-independent, with its own police, judiciary, health system, tax agency, education, etc. So all children, including Africans, Muslims, Chinese, etc are forced to learn Basque at school. I find this funny, when I was a child I didn’t know anyone with a Spanish immigrant background (the majority of the population in my hometown) who could speak Basque.

    Basque literature is quite poor, due among other things to the diglossic and highly dialectal nature of the language, but there should be some decent audiovisual content on the internet. There’s been a Basque language public TV for decades now plus many local channels. But I don’t follow any nowadays.

  260. @AP
    @songbird


    It also has river valleys accessible for farming. Quebec is right next to New England and has three times as many Indians as does New England. It also has three times as many Indians as does New York State

    Methinks you would have to add New England to New York and more to get to the area of Quebec.
     
    Not the area of habitable land.

    Prior to European settlement (but after the plagues), in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000, depending on the source. I couldn't find an estimate for Quebec specifically but Canada as a whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?

    Yet today there are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec and only around 30,000 in New England.

    "Unlike the Catholic Spaniards, the English Calvinists were every bit as savage and evil as were many of the Indian tribes with whom they came into conflict."

    Did they practice ritual torture to the death and cannibalism of their captives?
     
    Point taken. You are correct. I was thinking in terms of totally annihilating their enemies as the Iroquois did to the Hurons, rather than the means of this destruction.

    i don’t get your point here at all. If you are lamenting the loss of culture
     
    It stems from a comparison of the relatively humane treatment of natives by the Catholic and Orthodox powers with their near-total destruction by the Anglo Calvinists.

    The most interesting cultures were clearly wiped out by the Spanish, not the English.
     
    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    But they didn't just slaughter the natives. They brought to them the beautiful aspects of European high culture, taught them to read and write, etc.

    They destroyed a lot of their buildings and reused the stone.
     
    Correction: they transformed crude pyramids where people's beating hearts had been ripped out as a sacrifice to demon-gods, into beautiful baroque cathedrals where natives sang pretty songs rather than getting eviscerated by priests wearing costumes made of human skin.

    There are all sorts of hairy tales about the Spanish cutting people’s hands off, enslaving them, massacring them, and forcing them into death mines.
     
    Sure, it wasn't perfect, there were a lot of greedy adventurous bastards involved. Though it's not like the native peasants had it better before the Spaniards showed up - they had been slaves periodically harvested for sacrifice. Eventually they just became southern Euro-style peasants.

    Pretty soon, the natives were better off thanks to Spanish contact. You can't say the same about the ones encountering the English.

    Nor with the French. The English had Indian allies in the French and Indian war. Surely, they wouldn’t have teamed up with the English, if they thought them so evil? Or the English would have neatly disposed of those in Canada, when they won.
     
    English authorities weren't as bad as Calvinist colonists (who themselves had a difficult relationship with the Crown). But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians. More than New England, but only half the number as in Quebec.

    I fail to see the virtue int feeling sanctimonious about something that happened 400 years ago
     
    What is sanctimonious about condemning something evil?

    and which you have fantastically benefited from
     
    I also benefited from Hitler's invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore? Many prosperous Jews whose ancestors made it out of some small poverty-stricken Eastern European shtetl to come to America benefited from pogroms or the Holocaust that got their ancestors to leave. They shouldn't condemn such crimes?

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils. So? The evils shouldn't be described for what they are?

    Replies: @utu, @songbird

    in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000,… whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?

    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.

    [MORE]

    Suppose we knew the numbers in 1600, would we have the godlike power to know the eddies and understand the undercurrents – the burden and flow of disease in each habitat. The dynamics involved with density and location, even in warfare. How many Indians were killed in New England by the French and their Indian allies? Easier to let God make the judgments.

    But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians.

    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them, or if the British had settled them first. How can we know?

    You can’t say the same about the ones encountering the English.

    You are just referencing population density ad nauseam. There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation. The Mi’kmaq didn’t have any zoos filled with exotic animals or hundreds of miles of roads, marked with posts. Systems of runners, and of warehouses. They didn’t have a capital city where they placed various ethnic groups in neighborhoods as a representative map of their empire. They had no system of records. Not even khipus.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    The Inca didn’t do that. What sacrifice they did engage in, likely could have been stopped by priests and the host.

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils.

    Well said.

    The evils shouldn’t be described for what they are?

    I leave God to judge in his book, upon the souls of dead men, and think it crass for us to attempt the same based on population estimates.

    I also benefited from Hitler’s invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore?

    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever, and since, despite this, Hitler’s name is seemingly evoked ad infinitum, by seemingly everyone, no matter how degenerate, I rather doubt the moral utility of using his name as a reference. Rather, I believe it would be more logical to suppose that it encourages evil rather than good, as the evil seem apt to invoke him more than the good.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.
     
    Sure, it may be messy enough to make arguments involving comparable populations silly. But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    "But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians."..

    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them
     

    Well, Quebec which the French held onto has twice as many.

    The English also tried to ethnically cleanse the French from the Maritimes, deporting about 80%.


    There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation.
     
    Correct, one would not expect a large Mestizo plurality or majority in a place like New England. One would expect something like a Metis group (there is a French-speaking Metis for every tenth French person in Canada) or a Russian Creole, in addition to many more remaining Indians.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    The Inca didn’t do that.
     

    They certainly weren't as bad as the Aztecs but the civilized Indians of the Andes also sacrificed people on a large scale:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-43928277

    Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history

    ::::::::::

    Wiping out the Aztec culture was enough to redeem crimes. Aztecs were sacrificing 20,000 per year (conservative estimate) - 2 million in a 100 years. Ending that, and bringing beauty and culture to the peoples they ruled, made up for whatever bad the Spaniards did.


    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever
     
    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate. The gleeful sadism of the Chekists was far more degenerate than some trans parades or stuff like this:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-latina-makes-history-evangelical-lutheran-pastor-n1100831

    Transgender Latina makes history as Evangelical Lutheran pastor

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Jatt Aryaa
    @songbird

    Ap seems to be completely unaware that I can use his x number of deaths per year to argue against white culture entirely.

    In fact the woke already do, I just think mutts are loyal to whatever culture (master) produced them.

    Since he's an East Euro mutt he thinks the Habsburg incest pedophile empire is cool. Meanwhile, an American worships Epstein.

    Basically, what I'm trying to say is this forum is over infested with nerds.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  261. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    I certainly try to avoid video for basic facts where possible. However it is sometimes available when full transcripts are not. This has happened a few times recently with Ted Cruz and Gov. DeSantis.

    It is almost as if Fake Stream Media and major search engines are then concealing what was said.... Of course.... They would never do that.... Right?

    It is much easier for Yverdian's Lügenpresse to cover up text he does not like versus speech recognition on video. I believe the Cruz video was via Rumble to provide extra anti censorship protection.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I should hasten to add that I wasn’t necessarily seconding Yevardian’s shade towards you. It seemed rather mean spirited and unnecessary.
    The sentence just got me headed on a tangent.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks for the clarification. I did not assume your position based on the quote

    What I have learned from being here at UR is a successful code of behavior:

    -- When needled, needle back harder
    -- When insulted, insult back harder
    -- When TROLLED, troll back harder

    Emotion driven, #NeverTrump Trolls cannot face the light of TRUTH and LOGIC.

    PEACE 😇

  262. @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    I generally tend to agree with your sentiments here, but will differ in one respect, especially about a "mixed media" like political cartoons. A well written political cartoon can be more effective in making a poignant point than either a written script or a picture standing all on its own.


    The lack of written directions is started to filter into tool and equipment instructions. Instead of a couple of concisely written paragraphs to digest, now you often have to decipher some bizarre string of ambiguous pictographic representations of your tool in action.

     

    It's even more frustrating when the picture and the instructions don't exactly line-up. Either the screw depicted doesn't exist within the ones supplied, or the area that you're supposed to address also somehow looks totally different or doesn't exist. This is probably manageable for somebody like yourself that seems to have a well nuanced ability for carpentering etc., but for the rest of us it can be cause for a minor nervous breakdown. :-)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I actually like cartoons myself. They are a format all their own. They are meant to be a sort of condensed distillation of reality.

    Calvin and Hobbes is my personal favorite in that category. I loved it as a kid and it’s only grown on me as I have fully realized the layers of social commentary that escaped me as a child.

    My beef is more with the accelerating trend toward visuals based forms of information dissemination. Video seems to me much easier to leverage for manipulation and short circuiting the logical mind. Music and accompanying graphics can easily manipulate the emotions, making the logical arguments or data of secondary importance.

    For example, it’s easy to elicit a partisan reaction on something like immigration based on the images presented. I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa


    I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.
     
    I think something similar could happen when say a historian writes his narrative and fails to include certain facts and choses to emphasize others. These sorts of dichotomies of opinions and history can often be encountered here at UNZ regarding the holocaust narrative, even by our host Mr. Unz, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, the use of wacky characterizations and the logistics of ideas being ridiculed can be dramatically overemphasized within an effective political cartoon. Could you include an example or two of some of your favorite cartoons by Calvin and Hobbes?

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Barbarossa

  263. @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn’t get it…and then! 🙂

    He’d have to be quite large to be a dog though.
     
    I suspect it is a fish-eye(?) lens very close to a good sized dog. The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The "head" is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.

    However, I am not sure.....

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    Could it not be both? Like, Finn McCool’s dog Bran?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran_and_Sce%C3%B3lang

    • LOL: A123
  264. @Yevardian
    @Mikel

    Btw, are you native Euskadi-speaker? I guess you're of that heritage, from your name at least.

    I'm curious what the linguistic situation on the ground is, whether people other than old people and peasants still speak it unselfconsciously, whether there's any decent media produced in it, etcaetera. I was trying to search for Welsh-language stuff (in Welsh, I have a basic understanding of it) on youtube, for a rough indication of whether it has any traction with young people, but 99% of videos were just learning-progress videos, or BBC-Cymraeg clips with no comments.
    I suppose these Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also in that they're the only parts of the Western Empire where people still speak the same languages as before the Romans.. I guess you could add Berber in Morocco too. In the East I think (other than Greek) the only surviving local tongues from antiquity are Albanian, Georgian and Armenian.

    I'm just thinking that by far the most famous writers from Wales, Ireland and Basque-Country (respectively, Rhys Davies, James Joyce and Unamuno), either weren't raised with their parents' native language, or had a very opinion of it.. Joyce dismissed Irish-revivalism as cringe play-acting, and Unamuno even said agglutinative languages were 'poorly suited for expressing complex abstract ideas'.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Dmitry

    linguistic situation on the ground

    You can hear in the supermarkets (like Eroski) or train station, the announcements are in Euskera.

    In this context, it sounds at first in your ears like Spanish, because the official announcer speak this language with the same sounds or accent. But Mikel was angry with me last time I wrote something like this, so probably I should not say any more opinions from my vacation there. I was not exploring the villages.

    Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also

    A difference is also in Wales, they also speak English, with a very different accent from the standard English. Their accent sounds like Swedish or Norwegian people speaking English.

    Whereas in Euskadi, they speak in Spanish, in what sounds like to me the standardized accent of Spain. Or at least, the Spanish there doesn’t sound different for a language learner of my level, than in the other Northern areas in Spain. Although I’m not too good to notice the accents in Spain – I can only notice the Andalusia accent is different from normal in Spain.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    Mikel was angry with me last time I wrote something like this, so probably I should not say any more opinions from my vacation there
     
    Not at all. Feel free to criticize Spain and praise the Basques as much as you want. Although ancestry.com estimates that I am 15% Spanish so just don't overdo it.

    Anyway, I am much more interested in what happens in the US than over there. It's much more interesting and less repetitive.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  265. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I should hasten to add that I wasn't necessarily seconding Yevardian's shade towards you. It seemed rather mean spirited and unnecessary.
    The sentence just got me headed on a tangent.

    Replies: @A123

    Thanks for the clarification. I did not assume your position based on the quote

    What I have learned from being here at UR is a successful code of behavior:

    — When needled, needle back harder
    — When insulted, insult back harder
    — When TROLLED, troll back harder

    Emotion driven, #NeverTrump Trolls cannot face the light of TRUTH and LOGIC.

    PEACE 😇

  266. @sher singh
    @songbird

    I just wanted to post the photo that's now in Yeverdian's in-law information comment.

    The cult of the Sword is ancient & illustrious.
    PIE is a meme made by Anglos & Jews at Harvard, who cares?
    Worship weapons, lift weights.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/640459736919048202/921496688143786004/unknown.png

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Worship weapons, lift weights

    I see from a variety of your comments that you are a strong advocate for weight lifting. In my experience that really isn’t the best way to build the functional strength that you would actually use if one were actually in pitched combat.

    I’m a fairly wiry guy, but in very good condition because I have an extremely physical profession. I can easily outwork and outperform guys that are would crush me in the gym. It doesn’t seem like bulk and weight lifting performance have much to do with functional performance in the real world.

    I know you are always “showing us your sword”, but what do you do with it?

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @Barbarossa

    Cope.

    You should obviously do a variety or balance of things.

    However, strength takes years to build while cardio mere weeks.

    If it doesn't resonate with you, that's fine you're gay and we're not really looking for that type. ;)

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  267. Ben Aris has a great write-up on the current Russian-Ukrainian crisis. He makes a powerful case that this is in fact unfinished business from the mid-2000s and that Russian-US relations are at the core of it.

    He dismisses any invasion as an unserious proposition out of hand (I would agree), and argues that Putin has given up on any partnership with the West and now wants to revert to various Cold War mechanisms that would paradoxically increase the chance for peace.

    Despite militaristic noises from the WH, Biden has agreed on opening talks to several of Putin’s demands. These noises serve as a distraction, not least to the inflamed domestic opinion against Russia (particularly among Biden’s own progressive middle-class base). In essence, these statements act as a shield.

    One can only hope that cooler heads will prevail, but I fundamentally agree that any serious chance of an invasion is off the table.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Thulean Friend

    Mercouris have similar opinion. According to his opinion, while Russia can easily smash the Ukraine army; the 100K troops are not enough for an offensive/occupation operation. They are here deterring the Kiev regime to attack the Donbass republics. He also states that, while the Ukrainian army has improved from 2014, the Donbass force has evolved and has improved much further and, although smaller, can inflict very heavy losses to the Ukrainian attacking side. The key here is that some Ukrainian puppets wanting to please their Atlanticist masters may order an attack expecting a Russian counterattack. But, according him, the Donbas army (now is an organized army) plus some Russian “volunteers” would bleed and neutralize the offensive in the current reality of trench warfare.

    Replies: @A123

  268. @songbird
    @AP


    in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000,... whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?
     
    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.

    Suppose we knew the numbers in 1600, would we have the godlike power to know the eddies and understand the undercurrents - the burden and flow of disease in each habitat. The dynamics involved with density and location, even in warfare. How many Indians were killed in New England by the French and their Indian allies? Easier to let God make the judgments.

    But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians.
     
    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them, or if the British had settled them first. How can we know?

    You can’t say the same about the ones encountering the English.

     

    You are just referencing population density ad nauseam. There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation. The Mi'kmaq didn't have any zoos filled with exotic animals or hundreds of miles of roads, marked with posts. Systems of runners, and of warehouses. They didn't have a capital city where they placed various ethnic groups in neighborhoods as a representative map of their empire. They had no system of records. Not even khipus.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?
     
    The Inca didn't do that. What sacrifice they did engage in, likely could have been stopped by priests and the host.

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils.
     
    Well said.

    The evils shouldn’t be described for what they are?
     
    I leave God to judge in his book, upon the souls of dead men, and think it crass for us to attempt the same based on population estimates.

    I also benefited from Hitler’s invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore?
     
    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever, and since, despite this, Hitler's name is seemingly evoked ad infinitum, by seemingly everyone, no matter how degenerate, I rather doubt the moral utility of using his name as a reference. Rather, I believe it would be more logical to suppose that it encourages evil rather than good, as the evil seem apt to invoke him more than the good.

    Replies: @AP, @Jatt Aryaa

    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.

    Sure, it may be messy enough to make arguments involving comparable populations silly. But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    “But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians.”..

    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them

    Well, Quebec which the French held onto has twice as many.

    The English also tried to ethnically cleanse the French from the Maritimes, deporting about 80%.

    There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation.

    Correct, one would not expect a large Mestizo plurality or majority in a place like New England. One would expect something like a Metis group (there is a French-speaking Metis for every tenth French person in Canada) or a Russian Creole, in addition to many more remaining Indians.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    The Inca didn’t do that.

    They certainly weren’t as bad as the Aztecs but the civilized Indians of the Andes also sacrificed people on a large scale:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-43928277

    Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history

    ::::::::::

    Wiping out the Aztec culture was enough to redeem crimes. Aztecs were sacrificing 20,000 per year (conservative estimate) – 2 million in a 100 years. Ending that, and bringing beauty and culture to the peoples they ruled, made up for whatever bad the Spaniards did.

    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate. The gleeful sadism of the Chekists was far more degenerate than some trans parades or stuff like this:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-latina-makes-history-evangelical-lutheran-pastor-n1100831

    Transgender Latina makes history as Evangelical Lutheran pastor

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.
     
    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges, and ingress to outsiders, I might agree with you, but they don't.

    The English also tried to ethnically cleanse the French from the Maritimes, deporting about 80%.
     
    Brutal, but sound strategic sense, for the victor. The French lost, or they may have done the same to parts of the Thirteen Colonies.

    They certainly weren’t as bad as the Aztecs but the civilized Indians of the Andes also sacrificed people on a large scale:
     
    There are a lot of complicating factors here. They were probably trying to maximize moral outcomes (such as survivability in famine), with improper science.

    Thais practiced human sacrifice into the 1870s. They stopped by being exposed to the ideas of outsiders and wanting to emulate them, rather than having their culture destroyed.

    Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history
     
    The Tophet at Carthage had 20,000 urns filled with the bones of children and animals. Some lack of clarity there, but I suspect it was larger.

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.
     
    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.

    At its core, real degeneracy is about the decline in virtue that average men and women and children have. It is somewhat separate from the power dynamic scenario or from warfare.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.

    Replies: @AP

  269. @Barbarossa
    @sher singh


    Worship weapons, lift weights
     
    I see from a variety of your comments that you are a strong advocate for weight lifting. In my experience that really isn't the best way to build the functional strength that you would actually use if one were actually in pitched combat.

    I'm a fairly wiry guy, but in very good condition because I have an extremely physical profession. I can easily outwork and outperform guys that are would crush me in the gym. It doesn't seem like bulk and weight lifting performance have much to do with functional performance in the real world.

    I know you are always "showing us your sword", but what do you do with it?

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    Cope.

    You should obviously do a variety or balance of things.

    However, strength takes years to build while cardio mere weeks.

    If it doesn’t resonate with you, that’s fine you’re gay and we’re not really looking for that type. 😉

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Troll: Mr. Hack
  270. @songbird
    @AP


    in around 1600, the Native population in New England was estimated at around 60,000-100,000,... whole was at around 200,000. So perhaps Quebec had 40,000?
     
    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.

    Suppose we knew the numbers in 1600, would we have the godlike power to know the eddies and understand the undercurrents - the burden and flow of disease in each habitat. The dynamics involved with density and location, even in warfare. How many Indians were killed in New England by the French and their Indian allies? Easier to let God make the judgments.

    But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians.
     
    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them, or if the British had settled them first. How can we know?

    You can’t say the same about the ones encountering the English.

     

    You are just referencing population density ad nauseam. There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation. The Mi'kmaq didn't have any zoos filled with exotic animals or hundreds of miles of roads, marked with posts. Systems of runners, and of warehouses. They didn't have a capital city where they placed various ethnic groups in neighborhoods as a representative map of their empire. They had no system of records. Not even khipus.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?
     
    The Inca didn't do that. What sacrifice they did engage in, likely could have been stopped by priests and the host.

    To be a person alive in this world is to have benefited from past evils.
     
    Well said.

    The evils shouldn’t be described for what they are?
     
    I leave God to judge in his book, upon the souls of dead men, and think it crass for us to attempt the same based on population estimates.

    I also benefited from Hitler’s invasion and occupation of the USSR. Should I not condemn it as an evil thing to do, therefore?
     
    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever, and since, despite this, Hitler's name is seemingly evoked ad infinitum, by seemingly everyone, no matter how degenerate, I rather doubt the moral utility of using his name as a reference. Rather, I believe it would be more logical to suppose that it encourages evil rather than good, as the evil seem apt to invoke him more than the good.

    Replies: @AP, @Jatt Aryaa

    Ap seems to be completely unaware that I can use his x number of deaths per year to argue against white culture entirely.

    In fact the woke already do, I just think mutts are loyal to whatever culture (master) produced them.

    Since he’s an East Euro mutt he thinks the Habsburg incest pedophile empire is cool. Meanwhile, an American worships Epstein.

    Basically, what I’m trying to say is this forum is over infested with nerds.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • LOL: songbird
  271. @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?

    If you look in the Vanguard Emerging Market ETF. It seems most of your money would go to China and Taiwan.
    https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/portfolio/vwo

    Due to the political level, money invested in China is a bit of a dangerous Casino and I'm not sure how the 0,3% in EU countries like Hungary will save you. But at least there is 20% in Taiwan, which seems more politically (if not geopolitically) safe.

    https://i.imgur.com/bHtweLf.jpg

    And then I would worry why they add your money to companies Alibaba and Tencent, which appear undervalued, but also politically vulnerable.

    I would expect emerging market investments in "serious core industries", but instead they add much of your money for e-commerce platforms that can be politically expropriated.

    At least "Emerging Market" investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC. And TSMC would generate a lot of money for them in the last year.


    https://i.imgur.com/aPyWaeO.jpg

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    At least “Emerging Market” investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC

    Exactly. I still occasionally see Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.

    More to the point, the fact that Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that “EM index” than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem.

    China will reach the World Bank’s high-income threshold within a few years at most. As Angus Deaton noted last year, China is no longer contributing to a decline in global inequality. It is in the above-average income bracket already. So as China becomes richer from now on, it will increase global inequality when weighted by population. How well are EM going to do without China padding their stats? I am not optimistic.

    I would expect emerging market investments in “serious core industries”

    There aren’t many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?

    Think about Pakistan. A country of 220 million people and adding several millions every year. They need investments but why would anyone want to invest in a semi-bankrupt nation where foreign mangers get burned alive for blasphemy?

    Pakistan may be an extreme case, but we’re seeing similar problems in countries like Egypt or Nigeria: poor and rapidly growing populations with permanent crises and little to no investment. If even Turkey goes down the drain, what hope is there for others?

    In the absence of any investment, there cannot be growth but investment cannot be forced (communism tried and failed). This is the conundrum the EM world finds itself in. The only other option for people is to move abroad if the situation domestically is hopeless. I don’t blame them; I would have done the same. But it will get ugly between the haves and the haves-not, because I don’t see nativism and xenophobia declining. It’s even happening in places like South Africa between various African ethnicities.

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @Thulean Friend

    How do you foresee the political fallout of taking back farm laws impacting Em?

    Moreover, is the butt hurt this creates in champagne socialists like yourself a harness able energy source?

    If I ran you over with an electric tractor would that be more acceptable than diesel?

    Finally, how is the campaign to stop deportation proceedings against the Somali guy who raped you going?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    , @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that “EM index” than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem
     
    Doesn't it show a problem in the concept "emerging market fund", when the fund managers choose to invest so much in Taiwan?

    Because a developed, democratic, modern country (Taiwan) is classified as an emerging market, so the fund managers invest the money there.

    It implies, that even emerging market fund managers believe that it is better to invest in more developed countries. So then why should you invest in an emerging market fund, instead of invest in developed countries ourselves? It seems like the emerging market fund managers don't really believe in emerging markets.

    Although to be honest, I only looked at the Vanguard ETF. I'm looking at the BlackRock one now, and it's similar as the Vanguard.

    One of the differences of BlackRock compared to Vanguard, seems that they include Samsung - so BlackRock still include Korea for the emerging market fund.

    https://i.imgur.com/lIKMg00.jpg

    I guess if we had to invest in one of them, then BlackRock would be slightly more attractive. Because of the Korean investments gives them additional options of investments in a lower risk environment.


    Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.
     
    Well it looks like Korea is still in EM category for BlackRock's practical decisions?

    And Israel had benefited from it, like Taiwan. After the 2010 upgrade from emerging market, Israel has received less investment.

    The story about Israel this week, is they are hoping to be re-classified from the Middle East to Europe, as they are currently the only non-emerging market in the Middle East. (Kuwait and UAE are still classified emerging markets).

    You can see the article in Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/msci-considers-new-region-israeli-index-with-potential-windfall-2021-12-16/

    "Israel lost large emerging market passive investments with its upgrade to a developed one more than a decade ago, when it went from more than 3% in the emerging market index to less than 0.5% of the developed one, and daily trade volumes in Tel Aviv have still not fully recovered."

    -

    I noticed BlackRock has an Israel ETF. It was mainly flat for a decade. In the last year, it was suddenly very successful. And still much of the companies which BlackRock's Israel ETF invests, are listed in NASDAQ rather than the local market.
    https://i.imgur.com/vdqWviO.jpg


    There aren’t many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

     

    It's funny they invest much of the money to Chinese e-commerce platforms like Alibaba and Tencent.

    For my imagination of an emerging market fund, I was naively guessing more things like investments in companies like Mittal steel, Gazprom, Petrobras?

    Replies: @Dmitry

  272. What do people think about this YouTube report about Seventh Day Adventists?

    They have a life expectancy more like Japanese than Americans. The reason is proposed in the report, because of their lack of tobacco and alcohol, and Mediterranean style diet.

    A family from this religion invented Kellogg’s cereals.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Probably some good advice. The deemphasis of eating meat products by the Adventists is quite the contrary of what our once active participant here Thorfinnsson had strongly advocated. He thought that meat would provide him with many of the nutrients derived often from plant like foods. The clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries where people lived extremely long lives. Most of the people there do include chicken, eggs, milk and cheese into their diets. A friend of mine whose father lived the last 10 - 15 years in Costa Rica lived to be 106. He would enjoy an occasional glass of wine and a cigar, but most importantly had a strong adherence to Orthodoxy (he was of Greek in origin).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

  273. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    At least “Emerging Market” investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC
     
    Exactly. I still occasionally see Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.

    More to the point, the fact that Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that "EM index" than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem.


    China will reach the World Bank's high-income threshold within a few years at most. As Angus Deaton noted last year, China is no longer contributing to a decline in global inequality. It is in the above-average income bracket already. So as China becomes richer from now on, it will increase global inequality when weighted by population. How well are EM going to do without China padding their stats? I am not optimistic.


    I would expect emerging market investments in “serious core industries”
     
    There aren't many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?
     
    Think about Pakistan. A country of 220 million people and adding several millions every year. They need investments but why would anyone want to invest in a semi-bankrupt nation where foreign mangers get burned alive for blasphemy?

    Pakistan may be an extreme case, but we're seeing similar problems in countries like Egypt or Nigeria: poor and rapidly growing populations with permanent crises and little to no investment. If even Turkey goes down the drain, what hope is there for others?

    In the absence of any investment, there cannot be growth but investment cannot be forced (communism tried and failed). This is the conundrum the EM world finds itself in. The only other option for people is to move abroad if the situation domestically is hopeless. I don't blame them; I would have done the same. But it will get ugly between the haves and the haves-not, because I don't see nativism and xenophobia declining. It's even happening in places like South Africa between various African ethnicities.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

    How do you foresee the political fallout of taking back farm laws impacting Em?

    Moreover, is the butt hurt this creates in champagne socialists like yourself a harness able energy source?

    If I ran you over with an electric tractor would that be more acceptable than diesel?

    Finally, how is the campaign to stop deportation proceedings against the Somali guy who raped you going?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  274. @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I actually like cartoons myself. They are a format all their own. They are meant to be a sort of condensed distillation of reality.

    Calvin and Hobbes is my personal favorite in that category. I loved it as a kid and it's only grown on me as I have fully realized the layers of social commentary that escaped me as a child.

    My beef is more with the accelerating trend toward visuals based forms of information dissemination. Video seems to me much easier to leverage for manipulation and short circuiting the logical mind. Music and accompanying graphics can easily manipulate the emotions, making the logical arguments or data of secondary importance.

    For example, it's easy to elicit a partisan reaction on something like immigration based on the images presented. I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.

    I think something similar could happen when say a historian writes his narrative and fails to include certain facts and choses to emphasize others. These sorts of dichotomies of opinions and history can often be encountered here at UNZ regarding the holocaust narrative, even by our host Mr. Unz, if I’m not mistaken. Of course, the use of wacky characterizations and the logistics of ideas being ridiculed can be dramatically overemphasized within an effective political cartoon. Could you include an example or two of some of your favorite cartoons by Calvin and Hobbes?

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I'd gladly share some Calvin and Hobbes. Never heard of it then?

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wookmark.com%2F78312_e4afb11018ab012f2fc600163e41dd5b-width900.jpg&f=1&nofb=1



    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.17thshard.com%2Fforum%2Fapplications%2Fcore%2Finterface%2Fimageproxy%2Fimageproxy.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fthumbor%2FMNlcHx7tqLfE1nPlt23esQUqJWE%3D%2F0x0%3A3500x2487%2F1200x0%2Ffilters%3Afocal(0x0%3A3500x2487)%3Ano_upscale()%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fuploads%2Fchorus_asset%2Ffile%2F19964110%2Fcalvin_hobbes_gravity_grabbing_plane_comic_strip.jpg%26key%3D1e83b52b08a49ac19825cc70bdff4a2dff648205616f5b9784b05ab3791cb16f&f=1&nofb=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QZtNmECRM2k%2FTjXLZbKoI7I%2FAAAAAAAAASk%2FLEvWsXULgwE%2Fs1600%2FClipboard01.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wallpaperflare.com%2Fstatic%2F803%2F876%2F925%2Fcalvin-and-hobbes-comics-simple-background-calvin-wallpaper.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    , @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I'd gladly share some Calvin and Hobbes. Never heard of it?

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QZtNmECRM2k%2FTjXLZbKoI7I%2FAAAAAAAAASk%2FLEvWsXULgwE%2Fs1600%2FClipboard01.jpg&f=1&nofb=1



    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.VMjjLiicCHOwJK_abhNRqQHaEo%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3R-iarggtPmJLM5wI8eY1AHaFQ%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

  275. @Dmitry
    What do people think about this YouTube report about Seventh Day Adventists?

    They have a life expectancy more like Japanese than Americans. The reason is proposed in the report, because of their lack of tobacco and alcohol, and Mediterranean style diet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc12MMSJGPM

    A family from this religion invented Kellogg's cereals.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Probably some good advice. The deemphasis of eating meat products by the Adventists is quite the contrary of what our once active participant here Thorfinnsson had strongly advocated. He thought that meat would provide him with many of the nutrients derived often from plant like foods. The clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries where people lived extremely long lives. Most of the people there do include chicken, eggs, milk and cheese into their diets. A friend of mine whose father lived the last 10 – 15 years in Costa Rica lived to be 106. He would enjoy an occasional glass of wine and a cigar, but most importantly had a strong adherence to Orthodoxy (he was of Greek in origin).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    https://youtu.be/CzNVa4I7CbY

    , @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes I've been watching some documentaries about this topic as well. A general pattern of the regions with unusually high life expectancy, seems to include a diet which is involving natural foods, without much meat per day.

    So, traditional diets in Okinawa or Sardinia, are based in mainly eating vegetables, intact grains, beans. Basically, eating like traditional peasants.

    In these regions, old people are also active, sometimes still farming for their food. Unfortunately, among the younger generation, the traditional diet is being displaced in Okinawa, with a strong influence of American fast food.

    With a Russian historical diet, traditional old things like kasha, shchi, borscht, okroshka, etc, are probably very healthy. But the more 20th century processed products, likely will not be healthy.


    clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries

     

    In the national level, the life expectancy in Costa Rica is higher than the USA.

    However, those clips are focusing on specific regions within the country.

    Okinawa has a higher life expectancy than Japan (which already has a very high life expectancy). But it might be difficult to control the variables, as Okinawa also has a different climate than mainland Japan.

    https://i.imgur.com/k5GYQ5p.jpg
    I feel there is something politically "easy" in emphasis of diet for public health, as it will allow the authorities to blame individuals' choices. When in many example the cause of falling life expectancy is the pollution caused by industry and transport, low investment in healthcare and a poor management of disease epidemics.

    Life expectancy in Russia since 2020/2021/2022 will be below Bangladesh again, not because of e.g. individuals choosing to eat processed meat, but mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic from the government level. However the more politically easy will be to talk about diet and individual choices.

    Life expectancy is flat in the USA, perhaps partly because of the inequality in the healthcare access, not only the diet choices of the public. But, it is politically more acceptable to talk about the poor diet choices of the individual in America.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  276. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    At least “Emerging Market” investors are using a liberal concept of emerging markets, to allow them to include Taiwan industries like TSMC
     
    Exactly. I still occasionally see Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.

    More to the point, the fact that Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that "EM index" than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem.


    China will reach the World Bank's high-income threshold within a few years at most. As Angus Deaton noted last year, China is no longer contributing to a decline in global inequality. It is in the above-average income bracket already. So as China becomes richer from now on, it will increase global inequality when weighted by population. How well are EM going to do without China padding their stats? I am not optimistic.


    I would expect emerging market investments in “serious core industries”
     
    There aren't many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

    Do mainstream emerging market funds, invest ever much money to Argentina, Lebanon, etc?
     
    Think about Pakistan. A country of 220 million people and adding several millions every year. They need investments but why would anyone want to invest in a semi-bankrupt nation where foreign mangers get burned alive for blasphemy?

    Pakistan may be an extreme case, but we're seeing similar problems in countries like Egypt or Nigeria: poor and rapidly growing populations with permanent crises and little to no investment. If even Turkey goes down the drain, what hope is there for others?

    In the absence of any investment, there cannot be growth but investment cannot be forced (communism tried and failed). This is the conundrum the EM world finds itself in. The only other option for people is to move abroad if the situation domestically is hopeless. I don't blame them; I would have done the same. But it will get ugly between the haves and the haves-not, because I don't see nativism and xenophobia declining. It's even happening in places like South Africa between various African ethnicities.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

    Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that “EM index” than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem

    Doesn’t it show a problem in the concept “emerging market fund”, when the fund managers choose to invest so much in Taiwan?

    Because a developed, democratic, modern country (Taiwan) is classified as an emerging market, so the fund managers invest the money there.

    It implies, that even emerging market fund managers believe that it is better to invest in more developed countries. So then why should you invest in an emerging market fund, instead of invest in developed countries ourselves? It seems like the emerging market fund managers don’t really believe in emerging markets.

    Although to be honest, I only looked at the Vanguard ETF. I’m looking at the BlackRock one now, and it’s similar as the Vanguard.

    One of the differences of BlackRock compared to Vanguard, seems that they include Samsung – so BlackRock still include Korea for the emerging market fund.

    I guess if we had to invest in one of them, then BlackRock would be slightly more attractive. Because of the Korean investments gives them additional options of investments in a lower risk environment.

    Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.

    Well it looks like Korea is still in EM category for BlackRock’s practical decisions?

    And Israel had benefited from it, like Taiwan. After the 2010 upgrade from emerging market, Israel has received less investment.

    The story about Israel this week, is they are hoping to be re-classified from the Middle East to Europe, as they are currently the only non-emerging market in the Middle East. (Kuwait and UAE are still classified emerging markets).

    You can see the article in Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/msci-considers-new-region-israeli-index-with-potential-windfall-2021-12-16/

    “Israel lost large emerging market passive investments with its upgrade to a developed one more than a decade ago, when it went from more than 3% in the emerging market index to less than 0.5% of the developed one, and daily trade volumes in Tel Aviv have still not fully recovered.”

    I noticed BlackRock has an Israel ETF. It was mainly flat for a decade. In the last year, it was suddenly very successful. And still much of the companies which BlackRock’s Israel ETF invests, are listed in NASDAQ rather than the local market.

    There aren’t many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

    It’s funny they invest much of the money to Chinese e-commerce platforms like Alibaba and Tencent.

    For my imagination of an emerging market fund, I was naively guessing more things like investments in companies like Mittal steel, Gazprom, Petrobras?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    BlackRock compared to Vanguard, seems that they include Samsung – so BlackRock still include Korea for the emerging market fund.
     
    I found the reason is because BlackRock uses the MSCI emerging market classification. South Korea is still included as an emerging market by MSCI.

    However Vanguard is using the FTSE emerging market index, which does not include South Korea anymore.

    These funds are actively managed and decided to weigh most of their investments to China and Taiwan in the last years.


    It’s funny they invest much of the money to Chinese e-commerce platforms like Alibaba and Tencent.

    For my imagination of an emerging market fund, I was naively guessing more things like investments in companies like Mittal steel, Gazprom, Petrobras?
     

    I also found the answer for this, is because the fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.

    So as a result, they actively manage the funds, and add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.

    "“In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF (VWO) and the iShares MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (EEM).

    “What we’ve done is create really the tip of the spear not just of growth in emerging markets, but in the entire world,” Carter said of EMQQ.

    The ETF is 66% weighted toward internet services stocks, 8% department stores, 6% software and 4% real estate services. It is also 64% Hong Kong and Chinese stocks, with Alibaba, Tencent, Pinduoduo and Meituan making up the top 29% of the portfolio." https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/broad-emerging-market-indexes-are-broken-etf-manager-says.html

    -

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.

    The article says about another emerging market fund that invests in countries with more "freedom and liberty".

    "Another way to look at the emerging markets trade is through the lens of freedom and liberty, at least according to Perth Tolle, founder of Life + Liberty Indexes."

    "Her firm runs the index behind the Alpha Architect Freedom 100 Emerging Market ETF (FRDM), which weighs its holdings based on civil, political and economic freedom metrics."

    "Its top holdings are Taiwan Semiconductor, Samsung Electronics and Bank of Central Asia. With no allocation to China, its top weightings by country are Taiwan at 20%, Chile at 17%, South Korea also at 17% and Poland at 16%."

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

  277. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Probably some good advice. The deemphasis of eating meat products by the Adventists is quite the contrary of what our once active participant here Thorfinnsson had strongly advocated. He thought that meat would provide him with many of the nutrients derived often from plant like foods. The clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries where people lived extremely long lives. Most of the people there do include chicken, eggs, milk and cheese into their diets. A friend of mine whose father lived the last 10 - 15 years in Costa Rica lived to be 106. He would enjoy an occasional glass of wine and a cigar, but most importantly had a strong adherence to Orthodoxy (he was of Greek in origin).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

  278. At least one example where the claim of a Deep State within the US government appears to be a more supportable belief than Russian Intel’s supposed activity towards the US, as has been claimed by the likes of Evelyn Farkas. Apparently, no FBI knocks on the door for them.

    https://original.antiwar.com/Michael_Averko/2021/12/17/ongoing-smear-campaign-against-the-strategic-culture-foundation/

  279. I suspect the exact reason why there are a lot of first-person shooter gamers in contact with more toxic online cultures is the lack of actual military drilling from a young age, out of an aversion of massively expanding the reserves or deploying child soldiers, both of them against domestic security sensibilities.

    Likewise with real-time strategy games, we could have enroll those gamers into military academies instead. Is this part of the reason China is clamping down on online gaming?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    One form of gaming where extremely harsh screentime restriction laws (on the level of what China allows for underage gamers) is justified, is VR games and by extension metaverse applications. This is to prevent the obviously awful outcome of the Matrix. I'll give it 1 hour per weekend day and 0.5 hour per weekday, and ban any and all applications of the metaverse to work. Anything else that can work with VR, has to be seen thru a screen.

    Replies: @songbird, @German_reader

  280. @utu
    @AP

    I have touched on this subject some time ago


    https://www.unz.com/freed/the-nobility-of-savages/?showcomments#comment-4380558
    How natives fared in the confrontation with Europeans depends on several factors. You can find some clues by comparing:

    Catholics vs. Russian Orthodox vs. Protestants (instructions how to deal with the natives readily available from the Old Testament)

    Spanish vs. French vs. Portugese vs. Brits vs. Russians

    Low Class Settlers (Australia) vs. Upper Class Settlers (New Zealand)

    Weak Central Authority/Free Market Land Grabbing (US) vs. Crown Central Authority (Canada, New Zealand)

    Alaska (under Russia and orthodox religion) vs. Alaska (under the US and dollar religion)

    Shortage of white women settlers (Siberia, S. America) vs. Presence of white women settlers (Anglo-Sphere)

    Native populations fared the best under Russians and Catholics. Better when there was a strong central authority. Better when the settlers/invaders were from upper crusts of society. Better when settlers/invaders did not bring women. Overall because of these factors the natives suffered the most brutal and devastating treatment in Protestant America.

    Protestantism (Judaism as well), weak central authority, low class and presence of women makes a perfect genocidal brew.

     

    Replies: @Yevardian

    Low Class Settlers (Australia) vs. Upper Class Settlers (New Zealand)

    Even if they’re relatively close geographically, both the geography and the pre-colonial native cultures are so radically different that they’re scarcely at comparable as sort of real-life case study. Also, the vast majority of the British that arrived in Australia were free settlers, although the founder effect of convicts does play some part. The settlers arriving in New Zealand were not ‘upper class’, though they were slightly richer, I don’t think many upper-class people anywhere just abandon everything they have to resettle in a wilderness on the other side of the planet.

    Although funnily enough, a large reason cited (at the time) for New Zealand being separated from Australia as a British juristiction was to the Empire had some sort of paternalistic interest in protecting the native Maori people there. New Zealand only even reached a European majority after the 1860s, whilst Australia can safely be assumed to have had one a decade or so after convicts were sent there.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Yevardian

    I misstated the case about the upper classes but certainly NZ had a higher class of settlers than AUS and colonization of NZ was planned. To be allowed to emigrate one had to obtain certification of more rectitude form one's pastor. Maoris were not ripped off because laws were followed. Anyway, NZ is a perfect example that central authority and higher moral standards of colonists led to much better treatment of natives.


    Humanitarian Governance in Colonial New Zealand (1833 – 1872)
    https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/144082/mwoodbur_1.pdf

    Unlike other examples of colonial expansion based largely on military conquest or assumptions of terra nullius, however, advocates of annexation pointed to the contractual and joint nature of the document as marking a qualitative shift in the history of empire. Instead of relying on force, New Zealand’s annexation via a treaty recognizing the rights of Māori established New Zealand as an experiment in colonial governance.
     

    Colonization, Education, and the Formation of Moral Character: Edward Gibbon Wakefield’s A Letter from Sydney
    https://carleton.ca/socanth/wp-content/uploads/curtis-colonization.pdf

    Similarly, in America, relative wealth did not lead to leisure, reflection, or self- cultivation. Instead, the high price of labour caused by the easy availability of land encouraged sloth.
     

    Edward Gibbon Wakefifield and the development of his theory of “Systematic Colonization”
    https://digitalcommons.unomaha.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1448&context=studentwork
     

    Replies: @sb

  281. @Thulean Friend
    Ben Aris has a great write-up on the current Russian-Ukrainian crisis. He makes a powerful case that this is in fact unfinished business from the mid-2000s and that Russian-US relations are at the core of it.

    He dismisses any invasion as an unserious proposition out of hand (I would agree), and argues that Putin has given up on any partnership with the West and now wants to revert to various Cold War mechanisms that would paradoxically increase the chance for peace.

    Despite militaristic noises from the WH, Biden has agreed on opening talks to several of Putin's demands. These noises serve as a distraction, not least to the inflamed domestic opinion against Russia (particularly among Biden's own progressive middle-class base). In essence, these statements act as a shield.

    One can only hope that cooler heads will prevail, but I fundamentally agree that any serious chance of an invasion is off the table.

    Replies: @Aedib

    Mercouris have similar opinion. According to his opinion, while Russia can easily smash the Ukraine army; the 100K troops are not enough for an offensive/occupation operation. They are here deterring the Kiev regime to attack the Donbass republics. He also states that, while the Ukrainian army has improved from 2014, the Donbass force has evolved and has improved much further and, although smaller, can inflict very heavy losses to the Ukrainian attacking side. The key here is that some Ukrainian puppets wanting to please their Atlanticist masters may order an attack expecting a Russian counterattack. But, according him, the Donbas army (now is an organized army) plus some Russian “volunteers” would bleed and neutralize the offensive in the current reality of trench warfare.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Aedib

    How would a NATO response function in term of logistics? Russia's biggest advantage is, oddly enough, Turkey.

    Does Erdogan want to open up a Northern Front for land he is unlikely to keep? He is already doing poorly on the Southern Front in Syria. It seems highly unlikely.

    Do the U.S. & UK trust Erdogan enough to rely on supply lines through his politically and economically unstable train wreck? This also seems highly unlikely. Admittedly, Not-The-President Biden is irrational. However, it is hard to see his handlers permitting a difficult, possibly nuclear, war.

    Bypassing Turkey and using Greece as the NATO logistics hub makes military sense. However, that implies military aircraft leaving Greece and over flying Turkey, plus supply vessels transiting the Bosphorus. There are all sorts of political complications down that road.

    The Ukrainians are engaged in dangerous self deception if they think NATO troops would come to their rescue.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib, @Mr. Hack

  282. @Aedib
    @Thulean Friend

    Mercouris have similar opinion. According to his opinion, while Russia can easily smash the Ukraine army; the 100K troops are not enough for an offensive/occupation operation. They are here deterring the Kiev regime to attack the Donbass republics. He also states that, while the Ukrainian army has improved from 2014, the Donbass force has evolved and has improved much further and, although smaller, can inflict very heavy losses to the Ukrainian attacking side. The key here is that some Ukrainian puppets wanting to please their Atlanticist masters may order an attack expecting a Russian counterattack. But, according him, the Donbas army (now is an organized army) plus some Russian “volunteers” would bleed and neutralize the offensive in the current reality of trench warfare.

    Replies: @A123

    How would a NATO response function in term of logistics? Russia’s biggest advantage is, oddly enough, Turkey.

    Does Erdogan want to open up a Northern Front for land he is unlikely to keep? He is already doing poorly on the Southern Front in Syria. It seems highly unlikely.

    Do the U.S. & UK trust Erdogan enough to rely on supply lines through his politically and economically unstable train wreck? This also seems highly unlikely. Admittedly, Not-The-President Biden is irrational. However, it is hard to see his handlers permitting a difficult, possibly nuclear, war.

    Bypassing Turkey and using Greece as the NATO logistics hub makes military sense. However, that implies military aircraft leaving Greece and over flying Turkey, plus supply vessels transiting the Bosphorus. There are all sorts of political complications down that road.

    The Ukrainians are engaged in dangerous self deception if they think NATO troops would come to their rescue.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @A123

    Another article, also in the line of Mercouris' analysis. It seems that different views started to converge into the same big picture.

    https://www.intellinews.com/a-possible-moscow-game-plan-begins-to-emerge-from-the-fog-of-almost-war-230357/?source=russia

    Replies: @AP, @Mikhail

    , @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    No, I don't think that the Ukrainians are expecting direct involvement by NATO troops if a full scale war were to break out. I think that it would be more like what broke out in 2014, a proxy war where both sides would include military advisors from Russia and the US (that are already there in this capacity). This would ratchet things up but not include the totally devastating and dangerous after effects of a full scale war. But, as I've already mentioned above in comment #252, a large upscale attack backed by Russia seems to me to be folly at this time, as the ongoing PR campaign advertising the possibility of war has already helped prepare the Ukrainian side immensely, taking the element of a surprise attack off the table, that was so helpful to the separatist's side in 2014.

  283. @A123
    @Aedib

    How would a NATO response function in term of logistics? Russia's biggest advantage is, oddly enough, Turkey.

    Does Erdogan want to open up a Northern Front for land he is unlikely to keep? He is already doing poorly on the Southern Front in Syria. It seems highly unlikely.

    Do the U.S. & UK trust Erdogan enough to rely on supply lines through his politically and economically unstable train wreck? This also seems highly unlikely. Admittedly, Not-The-President Biden is irrational. However, it is hard to see his handlers permitting a difficult, possibly nuclear, war.

    Bypassing Turkey and using Greece as the NATO logistics hub makes military sense. However, that implies military aircraft leaving Greece and over flying Turkey, plus supply vessels transiting the Bosphorus. There are all sorts of political complications down that road.

    The Ukrainians are engaged in dangerous self deception if they think NATO troops would come to their rescue.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib, @Mr. Hack

    Another article, also in the line of Mercouris’ analysis. It seems that different views started to converge into the same big picture.

    https://www.intellinews.com/a-possible-moscow-game-plan-begins-to-emerge-from-the-fog-of-almost-war-230357/?source=russia

    • Replies: @AP
    @Aedib

    This nonsense from the link automatically discredits the article's author:

    "To finish my thought experiment, Ukraine plays the role of the state of Texas (which has only been a state for six generations, less time than Ukraine has been a part of mother Russia). Picture your alarm at the prospect of Texas joining the “Mexico-Canada-China” alliance to experience how President Putin feels at the prospect of Ukraine as a member of Nato."

    Ukraine was a fully integrated part of Russia for about 150 years (1765 when the autonomous Hetmanate was abolished until 1917). Texas has been a part of the USA for 172 years (1845-2021, minus 4 years during the Civil War). Texans do not speak a different language, etc, etc. It's a stupid analogy.


    Meanwhile, an agreement to talk buys time for Moscow to apply both carrot and stick to Ukraine’s swithering middle to persuade them to federate with Russia.
     
    Such wishful thinking. Without Crimea and Donbas, Ukraine lacks the electorate to ever want federation with Russia. Run every election since like 2000 without Crimea and Donbas and you get a strong pro-Western result. Even the loss of Crimea would be enough at this point, given that the margins were close before and Donbass people have not been having kids for the last 30 years. Author is either a gullible westerner dependent on Russian sources or a Russian wishful thinker.

    Replies: @Aedib

    , @Mikhail
    @Aedib

    Western mass media and body politic have ignored the otherwise obvious pertaining back to the hoopla of this past spring.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/07/18/getting-putin-intentions-wrong-again-on-russia-ukraine/

    Replies: @Aedib

  284. @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa


    I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.
     
    I think something similar could happen when say a historian writes his narrative and fails to include certain facts and choses to emphasize others. These sorts of dichotomies of opinions and history can often be encountered here at UNZ regarding the holocaust narrative, even by our host Mr. Unz, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, the use of wacky characterizations and the logistics of ideas being ridiculed can be dramatically overemphasized within an effective political cartoon. Could you include an example or two of some of your favorite cartoons by Calvin and Hobbes?

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Barbarossa

  285. @A123
    @Aedib

    How would a NATO response function in term of logistics? Russia's biggest advantage is, oddly enough, Turkey.

    Does Erdogan want to open up a Northern Front for land he is unlikely to keep? He is already doing poorly on the Southern Front in Syria. It seems highly unlikely.

    Do the U.S. & UK trust Erdogan enough to rely on supply lines through his politically and economically unstable train wreck? This also seems highly unlikely. Admittedly, Not-The-President Biden is irrational. However, it is hard to see his handlers permitting a difficult, possibly nuclear, war.

    Bypassing Turkey and using Greece as the NATO logistics hub makes military sense. However, that implies military aircraft leaving Greece and over flying Turkey, plus supply vessels transiting the Bosphorus. There are all sorts of political complications down that road.

    The Ukrainians are engaged in dangerous self deception if they think NATO troops would come to their rescue.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib, @Mr. Hack

    No, I don’t think that the Ukrainians are expecting direct involvement by NATO troops if a full scale war were to break out. I think that it would be more like what broke out in 2014, a proxy war where both sides would include military advisors from Russia and the US (that are already there in this capacity). This would ratchet things up but not include the totally devastating and dangerous after effects of a full scale war. But, as I’ve already mentioned above in comment #252, a large upscale attack backed by Russia seems to me to be folly at this time, as the ongoing PR campaign advertising the possibility of war has already helped prepare the Ukrainian side immensely, taking the element of a surprise attack off the table, that was so helpful to the separatist’s side in 2014.

  286. @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa


    I would suspect that a neutrally worded news story would call up different reactions if images of mothers and children looking forlorn accompany it rather than aggressive looking males at a chain link fence.
     
    I think something similar could happen when say a historian writes his narrative and fails to include certain facts and choses to emphasize others. These sorts of dichotomies of opinions and history can often be encountered here at UNZ regarding the holocaust narrative, even by our host Mr. Unz, if I'm not mistaken. Of course, the use of wacky characterizations and the logistics of ideas being ridiculed can be dramatically overemphasized within an effective political cartoon. Could you include an example or two of some of your favorite cartoons by Calvin and Hobbes?

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Barbarossa

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks! Yes, somehow the "Calvin and Hobbes" franchise escaped my purview. I wonder how Calvin's new more traditional way of seeing things would have him view the "dog/man ?" photo above in #250? :-)

    , @Barbarossa
    @Barbarossa

    Hmmm. That didn't work quite as expected. The links didn't embed as images. Any ideas on what I did wrong?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  287. @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    This one is particularly entertaining. At first I didn’t get it…and then! 🙂

    He’d have to be quite large to be a dog though.
     
    I suspect it is a fish-eye(?) lens very close to a good sized dog. The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The "head" is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.

    However, I am not sure.....

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The “head” is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.

    I’m not sure either, but that front limb (left to the dog, right to the man). to my eye, makes more sense as the back leg of a man, than the front leg of a dog. It’s just too long to be a dog’s front leg, and the foot at the bottom of a dog’s right leg seems to be folded under backwards somehow?…

    I actually purchased this type of a tee-shirt online a couple of years ago. Something like it could have been used to help stage this incredibly deceptive photo:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack

    Did that T-shirt have the dog's face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.

    What makes me most suspicious is the "human head". Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog's tail.

    The more I look at it, the more I am convinced it is a dog very close to camera with a wide angle or other unusual lens. The front leg is distorted by the lens choice.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  288. @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I'd gladly share some Calvin and Hobbes. Never heard of it?

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QZtNmECRM2k%2FTjXLZbKoI7I%2FAAAAAAAAASk%2FLEvWsXULgwE%2Fs1600%2FClipboard01.jpg&f=1&nofb=1



    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.VMjjLiicCHOwJK_abhNRqQHaEo%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3R-iarggtPmJLM5wI8eY1AHaFQ%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    Thanks! Yes, somehow the “Calvin and Hobbes” franchise escaped my purview. I wonder how Calvin’s new more traditional way of seeing things would have him view the “dog/man ?” photo above in #250? 🙂

  289. @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    linguistic situation on the ground
     
    You can hear in the supermarkets (like Eroski) or train station, the announcements are in Euskera.

    In this context, it sounds at first in your ears like Spanish, because the official announcer speak this language with the same sounds or accent. But Mikel was angry with me last time I wrote something like this, so probably I should not say any more opinions from my vacation there. I was not exploring the villages.


    Wales and Basque country are interesting to me also
     
    A difference is also in Wales, they also speak English, with a very different accent from the standard English. Their accent sounds like Swedish or Norwegian people speaking English.

    Whereas in Euskadi, they speak in Spanish, in what sounds like to me the standardized accent of Spain. Or at least, the Spanish there doesn't sound different for a language learner of my level, than in the other Northern areas in Spain. Although I'm not too good to notice the accents in Spain - I can only notice the Andalusia accent is different from normal in Spain.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Mikel was angry with me last time I wrote something like this, so probably I should not say any more opinions from my vacation there

    Not at all. Feel free to criticize Spain and praise the Basques as much as you want. Although ancestry.com estimates that I am 15% Spanish so just don’t overdo it.

    Anyway, I am much more interested in what happens in the US than over there. It’s much more interesting and less repetitive.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel

    So, for the record are we to understand that you're 85% of Basque ancestry and in your extreme youth you were brought up in a traditional Basque speaking family and yet you've now evolved into a more cosmopolitan Iberian (see "Spanish") sort of a world citizen? I find your story interesting, in some respects it may have similarities to my own...

    Replies: @Mikel

  290. @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    The limb/leg towards the camera does not work as either unless it is photo optically distorted in camera. The “head” is also more convincing as a fluffy tail with lens distortion.
     
    I'm not sure either, but that front limb (left to the dog, right to the man). to my eye, makes more sense as the back leg of a man, than the front leg of a dog. It's just too long to be a dog's front leg, and the foot at the bottom of a dog's right leg seems to be folded under backwards somehow?...

    I actually purchased this type of a tee-shirt online a couple of years ago. Something like it could have been used to help stage this incredibly deceptive photo:


    https://clothingmonster.com/5587-thickbox_default/funny-dog-t-shirt.jpg

    Replies: @A123

    Did that T-shirt have the dog’s face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.

    What makes me most suspicious is the “human head”. Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog’s tail.

    The more I look at it, the more I am convinced it is a dog very close to camera with a wide angle or other unusual lens. The front leg is distorted by the lens choice.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    Did that T-shirt have the dog’s face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.
     
    It did not, however, it's quite large and it would be little effort to just wear it backwards (there are even larger sizes too).

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.
     
    Perhaps, and I see your point. I'm starting to see more credence for the dog image now...

    What makes me most suspicious is the “human head”. Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog’s tail.
     
    I'm not able to do a super zoom on the protruding back piece. I can still envision a guy's head with a dover style hat on top...if it's a piece of shrubbery, it's foundation seems out of place, inside the pathway being used. Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It's definitely a cleverly made deception, as we're still discussing its meaning. :-)

    Replies: @A123, @A123

  291. @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I'd gladly share some Calvin and Hobbes. Never heard of it?

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QZtNmECRM2k%2FTjXLZbKoI7I%2FAAAAAAAAASk%2FLEvWsXULgwE%2Fs1600%2FClipboard01.jpg&f=1&nofb=1



    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.VMjjLiicCHOwJK_abhNRqQHaEo%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.3R-iarggtPmJLM5wI8eY1AHaFQ%26pid%3DApi&f=1

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    Hmmm. That didn’t work quite as expected. The links didn’t embed as images. Any ideas on what I did wrong?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    Bear in mind that there are two kinds of images. Either when you copy/paste the image address over somewhere else, it will either provide the image desired, or it won't. You've just discovered the second variety. If it doesn't work (as in your case) you need to go back to the original image and right click on it and look for the entry that provides a link to "Search image with google lens". Once there, go to the side where it states "Didn't find what you were looking for? Retry with google images" Now, you've almost hit pay dirt. At the very top you should find something like this:

    Image size:
    575 × 411!
    Find other sizes of this image:
    All sizes - Medium - Large

    I usually search for medium size images. Your work is still not over, since you have to individually find one that presents the image that you're after, and not just its image address. Good luck! (And I'm sure that many readers here have thought that these images that some of us like to present are an easy proposition. :-) )

    Replies: @A123

  292. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    Mikel was angry with me last time I wrote something like this, so probably I should not say any more opinions from my vacation there
     
    Not at all. Feel free to criticize Spain and praise the Basques as much as you want. Although ancestry.com estimates that I am 15% Spanish so just don't overdo it.

    Anyway, I am much more interested in what happens in the US than over there. It's much more interesting and less repetitive.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    So, for the record are we to understand that you’re 85% of Basque ancestry and in your extreme youth you were brought up in a traditional Basque speaking family and yet you’ve now evolved into a more cosmopolitan Iberian (see “Spanish”) sort of a world citizen? I find your story interesting, in some respects it may have similarities to my own…

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack

    Not exactly. I did evolve to some cosmopolitanism and even sympathy for Spain when my countrymen were practicing terrorism but when that stopped, which was approximately at the time when Spain proved to be a irredeemable member of the PIGS group during the Great Recession, I returned to my Basque roots.

    Now, however, my focus is entirely on the beautiful paradise where I live in the Rocky Mountains. My younger son only speaks English and I won't try to instill in him any allegiance to a foreign country.

    The Basque cause is long lost anyway. We are too small and Spain and France flooded our territories with their own people so a majority of the inhabitants in the Basque Country now are not ethnic Basques. When german_reader expresses fears that he will once live in a country where his ethnic group will be a minority, it reminds me of the situation in my old country.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Agathoklis

  293. @AP
    @songbird


    IMO, historical population estimates without a census, or DNA extracted from heaps of skeletons are, akin to astrology, only with the further complication of politics.
     
    Sure, it may be messy enough to make arguments involving comparable populations silly. But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    "But the English-settled Canadian maritime provinces have 45,000 Indians."..

    And it might be the same, if the French had never lost them
     

    Well, Quebec which the French held onto has twice as many.

    The English also tried to ethnically cleanse the French from the Maritimes, deporting about 80%.


    There are no New England Latinos, that have their roots from Plymouth. Yes, I concede that. But you must concede this: there were no cities there. No giant pyramids upon which to build cathedrals. No artificial islands connected by causeways and bridges. No irrigation.
     
    Correct, one would not expect a large Mestizo plurality or majority in a place like New England. One would expect something like a Metis group (there is a French-speaking Metis for every tenth French person in Canada) or a Russian Creole, in addition to many more remaining Indians.

    It was what mass murdering demon-worshipping culture deserved. How decadent and morally depraved would someone have to be, to view that destruction as some sort of tragedy?

    The Inca didn’t do that.
     

    They certainly weren't as bad as the Aztecs but the civilized Indians of the Andes also sacrificed people on a large scale:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-43928277

    Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history

    ::::::::::

    Wiping out the Aztec culture was enough to redeem crimes. Aztecs were sacrificing 20,000 per year (conservative estimate) - 2 million in a 100 years. Ending that, and bringing beauty and culture to the peoples they ruled, made up for whatever bad the Spaniards did.


    Since we live arguably in the most degenerate times ever
     
    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate. The gleeful sadism of the Chekists was far more degenerate than some trans parades or stuff like this:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-latina-makes-history-evangelical-lutheran-pastor-n1100831

    Transgender Latina makes history as Evangelical Lutheran pastor

    Replies: @songbird

    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges, and ingress to outsiders, I might agree with you, but they don’t.

    [MORE]

    The English also tried to ethnically cleanse the French from the Maritimes, deporting about 80%.

    Brutal, but sound strategic sense, for the victor. The French lost, or they may have done the same to parts of the Thirteen Colonies.

    They certainly weren’t as bad as the Aztecs but the civilized Indians of the Andes also sacrificed people on a large scale:

    There are a lot of complicating factors here. They were probably trying to maximize moral outcomes (such as survivability in famine), with improper science.

    Thais practiced human sacrifice into the 1870s. They stopped by being exposed to the ideas of outsiders and wanting to emulate them, rather than having their culture destroyed.

    Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history

    The Tophet at Carthage had 20,000 urns filled with the bones of children and animals. Some lack of clarity there, but I suspect it was larger.

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.

    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.

    At its core, real degeneracy is about the decline in virtue that average men and women and children have. It is somewhat separate from the power dynamic scenario or from warfare.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges
     
    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England. Temperature is not much different from northern New England - Burlington VT and Portland ME have annual mean temperatures only 3 degrees warmer F than does Montreal. These regions literally border each other.

    Southern New England is considerably warmer; this would suggest a larger native population than Quebec.

    A google search indicated numerous massacres of Indians by English colonists (and vice versa). None of Indians by French in Quebec (Indians massacred some French settlers but the French governor stopped efforts at retaliation):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.

    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.
     
    1890 Europeans wouldn't have killed millions of fellow Europeans in concentration camps. In 1914-1918 Europeans slaughtered each other on the battlefield by the millions but did not kill women and children in concentration camps. The mid 20th century was degeneracy.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.
     
    These places were not degenerate, as Germany was at the time. Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn't have, even if given the chance to.

    Killing millions in concentration camps, making lampshades out of human skin, engaging in sadistic murder or gang raping noble women as Cheka did - is more degenerate than cross-dressing while reading childrens' books.

    Replies: @sher singh, @songbird

  294. @Barbarossa
    @Barbarossa

    Hmmm. That didn't work quite as expected. The links didn't embed as images. Any ideas on what I did wrong?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Bear in mind that there are two kinds of images. Either when you copy/paste the image address over somewhere else, it will either provide the image desired, or it won’t. You’ve just discovered the second variety. If it doesn’t work (as in your case) you need to go back to the original image and right click on it and look for the entry that provides a link to “Search image with google lens”. Once there, go to the side where it states “Didn’t find what you were looking for? Retry with google images” Now, you’ve almost hit pay dirt. At the very top you should find something like this:

    Image size:
    575 × 411!
    Find other sizes of this image:
    All sizes – Medium – Large

    I usually search for medium size images. Your work is still not over, since you have to individually find one that presents the image that you’re after, and not just its image address. Good luck! (And I’m sure that many readers here have thought that these images that some of us like to present are an easy proposition. 🙂 )

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack

    From DuckDuckGo, one can "View File" to go to the directly linked source. Make sure to end at "jpf" or another permitted image format.

    Alternately one can deconstruct the DDG link:

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    This is the desired link detail information:

    http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg

    Final changes are:
    -- Adding an "s" after http (if needed)
    -- Replacing %3A with a ":" colon
    -- Replacing %2F with "/" forward slash

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    https://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  295. @Aedib
    @A123

    Another article, also in the line of Mercouris' analysis. It seems that different views started to converge into the same big picture.

    https://www.intellinews.com/a-possible-moscow-game-plan-begins-to-emerge-from-the-fog-of-almost-war-230357/?source=russia

    Replies: @AP, @Mikhail

    This nonsense from the link automatically discredits the article’s author:

    “To finish my thought experiment, Ukraine plays the role of the state of Texas (which has only been a state for six generations, less time than Ukraine has been a part of mother Russia). Picture your alarm at the prospect of Texas joining the “Mexico-Canada-China” alliance to experience how President Putin feels at the prospect of Ukraine as a member of Nato.”

    Ukraine was a fully integrated part of Russia for about 150 years (1765 when the autonomous Hetmanate was abolished until 1917). Texas has been a part of the USA for 172 years (1845-2021, minus 4 years during the Civil War). Texans do not speak a different language, etc, etc. It’s a stupid analogy.

    Meanwhile, an agreement to talk buys time for Moscow to apply both carrot and stick to Ukraine’s swithering middle to persuade them to federate with Russia.

    Such wishful thinking. Without Crimea and Donbas, Ukraine lacks the electorate to ever want federation with Russia. Run every election since like 2000 without Crimea and Donbas and you get a strong pro-Western result. Even the loss of Crimea would be enough at this point, given that the margins were close before and Donbass people have not been having kids for the last 30 years. Author is either a gullible westerner dependent on Russian sources or a Russian wishful thinker.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @AP

    OK. You can replace the first sentence by "Ukraine plays the role of of Cuba" if you like.

    Replies: @AP

  296. @AP
    @Aedib

    This nonsense from the link automatically discredits the article's author:

    "To finish my thought experiment, Ukraine plays the role of the state of Texas (which has only been a state for six generations, less time than Ukraine has been a part of mother Russia). Picture your alarm at the prospect of Texas joining the “Mexico-Canada-China” alliance to experience how President Putin feels at the prospect of Ukraine as a member of Nato."

    Ukraine was a fully integrated part of Russia for about 150 years (1765 when the autonomous Hetmanate was abolished until 1917). Texas has been a part of the USA for 172 years (1845-2021, minus 4 years during the Civil War). Texans do not speak a different language, etc, etc. It's a stupid analogy.


    Meanwhile, an agreement to talk buys time for Moscow to apply both carrot and stick to Ukraine’s swithering middle to persuade them to federate with Russia.
     
    Such wishful thinking. Without Crimea and Donbas, Ukraine lacks the electorate to ever want federation with Russia. Run every election since like 2000 without Crimea and Donbas and you get a strong pro-Western result. Even the loss of Crimea would be enough at this point, given that the margins were close before and Donbass people have not been having kids for the last 30 years. Author is either a gullible westerner dependent on Russian sources or a Russian wishful thinker.

    Replies: @Aedib

    OK. You can replace the first sentence by “Ukraine plays the role of of Cuba” if you like.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Aedib

    Cuba wasn’t allowed to have nuclear weapons but it was allowed to be part of the Soviet economic system rather than the American one, and to have an extremely anti-American government involved in anti-American hijinks throughout the world.

    Replies: @Aedib

  297. @Yevardian
    @utu


    Low Class Settlers (Australia) vs. Upper Class Settlers (New Zealand)
     
    Even if they're relatively close geographically, both the geography and the pre-colonial native cultures are so radically different that they're scarcely at comparable as sort of real-life case study. Also, the vast majority of the British that arrived in Australia were free settlers, although the founder effect of convicts does play some part. The settlers arriving in New Zealand were not 'upper class', though they were slightly richer, I don't think many upper-class people anywhere just abandon everything they have to resettle in a wilderness on the other side of the planet.

    Although funnily enough, a large reason cited (at the time) for New Zealand being separated from Australia as a British juristiction was to the Empire had some sort of paternalistic interest in protecting the native Maori people there. New Zealand only even reached a European majority after the 1860s, whilst Australia can safely be assumed to have had one a decade or so after convicts were sent there.

    Replies: @utu

    I misstated the case about the upper classes but certainly NZ had a higher class of settlers than AUS and colonization of NZ was planned. To be allowed to emigrate one had to obtain certification of more rectitude form one’s pastor. Maoris were not ripped off because laws were followed. Anyway, NZ is a perfect example that central authority and higher moral standards of colonists led to much better treatment of natives.

    Humanitarian Governance in Colonial New Zealand (1833 – 1872)
    https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/144082/mwoodbur_1.pdf

    Unlike other examples of colonial expansion based largely on military conquest or assumptions of terra nullius, however, advocates of annexation pointed to the contractual and joint nature of the document as marking a qualitative shift in the history of empire. Instead of relying on force, New Zealand’s annexation via a treaty recognizing the rights of Māori established New Zealand as an experiment in colonial governance.

    Colonization, Education, and the Formation of Moral Character: Edward Gibbon Wakefield’s A Letter from Sydney
    https://carleton.ca/socanth/wp-content/uploads/curtis-colonization.pdf

    Similarly, in America, relative wealth did not lead to leisure, reflection, or self- cultivation. Instead, the high price of labour caused by the easy availability of land encouraged sloth.

    Edward Gibbon Wakefifield and the development of his theory of “Systematic Colonization”
    https://digitalcommons.unomaha.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1448&context=studentwork

    • Replies: @sb
    @utu

    The main difference between the settlements of Australia and New Zealand was that Australia had more Irish Catholics ie more prone to an anti Mother Country mentality
    In the 19th century there were 7 British settler colonies in the Antipodes and New Zealand wasn't seen as particularly different to the other 6. There was much movement between the colonies .

    The reason the Maoris were treated differently to the Australian aborigines was that they were one very big united tribe who could put up a decent fight against the white interlopers . The difference with the Australian experience wasn't in the character of the white interlopers of the various colonies who were remarkably similar notwithstanding ex post facto attempts to say how different they were

  298. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel

    So, for the record are we to understand that you're 85% of Basque ancestry and in your extreme youth you were brought up in a traditional Basque speaking family and yet you've now evolved into a more cosmopolitan Iberian (see "Spanish") sort of a world citizen? I find your story interesting, in some respects it may have similarities to my own...

    Replies: @Mikel

    Not exactly. I did evolve to some cosmopolitanism and even sympathy for Spain when my countrymen were practicing terrorism but when that stopped, which was approximately at the time when Spain proved to be a irredeemable member of the PIGS group during the Great Recession, I returned to my Basque roots.

    Now, however, my focus is entirely on the beautiful paradise where I live in the Rocky Mountains. My younger son only speaks English and I won’t try to instill in him any allegiance to a foreign country.

    The Basque cause is long lost anyway. We are too small and Spain and France flooded our territories with their own people so a majority of the inhabitants in the Basque Country now are not ethnic Basques. When german_reader expresses fears that he will once live in a country where his ethnic group will be a minority, it reminds me of the situation in my old country.

    • Disagree: Yevardian
    • LOL: Jatt Aryaa
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel

    I think that because Ukrainians live by and large in compact areas in North America, and there are many more of them that live here than those of Basque ancestry, their activism for the "old country" is on a much higher plane. Do you still have family back home that you're in touch with? Depending on what kind of a family you came from, this too, I think, has a great influence on how you view your attachments to the place of your birth. "Blood is thicker than water" and mother's milk is the best of all.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @Agathoklis
    @Mikel

    "My younger son only speaks English"

    Truly sad.

  299. @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack

    Not exactly. I did evolve to some cosmopolitanism and even sympathy for Spain when my countrymen were practicing terrorism but when that stopped, which was approximately at the time when Spain proved to be a irredeemable member of the PIGS group during the Great Recession, I returned to my Basque roots.

    Now, however, my focus is entirely on the beautiful paradise where I live in the Rocky Mountains. My younger son only speaks English and I won't try to instill in him any allegiance to a foreign country.

    The Basque cause is long lost anyway. We are too small and Spain and France flooded our territories with their own people so a majority of the inhabitants in the Basque Country now are not ethnic Basques. When german_reader expresses fears that he will once live in a country where his ethnic group will be a minority, it reminds me of the situation in my old country.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Agathoklis

    I think that because Ukrainians live by and large in compact areas in North America, and there are many more of them that live here than those of Basque ancestry, their activism for the “old country” is on a much higher plane. Do you still have family back home that you’re in touch with? Depending on what kind of a family you came from, this too, I think, has a great influence on how you view your attachments to the place of your birth. “Blood is thicker than water” and mother’s milk is the best of all.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack

    Here in the US West there are pockets of close-knit Basque communities too. Some have managed to keep the Basque language over generations.

    https://youtu.be/PZy8NqecHmQ

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  300. Perhaps, we should embrace blacks on currency.

    One idea might be to link inflation to the depiction of the thickness of their lips and special fat storage physiology, so that the more inflated the currency becomes, the larger these areas appear, in relation to the rest of the image.

    • LOL: sudden death
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @songbird

    There is this fat woman politician from Georgia who looks like she ate a rhino. She would look great on a $100 note replacing the-also fat Franklin. It would do wonders for dollar international valuation.

    At a minimum it would be a great test to measure "wokeness" around the world. I suspect that $100 bill would be unusable in Africa and Middle East, while in Scandinavia and Canada the devotees would make celebratory shrines.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Sara Bartman on the 100$ instead of Ben Franklin!

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7B5C/production/_87508513_spl.jpg

    Replies: @Mikhail

  301. @Aedib
    @A123

    Another article, also in the line of Mercouris' analysis. It seems that different views started to converge into the same big picture.

    https://www.intellinews.com/a-possible-moscow-game-plan-begins-to-emerge-from-the-fog-of-almost-war-230357/?source=russia

    Replies: @AP, @Mikhail

    Western mass media and body politic have ignored the otherwise obvious pertaining back to the hoopla of this past spring.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/07/18/getting-putin-intentions-wrong-again-on-russia-ukraine/

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Mikhail

    A Confederation between Russia and Ukraine is no longer feasible after Maidan because Russophobia is the core of the Maidan ideology. But a Confederation between Belarus, Russia and the Donbass may be feasible.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

  302. @songbird
    Perhaps, we should embrace blacks on currency.

    One idea might be to link inflation to the depiction of the thickness of their lips and special fat storage physiology, so that the more inflated the currency becomes, the larger these areas appear, in relation to the rest of the image.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    There is this fat woman politician from Georgia who looks like she ate a rhino. She would look great on a \$100 note replacing the-also fat Franklin. It would do wonders for dollar international valuation.

    At a minimum it would be a great test to measure “wokeness” around the world. I suspect that \$100 bill would be unusable in Africa and Middle East, while in Scandinavia and Canada the devotees would make celebratory shrines.

    • LOL: songbird
  303. @Aedib
    @AP

    OK. You can replace the first sentence by "Ukraine plays the role of of Cuba" if you like.

    Replies: @AP

    Cuba wasn’t allowed to have nuclear weapons but it was allowed to be part of the Soviet economic system rather than the American one, and to have an extremely anti-American government involved in anti-American hijinks throughout the world.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @AP

    So, the analogy is 100% right.

    Replies: @AP

  304. @Mikhail
    @Aedib

    Western mass media and body politic have ignored the otherwise obvious pertaining back to the hoopla of this past spring.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/07/18/getting-putin-intentions-wrong-again-on-russia-ukraine/

    Replies: @Aedib

    A Confederation between Russia and Ukraine is no longer feasible after Maidan because Russophobia is the core of the Maidan ideology. But a Confederation between Belarus, Russia and the Donbass may be feasible.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Aedib

    For the immediate future a yes to your point. Wouldn't completely rule out for the longer term. Consider how some one time realities were thought as likely unchangeable.

    Replies: @Aedib

    , @AP
    @Aedib


    A Confederation between Russia and Ukraine is no longer feasible after Maidan because Russophobia is the core of the Maidan ideology
     
    It wouldn't have been feasible on the territory of today's Ukraine even before Maidan - the population of those territories have voted for pro-Western parties seeking to move away from Russia since the 1990s. If Ukraine did not have Crimea and Donbas, Kravchuk would have beaten Kuchma in 1994, and Ukraine would have followed the Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. into the EU and probably NATO.

    After Maidan, Putin very helpfully (and against many Ukrainians' bad judgment) removed pro-Russian territories such that regardless of Maidan ideology Ukraine would not want confederation with Russia.

    With Crimea gone, even if Donbas were to return Ukraine would still have a comfortable pro-Western majority (though the pro-Russians would now be 40% or so of the population and would able to disrupt things). To get around that, Putin would want to give it special autonomy such as the ability to for its own economic treaties - ie., customs union with Russia - which would scuttle Ukraine's integration with the EU.
  305. @AP
    @Aedib

    Cuba wasn’t allowed to have nuclear weapons but it was allowed to be part of the Soviet economic system rather than the American one, and to have an extremely anti-American government involved in anti-American hijinks throughout the world.

    Replies: @Aedib

    So, the analogy is 100% right.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Aedib

    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU, and would not want Ukraine to be engaged in anti-Russian proxy wars as Cuba was.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail, @Aedib

  306. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  307. @Aedib
    @Mikhail

    A Confederation between Russia and Ukraine is no longer feasible after Maidan because Russophobia is the core of the Maidan ideology. But a Confederation between Belarus, Russia and the Donbass may be feasible.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

    For the immediate future a yes to your point. Wouldn’t completely rule out for the longer term. Consider how some one time realities were thought as likely unchangeable.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Mikhail

    I think, it is also no longer feasible in the long term. The Russophobe pro-Western indoctrination has successfully worked here. Another thing is how the Maidan project (i.e. a big rabid Russophobe “Cuba” next to Russia) will end. I think Huntington’s view is the likeliest one. Places like Ukraine, Nepal, Punjab + Kashmir, the US-Mexican cultural border (which is moving inside the USA from the south) are unstable fracture lines separating civilizational blocks.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  308. @Aedib
    @AP

    So, the analogy is 100% right.

    Replies: @AP

    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU, and would not want Ukraine to be engaged in anti-Russian proxy wars as Cuba was.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU
     
    It is not about what any side wants, it is about what they will accept. Russia doesn't care about Ukraine in EU, it is the EU that doesn't want to accept Ukraine. I think Russia simply pointed out that Kiev has to choose: either open markets with EU, or with Russia. Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU's unlimited access to Russia's markets through Ukraine.

    It is the fact that the post-Maidan Kiev refuses to make a choice, and EU refuses to accept Ukraine anyway, that has created this crisis.

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. Hack

    , @Mikhail
    @AP


    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU,
     
    Even more so, the US and EU political establishments don't want Ukraine in the Russian involved customs union. At the same time, the EU isn't so willing to take in Ukraine as a full fledged member.

    Russia is more concerned about Ukraine joining NATO at some point.
    , @Aedib
    @AP

    But the current Kiev’s regime love to perform anti-Russian activities and would love to behave as a proxy. Russian security forces have arrested several times Ukrainians terrorist wannabe (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717). I don´t know if the official Ukrainian policy is to inject terrorists in Russia (it could backfire badly) but these "mavericks" are the product of the Maidan ideology.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

  309. @songbird
    Perhaps, we should embrace blacks on currency.

    One idea might be to link inflation to the depiction of the thickness of their lips and special fat storage physiology, so that the more inflated the currency becomes, the larger these areas appear, in relation to the rest of the image.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Sara Bartman on the 100\$ instead of Ben Franklin!

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Underscores Sir Mix A Lot:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X53ZSxkQ3Ho

  310. @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Taiwan (pop 23 million) has a bigger weight in that “EM index” than India (pop 1400 million) is part of the problem
     
    Doesn't it show a problem in the concept "emerging market fund", when the fund managers choose to invest so much in Taiwan?

    Because a developed, democratic, modern country (Taiwan) is classified as an emerging market, so the fund managers invest the money there.

    It implies, that even emerging market fund managers believe that it is better to invest in more developed countries. So then why should you invest in an emerging market fund, instead of invest in developed countries ourselves? It seems like the emerging market fund managers don't really believe in emerging markets.

    Although to be honest, I only looked at the Vanguard ETF. I'm looking at the BlackRock one now, and it's similar as the Vanguard.

    One of the differences of BlackRock compared to Vanguard, seems that they include Samsung - so BlackRock still include Korea for the emerging market fund.

    https://i.imgur.com/lIKMg00.jpg

    I guess if we had to invest in one of them, then BlackRock would be slightly more attractive. Because of the Korean investments gives them additional options of investments in a lower risk environment.


    Korea and Israel put in the EM category, which is insane.
     
    Well it looks like Korea is still in EM category for BlackRock's practical decisions?

    And Israel had benefited from it, like Taiwan. After the 2010 upgrade from emerging market, Israel has received less investment.

    The story about Israel this week, is they are hoping to be re-classified from the Middle East to Europe, as they are currently the only non-emerging market in the Middle East. (Kuwait and UAE are still classified emerging markets).

    You can see the article in Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/msci-considers-new-region-israeli-index-with-potential-windfall-2021-12-16/

    "Israel lost large emerging market passive investments with its upgrade to a developed one more than a decade ago, when it went from more than 3% in the emerging market index to less than 0.5% of the developed one, and daily trade volumes in Tel Aviv have still not fully recovered."

    -

    I noticed BlackRock has an Israel ETF. It was mainly flat for a decade. In the last year, it was suddenly very successful. And still much of the companies which BlackRock's Israel ETF invests, are listed in NASDAQ rather than the local market.
    https://i.imgur.com/vdqWviO.jpg


    There aren’t many outside of East Asia and possibly India. The Nature Index is a good proxy for O-ring sector development.

     

    It's funny they invest much of the money to Chinese e-commerce platforms like Alibaba and Tencent.

    For my imagination of an emerging market fund, I was naively guessing more things like investments in companies like Mittal steel, Gazprom, Petrobras?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    BlackRock compared to Vanguard, seems that they include Samsung – so BlackRock still include Korea for the emerging market fund.

    I found the reason is because BlackRock uses the MSCI emerging market classification. South Korea is still included as an emerging market by MSCI.

    However Vanguard is using the FTSE emerging market index, which does not include South Korea anymore.

    These funds are actively managed and decided to weigh most of their investments to China and Taiwan in the last years.

    It’s funny they invest much of the money to Chinese e-commerce platforms like Alibaba and Tencent.

    For my imagination of an emerging market fund, I was naively guessing more things like investments in companies like Mittal steel, Gazprom, Petrobras?

    I also found the answer for this, is because the fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.

    So as a result, they actively manage the funds, and add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.

    ““In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF (VWO) and the iShares MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (EEM).

    “What we’ve done is create really the tip of the spear not just of growth in emerging markets, but in the entire world,” Carter said of EMQQ.

    The ETF is 66% weighted toward internet services stocks, 8% department stores, 6% software and 4% real estate services. It is also 64% Hong Kong and Chinese stocks, with Alibaba, Tencent, Pinduoduo and Meituan making up the top 29% of the portfolio.” https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/broad-emerging-market-indexes-are-broken-etf-manager-says.html

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.

    The article says about another emerging market fund that invests in countries with more “freedom and liberty”.

    “Another way to look at the emerging markets trade is through the lens of freedom and liberty, at least according to Perth Tolle, founder of Life + Liberty Indexes.”

    “Her firm runs the index behind the Alpha Architect Freedom 100 Emerging Market ETF (FRDM), which weighs its holdings based on civil, political and economic freedom metrics.”

    “Its top holdings are Taiwan Semiconductor, Samsung Electronics and Bank of Central Asia. With no allocation to China, its top weightings by country are Taiwan at 20%, Chile at 17%, South Korea also at 17% and Poland at 16%.”

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.
     
    Indeed, a lot of EM fund managers failed to understand that it was a Chinese-driven supercycle that drove commodity prices up and hence 'lifted all boats'. Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.

    add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.
     
    The tech rally we've seen over the past decade, which has made me a lot of money, will continue. There are two structural reasons for this. The first is that technological advancements beget advancements. In other words, as latencies come tumbling down, business models that were previously impossible suddenly become feasible.

    The second reason is a more philosophical. If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology. Still, even if you get the macro trend right you nonetheless have to be disciplined enough to make discerning choices between various companies in the same field.

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.
     

    Yes, I've largely avoided Chinese firms well before Trump for this very reason. I have a cynical understanding of the US, and of world politics in general, but it has helped me in avoiding unnecessary losses. The US doesn't tolerate competitors. But neither does the CCP, which means Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.

    ““In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF.
     

    I've invested in a Vietnamese ETF linked to their broader index funds. It has made me some amount of money, but it's nothing spectacular. I will hold them for the long haul. Vietnam differs from Brazil in that it's a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it's big, so you can have individual firms doing well but I am not optimistic about the broad macro story there. Indexed ETFs should only be bought for highly competitive eocnomies (I only own three: US, Denmark and Vietnam). I would have invested in China if not for the politics.

    P.S. I don't recall you being this engaged in these topics before. A recent change of heart or are you just more open with it?
    I disagree with this quote.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

  311. So, it was not exclusively just Baerbock’s activism, the true(?) leader of the German Greens has quite similar stance regarding NS2:

    Economic Affairs Minister Robert Habeck said Germany could halt the controversial pipeline if Russia invades Ukraine. He also called the project a “geopolitical mistake.”

    “Any new military action cannot remain without severe consequences,” he told the Sunday edition of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, referring to Russian troop deployment on the Ukrainian border.

    Habeck warned that “nothing can be excluded,” including blocking the pipeline from operation, if “there is a new violation of the territorial integrity” of Ukraine.

    “In the event of further escalation this gas pipeline could not come into service,” Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said earlier this week.

    Habeck added: “From a geopolitical point of view, the pipeline is a mistake… All the countries were against it except Germany and Austria.”

    https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-german-minister-warns-russia-over-ukraine/a-60181833

  312. @AP
    @Aedib

    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU, and would not want Ukraine to be engaged in anti-Russian proxy wars as Cuba was.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail, @Aedib

    …Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU

    It is not about what any side wants, it is about what they will accept. Russia doesn’t care about Ukraine in EU, it is the EU that doesn’t want to accept Ukraine. I think Russia simply pointed out that Kiev has to choose: either open markets with EU, or with Russia. Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU’s unlimited access to Russia’s markets through Ukraine.

    It is the fact that the post-Maidan Kiev refuses to make a choice, and EU refuses to accept Ukraine anyway, that has created this crisis.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    It is the fact that the post-Maidan Kiev refuses to make a choice, and EU refuses to accept Ukraine anyway, that has created this crisi
     
    Ukraine has accepted the Associate Agreement and integration with the West rather than with Russia. Russia is trying to force an autonomous pro-Russian Donbas with veto power over Ukrainian policy into Ukraine.
    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU’s unlimited access to Russia’s markets through Ukraine.
     
    It would also mean Russia's access to European markets through Ukraine too, including smaller entrance taxes too. It's a win-win for everybody. How many Russian companies still produce products in Ukraine? How many Roshen's are within Ukraine? I wonder?.....

    Replies: @Beckow

  313. @A123
    @Mr. Hack

    Did that T-shirt have the dog's face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.

    What makes me most suspicious is the "human head". Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog's tail.

    The more I look at it, the more I am convinced it is a dog very close to camera with a wide angle or other unusual lens. The front leg is distorted by the lens choice.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Did that T-shirt have the dog’s face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.

    It did not, however, it’s quite large and it would be little effort to just wear it backwards (there are even larger sizes too).

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.

    Perhaps, and I see your point. I’m starting to see more credence for the dog image now…

    What makes me most suspicious is the “human head”. Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog’s tail.

    I’m not able to do a super zoom on the protruding back piece. I can still envision a guy’s head with a dover style hat on top…if it’s a piece of shrubbery, it’s foundation seems out of place, inside the pathway being used. Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It’s definitely a cleverly made deception, as we’re still discussing its meaning. 🙂

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    It did not, however, it’s quite large and it would be little effort to just wear it backwards (there are even larger sizes too).
     
    Deliberate staging by someone with Ansel Adams's skill set? Possible, I guess, but tricky. Trampling back and forth through snow is not easily "reset" for additional "takes" so it would take crafty planning & execution.

    I’m not able to do a super zoom on the protruding back piece. I can still envision a guy’s head with a dover style hat on top…if it’s a piece of shrubbery, it’s foundation seems out of place
     
    The angle of the shrub foundation (or human neck) is difficult. Look at the hat for the light color streaks into the head region. Its a person with a tiny head if it is a Dover hat.

    Fluffy dog tail is in my eyes the easiest explanation.

    Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It’s definitely a cleverly made deception, as we’re still discussing its meaning.
     
    Alas, I do not have any source material on the image.

    As you have experience with reverse image search you could try that. If the photo has been intentionally brought down in resolution (like a certain piece of Rittenhouse drone footage) to create ambiguity, perhaps you can find an unaltered original.

    PEACE 😇
    , @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It’s definitely a cleverly made deception, as we’re still discussing its meaning. 🙂
     
    One of my family members brought up the "man or dog" optical illusion meme. (1)

    The subject of the picture is actually a black poodle dog running towards the camera through the snow.

    The picture surprised many for its strange illusion and it has since gone viral as more and more people on social media started talking about it and sharing it further. Netizens are discussing the flaw in their perception and how the picture is tricking them into seeing something else. It is only after a couple of viewing that they agree that it was actually a black dog and not a man.
     
    The picture with the article is higher quality and looks more crisply "doggish(?)" than the grainy meme I originally shared.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://www.dnaindia.com/viral/report-viral-is-it-a-man-or-is-it-a-dog-optical-illusion-intrigues-netizens-2873278

     
    https://cdn.dnaindia.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2021/02/05/955486-optical-illusion.jpg
  314. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU
     
    It is not about what any side wants, it is about what they will accept. Russia doesn't care about Ukraine in EU, it is the EU that doesn't want to accept Ukraine. I think Russia simply pointed out that Kiev has to choose: either open markets with EU, or with Russia. Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU's unlimited access to Russia's markets through Ukraine.

    It is the fact that the post-Maidan Kiev refuses to make a choice, and EU refuses to accept Ukraine anyway, that has created this crisis.

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. Hack

    It is the fact that the post-Maidan Kiev refuses to make a choice, and EU refuses to accept Ukraine anyway, that has created this crisi

    Ukraine has accepted the Associate Agreement and integration with the West rather than with Russia. Russia is trying to force an autonomous pro-Russian Donbas with veto power over Ukrainian policy into Ukraine.

  315. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Probably some good advice. The deemphasis of eating meat products by the Adventists is quite the contrary of what our once active participant here Thorfinnsson had strongly advocated. He thought that meat would provide him with many of the nutrients derived often from plant like foods. The clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries where people lived extremely long lives. Most of the people there do include chicken, eggs, milk and cheese into their diets. A friend of mine whose father lived the last 10 - 15 years in Costa Rica lived to be 106. He would enjoy an occasional glass of wine and a cigar, but most importantly had a strong adherence to Orthodoxy (he was of Greek in origin).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    Yes I’ve been watching some documentaries about this topic as well. A general pattern of the regions with unusually high life expectancy, seems to include a diet which is involving natural foods, without much meat per day.

    So, traditional diets in Okinawa or Sardinia, are based in mainly eating vegetables, intact grains, beans. Basically, eating like traditional peasants.

    In these regions, old people are also active, sometimes still farming for their food. Unfortunately, among the younger generation, the traditional diet is being displaced in Okinawa, with a strong influence of American fast food.

    With a Russian historical diet, traditional old things like kasha, shchi, borscht, okroshka, etc, are probably very healthy. But the more 20th century processed products, likely will not be healthy.

    clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries

    In the national level, the life expectancy in Costa Rica is higher than the USA.

    However, those clips are focusing on specific regions within the country.

    Okinawa has a higher life expectancy than Japan (which already has a very high life expectancy). But it might be difficult to control the variables, as Okinawa also has a different climate than mainland Japan.

    I feel there is something politically “easy” in emphasis of diet for public health, as it will allow the authorities to blame individuals’ choices. When in many example the cause of falling life expectancy is the pollution caused by industry and transport, low investment in healthcare and a poor management of disease epidemics.

    Life expectancy in Russia since 2020/2021/2022 will be below Bangladesh again, not because of e.g. individuals choosing to eat processed meat, but mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic from the government level. However the more politically easy will be to talk about diet and individual choices.

    Life expectancy is flat in the USA, perhaps partly because of the inequality in the healthcare access, not only the diet choices of the public. But, it is politically more acceptable to talk about the poor diet choices of the individual in America.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    More natural foods (less processed food) and less stress seem to be the leading causes of a long life. Also, most of the areas that include this grouping of long life individuals includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith associations. Something to pay attention to, and to incorporate into most anybody's lifestyle.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  316. @Aedib
    @Mikhail

    A Confederation between Russia and Ukraine is no longer feasible after Maidan because Russophobia is the core of the Maidan ideology. But a Confederation between Belarus, Russia and the Donbass may be feasible.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

    A Confederation between Russia and Ukraine is no longer feasible after Maidan because Russophobia is the core of the Maidan ideology

    It wouldn’t have been feasible on the territory of today’s Ukraine even before Maidan – the population of those territories have voted for pro-Western parties seeking to move away from Russia since the 1990s. If Ukraine did not have Crimea and Donbas, Kravchuk would have beaten Kuchma in 1994, and Ukraine would have followed the Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. into the EU and probably NATO.

    After Maidan, Putin very helpfully (and against many Ukrainians’ bad judgment) removed pro-Russian territories such that regardless of Maidan ideology Ukraine would not want confederation with Russia.

    With Crimea gone, even if Donbas were to return Ukraine would still have a comfortable pro-Western majority (though the pro-Russians would now be 40% or so of the population and would able to disrupt things). To get around that, Putin would want to give it special autonomy such as the ability to for its own economic treaties – ie., customs union with Russia – which would scuttle Ukraine’s integration with the EU.

  317. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes I've been watching some documentaries about this topic as well. A general pattern of the regions with unusually high life expectancy, seems to include a diet which is involving natural foods, without much meat per day.

    So, traditional diets in Okinawa or Sardinia, are based in mainly eating vegetables, intact grains, beans. Basically, eating like traditional peasants.

    In these regions, old people are also active, sometimes still farming for their food. Unfortunately, among the younger generation, the traditional diet is being displaced in Okinawa, with a strong influence of American fast food.

    With a Russian historical diet, traditional old things like kasha, shchi, borscht, okroshka, etc, are probably very healthy. But the more 20th century processed products, likely will not be healthy.


    clip also mentions Costa Rica (Nicoya Peninsula) as one of five countries

     

    In the national level, the life expectancy in Costa Rica is higher than the USA.

    However, those clips are focusing on specific regions within the country.

    Okinawa has a higher life expectancy than Japan (which already has a very high life expectancy). But it might be difficult to control the variables, as Okinawa also has a different climate than mainland Japan.

    https://i.imgur.com/k5GYQ5p.jpg
    I feel there is something politically "easy" in emphasis of diet for public health, as it will allow the authorities to blame individuals' choices. When in many example the cause of falling life expectancy is the pollution caused by industry and transport, low investment in healthcare and a poor management of disease epidemics.

    Life expectancy in Russia since 2020/2021/2022 will be below Bangladesh again, not because of e.g. individuals choosing to eat processed meat, but mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic from the government level. However the more politically easy will be to talk about diet and individual choices.

    Life expectancy is flat in the USA, perhaps partly because of the inequality in the healthcare access, not only the diet choices of the public. But, it is politically more acceptable to talk about the poor diet choices of the individual in America.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    More natural foods (less processed food) and less stress seem to be the leading causes of a long life. Also, most of the areas that include this grouping of long life individuals includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith associations. Something to pay attention to, and to incorporate into most anybody’s lifestyle.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith
     
    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities.

    Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine, as their diet sounds healthy (often to grow their food organically in the garden).

    Mormon life expectancy is higher than USA average (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/mormonism-good-for-the-body-as-well-as-the-soul/2012/06/20/gJQARk3IqV_blog.html).

    In Israel, Haredim have the highest life expectancy. In Modiin it is 87,6 ( https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-new-report-shows-significant-discrepancy-in-life-expectancy-between-israeli-cities-1.8224439 )

    This is even though, they live with the highest poverty rate, supposedly have an unhealthy diet, high rates of diabetes and the highest tobacco use of any group.

    This is a kind of paradox, but according to Wikipedia: "In a study by Nitza Kasir and Dmitry Romanov, these data are also explained by the fact that the ultra-Orthodox are employed at a lower rate than the general population in blue-collar occupations such as construction and agriculture, thus being less exposed to occupational disease. Another factor that they say may affect the high life expectancy in the sector is lower exposure to other risk factors, such as military service, cigarette smoking and drug and alcohol consumption."


    More natural foods (less processed food) and less

     

    It might also be a lower daily meat consumption, higher fruit and vegetable consumption and less of processed food.

    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.

    There's also a possibility of selection for a stronger population during famines in WW2 (although such pressures are in many other countries, like the postsoviet space, which have low life expectancy).

    There was a news report about the life expectancy in Okinawa.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QXS5e8j-XE

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

  318. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU
     
    It is not about what any side wants, it is about what they will accept. Russia doesn't care about Ukraine in EU, it is the EU that doesn't want to accept Ukraine. I think Russia simply pointed out that Kiev has to choose: either open markets with EU, or with Russia. Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU's unlimited access to Russia's markets through Ukraine.

    It is the fact that the post-Maidan Kiev refuses to make a choice, and EU refuses to accept Ukraine anyway, that has created this crisis.

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. Hack

    Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU’s unlimited access to Russia’s markets through Ukraine.

    It would also mean Russia’s access to European markets through Ukraine too, including smaller entrance taxes too. It’s a win-win for everybody. How many Russian companies still produce products in Ukraine? How many Roshen’s are within Ukraine? I wonder?…..

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...also mean Russia’s access to European markets through Ukraine
     
    Russia exports mostly energy, grain, minerals, weapons, fertilizers, aluminium. EU buys them because they have no choice, so opening up markets for Russia in EU is meaningless. (except weapons, but here Nato sets standards, so again meaningless.)

    EU sells to Russia products that can be bought elsewhere (China, Korea, India, Japan...) or that compete with domestic Russian production - so opening up the Russian markets via Ukraine would be hugely beneficial for EU.

    So, no, this is not a win-win, it would be a one-sided deal. That is the core issue since 2013 - for some reason you and EU pretend that you don't get it, why? It is a very simple situation, people lie to obfuscate a simple reality.

  319. @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack

    Not exactly. I did evolve to some cosmopolitanism and even sympathy for Spain when my countrymen were practicing terrorism but when that stopped, which was approximately at the time when Spain proved to be a irredeemable member of the PIGS group during the Great Recession, I returned to my Basque roots.

    Now, however, my focus is entirely on the beautiful paradise where I live in the Rocky Mountains. My younger son only speaks English and I won't try to instill in him any allegiance to a foreign country.

    The Basque cause is long lost anyway. We are too small and Spain and France flooded our territories with their own people so a majority of the inhabitants in the Basque Country now are not ethnic Basques. When german_reader expresses fears that he will once live in a country where his ethnic group will be a minority, it reminds me of the situation in my old country.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Agathoklis

    “My younger son only speaks English”

    Truly sad.

  320. @AP
    @Aedib

    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU, and would not want Ukraine to be engaged in anti-Russian proxy wars as Cuba was.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail, @Aedib

    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU,

    Even more so, the US and EU political establishments don’t want Ukraine in the Russian involved customs union. At the same time, the EU isn’t so willing to take in Ukraine as a full fledged member.

    Russia is more concerned about Ukraine joining NATO at some point.

  321. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Sara Bartman on the 100$ instead of Ben Franklin!

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7B5C/production/_87508513_spl.jpg

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Underscores Sir Mix A Lot:

  322. @AP
    @Aedib

    Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be part of the EU, and would not want Ukraine to be engaged in anti-Russian proxy wars as Cuba was.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikhail, @Aedib

    But the current Kiev’s regime love to perform anti-Russian activities and would love to behave as a proxy. Russian security forces have arrested several times Ukrainians terrorist wannabe (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717). I don´t know if the official Ukrainian policy is to inject terrorists in Russia (it could backfire badly) but these “mavericks” are the product of the Maidan ideology.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Aedib

    There were Ukrainian volunteers killing Russians in Chechnya long before Maidan.

    Here is what a Ukrainian "Cuba" would look like:

    - no NATO missiles in Ukraine
    - economic integration between West and Ukraine
    - mass arrests and executions of remaining pro-Russians within Ukraine (what Cuba did with anti-commies) with no interference from Russia
    - Ukraine exporting troops and weapons to any conflict Russia is involved in (I.e., Cubans in Angola, Venezuela, etc.) with no Russian military countermeasures

    Somehow I do not think Russia would want a Cuban scenario.

    , @LatW
    @Aedib

    Speaking of "injecting"... right now who is projecting into who's territory? On whose territory is the war raging? For 7 years. Whose children are dying on their native soil? You will argue that Ukraine is projecting into Donbas, but the truth is that the war is on Ukraine's soil. While Russia has declared that war will never be fought on its soil. That's the crux of the problem. These are major double standards. When it comes to smaller nations like Georgians and Chechens you can dictate from the position of strength. But at some point there become too many of us. Until this is resolved there will be strife. As long as you believe your territory is sacred (and I don't blame you for thinking that) while others' territory isn't and is just a patch of soil up for grabs. And that some Russian nationalists believe that ERefia is not a real country but only the historic Russia is the real Russia... everyone's security needs need to be met.

    As to revenge, one does not even need to go into Russia. Hypothetically, every Russian on European soil could turn into a walking target. The idea at this point is still pretty repulsive so please let's not go there.

    And speaking of yesterday's ultimatum, if somebody in the West were intent on hearing it at all, would Russia in turn be open to making certain steps? To return to the situation of 2007? To demilitarise Kenig, stop the activity around Svalbard/Spitzbergen, stop training with the Chinese near European borders? Or is it that only one side has wishes, requests and ultimatums as to their security guarantees?

    Replies: @Aedib

  323. @Mikhail
    @Aedib

    For the immediate future a yes to your point. Wouldn't completely rule out for the longer term. Consider how some one time realities were thought as likely unchangeable.

    Replies: @Aedib

    I think, it is also no longer feasible in the long term. The Russophobe pro-Western indoctrination has successfully worked here. Another thing is how the Maidan project (i.e. a big rabid Russophobe “Cuba” next to Russia) will end. I think Huntington’s view is the likeliest one. Places like Ukraine, Nepal, Punjab + Kashmir, the US-Mexican cultural border (which is moving inside the USA from the south) are unstable fracture lines separating civilizational blocks.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Aedib


    I think, it is also no longer feasible in the long term. The Russophobe pro-Western indoctrination has successfully worked here. Another thing is how the Maidan project (i.e. a big rabid Russophobe “Cuba” next to Russia) will end. I think Huntington’s view is the likeliest one. Places like Ukraine, Nepal, Punjab + Kashmir, the US-Mexican cultural border (which is moving inside the USA from the south) are unstable fracture lines separating civilizational blocks.
     
    Much of that indoctrination is misguided, in conjunction with the West not likely to give Ukraine NATO and/or EU membership. The former Habsburg part of Ukraine wasn't always so anti-Russian. Changes have occurred in the past. No reason to rule out for the future.
  324. Gas price down as Russia increase supply

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/Europes-Gas-Prices-Plunge-As-Russia-Signals-More-Supply-Is-Coming.html

    PD: The “pipeline” was not defined in the article. It is the Ukrainian one or the “Belarussian one?

  325. @Aedib
    @AP

    But the current Kiev’s regime love to perform anti-Russian activities and would love to behave as a proxy. Russian security forces have arrested several times Ukrainians terrorist wannabe (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717). I don´t know if the official Ukrainian policy is to inject terrorists in Russia (it could backfire badly) but these "mavericks" are the product of the Maidan ideology.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

    There were Ukrainian volunteers killing Russians in Chechnya long before Maidan.

    Here is what a Ukrainian “Cuba” would look like:

    – no NATO missiles in Ukraine
    – economic integration between West and Ukraine
    – mass arrests and executions of remaining pro-Russians within Ukraine (what Cuba did with anti-commies) with no interference from Russia
    – Ukraine exporting troops and weapons to any conflict Russia is involved in (I.e., Cubans in Angola, Venezuela, etc.) with no Russian military countermeasures

    Somehow I do not think Russia would want a Cuban scenario.

  326. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    More natural foods (less processed food) and less stress seem to be the leading causes of a long life. Also, most of the areas that include this grouping of long life individuals includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith associations. Something to pay attention to, and to incorporate into most anybody's lifestyle.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith

    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities.

    Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine, as their diet sounds healthy (often to grow their food organically in the garden).

    Mormon life expectancy is higher than USA average (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/mormonism-good-for-the-body-as-well-as-the-soul/2012/06/20/gJQARk3IqV_blog.html).

    In Israel, Haredim have the highest life expectancy. In Modiin it is 87,6 ( https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-new-report-shows-significant-discrepancy-in-life-expectancy-between-israeli-cities-1.8224439 )

    This is even though, they live with the highest poverty rate, supposedly have an unhealthy diet, high rates of diabetes and the highest tobacco use of any group.

    This is a kind of paradox, but according to Wikipedia: “In a study by Nitza Kasir and Dmitry Romanov, these data are also explained by the fact that the ultra-Orthodox are employed at a lower rate than the general population in blue-collar occupations such as construction and agriculture, thus being less exposed to occupational disease. Another factor that they say may affect the high life expectancy in the sector is lower exposure to other risk factors, such as military service, cigarette smoking and drug and alcohol consumption.”

    More natural foods (less processed food) and less

    It might also be a lower daily meat consumption, higher fruit and vegetable consumption and less of processed food.

    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.

    There’s also a possibility of selection for a stronger population during famines in WW2 (although such pressures are in many other countries, like the postsoviet space, which have low life expectancy).

    There was a news report about the life expectancy in Okinawa.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Dmitry


    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.
     
    Okinawans are the shortest Japanese - that is why they live the longest, among Asians (believe it is the women who are the oldest women in the world)

    Sardinians are the shortest Europeans - that is why they live the longest, among Europeans. (believe it is the men who are the oldest men in the world) Though possibly there might be a small Greek island that does better.

    Something similar can be seen in dogs. Larger dogs do not live as long as the smaller ones.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    I've watched he video clip with interest and it seemed to emphasize what has already been said about other areas that include long lifers: more natural, unprocessed foods, mineral water, less stress and living within a community of similar people with similar social traits.

    Did you also know that throughout the whole Japanese population, people die less often from heart disease than in the West? Researchers seem to have pinpointed this important difference in the dietary inclusion of natto into the Japanese diet. Natto is a fermented food made from soybeans. It's chock full of many varied probiotics, so it's great for your gut and digestion system, but even more important its the single greatest repository of Vitamin K2M7. This specific vitamin is uniquely responsible in breaking down nasty calcium deposits within the body's blood veins and arteries and redirecting them to bones and teeth where they're necessary. Truly a "superfood" if you consider that calcium plaque build up is one of the major sources of heart attacks and strokes. It is an "acquired taste" that I've been able to manage by perfecting some great tasting dishes. I've become kind of a connoisseur of different soy and teriyaki sauces and love the "umami" flavors that I've discovered. There have actually been a lot of scientific studies already conducted that verify the strong claims about natto. Here's one of the better websites that I would recommend if you're interested in finding out more: https://www.nyrture.com/blog/natto-and-vitamin-k2

    , @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry


    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities. Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine
     
    I was curious about this so I looked it up. The average American stands at 78 years old while the average Amish is at 72. However, data seems to indicate that Amish have better average health in old age, which is not entirely surprising given their active lives.

    It's not really true that Amish reject modern medicine. They will certainly go to the local hospital to have surgeries or other procedures. They do reject massive end of life interventions however, which may account for some of that life expectancy differential. We spend a lot of time keeping terminal people pasted together, so some of those gained years are not exactly very high in terms of quality.

    The other aspect that may drive Amish life expectancy down would be accidents, since Amish are not at all risk averse. I've seen barefoot 10 year olds with chainsaws, or running a team of horses. The community is of paramount importance to them, not the survival of the individual, so they take risks and get things done. That's not necessarily a criticism since I get along with them just fine, having a somewhat similar outlook.



    My youngest (almost 2) may be not far off from the 10 year old with the chainsaw soon enough. I was upstairs tonight working in our addition project moving some flooring and as soon as he saw what I was up to he jumped in and started picking up these 8' and 10' strips of hardwood flooring to pass to me, making little manly grunts. Too cute! Once I started running the shop-vac he grabbed a broom and started pushing it around. I've noticed it with the others too, but kids really love to help and be included in adult business. It's too bad that gets squelched so often by confining them to "kid stuff".

    Replies: @Dmitry

  327. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith
     
    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities.

    Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine, as their diet sounds healthy (often to grow their food organically in the garden).

    Mormon life expectancy is higher than USA average (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/mormonism-good-for-the-body-as-well-as-the-soul/2012/06/20/gJQARk3IqV_blog.html).

    In Israel, Haredim have the highest life expectancy. In Modiin it is 87,6 ( https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-new-report-shows-significant-discrepancy-in-life-expectancy-between-israeli-cities-1.8224439 )

    This is even though, they live with the highest poverty rate, supposedly have an unhealthy diet, high rates of diabetes and the highest tobacco use of any group.

    This is a kind of paradox, but according to Wikipedia: "In a study by Nitza Kasir and Dmitry Romanov, these data are also explained by the fact that the ultra-Orthodox are employed at a lower rate than the general population in blue-collar occupations such as construction and agriculture, thus being less exposed to occupational disease. Another factor that they say may affect the high life expectancy in the sector is lower exposure to other risk factors, such as military service, cigarette smoking and drug and alcohol consumption."


    More natural foods (less processed food) and less

     

    It might also be a lower daily meat consumption, higher fruit and vegetable consumption and less of processed food.

    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.

    There's also a possibility of selection for a stronger population during famines in WW2 (although such pressures are in many other countries, like the postsoviet space, which have low life expectancy).

    There was a news report about the life expectancy in Okinawa.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QXS5e8j-XE

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.

    Okinawans are the shortest Japanese – that is why they live the longest, among Asians (believe it is the women who are the oldest women in the world)

    Sardinians are the shortest Europeans – that is why they live the longest, among Europeans. (believe it is the men who are the oldest men in the world) Though possibly there might be a small Greek island that does better.

    Something similar can be seen in dogs. Larger dogs do not live as long as the smaller ones.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @songbird

    For most of the 20th century, Sardinia and Okinawa are very poor areas.

    I don't think a 2% difference of average height from mainland would explain their higher life expectancy (it's not like dogs which can be 300% larger than another dog).

    What's likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.

    Okinawa and Sardinia have traditional peasant diets, where they eat less protein eating during childhood (including famines in Okinawa in 1920s and 1940s).

    When Americans (Seventh Day Adventists) for religious reasons recreate a similar diet, they have similar high life expectancies.

    -


    I think Seventh Day Adventists interpret Genesis 9:3-4 as a kind of temporary clause.

    Because before the flood man is only allowed to eat plants.

    That's why in the beginning of Genesis, God says man can only eat seed carrying plants and trees with fruit.

    https://i.imgur.com/7N0aQWG.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29-30&version=NIV

    After the flood destroyed all the plants, then God says that man can eat meat, as a kind of concession in the contract for Noah's covenant.

    So, eating meat is allowed by God, although only as a result of God's concession in post-flood covenant with Noah.
    https://i.imgur.com/Rsy0Ied.jpg


    Seventh Day Adventists must view this post-flood contract with Noah as not something currently active. The fact they benefit with the higher life expectancy is more like a side effect of a religious interpretation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

  328. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith
     
    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities.

    Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine, as their diet sounds healthy (often to grow their food organically in the garden).

    Mormon life expectancy is higher than USA average (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/mormonism-good-for-the-body-as-well-as-the-soul/2012/06/20/gJQARk3IqV_blog.html).

    In Israel, Haredim have the highest life expectancy. In Modiin it is 87,6 ( https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-new-report-shows-significant-discrepancy-in-life-expectancy-between-israeli-cities-1.8224439 )

    This is even though, they live with the highest poverty rate, supposedly have an unhealthy diet, high rates of diabetes and the highest tobacco use of any group.

    This is a kind of paradox, but according to Wikipedia: "In a study by Nitza Kasir and Dmitry Romanov, these data are also explained by the fact that the ultra-Orthodox are employed at a lower rate than the general population in blue-collar occupations such as construction and agriculture, thus being less exposed to occupational disease. Another factor that they say may affect the high life expectancy in the sector is lower exposure to other risk factors, such as military service, cigarette smoking and drug and alcohol consumption."


    More natural foods (less processed food) and less

     

    It might also be a lower daily meat consumption, higher fruit and vegetable consumption and less of processed food.

    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.

    There's also a possibility of selection for a stronger population during famines in WW2 (although such pressures are in many other countries, like the postsoviet space, which have low life expectancy).

    There was a news report about the life expectancy in Okinawa.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QXS5e8j-XE

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    I’ve watched he video clip with interest and it seemed to emphasize what has already been said about other areas that include long lifers: more natural, unprocessed foods, mineral water, less stress and living within a community of similar people with similar social traits.

    Did you also know that throughout the whole Japanese population, people die less often from heart disease than in the West? Researchers seem to have pinpointed this important difference in the dietary inclusion of natto into the Japanese diet. Natto is a fermented food made from soybeans. It’s chock full of many varied probiotics, so it’s great for your gut and digestion system, but even more important its the single greatest repository of Vitamin K2M7. This specific vitamin is uniquely responsible in breaking down nasty calcium deposits within the body’s blood veins and arteries and redirecting them to bones and teeth where they’re necessary. Truly a “superfood” if you consider that calcium plaque build up is one of the major sources of heart attacks and strokes. It is an “acquired taste” that I’ve been able to manage by perfecting some great tasting dishes. I’ve become kind of a connoisseur of different soy and teriyaki sauces and love the “umami” flavors that I’ve discovered. There have actually been a lot of scientific studies already conducted that verify the strong claims about natto. Here’s one of the better websites that I would recommend if you’re interested in finding out more: https://www.nyrture.com/blog/natto-and-vitamin-k2

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
  329. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    feeling of charity (the Christian Caritas)
     
    Ireland is such a strong example to me, that in the culture, people can really seem trained to be socially intelligent, talkative and responsive.

    Because there is really a lot of cultural divergence in this area. If you compare London and Dublin, and in Dublin there is immediate culture shock that the people have some kind of higher responsiveness or engagement level setting on.

    Do you think more extraverted, social people, people are actually nicer though? My intuition is the other way round.

    If you can give an appearance of being nice, then it means less pressure to actually be nice. It doesn't cost anything to seem nice. If you can be charming with the teacher, you don't need to do as much homework.

    Not that I tested. But if you were homeless in Dublin, I'm not sure you should bet people on average would really help you more than in London. But you should bet that in Dublin, most people will seem more like they want to help you.


    tyranny did not develop this light heartedness.
     
    And in Finland, the opposite.

    Maybe Catholicism, rather than occupation, has made people more charming in Ireland? Catholics have some of the friendliest nationalities, like Philippines, Brazilian and Mexican.

    But then... in France or Austria, or a lot of Germany, there is a lot of Catholic history, and not so much superficial charm to strangers. I guess with this cultural discussion, usually there seem as many counter-examples than correlations.

    Replies: @LatW

    If you compare London and Dublin, and in Dublin there is an immediate culture shock that the people have some kind of higher responsiveness

    There is, of course, more of a big city or almost imperial vibe in London as opposed to Dublin. But even in London people are outwardly nicer than in Eastern Europe. The British are typically very polite and outwardly friendly but then they go about their lives and are quite individualistic. Which is ok once you’re accultured to it and act accordingly. Whereas the Irish are just altogether warmer, at least in Dublin. Maybe in Western Ireland they’re a bit more colder? There is a very rugged sea faring culture on that side.

    [MORE]

    Do you think extroverted, social people are actually nicer though?

    I’ve recently started believing that, yes. After Covid. Maybe the more extroverted cultures, when problems hit, tend to solve them on a more private level whereas the more colder cultures tend to refer to institutions? Which in this day and age… if you ask me, the first option might actually be better. But who knows.

    When I was about your age and younger, extroverts used to annoy the heck out of me. I can totally see how you enjoy solitude. Now I appreciate them more. I have a Latin acquaintance who really likes helping me out, without being asked, and who started calling me “a friend” after, like, 3 months of communicating and she was always the one who sought out the friendship first. And it turned out that she was more charitable than all the introverts. But this is ofc subjective. At some point our connection started really showing (I’m half Latgalian/culturally Catholic despite everything). And sometimes it can go even deeper with romantic relationships and can actually determine who is born and who connects with who. Although I still need a lot of alone time and typically do not long to chit chat with strangers like the extroverts do. In my culture we don’t show emotions either, but I actually find it more human that Slavic women, for instance, show more emotions.

    Btw, in this context I was thinking recently of Max Korzh whom we talked about in the other thread. He’s all about that somewhat collectivist culture of many patsans together and everyone huddling together. Back in the day it would’ve seemed kind of off-putting to me but now that I can view it from a distance it’s actually quite sweet. You always have someone to rely on, like a family. It would probably be too tight for me but I definitely see the benefits. It also makes it obvious how and why the Slavic expansion happened.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    in London people are outwardly nicer than in Eastern Europe. The British are typically very polite and outwardly friendly

     

    Yes I feel English culture are somewhere in a median. But in England, if you want to ask for help, I feel like a 70% chance they will be friendly and polite, 30% chance they will be unfriendly.

    Whereas in Ireland, you have can some confidence like 90% will be friendly.


    more extroverted cultures, when problems hit, tend to solve them on a more private level whereas the more colder cultures tend to refer to institutions

     

    These friendly, extraverted nationalities like Irish, Mexicans, Philipinos, Spanish, Italians, Brazilians - often correlates to quite difficult or dysfunctional politics though.

    Mexico, Colombia and Philippines might have some of the world's nicest people, but then the countries themselves are some of the most dangerous in the world.

    So I agree with you they are more pleasant cultures, in an individual level. But the societal level will not necessarily be so gentle.

    Most politically dysfunctional countries actually have more friendly people. Africa and Latin America, should be paradises, if you judged from how friendly the people are.

    And then compare some more unfriendly nationalities like Swedish, Finns, Danes. But there they have some of the world's more civilized politics, with the least friendly population. Even Estonians probably have the most successful postsoviet politics.

    I guess there are some exceptions of introverted countries with dysfunctional politics (Russia, Belarus, North Korea), and maybe even we can find some rare example of extroverted countries with functional politics (Australia?)


    Max Korzh whom we talked about in the other thread. He’s all about that somewhat collectivist
     
    Yes I can't think of things I like less like either when young, or now old (crush of too many people, bad rap songs).

    But on the political level he needs a peace prize from the UN. Yuri Dud said something also.


    https://www.instagram.com/p/B0DYRNolgHy/

    Replies: @utu

  330. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Obviously you cannot have both, because that would mean EU’s unlimited access to Russia’s markets through Ukraine.
     
    It would also mean Russia's access to European markets through Ukraine too, including smaller entrance taxes too. It's a win-win for everybody. How many Russian companies still produce products in Ukraine? How many Roshen's are within Ukraine? I wonder?.....

    Replies: @Beckow

    …also mean Russia’s access to European markets through Ukraine

    Russia exports mostly energy, grain, minerals, weapons, fertilizers, aluminium. EU buys them because they have no choice, so opening up markets for Russia in EU is meaningless. (except weapons, but here Nato sets standards, so again meaningless.)

    EU sells to Russia products that can be bought elsewhere (China, Korea, India, Japan…) or that compete with domestic Russian production – so opening up the Russian markets via Ukraine would be hugely beneficial for EU.

    So, no, this is not a win-win, it would be a one-sided deal. That is the core issue since 2013 – for some reason you and EU pretend that you don’t get it, why? It is a very simple situation, people lie to obfuscate a simple reality.

  331. While I should be much more concerned about the war that’s probably going to happen. (Honestly Im not even sure what to do, ZOGUSA doesnt care so the only realistic approach to get Russians to stop what they’re doing is to issue ID cards to all Russians…but of course we are a “liberal democracy” so we dont do that.
    And then take them hostage and threaten something like Woyln except on a national scale, a Chechnya but 30x times bigger. Kind of like Hitler did but with European Jews, and if anything happens we start tightening the screws.
    The problems that arise include the fact that Russia does not care about its people, and the fact that of course in the end that kind of backfires and Hitler’s regime completely destroyed Germany , but that wasn’t the original intention. I don’t want this and I am sure Russians don’t want this but self preservation is kicking in.

    Really, i didnt talk about this much but the typical commie solution to all (yes I bolded it here because I cant emphasize this enough how it was) USSR problems during the 1920s up to 1940s period was to always shoot more Soviet citizens, if things get heated up we dont need to invent the wheel, a lot of Stalinist approaches worked quite well if you are looking at a perspective where his goals things got accomplished, we should adopt that approach, only replace soviet citizens with Russians. The problem is Russians have nukes and we dont but Algerians got rid of the French Pied Noirs and French had nukes too and did nothing…

    Also I should once again be more concerned about the war but what does German_Reader think about the Greens being in power?

    https://twitter.com/pegobry/status/1471840832768598021

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Svidomyatheart


    Also I should once again be more concerned about the war but what does German_Reader think about the Greens being in power?
     
    The thing about Germany being a Einwanderungsland isn't really new, the German left has been pushing this line for as long as I can remember, that is for at least 30 years. And yeah, of course for them it has always been primarily about dismantling any sense of Germany as an ethnocultural nation (supposedly an anomaly among Western democracies, another legacy of Germany's evil Sonderweg), and the more alien the immigrants, the better.
    What's changed since the 1990s, is that back then there was still some resistance, even in the early 2000s CDU/CSU in their party programme still emphatically stated that Germany wasn't a Einwanderungsland and that they were against mass immigration (and it has to be admitted, during the first asylum crisis in the early 1990s CDU actually took some steps to restrict the right to asylum, though the hard left always agitated against the compromise that was adopted, ultimately with success). Well, obviously that changed totally under Merkel. I think the hegemony of anti-national/pro-immigration ideas is pretty much complete by now, and the Left now feels they can implement anything they want, and go for the final kill, increasing both immigration and repression against dissent to unprecedented levels. They'll also increase funding for "antiracist" NGOs even more, obviously "civil society" needs to be supported, because far right extremism is the biggest threat to democracy after all, so all those activists with their bs degrees in political science and sociology will profit handsomely. This is also merely the culmination of trends that began back in the 1990s. They're unlikely to be reversed, so this is going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take.

    Replies: @Beckow

  332. @Aedib
    @AP

    But the current Kiev’s regime love to perform anti-Russian activities and would love to behave as a proxy. Russian security forces have arrested several times Ukrainians terrorist wannabe (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717). I don´t know if the official Ukrainian policy is to inject terrorists in Russia (it could backfire badly) but these "mavericks" are the product of the Maidan ideology.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

    Speaking of “injecting”… right now who is projecting into who’s territory? On whose territory is the war raging? For 7 years. Whose children are dying on their native soil? You will argue that Ukraine is projecting into Donbas, but the truth is that the war is on Ukraine’s soil. While Russia has declared that war will never be fought on its soil. That’s the crux of the problem. These are major double standards. When it comes to smaller nations like Georgians and Chechens you can dictate from the position of strength. But at some point there become too many of us. Until this is resolved there will be strife. As long as you believe your territory is sacred (and I don’t blame you for thinking that) while others’ territory isn’t and is just a patch of soil up for grabs. And that some Russian nationalists believe that ERefia is not a real country but only the historic Russia is the real Russia… everyone’s security needs need to be met.

    As to revenge, one does not even need to go into Russia. Hypothetically, every Russian on European soil could turn into a walking target. The idea at this point is still pretty repulsive so please let’s not go there.

    And speaking of yesterday’s ultimatum, if somebody in the West were intent on hearing it at all, would Russia in turn be open to making certain steps? To return to the situation of 2007? To demilitarise Kenig, stop the activity around Svalbard/Spitzbergen, stop training with the Chinese near European borders? Or is it that only one side has wishes, requests and ultimatums as to their security guarantees?

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @LatW

    Your points could be valid until you start to justify terrorists wanting to plant bombs on civilian targets. The link ((https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717)) shows the last try but not the only one. There were several Ukrainian terrorist teams arrested in Crimea which wanted to perform similar activities. And I said that “it could backfire badly” because the other side (Donbass republics + Russia) can perform similar activities but with many more opportunities (given the number of ethnic Russians disseminated into Ukraine). It may happen also in the Baltic countries but then we are walking into a very nasty stage with terrorist campaigns from both sides. I thought that everyone understood the need of avoid such a very dirty steps.
    Anyway, I would not discard anything. I am now remembering the Obama’s regime nurturing the “moderate beheaders” in Syria and the Western propaganda trying to paint them as “democracy fighters”. It would not be the first time these things happens. The USSR did it in the 1970s, The West did it in Chechnya, Libya and Syria in the 2000s-2010s.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

  333. German_reader says:
    @Svidomyatheart
    While I should be much more concerned about the war that's probably going to happen. (Honestly Im not even sure what to do, ZOGUSA doesnt care so the only realistic approach to get Russians to stop what they're doing is to issue ID cards to all Russians...but of course we are a "liberal democracy" so we dont do that.
    And then take them hostage and threaten something like Woyln except on a national scale, a Chechnya but 30x times bigger. Kind of like Hitler did but with European Jews, and if anything happens we start tightening the screws.
    The problems that arise include the fact that Russia does not care about its people, and the fact that of course in the end that kind of backfires and Hitler’s regime completely destroyed Germany , but that wasn’t the original intention. I don't want this and I am sure Russians don't want this but self preservation is kicking in.


    Really, i didnt talk about this much but the typical commie solution to all (yes I bolded it here because I cant emphasize this enough how it was) USSR problems during the 1920s up to 1940s period was to always shoot more Soviet citizens, if things get heated up we dont need to invent the wheel, a lot of Stalinist approaches worked quite well if you are looking at a perspective where his goals things got accomplished, we should adopt that approach, only replace soviet citizens with Russians. The problem is Russians have nukes and we dont but Algerians got rid of the French Pied Noirs and French had nukes too and did nothing...

    Also I should once again be more concerned about the war but what does German_Reader think about the Greens being in power?

    https://twitter.com/pegobry/status/1471840832768598021

    Replies: @German_reader

    Also I should once again be more concerned about the war but what does German_Reader think about the Greens being in power?

    The thing about Germany being a Einwanderungsland isn’t really new, the German left has been pushing this line for as long as I can remember, that is for at least 30 years. And yeah, of course for them it has always been primarily about dismantling any sense of Germany as an ethnocultural nation (supposedly an anomaly among Western democracies, another legacy of Germany’s evil Sonderweg), and the more alien the immigrants, the better.
    What’s changed since the 1990s, is that back then there was still some resistance, even in the early 2000s CDU/CSU in their party programme still emphatically stated that Germany wasn’t a Einwanderungsland and that they were against mass immigration (and it has to be admitted, during the first asylum crisis in the early 1990s CDU actually took some steps to restrict the right to asylum, though the hard left always agitated against the compromise that was adopted, ultimately with success). Well, obviously that changed totally under Merkel. I think the hegemony of anti-national/pro-immigration ideas is pretty much complete by now, and the Left now feels they can implement anything they want, and go for the final kill, increasing both immigration and repression against dissent to unprecedented levels. They’ll also increase funding for “antiracist” NGOs even more, obviously “civil society” needs to be supported, because far right extremism is the biggest threat to democracy after all, so all those activists with their bs degrees in political science and sociology will profit handsomely. This is also merely the culmination of trends that began back in the 1990s. They’re unlikely to be reversed, so this is going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @German_reader

    Have you considered that this could be the bitter end? A high-level summary of German politics 2015-21 first shows Merkel migration, then a few years of ambiguous belly-aching, and finally an electoral victory for parties saying that Merkel welcome policy didn't go far enough. How is one supposed to interpret that?

    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @German_reader

  334. @Yellowface Anon
    I suspect the exact reason why there are a lot of first-person shooter gamers in contact with more toxic online cultures is the lack of actual military drilling from a young age, out of an aversion of massively expanding the reserves or deploying child soldiers, both of them against domestic security sensibilities.

    Likewise with real-time strategy games, we could have enroll those gamers into military academies instead. Is this part of the reason China is clamping down on online gaming?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    One form of gaming where extremely harsh screentime restriction laws (on the level of what China allows for underage gamers) is justified, is VR games and by extension metaverse applications. This is to prevent the obviously awful outcome of the Matrix. I’ll give it 1 hour per weekend day and 0.5 hour per weekday, and ban any and all applications of the metaverse to work. Anything else that can work with VR, has to be seen thru a screen.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    China should ban all games except for those played with the opposite sex. Couch co-op, or at least a LAN.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @German_reader
    @Yellowface Anon

    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Svidomyatheart, @Max Demian

  335. @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    One form of gaming where extremely harsh screentime restriction laws (on the level of what China allows for underage gamers) is justified, is VR games and by extension metaverse applications. This is to prevent the obviously awful outcome of the Matrix. I'll give it 1 hour per weekend day and 0.5 hour per weekday, and ban any and all applications of the metaverse to work. Anything else that can work with VR, has to be seen thru a screen.

    Replies: @songbird, @German_reader

    China should ban all games except for those played with the opposite sex. Couch co-op, or at least a LAN.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    If I were to head an international agency on public health after WHO had gone under because of the COVID agenda, I would institute a global ban on most forms of Americanized pop culture. We need to bankrupt the video game industry, and then seriosuly shrink the comic industry, cartoon/anime industry, and music industry. What China has done with games could be the next Wuhan lockdown, and "democracies" could ostensibly and begrudgingly follow, which they have done in COVID. We could quickly rid ourselves of American imperialist propaganda.

    We could make laws that treat content creators of these media as illegal but non-criminal. The far-right to the LDP in Japan coming to power could grease things up a bit, against decadent, non-bushido youth values. (I hope people knowing Japan well here can weigh in and see whether this is possible)

    The other way of doing it would be set up mandatory youth organizations that take up a considerable portion of the youth's non-school life. The idealized scouts are the perfect antithesis of gamers, comic nerds and weebs.

    Americans might not like it, but Soviet-style music & visual arts, amd a folk culture revival will be excellent replacements for popular entertainment. After all, most direction in pop culture is from an cultural establishment that can be overthrown.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Triteleia Laxa

  336. @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    One form of gaming where extremely harsh screentime restriction laws (on the level of what China allows for underage gamers) is justified, is VR games and by extension metaverse applications. This is to prevent the obviously awful outcome of the Matrix. I'll give it 1 hour per weekend day and 0.5 hour per weekday, and ban any and all applications of the metaverse to work. Anything else that can work with VR, has to be seen thru a screen.

    Replies: @songbird, @German_reader

    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.

    • LOL: Barbarossa, Yevardian
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @German_reader

    The way the West do it (home confinement) is perfect for gamers.

    , @Svidomyatheart
    @German_reader

    Today China has blocked access to Steam Global...its over for gamecels

    , @Max Demian
    @German_reader


    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.
     
    First they came for the gamers...

    Just saw at New York Times:
    A New Generation Stacks Up Championships in an Old Game: Tetris


    The best player in the world over the last two years is a 14-year-old boy from Fort Worth. One of his main challengers? His 16-year-old brother.
     
    https://static01.nyt2sl3njavkomjxqe2e5nz6bsqv56yqbwkvhpmfn5jwh4pyccmjibad.onion/images/2021/12/27/sports/27tetris-brothers1/27tetris-brothers1-jumbo.jpg

    Michael Artiaga, right, the world Tetris champion in 2020 and 2021, with his brother Andy at an arcade in Fort Worth, Texas. [Photo credits:] Justin Clemons/Guardian/eyevine/Redux
     
  337. Why not change election night maps so that the color of parties that support open borders is always black?

  338. @songbird
    @Dmitry


    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.
     
    Okinawans are the shortest Japanese - that is why they live the longest, among Asians (believe it is the women who are the oldest women in the world)

    Sardinians are the shortest Europeans - that is why they live the longest, among Europeans. (believe it is the men who are the oldest men in the world) Though possibly there might be a small Greek island that does better.

    Something similar can be seen in dogs. Larger dogs do not live as long as the smaller ones.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    For most of the 20th century, Sardinia and Okinawa are very poor areas.

    I don’t think a 2% difference of average height from mainland would explain their higher life expectancy (it’s not like dogs which can be 300% larger than another dog).

    What’s likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.

    Okinawa and Sardinia have traditional peasant diets, where they eat less protein eating during childhood (including famines in Okinawa in 1920s and 1940s).

    When Americans (Seventh Day Adventists) for religious reasons recreate a similar diet, they have similar high life expectancies.

    I think Seventh Day Adventists interpret Genesis 9:3-4 as a kind of temporary clause.

    Because before the flood man is only allowed to eat plants.

    That’s why in the beginning of Genesis, God says man can only eat seed carrying plants and trees with fruit.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29-30&version=NIV

    After the flood destroyed all the plants, then God says that man can eat meat, as a kind of concession in the contract for Noah’s covenant.

    So, eating meat is allowed by God, although only as a result of God’s concession in post-flood covenant with Noah.

    Seventh Day Adventists must view this post-flood contract with Noah as not something currently active. The fact they benefit with the higher life expectancy is more like a side effect of a religious interpretation.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry

    Interestingly, I heard a story some time ago detailing research that found that people who underwent food shortage as a child or adolescent had children with markedly longer and healthier life spans. It had to do with that dietary stress unlocking some metabolic magic which manifested in their offspring. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the original story which is a pity because it was fascinating stuff.

    It's not surprising to me that our soft lifestyles would actually lead to worse health overall, especially along with the dysgenic effect of unhealthy people reproducing much more frequently. It seems a recipe for an exploding rise in undesirable health conditions which require society to be continually more coddling, which in turn increases the reproduction of pathological conditions, ad nauseum.

    , @songbird
    @Dmitry


    What’s likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.
     
    They have ranked people by height in Sardinia and it still holds:

    Within Sardinia, there is a group of 14 municipalities that exhibit higher longevity compared to the rest of the island. In addition, as height declines among these municipalities, longevity increases with the shortest municipaliity, Villagrande Strisaili, having the greatest longevity.
     
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-05-sardinian-men-height-factor-longevity.html

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry

    I have not seen a post from Mike Darwin on the internet in ages. He is (or was) a cryonics zealot who had a ton of information which was sometimes very useful. On his post series "first get to the median" he had a bunch of analyses of various hypothetical longevity diets. He concluded the best one available was the 7th day adventist diet by a large margin.

    Which I suppose is a great plan if you like soy hot dogs. The last time I checked they were not serving bacon. : (

  339. @German_reader
    @Yellowface Anon

    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Svidomyatheart, @Max Demian

    The way the West do it (home confinement) is perfect for gamers.

  340. @German_reader
    @Svidomyatheart


    Also I should once again be more concerned about the war but what does German_Reader think about the Greens being in power?
     
    The thing about Germany being a Einwanderungsland isn't really new, the German left has been pushing this line for as long as I can remember, that is for at least 30 years. And yeah, of course for them it has always been primarily about dismantling any sense of Germany as an ethnocultural nation (supposedly an anomaly among Western democracies, another legacy of Germany's evil Sonderweg), and the more alien the immigrants, the better.
    What's changed since the 1990s, is that back then there was still some resistance, even in the early 2000s CDU/CSU in their party programme still emphatically stated that Germany wasn't a Einwanderungsland and that they were against mass immigration (and it has to be admitted, during the first asylum crisis in the early 1990s CDU actually took some steps to restrict the right to asylum, though the hard left always agitated against the compromise that was adopted, ultimately with success). Well, obviously that changed totally under Merkel. I think the hegemony of anti-national/pro-immigration ideas is pretty much complete by now, and the Left now feels they can implement anything they want, and go for the final kill, increasing both immigration and repression against dissent to unprecedented levels. They'll also increase funding for "antiracist" NGOs even more, obviously "civil society" needs to be supported, because far right extremism is the biggest threat to democracy after all, so all those activists with their bs degrees in political science and sociology will profit handsomely. This is also merely the culmination of trends that began back in the 1990s. They're unlikely to be reversed, so this is going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Have you considered that this could be the bitter end? A high-level summary of German politics 2015-21 first shows Merkel migration, then a few years of ambiguous belly-aching, and finally an electoral victory for parties saying that Merkel welcome policy didn’t go far enough. How is one supposed to interpret that?

    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Beckow


    the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.
     
    Very clearly it's swinging to the opposite end of what the Nazis wanted.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @German_reader
    @Beckow


    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.
     
    Well, that was more or less my point. In all likelihood there'll be a slow fade into nothingness, with the country becoming a bit more dysfunctional every year (infrastructure rotting away, skilled professionals leaving for greener pastures abroad, the boomers keeping on voting for the same zombie parties and caring about nothing but their own pensions, working population kept down by the burden of having to pay both for the boomers and the danegeld for unassimilable migrants), and less German, until by the end of the century ethnic Germans will be a relic population (20%? 10%? who knows). At the same time everything will become more authoritarian, with occasional bouts of hysteria, when some nutty right-winger kills lefties or shoots up a mosque or synagogue, which will be used as pretext for yet more repression.
    So you don't need to tell me, it's not like I have any illusions about some happy ending.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

  341. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    China should ban all games except for those played with the opposite sex. Couch co-op, or at least a LAN.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    If I were to head an international agency on public health after WHO had gone under because of the COVID agenda, I would institute a global ban on most forms of Americanized pop culture. We need to bankrupt the video game industry, and then seriosuly shrink the comic industry, cartoon/anime industry, and music industry. What China has done with games could be the next Wuhan lockdown, and “democracies” could ostensibly and begrudgingly follow, which they have done in COVID. We could quickly rid ourselves of American imperialist propaganda.

    We could make laws that treat content creators of these media as illegal but non-criminal. The far-right to the LDP in Japan coming to power could grease things up a bit, against decadent, non-bushido youth values. (I hope people knowing Japan well here can weigh in and see whether this is possible)

    The other way of doing it would be set up mandatory youth organizations that take up a considerable portion of the youth’s non-school life. The idealized scouts are the perfect antithesis of gamers, comic nerds and weebs.

    Americans might not like it, but Soviet-style music & visual arts, amd a folk culture revival will be excellent replacements for popular entertainment. After all, most direction in pop culture is from an cultural establishment that can be overthrown.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Yellowface Anon

    I can fully agree that American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when people are surprised that something like Islamic cultures regard America as "The Great Satan". Any traditionally minded culture would think that based on the culture we export.

    The other aspect of what you are talking about is consumer culture in general. As the name implies, it reduces men from being creators who build to helpless passive...consumers. Until consumer culture is thoroughly rejected the world will be enslaved to a variety of parasitic and destructive industries like the video game or music industry.

    We are meant to do and create and strive, not sit and suck at the teat, which is what is required of good consumers. I think this is the fundamental thing to reject and the rest will follow.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa, @Yellowface Anon

    , @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    Agree, with the exception that I would like to see Weekly Shōnen Jump rejiggered somehow so that it helps select the best natalist and nationalist ideas for the plots of films.

    I feel like manga is a cheap way to test the waters for nationalist plots in order to find those that would resonate the most. Maybe, it is just a misimpression, though, and I don't understand how much energy Japan spends on it and on anime.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Yellowface Anon

    Tell me how you're drowning in self-disgust without saying it.

    Perhaps don't confuse what changes you feel you need to make in your life with those everyone else has to make?

  342. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    includes a nurturing and familial environment coupled with strong faith
     
    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities.

    Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine, as their diet sounds healthy (often to grow their food organically in the garden).

    Mormon life expectancy is higher than USA average (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/mormonism-good-for-the-body-as-well-as-the-soul/2012/06/20/gJQARk3IqV_blog.html).

    In Israel, Haredim have the highest life expectancy. In Modiin it is 87,6 ( https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-new-report-shows-significant-discrepancy-in-life-expectancy-between-israeli-cities-1.8224439 )

    This is even though, they live with the highest poverty rate, supposedly have an unhealthy diet, high rates of diabetes and the highest tobacco use of any group.

    This is a kind of paradox, but according to Wikipedia: "In a study by Nitza Kasir and Dmitry Romanov, these data are also explained by the fact that the ultra-Orthodox are employed at a lower rate than the general population in blue-collar occupations such as construction and agriculture, thus being less exposed to occupational disease. Another factor that they say may affect the high life expectancy in the sector is lower exposure to other risk factors, such as military service, cigarette smoking and drug and alcohol consumption."


    More natural foods (less processed food) and less

     

    It might also be a lower daily meat consumption, higher fruit and vegetable consumption and less of processed food.

    In islands like Okinawa, perhaps also less pollution, more sun, more simple life.

    There's also a possibility of selection for a stronger population during famines in WW2 (although such pressures are in many other countries, like the postsoviet space, which have low life expectancy).

    There was a news report about the life expectancy in Okinawa.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QXS5e8j-XE

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities. Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine

    I was curious about this so I looked it up. The average American stands at 78 years old while the average Amish is at 72. However, data seems to indicate that Amish have better average health in old age, which is not entirely surprising given their active lives.

    It’s not really true that Amish reject modern medicine. They will certainly go to the local hospital to have surgeries or other procedures. They do reject massive end of life interventions however, which may account for some of that life expectancy differential. We spend a lot of time keeping terminal people pasted together, so some of those gained years are not exactly very high in terms of quality.

    The other aspect that may drive Amish life expectancy down would be accidents, since Amish are not at all risk averse. I’ve seen barefoot 10 year olds with chainsaws, or running a team of horses. The community is of paramount importance to them, not the survival of the individual, so they take risks and get things done. That’s not necessarily a criticism since I get along with them just fine, having a somewhat similar outlook.

    [MORE]

    My youngest (almost 2) may be not far off from the 10 year old with the chainsaw soon enough. I was upstairs tonight working in our addition project moving some flooring and as soon as he saw what I was up to he jumped in and started picking up these 8′ and 10′ strips of hardwood flooring to pass to me, making little manly grunts. Too cute! Once I started running the shop-vac he grabbed a broom and started pushing it around. I’ve noticed it with the others too, but kids really love to help and be included in adult business. It’s too bad that gets squelched so often by confining them to “kid stuff”.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    accidents, since Amish are not at all risk averse
     
    Agriculture is a really dangerous profession, perhaps even enough to lower life expectancy.

    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.

    Whereas I thought Amish are doing low-capital intensity agriculture, with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

    -

    Of American religions, I feel like the most practically attractive seem still Mormons. You have higher life expectancy and relatively normal incomes. Still they live half in the modern world. But it's sad they can't have caffeine or nicotine.

    Seventh Day Adventists are seeming to have a good life as well, and living relatively normal, but - no meat.


    American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when
     
    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.

    You feel a kind of wind of the future from their popular culture. Which is then surprising when you visit America, and realize that American life is more old fashioned and chaotic in some ways (e.g. with lower levels of digitization, which is a good thing).

    -


    If we look at the 1950s American culture, like fast food. On one hand, it is people with a mentality of teenagers are operating the American cultural production of the 1950s (roller skating girls, carry milkshakes to your car).

    But it is also like they were already perceiving the 21st century. There is a transcendental spirit in their denaturization of food and transport. This is what the technological effect on history is going to do to all of us anyway, but 1950s America has embraced it as a positive.

    For example, using a machine to apply tomato sauce at 2:55. You can't just pour tomato. You need a special machine. Our grandchildren will probably be bidding to buy those when they build Roblox MacDonald's in the metaverse.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZeeLZDWb-s

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  343. @Beckow
    @German_reader

    Have you considered that this could be the bitter end? A high-level summary of German politics 2015-21 first shows Merkel migration, then a few years of ambiguous belly-aching, and finally an electoral victory for parties saying that Merkel welcome policy didn't go far enough. How is one supposed to interpret that?

    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @German_reader

    the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.

    Very clearly it’s swinging to the opposite end of what the Nazis wanted.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Yellowface Anon

    Austria was the first country mandate vax. Germany may be headed. But will never happen in Red States America.

  344. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    If I were to head an international agency on public health after WHO had gone under because of the COVID agenda, I would institute a global ban on most forms of Americanized pop culture. We need to bankrupt the video game industry, and then seriosuly shrink the comic industry, cartoon/anime industry, and music industry. What China has done with games could be the next Wuhan lockdown, and "democracies" could ostensibly and begrudgingly follow, which they have done in COVID. We could quickly rid ourselves of American imperialist propaganda.

    We could make laws that treat content creators of these media as illegal but non-criminal. The far-right to the LDP in Japan coming to power could grease things up a bit, against decadent, non-bushido youth values. (I hope people knowing Japan well here can weigh in and see whether this is possible)

    The other way of doing it would be set up mandatory youth organizations that take up a considerable portion of the youth's non-school life. The idealized scouts are the perfect antithesis of gamers, comic nerds and weebs.

    Americans might not like it, but Soviet-style music & visual arts, amd a folk culture revival will be excellent replacements for popular entertainment. After all, most direction in pop culture is from an cultural establishment that can be overthrown.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Triteleia Laxa

    I can fully agree that American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when people are surprised that something like Islamic cultures regard America as “The Great Satan”. Any traditionally minded culture would think that based on the culture we export.

    The other aspect of what you are talking about is consumer culture in general. As the name implies, it reduces men from being creators who build to helpless passive…consumers. Until consumer culture is thoroughly rejected the world will be enslaved to a variety of parasitic and destructive industries like the video game or music industry.

    We are meant to do and create and strive, not sit and suck at the teat, which is what is required of good consumers. I think this is the fundamental thing to reject and the rest will follow.

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @Barbarossa

    https://archive.md/8coSw
    Social matter archive - Liberation means submission to progressive identity

    https://archive.md/6Ydhb
    Social matter - women's liberation is prostitution

    Everything is q of who has power over who.
    Freedom is being subject to a certain set of Anglo norms & institutions
    Just read through it, and ask questions.
    Let's get back to an intellectual board instead of the pointless ethnic kanging

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180202082106/https://reactionaryfuture.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/the-common-root-of-all-modern-political-discourse/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Barbarossa

    That day might come soon and catastrophically. We might be at the end of a cycle of degeneration and a generation is coming who will start with a clean post-modern slate, after much self-liquidation of what's rotten.

  345. German_reader says:
    @Beckow
    @German_reader

    Have you considered that this could be the bitter end? A high-level summary of German politics 2015-21 first shows Merkel migration, then a few years of ambiguous belly-aching, and finally an electoral victory for parties saying that Merkel welcome policy didn't go far enough. How is one supposed to interpret that?

    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @German_reader

    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.

    Well, that was more or less my point. In all likelihood there’ll be a slow fade into nothingness, with the country becoming a bit more dysfunctional every year (infrastructure rotting away, skilled professionals leaving for greener pastures abroad, the boomers keeping on voting for the same zombie parties and caring about nothing but their own pensions, working population kept down by the burden of having to pay both for the boomers and the danegeld for unassimilable migrants), and less German, until by the end of the century ethnic Germans will be a relic population (20%? 10%? who knows). At the same time everything will become more authoritarian, with occasional bouts of hysteria, when some nutty right-winger kills lefties or shoots up a mosque or synagogue, which will be used as pretext for yet more repression.
    So you don’t need to tell me, it’s not like I have any illusions about some happy ending.

    • Replies: @A123
    @German_reader

    I agree with Beckow & your trajectory views. However, let me fix the phrasing:

    Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Franco-Germany with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.

    Open Muslim Borders were spearheaded by Angel Merkel and the World Economic Forum [WEF] of Davos.
    -- The problem with Europe is Europe.
    -- The problem with Germany is Germany.

    While the trajectory is clear. It is not too late:

    -- Europe can follow MAGA with their own MEGA Reindustrialization and reclaim their Christian culture & traditions.
    -- Or, they can keep deluding themselves about non-existent American tampering, reject MEGA Reindustrialization, and fall into a cultural abyss.

    I am not even European, but I reject your Euro-surrender. Why do you and your countrymen refuse to fight against the German Elite created tide of Rape-ugees, imported by Merkel and now Scholz? Do your countrymen really want to be more like the French with "no-go" zones closed to Christians?

    I genuinely do not understand the total commitment to "anti-MAGA/MEGA surrender" political parties. You have a sane option in AfD, but they cannot clear 20%.
    _____

    As a side point:

    It is fairly clear that the current EU/EZ is making things worse for almost everyone except a handful of elite European Elites. When will the EU end? And, will it be orderly or chaotic?

    Or, is there a chance for the EU to go MEGA? Structurally this seems impossible to me. I think it has to be fully replaced.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take
     
    My comment was that what we are seeing today could be the form that the bitter end takes. But, yes we agree. And my frequent rage against the lazy, escapist boomers whose misreading of reality and disinterest in the future of their kids (if they even have any) is a generational crime seldom seen in a civilization. (But that offends Mr. Hack pension plans, so I will let it be.)

    On a more optimistic note, supporting A123, there is an old adage that trends continue until they don't. Things can change, they have changed before. There is still a healthy European core east of Germany, unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse, it would help many to sober up.

    Replies: @A123, @German_reader

  346. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    If you compare London and Dublin, and in Dublin there is an immediate culture shock that the people have some kind of higher responsiveness
     
    There is, of course, more of a big city or almost imperial vibe in London as opposed to Dublin. But even in London people are outwardly nicer than in Eastern Europe. The British are typically very polite and outwardly friendly but then they go about their lives and are quite individualistic. Which is ok once you're accultured to it and act accordingly. Whereas the Irish are just altogether warmer, at least in Dublin. Maybe in Western Ireland they're a bit more colder? There is a very rugged sea faring culture on that side.


    Do you think extroverted, social people are actually nicer though?
     
    I've recently started believing that, yes. After Covid. Maybe the more extroverted cultures, when problems hit, tend to solve them on a more private level whereas the more colder cultures tend to refer to institutions? Which in this day and age... if you ask me, the first option might actually be better. But who knows.

    When I was about your age and younger, extroverts used to annoy the heck out of me. I can totally see how you enjoy solitude. Now I appreciate them more. I have a Latin acquaintance who really likes helping me out, without being asked, and who started calling me "a friend" after, like, 3 months of communicating and she was always the one who sought out the friendship first. And it turned out that she was more charitable than all the introverts. But this is ofc subjective. At some point our connection started really showing (I'm half Latgalian/culturally Catholic despite everything). And sometimes it can go even deeper with romantic relationships and can actually determine who is born and who connects with who. Although I still need a lot of alone time and typically do not long to chit chat with strangers like the extroverts do. In my culture we don't show emotions either, but I actually find it more human that Slavic women, for instance, show more emotions.

    Btw, in this context I was thinking recently of Max Korzh whom we talked about in the other thread. He's all about that somewhat collectivist culture of many patsans together and everyone huddling together. Back in the day it would've seemed kind of off-putting to me but now that I can view it from a distance it's actually quite sweet. You always have someone to rely on, like a family. It would probably be too tight for me but I definitely see the benefits. It also makes it obvious how and why the Slavic expansion happened.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    in London people are outwardly nicer than in Eastern Europe. The British are typically very polite and outwardly friendly

    Yes I feel English culture are somewhere in a median. But in England, if you want to ask for help, I feel like a 70% chance they will be friendly and polite, 30% chance they will be unfriendly.

    Whereas in Ireland, you have can some confidence like 90% will be friendly.

    more extroverted cultures, when problems hit, tend to solve them on a more private level whereas the more colder cultures tend to refer to institutions

    These friendly, extraverted nationalities like Irish, Mexicans, Philipinos, Spanish, Italians, Brazilians – often correlates to quite difficult or dysfunctional politics though.

    Mexico, Colombia and Philippines might have some of the world’s nicest people, but then the countries themselves are some of the most dangerous in the world.

    So I agree with you they are more pleasant cultures, in an individual level. But the societal level will not necessarily be so gentle.

    Most politically dysfunctional countries actually have more friendly people. Africa and Latin America, should be paradises, if you judged from how friendly the people are.

    And then compare some more unfriendly nationalities like Swedish, Finns, Danes. But there they have some of the world’s more civilized politics, with the least friendly population. Even Estonians probably have the most successful postsoviet politics.

    I guess there are some exceptions of introverted countries with dysfunctional politics (Russia, Belarus, North Korea), and maybe even we can find some rare example of extroverted countries with functional politics (Australia?)

    Max Korzh whom we talked about in the other thread. He’s all about that somewhat collectivist

    Yes I can’t think of things I like less like either when young, or now old (crush of too many people, bad rap songs).

    But on the political level he needs a peace prize from the UN. Yuri Dud said something also.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Dmitry

    "But in England, if you want to ask for help, I feel like a 70% chance they will be friendly and polite, 30% chance they will be unfriendly." - Yes, 70% friendly and 90% useless. While in NYC they will be 70% unfriendly but 90% useful.

  347. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    For most of the 20th century, Sardinia and Okinawa are very poor areas.

    I don't think a 2% difference of average height from mainland would explain their higher life expectancy (it's not like dogs which can be 300% larger than another dog).

    What's likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.

    Okinawa and Sardinia have traditional peasant diets, where they eat less protein eating during childhood (including famines in Okinawa in 1920s and 1940s).

    When Americans (Seventh Day Adventists) for religious reasons recreate a similar diet, they have similar high life expectancies.

    -


    I think Seventh Day Adventists interpret Genesis 9:3-4 as a kind of temporary clause.

    Because before the flood man is only allowed to eat plants.

    That's why in the beginning of Genesis, God says man can only eat seed carrying plants and trees with fruit.

    https://i.imgur.com/7N0aQWG.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29-30&version=NIV

    After the flood destroyed all the plants, then God says that man can eat meat, as a kind of concession in the contract for Noah's covenant.

    So, eating meat is allowed by God, although only as a result of God's concession in post-flood covenant with Noah.
    https://i.imgur.com/Rsy0Ied.jpg


    Seventh Day Adventists must view this post-flood contract with Noah as not something currently active. The fact they benefit with the higher life expectancy is more like a side effect of a religious interpretation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Interestingly, I heard a story some time ago detailing research that found that people who underwent food shortage as a child or adolescent had children with markedly longer and healthier life spans. It had to do with that dietary stress unlocking some metabolic magic which manifested in their offspring. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find the original story which is a pity because it was fascinating stuff.

    It’s not surprising to me that our soft lifestyles would actually lead to worse health overall, especially along with the dysgenic effect of unhealthy people reproducing much more frequently. It seems a recipe for an exploding rise in undesirable health conditions which require society to be continually more coddling, which in turn increases the reproduction of pathological conditions, ad nauseum.

  348. @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry


    Although Amish have significantly lower average life expectancy for the USA, than other American nationalities. Probably because Amish might reject modern medicine
     
    I was curious about this so I looked it up. The average American stands at 78 years old while the average Amish is at 72. However, data seems to indicate that Amish have better average health in old age, which is not entirely surprising given their active lives.

    It's not really true that Amish reject modern medicine. They will certainly go to the local hospital to have surgeries or other procedures. They do reject massive end of life interventions however, which may account for some of that life expectancy differential. We spend a lot of time keeping terminal people pasted together, so some of those gained years are not exactly very high in terms of quality.

    The other aspect that may drive Amish life expectancy down would be accidents, since Amish are not at all risk averse. I've seen barefoot 10 year olds with chainsaws, or running a team of horses. The community is of paramount importance to them, not the survival of the individual, so they take risks and get things done. That's not necessarily a criticism since I get along with them just fine, having a somewhat similar outlook.



    My youngest (almost 2) may be not far off from the 10 year old with the chainsaw soon enough. I was upstairs tonight working in our addition project moving some flooring and as soon as he saw what I was up to he jumped in and started picking up these 8' and 10' strips of hardwood flooring to pass to me, making little manly grunts. Too cute! Once I started running the shop-vac he grabbed a broom and started pushing it around. I've noticed it with the others too, but kids really love to help and be included in adult business. It's too bad that gets squelched so often by confining them to "kid stuff".

    Replies: @Dmitry

    accidents, since Amish are not at all risk averse

    Agriculture is a really dangerous profession, perhaps even enough to lower life expectancy.

    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.

    Whereas I thought Amish are doing low-capital intensity agriculture, with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

    Of American religions, I feel like the most practically attractive seem still Mormons. You have higher life expectancy and relatively normal incomes. Still they live half in the modern world. But it’s sad they can’t have caffeine or nicotine.

    Seventh Day Adventists are seeming to have a good life as well, and living relatively normal, but – no meat.

    American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when

    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.

    You feel a kind of wind of the future from their popular culture. Which is then surprising when you visit America, and realize that American life is more old fashioned and chaotic in some ways (e.g. with lower levels of digitization, which is a good thing).

    If we look at the 1950s American culture, like fast food. On one hand, it is people with a mentality of teenagers are operating the American cultural production of the 1950s (roller skating girls, carry milkshakes to your car).

    But it is also like they were already perceiving the 21st century. There is a transcendental spirit in their denaturization of food and transport. This is what the technological effect on history is going to do to all of us anyway, but 1950s America has embraced it as a positive.

    For example, using a machine to apply tomato sauce at 2:55. You can’t just pour tomato. You need a special machine. Our grandchildren will probably be bidding to buy those when they build Roblox MacDonald’s in the metaverse.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry


    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.
     
    Actually horses are quite dangerous themselves. They are after all living creatures which injects a level of unpredictability into the equation. Getting kicked in the head is a quick way to shed this mortal coil. In the construction of the railroads or the canals getting brained by a mule or horse was not an uncommon way to go, though in the construction of the Eire canal the major causes of death were malaria and the careless use of gunpowder for blasting.

    with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

     

    The thing to remember about the Amish is that they are far from homogeneous. Each community gets to interpret the rules for themselves, and dissatisfaction with a community's approach will result in a new community forming. Some will use chainsaws while others will stick with bucksaws. Diesel engines tied to Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts, and pulleys will power entire cabinet shops.

    I deal with a lot of Amish sawmills to source timbers and lumber, and they are all over the map. Some communities strictly use horses while others will use tracked equipment (no rubber tires) like dozers. Most of the Amish sawmills that I deal with do own a rubber tired loader for moving lumber bundles and logs, but usually "the English" have to operate them. Though don't let them fool you, they know quite well how to operate it as well!

    The Amish also do a lot of construction work around me. They roughly take the economic place of Mexicans and central Americans, of which there are few around me, in the building industry. They are quite fearless and hard driving, crawling around a frame, often barefoot, like ants.

    With their lives centered around physical labor in it's various forms I would expect that their accident rate would be rather high, though all these are dealt with internally by the community.

    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.
     
    I would say that it's more of a self fulfilling prophecy. But yes, America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports. I live in a fairly traditional backwater, but even these are being increasingly eroded by the foulness of hyper-individualized pop culture. The self respecting farmers are being replaced more and more by Welfare dependent trailer trash.

    Replies: @utu, @Dmitry

  349. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    For most of the 20th century, Sardinia and Okinawa are very poor areas.

    I don't think a 2% difference of average height from mainland would explain their higher life expectancy (it's not like dogs which can be 300% larger than another dog).

    What's likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.

    Okinawa and Sardinia have traditional peasant diets, where they eat less protein eating during childhood (including famines in Okinawa in 1920s and 1940s).

    When Americans (Seventh Day Adventists) for religious reasons recreate a similar diet, they have similar high life expectancies.

    -


    I think Seventh Day Adventists interpret Genesis 9:3-4 as a kind of temporary clause.

    Because before the flood man is only allowed to eat plants.

    That's why in the beginning of Genesis, God says man can only eat seed carrying plants and trees with fruit.

    https://i.imgur.com/7N0aQWG.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29-30&version=NIV

    After the flood destroyed all the plants, then God says that man can eat meat, as a kind of concession in the contract for Noah's covenant.

    So, eating meat is allowed by God, although only as a result of God's concession in post-flood covenant with Noah.
    https://i.imgur.com/Rsy0Ied.jpg


    Seventh Day Adventists must view this post-flood contract with Noah as not something currently active. The fact they benefit with the higher life expectancy is more like a side effect of a religious interpretation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    What’s likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.

    They have ranked people by height in Sardinia and it still holds:

    Within Sardinia, there is a group of 14 municipalities that exhibit higher longevity compared to the rest of the island. In addition, as height declines among these municipalities, longevity increases with the shortest municipaliity, Villagrande Strisaili, having the greatest longevity.

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-05-sardinian-men-height-factor-longevity.html

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @songbird

    Yes but this is consistent. If the regions where there was greater calorie or protein (or meat) restriction within Sardinia, would have both higher life expectancy and lower heights.

    This is a plausible appearing causal relationship can be.
    Calorie and protein (meat) restriction - > higher life expectancy and lower heights.


    -


    There's also apparently a Greek island in the Eastern Mediterranean called "Ikaria" (where Icarus has fallen to the sea), with the same high life expectancy. like Okinawa or Sardinia

    Journalists infer it is an effect of their natural diet based in local production, although of course not easy to separate diet's influence on the healthy people in such islands from the effect of their traditional, almost utopian lifestyle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2t2AWaRo1g

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

  350. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    If I were to head an international agency on public health after WHO had gone under because of the COVID agenda, I would institute a global ban on most forms of Americanized pop culture. We need to bankrupt the video game industry, and then seriosuly shrink the comic industry, cartoon/anime industry, and music industry. What China has done with games could be the next Wuhan lockdown, and "democracies" could ostensibly and begrudgingly follow, which they have done in COVID. We could quickly rid ourselves of American imperialist propaganda.

    We could make laws that treat content creators of these media as illegal but non-criminal. The far-right to the LDP in Japan coming to power could grease things up a bit, against decadent, non-bushido youth values. (I hope people knowing Japan well here can weigh in and see whether this is possible)

    The other way of doing it would be set up mandatory youth organizations that take up a considerable portion of the youth's non-school life. The idealized scouts are the perfect antithesis of gamers, comic nerds and weebs.

    Americans might not like it, but Soviet-style music & visual arts, amd a folk culture revival will be excellent replacements for popular entertainment. After all, most direction in pop culture is from an cultural establishment that can be overthrown.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Triteleia Laxa

    Agree, with the exception that I would like to see Weekly Shōnen Jump rejiggered somehow so that it helps select the best natalist and nationalist ideas for the plots of films.

    I feel like manga is a cheap way to test the waters for nationalist plots in order to find those that would resonate the most. Maybe, it is just a misimpression, though, and I don’t understand how much energy Japan spends on it and on anime.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    The current Prime Minister wants to support the anime and manga industry: https://comicbook.com/anime/news/new-japanese-prime-minister-fan-of-demon-slayer-higher-wages-anime-industry/
    Which is the worst policy any self-respecting right-wing can conceive of. If the far-right in Japan coukd take power (they are always at a distance from it) they should just go full Taliban to the cultural industries that started out as American occupiers' operations, not just Chinese-style regulation on the cultural 5th column. The Gundam statue at Odaiba could be a good air force practice target

    What the Japanese far right should promote is literature (Mishima!) that is ultra-nationalist to rekindle the bushido spirit levelled by the Yankees, for a Sinocentric, Pan-Asian era, of course.

    Replies: @Pericles

  351. @Barbarossa
    @Yellowface Anon

    I can fully agree that American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when people are surprised that something like Islamic cultures regard America as "The Great Satan". Any traditionally minded culture would think that based on the culture we export.

    The other aspect of what you are talking about is consumer culture in general. As the name implies, it reduces men from being creators who build to helpless passive...consumers. Until consumer culture is thoroughly rejected the world will be enslaved to a variety of parasitic and destructive industries like the video game or music industry.

    We are meant to do and create and strive, not sit and suck at the teat, which is what is required of good consumers. I think this is the fundamental thing to reject and the rest will follow.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa, @Yellowface Anon

    https://archive.md/8coSw
    Social matter archive – Liberation means submission to progressive identity

    https://archive.md/6Ydhb
    Social matter – women’s liberation is prostitution

    Everything is q of who has power over who.
    Freedom is being subject to a certain set of Anglo norms & institutions
    Just read through it, and ask questions.
    Let’s get back to an intellectual board instead of the pointless ethnic kanging

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180202082106/https://reactionaryfuture.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/the-common-root-of-all-modern-political-discourse/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Thanks for the links. You are preaching to the choir here though since I'm in full agreement.

    Ethnic rivalries are pretty pointless if everyone ends up the same undifferentiated mushy consumer in the end. Russia or Ukraine is a pointless distinction if they both revolve around the worship of blue jeans, pop music, and McDonalds.

    The principle difficulty of being in the West is that most cultural identity has already been jettisoned. "3rd world" countries are better off in a way because they still preserve culture and religion as things to be taken seriously and defended, not just as lifestyles or hobbies.

  352. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    For most of the 20th century, Sardinia and Okinawa are very poor areas.

    I don't think a 2% difference of average height from mainland would explain their higher life expectancy (it's not like dogs which can be 300% larger than another dog).

    What's likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.

    Okinawa and Sardinia have traditional peasant diets, where they eat less protein eating during childhood (including famines in Okinawa in 1920s and 1940s).

    When Americans (Seventh Day Adventists) for religious reasons recreate a similar diet, they have similar high life expectancies.

    -


    I think Seventh Day Adventists interpret Genesis 9:3-4 as a kind of temporary clause.

    Because before the flood man is only allowed to eat plants.

    That's why in the beginning of Genesis, God says man can only eat seed carrying plants and trees with fruit.

    https://i.imgur.com/7N0aQWG.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29-30&version=NIV

    After the flood destroyed all the plants, then God says that man can eat meat, as a kind of concession in the contract for Noah's covenant.

    So, eating meat is allowed by God, although only as a result of God's concession in post-flood covenant with Noah.
    https://i.imgur.com/Rsy0Ied.jpg


    Seventh Day Adventists must view this post-flood contract with Noah as not something currently active. The fact they benefit with the higher life expectancy is more like a side effect of a religious interpretation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I have not seen a post from Mike Darwin on the internet in ages. He is (or was) a cryonics zealot who had a ton of information which was sometimes very useful. On his post series “first get to the median” he had a bunch of analyses of various hypothetical longevity diets. He concluded the best one available was the 7th day adventist diet by a large margin.

    Which I suppose is a great plan if you like soy hot dogs. The last time I checked they were not serving bacon. : (

  353. @Aedib
    @Mike_from_Russia

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iVmJRAyJVY&list=UUnH6QL7JCDRp9HBXtm4mqxg

    Annalena did it again.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia

    Turn green until you’re blue in the face!!!!
    With love, your Gazprom.

  354. @Aedib
    @Mikhail

    I think, it is also no longer feasible in the long term. The Russophobe pro-Western indoctrination has successfully worked here. Another thing is how the Maidan project (i.e. a big rabid Russophobe “Cuba” next to Russia) will end. I think Huntington’s view is the likeliest one. Places like Ukraine, Nepal, Punjab + Kashmir, the US-Mexican cultural border (which is moving inside the USA from the south) are unstable fracture lines separating civilizational blocks.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    I think, it is also no longer feasible in the long term. The Russophobe pro-Western indoctrination has successfully worked here. Another thing is how the Maidan project (i.e. a big rabid Russophobe “Cuba” next to Russia) will end. I think Huntington’s view is the likeliest one. Places like Ukraine, Nepal, Punjab + Kashmir, the US-Mexican cultural border (which is moving inside the USA from the south) are unstable fracture lines separating civilizational blocks.

    Much of that indoctrination is misguided, in conjunction with the West not likely to give Ukraine NATO and/or EU membership. The former Habsburg part of Ukraine wasn’t always so anti-Russian. Changes have occurred in the past. No reason to rule out for the future.

  355. @Barbarossa
    @Yellowface Anon

    I can fully agree that American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when people are surprised that something like Islamic cultures regard America as "The Great Satan". Any traditionally minded culture would think that based on the culture we export.

    The other aspect of what you are talking about is consumer culture in general. As the name implies, it reduces men from being creators who build to helpless passive...consumers. Until consumer culture is thoroughly rejected the world will be enslaved to a variety of parasitic and destructive industries like the video game or music industry.

    We are meant to do and create and strive, not sit and suck at the teat, which is what is required of good consumers. I think this is the fundamental thing to reject and the rest will follow.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa, @Yellowface Anon

    That day might come soon and catastrophically. We might be at the end of a cycle of degeneration and a generation is coming who will start with a clean post-modern slate, after much self-liquidation of what’s rotten.


  356. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  357. Beckow, this might be of interest to you since you live in former Czechoslovakia. I watched this clip and this was Prague in 1989:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nZ1Q2a19dUQ

    The society was really functional (partly because it was propaganda), just that the tech looks 10 years behind the West, but still servicable at that time. Can you try to interpret the Czech ending words for me with your native Slovak knowledge?

  358. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    Agree, with the exception that I would like to see Weekly Shōnen Jump rejiggered somehow so that it helps select the best natalist and nationalist ideas for the plots of films.

    I feel like manga is a cheap way to test the waters for nationalist plots in order to find those that would resonate the most. Maybe, it is just a misimpression, though, and I don't understand how much energy Japan spends on it and on anime.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    The current Prime Minister wants to support the anime and manga industry: https://comicbook.com/anime/news/new-japanese-prime-minister-fan-of-demon-slayer-higher-wages-anime-industry/
    Which is the worst policy any self-respecting right-wing can conceive of. If the far-right in Japan coukd take power (they are always at a distance from it) they should just go full Taliban to the cultural industries that started out as American occupiers’ operations, not just Chinese-style regulation on the cultural 5th column. The Gundam statue at Odaiba could be a good air force practice target

    What the Japanese far right should promote is literature (Mishima!) that is ultra-nationalist to rekindle the bushido spirit levelled by the Yankees, for a Sinocentric, Pan-Asian era, of course.

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Yellowface Anon

    The Japanese are perhaps best in the world at apologizing and reflecting on their mistakes. I include their post-WW2 in this assessment.

  359. @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    BlackRock compared to Vanguard, seems that they include Samsung – so BlackRock still include Korea for the emerging market fund.
     
    I found the reason is because BlackRock uses the MSCI emerging market classification. South Korea is still included as an emerging market by MSCI.

    However Vanguard is using the FTSE emerging market index, which does not include South Korea anymore.

    These funds are actively managed and decided to weigh most of their investments to China and Taiwan in the last years.


    It’s funny they invest much of the money to Chinese e-commerce platforms like Alibaba and Tencent.

    For my imagination of an emerging market fund, I was naively guessing more things like investments in companies like Mittal steel, Gazprom, Petrobras?
     

    I also found the answer for this, is because the fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.

    So as a result, they actively manage the funds, and add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.

    "“In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF (VWO) and the iShares MSCI Emerging Markets ETF (EEM).

    “What we’ve done is create really the tip of the spear not just of growth in emerging markets, but in the entire world,” Carter said of EMQQ.

    The ETF is 66% weighted toward internet services stocks, 8% department stores, 6% software and 4% real estate services. It is also 64% Hong Kong and Chinese stocks, with Alibaba, Tencent, Pinduoduo and Meituan making up the top 29% of the portfolio." https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/broad-emerging-market-indexes-are-broken-etf-manager-says.html

    -

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.

    The article says about another emerging market fund that invests in countries with more "freedom and liberty".

    "Another way to look at the emerging markets trade is through the lens of freedom and liberty, at least according to Perth Tolle, founder of Life + Liberty Indexes."

    "Her firm runs the index behind the Alpha Architect Freedom 100 Emerging Market ETF (FRDM), which weighs its holdings based on civil, political and economic freedom metrics."

    "Its top holdings are Taiwan Semiconductor, Samsung Electronics and Bank of Central Asia. With no allocation to China, its top weightings by country are Taiwan at 20%, Chile at 17%, South Korea also at 17% and Poland at 16%."

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.

    Indeed, a lot of EM fund managers failed to understand that it was a Chinese-driven supercycle that drove commodity prices up and hence ‘lifted all boats’. Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.

    add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.

    The tech rally we’ve seen over the past decade, which has made me a lot of money, will continue. There are two structural reasons for this. The first is that technological advancements beget advancements. In other words, as latencies come tumbling down, business models that were previously impossible suddenly become feasible.

    The second reason is a more philosophical. If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology. Still, even if you get the macro trend right you nonetheless have to be disciplined enough to make discerning choices between various companies in the same field.

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.

    Yes, I’ve largely avoided Chinese firms well before Trump for this very reason. I have a cynical understanding of the US, and of world politics in general, but it has helped me in avoiding unnecessary losses. The US doesn’t tolerate competitors. But neither does the CCP, which means Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.

    ““In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF.

    I’ve invested in a Vietnamese ETF linked to their broader index funds. It has made me some amount of money, but it’s nothing spectacular. I will hold them for the long haul. Vietnam differs from Brazil in that it’s a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it’s big, so you can have individual firms doing well but I am not optimistic about the broad macro story there. Indexed ETFs should only be bought for highly competitive eocnomies (I only own three: US, Denmark and Vietnam). I would have invested in China if not for the politics.

    P.S. I don’t recall you being this engaged in these topics before. A recent change of heart or are you just more open with it?
    I disagree with this quote.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Thulean Friend


    Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.
     
    They won't develop because their cultures stop them.

    technological advancements beget advancements
     
    Until the economies that have beem hubs for tech development "decarbonize", at which point the tech level will stagnate and drop gradually because of a structural reduction in energy use.

    If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology.
     
    No.
    , @Jatt Aryaa
    @Thulean Friend

    https://twitter.com/PrestonPysh/status/1470792753621741570?s=20

    Invest in crypto or drive tractor for Modi

    Those are my 2 paths of not financial advice

    Also fk cow slaughter

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    , @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.
     
    A problem, I think, with investment in China is that it is still an authoritarian dictatorship.

    So, there is a limit to your property rights in your investment, and to the property rights of the company itself. Moreover, this can be more of a problem for internet companies, which sell information, than for traditional industries.

    If you buy shares in Alibaba, not only do you not really have ownership (https://thediplomat.com/2014/09/no-one-who-bought-alibaba-stock-actually-owns-alibaba), but also even Jack Ma doesn't own what he has (https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2021/06/07/the-sad-end-of-jack-ma-inc ).

    Life in China will be such a game where you are not sure exactly that you own what you are supposed to own, until you get the Canadian investment citizenship with the multi-million dollar penthouse in Vancouver.

    I'm not any expert, but I imagine that even professional workers in Wall Street can only give you a few interpretations for Alibaba. "This is undervalued because of the China risk is overvalued". "This is an accurate price because of the China risk". Or - "This is overvalued because of the China risk is undervalued".

    In no scenario will China risk suddenly disappear, so it will just not have a long term valuation like an equivalent Western company.

    Brazil in that it’s a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it’s big

     

    Again I'm not an expert, but I would assume the problems with Brazil, are political or society problems.

    This is like Russia. You can ask why GDP of the Russian Federation is lower today that it was in 2008. That's Russia's economy has zero GDP growth over the last 12 years.

    But another question (easier) you can ask, are the authorities worried that the economy is smaller today, than 12 years ago? Should they be worried? Is it a serious problem? No, they don't seem to really care. Maybe it is a problem for the little people, not for the big people.

    There is a equilibrium in the country between control and creating conditions for economic growth.

    Kasⓟersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world's successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.

    At some point, you might think about choice between export growth of the company, and its integration with FSB, GRU, etc. However, what if the raison d'être of the company, is this integration.

    Above a certain level, the control is a higher priority that the economic growth (and centralized middle income countries like Russia has already more than enough money for the rulers to have an incomprehensible level of wealth).

    Pavel Durov says he can't even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn't climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d'être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.

    I would have invested in China if not for the politics

     

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

  360. If this is true, I’m amazed at the recent worldpower of Lithuania – China is blocking German industry exports because Taiwan opened its representative office in Lithuania, lol

    However, the article is very poorly written, did not find anything about this in official BDI page and China seems to not be blocking Taiwan, which opened that office, exports to China because of this:

    Germany’s powerful business lobby was severely criticized in China after communist countries blocked imports from German manufacturers in Lithuania.

    The BDI has accused Beijing of being a “catastrophic own goal” after being caught in China’s decision to ban imports from Baltic states by companies in other EU member states.

    “The latest measures China has taken against Lithuania are equivalent to a trade boycott affecting the EU as a whole,” he said. “Imports from China required for Lithuanian German manufacturing facilities have also been affected, and exports from Germany to China, including Lithuanian parts, have also been affected.”

    “In the long run, China’s escalation is a devastating own goal, which shows that China is ready to be economically separated from its” politically undesirable “partners. It is clear to BDI that no damage to the value chain at the heart of the EU single market should be tolerated. “

    But a swipe in Lithuania to strengthen relations with Taiwan, a move that caused the crisis, criticized individual states that were “out of step” with EU policy.China Germany’s largest trading partner, 213 billion euros of goods exchanged in 2020.

    “Maintaining a high level of economic relations with China remains important,” BDI said. The statement will pressure Berlin to intervene diplomatically.

    According to people familiar with the matter, Continental, Germany’s leading auto parts supplier, is one of the companies whose exports have been blocked by Chinese customs authorities. The company manufactures telematic control units at its factory in Kaunas, Lithuania.

    China Blocked all imports from Lithuania earlier this monthAfter the Baltic States allowed Taiwan to open a de facto consulate in the capital Vilnius. Beijing, which considers Taiwan as part of China, has also ceased consulate service in Lithuania. Vilnius separated diplomats from China because of their security concerns.

    However, China’s import ban on Lithuania is now beginning to hurt foreign companies that have set up manufacturing facilities in low-cost countries.

    Lithuanian officials met with the European Commission on Friday, and a national industry representative told the Financial Times.

    The EU is preparing a proceeding with the World Trade Organization, which can take several months.

    Continental Airlines, which operates in 58 countries, is considering shipping products from Lithuania via other countries to further avoid the blockade in China, one said. The company declined to comment.

    Hera, another German supplier with a large factory in Lithuania, is facing difficulties in exporting to China, as are small and medium-sized enterprises operating in China, according to industry representatives. increase. Heller did not immediately respond to the request for comment.

    https://californianewstimes.com/german-business-hits-out-at-china-after-lithuania-trade-row-snares-exports/627142/

  361. @songbird
    Another idea I have is to come up with a historical civilizational index, based on beach bods. Collect sample pics by year, and show them to foreigners to rate.

    Maybe, it is not a fair comparison, but I feel like if you look at the beaches near Tokyo, you can still see a few pretty girls. But, right now, it would be difficult to find them in many places in the West. What does Long Beach look like now?

    Replies: @Nodwink

    Hot women have more financial opportunities now to show off their bodies for paying customers. Showing off your wares at the beach is basically giving away content. I reckon the women making money from “lewds” cover up at the beach.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Nodwink

    Public beach? Ugh, so gross.

  362. @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    Bear in mind that there are two kinds of images. Either when you copy/paste the image address over somewhere else, it will either provide the image desired, or it won't. You've just discovered the second variety. If it doesn't work (as in your case) you need to go back to the original image and right click on it and look for the entry that provides a link to "Search image with google lens". Once there, go to the side where it states "Didn't find what you were looking for? Retry with google images" Now, you've almost hit pay dirt. At the very top you should find something like this:

    Image size:
    575 × 411!
    Find other sizes of this image:
    All sizes - Medium - Large

    I usually search for medium size images. Your work is still not over, since you have to individually find one that presents the image that you're after, and not just its image address. Good luck! (And I'm sure that many readers here have thought that these images that some of us like to present are an easy proposition. :-) )

    Replies: @A123

    From DuckDuckGo, one can “View File” to go to the directly linked source. Make sure to end at “jpf” or another permitted image format.

    Alternately one can deconstruct the DDG link:

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    This is the desired link detail information:

    http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg

    Final changes are:
    — Adding an “s” after http (if needed)
    — Replacing %3A with a “:” colon
    — Replacing %2F with “/” forward slash

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    Hot dog! And to think that all this time when Mr. Hack and yourself were posting all these images I blithely thought little of it.
    I swear I'll never take it for granted again!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

  363. @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    Did that T-shirt have the dog’s face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.
     
    It did not, however, it's quite large and it would be little effort to just wear it backwards (there are even larger sizes too).

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.
     
    Perhaps, and I see your point. I'm starting to see more credence for the dog image now...

    What makes me most suspicious is the “human head”. Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog’s tail.
     
    I'm not able to do a super zoom on the protruding back piece. I can still envision a guy's head with a dover style hat on top...if it's a piece of shrubbery, it's foundation seems out of place, inside the pathway being used. Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It's definitely a cleverly made deception, as we're still discussing its meaning. :-)

    Replies: @A123, @A123

    It did not, however, it’s quite large and it would be little effort to just wear it backwards (there are even larger sizes too).

    Deliberate staging by someone with Ansel Adams’s skill set? Possible, I guess, but tricky. Trampling back and forth through snow is not easily “reset” for additional “takes” so it would take crafty planning & execution.

    I’m not able to do a super zoom on the protruding back piece. I can still envision a guy’s head with a dover style hat on top…if it’s a piece of shrubbery, it’s foundation seems out of place

    The angle of the shrub foundation (or human neck) is difficult. Look at the hat for the light color streaks into the head region. Its a person with a tiny head if it is a Dover hat.

    Fluffy dog tail is in my eyes the easiest explanation.

    Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It’s definitely a cleverly made deception, as we’re still discussing its meaning.

    Alas, I do not have any source material on the image.

    As you have experience with reverse image search you could try that. If the photo has been intentionally brought down in resolution (like a certain piece of Rittenhouse drone footage) to create ambiguity, perhaps you can find an unaltered original.

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
  364. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.
     
    Indeed, a lot of EM fund managers failed to understand that it was a Chinese-driven supercycle that drove commodity prices up and hence 'lifted all boats'. Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.

    add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.
     
    The tech rally we've seen over the past decade, which has made me a lot of money, will continue. There are two structural reasons for this. The first is that technological advancements beget advancements. In other words, as latencies come tumbling down, business models that were previously impossible suddenly become feasible.

    The second reason is a more philosophical. If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology. Still, even if you get the macro trend right you nonetheless have to be disciplined enough to make discerning choices between various companies in the same field.

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.
     

    Yes, I've largely avoided Chinese firms well before Trump for this very reason. I have a cynical understanding of the US, and of world politics in general, but it has helped me in avoiding unnecessary losses. The US doesn't tolerate competitors. But neither does the CCP, which means Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.

    ““In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF.
     

    I've invested in a Vietnamese ETF linked to their broader index funds. It has made me some amount of money, but it's nothing spectacular. I will hold them for the long haul. Vietnam differs from Brazil in that it's a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it's big, so you can have individual firms doing well but I am not optimistic about the broad macro story there. Indexed ETFs should only be bought for highly competitive eocnomies (I only own three: US, Denmark and Vietnam). I would have invested in China if not for the politics.

    P.S. I don't recall you being this engaged in these topics before. A recent change of heart or are you just more open with it?
    I disagree with this quote.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

    Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.

    They won’t develop because their cultures stop them.

    technological advancements beget advancements

    Until the economies that have beem hubs for tech development “decarbonize”, at which point the tech level will stagnate and drop gradually because of a structural reduction in energy use.

    If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology.

    No.

  365. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.
     
    Well, that was more or less my point. In all likelihood there'll be a slow fade into nothingness, with the country becoming a bit more dysfunctional every year (infrastructure rotting away, skilled professionals leaving for greener pastures abroad, the boomers keeping on voting for the same zombie parties and caring about nothing but their own pensions, working population kept down by the burden of having to pay both for the boomers and the danegeld for unassimilable migrants), and less German, until by the end of the century ethnic Germans will be a relic population (20%? 10%? who knows). At the same time everything will become more authoritarian, with occasional bouts of hysteria, when some nutty right-winger kills lefties or shoots up a mosque or synagogue, which will be used as pretext for yet more repression.
    So you don't need to tell me, it's not like I have any illusions about some happy ending.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    I agree with Beckow & your trajectory views. However, let me fix the phrasing:

    Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Franco-Germany with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.

    Open Muslim Borders were spearheaded by Angel Merkel and the World Economic Forum [WEF] of Davos.
    — The problem with Europe is Europe.
    — The problem with Germany is Germany.

    While the trajectory is clear. It is not too late:

    — Europe can follow MAGA with their own MEGA Reindustrialization and reclaim their Christian culture & traditions.
    — Or, they can keep deluding themselves about non-existent American tampering, reject MEGA Reindustrialization, and fall into a cultural abyss.

    I am not even European, but I reject your Euro-surrender. Why do you and your countrymen refuse to fight against the German Elite created tide of Rape-ugees, imported by Merkel and now Scholz? Do your countrymen really want to be more like the French with “no-go” zones closed to Christians?

    I genuinely do not understand the total commitment to “anti-MAGA/MEGA surrender” political parties. You have a sane option in AfD, but they cannot clear 20%.
    _____

    As a side point:

    It is fairly clear that the current EU/EZ is making things worse for almost everyone except a handful of elite European Elites. When will the EU end? And, will it be orderly or chaotic?

    Or, is there a chance for the EU to go MEGA? Structurally this seems impossible to me. I think it has to be fully replaced.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    Germany under AfD would likely be at least as pro-China as the former CDU/CSU government. Alice Weidel of AfD is the only member of Bundestag to speak Mandarin. German nationalist conservatives have been pro-China going back to Weimar/NS period.

    And I don't see how any of this is against the interest of MAGA/MEGA.

    Replies: @A123

  366. @LatW
    @Aedib

    Speaking of "injecting"... right now who is projecting into who's territory? On whose territory is the war raging? For 7 years. Whose children are dying on their native soil? You will argue that Ukraine is projecting into Donbas, but the truth is that the war is on Ukraine's soil. While Russia has declared that war will never be fought on its soil. That's the crux of the problem. These are major double standards. When it comes to smaller nations like Georgians and Chechens you can dictate from the position of strength. But at some point there become too many of us. Until this is resolved there will be strife. As long as you believe your territory is sacred (and I don't blame you for thinking that) while others' territory isn't and is just a patch of soil up for grabs. And that some Russian nationalists believe that ERefia is not a real country but only the historic Russia is the real Russia... everyone's security needs need to be met.

    As to revenge, one does not even need to go into Russia. Hypothetically, every Russian on European soil could turn into a walking target. The idea at this point is still pretty repulsive so please let's not go there.

    And speaking of yesterday's ultimatum, if somebody in the West were intent on hearing it at all, would Russia in turn be open to making certain steps? To return to the situation of 2007? To demilitarise Kenig, stop the activity around Svalbard/Spitzbergen, stop training with the Chinese near European borders? Or is it that only one side has wishes, requests and ultimatums as to their security guarantees?

    Replies: @Aedib

    Your points could be valid until you start to justify terrorists wanting to plant bombs on civilian targets. The link ((https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717)) shows the last try but not the only one. There were several Ukrainian terrorist teams arrested in Crimea which wanted to perform similar activities. And I said that “it could backfire badly” because the other side (Donbass republics + Russia) can perform similar activities but with many more opportunities (given the number of ethnic Russians disseminated into Ukraine). It may happen also in the Baltic countries but then we are walking into a very nasty stage with terrorist campaigns from both sides. I thought that everyone understood the need of avoid such a very dirty steps.
    Anyway, I would not discard anything. I am now remembering the Obama’s regime nurturing the “moderate beheaders” in Syria and the Western propaganda trying to paint them as “democracy fighters”. It would not be the first time these things happens. The USSR did it in the 1970s, The West did it in Chechnya, Libya and Syria in the 2000s-2010s.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Aedib

    Why do you assume the FSB claims are totally accurate?

    , @LatW
    @Aedib


    There were several Ukrainian teams arrested in Crimea...
     
    I'm actually surprised there haven't been more given what happened. But I'm also aware that the Russian services work very well, at least with regards to groups from Dagestan and such. Ukrainians have mostly taken it out on local pro-Russians, that's partly what perpetuates the problem. Because the Kremlin itself never has to pay any consequences. And, btw, I'm not "justifying" such acts. I'm just introducing you to reality, wars are not fought by international treaties of what's right or wrong, wars are fought by people. One had to think about these consequences before firing on the exiting column in Illovaisk.

    I thought that everyone understood the need to avoid such dirty steps
     
    Any dirty steps should be avoided if possible. That's why I would encourage both sides to take off their subjective goggles. That's why it might actually be good that Russia posted these requests (or whatever one should call them). As long as the politicians are talking, the soldiers can have a smoke.

    Regarding arming proxies and freedom fighters. I'm not sure about Syria, but in places like most of Ukraine and the Baltic States those would be people fighting for their own homes and families, regardless of any outside powers.

    Btw, in case of Ukraine the line between a civilian and combatant is very thin. A lot of regular citizens were essentially pushed into military roles and their lives were transformed dramatically and suddenly. The same goes for the Donbas militia to some extent.

    Replies: @Aedib

  367. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    . Mao was only bluffing,
     
    Bluffing and going head-to-head with a nuclear power, where the commanding general wanted to nuke China. And not many years, after using nukes on the Japs, and firebombing dozens of cities.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    where the commanding general wanted to nuke China

    There’s some misunderstanding. Korean War was started by Kim with Stalin’s go-ahead. Mao was left out of the loop.

    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance. The Soviets gave air support but not ground troops in Korea (this was one of the fissures that later led to Sino-Soviet Split).

    Recall that Soviets shares a border with North Korea, and had the Americans escalated would have also escalated.

    The comment that Mao made about “losing 300 million Chinese in a nuclear war and still have 300 million left” was in Moscow 1957, to the Eastern Euro Communist leaders in front of Khrushchev.

    So it was not so much of a bluff against the Americans but to assert “dominance” in the Communist camp.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Remember 300 million was the population level of middle-late Qing, around 1790 (it was 410 million in 1850 and 430 million in 1911).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance.
     
    No doubt, his main goal was Soviet support to take Taiwan.

    I've heard that part of his motivation was also that he wanted to get rid of some portion of ethnic Koreans that were in China. Believe they were drafted to form a significant part of the army. Think it also true that there were Chinese that he wanted to get rid of.

    He seems to have expressed nuclear agnosticism to a few different people, like the Finnish ambassador in 1955. My take is that he wanted it to percolate back to the US. IMO, he was bluffing. (his rhetoric was always kind of aggressive, before rapprochement with Nixon) He probably had his ear to US public sentiment. - not hard to perceive after MacArthur was fired. I don't know if he made such a rhetorical bluff before armistice.

    But, still, from my perspective, it seems amazingly reckless, to have gone directly against the US in 1950, when Truman was a guy who had already authorized the dropping of the bomb. Sure, the Soviets also had it, but, by then, the US probably had many more to spare. Ultimately, I think the Soviets were prepared to write the Korean peninsula off, rather than risk escalation.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  368. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    where the commanding general wanted to nuke China

     

    There's some misunderstanding. Korean War was started by Kim with Stalin's go-ahead. Mao was left out of the loop.

    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance. The Soviets gave air support but not ground troops in Korea (this was one of the fissures that later led to Sino-Soviet Split).

    Recall that Soviets shares a border with North Korea, and had the Americans escalated would have also escalated.

    The comment that Mao made about "losing 300 million Chinese in a nuclear war and still have 300 million left" was in Moscow 1957, to the Eastern Euro Communist leaders in front of Khrushchev.

    So it was not so much of a bluff against the Americans but to assert "dominance" in the Communist camp.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @songbird

    Remember 300 million was the population level of middle-late Qing, around 1790 (it was 410 million in 1850 and 430 million in 1911).

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Yellowface Anon

    It was too many then already, and led to the Taipings. Sailer pointed out the US pop. increased ~100 mln last 50 years, but seats at Harvard/Yale remained constant. Same thing, Qing pop. increased by alot, but seats at 翰林 Hanlin Academy remained constant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlin_Academy

    *One thing I never understood why Japan's post-WWII population increased by 50 percent despite having gone through demographic transition around Taisho era.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  369. Sino-Japanese relations and its importance for Germany

    Germany and Japan have in common that:

    1. Both have its largest trading partner and only source of economic growth in China

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_Japan

    2. Both have a trade relationship with China that’s similar– export of autos and high-end machinery

    There’s been recent sabre-rattling from Abe Shinzo over Taiwan question. And articles like these suggests Germany should, like Japan, take a hawkish attitude towards China…

    https://www.merkur.de/politik/scholz-china-baerbock-deutschland-japan-strategie-aussenpolitik-sicherheit-foreign-policy-zr-91186295.html

    …but a deterioration in Sino-Japanese business relations actually presents an opportunity for German firms to fill the gap in the Chinese market.

    Moreover, recall that Abe is the former PM, while Fumio Kishida has been reticent. Suggesting significant internal fissure in Japanese leadership between the pro-China and pro-US camp.

    There’s a historical precedent, Battle of Baekgang (663), between Tang China and Silla versus Yamato Japan and Baekje.

    Tang won so overwhelmingly that Japan immediately became a devout student of China’s. 漢学 Kangaku “Han learning”, before there was 国学 Kokugaku “Japanese learning” and 蘭学 Rangaku “Dutch learning”.

  370. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    At some point it has become irreversible. Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.
     
    Well, that was more or less my point. In all likelihood there'll be a slow fade into nothingness, with the country becoming a bit more dysfunctional every year (infrastructure rotting away, skilled professionals leaving for greener pastures abroad, the boomers keeping on voting for the same zombie parties and caring about nothing but their own pensions, working population kept down by the burden of having to pay both for the boomers and the danegeld for unassimilable migrants), and less German, until by the end of the century ethnic Germans will be a relic population (20%? 10%? who knows). At the same time everything will become more authoritarian, with occasional bouts of hysteria, when some nutty right-winger kills lefties or shoots up a mosque or synagogue, which will be used as pretext for yet more repression.
    So you don't need to tell me, it's not like I have any illusions about some happy ending.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    …going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take

    My comment was that what we are seeing today could be the form that the bitter end takes. But, yes we agree. And my frequent rage against the lazy, escapist boomers whose misreading of reality and disinterest in the future of their kids (if they even have any) is a generational crime seldom seen in a civilization. (But that offends Mr. Hack pension plans, so I will let it be.)

    On a more optimistic note, supporting A123, there is an old adage that trends continue until they don’t. Things can change, they have changed before. There is still a healthy European core east of Germany, unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse, it would help many to sober up.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse
     
    The term you are looking of for is authoritarian "Power Broker" not capitalist "Powerhouse". Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries. Greece's productivity and employment were crushed by the Germanic school of economics theory.

    The failed, single, Euro [€] Currency experiment needs to end. Any currency union without a fiscal union is inevitably doomed. This would return to the status quo ante. Germanic austerity extremism would once again be checked by DM forex rates versus other currencies. While imperfect, national currencies worked better than the current strait jacket. Small vassal states could still peg to the DM, if they want to subject their citizens to diminished sovereignty.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @German_reader
    @Beckow


    There is still a healthy European core east of Germany

     

    Well, good luck to you (I mean that sincerely). Not much solace for Germans though, Germans who think they could just flee to East Central/Eastern Europe and would be welcome there are delusional imo.
    In retrospect German re-unification was quite the disaster, would have been better if East Germany had stayed independent, it might have developed along Visegrad lines. Now it's just part of an Afro-Arab settlement area.

    It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse
     
    Well, it might not be for that much longer, given Germany's demented energy policy, and the plans for a phasing out of cars with combustion engines in the not too distant future. imo this country is just coasting along on past achievements, but all the foundations are eroding (educational standards in decline, and infrastructure isn't that great either, with the new coalition probably only going to make things worse, e.g. they'll probably go for a partial privatization of the railway system, probably with similar results as in Britain; and of course Germany is hopelessly behind on digitalization).

    Replies: @Dmitry

  371. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.
     
    Indeed, a lot of EM fund managers failed to understand that it was a Chinese-driven supercycle that drove commodity prices up and hence 'lifted all boats'. Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.

    add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.
     
    The tech rally we've seen over the past decade, which has made me a lot of money, will continue. There are two structural reasons for this. The first is that technological advancements beget advancements. In other words, as latencies come tumbling down, business models that were previously impossible suddenly become feasible.

    The second reason is a more philosophical. If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology. Still, even if you get the macro trend right you nonetheless have to be disciplined enough to make discerning choices between various companies in the same field.

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.
     

    Yes, I've largely avoided Chinese firms well before Trump for this very reason. I have a cynical understanding of the US, and of world politics in general, but it has helped me in avoiding unnecessary losses. The US doesn't tolerate competitors. But neither does the CCP, which means Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.

    ““In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF.
     

    I've invested in a Vietnamese ETF linked to their broader index funds. It has made me some amount of money, but it's nothing spectacular. I will hold them for the long haul. Vietnam differs from Brazil in that it's a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it's big, so you can have individual firms doing well but I am not optimistic about the broad macro story there. Indexed ETFs should only be bought for highly competitive eocnomies (I only own three: US, Denmark and Vietnam). I would have invested in China if not for the politics.

    P.S. I don't recall you being this engaged in these topics before. A recent change of heart or are you just more open with it?
    I disagree with this quote.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

    Invest in crypto or drive tractor for Modi

    Those are my 2 paths of not financial advice

    Also fk cow slaughter

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  372. @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take
     
    My comment was that what we are seeing today could be the form that the bitter end takes. But, yes we agree. And my frequent rage against the lazy, escapist boomers whose misreading of reality and disinterest in the future of their kids (if they even have any) is a generational crime seldom seen in a civilization. (But that offends Mr. Hack pension plans, so I will let it be.)

    On a more optimistic note, supporting A123, there is an old adage that trends continue until they don't. Things can change, they have changed before. There is still a healthy European core east of Germany, unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse, it would help many to sober up.

    Replies: @A123, @German_reader

    unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse

    The term you are looking of for is authoritarian “Power Broker” not capitalist “Powerhouse”. Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries. Greece’s productivity and employment were crushed by the Germanic school of economics theory.

    The failed, single, Euro [€] Currency experiment needs to end. Any currency union without a fiscal union is inevitably doomed. This would return to the status quo ante. Germanic austerity extremism would once again be checked by DM forex rates versus other currencies. While imperfect, national currencies worked better than the current strait jacket. Small vassal states could still peg to the DM, if they want to subject their citizens to diminished sovereignty.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @A123


    Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries.
     
    Since Corona started any austerity with mandated mandatory budget deficit limits has been thrown out of the window and ECB has been printing jus as crazy as FED during last year of Trump, so situation is not that static.

    Replies: @A123

  373. German_reader says:
    @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...going to play out until the bitter end, whatever form exactly that may take
     
    My comment was that what we are seeing today could be the form that the bitter end takes. But, yes we agree. And my frequent rage against the lazy, escapist boomers whose misreading of reality and disinterest in the future of their kids (if they even have any) is a generational crime seldom seen in a civilization. (But that offends Mr. Hack pension plans, so I will let it be.)

    On a more optimistic note, supporting A123, there is an old adage that trends continue until they don't. Things can change, they have changed before. There is still a healthy European core east of Germany, unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse, it would help many to sober up.

    Replies: @A123, @German_reader

    There is still a healthy European core east of Germany

    Well, good luck to you (I mean that sincerely). Not much solace for Germans though, Germans who think they could just flee to East Central/Eastern Europe and would be welcome there are delusional imo.
    In retrospect German re-unification was quite the disaster, would have been better if East Germany had stayed independent, it might have developed along Visegrad lines. Now it’s just part of an Afro-Arab settlement area.

    It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse

    Well, it might not be for that much longer, given Germany’s demented energy policy, and the plans for a phasing out of cars with combustion engines in the not too distant future. imo this country is just coasting along on past achievements, but all the foundations are eroding (educational standards in decline, and infrastructure isn’t that great either, with the new coalition probably only going to make things worse, e.g. they’ll probably go for a partial privatization of the railway system, probably with similar results as in Britain; and of course Germany is hopelessly behind on digitalization).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    Germany is hopelessly behind on digitalization
     
    If true, this is a sign of civilization.

    Russia and China are going so fast to digitization, because the government is constructing a surveillance state. Digitalization doesn't benefit normal people, but allows the harvest of information.

    Ideally you want to live in the country where they still use paper and pen for administration.


    -

    If you were refering to producing local hi-tech companies. Germany actually has a boom at the moment (although most of Europe booms).

    For one kind of metric which is popular, companies with valuation of $1 billion, which people call "unicorns". Germany is incredibly worse than UK (London is dominating everyone).


    But Berlin has 3rd highest in Europe and Munich number 9th. (Although per capita, Germany lacking any equivalent of like Oxford/Cambridge, which have almost as much as Munich yet with 10 times less population).

    https://i.imgur.com/kZMwtnY.jpg


    plans for a phasing out of cars with combustion engines in the not too distant future
     
    If Germany is slow with this phasing out, then their auto industry will be bypassed by China and Tesla.

    However, actually Tesla builds a factory Brandenburg and VW builds an EV factory in Wolfsburg. So it's not necessarily all pessimistic? We needed to ask someone in the automobile industry.

    VW has a terrible 2010s. But I've read (just as causal journalism) they won't do so badly this decade and can transition to EVs faster than some other legacy automakers.


    educational standards in decline,
     
    Educational standards are declining everywhere, so from a view of economic competitiveness, it's only important that you decline more slowly than the world average decline.

    So does Germany decline more than the average world?


    partial privatization of the railway system, probably with similar results as in Britain;
     
    Hopefully not. UK trains, implies paying crazy high price, for crazy slow journeys.
  374. @A123
    @Beckow


    unfortunately the German tendency to overwhelm others by being more productive is creating a toxic dynamic of too many succumbing to the comforts that following the German globo-homo-liberal lead provides. It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse
     
    The term you are looking of for is authoritarian "Power Broker" not capitalist "Powerhouse". Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries. Greece's productivity and employment were crushed by the Germanic school of economics theory.

    The failed, single, Euro [€] Currency experiment needs to end. Any currency union without a fiscal union is inevitably doomed. This would return to the status quo ante. Germanic austerity extremism would once again be checked by DM forex rates versus other currencies. While imperfect, national currencies worked better than the current strait jacket. Small vassal states could still peg to the DM, if they want to subject their citizens to diminished sovereignty.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @sudden death

    Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries.

    Since Corona started any austerity with mandated mandatory budget deficit limits has been thrown out of the window and ECB has been printing jus as crazy as FED during last year of Trump, so situation is not that static.

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death



    Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries.
     
    Since Corona started any austerity with mandated mandatory budget deficit limits has been thrown out of the window and ECB has been printing just as crazy as FED during last year of Trump, so situation is not that static
     
    The system may not be austerity extraction, however € wealth transfer continues. Indirect ECB and direct German TARGET2 are a direct score on economic activity Germany has stolen from other EuroZone nations. Add to that the scourge of negative interest rates. Those simultaneously harm both businesses and workers.

    Euro manipulation is just the start of the story. Germany is trying to mug sovereign countries protecting their citizens such as Poland. Authoritarians Merkel and Scholz are using financial threats to keep the Germanic floodgates of Open Muslim Borders flowing.

    It is hard to see anything other than very European, anti-American, WEF hatred. There is palpable Globalist Elite anger at native Christian workers & anything resembling business sanity. The only upside to such rage is, more and more people are appalled by it. The foundation is being laid for MAGA/MEGA Populist resistance. Will it come in time to save Europe? Or, only portions of it?

    PEACE 😇
  375. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel

    I think that because Ukrainians live by and large in compact areas in North America, and there are many more of them that live here than those of Basque ancestry, their activism for the "old country" is on a much higher plane. Do you still have family back home that you're in touch with? Depending on what kind of a family you came from, this too, I think, has a great influence on how you view your attachments to the place of your birth. "Blood is thicker than water" and mother's milk is the best of all.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Here in the US West there are pockets of close-knit Basque communities too. Some have managed to keep the Basque language over generations.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel


    Some have managed to keep the Basque language over generations.
     
    Yet you seem to have chosen the fast track to American assimilation?

    Replies: @Mikel

  376. TRUMP 2024! MAGA! Hell yeah, I want my gibs share too from those \$60 trillion 😉

    Former President Donald Trump said Sunday that China should pay reparations for its role in the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Mr. Trump, a leading figure within the GOP, told Fox News’ Maria Bartiromo that the communist regime should be held responsible for its role in helping spread the coronavirus.

    “China has to pay, they have to do something,” said Mr. Trump. “They have to pay reparations and China doesn’t have the money to pay those reparations.”

    The former president argued that if the worldwide damage of the coronavirus was properly estimated, China would likely owe upwards of \$60 trillion.

    “I believe that worldwide, I’m not just talking about the United States, but worldwide [its] \$60 trillion of damage,” said Mr. Trump. “China doesn’t have \$60 trillion, but they have to do something to make up for what they’ve done.”

    “What they’ve done to the world is so horrible,” the former president added. “It’s been horrible all over the world and it doesn’t stop.”

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/19/trump-demands-china-pay-60t-reparations-pandemic/

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death

    Everyone serious & rational grasps that the source of WUHAN-19 was the CCP's Wuhan Institute of Virology. The NIH has admitted that they funding research at WIV that could have easily created WUHAN-19.

    Mr.Unz conspiracy has fallen apart, because his single source did know about the the NIH sponsored research at WIV. If she did not know about that, she has no credibility in terms of laboratory operating protocol.


    Former President Donald Trump said Sunday that China should pay reparations for its role in the COVID-19 pandemic.
     
    -A- Will the next MAGA president actually obtain money from China? No.

    -B- Is this perfect backstory to send handout grubbing nations to Xi and his CCP Elites while giving them $0.00 from U.S. taxpayers? Yes.

    -C- Does this keep momentum going for MAGA Reindustrialization and CCP disengagement. Yes.

    Low-IQ, #NeverTrump, yahoos will miss the key points B and C. Trump is again playing 3-D Chess and his opposition both domestically and internationally are mentally outclassed, struggling with Ludos.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

     
    https://cdn.publish0x.com/prod/fs/images/f9b9cda37ce7b007e40097699685f6c231cf8c63a1deadf66d20290d467d1c81.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    This isn't about COVID, this is the same as France imposing astronomic reparations on post-revolutionary Haiti or the EIC breaking up India's protoindustry, to permanently destroy its economic potential. This will be nothing but the Morgenthau Plan of the 21st century. But Haiti had Black ex-slaves, while China has a colossal military-industrial complex and nukes. Trumpism winning in 2024 and acting on this threat means WWIII, especially when this is more vital than a Taiwan crisis.

  377. @Yellowface Anon
    @Beckow


    the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Amerika with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders. It is more comfortable for Germans that way, a lot easier.
     
    Very clearly it's swinging to the opposite end of what the Nazis wanted.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Austria was the first country mandate vax. Germany may be headed. But will never happen in Red States America.

  378. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    in London people are outwardly nicer than in Eastern Europe. The British are typically very polite and outwardly friendly

     

    Yes I feel English culture are somewhere in a median. But in England, if you want to ask for help, I feel like a 70% chance they will be friendly and polite, 30% chance they will be unfriendly.

    Whereas in Ireland, you have can some confidence like 90% will be friendly.


    more extroverted cultures, when problems hit, tend to solve them on a more private level whereas the more colder cultures tend to refer to institutions

     

    These friendly, extraverted nationalities like Irish, Mexicans, Philipinos, Spanish, Italians, Brazilians - often correlates to quite difficult or dysfunctional politics though.

    Mexico, Colombia and Philippines might have some of the world's nicest people, but then the countries themselves are some of the most dangerous in the world.

    So I agree with you they are more pleasant cultures, in an individual level. But the societal level will not necessarily be so gentle.

    Most politically dysfunctional countries actually have more friendly people. Africa and Latin America, should be paradises, if you judged from how friendly the people are.

    And then compare some more unfriendly nationalities like Swedish, Finns, Danes. But there they have some of the world's more civilized politics, with the least friendly population. Even Estonians probably have the most successful postsoviet politics.

    I guess there are some exceptions of introverted countries with dysfunctional politics (Russia, Belarus, North Korea), and maybe even we can find some rare example of extroverted countries with functional politics (Australia?)


    Max Korzh whom we talked about in the other thread. He’s all about that somewhat collectivist
     
    Yes I can't think of things I like less like either when young, or now old (crush of too many people, bad rap songs).

    But on the political level he needs a peace prize from the UN. Yuri Dud said something also.


    https://www.instagram.com/p/B0DYRNolgHy/

    Replies: @utu

    “But in England, if you want to ask for help, I feel like a 70% chance they will be friendly and polite, 30% chance they will be unfriendly.” – Yes, 70% friendly and 90% useless. While in NYC they will be 70% unfriendly but 90% useful.

    • Agree: AP
  379. @Aedib
    @LatW

    Your points could be valid until you start to justify terrorists wanting to plant bombs on civilian targets. The link ((https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717)) shows the last try but not the only one. There were several Ukrainian terrorist teams arrested in Crimea which wanted to perform similar activities. And I said that “it could backfire badly” because the other side (Donbass republics + Russia) can perform similar activities but with many more opportunities (given the number of ethnic Russians disseminated into Ukraine). It may happen also in the Baltic countries but then we are walking into a very nasty stage with terrorist campaigns from both sides. I thought that everyone understood the need of avoid such a very dirty steps.
    Anyway, I would not discard anything. I am now remembering the Obama’s regime nurturing the “moderate beheaders” in Syria and the Western propaganda trying to paint them as “democracy fighters”. It would not be the first time these things happens. The USSR did it in the 1970s, The West did it in Chechnya, Libya and Syria in the 2000s-2010s.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

    Why do you assume the FSB claims are totally accurate?

  380. @Aedib
    @LatW

    Your points could be valid until you start to justify terrorists wanting to plant bombs on civilian targets. The link ((https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/02/russia-says-arrests-ukrainian-spy-trio-amid-high-tensions-a75717)) shows the last try but not the only one. There were several Ukrainian terrorist teams arrested in Crimea which wanted to perform similar activities. And I said that “it could backfire badly” because the other side (Donbass republics + Russia) can perform similar activities but with many more opportunities (given the number of ethnic Russians disseminated into Ukraine). It may happen also in the Baltic countries but then we are walking into a very nasty stage with terrorist campaigns from both sides. I thought that everyone understood the need of avoid such a very dirty steps.
    Anyway, I would not discard anything. I am now remembering the Obama’s regime nurturing the “moderate beheaders” in Syria and the Western propaganda trying to paint them as “democracy fighters”. It would not be the first time these things happens. The USSR did it in the 1970s, The West did it in Chechnya, Libya and Syria in the 2000s-2010s.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

    There were several Ukrainian teams arrested in Crimea…

    I’m actually surprised there haven’t been more given what happened. But I’m also aware that the Russian services work very well, at least with regards to groups from Dagestan and such. Ukrainians have mostly taken it out on local pro-Russians, that’s partly what perpetuates the problem. Because the Kremlin itself never has to pay any consequences. And, btw, I’m not “justifying” such acts. I’m just introducing you to reality, wars are not fought by international treaties of what’s right or wrong, wars are fought by people. One had to think about these consequences before firing on the exiting column in Illovaisk.

    I thought that everyone understood the need to avoid such dirty steps

    Any dirty steps should be avoided if possible. That’s why I would encourage both sides to take off their subjective goggles. That’s why it might actually be good that Russia posted these requests (or whatever one should call them). As long as the politicians are talking, the soldiers can have a smoke.

    Regarding arming proxies and freedom fighters. I’m not sure about Syria, but in places like most of Ukraine and the Baltic States those would be people fighting for their own homes and families, regardless of any outside powers.

    Btw, in case of Ukraine the line between a civilian and combatant is very thin. A lot of regular citizens were essentially pushed into military roles and their lives were transformed dramatically and suddenly. The same goes for the Donbas militia to some extent.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @LatW

    I already told you that I prefer to consider these terrorist-wannabe as mavericks. Even the most hardline hierarchs of the Kiev’s regime understand (or they should understand) the consequences of using terrorism as a weapon of choice. Pandora box.

  381. @Yellowface Anon
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Remember 300 million was the population level of middle-late Qing, around 1790 (it was 410 million in 1850 and 430 million in 1911).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    It was too many then already, and led to the Taipings. Sailer pointed out the US pop. increased ~100 mln last 50 years, but seats at Harvard/Yale remained constant. Same thing, Qing pop. increased by alot, but seats at 翰林 Hanlin Academy remained constant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlin_Academy

    *One thing I never understood why Japan’s post-WWII population increased by 50 percent despite having gone through demographic transition around Taisho era.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Japan’s post-WWII population increased by 50 percent despite having gone through demographic transition around Taisho era.
     
    Not that different from Poland whose population also grew 50% after WWII while having similar level of incomes to Japan in the 50s.
  382. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    where the commanding general wanted to nuke China

     

    There's some misunderstanding. Korean War was started by Kim with Stalin's go-ahead. Mao was left out of the loop.

    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance. The Soviets gave air support but not ground troops in Korea (this was one of the fissures that later led to Sino-Soviet Split).

    Recall that Soviets shares a border with North Korea, and had the Americans escalated would have also escalated.

    The comment that Mao made about "losing 300 million Chinese in a nuclear war and still have 300 million left" was in Moscow 1957, to the Eastern Euro Communist leaders in front of Khrushchev.

    So it was not so much of a bluff against the Americans but to assert "dominance" in the Communist camp.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @songbird

    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance.

    No doubt, his main goal was Soviet support to take Taiwan.

    I’ve heard that part of his motivation was also that he wanted to get rid of some portion of ethnic Koreans that were in China. Believe they were drafted to form a significant part of the army. Think it also true that there were Chinese that he wanted to get rid of.

    He seems to have expressed nuclear agnosticism to a few different people, like the Finnish ambassador in 1955. My take is that he wanted it to percolate back to the US. IMO, he was bluffing. (his rhetoric was always kind of aggressive, before rapprochement with Nixon) He probably had his ear to US public sentiment. – not hard to perceive after MacArthur was fired. I don’t know if he made such a rhetorical bluff before armistice.

    But, still, from my perspective, it seems amazingly reckless, to have gone directly against the US in 1950, when Truman was a guy who had already authorized the dropping of the bomb. Sure, the Soviets also had it, but, by then, the US probably had many more to spare. Ultimately, I think the Soviets were prepared to write the Korean peninsula off, rather than risk escalation.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    his main goal was Soviet support to take Taiwan.
    Actually it was to affirm this treaty just signed with Soviets for 1. military industrial support 2. reclaiming Qing dynasty territories of Manchuria Mongolia Xinjiang

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_Treaty_of_Friendship,_Alliance_and_Mutual_Assistance
    (many of these were signature infrastructure programs)

    I’ve heard that part of his motivation was also that he wanted to get rid of some portion of ethnic Koreans that were in China.

    No, it was to use newly surrendered KMT troops as cannon fodder.

    But, still, from my perspective, it seems amazingly reckless
    You have see Chinese perspective:

    1. If the Americans marched only north of 38th Parallel, but not the Taedong River, the PRC probably would not have entered. North of Taedong is historical territory of Balhae Kingdom (698–926), that spoke a Tungusic language and heavily sinicized. So is considered a buffer zone
    https://imgur.com/bDVh9Se
    2. The Americans at the Yalu River would have left Beijing badly exposed. Remember the Chinese Civil War (1945-9) that just ended then was a proxy war between US and Soviets.

    3. This was just when Cold War in Europe was just escalating, and Mao calculated that Capitalist block would not also escalate in Asia

    4. The relative strength of PLA-- as I was saying to German_reader, the American-trained KMT forces that PLA had just defeated and incorporated, performed quite well in Burma
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yenangyaung
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Myitkyina

    5. PLA then had extremely high discipline and élan. UN forces had complete air supremacy and PLA, who can only march at night, did so at a pace of 70 km per night, in subarctic temperature and rugged terrain.

    5. Again it all goes back to Soviets and Stalin, who saw to it that Korean War would not end before his death (1953). Stalin preferred a divided China between CPC and KMT. He was deeply impressed upon meeting Mao in person in 1950, at the same time wary. PLA's sacrifice in Korea earned Soviet support that would be foundational in PRC industrialization


    In 1954, Soviet first secretary Nikita Khrushchev repaired relations between the USSR and the PRC with trade agreements, a formal acknowledgement of Stalin's economic unfairness to the PRC,

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#Socialist_relations_repaired

    Replies: @songbird

  383. Many people seem to think that boomers surrendered, once the multicult regime came in.

    But from talking to boomers, that is not my impression at all. I’ve heard people were putting up posters of monkeys, in answer to affirmative action.

    Rather, I think it was a case of a lot of purges, and instances of killing a chicken to scare a monkey. Eventually, power is consolidated, short of some revolution.

  384. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    accidents, since Amish are not at all risk averse
     
    Agriculture is a really dangerous profession, perhaps even enough to lower life expectancy.

    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.

    Whereas I thought Amish are doing low-capital intensity agriculture, with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

    -

    Of American religions, I feel like the most practically attractive seem still Mormons. You have higher life expectancy and relatively normal incomes. Still they live half in the modern world. But it's sad they can't have caffeine or nicotine.

    Seventh Day Adventists are seeming to have a good life as well, and living relatively normal, but - no meat.


    American pop culture is a decadent malign infection. It always makes me laugh when
     
    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.

    You feel a kind of wind of the future from their popular culture. Which is then surprising when you visit America, and realize that American life is more old fashioned and chaotic in some ways (e.g. with lower levels of digitization, which is a good thing).

    -


    If we look at the 1950s American culture, like fast food. On one hand, it is people with a mentality of teenagers are operating the American cultural production of the 1950s (roller skating girls, carry milkshakes to your car).

    But it is also like they were already perceiving the 21st century. There is a transcendental spirit in their denaturization of food and transport. This is what the technological effect on history is going to do to all of us anyway, but 1950s America has embraced it as a positive.

    For example, using a machine to apply tomato sauce at 2:55. You can't just pour tomato. You need a special machine. Our grandchildren will probably be bidding to buy those when they build Roblox MacDonald's in the metaverse.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZeeLZDWb-s

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.

    Actually horses are quite dangerous themselves. They are after all living creatures which injects a level of unpredictability into the equation. Getting kicked in the head is a quick way to shed this mortal coil. In the construction of the railroads or the canals getting brained by a mule or horse was not an uncommon way to go, though in the construction of the Eire canal the major causes of death were malaria and the careless use of gunpowder for blasting.

    with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

    The thing to remember about the Amish is that they are far from homogeneous. Each community gets to interpret the rules for themselves, and dissatisfaction with a community’s approach will result in a new community forming. Some will use chainsaws while others will stick with bucksaws. Diesel engines tied to Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts, and pulleys will power entire cabinet shops.

    I deal with a lot of Amish sawmills to source timbers and lumber, and they are all over the map. Some communities strictly use horses while others will use tracked equipment (no rubber tires) like dozers. Most of the Amish sawmills that I deal with do own a rubber tired loader for moving lumber bundles and logs, but usually “the English” have to operate them. Though don’t let them fool you, they know quite well how to operate it as well!

    The Amish also do a lot of construction work around me. They roughly take the economic place of Mexicans and central Americans, of which there are few around me, in the building industry. They are quite fearless and hard driving, crawling around a frame, often barefoot, like ants.

    With their lives centered around physical labor in it’s various forms I would expect that their accident rate would be rather high, though all these are dealt with internally by the community.

    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.

    I would say that it’s more of a self fulfilling prophecy. But yes, America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports. I live in a fairly traditional backwater, but even these are being increasingly eroded by the foulness of hyper-individualized pop culture. The self respecting farmers are being replaced more and more by Welfare dependent trailer trash.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Barbarossa

    Mare kills stallion with one kick.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH5JkYQGMfs

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts,
     
    Ok and this how you do not want to reject the modern world.

    It's beautiful to reject industrialized food and smartphones. But not so beautiful rejecting of modern safety guidelines and equipment.


    it’s more of a self fulfilling prophecy
     
    I don't even think it is self-fulfilling.

    For example, in the 20th century, capitalism and communism both go to the same processes in many areas of alienation. But in America with industries like fast food, there is awareness of the trend of mass production faster, and show you the future a few decades preview, that would come anyway. E.g. Ford was faster than Stalin.

    -

    By the way, these documentary clips about American culture are very interesting. Does anyone know what the name of the full documentary film is?

    Here is an interesting clip about alienation in the postwar corporate world of America. It's obviously from the same film that contains the clip I posted above about fast food. I imagine the complete documentary will be interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDmVFacinMg


    America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports.
     
    It's more chaotic and slow to change. But in some ways the latter is healthy and slows the transition to dystopia, that is going faster in other countries. In America, you write the annual taxes with a paper and pen.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  385. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    The current Prime Minister wants to support the anime and manga industry: https://comicbook.com/anime/news/new-japanese-prime-minister-fan-of-demon-slayer-higher-wages-anime-industry/
    Which is the worst policy any self-respecting right-wing can conceive of. If the far-right in Japan coukd take power (they are always at a distance from it) they should just go full Taliban to the cultural industries that started out as American occupiers' operations, not just Chinese-style regulation on the cultural 5th column. The Gundam statue at Odaiba could be a good air force practice target

    What the Japanese far right should promote is literature (Mishima!) that is ultra-nationalist to rekindle the bushido spirit levelled by the Yankees, for a Sinocentric, Pan-Asian era, of course.

    Replies: @Pericles

    The Japanese are perhaps best in the world at apologizing and reflecting on their mistakes. I include their post-WW2 in this assessment.

  386. @Nodwink
    @songbird

    Hot women have more financial opportunities now to show off their bodies for paying customers. Showing off your wares at the beach is basically giving away content. I reckon the women making money from "lewds" cover up at the beach.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Public beach? Ugh, so gross.

  387. @LatW
    @Aedib


    There were several Ukrainian teams arrested in Crimea...
     
    I'm actually surprised there haven't been more given what happened. But I'm also aware that the Russian services work very well, at least with regards to groups from Dagestan and such. Ukrainians have mostly taken it out on local pro-Russians, that's partly what perpetuates the problem. Because the Kremlin itself never has to pay any consequences. And, btw, I'm not "justifying" such acts. I'm just introducing you to reality, wars are not fought by international treaties of what's right or wrong, wars are fought by people. One had to think about these consequences before firing on the exiting column in Illovaisk.

    I thought that everyone understood the need to avoid such dirty steps
     
    Any dirty steps should be avoided if possible. That's why I would encourage both sides to take off their subjective goggles. That's why it might actually be good that Russia posted these requests (or whatever one should call them). As long as the politicians are talking, the soldiers can have a smoke.

    Regarding arming proxies and freedom fighters. I'm not sure about Syria, but in places like most of Ukraine and the Baltic States those would be people fighting for their own homes and families, regardless of any outside powers.

    Btw, in case of Ukraine the line between a civilian and combatant is very thin. A lot of regular citizens were essentially pushed into military roles and their lives were transformed dramatically and suddenly. The same goes for the Donbas militia to some extent.

    Replies: @Aedib

    I already told you that I prefer to consider these terrorist-wannabe as mavericks. Even the most hardline hierarchs of the Kiev’s regime understand (or they should understand) the consequences of using terrorism as a weapon of choice. Pandora box.

  388. @sudden death
    TRUMP 2024! MAGA! Hell yeah, I want my gibs share too from those $60 trillion ;)

    Former President Donald Trump said Sunday that China should pay reparations for its role in the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Mr. Trump, a leading figure within the GOP, told Fox News’ Maria Bartiromo that the communist regime should be held responsible for its role in helping spread the coronavirus.

    “China has to pay, they have to do something,” said Mr. Trump. “They have to pay reparations and China doesn’t have the money to pay those reparations.”

    The former president argued that if the worldwide damage of the coronavirus was properly estimated, China would likely owe upwards of $60 trillion.

    “I believe that worldwide, I’m not just talking about the United States, but worldwide [its] $60 trillion of damage,” said Mr. Trump. “China doesn’t have $60 trillion, but they have to do something to make up for what they’ve done.”

    “What they’ve done to the world is so horrible,” the former president added. “It’s been horrible all over the world and it doesn’t stop.”
     
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/19/trump-demands-china-pay-60t-reparations-pandemic/

    Replies: @A123, @Yellowface Anon

    Everyone serious & rational grasps that the source of WUHAN-19 was the CCP’s Wuhan Institute of Virology. The NIH has admitted that they funding research at WIV that could have easily created WUHAN-19.

    Mr.Unz conspiracy has fallen apart, because his single source did know about the the NIH sponsored research at WIV. If she did not know about that, she has no credibility in terms of laboratory operating protocol.

    Former President Donald Trump said Sunday that China should pay reparations for its role in the COVID-19 pandemic.

    -A- Will the next MAGA president actually obtain money from China? No.

    -B- Is this perfect backstory to send handout grubbing nations to Xi and his CCP Elites while giving them \$0.00 from U.S. taxpayers? Yes.

    -C- Does this keep momentum going for MAGA Reindustrialization and CCP disengagement. Yes.

    Low-IQ, #NeverTrump, yahoos will miss the key points B and C. Trump is again playing 3-D Chess and his opposition both domestically and internationally are mentally outclassed, struggling with Ludos.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

     

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    If Trump actually succeeds and manages to successfully put into action a cohesive agenda and/or decisively turns the tables on his political opposition I will gladly acknowledge Trump as master of both 3-D and even 4-D chess. I will also publicly declare on this forum that A123 was right all along and should be accorded the utmost deference.

    Until that time I'm sticking with my conclusion that Trump, though refreshingly brassy and capable of many true observations, is an opportunistic grifter who enjoys blowing hot air.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @A123

  389. @sudden death
    @A123


    Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries.
     
    Since Corona started any austerity with mandated mandatory budget deficit limits has been thrown out of the window and ECB has been printing jus as crazy as FED during last year of Trump, so situation is not that static.

    Replies: @A123

    Banking Elites in Frankfurt push austerity based Euro policy that favours German exports and decreases activity, especially in periphery countries.

    Since Corona started any austerity with mandated mandatory budget deficit limits has been thrown out of the window and ECB has been printing just as crazy as FED during last year of Trump, so situation is not that static

    The system may not be austerity extraction, however € wealth transfer continues. Indirect ECB and direct German TARGET2 are a direct score on economic activity Germany has stolen from other EuroZone nations. Add to that the scourge of negative interest rates. Those simultaneously harm both businesses and workers.

    Euro manipulation is just the start of the story. Germany is trying to mug sovereign countries protecting their citizens such as Poland. Authoritarians Merkel and Scholz are using financial threats to keep the Germanic floodgates of Open Muslim Borders flowing.

    It is hard to see anything other than very European, anti-American, WEF hatred. There is palpable Globalist Elite anger at native Christian workers & anything resembling business sanity. The only upside to such rage is, more and more people are appalled by it. The foundation is being laid for MAGA/MEGA Populist resistance. Will it come in time to save Europe? Or, only portions of it?

    PEACE 😇

  390. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    In the end Mao decided to enter, partly because the new PRC then badly needed Soviet economic assistance.
     
    No doubt, his main goal was Soviet support to take Taiwan.

    I've heard that part of his motivation was also that he wanted to get rid of some portion of ethnic Koreans that were in China. Believe they were drafted to form a significant part of the army. Think it also true that there were Chinese that he wanted to get rid of.

    He seems to have expressed nuclear agnosticism to a few different people, like the Finnish ambassador in 1955. My take is that he wanted it to percolate back to the US. IMO, he was bluffing. (his rhetoric was always kind of aggressive, before rapprochement with Nixon) He probably had his ear to US public sentiment. - not hard to perceive after MacArthur was fired. I don't know if he made such a rhetorical bluff before armistice.

    But, still, from my perspective, it seems amazingly reckless, to have gone directly against the US in 1950, when Truman was a guy who had already authorized the dropping of the bomb. Sure, the Soviets also had it, but, by then, the US probably had many more to spare. Ultimately, I think the Soviets were prepared to write the Korean peninsula off, rather than risk escalation.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    his main goal was Soviet support to take Taiwan.
    Actually it was to affirm this treaty just signed with Soviets for 1. military industrial support 2. reclaiming Qing dynasty territories of Manchuria Mongolia Xinjiang

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_Treaty_of_Friendship,_Alliance_and_Mutual_Assistance
    (many of these were signature infrastructure programs)

    I’ve heard that part of his motivation was also that he wanted to get rid of some portion of ethnic Koreans that were in China.

    No, it was to use newly surrendered KMT troops as cannon fodder.

    But, still, from my perspective, it seems amazingly reckless
    You have see Chinese perspective:

    1. If the Americans marched only north of 38th Parallel, but not the Taedong River, the PRC probably would not have entered. North of Taedong is historical territory of Balhae Kingdom (698–926), that spoke a Tungusic language and heavily sinicized. So is considered a buffer zone

    View post on imgur.com


    2. The Americans at the Yalu River would have left Beijing badly exposed. Remember the Chinese Civil War (1945-9) that just ended then was a proxy war between US and Soviets.

    3. This was just when Cold War in Europe was just escalating, and Mao calculated that Capitalist block would not also escalate in Asia

    4. The relative strength of PLA– as I was saying to German_reader, the American-trained KMT forces that PLA had just defeated and incorporated, performed quite well in Burma
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yenangyaung
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Myitkyina

    5. PLA then had extremely high discipline and élan. UN forces had complete air supremacy and PLA, who can only march at night, did so at a pace of 70 km per night, in subarctic temperature and rugged terrain.

    5. Again it all goes back to Soviets and Stalin, who saw to it that Korean War would not end before his death (1953). Stalin preferred a divided China between CPC and KMT. He was deeply impressed upon meeting Mao in person in 1950, at the same time wary. PLA’s sacrifice in Korea earned Soviet support that would be foundational in PRC industrialization

    In 1954, Soviet first secretary Nikita Khrushchev repaired relations between the USSR and the PRC with trade agreements, a formal acknowledgement of Stalin’s economic unfairness to the PRC,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#Socialist_relations_repaired

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Kissinger seemed to think that Mao, regardless of his rhetoric, wanted to consolidate the whole peninsula into a puppet state, regardless of US entry or of it crossing any line. IIRC, he made that claim mostly based on China mobilizing before US troops landed. Don't know if he had any other evidence - wouldn't say that it is necessarily proof of anything, as mobilization takes time.

    Seems amazing that MacArthur was in charge of the army, as he had obviously been such a poor performer in the Philippines. Guess that speaks to the effect of the press making him into some kind of hero.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  391. @A123
    @German_reader

    I agree with Beckow & your trajectory views. However, let me fix the phrasing:

    Merkel was just a face, the real issue is that all German institutions, and most Germans, have accepted the reality that Germany will be a full kleine Franco-Germany with immigrant culture, uber-liberal rules, and open borders.

    Open Muslim Borders were spearheaded by Angel Merkel and the World Economic Forum [WEF] of Davos.
    -- The problem with Europe is Europe.
    -- The problem with Germany is Germany.

    While the trajectory is clear. It is not too late:

    -- Europe can follow MAGA with their own MEGA Reindustrialization and reclaim their Christian culture & traditions.
    -- Or, they can keep deluding themselves about non-existent American tampering, reject MEGA Reindustrialization, and fall into a cultural abyss.

    I am not even European, but I reject your Euro-surrender. Why do you and your countrymen refuse to fight against the German Elite created tide of Rape-ugees, imported by Merkel and now Scholz? Do your countrymen really want to be more like the French with "no-go" zones closed to Christians?

    I genuinely do not understand the total commitment to "anti-MAGA/MEGA surrender" political parties. You have a sane option in AfD, but they cannot clear 20%.
    _____

    As a side point:

    It is fairly clear that the current EU/EZ is making things worse for almost everyone except a handful of elite European Elites. When will the EU end? And, will it be orderly or chaotic?

    Or, is there a chance for the EU to go MEGA? Structurally this seems impossible to me. I think it has to be fully replaced.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Germany under AfD would likely be at least as pro-China as the former CDU/CSU government. Alice Weidel of AfD is the only member of Bundestag to speak Mandarin. German nationalist conservatives have been pro-China going back to Weimar/NS period.

    And I don’t see how any of this is against the interest of MAGA/MEGA.

    • Replies: @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Germany under AfD would likely be at least as pro-China as the former CDU/CSU government. Alice Weidel of AfD is the only member of Bundestag to speak Mandarin. German nationalist conservatives have been pro-China going back to Weimar/NS period.

    And I don’t see how any of this is against the interest of MAGA/MEGA.
     
    To increase from 20% up to 50%, AfD needs to get rid of some crazy positions. Becoming properly Christian Populist will involve jettisoning Sinophilic, pro-CCP shills & similar Globalist detritus.

    PEACE 😇
  392. Zemmour keeps sounding better and better: (1)

    Zemmour: Let’s reduce legal immigration to ZERO

    Social benefits should be limited to French nationals and immigration should be brought to zero, presidential candidate Éric Zemmour said on Wednesday on the RTL France television channel’s election program.

    “National solidarity must again become national,” Zemmour said. “It must be what it was before the 1990s: the RSA, family allowances, minimum old-age pensions, and housing subsidies must be limited to the French and no longer available to foreigners.”

    According to polling, most French believe that immigrants are a major burden to France’s social system and most want a halt to immigration to France.

    Despite 100% commitment and willpower. Trump’s immigration initiatives were cynically blocked by:
        — House resistance
        — Senate resistance
        — Judicial resistance
        — Fake Stream Media resistance
    And, of course, A criminally corrupt Special Counsel craving Impeachment via an obviously absurd “Russia, Russia, Russia” witch hunt.

    The good news is that Zemmour faces much less head wind that Trump. However, there will be EU and Deep State opposition. Will the European system(s) allow Zemmour to deliver?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/france/zemmour-lets-reduce-legal-immigration-to-zero/

    • Agree: Aedib
  393. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    Germany under AfD would likely be at least as pro-China as the former CDU/CSU government. Alice Weidel of AfD is the only member of Bundestag to speak Mandarin. German nationalist conservatives have been pro-China going back to Weimar/NS period.

    And I don't see how any of this is against the interest of MAGA/MEGA.

    Replies: @A123

    Germany under AfD would likely be at least as pro-China as the former CDU/CSU government. Alice Weidel of AfD is the only member of Bundestag to speak Mandarin. German nationalist conservatives have been pro-China going back to Weimar/NS period.

    And I don’t see how any of this is against the interest of MAGA/MEGA.

    To increase from 20% up to 50%, AfD needs to get rid of some crazy positions. Becoming properly Christian Populist will involve jettisoning Sinophilic, pro-CCP shills & similar Globalist detritus.

    PEACE 😇

  394. @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry


    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.
     
    Actually horses are quite dangerous themselves. They are after all living creatures which injects a level of unpredictability into the equation. Getting kicked in the head is a quick way to shed this mortal coil. In the construction of the railroads or the canals getting brained by a mule or horse was not an uncommon way to go, though in the construction of the Eire canal the major causes of death were malaria and the careless use of gunpowder for blasting.

    with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

     

    The thing to remember about the Amish is that they are far from homogeneous. Each community gets to interpret the rules for themselves, and dissatisfaction with a community's approach will result in a new community forming. Some will use chainsaws while others will stick with bucksaws. Diesel engines tied to Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts, and pulleys will power entire cabinet shops.

    I deal with a lot of Amish sawmills to source timbers and lumber, and they are all over the map. Some communities strictly use horses while others will use tracked equipment (no rubber tires) like dozers. Most of the Amish sawmills that I deal with do own a rubber tired loader for moving lumber bundles and logs, but usually "the English" have to operate them. Though don't let them fool you, they know quite well how to operate it as well!

    The Amish also do a lot of construction work around me. They roughly take the economic place of Mexicans and central Americans, of which there are few around me, in the building industry. They are quite fearless and hard driving, crawling around a frame, often barefoot, like ants.

    With their lives centered around physical labor in it's various forms I would expect that their accident rate would be rather high, though all these are dealt with internally by the community.

    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.
     
    I would say that it's more of a self fulfilling prophecy. But yes, America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports. I live in a fairly traditional backwater, but even these are being increasingly eroded by the foulness of hyper-individualized pop culture. The self respecting farmers are being replaced more and more by Welfare dependent trailer trash.

    Replies: @utu, @Dmitry

    Mare kills stallion with one kick.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @utu

    Some horse trainers put a hand on the stallion, when it is copulating.

    Seems very bizarre, but makes me wonder if the theories are true about the horse being domesticated from beta males that were cast out of a harem and could not snare their own mares.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  395. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    his main goal was Soviet support to take Taiwan.
    Actually it was to affirm this treaty just signed with Soviets for 1. military industrial support 2. reclaiming Qing dynasty territories of Manchuria Mongolia Xinjiang

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_Treaty_of_Friendship,_Alliance_and_Mutual_Assistance
    (many of these were signature infrastructure programs)

    I’ve heard that part of his motivation was also that he wanted to get rid of some portion of ethnic Koreans that were in China.

    No, it was to use newly surrendered KMT troops as cannon fodder.

    But, still, from my perspective, it seems amazingly reckless
    You have see Chinese perspective:

    1. If the Americans marched only north of 38th Parallel, but not the Taedong River, the PRC probably would not have entered. North of Taedong is historical territory of Balhae Kingdom (698–926), that spoke a Tungusic language and heavily sinicized. So is considered a buffer zone
    https://imgur.com/bDVh9Se
    2. The Americans at the Yalu River would have left Beijing badly exposed. Remember the Chinese Civil War (1945-9) that just ended then was a proxy war between US and Soviets.

    3. This was just when Cold War in Europe was just escalating, and Mao calculated that Capitalist block would not also escalate in Asia

    4. The relative strength of PLA-- as I was saying to German_reader, the American-trained KMT forces that PLA had just defeated and incorporated, performed quite well in Burma
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yenangyaung
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Myitkyina

    5. PLA then had extremely high discipline and élan. UN forces had complete air supremacy and PLA, who can only march at night, did so at a pace of 70 km per night, in subarctic temperature and rugged terrain.

    5. Again it all goes back to Soviets and Stalin, who saw to it that Korean War would not end before his death (1953). Stalin preferred a divided China between CPC and KMT. He was deeply impressed upon meeting Mao in person in 1950, at the same time wary. PLA's sacrifice in Korea earned Soviet support that would be foundational in PRC industrialization


    In 1954, Soviet first secretary Nikita Khrushchev repaired relations between the USSR and the PRC with trade agreements, a formal acknowledgement of Stalin's economic unfairness to the PRC,

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#Socialist_relations_repaired

    Replies: @songbird

    Kissinger seemed to think that Mao, regardless of his rhetoric, wanted to consolidate the whole peninsula into a puppet state, regardless of US entry or of it crossing any line. IIRC, he made that claim mostly based on China mobilizing before US troops landed. Don’t know if he had any other evidence – wouldn’t say that it is necessarily proof of anything, as mobilization takes time.

    Seems amazing that MacArthur was in charge of the army, as he had obviously been such a poor performer in the Philippines. Guess that speaks to the effect of the press making him into some kind of hero.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    Kissinger seemed to think that Mao, regardless of his rhetoric, wanted to consolidate the whole peninsula into a puppet state

    This is absurd, even the Mongols could not overrun Korea without considerable concessions


    A greater amount of "stubborn resistance" was put up by Korea and Song Dynasty towards the Mongol invasions than many others in Eurasia who were swiftly crushed by the Mongols at a lightning pace.

    During the reign of Kublai Khan, King Chungnyeol of Goryeo married one of Kublai's daughters.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Korea

    Seems amazing that MacArthur was in charge of the army.
    Incheon Landing was certainly audacious. But I think this assessment of Patton applies also to him:

    I had heard of him, but I must confess that his swashbuckling personality exceeded my expectation. I did not form any high opinion of him, nor had I any reason to alter this view at any later date. A dashing, courageous, wild, and unbalanced leader, good for operations requiring thrust and push, but at a loss in any operation requiring skill and judgment.[236]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton#As_viewed_by_Allied_leaders

    Bradley would have been a better choice for commander.
  396. @utu
    @Barbarossa

    Mare kills stallion with one kick.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH5JkYQGMfs

    Replies: @songbird

    Some horse trainers put a hand on the stallion, when it is copulating.

    Seems very bizarre, but makes me wonder if the theories are true about the horse being domesticated from beta males that were cast out of a harem and could not snare their own mares.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Animal taming is a funny business. My Jersey cow just freshened and she has a heifer calf with her. I've kept them penned in the barn since it's a muddy slushy mess outside to make milking easier. I've been in and out every day for a couple weeks and while the calf will sniff my jacket while I milk really has no interest in letting me near her despite Mama being as placid as can be (I don't even have to tie her to milk).

    It was the same thing with her previous calf, though he was a bull so was destined for my freezer anyhow. I need to make the heifer docile if I want to sell her as a milker rather than eat her, so I'll probably have to pen her up and bottle feed her at least part of the time to teach her that humans are a Very Good Thing. Otherwise, Mama gives her all she needs and she has no use for me. s

    It's been rather surprising to me that in a breed as deeply domesticated as a Jersey cow that taming really runs quite shallow. It's less baked in than one would expect without the proper imprinting at an early age.

    Replies: @sher singh, @Dmitry

  397. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Kissinger seemed to think that Mao, regardless of his rhetoric, wanted to consolidate the whole peninsula into a puppet state, regardless of US entry or of it crossing any line. IIRC, he made that claim mostly based on China mobilizing before US troops landed. Don't know if he had any other evidence - wouldn't say that it is necessarily proof of anything, as mobilization takes time.

    Seems amazing that MacArthur was in charge of the army, as he had obviously been such a poor performer in the Philippines. Guess that speaks to the effect of the press making him into some kind of hero.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Kissinger seemed to think that Mao, regardless of his rhetoric, wanted to consolidate the whole peninsula into a puppet state

    This is absurd, even the Mongols could not overrun Korea without considerable concessions

    A greater amount of “stubborn resistance” was put up by Korea and Song Dynasty towards the Mongol invasions than many others in Eurasia who were swiftly crushed by the Mongols at a lightning pace.

    During the reign of Kublai Khan, King Chungnyeol of Goryeo married one of Kublai’s daughters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Korea

    Seems amazing that MacArthur was in charge of the army.
    Incheon Landing was certainly audacious. But I think this assessment of Patton applies also to him:

    I had heard of him, but I must confess that his swashbuckling personality exceeded my expectation. I did not form any high opinion of him, nor had I any reason to alter this view at any later date. A dashing, courageous, wild, and unbalanced leader, good for operations requiring thrust and push, but at a loss in any operation requiring skill and judgment.[236]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton#As_viewed_by_Allied_leaders

    Bradley would have been a better choice for commander.

    • Thanks: songbird
  398. @A123
    @Mr. Hack

    From DuckDuckGo, one can "View File" to go to the directly linked source. Make sure to end at "jpf" or another permitted image format.

    Alternately one can deconstruct the DDG link:

    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    This is the desired link detail information:

    http%3A%2F%2Fwallup.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2F232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg

    Final changes are:
    -- Adding an "s" after http (if needed)
    -- Replacing %3A with a ":" colon
    -- Replacing %2F with "/" forward slash

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    https://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/232667-Calvin_and_Hobbes-comics.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Hot dog! And to think that all this time when Mr. Hack and yourself were posting all these images I blithely thought little of it.
    I swear I’ll never take it for granted again!

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    Another good one that I came across recently:

    https://www.simpsoncounty.ms/sites/default/files/field/image/316144_image.jpg

    Smollett could not “hoodwink” Lady Justice. :-)

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    He is being frickin autistic.

    Just notice your source file ends in .jpg or .png. The Unz review software does all of the rest.

    Replies: @A123

  399. @A123
    @sudden death

    Everyone serious & rational grasps that the source of WUHAN-19 was the CCP's Wuhan Institute of Virology. The NIH has admitted that they funding research at WIV that could have easily created WUHAN-19.

    Mr.Unz conspiracy has fallen apart, because his single source did know about the the NIH sponsored research at WIV. If she did not know about that, she has no credibility in terms of laboratory operating protocol.


    Former President Donald Trump said Sunday that China should pay reparations for its role in the COVID-19 pandemic.
     
    -A- Will the next MAGA president actually obtain money from China? No.

    -B- Is this perfect backstory to send handout grubbing nations to Xi and his CCP Elites while giving them $0.00 from U.S. taxpayers? Yes.

    -C- Does this keep momentum going for MAGA Reindustrialization and CCP disengagement. Yes.

    Low-IQ, #NeverTrump, yahoos will miss the key points B and C. Trump is again playing 3-D Chess and his opposition both domestically and internationally are mentally outclassed, struggling with Ludos.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

     
    https://cdn.publish0x.com/prod/fs/images/f9b9cda37ce7b007e40097699685f6c231cf8c63a1deadf66d20290d467d1c81.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    If Trump actually succeeds and manages to successfully put into action a cohesive agenda and/or decisively turns the tables on his political opposition I will gladly acknowledge Trump as master of both 3-D and even 4-D chess. I will also publicly declare on this forum that A123 was right all along and should be accorded the utmost deference.

    Until that time I’m sticking with my conclusion that Trump, though refreshingly brassy and capable of many true observations, is an opportunistic grifter who enjoys blowing hot air.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Barbarossa

    Trump won't but Trumpists will because they follow the Conservative political tradition (changed for populist ends) and they have a political vision.

    Replies: @A123

    , @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Your accusation of "grifting" is libelous & unsupportable.

    There is ZERO evidence Trump was grifting in in his 1st Term. There is undeniable evidence he was up impossible odds.
    ____

    If you are correct. Prove it. Provide fact based actions that clear the fillowing:

        -1- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come House resistance?

        -2- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Senate resistance?

        -3- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Judicial resistance?

        -4- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Fake Stream Media resistance?

        -5- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come the criminally corrupt Special Counsel Mueller?
    ____

    To be non-libelous you must provide a course of action that could have worked to simultaneously overcome all 5 obstacles.

    Or, you can withdraw your MBNBC inspired accusation, and admit what actually occurred. Trump failed to achieve the impossible. There was no viable plan for total success available to his 1st Term.

    Trump was successful at obtaining what was available to be gained. Sadly, that us much less than what we would have liked. The 30 Year War was not won or lost in the first 4 years. This is a much better analogy in terms of time frame, hopefully less so in events. SJW Wokeness was slowly developed by enemies of freedom over decades.
    ____

    You should ignore Yellowface TROLL. He is ​fact free, highly emotional and, (lets be honest) "butt hurt" that he catastrophically failed a similar challenge. He is a low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo who exists to be inaccurate and libelous.

    Feel free to laugh at his comic flailing. I certainly do.

    # LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  400. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    fund managers had lost a lot of money in companies like Petrobras in the 2010s.
     
    Indeed, a lot of EM fund managers failed to understand that it was a Chinese-driven supercycle that drove commodity prices up and hence 'lifted all boats'. Most of these EMs had and still have weak fundamentals.

    add a lot of weighting for these Chinese internet companies.
     
    The tech rally we've seen over the past decade, which has made me a lot of money, will continue. There are two structural reasons for this. The first is that technological advancements beget advancements. In other words, as latencies come tumbling down, business models that were previously impossible suddenly become feasible.

    The second reason is a more philosophical. If your understanding of what drives prosperity in the long run is close to mine, namely, technological progress and innovation, then you have to bet on a secular upward trend in anything relating to technology. Still, even if you get the macro trend right you nonetheless have to be disciplined enough to make discerning choices between various companies in the same field.

    However, these companies like Alibaba are especially vulnerable to Chinese politics. So the stock is pricing badly, partly due to fear of expropriation and political purges.
     

    Yes, I've largely avoided Chinese firms well before Trump for this very reason. I have a cynical understanding of the US, and of world politics in general, but it has helped me in avoiding unnecessary losses. The US doesn't tolerate competitors. But neither does the CCP, which means Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.

    ““In emerging markets, you can’t buy the broad indexes. The broad indexes are broken because of heavy exposure to the legacy economy, exposure to the state-owned banks, the oil companies, the corruption,” he said, citing Brazil’s Petrobras scandal and its impact on Vanguard’s FTSE Emerging Markets ETF.
     

    I've invested in a Vietnamese ETF linked to their broader index funds. It has made me some amount of money, but it's nothing spectacular. I will hold them for the long haul. Vietnam differs from Brazil in that it's a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it's big, so you can have individual firms doing well but I am not optimistic about the broad macro story there. Indexed ETFs should only be bought for highly competitive eocnomies (I only own three: US, Denmark and Vietnam). I would have invested in China if not for the politics.

    P.S. I don't recall you being this engaged in these topics before. A recent change of heart or are you just more open with it?
    I disagree with this quote.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Jatt Aryaa, @Dmitry

    Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.

    A problem, I think, with investment in China is that it is still an authoritarian dictatorship.

    So, there is a limit to your property rights in your investment, and to the property rights of the company itself. Moreover, this can be more of a problem for internet companies, which sell information, than for traditional industries.

    If you buy shares in Alibaba, not only do you not really have ownership (https://thediplomat.com/2014/09/no-one-who-bought-alibaba-stock-actually-owns-alibaba), but also even Jack Ma doesn’t own what he has (https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2021/06/07/the-sad-end-of-jack-ma-inc ).

    Life in China will be such a game where you are not sure exactly that you own what you are supposed to own, until you get the Canadian investment citizenship with the multi-million dollar penthouse in Vancouver.

    I’m not any expert, but I imagine that even professional workers in Wall Street can only give you a few interpretations for Alibaba. “This is undervalued because of the China risk is overvalued”. “This is an accurate price because of the China risk”. Or – “This is overvalued because of the China risk is undervalued”.

    In no scenario will China risk suddenly disappear, so it will just not have a long term valuation like an equivalent Western company.

    Brazil in that it’s a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it’s big

    Again I’m not an expert, but I would assume the problems with Brazil, are political or society problems.

    This is like Russia. You can ask why GDP of the Russian Federation is lower today that it was in 2008. That’s Russia’s economy has zero GDP growth over the last 12 years.

    But another question (easier) you can ask, are the authorities worried that the economy is smaller today, than 12 years ago? Should they be worried? Is it a serious problem? No, they don’t seem to really care. Maybe it is a problem for the little people, not for the big people.

    There is a equilibrium in the country between control and creating conditions for economic growth.

    Kasⓟersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world’s successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.

    At some point, you might think about choice between export growth of the company, and its integration with FSB, GRU, etc. However, what if the raison d’être of the company, is this integration.

    Above a certain level, the control is a higher priority that the economic growth (and centralized middle income countries like Russia has already more than enough money for the rulers to have an incomprehensible level of wealth).

    Pavel Durov says he can’t even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn’t climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d’être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.

    I would have invested in China if not for the politics

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    Kaspersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world’s successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.
     
    Most MIC-related companies are integrated with their respective countries intelligence networks, or that of a broader alliance structure, e.g. NATO.

    I think a bigger problem for Russian firms is that Chinese MIC is now virtually on par with Russia in most areas except engines. In areas like avionics or electronics, it is already ahead. India is ramping up indigenisation efforts along with a greater shift towards US imports. These are traditionally the two main clients of Russian MIC, which must necessarily affect companies downstream such as Kaspersky. The domestic market cannot compensate for weakness of export orders.

    From what I have read, a recurring complaint that the Indians had is that Russian equipment is often good but after-sale services like maintenance has been much poorer. This is apparently not just an Indian complaint.

    More broadly, I think Russia is still too invested in "old" industries. These still matter, but they are not fast-growing. As I noted earlier, my conception of long-term prosperity is innovation and technological progress. The fastest-growing areas are going to be connected to where there is most innovation. That is where China and USA are the strongest, with Europe picking up pace in recent years (though still making up for lost ground).


    Pavel Durov says he can’t even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.
     
    To the question of why Russia can't have these firms, you are providing the answer. It's not lack of capability, it's a social/political choice to some extent.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn’t climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d’être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.
     
    I agree with this, but I don't think it explains it all. There is a human capital component to this puzzle. But yes, Latinx elites seem to be more content to enjoying the good life by relying on traditional industries such as agricultural exports, tied with land ownership. This is convenient, since it is hereditary and thus requires little effort or innovation. It also seamlessly blocks outsiders who could shake up these industries, slowing or outright blocking competition, which provides monopoly rents. Bad for the country but good for the landed gentry. That's a major reason why Argentina fell behind the West, to relate to a previous discussion.

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.
     
    The entire stock market is massively overvalued. I haven't invested in anything since 2019. I toyed with the idea of investing in BYD back in 2015, and I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake in not doing so. So far it appears I did, but my horizon is decades and not years, and I believed back then as now that the political risk would eventually gain the upper hand. OTOH, BYD is unique among Chinese firms in that US investors control a very large share, which might either make it less risky or more so (from the PoV of Beijing), depending on your view.

    More generally, I think a bigger problem is that companies go public later and later in their life cycle, which limits the earliest and strongest gains to a few insider private equity firms and VCs. That's almost a democratic problem. Companies should go public as early as possible, which would allow the returns to be more evenly distributed among a larger share of the population. This is a major problem in Western capitalism that has shifted significantly in recent decades and remains underreported. Apple and Microsoft, by comparison, went public much faster and thus made it easier for normal investors to gain from stock ownership far earlier. These days, unicorns stay private for longer in part since private VC capital is far more ubiquitous, with the downside that gains are concentrated in a few hands of insiders.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @LatW

  401. @songbird
    @AP


    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.
     
    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges, and ingress to outsiders, I might agree with you, but they don't.

    The English also tried to ethnically cleanse the French from the Maritimes, deporting about 80%.
     
    Brutal, but sound strategic sense, for the victor. The French lost, or they may have done the same to parts of the Thirteen Colonies.

    They certainly weren’t as bad as the Aztecs but the civilized Indians of the Andes also sacrificed people on a large scale:
     
    There are a lot of complicating factors here. They were probably trying to maximize moral outcomes (such as survivability in famine), with improper science.

    Thais practiced human sacrifice into the 1870s. They stopped by being exposed to the ideas of outsiders and wanting to emulate them, rather than having their culture destroyed.

    Peru child sacrifice discovery may be largest in history
     
    The Tophet at Carthage had 20,000 urns filled with the bones of children and animals. Some lack of clarity there, but I suspect it was larger.

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.
     
    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.

    At its core, real degeneracy is about the decline in virtue that average men and women and children have. It is somewhat separate from the power dynamic scenario or from warfare.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.

    Replies: @AP

    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges

    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England. Temperature is not much different from northern New England – Burlington VT and Portland ME have annual mean temperatures only 3 degrees warmer F than does Montreal. These regions literally border each other.

    Southern New England is considerably warmer; this would suggest a larger native population than Quebec.

    A google search indicated numerous massacres of Indians by English colonists (and vice versa). None of Indians by French in Quebec (Indians massacred some French settlers but the French governor stopped efforts at retaliation):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.

    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.

    1890 Europeans wouldn’t have killed millions of fellow Europeans in concentration camps. In 1914-1918 Europeans slaughtered each other on the battlefield by the millions but did not kill women and children in concentration camps. The mid 20th century was degeneracy.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.

    These places were not degenerate, as Germany was at the time. Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn’t have, even if given the chance to.

    Killing millions in concentration camps, making lampshades out of human skin, engaging in sadistic murder or gang raping noble women as Cheka did – is more degenerate than cross-dressing while reading childrens’ books.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @AP

    NERD, stop. Also murder is based but gayness is not|| Your nerdtales & argument have 0 IRL impact.
    The 3 comment per hour rule was made for niggas like you, r u opening gas station in QC or maine?

    Incredibly homosex that u latch onto a topic and don't stop past point of reasonableness||U hv autism.
    Thoughts anyone? https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1439993130728583177?s=20

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @songbird
    @AP


    making lampshades out of human skin
     
    Very dubious, not unlike the tales of Germans bayoneting babies in WWI or crucifying an Allied soldier. Don't get what the point is of adding these macabre details. You should hear what some of the racial hustlers say happened during slavery. (Too scatological for Unz)

    Moral relativism seems the ultimate in degeneracy. But I suggest that there should be another term - "WW2 relativism", which is the real ultimate in degeneracy, as I think "moral relativism" doesn't have the same natural appeal to the masses. It does not have countless films and TV that promote it, unlike WW2. People have called "The History Channel", "The WW2 Channel" for good reason.

    What is the moral utility of setting up WW2 as our measuring stick for ethics? I'll grant it has a lot of purchase on people's minds because of the great mortality of it, but what is the effective good of it? We live in the age of the atom, WW2 would not have happened, under those conditions. (not to mention others that predominate now.) So, it is an impossible standard to reach, short of some civilizational collapse or apocalypse, which did not happen during WW2.

    But let's not stop there. What is the effective evil of over-promoting it and using it as our moral yardstick? It is honestly too large for me to fully enumerate here. But it ranges from the small (people with the name "Hitler" desiring an end to their lines), to the very great (the complete erosion of the ethnocentrism of Europeans - ethnocentrism being the only workable defense against invasion - and Europeans easily being some of the greatest and worthiest peoples who have ever lived)

    Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn’t have, even if given the chance to.
     
    Well, we will never find out, as Poland did not have the same population as Germany and could not have attempted to annex any of its neighbors, solo. It did participate in annexation opportunistically, though.
    ___

    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England.
     
    The whole latitudinal range of Quebec is livable in some fashion, as is proved by the Inuit living there. I think you mean arable?

    It is important to understand that corn in 1620 was not the wonder crop that it is today. It was domesticated in Mesoamerica and not well-adapted for cold Northern latitudes as Khrushchev later found out, to his dismay. By now, we do have better varieties, with higher yields. Ireland did not adopt corn, but it did adopt the real wonder crop, the potato.

    OTOH, game is very cold-adopted. Look at a moose breathe out in the freezing cold and likely you will not see a fog. Ducks can stand comfortably on ice, all day long, though they do fly south to get to open water in order to eat, nevertheless, there are many fowl in Canada in the warmer months, hence the name "Canada goose." Quebec, which is 8x larger, no doubt has much more game.

    In the neolithic in Northern Europe, farming was evidently very limited, and hardscrabble. They didn't have the numbers to eliminate the hunter-gatherers but lived in the same countries for thousands of years. The NE of North America must have been filled with hunter-gatherers, especially when you consider Indians were missing many technologies from the neolithic, like pigs and goats. Even the people who grew corn, were likely mainly hunter-gatherers, getting many of their calories from game.

    If anything, I think relative warmth would count against them, as facilitating various factors for disease. Into the early 1900s, the warmer months in Boston were rife with diseases that killed infants. It was not uncommon for the richer people to leave the city, partly to escape the disease. One of my great grandfathers lost seven or eight of his children.

    Replies: @AP

  402. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    If Trump actually succeeds and manages to successfully put into action a cohesive agenda and/or decisively turns the tables on his political opposition I will gladly acknowledge Trump as master of both 3-D and even 4-D chess. I will also publicly declare on this forum that A123 was right all along and should be accorded the utmost deference.

    Until that time I'm sticking with my conclusion that Trump, though refreshingly brassy and capable of many true observations, is an opportunistic grifter who enjoys blowing hot air.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    Trump won’t but Trumpists will because they follow the Conservative political tradition (changed for populist ends) and they have a political vision.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yellowface Anon

    Trump is of course Populist, not Conservative. Here is a good example:

    Trump successfully ended the Wars in Afghanistan and Syria. The functional end can be objectively seen via reduction of casualties to near zero. And, he avoided Gen. SJW Milley's trap that Not-The-President Biden walked into.

    The true Conservative DNC, led by NeoConDemocrats, wants war to expand. They wish to over deploy the U.S. military in a reckless manner that inevitably leads to shame & failure. Obama's "Surge" proved that. (1)


    In December 2009, President Barack Obama ordered a surge force of 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, ... the plan he decided on was based on questionable strategic logic. Stabilization of Afghanistan was not a critical US interest, and even if it was, the surge that Obama ordered was structured in a way that portended failure.
     
    How would you describe the SALT change in the current "Build Back Bloated" bill? (2)

    As result of its large SALT tax cut, the House bill’s income and payroll tax provisions together would provide a tax cut to nearly 80 percent of households with income between $500,000 and $1 million (whose tax cuts would average $8,800) and to 70 percent of households with incomes over $1 million (whose tax cuts would average $16,960), the Tax Policy Center estimates. There’s no way to justify these tax cuts as “middle-class” tax relief. They are particularly egregious given that BBB aims to provide the most help for low- and middle-income households while reducing tax advantages for wealthy households.
     
    The DNC is cutting taxes for the richest. That makes "#NeverTrump Conservatives" a coherent side. To be a "Conservative SJW Globalist" is to be anti-Trump.
    ___

    Left, right, conservative, and liberal have all taken a beating and are now near useless. Rather than arguing over obsolete terminology, there is a better way forward. Using words that have have consistent measning.

    The best option available is Globalist/Populist. This works near perfectly in the U.S. plus places like Poland and Hungary.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    _____________________

    (1) https://www.militarystrategymagazine.com/article/was-obamas-2009-afghanistan-surge-based-on-sound-strategy/

    (2) https://www.cbpp.org/blog/senate-should-improve-salt-provision-in-house-bbb-bill
  403. @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack

    Here in the US West there are pockets of close-knit Basque communities too. Some have managed to keep the Basque language over generations.

    https://youtu.be/PZy8NqecHmQ

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Some have managed to keep the Basque language over generations.

    Yet you seem to have chosen the fast track to American assimilation?

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack


    Yet you seem to have chosen the fast track to American assimilation?
     
    Assimilation to a foreign culture is never fast or easy.

    I'm not even sure how assimilable I am. We Europeans tend to be more cynical and less naive than Americans. Something like QAnon or the tiki-torchers is difficult to imagine in Europe. Although perhaps our lack of naivete makes us be less entrepreneurial. Americans are much better at turning simple ideas into good business opportunities. Those of us who were born in Western Europe also tend to be more liberal than what's normal in red-state America, the best part of the country as far as I'm concerned, but sometimes difficult to adapt culturally to.

    Recent immigrants will always lack the soil and blood component of patriotism but I actually think that we can be more patriotic in other aspects. This is not just the country where we happened to be born but the one we chose to lead our lives and that of our children in. We are heavily invested in this country's future so we are much less likely to want to radically transform it, feel ashamed of its past or seek to outright destroy it, as some old-stock Americans are prone to. Whenever I see people of immigrant background join those movements, I marvel at how patient Americans are by not deporting them.

    That is not to mean in any way that Americans, immigrant or not, should defend everything America stands for. I think that in the past couple of decades the US has turned into a source of pointless violence and destabilization in the world, that does nothing to improve its own citizens' lives, and should better return to a much more isolationist policy. IOW, I am pretty much a MAGA guy, without A123's naive personality cult.

    Replies: @A123

  404. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Yellowface Anon

    It was too many then already, and led to the Taipings. Sailer pointed out the US pop. increased ~100 mln last 50 years, but seats at Harvard/Yale remained constant. Same thing, Qing pop. increased by alot, but seats at 翰林 Hanlin Academy remained constant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlin_Academy

    *One thing I never understood why Japan's post-WWII population increased by 50 percent despite having gone through demographic transition around Taisho era.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Japan’s post-WWII population increased by 50 percent despite having gone through demographic transition around Taisho era.

    Not that different from Poland whose population also grew 50% after WWII while having similar level of incomes to Japan in the 50s.

  405. @sudden death
    TRUMP 2024! MAGA! Hell yeah, I want my gibs share too from those $60 trillion ;)

    Former President Donald Trump said Sunday that China should pay reparations for its role in the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Mr. Trump, a leading figure within the GOP, told Fox News’ Maria Bartiromo that the communist regime should be held responsible for its role in helping spread the coronavirus.

    “China has to pay, they have to do something,” said Mr. Trump. “They have to pay reparations and China doesn’t have the money to pay those reparations.”

    The former president argued that if the worldwide damage of the coronavirus was properly estimated, China would likely owe upwards of $60 trillion.

    “I believe that worldwide, I’m not just talking about the United States, but worldwide [its] $60 trillion of damage,” said Mr. Trump. “China doesn’t have $60 trillion, but they have to do something to make up for what they’ve done.”

    “What they’ve done to the world is so horrible,” the former president added. “It’s been horrible all over the world and it doesn’t stop.”
     
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/19/trump-demands-china-pay-60t-reparations-pandemic/

    Replies: @A123, @Yellowface Anon

    This isn’t about COVID, this is the same as France imposing astronomic reparations on post-revolutionary Haiti or the EIC breaking up India’s protoindustry, to permanently destroy its economic potential. This will be nothing but the Morgenthau Plan of the 21st century. But Haiti had Black ex-slaves, while China has a colossal military-industrial complex and nukes. Trumpism winning in 2024 and acting on this threat means WWIII, especially when this is more vital than a Taiwan crisis.

  406. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    There is still a healthy European core east of Germany

     

    Well, good luck to you (I mean that sincerely). Not much solace for Germans though, Germans who think they could just flee to East Central/Eastern Europe and would be welcome there are delusional imo.
    In retrospect German re-unification was quite the disaster, would have been better if East Germany had stayed independent, it might have developed along Visegrad lines. Now it's just part of an Afro-Arab settlement area.

    It would actually be helpful if Germany would not be an economic example and a powerhouse
     
    Well, it might not be for that much longer, given Germany's demented energy policy, and the plans for a phasing out of cars with combustion engines in the not too distant future. imo this country is just coasting along on past achievements, but all the foundations are eroding (educational standards in decline, and infrastructure isn't that great either, with the new coalition probably only going to make things worse, e.g. they'll probably go for a partial privatization of the railway system, probably with similar results as in Britain; and of course Germany is hopelessly behind on digitalization).

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Germany is hopelessly behind on digitalization

    If true, this is a sign of civilization.

    Russia and China are going so fast to digitization, because the government is constructing a surveillance state. Digitalization doesn’t benefit normal people, but allows the harvest of information.

    Ideally you want to live in the country where they still use paper and pen for administration.

    If you were refering to producing local hi-tech companies. Germany actually has a boom at the moment (although most of Europe booms).

    For one kind of metric which is popular, companies with valuation of \$1 billion, which people call “unicorns”. Germany is incredibly worse than UK (London is dominating everyone).

    But Berlin has 3rd highest in Europe and Munich number 9th. (Although per capita, Germany lacking any equivalent of like Oxford/Cambridge, which have almost as much as Munich yet with 10 times less population).

    plans for a phasing out of cars with combustion engines in the not too distant future

    If Germany is slow with this phasing out, then their auto industry will be bypassed by China and Tesla.

    However, actually Tesla builds a factory Brandenburg and VW builds an EV factory in Wolfsburg. So it’s not necessarily all pessimistic? We needed to ask someone in the automobile industry.

    VW has a terrible 2010s. But I’ve read (just as causal journalism) they won’t do so badly this decade and can transition to EVs faster than some other legacy automakers.

    educational standards in decline,

    Educational standards are declining everywhere, so from a view of economic competitiveness, it’s only important that you decline more slowly than the world average decline.

    So does Germany decline more than the average world?

    partial privatization of the railway system, probably with similar results as in Britain;

    Hopefully not. UK trains, implies paying crazy high price, for crazy slow journeys.

  407. @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry


    But much of the danger , is from the capital goods in the farm. This is like tractor and the heavy equipment. It is the agricultural machines, which will likely kill you.
     
    Actually horses are quite dangerous themselves. They are after all living creatures which injects a level of unpredictability into the equation. Getting kicked in the head is a quick way to shed this mortal coil. In the construction of the railroads or the canals getting brained by a mule or horse was not an uncommon way to go, though in the construction of the Eire canal the major causes of death were malaria and the careless use of gunpowder for blasting.

    with religious prohibition against the modern (dangerous) machinery?

     

    The thing to remember about the Amish is that they are far from homogeneous. Each community gets to interpret the rules for themselves, and dissatisfaction with a community's approach will result in a new community forming. Some will use chainsaws while others will stick with bucksaws. Diesel engines tied to Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts, and pulleys will power entire cabinet shops.

    I deal with a lot of Amish sawmills to source timbers and lumber, and they are all over the map. Some communities strictly use horses while others will use tracked equipment (no rubber tires) like dozers. Most of the Amish sawmills that I deal with do own a rubber tired loader for moving lumber bundles and logs, but usually "the English" have to operate them. Though don't let them fool you, they know quite well how to operate it as well!

    The Amish also do a lot of construction work around me. They roughly take the economic place of Mexicans and central Americans, of which there are few around me, in the building industry. They are quite fearless and hard driving, crawling around a frame, often barefoot, like ants.

    With their lives centered around physical labor in it's various forms I would expect that their accident rate would be rather high, though all these are dealt with internally by the community.

    I feel like Americans have a talent for perceiving the future, and this is the secret of their cultural export.
     
    I would say that it's more of a self fulfilling prophecy. But yes, America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports. I live in a fairly traditional backwater, but even these are being increasingly eroded by the foulness of hyper-individualized pop culture. The self respecting farmers are being replaced more and more by Welfare dependent trailer trash.

    Replies: @utu, @Dmitry

    Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts,

    Ok and this how you do not want to reject the modern world.

    It’s beautiful to reject industrialized food and smartphones. But not so beautiful rejecting of modern safety guidelines and equipment.

    it’s more of a self fulfilling prophecy

    I don’t even think it is self-fulfilling.

    For example, in the 20th century, capitalism and communism both go to the same processes in many areas of alienation. But in America with industries like fast food, there is awareness of the trend of mass production faster, and show you the future a few decades preview, that would come anyway. E.g. Ford was faster than Stalin.

    By the way, these documentary clips about American culture are very interesting. Does anyone know what the name of the full documentary film is?

    Here is an interesting clip about alienation in the postwar corporate world of America. It’s obviously from the same film that contains the clip I posted above about fast food. I imagine the complete documentary will be interesting.

    America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports.

    It’s more chaotic and slow to change. But in some ways the latter is healthy and slows the transition to dystopia, that is going faster in other countries. In America, you write the annual taxes with a paper and pen.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry

    That is not a documentary. That is a mainline commercial (soap opera) drama. It is based on a novel which sold well to the 1950's American professional managerial class. Catcher in the Rye for grownups!

    There is a non-fiction equivalent which nearly everybody mixes up with it written at the same time by a sociologist. The Organization Man.

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Gray-Flannel-Suit/dp/1568582463

    https://www.amazon.com/Organization-Man-William-H-Whyte/dp/0812218191

    If feminists had taken these books to heart they would have become stay-home-moms.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

  408. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    Hot dog! And to think that all this time when Mr. Hack and yourself were posting all these images I blithely thought little of it.
    I swear I'll never take it for granted again!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Another good one that I came across recently:

    Smollett could not “hoodwink” Lady Justice. 🙂

    • Thanks: Not Raul
  409. Is this true?

  410. sher singh says:
    @AP
    @songbird


    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges
     
    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England. Temperature is not much different from northern New England - Burlington VT and Portland ME have annual mean temperatures only 3 degrees warmer F than does Montreal. These regions literally border each other.

    Southern New England is considerably warmer; this would suggest a larger native population than Quebec.

    A google search indicated numerous massacres of Indians by English colonists (and vice versa). None of Indians by French in Quebec (Indians massacred some French settlers but the French governor stopped efforts at retaliation):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.

    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.
     
    1890 Europeans wouldn't have killed millions of fellow Europeans in concentration camps. In 1914-1918 Europeans slaughtered each other on the battlefield by the millions but did not kill women and children in concentration camps. The mid 20th century was degeneracy.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.
     
    These places were not degenerate, as Germany was at the time. Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn't have, even if given the chance to.

    Killing millions in concentration camps, making lampshades out of human skin, engaging in sadistic murder or gang raping noble women as Cheka did - is more degenerate than cross-dressing while reading childrens' books.

    Replies: @sher singh, @songbird

    NERD, stop. Also murder is based but gayness is not|| Your nerdtales & argument have 0 IRL impact.
    The 3 comment per hour rule was made for niggas like you, r u opening gas station in QC or maine?

    Incredibly homosex that u latch onto a topic and don’t stop past point of reasonableness||U hv autism.
    Thoughts anyone? https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1439993130728583177?s=20

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @sher singh


    Thoughts anyone? https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1439993130728583177?s=20
     
    I think that this is a pretty fair assessment as far as it goes. Another principle difference is that Western Christianity has been slowly sapped of institutional power over several hundred years because of it's long interaction with liberalism/ state primacy.

    Islam effectively jumps into the modern age without undergoing the lengthy weakening process and so has a much stronger hold on it's adherents. I would say that the difference is more of historical situation than actual composition.

    This also explains why the Orthodox Churches do not have quite the same issues as Western Christianity, although many of them were quite damaged undergoing the crushing cultural trauma of Communism.

    Replies: @songbird

  411. @songbird
    @Dmitry


    What’s likely is that both smaller average height and the longer life expectancy, are effects of the diet in the regions.
     
    They have ranked people by height in Sardinia and it still holds:

    Within Sardinia, there is a group of 14 municipalities that exhibit higher longevity compared to the rest of the island. In addition, as height declines among these municipalities, longevity increases with the shortest municipaliity, Villagrande Strisaili, having the greatest longevity.
     
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-05-sardinian-men-height-factor-longevity.html

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Yes but this is consistent. If the regions where there was greater calorie or protein (or meat) restriction within Sardinia, would have both higher life expectancy and lower heights.

    This is a plausible appearing causal relationship can be.
    Calorie and protein (meat) restriction – > higher life expectancy and lower heights.

    There’s also apparently a Greek island in the Eastern Mediterranean called “Ikaria” (where Icarus has fallen to the sea), with the same high life expectancy. like Okinawa or Sardinia

    Journalists infer it is an effect of their natural diet based in local production, although of course not easy to separate diet’s influence on the healthy people in such islands from the effect of their traditional, almost utopian lifestyle.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    I'm sure that Aaron would agree with the sentiments expressed with this video clip 100%!

    , @songbird
    @Dmitry


    Yes but this is consistent. If the regions where there was greater calorie or protein (or meat) restriction within Sardinia, would have both higher life expectancy and lower heights.
     
    To get to the birth of centenarians, you have to go back in time. Plausibly, you could say these areas were poor, a hundred years ago, when centenarians were born.

    Though, you will still see massive height differences between the average young people of Okinawa and Sardinia who are quite short and the average young people of much poorer countries, like China or Serbia, who are very tall.

    That is not to say that fasting has no positive effect. In theory, there is likely an analogy to the metabolism of height differences. More cell division, if you are tall or eat a lot. Less, if you are short or eat little. But, I believe living longer takes extreme fasting and very few can manage that, so the best explanation is probably genetics.

    Journalists infer it is an effect of their natural diet based in local production
     
    I'm skeptical, as there were similar theories about some special food that the old-timers eat in Okinawa.

    Diet is really seductive because it appears to be easy to adopt, and easy to sell. Though, even if it were true for the locals, it would likely not be applicable to many foreigners, as our digestive and metabolic systems are very evolved to the local conditions of our ancestors. Inuit might do well to have a complete meat and fat diet, but probably not many others.

    I should like to see the height stats for Ikaria.
  412. @utu
    @Yevardian

    I misstated the case about the upper classes but certainly NZ had a higher class of settlers than AUS and colonization of NZ was planned. To be allowed to emigrate one had to obtain certification of more rectitude form one's pastor. Maoris were not ripped off because laws were followed. Anyway, NZ is a perfect example that central authority and higher moral standards of colonists led to much better treatment of natives.


    Humanitarian Governance in Colonial New Zealand (1833 – 1872)
    https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/144082/mwoodbur_1.pdf

    Unlike other examples of colonial expansion based largely on military conquest or assumptions of terra nullius, however, advocates of annexation pointed to the contractual and joint nature of the document as marking a qualitative shift in the history of empire. Instead of relying on force, New Zealand’s annexation via a treaty recognizing the rights of Māori established New Zealand as an experiment in colonial governance.
     

    Colonization, Education, and the Formation of Moral Character: Edward Gibbon Wakefield’s A Letter from Sydney
    https://carleton.ca/socanth/wp-content/uploads/curtis-colonization.pdf

    Similarly, in America, relative wealth did not lead to leisure, reflection, or self- cultivation. Instead, the high price of labour caused by the easy availability of land encouraged sloth.
     

    Edward Gibbon Wakefifield and the development of his theory of “Systematic Colonization”
    https://digitalcommons.unomaha.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1448&context=studentwork
     

    Replies: @sb

    The main difference between the settlements of Australia and New Zealand was that Australia had more Irish Catholics ie more prone to an anti Mother Country mentality
    In the 19th century there were 7 British settler colonies in the Antipodes and New Zealand wasn’t seen as particularly different to the other 6. There was much movement between the colonies .

    The reason the Maoris were treated differently to the Australian aborigines was that they were one very big united tribe who could put up a decent fight against the white interlopers . The difference with the Australian experience wasn’t in the character of the white interlopers of the various colonies who were remarkably similar notwithstanding ex post facto attempts to say how different they were

    • Agree: sher singh
  413. • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Aedib

    This chart has been making the rounds:

    https://i.imgur.com/VRL9xVq.jpg

    A naïve conclusion would be "coal = good", but Nordpool has a more updated map broken down by regions:

    https://i.imgur.com/xIhgsLa.jpg

    Clearly there is a transmission problem at play here, this is evident when looking at Sweden. France has a 80% nuclear electricity fleet but it doesn't help them much (their prices are even higher than in Germany). So what gives? Prices are determined at the margin in economics and the EU decided to trade CO2 contracts among other things. Any scarcity in the system will have wide ramifications.

    It also doesn't help that many European countries didn't sign more long-term contracts with the Russians, and are now forced to rely on next-day spot prices (while blaming the Kremlin for their own incompetence). This is also a reflection of the so-called "energy union" imposed in recent years.

    I am a strong advocate of renewable energies, but I have been very clear that all regeneration has to be doubled with batteries for situations like this. This has not been the policy of any European country that I know of. In addition, even countries with stable energy sources are seeing huge price spikes either for transmission limits (Sweden), regulatory arbitrage (France) or insufficient foresight in advancing long-term contracts (EU countries dependent on gas).

    This is a mess that has complicated roots and won't be solve until all the threads are properly disentagled. I am not encouraged by the early signs, as incompetent eurocrats instead resort to blameshifting and Kremlin-bashing.

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

  414. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    Yes but this is consistent. If the regions where there was greater calorie or protein (or meat) restriction within Sardinia, would have both higher life expectancy and lower heights.

    This is a plausible appearing causal relationship can be.
    Calorie and protein (meat) restriction - > higher life expectancy and lower heights.


    -


    There's also apparently a Greek island in the Eastern Mediterranean called "Ikaria" (where Icarus has fallen to the sea), with the same high life expectancy. like Okinawa or Sardinia

    Journalists infer it is an effect of their natural diet based in local production, although of course not easy to separate diet's influence on the healthy people in such islands from the effect of their traditional, almost utopian lifestyle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2t2AWaRo1g

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I’m sure that Aaron would agree with the sentiments expressed with this video clip 100%!

  415. Is Klaus Schwab a closet archaeofuturist?

  416. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    If Trump actually succeeds and manages to successfully put into action a cohesive agenda and/or decisively turns the tables on his political opposition I will gladly acknowledge Trump as master of both 3-D and even 4-D chess. I will also publicly declare on this forum that A123 was right all along and should be accorded the utmost deference.

    Until that time I'm sticking with my conclusion that Trump, though refreshingly brassy and capable of many true observations, is an opportunistic grifter who enjoys blowing hot air.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    Your accusation of “grifting” is libelous & unsupportable.

    There is ZERO evidence Trump was grifting in in his 1st Term. There is undeniable evidence he was up impossible odds.
    ____

    If you are correct. Prove it. Provide fact based actions that clear the fillowing:

        -1- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come House resistance?

        -2- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Senate resistance?

        -3- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Judicial resistance?

        -4- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Fake Stream Media resistance?

        -5- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come the criminally corrupt Special Counsel Mueller?
    ____

    To be non-libelous you must provide a course of action that could have worked to simultaneously overcome all 5 obstacles.

    Or, you can withdraw your MBNBC inspired accusation, and admit what actually occurred. Trump failed to achieve the impossible. There was no viable plan for total success available to his 1st Term.

    Trump was successful at obtaining what was available to be gained. Sadly, that us much less than what we would have liked. The 30 Year War was not won or lost in the first 4 years. This is a much better analogy in terms of time frame, hopefully less so in events. SJW Wokeness was slowly developed by enemies of freedom over decades.
    ____

    You should ignore Yellowface TROLL. He is ​fact free, highly emotional and, (lets be honest) “butt hurt” that he catastrophically failed a similar challenge. He is a low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo who exists to be inaccurate and libelous.

    Feel free to laugh at his comic flailing. I certainly do.

    # LetsGoBrandon 😇

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    We've gone around the merry go round a couple of times on Trump and I think it's safe to say that we will have to agree to disagree on that score.

    In brief, Trump was completely unprepared on taking office for a successful consolidation of power to effect real implementation of major policy goals. Clearly he was not working behind the scenes to show folks where their bread could be buttered. Even swamp creatures like McConnell were happy enough to tolerate Trump when it seemed politically canny. That could have been exploited much more effectively.

    However, the aspects of Trump which made him an effective firebrand were the same temperamental issues which made him an ineffective wielder of power. Trump should have spent less time trolling on Twitter and more time recruiting a power base.

    I'll reiterate that if Trump is really playing masterful 4D chess and engineers some huge upset, I'll be glad to admit that I was wrong. As it stands, I had some real, if limited hopes for Trump, though I felt pretty thoroughly disillusioned in his first 6 months in office.

    Replies: @A123

  417. @Yellowface Anon
    @Barbarossa

    Trump won't but Trumpists will because they follow the Conservative political tradition (changed for populist ends) and they have a political vision.

    Replies: @A123

    Trump is of course Populist, not Conservative. Here is a good example:

    Trump successfully ended the Wars in Afghanistan and Syria. The functional end can be objectively seen via reduction of casualties to near zero. And, he avoided Gen. SJW Milley’s trap that Not-The-President Biden walked into.

    The true Conservative DNC, led by NeoConDemocrats, wants war to expand. They wish to over deploy the U.S. military in a reckless manner that inevitably leads to shame & failure. Obama’s “Surge” proved that. (1)

    In December 2009, President Barack Obama ordered a surge force of 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, … the plan he decided on was based on questionable strategic logic. Stabilization of Afghanistan was not a critical US interest, and even if it was, the surge that Obama ordered was structured in a way that portended failure.

    How would you describe the SALT change in the current “Build Back Bloated” bill? (2)

    As result of its large SALT tax cut, the House bill’s income and payroll tax provisions together would provide a tax cut to nearly 80 percent of households with income between \$500,000 and \$1 million (whose tax cuts would average \$8,800) and to 70 percent of households with incomes over \$1 million (whose tax cuts would average \$16,960), the Tax Policy Center estimates. There’s no way to justify these tax cuts as “middle-class” tax relief. They are particularly egregious given that BBB aims to provide the most help for low- and middle-income households while reducing tax advantages for wealthy households.

    The DNC is cutting taxes for the richest. That makes “#NeverTrump Conservatives” a coherent side. To be a “Conservative SJW Globalist” is to be anti-Trump.
    ___

    Left, right, conservative, and liberal have all taken a beating and are now near useless. Rather than arguing over obsolete terminology, there is a better way forward. Using words that have have consistent measning.

    The best option available is Globalist/Populist. This works near perfectly in the U.S. plus places like Poland and Hungary.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    _____________________

    (1) https://www.militarystrategymagazine.com/article/was-obamas-2009-afghanistan-surge-based-on-sound-strategy/

    (2) https://www.cbpp.org/blog/senate-should-improve-salt-provision-in-house-bbb-bill

  418. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    Hot dog! And to think that all this time when Mr. Hack and yourself were posting all these images I blithely thought little of it.
    I swear I'll never take it for granted again!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

    He is being frickin autistic.

    Just notice your source file ends in .jpg or .png. The Unz review software does all of the rest.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    He is being frickin autistic. ... Just notice your source file ends in .jpg or .png. The Unz review software does all of the rest.

     

    Sadly not.

    Changes in the last few months make it much more difficult than it used to be. The "Google user content" blogging backbone no longer provides links ending in .jpg or .png.

    How would you embed the humorous image from this article?

    https://ninetymilesfromtyranny.blogspot.com/2021/12/we-will-we-will-mock-you.html

    This link opens but does not embed on UR. Visual inspection does not show an embedded link that can be parsed out.

    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgCpVQtwZNHdeN_wKYsf2Cd9VG96wg-gJh06_wJamcThe7XhNQpFthEKKfe6s_RhaQ1gN72_si6-YD61Xo8t_ilSec2wFx1gQXna7h1HDpqAnQeeGJfmox4c9BI4F7wBr0i7X1HnqdwvLlIlRcCSTccSPpYIqiwFiU5zPWw_wwP7SLQcdXED6rStdZHnw=s718

    Mr. Hack's reverse image search method seems to be necessary for this case.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  419. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    Rube Goldbergesqe series of clutches, lineshafts,
     
    Ok and this how you do not want to reject the modern world.

    It's beautiful to reject industrialized food and smartphones. But not so beautiful rejecting of modern safety guidelines and equipment.


    it’s more of a self fulfilling prophecy
     
    I don't even think it is self-fulfilling.

    For example, in the 20th century, capitalism and communism both go to the same processes in many areas of alienation. But in America with industries like fast food, there is awareness of the trend of mass production faster, and show you the future a few decades preview, that would come anyway. E.g. Ford was faster than Stalin.

    -

    By the way, these documentary clips about American culture are very interesting. Does anyone know what the name of the full documentary film is?

    Here is an interesting clip about alienation in the postwar corporate world of America. It's obviously from the same film that contains the clip I posted above about fast food. I imagine the complete documentary will be interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDmVFacinMg


    America is oftentimes more reactionary than their cultural exports.
     
    It's more chaotic and slow to change. But in some ways the latter is healthy and slows the transition to dystopia, that is going faster in other countries. In America, you write the annual taxes with a paper and pen.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    That is not a documentary. That is a mainline commercial (soap opera) drama. It is based on a novel which sold well to the 1950’s American professional managerial class. Catcher in the Rye for grownups!

    There is a non-fiction equivalent which nearly everybody mixes up with it written at the same time by a sociologist. The Organization Man.

    If feminists had taken these books to heart they would have become stay-home-moms.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do you recommend the Man in the Grey flannel Suit?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Dmitry
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Thanks for the information about the book discussed in the documentary film.

    But also I wonder what is the name of the documentary film. I could only find these 3 unlabelled clips in YouTube.

    They are all interesting clips from the same film, with an argument about 1950s American alienation processes in housing, food and corporate life, using mix of interview with reference to popular culture. Maybe there would also be a section about transport.


    Housing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKTI0wR-a7Q
    Fast food
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZeeLZDWb-s
    Corporate life. Although the writer talks about traveling to the office by train and drinking in the train bar. Some very attractive aspects before the highway has fully displaced the train.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDmVFacinMg

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  420. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry

    That is not a documentary. That is a mainline commercial (soap opera) drama. It is based on a novel which sold well to the 1950's American professional managerial class. Catcher in the Rye for grownups!

    There is a non-fiction equivalent which nearly everybody mixes up with it written at the same time by a sociologist. The Organization Man.

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Gray-Flannel-Suit/dp/1568582463

    https://www.amazon.com/Organization-Man-William-H-Whyte/dp/0812218191

    If feminists had taken these books to heart they would have become stay-home-moms.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    Do you recommend the Man in the Grey flannel Suit?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AP

    It has been a long time since I read it but it held my interest and I read it to the finish. Even though I filter what I start I am not going to finish at least half the books I start.

    You could easily make the case that it fits in with the (cliche) Tavistock social engineering agenda. Catcher in the Rye is a very close comp. If you have read that one you have got this base already covered.

  421. @AP
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do you recommend the Man in the Grey flannel Suit?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    It has been a long time since I read it but it held my interest and I read it to the finish. Even though I filter what I start I am not going to finish at least half the books I start.

    You could easily make the case that it fits in with the (cliche) Tavistock social engineering agenda. Catcher in the Rye is a very close comp. If you have read that one you have got this base already covered.

  422. @Aedib
    Coal Use Is Reaching Record Levels In India And China

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Coal/Coal-Use-Is-Reaching-Record-Levels-In-India-And-China.html

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    This chart has been making the rounds:

    A naïve conclusion would be “coal = good”, but Nordpool has a more updated map broken down by regions:

    Clearly there is a transmission problem at play here, this is evident when looking at Sweden. France has a 80% nuclear electricity fleet but it doesn’t help them much (their prices are even higher than in Germany). So what gives? Prices are determined at the margin in economics and the EU decided to trade CO2 contracts among other things. Any scarcity in the system will have wide ramifications.

    It also doesn’t help that many European countries didn’t sign more long-term contracts with the Russians, and are now forced to rely on next-day spot prices (while blaming the Kremlin for their own incompetence). This is also a reflection of the so-called “energy union” imposed in recent years.

    I am a strong advocate of renewable energies, but I have been very clear that all regeneration has to be doubled with batteries for situations like this. This has not been the policy of any European country that I know of. In addition, even countries with stable energy sources are seeing huge price spikes either for transmission limits (Sweden), regulatory arbitrage (France) or insufficient foresight in advancing long-term contracts (EU countries dependent on gas).

    This is a mess that has complicated roots and won’t be solve until all the threads are properly disentagled. I am not encouraged by the early signs, as incompetent eurocrats instead resort to blameshifting and Kremlin-bashing.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Thulean Friend


    It also doesn’t help that many European countries didn’t sign more long-term contracts with the Russians, and are now forced to rely on next-day spot prices (while blaming the Kremlin for their own incompetence). This is also a reflection of the so-called “energy union” imposed in recent years.

    ...or insufficient foresight in advancing long-term contracts (EU countries dependent on gas).
     

    Some elephants in the room missed, like Hungary or even non-EU Serbia with long term Gazprom contracts, but also having sky high current day to day electricity prices, not much different from many spotters.
    , @A123
    @Thulean Friend

    There appear to be at least two issues at play:

    -1- Transmission
    -2- Daily/Hourly spot pricing
    _____

    I shared a transmission map earlier up at:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5064341

    If you drill down further you can reach an interactive map with a "cross border only" option here:

    https://www.entsoe.eu/data/map/

    Transmission from Poland to Germany is quite limited, thus they cannot export their price advantage.
    ____

    Daily spot price is an important industrial number. However, it usually covers very little of the actual power consumed on a given day. It is best to look at spot prices in a Chart mode such as the one available here:

    https://tge.pl/electricity-dam

    You can also drill down on intraday pricing. On an unexpectedly temperate day, Poland's coal electricity may be spun up with very little opportunity to tweak back production.
    ___

    It is probably best to concentrate on overall cost, avoiding daily/hourly spot prices.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics

    For the first 6 months of 2021:

    AVG = 0.2322 €/KwH

    GER = 0.3193 €/KwH (1st / highest)
    POL = 0.1548 €/KwH -- 48.5% of GER
    HUN = 0.1003 €/KwH (lowest) -- 31.4% of GER

    This is an explicit guide to how badly Merkel's regime damaged the citizens of Germany. The fact that Scholz incoming administration wants to be even more brutal to the population is terrifying.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics." ― Benjamin Disraeli

  423. I rarely comment on Ukraine, but one thing if for sure: there has been major progress in recent years.

    Just think back: compared to 2014/15 FX reserves at the NBU are now six times higher, at over \$30bn, and providing something like 100% coverage of gross external financing needs. This is a reflection of a much improved BOP position. Compared to 2013 when the current account deficit was a stonking 9.2% of GDP, it was actually in surplus last year at 4% of GDP and is expected to be close to balance this year, before moving into a moderate deficit in 2022 due to the increased cost of energy imports.

    […]

    The trade turnaround from 2014 is again remarkable, as there has been a complete reset and reorientation from heavy reliance on trade with Russia, to now overwhelming dominance of the EU/UK in trade – a decade earlier two thirds of trade was with Russia, now it is single digits. This has again reduced Ukraine’s vulnerability to economic warfare from Russia.

    […]

    Public finances are also much improved from 2014, with the quasi-fiscal deficit cut from 8% of GDP, to around 2% of GDP, before the coronavirus (COVID-19) hit, around 6% of GDP last year and expected to be something at or below 5% of GDP in 2021, with the hope of reducing the deficit to something around 3.2% of GDP in 2022. Fiscal restraint/reform, strong debt management and real FX appreciation (still high share of FX debt in the total) have enabled the ratio of general government debt to GDP to decline to something like 55% this year, from a peak of close to 90% in 2015 around the time of the debt restructuring

    […]

    I also expect further and significant Western financial support for Ukraine – good news yesterday with an additional £1bn from the UK, increasing its export support programme to £3.5bn. I expect other friendly states to follow suit.

    As I noted earlier in this thread, I put the odds of an actual invasion to be close to nil. The economic re-orientation towards the West is now all but complete and Ukraine’s fiscal position is significantly stronger. The long-term challenge is to stem emigration (long-term migration is starting to stick, it isn’t just short-term anymore) and boost fertility, unless Ukraine will stomach immigration of gastarbeiters itself, which will likely come from relatively “unattractive” countries/cultures given its low per capita income.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Thulean Friend

    Thanks. Ukrainian wages have now started to catch up the poorest European countries, also. Whereas before Ukraine was only ahead of Moldova and far behind any other country, nowadays Ukraine and Moldova (which has also improved thanks to a more Europe-oriented government) have surpassed Albania, all three Caucasian republics, and are tied with Belarus (adjusted for cost of living, Ukrainian wages now surpass Moldova, Albania, Macedonia, Kosovo, and all three Caucasian Republics though are behind Belarus which is even cheaper).

    , @LatW
    @Thulean Friend


    Ukraine
     
    Some decent startups that have Ukrainian founders and CEOs are GitLab (DevOps, $11B valuation), Grammarly (AI, over $10B valuation), Preply (learning platform that's gaining traction).

    As to guestworkers, they could be from Vietnam. Although as you wrote, Vietnam, too, is advancing.

    Btw, interesting fact, there used to be Vietnamese guest workers in the SU in the 1980s.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  424. @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Chinese tech firms face a two-front assault.
     
    A problem, I think, with investment in China is that it is still an authoritarian dictatorship.

    So, there is a limit to your property rights in your investment, and to the property rights of the company itself. Moreover, this can be more of a problem for internet companies, which sell information, than for traditional industries.

    If you buy shares in Alibaba, not only do you not really have ownership (https://thediplomat.com/2014/09/no-one-who-bought-alibaba-stock-actually-owns-alibaba), but also even Jack Ma doesn't own what he has (https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2021/06/07/the-sad-end-of-jack-ma-inc ).

    Life in China will be such a game where you are not sure exactly that you own what you are supposed to own, until you get the Canadian investment citizenship with the multi-million dollar penthouse in Vancouver.

    I'm not any expert, but I imagine that even professional workers in Wall Street can only give you a few interpretations for Alibaba. "This is undervalued because of the China risk is overvalued". "This is an accurate price because of the China risk". Or - "This is overvalued because of the China risk is undervalued".

    In no scenario will China risk suddenly disappear, so it will just not have a long term valuation like an equivalent Western company.

    Brazil in that it’s a country of a broad high-human capital capability. Brazil has much lower human capital, but it’s big

     

    Again I'm not an expert, but I would assume the problems with Brazil, are political or society problems.

    This is like Russia. You can ask why GDP of the Russian Federation is lower today that it was in 2008. That's Russia's economy has zero GDP growth over the last 12 years.

    But another question (easier) you can ask, are the authorities worried that the economy is smaller today, than 12 years ago? Should they be worried? Is it a serious problem? No, they don't seem to really care. Maybe it is a problem for the little people, not for the big people.

    There is a equilibrium in the country between control and creating conditions for economic growth.

    Kasⓟersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world's successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.

    At some point, you might think about choice between export growth of the company, and its integration with FSB, GRU, etc. However, what if the raison d'être of the company, is this integration.

    Above a certain level, the control is a higher priority that the economic growth (and centralized middle income countries like Russia has already more than enough money for the rulers to have an incomprehensible level of wealth).

    Pavel Durov says he can't even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn't climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d'être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.

    I would have invested in China if not for the politics

     

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Kaspersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world’s successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.

    Most MIC-related companies are integrated with their respective countries intelligence networks, or that of a broader alliance structure, e.g. NATO.

    I think a bigger problem for Russian firms is that Chinese MIC is now virtually on par with Russia in most areas except engines. In areas like avionics or electronics, it is already ahead. India is ramping up indigenisation efforts along with a greater shift towards US imports. These are traditionally the two main clients of Russian MIC, which must necessarily affect companies downstream such as Kaspersky. The domestic market cannot compensate for weakness of export orders.

    From what I have read, a recurring complaint that the Indians had is that Russian equipment is often good but after-sale services like maintenance has been much poorer. This is apparently not just an Indian complaint.

    More broadly, I think Russia is still too invested in “old” industries. These still matter, but they are not fast-growing. As I noted earlier, my conception of long-term prosperity is innovation and technological progress. The fastest-growing areas are going to be connected to where there is most innovation. That is where China and USA are the strongest, with Europe picking up pace in recent years (though still making up for lost ground).

    Pavel Durov says he can’t even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.

    To the question of why Russia can’t have these firms, you are providing the answer. It’s not lack of capability, it’s a social/political choice to some extent.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn’t climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d’être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.

    I agree with this, but I don’t think it explains it all. There is a human capital component to this puzzle. But yes, Latinx elites seem to be more content to enjoying the good life by relying on traditional industries such as agricultural exports, tied with land ownership. This is convenient, since it is hereditary and thus requires little effort or innovation. It also seamlessly blocks outsiders who could shake up these industries, slowing or outright blocking competition, which provides monopoly rents. Bad for the country but good for the landed gentry. That’s a major reason why Argentina fell behind the West, to relate to a previous discussion.

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.

    The entire stock market is massively overvalued. I haven’t invested in anything since 2019. I toyed with the idea of investing in BYD back in 2015, and I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake in not doing so. So far it appears I did, but my horizon is decades and not years, and I believed back then as now that the political risk would eventually gain the upper hand. OTOH, BYD is unique among Chinese firms in that US investors control a very large share, which might either make it less risky or more so (from the PoV of Beijing), depending on your view.

    More generally, I think a bigger problem is that companies go public later and later in their life cycle, which limits the earliest and strongest gains to a few insider private equity firms and VCs. That’s almost a democratic problem. Companies should go public as early as possible, which would allow the returns to be more evenly distributed among a larger share of the population. This is a major problem in Western capitalism that has shifted significantly in recent decades and remains underreported. Apple and Microsoft, by comparison, went public much faster and thus made it easier for normal investors to gain from stock ownership far earlier. These days, unicorns stay private for longer in part since private VC capital is far more ubiquitous, with the downside that gains are concentrated in a few hands of insiders.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    BYD back in 2015, and I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake
     
    Yes I think we can say you made a mistake because stocks are so fungible, you can sell after any price rise. It could be sensible investment if reward exceeds your initial risk level, even for intrinsically useless investments that could go to zero.

    Although I'm not someone who understands personal finance or investment, so I just follow these stories from a historical curiosity view, rather than financial one.

    I've been following about BYD for around 4 years now, not with a hope to invest money, but rather because change in transport technology, is a historically interesting topic.

    From investment view, I guess they will be interested in the effect of LFP patent expiry

    LFP patent expires 2022.

    "China’s dominance in LFP battery production in part relates to a series of key LFP patents, which are managed by a consortium of universities and research institutions. This consortium came to an agreement with Chinese battery makers a decade ago under which the manufacturers would not be charged a licensing fee providing that the LFP batteries were used only in Chinese markets. Hence, China cornered the LFP market." https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/28/what-teslas-bet-on-iron-based-batteries-means-for-manufacturers/

    So LFP production could start to be established outside China this decade.


    The entire stock market is massively overvalued. I haven’t invested in anything since 2019.
     
    In terms of investment for individual company, I think a safe strategy is to only invest in an industry where you work and have a professional knowledge. That's my only small equity investment, is in a few companies where I know personally people who work in the company and I understand a little of this small niche. Here at least you have an ability to filter away from scams.

    Of course, for most people, should go to index funds at most.


    s go public later and later in their life cycle, which limits the earliest and strongest gains to a few insider
     
    Being an early investor is even more risky though. Vast majority of the content in the pitch decks is crazy optimism, fantasies and marketing. It's useful to go to the investor presentations to be in contact with the fashions, but if you give money to many of them even at Series A-D you will be rapidly bankrupt.

    You wouldn't want to expose more of the public to such investor pitches, as they cannot manage risk and will lose over a longer time. People will actually believe the pitch decks.

    As you can see sadly with penny stocks, cryptocurrencies, ponzi, many of the public will invest even in products with almost no value or business plan. There is some flood of cortisone in the brain and they will begin gambling.


    companies are integrated with their respective countries intelligence
     
    Yes but then such company has a limited economic roof as domestic market is limited. But of course the main priority of these companies is not economic.
    , @LatW
    @Thulean Friend


    It's not lack of capability, it's a social/political choice
     
    Right, and this political aspect actually impacts capability because Pavel Durov alone returning wouldn't be enough. There would be a need to import more higher level operators. For instance, in Brazil where there has been a recent fintech boom, the founders are often LatAm entrepreneurs who have returned from the States, or expats, but they still need to hire all the higher level executives and many techies from all over the world. Russia could benefit from such as well, while they do have their own talented peeps it just wouldn't be enough to create something on the level of, let's say, Uber or AliExpress. Or even somewhat smaller but globally competitive startups.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  425. @Thulean Friend
    @Aedib

    This chart has been making the rounds:

    https://i.imgur.com/VRL9xVq.jpg

    A naïve conclusion would be "coal = good", but Nordpool has a more updated map broken down by regions:

    https://i.imgur.com/xIhgsLa.jpg

    Clearly there is a transmission problem at play here, this is evident when looking at Sweden. France has a 80% nuclear electricity fleet but it doesn't help them much (their prices are even higher than in Germany). So what gives? Prices are determined at the margin in economics and the EU decided to trade CO2 contracts among other things. Any scarcity in the system will have wide ramifications.

    It also doesn't help that many European countries didn't sign more long-term contracts with the Russians, and are now forced to rely on next-day spot prices (while blaming the Kremlin for their own incompetence). This is also a reflection of the so-called "energy union" imposed in recent years.

    I am a strong advocate of renewable energies, but I have been very clear that all regeneration has to be doubled with batteries for situations like this. This has not been the policy of any European country that I know of. In addition, even countries with stable energy sources are seeing huge price spikes either for transmission limits (Sweden), regulatory arbitrage (France) or insufficient foresight in advancing long-term contracts (EU countries dependent on gas).

    This is a mess that has complicated roots and won't be solve until all the threads are properly disentagled. I am not encouraged by the early signs, as incompetent eurocrats instead resort to blameshifting and Kremlin-bashing.

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    It also doesn’t help that many European countries didn’t sign more long-term contracts with the Russians, and are now forced to rely on next-day spot prices (while blaming the Kremlin for their own incompetence). This is also a reflection of the so-called “energy union” imposed in recent years.

    …or insufficient foresight in advancing long-term contracts (EU countries dependent on gas).

    Some elephants in the room missed, like Hungary or even non-EU Serbia with long term Gazprom contracts, but also having sky high current day to day electricity prices, not much different from many spotters.

  426. @AP
    @songbird


    But there being three times more natives in French Quebec than in New England overcomes such problems.

    if they were the same size, had the same temperature ranges
     
    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England. Temperature is not much different from northern New England - Burlington VT and Portland ME have annual mean temperatures only 3 degrees warmer F than does Montreal. These regions literally border each other.

    Southern New England is considerably warmer; this would suggest a larger native population than Quebec.

    A google search indicated numerous massacres of Indians by English colonists (and vice versa). None of Indians by French in Quebec (Indians massacred some French settlers but the French governor stopped efforts at retaliation):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    The mass-murder-orgies of the mid 20th century were worse and degenerate.

    IMO, that is just a cope that progressives tell themselves.

    Tyranny is a power dynamic scenario.
     
    1890 Europeans wouldn't have killed millions of fellow Europeans in concentration camps. In 1914-1918 Europeans slaughtered each other on the battlefield by the millions but did not kill women and children in concentration camps. The mid 20th century was degeneracy.

    In order to measure civilizational degeneracy, I suggest that it would make more sense to look at countries that were at peace during WW2. Sweden and Switzerland, for instance.
     
    These places were not degenerate, as Germany was at the time. Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn't have, even if given the chance to.

    Killing millions in concentration camps, making lampshades out of human skin, engaging in sadistic murder or gang raping noble women as Cheka did - is more degenerate than cross-dressing while reading childrens' books.

    Replies: @sher singh, @songbird

    making lampshades out of human skin

    Very dubious, not unlike the tales of Germans bayoneting babies in WWI or crucifying an Allied soldier. Don’t get what the point is of adding these macabre details. You should hear what some of the racial hustlers say happened during slavery.

    [MORE]
    (Too scatological for Unz)

    Moral relativism seems the ultimate in degeneracy. But I suggest that there should be another term – “WW2 relativism”, which is the real ultimate in degeneracy, as I think “moral relativism” doesn’t have the same natural appeal to the masses. It does not have countless films and TV that promote it, unlike WW2. People have called “The History Channel”, “The WW2 Channel” for good reason.

    What is the moral utility of setting up WW2 as our measuring stick for ethics? I’ll grant it has a lot of purchase on people’s minds because of the great mortality of it, but what is the effective good of it? We live in the age of the atom, WW2 would not have happened, under those conditions. (not to mention others that predominate now.) So, it is an impossible standard to reach, short of some civilizational collapse or apocalypse, which did not happen during WW2.

    But let’s not stop there. What is the effective evil of over-promoting it and using it as our moral yardstick? It is honestly too large for me to fully enumerate here. But it ranges from the small (people with the name “Hitler” desiring an end to their lines), to the very great (the complete erosion of the ethnocentrism of Europeans – ethnocentrism being the only workable defense against invasion – and Europeans easily being some of the greatest and worthiest peoples who have ever lived)

    Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn’t have, even if given the chance to.

    Well, we will never find out, as Poland did not have the same population as Germany and could not have attempted to annex any of its neighbors, solo. It did participate in annexation opportunistically, though.
    ___

    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England.

    The whole latitudinal range of Quebec is livable in some fashion, as is proved by the Inuit living there. I think you mean arable?

    It is important to understand that corn in 1620 was not the wonder crop that it is today. It was domesticated in Mesoamerica and not well-adapted for cold Northern latitudes as Khrushchev later found out, to his dismay. By now, we do have better varieties, with higher yields. Ireland did not adopt corn, but it did adopt the real wonder crop, the potato.

    OTOH, game is very cold-adopted. Look at a moose breathe out in the freezing cold and likely you will not see a fog. Ducks can stand comfortably on ice, all day long, though they do fly south to get to open water in order to eat, nevertheless, there are many fowl in Canada in the warmer months, hence the name “Canada goose.” Quebec, which is 8x larger, no doubt has much more game.

    In the neolithic in Northern Europe, farming was evidently very limited, and hardscrabble. They didn’t have the numbers to eliminate the hunter-gatherers but lived in the same countries for thousands of years. The NE of North America must have been filled with hunter-gatherers, especially when you consider Indians were missing many technologies from the neolithic, like pigs and goats. Even the people who grew corn, were likely mainly hunter-gatherers, getting many of their calories from game.

    If anything, I think relative warmth would count against them, as facilitating various factors for disease. Into the early 1900s, the warmer months in Boston were rife with diseases that killed infants. It was not uncommon for the richer people to leave the city, partly to escape the disease. One of my great grandfathers lost seven or eight of his children.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    Moral relativism seems the ultimate in degeneracy.
     
    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.

    Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn’t have, even if given the chance to.

    Well, we will never find out, as Poland did not have the same population as Germany and could not have attempted to annex any of its neighbors, solo.
     
    Poland occupied some Ukrainian and German-inhabited lands. Right after fighting, it placed prisoners in internment camps with a lot of deaths form disease right after the war (the Soviets used this as an excuse for Katyn) but afterward its behavior was heavy-handed and the locals had legitimate grievances, but never rose above that of a milder version of the Jim Crow era South. There was nothing like German or Soviet death camps.

    It did participate in annexation opportunistically, though.
     
    Sure. It did so in a bloodless operation with the Czechs and without killing any Slovaks.

    Poles were not angels but they were not degenerate monsters as the Germans had become.

    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England.

    The whole latitudinal range of Quebec is livable in some fashion, as is proved by the Inuit living there. I think you mean arable?
     
    Areas that can sustain a decent population and that are populated rather than empty woodland. It's about the same in Quebec as in New England. Yet Quebec has three times more Natives.

    It is important to understand that corn in 1620 was not the wonder crop that it is today. It was domesticated in Mesoamerica and not well-adapted for cold Northern latitudes as Khrushchev later found out, to his dismay.
     
    If you are suggesting that prior to modern agriculture, Quebec would have been less likely to sustain a large population than New England - then it supports my point. It suggests that prior to European contact there were fewer Natives in Quebec than in warmer New England. This makes the modern day discrepancy even worse - Quebec went from having far fewer natives prior to European contact, to three times more now. The difference between having had to deal with French Catholics versus English Protestants.
  427. A

    dashing, courageous, wild, and unbalanced leader, good for operations requiring thrust and push, but at a loss in any operation requiring skill and judgment

    Yes, that aptly describes Patton and MacArthur. Americans have long embraced what has been called “the con style.” Examples abound in today’s political, cultural, industrial, academic, and scientific leaders. The difference between then and now is that now, this con-style predilection could well result in a completely unraveled America, and even a nuclear ash pile for much of the world.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @SafeNow

    Patton had a very squeaky voice. He was not a very impressive figure, in person, and so probably not a good conman.

    Replies: @SafeNow

  428. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    Yes but this is consistent. If the regions where there was greater calorie or protein (or meat) restriction within Sardinia, would have both higher life expectancy and lower heights.

    This is a plausible appearing causal relationship can be.
    Calorie and protein (meat) restriction - > higher life expectancy and lower heights.


    -


    There's also apparently a Greek island in the Eastern Mediterranean called "Ikaria" (where Icarus has fallen to the sea), with the same high life expectancy. like Okinawa or Sardinia

    Journalists infer it is an effect of their natural diet based in local production, although of course not easy to separate diet's influence on the healthy people in such islands from the effect of their traditional, almost utopian lifestyle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2t2AWaRo1g

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    Yes but this is consistent. If the regions where there was greater calorie or protein (or meat) restriction within Sardinia, would have both higher life expectancy and lower heights.

    To get to the birth of centenarians, you have to go back in time. Plausibly, you could say these areas were poor, a hundred years ago, when centenarians were born.

    Though, you will still see massive height differences between the average young people of Okinawa and Sardinia who are quite short and the average young people of much poorer countries, like China or Serbia, who are very tall.

    That is not to say that fasting has no positive effect. In theory, there is likely an analogy to the metabolism of height differences. More cell division, if you are tall or eat a lot. Less, if you are short or eat little. But, I believe living longer takes extreme fasting and very few can manage that, so the best explanation is probably genetics.

    Journalists infer it is an effect of their natural diet based in local production

    I’m skeptical, as there were similar theories about some special food that the old-timers eat in Okinawa.

    Diet is really seductive because it appears to be easy to adopt, and easy to sell. Though, even if it were true for the locals, it would likely not be applicable to many foreigners, as our digestive and metabolic systems are very evolved to the local conditions of our ancestors. Inuit might do well to have a complete meat and fat diet, but probably not many others.

    I should like to see the height stats for Ikaria.

  429. @SafeNow
    A

    dashing, courageous, wild, and unbalanced leader, good for operations requiring thrust and push, but at a loss in any operation requiring skill and judgment
     
    Yes, that aptly describes Patton and MacArthur. Americans have long embraced what has been called “the con style.” Examples abound in today’s political, cultural, industrial, academic, and scientific leaders. The difference between then and now is that now, this con-style predilection could well result in a completely unraveled America, and even a nuclear ash pile for much of the world.

    Replies: @songbird

    Patton had a very squeaky voice. He was not a very impressive figure, in person, and so probably not a good conman.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @songbird

    True, good point. But he wore a pearl-handled revolver, and slapped a GI suffering from shell-shock. Carl Malden, playing Brad, was exasperated by him.

    “Con style” is a useful expression because it encompasses two aspects: (1) The fakeness and dishonesty of the snake-oil salesman; and (2) The deportment of the prison convict (Joan Didion used “con style”in this sense.)

    Replies: @utu, @songbird

  430. @Thulean Friend
    @Aedib

    This chart has been making the rounds:

    https://i.imgur.com/VRL9xVq.jpg

    A naïve conclusion would be "coal = good", but Nordpool has a more updated map broken down by regions:

    https://i.imgur.com/xIhgsLa.jpg

    Clearly there is a transmission problem at play here, this is evident when looking at Sweden. France has a 80% nuclear electricity fleet but it doesn't help them much (their prices are even higher than in Germany). So what gives? Prices are determined at the margin in economics and the EU decided to trade CO2 contracts among other things. Any scarcity in the system will have wide ramifications.

    It also doesn't help that many European countries didn't sign more long-term contracts with the Russians, and are now forced to rely on next-day spot prices (while blaming the Kremlin for their own incompetence). This is also a reflection of the so-called "energy union" imposed in recent years.

    I am a strong advocate of renewable energies, but I have been very clear that all regeneration has to be doubled with batteries for situations like this. This has not been the policy of any European country that I know of. In addition, even countries with stable energy sources are seeing huge price spikes either for transmission limits (Sweden), regulatory arbitrage (France) or insufficient foresight in advancing long-term contracts (EU countries dependent on gas).

    This is a mess that has complicated roots and won't be solve until all the threads are properly disentagled. I am not encouraged by the early signs, as incompetent eurocrats instead resort to blameshifting and Kremlin-bashing.

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    There appear to be at least two issues at play:

    -1- Transmission
    -2- Daily/Hourly spot pricing
    _____

    I shared a transmission map earlier up at:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5064341

    If you drill down further you can reach an interactive map with a “cross border only” option here:

    https://www.entsoe.eu/data/map/

    Transmission from Poland to Germany is quite limited, thus they cannot export their price advantage.
    ____

    Daily spot price is an important industrial number. However, it usually covers very little of the actual power consumed on a given day. It is best to look at spot prices in a Chart mode such as the one available here:

    https://tge.pl/electricity-dam

    You can also drill down on intraday pricing. On an unexpectedly temperate day, Poland’s coal electricity may be spun up with very little opportunity to tweak back production.
    ___

    It is probably best to concentrate on overall cost, avoiding daily/hourly spot prices.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics

    For the first 6 months of 2021:

    AVG = 0.2322 €/KwH

    GER = 0.3193 €/KwH (1st / highest)
    POL = 0.1548 €/KwH — 48.5% of GER
    HUN = 0.1003 €/KwH (lowest) — 31.4% of GER

    This is an explicit guide to how badly Merkel’s regime damaged the citizens of Germany. The fact that Scholz incoming administration wants to be even more brutal to the population is terrifying.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    There are three types of lies — lies, damn lies, and statistics.” ― Benjamin Disraeli

  431. @songbird
    @SafeNow

    Patton had a very squeaky voice. He was not a very impressive figure, in person, and so probably not a good conman.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    True, good point. But he wore a pearl-handled revolver, and slapped a GI suffering from shell-shock. Carl Malden, playing Brad, was exasperated by him.

    “Con style” is a useful expression because it encompasses two aspects: (1) The fakeness and dishonesty of the snake-oil salesman; and (2) The deportment of the prison convict (Joan Didion used “con style”in this sense.)

    • Replies: @utu
    @SafeNow

    con-man <--- confidence
    ex-con <---- convict

    , @songbird
    @SafeNow

    Likely, Patton owed part of his career to the fact that Pershing was courting his sister at the time that the expedition against Pancho Villa was organized.

  432. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel


    Some have managed to keep the Basque language over generations.
     
    Yet you seem to have chosen the fast track to American assimilation?

    Replies: @Mikel

    Yet you seem to have chosen the fast track to American assimilation?

    Assimilation to a foreign culture is never fast or easy.

    I’m not even sure how assimilable I am. We Europeans tend to be more cynical and less naive than Americans. Something like QAnon or the tiki-torchers is difficult to imagine in Europe. Although perhaps our lack of naivete makes us be less entrepreneurial. Americans are much better at turning simple ideas into good business opportunities. Those of us who were born in Western Europe also tend to be more liberal than what’s normal in red-state America, the best part of the country as far as I’m concerned, but sometimes difficult to adapt culturally to.

    Recent immigrants will always lack the soil and blood component of patriotism but I actually think that we can be more patriotic in other aspects. This is not just the country where we happened to be born but the one we chose to lead our lives and that of our children in. We are heavily invested in this country’s future so we are much less likely to want to radically transform it, feel ashamed of its past or seek to outright destroy it, as some old-stock Americans are prone to. Whenever I see people of immigrant background join those movements, I marvel at how patient Americans are by not deporting them.

    That is not to mean in any way that Americans, immigrant or not, should defend everything America stands for. I think that in the past couple of decades the US has turned into a source of pointless violence and destabilization in the world, that does nothing to improve its own citizens’ lives, and should better return to a much more isolationist policy. IOW, I am pretty much a MAGA guy, without A123’s naive personality cult.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel

    I have a similar opinion of you. You are a naive hater from the The Anti-Person Cult of #NeverTrump. Why are you filled with irrational loathing for Donald Trump? Why do whine & whinge that he failed to achieve the impossible?

    I genuinely do not understand your mouth frothing, gibbering rage at Trump successfully ending two wars (Afghanistan and Syria). Did you really want those wars to continue? What more could your naivety cause you to demand?
    ____

    If you think I am being unfair, please feel free to accept the challenge I laid out for Barbarossa:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5073555

    At least long enough to provide objective facts about what Trump could have actually achieved. Can you let go of your unreasonably naive, fantasy land, dream constructs long enough to do that?

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

  433. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    He is being frickin autistic.

    Just notice your source file ends in .jpg or .png. The Unz review software does all of the rest.

    Replies: @A123

    He is being frickin autistic. … Just notice your source file ends in .jpg or .png. The Unz review software does all of the rest.

    Sadly not.

    Changes in the last few months make it much more difficult than it used to be. The “Google user content” blogging backbone no longer provides links ending in .jpg or .png.

    How would you embed the humorous image from this article?

    https://ninetymilesfromtyranny.blogspot.com/2021/12/we-will-we-will-mock-you.html

    This link opens but does not embed on UR. Visual inspection does not show an embedded link that can be parsed out.

    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgCpVQtwZNHdeN_wKYsf2Cd9VG96wg-gJh06_wJamcThe7XhNQpFthEKKfe6s_RhaQ1gN72_si6-YD61Xo8t_ilSec2wFx1gQXna7h1HDpqAnQeeGJfmox4c9BI4F7wBr0i7X1HnqdwvLlIlRcCSTccSPpYIqiwFiU5zPWw_wwP7SLQcdXED6rStdZHnw=s718

    Mr. Hack’s reverse image search method seems to be necessary for this case.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    This is a close to a variety of work.

    There is only one way I am going to work. I have to get paid.

    Replies: @Max Demian

  434. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    Kaspersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world’s successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.
     
    Most MIC-related companies are integrated with their respective countries intelligence networks, or that of a broader alliance structure, e.g. NATO.

    I think a bigger problem for Russian firms is that Chinese MIC is now virtually on par with Russia in most areas except engines. In areas like avionics or electronics, it is already ahead. India is ramping up indigenisation efforts along with a greater shift towards US imports. These are traditionally the two main clients of Russian MIC, which must necessarily affect companies downstream such as Kaspersky. The domestic market cannot compensate for weakness of export orders.

    From what I have read, a recurring complaint that the Indians had is that Russian equipment is often good but after-sale services like maintenance has been much poorer. This is apparently not just an Indian complaint.

    More broadly, I think Russia is still too invested in "old" industries. These still matter, but they are not fast-growing. As I noted earlier, my conception of long-term prosperity is innovation and technological progress. The fastest-growing areas are going to be connected to where there is most innovation. That is where China and USA are the strongest, with Europe picking up pace in recent years (though still making up for lost ground).


    Pavel Durov says he can’t even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.
     
    To the question of why Russia can't have these firms, you are providing the answer. It's not lack of capability, it's a social/political choice to some extent.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn’t climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d’être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.
     
    I agree with this, but I don't think it explains it all. There is a human capital component to this puzzle. But yes, Latinx elites seem to be more content to enjoying the good life by relying on traditional industries such as agricultural exports, tied with land ownership. This is convenient, since it is hereditary and thus requires little effort or innovation. It also seamlessly blocks outsiders who could shake up these industries, slowing or outright blocking competition, which provides monopoly rents. Bad for the country but good for the landed gentry. That's a major reason why Argentina fell behind the West, to relate to a previous discussion.

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.
     
    The entire stock market is massively overvalued. I haven't invested in anything since 2019. I toyed with the idea of investing in BYD back in 2015, and I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake in not doing so. So far it appears I did, but my horizon is decades and not years, and I believed back then as now that the political risk would eventually gain the upper hand. OTOH, BYD is unique among Chinese firms in that US investors control a very large share, which might either make it less risky or more so (from the PoV of Beijing), depending on your view.

    More generally, I think a bigger problem is that companies go public later and later in their life cycle, which limits the earliest and strongest gains to a few insider private equity firms and VCs. That's almost a democratic problem. Companies should go public as early as possible, which would allow the returns to be more evenly distributed among a larger share of the population. This is a major problem in Western capitalism that has shifted significantly in recent decades and remains underreported. Apple and Microsoft, by comparison, went public much faster and thus made it easier for normal investors to gain from stock ownership far earlier. These days, unicorns stay private for longer in part since private VC capital is far more ubiquitous, with the downside that gains are concentrated in a few hands of insiders.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @LatW

    BYD back in 2015, and I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake

    Yes I think we can say you made a mistake because stocks are so fungible, you can sell after any price rise. It could be sensible investment if reward exceeds your initial risk level, even for intrinsically useless investments that could go to zero.

    Although I’m not someone who understands personal finance or investment, so I just follow these stories from a historical curiosity view, rather than financial one.

    I’ve been following about BYD for around 4 years now, not with a hope to invest money, but rather because change in transport technology, is a historically interesting topic.

    From investment view, I guess they will be interested in the effect of LFP patent expiry

    LFP patent expires 2022.

    “China’s dominance in LFP battery production in part relates to a series of key LFP patents, which are managed by a consortium of universities and research institutions. This consortium came to an agreement with Chinese battery makers a decade ago under which the manufacturers would not be charged a licensing fee providing that the LFP batteries were used only in Chinese markets. Hence, China cornered the LFP market.” https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/28/what-teslas-bet-on-iron-based-batteries-means-for-manufacturers/

    So LFP production could start to be established outside China this decade.

    The entire stock market is massively overvalued. I haven’t invested in anything since 2019.

    In terms of investment for individual company, I think a safe strategy is to only invest in an industry where you work and have a professional knowledge. That’s my only small equity investment, is in a few companies where I know personally people who work in the company and I understand a little of this small niche. Here at least you have an ability to filter away from scams.

    Of course, for most people, should go to index funds at most.

    s go public later and later in their life cycle, which limits the earliest and strongest gains to a few insider

    Being an early investor is even more risky though. Vast majority of the content in the pitch decks is crazy optimism, fantasies and marketing. It’s useful to go to the investor presentations to be in contact with the fashions, but if you give money to many of them even at Series A-D you will be rapidly bankrupt.

    You wouldn’t want to expose more of the public to such investor pitches, as they cannot manage risk and will lose over a longer time. People will actually believe the pitch decks.

    As you can see sadly with penny stocks, cryptocurrencies, ponzi, many of the public will invest even in products with almost no value or business plan. There is some flood of cortisone in the brain and they will begin gambling.

    companies are integrated with their respective countries intelligence

    Yes but then such company has a limited economic roof as domestic market is limited. But of course the main priority of these companies is not economic.

  435. @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack


    Yet you seem to have chosen the fast track to American assimilation?
     
    Assimilation to a foreign culture is never fast or easy.

    I'm not even sure how assimilable I am. We Europeans tend to be more cynical and less naive than Americans. Something like QAnon or the tiki-torchers is difficult to imagine in Europe. Although perhaps our lack of naivete makes us be less entrepreneurial. Americans are much better at turning simple ideas into good business opportunities. Those of us who were born in Western Europe also tend to be more liberal than what's normal in red-state America, the best part of the country as far as I'm concerned, but sometimes difficult to adapt culturally to.

    Recent immigrants will always lack the soil and blood component of patriotism but I actually think that we can be more patriotic in other aspects. This is not just the country where we happened to be born but the one we chose to lead our lives and that of our children in. We are heavily invested in this country's future so we are much less likely to want to radically transform it, feel ashamed of its past or seek to outright destroy it, as some old-stock Americans are prone to. Whenever I see people of immigrant background join those movements, I marvel at how patient Americans are by not deporting them.

    That is not to mean in any way that Americans, immigrant or not, should defend everything America stands for. I think that in the past couple of decades the US has turned into a source of pointless violence and destabilization in the world, that does nothing to improve its own citizens' lives, and should better return to a much more isolationist policy. IOW, I am pretty much a MAGA guy, without A123's naive personality cult.

    Replies: @A123

    I have a similar opinion of you. You are a naive hater from the The Anti-Person Cult of #NeverTrump. Why are you filled with irrational loathing for Donald Trump? Why do whine & whinge that he failed to achieve the impossible?

    I genuinely do not understand your mouth frothing, gibbering rage at Trump successfully ending two wars (Afghanistan and Syria). Did you really want those wars to continue? What more could your naivety cause you to demand?
    ____

    If you think I am being unfair, please feel free to accept the challenge I laid out for Barbarossa:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5073555

    At least long enough to provide objective facts about what Trump could have actually achieved. Can you let go of your unreasonably naive, fantasy land, dream constructs long enough to do that?

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123

    I actually doubt that you really believe some of the stuff you write so debating with you is likely pointless but Trump didn't even manage to retire the small American contingent from Syria, although he did announce that he was doing it. Twice. On the contrary, he dangerously increased tensions with Russia by attacking its Syrian allies and threatening the Russians themselves. Again, twice. Biden didn't waste time tweeting. He just decided to take the American troops out of Afghanistan, no matter how loud his own political and media allies in the US protested, and did it.

    Let's just hope that if DeSantis runs for president, Trump won't ruin his chances. DeSantis has also proven to be able to do things instead of just tweeting about them.

    Replies: @A123, @iffen

  436. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry

    That is not a documentary. That is a mainline commercial (soap opera) drama. It is based on a novel which sold well to the 1950's American professional managerial class. Catcher in the Rye for grownups!

    There is a non-fiction equivalent which nearly everybody mixes up with it written at the same time by a sociologist. The Organization Man.

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Gray-Flannel-Suit/dp/1568582463

    https://www.amazon.com/Organization-Man-William-H-Whyte/dp/0812218191

    If feminists had taken these books to heart they would have become stay-home-moms.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    Thanks for the information about the book discussed in the documentary film.

    But also I wonder what is the name of the documentary film. I could only find these 3 unlabelled clips in YouTube.

    They are all interesting clips from the same film, with an argument about 1950s American alienation processes in housing, food and corporate life, using mix of interview with reference to popular culture. Maybe there would also be a section about transport.

    Housing

    Fast food

    Corporate life. Although the writer talks about traveling to the office by train and drinking in the train bar. Some very attractive aspects before the highway has fully displaced the train.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry

    My mistake sorry I didn't realize that was a fiction film clip inside a "documentary" film clip. My brain might explode if you post a clip in a clip in a clip. : )

    The thing is it's like the doctor told narrator in fight club. You ought to go to a testicular cancer support group to see people who have Real Problems. There are about a thousand billion or so people in the history of humanity who would sacrifice a finger to be in the position of the organization man or the man in the gray flannel suit. The sad facts are:

    1. money will not buy happiness
    2. the amount of money you have to have to understand this is out of 90% of people's reach even in a modern western economy--this is not something a poor person can learn out of a library book

    You can now post all of the valuable information in MiGFS & OM to twitter in 140 ASCIIs!

  437. @SafeNow
    @songbird

    True, good point. But he wore a pearl-handled revolver, and slapped a GI suffering from shell-shock. Carl Malden, playing Brad, was exasperated by him.

    “Con style” is a useful expression because it encompasses two aspects: (1) The fakeness and dishonesty of the snake-oil salesman; and (2) The deportment of the prison convict (Joan Didion used “con style”in this sense.)

    Replies: @utu, @songbird

    con-man <— confidence
    ex-con <—- convict

  438. @SafeNow
    @songbird

    True, good point. But he wore a pearl-handled revolver, and slapped a GI suffering from shell-shock. Carl Malden, playing Brad, was exasperated by him.

    “Con style” is a useful expression because it encompasses two aspects: (1) The fakeness and dishonesty of the snake-oil salesman; and (2) The deportment of the prison convict (Joan Didion used “con style”in this sense.)

    Replies: @utu, @songbird

    Likely, Patton owed part of his career to the fact that Pershing was courting his sister at the time that the expedition against Pancho Villa was organized.

  439. @Dmitry
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Thanks for the information about the book discussed in the documentary film.

    But also I wonder what is the name of the documentary film. I could only find these 3 unlabelled clips in YouTube.

    They are all interesting clips from the same film, with an argument about 1950s American alienation processes in housing, food and corporate life, using mix of interview with reference to popular culture. Maybe there would also be a section about transport.


    Housing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKTI0wR-a7Q
    Fast food
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZeeLZDWb-s
    Corporate life. Although the writer talks about traveling to the office by train and drinking in the train bar. Some very attractive aspects before the highway has fully displaced the train.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDmVFacinMg

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    My mistake sorry I didn’t realize that was a fiction film clip inside a “documentary” film clip. My brain might explode if you post a clip in a clip in a clip. : )

    The thing is it’s like the doctor told narrator in fight club. You ought to go to a testicular cancer support group to see people who have Real Problems. There are about a thousand billion or so people in the history of humanity who would sacrifice a finger to be in the position of the organization man or the man in the gray flannel suit. The sad facts are:

    1. money will not buy happiness
    2. the amount of money you have to have to understand this is out of 90% of people’s reach even in a modern western economy–this is not something a poor person can learn out of a library book

    You can now post all of the valuable information in MiGFS & OM to twitter in 140 ASCIIs!

  440. @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    He is being frickin autistic. ... Just notice your source file ends in .jpg or .png. The Unz review software does all of the rest.

     

    Sadly not.

    Changes in the last few months make it much more difficult than it used to be. The "Google user content" blogging backbone no longer provides links ending in .jpg or .png.

    How would you embed the humorous image from this article?

    https://ninetymilesfromtyranny.blogspot.com/2021/12/we-will-we-will-mock-you.html

    This link opens but does not embed on UR. Visual inspection does not show an embedded link that can be parsed out.

    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgCpVQtwZNHdeN_wKYsf2Cd9VG96wg-gJh06_wJamcThe7XhNQpFthEKKfe6s_RhaQ1gN72_si6-YD61Xo8t_ilSec2wFx1gQXna7h1HDpqAnQeeGJfmox4c9BI4F7wBr0i7X1HnqdwvLlIlRcCSTccSPpYIqiwFiU5zPWw_wwP7SLQcdXED6rStdZHnw=s718

    Mr. Hack's reverse image search method seems to be necessary for this case.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    This is a close to a variety of work.

    There is only one way I am going to work. I have to get paid.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Max Demian
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is only one way I am going to work. I have to get paid.
     
    You would never, or have never, volunteered?

    Regardless, that is not my concern here. It is, rather, your flippant response to the detailed information posted by A123 concerning the technical details of embedding an image within a comment. Said information would appear to be quite accurate. At a minimum, he is certainly correct that the reality of the matter can be far more complicated, and far less intuitive, than one would think. Whether or not A123 had, as you asserted, exhibited "autism" in his posts on the topic, I see no reason to suspect that they were reflective of anything less benign than an earnest effort to be helpful on his part. Certainly not, as this reply of yours would seem to suggest, any presumed or implied impositions or demands upon anyone.

    Perhaps I have misread your response, and if that is the case, then I apologize. But it comes across to me as gratuitously hostile and rather petty. (If not also ironic; could one not view your response here as itself revealing, or at least suggestive of a need or a trait that could just as easily be characterized, were one so inclined, as "autistic"?)

    The above provides a segue for me to address some of Barbarossa's comments in this thread. I found many of them not only eminently worthy of commendation, but also to be cogent articulations of views and thinking that, at at a minimum, converge considerably with my own. Among those that ticked both of those boxes were Barbarossa's comments lamenting the increased prevalence of the use of the video format to present information that would be better presented in written form (and previously would have been).

    In Comment #221, Barbarossa wrote:


    As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I’ll be looking up some headline and I’ll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can’t be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative.
     
    The relation to the topic of my present reply? Barbarossa had made the post I quoted from above in reply to the statement, made by a different individual, that,

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it.
     
    Barbarossa, as an addendum to his earlier comments addressing the matter of videos vs. writing, wrote to A123,

    I should hasten to add that I wasn’t necessarily seconding Yevardian’s shade towards you. It seemed rather mean spirited and unnecessary.
    The sentence just got me headed on a tangent.
     
    As for A123, his commenting persona presents difficulties, and I find myself somewhat conflicted in my reaction to him. On one hand, his categorical, reflexive, cartoon-like statements concerning Islam, and absurdly indiscriminate hurling of epithets such as "low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo", etc., are, frankly, a rank embarrassment. There is no just no way around this. In mentioning it, I neither derive any pleasure nor am motivated by any malice, resentment, or hostility. On the contrary, there is a certain affable, and fundamentally decent quality about A123 that comes through in a number of his comments. I can easily imagine him making a fine, even exemplary neighbor, co-worker or business partner, for example. (Though would I still feel this way were I to ever, personally, perceive myself as being a target of any of A123's vitriolic bigotry?) And, on some matters at least, I have read comments from A123 in which he appeared to be reasonable, perhaps even to make a point or two that is at least worthy of consideration.

    Replies: @A123

  441. @A123
    @Mikel

    I have a similar opinion of you. You are a naive hater from the The Anti-Person Cult of #NeverTrump. Why are you filled with irrational loathing for Donald Trump? Why do whine & whinge that he failed to achieve the impossible?

    I genuinely do not understand your mouth frothing, gibbering rage at Trump successfully ending two wars (Afghanistan and Syria). Did you really want those wars to continue? What more could your naivety cause you to demand?
    ____

    If you think I am being unfair, please feel free to accept the challenge I laid out for Barbarossa:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5073555

    At least long enough to provide objective facts about what Trump could have actually achieved. Can you let go of your unreasonably naive, fantasy land, dream constructs long enough to do that?

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

    I actually doubt that you really believe some of the stuff you write so debating with you is likely pointless but Trump didn’t even manage to retire the small American contingent from Syria, although he did announce that he was doing it. Twice. On the contrary, he dangerously increased tensions with Russia by attacking its Syrian allies and threatening the Russians themselves. Again, twice. Biden didn’t waste time tweeting. He just decided to take the American troops out of Afghanistan, no matter how loud his own political and media allies in the US protested, and did it.

    Let’s just hope that if DeSantis runs for president, Trump won’t ruin his chances. DeSantis has also proven to be able to do things instead of just tweeting about them.

    • Agree: Barbarossa, iffen
    • Troll: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel


    I actually doubt that you really believe some of the stuff you write so debating with you is likely pointless
     
    I generally mean what I say. As long as you have naive, emotional, anti-factual beliefs about Trump's successes -- debating with you is very difficult. One can only debate with those grounded in reality.

    Trump didn’t even manage to retire the small American contingent from Syria, although he did announce that he was doing it. Twice.
     
    Over Senate and other Deep State resistance -- Trump ended U.S. involvement in active combat in Syria. He moved U.S. forces out of the kill sack between Erdogan's and Assad's armies. So let me ask the 100% serious question again. Why do you #NeverTrump hate rage at Trump for successfully delivering 100% of the achievable gains possible in Syria?

    Do you understand why your perpetual whine track, "Trump is Evil for not Delivering the Impossible!", is highly offensive to sincere Americans?

    Biden didn’t waste time tweeting. He just decided to take the American troops out of Afghanistan, no matter how loud his own political and media allies in the US protested, and did it.
     
    Your personal Great Leader, Not-The-President Biden, blindly & helplessly walked into Gen. SJW Milley's trap. 17 American troops were murdered and thousands of Americans were abandoned. Are you really such #Bidenista that you think letting the Deep State run amok is a "winning"?

    Bottom line -- Trump was highly successful in Afghanistan. He achieved 100% of what was practically achievable. And, he avoided the death toll of your thought leader, Not-The-President Biden.

    Let’s just hope that if DeSantis runs for president, Trump won’t ruin his chances. DeSantis has also proven to be able to do things instead of just tweeting about them.
     
    Lets just hope that when DeSantis runs he embraces Trump's proven, fact based, track record of achieving maximum possible success.

    I am sure he will avoid your gibbering, SJW emotion driven, #NeverTrump hate rage, so no hope required there. DeSantis will not be submissive to your anti-American, Biden♥Harris Globalist fantasies.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    , @iffen
    @Mikel

    We owe our minimal involvement in Syria to former President Obama's slapping down of the plans of slimy, warmongering, Secretary of State H. Clinton. Obamacare being the only other worthwhile accomplishment of his two terms that come to mind.

    I give immense credit to Biden for ending the disaster in Afghanistan. His infrastructure bill will be the only other worthwhile accomplishment of his one term.

  442. Progressives have the wrong idea in trying to turn Santa black. What they should be trying to do is promote different HBD “Santas”, each with their own characteristics and HQ.

    Bantu Santa (base in the Sahara?) would not limit himself to one Mrs. Claus, but would likely have a few “baby mamas.” It is fairly likely that he and they would all have HIV and be kept alive on a cocktail of free drugs from America.

    Whatever he rode would need to be armored underneath in order to protect it from Ak-47s and technicals.

    He would not have a workshop but must needs steal and distribute bags of USAID flour, and you would not get one, if you were from a different tribe.

    Instead of cookies, he would expect shea butter nuts, bugs, and certain body parts from albinos.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  443. @Thulean Friend
    I rarely comment on Ukraine, but one thing if for sure: there has been major progress in recent years.



    Just think back: compared to 2014/15 FX reserves at the NBU are now six times higher, at over $30bn, and providing something like 100% coverage of gross external financing needs. This is a reflection of a much improved BOP position. Compared to 2013 when the current account deficit was a stonking 9.2% of GDP, it was actually in surplus last year at 4% of GDP and is expected to be close to balance this year, before moving into a moderate deficit in 2022 due to the increased cost of energy imports.

    [...]

    The trade turnaround from 2014 is again remarkable, as there has been a complete reset and reorientation from heavy reliance on trade with Russia, to now overwhelming dominance of the EU/UK in trade – a decade earlier two thirds of trade was with Russia, now it is single digits. This has again reduced Ukraine’s vulnerability to economic warfare from Russia.

    [...]

    Public finances are also much improved from 2014, with the quasi-fiscal deficit cut from 8% of GDP, to around 2% of GDP, before the coronavirus (COVID-19) hit, around 6% of GDP last year and expected to be something at or below 5% of GDP in 2021, with the hope of reducing the deficit to something around 3.2% of GDP in 2022. Fiscal restraint/reform, strong debt management and real FX appreciation (still high share of FX debt in the total) have enabled the ratio of general government debt to GDP to decline to something like 55% this year, from a peak of close to 90% in 2015 around the time of the debt restructuring

    [...]

    I also expect further and significant Western financial support for Ukraine – good news yesterday with an additional £1bn from the UK, increasing its export support programme to £3.5bn. I expect other friendly states to follow suit.

     

    As I noted earlier in this thread, I put the odds of an actual invasion to be close to nil. The economic re-orientation towards the West is now all but complete and Ukraine's fiscal position is significantly stronger. The long-term challenge is to stem emigration (long-term migration is starting to stick, it isn't just short-term anymore) and boost fertility, unless Ukraine will stomach immigration of gastarbeiters itself, which will likely come from relatively "unattractive" countries/cultures given its low per capita income.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

    Thanks. Ukrainian wages have now started to catch up the poorest European countries, also. Whereas before Ukraine was only ahead of Moldova and far behind any other country, nowadays Ukraine and Moldova (which has also improved thanks to a more Europe-oriented government) have surpassed Albania, all three Caucasian republics, and are tied with Belarus (adjusted for cost of living, Ukrainian wages now surpass Moldova, Albania, Macedonia, Kosovo, and all three Caucasian Republics though are behind Belarus which is even cheaper).

  444. Watched some travel video of Iran, and it is a big country, I don’t want to mischaracterize it, but the part I saw rather surprised me. Gave me an aura somewhat like Chile, before the social decay set in. And parts of it are quite pretty.

    If I were AaronB, I think I would probably visit it.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird

    My grandparents visited right before the Revolution and really loved it. Beautiful places, nice people.

  445. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    If I were to head an international agency on public health after WHO had gone under because of the COVID agenda, I would institute a global ban on most forms of Americanized pop culture. We need to bankrupt the video game industry, and then seriosuly shrink the comic industry, cartoon/anime industry, and music industry. What China has done with games could be the next Wuhan lockdown, and "democracies" could ostensibly and begrudgingly follow, which they have done in COVID. We could quickly rid ourselves of American imperialist propaganda.

    We could make laws that treat content creators of these media as illegal but non-criminal. The far-right to the LDP in Japan coming to power could grease things up a bit, against decadent, non-bushido youth values. (I hope people knowing Japan well here can weigh in and see whether this is possible)

    The other way of doing it would be set up mandatory youth organizations that take up a considerable portion of the youth's non-school life. The idealized scouts are the perfect antithesis of gamers, comic nerds and weebs.

    Americans might not like it, but Soviet-style music & visual arts, amd a folk culture revival will be excellent replacements for popular entertainment. After all, most direction in pop culture is from an cultural establishment that can be overthrown.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird, @Triteleia Laxa

    Tell me how you’re drowning in self-disgust without saying it.

    Perhaps don’t confuse what changes you feel you need to make in your life with those everyone else has to make?

  446. @songbird
    @AP


    making lampshades out of human skin
     
    Very dubious, not unlike the tales of Germans bayoneting babies in WWI or crucifying an Allied soldier. Don't get what the point is of adding these macabre details. You should hear what some of the racial hustlers say happened during slavery. (Too scatological for Unz)

    Moral relativism seems the ultimate in degeneracy. But I suggest that there should be another term - "WW2 relativism", which is the real ultimate in degeneracy, as I think "moral relativism" doesn't have the same natural appeal to the masses. It does not have countless films and TV that promote it, unlike WW2. People have called "The History Channel", "The WW2 Channel" for good reason.

    What is the moral utility of setting up WW2 as our measuring stick for ethics? I'll grant it has a lot of purchase on people's minds because of the great mortality of it, but what is the effective good of it? We live in the age of the atom, WW2 would not have happened, under those conditions. (not to mention others that predominate now.) So, it is an impossible standard to reach, short of some civilizational collapse or apocalypse, which did not happen during WW2.

    But let's not stop there. What is the effective evil of over-promoting it and using it as our moral yardstick? It is honestly too large for me to fully enumerate here. But it ranges from the small (people with the name "Hitler" desiring an end to their lines), to the very great (the complete erosion of the ethnocentrism of Europeans - ethnocentrism being the only workable defense against invasion - and Europeans easily being some of the greatest and worthiest peoples who have ever lived)

    Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn’t have, even if given the chance to.
     
    Well, we will never find out, as Poland did not have the same population as Germany and could not have attempted to annex any of its neighbors, solo. It did participate in annexation opportunistically, though.
    ___

    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England.
     
    The whole latitudinal range of Quebec is livable in some fashion, as is proved by the Inuit living there. I think you mean arable?

    It is important to understand that corn in 1620 was not the wonder crop that it is today. It was domesticated in Mesoamerica and not well-adapted for cold Northern latitudes as Khrushchev later found out, to his dismay. By now, we do have better varieties, with higher yields. Ireland did not adopt corn, but it did adopt the real wonder crop, the potato.

    OTOH, game is very cold-adopted. Look at a moose breathe out in the freezing cold and likely you will not see a fog. Ducks can stand comfortably on ice, all day long, though they do fly south to get to open water in order to eat, nevertheless, there are many fowl in Canada in the warmer months, hence the name "Canada goose." Quebec, which is 8x larger, no doubt has much more game.

    In the neolithic in Northern Europe, farming was evidently very limited, and hardscrabble. They didn't have the numbers to eliminate the hunter-gatherers but lived in the same countries for thousands of years. The NE of North America must have been filled with hunter-gatherers, especially when you consider Indians were missing many technologies from the neolithic, like pigs and goats. Even the people who grew corn, were likely mainly hunter-gatherers, getting many of their calories from game.

    If anything, I think relative warmth would count against them, as facilitating various factors for disease. Into the early 1900s, the warmer months in Boston were rife with diseases that killed infants. It was not uncommon for the richer people to leave the city, partly to escape the disease. One of my great grandfathers lost seven or eight of his children.

    Replies: @AP

    Moral relativism seems the ultimate in degeneracy.

    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.

    Poland also went through war but Poles did not behave as degenerate Germans and wouldn’t have, even if given the chance to.

    Well, we will never find out, as Poland did not have the same population as Germany and could not have attempted to annex any of its neighbors, solo.

    Poland occupied some Ukrainian and German-inhabited lands. Right after fighting, it placed prisoners in internment camps with a lot of deaths form disease right after the war (the Soviets used this as an excuse for Katyn) but afterward its behavior was heavy-handed and the locals had legitimate grievances, but never rose above that of a milder version of the Jim Crow era South. There was nothing like German or Soviet death camps.

    It did participate in annexation opportunistically, though.

    Sure. It did so in a bloodless operation with the Czechs and without killing any Slovaks.

    Poles were not angels but they were not degenerate monsters as the Germans had become.

    Livable land in Quebec is comparable to that of New England.

    The whole latitudinal range of Quebec is livable in some fashion, as is proved by the Inuit living there. I think you mean arable?

    Areas that can sustain a decent population and that are populated rather than empty woodland. It’s about the same in Quebec as in New England. Yet Quebec has three times more Natives.

    It is important to understand that corn in 1620 was not the wonder crop that it is today. It was domesticated in Mesoamerica and not well-adapted for cold Northern latitudes as Khrushchev later found out, to his dismay.

    If you are suggesting that prior to modern agriculture, Quebec would have been less likely to sustain a large population than New England – then it supports my point. It suggests that prior to European contact there were fewer Natives in Quebec than in warmer New England. This makes the modern day discrepancy even worse – Quebec went from having far fewer natives prior to European contact, to three times more now. The difference between having had to deal with French Catholics versus English Protestants.

  447. @songbird
    Watched some travel video of Iran, and it is a big country, I don't want to mischaracterize it, but the part I saw rather surprised me. Gave me an aura somewhat like Chile, before the social decay set in. And parts of it are quite pretty.

    If I were AaronB, I think I would probably visit it.

    Replies: @AP

    My grandparents visited right before the Revolution and really loved it. Beautiful places, nice people.

  448. @sher singh
    @AP

    NERD, stop. Also murder is based but gayness is not|| Your nerdtales & argument have 0 IRL impact.
    The 3 comment per hour rule was made for niggas like you, r u opening gas station in QC or maine?

    Incredibly homosex that u latch onto a topic and don't stop past point of reasonableness||U hv autism.
    Thoughts anyone? https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1439993130728583177?s=20

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Thoughts anyone? https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1439993130728583177?s=20

    I think that this is a pretty fair assessment as far as it goes. Another principle difference is that Western Christianity has been slowly sapped of institutional power over several hundred years because of it’s long interaction with liberalism/ state primacy.

    Islam effectively jumps into the modern age without undergoing the lengthy weakening process and so has a much stronger hold on it’s adherents. I would say that the difference is more of historical situation than actual composition.

    This also explains why the Orthodox Churches do not have quite the same issues as Western Christianity, although many of them were quite damaged undergoing the crushing cultural trauma of Communism.

    • Thanks: sher singh
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I understand that a lot of TradCaths dislike Orthodox because their patriarchs have supposedly endorsed birth control, which is seen as tacit support for feminism and the sexual revolution.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  449. @Thulean Friend
    I rarely comment on Ukraine, but one thing if for sure: there has been major progress in recent years.



    Just think back: compared to 2014/15 FX reserves at the NBU are now six times higher, at over $30bn, and providing something like 100% coverage of gross external financing needs. This is a reflection of a much improved BOP position. Compared to 2013 when the current account deficit was a stonking 9.2% of GDP, it was actually in surplus last year at 4% of GDP and is expected to be close to balance this year, before moving into a moderate deficit in 2022 due to the increased cost of energy imports.

    [...]

    The trade turnaround from 2014 is again remarkable, as there has been a complete reset and reorientation from heavy reliance on trade with Russia, to now overwhelming dominance of the EU/UK in trade – a decade earlier two thirds of trade was with Russia, now it is single digits. This has again reduced Ukraine’s vulnerability to economic warfare from Russia.

    [...]

    Public finances are also much improved from 2014, with the quasi-fiscal deficit cut from 8% of GDP, to around 2% of GDP, before the coronavirus (COVID-19) hit, around 6% of GDP last year and expected to be something at or below 5% of GDP in 2021, with the hope of reducing the deficit to something around 3.2% of GDP in 2022. Fiscal restraint/reform, strong debt management and real FX appreciation (still high share of FX debt in the total) have enabled the ratio of general government debt to GDP to decline to something like 55% this year, from a peak of close to 90% in 2015 around the time of the debt restructuring

    [...]

    I also expect further and significant Western financial support for Ukraine – good news yesterday with an additional £1bn from the UK, increasing its export support programme to £3.5bn. I expect other friendly states to follow suit.

     

    As I noted earlier in this thread, I put the odds of an actual invasion to be close to nil. The economic re-orientation towards the West is now all but complete and Ukraine's fiscal position is significantly stronger. The long-term challenge is to stem emigration (long-term migration is starting to stick, it isn't just short-term anymore) and boost fertility, unless Ukraine will stomach immigration of gastarbeiters itself, which will likely come from relatively "unattractive" countries/cultures given its low per capita income.

    Replies: @AP, @LatW

    Ukraine

    Some decent startups that have Ukrainian founders and CEOs are GitLab (DevOps, \$11B valuation), Grammarly (AI, over \$10B valuation), Preply (learning platform that’s gaining traction).

    As to guestworkers, they could be from Vietnam. Although as you wrote, Vietnam, too, is advancing.

    Btw, interesting fact, there used to be Vietnamese guest workers in the SU in the 1980s.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW

    However, unlike EU countries, Ukraine is behaving like Russia with dominance of relocation for the successful startups outside Ukraine. This is a sign of the problems of the local political, regulatory, financial environment, of almost all the postsoviet space except Baltic states.

    https://i.imgur.com/CS7oOBD.jpg

    There is funding for Ukrainian entrepreneurs, but the majority of relocated outside. For the venture capital Ukraine is halfway like the situation in Russia, where there are successful money attracting entrepreneurs, which establish outside the country more than inside.

    Whereas more promising examples for becoming a destination for startups, are Estonia and Lithuania, which have good levels of funding and mainly still base domestically.

    https://i.imgur.com/Zwm4erT.jpg

    Estonia has the combination of the entrepreneurs and the safe enough of property rights, politics and legal regulation, that they could become an attractive place for startups.

    That said, obviously Ukraine are one of the world leaders (world leader per capita?) in other areas of the industry, like attracting IT outsourcing, which is helped by the lower cost of salaries and doesn't need such stable legal and political frameworks.

    Replies: @LatW

  450. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    Kaspersky is an example where the revenue of the company has fallen relative to inflation, over the last years. Potentially it could have been one of the world’s successful companies, however, it is also integrated with Russian government services like FSB, which limits its export value.
     
    Most MIC-related companies are integrated with their respective countries intelligence networks, or that of a broader alliance structure, e.g. NATO.

    I think a bigger problem for Russian firms is that Chinese MIC is now virtually on par with Russia in most areas except engines. In areas like avionics or electronics, it is already ahead. India is ramping up indigenisation efforts along with a greater shift towards US imports. These are traditionally the two main clients of Russian MIC, which must necessarily affect companies downstream such as Kaspersky. The domestic market cannot compensate for weakness of export orders.

    From what I have read, a recurring complaint that the Indians had is that Russian equipment is often good but after-sale services like maintenance has been much poorer. This is apparently not just an Indian complaint.

    More broadly, I think Russia is still too invested in "old" industries. These still matter, but they are not fast-growing. As I noted earlier, my conception of long-term prosperity is innovation and technological progress. The fastest-growing areas are going to be connected to where there is most innovation. That is where China and USA are the strongest, with Europe picking up pace in recent years (though still making up for lost ground).


    Pavel Durov says he can’t even visit his family in Russia, but they have to meet in third countries. This is because he believes he would be imprisoned if he enters Russia. So there is the limit of the informatics industry, but from the view of the rulers, should they care about this? Probably not.
     
    To the question of why Russia can't have these firms, you are providing the answer. It's not lack of capability, it's a social/political choice to some extent.

    And likely the limit in Brazil will be similar. International investors are worried about the corruption in Petrobras and that this kind of reason Brazil doesn’t climb to the developed world. But from the view of the rulers in Brazil, perhaps corruption is the raison d’être of Petrobras. After all this, they are not living badly. They have probably a better life, than anyone in the world.
     
    I agree with this, but I don't think it explains it all. There is a human capital component to this puzzle. But yes, Latinx elites seem to be more content to enjoying the good life by relying on traditional industries such as agricultural exports, tied with land ownership. This is convenient, since it is hereditary and thus requires little effort or innovation. It also seamlessly blocks outsiders who could shake up these industries, slowing or outright blocking competition, which provides monopoly rents. Bad for the country but good for the landed gentry. That's a major reason why Argentina fell behind the West, to relate to a previous discussion.

    You could have seen (even up to 5 years ago) that companies like BYD and Geely are going to be successful. Although I guess now they would be considered overvalued with the current prices.
     
    The entire stock market is massively overvalued. I haven't invested in anything since 2019. I toyed with the idea of investing in BYD back in 2015, and I sometimes wonder if I made a mistake in not doing so. So far it appears I did, but my horizon is decades and not years, and I believed back then as now that the political risk would eventually gain the upper hand. OTOH, BYD is unique among Chinese firms in that US investors control a very large share, which might either make it less risky or more so (from the PoV of Beijing), depending on your view.

    More generally, I think a bigger problem is that companies go public later and later in their life cycle, which limits the earliest and strongest gains to a few insider private equity firms and VCs. That's almost a democratic problem. Companies should go public as early as possible, which would allow the returns to be more evenly distributed among a larger share of the population. This is a major problem in Western capitalism that has shifted significantly in recent decades and remains underreported. Apple and Microsoft, by comparison, went public much faster and thus made it easier for normal investors to gain from stock ownership far earlier. These days, unicorns stay private for longer in part since private VC capital is far more ubiquitous, with the downside that gains are concentrated in a few hands of insiders.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @LatW

    It’s not lack of capability, it’s a social/political choice

    Right, and this political aspect actually impacts capability because Pavel Durov alone returning wouldn’t be enough. There would be a need to import more higher level operators. For instance, in Brazil where there has been a recent fintech boom, the founders are often LatAm entrepreneurs who have returned from the States, or expats, but they still need to hire all the higher level executives and many techies from all over the world. Russia could benefit from such as well, while they do have their own talented peeps it just wouldn’t be enough to create something on the level of, let’s say, Uber or AliExpress. Or even somewhat smaller but globally competitive startups.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    all over the world. Russia could benefit from

     

    Hundreds of the Russian engineers (mainly software engineers) immigrate to just Republic of Ireland every year. Russia is feeding the world with specialists.

    It's not lack of educated workers in Russia (supply is larger than demand), but unsuitable legal, political, social conditions.

    That is, Russia has more than enough talented and educated people and doesn't need to import that. But it would be to import not people, but the stable regulatory, political environment, property rights and international relations. While from the political level, this would be undesirable.

    This isn't not only "little middle class people" like engineers, or people who are viewed as enemies of the Kremlin like Durov.

    Even in the political class. For example, there was a Kremlin official, who has run this "Yotafon" project, that many perceived as a "vapourware". Maybe politics nerds like you remember from Sobchak's debate between Navalny vs Chubais (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsoIcQYlPxg.) and Chubais has a mysterious (Yota?) device in the suitcase.

    Well I was surprising to read London media this year, that he is now a billionaire, after emigrating to Oxford.


    Billionaire Denis Sverdlov scores 3,000% gain through electric vehicle SPAC

    Denis Sverdlov, a former Russian deputy minister, was already a wealthy man from a telecom startup when he turned his attention to electric vehicles and founded Arrival Ltd. in 2015.

    Arrival, which has yet to begin full production, is now worth $15.3 billion, more than double its valuation at the start of last year. Sverdlov, 42, who’ll control most of the London-based company’s stock once the deal is completed, will soon have a net worth of $11.7 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/billionaire-scores-3-000-gain-through-electric-vehicle-spac
     

    So it's "important people" and "inside", are growing billions of dollars in fields outside Oxford. If I recall he decided to resign as a minister of communications in 2013.

    Replies: @LatW

  451. @LatW
    @Thulean Friend


    Ukraine
     
    Some decent startups that have Ukrainian founders and CEOs are GitLab (DevOps, $11B valuation), Grammarly (AI, over $10B valuation), Preply (learning platform that's gaining traction).

    As to guestworkers, they could be from Vietnam. Although as you wrote, Vietnam, too, is advancing.

    Btw, interesting fact, there used to be Vietnamese guest workers in the SU in the 1980s.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    However, unlike EU countries, Ukraine is behaving like Russia with dominance of relocation for the successful startups outside Ukraine. This is a sign of the problems of the local political, regulatory, financial environment, of almost all the postsoviet space except Baltic states.

    There is funding for Ukrainian entrepreneurs, but the majority of relocated outside. For the venture capital Ukraine is halfway like the situation in Russia, where there are successful money attracting entrepreneurs, which establish outside the country more than inside.

    Whereas more promising examples for becoming a destination for startups, are Estonia and Lithuania, which have good levels of funding and mainly still base domestically.

    Estonia has the combination of the entrepreneurs and the safe enough of property rights, politics and legal regulation, that they could become an attractive place for startups.

    That said, obviously Ukraine are one of the world leaders (world leader per capita?) in other areas of the industry, like attracting IT outsourcing, which is helped by the lower cost of salaries and doesn’t need such stable legal and political frameworks.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry

    A lot of these startups simply need to expand overseas for business opportunity. Maybe the Estonian Transferwise moved to the UK for legal reasons, but Bolt, for instance, is a rideshare company that physically needs to be in as many markets as possible. They've expanded in Africa. Pipedrive which is CRM management software can have offices in Estonia, the UK & the US. It depends. The Latvian Printful has its factories in the US because it's closer to the market, it makes sense. But they also have a factory in Latvia (and they started out as a Latvian version of FB). I think the owner also likes the US. Whereas companies like Tesonet in Lithuania don't need to move as it's just software, not e-commerce. But I understand what you mean.

  452. @Mikel
    @A123

    I actually doubt that you really believe some of the stuff you write so debating with you is likely pointless but Trump didn't even manage to retire the small American contingent from Syria, although he did announce that he was doing it. Twice. On the contrary, he dangerously increased tensions with Russia by attacking its Syrian allies and threatening the Russians themselves. Again, twice. Biden didn't waste time tweeting. He just decided to take the American troops out of Afghanistan, no matter how loud his own political and media allies in the US protested, and did it.

    Let's just hope that if DeSantis runs for president, Trump won't ruin his chances. DeSantis has also proven to be able to do things instead of just tweeting about them.

    Replies: @A123, @iffen

    I actually doubt that you really believe some of the stuff you write so debating with you is likely pointless

    I generally mean what I say. As long as you have naive, emotional, anti-factual beliefs about Trump’s successes — debating with you is very difficult. One can only debate with those grounded in reality.

    Trump didn’t even manage to retire the small American contingent from Syria, although he did announce that he was doing it. Twice.

    Over Senate and other Deep State resistance — Trump ended U.S. involvement in active combat in Syria. He moved U.S. forces out of the kill sack between Erdogan’s and Assad’s armies. So let me ask the 100% serious question again. Why do you #NeverTrump hate rage at Trump for successfully delivering 100% of the achievable gains possible in Syria?

    Do you understand why your perpetual whine track, “Trump is Evil for not Delivering the Impossible!”, is highly offensive to sincere Americans?

    Biden didn’t waste time tweeting. He just decided to take the American troops out of Afghanistan, no matter how loud his own political and media allies in the US protested, and did it.

    Your personal Great Leader, Not-The-President Biden, blindly & helplessly walked into Gen. SJW Milley’s trap. 17 American troops were murdered and thousands of Americans were abandoned. Are you really such #Bidenista that you think letting the Deep State run amok is a “winning”?

    Bottom line — Trump was highly successful in Afghanistan. He achieved 100% of what was practically achievable. And, he avoided the death toll of your thought leader, Not-The-President Biden.

    Let’s just hope that if DeSantis runs for president, Trump won’t ruin his chances. DeSantis has also proven to be able to do things instead of just tweeting about them.

    Lets just hope that when DeSantis runs he embraces Trump’s proven, fact based, track record of achieving maximum possible success.

    I am sure he will avoid your gibbering, SJW emotion driven, #NeverTrump hate rage, so no hope required there. DeSantis will not be submissive to your anti-American, Biden♥Harris Globalist fantasies.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

  453. @LatW
    @Thulean Friend


    It's not lack of capability, it's a social/political choice
     
    Right, and this political aspect actually impacts capability because Pavel Durov alone returning wouldn't be enough. There would be a need to import more higher level operators. For instance, in Brazil where there has been a recent fintech boom, the founders are often LatAm entrepreneurs who have returned from the States, or expats, but they still need to hire all the higher level executives and many techies from all over the world. Russia could benefit from such as well, while they do have their own talented peeps it just wouldn't be enough to create something on the level of, let's say, Uber or AliExpress. Or even somewhat smaller but globally competitive startups.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    all over the world. Russia could benefit from

    Hundreds of the Russian engineers (mainly software engineers) immigrate to just Republic of Ireland every year. Russia is feeding the world with specialists.

    It’s not lack of educated workers in Russia (supply is larger than demand), but unsuitable legal, political, social conditions.

    That is, Russia has more than enough talented and educated people and doesn’t need to import that. But it would be to import not people, but the stable regulatory, political environment, property rights and international relations. While from the political level, this would be undesirable.

    This isn’t not only “little middle class people” like engineers, or people who are viewed as enemies of the Kremlin like Durov.

    Even in the political class. For example, there was a Kremlin official, who has run this “Yotafon” project, that many perceived as a “vapourware”. Maybe politics nerds like you remember from Sobchak’s debate between Navalny vs Chubais (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsoIcQYlPxg.) and Chubais has a mysterious (Yota?) device in the suitcase.

    Well I was surprising to read London media this year, that he is now a billionaire, after emigrating to Oxford.

    Billionaire Denis Sverdlov scores 3,000% gain through electric vehicle SPAC

    Denis Sverdlov, a former Russian deputy minister, was already a wealthy man from a telecom startup when he turned his attention to electric vehicles and founded Arrival Ltd. in 2015.

    Arrival, which has yet to begin full production, is now worth \$15.3 billion, more than double its valuation at the start of last year. Sverdlov, 42, who’ll control most of the London-based company’s stock once the deal is completed, will soon have a net worth of \$11.7 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/billionaire-scores-3-000-gain-through-electric-vehicle-spac

    So it’s “important people” and “inside”, are growing billions of dollars in fields outside Oxford. If I recall he decided to resign as a minister of communications in 2013.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Russia has more than enough talented and educated people
     
    Agree, and the ones abroad are well known. The founder of Revolut is Russian (with a Ukrainian co-founder, with a large office in Lithuania). And there are many out there. However, to build and scale a global business on the level of Uber and similar.... how many Russian executives are out there who are hands on enough to have done that? Not as many. And if they have they could work anywhere. So to build at the level of Amazon and such, or even to, let's say, move Yandex beyond Russia and just Russophone consumers like the Americans, the British and the Chinese have done with their companies would probably require some international talent. Ideally, they should repatriate the talent to help out the Russian companies the way it's happening with some Chinese.

    Otherwise, I do agree with your main points.



    Btw. Speaking of the legal environment. Morgenshtern just put out a new video out of Dubai on this topic with lyrics such as "You can take my business, but you can't take my happiness", "I left Russia because it got too cold there".

    And as you say, changing the legal and political environment would be undesirable for the current establishment. On the one hand they're preserving their "values" but in some ways they're also holding Russia down.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  454. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    However, unlike EU countries, Ukraine is behaving like Russia with dominance of relocation for the successful startups outside Ukraine. This is a sign of the problems of the local political, regulatory, financial environment, of almost all the postsoviet space except Baltic states.

    https://i.imgur.com/CS7oOBD.jpg

    There is funding for Ukrainian entrepreneurs, but the majority of relocated outside. For the venture capital Ukraine is halfway like the situation in Russia, where there are successful money attracting entrepreneurs, which establish outside the country more than inside.

    Whereas more promising examples for becoming a destination for startups, are Estonia and Lithuania, which have good levels of funding and mainly still base domestically.

    https://i.imgur.com/Zwm4erT.jpg

    Estonia has the combination of the entrepreneurs and the safe enough of property rights, politics and legal regulation, that they could become an attractive place for startups.

    That said, obviously Ukraine are one of the world leaders (world leader per capita?) in other areas of the industry, like attracting IT outsourcing, which is helped by the lower cost of salaries and doesn't need such stable legal and political frameworks.

    Replies: @LatW

    A lot of these startups simply need to expand overseas for business opportunity. Maybe the Estonian Transferwise moved to the UK for legal reasons, but Bolt, for instance, is a rideshare company that physically needs to be in as many markets as possible. They’ve expanded in Africa. Pipedrive which is CRM management software can have offices in Estonia, the UK & the US. It depends. The Latvian Printful has its factories in the US because it’s closer to the market, it makes sense. But they also have a factory in Latvia (and they started out as a Latvian version of FB). I think the owner also likes the US. Whereas companies like Tesonet in Lithuania don’t need to move as it’s just software, not e-commerce. But I understand what you mean.

  455. Just from YouTube. This girl is paying \$4,320/month rent for a small apartment (kind of IKEA apartment) in Jersey City on the border with New York.

    High rise view is beautiful, but it gives an impression than city US housing can have areas which are becoming like London or Hong Kong. \$51,840 per year of rent for such a small apartment.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry

    That is insane to pay that much money and have nothing to show for it. I live in the middle of nowhere and I have 50 acres, two houses, and a 36,000 sq. ft shop for about $800 a month in mortgage. Even if one factors in property taxes, it's still about $1600 a month. It's a very different set of priorities, certainly, but at least I will have something for my children. That is what strikes me most about the video, the complete lack of past or future. It's all about the now.

    Also, WTF is a "Cultural Strategist" ? Is she strategizing a culture of infinite godless sterility?

    Replies: @Dmitry

  456. @Jatt Aryaa
    @Barbarossa

    https://archive.md/8coSw
    Social matter archive - Liberation means submission to progressive identity

    https://archive.md/6Ydhb
    Social matter - women's liberation is prostitution

    Everything is q of who has power over who.
    Freedom is being subject to a certain set of Anglo norms & institutions
    Just read through it, and ask questions.
    Let's get back to an intellectual board instead of the pointless ethnic kanging

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180202082106/https://reactionaryfuture.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/the-common-root-of-all-modern-political-discourse/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Thanks for the links. You are preaching to the choir here though since I’m in full agreement.

    Ethnic rivalries are pretty pointless if everyone ends up the same undifferentiated mushy consumer in the end. Russia or Ukraine is a pointless distinction if they both revolve around the worship of blue jeans, pop music, and McDonalds.

    The principle difficulty of being in the West is that most cultural identity has already been jettisoned. “3rd world” countries are better off in a way because they still preserve culture and religion as things to be taken seriously and defended, not just as lifestyles or hobbies.

  457. @Barbarossa
    @sher singh


    Thoughts anyone? https://twitter.com/Hindu_OSINT/status/1439993130728583177?s=20
     
    I think that this is a pretty fair assessment as far as it goes. Another principle difference is that Western Christianity has been slowly sapped of institutional power over several hundred years because of it's long interaction with liberalism/ state primacy.

    Islam effectively jumps into the modern age without undergoing the lengthy weakening process and so has a much stronger hold on it's adherents. I would say that the difference is more of historical situation than actual composition.

    This also explains why the Orthodox Churches do not have quite the same issues as Western Christianity, although many of them were quite damaged undergoing the crushing cultural trauma of Communism.

    Replies: @songbird

    I understand that a lot of TradCaths dislike Orthodox because their patriarchs have supposedly endorsed birth control, which is seen as tacit support for feminism and the sexual revolution.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    There are a lot of Orthodox jurisdictions and they often do not have the strictly delineated lines that the RC Church has. I would say that the Orthodox Churches broadly agree that marriage and sex are for procreation and that should not be impinged upon. However, the lack of systematic definitions of exactly what is prohibited, when, and how may lead to wider ranging interpretations occasionally.

    Having been brought up around TradCaths (we went the the Latin Mass for a while as a kid) I can say that it's probable that many of these would be driven into a frothing rage just by the lack of a 21 page systematic definition.

    Replies: @songbird

  458. @Dmitry
    Just from YouTube. This girl is paying $4,320/month rent for a small apartment (kind of IKEA apartment) in Jersey City on the border with New York.

    High rise view is beautiful, but it gives an impression than city US housing can have areas which are becoming like London or Hong Kong. $51,840 per year of rent for such a small apartment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5oezU5MV6A

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    That is insane to pay that much money and have nothing to show for it. I live in the middle of nowhere and I have 50 acres, two houses, and a 36,000 sq. ft shop for about \$800 a month in mortgage. Even if one factors in property taxes, it’s still about \$1600 a month. It’s a very different set of priorities, certainly, but at least I will have something for my children. That is what strikes me most about the video, the complete lack of past or future. It’s all about the now.

    Also, WTF is a “Cultural Strategist” ? Is she strategizing a culture of infinite godless sterility?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    “Cultural Strategist” ? Is she
     
    I don't know this term, but I guess it is "management consultancy". Like Accenture has a branch of the industry "Accenture Consulting".

    Accenture Consulting has some branches relating to the strategy and culture in the businesses, with all kinds of specialists. In Accenture, they obsessed about "strategy". The idea of being a "strategist" sounds like you are a Greek military commander, but probably it refers to office plankton in that branch of Accenture.

    Because they give consultancy and training including areas like leadership, organizational culture, etc. Some sessions from consultants can be helpful, most feel like waste of time. But all in general it makes employees feel important in some way, if only because of feeling the employer has excess funds.


    nsane to pay that much money and have nothing to show for it.
     
    Her rent is $51,840 per year and she has only a small apartment, and not even inside New York. It's crazy expensive for American standards?

    But whether it makes sense from "personal finance", I guess depends on their income. The normal advice is to pay around 1/5th of income for rent.

    If her and boyfriend's income is above $250,000 per year, then they might be feeling not too bad. The question she doesn't explain is which salary do you receive as a 27 year old "Cultural Strategist" in America today?

  459. @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I understand that a lot of TradCaths dislike Orthodox because their patriarchs have supposedly endorsed birth control, which is seen as tacit support for feminism and the sexual revolution.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    There are a lot of Orthodox jurisdictions and they often do not have the strictly delineated lines that the RC Church has. I would say that the Orthodox Churches broadly agree that marriage and sex are for procreation and that should not be impinged upon. However, the lack of systematic definitions of exactly what is prohibited, when, and how may lead to wider ranging interpretations occasionally.

    Having been brought up around TradCaths (we went the the Latin Mass for a while as a kid) I can say that it’s probable that many of these would be driven into a frothing rage just by the lack of a 21 page systematic definition.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I can say that it’s probable that many of these would be driven into a frothing rage just by the lack of a 21 page systematic definition.
     
    LOL. I do get the idea that many are autists - not that there is anything wrong with that.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  460. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    all over the world. Russia could benefit from

     

    Hundreds of the Russian engineers (mainly software engineers) immigrate to just Republic of Ireland every year. Russia is feeding the world with specialists.

    It's not lack of educated workers in Russia (supply is larger than demand), but unsuitable legal, political, social conditions.

    That is, Russia has more than enough talented and educated people and doesn't need to import that. But it would be to import not people, but the stable regulatory, political environment, property rights and international relations. While from the political level, this would be undesirable.

    This isn't not only "little middle class people" like engineers, or people who are viewed as enemies of the Kremlin like Durov.

    Even in the political class. For example, there was a Kremlin official, who has run this "Yotafon" project, that many perceived as a "vapourware". Maybe politics nerds like you remember from Sobchak's debate between Navalny vs Chubais (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsoIcQYlPxg.) and Chubais has a mysterious (Yota?) device in the suitcase.

    Well I was surprising to read London media this year, that he is now a billionaire, after emigrating to Oxford.


    Billionaire Denis Sverdlov scores 3,000% gain through electric vehicle SPAC

    Denis Sverdlov, a former Russian deputy minister, was already a wealthy man from a telecom startup when he turned his attention to electric vehicles and founded Arrival Ltd. in 2015.

    Arrival, which has yet to begin full production, is now worth $15.3 billion, more than double its valuation at the start of last year. Sverdlov, 42, who’ll control most of the London-based company’s stock once the deal is completed, will soon have a net worth of $11.7 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/billionaire-scores-3-000-gain-through-electric-vehicle-spac
     

    So it's "important people" and "inside", are growing billions of dollars in fields outside Oxford. If I recall he decided to resign as a minister of communications in 2013.

    Replies: @LatW

    Russia has more than enough talented and educated people

    Agree, and the ones abroad are well known. The founder of Revolut is Russian (with a Ukrainian co-founder, with a large office in Lithuania). And there are many out there. However, to build and scale a global business on the level of Uber and similar…. how many Russian executives are out there who are hands on enough to have done that? Not as many. And if they have they could work anywhere. So to build at the level of Amazon and such, or even to, let’s say, move Yandex beyond Russia and just Russophone consumers like the Americans, the British and the Chinese have done with their companies would probably require some international talent. Ideally, they should repatriate the talent to help out the Russian companies the way it’s happening with some Chinese.

    Otherwise, I do agree with your main points.

    [MORE]

    Btw. Speaking of the legal environment. Morgenshtern just put out a new video out of Dubai on this topic with lyrics such as “You can take my business, but you can’t take my happiness”, “I left Russia because it got too cold there”.

    And as you say, changing the legal and political environment would be undesirable for the current establishment. On the one hand they’re preserving their “values” but in some ways they’re also holding Russia down.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Morgenshtern just put out a new video

     

    Lol with Abdurozik, nemesis of Kadyrov's Hasbik. So something to support your theory.
    https://lenta.ru/news/2021/07/26/hasbik2/ .

    And he even 1:04 what we were saying last open thread about how this story was louder than Oxxxymiron's comeback. Like he is copying our last discussion thread for lyrics inspiration.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8y3z-I9VP4


    Oxxymiron's album has a song implicitly against Morgenshtern. And in this song also saying that we don't have real gangster rap, because being a gangster is the prerogative of government (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyrBuSbFP2Y.). And authorities seems to indicate they will not complain https://www.gazeta.ru/culture/news/2021/12/04/n_16964299.shtml

    So really Oxxxymiron is probably won't be popular enough for them to care. It's like pressing on Oxxxymiron would be a waste of time, not enough masses even know him. Meanwhile Surkov was using Oxxxymiron lyrics in official speeches.


    yrics such as “You can take my business, but you can’t take my happiness”, “I left Russia because it got too cold there”.
     
    I don't think he can really escape, not just because he relies on the Russian domestic market, but because he is so famous. They might ask Interpol.

    I guess he has some bargaining leverage of public opinion, as the extortion became too open. After the YouTube interview with Gordon this summer he said that they would give him money in exchange for pro-Putin songs.


    preserving their “values” but in some ways they’re also holding Russia down.
     
    Sure to understate from an external perspective. But from their interest, you have to hold a sheep down, to harvest it for wool. You have to lock the chickens' cage, so your animals don't escape in the night.

    An interesting question is to what extent this priority of control can diverge from even other cynical things like maximizing GDP, that America's elite might prioritize.

    Russia's GDP is lower today than it was in 2008. That's almost 12 years with net negative economic growth. But if you look at how self-happy Chubais was when in the debate with Navalny, you would imagine the opposite of the reality. Chubais really does not seem worried about the GDP. Which is sensible emotionally, as the current economic level, can provide an unimaginable comfort for the ruling class, if only they can continue as the ruling class. Of course, the control should be priority for them.

  461. @AP
    @songbird


    These studies exclude the Métis people (there are nearly 600,000 of them in Canada).

    In America, these people call themselves Indians.
     
    No, there are also Indians in Canada, including Quebec. The Metis are Mestizos; they are analogous to Coloreds in South Africa but there is no equivalent in Anglo North America.

    There are nearly 90,000 Indians in Quebec (this does not include Inuit in the North and the Métis). How many in the land of the Puritans in New England? Only 8,600 in Maine, 2,132 in Vermont, 2,036 in New Hampshire, 14,764 in Massachusetts, 9,900 in Connecticut. The Puritan Calvinists just wiped them out, unlike the French Catholics. Upstate New York has only 36,200 Natives.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    14,764 in Massachusetts

    Curious, on the 2010 census, there were 37,000. Are you sure you didn’t count households?

    https://historyofmassachusetts.org/native-american-tribes/

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird

    That's the number google gave, but it can be found in various links:

    https://data.thetowntalk.com/american-community-survey/block-group-1-census-tract-12602-barnstable-county-massachusetts/population/indian/num/15000US250010126021/

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2021/12/03/the-number-of-native-americans-in-every-state/6/

    https://www.facebook.com/assabetrivernwr/photos/indigenous-land-seriesthe-indigenous-people-of-massachusetts-have-been-on-this-l/4161150873909723/

    Maybe the lower number is those who claim it as primary ancestry and the higher those who claim any ancestry?

    Edit: Yes, the lower figure was probably for primary ancestry, presumably in 2010.

    2020 census:

    https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/massachusetts-population-change-between-census-decade.html

    Those who claimed native only ancestry were .3% of MA. That's 21,000 people (a large increase from nearly 15,000 in 2010). The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.

    Replies: @songbird

  462. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    There are a lot of Orthodox jurisdictions and they often do not have the strictly delineated lines that the RC Church has. I would say that the Orthodox Churches broadly agree that marriage and sex are for procreation and that should not be impinged upon. However, the lack of systematic definitions of exactly what is prohibited, when, and how may lead to wider ranging interpretations occasionally.

    Having been brought up around TradCaths (we went the the Latin Mass for a while as a kid) I can say that it's probable that many of these would be driven into a frothing rage just by the lack of a 21 page systematic definition.

    Replies: @songbird

    I can say that it’s probable that many of these would be driven into a frothing rage just by the lack of a 21 page systematic definition.

    LOL. I do get the idea that many are autists – not that there is anything wrong with that.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    I should be clear that I still have a large amount of affinity and respect for a lot of traditionalist Catholics. They are certainly going in broadly the right direction. However, the stereotype of the RC Church and traditionalists in particular, being addicted to hairsplitting rules and definitions does have grounding in reality.

    That seems like a rather large obstacle when dealing with matters like the Divine that are definitionally beyond the scope of limited human comprehension. This is one reason that I think that Eastern theology has some strengths the West lacks; they rely much more heavily on the symbolic as a representation of things undefinable. They are often more comfortable with a certain degree of uncertainty and mystery surrounding the Divine.

  463. @songbird
    @AP


    14,764 in Massachusetts
     
    Curious, on the 2010 census, there were 37,000. Are you sure you didn't count households?

    https://historyofmassachusetts.org/native-american-tribes/

    Replies: @AP

    That’s the number google gave, but it can be found in various links:

    https://data.thetowntalk.com/american-community-survey/block-group-1-census-tract-12602-barnstable-county-massachusetts/population/indian/num/15000US250010126021/

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2021/12/03/the-number-of-native-americans-in-every-state/6/

    https://www.facebook.com/assabetrivernwr/photos/indigenous-land-seriesthe-indigenous-people-of-massachusetts-have-been-on-this-l/4161150873909723/

    Maybe the lower number is those who claim it as primary ancestry and the higher those who claim any ancestry?

    Edit: Yes, the lower figure was probably for primary ancestry, presumably in 2010.

    2020 census:

    https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/massachusetts-population-change-between-census-decade.html

    Those who claimed native only ancestry were .3% of MA. That’s 21,000 people (a large increase from nearly 15,000 in 2010). The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.
     
    Same phenomenon in Canada, I am sure.

    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.
     
    I want to expand a bit on what I see as some of the failings of WW2-relativism here:

    In the past, people were wont to invoke the Devil. I won't say that they always did it morally, but, at least "Devil" is a fairly neutral and humble word, in and of itself. It does not speak to faction, or ethnicity, there is no pretense of scholarship. The humble fieldhand and rich landlord can use it both alike, frequently without a hint of seeking power or status from each other. In a way, referencing the Devil is making an indirect reference to God.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to "Hitler"predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European. When, they are usually seeking status or power unto themselves, from others. When they stroke their own ego, with a false sense of scholarship and virtue in knowing a name that is even drilled into the heads of people with a sub 70 IQ.

    Of course, there are other variants. I don't want to say that these negative identities all focus on Hitler. Indians who are invading the UK will evoke Churchill. People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died. And I don't want to say that it is all about WW2 (though, that is their predominant focus).

    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don't argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn't help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.

    I'm not sure so much false pride has ever existed in so many people before, in so big an alliance for evil, as come from these negative identities, which I think could only originate from modern materialism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @AP

  464. Let’s go Branda! Oh, this is just delicious, learning to stop worrying and loving the Trump now, dedicated specially to A123 out there, lol:

    Former President Donald Trump urged his supporters on Sunday to get a booster shot of one of the COVID-19 vaccines to protect themselves against the Omicron variant, telling them they were “playing right into their hands” by doubting the vaccines.

    Sitting alongside the former Fox News host Bill O’Reilly at a stadium in Dallas, Trump touted his administration’s contribution toward developing the vaccines as part of Operation Warp Speed.

    “Look, we did something that was historic,” he said. “We saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. We, together, all of us, not me.”

    He added that without the vaccine, millions more people would have died from the virus.

    “I think this would have been the Spanish flu of 1917, where up to 100 million people died,” he said. “This was going to ravage the country far beyond what it is right now.”

    He then told his supporters to “take credit” for the vaccine, saying they shouldn’t “let them take it away.”

    “You’re playing right into their hands when you’re sort of, like, ‘Oh, the vaccine,’” he said, referring to those of his supporters who have expressed hesitancy about or opposition to the vaccine.

    “If you don’t want to take it, you shouldn’t be forced to take it — no mandates,” he added. “But take credit because we saved tens of millions of lives.”

    The former president went on to declare that he had gotten a booster shot himself, which elicited booing and jeering from the audience.

    “Don’t. Don’t. Don’t,” Trump said of those booing. “That’s all right. It’s a very tiny group up there.”

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-tells-supporters-youre-playing-185424560.html

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @sudden death

    https://twitter.com/NoSpinNews/status/1472983120601403400

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHFM77KVEAIF3Wa?format=jpg&name=small

    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 afterall, cause he's brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    , @Mr. Hack
    @sudden death

    Looks like Ron Unz and Donald Trump both take a common sense approach to any vaxing controversy:


    Right now it looks like total American deaths for 2021 will be somewhat higher than they were in 2020, namely well over 500,000 higher than during previous years. So “excess deaths” during 2020 and 2021 will probably total 1.1 million or more. And as I mentioned in the article, The Economist has estimated total “excess deaths” worldwide at up to 20 million.

    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.

    Since the Democrats are 100% pro-vaxx, isn’t it a little odd that they’re trying to exterminate their own supporters while ensuring that the QAnon-type Republicans will be the main survivors? America’s ruling elites are concentrated in Wall Street, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and DC, and they’re almost 100% vaxxed. I guess they decided to all commit suicide. Our military is around 99+% vaxxed, so they’re also wiping out our military forces.

    Why do all leaders agree to impose the Covid boot-in-the-face? Because the vaccines will kill off a nice chunk of the over-population it will soon become obvious they cannot provide for.

    Okay, so the top leaders of America, China, Russia, Israel, Iran, and every other country in the world are secretly allied, working together in a diabolical plot (maybe organized by Bill Gates) to exterminate most of the world’s population. Hmmm…
     
    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/putin-and-xi-plot-their-swift-escape/

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @utu

  465. @sudden death
    Let's go Branda! Oh, this is just delicious, learning to stop worrying and loving the Trump now, dedicated specially to A123 out there, lol:

    Former President Donald Trump urged his supporters on Sunday to get a booster shot of one of the COVID-19 vaccines to protect themselves against the Omicron variant, telling them they were "playing right into their hands" by doubting the vaccines.

    Sitting alongside the former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly at a stadium in Dallas, Trump touted his administration's contribution toward developing the vaccines as part of Operation Warp Speed.

    "Look, we did something that was historic," he said. "We saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. We, together, all of us, not me."

    He added that without the vaccine, millions more people would have died from the virus.

    "I think this would have been the Spanish flu of 1917, where up to 100 million people died," he said. "This was going to ravage the country far beyond what it is right now."

    He then told his supporters to "take credit" for the vaccine, saying they shouldn't "let them take it away."

    "You're playing right into their hands when you're sort of, like, 'Oh, the vaccine,'" he said, referring to those of his supporters who have expressed hesitancy about or opposition to the vaccine.

    "If you don't want to take it, you shouldn't be forced to take it — no mandates," he added. "But take credit because we saved tens of millions of lives."

    The former president went on to declare that he had gotten a booster shot himself, which elicited booing and jeering from the audience.

    "Don't. Don't. Don't," Trump said of those booing. "That's all right. It's a very tiny group up there."
     

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-tells-supporters-youre-playing-185424560.html

    Replies: @sudden death, @Mr. Hack

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHFM77KVEAIF3Wa?format=jpg&name=small

    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 afterall, cause he’s brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.

    • Agree: AP
    • LOL: Yellowface Anon, A123
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    "Trumpists" will turn on Trump sooner or later because the movement has grown bigger than him.

    , @A123
    @sudden death


    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 after all, cause he’s brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.
     
    Does anyone watch O'Reilly anymore?

    The two major sides are:
        -1- Vaxx-Realists
        -2- Manda-vaxxers (a.k.a. Vaxx-Nazis)

    -0- Not a serious side -- The lunatics who believe that the vaccines are for microchip implantation and sterilization never voted for Trump in the first place. They are mostly White Nationalists who were already voting against their own future because Trump has Jewish family members. If Trump loses 1/3 of the insignificant number of crazies it will have no impact. This entire population is well below the amount of obvious vote fraud.
    ___

    -1- Vaxx-Realism is about scoring the risk of the vaccine versus the reward. For those over 65 with multiple pre-existing conditions it was an easy choice. Trump is claiming credit for saving large numbers of elderly. On net it is helpful to MAGA for those over 65, like Trump & O'Reilly, to get the vaccine.

    Perhaps it as an eccentricity of American politics, but "saving grandparents" is a very strong political position. Look at what happened to *Granny Killer* Cuomo.

     
    https://michaelsavage.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-10-at-9.00.29-AM.png
     

    He may have been officially canned for a #MeToo violation. But that was not what doomed him. Cuomo became an easily expendable liability to SJW Globalism when abused the elderly. If it had not been #MeToo,they wold have found a different excuse.
    ___

    -2- Vaxx-Nazis are about mandatory jabs and "Papers Please". These are Conservative DNC BigPharma values.

    MAGA voices, such as DeSantis, are against this type of fascism. Trump has not been as vocal as DeSantis, but he has a consistent track record of slapping BigPharma. Remember Trump's promotion of generics such as Ivermectin.

     
    https://c19ivermectin.com/isummary.png
     

    It us hard to see how you can misrepresent Trump as a Manda-vaxxer, which is the only thing that could cost him a material number of votes.
    ___

    Now let us look at the video again.

    While his comparison to the "Spanish Flu" will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.

    So Trump lost what? 3 additional White Nationalist extremists? Those 3 votes will not make a difference in the long run. Odds are he gained much more than that in swing vote elderly.

    The #NeverTrump fringe exists in an emotionally charged, irrational state of mind. They will continue to lash out at him with histrionics. The huge, high-IQ rational core of the MAGA movement is not going to be pushed off course in the march towards, "American Jobs for American Citizens".

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. If you are auditioning with MSNBC for Lügenpresse employment. This was a terrible effort at artificially manufacturing non-existent #NeverTrump conflict out of nothing. Here is a hint. If you want to work for the Rachel Maddow network, try starting with video that is at least mildly controversial.... Like this one....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  466. @sudden death
    @sudden death

    https://twitter.com/NoSpinNews/status/1472983120601403400

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHFM77KVEAIF3Wa?format=jpg&name=small

    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 afterall, cause he's brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    “Trumpists” will turn on Trump sooner or later because the movement has grown bigger than him.

  467. It has happened! The price of gas in Europe is \$2000 per 1000 m3

    From – https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1045618

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @Mike_from_Russia

    It might be because uncle Batka threatened to perform “unscheduled maintenance and reparation works” in the Yamal-Europe pipeline. This and the interviews to the Polish defector that declared that the Polish army is killing refugees are his current weapons of choice.

  468. @sudden death
    Let's go Branda! Oh, this is just delicious, learning to stop worrying and loving the Trump now, dedicated specially to A123 out there, lol:

    Former President Donald Trump urged his supporters on Sunday to get a booster shot of one of the COVID-19 vaccines to protect themselves against the Omicron variant, telling them they were "playing right into their hands" by doubting the vaccines.

    Sitting alongside the former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly at a stadium in Dallas, Trump touted his administration's contribution toward developing the vaccines as part of Operation Warp Speed.

    "Look, we did something that was historic," he said. "We saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. We, together, all of us, not me."

    He added that without the vaccine, millions more people would have died from the virus.

    "I think this would have been the Spanish flu of 1917, where up to 100 million people died," he said. "This was going to ravage the country far beyond what it is right now."

    He then told his supporters to "take credit" for the vaccine, saying they shouldn't "let them take it away."

    "You're playing right into their hands when you're sort of, like, 'Oh, the vaccine,'" he said, referring to those of his supporters who have expressed hesitancy about or opposition to the vaccine.

    "If you don't want to take it, you shouldn't be forced to take it — no mandates," he added. "But take credit because we saved tens of millions of lives."

    The former president went on to declare that he had gotten a booster shot himself, which elicited booing and jeering from the audience.

    "Don't. Don't. Don't," Trump said of those booing. "That's all right. It's a very tiny group up there."
     

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-tells-supporters-youre-playing-185424560.html

    Replies: @sudden death, @Mr. Hack

    Looks like Ron Unz and Donald Trump both take a common sense approach to any vaxing controversy:

    Right now it looks like total American deaths for 2021 will be somewhat higher than they were in 2020, namely well over 500,000 higher than during previous years. So “excess deaths” during 2020 and 2021 will probably total 1.1 million or more. And as I mentioned in the article, The Economist has estimated total “excess deaths” worldwide at up to 20 million.

    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.

    Since the Democrats are 100% pro-vaxx, isn’t it a little odd that they’re trying to exterminate their own supporters while ensuring that the QAnon-type Republicans will be the main survivors? America’s ruling elites are concentrated in Wall Street, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and DC, and they’re almost 100% vaxxed. I guess they decided to all commit suicide. Our military is around 99+% vaxxed, so they’re also wiping out our military forces.

    Why do all leaders agree to impose the Covid boot-in-the-face? Because the vaccines will kill off a nice chunk of the over-population it will soon become obvious they cannot provide for.

    Okay, so the top leaders of America, China, Russia, Israel, Iran, and every other country in the world are secretly allied, working together in a diabolical plot (maybe organized by Bill Gates) to exterminate most of the world’s population. Hmmm…

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/putin-and-xi-plot-their-swift-escape/

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    I tend to think provaxx or antivaxx as the smokescreen and the system of intensive surveillance & gatekeeping to be the real goal of the whole agenda, that's a step to centralize consumption.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @utu
    @Mr. Hack


    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.
     
    Israel Shamir? Gilad Atzmon? And Lindy Dingy was quite sick when he was in Albania iirc but his resentment of America helped him overcame that setback and he keeps singing the same tune.

    However Mike Whitney is going strong with his antivax and previously anti-lockdown disinformation. Must have gotten himself vaccinated or is in a deep lockdown. By enabling him Ron Unz apparently is admitting to the failure of his theory on Covid origin to gain traction and instead is opting for Anglin's Plan B to indemnify China:

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/lifting-the-lockdown-easy-does-it/?showcomments#comment-3863472
    So I suspect that he realized the “China bioweapon” story was just too well entrenched among (gullible) right-wing activists to be easily dislodged with more plausible information when the topic really became hot in America around then. And he decided to launch a clever flank attack instead, and focus on the “It’s Just the Flu!!!” nonsense, which had also been floating around in fringe circles.
     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC10VWDTzmU
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes you are
    You're gonna have to serve somebody (serve somebody)
    Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody
     

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  469. @Mr. Hack
    @sudden death

    Looks like Ron Unz and Donald Trump both take a common sense approach to any vaxing controversy:


    Right now it looks like total American deaths for 2021 will be somewhat higher than they were in 2020, namely well over 500,000 higher than during previous years. So “excess deaths” during 2020 and 2021 will probably total 1.1 million or more. And as I mentioned in the article, The Economist has estimated total “excess deaths” worldwide at up to 20 million.

    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.

    Since the Democrats are 100% pro-vaxx, isn’t it a little odd that they’re trying to exterminate their own supporters while ensuring that the QAnon-type Republicans will be the main survivors? America’s ruling elites are concentrated in Wall Street, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and DC, and they’re almost 100% vaxxed. I guess they decided to all commit suicide. Our military is around 99+% vaxxed, so they’re also wiping out our military forces.

    Why do all leaders agree to impose the Covid boot-in-the-face? Because the vaccines will kill off a nice chunk of the over-population it will soon become obvious they cannot provide for.

    Okay, so the top leaders of America, China, Russia, Israel, Iran, and every other country in the world are secretly allied, working together in a diabolical plot (maybe organized by Bill Gates) to exterminate most of the world’s population. Hmmm…
     
    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/putin-and-xi-plot-their-swift-escape/

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @utu

    I tend to think provaxx or antivaxx as the smokescreen and the system of intensive surveillance & gatekeeping to be the real goal of the whole agenda, that’s a step to centralize consumption.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Yellowface Anon

    What "intensive surveillance" are you suggesting? I've misplaced my original card that shows that I've taken the first two vaccines. So far, no-one anywhere has asked to see it, however, looking down the pike I think that it might be prudent to have such proof, for international travel purposes. Why do I have a feeling that it will be very time consuming to obtain a duplicate copy?

    Hint: the "intensive surveillance system" that you opine about is probably one big disorganized mess. I'm not waiting, however, to be sent to any penal system for non-vaxxers anytime soon.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

  470. @Mikel
    @A123

    I actually doubt that you really believe some of the stuff you write so debating with you is likely pointless but Trump didn't even manage to retire the small American contingent from Syria, although he did announce that he was doing it. Twice. On the contrary, he dangerously increased tensions with Russia by attacking its Syrian allies and threatening the Russians themselves. Again, twice. Biden didn't waste time tweeting. He just decided to take the American troops out of Afghanistan, no matter how loud his own political and media allies in the US protested, and did it.

    Let's just hope that if DeSantis runs for president, Trump won't ruin his chances. DeSantis has also proven to be able to do things instead of just tweeting about them.

    Replies: @A123, @iffen

    We owe our minimal involvement in Syria to former President Obama’s slapping down of the plans of slimy, warmongering, Secretary of State H. Clinton. Obamacare being the only other worthwhile accomplishment of his two terms that come to mind.

    I give immense credit to Biden for ending the disaster in Afghanistan. His infrastructure bill will be the only other worthwhile accomplishment of his one term.

  471. @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    I tend to think provaxx or antivaxx as the smokescreen and the system of intensive surveillance & gatekeeping to be the real goal of the whole agenda, that's a step to centralize consumption.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    What “intensive surveillance” are you suggesting? I’ve misplaced my original card that shows that I’ve taken the first two vaccines. So far, no-one anywhere has asked to see it, however, looking down the pike I think that it might be prudent to have such proof, for international travel purposes. Why do I have a feeling that it will be very time consuming to obtain a duplicate copy?

    Hint: the “intensive surveillance system” that you opine about is probably one big disorganized mess. I’m not waiting, however, to be sent to any penal system for non-vaxxers anytime soon.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack


    What “intensive surveillance” are you suggesting
     
    In the US I believe it is still nascent. The second prong to the Covid interventions is the Federal response to the "Jan. 6th insurrection". There is work going on behind the scenes on the Federal level which appears to be heading in the direction of a domestically targeted "Patriot Act". Once that gets rolled out it should be much easier to prosecute thought criminals of all kinds.

    The Covid restrictions were largely a domino effect of witless middle managers copying whatever smelled "safest". However, they have effectively accustomed people to a huge increase in scope of intrusive government mandate. They have gone a long way to solidify the idea in a great many minds to mindlessly follow the dictates of government if "safety" is the rationale.

    Covid has also seen a great push to extend the reach of technology in our lives, especially as a replacement for authentic human interaction.

    The combination of these factors into a more isolated and atomized while also more docile and fearful citizenry, coupled to a extended Federal arm committed to rooting out dissenters and thought criminals seems quite troubling.

    That is how it looks to me in the ol' US of A, though perhaps Yellowface Anon had other factors in mind from his own vantage point.
    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    Good luck with you getting the replacement.

    , @A123
    @Mr. Hack


    What “intensive surveillance” are you suggesting? I’ve misplaced my original card that shows that I’ve taken the first two vaccines.
     
    The Deep State is already working on an authoritarian "Papers Please" solution that you cannot misplace (1)

    You might think the concept of rice-sized *microchip implants, for COVID vaccination passports*, would be met with a resounding nope. Unfortunately, it seems there are many who are willing to embrace the idea. The Daily Mail has an article about the process, which includes the following:

    (Daily Mail) – […] Epicenter, a Stockholm-based startup, unveiled a new way of carrying around a COVID vaccine passport – in a microchip implanted under your skin. The implant can be read by any device using the near-field communication (NFC) protocol – technology used for contactless payments and keyless entry systems.

    In a video shared by Epicenter, Hannes Sjöblad, chief distribution officer, has the chip in his arm and simply waves a smartphone over it to pull up his vaccination status
     


     
    As a related topic, here is another successful WUHAN-19 treatment protocol that the Fake Stream Media and BigPharma want to cover up. (2)

    Antihistamines have their own toolkit against viruses and cytokine storms:

    Regarding antihistamines, in recent years molecules with antihistamine activity have been identified as having powerful antiviral properties, inhibiting the entry of certain viruses into the target cell, such as the Ebola virus (filovirus) [28], or the hepatitis C virus (flavivirus) [[29], [30], [31]], or by other mechanisms [32]. Several H1 receptor antagonists have demonstrated inhibitory properties on the production and expression of interleukins, chemokines, and other cytokines [33]. Specifically, cetirizine decreases interleukin production [34,35].
     
    There’s a whole lot more in the paper, but right now I’m just thinking of all the times a doctor told me that antibiotics won’t help with a viral infection.

    We’ve been living in an age of antivirals for years, but we didn’t know it. That probably wasn’t an accident
     

     
    https://joannenova.com.au/wp-content/gr1_lrg.jpg
     

    I only know what us in the article, so do not ask me what 'Respiratory Physiotherapy' means.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/12/20/next-up-covid-passport-implants/

    (2) https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/81109/

  472. @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I can say that it’s probable that many of these would be driven into a frothing rage just by the lack of a 21 page systematic definition.
     
    LOL. I do get the idea that many are autists - not that there is anything wrong with that.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I should be clear that I still have a large amount of affinity and respect for a lot of traditionalist Catholics. They are certainly going in broadly the right direction. However, the stereotype of the RC Church and traditionalists in particular, being addicted to hairsplitting rules and definitions does have grounding in reality.

    That seems like a rather large obstacle when dealing with matters like the Divine that are definitionally beyond the scope of limited human comprehension. This is one reason that I think that Eastern theology has some strengths the West lacks; they rely much more heavily on the symbolic as a representation of things undefinable. They are often more comfortable with a certain degree of uncertainty and mystery surrounding the Divine.

  473. @Mike_from_Russia
    It has happened! The price of gas in Europe is $2000 per 1000 m3
    https://glav.su/files/messages/fdb2ae40891140b446af24f403e7d939.png

    From - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1045618

    Replies: @Aedib

    It might be because uncle Batka threatened to perform “unscheduled maintenance and reparation works” in the Yamal-Europe pipeline. This and the interviews to the Polish defector that declared that the Polish army is killing refugees are his current weapons of choice.

  474. @Mr. Hack
    @Yellowface Anon

    What "intensive surveillance" are you suggesting? I've misplaced my original card that shows that I've taken the first two vaccines. So far, no-one anywhere has asked to see it, however, looking down the pike I think that it might be prudent to have such proof, for international travel purposes. Why do I have a feeling that it will be very time consuming to obtain a duplicate copy?

    Hint: the "intensive surveillance system" that you opine about is probably one big disorganized mess. I'm not waiting, however, to be sent to any penal system for non-vaxxers anytime soon.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    What “intensive surveillance” are you suggesting

    In the US I believe it is still nascent. The second prong to the Covid interventions is the Federal response to the “Jan. 6th insurrection”. There is work going on behind the scenes on the Federal level which appears to be heading in the direction of a domestically targeted “Patriot Act”. Once that gets rolled out it should be much easier to prosecute thought criminals of all kinds.

    The Covid restrictions were largely a domino effect of witless middle managers copying whatever smelled “safest”. However, they have effectively accustomed people to a huge increase in scope of intrusive government mandate. They have gone a long way to solidify the idea in a great many minds to mindlessly follow the dictates of government if “safety” is the rationale.

    Covid has also seen a great push to extend the reach of technology in our lives, especially as a replacement for authentic human interaction.

    The combination of these factors into a more isolated and atomized while also more docile and fearful citizenry, coupled to a extended Federal arm committed to rooting out dissenters and thought criminals seems quite troubling.

    That is how it looks to me in the ol’ US of A, though perhaps Yellowface Anon had other factors in mind from his own vantage point.

  475. @sudden death
    @sudden death

    https://twitter.com/NoSpinNews/status/1472983120601403400

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHFM77KVEAIF3Wa?format=jpg&name=small

    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 afterall, cause he's brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 after all, cause he’s brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.

    Does anyone watch O’Reilly anymore?

    The two major sides are:
        -1- Vaxx-Realists
        -2- Manda-vaxxers (a.k.a. Vaxx-Nazis)

    -0- Not a serious side — The lunatics who believe that the vaccines are for microchip implantation and sterilization never voted for Trump in the first place. They are mostly White Nationalists who were already voting against their own future because Trump has Jewish family members. If Trump loses 1/3 of the insignificant number of crazies it will have no impact. This entire population is well below the amount of obvious vote fraud.
    ___

    -1- Vaxx-Realism is about scoring the risk of the vaccine versus the reward. For those over 65 with multiple pre-existing conditions it was an easy choice. Trump is claiming credit for saving large numbers of elderly. On net it is helpful to MAGA for those over 65, like Trump & O’Reilly, to get the vaccine.

    Perhaps it as an eccentricity of American politics, but “saving grandparents” is a very strong political position. Look at what happened to *Granny Killer* Cuomo.

      

    He may have been officially canned for a #MeToo violation. But that was not what doomed him. Cuomo became an easily expendable liability to SJW Globalism when abused the elderly. If it had not been #MeToo,they wold have found a different excuse.
    ___

    -2- Vaxx-Nazis are about mandatory jabs and “Papers Please”. These are Conservative DNC BigPharma values.

    MAGA voices, such as DeSantis, are against this type of fascism. Trump has not been as vocal as DeSantis, but he has a consistent track record of slapping BigPharma. Remember Trump’s promotion of generics such as Ivermectin.

      

    It us hard to see how you can misrepresent Trump as a Manda-vaxxer, which is the only thing that could cost him a material number of votes.
    ___

    Now let us look at the video again.

    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.

    So Trump lost what? 3 additional White Nationalist extremists? Those 3 votes will not make a difference in the long run. Odds are he gained much more than that in swing vote elderly.

    The #NeverTrump fringe exists in an emotionally charged, irrational state of mind. They will continue to lash out at him with histrionics. The huge, high-IQ rational core of the MAGA movement is not going to be pushed off course in the march towards, “American Jobs for American Citizens”.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. If you are auditioning with MSNBC for Lügenpresse employment. This was a terrible effort at artificially manufacturing non-existent #NeverTrump conflict out of nothing. Here is a hint. If you want to work for the Rachel Maddow network, try starting with video that is at least mildly controversial…. Like this one….

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.
     
    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years.

    Replies: @A123, @Yellowface Anon, @Emil Nikola Richard

  476. America sells most of its LNG to Asia. So far in 2021, about 13% went to South Korea, 13% to China, and 10% to Japan, Reuters said, citing US energy data. The same three countries were the top destinations for LNG in 2020 as well.

    https://www.rt.com/business/543875-us-poised-to-become-biggest-lng-exporter/

    Americans prefer to send their LNG to Asia too. While Eurocrats blame Russia because of sending LNG to the Asian market rather to the European one, I think they will not blame USA for having the same behavior.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Aedib

    U.S. LNG loading almost exclusively (∆) an Atlantic & Gulf Coast operation: (1)

    Apparently UR does not embed the SVG graphics format, so you need to click this link:
     
    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2021.07.27/main.svg
     


    U.S. LNG exports increased in the first half of this year as international natural gas and LNG spot prices increased in Asia and Europe due to cold weather. Rising global LNG demand once COVID-19 restrictions began to ease, as well as continuous unplanned outages at LNG export facilities in several countries (including Australia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Algeria, Norway, and Trinidad and Tobago), also contributed to increased U.S. LNG exports.

    In Asia, colder-than-normal winter temperatures led to increased demand for spot LNG imports. Natural gas demand in the spring continued to rise amid low post-winter inventories, which contributed to unseasonably high natural gas prices. The high prices prompted a higher demand for more flexible LNG supplies, particularly from the United States.
     

    I do not know the size of the Australia outage.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48876

    (∆) There is a facility in Alaska not shown. It us quite small and may be 100% committed to U.S. owned Pacific islands, and us thus not 'export'.

  477. @A123
    @sudden death


    Guess Trump is not running in 2024 after all, cause he’s brushing away at least about third of his nurtured lunatic base with this.
     
    Does anyone watch O'Reilly anymore?

    The two major sides are:
        -1- Vaxx-Realists
        -2- Manda-vaxxers (a.k.a. Vaxx-Nazis)

    -0- Not a serious side -- The lunatics who believe that the vaccines are for microchip implantation and sterilization never voted for Trump in the first place. They are mostly White Nationalists who were already voting against their own future because Trump has Jewish family members. If Trump loses 1/3 of the insignificant number of crazies it will have no impact. This entire population is well below the amount of obvious vote fraud.
    ___

    -1- Vaxx-Realism is about scoring the risk of the vaccine versus the reward. For those over 65 with multiple pre-existing conditions it was an easy choice. Trump is claiming credit for saving large numbers of elderly. On net it is helpful to MAGA for those over 65, like Trump & O'Reilly, to get the vaccine.

    Perhaps it as an eccentricity of American politics, but "saving grandparents" is a very strong political position. Look at what happened to *Granny Killer* Cuomo.

     
    https://michaelsavage.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Screen-Shot-2020-05-10-at-9.00.29-AM.png
     

    He may have been officially canned for a #MeToo violation. But that was not what doomed him. Cuomo became an easily expendable liability to SJW Globalism when abused the elderly. If it had not been #MeToo,they wold have found a different excuse.
    ___

    -2- Vaxx-Nazis are about mandatory jabs and "Papers Please". These are Conservative DNC BigPharma values.

    MAGA voices, such as DeSantis, are against this type of fascism. Trump has not been as vocal as DeSantis, but he has a consistent track record of slapping BigPharma. Remember Trump's promotion of generics such as Ivermectin.

     
    https://c19ivermectin.com/isummary.png
     

    It us hard to see how you can misrepresent Trump as a Manda-vaxxer, which is the only thing that could cost him a material number of votes.
    ___

    Now let us look at the video again.

    While his comparison to the "Spanish Flu" will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.

    So Trump lost what? 3 additional White Nationalist extremists? Those 3 votes will not make a difference in the long run. Odds are he gained much more than that in swing vote elderly.

    The #NeverTrump fringe exists in an emotionally charged, irrational state of mind. They will continue to lash out at him with histrionics. The huge, high-IQ rational core of the MAGA movement is not going to be pushed off course in the march towards, "American Jobs for American Citizens".

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. If you are auditioning with MSNBC for Lügenpresse employment. This was a terrible effort at artificially manufacturing non-existent #NeverTrump conflict out of nothing. Here is a hint. If you want to work for the Rachel Maddow network, try starting with video that is at least mildly controversial.... Like this one....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.

    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack



    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny,
     
    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years
     
    WUHAN-19 certainly infected more people. However the typical case is mild, often asymptomatic. There are effectively zero fatalities in children. The few documented cases I have heard about had p multiple serious preexisting pediatric conditions. Therefore, the CCP lab created virus needed a tailored response to address the high risk population.

    Spanish Flu hit across the age spectrum and was thus a significantly different phenomenon.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    This is true but there existed a lot of middle ground between what policies have been taken at the WHO level and letting COVID rip.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    The Spanish flu killed young healthy people. Eighteen year-olds. There were real life real time Monty Python bring out your dead wagons.

    This is nothing like that.

    Replies: @sudden death

  478. @Aedib

    America sells most of its LNG to Asia. So far in 2021, about 13% went to South Korea, 13% to China, and 10% to Japan, Reuters said, citing US energy data. The same three countries were the top destinations for LNG in 2020 as well.
     
    https://www.rt.com/business/543875-us-poised-to-become-biggest-lng-exporter/

    Americans prefer to send their LNG to Asia too. While Eurocrats blame Russia because of sending LNG to the Asian market rather to the European one, I think they will not blame USA for having the same behavior.

    Replies: @A123

    U.S. LNG loading almost exclusively (∆) an Atlantic & Gulf Coast operation: (1)

    Apparently UR does not embed the SVG graphics format, so you need to click this link:
      

    U.S. LNG exports increased in the first half of this year as international natural gas and LNG spot prices increased in Asia and Europe due to cold weather. Rising global LNG demand once COVID-19 restrictions began to ease, as well as continuous unplanned outages at LNG export facilities in several countries (including Australia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Algeria, Norway, and Trinidad and Tobago), also contributed to increased U.S. LNG exports.

    In Asia, colder-than-normal winter temperatures led to increased demand for spot LNG imports. Natural gas demand in the spring continued to rise amid low post-winter inventories, which contributed to unseasonably high natural gas prices. The high prices prompted a higher demand for more flexible LNG supplies, particularly from the United States.

    I do not know the size of the Australia outage.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48876

    (∆) There is a facility in Alaska not shown. It us quite small and may be 100% committed to U.S. owned Pacific islands, and us thus not ‘export’.

  479. @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.
     
    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years.

    Replies: @A123, @Yellowface Anon, @Emil Nikola Richard

    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny,

    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years

    WUHAN-19 certainly infected more people. However the typical case is mild, often asymptomatic. There are effectively zero fatalities in children. The few documented cases I have heard about had p multiple serious preexisting pediatric conditions. Therefore, the CCP lab created virus needed a tailored response to address the high risk population.

    Spanish Flu hit across the age spectrum and was thus a significantly different phenomenon.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @A123

    Some observations:
    - If American LNG loading happens in Atlantic & Gulf Coast, their natural market should be the European one.
    - But they prefer to increase supply to Asia and AFTER this, to Europe.
    - Russia also increased the supply to Asia and AFTER they INCREASED the average supply to Europe (in a smaller percentage).
    - So, the market drives LNG to Asia because the faster growth (which leads to higher spot prices).
    - Eurocrats like to blame Russia, demanding Grazprom to down the supply to Asia in order to up the supply to Europe. This absurd demand goes against market forces. Gas is rapidly commoditizing.
    - The main reason of the energetic crisis in Europe is not Gazprom “going east”. It is the absurd “green” policy which tried to replace nuclear stations with wind generators.
    - Eurocrats blame Russia because this childish behavior is easier than recognizing that they are the main culprits of the current energy crisis.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

  480. @Mr. Hack
    @Yellowface Anon

    What "intensive surveillance" are you suggesting? I've misplaced my original card that shows that I've taken the first two vaccines. So far, no-one anywhere has asked to see it, however, looking down the pike I think that it might be prudent to have such proof, for international travel purposes. Why do I have a feeling that it will be very time consuming to obtain a duplicate copy?

    Hint: the "intensive surveillance system" that you opine about is probably one big disorganized mess. I'm not waiting, however, to be sent to any penal system for non-vaxxers anytime soon.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    Good luck with you getting the replacement.

  481. @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.
     
    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years.

    Replies: @A123, @Yellowface Anon, @Emil Nikola Richard

    This is true but there existed a lot of middle ground between what policies have been taken at the WHO level and letting COVID rip.

  482. @A123
    @Mr. Hack



    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny,
     
    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years
     
    WUHAN-19 certainly infected more people. However the typical case is mild, often asymptomatic. There are effectively zero fatalities in children. The few documented cases I have heard about had p multiple serious preexisting pediatric conditions. Therefore, the CCP lab created virus needed a tailored response to address the high risk population.

    Spanish Flu hit across the age spectrum and was thus a significantly different phenomenon.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib

    Some observations:
    – If American LNG loading happens in Atlantic & Gulf Coast, their natural market should be the European one.
    – But they prefer to increase supply to Asia and AFTER this, to Europe.
    – Russia also increased the supply to Asia and AFTER they INCREASED the average supply to Europe (in a smaller percentage).
    – So, the market drives LNG to Asia because the faster growth (which leads to higher spot prices).
    – Eurocrats like to blame Russia, demanding Grazprom to down the supply to Asia in order to up the supply to Europe. This absurd demand goes against market forces. Gas is rapidly commoditizing.
    – The main reason of the energetic crisis in Europe is not Gazprom “going east”. It is the absurd “green” policy which tried to replace nuclear stations with wind generators.
    – Eurocrats blame Russia because this childish behavior is easier than recognizing that they are the main culprits of the current energy crisis.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Aedib

    Blame can be assigned to both sides and there are other factors

    Brussels rules encouraging a larger % of supply to go through the spot market has made things unstable. After the Enron fiasco in the U.S., there was plenty of warning that excessive spot transactions create opportunities for bad behaviour. However, the EU did it anyway. Countries, like Hungary, that side stepped EU 'guidance' are doing much better than average.

    Putin cynically adopted the strategy "unreliable via strict contract compliance", thus functionally abandoning the spot market. This was an obvious and brazen attempt to force NS2 approval through the EU bureaucracy. Understandable, but Putin's manipulation failed. While technically legal, being a deliberately unreliable partner poisoned swing sentiment against Russia. The inclusion of the Green party in German coalition governance has more or less doomed NS2.

    For other factors:
        -- Pipelines are cheaper than ships
        -- For ships / Distance = Transit Time = Delivered Price
    The closest port usually wins. Until near Europe supply becomes 100% committed, U.S. LNG via ship is the higher cost option. There are some long term, fixed price contracts that keep supplies moving. However, the U.S. is both cost and timing disadvantaged as a spot market LNG supplier to Europe.

    Eurocrats can whinge about the U.S., but European corporations as private purchasers will not spend more to obtain a commodity. The only way for the EU to increase U.S. volume to Europe is offering long term contracts, which goes against their "spot market" preference.
    ___

    There are some notable upsides to the current pain:
        -- Baltic Pipe's "European Gas for Europeans" will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
        -- The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept. Both Northern and Southern Europe respectively will be 100% free from LNG transiting Germany.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    , @Beckow
    @Aedib


    ...Gas is rapidly commoditizing.
     
    Gas is cheap and clean, and green policies have external costs: wind-mills are ugly and kill birds, they also create huge amount of garbage, as do solar panels. Plus their maintenance is very costly. Nuclear is better, but it takes a long time to build and is expensive to operate.

    Domestic gas supplies in Europe are running out. LNG has high upfront fixed cost and is unreliable. Any rational analysis shows that the direct pipeline supply of gas from Russia is the best available alternative. The fact that EU is jumping through hoops to destroy that option tells us all we need to know about their priorities and who sets them.

    Russia can export its gas to China, Korea, Turkey... The main consequence will be a dramatic increase in the cost of energy in Europe and shutting down energy-dependent industry (smelting, fertilizers). Another consequence would be a drop in EU exports to Russia - if you don't buy, you also don't sell. China-Korea will gladly grab those markets. SWIFT is a convenience - there are dozens of slower alternatives.

    The measly $5 billion Gazprom investment in NS2 is not significant and it doesn't drive Russia's decisions. Without NS2, German industry's costs go up. $5 billon is nothing in the big picture and with higher 2021 gas prices Gazprom has already made more in the last 6 months than the cost of NS2. They can easily let it go, it is purely symbolic.

    Can Berlin and Brussels be so stupid that they don't see this reality? I doubt it, when rational, smart actors act stupid, it is for a reason. In a hierarchy of strategic goals EU energy was deemed to be not that important. We will see if it turns out that way.

    (Or possibly they are simply fools, incompetent careerists with no business sense. A goat attacks from the front, a horse from the back, but fools attack in all directions. That explains the current uncertainty, the fools are unleashed...)

    Replies: @A123

  483. @Aedib
    @A123

    Some observations:
    - If American LNG loading happens in Atlantic & Gulf Coast, their natural market should be the European one.
    - But they prefer to increase supply to Asia and AFTER this, to Europe.
    - Russia also increased the supply to Asia and AFTER they INCREASED the average supply to Europe (in a smaller percentage).
    - So, the market drives LNG to Asia because the faster growth (which leads to higher spot prices).
    - Eurocrats like to blame Russia, demanding Grazprom to down the supply to Asia in order to up the supply to Europe. This absurd demand goes against market forces. Gas is rapidly commoditizing.
    - The main reason of the energetic crisis in Europe is not Gazprom “going east”. It is the absurd “green” policy which tried to replace nuclear stations with wind generators.
    - Eurocrats blame Russia because this childish behavior is easier than recognizing that they are the main culprits of the current energy crisis.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    Blame can be assigned to both sides and there are other factors

    Brussels rules encouraging a larger % of supply to go through the spot market has made things unstable. After the Enron fiasco in the U.S., there was plenty of warning that excessive spot transactions create opportunities for bad behaviour. However, the EU did it anyway. Countries, like Hungary, that side stepped EU ‘guidance’ are doing much better than average.

    Putin cynically adopted the strategy “unreliable via strict contract compliance”, thus functionally abandoning the spot market. This was an obvious and brazen attempt to force NS2 approval through the EU bureaucracy. Understandable, but Putin’s manipulation failed. While technically legal, being a deliberately unreliable partner poisoned swing sentiment against Russia. The inclusion of the Green party in German coalition governance has more or less doomed NS2.

    For other factors:
        — Pipelines are cheaper than ships
        — For ships / Distance = Transit Time = Delivered Price
    The closest port usually wins. Until near Europe supply becomes 100% committed, U.S. LNG via ship is the higher cost option. There are some long term, fixed price contracts that keep supplies moving. However, the U.S. is both cost and timing disadvantaged as a spot market LNG supplier to Europe.

    Eurocrats can whinge about the U.S., but European corporations as private purchasers will not spend more to obtain a commodity. The only way for the EU to increase U.S. volume to Europe is offering long term contracts, which goes against their “spot market” preference.
    ___

    There are some notable upsides to the current pain:
        — Baltic Pipe’s “European Gas for Europeans” will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
        — The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept. Both Northern and Southern Europe respectively will be 100% free from LNG transiting Germany.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @A123


    Brussels rules encouraging a larger % of supply to go through the spot market has made things unstable. After the Enron fiasco in the U.S., there was plenty of warning that excessive spot transactions create opportunities for bad behaviour. However, the EU did it anyway. Countries, like Hungary, that side stepped EU ‘guidance’ are doing much better than average.
     
    I mostly agree here.

    Putin cynically adopted the strategy “unreliable via strict contract compliance”, thus functionally abandoning the spot market. This was an obvious and brazen attempt to force NS2 approval through the EU bureaucracy. Understandable, but Putin’s manipulation failed. While technically legal, being a deliberately unreliable partner poisoned swing sentiment against Russia. The inclusion of the Green party in German coalition governance has more or less doomed NS2.
     
    Sentiments against Russia are fuelled mostly by Western propaganda. And the idea that “Russia is unreliable because it is strictly fulfilling contracts” is so doublespeak that looks like made by Orwell’s Minitrue. This is how Western propaganda looks like now.

    By the way, thing are going completely crazy now.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Faces-Full-Blown-Energy-Crisis-As-Gas-Prices-Smash-All-Records.html

    The root of this is the closure of nuclear stations.

    , @Beckow
    @A123


    ...Baltic Pipe’s “European Gas for Europeans” will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
    — The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept.
     
    Have you looked at the small capacity that both would have? The Baltic is basically a repackaging of already existing Norway gas, no additional supply.

    The issue is not "EU approval", or what people like - the issue is that the gas for any pipeline has to come from somewhere. There are no unexplored magical sources. The gas fields that have not been used have high extraction costs (e.g. under the sea).

    I agree that Russia is "working by the book" - not breaking contracts, but not helping. It pisses off EU customers - but they are already (at least officially) in an extremely pissed off and hostile mood against anything Russian. They only buy because they have no alternative. Russia has now made it that way for both sides. It changes nothing - this is not about emotions, it is about resources, supplies and prices.

    Replies: @A123, @Aedib

  484. @Mr. Hack
    @Yellowface Anon

    What "intensive surveillance" are you suggesting? I've misplaced my original card that shows that I've taken the first two vaccines. So far, no-one anywhere has asked to see it, however, looking down the pike I think that it might be prudent to have such proof, for international travel purposes. Why do I have a feeling that it will be very time consuming to obtain a duplicate copy?

    Hint: the "intensive surveillance system" that you opine about is probably one big disorganized mess. I'm not waiting, however, to be sent to any penal system for non-vaxxers anytime soon.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @A123

    What “intensive surveillance” are you suggesting? I’ve misplaced my original card that shows that I’ve taken the first two vaccines.

    The Deep State is already working on an authoritarian “Papers Please” solution that you cannot misplace (1)

    You might think the concept of rice-sized *microchip implants, for COVID vaccination passports*, would be met with a resounding nope. Unfortunately, it seems there are many who are willing to embrace the idea. The Daily Mail has an article about the process, which includes the following:

    (Daily Mail) – […] Epicenter, a Stockholm-based startup, unveiled a new way of carrying around a COVID vaccine passport – in a microchip implanted under your skin. The implant can be read by any device using the near-field communication (NFC) protocol – technology used for contactless payments and keyless entry systems.

    In a video shared by Epicenter, Hannes Sjöblad, chief distribution officer, has the chip in his arm and simply waves a smartphone over it to pull up his vaccination status

    As a related topic, here is another successful WUHAN-19 treatment protocol that the Fake Stream Media and BigPharma want to cover up. (2)

    Antihistamines have their own toolkit against viruses and cytokine storms:

    Regarding antihistamines, in recent years molecules with antihistamine activity have been identified as having powerful antiviral properties, inhibiting the entry of certain viruses into the target cell, such as the Ebola virus (filovirus) [28], or the hepatitis C virus (flavivirus) [[29], [30], [31]], or by other mechanisms [32]. Several H1 receptor antagonists have demonstrated inhibitory properties on the production and expression of interleukins, chemokines, and other cytokines [33]. Specifically, cetirizine decreases interleukin production [34,35].

    There’s a whole lot more in the paper, but right now I’m just thinking of all the times a doctor told me that antibiotics won’t help with a viral infection.

    We’ve been living in an age of antivirals for years, but we didn’t know it. That probably wasn’t an accident

      

    I only know what us in the article, so do not ask me what ‘Respiratory Physiotherapy’ means.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/12/20/next-up-covid-passport-implants/

    (2) https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/81109/

  485. @A123
    @Aedib

    Blame can be assigned to both sides and there are other factors

    Brussels rules encouraging a larger % of supply to go through the spot market has made things unstable. After the Enron fiasco in the U.S., there was plenty of warning that excessive spot transactions create opportunities for bad behaviour. However, the EU did it anyway. Countries, like Hungary, that side stepped EU 'guidance' are doing much better than average.

    Putin cynically adopted the strategy "unreliable via strict contract compliance", thus functionally abandoning the spot market. This was an obvious and brazen attempt to force NS2 approval through the EU bureaucracy. Understandable, but Putin's manipulation failed. While technically legal, being a deliberately unreliable partner poisoned swing sentiment against Russia. The inclusion of the Green party in German coalition governance has more or less doomed NS2.

    For other factors:
        -- Pipelines are cheaper than ships
        -- For ships / Distance = Transit Time = Delivered Price
    The closest port usually wins. Until near Europe supply becomes 100% committed, U.S. LNG via ship is the higher cost option. There are some long term, fixed price contracts that keep supplies moving. However, the U.S. is both cost and timing disadvantaged as a spot market LNG supplier to Europe.

    Eurocrats can whinge about the U.S., but European corporations as private purchasers will not spend more to obtain a commodity. The only way for the EU to increase U.S. volume to Europe is offering long term contracts, which goes against their "spot market" preference.
    ___

    There are some notable upsides to the current pain:
        -- Baltic Pipe's "European Gas for Europeans" will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
        -- The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept. Both Northern and Southern Europe respectively will be 100% free from LNG transiting Germany.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    Brussels rules encouraging a larger % of supply to go through the spot market has made things unstable. After the Enron fiasco in the U.S., there was plenty of warning that excessive spot transactions create opportunities for bad behaviour. However, the EU did it anyway. Countries, like Hungary, that side stepped EU ‘guidance’ are doing much better than average.

    I mostly agree here.

    Putin cynically adopted the strategy “unreliable via strict contract compliance”, thus functionally abandoning the spot market. This was an obvious and brazen attempt to force NS2 approval through the EU bureaucracy. Understandable, but Putin’s manipulation failed. While technically legal, being a deliberately unreliable partner poisoned swing sentiment against Russia. The inclusion of the Green party in German coalition governance has more or less doomed NS2.

    Sentiments against Russia are fuelled mostly by Western propaganda. And the idea that “Russia is unreliable because it is strictly fulfilling contracts” is so doublespeak that looks like made by Orwell’s Minitrue. This is how Western propaganda looks like now.

    By the way, thing are going completely crazy now.

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Faces-Full-Blown-Energy-Crisis-As-Gas-Prices-Smash-All-Records.html

    The root of this is the closure of nuclear stations.

  486. @Aedib
    @A123

    Some observations:
    - If American LNG loading happens in Atlantic & Gulf Coast, their natural market should be the European one.
    - But they prefer to increase supply to Asia and AFTER this, to Europe.
    - Russia also increased the supply to Asia and AFTER they INCREASED the average supply to Europe (in a smaller percentage).
    - So, the market drives LNG to Asia because the faster growth (which leads to higher spot prices).
    - Eurocrats like to blame Russia, demanding Grazprom to down the supply to Asia in order to up the supply to Europe. This absurd demand goes against market forces. Gas is rapidly commoditizing.
    - The main reason of the energetic crisis in Europe is not Gazprom “going east”. It is the absurd “green” policy which tried to replace nuclear stations with wind generators.
    - Eurocrats blame Russia because this childish behavior is easier than recognizing that they are the main culprits of the current energy crisis.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    …Gas is rapidly commoditizing.

    Gas is cheap and clean, and green policies have external costs: wind-mills are ugly and kill birds, they also create huge amount of garbage, as do solar panels. Plus their maintenance is very costly. Nuclear is better, but it takes a long time to build and is expensive to operate.

    Domestic gas supplies in Europe are running out. LNG has high upfront fixed cost and is unreliable. Any rational analysis shows that the direct pipeline supply of gas from Russia is the best available alternative. The fact that EU is jumping through hoops to destroy that option tells us all we need to know about their priorities and who sets them.

    Russia can export its gas to China, Korea, Turkey… The main consequence will be a dramatic increase in the cost of energy in Europe and shutting down energy-dependent industry (smelting, fertilizers). Another consequence would be a drop in EU exports to Russia – if you don’t buy, you also don’t sell. China-Korea will gladly grab those markets. SWIFT is a convenience – there are dozens of slower alternatives.

    The measly \$5 billion Gazprom investment in NS2 is not significant and it doesn’t drive Russia’s decisions. Without NS2, German industry’s costs go up. \$5 billon is nothing in the big picture and with higher 2021 gas prices Gazprom has already made more in the last 6 months than the cost of NS2. They can easily let it go, it is purely symbolic.

    Can Berlin and Brussels be so stupid that they don’t see this reality? I doubt it, when rational, smart actors act stupid, it is for a reason. In a hierarchy of strategic goals EU energy was deemed to be not that important. We will see if it turns out that way.

    (Or possibly they are simply fools, incompetent careerists with no business sense. A goat attacks from the front, a horse from the back, but fools attack in all directions. That explains the current uncertainty, the fools are unleashed…)

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    Can Berlin and Brussels be so stupid that they don’t see this reality? I doubt it, when rational, smart actors act stupid, it is for a reason. In a hierarchy of strategic goals EU energy was deemed to be not that important. We will see if it turns out that way.

    (Or possibly they are simply fools, incompetent careerists with no business sense. A goat attacks from the front, a horse from the back, but fools attack in all directions. That explains the current uncertainty, the fools are unleashed…)
     
    From the outside, dangerously mentally impaired is the obvious description for Berlin and Brussels.

    European WEF doctrine is set by Europe for Europe in Davos. It is unrelated to science or practicality. The purposes are; -A- Political SJW dogma, and; -B- Enriching Globalists who put money into solar and wind boondoggles.

    The European Elites at the top may not be stupid. Are German voters stupid or brainwashed? They supported Merkel's anti-worker policies. Now they have the Scholz "Traffic Light" coalition which is actually more unhinged than Merkel's MegaCorporation serving regime. The German people are behaving self destructively.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
  487. @A123
    @Aedib

    Blame can be assigned to both sides and there are other factors

    Brussels rules encouraging a larger % of supply to go through the spot market has made things unstable. After the Enron fiasco in the U.S., there was plenty of warning that excessive spot transactions create opportunities for bad behaviour. However, the EU did it anyway. Countries, like Hungary, that side stepped EU 'guidance' are doing much better than average.

    Putin cynically adopted the strategy "unreliable via strict contract compliance", thus functionally abandoning the spot market. This was an obvious and brazen attempt to force NS2 approval through the EU bureaucracy. Understandable, but Putin's manipulation failed. While technically legal, being a deliberately unreliable partner poisoned swing sentiment against Russia. The inclusion of the Green party in German coalition governance has more or less doomed NS2.

    For other factors:
        -- Pipelines are cheaper than ships
        -- For ships / Distance = Transit Time = Delivered Price
    The closest port usually wins. Until near Europe supply becomes 100% committed, U.S. LNG via ship is the higher cost option. There are some long term, fixed price contracts that keep supplies moving. However, the U.S. is both cost and timing disadvantaged as a spot market LNG supplier to Europe.

    Eurocrats can whinge about the U.S., but European corporations as private purchasers will not spend more to obtain a commodity. The only way for the EU to increase U.S. volume to Europe is offering long term contracts, which goes against their "spot market" preference.
    ___

    There are some notable upsides to the current pain:
        -- Baltic Pipe's "European Gas for Europeans" will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
        -- The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept. Both Northern and Southern Europe respectively will be 100% free from LNG transiting Germany.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Aedib, @Beckow

    …Baltic Pipe’s “European Gas for Europeans” will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
    — The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept.

    Have you looked at the small capacity that both would have? The Baltic is basically a repackaging of already existing Norway gas, no additional supply.

    The issue is not “EU approval“, or what people like – the issue is that the gas for any pipeline has to come from somewhere. There are no unexplored magical sources. The gas fields that have not been used have high extraction costs (e.g. under the sea).

    I agree that Russia is “working by the book” – not breaking contracts, but not helping. It pisses off EU customers – but they are already (at least officially) in an extremely pissed off and hostile mood against anything Russian. They only buy because they have no alternative. Russia has now made it that way for both sides. It changes nothing – this is not about emotions, it is about resources, supplies and prices.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    Have you looked at the small capacity that both would have? The Baltic is basically a repackaging of already existing Norway gas, no additional supply.
     
    You are half right. Baltic Pipe 1 is additional supply (not repackaging), however it is indeed relatively small 20-30% of the size of NS2. It repurposed some existing nearly idle pipes, and captured other underutilized capacity to minimize cost and time to completion. These choices constrained the capacity. Baltic1 meets immediate needs and serves as "Proof of Concept" for bypassing authoritarian Germany and its Green coalition.

    Once Baltic1 is approved and running, this will open the door to a much larger Baltic2 project. Norway's massive TROLL field can fill pipes of any size for decades and there is a comparable magnitude find a bit further north, 35/2-1 (PEON), for additional decades of “European Gas for Europeans”.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

     
    https://www.norskpetroleum.no/wp-content/uploads/05-Nordsj%C3%B8N-en-07042020-1000x0-c-default.png
     
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-169/#comment-5004952
    , @Aedib
    @Beckow

    I mostly agree with you. It is true that Russia is “working by the book”, not breaking contracts, but not helping. The funny thing is that Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode. Gazprom policy is crystal clear: maximum profit.
    The root of the disaster is trying to replace nuclear energy with wind and solar energy. The Russians are not coming. Greta’s world is coming. It is madness.

    Replies: @Beckow

  488. @Beckow
    @A123


    ...Baltic Pipe’s “European Gas for Europeans” will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
    — The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept.
     
    Have you looked at the small capacity that both would have? The Baltic is basically a repackaging of already existing Norway gas, no additional supply.

    The issue is not "EU approval", or what people like - the issue is that the gas for any pipeline has to come from somewhere. There are no unexplored magical sources. The gas fields that have not been used have high extraction costs (e.g. under the sea).

    I agree that Russia is "working by the book" - not breaking contracts, but not helping. It pisses off EU customers - but they are already (at least officially) in an extremely pissed off and hostile mood against anything Russian. They only buy because they have no alternative. Russia has now made it that way for both sides. It changes nothing - this is not about emotions, it is about resources, supplies and prices.

    Replies: @A123, @Aedib

    Have you looked at the small capacity that both would have? The Baltic is basically a repackaging of already existing Norway gas, no additional supply.

    You are half right. Baltic Pipe 1 is additional supply (not repackaging), however it is indeed relatively small 20-30% of the size of NS2. It repurposed some existing nearly idle pipes, and captured other underutilized capacity to minimize cost and time to completion. These choices constrained the capacity. Baltic1 meets immediate needs and serves as “Proof of Concept” for bypassing authoritarian Germany and its Green coalition.

    Once Baltic1 is approved and running, this will open the door to a much larger Baltic2 project. Norway’s massive TROLL field can fill pipes of any size for decades and there is a comparable magnitude find a bit further north, 35/2-1 (PEON), for additional decades of “European Gas for Europeans”.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

     

     
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-169/#comment-5004952

  489. @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    While his comparison to the “Spanish Flu” will not hold up under scrutiny, it is hard to see an sound bite that the Fake Stream Media can easily use out of context in a Lügenpresse advertisement.
     
    Why so? Covid unhampered could have infected and killed a lot more people over the last two years.

    Replies: @A123, @Yellowface Anon, @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Spanish flu killed young healthy people. Eighteen year-olds. There were real life real time Monty Python bring out your dead wagons.

    This is nothing like that.

    • Agree: Barbarossa, A123
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do you all realize that those most vulnerable age groups are also most white now in USA and Europe, differently from WWI times, therefore such position "oh, it's just the elders" is nothing but just speeding up the overall white replacement rate?

    Asked this question other forum users several times before, never even once got the answer.

    Replies: @A123, @Emil Nikola Richard

  490. @AP
    @songbird

    That's the number google gave, but it can be found in various links:

    https://data.thetowntalk.com/american-community-survey/block-group-1-census-tract-12602-barnstable-county-massachusetts/population/indian/num/15000US250010126021/

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2021/12/03/the-number-of-native-americans-in-every-state/6/

    https://www.facebook.com/assabetrivernwr/photos/indigenous-land-seriesthe-indigenous-people-of-massachusetts-have-been-on-this-l/4161150873909723/

    Maybe the lower number is those who claim it as primary ancestry and the higher those who claim any ancestry?

    Edit: Yes, the lower figure was probably for primary ancestry, presumably in 2010.

    2020 census:

    https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/massachusetts-population-change-between-census-decade.html

    Those who claimed native only ancestry were .3% of MA. That's 21,000 people (a large increase from nearly 15,000 in 2010). The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.

    Replies: @songbird

    The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.

    Same phenomenon in Canada, I am sure.

    [MORE]

    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.

    I want to expand a bit on what I see as some of the failings of WW2-relativism here:

    In the past, people were wont to invoke the Devil. I won’t say that they always did it morally, but, at least “Devil” is a fairly neutral and humble word, in and of itself. It does not speak to faction, or ethnicity, there is no pretense of scholarship. The humble fieldhand and rich landlord can use it both alike, frequently without a hint of seeking power or status from each other. In a way, referencing the Devil is making an indirect reference to God.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to “Hitler”predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European. When, they are usually seeking status or power unto themselves, from others. When they stroke their own ego, with a false sense of scholarship and virtue in knowing a name that is even drilled into the heads of people with a sub 70 IQ.

    Of course, there are other variants. I don’t want to say that these negative identities all focus on Hitler. Indians who are invading the UK will evoke Churchill. People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died. And I don’t want to say that it is all about WW2 (though, that is their predominant focus).

    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don’t argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn’t help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.

    I’m not sure so much false pride has ever existed in so many people before, in so big an alliance for evil, as come from these negative identities, which I think could only originate from modern materialism.

    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird

    I agree pretty much with everything with in your comment. But honestly, the attitude of a lot of American mainstream right-wingers is also a huge problem in this regard, and you even see it on this site. Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country's role in WW2, presumably because of their ore deliveries to Germany, and the transit of German troops to Norway (decisions which weren't uncontroversial in WW2 Sweden, but were seen as necessary to protect Swedish interests, and must also be seen against the background of German demands for more wide-ranging concessions, which were rejected). It doesn't seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    Replies: @songbird, @Max Demian, @silviosilver

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died.
     
    This is a bit complicated, because the military history of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War is so poorly documented in the West (although recent works by Peter Harmsen are quite good).

    The worst cited Japanese atrocity is typically the Nanjing Atrocity (December 1937). Most Westerners would highly question any propaganda from CCP, but would accept PRC's narrative of this at face value, that takes it out of context of the military situation.

    Nanjing was the capital of ROC and the battle for it was a total fiasco on the part of KMT where the commanding officer bailed on his soldiers at the last minute.

    The Japanese expected Chiang to surrender after losing his capital, of course Chiang refused and KMT shortly later wins a heroic riposte at Tai'erzhuang, the IJA failed to encircle and destroy Chinese troops at Wuhan, the IJA would be stuck in quicksand stalemate for another 8 years like the Peninsular War for Napoleon.

    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.

    Whereas the Japanese had this medieval army chimpout at Nanjing and went back to governing conquered territories, Nanjing, Shanghai, in typically organized, industrious Japanese way; as they had done in Manchuria, Korea, Taiwan.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    , @AP
    @songbird


    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don’t argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn’t help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.
     
    It is much simpler than that, at least from my perspective: the natives were simple and brutal savages, as our ancestors had once been. They needed to be tamed, taught, elevated, and improved (as our ancestors were), not destroyed. The Catholics - especially Spaniards - and Orthodox undertook this project and took serious efforts to tame and improve the natives, whereas the Anglo Calvinists in their heretical Old Testament-inspired zeal just destroyed them. They even destroyed the Cherokee who had become fairly civilized.

    Are these old crimes a legitimate excuse to destroy America today? Of course not. No more than they are a legitimate excuse for the Nazi treatment of the Slavs, as Goering famously attempted to do at his trial. This is not why I brought them up.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to “Hitler”predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European.
     
    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were. These were not naive barbarian brutes needing to be tamed, taught and civilized, but arguably the most cultured people in the world, behaving like savages. It is the definition of degeneracy, which is "having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type." The upper class Russians-turned-Bolsheviks were equally degenerate, of course. There is no "pride" in pointing that out.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

  491. @Beckow
    @A123


    ...Baltic Pipe’s “European Gas for Europeans” will complete next year bypassing both Russia and Germany. As an intra-EU venture it has an easier road to startup approval.
    — The Baltic Pipe 2 and EastMed proposals are lining up financing to permanently eliminate the Russia-Germany energy hub concept.
     
    Have you looked at the small capacity that both would have? The Baltic is basically a repackaging of already existing Norway gas, no additional supply.

    The issue is not "EU approval", or what people like - the issue is that the gas for any pipeline has to come from somewhere. There are no unexplored magical sources. The gas fields that have not been used have high extraction costs (e.g. under the sea).

    I agree that Russia is "working by the book" - not breaking contracts, but not helping. It pisses off EU customers - but they are already (at least officially) in an extremely pissed off and hostile mood against anything Russian. They only buy because they have no alternative. Russia has now made it that way for both sides. It changes nothing - this is not about emotions, it is about resources, supplies and prices.

    Replies: @A123, @Aedib

    I mostly agree with you. It is true that Russia is “working by the book”, not breaking contracts, but not helping. The funny thing is that Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode. Gazprom policy is crystal clear: maximum profit.
    The root of the disaster is trying to replace nuclear energy with wind and solar energy. The Russians are not coming. Greta’s world is coming. It is madness.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Aedib


    ...Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode.
     
    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by "well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously". Or even: "who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously."

    There is an element of a very dirty play in the West today, no sense of equal rules for all, no holding back from self-serving lying. The same methods are applied internally to push the insane woke agenda. People start playing dirty when they are losing, we may be observing a mental collapse of a civilization that can no longer survive by fair-play.

    You can't be a gentleman for 5 minutes, the West can't pick and choose when to act like one. They don't get the absurdity of what they do.

    Replies: @A123, @Pericles

  492. @Beckow
    @Aedib


    ...Gas is rapidly commoditizing.
     
    Gas is cheap and clean, and green policies have external costs: wind-mills are ugly and kill birds, they also create huge amount of garbage, as do solar panels. Plus their maintenance is very costly. Nuclear is better, but it takes a long time to build and is expensive to operate.

    Domestic gas supplies in Europe are running out. LNG has high upfront fixed cost and is unreliable. Any rational analysis shows that the direct pipeline supply of gas from Russia is the best available alternative. The fact that EU is jumping through hoops to destroy that option tells us all we need to know about their priorities and who sets them.

    Russia can export its gas to China, Korea, Turkey... The main consequence will be a dramatic increase in the cost of energy in Europe and shutting down energy-dependent industry (smelting, fertilizers). Another consequence would be a drop in EU exports to Russia - if you don't buy, you also don't sell. China-Korea will gladly grab those markets. SWIFT is a convenience - there are dozens of slower alternatives.

    The measly $5 billion Gazprom investment in NS2 is not significant and it doesn't drive Russia's decisions. Without NS2, German industry's costs go up. $5 billon is nothing in the big picture and with higher 2021 gas prices Gazprom has already made more in the last 6 months than the cost of NS2. They can easily let it go, it is purely symbolic.

    Can Berlin and Brussels be so stupid that they don't see this reality? I doubt it, when rational, smart actors act stupid, it is for a reason. In a hierarchy of strategic goals EU energy was deemed to be not that important. We will see if it turns out that way.

    (Or possibly they are simply fools, incompetent careerists with no business sense. A goat attacks from the front, a horse from the back, but fools attack in all directions. That explains the current uncertainty, the fools are unleashed...)

    Replies: @A123

    Can Berlin and Brussels be so stupid that they don’t see this reality? I doubt it, when rational, smart actors act stupid, it is for a reason. In a hierarchy of strategic goals EU energy was deemed to be not that important. We will see if it turns out that way.

    (Or possibly they are simply fools, incompetent careerists with no business sense. A goat attacks from the front, a horse from the back, but fools attack in all directions. That explains the current uncertainty, the fools are unleashed…)

    From the outside, dangerously mentally impaired is the obvious description for Berlin and Brussels.

    European WEF doctrine is set by Europe for Europe in Davos. It is unrelated to science or practicality. The purposes are; -A- Political SJW dogma, and; -B- Enriching Globalists who put money into solar and wind boondoggles.

    The European Elites at the top may not be stupid. Are German voters stupid or brainwashed? They supported Merkel’s anti-worker policies. Now they have the Scholz “Traffic Light” coalition which is actually more unhinged than Merkel’s MegaCorporation serving regime. The German people are behaving self destructively.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  493. @Aedib
    @Beckow

    I mostly agree with you. It is true that Russia is “working by the book”, not breaking contracts, but not helping. The funny thing is that Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode. Gazprom policy is crystal clear: maximum profit.
    The root of the disaster is trying to replace nuclear energy with wind and solar energy. The Russians are not coming. Greta’s world is coming. It is madness.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode.

    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by “well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously“. Or even: “who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously.

    There is an element of a very dirty play in the West today, no sense of equal rules for all, no holding back from self-serving lying. The same methods are applied internally to push the insane woke agenda. People start playing dirty when they are losing, we may be observing a mental collapse of a civilization that can no longer survive by fair-play.

    You can’t be a gentleman for 5 minutes, the West can’t pick and choose when to act like one. They don’t get the absurdity of what they do.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by “well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously“. Or even: “who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously.”
     
    There really are two levels of dialogue for "internal" & "external" consumption.

    The best example of this is the recent, obviously fake, controversy over WWII property claims. Polish, Israeli, and American politicians said things that were self-evidently clear for "internal" consumption only. Tiny, near insignificant, numbers of lobotomites misread the situation. Other more rational forces used the opening for their own "internal only" communications.

    In the real world, Israeli-Polish relations remained so rock solid they are cooperating on a military co-development project for an equivalent to the Russian Pantsir. If anyone serious in either Poland or Israel had actually been worked up over decades old claims, such cooperation would be impossible. It was a shadow play of form, absent of substance.
    ____

    How this concept ties to current Russia relations is problematic. There is no such thing as a "European" position. It is actually a much larger set of realtionships with smaller groups & individual countries.

    The new German coalition does seem genuinely determined to offend everyone. Most European nations oppose this sort of insanity. However, the number of nations dependant on Frankfurt Brussels financing makes visible opposition to official German Reich EU policy politically challenging.

    One has to believe there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged. For every Poland or Hungary in open resistance to Brussels there are several other nations in flux or limited resistance. The incoherence of the EU will eventual bring its end (or much more unlikely transformation). The key questions are:

    -- When will the current EU/EZ failure collapse?
    -- What will come after it (other than burning Brussels to the ground)?

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    _____________________

    P.S. Is using using the burning remains of Brussels to roast marshmallows and make Smores permitted holiday behaviour? There are some rules, and even worse social conventions, that elude me.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Pericles
    @Beckow


    There is an element of a very dirty play in the West today, no sense of equal rules for all, no holding back from self-serving lying. The same methods are applied internally to push the insane woke agenda. People start playing dirty when they are losing, we may be observing a mental collapse of a civilization that can no longer survive by fair-play.

     

    Well put, I have been thinking about this topic myself.
  494. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @AP


    The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.
     
    Same phenomenon in Canada, I am sure.

    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.
     
    I want to expand a bit on what I see as some of the failings of WW2-relativism here:

    In the past, people were wont to invoke the Devil. I won't say that they always did it morally, but, at least "Devil" is a fairly neutral and humble word, in and of itself. It does not speak to faction, or ethnicity, there is no pretense of scholarship. The humble fieldhand and rich landlord can use it both alike, frequently without a hint of seeking power or status from each other. In a way, referencing the Devil is making an indirect reference to God.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to "Hitler"predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European. When, they are usually seeking status or power unto themselves, from others. When they stroke their own ego, with a false sense of scholarship and virtue in knowing a name that is even drilled into the heads of people with a sub 70 IQ.

    Of course, there are other variants. I don't want to say that these negative identities all focus on Hitler. Indians who are invading the UK will evoke Churchill. People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died. And I don't want to say that it is all about WW2 (though, that is their predominant focus).

    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don't argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn't help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.

    I'm not sure so much false pride has ever existed in so many people before, in so big an alliance for evil, as come from these negative identities, which I think could only originate from modern materialism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @AP

    I agree pretty much with everything with in your comment. But honestly, the attitude of a lot of American mainstream right-wingers is also a huge problem in this regard, and you even see it on this site. Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country’s role in WW2, presumably because of their ore deliveries to Germany, and the transit of German troops to Norway (decisions which weren’t uncontroversial in WW2 Sweden, but were seen as necessary to protect Swedish interests, and must also be seen against the background of German demands for more wide-ranging concessions, which were rejected). It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    The US has good geography and scale for hypermoralizing. Probably the best.

    The neutrals come under a large amount of criticism in America. Switzerland for shooting down American planes (imagine letting those things go over your country), and for its banks. Perhaps, it is because Sweden and Switzerland are both seen as Germanic. I've wondered if they will ever come after Ireland, for allowing Germans POWs to have some level of freedom, but I think it might be too fringe and marginal.

    Honestly, I feel sorry for the boomers. First of all, because they probably knew a lot of people who fought in the war, so it is very seductive to see it all in black and white, or as the ultimate parable. Next, because they've nearly been exposed to the full brunt of propaganda on this. Many aren't technologically proficient, so they continue to be weaned on mainstream narratives, and don't get a lot of info about things like Henry Wallace's visit to Siberia. Or how Soviet POWs were handed back against their will.

    , @Max Demian
    @German_reader


    Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country’s role in WW2, [...]
    It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.
     
    The statement you are referring-to, from The Economist: Muslims in Denmark Are a Life-Long Burden on the Budget, Steve Sailer, December 19, 2021]

    I’m guessing that Denmark, unlike Sweden, not having anything to be feel guilty over in their World War II history helps today.
     
    Might Mr. Sailer have merely been describing-- not endorsing-- a prevalent mentality?

    Replies: @utu

    , @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.
     
    I don't think Sailer is serious about that though. I have every confidence he started out in life that way, but he's seen and learned too much in the intervening decades to really believe it. I think he just makes statements like that whenever he feels that he needs to sound more moderate. The reason is that ever since getting into hereditarian realism, he's been dragged further and further whitewards. Do you remember him from a decade or so ago, when everything was NAM this and NAM that? That was a lot milder than the sorts of things he been focusing on more recently.

    The NAM stuff was more analytical in nature. It touched on pro-white issues, but it never said directly to whites, hey idiots, wake up, you have racial interests that are being brazenly trampled by all and sundry. The NAM stuff was analysis of the "how race works in society" variety. Far too edgy for the average libtard, to be sure, but a sizeable portion of the Jewish population is actually quite comfortable with it. It's the kind of conversation they can control. Sure, it may make them nervous, and the risks are obvious, but it also means they can keep intellectual whites endlessly tied up in conversation and polite debate until the clock runs out.

    But Sailer's blog also attracted a lot of unapologetic pro-white types, unconcerned with (though wise to) Jewish sensibilities, and over time I think they had some effect on Sailer, pulling him closer to their own position. Sailer himself isn't exactly sure what he stands for, and I think he periodically feels that he's gone "too far," so he pulls back with "safety" statements - comments that are in line with other positions he has taken, but resolve any ambiguities to the safe side of the ledger. Of course, to the mainstream he remains a "white supremacist racist anti-semite", but in his own estimation it helps him feel more moderate. That's my take on it.

    Replies: @German_reader

  495. @German_reader
    @songbird

    I agree pretty much with everything with in your comment. But honestly, the attitude of a lot of American mainstream right-wingers is also a huge problem in this regard, and you even see it on this site. Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country's role in WW2, presumably because of their ore deliveries to Germany, and the transit of German troops to Norway (decisions which weren't uncontroversial in WW2 Sweden, but were seen as necessary to protect Swedish interests, and must also be seen against the background of German demands for more wide-ranging concessions, which were rejected). It doesn't seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    Replies: @songbird, @Max Demian, @silviosilver

    The US has good geography and scale for hypermoralizing. Probably the best.

    The neutrals come under a large amount of criticism in America. Switzerland for shooting down American planes (imagine letting those things go over your country), and for its banks. Perhaps, it is because Sweden and Switzerland are both seen as Germanic. I’ve wondered if they will ever come after Ireland, for allowing Germans POWs to have some level of freedom, but I think it might be too fringe and marginal.

    Honestly, I feel sorry for the boomers. First of all, because they probably knew a lot of people who fought in the war, so it is very seductive to see it all in black and white, or as the ultimate parable. Next, because they’ve nearly been exposed to the full brunt of propaganda on this. Many aren’t technologically proficient, so they continue to be weaned on mainstream narratives, and don’t get a lot of info about things like Henry Wallace’s visit to Siberia. Or how Soviet POWs were handed back against their will.

  496. Whether or not China develops its full media potential, I think Hollywood will still be on the losing side. At a minimum, it needs to compete for prestige with its own past and there are a lot of factors that will make that more and more difficult, as time goes on.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    I do believe that China has outpaced America as a consumer of films at this point. Even Hollywood is feeling great pressure to cater to the Chinese market. China's internal movie industry is certainly direct inward with a definite propaganda bent (unlike Hollywood, har har) for the time being, but I guess we'll see if they start directing that outward. With their economic investments in Africa that would seem to be a fertile ground for them to seed some self aggrandizing messaging.

    Replies: @songbird

  497. @songbird
    @AP


    The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.
     
    Same phenomenon in Canada, I am sure.

    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.
     
    I want to expand a bit on what I see as some of the failings of WW2-relativism here:

    In the past, people were wont to invoke the Devil. I won't say that they always did it morally, but, at least "Devil" is a fairly neutral and humble word, in and of itself. It does not speak to faction, or ethnicity, there is no pretense of scholarship. The humble fieldhand and rich landlord can use it both alike, frequently without a hint of seeking power or status from each other. In a way, referencing the Devil is making an indirect reference to God.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to "Hitler"predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European. When, they are usually seeking status or power unto themselves, from others. When they stroke their own ego, with a false sense of scholarship and virtue in knowing a name that is even drilled into the heads of people with a sub 70 IQ.

    Of course, there are other variants. I don't want to say that these negative identities all focus on Hitler. Indians who are invading the UK will evoke Churchill. People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died. And I don't want to say that it is all about WW2 (though, that is their predominant focus).

    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don't argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn't help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.

    I'm not sure so much false pride has ever existed in so many people before, in so big an alliance for evil, as come from these negative identities, which I think could only originate from modern materialism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @AP

    People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died.

    This is a bit complicated, because the military history of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War is so poorly documented in the West (although recent works by Peter Harmsen are quite good).

    The worst cited Japanese atrocity is typically the Nanjing Atrocity (December 1937). Most Westerners would highly question any propaganda from CCP, but would accept PRC’s narrative of this at face value, that takes it out of context of the military situation.

    Nanjing was the capital of ROC and the battle for it was a total fiasco on the part of KMT where the commanding officer bailed on his soldiers at the last minute.

    The Japanese expected Chiang to surrender after losing his capital, of course Chiang refused and KMT shortly later wins a heroic riposte at Tai’erzhuang, the IJA failed to encircle and destroy Chinese troops at Wuhan, the IJA would be stuck in quicksand stalemate for another 8 years like the Peninsular War for Napoleon.

    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.

    Whereas the Japanese had this medieval army chimpout at Nanjing and went back to governing conquered territories, Nanjing, Shanghai, in typically organized, industrious Japanese way; as they had done in Manchuria, Korea, Taiwan.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.
     
    I don't know that's a bit of a strange distinction imo. Obviously the Japanese didn't commit a genocide in the narrow sense (no attempt to physically exterminate an entire people like Nazi Germany did with the Jews), but there were certainly quite a few premeditated atrocities (even if some things are probably exaggerated, like the claims for 300 000 dead at Nanjing). In Malaya and Singapore they systematically killed thousands of Chinese in 1942, to remove potential opposition to their rule. And of course there was quite substantial mortality among forced labourers (also among American pows, of whom almost a third died iirc, but this doesn't seem to be much emphasized in the US nowadays anymore, since the Pacific war with its overtones of a race war is too politically incorrect).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I'm honestly not very knowledgeable about the Japanese in China. I once debated with myself whether to read about Nanjing, but ultimately decided against it, as I wasn't sure whether I would be able to separate the truth from the propaganda, and my interest in the war was waning.

    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore, by acting on his gut instinct, and hiding in the building where prisoners' belongings were stacked.

    Most of my knowledge is related to the Pacific, where the Japanese certainly did some gruesome things, like the Bataan Death March, or the Chichijima Incident. Or the way that many American POWs were executed. Don't know about scale, but there were certainly countless minor incidents in which for sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don't think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.

    I think part of it comes from the fact that they were a lot less developed, and less well-supplied. Maybe, it is also related to swords being so common, among them. But, if you go back in time to The Kantō Massacre, during which Kurosawa, who was only like 12, was told to watch a small opening like a drainpipe, in case any Koreans snuck by, I think it kind of shows that the Japanese might have had something of an alien mindset, or at least that they did, at that time.

    Two Germans actually escaped from a British camp in India and made it over to Japanese lines. If you ask me, they were flat out crazy, and lucky not to be killed on sight.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  498. German_reader says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died.
     
    This is a bit complicated, because the military history of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War is so poorly documented in the West (although recent works by Peter Harmsen are quite good).

    The worst cited Japanese atrocity is typically the Nanjing Atrocity (December 1937). Most Westerners would highly question any propaganda from CCP, but would accept PRC's narrative of this at face value, that takes it out of context of the military situation.

    Nanjing was the capital of ROC and the battle for it was a total fiasco on the part of KMT where the commanding officer bailed on his soldiers at the last minute.

    The Japanese expected Chiang to surrender after losing his capital, of course Chiang refused and KMT shortly later wins a heroic riposte at Tai'erzhuang, the IJA failed to encircle and destroy Chinese troops at Wuhan, the IJA would be stuck in quicksand stalemate for another 8 years like the Peninsular War for Napoleon.

    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.

    Whereas the Japanese had this medieval army chimpout at Nanjing and went back to governing conquered territories, Nanjing, Shanghai, in typically organized, industrious Japanese way; as they had done in Manchuria, Korea, Taiwan.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.

    I don’t know that’s a bit of a strange distinction imo. Obviously the Japanese didn’t commit a genocide in the narrow sense (no attempt to physically exterminate an entire people like Nazi Germany did with the Jews), but there were certainly quite a few premeditated atrocities (even if some things are probably exaggerated, like the claims for 300 000 dead at Nanjing). In Malaya and Singapore they systematically killed thousands of Chinese in 1942, to remove potential opposition to their rule. And of course there was quite substantial mortality among forced labourers (also among American pows, of whom almost a third died iirc, but this doesn’t seem to be much emphasized in the US nowadays anymore, since the Pacific war with its overtones of a race war is too politically incorrect).

    • Agree: iffen, Max Demian
    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    I'm not arguing this to apologize for Japanese war crimes; but both the Chinese and Koreans claim that Japanese have apologized as fully as Germans. There are reasons for this, and has current implications.

    The main responsibility for Nanjing Atrocity lies with the IJA commander, Iwane Matsui, who was ironically, amongst the more pro-China Japanese generals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwane_Matsui#The_"China_expert",_1906–31

    If interested you can read his bio,


    The CCAA suffered significant casualties fighting along the mountainous terrain just north of the city because Matsui had forbidden his men from using artillery there to prevent any damage from coming to its two famous historical sites, Sun Yat-sen Mausoleum and Ming Xiaoling Mausoleum.

     


    Matsui and his staff officers in the CCAA had been especially intent on ensuring that the property and citizens of third party nations were not harmed in order to avoid causing an international incident;[62] they had foreseen the possibility that their troops might disobey orders upon entering Nanjing, as many of them were poorly disciplined reservists.[65]

     

    He clearly had no plans of committing an atrocity, but as it had gone for Imperial Japan, "incidents" are instigated from below, examples are the various uprisings like February 26th Incident, and Mukden Incident to annex Manchuria.

    One must bear in mind the WWII Japanese leadership is their old regime, and they are still in power, and had never gone through a similar program to de-nazification, i.e. Abe's grandfather was the signer of Declaration of War against US.

    They were certainly very brutal colonizers but did not have as much of a radical ideology. In their memoirs, the Japanese generals would compare their experience in China with the Americans in Vietnam, with their main goal to remove Communism.

    **Also, both Mao and Chiang declined monetary reparations from Japan for various pragmatic reasons.

    Now the Chinese are saying somewhat, what the Japanese did are akin to the Shoah, so they must apologize as much as Germans did. But the Japanese would adamantly deny this. This is currently leading to a dangerous situation.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    I also don't mean to single out Germans, but rather that Nazism, Bolshevism, Maoism were each new, radical forces.

    The Imperial Japan ruling class was simply their old regime tracing back to antiquity.

    This ruling class is still in power today, in the same way as if Göring's grandson is the German Chancellor. This is so because that ruling class was protected by the US post-WWII against Soviets, and now against China.

  499. @songbird
    Whether or not China develops its full media potential, I think Hollywood will still be on the losing side. At a minimum, it needs to compete for prestige with its own past and there are a lot of factors that will make that more and more difficult, as time goes on.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I do believe that China has outpaced America as a consumer of films at this point. Even Hollywood is feeling great pressure to cater to the Chinese market. China’s internal movie industry is certainly direct inward with a definite propaganda bent (unlike Hollywood, har har) for the time being, but I guess we’ll see if they start directing that outward. With their economic investments in Africa that would seem to be a fertile ground for them to seed some self aggrandizing messaging.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I do believe that China has outpaced America as a consumer of films at this point.
     
    Yes that is true.

    Even Hollywood is feeling great pressure to cater to the Chinese market.
     
    Recently I watched part of a video by a gay guy who was arguing that they should not do this. And that they need more gays in trannies in their movies, that the gays in China are demanding it. It was really weird - I felt like I was watching a civilizational battle between our gay overlords and China. The video was definitely being promoted and had over a million views and there was a lot of force behind it. It seemed imperial. Less op-ed, than "We, Globohomo will crush them." And there was an angry undercurrent, and the legions seemed to be offscreen.

    I hope Yellowface Anon is wrong about the prospect of nuclear war.

    With their economic investments in Africa that would seem to be a fertile ground for them to seed some self aggrandizing messaging.
     
    I think I've seen a bit of this in the messaging in their films. Some people have said that this has changed recently, like see the first two minutes (bad movie) of "Operation Red Sea." (spoiler: they are shooting stand-ins for Somali pirates).
  500. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died.
     
    This is a bit complicated, because the military history of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War is so poorly documented in the West (although recent works by Peter Harmsen are quite good).

    The worst cited Japanese atrocity is typically the Nanjing Atrocity (December 1937). Most Westerners would highly question any propaganda from CCP, but would accept PRC's narrative of this at face value, that takes it out of context of the military situation.

    Nanjing was the capital of ROC and the battle for it was a total fiasco on the part of KMT where the commanding officer bailed on his soldiers at the last minute.

    The Japanese expected Chiang to surrender after losing his capital, of course Chiang refused and KMT shortly later wins a heroic riposte at Tai'erzhuang, the IJA failed to encircle and destroy Chinese troops at Wuhan, the IJA would be stuck in quicksand stalemate for another 8 years like the Peninsular War for Napoleon.

    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.

    Whereas the Japanese had this medieval army chimpout at Nanjing and went back to governing conquered territories, Nanjing, Shanghai, in typically organized, industrious Japanese way; as they had done in Manchuria, Korea, Taiwan.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    I’m honestly not very knowledgeable about the Japanese in China. I once debated with myself whether to read about Nanjing, but ultimately decided against it, as I wasn’t sure whether I would be able to separate the truth from the propaganda, and my interest in the war was waning.

    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore, by acting on his gut instinct, and hiding in the building where prisoners’ belongings were stacked.

    Most of my knowledge is related to the Pacific, where the Japanese certainly did some gruesome things, like the Bataan Death March, or the Chichijima Incident. Or the way that many American POWs were executed. Don’t know about scale, but there were certainly countless minor incidents in which for sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don’t think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.

    I think part of it comes from the fact that they were a lot less developed, and less well-supplied. Maybe, it is also related to swords being so common, among them. But, if you go back in time to The Kantō Massacre, during which Kurosawa, who was only like 12, was told to watch a small opening like a drainpipe, in case any Koreans snuck by, I think it kind of shows that the Japanese might have had something of an alien mindset, or at least that they did, at that time.

    Two Germans actually escaped from a British camp in India and made it over to Japanese lines. If you ask me, they were flat out crazy, and lucky not to be killed on sight.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore
     
    That was during the so-called Chook Sing massacres which I referred to in my previous comment; shortly after the conquest of Malaya and Singapore the Japanese rounded up Chinese they deemed dangerous (e. g. those associated with Chinese patriotic organizations or who had organized donations for the Chinese war effort) and executed them. Scale seems to be disputed, but it was at least a few thousand.
    I don't know to what extent Japan did something like that later in the war, it was after all counter-productive for their pan-Asian propaganda.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don’t think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.
     
    Agree with this (though the numerical scale was smaller).

    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War. You don't hear about those because those atrocities were committed by Chinese against other Chinese. The Chinese have hopefully, learned, not to conduct as a medieval army.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion#Fall_of_the_Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangzhou_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Changchun

    Again I'm not defending Japanese war crimes. But the narrative of "sadistic brutal Japanese" "poor helpless Chinese", without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.

    Replies: @songbird

  501. @Beckow
    @Aedib


    ...Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode.
     
    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by "well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously". Or even: "who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously."

    There is an element of a very dirty play in the West today, no sense of equal rules for all, no holding back from self-serving lying. The same methods are applied internally to push the insane woke agenda. People start playing dirty when they are losing, we may be observing a mental collapse of a civilization that can no longer survive by fair-play.

    You can't be a gentleman for 5 minutes, the West can't pick and choose when to act like one. They don't get the absurdity of what they do.

    Replies: @A123, @Pericles

    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by “well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously“. Or even: “who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously.”

    There really are two levels of dialogue for “internal” & “external” consumption.

    The best example of this is the recent, obviously fake, controversy over WWII property claims. Polish, Israeli, and American politicians said things that were self-evidently clear for “internal” consumption only. Tiny, near insignificant, numbers of lobotomites misread the situation. Other more rational forces used the opening for their own “internal only” communications.

    In the real world, Israeli-Polish relations remained so rock solid they are cooperating on a military co-development project for an equivalent to the Russian Pantsir. If anyone serious in either Poland or Israel had actually been worked up over decades old claims, such cooperation would be impossible. It was a shadow play of form, absent of substance.
    ____

    How this concept ties to current Russia relations is problematic. There is no such thing as a “European” position. It is actually a much larger set of realtionships with smaller groups & individual countries.

    The new German coalition does seem genuinely determined to offend everyone. Most European nations oppose this sort of insanity. However, the number of nations dependant on Frankfurt Brussels financing makes visible opposition to official German Reich EU policy politically challenging.

    One has to believe there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged. For every Poland or Hungary in open resistance to Brussels there are several other nations in flux or limited resistance. The incoherence of the EU will eventual bring its end (or much more unlikely transformation). The key questions are:

    — When will the current EU/EZ failure collapse?
    — What will come after it (other than burning Brussels to the ground)?

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    _____________________

    P.S. Is using using the burning remains of Brussels to roast marshmallows and make Smores permitted holiday behaviour? There are some rules, and even worse social conventions, that elude me.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123


    ...there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged.
     
    True, and that keeps the situation from getting worse. The problem is that there is such a thing as public shared space and over the last few years this space has been taken over by raving madmen, fanatics, bitter morons looking for revenge, and career-oriented sycophants. They set the tone in Brussels. The sycophants are most dangerous - their lack of convictions and short-term outlook drives the escalation.

    EU is brain-dead, but still a good source of plunder. The current EU setup cannot last, expanding or deepening EU is no longer possible. Brussels exists suspended in the air, lurching in every direction, arguing that any alternative is worse. That last argument is partially true, the fear of instability keeps a lid on any changes. But some dramatic changes are required.

    Cul-de-sacs are resolved by bypassing them - irrelevance cannot be fought, it has to be ignored. Poland-Hungary are trying the bypass, but it leaves them exposed to the cul-de-sac rules. All grandiose schemes to create a "united Europe" have always collapsed in the past - there were more of them than people admit. What we have today is not that different than what Napoleon or Hitler created (and others), including the obsessive ideological conformism and a bizarre desire to attack Russia (to get resources?). It used to be bloody, today it is just weird. At least so far.

    Replies: @A123

  502. @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry

    That is insane to pay that much money and have nothing to show for it. I live in the middle of nowhere and I have 50 acres, two houses, and a 36,000 sq. ft shop for about $800 a month in mortgage. Even if one factors in property taxes, it's still about $1600 a month. It's a very different set of priorities, certainly, but at least I will have something for my children. That is what strikes me most about the video, the complete lack of past or future. It's all about the now.

    Also, WTF is a "Cultural Strategist" ? Is she strategizing a culture of infinite godless sterility?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    “Cultural Strategist” ? Is she

    I don’t know this term, but I guess it is “management consultancy”. Like Accenture has a branch of the industry “Accenture Consulting”.

    Accenture Consulting has some branches relating to the strategy and culture in the businesses, with all kinds of specialists. In Accenture, they obsessed about “strategy”. The idea of being a “strategist” sounds like you are a Greek military commander, but probably it refers to office plankton in that branch of Accenture.

    Because they give consultancy and training including areas like leadership, organizational culture, etc. Some sessions from consultants can be helpful, most feel like waste of time. But all in general it makes employees feel important in some way, if only because of feeling the employer has excess funds.

    nsane to pay that much money and have nothing to show for it.

    Her rent is \$51,840 per year and she has only a small apartment, and not even inside New York. It’s crazy expensive for American standards?

    But whether it makes sense from “personal finance”, I guess depends on their income. The normal advice is to pay around 1/5th of income for rent.

    If her and boyfriend’s income is above \$250,000 per year, then they might be feeling not too bad. The question she doesn’t explain is which salary do you receive as a 27 year old “Cultural Strategist” in America today?

  503. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I'm honestly not very knowledgeable about the Japanese in China. I once debated with myself whether to read about Nanjing, but ultimately decided against it, as I wasn't sure whether I would be able to separate the truth from the propaganda, and my interest in the war was waning.

    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore, by acting on his gut instinct, and hiding in the building where prisoners' belongings were stacked.

    Most of my knowledge is related to the Pacific, where the Japanese certainly did some gruesome things, like the Bataan Death March, or the Chichijima Incident. Or the way that many American POWs were executed. Don't know about scale, but there were certainly countless minor incidents in which for sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don't think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.

    I think part of it comes from the fact that they were a lot less developed, and less well-supplied. Maybe, it is also related to swords being so common, among them. But, if you go back in time to The Kantō Massacre, during which Kurosawa, who was only like 12, was told to watch a small opening like a drainpipe, in case any Koreans snuck by, I think it kind of shows that the Japanese might have had something of an alien mindset, or at least that they did, at that time.

    Two Germans actually escaped from a British camp in India and made it over to Japanese lines. If you ask me, they were flat out crazy, and lucky not to be killed on sight.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore

    That was during the so-called Chook Sing massacres which I referred to in my previous comment; shortly after the conquest of Malaya and Singapore the Japanese rounded up Chinese they deemed dangerous (e. g. those associated with Chinese patriotic organizations or who had organized donations for the Chinese war effort) and executed them. Scale seems to be disputed, but it was at least a few thousand.
    I don’t know to what extent Japan did something like that later in the war, it was after all counter-productive for their pan-Asian propaganda.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    those associated with Chinese patriotic organizations or who had organized donations for the Chinese war effort
     
    That's quite interesting. I wonder how they got that information. My vague impression was that they were just rounding up military-age men. Perhaps, especially those with a certain bearing.

    Somewhat tangential, but people talk about how the Japanese were unfairly targeted in the US. The Niihau Incident literally happened on the first day of the war. And it seems like the Filipinos really viewed them as terrible collaborators. (Not that such things aren't understandable, in a way).

    Replies: @German_reader

  504. @German_reader
    @songbird


    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore
     
    That was during the so-called Chook Sing massacres which I referred to in my previous comment; shortly after the conquest of Malaya and Singapore the Japanese rounded up Chinese they deemed dangerous (e. g. those associated with Chinese patriotic organizations or who had organized donations for the Chinese war effort) and executed them. Scale seems to be disputed, but it was at least a few thousand.
    I don't know to what extent Japan did something like that later in the war, it was after all counter-productive for their pan-Asian propaganda.

    Replies: @songbird

    those associated with Chinese patriotic organizations or who had organized donations for the Chinese war effort

    That’s quite interesting. I wonder how they got that information. My vague impression was that they were just rounding up military-age men. Perhaps, especially those with a certain bearing.

    Somewhat tangential, but people talk about how the Japanese were unfairly targeted in the US. The Niihau Incident literally happened on the first day of the war. And it seems like the Filipinos really viewed them as terrible collaborators. (Not that such things aren’t understandable, in a way).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird

    There's a bit about it in Forgotten armies: Britain's Asian empire and the war with Japan by two British academics (vaguely left-wing and anti-empire, but I found it interesting when I read it in 2009; it's also on Library Genesis). I copy some of the relevant parts below the More tag.
    iirc there was also something in it about Japanese spies in Malaya, but I can't remember the details anymore.


    The sook ching – or ‘purification by elimination’, as it became known – was well underway by this date. It began on 18 February, when Chinese were ordered to report to screening centres. Some felt
    it was a call for registration for work. In some places the women, children and aged were summoned; where this occurred they were the first to be dismissed. In one case, a few hundred ‘very young girls and young women’ were concentrated in a machinery workshop store.
    They were released following the intercession by priests with a highranking officer. But the main targets were men of military age, aged fifteen to fifty. Some of the screenings lasted hours, or even days. The scene at Victoria Road was typical. The men squatted in the street. At its end, there was a long table, behind which sat an officer and very young Japanese lady, a resident from before the war, dressed in a local sarong kebaya, who asked questions about language, schooling
    and residence. An individual's answers to these questions were critical. A key category of men who were separated out were those who had been active in the China Relief Fund. The Japanese had
    collected their names from the newspapers and even, it was said, from records seized from the Bank of China which listed the officeholders. A man who had worked for its head, Tan Kah Kee, as a
    motor-repair mechanic was tied to a motor-cycle and dragged away. But the ‘King's Chinese’, who pleaded that they were less involved in the struggle for China, were also marked men. Many Straits Chinese had served in the Volunteers, and the Japanese made no distinction between the enlisted men of the Volunteers and the irregulars of Dalforce. Government servants were all at risk. Also vulnerable were Chinese schoolmasters. To wear spectacles was dangerous. So too was to bear tattoos, the indelible mark of a Triad connection. Men who spoke the Hainanese dialect were another target, as the Japanese believed them all to be communists.
    There was an arbitrariness and haphazardness to the process. Contradictory orders arrived for the officers involved. In some cases men were sorted en masse on the basis of their response to general
    questions with a simple show of hands, or they were sorted by category: towkays, government servants, hawkers, students. Some were given slips of paper stamped in Chinese, ‘Examined’; others were not. Those whose skin was stamped dared not wash for long afterwards. People who avoided the screening tried to take an impression of the mark from others. A gesture of the hand, the nonchalant swish of an officer's rattan cane, and an individual would be led away. At some screening centres the men were paraded before hooded informers. These were said to be renegade Taiwanese, betrayed communists and police detectives. Men searched their memories for people they could have offended. There were lucky escapes. The Indonesian communist Tan Malaka, incognito as a Chinese schoolteacher, walked through with his school students. The
    Raffles College student, and future prime minister Lee Kuan Yew was singled out once, but dodged back in the crowd on the pretext of fetching his belongings and passed through at a second screening unchecked. The veteran Straits Chinese leader Lim Boon Keng was hauled out of a line. Only the intervention of a Japanese officer who knew him from before the war saved him. The soldiers involved were under intense pressure to complete the process quickly. Some Japanese officers tried to intercede. The former press attaché Mamoru Shinozaki, newly released from Changi jail, was now working for the Foreign Ministry protecting neutrals; he began to issue safe-conduct passes to Chinese.
    The lucky ones filed through the gates of the makeshift screening centres and made it home. It was only very slowly that the fate of those who were taken away was known or, rather, began to be
    imagined. Few of those taken survived and no bodies were recovered to be buried by their families. The story is known only in fragments. The Malacca Volunteers, for example, were kept at Race Course Road on rice and water and what they could buy from hawkers until the morning of 28 February, when they were marched to Tanjong Katang, and then taken by truck to Bedok on the east coast. Their belongings were stripped from them. There, B Company and some stragglers
    from other groups, around ninety of them including five Malay officers, had their hands tied behind their backs. They were marched to stand alongside three trenches. The Japanese troops then opened fire: ten rounds, and then they moved on to the next group.
    Memoirs of Chinese who survived these screenings and the massacres that became known as the sook ching speak of the difficulty of recording the emotions they felt. There was a silence to the proceedings. One account of another massacre on the beach at Changi recalls that there was no calling out or wailing. The handful of people who escaped did so by playing dead under the bodies of their comrades. British troops were put to work burying the victims. It took nearly three weeks. Indiscriminate massacres occurred in outlying areas of the island until early March.

     

  505. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    I do believe that China has outpaced America as a consumer of films at this point. Even Hollywood is feeling great pressure to cater to the Chinese market. China's internal movie industry is certainly direct inward with a definite propaganda bent (unlike Hollywood, har har) for the time being, but I guess we'll see if they start directing that outward. With their economic investments in Africa that would seem to be a fertile ground for them to seed some self aggrandizing messaging.

    Replies: @songbird

    I do believe that China has outpaced America as a consumer of films at this point.

    Yes that is true.

    Even Hollywood is feeling great pressure to cater to the Chinese market.

    Recently I watched part of a video by a gay guy who was arguing that they should not do this. And that they need more gays in trannies in their movies, that the gays in China are demanding it. It was really weird – I felt like I was watching a civilizational battle between our gay overlords and China. The video was definitely being promoted and had over a million views and there was a lot of force behind it. It seemed imperial. Less op-ed, than “We, Globohomo will crush them.” And there was an angry undercurrent, and the legions seemed to be offscreen.

    I hope Yellowface Anon is wrong about the prospect of nuclear war.

    With their economic investments in Africa that would seem to be a fertile ground for them to seed some self aggrandizing messaging.

    I think I’ve seen a bit of this in the messaging in their films. Some people have said that this has changed recently, like see the first two minutes (bad movie) of “Operation Red Sea.” (spoiler: they are shooting stand-ins for Somali pirates).

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  506. @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.
     
    I don't know that's a bit of a strange distinction imo. Obviously the Japanese didn't commit a genocide in the narrow sense (no attempt to physically exterminate an entire people like Nazi Germany did with the Jews), but there were certainly quite a few premeditated atrocities (even if some things are probably exaggerated, like the claims for 300 000 dead at Nanjing). In Malaya and Singapore they systematically killed thousands of Chinese in 1942, to remove potential opposition to their rule. And of course there was quite substantial mortality among forced labourers (also among American pows, of whom almost a third died iirc, but this doesn't seem to be much emphasized in the US nowadays anymore, since the Pacific war with its overtones of a race war is too politically incorrect).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I’m not arguing this to apologize for Japanese war crimes; but both the Chinese and Koreans claim that Japanese have apologized as fully as Germans. There are reasons for this, and has current implications.

    The main responsibility for Nanjing Atrocity lies with the IJA commander, Iwane Matsui, who was ironically, amongst the more pro-China Japanese generals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwane_Matsui#The_”China_expert&#8221;,_1906–31

    If interested you can read his bio,

    The CCAA suffered significant casualties fighting along the mountainous terrain just north of the city because Matsui had forbidden his men from using artillery there to prevent any damage from coming to its two famous historical sites, Sun Yat-sen Mausoleum and Ming Xiaoling Mausoleum.

    Matsui and his staff officers in the CCAA had been especially intent on ensuring that the property and citizens of third party nations were not harmed in order to avoid causing an international incident;[62] they had foreseen the possibility that their troops might disobey orders upon entering Nanjing, as many of them were poorly disciplined reservists.[65]

    He clearly had no plans of committing an atrocity, but as it had gone for Imperial Japan, “incidents” are instigated from below, examples are the various uprisings like February 26th Incident, and Mukden Incident to annex Manchuria.

    One must bear in mind the WWII Japanese leadership is their old regime, and they are still in power, and had never gone through a similar program to de-nazification, i.e. Abe’s grandfather was the signer of Declaration of War against US.

    They were certainly very brutal colonizers but did not have as much of a radical ideology. In their memoirs, the Japanese generals would compare their experience in China with the Americans in Vietnam, with their main goal to remove Communism.

    **Also, both Mao and Chiang declined monetary reparations from Japan for various pragmatic reasons.

    Now the Chinese are saying somewhat, what the Japanese did are akin to the Shoah, so they must apologize as much as Germans did. But the Japanese would adamantly deny this. This is currently leading to a dangerous situation.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Now the Chinese are saying somewhat, what the Japanese did are akin to the Shoah, so they must apologize as much as Germans did.
     
    I certainly don't think the Japanese should do that, and as I wrote in my previous comment, I don't think Japan committed genocide in the strict sense of the term.
    I don't have much of an opinion on the Nanjing massacre tbh. I think it's clear there was some kind of large-scale massacre (and I think even most Japanese would admit that), but beyond that it gets all pretty murky and hard to evaluate, especially if one doesn't know the relevant languages (and I obviously don't).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  507. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader


    those associated with Chinese patriotic organizations or who had organized donations for the Chinese war effort
     
    That's quite interesting. I wonder how they got that information. My vague impression was that they were just rounding up military-age men. Perhaps, especially those with a certain bearing.

    Somewhat tangential, but people talk about how the Japanese were unfairly targeted in the US. The Niihau Incident literally happened on the first day of the war. And it seems like the Filipinos really viewed them as terrible collaborators. (Not that such things aren't understandable, in a way).

    Replies: @German_reader

    There’s a bit about it in Forgotten armies: Britain’s Asian empire and the war with Japan by two British academics (vaguely left-wing and anti-empire, but I found it interesting when I read it in 2009; it’s also on Library Genesis). I copy some of the relevant parts below the More tag.
    iirc there was also something in it about Japanese spies in Malaya, but I can’t remember the details anymore.

    [MORE]

    The sook ching – or ‘purification by elimination’, as it became known – was well underway by this date. It began on 18 February, when Chinese were ordered to report to screening centres. Some felt
    it was a call for registration for work. In some places the women, children and aged were summoned; where this occurred they were the first to be dismissed. In one case, a few hundred ‘very young girls and young women’ were concentrated in a machinery workshop store.
    They were released following the intercession by priests with a highranking officer. But the main targets were men of military age, aged fifteen to fifty. Some of the screenings lasted hours, or even days. The scene at Victoria Road was typical. The men squatted in the street. At its end, there was a long table, behind which sat an officer and very young Japanese lady, a resident from before the war, dressed in a local sarong kebaya, who asked questions about language, schooling
    and residence. An individual’s answers to these questions were critical. A key category of men who were separated out were those who had been active in the China Relief Fund. The Japanese had
    collected their names from the newspapers and even, it was said, from records seized from the Bank of China which listed the officeholders. A man who had worked for its head, Tan Kah Kee, as a
    motor-repair mechanic was tied to a motor-cycle and dragged away. But the ‘King’s Chinese’, who pleaded that they were less involved in the struggle for China, were also marked men. Many Straits Chinese had served in the Volunteers, and the Japanese made no distinction between the enlisted men of the Volunteers and the irregulars of Dalforce. Government servants were all at risk. Also vulnerable were Chinese schoolmasters. To wear spectacles was dangerous. So too was to bear tattoos, the indelible mark of a Triad connection. Men who spoke the Hainanese dialect were another target, as the Japanese believed them all to be communists.
    There was an arbitrariness and haphazardness to the process. Contradictory orders arrived for the officers involved. In some cases men were sorted en masse on the basis of their response to general
    questions with a simple show of hands, or they were sorted by category: towkays, government servants, hawkers, students. Some were given slips of paper stamped in Chinese, ‘Examined’; others were not. Those whose skin was stamped dared not wash for long afterwards. People who avoided the screening tried to take an impression of the mark from others. A gesture of the hand, the nonchalant swish of an officer’s rattan cane, and an individual would be led away. At some screening centres the men were paraded before hooded informers. These were said to be renegade Taiwanese, betrayed communists and police detectives. Men searched their memories for people they could have offended. There were lucky escapes. The Indonesian communist Tan Malaka, incognito as a Chinese schoolteacher, walked through with his school students. The
    Raffles College student, and future prime minister Lee Kuan Yew was singled out once, but dodged back in the crowd on the pretext of fetching his belongings and passed through at a second screening unchecked. The veteran Straits Chinese leader Lim Boon Keng was hauled out of a line. Only the intervention of a Japanese officer who knew him from before the war saved him. The soldiers involved were under intense pressure to complete the process quickly. Some Japanese officers tried to intercede. The former press attaché Mamoru Shinozaki, newly released from Changi jail, was now working for the Foreign Ministry protecting neutrals; he began to issue safe-conduct passes to Chinese.
    The lucky ones filed through the gates of the makeshift screening centres and made it home. It was only very slowly that the fate of those who were taken away was known or, rather, began to be
    imagined. Few of those taken survived and no bodies were recovered to be buried by their families. The story is known only in fragments. The Malacca Volunteers, for example, were kept at Race Course Road on rice and water and what they could buy from hawkers until the morning of 28 February, when they were marched to Tanjong Katang, and then taken by truck to Bedok on the east coast. Their belongings were stripped from them. There, B Company and some stragglers
    from other groups, around ninety of them including five Malay officers, had their hands tied behind their backs. They were marched to stand alongside three trenches. The Japanese troops then opened fire: ten rounds, and then they moved on to the next group.
    Memoirs of Chinese who survived these screenings and the massacres that became known as the sook ching speak of the difficulty of recording the emotions they felt. There was a silence to the proceedings. One account of another massacre on the beach at Changi recalls that there was no calling out or wailing. The handful of people who escaped did so by playing dead under the bodies of their comrades. British troops were put to work burying the victims. It took nearly three weeks. Indiscriminate massacres occurred in outlying areas of the island until early March.

    • Thanks: songbird
  508. @songbird
    @AP


    The Elizabeth Warrens add another 1%.
     
    Same phenomenon in Canada, I am sure.

    Yes, there is indeed something degenerate about making excuses for evil behavior because of the times or whatever.
     
    I want to expand a bit on what I see as some of the failings of WW2-relativism here:

    In the past, people were wont to invoke the Devil. I won't say that they always did it morally, but, at least "Devil" is a fairly neutral and humble word, in and of itself. It does not speak to faction, or ethnicity, there is no pretense of scholarship. The humble fieldhand and rich landlord can use it both alike, frequently without a hint of seeking power or status from each other. In a way, referencing the Devil is making an indirect reference to God.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to "Hitler"predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European. When, they are usually seeking status or power unto themselves, from others. When they stroke their own ego, with a false sense of scholarship and virtue in knowing a name that is even drilled into the heads of people with a sub 70 IQ.

    Of course, there are other variants. I don't want to say that these negative identities all focus on Hitler. Indians who are invading the UK will evoke Churchill. People in the US might evoke the Japanese internment camps, completely sweeping under the rug the camps Japan had, where many died. And I don't want to say that it is all about WW2 (though, that is their predominant focus).

    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don't argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn't help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.

    I'm not sure so much false pride has ever existed in so many people before, in so big an alliance for evil, as come from these negative identities, which I think could only originate from modern materialism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @AP

    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don’t argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn’t help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.

    It is much simpler than that, at least from my perspective: the natives were simple and brutal savages, as our ancestors had once been. They needed to be tamed, taught, elevated, and improved (as our ancestors were), not destroyed. The Catholics – especially Spaniards – and Orthodox undertook this project and took serious efforts to tame and improve the natives, whereas the Anglo Calvinists in their heretical Old Testament-inspired zeal just destroyed them. They even destroyed the Cherokee who had become fairly civilized.

    Are these old crimes a legitimate excuse to destroy America today? Of course not. No more than they are a legitimate excuse for the Nazi treatment of the Slavs, as Goering famously attempted to do at his trial. This is not why I brought them up.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to “Hitler”predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European.

    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were. These were not naive barbarian brutes needing to be tamed, taught and civilized, but arguably the most cultured people in the world, behaving like savages. It is the definition of degeneracy, which is “having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type.” The upper class Russians-turned-Bolsheviks were equally degenerate, of course. There is no “pride” in pointing that out.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    The Catholics – especially Spaniards
     
    Population density, ad nauseam. In fact, you can duplicate it with the ultimate ruthless warriors, Proto-Indo Europeans. They conquered Southern Europe, but there wasn't the extreme population turnover there, nor in Southern India, where many Dravidians can still be seen today.

    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were.
     
    Oh, but I think you are wrong.

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable. Pointing to the '30s and '40s as the most degenerate time, doesn't make any sense on numerous levels.

    I don't think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained. Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place? It makes absolutely zero sense.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc. Alien foreigners on the dole in public housing. In your face gayness, or people being called racists, where you could have searched all day for a black thirty years ago.

    Your definition is unworkable. Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate? No, that will simply make them more degenerate.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    , @songbird
    @AP

    I'd like to add this: Pat Buchanan was probably the only one who could have kept/brought us out of the Middle East. But he was relentlessly slandered by being called a "Nazi." Would he have won otherwise, without this active opposition because he recognized the importance of closing the border? I don't know.

    But it is at least glancingly possible that hundreds of thousands of people died because he was called a Nazi.

    Anyway, even outside of the Middle East, it seems obvious that Nazis have been used as a tool to greatly increase the potentiality for ethnic conflict, rather than minimize it. And I see no evidence that it has limited mortality. It didn't prevent Rwanda. I'm not sure that it has prevented anything.

    Replies: @iffen

  509. German_reader says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    I'm not arguing this to apologize for Japanese war crimes; but both the Chinese and Koreans claim that Japanese have apologized as fully as Germans. There are reasons for this, and has current implications.

    The main responsibility for Nanjing Atrocity lies with the IJA commander, Iwane Matsui, who was ironically, amongst the more pro-China Japanese generals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwane_Matsui#The_"China_expert",_1906–31

    If interested you can read his bio,


    The CCAA suffered significant casualties fighting along the mountainous terrain just north of the city because Matsui had forbidden his men from using artillery there to prevent any damage from coming to its two famous historical sites, Sun Yat-sen Mausoleum and Ming Xiaoling Mausoleum.

     


    Matsui and his staff officers in the CCAA had been especially intent on ensuring that the property and citizens of third party nations were not harmed in order to avoid causing an international incident;[62] they had foreseen the possibility that their troops might disobey orders upon entering Nanjing, as many of them were poorly disciplined reservists.[65]

     

    He clearly had no plans of committing an atrocity, but as it had gone for Imperial Japan, "incidents" are instigated from below, examples are the various uprisings like February 26th Incident, and Mukden Incident to annex Manchuria.

    One must bear in mind the WWII Japanese leadership is their old regime, and they are still in power, and had never gone through a similar program to de-nazification, i.e. Abe's grandfather was the signer of Declaration of War against US.

    They were certainly very brutal colonizers but did not have as much of a radical ideology. In their memoirs, the Japanese generals would compare their experience in China with the Americans in Vietnam, with their main goal to remove Communism.

    **Also, both Mao and Chiang declined monetary reparations from Japan for various pragmatic reasons.

    Now the Chinese are saying somewhat, what the Japanese did are akin to the Shoah, so they must apologize as much as Germans did. But the Japanese would adamantly deny this. This is currently leading to a dangerous situation.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Now the Chinese are saying somewhat, what the Japanese did are akin to the Shoah, so they must apologize as much as Germans did.

    I certainly don’t think the Japanese should do that, and as I wrote in my previous comment, I don’t think Japan committed genocide in the strict sense of the term.
    I don’t have much of an opinion on the Nanjing massacre tbh. I think it’s clear there was some kind of large-scale massacre (and I think even most Japanese would admit that), but beyond that it gets all pretty murky and hard to evaluate, especially if one doesn’t know the relevant languages (and I obviously don’t).

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    There was the book The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II by Iris Chang (RIP) which had pointed out to have significant historical methodological issues. The highest claim for Nanjing Atrocity is 300,000 so you can judge for yourself the appropriateness of the comparison*.

    This is problematic because any questioning of the Nanjing Atrocity narrative can be associated with Holocaust denial, which as you know has legal ramifications in Germany. And comes at a time when China-Japan tensions are high where the Chinese perceives themselves as former victims, but are perceived by Japan (and the West) to be the aggressor.

    *This is in light of the fact that the Japanese had directly gone against Nazi requests regarding Jews--


    Shanghai was notable for a long period as the only place in the world that unconditionally offered refuge for Jews escaping from the Nazis.[1]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Ghetto

    During World War II, despite being allied with Nazi Germany, the Empire of Japan along with Italy did not diplomatically support the Nazi invasion of Poland, and the Japanese actively supported the Polish government-in-exile.

    The Japanese agents also sheltered Polish-Jewish refugees fleeing occupation from both German and Soviet forces, though at first it was done without proper authorization from the Imperial government in Tokyo.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan-Poland_relations

    Replies: @German_reader

  510. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I'm honestly not very knowledgeable about the Japanese in China. I once debated with myself whether to read about Nanjing, but ultimately decided against it, as I wasn't sure whether I would be able to separate the truth from the propaganda, and my interest in the war was waning.

    I do know that LKY, if he can be believed, narrowly avoided being liquidated in Singapore, by acting on his gut instinct, and hiding in the building where prisoners' belongings were stacked.

    Most of my knowledge is related to the Pacific, where the Japanese certainly did some gruesome things, like the Bataan Death March, or the Chichijima Incident. Or the way that many American POWs were executed. Don't know about scale, but there were certainly countless minor incidents in which for sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don't think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.

    I think part of it comes from the fact that they were a lot less developed, and less well-supplied. Maybe, it is also related to swords being so common, among them. But, if you go back in time to The Kantō Massacre, during which Kurosawa, who was only like 12, was told to watch a small opening like a drainpipe, in case any Koreans snuck by, I think it kind of shows that the Japanese might have had something of an alien mindset, or at least that they did, at that time.

    Two Germans actually escaped from a British camp in India and made it over to Japanese lines. If you ask me, they were flat out crazy, and lucky not to be killed on sight.

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don’t think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.

    Agree with this (though the numerical scale was smaller).

    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War. You don’t hear about those because those atrocities were committed by Chinese against other Chinese. The Chinese have hopefully, learned, not to conduct as a medieval army.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion#Fall_of_the_Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangzhou_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Changchun

    Again I’m not defending Japanese war crimes. But the narrative of “sadistic brutal Japanese” “poor helpless Chinese”, without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War.
     
    Good point. I recall hearing about some gruesome incidents during the Boxer Rebellion, but I didn't compare it because I thinking about it as being part of a different era. Also heard about some during the Cultural Revolution, but I blamed it on communists or propaganda. But I guess the Civil War (which I don't much about) would make the comparison more contemporary, and possibly less ideological.

    without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.
     
    It is quite odd to see Japanese today. They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

    Personally, I think it had more to do with circumstances. Levels of development, geography, and the fact that Europeans undoubtedly were interacting with each other on a greater level for hundreds of years.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  511. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Russia has more than enough talented and educated people
     
    Agree, and the ones abroad are well known. The founder of Revolut is Russian (with a Ukrainian co-founder, with a large office in Lithuania). And there are many out there. However, to build and scale a global business on the level of Uber and similar.... how many Russian executives are out there who are hands on enough to have done that? Not as many. And if they have they could work anywhere. So to build at the level of Amazon and such, or even to, let's say, move Yandex beyond Russia and just Russophone consumers like the Americans, the British and the Chinese have done with their companies would probably require some international talent. Ideally, they should repatriate the talent to help out the Russian companies the way it's happening with some Chinese.

    Otherwise, I do agree with your main points.



    Btw. Speaking of the legal environment. Morgenshtern just put out a new video out of Dubai on this topic with lyrics such as "You can take my business, but you can't take my happiness", "I left Russia because it got too cold there".

    And as you say, changing the legal and political environment would be undesirable for the current establishment. On the one hand they're preserving their "values" but in some ways they're also holding Russia down.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Morgenshtern just put out a new video

    Lol with Abdurozik, nemesis of Kadyrov’s Hasbik. So something to support your theory.
    https://lenta.ru/news/2021/07/26/hasbik2/ .

    And he even 1:04 what we were saying last open thread about how this story was louder than Oxxxymiron’s comeback. Like he is copying our last discussion thread for lyrics inspiration.

    Oxxymiron’s album has a song implicitly against Morgenshtern. And in this song also saying that we don’t have real gangster rap, because being a gangster is the prerogative of government (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyrBuSbFP2Y.). And authorities seems to indicate they will not complain https://www.gazeta.ru/culture/news/2021/12/04/n_16964299.shtml

    So really Oxxxymiron is probably won’t be popular enough for them to care. It’s like pressing on Oxxxymiron would be a waste of time, not enough masses even know him. Meanwhile Surkov was using Oxxxymiron lyrics in official speeches.

    yrics such as “You can take my business, but you can’t take my happiness”, “I left Russia because it got too cold there”.

    I don’t think he can really escape, not just because he relies on the Russian domestic market, but because he is so famous. They might ask Interpol.

    I guess he has some bargaining leverage of public opinion, as the extortion became too open. After the YouTube interview with Gordon this summer he said that they would give him money in exchange for pro-Putin songs.

    preserving their “values” but in some ways they’re also holding Russia down.

    Sure to understate from an external perspective. But from their interest, you have to hold a sheep down, to harvest it for wool. You have to lock the chickens’ cage, so your animals don’t escape in the night.

    An interesting question is to what extent this priority of control can diverge from even other cynical things like maximizing GDP, that America’s elite might prioritize.

    Russia’s GDP is lower today than it was in 2008. That’s almost 12 years with net negative economic growth. But if you look at how self-happy Chubais was when in the debate with Navalny, you would imagine the opposite of the reality. Chubais really does not seem worried about the GDP. Which is sensible emotionally, as the current economic level, can provide an unimaginable comfort for the ruling class, if only they can continue as the ruling class. Of course, the control should be priority for them.

  512. Nick Johnson’s video about the trailer housing of South Carolina.

    Some don’t look bad, but they say they depreciate as investments (like cars) and people often don’t own the land, even if they own the trailer. This economics can be contributing to downward social mobility of working class Americans. Poorer people might only rent the trailer and the land.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Is there a mobile home park equivalent in Russia? Where does the lower class Russian find shelter these days? I used to have a Russian boarder living with me from Pskov who would always try to tempt me to move to his town, tempting me with a decent house for a couple of thousand bucks? He drove a rig here for several years (as do many Russians and Ukrainians), made some money, went back and now lives in Crimea (he was ex-military). There are a lot of videos on YouTube showing abandoned and dilapidated towns in Ukraine. If you can stomach no electricity and no water, you could move in and live for free. There are probably similar ghost towns in Russia too?..........

    Replies: @Dmitry

  513. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    The Spanish flu killed young healthy people. Eighteen year-olds. There were real life real time Monty Python bring out your dead wagons.

    This is nothing like that.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Do you all realize that those most vulnerable age groups are also most white now in USA and Europe, differently from WWI times, therefore such position “oh, it’s just the elders” is nothing but just speeding up the overall white replacement rate?

    Asked this question other forum users several times before, never even once got the answer.

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death


    Do you all realize that those most vulnerable age groups are also most white now in USA and Europe,
     
    The most vulnerable groups for preexisting conditions, especially undiagnosed or poorly treated, are non-white.

    Groups most likely for the trifecta of maximum risk: Age > 65 years, multiple preexisting conditions, & unvaccinated? Also non-white.

    The idea that the WUHAN-19 escape from a CCP virus lab is particularly damaging to Red States and white populations does not hold up very well. Even within Red States there are pockets of "Blue" populations, so overall state numbers are a poor indicator.

    I wish AE was still around. Trying to find a good source and visualization for this topic is not straightforward.
    ____

    Once you include government anti-science dogma, incompetence, and corruption... those forces point to "DNC Blue" as a source of fatalities.

    "Granny Killer" Cuomo forced WUHAN-19 infected patients into Nursing Homes thus maximizing body count. Compare that to DeSantis's response in Florida. WUHAN-19 cases were explicitly ordered to other facilities and prohibited from Nursing Homes.

    DeSantis also took advantage of good science to roll out treatment facilities in his Red State. Not-The-President Biden's response was trying to steal medical supplies from Florida to make Floridians sicker. This should have been a media firestorm, but the Lügenpresse covered up instead. DeSantis showed effective government by end running the current illegitimate, occupied White House regime. (1)(2)

    Florida’s DeSantis Responds to Biden Limiting Florida COVID Therapeutics – Announces Monoclonal Antibody Purchases Directly From Glaxo Smith Kline

    During a press conference earlier today, Governor DeSantis outlined the issues Florida is facing after the Biden administration instructed the federal offices of HHS to punish the successful therapy and recovery efforts of the sunshine state healthcare system. DeSantis outlines the purchase agreement that Biden intentionally violated and also the issues created by the federal government now blocking direct purchasing of treatment from the manufacturer.

    Additionally, DeSantis noted he has held meetings with GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) to purchase mAb shipments directly from the second source manufacturer in order to work around the roadblocks being presented by the Biden administration. DeSantis reaffirmed his commitment to stand in the way, and not allow Joe Biden to kill Americans just because he doesn’t like their politics.
     
    The anti-Science dogma of the SJW/DNC regarding WUHAN-19 virus makes the current situation worse.
    ___

    However, there is a silver lining. Americans are learning to point at Leftoids and laugh when they push fake science.

    Mythical Global Cooling / Warming / Change will be the next ludicrous fallacy to be wiped out. We have had "Only 10 Years to Save the Earth!" for 50+ years. Logic has come home to roost. If The Church of Al Gore (see [MORE]) was telling the truth in the 1970's all human life is now extinct. There seem to be at least 8 billion problems with his Leftoid fear mongering.....

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    _________________________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/?s=Monoclonal

    (2) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/16/florida-desantis-responds-to-biden-limiting-florida-covid-therapeutics-announces-monoclonal-antibody-purchases-directly-from-glaxo-smith-kline/



    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f9/98/c4/f998c47aef5a4d1d87acc1bbed3aaa5c.jpg
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @sudden death

    Mixing controversies together in building an agenda is not competent rhetoric.

    That is possibly true. Let's say that it is. Why in the heck would you even bring it up? It's like mixing watermelon and garlic toast. Let's say I think they go together great. That is not something I would ever tell somebody else because they are going to agree .01% of the time and they are going to think I am kind of a weirdo over 90% of the time.

    Replies: @sudden death

  514. @Beckow
    @Aedib


    ...Eurocrats are in “Russia help us, so we can spit your face tomorrow!” mode.
     
    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by "well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously". Or even: "who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously."

    There is an element of a very dirty play in the West today, no sense of equal rules for all, no holding back from self-serving lying. The same methods are applied internally to push the insane woke agenda. People start playing dirty when they are losing, we may be observing a mental collapse of a civilization that can no longer survive by fair-play.

    You can't be a gentleman for 5 minutes, the West can't pick and choose when to act like one. They don't get the absurdity of what they do.

    Replies: @A123, @Pericles

    There is an element of a very dirty play in the West today, no sense of equal rules for all, no holding back from self-serving lying. The same methods are applied internally to push the insane woke agenda. People start playing dirty when they are losing, we may be observing a mental collapse of a civilization that can no longer survive by fair-play.

    Well put, I have been thinking about this topic myself.

  515. Just for the future reference – Lithuania, which does not have any long term contracts with Gazprom and was buying nat gas at spot market from all over the world, both from LNG import terminal and still existing land pipelines, had the lowest EU prices for household customers and not any different prices for non-household customers than other EU countries, at the first half of 2021.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Natural_gas_price_statistics

    Now it is needed to wait for the second half statistics and average yearly price, then the situation will be more clearly defined than manufactured hysteria during current several months.

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death

    My understanding is Lithuania hedged well. They have non-Russian, long term, fixed price contracts for delivery to their LNG port. If NatGas prices had gone down from the hedge level there would be screaming and possibly public unrest. Fortunately (for them), the price moved up from the hedge level, so they look really clever.

    Patience is required. The artificial shortage created by politics, for politicians will eventually end, causing prices to return to sustainable market levels. European politics will normalize or Germany will be 100% bypassed for energy distribution. Either way, we are talking about years not decades.
    ___

    I am not sure where you heard the phrase "buying like crazy" as that does not seem to fit the current scenario. Perhaps a single Lithuanian company (not the nation) was caught out?

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    Replies: @sudden death

  516. • Replies: @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Will steal one comment from ZH:


    Some people prefer freedom from being beholden to Russia over the love of money.
    This is what Russia ultimately fears anyhow. The erection of a robust multi-player bid market for the EU. It will take time to develop and other players are gradually making their way into what was once a pretty solid Russian monopoly market.
     
    In extra case ECB can print jus as easy as FED and European Commision backed near zero cost loans can be mandated for EU wide LNG import total capacity expansion which is achievable way sooner than new nuclear building.

    Some people in RF understand it quite well too, but luckily not those at the the helm now:

    https://el-murid.livejournal.com/4986863.html

    Replies: @Aedib

  517. @Aedib
    Have fun!

    https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/commodity-traders-find-huge-arbitrage-opportunity-lng-ships-head-europe

    Replies: @sudden death

    Will steal one comment from ZH:

    Some people prefer freedom from being beholden to Russia over the love of money.
    This is what Russia ultimately fears anyhow. The erection of a robust multi-player bid market for the EU. It will take time to develop and other players are gradually making their way into what was once a pretty solid Russian monopoly market.

    In extra case ECB can print jus as easy as FED and European Commision backed near zero cost loans can be mandated for EU wide LNG import total capacity expansion which is achievable way sooner than new nuclear building.

    Some people in RF understand it quite well too, but luckily not those at the the helm now:

    https://el-murid.livejournal.com/4986863.html

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @sudden death

    Well, in any case, Russia should continue with its “go east” policy. The UE have shown to be an unreliable partner.

    Replies: @sudden death

  518. @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Now the Chinese are saying somewhat, what the Japanese did are akin to the Shoah, so they must apologize as much as Germans did.
     
    I certainly don't think the Japanese should do that, and as I wrote in my previous comment, I don't think Japan committed genocide in the strict sense of the term.
    I don't have much of an opinion on the Nanjing massacre tbh. I think it's clear there was some kind of large-scale massacre (and I think even most Japanese would admit that), but beyond that it gets all pretty murky and hard to evaluate, especially if one doesn't know the relevant languages (and I obviously don't).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    There was the book The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II by Iris Chang (RIP) which had pointed out to have significant historical methodological issues. The highest claim for Nanjing Atrocity is 300,000 so you can judge for yourself the appropriateness of the comparison*.

    This is problematic because any questioning of the Nanjing Atrocity narrative can be associated with Holocaust denial, which as you know has legal ramifications in Germany. And comes at a time when China-Japan tensions are high where the Chinese perceives themselves as former victims, but are perceived by Japan (and the West) to be the aggressor.

    *This is in light of the fact that the Japanese had directly gone against Nazi requests regarding Jews–

    Shanghai was notable for a long period as the only place in the world that unconditionally offered refuge for Jews escaping from the Nazis.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Ghetto

    During World War II, despite being allied with Nazi Germany, the Empire of Japan along with Italy did not diplomatically support the Nazi invasion of Poland, and the Japanese actively supported the Polish government-in-exile.

    The Japanese agents also sheltered Polish-Jewish refugees fleeing occupation from both German and Soviet forces, though at first it was done without proper authorization from the Imperial government in Tokyo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan-Poland_relations

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I think the 300 000 dead figure for the Nanjing massacre is almost certainly exaggerated, and I have no doubt that the issue is sometimes used quite cynically against Japan. I don't envy Japan's position, it must be difficult to be confronted with demands for apologies by a state like the PRC which has a lot of dirty history of its own and is set to become the regional hegemon. The situation regarding Korea also isn't easy, given the nature of North Korea's regime. Hard to decide imo what Japan should do, some Western commentators are too sanctimonius with their view that the Japanese just don't want to face up to their crimes.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  519. @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Simply the timeline for this makes it drastically different in nature from Nazi atrocities, because we know the Nazi atrocities had certain premeditation.
     
    I don't know that's a bit of a strange distinction imo. Obviously the Japanese didn't commit a genocide in the narrow sense (no attempt to physically exterminate an entire people like Nazi Germany did with the Jews), but there were certainly quite a few premeditated atrocities (even if some things are probably exaggerated, like the claims for 300 000 dead at Nanjing). In Malaya and Singapore they systematically killed thousands of Chinese in 1942, to remove potential opposition to their rule. And of course there was quite substantial mortality among forced labourers (also among American pows, of whom almost a third died iirc, but this doesn't seem to be much emphasized in the US nowadays anymore, since the Pacific war with its overtones of a race war is too politically incorrect).

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I also don’t mean to single out Germans, but rather that Nazism, Bolshevism, Maoism were each new, radical forces.

    The Imperial Japan ruling class was simply their old regime tracing back to antiquity.

    This ruling class is still in power today, in the same way as if Göring’s grandson is the German Chancellor. This is so because that ruling class was protected by the US post-WWII against Soviets, and now against China.

  520. @Dmitry
    Nick Johnson's video about the trailer housing of South Carolina.

    Some don't look bad, but they say they depreciate as investments (like cars) and people often don't own the land, even if they own the trailer. This economics can be contributing to downward social mobility of working class Americans. Poorer people might only rent the trailer and the land.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_aix1rAuI8

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Is there a mobile home park equivalent in Russia? Where does the lower class Russian find shelter these days? I used to have a Russian boarder living with me from Pskov who would always try to tempt me to move to his town, tempting me with a decent house for a couple of thousand bucks? He drove a rig here for several years (as do many Russians and Ukrainians), made some money, went back and now lives in Crimea (he was ex-military). There are a lot of videos on YouTube showing abandoned and dilapidated towns in Ukraine. If you can stomach no electricity and no water, you could move in and live for free. There are probably similar ghost towns in Russia too?……….

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    ghost towns in Russia
     
    Alarge part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones.

    Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places.

    This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.

    A lot of the settlement in Russia had been in communist times, artificially encouraged and without diverse industry. After lifting limits of internal migration, it is inevitable that there will be some re-shifting of populations. However, the vast scale of population re-shifting and population flood of young people into the large cities is at crazy and dystopian scale, although profitable for the construction.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

  521. @sudden death
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do you all realize that those most vulnerable age groups are also most white now in USA and Europe, differently from WWI times, therefore such position "oh, it's just the elders" is nothing but just speeding up the overall white replacement rate?

    Asked this question other forum users several times before, never even once got the answer.

    Replies: @A123, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do you all realize that those most vulnerable age groups are also most white now in USA and Europe,

    The most vulnerable groups for preexisting conditions, especially undiagnosed or poorly treated, are non-white.

    Groups most likely for the trifecta of maximum risk: Age > 65 years, multiple preexisting conditions, & unvaccinated? Also non-white.

    The idea that the WUHAN-19 escape from a CCP virus lab is particularly damaging to Red States and white populations does not hold up very well. Even within Red States there are pockets of “Blue” populations, so overall state numbers are a poor indicator.

    I wish AE was still around. Trying to find a good source and visualization for this topic is not straightforward.
    ____

    Once you include government anti-science dogma, incompetence, and corruption… those forces point to “DNC Blue” as a source of fatalities.

    “Granny Killer” Cuomo forced WUHAN-19 infected patients into Nursing Homes thus maximizing body count. Compare that to DeSantis’s response in Florida. WUHAN-19 cases were explicitly ordered to other facilities and prohibited from Nursing Homes.

    DeSantis also took advantage of good science to roll out treatment facilities in his Red State. Not-The-President Biden’s response was trying to steal medical supplies from Florida to make Floridians sicker. This should have been a media firestorm, but the Lügenpresse covered up instead. DeSantis showed effective government by end running the current illegitimate, occupied White House regime. (1)(2)

    Florida’s DeSantis Responds to Biden Limiting Florida COVID Therapeutics – Announces Monoclonal Antibody Purchases Directly From Glaxo Smith Kline

    During a press conference earlier today, Governor DeSantis outlined the issues Florida is facing after the Biden administration instructed the federal offices of HHS to punish the successful therapy and recovery efforts of the sunshine state healthcare system. DeSantis outlines the purchase agreement that Biden intentionally violated and also the issues created by the federal government now blocking direct purchasing of treatment from the manufacturer.

    Additionally, DeSantis noted he has held meetings with GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) to purchase mAb shipments directly from the second source manufacturer in order to work around the roadblocks being presented by the Biden administration. DeSantis reaffirmed his commitment to stand in the way, and not allow Joe Biden to kill Americans just because he doesn’t like their politics.

    The anti-Science dogma of the SJW/DNC regarding WUHAN-19 virus makes the current situation worse.
    ___

    However, there is a silver lining. Americans are learning to point at Leftoids and laugh when they push fake science.

    Mythical Global Cooling / Warming / Change will be the next ludicrous fallacy to be wiped out. We have had “Only 10 Years to Save the Earth!” for 50+ years. Logic has come home to roost. If The Church of Al Gore (see [MORE]) was telling the truth in the 1970’s all human life is now extinct. There seem to be at least 8 billion problems with his Leftoid fear mongering…..

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    _________________________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/?s=Monoclonal

    (2) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/16/florida-desantis-responds-to-biden-limiting-florida-covid-therapeutics-announces-monoclonal-antibody-purchases-directly-from-glaxo-smith-kline/

    [MORE]

  522. @Mr. Hack
    @sudden death

    Looks like Ron Unz and Donald Trump both take a common sense approach to any vaxing controversy:


    Right now it looks like total American deaths for 2021 will be somewhat higher than they were in 2020, namely well over 500,000 higher than during previous years. So “excess deaths” during 2020 and 2021 will probably total 1.1 million or more. And as I mentioned in the article, The Economist has estimated total “excess deaths” worldwide at up to 20 million.

    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.

    Since the Democrats are 100% pro-vaxx, isn’t it a little odd that they’re trying to exterminate their own supporters while ensuring that the QAnon-type Republicans will be the main survivors? America’s ruling elites are concentrated in Wall Street, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and DC, and they’re almost 100% vaxxed. I guess they decided to all commit suicide. Our military is around 99+% vaxxed, so they’re also wiping out our military forces.

    Why do all leaders agree to impose the Covid boot-in-the-face? Because the vaccines will kill off a nice chunk of the over-population it will soon become obvious they cannot provide for.

    Okay, so the top leaders of America, China, Russia, Israel, Iran, and every other country in the world are secretly allied, working together in a diabolical plot (maybe organized by Bill Gates) to exterminate most of the world’s population. Hmmm…
     
    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/putin-and-xi-plot-their-swift-escape/

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @utu

    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.

    Israel Shamir? Gilad Atzmon? And Lindy Dingy was quite sick when he was in Albania iirc but his resentment of America helped him overcame that setback and he keeps singing the same tune.

    However Mike Whitney is going strong with his antivax and previously anti-lockdown disinformation. Must have gotten himself vaccinated or is in a deep lockdown. By enabling him Ron Unz apparently is admitting to the failure of his theory on Covid origin to gain traction and instead is opting for Anglin’s Plan B to indemnify China:

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/lifting-the-lockdown-easy-does-it/?showcomments#comment-3863472
    So I suspect that he realized the “China bioweapon” story was just too well entrenched among (gullible) right-wing activists to be easily dislodged with more plausible information when the topic really became hot in America around then. And he decided to launch a clever flank attack instead, and focus on the “It’s Just the Flu!!!” nonsense, which had also been floating around in fringe circles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC10VWDTzmU
    But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes you are
    You’re gonna have to serve somebody (serve somebody)
    Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
    But you’re gonna have to serve somebody

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @utu

    Why did you insert Dylan's song about the Lord here?

  523. @sudden death
    Just for the future reference - Lithuania, which does not have any long term contracts with Gazprom and was buying nat gas at spot market from all over the world, both from LNG import terminal and still existing land pipelines, had the lowest EU prices for household customers and not any different prices for non-household customers than other EU countries, at the first half of 2021.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Natural_gas_price_statistics

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Natural_gas_prices_for_non-household_consumers,_first_half_2021_v1.png

    Now it is needed to wait for the second half statistics and average yearly price, then the situation will be more clearly defined than manufactured hysteria during current several months.

    Replies: @A123

    My understanding is Lithuania hedged well. They have non-Russian, long term, fixed price contracts for delivery to their LNG port. If NatGas prices had gone down from the hedge level there would be screaming and possibly public unrest. Fortunately (for them), the price moved up from the hedge level, so they look really clever.

    Patience is required. The artificial shortage created by politics, for politicians will eventually end, causing prices to return to sustainable market levels. European politics will normalize or Germany will be 100% bypassed for energy distribution. Either way, we are talking about years not decades.
    ___

    I am not sure where you heard the phrase “buying like crazy” as that does not seem to fit the current scenario. Perhaps a single Lithuanian company (not the nation) was caught out?

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @A123

    We must still have in mind that Lithuania is very small market though overall - just about 2-3 billion cm3 a year ant that is roughly the capacity of our floating LNG import terminal. Mandatory fixed LNG contract is signed with Norwegian Equinor, but only for about 0,5 billion cm3, everything else is spot. However we also are using underground gas storage facility in neighbouring Latvia, so cheaply bought spot gas in spring or autumn can be used later in winter season.

  524. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    sheer hair-raising gruesomeness, I don’t think that the Germans can come anywhere close to.
     
    Agree with this (though the numerical scale was smaller).

    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War. You don't hear about those because those atrocities were committed by Chinese against other Chinese. The Chinese have hopefully, learned, not to conduct as a medieval army.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion#Fall_of_the_Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangzhou_massacre
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Changchun

    Again I'm not defending Japanese war crimes. But the narrative of "sadistic brutal Japanese" "poor helpless Chinese", without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.

    Replies: @songbird

    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War.

    Good point. I recall hearing about some gruesome incidents during the Boxer Rebellion, but I didn’t compare it because I thinking about it as being part of a different era. Also heard about some during the Cultural Revolution, but I blamed it on communists or propaganda. But I guess the Civil War (which I don’t much about) would make the comparison more contemporary, and possibly less ideological.

    without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.

    It is quite odd to see Japanese today. They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

    Personally, I think it had more to do with circumstances. Levels of development, geography, and the fact that Europeans undoubtedly were interacting with each other on a greater level for hundreds of years.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird


    They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.
     
    The last point is spot on, the politeness has never been separate from brutality and has been in fact a cover for it, which is best seen in the act of seppuku.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

     

    I wouldn't put it this way. Extreme savagery is the normal human condition; and there is significant element of that in East Asian culture. Japan lies on on perhaps the most natural disaster-prone terrain of any major country; given that they could lose loved ones at any moment, the Japanese just evolved to be especially stoic and reserved and sometimes fall back to the savagery.

    In addition, the Japanese banned the practices of extreme punishments and eunuchs around the same time as Europeans, far earlier than the Chinese who had it till the last day of Qing dynasty in 1912.

    Replies: @songbird

  525. @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Will steal one comment from ZH:


    Some people prefer freedom from being beholden to Russia over the love of money.
    This is what Russia ultimately fears anyhow. The erection of a robust multi-player bid market for the EU. It will take time to develop and other players are gradually making their way into what was once a pretty solid Russian monopoly market.
     
    In extra case ECB can print jus as easy as FED and European Commision backed near zero cost loans can be mandated for EU wide LNG import total capacity expansion which is achievable way sooner than new nuclear building.

    Some people in RF understand it quite well too, but luckily not those at the the helm now:

    https://el-murid.livejournal.com/4986863.html

    Replies: @Aedib

    Well, in any case, Russia should continue with its “go east” policy. The UE have shown to be an unreliable partner.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Wholeheartedly agree, as current relative shortage of gas in Asia is keeping prices there quite high most of the time, so additional supply will drive Asian spot prices&LNG demand down too, which is also good for European spot buyers. Besides RF cannot really dictate/influence/buy politicians regarding China or Japan, like they were used to do in fragmented Europe over gas dependency.

    Replies: @Aedib

  526. @utu
    @Mr. Hack


    Without naming names, I’ll say that several anti-vaxxers associated with this website have gotten very, very sick from Covid, and in one case nearly died. Meanwhile, neither I nor a single person I know has had any negative vaccine reactions.
     
    Israel Shamir? Gilad Atzmon? And Lindy Dingy was quite sick when he was in Albania iirc but his resentment of America helped him overcame that setback and he keeps singing the same tune.

    However Mike Whitney is going strong with his antivax and previously anti-lockdown disinformation. Must have gotten himself vaccinated or is in a deep lockdown. By enabling him Ron Unz apparently is admitting to the failure of his theory on Covid origin to gain traction and instead is opting for Anglin's Plan B to indemnify China:

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/lifting-the-lockdown-easy-does-it/?showcomments#comment-3863472
    So I suspect that he realized the “China bioweapon” story was just too well entrenched among (gullible) right-wing activists to be easily dislodged with more plausible information when the topic really became hot in America around then. And he decided to launch a clever flank attack instead, and focus on the “It’s Just the Flu!!!” nonsense, which had also been floating around in fringe circles.
     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC10VWDTzmU
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes you are
    You're gonna have to serve somebody (serve somebody)
    Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
    But you're gonna have to serve somebody
     

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Why did you insert Dylan’s song about the Lord here?

  527. @A123
    @sudden death

    My understanding is Lithuania hedged well. They have non-Russian, long term, fixed price contracts for delivery to their LNG port. If NatGas prices had gone down from the hedge level there would be screaming and possibly public unrest. Fortunately (for them), the price moved up from the hedge level, so they look really clever.

    Patience is required. The artificial shortage created by politics, for politicians will eventually end, causing prices to return to sustainable market levels. European politics will normalize or Germany will be 100% bypassed for energy distribution. Either way, we are talking about years not decades.
    ___

    I am not sure where you heard the phrase "buying like crazy" as that does not seem to fit the current scenario. Perhaps a single Lithuanian company (not the nation) was caught out?

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    Replies: @sudden death

    We must still have in mind that Lithuania is very small market though overall – just about 2-3 billion cm3 a year ant that is roughly the capacity of our floating LNG import terminal. Mandatory fixed LNG contract is signed with Norwegian Equinor, but only for about 0,5 billion cm3, everything else is spot. However we also are using underground gas storage facility in neighbouring Latvia, so cheaply bought spot gas in spring or autumn can be used later in winter season.

    • Thanks: A123
  528. @Aedib
    @sudden death

    Well, in any case, Russia should continue with its “go east” policy. The UE have shown to be an unreliable partner.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Wholeheartedly agree, as current relative shortage of gas in Asia is keeping prices there quite high most of the time, so additional supply will drive Asian spot prices&LNG demand down too, which is also good for European spot buyers. Besides RF cannot really dictate/influence/buy politicians regarding China or Japan, like they were used to do in fragmented Europe over gas dependency.

    • Replies: @Aedib
    @sudden death

    Gas prices are commoditizing (it will be like the soybean market). So, no one (being buyers or sellers) can dictate terms. And this is good for everyone. Let Annalena continue with her self worshiping words. She can’t go against market forces.

  529. @AP
    @songbird


    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don’t argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn’t help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.
     
    It is much simpler than that, at least from my perspective: the natives were simple and brutal savages, as our ancestors had once been. They needed to be tamed, taught, elevated, and improved (as our ancestors were), not destroyed. The Catholics - especially Spaniards - and Orthodox undertook this project and took serious efforts to tame and improve the natives, whereas the Anglo Calvinists in their heretical Old Testament-inspired zeal just destroyed them. They even destroyed the Cherokee who had become fairly civilized.

    Are these old crimes a legitimate excuse to destroy America today? Of course not. No more than they are a legitimate excuse for the Nazi treatment of the Slavs, as Goering famously attempted to do at his trial. This is not why I brought them up.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to “Hitler”predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European.
     
    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were. These were not naive barbarian brutes needing to be tamed, taught and civilized, but arguably the most cultured people in the world, behaving like savages. It is the definition of degeneracy, which is "having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type." The upper class Russians-turned-Bolsheviks were equally degenerate, of course. There is no "pride" in pointing that out.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    The Catholics – especially Spaniards

    Population density, ad nauseam. In fact, you can duplicate it with the ultimate ruthless warriors, Proto-Indo Europeans. They conquered Southern Europe, but there wasn’t the extreme population turnover there, nor in Southern India, where many Dravidians can still be seen today.

    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were.

    Oh, but I think you are wrong.

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable. Pointing to the ’30s and ’40s as the most degenerate time, doesn’t make any sense on numerous levels.

    I don’t think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained. Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place? It makes absolutely zero sense.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc. Alien foreigners on the dole in public housing. In your face gayness, or people being called racists, where you could have searched all day for a black thirty years ago.

    Your definition is unworkable. Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate? No, that will simply make them more degenerate.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @songbird


    Population density, ad nauseam.
     
    Patterns of colonization, which must have been discussed here ad nauseam, too.

    The Spanish colonization of the New World was carried out by soldiers and priests, with scarcely any women involved. Imagine that you are a Spanish soldier with low expectations of returning to Europe and at the end of a campaign to pacify the natives you are are awarded ownership of a vast tract of land, including all Indians inside it. What are you gonna do? Maintain celibacy on behalf of purity of blood? Many rank-and-file Spanish soldiers were probably not so pure to begin with, as they were typically recruited from the lower classes in Southern Spain, including common prisoners, not long after the Moors had been defeated.

    The colonization of North America by Protestants was totally different. From the Mayflower days it was done by groups of families living in close-knit communities.

    Perhaps these two different patterns of colonization revealed themselves a different propensity of these European groups to mix themselves with other races but I am not sure. In Latin American countries with important communities of non-Iberian Europeans, such as Chile or Argentina, I haven't seen any difference in the rates at which North and Southern Europeans marry non-Euros. I would actually say that nowadays mixed marriages are more common in Protestant countries, including the US, than in the South and East of Europe.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @AP
    @songbird


    The Catholics – especially Spaniards

    Population density, ad nauseam.
     
    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    "There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were."

    ...

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.
     
    The examples you cite consist of misuse of the clear and undeniable fact that Hitler and his followers were degenerates. Demagogues misuse all sorts of things to pursue their agenda. For example, they misuse compassion to push for the mutilation of "trans" children. Does that mean compassion is "sinful?"

    Among the many horrible effects of Nazi degeneracy and depravity is that it opened the door to such arguments by anti-Germans.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable.
     
    It's not my definition, it is the definition. I am not a post-modernist who plays with language.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/degenerate

    having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type

    having sunk to a lower and usually corrupt and vicious state

    The mid-century Nazis and upper class Russian Bolsheviks clearly meet these definitions.

    I don’t think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained.
     
    Of course. I was clear in my comment that Poland of that same era was not degenerate. Neither was any other country.

    Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place?
     
    Why do you think you have to be in a place to condemn evil and degeneracy? I was never in a gulag, nor a concentration camp. I was never in Jeffrey Dahmer's bedroom when he sodomized and murdered his victims.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc
     
    Those are also bad but not as bad as industrialized-scale mass murder of human beings. Do you agree?

    Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate?
     
    Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don't seem to be problem in Ireland.

    Replies: @songbird

  530. @sudden death
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do you all realize that those most vulnerable age groups are also most white now in USA and Europe, differently from WWI times, therefore such position "oh, it's just the elders" is nothing but just speeding up the overall white replacement rate?

    Asked this question other forum users several times before, never even once got the answer.

    Replies: @A123, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Mixing controversies together in building an agenda is not competent rhetoric.

    That is possibly true. Let’s say that it is. Why in the heck would you even bring it up? It’s like mixing watermelon and garlic toast. Let’s say I think they go together great. That is not something I would ever tell somebody else because they are going to agree .01% of the time and they are going to think I am kind of a weirdo over 90% of the time.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Mixing controversies together in building an agenda is not competent rhetoric.

    That is possibly true. Let’s say that it is. Why in the heck would you even bring it up?
     
    Idea about speeding of white replacement because of Covid is controversial to whom? For blacks&islamists maybe, but certainly should not be for white Christian populists and the very least so here at Unz.
  531. @sudden death
    @Aedib

    Wholeheartedly agree, as current relative shortage of gas in Asia is keeping prices there quite high most of the time, so additional supply will drive Asian spot prices&LNG demand down too, which is also good for European spot buyers. Besides RF cannot really dictate/influence/buy politicians regarding China or Japan, like they were used to do in fragmented Europe over gas dependency.

    Replies: @Aedib

    Gas prices are commoditizing (it will be like the soybean market). So, no one (being buyers or sellers) can dictate terms. And this is good for everyone. Let Annalena continue with her self worshiping words. She can’t go against market forces.

  532. Interesting to see Tina Wiik’s husband (or is it fiancé?), just looking at him, with no other information, would make me think that he was maybe, from Southern France or Spain.

  533. @AP
    @songbird


    In an American context, it is common to attribute an Original Sin to WASPs based on them being the founders, and once having had high status. The excuse is the Indians (or slaves), but it is never about the Indians. People don’t argue for more Indian sovereignty, but about how evil the WASPs were. And that doesn’t help the Injun, just gets him to beat his tomtom in the face of Nick Sandmann, and the media to pronounce a fatwā against Sandmann.
     
    It is much simpler than that, at least from my perspective: the natives were simple and brutal savages, as our ancestors had once been. They needed to be tamed, taught, elevated, and improved (as our ancestors were), not destroyed. The Catholics - especially Spaniards - and Orthodox undertook this project and took serious efforts to tame and improve the natives, whereas the Anglo Calvinists in their heretical Old Testament-inspired zeal just destroyed them. They even destroyed the Cherokee who had become fairly civilized.

    Are these old crimes a legitimate excuse to destroy America today? Of course not. No more than they are a legitimate excuse for the Nazi treatment of the Slavs, as Goering famously attempted to do at his trial. This is not why I brought them up.

    Contrast it with the present, when atheistic references to “Hitler”predominate. When people instantly feel a sinful pride in not being Hitler, in not being German, or in not being European.
     
    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were. These were not naive barbarian brutes needing to be tamed, taught and civilized, but arguably the most cultured people in the world, behaving like savages. It is the definition of degeneracy, which is "having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type." The upper class Russians-turned-Bolsheviks were equally degenerate, of course. There is no "pride" in pointing that out.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    I’d like to add this: Pat Buchanan was probably the only one who could have kept/brought us out of the Middle East. But he was relentlessly slandered by being called a “Nazi.” Would he have won otherwise, without this active opposition because he recognized the importance of closing the border? I don’t know.

    But it is at least glancingly possible that hundreds of thousands of people died because he was called a Nazi.

    Anyway, even outside of the Middle East, it seems obvious that Nazis have been used as a tool to greatly increase the potentiality for ethnic conflict, rather than minimize it. And I see no evidence that it has limited mortality. It didn’t prevent Rwanda. I’m not sure that it has prevented anything.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @songbird

    I don’t know.

    Seriously?

    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.

    I’m not sure that it has prevented anything.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as "normal" political animals.

    Replies: @songbird

  534. Should nationalists come up with their own version of Santa? Putting him in Europe proper, rather than the North Pole, which seems to be tied to the whole globe? Maybe, Lapland, where I think he is in Finland? But then again the Sami seem really woke, and are playing at being indigenous.

    Probably the key to going Amish and developing your own high-natalist culture is reworking Christmas. Or that should be the starting point, at least.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Just throw the whole "Masonic" consumerist image of Xmas without Christ out of the window, if you go the religious route.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The Dutch have the best hydraulic engineering and the best santa.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Sintenpiet.jpg/1200px-Sintenpiet.jpg

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

  535. @A123
    @Beckow


    This is what makes it into a comedy, the insane level of cognitive dissonance. I have heard it justified by “well, Russians are smart enough not to take our public statements seriously“. Or even: “who me? nooo, it is the other guys who say it, nobody takes them seriously.”
     
    There really are two levels of dialogue for "internal" & "external" consumption.

    The best example of this is the recent, obviously fake, controversy over WWII property claims. Polish, Israeli, and American politicians said things that were self-evidently clear for "internal" consumption only. Tiny, near insignificant, numbers of lobotomites misread the situation. Other more rational forces used the opening for their own "internal only" communications.

    In the real world, Israeli-Polish relations remained so rock solid they are cooperating on a military co-development project for an equivalent to the Russian Pantsir. If anyone serious in either Poland or Israel had actually been worked up over decades old claims, such cooperation would be impossible. It was a shadow play of form, absent of substance.
    ____

    How this concept ties to current Russia relations is problematic. There is no such thing as a "European" position. It is actually a much larger set of realtionships with smaller groups & individual countries.

    The new German coalition does seem genuinely determined to offend everyone. Most European nations oppose this sort of insanity. However, the number of nations dependant on Frankfurt Brussels financing makes visible opposition to official German Reich EU policy politically challenging.

    One has to believe there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged. For every Poland or Hungary in open resistance to Brussels there are several other nations in flux or limited resistance. The incoherence of the EU will eventual bring its end (or much more unlikely transformation). The key questions are:

    -- When will the current EU/EZ failure collapse?
    -- What will come after it (other than burning Brussels to the ground)?

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    _____________________

    P.S. Is using using the burning remains of Brussels to roast marshmallows and make Smores permitted holiday behaviour? There are some rules, and even worse social conventions, that elude me.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged.

    True, and that keeps the situation from getting worse. The problem is that there is such a thing as public shared space and over the last few years this space has been taken over by raving madmen, fanatics, bitter morons looking for revenge, and career-oriented sycophants. They set the tone in Brussels. The sycophants are most dangerous – their lack of convictions and short-term outlook drives the escalation.

    EU is brain-dead, but still a good source of plunder. The current EU setup cannot last, expanding or deepening EU is no longer possible. Brussels exists suspended in the air, lurching in every direction, arguing that any alternative is worse. That last argument is partially true, the fear of instability keeps a lid on any changes. But some dramatic changes are required.

    Cul-de-sacs are resolved by bypassing them – irrelevance cannot be fought, it has to be ignored. Poland-Hungary are trying the bypass, but it leaves them exposed to the cul-de-sac rules. All grandiose schemes to create a “united Europe” have always collapsed in the past – there were more of them than people admit. What we have today is not that different than what Napoleon or Hitler created (and others), including the obsessive ideological conformism and a bizarre desire to attack Russia (to get resources?). It used to be bloody, today it is just weird. At least so far.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow

    I largely concur with your view of the situation.



    there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged.
     
    The problem is that there is such a thing as public shared space and over the last few years this space has been taken over by raving madmen, fanatics, bitter morons looking for revenge, and career-oriented sycophants. They set the tone in Brussels.
     
    Why is Russia helping the Berlin-Brussels Axis?

    -- The raving madmen in Brussels are against Christian Populism, notably in Poland.
    -- The Brussels sycophants are against Russia.

    Would it not make much more sense for Christian Russia to support Christian Poland? Is "The Putin Plan" backing SJW authoritarian Leftoids as an effort to blow up the EU sooner rather than later?

    Cul-de-sacs are resolved by bypassing them – irrelevance cannot be fought, it has to be ignored. Poland-Hungary are trying the bypass, but it leaves them exposed to the cul-de-sac rules.
     
    The EU treaty contains sovereignty provisions that make cul-de-sac rules unenforceable. All of the serious penalties require unanimous approval. As long as Poland & Hungary back each other, all Brussels can do is scream ineffectively. If German bureaucrats use Brussels to impose fines, Poland will extract that value from German holdings in Poland.

    Fun times are headed for the border when V4 laws mandate autos must have petrol engines while German laws mandate autos may not have petrol engines. (1)

    The current EU setup cannot last, expanding or deepening EU is no longer possible. ... the fear of instability keeps a lid on any changes. But some dramatic changes are required.
     
    To me, it is far too late for "change". The EU/EZ needs an orderly end. Killing off the € currency so that investment and trade works properly once again will be a huge win for everyone. Negative interest rates are a disaster.

    Smaller subsets of countries will have coordination deals. However every nation now wants to avoid the issues with unaccountable bureaucracy that plague Brussels.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://rmx.news/czech-republic/banning-cars-with-combustion-engines-is-unacceptable-says-new-czech-pm/

    Replies: @Beckow

  536. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War.
     
    Good point. I recall hearing about some gruesome incidents during the Boxer Rebellion, but I didn't compare it because I thinking about it as being part of a different era. Also heard about some during the Cultural Revolution, but I blamed it on communists or propaganda. But I guess the Civil War (which I don't much about) would make the comparison more contemporary, and possibly less ideological.

    without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.
     
    It is quite odd to see Japanese today. They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

    Personally, I think it had more to do with circumstances. Levels of development, geography, and the fact that Europeans undoubtedly were interacting with each other on a greater level for hundreds of years.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

    The last point is spot on, the politeness has never been separate from brutality and has been in fact a cover for it, which is best seen in the act of seppuku.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Yellowface Anon

    Considering what the Qing did to captured Taiping rebels (including Hong Xiuquan's 14 yr old son) and the going-ons during Cultural Revolution, this is just pot calling the kettle black. If anything the Chinese form of cruelty is more unsettling.

    Also, depiction of seppuku in Western film over-romanticizes Japanese militarism. Tojo for instance, rather than going out the manly samurai way, tried to shoot himself in the heart and failed ignominiously.

  537. @songbird
    Should nationalists come up with their own version of Santa? Putting him in Europe proper, rather than the North Pole, which seems to be tied to the whole globe? Maybe, Lapland, where I think he is in Finland? But then again the Sami seem really woke, and are playing at being indigenous.

    Probably the key to going Amish and developing your own high-natalist culture is reworking Christmas. Or that should be the starting point, at least.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Just throw the whole “Masonic” consumerist image of Xmas without Christ out of the window, if you go the religious route.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    Just throw the whole “Masonic” consumerist image of Xmas without Christ out of the window, if you go the religious route.
     
    It is tricky. You want enough mimetic power to appeal to a strong, cohesive core that will reproduce geometrically, but, if you go too spiritual, there is a danger of becoming like the Puritans and dropping the useful parts of it. Of course, you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials - now reconceived for a nationalist audience.

    How would a Socialist North Japan have countered Takarazuka theater?
     
    Don't know enough about them, but, personally speaking, I like the idea of sending them to the country or region with the weakest grip strength on the theory that it would help them balance things out.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  538. @songbird
    @AP

    I'd like to add this: Pat Buchanan was probably the only one who could have kept/brought us out of the Middle East. But he was relentlessly slandered by being called a "Nazi." Would he have won otherwise, without this active opposition because he recognized the importance of closing the border? I don't know.

    But it is at least glancingly possible that hundreds of thousands of people died because he was called a Nazi.

    Anyway, even outside of the Middle East, it seems obvious that Nazis have been used as a tool to greatly increase the potentiality for ethnic conflict, rather than minimize it. And I see no evidence that it has limited mortality. It didn't prevent Rwanda. I'm not sure that it has prevented anything.

    Replies: @iffen

    I don’t know.

    Seriously?

    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.

    I’m not sure that it has prevented anything.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as “normal” political animals.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @iffen


    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.
     
    You think he cost Gore votes? Was Bush's strawman? Say, wuht? The people I knew who hated Pat were all Gore-supporters.

    Pat Buchanan was against Desert Storm. Gore wasn't, and he was super-corrupt. If you think he wouldn't have invaded Iraq because he made a speech against it, well, I just think he wasn't being heavily lobbied because he was seen as loser, with no power prospects. In that situation, why erode your credibility, if you are not being paid for it? They might have called him up and said, "Hey, you are not needed. You can go the other way on this. In fact please do, it will help us rope in conservatives."

    Though, Buchanan probably wouldn't have won. They probably would have still denounced him, on feminist grounds, or for fiscal policy.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as “normal” political animals.
     
    No, actually, it allows a weakly nationalist, half-cucked, blank-slatist party like AfD to be demonized (literally demonized, as in the media depicts them with horns), and it allows state espionage resources to be used against them and their supporters. Do you understand what the ethnic cohort structure of Western Europe looks like now, how much Merkel's move nudged it in a single year? Unbelievable massive numbers, if you consider age cohort. It is the just seed of terrible future conflicts. I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes. In will undoubtedly result in future wars.

    And you are still on the "let's continue to fight pretend Nazis train"... You are like Don Quixote, if he were a pyromaniac.

    Replies: @German_reader, @iffen

  539. How would a Socialist North Japan have countered Takarazuka theater? (female actresses crossdressing counts as proto-woke)

  540. @iffen
    @songbird

    I don’t know.

    Seriously?

    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.

    I’m not sure that it has prevented anything.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as "normal" political animals.

    Replies: @songbird

    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.

    You think he cost Gore votes? Was Bush’s strawman? Say, wuht? The people I knew who hated Pat were all Gore-supporters.

    Pat Buchanan was against Desert Storm. Gore wasn’t, and he was super-corrupt. If you think he wouldn’t have invaded Iraq because he made a speech against it, well, I just think he wasn’t being heavily lobbied because he was seen as loser, with no power prospects. In that situation, why erode your credibility, if you are not being paid for it? They might have called him up and said, “Hey, you are not needed. You can go the other way on this. In fact please do, it will help us rope in conservatives.”

    Though, Buchanan probably wouldn’t have won. They probably would have still denounced him, on feminist grounds, or for fiscal policy.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as “normal” political animals.

    No, actually, it allows a weakly nationalist, half-cucked, blank-slatist party like AfD to be demonized (literally demonized, as in the media depicts them with horns), and it allows state espionage resources to be used against them and their supporters. Do you understand what the ethnic cohort structure of Western Europe looks like now, how much Merkel’s move nudged it in a single year? Unbelievable massive numbers, if you consider age cohort. It is the just seed of terrible future conflicts. I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes. In will undoubtedly result in future wars.

    And you are still on the “let’s continue to fight pretend Nazis train”… You are like Don Quixote, if he were a pyromaniac.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes.
     
    Oh, it has, in quite a few, lots of horror cases committed by people who've come since 2014/15 as refugees (though technically it's of course true that the vast majority of refugees don't commit such crimes). But these cases are hidden away in local newspapers and don't get the kind of national airplay equivalent crimes by neo-Nazis certainly would. And if some incident is too large to completely ignore by national media (like the Somali who stabbed three women to death in Würzburg this summer), the media knows immediately that it's due to psychological trauma, so nothing to see here, just some tragedy without political implications.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @iffen
    @songbird

    You think he cost Gore votes?


    The Butterfly Did It: The Aberrant Vote for Buchanan in Palm Beach County, Florida
     
    https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/butterfly-did-it-aberrant-vote-buchanan-palm-beach-county-florida

    Replies: @songbird

  541. German_reader says:
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    There was the book The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II by Iris Chang (RIP) which had pointed out to have significant historical methodological issues. The highest claim for Nanjing Atrocity is 300,000 so you can judge for yourself the appropriateness of the comparison*.

    This is problematic because any questioning of the Nanjing Atrocity narrative can be associated with Holocaust denial, which as you know has legal ramifications in Germany. And comes at a time when China-Japan tensions are high where the Chinese perceives themselves as former victims, but are perceived by Japan (and the West) to be the aggressor.

    *This is in light of the fact that the Japanese had directly gone against Nazi requests regarding Jews--


    Shanghai was notable for a long period as the only place in the world that unconditionally offered refuge for Jews escaping from the Nazis.[1]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Ghetto

    During World War II, despite being allied with Nazi Germany, the Empire of Japan along with Italy did not diplomatically support the Nazi invasion of Poland, and the Japanese actively supported the Polish government-in-exile.

    The Japanese agents also sheltered Polish-Jewish refugees fleeing occupation from both German and Soviet forces, though at first it was done without proper authorization from the Imperial government in Tokyo.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan-Poland_relations

    Replies: @German_reader

    I think the 300 000 dead figure for the Nanjing massacre is almost certainly exaggerated, and I have no doubt that the issue is sometimes used quite cynically against Japan. I don’t envy Japan’s position, it must be difficult to be confronted with demands for apologies by a state like the PRC which has a lot of dirty history of its own and is set to become the regional hegemon. The situation regarding Korea also isn’t easy, given the nature of North Korea’s regime. Hard to decide imo what Japan should do, some Western commentators are too sanctimonius with their view that the Japanese just don’t want to face up to their crimes.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    There are aspects of Chinese history that I won't defend. I consider Taiping Rebellion and Mao's excesses to be greater disasters than the war with Japan and anything done by Western Imperialists.

    That said, I hope you can see that there's a directly parallel of atrocity propaganda used against Japan, with what is now being used against PRC. Port Arthur massacre following Russo-Japanese War is an first example of American media arbitrarily adding some zeros to death figures:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(China)

    ...this basically what is now done with Xinjiang. And Taiwan further ridiculous since it was territory Imperial Japan wrested from Imperial China, agreed to be returned to ROC at Potsdam Declaration.

    *The Japanese Left have probably the appropriate balance between showing contrition and avoidance of cultural self-flagellation. If I'm correct that was similar to the position of DDR

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  542. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @iffen


    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.
     
    You think he cost Gore votes? Was Bush's strawman? Say, wuht? The people I knew who hated Pat were all Gore-supporters.

    Pat Buchanan was against Desert Storm. Gore wasn't, and he was super-corrupt. If you think he wouldn't have invaded Iraq because he made a speech against it, well, I just think he wasn't being heavily lobbied because he was seen as loser, with no power prospects. In that situation, why erode your credibility, if you are not being paid for it? They might have called him up and said, "Hey, you are not needed. You can go the other way on this. In fact please do, it will help us rope in conservatives."

    Though, Buchanan probably wouldn't have won. They probably would have still denounced him, on feminist grounds, or for fiscal policy.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as “normal” political animals.
     
    No, actually, it allows a weakly nationalist, half-cucked, blank-slatist party like AfD to be demonized (literally demonized, as in the media depicts them with horns), and it allows state espionage resources to be used against them and their supporters. Do you understand what the ethnic cohort structure of Western Europe looks like now, how much Merkel's move nudged it in a single year? Unbelievable massive numbers, if you consider age cohort. It is the just seed of terrible future conflicts. I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes. In will undoubtedly result in future wars.

    And you are still on the "let's continue to fight pretend Nazis train"... You are like Don Quixote, if he were a pyromaniac.

    Replies: @German_reader, @iffen

    I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes.

    Oh, it has, in quite a few, lots of horror cases committed by people who’ve come since 2014/15 as refugees (though technically it’s of course true that the vast majority of refugees don’t commit such crimes). But these cases are hidden away in local newspapers and don’t get the kind of national airplay equivalent crimes by neo-Nazis certainly would. And if some incident is too large to completely ignore by national media (like the Somali who stabbed three women to death in Würzburg this summer), the media knows immediately that it’s due to psychological trauma, so nothing to see here, just some tragedy without political implications.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @iffen
    @German_reader

    don’t get the kind of national airplay equivalent crimes by neo-Nazis certainly would.

    In your estimation, just how large is this neo-Nazi faction in Germany?

    Replies: @German_reader

  543. @songbird
    @iffen


    The only thing Buchanan accomplished was ensuring that Bush became President instead of Gore.
     
    You think he cost Gore votes? Was Bush's strawman? Say, wuht? The people I knew who hated Pat were all Gore-supporters.

    Pat Buchanan was against Desert Storm. Gore wasn't, and he was super-corrupt. If you think he wouldn't have invaded Iraq because he made a speech against it, well, I just think he wasn't being heavily lobbied because he was seen as loser, with no power prospects. In that situation, why erode your credibility, if you are not being paid for it? They might have called him up and said, "Hey, you are not needed. You can go the other way on this. In fact please do, it will help us rope in conservatives."

    Though, Buchanan probably wouldn't have won. They probably would have still denounced him, on feminist grounds, or for fiscal policy.

    It prevents Nazis from passing as “normal” political animals.
     
    No, actually, it allows a weakly nationalist, half-cucked, blank-slatist party like AfD to be demonized (literally demonized, as in the media depicts them with horns), and it allows state espionage resources to be used against them and their supporters. Do you understand what the ethnic cohort structure of Western Europe looks like now, how much Merkel's move nudged it in a single year? Unbelievable massive numbers, if you consider age cohort. It is the just seed of terrible future conflicts. I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes. In will undoubtedly result in future wars.

    And you are still on the "let's continue to fight pretend Nazis train"... You are like Don Quixote, if he were a pyromaniac.

    Replies: @German_reader, @iffen

    You think he cost Gore votes?

    The Butterfly Did It: The Aberrant Vote for Buchanan in Palm Beach County, Florida

    https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/butterfly-did-it-aberrant-vote-buchanan-palm-beach-county-florida

    • Replies: @songbird
    @iffen

    Interesting, don't believe I heard him evoked before on this. TBH, I never could get very interested in the controversy of hanging chads, etc. As I didn't like Gore or Bush. Never used one of those machines myself, but I can still remember seeing them used, when I was a kid. Nobody seemed to be having a problem with it, back then.

    The one interesting point of Bush, IMO, which possibly made him different from Gore was his support for tax funding for religious NGOs. (Not that I am in favor of this, I think such groups are often doing evil). But what I thought was curious about it was how it appealed to Evangelicals and even to Christian Africans I knew, whose instinct was to hate Bush, for the standard reasons of seeing him as being racist or something.

    Replies: @iffen

  544. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Just throw the whole "Masonic" consumerist image of Xmas without Christ out of the window, if you go the religious route.

    Replies: @songbird

    Just throw the whole “Masonic” consumerist image of Xmas without Christ out of the window, if you go the religious route.

    It is tricky. You want enough mimetic power to appeal to a strong, cohesive core that will reproduce geometrically, but, if you go too spiritual, there is a danger of becoming like the Puritans and dropping the useful parts of it. Of course, you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials – now reconceived for a nationalist audience.

    How would a Socialist North Japan have countered Takarazuka theater?

    Don’t know enough about them, but, personally speaking, I like the idea of sending them to the country or region with the weakest grip strength on the theory that it would help them balance things out.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird


    you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials – now reconceived for a nationalist audience.
     
    The feasting and festivity is actually good when separated from the consumer materialism which has come to define Christmas. That is where the balance provided by Advent comes in. Several weeks of fasting/ spiritual preparation actually go a long way toward making the festive aspects an authentic celebration.

    Of course in our modern age we are drowned by material excess so something like Christmas is just a spike in a saturated background. This is not very healthy either physically or psychologically so for a celebration to have meaning a balance must be established, with one extreme countered by another.

    I don't think that a nationalist centered Christmas celebration is really what is needed. Nationalism just seems to me yet another product of modern liberalism and it's worship of the totalizing State. To me what is needed is a wider cultural reality which is rooted in deeper things than the State, such as religion, family, the land and the continuity of ancestors to future generations.

    Of course, the West has completely discarded such things and it will be a very long time before they ever come back. What takes a thousand years to build can be destroyed in a generation.

    In the meantime, I can try to keep a Christmas tradition which is entirely counter(modern)cultural. There are a great number of traditions surrounded Advent and Christmas which are well worth researching for those who are dissatisfied with the current American practices.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

  545. @Beckow
    @A123


    ...there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged.
     
    True, and that keeps the situation from getting worse. The problem is that there is such a thing as public shared space and over the last few years this space has been taken over by raving madmen, fanatics, bitter morons looking for revenge, and career-oriented sycophants. They set the tone in Brussels. The sycophants are most dangerous - their lack of convictions and short-term outlook drives the escalation.

    EU is brain-dead, but still a good source of plunder. The current EU setup cannot last, expanding or deepening EU is no longer possible. Brussels exists suspended in the air, lurching in every direction, arguing that any alternative is worse. That last argument is partially true, the fear of instability keeps a lid on any changes. But some dramatic changes are required.

    Cul-de-sacs are resolved by bypassing them - irrelevance cannot be fought, it has to be ignored. Poland-Hungary are trying the bypass, but it leaves them exposed to the cul-de-sac rules. All grandiose schemes to create a "united Europe" have always collapsed in the past - there were more of them than people admit. What we have today is not that different than what Napoleon or Hitler created (and others), including the obsessive ideological conformism and a bizarre desire to attack Russia (to get resources?). It used to be bloody, today it is just weird. At least so far.

    Replies: @A123

    I largely concur with your view of the situation.

    there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged.

    The problem is that there is such a thing as public shared space and over the last few years this space has been taken over by raving madmen, fanatics, bitter morons looking for revenge, and career-oriented sycophants. They set the tone in Brussels.

    Why is Russia helping the Berlin-Brussels Axis?

    — The raving madmen in Brussels are against Christian Populism, notably in Poland.
    — The Brussels sycophants are against Russia.

    Would it not make much more sense for Christian Russia to support Christian Poland? Is “The Putin Plan” backing SJW authoritarian Leftoids as an effort to blow up the EU sooner rather than later?

    Cul-de-sacs are resolved by bypassing them – irrelevance cannot be fought, it has to be ignored. Poland-Hungary are trying the bypass, but it leaves them exposed to the cul-de-sac rules.

    The EU treaty contains sovereignty provisions that make cul-de-sac rules unenforceable. All of the serious penalties require unanimous approval. As long as Poland & Hungary back each other, all Brussels can do is scream ineffectively. If German bureaucrats use Brussels to impose fines, Poland will extract that value from German holdings in Poland.

    Fun times are headed for the border when V4 laws mandate autos must have petrol engines while German laws mandate autos may not have petrol engines. (1)

    The current EU setup cannot last, expanding or deepening EU is no longer possible. … the fear of instability keeps a lid on any changes. But some dramatic changes are required.

    To me, it is far too late for “change”. The EU/EZ needs an orderly end. Killing off the € currency so that investment and trade works properly once again will be a huge win for everyone. Negative interest rates are a disaster.

    Smaller subsets of countries will have coordination deals. However every nation now wants to avoid the issues with unaccountable bureaucracy that plague Brussels.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://rmx.news/czech-republic/banning-cars-with-combustion-engines-is-unacceptable-says-new-czech-pm/

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123


    ...Why is Russia helping the Berlin-Brussels Axis?
     
    Because they are less hostile, and because from business viewpoint there is more (a lot more) to be earned. Poland has been irredeemably hostile to Russia, almost pathologically. It goes beyond Warsaw government, the people in general are beyond salvation. They are more conservative Christian, but that doesn't keep them from itching to attack Russia, or from allowing others (Nato) to do it by using Poland.

    ...serious penalties require unanimous approval. As long as Poland & Hungary back each other, all Brussels can do is scream ineffectively...
     
    Ideally. But that is not the way the Western institutions work - they use rules when it suits them, drop them when it doesn't. If you don't get this basic modus operandi of the West, you will always be surprised (and taken advantage of). Western rules-based system is a fiction, a tool to get what cannot be gotten by force, or by work.

    There is absolutely no point having any agreements with the West - they will not obey by it unless forced. That means the others may as well only do the force part. If Brussels wants to squeeze Poland-Hungary, they will - they are in charge deciding what the rules say, how to apply them. V4 is not. V4 is only a subject to these rules.

    I agree that EU can't change, most likely future will be as some sort of a regional super-UN useless organization. To get rid euro will be very difficult - currencies once introduced only disappear when everything changes, will it?

  546. @German_reader
    @songbird


    I am sure it has already resulted in deaths and rapes.
     
    Oh, it has, in quite a few, lots of horror cases committed by people who've come since 2014/15 as refugees (though technically it's of course true that the vast majority of refugees don't commit such crimes). But these cases are hidden away in local newspapers and don't get the kind of national airplay equivalent crimes by neo-Nazis certainly would. And if some incident is too large to completely ignore by national media (like the Somali who stabbed three women to death in Würzburg this summer), the media knows immediately that it's due to psychological trauma, so nothing to see here, just some tragedy without political implications.

    Replies: @iffen

    don’t get the kind of national airplay equivalent crimes by neo-Nazis certainly would.

    In your estimation, just how large is this neo-Nazi faction in Germany?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @iffen

    Oh, certainly hundreds of thousands at least, they're everywhere, especially in the police and the army. I really hope our new government will finally take appropriate steps to clear out this mess and protect us from the brown menace!

    (seriusly, htf should I know? I suppose there are a few thousand genuine hardcore Nazis in Germany today, and yes, some of them would certainly be willing to commit murders, as past political violence by neo-Nazis clearly indicates. So the problem isn't entirely fictional, just massively exaggerated by the establishment imo. The violent Skinhead culture and the like has declined a lot since the 1990s though).

    Replies: @iffen

  547. @iffen
    @songbird

    You think he cost Gore votes?


    The Butterfly Did It: The Aberrant Vote for Buchanan in Palm Beach County, Florida
     
    https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/butterfly-did-it-aberrant-vote-buchanan-palm-beach-county-florida

    Replies: @songbird

    Interesting, don’t believe I heard him evoked before on this. TBH, I never could get very interested in the controversy of hanging chads, etc. As I didn’t like Gore or Bush. Never used one of those machines myself, but I can still remember seeing them used, when I was a kid. Nobody seemed to be having a problem with it, back then.

    The one interesting point of Bush, IMO, which possibly made him different from Gore was his support for tax funding for religious NGOs. (Not that I am in favor of this, I think such groups are often doing evil). But what I thought was curious about it was how it appealed to Evangelicals and even to Christian Africans I knew, whose instinct was to hate Bush, for the standard reasons of seeing him as being racist or something.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @songbird

    As I didn’t like Gore or Bush.

    It was the first presidential election in which I did not cast a vote because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Gore. It troubles me to this day in that I think that I somehow dishonored my ancestors who died procuring for ordinary people the right to vote.

    I never could get very interested in the controversy of hanging chads, etc.

    It is interesting because a "political" Supreme Court designated Bush to be President. Later analyses showed that Gore was the choice of Florida voters.

  548. Would it not make much more sense for Christian Russia to support Christian Poland?

    RF support is already there in fact – did everything they could do for Poland, which is currently enjoying 2x lower electricity prices than Germany or Serbia 😉

  549. German_reader says:
    @iffen
    @German_reader

    don’t get the kind of national airplay equivalent crimes by neo-Nazis certainly would.

    In your estimation, just how large is this neo-Nazi faction in Germany?

    Replies: @German_reader

    Oh, certainly hundreds of thousands at least, they’re everywhere, especially in the police and the army. I really hope our new government will finally take appropriate steps to clear out this mess and protect us from the brown menace!

    (seriusly, htf should I know? I suppose there are a few thousand genuine hardcore Nazis in Germany today, and yes, some of them would certainly be willing to commit murders, as past political violence by neo-Nazis clearly indicates. So the problem isn’t entirely fictional, just massively exaggerated by the establishment imo. The violent Skinhead culture and the like has declined a lot since the 1990s though).

    • Replies: @iffen
    @German_reader

    (seriusly, htf should I know?

    I just thought that you would have your ear to ground on the political scene in Germany and that you would be a reliable informant for my benefit. I don't know very much about the political situation in Europe and don't rely on "MSM" to inform me.

    As some sort of analogy, I can tell you that the "insurrection" in the U. S. is pure political fabrication for the benefit of keeping the SJW troopers on alert and active. I'm not sure that someone at a distance could "know" this for sure.

    Replies: @German_reader

  550. @A123
    @Beckow

    I largely concur with your view of the situation.



    there is a significant amount of quiet, back channel contact between Russia and sane European nations that cannot be publicly acknowledged.
     
    The problem is that there is such a thing as public shared space and over the last few years this space has been taken over by raving madmen, fanatics, bitter morons looking for revenge, and career-oriented sycophants. They set the tone in Brussels.
     
    Why is Russia helping the Berlin-Brussels Axis?

    -- The raving madmen in Brussels are against Christian Populism, notably in Poland.
    -- The Brussels sycophants are against Russia.

    Would it not make much more sense for Christian Russia to support Christian Poland? Is "The Putin Plan" backing SJW authoritarian Leftoids as an effort to blow up the EU sooner rather than later?

    Cul-de-sacs are resolved by bypassing them – irrelevance cannot be fought, it has to be ignored. Poland-Hungary are trying the bypass, but it leaves them exposed to the cul-de-sac rules.
     
    The EU treaty contains sovereignty provisions that make cul-de-sac rules unenforceable. All of the serious penalties require unanimous approval. As long as Poland & Hungary back each other, all Brussels can do is scream ineffectively. If German bureaucrats use Brussels to impose fines, Poland will extract that value from German holdings in Poland.

    Fun times are headed for the border when V4 laws mandate autos must have petrol engines while German laws mandate autos may not have petrol engines. (1)

    The current EU setup cannot last, expanding or deepening EU is no longer possible. ... the fear of instability keeps a lid on any changes. But some dramatic changes are required.
     
    To me, it is far too late for "change". The EU/EZ needs an orderly end. Killing off the € currency so that investment and trade works properly once again will be a huge win for everyone. Negative interest rates are a disaster.

    Smaller subsets of countries will have coordination deals. However every nation now wants to avoid the issues with unaccountable bureaucracy that plague Brussels.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://rmx.news/czech-republic/banning-cars-with-combustion-engines-is-unacceptable-says-new-czech-pm/

    Replies: @Beckow

    …Why is Russia helping the Berlin-Brussels Axis?

    Because they are less hostile, and because from business viewpoint there is more (a lot more) to be earned. Poland has been irredeemably hostile to Russia, almost pathologically. It goes beyond Warsaw government, the people in general are beyond salvation. They are more conservative Christian, but that doesn’t keep them from itching to attack Russia, or from allowing others (Nato) to do it by using Poland.

    …serious penalties require unanimous approval. As long as Poland & Hungary back each other, all Brussels can do is scream ineffectively…

    Ideally. But that is not the way the Western institutions work – they use rules when it suits them, drop them when it doesn’t. If you don’t get this basic modus operandi of the West, you will always be surprised (and taken advantage of). Western rules-based system is a fiction, a tool to get what cannot be gotten by force, or by work.

    There is absolutely no point having any agreements with the West – they will not obey by it unless forced. That means the others may as well only do the force part. If Brussels wants to squeeze Poland-Hungary, they will – they are in charge deciding what the rules say, how to apply them. V4 is not. V4 is only a subject to these rules.

    I agree that EU can’t change, most likely future will be as some sort of a regional super-UN useless organization. To get rid euro will be very difficult – currencies once introduced only disappear when everything changes, will it?

    • Agree: sher singh
  551. I have a totally unrelated question but how does unz.com know that I’m ‘anaccount’ even though I always connect to the site via nordvpn? Is this done via browser cache?

  552. @German_reader
    @iffen

    Oh, certainly hundreds of thousands at least, they're everywhere, especially in the police and the army. I really hope our new government will finally take appropriate steps to clear out this mess and protect us from the brown menace!

    (seriusly, htf should I know? I suppose there are a few thousand genuine hardcore Nazis in Germany today, and yes, some of them would certainly be willing to commit murders, as past political violence by neo-Nazis clearly indicates. So the problem isn't entirely fictional, just massively exaggerated by the establishment imo. The violent Skinhead culture and the like has declined a lot since the 1990s though).

    Replies: @iffen

    (seriusly, htf should I know?

    I just thought that you would have your ear to ground on the political scene in Germany and that you would be a reliable informant for my benefit. I don’t know very much about the political situation in Europe and don’t rely on “MSM” to inform me.

    As some sort of analogy, I can tell you that the “insurrection” in the U. S. is pure political fabrication for the benefit of keeping the SJW troopers on alert and active. I’m not sure that someone at a distance could “know” this for sure.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @iffen

    Well, sorry, I thought you were trolling a bit again.
    But it's pretty much like I wrote in my previous comment. Genuine neo-Nazis do exist in Germany (just like I suppose there still are some genuine Klansmen or similar groups in the US), maybe a few ten thousand (officially there are about 30 000 far right extremists in Germany, whatever that means), with a violence-prone core of a few thousand. However, these genuine Nazi types are of course a fairly marginal phenomenon, and the establishment has a much more wide-ranging definition of far right extremism (basically you're not supposed to object to their immigration policy at all), and is steadily increasing repression against dissent, with all manner of absurd witch hunts. The supposed threat by the far right is also used as a pretext to shower "civil society" antifa and antiracist groups with millions of taxpayers' money, so they can promote their agenda basically with state support. imo the dynamics are similar to those in the US. But I'm a biased observer of course.

  553. @songbird
    Should nationalists come up with their own version of Santa? Putting him in Europe proper, rather than the North Pole, which seems to be tied to the whole globe? Maybe, Lapland, where I think he is in Finland? But then again the Sami seem really woke, and are playing at being indigenous.

    Probably the key to going Amish and developing your own high-natalist culture is reworking Christmas. Or that should be the starting point, at least.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Dutch have the best hydraulic engineering and the best santa.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I love Schwarzer Peter and the traditions regarding him.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    He looks okay to me. "Rescuing St. Nicholas Around the World" is trying to reclaim St. Nicholas from the woke Santa Claus of the West or Did Moroz in the U.S.S.R. Like trying to put Christ back into Christmas.

    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/m/mykolay.jpgChristmas.

    Several European countries each has its own chapter. Check it out, it's a great idea:


    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/s/svaty-vs-did.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Yellowface Anon

  554. German_reader says:
    @iffen
    @German_reader

    (seriusly, htf should I know?

    I just thought that you would have your ear to ground on the political scene in Germany and that you would be a reliable informant for my benefit. I don't know very much about the political situation in Europe and don't rely on "MSM" to inform me.

    As some sort of analogy, I can tell you that the "insurrection" in the U. S. is pure political fabrication for the benefit of keeping the SJW troopers on alert and active. I'm not sure that someone at a distance could "know" this for sure.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Well, sorry, I thought you were trolling a bit again.
    But it’s pretty much like I wrote in my previous comment. Genuine neo-Nazis do exist in Germany (just like I suppose there still are some genuine Klansmen or similar groups in the US), maybe a few ten thousand (officially there are about 30 000 far right extremists in Germany, whatever that means), with a violence-prone core of a few thousand. However, these genuine Nazi types are of course a fairly marginal phenomenon, and the establishment has a much more wide-ranging definition of far right extremism (basically you’re not supposed to object to their immigration policy at all), and is steadily increasing repression against dissent, with all manner of absurd witch hunts. The supposed threat by the far right is also used as a pretext to shower “civil society” antifa and antiracist groups with millions of taxpayers’ money, so they can promote their agenda basically with state support. imo the dynamics are similar to those in the US. But I’m a biased observer of course.

  555. @songbird
    @iffen

    Interesting, don't believe I heard him evoked before on this. TBH, I never could get very interested in the controversy of hanging chads, etc. As I didn't like Gore or Bush. Never used one of those machines myself, but I can still remember seeing them used, when I was a kid. Nobody seemed to be having a problem with it, back then.

    The one interesting point of Bush, IMO, which possibly made him different from Gore was his support for tax funding for religious NGOs. (Not that I am in favor of this, I think such groups are often doing evil). But what I thought was curious about it was how it appealed to Evangelicals and even to Christian Africans I knew, whose instinct was to hate Bush, for the standard reasons of seeing him as being racist or something.

    Replies: @iffen

    As I didn’t like Gore or Bush.

    It was the first presidential election in which I did not cast a vote because I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Gore. It troubles me to this day in that I think that I somehow dishonored my ancestors who died procuring for ordinary people the right to vote.

    I never could get very interested in the controversy of hanging chads, etc.

    It is interesting because a “political” Supreme Court designated Bush to be President. Later analyses showed that Gore was the choice of Florida voters.

  556. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The Dutch have the best hydraulic engineering and the best santa.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Sintenpiet.jpg/1200px-Sintenpiet.jpg

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    I love Schwarzer Peter and the traditions regarding him.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @songbird

    The traditional grab of the Morris dancers were cancelled recently in the UK:

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/12/29/english-morris-dancers-black-face-paint-cancelled-after-racism-allegations/
    _____________
    Any predictions for the new year? Probably be an interesting one, what with the price of fertilizer skyrocketing.

  557. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The Dutch have the best hydraulic engineering and the best santa.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Sintenpiet.jpg/1200px-Sintenpiet.jpg

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    He looks okay to me. “Rescuing St. Nicholas Around the World” is trying to reclaim St. Nicholas from the woke Santa Claus of the West or Did Moroz in the U.S.S.R. Like trying to put Christ back into Christmas.

    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/m/mykolay.jpgChristmas.

    Several European countries each has its own chapter. Check it out, it’s a great idea:

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/around-the-world

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    Ded Moroz was both a "pagan" character that acquired Orthodox characteristics under Tsarist times, and a secularization of St. Nicholas similar to Americanized Santa under Soviet times.

    Ded Moroz should have a bit more religious symbolism, but in himself it's good, because he isn't Christian in the first place. St. Nicholas should also co-exist as a religious alternative, especially in Catholic/Uniate countries.

    Santa & Ded Moroz should be kicked out of Muslim/Buddhist/Confucian countries, including capitalist East Asia. But even tho China is trying to deemphasize Christmas, I'm worried about Chinese 11/11 and 12/12 which are purely deracinated consumerist gimmicks by online retailers.

    Replies: @A123

  558. @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    He looks okay to me. "Rescuing St. Nicholas Around the World" is trying to reclaim St. Nicholas from the woke Santa Claus of the West or Did Moroz in the U.S.S.R. Like trying to put Christ back into Christmas.

    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/m/mykolay.jpgChristmas.

    Several European countries each has its own chapter. Check it out, it's a great idea:


    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/s/svaty-vs-did.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Yellowface Anon

  559. Read a few reports on the housing crisis in Sweden recent weeks. It is no exaggeration to say that the “Swedish model” is being systematically demolished from the inside. It’s not just the right-wing parties, even the center-left is in on it.

    From 1970 onwards, Sweden was unique in Europe in the sense that we refused “social housing”. There was a deliberate attempt to prevent a segmentation of society into different official classes. We had one standard for all apartments. One system for everyone, regardless of income or employment. From the fanciest apartments to the poorest areas, all were regulated into a single queue, available to all who had the years required waiting.

    A big chunk was owned by the public, the so-called allmännyttan. That has been dwindled in recent years on purpose. Even if you were a private landlord, you were still forced to accept the normative rents in the public sector. That got abolished in 2011. Year by year, small bits were chewed off.

    Our government finally fell over the issue this year as the “””social democrats””” were willing to privatise the system even further. Sweden is becoming America, not just demographically but also economically. At the last moment, the left-wing party stepped in and prevented it. But it is just a question of time. The big parties are complicit and bought off, even if public polling shows even the right’s voters are against this.

    Folks like me will always be okay, we own our housing and we’ll pay off the mortgage sooner rather than later. But even in my neighbourhood, I’ve seen rapid gentrification over the past few years alone. It used to be a semi-rough place, which is why I bought an apartment here, now it’s almost respectable. Give it a decade and it will become pretentious. Everyone who can’t afford to live here becomes surplus humanity and relegated to the margins.

    It’s necessary for society to have some amount of socio-economic diversity, I’m repulsed by the idea of a deeply segregated society, US-style. Gated neighborhoods is cancer.

    I don’t see how you can reach that without affordable, broad-based public housing. “Social housing” is a red herring, as it re-inforces the categorisation of peoples into segmented classes.

    Berlin has had massive protests in recent years as rent increased 100%. Most Germans rent rather than own their apartments. The voters voted to force a large part of their housing stock to be put back into public hands. Naturally, even the “””social democrats””” opposed it, saying they’d have to compensate the leechers for expropriation. Why? Liquidate the private landlords.

    Cheap housing isn’t just a moral or socio-economic question. It’s a question of aesthetics and culture. The most interesting people are seldom the richest or conventionally successful. Academic middle-class is my class, and while most are inherently nice and decent people they are also often dreadfully boring. Being too functional brings with it its own disadvantages and it makes society less dynamic. A certain kind of flair is required, and the people who can bring it often live on the margin of survival. Think of all the struggling artists or bohemians. Cheap housing should be thought of in the same vein as cheap energy: it allows for far greater and interesting things, it is the great force-multiplier.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Yellowface Anon, LatW
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Sweden is becoming America

     

    Isn't the dream of Sweden, a synthesis of capitalism and socialism. For example, Ikea is the greatest example of an affordable mass culture.

    When the BBC reports about Sweden in 1963, much of the English focus is about the extreme wealth of country allowing for capitalism to secure the hopes of socialist mass society.
    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=572279669961124

    This is closer to Marx's communism, which will be the final stage of the wealthiest capitalist society, than the communist societies of the 20th century.


    Think of all bohemians

     

    Our most famous and tragic figures of opera
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=260oRLBYLhE

    Replies: @Pericles

    , @Beckow
    @Thulean Friend

    I flew to Arlanda Stockholm airport shortly before corona and took the "express train" to the city, mid-day, mid-week. It broke and stopped about 10 minutes into the journey. The local grumpy transport monkeys herded us - 100's of people - to a dreary bus stop where we waited about 30 minutes for buses to arrive. The buses were so crowded that they looked like we were in Mumbai, many of the people also looked like they just came from there. I struck a conversation with a Swedish girl, turned out she was a barrista on her way to her city center job. She said that trains break all the time, she and her friends lived one hour plus from their jobs in small apartments. They had no hope of ever owning anything. Their lives were pathetic. She knew a shortcut, instead of suffering on the bus, we got off after 20 minutes and switched to the subway. The subway was dirty, menacing and loud - compared to Prague it was really not much.

    I actually liked Sweden, but what you described is inevitable. It is not that much "America" as simply a process of gradual monetizing of all activity - that is what capitalism is. It has some strengths: it pushes people to work harder, although most of that work is increasingly meaningless and unneeded, people selling stuff to each other for invented needs.

    It has to monetize things so profits can be made - that leads to some efficiencies, but in latter stages it destroys all semblance of normal life. Everything is privatised, overly complex, byrocratic, and just unpleasant. It drains life out of most people. Housing is a natural monopoly and thus its cost increases to the point of absurdity - 25-50% of younger peoples incomes. I have been all over the world, but the sadness of the young Swedes is hard to match. But they do have plenty of bananas.

    Replies: @utu

  560. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @sudden death

    Mixing controversies together in building an agenda is not competent rhetoric.

    That is possibly true. Let's say that it is. Why in the heck would you even bring it up? It's like mixing watermelon and garlic toast. Let's say I think they go together great. That is not something I would ever tell somebody else because they are going to agree .01% of the time and they are going to think I am kind of a weirdo over 90% of the time.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Mixing controversies together in building an agenda is not competent rhetoric.

    That is possibly true. Let’s say that it is. Why in the heck would you even bring it up?

    Idea about speeding of white replacement because of Covid is controversial to whom? For blacks&islamists maybe, but certainly should not be for white Christian populists and the very least so here at Unz.

  561. @songbird
    @AP


    The Catholics – especially Spaniards
     
    Population density, ad nauseam. In fact, you can duplicate it with the ultimate ruthless warriors, Proto-Indo Europeans. They conquered Southern Europe, but there wasn't the extreme population turnover there, nor in Southern India, where many Dravidians can still be seen today.

    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were.
     
    Oh, but I think you are wrong.

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable. Pointing to the '30s and '40s as the most degenerate time, doesn't make any sense on numerous levels.

    I don't think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained. Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place? It makes absolutely zero sense.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc. Alien foreigners on the dole in public housing. In your face gayness, or people being called racists, where you could have searched all day for a black thirty years ago.

    Your definition is unworkable. Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate? No, that will simply make them more degenerate.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    Population density, ad nauseam.

    Patterns of colonization, which must have been discussed here ad nauseam, too.

    The Spanish colonization of the New World was carried out by soldiers and priests, with scarcely any women involved. Imagine that you are a Spanish soldier with low expectations of returning to Europe and at the end of a campaign to pacify the natives you are are awarded ownership of a vast tract of land, including all Indians inside it. What are you gonna do? Maintain celibacy on behalf of purity of blood? Many rank-and-file Spanish soldiers were probably not so pure to begin with, as they were typically recruited from the lower classes in Southern Spain, including common prisoners, not long after the Moors had been defeated.

    The colonization of North America by Protestants was totally different. From the Mayflower days it was done by groups of families living in close-knit communities.

    Perhaps these two different patterns of colonization revealed themselves a different propensity of these European groups to mix themselves with other races but I am not sure. In Latin American countries with important communities of non-Iberian Europeans, such as Chile or Argentina, I haven’t seen any difference in the rates at which North and Southern Europeans marry non-Euros. I would actually say that nowadays mixed marriages are more common in Protestant countries, including the US, than in the South and East of Europe.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mikel

    You bring up a good point about them needing to push through things. Pretty big difference from landing at some temperate bay.


    Imagine that you are a Spanish soldier with low expectations of returning to Europe and at the end of a campaign to pacify the natives you are are awarded ownership of a vast tract of land, including all Indians inside it. What are you gonna do?
     
    IIRC, Inca Garcilaso de la Vega (natural born, mestizo, to an Inca woman) said that the Inca women were mostly pushed aside, when the conquistadors got brides from Spain. (This will shock AP's morals) Less preference was given to Mestizo children. Though, I imagine that they continued with polygamous relationships in some form, having many bastard children. But such stories were not fit for the royal ears of Spain.

    It is an interesting question to me at what point of dilution would there cease to be a fitness cost to having Amerind genes in terms of disease. I think having one parent would be a pretty big difference. But I honestly have no idea. It is also an interesting question how much the Euro component grew based merely on disease in Mestizo children.
  562. @songbird
    @AP


    The Catholics – especially Spaniards
     
    Population density, ad nauseam. In fact, you can duplicate it with the ultimate ruthless warriors, Proto-Indo Europeans. They conquered Southern Europe, but there wasn't the extreme population turnover there, nor in Southern India, where many Dravidians can still be seen today.

    There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were.
     
    Oh, but I think you are wrong.

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable. Pointing to the '30s and '40s as the most degenerate time, doesn't make any sense on numerous levels.

    I don't think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained. Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place? It makes absolutely zero sense.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc. Alien foreigners on the dole in public housing. In your face gayness, or people being called racists, where you could have searched all day for a black thirty years ago.

    Your definition is unworkable. Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate? No, that will simply make them more degenerate.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AP

    The Catholics – especially Spaniards

    Population density, ad nauseam.

    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    “There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were.”

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.

    The examples you cite consist of misuse of the clear and undeniable fact that Hitler and his followers were degenerates. Demagogues misuse all sorts of things to pursue their agenda. For example, they misuse compassion to push for the mutilation of “trans” children. Does that mean compassion is “sinful?”

    Among the many horrible effects of Nazi degeneracy and depravity is that it opened the door to such arguments by anti-Germans.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable.

    It’s not my definition, it is the definition. I am not a post-modernist who plays with language.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/degenerate

    having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type

    having sunk to a lower and usually corrupt and vicious state

    The mid-century Nazis and upper class Russian Bolsheviks clearly meet these definitions.

    I don’t think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained.

    Of course. I was clear in my comment that Poland of that same era was not degenerate. Neither was any other country.

    Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place?

    Why do you think you have to be in a place to condemn evil and degeneracy? I was never in a gulag, nor a concentration camp. I was never in Jeffrey Dahmer’s bedroom when he sodomized and murdered his victims.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc

    Those are also bad but not as bad as industrialized-scale mass murder of human beings. Do you agree?

    Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate?

    Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.
     
    Paraguay is about the same distance from the equator as Mexico. Therefore, is it a surprise that there is a large Amerind genetic component? The churches are just a function of population density. It is not surprising that where there were churches, there was music. In fact, organs were one of the things that was commonly looted from churches in medieval times.

    Latitude strikes again. In fact, in Mexico there is more Euro heritage in the north than in the south. According to you this would seem to mean that the Spanish Catholics massacred more of them there. But my theories can explain it coherently, without extra bloodshed.

    I also want to add another thing I forgot, though not very applicable to Paraguay: some of South America is very high elevation. Amerinds had genetic adaptations for living at high altitude and having babies at high altitude and Spanish didn't.

    Jeffrey Dahmer
     
    Dahmer and Hitler both make a very poor homily. You will not convince Hitler or Dahmer. And the faithful will wonder why you are referencing the modern state religion instead of that of their forefathers.

    But you connecting them spurs interesting thoughts in me. I have always been baffled by these people who love to watch murder shows. (I mean real life shows about serial killers) I wonder if there is some commonality between them and the modern "Nazi-hunters." Maybe, some people try to get a hit off of disgust or the vicarious (imagined) danger of it, and hence have what strikes me as a monomaniacal or unhealthy focus on these things. It is interesting how they had the show recently about Nazi-hunters murdering white people, though I did not watch it, and think they were supposed to be the heroes or something.

    Of course, I don't know that watching real life murder shows damages society, though I do somewhat suspect that it does. Based on the way that it has become such a topic for fiction, which strikes me as somewhat degenerate, especially, when it often involves some level of gore.

    But referencing Hitler more than we reference God definitely strikes me as being damaging to society. (BTW, I wonder which you have referenced more here?)

    Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate?

    Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland.
     
    I am surprised you would say that. Aren't you fighting them in America, where they were also never a problem? How can we expect nobody to fight them in Ireland, when multiculturalism has been introduced there like a plague bacillus? And when they force-fed toxic American and British culture?

    Replies: @AP


  563. The original reverse glass image painted by Yaroslava Surmach Mills is now located within my very own sister’s private collection of Ukrainian art. It hangs beautifully in her dining room, near her exquisite collection of Easter eggs. I bring this up because you can see it within the Ukrainian section of the “Saving St. Nicholas” website that I’ve cited above and also because the St. Nichols holiday was recently celebrated round the world on December 19. Here in Phoenix, the holiday was especially delightful as many people have been held up in their own homes due to Covid, and it was nice to finally see so many familiar faces. I’m not sure where they came from, but judging from many names we had a strong contingent of Germans that showed up, not to mention many Romanians too. St. Nicholas is for everybody!

  564. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Is there a mobile home park equivalent in Russia? Where does the lower class Russian find shelter these days? I used to have a Russian boarder living with me from Pskov who would always try to tempt me to move to his town, tempting me with a decent house for a couple of thousand bucks? He drove a rig here for several years (as do many Russians and Ukrainians), made some money, went back and now lives in Crimea (he was ex-military). There are a lot of videos on YouTube showing abandoned and dilapidated towns in Ukraine. If you can stomach no electricity and no water, you could move in and live for free. There are probably similar ghost towns in Russia too?..........

    Replies: @Dmitry

    ghost towns in Russia

    Alarge part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones.

    Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places.

    This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.

    A lot of the settlement in Russia had been in communist times, artificially encouraged and without diverse industry. After lifting limits of internal migration, it is inevitable that there will be some re-shifting of populations. However, the vast scale of population re-shifting and population flood of young people into the large cities is at crazy and dystopian scale, although profitable for the construction.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Dmitry

    There's some movement of Russian anti-centralists in the opposite direction since COVID, not unlike the much biggest one in the US.

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    A large part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones. Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places. This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.
     
    Not a very glowing, optimistic picture of Russia. On the contrary, quite gloomy and dystopic. Cheer up, because of Ukraine's very menacing provocative moves on Russia's border, Uncle Vasia will be able to create yet another war, blame it all on the West, and get the Russian mindset away from the domestic s___hole that you've described.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  565. There is an interesting documentary about why New York’s new residential skyscrapers are half empty, released by “The B1M” on YouTube last week.

    Their argument is that bourgeois capitalism is increasing the liquidity of real estate, and therefore constructing the architecture of the apartments to behave like sealed, fungible, bank vaults in the sky. (Their argument is presented at point 10:00 in the video)

    They also discuss the situation with Zombie urbanism which has been discussed here before. This is where the wealthy houses of the cities become half empty as they used as sealed assets by the international investors.

    This conversion of housing to sealed, liquid assets, doesn’t become completely zombie though, as often the children of international investors are flowing between these assets and contributing a kind of touristic cafe culture. E.g. how London becomes a parade of supercars from the Arabian Gulf states every summer.

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Dmitry

    This is something that can be easily avoided by a Georgist land tax. Astral Codex Ten (for Scott Alexander's disdain of rightoids) has a series of guest posts on Georgism.

  566. @Thulean Friend
    Read a few reports on the housing crisis in Sweden recent weeks. It is no exaggeration to say that the "Swedish model" is being systematically demolished from the inside. It's not just the right-wing parties, even the center-left is in on it.

    From 1970 onwards, Sweden was unique in Europe in the sense that we refused "social housing". There was a deliberate attempt to prevent a segmentation of society into different official classes. We had one standard for all apartments. One system for everyone, regardless of income or employment. From the fanciest apartments to the poorest areas, all were regulated into a single queue, available to all who had the years required waiting.

    A big chunk was owned by the public, the so-called allmännyttan. That has been dwindled in recent years on purpose. Even if you were a private landlord, you were still forced to accept the normative rents in the public sector. That got abolished in 2011. Year by year, small bits were chewed off.

    Our government finally fell over the issue this year as the """social democrats""" were willing to privatise the system even further. Sweden is becoming America, not just demographically but also economically. At the last moment, the left-wing party stepped in and prevented it. But it is just a question of time. The big parties are complicit and bought off, even if public polling shows even the right's voters are against this.

    Folks like me will always be okay, we own our housing and we'll pay off the mortgage sooner rather than later. But even in my neighbourhood, I've seen rapid gentrification over the past few years alone. It used to be a semi-rough place, which is why I bought an apartment here, now it's almost respectable. Give it a decade and it will become pretentious. Everyone who can't afford to live here becomes surplus humanity and relegated to the margins.

    It's necessary for society to have some amount of socio-economic diversity, I'm repulsed by the idea of a deeply segregated society, US-style. Gated neighborhoods is cancer.

    I don't see how you can reach that without affordable, broad-based public housing. "Social housing" is a red herring, as it re-inforces the categorisation of peoples into segmented classes.

    Berlin has had massive protests in recent years as rent increased 100%. Most Germans rent rather than own their apartments. The voters voted to force a large part of their housing stock to be put back into public hands. Naturally, even the """social democrats""" opposed it, saying they'd have to compensate the leechers for expropriation. Why? Liquidate the private landlords.

    Cheap housing isn't just a moral or socio-economic question. It's a question of aesthetics and culture. The most interesting people are seldom the richest or conventionally successful. Academic middle-class is my class, and while most are inherently nice and decent people they are also often dreadfully boring. Being too functional brings with it its own disadvantages and it makes society less dynamic. A certain kind of flair is required, and the people who can bring it often live on the margin of survival. Think of all the struggling artists or bohemians. Cheap housing should be thought of in the same vein as cheap energy: it allows for far greater and interesting things, it is the great force-multiplier.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Beckow

    Sweden is becoming America

    Isn’t the dream of Sweden, a synthesis of capitalism and socialism. For example, Ikea is the greatest example of an affordable mass culture.

    When the BBC reports about Sweden in 1963, much of the English focus is about the extreme wealth of country allowing for capitalism to secure the hopes of socialist mass society.
    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=572279669961124

    This is closer to Marx’s communism, which will be the final stage of the wealthiest capitalist society, than the communist societies of the 20th century.

    Think of all bohemians

    Our most famous and tragic figures of opera

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Dmitry


    Isn’t the dream of Sweden, a synthesis of capitalism and socialism. For example, Ikea is the greatest example of an affordable mass culture.

     

    As the old saw goes, Per-Albin built folkhemmet and Ingvar furnished it. (Per-Albin Hansson, long-time Minister of State.)

    It should also be remembered that in the 1970s the state foolishly, and out of greed, drove Ikea out of the country. One of the several poisonous legacies of the Palme era that inspired the reforms of the 1980s.
  567. @Mikel
    @songbird


    Population density, ad nauseam.
     
    Patterns of colonization, which must have been discussed here ad nauseam, too.

    The Spanish colonization of the New World was carried out by soldiers and priests, with scarcely any women involved. Imagine that you are a Spanish soldier with low expectations of returning to Europe and at the end of a campaign to pacify the natives you are are awarded ownership of a vast tract of land, including all Indians inside it. What are you gonna do? Maintain celibacy on behalf of purity of blood? Many rank-and-file Spanish soldiers were probably not so pure to begin with, as they were typically recruited from the lower classes in Southern Spain, including common prisoners, not long after the Moors had been defeated.

    The colonization of North America by Protestants was totally different. From the Mayflower days it was done by groups of families living in close-knit communities.

    Perhaps these two different patterns of colonization revealed themselves a different propensity of these European groups to mix themselves with other races but I am not sure. In Latin American countries with important communities of non-Iberian Europeans, such as Chile or Argentina, I haven't seen any difference in the rates at which North and Southern Europeans marry non-Euros. I would actually say that nowadays mixed marriages are more common in Protestant countries, including the US, than in the South and East of Europe.

    Replies: @songbird

    You bring up a good point about them needing to push through things. Pretty big difference from landing at some temperate bay.

    Imagine that you are a Spanish soldier with low expectations of returning to Europe and at the end of a campaign to pacify the natives you are are awarded ownership of a vast tract of land, including all Indians inside it. What are you gonna do?

    IIRC, Inca Garcilaso de la Vega (natural born, mestizo, to an Inca woman) said that the Inca women were mostly pushed aside, when the conquistadors got brides from Spain. (This will shock AP’s morals) Less preference was given to Mestizo children. Though, I imagine that they continued with polygamous relationships in some form, having many bastard children. But such stories were not fit for the royal ears of Spain.

    It is an interesting question to me at what point of dilution would there cease to be a fitness cost to having Amerind genes in terms of disease. I think having one parent would be a pretty big difference. But I honestly have no idea. It is also an interesting question how much the Euro component grew based merely on disease in Mestizo children.

  568. @Thulean Friend
    Read a few reports on the housing crisis in Sweden recent weeks. It is no exaggeration to say that the "Swedish model" is being systematically demolished from the inside. It's not just the right-wing parties, even the center-left is in on it.

    From 1970 onwards, Sweden was unique in Europe in the sense that we refused "social housing". There was a deliberate attempt to prevent a segmentation of society into different official classes. We had one standard for all apartments. One system for everyone, regardless of income or employment. From the fanciest apartments to the poorest areas, all were regulated into a single queue, available to all who had the years required waiting.

    A big chunk was owned by the public, the so-called allmännyttan. That has been dwindled in recent years on purpose. Even if you were a private landlord, you were still forced to accept the normative rents in the public sector. That got abolished in 2011. Year by year, small bits were chewed off.

    Our government finally fell over the issue this year as the """social democrats""" were willing to privatise the system even further. Sweden is becoming America, not just demographically but also economically. At the last moment, the left-wing party stepped in and prevented it. But it is just a question of time. The big parties are complicit and bought off, even if public polling shows even the right's voters are against this.

    Folks like me will always be okay, we own our housing and we'll pay off the mortgage sooner rather than later. But even in my neighbourhood, I've seen rapid gentrification over the past few years alone. It used to be a semi-rough place, which is why I bought an apartment here, now it's almost respectable. Give it a decade and it will become pretentious. Everyone who can't afford to live here becomes surplus humanity and relegated to the margins.

    It's necessary for society to have some amount of socio-economic diversity, I'm repulsed by the idea of a deeply segregated society, US-style. Gated neighborhoods is cancer.

    I don't see how you can reach that without affordable, broad-based public housing. "Social housing" is a red herring, as it re-inforces the categorisation of peoples into segmented classes.

    Berlin has had massive protests in recent years as rent increased 100%. Most Germans rent rather than own their apartments. The voters voted to force a large part of their housing stock to be put back into public hands. Naturally, even the """social democrats""" opposed it, saying they'd have to compensate the leechers for expropriation. Why? Liquidate the private landlords.

    Cheap housing isn't just a moral or socio-economic question. It's a question of aesthetics and culture. The most interesting people are seldom the richest or conventionally successful. Academic middle-class is my class, and while most are inherently nice and decent people they are also often dreadfully boring. Being too functional brings with it its own disadvantages and it makes society less dynamic. A certain kind of flair is required, and the people who can bring it often live on the margin of survival. Think of all the struggling artists or bohemians. Cheap housing should be thought of in the same vein as cheap energy: it allows for far greater and interesting things, it is the great force-multiplier.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Beckow

    I flew to Arlanda Stockholm airport shortly before corona and took the “express train” to the city, mid-day, mid-week. It broke and stopped about 10 minutes into the journey. The local grumpy transport monkeys herded us – 100’s of people – to a dreary bus stop where we waited about 30 minutes for buses to arrive. The buses were so crowded that they looked like we were in Mumbai, many of the people also looked like they just came from there. I struck a conversation with a Swedish girl, turned out she was a barrista on her way to her city center job. She said that trains break all the time, she and her friends lived one hour plus from their jobs in small apartments. They had no hope of ever owning anything. Their lives were pathetic. She knew a shortcut, instead of suffering on the bus, we got off after 20 minutes and switched to the subway. The subway was dirty, menacing and loud – compared to Prague it was really not much.

    I actually liked Sweden, but what you described is inevitable. It is not that much “America” as simply a process of gradual monetizing of all activity – that is what capitalism is. It has some strengths: it pushes people to work harder, although most of that work is increasingly meaningless and unneeded, people selling stuff to each other for invented needs.

    It has to monetize things so profits can be made – that leads to some efficiencies, but in latter stages it destroys all semblance of normal life. Everything is privatised, overly complex, byrocratic, and just unpleasant. It drains life out of most people. Housing is a natural monopoly and thus its cost increases to the point of absurdity – 25-50% of younger peoples incomes. I have been all over the world, but the sadness of the young Swedes is hard to match. But they do have plenty of bananas.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Beckow

    I wouldn't expect answer from TF if I were you:


    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-78/#comment-3256925
    Does anyone take Beckow seriously? He is a mentally ill person.
     
    And TF is right. What you write here about Sweden and Stockholm metro in particular is a perfect example of the fact that you are unable to experience reality without overloading interference of your pettiness, smallness, resentments and hatreds. It's a pity that for Slovakia that such an ugly character like you will be forever associated with Slovakia for those who had misfortune of knowing you from Karlin's blog.

    Replies: @Beckow

  569. @AP
    @songbird


    The Catholics – especially Spaniards

    Population density, ad nauseam.
     
    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    "There is nothing sinful in bringing up Hitler and his followers as exemplars of degeneracy, which is what they were."

    ...

    It is used to excuse Weimar Berlin, to excoriate the idea of moral censorship, to promote the idea of ideological censorship, to promote open borders, to protect those in power, to induce false shame in children, to make Antifa feel like they are fighting some moral crusade. I could go on and on, but it all seems too obvious.
     
    The examples you cite consist of misuse of the clear and undeniable fact that Hitler and his followers were degenerates. Demagogues misuse all sorts of things to pursue their agenda. For example, they misuse compassion to push for the mutilation of "trans" children. Does that mean compassion is "sinful?"

    Among the many horrible effects of Nazi degeneracy and depravity is that it opened the door to such arguments by anti-Germans.

    I think your definition of degeneracy is simply unworkable.
     
    It's not my definition, it is the definition. I am not a post-modernist who plays with language.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/degenerate

    having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type

    having sunk to a lower and usually corrupt and vicious state

    The mid-century Nazis and upper class Russian Bolsheviks clearly meet these definitions.

    I don’t think it results in moral good in Germany, but, taking it in its best light, your definition for granted, it would be geographically constrained.
     
    Of course. I was clear in my comment that Poland of that same era was not degenerate. Neither was any other country.

    Should someone in Ireland bring up the Nazis or Bolsheviks as being the height of degeneracy, when they never were in that place?
     
    Why do you think you have to be in a place to condemn evil and degeneracy? I was never in a gulag, nor a concentration camp. I was never in Jeffrey Dahmer's bedroom when he sodomized and murdered his victims.

    What they should look at is things like divorce, public dress and deportment, rates of illegitimacy, church attendance, obesity, etc
     
    Those are also bad but not as bad as industrialized-scale mass murder of human beings. Do you agree?

    Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate?
     
    Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don't seem to be problem in Ireland.

    Replies: @songbird

    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    Paraguay is about the same distance from the equator as Mexico.

    [MORE]
    Therefore, is it a surprise that there is a large Amerind genetic component? The churches are just a function of population density. It is not surprising that where there were churches, there was music. In fact, organs were one of the things that was commonly looted from churches in medieval times.

    Latitude strikes again. In fact, in Mexico there is more Euro heritage in the north than in the south. According to you this would seem to mean that the Spanish Catholics massacred more of them there. But my theories can explain it coherently, without extra bloodshed.

    I also want to add another thing I forgot, though not very applicable to Paraguay: some of South America is very high elevation. Amerinds had genetic adaptations for living at high altitude and having babies at high altitude and Spanish didn’t.

    Jeffrey Dahmer

    Dahmer and Hitler both make a very poor homily. You will not convince Hitler or Dahmer. And the faithful will wonder why you are referencing the modern state religion instead of that of their forefathers.

    But you connecting them spurs interesting thoughts in me. I have always been baffled by these people who love to watch murder shows. (I mean real life shows about serial killers) I wonder if there is some commonality between them and the modern “Nazi-hunters.” Maybe, some people try to get a hit off of disgust or the vicarious (imagined) danger of it, and hence have what strikes me as a monomaniacal or unhealthy focus on these things. It is interesting how they had the show recently about Nazi-hunters murdering white people, though I did not watch it, and think they were supposed to be the heroes or something.

    Of course, I don’t know that watching real life murder shows damages society, though I do somewhat suspect that it does. Based on the way that it has become such a topic for fiction, which strikes me as somewhat degenerate, especially, when it often involves some level of gore.

    But referencing Hitler more than we reference God definitely strikes me as being damaging to society. (BTW, I wonder which you have referenced more here?)

    Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate?

    Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland.

    I am surprised you would say that. Aren’t you fighting them in America, where they were also never a problem? How can we expect nobody to fight them in Ireland, when multiculturalism has been introduced there like a plague bacillus? And when they force-fed toxic American and British culture?

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    Paraguay is about the same distance from the equator as Mexico.
     
    So? The population, living in the forests, was much less dense than in urban Mexico or Peru.

    The churches are just a function of population density.
     
    They are a function of treating the Natives humanely by teaching them and helping them, rather than exterminating them.

    In fact, in Mexico there is more Euro heritage in the north than in the south.
     
    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude but were controlled by a much more cruel Anglo Protestant people who exterminated or drove off the Natives rather than teach them how to build beautiful churches.

    According to you this would seem to mean that the Spanish Catholics massacred more of them there.
     
    Nonsense. It would depend on pre-contact population.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.
    Yet Quebec is further from the equator than New England, and has three times more Natives. Latitude no longer matters?

    Of course, I don’t know that watching real life murder shows damages society, though I do somewhat suspect that it does. Based on the way that it has become such a topic for fiction, which strikes me as somewhat degenerate, especially, when it often involves some level of gore.
     
    Probably, though not nearly as degenerate as actual mass murder. Women tend to watch crime shows (some weird interest in predator-prey dynamic - men tend to watch action movies). A society in which women watch true crime stories is less degenerate than one where women work in concentration camps.

    But referencing Hitler more than we reference God definitely strikes me as being damaging to society. (BTW, I wonder which you have referenced more here?)
     
    We tend to discuss history more than religion here. Which is why our posting histories indicates that both of us have referenced Hitler more than God.

    "Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland."

    I am surprised you would say that. Aren’t you fighting them in America, where they were also never a problem?
     
    Who is fighting them in America? Not me. Nazis are despicable, but not a problem.

    Replies: @songbird

  570. Nick Johnson’s new report about Seattle “Freeattle”.

    He was last year recommending Seattle as one of the best places to live in America. Homeless are flooding to the expensive areas as a kind of protest.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    I visited there before the homeless and drug addicts took over. It was okay, nothing special. Beautiful nature around, but the city was nothing really.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  571. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    This is a close to a variety of work.

    There is only one way I am going to work. I have to get paid.

    Replies: @Max Demian

    There is only one way I am going to work. I have to get paid.

    You would never, or have never, volunteered?

    Regardless, that is not my concern here. It is, rather, your flippant response to the detailed information posted by A123 concerning the technical details of embedding an image within a comment. Said information would appear to be quite accurate. At a minimum, he is certainly correct that the reality of the matter can be far more complicated, and far less intuitive, than one would think. Whether or not A123 had, as you asserted, exhibited “autism” in his posts on the topic, I see no reason to suspect that they were reflective of anything less benign than an earnest effort to be helpful on his part. Certainly not, as this reply of yours would seem to suggest, any presumed or implied impositions or demands upon anyone.

    Perhaps I have misread your response, and if that is the case, then I apologize. But it comes across to me as gratuitously hostile and rather petty. (If not also ironic; could one not view your response here as itself revealing, or at least suggestive of a need or a trait that could just as easily be characterized, were one so inclined, as “autistic”?)

    The above provides a segue for me to address some of Barbarossa‘s comments in this thread. I found many of them not only eminently worthy of commendation, but also to be cogent articulations of views and thinking that, at at a minimum, converge considerably with my own. Among those that ticked both of those boxes were Barbarossa’s comments lamenting the increased prevalence of the use of the video format to present information that would be better presented in written form (and previously would have been).

    [MORE]

    In Comment #221, Barbarossa wrote:

    As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I’ll be looking up some headline and I’ll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can’t be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative.

    The relation to the topic of my present reply? Barbarossa had made the post I quoted from above in reply to the statement, made by a different individual, that,

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it.

    Barbarossa, as an addendum to his earlier comments addressing the matter of videos vs. writing, wrote to A123,

    I should hasten to add that I wasn’t necessarily seconding Yevardian’s shade towards you. It seemed rather mean spirited and unnecessary.
    The sentence just got me headed on a tangent.

    As for A123, his commenting persona presents difficulties, and I find myself somewhat conflicted in my reaction to him. On one hand, his categorical, reflexive, cartoon-like statements concerning Islam, and absurdly indiscriminate hurling of epithets such as “low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo“, etc., are, frankly, a rank embarrassment. There is no just no way around this. In mentioning it, I neither derive any pleasure nor am motivated by any malice, resentment, or hostility. On the contrary, there is a certain affable, and fundamentally decent quality about A123 that comes through in a number of his comments. I can easily imagine him making a fine, even exemplary neighbor, co-worker or business partner, for example. (Though would I still feel this way were I to ever, personally, perceive myself as being a target of any of A123’s vitriolic bigotry?) And, on some matters at least, I have read comments from A123 in which he appeared to be reasonable, perhaps even to make a point or two that is at least worthy of consideration.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Max Demian


    absurdly indiscriminate hurling of epithets such as “low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo“, etc., are, frankly, a rank embarrassment.
     
    Max,

    I suspect you arrived after @Iffen the Troll went on repeated mouth frothing rampages using the terms "low-IQ & yahoo" to libel myself, Donald Trump, and MAGA supporters. When Iffen apologizes, I will be able to stop using the Iffen term "yahoo" and the Iffen misrepresentation of "low-IQ".

    Until then, Iffen and his #Bidenistas have earned the honest and accurate terms "low-IQ" and "yahoo". They are characteristics of those who willingly serve Not-The-President Biden by lying about Trump's record. They are enthusiastic supporters of Gen. SJW Milley's humiliating and incompetent Afghanistan exit strategy that killed 17 American troops.

    Is the embarrassment from using too gentle terms like "yahoo" and "low-IQ" for Iffen cheering American lives unnecessarily expended by Not-The-President Biden? What else can I do when confronted by Iffen's anti-American, dishonest, hate screed?

    I am being as kind as I can to those who attempt to derail rational conversation with obvious departures from reality. Ignoring small problems fertilizes the ground for larger ones later on. There is no upside to ignoring Iffen's intentionally malicious #NeverTrump deception. It is best to treat the disease now instead of letting it fester.

    I genuinely pity Iffen. And, I forgive Iffen.

    I realize and accept Iffen is doing the best he can with the capabilities he has. However, it is beyond my power to help Iffen until he wants to help himself.


    In mentioning it, I neither derive any pleasure nor am motivated by any malice, resentment, or hostility.
     
    There are specific life lessons reinforced by the UR website (for good or ill). I previously mentioned them to Barbarossa:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5069236

    — When needled, needle back harder
    — When insulted, insult back harder
    — When TROLLED, troll back harder

    If you do not go out your way to start a fight, there will not be a fight.

    You would be better served by calling out these who started the incivility. Not those of us who are defending ourselves, traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs (e.g. The Ten Commandments), and Main Street America from false accusations.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    -- What was the first lesson I ever taught you?, "Never start a fight, but always finish it." -- David Sheridan to John Sheridan -- Babylon 5, Episode "Severed Dreams" J. Michael Straczynski

    http://a1bert.kapsi.fi/Quotes/NoRobots/B5/054.html

    Replies: @iffen

  572. Gentlemen:

    1.) Further down in this comment, below the MORE break, I have placed a direct URL to a high-resolution .gif image file. If the image itself displays within the comment, we will know that said image format can be added to .jpg and .png as those that will embed. The image has some relation, at least tangentially, to topics and sentiments that were mentioned in a number of comemnts in the thread.

    2.) I have utilized the MORE break to prevent the image from loading by default– not because of any concern regarding the suitability or acceptability of the image itself (which is utterly innocuous and inoffensive), but rather, solely as a courtesy; in order to avoid imposing a potentially unappreciated expense of bandwidth, and time/page-unwieldiness upon the reader.

    3.) I shall now take the liberty, having already made the segue, of reiterating and further following-up on the appeal for more liberal use of the MORE tag that I had made late in the previous thread (#170).

    It seems, not only that the MORE tag is used fairly rarely at this particular blog, but when it is used, it is placed after no more than a mere few lines of text (and often before any content whatsoever). Does anyone else find this all-or-nothing, absolutist approach toward use of the MORE tag odd and counterintuitve?

    [MORE]
    Contrast it with the markedly different approach toward said usage that both I as well as any number of other individuals I have seen at Unz take. Namely, attempting to achieve an ideal balance; to place the break after enough content to give the reader enough of an indication of what to expect beyond the break in order to decide whether or not to load it. Does this approach not make a lot more sense?

    Now, without any further ado, here is the image.

    Source of image, for context and further info:
    https://www.extension77.co/brisbane-boys-college

    • Replies: @A123
    @Max Demian


    .gif image file. If the image itself displays within the comment, we will know that said image format can be added to .jpg and .png
     
    GIF, JPG, and PNG are known good. I belive TIF is also valid.

    Mr. Unz was kind enough to add vector graphics SVG for me.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/#comment-5075659
    __

    For video -- Multiple YouTube styles are available.

    RUMBLE provides embed links that look like this:

    https://rumble.com/embed/vnv7a6/?pub=4

    Remove the "?" and subsequent characters, using only the bold portion to generate an embed.
    ___

    Note: All embeds, both image and video, are suppressed by BLOCKQUOTE. Separate any links you would like to embed and place them after the quote.


    2.) I have utilized the MORE break to prevent the image from loading by default... in order to avoid imposing a potentially unappreciated expense of bandwidth, and time/page-unwieldiness upon the reader.
     
    I am not sure the [MORE] actually does this. There does not seem to be a loading delay when the tag is opened.

    3.) I shall now take the liberty, having already made the segue, of reiterating and further following-up on the appeal for more liberal use of the MORE tag that I had made late in the previous thread (#170).
     
    There is no group consensus on [MORE], so there is no social convention to govern norms about usage. It probably should be applied more frequently, but Where?, Why?, and When?

    For my occasional 😁Open Thread Humor 😂 round ups I only leave the top 2 or 3 images exposed before [MORE]. But, there is no rule for that. I do not want to chew up too many vertical inches, so it is solely my personal judgement call. I also try to cover animated GIF's with [MORE] (though occasionally forget).

    Embedded Twitter can be unpredictable. Sometimes they are much taller than anticipated.
    ____

    While I like the thought... AK's blog is gone and these Open Threads are down to a partial collection of lingering commenters. I suspect you will have little luck encouraging a new social compact given the status of this venue.

    If AK changes his mind and returns, all bets are off. However, that seems exceedingly unlikely.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    , @sher singh
    @Max Demian

    More is used when Karlin doesn't like your comment or you're engaging in off-topic trolling.
    Part of the joy of this forum is the lack of low-bandwidth troll farms||

    Please help keep it this way by indulging in the posting of high-res imgs, twitter posts, reddit threads, etc.
    You are all doing a public service by NOT following Max Demian's instructions, as he tries to create a GREAT BI-FURCATION on this forum by separating the intelligent from the retards||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Max Demian

  573. @songbird
    @AP


    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.
     
    Paraguay is about the same distance from the equator as Mexico. Therefore, is it a surprise that there is a large Amerind genetic component? The churches are just a function of population density. It is not surprising that where there were churches, there was music. In fact, organs were one of the things that was commonly looted from churches in medieval times.

    Latitude strikes again. In fact, in Mexico there is more Euro heritage in the north than in the south. According to you this would seem to mean that the Spanish Catholics massacred more of them there. But my theories can explain it coherently, without extra bloodshed.

    I also want to add another thing I forgot, though not very applicable to Paraguay: some of South America is very high elevation. Amerinds had genetic adaptations for living at high altitude and having babies at high altitude and Spanish didn't.

    Jeffrey Dahmer
     
    Dahmer and Hitler both make a very poor homily. You will not convince Hitler or Dahmer. And the faithful will wonder why you are referencing the modern state religion instead of that of their forefathers.

    But you connecting them spurs interesting thoughts in me. I have always been baffled by these people who love to watch murder shows. (I mean real life shows about serial killers) I wonder if there is some commonality between them and the modern "Nazi-hunters." Maybe, some people try to get a hit off of disgust or the vicarious (imagined) danger of it, and hence have what strikes me as a monomaniacal or unhealthy focus on these things. It is interesting how they had the show recently about Nazi-hunters murdering white people, though I did not watch it, and think they were supposed to be the heroes or something.

    Of course, I don't know that watching real life murder shows damages society, though I do somewhat suspect that it does. Based on the way that it has become such a topic for fiction, which strikes me as somewhat degenerate, especially, when it often involves some level of gore.

    But referencing Hitler more than we reference God definitely strikes me as being damaging to society. (BTW, I wonder which you have referenced more here?)

    Should the Irish be fighting Nazis, to become less degenerate?

    Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland.
     
    I am surprised you would say that. Aren't you fighting them in America, where they were also never a problem? How can we expect nobody to fight them in Ireland, when multiculturalism has been introduced there like a plague bacillus? And when they force-fed toxic American and British culture?

    Replies: @AP

    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    Paraguay is about the same distance from the equator as Mexico.

    So? The population, living in the forests, was much less dense than in urban Mexico or Peru.

    The churches are just a function of population density.

    They are a function of treating the Natives humanely by teaching them and helping them, rather than exterminating them.

    In fact, in Mexico there is more Euro heritage in the north than in the south.

    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude but were controlled by a much more cruel Anglo Protestant people who exterminated or drove off the Natives rather than teach them how to build beautiful churches.

    According to you this would seem to mean that the Spanish Catholics massacred more of them there.

    Nonsense. It would depend on pre-contact population.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.
    Yet Quebec is further from the equator than New England, and has three times more Natives. Latitude no longer matters?

    Of course, I don’t know that watching real life murder shows damages society, though I do somewhat suspect that it does. Based on the way that it has become such a topic for fiction, which strikes me as somewhat degenerate, especially, when it often involves some level of gore.

    Probably, though not nearly as degenerate as actual mass murder. Women tend to watch crime shows (some weird interest in predator-prey dynamic – men tend to watch action movies). A society in which women watch true crime stories is less degenerate than one where women work in concentration camps.

    But referencing Hitler more than we reference God definitely strikes me as being damaging to society. (BTW, I wonder which you have referenced more here?)

    We tend to discuss history more than religion here. Which is why our posting histories indicates that both of us have referenced Hitler more than God.

    “Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland.”

    I am surprised you would say that. Aren’t you fighting them in America, where they were also never a problem?

    Who is fighting them in America? Not me. Nazis are despicable, but not a problem.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude
     
    Mississippi was a colony of Catholic France and Spain. Longer than Quebec.

    Anyway, you are taking the coast of California with a Mediterranean climate (where the great, ancient civilizations flourished in the West) and giant bays, and comparing it to Mississippi, the blackest state, where Yellow Fever and Plasmodium falciparum raged?

    I'll tell you what. I might be impressed if you find a Baroque musical piece written by a native in a giant Cathedral in the 1500s, at the same distance from the equator as Boston. It is actually a comparison that would favor you, and I'll tell you why. Potatoes were domesticated in the mountains, and so developed and were adapted to many ecological niches, unlike corn.


    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.
     
    You are strawmanning me. The arguments I've made are a lot more nuanced than that. They include climate, soil type, disease dynamics, facility of ingress (poor in Quebec and Paraguay, good in Massachusetts Bay), and most importantly size.

    8x as big, is not just a little bigger, but a lot bigger. Need I add that we are comparing imaginary quantities? That injun is a semi-fictive category, and that there are strange dynamics involved in it? (Divide your Indians by 2, by adding a white parent, and more as like you get more Indians) That it is not a scientific comparison, which would be comparing genes, rather than people claiming to be Injuns.


    We tend to discuss history more than religion here. Which is why our posting histories indicates that both of us have referenced Hitler more than God.
     
    I'm not sure it is history, if we we try to create moral hierarchies of peoples, and sermonize on the putative evil that people's ancestors committed, while lionizing what we see as our own group or ethnicity.

    You should cut the fat, and reduce your moral argument. What is it? Should Amerinds be given more sovereignty? Jews more money and power? Do you think Bible reading is wrong? Or only The King James Bible? Or do you think Anglos are evil, by nature?


    Who is fighting them in America? Not me.
     
    We haven't had a war in a while. Moralizing rhetoric is how we fight now, and, at least for the Left, it seems obviously more effective than war, which makes sense as a lot of their power comes from women, gays, and soy boys, not to mention, third worlders.

    Replies: @AP

  574. @Dmitry
    Nick Johnson's new report about Seattle "Freeattle".

    He was last year recommending Seattle as one of the best places to live in America. Homeless are flooding to the expensive areas as a kind of protest.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvwyjeukJ94

    Replies: @AP

    I visited there before the homeless and drug addicts took over. It was okay, nothing special. Beautiful nature around, but the city was nothing really.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP

    When he ranked Seattle high, it was based on the statistical indicators - education, median income, life expectancy.

    In those, it seems to be a successful region, with a majority of the population even appearing to be middle class.

    I found this article on the income composition of Seattle. It appears as a majority middle class area.
    https://i.imgur.com/Ywl5sFr.jpg

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-median-income-soars-past-100000-but-wealth-doesnt-reach-all/


    -

    Although he was very aggressive in his subjective view against that region even last year.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCfjDS0wn3s

    Also he hates Portland. It makes me more interested to visit this area though - Seattle, Portland, Vancouver. All these three very liberal cities.

    Replies: @AP

  575. @Max Demian
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is only one way I am going to work. I have to get paid.
     
    You would never, or have never, volunteered?

    Regardless, that is not my concern here. It is, rather, your flippant response to the detailed information posted by A123 concerning the technical details of embedding an image within a comment. Said information would appear to be quite accurate. At a minimum, he is certainly correct that the reality of the matter can be far more complicated, and far less intuitive, than one would think. Whether or not A123 had, as you asserted, exhibited "autism" in his posts on the topic, I see no reason to suspect that they were reflective of anything less benign than an earnest effort to be helpful on his part. Certainly not, as this reply of yours would seem to suggest, any presumed or implied impositions or demands upon anyone.

    Perhaps I have misread your response, and if that is the case, then I apologize. But it comes across to me as gratuitously hostile and rather petty. (If not also ironic; could one not view your response here as itself revealing, or at least suggestive of a need or a trait that could just as easily be characterized, were one so inclined, as "autistic"?)

    The above provides a segue for me to address some of Barbarossa's comments in this thread. I found many of them not only eminently worthy of commendation, but also to be cogent articulations of views and thinking that, at at a minimum, converge considerably with my own. Among those that ticked both of those boxes were Barbarossa's comments lamenting the increased prevalence of the use of the video format to present information that would be better presented in written form (and previously would have been).

    In Comment #221, Barbarossa wrote:


    As we move toward a semi-post-literate culture more and more content is in video form. Oftentimes I’ll be looking up some headline and I’ll have to pick through several video reports before I finally find a print write up. I can’t be bothered to watch some stupid talking head deliver the info, plus I think that video presentation adds a layer of distraction which makes the actual information less easily digestible. It also makes it easier to inject emotion, which can be manipulative.
     
    The relation to the topic of my present reply? Barbarossa had made the post I quoted from above in reply to the statement, made by a different individual, that,

    Nobody here but cretins like A123 watches videos for information, I’m certainly not going to watch it.
     
    Barbarossa, as an addendum to his earlier comments addressing the matter of videos vs. writing, wrote to A123,

    I should hasten to add that I wasn’t necessarily seconding Yevardian’s shade towards you. It seemed rather mean spirited and unnecessary.
    The sentence just got me headed on a tangent.
     
    As for A123, his commenting persona presents difficulties, and I find myself somewhat conflicted in my reaction to him. On one hand, his categorical, reflexive, cartoon-like statements concerning Islam, and absurdly indiscriminate hurling of epithets such as "low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo", etc., are, frankly, a rank embarrassment. There is no just no way around this. In mentioning it, I neither derive any pleasure nor am motivated by any malice, resentment, or hostility. On the contrary, there is a certain affable, and fundamentally decent quality about A123 that comes through in a number of his comments. I can easily imagine him making a fine, even exemplary neighbor, co-worker or business partner, for example. (Though would I still feel this way were I to ever, personally, perceive myself as being a target of any of A123's vitriolic bigotry?) And, on some matters at least, I have read comments from A123 in which he appeared to be reasonable, perhaps even to make a point or two that is at least worthy of consideration.

    Replies: @A123

    absurdly indiscriminate hurling of epithets such as “low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo“, etc., are, frankly, a rank embarrassment.

    Max,

    I suspect you arrived after @Iffen the Troll went on repeated mouth frothing rampages using the terms “low-IQ & yahoo” to libel myself, Donald Trump, and MAGA supporters. When Iffen apologizes, I will be able to stop using the Iffen term “yahoo” and the Iffen misrepresentation of “low-IQ”.

    Until then, Iffen and his #Bidenistas have earned the honest and accurate terms “low-IQ” and “yahoo”. They are characteristics of those who willingly serve Not-The-President Biden by lying about Trump’s record. They are enthusiastic supporters of Gen. SJW Milley’s humiliating and incompetent Afghanistan exit strategy that killed 17 American troops.

    Is the embarrassment from using too gentle terms like “yahoo” and “low-IQ” for Iffen cheering American lives unnecessarily expended by Not-The-President Biden? What else can I do when confronted by Iffen’s anti-American, dishonest, hate screed?

    I am being as kind as I can to those who attempt to derail rational conversation with obvious departures from reality. Ignoring small problems fertilizes the ground for larger ones later on. There is no upside to ignoring Iffen’s intentionally malicious #NeverTrump deception. It is best to treat the disease now instead of letting it fester.

    I genuinely pity Iffen. And, I forgive Iffen.

    I realize and accept Iffen is doing the best he can with the capabilities he has. However, it is beyond my power to help Iffen until he wants to help himself.

    In mentioning it, I neither derive any pleasure nor am motivated by any malice, resentment, or hostility.

    There are specific life lessons reinforced by the UR website (for good or ill). I previously mentioned them to Barbarossa:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5069236

    — When needled, needle back harder
    — When insulted, insult back harder
    — When TROLLED, troll back harder

    If you do not go out your way to start a fight, there will not be a fight.

    You would be better served by calling out these who started the incivility. Not those of us who are defending ourselves, traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs (e.g. The Ten Commandments), and Main Street America from false accusations.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    — What was the first lesson I ever taught you?, “Never start a fight, but always finish it.” — David Sheridan to John Sheridan — Babylon 5, Episode “Severed Dreams” J. Michael Straczynski

    http://a1bert.kapsi.fi/Quotes/NoRobots/B5/054.html

    • Replies: @iffen
    @A123

    It is very entertaining to observe an Israeli propaganda bot fighting it out with another Jew.

    Replies: @A123

  576. @German_reader
    @songbird

    I agree pretty much with everything with in your comment. But honestly, the attitude of a lot of American mainstream right-wingers is also a huge problem in this regard, and you even see it on this site. Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country's role in WW2, presumably because of their ore deliveries to Germany, and the transit of German troops to Norway (decisions which weren't uncontroversial in WW2 Sweden, but were seen as necessary to protect Swedish interests, and must also be seen against the background of German demands for more wide-ranging concessions, which were rejected). It doesn't seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    Replies: @songbird, @Max Demian, @silviosilver

    Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country’s role in WW2, […]
    It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    The statement you are referring-to, from The Economist: Muslims in Denmark Are a Life-Long Burden on the Budget, Steve Sailer, December 19, 2021]

    I’m guessing that Denmark, unlike Sweden, not having anything to be feel guilty over in their World War II history helps today.

    Might Mr. Sailer have merely been describing— not endorsing— a prevalent mentality?

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @utu
    @Max Demian

    The only things Swedes may feel guilty about, because they have been indoctrinated to feel guilty about it starting in 1950s is what Sailer would himself be very proud of, i.e., the eugenics programs and support for them in the first half of 20th century. Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood. This was pretty clever reversal of the vector of indoctrination. Sweden has more foreign born than Denmark but not significantly more.


    Immigrants in Norway, Sweden and Denmark
    https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_attachment/204333?_ts=1497ab864
     
    Sweden got bad rap in the US because of Sweden's socialist tendencies - the third way, political activism in the movement of non-aligned countries and most importantly the unforgivable sin of support, i.e., trying to be even handed with Palestinians. The influx of immigrants is not a poetic justice but a planned operation to destroy Sweden's uniqueness as the best example that the third way was possible.

    Sailer - self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Thulean Friend, @Max Demian

  577. @Beckow
    @Thulean Friend

    I flew to Arlanda Stockholm airport shortly before corona and took the "express train" to the city, mid-day, mid-week. It broke and stopped about 10 minutes into the journey. The local grumpy transport monkeys herded us - 100's of people - to a dreary bus stop where we waited about 30 minutes for buses to arrive. The buses were so crowded that they looked like we were in Mumbai, many of the people also looked like they just came from there. I struck a conversation with a Swedish girl, turned out she was a barrista on her way to her city center job. She said that trains break all the time, she and her friends lived one hour plus from their jobs in small apartments. They had no hope of ever owning anything. Their lives were pathetic. She knew a shortcut, instead of suffering on the bus, we got off after 20 minutes and switched to the subway. The subway was dirty, menacing and loud - compared to Prague it was really not much.

    I actually liked Sweden, but what you described is inevitable. It is not that much "America" as simply a process of gradual monetizing of all activity - that is what capitalism is. It has some strengths: it pushes people to work harder, although most of that work is increasingly meaningless and unneeded, people selling stuff to each other for invented needs.

    It has to monetize things so profits can be made - that leads to some efficiencies, but in latter stages it destroys all semblance of normal life. Everything is privatised, overly complex, byrocratic, and just unpleasant. It drains life out of most people. Housing is a natural monopoly and thus its cost increases to the point of absurdity - 25-50% of younger peoples incomes. I have been all over the world, but the sadness of the young Swedes is hard to match. But they do have plenty of bananas.

    Replies: @utu

    I wouldn’t expect answer from TF if I were you:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-78/#comment-3256925
    Does anyone take Beckow seriously? He is a mentally ill person.

    And TF is right. What you write here about Sweden and Stockholm metro in particular is a perfect example of the fact that you are unable to experience reality without overloading interference of your pettiness, smallness, resentments and hatreds. It’s a pity that for Slovakia that such an ugly character like you will be forever associated with Slovakia for those who had misfortune of knowing you from Karlin’s blog.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @utu

    You are projecting or still chasing the imaginary goats in your mind. I never expect an answer, I accurately described what I observed and experienced when I visited Stockholm - it happened exactly that way. You assign "pettiness" to it, but the truth is always in the details, we get closer to it by observing what happens and by talking to ordinary people. It has nothing to do with my country that has its own share of issues.

    Your bitterness shows, you try to hold on to the myths that nourish you. You are unable to ever question them - very similar to AP's infantile obsession with Habsburgs and Lviv's past. It is a wakanda in your minds - most elderly Westerners are unable to change their spots: so Stockholm is perfect and Prague has no bananas. Right.

  578. @Max Demian
    Gentlemen:

    1.) Further down in this comment, below the MORE break, I have placed a direct URL to a high-resolution .gif image file. If the image itself displays within the comment, we will know that said image format can be added to .jpg and .png as those that will embed. The image has some relation, at least tangentially, to topics and sentiments that were mentioned in a number of comemnts in the thread.

    2.) I have utilized the MORE break to prevent the image from loading by default-- not because of any concern regarding the suitability or acceptability of the image itself (which is utterly innocuous and inoffensive), but rather, solely as a courtesy; in order to avoid imposing a potentially unappreciated expense of bandwidth, and time/page-unwieldiness upon the reader.

    3.) I shall now take the liberty, having already made the segue, of reiterating and further following-up on the appeal for more liberal use of the MORE tag that I had made late in the previous thread (#170).

    It seems, not only that the MORE tag is used fairly rarely at this particular blog, but when it is used, it is placed after no more than a mere few lines of text (and often before any content whatsoever). Does anyone else find this all-or-nothing, absolutist approach toward use of the MORE tag odd and counterintuitve? Contrast it with the markedly different approach toward said usage that both I as well as any number of other individuals I have seen at Unz take. Namely, attempting to achieve an ideal balance; to place the break after enough content to give the reader enough of an indication of what to expect beyond the break in order to decide whether or not to load it. Does this approach not make a lot more sense?

    Now, without any further ado, here is the image.

    https://static.wixstatic.com/media/78b7db_feebe33cdc7a47caac25a5ca2dd4840d~mv2_d_4961_3508_s_4_2.gif/v1/fill/w_980,h_692,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/78b7db_feebe33cdc7a47caac25a5ca2dd4840d~mv2_d_4961_3508_s_4_2.gif

    Source of image, for context and further info:
    https://www.extension77.co/brisbane-boys-college

    Replies: @A123, @sher singh

    .gif image file. If the image itself displays within the comment, we will know that said image format can be added to .jpg and .png

    GIF, JPG, and PNG are known good. I belive TIF is also valid.

    Mr. Unz was kind enough to add vector graphics SVG for me.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/#comment-5075659
    __

    For video — Multiple YouTube styles are available.

    RUMBLE provides embed links that look like this:

    https://rumble.com/embed/vnv7a6/?pub=4

    Remove the “?” and subsequent characters, using only the bold portion to generate an embed.
    ___

    Note: All embeds, both image and video, are suppressed by BLOCKQUOTE. Separate any links you would like to embed and place them after the quote.

    2.) I have utilized the MORE break to prevent the image from loading by default… in order to avoid imposing a potentially unappreciated expense of bandwidth, and time/page-unwieldiness upon the reader.

    I am not sure the [MORE] actually does this. There does not seem to be a loading delay when the tag is opened.

    3.) I shall now take the liberty, having already made the segue, of reiterating and further following-up on the appeal for more liberal use of the MORE tag that I had made late in the previous thread (#170).

    There is no group consensus on [MORE], so there is no social convention to govern norms about usage. It probably should be applied more frequently, but Where?, Why?, and When?

    For my occasional 😁Open Thread Humor 😂 round ups I only leave the top 2 or 3 images exposed before [MORE]. But, there is no rule for that. I do not want to chew up too many vertical inches, so it is solely my personal judgement call. I also try to cover animated GIF’s with [MORE] (though occasionally forget).

    Embedded Twitter can be unpredictable. Sometimes they are much taller than anticipated.
    ____

    While I like the thought… AK’s blog is gone and these Open Threads are down to a partial collection of lingering commenters. I suspect you will have little luck encouraging a new social compact given the status of this venue.

    If AK changes his mind and returns, all bets are off. However, that seems exceedingly unlikely.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    • Thanks: Max Demian
  579. @Max Demian
    @German_reader


    Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country’s role in WW2, [...]
    It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.
     
    The statement you are referring-to, from The Economist: Muslims in Denmark Are a Life-Long Burden on the Budget, Steve Sailer, December 19, 2021]

    I’m guessing that Denmark, unlike Sweden, not having anything to be feel guilty over in their World War II history helps today.
     
    Might Mr. Sailer have merely been describing-- not endorsing-- a prevalent mentality?

    Replies: @utu

    The only things Swedes may feel guilty about, because they have been indoctrinated to feel guilty about it starting in 1950s is what Sailer would himself be very proud of, i.e., the eugenics programs and support for them in the first half of 20th century. Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood. This was pretty clever reversal of the vector of indoctrination. Sweden has more foreign born than Denmark but not significantly more.

    Immigrants in Norway, Sweden and Denmark
    https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_attachment/204333?_ts=1497ab864

    Sweden got bad rap in the US because of Sweden’s socialist tendencies – the third way, political activism in the movement of non-aligned countries and most importantly the unforgivable sin of support, i.e., trying to be even handed with Palestinians. The influx of immigrants is not a poetic justice but a planned operation to destroy Sweden’s uniqueness as the best example that the third way was possible.

    Sailer – self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Pericles
    @utu


    Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood.

     

    Somewhat interestingly, I can't recall ever hearing that line but during a recent argument about immigration, an old relative brought exactly that up. I thought it ridiculous but it seems like it was part of the propaganda back then.

    Full acceptance of multicultural immigration was, however, brought about by a certain David Schwarz who came by from Poland for treatment for various diseases incurred while camping and, entirely randomly I'm sure, happened to get the largest paper in Sweden as a platform for his articles.

    , @Thulean Friend
    @utu

    I read quite a lot about the eugenics program both in textbooks and in the media growing up. There were also attempts to push Sweden's neutrality during WWII as sinful, especially by the Bonnier media apparatus, but I felt it was less successful since there was and remains a broad social consensus that Sweden did the right thing given our precarious circumstances at that time.

    What I did not read about, however, was Sweden's colonial empire (if it can be described as such). This is something I've noticed picking up bigly in the 2010s.

    In general, I find these "shame strategies" to be lacking. There are perfectly rational reasons to have a liberal immigration policy, so long as it is regulated and aimed at maximising the welfare of the country.

    Sweden's refugee-dominated migration was initially quite successful insofar as it attracted elites (Chile, Iran etc) and even groups which rapidly assimilated into the mainstream (ex-Yugos). It wasn't really until the late 1990s and early 2000s that it became clear that such a refugee-dominated migration policy was foolish.

    Unlike Denmark, Sweden did not manage to quickly turn the situation around in the mid-2000s and basically lost 15 years. That has now changed. Our refugee policies are now much more restrictive than they were even a few years and the direction of travel is to get ever more strict, so the process is not yet complete. Work-related migration is now clearly dominant, and will become more so as times goes on.

    If I were to speculate as to why there was such a divergence between the two countries despite a similar starting point, I think some of this differential has to do with the fact that a large part of our media elite are made up of Polish Jews and their descendants who have recent memories of being refugees (e.g. the anti-Semitic purges of Poland in 1968), and thus drove a very hard bargain for as long as they could. They've clearly lost that public debate, but they probably dragged out the process for much longer than would have happened in their absence (we'd likely have followed the Danish example much faster).

    Contra stereotypes, it's fairly easy to migrate to Denmark from non-Western countries in terms of national restrictions. The only real restrictions are placed on your individual skillset, which is fair and reasonable.

    , @Max Demian
    @utu


    Sailer – self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.
     
    Also from utu, Comment #578

    a perfect example of the fact that you are unable to experience reality without overloading interference of your pettiness, smallness, resentments and hatreds. It’s a pity that for Slovakia that such an ugly character like you will be forever associated with Slovakia for those who had misfortune of knowing you from Karlin’s blog.
     
    Might you be demading too much of others? After all, you are obviously an exemplar of clear, unbiased perception of objective reality; as well as of kindness, graciousness, humility, and forbearance. How reasonable is it, though, to expect such refinement and nobility of character from men less exceptional than yourself?

    Also, not to be pedantic but was fact really the correct word to use in that first sentence of yours that I quoted from above? Was what you went-on to articulate not, rather, a subjective opinion and characterization?

  580. sher singh says:
    @Max Demian
    Gentlemen:

    1.) Further down in this comment, below the MORE break, I have placed a direct URL to a high-resolution .gif image file. If the image itself displays within the comment, we will know that said image format can be added to .jpg and .png as those that will embed. The image has some relation, at least tangentially, to topics and sentiments that were mentioned in a number of comemnts in the thread.

    2.) I have utilized the MORE break to prevent the image from loading by default-- not because of any concern regarding the suitability or acceptability of the image itself (which is utterly innocuous and inoffensive), but rather, solely as a courtesy; in order to avoid imposing a potentially unappreciated expense of bandwidth, and time/page-unwieldiness upon the reader.

    3.) I shall now take the liberty, having already made the segue, of reiterating and further following-up on the appeal for more liberal use of the MORE tag that I had made late in the previous thread (#170).

    It seems, not only that the MORE tag is used fairly rarely at this particular blog, but when it is used, it is placed after no more than a mere few lines of text (and often before any content whatsoever). Does anyone else find this all-or-nothing, absolutist approach toward use of the MORE tag odd and counterintuitve? Contrast it with the markedly different approach toward said usage that both I as well as any number of other individuals I have seen at Unz take. Namely, attempting to achieve an ideal balance; to place the break after enough content to give the reader enough of an indication of what to expect beyond the break in order to decide whether or not to load it. Does this approach not make a lot more sense?

    Now, without any further ado, here is the image.

    https://static.wixstatic.com/media/78b7db_feebe33cdc7a47caac25a5ca2dd4840d~mv2_d_4961_3508_s_4_2.gif/v1/fill/w_980,h_692,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/78b7db_feebe33cdc7a47caac25a5ca2dd4840d~mv2_d_4961_3508_s_4_2.gif

    Source of image, for context and further info:
    https://www.extension77.co/brisbane-boys-college

    Replies: @A123, @sher singh

    More is used when Karlin doesn’t like your comment or you’re engaging in off-topic trolling.
    Part of the joy of this forum is the lack of low-bandwidth troll farms||

    Please help keep it this way by indulging in the posting of high-res imgs, twitter posts, reddit threads, etc.
    You are all doing a public service by NOT following Max Demian’s instructions, as he tries to create a GREAT BI-FURCATION on this forum by separating the intelligent from the retards||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Max Demian
    @sher singh


    Part of the joy of this forum is the lack of low-bandwidth troll farms||

    Please help keep it this way by indulging in the posting of high-res imgs, twitter posts, reddit threads, etc.
    You are all doing a public service by NOT following Max Demian’s instructions, as he tries to create a GREAT BI-FURCATION on this forum by separating the intelligent from the retards||
     

    Hmm...

    sher singh says:
    December 20, 2021 at 6:23 am GMT

    NERD, stop. Also murder is based but gayness is not|| Your nerdtales & argument have 0 IRL impact.
    The 3 comment per hour rule was made for niggas like you, r u opening gas station in QC or maine?
     

    While not quite sure just what else to make of you, that you are a class act, bar none, could hardly be any clearer.

    Replies: @sher singh

  581. @A123
    @Max Demian


    absurdly indiscriminate hurling of epithets such as “low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo“, etc., are, frankly, a rank embarrassment.
     
    Max,

    I suspect you arrived after @Iffen the Troll went on repeated mouth frothing rampages using the terms "low-IQ & yahoo" to libel myself, Donald Trump, and MAGA supporters. When Iffen apologizes, I will be able to stop using the Iffen term "yahoo" and the Iffen misrepresentation of "low-IQ".

    Until then, Iffen and his #Bidenistas have earned the honest and accurate terms "low-IQ" and "yahoo". They are characteristics of those who willingly serve Not-The-President Biden by lying about Trump's record. They are enthusiastic supporters of Gen. SJW Milley's humiliating and incompetent Afghanistan exit strategy that killed 17 American troops.

    Is the embarrassment from using too gentle terms like "yahoo" and "low-IQ" for Iffen cheering American lives unnecessarily expended by Not-The-President Biden? What else can I do when confronted by Iffen's anti-American, dishonest, hate screed?

    I am being as kind as I can to those who attempt to derail rational conversation with obvious departures from reality. Ignoring small problems fertilizes the ground for larger ones later on. There is no upside to ignoring Iffen's intentionally malicious #NeverTrump deception. It is best to treat the disease now instead of letting it fester.

    I genuinely pity Iffen. And, I forgive Iffen.

    I realize and accept Iffen is doing the best he can with the capabilities he has. However, it is beyond my power to help Iffen until he wants to help himself.


    In mentioning it, I neither derive any pleasure nor am motivated by any malice, resentment, or hostility.
     
    There are specific life lessons reinforced by the UR website (for good or ill). I previously mentioned them to Barbarossa:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-171/#comment-5069236

    — When needled, needle back harder
    — When insulted, insult back harder
    — When TROLLED, troll back harder

    If you do not go out your way to start a fight, there will not be a fight.

    You would be better served by calling out these who started the incivility. Not those of us who are defending ourselves, traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs (e.g. The Ten Commandments), and Main Street America from false accusations.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    -- What was the first lesson I ever taught you?, "Never start a fight, but always finish it." -- David Sheridan to John Sheridan -- Babylon 5, Episode "Severed Dreams" J. Michael Straczynski

    http://a1bert.kapsi.fi/Quotes/NoRobots/B5/054.html

    Replies: @iffen

    It is very entertaining to observe an Israeli propaganda bot fighting it out with another Jew.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @iffen

    You accidentally responded to the wrong comment.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

  582. @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Sweden is becoming America

     

    Isn't the dream of Sweden, a synthesis of capitalism and socialism. For example, Ikea is the greatest example of an affordable mass culture.

    When the BBC reports about Sweden in 1963, much of the English focus is about the extreme wealth of country allowing for capitalism to secure the hopes of socialist mass society.
    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=572279669961124

    This is closer to Marx's communism, which will be the final stage of the wealthiest capitalist society, than the communist societies of the 20th century.


    Think of all bohemians

     

    Our most famous and tragic figures of opera
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=260oRLBYLhE

    Replies: @Pericles

    Isn’t the dream of Sweden, a synthesis of capitalism and socialism. For example, Ikea is the greatest example of an affordable mass culture.

    As the old saw goes, Per-Albin built folkhemmet and Ingvar furnished it. (Per-Albin Hansson, long-time Minister of State.)

    It should also be remembered that in the 1970s the state foolishly, and out of greed, drove Ikea out of the country. One of the several poisonous legacies of the Palme era that inspired the reforms of the 1980s.

  583. @Dmitry
    There is an interesting documentary about why New York's new residential skyscrapers are half empty, released by "The B1M" on YouTube last week.

    Their argument is that bourgeois capitalism is increasing the liquidity of real estate, and therefore constructing the architecture of the apartments to behave like sealed, fungible, bank vaults in the sky. (Their argument is presented at point 10:00 in the video)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wehsz38P74g

    They also discuss the situation with Zombie urbanism which has been discussed here before. This is where the wealthy houses of the cities become half empty as they used as sealed assets by the international investors.

    This conversion of housing to sealed, liquid assets, doesn't become completely zombie though, as often the children of international investors are flowing between these assets and contributing a kind of touristic cafe culture. E.g. how London becomes a parade of supercars from the Arabian Gulf states every summer.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    This is something that can be easily avoided by a Georgist land tax. Astral Codex Ten (for Scott Alexander’s disdain of rightoids) has a series of guest posts on Georgism.

  584. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    ghost towns in Russia
     
    Alarge part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones.

    Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places.

    This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.

    A lot of the settlement in Russia had been in communist times, artificially encouraged and without diverse industry. After lifting limits of internal migration, it is inevitable that there will be some re-shifting of populations. However, the vast scale of population re-shifting and population flood of young people into the large cities is at crazy and dystopian scale, although profitable for the construction.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

    There’s some movement of Russian anti-centralists in the opposite direction since COVID, not unlike the much biggest one in the US.

  585. @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    He looks okay to me. "Rescuing St. Nicholas Around the World" is trying to reclaim St. Nicholas from the woke Santa Claus of the West or Did Moroz in the U.S.S.R. Like trying to put Christ back into Christmas.

    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/m/mykolay.jpgChristmas.

    Several European countries each has its own chapter. Check it out, it's a great idea:


    https://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/s/svaty-vs-did.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Yellowface Anon

    Ded Moroz was both a “pagan” character that acquired Orthodox characteristics under Tsarist times, and a secularization of St. Nicholas similar to Americanized Santa under Soviet times.

    Ded Moroz should have a bit more religious symbolism, but in himself it’s good, because he isn’t Christian in the first place. St. Nicholas should also co-exist as a religious alternative, especially in Catholic/Uniate countries.

    Santa & Ded Moroz should be kicked out of Muslim/Buddhist/Confucian countries, including capitalist East Asia. But even tho China is trying to deemphasize Christmas, I’m worried about Chinese 11/11 and 12/12 which are purely deracinated consumerist gimmicks by online retailers.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yellowface Anon


    I’m worried about Chinese 11/11 and 12/12 which are purely deracinated consumerist gimmicks by online retailers.
     
    How is Veterans' Day a gimmick. We should celebrate it here in the U.S.

    For some reason it keeps vanishing from our calendars....
    ___

    Instead "Juneteenth" is now an officially recognized holiday due to The Blue Coup and the horror of Not-The-President Biden's illegitimate regime.

    Notice the choice of colors Red, Black, Green, (the text) White.

     
    https://static.wixstatic.com/media/392c58_a35e3f14ad864ab8a684bb3b324b7d23~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_455,h_455/392c58_a35e3f14ad864ab8a684bb3b324b7d23~mv2.png
     

    What flag uses those colors? And, includes the Black Panther (now BLM) movement fist logo?

     
    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~84AAOSwAUBeBhIa/s-l300.jpg
     

    I am not making this up. Items explicitly connecting Ethnicity & Islamic items are available for purchase by SJW Muslims via online sales. Sadly, this connection is real, not a consumerist gimmick.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
  586. Being old enough to remember headlines about USA inevitable oil&gas peak at first decade of 2k and Qatar scrambling to build additional capacities to be able to satisfy future US demand, this still looks absolutely mind boggling even now for me:

    Dec 21 (Reuters) – The United States is set to become the world’s biggest liquefied natural gas (LNG) exporter in 2022, surpassing Qatar and Australia, and may hold that title for years to come.

    In a year when China and other large economies in Europe and Asia scrambled to source enough supply for heating and power generation, the United States was sitting on a bevy of supply – one that will grow in coming years.

    Global LNG demand has hit record highs each year since 2015, due mostly to surging demand in China and the rest of Asia. Much of that global appetite has been met by steadily rising U.S. LNG exports, which have reached new records every year since 2016 and is poised to continue in 2022.

    The U.S. Energy Information Administration projects U.S. LNG exports will reach 11.5 billion cubic feet per day (bcfd) in 2022. That would account for roughly 22% of expected world LNG demand of 53.3 bcfd next year, according to analysts at Goldman Sachs and would outpace both Australia and Qatar, the two largest exporters at present

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-be-worlds-biggest-lng-exporter-2022-2021-12-21/

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death

    It is not quite as impressive once the units are sorted out.
    -- 360 × bcfd = BcF/yr
    -- 48.7 Bcf/year(gas) = 1.379 bcm/year (gas)
    Thus U.S. LNG output is: 11.5 bcfd × 360 × (1.379/48.7) = 117 bcm/yr

    World demand for gas is ~4,000 bcm/yr.

    U.S. LNG is only ~ 3% of global gas usage.

    Ship transported LNG cannot compete with pipelines on price. The energy cost for liquefaction is high and the conversion back to gas is a serious freezing hazard.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  587. @utu
    @Max Demian

    The only things Swedes may feel guilty about, because they have been indoctrinated to feel guilty about it starting in 1950s is what Sailer would himself be very proud of, i.e., the eugenics programs and support for them in the first half of 20th century. Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood. This was pretty clever reversal of the vector of indoctrination. Sweden has more foreign born than Denmark but not significantly more.


    Immigrants in Norway, Sweden and Denmark
    https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_attachment/204333?_ts=1497ab864
     
    Sweden got bad rap in the US because of Sweden's socialist tendencies - the third way, political activism in the movement of non-aligned countries and most importantly the unforgivable sin of support, i.e., trying to be even handed with Palestinians. The influx of immigrants is not a poetic justice but a planned operation to destroy Sweden's uniqueness as the best example that the third way was possible.

    Sailer - self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Thulean Friend, @Max Demian

    Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood.

    Somewhat interestingly, I can’t recall ever hearing that line but during a recent argument about immigration, an old relative brought exactly that up. I thought it ridiculous but it seems like it was part of the propaganda back then.

    Full acceptance of multicultural immigration was, however, brought about by a certain David Schwarz who came by from Poland for treatment for various diseases incurred while camping and, entirely randomly I’m sure, happened to get the largest paper in Sweden as a platform for his articles.

  588. @iffen
    @A123

    It is very entertaining to observe an Israeli propaganda bot fighting it out with another Jew.

    Replies: @A123

    You accidentally responded to the wrong comment.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    • Troll: iffen
  589. @Yellowface Anon
    @Mr. Hack

    Ded Moroz was both a "pagan" character that acquired Orthodox characteristics under Tsarist times, and a secularization of St. Nicholas similar to Americanized Santa under Soviet times.

    Ded Moroz should have a bit more religious symbolism, but in himself it's good, because he isn't Christian in the first place. St. Nicholas should also co-exist as a religious alternative, especially in Catholic/Uniate countries.

    Santa & Ded Moroz should be kicked out of Muslim/Buddhist/Confucian countries, including capitalist East Asia. But even tho China is trying to deemphasize Christmas, I'm worried about Chinese 11/11 and 12/12 which are purely deracinated consumerist gimmicks by online retailers.

    Replies: @A123

    I’m worried about Chinese 11/11 and 12/12 which are purely deracinated consumerist gimmicks by online retailers.

    How is Veterans’ Day a gimmick. We should celebrate it here in the U.S.

    For some reason it keeps vanishing from our calendars….
    ___

    Instead “Juneteenth” is now an officially recognized holiday due to The Blue Coup and the horror of Not-The-President Biden’s illegitimate regime.

    Notice the choice of colors Red, Black, Green, (the text) White.

     

     

    What flag uses those colors? And, includes the Black Panther (now BLM) movement fist logo?

     

     

    I am not making this up. Items explicitly connecting Ethnicity & Islamic items are available for purchase by SJW Muslims via online sales. Sadly, this connection is real, not a consumerist gimmick.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  590. @sudden death
    Being old enough to remember headlines about USA inevitable oil&gas peak at first decade of 2k and Qatar scrambling to build additional capacities to be able to satisfy future US demand, this still looks absolutely mind boggling even now for me:

    Dec 21 (Reuters) - The United States is set to become the world's biggest liquefied natural gas (LNG) exporter in 2022, surpassing Qatar and Australia, and may hold that title for years to come.

    In a year when China and other large economies in Europe and Asia scrambled to source enough supply for heating and power generation, the United States was sitting on a bevy of supply - one that will grow in coming years.

    Global LNG demand has hit record highs each year since 2015, due mostly to surging demand in China and the rest of Asia. Much of that global appetite has been met by steadily rising U.S. LNG exports, which have reached new records every year since 2016 and is poised to continue in 2022.

    The U.S. Energy Information Administration projects U.S. LNG exports will reach 11.5 billion cubic feet per day (bcfd) in 2022. That would account for roughly 22% of expected world LNG demand of 53.3 bcfd next year, according to analysts at Goldman Sachs and would outpace both Australia and Qatar, the two largest exporters at present
     

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-be-worlds-biggest-lng-exporter-2022-2021-12-21/

    Replies: @A123

    It is not quite as impressive once the units are sorted out.
    — 360 × bcfd = BcF/yr
    — 48.7 Bcf/year(gas) = 1.379 bcm/year (gas)
    Thus U.S. LNG output is: 11.5 bcfd × 360 × (1.379/48.7) = 117 bcm/yr

    World demand for gas is ~4,000 bcm/yr.

    U.S. LNG is only ~ 3% of global gas usage.

    Ship transported LNG cannot compete with pipelines on price. The energy cost for liquefaction is high and the conversion back to gas is a serious freezing hazard.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  591. @AP
    @songbird


    Not in Paraguay, where the Jesuits taught the natives how to build beautiful baroque churches and how to make beautiful music.

    Paraguay is about the same distance from the equator as Mexico.
     
    So? The population, living in the forests, was much less dense than in urban Mexico or Peru.

    The churches are just a function of population density.
     
    They are a function of treating the Natives humanely by teaching them and helping them, rather than exterminating them.

    In fact, in Mexico there is more Euro heritage in the north than in the south.
     
    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude but were controlled by a much more cruel Anglo Protestant people who exterminated or drove off the Natives rather than teach them how to build beautiful churches.

    According to you this would seem to mean that the Spanish Catholics massacred more of them there.
     
    Nonsense. It would depend on pre-contact population.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.
    Yet Quebec is further from the equator than New England, and has three times more Natives. Latitude no longer matters?

    Of course, I don’t know that watching real life murder shows damages society, though I do somewhat suspect that it does. Based on the way that it has become such a topic for fiction, which strikes me as somewhat degenerate, especially, when it often involves some level of gore.
     
    Probably, though not nearly as degenerate as actual mass murder. Women tend to watch crime shows (some weird interest in predator-prey dynamic - men tend to watch action movies). A society in which women watch true crime stories is less degenerate than one where women work in concentration camps.

    But referencing Hitler more than we reference God definitely strikes me as being damaging to society. (BTW, I wonder which you have referenced more here?)
     
    We tend to discuss history more than religion here. Which is why our posting histories indicates that both of us have referenced Hitler more than God.

    "Not sure how the two necessarily go together. Nazis don’t seem to be problem in Ireland."

    I am surprised you would say that. Aren’t you fighting them in America, where they were also never a problem?
     
    Who is fighting them in America? Not me. Nazis are despicable, but not a problem.

    Replies: @songbird

    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude

    Mississippi was a colony of Catholic France and Spain. Longer than Quebec.

    [MORE]

    Anyway, you are taking the coast of California with a Mediterranean climate (where the great, ancient civilizations flourished in the West) and giant bays, and comparing it to Mississippi, the blackest state, where Yellow Fever and Plasmodium falciparum raged?

    I’ll tell you what. I might be impressed if you find a Baroque musical piece written by a native in a giant Cathedral in the 1500s, at the same distance from the equator as Boston. It is actually a comparison that would favor you, and I’ll tell you why. Potatoes were domesticated in the mountains, and so developed and were adapted to many ecological niches, unlike corn.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.

    You are strawmanning me. The arguments I’ve made are a lot more nuanced than that. They include climate, soil type, disease dynamics, facility of ingress (poor in Quebec and Paraguay, good in Massachusetts Bay), and most importantly size.

    8x as big, is not just a little bigger, but a lot bigger. Need I add that we are comparing imaginary quantities? That injun is a semi-fictive category, and that there are strange dynamics involved in it? (Divide your Indians by 2, by adding a white parent, and more as like you get more Indians) That it is not a scientific comparison, which would be comparing genes, rather than people claiming to be Injuns.

    We tend to discuss history more than religion here. Which is why our posting histories indicates that both of us have referenced Hitler more than God.

    I’m not sure it is history, if we we try to create moral hierarchies of peoples, and sermonize on the putative evil that people’s ancestors committed, while lionizing what we see as our own group or ethnicity.

    You should cut the fat, and reduce your moral argument. What is it? Should Amerinds be given more sovereignty? Jews more money and power? Do you think Bible reading is wrong? Or only The King James Bible? Or do you think Anglos are evil, by nature?

    Who is fighting them in America? Not me.

    We haven’t had a war in a while. Moralizing rhetoric is how we fight now, and, at least for the Left, it seems obviously more effective than war, which makes sense as a lot of their power comes from women, gays, and soy boys, not to mention, third worlders.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude

    Mississippi was a colony of Catholic France and Spain. Longer than Quebec.
     
    Just a narrow strip along the coast. Somehow there were beautiful missions in Texas and the Southwest but none where the Anglos were. What happened to the Cherokees in Georgia and North Carolina? Seems they largely tried to civilize themselves before the Anglos murdered them and forced them off their lands.

    Anyway, you are taking the coast of California with a Mediterranean climate (where the great, ancient civilizations flourished in the West) and giant bays, and comparing it to Mississippi, the blackest state
     
    You can compare TX and NM to Arkansas. And what happened when the Anglos came to California? Indian massacres, naturally.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.

    You are strawmanning me.
     
    You were emphasizing that - "Latitude strikes again. " etc.

    They include climate, soil type, disease dynamics, facility of ingress (poor in Quebec and Paraguay, good in Massachusetts Bay), and most importantly size.
     
    But didn't you say that California benefited from its bays? It seems that you try to pick and choose whatever differences may support your point, changing them as they become inconvenient. Latitude matters, until it doesn't. Easy access to bays matter, until they don't. If there were Spaniards had colonized Arkansas and Georgia and built missions there, but none in a New Mexico settled buy Anglos, you would make the excuse that NM was too arid.

    8x as big, is not just a little bigger, but a lot bigger.
     
    But we were not talking about the vast tundra of Quebec inhabited by Inuit, but about the parts of Quebec with a temperate climate where the French and Indians lived. These parts aren't much larger nor different from New England, yet Quebec has 3 times more Indians than New England.

    You also chose not to address the well documented large number of Indian massacres in New England, compared to few right next door in Quebec.

    You should cut the fat, and reduce your moral argument. What is it? Should Amerinds be given more sovereignty? Jews more money and power? Do you think Bible reading is wrong? Or only The King James Bible? Or do you think Anglos are evil, by nature?
     
    Protestsantism, as a heresy, has a lot of evil in it, and this is reflected in their negative role in history, including in the way that Protestants have generally treated Natives (and Irish).

    You seem to view this as somehow delegitimizing the United States (it is not, because the alternative to the traditional USA is something worse) so you are motivated to make excuses for or covering up obvious past evils by the murderous Calvinist heretics.

    Replies: @songbird

  592. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    ghost towns in Russia
     
    Alarge part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones.

    Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places.

    This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.

    A lot of the settlement in Russia had been in communist times, artificially encouraged and without diverse industry. After lifting limits of internal migration, it is inevitable that there will be some re-shifting of populations. However, the vast scale of population re-shifting and population flood of young people into the large cities is at crazy and dystopian scale, although profitable for the construction.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

    A large part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones. Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places. This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.

    Not a very glowing, optimistic picture of Russia. On the contrary, quite gloomy and dystopic. Cheer up, because of Ukraine’s very menacing provocative moves on Russia’s border, Uncle Vasia will be able to create yet another war, blame it all on the West, and get the Russian mindset away from the domestic s___hole that you’ve described.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes the situation is probably not so unfair to call "halfway dystopian", for many of these young people with median salaries and who come from areas with median location-value, that have to internally immigrate to the largest cities.

    On one hand, postsoviet Russia has still much affordable housing. But on the other hand, median salaries are low enough that it isn't that "value for money" - to buy the apartment can still cost median income people decades of savings.

    This situation replicates processes of European countries, but with less cushion, across larger distances , more extreme swings, more open exploitation in housing construction.

    New housing supply is provided, so that there is no "housing crisis" in Russia. Even with low salary to median salary, the people can afford to buy.

    But as "you get what you pay for", often products that is being constructed for vast demand for new housing created by internal immigration, is hardly regulated and allows the construction interest to be proudly opened by governors, priests and oligarchs in empty fields.

    -

    So, for example, if you look at such an infamous new 10th district constructed in Samara for one hundred thousand people, which median income people can buy a shiny new apartment in a low rise building. It's the 21st century version, of the "William Levitt" surburbs which were constructed 1950s America.

    This is the district named after the deputy Vladimir Koshelev who is one of Zhirinovsky's politicians.

    They construct your new apartments in such "traditional architecture" and without high rise (so it is not a typical anthill).

    But when they try to give them an "American experience", it repeats the "traditional buildings" a hundred times identical, in an empty field, without infrastructure.


    https://i.imgur.com/DYgGwB6.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/ADokbnL.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/mKJfacQ.jpg

    Then instead of giving useful infrastructure, they build the same church (this is like the standard identical church which oligarch's construction companies produce everywhere).

    https://i.imgur.com/O7TbIWK.jpg

    Another faces of the state to watch over you.

    https://i.imgur.com/xPF0u8I.jpg



    Add some community events.

    https://i.imgur.com/u0zrIlK.jpg


    And then the tank at the entrance.

    https://i.imgur.com/3BocHTK.jpg


    -

    So people like AaronB (or Buddha and Jesus) can criticize us for being "materialistic" and "caring about money". This is an acceptable to criticize our culture for this.

    But if you have to internally immigrate and have a median salary in Russia, then this is where you might be able to afford to live in.

    A spiritually strong person can live there, without viewing it negatively. But for the psychologically average, vulnerable person, it can be stressful. For the spritually less developed among us, you need enough money to insulate yourself from these realities.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

  593. @utu
    @Beckow

    I wouldn't expect answer from TF if I were you:


    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-78/#comment-3256925
    Does anyone take Beckow seriously? He is a mentally ill person.
     
    And TF is right. What you write here about Sweden and Stockholm metro in particular is a perfect example of the fact that you are unable to experience reality without overloading interference of your pettiness, smallness, resentments and hatreds. It's a pity that for Slovakia that such an ugly character like you will be forever associated with Slovakia for those who had misfortune of knowing you from Karlin's blog.

    Replies: @Beckow

    You are projecting or still chasing the imaginary goats in your mind. I never expect an answer, I accurately described what I observed and experienced when I visited Stockholm – it happened exactly that way. You assign “pettiness” to it, but the truth is always in the details, we get closer to it by observing what happens and by talking to ordinary people. It has nothing to do with my country that has its own share of issues.

    Your bitterness shows, you try to hold on to the myths that nourish you. You are unable to ever question them – very similar to AP’s infantile obsession with Habsburgs and Lviv’s past. It is a wakanda in your minds – most elderly Westerners are unable to change their spots: so Stockholm is perfect and Prague has no bananas. Right.

  594. Been thinking again about why the English changed to using “Germany”, and by now the answer seems pretty obvious to me: the Protestant Reformation.

    I think Henry VIII probably gutted priestly schools. His son introduced a sort of free national grammar school. Wouldn’t surprise me, if they were reading Caesar, which, of course, uses “Germania.” And the printing press helped make this possible.

    Possibly some secondary factors. Insular country. Didn’t neighbor Germany. Might have been the most centralized state in Europe. Had a small elite class, the Normans.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Maybe it's the English calling people from the Netherlands Dutch (which is the way Netherlanders call "German" - Duits).

    Replies: @songbird

  595. @utu
    @Max Demian

    The only things Swedes may feel guilty about, because they have been indoctrinated to feel guilty about it starting in 1950s is what Sailer would himself be very proud of, i.e., the eugenics programs and support for them in the first half of 20th century. Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood. This was pretty clever reversal of the vector of indoctrination. Sweden has more foreign born than Denmark but not significantly more.


    Immigrants in Norway, Sweden and Denmark
    https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_attachment/204333?_ts=1497ab864
     
    Sweden got bad rap in the US because of Sweden's socialist tendencies - the third way, political activism in the movement of non-aligned countries and most importantly the unforgivable sin of support, i.e., trying to be even handed with Palestinians. The influx of immigrants is not a poetic justice but a planned operation to destroy Sweden's uniqueness as the best example that the third way was possible.

    Sailer - self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Thulean Friend, @Max Demian

    I read quite a lot about the eugenics program both in textbooks and in the media growing up. There were also attempts to push Sweden’s neutrality during WWII as sinful, especially by the Bonnier media apparatus, but I felt it was less successful since there was and remains a broad social consensus that Sweden did the right thing given our precarious circumstances at that time.

    What I did not read about, however, was Sweden’s colonial empire (if it can be described as such). This is something I’ve noticed picking up bigly in the 2010s.

    In general, I find these “shame strategies” to be lacking. There are perfectly rational reasons to have a liberal immigration policy, so long as it is regulated and aimed at maximising the welfare of the country.

    Sweden’s refugee-dominated migration was initially quite successful insofar as it attracted elites (Chile, Iran etc) and even groups which rapidly assimilated into the mainstream (ex-Yugos). It wasn’t really until the late 1990s and early 2000s that it became clear that such a refugee-dominated migration policy was foolish.

    Unlike Denmark, Sweden did not manage to quickly turn the situation around in the mid-2000s and basically lost 15 years. That has now changed. Our refugee policies are now much more restrictive than they were even a few years and the direction of travel is to get ever more strict, so the process is not yet complete. Work-related migration is now clearly dominant, and will become more so as times goes on.

    If I were to speculate as to why there was such a divergence between the two countries despite a similar starting point, I think some of this differential has to do with the fact that a large part of our media elite are made up of Polish Jews and their descendants who have recent memories of being refugees (e.g. the anti-Semitic purges of Poland in 1968), and thus drove a very hard bargain for as long as they could. They’ve clearly lost that public debate, but they probably dragged out the process for much longer than would have happened in their absence (we’d likely have followed the Danish example much faster).

    Contra stereotypes, it’s fairly easy to migrate to Denmark from non-Western countries in terms of national restrictions. The only real restrictions are placed on your individual skillset, which is fair and reasonable.

  596. Since Dmitry has brought up the Greek island Ikaria, which is known for long-lived people, I have heard of some Russian movie called “Ikariya” from 2020, which has this short description:

    Follows a group of young thrill-seekers who gather on an island to play a dangerous game with a priceless prize – immortality.

    Though it does not seem to have a rating or reviews on IMDB.

  597. Putin’s attempt to pressure EU markets is rapidly falling apart. The 20% price drop (1), despite near zero supply from Russia (2), shows that:

    — Natural gas is a fungible commodity
    — Commodity gas is being replaced via alternate supply channels

    While ship based LNG is a limited method, the amount moving to Europe instead of Asia is an impressive shift. Here is a map of U.S. LNG export vessels.

     

     

    It will take another year for distribution to fully adjust. However, the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not manufacture another crisis.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/us-sends-fleet-lng-ships-fuel-starved-europe

    (2) https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/mallnow-more-mall-later

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123


    ...to pressure EU markets is rapidly falling apart. The 20% price drop despite near zero supply from Russia
     
    The prices are up almost 10-fold from a year ago, but because they dropped 20%, the pressure is off? Let's do business together, it would be like taking candy from a baby. :)

    There is no "zero supply" from Russia, I can assure you that the contracted volumes from Russia are coming every day, there has been no interruption. You focus on the spot market circus that is very volatile - Gazprom sometimes participates, lately no so much. But your narrative is completely upside-down, e.g. LNG ships from US are simply confirming that gas prices are up and will stay up - they wouldn't be coming otherwise.

    There is a fairly limited amount of energy in the world, including available gas. If prices go up, additional supplies become viable, but it mostly benefits existing gas suppliers with lower production costs - they get more for the same stuff. Gazprom has made an additional $8 billion in profit in 6 months due to higher prices (their contracts have a spot-price adjustment), that's twice more than the total Gazprom investment in NS2 pipeline. Hell, one is starting to suspect that it is Kremlin buying the German regulators to delay NS2 to make more easy money. (Norway is also raking it in, maybe some Scandie corruption? What do you think? or are Norwegians beyond suspicion?)

    The bottom line is that consumers are being hit with expensive bills and some energy-heavy manufacturers have shut down. Maybe next year the sun will shine a lot, the winds will be strong, economy will slow down - that would help. But maybe not, Russia has shifted to Asian exports where prices were higher. In the long run Europe will end up with a more expensive energy, slower growth, and lost markets in Russia.

    China has played this beautifully: they will get cheaper reliable gas, Russian resources and markets, and the Europeans will still genuflect in front of them. But when dealing with self-mythologizing fools, what would you expect?

    Replies: @A123

  598. @songbird
    @utu

    Some horse trainers put a hand on the stallion, when it is copulating.

    Seems very bizarre, but makes me wonder if the theories are true about the horse being domesticated from beta males that were cast out of a harem and could not snare their own mares.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Animal taming is a funny business. My Jersey cow just freshened and she has a heifer calf with her. I’ve kept them penned in the barn since it’s a muddy slushy mess outside to make milking easier. I’ve been in and out every day for a couple weeks and while the calf will sniff my jacket while I milk really has no interest in letting me near her despite Mama being as placid as can be (I don’t even have to tie her to milk).

    It was the same thing with her previous calf, though he was a bull so was destined for my freezer anyhow. I need to make the heifer docile if I want to sell her as a milker rather than eat her, so I’ll probably have to pen her up and bottle feed her at least part of the time to teach her that humans are a Very Good Thing. Otherwise, Mama gives her all she needs and she has no use for me. s

    It’s been rather surprising to me that in a breed as deeply domesticated as a Jersey cow that taming really runs quite shallow. It’s less baked in than one would expect without the proper imprinting at an early age.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Barbarossa

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781981619073318943/882498932456968203/TA0939.jpg

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    , @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Jersey seems like an interesting place.

    Well, I hate cow farms. But Jersey also has the best bank accounts and the tallest kale.

    I'd like to grow this Jersey Kale which is the traditional food they give to feed the Jersey cows. It grows to look like a palm tree.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrxF602LkM

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123

  599. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Your accusation of "grifting" is libelous & unsupportable.

    There is ZERO evidence Trump was grifting in in his 1st Term. There is undeniable evidence he was up impossible odds.
    ____

    If you are correct. Prove it. Provide fact based actions that clear the fillowing:

        -1- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come House resistance?

        -2- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Senate resistance?

        -3- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Judicial resistance?

        -4- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come Fake Stream Media resistance?

        -5- Provide detailed, achievable, *practical* plan how Trump could have successfully over come the criminally corrupt Special Counsel Mueller?
    ____

    To be non-libelous you must provide a course of action that could have worked to simultaneously overcome all 5 obstacles.

    Or, you can withdraw your MBNBC inspired accusation, and admit what actually occurred. Trump failed to achieve the impossible. There was no viable plan for total success available to his 1st Term.

    Trump was successful at obtaining what was available to be gained. Sadly, that us much less than what we would have liked. The 30 Year War was not won or lost in the first 4 years. This is a much better analogy in terms of time frame, hopefully less so in events. SJW Wokeness was slowly developed by enemies of freedom over decades.
    ____

    You should ignore Yellowface TROLL. He is ​fact free, highly emotional and, (lets be honest) "butt hurt" that he catastrophically failed a similar challenge. He is a low-IQ, #NeverTrump yahoo who exists to be inaccurate and libelous.

    Feel free to laugh at his comic flailing. I certainly do.

    # LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    We’ve gone around the merry go round a couple of times on Trump and I think it’s safe to say that we will have to agree to disagree on that score.

    In brief, Trump was completely unprepared on taking office for a successful consolidation of power to effect real implementation of major policy goals. Clearly he was not working behind the scenes to show folks where their bread could be buttered. Even swamp creatures like McConnell were happy enough to tolerate Trump when it seemed politically canny. That could have been exploited much more effectively.

    However, the aspects of Trump which made him an effective firebrand were the same temperamental issues which made him an ineffective wielder of power. Trump should have spent less time trolling on Twitter and more time recruiting a power base.

    I’ll reiterate that if Trump is really playing masterful 4D chess and engineers some huge upset, I’ll be glad to admit that I was wrong. As it stands, I had some real, if limited hopes for Trump, though I felt pretty thoroughly disillusioned in his first 6 months in office.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Trump was completely unprepared on taking office
     
    I still do not see you can fib with "unprepared" when the actual situation was "impossible". Would you please directly answer these simple questions:

    -- Do you agree that Trump needed the non-MAGA Senate for judicial and cabinet confirmations?
    -- Do you believe that Trump actually wanted to appoint Mrs. Mitch McConnell, Elaine Lan Chao, to a cabinet post?

    20/20 hindsight -- Appointing Judas "The Betrayer" Sessions to head the Justice Department was a catastrophic error. However, I am not sure it was predictable in advance.

    I had some real, if limited hopes for Trump, though I felt pretty thoroughly disillusioned in his first 6 months in office.
     
    Those of us with reasonable expectations were disillusioned with "The System" that blocked delivery of obviously rational policies.
    -- The House would not appropriate funds for Trump's Border Security policies thus rendering them *impossible*.
    -- The Mueller witch hunt sabotaged multiple opportunities, thus making Trump's plans to improve relations with Russia *impossible*.

    Take a step back look at the facts. Being disillusioned with Trump because The Impossible Was, In Fact, Impossible makes no sense.

    Instead "fact free flailing" against Trump that will inevitably damage the MAGA movement, you should channel your dissatisfaction to a constructive purpose. Fixing the actual "fact based problems" that rendered goals *impossible*. Imagine how much more successful the next MAGA President will be with:

    -- MAGA House for Appropriations
    -- MAGA Senate for Confirmations
    -- MAGA Special Counsel investigating DNC vote fraud

    The Senate is critical. It was *impossible* for Trump to obtain Senate Confirmation on Top Tier SCOTUS picks. Mitch's selection for SCOTUS are (no surprise) weak, because they were not actually Trump's selections.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
  600. @A123
    Putin's attempt to pressure EU markets is rapidly falling apart. The 20% price drop (1), despite near zero supply from Russia (2), shows that:

    -- Natural gas is a fungible commodity
    -- Commodity gas is being replaced via alternate supply channels

    While ship based LNG is a limited method, the amount moving to Europe instead of Asia is an impressive shift. Here is a map of U.S. LNG export vessels.

     
    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Snag_62cd8442_0.png
     

    It will take another year for distribution to fully adjust. However, the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not manufacture another crisis.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/us-sends-fleet-lng-ships-fuel-starved-europe

    (2) https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/mallnow-more-mall-later

    Replies: @Beckow

    …to pressure EU markets is rapidly falling apart. The 20% price drop despite near zero supply from Russia

    The prices are up almost 10-fold from a year ago, but because they dropped 20%, the pressure is off? Let’s do business together, it would be like taking candy from a baby. 🙂

    There is no “zero supply” from Russia, I can assure you that the contracted volumes from Russia are coming every day, there has been no interruption. You focus on the spot market circus that is very volatile – Gazprom sometimes participates, lately no so much. But your narrative is completely upside-down, e.g. LNG ships from US are simply confirming that gas prices are up and will stay up – they wouldn’t be coming otherwise.

    There is a fairly limited amount of energy in the world, including available gas. If prices go up, additional supplies become viable, but it mostly benefits existing gas suppliers with lower production costs – they get more for the same stuff. Gazprom has made an additional \$8 billion in profit in 6 months due to higher prices (their contracts have a spot-price adjustment), that’s twice more than the total Gazprom investment in NS2 pipeline. Hell, one is starting to suspect that it is Kremlin buying the German regulators to delay NS2 to make more easy money. (Norway is also raking it in, maybe some Scandie corruption? What do you think? or are Norwegians beyond suspicion?)

    The bottom line is that consumers are being hit with expensive bills and some energy-heavy manufacturers have shut down. Maybe next year the sun will shine a lot, the winds will be strong, economy will slow down – that would help. But maybe not, Russia has shifted to Asian exports where prices were higher. In the long run Europe will end up with a more expensive energy, slower growth, and lost markets in Russia.

    China has played this beautifully: they will get cheaper reliable gas, Russian resources and markets, and the Europeans will still genuflect in front of them. But when dealing with self-mythologizing fools, what would you expect?

    • Agree: Aedib
    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow

    You did not get to the last paragraph in my post. Let me repeat it for you:


    It will take another year for distribution to fully adjust. However, the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not manufacture another crisis.
     
    It was quite clear that I was referring to Putin's brazen attempt at extorting NS2 approval. Yes. Prices are high. Exporters in the U.S., Norway, and Russia are making money. The problem is not "100% over" that will take until next year. However, the forward looking resolution is clear.

    The "Russian-German" Axis just took a brutal geopolitical blow. It turns out that Christian Europe's does not need WEF acolyte Putin's natural gas after all. Russia made a very bad, short sighted, decision backing Davos, Inc. It made little sense with Merkel in office and became an #OMGfail situation when Scholz took over.
    ____

    Unsurprisingly, Europe & Asia gas prices track together. Gas, a fungible commodity, that would have been going to Asia is now being delivered to Europe.

     
    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Snag_62beb9c2.png
     

    Your assertion that China has gotten a good deal out of this is unsupportable. Gazprom is sucking money out of CCP coffers hand over fist.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    Replies: @Beckow

  601. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Animal taming is a funny business. My Jersey cow just freshened and she has a heifer calf with her. I've kept them penned in the barn since it's a muddy slushy mess outside to make milking easier. I've been in and out every day for a couple weeks and while the calf will sniff my jacket while I milk really has no interest in letting me near her despite Mama being as placid as can be (I don't even have to tie her to milk).

    It was the same thing with her previous calf, though he was a bull so was destined for my freezer anyhow. I need to make the heifer docile if I want to sell her as a milker rather than eat her, so I'll probably have to pen her up and bottle feed her at least part of the time to teach her that humans are a Very Good Thing. Otherwise, Mama gives her all she needs and she has no use for me. s

    It's been rather surprising to me that in a breed as deeply domesticated as a Jersey cow that taming really runs quite shallow. It's less baked in than one would expect without the proper imprinting at an early age.

    Replies: @sher singh, @Dmitry

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @songbird
    @sher singh

    Only applies to Indian breeds and/or cows in India.

    And it is a sensible law, as most Indians are obligate vegetarians, like Larry Niven's puppeteers:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierson's_Puppeteers

    Replies: @sher singh

    , @Barbarossa
    @sher singh

    Yes, how droll. Care to elaborate?
    I'm guessing that depicts the glorious victory of the Hindu's over the decadent cow-killing West or some-such? Who is the fellow about to get his head chopped? I'm not up enough on the details of the Indian sub-continent to follow it exactly. I thought you were Sikh anyhow?

    Replies: @sher singh

  602. @sher singh
    @Barbarossa

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781981619073318943/882498932456968203/TA0939.jpg

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Only applies to Indian breeds and/or cows in India.

    And it is a sensible law, as most Indians are obligate vegetarians, like Larry Niven’s puppeteers:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierson’s_Puppeteers

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @songbird

    ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਇ ਆਮਿਖ ਭਖੈ, ਬਿੱਪ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੋ ਖਾਇ ।
    A Sikh is one who eats meat, a Brahmin is one who does not.

    https://twitter.com/sri_asdhuj/status/1473960605572681728?s=20

    ਉਦਯ ਅਸਤ ਸਾਮੁਦ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਯੰਤੰ, ਅਬਿਚਲ ਰਾਜ ਮਿਲਯੋ ਸੁਰਪੁਰ ਕੋ ॥੪॥
    From where the sun rises to where it sets, across all the oceans, the Khalsa has received Eternal Kingdom from the Heavens.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CXuhEDNlmG7/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird

  603. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    We've gone around the merry go round a couple of times on Trump and I think it's safe to say that we will have to agree to disagree on that score.

    In brief, Trump was completely unprepared on taking office for a successful consolidation of power to effect real implementation of major policy goals. Clearly he was not working behind the scenes to show folks where their bread could be buttered. Even swamp creatures like McConnell were happy enough to tolerate Trump when it seemed politically canny. That could have been exploited much more effectively.

    However, the aspects of Trump which made him an effective firebrand were the same temperamental issues which made him an ineffective wielder of power. Trump should have spent less time trolling on Twitter and more time recruiting a power base.

    I'll reiterate that if Trump is really playing masterful 4D chess and engineers some huge upset, I'll be glad to admit that I was wrong. As it stands, I had some real, if limited hopes for Trump, though I felt pretty thoroughly disillusioned in his first 6 months in office.

    Replies: @A123

    Trump was completely unprepared on taking office

    I still do not see you can fib with “unprepared” when the actual situation was “impossible”. Would you please directly answer these simple questions:

    — Do you agree that Trump needed the non-MAGA Senate for judicial and cabinet confirmations?
    — Do you believe that Trump actually wanted to appoint Mrs. Mitch McConnell, Elaine Lan Chao, to a cabinet post?

    20/20 hindsight — Appointing Judas “The Betrayer” Sessions to head the Justice Department was a catastrophic error. However, I am not sure it was predictable in advance.

    I had some real, if limited hopes for Trump, though I felt pretty thoroughly disillusioned in his first 6 months in office.

    Those of us with reasonable expectations were disillusioned with “The System” that blocked delivery of obviously rational policies.
    — The House would not appropriate funds for Trump’s Border Security policies thus rendering them *impossible*.
    — The Mueller witch hunt sabotaged multiple opportunities, thus making Trump’s plans to improve relations with Russia *impossible*.

    Take a step back look at the facts. Being disillusioned with Trump because The Impossible Was, In Fact, Impossible makes no sense.

    Instead “fact free flailing” against Trump that will inevitably damage the MAGA movement, you should channel your dissatisfaction to a constructive purpose. Fixing the actual “fact based problems” that rendered goals *impossible*. Imagine how much more successful the next MAGA President will be with:

    — MAGA House for Appropriations
    — MAGA Senate for Confirmations
    — MAGA Special Counsel investigating DNC vote fraud

    The Senate is critical. It was *impossible* for Trump to obtain Senate Confirmation on Top Tier SCOTUS picks. Mitch’s selection for SCOTUS are (no surprise) weak, because they were not actually Trump’s selections.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

  604. @Beckow
    @A123


    ...to pressure EU markets is rapidly falling apart. The 20% price drop despite near zero supply from Russia
     
    The prices are up almost 10-fold from a year ago, but because they dropped 20%, the pressure is off? Let's do business together, it would be like taking candy from a baby. :)

    There is no "zero supply" from Russia, I can assure you that the contracted volumes from Russia are coming every day, there has been no interruption. You focus on the spot market circus that is very volatile - Gazprom sometimes participates, lately no so much. But your narrative is completely upside-down, e.g. LNG ships from US are simply confirming that gas prices are up and will stay up - they wouldn't be coming otherwise.

    There is a fairly limited amount of energy in the world, including available gas. If prices go up, additional supplies become viable, but it mostly benefits existing gas suppliers with lower production costs - they get more for the same stuff. Gazprom has made an additional $8 billion in profit in 6 months due to higher prices (their contracts have a spot-price adjustment), that's twice more than the total Gazprom investment in NS2 pipeline. Hell, one is starting to suspect that it is Kremlin buying the German regulators to delay NS2 to make more easy money. (Norway is also raking it in, maybe some Scandie corruption? What do you think? or are Norwegians beyond suspicion?)

    The bottom line is that consumers are being hit with expensive bills and some energy-heavy manufacturers have shut down. Maybe next year the sun will shine a lot, the winds will be strong, economy will slow down - that would help. But maybe not, Russia has shifted to Asian exports where prices were higher. In the long run Europe will end up with a more expensive energy, slower growth, and lost markets in Russia.

    China has played this beautifully: they will get cheaper reliable gas, Russian resources and markets, and the Europeans will still genuflect in front of them. But when dealing with self-mythologizing fools, what would you expect?

    Replies: @A123

    You did not get to the last paragraph in my post. Let me repeat it for you:

    It will take another year for distribution to fully adjust. However, the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not manufacture another crisis.

    It was quite clear that I was referring to Putin’s brazen attempt at extorting NS2 approval. Yes. Prices are high. Exporters in the U.S., Norway, and Russia are making money. The problem is not “100% over” that will take until next year. However, the forward looking resolution is clear.

    The “Russian-German” Axis just took a brutal geopolitical blow. It turns out that Christian Europe’s does not need WEF acolyte Putin’s natural gas after all. Russia made a very bad, short sighted, decision backing Davos, Inc. It made little sense with Merkel in office and became an #OMGfail situation when Scholz took over.
    ____

    Unsurprisingly, Europe & Asia gas prices track together. Gas, a fungible commodity, that would have been going to Asia is now being delivered to Europe.

      

    Your assertion that China has gotten a good deal out of this is unsupportable. Gazprom is sucking money out of CCP coffers hand over fist.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123


    ...the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not...
     
    The worst is ahead of us in January-February. Scholz cannot change his policies, Germany wants more expensive energy - they thinks the damn consumers are wasting it, same as with cars. I don't see how the current German government would change that, that's who they are.

    In the long run, 1 year, the basic equation stays the same: without Russia's cheap gas, most of Europe (of course, not all) will have higher energy costs and be less competitive. LNG doesn't fix it because it comes with the higher cost. There has never been a Russia-Germany axis - Germany is not a sovereign country, they do what they are told. For a few years Germany got away from strict supervision and lived large, it is over now, the boss in Washington said enough.

    Russia built a Power of Siberia pipeline to China (and Korea, Japan), and they are enlarging it quickly. This is good for China and bad for Germany - a basic trade reorientation that comes with Russia limiting German exports (about 4-5% of German GNP lives off very profitable Russian trade), and replacing it with China. Once in place, this will stick for a while - economic and trade cycles are very slow to change. Obviously this benefits China and hurts Germany.

    You don't understand that the realignment is not good for Germany or Europe. Nato climbed a tree in a remote area where the local power has full dominance. The local power just told them to climb down - and they don't know what to do, the PR could be devastating. They are in no position to fight in Ukraine, all we hear are threats of consequences: "it will cost you, Ukies will kill a lot of you, blabla...". Reverse that and consider if those are real: would US or Britain in a similar situation go for the $5 billion (NS2) or worry about a few dead men (US lost thousands on a whim to get nothing in Afghanistan).

    I have thought before that maybe Washington has some behind-the-scenes tool, something not public. But with Putin coming out and stating what he did - very publicly - that is unlikely. So what else? Nato will not and cannot fight, China seems with Russia, at some point Biden will have to eat crow and climb down that ladder - probably in the middle of the night and unobserved. Or he won't and we may turn to dust. But there is no winning for the West in this, as so often before they mistook overall power for local dominance - Putin is a street-wise guy, he knows that all fight are local and decided by who is stronger in that street corner, not by a remote mayor. After Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, one would think that this reality would dawn on the fools in Washington. But no, they did it again.

    Replies: @A123

  605. @A123
    @Beckow

    You did not get to the last paragraph in my post. Let me repeat it for you:


    It will take another year for distribution to fully adjust. However, the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not manufacture another crisis.
     
    It was quite clear that I was referring to Putin's brazen attempt at extorting NS2 approval. Yes. Prices are high. Exporters in the U.S., Norway, and Russia are making money. The problem is not "100% over" that will take until next year. However, the forward looking resolution is clear.

    The "Russian-German" Axis just took a brutal geopolitical blow. It turns out that Christian Europe's does not need WEF acolyte Putin's natural gas after all. Russia made a very bad, short sighted, decision backing Davos, Inc. It made little sense with Merkel in office and became an #OMGfail situation when Scholz took over.
    ____

    Unsurprisingly, Europe & Asia gas prices track together. Gas, a fungible commodity, that would have been going to Asia is now being delivered to Europe.

     
    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Snag_62beb9c2.png
     

    Your assertion that China has gotten a good deal out of this is unsupportable. Gazprom is sucking money out of CCP coffers hand over fist.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

    Replies: @Beckow

    …the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not…

    The worst is ahead of us in January-February. Scholz cannot change his policies, Germany wants more expensive energy – they thinks the damn consumers are wasting it, same as with cars. I don’t see how the current German government would change that, that’s who they are.

    In the long run, 1 year, the basic equation stays the same: without Russia’s cheap gas, most of Europe (of course, not all) will have higher energy costs and be less competitive. LNG doesn’t fix it because it comes with the higher cost. There has never been a Russia-Germany axis – Germany is not a sovereign country, they do what they are told. For a few years Germany got away from strict supervision and lived large, it is over now, the boss in Washington said enough.

    Russia built a Power of Siberia pipeline to China (and Korea, Japan), and they are enlarging it quickly. This is good for China and bad for Germany – a basic trade reorientation that comes with Russia limiting German exports (about 4-5% of German GNP lives off very profitable Russian trade), and replacing it with China. Once in place, this will stick for a while – economic and trade cycles are very slow to change. Obviously this benefits China and hurts Germany.

    You don’t understand that the realignment is not good for Germany or Europe. Nato climbed a tree in a remote area where the local power has full dominance. The local power just told them to climb down – and they don’t know what to do, the PR could be devastating. They are in no position to fight in Ukraine, all we hear are threats of consequences: “it will cost you, Ukies will kill a lot of you, blabla…“. Reverse that and consider if those are real: would US or Britain in a similar situation go for the \$5 billion (NS2) or worry about a few dead men (US lost thousands on a whim to get nothing in Afghanistan).

    I have thought before that maybe Washington has some behind-the-scenes tool, something not public. But with Putin coming out and stating what he did – very publicly – that is unlikely. So what else? Nato will not and cannot fight, China seems with Russia, at some point Biden will have to eat crow and climb down that ladder – probably in the middle of the night and unobserved. Or he won’t and we may turn to dust. But there is no winning for the West in this, as so often before they mistook overall power for local dominance – Putin is a street-wise guy, he knows that all fight are local and decided by who is stronger in that street corner, not by a remote mayor. After Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, one would think that this reality would dawn on the fools in Washington. But no, they did it again.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    – Germany is not a sovereign country, they do what they are told. For a few years Germany got away from strict supervision and lived large, it is over now, the boss in Washington said enough.
     
    The boss in Washington?????? LOL!!!! Are you SERIOUS?????

    -- Boss Biden?
    -- Boss Obama?
    -- Boss GW Bush? (I hurt myself laughing typing that)

    These folks are lucky to find a functioning bathroom without the help of a hunting dog and Ouija board. Then it is "Mission Accomplished" with Banners, TV Speeches, & Fireworks!!!!

    European Elites, notably Merkel, have been dominating the U.S. with SJW crazy (e.g. Open Borders) for a couple of decades. Trump knocked them off course, but we need another MAGA President to escape the WEF Beast Headquartered in Davos.

    There has never been a Russia-Germany axis
    ...
    realignment is not good for Germany or Europe.

     

    Your assertion is internally inconsistent:
    -- The best "Good" for Europe is a weaker Germany
    -- What is "Good" for The Dark Heart of Europe is bad for Europe.

    It is almost impossible for something to be simultaneously "Good" for the opposed sides -- Germany versus Christian Europe.
    ___

    If there was no German-Russian Axis why was Putin serving Merkel's (and Brussels) War On Christianity? The entire purpose of NS2 was to make Germany stronger and Christian Europe weaker. Scholz killed Merkel's German-Russian Axis by walking away from NS2. And, he has nothing to replace it.

    It is hard to see how Germany is going to prosper when their single currency boondoggles falls apart. The catastrophic fragility of EUR with its Frankfurt controlled, negative interest rates makes USD look like a pillar of strength by comparison.

    🎄Merry Christmas🎄
  606. @sher singh
    @Barbarossa

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781981619073318943/882498932456968203/TA0939.jpg

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Yes, how droll. Care to elaborate?
    I’m guessing that depicts the glorious victory of the Hindu’s over the decadent cow-killing West or some-such? Who is the fellow about to get his head chopped? I’m not up enough on the details of the Indian sub-continent to follow it exactly. I thought you were Sikh anyhow?

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Barbarossa

    http://www.krishna.com/you-can-talk-peace-till-cows-come-home

    Westerners worship cows whether as Hera, Evropa, Audumbla etc.

    The west is currently in the shackles of Christianity which Khalsa will free||

    The picture is Maharaja Parikshit fighting Kali Yuga which begins with cow slaughter||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  607. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    Just throw the whole “Masonic” consumerist image of Xmas without Christ out of the window, if you go the religious route.
     
    It is tricky. You want enough mimetic power to appeal to a strong, cohesive core that will reproduce geometrically, but, if you go too spiritual, there is a danger of becoming like the Puritans and dropping the useful parts of it. Of course, you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials - now reconceived for a nationalist audience.

    How would a Socialist North Japan have countered Takarazuka theater?
     
    Don't know enough about them, but, personally speaking, I like the idea of sending them to the country or region with the weakest grip strength on the theory that it would help them balance things out.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials – now reconceived for a nationalist audience.

    The feasting and festivity is actually good when separated from the consumer materialism which has come to define Christmas. That is where the balance provided by Advent comes in. Several weeks of fasting/ spiritual preparation actually go a long way toward making the festive aspects an authentic celebration.

    Of course in our modern age we are drowned by material excess so something like Christmas is just a spike in a saturated background. This is not very healthy either physically or psychologically so for a celebration to have meaning a balance must be established, with one extreme countered by another.

    I don’t think that a nationalist centered Christmas celebration is really what is needed. Nationalism just seems to me yet another product of modern liberalism and it’s worship of the totalizing State. To me what is needed is a wider cultural reality which is rooted in deeper things than the State, such as religion, family, the land and the continuity of ancestors to future generations.

    Of course, the West has completely discarded such things and it will be a very long time before they ever come back. What takes a thousand years to build can be destroyed in a generation.

    In the meantime, I can try to keep a Christmas tradition which is entirely counter(modern)cultural. There are a great number of traditions surrounded Advent and Christmas which are well worth researching for those who are dissatisfied with the current American practices.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Barbarossa

    This reminds me to wish everyone on the thread a very Merry Christmas. For some unfathomable reason I will NOT be checking in either tomorrow or the next day.

    Here's wishing all of you a Christmas filled with happiness, cheer, and the good company of friends and family!

    , @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    To me what is needed is a wider cultural reality which is rooted in deeper things than the State, such as religion, family, the land and the continuity of ancestors to future generations.
     
    I want this too, but with a state apparatus in order to defend against exploitation by other states. For me, the best term for this is "nationalism", and it has been given a bad wrap. Often, wholly wrongly, by people who want to rationalize their desire for globalism, but looking around, I just don't see any alternative.

    The current ideological foundation of the West seems to be constructed on the vilification of its founding stock; I don't see how it can pivot from that. Best case scenario, Euros will be under an infinite quasi slavery, where they reach an equilibrium. Worst case scenario, it will become an ever bigger stone around their necks, until they drown, or Western civilization collapses back into barbarism, or something worse.

    The root of nationalism is an instinct for ingroup (ethnic) loyalty. Like a lot of instincts, it is healthy in and of itself. Even anger or lust can be wonderfully productive. But like a lot of instincts, it can be exploited or subverted for negative purposes.

    Most of these exploits fit under the heading "patriotism" which is basically sportsball on the state level, except where the players and fans are expected to be willing to die for the owners.

    Nationalism is not without sin, but, I feel a lot of these are sins of the elite. Nuclear weapons has a dampening effect on many. Really, the way that I see it is, nationalism would have prevented a lot of problems. Possibly even WW2 in Europe. (For ex: Weimar wasn't exactly seen as serving German interests, but what if it had? Bolsheviks were pretty antinational)
  608. @Beckow
    @A123


    ...the worst is in the review mirror, assuming Scholz does not...
     
    The worst is ahead of us in January-February. Scholz cannot change his policies, Germany wants more expensive energy - they thinks the damn consumers are wasting it, same as with cars. I don't see how the current German government would change that, that's who they are.

    In the long run, 1 year, the basic equation stays the same: without Russia's cheap gas, most of Europe (of course, not all) will have higher energy costs and be less competitive. LNG doesn't fix it because it comes with the higher cost. There has never been a Russia-Germany axis - Germany is not a sovereign country, they do what they are told. For a few years Germany got away from strict supervision and lived large, it is over now, the boss in Washington said enough.

    Russia built a Power of Siberia pipeline to China (and Korea, Japan), and they are enlarging it quickly. This is good for China and bad for Germany - a basic trade reorientation that comes with Russia limiting German exports (about 4-5% of German GNP lives off very profitable Russian trade), and replacing it with China. Once in place, this will stick for a while - economic and trade cycles are very slow to change. Obviously this benefits China and hurts Germany.

    You don't understand that the realignment is not good for Germany or Europe. Nato climbed a tree in a remote area where the local power has full dominance. The local power just told them to climb down - and they don't know what to do, the PR could be devastating. They are in no position to fight in Ukraine, all we hear are threats of consequences: "it will cost you, Ukies will kill a lot of you, blabla...". Reverse that and consider if those are real: would US or Britain in a similar situation go for the $5 billion (NS2) or worry about a few dead men (US lost thousands on a whim to get nothing in Afghanistan).

    I have thought before that maybe Washington has some behind-the-scenes tool, something not public. But with Putin coming out and stating what he did - very publicly - that is unlikely. So what else? Nato will not and cannot fight, China seems with Russia, at some point Biden will have to eat crow and climb down that ladder - probably in the middle of the night and unobserved. Or he won't and we may turn to dust. But there is no winning for the West in this, as so often before they mistook overall power for local dominance - Putin is a street-wise guy, he knows that all fight are local and decided by who is stronger in that street corner, not by a remote mayor. After Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, one would think that this reality would dawn on the fools in Washington. But no, they did it again.

    Replies: @A123

    – Germany is not a sovereign country, they do what they are told. For a few years Germany got away from strict supervision and lived large, it is over now, the boss in Washington said enough.

    The boss in Washington?????? LOL!!!! Are you SERIOUS?????

    — Boss Biden?
    — Boss Obama?
    — Boss GW Bush? (I hurt myself laughing typing that)

    These folks are lucky to find a functioning bathroom without the help of a hunting dog and Ouija board. Then it is “Mission Accomplished” with Banners, TV Speeches, & Fireworks!!!!

    European Elites, notably Merkel, have been dominating the U.S. with SJW crazy (e.g. Open Borders) for a couple of decades. Trump knocked them off course, but we need another MAGA President to escape the WEF Beast Headquartered in Davos.

    There has never been a Russia-Germany axis

    realignment is not good for Germany or Europe.

    Your assertion is internally inconsistent:
    — The best “Good” for Europe is a weaker Germany
    — What is “Good” for The Dark Heart of Europe is bad for Europe.

    It is almost impossible for something to be simultaneously “Good” for the opposed sides — Germany versus Christian Europe.
    ___

    If there was no German-Russian Axis why was Putin serving Merkel’s (and Brussels) War On Christianity? The entire purpose of NS2 was to make Germany stronger and Christian Europe weaker. Scholz killed Merkel’s German-Russian Axis by walking away from NS2. And, he has nothing to replace it.

    It is hard to see how Germany is going to prosper when their single currency boondoggles falls apart. The catastrophic fragility of EUR with its Frankfurt controlled, negative interest rates makes USD look like a pillar of strength by comparison.

    🎄Merry Christmas🎄

  609. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    A large part of the country is depopulating, and the millions of young people desperately transverse to some large cities. It is like a vast emigration of wildebeest escaping from the dry zones. Associated phenomenon is that much of country is being asset stripped, and the wealth is piled in a few small places. This is possibly because the population will be easier to control if herded into a few megacities, covered with surveillance technology and digitized. Although less strategically, more realistically, it is encouraged to reduce costs and support the anthill construction industry.
     
    Not a very glowing, optimistic picture of Russia. On the contrary, quite gloomy and dystopic. Cheer up, because of Ukraine's very menacing provocative moves on Russia's border, Uncle Vasia will be able to create yet another war, blame it all on the West, and get the Russian mindset away from the domestic s___hole that you've described.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Yes the situation is probably not so unfair to call “halfway dystopian”, for many of these young people with median salaries and who come from areas with median location-value, that have to internally immigrate to the largest cities.

    On one hand, postsoviet Russia has still much affordable housing. But on the other hand, median salaries are low enough that it isn’t that “value for money” – to buy the apartment can still cost median income people decades of savings.

    This situation replicates processes of European countries, but with less cushion, across larger distances , more extreme swings, more open exploitation in housing construction.

    New housing supply is provided, so that there is no “housing crisis” in Russia. Even with low salary to median salary, the people can afford to buy.

    But as “you get what you pay for”, often products that is being constructed for vast demand for new housing created by internal immigration, is hardly regulated and allows the construction interest to be proudly opened by governors, priests and oligarchs in empty fields.

    So, for example, if you look at such an infamous new 10th district constructed in Samara for one hundred thousand people, which median income people can buy a shiny new apartment in a low rise building. It’s the 21st century version, of the “William Levitt” surburbs which were constructed 1950s America.

    This is the district named after the deputy Vladimir Koshelev who is one of Zhirinovsky’s politicians.

    They construct your new apartments in such “traditional architecture” and without high rise (so it is not a typical anthill).

    But when they try to give them an “American experience”, it repeats the “traditional buildings” a hundred times identical, in an empty field, without infrastructure.

    Then instead of giving useful infrastructure, they build the same church (this is like the standard identical church which oligarch’s construction companies produce everywhere).

    Another faces of the state to watch over you.

    Add some community events.

    And then the tank at the entrance.

    So people like AaronB (or Buddha and Jesus) can criticize us for being “materialistic” and “caring about money”. This is an acceptable to criticize our culture for this.

    But if you have to internally immigrate and have a median salary in Russia, then this is where you might be able to afford to live in.

    A spiritually strong person can live there, without viewing it negatively. But for the psychologically average, vulnerable person, it can be stressful. For the spritually less developed among us, you need enough money to insulate yourself from these realities.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry

    I find those pictures so profoundly depressing. Those are very anti-human places. I really do believe that we are profoundly shaped by our environments, including the built environment and that anthills like this do much to crush the best of our humanity.

    As you say, the spiritually strong can withstand it to some extent, but I feel terrible for the children who are raised in such places.

    With our great technological abilities we should be able to build beautiful buildings that last, but instead we build short term ugly garbage. Considering the relatively short lifespan of most modern buildings I believe that the Roman ruins or the medieval cathedrals will easily outlast virtually all buildings from the last hundred years.

    For example steel reinforced concrete (designed to perform in tension) blows itself apart from corrosion and spalling within decades. Slower curing Roman concrete was only used in compression (which plays to the material's natural strength) and will last for centuries.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @Dmitry

    Looks pretty much like an average neighborhood built during socialist times, but you actually need to pay for it instead of having the state subsidize the rent and all the utilities.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Well, if its the "American experience' that the median income Russian wage earners want, then that's what they'll get. American city suburban sprawl:

    https://shelterforce.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/4740549756_887c74b59c_k.jpg

    https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/1600-width/images/print-edition/20180512_USP003_0.jpg

    Replies: @sudden death

  610. @AP
    @Dmitry

    I visited there before the homeless and drug addicts took over. It was okay, nothing special. Beautiful nature around, but the city was nothing really.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    When he ranked Seattle high, it was based on the statistical indicators – education, median income, life expectancy.

    In those, it seems to be a successful region, with a majority of the population even appearing to be middle class.

    I found this article on the income composition of Seattle. It appears as a majority middle class area.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-median-income-soars-past-100000-but-wealth-doesnt-reach-all/

    Although he was very aggressive in his subjective view against that region even last year.

    Also he hates Portland. It makes me more interested to visit this area though – Seattle, Portland, Vancouver. All these three very liberal cities.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    Seattle wasn't terrible, it was just unimpressive as a city. This was before the homeless and drug addicts took over. I hear a lot of downtown is now boarded up. Portland is the same, only smaller and not on the ocean.

    I don't dispute the economic indicators.

    Vancouver in contrast to Seattle was very impressive as a city. It looks like a green and blue glass science fiction city from a novel written in the 1970s. Both Vancouver and Seattle share spectacular nature.

  611. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Animal taming is a funny business. My Jersey cow just freshened and she has a heifer calf with her. I've kept them penned in the barn since it's a muddy slushy mess outside to make milking easier. I've been in and out every day for a couple weeks and while the calf will sniff my jacket while I milk really has no interest in letting me near her despite Mama being as placid as can be (I don't even have to tie her to milk).

    It was the same thing with her previous calf, though he was a bull so was destined for my freezer anyhow. I need to make the heifer docile if I want to sell her as a milker rather than eat her, so I'll probably have to pen her up and bottle feed her at least part of the time to teach her that humans are a Very Good Thing. Otherwise, Mama gives her all she needs and she has no use for me. s

    It's been rather surprising to me that in a breed as deeply domesticated as a Jersey cow that taming really runs quite shallow. It's less baked in than one would expect without the proper imprinting at an early age.

    Replies: @sher singh, @Dmitry

    Jersey seems like an interesting place.

    Well, I hate cow farms. But Jersey also has the best bank accounts and the tallest kale.

    I’d like to grow this Jersey Kale which is the traditional food they give to feed the Jersey cows. It grows to look like a palm tree.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Kale is a wonderfully healthy nutrient rich food to eat. This is a good article about kale that highlights the benefits of adding some to your diet:

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270435#summary

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @A123
    @Dmitry

    😂Open Thread Humor😁

    Stop trying to place your "Special K" on my ALE....

    🎄Merry Christmas🎄

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/1tmnzz.jpg
     



     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/5c/b8/b25cb81dde5fb74ef0314e75cfe512bb.gif

     
    https://pics.me.me/pro-tip-if-you-stir-coconut-oil-into-your-kale-25047397.png

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/3lf8n2.jpg

     
    Yes.... This one has nothing to do with Kale... But I could not resist...

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/1lc26j.gif

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  612. @Barbarossa
    @songbird


    you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials – now reconceived for a nationalist audience.
     
    The feasting and festivity is actually good when separated from the consumer materialism which has come to define Christmas. That is where the balance provided by Advent comes in. Several weeks of fasting/ spiritual preparation actually go a long way toward making the festive aspects an authentic celebration.

    Of course in our modern age we are drowned by material excess so something like Christmas is just a spike in a saturated background. This is not very healthy either physically or psychologically so for a celebration to have meaning a balance must be established, with one extreme countered by another.

    I don't think that a nationalist centered Christmas celebration is really what is needed. Nationalism just seems to me yet another product of modern liberalism and it's worship of the totalizing State. To me what is needed is a wider cultural reality which is rooted in deeper things than the State, such as religion, family, the land and the continuity of ancestors to future generations.

    Of course, the West has completely discarded such things and it will be a very long time before they ever come back. What takes a thousand years to build can be destroyed in a generation.

    In the meantime, I can try to keep a Christmas tradition which is entirely counter(modern)cultural. There are a great number of traditions surrounded Advent and Christmas which are well worth researching for those who are dissatisfied with the current American practices.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

    This reminds me to wish everyone on the thread a very Merry Christmas. For some unfathomable reason I will NOT be checking in either tomorrow or the next day.

    Here’s wishing all of you a Christmas filled with happiness, cheer, and the good company of friends and family!

  613. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes the situation is probably not so unfair to call "halfway dystopian", for many of these young people with median salaries and who come from areas with median location-value, that have to internally immigrate to the largest cities.

    On one hand, postsoviet Russia has still much affordable housing. But on the other hand, median salaries are low enough that it isn't that "value for money" - to buy the apartment can still cost median income people decades of savings.

    This situation replicates processes of European countries, but with less cushion, across larger distances , more extreme swings, more open exploitation in housing construction.

    New housing supply is provided, so that there is no "housing crisis" in Russia. Even with low salary to median salary, the people can afford to buy.

    But as "you get what you pay for", often products that is being constructed for vast demand for new housing created by internal immigration, is hardly regulated and allows the construction interest to be proudly opened by governors, priests and oligarchs in empty fields.

    -

    So, for example, if you look at such an infamous new 10th district constructed in Samara for one hundred thousand people, which median income people can buy a shiny new apartment in a low rise building. It's the 21st century version, of the "William Levitt" surburbs which were constructed 1950s America.

    This is the district named after the deputy Vladimir Koshelev who is one of Zhirinovsky's politicians.

    They construct your new apartments in such "traditional architecture" and without high rise (so it is not a typical anthill).

    But when they try to give them an "American experience", it repeats the "traditional buildings" a hundred times identical, in an empty field, without infrastructure.


    https://i.imgur.com/DYgGwB6.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/ADokbnL.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/mKJfacQ.jpg

    Then instead of giving useful infrastructure, they build the same church (this is like the standard identical church which oligarch's construction companies produce everywhere).

    https://i.imgur.com/O7TbIWK.jpg

    Another faces of the state to watch over you.

    https://i.imgur.com/xPF0u8I.jpg



    Add some community events.

    https://i.imgur.com/u0zrIlK.jpg


    And then the tank at the entrance.

    https://i.imgur.com/3BocHTK.jpg


    -

    So people like AaronB (or Buddha and Jesus) can criticize us for being "materialistic" and "caring about money". This is an acceptable to criticize our culture for this.

    But if you have to internally immigrate and have a median salary in Russia, then this is where you might be able to afford to live in.

    A spiritually strong person can live there, without viewing it negatively. But for the psychologically average, vulnerable person, it can be stressful. For the spritually less developed among us, you need enough money to insulate yourself from these realities.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

    I find those pictures so profoundly depressing. Those are very anti-human places. I really do believe that we are profoundly shaped by our environments, including the built environment and that anthills like this do much to crush the best of our humanity.

    As you say, the spiritually strong can withstand it to some extent, but I feel terrible for the children who are raised in such places.

    With our great technological abilities we should be able to build beautiful buildings that last, but instead we build short term ugly garbage. Considering the relatively short lifespan of most modern buildings I believe that the Roman ruins or the medieval cathedrals will easily outlast virtually all buildings from the last hundred years.

    For example steel reinforced concrete (designed to perform in tension) blows itself apart from corrosion and spalling within decades. Slower curing Roman concrete was only used in compression (which plays to the material’s natural strength) and will last for centuries.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    pictures so profoundly depressing. Those are very anti-human places.

     

    It reminds of.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHdFd2RKRSI


    1:43 is like a commentary about modern Israel.


    terrible for the children
     
    Well there was a famous scandal in Russia, where some politicians were saying the country should ban Japanese anime and manga, because a teenage girl (who loved anime and manga) has killed herself by jumping out of the window of a building.

    But this girl's parents had moved a few months earlier into the district in my post above (the one with the traffic jams). So theoretically, you can blame architecture as much as manga.

    That said, I think children would not care as much about bad architecture compared to adults. They can be happy anywhere. Children respond to the emotional atmosphere of their family and school. I was happy as a child, while I was growing up surrounded by the world's worst architecture.

    I would also add that the building's architecture by themselves is probably not what causes an emotional stress. It's more likely the social situation of the architecture.

    That is, if you have to live in an anthill, where the social context implies like are being treated like a battery hen. If the people who build this, lived in those buildings, instead of Italianate houses in London, then the social situation would be less alienating.

    If you lived in a society where it is prestigious to live in a small square box, then it might not be emotionally stressful at all. In Ancient Sparta, the aristocrats can live in a communal barracks.

    Also notice that luxury buildings today do not necessarily have any better level of aesthetics from the anthill. And yet, people consider them to happy to live in.

    http://images.dailyhive.com/20180412143735/shutterstock_782459317-1.jpg

    You have the same square buildings, but a very different context.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  614. Even the main painter of TrumpMAGAchurch got repulsed after performance with Bill O’Reilly, so the losses are real within modern red voting crowd in USA:

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death

    No individual cartoonist defines the entire scope of politics. Branco does a pretty good job as a leading indicator of actual MAGA voters. No notice of the O'Reilly interview.

    https://comicallyincorrect.com/

    Many people I know are aware that Trump had a significant case of WUHAN-19 in the past has received a booster. No one is offended to the point of abandoning MAGA. If we are still talking about this in February, I will believe it is a material event. Either, this will be forgotten in a few weeks -or- More likely, Not-The-President Biden's regime will do some thing deranged and anyone wavering will get firmly back on board.

    Actually, I find this feeble attempt at manufactured controversy reassuring., possibly even encouraging. The Leftoids are in histrionic panic over the SJW/DNC's collapsing numbers, failing "Build Back Blunder" bill, a mentally disfuncational White House occupant, and an impending midterm wipe out. #NeverTrump desperately need a counter. What is the "best" effort anti-American extremists have? A ludicrous, tractionless, cheap shot about an O'Reilly event that few people saw and did not move the political needle.

    It is beginning to smell a lot like Christmas.... Also, bacon & MAGA victory.

    🎄Merry Christmas to All🎄

     
    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/meme%2020211220%2012.jpg
     

    Hmmmmmm... This picture appears to have been photo bombed by a cut out figure. What is he looking at? There seems to be a slight down angle on the eyes.

    , @A123
    @sudden death

    As you do not trust me, here is a genuine MAGA article debunking the feeble & comical attempt at #NeverTrump fear mongering: (1)


    President Trump supports the three vaccines that were developed during his administration, and is proud of the system he put into place to develop them and get them available to the public. However, President Trump does not support mandating the vaccine or forced vaccination for anyone, and believes that people should have the freedom to decide what is in their individual best interests.

    At approximately 05:10 of the interview, President Trump notes the specific issue of a government mandated vaccine developed by a private corporation, and the risk of corruption and conflicted interests involved. President Trump accepts that reasonable people would be skeptical of the vaccine itself and would have personal reasons not to participate.

    Toward the very end of the interview Trump states he is proud of the accomplishment and will not “give up” on his belief of the vaccine development as a success during his administration. However, he sees the forced mandate as very detrimental to the economy and views the consequences of the mandate itself as a problem for national security.

    Given the range of opinions on the issue of the vaccines overall, and the mandate specifically, President Trump’s position seems quite pragmatic and reasonable. He’s proud to have developed the vaccines, believes they are of benefit, but strongly respects individual choice, liberty and the freedom to decide for yourself and your family. I don’t see anything controversial in this position.
     
    The difference Vaxx-Realists and Vaxx-Nazis is quite clear. There is a risk benefit analysis. Elderly with preexisting conditions have sound reasons for choosing the experimental vaccine. Broadly giving it to children under 12 is scientifically unsound.

    The #NeverTrump effort to create a crisis out of nothing is already a bust.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇 -&- 🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    __________________________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/12/23/president-trump-supports-vaccine-doesnt-support-mandates/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vhcaxYTro4
  615. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes the situation is probably not so unfair to call "halfway dystopian", for many of these young people with median salaries and who come from areas with median location-value, that have to internally immigrate to the largest cities.

    On one hand, postsoviet Russia has still much affordable housing. But on the other hand, median salaries are low enough that it isn't that "value for money" - to buy the apartment can still cost median income people decades of savings.

    This situation replicates processes of European countries, but with less cushion, across larger distances , more extreme swings, more open exploitation in housing construction.

    New housing supply is provided, so that there is no "housing crisis" in Russia. Even with low salary to median salary, the people can afford to buy.

    But as "you get what you pay for", often products that is being constructed for vast demand for new housing created by internal immigration, is hardly regulated and allows the construction interest to be proudly opened by governors, priests and oligarchs in empty fields.

    -

    So, for example, if you look at such an infamous new 10th district constructed in Samara for one hundred thousand people, which median income people can buy a shiny new apartment in a low rise building. It's the 21st century version, of the "William Levitt" surburbs which were constructed 1950s America.

    This is the district named after the deputy Vladimir Koshelev who is one of Zhirinovsky's politicians.

    They construct your new apartments in such "traditional architecture" and without high rise (so it is not a typical anthill).

    But when they try to give them an "American experience", it repeats the "traditional buildings" a hundred times identical, in an empty field, without infrastructure.


    https://i.imgur.com/DYgGwB6.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/ADokbnL.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/mKJfacQ.jpg

    Then instead of giving useful infrastructure, they build the same church (this is like the standard identical church which oligarch's construction companies produce everywhere).

    https://i.imgur.com/O7TbIWK.jpg

    Another faces of the state to watch over you.

    https://i.imgur.com/xPF0u8I.jpg



    Add some community events.

    https://i.imgur.com/u0zrIlK.jpg


    And then the tank at the entrance.

    https://i.imgur.com/3BocHTK.jpg


    -

    So people like AaronB (or Buddha and Jesus) can criticize us for being "materialistic" and "caring about money". This is an acceptable to criticize our culture for this.

    But if you have to internally immigrate and have a median salary in Russia, then this is where you might be able to afford to live in.

    A spiritually strong person can live there, without viewing it negatively. But for the psychologically average, vulnerable person, it can be stressful. For the spritually less developed among us, you need enough money to insulate yourself from these realities.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

    Looks pretty much like an average neighborhood built during socialist times, but you actually need to pay for it instead of having the state subsidize the rent and all the utilities.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yellowface Anon

    In one important way it is better than Soviet housing, which is that the cost to buy the apartment might be high enough to filter away drunks from the building.

    This is the "traditional problem" in apartments, is that a couple of drunks can damage the atmosphere of the whole building.

    Whereas these new buildings are going to buyers, who usually need at least $30,000. Private new housing is useful for filtering too many drunks from the neighbors.

    However, in Soviet housing, at least after the 1960s, there was a lot of infrastructure, carefully planned for the residents.

    There was good regulation in terms of infrastructure and intelligent planning.

    Whereas the 21st century anthills are often constructed in empty field, with little infrastructure, despite politicians' promises.

    This is because the profit motive and lack of regulation, incentivizes the construction companies to produce as many apartments as possible, relative to the cost of infrastructure or land.

    -

    So there was this new district of 100,000 people opened by some years ago by Prime Minister Medvedev, Patriarch Kirill and the businessman Vekselberg whose company builds everything in the region.

    It was an empty field and within a few years there are now 80,000 people living there.

    https://i.imgur.com/IcKfDuv.jpg

    But when you read about it a few years later, the residents have no transport link to the city. They say there is insufficient road capacity relative to the population and it an hour of traffic jam for them to leave the building complex each morning. Eventually residents protested enough so they will are promising to build a tram station to there in this decade.

    https://cs.pikabu.ru/images/big_size_comm/2013-07_4/13742293134941.jpg

    This is because the combination of profit motive and low regulation, means they have produced vast population density, without adequate infrastructure. Less infrastructure, but there is a church where you can pray for them to construct a tram to link you to the city.

    https://i.imgur.com/cgLHPHM.jpg

  616. @songbird
    Been thinking again about why the English changed to using "Germany", and by now the answer seems pretty obvious to me: the Protestant Reformation.

    I think Henry VIII probably gutted priestly schools. His son introduced a sort of free national grammar school. Wouldn't surprise me, if they were reading Caesar, which, of course, uses "Germania." And the printing press helped make this possible.

    Possibly some secondary factors. Insular country. Didn't neighbor Germany. Might have been the most centralized state in Europe. Had a small elite class, the Normans.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Maybe it’s the English calling people from the Netherlands Dutch (which is the way Netherlanders call “German” – Duits).

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    I think that is part of the reason. If they had been using Dutch or Deutsch for Germans, they might have stuck with it.

    But they weren't because they were using it on the Hollanders, who were people they were concerned about, since they were a sea power, unlike the more distant German statelets.

    Of course, the Dutch and Germans are basically the same people. That is why it is a homonym. They were both using it to describe themselves, at one time.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  617. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes the situation is probably not so unfair to call "halfway dystopian", for many of these young people with median salaries and who come from areas with median location-value, that have to internally immigrate to the largest cities.

    On one hand, postsoviet Russia has still much affordable housing. But on the other hand, median salaries are low enough that it isn't that "value for money" - to buy the apartment can still cost median income people decades of savings.

    This situation replicates processes of European countries, but with less cushion, across larger distances , more extreme swings, more open exploitation in housing construction.

    New housing supply is provided, so that there is no "housing crisis" in Russia. Even with low salary to median salary, the people can afford to buy.

    But as "you get what you pay for", often products that is being constructed for vast demand for new housing created by internal immigration, is hardly regulated and allows the construction interest to be proudly opened by governors, priests and oligarchs in empty fields.

    -

    So, for example, if you look at such an infamous new 10th district constructed in Samara for one hundred thousand people, which median income people can buy a shiny new apartment in a low rise building. It's the 21st century version, of the "William Levitt" surburbs which were constructed 1950s America.

    This is the district named after the deputy Vladimir Koshelev who is one of Zhirinovsky's politicians.

    They construct your new apartments in such "traditional architecture" and without high rise (so it is not a typical anthill).

    But when they try to give them an "American experience", it repeats the "traditional buildings" a hundred times identical, in an empty field, without infrastructure.


    https://i.imgur.com/DYgGwB6.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/ADokbnL.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/mKJfacQ.jpg

    Then instead of giving useful infrastructure, they build the same church (this is like the standard identical church which oligarch's construction companies produce everywhere).

    https://i.imgur.com/O7TbIWK.jpg

    Another faces of the state to watch over you.

    https://i.imgur.com/xPF0u8I.jpg



    Add some community events.

    https://i.imgur.com/u0zrIlK.jpg


    And then the tank at the entrance.

    https://i.imgur.com/3BocHTK.jpg


    -

    So people like AaronB (or Buddha and Jesus) can criticize us for being "materialistic" and "caring about money". This is an acceptable to criticize our culture for this.

    But if you have to internally immigrate and have a median salary in Russia, then this is where you might be able to afford to live in.

    A spiritually strong person can live there, without viewing it negatively. But for the psychologically average, vulnerable person, it can be stressful. For the spritually less developed among us, you need enough money to insulate yourself from these realities.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Yellowface Anon, @Mr. Hack

    Well, if its the “American experience’ that the median income Russian wage earners want, then that’s what they’ll get. American city suburban sprawl:

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Mr. Hack

    idk, US way looks to me just incomparably way better aesthetically with all those curvy street lines and green bushy stripes inclusions, even if you can argue that such RF modern building is more efficient use of resources.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Yellowface Anon

  618. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Jersey seems like an interesting place.

    Well, I hate cow farms. But Jersey also has the best bank accounts and the tallest kale.

    I'd like to grow this Jersey Kale which is the traditional food they give to feed the Jersey cows. It grows to look like a palm tree.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrxF602LkM

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123

    Kale is a wonderfully healthy nutrient rich food to eat. This is a good article about kale that highlights the benefits of adding some to your diet:

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270435#summary

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Kale is very healthy, but recommend more the dark thin Italian Kale (also called Cavolo Nero, Dinosaur Kale, Lacinato kale) as it tastes much more sweet and it is not bitter than the lighter green Kale.

  619. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Well, if its the "American experience' that the median income Russian wage earners want, then that's what they'll get. American city suburban sprawl:

    https://shelterforce.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/4740549756_887c74b59c_k.jpg

    https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/1600-width/images/print-edition/20180512_USP003_0.jpg

    Replies: @sudden death

    idk, US way looks to me just incomparably way better aesthetically with all those curvy street lines and green bushy stripes inclusions, even if you can argue that such RF modern building is more efficient use of resources.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @sudden death

    There is enough variety in suburban sprawl aesthetics and enough individuality in home buyers that an American suburban home is an extremely not-liquid-asset. If you need the option to get out of town fast the Russian style looks like a better deal to me.

    (I like to rent.)

    , @Yellowface Anon
    @sudden death

    Instead of Thoreau's shack we have a commodified dwelling for a fully materialistic family unit, with the male worker drone or cog, the female caretaker, and children aspiring nothing but more of the same. Let all the shabby people infest those zones and inject some organic staleness into the dead pool of water.

  620. @sudden death
    Even the main painter of TrumpMAGAchurch got repulsed after performance with Bill O’Reilly, so the losses are real within modern red voting crowd in USA:

    https://i.redd.it/fqg4w5f86d781.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @A123

    No individual cartoonist defines the entire scope of politics. Branco does a pretty good job as a leading indicator of actual MAGA voters. No notice of the O’Reilly interview.

    https://comicallyincorrect.com/

    Many people I know are aware that Trump had a significant case of WUHAN-19 in the past has received a booster. No one is offended to the point of abandoning MAGA. If we are still talking about this in February, I will believe it is a material event. Either, this will be forgotten in a few weeks -or- More likely, Not-The-President Biden’s regime will do some thing deranged and anyone wavering will get firmly back on board.

    Actually, I find this feeble attempt at manufactured controversy reassuring., possibly even encouraging. The Leftoids are in histrionic panic over the SJW/DNC’s collapsing numbers, failing “Build Back Blunder” bill, a mentally disfuncational White House occupant, and an impending midterm wipe out. #NeverTrump desperately need a counter. What is the “best” effort anti-American extremists have? A ludicrous, tractionless, cheap shot about an O’Reilly event that few people saw and did not move the political needle.

    It is beginning to smell a lot like Christmas…. Also, bacon & MAGA victory.

    🎄Merry Christmas to All🎄

      

    [MORE]

    Hmmmmmm… This picture appears to have been photo bombed by a cut out figure. What is he looking at? There seems to be a slight down angle on the eyes.

  621. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Jersey seems like an interesting place.

    Well, I hate cow farms. But Jersey also has the best bank accounts and the tallest kale.

    I'd like to grow this Jersey Kale which is the traditional food they give to feed the Jersey cows. It grows to look like a palm tree.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrxF602LkM

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123

    😂Open Thread Humor😁

    Stop trying to place your “Special K” on my ALE….

    🎄Merry Christmas🎄

     

     

    [MORE]

     

     

     

     
    Yes…. This one has nothing to do with Kale… But I could not resist…

     

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    There must have been a mcdonalds cheeseburger taped into the middle of that cabbage. Cabbage to dogs is about as appetizing as kale to humans.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  622. @sudden death
    @Mr. Hack

    idk, US way looks to me just incomparably way better aesthetically with all those curvy street lines and green bushy stripes inclusions, even if you can argue that such RF modern building is more efficient use of resources.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Yellowface Anon

    There is enough variety in suburban sprawl aesthetics and enough individuality in home buyers that an American suburban home is an extremely not-liquid-asset. If you need the option to get out of town fast the Russian style looks like a better deal to me.

    (I like to rent.)

  623. @songbird
    @AP


    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude
     
    Mississippi was a colony of Catholic France and Spain. Longer than Quebec.

    Anyway, you are taking the coast of California with a Mediterranean climate (where the great, ancient civilizations flourished in the West) and giant bays, and comparing it to Mississippi, the blackest state, where Yellow Fever and Plasmodium falciparum raged?

    I'll tell you what. I might be impressed if you find a Baroque musical piece written by a native in a giant Cathedral in the 1500s, at the same distance from the equator as Boston. It is actually a comparison that would favor you, and I'll tell you why. Potatoes were domesticated in the mountains, and so developed and were adapted to many ecological niches, unlike corn.


    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.
     
    You are strawmanning me. The arguments I've made are a lot more nuanced than that. They include climate, soil type, disease dynamics, facility of ingress (poor in Quebec and Paraguay, good in Massachusetts Bay), and most importantly size.

    8x as big, is not just a little bigger, but a lot bigger. Need I add that we are comparing imaginary quantities? That injun is a semi-fictive category, and that there are strange dynamics involved in it? (Divide your Indians by 2, by adding a white parent, and more as like you get more Indians) That it is not a scientific comparison, which would be comparing genes, rather than people claiming to be Injuns.


    We tend to discuss history more than religion here. Which is why our posting histories indicates that both of us have referenced Hitler more than God.
     
    I'm not sure it is history, if we we try to create moral hierarchies of peoples, and sermonize on the putative evil that people's ancestors committed, while lionizing what we see as our own group or ethnicity.

    You should cut the fat, and reduce your moral argument. What is it? Should Amerinds be given more sovereignty? Jews more money and power? Do you think Bible reading is wrong? Or only The King James Bible? Or do you think Anglos are evil, by nature?


    Who is fighting them in America? Not me.
     
    We haven't had a war in a while. Moralizing rhetoric is how we fight now, and, at least for the Left, it seems obviously more effective than war, which makes sense as a lot of their power comes from women, gays, and soy boys, not to mention, third worlders.

    Replies: @AP

    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude

    Mississippi was a colony of Catholic France and Spain. Longer than Quebec.

    Just a narrow strip along the coast. Somehow there were beautiful missions in Texas and the Southwest but none where the Anglos were. What happened to the Cherokees in Georgia and North Carolina? Seems they largely tried to civilize themselves before the Anglos murdered them and forced them off their lands.

    Anyway, you are taking the coast of California with a Mediterranean climate (where the great, ancient civilizations flourished in the West) and giant bays, and comparing it to Mississippi, the blackest state

    You can compare TX and NM to Arkansas. And what happened when the Anglos came to California? Indian massacres, naturally.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.

    You are strawmanning me.

    You were emphasizing that – “Latitude strikes again. ” etc.

    They include climate, soil type, disease dynamics, facility of ingress (poor in Quebec and Paraguay, good in Massachusetts Bay), and most importantly size.

    But didn’t you say that California benefited from its bays? It seems that you try to pick and choose whatever differences may support your point, changing them as they become inconvenient. Latitude matters, until it doesn’t. Easy access to bays matter, until they don’t. If there were Spaniards had colonized Arkansas and Georgia and built missions there, but none in a New Mexico settled buy Anglos, you would make the excuse that NM was too arid.

    8x as big, is not just a little bigger, but a lot bigger.

    But we were not talking about the vast tundra of Quebec inhabited by Inuit, but about the parts of Quebec with a temperate climate where the French and Indians lived. These parts aren’t much larger nor different from New England, yet Quebec has 3 times more Indians than New England.

    You also chose not to address the well documented large number of Indian massacres in New England, compared to few right next door in Quebec.

    You should cut the fat, and reduce your moral argument. What is it? Should Amerinds be given more sovereignty? Jews more money and power? Do you think Bible reading is wrong? Or only The King James Bible? Or do you think Anglos are evil, by nature?

    Protestsantism, as a heresy, has a lot of evil in it, and this is reflected in their negative role in history, including in the way that Protestants have generally treated Natives (and Irish).

    You seem to view this as somehow delegitimizing the United States (it is not, because the alternative to the traditional USA is something worse) so you are motivated to make excuses for or covering up obvious past evils by the murderous Calvinist heretics.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    Protestsantism, as a heresy, has a lot of evil in it, and this is reflected in their negative role in history, including in the way that Protestants have generally treated Natives (and Irish).
     
    There were some pretty intense ethnic divisions ("the Pale") and conflict within Ireland, before the Reformation.

    You seem to view this as somehow delegitimizing the United States (it is not, because the alternative to the traditional USA is something worse)
     
    Ethics is consequence, not intention.

    Right now statues of the founding fathers are being pulled down. The West is being invaded at a pace that dwarfs any past invasion in history. Almost half of births in Belgium are to foreign mothers. Now is not the best time to be talking about putative sins of Europeans who lived hundreds of years ago.

    But didn’t you say that California benefited from its bays?
     
    My point was that Amerinds never developed a big civilization there, which shows that their agriculture still left something to be desired. The Central Valley is probably the best agricultural land in the US (with irrigation). I think it goes without saying that bays on the East coast are much better situated than bays on the West coast, from the perspective of colonization. No surprise that there are more Indians on the West coast, or in remote Arizona.

    You also chose not to address the well documented large number of Indian massacres in New England, compared to few right next door in Quebec.
     
    How many do you think were killed in the US, total, from 1600-1900? Was it even 5% of those killed in the war where the Spanish fought Amerinds who had cities? Was it even 10% of the number killed in Cromwell's conquest of Ireland? Were there not days on which more people were killed in WWI?

    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other? Viciously and with extreme ruthlessness?

    Colonial history is a little fuzzy. You believe that less were killed in Quebec. It may or may not be the case, though in any event, we are talking about a very small difference. Numerically inconsequential compared to virtually any other conflict in human history. Likely, the Na-dene killed more in their march east and south.

    Replies: @German_reader

  624. @A123
    @Dmitry

    😂Open Thread Humor😁

    Stop trying to place your "Special K" on my ALE....

    🎄Merry Christmas🎄

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/1tmnzz.jpg
     



     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/5c/b8/b25cb81dde5fb74ef0314e75cfe512bb.gif

     
    https://pics.me.me/pro-tip-if-you-stir-coconut-oil-into-your-kale-25047397.png

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/3lf8n2.jpg

     
    Yes.... This one has nothing to do with Kale... But I could not resist...

     
    https://i.imgflip.com/1lc26j.gif

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    There must have been a mcdonalds cheeseburger taped into the middle of that cabbage. Cabbage to dogs is about as appetizing as kale to humans.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do many folks really dislike the taste of kale that much? I started to employ it into my cooking regimen about a year ago, after a friend of mine brought over a salad he made with a lot of kale in it. I looked it up and found out that it's a treasure trove of excellent nutrients. I had already incorporated spinach the same way much earlier. They're both rather innocuous to my taste buds. An excellent addition to most any salad. I've started to saute both on a skillet with some olive oil and crushed garlic, and it tastes good to me. I'm making a chicken/vegetable soup today, and plan to add in both some kale and spinach. BTW, I like to juice both of them too.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  625. @Dmitry
    @AP

    When he ranked Seattle high, it was based on the statistical indicators - education, median income, life expectancy.

    In those, it seems to be a successful region, with a majority of the population even appearing to be middle class.

    I found this article on the income composition of Seattle. It appears as a majority middle class area.
    https://i.imgur.com/Ywl5sFr.jpg

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattles-median-income-soars-past-100000-but-wealth-doesnt-reach-all/


    -

    Although he was very aggressive in his subjective view against that region even last year.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCfjDS0wn3s

    Also he hates Portland. It makes me more interested to visit this area though - Seattle, Portland, Vancouver. All these three very liberal cities.

    Replies: @AP

    Seattle wasn’t terrible, it was just unimpressive as a city. This was before the homeless and drug addicts took over. I hear a lot of downtown is now boarded up. Portland is the same, only smaller and not on the ocean.

    I don’t dispute the economic indicators.

    Vancouver in contrast to Seattle was very impressive as a city. It looks like a green and blue glass science fiction city from a novel written in the 1970s. Both Vancouver and Seattle share spectacular nature.

  626. @sudden death
    @Mr. Hack

    idk, US way looks to me just incomparably way better aesthetically with all those curvy street lines and green bushy stripes inclusions, even if you can argue that such RF modern building is more efficient use of resources.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Yellowface Anon

    Instead of Thoreau’s shack we have a commodified dwelling for a fully materialistic family unit, with the male worker drone or cog, the female caretaker, and children aspiring nothing but more of the same. Let all the shabby people infest those zones and inject some organic staleness into the dead pool of water.

  627. @sher singh
    @Max Demian

    More is used when Karlin doesn't like your comment or you're engaging in off-topic trolling.
    Part of the joy of this forum is the lack of low-bandwidth troll farms||

    Please help keep it this way by indulging in the posting of high-res imgs, twitter posts, reddit threads, etc.
    You are all doing a public service by NOT following Max Demian's instructions, as he tries to create a GREAT BI-FURCATION on this forum by separating the intelligent from the retards||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Max Demian

    Part of the joy of this forum is the lack of low-bandwidth troll farms||

    Please help keep it this way by indulging in the posting of high-res imgs, twitter posts, reddit threads, etc.
    You are all doing a public service by NOT following Max Demian’s instructions, as he tries to create a GREAT BI-FURCATION on this forum by separating the intelligent from the retards||

    Hmm…

    sher singh says:
    December 20, 2021 at 6:23 am GMT

    NERD, stop. Also murder is based but gayness is not|| Your nerdtales & argument have 0 IRL impact.
    The 3 comment per hour rule was made for niggas like you, r u opening gas station in QC or maine?

    While not quite sure just what else to make of you, that you are a class act, bar none, could hardly be any clearer.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Max Demian

    I'm sorry I don't enjoy month long, 1000+ comment threads on whether catholics or protestants were better at race-mixing with natives||

    Part of the moderation on this forum is calling people gay when they step out of line||

    You're new here, respect the traditions & custom u immigrant.

    :)

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  628. @Yellowface Anon
    @Dmitry

    Looks pretty much like an average neighborhood built during socialist times, but you actually need to pay for it instead of having the state subsidize the rent and all the utilities.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    In one important way it is better than Soviet housing, which is that the cost to buy the apartment might be high enough to filter away drunks from the building.

    This is the “traditional problem” in apartments, is that a couple of drunks can damage the atmosphere of the whole building.

    Whereas these new buildings are going to buyers, who usually need at least \$30,000. Private new housing is useful for filtering too many drunks from the neighbors.

    However, in Soviet housing, at least after the 1960s, there was a lot of infrastructure, carefully planned for the residents.

    There was good regulation in terms of infrastructure and intelligent planning.

    Whereas the 21st century anthills are often constructed in empty field, with little infrastructure, despite politicians’ promises.

    This is because the profit motive and lack of regulation, incentivizes the construction companies to produce as many apartments as possible, relative to the cost of infrastructure or land.

    So there was this new district of 100,000 people opened by some years ago by Prime Minister Medvedev, Patriarch Kirill and the businessman Vekselberg whose company builds everything in the region.

    It was an empty field and within a few years there are now 80,000 people living there.

    But when you read about it a few years later, the residents have no transport link to the city. They say there is insufficient road capacity relative to the population and it an hour of traffic jam for them to leave the building complex each morning. Eventually residents protested enough so they will are promising to build a tram station to there in this decade.

    This is because the combination of profit motive and low regulation, means they have produced vast population density, without adequate infrastructure. Less infrastructure, but there is a church where you can pray for them to construct a tram to link you to the city.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  629. @sudden death
    Even the main painter of TrumpMAGAchurch got repulsed after performance with Bill O’Reilly, so the losses are real within modern red voting crowd in USA:

    https://i.redd.it/fqg4w5f86d781.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @A123

    As you do not trust me, here is a genuine MAGA article debunking the feeble & comical attempt at #NeverTrump fear mongering: (1)

    President Trump supports the three vaccines that were developed during his administration, and is proud of the system he put into place to develop them and get them available to the public. However, President Trump does not support mandating the vaccine or forced vaccination for anyone, and believes that people should have the freedom to decide what is in their individual best interests.

    At approximately 05:10 of the interview, President Trump notes the specific issue of a government mandated vaccine developed by a private corporation, and the risk of corruption and conflicted interests involved. President Trump accepts that reasonable people would be skeptical of the vaccine itself and would have personal reasons not to participate.

    Toward the very end of the interview Trump states he is proud of the accomplishment and will not “give up” on his belief of the vaccine development as a success during his administration. However, he sees the forced mandate as very detrimental to the economy and views the consequences of the mandate itself as a problem for national security.

    Given the range of opinions on the issue of the vaccines overall, and the mandate specifically, President Trump’s position seems quite pragmatic and reasonable. He’s proud to have developed the vaccines, believes they are of benefit, but strongly respects individual choice, liberty and the freedom to decide for yourself and your family. I don’t see anything controversial in this position.

    The difference Vaxx-Realists and Vaxx-Nazis is quite clear. There is a risk benefit analysis. Elderly with preexisting conditions have sound reasons for choosing the experimental vaccine. Broadly giving it to children under 12 is scientifically unsound.

    The #NeverTrump effort to create a crisis out of nothing is already a bust.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇 -&- 🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    __________________________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/12/23/president-trump-supports-vaccine-doesnt-support-mandates/

  630. @Barbarossa
    @Dmitry

    I find those pictures so profoundly depressing. Those are very anti-human places. I really do believe that we are profoundly shaped by our environments, including the built environment and that anthills like this do much to crush the best of our humanity.

    As you say, the spiritually strong can withstand it to some extent, but I feel terrible for the children who are raised in such places.

    With our great technological abilities we should be able to build beautiful buildings that last, but instead we build short term ugly garbage. Considering the relatively short lifespan of most modern buildings I believe that the Roman ruins or the medieval cathedrals will easily outlast virtually all buildings from the last hundred years.

    For example steel reinforced concrete (designed to perform in tension) blows itself apart from corrosion and spalling within decades. Slower curing Roman concrete was only used in compression (which plays to the material's natural strength) and will last for centuries.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    pictures so profoundly depressing. Those are very anti-human places.

    It reminds of.

    1:43 is like a commentary about modern Israel.

    terrible for the children

    Well there was a famous scandal in Russia, where some politicians were saying the country should ban Japanese anime and manga, because a teenage girl (who loved anime and manga) has killed herself by jumping out of the window of a building.

    But this girl’s parents had moved a few months earlier into the district in my post above (the one with the traffic jams). So theoretically, you can blame architecture as much as manga.

    That said, I think children would not care as much about bad architecture compared to adults. They can be happy anywhere. Children respond to the emotional atmosphere of their family and school. I was happy as a child, while I was growing up surrounded by the world’s worst architecture.

    I would also add that the building’s architecture by themselves is probably not what causes an emotional stress. It’s more likely the social situation of the architecture.

    That is, if you have to live in an anthill, where the social context implies like are being treated like a battery hen. If the people who build this, lived in those buildings, instead of Italianate houses in London, then the social situation would be less alienating.

    If you lived in a society where it is prestigious to live in a small square box, then it might not be emotionally stressful at all. In Ancient Sparta, the aristocrats can live in a communal barracks.

    Also notice that luxury buildings today do not necessarily have any better level of aesthetics from the anthill. And yet, people consider them to happy to live in.

    You have the same square buildings, but a very different context.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Dmitry

    I read stories of 60s families in HK having excellent communal life despite living in awful Social Housing designs. It was a carryover of an ordered chaos from the Chinese streetscape, what you would imagine to happen in Kowloon Wall City but cleaner. It took a turn for the worse when the hyperindividualist middle-class lifestyle was imported in the 80s along with all the industry being moved to Mainland China.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  631. @utu
    @Max Demian

    The only things Swedes may feel guilty about, because they have been indoctrinated to feel guilty about it starting in 1950s is what Sailer would himself be very proud of, i.e., the eugenics programs and support for them in the first half of 20th century. Their Sailerian thinking about improving their population by biological means was used against Swedes convincing them that they were on the brink of being inbred and thus needing lots of fresh blood. This was pretty clever reversal of the vector of indoctrination. Sweden has more foreign born than Denmark but not significantly more.


    Immigrants in Norway, Sweden and Denmark
    https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/artikler-og-publikasjoner/_attachment/204333?_ts=1497ab864
     
    Sweden got bad rap in the US because of Sweden's socialist tendencies - the third way, political activism in the movement of non-aligned countries and most importantly the unforgivable sin of support, i.e., trying to be even handed with Palestinians. The influx of immigrants is not a poetic justice but a planned operation to destroy Sweden's uniqueness as the best example that the third way was possible.

    Sailer - self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Thulean Friend, @Max Demian

    Sailer – self-proclaimed man who notices, is really a hopeless case of lack of self awareness. Pretty pathetic character overall. In fact very even quite ugly.

    Also from utu, Comment #578

    a perfect example of the fact that you are unable to experience reality without overloading interference of your pettiness, smallness, resentments and hatreds. It’s a pity that for Slovakia that such an ugly character like you will be forever associated with Slovakia for those who had misfortune of knowing you from Karlin’s blog.

    Might you be demading too much of others? After all, you are obviously an exemplar of clear, unbiased perception of objective reality; as well as of kindness, graciousness, humility, and forbearance. How reasonable is it, though, to expect such refinement and nobility of character from men less exceptional than yourself?

    Also, not to be pedantic but was fact really the correct word to use in that first sentence of yours that I quoted from above? Was what you went-on to articulate not, rather, a subjective opinion and characterization?

  632. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    There must have been a mcdonalds cheeseburger taped into the middle of that cabbage. Cabbage to dogs is about as appetizing as kale to humans.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Do many folks really dislike the taste of kale that much? I started to employ it into my cooking regimen about a year ago, after a friend of mine brought over a salad he made with a lot of kale in it. I looked it up and found out that it’s a treasure trove of excellent nutrients. I had already incorporated spinach the same way much earlier. They’re both rather innocuous to my taste buds. An excellent addition to most any salad. I’ve started to saute both on a skillet with some olive oil and crushed garlic, and it tastes good to me. I’m making a chicken/vegetable soup today, and plan to add in both some kale and spinach. BTW, I like to juice both of them too.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    Spinach is food. Broccoli is food. Brussels sprouts are food.

    Kale is not food. Collard greens are not food.

    /my_opinion : )

    Replies: @songbird, @iffen

  633. @Barbarossa
    @songbird


    you want to pare down the materialism, but maybe, keep the absolute minimum useful stuff, like feasting, cards and decorations, and Christmas specials – now reconceived for a nationalist audience.
     
    The feasting and festivity is actually good when separated from the consumer materialism which has come to define Christmas. That is where the balance provided by Advent comes in. Several weeks of fasting/ spiritual preparation actually go a long way toward making the festive aspects an authentic celebration.

    Of course in our modern age we are drowned by material excess so something like Christmas is just a spike in a saturated background. This is not very healthy either physically or psychologically so for a celebration to have meaning a balance must be established, with one extreme countered by another.

    I don't think that a nationalist centered Christmas celebration is really what is needed. Nationalism just seems to me yet another product of modern liberalism and it's worship of the totalizing State. To me what is needed is a wider cultural reality which is rooted in deeper things than the State, such as religion, family, the land and the continuity of ancestors to future generations.

    Of course, the West has completely discarded such things and it will be a very long time before they ever come back. What takes a thousand years to build can be destroyed in a generation.

    In the meantime, I can try to keep a Christmas tradition which is entirely counter(modern)cultural. There are a great number of traditions surrounded Advent and Christmas which are well worth researching for those who are dissatisfied with the current American practices.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

    To me what is needed is a wider cultural reality which is rooted in deeper things than the State, such as religion, family, the land and the continuity of ancestors to future generations.

    I want this too, but with a state apparatus in order to defend against exploitation by other states. For me, the best term for this is “nationalism”, and it has been given a bad wrap.

    [MORE]
    Often, wholly wrongly, by people who want to rationalize their desire for globalism, but looking around, I just don’t see any alternative.

    The current ideological foundation of the West seems to be constructed on the vilification of its founding stock; I don’t see how it can pivot from that. Best case scenario, Euros will be under an infinite quasi slavery, where they reach an equilibrium. Worst case scenario, it will become an ever bigger stone around their necks, until they drown, or Western civilization collapses back into barbarism, or something worse.

    The root of nationalism is an instinct for ingroup (ethnic) loyalty. Like a lot of instincts, it is healthy in and of itself. Even anger or lust can be wonderfully productive. But like a lot of instincts, it can be exploited or subverted for negative purposes.

    Most of these exploits fit under the heading “patriotism” which is basically sportsball on the state level, except where the players and fans are expected to be willing to die for the owners.

    Nationalism is not without sin, but, I feel a lot of these are sins of the elite. Nuclear weapons has a dampening effect on many. Really, the way that I see it is, nationalism would have prevented a lot of problems. Possibly even WW2 in Europe. (For ex: Weimar wasn’t exactly seen as serving German interests, but what if it had? Bolsheviks were pretty antinational)

  634. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    Kale is a wonderfully healthy nutrient rich food to eat. This is a good article about kale that highlights the benefits of adding some to your diet:

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270435#summary

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Kale is very healthy, but recommend more the dark thin Italian Kale (also called Cavolo Nero, Dinosaur Kale, Lacinato kale) as it tastes much more sweet and it is not bitter than the lighter green Kale.

  635. @AP
    @songbird


    There are beautiful missions and churches for the Natives in the North too, as far north as New Mexico and California. But not so many in Arkansas or Mississippi which are at the same latitude

    Mississippi was a colony of Catholic France and Spain. Longer than Quebec.
     
    Just a narrow strip along the coast. Somehow there were beautiful missions in Texas and the Southwest but none where the Anglos were. What happened to the Cherokees in Georgia and North Carolina? Seems they largely tried to civilize themselves before the Anglos murdered them and forced them off their lands.

    Anyway, you are taking the coast of California with a Mediterranean climate (where the great, ancient civilizations flourished in the West) and giant bays, and comparing it to Mississippi, the blackest state
     
    You can compare TX and NM to Arkansas. And what happened when the Anglos came to California? Indian massacres, naturally.

    BTW, you are claiming that the closer to the equator, the more Natives one would expect.

    You are strawmanning me.
     
    You were emphasizing that - "Latitude strikes again. " etc.

    They include climate, soil type, disease dynamics, facility of ingress (poor in Quebec and Paraguay, good in Massachusetts Bay), and most importantly size.
     
    But didn't you say that California benefited from its bays? It seems that you try to pick and choose whatever differences may support your point, changing them as they become inconvenient. Latitude matters, until it doesn't. Easy access to bays matter, until they don't. If there were Spaniards had colonized Arkansas and Georgia and built missions there, but none in a New Mexico settled buy Anglos, you would make the excuse that NM was too arid.

    8x as big, is not just a little bigger, but a lot bigger.
     
    But we were not talking about the vast tundra of Quebec inhabited by Inuit, but about the parts of Quebec with a temperate climate where the French and Indians lived. These parts aren't much larger nor different from New England, yet Quebec has 3 times more Indians than New England.

    You also chose not to address the well documented large number of Indian massacres in New England, compared to few right next door in Quebec.

    You should cut the fat, and reduce your moral argument. What is it? Should Amerinds be given more sovereignty? Jews more money and power? Do you think Bible reading is wrong? Or only The King James Bible? Or do you think Anglos are evil, by nature?
     
    Protestsantism, as a heresy, has a lot of evil in it, and this is reflected in their negative role in history, including in the way that Protestants have generally treated Natives (and Irish).

    You seem to view this as somehow delegitimizing the United States (it is not, because the alternative to the traditional USA is something worse) so you are motivated to make excuses for or covering up obvious past evils by the murderous Calvinist heretics.

    Replies: @songbird

    Protestsantism, as a heresy, has a lot of evil in it, and this is reflected in their negative role in history, including in the way that Protestants have generally treated Natives (and Irish).

    There were some pretty intense ethnic divisions (“the Pale”) and conflict within Ireland, before the Reformation.

    [MORE]

    You seem to view this as somehow delegitimizing the United States (it is not, because the alternative to the traditional USA is something worse)

    Ethics is consequence, not intention.

    Right now statues of the founding fathers are being pulled down. The West is being invaded at a pace that dwarfs any past invasion in history. Almost half of births in Belgium are to foreign mothers. Now is not the best time to be talking about putative sins of Europeans who lived hundreds of years ago.

    But didn’t you say that California benefited from its bays?

    My point was that Amerinds never developed a big civilization there, which shows that their agriculture still left something to be desired. The Central Valley is probably the best agricultural land in the US (with irrigation). I think it goes without saying that bays on the East coast are much better situated than bays on the West coast, from the perspective of colonization. No surprise that there are more Indians on the West coast, or in remote Arizona.

    You also chose not to address the well documented large number of Indian massacres in New England, compared to few right next door in Quebec.

    How many do you think were killed in the US, total, from 1600-1900? Was it even 5% of those killed in the war where the Spanish fought Amerinds who had cities? Was it even 10% of the number killed in Cromwell’s conquest of Ireland? Were there not days on which more people were killed in WWI?

    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other? Viciously and with extreme ruthlessness?

    Colonial history is a little fuzzy. You believe that less were killed in Quebec. It may or may not be the case, though in any event, we are talking about a very small difference. Numerically inconsequential compared to virtually any other conflict in human history. Likely, the Na-dene killed more in their march east and south.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other?
     
    iirc they also pretty much tried to destroy the colonies in New England during King Philip's war (the worst Indian war in North America ever), which killed a non-trivial percentage of the colonists (not inclined to look it up in detail now, but according to wiki about 20% of the male colonists of military age; and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance). So the colonists had reasons from personal experience to be embittered and hate the Indians, it wasn't just their interpretation of the OT or whatever the anti-Protestant commenters like AP and utu here seem to imagine.
    I agree with you more generally, today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird, @iffen, @AP

  636. @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do many folks really dislike the taste of kale that much? I started to employ it into my cooking regimen about a year ago, after a friend of mine brought over a salad he made with a lot of kale in it. I looked it up and found out that it's a treasure trove of excellent nutrients. I had already incorporated spinach the same way much earlier. They're both rather innocuous to my taste buds. An excellent addition to most any salad. I've started to saute both on a skillet with some olive oil and crushed garlic, and it tastes good to me. I'm making a chicken/vegetable soup today, and plan to add in both some kale and spinach. BTW, I like to juice both of them too.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Spinach is food. Broccoli is food. Brussels sprouts are food.

    Kale is not food. Collard greens are not food.

    /my_opinion : )

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I have the vague suspicion that many greens might actually do more harm than good, when you consider the risks of things like E. coli, listeria, and worms.

    At the very least, I would say don't play rabbit, when in the Third World, or any other place that might use night soil, or have lax standards or cleanliness, and that includes Puerto Rico.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @iffen
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Collard greens are not food.

    Collard greens, salt pork, cornbread and sweet potatoes are the only foods that God let us take from the Garden of Eden.

  637. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Maybe it's the English calling people from the Netherlands Dutch (which is the way Netherlanders call "German" - Duits).

    Replies: @songbird

    I think that is part of the reason. If they had been using Dutch or Deutsch for Germans, they might have stuck with it.

    But they weren’t because they were using it on the Hollanders, who were people they were concerned about, since they were a sea power, unlike the more distant German statelets.

    Of course, the Dutch and Germans are basically the same people. That is why it is a homonym. They were both using it to describe themselves, at one time.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Were. The Netherlands exist as distinct from Germany as a whole because of Dutch naval and commercial power. If the whole Lower Countries had stayed Habsburg, then it would have been unified into a part of a continental German state. (Likewise with Austria staying out of Germany)

    The Holy Roman Empire was actually as diverse as Western Slavdom in the Early Modern Age, or France before the massive centralization of the 17-18th centuries, or Italy up to the Unification. Only Nationalism consolidated those disparate regions.

    Replies: @AP

  638. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    Spinach is food. Broccoli is food. Brussels sprouts are food.

    Kale is not food. Collard greens are not food.

    /my_opinion : )

    Replies: @songbird, @iffen

    I have the vague suspicion that many greens might actually do more harm than good, when you consider the risks of things like E. coli, listeria, and worms.

    At the very least, I would say don’t play rabbit, when in the Third World, or any other place that might use night soil, or have lax standards or cleanliness, and that includes Puerto Rico.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I understand that a good rinsing is in order too, at least for kale where pesticides can be used and an issue. But your other admonishments, more so than for other vegetables? The cruciferous or cabbage family vegetables have so many great health benefits going for them.

    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cruciferous-vegetables-fact-sheet

    Replies: @songbird

  639. In the spirit of the season, let me present,
    Q&A: 13-Year-Old Welsh Treble Cai Thomas on His Album ‘Seren’ & Singing the ‘Pembrokeshire Murders’ Title Song ‘Suo Gân’ [Opera Wire, February 2021][1]

    Embedded in aricle linked above: YouTube video of a younger Cai Thomas singing Suo Gan,

    arranged by Don Fraser and accompanied by the Bourne Ensemble and the Choristers of St Thomas, conducted by Rob Lewis, recorded at St Thomas-on-The Bourne.


    Additional related photos below. Best wishes to all who have been civil toward me.

    [MORE]

    [1] Photo connected to article:
    Other photos:From the film Empire of the Sun (1987), 13-year-old Christian Bale lip-synchs Suo Gân.

    Cai Thomas:

  640. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @AP


    Protestsantism, as a heresy, has a lot of evil in it, and this is reflected in their negative role in history, including in the way that Protestants have generally treated Natives (and Irish).
     
    There were some pretty intense ethnic divisions ("the Pale") and conflict within Ireland, before the Reformation.

    You seem to view this as somehow delegitimizing the United States (it is not, because the alternative to the traditional USA is something worse)
     
    Ethics is consequence, not intention.

    Right now statues of the founding fathers are being pulled down. The West is being invaded at a pace that dwarfs any past invasion in history. Almost half of births in Belgium are to foreign mothers. Now is not the best time to be talking about putative sins of Europeans who lived hundreds of years ago.

    But didn’t you say that California benefited from its bays?
     
    My point was that Amerinds never developed a big civilization there, which shows that their agriculture still left something to be desired. The Central Valley is probably the best agricultural land in the US (with irrigation). I think it goes without saying that bays on the East coast are much better situated than bays on the West coast, from the perspective of colonization. No surprise that there are more Indians on the West coast, or in remote Arizona.

    You also chose not to address the well documented large number of Indian massacres in New England, compared to few right next door in Quebec.
     
    How many do you think were killed in the US, total, from 1600-1900? Was it even 5% of those killed in the war where the Spanish fought Amerinds who had cities? Was it even 10% of the number killed in Cromwell's conquest of Ireland? Were there not days on which more people were killed in WWI?

    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other? Viciously and with extreme ruthlessness?

    Colonial history is a little fuzzy. You believe that less were killed in Quebec. It may or may not be the case, though in any event, we are talking about a very small difference. Numerically inconsequential compared to virtually any other conflict in human history. Likely, the Na-dene killed more in their march east and south.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other?

    iirc they also pretty much tried to destroy the colonies in New England during King Philip’s war (the worst Indian war in North America ever), which killed a non-trivial percentage of the colonists (not inclined to look it up in detail now, but according to wiki about 20% of the male colonists of military age; and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance). So the colonists had reasons from personal experience to be embittered and hate the Indians, it wasn’t just their interpretation of the OT or whatever the anti-Protestant commenters like AP and utu here seem to imagine.
    I agree with you more generally, today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance
     
    I once visited the spot where Hannah Duston had her revenge, on Indians who killed her baby (They were from AP's peaceful Indians in Quebec). Someday, I would like to see the hatchet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Duston
    , @songbird
    @German_reader

    The article gives a estimate for a population ratio of 1:12, French settlers in Canada, to English settlers in the 13 colonies. It is interesting because that is fairly close to the population ratio between Canada and the US today. If the French had a different philosophy, I would say it is one based in geodeterminism.

    Another thing that I'd mention to AP is that the language of every Indian treaty I've ever seen was "hunting grounds", not what terms you would expect in Europe, like "plowlands."

    I don't hold it against the Indians that they fought, or that they were savages. I think it was part of the lifestyle and whites on the frontier exposed to that sort of fighting and hard life sometimes became nearly as savage.

    I have heard the argument expressed flatly "Whites have no right to complain about invasion." It just boils down to something so ridiculously silly that nobody would ever say it out loud:

    Euros conquered Amerinds in the time-honored contest of battle, violating their genetic interests* in the time-honored way, therefore Euros should break with tradition, lay down ignominiously, and have their genetic interests thoroughly violated.

    *Of course, the genetic interests of Indians are hard to calculate. Undoubtedly there are more net copies of Indian genes around today than ever before.

    , @iffen
    @German_reader

    today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    When would be a good time?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader, @songbird

    , @AP
    @German_reader

    That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries. The slaughters were mutual and cruel but the Colonists were at fault. They ended up slaughtering more Indians than vice versa.

    Note than when during a similar conflict some French colonists were slaughtered, the French administration prevented counter-massacres in order to promote peace between the peoples:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    “ They defended some of the fleeing colonists from their Mohawk pursuers, but just prior to reaching Lachine, the armed forces were recalled to Fort Rolland by the order of Governor Denonville, who was trying to pacify the local Iroquois inhabitants.[20] He had 700 soldiers at his disposal within the Montreal barracks and might have overtaken the Iroquois forces but decided to follow a diplomatic route.“

    It’s was a very different result than what happened during King Phillips War. But the French Catholics were just better people with a better worldview than the English Calvinists.

    I agree that bringing this stuff up in some sort of public campaign serves no good purpose. The comment section of this blog is not a public campaign.

    Replies: @German_reader

  641. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I have the vague suspicion that many greens might actually do more harm than good, when you consider the risks of things like E. coli, listeria, and worms.

    At the very least, I would say don't play rabbit, when in the Third World, or any other place that might use night soil, or have lax standards or cleanliness, and that includes Puerto Rico.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I understand that a good rinsing is in order too, at least for kale where pesticides can be used and an issue. But your other admonishments, more so than for other vegetables? The cruciferous or cabbage family vegetables have so many great health benefits going for them.

    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cruciferous-vegetables-fact-sheet

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    I was mainly trying to express my prejudice against salads.

    I quite like cabbage, when it has been heavily boiled, and denuded of its vitamins.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  642. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    Spinach is food. Broccoli is food. Brussels sprouts are food.

    Kale is not food. Collard greens are not food.

    /my_opinion : )

    Replies: @songbird, @iffen

    Collard greens are not food.

    Collard greens, salt pork, cornbread and sweet potatoes are the only foods that God let us take from the Garden of Eden.

  643. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other?
     
    iirc they also pretty much tried to destroy the colonies in New England during King Philip's war (the worst Indian war in North America ever), which killed a non-trivial percentage of the colonists (not inclined to look it up in detail now, but according to wiki about 20% of the male colonists of military age; and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance). So the colonists had reasons from personal experience to be embittered and hate the Indians, it wasn't just their interpretation of the OT or whatever the anti-Protestant commenters like AP and utu here seem to imagine.
    I agree with you more generally, today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird, @iffen, @AP

    and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance

    I once visited the spot where Hannah Duston had her revenge, on Indians who killed her baby (They were from AP’s peaceful Indians in Quebec). Someday, I would like to see the hatchet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Duston

  644. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I understand that a good rinsing is in order too, at least for kale where pesticides can be used and an issue. But your other admonishments, more so than for other vegetables? The cruciferous or cabbage family vegetables have so many great health benefits going for them.

    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cruciferous-vegetables-fact-sheet

    Replies: @songbird

    I was mainly trying to express my prejudice against salads.

    I quite like cabbage, when it has been heavily boiled, and denuded of its vitamins.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    There are plenty of ways to eat kale or spinach without salads.

    I am personally in favor of the frittata for breakfast approach. Some bacon or sausage along with a sauteed onion and garlic, kale or spinach, maybe some mushroom in egg topped with cheese and finished in the broiler till crisp and bubbly is a kingly breakfast. Especially with a slab of buttery toast and coffee.

    Delicious and nutritious!

    (Hmmm. This is apparently what happens when I comment just after breakfast...)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

  645. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other?
     
    iirc they also pretty much tried to destroy the colonies in New England during King Philip's war (the worst Indian war in North America ever), which killed a non-trivial percentage of the colonists (not inclined to look it up in detail now, but according to wiki about 20% of the male colonists of military age; and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance). So the colonists had reasons from personal experience to be embittered and hate the Indians, it wasn't just their interpretation of the OT or whatever the anti-Protestant commenters like AP and utu here seem to imagine.
    I agree with you more generally, today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird, @iffen, @AP

    The article gives a estimate for a population ratio of 1:12, French settlers in Canada, to English settlers in the 13 colonies. It is interesting because that is fairly close to the population ratio between Canada and the US today. If the French had a different philosophy, I would say it is one based in geodeterminism.

    Another thing that I’d mention to AP is that the language of every Indian treaty I’ve ever seen was “hunting grounds”, not what terms you would expect in Europe, like “plowlands.”

    I don’t hold it against the Indians that they fought, or that they were savages. I think it was part of the lifestyle and whites on the frontier exposed to that sort of fighting and hard life sometimes became nearly as savage.

    I have heard the argument expressed flatly “Whites have no right to complain about invasion.” It just boils down to something so ridiculously silly that nobody would ever say it out loud:

    Euros conquered Amerinds in the time-honored contest of battle, violating their genetic interests* in the time-honored way, therefore Euros should break with tradition, lay down ignominiously, and have their genetic interests thoroughly violated.

    *Of course, the genetic interests of Indians are hard to calculate. Undoubtedly there are more net copies of Indian genes around today than ever before.

  646. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other?
     
    iirc they also pretty much tried to destroy the colonies in New England during King Philip's war (the worst Indian war in North America ever), which killed a non-trivial percentage of the colonists (not inclined to look it up in detail now, but according to wiki about 20% of the male colonists of military age; and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance). So the colonists had reasons from personal experience to be embittered and hate the Indians, it wasn't just their interpretation of the OT or whatever the anti-Protestant commenters like AP and utu here seem to imagine.
    I agree with you more generally, today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird, @iffen, @AP

    today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    When would be a good time?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @iffen

    It's history. And none of us knows what really happened. History is a set of lies agreed on &c.

    Lyndon Larouche's cult thinks the colonists and the Indians would have got along perfectly fine if the British and French war masters over in Europe had not been constantly stirring up crap to keep the colonists from getting too big for their britches.

    See this book for example (which is really fascinating but no more credible than any other history.)

    https://www.amazon.com/How-Nation-Was-Won-1630-1754/dp/1730846556/

    , @German_reader
    @iffen

    Probably never. Personally I'm in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there's almost always an agenda of the "group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior", often coupled with specific material demands. In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one's own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    Replies: @iffen, @Yahya, @Yahya

    , @songbird
    @iffen

    Might I suggest somewhere on the downward slope, after we hit 750 million Nigerians?

  647. @iffen
    @German_reader

    today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    When would be a good time?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader, @songbird

    It’s history. And none of us knows what really happened. History is a set of lies agreed on &c.

    Lyndon Larouche’s cult thinks the colonists and the Indians would have got along perfectly fine if the British and French war masters over in Europe had not been constantly stirring up crap to keep the colonists from getting too big for their britches.

    See this book for example (which is really fascinating but no more credible than any other history.)

  648. German_reader says:
    @iffen
    @German_reader

    today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    When would be a good time?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader, @songbird

    Probably never. Personally I’m in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there’s almost always an agenda of the “group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior”, often coupled with specific material demands. In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one’s own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @German_reader

    In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one’s own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    I don't call what we did to the American Indians a crime. I don't even consider slavery in the American South a crime. Now, if we did those things today, sure, criminal. Do I wish that we had dealt more fairly (whatever that might mean) with the Indians? Sure. Do I wish my ancestors (and I mean some actual ancestors that I know from genealogical research) had turned against slavery sooner? Sure. I even wish that my people had turned against Jim Crow sooner. I look at the end result. Where we are now.

    Do I feel bad about all the deaths and displaced peoples in the Middle East that are a direct result of our incompetent and flawed policies? Sure I do. I can only hope that we are moving away from those types of misadventures. In the meantime, about all I can do is support less interventionist politicians going forward.

    Personally I’m in favour of historical truth

    I'm in favor of historical accuracy as well. I don't see how you could get toward that goal without writing about it and discussing it.

    I fully understand your complaint about the victim industry, but we can't really control what other people think. We can only point out that the victim/oppressor lens is insufficient to get to a better understanding of that history.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Yahya
    @German_reader

    Re, Natufians: don’t know much about them in-depth to be able to give an answer of much substance. But from what I’ve read, the Natufian culture emerged in the Levant region (Palestine/Israel, Jordan and Syria) at about 15,000 BC and lasted until 11,500 BC. It’s notable for being one of the first permanent sedentary settlement in the world. Prior to the Natufians, bands of people had moved seasonally, to follow animals for hunting and to gather available plants. The Natufians set the stage for the first complex civilizations by being the first to build permanent homes and developing the tools and techniques necessary to cultivate edible plants. Though they relied on traditional hunting and gathering (primarily of fish, gazelles and wild cereals) for most of their sustenance, Natufians were also capable of producing large quantities of groat meals from roasted, “half green” barley grain. Moreover, they made advances in agro-technical systems which made it possible to produce the fine flour needed for what has become the world’s most widespread staple food: bread.

    At Natufian sites is also some of the earliest archaeological evidence of dog domestication. At the Natufian site of Ain Mallaha in Israel/Palestine, dated to 12,000 B.C., an elderly human and a four-to-five-month-old puppy were found buried together. At another Natufian site, the cave of Hayonim, humans were found buried with two dogs.

    This is a good source for more on the Natufian culture: https://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub362/entry-6006.html


    tbh I think neither you nor I know enough about India to really have any idea what is behind the differences between north and south India. I doubt it can be reduced merely to Portuguese rule or Catholicism, there must be many other factors (there are vast differences between the regions after all, linguistically, culturally, in the caste system…arguably the people in north and south India aren’t even the same genetically).

     

    The first thing to understand about South Asians is that they are more alike to each other, genetically speaking, than they are to non-South Asian groups. Some Northwest Indian groups like Kashmiri Pandits like to think of themselves as being racially different from the darker Indians in the South and East; due to their more West Asian-like appearance. But genetics indicates that Northwest Indians/Pakistanis are still more related to other South Asians than to West Asians or Europeans.

    More broadly, all South Asian groups can be thought of as a mixture between two populations, which, before their mixture, were as different racially from each other as Europeans are from East Asians:

    (A) Ancestral North Indians (ANI) - The ANI are a West Eurasian (i.e. Caucasoid) population closely related to Europeans, Near Easterners, and people of the Caucasus. They are comprised of 30% Indo-Aryan steppe pastoralists (Sintashta) and 70% Indus Valley (IVC) people. IVC stands for “Indus Valley Civilization”, a people who developed the ancient IV civilization and were themselves composed of (a) 65% Iranian farmers who migrated to Pakistan/Northwest India, (b) 25% Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), and (c) 10% Paleo-Siberian. A Kashmiri Pandit Brahmin from the far north is about 70% ANI and 30% ASI. The Kalash people of Northwest Pakistan are close to 100% ANI, hence their West Asian/European appearance. A member of the lower castes in South India are only 30% ANI, and 70% ASI.

    (B) Ancestral South Indians (ASI) - The ASI descend from a population not related to any present-day populations outside India. They are closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands in the Southeast Bay of Bengal. The Andaman Islanders have a very Negroid-like appearance and are notably black-skinned, not brown. ASI is itself derived from (a) 70% Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), and (b) 30% IVC people. The Paliyar tribe of South India are almost 100% ASI, meaning they lack the Indo-Aryan steppe component found in the North.

    Since the Indo-Aryan people are perhaps the most significant population to have affected the trajectory of Indian history, I’ll touch more upon them here. One key thing to keep in mind about the Sintashta people is that, while they would almost certainly be labeled “white” by today’s conceptions, they were probably not the blonde, blue-eyed Nordic-looking people usually visualized when one thinks about Aryans. Based on genomic data, the Sintashta people were mostly dark brown or black-haired, and only a small minority had blue eyes.

    In terms of genetics, about 15% of the ancestry among modern South Asians can be attributed to people from the steppe. In the Northwest, it is closer to 25%. Among Brahmins across the North, the figure hovers around 30%, while Brahmins in the South are about 20% steppe. Peasants in the Gangetic plain are closer to 15% steppe. Dalits in the North have less than non-Dalit cultivators, while Dalits and tribal people in the South have almost no steppe ancestry. Within South Asia, the Jatt farmers of Punjab seem to be the group with the most steppe ancestry.

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1916a186fa5c2833ee6c73aeeebbc464-pjlq


    Additionally, most steppe ancestry is carried on the paternal side of modern Indians, suggesting that male Aryan invaders mixed with (or more brutally, raped) the local natives they invaded ~3,000 years ago. About 25% of South Asian males share the Indo-Aryan R1A haplogroup, with the highest fractions found in the Northwest, among Indo-Aryan speakers (who account for over 80% of the people of the subcontinent) and in Brahmin communities.


    https://s01.sgp1.digitaloceanspaces.com/large/874102-85930-hlmhnnzqzl-1522612375.jpeg


    North Indian:


    https://images.indianexpress.com/2019/10/Tamannaah-Bhatia-759.jpg


    South Indian:


    https://thenewsmen.co.in/public/upload/news/story_image_1625142415.jpg


    Kashmiri Pandit (70% ANI, 30% ASI):


    https://images.hindustantimes.com/img/2021/11/13/1600x900/7162b140-44b7-11ec-9093-36a2136aa648_1636835929964.jpg


    Kalash Tribe (~100% ANI):


    https://i0.wp.com/www.yoair.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/kalash-valley-people.jpg?w=800&ssl=1


    Paliyar Tribe (~100% ASI):


    https://dz01iyojmxk8t.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/21175637/IMG_20200514_121617.jpg


    Andaman Islanders (100% AASI):


    https://www.asiangeo.com/2019/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/175095813-1068x693.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Probably never. Personally I’m in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there’s almost always an agenda of the “group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior”, often coupled with specific material demands.
     
    You can't be in favor of historical truth if the first thing that comes to your mind when historical claims are made are the socio-political implications of such claims. You also can't be interested in historical truth if your only source of self-esteem comes from your group identity, and so you refuse to countenance any harm done by your group towards others.

    This was made obvious to me a while back on AE's blog, when a claim was made against Churchill being partly culpable for the Bengal famine of 1943, and a particularly deranged commenter, who was obviously tied up in his perceived racial identity to an unusual and odd degree, started whining like a little bitch and nonsensically claiming that an obscure comment on an obscure website was somehow going to lead to more Indian immigration to the West. The commenter then presumptuously proceeded to attempt to shut down factual discussions of the Bengal famine, by making even more inane socio-political arguments against discussing the famine.

    It's hard not to suspect that these sort of reactions are more motivated by feelings being hurt than any historical or even socio-political basis. Especially because, when supposed "ancestors" are involved, loser-types whose only source self-esteem comes from their "ancestors" start getting their panties in a wad over minor criticisms of past political leaders. This was also true of the previously-mentioned commenter, who deluded himself into thinking that Churchill was somehow his ancestor, and so took criticism of him as a personal affront, even though it was a mathematical near-impossibility that any 1940s British leader was an ancestor of an Irish-American (Lol!) such as the commenter in question.

    But anyway, that is just one example of politics and feelings trumping facts and truth when it comes to discussing history. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of that in today's academia; and it's not a good trend for those who hold objectivity and truth as paramount values when it comes to discussing history.

    Replies: @German_reader

  649. @iffen
    @German_reader

    today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    When would be a good time?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader, @songbird

    Might I suggest somewhere on the downward slope, after we hit 750 million Nigerians?

  650. Wonder what percent of modern lesbianism is a direct result of what libertarians call “Big Government.”

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Extremely little if you throw away the state's role in encouraging the building of cultural institutions, which is still quite small (the Cathedral works fine by itself)

    Replies: @songbird

  651. @songbird
    Wonder what percent of modern lesbianism is a direct result of what libertarians call "Big Government."

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Extremely little if you throw away the state’s role in encouraging the building of cultural institutions, which is still quite small (the Cathedral works fine by itself)

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon


    Wonder what percent of modern lesbianism is a direct result of what libertarians call “Big Government.

    Extremely little if you throw away the state’s role in encouraging the building of cultural institutions, which is still quite small (the Cathedral works fine by itself)
     
    There seem to be a lot of instances of lesbian alloparenting, in cases of women who are essentially single moms (though sometimes remarry lesbians). It is an interesting phenomenon. Maybe, that means, less are on welfare, than would be the case otherwise?

    I don't want to accuse lesbians of conspiracy, but it is easy to see how they benefit from the regime in various ways (such as many attaining high, well-paid positions in bureaucracies) and how they are for the regime, including open borders. Tools that crush down men and probably increase their sexual opportunities.
  652. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    I think that is part of the reason. If they had been using Dutch or Deutsch for Germans, they might have stuck with it.

    But they weren't because they were using it on the Hollanders, who were people they were concerned about, since they were a sea power, unlike the more distant German statelets.

    Of course, the Dutch and Germans are basically the same people. That is why it is a homonym. They were both using it to describe themselves, at one time.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    Were. The Netherlands exist as distinct from Germany as a whole because of Dutch naval and commercial power. If the whole Lower Countries had stayed Habsburg, then it would have been unified into a part of a continental German state. (Likewise with Austria staying out of Germany)

    The Holy Roman Empire was actually as diverse as Western Slavdom in the Early Modern Age, or France before the massive centralization of the 17-18th centuries, or Italy up to the Unification. Only Nationalism consolidated those disparate regions.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Yellowface Anon

    The Dutch language is about as different from
    German as Ukrainian is from Russian. If the Netherlands had been politically absorbed into Germany, might the Dutch plus Low German speakers have coalesced into some larger non-German nation than the Dutch alone? The German-French wars would have provided space for such a development.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  653. @Barbarossa
    @sher singh

    Yes, how droll. Care to elaborate?
    I'm guessing that depicts the glorious victory of the Hindu's over the decadent cow-killing West or some-such? Who is the fellow about to get his head chopped? I'm not up enough on the details of the Indian sub-continent to follow it exactly. I thought you were Sikh anyhow?

    Replies: @sher singh

    http://www.krishna.com/you-can-talk-peace-till-cows-come-home

    Westerners worship cows whether as Hera, Evropa, Audumbla etc.

    The west is currently in the shackles of Christianity which Khalsa will free||

    The picture is Maharaja Parikshit fighting Kali Yuga which begins with cow slaughter||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  654. @songbird
    @sher singh

    Only applies to Indian breeds and/or cows in India.

    And it is a sensible law, as most Indians are obligate vegetarians, like Larry Niven's puppeteers:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierson's_Puppeteers

    Replies: @sher singh

    ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਇ ਆਮਿਖ ਭਖੈ, ਬਿੱਪ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੋ ਖਾਇ ।
    A Sikh is one who eats meat, a Brahmin is one who does not.

    ਉਦਯ ਅਸਤ ਸਾਮੁਦ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਯੰਤੰ, ਅਬਿਚਲ ਰਾਜ ਮਿਲਯੋ ਸੁਰਪੁਰ ਕੋ ॥੪॥
    From where the sun rises to where it sets, across all the oceans, the Khalsa has received Eternal Kingdom from the Heavens.

    [MORE]

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @songbird
    @sher singh

    I was amazed to hear somewhere that India is the #1 beef exporter - water buffalo.

    Interesting animal. They say that the Ottomans used them to drag their battering rams when they entered Europe. Curious how it also seems to give a lot of milk (most in Pakistan), and was domesticated in India but is not considered a sacred animal.

    Never eaten it. Have the idea that it is full of worms, since aquatic. Not that there is anything wrong with that, if properly cooked. But if Indians ever triumph in their struggle against Pakistan and the Chinese, then American bison will probably be my first fallback.

  655. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa


    pictures so profoundly depressing. Those are very anti-human places.

     

    It reminds of.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHdFd2RKRSI


    1:43 is like a commentary about modern Israel.


    terrible for the children
     
    Well there was a famous scandal in Russia, where some politicians were saying the country should ban Japanese anime and manga, because a teenage girl (who loved anime and manga) has killed herself by jumping out of the window of a building.

    But this girl's parents had moved a few months earlier into the district in my post above (the one with the traffic jams). So theoretically, you can blame architecture as much as manga.

    That said, I think children would not care as much about bad architecture compared to adults. They can be happy anywhere. Children respond to the emotional atmosphere of their family and school. I was happy as a child, while I was growing up surrounded by the world's worst architecture.

    I would also add that the building's architecture by themselves is probably not what causes an emotional stress. It's more likely the social situation of the architecture.

    That is, if you have to live in an anthill, where the social context implies like are being treated like a battery hen. If the people who build this, lived in those buildings, instead of Italianate houses in London, then the social situation would be less alienating.

    If you lived in a society where it is prestigious to live in a small square box, then it might not be emotionally stressful at all. In Ancient Sparta, the aristocrats can live in a communal barracks.

    Also notice that luxury buildings today do not necessarily have any better level of aesthetics from the anthill. And yet, people consider them to happy to live in.

    http://images.dailyhive.com/20180412143735/shutterstock_782459317-1.jpg

    You have the same square buildings, but a very different context.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    I read stories of 60s families in HK having excellent communal life despite living in awful Social Housing designs. It was a carryover of an ordered chaos from the Chinese streetscape, what you would imagine to happen in Kowloon Wall City but cleaner. It took a turn for the worse when the hyperindividualist middle-class lifestyle was imported in the 80s along with all the industry being moved to Mainland China.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yellowface Anon

    This sadness for loss of communal life that had been carried from the villages, is one of the main themes of Soviet popular culture of the 1970s.

    By the 1970s, in the popul culture there a nostalgia of the time that the communal life of the villages had carried to the cities in the first generation of internal immigrants, which was re-enforced by the barracks and the communal apartments of the earlier decades of the Soviet housing policy.

    The village life was able to internally immigrate to the corridors of the buildings, if only in the first generation of internal immigrants.

    You can see 1970s popular culture was viewing as picturesque 1950s corridor life already e.g. 46:00 in the video (this video is a Soviet pop film of the late 1970s).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7GuhjGZ-xs


    stories of 60s families in HK having excellent communal life despite living in awful Social Housing

     

    Do you watch the Japanese films of Ozu? This is one of the topics he is often portraying in the postwar films, going to this theme in different ways in the different films.
  656. God Jul, folks. Instead of focusing on materialism, we should think about the poor and the downtrodden.

    Belarus-Poland border crisis has become a roadblock for illegal Indian migrants in Europe

    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.

    Singh does not know much about his son’s friends. “When he used to call, he used to say that one is from Jalandhar, one is from Ludhiana and one is Jamsher. They were all from distant villages. They didn’t know each other here. They met there.”

    “He had never travelled abroad. This was his first visit and that is why he got caught in this difficult situation. He didn’t know anything,” said Singh. Sometime in September this year, Hardeep packed his bags and left India. “He went to Russia telling us he would go to work there. He lived and worked there for 1.5 months. Approximately a month after he reached, someone instigated him, brainwashed him. They filled his head with rubbish that he would be able to do this and that in Europe.”

    “They used a donker. It is a code word,” Sharma said of the four men who found themselves stranded in between Belarus and Poland. The origins of the word ‘donker’ is not clear, but it may have Indian roots, from the word ‘donkey’, used for transportation, and is now widely in the business of illegal immigration. In Europe, the word ‘donker’ is used for a car service that ferries migrants from one country and leaves them at the border of another.

    Nadeem Jatt operates a donker service across this region but did not want to speak about his business in detail because of the work it entails. On Sharma’s referral, Jatt reached the Belarus-Poland border to help the four men leave. “The last time the boys contacted me, I told them to wait for me at a specific spot. Then within a few minutes the boys and their acquaintances…took over and began coordinating their own thing,” Jatt told indianexpress.com. It was during this time that the four men began searching for cheaper donker services.

    It may just have been a decision that added to their difficulties. It is unclear what happened to the four men at the border, but their presence there that week coincided with an escalation in pushbacks of migrants by Polish border guards. Ocalenie Foundation, a Polish organisation that helps migrants and refugees, had reported that the Polish border guards were also taking away phones from migrants and pushing them back towards Belarus, from where they were eventually being deported. None of the four men responded to indianexpress.com’s requests for interviews and soon after, their phones were reportedly confiscated by the Polish border guards.

    “Getting a Belarusian or a Russian visa is relatively easier than getting a Schengen visa. The men come here and then they sneak into the Polish and Lithuanian border, because up until recently, they were pretty porous borders,” said an Indian national in Belarus, who has lived in the country for over three decades, requesting anonymity.

    This past week, Singh finally heard from his son. Hardeep told his family that he was back in Russia with his three friends after being deported by Belarus and had found accommodation in the city. “He is unemployed now—vella—but he is all right,” Singh said. “We thought that he would work in Russia and collect some money and manage his living expenses. After he had collected enough, he would come back and then we would see what to do next.”

    That week, Belarusian officials began clearing makeshift camps that migrants had set up on the Belarusian side of the border, moving migrants to a nearby processing center. Some migrants, having lost hope, started to head back to their countries of origin. Others like Hardeep and his friends have stayed back in the region, still clinging on to their dreams of reaching Western Europe.

    Migration is not a crime.

    • Disagree: German_reader, LatW
    • Replies: @iffen
    @Thulean Friend

    Migration is not a crime.

    The real crime is lax, arbitrary, and haphazard non-enforcement of immigration law.

    , @silviosilver
    @Thulean Friend


    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.
     
    Thulean fag advocating for his pajeet kin.

    Migration is not a crime.
     
    Nothing is a crime until humans decide it is. And migration most assuredly should be considered a crime. From a societal perspective, it's a far more damaging crime than rape. Even if rapes increased tenfold, the vast majority of people would remain unaffected. If immigration increased tenfold, it would be almost impossible to be unaffected by it. In most cases, the harm from increased immigration is only psychological, but with rape, if a woman puts up only minimal resistance, she can come away from it without a scratch, so the harm in that case is "only" psychological too. One might wish to cite cultural degradation and race-replacement "genocide" here too, but the harm in those is not actually physical; the mental anguish arises from understanding what is in store for your people.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    , @LatW
    @Thulean Friend

    Who would be the "poor and downtrodden" here? Grown men who use "donker" (trafficker) services and deliberately break foreign countries' laws?

    What happened on the Polish border this year was tragic, but it needed to be done in order to stop the creation of a migration route in the Baltic region. It is true that some migrants suffer heavily in Belarus. People should be treated with dignity, but people should also be held responsible for their deliberate actions.

    Illegal migration is a crime.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  657. @German_reader
    @iffen

    Probably never. Personally I'm in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there's almost always an agenda of the "group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior", often coupled with specific material demands. In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one's own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    Replies: @iffen, @Yahya, @Yahya

    In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one’s own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    I don’t call what we did to the American Indians a crime. I don’t even consider slavery in the American South a crime. Now, if we did those things today, sure, criminal. Do I wish that we had dealt more fairly (whatever that might mean) with the Indians? Sure. Do I wish my ancestors (and I mean some actual ancestors that I know from genealogical research) had turned against slavery sooner? Sure. I even wish that my people had turned against Jim Crow sooner. I look at the end result. Where we are now.

    Do I feel bad about all the deaths and displaced peoples in the Middle East that are a direct result of our incompetent and flawed policies? Sure I do. I can only hope that we are moving away from those types of misadventures. In the meantime, about all I can do is support less interventionist politicians going forward.

    Personally I’m in favour of historical truth

    I’m in favor of historical accuracy as well. I don’t see how you could get toward that goal without writing about it and discussing it.

    I fully understand your complaint about the victim industry, but we can’t really control what other people think. We can only point out that the victim/oppressor lens is insufficient to get to a better understanding of that history.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @iffen


    In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one’s own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    I don’t call what we did to the American Indians a crime. I don’t even consider slavery in the American South a crime.
     

    Crime is wrong terminology. It was an ideology, a set of beliefs, an (economic) system, allowing for a lot of individual crimes. Calling a way of life "crime" makes no sense, we may as well refer to any system as criminal, certainly Catholicism, Reformation, all revolutionary systems, etc...contained a lot of crimes.

    More relevant is to what extent is the underlying mentality of a group derived from that past behaviour. In a simplistic way, the current American interventionism and exceptionalism evolved from the past - same solipsism, same hunger for resources, same desire to avoid multi-generational hard work.

    In Germany's case there was a forced break after WWII, but then the same underlying preachy, humourless, hard-working, resentful self-regard reappeared - of course in a different form given the constraints. But in the revived Drang nach Osten by Madame "green" Baerbock one can see the German past. Maybe disarming her wouldn't be so bad.

  658. @Thulean Friend
    God Jul, folks. Instead of focusing on materialism, we should think about the poor and the downtrodden.

    Belarus-Poland border crisis has become a roadblock for illegal Indian migrants in Europe

    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.

    Singh does not know much about his son’s friends. “When he used to call, he used to say that one is from Jalandhar, one is from Ludhiana and one is Jamsher. They were all from distant villages. They didn’t know each other here. They met there.”

    “He had never travelled abroad. This was his first visit and that is why he got caught in this difficult situation. He didn’t know anything,” said Singh. Sometime in September this year, Hardeep packed his bags and left India. “He went to Russia telling us he would go to work there. He lived and worked there for 1.5 months. Approximately a month after he reached, someone instigated him, brainwashed him. They filled his head with rubbish that he would be able to do this and that in Europe.”

    “They used a donker. It is a code word,” Sharma said of the four men who found themselves stranded in between Belarus and Poland. The origins of the word ‘donker’ is not clear, but it may have Indian roots, from the word ‘donkey’, used for transportation, and is now widely in the business of illegal immigration. In Europe, the word ‘donker’ is used for a car service that ferries migrants from one country and leaves them at the border of another.

    Nadeem Jatt operates a donker service across this region but did not want to speak about his business in detail because of the work it entails. On Sharma’s referral, Jatt reached the Belarus-Poland border to help the four men leave. “The last time the boys contacted me, I told them to wait for me at a specific spot. Then within a few minutes the boys and their acquaintances…took over and began coordinating their own thing,” Jatt told indianexpress.com. It was during this time that the four men began searching for cheaper donker services.

    It may just have been a decision that added to their difficulties. It is unclear what happened to the four men at the border, but their presence there that week coincided with an escalation in pushbacks of migrants by Polish border guards. Ocalenie Foundation, a Polish organisation that helps migrants and refugees, had reported that the Polish border guards were also taking away phones from migrants and pushing them back towards Belarus, from where they were eventually being deported. None of the four men responded to indianexpress.com’s requests for interviews and soon after, their phones were reportedly confiscated by the Polish border guards.

    “Getting a Belarusian or a Russian visa is relatively easier than getting a Schengen visa. The men come here and then they sneak into the Polish and Lithuanian border, because up until recently, they were pretty porous borders,” said an Indian national in Belarus, who has lived in the country for over three decades, requesting anonymity.

    This past week, Singh finally heard from his son. Hardeep told his family that he was back in Russia with his three friends after being deported by Belarus and had found accommodation in the city. “He is unemployed now—vella—but he is all right,” Singh said. “We thought that he would work in Russia and collect some money and manage his living expenses. After he had collected enough, he would come back and then we would see what to do next.”

    That week, Belarusian officials began clearing makeshift camps that migrants had set up on the Belarusian side of the border, moving migrants to a nearby processing center. Some migrants, having lost hope, started to head back to their countries of origin. Others like Hardeep and his friends have stayed back in the region, still clinging on to their dreams of reaching Western Europe.


     

    Migration is not a crime.

    Replies: @iffen, @silviosilver, @LatW

    Migration is not a crime.

    The real crime is lax, arbitrary, and haphazard non-enforcement of immigration law.

  659. @German_reader
    @songbird

    I agree pretty much with everything with in your comment. But honestly, the attitude of a lot of American mainstream right-wingers is also a huge problem in this regard, and you even see it on this site. Just a few days today Sailer posted something about Denmark, and included a casual throwaway line how Swedes had reason to feel guilty over their country's role in WW2, presumably because of their ore deliveries to Germany, and the transit of German troops to Norway (decisions which weren't uncontroversial in WW2 Sweden, but were seen as necessary to protect Swedish interests, and must also be seen against the background of German demands for more wide-ranging concessions, which were rejected). It doesn't seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    Replies: @songbird, @Max Demian, @silviosilver

    It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.

    I don’t think Sailer is serious about that though. I have every confidence he started out in life that way, but he’s seen and learned too much in the intervening decades to really believe it. I think he just makes statements like that whenever he feels that he needs to sound more moderate. The reason is that ever since getting into hereditarian realism, he’s been dragged further and further whitewards. Do you remember him from a decade or so ago, when everything was NAM this and NAM that? That was a lot milder than the sorts of things he been focusing on more recently.

    The NAM stuff was more analytical in nature. It touched on pro-white issues, but it never said directly to whites, hey idiots, wake up, you have racial interests that are being brazenly trampled by all and sundry. The NAM stuff was analysis of the “how race works in society” variety. Far too edgy for the average libtard, to be sure, but a sizeable portion of the Jewish population is actually quite comfortable with it. It’s the kind of conversation they can control. Sure, it may make them nervous, and the risks are obvious, but it also means they can keep intellectual whites endlessly tied up in conversation and polite debate until the clock runs out.

    But Sailer’s blog also attracted a lot of unapologetic pro-white types, unconcerned with (though wise to) Jewish sensibilities, and over time I think they had some effect on Sailer, pulling him closer to their own position. Sailer himself isn’t exactly sure what he stands for, and I think he periodically feels that he’s gone “too far,” so he pulls back with “safety” statements – comments that are in line with other positions he has taken, but resolve any ambiguities to the safe side of the ledger. Of course, to the mainstream he remains a “white supremacist racist anti-semite”, but in his own estimation it helps him feel more moderate. That’s my take on it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @silviosilver


    I don’t think Sailer is serious about that though.
     
    Just look at Sailer's snarky replies to commenter "John Regan" in this thread (note: I don't agree with "John Regan", at least not fully, imo his revisionism goes too far):
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/pearl-harbor/

    Then compare that with his non-reaction to the bloodthirsty commenter "Johann Ricke" (who thinks the Allies would have been morally justified in killing every single Japanese and German. Ricke has a long history of similar comments, and unsurprisingly he's also advocated bombing Iran in the past, or that Israel should nuke Germany and other former Axis countries if threatened with defeat, so it isn't merely a historical question).
    Anyway, I don't care much about Sailer and his blog, but whenever I read his comments' section I find something to remind me why in the end I'm not all that sympathetic to MAGA (A123's comments here serve a similar function).

    Replies: @silviosilver, @A123

  660. @Thulean Friend
    God Jul, folks. Instead of focusing on materialism, we should think about the poor and the downtrodden.

    Belarus-Poland border crisis has become a roadblock for illegal Indian migrants in Europe

    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.

    Singh does not know much about his son’s friends. “When he used to call, he used to say that one is from Jalandhar, one is from Ludhiana and one is Jamsher. They were all from distant villages. They didn’t know each other here. They met there.”

    “He had never travelled abroad. This was his first visit and that is why he got caught in this difficult situation. He didn’t know anything,” said Singh. Sometime in September this year, Hardeep packed his bags and left India. “He went to Russia telling us he would go to work there. He lived and worked there for 1.5 months. Approximately a month after he reached, someone instigated him, brainwashed him. They filled his head with rubbish that he would be able to do this and that in Europe.”

    “They used a donker. It is a code word,” Sharma said of the four men who found themselves stranded in between Belarus and Poland. The origins of the word ‘donker’ is not clear, but it may have Indian roots, from the word ‘donkey’, used for transportation, and is now widely in the business of illegal immigration. In Europe, the word ‘donker’ is used for a car service that ferries migrants from one country and leaves them at the border of another.

    Nadeem Jatt operates a donker service across this region but did not want to speak about his business in detail because of the work it entails. On Sharma’s referral, Jatt reached the Belarus-Poland border to help the four men leave. “The last time the boys contacted me, I told them to wait for me at a specific spot. Then within a few minutes the boys and their acquaintances…took over and began coordinating their own thing,” Jatt told indianexpress.com. It was during this time that the four men began searching for cheaper donker services.

    It may just have been a decision that added to their difficulties. It is unclear what happened to the four men at the border, but their presence there that week coincided with an escalation in pushbacks of migrants by Polish border guards. Ocalenie Foundation, a Polish organisation that helps migrants and refugees, had reported that the Polish border guards were also taking away phones from migrants and pushing them back towards Belarus, from where they were eventually being deported. None of the four men responded to indianexpress.com’s requests for interviews and soon after, their phones were reportedly confiscated by the Polish border guards.

    “Getting a Belarusian or a Russian visa is relatively easier than getting a Schengen visa. The men come here and then they sneak into the Polish and Lithuanian border, because up until recently, they were pretty porous borders,” said an Indian national in Belarus, who has lived in the country for over three decades, requesting anonymity.

    This past week, Singh finally heard from his son. Hardeep told his family that he was back in Russia with his three friends after being deported by Belarus and had found accommodation in the city. “He is unemployed now—vella—but he is all right,” Singh said. “We thought that he would work in Russia and collect some money and manage his living expenses. After he had collected enough, he would come back and then we would see what to do next.”

    That week, Belarusian officials began clearing makeshift camps that migrants had set up on the Belarusian side of the border, moving migrants to a nearby processing center. Some migrants, having lost hope, started to head back to their countries of origin. Others like Hardeep and his friends have stayed back in the region, still clinging on to their dreams of reaching Western Europe.


     

    Migration is not a crime.

    Replies: @iffen, @silviosilver, @LatW

    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.

    Thulean fag advocating for his pajeet kin.

    Migration is not a crime.

    Nothing is a crime until humans decide it is. And migration most assuredly should be considered a crime. From a societal perspective, it’s a far more damaging crime than rape. Even if rapes increased tenfold, the vast majority of people would remain unaffected. If immigration increased tenfold, it would be almost impossible to be unaffected by it. In most cases, the harm from increased immigration is only psychological, but with rape, if a woman puts up only minimal resistance, she can come away from it without a scratch, so the harm in that case is “only” psychological too. One might wish to cite cultural degradation and race-replacement “genocide” here too, but the harm in those is not actually physical; the mental anguish arises from understanding what is in store for your people.

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @silviosilver


    In most cases, the harm from increased immigration is only psychological, but with rape, if a woman puts up only minimal resistance, she can come away from it without a scratch, so the harm in that case is “only” psychological too
     
    Wow, I suddenly support mass migration after hearing this take. Rape is a capital offence, and a crime against father & husband (social order).

    Anyone who views woman as an individual is shirking duty to protect them, just scum.

    Imagine someone who supports cow slaughter also unironically supporting rape. Not the I took her by force, and she liked it variety; but the I'm a sweaty Italian and mistook her for a man, one.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @silviosilver

  661. @songbird
    Every time I go to Youtube, I feel like a British officer during the first minute of the Sepoy Rebellion.

    I click on a video with an English title and description. I hear the first sentence or two in a sing-song Indian voice, that makes me feel a bit uneasy, before I am suddenly bushwhacked with an incomprehensible stream of babble so jarring and alien that I can only presume it must be Hindi.

    For all I know, they might be saying "To arms! Now is the moment to takeover the West!"

    Replies: @A123, @silviosilver

    Every time I go to Youtube, I feel like a British officer during the first minute of the Sepoy Rebellion.

    Hahaha, a man after my own heart. God it shits me to tears searching for something on youtube and having to scroll past ten thousand videos with English titles but accompanied by hindi script and some pajeet in the thumbnail. How many times I’ve wished for a “no hindoos” search option. In fact, now I think about it, of all the Britishers’ sins (real and imagined), teaching hindoos English surely ranks among the gravest of crimes against humanity.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @silviosilver

    Any day now, Indians will get a direct flight connection to the US, via Anchorage.

    Billy Mitchell used to say that Anchorage was the key to dominating the world. Lord help us, if they take it.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

  662. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But the Chinese were not much much better in the Ming-Qing War, Taiping War, Chinese Civil War.
     
    Good point. I recall hearing about some gruesome incidents during the Boxer Rebellion, but I didn't compare it because I thinking about it as being part of a different era. Also heard about some during the Cultural Revolution, but I blamed it on communists or propaganda. But I guess the Civil War (which I don't much about) would make the comparison more contemporary, and possibly less ideological.

    without context, often gets used to dehumanize East Asians in general.
     
    It is quite odd to see Japanese today. They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

    Personally, I think it had more to do with circumstances. Levels of development, geography, and the fact that Europeans undoubtedly were interacting with each other on a greater level for hundreds of years.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

    I wouldn’t put it this way. Extreme savagery is the normal human condition; and there is significant element of that in East Asian culture. Japan lies on on perhaps the most natural disaster-prone terrain of any major country; given that they could lose loved ones at any moment, the Japanese just evolved to be especially stoic and reserved and sometimes fall back to the savagery.

    In addition, the Japanese banned the practices of extreme punishments and eunuchs around the same time as Europeans, far earlier than the Chinese who had it till the last day of Qing dynasty in 1912.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    In addition, the Japanese banned the practices of extreme punishments and eunuchs around the same time as Europeans, far earlier than the Chinese who had it till the last day of Qing dynasty in 1912.

     

    That's interesting. I heard someone say that China was the only other society (other than European) to have a kind of indigenous effort to eliminate slavery. (Guess it was a kind of false start?)

    I'm inclined to think that castrati were one of the most barbaric things things that ever happened in Europe. But probably barbarians would have never done that. TBH, I think it speaks ill of the Church that they sanctioned it. Though, in a certain sense, I wonder if it wouldn't best be described as a foreign custom. Good on Italian nationalists that they banned it.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  663. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird


    They might be the most civilized and polite people in the world. Nobody could imagine that they were capable of such things, even 80 years ago. It even makes you wonder, if they have some weird evolutionary psychology, where they can, if they deem it necessary, leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.
     
    The last point is spot on, the politeness has never been separate from brutality and has been in fact a cover for it, which is best seen in the act of seppuku.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Considering what the Qing did to captured Taiping rebels (including Hong Xiuquan’s 14 yr old son) and the going-ons during Cultural Revolution, this is just pot calling the kettle black. If anything the Chinese form of cruelty is more unsettling.

    Also, depiction of seppuku in Western film over-romanticizes Japanese militarism. Tojo for instance, rather than going out the manly samurai way, tried to shoot himself in the heart and failed ignominiously.

  664. Peace and Glory to all!

    • Thanks: A123
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    For many years, Dr. Kaufmanis' well advertised lecture was made at the University of Minnesota. It's really quite incredible and you can listen to it by clicking on the Download portal:

    Dr. Karlis Kaufmanis was a professor of astronomy at the University of Minnesota. Over the years he did considerable research on the Star of Bethlehem. He developed an astronomical explanation of the phenomenon and became noted for his lecture on the subject.

    In essence, Dr. Kaufmanis describes how the birth of Christ was announced, not by a single object in the sky, but by an astronomical event where Jupiter, the King star, and Saturn, the star of the Messiah, appeared together in the constellation, Pisces, or Fish, known to astrologers as the House of the Hebrews, in the eastern sky at sunrise, or at the heliacal rising. Kaufmanis surmises that the wise men were astrologers who predicted, along with ancient Hebrew tradition, that this long awaited event would announce the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem.

    The fact that the event occurred is undeniable. It can be mathematically calculated, and it can be found recorded on ancient clay tablet journals from that time where, according to Kaufmanis, the phrase, "Jupiter and Saturn in Fish," "Jupiter and Saturn in Fish," is repeated again and again as though nothing else important was happening at that time.

    Dr. Kaufmnanis gave this lecture over 1000 times during his career, but apparently it was never commercially recorded. Dr. Kaufmanis died in the year 2003.

    I recorded this one-hour lecture in 1972, and I have included it here for your enjoyment. Please click on the following to start the program:

    Karlis Kaufmanis Star Of Bethlehem.mp3
    Download
    https://sites.google.com/site/astrologicalstarofbethlehem/

  665. @iffen
    @German_reader

    In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one’s own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    I don't call what we did to the American Indians a crime. I don't even consider slavery in the American South a crime. Now, if we did those things today, sure, criminal. Do I wish that we had dealt more fairly (whatever that might mean) with the Indians? Sure. Do I wish my ancestors (and I mean some actual ancestors that I know from genealogical research) had turned against slavery sooner? Sure. I even wish that my people had turned against Jim Crow sooner. I look at the end result. Where we are now.

    Do I feel bad about all the deaths and displaced peoples in the Middle East that are a direct result of our incompetent and flawed policies? Sure I do. I can only hope that we are moving away from those types of misadventures. In the meantime, about all I can do is support less interventionist politicians going forward.

    Personally I’m in favour of historical truth

    I'm in favor of historical accuracy as well. I don't see how you could get toward that goal without writing about it and discussing it.

    I fully understand your complaint about the victim industry, but we can't really control what other people think. We can only point out that the victim/oppressor lens is insufficient to get to a better understanding of that history.

    Replies: @Beckow

    In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one’s own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    I don’t call what we did to the American Indians a crime. I don’t even consider slavery in the American South a crime.

    Crime is wrong terminology. It was an ideology, a set of beliefs, an (economic) system, allowing for a lot of individual crimes. Calling a way of life “crime” makes no sense, we may as well refer to any system as criminal, certainly Catholicism, Reformation, all revolutionary systems, etc…contained a lot of crimes.

    More relevant is to what extent is the underlying mentality of a group derived from that past behaviour. In a simplistic way, the current American interventionism and exceptionalism evolved from the past – same solipsism, same hunger for resources, same desire to avoid multi-generational hard work.

    In Germany’s case there was a forced break after WWII, but then the same underlying preachy, humourless, hard-working, resentful self-regard reappeared – of course in a different form given the constraints. But in the revived Drang nach Osten by Madame “green” Baerbock one can see the German past. Maybe disarming her wouldn’t be so bad.

  666. @Mr. Hack
    https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-7251z/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/4687/8876/NativitySceneChristmasCard__51891.1628784735.jpg?c=2

    Peace and Glory to all!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    For many years, Dr. Kaufmanis’ well advertised lecture was made at the University of Minnesota. It’s really quite incredible and you can listen to it by clicking on the Download portal:

    Dr. Karlis Kaufmanis was a professor of astronomy at the University of Minnesota. Over the years he did considerable research on the Star of Bethlehem. He developed an astronomical explanation of the phenomenon and became noted for his lecture on the subject.

    In essence, Dr. Kaufmanis describes how the birth of Christ was announced, not by a single object in the sky, but by an astronomical event where Jupiter, the King star, and Saturn, the star of the Messiah, appeared together in the constellation, Pisces, or Fish, known to astrologers as the House of the Hebrews, in the eastern sky at sunrise, or at the heliacal rising. Kaufmanis surmises that the wise men were astrologers who predicted, along with ancient Hebrew tradition, that this long awaited event would announce the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem.

    The fact that the event occurred is undeniable. It can be mathematically calculated, and it can be found recorded on ancient clay tablet journals from that time where, according to Kaufmanis, the phrase, “Jupiter and Saturn in Fish,” “Jupiter and Saturn in Fish,” is repeated again and again as though nothing else important was happening at that time.

    Dr. Kaufmnanis gave this lecture over 1000 times during his career, but apparently it was never commercially recorded. Dr. Kaufmanis died in the year 2003.

    I recorded this one-hour lecture in 1972, and I have included it here for your enjoyment. Please click on the following to start the program:

    Karlis Kaufmanis Star Of Bethlehem.mp3
    Download
    https://sites.google.com/site/astrologicalstarofbethlehem/

    • Thanks: Emil Nikola Richard
  667. @German_reader
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I think the 300 000 dead figure for the Nanjing massacre is almost certainly exaggerated, and I have no doubt that the issue is sometimes used quite cynically against Japan. I don't envy Japan's position, it must be difficult to be confronted with demands for apologies by a state like the PRC which has a lot of dirty history of its own and is set to become the regional hegemon. The situation regarding Korea also isn't easy, given the nature of North Korea's regime. Hard to decide imo what Japan should do, some Western commentators are too sanctimonius with their view that the Japanese just don't want to face up to their crimes.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    There are aspects of Chinese history that I won’t defend. I consider Taiping Rebellion and Mao’s excesses to be greater disasters than the war with Japan and anything done by Western Imperialists.

    That said, I hope you can see that there’s a directly parallel of atrocity propaganda used against Japan, with what is now being used against PRC. Port Arthur massacre following Russo-Japanese War is an first example of American media arbitrarily adding some zeros to death figures:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(China)

    …this basically what is now done with Xinjiang. And Taiwan further ridiculous since it was territory Imperial Japan wrested from Imperial China, agreed to be returned to ROC at Potsdam Declaration.

    *The Japanese Left have probably the appropriate balance between showing contrition and avoidance of cultural self-flagellation. If I’m correct that was similar to the position of DDR

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    And Taiwan further ridiculous since it was territory Imperial Japan wrested from Imperial China, agreed to be returned to ROC at Potsdam Declaration.
     
    Not sure what you're implying with this fact.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  668. @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Poland is the most rapidly secularising
     
    At least in comparison to other slavic nationalities (which includes the most secular in Europe), Poles are very religious though. You can see this if you visit a church in Western Europe - depending on area, it can be mostly Africans, Poles, Filipinos, Latins, etc.

    Catholicism is part of the mainstream culture in Poland.

    It's completely not-comparable to Russia, where religion (even Hare Krishna) is really a very minority sect, obscure to most of the country, and to extent had never extended to the mainstream population (as late as in the 19th century, the clergy complains about the extreme difficulty of imposing norms on the peasants).

    So the average person doesn't know what religion is teaching or the most basic things about it. The clergymen are writing on Facebook about how the visitors to their services don't know the most simple customs. (Whereas in Poland, you can be sure average people know how the services go).


    Putin’s public displays of Orthodox
     
    Putin is a KGB officer, and a lot of the ruling class are from the intelligence serves of the USSR, so this is a different kind of politics. In countries like Poland, although their government is apparently considered "embarrassing" by educated Poles; they have seemed to be able to create a relatively more "normal" (or European, democratic) political reality nowadays. So I don't think the Polish politicians are doing this kind of cynical appearing state-building attemptings.

    Since the end of communism, Poland has managed to create a kind of European, modern, democratic political system.


    declarations of belonging to the Orthodox faith has skyrocketed under Putin – without a concomitant rise in church attendence except for older boomers.
     
    There is also the type of religion or spirituality that is more discovered in Russia - it's something that becomes attractive for older people. That is, people who were secular for most of their life, might become religious as they become old. They "discover religion" as they age, as you can say.

    Eastern Europe is far more traditional than the West, but when it comes to casual sex or abortion or church attendence this simply isn’t the case. Frankly, a lot of it comes across as sentimental and/or wishful thinking by ‘disapora nationalists’,

     

    I think it varies from which country we are discussing, and what you mean by traditional (which historical time it refers to).

    The more advanced countries of the USSR, like in Russia have maintained less traditions from the 19th century and earlier, than Western European countries.

    Western European countries like UK have far traditions of the 19th century and earlier, in comparison.

    But because of a slow of development in most of the country of the last 30 years, there is still more maintained a lot of the traditions of the 20th century in Russia (although the rapid computerization of the population in the last 10 years is scary, as the dying of the villages).

    Poland's history is different as they have nationalism (unlike in Russia, where the history is imperialism). In Poland, self-consciously tried to maintain their folkloric culture as part of the nationalism project since various partitions.

    And what about those Southern countries like Romania, Bulgaria? These can seem incredibly traditional in some ways.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    So the average person doesn’t know what religion is teaching or the most basic things about it. The clergymen are writing on Facebook about how the visitors to their services don’t know the most simple customs. (Whereas in Poland, you can be sure average people know how the services go).

    That’s surprising, because there really isn’t that much to know, in terms of customs. All you really do is just stand there (when I was a kid, there were no pews at our church, just a bench by the wall for kids and the elderly, everyone else stood the entire time) and cross yourself when the priest does (and at other times as you deem it necessary – like after an ‘amen’ is a safe bet – generally by following other people, who themselves probably don’t really know whether it’s strictly required…). Maybe it’s different in the Russian church.

    Of course, even knowing the customs is no guarantee of actual religious knowledge. My parents are a good example of this. The know (and follow) all the customs, but that and a couple of prayers in the morning and evening are all their religion consists of. We had a bible in the house but I never once saw them read it. I never once heard them discussing what some aspect of their faith meant to them, or heard them evaluate their behavior or a family issue in terms of what their faith requires of them. They would have no idea what any of the saints whose feast days they so diligently keep track of were famous for, or if they do, it would be something they half remember from a documentary they saw or, even more vaguely, a story they can recollect from their childhood, but certainly nothing they were ever spontaneously inspired to read up on. And yet neither of them have ever given me any reason to think that they believe Christianity to be anything but 100% true.

    Of course, for the longest time, this was entirely typical of the average Christian, going all the way back to the earliest days of the church. (Protestants sometimes seem to forget that disciples didn’t go around handing out bibles lol.) I don’t know much about it, but my guess would be that it’s more or less the case today for the typical muslim in all those “traditional” and “highly Islamic” countries. To look at them, it’s easy to think wow they’re so devout, surely the content of the koran means everything to them. But who knows, maybe they care as much about the actual content of the koran as my parents care about the content of the bible – ie they’d quickly agree that if it’s in there, it must in some way be “important,” but their actual behavior evinces little interest in finding out.

  669. @silviosilver
    @Thulean Friend


    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.
     
    Thulean fag advocating for his pajeet kin.

    Migration is not a crime.
     
    Nothing is a crime until humans decide it is. And migration most assuredly should be considered a crime. From a societal perspective, it's a far more damaging crime than rape. Even if rapes increased tenfold, the vast majority of people would remain unaffected. If immigration increased tenfold, it would be almost impossible to be unaffected by it. In most cases, the harm from increased immigration is only psychological, but with rape, if a woman puts up only minimal resistance, she can come away from it without a scratch, so the harm in that case is "only" psychological too. One might wish to cite cultural degradation and race-replacement "genocide" here too, but the harm in those is not actually physical; the mental anguish arises from understanding what is in store for your people.

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    In most cases, the harm from increased immigration is only psychological, but with rape, if a woman puts up only minimal resistance, she can come away from it without a scratch, so the harm in that case is “only” psychological too

    Wow, I suddenly support mass migration after hearing this take. Rape is a capital offence, and a crime against father & husband (social order).

    Anyone who views woman as an individual is shirking duty to protect them, just scum.

    Imagine someone who supports cow slaughter also unironically supporting rape. Not the I took her by force, and she liked it variety; but the I’m a sweaty Italian and mistook her for a man, one.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Jatt Aryaa

    How am I "supporting rape," you copey pajeet?

    I am clearly arguing that "just because" the harm in rape may be "merely" psychological it doesn't disqualify it as a crime; and by extension, I am arguing that even if the harm from unwanted immigration is "only" psychological, it is sufficient to make unwanted immigration a crime.

    Replies: @sher singh

  670. @Dmitry
    I'm sad I missed this debate with AP.

    outlier among Catholic
     
    The most politically "woke" country of Western Europe, is surely Republic of Ireland, which has been one of the most traditionally Catholic.

    That's not to say, Catholicism causes "wokeness" - there is obviously no correlation in Europe, as Italy is more "anti-Woke" politically.

    That's a guideline which any historian should say. That important information is in the small details and particular circumstances of how the religious sect matches other factors, in these countries.


    accepting refugees (i.e, population
     
    This is one of few topics of modern politics, where Jesus says clear and unambiguous things, almost written like an instruction guide - that you should help strangers, and that your neighbor is the person who is good to you, not the person who is related to you or part of your tribe.

    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor - this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them - this is difficult to re-interpret.


    for trans rights:
     
    Regardless that most people who are interested in this topic are secular.

    New Testament has perhaps some quite "woke" concordance views in this areas, implies that gender is not important. On the other hand, Origen, who has castrated himself, not exactly a church father.


    the pattern (among Europeans) has been Evangelical Protestants most right wing, then Catholics, and then mainline Protestants
     
    Because America is a different country, some of the social markers will be different.

    For example, in Northern Ireland, religious sects also partly indicate ethnic differences, as in Israel/Palestine, Lebanon, or Balkans. In Germany, the Catholic/Protestant might not indicate any ethnic differences. In USA, it might correlate to income levels. In e.g. Scotland, these correlation might be the opposite, than in USA, Brazil, etc.

    This is all local detail. And of course, the interesting things in this topic, are in the small local details.


    least woke countries remain Catholic and Orthodox ones. And not just backward ones in the Balkans, also Poland and Italy, even Czechia
     
    Compared to Western Europe, Poland is recently communist, poor, low income, country with a low standard of living. You would expect their politics to be different, regardless of a religion.

    Fact that Poland shares religion with many countries in Western Europe like Belgium or France, is probably the least relevant indicator for understanding their politics.

    In terms of Catholicism in Poland, the interesting thing is that Poland is still quite a religious country, while slavic nationalities in Russia are the most secular or non-religious population in Europe, and central Europe countries like Czech Republic are also quite non-religious.

    It's something Polish historians would probably be able to answer only. But I wonder if it is partly because Catholicism is also a national marker in Poland, and Poland is country often under partial or total occupation.

    This is, Catholicism is perhaps felt like a national characteristic in Poland, and Poles are often being threatened by occupation of the neighbours. In Germany, for comparison, you can see Catholicism/Protestantism doesn't have any national connotation. Whereas in Ireland, Catholicism has a national connotation.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @silviosilver

    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor – this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them – this is difficult to re-interpret.

    I don’t see how you draw this conclusion at all.

    If my neighbor is defined as “whoever does me a kindness,” then why would that require me to accept a refugee (especially one of another race), whose presence in my country, far from doing me any sort of kindness, only burdens me?

    If a “refugee” (99% bogus) tries to break into my country and I catch him, I should have a right to kill him; by not killing him, I am doing him the kindness. And the best way he can “love me as his neighbor” in return for that kindness is to promise to stay out of my country (and to keep his promise).

    Also, just because Jesus said to love your neighbor (as he defined it) as yourself, it doesn’t mean we can’t also love our “normal” neighbors (as we define them) as well. That should be obvious. In the passage about “what is the law” that you are referring to, Jesus doesn’t explicitly provide the instruction to love our parents or our children, but we can hardly infer from that omission that he doesn’t want us to love our parents or children, so neither should we infer that we shouldn’t love our own ethnic neighbors (if we want to).

    See, Dmitry, what was so hard about that?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @silviosilver


    aid to love your neighbor (as he defined it) as
     
    Love your neighbor is Leviticus 19:18
    (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2019%3A18&version=NIV )

    But it implies that the neighbor are the people in your tribe ("against anyone among your people").

    This is why Jesus talks about the "Parable of the Good Samaritan".
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010%3A25-37&version=NIV

    The message of this is to refute the "your people" in the Leviticus 19:18 when refering to loving your neighbor. This is why the traveler is not helped by the other Jews (including priests and Levites). But the non-Jew is helping the Jew.

    In this passage, Jesus is saying to be like the Samaritan. I.e. to love your neighbor, does not refer to only loving people from within your tribe. Jesus is saying you should love people regardless of whether their religious/tribe is the same as our own.

    I recommend to read the two texts together. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010%3A25-37&version=NIV

    -

    I'm not saying that it is such a good idea to apply religion to politics in a non-careful way, as you don't apply religious texts to bridge safety engineering or flight safety. Would you fly on a plane, where the flight safety engineers were following instructions from biblical texts.

    We can apply religious ethics to our personal life and learn from these ethical teaching. But societies' applying religion to political life, is a more problematic issue, as the politics is such a complex system.

    But the application of Jesus' instructions to these topics is consistent with the Catholic church teaching on this topic.

  671. @Jatt Aryaa
    @silviosilver


    In most cases, the harm from increased immigration is only psychological, but with rape, if a woman puts up only minimal resistance, she can come away from it without a scratch, so the harm in that case is “only” psychological too
     
    Wow, I suddenly support mass migration after hearing this take. Rape is a capital offence, and a crime against father & husband (social order).

    Anyone who views woman as an individual is shirking duty to protect them, just scum.

    Imagine someone who supports cow slaughter also unironically supporting rape. Not the I took her by force, and she liked it variety; but the I'm a sweaty Italian and mistook her for a man, one.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @silviosilver

    How am I “supporting rape,” you copey pajeet?

    I am clearly arguing that “just because” the harm in rape may be “merely” psychological it doesn’t disqualify it as a crime; and by extension, I am arguing that even if the harm from unwanted immigration is “only” psychological, it is sufficient to make unwanted immigration a crime.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @silviosilver

    The impression I get from your post is you don't view women as property, but as sentient original & individual beings with an ability to give consent.

    Women's consent goes as far as the men willing to fight for her, and she enjoys this.

    Calling a Singh a copey pajeet while you're an unarmed med is rich.
    Immigration is not a crime, as long as your tribe is doing it; get on the right page||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777363024196796426/852791619115417620/unknown.png

    Replies: @silviosilver

  672. German_reader says:
    @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    It doesn’t seem to occur to Sailer with his boomer mindset how easily such hyper-moralizing can boomerang on those who profess such standards.
     
    I don't think Sailer is serious about that though. I have every confidence he started out in life that way, but he's seen and learned too much in the intervening decades to really believe it. I think he just makes statements like that whenever he feels that he needs to sound more moderate. The reason is that ever since getting into hereditarian realism, he's been dragged further and further whitewards. Do you remember him from a decade or so ago, when everything was NAM this and NAM that? That was a lot milder than the sorts of things he been focusing on more recently.

    The NAM stuff was more analytical in nature. It touched on pro-white issues, but it never said directly to whites, hey idiots, wake up, you have racial interests that are being brazenly trampled by all and sundry. The NAM stuff was analysis of the "how race works in society" variety. Far too edgy for the average libtard, to be sure, but a sizeable portion of the Jewish population is actually quite comfortable with it. It's the kind of conversation they can control. Sure, it may make them nervous, and the risks are obvious, but it also means they can keep intellectual whites endlessly tied up in conversation and polite debate until the clock runs out.

    But Sailer's blog also attracted a lot of unapologetic pro-white types, unconcerned with (though wise to) Jewish sensibilities, and over time I think they had some effect on Sailer, pulling him closer to their own position. Sailer himself isn't exactly sure what he stands for, and I think he periodically feels that he's gone "too far," so he pulls back with "safety" statements - comments that are in line with other positions he has taken, but resolve any ambiguities to the safe side of the ledger. Of course, to the mainstream he remains a "white supremacist racist anti-semite", but in his own estimation it helps him feel more moderate. That's my take on it.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I don’t think Sailer is serious about that though.

    Just look at Sailer’s snarky replies to commenter “John Regan” in this thread (note: I don’t agree with “John Regan”, at least not fully, imo his revisionism goes too far):
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/pearl-harbor/

    Then compare that with his non-reaction to the bloodthirsty commenter “Johann Ricke” (who thinks the Allies would have been morally justified in killing every single Japanese and German. Ricke has a long history of similar comments, and unsurprisingly he’s also advocated bombing Iran in the past, or that Israel should nuke Germany and other former Axis countries if threatened with defeat, so it isn’t merely a historical question).
    Anyway, I don’t care much about Sailer and his blog, but whenever I read his comments’ section I find something to remind me why in the end I’m not all that sympathetic to MAGA (A123’s comments here serve a similar function).

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @German_reader

    Okay, I just read through that thread and I can see what you mean. If you'll allow me another attempt to defend his honor - Sailer be muh boy, yo - I think he's following the Jared Taylor line of "you can only afford to be a crank on one issue at a time." Really, what possible good would it do Sailer, who has difficulties enough influencing anything mainstream (his influence is not zero, but it's fuck all compared to what it deserves to be), to be tied to WW2 revisonism at this point? (Not even Big H revisionism, just WW2 in general.)

    Furthermore, WW2 was long enough ago now that it's possible - not likely, merely possible - for many to view it all with the emotional detachment you'd view a HoI4 playthrough [a popular and exquisitely detailed WW2 strategy game, if you're unfamiliar with it]. So it's not uncommon to find even people who lost close family members - me for example: my grandmother had two brothers shot in summary executions - who can talk about it dispassionately, pointing out where this country could have done this differently, that country could have done that differently, and either the general war could have been averted, or an outcome with superior long-term consequences arrived at (ie compared to the long-term consequences of the outcome as it was, which we are living through today). But not everyone is capable of that. For some, the horrors of it remain too raw, the possibility of alternatives to the easy morality-tale narrative too frightening - Sailer may be one of these people.

    As for his silence on Johann Rickie, that could be used to argue my point as well as yours: he doesn't bother denouncing it because there's no need; horrific as it is, it remains within the bounds of acceptability. Obviously, as a German, you'd be rankled to hear that every last one of you ought to have been butchered, but you can't let internet freaks get under your skin. Not sure if you've noticed him, but there's this Croatian fruitcake who occasionally posts on Unz (not AK's blog though, I don't think) who insists on calling the Balkans "Haemus Mons" and uses "Serboi dogs" for every reference to Serbs. Someone like that IRL, if I thought I could take him, I'd have to fight back the urge to punch his head in, but on the internet it doesn't bother me at all. (In his case, his bizarre idiom merely fascinates me - and then quickly bores me.)

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @A123
    @German_reader

    GR,

    It is very sad that you choose today, of all days, to take cheap shots at Jesus and his MAGA followers. However:

    I Offer Forgiveness

    🎄 Merry Christmas🎄


    https://youtu.be/8t-JhhYhZyk


    https://youtu.be/oqmGSjiy0TI

  673. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader

    There are aspects of Chinese history that I won't defend. I consider Taiping Rebellion and Mao's excesses to be greater disasters than the war with Japan and anything done by Western Imperialists.

    That said, I hope you can see that there's a directly parallel of atrocity propaganda used against Japan, with what is now being used against PRC. Port Arthur massacre following Russo-Japanese War is an first example of American media arbitrarily adding some zeros to death figures:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(China)

    ...this basically what is now done with Xinjiang. And Taiwan further ridiculous since it was territory Imperial Japan wrested from Imperial China, agreed to be returned to ROC at Potsdam Declaration.

    *The Japanese Left have probably the appropriate balance between showing contrition and avoidance of cultural self-flagellation. If I'm correct that was similar to the position of DDR

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    And Taiwan further ridiculous since it was territory Imperial Japan wrested from Imperial China, agreed to be returned to ROC at Potsdam Declaration.

    Not sure what you’re implying with this fact.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Yellowface Anon

    My point is while there is a considerable element of altruism involved, the US plays the similar role in East Asia as Britain once did for the European Continent-- 離岸平衡 to balance the power between hegemons, whether it be China, Japan, or Russia.

    For example...
    Japan during WWII never produced more oil than Romania, it relied near entirely on importing from US--


    Maxwell S. Stewart, a former Foreign Policy Association research staff and economist who charged that America's Neutrality Act and its "neutrality policy" was a massive farce which only benefited Japan and that Japan did not have the capability nor could ever have invaded China without the massive amount of raw material America exported to Japan. America exported far more raw material to Japan than to China in the years 1937–1940.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Western_allies

    The US Embargo against Japan came only after Japan invaded Vietnam to cut off one of the last supply routes to ROC--

    However, the United States continued to support Japan with petroleum and scrap metal exports until the Japanese invasion of French Indochina which forced the U.S. to impose the scrap metal and oil embargo against Japan (and freezing of Japanese assets) in the summer of 1941

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Second_period_(October_1938_%E2%80%93_December_1941)

    Now today, PRC's legal claim to Taiwan isn't ethnic irredentism, but rather in accordance to former US policy actions--

    1. Taiwan was originally ceded by Qing to Japan per Treaty of Shimonoseki (1895)

    2. It was agreed to be returned to ROC at Cairo and Potsdam Conferences by United States and British Empire

    "all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China",

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Conference

    ...when US needed ROC as an ally against Japan.

    3. UN Resolution 2758 (1971)

    recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" from the United Nations.[2]

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan#Legal_arguments

    ...which came after the Sino-Soviet Conflict (1969) when US needed PRC as an ally against the Soviet Union.
  674. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean


    they make it quite clear they want a theocratic state whose officials are subject only to Church doctrine and the Pope.
     
    These people are demented Larpers. Outside maybe of the papal state, such a thing never existed anywhere even in medieval Europe. They should remember what happened to popes like Gregory VII and Boniface VIII, when they overreached in their dealings with secular powers and tried subordinating the temporal power to the spiritual power.
    I read the excerpts in Dreher's article and I'm completely unsympathetic to the Integralist programme as outlined there. These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran's system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant "anything goes" liberalism.

    Replies: @A123, @Hyperborean, @Coconuts, @silviosilver

    These people basically just want a Catholic version of Iran’s system, literally rule by priests. I guess it says something about the unhinged character of the American right that something as demented as this even gets a hearing, as a sort of over-compensating response to the dominant “anything goes” liberalism.

    I think they’re coming at it from Belloc’s “Europe is the faith, the faith is Europe” angle. They’re looking to their own traditions – even if they were raised Protestant or atheist or whatever – for some way out of the madness they witness in their world. Trad Cath types often market their cultural offerings attractively, so it’s not that surprising that some people will investigate it on the off chance that it does indeed contain some magic ingredient that we have tragically overlooked in our haste to embrace every shiny new thing thrust our way.

    Personally, whenever I’ve examined it, I’ve come away very disappointed. It’s not having to fake belief in things like “the real presence” in the eucharist that bothers me, it’s that the people in Trad Cath talk about religious issues like this all the time – about this and about virtually nothing else. My hopes that the people may have retained some religious faith but were “really” in it for the identity politics have been quickly dashed every time. Well, that shouldn’t be surprising – it’s a religion, not a cultural or political movement, and I’m the fool for thinking it could possibly have been otherwise. My excuse is desperate people do desperate things. These people occasionally make their way over to blogs like this one, so my advice to any identitarian who encounters one of them is: do not get your hopes up!

    If Trad Cath is a waste of time, the idea of an ethno-religion remains very attractive. The problem is there is so little on offer. Paganism is an even worse option than Christianity. If you don’t believe in Christianity but you want to embrace it as your ancestral faith, you don’t have to really do anything. No one’s going to seriously demand you prove your faith – or if they do, it’s somewhat acceptable to just tell them to fuck off. But going into paganism would be a bit like converting to Islam – I think you really would face some pressure to prove your conversion is sincere. Who the hell is seriously going to pretend to believe in Zeus or Jupiter? And I don’t know how anyone can attend those pagan revival ceremonies without feeling daffy.

  675. @German_reader
    @silviosilver


    I don’t think Sailer is serious about that though.
     
    Just look at Sailer's snarky replies to commenter "John Regan" in this thread (note: I don't agree with "John Regan", at least not fully, imo his revisionism goes too far):
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/pearl-harbor/

    Then compare that with his non-reaction to the bloodthirsty commenter "Johann Ricke" (who thinks the Allies would have been morally justified in killing every single Japanese and German. Ricke has a long history of similar comments, and unsurprisingly he's also advocated bombing Iran in the past, or that Israel should nuke Germany and other former Axis countries if threatened with defeat, so it isn't merely a historical question).
    Anyway, I don't care much about Sailer and his blog, but whenever I read his comments' section I find something to remind me why in the end I'm not all that sympathetic to MAGA (A123's comments here serve a similar function).

    Replies: @silviosilver, @A123

    Okay, I just read through that thread and I can see what you mean. If you’ll allow me another attempt to defend his honor – Sailer be muh boy, yo – I think he’s following the Jared Taylor line of “you can only afford to be a crank on one issue at a time.” Really, what possible good would it do Sailer, who has difficulties enough influencing anything mainstream (his influence is not zero, but it’s fuck all compared to what it deserves to be), to be tied to WW2 revisonism at this point? (Not even Big H revisionism, just WW2 in general.)

    Furthermore, WW2 was long enough ago now that it’s possible – not likely, merely possible – for many to view it all with the emotional detachment you’d view a HoI4 playthrough [a popular and exquisitely detailed WW2 strategy game, if you’re unfamiliar with it]. So it’s not uncommon to find even people who lost close family members – me for example: my grandmother had two brothers shot in summary executions – who can talk about it dispassionately, pointing out where this country could have done this differently, that country could have done that differently, and either the general war could have been averted, or an outcome with superior long-term consequences arrived at (ie compared to the long-term consequences of the outcome as it was, which we are living through today). But not everyone is capable of that. For some, the horrors of it remain too raw, the possibility of alternatives to the easy morality-tale narrative too frightening – Sailer may be one of these people.

    As for his silence on Johann Rickie, that could be used to argue my point as well as yours: he doesn’t bother denouncing it because there’s no need; horrific as it is, it remains within the bounds of acceptability. Obviously, as a German, you’d be rankled to hear that every last one of you ought to have been butchered, but you can’t let internet freaks get under your skin. Not sure if you’ve noticed him, but there’s this Croatian fruitcake who occasionally posts on Unz (not AK’s blog though, I don’t think) who insists on calling the Balkans “Haemus Mons” and uses “Serboi dogs” for every reference to Serbs. Someone like that IRL, if I thought I could take him, I’d have to fight back the urge to punch his head in, but on the internet it doesn’t bother me at all. (In his case, his bizarre idiom merely fascinates me – and then quickly bores me.)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @silviosilver

    I didn't mean to suggest that Sailer should commit himself to WW2 revisionism (much of which is demented anyway, certainly the kind of it seen on UR). But it often seems to me that much of his output is just catering to boomer nostalgia. "America was great when I was young, and then for some undiscernible reason it all went wrong". Obviously there's an audience for that, but on the whole it doesn't strike me as profound analysis.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  676. German_reader says:
    @silviosilver
    @German_reader

    Okay, I just read through that thread and I can see what you mean. If you'll allow me another attempt to defend his honor - Sailer be muh boy, yo - I think he's following the Jared Taylor line of "you can only afford to be a crank on one issue at a time." Really, what possible good would it do Sailer, who has difficulties enough influencing anything mainstream (his influence is not zero, but it's fuck all compared to what it deserves to be), to be tied to WW2 revisonism at this point? (Not even Big H revisionism, just WW2 in general.)

    Furthermore, WW2 was long enough ago now that it's possible - not likely, merely possible - for many to view it all with the emotional detachment you'd view a HoI4 playthrough [a popular and exquisitely detailed WW2 strategy game, if you're unfamiliar with it]. So it's not uncommon to find even people who lost close family members - me for example: my grandmother had two brothers shot in summary executions - who can talk about it dispassionately, pointing out where this country could have done this differently, that country could have done that differently, and either the general war could have been averted, or an outcome with superior long-term consequences arrived at (ie compared to the long-term consequences of the outcome as it was, which we are living through today). But not everyone is capable of that. For some, the horrors of it remain too raw, the possibility of alternatives to the easy morality-tale narrative too frightening - Sailer may be one of these people.

    As for his silence on Johann Rickie, that could be used to argue my point as well as yours: he doesn't bother denouncing it because there's no need; horrific as it is, it remains within the bounds of acceptability. Obviously, as a German, you'd be rankled to hear that every last one of you ought to have been butchered, but you can't let internet freaks get under your skin. Not sure if you've noticed him, but there's this Croatian fruitcake who occasionally posts on Unz (not AK's blog though, I don't think) who insists on calling the Balkans "Haemus Mons" and uses "Serboi dogs" for every reference to Serbs. Someone like that IRL, if I thought I could take him, I'd have to fight back the urge to punch his head in, but on the internet it doesn't bother me at all. (In his case, his bizarre idiom merely fascinates me - and then quickly bores me.)

    Replies: @German_reader

    I didn’t mean to suggest that Sailer should commit himself to WW2 revisionism (much of which is demented anyway, certainly the kind of it seen on UR). But it often seems to me that much of his output is just catering to boomer nostalgia. “America was great when I was young, and then for some undiscernible reason it all went wrong”. Obviously there’s an audience for that, but on the whole it doesn’t strike me as profound analysis.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @German_reader

    Sorry, I don't see that "boomer nostalgia" even comes close to accurately characterizing the great bulk of his output. His posts don't sound at all befuddled about the reasons "it all went wrong." Immigration, racial delusions, sexual delusions, cultural delusions, the dude even names the Jew - and allows others to do quality naming, citing Kmac to their hearts' content all day. He only gets cranky when posters start going full nutzi.

  677. sher singh says:
    @silviosilver
    @Jatt Aryaa

    How am I "supporting rape," you copey pajeet?

    I am clearly arguing that "just because" the harm in rape may be "merely" psychological it doesn't disqualify it as a crime; and by extension, I am arguing that even if the harm from unwanted immigration is "only" psychological, it is sufficient to make unwanted immigration a crime.

    Replies: @sher singh

    The impression I get from your post is you don’t view women as property, but as sentient original & individual beings with an ability to give consent.

    Women’s consent goes as far as the men willing to fight for her, and she enjoys this.

    Calling a Singh a copey pajeet while you’re an unarmed med is rich.
    Immigration is not a crime, as long as your tribe is doing it; get on the right page||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @sher singh


    The impression I get from your post is you don’t view women as property, but as sentient original & individual beings with an ability to give consent.
     
    Drat, I'm busted. Try as I might, I guess there's just no hiding my eccentricities.

    Calling a Singh a copey pajeet while you’re an unarmed med is rich.
     
    One of the benefits of civilization - the western variety, at any rate - is being able to walk around unarmed. (And to not live in mortal fear of a hair cut, also worth mentioning.)

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

  678. @Max Demian
    @sher singh


    Part of the joy of this forum is the lack of low-bandwidth troll farms||

    Please help keep it this way by indulging in the posting of high-res imgs, twitter posts, reddit threads, etc.
    You are all doing a public service by NOT following Max Demian’s instructions, as he tries to create a GREAT BI-FURCATION on this forum by separating the intelligent from the retards||
     

    Hmm...

    sher singh says:
    December 20, 2021 at 6:23 am GMT

    NERD, stop. Also murder is based but gayness is not|| Your nerdtales & argument have 0 IRL impact.
    The 3 comment per hour rule was made for niggas like you, r u opening gas station in QC or maine?
     

    While not quite sure just what else to make of you, that you are a class act, bar none, could hardly be any clearer.

    Replies: @sher singh

    I’m sorry I don’t enjoy month long, 1000+ comment threads on whether catholics or protestants were better at race-mixing with natives||

    Part of the moderation on this forum is calling people gay when they step out of line||

    You’re new here, respect the traditions & custom u immigrant.

    🙂

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  679. sher singh says:

    North-west Indians and Brahmins are more similar to C Asia than to rest of Endia, incl Pashtun & Tajik. The Battle of Kings or Dasrajna was mostly against people to West of Indus, so we don’t care about your race bs; Dharma is first, but fk inter-caste marriage and this idea that we’re all black Biharis. Also Sinthasta were white looking but neither Yamnaya nor the BMAC (near Balkh-Bukhara; Tajik areas) that Sinthasta mixed with were. You can find facial reconstructions,


    https://www.quora.com/Are-Tajiks-and-Pashtuns-genetically-related

    Also, you’re a Sullah you’ll marry your cousin after being molested by the Qazi.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  680. @sher singh
    @silviosilver

    The impression I get from your post is you don't view women as property, but as sentient original & individual beings with an ability to give consent.

    Women's consent goes as far as the men willing to fight for her, and she enjoys this.

    Calling a Singh a copey pajeet while you're an unarmed med is rich.
    Immigration is not a crime, as long as your tribe is doing it; get on the right page||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777363024196796426/852791619115417620/unknown.png

    Replies: @silviosilver

    The impression I get from your post is you don’t view women as property, but as sentient original & individual beings with an ability to give consent.

    Drat, I’m busted. Try as I might, I guess there’s just no hiding my eccentricities.

    Calling a Singh a copey pajeet while you’re an unarmed med is rich.

    One of the benefits of civilization – the western variety, at any rate – is being able to walk around unarmed. (And to not live in mortal fear of a hair cut, also worth mentioning.)

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @silviosilver

    You're a homosexual, confirmed. You shirk your duty to protect others the way a gay rejects his lineage.
    Enjoy watching your women be taken by darker races. 🤷‍♀️⚔️

    I'll rent you out to Afghans by the hour,
    That's all unarmed christian white men are worth।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @silviosilver

  681. @German_reader
    @Yellowface Anon

    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Svidomyatheart, @Max Demian

    Today China has blocked access to Steam Global…its over for gamecels

  682. @German_reader
    @iffen

    Probably never. Personally I'm in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there's almost always an agenda of the "group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior", often coupled with specific material demands. In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one's own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    Replies: @iffen, @Yahya, @Yahya

    Re, Natufians: don’t know much about them in-depth to be able to give an answer of much substance. But from what I’ve read, the Natufian culture emerged in the Levant region (Palestine/Israel, Jordan and Syria) at about 15,000 BC and lasted until 11,500 BC. It’s notable for being one of the first permanent sedentary settlement in the world. Prior to the Natufians, bands of people had moved seasonally, to follow animals for hunting and to gather available plants. The Natufians set the stage for the first complex civilizations by being the first to build permanent homes and developing the tools and techniques necessary to cultivate edible plants. Though they relied on traditional hunting and gathering (primarily of fish, gazelles and wild cereals) for most of their sustenance, Natufians were also capable of producing large quantities of groat meals from roasted, “half green” barley grain. Moreover, they made advances in agro-technical systems which made it possible to produce the fine flour needed for what has become the world’s most widespread staple food: bread.

    At Natufian sites is also some of the earliest archaeological evidence of dog domestication. At the Natufian site of Ain Mallaha in Israel/Palestine, dated to 12,000 B.C., an elderly human and a four-to-five-month-old puppy were found buried together. At another Natufian site, the cave of Hayonim, humans were found buried with two dogs.

    This is a good source for more on the Natufian culture: https://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub362/entry-6006.html

    tbh I think neither you nor I know enough about India to really have any idea what is behind the differences between north and south India. I doubt it can be reduced merely to Portuguese rule or Catholicism, there must be many other factors (there are vast differences between the regions after all, linguistically, culturally, in the caste system…arguably the people in north and south India aren’t even the same genetically).

    The first thing to understand about South Asians is that they are more alike to each other, genetically speaking, than they are to non-South Asian groups. Some Northwest Indian groups like Kashmiri Pandits like to think of themselves as being racially different from the darker Indians in the South and East; due to their more West Asian-like appearance. But genetics indicates that Northwest Indians/Pakistanis are still more related to other South Asians than to West Asians or Europeans.

    More broadly, all South Asian groups can be thought of as a mixture between two populations, which, before their mixture, were as different racially from each other as Europeans are from East Asians:

    (A) Ancestral North Indians (ANI) – The ANI are a West Eurasian (i.e. Caucasoid) population closely related to Europeans, Near Easterners, and people of the Caucasus. They are comprised of 30% Indo-Aryan steppe pastoralists (Sintashta) and 70% Indus Valley (IVC) people. IVC stands for “Indus Valley Civilization”, a people who developed the ancient IV civilization and were themselves composed of (a) 65% Iranian farmers who migrated to Pakistan/Northwest India, (b) 25% Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), and (c) 10% Paleo-Siberian. A Kashmiri Pandit Brahmin from the far north is about 70% ANI and 30% ASI. The Kalash people of Northwest Pakistan are close to 100% ANI, hence their West Asian/European appearance. A member of the lower castes in South India are only 30% ANI, and 70% ASI.

    (B) Ancestral South Indians (ASI) – The ASI descend from a population not related to any present-day populations outside India. They are closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands in the Southeast Bay of Bengal. The Andaman Islanders have a very Negroid-like appearance and are notably black-skinned, not brown. ASI is itself derived from (a) 70% Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), and (b) 30% IVC people. The Paliyar tribe of South India are almost 100% ASI, meaning they lack the Indo-Aryan steppe component found in the North.

    Since the Indo-Aryan people are perhaps the most significant population to have affected the trajectory of Indian history, I’ll touch more upon them here. One key thing to keep in mind about the Sintashta people is that, while they would almost certainly be labeled “white” by today’s conceptions, they were probably not the blonde, blue-eyed Nordic-looking people usually visualized when one thinks about Aryans. Based on genomic data, the Sintashta people were mostly dark brown or black-haired, and only a small minority had blue eyes.

    In terms of genetics, about 15% of the ancestry among modern South Asians can be attributed to people from the steppe. In the Northwest, it is closer to 25%. Among Brahmins across the North, the figure hovers around 30%, while Brahmins in the South are about 20% steppe. Peasants in the Gangetic plain are closer to 15% steppe. Dalits in the North have less than non-Dalit cultivators, while Dalits and tribal people in the South have almost no steppe ancestry. Within South Asia, the Jatt farmers of Punjab seem to be the group with the most steppe ancestry.

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1916a186fa5c2833ee6c73aeeebbc464-pjlq

    Additionally, most steppe ancestry is carried on the paternal side of modern Indians, suggesting that male Aryan invaders mixed with (or more brutally, raped) the local natives they invaded ~3,000 years ago. About 25% of South Asian males share the Indo-Aryan R1A haplogroup, with the highest fractions found in the Northwest, among Indo-Aryan speakers (who account for over 80% of the people of the subcontinent) and in Brahmin communities.

    [MORE]

    North Indian:

    South Indian:

    Kashmiri Pandit (70% ANI, 30% ASI):

    Kalash Tribe (~100% ANI):

    Paliyar Tribe (~100% ASI):

    Andaman Islanders (100% AASI):

    • Thanks: iffen
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yahya

    Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it.
    Natufians seem to have been pretty important for the development of early agricultural societies, too bad that it will probably always be impossible to reconstruct much of their culture. I wonder what language they spoke (iirc there's evidence from place names etc. that speakers of Semitic languages only spread relatively late over much of the Mideast, probably being pastoral peoples who took over sedentary societies, maybe not entirely unlike the Indo-Europeans).


    The first thing to understand about South Asians is that they are more alike to each other, genetically speaking, than they are to non-South Asian groups.
     
    Sure, but the proportions of the ancestral components are different in North and South India.
    It's also my understanding that some genetic studies indicate very deep roots for the caste system; some groups at least seem to have been endogamous for a very long time. So there probably must be some non-trivial genetic stratification within India, that may not yet be entirely understood (note, I have no hypothesis of my own about what any of this could mean, I certainly don't feel confident in making any pronouncements about Indian matters).

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

  683. @German_reader
    @silviosilver

    I didn't mean to suggest that Sailer should commit himself to WW2 revisionism (much of which is demented anyway, certainly the kind of it seen on UR). But it often seems to me that much of his output is just catering to boomer nostalgia. "America was great when I was young, and then for some undiscernible reason it all went wrong". Obviously there's an audience for that, but on the whole it doesn't strike me as profound analysis.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Sorry, I don’t see that “boomer nostalgia” even comes close to accurately characterizing the great bulk of his output. His posts don’t sound at all befuddled about the reasons “it all went wrong.” Immigration, racial delusions, sexual delusions, cultural delusions, the dude even names the Jew – and allows others to do quality naming, citing Kmac to their hearts’ content all day. He only gets cranky when posters start going full nutzi.

  684. @Yellowface Anon
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    And Taiwan further ridiculous since it was territory Imperial Japan wrested from Imperial China, agreed to be returned to ROC at Potsdam Declaration.
     
    Not sure what you're implying with this fact.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    My point is while there is a considerable element of altruism involved, the US plays the similar role in East Asia as Britain once did for the European Continent– 離岸平衡 to balance the power between hegemons, whether it be China, Japan, or Russia.

    For example…
    Japan during WWII never produced more oil than Romania, it relied near entirely on importing from US–

    Maxwell S. Stewart, a former Foreign Policy Association research staff and economist who charged that America’s Neutrality Act and its “neutrality policy” was a massive farce which only benefited Japan and that Japan did not have the capability nor could ever have invaded China without the massive amount of raw material America exported to Japan. America exported far more raw material to Japan than to China in the years 1937–1940.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Western_allies

    The US Embargo against Japan came only after Japan invaded Vietnam to cut off one of the last supply routes to ROC–

    However, the United States continued to support Japan with petroleum and scrap metal exports until the Japanese invasion of French Indochina which forced the U.S. to impose the scrap metal and oil embargo against Japan (and freezing of Japanese assets) in the summer of 1941

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Second_period_(October_1938_%E2%80%93_December_1941)

    Now today, PRC’s legal claim to Taiwan isn’t ethnic irredentism, but rather in accordance to former US policy actions

    1. Taiwan was originally ceded by Qing to Japan per Treaty of Shimonoseki (1895)

    2. It was agreed to be returned to ROC at Cairo and Potsdam Conferences by United States and British Empire

    “all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China”,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Conference

    …when US needed ROC as an ally against Japan.

    3. UN Resolution 2758 (1971)

    recognized the People’s Republic of China (PRC) as “the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations” and removed “the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek” from the United Nations.[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan#Legal_arguments

    …which came after the Sino-Soviet Conflict (1969) when US needed PRC as an ally against the Soviet Union.

    • Thanks: Yellowface Anon
  685. @German_reader
    @iffen

    Probably never. Personally I'm in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there's almost always an agenda of the "group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior", often coupled with specific material demands. In a tribal world excessive focus on the past crimes of one's own group is tantamount to unilateral disarmament.

    Replies: @iffen, @Yahya, @Yahya

    Probably never. Personally I’m in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there’s almost always an agenda of the “group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior”, often coupled with specific material demands.

    You can’t be in favor of historical truth if the first thing that comes to your mind when historical claims are made are the socio-political implications of such claims. You also can’t be interested in historical truth if your only source of self-esteem comes from your group identity, and so you refuse to countenance any harm done by your group towards others.

    This was made obvious to me a while back on AE’s blog, when a claim was made against Churchill being partly culpable for the Bengal famine of 1943, and a particularly deranged commenter, who was obviously tied up in his perceived racial identity to an unusual and odd degree, started whining like a little bitch and nonsensically claiming that an obscure comment on an obscure website was somehow going to lead to more Indian immigration to the West. The commenter then presumptuously proceeded to attempt to shut down factual discussions of the Bengal famine, by making even more inane socio-political arguments against discussing the famine.

    It’s hard not to suspect that these sort of reactions are more motivated by feelings being hurt than any historical or even socio-political basis. Especially because, when supposed “ancestors” are involved, loser-types whose only source self-esteem comes from their “ancestors” start getting their panties in a wad over minor criticisms of past political leaders. This was also true of the previously-mentioned commenter, who deluded himself into thinking that Churchill was somehow his ancestor, and so took criticism of him as a personal affront, even though it was a mathematical near-impossibility that any 1940s British leader was an ancestor of an Irish-American (Lol!) such as the commenter in question.

    But anyway, that is just one example of politics and feelings trumping facts and truth when it comes to discussing history. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of that in today’s academia; and it’s not a good trend for those who hold objectivity and truth as paramount values when it comes to discussing history.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yahya

    I generally agree with much of your comment (paradoxical as that may seem, given my previous comments in this discussion). I don't think I have a habit of denying historical crimes committed by Germans, or habitually engage in whataboutism when they're mentioned (though I will point out things that imo are questionable or when I regard some judgement as being evidence of egregious double standards). I would even agree that "We never did anything wrong" glorification of the past record of one's own ethnic, cultural or religious group is intellectually and morally lazy, and potentially dangerous, since it could engender a mindset where one's own group is always in the right, heroic, or an innocent victim of others, and therefore entitled to take any measures to defend itself (or rather present any actions it takes as inherently defensive and virtuous).

    However, imo there is no denying that past historical crimes are frequently wielded as weapons in inter-group conflicts, and the people who do so have no interest in caring about historical accuracy either. You mention the Bengal famine, and that Churchill was partly culpable for it. This is probably true (and one can find Churchill's attitude rather callous, and in any case his views on India were anachronistic by the time and widely seen as such), but for many of those who go on about the Bengal famine it's become a certainty that the British (collectively, not just certain imperial elites) were wholly responsible for it, and that it was some kind of deliberate atrocity, which Britain supposedly is in denial about, has to face up to and make amends for, probably by yet more multiculturalist and anti-national policies. So you could say it's to some extent a battle between rival mythologies ("British empire was a force for good, we have reason to be proud of our history" vs "British empire was totally evil, you have to pay for it"), and if it comes down to a binary choice between two such alternatives, I would choose the one advantageous for my own group, even if I didn't like having to make such a choice.
    I'm a bit tired right now and don't want to write more at the moment, sorry. I hope my position has become clearer.

    Replies: @iffen

  686. @German_reader
    @Hyperborean

    I actually tend to agree that committed minorities often have an outsized influence. Still, it's quite the reach to get from that to the idea that integralists could remould the US according to their preferences, when their project has no roots at all in US history (much less than wokeness imo) and runs totally counter to the hegemonic culture.
    And I have to say on a personal level I just find Vermeule repellent from the little I've read. Typical lawyer scum, with his idea that his vision could be implemented by taking over the judicial system, like gay marriage advocates did. Not even a hint of heroic sentiment.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Typical lawyer scum, with his idea that his vision could be implemented by taking over the judicial system, like gay marriage advocates did. Not even a hint of heroic sentiment.

    You really surprise me here. Say that, by some miracle, German nats are poised to take over in 2022, with the promise that all racial non-Germans will be removed from German territory, but they only achieved that position through slimy lawyermerchantjew means rather than heroic Germanic means, you would seriously, even now, at this late date, make that a criterion for acceptability?

  687. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @German_reader

    Re, Natufians: don’t know much about them in-depth to be able to give an answer of much substance. But from what I’ve read, the Natufian culture emerged in the Levant region (Palestine/Israel, Jordan and Syria) at about 15,000 BC and lasted until 11,500 BC. It’s notable for being one of the first permanent sedentary settlement in the world. Prior to the Natufians, bands of people had moved seasonally, to follow animals for hunting and to gather available plants. The Natufians set the stage for the first complex civilizations by being the first to build permanent homes and developing the tools and techniques necessary to cultivate edible plants. Though they relied on traditional hunting and gathering (primarily of fish, gazelles and wild cereals) for most of their sustenance, Natufians were also capable of producing large quantities of groat meals from roasted, “half green” barley grain. Moreover, they made advances in agro-technical systems which made it possible to produce the fine flour needed for what has become the world’s most widespread staple food: bread.

    At Natufian sites is also some of the earliest archaeological evidence of dog domestication. At the Natufian site of Ain Mallaha in Israel/Palestine, dated to 12,000 B.C., an elderly human and a four-to-five-month-old puppy were found buried together. At another Natufian site, the cave of Hayonim, humans were found buried with two dogs.

    This is a good source for more on the Natufian culture: https://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub362/entry-6006.html


    tbh I think neither you nor I know enough about India to really have any idea what is behind the differences between north and south India. I doubt it can be reduced merely to Portuguese rule or Catholicism, there must be many other factors (there are vast differences between the regions after all, linguistically, culturally, in the caste system…arguably the people in north and south India aren’t even the same genetically).

     

    The first thing to understand about South Asians is that they are more alike to each other, genetically speaking, than they are to non-South Asian groups. Some Northwest Indian groups like Kashmiri Pandits like to think of themselves as being racially different from the darker Indians in the South and East; due to their more West Asian-like appearance. But genetics indicates that Northwest Indians/Pakistanis are still more related to other South Asians than to West Asians or Europeans.

    More broadly, all South Asian groups can be thought of as a mixture between two populations, which, before their mixture, were as different racially from each other as Europeans are from East Asians:

    (A) Ancestral North Indians (ANI) - The ANI are a West Eurasian (i.e. Caucasoid) population closely related to Europeans, Near Easterners, and people of the Caucasus. They are comprised of 30% Indo-Aryan steppe pastoralists (Sintashta) and 70% Indus Valley (IVC) people. IVC stands for “Indus Valley Civilization”, a people who developed the ancient IV civilization and were themselves composed of (a) 65% Iranian farmers who migrated to Pakistan/Northwest India, (b) 25% Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), and (c) 10% Paleo-Siberian. A Kashmiri Pandit Brahmin from the far north is about 70% ANI and 30% ASI. The Kalash people of Northwest Pakistan are close to 100% ANI, hence their West Asian/European appearance. A member of the lower castes in South India are only 30% ANI, and 70% ASI.

    (B) Ancestral South Indians (ASI) - The ASI descend from a population not related to any present-day populations outside India. They are closely related to the people of the Andaman Islands in the Southeast Bay of Bengal. The Andaman Islanders have a very Negroid-like appearance and are notably black-skinned, not brown. ASI is itself derived from (a) 70% Ancient Ancestral South Indians (AASI), and (b) 30% IVC people. The Paliyar tribe of South India are almost 100% ASI, meaning they lack the Indo-Aryan steppe component found in the North.

    Since the Indo-Aryan people are perhaps the most significant population to have affected the trajectory of Indian history, I’ll touch more upon them here. One key thing to keep in mind about the Sintashta people is that, while they would almost certainly be labeled “white” by today’s conceptions, they were probably not the blonde, blue-eyed Nordic-looking people usually visualized when one thinks about Aryans. Based on genomic data, the Sintashta people were mostly dark brown or black-haired, and only a small minority had blue eyes.

    In terms of genetics, about 15% of the ancestry among modern South Asians can be attributed to people from the steppe. In the Northwest, it is closer to 25%. Among Brahmins across the North, the figure hovers around 30%, while Brahmins in the South are about 20% steppe. Peasants in the Gangetic plain are closer to 15% steppe. Dalits in the North have less than non-Dalit cultivators, while Dalits and tribal people in the South have almost no steppe ancestry. Within South Asia, the Jatt farmers of Punjab seem to be the group with the most steppe ancestry.

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1916a186fa5c2833ee6c73aeeebbc464-pjlq


    Additionally, most steppe ancestry is carried on the paternal side of modern Indians, suggesting that male Aryan invaders mixed with (or more brutally, raped) the local natives they invaded ~3,000 years ago. About 25% of South Asian males share the Indo-Aryan R1A haplogroup, with the highest fractions found in the Northwest, among Indo-Aryan speakers (who account for over 80% of the people of the subcontinent) and in Brahmin communities.


    https://s01.sgp1.digitaloceanspaces.com/large/874102-85930-hlmhnnzqzl-1522612375.jpeg


    North Indian:


    https://images.indianexpress.com/2019/10/Tamannaah-Bhatia-759.jpg


    South Indian:


    https://thenewsmen.co.in/public/upload/news/story_image_1625142415.jpg


    Kashmiri Pandit (70% ANI, 30% ASI):


    https://images.hindustantimes.com/img/2021/11/13/1600x900/7162b140-44b7-11ec-9093-36a2136aa648_1636835929964.jpg


    Kalash Tribe (~100% ANI):


    https://i0.wp.com/www.yoair.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/kalash-valley-people.jpg?w=800&ssl=1


    Paliyar Tribe (~100% ASI):


    https://dz01iyojmxk8t.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/21175637/IMG_20200514_121617.jpg


    Andaman Islanders (100% AASI):


    https://www.asiangeo.com/2019/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/175095813-1068x693.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader

    Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it.
    Natufians seem to have been pretty important for the development of early agricultural societies, too bad that it will probably always be impossible to reconstruct much of their culture. I wonder what language they spoke (iirc there’s evidence from place names etc. that speakers of Semitic languages only spread relatively late over much of the Mideast, probably being pastoral peoples who took over sedentary societies, maybe not entirely unlike the Indo-Europeans).

    The first thing to understand about South Asians is that they are more alike to each other, genetically speaking, than they are to non-South Asian groups.

    Sure, but the proportions of the ancestral components are different in North and South India.
    It’s also my understanding that some genetic studies indicate very deep roots for the caste system; some groups at least seem to have been endogamous for a very long time. So there probably must be some non-trivial genetic stratification within India, that may not yet be entirely understood (note, I have no hypothesis of my own about what any of this could mean, I certainly don’t feel confident in making any pronouncements about Indian matters).

    • Replies: @Jatt Aryaa
    @German_reader

    North Indians outside of the North West ie Punjab Sindh Kashmir are more similar to South.

    However, even Gujarat & Maharashtra are distinct from this cline & Brahmins + NW cluster with C Asia, but we're still Indian.

    The aforementioned groups are literally closer to an Anatolian or Avar than a common N Indian.

    I suspect Yahya is a black bastard who got kicked out in partition and has to cope with being a slave in a mostly Punjabi + Pashtun nation।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  688. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Probably never. Personally I’m in favour of historical truth, but I think songbird is right, when people talk about historical crimes, there’s almost always an agenda of the “group xy is terrible, whereas my favored group is morally superior”, often coupled with specific material demands.
     
    You can't be in favor of historical truth if the first thing that comes to your mind when historical claims are made are the socio-political implications of such claims. You also can't be interested in historical truth if your only source of self-esteem comes from your group identity, and so you refuse to countenance any harm done by your group towards others.

    This was made obvious to me a while back on AE's blog, when a claim was made against Churchill being partly culpable for the Bengal famine of 1943, and a particularly deranged commenter, who was obviously tied up in his perceived racial identity to an unusual and odd degree, started whining like a little bitch and nonsensically claiming that an obscure comment on an obscure website was somehow going to lead to more Indian immigration to the West. The commenter then presumptuously proceeded to attempt to shut down factual discussions of the Bengal famine, by making even more inane socio-political arguments against discussing the famine.

    It's hard not to suspect that these sort of reactions are more motivated by feelings being hurt than any historical or even socio-political basis. Especially because, when supposed "ancestors" are involved, loser-types whose only source self-esteem comes from their "ancestors" start getting their panties in a wad over minor criticisms of past political leaders. This was also true of the previously-mentioned commenter, who deluded himself into thinking that Churchill was somehow his ancestor, and so took criticism of him as a personal affront, even though it was a mathematical near-impossibility that any 1940s British leader was an ancestor of an Irish-American (Lol!) such as the commenter in question.

    But anyway, that is just one example of politics and feelings trumping facts and truth when it comes to discussing history. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of that in today's academia; and it's not a good trend for those who hold objectivity and truth as paramount values when it comes to discussing history.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I generally agree with much of your comment (paradoxical as that may seem, given my previous comments in this discussion). I don’t think I have a habit of denying historical crimes committed by Germans, or habitually engage in whataboutism when they’re mentioned (though I will point out things that imo are questionable or when I regard some judgement as being evidence of egregious double standards). I would even agree that “We never did anything wrong” glorification of the past record of one’s own ethnic, cultural or religious group is intellectually and morally lazy, and potentially dangerous, since it could engender a mindset where one’s own group is always in the right, heroic, or an innocent victim of others, and therefore entitled to take any measures to defend itself (or rather present any actions it takes as inherently defensive and virtuous).

    However, imo there is no denying that past historical crimes are frequently wielded as weapons in inter-group conflicts, and the people who do so have no interest in caring about historical accuracy either. You mention the Bengal famine, and that Churchill was partly culpable for it. This is probably true (and one can find Churchill’s attitude rather callous, and in any case his views on India were anachronistic by the time and widely seen as such), but for many of those who go on about the Bengal famine it’s become a certainty that the British (collectively, not just certain imperial elites) were wholly responsible for it, and that it was some kind of deliberate atrocity, which Britain supposedly is in denial about, has to face up to and make amends for, probably by yet more multiculturalist and anti-national policies. So you could say it’s to some extent a battle between rival mythologies (“British empire was a force for good, we have reason to be proud of our history” vs “British empire was totally evil, you have to pay for it”), and if it comes down to a binary choice between two such alternatives, I would choose the one advantageous for my own group, even if I didn’t like having to make such a choice.
    I’m a bit tired right now and don’t want to write more at the moment, sorry. I hope my position has become clearer.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @German_reader

    Well, sure, you're throwing in with the Brits, so we will give you time to recover. Obviously, I can't make a career of every nuance, but from my limited reading the Bengali Famine falls upon Indian inter-regional dysfunction spearheaded by both English and Indian administrators.

  689. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Did the Indians not raid and counter-raid each other?
     
    iirc they also pretty much tried to destroy the colonies in New England during King Philip's war (the worst Indian war in North America ever), which killed a non-trivial percentage of the colonists (not inclined to look it up in detail now, but according to wiki about 20% of the male colonists of military age; and of course the Indians killed women and children too when they had the chance). So the colonists had reasons from personal experience to be embittered and hate the Indians, it wasn't just their interpretation of the OT or whatever the anti-Protestant commenters like AP and utu here seem to imagine.
    I agree with you more generally, today is absolutely the worst time imaginable to go on about alleged colonial crimes from 350 years ago.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird, @iffen, @AP

    That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries. The slaughters were mutual and cruel but the Colonists were at fault. They ended up slaughtering more Indians than vice versa.

    Note than when during a similar conflict some French colonists were slaughtered, the French administration prevented counter-massacres in order to promote peace between the peoples:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    “ They defended some of the fleeing colonists from their Mohawk pursuers, but just prior to reaching Lachine, the armed forces were recalled to Fort Rolland by the order of Governor Denonville, who was trying to pacify the local Iroquois inhabitants.[20] He had 700 soldiers at his disposal within the Montreal barracks and might have overtaken the Iroquois forces but decided to follow a diplomatic route.“

    It’s was a very different result than what happened during King Phillips War. But the French Catholics were just better people with a better worldview than the English Calvinists.

    I agree that bringing this stuff up in some sort of public campaign serves no good purpose. The comment section of this blog is not a public campaign.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries.
     
    I haven't seen that claim anywhere about the origins of King Philip's war, are you sure?
    I'd have to look it up in academic literature, but according to Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, bad source) the prehistory of the war seems to have been a bit more complicated; consider this person (native convert to Christianity who studied at Harvard, and whose murder played a role in the beginning of the war...doesn't really fit your claim that the Calvinists only wanted to enslave or exterminate the natives):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sassamon

    Replies: @German_reader

  690. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader

    That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries. The slaughters were mutual and cruel but the Colonists were at fault. They ended up slaughtering more Indians than vice versa.

    Note than when during a similar conflict some French colonists were slaughtered, the French administration prevented counter-massacres in order to promote peace between the peoples:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    “ They defended some of the fleeing colonists from their Mohawk pursuers, but just prior to reaching Lachine, the armed forces were recalled to Fort Rolland by the order of Governor Denonville, who was trying to pacify the local Iroquois inhabitants.[20] He had 700 soldiers at his disposal within the Montreal barracks and might have overtaken the Iroquois forces but decided to follow a diplomatic route.“

    It’s was a very different result than what happened during King Phillips War. But the French Catholics were just better people with a better worldview than the English Calvinists.

    I agree that bringing this stuff up in some sort of public campaign serves no good purpose. The comment section of this blog is not a public campaign.

    Replies: @German_reader

    That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries.

    I haven’t seen that claim anywhere about the origins of King Philip’s war, are you sure?
    I’d have to look it up in academic literature, but according to Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, bad source) the prehistory of the war seems to have been a bit more complicated; consider this person (native convert to Christianity who studied at Harvard, and whose murder played a role in the beginning of the war…doesn’t really fit your claim that the Calvinists only wanted to enslave or exterminate the natives):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sassamon

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @German_reader

    I think I need to look more into this, I was vaguely aware that the New England Puritans had undertaken some effort to convert the natives, but at least with some of them it seems to have gone much further than I had realized:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Indian_Bible

    Surely an impressive achievement.
    And more generally:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praying_town

    It seems that King Philip's war with its mutual violence had a radicalizing effect and did much to destroy such initiatives. But in any case, it seems to me the wholesale condemnation of the New England Calvinists in contrast to Catholic colonialists is overdrawn.

    Replies: @AP

  691. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Were. The Netherlands exist as distinct from Germany as a whole because of Dutch naval and commercial power. If the whole Lower Countries had stayed Habsburg, then it would have been unified into a part of a continental German state. (Likewise with Austria staying out of Germany)

    The Holy Roman Empire was actually as diverse as Western Slavdom in the Early Modern Age, or France before the massive centralization of the 17-18th centuries, or Italy up to the Unification. Only Nationalism consolidated those disparate regions.

    Replies: @AP

    The Dutch language is about as different from
    German as Ukrainian is from Russian. If the Netherlands had been politically absorbed into Germany, might the Dutch plus Low German speakers have coalesced into some larger non-German nation than the Dutch alone? The German-French wars would have provided space for such a development.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @AP

    You need to stop Germany from unifying. German regional dialects (topolects might be more appropriate) are as close as each other as Italian Romance languages.

    Replies: @AP

  692. @Thulean Friend
    God Jul, folks. Instead of focusing on materialism, we should think about the poor and the downtrodden.

    Belarus-Poland border crisis has become a roadblock for illegal Indian migrants in Europe

    In a village of Punjab’s Samana district, 48-year-old Raj Kumar Singh was worried for days on end after a call from his his son, 22-year-old Hardeep. “He was in the jungles of Poland. He had crossed the Belarus border. He is very young and he can’t put up with so much difficulty,” said Singh, his voice cracking with emotion.

    Singh does not know much about his son’s friends. “When he used to call, he used to say that one is from Jalandhar, one is from Ludhiana and one is Jamsher. They were all from distant villages. They didn’t know each other here. They met there.”

    “He had never travelled abroad. This was his first visit and that is why he got caught in this difficult situation. He didn’t know anything,” said Singh. Sometime in September this year, Hardeep packed his bags and left India. “He went to Russia telling us he would go to work there. He lived and worked there for 1.5 months. Approximately a month after he reached, someone instigated him, brainwashed him. They filled his head with rubbish that he would be able to do this and that in Europe.”

    “They used a donker. It is a code word,” Sharma said of the four men who found themselves stranded in between Belarus and Poland. The origins of the word ‘donker’ is not clear, but it may have Indian roots, from the word ‘donkey’, used for transportation, and is now widely in the business of illegal immigration. In Europe, the word ‘donker’ is used for a car service that ferries migrants from one country and leaves them at the border of another.

    Nadeem Jatt operates a donker service across this region but did not want to speak about his business in detail because of the work it entails. On Sharma’s referral, Jatt reached the Belarus-Poland border to help the four men leave. “The last time the boys contacted me, I told them to wait for me at a specific spot. Then within a few minutes the boys and their acquaintances…took over and began coordinating their own thing,” Jatt told indianexpress.com. It was during this time that the four men began searching for cheaper donker services.

    It may just have been a decision that added to their difficulties. It is unclear what happened to the four men at the border, but their presence there that week coincided with an escalation in pushbacks of migrants by Polish border guards. Ocalenie Foundation, a Polish organisation that helps migrants and refugees, had reported that the Polish border guards were also taking away phones from migrants and pushing them back towards Belarus, from where they were eventually being deported. None of the four men responded to indianexpress.com’s requests for interviews and soon after, their phones were reportedly confiscated by the Polish border guards.

    “Getting a Belarusian or a Russian visa is relatively easier than getting a Schengen visa. The men come here and then they sneak into the Polish and Lithuanian border, because up until recently, they were pretty porous borders,” said an Indian national in Belarus, who has lived in the country for over three decades, requesting anonymity.

    This past week, Singh finally heard from his son. Hardeep told his family that he was back in Russia with his three friends after being deported by Belarus and had found accommodation in the city. “He is unemployed now—vella—but he is all right,” Singh said. “We thought that he would work in Russia and collect some money and manage his living expenses. After he had collected enough, he would come back and then we would see what to do next.”

    That week, Belarusian officials began clearing makeshift camps that migrants had set up on the Belarusian side of the border, moving migrants to a nearby processing center. Some migrants, having lost hope, started to head back to their countries of origin. Others like Hardeep and his friends have stayed back in the region, still clinging on to their dreams of reaching Western Europe.


     

    Migration is not a crime.

    Replies: @iffen, @silviosilver, @LatW

    Who would be the “poor and downtrodden” here? Grown men who use “donker” (trafficker) services and deliberately break foreign countries’ laws?

    What happened on the Polish border this year was tragic, but it needed to be done in order to stop the creation of a migration route in the Baltic region. It is true that some migrants suffer heavily in Belarus. People should be treated with dignity, but people should also be held responsible for their deliberate actions.

    Illegal migration is a crime.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Well I'm a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it's not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants' situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    "68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey." https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump's rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    -
    * I'm not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @songbird, @Mikel

  693. @German_reader
    @Yahya

    I generally agree with much of your comment (paradoxical as that may seem, given my previous comments in this discussion). I don't think I have a habit of denying historical crimes committed by Germans, or habitually engage in whataboutism when they're mentioned (though I will point out things that imo are questionable or when I regard some judgement as being evidence of egregious double standards). I would even agree that "We never did anything wrong" glorification of the past record of one's own ethnic, cultural or religious group is intellectually and morally lazy, and potentially dangerous, since it could engender a mindset where one's own group is always in the right, heroic, or an innocent victim of others, and therefore entitled to take any measures to defend itself (or rather present any actions it takes as inherently defensive and virtuous).

    However, imo there is no denying that past historical crimes are frequently wielded as weapons in inter-group conflicts, and the people who do so have no interest in caring about historical accuracy either. You mention the Bengal famine, and that Churchill was partly culpable for it. This is probably true (and one can find Churchill's attitude rather callous, and in any case his views on India were anachronistic by the time and widely seen as such), but for many of those who go on about the Bengal famine it's become a certainty that the British (collectively, not just certain imperial elites) were wholly responsible for it, and that it was some kind of deliberate atrocity, which Britain supposedly is in denial about, has to face up to and make amends for, probably by yet more multiculturalist and anti-national policies. So you could say it's to some extent a battle between rival mythologies ("British empire was a force for good, we have reason to be proud of our history" vs "British empire was totally evil, you have to pay for it"), and if it comes down to a binary choice between two such alternatives, I would choose the one advantageous for my own group, even if I didn't like having to make such a choice.
    I'm a bit tired right now and don't want to write more at the moment, sorry. I hope my position has become clearer.

    Replies: @iffen

    Well, sure, you’re throwing in with the Brits, so we will give you time to recover. Obviously, I can’t make a career of every nuance, but from my limited reading the Bengali Famine falls upon Indian inter-regional dysfunction spearheaded by both English and Indian administrators.

  694. German_reader says:
    @German_reader
    @AP


    That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries.
     
    I haven't seen that claim anywhere about the origins of King Philip's war, are you sure?
    I'd have to look it up in academic literature, but according to Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, bad source) the prehistory of the war seems to have been a bit more complicated; consider this person (native convert to Christianity who studied at Harvard, and whose murder played a role in the beginning of the war...doesn't really fit your claim that the Calvinists only wanted to enslave or exterminate the natives):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sassamon

    Replies: @German_reader

    I think I need to look more into this, I was vaguely aware that the New England Puritans had undertaken some effort to convert the natives, but at least with some of them it seems to have gone much further than I had realized:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Indian_Bible

    Surely an impressive achievement.
    And more generally:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praying_town

    It seems that King Philip’s war with its mutual violence had a radicalizing effect and did much to destroy such initiatives. But in any case, it seems to me the wholesale condemnation of the New England Calvinists in contrast to Catholic colonialists is overdrawn.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader


    "That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries."

    I haven’t seen that claim anywhere about the origins of King Philip’s war, are you sure?
    I’d have to look it up in academic literature, but according to Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, bad source) the prehistory of the war seems to have been a bit more complicated;
     
    I was wrong about the hanged Indians being emissaries - they were convicted of murdering the convert, who had been determined to have been a spy by the Indians.

    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists - they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    Wiki: "Metacom, however, forsook his father's alliance between the Wampanoags and the colonists after repeated violations by the colonists.[7] The colonists insisted that the 1671 peace agreement should include the surrender of Native guns; then three Wampanoags were hanged in Plymouth Colony in 1675 for the murder of another Wampanoag"

    https://www.britannica.com/event/King-Philips-War

    Britannica: "The war’s proximate cause was Plymouth Colony’s execution in June 1675 of three of Philip’s warriors. They had been tried and found guilty of murdering John Sassamon, a Harvard-educated “praying Indian” convert to Puritanism who had served as an interpreter and advisor to Philip but whom Philip had accused of spying for the colonists. His murder ignited a tinderbox of tensions between Indians and whites that had been smoldering for 55 years over competing land claims (including disputes over the grazing of colonial livestock on hunting and fishing grounds), interracial insensitivities, and English cultural encroachment on Native America."

    It seems that King Philip’s war with its mutual violence had a radicalizing effect and did much to destroy such initiatives.
     
    Yes. It contrasted with the French who diffused conflict by refusing to retaliate.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pequot-War

    In that war, the Pequot were the first to kill civilians (30 settlers total), but the English response of wiping them all out was rather disproportionate.

    The Mystic Massacre from that war:

    Mason* later declared that the attack against the Pequots was the act of a God who "laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to scorn", making the Pequot fort "as a fiery Oven", and "thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen."[23] Of the estimated 500 Pequots in the fort, seven were taken prisoner and another seven escaped to the woods.[24]"

    So the general pattern was Colonist encroachment, some murders by Indians, and then total unmerciful war and destruction of the Indians.

    it seems to me the wholesale condemnation of the New England Calvinists in contrast to Catholic colonialists is overdrawn.
     
    I agree that there were nuances and the efforts by some Puritans during a limited time were quite laudable. But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach. The differing approaches explains why New England has few Indians (there are some with very mixed descent who operate casinos) while Quebec has many (and I am not even including the ones in the far North). There is nothing in the history of New France like the scale of the mass killings during the Pequot War and King Phillips war by the Calvinist English. The mass killings, more than latitude or soil, explains why there are far fewer Indians in New England than in Quebec.


    * Interesting, from wiki, an example of white progressives trying to remove a statue against the wishes of the Indians whose people were the victims of the massacre:



    "In 2020 a statue of Captain John Mason at Palisado Green in Windsor, Connecticut (along with a similar statue of Christopher Columbus in the same area) was subject to calls for its removal following in the wake of national civil rights protests about Confederate statues. The statue, which was originally erected on the site of the Mystic Massacre in 1889, was moved to Windsor in 1996 because it was the location of Mason's home.[13] In September 2020, the town council voted 5-4 to remove statue and give it to Windsor Historical Society.[14] But Dr. Kevin McBride, Director of Research at the Pequot Museum noted that when it was removed from its original location of the Mystic Massacre in the 1990s, the Pequot's tribal chairman Skip Hayward was against its removal because "If you take it down," he said, "no one will remember what happened here."[14]"

    Replies: @German_reader

  695. @German_reader
    @silviosilver


    I don’t think Sailer is serious about that though.
     
    Just look at Sailer's snarky replies to commenter "John Regan" in this thread (note: I don't agree with "John Regan", at least not fully, imo his revisionism goes too far):
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/pearl-harbor/

    Then compare that with his non-reaction to the bloodthirsty commenter "Johann Ricke" (who thinks the Allies would have been morally justified in killing every single Japanese and German. Ricke has a long history of similar comments, and unsurprisingly he's also advocated bombing Iran in the past, or that Israel should nuke Germany and other former Axis countries if threatened with defeat, so it isn't merely a historical question).
    Anyway, I don't care much about Sailer and his blog, but whenever I read his comments' section I find something to remind me why in the end I'm not all that sympathetic to MAGA (A123's comments here serve a similar function).

    Replies: @silviosilver, @A123

    GR,

    It is very sad that you choose today, of all days, to take cheap shots at Jesus and his MAGA followers. However:

    I Offer Forgiveness

    🎄 Merry Christmas🎄

    • Thanks: German_reader
  696. Florda Governor DeSantis delivers a message of redemption & genuine hope & redemption on this Holy Day.

     

     
    ____

    IS 9:1-6

    The people who walked in darkness
    have seen a great light;
    upon those who dwelt in the land of gloom
    a light has shone.
    You have brought them abundant joy
    and great rejoicing,
    as they rejoice before you as at the harvest,
    as people make merry when dividing spoils.
    For the yoke that burdened them,
    the pole on their shoulder,
    and the rod of their taskmaster
    you have smashed, as on the day of Midian.
    For every boot that tramped in battle,
    every cloak rolled in blood,
    will be burned as fuel for flames.
    For a child is born to us, a son is given us;
    upon his shoulder dominion rests.
    They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero,
    Father-Forever, Prince of Peace.
    His dominion is vast
    and forever peaceful,
    from David’s throne, and over his kingdom,
    which he confirms and sustains
    by judgment and justice,
    both now and forever.
    The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this!

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
  697. @silviosilver
    @sher singh


    The impression I get from your post is you don’t view women as property, but as sentient original & individual beings with an ability to give consent.
     
    Drat, I'm busted. Try as I might, I guess there's just no hiding my eccentricities.

    Calling a Singh a copey pajeet while you’re an unarmed med is rich.
     
    One of the benefits of civilization - the western variety, at any rate - is being able to walk around unarmed. (And to not live in mortal fear of a hair cut, also worth mentioning.)

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    You’re a homosexual, confirmed. You shirk your duty to protect others the way a gay rejects his lineage.
    Enjoy watching your women be taken by darker races. 🤷‍♀️⚔️

    I’ll rent you out to Afghans by the hour,
    That’s all unarmed christian white men are worth।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Jatt Aryaa

    Put a sock in it, you silly pajeet. All this clamor simply because you misunderstood my original point, sheesh.

    I did learn something though. Apparently, mocking someone for being "unarmed" is a thing among at least part of the pajeet community. Interesting. Though the thought that I'd need to be armed in order to defend myself against the typical pajeet is actually quite funny. Where I live is beginning to crawl with them. Quite a friendly bunch, really - not that I'm interested in getting close, but it's better to see smiles than to see scowls (like on your average sullen groid). I wouldn't have expected they might harbor this much rancor.

  698. @German_reader
    @Yahya

    Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it.
    Natufians seem to have been pretty important for the development of early agricultural societies, too bad that it will probably always be impossible to reconstruct much of their culture. I wonder what language they spoke (iirc there's evidence from place names etc. that speakers of Semitic languages only spread relatively late over much of the Mideast, probably being pastoral peoples who took over sedentary societies, maybe not entirely unlike the Indo-Europeans).


    The first thing to understand about South Asians is that they are more alike to each other, genetically speaking, than they are to non-South Asian groups.
     
    Sure, but the proportions of the ancestral components are different in North and South India.
    It's also my understanding that some genetic studies indicate very deep roots for the caste system; some groups at least seem to have been endogamous for a very long time. So there probably must be some non-trivial genetic stratification within India, that may not yet be entirely understood (note, I have no hypothesis of my own about what any of this could mean, I certainly don't feel confident in making any pronouncements about Indian matters).

    Replies: @Jatt Aryaa

    North Indians outside of the North West ie Punjab Sindh Kashmir are more similar to South.

    However, even Gujarat & Maharashtra are distinct from this cline & Brahmins + NW cluster with C Asia, but we’re still Indian.

    The aforementioned groups are literally closer to an Anatolian or Avar than a common N Indian.

    I suspect Yahya is a black bastard who got kicked out in partition and has to cope with being a slave in a mostly Punjabi + Pashtun nation।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  699. I don’t know about you guys, but given the moratorium on arresting shoplifters, I think I could live pretty damn well on \$950 a day in SoCal.

    \$950 day, hmmm….\$346,750/yr tax free. I wonder what that would be pre-tax, half a mil? That’s just the once a day slackers.

    Seizin’s greetin’s!

    [img]https://lasentinel.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2020/12/Black-Santa-2-1.jpg[/img]

    • Replies: @Max Demian
    @Pontius


    Seizin’s greetin’s!
     
    LOL

    With the present economic situation being what it is, one might wonder: Will this be the winter of our discount tent?

    https://images.lookhuman.com/render/standard/8550002446801460/3600-athletic_gray-z1-t-discount-tent.png
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/3d/c9/493dc9ebb8f217879f19441d9af06204.jpg

    ~ ~ ~
    I wish blackberries were still in season*
    https://i1.wp.com/voiceontheweb.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/BBClassicEvolution.jpg?fit=1025%2C572&ssl=1
    https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/blackberry-trifecta1.jpg?quality=85&w=1200&h=628&crop=1

    *I.e., not obsolete.

    https://bensbargains.net/thecheckout/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/discount-tent.jpg
    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pXEfWG35L._SX300_.jpg
  700. Hat tips to the censors who figured this out. Russia should be next and finally America, like what A123 said. Wipe the gamers out!

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Yellowface Anon

    BTW, Svidomyatheart found out this before me.

    I think there has always been an angle of siege mentality/defence against cultural warfare that could have been carried by foreign social media sites, media and pop culture into China. And that harms the memetically autarkic goal China wants to pursue (and has pursued for the last millenium)

  701. @AP
    @Yellowface Anon

    The Dutch language is about as different from
    German as Ukrainian is from Russian. If the Netherlands had been politically absorbed into Germany, might the Dutch plus Low German speakers have coalesced into some larger non-German nation than the Dutch alone? The German-French wars would have provided space for such a development.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    You need to stop Germany from unifying. German regional dialects (topolects might be more appropriate) are as close as each other as Italian Romance languages.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @AP
    @Yellowface Anon

    Dutch is about as distinct from German as Portuguese is from Spanish. Are the regional languages in Italy as distinct from each other as Portuguese is from Spanish?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  702. @Yellowface Anon
    https://twitter.com/SteamDB/status/1474685012339531780

    Hat tips to the censors who figured this out. Russia should be next and finally America, like what A123 said. Wipe the gamers out!

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    BTW, Svidomyatheart found out this before me.

    I think there has always been an angle of siege mentality/defence against cultural warfare that could have been carried by foreign social media sites, media and pop culture into China. And that harms the memetically autarkic goal China wants to pursue (and has pursued for the last millenium)

  703. @Jatt Aryaa
    @silviosilver

    You're a homosexual, confirmed. You shirk your duty to protect others the way a gay rejects his lineage.
    Enjoy watching your women be taken by darker races. 🤷‍♀️⚔️

    I'll rent you out to Afghans by the hour,
    That's all unarmed christian white men are worth।।

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Put a sock in it, you silly pajeet. All this clamor simply because you misunderstood my original point, sheesh.

    I did learn something though. Apparently, mocking someone for being “unarmed” is a thing among at least part of the pajeet community. Interesting. Though the thought that I’d need to be armed in order to defend myself against the typical pajeet is actually quite funny. Where I live is beginning to crawl with them. Quite a friendly bunch, really – not that I’m interested in getting close, but it’s better to see smiles than to see scowls (like on your average sullen groid). I wouldn’t have expected they might harbor this much rancor.

  704. @German_reader
    @German_reader

    I think I need to look more into this, I was vaguely aware that the New England Puritans had undertaken some effort to convert the natives, but at least with some of them it seems to have gone much further than I had realized:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Indian_Bible

    Surely an impressive achievement.
    And more generally:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praying_town

    It seems that King Philip's war with its mutual violence had a radicalizing effect and did much to destroy such initiatives. But in any case, it seems to me the wholesale condemnation of the New England Calvinists in contrast to Catholic colonialists is overdrawn.

    Replies: @AP

    “That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries.”

    I haven’t seen that claim anywhere about the origins of King Philip’s war, are you sure?
    I’d have to look it up in academic literature, but according to Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, bad source) the prehistory of the war seems to have been a bit more complicated;

    I was wrong about the hanged Indians being emissaries – they were convicted of murdering the convert, who had been determined to have been a spy by the Indians.

    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    Wiki: “Metacom, however, forsook his father’s alliance between the Wampanoags and the colonists after repeated violations by the colonists.[7] The colonists insisted that the 1671 peace agreement should include the surrender of Native guns; then three Wampanoags were hanged in Plymouth Colony in 1675 for the murder of another Wampanoag”

    https://www.britannica.com/event/King-Philips-War

    Britannica: “The war’s proximate cause was Plymouth Colony’s execution in June 1675 of three of Philip’s warriors. They had been tried and found guilty of murdering John Sassamon, a Harvard-educated “praying Indian” convert to Puritanism who had served as an interpreter and advisor to Philip but whom Philip had accused of spying for the colonists. His murder ignited a tinderbox of tensions between Indians and whites that had been smoldering for 55 years over competing land claims (including disputes over the grazing of colonial livestock on hunting and fishing grounds), interracial insensitivities, and English cultural encroachment on Native America.”

    It seems that King Philip’s war with its mutual violence had a radicalizing effect and did much to destroy such initiatives.

    Yes. It contrasted with the French who diffused conflict by refusing to retaliate.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pequot-War

    In that war, the Pequot were the first to kill civilians (30 settlers total), but the English response of wiping them all out was rather disproportionate.

    The Mystic Massacre from that war:

    Mason* later declared that the attack against the Pequots was the act of a God who “laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to scorn”, making the Pequot fort “as a fiery Oven”, and “thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen.”[23] Of the estimated 500 Pequots in the fort, seven were taken prisoner and another seven escaped to the woods.[24]”

    So the general pattern was Colonist encroachment, some murders by Indians, and then total unmerciful war and destruction of the Indians.

    it seems to me the wholesale condemnation of the New England Calvinists in contrast to Catholic colonialists is overdrawn.

    I agree that there were nuances and the efforts by some Puritans during a limited time were quite laudable. But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach. The differing approaches explains why New England has few Indians (there are some with very mixed descent who operate casinos) while Quebec has many (and I am not even including the ones in the far North). There is nothing in the history of New France like the scale of the mass killings during the Pequot War and King Phillips war by the Calvinist English. The mass killings, more than latitude or soil, explains why there are far fewer Indians in New England than in Quebec.

    * Interesting, from wiki, an example of white progressives trying to remove a statue against the wishes of the Indians whose people were the victims of the massacre:

    [MORE]

    “In 2020 a statue of Captain John Mason at Palisado Green in Windsor, Connecticut (along with a similar statue of Christopher Columbus in the same area) was subject to calls for its removal following in the wake of national civil rights protests about Confederate statues. The statue, which was originally erected on the site of the Mystic Massacre in 1889, was moved to Windsor in 1996 because it was the location of Mason’s home.[13] In September 2020, the town council voted 5-4 to remove statue and give it to Windsor Historical Society.[14] But Dr. Kevin McBride, Director of Research at the Pequot Museum noted that when it was removed from its original location of the Mystic Massacre in the 1990s, the Pequot’s tribal chairman Skip Hayward was against its removal because “If you take it down,” he said, “no one will remember what happened here.”[14]”

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.
     
    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies? Did the Spanish let native communities keep weapons or respect their property claims? No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí (and I suppose much more could be cited by someone who knows more about Spanish America than I do). So I simply don't see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:
     
    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs, where certainly there also were plenty of massacres). So again a rather more complicated story than just "Calvinists commit genocide against harmless natives for no good reason".

    But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach.
     
    I don't know if those efforts were ended completely (and it seems to me relations with different Indian groups varied quite a lot), would have to look that up (and I can't comment on Quebec at all). But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed, and had never shown any interest at all in their conversion. imo that's clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.

    Replies: @songbird, @utu, @AP

  705. @Yellowface Anon
    @AP

    You need to stop Germany from unifying. German regional dialects (topolects might be more appropriate) are as close as each other as Italian Romance languages.

    Replies: @AP

    Dutch is about as distinct from German as Portuguese is from Spanish. Are the regional languages in Italy as distinct from each other as Portuguese is from Spanish?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @AP

    How distant is Neapolitan from Venetian? (This is rhetorical)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  706. @sher singh
    @songbird

    ਸਿੱਖ ਹੋਇ ਆਮਿਖ ਭਖੈ, ਬਿੱਪ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੋ ਖਾਇ ।
    A Sikh is one who eats meat, a Brahmin is one who does not.

    https://twitter.com/sri_asdhuj/status/1473960605572681728?s=20

    ਉਦਯ ਅਸਤ ਸਾਮੁਦ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਯੰਤੰ, ਅਬਿਚਲ ਰਾਜ ਮਿਲਯੋ ਸੁਰਪੁਰ ਕੋ ॥੪॥
    From where the sun rises to where it sets, across all the oceans, the Khalsa has received Eternal Kingdom from the Heavens.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CXuhEDNlmG7/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @songbird

    I was amazed to hear somewhere that India is the #1 beef exporter – water buffalo.

    Interesting animal. They say that the Ottomans used them to drag their battering rams when they entered Europe. Curious how it also seems to give a lot of milk (most in Pakistan), and was domesticated in India but is not considered a sacred animal.

    Never eaten it. Have the idea that it is full of worms, since aquatic. Not that there is anything wrong with that, if properly cooked. But if Indians ever triumph in their struggle against Pakistan and the Chinese, then American bison will probably be my first fallback.

  707. @silviosilver
    @songbird


    Every time I go to Youtube, I feel like a British officer during the first minute of the Sepoy Rebellion.
     
    Hahaha, a man after my own heart. God it shits me to tears searching for something on youtube and having to scroll past ten thousand videos with English titles but accompanied by hindi script and some pajeet in the thumbnail. How many times I've wished for a "no hindoos" search option. In fact, now I think about it, of all the Britishers' sins (real and imagined), teaching hindoos English surely ranks among the gravest of crimes against humanity.

    Replies: @songbird

    Any day now, Indians will get a direct flight connection to the US, via Anchorage.

    Billy Mitchell used to say that Anchorage was the key to dominating the world. Lord help us, if they take it.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @songbird

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but direct flights from India to NYC and other cities have been around for more than a decade.

    Replies: @songbird

  708. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    leap from this state of highly civilized to become extreme savages to outsiders.

     

    I wouldn't put it this way. Extreme savagery is the normal human condition; and there is significant element of that in East Asian culture. Japan lies on on perhaps the most natural disaster-prone terrain of any major country; given that they could lose loved ones at any moment, the Japanese just evolved to be especially stoic and reserved and sometimes fall back to the savagery.

    In addition, the Japanese banned the practices of extreme punishments and eunuchs around the same time as Europeans, far earlier than the Chinese who had it till the last day of Qing dynasty in 1912.

    Replies: @songbird

    In addition, the Japanese banned the practices of extreme punishments and eunuchs around the same time as Europeans, far earlier than the Chinese who had it till the last day of Qing dynasty in 1912.

    That’s interesting. I heard someone say that China was the only other society (other than European) to have a kind of indigenous effort to eliminate slavery. (Guess it was a kind of false start?)

    I’m inclined to think that castrati were one of the most barbaric things things that ever happened in Europe. But probably barbarians would have never done that. TBH, I think it speaks ill of the Church that they sanctioned it. Though, in a certain sense, I wonder if it wouldn’t best be described as a foreign custom. Good on Italian nationalists that they banned it.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    That’s interesting. I heard someone say that China was the only other society (other than European) to have a kind of indigenous effort to eliminate slavery. (Guess it was a kind of false start?)

     

    Yes, Imperial China was one of the first societies to eliminate slavery, and the first to develop full meritocracy during Song 宋 (11-13 CE). There was not even an under-caste like Burakumin.

    Song is perhaps like PLC, liberal institutions but weak military. Slavery, along with despotic institutions, was bought back by Mongol Manchu conquest.

    In effect PRC is still a Mongol Manchu dynasty (its not a coincidence that Communist Bloc was the former territory of Mongol Empire). You see that I defended Mao's foreign policy decisions as not entirely insane. But domestically he treated the Chinese people as his personal property; in his personal gambit with the Soviets and US.

    But who knows, maybe if not for him, China would be a Greater Taiwan as an American satellite. Yesterday was his birthday and held as a holiday in PRC.
  709. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader


    "That war began when the colonists broke some aspects of the agreement and then murdered Indian emissaries."

    I haven’t seen that claim anywhere about the origins of King Philip’s war, are you sure?
    I’d have to look it up in academic literature, but according to Wikipedia (yes, I know, I know, bad source) the prehistory of the war seems to have been a bit more complicated;
     
    I was wrong about the hanged Indians being emissaries - they were convicted of murdering the convert, who had been determined to have been a spy by the Indians.

    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists - they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    Wiki: "Metacom, however, forsook his father's alliance between the Wampanoags and the colonists after repeated violations by the colonists.[7] The colonists insisted that the 1671 peace agreement should include the surrender of Native guns; then three Wampanoags were hanged in Plymouth Colony in 1675 for the murder of another Wampanoag"

    https://www.britannica.com/event/King-Philips-War

    Britannica: "The war’s proximate cause was Plymouth Colony’s execution in June 1675 of three of Philip’s warriors. They had been tried and found guilty of murdering John Sassamon, a Harvard-educated “praying Indian” convert to Puritanism who had served as an interpreter and advisor to Philip but whom Philip had accused of spying for the colonists. His murder ignited a tinderbox of tensions between Indians and whites that had been smoldering for 55 years over competing land claims (including disputes over the grazing of colonial livestock on hunting and fishing grounds), interracial insensitivities, and English cultural encroachment on Native America."

    It seems that King Philip’s war with its mutual violence had a radicalizing effect and did much to destroy such initiatives.
     
    Yes. It contrasted with the French who diffused conflict by refusing to retaliate.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pequot-War

    In that war, the Pequot were the first to kill civilians (30 settlers total), but the English response of wiping them all out was rather disproportionate.

    The Mystic Massacre from that war:

    Mason* later declared that the attack against the Pequots was the act of a God who "laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to scorn", making the Pequot fort "as a fiery Oven", and "thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen."[23] Of the estimated 500 Pequots in the fort, seven were taken prisoner and another seven escaped to the woods.[24]"

    So the general pattern was Colonist encroachment, some murders by Indians, and then total unmerciful war and destruction of the Indians.

    it seems to me the wholesale condemnation of the New England Calvinists in contrast to Catholic colonialists is overdrawn.
     
    I agree that there were nuances and the efforts by some Puritans during a limited time were quite laudable. But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach. The differing approaches explains why New England has few Indians (there are some with very mixed descent who operate casinos) while Quebec has many (and I am not even including the ones in the far North). There is nothing in the history of New France like the scale of the mass killings during the Pequot War and King Phillips war by the Calvinist English. The mass killings, more than latitude or soil, explains why there are far fewer Indians in New England than in Quebec.


    * Interesting, from wiki, an example of white progressives trying to remove a statue against the wishes of the Indians whose people were the victims of the massacre:



    "In 2020 a statue of Captain John Mason at Palisado Green in Windsor, Connecticut (along with a similar statue of Christopher Columbus in the same area) was subject to calls for its removal following in the wake of national civil rights protests about Confederate statues. The statue, which was originally erected on the site of the Mystic Massacre in 1889, was moved to Windsor in 1996 because it was the location of Mason's home.[13] In September 2020, the town council voted 5-4 to remove statue and give it to Windsor Historical Society.[14] But Dr. Kevin McBride, Director of Research at the Pequot Museum noted that when it was removed from its original location of the Mystic Massacre in the 1990s, the Pequot's tribal chairman Skip Hayward was against its removal because "If you take it down," he said, "no one will remember what happened here."[14]"

    Replies: @German_reader

    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies? Did the Spanish let native communities keep weapons or respect their property claims? No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí (and I suppose much more could be cited by someone who knows more about Spanish America than I do). So I simply don’t see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs, where certainly there also were plenty of massacres). So again a rather more complicated story than just “Calvinists commit genocide against harmless natives for no good reason”.

    But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach.

    I don’t know if those efforts were ended completely (and it seems to me relations with different Indian groups varied quite a lot), would have to look that up (and I can’t comment on Quebec at all). But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed, and had never shown any interest at all in their conversion. imo that’s clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    I also find AP's Latin American argument puzzling. Hard to figure out what the real distinction is that he sees, when making the comparison.

    If he is mourning the loss of culture in US Amerinds on the Atlantic coast, well, I personally, find it quite dubious. These were people who made wigwams and had no metallurgy. To be brutally honest, about it, they never developed much of a culture. Or if they had one, it took an apocalyptic hit, from the intitial mass die-offs of Amerinds, before the English ever landed. Anyway, the major features of it were not terribly distinct from others in the interior, perhaps, leaving the distinction of languages. But languages are something that have been vanishing globally. Meanwhile, the Spanish had their reducciones. The forced relocation of over a million Amerinds, with the goal of deracinating them, and eliminating their distinct cultures, and subjugating them.

    If OTOH, he is considering deaths as instances of tragedy, there is no question that more deaths by orders of magnitude, happened in Spanish territories, due to the large population and size of armies.

    The only thing I can see left, is their loss of land, which I also find puzzling, as I think a non-woke individual (and I am not accusing him of being woke) would see that as a positive. (Who really would consider the US being Peru, as a positive?) Anyway, it was hardly something unique that English people did, and it is likely that someone else would have done it, had they not.
    ____
    If he is right about Quebec - less massacres - I don't see that is necessarily to do with sect, but in all probably is just geodeterminism. Quebec was thinly populated, hard to penetrate, had a reliance on fur trading, whoever ruled it would probably be more cautious about stirring the Amerinds up.

    Replies: @AP

    , @utu
    @German_reader


    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites
     
    No, utu does not say that. This is about indifference. The indifference of ethno-racialists like that in Sailer or that hanger-on songbird. Calvinists were Sailerites. Sailer feels superior to everybody including Germans, French, Italians, Spaniards.... Indifference is worse than hate. In the OT when Jews are commanded to genocide other groups there was no hate. To be hated you must be human first.

    Catholics by themselves in groups w/o priests and monks would act also on crude self interest just like Calvinists but they had to play it down as they could not seek justifications for such behaviors in the OT. The New World was not the Promised Land or the City on a Hill for them as it was for Calvinists.

    Furthermore Catholics did not have enough European women with them and this made them more open to the Natives and their culture while among Calvinists marrying native women amounted to treason. Men who did it were labeled as renegades who went native. This is a good litmus tests showing that Calvinists did not see Natives as fully humans. They were Sailerites before Darwin, Mendel, and Hitler.

    The crucial factor that made Catholic colonies and conquest different was the presence of priests and monks and the fact that in Catholic countries separation of church and state was real as it meant something entirely different from what Anglo-Americans think, i.e., that Church had its own policies, doctrines an goals that not always coincided with the interest of the state while for Calvinists and Protestants in general there must be no mis-alignment between the state and religion. Protestants are unable to tolerate slightest contradictions so in the end they either created a quasi- totalitarian systems or a meaningless religion that dissolves itself.

    Church had decided that Savages are unequivocally humans who possess souls and thus serious efforts and attempts must be made to save their souls from the eternal damnation. Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.

    Soul-saving was a Christian duty. The officers of Church like priest and monks exerted strong moderating influence on behavior of lay settlers. The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.

    The difference between Calvinists and Catholics was similarly to difference between Nazis and Bolsheviks. Both Bolsheviks and Catholics wanted to conquer the world for their idea believing that it would benefit the conquered people while Calvinists and German Nazis wanted to conquer the land for their Lebensraum. This is the chief reason why with the full knowledge of the enormity of Bolshevik crimes we to do place them I the same circle of hell we placed German Nazis. German Nazis including Hitler just like the latter day Zionists frequently used the conquest of Northern America and elimination of the Native people as the exemplar and justification for their action. They did not have Cortez or Pizarro or French Jesuts or Spanish Dominicans in mind but rather of John Winthrop.

    BTW: I am surprised to see you arguing with AP against what is self-evident. Obviously one can overstate the case on behalf of Catholics and CRC but I do not think that AP is guilty of it as his argument are measured and reasonable. Your irrational obstinacy is part of your personality trait. You could have written much better what I have here because you know and agree with my position. Stop arguing in bad faith. Just be happy that all the sovoks abandoned the ship after Karlin departure and so you do not have to suffer their pathological nationalism that chased you away from the UR in the first place.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    , @AP
    @German_reader


    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies?
     
    I could be wrong but it seems that those Indians weren't part of the Colonies but were sovereign, thus it was a different category. The war was precipitated by the Colonists infringing on sovereign Indian lands, and resulted in genocide of the Indians by the Calvinists.

    However don't forget that the Jesuits armed and taught warfare to the Indians in Paraguay to help them to defend themselves against Portuguese slavers.

    No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí
     
    Those people were mostly serfs already; I'm not sure their lives became much worse (in Mexico and Central America, they weren't getting harvested for human sacrifice anymore). While abuses undoubtedly occurred, the natives were also baptized and educated, eventually becoming something like Spanish peasants. In New England they were just disappeared.

    So I simply don’t see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.
     
    Again, compare missions with their teaching the natives and productions of great art, with mass killing and removal.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs
     
    But the native allies were shocked and horrified by the scale of the mass killing by the Calvinists:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pequot_War#The_Mystic_massacre

    "The Narragansetts and Mohegans with Mason and Underhill's colonial militia were horrified by the actions and "manner of the Englishmen's fight… because it is too furious, and slays too many men."[25][26] ."

    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed
     
    Not always but more often than not, and that's what generally happened. It's why there are 3 times more Natives in the areas where the French went, that are right next door to where the Calvinists settled.

    imo that’s clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.
     
    It is indeed an over-simplification. That doesn't mean it isn't generally correct.

    Replies: @German_reader

  710. @songbird
    @silviosilver

    Any day now, Indians will get a direct flight connection to the US, via Anchorage.

    Billy Mitchell used to say that Anchorage was the key to dominating the world. Lord help us, if they take it.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but direct flights from India to NYC and other cities have been around for more than a decade.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Vishnugupta

    LOL. Guess I was under the false impression that those were stopovers in Arab countries.

    Oh well, there go both coasts! Looks like it will be a retreat into the deep interior, then.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  711. @Vishnugupta
    @songbird

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but direct flights from India to NYC and other cities have been around for more than a decade.

    Replies: @songbird

    LOL. Guess I was under the false impression that those were stopovers in Arab countries.

    Oh well, there go both coasts! Looks like it will be a retreat into the deep interior, then.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    If you are under the impression of "air link = immigration", you should wish the air transport industry to collapse, which is likely. Or hope that the WEF imposes caste-based movement restrictions.

    Replies: @songbird

  712. @AP
    @Yellowface Anon

    Dutch is about as distinct from German as Portuguese is from Spanish. Are the regional languages in Italy as distinct from each other as Portuguese is from Spanish?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    How distant is Neapolitan from Venetian? (This is rhetorical)

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Yellowface Anon

    I would say--

    High German : Viennese, Bavarian or Swabian
    ::
    Standard Mandarin : Sichuan Mandarin (i.e. mostly understandable)

    High German : Dutch, Flemish, Swiss German
    ::
    Standard Mandarin : Wu or Xiang (very different but not as far as Cantonese)

    Dutch also doesn't have the dative and genitive cases in German so grammatically simpler.

    *Standard Mandarin is in German Hochchinesisch "High Chinese". Probably because there can be said to be an accent-free version of Mandarin or German (but not English which is much more polycentric).

  713. @songbird
    @Vishnugupta

    LOL. Guess I was under the false impression that those were stopovers in Arab countries.

    Oh well, there go both coasts! Looks like it will be a retreat into the deep interior, then.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    If you are under the impression of “air link = immigration”, you should wish the air transport industry to collapse, which is likely. Or hope that the WEF imposes caste-based movement restrictions.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    Once read some memoirs by a former Cunard captain named James Bisset. I really quite liked the one called Tramps & Ladies, where he talks about starting his career on steampships, when they were fairly new.

    The one after that, I don't recommend, but in an abstract way (not for entertainment), it was still really fascinating. It describes his time as a captain of troop transports. When passenger lines were converted over for the war effort. Lot of figures in it, which make it a kind of dry read. But, there's one thing that kind of stands out to me - in his quoting them, he is showing his evident amazement at what a marvel of technology that steamships were when it came to moving people.

    And I think somewhere else, he talks about speed, and how the latest, fastest, biggest ships were always the London to NYC line, but when they replaced them, they sent them to the Med, or other locations.

    You can really kind of see the groundwork for the invasion of the West, or for how the first beachheads formed. Though, I guess one gets a similar vibe, when listening to the speeches of early aviators.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  714. @silviosilver
    @Dmitry


    Here Jesus is perhaps almost directly mappable to the refugee topic. In terms, of Jesus saying things like you should give your money to the poor – this can probably interpreted by both capitalists and socialists to support them in different ways. But when he says that your neighbor is not your tribemember, and to help them – this is difficult to re-interpret.
     
    I don't see how you draw this conclusion at all.

    If my neighbor is defined as "whoever does me a kindness," then why would that require me to accept a refugee (especially one of another race), whose presence in my country, far from doing me any sort of kindness, only burdens me?

    If a "refugee" (99% bogus) tries to break into my country and I catch him, I should have a right to kill him; by not killing him, I am doing him the kindness. And the best way he can "love me as his neighbor" in return for that kindness is to promise to stay out of my country (and to keep his promise).

    Also, just because Jesus said to love your neighbor (as he defined it) as yourself, it doesn't mean we can't also love our "normal" neighbors (as we define them) as well. That should be obvious. In the passage about "what is the law" that you are referring to, Jesus doesn't explicitly provide the instruction to love our parents or our children, but we can hardly infer from that omission that he doesn't want us to love our parents or children, so neither should we infer that we shouldn't love our own ethnic neighbors (if we want to).

    See, Dmitry, what was so hard about that?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    aid to love your neighbor (as he defined it) as

    Love your neighbor is Leviticus 19:18
    (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2019%3A18&version=NIV )

    But it implies that the neighbor are the people in your tribe (“against anyone among your people”).

    This is why Jesus talks about the “Parable of the Good Samaritan”.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010%3A25-37&version=NIV

    The message of this is to refute the “your people” in the Leviticus 19:18 when refering to loving your neighbor. This is why the traveler is not helped by the other Jews (including priests and Levites). But the non-Jew is helping the Jew.

    In this passage, Jesus is saying to be like the Samaritan. I.e. to love your neighbor, does not refer to only loving people from within your tribe. Jesus is saying you should love people regardless of whether their religious/tribe is the same as our own.

    I recommend to read the two texts together. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010%3A25-37&version=NIV

    I’m not saying that it is such a good idea to apply religion to politics in a non-careful way, as you don’t apply religious texts to bridge safety engineering or flight safety. Would you fly on a plane, where the flight safety engineers were following instructions from biblical texts.

    We can apply religious ethics to our personal life and learn from these ethical teaching. But societies’ applying religion to political life, is a more problematic issue, as the politics is such a complex system.

    But the application of Jesus’ instructions to these topics is consistent with the Catholic church teaching on this topic.

  715. Always thought that TV, (maybe color TV?) was what caused runaway color signaling. But there is something that the theory should be checked against: government and business pamphlets. Used to be quite a lot, before the internet. And they had a lot of depictions of people in them.

    I’ve seen some from the ’50s, and there wasn’t a black in them, which I think is pretty reasonable, when you consider the demographics of the cities back then, and what they were meant for, reaching a literate, responsible audience.

    I think it is at least narrowly possible that this changed sometime during Kennedy (wanted a black astronaut, but was vetoed by more sensible military officers) or Johnson (wanted “equal outcomes”) and that TV followed suit, rather than led.

    Though, I was reading that Capra interview that Priss Factor linked to, and I thought it was pretty interesting what he said about making a movie, in the early ’30s:

    I wanted to win one of those Academy Awards for directing. It became an obsession; all ambitious people, all nutty people think that way. I’d seen how the Academy voted—they voted for art; they didn’t vote for comedy. They didn’t vote for this kind of junk I’m making. So I thought. What the hell. I’ll give them art. And I took on The Bitter Tea of General Yen, which is a story about miscegenation between a Chinese warlord and an American missionary. But I fell in love with the story, too. And I think I made a very fine picture out of it. I loved the film myself. It had a quality of honesty between these people.

    This warlord said all the things that needed to be said about miscegenation, about racism. And I felt that this woman had depth enough to understand. She was so bigoted [at first]. And this reformation of this character from a bigot to one who could love anybody—why, this was an honest story to me.

    But no Academy Award. As a matter of fact, it was one of the few pictures that lost money for Columbia, because it was barred from the English empire. And the English empire then was an empire. It meant Australia, Canada, Africa. And if you lost that British market, that was almost half of our market. So, when that lost money, that is when I took on Lady for a Day.

    BTW, Lady for a Day has a scene with fashion-knowledgeable homosexuals. I thought it was interesting because Capra is considered to be one of the most conservative directors ever, and he was something of an auteur, but still apparently found it necessary to cater to Hollywood culture, before Catholics led an effort to crack down on this sort of thing.

  716. @LatW
    @Thulean Friend

    Who would be the "poor and downtrodden" here? Grown men who use "donker" (trafficker) services and deliberately break foreign countries' laws?

    What happened on the Polish border this year was tragic, but it needed to be done in order to stop the creation of a migration route in the Baltic region. It is true that some migrants suffer heavily in Belarus. People should be treated with dignity, but people should also be held responsible for their deliberate actions.

    Illegal migration is a crime.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Well I’m a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it’s not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants’ situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    “68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey.” https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump’s rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    * I’m not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry


    Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.
     
    I endorse this idea. When I have brought it up to friends and acquaintances the consensus is I was being silly. Pretty close to unanimous. I think we could have more than one. A Rio Grande sanctuary, a Siberian sanctuary, a New Guinea sanctuary.

    An Israel sanctuary. Like 80 miles wide from the Jordan River to the sea and including all of Jerusalem and suburbs.
    , @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry

    A few weeks ago, a boat capsized on the coast of Malaysia killing at least 18 migrants. They were headed from Indonesia.

    This blog tends to be very eurocentric, but this issue affects the 2nd and 3rd world just as much, if not more so (just ask your average Turk about the refugee issue in her country). Turkey may be a transit country but Malaysia increasingly is not. It's nice enough for moslem refugees to wanting to go to.

    If one path is closed, another is opened. Just creating a new country out of thin air won't cut it either, because the fundamental root of this issue is massive and increasing wealth inequality. As I wrote a few days ago, most of the "emerging markets" are in fact submerging outside of ASEAN and to some extent India. Coupled with relatively rapid population growth there can only be one outcome: more people will try their luck abroad, and who can blame them?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @sher singh

    , @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Whereas to complain that individual people who gamble by going on it is to complain against human
     
    Sorry, I need to elaborate. Of course, the journey is crazy difficult and heartbreaking. I didn't mean to ignore the context, obviously the trafficking chains are a tough nut to crack. And of course there are protocols for genuine real refugees. But we are objecting to the lumping together of the real ones and just seekers of better pastures so to speak. Of course, terrible things can happen and people end up cheated, used. Etc. This btw happens with Slavs, too, but they don't get the publicity.

    I will insist that grown men take responsibility for their actions. They're treated like babies by the liberals. They should in fact be helping others in their own communities. As to human nature as you say, yes, the human nature is to seek better pastures, the problem here is the lack of enforcement. We can't get everything we want, there are boundaries.

    The problem is not that they're gambling as individuals but their entitlement. As in, screw your pathetic country, I just need to pass through here on my way to Germany. And when we rightfully say No, they create physical damage. And then some liberal Swede comes and uses Christmas time when people's hearts are open to virtue signal and lord it over Poland and Lithuania. Please.

    Anyway, I don't want to be cruel during this time.
    Passing you a cup of glintwein...

    But remember that Joseph didn't take his Wife on some dangerous journey, he took Her to his ancestral home to his family. But of course if you ask if kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees but they still encounter life's difficulties. Some got thrown into prison in Belarus. Some grace should be shown without allowing their liberal defenders to dance on our heads.

    And for you as a legal immigrant, given what a pain it is to do go through all the procedures it must be annoying. You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you're Slavic, you are a part of our larger family. The objections for you migrating within the wider Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol, jk).



    To answer about Morgenshtern. He was ok with going with the program and being neutral, he would never talk smack against the rulers like Nemtsov did. But you see... that wasn't enough. What he didn't want is to bend over and to openly supplicate. No artist or no free human being wants to.

    As to the ruling class trying to maintain stability, it's totally understandable. Nobody wants to give up their power position and I also feel that they are afraid of the so called "smuty" (chaos, political and social disorientation, value vacuum). You know how they keep saying " You want it to be like in Ukraine?".

    Hence, the clinging to "values" (the so called skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well, it's not the 90s anymore. But it might be that the ruling power doesn't want to experiment with that especially given all the global and regional instability.

    You know, I had not heard of this Khasbik character before. I was, like, whose child is it in the video? But it turns out he's a real Dag Chad. Lol. Why did you say he's Kadyrov's nemesis, Kadyrov gifted him a Mercedes, is it because Khasbik is popular? I'm noticing all these popular peeps with millions of TikTok views are getting presents. In the video, you can see this SUV or some kind of an armored vehicle that this rich Uzbeki guy gifted to Morgenshtern. What's up with that? Is it because he wants to be his friend or is it just some kind of pokazuha? Funny stuff. I guess Burzhik is the right hangout for these types. Morgenshtern is apparently in Palm Jumeirah, the place with the cool beach condos.

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    , @songbird
    @Dmitry


    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.
     
    I agree, except with the last part.

    IMO, it could be done for a reasonable dollar cost. (less than we are spending now) But, it would take cost-optimizing incentives, moving resources, and seeking the greatest efficiencies, which would mean a lot of things totally unpalatable to progressives. More succinctly one could say that it is too costly for the progressive mindset because it would be a complete surrender on racial egalitarianism. A functional demonstration would demolish the idea that people are moving to experience political freedom, and not simply for material gain, which, let's face it, would be a real hit on the vanity of liberals.
    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.
     
    Do you really believe that events that occurred 500 years ago are the cause of the political and economic dysfunction of the whole of Latin America today? What would be the exact causal mechanism of such a long-lasting phenomenon?

    I wish we Basques had not been defeated at Amaiur and had never been a part of the Spanish imperial projects but I respect the courage of the Spanish conquistadors nonetheless and would not blame them for what totally different people half a millennium later are capable or incapable of doing with their countries.

    If you mean to say that territories conquered by Spain become dysfunctional, then Latin American countries would be about as dysfunctional as Andalusia or the Canary Islands. Not that these Spanish regions are comparable to the most advanced economies at all but you don't see Andalusians and Canarians risking their lives to emigrate. In fact, what you see is thousands and thousands of 3rd World migrants risking their lives to arrive to Andalusia and the Canary Islands instead.

    The idea of institutions and customs inherited from Spain being the cause of the continent-wide catastrophic situation is a fairy tale many Latin Americans like to tell themselves but does not look very serious. Latin American countries have enjoyed over two centuries of independent life to rid themselves of any pernicious influence from Spain, which was the reason why they sought independence to begin with, but it didn't work any well. And not for lack of trying. Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama. But they are unable to lift themselves from mediocrity and dysfunction.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  717. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    If you are under the impression of "air link = immigration", you should wish the air transport industry to collapse, which is likely. Or hope that the WEF imposes caste-based movement restrictions.

    Replies: @songbird

    Once read some memoirs by a former Cunard captain named James Bisset. I really quite liked the one called Tramps & Ladies, where he talks about starting his career on steampships, when they were fairly new.

    The one after that, I don’t recommend, but in an abstract way (not for entertainment), it was still really fascinating. It describes his time as a captain of troop transports. When passenger lines were converted over for the war effort. Lot of figures in it, which make it a kind of dry read. But, there’s one thing that kind of stands out to me – in his quoting them, he is showing his evident amazement at what a marvel of technology that steamships were when it came to moving people.

    And I think somewhere else, he talks about speed, and how the latest, fastest, biggest ships were always the London to NYC line, but when they replaced them, they sent them to the Med, or other locations.

    You can really kind of see the groundwork for the invasion of the West, or for how the first beachheads formed. Though, I guess one gets a similar vibe, when listening to the speeches of early aviators.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I'll definitely keep the name of James Biset and his accounts of sailing in mind as I traverse the world off bookstores and second hand emporiums of earthly delights. With your interest in boats and sea travel, I'm sure that you'd find Harry A Franck's first travel book "A Vagabond Journey Around the World: A Narrative of Personal Experience" to be something of your liking and right up your alley. It's a rough and tumble account of a nascent travel writers first outing into the outside world. A young English teacher decides to take a gamble and prove to his friends that he could travel around the world on less than a shoestring budget ($104 to be exact that was used primarily to fund his photographic endeavors) exhibiting verve and cunning all along the path! It's really an incredible voyage that extends rom the Canadian seaboard where he leaves on a cattle boat and travels through a lot of Europe mostly by foot, settling here and there taking on odd jobs to help put food on his ever dwindling table. The rest of the trip includes bouts in the Middle East including Egypt, then to India and further to the Far East including Japan. The last chapter including his trip home, goes into some incredible depth about what it was to truly like to experience sea travel during that timeframe (1905-1906). The book was a real eye opener for me, showing how the vagabond of the past could expect to get some help in the form of free meals, money and travel tickets from the local US consulate, the YMCA and other international charity organizations.

    A book that quakes with a realism of that period of time, what many reviewers of this book have referred to it as a veritable "time machine" taking the reader back in time. The original paperbak printing of this book took place in 1910 and I own what I think is a hardbound edition printed in 1936. I see that this book merited a very prestigious republishing in 2018 (Scholars Edition) bcause as the publisher states:


    "This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work...This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public.
     
    https://pictures.abebooks.com/inventory/md/md21778628253.jpg

    Highly recommended!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  718. @Yellowface Anon
    @Dmitry

    I read stories of 60s families in HK having excellent communal life despite living in awful Social Housing designs. It was a carryover of an ordered chaos from the Chinese streetscape, what you would imagine to happen in Kowloon Wall City but cleaner. It took a turn for the worse when the hyperindividualist middle-class lifestyle was imported in the 80s along with all the industry being moved to Mainland China.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    This sadness for loss of communal life that had been carried from the villages, is one of the main themes of Soviet popular culture of the 1970s.

    By the 1970s, in the popul culture there a nostalgia of the time that the communal life of the villages had carried to the cities in the first generation of internal immigrants, which was re-enforced by the barracks and the communal apartments of the earlier decades of the Soviet housing policy.

    The village life was able to internally immigrate to the corridors of the buildings, if only in the first generation of internal immigrants.

    You can see 1970s popular culture was viewing as picturesque 1950s corridor life already e.g. 46:00 in the video (this video is a Soviet pop film of the late 1970s).

    stories of 60s families in HK having excellent communal life despite living in awful Social Housing

    Do you watch the Japanese films of Ozu? This is one of the topics he is often portraying in the postwar films, going to this theme in different ways in the different films.

  719. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Well I'm a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it's not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants' situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    "68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey." https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump's rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    -
    * I'm not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @songbird, @Mikel

    Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    I endorse this idea. When I have brought it up to friends and acquaintances the consensus is I was being silly. Pretty close to unanimous. I think we could have more than one. A Rio Grande sanctuary, a Siberian sanctuary, a New Guinea sanctuary.

    An Israel sanctuary. Like 80 miles wide from the Jordan River to the sea and including all of Jerusalem and suburbs.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  720. @German_reader
    @AP


    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.
     
    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies? Did the Spanish let native communities keep weapons or respect their property claims? No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí (and I suppose much more could be cited by someone who knows more about Spanish America than I do). So I simply don't see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:
     
    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs, where certainly there also were plenty of massacres). So again a rather more complicated story than just "Calvinists commit genocide against harmless natives for no good reason".

    But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach.
     
    I don't know if those efforts were ended completely (and it seems to me relations with different Indian groups varied quite a lot), would have to look that up (and I can't comment on Quebec at all). But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed, and had never shown any interest at all in their conversion. imo that's clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.

    Replies: @songbird, @utu, @AP

    I also find AP’s Latin American argument puzzling. Hard to figure out what the real distinction is that he sees, when making the comparison.

    If he is mourning the loss of culture in US Amerinds on the Atlantic coast, well, I personally, find it quite dubious. These were people who made wigwams and had no metallurgy. To be brutally honest, about it, they never developed much of a culture. Or if they had one, it took an apocalyptic hit, from the intitial mass die-offs of Amerinds, before the English ever landed. Anyway, the major features of it were not terribly distinct from others in the interior, perhaps, leaving the distinction of languages. But languages are something that have been vanishing globally. Meanwhile, the Spanish had their reducciones. The forced relocation of over a million Amerinds, with the goal of deracinating them, and eliminating their distinct cultures, and subjugating them.

    [MORE]

    If OTOH, he is considering deaths as instances of tragedy, there is no question that more deaths by orders of magnitude, happened in Spanish territories, due to the large population and size of armies.

    The only thing I can see left, is their loss of land, which I also find puzzling, as I think a non-woke individual (and I am not accusing him of being woke) would see that as a positive. (Who really would consider the US being Peru, as a positive?) Anyway, it was hardly something unique that English people did, and it is likely that someone else would have done it, had they not.
    ____
    If he is right about Quebec – less massacres – I don’t see that is necessarily to do with sect, but in all probably is just geodeterminism. Quebec was thinly populated, hard to penetrate, had a reliance on fur trading, whoever ruled it would probably be more cautious about stirring the Amerinds up.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    If he is mourning the loss of culture in US Amerinds on the Atlantic coast

     

    I was just pointing out that mass murder was wrong and compared the mass murder unfavorably to teaching and improving the people, and letting them live, as was done on Spanish missions and in New France. There were occasions when the Calvinists behaved like Jesuits (praying towns) but sadly these efforts were abandoned in favor of slaughter. When Catholic missionaries were murdered they were hailed as martyrs and efforts to educate and improve the natives continued. When Calvinists were murdered entire tribes were exterminated.

    Quebec was thinly populated, hard to penetrate, had a reliance on fur trading
     
    By 1763 the population of Quebec was around 70,000. In 1640, around the time of the massacres during the Pequot War, New England only had 14,000 English settlers. During the time of King Phillips War in 1680 there were 68,000 New Englanders (in 1700 there were 16,000 French settlers). Although there were fewer English in 1640 than French in 1700 the English massacres the Natives, the French did not massacre the natives despite a mass killing of French settlers by Natives in 1689:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    "In response to the attack, the French mobilized 200 soldiers under the command of Daniel d'Auger de Subercase, along with 100 armed civilians and some soldiers from nearby Forts Rémy, Rolland, and La Présentation to march against the Iroquois.[19] They defended some of the fleeing colonists from their Mohawk pursuers, but just prior to reaching Lachine, the armed forces were recalled to Fort Rolland by the order of Governor Denonville, who was trying to pacify the local Iroquois inhabitants.[20] He had 700 soldiers at his disposal within the Montreal barracks and might have overtaken the Iroquois forces but decided to follow a diplomatic route."


    So you probably can't blame the population size for lack of massacres.

    Replies: @songbird

  721. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Well I'm a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it's not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants' situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    "68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey." https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump's rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    -
    * I'm not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @songbird, @Mikel

    A few weeks ago, a boat capsized on the coast of Malaysia killing at least 18 migrants. They were headed from Indonesia.

    This blog tends to be very eurocentric, but this issue affects the 2nd and 3rd world just as much, if not more so (just ask your average Turk about the refugee issue in her country). Turkey may be a transit country but Malaysia increasingly is not. It’s nice enough for moslem refugees to wanting to go to.

    If one path is closed, another is opened. Just creating a new country out of thin air won’t cut it either, because the fundamental root of this issue is massive and increasing wealth inequality. As I wrote a few days ago, most of the “emerging markets” are in fact submerging outside of ASEAN and to some extent India. Coupled with relatively rapid population growth there can only be one outcome: more people will try their luck abroad, and who can blame them?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Thulean Friend

    Isn't there a land route Indonesia -> Malaysia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borneo

    , @sher singh
    @Thulean Friend

    You're a Malesh (melech), beef eater, right? What're your thoughts on this??

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/924021814395535421/924776515839881226/unknown.png

    https://twitter.com/PolytheismToday/status/1469216828597567489?s=20

    I assume you're a gaytheist homosexual who opposes the Kirpan as well??

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781981619073318943/924784700097196042/PXL_20211225_053453082.jpg

  722. I’m staying in London right now, visiting relatives. A few impressions.

    – It is considerably less clean than Stockholm, even allowing for size differences. I stay in a residential area which has many expensive cars and houses, but the attention to detail that I’d find even in fairly ordinary Swedish neighborhoods is strikingly missing.

    – The stereotype of the polite Englishman is still true to some extent. Swedes are non-confrontational, but I still notice a slight improvement in public manners. Being called “love” by women and “mate” by men on a casual basis took some time to adjust to.

    – Food is insanely cheaper. It’s literally half the cost. There is also much greater amounts of food from across the world. Sweden is much more restrictive; we barely even let Danish meat into our country on fears of salmonella and similar issues. Anglos clearly have a more liberal outlook to food imports, as in other things in life.

    – Asians are everywhere, at least downtown. I see so many WM/AF couples it’s pretty hilarious. Why go to East Asia when you can go to London? I see them in Stockholm too, but it’s on a different scale here.

    – Housing prices are insane given the cramped areas people live in. Even proper “houses” are dwarves by Swedish standards. Of course, London is much more coveted by global elites so there are understandable reasons for this.

    – The infrastructure for cyclists is a complete joke. There are almost no seperate bikelanes like in Stockholm and I see very few cyclists whatsoever. I don’t blame them, I wouldn’t want to share my space with cars either.

    – Parks are quite pleasant, but ultimately too heavy on grass. I miss conifers and proper forests like back home. I grew up not far from Blackeberg and we have a real forest there. Still within Stockholm municipality.

    Overall, I’m quite happy I live in Sweden and not in the UK. One major advantage London has is that it definitely feels more cosmopolitan, whereas Stockholm is obviously more provincial. But QoL in Stockholm is unquestionably greater. I will go to Berlin hopefully next year as I have not been in a while and then round up with Paris to do a full comparison. I am particularly interested in Paris given Anne Hidalgo’s radical work to make it far less car-centric, which can hopefully work as an inspiration for many other cities.

    • Thanks: sher singh
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Thulean Friend

    Have you heard anybody in London talk about the new Abba show?

    , @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    proper “houses”
     
    But houses in bourgeois areas of London, are very large inside, as constructed mainly in the 19th century with conditions of extreme wealth. This was when in the 19th century, the bourgeoisie would hire servants often living inside their houses. (Of course, in workers' areas, of London they were building smaller.)

    I would say the urban planning and architecture of those houses, is possibly the most attractive of any in the world. There is a balance of private and public space in those areas which seems almost perfect.


    this issue affects the 2nd and 3rd world just as much, if not more so (just ask your average Turk
     
    Yes this is very true. Russia absorbs most postsoviet immigrants.

    If you look in Africa, for example, Egypt has up to 4 million immigrants from Sudan.

    -

    However, my point was about the situation of Mexico as a transit country. This is including such things as the train of immigrants that goes across Mexico, to try to enter the USA.

    The majority of immigrants on this path experience violence. 1/3 of the women are raped. Much of the immigration is controlled by mafia.

    There are stories where hundreds of these immigrants are beheaded by narcotics cartels.

    Two weeks ago, 54 immigrants from Guatemala were killed in a train catastrophe. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/10/witnesses-recount-horrors-mexico-crash-that-killed-dozens-of-migrants

    So here is a situation that needs to be resolved in Mexico as a transit country, and in Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala.

    Trump's rhetoric about "Mexico is going to pay for a wall", could have alienated the Mexican elite.

    But it's a problem in Mexico, that needs to be solved with the Mexican elites. If USA wants to improve this situation, one of the areas (aside from legalizing certain drugs to reduce the blackmarket which feeds cartels) to improve borders inside Mexico itself.

    The wall will need to begin at Guatemala.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzEUHF1KPY8

  723. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Well I'm a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it's not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants' situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    "68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey." https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump's rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    -
    * I'm not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @songbird, @Mikel

    Whereas to complain that individual people who gamble by going on it is to complain against human

    Sorry, I need to elaborate. Of course, the journey is crazy difficult and heartbreaking. I didn’t mean to ignore the context, obviously the trafficking chains are a tough nut to crack. And of course there are protocols for genuine real refugees. But we are objecting to the lumping together of the real ones and just seekers of better pastures so to speak. Of course, terrible things can happen and people end up cheated, used. Etc. This btw happens with Slavs, too, but they don’t get the publicity.

    I will insist that grown men take responsibility for their actions. They’re treated like babies by the liberals. They should in fact be helping others in their own communities. As to human nature as you say, yes, the human nature is to seek better pastures, the problem here is the lack of enforcement. We can’t get everything we want, there are boundaries.

    The problem is not that they’re gambling as individuals but their entitlement. As in, screw your pathetic country, I just need to pass through here on my way to Germany. And when we rightfully say No, they create physical damage. And then some liberal Swede comes and uses Christmas time when people’s hearts are open to virtue signal and lord it over Poland and Lithuania. Please.

    Anyway, I don’t want to be cruel during this time.
    Passing you a cup of glintwein…

    But remember that Joseph didn’t take his Wife on some dangerous journey, he took Her to his ancestral home to his family. But of course if you ask if kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees but they still encounter life’s difficulties. Some got thrown into prison in Belarus. Some grace should be shown without allowing their liberal defenders to dance on our heads.

    And for you as a legal immigrant, given what a pain it is to do go through all the procedures it must be annoying. You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you’re Slavic, you are a part of our larger family. The objections for you migrating within the wider Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol, jk).

    [MORE]

    To answer about Morgenshtern. He was ok with going with the program and being neutral, he would never talk smack against the rulers like Nemtsov did. But you see… that wasn’t enough. What he didn’t want is to bend over and to openly supplicate. No artist or no free human being wants to.

    As to the ruling class trying to maintain stability, it’s totally understandable. Nobody wants to give up their power position and I also feel that they are afraid of the so called “smuty” (chaos, political and social disorientation, value vacuum). You know how they keep saying ” You want it to be like in Ukraine?”.

    Hence, the clinging to “values” (the so called skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well, it’s not the 90s anymore. But it might be that the ruling power doesn’t want to experiment with that especially given all the global and regional instability.

    You know, I had not heard of this Khasbik character before. I was, like, whose child is it in the video? But it turns out he’s a real Dag Chad. Lol. Why did you say he’s Kadyrov’s nemesis, Kadyrov gifted him a Mercedes, is it because Khasbik is popular? I’m noticing all these popular peeps with millions of TikTok views are getting presents. In the video, you can see this SUV or some kind of an armored vehicle that this rich Uzbeki guy gifted to Morgenshtern. What’s up with that? Is it because he wants to be his friend or is it just some kind of pokazuha? Funny stuff. I guess Burzhik is the right hangout for these types. Morgenshtern is apparently in Palm Jumeirah, the place with the cool beach condos.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW

    Anyway, just to clarify, without getting too verbose, on why I appeal to the strong and capable migrants' individual responsibility and agency. Yes, I guess it's ok to gamble by hiking up to a border or going on a trip in the ocean in a rubber boat with a newborn. But when you fail, please, do not blame others. Do not call them monsters for observing their own rules. During the border crisis the Russian media was calling Poles and Lithuanians monsters. Western liberals have similar tendencies. They never questioned the migrants' decisions to bring pregnant women, elderly and children on such dangerous journeys to begin with.

    They're blaming us for their own failures. That's what I'm objecting to, not that some of them try and gamble with their lives.

    , @Dmitry
    @LatW


    hasbik
     
    Hasbik is Kadyrov's protege, not his nemesis. But Morgenshtern's video is with Abduroziq, who is Hasbik's nemesis.

    Kadyrov wanted to arrange Hasbik to fight with Abduroziq, but it looks their fight might go UFC.

    Anyway don't you feel perhaps we can say "subtle support" for your theory, when Morgenshtern releases his first video with Abduroziq in this context?


    skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well,

     

    Yes of course, there is no problem for Russians. But there is a problem there for the rulers. And we know how the balance of power is in the postsoviet space between rulers and subjects, or lack of it.

    kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees

     

    Distinguishing refugees and economic immigrants should be a first priority. And this partly already completed by the first safe country principle.

    Still even excluding refugees, and looking at economic immigrants - they are mostly poor people, from almost uninhabitable countries.

    This doesn't mean they should be accepted from the developed country, but I don't think I can say their decision is necessarily a wrong decision from their point of view.

    If I was a non-skilled worker from Sudan, or a Kurd in Syria, or even a doctor in Lebanon, I would be trying any such ways to become the favorite neighbor of German Reader, and maybe even could be desperate enough to be scammed by Lukashenko for this illegal quest.

    Again, it's nothing about immigration policy. Just I'm saying a more trivial point, that they seemed often "reasonable" to me. When Vietnamese immigrants are dying from suffocation to go to England ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_lorry_deaths ), this is not sensible, but at the same time you can see how you would ignore these risks.


    Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol,
     
    Thanks, I'd like to be called that. However, you know by Western standards, my political views would be mostly considered centre-right-wing at best. Which I would prefer not to be called, but this is where my opinions would be categorized.

    That's not to say the old meaning of the word "liberal". In the 19th century, liberalism had been a consistent and well developed political philosophy, with intelligent supporters. But since the middle 20th century, word has started to refer to people's position in a relative political spectrum, and can include some of the less sensible views of today.


    You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you’re Slavic, you are a part of our larger family.
     
    That would be wonderful. I would love you as Minister of Immigration of a G7 country, or perhaps leader Switzerland or Monaco.

    But in reality this if you are easy for slavs, who are EU citizens like Poles or Czechs. For Russians Belarusians, Ukrainians, it's more like we are being in the same position as Argentinians, Brazilians, Turks, or Mexicans, if we are lucky.

    We are definitely usually treated better than people from the third world countries, e.g. with Filipino or Nigerian passports, those people who can be interrogated in the airport. But you are still paying exploitatively high fees for anything like coronavirus tests and visa applications, and there is a possibility of receiving visa rejections.

    That said, I can't feel cheated, as I'm in many ways more privileged than the vast majority of legal immigrants, and even more privileged than native citizens of many first world countries. I'm not in any positions to complain about the fees. I also feel like last time is a Skripal case, they didn't seem to change policies in ways which some people worried.

    Replies: @LatW

  724. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry

    A few weeks ago, a boat capsized on the coast of Malaysia killing at least 18 migrants. They were headed from Indonesia.

    This blog tends to be very eurocentric, but this issue affects the 2nd and 3rd world just as much, if not more so (just ask your average Turk about the refugee issue in her country). Turkey may be a transit country but Malaysia increasingly is not. It's nice enough for moslem refugees to wanting to go to.

    If one path is closed, another is opened. Just creating a new country out of thin air won't cut it either, because the fundamental root of this issue is massive and increasing wealth inequality. As I wrote a few days ago, most of the "emerging markets" are in fact submerging outside of ASEAN and to some extent India. Coupled with relatively rapid population growth there can only be one outcome: more people will try their luck abroad, and who can blame them?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @sher singh

    Isn’t there a land route Indonesia -> Malaysia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borneo

  725. @Thulean Friend
    I'm staying in London right now, visiting relatives. A few impressions.

    - It is considerably less clean than Stockholm, even allowing for size differences. I stay in a residential area which has many expensive cars and houses, but the attention to detail that I'd find even in fairly ordinary Swedish neighborhoods is strikingly missing.

    - The stereotype of the polite Englishman is still true to some extent. Swedes are non-confrontational, but I still notice a slight improvement in public manners. Being called "love" by women and "mate" by men on a casual basis took some time to adjust to.

    - Food is insanely cheaper. It's literally half the cost. There is also much greater amounts of food from across the world. Sweden is much more restrictive; we barely even let Danish meat into our country on fears of salmonella and similar issues. Anglos clearly have a more liberal outlook to food imports, as in other things in life.

    - Asians are everywhere, at least downtown. I see so many WM/AF couples it's pretty hilarious. Why go to East Asia when you can go to London? I see them in Stockholm too, but it's on a different scale here.

    - Housing prices are insane given the cramped areas people live in. Even proper "houses" are dwarves by Swedish standards. Of course, London is much more coveted by global elites so there are understandable reasons for this.

    - The infrastructure for cyclists is a complete joke. There are almost no seperate bikelanes like in Stockholm and I see very few cyclists whatsoever. I don't blame them, I wouldn't want to share my space with cars either.

    - Parks are quite pleasant, but ultimately too heavy on grass. I miss conifers and proper forests like back home. I grew up not far from Blackeberg and we have a real forest there. Still within Stockholm municipality.

    Overall, I'm quite happy I live in Sweden and not in the UK. One major advantage London has is that it definitely feels more cosmopolitan, whereas Stockholm is obviously more provincial. But QoL in Stockholm is unquestionably greater. I will go to Berlin hopefully next year as I have not been in a while and then round up with Paris to do a full comparison. I am particularly interested in Paris given Anne Hidalgo's radical work to make it far less car-centric, which can hopefully work as an inspiration for many other cities.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry

    Have you heard anybody in London talk about the new Abba show?

  726. @German_reader
    @AP


    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.
     
    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies? Did the Spanish let native communities keep weapons or respect their property claims? No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí (and I suppose much more could be cited by someone who knows more about Spanish America than I do). So I simply don't see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:
     
    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs, where certainly there also were plenty of massacres). So again a rather more complicated story than just "Calvinists commit genocide against harmless natives for no good reason".

    But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach.
     
    I don't know if those efforts were ended completely (and it seems to me relations with different Indian groups varied quite a lot), would have to look that up (and I can't comment on Quebec at all). But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed, and had never shown any interest at all in their conversion. imo that's clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.

    Replies: @songbird, @utu, @AP

    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites

    No, utu does not say that. This is about indifference. The indifference of ethno-racialists like that in Sailer or that hanger-on songbird. Calvinists were Sailerites. Sailer feels superior to everybody including Germans, French, Italians, Spaniards…. Indifference is worse than hate. In the OT when Jews are commanded to genocide other groups there was no hate. To be hated you must be human first.

    Catholics by themselves in groups w/o priests and monks would act also on crude self interest just like Calvinists but they had to play it down as they could not seek justifications for such behaviors in the OT. The New World was not the Promised Land or the City on a Hill for them as it was for Calvinists.

    Furthermore Catholics did not have enough European women with them and this made them more open to the Natives and their culture while among Calvinists marrying native women amounted to treason. Men who did it were labeled as renegades who went native. This is a good litmus tests showing that Calvinists did not see Natives as fully humans. They were Sailerites before Darwin, Mendel, and Hitler.

    The crucial factor that made Catholic colonies and conquest different was the presence of priests and monks and the fact that in Catholic countries separation of church and state was real as it meant something entirely different from what Anglo-Americans think, i.e., that Church had its own policies, doctrines an goals that not always coincided with the interest of the state while for Calvinists and Protestants in general there must be no mis-alignment between the state and religion. Protestants are unable to tolerate slightest contradictions so in the end they either created a quasi- totalitarian systems or a meaningless religion that dissolves itself.

    Church had decided that Savages are unequivocally humans who possess souls and thus serious efforts and attempts must be made to save their souls from the eternal damnation. Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.

    Soul-saving was a Christian duty. The officers of Church like priest and monks exerted strong moderating influence on behavior of lay settlers. The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.

    The difference between Calvinists and Catholics was similarly to difference between Nazis and Bolsheviks. Both Bolsheviks and Catholics wanted to conquer the world for their idea believing that it would benefit the conquered people while Calvinists and German Nazis wanted to conquer the land for their Lebensraum. This is the chief reason why with the full knowledge of the enormity of Bolshevik crimes we to do place them I the same circle of hell we placed German Nazis. German Nazis including Hitler just like the latter day Zionists frequently used the conquest of Northern America and elimination of the Native people as the exemplar and justification for their action. They did not have Cortez or Pizarro or French Jesuts or Spanish Dominicans in mind but rather of John Winthrop.

    BTW: I am surprised to see you arguing with AP against what is self-evident. Obviously one can overstate the case on behalf of Catholics and CRC but I do not think that AP is guilty of it as his argument are measured and reasonable. Your irrational obstinacy is part of your personality trait. You could have written much better what I have here because you know and agree with my position. Stop arguing in bad faith. Just be happy that all the sovoks abandoned the ship after Karlin departure and so you do not have to suffer their pathological nationalism that chased you away from the UR in the first place.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @utu


    Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.
     
    Did you even read my comments? My argument was that actually some Calvinists went to extraordinary lengths to convert and assimilate Indians, going so far as to translate the entire Bible into Algonquian (with the help of native collaborators) and creating a system of towns where Christianized Indians enjoyed some kind of self-government. Now maybe you could argue that this more humane approach was eventually given up (as I wrote I'd need to look more into why and how exactly this happened, since I don't know that much about the issues...but tbh my strong impression is neither do you), but its very existence is proof that there was no straight way from Calvinism and its theological beliefs to massacring Indians.
    And drawing a straight line from 17th century Calvinist settlers (whose mental world is very different from our own) to "Sailerites" is also not very convincing imo.

    The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.
     
    In theory, in practice the vast mass of Amerindians in Spanish America was clearly kept in a subordinate position to the Spanish settlers. But I will admit that the Catholic church did take at least some steps to protect them.
    More generally I would even agree that there is such a thing as "pathological nationalism". However, the problem I have with your entire line of argument is that today we're suffering from the opposite problem, an insane excess of universalism that is rapidly transforming almost all Western countries into something completely unrecognizable. Do you ever have to say something about that (apart from insinuating it may have been the Jews, who supposedly targeted countries like Sweden for their support of the Palestinians)? About the extreme pro-immigration position of the current pope, which is sure to eventually turn all Europeans into dwindling minorities in their own countries, if implemented? And these views are almost utterly dominant throughout the West today. We're not in the 1930s or 1940s anymore, the ethno-racialists you love to condemn have zero institutional power. So while I don't dismiss your perspective totally, it seems pretty one-sided to me.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @songbird
    @utu


    The indifference of ethno-racialists like that in Sailer or that hanger-on songbird.
     
    I thought Sailer was a citizenist?

    BTW, I dislike it when you call me "ethno-racialist", as I feel it gives me the false (though laudatory) credentials of being a modern Linnaeus.

  727. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Well I'm a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it's not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants' situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    "68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey." https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump's rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    -
    * I'm not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @songbird, @Mikel

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    I agree, except with the last part.

    IMO, it could be done for a reasonable dollar cost. (less than we are spending now) But, it would take cost-optimizing incentives, moving resources, and seeking the greatest efficiencies, which would mean a lot of things totally unpalatable to progressives. More succinctly one could say that it is too costly for the progressive mindset because it would be a complete surrender on racial egalitarianism. A functional demonstration would demolish the idea that people are moving to experience political freedom, and not simply for material gain, which, let’s face it, would be a real hit on the vanity of liberals.

    • Agree: LatW
  728. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Whereas to complain that individual people who gamble by going on it is to complain against human
     
    Sorry, I need to elaborate. Of course, the journey is crazy difficult and heartbreaking. I didn't mean to ignore the context, obviously the trafficking chains are a tough nut to crack. And of course there are protocols for genuine real refugees. But we are objecting to the lumping together of the real ones and just seekers of better pastures so to speak. Of course, terrible things can happen and people end up cheated, used. Etc. This btw happens with Slavs, too, but they don't get the publicity.

    I will insist that grown men take responsibility for their actions. They're treated like babies by the liberals. They should in fact be helping others in their own communities. As to human nature as you say, yes, the human nature is to seek better pastures, the problem here is the lack of enforcement. We can't get everything we want, there are boundaries.

    The problem is not that they're gambling as individuals but their entitlement. As in, screw your pathetic country, I just need to pass through here on my way to Germany. And when we rightfully say No, they create physical damage. And then some liberal Swede comes and uses Christmas time when people's hearts are open to virtue signal and lord it over Poland and Lithuania. Please.

    Anyway, I don't want to be cruel during this time.
    Passing you a cup of glintwein...

    But remember that Joseph didn't take his Wife on some dangerous journey, he took Her to his ancestral home to his family. But of course if you ask if kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees but they still encounter life's difficulties. Some got thrown into prison in Belarus. Some grace should be shown without allowing their liberal defenders to dance on our heads.

    And for you as a legal immigrant, given what a pain it is to do go through all the procedures it must be annoying. You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you're Slavic, you are a part of our larger family. The objections for you migrating within the wider Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol, jk).



    To answer about Morgenshtern. He was ok with going with the program and being neutral, he would never talk smack against the rulers like Nemtsov did. But you see... that wasn't enough. What he didn't want is to bend over and to openly supplicate. No artist or no free human being wants to.

    As to the ruling class trying to maintain stability, it's totally understandable. Nobody wants to give up their power position and I also feel that they are afraid of the so called "smuty" (chaos, political and social disorientation, value vacuum). You know how they keep saying " You want it to be like in Ukraine?".

    Hence, the clinging to "values" (the so called skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well, it's not the 90s anymore. But it might be that the ruling power doesn't want to experiment with that especially given all the global and regional instability.

    You know, I had not heard of this Khasbik character before. I was, like, whose child is it in the video? But it turns out he's a real Dag Chad. Lol. Why did you say he's Kadyrov's nemesis, Kadyrov gifted him a Mercedes, is it because Khasbik is popular? I'm noticing all these popular peeps with millions of TikTok views are getting presents. In the video, you can see this SUV or some kind of an armored vehicle that this rich Uzbeki guy gifted to Morgenshtern. What's up with that? Is it because he wants to be his friend or is it just some kind of pokazuha? Funny stuff. I guess Burzhik is the right hangout for these types. Morgenshtern is apparently in Palm Jumeirah, the place with the cool beach condos.

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    Anyway, just to clarify, without getting too verbose, on why I appeal to the strong and capable migrants’ individual responsibility and agency. Yes, I guess it’s ok to gamble by hiking up to a border or going on a trip in the ocean in a rubber boat with a newborn. But when you fail, please, do not blame others. Do not call them monsters for observing their own rules. During the border crisis the Russian media was calling Poles and Lithuanians monsters. Western liberals have similar tendencies. They never questioned the migrants’ decisions to bring pregnant women, elderly and children on such dangerous journeys to begin with.

    They’re blaming us for their own failures. That’s what I’m objecting to, not that some of them try and gamble with their lives.

    • Agree: songbird
  729. German_reader says:
    @utu
    @German_reader


    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites
     
    No, utu does not say that. This is about indifference. The indifference of ethno-racialists like that in Sailer or that hanger-on songbird. Calvinists were Sailerites. Sailer feels superior to everybody including Germans, French, Italians, Spaniards.... Indifference is worse than hate. In the OT when Jews are commanded to genocide other groups there was no hate. To be hated you must be human first.

    Catholics by themselves in groups w/o priests and monks would act also on crude self interest just like Calvinists but they had to play it down as they could not seek justifications for such behaviors in the OT. The New World was not the Promised Land or the City on a Hill for them as it was for Calvinists.

    Furthermore Catholics did not have enough European women with them and this made them more open to the Natives and their culture while among Calvinists marrying native women amounted to treason. Men who did it were labeled as renegades who went native. This is a good litmus tests showing that Calvinists did not see Natives as fully humans. They were Sailerites before Darwin, Mendel, and Hitler.

    The crucial factor that made Catholic colonies and conquest different was the presence of priests and monks and the fact that in Catholic countries separation of church and state was real as it meant something entirely different from what Anglo-Americans think, i.e., that Church had its own policies, doctrines an goals that not always coincided with the interest of the state while for Calvinists and Protestants in general there must be no mis-alignment between the state and religion. Protestants are unable to tolerate slightest contradictions so in the end they either created a quasi- totalitarian systems or a meaningless religion that dissolves itself.

    Church had decided that Savages are unequivocally humans who possess souls and thus serious efforts and attempts must be made to save their souls from the eternal damnation. Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.

    Soul-saving was a Christian duty. The officers of Church like priest and monks exerted strong moderating influence on behavior of lay settlers. The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.

    The difference between Calvinists and Catholics was similarly to difference between Nazis and Bolsheviks. Both Bolsheviks and Catholics wanted to conquer the world for their idea believing that it would benefit the conquered people while Calvinists and German Nazis wanted to conquer the land for their Lebensraum. This is the chief reason why with the full knowledge of the enormity of Bolshevik crimes we to do place them I the same circle of hell we placed German Nazis. German Nazis including Hitler just like the latter day Zionists frequently used the conquest of Northern America and elimination of the Native people as the exemplar and justification for their action. They did not have Cortez or Pizarro or French Jesuts or Spanish Dominicans in mind but rather of John Winthrop.

    BTW: I am surprised to see you arguing with AP against what is self-evident. Obviously one can overstate the case on behalf of Catholics and CRC but I do not think that AP is guilty of it as his argument are measured and reasonable. Your irrational obstinacy is part of your personality trait. You could have written much better what I have here because you know and agree with my position. Stop arguing in bad faith. Just be happy that all the sovoks abandoned the ship after Karlin departure and so you do not have to suffer their pathological nationalism that chased you away from the UR in the first place.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.

    Did you even read my comments? My argument was that actually some Calvinists went to extraordinary lengths to convert and assimilate Indians, going so far as to translate the entire Bible into Algonquian (with the help of native collaborators) and creating a system of towns where Christianized Indians enjoyed some kind of self-government. Now maybe you could argue that this more humane approach was eventually given up (as I wrote I’d need to look more into why and how exactly this happened, since I don’t know that much about the issues…but tbh my strong impression is neither do you), but its very existence is proof that there was no straight way from Calvinism and its theological beliefs to massacring Indians.
    And drawing a straight line from 17th century Calvinist settlers (whose mental world is very different from our own) to “Sailerites” is also not very convincing imo.

    The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.

    In theory, in practice the vast mass of Amerindians in Spanish America was clearly kept in a subordinate position to the Spanish settlers. But I will admit that the Catholic church did take at least some steps to protect them.
    More generally I would even agree that there is such a thing as “pathological nationalism”. However, the problem I have with your entire line of argument is that today we’re suffering from the opposite problem, an insane excess of universalism that is rapidly transforming almost all Western countries into something completely unrecognizable. Do you ever have to say something about that (apart from insinuating it may have been the Jews, who supposedly targeted countries like Sweden for their support of the Palestinians)? About the extreme pro-immigration position of the current pope, which is sure to eventually turn all Europeans into dwindling minorities in their own countries, if implemented? And these views are almost utterly dominant throughout the West today. We’re not in the 1930s or 1940s anymore, the ethno-racialists you love to condemn have zero institutional power. So while I don’t dismiss your perspective totally, it seems pretty one-sided to me.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    About the extreme pro-immigration position of the current pope, which is sure to eventually turn all Europeans into dwindling minorities in their own countries, if implemented? And these views are almost utterly dominant throughout the West today.
     
    But if the pope was in a position to implement his immigration agenda, he would also be in a position to implement the other part of it, dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world. And the part about stopping Europeans aborting their children, and reducing the use of contraception.

    It seems that the Church still teaches the view that the family rather than the individual is the basic political unit, and the state should primarily be family orientated. (They probably have to keep some of these teachings quiet nowadays in Western countries, because they are so retro.) So I think if the pope's teaching in general was implemented, the migration would stop due to political pressure and probably reverse, with Europeans emigrating again as they put more of their available resources into raising children.

    Replies: @German_reader

  730. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry

    A few weeks ago, a boat capsized on the coast of Malaysia killing at least 18 migrants. They were headed from Indonesia.

    This blog tends to be very eurocentric, but this issue affects the 2nd and 3rd world just as much, if not more so (just ask your average Turk about the refugee issue in her country). Turkey may be a transit country but Malaysia increasingly is not. It's nice enough for moslem refugees to wanting to go to.

    If one path is closed, another is opened. Just creating a new country out of thin air won't cut it either, because the fundamental root of this issue is massive and increasing wealth inequality. As I wrote a few days ago, most of the "emerging markets" are in fact submerging outside of ASEAN and to some extent India. Coupled with relatively rapid population growth there can only be one outcome: more people will try their luck abroad, and who can blame them?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @sher singh

    You’re a Malesh (melech), beef eater, right? What’re your thoughts on this??

    I assume you’re a gaytheist homosexual who opposes the Kirpan as well??

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    [MORE]

  731. @German_reader
    @AP


    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.
     
    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies? Did the Spanish let native communities keep weapons or respect their property claims? No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí (and I suppose much more could be cited by someone who knows more about Spanish America than I do). So I simply don't see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:
     
    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs, where certainly there also were plenty of massacres). So again a rather more complicated story than just "Calvinists commit genocide against harmless natives for no good reason".

    But the bottom line is that the Puritans ended such efforts and took the route of massacres and ethnic cleansing while the French took a different approach.
     
    I don't know if those efforts were ended completely (and it seems to me relations with different Indian groups varied quite a lot), would have to look that up (and I can't comment on Quebec at all). But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed, and had never shown any interest at all in their conversion. imo that's clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.

    Replies: @songbird, @utu, @AP

    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies?

    I could be wrong but it seems that those Indians weren’t part of the Colonies but were sovereign, thus it was a different category. The war was precipitated by the Colonists infringing on sovereign Indian lands, and resulted in genocide of the Indians by the Calvinists.

    However don’t forget that the Jesuits armed and taught warfare to the Indians in Paraguay to help them to defend themselves against Portuguese slavers.

    No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí

    Those people were mostly serfs already; I’m not sure their lives became much worse (in Mexico and Central America, they weren’t getting harvested for human sacrifice anymore). While abuses undoubtedly occurred, the natives were also baptized and educated, eventually becoming something like Spanish peasants. In New England they were just disappeared.

    So I simply don’t see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.

    Again, compare missions with their teaching the natives and productions of great art, with mass killing and removal.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs

    But the native allies were shocked and horrified by the scale of the mass killing by the Calvinists:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pequot_War#The_Mystic_massacre

    “The Narragansetts and Mohegans with Mason and Underhill’s colonial militia were horrified by the actions and “manner of the Englishmen’s fight… because it is too furious, and slays too many men.”[25][26] .”

    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed

    Not always but more often than not, and that’s what generally happened. It’s why there are 3 times more Natives in the areas where the French went, that are right next door to where the Calvinists settled.

    imo that’s clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.

    It is indeed an over-simplification. That doesn’t mean it isn’t generally correct.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    I could be wrong but it seems that those Indians weren’t part of the Colonies but were sovereign
     
    imo that's just sophistry, the Indians under Spanish rule had been "sovereign" too before their military conquest by the Spanish. Now I know you will argue that those conquests were just because of human sacrifice etc. (even though the scale of human sacrifice among the Aztecs seems to have been exceptional, and not equalled among other Indian societies conquered by the Spanish) and because they allowed the spread of Catholicism, but you can always come up with some justification...was it just that the Indians claimed such large hunting grounds in New England which could have fed so many more people when put to agricultural use? Not that I endorse this argument, but if you apply today's standards, all those conquests were unjust.

    While abuses undoubtedly occurred, the natives were also baptized and educated, eventually becoming something like Spanish peasants. In New England they were just disappeared.
     
    They weren't all "disappeared" in the sense of being killed or deported (though they were demographically swamped by the English settlers with their high birthrates, which is arguably bad enough). And it seems to be clear Indians in New England were always much less numerous than in Spanish America, which had had some very populous societies before the conquest. Just look at the numbers for some of the incidents mentioned in this discussion...the Mystic massacre: 500 dead, King Philip's war: maybe 3000 to 4000 dead. Obviously disastrous from the point of view of those affected, but on a much smaller scale than anything in Mexico or the Andes.
    I can't comment on your counter-example of Quebec, would have to look into it. I hope this isn't offensive, but I really suspect your judgement on those issues is strongly affected by religious considerations (cynically one could interpret it in the sense that it wasn't that bad if the Spanish sent Indian forced labourers to toil in mines, so the king of Spain had enough silver for all his wars, because the Spaniards had at least brought them the correct religion and thereby saved their souls, something which the Calvinists couldn't have done in any case)...so to some extent our judgements on those issues are bound to be irreconcilable because of different prior assumptions. I also think this discussion suffers from being over-generalized, with all participants arguing about things they probably don't know enough about, myself very much included, so we're going round in circles, and I'm not sure it makes much sense to continue, unless some new information is brought up.

    Replies: @AP

  732. @utu
    @German_reader


    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites
     
    No, utu does not say that. This is about indifference. The indifference of ethno-racialists like that in Sailer or that hanger-on songbird. Calvinists were Sailerites. Sailer feels superior to everybody including Germans, French, Italians, Spaniards.... Indifference is worse than hate. In the OT when Jews are commanded to genocide other groups there was no hate. To be hated you must be human first.

    Catholics by themselves in groups w/o priests and monks would act also on crude self interest just like Calvinists but they had to play it down as they could not seek justifications for such behaviors in the OT. The New World was not the Promised Land or the City on a Hill for them as it was for Calvinists.

    Furthermore Catholics did not have enough European women with them and this made them more open to the Natives and their culture while among Calvinists marrying native women amounted to treason. Men who did it were labeled as renegades who went native. This is a good litmus tests showing that Calvinists did not see Natives as fully humans. They were Sailerites before Darwin, Mendel, and Hitler.

    The crucial factor that made Catholic colonies and conquest different was the presence of priests and monks and the fact that in Catholic countries separation of church and state was real as it meant something entirely different from what Anglo-Americans think, i.e., that Church had its own policies, doctrines an goals that not always coincided with the interest of the state while for Calvinists and Protestants in general there must be no mis-alignment between the state and religion. Protestants are unable to tolerate slightest contradictions so in the end they either created a quasi- totalitarian systems or a meaningless religion that dissolves itself.

    Church had decided that Savages are unequivocally humans who possess souls and thus serious efforts and attempts must be made to save their souls from the eternal damnation. Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.

    Soul-saving was a Christian duty. The officers of Church like priest and monks exerted strong moderating influence on behavior of lay settlers. The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.

    The difference between Calvinists and Catholics was similarly to difference between Nazis and Bolsheviks. Both Bolsheviks and Catholics wanted to conquer the world for their idea believing that it would benefit the conquered people while Calvinists and German Nazis wanted to conquer the land for their Lebensraum. This is the chief reason why with the full knowledge of the enormity of Bolshevik crimes we to do place them I the same circle of hell we placed German Nazis. German Nazis including Hitler just like the latter day Zionists frequently used the conquest of Northern America and elimination of the Native people as the exemplar and justification for their action. They did not have Cortez or Pizarro or French Jesuts or Spanish Dominicans in mind but rather of John Winthrop.

    BTW: I am surprised to see you arguing with AP against what is self-evident. Obviously one can overstate the case on behalf of Catholics and CRC but I do not think that AP is guilty of it as his argument are measured and reasonable. Your irrational obstinacy is part of your personality trait. You could have written much better what I have here because you know and agree with my position. Stop arguing in bad faith. Just be happy that all the sovoks abandoned the ship after Karlin departure and so you do not have to suffer their pathological nationalism that chased you away from the UR in the first place.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    The indifference of ethno-racialists like that in Sailer or that hanger-on songbird.

    I thought Sailer was a citizenist?

    BTW, I dislike it when you call me “ethno-racialist”, as I feel it gives me the false (though laudatory) credentials of being a modern Linnaeus.

  733. @songbird
    @German_reader

    I also find AP's Latin American argument puzzling. Hard to figure out what the real distinction is that he sees, when making the comparison.

    If he is mourning the loss of culture in US Amerinds on the Atlantic coast, well, I personally, find it quite dubious. These were people who made wigwams and had no metallurgy. To be brutally honest, about it, they never developed much of a culture. Or if they had one, it took an apocalyptic hit, from the intitial mass die-offs of Amerinds, before the English ever landed. Anyway, the major features of it were not terribly distinct from others in the interior, perhaps, leaving the distinction of languages. But languages are something that have been vanishing globally. Meanwhile, the Spanish had their reducciones. The forced relocation of over a million Amerinds, with the goal of deracinating them, and eliminating their distinct cultures, and subjugating them.

    If OTOH, he is considering deaths as instances of tragedy, there is no question that more deaths by orders of magnitude, happened in Spanish territories, due to the large population and size of armies.

    The only thing I can see left, is their loss of land, which I also find puzzling, as I think a non-woke individual (and I am not accusing him of being woke) would see that as a positive. (Who really would consider the US being Peru, as a positive?) Anyway, it was hardly something unique that English people did, and it is likely that someone else would have done it, had they not.
    ____
    If he is right about Quebec - less massacres - I don't see that is necessarily to do with sect, but in all probably is just geodeterminism. Quebec was thinly populated, hard to penetrate, had a reliance on fur trading, whoever ruled it would probably be more cautious about stirring the Amerinds up.

    Replies: @AP

    If he is mourning the loss of culture in US Amerinds on the Atlantic coast

    I was just pointing out that mass murder was wrong and compared the mass murder unfavorably to teaching and improving the people, and letting them live, as was done on Spanish missions and in New France. There were occasions when the Calvinists behaved like Jesuits (praying towns) but sadly these efforts were abandoned in favor of slaughter. When Catholic missionaries were murdered they were hailed as martyrs and efforts to educate and improve the natives continued. When Calvinists were murdered entire tribes were exterminated.

    Quebec was thinly populated, hard to penetrate, had a reliance on fur trading

    By 1763 the population of Quebec was around 70,000. In 1640, around the time of the massacres during the Pequot War, New England only had 14,000 English settlers. During the time of King Phillips War in 1680 there were 68,000 New Englanders (in 1700 there were 16,000 French settlers). Although there were fewer English in 1640 than French in 1700 the English massacres the Natives, the French did not massacre the natives despite a mass killing of French settlers by Natives in 1689:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    “In response to the attack, the French mobilized 200 soldiers under the command of Daniel d’Auger de Subercase, along with 100 armed civilians and some soldiers from nearby Forts Rémy, Rolland, and La Présentation to march against the Iroquois.[19] They defended some of the fleeing colonists from their Mohawk pursuers, but just prior to reaching Lachine, the armed forces were recalled to Fort Rolland by the order of Governor Denonville, who was trying to pacify the local Iroquois inhabitants.[20] He had 700 soldiers at his disposal within the Montreal barracks and might have overtaken the Iroquois forces but decided to follow a diplomatic route.”

    So you probably can’t blame the population size for lack of massacres.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP

    New France was very susceptible to being blockaded and cutoff. Quebec had already been forced to surrender to English privateers in 1629. New France had a tiny population, when compared to the Thirteen Colonies, so they needed to be accommodating to Indians, and enter into defense pacts with them, in order to protect themselves from the British. That is why the term "French and Indian War" exists, as the French strategy was reliant on Indians helping them to defend New France.


    I was just pointing out that mass murder was wrong
     
    A useful portal for touching on the scope of Spain's wars in the New World:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Spain

    I won't attempt a full abstraction, but you can read about "punitive raids", lack of contemporary accounts, the forced relocation of vast populations, conflicts lasting over a hundred years. here is just a snippet, and not the most damning:

    There are no direct sources describing the conquest of the Chajoma by the Spanish but it appears to have been a drawn-out campaign rather than a rapid victory. The only description of the conquest of the Chajoma is a secondary account appearing in the work of Francisco Antonio de Fuentes y Guzmán in the 17th century, long after the event. After the conquest, the inhabitants of the eastern part of the kingdom were relocated by the conquerors to San Pedro Sacatepéquez, including some of the inhabitants of the archaeological site now known as Mixco Viejo (Jilotepeque Viejo). The rest of the population of Mixco Viejo, together with the inhabitants of the western part of the kingdom, were moved to San Martín Jilotepeque.The Chajoma rebelled against the Spanish in 1526, fighting a battle at Ukubʼil, an unidentified site somewhere near the modern towns of San Juan Sacatepéquez and San Pedro Sacatepéquez.

    In the colonial period, most of the surviving Chajoma were forcibly settled in the towns of San Juan Sacatepéquez, San Pedro Sacatepéquez and San Martín Jilotepeque
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_Chiapas

    Spain's strategy, in their more densely-populated areas, seems to have been to force Indians into cities and towns, to effectively create cities and towns by concentrating them. While the strategy in the sparsely-populated America was to remove them to low density areas, often more inland.

    Let's consider the alternative; what would have happened if they had been forced into cities, like in New Spain, but cities with proportionately more Europeans in them - well, it seems obvious that they would have been even more ravished by disease. Disease, which was the real killer, not "mass-killings" - disease working over the coarse of decades, leading to less children and facilitating them being swamped and absorbed into the colonial population.

    Replies: @AP

  734. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Well I'm a legal immigrant, so I have this moralistic feeling after carefully writing the paperworks, passing the visa interview, renewing visa every two years, etc. Then you read about people who climbed over a fence.

    But it's not like we can assess how difficult these immigrants' situation has been, or what they escape from. These are not choices (to break law by climbing over a fence) in a vacuum.

    The issue is with the solving the larger system, and which governments seem not enough interested in planning. Everyone knows that they should create a separate country that can give safety to refugees, but probably this will be far too expensive for the international community to ever build.

    This is also where Trump was accurate in some of comments about USA border with Mexico, and the rape that affects this journey.

    So by closing this immigration path itself should be a humanitarian priority.

    "68.3 percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States. Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey." https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/msf_forced-to-flee-central-americas-northern-triangle.pdf

    The immigration path itself is a problem, in combination with the organized mafias that operate it. Whereas complaining that the individual people who gamble by going on it, is complaining against human nature (if you have an option to radically improve your life, by going on such a journey).

    This problem is part of the dysfunction of the countries from which people are trying to escape. Latin America is such a political/economic/sociological disaster zone,* that people will gamble their life to escape the region.

    A responsible policy would including closing for illegal immigration the Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala, as well as between USA-Mexico. It would require a stronger collaboration between Mexico and USA.

    Which of course Trump's rhetoric was not useful for, because he was just was mainly interested in emotionally exciting one half of an angry American political-entertainment complex and to win elections with useless rhetoric.


    -
    * I'm not sure that AP can too easily justify the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Thulean Friend, @LatW, @songbird, @Mikel

    the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.

    Do you really believe that events that occurred 500 years ago are the cause of the political and economic dysfunction of the whole of Latin America today? What would be the exact causal mechanism of such a long-lasting phenomenon?

    I wish we Basques had not been defeated at Amaiur and had never been a part of the Spanish imperial projects but I respect the courage of the Spanish conquistadors nonetheless and would not blame them for what totally different people half a millennium later are capable or incapable of doing with their countries.

    If you mean to say that territories conquered by Spain become dysfunctional, then Latin American countries would be about as dysfunctional as Andalusia or the Canary Islands. Not that these Spanish regions are comparable to the most advanced economies at all but you don’t see Andalusians and Canarians risking their lives to emigrate. In fact, what you see is thousands and thousands of 3rd World migrants risking their lives to arrive to Andalusia and the Canary Islands instead.

    The idea of institutions and customs inherited from Spain being the cause of the continent-wide catastrophic situation is a fairy tale many Latin Americans like to tell themselves but does not look very serious. Latin American countries have enjoyed over two centuries of independent life to rid themselves of any pernicious influence from Spain, which was the reason why they sought independence to begin with, but it didn’t work any well. And not for lack of trying. Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama. But they are unable to lift themselves from mediocrity and dysfunction.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    institutions and customs inherited from Spain

     

    I wasn't saying this in that post. Just that conquistadors are a long term cause of this disaster zone.

    But I think this is an area to investigate - why are the countries which inherit customs and institutions from the Spanish Empire and Portuguese Empire, all having badly designed customs and institutions.

    For example, in political/legal frameworks. Which latino country does not have a dictatorship at least for some time during the 20th century? Not Spain or Portugal, or most of Latin America.

    By comparison, which anglosaxon country has a dictatorship in history. I believe it can possibly be 0?

    It can look like a simplistic divide. But being able to create such a simple divide, is probably indication of an area to investigate. Not that I can write many answers, but I would hope historians, political and legal theorists, notice and investigate this.

    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.

    If you look at any country where you would want to emigrate or invest, is there any current Spanish-speaking country where you would trust the political, legal or property rights regime?

    That's not to say Spanish-speaking countries are especially bad there. Are there any current Russian-speaking countries you would trust in those areas (only if you were very naïve). Are there any Urdu speaking countries? ​ For most of the world, it would be "no".


    Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama.
     
    But "differences".

    There are certainly a lot of shared schema of Franco, Castro, Salazar, Videla, Peron, Pinochet, Batista, et al, even if they claimed they have a different ideology.

    I'm not saying that they are the fair representative of Latin American politics, but when those countries become at least halfway dictatorship (as commonly during the 20th century), much of their politics seems like a family resemblance.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel

  735. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader


    Sources tend to agree that the war was preceded by actions by Colonists – they demanded the Indians turn in their weapons, they were letting their livestock go onto Indian hunting grounds, etc.

    How exactly is this supposed to be worse than what the Spanish did in their colonies?
     
    I could be wrong but it seems that those Indians weren't part of the Colonies but were sovereign, thus it was a different category. The war was precipitated by the Colonists infringing on sovereign Indian lands, and resulted in genocide of the Indians by the Calvinists.

    However don't forget that the Jesuits armed and taught warfare to the Indians in Paraguay to help them to defend themselves against Portuguese slavers.

    No, they militarily subjugated the natives and handed over entire communities for labour service to individual conquerors under the encomienda system, and for more than two centuries sent indigenous forced laborers to the mines at Potosí
     
    Those people were mostly serfs already; I'm not sure their lives became much worse (in Mexico and Central America, they weren't getting harvested for human sacrifice anymore). While abuses undoubtedly occurred, the natives were also baptized and educated, eventually becoming something like Spanish peasants. In New England they were just disappeared.

    So I simply don’t see the supposed moral difference between Calvinist and Catholic colonialists.
     
    Again, compare missions with their teaching the natives and productions of great art, with mass killing and removal.

    King Phillips War was preceded by the Pequot war which saw the English annihilate the Pequot people:

    Certainly brutal, but your link also makes clear that the English had native allies in that war who deeply resented their Pequot overlords (maybe a bit similar to Cortez and his native allies against the Aztecs
     
    But the native allies were shocked and horrified by the scale of the mass killing by the Calvinists:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pequot_War#The_Mystic_massacre

    "The Narragansetts and Mohegans with Mason and Underhill's colonial militia were horrified by the actions and "manner of the Englishmen's fight… because it is too furious, and slays too many men."[25][26] ."

    But you and utu have always presented it as if Calvinists because of their peculiar interpretation of the OT had always just regarded the natives as Amalekites, to be destroyed and removed
     
    Not always but more often than not, and that's what generally happened. It's why there are 3 times more Natives in the areas where the French went, that are right next door to where the Calvinists settled.

    imo that’s clearly at least an over-simplification of what actually happened.
     
    It is indeed an over-simplification. That doesn't mean it isn't generally correct.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I could be wrong but it seems that those Indians weren’t part of the Colonies but were sovereign

    imo that’s just sophistry, the Indians under Spanish rule had been “sovereign” too before their military conquest by the Spanish. Now I know you will argue that those conquests were just because of human sacrifice etc. (even though the scale of human sacrifice among the Aztecs seems to have been exceptional, and not equalled among other Indian societies conquered by the Spanish) and because they allowed the spread of Catholicism, but you can always come up with some justification…was it just that the Indians claimed such large hunting grounds in New England which could have fed so many more people when put to agricultural use? Not that I endorse this argument, but if you apply today’s standards, all those conquests were unjust.

    While abuses undoubtedly occurred, the natives were also baptized and educated, eventually becoming something like Spanish peasants. In New England they were just disappeared.

    They weren’t all “disappeared” in the sense of being killed or deported (though they were demographically swamped by the English settlers with their high birthrates, which is arguably bad enough). And it seems to be clear Indians in New England were always much less numerous than in Spanish America, which had had some very populous societies before the conquest. Just look at the numbers for some of the incidents mentioned in this discussion…the Mystic massacre: 500 dead, King Philip’s war: maybe 3000 to 4000 dead. Obviously disastrous from the point of view of those affected, but on a much smaller scale than anything in Mexico or the Andes.
    I can’t comment on your counter-example of Quebec, would have to look into it. I hope this isn’t offensive, but I really suspect your judgement on those issues is strongly affected by religious considerations (cynically one could interpret it in the sense that it wasn’t that bad if the Spanish sent Indian forced labourers to toil in mines, so the king of Spain had enough silver for all his wars, because the Spaniards had at least brought them the correct religion and thereby saved their souls, something which the Calvinists couldn’t have done in any case)…so to some extent our judgements on those issues are bound to be irreconcilable because of different prior assumptions. I also think this discussion suffers from being over-generalized, with all participants arguing about things they probably don’t know enough about, myself very much included, so we’re going round in circles, and I’m not sure it makes much sense to continue, unless some new information is brought up.

    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader


    imo that’s just sophistry, the Indians under Spanish rule had been “sovereign” too before their military conquest by the Spanish.
     
    It's not sophistry - the Natives weren't part of the colonies so treaties between them and the English couldn't be compared to rules laid down to subjects by rulers. In New England you had a cycle of: treaties with sovereign tribes; treaties being broken by the English; retaliatory strikes and killing by Indians; then wholesale extermination and removal by the English.

    With Spaniards you had: conquest; servitude combined with education and conversion; Natives mixed with Spaniards and becoming like Spanish peasants.

    And it seems to be clear Indians in New England were always much less numerous than in Spanish America,
     
    But not more numerous than in New France, yet there are more remaining Natives in New France.
  736. @German_reader
    @AP


    I could be wrong but it seems that those Indians weren’t part of the Colonies but were sovereign
     
    imo that's just sophistry, the Indians under Spanish rule had been "sovereign" too before their military conquest by the Spanish. Now I know you will argue that those conquests were just because of human sacrifice etc. (even though the scale of human sacrifice among the Aztecs seems to have been exceptional, and not equalled among other Indian societies conquered by the Spanish) and because they allowed the spread of Catholicism, but you can always come up with some justification...was it just that the Indians claimed such large hunting grounds in New England which could have fed so many more people when put to agricultural use? Not that I endorse this argument, but if you apply today's standards, all those conquests were unjust.

    While abuses undoubtedly occurred, the natives were also baptized and educated, eventually becoming something like Spanish peasants. In New England they were just disappeared.
     
    They weren't all "disappeared" in the sense of being killed or deported (though they were demographically swamped by the English settlers with their high birthrates, which is arguably bad enough). And it seems to be clear Indians in New England were always much less numerous than in Spanish America, which had had some very populous societies before the conquest. Just look at the numbers for some of the incidents mentioned in this discussion...the Mystic massacre: 500 dead, King Philip's war: maybe 3000 to 4000 dead. Obviously disastrous from the point of view of those affected, but on a much smaller scale than anything in Mexico or the Andes.
    I can't comment on your counter-example of Quebec, would have to look into it. I hope this isn't offensive, but I really suspect your judgement on those issues is strongly affected by religious considerations (cynically one could interpret it in the sense that it wasn't that bad if the Spanish sent Indian forced labourers to toil in mines, so the king of Spain had enough silver for all his wars, because the Spaniards had at least brought them the correct religion and thereby saved their souls, something which the Calvinists couldn't have done in any case)...so to some extent our judgements on those issues are bound to be irreconcilable because of different prior assumptions. I also think this discussion suffers from being over-generalized, with all participants arguing about things they probably don't know enough about, myself very much included, so we're going round in circles, and I'm not sure it makes much sense to continue, unless some new information is brought up.

    Replies: @AP

    imo that’s just sophistry, the Indians under Spanish rule had been “sovereign” too before their military conquest by the Spanish.

    It’s not sophistry – the Natives weren’t part of the colonies so treaties between them and the English couldn’t be compared to rules laid down to subjects by rulers. In New England you had a cycle of: treaties with sovereign tribes; treaties being broken by the English; retaliatory strikes and killing by Indians; then wholesale extermination and removal by the English.

    With Spaniards you had: conquest; servitude combined with education and conversion; Natives mixed with Spaniards and becoming like Spanish peasants.

    And it seems to be clear Indians in New England were always much less numerous than in Spanish America,

    But not more numerous than in New France, yet there are more remaining Natives in New France.

  737. For those who might be interested yet do not have a disposable two hours to devote to Huberman and David Buss I listened to the entire thing and made a few notes.

    1. Male sex status == how much attention do you attract in sum in a crowd. **
    2. Men cheat when they can because they can if they can. Women cheat because they are not satisfied with him.
    3. Cuckoldry frequencies ~.02. Nothing like the pick up artistry industry claim.
    4. Questions for the confronted cheater:
    A. Men ask “did you fuck him?”
    B. Women ask “do you love her?”
    5. All freedom constraints sourced in jealousy; freedom constraints are on the scale of relationship violence.
    6. If she bruises her arm smacking you on the head with a frying pan, you are the one who is going to get arrested if somebody calls the police.
    7. Named sex predators: Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Cosby. **
    8. Stalking works as a mating strategy as a last chance long shot method 15% success rate.

    **REMARKS

    i. Buss used the words manipulate and manipulative a surprising to me number of times; I might title this discussion Mating and Manipulation by Evolution Psychology Professor.
    ii. The alpha monkey here is (was) Anatoly Karlin in Buss’s terms of attracting attention in a group. That we are apparently not even worth it as internet wing men might give some pause for thought.
    iii. Did Bill Cosby’s lawyers succeed in getting his conviction voided? I have lost track.
    iv. I looked for a transcript but could not find it. Huberman occasionally has the greatest information which is hardly worth listening to all the low signal fraction of his podcast. If anybody knows where transcripts can be linked I would really appreciate it.
    v. Buss’s book is here:

    Not cheap. I found a torrent copy. If it’s worth space on my book shelf I will buy one. No idea if Buss is a member of the pirate party or not. My guess is he must be. This paper is free to down load and presents his finding which he considers the most important–mating similarities across cultures are far more numerous and significant than differences.

    https://labs.la.utexas.edu/buss/files/2015/10/buss-1989-sex-differences-in-human-mate-preferences.pdf

    OK one last thing–the first time he did research in China virginity was an absolute requirement for a Chinese woman to be considered blue ribbon marriage stock. In the cities in China this is no longer the case.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Point 1 was a pretty good indicator, I'll keep that one.

    Point 8 -- I would say 15% is an excellent shot. Just stalk 6-7 women and you have your relationship. While we're on the topic, I recently read that Robert Pattinson, the vampire actor, after being stalked by some fangirl invited her for a dinner tete-a-tete and proceeded to tell her about his actual, somewhat miserable life. I got the impression she had faded him by the end of the meal. Also, if memory serves, the blonde ABBA girl actually entered a somewhat longer relationship with one of her stalkers. So stalking might work, I guess? Anyway, by contrast, walking up to a woman and charmingly asking for a date seems to have a success rate of 1-5% or so, judging from what the field experts say.

    The rest seems like fairly basic points. I wonder about the 2% cuckoldry rate, which might be somewhat low. We could easily find out by adding such a test to the standard test battery for infants, of course. (Indeed, a weaker test for non-fatherhood is already implied by some tests like blood group.) But for some reason we don't.

    While I haven't read the book you mention, and haven't kept up with the field in recent years, the most interesting work in the genre that I've found was Sperm Wars, which had many provocative statements, generally backed by the literature. I wonder to what extent it turned out to be correct.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  738. @AP
    @songbird


    If he is mourning the loss of culture in US Amerinds on the Atlantic coast

     

    I was just pointing out that mass murder was wrong and compared the mass murder unfavorably to teaching and improving the people, and letting them live, as was done on Spanish missions and in New France. There were occasions when the Calvinists behaved like Jesuits (praying towns) but sadly these efforts were abandoned in favor of slaughter. When Catholic missionaries were murdered they were hailed as martyrs and efforts to educate and improve the natives continued. When Calvinists were murdered entire tribes were exterminated.

    Quebec was thinly populated, hard to penetrate, had a reliance on fur trading
     
    By 1763 the population of Quebec was around 70,000. In 1640, around the time of the massacres during the Pequot War, New England only had 14,000 English settlers. During the time of King Phillips War in 1680 there were 68,000 New Englanders (in 1700 there were 16,000 French settlers). Although there were fewer English in 1640 than French in 1700 the English massacres the Natives, the French did not massacre the natives despite a mass killing of French settlers by Natives in 1689:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachine_massacre

    "In response to the attack, the French mobilized 200 soldiers under the command of Daniel d'Auger de Subercase, along with 100 armed civilians and some soldiers from nearby Forts Rémy, Rolland, and La Présentation to march against the Iroquois.[19] They defended some of the fleeing colonists from their Mohawk pursuers, but just prior to reaching Lachine, the armed forces were recalled to Fort Rolland by the order of Governor Denonville, who was trying to pacify the local Iroquois inhabitants.[20] He had 700 soldiers at his disposal within the Montreal barracks and might have overtaken the Iroquois forces but decided to follow a diplomatic route."


    So you probably can't blame the population size for lack of massacres.

    Replies: @songbird

    New France was very susceptible to being blockaded and cutoff. Quebec had already been forced to surrender to English privateers in 1629. New France had a tiny population, when compared to the Thirteen Colonies, so they needed to be accommodating to Indians, and enter into defense pacts with them, in order to protect themselves from the British. That is why the term “French and Indian War” exists, as the French strategy was reliant on Indians helping them to defend New France.

    I was just pointing out that mass murder was wrong

    A useful portal for touching on the scope of Spain’s wars in the New World:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Spain

    I won’t attempt a full abstraction, but you can read about “punitive raids”, lack of contemporary accounts, the forced relocation of vast populations, conflicts lasting over a hundred years. here is just a snippet, and not the most damning:

    [MORE]

    There are no direct sources describing the conquest of the Chajoma by the Spanish but it appears to have been a drawn-out campaign rather than a rapid victory. The only description of the conquest of the Chajoma is a secondary account appearing in the work of Francisco Antonio de Fuentes y Guzmán in the 17th century, long after the event. After the conquest, the inhabitants of the eastern part of the kingdom were relocated by the conquerors to San Pedro Sacatepéquez, including some of the inhabitants of the archaeological site now known as Mixco Viejo (Jilotepeque Viejo). The rest of the population of Mixco Viejo, together with the inhabitants of the western part of the kingdom, were moved to San Martín Jilotepeque.The Chajoma rebelled against the Spanish in 1526, fighting a battle at Ukubʼil, an unidentified site somewhere near the modern towns of San Juan Sacatepéquez and San Pedro Sacatepéquez.

    In the colonial period, most of the surviving Chajoma were forcibly settled in the towns of San Juan Sacatepéquez, San Pedro Sacatepéquez and San Martín Jilotepeque

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_Chiapas

    Spain’s strategy, in their more densely-populated areas, seems to have been to force Indians into cities and towns, to effectively create cities and towns by concentrating them. While the strategy in the sparsely-populated America was to remove them to low density areas, often more inland.

    Let’s consider the alternative; what would have happened if they had been forced into cities, like in New Spain, but cities with proportionately more Europeans in them – well, it seems obvious that they would have been even more ravished by disease. Disease, which was the real killer, not “mass-killings” – disease working over the coarse of decades, leading to less children and facilitating them being swamped and absorbed into the colonial population.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    A useful portal for touching on the scope of Spain’s wars in the New World:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Spain
     
    They show that the Spaniards were far less aversive than the English.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acaxee_Rebellion

    - Only a few thousand left when the Spanish came, due to the ravages of disease (numbers comparable to New England).

    - Indians killed about 50 Spaniards (how the first stage of the Pequot and King Phillip Wars started).

    - Spaniards executed the Indian leaders, but rather than massacre the population they "consolidating the Acaxee into a few settlements, appointing their leaders, and attempting to educate Indian children and remove them from the influence of their parents"

    Spain’s strategy, in their more densely-populated areas, seems to have been to force Indians into cities and towns, to effectively create cities and towns by concentrating them.
     
    In less populated Paraguay they forced them onto missions where they taught them how to read, write, build, make music, etc.

    While the strategy in the sparsely-populated America was to remove them to low density areas, often more inland.
     
    Or to massacre them into nonexistence.

    Disease, which was the real killer, not “mass-killings” – disease working over the coarse of decades
     
    Correct, but disease wasn't a deliberate act.

    Replies: @German_reader

  739. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    the achievements of conquistadors, which are one of the foundations for the dysfunctional politics and economics of the region.
     
    Do you really believe that events that occurred 500 years ago are the cause of the political and economic dysfunction of the whole of Latin America today? What would be the exact causal mechanism of such a long-lasting phenomenon?

    I wish we Basques had not been defeated at Amaiur and had never been a part of the Spanish imperial projects but I respect the courage of the Spanish conquistadors nonetheless and would not blame them for what totally different people half a millennium later are capable or incapable of doing with their countries.

    If you mean to say that territories conquered by Spain become dysfunctional, then Latin American countries would be about as dysfunctional as Andalusia or the Canary Islands. Not that these Spanish regions are comparable to the most advanced economies at all but you don't see Andalusians and Canarians risking their lives to emigrate. In fact, what you see is thousands and thousands of 3rd World migrants risking their lives to arrive to Andalusia and the Canary Islands instead.

    The idea of institutions and customs inherited from Spain being the cause of the continent-wide catastrophic situation is a fairy tale many Latin Americans like to tell themselves but does not look very serious. Latin American countries have enjoyed over two centuries of independent life to rid themselves of any pernicious influence from Spain, which was the reason why they sought independence to begin with, but it didn't work any well. And not for lack of trying. Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama. But they are unable to lift themselves from mediocrity and dysfunction.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    institutions and customs inherited from Spain

    I wasn’t saying this in that post. Just that conquistadors are a long term cause of this disaster zone.

    But I think this is an area to investigate – why are the countries which inherit customs and institutions from the Spanish Empire and Portuguese Empire, all having badly designed customs and institutions.

    For example, in political/legal frameworks. Which latino country does not have a dictatorship at least for some time during the 20th century? Not Spain or Portugal, or most of Latin America.

    By comparison, which anglosaxon country has a dictatorship in history. I believe it can possibly be 0?

    It can look like a simplistic divide. But being able to create such a simple divide, is probably indication of an area to investigate. Not that I can write many answers, but I would hope historians, political and legal theorists, notice and investigate this.

    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.

    If you look at any country where you would want to emigrate or invest, is there any current Spanish-speaking country where you would trust the political, legal or property rights regime?

    That’s not to say Spanish-speaking countries are especially bad there. Are there any current Russian-speaking countries you would trust in those areas (only if you were very naïve). Are there any Urdu speaking countries? ​ For most of the world, it would be “no”.

    Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama.

    But “differences”.

    There are certainly a lot of shared schema of Franco, Castro, Salazar, Videla, Peron, Pinochet, Batista, et al, even if they claimed they have a different ideology.

    I’m not saying that they are the fair representative of Latin American politics, but when those countries become at least halfway dictatorship (as commonly during the 20th century), much of their politics seems like a family resemblance.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    anglosaxon country has a dictatorship in history. I believe it can possibly be 0?
     
    Edit - "20th century history".
    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.
     
    Jamaica, Zimbabwe or Nigeria inherited Anglosaxon customs and institutions but I don't see very good results.

    To be clear, whatever Spanish cultural heritage Latin Americans received from Spain was not conducive to great prosperity. Spain was late to the industrial revolution and never achieved the levels of economic progress of its northern neighbors. Latin American independence leaders, influenced by the Enlightenment ideas, were themselves very critical of Spain's backwardness in their writings and hoped to create more prosperous societies than the mother country. But eventually the contrary happened. They became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it's too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.

    In social matters there are always multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries in Europe or Asia. If this was a natural sciences question, when you examine these countries' specifics there is a certain correlation that stands out so much that there wouldn't be any debate about its validity. But this isn't natural sciences so you're allowed to approach it with moral priors and you might have already decided that HBD cannot possibly play any role because HBD is morally wrong.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  740. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    institutions and customs inherited from Spain

     

    I wasn't saying this in that post. Just that conquistadors are a long term cause of this disaster zone.

    But I think this is an area to investigate - why are the countries which inherit customs and institutions from the Spanish Empire and Portuguese Empire, all having badly designed customs and institutions.

    For example, in political/legal frameworks. Which latino country does not have a dictatorship at least for some time during the 20th century? Not Spain or Portugal, or most of Latin America.

    By comparison, which anglosaxon country has a dictatorship in history. I believe it can possibly be 0?

    It can look like a simplistic divide. But being able to create such a simple divide, is probably indication of an area to investigate. Not that I can write many answers, but I would hope historians, political and legal theorists, notice and investigate this.

    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.

    If you look at any country where you would want to emigrate or invest, is there any current Spanish-speaking country where you would trust the political, legal or property rights regime?

    That's not to say Spanish-speaking countries are especially bad there. Are there any current Russian-speaking countries you would trust in those areas (only if you were very naïve). Are there any Urdu speaking countries? ​ For most of the world, it would be "no".


    Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama.
     
    But "differences".

    There are certainly a lot of shared schema of Franco, Castro, Salazar, Videla, Peron, Pinochet, Batista, et al, even if they claimed they have a different ideology.

    I'm not saying that they are the fair representative of Latin American politics, but when those countries become at least halfway dictatorship (as commonly during the 20th century), much of their politics seems like a family resemblance.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel

    anglosaxon country has a dictatorship in history. I believe it can possibly be 0?

    Edit – “20th century history”.

  741. @songbird
    @AP

    New France was very susceptible to being blockaded and cutoff. Quebec had already been forced to surrender to English privateers in 1629. New France had a tiny population, when compared to the Thirteen Colonies, so they needed to be accommodating to Indians, and enter into defense pacts with them, in order to protect themselves from the British. That is why the term "French and Indian War" exists, as the French strategy was reliant on Indians helping them to defend New France.


    I was just pointing out that mass murder was wrong
     
    A useful portal for touching on the scope of Spain's wars in the New World:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Spain

    I won't attempt a full abstraction, but you can read about "punitive raids", lack of contemporary accounts, the forced relocation of vast populations, conflicts lasting over a hundred years. here is just a snippet, and not the most damning:

    There are no direct sources describing the conquest of the Chajoma by the Spanish but it appears to have been a drawn-out campaign rather than a rapid victory. The only description of the conquest of the Chajoma is a secondary account appearing in the work of Francisco Antonio de Fuentes y Guzmán in the 17th century, long after the event. After the conquest, the inhabitants of the eastern part of the kingdom were relocated by the conquerors to San Pedro Sacatepéquez, including some of the inhabitants of the archaeological site now known as Mixco Viejo (Jilotepeque Viejo). The rest of the population of Mixco Viejo, together with the inhabitants of the western part of the kingdom, were moved to San Martín Jilotepeque.The Chajoma rebelled against the Spanish in 1526, fighting a battle at Ukubʼil, an unidentified site somewhere near the modern towns of San Juan Sacatepéquez and San Pedro Sacatepéquez.

    In the colonial period, most of the surviving Chajoma were forcibly settled in the towns of San Juan Sacatepéquez, San Pedro Sacatepéquez and San Martín Jilotepeque
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_Chiapas

    Spain's strategy, in their more densely-populated areas, seems to have been to force Indians into cities and towns, to effectively create cities and towns by concentrating them. While the strategy in the sparsely-populated America was to remove them to low density areas, often more inland.

    Let's consider the alternative; what would have happened if they had been forced into cities, like in New Spain, but cities with proportionately more Europeans in them - well, it seems obvious that they would have been even more ravished by disease. Disease, which was the real killer, not "mass-killings" - disease working over the coarse of decades, leading to less children and facilitating them being swamped and absorbed into the colonial population.

    Replies: @AP

    A useful portal for touching on the scope of Spain’s wars in the New World:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Spain

    They show that the Spaniards were far less aversive than the English.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acaxee_Rebellion

    – Only a few thousand left when the Spanish came, due to the ravages of disease (numbers comparable to New England).

    – Indians killed about 50 Spaniards (how the first stage of the Pequot and King Phillip Wars started).

    – Spaniards executed the Indian leaders, but rather than massacre the population they “consolidating the Acaxee into a few settlements, appointing their leaders, and attempting to educate Indian children and remove them from the influence of their parents”

    Spain’s strategy, in their more densely-populated areas, seems to have been to force Indians into cities and towns, to effectively create cities and towns by concentrating them.

    In less populated Paraguay they forced them onto missions where they taught them how to read, write, build, make music, etc.

    While the strategy in the sparsely-populated America was to remove them to low density areas, often more inland.

    Or to massacre them into nonexistence.

    Disease, which was the real killer, not “mass-killings” – disease working over the coarse of decades

    Correct, but disease wasn’t a deliberate act.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    Spaniards executed the Indian leaders, but rather than massacre the population
     
    I downloaded the book cited in the Wikipedia article (Susan Deeds, Defiance and deference in Mexico's Colonial North) from Library Genesis and looked up p. 24...and it looks a bit different there (even if it's frustratingly vague about numbers):

    The insurrection was only suppressed in 1603 by the incoming governor, Francisco de Urdiñola, who led an encomendero militia to the rugged summits of the sierra. Capitalizing on former intergroup hostilities, Spaniards had recruited troops from the Tepehuanes and Conchos; there were even some Acaxee allies. Mining activities had come to a virtual standstill during the two years of the insurrection. The campaign was particularly brutal, marked by summary trials and executions of hundreds of captured rebels. Forty-eight of the rebel leaders were executed by hanging and their heads displayed on pikes along the roads. Other rebels were sold into slavery.

     

    However, the rebels also come off pretty badly (their goal had been "to exterminate all Spaniards", and their leader, who had concocted a syncretistic millenarian cult, "even claimed that he could change Spaniards into livestock to make them easier to kill"). And it's mentioned that some Jesuits and the local bishop blamed the rebellion on the economic exploitation of the Indians by encomenderos (so you could cite that as evidence for the positive role of the Catholic church in trying to protect the natives).
    But anyway, imo this shows we should be careful about conducting this discussion on the basis of Wikipedia articles (and yes, obviously I've been guilty of that myself in this thread), they're often pretty reductive of more complex arguments or sometimes even misleading.
  742. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @songbird


    A useful portal for touching on the scope of Spain’s wars in the New World:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Spain
     
    They show that the Spaniards were far less aversive than the English.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acaxee_Rebellion

    - Only a few thousand left when the Spanish came, due to the ravages of disease (numbers comparable to New England).

    - Indians killed about 50 Spaniards (how the first stage of the Pequot and King Phillip Wars started).

    - Spaniards executed the Indian leaders, but rather than massacre the population they "consolidating the Acaxee into a few settlements, appointing their leaders, and attempting to educate Indian children and remove them from the influence of their parents"

    Spain’s strategy, in their more densely-populated areas, seems to have been to force Indians into cities and towns, to effectively create cities and towns by concentrating them.
     
    In less populated Paraguay they forced them onto missions where they taught them how to read, write, build, make music, etc.

    While the strategy in the sparsely-populated America was to remove them to low density areas, often more inland.
     
    Or to massacre them into nonexistence.

    Disease, which was the real killer, not “mass-killings” – disease working over the coarse of decades
     
    Correct, but disease wasn't a deliberate act.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Spaniards executed the Indian leaders, but rather than massacre the population

    I downloaded the book cited in the Wikipedia article (Susan Deeds, Defiance and deference in Mexico’s Colonial North) from Library Genesis and looked up p. 24…and it looks a bit different there (even if it’s frustratingly vague about numbers):

    The insurrection was only suppressed in 1603 by the incoming governor, Francisco de Urdiñola, who led an encomendero militia to the rugged summits of the sierra. Capitalizing on former intergroup hostilities, Spaniards had recruited troops from the Tepehuanes and Conchos; there were even some Acaxee allies. Mining activities had come to a virtual standstill during the two years of the insurrection. The campaign was particularly brutal, marked by summary trials and executions of hundreds of captured rebels. Forty-eight of the rebel leaders were executed by hanging and their heads displayed on pikes along the roads. Other rebels were sold into slavery.

    However, the rebels also come off pretty badly (their goal had been “to exterminate all Spaniards”, and their leader, who had concocted a syncretistic millenarian cult, “even claimed that he could change Spaniards into livestock to make them easier to kill”). And it’s mentioned that some Jesuits and the local bishop blamed the rebellion on the economic exploitation of the Indians by encomenderos (so you could cite that as evidence for the positive role of the Catholic church in trying to protect the natives).
    But anyway, imo this shows we should be careful about conducting this discussion on the basis of Wikipedia articles (and yes, obviously I’ve been guilty of that myself in this thread), they’re often pretty reductive of more complex arguments or sometimes even misleading.

  743. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Whereas to complain that individual people who gamble by going on it is to complain against human
     
    Sorry, I need to elaborate. Of course, the journey is crazy difficult and heartbreaking. I didn't mean to ignore the context, obviously the trafficking chains are a tough nut to crack. And of course there are protocols for genuine real refugees. But we are objecting to the lumping together of the real ones and just seekers of better pastures so to speak. Of course, terrible things can happen and people end up cheated, used. Etc. This btw happens with Slavs, too, but they don't get the publicity.

    I will insist that grown men take responsibility for their actions. They're treated like babies by the liberals. They should in fact be helping others in their own communities. As to human nature as you say, yes, the human nature is to seek better pastures, the problem here is the lack of enforcement. We can't get everything we want, there are boundaries.

    The problem is not that they're gambling as individuals but their entitlement. As in, screw your pathetic country, I just need to pass through here on my way to Germany. And when we rightfully say No, they create physical damage. And then some liberal Swede comes and uses Christmas time when people's hearts are open to virtue signal and lord it over Poland and Lithuania. Please.

    Anyway, I don't want to be cruel during this time.
    Passing you a cup of glintwein...

    But remember that Joseph didn't take his Wife on some dangerous journey, he took Her to his ancestral home to his family. But of course if you ask if kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees but they still encounter life's difficulties. Some got thrown into prison in Belarus. Some grace should be shown without allowing their liberal defenders to dance on our heads.

    And for you as a legal immigrant, given what a pain it is to do go through all the procedures it must be annoying. You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you're Slavic, you are a part of our larger family. The objections for you migrating within the wider Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol, jk).



    To answer about Morgenshtern. He was ok with going with the program and being neutral, he would never talk smack against the rulers like Nemtsov did. But you see... that wasn't enough. What he didn't want is to bend over and to openly supplicate. No artist or no free human being wants to.

    As to the ruling class trying to maintain stability, it's totally understandable. Nobody wants to give up their power position and I also feel that they are afraid of the so called "smuty" (chaos, political and social disorientation, value vacuum). You know how they keep saying " You want it to be like in Ukraine?".

    Hence, the clinging to "values" (the so called skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well, it's not the 90s anymore. But it might be that the ruling power doesn't want to experiment with that especially given all the global and regional instability.

    You know, I had not heard of this Khasbik character before. I was, like, whose child is it in the video? But it turns out he's a real Dag Chad. Lol. Why did you say he's Kadyrov's nemesis, Kadyrov gifted him a Mercedes, is it because Khasbik is popular? I'm noticing all these popular peeps with millions of TikTok views are getting presents. In the video, you can see this SUV or some kind of an armored vehicle that this rich Uzbeki guy gifted to Morgenshtern. What's up with that? Is it because he wants to be his friend or is it just some kind of pokazuha? Funny stuff. I guess Burzhik is the right hangout for these types. Morgenshtern is apparently in Palm Jumeirah, the place with the cool beach condos.

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    hasbik

    Hasbik is Kadyrov’s protege, not his nemesis. But Morgenshtern’s video is with Abduroziq, who is Hasbik’s nemesis.

    Kadyrov wanted to arrange Hasbik to fight with Abduroziq, but it looks their fight might go UFC.

    Anyway don’t you feel perhaps we can say “subtle support” for your theory, when Morgenshtern releases his first video with Abduroziq in this context?

    skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well,

    Yes of course, there is no problem for Russians. But there is a problem there for the rulers. And we know how the balance of power is in the postsoviet space between rulers and subjects, or lack of it.

    kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees

    Distinguishing refugees and economic immigrants should be a first priority. And this partly already completed by the first safe country principle.

    Still even excluding refugees, and looking at economic immigrants – they are mostly poor people, from almost uninhabitable countries.

    This doesn’t mean they should be accepted from the developed country, but I don’t think I can say their decision is necessarily a wrong decision from their point of view.

    If I was a non-skilled worker from Sudan, or a Kurd in Syria, or even a doctor in Lebanon, I would be trying any such ways to become the favorite neighbor of German Reader, and maybe even could be desperate enough to be scammed by Lukashenko for this illegal quest.

    Again, it’s nothing about immigration policy. Just I’m saying a more trivial point, that they seemed often “reasonable” to me. When Vietnamese immigrants are dying from suffocation to go to England ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_lorry_deaths ), this is not sensible, but at the same time you can see how you would ignore these risks.

    Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol,

    Thanks, I’d like to be called that. However, you know by Western standards, my political views would be mostly considered centre-right-wing at best. Which I would prefer not to be called, but this is where my opinions would be categorized.

    That’s not to say the old meaning of the word “liberal”. In the 19th century, liberalism had been a consistent and well developed political philosophy, with intelligent supporters. But since the middle 20th century, word has started to refer to people’s position in a relative political spectrum, and can include some of the less sensible views of today.

    You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you’re Slavic, you are a part of our larger family.

    That would be wonderful. I would love you as Minister of Immigration of a G7 country, or perhaps leader Switzerland or Monaco.

    But in reality this if you are easy for slavs, who are EU citizens like Poles or Czechs. For Russians Belarusians, Ukrainians, it’s more like we are being in the same position as Argentinians, Brazilians, Turks, or Mexicans, if we are lucky.

    We are definitely usually treated better than people from the third world countries, e.g. with Filipino or Nigerian passports, those people who can be interrogated in the airport. But you are still paying exploitatively high fees for anything like coronavirus tests and visa applications, and there is a possibility of receiving visa rejections.

    That said, I can’t feel cheated, as I’m in many ways more privileged than the vast majority of legal immigrants, and even more privileged than native citizens of many first world countries. I’m not in any positions to complain about the fees. I also feel like last time is a Skripal case, they didn’t seem to change policies in ways which some people worried.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    But Morgenshtern’s video is with Abduroziq, who is Hasbik’s nemesis.

    Kadyrov wanted to arrange Hasbik to fight with Abduroziq, but it looks their fight might go UFC.

    Anyway don’t you feel perhaps we can say “subtle support” for your theory, when Morgenshtern releases his first video with Abduroziq in this context?
     
    Oh, if it's the other fellow then indeed that changes things and that's a whole new angle. That's almost a little bit provocative. :) But you see how subtle it still is... Morgentshtern doesn't state anything openly, just for some reason invites Abduroziq. He's very good at these subtle gestures and light mockery. It's almost similar to how poets in the 80s in the Soviet Union used figurative language to express dissident thoughts.

    Oh, no, now I'm a little worried about Abduroziq because Khasbik is ultra-masculine and could win. Anyway, is it ok from the ethical POV to incite little people into fighting an MMA match to make a spectacle out of it?

    However, you know by Western standards, my political views would be mostly considered centre-right-wing at best. Which I would prefer not to be called, but this is where my opinions would be categorized.
     
    You know, it's a little bit like "a liberal boomer racist", typically some dude from Russia, who listens to Western music, disliked communism and supports the West, but has "racist" ideas about immigration and the like. You're just a younger version of that type. Don't know if you've heard of the one Artem Troitsky, who left Russia and is very pro-Western but when it comes to immigration he holds very strict views and all the so called "liberalism" goes out the window.

    I would love you as Minister of Immigration of a G7 country, or perhaps leader Switzerland or Monaco.
     
    Well, countries such as Switzerland and Monaco... maybe we shouldn't disturb their peace, but for the US, Canada and EU as a whole Eastern Slavs would be a drop in the ocean.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  744. @Thulean Friend
    I'm staying in London right now, visiting relatives. A few impressions.

    - It is considerably less clean than Stockholm, even allowing for size differences. I stay in a residential area which has many expensive cars and houses, but the attention to detail that I'd find even in fairly ordinary Swedish neighborhoods is strikingly missing.

    - The stereotype of the polite Englishman is still true to some extent. Swedes are non-confrontational, but I still notice a slight improvement in public manners. Being called "love" by women and "mate" by men on a casual basis took some time to adjust to.

    - Food is insanely cheaper. It's literally half the cost. There is also much greater amounts of food from across the world. Sweden is much more restrictive; we barely even let Danish meat into our country on fears of salmonella and similar issues. Anglos clearly have a more liberal outlook to food imports, as in other things in life.

    - Asians are everywhere, at least downtown. I see so many WM/AF couples it's pretty hilarious. Why go to East Asia when you can go to London? I see them in Stockholm too, but it's on a different scale here.

    - Housing prices are insane given the cramped areas people live in. Even proper "houses" are dwarves by Swedish standards. Of course, London is much more coveted by global elites so there are understandable reasons for this.

    - The infrastructure for cyclists is a complete joke. There are almost no seperate bikelanes like in Stockholm and I see very few cyclists whatsoever. I don't blame them, I wouldn't want to share my space with cars either.

    - Parks are quite pleasant, but ultimately too heavy on grass. I miss conifers and proper forests like back home. I grew up not far from Blackeberg and we have a real forest there. Still within Stockholm municipality.

    Overall, I'm quite happy I live in Sweden and not in the UK. One major advantage London has is that it definitely feels more cosmopolitan, whereas Stockholm is obviously more provincial. But QoL in Stockholm is unquestionably greater. I will go to Berlin hopefully next year as I have not been in a while and then round up with Paris to do a full comparison. I am particularly interested in Paris given Anne Hidalgo's radical work to make it far less car-centric, which can hopefully work as an inspiration for many other cities.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry

    proper “houses”

    But houses in bourgeois areas of London, are very large inside, as constructed mainly in the 19th century with conditions of extreme wealth. This was when in the 19th century, the bourgeoisie would hire servants often living inside their houses. (Of course, in workers’ areas, of London they were building smaller.)

    I would say the urban planning and architecture of those houses, is possibly the most attractive of any in the world. There is a balance of private and public space in those areas which seems almost perfect.

    this issue affects the 2nd and 3rd world just as much, if not more so (just ask your average Turk

    Yes this is very true. Russia absorbs most postsoviet immigrants.

    If you look in Africa, for example, Egypt has up to 4 million immigrants from Sudan.

    However, my point was about the situation of Mexico as a transit country. This is including such things as the train of immigrants that goes across Mexico, to try to enter the USA.

    The majority of immigrants on this path experience violence. 1/3 of the women are raped. Much of the immigration is controlled by mafia.

    There are stories where hundreds of these immigrants are beheaded by narcotics cartels.

    Two weeks ago, 54 immigrants from Guatemala were killed in a train catastrophe. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/10/witnesses-recount-horrors-mexico-crash-that-killed-dozens-of-migrants

    So here is a situation that needs to be resolved in Mexico as a transit country, and in Southern border between Mexico-Guatemala.

    Trump’s rhetoric about “Mexico is going to pay for a wall”, could have alienated the Mexican elite.

    But it’s a problem in Mexico, that needs to be solved with the Mexican elites. If USA wants to improve this situation, one of the areas (aside from legalizing certain drugs to reduce the blackmarket which feeds cartels) to improve borders inside Mexico itself.

    The wall will need to begin at Guatemala.

  745. sher singh says:

    https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Supreme_sacrifice

    Shaheedi Divas, Martyrdom Anniv of Younger Princes (Sahibzadey) of Guru Gobind Singh
    6 & 8 years old bricked alive & then beheaded. Knees and elbows cut where bricks wouldn’t fit. Battle ready warriors whom the Guru sacrificed for the Khalsa।।

    Their martyrdom is celebrated in an annual fair, and throughout the month of Poh Sikh families will sleep on the floor, wear simple clothes & eat simple food in rememberance||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  746. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    hasbik
     
    Hasbik is Kadyrov's protege, not his nemesis. But Morgenshtern's video is with Abduroziq, who is Hasbik's nemesis.

    Kadyrov wanted to arrange Hasbik to fight with Abduroziq, but it looks their fight might go UFC.

    Anyway don't you feel perhaps we can say "subtle support" for your theory, when Morgenshtern releases his first video with Abduroziq in this context?


    skrepy). Russians are intelligent, but who knows how they could handle pluralism. I believe they could handle it well,

     

    Yes of course, there is no problem for Russians. But there is a problem there for the rulers. And we know how the balance of power is in the postsoviet space between rulers and subjects, or lack of it.

    kindness should be shown, then, of course, yes, but to real refugees. Most of those people may not even be real refugees

     

    Distinguishing refugees and economic immigrants should be a first priority. And this partly already completed by the first safe country principle.

    Still even excluding refugees, and looking at economic immigrants - they are mostly poor people, from almost uninhabitable countries.

    This doesn't mean they should be accepted from the developed country, but I don't think I can say their decision is necessarily a wrong decision from their point of view.

    If I was a non-skilled worker from Sudan, or a Kurd in Syria, or even a doctor in Lebanon, I would be trying any such ways to become the favorite neighbor of German Reader, and maybe even could be desperate enough to be scammed by Lukashenko for this illegal quest.

    Again, it's nothing about immigration policy. Just I'm saying a more trivial point, that they seemed often "reasonable" to me. When Vietnamese immigrants are dying from suffocation to go to England ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_lorry_deaths ), this is not sensible, but at the same time you can see how you would ignore these risks.


    Western civilization are very low or non-existant (even with you being so liberal, lol,
     
    Thanks, I'd like to be called that. However, you know by Western standards, my political views would be mostly considered centre-right-wing at best. Which I would prefer not to be called, but this is where my opinions would be categorized.

    That's not to say the old meaning of the word "liberal". In the 19th century, liberalism had been a consistent and well developed political philosophy, with intelligent supporters. But since the middle 20th century, word has started to refer to people's position in a relative political spectrum, and can include some of the less sensible views of today.


    You feel cheated. Btw, do not compare yourself to the rest of the world, you’re Slavic, you are a part of our larger family.
     
    That would be wonderful. I would love you as Minister of Immigration of a G7 country, or perhaps leader Switzerland or Monaco.

    But in reality this if you are easy for slavs, who are EU citizens like Poles or Czechs. For Russians Belarusians, Ukrainians, it's more like we are being in the same position as Argentinians, Brazilians, Turks, or Mexicans, if we are lucky.

    We are definitely usually treated better than people from the third world countries, e.g. with Filipino or Nigerian passports, those people who can be interrogated in the airport. But you are still paying exploitatively high fees for anything like coronavirus tests and visa applications, and there is a possibility of receiving visa rejections.

    That said, I can't feel cheated, as I'm in many ways more privileged than the vast majority of legal immigrants, and even more privileged than native citizens of many first world countries. I'm not in any positions to complain about the fees. I also feel like last time is a Skripal case, they didn't seem to change policies in ways which some people worried.

    Replies: @LatW

    But Morgenshtern’s video is with Abduroziq, who is Hasbik’s nemesis.

    Kadyrov wanted to arrange Hasbik to fight with Abduroziq, but it looks their fight might go UFC.

    Anyway don’t you feel perhaps we can say “subtle support” for your theory, when Morgenshtern releases his first video with Abduroziq in this context?

    Oh, if it’s the other fellow then indeed that changes things and that’s a whole new angle. That’s almost a little bit provocative. 🙂 But you see how subtle it still is… Morgentshtern doesn’t state anything openly, just for some reason invites Abduroziq. He’s very good at these subtle gestures and light mockery. It’s almost similar to how poets in the 80s in the Soviet Union used figurative language to express dissident thoughts.

    Oh, no, now I’m a little worried about Abduroziq because Khasbik is ultra-masculine and could win. Anyway, is it ok from the ethical POV to incite little people into fighting an MMA match to make a spectacle out of it?

    However, you know by Western standards, my political views would be mostly considered centre-right-wing at best. Which I would prefer not to be called, but this is where my opinions would be categorized.

    You know, it’s a little bit like “a liberal boomer racist”, typically some dude from Russia, who listens to Western music, disliked communism and supports the West, but has “racist” ideas about immigration and the like. You’re just a younger version of that type. Don’t know if you’ve heard of the one Artem Troitsky, who left Russia and is very pro-Western but when it comes to immigration he holds very strict views and all the so called “liberalism” goes out the window.

    I would love you as Minister of Immigration of a G7 country, or perhaps leader Switzerland or Monaco.

    Well, countries such as Switzerland and Monaco… maybe we shouldn’t disturb their peace, but for the US, Canada and EU as a whole Eastern Slavs would be a drop in the ocean.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    You’re just a younger version of that type
     
    I wouldn't say my views (for little anyone should be interested in them), are like that, as I am not automatically "pro-Western".

    I'm mostly apolitical. Just I think there are very valuable things we need to secure from politics (civil liberty, privacy, transparency, anti-corruption, property rights, balance of public/private) which are still relatively better appreciated in some Western countries, but this is not guaranteed by being in a Western bloc.

    We know America is often threatening to covert away from these valuable things. While in theory, Russia could have become such a country where power would respect your rights, and act as a servant, even without needing to join Western blocs, but obviously it has become naïve to expect this after more than a century of Chekistan, and even not promising antecedents in the Russian Empire.


    such as Switzerland and Monaco… maybe we shouldn’t disturb their peace, but for the US, Canada and EU as a whole Eastern Slavs would be a drop in the ocean.
     
    Lol, to be fair, Switzerland and Monaco are currently end destinations, of Russian money. They are beneficiaries if anything of current dynamics.

    Btw, where he lived, that’s a nice house in a nice address.
     
    AP has already written. Tverskoy boulevard. Central Moscow.

    At least your financial health cannot be too bad, if you are lucky to be neighbor of one of AP's landholdings. But mental health is another reality.

  747. @Emil Nikola Richard
    For those who might be interested yet do not have a disposable two hours to devote to Huberman and David Buss I listened to the entire thing and made a few notes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXzTbCEqCJc

    1. Male sex status == how much attention do you attract in sum in a crowd. **
    2. Men cheat when they can because they can if they can. Women cheat because they are not satisfied with him.
    3. Cuckoldry frequencies ~.02. Nothing like the pick up artistry industry claim.
    4. Questions for the confronted cheater:
    A. Men ask "did you fuck him?"
    B. Women ask "do you love her?"
    5. All freedom constraints sourced in jealousy; freedom constraints are on the scale of relationship violence.
    6. If she bruises her arm smacking you on the head with a frying pan, you are the one who is going to get arrested if somebody calls the police.
    7. Named sex predators: Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Cosby. **
    8. Stalking works as a mating strategy as a last chance long shot method 15% success rate.


    **REMARKS

    i. Buss used the words manipulate and manipulative a surprising to me number of times; I might title this discussion Mating and Manipulation by Evolution Psychology Professor.
    ii. The alpha monkey here is (was) Anatoly Karlin in Buss's terms of attracting attention in a group. That we are apparently not even worth it as internet wing men might give some pause for thought.
    iii. Did Bill Cosby's lawyers succeed in getting his conviction voided? I have lost track.
    iv. I looked for a transcript but could not find it. Huberman occasionally has the greatest information which is hardly worth listening to all the low signal fraction of his podcast. If anybody knows where transcripts can be linked I would really appreciate it.
    v. Buss's book is here:

    https://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Psychology-New-Science-Mind-dp-1138088617/dp/1138088617/

    Not cheap. I found a torrent copy. If it's worth space on my book shelf I will buy one. No idea if Buss is a member of the pirate party or not. My guess is he must be. This paper is free to down load and presents his finding which he considers the most important--mating similarities across cultures are far more numerous and significant than differences.

    https://labs.la.utexas.edu/buss/files/2015/10/buss-1989-sex-differences-in-human-mate-preferences.pdf

    OK one last thing--the first time he did research in China virginity was an absolute requirement for a Chinese woman to be considered blue ribbon marriage stock. In the cities in China this is no longer the case.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Point 1 was a pretty good indicator, I’ll keep that one.

    Point 8 — I would say 15% is an excellent shot. Just stalk 6-7 women and you have your relationship. While we’re on the topic, I recently read that Robert Pattinson, the vampire actor, after being stalked by some fangirl invited her for a dinner tete-a-tete and proceeded to tell her about his actual, somewhat miserable life. I got the impression she had faded him by the end of the meal. Also, if memory serves, the blonde ABBA girl actually entered a somewhat longer relationship with one of her stalkers. So stalking might work, I guess? Anyway, by contrast, walking up to a woman and charmingly asking for a date seems to have a success rate of 1-5% or so, judging from what the field experts say.

    The rest seems like fairly basic points. I wonder about the 2% cuckoldry rate, which might be somewhat low. We could easily find out by adding such a test to the standard test battery for infants, of course. (Indeed, a weaker test for non-fatherhood is already implied by some tests like blood group.) But for some reason we don’t.

    While I haven’t read the book you mention, and haven’t kept up with the field in recent years, the most interesting work in the genre that I’ve found was Sperm Wars, which had many provocative statements, generally backed by the literature. I wonder to what extent it turned out to be correct.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Pericles


    I would say 15% is an excellent shot. Just stalk 6-7 women and you have your relationship.
     
    Maybe not P=.15 for random selection of Male and Female.

    More like .15 of male female relationships involve male who is goon and female who is dumb. Not endorsed as desirable outcome.
  748. @German_reader
    @utu


    Once you put much effort into soul-saving business the likelihood that you follow with genocide greatly diminishes.
     
    Did you even read my comments? My argument was that actually some Calvinists went to extraordinary lengths to convert and assimilate Indians, going so far as to translate the entire Bible into Algonquian (with the help of native collaborators) and creating a system of towns where Christianized Indians enjoyed some kind of self-government. Now maybe you could argue that this more humane approach was eventually given up (as I wrote I'd need to look more into why and how exactly this happened, since I don't know that much about the issues...but tbh my strong impression is neither do you), but its very existence is proof that there was no straight way from Calvinism and its theological beliefs to massacring Indians.
    And drawing a straight line from 17th century Calvinist settlers (whose mental world is very different from our own) to "Sailerites" is also not very convincing imo.

    The moment after baptism a Savage ceased to be seen as a Savage and was in theory given all the rights and protections afforded to Christian Catholics.
     
    In theory, in practice the vast mass of Amerindians in Spanish America was clearly kept in a subordinate position to the Spanish settlers. But I will admit that the Catholic church did take at least some steps to protect them.
    More generally I would even agree that there is such a thing as "pathological nationalism". However, the problem I have with your entire line of argument is that today we're suffering from the opposite problem, an insane excess of universalism that is rapidly transforming almost all Western countries into something completely unrecognizable. Do you ever have to say something about that (apart from insinuating it may have been the Jews, who supposedly targeted countries like Sweden for their support of the Palestinians)? About the extreme pro-immigration position of the current pope, which is sure to eventually turn all Europeans into dwindling minorities in their own countries, if implemented? And these views are almost utterly dominant throughout the West today. We're not in the 1930s or 1940s anymore, the ethno-racialists you love to condemn have zero institutional power. So while I don't dismiss your perspective totally, it seems pretty one-sided to me.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    About the extreme pro-immigration position of the current pope, which is sure to eventually turn all Europeans into dwindling minorities in their own countries, if implemented? And these views are almost utterly dominant throughout the West today.

    But if the pope was in a position to implement his immigration agenda, he would also be in a position to implement the other part of it, dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world. And the part about stopping Europeans aborting their children, and reducing the use of contraception.

    It seems that the Church still teaches the view that the family rather than the individual is the basic political unit, and the state should primarily be family orientated. (They probably have to keep some of these teachings quiet nowadays in Western countries, because they are so retro.) So I think if the pope’s teaching in general was implemented, the migration would stop due to political pressure and probably reverse, with Europeans emigrating again as they put more of their available resources into raising children.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world.
     
    imo Francis' comments on the causes of poverty are pure demagoguery, it's just endless rants about greed, as if everything could be reduced to character flaws and the sins of profit-oriented capitalists. His comments also reinforce the idea that "we" (people in the global North collectively") are only rich, because "they" (people in the global South) are exploited and kept in poverty, which imo is a really pernicious view and potentially encourages all kind of revenge fantasies. Also, what would mean "dismantling the neo-liberal economic system" even mean in practice? Debt forgiveness for poorer countries, making it possible for them to pursue protectionist policies to build up industries etc.? Ok, some of that certainly would be sensible in any case, but what reason is there to expect that everything will then be fine, given ingrained cultures of corruption and, to be frank, lack of human capital in many global South societies?
    Regarding abortion, personally I'm not a fan of it (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized and does raise some questions about the nature of our societies), but imo it's very questionable that it could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree, and the Catholic church there seems to some extent to have moved on from the issue anyway. And that applies even more to contraception, where official Catholic teachings are simply seen as ridiculous by most people in Europe (and imo with good reason, tbh "Breed and multiply, God will take care of it" is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted).
    So I don't think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality...but that's unlikely to happen anyway. imo it's far more likely that the Church in Western Europe will further accomodate itself to progressive sensibilities on many sexual and social issues, but focus on promotion of immigration and antiracism (and here it has significant lobbying powers), which is in line with the hegemonic culture and brings a certain prestige and relevance.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Coconuts, @Max Demian

  749. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    In addition, the Japanese banned the practices of extreme punishments and eunuchs around the same time as Europeans, far earlier than the Chinese who had it till the last day of Qing dynasty in 1912.

     

    That's interesting. I heard someone say that China was the only other society (other than European) to have a kind of indigenous effort to eliminate slavery. (Guess it was a kind of false start?)

    I'm inclined to think that castrati were one of the most barbaric things things that ever happened in Europe. But probably barbarians would have never done that. TBH, I think it speaks ill of the Church that they sanctioned it. Though, in a certain sense, I wonder if it wouldn't best be described as a foreign custom. Good on Italian nationalists that they banned it.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    That’s interesting. I heard someone say that China was the only other society (other than European) to have a kind of indigenous effort to eliminate slavery. (Guess it was a kind of false start?)

    Yes, Imperial China was one of the first societies to eliminate slavery, and the first to develop full meritocracy during Song 宋 (11-13 CE). There was not even an under-caste like Burakumin.

    Song is perhaps like PLC, liberal institutions but weak military. Slavery, along with despotic institutions, was bought back by Mongol Manchu conquest.

    In effect PRC is still a Mongol Manchu dynasty (its not a coincidence that Communist Bloc was the former territory of Mongol Empire). You see that I defended Mao’s foreign policy decisions as not entirely insane. But domestically he treated the Chinese people as his personal property; in his personal gambit with the Soviets and US.

    But who knows, maybe if not for him, China would be a Greater Taiwan as an American satellite. Yesterday was his birthday and held as a holiday in PRC.

    • Thanks: songbird, sher singh
  750. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    About the extreme pro-immigration position of the current pope, which is sure to eventually turn all Europeans into dwindling minorities in their own countries, if implemented? And these views are almost utterly dominant throughout the West today.
     
    But if the pope was in a position to implement his immigration agenda, he would also be in a position to implement the other part of it, dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world. And the part about stopping Europeans aborting their children, and reducing the use of contraception.

    It seems that the Church still teaches the view that the family rather than the individual is the basic political unit, and the state should primarily be family orientated. (They probably have to keep some of these teachings quiet nowadays in Western countries, because they are so retro.) So I think if the pope's teaching in general was implemented, the migration would stop due to political pressure and probably reverse, with Europeans emigrating again as they put more of their available resources into raising children.

    Replies: @German_reader

    dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world.

    imo Francis’ comments on the causes of poverty are pure demagoguery, it’s just endless rants about greed, as if everything could be reduced to character flaws and the sins of profit-oriented capitalists. His comments also reinforce the idea that “we” (people in the global North collectively”) are only rich, because “they” (people in the global South) are exploited and kept in poverty, which imo is a really pernicious view and potentially encourages all kind of revenge fantasies. Also, what would mean “dismantling the neo-liberal economic system” even mean in practice? Debt forgiveness for poorer countries, making it possible for them to pursue protectionist policies to build up industries etc.? Ok, some of that certainly would be sensible in any case, but what reason is there to expect that everything will then be fine, given ingrained cultures of corruption and, to be frank, lack of human capital in many global South societies?
    Regarding abortion, personally I’m not a fan of it (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized and does raise some questions about the nature of our societies), but imo it’s very questionable that it could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree, and the Catholic church there seems to some extent to have moved on from the issue anyway. And that applies even more to contraception, where official Catholic teachings are simply seen as ridiculous by most people in Europe (and imo with good reason, tbh “Breed and multiply, God will take care of it” is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted).
    So I don’t think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality…but that’s unlikely to happen anyway. imo it’s far more likely that the Church in Western Europe will further accomodate itself to progressive sensibilities on many sexual and social issues, but focus on promotion of immigration and antiracism (and here it has significant lobbying powers), which is in line with the hegemonic culture and brings a certain prestige and relevance.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...with good reason “Breed and multiply, God will take care of it” is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted.
     
    Why are breed and multiply thrown together so facetiously? One can have a family, the society can be built around families, without necessarily overwhelming the ecology. If you do the numbers, it is what would happen with a pro-family policy: a relatively stable population with less impact on the environment.

    Massive migration has worse ecological and other consequences. It suppresses natives' family formation, destroys cities and with it the culture, it is costly, etc...

    Pope Francis doesn't wish well to Europe and in a very deep sense he is an anti-European. It is the first time that has happened in the Catholic Church, it was intentional. His economic musings are throw-away lines tinged with pathological charity that is not meant seriously.

    We still underestimate the systematic take-over by the uber-liberalism in the last 5-10 years: there was something very conscious about it, very deliberate. It has succeeded so fast that it reached the usual ideological cul-de-sac quicker than usually. Now what? Given the full power that the liberals have they naturally double-down on their ideas - but it has moved so fast that they are isolated. Not quite year zero yet with divinity festivals and guillotine carriages, but some of the liberal fanatics are not far off.

    Is is not fixable, there will be either massive enforcement or a reaction. Western liberals need an external war to consolidate or distract, but where and how?

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    So I don’t think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality

     

    You are rejecting Catholic Social Teaching because you don't think it would contribute anything to the solution of any of Western Europe's ills, because your own (eth-nat?) analysis is supposed to contribute something of value? Because it is widely taken seriously by populations in Western Europe?

    Is there a need to answer these questions?

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Max Demian
    @German_reader


    (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized
     
    Isn't it, though, lower than the abortion rate in the US?

    imo it’s very questionable that it [abortion] could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree,
     
    Presumably you meant "restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already" or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it? In fact, I distinctly recall reading, sometime within the past decade, an Op-Ed in the New York Times that specifically cited France (if memory serves) as an example of a country with greater restrictions on abortion than the US (which the author argued were too lax).

    You make many cogent points in this, as well as many of the other comments of yours in this thread.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Reg Cæsar

  751. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    I was mainly trying to express my prejudice against salads.

    I quite like cabbage, when it has been heavily boiled, and denuded of its vitamins.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    There are plenty of ways to eat kale or spinach without salads.

    I am personally in favor of the frittata for breakfast approach. Some bacon or sausage along with a sauteed onion and garlic, kale or spinach, maybe some mushroom in egg topped with cheese and finished in the broiler till crisp and bubbly is a kingly breakfast. Especially with a slab of buttery toast and coffee.

    Delicious and nutritious!

    (Hmmm. This is apparently what happens when I comment just after breakfast…)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    I do pretty much the same thing, only all on a skillet. Towards the end, before I add some shredded cheese on top, to indeed end up wit a beautiful gooey mess, I put about and ounce and a half of water into the skillet (around the perimeter of the eggs) and let it all baste for a couple of minutes, until the cheese all melts. No need for an oven in the process? Of course you can use whatever vegetables you like, I always seem to find room for at least onions and peppers. It's kind of a peasants version of the omelet, and is called "яйця по-хлопському" in Ukrainian (eggs cooked boy style).

    , @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I'll admit to liking celery, when it is added into different things: eggs, or pasta, or mashed potatoes, etc.

    Occasionally, I've gotten the impulse to try to add dandelions, but I haven't done it so far. Don't know whether you need to get the early ones, or not.

    I know some people who eat budding ferns, which I think transcends rabbit food to go directly to herbivorous dinosaur food.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  752. @Pericles
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Point 1 was a pretty good indicator, I'll keep that one.

    Point 8 -- I would say 15% is an excellent shot. Just stalk 6-7 women and you have your relationship. While we're on the topic, I recently read that Robert Pattinson, the vampire actor, after being stalked by some fangirl invited her for a dinner tete-a-tete and proceeded to tell her about his actual, somewhat miserable life. I got the impression she had faded him by the end of the meal. Also, if memory serves, the blonde ABBA girl actually entered a somewhat longer relationship with one of her stalkers. So stalking might work, I guess? Anyway, by contrast, walking up to a woman and charmingly asking for a date seems to have a success rate of 1-5% or so, judging from what the field experts say.

    The rest seems like fairly basic points. I wonder about the 2% cuckoldry rate, which might be somewhat low. We could easily find out by adding such a test to the standard test battery for infants, of course. (Indeed, a weaker test for non-fatherhood is already implied by some tests like blood group.) But for some reason we don't.

    While I haven't read the book you mention, and haven't kept up with the field in recent years, the most interesting work in the genre that I've found was Sperm Wars, which had many provocative statements, generally backed by the literature. I wonder to what extent it turned out to be correct.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    I would say 15% is an excellent shot. Just stalk 6-7 women and you have your relationship.

    Maybe not P=.15 for random selection of Male and Female.

    More like .15 of male female relationships involve male who is goon and female who is dumb. Not endorsed as desirable outcome.

  753. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    institutions and customs inherited from Spain

     

    I wasn't saying this in that post. Just that conquistadors are a long term cause of this disaster zone.

    But I think this is an area to investigate - why are the countries which inherit customs and institutions from the Spanish Empire and Portuguese Empire, all having badly designed customs and institutions.

    For example, in political/legal frameworks. Which latino country does not have a dictatorship at least for some time during the 20th century? Not Spain or Portugal, or most of Latin America.

    By comparison, which anglosaxon country has a dictatorship in history. I believe it can possibly be 0?

    It can look like a simplistic divide. But being able to create such a simple divide, is probably indication of an area to investigate. Not that I can write many answers, but I would hope historians, political and legal theorists, notice and investigate this.

    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.

    If you look at any country where you would want to emigrate or invest, is there any current Spanish-speaking country where you would trust the political, legal or property rights regime?

    That's not to say Spanish-speaking countries are especially bad there. Are there any current Russian-speaking countries you would trust in those areas (only if you were very naïve). Are there any Urdu speaking countries? ​ For most of the world, it would be "no".


    Latin America has experimented with all sorts of legal and economic systems, from hardcore communism in Cuba to ultraliberalism in Chile and Panama.
     
    But "differences".

    There are certainly a lot of shared schema of Franco, Castro, Salazar, Videla, Peron, Pinochet, Batista, et al, even if they claimed they have a different ideology.

    I'm not saying that they are the fair representative of Latin American politics, but when those countries become at least halfway dictatorship (as commonly during the 20th century), much of their politics seems like a family resemblance.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Mikel

    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.

    Jamaica, Zimbabwe or Nigeria inherited Anglosaxon customs and institutions but I don’t see very good results.

    To be clear, whatever Spanish cultural heritage Latin Americans received from Spain was not conducive to great prosperity. Spain was late to the industrial revolution and never achieved the levels of economic progress of its northern neighbors. Latin American independence leaders, influenced by the Enlightenment ideas, were themselves very critical of Spain’s backwardness in their writings and hoped to create more prosperous societies than the mother country. But eventually the contrary happened. They became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it’s too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.

    In social matters there are always multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries in Europe or Asia. If this was a natural sciences question, when you examine these countries’ specifics there is a certain correlation that stands out so much that there wouldn’t be any debate about its validity. But this isn’t natural sciences so you’re allowed to approach it with moral priors and you might have already decided that HBD cannot possibly play any role because HBD is morally wrong.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    HBD
     
    As far as I could see "HBD" was just a meme from this blog or forum. It's not used outside here.

    If you mean that there is a genetic explanation (average genetics across a population) for the situation in Latin America. Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it's more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one.

    Putin will be genetically Northern European, but property rights, civil liberty, investment climate, etc, in Russian politics, can be opposite of Finland or Norway.

    Sanna Marin might not be that genetically far from Putin (although she has beauty genes, which Putin does not). But the political responses will be the opposite.

    Trujillo , Castro, Franco, Pinochet, et al, have Latin genetics, while Chávez has a native America genetics. I'm not sure it has much change of their politics.

    Even when you can't separate culture, there is North and South Korea.

    Israel's population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England. The government is not going to expropriate your company.

    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it's obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.


    multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries i

     

    Sure there are significant differences of prosperity. Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, are the same GDP per capita as Russia. These are high income countries by the World Bank classification. Guatemala and Bolivia are lower.

    However, if you compare colonies where there are stable installations of English law or property rights.

    The difference of cluster is significant, even with diverse populations. There are many variables. But the significant one for something like GDP per capita is political and legal architecture that creates an environment for 21st century investment.

    https://i.imgur.com/8Zvpipi.jpg


    became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it’s too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.
     
    Sure, it's not going to productive for those countries to complain about events of several centuries ago. It could be more useful for study of countries like Estonia, where there is a basis for investment climate and legal, political stability developed in the last only 30 years. Spain itself is an example where they can see some extent of positive improvement of political frameworks the last 40 years, although it's still a political system that seems more repressive than you would expect for Western Europe (e.g. recent Catalan independence repressions).

    Although in those cases there is the EU to carefully invest and advise underdeveloped countries, and there is no equivalent of the EU to help guide the underdeveloped countries of Latin America. Maybe you can say "USA", but there is a little mixed history of success, considering stories like "Operation Condor".

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @Mikel

  754. @Yellowface Anon
    @AP

    How distant is Neapolitan from Venetian? (This is rhetorical)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I would say–

    High German : Viennese, Bavarian or Swabian
    ::
    Standard Mandarin : Sichuan Mandarin (i.e. mostly understandable)

    High German : Dutch, Flemish, Swiss German
    ::
    Standard Mandarin : Wu or Xiang (very different but not as far as Cantonese)

    Dutch also doesn’t have the dative and genitive cases in German so grammatically simpler.

    *Standard Mandarin is in German Hochchinesisch “High Chinese”. Probably because there can be said to be an accent-free version of Mandarin or German (but not English which is much more polycentric).

  755. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    There are plenty of ways to eat kale or spinach without salads.

    I am personally in favor of the frittata for breakfast approach. Some bacon or sausage along with a sauteed onion and garlic, kale or spinach, maybe some mushroom in egg topped with cheese and finished in the broiler till crisp and bubbly is a kingly breakfast. Especially with a slab of buttery toast and coffee.

    Delicious and nutritious!

    (Hmmm. This is apparently what happens when I comment just after breakfast...)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I do pretty much the same thing, only all on a skillet. Towards the end, before I add some shredded cheese on top, to indeed end up wit a beautiful gooey mess, I put about and ounce and a half of water into the skillet (around the perimeter of the eggs) and let it all baste for a couple of minutes, until the cheese all melts. No need for an oven in the process? Of course you can use whatever vegetables you like, I always seem to find room for at least onions and peppers. It’s kind of a peasants version of the omelet, and is called “яйця по-хлопському” in Ukrainian (eggs cooked boy style).

  756. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world.
     
    imo Francis' comments on the causes of poverty are pure demagoguery, it's just endless rants about greed, as if everything could be reduced to character flaws and the sins of profit-oriented capitalists. His comments also reinforce the idea that "we" (people in the global North collectively") are only rich, because "they" (people in the global South) are exploited and kept in poverty, which imo is a really pernicious view and potentially encourages all kind of revenge fantasies. Also, what would mean "dismantling the neo-liberal economic system" even mean in practice? Debt forgiveness for poorer countries, making it possible for them to pursue protectionist policies to build up industries etc.? Ok, some of that certainly would be sensible in any case, but what reason is there to expect that everything will then be fine, given ingrained cultures of corruption and, to be frank, lack of human capital in many global South societies?
    Regarding abortion, personally I'm not a fan of it (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized and does raise some questions about the nature of our societies), but imo it's very questionable that it could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree, and the Catholic church there seems to some extent to have moved on from the issue anyway. And that applies even more to contraception, where official Catholic teachings are simply seen as ridiculous by most people in Europe (and imo with good reason, tbh "Breed and multiply, God will take care of it" is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted).
    So I don't think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality...but that's unlikely to happen anyway. imo it's far more likely that the Church in Western Europe will further accomodate itself to progressive sensibilities on many sexual and social issues, but focus on promotion of immigration and antiracism (and here it has significant lobbying powers), which is in line with the hegemonic culture and brings a certain prestige and relevance.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Coconuts, @Max Demian

    …with good reason “Breed and multiply, God will take care of it” is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted.

    Why are breed and multiply thrown together so facetiously? One can have a family, the society can be built around families, without necessarily overwhelming the ecology. If you do the numbers, it is what would happen with a pro-family policy: a relatively stable population with less impact on the environment.

    Massive migration has worse ecological and other consequences. It suppresses natives’ family formation, destroys cities and with it the culture, it is costly, etc…

    Pope Francis doesn’t wish well to Europe and in a very deep sense he is an anti-European. It is the first time that has happened in the Catholic Church, it was intentional. His economic musings are throw-away lines tinged with pathological charity that is not meant seriously.

    We still underestimate the systematic take-over by the uber-liberalism in the last 5-10 years: there was something very conscious about it, very deliberate. It has succeeded so fast that it reached the usual ideological cul-de-sac quicker than usually. Now what? Given the full power that the liberals have they naturally double-down on their ideas – but it has moved so fast that they are isolated. Not quite year zero yet with divinity festivals and guillotine carriages, but some of the liberal fanatics are not far off.

    Is is not fixable, there will be either massive enforcement or a reaction. Western liberals need an external war to consolidate or distract, but where and how?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Beckow


    If you do the numbers, it is what would happen with a pro-family policy: a relatively stable population with less impact on the environment.
     
    Pro-family policies in Europe should have the aim to make it easier for women to have 2-3 children, which seems to be the commonly stated preference. However, the mentality that contraception is sinful per se is just insane imo, it's delusional to think that it would be better if women just churned out a dozen children or so again, as they did in many Western countries until the late 19th century, and such a view will never find broad acceptance. An unthinking pro-natalist mentality is also an important factor in the problems of many of the failed societies of the global South (just look at Syria, where the state encouraged very large family sizes and even banned contraceptives for a long time...the resultant youth bulge certainly must have been an important precondition for the civil war).
    Agree with you about the current pope and much of the Catholic church, I don't expect anything positive from them.

    Replies: @Beckow

  757. German_reader says:
    @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...with good reason “Breed and multiply, God will take care of it” is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted.
     
    Why are breed and multiply thrown together so facetiously? One can have a family, the society can be built around families, without necessarily overwhelming the ecology. If you do the numbers, it is what would happen with a pro-family policy: a relatively stable population with less impact on the environment.

    Massive migration has worse ecological and other consequences. It suppresses natives' family formation, destroys cities and with it the culture, it is costly, etc...

    Pope Francis doesn't wish well to Europe and in a very deep sense he is an anti-European. It is the first time that has happened in the Catholic Church, it was intentional. His economic musings are throw-away lines tinged with pathological charity that is not meant seriously.

    We still underestimate the systematic take-over by the uber-liberalism in the last 5-10 years: there was something very conscious about it, very deliberate. It has succeeded so fast that it reached the usual ideological cul-de-sac quicker than usually. Now what? Given the full power that the liberals have they naturally double-down on their ideas - but it has moved so fast that they are isolated. Not quite year zero yet with divinity festivals and guillotine carriages, but some of the liberal fanatics are not far off.

    Is is not fixable, there will be either massive enforcement or a reaction. Western liberals need an external war to consolidate or distract, but where and how?

    Replies: @German_reader

    If you do the numbers, it is what would happen with a pro-family policy: a relatively stable population with less impact on the environment.

    Pro-family policies in Europe should have the aim to make it easier for women to have 2-3 children, which seems to be the commonly stated preference. However, the mentality that contraception is sinful per se is just insane imo, it’s delusional to think that it would be better if women just churned out a dozen children or so again, as they did in many Western countries until the late 19th century, and such a view will never find broad acceptance. An unthinking pro-natalist mentality is also an important factor in the problems of many of the failed societies of the global South (just look at Syria, where the state encouraged very large family sizes and even banned contraceptives for a long time…the resultant youth bulge certainly must have been an important precondition for the civil war).
    Agree with you about the current pope and much of the Catholic church, I don’t expect anything positive from them.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @German_reader

    If you look at the current TFR numbers in Europe of 1.5-7, with natives below that, there is a lot of room to grow before the late 19th century situation. If it does, we will be smart enough to make changes. Pro-family policies in Europe have raised natality by at most 25-50%, usually less than that (Syrians are different :).

    The "society acceptance" is by itself an issue: it reflects all the other liberal pathologies - to change it we need incentives and a change in mentality. I am pro-family, beyond the preference you mentioned, and in my experience my non-family friends are usually unhappy - in different ways, but as years pass, always unhappy. For women the barren post 40-45 existence without a family is a kind of hell: they medicate, lurch from nonsense to bigger nonsense, pretend, etc... I know people will point out that 10-15% historically have been like that and they managed. But 30%, or even higher...this is heading towards a social catastrophe.

  758. @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    Once read some memoirs by a former Cunard captain named James Bisset. I really quite liked the one called Tramps & Ladies, where he talks about starting his career on steampships, when they were fairly new.

    The one after that, I don't recommend, but in an abstract way (not for entertainment), it was still really fascinating. It describes his time as a captain of troop transports. When passenger lines were converted over for the war effort. Lot of figures in it, which make it a kind of dry read. But, there's one thing that kind of stands out to me - in his quoting them, he is showing his evident amazement at what a marvel of technology that steamships were when it came to moving people.

    And I think somewhere else, he talks about speed, and how the latest, fastest, biggest ships were always the London to NYC line, but when they replaced them, they sent them to the Med, or other locations.

    You can really kind of see the groundwork for the invasion of the West, or for how the first beachheads formed. Though, I guess one gets a similar vibe, when listening to the speeches of early aviators.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I’ll definitely keep the name of James Biset and his accounts of sailing in mind as I traverse the world off bookstores and second hand emporiums of earthly delights. With your interest in boats and sea travel, I’m sure that you’d find Harry A Franck’s first travel book “A Vagabond Journey Around the World: A Narrative of Personal Experience” to be something of your liking and right up your alley. It’s a rough and tumble account of a nascent travel writers first outing into the outside world. A young English teacher decides to take a gamble and prove to his friends that he could travel around the world on less than a shoestring budget (\$104 to be exact that was used primarily to fund his photographic endeavors) exhibiting verve and cunning all along the path! It’s really an incredible voyage that extends rom the Canadian seaboard where he leaves on a cattle boat and travels through a lot of Europe mostly by foot, settling here and there taking on odd jobs to help put food on his ever dwindling table. The rest of the trip includes bouts in the Middle East including Egypt, then to India and further to the Far East including Japan. The last chapter including his trip home, goes into some incredible depth about what it was to truly like to experience sea travel during that timeframe (1905-1906). The book was a real eye opener for me, showing how the vagabond of the past could expect to get some help in the form of free meals, money and travel tickets from the local US consulate, the YMCA and other international charity organizations.

    A book that quakes with a realism of that period of time, what many reviewers of this book have referred to it as a veritable “time machine” taking the reader back in time. The original paperbak printing of this book took place in 1910 and I own what I think is a hardbound edition printed in 1936. I see that this book merited a very prestigious republishing in 2018 (Scholars Edition) bcause as the publisher states:

    “This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work…This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public.


    Highly recommended!

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    A small, but necessary addition to the Publishers quote above:


    Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public.
     
  759. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I'll definitely keep the name of James Biset and his accounts of sailing in mind as I traverse the world off bookstores and second hand emporiums of earthly delights. With your interest in boats and sea travel, I'm sure that you'd find Harry A Franck's first travel book "A Vagabond Journey Around the World: A Narrative of Personal Experience" to be something of your liking and right up your alley. It's a rough and tumble account of a nascent travel writers first outing into the outside world. A young English teacher decides to take a gamble and prove to his friends that he could travel around the world on less than a shoestring budget ($104 to be exact that was used primarily to fund his photographic endeavors) exhibiting verve and cunning all along the path! It's really an incredible voyage that extends rom the Canadian seaboard where he leaves on a cattle boat and travels through a lot of Europe mostly by foot, settling here and there taking on odd jobs to help put food on his ever dwindling table. The rest of the trip includes bouts in the Middle East including Egypt, then to India and further to the Far East including Japan. The last chapter including his trip home, goes into some incredible depth about what it was to truly like to experience sea travel during that timeframe (1905-1906). The book was a real eye opener for me, showing how the vagabond of the past could expect to get some help in the form of free meals, money and travel tickets from the local US consulate, the YMCA and other international charity organizations.

    A book that quakes with a realism of that period of time, what many reviewers of this book have referred to it as a veritable "time machine" taking the reader back in time. The original paperbak printing of this book took place in 1910 and I own what I think is a hardbound edition printed in 1936. I see that this book merited a very prestigious republishing in 2018 (Scholars Edition) bcause as the publisher states:


    "This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work...This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public.
     
    https://pictures.abebooks.com/inventory/md/md21778628253.jpg

    Highly recommended!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    A small, but necessary addition to the Publishers quote above:

    Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public.

  760. Anyone have takes on Prosvirnin’s assassination?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @AP


    Anyone have takes on [Egor] Prosvirnin’s assassination?
     
    So we accept that the official explanation of suicide is bullshit? Seems about right.
    My take is that it was someone from the Kremlin. Putin is an eternal moderate who fears both the far-right and far-left and who isn't afraid to get dirty. Poltard memes about him being somekind of anti-globalist force is of course utter nonsense (as is AK's shilling of him)

    All systems fundamentally crave stability. The CCP, despite being portrayed as hardline nationalists, keep the real Chinese nationalists under wraps. Just a few days ago Xi warned against Han chauvinism. Russia is no different.

    There are good reasons why people went into exile for political work in past times. This instinct seems to have faded in recent years and Egor paid a price for it.
    , @Dmitry
    @AP

    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.

    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.

    Also from what I could read, his views are imperialist, more than nationalist.

    Imperialist views are supported by the authorities, whereas nationalist views are repressed. His website had been blocked which would imply it had published some nationalist content. However, there was never any prosecution of him, which would imply it cannot have been very much of a controversial nationalist content there.

    He is with a knife and gas cannister when he jumps from the balcony.
    https://twitter.com/YaltaInExil/status/1475483919780917255

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Anatoly Karlin

  761. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    There are plenty of ways to eat kale or spinach without salads.

    I am personally in favor of the frittata for breakfast approach. Some bacon or sausage along with a sauteed onion and garlic, kale or spinach, maybe some mushroom in egg topped with cheese and finished in the broiler till crisp and bubbly is a kingly breakfast. Especially with a slab of buttery toast and coffee.

    Delicious and nutritious!

    (Hmmm. This is apparently what happens when I comment just after breakfast...)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I’ll admit to liking celery, when it is added into different things: eggs, or pasta, or mashed potatoes, etc.

    Occasionally, I’ve gotten the impulse to try to add dandelions, but I haven’t done it so far. Don’t know whether you need to get the early ones, or not.

    I know some people who eat budding ferns, which I think transcends rabbit food to go directly to herbivorous dinosaur food.

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Dandelion greens are best young, before the flowers bloom. They get more bitter after that but are certainly still edible.
    I've also seen dandelion flower cookies, which were fine. I've never tried battering and frying the flowers though, which is supposedly good. Perhaps I'll try it next year.
    My dietary rule is "All things in moderation", so I like my rabbit food along with my meat and starches! My metabolism tends to run hot, so I also need plenty of it!

    Replies: @iffen, @songbird

  762. @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I'll admit to liking celery, when it is added into different things: eggs, or pasta, or mashed potatoes, etc.

    Occasionally, I've gotten the impulse to try to add dandelions, but I haven't done it so far. Don't know whether you need to get the early ones, or not.

    I know some people who eat budding ferns, which I think transcends rabbit food to go directly to herbivorous dinosaur food.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Dandelion greens are best young, before the flowers bloom. They get more bitter after that but are certainly still edible.
    I’ve also seen dandelion flower cookies, which were fine. I’ve never tried battering and frying the flowers though, which is supposedly good. Perhaps I’ll try it next year.
    My dietary rule is “All things in moderation”, so I like my rabbit food along with my meat and starches! My metabolism tends to run hot, so I also need plenty of it!

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Barbarossa

    Poke salat!



    Polk Salad Annie
    Tony Joe White, Johnny Hallyday
    Now some of y'all never been down South too much
    I'm gonna tell you a little bit about this
    So that you'll understand what I'm talking about

    Down there we have a plant that grows out in the woods and the fields
    Looks somethin' like a turnip green
    Everybody calls it polk salad, polk salad, huh

    Used to know a girl that lived down there
    And she'd go out in the evenings and pick her a mess of it
    Carry it home and cook it for supper
    'Cause that's about all they had to eat
    They did all right

    Down in Louisiana
    Where the alligators grow so mean
    There lived a girl that I swear to the world
    Made the alligators look tame

    Polk salad Annie, polk salad Annie
    Everybody said it was a shame
    'Cause her mama was working on a chain-gang
    A mean business woman, huh

    Now, everyday 'fore supper time
    She'd go down by the truck patch
    And pick her a mess o' polk salad
    And carry it home in a tote sack

    Polk salad Annie
    The gators got your granny
    Chomp, chomp, chomp
    Everybody said it was a shame
    'Cause her mama was a-workin' on a chain gang
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman, hehe
    Lord have mercy, pick a mess of it

    Huh
    Her daddy was lazy and no count
    Claimed he had a bad back
    All her brothers were fit for
    Was stealin' watermelons out of my truck patch

    Polk salad Annie
    The gators got your granny, woo hoo
    Everybody said it was a shame
    'Cause her mama was a-working on a chain gang

    Sock a little polk salad to me
    You know I need a mean mess of it
    Ooh, oh, good God
    Ooh, oh, oh, oh, oh
    Got to have me
    Hey, love
    Huh

    , @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I think there's kind of weird flipside to the old point about people eating better than the kings of old, due to supermarkets:

    We've been alienated from some of the old foods that our ancestors ate, not too long ago. The forage of wild plants that they had to make in summer, as they nearly starved, before they took in their harvest. The many local varieties of things like apples.

    I remember being a little kid, visiting Ireland. We were with some people who had sheep, and I was pulling up stuff to try to feed them, and pulled up some nettles (not knowing what they were) - and regretted it. But that is exactly the sort of stuff that people used to eat.

    I wonder whether countries where people are more culturally inclined to eat mushrooms have kept up a better general culture of foraging. I would guess so. What is it about mushrooms that seem to motivate people more than many other plants or berries? On Christmas someone was telling me that they started adding mushrooms to all their food, and had trouble finding the right ones at the supermarket.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

  763. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    If you do the numbers, it is what would happen with a pro-family policy: a relatively stable population with less impact on the environment.
     
    Pro-family policies in Europe should have the aim to make it easier for women to have 2-3 children, which seems to be the commonly stated preference. However, the mentality that contraception is sinful per se is just insane imo, it's delusional to think that it would be better if women just churned out a dozen children or so again, as they did in many Western countries until the late 19th century, and such a view will never find broad acceptance. An unthinking pro-natalist mentality is also an important factor in the problems of many of the failed societies of the global South (just look at Syria, where the state encouraged very large family sizes and even banned contraceptives for a long time...the resultant youth bulge certainly must have been an important precondition for the civil war).
    Agree with you about the current pope and much of the Catholic church, I don't expect anything positive from them.

    Replies: @Beckow

    If you look at the current TFR numbers in Europe of 1.5-7, with natives below that, there is a lot of room to grow before the late 19th century situation. If it does, we will be smart enough to make changes. Pro-family policies in Europe have raised natality by at most 25-50%, usually less than that (Syrians are different :).

    The “society acceptance” is by itself an issue: it reflects all the other liberal pathologies – to change it we need incentives and a change in mentality. I am pro-family, beyond the preference you mentioned, and in my experience my non-family friends are usually unhappy – in different ways, but as years pass, always unhappy. For women the barren post 40-45 existence without a family is a kind of hell: they medicate, lurch from nonsense to bigger nonsense, pretend, etc… I know people will point out that 10-15% historically have been like that and they managed. But 30%, or even higher…this is heading towards a social catastrophe.

  764. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    There are a lot of differences in the coding in political, cultural and legal architecture of the latino countries compared to the anglosaxon countries, and we see different results.
     
    Jamaica, Zimbabwe or Nigeria inherited Anglosaxon customs and institutions but I don't see very good results.

    To be clear, whatever Spanish cultural heritage Latin Americans received from Spain was not conducive to great prosperity. Spain was late to the industrial revolution and never achieved the levels of economic progress of its northern neighbors. Latin American independence leaders, influenced by the Enlightenment ideas, were themselves very critical of Spain's backwardness in their writings and hoped to create more prosperous societies than the mother country. But eventually the contrary happened. They became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it's too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.

    In social matters there are always multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries in Europe or Asia. If this was a natural sciences question, when you examine these countries' specifics there is a certain correlation that stands out so much that there wouldn't be any debate about its validity. But this isn't natural sciences so you're allowed to approach it with moral priors and you might have already decided that HBD cannot possibly play any role because HBD is morally wrong.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    HBD

    As far as I could see “HBD” was just a meme from this blog or forum. It’s not used outside here.

    If you mean that there is a genetic explanation (average genetics across a population) for the situation in Latin America. Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it’s more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one.

    Putin will be genetically Northern European, but property rights, civil liberty, investment climate, etc, in Russian politics, can be opposite of Finland or Norway.

    Sanna Marin might not be that genetically far from Putin (although she has beauty genes, which Putin does not). But the political responses will be the opposite.

    Trujillo , Castro, Franco, Pinochet, et al, have Latin genetics, while Chávez has a native America genetics. I’m not sure it has much change of their politics.

    Even when you can’t separate culture, there is North and South Korea.

    Israel’s population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England. The government is not going to expropriate your company.

    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it’s obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.

    multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries i

    Sure there are significant differences of prosperity. Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, are the same GDP per capita as Russia. These are high income countries by the World Bank classification. Guatemala and Bolivia are lower.

    However, if you compare colonies where there are stable installations of English law or property rights.

    The difference of cluster is significant, even with diverse populations. There are many variables. But the significant one for something like GDP per capita is political and legal architecture that creates an environment for 21st century investment.

    became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it’s too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.

    Sure, it’s not going to productive for those countries to complain about events of several centuries ago. It could be more useful for study of countries like Estonia, where there is a basis for investment climate and legal, political stability developed in the last only 30 years. Spain itself is an example where they can see some extent of positive improvement of political frameworks the last 40 years, although it’s still a political system that seems more repressive than you would expect for Western Europe (e.g. recent Catalan independence repressions).

    Although in those cases there is the EU to carefully invest and advise underdeveloped countries, and there is no equivalent of the EU to help guide the underdeveloped countries of Latin America. Maybe you can say “USA”, but there is a little mixed history of success, considering stories like “Operation Condor”.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    Israel’s population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England.


     

    But the elite is Ashkenazi.

    https://i.imgur.com/BBzW7zS.jpg

    Elites are the ones who craft institutions and uphold them, not plebs. In addition, we all know about the HBD theory between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews and this discrepancy is in Mikel's favour.


    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it’s obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.
     
    Prosperity: software + hardware. Can't have one without the other.

    HBD spergs discount crucial software. Creative souls seem to have emotional aversion to the hardware. Neither group understands the other.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    In the hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descent (since very few East Asians live there): a group with the highest percentage in the South Cone, a group with the lowest percentage in Bolivia and the countries of Central America between Costa Rica and Mexico and an intermediate group with, say, Peru and Brazil.

    If these groups of countries clustered together in a metric such as per capita GDP the hypothesis would be validated and additional research would be warranted. Let's see:

    https://i.imgur.com/tiaId9S.jpg

    I don't know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites within each of these countries and seeing what the results are.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  765. @AP
    Anyone have takes on Prosvirnin’s assassination?

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    Anyone have takes on [Egor] Prosvirnin’s assassination?

    So we accept that the official explanation of suicide is bullshit? Seems about right.
    My take is that it was someone from the Kremlin. Putin is an eternal moderate who fears both the far-right and far-left and who isn’t afraid to get dirty. Poltard memes about him being somekind of anti-globalist force is of course utter nonsense (as is AK’s shilling of him)

    All systems fundamentally crave stability. The CCP, despite being portrayed as hardline nationalists, keep the real Chinese nationalists under wraps. Just a few days ago Xi warned against Han chauvinism. Russia is no different.

    There are good reasons why people went into exile for political work in past times. This instinct seems to have faded in recent years and Egor paid a price for it.

  766. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    HBD
     
    As far as I could see "HBD" was just a meme from this blog or forum. It's not used outside here.

    If you mean that there is a genetic explanation (average genetics across a population) for the situation in Latin America. Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it's more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one.

    Putin will be genetically Northern European, but property rights, civil liberty, investment climate, etc, in Russian politics, can be opposite of Finland or Norway.

    Sanna Marin might not be that genetically far from Putin (although she has beauty genes, which Putin does not). But the political responses will be the opposite.

    Trujillo , Castro, Franco, Pinochet, et al, have Latin genetics, while Chávez has a native America genetics. I'm not sure it has much change of their politics.

    Even when you can't separate culture, there is North and South Korea.

    Israel's population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England. The government is not going to expropriate your company.

    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it's obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.


    multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries i

     

    Sure there are significant differences of prosperity. Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, are the same GDP per capita as Russia. These are high income countries by the World Bank classification. Guatemala and Bolivia are lower.

    However, if you compare colonies where there are stable installations of English law or property rights.

    The difference of cluster is significant, even with diverse populations. There are many variables. But the significant one for something like GDP per capita is political and legal architecture that creates an environment for 21st century investment.

    https://i.imgur.com/8Zvpipi.jpg


    became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it’s too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.
     
    Sure, it's not going to productive for those countries to complain about events of several centuries ago. It could be more useful for study of countries like Estonia, where there is a basis for investment climate and legal, political stability developed in the last only 30 years. Spain itself is an example where they can see some extent of positive improvement of political frameworks the last 40 years, although it's still a political system that seems more repressive than you would expect for Western Europe (e.g. recent Catalan independence repressions).

    Although in those cases there is the EU to carefully invest and advise underdeveloped countries, and there is no equivalent of the EU to help guide the underdeveloped countries of Latin America. Maybe you can say "USA", but there is a little mixed history of success, considering stories like "Operation Condor".

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @Mikel

    Israel’s population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England.

    But the elite is Ashkenazi.

    Elites are the ones who craft institutions and uphold them, not plebs. In addition, we all know about the HBD theory between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews and this discrepancy is in Mikel’s favour.

    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it’s obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.

    Prosperity: software + hardware. Can’t have one without the other.

    HBD spergs discount crucial software. Creative souls seem to have emotional aversion to the hardware. Neither group understands the other.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    elite is Ashkenazi.
     
    But they were mostly from the Russian Empire. They are not cricket playing people from Oxford or Greenwich. You might expect Israel to be more like Ukraine or Russia, if not the Ottoman Empire.

    If you learn modern Hebrew, you can see how much Russian language they imported in technical words. You could have been worried about Israel's future political culture.

    English law and democracy wasn't exactly carried to Palestine by Jewish immigrants. It was installed by the British Mandate for Palestine and in an evolutionary way which incorporates pre-existing Ottoman Laws.

    I would agree that on average, secular Ashkenazi Jews are an unusually educated and skillful population. Their immigration to Argentina, is why Argentina has a large share of the most famous currently classical musicians.

    But Russia, Ukraine, Argentina, have Ashkenazi elites. It means you will have some good classical musicians. It doesn't mean you can invest in these countries, without being expropriated, or that the government won't change via coup d'état.

    In the second half of the 20th century, Israel had experiments with socialism and many economic failures, as well as problems with cartels, import substitution, and more recently offshore Cyprus style scams like binary options. However, the overall framework has been this stable installation English law and parliamentary democracy, which has allowed the system to self-correct.

    Entrepreneurs are not expropriated and exiled for criticizing the authorities. There are no military coup-d'etat. Prime Ministers can go to prison for corruption. Foreign investors are not assassinated. Media can report freely to the public about politicians and businesses (e.g. information transparency for business or law). These are some of the best things you can inherit from the British Empire, perhaps in the long run it can be as valuable as finding natural resources like oil and gas.

    Replies: @AP

  767. @AP
    Anyone have takes on Prosvirnin’s assassination?

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @Dmitry

    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.

    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.

    Also from what I could read, his views are imperialist, more than nationalist.

    Imperialist views are supported by the authorities, whereas nationalist views are repressed. His website had been blocked which would imply it had published some nationalist content. However, there was never any prosecution of him, which would imply it cannot have been very much of a controversial nationalist content there.

    He is with a knife and gas cannister when he jumps from the balcony.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    I just found out that he lived a few blocks from my wife’s place where I stay when we visit Moscow. We must have passed each other in the street occasionally.

    Him being naked suggests that the killer (or rather, the person ordering the killing) wanted to humiliate him.

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @LatW
    @Dmitry


    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.
     
    You're generally right, but last year there was at least one savage and disproportionate persecution of a monarchist / imperialist. Forgot his name, but it was a friend of Colonel Kvachkov's, a very minor figure, who had done a few very small demos, where he said a few, one may say, somewhat aggressive things. And that's it. 15 years in a colony. What they give to murderers. So yea... last year the political persecutions were across the board... including communists... and now we see even rappers.

    Btw, did you hear about the closure of Memorial and the historian who was researching Stalin's crimes who was also given 15 years just this week?


    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.
     
    Some of the far right types are indeed unstable (not all or most, of course, but some with a particular constitution). What you might find interesting is that over Christmas one of our religious leaders in his address highlighted the following: Covid has divided our society and has revealed surprising things about the people we live with, things we did not know were there. The Archbishop encouraged to forgive and to not dwell on those things, even pretend they weren't there, brush over and live on.

    This kind of resonates with the things Prosvirnin tweeted recently about his relationship. It sounds like they were fighting over the marriage dynamic, who will be the one on top or maybe he wasn't getting enough respect (and that can be subjective). "I lived daily with her for 6 years and now I learned things about her I had no idea about. I don't wish it upon anybody.". Granted, this can happen in any relationship, especially around the 6-7 year mark, but the lockdown really just exacerbates that. And can lead to extreme outcomes.

    This is a very volatile time for many families. Those who did not have a strong foundation to begin with, could slip through the cracks or worse, perish...

    Btw, where he lived, that's a nice house in a nice address.

    Poor mother... her wail was so chilling. Нидай Бог! May all our sons be protected.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    https://twitter.com/akarlin0/status/1475578519820328967

    Replies: @sher singh

  768. There’s a lot of debate on this website about fertility. There seems to be an inverse relationship between modernity and fertility patterns. This relationship can only be bended – or broken – through religiosity. America in the 50s and 60s did it, but later rapidly secularised and fertility fell.

    Israel is an interesting case insofar as it is now an economy wealthier than the UK and France yet has a fertility rate almost twice that of Iran’s (>3 per woman). Instead of empty speculation, just read about it.

    But Israel’s also a cautionary tale. By 2060, a large majority of their youth will be either Haredi or Arab moslem, neither has a track record of upholding a modern and industrial economy. The secular Israelis are banking on converting religious Haredim, but this is much slower process than in the Western diaspora, for various reasons. As the Haredi share grows, the cultural pressure to conform to secular norms will also fade, making a tough task even tougher. Nevertheless, I’d rather have Israel’s problem than the problem of too low fertility like most of the West and East Asia.

    I’m not a religious man, but I am slowly coming to the view that perhaps more faith in our society wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Even beyond the cold and calculated instrumentalist view, it probably helps people form communities easier, reduces alienation and encourages healthier family formation habits. AP is not wrong in this regard. Obviously Christianity would be the only logical choice for the West, which would necessarily also require a fundamental revolution. Despite the anti-Protestantism bend some have pushed here, it is the most radical of the denominations in all directions. It’s the easiest pathway for rapid innovation, whereas the Catholic church is old and corrupted, in addition to being largely useless as we can see with Pope Francis.

    The trouble is that making this case in our current cultural milieu is not easy and even those who would be sympathetic are so only on an intellectual level (like me) without being fully engaged in a personal sense. I’ve never believed in the afterlife, in heaven or in hell, and I don’t think I can pretend or force myself to suddenly start. I’m far from alone in this.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    Despite the anti-Protestantism bend some have pushed here, it is the most radical of the denominations in all directions.
     
    "Protestantism" can mean lots of things, e.g. there's quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you'd have to be more precise what you have in mind. Also, what does "radical" mean here?

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend

    I think that much of it boils down to the fact that the irreligious modernist viewpoint sees human relationships as essentially contractual in nature. There is nothing sacred, fundamentally binding, or transcendent about them. They are made to be broken when they "don't work". This goes to the logical extremes that one would expect and result in much of the societal decay which we see playing out around us.

    The religious viewpoint raises humanity to another level of aspiration, even if it is often not realized. The idea that a given human relationship can be sacred is a powerful one.

    As C.S. Lewis said: “Aim at Heaven and you will get Earth 'thrown in': aim at Earth and you will get neither.”

    Right now I am reading "Family and Civilization" by Carle C. Zimmerman originally published in 1947. It's been interesting so far. He traces the cyclical nature of family structure through Greek, Roman, and European history; demonstrating the transitions in each from the clan type family, to the domestic family, and lastly to the atomistic or individualistic type.

    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion. Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.
    Part of this was the Churches' insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.

    Personally, I've had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

  769. @Dmitry
    @AP

    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.

    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.

    Also from what I could read, his views are imperialist, more than nationalist.

    Imperialist views are supported by the authorities, whereas nationalist views are repressed. His website had been blocked which would imply it had published some nationalist content. However, there was never any prosecution of him, which would imply it cannot have been very much of a controversial nationalist content there.

    He is with a knife and gas cannister when he jumps from the balcony.
    https://twitter.com/YaltaInExil/status/1475483919780917255

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Anatoly Karlin

    I just found out that he lived a few blocks from my wife’s place where I stay when we visit Moscow. We must have passed each other in the street occasionally.

    Him being naked suggests that the killer (or rather, the person ordering the killing) wanted to humiliate him.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AP

    IIRC, Prosvirnin relatively recently publicly called Putin gay or pederast, so if that was some unnatural outside forces/causes, it may be Nemtsov-like situation, who called Putin as fucked by somebody ("jobnutyj") sometime before the killing.

    Replies: @LatW, @Svidomyatheart

  770. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    Israel’s population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England.


     

    But the elite is Ashkenazi.

    https://i.imgur.com/BBzW7zS.jpg

    Elites are the ones who craft institutions and uphold them, not plebs. In addition, we all know about the HBD theory between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews and this discrepancy is in Mikel's favour.


    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it’s obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.
     
    Prosperity: software + hardware. Can't have one without the other.

    HBD spergs discount crucial software. Creative souls seem to have emotional aversion to the hardware. Neither group understands the other.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    elite is Ashkenazi.

    But they were mostly from the Russian Empire. They are not cricket playing people from Oxford or Greenwich. You might expect Israel to be more like Ukraine or Russia, if not the Ottoman Empire.

    If you learn modern Hebrew, you can see how much Russian language they imported in technical words. You could have been worried about Israel’s future political culture.

    English law and democracy wasn’t exactly carried to Palestine by Jewish immigrants. It was installed by the British Mandate for Palestine and in an evolutionary way which incorporates pre-existing Ottoman Laws.

    I would agree that on average, secular Ashkenazi Jews are an unusually educated and skillful population. Their immigration to Argentina, is why Argentina has a large share of the most famous currently classical musicians.

    But Russia, Ukraine, Argentina, have Ashkenazi elites. It means you will have some good classical musicians. It doesn’t mean you can invest in these countries, without being expropriated, or that the government won’t change via coup d’état.

    In the second half of the 20th century, Israel had experiments with socialism and many economic failures, as well as problems with cartels, import substitution, and more recently offshore Cyprus style scams like binary options. However, the overall framework has been this stable installation English law and parliamentary democracy, which has allowed the system to self-correct.

    Entrepreneurs are not expropriated and exiled for criticizing the authorities. There are no military coup-d’etat. Prime Ministers can go to prison for corruption. Foreign investors are not assassinated. Media can report freely to the public about politicians and businesses (e.g. information transparency for business or law). These are some of the best things you can inherit from the British Empire, perhaps in the long run it can be as valuable as finding natural resources like oil and gas.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    So the Brits have done for the people of Israel what they did for the people of Hong Kong and Singapore. Their efforts didn’t do much for the people of Jamaica though.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  771. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    HBD
     
    As far as I could see "HBD" was just a meme from this blog or forum. It's not used outside here.

    If you mean that there is a genetic explanation (average genetics across a population) for the situation in Latin America. Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it's more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one.

    Putin will be genetically Northern European, but property rights, civil liberty, investment climate, etc, in Russian politics, can be opposite of Finland or Norway.

    Sanna Marin might not be that genetically far from Putin (although she has beauty genes, which Putin does not). But the political responses will be the opposite.

    Trujillo , Castro, Franco, Pinochet, et al, have Latin genetics, while Chávez has a native America genetics. I'm not sure it has much change of their politics.

    Even when you can't separate culture, there is North and South Korea.

    Israel's population are from mostly Arab regions of the Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire, countries like Iran, Yemen and Iraq. So you should expect both culturally and genetic (if you believe latter can be plausible) concordance with dictatorships, that lack property rights. But actually the investment and property rights situation there, is closer to England. The government is not going to expropriate your company.

    So ahead of speculations about genetics, it's obvious to look at the software of the political, cultural and legal architecture that is installed in the countries, and what the effects of this kind of software is.


    multiple factors at play but the levels of prosperity of the Latin American countries are very different. From the South Cone countries to Bolivia or the Central American permanent disaster zones the differences are about as big as those you find between the richest and poorest countries i

     

    Sure there are significant differences of prosperity. Mexico, Cuba, Argentina, are the same GDP per capita as Russia. These are high income countries by the World Bank classification. Guatemala and Bolivia are lower.

    However, if you compare colonies where there are stable installations of English law or property rights.

    The difference of cluster is significant, even with diverse populations. There are many variables. But the significant one for something like GDP per capita is political and legal architecture that creates an environment for 21st century investment.

    https://i.imgur.com/8Zvpipi.jpg


    became poorer than Spain and two centuries later it’s too late to keep blaming the mother country for their underdevelopment.
     
    Sure, it's not going to productive for those countries to complain about events of several centuries ago. It could be more useful for study of countries like Estonia, where there is a basis for investment climate and legal, political stability developed in the last only 30 years. Spain itself is an example where they can see some extent of positive improvement of political frameworks the last 40 years, although it's still a political system that seems more repressive than you would expect for Western Europe (e.g. recent Catalan independence repressions).

    Although in those cases there is the EU to carefully invest and advise underdeveloped countries, and there is no equivalent of the EU to help guide the underdeveloped countries of Latin America. Maybe you can say "USA", but there is a little mixed history of success, considering stories like "Operation Condor".

    Replies: @Thulean Friend, @Mikel

    In the hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descent (since very few East Asians live there): a group with the highest percentage in the South Cone, a group with the lowest percentage in Bolivia and the countries of Central America between Costa Rica and Mexico and an intermediate group with, say, Peru and Brazil.

    If these groups of countries clustered together in a metric such as per capita GDP the hypothesis would be validated and additional research would be warranted. Let’s see:

    I don’t know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites within each of these countries and seeing what the results are.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    Sure I saw there are significant differences within Latin America. But Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.

    I would see 20th century Argentina as a case report, that great wealth can be lost by corrupt and incompetent politics, although being one of the wealthiest countries in the beginning of the 20th century, with a large inflow of European immigration (although under quite open borders regime, so not selecting especially for skilled immigrants).

    Only one Latin American country where the income is similar today to the source country of its immigrants is Puerto Rico (although there a majority of the population have some native descendent).

    If you were writing a case report on Argentina, you could write that high culture seemed to be carried by the later immigrants from Europe. Puerto Rico is land of Reggaeton, while Argentina has Daniel Barenboim, Astor Piazzolla (well popular culture, but a good one), Martha Argerich.

    But a contemporary Western European income level has not been produced by the European immigration to Argentina in the long run, unlike classical music, literature and architecture that were carried to Argentina.

    https://i.imgur.com/1Wb0DNp.jpg


    hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descen
     
    You would need to maintain all the same culture and history, while changing the genetics.

    Our discussion about income is like "case report", so would be considered low if we were looking at medicine. But it's entertaining to discuss.
    https://i.imgur.com/wj3k4hV.png


    As a case report, we might notice that Argentina received significant immigration from Germany and Italy. So from this case report, immigration from countries which would develop high incomes by the late 20th century, would not ensure high incomes by the late 20th century.


    I don’t know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites
     
    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country, at least until there is a revolution or political change (so e.g. Baltic Germans do not rule Latvians and Estonians).

    I think the more notable problem of Latin America is the politics, corruption, and legal system, of these countries, which is partly in their elites, but continues after revolutions against the elites (e.g. Chavez). And this is where we need to know a lot of historical detail (to begin to understand).

    In terms of European descent, we all want our country to have German or Swedish income. But then in Ukraine, etc, having not that dissimilar genetics as Germans, and not receiving similar results to Germany. You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

  772. @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    elite is Ashkenazi.
     
    But they were mostly from the Russian Empire. They are not cricket playing people from Oxford or Greenwich. You might expect Israel to be more like Ukraine or Russia, if not the Ottoman Empire.

    If you learn modern Hebrew, you can see how much Russian language they imported in technical words. You could have been worried about Israel's future political culture.

    English law and democracy wasn't exactly carried to Palestine by Jewish immigrants. It was installed by the British Mandate for Palestine and in an evolutionary way which incorporates pre-existing Ottoman Laws.

    I would agree that on average, secular Ashkenazi Jews are an unusually educated and skillful population. Their immigration to Argentina, is why Argentina has a large share of the most famous currently classical musicians.

    But Russia, Ukraine, Argentina, have Ashkenazi elites. It means you will have some good classical musicians. It doesn't mean you can invest in these countries, without being expropriated, or that the government won't change via coup d'état.

    In the second half of the 20th century, Israel had experiments with socialism and many economic failures, as well as problems with cartels, import substitution, and more recently offshore Cyprus style scams like binary options. However, the overall framework has been this stable installation English law and parliamentary democracy, which has allowed the system to self-correct.

    Entrepreneurs are not expropriated and exiled for criticizing the authorities. There are no military coup-d'etat. Prime Ministers can go to prison for corruption. Foreign investors are not assassinated. Media can report freely to the public about politicians and businesses (e.g. information transparency for business or law). These are some of the best things you can inherit from the British Empire, perhaps in the long run it can be as valuable as finding natural resources like oil and gas.

    Replies: @AP

    So the Brits have done for the people of Israel what they did for the people of Hong Kong and Singapore. Their efforts didn’t do much for the people of Jamaica though.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    Brits have done for the people of Israel
     
    British Empire is responsible for charming things there. Look at Tel Aviv - ok it looks terrible. Much of buildings of Tel Aviv are like a third world African country. But, its streetplan is very nice, and this city plan creates a good atmosphere.

    Well, Tel Aviv's street plan was written by a Scottish expert, Patrick Geddes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Geddes ).

    So Tel Aviv has third world buildings. But its street plan was written from one of the world's leading experts, during the British Empire. ​

    After independence, Israel starts planning new cities, and their designs appear very Russian/Soviet - the urban planning culture of the Jewish immigrant experts from the Russian Empire becomes more apparent, rather than the culture of the British Empire experts that had ruled the Mandate Palestine.

    Quality of their building improved a lot with each decade post 1960s. This Russian/Soviet urban planning is also probably successful in practical ways. But you can regret that the British Empire was not there anymore with experts like Patrick Geddes, who wrote the design of less uniform Tel Aviv.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1QquDN_sg0

    Their efforts didn’t do much for the people of Jamaica though.
     
    Jamaica seems to have a lot of problems, at least from 1970s. But these other islands like Anguilla, Turks and Caicos, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Bahamas, seem to be enjoying British influence or rule.

    Mostly they are not independent however, still with some extent to British rule like in Jersey. Only Bahamas has been independent of the British Empire for 50 years.
  773. German_reader says:
    @Thulean Friend
    There's a lot of debate on this website about fertility. There seems to be an inverse relationship between modernity and fertility patterns. This relationship can only be bended - or broken - through religiosity. America in the 50s and 60s did it, but later rapidly secularised and fertility fell.

    Israel is an interesting case insofar as it is now an economy wealthier than the UK and France yet has a fertility rate almost twice that of Iran's (>3 per woman). Instead of empty speculation, just read about it.

    But Israel's also a cautionary tale. By 2060, a large majority of their youth will be either Haredi or Arab moslem, neither has a track record of upholding a modern and industrial economy. The secular Israelis are banking on converting religious Haredim, but this is much slower process than in the Western diaspora, for various reasons. As the Haredi share grows, the cultural pressure to conform to secular norms will also fade, making a tough task even tougher. Nevertheless, I'd rather have Israel's problem than the problem of too low fertility like most of the West and East Asia.

    I'm not a religious man, but I am slowly coming to the view that perhaps more faith in our society wouldn't be such a bad thing. Even beyond the cold and calculated instrumentalist view, it probably helps people form communities easier, reduces alienation and encourages healthier family formation habits. AP is not wrong in this regard. Obviously Christianity would be the only logical choice for the West, which would necessarily also require a fundamental revolution. Despite the anti-Protestantism bend some have pushed here, it is the most radical of the denominations in all directions. It's the easiest pathway for rapid innovation, whereas the Catholic church is old and corrupted, in addition to being largely useless as we can see with Pope Francis.

    The trouble is that making this case in our current cultural milieu is not easy and even those who would be sympathetic are so only on an intellectual level (like me) without being fully engaged in a personal sense. I've never believed in the afterlife, in heaven or in hell, and I don't think I can pretend or force myself to suddenly start. I'm far from alone in this.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Barbarossa

    Despite the anti-Protestantism bend some have pushed here, it is the most radical of the denominations in all directions.

    “Protestantism” can mean lots of things, e.g. there’s quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you’d have to be more precise what you have in mind. Also, what does “radical” mean here?

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    “Protestantism” can mean lots of things, e.g. there’s quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you’d have to be more precise what you have in mind.
     
    I wouldn't promote an existing stream within Protestantism given that most of them have failed. Many more hardline factions have degenerated into quackery (your example of Pentecostalism is a good example). Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people's concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.

    In other words, don't bother too much with the formal symbolism and instead fuss over things like familial breakdown, alienation and forming a stronger community. Tailor the religion to those needs rather than trying to take an existing structure (which has failed so far) and attempt to shoe-horn it the social challenges in which it has manifestly failed to address.

    Also, what does “radical” mean here?
     
    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the 'charismatic' tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.

    As an aside, I think Protestantism is the best possible candidate not just because it is easiest to mold but also because it allows for priests to be married, which limits pedophilia and other social evils.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @silviosilver, @Barbarossa

  774. sher singh says:

    Wanted to announce that Das no longer “hates” the Abrahamics, only cow slaughter.
    Which is not part of their tradition, came to this realization during Chandi Di Var with Sword in hand.

    We’ve had our fights over the years, but this is all.
    Cow-killers will be put to the Sword as did the Tribe of Levi to the fallen Israelites||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @sher singh

    Sorry bub. As an inveterate Irishman I've got butter flowing through my veins and in these Northern climes it's pretty hard to make hay for a whole bunch of useless eater bull calves. Thus they find their way into my freezer, though I do promise you they live the good life while they still walk the earth.

    It's all well and good for folks in a climate where stuff grows all year long to have a bunch useless cows running around being objects of veneration. It's a little different around these parts, and I don't think I'd be doing them any great service by turning them loose in November to forage.

    I guess you'll just have to lump me in with the cow killers faction and try putting me to the sword sometime. Good luck with that and trying to keep all those sacred cows in a winter wonderland.

    And a Happy New Year to you too!

    Replies: @sher singh

  775. @AP
    @Dmitry

    I just found out that he lived a few blocks from my wife’s place where I stay when we visit Moscow. We must have passed each other in the street occasionally.

    Him being naked suggests that the killer (or rather, the person ordering the killing) wanted to humiliate him.

    Replies: @sudden death

    IIRC, Prosvirnin relatively recently publicly called Putin gay or pederast, so if that was some unnatural outside forces/causes, it may be Nemtsov-like situation, who called Putin as fucked by somebody (“jobnutyj”) sometime before the killing.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @sudden death

    Rapper Morgenshtern called Putin "loh" (dumbass). And then called the Victory Parade a waste of money and "dated". Offended the biggest skrepa. Then had to get on a plane very quickly and leave the country.

    Well, for an assassination to have happened, there must have been someone else in the apartment besides him and his wife. Unless she pushed him, but he's a heavy guy. He had been the one screaming mostly and inebriated. Is there a video of the window / balcony? There should be a ton of security cameras on the Tverskoy Blvd.

    , @Svidomyatheart
    @sudden death

    well..."jobnutyi or ебанутый" is more like fucked up in the head...

  776. @Dmitry
    @AP

    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.

    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.

    Also from what I could read, his views are imperialist, more than nationalist.

    Imperialist views are supported by the authorities, whereas nationalist views are repressed. His website had been blocked which would imply it had published some nationalist content. However, there was never any prosecution of him, which would imply it cannot have been very much of a controversial nationalist content there.

    He is with a knife and gas cannister when he jumps from the balcony.
    https://twitter.com/YaltaInExil/status/1475483919780917255

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Anatoly Karlin

    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.

    You’re generally right, but last year there was at least one savage and disproportionate persecution of a monarchist / imperialist. Forgot his name, but it was a friend of Colonel Kvachkov’s, a very minor figure, who had done a few very small demos, where he said a few, one may say, somewhat aggressive things. And that’s it. 15 years in a colony. What they give to murderers. So yea… last year the political persecutions were across the board… including communists… and now we see even rappers.

    Btw, did you hear about the closure of Memorial and the historian who was researching Stalin’s crimes who was also given 15 years just this week?

    [MORE]

    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.

    Some of the far right types are indeed unstable (not all or most, of course, but some with a particular constitution). What you might find interesting is that over Christmas one of our religious leaders in his address highlighted the following: Covid has divided our society and has revealed surprising things about the people we live with, things we did not know were there. The Archbishop encouraged to forgive and to not dwell on those things, even pretend they weren’t there, brush over and live on.

    This kind of resonates with the things Prosvirnin tweeted recently about his relationship. It sounds like they were fighting over the marriage dynamic, who will be the one on top or maybe he wasn’t getting enough respect (and that can be subjective). “I lived daily with her for 6 years and now I learned things about her I had no idea about. I don’t wish it upon anybody.”. Granted, this can happen in any relationship, especially around the 6-7 year mark, but the lockdown really just exacerbates that. And can lead to extreme outcomes.

    This is a very volatile time for many families. Those who did not have a strong foundation to begin with, could slip through the cracks or worse, perish…

    Btw, where he lived, that’s a nice house in a nice address.

    Poor mother… her wail was so chilling. Нидай Бог! May all our sons be protected.

  777. @sudden death
    @AP

    IIRC, Prosvirnin relatively recently publicly called Putin gay or pederast, so if that was some unnatural outside forces/causes, it may be Nemtsov-like situation, who called Putin as fucked by somebody ("jobnutyj") sometime before the killing.

    Replies: @LatW, @Svidomyatheart

    Rapper Morgenshtern called Putin “loh” (dumbass). And then called the Victory Parade a waste of money and “dated”. Offended the biggest skrepa. Then had to get on a plane very quickly and leave the country.

    Well, for an assassination to have happened, there must have been someone else in the apartment besides him and his wife. Unless she pushed him, but he’s a heavy guy. He had been the one screaming mostly and inebriated. Is there a video of the window / balcony? There should be a ton of security cameras on the Tverskoy Blvd.

  778. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Dandelion greens are best young, before the flowers bloom. They get more bitter after that but are certainly still edible.
    I've also seen dandelion flower cookies, which were fine. I've never tried battering and frying the flowers though, which is supposedly good. Perhaps I'll try it next year.
    My dietary rule is "All things in moderation", so I like my rabbit food along with my meat and starches! My metabolism tends to run hot, so I also need plenty of it!

    Replies: @iffen, @songbird

    Poke salat!

    [MORE]

    Polk Salad Annie
    Tony Joe White, Johnny Hallyday
    Now some of y’all never been down South too much
    I’m gonna tell you a little bit about this
    So that you’ll understand what I’m talking about

    Down there we have a plant that grows out in the woods and the fields
    Looks somethin’ like a turnip green
    Everybody calls it polk salad, polk salad, huh

    Used to know a girl that lived down there
    And she’d go out in the evenings and pick her a mess of it
    Carry it home and cook it for supper
    ‘Cause that’s about all they had to eat
    They did all right

    Down in Louisiana
    Where the alligators grow so mean
    There lived a girl that I swear to the world
    Made the alligators look tame

    Polk salad Annie, polk salad Annie
    Everybody said it was a shame
    ‘Cause her mama was working on a chain-gang
    A mean business woman, huh

    Now, everyday ‘fore supper time
    She’d go down by the truck patch
    And pick her a mess o’ polk salad
    And carry it home in a tote sack

    Polk salad Annie
    The gators got your granny
    Chomp, chomp, chomp
    Everybody said it was a shame
    ‘Cause her mama was a-workin’ on a chain gang
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin’ woman, hehe
    Lord have mercy, pick a mess of it

    Huh
    Her daddy was lazy and no count
    Claimed he had a bad back
    All her brothers were fit for
    Was stealin’ watermelons out of my truck patch

    Polk salad Annie
    The gators got your granny, woo hoo
    Everybody said it was a shame
    ‘Cause her mama was a-working on a chain gang

    Sock a little polk salad to me
    You know I need a mean mess of it
    Ooh, oh, good God
    Ooh, oh, oh, oh, oh
    Got to have me
    Hey, love
    Huh

    • Thanks: Max Demian
  779. @sudden death
    @AP

    IIRC, Prosvirnin relatively recently publicly called Putin gay or pederast, so if that was some unnatural outside forces/causes, it may be Nemtsov-like situation, who called Putin as fucked by somebody ("jobnutyj") sometime before the killing.

    Replies: @LatW, @Svidomyatheart

    well…”jobnutyi or ебанутый” is more like fucked up in the head…

  780. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world.
     
    imo Francis' comments on the causes of poverty are pure demagoguery, it's just endless rants about greed, as if everything could be reduced to character flaws and the sins of profit-oriented capitalists. His comments also reinforce the idea that "we" (people in the global North collectively") are only rich, because "they" (people in the global South) are exploited and kept in poverty, which imo is a really pernicious view and potentially encourages all kind of revenge fantasies. Also, what would mean "dismantling the neo-liberal economic system" even mean in practice? Debt forgiveness for poorer countries, making it possible for them to pursue protectionist policies to build up industries etc.? Ok, some of that certainly would be sensible in any case, but what reason is there to expect that everything will then be fine, given ingrained cultures of corruption and, to be frank, lack of human capital in many global South societies?
    Regarding abortion, personally I'm not a fan of it (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized and does raise some questions about the nature of our societies), but imo it's very questionable that it could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree, and the Catholic church there seems to some extent to have moved on from the issue anyway. And that applies even more to contraception, where official Catholic teachings are simply seen as ridiculous by most people in Europe (and imo with good reason, tbh "Breed and multiply, God will take care of it" is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted).
    So I don't think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality...but that's unlikely to happen anyway. imo it's far more likely that the Church in Western Europe will further accomodate itself to progressive sensibilities on many sexual and social issues, but focus on promotion of immigration and antiracism (and here it has significant lobbying powers), which is in line with the hegemonic culture and brings a certain prestige and relevance.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Coconuts, @Max Demian

    So I don’t think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality

    You are rejecting Catholic Social Teaching because you don’t think it would contribute anything to the solution of any of Western Europe’s ills, because your own (eth-nat?) analysis is supposed to contribute something of value? Because it is widely taken seriously by populations in Western Europe?

    Is there a need to answer these questions?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    because your own (eth-nat?) analysis is supposed to contribute something of value? Because it is widely taken seriously by populations in Western Europe?
     
    I have no illusions about my perspective being taken seriously or finding mainstream acceptance, and I don't think I've ever claimed anything of the sort (nor have I ever proposed some kind of programme for the organization of society). Whether it's supposed to contribute "something of value"? Sounds a bit like the usual condemnations of any point of view that isn't framed in universalist platitudes. If you think I'm some delusional Nazi monster, you can state so openly.
    But I ask again: What would "dismantling the neo-liberal economic system" actually mean in practice, in terms of specific policy proposals? What makes you think Francis' economic ideas would be a solution for the problems of Pakistan, Egypt or Nigeria? Why should one assume everything will just change magically for the better in the Global South, if only the alleged exploitation by Western capitalists stops?
    imo your type of argument is just wishful thinking, attractive to people who are at least somewhat bothered by mass migration, but are unwilling to take a really hard line. So there's this idea, if "we" only change our sinful ways, stop consumerism and the exploitation of the 3rd world, have more children again and follow the church, then everything will turn out ok and we won't have to be "mean" and turn migrants away, because they won't be trying to come anyway. I think that's an illusion (and also some strange power fantasy in a way, as if everything in the world revolved around white Westerners, and we could "fix" the world, if only we cared more or weren't so mindlessly exploitative), but if you want to put your hopes in it, I'm not going to argue about it.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  781. Is there a need to answer these questions?

    GR’s ethnic nationalism could contribute and accomplish quite a bit, a stupendous amount as a matter of fact, but he has little to no chance of its acceptance.

    Catholic Social Teaching has only a slightly greater chance of acceptance and would accomplish very little, if anything.

  782. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Dandelion greens are best young, before the flowers bloom. They get more bitter after that but are certainly still edible.
    I've also seen dandelion flower cookies, which were fine. I've never tried battering and frying the flowers though, which is supposedly good. Perhaps I'll try it next year.
    My dietary rule is "All things in moderation", so I like my rabbit food along with my meat and starches! My metabolism tends to run hot, so I also need plenty of it!

    Replies: @iffen, @songbird

    I think there’s kind of weird flipside to the old point about people eating better than the kings of old, due to supermarkets:

    We’ve been alienated from some of the old foods that our ancestors ate, not too long ago. The forage of wild plants that they had to make in summer, as they nearly starved, before they took in their harvest. The many local varieties of things like apples.

    I remember being a little kid, visiting Ireland. We were with some people who had sheep, and I was pulling up stuff to try to feed them, and pulled up some nettles (not knowing what they were) – and regretted it. But that is exactly the sort of stuff that people used to eat.

    I wonder whether countries where people are more culturally inclined to eat mushrooms have kept up a better general culture of foraging. I would guess so. What is it about mushrooms that seem to motivate people more than many other plants or berries? On Christmas someone was telling me that they started adding mushrooms to all their food, and had trouble finding the right ones at the supermarket.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Well, probably as you've already found out, mushrooms can be a gourmet's delight unlike nettles. :-)

    "ThePractical Mushroom Encyclopedia: Identifying, Picking and Cooking" is one of the best books about the art of mushroom foraging and cooking that you'll find anywhere. Highy recommended:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51F6QD75SQL._SX345_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    I fondly remember my discussions with Bashibuzuk about all things having to do with mushrooms.

    Replies: @songbird, @Dmitry

    , @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    On eating like kings today, I think it can be rather relative. There are so many really amazing foods which have been left by the wayside of industrialized agriculture, not to mention the pale imitations in most supermarkets. Anyone who has had a fresh in season strawberry or tomato compared to the pale sad replacements in the supermarket knows what I'm talking about. Turns out that a fruit capable of being shipped 1500 miles may not taste that great.

    The milk I'm getting from my cow right now is so rich and creamy that it really is impossible to compare with milk from the store. The cream is so thick on top that it's the consistency of sour cream. That makes some good coffee!

    It's rather a shame that so few people will hardly ever taste a real strawberry or drink real milk. But in the past starvation was an often looming threat, so I'm thankful that I can go to the store. Nowadays, people can starve nutritionally while being 400lbs, so some perversity is inherent in our current system.

    As far as enjoyment goes, we are so surrounded by extreme and unnatural foods that our taste buds really are rather warped. An orange for Christmas really would have been an incredible and treasured taste 150 years ago where today we are so overwhelmed by sweet that the same taste is a let-down. It's kind of like food-porn or drug addiction. An over stimulation causes the initial pleasure sensation to fade and for increasingly extreme jolts to reawaken it. In the end, it drowns out all subtlety of palette, which is hardly desirable.
    There are a lot of heavily processed foods that I happily ate as a kid which just taste revoltingly sweet, salty, or mostly like chemicals to me now.



    I don't have time to do as much foraging as I would like but we do get to some.
    Spring leeks are always a great treat directly after maple syrup season and I do have lots of your favorite, wild raspberries, in the field. The bears like those as well and always leave a rather broad path through the brambles.

    There are also lot's of feral apples all around free for the taking. I hate most store apples
    so I rarely eat apples out of season. Red Delicious should probably be renamed "Dry Cardboard".

    As far as mushrooms go, we had a friend give us about 30lbs of chicken of the woods (not to be confused with Chicken of the Sea) which was very good. It had a nutty mild flavor and a texture that really was extremely like chicken when sauteed right. I'm pretty sure that one could use that in chicken dishes with many being none the wiser that it was not chicken.

  783. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    So I don’t think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality

     

    You are rejecting Catholic Social Teaching because you don't think it would contribute anything to the solution of any of Western Europe's ills, because your own (eth-nat?) analysis is supposed to contribute something of value? Because it is widely taken seriously by populations in Western Europe?

    Is there a need to answer these questions?

    Replies: @German_reader

    because your own (eth-nat?) analysis is supposed to contribute something of value? Because it is widely taken seriously by populations in Western Europe?

    I have no illusions about my perspective being taken seriously or finding mainstream acceptance, and I don’t think I’ve ever claimed anything of the sort (nor have I ever proposed some kind of programme for the organization of society). Whether it’s supposed to contribute “something of value”? Sounds a bit like the usual condemnations of any point of view that isn’t framed in universalist platitudes. If you think I’m some delusional Nazi monster, you can state so openly.
    But I ask again: What would “dismantling the neo-liberal economic system” actually mean in practice, in terms of specific policy proposals? What makes you think Francis’ economic ideas would be a solution for the problems of Pakistan, Egypt or Nigeria? Why should one assume everything will just change magically for the better in the Global South, if only the alleged exploitation by Western capitalists stops?
    imo your type of argument is just wishful thinking, attractive to people who are at least somewhat bothered by mass migration, but are unwilling to take a really hard line. So there’s this idea, if “we” only change our sinful ways, stop consumerism and the exploitation of the 3rd world, have more children again and follow the church, then everything will turn out ok and we won’t have to be “mean” and turn migrants away, because they won’t be trying to come anyway. I think that’s an illusion (and also some strange power fantasy in a way, as if everything in the world revolved around white Westerners, and we could “fix” the world, if only we cared more or weren’t so mindlessly exploitative), but if you want to put your hopes in it, I’m not going to argue about it.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    I have no illusions about my perspective being taken seriously or finding mainstream acceptance,
    and I don’t think I’ve ever claimed anything of the sort (nor have I ever proposed some kind of programme for the organization of society). Whether it’s supposed to contribute “something of value”? Sounds a bit like the usual condemnations of any point of view that isn’t framed in universalist platitudes. If you think I’m some delusional Nazi monster, you can state so openly.
     
    I don't remember anything you have written making me think you are a Nazi, I was thinking something like Ethno-Nat Liberal, but on reflection it is hard to say. Nazis usually have at least a tacit idea of a program for the organisation of society, are interested in shared belief and some kind of political action (even if only in principle), so you may hear something interesting from them.

    If Ethno-Nat liberal is accurate you may have the kind of viewpoint that is like target no.1 for Woke identity politics, and now also has little irl backing. I don't think that this is a positive thing but it seems to be the way things are going.


    But I ask again: What would “dismantling the neo-liberal economic system” actually mean in practice, in terms of specific policy proposals?
     
    Why were you asking this? I didn't set out to provide the absolute solution to world economic development. I pointed out how, thinking mainly about Europe, if it was implemented, the Pope's teaching would be likely to bring an end to the migration problem, and would be more likely to secure the perpetuation of European peoples than what we have at the moment. Taking it as given that it ever being implemented is extremely unlikely.

    So there’s this idea, if “we” only change our sinful ways, stop consumerism and the exploitation of the 3rd world, have more children again and follow the church, then everything will turn out ok and we won’t have to be “mean” and turn migrants away, because they won’t be trying to come anyway.
     
    Practically any illiberal right wing ideology will have similar content, and parts of the left; people should stop being bugmen, adopt a less individualistic, consumer materialist worldview, have more children, once you have a healthier and less aged population and stronger political control migrants won't want to come in ever growing numbers and/or there will be public support and political will to remove them if they cause disruption.

    Being hardline on immigration is not that significant if you don't believe anyone will take your perspective seriously and there is no broader political view behind it. Equally being against universalism, why use left terms like 'colonialism' as if they are derogatory or negative? (Unless it is something directed against your own ethnic group).

    I don't really believe in Ethno-Nat liberalism and the way things are going there are going to be attempts to attack or marginalise it even more, so you are right that I won't be adopting that viewpoint at present.

    My replies may be bad tempered at the moment, I have had flu over Christmas.

    Replies: @German_reader

  784. @Dmitry
    @AP

    A nationalist would be target for assassination (which can be presented as suicide), but here is not a nationalist, as an internet activist, that apparently promoted mostly imperialism.

    He looks unstable (see YouTube), with signs of depression (e.g. obesity) and his neighbors say they were shouting with his wife earlier.

    Also from what I could read, his views are imperialist, more than nationalist.

    Imperialist views are supported by the authorities, whereas nationalist views are repressed. His website had been blocked which would imply it had published some nationalist content. However, there was never any prosecution of him, which would imply it cannot have been very much of a controversial nationalist content there.

    He is with a knife and gas cannister when he jumps from the balcony.
    https://twitter.com/YaltaInExil/status/1475483919780917255

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Anatoly Karlin

    • Thanks: Dmitry
    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In love with re-balance bots right now, greeat way to constantly buy low/sell high & diversify.
    I can scoop up all the shitcoins I want without worrying about missing pump/dump periods.

    Going to start up another one after prayers with my Matic & CPOOL, along with the SOS airdrop. :)
    Maybe, I'll throw in some BTC & ETH to round it out to 5. :)

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  785. @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I think there's kind of weird flipside to the old point about people eating better than the kings of old, due to supermarkets:

    We've been alienated from some of the old foods that our ancestors ate, not too long ago. The forage of wild plants that they had to make in summer, as they nearly starved, before they took in their harvest. The many local varieties of things like apples.

    I remember being a little kid, visiting Ireland. We were with some people who had sheep, and I was pulling up stuff to try to feed them, and pulled up some nettles (not knowing what they were) - and regretted it. But that is exactly the sort of stuff that people used to eat.

    I wonder whether countries where people are more culturally inclined to eat mushrooms have kept up a better general culture of foraging. I would guess so. What is it about mushrooms that seem to motivate people more than many other plants or berries? On Christmas someone was telling me that they started adding mushrooms to all their food, and had trouble finding the right ones at the supermarket.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    Well, probably as you’ve already found out, mushrooms can be a gourmet’s delight unlike nettles. 🙂

    “ThePractical Mushroom Encyclopedia: Identifying, Picking and Cooking” is one of the best books about the art of mushroom foraging and cooking that you’ll find anywhere. Highy recommended:

    I fondly remember my discussions with Bashibuzuk about all things having to do with mushrooms.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    BTW, what does Mr. Hack's forage basket look like? Mushrooms only? I feel like wild onions might be the thing to find.

    I try to think of what family lore I can, and can only remember the old people talking about different wildberries. Blueberries, especially. Though, I could possibly be missing a lot, as I didn't have the imagination to ask what they ate, when they were around.

    My absolute favorite wild plant is red raspberries. Just the smell of them is really something. Though blueberries, strawberries and black raspberries are quite good, and I think especially good, if you add them to vanilla ice cream. But, I think a lot of people are turned off by the bugs. Maybe, that is part of the draw of mushrooms - less bugs.

    My grandmother used to have some idea about what type of blueberries are best for baking things, but I can't remember which.

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Did you try to eat the dark (Tuscany) kale yet?

    It's this one (also called "Dino kale", "Lacinato kale") with the long thin leaf. It really tastes a lot more delicious than other kale, in my opinion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_JusbgutuI

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  786. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Well, probably as you've already found out, mushrooms can be a gourmet's delight unlike nettles. :-)

    "ThePractical Mushroom Encyclopedia: Identifying, Picking and Cooking" is one of the best books about the art of mushroom foraging and cooking that you'll find anywhere. Highy recommended:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51F6QD75SQL._SX345_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    I fondly remember my discussions with Bashibuzuk about all things having to do with mushrooms.

    Replies: @songbird, @Dmitry

    BTW, what does Mr. Hack’s forage basket look like? Mushrooms only? I feel like wild onions might be the thing to find.

    I try to think of what family lore I can, and can only remember the old people talking about different wildberries. Blueberries, especially. Though, I could possibly be missing a lot, as I didn’t have the imagination to ask what they ate, when they were around.

    My absolute favorite wild plant is red raspberries. Just the smell of them is really something. Though blueberries, strawberries and black raspberries are quite good, and I think especially good, if you add them to vanilla ice cream. But, I think a lot of people are turned off by the bugs. Maybe, that is part of the draw of mushrooms – less bugs.

    My grandmother used to have some idea about what type of blueberries are best for baking things, but I can’t remember which.

    • Replies: @Svidomyatheart
    @songbird

    Id say you typically dont mix berries with mushrooms...typically you shouldnt mix different types of mushrooms in the same basket(especially if some are slimy and others arent, its annoying to clean them afterwards)

    I remember picking Dog Rose(the rosehips themselves that is) and that was done in the summer and I hated it because it would get hot and there was nowhere to go from the scorching heat and we would stay there all day. Oh and they would sting if you werent careful.

    Those we would dry out on trays and use them with tea.

    Then I remember picking blueberries with the whole family when younger. We would drive for what seemed like an eternity to this one place and the adults would never let us out of sight because you had to go into swampy areas, and we all had knee high rubber boots on and sometimes step in the wrong place you would sink in knee deep into the bog.

    Then my favorite was picking mushrooms. Usually was done in the autumn. It would get chilly like 5-7celsius. October-November time. We would mostly pick Armillaria mellea and Cantharēllus cibārius which would be all over the place. Very common.

    The more rare ones were birch bolete and Leccinum albostipitatum. I remember my younger self being very proud if I found any of these above it would be like mission accomplished thing.

    We would marinate most of them into glass jars but some mushrooms would be fried right away. The cleaning part was super annoying I clearly remember that...all kinds of grass, sticks, and other things would get stuck on the mushroom gills

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    My foraging basket only included mushrooms and was almost always filled during the late summer/early autumn months. These months were also generally good for fishing too and therefore if the fish weren't jumping then the mushrooms might be popping, and vice versa. If neither was showing any good results, the old barbecue and shashlyk would serve a useful purpose. :-)

    , @AP
    @songbird

    The best wild blueberries I have had, were in Maine. The best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

    Replies: @utu, @utu

  787. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    BTW, what does Mr. Hack's forage basket look like? Mushrooms only? I feel like wild onions might be the thing to find.

    I try to think of what family lore I can, and can only remember the old people talking about different wildberries. Blueberries, especially. Though, I could possibly be missing a lot, as I didn't have the imagination to ask what they ate, when they were around.

    My absolute favorite wild plant is red raspberries. Just the smell of them is really something. Though blueberries, strawberries and black raspberries are quite good, and I think especially good, if you add them to vanilla ice cream. But, I think a lot of people are turned off by the bugs. Maybe, that is part of the draw of mushrooms - less bugs.

    My grandmother used to have some idea about what type of blueberries are best for baking things, but I can't remember which.

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    Id say you typically dont mix berries with mushrooms…typically you shouldnt mix different types of mushrooms in the same basket(especially if some are slimy and others arent, its annoying to clean them afterwards)

    I remember picking Dog Rose(the rosehips themselves that is) and that was done in the summer and I hated it because it would get hot and there was nowhere to go from the scorching heat and we would stay there all day. Oh and they would sting if you werent careful.

    Those we would dry out on trays and use them with tea.

    Then I remember picking blueberries with the whole family when younger. We would drive for what seemed like an eternity to this one place and the adults would never let us out of sight because you had to go into swampy areas, and we all had knee high rubber boots on and sometimes step in the wrong place you would sink in knee deep into the bog.

    Then my favorite was picking mushrooms. Usually was done in the autumn. It would get chilly like 5-7celsius. October-November time. We would mostly pick Armillaria mellea and Cantharēllus cibārius which would be all over the place. Very common.

    The more rare ones were birch bolete and Leccinum albostipitatum. I remember my younger self being very proud if I found any of these above it would be like mission accomplished thing.

    We would marinate most of them into glass jars but some mushrooms would be fried right away. The cleaning part was super annoying I clearly remember that…all kinds of grass, sticks, and other things would get stuck on the mushroom gills

    • Thanks: songbird, Barbarossa
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Svidomyatheart


    Cantharēllus cibārius
     
    I love to make a sauce out of these (favorite childhood recipe), with little bits of ham and cream, with boiled potatoes. After picking wild blueberries, we put them in a bowl and poured some milk over them as a dessert. We would also marinate boletus in glass jars, just like you guys did. We used to pick tiny wild strawberries and thread them on a grass stem.
  788. @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    In the hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descent (since very few East Asians live there): a group with the highest percentage in the South Cone, a group with the lowest percentage in Bolivia and the countries of Central America between Costa Rica and Mexico and an intermediate group with, say, Peru and Brazil.

    If these groups of countries clustered together in a metric such as per capita GDP the hypothesis would be validated and additional research would be warranted. Let's see:

    https://i.imgur.com/tiaId9S.jpg

    I don't know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites within each of these countries and seeing what the results are.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Sure I saw there are significant differences within Latin America. But Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.

    I would see 20th century Argentina as a case report, that great wealth can be lost by corrupt and incompetent politics, although being one of the wealthiest countries in the beginning of the 20th century, with a large inflow of European immigration (although under quite open borders regime, so not selecting especially for skilled immigrants).

    Only one Latin American country where the income is similar today to the source country of its immigrants is Puerto Rico (although there a majority of the population have some native descendent).

    If you were writing a case report on Argentina, you could write that high culture seemed to be carried by the later immigrants from Europe. Puerto Rico is land of Reggaeton, while Argentina has Daniel Barenboim, Astor Piazzolla (well popular culture, but a good one), Martha Argerich.

    But a contemporary Western European income level has not been produced by the European immigration to Argentina in the long run, unlike classical music, literature and architecture that were carried to Argentina.

    hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descen

    You would need to maintain all the same culture and history, while changing the genetics.

    Our discussion about income is like “case report”, so would be considered low if we were looking at medicine. But it’s entertaining to discuss.

    As a case report, we might notice that Argentina received significant immigration from Germany and Italy. So from this case report, immigration from countries which would develop high incomes by the late 20th century, would not ensure high incomes by the late 20th century.

    I don’t know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites

    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country, at least until there is a revolution or political change (so e.g. Baltic Germans do not rule Latvians and Estonians).

    I think the more notable problem of Latin America is the politics, corruption, and legal system, of these countries, which is partly in their elites, but continues after revolutions against the elites (e.g. Chavez). And this is where we need to know a lot of historical detail (to begin to understand).

    In terms of European descent, we all want our country to have German or Swedish income. But then in Ukraine, etc, having not that dissimilar genetics as Germans, and not receiving similar results to Germany. You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.
     
    1. Argentina's GDP per capita (nominal) is very erratic. At the moment it is about the same as Mexico's, but it was a lot higher then Mexico's from 2010-2018, a lot lower than Mexico's from 2002-2007, a lot higher from 1990-2000. It has been richer more often than poorer or the same. With the exception of 2002-2003, Argentina had a much higher per capita GDP than the Dominican Republic, until 2019:

    https://i.imgur.com/YAUaD61.png

    2. Perhaps because Argentina produces a lot of its own stuff, when its GDP declines it becomes correspondingly cheaper to live there. Taking this into account, Argentina has consistently had a much higher GDP PPP than Mexico and DR, with the exception of 2002-2003:

    https://i.imgur.com/4RfPG8v.png

    3. Related to that, Argentina has a much higher HDI than Mexico or DR.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

    Argentina's HDI (.845) is between that of Croatia (.851) and Montenegro (.828). It is higher than Russia's HDI (.824).

    Mexico, meanwhile, is tied with Ukraine (both .779), just barely ahead of Armenia (.776) and Macedonia (.774). DR is tied with Azerbaijan (.756), a little bit ahead of Moldova (.750).

    The point is that Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians and a lot of clever writers. The European immigration might not have had a huge impact on the nominal per capita GDP (though historically it is greater than implied by a snapshot of 2019-2020) but it made a difference in other areas.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.
     
    If your goal is to understand reality you need to look at everything, including all those factors and also factors that may be unsettling or politically incorrect. That's how I evolved from a point of view similar to yours to my current one, after being witness to lots of direct evidence by living in Latin America. Reality doesn't care about our feelings or ideologies. It is what it is. And social matters are complex enough, we don't need to limit our understanding by setting limits to what may be studied or not.

    One interesting aspect of that latest graphic of comparative wealth that you have posted is that our great grandparents 100 years ago did not care much about political correctness and had a more realistic and intuitive view of the world than ours. If you had showed them that graph of what reality would be like 100 years later for those countries, they would have been very unsurprised. Important forces seem to be at play across generations.

    Perhaps Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population (less in the poorest regions of the North).

    BTW, I know Argentina quite well and have also visited Cuba and the idea that both countries have comprable levels of wealth is laughable. It looks like the World Bank has done some creative accounting there. Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity and those of them who don't have access to hard currency (a large part of the population) live basically on a subsistence diet of basic staples with a couple of pounds of meat per month if they're lucky, while foreign tourists enjoy luxury hotels. They've actually managed to build one of the most unequal societies in the Americas.

    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country
     
    Yes, that's true to a great extent. Chile, for example, is not precisely known for being a paragon of upward mobility and right now they are in the process of dismantling everything that made them grow faster than their neighbors because it didn't bring social equality. The prevalence of old surnames with origins in the old Castilian and Basque landed aristocracy in the political and economic elites is quite surprising.

    But during my years there I got to know countless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite, while the native population remained much poorer than these recent immigrants.

    Deep inside, nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it's shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots as much as they can, living in more or less closed enclaves, but perhaps the middle and low classes are even more racist towards people who are darker than themselves. If you go through rental advertisements on the newspapers, it's very common to see notices "no Peruvians" or "no Haitians". The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

  789. Here’s another part of the Capra interview that I found interesting:

    When we were making the Why We Fight series—which was a big enough job and we had our hands full—Secretary of War Stimson sent word to me that he wanted me to make a film showing what the blacks had at stake in this country, what they had done, how they had helped develop this country, because the morale of the blacks in the Army w as very, very low. The amount of discrimination was just terrible. Well, I didn’t want to take the job on. I tried to get out of it, but couldn’t. He said, “Would you please come up here and read something?” So I went into his office and he handed me a sheaf of papers and these w ere reports of cases of discrimination that had taken place in various parts of the country, various parts of the Army. Some of them were truly unbelievable—that man could degrade his fellow human beings in so many ways. I could see what was in Secretary Stimson’s mind. So I said. “Okay—I don’t know what it’ll be like, but we ll work on it.” We went to work on it and I found out things that I didn’t know about the blacks. I found out that the first man to be killed at Bunker Hill was a black, that there was a black kid in the boat with Washington crossing the Dela­ware, there were blacks that played a very important part in our history here and there. I didn’t know these things.

  790. @AP
    @Dmitry

    So the Brits have done for the people of Israel what they did for the people of Hong Kong and Singapore. Their efforts didn’t do much for the people of Jamaica though.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Brits have done for the people of Israel

    British Empire is responsible for charming things there. Look at Tel Aviv – ok it looks terrible. Much of buildings of Tel Aviv are like a third world African country. But, its streetplan is very nice, and this city plan creates a good atmosphere.

    Well, Tel Aviv’s street plan was written by a Scottish expert, Patrick Geddes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Geddes ).

    So Tel Aviv has third world buildings. But its street plan was written from one of the world’s leading experts, during the British Empire. ​

    After independence, Israel starts planning new cities, and their designs appear very Russian/Soviet – the urban planning culture of the Jewish immigrant experts from the Russian Empire becomes more apparent, rather than the culture of the British Empire experts that had ruled the Mandate Palestine.

    Quality of their building improved a lot with each decade post 1960s. This Russian/Soviet urban planning is also probably successful in practical ways. But you can regret that the British Empire was not there anymore with experts like Patrick Geddes, who wrote the design of less uniform Tel Aviv.

    Their efforts didn’t do much for the people of Jamaica though.

    Jamaica seems to have a lot of problems, at least from 1970s. But these other islands like Anguilla, Turks and Caicos, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Bahamas, seem to be enjoying British influence or rule.

    Mostly they are not independent however, still with some extent to British rule like in Jersey. Only Bahamas has been independent of the British Empire for 50 years.

  791. @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    I think there's kind of weird flipside to the old point about people eating better than the kings of old, due to supermarkets:

    We've been alienated from some of the old foods that our ancestors ate, not too long ago. The forage of wild plants that they had to make in summer, as they nearly starved, before they took in their harvest. The many local varieties of things like apples.

    I remember being a little kid, visiting Ireland. We were with some people who had sheep, and I was pulling up stuff to try to feed them, and pulled up some nettles (not knowing what they were) - and regretted it. But that is exactly the sort of stuff that people used to eat.

    I wonder whether countries where people are more culturally inclined to eat mushrooms have kept up a better general culture of foraging. I would guess so. What is it about mushrooms that seem to motivate people more than many other plants or berries? On Christmas someone was telling me that they started adding mushrooms to all their food, and had trouble finding the right ones at the supermarket.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    On eating like kings today, I think it can be rather relative. There are so many really amazing foods which have been left by the wayside of industrialized agriculture, not to mention the pale imitations in most supermarkets. Anyone who has had a fresh in season strawberry or tomato compared to the pale sad replacements in the supermarket knows what I’m talking about. Turns out that a fruit capable of being shipped 1500 miles may not taste that great.

    The milk I’m getting from my cow right now is so rich and creamy that it really is impossible to compare with milk from the store. The cream is so thick on top that it’s the consistency of sour cream. That makes some good coffee!

    It’s rather a shame that so few people will hardly ever taste a real strawberry or drink real milk. But in the past starvation was an often looming threat, so I’m thankful that I can go to the store. Nowadays, people can starve nutritionally while being 400lbs, so some perversity is inherent in our current system.

    As far as enjoyment goes, we are so surrounded by extreme and unnatural foods that our taste buds really are rather warped. An orange for Christmas really would have been an incredible and treasured taste 150 years ago where today we are so overwhelmed by sweet that the same taste is a let-down. It’s kind of like food-porn or drug addiction. An over stimulation causes the initial pleasure sensation to fade and for increasingly extreme jolts to reawaken it. In the end, it drowns out all subtlety of palette, which is hardly desirable.
    There are a lot of heavily processed foods that I happily ate as a kid which just taste revoltingly sweet, salty, or mostly like chemicals to me now.

    [MORE]

    I don’t have time to do as much foraging as I would like but we do get to some.
    Spring leeks are always a great treat directly after maple syrup season and I do have lots of your favorite, wild raspberries, in the field. The bears like those as well and always leave a rather broad path through the brambles.

    There are also lot’s of feral apples all around free for the taking. I hate most store apples
    so I rarely eat apples out of season. Red Delicious should probably be renamed “Dry Cardboard”.

    As far as mushrooms go, we had a friend give us about 30lbs of chicken of the woods (not to be confused with Chicken of the Sea) which was very good. It had a nutty mild flavor and a texture that really was extremely like chicken when sauteed right. I’m pretty sure that one could use that in chicken dishes with many being none the wiser that it was not chicken.

    • Thanks: songbird
  792. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    But Morgenshtern’s video is with Abduroziq, who is Hasbik’s nemesis.

    Kadyrov wanted to arrange Hasbik to fight with Abduroziq, but it looks their fight might go UFC.

    Anyway don’t you feel perhaps we can say “subtle support” for your theory, when Morgenshtern releases his first video with Abduroziq in this context?
     
    Oh, if it's the other fellow then indeed that changes things and that's a whole new angle. That's almost a little bit provocative. :) But you see how subtle it still is... Morgentshtern doesn't state anything openly, just for some reason invites Abduroziq. He's very good at these subtle gestures and light mockery. It's almost similar to how poets in the 80s in the Soviet Union used figurative language to express dissident thoughts.

    Oh, no, now I'm a little worried about Abduroziq because Khasbik is ultra-masculine and could win. Anyway, is it ok from the ethical POV to incite little people into fighting an MMA match to make a spectacle out of it?

    However, you know by Western standards, my political views would be mostly considered centre-right-wing at best. Which I would prefer not to be called, but this is where my opinions would be categorized.
     
    You know, it's a little bit like "a liberal boomer racist", typically some dude from Russia, who listens to Western music, disliked communism and supports the West, but has "racist" ideas about immigration and the like. You're just a younger version of that type. Don't know if you've heard of the one Artem Troitsky, who left Russia and is very pro-Western but when it comes to immigration he holds very strict views and all the so called "liberalism" goes out the window.

    I would love you as Minister of Immigration of a G7 country, or perhaps leader Switzerland or Monaco.
     
    Well, countries such as Switzerland and Monaco... maybe we shouldn't disturb their peace, but for the US, Canada and EU as a whole Eastern Slavs would be a drop in the ocean.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    You’re just a younger version of that type

    I wouldn’t say my views (for little anyone should be interested in them), are like that, as I am not automatically “pro-Western”.

    I’m mostly apolitical. Just I think there are very valuable things we need to secure from politics (civil liberty, privacy, transparency, anti-corruption, property rights, balance of public/private) which are still relatively better appreciated in some Western countries, but this is not guaranteed by being in a Western bloc.

    We know America is often threatening to covert away from these valuable things. While in theory, Russia could have become such a country where power would respect your rights, and act as a servant, even without needing to join Western blocs, but obviously it has become naïve to expect this after more than a century of Chekistan, and even not promising antecedents in the Russian Empire.

    such as Switzerland and Monaco… maybe we shouldn’t disturb their peace, but for the US, Canada and EU as a whole Eastern Slavs would be a drop in the ocean.

    Lol, to be fair, Switzerland and Monaco are currently end destinations, of Russian money. They are beneficiaries if anything of current dynamics.

    Btw, where he lived, that’s a nice house in a nice address.

    AP has already written. Tverskoy boulevard. Central Moscow.

    At least your financial health cannot be too bad, if you are lucky to be neighbor of one of AP’s landholdings. But mental health is another reality.

  793. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Well, probably as you've already found out, mushrooms can be a gourmet's delight unlike nettles. :-)

    "ThePractical Mushroom Encyclopedia: Identifying, Picking and Cooking" is one of the best books about the art of mushroom foraging and cooking that you'll find anywhere. Highy recommended:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51F6QD75SQL._SX345_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    I fondly remember my discussions with Bashibuzuk about all things having to do with mushrooms.

    Replies: @songbird, @Dmitry

    Did you try to eat the dark (Tuscany) kale yet?

    It’s this one (also called “Dino kale”, “Lacinato kale”) with the long thin leaf. It really tastes a lot more delicious than other kale, in my opinion.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry

    I can tell that you really are a fan of this type of kale, as you've brought this up twice now in the last few days. I'm not scheduled to go shopping anytime real soon, but will definitely keep my eye out for it. Phoenix grocery stores don't usually have many varieties of kale on display, but they do look different in various grocery stores. The leaves in the video were more whole in structure, whereas the ones that I'm used to are more serpentine and intricate looking. Also, I think that you mentioned that the ones that you like have more of a reddish hue to them?

  794. @Thulean Friend
    There's a lot of debate on this website about fertility. There seems to be an inverse relationship between modernity and fertility patterns. This relationship can only be bended - or broken - through religiosity. America in the 50s and 60s did it, but later rapidly secularised and fertility fell.

    Israel is an interesting case insofar as it is now an economy wealthier than the UK and France yet has a fertility rate almost twice that of Iran's (>3 per woman). Instead of empty speculation, just read about it.

    But Israel's also a cautionary tale. By 2060, a large majority of their youth will be either Haredi or Arab moslem, neither has a track record of upholding a modern and industrial economy. The secular Israelis are banking on converting religious Haredim, but this is much slower process than in the Western diaspora, for various reasons. As the Haredi share grows, the cultural pressure to conform to secular norms will also fade, making a tough task even tougher. Nevertheless, I'd rather have Israel's problem than the problem of too low fertility like most of the West and East Asia.

    I'm not a religious man, but I am slowly coming to the view that perhaps more faith in our society wouldn't be such a bad thing. Even beyond the cold and calculated instrumentalist view, it probably helps people form communities easier, reduces alienation and encourages healthier family formation habits. AP is not wrong in this regard. Obviously Christianity would be the only logical choice for the West, which would necessarily also require a fundamental revolution. Despite the anti-Protestantism bend some have pushed here, it is the most radical of the denominations in all directions. It's the easiest pathway for rapid innovation, whereas the Catholic church is old and corrupted, in addition to being largely useless as we can see with Pope Francis.

    The trouble is that making this case in our current cultural milieu is not easy and even those who would be sympathetic are so only on an intellectual level (like me) without being fully engaged in a personal sense. I've never believed in the afterlife, in heaven or in hell, and I don't think I can pretend or force myself to suddenly start. I'm far from alone in this.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Barbarossa

    I think that much of it boils down to the fact that the irreligious modernist viewpoint sees human relationships as essentially contractual in nature. There is nothing sacred, fundamentally binding, or transcendent about them. They are made to be broken when they “don’t work”. This goes to the logical extremes that one would expect and result in much of the societal decay which we see playing out around us.

    The religious viewpoint raises humanity to another level of aspiration, even if it is often not realized. The idea that a given human relationship can be sacred is a powerful one.

    As C.S. Lewis said: “Aim at Heaven and you will get Earth ‘thrown in’: aim at Earth and you will get neither.”

    Right now I am reading “Family and Civilization” by Carle C. Zimmerman originally published in 1947. It’s been interesting so far. He traces the cyclical nature of family structure through Greek, Roman, and European history; demonstrating the transitions in each from the clan type family, to the domestic family, and lastly to the atomistic or individualistic type.

    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion. Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.
    Part of this was the Churches’ insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.

    Personally, I’ve had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.

    • Agree: AP
    • Thanks: Max Demian
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks for a thoughtful comment.


    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion.

    Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.

    Part of this was the Churches’ insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.
     

    Divorce should be discouraged but not forbidden. In my extended family, I have several examples of very long-lasting marriages (still ongoing!) and what I have noticed is that almost all of them have survived because the couples learned to live somewhat separately. The couples still live under one roof but have their separate rooms where they sleep. In one case, my aunt even "sent" her husband away to work in another city while he was allowed to visit on the weekends to check in on his kids. Now they live together again, as they are helping with their grandkids.

    I think if low divorce rates are to be maintained, this kind of flexibility will be required as even couples which fit very well can't be expected to be as close as they were the initial years.

    There's also the non-trivial fact that men tend to have higher sex drives and many marriages "dry up" after some years. Prostitution is viewed negatively, but I don't see any other way out than to be pragmatic on this issue, unless you want to be more permissible on divorce. If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews). Men's urges are what they are and this what I meant when I wrote to German_reader earlier that religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people's needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.

    Personally, I’ve had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.
     

    I think a personal challenge for me is that I am quite content with my life, warts and all. So the ballast of stability that religion would provide me is limited.

    My advocacy is based on what I see around me, at the social level. People are not feeling well. I have liberal instincts and would not want to see women's rights desecrated in the name of spirituality, but at the same time I can't see how either men or women are happy with casual dating. I know lots of people who rode that carousel and feel lousy now. Hell, even former Sex and the City stars are now admitting that they miss having children.

    Family formation is very important and only religion seem to have a strong impact on people. It's impossible to have a sane discussion with liberal and left-leaning people on these issues due to rampant secularism. Some of their concerns are valid, however, as they pertain to the limitation of individual rights. If someone wants to lead a child-free life they should be allowed to do so, but I don't think it's a healthy rolemodel for society. I also don't think we shouldn't be judgemental, since toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Max Demian, @Barbarossa

  795. @sher singh
    Wanted to announce that Das no longer "hates" the Abrahamics, only cow slaughter.
    Which is not part of their tradition, came to this realization during Chandi Di Var with Sword in hand.

    We've had our fights over the years, but this is all.
    Cow-killers will be put to the Sword as did the Tribe of Levi to the fallen Israelites||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Sorry bub. As an inveterate Irishman I’ve got butter flowing through my veins and in these Northern climes it’s pretty hard to make hay for a whole bunch of useless eater bull calves. Thus they find their way into my freezer, though I do promise you they live the good life while they still walk the earth.

    It’s all well and good for folks in a climate where stuff grows all year long to have a bunch useless cows running around being objects of veneration. It’s a little different around these parts, and I don’t think I’d be doing them any great service by turning them loose in November to forage.

    I guess you’ll just have to lump me in with the cow killers faction and try putting me to the sword sometime. Good luck with that and trying to keep all those sacred cows in a winter wonderland.

    And a Happy New Year to you too!

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Barbarossa

    Cow = female dairy cow. I don't think bulls are included, but Sri Krishna stopped bull sacrifice.
    There would obviously be cow shelters funded similar to upkeep for widows who don't want to do Sati.

    How is the climate in the Zagros mountains of Iran or the Russian steppe, both places w/ Gou Raksha.
    I'm not offended, and while Vedic New Year is in Jan; Sikhs start in March (Chet) but thanx.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  796. sher singh says:
    @Barbarossa
    @sher singh

    Sorry bub. As an inveterate Irishman I've got butter flowing through my veins and in these Northern climes it's pretty hard to make hay for a whole bunch of useless eater bull calves. Thus they find their way into my freezer, though I do promise you they live the good life while they still walk the earth.

    It's all well and good for folks in a climate where stuff grows all year long to have a bunch useless cows running around being objects of veneration. It's a little different around these parts, and I don't think I'd be doing them any great service by turning them loose in November to forage.

    I guess you'll just have to lump me in with the cow killers faction and try putting me to the sword sometime. Good luck with that and trying to keep all those sacred cows in a winter wonderland.

    And a Happy New Year to you too!

    Replies: @sher singh

    Cow = female dairy cow. I don’t think bulls are included, but Sri Krishna stopped bull sacrifice.
    There would obviously be cow shelters funded similar to upkeep for widows who don’t want to do Sati.

    How is the climate in the Zagros mountains of Iran or the Russian steppe, both places w/ Gou Raksha.
    I’m not offended, and while Vedic New Year is in Jan; Sikhs start in March (Chet) but thanx.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @sher singh

    I would never actually want to slaughter my milk cow and intend on her receiving a well deserved retirement once when she no longer is capable of producing. A faithful animal is well worth that.

    I can certainly understand the sentiment there.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  797. @sher singh
    @Barbarossa

    Cow = female dairy cow. I don't think bulls are included, but Sri Krishna stopped bull sacrifice.
    There would obviously be cow shelters funded similar to upkeep for widows who don't want to do Sati.

    How is the climate in the Zagros mountains of Iran or the Russian steppe, both places w/ Gou Raksha.
    I'm not offended, and while Vedic New Year is in Jan; Sikhs start in March (Chet) but thanx.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I would never actually want to slaughter my milk cow and intend on her receiving a well deserved retirement once when she no longer is capable of producing. A faithful animal is well worth that.

    I can certainly understand the sentiment there.

    • Thanks: sher singh
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    I'm curious to know what the funeral for a favorite cow might look like, after the well deserved and long retirement? (I'm just an ignorant city boy, so cut me some slack).

    A Ukrainian lady that I know to this day cannot eat beef because when she was a girl she was heavily involved with the care of cows. Pigs and chickens were for eating, cows were for milking.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  798. ..civil liberty, privacy, transparency, anti-corruption, property rights, balance of public/private… which are still relatively better appreciated in some Western countries, but this is not guaranteed by being in a Western bloc.

    Well, those are very important values that we take for granted, personal freedoms in particular and rule of law. Things that ideally should be balanced with national/folk or state interests. Not that I’m saying you’re necessarily pro-Western but at least not hostile to the West. For instance, would someone like Yuri Dud’ be a better example here? Not sure about his deeper political convictions and he’s a media personality and has to keep certain appearances, but isn’t he some liberal hipster type who on the other hand would not be a big fan of Western style woke if you asked him? That’s just my impression. The likes of him, Varlamov, and those types of personalities.

    [MORE]

    Russia could have become such a country where power would respect your rights, and act as a servant, even without needing to join Western blocs, but obviously it has become naïve to expect this after more than a century of Chekistan, and even not promising antecedents in the Russian Empire.

    In the future maybe… but a good thing about Russia is that it’s not micro managed to the smallest detail, that, too, limits freedom.

    Switzerland and Monaco are currently end destinations, of Russian money. They are beneficiaries if anything of current dynamics.

    Well, maybe they should send a 100K Max Korzh lookalikes to the EU. 🙂

    Btw, did you hear that Roman Abramovich got Portuguese citizenship. Apparently, he couldn’t get British.

    Tverskoy boulevard. Central Moscow.

    Of course, I know where it is. It’s within the boulevard ring, close to the Bolshoi. He was apparently renting there. Which I’m thinking would be at least \$1000 per month. Maybe the wife is ambitious… Anyway… you’re right, a human being is very complex, one can live in a nice place and still be troubled. Especially the intellectual / romantic types are prone to that, in some ways, it’s easier to be a more simple person. The lockdown is actually very dangerous that way, there is unnecessary pressure.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    you’re necessarily pro-Western but at least not hostile to the West

     

    I'd think I'm relatively nonpolitical, although perhaps I seem to show more strong opinions or emotions here than in real life. It's like we're different in the internet, than in real life. Almost all Russians I've known which emigrated, have more strong opposition emotions, than I can provide. And plenty which doesn't emigrate too.

    I'd like to evolve to a Latin American stoicism about the politics of the home country. Have you asked Mexicans or Brazilians about their country's politics, when they can say "yes it's fucked", with a smile?

    Also from my own views, I'm becoming less involved to Russia each year. So you do not have to match me to views inside Russia. I'm actually hearing in personal life, more of politics in Western Europe, in Poland. And in my interests, I become more interested in politics of other countries. It seems like I'm a politics nerd about Russia here, but it's because I'm comfortable to post that here, not because I'm really involved or having strong views.

    I guess you are similar, perhaps you like to talk less about yourself?


    likes of him, Varlamov, and those types of personalities.
     
    He's a professional blogger or provocateur, who tries to create strong emotions to generate clickbait. (So I would hope my views are not too similar).

    But, his views would be categorized as "right wing, social liberal" in the West. He has almost a Pim Fortuyn views about immigration.

    I think all these people like Varlamov, Sobchak and Navalny, are such "right wing, social liberal". In many ways, their views can seem quite common sense and sensible. But the purpose of the expression of these views, seems more narcissistic, than related to governance.

    It's also elite people in Moscow, although of course Navalny adds serious skin in the game, and Varlamov legitimately knows Russia country better than anyone else in terms of walking everywhere.

    This is an interesting, that these narcissistic, attention seeking, personalities, that seem to create vast publicity for themselves, have more common sense and sensible political and social views, than most of us ordinary folks.


    Yuri Dud’ be a better example

     

    It's a person which does very good work especially with the report about HIV, which was trying to help people with HIV have more awareness in the country.

    within the boulevard ring, close to the
     
    And he jumped from there naked, somehow flying many meters laterally from sidewalk, to rest in front of an Armenian restaurant , where an ambulance stands with 1488 written in its number sign, while the body waits for hours sometimes being hit with fences https://t.me/based_departament/3669 .

    With no intention to sound disrespectful about someone's death, perhaps he will be watching from above happy for us to consider this as a kind of performance art.


    Abramovich got Portuguese citizenship.
     
    I believe it's correct to view much of his activity, as a government activity. He is a private citizen as well, with his own interests and views. But there are things where it looks like informal government work.

    would be at least $1000 per month. Maybe the wife is
     
    If you look at sales pages, there are a lot of $2-$4 million apartments you can buy in the road, although his apartment was looking modest, and you said it is only renting.

    I'd be more curious about AP's multinational property holdings, with perhaps (if judging theoretical possibilities) up to $4 million apartments (apartment? apartments?) presumably unused in central Moscow.

    If recall also ancestors' castle in Belarus, that was expropriated by his family, and recently renovated by the oligarch protege of Lukashenko.

    Replies: @AP

  799. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    BTW, what does Mr. Hack's forage basket look like? Mushrooms only? I feel like wild onions might be the thing to find.

    I try to think of what family lore I can, and can only remember the old people talking about different wildberries. Blueberries, especially. Though, I could possibly be missing a lot, as I didn't have the imagination to ask what they ate, when they were around.

    My absolute favorite wild plant is red raspberries. Just the smell of them is really something. Though blueberries, strawberries and black raspberries are quite good, and I think especially good, if you add them to vanilla ice cream. But, I think a lot of people are turned off by the bugs. Maybe, that is part of the draw of mushrooms - less bugs.

    My grandmother used to have some idea about what type of blueberries are best for baking things, but I can't remember which.

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    My foraging basket only included mushrooms and was almost always filled during the late summer/early autumn months. These months were also generally good for fishing too and therefore if the fish weren’t jumping then the mushrooms might be popping, and vice versa. If neither was showing any good results, the old barbecue and shashlyk would serve a useful purpose. 🙂

    • Thanks: songbird
  800. sher singh says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dmitry

    https://twitter.com/akarlin0/status/1475578519820328967

    Replies: @sher singh

    In love with re-balance bots right now, greeat way to constantly buy low/sell high & diversify.
    I can scoop up all the shitcoins I want without worrying about missing pump/dump periods.

    Going to start up another one after prayers with my Matic & CPOOL, along with the SOS airdrop. 🙂
    Maybe, I’ll throw in some BTC & ETH to round it out to 5. 🙂

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  801. @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    Sure I saw there are significant differences within Latin America. But Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.

    I would see 20th century Argentina as a case report, that great wealth can be lost by corrupt and incompetent politics, although being one of the wealthiest countries in the beginning of the 20th century, with a large inflow of European immigration (although under quite open borders regime, so not selecting especially for skilled immigrants).

    Only one Latin American country where the income is similar today to the source country of its immigrants is Puerto Rico (although there a majority of the population have some native descendent).

    If you were writing a case report on Argentina, you could write that high culture seemed to be carried by the later immigrants from Europe. Puerto Rico is land of Reggaeton, while Argentina has Daniel Barenboim, Astor Piazzolla (well popular culture, but a good one), Martha Argerich.

    But a contemporary Western European income level has not been produced by the European immigration to Argentina in the long run, unlike classical music, literature and architecture that were carried to Argentina.

    https://i.imgur.com/1Wb0DNp.jpg


    hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descen
     
    You would need to maintain all the same culture and history, while changing the genetics.

    Our discussion about income is like "case report", so would be considered low if we were looking at medicine. But it's entertaining to discuss.
    https://i.imgur.com/wj3k4hV.png


    As a case report, we might notice that Argentina received significant immigration from Germany and Italy. So from this case report, immigration from countries which would develop high incomes by the late 20th century, would not ensure high incomes by the late 20th century.


    I don’t know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites
     
    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country, at least until there is a revolution or political change (so e.g. Baltic Germans do not rule Latvians and Estonians).

    I think the more notable problem of Latin America is the politics, corruption, and legal system, of these countries, which is partly in their elites, but continues after revolutions against the elites (e.g. Chavez). And this is where we need to know a lot of historical detail (to begin to understand).

    In terms of European descent, we all want our country to have German or Swedish income. But then in Ukraine, etc, having not that dissimilar genetics as Germans, and not receiving similar results to Germany. You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.

    1. Argentina’s GDP per capita (nominal) is very erratic. At the moment it is about the same as Mexico’s, but it was a lot higher then Mexico’s from 2010-2018, a lot lower than Mexico’s from 2002-2007, a lot higher from 1990-2000. It has been richer more often than poorer or the same. With the exception of 2002-2003, Argentina had a much higher per capita GDP than the Dominican Republic, until 2019:

    2. Perhaps because Argentina produces a lot of its own stuff, when its GDP declines it becomes correspondingly cheaper to live there. Taking this into account, Argentina has consistently had a much higher GDP PPP than Mexico and DR, with the exception of 2002-2003:

    3. Related to that, Argentina has a much higher HDI than Mexico or DR.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

    Argentina’s HDI (.845) is between that of Croatia (.851) and Montenegro (.828). It is higher than Russia’s HDI (.824).

    Mexico, meanwhile, is tied with Ukraine (both .779), just barely ahead of Armenia (.776) and Macedonia (.774). DR is tied with Azerbaijan (.756), a little bit ahead of Moldova (.750).

    The point is that Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians and a lot of clever writers. The European immigration might not have had a huge impact on the nominal per capita GDP (though historically it is greater than implied by a snapshot of 2019-2020) but it made a difference in other areas.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians
     
    But despite the European architecture, advanced healthworkers and Argentina's classical music stars that currently dominate the world, the 20th century politics layer has not been better than Mexico, and sometimes perhaps worse, with military junta, mass tortures and mass assassinations (sometimes with support of the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War ).

    In addition, the situation with property rights and financial stability, could be worse than Mexico. For example, currently have 52% inflation in Argentina and hyperinflation is regular there.

    Argentina is currently more vulnerable than other Latin American countries.

    Bloomberg writes last month.
    "Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. "
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-23/inflation-is-raging-everywhere-but-it-s-worst-in-latin-america

    Obviously, Mexico can win its prizes, like a drug war which has killed up to 400,000 people since 2006.

    But Argentina has declined from being one of the wealthiest countries in the world a century ago. So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.


    best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

     

    I recommend growing these yourself in a pot, even in a balcony where squirrels do not climb.

    Their taste goes from very sour, to very delicious, depending on how ripe they become. It's not so much the location, but how ripe they become.

    So, it's really your timing which made them delicious. More you can wait, the more sweet they are. Although somewhere in September or October, they do not become sweet or ripe anymore.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta, @AP

  802. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    BTW, what does Mr. Hack's forage basket look like? Mushrooms only? I feel like wild onions might be the thing to find.

    I try to think of what family lore I can, and can only remember the old people talking about different wildberries. Blueberries, especially. Though, I could possibly be missing a lot, as I didn't have the imagination to ask what they ate, when they were around.

    My absolute favorite wild plant is red raspberries. Just the smell of them is really something. Though blueberries, strawberries and black raspberries are quite good, and I think especially good, if you add them to vanilla ice cream. But, I think a lot of people are turned off by the bugs. Maybe, that is part of the draw of mushrooms - less bugs.

    My grandmother used to have some idea about what type of blueberries are best for baking things, but I can't remember which.

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    The best wild blueberries I have had, were in Maine. The best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

    • Replies: @utu
    @AP

    Wild blueberries do not grow in Europe. European bilberries wich people confuse for blueberries have much sharper flavor and are dark red/blue inside.


    Since many people refer to "blueberries" whether they intend to refer to the bilberry (European blueberry) Vaccinium myrtillus or the American blueberries Vaccinium corymbosum, there is confusion about the two closely similar fruits. For instance, in the Scandinavian languages, Vaccinium myrtillus and other bilberries are called blåbär (or blåbær), which literally means blueberry. Therefore many Scandinavians will refer to a bilberry as a "blueberry", when speaking English.

    European blueberries have dark red, strongly fragrant flesh and red juice that turns blue in basic environments; American blueberries have white or translucent, mildly fragrant flesh

    European blueberries grow on low bushes with solitary fruits, and are found wild in heathland in the Northern Hemisphere; American blueberries grow on large bushes with the fruit in bunches

    European blueberries are usually harvested from wild plants, while the American counterpart is usually cultivated and are widely available commercially

    cultivated American blueberries often come from hybrid cultivars, developed about 100 years ago by agricultural specialists, most prominently Elizabeth Coleman White, to meet growing consumer demand; the bushes grow taller and are easier to harvest

    bilberry fruit will stain hands, teeth and tongue deep blue or purple while eating (it was used as a dye for food and clothes),[14] while American blueberries have flesh of a less intense color, and are thus less staining

    when cooked as a dessert, European blueberries have a much stronger, more tart flavor and a rougher texture than American blueberries - Wiki
     
    IMO , blueberries are dull though they can pass as substitute in baking for bilberries but are underwhelming. Blueberries can't be used to make real bilberry/blueberry soup.
    , @utu
    @AP

    "wild strawberries" - garden strawberries were developed from American (North and South) wild strawberries in 18th century in France. Apparently European wild strawberries were not used in hybridization. However European wild strawberries were hybridized and developed into garden variety but are slightly larger and less fragrant that the real will wild strawberries. They are sold as wild strawberries though in some languages (Russian or Polish) strawberry and wild strawberry do not share the same root. The real wild wild strawberries provide experience on entirely different level. Very few people nowadays know that such experience is even attainable.

    Replies: @AP

  803. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.
     
    1. Argentina's GDP per capita (nominal) is very erratic. At the moment it is about the same as Mexico's, but it was a lot higher then Mexico's from 2010-2018, a lot lower than Mexico's from 2002-2007, a lot higher from 1990-2000. It has been richer more often than poorer or the same. With the exception of 2002-2003, Argentina had a much higher per capita GDP than the Dominican Republic, until 2019:

    https://i.imgur.com/YAUaD61.png

    2. Perhaps because Argentina produces a lot of its own stuff, when its GDP declines it becomes correspondingly cheaper to live there. Taking this into account, Argentina has consistently had a much higher GDP PPP than Mexico and DR, with the exception of 2002-2003:

    https://i.imgur.com/4RfPG8v.png

    3. Related to that, Argentina has a much higher HDI than Mexico or DR.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

    Argentina's HDI (.845) is between that of Croatia (.851) and Montenegro (.828). It is higher than Russia's HDI (.824).

    Mexico, meanwhile, is tied with Ukraine (both .779), just barely ahead of Armenia (.776) and Macedonia (.774). DR is tied with Azerbaijan (.756), a little bit ahead of Moldova (.750).

    The point is that Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians and a lot of clever writers. The European immigration might not have had a huge impact on the nominal per capita GDP (though historically it is greater than implied by a snapshot of 2019-2020) but it made a difference in other areas.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians

    But despite the European architecture, advanced healthworkers and Argentina’s classical music stars that currently dominate the world, the 20th century politics layer has not been better than Mexico, and sometimes perhaps worse, with military junta, mass tortures and mass assassinations (sometimes with support of the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War ).

    In addition, the situation with property rights and financial stability, could be worse than Mexico. For example, currently have 52% inflation in Argentina and hyperinflation is regular there.

    Argentina is currently more vulnerable than other Latin American countries.

    Bloomberg writes last month.
    “Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-23/inflation-is-raging-everywhere-but-it-s-worst-in-latin-america

    Obviously, Mexico can win its prizes, like a drug war which has killed up to 400,000 people since 2006.

    But Argentina has declined from being one of the wealthiest countries in the world a century ago. So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.

    best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

    I recommend growing these yourself in a pot, even in a balcony where squirrels do not climb.

    Their taste goes from very sour, to very delicious, depending on how ripe they become. It’s not so much the location, but how ripe they become.

    So, it’s really your timing which made them delicious. More you can wait, the more sweet they are. Although somewhere in September or October, they do not become sweet or ripe anymore.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    @Dmitry

    Argentina's fabled turn of the century wealth was built on fertilizer and agro commodities exports.

    Fertilizer exports disappeared thanks to German invention of artificial fertilizer via the Fritz Haber process and agro exports alone couldn't cut it especially since yields boomed elsewhere post WW 2 due to cheap fertilizers and hybrid seeds.

    Its not like Argentina started the 20th century with advanced industry which disappeared due to unknown reasons.

    In terms of human capital it was never above Spain and always much below fully industrialized countries.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Mikel

    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    “Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. ”
     
    Yes, but this is a recent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina has a pattern of economic crises followed by growth or stagnation, it is not an even line for Argentina. For this reason, despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico. It has plunged down to Mexico's level, but will likely return to a higher level. Look at the dramatic swings in Argentina compared to the steady growth in Mexico and DR:

    https://i.imgur.com/YAUaD61.png

    Under such circumstances, even during the dips the country would not feel as poor as Mexico. Yes, temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level, and personal items (such as cars or furniture purchased before the economy plunged) of a wealthier country, at least for several years until the economy returns to its baseline.

    It's interesting to compare Argentina with Russia, in constant per capita 2015 US dollars:

    https://i.imgur.com/xKlGDOs.png

    The Russian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years (1992-2004, with nadir in 1998), enough time for the country to really degrade (plus the decline was steeper than in Argentina's crises). In contrast - Argentina had significant dips from 1988-1992 and from 2001-2004, a one year dip in 2009, and this plunge in 2020.

    So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.

     

    This patient is prone to periodic acute episodes of incapacitation followed by recovery to an overall greater state of health..

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Shortsword

  804. @Barbarossa
    @sher singh

    I would never actually want to slaughter my milk cow and intend on her receiving a well deserved retirement once when she no longer is capable of producing. A faithful animal is well worth that.

    I can certainly understand the sentiment there.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I’m curious to know what the funeral for a favorite cow might look like, after the well deserved and long retirement? (I’m just an ignorant city boy, so cut me some slack).

    A Ukrainian lady that I know to this day cannot eat beef because when she was a girl she was heavily involved with the care of cows. Pigs and chickens were for eating, cows were for milking.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    That's a valid question. I would actually have no qualms about butchering a milk cow that had died of natural causes and using the meat. Even if not for human consumption, I would use it for my dogs. I don't see any point in wasting it.

    That brings up a point for Sher Singh which I would be genuinely interested in him answering. There seems from his remarks to be a moral scale on cattle slaughter, with the killing of a milk cow being worst, while the fate of bulls being more ambiguous. How is an animal who dies naturally treated? Is utilizing the meat and hide ever tolerated? Are bulls sometimes allowed to be killed and under what circumstances?

  805. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack

    Did you try to eat the dark (Tuscany) kale yet?

    It's this one (also called "Dino kale", "Lacinato kale") with the long thin leaf. It really tastes a lot more delicious than other kale, in my opinion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_JusbgutuI

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I can tell that you really are a fan of this type of kale, as you’ve brought this up twice now in the last few days. I’m not scheduled to go shopping anytime real soon, but will definitely keep my eye out for it. Phoenix grocery stores don’t usually have many varieties of kale on display, but they do look different in various grocery stores. The leaves in the video were more whole in structure, whereas the ones that I’m used to are more serpentine and intricate looking. Also, I think that you mentioned that the ones that you like have more of a reddish hue to them?

  806. @Svidomyatheart
    @songbird

    Id say you typically dont mix berries with mushrooms...typically you shouldnt mix different types of mushrooms in the same basket(especially if some are slimy and others arent, its annoying to clean them afterwards)

    I remember picking Dog Rose(the rosehips themselves that is) and that was done in the summer and I hated it because it would get hot and there was nowhere to go from the scorching heat and we would stay there all day. Oh and they would sting if you werent careful.

    Those we would dry out on trays and use them with tea.

    Then I remember picking blueberries with the whole family when younger. We would drive for what seemed like an eternity to this one place and the adults would never let us out of sight because you had to go into swampy areas, and we all had knee high rubber boots on and sometimes step in the wrong place you would sink in knee deep into the bog.

    Then my favorite was picking mushrooms. Usually was done in the autumn. It would get chilly like 5-7celsius. October-November time. We would mostly pick Armillaria mellea and Cantharēllus cibārius which would be all over the place. Very common.

    The more rare ones were birch bolete and Leccinum albostipitatum. I remember my younger self being very proud if I found any of these above it would be like mission accomplished thing.

    We would marinate most of them into glass jars but some mushrooms would be fried right away. The cleaning part was super annoying I clearly remember that...all kinds of grass, sticks, and other things would get stuck on the mushroom gills

    Replies: @LatW

    Cantharēllus cibārius

    I love to make a sauce out of these (favorite childhood recipe), with little bits of ham and cream, with boiled potatoes. After picking wild blueberries, we put them in a bowl and poured some milk over them as a dessert. We would also marinate boletus in glass jars, just like you guys did. We used to pick tiny wild strawberries and thread them on a grass stem.

  807. @AP
    @songbird

    The best wild blueberries I have had, were in Maine. The best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

    Replies: @utu, @utu

    Wild blueberries do not grow in Europe. European bilberries wich people confuse for blueberries have much sharper flavor and are dark red/blue inside.

    Since many people refer to “blueberries” whether they intend to refer to the bilberry (European blueberry) Vaccinium myrtillus or the American blueberries Vaccinium corymbosum, there is confusion about the two closely similar fruits. For instance, in the Scandinavian languages, Vaccinium myrtillus and other bilberries are called blåbär (or blåbær), which literally means blueberry. Therefore many Scandinavians will refer to a bilberry as a “blueberry”, when speaking English.

    European blueberries have dark red, strongly fragrant flesh and red juice that turns blue in basic environments; American blueberries have white or translucent, mildly fragrant flesh

    European blueberries grow on low bushes with solitary fruits, and are found wild in heathland in the Northern Hemisphere; American blueberries grow on large bushes with the fruit in bunches

    European blueberries are usually harvested from wild plants, while the American counterpart is usually cultivated and are widely available commercially

    cultivated American blueberries often come from hybrid cultivars, developed about 100 years ago by agricultural specialists, most prominently Elizabeth Coleman White, to meet growing consumer demand; the bushes grow taller and are easier to harvest

    bilberry fruit will stain hands, teeth and tongue deep blue or purple while eating (it was used as a dye for food and clothes),[14] while American blueberries have flesh of a less intense color, and are thus less staining

    when cooked as a dessert, European blueberries have a much stronger, more tart flavor and a rougher texture than American blueberries – Wiki

    IMO , blueberries are dull though they can pass as substitute in baking for bilberries but are underwhelming. Blueberries can’t be used to make real bilberry/blueberry soup.

  808. @LatW

    ..civil liberty, privacy, transparency, anti-corruption, property rights, balance of public/private... which are still relatively better appreciated in some Western countries, but this is not guaranteed by being in a Western bloc.
     
    Well, those are very important values that we take for granted, personal freedoms in particular and rule of law. Things that ideally should be balanced with national/folk or state interests. Not that I'm saying you're necessarily pro-Western but at least not hostile to the West. For instance, would someone like Yuri Dud' be a better example here? Not sure about his deeper political convictions and he's a media personality and has to keep certain appearances, but isn't he some liberal hipster type who on the other hand would not be a big fan of Western style woke if you asked him? That's just my impression. The likes of him, Varlamov, and those types of personalities.



    Russia could have become such a country where power would respect your rights, and act as a servant, even without needing to join Western blocs, but obviously it has become naïve to expect this after more than a century of Chekistan, and even not promising antecedents in the Russian Empire.
     
    In the future maybe... but a good thing about Russia is that it's not micro managed to the smallest detail, that, too, limits freedom.


    Switzerland and Monaco are currently end destinations, of Russian money. They are beneficiaries if anything of current dynamics.
     
    Well, maybe they should send a 100K Max Korzh lookalikes to the EU. :)

    Btw, did you hear that Roman Abramovich got Portuguese citizenship. Apparently, he couldn't get British.

    Tverskoy boulevard. Central Moscow.
     
    Of course, I know where it is. It's within the boulevard ring, close to the Bolshoi. He was apparently renting there. Which I'm thinking would be at least $1000 per month. Maybe the wife is ambitious... Anyway... you're right, a human being is very complex, one can live in a nice place and still be troubled. Especially the intellectual / romantic types are prone to that, in some ways, it's easier to be a more simple person. The lockdown is actually very dangerous that way, there is unnecessary pressure.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    you’re necessarily pro-Western but at least not hostile to the West

    I’d think I’m relatively nonpolitical, although perhaps I seem to show more strong opinions or emotions here than in real life. It’s like we’re different in the internet, than in real life. Almost all Russians I’ve known which emigrated, have more strong opposition emotions, than I can provide. And plenty which doesn’t emigrate too.

    I’d like to evolve to a Latin American stoicism about the politics of the home country. Have you asked Mexicans or Brazilians about their country’s politics, when they can say “yes it’s fucked”, with a smile?

    Also from my own views, I’m becoming less involved to Russia each year. So you do not have to match me to views inside Russia. I’m actually hearing in personal life, more of politics in Western Europe, in Poland. And in my interests, I become more interested in politics of other countries. It seems like I’m a politics nerd about Russia here, but it’s because I’m comfortable to post that here, not because I’m really involved or having strong views.

    I guess you are similar, perhaps you like to talk less about yourself?

    likes of him, Varlamov, and those types of personalities.

    He’s a professional blogger or provocateur, who tries to create strong emotions to generate clickbait. (So I would hope my views are not too similar).

    But, his views would be categorized as “right wing, social liberal” in the West. He has almost a Pim Fortuyn views about immigration.

    I think all these people like Varlamov, Sobchak and Navalny, are such “right wing, social liberal”. In many ways, their views can seem quite common sense and sensible. But the purpose of the expression of these views, seems more narcissistic, than related to governance.

    It’s also elite people in Moscow, although of course Navalny adds serious skin in the game, and Varlamov legitimately knows Russia country better than anyone else in terms of walking everywhere.

    This is an interesting, that these narcissistic, attention seeking, personalities, that seem to create vast publicity for themselves, have more common sense and sensible political and social views, than most of us ordinary folks.

    Yuri Dud’ be a better example

    It’s a person which does very good work especially with the report about HIV, which was trying to help people with HIV have more awareness in the country.

    within the boulevard ring, close to the

    And he jumped from there naked, somehow flying many meters laterally from sidewalk, to rest in front of an Armenian restaurant , where an ambulance stands with 1488 written in its number sign, while the body waits for hours sometimes being hit with fences https://t.me/based_departament/3669 .

    With no intention to sound disrespectful about someone’s death, perhaps he will be watching from above happy for us to consider this as a kind of performance art.

    Abramovich got Portuguese citizenship.

    I believe it’s correct to view much of his activity, as a government activity. He is a private citizen as well, with his own interests and views. But there are things where it looks like informal government work.

    would be at least \$1000 per month. Maybe the wife is

    If you look at sales pages, there are a lot of \$2-\$4 million apartments you can buy in the road, although his apartment was looking modest, and you said it is only renting.

    I’d be more curious about AP’s multinational property holdings, with perhaps (if judging theoretical possibilities) up to \$4 million apartments (apartment? apartments?) presumably unused in central Moscow.

    If recall also ancestors’ castle in Belarus, that was expropriated by his family, and recently renovated by the oligarch protege of Lukashenko.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    If you look at sales pages, there are a lot of $2-$4 million apartments you can buy in the road, although his apartment was looking modest, and you said it is only renting.
     
    It depends on the size. And rents can be very low. In Moscow there are a lot of people who can afford to pay $6000 a month or more for a flat that will have underground parking, a gym, a pool, etc., and a lot of people who can afford to pay $1000-$1500 a month. It is very difficult to find tenants if you have a place that is worth $3000-$4000 a month (in the center, excellent condition, but no underground parking or fitness center). The latter places were those where Soviet-era elites lived - they didn't have such amenities when the USSR existed.

    So often, places that theoretically should get $3000 or $4000 per month get rented for much less because the owner doesn't want to wait for a year to get a tenant, that is better than them not being rented at all.

    (at least, this was the situation a few years ago, I haven't discussed it lately)

    If recall also ancestors’ castle in Belarus, that was expropriated by his family, and recently renovated by the oligarch protege of Lukashenko.
     


    My ancestor left Minsk for Galicia in the mid 18th century, I don't that that palace was built yet (though the land belonged to the family much earlier), it must have been built by some cousins. There are probably 100s if not 1000s of people with more right to inherit that place than me. But Lukashenko's cronies aren't among that number.

    I’d be more curious about AP’s multinational property holdings, with perhaps (if judging theoretical possibilities) up to $4 million apartments (apartment? apartments?) presumably unused in central Moscow.
     
    I don't own anything, my wife and her family do. After the 2014 events the prices went down. It is also not so easy to sell expensive places - people who can afford them, often have the connections to take them if you are not careful (a reason why it is better to rent out expensive places to foreign businesspeople rather than local Russians, and never ever to Caucasians). Even with connections of one's own, one must be careful. So to a certain extent the property value is theoretical.

    We spent a couple of summers in the 2000s in the flat in the center when it was empty (it was small and used by the in-laws to spend the night if one of them went to the theater in downtown); my wife's sibling lives there now but when we visit Moscow, that family moves to their country house in a pine forest outside the city so my family can enjoy central Moscow to ourselves.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  809. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    Despite the anti-Protestantism bend some have pushed here, it is the most radical of the denominations in all directions.
     
    "Protestantism" can mean lots of things, e.g. there's quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you'd have to be more precise what you have in mind. Also, what does "radical" mean here?

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    “Protestantism” can mean lots of things, e.g. there’s quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you’d have to be more precise what you have in mind.

    I wouldn’t promote an existing stream within Protestantism given that most of them have failed. Many more hardline factions have degenerated into quackery (your example of Pentecostalism is a good example). Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people’s concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.

    In other words, don’t bother too much with the formal symbolism and instead fuss over things like familial breakdown, alienation and forming a stronger community. Tailor the religion to those needs rather than trying to take an existing structure (which has failed so far) and attempt to shoe-horn it the social challenges in which it has manifestly failed to address.

    Also, what does “radical” mean here?

    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the ‘charismatic’ tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.

    As an aside, I think Protestantism is the best possible candidate not just because it is easiest to mold but also because it allows for priests to be married, which limits pedophilia and other social evils.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Thulean Friend


    Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people’s concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.
     
    I think that just such a movement has been afoot mostly in the US under the guise of the "non-denominational" church movement. These churches do not bow to the authority of any centralized figure, and can vary in response to any particular religious doctrine. Often enough they form into large "mega-churches" that even include TV marketing channels. Mostly made up of many fallen away traditional protestant denominational members, they can also include fallen away Roman Catholics too. In many ways, I think this movement is the crystallization of those vocal "evanelicals" and "born again" Christians that made their mark on American society starting in the 1970's. I was surprised once when I ran into one who had a decent understanding of the concept of Theosis.

    https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_mistic/religionsplanetearth161_02.jpg
    One of the largest church congregations in the US, Lakeland Church, Houston TX

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @silviosilver
    @Thulean Friend


    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the ‘charismatic’ tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.
     
    I don't know how you can hope to avoid that, given Protestantism's sola scriptura assumption. Whatever noble intentions you start out with, you'll always get lost in the jungle of biblical mumbo jumbo. The only way to tear down the authority of the snake handlers and the prosperity gospel peddlers is to tear down the authority of scripture itself.

    When you take the bible out of Christianity, what do you have left? Mostly, a bunch of European "spiritual traditions." That may not sound like much, but I think it actually could be enough, provided people already possess a sense that there's some "greater power" out there - call it "God" or "infinite intelligence" or whatever you like - which most people already do possess. The spiritual traditions then simply provide a way to "access" that spiritual realm, in a way that is culturally familiar (rather than culturally alien, like trying to "access" it via Islam would be).

    Essential Christian ideas like the notion that we're all sinners, and that we can achieve salvation through faith in a redeemer figure, remain viable even without the bible - indeed, even without a historical Jesus. Who could deny that we often do things that we shouldn't do and don't do things that we should, and that we regret it? There's you "sin" aspect covered. And who doesn't want to believe that there's a spiritual force which, if we appeal to it, can pardon us for wrongs that no other humans are willing to pardon us for?

    Plausibility, not facts, is all the nudge people need in order to take the leap of faith that such a spiritual force "really" exists. Eg light exists even if we don't have the eyes to see it; the redeemer exists even if we don't have the faith to believe it. Sophistry? Of course. But it does the work of truth, so far as mere plausibility is concerned.
    , @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend


    it allows for priests to be married
     
    So do the Eastern Rite churches, if one finds ceremony meaningful. I agree that the celibate priesthood has become one of many problems for the RC church, but the abusive dynamic can and will rear it's head anytime there is a leadership position.

    I suspect that any attempts to mold an ideal religion for our modern age will be a failure. Engineering religions have been tried and they don't seem to catch on in a socially meaningful way. This may have something to do with the nature of religious devotion. Religion often asks us to act in ways that are directly opposed to our desires and inclinations. Whether remaining married in a difficult situation, fasting, or giving of our substance to help those who cannot repay us, religions often fly in the face of calculation and rational thinking.

    Religions have been used and channeled to the advantage of secular rulers frequently enough, but I suspect that success still depends on an inherently compelling pull. As YellowfaceAnon mentioned, Wokism is really a secular religion which seems capable of giving the simulation of meaning to many.

    The individualism of our current age, fueled by the destruction of deep mutual dependencies made possible by great material wealth, is the primary obstacle to the development of a cohesive social identity. We can get away with burning down our social structures because we don't believe we need each other. Screw your neighbors, since Amazon will still deliver. It's the completion of the contractual society.

    I don't think that things can turn around around until things get much worse materially, making mutual cooperation a matter of survival again.
  810. @AP
    @songbird

    The best wild blueberries I have had, were in Maine. The best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

    Replies: @utu, @utu

    “wild strawberries” – garden strawberries were developed from American (North and South) wild strawberries in 18th century in France. Apparently European wild strawberries were not used in hybridization. However European wild strawberries were hybridized and developed into garden variety but are slightly larger and less fragrant that the real will wild strawberries. They are sold as wild strawberries though in some languages (Russian or Polish) strawberry and wild strawberry do not share the same root. The real wild wild strawberries provide experience on entirely different level. Very few people nowadays know that such experience is even attainable.

    • Replies: @AP
    @utu


    Wild blueberries do not grow in Europe. European bilberries wich people confuse for blueberries have much sharper flavor and are dark red/blue inside.
     
    Yes, I was contrasting the wild blueberries I had in Maine with ones sold in supermarkets or even at farms elsewhere.

    IMO , blueberries are dull though they can pass as substitute in baking for bilberries but are underwhelming.
     
    This is true, except for those wild ones in Maine. They were very small but incredibly sweet and flavorful (analogous to Ukrainian/Russian strawberries); I would just eat a handful.

    “wild strawberries” – garden strawberries were developed from American (North and South) wild strawberries in 18th century in France. Apparently European wild strawberries were not used in hybridization. However European wild strawberries were hybridized and developed into garden variety but are slightly larger and less fragrant that the real will wild strawberries.
     
    Interesting. Thanks!

    I had real wild strawberries in the southern Urals - I think they are regionally called "Victorias" 0for some reason. Absolutely amazing. But all strawberries I've had in Russia and Ukraine are smaller and uglier but far better than anything sold in American supermarkets or farmers markets, including ones like Wholefoods. In Ukraine I would have a bowl of strawberries for breakfast with tea, such pleasure.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  811. @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend

    I think that much of it boils down to the fact that the irreligious modernist viewpoint sees human relationships as essentially contractual in nature. There is nothing sacred, fundamentally binding, or transcendent about them. They are made to be broken when they "don't work". This goes to the logical extremes that one would expect and result in much of the societal decay which we see playing out around us.

    The religious viewpoint raises humanity to another level of aspiration, even if it is often not realized. The idea that a given human relationship can be sacred is a powerful one.

    As C.S. Lewis said: “Aim at Heaven and you will get Earth 'thrown in': aim at Earth and you will get neither.”

    Right now I am reading "Family and Civilization" by Carle C. Zimmerman originally published in 1947. It's been interesting so far. He traces the cyclical nature of family structure through Greek, Roman, and European history; demonstrating the transitions in each from the clan type family, to the domestic family, and lastly to the atomistic or individualistic type.

    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion. Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.
    Part of this was the Churches' insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.

    Personally, I've had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Thanks for a thoughtful comment.

    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion.

    Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.

    Part of this was the Churches’ insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.

    Divorce should be discouraged but not forbidden. In my extended family, I have several examples of very long-lasting marriages (still ongoing!) and what I have noticed is that almost all of them have survived because the couples learned to live somewhat separately. The couples still live under one roof but have their separate rooms where they sleep. In one case, my aunt even “sent” her husband away to work in another city while he was allowed to visit on the weekends to check in on his kids. Now they live together again, as they are helping with their grandkids.

    I think if low divorce rates are to be maintained, this kind of flexibility will be required as even couples which fit very well can’t be expected to be as close as they were the initial years.

    There’s also the non-trivial fact that men tend to have higher sex drives and many marriages “dry up” after some years. Prostitution is viewed negatively, but I don’t see any other way out than to be pragmatic on this issue, unless you want to be more permissible on divorce. If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews). Men’s urges are what they are and this what I meant when I wrote to German_reader earlier that religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people’s needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.

    Personally, I’ve had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.

    I think a personal challenge for me is that I am quite content with my life, warts and all. So the ballast of stability that religion would provide me is limited.

    My advocacy is based on what I see around me, at the social level. People are not feeling well. I have liberal instincts and would not want to see women’s rights desecrated in the name of spirituality, but at the same time I can’t see how either men or women are happy with casual dating. I know lots of people who rode that carousel and feel lousy now. Hell, even former Sex and the City stars are now admitting that they miss having children.

    Family formation is very important and only religion seem to have a strong impact on people. It’s impossible to have a sane discussion with liberal and left-leaning people on these issues due to rampant secularism. Some of their concerns are valid, however, as they pertain to the limitation of individual rights. If someone wants to lead a child-free life they should be allowed to do so, but I don’t think it’s a healthy rolemodel for society. I also don’t think we shouldn’t be judgemental, since toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Thulean Friend

    Secularism is the substitution of religions or spirituality with fervent ideologies. You can consider the natalist merits of each ideology accordingly.

    , @Max Demian
    @Thulean Friend


    If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia
     
    Isn't that a rather odd, even radical statement? Did you actually mean to assert, as your words would clearly seem to imply, that in communities that severely stigmatize, disincentivize and punish (through steep social costs such as shame and ostracization) both prostitution and divorce, as well as adultery*, that the actual, de facto incidence of all of those vices is sufficiently low, and the incidence of the vice of resorting to the use of children for sexual gratification sufficiently high, that the latter (i.e., "pedophilia", for short) completely overshadows the former (i.e, prostitution, adultery and divorce combined)?

    *Concerning adultery, is it your presumption that among demographics for which said vice is sufficiently stigmatized, disincentivized and punished , that adultery simply does not occur at any statistically significant level? Is that not the implication of the conspicuous absence in your comment of any mention, at least an explicit one, of adultery?

    Moreover, does your statement not also presuppose that at least a latent proclivity toward pedophilia* is commonly, if not universally, found in normal men?

    *As opposed to hebephilia, ephebophilia or even pederasty.

    On what basis would any of these assumptions and assertions be made?

    (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews).
     
    On what basis do you assert that pedophilia is "rampant" among ultra-Orthodox [sic*] Jews? Is there any credible evidence that the incidence of pedophilia is any more prevalent among any subset of Jews than said phenomena (however defined) among either the general population or any other subset thereof? Any credible data? (Sensationalist tabloid articles, blog posts and the like that rely upon anecdotal, uncorroborated reports from individuals, often anonymous and almost always anything-but disinterested or objective, and of dubious character, does not qualify as credible data.)

    Men’s urges are what they are
     
    Question: Is it possible for a man to experience no conflict between his libido and his moral standards?

    Answer: Sure; as long as least one of those two (i.e., libido; moral standards) are low enough.

    Alternative version of same idea: Show me a man who experiences no conflict between his moral standards and his libido. And I'll show you a man who has an exceptionally low libido. Or remarkably low moral standards. At least one of those two.

    religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people’s needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.
     
    A counter-perspective to that was articulated by Barbarossa, in the comment in which he quoted C.S. Lewis. By establishing an ideal to strive toward, rigorous standards provide much value even if never quite reached. This applies not only in the religious realm but also in the secular and civil realms as well.

    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.
     
    Indeed. But didn't you skip-over at least one intermediary step between toleration and veneration? Namely, that of acceptance? Note how quickly we went from toleration to full acceptance, and then from that to the veneration and celebration, now mandatory, that presently prevails.

    I refer here, of course, primarily to the transformation that attitudes toward alternative sexual identities, lifestyles and behaviors have taken over the past quarter-century or so. Note that this trend toward greater liberality and acceptance in matters sexual has not been even and consistent. There are a number of areas in which attitudes have trended in the very opposite direction, toward less tolerance; what many have and would call puritanism; and even downright hysteria.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend

    Even in the era of the tightest Church control of marriage, there were still ways, though tightly constrained, to dissolve toxic marriages.

    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.

    In the same vein as your own examples from extended family, my parents are in many ways very incompatible people who have certainly grown to have somewhat separate lives. They never got divorced and never will, a fact which I am deeply grateful for. When I think back to my own tumultous early years of marriage, I don't think it would have been likely to work if not for the idealism I had, much of which came from a non-divorced upbringing. So, my parents' terribly imperfect, yet intact, marriage had a pro-social outcome for me, which in turn provides that for my kids.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said "Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution." So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.


    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.
     
    This can't be said enough, as it gets turned on it's head too often in our modern world. Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It's actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    Replies: @AP, @Thulean Friend, @Pericles

  812. @Dmitry
    @AP


    Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians
     
    But despite the European architecture, advanced healthworkers and Argentina's classical music stars that currently dominate the world, the 20th century politics layer has not been better than Mexico, and sometimes perhaps worse, with military junta, mass tortures and mass assassinations (sometimes with support of the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War ).

    In addition, the situation with property rights and financial stability, could be worse than Mexico. For example, currently have 52% inflation in Argentina and hyperinflation is regular there.

    Argentina is currently more vulnerable than other Latin American countries.

    Bloomberg writes last month.
    "Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. "
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-23/inflation-is-raging-everywhere-but-it-s-worst-in-latin-america

    Obviously, Mexico can win its prizes, like a drug war which has killed up to 400,000 people since 2006.

    But Argentina has declined from being one of the wealthiest countries in the world a century ago. So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.


    best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

     

    I recommend growing these yourself in a pot, even in a balcony where squirrels do not climb.

    Their taste goes from very sour, to very delicious, depending on how ripe they become. It's not so much the location, but how ripe they become.

    So, it's really your timing which made them delicious. More you can wait, the more sweet they are. Although somewhere in September or October, they do not become sweet or ripe anymore.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta, @AP

    Argentina’s fabled turn of the century wealth was built on fertilizer and agro commodities exports.

    Fertilizer exports disappeared thanks to German invention of artificial fertilizer via the Fritz Haber process and agro exports alone couldn’t cut it especially since yields boomed elsewhere post WW 2 due to cheap fertilizers and hybrid seeds.

    Its not like Argentina started the 20th century with advanced industry which disappeared due to unknown reasons.

    In terms of human capital it was never above Spain and always much below fully industrialized countries.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Vishnugupta

    Yes, Argentina has always been less industrialized than Canada or Australia. Canada got serious investment from the US & Britain and Australia got rich by gold mining.

    , @Mikel
    @Vishnugupta


    Fertilizer exports disappeared thanks to German invention of artificial fertilizer via the Fritz Haber process
     
    I don't think this had much of an impact on Argentina. By contrast, it was pretty devastating for Chile's very lucrative business of saltpeter (natural nitrates) mining. They had recently fought a war to gain access to the vast saltpeter deposit of the Atacama desert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Chile#Crisis_and_restructuring_(1914%E2%80%9338)
  813. @Vishnugupta
    @Dmitry

    Argentina's fabled turn of the century wealth was built on fertilizer and agro commodities exports.

    Fertilizer exports disappeared thanks to German invention of artificial fertilizer via the Fritz Haber process and agro exports alone couldn't cut it especially since yields boomed elsewhere post WW 2 due to cheap fertilizers and hybrid seeds.

    Its not like Argentina started the 20th century with advanced industry which disappeared due to unknown reasons.

    In terms of human capital it was never above Spain and always much below fully industrialized countries.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Mikel

    Yes, Argentina has always been less industrialized than Canada or Australia. Canada got serious investment from the US & Britain and Australia got rich by gold mining.

  814. @Thulean Friend
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks for a thoughtful comment.


    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion.

    Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.

    Part of this was the Churches’ insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.
     

    Divorce should be discouraged but not forbidden. In my extended family, I have several examples of very long-lasting marriages (still ongoing!) and what I have noticed is that almost all of them have survived because the couples learned to live somewhat separately. The couples still live under one roof but have their separate rooms where they sleep. In one case, my aunt even "sent" her husband away to work in another city while he was allowed to visit on the weekends to check in on his kids. Now they live together again, as they are helping with their grandkids.

    I think if low divorce rates are to be maintained, this kind of flexibility will be required as even couples which fit very well can't be expected to be as close as they were the initial years.

    There's also the non-trivial fact that men tend to have higher sex drives and many marriages "dry up" after some years. Prostitution is viewed negatively, but I don't see any other way out than to be pragmatic on this issue, unless you want to be more permissible on divorce. If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews). Men's urges are what they are and this what I meant when I wrote to German_reader earlier that religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people's needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.

    Personally, I’ve had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.
     

    I think a personal challenge for me is that I am quite content with my life, warts and all. So the ballast of stability that religion would provide me is limited.

    My advocacy is based on what I see around me, at the social level. People are not feeling well. I have liberal instincts and would not want to see women's rights desecrated in the name of spirituality, but at the same time I can't see how either men or women are happy with casual dating. I know lots of people who rode that carousel and feel lousy now. Hell, even former Sex and the City stars are now admitting that they miss having children.

    Family formation is very important and only religion seem to have a strong impact on people. It's impossible to have a sane discussion with liberal and left-leaning people on these issues due to rampant secularism. Some of their concerns are valid, however, as they pertain to the limitation of individual rights. If someone wants to lead a child-free life they should be allowed to do so, but I don't think it's a healthy rolemodel for society. I also don't think we shouldn't be judgemental, since toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Max Demian, @Barbarossa

    Secularism is the substitution of religions or spirituality with fervent ideologies. You can consider the natalist merits of each ideology accordingly.

  815. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    “Protestantism” can mean lots of things, e.g. there’s quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you’d have to be more precise what you have in mind.
     
    I wouldn't promote an existing stream within Protestantism given that most of them have failed. Many more hardline factions have degenerated into quackery (your example of Pentecostalism is a good example). Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people's concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.

    In other words, don't bother too much with the formal symbolism and instead fuss over things like familial breakdown, alienation and forming a stronger community. Tailor the religion to those needs rather than trying to take an existing structure (which has failed so far) and attempt to shoe-horn it the social challenges in which it has manifestly failed to address.

    Also, what does “radical” mean here?
     
    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the 'charismatic' tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.

    As an aside, I think Protestantism is the best possible candidate not just because it is easiest to mold but also because it allows for priests to be married, which limits pedophilia and other social evils.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @silviosilver, @Barbarossa

    Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people’s concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.

    I think that just such a movement has been afoot mostly in the US under the guise of the “non-denominational” church movement. These churches do not bow to the authority of any centralized figure, and can vary in response to any particular religious doctrine. Often enough they form into large “mega-churches” that even include TV marketing channels. Mostly made up of many fallen away traditional protestant denominational members, they can also include fallen away Roman Catholics too. In many ways, I think this movement is the crystallization of those vocal “evanelicals” and “born again” Christians that made their mark on American society starting in the 1970’s. I was surprised once when I ran into one who had a decent understanding of the concept of Theosis.


    One of the largest church congregations in the US, Lakeland Church, Houston TX

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church (not Lakeland.) That church building is a re-purposed basketball hockey arena the Houston Rockets used to be the main tenant inside.

    Things you will never hear out of Osteen's mouth: sin, hell, redemption.

    I personally have never heard him say Jesus or Christ although I only have listened to him for seven, eight hours. If he quotes the Bible at all it's going to be Proverbs most often. He would have made a great Pharisee.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Mr. Hack

  816. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    “Protestantism” can mean lots of things, e.g. there’s quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you’d have to be more precise what you have in mind.
     
    I wouldn't promote an existing stream within Protestantism given that most of them have failed. Many more hardline factions have degenerated into quackery (your example of Pentecostalism is a good example). Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people's concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.

    In other words, don't bother too much with the formal symbolism and instead fuss over things like familial breakdown, alienation and forming a stronger community. Tailor the religion to those needs rather than trying to take an existing structure (which has failed so far) and attempt to shoe-horn it the social challenges in which it has manifestly failed to address.

    Also, what does “radical” mean here?
     
    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the 'charismatic' tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.

    As an aside, I think Protestantism is the best possible candidate not just because it is easiest to mold but also because it allows for priests to be married, which limits pedophilia and other social evils.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @silviosilver, @Barbarossa

    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the ‘charismatic’ tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.

    I don’t know how you can hope to avoid that, given Protestantism’s sola scriptura assumption. Whatever noble intentions you start out with, you’ll always get lost in the jungle of biblical mumbo jumbo. The only way to tear down the authority of the snake handlers and the prosperity gospel peddlers is to tear down the authority of scripture itself.

    When you take the bible out of Christianity, what do you have left? Mostly, a bunch of European “spiritual traditions.” That may not sound like much, but I think it actually could be enough, provided people already possess a sense that there’s some “greater power” out there – call it “God” or “infinite intelligence” or whatever you like – which most people already do possess. The spiritual traditions then simply provide a way to “access” that spiritual realm, in a way that is culturally familiar (rather than culturally alien, like trying to “access” it via Islam would be).

    Essential Christian ideas like the notion that we’re all sinners, and that we can achieve salvation through faith in a redeemer figure, remain viable even without the bible – indeed, even without a historical Jesus. Who could deny that we often do things that we shouldn’t do and don’t do things that we should, and that we regret it? There’s you “sin” aspect covered. And who doesn’t want to believe that there’s a spiritual force which, if we appeal to it, can pardon us for wrongs that no other humans are willing to pardon us for?

    Plausibility, not facts, is all the nudge people need in order to take the leap of faith that such a spiritual force “really” exists. Eg light exists even if we don’t have the eyes to see it; the redeemer exists even if we don’t have the faith to believe it. Sophistry? Of course. But it does the work of truth, so far as mere plausibility is concerned.

    • Agree: Jatt Aryaa
    • Disagree: Corvinus
    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  817. @Pontius
    I don't know about you guys, but given the moratorium on arresting shoplifters, I think I could live pretty damn well on $950 a day in SoCal.

    $950 day, hmmm....$346,750/yr tax free. I wonder what that would be pre-tax, half a mil? That's just the once a day slackers.

    Seizin's greetin's!

    [img]https://lasentinel.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2020/12/Black-Santa-2-1.jpg[/img]

    Replies: @Max Demian

    Seizin’s greetin’s!

    LOL

    With the present economic situation being what it is, one might wonder: Will this be the winter of our discount tent?

    ~ ~ ~
    I wish blackberries were still in season*

  818. @Dmitry
    @Mikel

    Sure I saw there are significant differences within Latin America. But Cuba, Mexico and Dominican Republic have more or less the same GDP per capita as Argentina.

    I would see 20th century Argentina as a case report, that great wealth can be lost by corrupt and incompetent politics, although being one of the wealthiest countries in the beginning of the 20th century, with a large inflow of European immigration (although under quite open borders regime, so not selecting especially for skilled immigrants).

    Only one Latin American country where the income is similar today to the source country of its immigrants is Puerto Rico (although there a majority of the population have some native descendent).

    If you were writing a case report on Argentina, you could write that high culture seemed to be carried by the later immigrants from Europe. Puerto Rico is land of Reggaeton, while Argentina has Daniel Barenboim, Astor Piazzolla (well popular culture, but a good one), Martha Argerich.

    But a contemporary Western European income level has not been produced by the European immigration to Argentina in the long run, unlike classical music, literature and architecture that were carried to Argentina.

    https://i.imgur.com/1Wb0DNp.jpg


    hard sciences we could devise an experiment to test the hypothesis H_hbd and group Latin American countries by percentage of European descen
     
    You would need to maintain all the same culture and history, while changing the genetics.

    Our discussion about income is like "case report", so would be considered low if we were looking at medicine. But it's entertaining to discuss.
    https://i.imgur.com/wj3k4hV.png


    As a case report, we might notice that Argentina received significant immigration from Germany and Italy. So from this case report, immigration from countries which would develop high incomes by the late 20th century, would not ensure high incomes by the late 20th century.


    I don’t know about you but I think that, given these results, it would be worthwhile testing if people of higher European descent are also more likely to be part of the economic elites
     
    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country, at least until there is a revolution or political change (so e.g. Baltic Germans do not rule Latvians and Estonians).

    I think the more notable problem of Latin America is the politics, corruption, and legal system, of these countries, which is partly in their elites, but continues after revolutions against the elites (e.g. Chavez). And this is where we need to know a lot of historical detail (to begin to understand).

    In terms of European descent, we all want our country to have German or Swedish income. But then in Ukraine, etc, having not that dissimilar genetics as Germans, and not receiving similar results to Germany. You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.

    If your goal is to understand reality you need to look at everything, including all those factors and also factors that may be unsettling or politically incorrect. That’s how I evolved from a point of view similar to yours to my current one, after being witness to lots of direct evidence by living in Latin America. Reality doesn’t care about our feelings or ideologies. It is what it is. And social matters are complex enough, we don’t need to limit our understanding by setting limits to what may be studied or not.

    One interesting aspect of that latest graphic of comparative wealth that you have posted is that our great grandparents 100 years ago did not care much about political correctness and had a more realistic and intuitive view of the world than ours. If you had showed them that graph of what reality would be like 100 years later for those countries, they would have been very unsurprised. Important forces seem to be at play across generations.

    Perhaps Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population (less in the poorest regions of the North).

    BTW, I know Argentina quite well and have also visited Cuba and the idea that both countries have comprable levels of wealth is laughable. It looks like the World Bank has done some creative accounting there. Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity and those of them who don’t have access to hard currency (a large part of the population) live basically on a subsistence diet of basic staples with a couple of pounds of meat per month if they’re lucky, while foreign tourists enjoy luxury hotels. They’ve actually managed to build one of the most unequal societies in the Americas.

    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country

    Yes, that’s true to a great extent. Chile, for example, is not precisely known for being a paragon of upward mobility and right now they are in the process of dismantling everything that made them grow faster than their neighbors because it didn’t bring social equality. The prevalence of old surnames with origins in the old Castilian and Basque landed aristocracy in the political and economic elites is quite surprising.

    But during my years there I got to know countless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite, while the native population remained much poorer than these recent immigrants.

    Deep inside, nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it’s shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots as much as they can, living in more or less closed enclaves, but perhaps the middle and low classes are even more racist towards people who are darker than themselves. If you go through rental advertisements on the newspapers, it’s very common to see notices “no Peruvians” or “no Haitians”. The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikel

    I've never been there but based on discussion and constant stream of facebook pictures and updates from family, it looks like a Visegrad country - richer than Ukraine, but poorer than Western Europe. According to Worldbank, Argentina was richer than Poland in constant GDP PPP in the 1990s, was about the same as Poland from 2000-2010, and then stagnated while Poland moved ahead.



    I have an aunt from Ukraine who moved to Argentina in the early 1990s. She and my cousin who moved there in her early teens visited us a few years ago - it was fun to see the waiter's reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish. My cousin married an Italian guy in Buenos Aires, her brother who is into outdoor activities such as mountain biking moved to a desert region in the northwest and has a pretty Mestiza wife.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    we don’t need to limit our understanding by setting limits
     
    Who said you need to set limits?

    My point is that in most disasterzones, we can see this in its culture, politics, institutions.

    As I write:
    "Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it’s more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one. "

    This is how it is in the second world. You can look at Putin's genetics - it might be not so far from even countries like Finland, but it will have limited prediction value if you wanted to know if your business will be expropriated. There you have more immediate causes.


    Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population

     

    But the question if you want to assess Argentina's situation, invest in Argentina - why is there at the moment Argentina have 52% inflation?

    You can doubt it is predicted too perfectly by ratios of European descent. Israel is now running 2,3% inflation, with a lower proportion of descent, and so Singapore is some 3,8% inflation with far lower. Ukraine is going to 10% inflation, with a far higher level of European descent.

    Again, there are problems with the financial stability and it's more related to the boring things they talk about in IMF reports.

    But then you want to ask why Argentina is such a crazy country with 52% inflation? It has to be something very significant in the culture and politics there.


    ountless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite,

     

    I've only read a little about these countries. But I think it seems that intelligent people can achieve upward mobility even in second world countries since the 20th century, as many of their wealthy people can be immigrants.

    In first world countries, even more. Look at the Indians in the USA. Meanwhile, India remains a third world country. (It's not a genetic explanation for India).

    Most of my ancestors have extremely poor. But in another historical context, it suddenly seems very easy to become rapidly enriched. So our ancestors' poverty can not have much of a genetic explanation in their particular case. And the possibility to become enriched, was very continent in the wider framework of society and a particular historical moment that present themselves rarely for our family history.


    Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity

     

    Under Batista as an economy it had been more developing, and could have resulted like Puerto Rico today. But there is not a result of political revolution with a reversal of the trade relationship with the world's largest economy - United States

    nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it’s shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots
     
    This implies a colonial country, and this situation also implies that things like GDP growth will not be prioritized, rather than the power distribution.

    This is true in many second world countries, that the priority for development, is not the same as in Switzerland or Silicon Valley. This is in Russia today, that after a certain economic level was achieved (as early as 2008), the government has changed priorities.


    notices “no Peruvians” or “no Haitians”. The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.
     
    Surely. And in Brazil it can appear like the racial composition in bourgeois areas, can appear somekind of pure Portuguese.

    Replies: @Mikel

  819. @utu
    @AP

    "wild strawberries" - garden strawberries were developed from American (North and South) wild strawberries in 18th century in France. Apparently European wild strawberries were not used in hybridization. However European wild strawberries were hybridized and developed into garden variety but are slightly larger and less fragrant that the real will wild strawberries. They are sold as wild strawberries though in some languages (Russian or Polish) strawberry and wild strawberry do not share the same root. The real wild wild strawberries provide experience on entirely different level. Very few people nowadays know that such experience is even attainable.

    Replies: @AP

    Wild blueberries do not grow in Europe. European bilberries wich people confuse for blueberries have much sharper flavor and are dark red/blue inside.

    Yes, I was contrasting the wild blueberries I had in Maine with ones sold in supermarkets or even at farms elsewhere.

    IMO , blueberries are dull though they can pass as substitute in baking for bilberries but are underwhelming.

    This is true, except for those wild ones in Maine. They were very small but incredibly sweet and flavorful (analogous to Ukrainian/Russian strawberries); I would just eat a handful.

    “wild strawberries” – garden strawberries were developed from American (North and South) wild strawberries in 18th century in France. Apparently European wild strawberries were not used in hybridization. However European wild strawberries were hybridized and developed into garden variety but are slightly larger and less fragrant that the real will wild strawberries.

    Interesting. Thanks!

    I had real wild strawberries in the southern Urals – I think they are regionally called “Victorias” 0for some reason. Absolutely amazing. But all strawberries I’ve had in Russia and Ukraine are smaller and uglier but far better than anything sold in American supermarkets or farmers markets, including ones like Wholefoods. In Ukraine I would have a bowl of strawberries for breakfast with tea, such pleasure.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    called “Victorias”

     

    These are strawberries that were created (from American strawberries) by gardeners for Queen Victoria. They are not a wild strawberry origin, but a hybrid strawberry that was created as a more medium size with higher productivity. Their origin was from native American strawberries, as opposed to the European strawberries. The strawberry in the supermarket are also different hybrids cultivated from those American strawberries.

    real wild strawberries in
     
    These very small strawberries are "fragaria vesca", they are the strawberries which are native everywhere in Europe, before the discovery of the New World.

    Although it's actually easiest to grow in pots. They are the easiest one to grow and continue producing for many months every year from the same pot.

    They taste delicious only if you allow them to become very ripe. It's your timing in terms of collecting them which determines how good they will taste. If you have any garden or even balcony, I recommend growing them. It's one of the easiest things I've grown and each plant makes a lot of little strawberries.

  820. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.
     
    If your goal is to understand reality you need to look at everything, including all those factors and also factors that may be unsettling or politically incorrect. That's how I evolved from a point of view similar to yours to my current one, after being witness to lots of direct evidence by living in Latin America. Reality doesn't care about our feelings or ideologies. It is what it is. And social matters are complex enough, we don't need to limit our understanding by setting limits to what may be studied or not.

    One interesting aspect of that latest graphic of comparative wealth that you have posted is that our great grandparents 100 years ago did not care much about political correctness and had a more realistic and intuitive view of the world than ours. If you had showed them that graph of what reality would be like 100 years later for those countries, they would have been very unsurprised. Important forces seem to be at play across generations.

    Perhaps Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population (less in the poorest regions of the North).

    BTW, I know Argentina quite well and have also visited Cuba and the idea that both countries have comprable levels of wealth is laughable. It looks like the World Bank has done some creative accounting there. Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity and those of them who don't have access to hard currency (a large part of the population) live basically on a subsistence diet of basic staples with a couple of pounds of meat per month if they're lucky, while foreign tourists enjoy luxury hotels. They've actually managed to build one of the most unequal societies in the Americas.

    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country
     
    Yes, that's true to a great extent. Chile, for example, is not precisely known for being a paragon of upward mobility and right now they are in the process of dismantling everything that made them grow faster than their neighbors because it didn't bring social equality. The prevalence of old surnames with origins in the old Castilian and Basque landed aristocracy in the political and economic elites is quite surprising.

    But during my years there I got to know countless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite, while the native population remained much poorer than these recent immigrants.

    Deep inside, nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it's shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots as much as they can, living in more or less closed enclaves, but perhaps the middle and low classes are even more racist towards people who are darker than themselves. If you go through rental advertisements on the newspapers, it's very common to see notices "no Peruvians" or "no Haitians". The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    I’ve never been there but based on discussion and constant stream of facebook pictures and updates from family, it looks like a Visegrad country – richer than Ukraine, but poorer than Western Europe. According to Worldbank, Argentina was richer than Poland in constant GDP PPP in the 1990s, was about the same as Poland from 2000-2010, and then stagnated while Poland moved ahead.

    [MORE]

    I have an aunt from Ukraine who moved to Argentina in the early 1990s. She and my cousin who moved there in her early teens visited us a few years ago – it was fun to see the waiter’s reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish. My cousin married an Italian guy in Buenos Aires, her brother who is into outdoor activities such as mountain biking moved to a desert region in the northwest and has a pretty Mestiza wife.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AP


    it was fun to see the waiter’s reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish.
     
    Yes, I know. I am not blond but I had my own moments of fun in Chile whenever people took me for a "gringo" and started to speak in English (or more commonly Spanglish) to me.

    Speaking of blonde Ukrainians, last summer I watched a Sweden-Ukraine soccer match and at the beginning I wasn't sure which team was which, the players looked quite similar physically. I actually think I realized who the Swedes were when I saw a black player, that had to be a Swede.

    Sometime in the 70s, in times of greater freedom of expression, the economics Nobel Prize winner Simon Kuznets said that there are 4 kinds of countries in the world: the developed ones, the undeveloped ones, Japan and Argentina. Meaning that Japan wasn't supposed to be rich, being an oriental country, but was. And Argentina was supposed to be rich, being white, but wasn't.

    Now things have changed and we don't see so much of extraordinary in the cases of Japan and Argentina. Perhaps the new economic mystery is Ukraine. Why is it so poor? The only time I visited Kiev, in the 90s, I did get the impression that it was poorer than its neighbors, including Russia, and people in Kiev did seem perhaps to be more southern looking than in Poland, where I was traveling from. But later on I have met quite a few Ukrainian expatriates in Chile, Argentina, and recently in the US and these are generally not the kind of people that one associates with dysfunctional countries.

    I don't have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?

    I hope I am not invoking Hacks' Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country. The whole world has entered a new cold war era, much more senseless than the previous one, after the 2014 events in Ukraine so I think that it is objectively interesting to understand this country better.

    BTW, I have been more sympathetic than not to the Russian side in the Ukrainian conflict but I have the feeling that Putin is planning to do something that I won't like. Russian moves tend to be unpredictable and crude.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @AP, @Mr. Hack

  821. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    you’re necessarily pro-Western but at least not hostile to the West

     

    I'd think I'm relatively nonpolitical, although perhaps I seem to show more strong opinions or emotions here than in real life. It's like we're different in the internet, than in real life. Almost all Russians I've known which emigrated, have more strong opposition emotions, than I can provide. And plenty which doesn't emigrate too.

    I'd like to evolve to a Latin American stoicism about the politics of the home country. Have you asked Mexicans or Brazilians about their country's politics, when they can say "yes it's fucked", with a smile?

    Also from my own views, I'm becoming less involved to Russia each year. So you do not have to match me to views inside Russia. I'm actually hearing in personal life, more of politics in Western Europe, in Poland. And in my interests, I become more interested in politics of other countries. It seems like I'm a politics nerd about Russia here, but it's because I'm comfortable to post that here, not because I'm really involved or having strong views.

    I guess you are similar, perhaps you like to talk less about yourself?


    likes of him, Varlamov, and those types of personalities.
     
    He's a professional blogger or provocateur, who tries to create strong emotions to generate clickbait. (So I would hope my views are not too similar).

    But, his views would be categorized as "right wing, social liberal" in the West. He has almost a Pim Fortuyn views about immigration.

    I think all these people like Varlamov, Sobchak and Navalny, are such "right wing, social liberal". In many ways, their views can seem quite common sense and sensible. But the purpose of the expression of these views, seems more narcissistic, than related to governance.

    It's also elite people in Moscow, although of course Navalny adds serious skin in the game, and Varlamov legitimately knows Russia country better than anyone else in terms of walking everywhere.

    This is an interesting, that these narcissistic, attention seeking, personalities, that seem to create vast publicity for themselves, have more common sense and sensible political and social views, than most of us ordinary folks.


    Yuri Dud’ be a better example

     

    It's a person which does very good work especially with the report about HIV, which was trying to help people with HIV have more awareness in the country.

    within the boulevard ring, close to the
     
    And he jumped from there naked, somehow flying many meters laterally from sidewalk, to rest in front of an Armenian restaurant , where an ambulance stands with 1488 written in its number sign, while the body waits for hours sometimes being hit with fences https://t.me/based_departament/3669 .

    With no intention to sound disrespectful about someone's death, perhaps he will be watching from above happy for us to consider this as a kind of performance art.


    Abramovich got Portuguese citizenship.
     
    I believe it's correct to view much of his activity, as a government activity. He is a private citizen as well, with his own interests and views. But there are things where it looks like informal government work.

    would be at least $1000 per month. Maybe the wife is
     
    If you look at sales pages, there are a lot of $2-$4 million apartments you can buy in the road, although his apartment was looking modest, and you said it is only renting.

    I'd be more curious about AP's multinational property holdings, with perhaps (if judging theoretical possibilities) up to $4 million apartments (apartment? apartments?) presumably unused in central Moscow.

    If recall also ancestors' castle in Belarus, that was expropriated by his family, and recently renovated by the oligarch protege of Lukashenko.

    Replies: @AP

    If you look at sales pages, there are a lot of \$2-\$4 million apartments you can buy in the road, although his apartment was looking modest, and you said it is only renting.

    It depends on the size. And rents can be very low. In Moscow there are a lot of people who can afford to pay \$6000 a month or more for a flat that will have underground parking, a gym, a pool, etc., and a lot of people who can afford to pay \$1000-\$1500 a month. It is very difficult to find tenants if you have a place that is worth \$3000-\$4000 a month (in the center, excellent condition, but no underground parking or fitness center). The latter places were those where Soviet-era elites lived – they didn’t have such amenities when the USSR existed.

    So often, places that theoretically should get \$3000 or \$4000 per month get rented for much less because the owner doesn’t want to wait for a year to get a tenant, that is better than them not being rented at all.

    (at least, this was the situation a few years ago, I haven’t discussed it lately)

    If recall also ancestors’ castle in Belarus, that was expropriated by his family, and recently renovated by the oligarch protege of Lukashenko.

    [MORE]

    My ancestor left Minsk for Galicia in the mid 18th century, I don’t that that palace was built yet (though the land belonged to the family much earlier), it must have been built by some cousins. There are probably 100s if not 1000s of people with more right to inherit that place than me. But Lukashenko’s cronies aren’t among that number.

    I’d be more curious about AP’s multinational property holdings, with perhaps (if judging theoretical possibilities) up to \$4 million apartments (apartment? apartments?) presumably unused in central Moscow.

    I don’t own anything, my wife and her family do. After the 2014 events the prices went down. It is also not so easy to sell expensive places – people who can afford them, often have the connections to take them if you are not careful (a reason why it is better to rent out expensive places to foreign businesspeople rather than local Russians, and never ever to Caucasians). Even with connections of one’s own, one must be careful. So to a certain extent the property value is theoretical.

    We spent a couple of summers in the 2000s in the flat in the center when it was empty (it was small and used by the in-laws to spend the night if one of them went to the theater in downtown); my wife’s sibling lives there now but when we visit Moscow, that family moves to their country house in a pine forest outside the city so my family can enjoy central Moscow to ourselves.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    2014 events the prices went down. It is also not so easy to sell expensive
     
    Yes entry and exit point is important. If your wife has purchased before 2014, then the devaluation means the money is at least emotionally locked in Russia. I mean emotionally, because it would be emotionally difficult to ignore the losses in converting from the devalued currency to another currency.

    At least, it is a very safe store of value in the local context. That's an apartment in central Moscow will always be desired and dreamed about by most of the country. You can say it's the safest property in Russia from the investment point of view, and one of the best ones in terms of its use value (perhaps not for renting as you said, but using it to live in central Moscow is not too bad as an alternative).

    This devaluation in Russia was such a strange kind of financial crisis, because it had never initially felt like an financial crisis with instant upheaval. But it was in the end the erosion of value of Russian assets and wealth as much as the denomination says.

    For me (with only a superficial, journalistic understanding of financial realities), it was several years before this realization that there had been a significant loss of wealth.

    At this time of devaluation, I didn't expect it as being a permanent devaluation. In the causal media there wasn't explanation of its permanence for ordinary people. Even in "Kommersant", "Vedomosti" (I mean relatively educated media), I don't remember articles saying "sorry this devaluation is permanent. Sorry your family's properties and assets have instantly lost a significant proportion of value. Don't expect a return to their values of before. Sorry if you didn't move your assets in Switzerland before this, you have lost a lot of money".


    when we visit Moscow, that family moves to their country house in a pine forest outside the city so my family can enjoy central Moscow

     

    It sounds like a wonderful luxury. Even compared to renting, it's something feeling different when your family really owns a place in the city.
  822. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    dismantling the neo-liberal economic system and redistributing wealth towards the poorer parts of the world.
     
    imo Francis' comments on the causes of poverty are pure demagoguery, it's just endless rants about greed, as if everything could be reduced to character flaws and the sins of profit-oriented capitalists. His comments also reinforce the idea that "we" (people in the global North collectively") are only rich, because "they" (people in the global South) are exploited and kept in poverty, which imo is a really pernicious view and potentially encourages all kind of revenge fantasies. Also, what would mean "dismantling the neo-liberal economic system" even mean in practice? Debt forgiveness for poorer countries, making it possible for them to pursue protectionist policies to build up industries etc.? Ok, some of that certainly would be sensible in any case, but what reason is there to expect that everything will then be fine, given ingrained cultures of corruption and, to be frank, lack of human capital in many global South societies?
    Regarding abortion, personally I'm not a fan of it (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized and does raise some questions about the nature of our societies), but imo it's very questionable that it could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree, and the Catholic church there seems to some extent to have moved on from the issue anyway. And that applies even more to contraception, where official Catholic teachings are simply seen as ridiculous by most people in Europe (and imo with good reason, tbh "Breed and multiply, God will take care of it" is just seen as a primitive mentality, which would have severe ecological consequences if adopted).
    So I don't think the Catholic social programme with its often simplistic slogans would be a solution for the ills of Western societies, even if adopted in totality...but that's unlikely to happen anyway. imo it's far more likely that the Church in Western Europe will further accomodate itself to progressive sensibilities on many sexual and social issues, but focus on promotion of immigration and antiracism (and here it has significant lobbying powers), which is in line with the hegemonic culture and brings a certain prestige and relevance.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Coconuts, @Max Demian

    (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized

    Isn’t it, though, lower than the abortion rate in the US?

    imo it’s very questionable that it [abortion] could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree,

    Presumably you meant “restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already” or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it? In fact, I distinctly recall reading, sometime within the past decade, an Op-Ed in the New York Times that specifically cited France (if memory serves) as an example of a country with greater restrictions on abortion than the US (which the author argued were too lax).

    You make many cogent points in this, as well as many of the other comments of yours in this thread.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Max Demian


    Presumably you meant “restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already” or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it?
     
    Yes, that's true, I should have written "banned" or something similar (and imo there's no chance of that in Western Europe). You're right that abortion is much more regulated (and rightly so) in European countries than in most US states, though there are also of course attempts at eroding existing rules (a symbolic example: one of the first measures of Germany's new government will probably be making advertising for abortion legal).

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Max Demian


    abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction
     
    Is any Eurpoean country's law laxer than ours? Canada apparently has no regulation at all. The court threw the old law out, and it was never replaced.

    Wisconsin is in an interesting position. The old, strict statute is still on the books, and should Roe be overturned, it would be the default. With a Republican legislature and a Democratic governor. Stock up on green-and-gold popcorn.
  823. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    You need to look at the politics, history, culture, etc.
     
    If your goal is to understand reality you need to look at everything, including all those factors and also factors that may be unsettling or politically incorrect. That's how I evolved from a point of view similar to yours to my current one, after being witness to lots of direct evidence by living in Latin America. Reality doesn't care about our feelings or ideologies. It is what it is. And social matters are complex enough, we don't need to limit our understanding by setting limits to what may be studied or not.

    One interesting aspect of that latest graphic of comparative wealth that you have posted is that our great grandparents 100 years ago did not care much about political correctness and had a more realistic and intuitive view of the world than ours. If you had showed them that graph of what reality would be like 100 years later for those countries, they would have been very unsurprised. Important forces seem to be at play across generations.

    Perhaps Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population (less in the poorest regions of the North).

    BTW, I know Argentina quite well and have also visited Cuba and the idea that both countries have comprable levels of wealth is laughable. It looks like the World Bank has done some creative accounting there. Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity and those of them who don't have access to hard currency (a large part of the population) live basically on a subsistence diet of basic staples with a couple of pounds of meat per month if they're lucky, while foreign tourists enjoy luxury hotels. They've actually managed to build one of the most unequal societies in the Americas.

    Most elites are formed by the founding process of the country
     
    Yes, that's true to a great extent. Chile, for example, is not precisely known for being a paragon of upward mobility and right now they are in the process of dismantling everything that made them grow faster than their neighbors because it didn't bring social equality. The prevalence of old surnames with origins in the old Castilian and Basque landed aristocracy in the political and economic elites is quite surprising.

    But during my years there I got to know countless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite, while the native population remained much poorer than these recent immigrants.

    Deep inside, nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it's shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots as much as they can, living in more or less closed enclaves, but perhaps the middle and low classes are even more racist towards people who are darker than themselves. If you go through rental advertisements on the newspapers, it's very common to see notices "no Peruvians" or "no Haitians". The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    we don’t need to limit our understanding by setting limits

    Who said you need to set limits?

    My point is that in most disasterzones, we can see this in its culture, politics, institutions.

    As I write:
    “Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it’s more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one. ”

    This is how it is in the second world. You can look at Putin’s genetics – it might be not so far from even countries like Finland, but it will have limited prediction value if you wanted to know if your business will be expropriated. There you have more immediate causes.

    Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population

    But the question if you want to assess Argentina’s situation, invest in Argentina – why is there at the moment Argentina have 52% inflation?

    You can doubt it is predicted too perfectly by ratios of European descent. Israel is now running 2,3% inflation, with a lower proportion of descent, and so Singapore is some 3,8% inflation with far lower. Ukraine is going to 10% inflation, with a far higher level of European descent.

    Again, there are problems with the financial stability and it’s more related to the boring things they talk about in IMF reports.

    But then you want to ask why Argentina is such a crazy country with 52% inflation? It has to be something very significant in the culture and politics there.

    ountless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite,

    I’ve only read a little about these countries. But I think it seems that intelligent people can achieve upward mobility even in second world countries since the 20th century, as many of their wealthy people can be immigrants.

    In first world countries, even more. Look at the Indians in the USA. Meanwhile, India remains a third world country. (It’s not a genetic explanation for India).

    Most of my ancestors have extremely poor. But in another historical context, it suddenly seems very easy to become rapidly enriched. So our ancestors’ poverty can not have much of a genetic explanation in their particular case. And the possibility to become enriched, was very continent in the wider framework of society and a particular historical moment that present themselves rarely for our family history.

    Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity

    Under Batista as an economy it had been more developing, and could have resulted like Puerto Rico today. But there is not a result of political revolution with a reversal of the trade relationship with the world’s largest economy – United States

    nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it’s shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots

    This implies a colonial country, and this situation also implies that things like GDP growth will not be prioritized, rather than the power distribution.

    This is true in many second world countries, that the priority for development, is not the same as in Switzerland or Silicon Valley. This is in Russia today, that after a certain economic level was achieved (as early as 2008), the government has changed priorities.

    notices “no Peruvians” or “no Haitians”. The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.

    Surely. And in Brazil it can appear like the racial composition in bourgeois areas, can appear somekind of pure Portuguese.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    I have no missionary vocation. Believe what you must.

    In any case, genetics and culture are difficult to disentangle. And obviously environmental factors such as ease of doing business and a proper legal framework are essential for economic development under the best of circumstances, such as the two Koreas show.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  824. German_reader says:
    @Max Demian
    @German_reader


    (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized
     
    Isn't it, though, lower than the abortion rate in the US?

    imo it’s very questionable that it [abortion] could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree,
     
    Presumably you meant "restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already" or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it? In fact, I distinctly recall reading, sometime within the past decade, an Op-Ed in the New York Times that specifically cited France (if memory serves) as an example of a country with greater restrictions on abortion than the US (which the author argued were too lax).

    You make many cogent points in this, as well as many of the other comments of yours in this thread.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Reg Cæsar

    Presumably you meant “restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already” or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it?

    Yes, that’s true, I should have written “banned” or something similar (and imo there’s no chance of that in Western Europe). You’re right that abortion is much more regulated (and rightly so) in European countries than in most US states, though there are also of course attempts at eroding existing rules (a symbolic example: one of the first measures of Germany’s new government will probably be making advertising for abortion legal).

    • Thanks: Max Demian
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    Another example of what ThuleanFriend mentioned in reference to the difference between tolerating and celebrating things.
    In the past few years I have seen a push to "celebrate" women's "abortion stories". That is grotesque in the extreme, since the miraculous ability of women to bring forth life should be celebrated in any sane society.

    I'm curious for examples of how abortion is more regulated in Western European counties than in America. It's not something I know much about (other than the American side of the equation.)

    Replies: @German_reader

  825. @Vishnugupta
    @Dmitry

    Argentina's fabled turn of the century wealth was built on fertilizer and agro commodities exports.

    Fertilizer exports disappeared thanks to German invention of artificial fertilizer via the Fritz Haber process and agro exports alone couldn't cut it especially since yields boomed elsewhere post WW 2 due to cheap fertilizers and hybrid seeds.

    Its not like Argentina started the 20th century with advanced industry which disappeared due to unknown reasons.

    In terms of human capital it was never above Spain and always much below fully industrialized countries.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Mikel

    Fertilizer exports disappeared thanks to German invention of artificial fertilizer via the Fritz Haber process

    I don’t think this had much of an impact on Argentina. By contrast, it was pretty devastating for Chile’s very lucrative business of saltpeter (natural nitrates) mining. They had recently fought a war to gain access to the vast saltpeter deposit of the Atacama desert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Chile#Crisis_and_restructuring_(1914%E2%80%9338)

  826. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    we don’t need to limit our understanding by setting limits
     
    Who said you need to set limits?

    My point is that in most disasterzones, we can see this in its culture, politics, institutions.

    As I write:
    "Perhaps genetics can have a role, but it’s more of a blackbox. And we can see this role (if you think it can explain the divergence of the region from places like North America), must be limited, as we can see the same genetics with different results, and different genetics with the same one. "

    This is how it is in the second world. You can look at Putin's genetics - it might be not so far from even countries like Finland, but it will have limited prediction value if you wanted to know if your business will be expropriated. There you have more immediate causes.


    Argentina would have been a surprise but people of European-only descent in Argentina today are about 50% of the population

     

    But the question if you want to assess Argentina's situation, invest in Argentina - why is there at the moment Argentina have 52% inflation?

    You can doubt it is predicted too perfectly by ratios of European descent. Israel is now running 2,3% inflation, with a lower proportion of descent, and so Singapore is some 3,8% inflation with far lower. Ukraine is going to 10% inflation, with a far higher level of European descent.

    Again, there are problems with the financial stability and it's more related to the boring things they talk about in IMF reports.

    But then you want to ask why Argentina is such a crazy country with 52% inflation? It has to be something very significant in the culture and politics there.


    ountless descendants of European immigrants who arrived to Chile in the post-war years with nothing in their hands but somehow managed to enrich themselves and become also part of the current economic elite,

     

    I've only read a little about these countries. But I think it seems that intelligent people can achieve upward mobility even in second world countries since the 20th century, as many of their wealthy people can be immigrants.

    In first world countries, even more. Look at the Indians in the USA. Meanwhile, India remains a third world country. (It's not a genetic explanation for India).

    Most of my ancestors have extremely poor. But in another historical context, it suddenly seems very easy to become rapidly enriched. So our ancestors' poverty can not have much of a genetic explanation in their particular case. And the possibility to become enriched, was very continent in the wider framework of society and a particular historical moment that present themselves rarely for our family history.


    Cubans live in a permanent state of scarcity

     

    Under Batista as an economy it had been more developing, and could have resulted like Puerto Rico today. But there is not a result of political revolution with a reversal of the trade relationship with the world's largest economy - United States

    nobody knows the reality of their countries better than Latin Americans themselves and it’s shocking to see how racist they are, much more racist than anything you find in advanced countries of the West. It is well known how people of the higher classes try to avoid contact with their darker and poorer compatriots
     
    This implies a colonial country, and this situation also implies that things like GDP growth will not be prioritized, rather than the power distribution.

    This is true in many second world countries, that the priority for development, is not the same as in Switzerland or Silicon Valley. This is in Russia today, that after a certain economic level was achieved (as early as 2008), the government has changed priorities.


    notices “no Peruvians” or “no Haitians”. The comments sections of the news in major newspapers are a slugfest of racial slurs of everybody against everybody.
     
    Surely. And in Brazil it can appear like the racial composition in bourgeois areas, can appear somekind of pure Portuguese.

    Replies: @Mikel

    I have no missionary vocation. Believe what you must.

    In any case, genetics and culture are difficult to disentangle. And obviously environmental factors such as ease of doing business and a proper legal framework are essential for economic development under the best of circumstances, such as the two Koreas show.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    , genetics and culture are difficult to disentangle
     
    From the 19th century, Estonians were the most high literacy nationality (with the lowest fertility rates) in the Russian Empire.

    And if we look today, Estonians receive the most VC funds per capita in Europe.

    This might indicate some more entrepreneurial or even education ability in the Estonian population relative to other nationalities, which continues regardless of historical vicissitudes.

    https://i.imgur.com/DNEb478.jpg


    So is there some average genetic advantage of Estonians? Are they genetically destined to be more academic on average than us? Cultural advantage? Historical path dependence in their educational prioritization?

    These questions might be speculated, but they also must have some status like a black box, whether for historians or economists. Maybe Estonians are genetically disposed to study more, maybe not? Either way, their average higher education skills would not be too useful for VC funds, if the politicians started to expropriate companies.

    There are also more obvious things in Estonia of the last thirty years, which seemed more open boxes. The fact they follow the best advice for economic reform according to international guidelines, published by economists. The fact they have more equal balance of power, fiscal limits, political stability, property rights, safe investment climate, lack of dictators.

    There are also countries where the rulers can prioritize other things like control, after they attain to the medium development level.

    Whereas Estonia has installed a different form of government, which might therefore simply prioritize more business interest, over the control of the population.

    It's these kind of things which are also not too good in Latin America, and that's what seems so striking and region-wide (existing across different ethnic origin populations) with their recent history.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

  827. Polish Catholics cuck again: Polish president vetoes media bill, US welcomes move

    This way the USA can continue to fill Polish TV with degenerate propaganda: prog values=high status & cool, Catholics=cringe losers & haters. (Last time I was there Polish prime time TV was filled with filth like Law & Order: SVU). Sadly, Polish boomercons’ quivering fear of Russia combined with a growing bourgeois social-striving desire to impress Western Europeans can be easily leveraged by the US/EU/NATO to completely re-make Poland. Given the acceleration of events I think Poland will go full progtard even quicker than formerly Catholic Quebec, Spain and Ireland. (Cynical, secular Czechs may have more of a fighting chance than the Poles)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Matra

    iirc Trump's ambassador Mosbacher was also quite strident about the proposed law against this tv channel (also said Poland was "on the wrong side of history" on LGBT issues), so from the US side there is bipartisan consensus on this issue (just in case our resident defender of "Christian populism" wants to blame it only on Biden's admin).

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  828. German_reader says:
    @Matra
    Polish Catholics cuck again: Polish president vetoes media bill, US welcomes move

    This way the USA can continue to fill Polish TV with degenerate propaganda: prog values=high status & cool, Catholics=cringe losers & haters. (Last time I was there Polish prime time TV was filled with filth like Law & Order: SVU). Sadly, Polish boomercons' quivering fear of Russia combined with a growing bourgeois social-striving desire to impress Western Europeans can be easily leveraged by the US/EU/NATO to completely re-make Poland. Given the acceleration of events I think Poland will go full progtard even quicker than formerly Catholic Quebec, Spain and Ireland. (Cynical, secular Czechs may have more of a fighting chance than the Poles)

    Replies: @German_reader

    iirc Trump’s ambassador Mosbacher was also quite strident about the proposed law against this tv channel (also said Poland was “on the wrong side of history” on LGBT issues), so from the US side there is bipartisan consensus on this issue (just in case our resident defender of “Christian populism” wants to blame it only on Biden’s admin).

    • Agree: iffen, Max Demian
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    Where is A123 anyhow?

    Somebody turn on the "Let's Go Brandon" signal and beam it into the starry night above the bustling metropolis of UNZ!

    Replies: @German_reader, @iffen

  829. @Mr. Hack
    @Thulean Friend


    Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people’s concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.
     
    I think that just such a movement has been afoot mostly in the US under the guise of the "non-denominational" church movement. These churches do not bow to the authority of any centralized figure, and can vary in response to any particular religious doctrine. Often enough they form into large "mega-churches" that even include TV marketing channels. Mostly made up of many fallen away traditional protestant denominational members, they can also include fallen away Roman Catholics too. In many ways, I think this movement is the crystallization of those vocal "evanelicals" and "born again" Christians that made their mark on American society starting in the 1970's. I was surprised once when I ran into one who had a decent understanding of the concept of Theosis.

    https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_mistic/religionsplanetearth161_02.jpg
    One of the largest church congregations in the US, Lakeland Church, Houston TX

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church (not Lakeland.) That church building is a re-purposed basketball hockey arena the Houston Rockets used to be the main tenant inside.

    Things you will never hear out of Osteen’s mouth: sin, hell, redemption.

    I personally have never heard him say Jesus or Christ although I only have listened to him for seven, eight hours. If he quotes the Bible at all it’s going to be Proverbs most often. He would have made a great Pharisee.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    "Jesus wants YOU to have good teeth, a nice car, and to give me lot's of money!"

    Or something like that as far as I can tell.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I never said, or tried to indicate, that this movement was the best form of Christianity to ever evolve.
    Mr. Olsteen is of course the latest incarnation of the "prosperity church" preacher. Some of what he preaches is palatable to the human ear and it becomes apparent soon after you listen to him why his sort of preaching may appeal to so many listeners. He may indeed represent the "opium of the people" that Marx wrote about. But even opium can be destructive if overused and relied upon as a way to get through life's troublesome and painful moments. But this movement does seem to include a lot of the elements that Thulean Friend was searching for in his mythical protestant church of the future.

  830. From today’s amazing maps twitter, metal band pop in Euro:

  831. @Dmitry
    @AP


    Argentina is not simply Mexico with good classical musicians
     
    But despite the European architecture, advanced healthworkers and Argentina's classical music stars that currently dominate the world, the 20th century politics layer has not been better than Mexico, and sometimes perhaps worse, with military junta, mass tortures and mass assassinations (sometimes with support of the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War ).

    In addition, the situation with property rights and financial stability, could be worse than Mexico. For example, currently have 52% inflation in Argentina and hyperinflation is regular there.

    Argentina is currently more vulnerable than other Latin American countries.

    Bloomberg writes last month.
    "Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. "
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-23/inflation-is-raging-everywhere-but-it-s-worst-in-latin-america

    Obviously, Mexico can win its prizes, like a drug war which has killed up to 400,000 people since 2006.

    But Argentina has declined from being one of the wealthiest countries in the world a century ago. So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.


    best wild strawberries and raspberries were in Ukraine and Russia.

     

    I recommend growing these yourself in a pot, even in a balcony where squirrels do not climb.

    Their taste goes from very sour, to very delicious, depending on how ripe they become. It's not so much the location, but how ripe they become.

    So, it's really your timing which made them delicious. More you can wait, the more sweet they are. Although somewhere in September or October, they do not become sweet or ripe anymore.

    Replies: @Vishnugupta, @AP

    “Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. ”

    Yes, but this is a recent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina has a pattern of economic crises followed by growth or stagnation, it is not an even line for Argentina. For this reason, despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico. It has plunged down to Mexico’s level, but will likely return to a higher level. Look at the dramatic swings in Argentina compared to the steady growth in Mexico and DR:

    Under such circumstances, even during the dips the country would not feel as poor as Mexico. Yes, temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level, and personal items (such as cars or furniture purchased before the economy plunged) of a wealthier country, at least for several years until the economy returns to its baseline.

    It’s interesting to compare Argentina with Russia, in constant per capita 2015 US dollars:

    The Russian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years (1992-2004, with nadir in 1998), enough time for the country to really degrade (plus the decline was steeper than in Argentina’s crises). In contrast – Argentina had significant dips from 1988-1992 and from 2001-2004, a one year dip in 2009, and this plunge in 2020.

    So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.

    This patient is prone to periodic acute episodes of incapacitation followed by recovery to an overall greater state of health..

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    ussian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years
     
    This is the longer crisis in many ways even.

    If you look at oil revenue, even though oil production is climbing across the 1980s, the revenue is falling significantly.

    It's not until the 2000-s, that oil revenue can return to levels before 1980s crisis.

    This graph is showing oil revenue in billions of dollars. Almost 20 years for oil revenue to recover.
    https://i.imgur.com/dWRETao.png


    ecent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina
     
    They are one of the more regularly vulnerable for hyperinflation countries.

    It's also an economy that can crash, when the rest of the world is economically booming. Look at the Argentinian economy of 1998-2002 from Wikipedia.

    "The economy shrank by 28 percent from 1998 to 2002. In terms of income, over 50 percent of Argentines lived below the official poverty line and 25 percent were indigent (their basic needs were unmet); seven out of ten Argentine children were poor at the depth of the crisis in 2002"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression


    , temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level,
     
    When there is high inflation, you want to buy as soon as possible. So you would want to convert the depreciating currency for real products.

    Argentinians are often suffering hyperinflation and one of their stereotypical behaviors is apparently to expend disproportionate parts of the income to buy consumer goods.


    country would not feel as poor as Mexico.
     
    These financial crisis can be very scary. Much of the population can lose their savings, or fall to poverty in a few weeks.

    It's true that the poverty is not as permanent as it might seem (although you really lose your savings), and there are rapid returns. But it feels like it can be permanent during the time of the crisis.

    If you look at how the situation was for 2003 Argentina.
    "Argentina's unemployment rate stands close to 25 percent and it will take years to rebuild an economy crushed by mismanagement and a mountain of debt. Nearly 60 percent of the nation's 36 million people are poor and 10 million live in extreme poverty, meaning they go hungry in a place that once considered itself the world's grainery." https://web.archive.org/web/20040518155809/http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/03/26/argentina.train.reut/


    despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico.
     
    But which would be a safer investment zone? I'm not claiming to know anything, except from being frightened by the Argentinian finances, while not reading about the situation in Mexico yet.

    My impression from American media on YouTube, I believed that some Americans are comfortable to invest in Mexico. 400,000 people may have been killed in the Mexico drugs war since 2006, but for example some Americans still buy property there, and speak like they are confident they won't lose the money.

    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs-aRBsGbxc

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @Shortsword
    @AP


    It’s interesting to compare Argentina with Russia, in constant per capita 2015 US dollars:
     
    It's really not. If 2013 was chosen instead you would have Russia's graph being far above Argentina's. But the shape of both graphs would still look identical. That's because the shape of the graphs only depends on growth and not nominal gdp. But the starting point is chosen in nominal numbers. This more or less means that the graphs are pushed down or up depending on the chosen starting year.

    Nominal gdp in constant prices just isn't very useful for comparing different countries.

  832. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church (not Lakeland.) That church building is a re-purposed basketball hockey arena the Houston Rockets used to be the main tenant inside.

    Things you will never hear out of Osteen's mouth: sin, hell, redemption.

    I personally have never heard him say Jesus or Christ although I only have listened to him for seven, eight hours. If he quotes the Bible at all it's going to be Proverbs most often. He would have made a great Pharisee.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Mr. Hack

    “Jesus wants YOU to have good teeth, a nice car, and to give me lot’s of money!”

    Or something like that as far as I can tell.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Barbarossa

    Or something like that as far as I can tell.

    "Send our ministry $25 and God will reward you a hundredfold. If you don't have $25, go next door and borrow it from your neighbor and God will reward you thousandfold."

  833. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church (not Lakeland.) That church building is a re-purposed basketball hockey arena the Houston Rockets used to be the main tenant inside.

    Things you will never hear out of Osteen's mouth: sin, hell, redemption.

    I personally have never heard him say Jesus or Christ although I only have listened to him for seven, eight hours. If he quotes the Bible at all it's going to be Proverbs most often. He would have made a great Pharisee.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Mr. Hack

    I never said, or tried to indicate, that this movement was the best form of Christianity to ever evolve.
    Mr. Olsteen is of course the latest incarnation of the “prosperity church” preacher. Some of what he preaches is palatable to the human ear and it becomes apparent soon after you listen to him why his sort of preaching may appeal to so many listeners. He may indeed represent the “opium of the people” that Marx wrote about. But even opium can be destructive if overused and relied upon as a way to get through life’s troublesome and painful moments. But this movement does seem to include a lot of the elements that Thulean Friend was searching for in his mythical protestant church of the future.

  834. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    because your own (eth-nat?) analysis is supposed to contribute something of value? Because it is widely taken seriously by populations in Western Europe?
     
    I have no illusions about my perspective being taken seriously or finding mainstream acceptance, and I don't think I've ever claimed anything of the sort (nor have I ever proposed some kind of programme for the organization of society). Whether it's supposed to contribute "something of value"? Sounds a bit like the usual condemnations of any point of view that isn't framed in universalist platitudes. If you think I'm some delusional Nazi monster, you can state so openly.
    But I ask again: What would "dismantling the neo-liberal economic system" actually mean in practice, in terms of specific policy proposals? What makes you think Francis' economic ideas would be a solution for the problems of Pakistan, Egypt or Nigeria? Why should one assume everything will just change magically for the better in the Global South, if only the alleged exploitation by Western capitalists stops?
    imo your type of argument is just wishful thinking, attractive to people who are at least somewhat bothered by mass migration, but are unwilling to take a really hard line. So there's this idea, if "we" only change our sinful ways, stop consumerism and the exploitation of the 3rd world, have more children again and follow the church, then everything will turn out ok and we won't have to be "mean" and turn migrants away, because they won't be trying to come anyway. I think that's an illusion (and also some strange power fantasy in a way, as if everything in the world revolved around white Westerners, and we could "fix" the world, if only we cared more or weren't so mindlessly exploitative), but if you want to put your hopes in it, I'm not going to argue about it.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I have no illusions about my perspective being taken seriously or finding mainstream acceptance,
    and I don’t think I’ve ever claimed anything of the sort (nor have I ever proposed some kind of programme for the organization of society). Whether it’s supposed to contribute “something of value”? Sounds a bit like the usual condemnations of any point of view that isn’t framed in universalist platitudes. If you think I’m some delusional Nazi monster, you can state so openly.

    I don’t remember anything you have written making me think you are a Nazi, I was thinking something like Ethno-Nat Liberal, but on reflection it is hard to say. Nazis usually have at least a tacit idea of a program for the organisation of society, are interested in shared belief and some kind of political action (even if only in principle), so you may hear something interesting from them.

    If Ethno-Nat liberal is accurate you may have the kind of viewpoint that is like target no.1 for Woke identity politics, and now also has little irl backing. I don’t think that this is a positive thing but it seems to be the way things are going.

    But I ask again: What would “dismantling the neo-liberal economic system” actually mean in practice, in terms of specific policy proposals?

    Why were you asking this? I didn’t set out to provide the absolute solution to world economic development. I pointed out how, thinking mainly about Europe, if it was implemented, the Pope’s teaching would be likely to bring an end to the migration problem, and would be more likely to secure the perpetuation of European peoples than what we have at the moment. Taking it as given that it ever being implemented is extremely unlikely.

    So there’s this idea, if “we” only change our sinful ways, stop consumerism and the exploitation of the 3rd world, have more children again and follow the church, then everything will turn out ok and we won’t have to be “mean” and turn migrants away, because they won’t be trying to come anyway.

    Practically any illiberal right wing ideology will have similar content, and parts of the left; people should stop being bugmen, adopt a less individualistic, consumer materialist worldview, have more children, once you have a healthier and less aged population and stronger political control migrants won’t want to come in ever growing numbers and/or there will be public support and political will to remove them if they cause disruption.

    Being hardline on immigration is not that significant if you don’t believe anyone will take your perspective seriously and there is no broader political view behind it. Equally being against universalism, why use left terms like ‘colonialism’ as if they are derogatory or negative? (Unless it is something directed against your own ethnic group).

    I don’t really believe in Ethno-Nat liberalism and the way things are going there are going to be attempts to attack or marginalise it even more, so you are right that I won’t be adopting that viewpoint at present.

    My replies may be bad tempered at the moment, I have had flu over Christmas.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    I pointed out how, thinking mainly about Europe, if it was implemented, the Pope’s teaching would be likely to bring an end to the migration problem
     

    I just don't see how that could be possible, for the entire 21st century there's likely to be very strong migratory pressure. I even agree with Thulean_Friend in a sense, on an individual level it's understandable that many people want to emigrate from countries like Pakistan, Nigeria or Egypt (though for some strange reason Egypt doesn't seem to produce that many migrants so far, but if it ever blows up for political or environmental reasons, it will be a catastrophe). There's been too much demographic growth in the Global South, so you've got a gigantic cohort of young men without real prospects, all the more so given how riven by corruption and nepotism these societies are, a situation which is likely to lead to strong migratory flows from these failing societies and/or intense civil conflicts. And things are only going to get worse with climate change, especially in Africa where there's still strong demographic growth. I think it's likely there'll be really terrible conflicts in Africa over coming decades, maybe even religious wars, given the spread of radical Islamic movements (and also some rather strange forms of Christianity), on a scale well beyond anything we have seen so far. So many people will actually have good reasons to flee.
    Now there certainly are things one should at least try to do, like attempting to mitigate climate change, or providing security assistance to states in the Sahel zone (and it would be good if Western foreign policy changed, since the effects of sanctions policy and military interventions in the Mideast have been disastrous, but that's something that's mostly decided in the US, though the Europeans could at least try not to be so subservient). I'm not even totally unsympathetic to the perspective of those arguing that the international economic order is unjust (even though I think the current pope is a simple-minded demagogue, possibly influenced by Peronism or similar failed ideologies). Maybe there are things that should be tried, like debt forgiveness, less pressure on developing countries for free trade, or changes to Europe's agricultural policy (I'm not an economist, these are just some issues that are commonly cited as policies supposedly holding back Global South countries). But even if such policy changes were enacted, I doubt it would really "fix" these societies with all their ingrained corruption, their ethnic and sectarian conflicts, their environmental degradation resulting from population growth etc. So there will always be a humanitarian justification for mass immigration, unless there's a significant values change in Europe and one hardens one's heart against the suffering of others (in the sense of not letting them immigrate), for the sake of self-preservation. But given the mindset of much of the current Catholic hierarchy (at least in Europe, ironically Cardinal Sarah from Ghana has been critical of mass migration) and of prominent Catholic laymen, I don't see that ever happening in any order based on Catholic social teaching.

    Being hardline on immigration is not that significant if you don’t believe anyone will take your perspective seriously and there is no broader political view behind it.
     
    Sure, and I even agree that European societies should go back to a more family-oriented culture (question of course is, how?), and I wouldn't describe myself as liberal on marriage and family issues (definitely in favour of a traditional model). But I have no solution for the issues discussed here, and the entire topic just depresses me, because the way things are going, it might come down either to an end for most European peoples (probably the more likely outcome), or solutions that are really unpalatable and might involve significant bloodshed. tbh I've become fairly nihilistic and on some level just hope I'll be dead before the worst. I guess I shouldn't comment on these matters anymore, since I don't have much constructive to say.

    My replies may be bad tempered at the moment, I have had flu over Christmas.
     
    Sorry about that, I wish you a speedy recovery.
  835. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    “Protestantism” can mean lots of things, e.g. there’s quite the difference between Lutheran state churches in Germany/Scandinavia and Baptists in America (let alone something like charismatic Pentecostalists), and those differences go right back to the 16th century, so you’d have to be more precise what you have in mind.
     
    I wouldn't promote an existing stream within Protestantism given that most of them have failed. Many more hardline factions have degenerated into quackery (your example of Pentecostalism is a good example). Something new would essentially have to be created, and one which speaks to people's concerns and not trying to win a narrow sectarian intra-Protestant theological war.

    In other words, don't bother too much with the formal symbolism and instead fuss over things like familial breakdown, alienation and forming a stronger community. Tailor the religion to those needs rather than trying to take an existing structure (which has failed so far) and attempt to shoe-horn it the social challenges in which it has manifestly failed to address.

    Also, what does “radical” mean here?
     
    A radical break with the current direction of the vast majority of Protestant doctrines, while also avoiding the 'charismatic' tendencies which inevitably degenerate into personality cults etc.

    As an aside, I think Protestantism is the best possible candidate not just because it is easiest to mold but also because it allows for priests to be married, which limits pedophilia and other social evils.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @silviosilver, @Barbarossa

    it allows for priests to be married

    So do the Eastern Rite churches, if one finds ceremony meaningful. I agree that the celibate priesthood has become one of many problems for the RC church, but the abusive dynamic can and will rear it’s head anytime there is a leadership position.

    I suspect that any attempts to mold an ideal religion for our modern age will be a failure. Engineering religions have been tried and they don’t seem to catch on in a socially meaningful way. This may have something to do with the nature of religious devotion. Religion often asks us to act in ways that are directly opposed to our desires and inclinations. Whether remaining married in a difficult situation, fasting, or giving of our substance to help those who cannot repay us, religions often fly in the face of calculation and rational thinking.

    Religions have been used and channeled to the advantage of secular rulers frequently enough, but I suspect that success still depends on an inherently compelling pull. As YellowfaceAnon mentioned, Wokism is really a secular religion which seems capable of giving the simulation of meaning to many.

    The individualism of our current age, fueled by the destruction of deep mutual dependencies made possible by great material wealth, is the primary obstacle to the development of a cohesive social identity. We can get away with burning down our social structures because we don’t believe we need each other. Screw your neighbors, since Amazon will still deliver. It’s the completion of the contractual society.

    I don’t think that things can turn around around until things get much worse materially, making mutual cooperation a matter of survival again.

  836. @AP
    @utu


    Wild blueberries do not grow in Europe. European bilberries wich people confuse for blueberries have much sharper flavor and are dark red/blue inside.
     
    Yes, I was contrasting the wild blueberries I had in Maine with ones sold in supermarkets or even at farms elsewhere.

    IMO , blueberries are dull though they can pass as substitute in baking for bilberries but are underwhelming.
     
    This is true, except for those wild ones in Maine. They were very small but incredibly sweet and flavorful (analogous to Ukrainian/Russian strawberries); I would just eat a handful.

    “wild strawberries” – garden strawberries were developed from American (North and South) wild strawberries in 18th century in France. Apparently European wild strawberries were not used in hybridization. However European wild strawberries were hybridized and developed into garden variety but are slightly larger and less fragrant that the real will wild strawberries.
     
    Interesting. Thanks!

    I had real wild strawberries in the southern Urals - I think they are regionally called "Victorias" 0for some reason. Absolutely amazing. But all strawberries I've had in Russia and Ukraine are smaller and uglier but far better than anything sold in American supermarkets or farmers markets, including ones like Wholefoods. In Ukraine I would have a bowl of strawberries for breakfast with tea, such pleasure.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    called “Victorias”

    These are strawberries that were created (from American strawberries) by gardeners for Queen Victoria. They are not a wild strawberry origin, but a hybrid strawberry that was created as a more medium size with higher productivity. Their origin was from native American strawberries, as opposed to the European strawberries. The strawberry in the supermarket are also different hybrids cultivated from those American strawberries.

    real wild strawberries in

    These very small strawberries are “fragaria vesca”, they are the strawberries which are native everywhere in Europe, before the discovery of the New World.

    Although it’s actually easiest to grow in pots. They are the easiest one to grow and continue producing for many months every year from the same pot.

    They taste delicious only if you allow them to become very ripe. It’s your timing in terms of collecting them which determines how good they will taste. If you have any garden or even balcony, I recommend growing them. It’s one of the easiest things I’ve grown and each plant makes a lot of little strawberries.

    • Thanks: AP
  837. @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    I have no missionary vocation. Believe what you must.

    In any case, genetics and culture are difficult to disentangle. And obviously environmental factors such as ease of doing business and a proper legal framework are essential for economic development under the best of circumstances, such as the two Koreas show.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , genetics and culture are difficult to disentangle

    From the 19th century, Estonians were the most high literacy nationality (with the lowest fertility rates) in the Russian Empire.

    And if we look today, Estonians receive the most VC funds per capita in Europe.

    This might indicate some more entrepreneurial or even education ability in the Estonian population relative to other nationalities, which continues regardless of historical vicissitudes.

    So is there some average genetic advantage of Estonians? Are they genetically destined to be more academic on average than us? Cultural advantage? Historical path dependence in their educational prioritization?

    These questions might be speculated, but they also must have some status like a black box, whether for historians or economists. Maybe Estonians are genetically disposed to study more, maybe not? Either way, their average higher education skills would not be too useful for VC funds, if the politicians started to expropriate companies.

    There are also more obvious things in Estonia of the last thirty years, which seemed more open boxes. The fact they follow the best advice for economic reform according to international guidelines, published by economists. The fact they have more equal balance of power, fiscal limits, political stability, property rights, safe investment climate, lack of dictators.

    There are also countries where the rulers can prioritize other things like control, after they attain to the medium development level.

    Whereas Estonia has installed a different form of government, which might therefore simply prioritize more business interest, over the control of the population.

    It’s these kind of things which are also not too good in Latin America, and that’s what seems so striking and region-wide (existing across different ethnic origin populations) with their recent history.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    And if we look today, Estonians receive the most VC funds per capita in Europe.
     
    Estonia is a very popular location for setting up a remote IT firm and they even hand out "e-citizenships" to foreign entrepreneurs, so a large fraction of that VC funding is likely going to outsiders who merely use it as a taxation base (much like Ireland's GDP is inflated due to American firms doing tax shenanigans).

    Nevertheless, even factoring this in, it's certainly true that Estonia is very open to entrepreneurship, has very low levels of debt and has achieved high levels of prosperity after communism very quickly. Their tax code is minimalistic and clean and their bureaucratic efficiency is high. All of which to say that Estonia's an impressive country, but using VC funds per capita might not be the best metric to use here, given the particularities of their circumstances.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

  838. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    I have no illusions about my perspective being taken seriously or finding mainstream acceptance,
    and I don’t think I’ve ever claimed anything of the sort (nor have I ever proposed some kind of programme for the organization of society). Whether it’s supposed to contribute “something of value”? Sounds a bit like the usual condemnations of any point of view that isn’t framed in universalist platitudes. If you think I’m some delusional Nazi monster, you can state so openly.
     
    I don't remember anything you have written making me think you are a Nazi, I was thinking something like Ethno-Nat Liberal, but on reflection it is hard to say. Nazis usually have at least a tacit idea of a program for the organisation of society, are interested in shared belief and some kind of political action (even if only in principle), so you may hear something interesting from them.

    If Ethno-Nat liberal is accurate you may have the kind of viewpoint that is like target no.1 for Woke identity politics, and now also has little irl backing. I don't think that this is a positive thing but it seems to be the way things are going.


    But I ask again: What would “dismantling the neo-liberal economic system” actually mean in practice, in terms of specific policy proposals?
     
    Why were you asking this? I didn't set out to provide the absolute solution to world economic development. I pointed out how, thinking mainly about Europe, if it was implemented, the Pope's teaching would be likely to bring an end to the migration problem, and would be more likely to secure the perpetuation of European peoples than what we have at the moment. Taking it as given that it ever being implemented is extremely unlikely.

    So there’s this idea, if “we” only change our sinful ways, stop consumerism and the exploitation of the 3rd world, have more children again and follow the church, then everything will turn out ok and we won’t have to be “mean” and turn migrants away, because they won’t be trying to come anyway.
     
    Practically any illiberal right wing ideology will have similar content, and parts of the left; people should stop being bugmen, adopt a less individualistic, consumer materialist worldview, have more children, once you have a healthier and less aged population and stronger political control migrants won't want to come in ever growing numbers and/or there will be public support and political will to remove them if they cause disruption.

    Being hardline on immigration is not that significant if you don't believe anyone will take your perspective seriously and there is no broader political view behind it. Equally being against universalism, why use left terms like 'colonialism' as if they are derogatory or negative? (Unless it is something directed against your own ethnic group).

    I don't really believe in Ethno-Nat liberalism and the way things are going there are going to be attempts to attack or marginalise it even more, so you are right that I won't be adopting that viewpoint at present.

    My replies may be bad tempered at the moment, I have had flu over Christmas.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I pointed out how, thinking mainly about Europe, if it was implemented, the Pope’s teaching would be likely to bring an end to the migration problem

    [MORE]

    I just don’t see how that could be possible, for the entire 21st century there’s likely to be very strong migratory pressure. I even agree with Thulean_Friend in a sense, on an individual level it’s understandable that many people want to emigrate from countries like Pakistan, Nigeria or Egypt (though for some strange reason Egypt doesn’t seem to produce that many migrants so far, but if it ever blows up for political or environmental reasons, it will be a catastrophe). There’s been too much demographic growth in the Global South, so you’ve got a gigantic cohort of young men without real prospects, all the more so given how riven by corruption and nepotism these societies are, a situation which is likely to lead to strong migratory flows from these failing societies and/or intense civil conflicts. And things are only going to get worse with climate change, especially in Africa where there’s still strong demographic growth. I think it’s likely there’ll be really terrible conflicts in Africa over coming decades, maybe even religious wars, given the spread of radical Islamic movements (and also some rather strange forms of Christianity), on a scale well beyond anything we have seen so far. So many people will actually have good reasons to flee.
    Now there certainly are things one should at least try to do, like attempting to mitigate climate change, or providing security assistance to states in the Sahel zone (and it would be good if Western foreign policy changed, since the effects of sanctions policy and military interventions in the Mideast have been disastrous, but that’s something that’s mostly decided in the US, though the Europeans could at least try not to be so subservient). I’m not even totally unsympathetic to the perspective of those arguing that the international economic order is unjust (even though I think the current pope is a simple-minded demagogue, possibly influenced by Peronism or similar failed ideologies). Maybe there are things that should be tried, like debt forgiveness, less pressure on developing countries for free trade, or changes to Europe’s agricultural policy (I’m not an economist, these are just some issues that are commonly cited as policies supposedly holding back Global South countries). But even if such policy changes were enacted, I doubt it would really “fix” these societies with all their ingrained corruption, their ethnic and sectarian conflicts, their environmental degradation resulting from population growth etc. So there will always be a humanitarian justification for mass immigration, unless there’s a significant values change in Europe and one hardens one’s heart against the suffering of others (in the sense of not letting them immigrate), for the sake of self-preservation. But given the mindset of much of the current Catholic hierarchy (at least in Europe, ironically Cardinal Sarah from Ghana has been critical of mass migration) and of prominent Catholic laymen, I don’t see that ever happening in any order based on Catholic social teaching.

    Being hardline on immigration is not that significant if you don’t believe anyone will take your perspective seriously and there is no broader political view behind it.

    Sure, and I even agree that European societies should go back to a more family-oriented culture (question of course is, how?), and I wouldn’t describe myself as liberal on marriage and family issues (definitely in favour of a traditional model). But I have no solution for the issues discussed here, and the entire topic just depresses me, because the way things are going, it might come down either to an end for most European peoples (probably the more likely outcome), or solutions that are really unpalatable and might involve significant bloodshed. tbh I’ve become fairly nihilistic and on some level just hope I’ll be dead before the worst. I guess I shouldn’t comment on these matters anymore, since I don’t have much constructive to say.

    My replies may be bad tempered at the moment, I have had flu over Christmas.

    Sorry about that, I wish you a speedy recovery.

  839. @AP
    @Mikel

    I've never been there but based on discussion and constant stream of facebook pictures and updates from family, it looks like a Visegrad country - richer than Ukraine, but poorer than Western Europe. According to Worldbank, Argentina was richer than Poland in constant GDP PPP in the 1990s, was about the same as Poland from 2000-2010, and then stagnated while Poland moved ahead.



    I have an aunt from Ukraine who moved to Argentina in the early 1990s. She and my cousin who moved there in her early teens visited us a few years ago - it was fun to see the waiter's reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish. My cousin married an Italian guy in Buenos Aires, her brother who is into outdoor activities such as mountain biking moved to a desert region in the northwest and has a pretty Mestiza wife.

    Replies: @Mikel

    it was fun to see the waiter’s reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish.

    Yes, I know. I am not blond but I had my own moments of fun in Chile whenever people took me for a “gringo” and started to speak in English (or more commonly Spanglish) to me.

    Speaking of blonde Ukrainians, last summer I watched a Sweden-Ukraine soccer match and at the beginning I wasn’t sure which team was which, the players looked quite similar physically. I actually think I realized who the Swedes were when I saw a black player, that had to be a Swede.

    Sometime in the 70s, in times of greater freedom of expression, the economics Nobel Prize winner Simon Kuznets said that there are 4 kinds of countries in the world: the developed ones, the undeveloped ones, Japan and Argentina. Meaning that Japan wasn’t supposed to be rich, being an oriental country, but was. And Argentina was supposed to be rich, being white, but wasn’t.

    Now things have changed and we don’t see so much of extraordinary in the cases of Japan and Argentina. Perhaps the new economic mystery is Ukraine. Why is it so poor? The only time I visited Kiev, in the 90s, I did get the impression that it was poorer than its neighbors, including Russia, and people in Kiev did seem perhaps to be more southern looking than in Poland, where I was traveling from. But later on I have met quite a few Ukrainian expatriates in Chile, Argentina, and recently in the US and these are generally not the kind of people that one associates with dysfunctional countries.

    I don’t have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?

    I hope I am not invoking Hacks’ Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country. The whole world has entered a new cold war era, much more senseless than the previous one, after the 2014 events in Ukraine so I think that it is objectively interesting to understand this country better.

    BTW, I have been more sympathetic than not to the Russian side in the Ukrainian conflict but I have the feeling that Putin is planning to do something that I won’t like. Russian moves tend to be unpredictable and crude.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    economic mystery is Ukraine.
     
    Ukraine is the same as all postsoviet countries, except for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania which seem to have resolved many of the postsoviet problems (but they are in the EU).* And Ukraine also has some additional problems of lack of oil/gas, political instability, conflict with neighbors.

    I don't think there is so much mystery about these problems, and neither is there seeming so much mystery (at least in naming of many problems) for Argentina/Mexico/Brazil.

    Economic, social and political problems of the postsoviet sphere are explained even by American media (which cannot basic things about the local culture otherwise) as CNBC, Bloomberg, CNN, in basic textbooks of economic history, beginners' books of political science. Most of the world knows about these problems, although knowing the problems unfortunately doesn't necessarily make it easier to solve.

    -

    * I'm emotionally sympathetic to so many beautiful things in the Soviet Union and Russian Empire, but this multigenerational mess afterwards is one of the areas where you cannot defend, and will give a point to AP's point of view about this region - when there is such mess, then you should be forced to question the wisdom of events which preceded it even where they were sources of pride.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @AP
    @Mikel


    I don’t have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?
     
    Unlike in other countries, Ukraine inherited a post-colonial situation: outside Galicia, all of its elites were Soviet compradors, and worse - those who were too incompetent to make it to Moscow so they were left behind in provincial Ukraine. Unlike the Communist-era elites of places like Poland, many of whom who were crypto-nationalists and Polish patriots at heart, the elites in Ukraine had little or no attachment to Ukraine and cynically used independence as way of stealing as much as possible without someone in Moscow looking over their shoulder (these same elites also found a way to avoid joining the EU with its scrutiny). Because pretty much all of the elites were like this, the Ukrainian people had no one else to choose from who had any experience running a government or business. A bloody revolution involving mass killings of the Soviet-era elites might have solved this, but this would have been terrible in its own way. Until Zelensky they didn't want to take chance with someone with no governing or business experience. So the Ukrainian people were stuck.

    Galicia is an exception (its the only region where the main political parties are parties with political programs such as Svoboda or Samopomich, rather than oligarch projects) but it is only 10% of the country by population, plus the real money being made in Ukraine was in steel and coal in the East. So by virtue of its passionate nationalism Galicia could steer the rest of the country culturally but could not attain power economically or politically - this power was firmly in the hands of the eastern oligarchs. If Galicia had become independent in 1991 it would have become another prosperous Visegrad country, similar to its neighbors Poland and Slovakia. But it would never do this because nationalism is very strong there.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel


    I hope I am not invoking Hacks’ Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country.
     
    It heartens me to see that the time that I spend at this blog is time well spent, working as an apostle promoting Ukraine's importance to the modern world. I can see that you're headed in the right direction! You may hope or not, but my message seems to be getting through. :-)
  840. @AP
    @Dmitry


    “Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. ”
     
    Yes, but this is a recent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina has a pattern of economic crises followed by growth or stagnation, it is not an even line for Argentina. For this reason, despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico. It has plunged down to Mexico's level, but will likely return to a higher level. Look at the dramatic swings in Argentina compared to the steady growth in Mexico and DR:

    https://i.imgur.com/YAUaD61.png

    Under such circumstances, even during the dips the country would not feel as poor as Mexico. Yes, temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level, and personal items (such as cars or furniture purchased before the economy plunged) of a wealthier country, at least for several years until the economy returns to its baseline.

    It's interesting to compare Argentina with Russia, in constant per capita 2015 US dollars:

    https://i.imgur.com/xKlGDOs.png

    The Russian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years (1992-2004, with nadir in 1998), enough time for the country to really degrade (plus the decline was steeper than in Argentina's crises). In contrast - Argentina had significant dips from 1988-1992 and from 2001-2004, a one year dip in 2009, and this plunge in 2020.

    So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.

     

    This patient is prone to periodic acute episodes of incapacitation followed by recovery to an overall greater state of health..

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Shortsword

    ussian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years

    This is the longer crisis in many ways even.

    If you look at oil revenue, even though oil production is climbing across the 1980s, the revenue is falling significantly.

    It’s not until the 2000-s, that oil revenue can return to levels before 1980s crisis.

    This graph is showing oil revenue in billions of dollars. Almost 20 years for oil revenue to recover.

    ecent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina

    They are one of the more regularly vulnerable for hyperinflation countries.

    It’s also an economy that can crash, when the rest of the world is economically booming. Look at the Argentinian economy of 1998-2002 from Wikipedia.

    “The economy shrank by 28 percent from 1998 to 2002. In terms of income, over 50 percent of Argentines lived below the official poverty line and 25 percent were indigent (their basic needs were unmet); seven out of ten Argentine children were poor at the depth of the crisis in 2002”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression

    , temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level,

    When there is high inflation, you want to buy as soon as possible. So you would want to convert the depreciating currency for real products.

    Argentinians are often suffering hyperinflation and one of their stereotypical behaviors is apparently to expend disproportionate parts of the income to buy consumer goods.

    country would not feel as poor as Mexico.

    These financial crisis can be very scary. Much of the population can lose their savings, or fall to poverty in a few weeks.

    It’s true that the poverty is not as permanent as it might seem (although you really lose your savings), and there are rapid returns. But it feels like it can be permanent during the time of the crisis.

    If you look at how the situation was for 2003 Argentina.
    “Argentina’s unemployment rate stands close to 25 percent and it will take years to rebuild an economy crushed by mismanagement and a mountain of debt. Nearly 60 percent of the nation’s 36 million people are poor and 10 million live in extreme poverty, meaning they go hungry in a place that once considered itself the world’s grainery.” https://web.archive.org/web/20040518155809/http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/03/26/argentina.train.reut/

    despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico.

    But which would be a safer investment zone? I’m not claiming to know anything, except from being frightened by the Argentinian finances, while not reading about the situation in Mexico yet.

    My impression from American media on YouTube, I believed that some Americans are comfortable to invest in Mexico. 400,000 people may have been killed in the Mexico drugs war since 2006, but for example some Americans still buy property there, and speak like they are confident they won’t lose the money.

    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.
     
    Mexico is a plantation outpost of the US in a way that Argentina just is not. A very large share of US industrial firms have outsourced at least part of their production to Mexico. In other words, Mexico simply cannot be allowed to fail and if the country would face difficulties or instability that was threatening the integrity of the country then US elites would step in, whether Mexicans wanted to or not.

    Nothing similar exists with regards to Argentina, so their extravagant eccentricities can be tolerated since it isn't a country of systemic importance. Even "far-left" AMLO has been surprisingly fiscally conservative in his spending. He has chosen GDP declines in order to prioritise macroeconomic stability. He doesn't have much choice, he surely understands what will happen to him if he wants to go on a detour and indulge in his far-left supporters' fantasies.

    Seen in this light, US investors have a rational expectation that nothing much will happen. The only real constraint would be crime and the relative stagnation of Mexican society. From what I've heard, crime in Mexico is very localised and it's a highly unequal country, so if you know where to live, you could probably live quite well without fearing for random street violence.

    The woman in your video bought a house for $160K. That is very cheap by Western standards but Mexican wages are also 6-8 times lower. So the real comparison would be a house worth ~$1 million dollars in the West. For that money, you will live in a very good neighbourhood. Since she was an artist, she obviously didn't have much money and she didn't inherit wealth (otherwise she would have stayed in California, where she was for 25 years). From her point of view, it was a pragmatic economic decision to live comfortably in a country with relative political stability by sacrificing the dynamism of California for the sluggishness of Mexico.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

  841. @Thulean Friend
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks for a thoughtful comment.


    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion.

    Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.

    Part of this was the Churches’ insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.
     

    Divorce should be discouraged but not forbidden. In my extended family, I have several examples of very long-lasting marriages (still ongoing!) and what I have noticed is that almost all of them have survived because the couples learned to live somewhat separately. The couples still live under one roof but have their separate rooms where they sleep. In one case, my aunt even "sent" her husband away to work in another city while he was allowed to visit on the weekends to check in on his kids. Now they live together again, as they are helping with their grandkids.

    I think if low divorce rates are to be maintained, this kind of flexibility will be required as even couples which fit very well can't be expected to be as close as they were the initial years.

    There's also the non-trivial fact that men tend to have higher sex drives and many marriages "dry up" after some years. Prostitution is viewed negatively, but I don't see any other way out than to be pragmatic on this issue, unless you want to be more permissible on divorce. If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews). Men's urges are what they are and this what I meant when I wrote to German_reader earlier that religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people's needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.

    Personally, I’ve had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.
     

    I think a personal challenge for me is that I am quite content with my life, warts and all. So the ballast of stability that religion would provide me is limited.

    My advocacy is based on what I see around me, at the social level. People are not feeling well. I have liberal instincts and would not want to see women's rights desecrated in the name of spirituality, but at the same time I can't see how either men or women are happy with casual dating. I know lots of people who rode that carousel and feel lousy now. Hell, even former Sex and the City stars are now admitting that they miss having children.

    Family formation is very important and only religion seem to have a strong impact on people. It's impossible to have a sane discussion with liberal and left-leaning people on these issues due to rampant secularism. Some of their concerns are valid, however, as they pertain to the limitation of individual rights. If someone wants to lead a child-free life they should be allowed to do so, but I don't think it's a healthy rolemodel for society. I also don't think we shouldn't be judgemental, since toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Max Demian, @Barbarossa

    If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia

    Isn’t that a rather odd, even radical statement? Did you actually mean to assert, as your words would clearly seem to imply, that in communities that severely stigmatize, disincentivize and punish (through steep social costs such as shame and ostracization) both prostitution and divorce, as well as adultery*, that the actual, de facto incidence of all of those vices is sufficiently low, and the incidence of the vice of resorting to the use of children for sexual gratification sufficiently high, that the latter (i.e., “pedophilia”, for short) completely overshadows the former (i.e, prostitution, adultery and divorce combined)?

    *Concerning adultery, is it your presumption that among demographics for which said vice is sufficiently stigmatized, disincentivized and punished , that adultery simply does not occur at any statistically significant level? Is that not the implication of the conspicuous absence in your comment of any mention, at least an explicit one, of adultery?

    Moreover, does your statement not also presuppose that at least a latent proclivity toward pedophilia* is commonly, if not universally, found in normal men?

    *As opposed to hebephilia, ephebophilia or even pederasty.

    On what basis would any of these assumptions and assertions be made?

    [MORE]

    (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews).

    On what basis do you assert that pedophilia is “rampant” among ultra-Orthodox [sic*] Jews? Is there any credible evidence that the incidence of pedophilia is any more prevalent among any subset of Jews than said phenomena (however defined) among either the general population or any other subset thereof? Any credible data? (Sensationalist tabloid articles, blog posts and the like that rely upon anecdotal, uncorroborated reports from individuals, often anonymous and almost always anything-but disinterested or objective, and of dubious character, does not qualify as credible data.)

    Men’s urges are what they are

    Question: Is it possible for a man to experience no conflict between his libido and his moral standards?

    Answer: Sure; as long as least one of those two (i.e., libido; moral standards) are low enough.

    Alternative version of same idea: Show me a man who experiences no conflict between his moral standards and his libido. And I’ll show you a man who has an exceptionally low libido. Or remarkably low moral standards. At least one of those two.

    religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people’s needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.

    A counter-perspective to that was articulated by Barbarossa, in the comment in which he quoted C.S. Lewis. By establishing an ideal to strive toward, rigorous standards provide much value even if never quite reached. This applies not only in the religious realm but also in the secular and civil realms as well.

    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    Indeed. But didn’t you skip-over at least one intermediary step between toleration and veneration? Namely, that of acceptance? Note how quickly we went from toleration to full acceptance, and then from that to the veneration and celebration, now mandatory, that presently prevails.

    I refer here, of course, primarily to the transformation that attitudes toward alternative sexual identities, lifestyles and behaviors have taken over the past quarter-century or so. Note that this trend toward greater liberality and acceptance in matters sexual has not been even and consistent. There are a number of areas in which attitudes have trended in the very opposite direction, toward less tolerance; what many have and would call puritanism; and even downright hysteria.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Max Demian


    Note that this trend toward greater liberality and acceptance in matters sexual has not been even and consistent. There are a number of areas in which attitudes have trended in the very opposite direction, toward less tolerance; what many have and would call puritanism; and even downright hysteria.
     
    Don't fret Max.

    The USNS Harvey Milk is "oiling" the ocean blue daily.

    It's only a matter of time before the USNS Chickenhawk will be cruising the world's ports nightly.

  842. Are anime and video games Japan’s secret revenge for being defeated in WW2, just as the Great Migration can be considered the South’s secret revenge for being defeated in the Civil War?

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    There's no revenge when it creates an entire hikikomori population that imagine themselves copulating with semi-realistic women on paper and screens, instead of having real partners. A worst occupation than the physical one.

    Dixiedom turns into the Sunbelt after the Great Migration. Japan will stagnate for the rest of the century.

    Replies: @songbird

  843. @Thulean Friend
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks for a thoughtful comment.


    The thrust of his argument seems to be that the supreme primacy of family loyalty in the clan system is too socially disruptive through the perpetuation of blood feuds and similar constant infighting. The hyper-individualism of the atomistic family type is equally destructive to long term societal cohesion.

    Only a properly moderated domestic type family has the proper mix of internal and external strength and cohesion moderated by a certain amount of respect for larger societal structures. He argues that Christianity played a pivotal role as a moderating influence on both the degenerate Roman family type and the overly clannish Germanic type, to birth the happy medium which allowed the flowering of European culture.

    Part of this was the Churches’ insistence that marriage was a sacred and permanent bond, not a contract to be broken by either the individual or the clan structure. This is a seemingly impossible dynamic to recreate in a secular society.
     

    Divorce should be discouraged but not forbidden. In my extended family, I have several examples of very long-lasting marriages (still ongoing!) and what I have noticed is that almost all of them have survived because the couples learned to live somewhat separately. The couples still live under one roof but have their separate rooms where they sleep. In one case, my aunt even "sent" her husband away to work in another city while he was allowed to visit on the weekends to check in on his kids. Now they live together again, as they are helping with their grandkids.

    I think if low divorce rates are to be maintained, this kind of flexibility will be required as even couples which fit very well can't be expected to be as close as they were the initial years.

    There's also the non-trivial fact that men tend to have higher sex drives and many marriages "dry up" after some years. Prostitution is viewed negatively, but I don't see any other way out than to be pragmatic on this issue, unless you want to be more permissible on divorce. If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews). Men's urges are what they are and this what I meant when I wrote to German_reader earlier that religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people's needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.

    Personally, I’ve had enough experience to strongly believe in the spiritual plane and God, so I think that religion has a definite intrinsic worth and meaning. I also agree with you that it has a great deal of utility in a strictly social sense.
     

    I think a personal challenge for me is that I am quite content with my life, warts and all. So the ballast of stability that religion would provide me is limited.

    My advocacy is based on what I see around me, at the social level. People are not feeling well. I have liberal instincts and would not want to see women's rights desecrated in the name of spirituality, but at the same time I can't see how either men or women are happy with casual dating. I know lots of people who rode that carousel and feel lousy now. Hell, even former Sex and the City stars are now admitting that they miss having children.

    Family formation is very important and only religion seem to have a strong impact on people. It's impossible to have a sane discussion with liberal and left-leaning people on these issues due to rampant secularism. Some of their concerns are valid, however, as they pertain to the limitation of individual rights. If someone wants to lead a child-free life they should be allowed to do so, but I don't think it's a healthy rolemodel for society. I also don't think we shouldn't be judgemental, since toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Max Demian, @Barbarossa

    Even in the era of the tightest Church control of marriage, there were still ways, though tightly constrained, to dissolve toxic marriages.

    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.

    In the same vein as your own examples from extended family, my parents are in many ways very incompatible people who have certainly grown to have somewhat separate lives. They never got divorced and never will, a fact which I am deeply grateful for. When I think back to my own tumultous early years of marriage, I don’t think it would have been likely to work if not for the idealism I had, much of which came from a non-divorced upbringing. So, my parents’ terribly imperfect, yet intact, marriage had a pro-social outcome for me, which in turn provides that for my kids.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said “Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution.” So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.

    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.

    This can’t be said enough, as it gets turned on it’s head too often in our modern world. Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It’s actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    • Replies: @AP
    @Barbarossa


    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said “Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution.” So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.
     
    Prostitution was rather openly tolerated in medieval Europe. In England the medieval red light district was on Gropecunt Lane (many towns had this):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane

    "Gropecunt Lan is a street found in English towns and cities during the Middle Ages, believed to be a reference to the prostitution centred on those areas; it was normal practice for a medieval street name to reflect the street's function or the economic activity taking place within it. Gropecunt, the earliest known use of which is in about 1230, appears to have been derived as a compound of the words grope and cunt. Streets with that name were often in the busiest parts of medieval towns and cities, and at least one appears to have been an important thoroughfare."

    Non-traditional heretical Puritanism put an end to this practice (though the introduction of syphilis also prompted Catholic authorities to crack down, their efforts were not as fanatical).

    The traditional Christian, healthy approach, is to keep this sort of thing in its place, to tolerate it without celebrating or encouraging it.

    Replies: @sher singh

    , @Thulean Friend
    @Barbarossa


    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.
     
    I agree completely. I think a lot of people make the miscalculation that they would be better off on their own, because they are propagandised in an early age to believe that. It's only in later age that they realise they were sold a [expletive].

    My view is that society should take a moderately paternalistic approach by essentially nudging them in the right direction when they are young and not bother waiting for them to "find themselves" as many come to the right conclusions, but only after too much time has passed. So in a sense, an enforced self-help approach that helps them in the long run.

    A small minority of people genuinely want to live a deracinated, alienated life on their own. I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to. My objection is that we shouldn't model the expectations of the majority on the basis of a tiny fringe, since the outcomes have clearly been unhealthy.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said “Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution.” So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.
     
    I think sex workers are demonised enough, and I would be in favour of legalising Sweden's fairly restrictive laws while also cracking down hard on pimps and human smugglers. I've never been to a sex worker, but I would never judge someone negatively for going unless they knew that the sex worker was in a vulnerable or exploited state.

    I've also read accounts of sex workers, which is always helpful since I find so many people have strong views on this subject without actually inquiring what the workers themselves think about all of this. For example, a sex worker known as Aella girl wrote a very long piece on her work and even included advice for people who would want to enter her field.

    https://knowingless.com/2021/10/19/becoming-a-whorelord-the-overly-analytical-guide-to-escorting/

    Reading her article, it is hard to come away with the impression that she was oppressed or didn't know what she was getting into. Women (and men) like her will always be a small minority, but that doesn't mean that they ought to be trampled on or dismissed as degraded. I think that would be mistake. (Simultaneously, her lifestyle shouldn't be glamorised nor should we ignore that she is probably not a representative for her peer group).

    Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It’s actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!
     
    For reasons that escape me, Western society has become obsessed promoting fringe lifestyles while demonising the majority. There's nothing inherently wrong with these fringes, and I don't wish their marginalisation, but they ought not be the basis upon which we build broad social frameworks on.
    , @Pericles
    @Barbarossa



    Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It’s actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

     

    Remains to be seen, I'd say.

    Thinking back, before homosexuals became the most awesome thing ever, they used to complain online about 'rolling gays', that is them getting beaten up. This seemed terribly unfair to the naive me at the time, but now it seems far more likely that these pillars of society got caught with their disgusting habits in a public convenience, in the bushes of a public park, at the university library, etc. So the bullying chads were really being prosocial in showing the perverts the error of their ways.

    (Note that part of their 'getting off' is in transgressing social norms. As expected from this observation, we have seen more and more explicit behavior over the years, and can furthermore expect things to get worse.)
  844. @Mikel
    @AP


    it was fun to see the waiter’s reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish.
     
    Yes, I know. I am not blond but I had my own moments of fun in Chile whenever people took me for a "gringo" and started to speak in English (or more commonly Spanglish) to me.

    Speaking of blonde Ukrainians, last summer I watched a Sweden-Ukraine soccer match and at the beginning I wasn't sure which team was which, the players looked quite similar physically. I actually think I realized who the Swedes were when I saw a black player, that had to be a Swede.

    Sometime in the 70s, in times of greater freedom of expression, the economics Nobel Prize winner Simon Kuznets said that there are 4 kinds of countries in the world: the developed ones, the undeveloped ones, Japan and Argentina. Meaning that Japan wasn't supposed to be rich, being an oriental country, but was. And Argentina was supposed to be rich, being white, but wasn't.

    Now things have changed and we don't see so much of extraordinary in the cases of Japan and Argentina. Perhaps the new economic mystery is Ukraine. Why is it so poor? The only time I visited Kiev, in the 90s, I did get the impression that it was poorer than its neighbors, including Russia, and people in Kiev did seem perhaps to be more southern looking than in Poland, where I was traveling from. But later on I have met quite a few Ukrainian expatriates in Chile, Argentina, and recently in the US and these are generally not the kind of people that one associates with dysfunctional countries.

    I don't have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?

    I hope I am not invoking Hacks' Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country. The whole world has entered a new cold war era, much more senseless than the previous one, after the 2014 events in Ukraine so I think that it is objectively interesting to understand this country better.

    BTW, I have been more sympathetic than not to the Russian side in the Ukrainian conflict but I have the feeling that Putin is planning to do something that I won't like. Russian moves tend to be unpredictable and crude.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @AP, @Mr. Hack

    economic mystery is Ukraine.

    Ukraine is the same as all postsoviet countries, except for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania which seem to have resolved many of the postsoviet problems (but they are in the EU).* And Ukraine also has some additional problems of lack of oil/gas, political instability, conflict with neighbors.

    I don’t think there is so much mystery about these problems, and neither is there seeming so much mystery (at least in naming of many problems) for Argentina/Mexico/Brazil.

    Economic, social and political problems of the postsoviet sphere are explained even by American media (which cannot basic things about the local culture otherwise) as CNBC, Bloomberg, CNN, in basic textbooks of economic history, beginners’ books of political science. Most of the world knows about these problems, although knowing the problems unfortunately doesn’t necessarily make it easier to solve.

    * I’m emotionally sympathetic to so many beautiful things in the Soviet Union and Russian Empire, but this multigenerational mess afterwards is one of the areas where you cannot defend, and will give a point to AP’s point of view about this region – when there is such mess, then you should be forced to question the wisdom of events which preceded it even where they were sources of pride.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    Thanks for your thoughts on Ukraine. Perhaps you are right that Ukraine is just similar to Russia without its vast natural resources. However, it is striking to see Ukraine ranking closer to countries far away of its cultural sphere than to its neighbors in economic matters. Last time I checked, Russia's per capita GDP was about 3 times larger.



    when there is such mess, then you should be forced to question the wisdom of events which preceded it even where they were sources of pride
     
    I guess somebody was going to try the Marxist ideas sooner or later and it just happened to be Russia. We wouldn't know how a socialist economy with no private capital works in practice if you guys hadn't tried it.

    Perhaps you are unaware of how influential the USSR was in the world. Lots of people in Western countries looked at the Soviet and Eastern European examples with admiration. Many believed that it was a matter of time until communism took over the entire world, including some relatives of mine. I remember them discussing at family gatherings if the Soviet or the Yugoslav system was better. My father, a businessman who would lose his factory if any of them was implemented, dismissed their ideas but they were certainly part of the public discourse. A cousin of mine and her husband, both doctors, visited East Germany and came back with a positive impression... barely a year before the Berlin Wall fell down.

    Shortly after the Iron Curtain fell I traveled to Eastern Europe. I was very curious to finally find out what these countries were like in real life. I spent most of the time in Poland but visited some neighboring countries too.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  845. @Mr. Hack
    @Barbarossa

    I'm curious to know what the funeral for a favorite cow might look like, after the well deserved and long retirement? (I'm just an ignorant city boy, so cut me some slack).

    A Ukrainian lady that I know to this day cannot eat beef because when she was a girl she was heavily involved with the care of cows. Pigs and chickens were for eating, cows were for milking.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    That’s a valid question. I would actually have no qualms about butchering a milk cow that had died of natural causes and using the meat. Even if not for human consumption, I would use it for my dogs. I don’t see any point in wasting it.

    That brings up a point for Sher Singh which I would be genuinely interested in him answering. There seems from his remarks to be a moral scale on cattle slaughter, with the killing of a milk cow being worst, while the fate of bulls being more ambiguous. How is an animal who dies naturally treated? Is utilizing the meat and hide ever tolerated? Are bulls sometimes allowed to be killed and under what circumstances?

  846. Don’t know why, but I think history thots are the funniest.

  847. @AP
    @Dmitry


    If you look at sales pages, there are a lot of $2-$4 million apartments you can buy in the road, although his apartment was looking modest, and you said it is only renting.
     
    It depends on the size. And rents can be very low. In Moscow there are a lot of people who can afford to pay $6000 a month or more for a flat that will have underground parking, a gym, a pool, etc., and a lot of people who can afford to pay $1000-$1500 a month. It is very difficult to find tenants if you have a place that is worth $3000-$4000 a month (in the center, excellent condition, but no underground parking or fitness center). The latter places were those where Soviet-era elites lived - they didn't have such amenities when the USSR existed.

    So often, places that theoretically should get $3000 or $4000 per month get rented for much less because the owner doesn't want to wait for a year to get a tenant, that is better than them not being rented at all.

    (at least, this was the situation a few years ago, I haven't discussed it lately)

    If recall also ancestors’ castle in Belarus, that was expropriated by his family, and recently renovated by the oligarch protege of Lukashenko.
     


    My ancestor left Minsk for Galicia in the mid 18th century, I don't that that palace was built yet (though the land belonged to the family much earlier), it must have been built by some cousins. There are probably 100s if not 1000s of people with more right to inherit that place than me. But Lukashenko's cronies aren't among that number.

    I’d be more curious about AP’s multinational property holdings, with perhaps (if judging theoretical possibilities) up to $4 million apartments (apartment? apartments?) presumably unused in central Moscow.
     
    I don't own anything, my wife and her family do. After the 2014 events the prices went down. It is also not so easy to sell expensive places - people who can afford them, often have the connections to take them if you are not careful (a reason why it is better to rent out expensive places to foreign businesspeople rather than local Russians, and never ever to Caucasians). Even with connections of one's own, one must be careful. So to a certain extent the property value is theoretical.

    We spent a couple of summers in the 2000s in the flat in the center when it was empty (it was small and used by the in-laws to spend the night if one of them went to the theater in downtown); my wife's sibling lives there now but when we visit Moscow, that family moves to their country house in a pine forest outside the city so my family can enjoy central Moscow to ourselves.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    2014 events the prices went down. It is also not so easy to sell expensive

    Yes entry and exit point is important. If your wife has purchased before 2014, then the devaluation means the money is at least emotionally locked in Russia. I mean emotionally, because it would be emotionally difficult to ignore the losses in converting from the devalued currency to another currency.

    At least, it is a very safe store of value in the local context. That’s an apartment in central Moscow will always be desired and dreamed about by most of the country. You can say it’s the safest property in Russia from the investment point of view, and one of the best ones in terms of its use value (perhaps not for renting as you said, but using it to live in central Moscow is not too bad as an alternative).

    This devaluation in Russia was such a strange kind of financial crisis, because it had never initially felt like an financial crisis with instant upheaval. But it was in the end the erosion of value of Russian assets and wealth as much as the denomination says.

    For me (with only a superficial, journalistic understanding of financial realities), it was several years before this realization that there had been a significant loss of wealth.

    At this time of devaluation, I didn’t expect it as being a permanent devaluation. In the causal media there wasn’t explanation of its permanence for ordinary people. Even in “Kommersant”, “Vedomosti” (I mean relatively educated media), I don’t remember articles saying “sorry this devaluation is permanent. Sorry your family’s properties and assets have instantly lost a significant proportion of value. Don’t expect a return to their values of before. Sorry if you didn’t move your assets in Switzerland before this, you have lost a lot of money”.

    when we visit Moscow, that family moves to their country house in a pine forest outside the city so my family can enjoy central Moscow

    It sounds like a wonderful luxury. Even compared to renting, it’s something feeling different when your family really owns a place in the city.

  848. @German_reader
    @Max Demian


    Presumably you meant “restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already” or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it?
     
    Yes, that's true, I should have written "banned" or something similar (and imo there's no chance of that in Western Europe). You're right that abortion is much more regulated (and rightly so) in European countries than in most US states, though there are also of course attempts at eroding existing rules (a symbolic example: one of the first measures of Germany's new government will probably be making advertising for abortion legal).

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Another example of what ThuleanFriend mentioned in reference to the difference between tolerating and celebrating things.
    In the past few years I have seen a push to “celebrate” women’s “abortion stories”. That is grotesque in the extreme, since the miraculous ability of women to bring forth life should be celebrated in any sane society.

    I’m curious for examples of how abortion is more regulated in Western European counties than in America. It’s not something I know much about (other than the American side of the equation.)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Barbarossa


    I’m curious for examples of how abortion is more regulated in Western European counties than in America.
     
    I think the time period during which abortion is legal is generally shorter; in Germany it's during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Of course that might not make that much of a difference in practice (apparently most abortions in the US also take place during the first three months).
    In Germany it's also mandatory that women who want an abortion have a talk with an officially appointed counsellor (and at least according to the letter of the law the goal of that counselling talk is the protection of unborn life, and women are to be encouraged to continue their pregnancy). At least three days have to pass between that talk and an abortion, so that there's enough time for second thoughts and the decision isn't rushed.
    I don't know how the system works in reality. I suppose not that great, since there were almost 100 000 abortions in Germany last year.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  849. @German_reader
    @Matra

    iirc Trump's ambassador Mosbacher was also quite strident about the proposed law against this tv channel (also said Poland was "on the wrong side of history" on LGBT issues), so from the US side there is bipartisan consensus on this issue (just in case our resident defender of "Christian populism" wants to blame it only on Biden's admin).

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Where is A123 anyhow?

    Somebody turn on the “Let’s Go Brandon” signal and beam it into the starry night above the bustling metropolis of UNZ!

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Barbarossa

    Maybe he's been kidnapped on the orders of Merkel and IslamoSoros, and is now being brainwashed into adopting Islamo-German values instead of Judeo-Christian ones.
    Not that I hope for anything of the sort, his comments are pretty unique after all.

    Replies: @A123

    , @iffen
    @Barbarossa

    They are probably off celebrating some Jewish holiday week.

  850. German_reader says:
    @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    Another example of what ThuleanFriend mentioned in reference to the difference between tolerating and celebrating things.
    In the past few years I have seen a push to "celebrate" women's "abortion stories". That is grotesque in the extreme, since the miraculous ability of women to bring forth life should be celebrated in any sane society.

    I'm curious for examples of how abortion is more regulated in Western European counties than in America. It's not something I know much about (other than the American side of the equation.)

    Replies: @German_reader

    I’m curious for examples of how abortion is more regulated in Western European counties than in America.

    I think the time period during which abortion is legal is generally shorter; in Germany it’s during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Of course that might not make that much of a difference in practice (apparently most abortions in the US also take place during the first three months).
    In Germany it’s also mandatory that women who want an abortion have a talk with an officially appointed counsellor (and at least according to the letter of the law the goal of that counselling talk is the protection of unborn life, and women are to be encouraged to continue their pregnancy). At least three days have to pass between that talk and an abortion, so that there’s enough time for second thoughts and the decision isn’t rushed.
    I don’t know how the system works in reality. I suppose not that great, since there were almost 100 000 abortions in Germany last year.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    That is interesting. Often time one assumes Europe to be broadly more liberal than the US, but that is far from monolithic, such as the negative reaction from the French political establishment to tweaking the language for gender neutral pronouns.

    As you said, it probably doesn't always work out as the letter of the law intends. However, Germany's abortion rate is nearly a third of the US's.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/abortion-rates-by-country

    Russia is by far the highest with an abortion rate around 6 times that of Germany. Ouch.

  851. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    Where is A123 anyhow?

    Somebody turn on the "Let's Go Brandon" signal and beam it into the starry night above the bustling metropolis of UNZ!

    Replies: @German_reader, @iffen

    Maybe he’s been kidnapped on the orders of Merkel and IslamoSoros, and is now being brainwashed into adopting Islamo-German values instead of Judeo-Christian ones.
    Not that I hope for anything of the sort, his comments are pretty unique after all.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @German_reader

    The answer is pretty simple. As a Christian I have had many family commitments. Things that should have occurred last Christmas didn't. So, there a number of family items need 24 months of upkeep instead of the usual 12. Fulfilling, but time consuming and stressful.
    ____

    As to continuing to post here... I am undecided.

    Politics is inherently somewhat negative:
    -- Most individual wins are at best partial as they require compromise.
    -- Defeating Not-The-President Biden's crazy is necessary, but it doesn't enact MAGA policy.
    -- Wins happen in some states like Florida and Texas, but they cannot fix national problems.
    -- Trench work to prepare for the midterms looks very positive at this point. Alas, there will not be any policy gains for another year, with the possibly exception of some Judicial wins.

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    The most rational commenters who added the new & interesting content are gradually departing. Think of it in HBD terms. As the best stock outflows, the remaining population is in decline. Presenting information to acolytes of emotional "anti-factual" dogma is futile.

    Poking the TROLLS is mildly amusing, but it also adds to the negativity. Upon reflection, I would like to avoid making things worse. I will do my best to stop unnecessarily prodding you, Iffen, and Barbarossa. If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.
    _____

    As to the merits of where we stand on the issues...

    The European WEF Elites in Davos have been poisoning Europe with excessive migration for decades. Merkel amped up that problem and sent it to America.

    The Fascist Storm Troopers of Antifa started in Europe (1)


    The Antifa movement has origins in several European countries in the early 20th century, particularly Germany and Italy, when fascism was a real and urgent concern. In Germany, it began during the rise of Hitler and it was far from perfect in its resistance to the rise of Nazism. For one, the German communist party and the German social democratic party never came to an agreement in their attempts to fight back. In Italy, a similar movement began as a response to Benito Mussolini's regime.

    There are differing interpretations of how the name came about: BBC News, for example, reports that it is short for "anti-fascist." In Germany, one attempt to unite the left during that time period was called Antifascischistsche Aktion. From it, others believe the name "Antifa" was born.
     
    It is not purely an one way street. Some things have travelled from the U.S. to Europe. However, "Western Europe" has had less Christianity and more Migration for decades. European politicians lead SJW Globalism. You do not have to look further than Scholz to see the bizarre direction that Germany is trying to take Europe (and the world including the U.S.). There is nothing "American" or "U.S. led" about the new German regime.
    ___

    There should be some good Bible quotes (from Romans?) about tending to one's own problems. If your house is in order that gives you the resources and stability to successfully help others.

    The only people who can help Germany are the Germans. The only people who can help Europe are the Europeans. The EU needs to become less powerful or dissolve to make way for something more appropriate. Yes. The FRB has mishandled(∆∆) its dollar responsibilities. However, German Banking Elites in Frankfurt drove the ECB to "permanent negative interest rates". Temporary "negative interest rates" were tried in Japan and worked poorly. Yet Brussels and German Elites rolled them out anyway.
    ___

    The U.S. has its own disastrous internal issues. Policies for MAGA Reindustrialization are inherently "positive" efforts about recovering jobs and capabilities that have been diminished or lost. However, the U.S. system like the EU system needs structural changes:

    -- Destructive indoctrination has to be routed from schools, universities and the media.
    -- MegaCorporations, especially international financial firms, need to be reigned in. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
    -- Citizens who work need to reap the fruits of their labour. A full retrenchment to Marxism is not in the cards, but the Balance of Power has to be remedied.
    -- There are a number of other things that also need to be strengthened, as protections in Bill of the Rights have been steamrolled, especially the 10th.

    Can the current Constitution can be fixed to deliver these "must have" changes?

    I am not so sure. It has been badly damaged and dragged away from its historical context. Add to that outpacing by technology. For example, travelling from London to Virginia in the late 1700's took 6 weeks and unfortunate winds could extend that for more than a month. Today, flight time London to DC is about 8 hours and electronic communication is even faster. And, that is only one example of a concept that did not exist when the Constitution was written.

    Realistically, the current document rests on predicates & assumptions that have radically changed, so the necessary foundation is not solid. America probably needs a full Constitutional Convention to provide a sound replacement.
    __________________________

    I am short on editing time, so apologies in advance if this is a bit of a structural ramble. It will also have more than it's fair share of typos and grammar issues. I have to head out for my next family event in a few minutes.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.bustle.com/p/where-did-antifa-come-from-the-movements-origins-go-back-to-germany-76340

    (∆∆) Yes. The phrase "FRB mishandling" is a potentially eye opening understatement. However, I am trying to avoid tidal waves of negativity. Anything more accurate is unlikely to be "positive".

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack, @iffen, @Barbarossa

  852. Going to order blade from Khukhri house in Kathmandu, just waiting for mil discount code.

    They do custom work and have international depots to save on shipping and tax.

    There’s also no 3000rs surcharge on weapons which sadly in the Modi era includes Kirpans.

    Just a heads up to knife aficionados, their mainstay is obviously Khukhri but I’m replacing my Kabar bowie with this: https://www.thekhukurihouse.com/war-machine

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  853. @German_reader
    @Yellowface Anon

    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @Svidomyatheart, @Max Demian

    I hope China puts gamers in camps (especially fat ones), it would be funny to see Western governments protesting against gamer genocide.

    First they came for the gamers…

    Just saw at New York Times:
    A New Generation Stacks Up Championships in an Old Game: Tetris

    The best player in the world over the last two years is a 14-year-old boy from Fort Worth. One of his main challengers? His 16-year-old brother.

    Michael Artiaga, right, the world Tetris champion in 2020 and 2021, with his brother Andy at an arcade in Fort Worth, Texas. [Photo credits:] Justin Clemons/Guardian/eyevine/Redux

  854. @Max Demian
    @German_reader


    (the scale of yearly abortions in Western Europe certainly surpasses anything that was expected when abortion was legalized
     
    Isn't it, though, lower than the abortion rate in the US?

    imo it’s very questionable that it [abortion] could ever be legally restricted in Western Europe to any meaningful degree,
     
    Presumably you meant "restricted to any meaningful degree beyond that which it is already" or perhaps banned or outlawed. While obviously fully legal and quite accessible, abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction, has it? In fact, I distinctly recall reading, sometime within the past decade, an Op-Ed in the New York Times that specifically cited France (if memory serves) as an example of a country with greater restrictions on abortion than the US (which the author argued were too lax).

    You make many cogent points in this, as well as many of the other comments of yours in this thread.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Reg Cæsar

    abortion in W European countries has never been without restriction

    Is any Eurpoean country’s law laxer than ours? Canada apparently has no regulation at all. The court threw the old law out, and it was never replaced.

    Wisconsin is in an interesting position. The old, strict statute is still on the books, and should Roe be overturned, it would be the default. With a Republican legislature and a Democratic governor. Stock up on green-and-gold popcorn.

    • Thanks: Max Demian
  855. @Mikel
    @AP


    it was fun to see the waiter’s reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish.
     
    Yes, I know. I am not blond but I had my own moments of fun in Chile whenever people took me for a "gringo" and started to speak in English (or more commonly Spanglish) to me.

    Speaking of blonde Ukrainians, last summer I watched a Sweden-Ukraine soccer match and at the beginning I wasn't sure which team was which, the players looked quite similar physically. I actually think I realized who the Swedes were when I saw a black player, that had to be a Swede.

    Sometime in the 70s, in times of greater freedom of expression, the economics Nobel Prize winner Simon Kuznets said that there are 4 kinds of countries in the world: the developed ones, the undeveloped ones, Japan and Argentina. Meaning that Japan wasn't supposed to be rich, being an oriental country, but was. And Argentina was supposed to be rich, being white, but wasn't.

    Now things have changed and we don't see so much of extraordinary in the cases of Japan and Argentina. Perhaps the new economic mystery is Ukraine. Why is it so poor? The only time I visited Kiev, in the 90s, I did get the impression that it was poorer than its neighbors, including Russia, and people in Kiev did seem perhaps to be more southern looking than in Poland, where I was traveling from. But later on I have met quite a few Ukrainian expatriates in Chile, Argentina, and recently in the US and these are generally not the kind of people that one associates with dysfunctional countries.

    I don't have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?

    I hope I am not invoking Hacks' Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country. The whole world has entered a new cold war era, much more senseless than the previous one, after the 2014 events in Ukraine so I think that it is objectively interesting to understand this country better.

    BTW, I have been more sympathetic than not to the Russian side in the Ukrainian conflict but I have the feeling that Putin is planning to do something that I won't like. Russian moves tend to be unpredictable and crude.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @AP, @Mr. Hack

    I don’t have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?

    Unlike in other countries, Ukraine inherited a post-colonial situation: outside Galicia, all of its elites were Soviet compradors, and worse – those who were too incompetent to make it to Moscow so they were left behind in provincial Ukraine. Unlike the Communist-era elites of places like Poland, many of whom who were crypto-nationalists and Polish patriots at heart, the elites in Ukraine had little or no attachment to Ukraine and cynically used independence as way of stealing as much as possible without someone in Moscow looking over their shoulder (these same elites also found a way to avoid joining the EU with its scrutiny). Because pretty much all of the elites were like this, the Ukrainian people had no one else to choose from who had any experience running a government or business. A bloody revolution involving mass killings of the Soviet-era elites might have solved this, but this would have been terrible in its own way. Until Zelensky they didn’t want to take chance with someone with no governing or business experience. So the Ukrainian people were stuck.

    Galicia is an exception (its the only region where the main political parties are parties with political programs such as Svoboda or Samopomich, rather than oligarch projects) but it is only 10% of the country by population, plus the real money being made in Ukraine was in steel and coal in the East. So by virtue of its passionate nationalism Galicia could steer the rest of the country culturally but could not attain power economically or politically – this power was firmly in the hands of the eastern oligarchs. If Galicia had become independent in 1991 it would have become another prosperous Visegrad country, similar to its neighbors Poland and Slovakia. But it would never do this because nationalism is very strong there.

    • Thanks: Mikel
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    inherited a post-colonial situation:

     

    While these details about nationalism might be interesting, it's not why the economy and politics is undeveloped.

    Ukraine's economic and political situation inherited the same as other postsoviet countries. Only Ukraine doesn't have oil and gas (unlike Russia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan), or EU guidance and funding (unlike Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania).

    Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania have solved many of the problems of postsoviet countries, but almost all other the postsoviet has the same problems - dictatorships pretending to be democracy, politicians that expropriate, power structure built on alliance of clans, lack of free media, lack of transparency (i.e. faked official data and statistics), and regular financial crisis.

    You need a high risk tolerance to invest in these countries (whereas you don't nowadays to invest in Estonia), and new industries to replace the old are slow developing (unlike e.g. Estonia). For countries with rents from natural resources, the economy becomes dependent on the commodity cycle (although this is also true of some developed countries like Australia). Whereas for countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Armenia, Georgia there is less option for this (Armenia at least has gold mines), and growth industries might be IT consulting, tourism, remittances.

  856. @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend

    Even in the era of the tightest Church control of marriage, there were still ways, though tightly constrained, to dissolve toxic marriages.

    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.

    In the same vein as your own examples from extended family, my parents are in many ways very incompatible people who have certainly grown to have somewhat separate lives. They never got divorced and never will, a fact which I am deeply grateful for. When I think back to my own tumultous early years of marriage, I don't think it would have been likely to work if not for the idealism I had, much of which came from a non-divorced upbringing. So, my parents' terribly imperfect, yet intact, marriage had a pro-social outcome for me, which in turn provides that for my kids.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said "Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution." So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.


    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.
     
    This can't be said enough, as it gets turned on it's head too often in our modern world. Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It's actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    Replies: @AP, @Thulean Friend, @Pericles

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said “Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution.” So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Prostitution was rather openly tolerated in medieval Europe. In England the medieval red light district was on Gropecunt Lane (many towns had this):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane

    “Gropecunt Lan is a street found in English towns and cities during the Middle Ages, believed to be a reference to the prostitution centred on those areas; it was normal practice for a medieval street name to reflect the street’s function or the economic activity taking place within it. Gropecunt, the earliest known use of which is in about 1230, appears to have been derived as a compound of the words grope and cunt. Streets with that name were often in the busiest parts of medieval towns and cities, and at least one appears to have been an important thoroughfare.”

    Non-traditional heretical Puritanism put an end to this practice (though the introduction of syphilis also prompted Catholic authorities to crack down, their efforts were not as fanatical).

    The traditional Christian, healthy approach, is to keep this sort of thing in its place, to tolerate it without celebrating or encouraging it.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @AP

    So basically what you're saying is coming to the New World was a mistake, since syphillis.
    If you disagree with this, you're gay.

    Replies: @iffen

  857. @AP
    @Barbarossa


    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said “Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution.” So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.
     
    Prostitution was rather openly tolerated in medieval Europe. In England the medieval red light district was on Gropecunt Lane (many towns had this):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane

    "Gropecunt Lan is a street found in English towns and cities during the Middle Ages, believed to be a reference to the prostitution centred on those areas; it was normal practice for a medieval street name to reflect the street's function or the economic activity taking place within it. Gropecunt, the earliest known use of which is in about 1230, appears to have been derived as a compound of the words grope and cunt. Streets with that name were often in the busiest parts of medieval towns and cities, and at least one appears to have been an important thoroughfare."

    Non-traditional heretical Puritanism put an end to this practice (though the introduction of syphilis also prompted Catholic authorities to crack down, their efforts were not as fanatical).

    The traditional Christian, healthy approach, is to keep this sort of thing in its place, to tolerate it without celebrating or encouraging it.

    Replies: @sher singh

    So basically what you’re saying is coming to the New World was a mistake, since syphillis.
    If you disagree with this, you’re gay.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @sher singh

    According to the tenets of your religion, is it not dishonorable to use a crossbow instead of a blade?

    Replies: @sher singh

  858. @AP
    @Dmitry


    “Inflation shocks are spreading pain around the world, but nowhere is it as bad as Latin America. Price surges are busting through policy makers’ targets in all the region’s major economies, with annual inflation prints this month (November 2021) of 6% in Chile, 6.2% in Mexico, 10.7% in Brazil and a whopping 52% in Argentina. ”
     
    Yes, but this is a recent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina has a pattern of economic crises followed by growth or stagnation, it is not an even line for Argentina. For this reason, despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico. It has plunged down to Mexico's level, but will likely return to a higher level. Look at the dramatic swings in Argentina compared to the steady growth in Mexico and DR:

    https://i.imgur.com/YAUaD61.png

    Under such circumstances, even during the dips the country would not feel as poor as Mexico. Yes, temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level, and personal items (such as cars or furniture purchased before the economy plunged) of a wealthier country, at least for several years until the economy returns to its baseline.

    It's interesting to compare Argentina with Russia, in constant per capita 2015 US dollars:

    https://i.imgur.com/xKlGDOs.png

    The Russian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years (1992-2004, with nadir in 1998), enough time for the country to really degrade (plus the decline was steeper than in Argentina's crises). In contrast - Argentina had significant dips from 1988-1992 and from 2001-2004, a one year dip in 2009, and this plunge in 2020.

    So as a medical worker writing a case report, you might feel this patient has more advanced problems of decline.

     

    This patient is prone to periodic acute episodes of incapacitation followed by recovery to an overall greater state of health..

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Shortsword

    It’s interesting to compare Argentina with Russia, in constant per capita 2015 US dollars:

    It’s really not. If 2013 was chosen instead you would have Russia’s graph being far above Argentina’s. But the shape of both graphs would still look identical. That’s because the shape of the graphs only depends on growth and not nominal gdp. But the starting point is chosen in nominal numbers. This more or less means that the graphs are pushed down or up depending on the chosen starting year.

    Nominal gdp in constant prices just isn’t very useful for comparing different countries.

  859. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    , genetics and culture are difficult to disentangle
     
    From the 19th century, Estonians were the most high literacy nationality (with the lowest fertility rates) in the Russian Empire.

    And if we look today, Estonians receive the most VC funds per capita in Europe.

    This might indicate some more entrepreneurial or even education ability in the Estonian population relative to other nationalities, which continues regardless of historical vicissitudes.

    https://i.imgur.com/DNEb478.jpg


    So is there some average genetic advantage of Estonians? Are they genetically destined to be more academic on average than us? Cultural advantage? Historical path dependence in their educational prioritization?

    These questions might be speculated, but they also must have some status like a black box, whether for historians or economists. Maybe Estonians are genetically disposed to study more, maybe not? Either way, their average higher education skills would not be too useful for VC funds, if the politicians started to expropriate companies.

    There are also more obvious things in Estonia of the last thirty years, which seemed more open boxes. The fact they follow the best advice for economic reform according to international guidelines, published by economists. The fact they have more equal balance of power, fiscal limits, political stability, property rights, safe investment climate, lack of dictators.

    There are also countries where the rulers can prioritize other things like control, after they attain to the medium development level.

    Whereas Estonia has installed a different form of government, which might therefore simply prioritize more business interest, over the control of the population.

    It's these kind of things which are also not too good in Latin America, and that's what seems so striking and region-wide (existing across different ethnic origin populations) with their recent history.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    And if we look today, Estonians receive the most VC funds per capita in Europe.

    Estonia is a very popular location for setting up a remote IT firm and they even hand out “e-citizenships” to foreign entrepreneurs, so a large fraction of that VC funding is likely going to outsiders who merely use it as a taxation base (much like Ireland’s GDP is inflated due to American firms doing tax shenanigans).

    Nevertheless, even factoring this in, it’s certainly true that Estonia is very open to entrepreneurship, has very low levels of debt and has achieved high levels of prosperity after communism very quickly. Their tax code is minimalistic and clean and their bureaucratic efficiency is high. All of which to say that Estonia’s an impressive country, but using VC funds per capita might not be the best metric to use here, given the particularities of their circumstances.

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @Thulean Friend

    What has Lithuania done to exceed Estonia slightly in GDP per capita?

    Replies: @LatW

  860. @Dmitry
    @AP


    ussian nineties nightmare lasted 12 years
     
    This is the longer crisis in many ways even.

    If you look at oil revenue, even though oil production is climbing across the 1980s, the revenue is falling significantly.

    It's not until the 2000-s, that oil revenue can return to levels before 1980s crisis.

    This graph is showing oil revenue in billions of dollars. Almost 20 years for oil revenue to recover.
    https://i.imgur.com/dWRETao.png


    ecent phenomenon and will probably not continue. Argentina
     
    They are one of the more regularly vulnerable for hyperinflation countries.

    It's also an economy that can crash, when the rest of the world is economically booming. Look at the Argentinian economy of 1998-2002 from Wikipedia.

    "The economy shrank by 28 percent from 1998 to 2002. In terms of income, over 50 percent of Argentines lived below the official poverty line and 25 percent were indigent (their basic needs were unmet); seven out of ten Argentine children were poor at the depth of the crisis in 2002"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression


    , temporarily food may be as difficult to buy as in Mexico, people have to put off buying a new car, but they retain the infrastructure, development level,
     
    When there is high inflation, you want to buy as soon as possible. So you would want to convert the depreciating currency for real products.

    Argentinians are often suffering hyperinflation and one of their stereotypical behaviors is apparently to expend disproportionate parts of the income to buy consumer goods.


    country would not feel as poor as Mexico.
     
    These financial crisis can be very scary. Much of the population can lose their savings, or fall to poverty in a few weeks.

    It's true that the poverty is not as permanent as it might seem (although you really lose your savings), and there are rapid returns. But it feels like it can be permanent during the time of the crisis.

    If you look at how the situation was for 2003 Argentina.
    "Argentina's unemployment rate stands close to 25 percent and it will take years to rebuild an economy crushed by mismanagement and a mountain of debt. Nearly 60 percent of the nation's 36 million people are poor and 10 million live in extreme poverty, meaning they go hungry in a place that once considered itself the world's grainery." https://web.archive.org/web/20040518155809/http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/03/26/argentina.train.reut/


    despite the horrible crisis of 2019-2020 Argentina is still slightly better than Mexico.
     
    But which would be a safer investment zone? I'm not claiming to know anything, except from being frightened by the Argentinian finances, while not reading about the situation in Mexico yet.

    My impression from American media on YouTube, I believed that some Americans are comfortable to invest in Mexico. 400,000 people may have been killed in the Mexico drugs war since 2006, but for example some Americans still buy property there, and speak like they are confident they won't lose the money.

    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs-aRBsGbxc

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.

    Mexico is a plantation outpost of the US in a way that Argentina just is not. A very large share of US industrial firms have outsourced at least part of their production to Mexico. In other words, Mexico simply cannot be allowed to fail and if the country would face difficulties or instability that was threatening the integrity of the country then US elites would step in, whether Mexicans wanted to or not.

    Nothing similar exists with regards to Argentina, so their extravagant eccentricities can be tolerated since it isn’t a country of systemic importance. Even “far-left” AMLO has been surprisingly fiscally conservative in his spending. He has chosen GDP declines in order to prioritise macroeconomic stability. He doesn’t have much choice, he surely understands what will happen to him if he wants to go on a detour and indulge in his far-left supporters’ fantasies.

    Seen in this light, US investors have a rational expectation that nothing much will happen. The only real constraint would be crime and the relative stagnation of Mexican society. From what I’ve heard, crime in Mexico is very localised and it’s a highly unequal country, so if you know where to live, you could probably live quite well without fearing for random street violence.

    The woman in your video bought a house for \$160K. That is very cheap by Western standards but Mexican wages are also 6-8 times lower. So the real comparison would be a house worth ~\$1 million dollars in the West. For that money, you will live in a very good neighbourhood. Since she was an artist, she obviously didn’t have much money and she didn’t inherit wealth (otherwise she would have stayed in California, where she was for 25 years). From her point of view, it was a pragmatic economic decision to live comfortably in a country with relative political stability by sacrificing the dynamism of California for the sluggishness of Mexico.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Thulean Friend

    Well, Ms. Artista did state that she left a home in California, very similar in size and design, that she sold for $500,000, and that was in 2008 almost fourteen years ago. Today, just accounting for inflation alone, that home would probably be worth what, $750,000, maybe more? I believe that she stated that she now pays only $800/year in property taxes. I'm conservatively guessing that her old place would merit taxes in the 12k - 15k per year category.

    As far as leaving the "dynamism" of California behind, you forgot to figure in the vastly exploding number of homeless tent dwellers that are sprouting up all over the Western seaboard. Dmitry has done an admirable job of including video clips depicting such encampments within various cities in the West. I don't think that you're likely to find any tented communities living within San Miguel del Alluende, although I wouldn't be surprised to find some shanty towns way on the outskirts towards the countryside. She comes right out and states that she's living her dream in Mexico, that she couldn't dream of doing in California. Oh, and lest we forget, she has a second home in Mazatlán!

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Dmitry
    @Thulean Friend


    Mexico simply cannot be allowed to fail.. woman in your video bought a house for $160K.
     
    Yes she bought a very nice house, for not such a high price. Even if you said that USA will prevent Mexico from failing.

    Still it seems not such a good idea, as she is exposed to possibilities of smaller financial crisis, Mexican legal system.

    -


    CNBC Make It also reported an American woman who immigrated to Mexico, without investing there.

    She just has $1 million of index funds/stocks in the USA. She goes to Mexico with tourist visa and rents an apartment, giving her residency visa.

    This is how you would be sensible to live in middle income countries like Mexico. Your money is in the first world country, and you only rent an apartment in the country you live. This is just putting your toes in the dangerous country, while your wallet is in the developed country.

    The mistake is if you stored money into the country without high development, legal system and property rights.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SPEwzAXLs8

  861. @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend

    Even in the era of the tightest Church control of marriage, there were still ways, though tightly constrained, to dissolve toxic marriages.

    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.

    In the same vein as your own examples from extended family, my parents are in many ways very incompatible people who have certainly grown to have somewhat separate lives. They never got divorced and never will, a fact which I am deeply grateful for. When I think back to my own tumultous early years of marriage, I don't think it would have been likely to work if not for the idealism I had, much of which came from a non-divorced upbringing. So, my parents' terribly imperfect, yet intact, marriage had a pro-social outcome for me, which in turn provides that for my kids.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said "Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution." So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.


    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.
     
    This can't be said enough, as it gets turned on it's head too often in our modern world. Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It's actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    Replies: @AP, @Thulean Friend, @Pericles

    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.

    I agree completely. I think a lot of people make the miscalculation that they would be better off on their own, because they are propagandised in an early age to believe that. It’s only in later age that they realise they were sold a [expletive].

    My view is that society should take a moderately paternalistic approach by essentially nudging them in the right direction when they are young and not bother waiting for them to “find themselves” as many come to the right conclusions, but only after too much time has passed. So in a sense, an enforced self-help approach that helps them in the long run.

    A small minority of people genuinely want to live a deracinated, alienated life on their own. I don’t see why they shouldn’t be allowed to. My objection is that we shouldn’t model the expectations of the majority on the basis of a tiny fringe, since the outcomes have clearly been unhealthy.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said “Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution.” So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.

    I think sex workers are demonised enough, and I would be in favour of legalising Sweden’s fairly restrictive laws while also cracking down hard on pimps and human smugglers. I’ve never been to a sex worker, but I would never judge someone negatively for going unless they knew that the sex worker was in a vulnerable or exploited state.

    I’ve also read accounts of sex workers, which is always helpful since I find so many people have strong views on this subject without actually inquiring what the workers themselves think about all of this. For example, a sex worker known as Aella girl wrote a very long piece on her work and even included advice for people who would want to enter her field.

    https://knowingless.com/2021/10/19/becoming-a-whorelord-the-overly-analytical-guide-to-escorting/

    Reading her article, it is hard to come away with the impression that she was oppressed or didn’t know what she was getting into. Women (and men) like her will always be a small minority, but that doesn’t mean that they ought to be trampled on or dismissed as degraded. I think that would be mistake. (Simultaneously, her lifestyle shouldn’t be glamorised nor should we ignore that she is probably not a representative for her peer group).

    Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It’s actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    For reasons that escape me, Western society has become obsessed promoting fringe lifestyles while demonising the majority. There’s nothing inherently wrong with these fringes, and I don’t wish their marginalisation, but they ought not be the basis upon which we build broad social frameworks on.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
  862. @Mikel
    @AP


    it was fun to see the waiter’s reaction at a Mexican restaurant when these blond blue eyed ladies spoke to him in perfect Spanish.
     
    Yes, I know. I am not blond but I had my own moments of fun in Chile whenever people took me for a "gringo" and started to speak in English (or more commonly Spanglish) to me.

    Speaking of blonde Ukrainians, last summer I watched a Sweden-Ukraine soccer match and at the beginning I wasn't sure which team was which, the players looked quite similar physically. I actually think I realized who the Swedes were when I saw a black player, that had to be a Swede.

    Sometime in the 70s, in times of greater freedom of expression, the economics Nobel Prize winner Simon Kuznets said that there are 4 kinds of countries in the world: the developed ones, the undeveloped ones, Japan and Argentina. Meaning that Japan wasn't supposed to be rich, being an oriental country, but was. And Argentina was supposed to be rich, being white, but wasn't.

    Now things have changed and we don't see so much of extraordinary in the cases of Japan and Argentina. Perhaps the new economic mystery is Ukraine. Why is it so poor? The only time I visited Kiev, in the 90s, I did get the impression that it was poorer than its neighbors, including Russia, and people in Kiev did seem perhaps to be more southern looking than in Poland, where I was traveling from. But later on I have met quite a few Ukrainian expatriates in Chile, Argentina, and recently in the US and these are generally not the kind of people that one associates with dysfunctional countries.

    I don't have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?

    I hope I am not invoking Hacks' Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country. The whole world has entered a new cold war era, much more senseless than the previous one, after the 2014 events in Ukraine so I think that it is objectively interesting to understand this country better.

    BTW, I have been more sympathetic than not to the Russian side in the Ukrainian conflict but I have the feeling that Putin is planning to do something that I won't like. Russian moves tend to be unpredictable and crude.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @AP, @Mr. Hack

    I hope I am not invoking Hacks’ Law with this comment but Ukraine has become a very strategically important country.

    It heartens me to see that the time that I spend at this blog is time well spent, working as an apostle promoting Ukraine’s importance to the modern world. I can see that you’re headed in the right direction! You may hope or not, but my message seems to be getting through. 🙂

    • Agree: Mikel
  863. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    "Jesus wants YOU to have good teeth, a nice car, and to give me lot's of money!"

    Or something like that as far as I can tell.

    Replies: @iffen

    Or something like that as far as I can tell.

    “Send our ministry \$25 and God will reward you a hundredfold. If you don’t have \$25, go next door and borrow it from your neighbor and God will reward you thousandfold.”

  864. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    Where is A123 anyhow?

    Somebody turn on the "Let's Go Brandon" signal and beam it into the starry night above the bustling metropolis of UNZ!

    Replies: @German_reader, @iffen

    They are probably off celebrating some Jewish holiday week.

  865. @Max Demian
    @Thulean Friend


    If neither divorce nor prostitution is allowed, then what you get is rampant pedophilia
     
    Isn't that a rather odd, even radical statement? Did you actually mean to assert, as your words would clearly seem to imply, that in communities that severely stigmatize, disincentivize and punish (through steep social costs such as shame and ostracization) both prostitution and divorce, as well as adultery*, that the actual, de facto incidence of all of those vices is sufficiently low, and the incidence of the vice of resorting to the use of children for sexual gratification sufficiently high, that the latter (i.e., "pedophilia", for short) completely overshadows the former (i.e, prostitution, adultery and divorce combined)?

    *Concerning adultery, is it your presumption that among demographics for which said vice is sufficiently stigmatized, disincentivized and punished , that adultery simply does not occur at any statistically significant level? Is that not the implication of the conspicuous absence in your comment of any mention, at least an explicit one, of adultery?

    Moreover, does your statement not also presuppose that at least a latent proclivity toward pedophilia* is commonly, if not universally, found in normal men?

    *As opposed to hebephilia, ephebophilia or even pederasty.

    On what basis would any of these assumptions and assertions be made?

    (just look at ultra-Orthodox Jews).
     
    On what basis do you assert that pedophilia is "rampant" among ultra-Orthodox [sic*] Jews? Is there any credible evidence that the incidence of pedophilia is any more prevalent among any subset of Jews than said phenomena (however defined) among either the general population or any other subset thereof? Any credible data? (Sensationalist tabloid articles, blog posts and the like that rely upon anecdotal, uncorroborated reports from individuals, often anonymous and almost always anything-but disinterested or objective, and of dubious character, does not qualify as credible data.)

    Men’s urges are what they are
     
    Question: Is it possible for a man to experience no conflict between his libido and his moral standards?

    Answer: Sure; as long as least one of those two (i.e., libido; moral standards) are low enough.

    Alternative version of same idea: Show me a man who experiences no conflict between his moral standards and his libido. And I'll show you a man who has an exceptionally low libido. Or remarkably low moral standards. At least one of those two.

    religion has to be molded on what life actually looks like and what people’s needs are and not the other way around, if it is to be sustainable and healthy.
     
    A counter-perspective to that was articulated by Barbarossa, in the comment in which he quoted C.S. Lewis. By establishing an ideal to strive toward, rigorous standards provide much value even if never quite reached. This applies not only in the religious realm but also in the secular and civil realms as well.

    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.
     
    Indeed. But didn't you skip-over at least one intermediary step between toleration and veneration? Namely, that of acceptance? Note how quickly we went from toleration to full acceptance, and then from that to the veneration and celebration, now mandatory, that presently prevails.

    I refer here, of course, primarily to the transformation that attitudes toward alternative sexual identities, lifestyles and behaviors have taken over the past quarter-century or so. Note that this trend toward greater liberality and acceptance in matters sexual has not been even and consistent. There are a number of areas in which attitudes have trended in the very opposite direction, toward less tolerance; what many have and would call puritanism; and even downright hysteria.

    Replies: @iffen

    Note that this trend toward greater liberality and acceptance in matters sexual has not been even and consistent. There are a number of areas in which attitudes have trended in the very opposite direction, toward less tolerance; what many have and would call puritanism; and even downright hysteria.

    Don’t fret Max.

    The USNS Harvey Milk is “oiling” the ocean blue daily.

    It’s only a matter of time before the USNS Chickenhawk will be cruising the world’s ports nightly.

  866. Let me say that I mislike how rural Japanese treat blacks. And by that I mean, how they bow very low, ask to take pictures with them, and, afterward, fistbump them.

  867. @sher singh
    @AP

    So basically what you're saying is coming to the New World was a mistake, since syphillis.
    If you disagree with this, you're gay.

    Replies: @iffen

    According to the tenets of your religion, is it not dishonorable to use a crossbow instead of a blade?

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @iffen

    "They are, without any exception, the most insolent and worthless race of people in all India. They are religious fanatics, and acknowledge no ruler and no laws but their own; think nothing of robbery or even murder, should they happen to be in the humour for it. They move about constantly, armed to the teeth, and it is not an uncommon thing to see them riding about with a drawn sword in each hand, two more in their belt, a matchlock at their back, and three or four pair of quoits fastened round their turbans."

    -Sir Lepel Griffin, Ranjit Singh (London: Clarendon Press 1892)

  868. Perhaps, the modern conception of Santa Claus is based on easy access to oil.

    • Agree: Yellowface Anon
  869. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    And if we look today, Estonians receive the most VC funds per capita in Europe.
     
    Estonia is a very popular location for setting up a remote IT firm and they even hand out "e-citizenships" to foreign entrepreneurs, so a large fraction of that VC funding is likely going to outsiders who merely use it as a taxation base (much like Ireland's GDP is inflated due to American firms doing tax shenanigans).

    Nevertheless, even factoring this in, it's certainly true that Estonia is very open to entrepreneurship, has very low levels of debt and has achieved high levels of prosperity after communism very quickly. Their tax code is minimalistic and clean and their bureaucratic efficiency is high. All of which to say that Estonia's an impressive country, but using VC funds per capita might not be the best metric to use here, given the particularities of their circumstances.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    What has Lithuania done to exceed Estonia slightly in GDP per capita?

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Yellowface Anon


    What has Lithuania done to exceed Estonia slightly in GDP per capita?
     
    They had recently made some significant investments in infrastructure which helped the local businesses and manufacturers that were able to increase exports. It looks like they might have a better age structure, with a higher proportion of people active in the labor force, and they were able to increase productivity. On top of that, there's been recent improvement in institutional quality.

    I would also say that Lithuanians are more entrepreneurial than Estonians (and Latvians), in my experience they have a somewhat more aggressive business approach (in a good way). For example, Lithuanian owned retail chains have been able to spread regionally and appropriate a bigger market share where they have to compete quite fiercely with Scandinavian chains. And now possibly with a Russian chain that has recently showed up on the scene. Basically, they have better group organizational skills.

    As to Estonia, there is a metric out there called "Human Development Index (HDI)" and they score pretty well on that one, somewhere on the level of Czech Republic.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  870. A123 says: • Website
    @German_reader
    @Barbarossa

    Maybe he's been kidnapped on the orders of Merkel and IslamoSoros, and is now being brainwashed into adopting Islamo-German values instead of Judeo-Christian ones.
    Not that I hope for anything of the sort, his comments are pretty unique after all.

    Replies: @A123

    The answer is pretty simple. As a Christian I have had many family commitments. Things that should have occurred last Christmas didn’t. So, there a number of family items need 24 months of upkeep instead of the usual 12. Fulfilling, but time consuming and stressful.
    ____

    As to continuing to post here… I am undecided.

    Politics is inherently somewhat negative:
    — Most individual wins are at best partial as they require compromise.
    — Defeating Not-The-President Biden’s crazy is necessary, but it doesn’t enact MAGA policy.
    — Wins happen in some states like Florida and Texas, but they cannot fix national problems.
    — Trench work to prepare for the midterms looks very positive at this point. Alas, there will not be any policy gains for another year, with the possibly exception of some Judicial wins.

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    The most rational commenters who added the new & interesting content are gradually departing. Think of it in HBD terms. As the best stock outflows, the remaining population is in decline. Presenting information to acolytes of emotional “anti-factual” dogma is futile.

    Poking the TROLLS is mildly amusing, but it also adds to the negativity. Upon reflection, I would like to avoid making things worse. I will do my best to stop unnecessarily prodding you, Iffen, and Barbarossa. If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.
    _____

    As to the merits of where we stand on the issues…

    The European WEF Elites in Davos have been poisoning Europe with excessive migration for decades. Merkel amped up that problem and sent it to America.

    The Fascist Storm Troopers of Antifa started in Europe (1)

    The Antifa movement has origins in several European countries in the early 20th century, particularly Germany and Italy, when fascism was a real and urgent concern. In Germany, it began during the rise of Hitler and it was far from perfect in its resistance to the rise of Nazism. For one, the German communist party and the German social democratic party never came to an agreement in their attempts to fight back. In Italy, a similar movement began as a response to Benito Mussolini’s regime.

    There are differing interpretations of how the name came about: BBC News, for example, reports that it is short for “anti-fascist.” In Germany, one attempt to unite the left during that time period was called Antifascischistsche Aktion. From it, others believe the name “Antifa” was born.

    It is not purely an one way street. Some things have travelled from the U.S. to Europe. However, “Western Europe” has had less Christianity and more Migration for decades. European politicians lead SJW Globalism. You do not have to look further than Scholz to see the bizarre direction that Germany is trying to take Europe (and the world including the U.S.). There is nothing “American” or “U.S. led” about the new German regime.
    ___

    There should be some good Bible quotes (from Romans?) about tending to one’s own problems. If your house is in order that gives you the resources and stability to successfully help others.

    The only people who can help Germany are the Germans. The only people who can help Europe are the Europeans. The EU needs to become less powerful or dissolve to make way for something more appropriate. Yes. The FRB has mishandled(∆∆) its dollar responsibilities. However, German Banking Elites in Frankfurt drove the ECB to “permanent negative interest rates”. Temporary “negative interest rates” were tried in Japan and worked poorly. Yet Brussels and German Elites rolled them out anyway.
    ___

    The U.S. has its own disastrous internal issues. Policies for MAGA Reindustrialization are inherently “positive” efforts about recovering jobs and capabilities that have been diminished or lost. However, the U.S. system like the EU system needs structural changes:

    — Destructive indoctrination has to be routed from schools, universities and the media.
    — MegaCorporations, especially international financial firms, need to be reigned in. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
    — Citizens who work need to reap the fruits of their labour. A full retrenchment to Marxism is not in the cards, but the Balance of Power has to be remedied.
    — There are a number of other things that also need to be strengthened, as protections in Bill of the Rights have been steamrolled, especially the 10th.

    Can the current Constitution can be fixed to deliver these “must have” changes?

    I am not so sure. It has been badly damaged and dragged away from its historical context. Add to that outpacing by technology. For example, travelling from London to Virginia in the late 1700’s took 6 weeks and unfortunate winds could extend that for more than a month. Today, flight time London to DC is about 8 hours and electronic communication is even faster. And, that is only one example of a concept that did not exist when the Constitution was written.

    Realistically, the current document rests on predicates & assumptions that have radically changed, so the necessary foundation is not solid. America probably needs a full Constitutional Convention to provide a sound replacement.
    __________________________

    I am short on editing time, so apologies in advance if this is a bit of a structural ramble. It will also have more than it’s fair share of typos and grammar issues. I have to head out for my next family event in a few minutes.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.bustle.com/p/where-did-antifa-come-from-the-movements-origins-go-back-to-germany-76340

    (∆∆) Yes. The phrase “FRB mishandling” is a potentially eye opening understatement. However, I am trying to avoid tidal waves of negativity. Anything more accurate is unlikely to be “positive”.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @A123


    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.
     
    It's not really my fight, but I do find it rather strange that you've gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump. Do you think it's a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it's primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves? imo that's not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you'll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.

    Replies: @songbird, @A123

    , @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    When you catch your breath, c'mon back! Here are a few political cartoons to help fill your Christmas stocking:

    https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz122421dAPR20211224124506.jpg
    The character Jimmy Stewart played in a “Wonderful Life” concluded his life was worth saving and not taking the plunge off the bridge. Ukrainians, and many Russians, would rejoice if Putin, after re-assessing his life, would take the leap!

    https://www.enterprise-journal.com/sites/default/files/field/image/316839_image.jpg
    Why won’t Biden be more critical of Xi Jinping and China? Is it because of the Biden Family Syndicate and its front man Hunter Biden? Or is it because the cognizant impaired Biden really sees no evil and feels no threat to America from China? Or is it because global corporations in China either out of fear or conviction are influencing Biden? Or is it because Biden hates our Constitutional restrictions on his presidential power and is envious of Xi Jinping’s near dictatorial powers?

    https://www.enterprise-journal.com/sites/default/files/field/image/316840_image.jpg
    The mainstream media will go into contortions to protect Biden from his failings but attack any criticism of him.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    , @iffen
    @A123

    If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.

    Thanks.

    I can't really come up with the words necessary to express my deep appreciation for you giving me the okay to change my commenting style.

    , @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm glad to hear that you have been spending some well deserved time with family.

    I hope that you don't think I'm antagonizing you in any any way. If it seems like I'm jibing you, it's intended as more of a friendly ribbing. As I've mentioned in the past, I do enjoy your presence as a commenter, even if I sometime disagree.

    I had actually meant to reply to our last conversation where you enjoined me to direct my discontent in a more productive direction.

    This is naturally a question that I've spent quite a bit of time on, without any real assurance that I can discern the correct answer.
    What I have broadly come to is that we are in a crisis that is social and spiritual at it's core, not political. Statism has overwhelmed all other competing power centers in society such as religion and the family which no longer function as motive forces on society. Instead, religion and the family have become essentially reactive forces, limited to whatever scope the State accords them.

    So, I don't see much real help coming from national politics, whether it's Trump or someone else. I'm happy to vote for people who will be less bad, such as Trump, but I feel that political improvements will be limited and temporary at best. Part of me also feels that the inevitable woke collapse is best accelerated and that the sooner the current system suffers a full meltdown the better. I basically think that most of institutions have reached such a level of hopeless rot that only full scale collapse and rebuilding can accomplish much.

    As such, I put the bulk of my efforts into things that I can have a direct effect on. My land, my family, and especially my children and their formation take paramount importance. Also building the local relationships and friendships which create a really strong and interconnected community. I think that these will be necessary in the nearer future than many may expect, and I am hoping that myself and a lot of people around me can continue to prosper as much as possible as the American Empire continues it's slide into irrelevance. With any luck, out of the way corners of America like mine will be able to maintain the blueprint for what it means to have a family or feel loyalty to a community and a particular corner of the world.

    Sometimes, I feel that far too much attention is paid to national politics and if the past couple generations had paid more attention to their kid's upbringing than who is on some national ticket we would be in a somewhat better place today.



    One way I think about this is in relation to abortion. Conservatives have obsessed about getting a Supreme Court roster that would allow for the repeal of Roe v. Wade, and indeed look like that may soon yield results. I would be glad to see Roe repealed but if there is no wider culture present which rejects abortion it will make little difference on the state level.
    By the same token, if Roe had really been groundbreaking it would have never been tolerated by the citizenry. Instead, Roe was merely codifying into law a shift which had already taken place in the culture.

    I hope that helps illuminate my general outlook and priorities. I have no idea if it's truly the best course, but it seems the best available with what resources are at my disposal.

    Replies: @A123

  871. @songbird
    Are anime and video games Japan's secret revenge for being defeated in WW2, just as the Great Migration can be considered the South's secret revenge for being defeated in the Civil War?

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon

    There’s no revenge when it creates an entire hikikomori population that imagine themselves copulating with semi-realistic women on paper and screens, instead of having real partners. A worst occupation than the physical one.

    Dixiedom turns into the Sunbelt after the Great Migration. Japan will stagnate for the rest of the century.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yellowface Anon

    What if the hikikomori/ otaku/ NEETs are all a show, put on for the benefit of Americans? They have zero unemployment, but are all working dedicatedly on a secret, national project, for the Emperor.

    They dropped the video game and anime bomb on us, but not on themselves? (That that was the original reason for region lock, to hide it). There was really no Lost Decades? But Japan has been experiencing continuous growth, since the war's end? Hidden by investing in cutting-edge military R&D and massive new hardware (troops of machine-gun ASIMOs)? Not graying, but with a cleverly hidden, massive youth bulge?

  872. I see Russia is now intending to ban Memorial completely, as foreign agents. Pretty negative development from my point of view, almost like it already indicates a wartime mentality.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed. I hope and expect these petty squabbles will grow into something more ideological eventually, so I was pleased to see this:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-mocks-woke-american-snowflakes-christmas-diversity-guide

    They were skating pretty close to the edge - imagine if "parent three" had been a black man - but perhaps in ten years. Of course, it would be banned then, but such direct moves, would probably necessitate former Warsaw Pact countries also deciding which side they are on ideologically. The faster that that happens, the better off we will be, IMO.

    Replies: @German_reader

  873. German_reader says:
    @A123
    @German_reader

    The answer is pretty simple. As a Christian I have had many family commitments. Things that should have occurred last Christmas didn't. So, there a number of family items need 24 months of upkeep instead of the usual 12. Fulfilling, but time consuming and stressful.
    ____

    As to continuing to post here... I am undecided.

    Politics is inherently somewhat negative:
    -- Most individual wins are at best partial as they require compromise.
    -- Defeating Not-The-President Biden's crazy is necessary, but it doesn't enact MAGA policy.
    -- Wins happen in some states like Florida and Texas, but they cannot fix national problems.
    -- Trench work to prepare for the midterms looks very positive at this point. Alas, there will not be any policy gains for another year, with the possibly exception of some Judicial wins.

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    The most rational commenters who added the new & interesting content are gradually departing. Think of it in HBD terms. As the best stock outflows, the remaining population is in decline. Presenting information to acolytes of emotional "anti-factual" dogma is futile.

    Poking the TROLLS is mildly amusing, but it also adds to the negativity. Upon reflection, I would like to avoid making things worse. I will do my best to stop unnecessarily prodding you, Iffen, and Barbarossa. If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.
    _____

    As to the merits of where we stand on the issues...

    The European WEF Elites in Davos have been poisoning Europe with excessive migration for decades. Merkel amped up that problem and sent it to America.

    The Fascist Storm Troopers of Antifa started in Europe (1)


    The Antifa movement has origins in several European countries in the early 20th century, particularly Germany and Italy, when fascism was a real and urgent concern. In Germany, it began during the rise of Hitler and it was far from perfect in its resistance to the rise of Nazism. For one, the German communist party and the German social democratic party never came to an agreement in their attempts to fight back. In Italy, a similar movement began as a response to Benito Mussolini's regime.

    There are differing interpretations of how the name came about: BBC News, for example, reports that it is short for "anti-fascist." In Germany, one attempt to unite the left during that time period was called Antifascischistsche Aktion. From it, others believe the name "Antifa" was born.
     
    It is not purely an one way street. Some things have travelled from the U.S. to Europe. However, "Western Europe" has had less Christianity and more Migration for decades. European politicians lead SJW Globalism. You do not have to look further than Scholz to see the bizarre direction that Germany is trying to take Europe (and the world including the U.S.). There is nothing "American" or "U.S. led" about the new German regime.
    ___

    There should be some good Bible quotes (from Romans?) about tending to one's own problems. If your house is in order that gives you the resources and stability to successfully help others.

    The only people who can help Germany are the Germans. The only people who can help Europe are the Europeans. The EU needs to become less powerful or dissolve to make way for something more appropriate. Yes. The FRB has mishandled(∆∆) its dollar responsibilities. However, German Banking Elites in Frankfurt drove the ECB to "permanent negative interest rates". Temporary "negative interest rates" were tried in Japan and worked poorly. Yet Brussels and German Elites rolled them out anyway.
    ___

    The U.S. has its own disastrous internal issues. Policies for MAGA Reindustrialization are inherently "positive" efforts about recovering jobs and capabilities that have been diminished or lost. However, the U.S. system like the EU system needs structural changes:

    -- Destructive indoctrination has to be routed from schools, universities and the media.
    -- MegaCorporations, especially international financial firms, need to be reigned in. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
    -- Citizens who work need to reap the fruits of their labour. A full retrenchment to Marxism is not in the cards, but the Balance of Power has to be remedied.
    -- There are a number of other things that also need to be strengthened, as protections in Bill of the Rights have been steamrolled, especially the 10th.

    Can the current Constitution can be fixed to deliver these "must have" changes?

    I am not so sure. It has been badly damaged and dragged away from its historical context. Add to that outpacing by technology. For example, travelling from London to Virginia in the late 1700's took 6 weeks and unfortunate winds could extend that for more than a month. Today, flight time London to DC is about 8 hours and electronic communication is even faster. And, that is only one example of a concept that did not exist when the Constitution was written.

    Realistically, the current document rests on predicates & assumptions that have radically changed, so the necessary foundation is not solid. America probably needs a full Constitutional Convention to provide a sound replacement.
    __________________________

    I am short on editing time, so apologies in advance if this is a bit of a structural ramble. It will also have more than it's fair share of typos and grammar issues. I have to head out for my next family event in a few minutes.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.bustle.com/p/where-did-antifa-come-from-the-movements-origins-go-back-to-germany-76340

    (∆∆) Yes. The phrase "FRB mishandling" is a potentially eye opening understatement. However, I am trying to avoid tidal waves of negativity. Anything more accurate is unlikely to be "positive".

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack, @iffen, @Barbarossa

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    It’s not really my fight, but I do find it rather strange that you’ve gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump. Do you think it’s a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it’s primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves? imo that’s not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you’ll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    iffen denounced "Let's go Brandon!" A phrase which even Biden himself has enthusiastically endorsed.

    Though, I feel sorry for the race car driver, who seems to be getting the blowback professionally, and is, for all I know, innocent of politics. I wonder if the reporteress still has her job...

    , @A123
    @German_reader


    I do find it rather strange that you’ve gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump.
     
    I find it strange that Mikel and Iffen have started these bitter arguments.

    Do you think it’s a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it’s primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves?
     
    Are they on the MAGA team? They made unfounded accusations that are at best distracting & at worst destructive. How is an untrue and inflammatory first strike against the head of the MAGA movement helpful?

    I have provided both of them the opportunity to present practical & detailed steps to achieve 50%+ for House Appropriation funding of MAGA projects (e.g. Border Wall construction). If they show an *achievable* policy was lost, my mind is open to being convinced. The "ball is in their court" so to speak.


    imo that’s not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you’ll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.
     
    I see it differently. This quote may help:

    "Londo, has it occurred to you that half the other races are at war? We have to figure out what to do about them. About us. And you are worried about G'Kar. We have a lot bigger concerns here."

    "Big concerns grow from small concerns. You plant them, water them with tears, fertilize them with unconcern. If you ignore them, they grow. I have ignored this problem long enough."

    -- Vir & Londo in Babylon 5: Episode "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place", J. Michael Straczynski --
     

    I am a fairly easy going Trump supporter compared to many others. Their anti-factual #NeverTrump charges annoy me, but that is as far as it goes.

    However, I cannot ignore them as that would fertilize the ground for much larger future problems. How bad could it be if they openly repeat their libelous first strike accusations around less restrained MAGA supporters? That really could be a splinter event.

    I would be happy to have Iffen and Mikel on board as MAGA supporters. However, they need to hold up their side of the "alliance building" effort. Repeating inflammatory #Bidenista talking points is the equivalent of throwing live grenades into the MAGA trenches.

    I understand that they are upset at the situation... So are Trump and 95%+ of MAGA supporters. Why revisit dead issues from Trump's 1st Term? That is history that cannot be changed. Instead, I would respectfully suggest redirecting that emotion in a productive way, as motivation to fight the SJW/DNC.

    #LetsGoBrandon

     
    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/image-5-5.jpg

    Replies: @Mikel, @silviosilver

  874. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.
     
    Mexico is a plantation outpost of the US in a way that Argentina just is not. A very large share of US industrial firms have outsourced at least part of their production to Mexico. In other words, Mexico simply cannot be allowed to fail and if the country would face difficulties or instability that was threatening the integrity of the country then US elites would step in, whether Mexicans wanted to or not.

    Nothing similar exists with regards to Argentina, so their extravagant eccentricities can be tolerated since it isn't a country of systemic importance. Even "far-left" AMLO has been surprisingly fiscally conservative in his spending. He has chosen GDP declines in order to prioritise macroeconomic stability. He doesn't have much choice, he surely understands what will happen to him if he wants to go on a detour and indulge in his far-left supporters' fantasies.

    Seen in this light, US investors have a rational expectation that nothing much will happen. The only real constraint would be crime and the relative stagnation of Mexican society. From what I've heard, crime in Mexico is very localised and it's a highly unequal country, so if you know where to live, you could probably live quite well without fearing for random street violence.

    The woman in your video bought a house for $160K. That is very cheap by Western standards but Mexican wages are also 6-8 times lower. So the real comparison would be a house worth ~$1 million dollars in the West. For that money, you will live in a very good neighbourhood. Since she was an artist, she obviously didn't have much money and she didn't inherit wealth (otherwise she would have stayed in California, where she was for 25 years). From her point of view, it was a pragmatic economic decision to live comfortably in a country with relative political stability by sacrificing the dynamism of California for the sluggishness of Mexico.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    Well, Ms. Artista did state that she left a home in California, very similar in size and design, that she sold for \$500,000, and that was in 2008 almost fourteen years ago. Today, just accounting for inflation alone, that home would probably be worth what, \$750,000, maybe more? I believe that she stated that she now pays only \$800/year in property taxes. I’m conservatively guessing that her old place would merit taxes in the 12k – 15k per year category.

    As far as leaving the “dynamism” of California behind, you forgot to figure in the vastly exploding number of homeless tent dwellers that are sprouting up all over the Western seaboard. Dmitry has done an admirable job of including video clips depicting such encampments within various cities in the West. I don’t think that you’re likely to find any tented communities living within San Miguel del Alluende, although I wouldn’t be surprised to find some shanty towns way on the outskirts towards the countryside. She comes right out and states that she’s living her dream in Mexico, that she couldn’t dream of doing in California. Oh, and lest we forget, she has a second home in Mazatlán!

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    home in California, very similar in size and design, that she sold for $500,000, and that was in 2008 almost fourteen years ago. Today, just accounting for inflation alone, that home would probably be worth what, $750,000
     
    Surely it would should be more safe financially, to have the house in California. Or she could sell, and move those $750,000 to diverse investments within the USA.

    With $750,000 of assets, it's probably enough money to live as an artist in Mexico, without needing to invest any money in Mexico?

    -

    But probably she is more intelligent than me. It seems like that city is popular with American tourists, so it is perhaps some kind of ideal real estate where she can exhibit art and have tourists visiting the gallery.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdk1e-dGlCc

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  875. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    There's no revenge when it creates an entire hikikomori population that imagine themselves copulating with semi-realistic women on paper and screens, instead of having real partners. A worst occupation than the physical one.

    Dixiedom turns into the Sunbelt after the Great Migration. Japan will stagnate for the rest of the century.

    Replies: @songbird

    What if the hikikomori/ otaku/ NEETs are all a show, put on for the benefit of Americans? They have zero unemployment, but are all working dedicatedly on a secret, national project, for the Emperor.

    They dropped the video game and anime bomb on us, but not on themselves? (That that was the original reason for region lock, to hide it). There was really no Lost Decades? But Japan has been experiencing continuous growth, since the war’s end? Hidden by investing in cutting-edge military R&D and massive new hardware (troops of machine-gun ASIMOs)? Not graying, but with a cleverly hidden, massive youth bulge?

  876. @German_reader
    @A123


    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.
     
    It's not really my fight, but I do find it rather strange that you've gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump. Do you think it's a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it's primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves? imo that's not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you'll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.

    Replies: @songbird, @A123

    iffen denounced “Let’s go Brandon!” A phrase which even Biden himself has enthusiastically endorsed.

    Though, I feel sorry for the race car driver, who seems to be getting the blowback professionally, and is, for all I know, innocent of politics. I wonder if the reporteress still has her job…

  877. @A123
    @German_reader

    The answer is pretty simple. As a Christian I have had many family commitments. Things that should have occurred last Christmas didn't. So, there a number of family items need 24 months of upkeep instead of the usual 12. Fulfilling, but time consuming and stressful.
    ____

    As to continuing to post here... I am undecided.

    Politics is inherently somewhat negative:
    -- Most individual wins are at best partial as they require compromise.
    -- Defeating Not-The-President Biden's crazy is necessary, but it doesn't enact MAGA policy.
    -- Wins happen in some states like Florida and Texas, but they cannot fix national problems.
    -- Trench work to prepare for the midterms looks very positive at this point. Alas, there will not be any policy gains for another year, with the possibly exception of some Judicial wins.

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    The most rational commenters who added the new & interesting content are gradually departing. Think of it in HBD terms. As the best stock outflows, the remaining population is in decline. Presenting information to acolytes of emotional "anti-factual" dogma is futile.

    Poking the TROLLS is mildly amusing, but it also adds to the negativity. Upon reflection, I would like to avoid making things worse. I will do my best to stop unnecessarily prodding you, Iffen, and Barbarossa. If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.
    _____

    As to the merits of where we stand on the issues...

    The European WEF Elites in Davos have been poisoning Europe with excessive migration for decades. Merkel amped up that problem and sent it to America.

    The Fascist Storm Troopers of Antifa started in Europe (1)


    The Antifa movement has origins in several European countries in the early 20th century, particularly Germany and Italy, when fascism was a real and urgent concern. In Germany, it began during the rise of Hitler and it was far from perfect in its resistance to the rise of Nazism. For one, the German communist party and the German social democratic party never came to an agreement in their attempts to fight back. In Italy, a similar movement began as a response to Benito Mussolini's regime.

    There are differing interpretations of how the name came about: BBC News, for example, reports that it is short for "anti-fascist." In Germany, one attempt to unite the left during that time period was called Antifascischistsche Aktion. From it, others believe the name "Antifa" was born.
     
    It is not purely an one way street. Some things have travelled from the U.S. to Europe. However, "Western Europe" has had less Christianity and more Migration for decades. European politicians lead SJW Globalism. You do not have to look further than Scholz to see the bizarre direction that Germany is trying to take Europe (and the world including the U.S.). There is nothing "American" or "U.S. led" about the new German regime.
    ___

    There should be some good Bible quotes (from Romans?) about tending to one's own problems. If your house is in order that gives you the resources and stability to successfully help others.

    The only people who can help Germany are the Germans. The only people who can help Europe are the Europeans. The EU needs to become less powerful or dissolve to make way for something more appropriate. Yes. The FRB has mishandled(∆∆) its dollar responsibilities. However, German Banking Elites in Frankfurt drove the ECB to "permanent negative interest rates". Temporary "negative interest rates" were tried in Japan and worked poorly. Yet Brussels and German Elites rolled them out anyway.
    ___

    The U.S. has its own disastrous internal issues. Policies for MAGA Reindustrialization are inherently "positive" efforts about recovering jobs and capabilities that have been diminished or lost. However, the U.S. system like the EU system needs structural changes:

    -- Destructive indoctrination has to be routed from schools, universities and the media.
    -- MegaCorporations, especially international financial firms, need to be reigned in. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
    -- Citizens who work need to reap the fruits of their labour. A full retrenchment to Marxism is not in the cards, but the Balance of Power has to be remedied.
    -- There are a number of other things that also need to be strengthened, as protections in Bill of the Rights have been steamrolled, especially the 10th.

    Can the current Constitution can be fixed to deliver these "must have" changes?

    I am not so sure. It has been badly damaged and dragged away from its historical context. Add to that outpacing by technology. For example, travelling from London to Virginia in the late 1700's took 6 weeks and unfortunate winds could extend that for more than a month. Today, flight time London to DC is about 8 hours and electronic communication is even faster. And, that is only one example of a concept that did not exist when the Constitution was written.

    Realistically, the current document rests on predicates & assumptions that have radically changed, so the necessary foundation is not solid. America probably needs a full Constitutional Convention to provide a sound replacement.
    __________________________

    I am short on editing time, so apologies in advance if this is a bit of a structural ramble. It will also have more than it's fair share of typos and grammar issues. I have to head out for my next family event in a few minutes.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.bustle.com/p/where-did-antifa-come-from-the-movements-origins-go-back-to-germany-76340

    (∆∆) Yes. The phrase "FRB mishandling" is a potentially eye opening understatement. However, I am trying to avoid tidal waves of negativity. Anything more accurate is unlikely to be "positive".

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack, @iffen, @Barbarossa

    When you catch your breath, c’mon back! Here are a few political cartoons to help fill your Christmas stocking:
    The character Jimmy Stewart played in a “Wonderful Life” concluded his life was worth saving and not taking the plunge off the bridge. Ukrainians, and many Russians, would rejoice if Putin, after re-assessing his life, would take the leap!
    Why won’t Biden be more critical of Xi Jinping and China? Is it because of the Biden Family Syndicate and its front man Hunter Biden? Or is it because the cognizant impaired Biden really sees no evil and feels no threat to America from China? Or is it because global corporations in China either out of fear or conviction are influencing Biden? Or is it because Biden hates our Constitutional restrictions on his presidential power and is envious of Xi Jinping’s near dictatorial powers?

    [MORE]

    The mainstream media will go into contortions to protect Biden from his failings but attack any criticism of him.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mr. Hack

    Re: https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz122421dAPR20211224124506.jpg

    He brings up certain facts that some don't like to be known.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0v2zCX9O2s

  878. @A123
    @German_reader

    The answer is pretty simple. As a Christian I have had many family commitments. Things that should have occurred last Christmas didn't. So, there a number of family items need 24 months of upkeep instead of the usual 12. Fulfilling, but time consuming and stressful.
    ____

    As to continuing to post here... I am undecided.

    Politics is inherently somewhat negative:
    -- Most individual wins are at best partial as they require compromise.
    -- Defeating Not-The-President Biden's crazy is necessary, but it doesn't enact MAGA policy.
    -- Wins happen in some states like Florida and Texas, but they cannot fix national problems.
    -- Trench work to prepare for the midterms looks very positive at this point. Alas, there will not be any policy gains for another year, with the possibly exception of some Judicial wins.

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    The most rational commenters who added the new & interesting content are gradually departing. Think of it in HBD terms. As the best stock outflows, the remaining population is in decline. Presenting information to acolytes of emotional "anti-factual" dogma is futile.

    Poking the TROLLS is mildly amusing, but it also adds to the negativity. Upon reflection, I would like to avoid making things worse. I will do my best to stop unnecessarily prodding you, Iffen, and Barbarossa. If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.
    _____

    As to the merits of where we stand on the issues...

    The European WEF Elites in Davos have been poisoning Europe with excessive migration for decades. Merkel amped up that problem and sent it to America.

    The Fascist Storm Troopers of Antifa started in Europe (1)


    The Antifa movement has origins in several European countries in the early 20th century, particularly Germany and Italy, when fascism was a real and urgent concern. In Germany, it began during the rise of Hitler and it was far from perfect in its resistance to the rise of Nazism. For one, the German communist party and the German social democratic party never came to an agreement in their attempts to fight back. In Italy, a similar movement began as a response to Benito Mussolini's regime.

    There are differing interpretations of how the name came about: BBC News, for example, reports that it is short for "anti-fascist." In Germany, one attempt to unite the left during that time period was called Antifascischistsche Aktion. From it, others believe the name "Antifa" was born.
     
    It is not purely an one way street. Some things have travelled from the U.S. to Europe. However, "Western Europe" has had less Christianity and more Migration for decades. European politicians lead SJW Globalism. You do not have to look further than Scholz to see the bizarre direction that Germany is trying to take Europe (and the world including the U.S.). There is nothing "American" or "U.S. led" about the new German regime.
    ___

    There should be some good Bible quotes (from Romans?) about tending to one's own problems. If your house is in order that gives you the resources and stability to successfully help others.

    The only people who can help Germany are the Germans. The only people who can help Europe are the Europeans. The EU needs to become less powerful or dissolve to make way for something more appropriate. Yes. The FRB has mishandled(∆∆) its dollar responsibilities. However, German Banking Elites in Frankfurt drove the ECB to "permanent negative interest rates". Temporary "negative interest rates" were tried in Japan and worked poorly. Yet Brussels and German Elites rolled them out anyway.
    ___

    The U.S. has its own disastrous internal issues. Policies for MAGA Reindustrialization are inherently "positive" efforts about recovering jobs and capabilities that have been diminished or lost. However, the U.S. system like the EU system needs structural changes:

    -- Destructive indoctrination has to be routed from schools, universities and the media.
    -- MegaCorporations, especially international financial firms, need to be reigned in. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
    -- Citizens who work need to reap the fruits of their labour. A full retrenchment to Marxism is not in the cards, but the Balance of Power has to be remedied.
    -- There are a number of other things that also need to be strengthened, as protections in Bill of the Rights have been steamrolled, especially the 10th.

    Can the current Constitution can be fixed to deliver these "must have" changes?

    I am not so sure. It has been badly damaged and dragged away from its historical context. Add to that outpacing by technology. For example, travelling from London to Virginia in the late 1700's took 6 weeks and unfortunate winds could extend that for more than a month. Today, flight time London to DC is about 8 hours and electronic communication is even faster. And, that is only one example of a concept that did not exist when the Constitution was written.

    Realistically, the current document rests on predicates & assumptions that have radically changed, so the necessary foundation is not solid. America probably needs a full Constitutional Convention to provide a sound replacement.
    __________________________

    I am short on editing time, so apologies in advance if this is a bit of a structural ramble. It will also have more than it's fair share of typos and grammar issues. I have to head out for my next family event in a few minutes.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.bustle.com/p/where-did-antifa-come-from-the-movements-origins-go-back-to-germany-76340

    (∆∆) Yes. The phrase "FRB mishandling" is a potentially eye opening understatement. However, I am trying to avoid tidal waves of negativity. Anything more accurate is unlikely to be "positive".

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack, @iffen, @Barbarossa

    If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.

    Thanks.

    I can’t really come up with the words necessary to express my deep appreciation for you giving me the okay to change my commenting style.

    • Troll: A123
  879. @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Extremely little if you throw away the state's role in encouraging the building of cultural institutions, which is still quite small (the Cathedral works fine by itself)

    Replies: @songbird

    Wonder what percent of modern lesbianism is a direct result of what libertarians call “Big Government.

    Extremely little if you throw away the state’s role in encouraging the building of cultural institutions, which is still quite small (the Cathedral works fine by itself)

    There seem to be a lot of instances of lesbian alloparenting, in cases of women who are essentially single moms (though sometimes remarry lesbians). It is an interesting phenomenon. Maybe, that means, less are on welfare, than would be the case otherwise?

    I don’t want to accuse lesbians of conspiracy, but it is easy to see how they benefit from the regime in various ways (such as many attaining high, well-paid positions in bureaucracies) and how they are for the regime, including open borders. Tools that crush down men and probably increase their sexual opportunities.

  880. @AP
    @Mikel


    I don’t have an explanation for the Ukrainian case beyond the obvious: oligarchs plundered the country with abandon. But corrupt oligarchs generally thrive in societies where corruption exists in all strata of society, such as in Latin America. And why have people in Ukraine kept voting for one oligarch or another for decades?
     
    Unlike in other countries, Ukraine inherited a post-colonial situation: outside Galicia, all of its elites were Soviet compradors, and worse - those who were too incompetent to make it to Moscow so they were left behind in provincial Ukraine. Unlike the Communist-era elites of places like Poland, many of whom who were crypto-nationalists and Polish patriots at heart, the elites in Ukraine had little or no attachment to Ukraine and cynically used independence as way of stealing as much as possible without someone in Moscow looking over their shoulder (these same elites also found a way to avoid joining the EU with its scrutiny). Because pretty much all of the elites were like this, the Ukrainian people had no one else to choose from who had any experience running a government or business. A bloody revolution involving mass killings of the Soviet-era elites might have solved this, but this would have been terrible in its own way. Until Zelensky they didn't want to take chance with someone with no governing or business experience. So the Ukrainian people were stuck.

    Galicia is an exception (its the only region where the main political parties are parties with political programs such as Svoboda or Samopomich, rather than oligarch projects) but it is only 10% of the country by population, plus the real money being made in Ukraine was in steel and coal in the East. So by virtue of its passionate nationalism Galicia could steer the rest of the country culturally but could not attain power economically or politically - this power was firmly in the hands of the eastern oligarchs. If Galicia had become independent in 1991 it would have become another prosperous Visegrad country, similar to its neighbors Poland and Slovakia. But it would never do this because nationalism is very strong there.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    inherited a post-colonial situation:

    While these details about nationalism might be interesting, it’s not why the economy and politics is undeveloped.

    Ukraine’s economic and political situation inherited the same as other postsoviet countries. Only Ukraine doesn’t have oil and gas (unlike Russia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan), or EU guidance and funding (unlike Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania).

    Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania have solved many of the problems of postsoviet countries, but almost all other the postsoviet has the same problems – dictatorships pretending to be democracy, politicians that expropriate, power structure built on alliance of clans, lack of free media, lack of transparency (i.e. faked official data and statistics), and regular financial crisis.

    You need a high risk tolerance to invest in these countries (whereas you don’t nowadays to invest in Estonia), and new industries to replace the old are slow developing (unlike e.g. Estonia). For countries with rents from natural resources, the economy becomes dependent on the commodity cycle (although this is also true of some developed countries like Australia). Whereas for countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Armenia, Georgia there is less option for this (Armenia at least has gold mines), and growth industries might be IT consulting, tourism, remittances.

  881. @Thulean Friend
    @Dmitry


    These American investors in CNBC seem not to be concerned about the stability of the financial system of Mexico. Perhaps they have a high tolerance for risk.
     
    Mexico is a plantation outpost of the US in a way that Argentina just is not. A very large share of US industrial firms have outsourced at least part of their production to Mexico. In other words, Mexico simply cannot be allowed to fail and if the country would face difficulties or instability that was threatening the integrity of the country then US elites would step in, whether Mexicans wanted to or not.

    Nothing similar exists with regards to Argentina, so their extravagant eccentricities can be tolerated since it isn't a country of systemic importance. Even "far-left" AMLO has been surprisingly fiscally conservative in his spending. He has chosen GDP declines in order to prioritise macroeconomic stability. He doesn't have much choice, he surely understands what will happen to him if he wants to go on a detour and indulge in his far-left supporters' fantasies.

    Seen in this light, US investors have a rational expectation that nothing much will happen. The only real constraint would be crime and the relative stagnation of Mexican society. From what I've heard, crime in Mexico is very localised and it's a highly unequal country, so if you know where to live, you could probably live quite well without fearing for random street violence.

    The woman in your video bought a house for $160K. That is very cheap by Western standards but Mexican wages are also 6-8 times lower. So the real comparison would be a house worth ~$1 million dollars in the West. For that money, you will live in a very good neighbourhood. Since she was an artist, she obviously didn't have much money and she didn't inherit wealth (otherwise she would have stayed in California, where she was for 25 years). From her point of view, it was a pragmatic economic decision to live comfortably in a country with relative political stability by sacrificing the dynamism of California for the sluggishness of Mexico.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    Mexico simply cannot be allowed to fail.. woman in your video bought a house for \$160K.

    Yes she bought a very nice house, for not such a high price. Even if you said that USA will prevent Mexico from failing.

    Still it seems not such a good idea, as she is exposed to possibilities of smaller financial crisis, Mexican legal system.

    CNBC Make It also reported an American woman who immigrated to Mexico, without investing there.

    She just has \$1 million of index funds/stocks in the USA. She goes to Mexico with tourist visa and rents an apartment, giving her residency visa.

    This is how you would be sensible to live in middle income countries like Mexico. Your money is in the first world country, and you only rent an apartment in the country you live. This is just putting your toes in the dangerous country, while your wallet is in the developed country.

    The mistake is if you stored money into the country without high development, legal system and property rights.

  882. Memorial’s Standing in Russia

    Anatoly Karlin substantiates a damning point on the general Western mainstream commentary on the recent action concerning Memorial.

    The BBC chose to make the restriction against Memorial as the lead headline for a good portion of its newscasts. As noted by Karlin and contrary to the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, the action taken on Memorial isn’t a move against criticism of abuses in the USSR. As a comparison and for consistency sake, it’s not difficult to highlight media and political suppression going on in Kiev regime controlled Ukraine – something getting little, if any Western mass media and body politic coverage.

    Memorial has been legally required to list itself as a foreign agent, in a way deemed as being prominent enough. In choosing not to do so, Memorial set itself up for closure.

    The foreign list mindset is evident elsewhere. One example is Twitter and YouTube, hypocritically having RT listed as Russian government funded, unlike Western media outlets largely subsidized by a given government.

    I’m across the board not in favor of this kind of designation unless it’s consistently utilized – even then with apprehension. The same can’t be said of some others.

    Antony Blinken is quite rich in speaking out against the decision against Memorial. The US State Department has carried on like a part of a government ring, which has essentially disparaged some Americans like myself from earning extra money during these challenged economic times. Biden, Blinken & Co., have behaved more like dividers, as opposed to uniters.

    I’ve easily documented blatant lies getting rewarded in Western mass media.

    https://original.antiwar.com/michael_averko/2021/12/17/ongoing-smear-campaign-against-the-strategic-culture-foundation/

    In comparison, criticism of my work hasn’t included any specific examples of disinformation from me. This isn’t to say that I’m not exempt from error, as no one is perfect. I’m not the one glorying in censoring other ideas.

  883. Why US-Russian Relations Aren’t Good

    From an Ivy League academic with US government ties, this piece was run in a US foreign policy establishment venue:

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-biden-can-foster-real-peace-south-caucasus-198406

    Excerpt –

    A multilateral approach would limit Russia’s role in the post-Soviet space. It also presents an opportunity for the United States and Russia to work together on a regional conflict where their interests overlap.

    Translation: Neocon/neolib leaning foreign policy advocacy (not always acting in America’s best interests) should seek to limit Russian influence on countries geographically close to Russia. In turn, Russia should readily accept this approach. Not doing so is the sign of an imperialist mindset, unlike the one with tentacles spanning the globe, as highlighted:

    https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/header_photo

  884. @Mr. Hack
    @Thulean Friend

    Well, Ms. Artista did state that she left a home in California, very similar in size and design, that she sold for $500,000, and that was in 2008 almost fourteen years ago. Today, just accounting for inflation alone, that home would probably be worth what, $750,000, maybe more? I believe that she stated that she now pays only $800/year in property taxes. I'm conservatively guessing that her old place would merit taxes in the 12k - 15k per year category.

    As far as leaving the "dynamism" of California behind, you forgot to figure in the vastly exploding number of homeless tent dwellers that are sprouting up all over the Western seaboard. Dmitry has done an admirable job of including video clips depicting such encampments within various cities in the West. I don't think that you're likely to find any tented communities living within San Miguel del Alluende, although I wouldn't be surprised to find some shanty towns way on the outskirts towards the countryside. She comes right out and states that she's living her dream in Mexico, that she couldn't dream of doing in California. Oh, and lest we forget, she has a second home in Mazatlán!

    Replies: @Dmitry

    home in California, very similar in size and design, that she sold for \$500,000, and that was in 2008 almost fourteen years ago. Today, just accounting for inflation alone, that home would probably be worth what, \$750,000

    Surely it would should be more safe financially, to have the house in California. Or she could sell, and move those \$750,000 to diverse investments within the USA.

    With \$750,000 of assets, it’s probably enough money to live as an artist in Mexico, without needing to invest any money in Mexico?

    But probably she is more intelligent than me. It seems like that city is popular with American tourists, so it is perhaps some kind of ideal real estate where she can exhibit art and have tourists visiting the gallery.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    But probably she is more intelligent than me. It seems like that city is popular with American tourists, so it is perhaps some kind of ideal real estate where she can exhibit art and have tourists visiting the gallery.
     
    I doubt that she's more intelligent than you are, but being an artist like you point out, her chances of doing business in this touristy mecca are probably greatly enhanced. It looks like a really charming place to visit, only 60 miles from Mexico city that also has many of its own places to visit and see. Doing a Google search, I spotted several camping/hot mineral spas nearby that also looked inviting and great places to relax and get away from it all.
  885. Resurfacing Anti-Serb Propaganda

    Re: https://insomniacresurrected.com/2021/12/13/i-guess-this-is-why-republika-srpska-wants-out-of-bosnia/

    Of late, Christiane Amanpour and The National Interest have hosted anti-Serb/pro-Bosnian Muslim nationalist leaning commentary against Republika Srpska.

    Somewhat related thoughts expressed at this thread:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/24122021-deconstructing-john-batchelors-shows-on-russia-oped/#comments

  886. @German_reader
    I see Russia is now intending to ban Memorial completely, as foreign agents. Pretty negative development from my point of view, almost like it already indicates a wartime mentality.

    Replies: @songbird

    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed. I hope and expect these petty squabbles will grow into something more ideological eventually, so I was pleased to see this:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-mocks-woke-american-snowflakes-christmas-diversity-guide

    They were skating pretty close to the edge – imagine if “parent three” had been a black man – but perhaps in ten years. Of course, it would be banned then, but such direct moves, would probably necessitate former Warsaw Pact countries also deciding which side they are on ideologically. The faster that that happens, the better off we will be, IMO.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed.
     
    Putin and his circle aren't champions of the white race or whatever, they're pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they'd probably also sponsor BLM). To some extent I even consider that legitimate, but the prospect of a major Russian invasion of Ukraine is terrifying to me, and I can see no merit in accelerationist arguments that something good could come out of it. I really hope it doesn't happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @silviosilver, @songbird

  887. @German_reader
    @A123


    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.
     
    It's not really my fight, but I do find it rather strange that you've gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump. Do you think it's a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it's primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves? imo that's not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you'll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.

    Replies: @songbird, @A123

    I do find it rather strange that you’ve gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump.

    I find it strange that Mikel and Iffen have started these bitter arguments.

    Do you think it’s a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it’s primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves?

    Are they on the MAGA team? They made unfounded accusations that are at best distracting & at worst destructive. How is an untrue and inflammatory first strike against the head of the MAGA movement helpful?

    I have provided both of them the opportunity to present practical & detailed steps to achieve 50%+ for House Appropriation funding of MAGA projects (e.g. Border Wall construction). If they show an *achievable* policy was lost, my mind is open to being convinced. The “ball is in their court” so to speak.

    imo that’s not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you’ll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.

    I see it differently. This quote may help:

    “Londo, has it occurred to you that half the other races are at war? We have to figure out what to do about them. About us. And you are worried about G’Kar. We have a lot bigger concerns here.”

    Big concerns grow from small concerns. You plant them, water them with tears, fertilize them with unconcern. If you ignore them, they grow. I have ignored this problem long enough.”

    — Vir & Londo in Babylon 5: Episode “And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place”, J. Michael Straczynski —

    I am a fairly easy going Trump supporter compared to many others. Their anti-factual #NeverTrump charges annoy me, but that is as far as it goes.

    However, I cannot ignore them as that would fertilize the ground for much larger future problems. How bad could it be if they openly repeat their libelous first strike accusations around less restrained MAGA supporters? That really could be a splinter event.

    I would be happy to have Iffen and Mikel on board as MAGA supporters. However, they need to hold up their side of the “alliance building” effort. Repeating inflammatory #Bidenista talking points is the equivalent of throwing live grenades into the MAGA trenches.

    I understand that they are upset at the situation… So are Trump and 95%+ of MAGA supporters. Why revisit dead issues from Trump’s 1st Term? That is history that cannot be changed. Instead, I would respectfully suggest redirecting that emotion in a productive way, as motivation to fight the SJW/DNC.

    #LetsGoBrandon

     

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123


    I would be happy to have Iffen and Mikel on board as MAGA supporters. However, they need to hold up their side of the “alliance building” effort.
     
    OK. If you keep posting your weekly humor threads, I won't mention that Trump turned out to be little more than a narcissistic buffoon.
    , @silviosilver
    @A123

    That red/blue graphic is simply top notch. Great find. (Or was it your own creation?)

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

  888. @Yellowface Anon
    @Thulean Friend

    What has Lithuania done to exceed Estonia slightly in GDP per capita?

    Replies: @LatW

    What has Lithuania done to exceed Estonia slightly in GDP per capita?

    They had recently made some significant investments in infrastructure which helped the local businesses and manufacturers that were able to increase exports. It looks like they might have a better age structure, with a higher proportion of people active in the labor force, and they were able to increase productivity. On top of that, there’s been recent improvement in institutional quality.

    I would also say that Lithuanians are more entrepreneurial than Estonians (and Latvians), in my experience they have a somewhat more aggressive business approach (in a good way). For example, Lithuanian owned retail chains have been able to spread regionally and appropriate a bigger market share where they have to compete quite fiercely with Scandinavian chains. And now possibly with a Russian chain that has recently showed up on the scene. Basically, they have better group organizational skills.

    As to Estonia, there is a metric out there called “Human Development Index (HDI)” and they score pretty well on that one, somewhere on the level of Czech Republic.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Lithuanians are more entrepreneurial

     

    From reading the OECD website, I was receiving a bit more optimism for Estonia.

    Lithuania has some problem of income inquality, which is perhaps an inevitable side of a very "neoliberal" policy. They also say "high the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution".

    In the longer report, they were also a little worried about corruption of the state owned companies in Lithuania.

    They were painting these pictures on the OECD website for their Lithuania report.

    https://i.imgur.com/NQOFPoA.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/BTDdZXp.jpg

    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/Lithuania-country-note-going-for-growth-2021.pdf

    For their Estonia report, they were giving the slightly better report for income inequality. "Inequality is on part with advanced economies". And "a very low proportion of the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution".

    This is their picture about Estonia.
    https://i.imgur.com/jtfblfo.jpg
    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/Estonia-country-note-going-for-growth-2021.pdf

    But they talk about regional inequality, with "north-east of the country, where unemployment and poverty rates are high".

    Replies: @LatW

  889. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader

    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed. I hope and expect these petty squabbles will grow into something more ideological eventually, so I was pleased to see this:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-mocks-woke-american-snowflakes-christmas-diversity-guide

    They were skating pretty close to the edge - imagine if "parent three" had been a black man - but perhaps in ten years. Of course, it would be banned then, but such direct moves, would probably necessitate former Warsaw Pact countries also deciding which side they are on ideologically. The faster that that happens, the better off we will be, IMO.

    Replies: @German_reader

    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed.

    Putin and his circle aren’t champions of the white race or whatever, they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM). To some extent I even consider that legitimate, but the prospect of a major Russian invasion of Ukraine is terrifying to me, and I can see no merit in accelerationist arguments that something good could come out of it. I really hope it doesn’t happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @German_reader

    Not likely to happen IMO:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/09122021-russian-ukraine-coverage-continues-to-lack-insight-oped/

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/07/18/getting-putin-intentions-wrong-again-on-russia-ukraine/

    , @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM).
     
    Then by the same logic they probably also sponsor WN if they thought it would help their interests. And WN of course is much more likely to be of use to them than BLM. BLM values would want to see Russia "diversified" (ie homosexualized, islamified and negrofuxxated), whereas WN would be more than content to leave them alone.

    Same thing with China. Can their leadership seriously be so retarded as to not understand that WNs would be perfectly content to see China rule over all east Asia if it meant that WNs could have their white ethnostate? If you want America to back the fuck off and give you free rein in east Asia, how can there be any serious doubt that backing WN would be in Chinese state interests? The only reason I can think of is racial butthurt - they're too insulted or threatened by WNs considering whites "superior" to Chinese. (Obviously not superior in IQ.)

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart

    , @songbird
    @German_reader


    Putin and his circle aren’t champions of the white race or whatever
     
    Pretty obvious. And yet, God works in mysterious ways.

    Note how "parent #3" in the advert was wearing a black shirt, compared to the white shirts of parents #1 and #2. Not that I am trying to read to much into it, but I think it suggests something subconscious, or maybe something that they are aware of. Just a hint or seed of the distant future.

    they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM
     
    I am more cynical - they are pursuing their own interests, and this requires a Russian state - or something separate from the West, and there are patterns of history which make one hopeful that there will be or continue to be such a thing.

    Nobody wants to die for Putin's secret bank accounts. Some organizing ideology is needed. Russian nationalism will work for now, but has deficiencies. Who does it bring into orbit? You need pan-Slavism, at least, if you are keeping one eye to the West. But how can one use it to criticize the opposite regime? Or to win defectors? How does it fit into long-term trends, about destabilizing the other?

    Funding BLM is not optimal tactics, as those people hate Russia (since they see it as the biggest white country) and would probably nuke it, if they could. It would make much more sense to fund Euro nationalist groups - I'm talking decades in the future, after Putin, if Russia continues on a separate path.

    Why try to rebuild a strong West? Well, realistically speaking it would be a hierarchy of power, with Russia as top dog. But that is frankly more enticing from my perspective than what seems to be the alternative.

    I really hope it doesn’t happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.
     
    if WW3 starts, it will be gays and trannies that start it. But I am hopeful that that won't happen, and it will be a cold war. Cold war accelerationism seems desirable from my perspective.

    Replies: @German_reader

  890. @German_reader
    @songbird


    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed.
     
    Putin and his circle aren't champions of the white race or whatever, they're pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they'd probably also sponsor BLM). To some extent I even consider that legitimate, but the prospect of a major Russian invasion of Ukraine is terrifying to me, and I can see no merit in accelerationist arguments that something good could come out of it. I really hope it doesn't happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @silviosilver, @songbird

  891. @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    Did that T-shirt have the dog’s face on the back? I suppose there could be a jacket with a dog face on the back, but I have not seen one.
     
    It did not, however, it's quite large and it would be little effort to just wear it backwards (there are even larger sizes too).

    Assuming a person is running into the forest the left leg is up and the sole should be facing camera. No snow stuck to the sole of the shoe? I cannot come up with a plausible explanation for a human left leg.
     
    Perhaps, and I see your point. I'm starting to see more credence for the dog image now...

    What makes me most suspicious is the “human head”. Zoom in on it. It does not work as a hair or hat. It is plausible as an incidental background shrubbery or the dog’s tail.
     
    I'm not able to do a super zoom on the protruding back piece. I can still envision a guy's head with a dover style hat on top...if it's a piece of shrubbery, it's foundation seems out of place, inside the pathway being used. Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It's definitely a cleverly made deception, as we're still discussing its meaning. :-)

    Replies: @A123, @A123

    Do you know the origin of the photo used in the cartoon that you presented? It’s definitely a cleverly made deception, as we’re still discussing its meaning. 🙂

    One of my family members brought up the “man or dog” optical illusion meme. (1)

    The subject of the picture is actually a black poodle dog running towards the camera through the snow.

    The picture surprised many for its strange illusion and it has since gone viral as more and more people on social media started talking about it and sharing it further. Netizens are discussing the flaw in their perception and how the picture is tricking them into seeing something else. It is only after a couple of viewing that they agree that it was actually a black dog and not a man.

    The picture with the article is higher quality and looks more crisply “doggish(?)” than the grainy meme I originally shared.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://www.dnaindia.com/viral/report-viral-is-it-a-man-or-is-it-a-dog-optical-illusion-intrigues-netizens-2873278

     

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
  892. @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    economic mystery is Ukraine.
     
    Ukraine is the same as all postsoviet countries, except for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania which seem to have resolved many of the postsoviet problems (but they are in the EU).* And Ukraine also has some additional problems of lack of oil/gas, political instability, conflict with neighbors.

    I don't think there is so much mystery about these problems, and neither is there seeming so much mystery (at least in naming of many problems) for Argentina/Mexico/Brazil.

    Economic, social and political problems of the postsoviet sphere are explained even by American media (which cannot basic things about the local culture otherwise) as CNBC, Bloomberg, CNN, in basic textbooks of economic history, beginners' books of political science. Most of the world knows about these problems, although knowing the problems unfortunately doesn't necessarily make it easier to solve.

    -

    * I'm emotionally sympathetic to so many beautiful things in the Soviet Union and Russian Empire, but this multigenerational mess afterwards is one of the areas where you cannot defend, and will give a point to AP's point of view about this region - when there is such mess, then you should be forced to question the wisdom of events which preceded it even where they were sources of pride.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Thanks for your thoughts on Ukraine. Perhaps you are right that Ukraine is just similar to Russia without its vast natural resources. However, it is striking to see Ukraine ranking closer to countries far away of its cultural sphere than to its neighbors in economic matters. Last time I checked, Russia’s per capita GDP was about 3 times larger.

    when there is such mess, then you should be forced to question the wisdom of events which preceded it even where they were sources of pride

    I guess somebody was going to try the Marxist ideas sooner or later and it just happened to be Russia. We wouldn’t know how a socialist economy with no private capital works in practice if you guys hadn’t tried it.

    Perhaps you are unaware of how influential the USSR was in the world. Lots of people in Western countries looked at the Soviet and Eastern European examples with admiration. Many believed that it was a matter of time until communism took over the entire world, including some relatives of mine. I remember them discussing at family gatherings if the Soviet or the Yugoslav system was better. My father, a businessman who would lose his factory if any of them was implemented, dismissed their ideas but they were certainly part of the public discourse. A cousin of mine and her husband, both doctors, visited East Germany and came back with a positive impression… barely a year before the Berlin Wall fell down.

    Shortly after the Iron Curtain fell I traveled to Eastern Europe. I was very curious to finally find out what these countries were like in real life. I spent most of the time in Poland but visited some neighboring countries too.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mikel


    Western countries looked at the Soviet and Eastern European examples with admiration

     

    And justifiably, at least by the 1960s there are so many overachievements to impress the world public.

    The world's most powerful army that defeated fascism, the atomic energy, the country which produces human's first exit from planet, much of the world's best classical music performers, the winners of most Olympic medals, the most famous living or recently dead classical music composers (Shostakovich, Prokofiev), one of the greatest cinemas, a factory of many great scientists and Nobel prizes, all the chess champions, and perhaps the most beautiful television productions.

    Also there were domestic successes far more than you could have predicted, in terms of living standards of the population, life expectancy was at a Western level, an education level higher than some Western countries, incredibly rapid urban and housing development, great civil engineering achievements, full employment, relative illusion (if not exactly real) of equality.

    Development economists and historians were surprised by the world's fastest industrialization from Europe's most backward region, from the plough to atomic weapons. Subjectively, many or most people were happy with the society, if you know the people who lived then.

    This isn't to condone the politics of the Russian Empire and USSR, which latter has been far more vulnerable (including to oil price) than even any critics imagined, dissolves to mutual hatred and violence between the constituent nationalities, and which its worst properties (e.g. dictatorship masked with propaganda, hierarchical police state, mass censorship, mass imprisonment, etc), continue to exist from Turkmenistan to Belarus.


    Ukraine is just similar to Russia without its vast natural
     
    Yes explanation for the income difference. Although Russia is not homogenous in terms of income. There are regions in the Russian Federation (including some of the wealthiest in terms of resource production) which have the same income as Ukraine, and other region with far higher income (destinations for the wealth).

    Ukraine had reliance in mostly industries which could work in a Soviet context, but not in a postsoviet context. While in Russia "big money" is commodities industries (oil, gas, aluminum, diamonds, copper, zinc), which can be booming industries in the postsoviet context, and internationally competitive. Companies like Alrosa, Rusal, Nornickel, Severstal, Gazprom dominate the world in their sectors. They are often world leaders for those industries.

    But for Ukraine, I'm not sure there was a possibility for them to produce Rusal or Alrosa, and certainly not for Rosneft or Lukoil.

    It's not to condone the disaster of Ukraine, or say they couldn't have been differently than Moldova or Belarus. Estonia was only 30 years ago in the Soviet Union, and now many of their indicators seem to be like any North Western capitalist country (although with only their tiny population).

  893. @A123
    @German_reader


    I do find it rather strange that you’ve gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump.
     
    I find it strange that Mikel and Iffen have started these bitter arguments.

    Do you think it’s a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it’s primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves?
     
    Are they on the MAGA team? They made unfounded accusations that are at best distracting & at worst destructive. How is an untrue and inflammatory first strike against the head of the MAGA movement helpful?

    I have provided both of them the opportunity to present practical & detailed steps to achieve 50%+ for House Appropriation funding of MAGA projects (e.g. Border Wall construction). If they show an *achievable* policy was lost, my mind is open to being convinced. The "ball is in their court" so to speak.


    imo that’s not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you’ll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.
     
    I see it differently. This quote may help:

    "Londo, has it occurred to you that half the other races are at war? We have to figure out what to do about them. About us. And you are worried about G'Kar. We have a lot bigger concerns here."

    "Big concerns grow from small concerns. You plant them, water them with tears, fertilize them with unconcern. If you ignore them, they grow. I have ignored this problem long enough."

    -- Vir & Londo in Babylon 5: Episode "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place", J. Michael Straczynski --
     

    I am a fairly easy going Trump supporter compared to many others. Their anti-factual #NeverTrump charges annoy me, but that is as far as it goes.

    However, I cannot ignore them as that would fertilize the ground for much larger future problems. How bad could it be if they openly repeat their libelous first strike accusations around less restrained MAGA supporters? That really could be a splinter event.

    I would be happy to have Iffen and Mikel on board as MAGA supporters. However, they need to hold up their side of the "alliance building" effort. Repeating inflammatory #Bidenista talking points is the equivalent of throwing live grenades into the MAGA trenches.

    I understand that they are upset at the situation... So are Trump and 95%+ of MAGA supporters. Why revisit dead issues from Trump's 1st Term? That is history that cannot be changed. Instead, I would respectfully suggest redirecting that emotion in a productive way, as motivation to fight the SJW/DNC.

    #LetsGoBrandon

     
    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/image-5-5.jpg

    Replies: @Mikel, @silviosilver

    I would be happy to have Iffen and Mikel on board as MAGA supporters. However, they need to hold up their side of the “alliance building” effort.

    OK. If you keep posting your weekly humor threads, I won’t mention that Trump turned out to be little more than a narcissistic buffoon.

  894. @A123
    @German_reader


    I do find it rather strange that you’ve gotten into such bitter arguments with commenters like Mikel and iffen, who according to their own statements voted for Trump.
     
    I find it strange that Mikel and Iffen have started these bitter arguments.

    Do you think it’s a constructive approach in politics to attack those on your own team like that and demand total conformity to your own point of view, especially when it’s primarily about Trump as a person, not so much about the political issues themselves?
     
    Are they on the MAGA team? They made unfounded accusations that are at best distracting & at worst destructive. How is an untrue and inflammatory first strike against the head of the MAGA movement helpful?

    I have provided both of them the opportunity to present practical & detailed steps to achieve 50%+ for House Appropriation funding of MAGA projects (e.g. Border Wall construction). If they show an *achievable* policy was lost, my mind is open to being convinced. The "ball is in their court" so to speak.


    imo that’s not how political alliances work and is only likely to splinter your own side, so you’ll continue to lose against an ever more hegemonic left.
     
    I see it differently. This quote may help:

    "Londo, has it occurred to you that half the other races are at war? We have to figure out what to do about them. About us. And you are worried about G'Kar. We have a lot bigger concerns here."

    "Big concerns grow from small concerns. You plant them, water them with tears, fertilize them with unconcern. If you ignore them, they grow. I have ignored this problem long enough."

    -- Vir & Londo in Babylon 5: Episode "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place", J. Michael Straczynski --
     

    I am a fairly easy going Trump supporter compared to many others. Their anti-factual #NeverTrump charges annoy me, but that is as far as it goes.

    However, I cannot ignore them as that would fertilize the ground for much larger future problems. How bad could it be if they openly repeat their libelous first strike accusations around less restrained MAGA supporters? That really could be a splinter event.

    I would be happy to have Iffen and Mikel on board as MAGA supporters. However, they need to hold up their side of the "alliance building" effort. Repeating inflammatory #Bidenista talking points is the equivalent of throwing live grenades into the MAGA trenches.

    I understand that they are upset at the situation... So are Trump and 95%+ of MAGA supporters. Why revisit dead issues from Trump's 1st Term? That is history that cannot be changed. Instead, I would respectfully suggest redirecting that emotion in a productive way, as motivation to fight the SJW/DNC.

    #LetsGoBrandon

     
    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/image-5-5.jpg

    Replies: @Mikel, @silviosilver

    That red/blue graphic is simply top notch. Great find. (Or was it your own creation?)

    • Replies: @A123
    @silviosilver

    Not mine. PowerLineBlog has their own round up.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/category/the-week-in-pictures

    The one for Christmas is excellent.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

     
    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/12/image-5-4.jpg

    , @songbird
    @silviosilver

    It is funny because red is basically the color that the media shafted the Republicans with, by choosing it for them, with its negative psychological connotations.

    But it is good in a Christmas or Chinese context.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  895. @German_reader
    @songbird


    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed.
     
    Putin and his circle aren't champions of the white race or whatever, they're pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they'd probably also sponsor BLM). To some extent I even consider that legitimate, but the prospect of a major Russian invasion of Ukraine is terrifying to me, and I can see no merit in accelerationist arguments that something good could come out of it. I really hope it doesn't happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @silviosilver, @songbird

    they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM).

    Then by the same logic they probably also sponsor WN if they thought it would help their interests. And WN of course is much more likely to be of use to them than BLM. BLM values would want to see Russia “diversified” (ie homosexualized, islamified and negrofuxxated), whereas WN would be more than content to leave them alone.

    Same thing with China. Can their leadership seriously be so retarded as to not understand that WNs would be perfectly content to see China rule over all east Asia if it meant that WNs could have their white ethnostate? If you want America to back the fuck off and give you free rein in east Asia, how can there be any serious doubt that backing WN would be in Chinese state interests? The only reason I can think of is racial butthurt – they’re too insulted or threatened by WNs considering whites “superior” to Chinese. (Obviously not superior in IQ.)

    • Replies: @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    I think the Chinese are biding their time and correctly realize that WNs are too much of a minority to even bother with and have no political weight whatsoever. Not worth the effort to support and too dangerous because the West is too unpredictable and could cause a nuclear war or something.

    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.


    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.

    America and the American right itself has a White People Problem. and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos. And these very whites want to turn Europe into America. White≠European.

    New worlders and their assorted shock troops with their neoliberalism or libertarian culture seek to destroy and devour the old world just as before...nothing changes.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @German_reader

  896. @German_reader
    @songbird


    If Euros cannot find competing elites in Eastern Europe, then they are totally screwed.
     
    Putin and his circle aren't champions of the white race or whatever, they're pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they'd probably also sponsor BLM). To some extent I even consider that legitimate, but the prospect of a major Russian invasion of Ukraine is terrifying to me, and I can see no merit in accelerationist arguments that something good could come out of it. I really hope it doesn't happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @silviosilver, @songbird

    Putin and his circle aren’t champions of the white race or whatever

    Pretty obvious. And yet, God works in mysterious ways.

    Note how “parent #3” in the advert was wearing a black shirt, compared to the white shirts of parents #1 and #2. Not that I am trying to read to much into it, but I think it suggests something subconscious, or maybe something that they are aware of. Just a hint or seed of the distant future.

    they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM

    I am more cynical – they are pursuing their own interests, and this requires a Russian state

    [MORE]
    – or something separate from the West, and there are patterns of history which make one hopeful that there will be or continue to be such a thing.

    Nobody wants to die for Putin’s secret bank accounts. Some organizing ideology is needed. Russian nationalism will work for now, but has deficiencies. Who does it bring into orbit? You need pan-Slavism, at least, if you are keeping one eye to the West. But how can one use it to criticize the opposite regime? Or to win defectors? How does it fit into long-term trends, about destabilizing the other?

    Funding BLM is not optimal tactics, as those people hate Russia (since they see it as the biggest white country) and would probably nuke it, if they could. It would make much more sense to fund Euro nationalist groups – I’m talking decades in the future, after Putin, if Russia continues on a separate path.

    Why try to rebuild a strong West? Well, realistically speaking it would be a hierarchy of power, with Russia as top dog. But that is frankly more enticing from my perspective than what seems to be the alternative.

    I really hope it doesn’t happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.

    if WW3 starts, it will be gays and trannies that start it. But I am hopeful that that won’t happen, and it will be a cold war. Cold war accelerationism seems desirable from my perspective.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    You need pan-Slavism, at least
     
    Apart maybe from Serbs, who'd be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia? The current Russian Federation doesn't have an ideology that is attractive to anybody outside the Russian world.

    But I am hopeful that that won’t happen, and it will be a cold war.
     
    I don't think NATO would intervene directly, if Russia invaded Ukraine, so WW3 is probably unlikely. I was just thinking of a major war in Ukraine herself, which would be bad enough.
    Don't know if a Cold War would be helpful to Western nationalists or not, on one hand it might cause the establishment to dial down the insanity somewhat, because they need white men with at least vaguely patriotic leanings. On the other hand I think it's quite possible that Western nationalists would be persecuted as internal enemies (which is of course already going on, and to some extent they're already represented as Putin's puppets etc.).

    Replies: @songbird

  897. @silviosilver
    @A123

    That red/blue graphic is simply top notch. Great find. (Or was it your own creation?)

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    Not mine. PowerLineBlog has their own round up.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/category/the-week-in-pictures

    The one for Christmas is excellent.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

     

  898. @silviosilver
    @A123

    That red/blue graphic is simply top notch. Great find. (Or was it your own creation?)

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    It is funny because red is basically the color that the media shafted the Republicans with, by choosing it for them, with its negative psychological connotations.

    But it is good in a Christmas or Chinese context.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @songbird

    Yes, you would think it's a negative, given the connotation of 'red', but speaking for myself, the interesting thing is that, as much as I have always reviled communism, I've never experienced any negative reaction to Republican redness. It's like my brain somehow compartmentalizes commie redness and Republican redness. So when I see red on an American map (as displayed on A123's graphic), I always instantly have a positive reaction to it, without even knowing what the issue is; I just immediately think, ok, those are good guys, now what are we actually talking about.

    I still feel that way even when I disagree with Republicans. Like I don't care about abortion or evangelicals or supporting Israel. I think they're misguided on these things, but I don't have an extreme reaction like "fucking scum" the way I do when I disagree with Democrats.

  899. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader


    Putin and his circle aren’t champions of the white race or whatever
     
    Pretty obvious. And yet, God works in mysterious ways.

    Note how "parent #3" in the advert was wearing a black shirt, compared to the white shirts of parents #1 and #2. Not that I am trying to read to much into it, but I think it suggests something subconscious, or maybe something that they are aware of. Just a hint or seed of the distant future.

    they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM
     
    I am more cynical - they are pursuing their own interests, and this requires a Russian state - or something separate from the West, and there are patterns of history which make one hopeful that there will be or continue to be such a thing.

    Nobody wants to die for Putin's secret bank accounts. Some organizing ideology is needed. Russian nationalism will work for now, but has deficiencies. Who does it bring into orbit? You need pan-Slavism, at least, if you are keeping one eye to the West. But how can one use it to criticize the opposite regime? Or to win defectors? How does it fit into long-term trends, about destabilizing the other?

    Funding BLM is not optimal tactics, as those people hate Russia (since they see it as the biggest white country) and would probably nuke it, if they could. It would make much more sense to fund Euro nationalist groups - I'm talking decades in the future, after Putin, if Russia continues on a separate path.

    Why try to rebuild a strong West? Well, realistically speaking it would be a hierarchy of power, with Russia as top dog. But that is frankly more enticing from my perspective than what seems to be the alternative.

    I really hope it doesn’t happen, a major war in Europe (likely to utterly poison relations between Russia and Western countries for decades) is the last thing I want.
     
    if WW3 starts, it will be gays and trannies that start it. But I am hopeful that that won't happen, and it will be a cold war. Cold war accelerationism seems desirable from my perspective.

    Replies: @German_reader

    You need pan-Slavism, at least

    Apart maybe from Serbs, who’d be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia? The current Russian Federation doesn’t have an ideology that is attractive to anybody outside the Russian world.

    But I am hopeful that that won’t happen, and it will be a cold war.

    I don’t think NATO would intervene directly, if Russia invaded Ukraine, so WW3 is probably unlikely. I was just thinking of a major war in Ukraine herself, which would be bad enough.
    Don’t know if a Cold War would be helpful to Western nationalists or not, on one hand it might cause the establishment to dial down the insanity somewhat, because they need white men with at least vaguely patriotic leanings. On the other hand I think it’s quite possible that Western nationalists would be persecuted as internal enemies (which is of course already going on, and to some extent they’re already represented as Putin’s puppets etc.).

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    Apart maybe from Serbs, who’d be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia?
     
    The Warsaw Pact had pretty low status in 1991. Even now, thirty years later, it is not wholly surprising that most of its member states are ensconced into an American ecosystem, rather than a Russian one.

    But what will America look like 50 years from now? Right now it has two state holidays celebrating blacks, and almost made George Floyd into a god/ had many of its cities on fire. From the inside, I can say that I've seen very significant decay since 1991. And that was 30 years, what about another 50?

    What about Western Europe, in 50 years?

    Pan-Slavism might be very attractive, by then. Provided Eastern Europe hasn't also been flooded with third-worlders. (And I'm not confident that it won't be. It only takes a short time, with modern logistics.)

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Svidomyatheart

  900. @songbird
    @silviosilver

    It is funny because red is basically the color that the media shafted the Republicans with, by choosing it for them, with its negative psychological connotations.

    But it is good in a Christmas or Chinese context.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Yes, you would think it’s a negative, given the connotation of ‘red’, but speaking for myself, the interesting thing is that, as much as I have always reviled communism, I’ve never experienced any negative reaction to Republican redness. It’s like my brain somehow compartmentalizes commie redness and Republican redness. So when I see red on an American map (as displayed on A123’s graphic), I always instantly have a positive reaction to it, without even knowing what the issue is; I just immediately think, ok, those are good guys, now what are we actually talking about.

    I still feel that way even when I disagree with Republicans. Like I don’t care about abortion or evangelicals or supporting Israel. I think they’re misguided on these things, but I don’t have an extreme reaction like “fucking scum” the way I do when I disagree with Democrats.

  901. @German_reader
    @songbird


    You need pan-Slavism, at least
     
    Apart maybe from Serbs, who'd be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia? The current Russian Federation doesn't have an ideology that is attractive to anybody outside the Russian world.

    But I am hopeful that that won’t happen, and it will be a cold war.
     
    I don't think NATO would intervene directly, if Russia invaded Ukraine, so WW3 is probably unlikely. I was just thinking of a major war in Ukraine herself, which would be bad enough.
    Don't know if a Cold War would be helpful to Western nationalists or not, on one hand it might cause the establishment to dial down the insanity somewhat, because they need white men with at least vaguely patriotic leanings. On the other hand I think it's quite possible that Western nationalists would be persecuted as internal enemies (which is of course already going on, and to some extent they're already represented as Putin's puppets etc.).

    Replies: @songbird

    Apart maybe from Serbs, who’d be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia?

    The Warsaw Pact had pretty low status in 1991. Even now, thirty years later, it is not wholly surprising that most of its member states are ensconced into an American ecosystem, rather than a Russian one.

    But what will America look like 50 years from now? Right now it has two state holidays celebrating blacks, and almost made George Floyd into a god/ had many of its cities on fire. From the inside, I can say that I’ve seen very significant decay since 1991. And that was 30 years, what about another 50?

    What about Western Europe, in 50 years?

    Pan-Slavism might be very attractive, by then. Provided Eastern Europe hasn’t also been flooded with third-worlders. (And I’m not confident that it won’t be. It only takes a short time, with modern logistics.)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @songbird

    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism.

    This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.

    Especially after the events of the last decade, panslavism in the postsoviet times, feels like expecting to embrace as brothers Armenians and Azerbaijanis, or Kyrgyzs to concord with Uzbeks, or Ossetians to embrace Georgia, Abkhazians to become allies with Georgia, to chill the relations between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, and reconciliation of Pridnestrovia with the Moldovans.

    Sadly I feel even Max Korzh can't fix this. Maybe only Isaiah 11:6 will save the situation.

    The ideal solution to the nationalism problems, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, could have been polite and respectful divorce, which can be preferable to the constant arguing between nationalities we experience today.

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    , @Svidomyatheart
    @songbird

    Maybe Pan-Turkism of Pan-Angloism works(5 eyes) but Pan-Slavism doesn't work. Period. Has been said multiple times by other slavs on here as well like like Epgion, Thetotallyanonymous, etc

    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia and you have Croats(who are the Turks historic enemies) getting pissed. Greeks too.

    "Slavic unity" was held by a barrel of a gun and various famines.


    How do you "ally" with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.


    I mean there could possibly be 80 million Ukrainians. And sure I could fantasize about the 80 million Ukrainians which would theoretically be here if not for Russians ..that is if Ukraine's tfr transitioned like in all normal countries and gradually declined. But Russians and their Lenin and more specifically Stalin basically introduced modernity by force and all the ills of it and pretty much instantly cratered the tfr in 1-2 generations.. I mean my greatgreatgrandma had 13 kids..yes 13.

    You know I thought about this for some time and I could whine and ponder about it but ...they're gone and we lost that land.There is nothing else to be done. All one can do is pickup the pieces and try to rebuild with what we have left.

    But instead once again we have Russians salivating and getting ready for war I, I know what these Russians are up to... they want to repeat what they started in 1917. And a number of them openly profess already even on here.

    Except now instead of Latvians, Chinese and Jews they're using Buryats and Chechens as executioners … so far the latter are much less lethal...

    Replies: @songbird, @LatW

  902. @Mikel
    @Dmitry

    Thanks for your thoughts on Ukraine. Perhaps you are right that Ukraine is just similar to Russia without its vast natural resources. However, it is striking to see Ukraine ranking closer to countries far away of its cultural sphere than to its neighbors in economic matters. Last time I checked, Russia's per capita GDP was about 3 times larger.



    when there is such mess, then you should be forced to question the wisdom of events which preceded it even where they were sources of pride
     
    I guess somebody was going to try the Marxist ideas sooner or later and it just happened to be Russia. We wouldn't know how a socialist economy with no private capital works in practice if you guys hadn't tried it.

    Perhaps you are unaware of how influential the USSR was in the world. Lots of people in Western countries looked at the Soviet and Eastern European examples with admiration. Many believed that it was a matter of time until communism took over the entire world, including some relatives of mine. I remember them discussing at family gatherings if the Soviet or the Yugoslav system was better. My father, a businessman who would lose his factory if any of them was implemented, dismissed their ideas but they were certainly part of the public discourse. A cousin of mine and her husband, both doctors, visited East Germany and came back with a positive impression... barely a year before the Berlin Wall fell down.

    Shortly after the Iron Curtain fell I traveled to Eastern Europe. I was very curious to finally find out what these countries were like in real life. I spent most of the time in Poland but visited some neighboring countries too.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Western countries looked at the Soviet and Eastern European examples with admiration

    And justifiably, at least by the 1960s there are so many overachievements to impress the world public.

    The world’s most powerful army that defeated fascism, the atomic energy, the country which produces human’s first exit from planet, much of the world’s best classical music performers, the winners of most Olympic medals, the most famous living or recently dead classical music composers (Shostakovich, Prokofiev), one of the greatest cinemas, a factory of many great scientists and Nobel prizes, all the chess champions, and perhaps the most beautiful television productions.

    Also there were domestic successes far more than you could have predicted, in terms of living standards of the population, life expectancy was at a Western level, an education level higher than some Western countries, incredibly rapid urban and housing development, great civil engineering achievements, full employment, relative illusion (if not exactly real) of equality.

    Development economists and historians were surprised by the world’s fastest industrialization from Europe’s most backward region, from the plough to atomic weapons. Subjectively, many or most people were happy with the society, if you know the people who lived then.

    This isn’t to condone the politics of the Russian Empire and USSR, which latter has been far more vulnerable (including to oil price) than even any critics imagined, dissolves to mutual hatred and violence between the constituent nationalities, and which its worst properties (e.g. dictatorship masked with propaganda, hierarchical police state, mass censorship, mass imprisonment, etc), continue to exist from Turkmenistan to Belarus.

    Ukraine is just similar to Russia without its vast natural

    Yes explanation for the income difference. Although Russia is not homogenous in terms of income. There are regions in the Russian Federation (including some of the wealthiest in terms of resource production) which have the same income as Ukraine, and other region with far higher income (destinations for the wealth).

    Ukraine had reliance in mostly industries which could work in a Soviet context, but not in a postsoviet context. While in Russia “big money” is commodities industries (oil, gas, aluminum, diamonds, copper, zinc), which can be booming industries in the postsoviet context, and internationally competitive. Companies like Alrosa, Rusal, Nornickel, Severstal, Gazprom dominate the world in their sectors. They are often world leaders for those industries.

    But for Ukraine, I’m not sure there was a possibility for them to produce Rusal or Alrosa, and certainly not for Rosneft or Lukoil.

    It’s not to condone the disaster of Ukraine, or say they couldn’t have been differently than Moldova or Belarus. Estonia was only 30 years ago in the Soviet Union, and now many of their indicators seem to be like any North Western capitalist country (although with only their tiny population).

  903. @songbird
    @German_reader


    Apart maybe from Serbs, who’d be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia?
     
    The Warsaw Pact had pretty low status in 1991. Even now, thirty years later, it is not wholly surprising that most of its member states are ensconced into an American ecosystem, rather than a Russian one.

    But what will America look like 50 years from now? Right now it has two state holidays celebrating blacks, and almost made George Floyd into a god/ had many of its cities on fire. From the inside, I can say that I've seen very significant decay since 1991. And that was 30 years, what about another 50?

    What about Western Europe, in 50 years?

    Pan-Slavism might be very attractive, by then. Provided Eastern Europe hasn't also been flooded with third-worlders. (And I'm not confident that it won't be. It only takes a short time, with modern logistics.)

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Svidomyatheart

    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism.

    This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.

    Especially after the events of the last decade, panslavism in the postsoviet times, feels like expecting to embrace as brothers Armenians and Azerbaijanis, or Kyrgyzs to concord with Uzbeks, or Ossetians to embrace Georgia, Abkhazians to become allies with Georgia, to chill the relations between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, and reconciliation of Pridnestrovia with the Moldovans.

    Sadly I feel even Max Korzh can’t fix this. Maybe only Isaiah 11:6 will save the situation.

    The ideal solution to the nationalism problems, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, could have been polite and respectful divorce, which can be preferable to the constant arguing between nationalities we experience today.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Dmitry


    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism.
     
    My impression was that the USSR was really antinational, which I would have supposed would have included a stance against over-arching ethnic groups.

    My idea is that pan-Slavism would require strong outreach and propaganda efforts. Probably the czar did not have the tools, and the communists did not want to try to undertake the project.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism...This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.
     
    Or perhaps, Putin's famous lament that the collapse of the Soviet Union really was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century has some merit, at least from a world security point of view?

    Replies: @Dmitry

  904. @LatW
    @Yellowface Anon


    What has Lithuania done to exceed Estonia slightly in GDP per capita?
     
    They had recently made some significant investments in infrastructure which helped the local businesses and manufacturers that were able to increase exports. It looks like they might have a better age structure, with a higher proportion of people active in the labor force, and they were able to increase productivity. On top of that, there's been recent improvement in institutional quality.

    I would also say that Lithuanians are more entrepreneurial than Estonians (and Latvians), in my experience they have a somewhat more aggressive business approach (in a good way). For example, Lithuanian owned retail chains have been able to spread regionally and appropriate a bigger market share where they have to compete quite fiercely with Scandinavian chains. And now possibly with a Russian chain that has recently showed up on the scene. Basically, they have better group organizational skills.

    As to Estonia, there is a metric out there called "Human Development Index (HDI)" and they score pretty well on that one, somewhere on the level of Czech Republic.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Lithuanians are more entrepreneurial

    From reading the OECD website, I was receiving a bit more optimism for Estonia.

    Lithuania has some problem of income inquality, which is perhaps an inevitable side of a very “neoliberal” policy. They also say “high the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution”.

    In the longer report, they were also a little worried about corruption of the state owned companies in Lithuania.

    They were painting these pictures on the OECD website for their Lithuania report.


    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/Lithuania-country-note-going-for-growth-2021.pdf

    For their Estonia report, they were giving the slightly better report for income inequality. “Inequality is on part with advanced economies”. And “a very low proportion of the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution”.

    This is their picture about Estonia.
    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/Estonia-country-note-going-for-growth-2021.pdf

    But they talk about regional inequality, with “north-east of the country, where unemployment and poverty rates are high”.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    OECD website for their Lithuania report
     
    Well, the report is saying that both productivity and employment have been going up. Another thing I've heard is that Lithuanian tax system is structured in a way that leaves more money in peoples' hands thus they can re-invest it. Wage growth is very high in all three.
  905. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism.

    This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.

    Especially after the events of the last decade, panslavism in the postsoviet times, feels like expecting to embrace as brothers Armenians and Azerbaijanis, or Kyrgyzs to concord with Uzbeks, or Ossetians to embrace Georgia, Abkhazians to become allies with Georgia, to chill the relations between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, and reconciliation of Pridnestrovia with the Moldovans.

    Sadly I feel even Max Korzh can't fix this. Maybe only Isaiah 11:6 will save the situation.

    The ideal solution to the nationalism problems, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, could have been polite and respectful divorce, which can be preferable to the constant arguing between nationalities we experience today.

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism.

    My impression was that the USSR was really antinational, which I would have supposed would have included a stance against over-arching ethnic groups.

    My idea is that pan-Slavism would require strong outreach and propaganda efforts. Probably the czar did not have the tools, and the communists did not want to try to undertake the project.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @songbird

    In the 19th century panslavism was an external project for creating unsettlement in the rival empires. This is the same as panturkism used by the Ottomon Empire, against the Russian Empire. You use it as a tool to try to create rebellions against the rulers in the rival empire.

    In the 20th century, power projection policy of panslavism was replaced with Marxism-Leninism tool, which was more effective, and a software which could be used to try to create rebellion against rival rulers across wider areas, while panslavism was only effective in the European near abroad.

    But I'm talking not about the ideological weapon of the 19th century, but the more utopian reality of a panslavism, which was realized (at least in external appearance) by the USSR in the second half of the 20th century, as well as some extent of panturkism and pancaucasianism.

    In the second half of the 20th century, there was an external appearance of unparalleled peace and unity between slavic nationalities even including those of Warsaw Pact countries, although broken by some events like Prague Spring , 1968. There are an unprecedented slavic unity. .

    But with the collapse of the Soviet Union, there has been an unparalleled nationalism and mutual enmity across new borders of the postsoviet space. This is like a "whipsaw movement" in finance. So the USSR had presented an appearance of panslavism, but the postsoviet reaction has been of an intensified nationalist fighting, that worse than dismantles the preceding peace.

    In the 1990s, this nationalist whipsaw was more visible between Armenians vs Azerbaijans, Ossetians vs Georgians, Kyrgyzs vs Uzbeks. But the 2010s has been like a spread of this epidemic, has even carried to the largest nationalities of the USSR - Ukrainians vs Russians. The levels of the enmity has felt deeper each year, and can seem very surprising , but probably shouldn't be.

    That's the 2010s, have shown that even the largest, core nationalities of the USSR, could not be immune to these conflicts which you could have optimistically hoped would be restricted village fights in Nagorno-Karabakh. 2010s has been very pessimistic in this sense, as you might have hoped these postsoviet conflicts would be diminishing, but rather they spread to the core nationalities.

  906. @songbird
    @Dmitry


    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism.
     
    My impression was that the USSR was really antinational, which I would have supposed would have included a stance against over-arching ethnic groups.

    My idea is that pan-Slavism would require strong outreach and propaganda efforts. Probably the czar did not have the tools, and the communists did not want to try to undertake the project.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    In the 19th century panslavism was an external project for creating unsettlement in the rival empires. This is the same as panturkism used by the Ottomon Empire, against the Russian Empire. You use it as a tool to try to create rebellions against the rulers in the rival empire.

    In the 20th century, power projection policy of panslavism was replaced with Marxism-Leninism tool, which was more effective, and a software which could be used to try to create rebellion against rival rulers across wider areas, while panslavism was only effective in the European near abroad.

    But I’m talking not about the ideological weapon of the 19th century, but the more utopian reality of a panslavism, which was realized (at least in external appearance) by the USSR in the second half of the 20th century, as well as some extent of panturkism and pancaucasianism.

    In the second half of the 20th century, there was an external appearance of unparalleled peace and unity between slavic nationalities even including those of Warsaw Pact countries, although broken by some events like Prague Spring , 1968. There are an unprecedented slavic unity. .

    But with the collapse of the Soviet Union, there has been an unparalleled nationalism and mutual enmity across new borders of the postsoviet space. This is like a “whipsaw movement” in finance. So the USSR had presented an appearance of panslavism, but the postsoviet reaction has been of an intensified nationalist fighting, that worse than dismantles the preceding peace.

    In the 1990s, this nationalist whipsaw was more visible between Armenians vs Azerbaijans, Ossetians vs Georgians, Kyrgyzs vs Uzbeks. But the 2010s has been like a spread of this epidemic, has even carried to the largest nationalities of the USSR – Ukrainians vs Russians. The levels of the enmity has felt deeper each year, and can seem very surprising , but probably shouldn’t be.

    That’s the 2010s, have shown that even the largest, core nationalities of the USSR, could not be immune to these conflicts which you could have optimistically hoped would be restricted village fights in Nagorno-Karabakh. 2010s has been very pessimistic in this sense, as you might have hoped these postsoviet conflicts would be diminishing, but rather they spread to the core nationalities.

    • Thanks: songbird
  907. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Lithuanians are more entrepreneurial

     

    From reading the OECD website, I was receiving a bit more optimism for Estonia.

    Lithuania has some problem of income inquality, which is perhaps an inevitable side of a very "neoliberal" policy. They also say "high the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution".

    In the longer report, they were also a little worried about corruption of the state owned companies in Lithuania.

    They were painting these pictures on the OECD website for their Lithuania report.

    https://i.imgur.com/NQOFPoA.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/BTDdZXp.jpg

    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/Lithuania-country-note-going-for-growth-2021.pdf

    For their Estonia report, they were giving the slightly better report for income inequality. "Inequality is on part with advanced economies". And "a very low proportion of the population is exposed to harmful levels of air pollution".

    This is their picture about Estonia.
    https://i.imgur.com/jtfblfo.jpg
    https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/Estonia-country-note-going-for-growth-2021.pdf

    But they talk about regional inequality, with "north-east of the country, where unemployment and poverty rates are high".

    Replies: @LatW

    OECD website for their Lithuania report

    Well, the report is saying that both productivity and employment have been going up. Another thing I’ve heard is that Lithuanian tax system is structured in a way that leaves more money in peoples’ hands thus they can re-invest it. Wage growth is very high in all three.

  908. @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    home in California, very similar in size and design, that she sold for $500,000, and that was in 2008 almost fourteen years ago. Today, just accounting for inflation alone, that home would probably be worth what, $750,000
     
    Surely it would should be more safe financially, to have the house in California. Or she could sell, and move those $750,000 to diverse investments within the USA.

    With $750,000 of assets, it's probably enough money to live as an artist in Mexico, without needing to invest any money in Mexico?

    -

    But probably she is more intelligent than me. It seems like that city is popular with American tourists, so it is perhaps some kind of ideal real estate where she can exhibit art and have tourists visiting the gallery.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdk1e-dGlCc

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    But probably she is more intelligent than me. It seems like that city is popular with American tourists, so it is perhaps some kind of ideal real estate where she can exhibit art and have tourists visiting the gallery.

    I doubt that she’s more intelligent than you are, but being an artist like you point out, her chances of doing business in this touristy mecca are probably greatly enhanced. It looks like a really charming place to visit, only 60 miles from Mexico city that also has many of its own places to visit and see. Doing a Google search, I spotted several camping/hot mineral spas nearby that also looked inviting and great places to relax and get away from it all.

  909. sher singh says:
    @iffen
    @sher singh

    According to the tenets of your religion, is it not dishonorable to use a crossbow instead of a blade?

    Replies: @sher singh

    “They are, without any exception, the most insolent and worthless race of people in all India. They are religious fanatics, and acknowledge no ruler and no laws but their own; think nothing of robbery or even murder, should they happen to be in the humour for it. They move about constantly, armed to the teeth, and it is not an uncommon thing to see them riding about with a drawn sword in each hand, two more in their belt, a matchlock at their back, and three or four pair of quoits fastened round their turbans.”

    -Sir Lepel Griffin, Ranjit Singh (London: Clarendon Press 1892)

  910. @Barbarossa
    @Thulean Friend

    Even in the era of the tightest Church control of marriage, there were still ways, though tightly constrained, to dissolve toxic marriages.

    It seems like the modern era has the perfect storm of the unrealistic idealized RomCom relationship coupled with very easy divorce. It all comes back to the cult of self optimization which perpetually sees the grass as greener elsewhere, ignoring that an imperfect relationship can still be very good.

    In the same vein as your own examples from extended family, my parents are in many ways very incompatible people who have certainly grown to have somewhat separate lives. They never got divorced and never will, a fact which I am deeply grateful for. When I think back to my own tumultous early years of marriage, I don't think it would have been likely to work if not for the idealism I had, much of which came from a non-divorced upbringing. So, my parents' terribly imperfect, yet intact, marriage had a pro-social outcome for me, which in turn provides that for my kids.

    Interestingly, prostitution was really ignored by medival Christianity. Aquinas himself said "Prostitution is like a sewer in a palace. Take away the sewer and you will fill the palace with pollution." So, I think that historical Christianity did walk an interesting line of enforced norms along with accomodations to human weakness.

    Personally, I feel as though prostitution is probably less degrading morally and spiritually than the current glut of internet porn addiction. At least the frequenting of prostitutes has an inescapable physicality to it, and though degraded, is still the genuine act. Porn addiction seems to completely enervate men who rely on it. It seems a very sad dynamic.


    toleration ought not to be confused with veneration.
     
    This can't be said enough, as it gets turned on it's head too often in our modern world. Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It's actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    Replies: @AP, @Thulean Friend, @Pericles

    Especially in reference to the LGBT crowd. It’s actually possible to not stone gays to death while also promoting pro-social role models of functional families!

    Remains to be seen, I’d say.

    Thinking back, before homosexuals became the most awesome thing ever, they used to complain online about ‘rolling gays’, that is them getting beaten up. This seemed terribly unfair to the naive me at the time, but now it seems far more likely that these pillars of society got caught with their disgusting habits in a public convenience, in the bushes of a public park, at the university library, etc. So the bullying chads were really being prosocial in showing the perverts the error of their ways.

    (Note that part of their ‘getting off’ is in transgressing social norms. As expected from this observation, we have seen more and more explicit behavior over the years, and can furthermore expect things to get worse.)

  911. @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    they’re pursuing what they perceive as Russian state interests (and if they think it helps them, they’d probably also sponsor BLM).
     
    Then by the same logic they probably also sponsor WN if they thought it would help their interests. And WN of course is much more likely to be of use to them than BLM. BLM values would want to see Russia "diversified" (ie homosexualized, islamified and negrofuxxated), whereas WN would be more than content to leave them alone.

    Same thing with China. Can their leadership seriously be so retarded as to not understand that WNs would be perfectly content to see China rule over all east Asia if it meant that WNs could have their white ethnostate? If you want America to back the fuck off and give you free rein in east Asia, how can there be any serious doubt that backing WN would be in Chinese state interests? The only reason I can think of is racial butthurt - they're too insulted or threatened by WNs considering whites "superior" to Chinese. (Obviously not superior in IQ.)

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart

    I think the Chinese are biding their time and correctly realize that WNs are too much of a minority to even bother with and have no political weight whatsoever. Not worth the effort to support and too dangerous because the West is too unpredictable and could cause a nuclear war or something.

    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.

    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.

    America and the American right itself has a White People Problem. and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos. And these very whites want to turn Europe into America. White≠European.

    New worlders and their assorted shock troops with their neoliberalism or libertarian culture seek to destroy and devour the old world just as before…nothing changes.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart

    Actual WNs are too insignificant and too disorganized to bother with, certainly. But the Chinese could simply support the essentials of the WN narrative, which is that whites are oppressed and being Great Replaced. ("White people, your warmongering governments intend to you use as cannon fodder at the very same time they deny you your rights and treat as you as second class citizens.") It would require serious repetition of that message, but countless millions of whites' eyes would be opened.


    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.
     
    Lol, not even close.

    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.
     
    That is bullshit, and not even Karlin's own position.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Svidomyatheart, @Svidomyatheart

    , @German_reader
    @Svidomyatheart


    and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos.
     
    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren't white. Frankly, I've always felt Karlin's thesis about "CRT as white supremacy" was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies (understandable given current geopolitical tensions).
    However, it's of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Svidomyatheart

  912. @songbird
    @German_reader


    Apart maybe from Serbs, who’d be interested in a pan-Slavism led by Russia?
     
    The Warsaw Pact had pretty low status in 1991. Even now, thirty years later, it is not wholly surprising that most of its member states are ensconced into an American ecosystem, rather than a Russian one.

    But what will America look like 50 years from now? Right now it has two state holidays celebrating blacks, and almost made George Floyd into a god/ had many of its cities on fire. From the inside, I can say that I've seen very significant decay since 1991. And that was 30 years, what about another 50?

    What about Western Europe, in 50 years?

    Pan-Slavism might be very attractive, by then. Provided Eastern Europe hasn't also been flooded with third-worlders. (And I'm not confident that it won't be. It only takes a short time, with modern logistics.)

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Svidomyatheart

    Maybe Pan-Turkism of Pan-Angloism works(5 eyes) but Pan-Slavism doesn’t work. Period. Has been said multiple times by other slavs on here as well like like Epgion, Thetotallyanonymous, etc

    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia and you have Croats(who are the Turks historic enemies) getting pissed. Greeks too.

    “Slavic unity” was held by a barrel of a gun and various famines.

    How do you “ally” with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.

    I mean there could possibly be 80 million Ukrainians. And sure I could fantasize about the 80 million Ukrainians which would theoretically be here if not for Russians ..that is if Ukraine’s tfr transitioned like in all normal countries and gradually declined. But Russians and their Lenin and more specifically Stalin basically introduced modernity by force and all the ills of it and pretty much instantly cratered the tfr in 1-2 generations.. I mean my greatgreatgrandma had 13 kids..yes 13.

    You know I thought about this for some time and I could whine and ponder about it but …they’re gone and we lost that land.There is nothing else to be done. All one can do is pickup the pieces and try to rebuild with what we have left.

    But instead once again we have Russians salivating and getting ready for war I, I know what these Russians are up to… they want to repeat what they started in 1917. And a number of them openly profess already even on here.

    Except now instead of Latvians, Chinese and Jews they’re using Buryats and Chechens as executioners … so far the latter are much less lethal…

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Svidomyatheart


    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia
     
    I wonder how much of that is organic to Poland and how much merely because they have been pulled into America's orbit, which, to a degree, includes Turkey.

    How do you “ally” with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.
     
    In a way, this would be easy to write off as not being a Russian project (majority of the Communist party in the '30s not Russian, Stalin was basically afraid to speak on the radio because he sounded really not Russian.), but I suppose it would be very dangerous too, to name who was the majority of the communist party.

    The real difficulty, IMO, is the current troubles. It is hard to bury the hatchet with fresh memories. And that is a shame because, from my perspective, being pulled into America's orbit is worse than going through a war - at least, it seems to be, in the long term.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @LatW
    @Svidomyatheart


    How do you “ally” with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.
     
    But that's only part of the issue, regardless of how horrible it was. The problem is not the past, but the present. Everything that is coming out of their main TV channels today (and for the last decades). The hostility is just through the roof. And it has nothing to do with the past, but very much about how they're feeling at present. There are probably ways to calm them down a little, but not fully.

    How do you “ally”
     
    You ally with the small ethnonationalist chunk. Or those regular people who are decent in person (there are quite a few because day to day communication doesn't fully stop).

    I mean there could possibly be 80 million Ukrainians.
     
    Yes, there could be, imagine many more talented and beautiful people. I heard that at some point in antiquity the number of Russians and Ukrainians was almost equal. Or much closer than now.

    they’re using Buryats and Chechens as executioners … so far the latter are much less lethal…
     
    I hate to bring this to you, but I heard rumors the other day that they're recruiting for the military companies, and this time they're aiming for more seasoned men, not those volunteers without much experience that came in 2014. The Ukrainian side is well aware of this and they're prepared.
  913. Maybe Ukraine’s major problem is the Newcastle/Appalachia effect.

  914. @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    When you catch your breath, c'mon back! Here are a few political cartoons to help fill your Christmas stocking:

    https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz122421dAPR20211224124506.jpg
    The character Jimmy Stewart played in a “Wonderful Life” concluded his life was worth saving and not taking the plunge off the bridge. Ukrainians, and many Russians, would rejoice if Putin, after re-assessing his life, would take the leap!

    https://www.enterprise-journal.com/sites/default/files/field/image/316839_image.jpg
    Why won’t Biden be more critical of Xi Jinping and China? Is it because of the Biden Family Syndicate and its front man Hunter Biden? Or is it because the cognizant impaired Biden really sees no evil and feels no threat to America from China? Or is it because global corporations in China either out of fear or conviction are influencing Biden? Or is it because Biden hates our Constitutional restrictions on his presidential power and is envious of Xi Jinping’s near dictatorial powers?

    https://www.enterprise-journal.com/sites/default/files/field/image/316840_image.jpg
    The mainstream media will go into contortions to protect Biden from his failings but attack any criticism of him.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Re:

    He brings up certain facts that some don’t like to be known.

  915. @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    I think the Chinese are biding their time and correctly realize that WNs are too much of a minority to even bother with and have no political weight whatsoever. Not worth the effort to support and too dangerous because the West is too unpredictable and could cause a nuclear war or something.

    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.


    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.

    America and the American right itself has a White People Problem. and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos. And these very whites want to turn Europe into America. White≠European.

    New worlders and their assorted shock troops with their neoliberalism or libertarian culture seek to destroy and devour the old world just as before...nothing changes.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @German_reader

    Actual WNs are too insignificant and too disorganized to bother with, certainly. But the Chinese could simply support the essentials of the WN narrative, which is that whites are oppressed and being Great Replaced. (“White people, your warmongering governments intend to you use as cannon fodder at the very same time they deny you your rights and treat as you as second class citizens.”) It would require serious repetition of that message, but countless millions of whites’ eyes would be opened.

    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.

    Lol, not even close.

    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.

    That is bullshit, and not even Karlin’s own position.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @silviosilver


    that BLM is a wholly white psyop.
     
    I'd be curious on why you think this statement is bullshit? I wouldn't word it as strongly as Svidomyatheart but I think there is an element of truth there.

    My own perception is that a great many blacks are fairly indifferent to BLM or go along for basically opportunistic reasons (gibs). It's worth noting that the entire crop of current black "intellectuals" comes straight from the prestigious and entitled institutions and can hardly be considered a grassroots movement.
    The significant thing about BLM is that it seeks to bundle black identity with the wider "woke" identity politics, especially around LGBT+. Blacks have been historically the least accepting of gender ideology which is an inconvenient reality for the supposedly model minority. BLM seems to be an engineered push to corral blacks into "right thinking" on the issue.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    , @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Blacks have no political power without their masters and the US being a black ethnostate would collapse if whites began to self segregate and limit gibs. Which isnt happening, America chose the Empire path long ago and last chance to resist that was when your granddad was marched under bayonets for forceful integration.

    Worshipping black people has been a yank religion for centuries which goes far back. New England preachers from the 1600s already talked about the nobility of the slave and the Indian.


    Look US has a white people problem. If it didn't, Whiteoids would have a cohesive bloc that would act almost entirely in unison in a multiracial state like the USA, which is not happening time soon.
    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What's so hard to understand?

    https://i.imgur.com/YL89CZM.png


    I dont really like using memes and obscure twitter posts but my deficient English makes it so its easier to get my point across. There is a reason why these retarded memes exist.

    https://i.imgur.com/T39kDhr.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/LpFPrX0.png

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their "pets" and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own "children."

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Shortsword, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    , @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Your problem is you think all whites are on the same team. When like 30% of whites aready to immolate for PoC you know America has a problem. Karlin specifically said that the only thing one can get out of WNs is use them for the state and the discard them.

    Have you read Thomas777?
    Probably the only American nationalist worth posting about. Hes got a soft spot for Africans just as any good New Worlder and Islam which I find odd(probably because he hasnt been around Muslims much and hes pissed that his country is hijacked and used by ethnics)

    Here, its bascially a collection of posts you dont have to go to shitty Stormfronts, Counter-Currents , or Vanguard News Network, The Phroa and the like.

    https://wiki.chadnet.org/files/thomas777-greatest-poasts.pdf


    its got everything utu likes too.Very easily read only 300 or so pages, a competent reader should finish it in a couple of hours.

    "I have long felt that White people are also a nihilistic, self-loathing lot that collectively suffers froma real existential neurosis. Its almost as if there is an ever-present, memetical subtext within Whitesocieties that we are all "fallen" to such a degree and so responsible for the trials and tribulations of"opressed" peoples that rape, murder, political and social dispossession are fitting punishments that
    should be welcomed
    "

    "White peoples have a cultural problem, a theological problem, and a political problem - and only
    addressing one of these things to the exclusion of the other(s) isn’t really constructive
    "

    Replies: @silviosilver

  916. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism.

    This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.

    Especially after the events of the last decade, panslavism in the postsoviet times, feels like expecting to embrace as brothers Armenians and Azerbaijanis, or Kyrgyzs to concord with Uzbeks, or Ossetians to embrace Georgia, Abkhazians to become allies with Georgia, to chill the relations between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, and reconciliation of Pridnestrovia with the Moldovans.

    Sadly I feel even Max Korzh can't fix this. Maybe only Isaiah 11:6 will save the situation.

    The ideal solution to the nationalism problems, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, could have been polite and respectful divorce, which can be preferable to the constant arguing between nationalities we experience today.

    Replies: @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism…This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.

    Or perhaps, Putin’s famous lament that the collapse of the Soviet Union really was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century has some merit, at least from a world security point of view?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Mr. Hack


    greatest geopolitical catastrophe
     
    It is not the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century. (It is like a small inconvenience, compared to the First World War and Second World War).

    But its negative effects are continuing, and more long term and difficult to resolve than probably most peoples' predictions at the time, who perhaps would not expect the problems to be almost intensifying after three decades.

    For example, in 2020, the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, was possibly most violent war in the world in that particular month (October 2020). And already 30 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, that former "fraternal peoples" are still dying for small differences in borders which resulted from this event.

  917. @Svidomyatheart
    @songbird

    Maybe Pan-Turkism of Pan-Angloism works(5 eyes) but Pan-Slavism doesn't work. Period. Has been said multiple times by other slavs on here as well like like Epgion, Thetotallyanonymous, etc

    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia and you have Croats(who are the Turks historic enemies) getting pissed. Greeks too.

    "Slavic unity" was held by a barrel of a gun and various famines.


    How do you "ally" with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.


    I mean there could possibly be 80 million Ukrainians. And sure I could fantasize about the 80 million Ukrainians which would theoretically be here if not for Russians ..that is if Ukraine's tfr transitioned like in all normal countries and gradually declined. But Russians and their Lenin and more specifically Stalin basically introduced modernity by force and all the ills of it and pretty much instantly cratered the tfr in 1-2 generations.. I mean my greatgreatgrandma had 13 kids..yes 13.

    You know I thought about this for some time and I could whine and ponder about it but ...they're gone and we lost that land.There is nothing else to be done. All one can do is pickup the pieces and try to rebuild with what we have left.

    But instead once again we have Russians salivating and getting ready for war I, I know what these Russians are up to... they want to repeat what they started in 1917. And a number of them openly profess already even on here.

    Except now instead of Latvians, Chinese and Jews they're using Buryats and Chechens as executioners … so far the latter are much less lethal...

    Replies: @songbird, @LatW

    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia

    I wonder how much of that is organic to Poland and how much merely because they have been pulled into America’s orbit, which, to a degree, includes Turkey.

    How do you “ally” with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.

    In a way, this would be easy to write off as not being a Russian project (majority of the Communist party in the ’30s not Russian, Stalin was basically afraid to speak on the radio because he sounded really not Russian.), but I suppose it would be very dangerous too, to name who was the majority of the communist party.

    The real difficulty, IMO, is the current troubles. It is hard to bury the hatchet with fresh memories. And that is a shame because, from my perspective, being pulled into America’s orbit is worse than going through a war – at least, it seems to be, in the long term.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    Stalin was basically afraid to speak on the radio because he sounded really not Russian.
     
    Well, he did make speeches in the 30s and videos in the 40s. The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle. It seems the issue with the radio speeches was that he didn't enunciate clearly, regardless of the accent. And, btw, his Russian was very literate and almost above normal in terms of expression.

    Beria, too, spoke with a Caucasian accent and he was the head of NKVD for quite a long time (he was active roughly from late 1920s all the way to 1953, he was actually executed during Christmas of 1953). These guys didn't have to shy away from anything.


    from my perspective, being pulled into America’s orbit is worse than going through a war
     
    If Biden throws Ukraine under the bus in these upcoming talks and, given that the assistance to Ukraine will be only partial anyway (weapons support, et al), then Ukraine doesn't really owe the US that much so Ukraine won't need to jump through the US's hoops. They can keep receiving some minimal assistance and still go their own way (the way it's been done with various types of mujahideen).

    Replies: @German_reader

  918. @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart

    Actual WNs are too insignificant and too disorganized to bother with, certainly. But the Chinese could simply support the essentials of the WN narrative, which is that whites are oppressed and being Great Replaced. ("White people, your warmongering governments intend to you use as cannon fodder at the very same time they deny you your rights and treat as you as second class citizens.") It would require serious repetition of that message, but countless millions of whites' eyes would be opened.


    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.
     
    Lol, not even close.

    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.
     
    That is bullshit, and not even Karlin's own position.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Svidomyatheart, @Svidomyatheart

    that BLM is a wholly white psyop.

    I’d be curious on why you think this statement is bullshit? I wouldn’t word it as strongly as Svidomyatheart but I think there is an element of truth there.

    My own perception is that a great many blacks are fairly indifferent to BLM or go along for basically opportunistic reasons (gibs). It’s worth noting that the entire crop of current black “intellectuals” comes straight from the prestigious and entitled institutions and can hardly be considered a grassroots movement.
    The significant thing about BLM is that it seeks to bundle black identity with the wider “woke” identity politics, especially around LGBT+. Blacks have been historically the least accepting of gender ideology which is an inconvenient reality for the supposedly model minority. BLM seems to be an engineered push to corral blacks into “right thinking” on the issue.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Barbarossa


    I’d be curious on why you think this statement is bullshit? I wouldn’t word it as strongly as Svidomyatheart but I think there is an element of truth there.
     
    Call me pedantic, but when I come across the word "wholly," I assume the author chose it deliberately because he wanted to convey the literal meaning of that word, which is not "mostly" or "partly," but "entirely." It's just obvious that BLM is not a wholly white phenomenon.

    That said, of course I agree there is "element of truth," in the sense that there is heavy white involvement (indeed, investment) in BLM, and that BLM would be a shadow of itself without it.
  919. German_reader says:
    @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    I think the Chinese are biding their time and correctly realize that WNs are too much of a minority to even bother with and have no political weight whatsoever. Not worth the effort to support and too dangerous because the West is too unpredictable and could cause a nuclear war or something.

    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.


    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.

    America and the American right itself has a White People Problem. and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos. And these very whites want to turn Europe into America. White≠European.

    New worlders and their assorted shock troops with their neoliberalism or libertarian culture seek to destroy and devour the old world just as before...nothing changes.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @German_reader

    and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos.

    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren’t white. Frankly, I’ve always felt Karlin’s thesis about “CRT as white supremacy” was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies (understandable given current geopolitical tensions).
    However, it’s of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    Frankly, I’ve always felt Karlin’s thesis about “CRT as white supremacy” was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies
     
    It was an exceedingly dumb take, but I'm not so sure it was a trollish take. Karlin's enough of a prideful IQ fetishist that there's every chance he wholeheartedly believed it; it was enough that the idea emanated from his very own big brain for it to be true, evidence and logic be damned.

    The most minimal definition of "white supremacy"should be that something benefits whites more than it benefits blacks, or some subset of whites more than a comparable subset of blacks. But there's no evidence that CRT/BLM meets even this bare-bones definition, let alone a more reasonable, "traditional" definition of white supremacy.

    If I were of a particularly devious cast of mind, I might spread the rumor that this is the real reason Karlin quit Unz. His pride would not allow him to admit he was wrong, yet the clear evidence that he was wrong dangled over his head like the sword of Damocles. Unable to take the heat, he chose to vacate the kitchen. Of course, I am not so devious, so I would never attempt to spread such a rumor.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @German_reader


    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren’t white.
     
    The NAACP and ACLU have been Jewish controlled and financed from Day 0. The Negro civil rights movement in the United States has always been a Jewish project. It is K. McDonald and E. Michael Jones' Exhibit A. BLM is not funded by collecting coins in coffee cans at Black Panther barbeques.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Svidomyatheart
    @German_reader


    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren’t white.
    However, it’s of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

     

    You know this well yourself, those minorities would be nothing without white patronage.

    https://i.imgur.com/iS5Wlkr.png

    by Michael Anton who is a conservative

    https://newcriterion.com/issues/2021/12/unprecedented

  920. @Svidomyatheart
    @songbird

    Maybe Pan-Turkism of Pan-Angloism works(5 eyes) but Pan-Slavism doesn't work. Period. Has been said multiple times by other slavs on here as well like like Epgion, Thetotallyanonymous, etc

    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia and you have Croats(who are the Turks historic enemies) getting pissed. Greeks too.

    "Slavic unity" was held by a barrel of a gun and various famines.


    How do you "ally" with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.


    I mean there could possibly be 80 million Ukrainians. And sure I could fantasize about the 80 million Ukrainians which would theoretically be here if not for Russians ..that is if Ukraine's tfr transitioned like in all normal countries and gradually declined. But Russians and their Lenin and more specifically Stalin basically introduced modernity by force and all the ills of it and pretty much instantly cratered the tfr in 1-2 generations.. I mean my greatgreatgrandma had 13 kids..yes 13.

    You know I thought about this for some time and I could whine and ponder about it but ...they're gone and we lost that land.There is nothing else to be done. All one can do is pickup the pieces and try to rebuild with what we have left.

    But instead once again we have Russians salivating and getting ready for war I, I know what these Russians are up to... they want to repeat what they started in 1917. And a number of them openly profess already even on here.

    Except now instead of Latvians, Chinese and Jews they're using Buryats and Chechens as executioners … so far the latter are much less lethal...

    Replies: @songbird, @LatW

    How do you “ally” with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.

    But that’s only part of the issue, regardless of how horrible it was. The problem is not the past, but the present. Everything that is coming out of their main TV channels today (and for the last decades). The hostility is just through the roof. And it has nothing to do with the past, but very much about how they’re feeling at present. There are probably ways to calm them down a little, but not fully.

    How do you “ally”

    You ally with the small ethnonationalist chunk. Or those regular people who are decent in person (there are quite a few because day to day communication doesn’t fully stop).

    I mean there could possibly be 80 million Ukrainians.

    Yes, there could be, imagine many more talented and beautiful people. I heard that at some point in antiquity the number of Russians and Ukrainians was almost equal. Or much closer than now.

    they’re using Buryats and Chechens as executioners … so far the latter are much less lethal…

    I hate to bring this to you, but I heard rumors the other day that they’re recruiting for the military companies, and this time they’re aiming for more seasoned men, not those volunteers without much experience that came in 2014. The Ukrainian side is well aware of this and they’re prepared.

  921. @songbird
    @Svidomyatheart


    A good very recent example is Its like Poland and lobbying for Turkey in every way possible to own Russia
     
    I wonder how much of that is organic to Poland and how much merely because they have been pulled into America's orbit, which, to a degree, includes Turkey.

    How do you “ally” with someone or their descendants who not too long ago murdered about a quarter of population and all of intelligentsia? That was thanks to the combined efforts of Russians, and their various henchmen.
     
    In a way, this would be easy to write off as not being a Russian project (majority of the Communist party in the '30s not Russian, Stalin was basically afraid to speak on the radio because he sounded really not Russian.), but I suppose it would be very dangerous too, to name who was the majority of the communist party.

    The real difficulty, IMO, is the current troubles. It is hard to bury the hatchet with fresh memories. And that is a shame because, from my perspective, being pulled into America's orbit is worse than going through a war - at least, it seems to be, in the long term.

    Replies: @LatW

    Stalin was basically afraid to speak on the radio because he sounded really not Russian.

    Well, he did make speeches in the 30s and videos in the 40s. The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle. It seems the issue with the radio speeches was that he didn’t enunciate clearly, regardless of the accent. And, btw, his Russian was very literate and almost above normal in terms of expression.

    Beria, too, spoke with a Caucasian accent and he was the head of NKVD for quite a long time (he was active roughly from late 1920s all the way to 1953, he was actually executed during Christmas of 1953). These guys didn’t have to shy away from anything.

    from my perspective, being pulled into America’s orbit is worse than going through a war

    If Biden throws Ukraine under the bus in these upcoming talks and, given that the assistance to Ukraine will be only partial anyway (weapons support, et al), then Ukraine doesn’t really owe the US that much so Ukraine won’t need to jump through the US’s hoops. They can keep receiving some minimal assistance and still go their own way (the way it’s been done with various types of mujahideen).

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @LatW


    The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle.
     
    I think that's the speech you're referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbDMaimE5Es
    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking, or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done. I wonder how effective he was as a speaker (sadly can't judge it at all).

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

  922. German_reader says:
    @LatW
    @songbird


    Stalin was basically afraid to speak on the radio because he sounded really not Russian.
     
    Well, he did make speeches in the 30s and videos in the 40s. The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle. It seems the issue with the radio speeches was that he didn't enunciate clearly, regardless of the accent. And, btw, his Russian was very literate and almost above normal in terms of expression.

    Beria, too, spoke with a Caucasian accent and he was the head of NKVD for quite a long time (he was active roughly from late 1920s all the way to 1953, he was actually executed during Christmas of 1953). These guys didn't have to shy away from anything.


    from my perspective, being pulled into America’s orbit is worse than going through a war
     
    If Biden throws Ukraine under the bus in these upcoming talks and, given that the assistance to Ukraine will be only partial anyway (weapons support, et al), then Ukraine doesn't really owe the US that much so Ukraine won't need to jump through the US's hoops. They can keep receiving some minimal assistance and still go their own way (the way it's been done with various types of mujahideen).

    Replies: @German_reader

    The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle.

    I think that’s the speech you’re referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):

    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking, or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done. I wonder how effective he was as a speaker (sadly can’t judge it at all).

    • Replies: @LatW
    @German_reader


    speech you’re referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):
     
    Yes, this is the famous video I had in mind, sorry, mixed it up, it was before the defense of Moscow, not Stalingrad. His speech is a little muddled, but the content is well written and, besides the mild accent, his Russian is very good. Many shots of Slavic boys looking up with adoring faces. Of course, it was meant for propaganda but it looks genuine. To judge him as a speaker... hard to judge, I think what is more impressive about his persona is his demeanor (somewhat paternal, he often has an alpha male perma-smile simultaneous with all the crazy that he was committing) and that he was apparently very modest in his daily habits.

    Anyway, recently some really good colorized WW2 footage has been posted on YouTube, it's a totally different, more realistic experience. It'd be interesting if they colorized Soviet ones like the above one.

    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking
     
    I agree, very striking, the first time I heard it, it left a big impression on me. A non-Russian referencing such moving things for Russians (and Soviets in general), it seemed quite powerful. But he was the leader, no matter the nationality.

    or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done
     
    Yes, it's almost like two lives in parallel.. these speeches and an otherworldly mobilization effort and in the background all the cruelty (before and after the war). Btw, I've recently been reading a Russian dissident historian Mark Solonin, he has studied the period up to 1941 very extensively, including what happened with the Soviet army in the beginning (mass capitulation according to his theories because of being fed up with Bolsheviks). And yet they were able to mobilize later, they had people coming to Moscow from as far as Magadan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNvfqgomXJY

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky
     
    I would not say surprising or striking references, but more expected, considering the culture of the 1930s/1940s.

    E.g. You know the famous 1938, Eisenstein's film with the music of Prokofiev? If you can ignore some of its anti-German bias, you have to see these if only for Prokofiev's music, let alone Eisenstein's incredible photography.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1REYcSiiwXg

    Replies: @German_reader

  923. @German_reader
    @LatW


    The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle.
     
    I think that's the speech you're referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbDMaimE5Es
    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking, or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done. I wonder how effective he was as a speaker (sadly can't judge it at all).

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    speech you’re referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):

    Yes, this is the famous video I had in mind, sorry, mixed it up, it was before the defense of Moscow, not Stalingrad. His speech is a little muddled, but the content is well written and, besides the mild accent, his Russian is very good. Many shots of Slavic boys looking up with adoring faces. Of course, it was meant for propaganda but it looks genuine. To judge him as a speaker… hard to judge, I think what is more impressive about his persona is his demeanor (somewhat paternal, he often has an alpha male perma-smile simultaneous with all the crazy that he was committing) and that he was apparently very modest in his daily habits.

    Anyway, recently some really good colorized WW2 footage has been posted on YouTube, it’s a totally different, more realistic experience. It’d be interesting if they colorized Soviet ones like the above one.

    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking

    I agree, very striking, the first time I heard it, it left a big impression on me. A non-Russian referencing such moving things for Russians (and Soviets in general), it seemed quite powerful. But he was the leader, no matter the nationality.

    or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done

    Yes, it’s almost like two lives in parallel.. these speeches and an otherworldly mobilization effort and in the background all the cruelty (before and after the war). Btw, I’ve recently been reading a Russian dissident historian Mark Solonin, he has studied the period up to 1941 very extensively, including what happened with the Soviet army in the beginning (mass capitulation according to his theories because of being fed up with Bolsheviks). And yet they were able to mobilize later, they had people coming to Moscow from as far as Magadan.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @LatW


    I’ve recently been reading a Russian dissident historian Mark Solonin
     
    I've read some articles in English translation on Solonin's personal website. Can't judge all the details, maybe some things are exaggerated, but seemed like an interesting perspective at least. But iirc he's now living in the Baltics, I assume because more recent developments in Russia aren't to his liking.
  924. German_reader says:
    @LatW
    @German_reader


    speech you’re referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):
     
    Yes, this is the famous video I had in mind, sorry, mixed it up, it was before the defense of Moscow, not Stalingrad. His speech is a little muddled, but the content is well written and, besides the mild accent, his Russian is very good. Many shots of Slavic boys looking up with adoring faces. Of course, it was meant for propaganda but it looks genuine. To judge him as a speaker... hard to judge, I think what is more impressive about his persona is his demeanor (somewhat paternal, he often has an alpha male perma-smile simultaneous with all the crazy that he was committing) and that he was apparently very modest in his daily habits.

    Anyway, recently some really good colorized WW2 footage has been posted on YouTube, it's a totally different, more realistic experience. It'd be interesting if they colorized Soviet ones like the above one.

    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking
     
    I agree, very striking, the first time I heard it, it left a big impression on me. A non-Russian referencing such moving things for Russians (and Soviets in general), it seemed quite powerful. But he was the leader, no matter the nationality.

    or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done
     
    Yes, it's almost like two lives in parallel.. these speeches and an otherworldly mobilization effort and in the background all the cruelty (before and after the war). Btw, I've recently been reading a Russian dissident historian Mark Solonin, he has studied the period up to 1941 very extensively, including what happened with the Soviet army in the beginning (mass capitulation according to his theories because of being fed up with Bolsheviks). And yet they were able to mobilize later, they had people coming to Moscow from as far as Magadan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNvfqgomXJY

    Replies: @German_reader

    I’ve recently been reading a Russian dissident historian Mark Solonin

    I’ve read some articles in English translation on Solonin’s personal website. Can’t judge all the details, maybe some things are exaggerated, but seemed like an interesting perspective at least. But iirc he’s now living in the Baltics, I assume because more recent developments in Russia aren’t to his liking.

  925. But iirc he’s now living in the Baltics, I assume because more recent developments in Russia aren’t to his liking.

    He lived in Estonia several years ago, so he must’ve left Russia before the recent events (maybe after 2014). Unfortunately, I didn’t have a chance to meet him. He has recently moved to Ukraine, from what I understand. Frankly, I’m not too interested in counting tanks, so I haven’t read all his articles, but his YouTube videos are the most interesting. He has a bunch of videos where he and Viktor Suvorov debate in great detail about 1939-1941. He is not in any way pro-Nazi, he has stated many times that the German victory wouldn’t have resulted in anything good for Eastern Europeans.

    At this point, if he lived in Russia, I think he’d be harassed.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @LatW


    He is not in any way pro-Nazi, he has stated many times that the German victory wouldn’t have resulted in anything good for Eastern Europeans.
     
    Certainly not, but iirc he's skeptical about some of the more extreme claims regarding Generalplan Ost. He's also questioned the official number of Soviet war dead of 27 million.
    I've also read a German translation of an interview he once gave in a Polish newspaper, about the subject of expulsions of Germans in 1944/45. He claimed many war crimes weren't committed by regular Red army soldiers, but by special NKVD teams acting on Stalin's orders, to secure the planned population movements and border changes. That seemed a bit speculative to me, and it didn't seem like he could really base those claims on firm evidence from archives.
    So not pro-Nazi, and probably a patriot in his own way (I think he does have great respect for the achievements and sacrifice of the Red army in WW2), but he does touch on a lot of issues which are probably considered taboo again in Russia nowadays.

    Replies: @LatW

  926. @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart

    Actual WNs are too insignificant and too disorganized to bother with, certainly. But the Chinese could simply support the essentials of the WN narrative, which is that whites are oppressed and being Great Replaced. ("White people, your warmongering governments intend to you use as cannon fodder at the very same time they deny you your rights and treat as you as second class citizens.") It would require serious repetition of that message, but countless millions of whites' eyes would be opened.


    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.
     
    Lol, not even close.

    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.
     
    That is bullshit, and not even Karlin's own position.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Svidomyatheart, @Svidomyatheart

    Blacks have no political power without their masters and the US being a black ethnostate would collapse if whites began to self segregate and limit gibs. Which isnt happening, America chose the Empire path long ago and last chance to resist that was when your granddad was marched under bayonets for forceful integration.

    Worshipping black people has been a yank religion for centuries which goes far back. New England preachers from the 1600s already talked about the nobility of the slave and the Indian.

    Look US has a white people problem. If it didn’t, Whiteoids would have a cohesive bloc that would act almost entirely in unison in a multiracial state like the USA, which is not happening time soon.
    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What’s so hard to understand?

    I dont really like using memes and obscure twitter posts but my deficient English makes it so its easier to get my point across. There is a reason why these retarded memes exist.


    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their “pets” and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own “children.”

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart


    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What’s so hard to understand?
     
    Look, I can only reply to what you write, not to what you're thinking in the privacy of your mind. If this were what you had originally written, then I wouldn't have taken issue with it; I would have wholeheartedly agreed. You can read my reply to Barbarossa for the explanation of my response to what you actually wrote.

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their “pets” and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own “children.”
     
    There's no question that at least on the issue of race (but probably many other issues too) they are functionally insane. It is their own demotion and dispossession, and that of their children (their biological children, in the rare instance they have any), that they are effectively campaigning for. But good luck trying to point this out to any of them.

    This isn't a recent phenomenon either. Utterly fuckbrained white racial insanity has a long history. It could very well be that at this point there are enough of these complete lunatics to permanently sink us all. That's a depressing thought but it's a possibility that must be forthrightly faced.

    Anyway, sorry to jump down your throat. In internet discussions, I like to just get to the point and I often dispense with niceties. No hard feelings.
    , @Shortsword
    @Svidomyatheart

    Funny thing about that BLM protest picture: it's from Poland but all the text is in English.

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart

    , @Barbarossa
    @Svidomyatheart

    That last meme is spot on. My town has 2 colleges, a fairly affluent private university and a state school. The state school has quite a number of out of town blacks (with a lot of Asians at the private school, whodathunkit).

    There was a weekly BLM rally along main street when that was the thing and it was 85% white college girls 15% white guys and 5% blacks of any sort. The black kids at the state school apparently could have given less shits.

    Also, when I was criticized as a "white supremacist" in the local paper for a letter to the editor I wrote, it was again by air-headed white women.

    , @songbird
    @Svidomyatheart

    I suspect that women who are manic signal more and more insanely, during periods of mania.

    Incidentally, I'm not sure that the real purpose of civilization is to prevent men from killing each other, so much as it is to ground crazy, old women and prevent them from harming others, especially young women.

    One unconsidered reason for the fall of the West, might be how plenty caused girls to enter pubescence earlier, increasing the net estrogen of society.

  927. German_reader says:
    @LatW

    But iirc he’s now living in the Baltics, I assume because more recent developments in Russia aren’t to his liking.
     
    He lived in Estonia several years ago, so he must've left Russia before the recent events (maybe after 2014). Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to meet him. He has recently moved to Ukraine, from what I understand. Frankly, I'm not too interested in counting tanks, so I haven't read all his articles, but his YouTube videos are the most interesting. He has a bunch of videos where he and Viktor Suvorov debate in great detail about 1939-1941. He is not in any way pro-Nazi, he has stated many times that the German victory wouldn't have resulted in anything good for Eastern Europeans.

    At this point, if he lived in Russia, I think he'd be harassed.

    Replies: @German_reader

    He is not in any way pro-Nazi, he has stated many times that the German victory wouldn’t have resulted in anything good for Eastern Europeans.

    Certainly not, but iirc he’s skeptical about some of the more extreme claims regarding Generalplan Ost. He’s also questioned the official number of Soviet war dead of 27 million.
    I’ve also read a German translation of an interview he once gave in a Polish newspaper, about the subject of expulsions of Germans in 1944/45. He claimed many war crimes weren’t committed by regular Red army soldiers, but by special NKVD teams acting on Stalin’s orders, to secure the planned population movements and border changes. That seemed a bit speculative to me, and it didn’t seem like he could really base those claims on firm evidence from archives.
    So not pro-Nazi, and probably a patriot in his own way (I think he does have great respect for the achievements and sacrifice of the Red army in WW2), but he does touch on a lot of issues which are probably considered taboo again in Russia nowadays.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @German_reader


    Certainly not, but iirc he’s skeptical about some of the more extreme claims regarding Generalplan Ost.
     
    When asked what the German victory would be like, he said something like the new environment would be "Orwellian". However, in one of his interviews he mentioned something about village or a group of villages in Russia, under German occupation, where life had apparently been bearable and almost somewhat good. So from that one may conclude that he doesn't view this as black and white, possibly those who would not have resisted could've been spared, especially since there were way more Slavs than Germans.

    I’ve also read a German translation of an interview he once gave in a Polish newspaper, about the subject of expulsions of Germans in 1944/45. He claimed many war crimes weren’t committed by regular Red army soldiers, but by special NKVD teams acting on Stalin’s orders, to secure the planned population movements and border changes. That seemed a bit speculative to me, and it didn’t seem like he could really base those claims on firm evidence from archives.
     
    Well, while sinister, that doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility but it would be interesting to see what he's basing that on. It definitely does seem like Stalin's MO and it makes sense if you look at how things are today in that neighborhood. Although there was a lot of chaos so hard to say how "planned" things were overall.


    So not pro-Nazi, and probably a patriot in his own way (I think he does have great respect for the achievements and sacrifice of the Red army in WW2),
     
    He's definitely a Russian patriot. He just leans heavily anti-Soviet and a bit on the conservative side. He's a seeker of truth. I think his biggest beef is all these governments that have ruled over Russians in such a course and uncaring, unjust way.


    but he does touch on a lot of issues which are probably considered taboo again in Russia nowadays.
     
    Yes. He even claimed that the Leningrad blockade was not a real blockade because a route could be opened from the lake Ladoga direction (before the Road of Life was opened), all those people died of starvation largely because food and provision was just not prioritized among the loads of other cargo that was coming into the city (manufacturing continued there). This is the kind of angle that Russians simply don't want to hear. Partly because there were so many victims (Putin's older brother died there, too), and partly because they are the victors and they maintain a victor, not victim narrative. That so many people died partly because of the misplaced priorities of their own government, is something they don't want to hear. Who would?

    Replies: @German_reader

  928. @Barbarossa
    @silviosilver


    that BLM is a wholly white psyop.
     
    I'd be curious on why you think this statement is bullshit? I wouldn't word it as strongly as Svidomyatheart but I think there is an element of truth there.

    My own perception is that a great many blacks are fairly indifferent to BLM or go along for basically opportunistic reasons (gibs). It's worth noting that the entire crop of current black "intellectuals" comes straight from the prestigious and entitled institutions and can hardly be considered a grassroots movement.
    The significant thing about BLM is that it seeks to bundle black identity with the wider "woke" identity politics, especially around LGBT+. Blacks have been historically the least accepting of gender ideology which is an inconvenient reality for the supposedly model minority. BLM seems to be an engineered push to corral blacks into "right thinking" on the issue.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    I’d be curious on why you think this statement is bullshit? I wouldn’t word it as strongly as Svidomyatheart but I think there is an element of truth there.

    Call me pedantic, but when I come across the word “wholly,” I assume the author chose it deliberately because he wanted to convey the literal meaning of that word, which is not “mostly” or “partly,” but “entirely.” It’s just obvious that BLM is not a wholly white phenomenon.

    That said, of course I agree there is “element of truth,” in the sense that there is heavy white involvement (indeed, investment) in BLM, and that BLM would be a shadow of itself without it.

  929. @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Blacks have no political power without their masters and the US being a black ethnostate would collapse if whites began to self segregate and limit gibs. Which isnt happening, America chose the Empire path long ago and last chance to resist that was when your granddad was marched under bayonets for forceful integration.

    Worshipping black people has been a yank religion for centuries which goes far back. New England preachers from the 1600s already talked about the nobility of the slave and the Indian.


    Look US has a white people problem. If it didn't, Whiteoids would have a cohesive bloc that would act almost entirely in unison in a multiracial state like the USA, which is not happening time soon.
    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What's so hard to understand?

    https://i.imgur.com/YL89CZM.png


    I dont really like using memes and obscure twitter posts but my deficient English makes it so its easier to get my point across. There is a reason why these retarded memes exist.

    https://i.imgur.com/T39kDhr.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/LpFPrX0.png

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their "pets" and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own "children."

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Shortsword, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What’s so hard to understand?

    Look, I can only reply to what you write, not to what you’re thinking in the privacy of your mind. If this were what you had originally written, then I wouldn’t have taken issue with it; I would have wholeheartedly agreed. You can read my reply to Barbarossa for the explanation of my response to what you actually wrote.

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their “pets” and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own “children.”

    There’s no question that at least on the issue of race (but probably many other issues too) they are functionally insane. It is their own demotion and dispossession, and that of their children (their biological children, in the rare instance they have any), that they are effectively campaigning for. But good luck trying to point this out to any of them.

    This isn’t a recent phenomenon either. Utterly fuckbrained white racial insanity has a long history. It could very well be that at this point there are enough of these complete lunatics to permanently sink us all. That’s a depressing thought but it’s a possibility that must be forthrightly faced.

    Anyway, sorry to jump down your throat. In internet discussions, I like to just get to the point and I often dispense with niceties. No hard feelings.

  930. @German_reader
    @Svidomyatheart


    and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos.
     
    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren't white. Frankly, I've always felt Karlin's thesis about "CRT as white supremacy" was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies (understandable given current geopolitical tensions).
    However, it's of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Svidomyatheart

    Frankly, I’ve always felt Karlin’s thesis about “CRT as white supremacy” was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies

    It was an exceedingly dumb take, but I’m not so sure it was a trollish take. Karlin’s enough of a prideful IQ fetishist that there’s every chance he wholeheartedly believed it; it was enough that the idea emanated from his very own big brain for it to be true, evidence and logic be damned.

    The most minimal definition of “white supremacy”should be that something benefits whites more than it benefits blacks, or some subset of whites more than a comparable subset of blacks. But there’s no evidence that CRT/BLM meets even this bare-bones definition, let alone a more reasonable, “traditional” definition of white supremacy.

    If I were of a particularly devious cast of mind, I might spread the rumor that this is the real reason Karlin quit Unz. His pride would not allow him to admit he was wrong, yet the clear evidence that he was wrong dangled over his head like the sword of Damocles. Unable to take the heat, he chose to vacate the kitchen. Of course, I am not so devious, so I would never attempt to spread such a rumor.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @silviosilver


    it was enough that the idea emanated from his very own big brain
     
    Not sure about that tbh. Not that I want to accuse AK of plagiarism, but Razib Khan has written similar things (CRT basically as just the mirror image of mighty whitey views of history, something which seems to greatly offend Khan). So it seems to be a take that's out there and probably can't be pinned down on any single individual.
    , @Dmitry
    @silviosilver

    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don't understand how he would care about white nationalists, even if only pretending to be, to create provocacy that generates a few clicks. White nationalists are one of the few groups in society who would be quite likely to beat him in the street.

    His views are Russian imperialism, which is not really a much related worldview to white nationalism.

    As for Karlin quitting Unz, which was sad, who knows why? He never said himself. At least we can be fortunate that Ron Unz supports us.

    Replies: @sher singh, @silviosilver

  931. sher singh says:

    https://www.opindia.com/2021/12/man-who-has-been-dropping-used-condoms-in-temple-hundis-arrested/

    “The accused had dropped used condoms in Gurudwaras as well as Mosques in the region. He has also revealed all the areas where has done such acts. When asked about how he can recall all the places clearly, he said he had worked as an auto driver for over 15 years and is well versed with all the places.

    He used to collect used condoms from waste dumps.

    Talking to the media, the man defended his action saying he was doing it to spread the message of Jesus.

    I am spreading the message of Jesus from the past 15 years.

    The Bible says that except Jesus there is no other god. I used to drop these condoms as impure gifts must be given to impure places.”

    He left his family to spread the message of Jesus, which includes to let any seed go wasted.

    LOL!

  932. @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Blacks have no political power without their masters and the US being a black ethnostate would collapse if whites began to self segregate and limit gibs. Which isnt happening, America chose the Empire path long ago and last chance to resist that was when your granddad was marched under bayonets for forceful integration.

    Worshipping black people has been a yank religion for centuries which goes far back. New England preachers from the 1600s already talked about the nobility of the slave and the Indian.


    Look US has a white people problem. If it didn't, Whiteoids would have a cohesive bloc that would act almost entirely in unison in a multiracial state like the USA, which is not happening time soon.
    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What's so hard to understand?

    https://i.imgur.com/YL89CZM.png


    I dont really like using memes and obscure twitter posts but my deficient English makes it so its easier to get my point across. There is a reason why these retarded memes exist.

    https://i.imgur.com/T39kDhr.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/LpFPrX0.png

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their "pets" and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own "children."

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Shortsword, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    Funny thing about that BLM protest picture: it’s from Poland but all the text is in English.

    • Replies: @Svidomyatheart
    @Shortsword

    Yeah I think I talked about Poland before too...Poland needs to be careful of US which is trying to hollow it out. Poland is liberalizing on everything with lightning speed, its ultimately a colony of the GAE.

  933. German_reader says:
    @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    Frankly, I’ve always felt Karlin’s thesis about “CRT as white supremacy” was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies
     
    It was an exceedingly dumb take, but I'm not so sure it was a trollish take. Karlin's enough of a prideful IQ fetishist that there's every chance he wholeheartedly believed it; it was enough that the idea emanated from his very own big brain for it to be true, evidence and logic be damned.

    The most minimal definition of "white supremacy"should be that something benefits whites more than it benefits blacks, or some subset of whites more than a comparable subset of blacks. But there's no evidence that CRT/BLM meets even this bare-bones definition, let alone a more reasonable, "traditional" definition of white supremacy.

    If I were of a particularly devious cast of mind, I might spread the rumor that this is the real reason Karlin quit Unz. His pride would not allow him to admit he was wrong, yet the clear evidence that he was wrong dangled over his head like the sword of Damocles. Unable to take the heat, he chose to vacate the kitchen. Of course, I am not so devious, so I would never attempt to spread such a rumor.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry

    it was enough that the idea emanated from his very own big brain

    Not sure about that tbh. Not that I want to accuse AK of plagiarism, but Razib Khan has written similar things (CRT basically as just the mirror image of mighty whitey views of history, something which seems to greatly offend Khan). So it seems to be a take that’s out there and probably can’t be pinned down on any single individual.

  934. @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart

    Actual WNs are too insignificant and too disorganized to bother with, certainly. But the Chinese could simply support the essentials of the WN narrative, which is that whites are oppressed and being Great Replaced. ("White people, your warmongering governments intend to you use as cannon fodder at the very same time they deny you your rights and treat as you as second class citizens.") It would require serious repetition of that message, but countless millions of whites' eyes would be opened.


    You may be a minority but 85%+ Americans support CRT, BLM, LGBTQ+, their Empire.
     
    Lol, not even close.

    Karlin(and others) correctly said that BLM is a wholly white psyop.
     
    That is bullshit, and not even Karlin's own position.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Svidomyatheart, @Svidomyatheart

    Your problem is you think all whites are on the same team. When like 30% of whites aready to immolate for PoC you know America has a problem. Karlin specifically said that the only thing one can get out of WNs is use them for the state and the discard them.

    Have you read Thomas777?
    Probably the only American nationalist worth posting about. Hes got a soft spot for Africans just as any good New Worlder and Islam which I find odd(probably because he hasnt been around Muslims much and hes pissed that his country is hijacked and used by ethnics)

    Here, its bascially a collection of posts you dont have to go to shitty Stormfronts, Counter-Currents , or Vanguard News Network, The Phroa and the like.

    https://wiki.chadnet.org/files/thomas777-greatest-poasts.pdf

    its got everything utu likes too.Very easily read only 300 or so pages, a competent reader should finish it in a couple of hours.

    I have long felt that White people are also a nihilistic, self-loathing lot that collectively suffers froma real existential neurosis. Its almost as if there is an ever-present, memetical subtext within Whitesocieties that we are all “fallen” to such a degree and so responsible for the trials and tribulations of”opressed” peoples that rape, murder, political and social dispossession are fitting punishments that
    should be welcomed

    “White peoples have a cultural problem, a theological problem, and a political problem – and only
    addressing one of these things to the exclusion of the other(s) isn’t really constructive

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart


    Your problem is you think all whites are on the same team.
     
    I don't believe that at all. I don't even believe in one biologically uniform white race, let alone that its members are all united. I don't expect you to have paid attention to my posts, but if you had been, there's no way you could draw such a mistaken conclusion about my beliefs.

    In fact, not only don't I consider myself a WN, I don't even consider myself "white" - not by traditional WN standards, which were and mostly remain a WASP/Nordicist kind of thing. Of course, nowadays they are much more relaxed about that standard, but I still think it's fair to say that the people who feel most energized and passionate about white identity are those who fit the original definition. It's too much hassle to preface my every post on race (99% of my posts lol) with a "health warning" that "The individual making the following statement may not meet your definition of white" so I just get to the point and figure I can provide background explanations as needed.

    Nevertheless, there are certain issue that do indeed affect all whites (or "whites"), whether they are WNs, whether they are "fully" white, or even whether they are anti-racists (like the insane leftards in the pics you posted). For example, my experiences with blacks leave me with no doubt as to how they classify me, so simply as a defensive measure I am forced to regard myself as white.

    Lastly, I regard racial identitarianism and racial separation (be it across continents, across countries, across cities or merely across neighborhoods) as the preeminent political objectives of our age. The way I encourage people to think about its benefits is not in terms who it allows you to unite with, but who it allows you separate from. Eg the fact that racial identitarianism and separation would allow me to separate from blacks means infinitely more to me than the possibility that it might separate me from WASPs.


    Have you read Thomas777?
     
    Yes, I have read many of his posts at various forums over the years. He certainly is a perceptive commentator, but I think his views - as I recall them, so my opinion may change after perusing the pdf you linked to - fit the mold of an older form of WN, that tended to view the racial predicament as whites vs everyone else, and to fixate on distinctions between superiority and inferiority, and to regard the world as hopelessly broken simply because it is wrong on race ("race is wrong, therefore everything is wrong"), and to look for "quick fix" solutions by hitting people up with crime and IQ stats in the hopes that this would encourage racial resentment ("look how criminal and stupid niggers are, don't you just hate them??").

    These notions are not completely without value, and they have something important to say about the world, but experience has surely proven that they are woefully inadequate both in terms of taking into consideration the general reactions they elicit (ie overwhelmingly negative reactions), as well as in terms of providing a practical way forward. Now, I am no saint, and I have fallen for some of these 'temptations' myself on numerous occasions - hey, I'm only human and it's bleak out there - so I don't want to come down on them too harshly. But I'm firmly convinced that the model of just getting whites angry enough and expecting they will spontaneously rise in racial rebellion is utterly bankrupt. It is assaulting the enemy where his defences are strongest, which is never wise.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  935. @German_reader
    @Svidomyatheart


    and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos.
     
    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren't white. Frankly, I've always felt Karlin's thesis about "CRT as white supremacy" was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies (understandable given current geopolitical tensions).
    However, it's of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Svidomyatheart

    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren’t white.

    The NAACP and ACLU have been Jewish controlled and financed from Day 0. The Negro civil rights movement in the United States has always been a Jewish project. It is K. McDonald and E. Michael Jones’ Exhibit A. BLM is not funded by collecting coins in coffee cans at Black Panther barbeques.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    The NAACP and ACLU have been Jewish controlled and financed from Day 0. The Negro civil rights movement in the United States has always been a Jewish project.
     
    Organizations can change (or be hijacked) over time. Regardless of its roots, the ACLU is now *against* the things it was formed to protect. Look at their authoritarian defense of BigPharma and state control for WUHAN-19: (1)

    Having turned civil liberties on its head, the ACLU now argues that, “The real threat to civil liberties comes from states banning vaccine and mask mandates.”

    And, indeed, the ACLU is suing states who ban schools from forcing children to wear masks.

    The real threat from civil liberties now comes from championing civil liberties. The old ACLU is a threat to the new ACLU which redefines civil liberties as the deprivation of civil liberties.

    There is a surreal hypocrisy in the ACLU abandoning all its old beliefs to argue that "rights are not absolute" and that there are "justifiable intrusion(s) on autonomy and bodily integrity" for the public good.
     
    The ACLU is now an openly anti-Jewish organization: (2)

    "The anti-Semitic BDS Hate Movement has no greater asset today than the sophisticated legal support it receives from the American Civil Liberties Union," said Arizona state senator Paul Boyer (R.), who sponsored anti-boycott legislation that was challenged by the ACLU, in a statement to the Washington Free Beacon. "The ACLU’s efforts in this matter showcase a stunning embrace of anti-Jewish bigotry and blatant hypocrisy that all civil libertarians should reject."
    ...

    The ACLU has "adopted a schizophrenic approach to anti-discrimination laws, challenging those laws meant to protect Jewish Americans" while "defending all other anti-discrimination laws, even those that compel speech that violates the religious beliefs of many Americans," said the Zachor Legal Institute’s Marc Greendorfer, whose group compiled a report outlining the advocacy efforts of the ACLU in recent years.

    The Zachor Legal Institute report noted that the ACLU objected to people linking COVID-19 to China last year due to fears that anti-China commentary would lead to hate crimes against Asian Americans.

    ACLU deputy legal director Cecillia Wang wrote last year that terms such as "Wuhan virus" could "lead to dangerous scapegoating and widespread ignorance, just when accurate public health information is critically needed" and encourage "racism and overt acts of harassment and violence against Asian Americans."

    ACLU staffers have also spoken out in favor of BDS and partnered with BDS activist groups.
     
    Please continue to criticize groups such as ACLU and SPLC. However, you should not misidentify them as Jewish.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/09/aclu-goes-war-against-pandemic-civil-rights-daniel-greenfield/

    (2) https://freebeacon.com/courts/aclu-becomes-top-legal-defender-of-anti-semitic-bds-campaign/
  936. @Shortsword
    @Svidomyatheart

    Funny thing about that BLM protest picture: it's from Poland but all the text is in English.

    Replies: @Svidomyatheart

    Yeah I think I talked about Poland before too…Poland needs to be careful of US which is trying to hollow it out. Poland is liberalizing on everything with lightning speed, its ultimately a colony of the GAE.

  937. @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Your problem is you think all whites are on the same team. When like 30% of whites aready to immolate for PoC you know America has a problem. Karlin specifically said that the only thing one can get out of WNs is use them for the state and the discard them.

    Have you read Thomas777?
    Probably the only American nationalist worth posting about. Hes got a soft spot for Africans just as any good New Worlder and Islam which I find odd(probably because he hasnt been around Muslims much and hes pissed that his country is hijacked and used by ethnics)

    Here, its bascially a collection of posts you dont have to go to shitty Stormfronts, Counter-Currents , or Vanguard News Network, The Phroa and the like.

    https://wiki.chadnet.org/files/thomas777-greatest-poasts.pdf


    its got everything utu likes too.Very easily read only 300 or so pages, a competent reader should finish it in a couple of hours.

    "I have long felt that White people are also a nihilistic, self-loathing lot that collectively suffers froma real existential neurosis. Its almost as if there is an ever-present, memetical subtext within Whitesocieties that we are all "fallen" to such a degree and so responsible for the trials and tribulations of"opressed" peoples that rape, murder, political and social dispossession are fitting punishments that
    should be welcomed
    "

    "White peoples have a cultural problem, a theological problem, and a political problem - and only
    addressing one of these things to the exclusion of the other(s) isn’t really constructive
    "

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Your problem is you think all whites are on the same team.

    I don’t believe that at all. I don’t even believe in one biologically uniform white race, let alone that its members are all united. I don’t expect you to have paid attention to my posts, but if you had been, there’s no way you could draw such a mistaken conclusion about my beliefs.

    In fact, not only don’t I consider myself a WN, I don’t even consider myself “white” – not by traditional WN standards, which were and mostly remain a WASP/Nordicist kind of thing. Of course, nowadays they are much more relaxed about that standard, but I still think it’s fair to say that the people who feel most energized and passionate about white identity are those who fit the original definition. It’s too much hassle to preface my every post on race (99% of my posts lol) with a “health warning” that “The individual making the following statement may not meet your definition of white” so I just get to the point and figure I can provide background explanations as needed.

    Nevertheless, there are certain issue that do indeed affect all whites (or “whites”), whether they are WNs, whether they are “fully” white, or even whether they are anti-racists (like the insane leftards in the pics you posted). For example, my experiences with blacks leave me with no doubt as to how they classify me, so simply as a defensive measure I am forced to regard myself as white.

    Lastly, I regard racial identitarianism and racial separation (be it across continents, across countries, across cities or merely across neighborhoods) as the preeminent political objectives of our age. The way I encourage people to think about its benefits is not in terms who it allows you to unite with, but who it allows you separate from. Eg the fact that racial identitarianism and separation would allow me to separate from blacks means infinitely more to me than the possibility that it might separate me from WASPs.

    Have you read Thomas777?

    Yes, I have read many of his posts at various forums over the years. He certainly is a perceptive commentator, but I think his views – as I recall them, so my opinion may change after perusing the pdf you linked to – fit the mold of an older form of WN, that tended to view the racial predicament as whites vs everyone else, and to fixate on distinctions between superiority and inferiority, and to regard the world as hopelessly broken simply because it is wrong on race (“race is wrong, therefore everything is wrong”), and to look for “quick fix” solutions by hitting people up with crime and IQ stats in the hopes that this would encourage racial resentment (“look how criminal and stupid niggers are, don’t you just hate them??”).

    These notions are not completely without value, and they have something important to say about the world, but experience has surely proven that they are woefully inadequate both in terms of taking into consideration the general reactions they elicit (ie overwhelmingly negative reactions), as well as in terms of providing a practical way forward. Now, I am no saint, and I have fallen for some of these ‘temptations’ myself on numerous occasions – hey, I’m only human and it’s bleak out there – so I don’t want to come down on them too harshly. But I’m firmly convinced that the model of just getting whites angry enough and expecting they will spontaneously rise in racial rebellion is utterly bankrupt. It is assaulting the enemy where his defences are strongest, which is never wise.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @silviosilver


    but I think his views – as I recall them, so my opinion may change after perusing the pdf you linked to
     
    Okay, so reading the pdf collation of his posts, I see I was wrong to ascribe the views I outlined to Thomas777. He was in debate with people from that milieu but it was incorrect to characterize him as belonging to it.

    Broadly, I would describe him as belonging to what I think of as the "deep Right." For this set, race being wrong is not the origin of their conviction that everything is wrong; rather the converse: race being wrong is a symptom of everything else being wrong.

    The core of this view is that life should be something much grander than satisfying our physiological needs and distracting ourselves with ephemeral amusements. AK Open Threads are rife with expressions of this viewpoint. I am not particularly sympathetic to this view, and I find its outright dismissal of foundational liberal truisms too tiresome to deal with.

    I mean, take the notion of treating other people as equally as possible (but not more so!) or satisfying material wants by engaging in market exchange. Am I really supposed to believe that these are the fons et origo of all that ails us? Most deep rightists would actually argue they are. It's like trying to debate a marxoid who is convinced that profit is necessarily evil. It's too exhausting. CBF.

    Replies: @sher singh

  938. @A123
    @German_reader

    The answer is pretty simple. As a Christian I have had many family commitments. Things that should have occurred last Christmas didn't. So, there a number of family items need 24 months of upkeep instead of the usual 12. Fulfilling, but time consuming and stressful.
    ____

    As to continuing to post here... I am undecided.

    Politics is inherently somewhat negative:
    -- Most individual wins are at best partial as they require compromise.
    -- Defeating Not-The-President Biden's crazy is necessary, but it doesn't enact MAGA policy.
    -- Wins happen in some states like Florida and Texas, but they cannot fix national problems.
    -- Trench work to prepare for the midterms looks very positive at this point. Alas, there will not be any policy gains for another year, with the possibly exception of some Judicial wins.

    Add that to the negativity of many commenters here. For example, those who are angry at Trump for not achieving my the impossible.

    The most rational commenters who added the new & interesting content are gradually departing. Think of it in HBD terms. As the best stock outflows, the remaining population is in decline. Presenting information to acolytes of emotional "anti-factual" dogma is futile.

    Poking the TROLLS is mildly amusing, but it also adds to the negativity. Upon reflection, I would like to avoid making things worse. I will do my best to stop unnecessarily prodding you, Iffen, and Barbarossa. If you would like to help, you can also choose to avoid unnecessary jibing in an effort make things more positive.
    _____

    As to the merits of where we stand on the issues...

    The European WEF Elites in Davos have been poisoning Europe with excessive migration for decades. Merkel amped up that problem and sent it to America.

    The Fascist Storm Troopers of Antifa started in Europe (1)


    The Antifa movement has origins in several European countries in the early 20th century, particularly Germany and Italy, when fascism was a real and urgent concern. In Germany, it began during the rise of Hitler and it was far from perfect in its resistance to the rise of Nazism. For one, the German communist party and the German social democratic party never came to an agreement in their attempts to fight back. In Italy, a similar movement began as a response to Benito Mussolini's regime.

    There are differing interpretations of how the name came about: BBC News, for example, reports that it is short for "anti-fascist." In Germany, one attempt to unite the left during that time period was called Antifascischistsche Aktion. From it, others believe the name "Antifa" was born.
     
    It is not purely an one way street. Some things have travelled from the U.S. to Europe. However, "Western Europe" has had less Christianity and more Migration for decades. European politicians lead SJW Globalism. You do not have to look further than Scholz to see the bizarre direction that Germany is trying to take Europe (and the world including the U.S.). There is nothing "American" or "U.S. led" about the new German regime.
    ___

    There should be some good Bible quotes (from Romans?) about tending to one's own problems. If your house is in order that gives you the resources and stability to successfully help others.

    The only people who can help Germany are the Germans. The only people who can help Europe are the Europeans. The EU needs to become less powerful or dissolve to make way for something more appropriate. Yes. The FRB has mishandled(∆∆) its dollar responsibilities. However, German Banking Elites in Frankfurt drove the ECB to "permanent negative interest rates". Temporary "negative interest rates" were tried in Japan and worked poorly. Yet Brussels and German Elites rolled them out anyway.
    ___

    The U.S. has its own disastrous internal issues. Policies for MAGA Reindustrialization are inherently "positive" efforts about recovering jobs and capabilities that have been diminished or lost. However, the U.S. system like the EU system needs structural changes:

    -- Destructive indoctrination has to be routed from schools, universities and the media.
    -- MegaCorporations, especially international financial firms, need to be reigned in. Restoring Glass-Stegall would be a good start.
    -- Citizens who work need to reap the fruits of their labour. A full retrenchment to Marxism is not in the cards, but the Balance of Power has to be remedied.
    -- There are a number of other things that also need to be strengthened, as protections in Bill of the Rights have been steamrolled, especially the 10th.

    Can the current Constitution can be fixed to deliver these "must have" changes?

    I am not so sure. It has been badly damaged and dragged away from its historical context. Add to that outpacing by technology. For example, travelling from London to Virginia in the late 1700's took 6 weeks and unfortunate winds could extend that for more than a month. Today, flight time London to DC is about 8 hours and electronic communication is even faster. And, that is only one example of a concept that did not exist when the Constitution was written.

    Realistically, the current document rests on predicates & assumptions that have radically changed, so the necessary foundation is not solid. America probably needs a full Constitutional Convention to provide a sound replacement.
    __________________________

    I am short on editing time, so apologies in advance if this is a bit of a structural ramble. It will also have more than it's fair share of typos and grammar issues. I have to head out for my next family event in a few minutes.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.bustle.com/p/where-did-antifa-come-from-the-movements-origins-go-back-to-germany-76340

    (∆∆) Yes. The phrase "FRB mishandling" is a potentially eye opening understatement. However, I am trying to avoid tidal waves of negativity. Anything more accurate is unlikely to be "positive".

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack, @iffen, @Barbarossa

    I’m glad to hear that you have been spending some well deserved time with family.

    I hope that you don’t think I’m antagonizing you in any any way. If it seems like I’m jibing you, it’s intended as more of a friendly ribbing. As I’ve mentioned in the past, I do enjoy your presence as a commenter, even if I sometime disagree.

    I had actually meant to reply to our last conversation where you enjoined me to direct my discontent in a more productive direction.

    This is naturally a question that I’ve spent quite a bit of time on, without any real assurance that I can discern the correct answer.
    What I have broadly come to is that we are in a crisis that is social and spiritual at it’s core, not political. Statism has overwhelmed all other competing power centers in society such as religion and the family which no longer function as motive forces on society. Instead, religion and the family have become essentially reactive forces, limited to whatever scope the State accords them.

    So, I don’t see much real help coming from national politics, whether it’s Trump or someone else. I’m happy to vote for people who will be less bad, such as Trump, but I feel that political improvements will be limited and temporary at best. Part of me also feels that the inevitable woke collapse is best accelerated and that the sooner the current system suffers a full meltdown the better. I basically think that most of institutions have reached such a level of hopeless rot that only full scale collapse and rebuilding can accomplish much.

    As such, I put the bulk of my efforts into things that I can have a direct effect on. My land, my family, and especially my children and their formation take paramount importance. Also building the local relationships and friendships which create a really strong and interconnected community. I think that these will be necessary in the nearer future than many may expect, and I am hoping that myself and a lot of people around me can continue to prosper as much as possible as the American Empire continues it’s slide into irrelevance. With any luck, out of the way corners of America like mine will be able to maintain the blueprint for what it means to have a family or feel loyalty to a community and a particular corner of the world.

    Sometimes, I feel that far too much attention is paid to national politics and if the past couple generations had paid more attention to their kid’s upbringing than who is on some national ticket we would be in a somewhat better place today.

    [MORE]

    One way I think about this is in relation to abortion. Conservatives have obsessed about getting a Supreme Court roster that would allow for the repeal of Roe v. Wade, and indeed look like that may soon yield results. I would be glad to see Roe repealed but if there is no wider culture present which rejects abortion it will make little difference on the state level.
    By the same token, if Roe had really been groundbreaking it would have never been tolerated by the citizenry. Instead, Roe was merely codifying into law a shift which had already taken place in the culture.

    I hope that helps illuminate my general outlook and priorities. I have no idea if it’s truly the best course, but it seems the best available with what resources are at my disposal.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Statism has overwhelmed all other competing power centers in society such as religion and the family which no longer function as motive forces on society. Instead, religion and the family have become essentially reactive forces, limited to whatever scope the State accords them.

    So, I don’t see much real help coming from national politics, whether it’s Trump or someone else. I’m happy to vote for people who will be less bad, such as Trump, but I feel that political improvements will be limited and temporary at best. Part of me also feels that the inevitable woke collapse is best accelerated and that the sooner the current system suffers a full meltdown the better. I basically think that most of institutions have reached such a level of hopeless rot that only full scale collapse and rebuilding can accomplish much.
     
    I largely agree with your view of the current situation.

    SJW Globalism needs needs an unquestioning populace to believe in its dogma. In the U.S., the Constitution was twisted to drive Christianity out of the public spaces. The Fake Stream Media is equally culpable, and strictly speaking that is not "Statism". Unelected Elites have suborned national sovereignty.
    ___

    As to the future, perhaps I am too optimistic. I do not see collapse as inevitable or necessary. A bright light is shining on the consequences of Wokeism, such as the collapse of civil order in Portland and Minneapolis. People do not want that future for their communities.

    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." P. T. Barnum

    MAGA offers an opportunity for real change away from UN/NWO Globalist rule. They key is realizing it took decades of incrementalism to dig the hole in which we find ourselves. It will take more than a single, 4 year, Presidential term to fill in the chasm.

    In many ways the "non-State" threats are the largest problem. How does one eradicate Lügenpresse collaborators spreading misinformation? They are theoretically private media firms even though they are essential to the Elite super-state.

    Also, some of the key problems are not federal. There will be battles on many fronts, such as local DA's and school boards. There will not be 100% success from every engagement. One does not surrender the overall war because a single fight did not come out as hoped.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
  939. @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Blacks have no political power without their masters and the US being a black ethnostate would collapse if whites began to self segregate and limit gibs. Which isnt happening, America chose the Empire path long ago and last chance to resist that was when your granddad was marched under bayonets for forceful integration.

    Worshipping black people has been a yank religion for centuries which goes far back. New England preachers from the 1600s already talked about the nobility of the slave and the Indian.


    Look US has a white people problem. If it didn't, Whiteoids would have a cohesive bloc that would act almost entirely in unison in a multiracial state like the USA, which is not happening time soon.
    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What's so hard to understand?

    https://i.imgur.com/YL89CZM.png


    I dont really like using memes and obscure twitter posts but my deficient English makes it so its easier to get my point across. There is a reason why these retarded memes exist.

    https://i.imgur.com/T39kDhr.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/LpFPrX0.png

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their "pets" and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own "children."

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Shortsword, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    That last meme is spot on. My town has 2 colleges, a fairly affluent private university and a state school. The state school has quite a number of out of town blacks (with a lot of Asians at the private school, whodathunkit).

    There was a weekly BLM rally along main street when that was the thing and it was 85% white college girls 15% white guys and 5% blacks of any sort. The black kids at the state school apparently could have given less shits.

    Also, when I was criticized as a “white supremacist” in the local paper for a letter to the editor I wrote, it was again by air-headed white women.

  940. @German_reader
    @Barbarossa


    I’m curious for examples of how abortion is more regulated in Western European counties than in America.
     
    I think the time period during which abortion is legal is generally shorter; in Germany it's during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Of course that might not make that much of a difference in practice (apparently most abortions in the US also take place during the first three months).
    In Germany it's also mandatory that women who want an abortion have a talk with an officially appointed counsellor (and at least according to the letter of the law the goal of that counselling talk is the protection of unborn life, and women are to be encouraged to continue their pregnancy). At least three days have to pass between that talk and an abortion, so that there's enough time for second thoughts and the decision isn't rushed.
    I don't know how the system works in reality. I suppose not that great, since there were almost 100 000 abortions in Germany last year.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    That is interesting. Often time one assumes Europe to be broadly more liberal than the US, but that is far from monolithic, such as the negative reaction from the French political establishment to tweaking the language for gender neutral pronouns.

    As you said, it probably doesn’t always work out as the letter of the law intends. However, Germany’s abortion rate is nearly a third of the US’s.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/abortion-rates-by-country

    Russia is by far the highest with an abortion rate around 6 times that of Germany. Ouch.

  941. @silviosilver
    @German_reader


    Frankly, I’ve always felt Karlin’s thesis about “CRT as white supremacy” was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies
     
    It was an exceedingly dumb take, but I'm not so sure it was a trollish take. Karlin's enough of a prideful IQ fetishist that there's every chance he wholeheartedly believed it; it was enough that the idea emanated from his very own big brain for it to be true, evidence and logic be damned.

    The most minimal definition of "white supremacy"should be that something benefits whites more than it benefits blacks, or some subset of whites more than a comparable subset of blacks. But there's no evidence that CRT/BLM meets even this bare-bones definition, let alone a more reasonable, "traditional" definition of white supremacy.

    If I were of a particularly devious cast of mind, I might spread the rumor that this is the real reason Karlin quit Unz. His pride would not allow him to admit he was wrong, yet the clear evidence that he was wrong dangled over his head like the sword of Damocles. Unable to take the heat, he chose to vacate the kitchen. Of course, I am not so devious, so I would never attempt to spread such a rumor.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Dmitry

    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don’t understand how he would care about white nationalists, even if only pretending to be, to create provocacy that generates a few clicks. White nationalists are one of the few groups in society who would be quite likely to beat him in the street.

    His views are Russian imperialism, which is not really a much related worldview to white nationalism.

    As for Karlin quitting Unz, which was sad, who knows why? He never said himself. At least we can be fortunate that Ron Unz supports us.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @Dmitry

    Karlin hasn't taken this blog seriously since 2019 & you could argue it went downhill in 18.
    That co-incided with his life quality overall getting better, and getting involved in projects offline.

    I also think he enjoys being on twitter more than here, and the purges have affected him.
    He said on twitter he'll get back to bloggin soon, he ran through the theme of this blog & needs a refresh.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    , @silviosilver
    @Dmitry


    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don’t understand how he would care about white nationalists,
     
    I don't understand how so many white people care about the interests of black people either, but empirically it is a reality I have to accept. You need to accept that, similarly, it's possible - albeit far less common - for non-white people to care about white people too.

    Obviously there are hateful Hitler-worshiping skinhead types who would detest someone like AK, but it is not necessary to become a hardcore Hitler-worshiping skinhead if you care about white racial interests - as evidenced by the fact that most people who care about white racial interests do not become hateful Hitler-worshiping skinheads.

    Politically and socially, race is about numbers. Numbers determine virtually everything about how race is experienced. Also, the degree of racial difference can be conceptualized in terms of numbers (99% alike, 75% alike, 10% alike, etc). When numbers of racial outsiders are small, or their degree of difference is small, notions of "purity" are much less likely to arise. So an obvious patriot like AK could very easily be embraced even by those Russians who are concerned about their race. So there is no inherent reason that AK can't demonstrate some concern for Russian racial interests. After all, even "Middle Eastern looking dudes" like him have racial interest, whether they're willing to think seriously about them or not.

    Replies: @sher singh

  942. @German_reader
    @LatW


    The video of his speech before Stalingrad is showing many young Slavic men with adoring faces looking up to him. Where he, speaking with a mild Caucasian accent, references the ancient Russian heroes with the aim to bolster morale before the battle.
     
    I think that's the speech you're referring to (in Moscow, just before the counter-offensive in winter 1941):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbDMaimE5Es
    The reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky or Dmitry Donskoi near the end is pretty striking, or one could say cynical given all the Bolsheviks had done. I wonder how effective he was as a speaker (sadly can't judge it at all).

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky

    I would not say surprising or striking references, but more expected, considering the culture of the 1930s/1940s.

    E.g. You know the famous 1938, Eisenstein’s film with the music of Prokofiev? If you can ignore some of its anti-German bias, you have to see these if only for Prokofiev’s music, let alone Eisenstein’s incredible photography.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    You know this 1938, Eisenstein’s film with the music of Prokofiev?
     
    Yes, I've seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end). I know there was a somewhat "nationalist" turn to Soviet culture in the 1930s and 1940s with attempts to harken back to Russian imperial history. I still find it somewhat odd and contradictory, given how destructive Bolshevism had been of many Russian cultural and religious traditions.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @LatW

  943. @silviosilver
    @Svidomyatheart


    Your problem is you think all whites are on the same team.
     
    I don't believe that at all. I don't even believe in one biologically uniform white race, let alone that its members are all united. I don't expect you to have paid attention to my posts, but if you had been, there's no way you could draw such a mistaken conclusion about my beliefs.

    In fact, not only don't I consider myself a WN, I don't even consider myself "white" - not by traditional WN standards, which were and mostly remain a WASP/Nordicist kind of thing. Of course, nowadays they are much more relaxed about that standard, but I still think it's fair to say that the people who feel most energized and passionate about white identity are those who fit the original definition. It's too much hassle to preface my every post on race (99% of my posts lol) with a "health warning" that "The individual making the following statement may not meet your definition of white" so I just get to the point and figure I can provide background explanations as needed.

    Nevertheless, there are certain issue that do indeed affect all whites (or "whites"), whether they are WNs, whether they are "fully" white, or even whether they are anti-racists (like the insane leftards in the pics you posted). For example, my experiences with blacks leave me with no doubt as to how they classify me, so simply as a defensive measure I am forced to regard myself as white.

    Lastly, I regard racial identitarianism and racial separation (be it across continents, across countries, across cities or merely across neighborhoods) as the preeminent political objectives of our age. The way I encourage people to think about its benefits is not in terms who it allows you to unite with, but who it allows you separate from. Eg the fact that racial identitarianism and separation would allow me to separate from blacks means infinitely more to me than the possibility that it might separate me from WASPs.


    Have you read Thomas777?
     
    Yes, I have read many of his posts at various forums over the years. He certainly is a perceptive commentator, but I think his views - as I recall them, so my opinion may change after perusing the pdf you linked to - fit the mold of an older form of WN, that tended to view the racial predicament as whites vs everyone else, and to fixate on distinctions between superiority and inferiority, and to regard the world as hopelessly broken simply because it is wrong on race ("race is wrong, therefore everything is wrong"), and to look for "quick fix" solutions by hitting people up with crime and IQ stats in the hopes that this would encourage racial resentment ("look how criminal and stupid niggers are, don't you just hate them??").

    These notions are not completely without value, and they have something important to say about the world, but experience has surely proven that they are woefully inadequate both in terms of taking into consideration the general reactions they elicit (ie overwhelmingly negative reactions), as well as in terms of providing a practical way forward. Now, I am no saint, and I have fallen for some of these 'temptations' myself on numerous occasions - hey, I'm only human and it's bleak out there - so I don't want to come down on them too harshly. But I'm firmly convinced that the model of just getting whites angry enough and expecting they will spontaneously rise in racial rebellion is utterly bankrupt. It is assaulting the enemy where his defences are strongest, which is never wise.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    but I think his views – as I recall them, so my opinion may change after perusing the pdf you linked to

    Okay, so reading the pdf collation of his posts, I see I was wrong to ascribe the views I outlined to Thomas777. He was in debate with people from that milieu but it was incorrect to characterize him as belonging to it.

    Broadly, I would describe him as belonging to what I think of as the “deep Right.” For this set, race being wrong is not the origin of their conviction that everything is wrong; rather the converse: race being wrong is a symptom of everything else being wrong.

    The core of this view is that life should be something much grander than satisfying our physiological needs and distracting ourselves with ephemeral amusements. AK Open Threads are rife with expressions of this viewpoint. I am not particularly sympathetic to this view, and I find its outright dismissal of foundational liberal truisms too tiresome to deal with.

    I mean, take the notion of treating other people as equally as possible (but not more so!) or satisfying material wants by engaging in market exchange. Am I really supposed to believe that these are the fons et origo of all that ails us? Most deep rightists would actually argue they are. It’s like trying to debate a marxoid who is convinced that profit is necessarily evil. It’s too exhausting. CBF.

    • Replies: @sher singh
    @silviosilver

    It's a mix of psycotic tribalism and a decayed religious infra that's largely for profit.
    The first arising from the presence of blacks, and the 2nd being the general state of Southern Baptism.

    You have to respect their drive and initiative in the world's premiere police state - the USA.
    Regardless, you have to starve the beast so I cannot support America or American whites (any race).

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  944. German_reader says:
    @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    reference to ancient Russian heroes like Alexander Nevsky
     
    I would not say surprising or striking references, but more expected, considering the culture of the 1930s/1940s.

    E.g. You know the famous 1938, Eisenstein's film with the music of Prokofiev? If you can ignore some of its anti-German bias, you have to see these if only for Prokofiev's music, let alone Eisenstein's incredible photography.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1REYcSiiwXg

    Replies: @German_reader

    You know this 1938, Eisenstein’s film with the music of Prokofiev?

    Yes, I’ve seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end). I know there was a somewhat “nationalist” turn to Soviet culture in the 1930s and 1940s with attempts to harken back to Russian imperial history. I still find it somewhat odd and contradictory, given how destructive Bolshevism had been of many Russian cultural and religious traditions.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    somewhat odd and contradictory,
     
    Isn't it perhaps predictable when there is a revolution or change of government?*

    There will be counter-signaling for a few years against the symbols of the old regime, and then the underlying fashions are still the same, so the authorities will eventually return to a "business as usual".

    We see this in the 1990s, when the Soviet Union dissolves, there was the most counter-signaling against its sacred cows in the first term of Boris Yeltsin. There was a serious considering in the early 1990s even to remove Lenin from Red Square. But "winning" the election* in 1996, there is a cultural change in many ways, in the administration of Boris Yeltsin.

    For example, by 2000, there is the return of Alexandrov's national anthem (with some different lyrics), which cultural historians could probably view as a symbolic event - something like "this is the end of the detox against the old regime".

    Soviet "sacred cows" had only around 5 years of becoming really "sacrificial cows", before their sacred status had begun to re-emerge by the end of the decade.

    -

    *Well the "winning" of the "democratic" "election".

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @LatW
    @German_reader


    Yes, I’ve seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end).
     
    Btw... during the Baltic Crusade... it wasn't just all kinds of scary and crazy German vassals who waged war against Lithuania. In that crowd, there were knights even from Spain, from Frisia, from Sweden, Denmark. And.. from Pskov. The Russians from Pskov came with hope to get some loot and slaves. The looting and murdering was savage, but they weren't able to subdue Lithuania. :)

    Btw, as I already mentioned to Dmitry, there was a nice show called the Scarlet Sails in St Pete. The show includes a skit about the Teutonic Knights. They end up drowning but it's a pretty cool skit, it's a bit silly and maybe a bit Germanophobic, but I love those outfits. :) Btw, do you know where this silly image of Teutonic Knights wearing horned helmets comes from? They didn't wear those, did they? It must be a myth just like the viking horned helmet. They did have very impressive armor, ofc.

    It starts at 1:48.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2VKJVCEgA

    Replies: @German_reader

  945. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    In the Soviet Union, there had been created an illusion of panslavism, as well as panturkism, and pancaucasianism. But now in the last 30 years, the postsoviet world has collapsed into so many mutual quarrels, with the most intense violence within rather than between the categories slavisim, turkism and caucasianism...This mutual enmity that results from its collapse, throws a shadow against the fraternal illusions of the Soviet Union.
     
    Or perhaps, Putin's famous lament that the collapse of the Soviet Union really was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century has some merit, at least from a world security point of view?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    greatest geopolitical catastrophe

    It is not the “greatest geopolitical catastrophe” of the 20th century. (It is like a small inconvenience, compared to the First World War and Second World War).

    But its negative effects are continuing, and more long term and difficult to resolve than probably most peoples’ predictions at the time, who perhaps would not expect the problems to be almost intensifying after three decades.

    For example, in 2020, the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, was possibly most violent war in the world in that particular month (October 2020). And already 30 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, that former “fraternal peoples” are still dying for small differences in borders which resulted from this event.

  946. @German_reader
    @Svidomyatheart


    and with BLM Its all whites at the top through and through and not just da joos.
     
    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren't white. Frankly, I've always felt Karlin's thesis about "CRT as white supremacy" was one of his more trollish takes, and little more than a sign of his total alienation from Western societies (understandable given current geopolitical tensions).
    However, it's of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Svidomyatheart

    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren’t white.
    However, it’s of course true that white left-wingers are the major problem throughout the West, as without them all the poc ethno-activists would be getting nowhere with their projects.

    You know this well yourself, those minorities would be nothing without white patronage.

    by Michael Anton who is a conservative

    https://newcriterion.com/issues/2021/12/unprecedented

  947. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    You know this 1938, Eisenstein’s film with the music of Prokofiev?
     
    Yes, I've seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end). I know there was a somewhat "nationalist" turn to Soviet culture in the 1930s and 1940s with attempts to harken back to Russian imperial history. I still find it somewhat odd and contradictory, given how destructive Bolshevism had been of many Russian cultural and religious traditions.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @LatW

    somewhat odd and contradictory,

    Isn’t it perhaps predictable when there is a revolution or change of government?*

    There will be counter-signaling for a few years against the symbols of the old regime, and then the underlying fashions are still the same, so the authorities will eventually return to a “business as usual”.

    We see this in the 1990s, when the Soviet Union dissolves, there was the most counter-signaling against its sacred cows in the first term of Boris Yeltsin. There was a serious considering in the early 1990s even to remove Lenin from Red Square. But “winning” the election* in 1996, there is a cultural change in many ways, in the administration of Boris Yeltsin.

    For example, by 2000, there is the return of Alexandrov’s national anthem (with some different lyrics), which cultural historians could probably view as a symbolic event – something like “this is the end of the detox against the old regime”.

    Soviet “sacred cows” had only around 5 years of becoming really “sacrificial cows”, before their sacred status had begun to re-emerge by the end of the decade.

    *Well the “winning” of the “democratic” “election”.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    We see this in the 1990s, when the Soviet Union dissolves, there was the most counter-signaling against its sacred cows in the first term of Boris Yeltsin.
     
    Yes, but I'm not sure the situations are totally analogous, after all the people who've ruled Russia over the last 30 years mostly came out of late Soviet party and security elites, so it's not totally surprising they'd fall back to some extent on what they knew from their younger years. Whereas the October revolution and the civil war led to much greater discontinuities, with most of the old elite dead or fleeing into exile, and totally new elites coming to power (and of course eventually even most of the Old Bolsheviks would perish in Stalin's purges), and the pre-revolutionary system being presented in the most negative light possible (e.g. in another of Eisenstein's movies about the battleship Potemkin, where the demonstrating workers are cruelly shot down on the steps in Odessa). So the "nationalist" turn in Soviet culture in 1930s/40s is a bit surprising at first sight.
    (at least it seems to me, sorry if that's a bit of a naive take).

    Replies: @iffen

  948. German_reader says:
    @Dmitry
    @German_reader


    somewhat odd and contradictory,
     
    Isn't it perhaps predictable when there is a revolution or change of government?*

    There will be counter-signaling for a few years against the symbols of the old regime, and then the underlying fashions are still the same, so the authorities will eventually return to a "business as usual".

    We see this in the 1990s, when the Soviet Union dissolves, there was the most counter-signaling against its sacred cows in the first term of Boris Yeltsin. There was a serious considering in the early 1990s even to remove Lenin from Red Square. But "winning" the election* in 1996, there is a cultural change in many ways, in the administration of Boris Yeltsin.

    For example, by 2000, there is the return of Alexandrov's national anthem (with some different lyrics), which cultural historians could probably view as a symbolic event - something like "this is the end of the detox against the old regime".

    Soviet "sacred cows" had only around 5 years of becoming really "sacrificial cows", before their sacred status had begun to re-emerge by the end of the decade.

    -

    *Well the "winning" of the "democratic" "election".

    Replies: @German_reader

    We see this in the 1990s, when the Soviet Union dissolves, there was the most counter-signaling against its sacred cows in the first term of Boris Yeltsin.

    Yes, but I’m not sure the situations are totally analogous, after all the people who’ve ruled Russia over the last 30 years mostly came out of late Soviet party and security elites, so it’s not totally surprising they’d fall back to some extent on what they knew from their younger years. Whereas the October revolution and the civil war led to much greater discontinuities, with most of the old elite dead or fleeing into exile, and totally new elites coming to power (and of course eventually even most of the Old Bolsheviks would perish in Stalin’s purges), and the pre-revolutionary system being presented in the most negative light possible (e.g. in another of Eisenstein’s movies about the battleship Potemkin, where the demonstrating workers are cruelly shot down on the steps in Odessa). So the “nationalist” turn in Soviet culture in 1930s/40s is a bit surprising at first sight.
    (at least it seems to me, sorry if that’s a bit of a naive take).

    • Replies: @iffen
    @German_reader

    So the “nationalist” turn in Soviet culture in 1930s/40s is a bit surprising at first sight.

    Only surprising if you don't consider that the imperative was the maintenance and enhancement of Bolshevik power. They flip-flopped back and forth on the national identity question as was needed. They decided that they "needed" Russian nationalism in the late thirties and early forties. (Can't imagine why.) The pieces, and especially the people, were merely means to an end, not of value in and of themselves.

  949. sher singh says:
    @silviosilver
    @silviosilver


    but I think his views – as I recall them, so my opinion may change after perusing the pdf you linked to
     
    Okay, so reading the pdf collation of his posts, I see I was wrong to ascribe the views I outlined to Thomas777. He was in debate with people from that milieu but it was incorrect to characterize him as belonging to it.

    Broadly, I would describe him as belonging to what I think of as the "deep Right." For this set, race being wrong is not the origin of their conviction that everything is wrong; rather the converse: race being wrong is a symptom of everything else being wrong.

    The core of this view is that life should be something much grander than satisfying our physiological needs and distracting ourselves with ephemeral amusements. AK Open Threads are rife with expressions of this viewpoint. I am not particularly sympathetic to this view, and I find its outright dismissal of foundational liberal truisms too tiresome to deal with.

    I mean, take the notion of treating other people as equally as possible (but not more so!) or satisfying material wants by engaging in market exchange. Am I really supposed to believe that these are the fons et origo of all that ails us? Most deep rightists would actually argue they are. It's like trying to debate a marxoid who is convinced that profit is necessarily evil. It's too exhausting. CBF.

    Replies: @sher singh

    It’s a mix of psycotic tribalism and a decayed religious infra that’s largely for profit.
    The first arising from the presence of blacks, and the 2nd being the general state of Southern Baptism.

    You have to respect their drive and initiative in the world’s premiere police state – the USA.
    Regardless, you have to starve the beast so I cannot support America or American whites (any race).

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  950. sher singh says:
    @Dmitry
    @silviosilver

    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don't understand how he would care about white nationalists, even if only pretending to be, to create provocacy that generates a few clicks. White nationalists are one of the few groups in society who would be quite likely to beat him in the street.

    His views are Russian imperialism, which is not really a much related worldview to white nationalism.

    As for Karlin quitting Unz, which was sad, who knows why? He never said himself. At least we can be fortunate that Ron Unz supports us.

    Replies: @sher singh, @silviosilver

    Karlin hasn’t taken this blog seriously since 2019 & you could argue it went downhill in 18.
    That co-incided with his life quality overall getting better, and getting involved in projects offline.

    I also think he enjoys being on twitter more than here, and the purges have affected him.
    He said on twitter he’ll get back to bloggin soon, he ran through the theme of this blog & needs a refresh.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  951. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    We see this in the 1990s, when the Soviet Union dissolves, there was the most counter-signaling against its sacred cows in the first term of Boris Yeltsin.
     
    Yes, but I'm not sure the situations are totally analogous, after all the people who've ruled Russia over the last 30 years mostly came out of late Soviet party and security elites, so it's not totally surprising they'd fall back to some extent on what they knew from their younger years. Whereas the October revolution and the civil war led to much greater discontinuities, with most of the old elite dead or fleeing into exile, and totally new elites coming to power (and of course eventually even most of the Old Bolsheviks would perish in Stalin's purges), and the pre-revolutionary system being presented in the most negative light possible (e.g. in another of Eisenstein's movies about the battleship Potemkin, where the demonstrating workers are cruelly shot down on the steps in Odessa). So the "nationalist" turn in Soviet culture in 1930s/40s is a bit surprising at first sight.
    (at least it seems to me, sorry if that's a bit of a naive take).

    Replies: @iffen

    So the “nationalist” turn in Soviet culture in 1930s/40s is a bit surprising at first sight.

    Only surprising if you don’t consider that the imperative was the maintenance and enhancement of Bolshevik power. They flip-flopped back and forth on the national identity question as was needed. They decided that they “needed” Russian nationalism in the late thirties and early forties. (Can’t imagine why.) The pieces, and especially the people, were merely means to an end, not of value in and of themselves.

  952. Finally watched The Battle at Lake Changjin IMO, they probably should have cut at least 40 minutes from it and added a bit more screen time for the Americans.

    Surprised to say this, but I actually learned a few things by watching the film, such as I didn’t realize that the US bombed China.

    One thing that made me scratch my head was why they kept saying that the guys they were up against had fought in Siberia. 1918-1919 seems like a long time before 1950. Couldn’t figure out whether they were trying to make them seem like formidable cold weather fighters, or whether it had entered into the propaganda of the day, that they had already fought communists.

  953. @Svidomyatheart
    @silviosilver

    Blacks have no political power without their masters and the US being a black ethnostate would collapse if whites began to self segregate and limit gibs. Which isnt happening, America chose the Empire path long ago and last chance to resist that was when your granddad was marched under bayonets for forceful integration.

    Worshipping black people has been a yank religion for centuries which goes far back. New England preachers from the 1600s already talked about the nobility of the slave and the Indian.


    Look US has a white people problem. If it didn't, Whiteoids would have a cohesive bloc that would act almost entirely in unison in a multiracial state like the USA, which is not happening time soon.
    A big chunk of whiteoids actively hate their own race. What's so hard to understand?

    https://i.imgur.com/YL89CZM.png


    I dont really like using memes and obscure twitter posts but my deficient English makes it so its easier to get my point across. There is a reason why these retarded memes exist.

    https://i.imgur.com/T39kDhr.jpg


    https://i.imgur.com/LpFPrX0.png

    These AWFLs and childless women are mentally ill and to fill the void in their lives they take up blacks as their "pets" and kids. But it isnt just women, men are like that too.
    Lol they will be devoured by their own "children."

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Shortsword, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    I suspect that women who are manic signal more and more insanely, during periods of mania.

    Incidentally, I’m not sure that the real purpose of civilization is to prevent men from killing each other, so much as it is to ground crazy, old women and prevent them from harming others, especially young women.

    One unconsidered reason for the fall of the West, might be how plenty caused girls to enter pubescence earlier, increasing the net estrogen of society.

  954. I’ve said in the past that I believe it would be good to encourage harmless Eastern superstitions like the zodiac to take the place of harmful Western superstitions like the idea that blacks are being kept down by racism.

    Another idea – frankly, I am reluctant to propose this because I quite like beef – might be to make cows sacred like in India, and get liberals to worship them, instead of blacks, by releasing them into cities, and then turning public opinion against the people who will be using them for target practice (blacks.)

    Maybe, special black cows, blacker than blacks and with afros, can be bred so as to use as a relief valve for color signaling. Expect every commercial to have a white milkmaid and a black-afro cow. (Wonder how they will make them the protagonists in movies). Anyway, it will be a butter-and-cheese utopia.

    • LOL: Barbarossa
  955. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @German_reader


    Kimberle Crenshaw, Nikole-Hannah Jones and countless other BLM activists aren’t white.
     
    The NAACP and ACLU have been Jewish controlled and financed from Day 0. The Negro civil rights movement in the United States has always been a Jewish project. It is K. McDonald and E. Michael Jones' Exhibit A. BLM is not funded by collecting coins in coffee cans at Black Panther barbeques.

    Replies: @A123

    The NAACP and ACLU have been Jewish controlled and financed from Day 0. The Negro civil rights movement in the United States has always been a Jewish project.

    Organizations can change (or be hijacked) over time. Regardless of its roots, the ACLU is now *against* the things it was formed to protect. Look at their authoritarian defense of BigPharma and state control for WUHAN-19: (1)

    Having turned civil liberties on its head, the ACLU now argues that, “The real threat to civil liberties comes from states banning vaccine and mask mandates.”

    And, indeed, the ACLU is suing states who ban schools from forcing children to wear masks.

    The real threat from civil liberties now comes from championing civil liberties. The old ACLU is a threat to the new ACLU which redefines civil liberties as the deprivation of civil liberties.

    There is a surreal hypocrisy in the ACLU abandoning all its old beliefs to argue that “rights are not absolute” and that there are “justifiable intrusion(s) on autonomy and bodily integrity” for the public good.

    The ACLU is now an openly anti-Jewish organization: (2)

    “The anti-Semitic BDS Hate Movement has no greater asset today than the sophisticated legal support it receives from the American Civil Liberties Union,” said Arizona state senator Paul Boyer (R.), who sponsored anti-boycott legislation that was challenged by the ACLU, in a statement to the Washington Free Beacon. “The ACLU’s efforts in this matter showcase a stunning embrace of anti-Jewish bigotry and blatant hypocrisy that all civil libertarians should reject.”

    The ACLU has “adopted a schizophrenic approach to anti-discrimination laws, challenging those laws meant to protect Jewish Americans” while “defending all other anti-discrimination laws, even those that compel speech that violates the religious beliefs of many Americans,” said the Zachor Legal Institute’s Marc Greendorfer, whose group compiled a report outlining the advocacy efforts of the ACLU in recent years.

    The Zachor Legal Institute report noted that the ACLU objected to people linking COVID-19 to China last year due to fears that anti-China commentary would lead to hate crimes against Asian Americans.

    ACLU deputy legal director Cecillia Wang wrote last year that terms such as “Wuhan virus” could “lead to dangerous scapegoating and widespread ignorance, just when accurate public health information is critically needed” and encourage “racism and overt acts of harassment and violence against Asian Americans.”

    ACLU staffers have also spoken out in favor of BDS and partnered with BDS activist groups.

    Please continue to criticize groups such as ACLU and SPLC. However, you should not misidentify them as Jewish.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄
    ________________________

    (1) https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/09/aclu-goes-war-against-pandemic-civil-rights-daniel-greenfield/

    (2) https://freebeacon.com/courts/aclu-becomes-top-legal-defender-of-anti-semitic-bds-campaign/

  956. Wh0 really stands to benefit from the BBB bill? Who really likes it? Why is there virtually no discussion about any of the particulars about this bill within the media? Watch this to find out:

    Amazing stuff folks – HOW RIDICULOUS CAN THIS GOVERNMENT GET?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mr. Hack

    Fortunately, it looks like "Build Back Blunder" will not clear the Senate. Now that the actual contents of the bill are known, it is stuck. ​Democrats have the trifecta (Presidency, House, and Senate). In practice, The Squad has pushed them into policies that are so crazy they cannot pass.

    This illustrates some of the issues that Trump's 1st term faced. MAGA policies proposed by Trump were obviously much saner than the BBB gibberish. However, there are Constitutional restrictions on what Executive Authority can deliver. The Republican Party's transformation from GOP(e) swamp to Christian MAGA Populism is still a work in progress. Focus should be on the midterms, not potential Presidential candidates.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  957. Before Germany shuts down its nuclear power plants, they should pretend that something went wrong with the process, that they are all going into meltdown at the same time, that the fallout will be blown into all the welfare states of Europe, and then give blacks, Arabs, and atomophobes preference during evacuation, to Africa.

    • LOL: Yellowface Anon
  958. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm glad to hear that you have been spending some well deserved time with family.

    I hope that you don't think I'm antagonizing you in any any way. If it seems like I'm jibing you, it's intended as more of a friendly ribbing. As I've mentioned in the past, I do enjoy your presence as a commenter, even if I sometime disagree.

    I had actually meant to reply to our last conversation where you enjoined me to direct my discontent in a more productive direction.

    This is naturally a question that I've spent quite a bit of time on, without any real assurance that I can discern the correct answer.
    What I have broadly come to is that we are in a crisis that is social and spiritual at it's core, not political. Statism has overwhelmed all other competing power centers in society such as religion and the family which no longer function as motive forces on society. Instead, religion and the family have become essentially reactive forces, limited to whatever scope the State accords them.

    So, I don't see much real help coming from national politics, whether it's Trump or someone else. I'm happy to vote for people who will be less bad, such as Trump, but I feel that political improvements will be limited and temporary at best. Part of me also feels that the inevitable woke collapse is best accelerated and that the sooner the current system suffers a full meltdown the better. I basically think that most of institutions have reached such a level of hopeless rot that only full scale collapse and rebuilding can accomplish much.

    As such, I put the bulk of my efforts into things that I can have a direct effect on. My land, my family, and especially my children and their formation take paramount importance. Also building the local relationships and friendships which create a really strong and interconnected community. I think that these will be necessary in the nearer future than many may expect, and I am hoping that myself and a lot of people around me can continue to prosper as much as possible as the American Empire continues it's slide into irrelevance. With any luck, out of the way corners of America like mine will be able to maintain the blueprint for what it means to have a family or feel loyalty to a community and a particular corner of the world.

    Sometimes, I feel that far too much attention is paid to national politics and if the past couple generations had paid more attention to their kid's upbringing than who is on some national ticket we would be in a somewhat better place today.



    One way I think about this is in relation to abortion. Conservatives have obsessed about getting a Supreme Court roster that would allow for the repeal of Roe v. Wade, and indeed look like that may soon yield results. I would be glad to see Roe repealed but if there is no wider culture present which rejects abortion it will make little difference on the state level.
    By the same token, if Roe had really been groundbreaking it would have never been tolerated by the citizenry. Instead, Roe was merely codifying into law a shift which had already taken place in the culture.

    I hope that helps illuminate my general outlook and priorities. I have no idea if it's truly the best course, but it seems the best available with what resources are at my disposal.

    Replies: @A123

    Statism has overwhelmed all other competing power centers in society such as religion and the family which no longer function as motive forces on society. Instead, religion and the family have become essentially reactive forces, limited to whatever scope the State accords them.

    So, I don’t see much real help coming from national politics, whether it’s Trump or someone else. I’m happy to vote for people who will be less bad, such as Trump, but I feel that political improvements will be limited and temporary at best. Part of me also feels that the inevitable woke collapse is best accelerated and that the sooner the current system suffers a full meltdown the better. I basically think that most of institutions have reached such a level of hopeless rot that only full scale collapse and rebuilding can accomplish much.

    I largely agree with your view of the current situation.

    SJW Globalism needs needs an unquestioning populace to believe in its dogma. In the U.S., the Constitution was twisted to drive Christianity out of the public spaces. The Fake Stream Media is equally culpable, and strictly speaking that is not “Statism”. Unelected Elites have suborned national sovereignty.
    ___

    As to the future, perhaps I am too optimistic. I do not see collapse as inevitable or necessary. A bright light is shining on the consequences of Wokeism, such as the collapse of civil order in Portland and Minneapolis. People do not want that future for their communities.

    “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.” P. T. Barnum

    MAGA offers an opportunity for real change away from UN/NWO Globalist rule. They key is realizing it took decades of incrementalism to dig the hole in which we find ourselves. It will take more than a single, 4 year, Presidential term to fill in the chasm.

    In many ways the “non-State” threats are the largest problem. How does one eradicate Lügenpresse collaborators spreading misinformation? They are theoretically private media firms even though they are essential to the Elite super-state.

    Also, some of the key problems are not federal. There will be battles on many fronts, such as local DA’s and school boards. There will not be 100% success from every engagement. One does not surrender the overall war because a single fight did not come out as hoped.

    🎄 Merry Christmas 🎄

  959. @Mr. Hack
    Wh0 really stands to benefit from the BBB bill? Who really likes it? Why is there virtually no discussion about any of the particulars about this bill within the media? Watch this to find out:

    https://youtu.be/S1mkNFzgVoQ

    Amazing stuff folks - HOW RIDICULOUS CAN THIS GOVERNMENT GET?

    Replies: @A123

    Fortunately, it looks like “Build Back Blunder” will not clear the Senate. Now that the actual contents of the bill are known, it is stuck. ​Democrats have the trifecta (Presidency, House, and Senate). In practice, The Squad has pushed them into policies that are so crazy they cannot pass.

    This illustrates some of the issues that Trump’s 1st term faced. MAGA policies proposed by Trump were obviously much saner than the BBB gibberish. However, there are Constitutional restrictions on what Executive Authority can deliver. The Republican Party’s transformation from GOP(e) swamp to Christian MAGA Populism is still a work in progress. Focus should be on the midterms, not potential Presidential candidates.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  960. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I love Schwarzer Peter and the traditions regarding him.

    Replies: @songbird

    The traditional grab of the Morris dancers were cancelled recently in the UK:

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/12/29/english-morris-dancers-black-face-paint-cancelled-after-racism-allegations/
    _____________
    Any predictions for the new year? Probably be an interesting one, what with the price of fertilizer skyrocketing.

  961. @German_reader
    @LatW


    He is not in any way pro-Nazi, he has stated many times that the German victory wouldn’t have resulted in anything good for Eastern Europeans.
     
    Certainly not, but iirc he's skeptical about some of the more extreme claims regarding Generalplan Ost. He's also questioned the official number of Soviet war dead of 27 million.
    I've also read a German translation of an interview he once gave in a Polish newspaper, about the subject of expulsions of Germans in 1944/45. He claimed many war crimes weren't committed by regular Red army soldiers, but by special NKVD teams acting on Stalin's orders, to secure the planned population movements and border changes. That seemed a bit speculative to me, and it didn't seem like he could really base those claims on firm evidence from archives.
    So not pro-Nazi, and probably a patriot in his own way (I think he does have great respect for the achievements and sacrifice of the Red army in WW2), but he does touch on a lot of issues which are probably considered taboo again in Russia nowadays.

    Replies: @LatW

    Certainly not, but iirc he’s skeptical about some of the more extreme claims regarding Generalplan Ost.

    When asked what the German victory would be like, he said something like the new environment would be “Orwellian”. However, in one of his interviews he mentioned something about village or a group of villages in Russia, under German occupation, where life had apparently been bearable and almost somewhat good. So from that one may conclude that he doesn’t view this as black and white, possibly those who would not have resisted could’ve been spared, especially since there were way more Slavs than Germans.

    I’ve also read a German translation of an interview he once gave in a Polish newspaper, about the subject of expulsions of Germans in 1944/45. He claimed many war crimes weren’t committed by regular Red army soldiers, but by special NKVD teams acting on Stalin’s orders, to secure the planned population movements and border changes. That seemed a bit speculative to me, and it didn’t seem like he could really base those claims on firm evidence from archives.

    Well, while sinister, that doesn’t seem outside of the realm of possibility but it would be interesting to see what he’s basing that on. It definitely does seem like Stalin’s MO and it makes sense if you look at how things are today in that neighborhood. Although there was a lot of chaos so hard to say how “planned” things were overall.

    So not pro-Nazi, and probably a patriot in his own way (I think he does have great respect for the achievements and sacrifice of the Red army in WW2),

    He’s definitely a Russian patriot. He just leans heavily anti-Soviet and a bit on the conservative side. He’s a seeker of truth. I think his biggest beef is all these governments that have ruled over Russians in such a course and uncaring, unjust way.

    but he does touch on a lot of issues which are probably considered taboo again in Russia nowadays.

    Yes. He even claimed that the Leningrad blockade was not a real blockade because a route could be opened from the lake Ladoga direction (before the Road of Life was opened), all those people died of starvation largely because food and provision was just not prioritized among the loads of other cargo that was coming into the city (manufacturing continued there). This is the kind of angle that Russians simply don’t want to hear. Partly because there were so many victims (Putin’s older brother died there, too), and partly because they are the victors and they maintain a victor, not victim narrative. That so many people died partly because of the misplaced priorities of their own government, is something they don’t want to hear. Who would?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @LatW


    However, in one of his interviews he mentioned something about village or a group of villages in Russia, under German occupation, where life had apparently been bearable and almost somewhat good.
     
    Maybe the Lokot autonomy? That was an experiment by a comparatively moderate Wehrmacht general Rudolf Schmidt, who thought Germany could only win (or at least avoid defeat) through at least some form of cooperation with Soviet civilians and giving them a stake in a German order. There were some such voices in the Wehrmacht, and also in some other institutions like the foreign ministry. But of course Hitler, Himmler and other Nazi leaders had very different ideas. I think some of the claims about Generalplan Ost (like the alleged plans for physical extermination of dozens of millions) are possibly exaggerated (though hard to be sure), but the order after a German victory would in all probability have been quite tyrannical and based on a harsh form of German supremacy (probably it wouldn't have been good for Latvians either, iirc there was no plan to grant Latvian statehood again, so Latvians were caught between two really negative alternatives).

    it would be interesting to see what he’s basing that on.
     
    tbh I think he was just basing that on general impressions, because he thought some of the war crimes that are alleged to have happened were so extreme in his opinion that he thinks it might have been a deliberate policy to spread terror (like people being nailed to barn doors and the like...though I don't think it's even clear how much of that actually happened, some of the more lurid claims are probably myths). Personally I'm a bit skeptical, since there doesn't seem to be any hard evidence for it and the more prosaic explanations seem sufficient to me.

    Yes. He even claimed that the Leningrad blockade was not a real blockade
     
    I think it's usually claimed (at least by Western historians) that Soviet authorities could and should have evacuated more people from Leningrad. Though it's true that Wehrmacht pursued a starvation policy in its siege (iirc there was even deliberate artillery shelling of food depots and the like; and there were orders to shoot starving civilians if they attempted a break-out), and Hitler wanted the city destroyed. And certainly there was a lot of heroism among the defenders of Leningrad. So it's probably a very difficult subject for criticism of the Soviet government, because it could be easily presented as Nazi apologetics or lack of patriotism.
  962. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    You know this 1938, Eisenstein’s film with the music of Prokofiev?
     
    Yes, I've seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end). I know there was a somewhat "nationalist" turn to Soviet culture in the 1930s and 1940s with attempts to harken back to Russian imperial history. I still find it somewhat odd and contradictory, given how destructive Bolshevism had been of many Russian cultural and religious traditions.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @LatW

    Yes, I’ve seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end).

    Btw… during the Baltic Crusade… it wasn’t just all kinds of scary and crazy German vassals who waged war against Lithuania. In that crowd, there were knights even from Spain, from Frisia, from Sweden, Denmark. And.. from Pskov. The Russians from Pskov came with hope to get some loot and slaves. The looting and murdering was savage, but they weren’t able to subdue Lithuania. 🙂

    Btw, as I already mentioned to Dmitry, there was a nice show called the Scarlet Sails in St Pete. The show includes a skit about the Teutonic Knights. They end up drowning but it’s a pretty cool skit, it’s a bit silly and maybe a bit Germanophobic, but I love those outfits. 🙂 Btw, do you know where this silly image of Teutonic Knights wearing horned helmets comes from? They didn’t wear those, did they? It must be a myth just like the viking horned helmet. They did have very impressive armor, ofc.

    It starts at 1:48.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @LatW


    In that crowd, there were knights even from Spain, from Frisia, from Sweden, Denmark.
     
    I know, it was a bit like military tourism for Western European nobles. The future king of England Henry IV still went there on one of the last crusades in the late 1380s.
    That's a pretty entertaining video with those knights (though I'm not sure what's that lightning or whatever it is emanating from the sword is supposed to mean), thanks for posting :-) Don't know for sure about the helmets, but I also strongly suspect the horns aren't historically accurate.
  963. German_reader says:
    @LatW
    @German_reader


    Certainly not, but iirc he’s skeptical about some of the more extreme claims regarding Generalplan Ost.
     
    When asked what the German victory would be like, he said something like the new environment would be "Orwellian". However, in one of his interviews he mentioned something about village or a group of villages in Russia, under German occupation, where life had apparently been bearable and almost somewhat good. So from that one may conclude that he doesn't view this as black and white, possibly those who would not have resisted could've been spared, especially since there were way more Slavs than Germans.

    I’ve also read a German translation of an interview he once gave in a Polish newspaper, about the subject of expulsions of Germans in 1944/45. He claimed many war crimes weren’t committed by regular Red army soldiers, but by special NKVD teams acting on Stalin’s orders, to secure the planned population movements and border changes. That seemed a bit speculative to me, and it didn’t seem like he could really base those claims on firm evidence from archives.
     
    Well, while sinister, that doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility but it would be interesting to see what he's basing that on. It definitely does seem like Stalin's MO and it makes sense if you look at how things are today in that neighborhood. Although there was a lot of chaos so hard to say how "planned" things were overall.


    So not pro-Nazi, and probably a patriot in his own way (I think he does have great respect for the achievements and sacrifice of the Red army in WW2),
     
    He's definitely a Russian patriot. He just leans heavily anti-Soviet and a bit on the conservative side. He's a seeker of truth. I think his biggest beef is all these governments that have ruled over Russians in such a course and uncaring, unjust way.


    but he does touch on a lot of issues which are probably considered taboo again in Russia nowadays.
     
    Yes. He even claimed that the Leningrad blockade was not a real blockade because a route could be opened from the lake Ladoga direction (before the Road of Life was opened), all those people died of starvation largely because food and provision was just not prioritized among the loads of other cargo that was coming into the city (manufacturing continued there). This is the kind of angle that Russians simply don't want to hear. Partly because there were so many victims (Putin's older brother died there, too), and partly because they are the victors and they maintain a victor, not victim narrative. That so many people died partly because of the misplaced priorities of their own government, is something they don't want to hear. Who would?

    Replies: @German_reader

    However, in one of his interviews he mentioned something about village or a group of villages in Russia, under German occupation, where life had apparently been bearable and almost somewhat good.

    Maybe the Lokot autonomy? That was an experiment by a comparatively moderate Wehrmacht general Rudolf Schmidt, who thought Germany could only win (or at least avoid defeat) through at least some form of cooperation with Soviet civilians and giving them a stake in a German order. There were some such voices in the Wehrmacht, and also in some other institutions like the foreign ministry. But of course Hitler, Himmler and other Nazi leaders had very different ideas. I think some of the claims about Generalplan Ost (like the alleged plans for physical extermination of dozens of millions) are possibly exaggerated (though hard to be sure), but the order after a German victory would in all probability have been quite tyrannical and based on a harsh form of German supremacy (probably it wouldn’t have been good for Latvians either, iirc there was no plan to grant Latvian statehood again, so Latvians were caught between two really negative alternatives).

    it would be interesting to see what he’s basing that on.

    tbh I think he was just basing that on general impressions, because he thought some of the war crimes that are alleged to have happened were so extreme in his opinion that he thinks it might have been a deliberate policy to spread terror (like people being nailed to barn doors and the like…though I don’t think it’s even clear how much of that actually happened, some of the more lurid claims are probably myths). Personally I’m a bit skeptical, since there doesn’t seem to be any hard evidence for it and the more prosaic explanations seem sufficient to me.

    Yes. He even claimed that the Leningrad blockade was not a real blockade

    I think it’s usually claimed (at least by Western historians) that Soviet authorities could and should have evacuated more people from Leningrad. Though it’s true that Wehrmacht pursued a starvation policy in its siege (iirc there was even deliberate artillery shelling of food depots and the like; and there were orders to shoot starving civilians if they attempted a break-out), and Hitler wanted the city destroyed. And certainly there was a lot of heroism among the defenders of Leningrad. So it’s probably a very difficult subject for criticism of the Soviet government, because it could be easily presented as Nazi apologetics or lack of patriotism.

  964. German_reader says:
    @LatW
    @German_reader


    Yes, I’ve seen it, great movie (and unfortunately somewhat prescient about those Teutonic knights, both regarding their cruelty and their grotesque end).
     
    Btw... during the Baltic Crusade... it wasn't just all kinds of scary and crazy German vassals who waged war against Lithuania. In that crowd, there were knights even from Spain, from Frisia, from Sweden, Denmark. And.. from Pskov. The Russians from Pskov came with hope to get some loot and slaves. The looting and murdering was savage, but they weren't able to subdue Lithuania. :)

    Btw, as I already mentioned to Dmitry, there was a nice show called the Scarlet Sails in St Pete. The show includes a skit about the Teutonic Knights. They end up drowning but it's a pretty cool skit, it's a bit silly and maybe a bit Germanophobic, but I love those outfits. :) Btw, do you know where this silly image of Teutonic Knights wearing horned helmets comes from? They didn't wear those, did they? It must be a myth just like the viking horned helmet. They did have very impressive armor, ofc.

    It starts at 1:48.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2VKJVCEgA

    Replies: @German_reader

    In that crowd, there were knights even from Spain, from Frisia, from Sweden, Denmark.

    I know, it was a bit like military tourism for Western European nobles. The future king of England Henry IV still went there on one of the last crusades in the late 1380s.
    That’s a pretty entertaining video with those knights (though I’m not sure what’s that lightning or whatever it is emanating from the sword is supposed to mean), thanks for posting 🙂 Don’t know for sure about the helmets, but I also strongly suspect the horns aren’t historically accurate.

  965. @Dmitry
    @silviosilver

    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don't understand how he would care about white nationalists, even if only pretending to be, to create provocacy that generates a few clicks. White nationalists are one of the few groups in society who would be quite likely to beat him in the street.

    His views are Russian imperialism, which is not really a much related worldview to white nationalism.

    As for Karlin quitting Unz, which was sad, who knows why? He never said himself. At least we can be fortunate that Ron Unz supports us.

    Replies: @sher singh, @silviosilver

    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don’t understand how he would care about white nationalists,

    I don’t understand how so many white people care about the interests of black people either, but empirically it is a reality I have to accept. You need to accept that, similarly, it’s possible – albeit far less common – for non-white people to care about white people too.

    Obviously there are hateful Hitler-worshiping skinhead types who would detest someone like AK, but it is not necessary to become a hardcore Hitler-worshiping skinhead if you care about white racial interests – as evidenced by the fact that most people who care about white racial interests do not become hateful Hitler-worshiping skinheads.

    Politically and socially, race is about numbers. Numbers determine virtually everything about how race is experienced. Also, the degree of racial difference can be conceptualized in terms of numbers (99% alike, 75% alike, 10% alike, etc). When numbers of racial outsiders are small, or their degree of difference is small, notions of “purity” are much less likely to arise. So an obvious patriot like AK could very easily be embraced even by those Russians who are concerned about their race. So there is no inherent reason that AK can’t demonstrate some concern for Russian racial interests. After all, even “Middle Eastern looking dudes” like him have racial interest, whether they’re willing to think seriously about them or not.

    • Agree: sher singh
    • Replies: @sher singh
    @silviosilver

    Clannish people get it, Germanics who are individualist-universalist can't. Only black-white thinking.

  966. @silviosilver
    @Dmitry


    Karlin is a Middle Eastern looking dude (If you saw he made some interviews in YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ZZuIgzPQc.), so I don’t understand how he would care about white nationalists,
     
    I don't understand how so many white people care about the interests of black people either, but empirically it is a reality I have to accept. You need to accept that, similarly, it's possible - albeit far less common - for non-white people to care about white people too.

    Obviously there are hateful Hitler-worshiping skinhead types who would detest someone like AK, but it is not necessary to become a hardcore Hitler-worshiping skinhead if you care about white racial interests - as evidenced by the fact that most people who care about white racial interests do not become hateful Hitler-worshiping skinheads.

    Politically and socially, race is about numbers. Numbers determine virtually everything about how race is experienced. Also, the degree of racial difference can be conceptualized in terms of numbers (99% alike, 75% alike, 10% alike, etc). When numbers of racial outsiders are small, or their degree of difference is small, notions of "purity" are much less likely to arise. So an obvious patriot like AK could very easily be embraced even by those Russians who are concerned about their race. So there is no inherent reason that AK can't demonstrate some concern for Russian racial interests. After all, even "Middle Eastern looking dudes" like him have racial interest, whether they're willing to think seriously about them or not.

    Replies: @sher singh

    Clannish people get it, Germanics who are individualist-universalist can’t. Only black-white thinking.

  967. I created another new thread for all of you, moving a few of the most recent comments to get it started:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-172/

    Happy New Year to everyone….

    • Thanks: German_reader, Barbarossa
  968. @A123
    Iran destroys more of Lebanon

    The Nasrallah-shima blast where Iranian Hezbollah destroyed the Beirut Port was apparently not enough.

    Now Iranian Hamas has also blown up part of Lebanon near the Port of Tyre: (1)


    "Initial reports suggested the incident began with a fire in a diesel tanker before spreading to a nearby mosque controlled by Hamas," Deutsche Welle and various agencies wrote.

    "Footage shared by local media showed a number of small, bright red flashes above the port city, followed by a blast and the sound of glass shattering," the report added.
    ...

    "Hamas maintains a presence in a number of Palestinian camps in Lebanon," said Al Jazeera. "The NNA said the army cordoned off the area, preventing people from entering or leaving the camp."
     

    How many more must die before Iran leaves Lebanon?

    Is a partition inevitable?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/huge-blast-rocks-refugee-camp-lebanon-large-casualties-feared

    https://twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1469390921238208512?s=20

    Replies: @Jim Christian, @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Perhaps the MOST Evil Sabbat Goy, ever, gloating over the prospect of civil war in Lebanon. The Zionazis really attract the scum de la scum.

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