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来自洛杉矶时报
研究发现基因使犹太人与众不同
主要研究遗传疾病的研究人员表示，欧洲血统的人彼此之间的关系比与同胞之间的关系更为密切。托马斯·H·莫二世 (Thomas H. Maugh II)，《洛杉矶时报》
根据有史以来关于犹太人基因意义的最大规模研究，居住在地球两端的欧洲血统犹太人彼此之间的关系比他们与同胞之间的关系更为密切。研究发现，德系犹太人是欧洲犹太人的主要后裔，他们的血缘关系就像第四或第五代表兄弟姐妹一样密切。
很高兴看到一篇新闻报道终于暗示了我自 1990 世纪 XNUMX 年代末以来一直在说的话：一个种族群体是一个 部分近亲繁殖的大家庭.
早在 1990 世纪 XNUMX 年代，弗兰克·索尔特 (Frank Salter) 可能就发明了这种用表兄弟姐妹来思考种族相关性的方法。它非常有用，但毫不奇怪，必须从相对论的角度来理解它。
“犹太人确实与他们的非犹太邻居不同，”纽约大学朗格尼医学中心的遗传学家哈里·奥斯特雷博士说，他是周四发表在《美国人类遗传学杂志》上的这项研究的合著者。
他补充说，正如一些专家所说，他们的差异还不足以被视为一个独立的种族，但他们绝对是一个“独特的群体”——这可能是数千年来文化分离的结果。
有人真的知道定义“不同种族”与“不同人群”的无可争议的标准是什么吗？在我看来，生物学家很难确定狗、狼和土狼是否是不同的物种，也很难对不同种族和不同种群之间的差异做出权威的判断。采用我的术语会更简单、更清楚：犹太人是一个部分近亲繁殖的大家庭。
这项研究主要是为了加深对遗传疾病的医学了解，拒绝了一个极具争议的观点，即德系犹太人是东欧皈依犹太教的可萨人的后裔——这一观点最近被用来试图抹黑以下观点：犹太人属于以色列，因为这是他们的历史家园。
未参与研究的宾夕法尼亚大学遗传学家莎拉·A·蒂什科夫 (Sarah A. Tishkoff) 表示，这项研究表明，“地理上不同的人群之间显然存在着与口头传统和文化相一致的共同基因祖先……而且这可以追溯到中东”。在研究中。 “犹太人在某种程度上已经同化，但他们显然保留了共同的血统。” ……
尽管这项研究揭示了犹太历史——提供了关于 2,500 年前北非和欧洲犹太人之间的分离以及欧洲犹太人在中世纪几近灭绝的新信息——但其主要目标是识别许多更常见疾病的基因。在犹太群体中，例如乳腺癌、戈谢病和泰萨克斯病。
纽约叶史瓦大学阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦医学院的遗传学家吉尔·阿兹蒙（Gil Atzmon）说，“亚伯拉罕的孩子”中这些疾病的发病率较高，这将使科学家能够更容易地找到导致这些疾病的基因，然后将这些知识推广到普通人群。的纸张。
该研究调查了来自世界七个地区的 237 名犹太人，并将他们与来自同一地区的 418 名非犹太人进行了比较。每个犹太受试者的四位祖父母都来自同一人口。
因此，这项研究排除了只有部分犹太人血统的人。了解当今自认为是犹太人的人中自认为是犹太祖父母的人所占的比例不超过四人，这将是一件很有趣的事情。相反，不认为自己是犹太人的美国人中至少有一位犹太祖父母的比例是多少？
研究人员研究了整个基因组中约 160,000 个位点，提供了比以往更多的有关人群的信息。 ……
据考古学家称，犹太人起源于公元前四世纪至公元前六世纪的巴比伦和波斯。
该理论认为，知识分子在巴比伦的温室囚禁导致了希伯来人作为一个有自我意识的民族的出现。
研究发现，与原住民关系最密切的现代犹太人是伊朗、伊拉克和叙利亚的犹太人，其最亲近的非犹太亲属是德鲁兹人、贝都因人和巴勒斯坦人。
平均而言，今天讲阿拉伯语的巴勒斯坦人与公元 1 年巴勒斯坦的犹太居民的关系很可能比目前以色列的犹太居民的关系更为密切。 （在詹姆斯·米切纳关于以色列考古发掘的小说中， 书中的一个角色是一位讽刺的巴勒斯坦考古学家，他指出，据任何人所知，自圣经时代以来，他的祖先就一直生活在同一片橄榄树林里。）但是，从政治角度来说，那又怎样呢？在我看来，占有是法律的十分之九。
在那段时期的某个时候，中东和欧洲犹太人出现了分歧，欧洲分支开始积极劝说皈依者。
在罗马帝国的鼎盛时期，尽管其中大部分是皈依者，但帝国人口中约有 10% 是犹太人。一些可萨人也在这一时期被合并。
“这解释了为什么这么多欧洲和叙利亚犹太人有蓝眼睛和金发，”奥斯特说。它还解释了该团队的另一项发现——与欧洲犹太人基因关系最密切的人群是意大利人。
这些数据还显示了研究人员所说的中世纪犹太人口的“瓶颈”。阿兹蒙说，由于疾病、偏见、反犹太法令和十字军东征，欧洲犹太人的人口在那段时期减少到了 50,000 以下。
然而，随后限制的放松导致了所谓的“人口奇迹”，犹太人口的增长速度是其他欧洲人的两倍，到 5 世纪达到了 19 万以上。
欧洲的犹太人口增长如此之快，以至于近代早期的许多犹太人不得不沿着经济阶梯向下移动，从事更糟糕的工作。对贫穷的不断抱怨，比如说， 屋顶上的小提琴手，部分灵感来自于角色们知道他们的祖先并不那么贫穷——今天的犹太人很大程度上已经丧失了这种意识。
It also explains another of the team's findings — that the population most closely related genetically to European Jews are Italians.
Well, I feel vindicated. I remember Fred getting a bit testy some time back when I wrote here that I have sometimes conflated Jews and Italians.
the population most closely related genetically to European Jews are Italians
This probably has more to do with Italians having Middle Eastern ancestry than with Jews having European ancestry.
"It would be interesting to know what percentage of today's self-identified Jews have fewer than four self-identified Jewish grandparents"
I'd be surprised if there were very many at all. It seems like it would take a Jewish ancestry of like 1/8th or less for a modern young American Jew not to identify as Jewish. Being half Jewish isn't even a thing anymore for Americans, it seems. And especially never mind maternal lineage and all that.
Under the 'Law of Return' I qualify for Israeli citizenship, but I don't consider myself to be Jewish — any more than do a hundred thousand or so Russians who were allowed into Israel in the eighties and nineties because they have Jews in the family tree.
Odd that the US — a secular democracy — considers a racist theocracy its best friend.
Interesting article but what's new about it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Ashkenazi population expanded from 50k in the 16th century and so therefore would be highly interrelated.
If there was substantial admixture it would have been during the medieval and ancient period.
I mean the genetic tests are interesting but the fact is that the Palestinians are the "indigenous" people of the region.
The Jews are like the Gypsies; a migrant people who have dispersed, retained their core population characteristics, albeit with some admixture.
I think the Jews are a perfect blend of East & West (or Orient & Eastern Europe) and the Khazar contribution is there in the Levy priesthood (50% of which has a "slavic" marker).
At any rate genetic tests, more often than not corroborate the reality on the ground.
The Iranians are a Middle Eastern people, with a significant trace of Iranic genes, all the populations of the Muslim world are fully differentiated and unique (retain their pre-Islamic heritage) but are also significantly inter-related.
We are both indigenous but the Bedouin genes have scatted far and wide throughout the Muslim world.
"I'd be surprised if there were very many at all. It seems like it would take a Jewish ancestry of like 1/8th or less for a modern young American Jew not to identify as Jewish. Being half Jewish isn't even a thing anymore for Americans, it seems. And especially never mind maternal lineage and all that."
In Russia and the Russian diaspora is full of half and quarter Jews who consider themselves "nationality" Jewish.
I think that's right because of a mix of persecution, ability and history (also the world is obsessed by them) Jewish ancestry figures more prominently than any other.
So in a way outmarriage is a win-win it diversifies the "inbred" Ashkenazi gene pool, without seriously threatening it (the Orthodox are more than compensating, but at the same time strengthens the cosmopolitaness of the Jewish race.
This probably has more to do with Italians having Middle Eastern ancestry than with Jews having European ancestry.
That's unlikely. Jews have Southern European ancestry because lots of people converted to Judaism in ancient Roman times. Interestingly, this study indicates that Ashkenazi Jews have very little Germanic or Slavic ancestry, even though many of them have blue eyes and fair hair.
Syrian Jews are blonde?
As I recall, the late journalist Luigi Barzini, in his bestselling 1964 book 意大利人, found certain characteristics (cultural ones: he wasn't writing a scientific survey) shared by Italians and Jews.
First, and most obviously, intense family pride. Italy in the 1860s and 1870s became a "proposition nation", but the average Italian remained far more loyal to his extended family than to anything as abstract as a country.
Second, business acumen, tempered with a certain fatalism. You see this still, with the situation where (a) even the dumbest Italian lavatory-cleaner realizes that Berlusconi is a conniving propagandistic sex-crazed dirtball, (b) nobody is actually capable (or even all that desirous) of getting rid of him on that account, although legal proceedings against him have been rumbling on for years.
Perhaps less convincingly, Barzini also likened Italians to Chinese, not only in the fatalism and business acumen departments but in the extreme reluctance to do anything in public without making a dreadful noise.
"At the height of the Roman Empire, about 10% of the empire's population was Jewish"
这是真的？
Also, in "Before the Dawn" I believe it is mentioned that European jews are generally matrilineal European and patrilinealy Hebrew. Anybody know anything about this?
I can never understand how a group of people so appreciative of and welcoming to modern science abide by the maternal lineage belief.
Yeah, I agree with Average Joe, that the genetic kinship between Jews and Italians is probably related to the high percentage of Turkish/Arab genes in Italian populations. Dont forget that the Ottomans and Arabs controlled Sicily and large portions of Italy during the Middle ages. Quentin Tarantino describes what they did in "True Romance".
At the height of the Roman Empire, 10% of the population was Jewish? What? How come I have never read about this before? Could somebody provide some historical evidence here? The Romans left a heck of a lot of written material – I have read some of it but don't recall any Tacitus or whoever writing about such an enormous population. Could some kind reader provide some info?
“生活在地球两侧的欧洲血统的犹太人彼此之间的关系比与同胞的关系更密切。”
与异教徒不同。 如果一个来自欧洲的外邦人搬到日本，他会神奇地变得更像日本人，而不是像其他欧洲人。
This probably has more to do with Italians having Middle Eastern ancestry than with Jews having European ancestry.
罗马帝国的种族混合
坦尼·弗兰克（Tenney Frank）
American Historical Review (July 1916, vol. 21, no. 4: 689–708)
toqonline.com
…By combining epigraphical and literary references, a fairly full history of the noble families can be procured, and this reveals a startling inability of such families to perpetuate themselves. We know, for instance, in Caesar's day of forty-five patricians, only one of whom is represented by posterity when Hadrian came to power. The Aemilii, Fabii, Claudii, Manlii, Valerii, and all the rest, with the exception of the Cornelii, have disappeared. Augustus and Claudius raised twenty-five families to the patriciate, and all but six of them disappear before Nerva's reign. Of the families of nearly four hundred senators recorded in 65 A.D. under Nero, all trace of a half is lost by Nerva's day, a generation later. And the records are so full that these statistics may be assumed to represent with a fair degree of accuracy the disappearance of the male stock of the families in question. Of course members of the aristocracy were the chief sufferers from the tyranny of the century, but this havoc was not all wrought by delatores and assassins. The voluntary choice of childlessness accounts largely for the unparalleled condition. This is as far as the records help upon this problem, which, despite the silence, is probably the most important phase of the whole question of the change of race. Be the causes what they may, the rapid decrease of the old aristocracy and the native stock was clearly concomitant with a twofold increase from below: by a more normal birth-rate of the poor, and the constant manumission of slaves.
This Orientalizing of Rome's populace has a more important bearing than is usually accorded it upon the larger question of why the spirit and acts of imperial Rome are totally different from those of the republic, if indeed racial characteristics are not wholly a myth. There is today a healthy activity in the study of the economic factors – unscientific finance, fiscal agriculture, inadequate support of industry and commerce, etc. – that contributed to Rome's decline. But what lay behind and constantly reacted upon all such causes of Rome's disintegration was, after all, to a considerable extent, the fact that the people who built Rome had given way to a different race. The lack of energy and enterprise, the failure of foresight and commonsense, the weakening of moral and political stamina, all were concomitant with the gradual diminution of the stock which, during the earlier days, had displayed these qualities…
按生育率列出的国家和地区清单
en.wikipedia.org
Italy, UN estimate, 2000-2005: 1.29
Italy, UN estimate, 2005-2010: 1.38
Italy, CIA estimate, 2000: 1.18
Italy, CIA estimate, 2009: 1.31
That slight uptick you see in the [otherwise extinction-level] Italian fertility rates is almost certainly due to a new class of "Orientals" who are moving in and establishing a beachhead for themselves [in this case, for something they call 伊斯兰堡].
What is really fascinating is that the Jewish population was able to succeed in two ways at the same time. First of all they increased their population by 100 fold (from 50 thousand to 5 million) Second of all, they grew the average IQ of the population.
It is pretty well accepted here on the HBD blog-o-sphere that the success of the ashkenazi in growing their population's IQ comes from the community's decision to make the high prestige, highly compensated positions open to those young Jewish men with the highest IQ, not just the ones who were born to successful fathers.
Let me lay out the following hypothesis. In a Jewish village, the teachers were all on the look out for brilliant young men born in to a poor family. The Chief rabbi was interested in taking a few very poor but brilliant young men in to study the talmud, and if a young man proved to be extraordinary, he would be given an honored position in the village, a fertile young wife, and the means to have ten children.
By no means was the Ashkenazi village going to make this young man "rich" but it would provide for him to have ten children.
Meanwhile, in the Catholic town next door, a young Catholic man born with super high IQ had fewer options. There was no infrastructure in place to find him and give him intellectual opportunities. He might spend his life working in a low paid position and if he had kids, he might not make enough money to insure that they survived to adulthood. Or perhaps he would join the priesthood and have no children.
If we here in the HBD blog-o-sphere wanted to create, from scratch, a society focused on elevating the average IQ of each generation, so that 500 years from now our society would be able to out think its competitors, I dare say that the society we create would bear much more similarity to the ashkenazi society than to the Catholic society
Well, that's it. The LA Times has officially gone over to the Nazis.
At the height of the Roman Empire, about 10% of the empire's population was Jewish, although the bulk of them were converts. Some Khazars were also incorporated during this period.
"That explains why so many European and Syrian Jews have blue eyes and blond hair," Ostrer says.
That's interesting. So Jews got their blue eyes and light-colored hair in Roman times instead of in the Middle Ages? I had always assumed that it came from interbreeding with Germans and Swedes in the Middle Ages.
This means that Ashkenazi Jewish genetic distinctiveness must have developed post-diaspora…modern American Jews are more a subpopulation of ancient Romans than a relative of modern-day Palestinians…
Afterward, however, an easing of restrictions led to what is known as the "demographic miracle," in which the Jewish population rose twice as fast as that of other Europeans, reaching more than 5 million by the 19th century.
The Jewish population in Europe grew so much that a lot of Jews in early modern times had to move down the economic ladder into lousier jobs. The constant kvetching about being poor in, say, Fiddler on the Roof, is inspired in part by the characters' knowledge that their ancestors hadn't been as poor — an awareness largely lost on today's Jews.
再次， Google search refuses to link directly* to your piece on Olof Aschberg, the Jewish banker in Sweden who laundered the Bolshevik's stolen loot and thereby financed their victory over the White Russians in the Civil War of 1917-1921.
iSteve readers might also be interesting in perusing Gareth Jones's diary entry for his interview with Soviet Foreign Minister Maxim Litvinov, about the Holodomor.
"Maxim Litvinov" was the nom-de-guerre of one "Meir Wallach-Finkelstein", a son born to a a wealthy Jewish banking family in Bialystock.
*Someone at Google is intentionally removing that piece from the Google search engine's URL data store. My experience has been that if Komment Kontrol approves a post like this for publication, then the search results will briefly become correct, until that person [or persons] at Google notices it, and once again removes the URL from the data store [which maybe ought to tell us something about the internals of Google's implementation of the page rank algorithm, although I'm not sure what].
This is particularly egregious since Google owns "Blogger/Blogspot" – i.e. they are intentionally censoring their own intellectual property.
I don't think the Khazar conversion should be discounted. It makes a great deal of sense.
To one of the anonynmices,
Sicily was controlled by Arabs, but the Ottoman Turks never controlled Sicily or any part of the Italian peninsula.
Unfortunately we have to deal with people on this site who get their history from Quentin Tarantino.
"It could well be that, on average, today's Arab-speaking Palestinians are more closely related to the Jewish inhabitants of Palestine in, say, 1 AD than are the current Jewish inhabitants of Israel."
I doubt that. There may be more genetic diversity among the Palestinians. I doubt they would even agree to participate in this sort of genetic study, but consider the effect that pervasive black slavery and manumission have had in Arab communities. The darker Palestinians probably have some African ancestry (as seems to be the case among Iraqis and is obviously the case in Saudi Arabia, which still has slaves). The more European-looking Palestinians may have some Crusader ancestry.
If the Palestinians were true to their name, they would be of European ancestry as the Phoenicians were. But considering that Palestinians didn't start calling themselves that until 50 years ago or so, they are probably descended mainly from transient Arab tribes, with some African and European ancestry tossed in.
"Well, I feel vindicated. I remember Fred getting a bit testy some time back when I wrote here that I have sometimes conflated Jews and Italians."
I don't recall that, but there are obvious overlaps in appearances between some Jews and Italians.
"interesting in perusing" = "interested in perusing"
I assume that Harvard will be updating its quota rules to break out Jewish from white any day now. If you did that, I wonder if there would be any underrepresented groups that are not counted as such today?
“在罗马帝国的鼎盛时期，10%的人口是犹太人？什么？我以前怎么从来没有读过这个？有人可以在这里提供一些历史证据吗？”
这是一个非常受欢迎的人物。 Google 和 Google 图书上的《罗马帝国犹太人口》应该可以帮助您入门。
罗马帝国晚期犹太人口的下降可能是由于基督教的兴起，有些人将其概括为“外邦人的犹太教”。事实证明，减去割礼的一神论更受欢迎，基督教神学为非希伯来人提供了更明确的角色。
Jews (and Christians) forbade infanticide while it was extensively practiced by the Greco-Roman pagan population. In addition, Christians would rescue exposed infants. The monotheists thus easily won the population competition.
"I assume that Harvard will be updating its quota rules to break out Jewish from white any day now. "
They already do to a large extent. Why do you think they have "geographic diversity" rules which limit the number of admitees from the suburbs of New York?
弗雷德：
I don't recall that, but there are obvious overlaps in appearances between some Jews and Italians.
Oh, it was probably at least three years ago. I was just admitting my provincialism (something like: "them thar New Yorkers all look the same to me"), and you quite adamantly drew some distinctions.
I made a mental note of it, and vowed that if I were to visit New Jersey or thereabouts I would be careful to pay attention to these distinctions.
Jews have Southern European ancestry because lots of people converted to Judaism in ancient Roman times
Could you please list some sources to back up this statement?
an idea that has recently been used in an attempt to discredit the idea that Jews belong in Israel because it is their historic homeland.
It's really strange how a significant portion of WNs and ethnopatriots fall in line with this. I don't get it. If Israel goes down the tubes, there goes our biggest excuse for European ethnostates. All that work for nothing. As it stands now, we get to make some pretty good rhetorical jujitsu takedowns over this, and rightly so; what are Euros, second class humans?
I guess the problem is nuance; most people like to be 'fur or agin' something, keeps things simple. WNs know they can't be fur Israel, so they's agin it.
Well, I feel vindicated. I remember Fred getting a bit testy some time back when I wrote here that I have sometimes conflated Jews and Italians.
Absolutely; Italians are the only group I regularly have difficulty distinguishing from Jews.
Steve Johnson said
I assume that Harvard will be updating its quota rules to break out Jewish from white any day now. If you did that, I wonder if there would be any underrepresented groups that are not counted as such today?
________
Steve, it is pretty well known that Harvard has policies that show preference for a gentile from the red states vs a jew from the blue states
This is pretty openly talked about at Harvard and other ivies as "seeking geographical diversity"
If a white from say Idaho or Montana has the same IQ and same test scores as a jewish person from the New York suburbs, the white person is much more likely to get in.
No serious observer of the ivy admission process has ever disputed this as far as I know
Putting that aside, why do you, as a white survivalist want your people to go to the ivies? The ivies teach young men and women to hate the white surivalist movement. So why deliver your best and brightest to be indoctrinated – why not put them to some other use?
Just askin
"Unlike gentiles. If a gentile from Europe moves to Japan, he magically becomes more genetically like the Japanese than like other Europeans."
Half Sigma, uber-rational except when it comes to topics relating to Jews.
"Oh, it was probably at least three years ago. I was just admitting my provincialism (something like: "them thar New Yorkers all look the same to me"), and you quite adamantly drew some distinctions.
I made a mental note of it, and vowed that if I were to visit New Jersey or thereabouts I would be careful to pay attention to these distinctions."
Well, there are overlaps and there are differences. To break it down specifically for you, most Italian-Americans in the New York area are of Southern Italian extraction — dark hair, dark eyes, dark complexion. Some Jews in the area have a similar phenotype. E.g., the actor 斯科特·科恩, who has played Italians and Jews. But there are also plenty of Jews in this area who have fair skin and light-colored hair, both of which are uncommon among Southern Italians.
(I can't remember if I posted part of this already so I'll post the whole thing)
与异教徒不同。 如果一个来自欧洲的外邦人搬到日本，他会神奇地变得更像日本人，而不是像其他欧洲人。
Well, if we were talking about yesterday's crop of migrants (and not their great-great-etc-grandkids), your point would be pointier.
Plunk down a few Europeans (what you call "gentiles from Europe") in Tokyo and they'll look like Ainu in three generations.
What is really fascinating is that the Jewish population was able to succeed in two ways at the same time. First of all they increased their population by 100 fold (from 50 thousand to 5 million) Second of all, they grew the average IQ of the population.
The thing to remember here is that Jews represent a selected population. Not smart and ethnocentric enough to keep up? Apostasy awaits.
I dare say that the society we create would bear much more similarity to the ashkenazi society than to the Catholic society
Which of course manages to piss 每个人 off; on one hand you're an anti-Semite, and on the other you're trying to "be like Jews." *叹*
Unfortunately we have to deal with people on this site who get their history from Quentin Tarantino.
And unfortunately Tarantino worships blacks. I think his entire concept of masculinity is tied up with blackness, having been raised by a black man, or somesuch. So, he takes many shots at white men and elevates blacks over them in his work.
the Palestinians are the "indigenous" people of the region
Indigenous is a slippery concept, because population movements never really stop, even if cluster like structure remains. Like Steve says, possession is nine tenths of the law (which you must shut the gate before the horse has bolted… in).
Hmmm… Christianity is really more Middle-Platonism and the popular bits of Late Antique Paganism with some Jewish theological bits glued on at weird angles to give it an authentic religious tradition feel (than "Judaism for Gentiles"). There's very little Jewish about it. Not that any other religion is actually more authentic when you get down to brass tacks. Of course, there's very little of the pre-Rabbinical Judaism left in Judaism (they're literate, they expect everyone to be interested in some form of intellectual matters, even if they're only faux intellectual movements, they supposedly don't defer to priests just because they're priests), so Judaism (as we think of it now) really isn't much older than Christianity.
(Western Philosophy has always been a much better *合身* with Christianity for this reason. You have to throw the whole edifice o Judaism somewhat more to one side to proceed with any serious philosophy in the Western manner).
Btw, light complexions amongst Ashekenazi Jews, to the extent that they are present, are probably the result of selection. Jews in a Middle European environment and the Europeans they were around would probably find those Jews with lighter complexions more attractive and trustworthy. Thus selection.
Also, regarding Ashkenazi communities being more willing to donate large fractions of their income to the reproduction of the intelligent, I'm highly skeptical. I think the hypothesis that IQ was more useful within their trader niche is more likely.
>Steve, it is pretty well known that Harvard has policies that show preference for a gentile from the red states vs a jew from the blue states
This is pretty openly talked about at Harvard and other ivies as "seeking geographical diversity"<
You seek what you don't have.
>why do you, as a white survivalist want your people to go to the ivies? The ivies teach young men and women to hate the white surivalist movement. So why deliver your best and brightest to be indoctrinated – why not put them to some other use?<
Excellent question. It has to do with white gentile status-jockeying. Irish hates Scot hates Swede hates German hates Italian – but WASPs created Harvard to mop the floor with 'em all. This should be put well behind us whites. Harvard is lost, and so should be the inter-ethnic white competitions.
I think the scene some have talked about in True Romance is the one where Dennis Hopper (sorry, can't remember the character's name) is trying to provoke Christopher Walken into killing him.
He never mentions anything about the Ottoman Empire.
Here's the scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA
Re: "possession is 9/10ths of the law"
That's an easy out. So if I broke into your house and took your TV, I assume you'd shrug and let me keep it.
Easier to say when it's someone else's TV.
"That's an easy out. So if I broke into your house and took your TV, I assume you'd shrug and let me keep it.
Easier to say when it's someone else's TV."
Well said. Now sign over the deed to your house to me. It's the least you can do after taking my country.
匿名说...
"Steve, it is pretty well known that Harvard has policies that show preference for a gentile from the red states vs a jew from the blue states"
How big are these preferences versus those for affirmative action? Tiny. Let's look at the numbers for undergraduates.
Caucasian or white students = 61 to 62 percent of undergraduate students
Non-white or students of color = 38 percent of undergraduate students
（从 http://athome.harvard.edu/programs/light/light7/light7.html)
Ok, so 62% of the undergrads are white (including Jews). What percentage of the total class is Jewish? 33 (cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews). 53% of whites at Harvard are Jewish (assuming that the numbers of Jewish people who identify as both Jewish and a non-white race are negligible). By cutting the number of slots for whites (through affirmative action) and by having Jewish people counted in those slots, the result is basically to severely limit the slots available to white non-Jewish people.
"This is pretty openly talked about at Harvard and other ivies as "seeking geographical diversity""
Looks like they do a great job. They limit the slots for whites to 60% of the entering class then give more than half of those spots to people who are genetically distinct from the rest of whites. Sort of seems strange from the "diversity" perspective. Like you might want to have separate quotas for separate genetic groups if the whole "diversity" thing isn't just a smoke screen for who / whom.
"Putting that aside, why do you, as a white survivalist want your people to go to the ivies? The ivies teach young men and women to hate the white surivalist movement. So why deliver your best and brightest to be indoctrinated – why not put them to some other use?"
Hmm, maybe because whoever goes to Harvard controls the country? Most of what's wrong with our country is because of the structure of government (see the writings of Mencius Moldbug for a great description of this) and the damage that it does to everything it touches (most especially by propagating lies) but the ethnic makeup of the people who run this horrifying machine still matters. It might be possible that the highest SAT scoring ethnic group might not be the one best suited to ruling. It is probably possible to have a progressive state that isn't quite as bad as the one we have now.
Probably having an elite group that was (1) sufficiently competent (enough said), (2a) related to the people they are ruling (so they don't simply enrich themselves at the expense of non-kin) or (2b) not hugely ethnocentric (same reason), and (3) likely to be related to non-elites (so rules don't end up massively tilted to the elite) would be preferable to the current situation.
"And unfortunately Tarantino worships blacks. I think his entire concept of masculinity is tied up with blackness, having been raised by a black man, or somesuch…"
Well Svigor, that would mean that he has an excuse for "worshiping" blacks. Considering hour, upon hour, upon hour upon hour that you spend pontificating on us; what's yours?
Dienekes discusses this study at his blog. He agrees Jews have Italian-Balkan-Anatolian ancestry, and disagrees that they have Khazar ancestry.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/06/two-major-groups-of-living-jews-atzmon.html
"By cutting the number of slots for whites (through affirmative action) and by having Jewish people counted in those slots, the result is basically to severely limit the slots available to white non-Jewish people."
It seems to me that to reach this conclusion, you need to ask what percentage of Harvard students would be Jewish without affirmative action or "geographic diversity"
It's difficult to say, since it's not just a matter of competing IQ distributions. There's also the fact that Jews tend to put a lot of value on attending elite colleges. Further, one might ask what percentage of the American Jewish population lives within a day's drive of Cambridge, Mass? Probably it's far higher than the percentage for Gentile Whites.
To distill down the other findings, basically the authors found that Jews comprise a loose genetic cluster, with Ashkenazim falling as something of an outlier of the group. The authors suggest that this is due to a high rate of admixture among Ashkenazim with their non-Jewish European neighbors, reaching a rate of 30-60%, as well as a dramatic bottleneck effect. On the other hand, the loose clustering suggests a shared ancestry reaching back to an ancient Israelite past.
Interestingly, the study found close genetic ties between Ashkenazim and Northern Italians, French and Sardinians (as well as Syrian Jews). The authors suggest the genetic affinity "favors the idea of non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestry in the formation of the European/Syrian Jewish groups." The authors suggest that the core Ashkenazim population was formed from a mixture of Jews who migrated or were expelled from Israel, with those who converted during either Hellenic-Hasmonean or Greco-Roman times.
Ellen Coffman
WASPs created Harvard to mop the floor with 'em all
Not in any modern sense of the phrase "mopping the floor".
Harvard was created to provide a classical education to young Puritan men so that they could read the Bible [particularly the New Testament] in the original Greek.
Of course, the reason for doing this was so that they wouldn't have to rely on the Latin translations as rendered by the Papists [they didn't trust the Papists to provide an accurate translation, and suspected the Papists of offering up deliberate mis-translations], so maybe you could try to argue that they were mopping the floor with Italians and Frenchmen and Spaniards and Hapsburgian Austrians.
Seems to me that it's a losing battle to get more people like you/me/us/whoever into Harvard. A better solution to the "Harvard runs the country" problem is for the rest of us to mock and ridicule Harvard and Yale every chance we get. Discredit the bastards.
Hey, it's a cheap hobby, and opportunities to pursue it come along nearly every day.
半西格玛说……
“生活在地球两侧的欧洲血统的犹太人彼此之间的关系比与同胞的关系更密切。”
与异教徒不同。 如果一个来自欧洲的外邦人搬到日本，他会神奇地变得更像日本人，而不是像其他欧洲人。
Dear Half Sigma.
Not unlike gentiles.
Just the opposite, like gentiles. And that is why Jews in Poland, Germany and US are separate race.
Just because the Jews live in these countries does not mean they magically become more genetically like the Europeans.
The Jews were and are Middle Easterners.
You have just confirmed this in your post 🙂
It could well be that, on average, today's Arab-speaking Palestinians are more closely related to the Jewish inhabitants of Palestine in, say, 1 AD than are the current Jewish inhabitants of Israel.
Interesting…can you expound upon this?
Palestinians are largely descended from the ancient Hebrews as are Jews. Both groups have other sources of ancestry.
Lighter skinned Ashkenazi Jews look like people in the Caucuses, not Northern Europeans. Look up pictures of Chechens and Armenians on the internet and compare them to the whiter looking Jews. You'll see the same facial features.
A lot of Syrian Arabs are about as European looking as the average Jew. There are a fair number of people in Northern Iraq, both Arabs and Kurds who are more or less white looking.
Phoneticians were not of European ancestry. They were Near Eastern Semites, like the Hebrews.
The data also show what the researchers call a "bottleneck" in the Jewish population during the Middle Ages. The population of European Jews shrunk below 50,000 during that period because of disease, prejudice, anti-Semitic edicts and the Crusades, Atzmon said.
This would be extremely important if true, and the most likely source for the Ashkenazi IQ advantage. (I'd guess those 50,000 non-converts were the most intellectually attached to Judaism, hence most bookish, and perhaps had other sorts of advantages). But it seems almost impossible. How do you get from less than 50,000 Jews in, say, AD 1200 to 5 million in AD 1850? That's a hundred fold increase in 20-25 generations, everyone averages 5 surviving and reproducing kids each generation? Seems impossible.
MQ：
20,000-30,000 Puritans in 1630-1640 formed the group from which most of New England's population in 1800 was descended, I believe. So it can be done.
But in Malthusian Europe? In terms of pure population size, England only went from around a shade under 3 million to 21 million from 1200-1850 (according to google), which is only a seven fold increase. Bear in mind that this is a group which, unlike the pre-Twen Cen Jews, probably did go through a demographic transformation to reduce its fertility. beginning at least in the 18th century though (this is a remarked upon historical phenomenon which AFAIK was not mirrored in the Jewish community).
This isn't the full story though since the population of England at that time would (c.f. Gregory Clarke) only be the descendants of a small minority of the English (and British) population of the Middle Ages.
But it's still hard to understand a 100 fold increase, in the Malthusian world of Europe, assuming that these the descendents of the Jews did not cause negative or massively depressed reproduction in the gentile community through their increase.
I suspect the European Jewish population bottleneck was in the Dark Ages of, roughly, 500 to 1000, when gentiles hit their population lows as well.
Razib at GNXP Discover and Dienekes have extensively covered this journal article much more thoroughly than the LA Times article:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jewish-question/
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/06/two-major-groups-of-living-jews-atzmon.html
Anonymous responding to Half Sigma wrote: "The Jews were and are Middle Easterners.
You have just confirmed this in your post :)"
This is not consistent with the data at all if you were to read the original journal article or Razib's or Dienekes' analyses. The similarity of the Jewish populations reflects ancient common ancestry as supported by identity by descent (IBD) analysis of the genome. This is significant and ties all mainstream Jewish populations together, representing a common origin. However, there is evidence for significant Southern European introgression into the progenitors of the Ashkenazim in the clustering of Ashkenazim between Middle Eastern populations and S. European populations (look at the Fst Table which shows relatively close relationship between Ashkenazim and Northern Italians as well as the French and Sardinians). S. European populations cluster away from Middle Eastern populations and closer to other European populations, although there is some north-south and west-east European substructure.
" Barack Mugabe said…
At the height of the Roman Empire, 10% of the population was Jewish? What? How come I have never read about this before? Could somebody provide some historical evidence here? The Romans left a heck of a lot of written material – I have read some of it but don't recall any Tacitus or whoever writing about such an enormous population. Could some kind reader provide some info?"
I don't believe this claim. I don't recall Gibbon saying anything about it. Nor is this fact (factoid) mentioned in anything else I've read on ancient Rome. If true, it would be remarkable, and I don't remember anyone remarking on it.
And given that the roman state went out of its way in the first century to all but wipe out the jewish state, I find it hard to believe that the romans would then permit so many people to convert to the religion of a bunch of obstreperous troublemakers.
“史蒂夫赛勒说……
I suspect the European Jewish population bottleneck was in the Dark Ages of, roughly, 500 to 1000, when gentiles hit their population lows as well."
Only 500 – 1000, really? That sounds awfully low.