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Here’s a new Open Thread for all of you. To minimize the load, please continue to limit your Tweets or place them under a MORE tag.

— Ron Unz

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Open Thread, Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. Thanks for creating this new thread!

    • Agree: A123, Barbarossa
  2. Not another thread.
    Seriously,what is someone supposed to do with
    another thread?Have we not enough threads?
    Maybe there are too many threads…?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @goldgettin

    If someone forced you to go here, never listen to that person again.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @building7
    @goldgettin

    To keep up with ZOG tricks

  3. Why do international organizations lie about Israel?

    The latest fabrication by HRW is particularly egregious. Look at the totals and one excellent example of the distortion: (1)


     
    HRW consistently cherry-picks statistics, misrepresents data, and makes broad claims of Israeli evil based on minor incidents and minutiae.

    This example discusses charges of “playground apartheid.”

    the news story reveals key information that HRW ignores.

    The Court acknowledged the contention by the City that one could not compare older Arab neighborhoods to newer, planned neighborhoods that incorporated space for playgrounds. Indeed, it was shown that playground density in Arab neighborhoods was similar to ultra-Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, contradicting the notion of “playground apartheid” favoring Jews over Arabs.

    The municipality also demonstrated efforts to build playgrounds in these Arab neighborhoods but explained “that most of the appropriate land for such playgrounds is in private hands, and arrangements must be reached with the owners.

    Despite these explanations, the Court ordered the City to build playgrounds in these two Arab neighborhoods, evidence that the government-run courts consistently apply laws that contradict apartheid.

    Why is there no criticism of actual Apartheid policies from Abbas, leader of the Muslim Authority? He openly advocates life sentences for selling land to Jews.
    ___

    It is sad that a large number of readers here buy into SJW Pallywood propaganda. Unrealistic views only harden the sides further.

    The reason why Netanyahu is able to form a new Centrist government is his willingness to stand up against extreme and ultra left factions that support dangerous concessions. Bibi’s administration may also be able to start rolling back some Leftoid dogma in their culture war. (2)

    Netanyahu’s Likud party announced on Sunday that the agreement named Avi Maoz, the leader of the ultra-nationalist Noam party, as a deputy minister, whose portfolio includes an office bolstering Jewish identity among Israelis.

    Maoz, a Jewish fundamentalist and West Bank settler, is an outspoken opponent of LGBTQ+ rights and women serving in the military

    Many skilled positions are filled by women, so limiting ability to voluntarily join is unlikely to fly. However, steps to unwind the rainbow crazy will begin next year.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/threshold-crossed-hrw-apartheid/

    (2) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/netanyahu-strikes-israeli-coalition-deal-with-far-right-homophobic-leader

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @A123

    Israel is undeniably an apartheid state, but 'apartheid' is not automatically evil, nor is it a binary condition. There are degrees and kinds of 'apartheid.' The kind and degree practiced by Israel in the West Bank is particularly intense and vicious; that in Israel proper, far milder. With the far right now in government, it is bound to get worse.

    Replies: @A123

  4. @A123
    Why do international organizations lie about Israel?

    The latest fabrication by HRW is particularly egregious. Look at the totals and one excellent example of the distortion: (1)


    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgyY3BfdKNqgehtkbcGQXgqqIcDv5NPeC77yXWaIIMVoH1uFujqInK6zQrVDfq5_yOiovPTzTiz7eIc6s1LvJSOuU_qnwhk2lmlC7uO1cPF4WQKA7tDk-5DiHX_P26AkIBuhcnwo3nhB--QBawkj3UgQUjt0vV_tbhccwyf3-LxbjT6yuc-e1w/w640-h360/HRW-Salo-Twitter-1536x864.jpg

     
    HRW consistently cherry-picks statistics, misrepresents data, and makes broad claims of Israeli evil based on minor incidents and minutiae.

    This example discusses charges of “playground apartheid.”
    ...
    the news story reveals key information that HRW ignores.

    The Court acknowledged the contention by the City that one could not compare older Arab neighborhoods to newer, planned neighborhoods that incorporated space for playgrounds. Indeed, it was shown that playground density in Arab neighborhoods was similar to ultra-Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, contradicting the notion of “playground apartheid” favoring Jews over Arabs.

    The municipality also demonstrated efforts to build playgrounds in these Arab neighborhoods but explained “that most of the appropriate land for such playgrounds is in private hands, and arrangements must be reached with the owners.

    Despite these explanations, the Court ordered the City to build playgrounds in these two Arab neighborhoods, evidence that the government-run courts consistently apply laws that contradict apartheid.
     

    Why is there no criticism of actual Apartheid policies from Abbas, leader of the Muslim Authority? He openly advocates life sentences for selling land to Jews.
    ___

    It is sad that a large number of readers here buy into SJW Pallywood propaganda. Unrealistic views only harden the sides further.

    The reason why Netanyahu is able to form a new Centrist government is his willingness to stand up against extreme and ultra left factions that support dangerous concessions. Bibi's administration may also be able to start rolling back some Leftoid dogma in their culture war. (2)


    Netanyahu’s Likud party announced on Sunday that the agreement named Avi Maoz, the leader of the ultra-nationalist Noam party, as a deputy minister, whose portfolio includes an office bolstering Jewish identity among Israelis.
    ...
    Maoz, a Jewish fundamentalist and West Bank settler, is an outspoken opponent of LGBTQ+ rights and women serving in the military
     
    Many skilled positions are filled by women, so limiting ability to voluntarily join is unlikely to fly. However, steps to unwind the rainbow crazy will begin next year.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/threshold-crossed-hrw-apartheid/

    (2) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/netanyahu-strikes-israeli-coalition-deal-with-far-right-homophobic-leader

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Israel is undeniably an apartheid state, but ‘apartheid’ is not automatically evil, nor is it a binary condition. There are degrees and kinds of ‘apartheid.’ The kind and degree practiced by Israel in the West Bank is particularly intense and vicious; that in Israel proper, far milder. With the far right now in government, it is bound to get worse.

    • Replies: @A123
    @silviosilver

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?


    Israel is undeniably an apartheid state
     
    As a matter of objective fact. Israel is not an Apartheid state.

    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.


    degree practiced by Israel in the West Bank is particularly intense and vicious
     
    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing "discriminatory" about necessary self defensse.

    The Judea & Samaria situation is awkward, as the need is to separate citizens from non-citizens. This is conceptually similar to any other nation's border.

    Are you saying ALL national borders are inherently Apartheid?

    Was the Berlin Wall, before it fell, Apartheid?


    With the far right now in government, it is bound to get worse.
     
    Bibi's incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right. The word "far" is maliciously & incorrectly applied by SJW Pallywood and other decepticons to misrepresent Likud's past and future policies. Likud has shown itself to quite pragmatic, unlike the extremist policies pushed by Fatah and Hamas.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @silviosilver

  5. @silviosilver
    @A123

    Israel is undeniably an apartheid state, but 'apartheid' is not automatically evil, nor is it a binary condition. There are degrees and kinds of 'apartheid.' The kind and degree practiced by Israel in the West Bank is particularly intense and vicious; that in Israel proper, far milder. With the far right now in government, it is bound to get worse.

    Replies: @A123

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?

    Israel is undeniably an apartheid state

    As a matter of objective fact. Israel is not an Apartheid state.

    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.

    degree practiced by Israel in the West Bank is particularly intense and vicious

    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defensse.

    The Judea & Samaria situation is awkward, as the need is to separate citizens from non-citizens. This is conceptually similar to any other nation’s border.

    Are you saying ALL national borders are inherently Apartheid?

    Was the Berlin Wall, before it fell, Apartheid?

    With the far right now in government, it is bound to get worse.

    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right. The word “far” is maliciously & incorrectly applied by SJW Pallywood and other decepticons to misrepresent Likud’s past and future policies. Likud has shown itself to quite pragmatic, unlike the extremist policies pushed by Fatah and Hamas.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @A123

    How many Jews does Abbas have authority over? How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.


    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.
     
    All of which may be consistent with apartheid, which is not any one thing, but a spectrum of conditions.

    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.
     
    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are 'far right' by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.
     
    So is unprovoked violence by Jews. Considering that Jews hold all the power, it is rather ugly too (in addition to intense and vicious).

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defensse.
     
    I agree, there isn't much option. That is why apartheid is not automatically evil. South Africans, for instance, were quite right to practice it. The Israeli far right sometimes goes overboard with it, because their ideal (unlike South Africa's) is to eventually rid themselves of the Palestinians altogether. Apartheid for them is simply a preparatory stage rather than an end in itself.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

  6. @goldgettin
    Not another thread.
    Seriously,what is someone supposed to do with
    another thread?Have we not enough threads?
    Maybe there are too many threads...?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @building7

    If someone forced you to go here, never listen to that person again.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Did you watch Huberman and Fridman from a couple days ago?

    There were two valuable slips that I heard in a large stew of garbage.

    1. There are American combat troops on the ground right now in Ukraine.

    2. Huberman will "never reveal my preferences for pandemic related things for hopefully obvious reasons";

    (the only conceivable obvious reason to me is that he is mealy mouthed two faced wishy washy suck ass (for professional reasons)).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LondonBob

  7. @AnonfromTN
    @goldgettin

    If someone forced you to go here, never listen to that person again.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Did you watch Huberman and Fridman from a couple days ago?

    There were two valuable slips that I heard in a large stew of garbage.

    1. There are American combat troops on the ground right now in Ukraine.

    2. Huberman will “never reveal my preferences for pandemic related things for hopefully obvious reasons”;

    (the only conceivable obvious reason to me is that he is mealy mouthed two faced wishy washy suck ass (for professional reasons)).

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I don’t watch TV, but I am not surprised by either of these slips. Public admission might be new, but what was admitted is not.

    , @LondonBob
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Scott Ritter was talking on Judge Napolitano's show about the radio traffic from the 'Ukrainian' side is almost all Polish, English etc.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  8. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Did you watch Huberman and Fridman from a couple days ago?

    There were two valuable slips that I heard in a large stew of garbage.

    1. There are American combat troops on the ground right now in Ukraine.

    2. Huberman will "never reveal my preferences for pandemic related things for hopefully obvious reasons";

    (the only conceivable obvious reason to me is that he is mealy mouthed two faced wishy washy suck ass (for professional reasons)).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LondonBob

    I don’t watch TV, but I am not surprised by either of these slips. Public admission might be new, but what was admitted is not.

  9. Sher Singh says:

    It is a question of cultural identity as much as a question of religion. Even when they secularize, they retain considerable anti-western/anti-white hostility. (The Moroccan rioters recently in the news were probably not religious fanatics.) How much is “considerable”? I don’t know. Less than what the far right claims, but more than the rosy outlook of secularization theorists like yourself.

    Exactly. In a History of Secularism Graeme Smith says 19th C religiosity is an exception.
    Normally, 10% hardcore lead & rest follow for identity – just like politics.

    Countries Westernize for trade/tech – that incentive is upturned in migrants.
    The more parochialism & hostility – the more valuable as Foederati.

    “Assimilation is a racist burden on already beleaguered poor POC”

    A lot of these convos aren’t even ideological debates.
    It’s merely people well versed in the Western culture vs immigrant compradors.

    No American thinks it’s racist to avoid the black neighbourhood,
    The European converso goes there & gets his teeth knocked out.

    Thread:

    [MORE]

    A lot of American conservatism isn’t principled opposition either.
    Just small town rubes getting caught with the times.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    No American thinks it’s racist to avoid the black neighbourhood,
     
    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it's racist to avoid "vibrant" neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.


    A lot of American conservatism isn’t principled opposition either
     
    I'd agree with that. A small minority of either conservatives or liberals are actually principled. The majority just go where the dominant narrative lies. As the younger generation ages in, it will be an unmitigated disaster for conservatism since the majority are at least passively complicit with
    Woke society. The Right is dominated by older cohorts because they are holding on to the past dominant narrative. I fully expect myself and my children to be living in a wholly ideologically hostile general society (not that we aren't there already) for the foreseen future.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Emil Nikola Richard

  10. @A123
    @silviosilver

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?


    Israel is undeniably an apartheid state
     
    As a matter of objective fact. Israel is not an Apartheid state.

    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.


    degree practiced by Israel in the West Bank is particularly intense and vicious
     
    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing "discriminatory" about necessary self defensse.

    The Judea & Samaria situation is awkward, as the need is to separate citizens from non-citizens. This is conceptually similar to any other nation's border.

    Are you saying ALL national borders are inherently Apartheid?

    Was the Berlin Wall, before it fell, Apartheid?


    With the far right now in government, it is bound to get worse.
     
    Bibi's incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right. The word "far" is maliciously & incorrectly applied by SJW Pallywood and other decepticons to misrepresent Likud's past and future policies. Likud has shown itself to quite pragmatic, unlike the extremist policies pushed by Fatah and Hamas.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @silviosilver

    How many Jews does Abbas have authority over? How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.

    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.

    All of which may be consistent with apartheid, which is not any one thing, but a spectrum of conditions.

    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.

    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are ‘far right’ by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.

    So is unprovoked violence by Jews. Considering that Jews hold all the power, it is rather ugly too (in addition to intense and vicious).

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defensse.

    I agree, there isn’t much option. That is why apartheid is not automatically evil. South Africans, for instance, were quite right to practice it. The Israeli far right sometimes goes overboard with it, because their ideal (unlike South Africa’s) is to eventually rid themselves of the Palestinians altogether. Apartheid for them is simply a preparatory stage rather than an end in itself.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @silviosilver

    How many Arab lives is equal to one Jewish life?

    It might be possible to put a number on this if you have access to Israel government data and documentation. Since I don't I am going to guess around 140 - 1.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    , @A123
    @silviosilver

    We notice you did not answer the question. Let me ask it again.

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?


    How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.
     
    Israeli has approximately ~1.5 MM Muslim citizens.

    Abbas, and his Apartheid Authority, has direct control over ~2.5 MM Muslims in the West Bank. Hamas has effective authority over ~2.0 MM Muslims in Gaza. Theoretically they should also fall under the Apartheid Authority. So, Abbas's reach is 4.5-5.0 MM.

    Oh indeed...



    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.
     
    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are ‘far right’ by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

     

    And, Likud is distinctly Centrist. In contemporary usage the combination of Center + Right = Center-Right. Which, I already conceded is a potentially viable descriptor despite Netanyahu's personal Centrism.


    There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defense.

     

    I agree, there isn’t much option.
     
    The religious homeland of Judea and the holy city of Jerusalem are inextricably linked to Judaism. Innocent Jewish civilians deserve the right to live without fear in their religious lands.

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.

     

    Let me return to the critical question... Again...

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?
    ___

    If you say both sides are followers of Apartheid, is not the obvious answer to complete the separation so both sides can be permanently apart?

    What is wrong with a solution that provides honorable and compensated relocation off Jewish land, with Muslims returning to their religious homeland? This seems vastly more practical than forcing the sides to associate in a way neither wants nor benefits from.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @silviosilver

  11. @silviosilver
    @A123

    How many Jews does Abbas have authority over? How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.


    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.
     
    All of which may be consistent with apartheid, which is not any one thing, but a spectrum of conditions.

    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.
     
    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are 'far right' by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.
     
    So is unprovoked violence by Jews. Considering that Jews hold all the power, it is rather ugly too (in addition to intense and vicious).

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defensse.
     
    I agree, there isn't much option. That is why apartheid is not automatically evil. South Africans, for instance, were quite right to practice it. The Israeli far right sometimes goes overboard with it, because their ideal (unlike South Africa's) is to eventually rid themselves of the Palestinians altogether. Apartheid for them is simply a preparatory stage rather than an end in itself.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    How many Arab lives is equal to one Jewish life?

    It might be possible to put a number on this if you have access to Israel government data and documentation. Since I don’t I am going to guess around 140 – 1.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    140? Would that add up to as much as a Jewish fingernail?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  12. Sher Singh says:

    https://occidentaldissent.com/2022/11/30/tablet-mag-how-the-next-civil-war-begins/

    https://occidentaldissent.com/2022/11/30/counter-currents-the-white-liberal-question/

    https://counter-currents.com/2022/11/a-nietzschean-response-to-jason-kohne/

    Liberals, despite what this author insists, are the only group of non-white nationalist white people who are open to white nationalism, because they actually embrace a racial identity. Whether it’s a negative racial identity is besides the point. White liberals identify very strongly as whites. So you can have a conversation with them about how white people should behave.

    White conservatives reject all forms of racial identity out of hand. They are absolutely and categorically anti-racialist. They identify as “Christians” or “Patriots” and other civic nationalist subcultures. The ones that *do* supposedly embrace a racial identity are quick to renege it – Like embracing Kanye and other theological flavours of anti-semitism because it’s “based”.

    Hmm.

    My own view is that we’re blaming anti-White racial politics for what is simply snobbery. These people are snobs. They don’t want to be associated with non-wealthy Whites whether they’re liberal or not. The anti-White puritanism is simply camouflage to avoid the adverse gaze of the Eye of Jewron.

  13. @silviosilver
    @A123

    How many Jews does Abbas have authority over? How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.


    Israeli has Muslim citizens who travel, own property, vote, and elect representatives to the Knesset. A few even volunteer to join the IDF.
     
    All of which may be consistent with apartheid, which is not any one thing, but a spectrum of conditions.

    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.
     
    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are 'far right' by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

    Unprovoked violence against Jews is particularly intense and vicious.
     
    So is unprovoked violence by Jews. Considering that Jews hold all the power, it is rather ugly too (in addition to intense and vicious).

    What other option is their other than tight security? And, security is by definition *not* Apartheid. There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defensse.
     
    I agree, there isn't much option. That is why apartheid is not automatically evil. South Africans, for instance, were quite right to practice it. The Israeli far right sometimes goes overboard with it, because their ideal (unlike South Africa's) is to eventually rid themselves of the Palestinians altogether. Apartheid for them is simply a preparatory stage rather than an end in itself.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    We notice you did not answer the question. Let me ask it again.

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?

    How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.

    Israeli has approximately ~1.5 MM Muslim citizens.

    Abbas, and his Apartheid Authority, has direct control over ~2.5 MM Muslims in the West Bank. Hamas has effective authority over ~2.0 MM Muslims in Gaza. Theoretically they should also fall under the Apartheid Authority. So, Abbas’s reach is 4.5-5.0 MM.

    Oh indeed…

    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.

    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are ‘far right’ by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

    And, Likud is distinctly Centrist. In contemporary usage the combination of Center + Right = Center-Right. Which, I already conceded is a potentially viable descriptor despite Netanyahu’s personal Centrism.

    There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defense.

    I agree, there isn’t much option.

    The religious homeland of Judea and the holy city of Jerusalem are inextricably linked to Judaism. Innocent Jewish civilians deserve the right to live without fear in their religious lands.

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.

    Let me return to the critical question… Again…

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?
    ___

    If you say both sides are followers of Apartheid, is not the obvious answer to complete the separation so both sides can be permanently apart?

    What is wrong with a solution that provides honorable and compensated relocation off Jewish land, with Muslims returning to their religious homeland? This seems vastly more practical than forcing the sides to associate in a way neither wants nor benefits from.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @A123


    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?
     
    We can't know the extent of Abba's supposed apartheid because there's no one under his authority he can practice it on. If some day a sizeable number of Jews came under his authority - really exercising our imaginations here - then we could provide an answer based on observable fact. For the time being, we are left discussing a hypothetical apartheid, which is to say a phantom apartheid - brought up, needless to say, solely in order to misdirect attention from the very real one practiced by Israel.

    Abbas, and his Apartheid Authority, has direct control over ~2.5 MM Muslims in the West Bank. Hamas has effective authority over ~2.0 MM Muslims in Gaza.
     
    Better known (to all but Israel-firsters) as Palestinians, as that term includes the Christians, who are also subject to Israeli apartheid.

    And, Likud is distinctly Centrist.
     
    We were discussing the fact that the far right is now part of the government.

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.
     
    It goes well beyond the minimum necessary. To return to a point you seem reluctant to concede - stupidly so, on your part, as there is no getting around it - apartheid exists in degrees and kinds. In addition to security needs, Israel practices a kind of apartheid that has nothing to do with security.

    If you say both sides are followers of Apartheid, is not the obvious answer to complete the separation so both sides can be permanently apart?
     
    There is only one side practicing it, as only one side has the power to practice it. A firmer, less arbitrary, less malicious form of apartheid, however, does indeed seem to be the best way forward. That is not up to me, however. I can only comment on what I observe, which is that Israelis seem determined to concede the Palestinians nothing, to continue reducing what little they have, and to permanently rid themselves of them when the opportunity presents itself.

    Replies: @A123

  14. @A123
    @silviosilver

    We notice you did not answer the question. Let me ask it again.

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?


    How many Palestinians does Israel have authority over? Oh.
     
    Israeli has approximately ~1.5 MM Muslim citizens.

    Abbas, and his Apartheid Authority, has direct control over ~2.5 MM Muslims in the West Bank. Hamas has effective authority over ~2.0 MM Muslims in Gaza. Theoretically they should also fall under the Apartheid Authority. So, Abbas's reach is 4.5-5.0 MM.

    Oh indeed...



    Bibi’s incoming coalition is either Centrist or Center-Right.
     
    Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are ‘far right’ by any contemporary usage of that term, and they are now part of the government.

     

    And, Likud is distinctly Centrist. In contemporary usage the combination of Center + Right = Center-Right. Which, I already conceded is a potentially viable descriptor despite Netanyahu's personal Centrism.


    There is nothing “discriminatory” about necessary self defense.

     

    I agree, there isn’t much option.
     
    The religious homeland of Judea and the holy city of Jerusalem are inextricably linked to Judaism. Innocent Jewish civilians deserve the right to live without fear in their religious lands.

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.

     

    Let me return to the critical question... Again...

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?
    ___

    If you say both sides are followers of Apartheid, is not the obvious answer to complete the separation so both sides can be permanently apart?

    What is wrong with a solution that provides honorable and compensated relocation off Jewish land, with Muslims returning to their religious homeland? This seems vastly more practical than forcing the sides to associate in a way neither wants nor benefits from.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?

    We can’t know the extent of Abba’s supposed apartheid because there’s no one under his authority he can practice it on. If some day a sizeable number of Jews came under his authority – really exercising our imaginations here – then we could provide an answer based on observable fact. For the time being, we are left discussing a hypothetical apartheid, which is to say a phantom apartheid – brought up, needless to say, solely in order to misdirect attention from the very real one practiced by Israel.

    Abbas, and his Apartheid Authority, has direct control over ~2.5 MM Muslims in the West Bank. Hamas has effective authority over ~2.0 MM Muslims in Gaza.

    Better known (to all but Israel-firsters) as Palestinians, as that term includes the Christians, who are also subject to Israeli apartheid.

    And, Likud is distinctly Centrist.

    We were discussing the fact that the far right is now part of the government.

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.

    It goes well beyond the minimum necessary. To return to a point you seem reluctant to concede – stupidly so, on your part, as there is no getting around it – apartheid exists in degrees and kinds. In addition to security needs, Israel practices a kind of apartheid that has nothing to do with security.

    If you say both sides are followers of Apartheid, is not the obvious answer to complete the separation so both sides can be permanently apart?

    There is only one side practicing it, as only one side has the power to practice it. A firmer, less arbitrary, less malicious form of apartheid, however, does indeed seem to be the best way forward. That is not up to me, however. I can only comment on what I observe, which is that Israelis seem determined to concede the Palestinians nothing, to continue reducing what little they have, and to permanently rid themselves of them when the opportunity presents itself.

    • Agree: Yahya, Not Raul
    • Replies: @A123
    @silviosilver

    You seem to be going out if your way to be very evasive.



    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?
     
    We can’t know the extent of Abba’s supposed apartheid because there’s no one under his authority he can practice it on.
     
    We can know... Abbas and his Apartheid Authority hand out life sentences for those who transgress Muslim Apartheid rules: (1)

    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has toughened the penalty for citizens selling property to Israelis.

    According to the official Palestinian Wafa news agency, Abbas on Monday imposed a sentence of hard labor for life on “anyone diverting, renting or selling land to an enemy state or one of its subjects.”

    Jordan’s penal code number 16 article 114, applicable in the Palestinian territories, previously subscribed “temporary hard labor” to perpetrators of the crime.
     

    Palestinian Christians are also abused by the Apartheid Authority: (2)

    The Palestinian Authority has been forced to call off a press conference that was supposed to take place in Ramallah later this week regarding the upcoming Christmas festivities after protests by the Bethlehem Municipality and Christian leaders.

    Several Christian residents of Bethlehem accused the PA of attempting to “hijack” their holidays and marginalize the city’s role in organizing and overseeing the celebrations. Announcements about Christmas festivities have always been made from Bethlehem, they said.

    The dispute between Bethlehem and Ramallah over Christian holidays is unprecedented.

    Several Christians took to social media to express outrage over the PA’s attempt to shift attention from Bethlehem to Ramallah ahead of Christmas.
     

    There is plenty of evidence that Abbas and his Apartheid Authority are already practicing it as enthusiastically as they can.

    Palestinians, as that term includes the Christians
     
    Do not leave out Palestinian Jews... Palestinian Druze as well. The population of Palestine is ~12.5MM with the majority being ~7.5MM Palestinian Jews.


    Likud is distinctly Centrist. In contemporary usage the combination of Center + Right = Center-Right. Which, I already conceded is a potentially viable descriptor despite Netanyahu’s personal Centrism.
     
    We were discussing the fact that the far right is now part of the government

     

    Indeed the presence of the right makes Center-Right a valid label.

    Let us apply your 'one party' naming convention to the outgoing Bennett coalition. It contained the Ra'am Party. To you, was that administration Extreme Left or Muslim Left?



    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.
     
    It goes well beyond the minimum necessary. To return to a point you seem reluctant to concede
     
    This is simply not so. Why do you uncritically accept Pallywood propaganda?

    what I observe, which is that Israelis seem determined to concede the Palestinians nothing, to continue reducing what little they have
     
    What I observe is that Palestinian Jews have offered concessions in the past. The other side has broken the deals 100% of the time. What point is there to offering concessions for nothing?

    I also observe that Muslim aggression is a direct cause of the reduction of what they have. More frequent and deadly unprovoked attacks draw more stringent minimum necessary security measures.

    Hamas, completely by itself, destroyed the fresh water aquifer under Gaza. Again, the reduction in resources is something that Islamic leadership, no one else, imposed on their own Muslims colonies.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-toughens-law-against-palestinians-selling-land-to-jews/

    (2) https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-723051

  15. Is Ron DeSwampus showing his true colors? (1)

    Candidates are personally financed by the book publication laundry system through advances, typically several million, and then again indirectly by supporting organizations through mass purchasing. It is not uncommon to find hundreds-of-thousands of books in various warehouses purchased by groups as indirect contributions to boost the candidate of their choice. The purchases determine the “best seller” rankings.

    It is unknown how much billionaire Rupert Murdoch has paid Ron DeSantis for the 2024 campaign but considering the stakes for this election cycle it’s likely in the $20 million range.

    By design, Governor Ron DeSantis will almost certainly be the last candidate to enter the 2024 race, sometime late summer. The entry will depend on their success in keeping him in the spotlight and headlines without ‘officially’ looking like they are trying to keep him in the spotlight and headlines. Fox News will play a key role in keeping DeSantis spotlighted.

    Everything is being carefully managed; however, when you know the script, and know where the tripwires are located, it’s very easy to see it playing out

    I still hope that DeSantis is simply playing these cash cows will not run. Possibly, to avoid blow back, punch the ticket on a token effort dropping out soon after Iowa and New Hampshire.

    A true RINO campaign on DeSantis part will irrevocably burn his credibility with the MAGA base. After that mistake, his political career would be over. One has to believe DeSantis is not stupid enough to opt for 100% certain failure.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/30/rupert-murdoch-pays-ron-desantis-undisclosed-sum-with-book-deal-ahead-of-2024-announcement/#more-240426

  16. People like Ngozi Fulani shouldn’t be asked where they are from, but rather where they are going.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @songbird

    Wakanda, forever.

    Replies: @songbird

  17. @silviosilver
    @A123


    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?
     
    We can't know the extent of Abba's supposed apartheid because there's no one under his authority he can practice it on. If some day a sizeable number of Jews came under his authority - really exercising our imaginations here - then we could provide an answer based on observable fact. For the time being, we are left discussing a hypothetical apartheid, which is to say a phantom apartheid - brought up, needless to say, solely in order to misdirect attention from the very real one practiced by Israel.

    Abbas, and his Apartheid Authority, has direct control over ~2.5 MM Muslims in the West Bank. Hamas has effective authority over ~2.0 MM Muslims in Gaza.
     
    Better known (to all but Israel-firsters) as Palestinians, as that term includes the Christians, who are also subject to Israeli apartheid.

    And, Likud is distinctly Centrist.
     
    We were discussing the fact that the far right is now part of the government.

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.
     
    It goes well beyond the minimum necessary. To return to a point you seem reluctant to concede - stupidly so, on your part, as there is no getting around it - apartheid exists in degrees and kinds. In addition to security needs, Israel practices a kind of apartheid that has nothing to do with security.

    If you say both sides are followers of Apartheid, is not the obvious answer to complete the separation so both sides can be permanently apart?
     
    There is only one side practicing it, as only one side has the power to practice it. A firmer, less arbitrary, less malicious form of apartheid, however, does indeed seem to be the best way forward. That is not up to me, however. I can only comment on what I observe, which is that Israelis seem determined to concede the Palestinians nothing, to continue reducing what little they have, and to permanently rid themselves of them when the opportunity presents itself.

    Replies: @A123

    You seem to be going out if your way to be very evasive.

    Do you condemn, or at least admit, that Abbas is running an Apartheid Authority in the West Bank?

    We can’t know the extent of Abba’s supposed apartheid because there’s no one under his authority he can practice it on.

    We can know… Abbas and his Apartheid Authority hand out life sentences for those who transgress Muslim Apartheid rules: (1)

    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has toughened the penalty for citizens selling property to Israelis.

    According to the official Palestinian Wafa news agency, Abbas on Monday imposed a sentence of hard labor for life on “anyone diverting, renting or selling land to an enemy state or one of its subjects.”

    Jordan’s penal code number 16 article 114, applicable in the Palestinian territories, previously subscribed “temporary hard labor” to perpetrators of the crime.

    Palestinian Christians are also abused by the Apartheid Authority: (2)

    The Palestinian Authority has been forced to call off a press conference that was supposed to take place in Ramallah later this week regarding the upcoming Christmas festivities after protests by the Bethlehem Municipality and Christian leaders.

    Several Christian residents of Bethlehem accused the PA of attempting to “hijack” their holidays and marginalize the city’s role in organizing and overseeing the celebrations. Announcements about Christmas festivities have always been made from Bethlehem, they said.

    The dispute between Bethlehem and Ramallah over Christian holidays is unprecedented.

    Several Christians took to social media to express outrage over the PA’s attempt to shift attention from Bethlehem to Ramallah ahead of Christmas.

    There is plenty of evidence that Abbas and his Apartheid Authority are already practicing it as enthusiastically as they can.

    Palestinians, as that term includes the Christians

    Do not leave out Palestinian Jews… Palestinian Druze as well. The population of Palestine is ~12.5MM with the majority being ~7.5MM Palestinian Jews.

    Likud is distinctly Centrist. In contemporary usage the combination of Center + Right = Center-Right. Which, I already conceded is a potentially viable descriptor despite Netanyahu’s personal Centrism.

    We were discussing the fact that the far right is now part of the government

    Indeed the presence of the right makes Center-Right a valid label.

    Let us apply your ‘one party’ naming convention to the outgoing Bennett coalition. It contained the Ra’am Party. To you, was that administration Extreme Left or Muslim Left?

    If there are no other options it is not a voluntary system of chosen Apartheid. It is simply the minimum necessary measures against unprovoked violence.

    It goes well beyond the minimum necessary. To return to a point you seem reluctant to concede

    This is simply not so. Why do you uncritically accept Pallywood propaganda?

    what I observe, which is that Israelis seem determined to concede the Palestinians nothing, to continue reducing what little they have

    What I observe is that Palestinian Jews have offered concessions in the past. The other side has broken the deals 100% of the time. What point is there to offering concessions for nothing?

    I also observe that Muslim aggression is a direct cause of the reduction of what they have. More frequent and deadly unprovoked attacks draw more stringent minimum necessary security measures.

    Hamas, completely by itself, destroyed the fresh water aquifer under Gaza. Again, the reduction in resources is something that Islamic leadership, no one else, imposed on their own Muslims colonies.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-toughens-law-against-palestinians-selling-land-to-jews/

    (2) https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-723051

  18. If Trump gets in, he should appoint Ye ambassador to Israel to punish Bibi for having the gall to tell him who he can and can’t meet.

    • Agree: Mikel, Not Raul
  19. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @silviosilver

    How many Arab lives is equal to one Jewish life?

    It might be possible to put a number on this if you have access to Israel government data and documentation. Since I don't I am going to guess around 140 - 1.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    140? Would that add up to as much as a Jewish fingernail?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @silviosilver

    I don't know the authentic statistics. Also I am not Jewish. : )

  20. @songbird
    People like Ngozi Fulani shouldn't be asked where they are from, but rather where they are going.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Wakanda, forever.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @silviosilver

    It is a pity they called it "vibranium" instead of "vibrantium."

    Replies: @A123

  21. @silviosilver
    @songbird

    Wakanda, forever.

    Replies: @songbird

    It is a pity they called it “vibranium” instead of “vibrantium.”

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    It is a pity they called it “vibranium” instead of “vibrantium.”
     
    Better than Avatar. That included "Unobtanium".
    ___

    Given the falling out between Ye and Trump a good posting, like Israel, is unthinkable.

    Sending Ye to Liberia, Sudan, or Afghanistan? Much more plausible.

    Accidentally cancelling Ye's passport when he is overseas so he becomes stateless? Entertaining, but sadly low probability.

    PEACE 😇
  22. @songbird
    @silviosilver

    It is a pity they called it "vibranium" instead of "vibrantium."

    Replies: @A123

    It is a pity they called it “vibranium” instead of “vibrantium.”

    Better than Avatar. That included “Unobtanium”.
    ___

    Given the falling out between Ye and Trump a good posting, like Israel, is unthinkable.

    Sending Ye to Liberia, Sudan, or Afghanistan? Much more plausible.

    Accidentally cancelling Ye’s passport when he is overseas so he becomes stateless? Entertaining, but sadly low probability.

    PEACE 😇

    • LOL: songbird
  23. @Sher Singh

    It is a question of cultural identity as much as a question of religion. Even when they secularize, they retain considerable anti-western/anti-white hostility. (The Moroccan rioters recently in the news were probably not religious fanatics.) How much is “considerable”? I don’t know. Less than what the far right claims, but more than the rosy outlook of secularization theorists like yourself.
     
    Exactly. In a History of Secularism Graeme Smith says 19th C religiosity is an exception.
    Normally, 10% hardcore lead & rest follow for identity - just like politics.

    Countries Westernize for trade/tech - that incentive is upturned in migrants.
    The more parochialism & hostility - the more valuable as Foederati.

    "Assimilation is a racist burden on already beleaguered poor POC"

    A lot of these convos aren't even ideological debates.
    It's merely people well versed in the Western culture vs immigrant compradors.

    No American thinks it's racist to avoid the black neighbourhood,
    The European converso goes there & gets his teeth knocked out.

    Thread:

    https://twitter.com/qin_duke/status/1596948057635303426

    A lot of American conservatism isn't principled opposition either.
    Just small town rubes getting caught with the times.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    No American thinks it’s racist to avoid the black neighbourhood,

    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it’s racist to avoid “vibrant” neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.

    A lot of American conservatism isn’t principled opposition either

    I’d agree with that. A small minority of either conservatives or liberals are actually principled. The majority just go where the dominant narrative lies. As the younger generation ages in, it will be an unmitigated disaster for conservatism since the majority are at least passively complicit with
    Woke society. The Right is dominated by older cohorts because they are holding on to the past dominant narrative. I fully expect myself and my children to be living in a wholly ideologically hostile general society (not that we aren’t there already) for the foreseen future.

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    For conservative I was thinking Small town Ontario & Alberta. Steadfast in the old narrative & looking to enforce it. Toronto & the Maritimes are more laid back. They see liberalism as a guideline rather than a principle.

    Things seem less polarized than 2020, but I'm also back in a mostly Panjabi area so I can't tell. I do sort of like bouncing back between the enclave and general society at times.

    xxxhttps://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/z9ddsh/trudeau_accuses_conservatives_of_being_deep_in/

    Interesting video. I don't really know I'm back to just being Panjabi. No time for Hindus and their cucked bullshit. With Hinduism, Bhuddism & Sikhi all coming from Panjab what's left to say? Bharat is great when ruled from Panjab & stretching to the Caspian. Not worth mentioning otherwise,

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/973087973266567208/1047746903485448264/IMG_5020.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787635978746986496/1047788750723350558/IMG_20221201_031811.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa


    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it’s racist to avoid “vibrant” neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.

     

    Here is the way to do this and avoid any embarrassment. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and Oprah Winfrey use this method. Any black neighborhood is perfectly safe to traverse or visit for a photo op even if you are as white as Johnny Winter or Julian Assange. The rule is: be elsewhere by 10:45 A.M. Violent reckless people are overwhelmingly late risers. You can't even get up early if you were up raising hell late last night. Sailer needs a histogram of violent crime times with domestic violence edited out. It's not a Bell curve. I'm sure there is a name for it in the Stat handbook on my shelf which I cannot be assed to look up. It picks up around noon and it rises exponentially to a max 7-9 PM and decays slow at first but later falls fast to near zero at 4:30-8:00 A.M. and stays pretty much negligible until 11:45 A.M. or so.

    White people who hang out with black people have a screw loose. Even black people who can afford it don't hang out with black people. Kanye West lives in a white neighborhood. The exceptions to this rule really stick out. See Marvin Harrison. Keeping it real is one of those fairy tales like self-made man which does happen but it's rare.

    Replies: @Beckow

  24. @silviosilver
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    140? Would that add up to as much as a Jewish fingernail?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    I don’t know the authentic statistics. Also I am not Jewish. : )

  25. Sher Singh says:
    @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    No American thinks it’s racist to avoid the black neighbourhood,
     
    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it's racist to avoid "vibrant" neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.


    A lot of American conservatism isn’t principled opposition either
     
    I'd agree with that. A small minority of either conservatives or liberals are actually principled. The majority just go where the dominant narrative lies. As the younger generation ages in, it will be an unmitigated disaster for conservatism since the majority are at least passively complicit with
    Woke society. The Right is dominated by older cohorts because they are holding on to the past dominant narrative. I fully expect myself and my children to be living in a wholly ideologically hostile general society (not that we aren't there already) for the foreseen future.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Emil Nikola Richard

    For conservative I was thinking Small town Ontario & Alberta. Steadfast in the old narrative & looking to enforce it. Toronto & the Maritimes are more laid back. They see liberalism as a guideline rather than a principle.

    Things seem less polarized than 2020, but I’m also back in a mostly Panjabi area so I can’t tell. I do sort of like bouncing back between the enclave and general society at times.

    xxxhttps://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/z9ddsh/trudeau_accuses_conservatives_of_being_deep_in/

    Interesting video. I don’t really know I’m back to just being Panjabi. No time for Hindus and their cucked bullshit. With Hinduism, Bhuddism & Sikhi all coming from Panjab what’s left to say? Bharat is great when ruled from Panjab & stretching to the Caspian. Not worth mentioning otherwise,

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Sher Singh

    It's also funny seeing all the old narratives dying.
    The Indus Valley people were mostly Irani & Mestizo in colour. The Indo Aryans just resemble modern Panjabis or Tajiks.

    Much past Delhi you got a tropical rice climate & lanky black people against the more robust Aryans, seen today as well.

    We can turn our gaze back toward Iran and Turkey now that the overly philosophical Hindus and Europeans are retreating out of the picture.

    Zar, Zan, Zameen.
    Gold, Women, Land.

    , @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    Posting a fitness video is subtly trying to say I’m the most fit
     
    That is the strange dynamic of social media culture. It's perverse for people to constantly branding themselves. It's peak capitalism at it's finest.

    I like in a rural area and it's quite red and Trumpy. I find some of that to be obnoxious in all honesty as a lot of it is powered by knee-jerk Republican programming. People are only starting to get that corporate America or the surveillance state is their enemy now that it has turned Woke/ controlled by Biden. They are the same people who enthusiastically built it brick by brick in the W. Bush years.

    However nice it is to imagine that the social accommodation that seemed plausible in the 90's is a realistic possibility, I think that it is not. Increasingly it seems like we'll be facing an inevitable choice between an authoritarian Right and a totalitarian Left (if we even have a choice), as I think the general populace is too uneducated and lazy to even make a stab at representative government of even degraded form.

    If that truly is the choice, than I would have to choose the group that might beat up gays over the group that believes in "Trans kids".

    Realistically though, I think it will ultimately be necessary to go underground a bit, and find ways to subvert the system. The Left has been very successful in their model and actual conservatives would do well to pay attention.

    A large part of that comes down to the kids. I see so many people in their 60's bitch and moan about younger people, but who raised them? They sure didn't spring ex nihilo from Saul Alinsky's head like Athena. If you don't raise kids with something compelling to believe in the void will be filled by others.

    Any conservative or dissident from the current order needs to make sure their ultimate goal is to live off one income and raise their kids themselves. Sending one's kids to public school is a losing game as the time spent in counter programming the negative values propounded all day makes it that much harder to find time to inculcate positive values.

    Out of curiousity, do the Sikhs in a place like Canada send their kids to the public school or do you have any your own institutions?

    Replies: @showmethereal

  26. Sher Singh says:
    @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    For conservative I was thinking Small town Ontario & Alberta. Steadfast in the old narrative & looking to enforce it. Toronto & the Maritimes are more laid back. They see liberalism as a guideline rather than a principle.

    Things seem less polarized than 2020, but I'm also back in a mostly Panjabi area so I can't tell. I do sort of like bouncing back between the enclave and general society at times.

    xxxhttps://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/z9ddsh/trudeau_accuses_conservatives_of_being_deep_in/

    Interesting video. I don't really know I'm back to just being Panjabi. No time for Hindus and their cucked bullshit. With Hinduism, Bhuddism & Sikhi all coming from Panjab what's left to say? Bharat is great when ruled from Panjab & stretching to the Caspian. Not worth mentioning otherwise,

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/973087973266567208/1047746903485448264/IMG_5020.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787635978746986496/1047788750723350558/IMG_20221201_031811.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    It’s also funny seeing all the old narratives dying.
    The Indus Valley people were mostly Irani & Mestizo in colour. The Indo Aryans just resemble modern Panjabis or Tajiks.

    Much past Delhi you got a tropical rice climate & lanky black people against the more robust Aryans, seen today as well.

    We can turn our gaze back toward Iran and Turkey now that the overly philosophical Hindus and Europeans are retreating out of the picture.

    Zar, Zan, Zameen.
    Gold, Women, Land.

  27. Sher Singh says:

    http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/airyanavaeja.htm

    Hapta Hindu Hindava (OP)

    Upper Indus, Gandhara, Punjab, Kashmir

    – Wide expanses
    – Violence, rage and hot weather

    Zoroastar was from the broader Uttar Kuru area too.
    Nothing left for Eastern Hindus or Western Iranics.

    They can kick rocks with all due respect.

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/guru-gobind-singh-the-glory-of-all-hindustan

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  28. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    No American thinks it’s racist to avoid the black neighbourhood,
     
    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it's racist to avoid "vibrant" neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.


    A lot of American conservatism isn’t principled opposition either
     
    I'd agree with that. A small minority of either conservatives or liberals are actually principled. The majority just go where the dominant narrative lies. As the younger generation ages in, it will be an unmitigated disaster for conservatism since the majority are at least passively complicit with
    Woke society. The Right is dominated by older cohorts because they are holding on to the past dominant narrative. I fully expect myself and my children to be living in a wholly ideologically hostile general society (not that we aren't there already) for the foreseen future.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it’s racist to avoid “vibrant” neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.

    Here is the way to do this and avoid any embarrassment. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and Oprah Winfrey use this method. Any black neighborhood is perfectly safe to traverse or visit for a photo op even if you are as white as Johnny Winter or Julian Assange. The rule is: be elsewhere by 10:45 A.M. Violent reckless people are overwhelmingly late risers. You can’t even get up early if you were up raising hell late last night. Sailer needs a histogram of violent crime times with domestic violence edited out. It’s not a Bell curve. I’m sure there is a name for it in the Stat handbook on my shelf which I cannot be assed to look up. It picks up around noon and it rises exponentially to a max 7-9 PM and decays slow at first but later falls fast to near zero at 4:30-8:00 A.M. and stays pretty much negligible until 11:45 A.M. or so.

    White people who hang out with black people have a screw loose. Even black people who can afford it don’t hang out with black people. Kanye West lives in a white neighborhood. The exceptions to this rule really stick out. See Marvin Harrison. Keeping it real is one of those fairy tales like self-made man which does happen but it’s rare.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    ...be elsewhere by 10:45 A.M. Violent reckless people are overwhelmingly late risers.
     
    It works in most situations, thugs don't wake up early and are slow to get going. But with official sponsored thuggery it is the opposite, they like early mornings then fizzle out.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  29. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa


    I suspect that this may be the difference between old-school libs and Woke libs, I get the impression from conversations that the Woke variety actually do think it’s racist to avoid “vibrant” neighborhoods, while the former are realistic in practice.

     

    Here is the way to do this and avoid any embarrassment. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and Oprah Winfrey use this method. Any black neighborhood is perfectly safe to traverse or visit for a photo op even if you are as white as Johnny Winter or Julian Assange. The rule is: be elsewhere by 10:45 A.M. Violent reckless people are overwhelmingly late risers. You can't even get up early if you were up raising hell late last night. Sailer needs a histogram of violent crime times with domestic violence edited out. It's not a Bell curve. I'm sure there is a name for it in the Stat handbook on my shelf which I cannot be assed to look up. It picks up around noon and it rises exponentially to a max 7-9 PM and decays slow at first but later falls fast to near zero at 4:30-8:00 A.M. and stays pretty much negligible until 11:45 A.M. or so.

    White people who hang out with black people have a screw loose. Even black people who can afford it don't hang out with black people. Kanye West lives in a white neighborhood. The exceptions to this rule really stick out. See Marvin Harrison. Keeping it real is one of those fairy tales like self-made man which does happen but it's rare.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …be elsewhere by 10:45 A.M. Violent reckless people are overwhelmingly late risers.

    It works in most situations, thugs don’t wake up early and are slow to get going. But with official sponsored thuggery it is the opposite, they like early mornings then fizzle out.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow

    Now that is an excellent point. Is Antifa a career path? Do they get compensated for punctuality and attendance?

    Replies: @Beckow

  30. @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    ...be elsewhere by 10:45 A.M. Violent reckless people are overwhelmingly late risers.
     
    It works in most situations, thugs don't wake up early and are slow to get going. But with official sponsored thuggery it is the opposite, they like early mornings then fizzle out.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Now that is an excellent point. Is Antifa a career path? Do they get compensated for punctuality and attendance?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Officials like to get home early whether they do it themselves or through hired help. Remember that Antifa activities (broadly defined) are always supervised.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

  31. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Did you watch Huberman and Fridman from a couple days ago?

    There were two valuable slips that I heard in a large stew of garbage.

    1. There are American combat troops on the ground right now in Ukraine.

    2. Huberman will "never reveal my preferences for pandemic related things for hopefully obvious reasons";

    (the only conceivable obvious reason to me is that he is mealy mouthed two faced wishy washy suck ass (for professional reasons)).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LondonBob

    Scott Ritter was talking on Judge Napolitano’s show about the radio traffic from the ‘Ukrainian’ side is almost all Polish, English etc.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @LondonBob


    radio traffic from the ‘Ukrainian’ side is almost all Polish, English etc.
     
    So, Polish army will get beaten even w/o their country officially entering the war. English-speaking scum is most likely mercenaries: there are no rumors of any English-speaking country being stupid enough to send its regular troops to Ukraine.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @showmethereal

  32. Really strong PMI out of Russia, meanwhile the dire economic numbers keep coming from the US.

    Interesting listening to The Duran today, hadn’t heard about the Monaco Battalion, some distinctly dodgy stuff go on between the Jewish oligarchs, the CIA, the Ukraine and the Democrat Party, with spooks currency, crypto, very much involved.

  33. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow

    Now that is an excellent point. Is Antifa a career path? Do they get compensated for punctuality and attendance?

    Replies: @Beckow

    Officials like to get home early whether they do it themselves or through hired help. Remember that Antifa activities (broadly defined) are always supervised.

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @Beckow

    The Poland scum "football" team reached new low depths against Argentina. Easily the footballing equivalent of a war crime - they were that bad, cowardly and useless but still cheated getting through to next stage.

    Switzerland are similarly negative and boring, just not anywhere near the same level of negative and boring. I am praying for Serbia to defeat the organ-harvesters (kosovan connection)-Africans-Turks that make up the Switzerland team

  34. @LondonBob
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Scott Ritter was talking on Judge Napolitano's show about the radio traffic from the 'Ukrainian' side is almost all Polish, English etc.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    radio traffic from the ‘Ukrainian’ side is almost all Polish, English etc.

    So, Polish army will get beaten even w/o their country officially entering the war. English-speaking scum is most likely mercenaries: there are no rumors of any English-speaking country being stupid enough to send its regular troops to Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    What is going to happen to the narrative if and when the Russians administer capital punishment to the first captured American merc the Americans balk at ransoming?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    True but the “former” US and British and Canadian military who went there are mercenaries I would guess were paid out of some “black funds” from some intelligence services.

  35. stronglifts.com

    Those from mercantile cultures (West of Fars & East of Delhi) must be shocked at honor cultures.
    Basic assumptions about the intent behind things can make conversation nigh impossible.

    Sucks for the cucks.


    An individualist mercantile mindset is about improving the brand, competition to bottom.
    Posting a fitness video is subtly trying to say I’m the most fit,

    In a honor culture it’s about improving group fitness.
    Telling others to lift is so you have people to fight/play with..

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Did you see the more plates more dates you tube where he has the leaked (stolen) Liver King e-mail?

    It is one of the funnier internet episodes of the year. 5000 dollars a month HGH and daily needle injections. Ouch.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    , @Mikel
    @Sher Singh

    If you just changed your motto slightly to "Worship beef, lift weights" you might get plenty of Basque converts.

    https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/a16defe84b4447a894fa751d0f9aa259/b20-738017.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  36. @AnonfromTN
    @LondonBob


    radio traffic from the ‘Ukrainian’ side is almost all Polish, English etc.
     
    So, Polish army will get beaten even w/o their country officially entering the war. English-speaking scum is most likely mercenaries: there are no rumors of any English-speaking country being stupid enough to send its regular troops to Ukraine.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @showmethereal

    What is going to happen to the narrative if and when the Russians administer capital punishment to the first captured American merc the Americans balk at ransoming?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    What is going to happen to the narrative if and when the Russians administer capital punishment to the first captured American merc the Americans balk at ransoming?
     
    That might have been good trolling, but I doubt that’s going to happen. If memory serves, DPR (before joining the RF) captured a British merc, tried him, and condemned him to death. End result: he was returned to Brits in some kind of a shady deal (ransomed, using your term). Note that DPR had capital punishment, which the RF does not (even though 70-80% of Russian population supports its reinstatement). My guess is captured American mercs will be used as bargaining chips, but won’t be executed (even though IMO they deserve it).
  37. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    What is going to happen to the narrative if and when the Russians administer capital punishment to the first captured American merc the Americans balk at ransoming?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    What is going to happen to the narrative if and when the Russians administer capital punishment to the first captured American merc the Americans balk at ransoming?

    That might have been good trolling, but I doubt that’s going to happen. If memory serves, DPR (before joining the RF) captured a British merc, tried him, and condemned him to death. End result: he was returned to Brits in some kind of a shady deal (ransomed, using your term). Note that DPR had capital punishment, which the RF does not (even though 70-80% of Russian population supports its reinstatement). My guess is captured American mercs will be used as bargaining chips, but won’t be executed (even though IMO they deserve it).

    • Agree: Sher Singh
  38. @Sher Singh
    stronglifts.com

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4z7EXJ42pc

    Those from mercantile cultures (West of Fars & East of Delhi) must be shocked at honor cultures.
    Basic assumptions about the intent behind things can make conversation nigh impossible.

    Sucks for the cucks.

    --
    An individualist mercantile mindset is about improving the brand, competition to bottom.
    Posting a fitness video is subtly trying to say I'm the most fit,

    In a honor culture it's about improving group fitness.
    Telling others to lift is so you have people to fight/play with..

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Mikel

    Did you see the more plates more dates you tube where he has the leaked (stolen) Liver King e-mail?

    It is one of the funnier internet episodes of the year. 5000 dollars a month HGH and daily needle injections. Ouch.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Na, bromley made a vid about it but I've just been focused on lifting.

    Going for the 8th workout in 8 days when that should take me 16 on bullmastiff.

    https://twitter.com/mansionsengh/status/1594866916900102145/photo/3

    Going for a 600+ deadlift & 300+ front squat atm.
    After that wanna hit mid 300s bench & low 200s OHP by next fall hopefully?

    Only 20-40lb in each case tbh.
    ---
    Bullmastiff is 3 waves body building 3 waves strength (3 weeks each - 18 total + 1 test/rest).
    Strength been exploding since I started wave 2 of strength (week 13) & last session of 14 now.
    Began it mid-August.


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Wow. I just looked that up and talk about retarded. That guy is just the male version of Pamela Anderson with her fake boobs and a surgically sculpted butt. He must have too much free time.

    Does he do anything remotely useful with those muscles other than eat raw livers on social media?

    Does that guy even own shirts or is he too cool for them?

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

  39. The German juggernaut is down and out. Damn.

    Japan proving to be a dark horse. Defeating Spain and Germany. Impressive. I’ll be rooting for them for the rest of the tournament.

    Interesting World Cup. I take back my snide remarks about football watching.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Yahya

    Germany have been poor for a while, aside from the keeper no really world class players, surprising how many weak teams there are. Spain, France, England and Brazil the strongest.

    Japan are fun to watch, thought they blew it with the loss to Costa Rica, hope they keep going.

    One of my pet hates is how the information wars have politicised tournaments, been a good one so far, despite the usual media kvetching.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  40. Sher Singh says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Did you see the more plates more dates you tube where he has the leaked (stolen) Liver King e-mail?

    It is one of the funnier internet episodes of the year. 5000 dollars a month HGH and daily needle injections. Ouch.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    Na, bromley made a vid about it but I’ve just been focused on lifting.

    Going for the 8th workout in 8 days when that should take me 16 on bullmastiff.

    https://twitter.com/mansionsengh/status/1594866916900102145/photo/3

    Going for a 600+ deadlift & 300+ front squat atm.
    After that wanna hit mid 300s bench & low 200s OHP by next fall hopefully?

    Only 20-40lb in each case tbh.

    Bullmastiff is 3 waves body building 3 waves strength (3 weeks each – 18 total + 1 test/rest).
    Strength been exploding since I started wave 2 of strength (week 13) & last session of 14 now.
    Began it mid-August.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    You'll probably find this funny, but I've been thinking lately that I should take up dance or martial arts. I have a lot of speed and wiry strength but could be better in flexibility, fine control, and balance. I think that will keep me running at peak for the longest period possible. In my case I have to worry about mostly falling off tall things and overuse injuries.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  41. @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    For conservative I was thinking Small town Ontario & Alberta. Steadfast in the old narrative & looking to enforce it. Toronto & the Maritimes are more laid back. They see liberalism as a guideline rather than a principle.

    Things seem less polarized than 2020, but I'm also back in a mostly Panjabi area so I can't tell. I do sort of like bouncing back between the enclave and general society at times.

    xxxhttps://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/z9ddsh/trudeau_accuses_conservatives_of_being_deep_in/

    Interesting video. I don't really know I'm back to just being Panjabi. No time for Hindus and their cucked bullshit. With Hinduism, Bhuddism & Sikhi all coming from Panjab what's left to say? Bharat is great when ruled from Panjab & stretching to the Caspian. Not worth mentioning otherwise,

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/973087973266567208/1047746903485448264/IMG_5020.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787635978746986496/1047788750723350558/IMG_20221201_031811.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    Posting a fitness video is subtly trying to say I’m the most fit

    That is the strange dynamic of social media culture. It’s perverse for people to constantly branding themselves. It’s peak capitalism at it’s finest.

    I like in a rural area and it’s quite red and Trumpy. I find some of that to be obnoxious in all honesty as a lot of it is powered by knee-jerk Republican programming. People are only starting to get that corporate America or the surveillance state is their enemy now that it has turned Woke/ controlled by Biden. They are the same people who enthusiastically built it brick by brick in the W. Bush years.

    However nice it is to imagine that the social accommodation that seemed plausible in the 90’s is a realistic possibility, I think that it is not. Increasingly it seems like we’ll be facing an inevitable choice between an authoritarian Right and a totalitarian Left (if we even have a choice), as I think the general populace is too uneducated and lazy to even make a stab at representative government of even degraded form.

    If that truly is the choice, than I would have to choose the group that might beat up gays over the group that believes in “Trans kids”.

    Realistically though, I think it will ultimately be necessary to go underground a bit, and find ways to subvert the system. The Left has been very successful in their model and actual conservatives would do well to pay attention.

    A large part of that comes down to the kids. I see so many people in their 60’s bitch and moan about younger people, but who raised them? They sure didn’t spring ex nihilo from Saul Alinsky’s head like Athena. If you don’t raise kids with something compelling to believe in the void will be filled by others.

    Any conservative or dissident from the current order needs to make sure their ultimate goal is to live off one income and raise their kids themselves. Sending one’s kids to public school is a losing game as the time spent in counter programming the negative values propounded all day makes it that much harder to find time to inculcate positive values.

    Out of curiousity, do the Sikhs in a place like Canada send their kids to the public school or do you have any your own institutions?

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Barbarossa

    I never understood the obsession with extreme weight lifting and body building. It doesn’t help in a fight. Plenty of bulky people get beat up by smaller people who have good technique for hitting. All that bulk doesn’t extend life either…. Strength training does (of course with good lifestyle and cardio…. But bulky muscles doesn’t do much unless someone is a lumber Jack….

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Mikel

  42. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Did you see the more plates more dates you tube where he has the leaked (stolen) Liver King e-mail?

    It is one of the funnier internet episodes of the year. 5000 dollars a month HGH and daily needle injections. Ouch.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    Wow. I just looked that up and talk about retarded. That guy is just the male version of Pamela Anderson with her fake boobs and a surgically sculpted butt. He must have too much free time.

    Does he do anything remotely useful with those muscles other than eat raw livers on social media?

    Does that guy even own shirts or is he too cool for them?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Does that guy even own shirts or is he too cool for them?
     
    Nope. Too SEXY for them. The suit in the live version is... Ummmmmm... Impressive?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=czNZox8iM-E

    The original is below [MORE]. The Bangles were disturbing enough... Is this another portent?

    PEACE 😇



    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5mtclwloEQ
    , @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    Tracy Telligman (most often billed as "Tra" Telligman /ˈtreɪ/; born February 7, 1965) is a retired American mixed martial artist and boxer who has fought in the UFC, PRIDE, and Pancrase. He is also known for fighting despite having only one pectoralis major muscle.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tra_Telligman

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  43. @goldgettin
    Not another thread.
    Seriously,what is someone supposed to do with
    another thread?Have we not enough threads?
    Maybe there are too many threads...?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @building7

    To keep up with ZOG tricks

  44. @Sher Singh
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Na, bromley made a vid about it but I've just been focused on lifting.

    Going for the 8th workout in 8 days when that should take me 16 on bullmastiff.

    https://twitter.com/mansionsengh/status/1594866916900102145/photo/3

    Going for a 600+ deadlift & 300+ front squat atm.
    After that wanna hit mid 300s bench & low 200s OHP by next fall hopefully?

    Only 20-40lb in each case tbh.
    ---
    Bullmastiff is 3 waves body building 3 waves strength (3 weeks each - 18 total + 1 test/rest).
    Strength been exploding since I started wave 2 of strength (week 13) & last session of 14 now.
    Began it mid-August.


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    You’ll probably find this funny, but I’ve been thinking lately that I should take up dance or martial arts. I have a lot of speed and wiry strength but could be better in flexibility, fine control, and balance. I think that will keep me running at peak for the longest period possible. In my case I have to worry about mostly falling off tall things and overuse injuries.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    The Combat Arms does Yoga & strongman/powerlifting is also big on body mechanics.
    Sikhs do have private schools in BC but mostly public.


    As of the 2021 Census, more than half of Canada's Sikhs can be found in one of four cities: Brampton (163,260),[17] Surrey (154,415),[18] Calgary (49,465),[19] and Abbotsford (38,395).
     
    Metros aren't woke outside the Bohemian-Anglo core.
    Anglo Men, Catholic Women are old woke in Canada.
    Korean women are the new kid on HR block.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqukjOcY3ok
    Been doing this between sets due to a bicep/forearm imbalance.
    Forearm is too strong relatively,

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/wt9e6q/most_common_second_languages_in_toronto/

    Natives & blacks are the designated crybabies.
    Left & Right will air & weaponize their grievances.

    Chinese, German, Hindu & Pole all try to join the woke coalition, but can't.
    The first 2 are far too autistic, and latter bellyache way too much.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  45. @Sher Singh
    stronglifts.com

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4z7EXJ42pc

    Those from mercantile cultures (West of Fars & East of Delhi) must be shocked at honor cultures.
    Basic assumptions about the intent behind things can make conversation nigh impossible.

    Sucks for the cucks.

    --
    An individualist mercantile mindset is about improving the brand, competition to bottom.
    Posting a fitness video is subtly trying to say I'm the most fit,

    In a honor culture it's about improving group fitness.
    Telling others to lift is so you have people to fight/play with..

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Mikel

    If you just changed your motto slightly to “Worship beef, lift weights” you might get plenty of Basque converts.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    Why would we change our religion to suit others, are the Basque familiar with that?
    You proudly told of Basque women mounting Aryan steeds to preserve the native tongue.
    Would that lineage really enhance the Khalsa?

    https://twitter.com/kaljugi/status/1598006267095973888?s=20

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    Replies: @Mikel

  46. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Wow. I just looked that up and talk about retarded. That guy is just the male version of Pamela Anderson with her fake boobs and a surgically sculpted butt. He must have too much free time.

    Does he do anything remotely useful with those muscles other than eat raw livers on social media?

    Does that guy even own shirts or is he too cool for them?

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    Does that guy even own shirts or is he too cool for them?

    Nope. Too SEXY for them. The suit in the live version is… Ummmmmm… Impressive?

    The original is below [MORE]. The Bangles were disturbing enough… Is this another portent?

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

  47. Sher Singh says:
    @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    You'll probably find this funny, but I've been thinking lately that I should take up dance or martial arts. I have a lot of speed and wiry strength but could be better in flexibility, fine control, and balance. I think that will keep me running at peak for the longest period possible. In my case I have to worry about mostly falling off tall things and overuse injuries.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    The Combat Arms does Yoga & strongman/powerlifting is also big on body mechanics.
    Sikhs do have private schools in BC but mostly public.

    As of the 2021 Census, more than half of Canada’s Sikhs can be found in one of four cities: Brampton (163,260),[17] Surrey (154,415),[18] Calgary (49,465),[19] and Abbotsford (38,395).

    Metros aren’t woke outside the Bohemian-Anglo core.
    Anglo Men, Catholic Women are old woke in Canada.
    Korean women are the new kid on HR block.

    [MORE]

    Been doing this between sets due to a bicep/forearm imbalance.
    Forearm is too strong relatively,

    Most common second languages in Toronto from ontario

    Natives & blacks are the designated crybabies.
    Left & Right will air & weaponize their grievances.

    Chinese, German, Hindu & Pole all try to join the woke coalition, but can’t.
    The first 2 are far too autistic, and latter bellyache way too much.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Body building gyms are fake and gay.

    This guy is the only guru any man could possibly need.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The prime directive: if it hurts do something else.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @showmethereal

  48. @Mikel
    @Sher Singh

    If you just changed your motto slightly to "Worship beef, lift weights" you might get plenty of Basque converts.

    https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/a16defe84b4447a894fa751d0f9aa259/b20-738017.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Why would we change our religion to suit others, are the Basque familiar with that?
    You proudly told of Basque women mounting Aryan steeds to preserve the native tongue.
    Would that lineage really enhance the Khalsa?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Sher Singh


    Would that lineage really enhance the Khalsa?
     
    I don't know what the Khalsa is so I can't answer that question. I was just trying to find some commonality between us and offer a suggestion that would also improve your lifestyle. That has nothing to do with you mounting anybody at all but feel free to publish your wild fantasies for everybody to see lol

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  49. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Wow. I just looked that up and talk about retarded. That guy is just the male version of Pamela Anderson with her fake boobs and a surgically sculpted butt. He must have too much free time.

    Does he do anything remotely useful with those muscles other than eat raw livers on social media?

    Does that guy even own shirts or is he too cool for them?

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    Tracy Telligman (most often billed as “Tra” Telligman /ˈtreɪ/; born February 7, 1965) is a retired American mixed martial artist and boxer who has fought in the UFC, PRIDE, and Pancrase. He is also known for fighting despite having only one pectoralis major muscle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tra_Telligman

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Wow. That's impressive, Thanks.

    Replies: @songbird

  50. General (Ret) Shirreff, ex Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europ, like many others doesn’t want to say anything that might encourage Russia and make it think it has the West over a barrel. But the truth is the US has not given Ukraine the main things it is asking for, such as the Army Tactical Missile System and much else they could have because Russia is fragile, belligerent, and non conventionally extremely dangerous. Shirreff,’s 2017 book in which Western intel hackers prevent escalation by causing a Russian nuke to explode on the launch pad is fiction .

    The almost certain cancelation of the lease on Crimea in 2014 precipitating Putin into instantly annexing Crimea shows the the value Putin places on Crimea implied by his 2014 invasion to keep it; all this hardly suggests he, or maybe any, Russian leadership will accept losing Crimea. What tends to be assumed in this much jingoistic commentary of YT that after Ukraine (hypothetically) gets its lost territories back Russia will just throw up its hands and quit, but that is very unlikely. Crimea is basically Russian and given all the Russian speakers who have been moved there from Kherson and other places the Ukrainians have taken it is extremely doubtful that Ukraine could win any kind of referendum there. In summary, Ukraine has not thought it through; they can win a hundred battles, but the war will keep going on.

    America has in fact not given Ukraine several things they asked for. While exposed as weakER in conventional warfare than previously thought, Russia has not been affected in thermonuclear capacity one iota. As General Tim Cross has said putting our foot on the Russian neck and pressing down is not without risk. One ought not to imply that the worse things get for the Russians the less likely they are to do something stupid. It’s not that safe and simple. Sheriff seems to be forgetting Britain’s prime directive is to ensures the security of the UK The security of Ukraine is an incident, not an end, and the longer the war in Ukraine goes on and the worse Russia is doing the more chance of a miscalculation.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
  51. @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    Why would we change our religion to suit others, are the Basque familiar with that?
    You proudly told of Basque women mounting Aryan steeds to preserve the native tongue.
    Would that lineage really enhance the Khalsa?

    https://twitter.com/kaljugi/status/1598006267095973888?s=20

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    Replies: @Mikel

    Would that lineage really enhance the Khalsa?

    I don’t know what the Khalsa is so I can’t answer that question. I was just trying to find some commonality between us and offer a suggestion that would also improve your lifestyle. That has nothing to do with you mounting anybody at all but feel free to publish your wild fantasies for everybody to see lol

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5627465


    All I know about those distant events is that eventually our women made the fearsome invaders switch their language to our own and adopt our customs
     
    You're too much of a catholic bitch to even admit you were trying to offend.
    Literal sub-human trying to give advice.

    Here's a suggestion: https://speakmoroccan.com/

    Replies: @Mikel

  52. @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    Tracy Telligman (most often billed as "Tra" Telligman /ˈtreɪ/; born February 7, 1965) is a retired American mixed martial artist and boxer who has fought in the UFC, PRIDE, and Pancrase. He is also known for fighting despite having only one pectoralis major muscle.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tra_Telligman

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Wow. That’s impressive, Thanks.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa

    Once knew a guy who was born missing a rib. Think he said he had to wear some sort of pad on it, in certain situations, so his internal organs wouldn't get hurt. I was really surprised to hear him say it one day because he was a sort of star athlete, locally. I immediately asked him if he could move his arm normally, having only vague ideas about how the scapula worked, and he seemed to have no problem with it.

  53. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel
    @Sher Singh


    Would that lineage really enhance the Khalsa?
     
    I don't know what the Khalsa is so I can't answer that question. I was just trying to find some commonality between us and offer a suggestion that would also improve your lifestyle. That has nothing to do with you mounting anybody at all but feel free to publish your wild fantasies for everybody to see lol

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5627465

    All I know about those distant events is that eventually our women made the fearsome invaders switch their language to our own and adopt our customs

    You’re too much of a catholic bitch to even admit you were trying to offend.
    Literal sub-human trying to give advice.

    Here’s a suggestion: https://speakmoroccan.com/

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Sher Singh


    you were trying to offend
     
    Not at all. I was trying to joke a little with you but apparently you have nothing but religious zealotry mixed with sexual imaginations in your mind. Sorry that my attempt at lighthearted humor upset you so much. I don't care what you do in your private life as long as you respect women outside of your community but if you don't want people to comment on your beliefs why do you exhibit them here uninvited once and again?

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  54. @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    The Combat Arms does Yoga & strongman/powerlifting is also big on body mechanics.
    Sikhs do have private schools in BC but mostly public.


    As of the 2021 Census, more than half of Canada's Sikhs can be found in one of four cities: Brampton (163,260),[17] Surrey (154,415),[18] Calgary (49,465),[19] and Abbotsford (38,395).
     
    Metros aren't woke outside the Bohemian-Anglo core.
    Anglo Men, Catholic Women are old woke in Canada.
    Korean women are the new kid on HR block.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqukjOcY3ok
    Been doing this between sets due to a bicep/forearm imbalance.
    Forearm is too strong relatively,

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/wt9e6q/most_common_second_languages_in_toronto/

    Natives & blacks are the designated crybabies.
    Left & Right will air & weaponize their grievances.

    Chinese, German, Hindu & Pole all try to join the woke coalition, but can't.
    The first 2 are far too autistic, and latter bellyache way too much.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Body building gyms are fake and gay.

    This guy is the only guru any man could possibly need.

    The prime directive: if it hurts do something else.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hmmm. No picture shows up for me. What did you post?

    By the way I agreed that the MMA fight that Bromance of Three Kingdoms posted last thread was pretty wild. That Korean was huge, were they putting growth hormone in his baby bottle?

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @showmethereal
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Yeah I suspect they are passed down from Greek sports competition where the body was basically worshipped and men competed nakedly. Indeed there is a huge homo erotic vibe to those gyms. Most women aren’t even attracted to it - that’s a first sign.

  55. @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5627465


    All I know about those distant events is that eventually our women made the fearsome invaders switch their language to our own and adopt our customs
     
    You're too much of a catholic bitch to even admit you were trying to offend.
    Literal sub-human trying to give advice.

    Here's a suggestion: https://speakmoroccan.com/

    Replies: @Mikel

    you were trying to offend

    Not at all. I was trying to joke a little with you but apparently you have nothing but religious zealotry mixed with sexual imaginations in your mind. Sorry that my attempt at lighthearted humor upset you so much. I don’t care what you do in your private life as long as you respect women outside of your community but if you don’t want people to comment on your beliefs why do you exhibit them here uninvited once and again?

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    https://swarajyamag.com/news-headlines/zomato-delivery-agent-sagar-singh-stabbed-to-death-by-two-nihang-sikhs-over-smoking-in-delhis-tilak-nagar


    as long as you respect women outside of your community
     
    Or what? We know you won't do anything neither will your government.

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/convicted-somalian-rapist-attacked-two-084627605.html

    100 white women have been raped daily by blacks since 1950.

    At least you have your gastronomic society.
    Both feeling something in your belly.

    don’t want people to comment on your beliefs why do you exhibit them here uninvited once and again?

     

    I wasn't talking to you, stay in your fuckin lane.

    Humor? Here, let me turn you into jesus: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices

    The European man spits game.
    The Aryan spits on his Lund. (before going in)

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  56. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel
    @Sher Singh


    you were trying to offend
     
    Not at all. I was trying to joke a little with you but apparently you have nothing but religious zealotry mixed with sexual imaginations in your mind. Sorry that my attempt at lighthearted humor upset you so much. I don't care what you do in your private life as long as you respect women outside of your community but if you don't want people to comment on your beliefs why do you exhibit them here uninvited once and again?

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    https://swarajyamag.com/news-headlines/zomato-delivery-agent-sagar-singh-stabbed-to-death-by-two-nihang-sikhs-over-smoking-in-delhis-tilak-nagar

    as long as you respect women outside of your community

    Or what? We know you won’t do anything neither will your government.

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/convicted-somalian-rapist-attacked-two-084627605.html

    100 white women have been raped daily by blacks since 1950.

    At least you have your gastronomic society.
    Both feeling something in your belly.

    don’t want people to comment on your beliefs why do you exhibit them here uninvited once and again?

    I wasn’t talking to you, stay in your fuckin lane.

    Humor? Here, let me turn you into jesus: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices

    The European man spits game.
    The Aryan spits on his Lund. (before going in)

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Troll: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling. Certain people just want everyone historical to be aksually gay, I can't imagine why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lead_Codices

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @Mikel

  57. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Wow. That's impressive, Thanks.

    Replies: @songbird

    Once knew a guy who was born missing a rib. Think he said he had to wear some sort of pad on it, in certain situations, so his internal organs wouldn’t get hurt. I was really surprised to hear him say it one day because he was a sort of star athlete, locally. I immediately asked him if he could move his arm normally, having only vague ideas about how the scapula worked, and he seemed to have no problem with it.

  58. @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    https://swarajyamag.com/news-headlines/zomato-delivery-agent-sagar-singh-stabbed-to-death-by-two-nihang-sikhs-over-smoking-in-delhis-tilak-nagar


    as long as you respect women outside of your community
     
    Or what? We know you won't do anything neither will your government.

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/convicted-somalian-rapist-attacked-two-084627605.html

    100 white women have been raped daily by blacks since 1950.

    At least you have your gastronomic society.
    Both feeling something in your belly.

    don’t want people to comment on your beliefs why do you exhibit them here uninvited once and again?

     

    I wasn't talking to you, stay in your fuckin lane.

    Humor? Here, let me turn you into jesus: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/04/jesus-gay-man-codices

    The European man spits game.
    The Aryan spits on his Lund. (before going in)

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling. Certain people just want everyone historical to be aksually gay, I can’t imagine why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lead_Codices

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    Point is he's so triggered by discussion on lifting & honor V mercantile culture he resorts to blasphemy.

    He's just uncomfortable with any religion (culture) outside western christianity, but doesn't attend church. That's the impression I get.

    Anyway, baby sitting Euro Aborigines ain't my job.

    https://akarlin.com/struggle-europe-mankind/

    , @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Go for real history. Or, a close equivalent.

    Do you have a relative that is impossible to shop for? DIY 13th century mace head, less than $50 bucks. (1)



    https://d2r50eqdykdm5j.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TC34_5_L.jpg
     

    This most unique of mace heads is cast in the form of a leering, sneering face – a terrible sight for an unfortunate combatant struck with such a mace! Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century. From Tod Cutler of the UK, this mace head is ready to be mounted onto your own wooden mace haft.
     
    I do not see the "sneering face", but I definitely would not want to be on the receiving end.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.kultofathena.com/product/tod-cutler-brass-mace-head-2-9th-to-19th-century-scandinavian-byzantine-rus/

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @songbird, @Barbarossa

    , @Mikel
    @Barbarossa


    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling.
     
    The problem of suddenly feeling bored and starting an online quarrel is that it can easily go overboard with your opponent attacking the wrong targets and making a general stink for everyone. Apologies for that.

    Besides, I must confess that Sher is right. His dismissive comment against mercantile societies really made my blood boil. Though the real reason for my blasphemy was pure envy for his waist long dreadlocks and beautiful beard and mustache. Women must find them so irresistible.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  59. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling. Certain people just want everyone historical to be aksually gay, I can't imagine why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lead_Codices

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @Mikel

    Point is he’s so triggered by discussion on lifting & honor V mercantile culture he resorts to blasphemy.

    He’s just uncomfortable with any religion (culture) outside western christianity, but doesn’t attend church. That’s the impression I get.

    Anyway, baby sitting Euro Aborigines ain’t my job.

    https://akarlin.com/struggle-europe-mankind/

  60. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Body building gyms are fake and gay.

    This guy is the only guru any man could possibly need.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The prime directive: if it hurts do something else.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @showmethereal

    Hmmm. No picture shows up for me. What did you post?

    By the way I agreed that the MMA fight that Bromance of Three Kingdoms posted last thread was pretty wild. That Korean was huge, were they putting growth hormone in his baby bottle?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    That Korean was huge, were they putting growth hormone in his baby bottle?
     
    Ever hear of this guy, who is a champion arm-wrestler because he was born with a freakishly large arm?

    https://youtu.be/ig9Ntzw2V7I

    I think he's interesting because a lot of these sports champions seem like genetic freaks, but with him it is not necessarily in the DNA.

    That Korean guy was about the size of Richard Kiel, who played the James Bond villain Jaws. Kiel suffered from gigantism. Met him once, when I was a kid. What I really remember was that his hands were really, really unbelievably large. He was also hard of hearing, which I wonder if it was some sort of symptom of his gigantism.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/26451399-functional-training

    The Amazon widget output does not go through Unz's input in some OS-browser combinations. I quit posting Amazon links for awhile altogether and I think I will go back to that.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  61. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling. Certain people just want everyone historical to be aksually gay, I can't imagine why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lead_Codices

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @Mikel

    Go for real history. Or, a close equivalent.

    Do you have a relative that is impossible to shop for? DIY 13th century mace head, less than $50 bucks. (1)


     

    This most unique of mace heads is cast in the form of a leering, sneering face – a terrible sight for an unfortunate combatant struck with such a mace! Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century. From Tod Cutler of the UK, this mace head is ready to be mounted onto your own wooden mace haft.

    I do not see the “sneering face”, but I definitely would not want to be on the receiving end.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.kultofathena.com/product/tod-cutler-brass-mace-head-2-9th-to-19th-century-scandinavian-byzantine-rus/

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @A123

    https://www.kultofathena.com/product/turkish-mace/

    I like this one.

    A good mace or warhammer is essential.

    I wanna get a proper Katar too.

    🙏⚔️

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @songbird
    @A123


    Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century.
     
    Is that AD? This wikipedia article says that bronze or copper maces were sometimes used in Europe in the Middle Ages, in places where iron was rare, which I found very surprising:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(bludgeon)#Western_Europe

    I thought that there was a lot of iron in Scandinavia. Or maybe not? According to my very superficial research, Sweden's big iron mine is pretty far north. But I would have thought there would have still been a lot of bog iron.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123

    , @Barbarossa
    @A123

    Hey, if any one wants to buy me anything for Christmas from Kult of Athena, I'm fine with that!

    I actually have bought a few items from them and they seem to have reliable quality. Even their lower end weapons are far from junk. There are great quantities of absolutely garbage "weapons" on the internet so I'm leery of buying anything from a non-verified source.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kFgeZtkAb8

    Don't let that happen to you!

  62. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Go for real history. Or, a close equivalent.

    Do you have a relative that is impossible to shop for? DIY 13th century mace head, less than $50 bucks. (1)



    https://d2r50eqdykdm5j.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TC34_5_L.jpg
     

    This most unique of mace heads is cast in the form of a leering, sneering face – a terrible sight for an unfortunate combatant struck with such a mace! Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century. From Tod Cutler of the UK, this mace head is ready to be mounted onto your own wooden mace haft.
     
    I do not see the "sneering face", but I definitely would not want to be on the receiving end.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.kultofathena.com/product/tod-cutler-brass-mace-head-2-9th-to-19th-century-scandinavian-byzantine-rus/

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @songbird, @Barbarossa

    https://www.kultofathena.com/product/turkish-mace/

    I like this one.

    A good mace or warhammer is essential.

    I wanna get a proper Katar too.

    🙏⚔️

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Thanks: A123
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Fight porn.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/373454658266

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NpkAAOSwspZgIulC/s-l500.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

  63. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Go for real history. Or, a close equivalent.

    Do you have a relative that is impossible to shop for? DIY 13th century mace head, less than $50 bucks. (1)



    https://d2r50eqdykdm5j.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TC34_5_L.jpg
     

    This most unique of mace heads is cast in the form of a leering, sneering face – a terrible sight for an unfortunate combatant struck with such a mace! Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century. From Tod Cutler of the UK, this mace head is ready to be mounted onto your own wooden mace haft.
     
    I do not see the "sneering face", but I definitely would not want to be on the receiving end.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.kultofathena.com/product/tod-cutler-brass-mace-head-2-9th-to-19th-century-scandinavian-byzantine-rus/

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century.

    Is that AD? This wikipedia article says that bronze or copper maces were sometimes used in Europe in the Middle Ages, in places where iron was rare, which I found very surprising:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(bludgeon)#Western_Europe

    I thought that there was a lot of iron in Scandinavia. Or maybe not? According to my very superficial research, Sweden’s big iron mine is pretty far north. But I would have thought there would have still been a lot of bog iron.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @songbird

    Religious reasons like easier to engrave?
    Cheaper to make or both?
    Association with a certain Devta.

    @barbarossa The personal branding thing's best explanation I've seen is in a 90's nigger movie called baby boy.

    The nigger can't be violent because of the state nor rich enough to show off. So just be a sexual minstrel.

    Religion of love.

    , @A123
    @songbird

    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel. For blunt weapons, if it deforms a bit on impact... Not really an issue.

    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.

    Not much detail, but this was dug up in Romania (1)

    https://siebenburgen.xyz/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/IMG_20190810_152045-1024x576.jpg

     
    On 10 August 2019, near Bistrita ( Bistritz) i found a bronze mace. Is made of bronze with gloves. Kept very well. Is from the 13 the century A.D. Medieval. I donated it to the local museum ” Complexul Muzeal Bistrita-Nasaud”

     

    The open tube construction looks "less cool" then a solid head. So why? It goes on much like an axe head over a thinner handle to the thicker shoulder. You can also recover the mace head easily if the haft breaks.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://siebenburgen.xyz/bronze-mace-from-the-13-the-century-a-d/

    Replies: @songbird

  64. Sher Singh says:
    @songbird
    @A123


    Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century.
     
    Is that AD? This wikipedia article says that bronze or copper maces were sometimes used in Europe in the Middle Ages, in places where iron was rare, which I found very surprising:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(bludgeon)#Western_Europe

    I thought that there was a lot of iron in Scandinavia. Or maybe not? According to my very superficial research, Sweden's big iron mine is pretty far north. But I would have thought there would have still been a lot of bog iron.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123

    Religious reasons like easier to engrave?
    Cheaper to make or both?
    Association with a certain Devta.

    @barbarossa The personal branding thing’s best explanation I’ve seen is in a 90’s nigger movie called baby boy.

    The nigger can’t be violent because of the state nor rich enough to show off. So just be a sexual minstrel.

    Religion of love.

  65. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hmmm. No picture shows up for me. What did you post?

    By the way I agreed that the MMA fight that Bromance of Three Kingdoms posted last thread was pretty wild. That Korean was huge, were they putting growth hormone in his baby bottle?

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    That Korean was huge, were they putting growth hormone in his baby bottle?

    Ever hear of this guy, who is a champion arm-wrestler because he was born with a freakishly large arm?

    [MORE]

    I think he’s interesting because a lot of these sports champions seem like genetic freaks, but with him it is not necessarily in the DNA.

    That Korean guy was about the size of Richard Kiel, who played the James Bond villain Jaws. Kiel suffered from gigantism. Met him once, when I was a kid. What I really remember was that his hands were really, really unbelievably large. He was also hard of hearing, which I wonder if it was some sort of symptom of his gigantism.

  66. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hmmm. No picture shows up for me. What did you post?

    By the way I agreed that the MMA fight that Bromance of Three Kingdoms posted last thread was pretty wild. That Korean was huge, were they putting growth hormone in his baby bottle?

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/26451399-functional-training

    The Amazon widget output does not go through Unz’s input in some OS-browser combinations. I quit posting Amazon links for awhile altogether and I think I will go back to that.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Is that an approach you've used and you've found useful?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  67. @songbird
    @A123


    Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century.
     
    Is that AD? This wikipedia article says that bronze or copper maces were sometimes used in Europe in the Middle Ages, in places where iron was rare, which I found very surprising:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(bludgeon)#Western_Europe

    I thought that there was a lot of iron in Scandinavia. Or maybe not? According to my very superficial research, Sweden's big iron mine is pretty far north. But I would have thought there would have still been a lot of bog iron.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123

    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel. For blunt weapons, if it deforms a bit on impact… Not really an issue.

    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.

    Not much detail, but this was dug up in Romania (1)


     
    On 10 August 2019, near Bistrita ( Bistritz) i found a bronze mace. Is made of bronze with gloves. Kept very well. Is from the 13 the century A.D. Medieval. I donated it to the local museum ” Complexul Muzeal Bistrita-Nasaud”

    The open tube construction looks “less cool” then a solid head. So why? It goes on much like an axe head over a thinner handle to the thicker shoulder. You can also recover the mace head easily if the haft breaks.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://siebenburgen.xyz/bronze-mace-from-the-13-the-century-a-d/

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123

    Thanks, that's an interesting pic.

    And @ Sher Singh


    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel.
     
    Copper is soft, but I expect bronze is hard enough. I think the rarity of tin is the explanation for the changeover to iron.

    -Tin is 2 parts/million in the Earth's crust.
    -Iron is 50,000 parts/million.


    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.
     
    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don't think rust is an issue in blunt objects.

    Anyone have an opinion on those pricey Japanese kitchen knives some people get? Don't want to bias anyone's answer, but I sometimes wonder if it isn't some weird, degraded form of man's ancient instinct to worship weapons, but reduced to a kind of woman's form of worshiping kitchen implements.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

  68. @Sher Singh
    @A123

    https://www.kultofathena.com/product/turkish-mace/

    I like this one.

    A good mace or warhammer is essential.

    I wanna get a proper Katar too.

    🙏⚔️

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Challenge Accepted !

    Opinel #13.... It's a pocket knife folding sword.

    This is a real thing at $100.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xLkd61qew5g

    , @Sher Singh
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
    kha(n)ddaa pirathamai saaj kai jin sabh saisaar upaiaa ||
    At first the Lord created the Khanda (double-edged sword) and then the whole world.

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
    Barhamaa Bisanu Mahesa Saaji Kudarti Daa Khelu Banaaeiaa ॥
    Created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and the play of Nature.

    ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮਾ ਗਗਨ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
    Siaandhu Parbata Medanee Binu Thaanmaa Gagan Rahaaeiaa ॥
    The oceans, mountains and the earth, made the sky stable without columns.


    ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
    Srije Daano Devate Tin Aandari Baadu Rachaaeiaa ॥
    He created the demons and gods and caused strife between them
     
    🙏⚔️



    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/661318913421869086/1008387352122630184/unknown.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/661318913421869086/1023631708333027338/C68rEbzWgAE4jG5.jpg

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ
    , @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I've seen their stuff on eBay and some of their stuff looks nice, but the "Damascus" shtick puts me off. I'm sure it's not actual laminated steel, and is probably just etched to look like it. If they are doing a goofy thing like that it makes me question the overall quality.

    Attempts to make "Damascus" steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.

    I own a bunch of pre- Bessemer process chisels which are laminated steel and if they fail anywhere it's right at the lamination.

    Replies: @A123

  69. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Fight porn.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/373454658266

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NpkAAOSwspZgIulC/s-l500.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    Challenge Accepted !

    Opinel #13…. It’s a pocket knife folding sword.

    This is a real thing at $100.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

  70. Sher Singh says:
    @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Fight porn.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/373454658266

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NpkAAOSwspZgIulC/s-l500.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
    kha(n)ddaa pirathamai saaj kai jin sabh saisaar upaiaa ||
    At first the Lord created the Khanda (double-edged sword) and then the whole world.

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
    Barhamaa Bisanu Mahesa Saaji Kudarti Daa Khelu Banaaeiaa ॥
    Created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and the play of Nature.

    ਸਿੰਧੁ ਪਰਬਤ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਥੰਮਾ ਗਗਨ ਰਹਾਇਆ ॥
    Siaandhu Parbata Medanee Binu Thaanmaa Gagan Rahaaeiaa ॥
    The oceans, mountains and the earth, made the sky stable without columns.

    ਸਿਰਜੇ ਦਾਨੋ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
    Srije Daano Devate Tin Aandari Baadu Rachaaeiaa ॥
    He created the demons and gods and caused strife between them

    🙏⚔️

    [MORE]

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  71. @A123
    @songbird

    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel. For blunt weapons, if it deforms a bit on impact... Not really an issue.

    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.

    Not much detail, but this was dug up in Romania (1)

    https://siebenburgen.xyz/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/IMG_20190810_152045-1024x576.jpg

     
    On 10 August 2019, near Bistrita ( Bistritz) i found a bronze mace. Is made of bronze with gloves. Kept very well. Is from the 13 the century A.D. Medieval. I donated it to the local museum ” Complexul Muzeal Bistrita-Nasaud”

     

    The open tube construction looks "less cool" then a solid head. So why? It goes on much like an axe head over a thinner handle to the thicker shoulder. You can also recover the mace head easily if the haft breaks.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://siebenburgen.xyz/bronze-mace-from-the-13-the-century-a-d/

    Replies: @songbird

    Thanks, that’s an interesting pic.

    And @ Sher Singh

    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel.

    Copper is soft, but I expect bronze is hard enough. I think the rarity of tin is the explanation for the changeover to iron.

    -Tin is 2 parts/million in the Earth’s crust.
    -Iron is 50,000 parts/million.

    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.

    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don’t think rust is an issue in blunt objects.

    Anyone have an opinion on those pricey Japanese kitchen knives some people get? Don’t want to bias anyone’s answer, but I sometimes wonder if it isn’t some weird, degraded form of man’s ancient instinct to worship weapons, but reduced to a kind of woman’s form of worshiping kitchen implements.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @songbird

    https://www.indianclubs.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Hanuman-01.jpg

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/salotar-mehima-in-praise-of-the-club

    Looks like Sikh-led party won't back trudeau gun ban.
    They managed to get the dental care expansion, election in Spring.

    , @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    A brass hammer packs an incredible punch compared to a steel hammer, so the increased density+smaller cross section would have increased the deadliness quite a bit.

    I've never bought fancy Jap kitchen knives. I'm sure they are top notch, like most good Japanese blades. I don't buy Japanese woodworking tools either for the most part. They are great quality but they are too fussy to care for. One guy in the shop goes for Japanese hand tools and complains that if he chips his chisel badly it takes him an hour to sharpen it out. On my 100 year old US chisels I can put a fresh edge back on in 5 or 10 minutes. As long as he fusses with his chisel on his his own time I don't care, but I don't have hours in the day to baby fussy tools!

    For kitchen knives I keep an eye out at yard sales and pick up every old carbon steel kitchen knife I can find. They take a good edge and can be had for a buck or two. People don't like them since they aren't shiny like junk stainless steel.

    Replies: @songbird

  72. Elena Evdokimova
    @elenaevdokimov7
    Religious component of the ethnocide of Russian minority in Ukraine, conducted by Zelensky government.
    Zelensky announced measures aimed at banning Orthodox Church in Ukraine for the presence of church-canonical connection with the Moscow Patriarchate.

    [MORE]

  73. @songbird
    @A123

    Thanks, that's an interesting pic.

    And @ Sher Singh


    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel.
     
    Copper is soft, but I expect bronze is hard enough. I think the rarity of tin is the explanation for the changeover to iron.

    -Tin is 2 parts/million in the Earth's crust.
    -Iron is 50,000 parts/million.


    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.
     
    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don't think rust is an issue in blunt objects.

    Anyone have an opinion on those pricey Japanese kitchen knives some people get? Don't want to bias anyone's answer, but I sometimes wonder if it isn't some weird, degraded form of man's ancient instinct to worship weapons, but reduced to a kind of woman's form of worshiping kitchen implements.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    https://www.manglacharan.com/post/salotar-mehima-in-praise-of-the-club

    Looks like Sikh-led party won’t back trudeau gun ban.
    They managed to get the dental care expansion, election in Spring.

  74. @Yahya
    The German juggernaut is down and out. Damn.

    Japan proving to be a dark horse. Defeating Spain and Germany. Impressive. I’ll be rooting for them for the rest of the tournament.

    Interesting World Cup. I take back my snide remarks about football watching.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    Germany have been poor for a while, aside from the keeper no really world class players, surprising how many weak teams there are. Spain, France, England and Brazil the strongest.

    Japan are fun to watch, thought they blew it with the loss to Costa Rica, hope they keep going.

    One of my pet hates is how the information wars have politicised tournaments, been a good one so far, despite the usual media kvetching.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @LondonBob

    The only thing more surprising about Germany’s recent decline is that of Italy. Even though they won the Euro recently - failing to even qualify twice for the WC is a blight. I’m wondering if it’s because of the drop in population and I creae in age of society - there is just a smaller pool of talent…

    Replies: @Beckow

  75. @AnonfromTN
    @LondonBob


    radio traffic from the ‘Ukrainian’ side is almost all Polish, English etc.
     
    So, Polish army will get beaten even w/o their country officially entering the war. English-speaking scum is most likely mercenaries: there are no rumors of any English-speaking country being stupid enough to send its regular troops to Ukraine.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @showmethereal

    True but the “former” US and British and Canadian military who went there are mercenaries I would guess were paid out of some “black funds” from some intelligence services.

  76. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    Posting a fitness video is subtly trying to say I’m the most fit
     
    That is the strange dynamic of social media culture. It's perverse for people to constantly branding themselves. It's peak capitalism at it's finest.

    I like in a rural area and it's quite red and Trumpy. I find some of that to be obnoxious in all honesty as a lot of it is powered by knee-jerk Republican programming. People are only starting to get that corporate America or the surveillance state is their enemy now that it has turned Woke/ controlled by Biden. They are the same people who enthusiastically built it brick by brick in the W. Bush years.

    However nice it is to imagine that the social accommodation that seemed plausible in the 90's is a realistic possibility, I think that it is not. Increasingly it seems like we'll be facing an inevitable choice between an authoritarian Right and a totalitarian Left (if we even have a choice), as I think the general populace is too uneducated and lazy to even make a stab at representative government of even degraded form.

    If that truly is the choice, than I would have to choose the group that might beat up gays over the group that believes in "Trans kids".

    Realistically though, I think it will ultimately be necessary to go underground a bit, and find ways to subvert the system. The Left has been very successful in their model and actual conservatives would do well to pay attention.

    A large part of that comes down to the kids. I see so many people in their 60's bitch and moan about younger people, but who raised them? They sure didn't spring ex nihilo from Saul Alinsky's head like Athena. If you don't raise kids with something compelling to believe in the void will be filled by others.

    Any conservative or dissident from the current order needs to make sure their ultimate goal is to live off one income and raise their kids themselves. Sending one's kids to public school is a losing game as the time spent in counter programming the negative values propounded all day makes it that much harder to find time to inculcate positive values.

    Out of curiousity, do the Sikhs in a place like Canada send their kids to the public school or do you have any your own institutions?

    Replies: @showmethereal

    I never understood the obsession with extreme weight lifting and body building. It doesn’t help in a fight. Plenty of bulky people get beat up by smaller people who have good technique for hitting. All that bulk doesn’t extend life either…. Strength training does (of course with good lifestyle and cardio…. But bulky muscles doesn’t do much unless someone is a lumber Jack….

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @showmethereal

    You just showed you know nothing about any 5 of those topics.

    fighting
    bodybuilding
    weightlifting
    strength training
    cardio training

    Good job.

    , @Mikel
    @showmethereal


    All that bulk doesn’t extend life either
     
    I wouldn't put it that way. You are possibly right that bodybuilding is not the best strategy for life extension purposes, even if you practice it clean, insofar it involves high consumption of animal protein. At least that's what some (but not all) longevity researchers say. But there are several important caveats:

    - Metabolism varies greatly between individuals and populations. It is difficult to give dietary advice that will work equally well (or at all) for everybody.

    - If these researchers are right, plant-based proteins with low contents of leucin and isoleucin would only have rather modest effects on cell protection and lifespan. At best, a few years in exchange for giving up the pleasure of animal protein.

    - The most important caveat, that relates directly to your statement, is that muscle bulk in itself does extend healthspan and lifespan. Muscle loss is one of the inevitable consequences of aging. It starts at around 30 years of age and becomes worse with each decade. As you age, this muscle loss starts to have increasingly important functional effects. Not only you become unable to do many things that you were able to do before but this progressive lack of activity has detrimental metabolic effects. It also prevents you from you doing vigorous aerobic exercise, that is the best known way to stay healthy, and increases frailty, which reduces lifespan. A hip or other bone fracture would not be a very life-changing event in your 20s but in your 70s-80s it may lead you to early death in a couple of years. The lack of muscle at those ages means that people may never recover from an accident like that. They become semi-paralyzed or bedridden, which increases muscle loss and lack of activity even more and greatly reduces life expectancy.

    The best way to prevent all of that is to maintain as much muscle as you can in your old age. This, in turn, is easier if you achieved good muscle size in your youth, when you really are able to generate good hypertrophy. Keeping or returning to a muscle mass that was already there is much easier than trying to generate that muscle at an old age, when metabolism, strength and joint health are all playing against you.

    I don't particularly like lifting weights at the gym, I much prefer strenuous exercise in nature, but it is what it is. Btw, a very little known fact is that muscle cells are the only cells that never develop cancer. It is not known why but scientists hope to apply their knowledge to the cure of cancer when they finally unravel the secret.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  77. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Body building gyms are fake and gay.

    This guy is the only guru any man could possibly need.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The prime directive: if it hurts do something else.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @showmethereal

    Yeah I suspect they are passed down from Greek sports competition where the body was basically worshipped and men competed nakedly. Indeed there is a huge homo erotic vibe to those gyms. Most women aren’t even attracted to it – that’s a first sign.

  78. @showmethereal
    @Barbarossa

    I never understood the obsession with extreme weight lifting and body building. It doesn’t help in a fight. Plenty of bulky people get beat up by smaller people who have good technique for hitting. All that bulk doesn’t extend life either…. Strength training does (of course with good lifestyle and cardio…. But bulky muscles doesn’t do much unless someone is a lumber Jack….

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Mikel

    You just showed you know nothing about any 5 of those topics.

    fighting
    bodybuilding
    weightlifting
    strength training
    cardio training

    Good job.

    • Troll: showmethereal
  79. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    Go for real history. Or, a close equivalent.

    Do you have a relative that is impossible to shop for? DIY 13th century mace head, less than $50 bucks. (1)



    https://d2r50eqdykdm5j.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TC34_5_L.jpg
     

    This most unique of mace heads is cast in the form of a leering, sneering face – a terrible sight for an unfortunate combatant struck with such a mace! Cast from solid bronze it is based on a Scandinavian original in the Bergen museum dated to the 13th – 14th century. From Tod Cutler of the UK, this mace head is ready to be mounted onto your own wooden mace haft.
     
    I do not see the "sneering face", but I definitely would not want to be on the receiving end.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄
    ___________________________

    (1) https://www.kultofathena.com/product/tod-cutler-brass-mace-head-2-9th-to-19th-century-scandinavian-byzantine-rus/

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Hey, if any one wants to buy me anything for Christmas from Kult of Athena, I’m fine with that!

    I actually have bought a few items from them and they seem to have reliable quality. Even their lower end weapons are far from junk. There are great quantities of absolutely garbage “weapons” on the internet so I’m leery of buying anything from a non-verified source.

    Don’t let that happen to you!

    • LOL: A123
  80. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Sher Singh

    Fight porn.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/373454658266

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NpkAAOSwspZgIulC/s-l500.jpg

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    I’ve seen their stuff on eBay and some of their stuff looks nice, but the “Damascus” shtick puts me off. I’m sure it’s not actual laminated steel, and is probably just etched to look like it. If they are doing a goofy thing like that it makes me question the overall quality.

    Attempts to make “Damascus” steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.

    I own a bunch of pre- Bessemer process chisels which are laminated steel and if they fail anywhere it’s right at the lamination.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Attempts to make “Damascus” steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.
     
    My understanding is that historic Damascus steel was better than its contemporary alternatives because they:

    • Imported low carbon iron from as far a way as India
    • Had the skill & tools to crucible at much higher temperature

    The higher temperature allowed more impurities to be removed. The watery finish is a byproduct of the maximum temperature and time to reach it. Perhaps the appearance was useful as pre-marketing branding. However, the craftsman of the time were actually trying to minimize this result.

    Most of the eBay "Damascus" items are likely pattern weld, hydro coated, or other surface treatment. Today's good quality, high carbon steels are vastly better and cheaper than the historic, but obsolete, Damascus process.


    @songbird

    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don’t think rust is an issue in blunt objects.
     

    Ultimately, steel did displace bronze and brass. However, they did overlap for quite some time. There are a number of theories about the replacement cycle:

    • The softer materials can be worked at lower temperatures, thus requiring less fuel.

    • Craft skills were trained in families, so if your father was a bronze/brass worker that is what you learned. Also, the 1st son would inherit the tools for working brass/bronze when the inevitable happened.

    • A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft... Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick. If your bronze pointy mace becomes somewhat spherical while beating on armored foes. You still have a weapon, not a stick.

    • Both you and Barbarossa have mentioned the higher density, force concentration. I concur. Bronze weapons with a pick or beak delivered devastating damage.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

  81. @songbird
    @A123

    Thanks, that's an interesting pic.

    And @ Sher Singh


    For blades it was worth the cost & effort to upgrade to steel.
     
    Copper is soft, but I expect bronze is hard enough. I think the rarity of tin is the explanation for the changeover to iron.

    -Tin is 2 parts/million in the Earth's crust.
    -Iron is 50,000 parts/million.


    Iron and low quality steel rusts. Bronze does not, which is useful in the field.
     
    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don't think rust is an issue in blunt objects.

    Anyone have an opinion on those pricey Japanese kitchen knives some people get? Don't want to bias anyone's answer, but I sometimes wonder if it isn't some weird, degraded form of man's ancient instinct to worship weapons, but reduced to a kind of woman's form of worshiping kitchen implements.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    A brass hammer packs an incredible punch compared to a steel hammer, so the increased density+smaller cross section would have increased the deadliness quite a bit.

    I’ve never bought fancy Jap kitchen knives. I’m sure they are top notch, like most good Japanese blades. I don’t buy Japanese woodworking tools either for the most part. They are great quality but they are too fussy to care for. One guy in the shop goes for Japanese hand tools and complains that if he chips his chisel badly it takes him an hour to sharpen it out. On my 100 year old US chisels I can put a fresh edge back on in 5 or 10 minutes. As long as he fusses with his chisel on his his own time I don’t care, but I don’t have hours in the day to baby fussy tools!

    For kitchen knives I keep an eye out at yard sales and pick up every old carbon steel kitchen knife I can find. They take a good edge and can be had for a buck or two. People don’t like them since they aren’t shiny like junk stainless steel.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I’ve never bought fancy Jap kitchen knives. I’m sure they are top notch
     
    Don't know anything about the current brands that I've heard people allude to (and can't recall the exact names), but I get kind of suspicious because I remember the fake Japanese kitchen knife brand called "Ginsu." They were still a thing in the '90s. Don't remember it, but apparently the brand of choice for Lorena Bobbitt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginsu

    I'm wondering again about men and kitchen knives. Wish we had an anthropologist on here, but I'm thinking it may have been the men who always did the carving. All I recall is that women and children were usually given the junk parts or leftovers in many societies.
  82. About that EV future: (1)

    Switzerland Mulling Bans on Electric Car Use Amid Energy Shortages

    As a result of the ongoing energy crisis throughout Europe, Switzerland is considering a ban on the use of electric cars for non-essential purposes.

    Owners of Teslas, Volts, and other electric cars in Switzerland may soon find themselves taking the bus, with the country reportedly considering a partial ban on using EVs as part of a host of measures aimed at saving electricity.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/12/02/switzerland-mulling-bans-on-electric-car-use-amid-energy-shortages/

    • Replies: @Sean
    @A123

    One wonders whether Bitcoin mining being banned will come under consideration, and what that would do to the market price.

  83. German_reader says:

    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide (AfD and LINKE abstained):
    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundestag-verurteilt-holodomor-als-voelkermord-a-3e37be56-6dbb-4cbd-93a1-f9b2b8b0c81f

    Mental, making this kind of fake history an official dogma in the politics of remembrance won’t lead to anything positive. They’ve taken leave of all good sense.

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    They’ve taken leave of all good sense.
     
    That isn’t new. German “leaders” have taken leave of common sense way back in 2014. I’d say Western politicians have lost their minds, if I were sure they had something to lose.
    , @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader

    Why the misplaced pathos and weird histrionics? Raphael Lemkin, an expert in the field and actually the one who first coined the word "genocide" came to the conclusion that the holodomor was indeed a "classic" example of genocide:


    As long as Ukraine retains its national unity, as long as its people continue to think of themselves as Ukrainians and to seek independence, so long Ukraine poses a serious threat to the very heart of Sovietism. It is no wonder that the Communist leaders have attached the greatest importance to the Russification of this independent[-minded] member of their “Union of Republics [Sound familiar? Harken back to Putler's paper that he produced right before he decided to invade Ukraine] they have determined to remake it to fit their pattern of one Russian nation. For the Ukrainian is not and has never been, a Russian. His culture, his temperament, his language, his religion – all are different.


    "What I want to speak about is perhaps the classic example of Soviet genocide, its longest and broadest experiment in Russification – the destruction of the Ukrainian nation. […]...Ukraine is highly susceptible to racial murder by select parts and so the Communist tactics there have not followed the pattern taken by the German attacks against the Jews. The nation is too populous to be exterminated completely with any efficiency. However, its leadership, religious, intellectual, political, its select and determining parts, are quite small and therefore easily eliminated, and so it is upon these groups particularly that the full force of the Soviet axe has fallen, with its familiar tools of mass murder, deportation and forced labor, exile and starvation...Ukraine is highly susceptible to racial murder by select parts and so the Communist tactics there have not followed the pattern taken by the German attacks against the Jews. The nation is too populous to be exterminated completely with any efficiency. However, its leadership, religious, intellectual, political, its select and determining parts, are quite small and therefore easily eliminated, and so it is upon these groups particularly that the full force of the Soviet axe has fallen, with its familiar tools of mass murder, deportation and forced labor, exile and starvation.

    […] This is not simply a case of mass murder. It is a case of genocide, of destruction, not of individuals only, but of a culture and a nation. […] Soviet national unity is being created, not by any union of ideas and of cultures, but by the complete destruction of all cultures and of all ideas save one – the Soviet.

     

    There's more to Lemkin's indictment, including how the soviets systematically uprooted the farmer/peasant class too. There's too much to quote here, so read his whole excerpted denouncement here: http://www.holodomorsurvivors.ca/About%20Raphae%20Lemkin.html

    I think that Germany has made the correct choice here, joning many other countries that have made such a choice earlier on.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @songbird
    @German_reader

    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.

    Personally, I don't really see anything positive in promoting the idea that the potato famine in Ireland was a genocide. People promoting the idea never seem to talk about migration into Ireland. I prefer the Plantation 2.0 rhetoric, which seems more squarely directed at hostile foreigners and the corrupt regime. It even has the good point of making the modern regime seem more evil, by one measure, as they don't seem to plan on setting aside any land for the natives.

    Here is Justin Barrett, lead figure of the National Party: (admittedly a fringe party, with no elected pols).
    Money quote starts @ 4:50
    https://youtu.be/PiizgO-M4hM

    With the Armenians, the Turks are arguably more of an outgroup, and they certainly seem to be a negative political force in Europe, promoting migration and diversity. (Perhaps this is true of Armenians as well, but their numbers are smaller.) Though, OTOH, it seems to be true that Turkey is increasingly on the receiving end of migration, with it seemingly being facilitated by some level of domestic poz.

    Ukraine is interesting because it seems to have the greatest potential to upset WW2 as a sort of suicidal religion for Euros. Though, what I find disquieting is the tendency of certain EEs to conflate Soviet and Russian crimes. And this seems to have the potential to add to the weird racialism of progressives regarding Russians.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide
     
    I agree that is was stupid, but it wasn’t the first and won’t be the last stupid thing German politicians did. I saw the demo in Leipzig against the support of Ukraine (naturally, on one of the African news channels, as European news channels do not report politically incorrect news). The demo was after sunset. I was in Leipzig many times before, and remember it well. Total lack of street illumination struck me most. The only source of light were flashers of police cars. That’s direct result of the policies of German elites.

    There is Russian saying that you don’t bemoan the loss of your hair when your head is cut off.

    Replies: @German_reader

  84. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I've seen their stuff on eBay and some of their stuff looks nice, but the "Damascus" shtick puts me off. I'm sure it's not actual laminated steel, and is probably just etched to look like it. If they are doing a goofy thing like that it makes me question the overall quality.

    Attempts to make "Damascus" steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.

    I own a bunch of pre- Bessemer process chisels which are laminated steel and if they fail anywhere it's right at the lamination.

    Replies: @A123

    Attempts to make “Damascus” steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.

    My understanding is that historic Damascus steel was better than its contemporary alternatives because they:

    • Imported low carbon iron from as far a way as India
    • Had the skill & tools to crucible at much higher temperature

    The higher temperature allowed more impurities to be removed. The watery finish is a byproduct of the maximum temperature and time to reach it. Perhaps the appearance was useful as pre-marketing branding. However, the craftsman of the time were actually trying to minimize this result.

    Most of the eBay “Damascus” items are likely pattern weld, hydro coated, or other surface treatment. Today’s good quality, high carbon steels are vastly better and cheaper than the historic, but obsolete, Damascus process.

    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don’t think rust is an issue in blunt objects.

    Ultimately, steel did displace bronze and brass. However, they did overlap for quite some time. There are a number of theories about the replacement cycle:

    • The softer materials can be worked at lower temperatures, thus requiring less fuel.

    • Craft skills were trained in families, so if your father was a bronze/brass worker that is what you learned. Also, the 1st son would inherit the tools for working brass/bronze when the inevitable happened.

    • A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft… Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick. If your bronze pointy mace becomes somewhat spherical while beating on armored foes. You still have a weapon, not a stick.

    • Both you and Barbarossa have mentioned the higher density, force concentration. I concur. Bronze weapons with a pick or beak delivered devastating damage.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @A123

    Wow, an A123 post that is actually reliable and informative.

    The world is upside down.

    , @songbird
    @A123


    A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft… Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick.
     
    Next time they salt the roads, I'll be thinking about the head of my mace breaking off in someone's helmet in battle, rather than my muffler potentially falling off.

    Speaking of different alloys, I wonder how practical it would be to forge a mace that gave off gamma rays. Would it be an effective weapon to wield the against the Greens, or would half-life mean that it was extra-brittle?
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Long before that sword breaks on some Carthaginian armor the National Guard is going to show up in helicopter machine gun formation and spray everybody so it will suffice for any practical purpose. Did you see that British lady a couple years ago who shot her home invader with a crossbow?

  85. @LondonBob
    @Yahya

    Germany have been poor for a while, aside from the keeper no really world class players, surprising how many weak teams there are. Spain, France, England and Brazil the strongest.

    Japan are fun to watch, thought they blew it with the loss to Costa Rica, hope they keep going.

    One of my pet hates is how the information wars have politicised tournaments, been a good one so far, despite the usual media kvetching.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    The only thing more surprising about Germany’s recent decline is that of Italy. Even though they won the Euro recently – failing to even qualify twice for the WC is a blight. I’m wondering if it’s because of the drop in population and I creae in age of society – there is just a smaller pool of talent…

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @showmethereal

    Yeah, the available pool is shrinking, both in absolute numbers and in talent-rich environments. One issue are small families. Genetically we need to go deep to have enough variety, with 1-2 kids that happens less. With multiple kids from the same parents the genetic variety is richer.

    With any animal species a boring progression of 1-2 offsprings, often after artificial pair-ups like in a Zoo, they will soon be at the edge of extinction. European societies have been like that for 1-2 generations, not enough variety is a downward spiral. There are also social negatives of not having siblings around - it may even suppress football talent.

    But my bet is still on Croatia :)...it is probably hopeless, but they have unique flair when they play well, this is their last chance.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  86. @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Attempts to make “Damascus” steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.
     
    My understanding is that historic Damascus steel was better than its contemporary alternatives because they:

    • Imported low carbon iron from as far a way as India
    • Had the skill & tools to crucible at much higher temperature

    The higher temperature allowed more impurities to be removed. The watery finish is a byproduct of the maximum temperature and time to reach it. Perhaps the appearance was useful as pre-marketing branding. However, the craftsman of the time were actually trying to minimize this result.

    Most of the eBay "Damascus" items are likely pattern weld, hydro coated, or other surface treatment. Today's good quality, high carbon steels are vastly better and cheaper than the historic, but obsolete, Damascus process.


    @songbird

    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don’t think rust is an issue in blunt objects.
     

    Ultimately, steel did displace bronze and brass. However, they did overlap for quite some time. There are a number of theories about the replacement cycle:

    • The softer materials can be worked at lower temperatures, thus requiring less fuel.

    • Craft skills were trained in families, so if your father was a bronze/brass worker that is what you learned. Also, the 1st son would inherit the tools for working brass/bronze when the inevitable happened.

    • A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft... Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick. If your bronze pointy mace becomes somewhat spherical while beating on armored foes. You still have a weapon, not a stick.

    • Both you and Barbarossa have mentioned the higher density, force concentration. I concur. Bronze weapons with a pick or beak delivered devastating damage.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Wow, an A123 post that is actually reliable and informative.

    The world is upside down.

  87. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    A brass hammer packs an incredible punch compared to a steel hammer, so the increased density+smaller cross section would have increased the deadliness quite a bit.

    I've never bought fancy Jap kitchen knives. I'm sure they are top notch, like most good Japanese blades. I don't buy Japanese woodworking tools either for the most part. They are great quality but they are too fussy to care for. One guy in the shop goes for Japanese hand tools and complains that if he chips his chisel badly it takes him an hour to sharpen it out. On my 100 year old US chisels I can put a fresh edge back on in 5 or 10 minutes. As long as he fusses with his chisel on his his own time I don't care, but I don't have hours in the day to baby fussy tools!

    For kitchen knives I keep an eye out at yard sales and pick up every old carbon steel kitchen knife I can find. They take a good edge and can be had for a buck or two. People don't like them since they aren't shiny like junk stainless steel.

    Replies: @songbird

    I’ve never bought fancy Jap kitchen knives. I’m sure they are top notch

    Don’t know anything about the current brands that I’ve heard people allude to (and can’t recall the exact names), but I get kind of suspicious because I remember the fake Japanese kitchen knife brand called “Ginsu.” They were still a thing in the ’90s. Don’t remember it, but apparently the brand of choice for Lorena Bobbitt.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginsu

    I’m wondering again about men and kitchen knives. Wish we had an anthropologist on here, but I’m thinking it may have been the men who always did the carving. All I recall is that women and children were usually given the junk parts or leftovers in many societies.

  88. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling. Certain people just want everyone historical to be aksually gay, I can't imagine why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lead_Codices

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @Mikel

    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling.

    The problem of suddenly feeling bored and starting an online quarrel is that it can easily go overboard with your opponent attacking the wrong targets and making a general stink for everyone. Apologies for that.

    Besides, I must confess that Sher is right. His dismissive comment against mercantile societies really made my blood boil. Though the real reason for my blasphemy was pure envy for his waist long dreadlocks and beautiful beard and mustache. Women must find them so irresistible.

    • LOL: Yahya, Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Mikel


    ਯਾਂਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਸੁਨੀਅਹਿ । ਆਯੁਧ ਧਰਿਬੇ ਉਤੱਮ ਗੁਨੀਅਹਿ ।
    The Guru then said to his Sikhs, "All of the Khalsa listen [to this directive], carrying weapons is the highest action.

    ਜਬਿ ਹਮਰੇ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕੋ ਆਵਹੁ । ਬਨਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਤਨ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਜਾਵਹੁ ।।੭।।
    When you come to have my Darshan, adorn your body with weapons.

    ਕਮਰ ਕਸਾ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਦਿਖਾਈ । ਹਮਰੀ ਖੁਸ਼ੀ ਹੋਇ ਅਧਿਕਾਈ ।
    When showing yourself to me have your Kamar Kasa [waist band which holds weapons] tied, in such a way I shall be extremely happy.

    ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਿਨ ਪਾਉ ਲਖਹੁ ਨਰ । ਕੇਸ ਧਰੇ ਤਬਿ ਆਧੋ ਲਖਿ ਉਰ ।।੮।।
    Those men who do not have Kesh [unshorn hair] or Shastars [weapons], do not recognize those men as full men. Those who have Kesh [unshorn hair], recognize those as half-men.

    ਕੇਸ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਜਬਿ ਦੋਨਹੁਂ ਧਾਰੇ । ਤਬਿ ਨਰੁ ਰੂਪ ਹੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਾਰੇ ।
    Those who have adorned themselves with Kesh [unshorn hair] and Shastar [weapons], those men have attained their full form."
     
    All the Dharmic faiths & Zoroastrians ultimately come from Panjab.

    The basque are slaves, No Aryan cuts his hair - look at the Gods.
    Would killing your son in front of you get the message across?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    Replies: @Mikel

  89. @showmethereal
    @LondonBob

    The only thing more surprising about Germany’s recent decline is that of Italy. Even though they won the Euro recently - failing to even qualify twice for the WC is a blight. I’m wondering if it’s because of the drop in population and I creae in age of society - there is just a smaller pool of talent…

    Replies: @Beckow

    Yeah, the available pool is shrinking, both in absolute numbers and in talent-rich environments. One issue are small families. Genetically we need to go deep to have enough variety, with 1-2 kids that happens less. With multiple kids from the same parents the genetic variety is richer.

    With any animal species a boring progression of 1-2 offsprings, often after artificial pair-ups like in a Zoo, they will soon be at the edge of extinction. European societies have been like that for 1-2 generations, not enough variety is a downward spiral. There are also social negatives of not having siblings around – it may even suppress football talent.

    But my bet is still on Croatia :)…it is probably hopeless, but they have unique flair when they play well, this is their last chance.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Beckow

    Mostly agreed - but I don't understand what you mean by "in talent-rich environments".... Do you mean in Italy that youth football is not as well funded?

    And yes what you say socially about small families is true all around. East Asia is just like Europe in that regard now (South Korea and Japan have the lowest birth rates in the world). South East Asia is headed that way (Singapore is second after South Korea in birth rate). Even South America birth rates are falling. Yes children who don't grow up with siblings has a lot of implications. Grandparents with few grand children is bad socially as well.

  90. @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Attempts to make “Damascus” steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.
     
    My understanding is that historic Damascus steel was better than its contemporary alternatives because they:

    • Imported low carbon iron from as far a way as India
    • Had the skill & tools to crucible at much higher temperature

    The higher temperature allowed more impurities to be removed. The watery finish is a byproduct of the maximum temperature and time to reach it. Perhaps the appearance was useful as pre-marketing branding. However, the craftsman of the time were actually trying to minimize this result.

    Most of the eBay "Damascus" items are likely pattern weld, hydro coated, or other surface treatment. Today's good quality, high carbon steels are vastly better and cheaper than the historic, but obsolete, Damascus process.


    @songbird

    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don’t think rust is an issue in blunt objects.
     

    Ultimately, steel did displace bronze and brass. However, they did overlap for quite some time. There are a number of theories about the replacement cycle:

    • The softer materials can be worked at lower temperatures, thus requiring less fuel.

    • Craft skills were trained in families, so if your father was a bronze/brass worker that is what you learned. Also, the 1st son would inherit the tools for working brass/bronze when the inevitable happened.

    • A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft... Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick. If your bronze pointy mace becomes somewhat spherical while beating on armored foes. You still have a weapon, not a stick.

    • Both you and Barbarossa have mentioned the higher density, force concentration. I concur. Bronze weapons with a pick or beak delivered devastating damage.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft… Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick.

    Next time they salt the roads, I’ll be thinking about the head of my mace breaking off in someone’s helmet in battle, rather than my muffler potentially falling off.

    Speaking of different alloys, I wonder how practical it would be to forge a mace that gave off gamma rays. Would it be an effective weapon to wield the against the Greens, or would half-life mean that it was extra-brittle?

  91. @German_reader
    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide (AfD and LINKE abstained):
    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundestag-verurteilt-holodomor-als-voelkermord-a-3e37be56-6dbb-4cbd-93a1-f9b2b8b0c81f

    Mental, making this kind of fake history an official dogma in the politics of remembrance won't lead to anything positive. They've taken leave of all good sense.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack, @songbird, @AnonfromTN

    They’ve taken leave of all good sense.

    That isn’t new. German “leaders” have taken leave of common sense way back in 2014. I’d say Western politicians have lost their minds, if I were sure they had something to lose.

  92. @German_reader
    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide (AfD and LINKE abstained):
    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundestag-verurteilt-holodomor-als-voelkermord-a-3e37be56-6dbb-4cbd-93a1-f9b2b8b0c81f

    Mental, making this kind of fake history an official dogma in the politics of remembrance won't lead to anything positive. They've taken leave of all good sense.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack, @songbird, @AnonfromTN

    Why the misplaced pathos and weird histrionics? Raphael Lemkin, an expert in the field and actually the one who first coined the word “genocide” came to the conclusion that the holodomor was indeed a “classic” example of genocide:

    As long as Ukraine retains its national unity, as long as its people continue to think of themselves as Ukrainians and to seek independence, so long Ukraine poses a serious threat to the very heart of Sovietism. It is no wonder that the Communist leaders have attached the greatest importance to the Russification of this independent[-minded] member of their “Union of Republics [Sound familiar? Harken back to Putler’s paper that he produced right before he decided to invade Ukraine] they have determined to remake it to fit their pattern of one Russian nation. For the Ukrainian is not and has never been, a Russian. His culture, his temperament, his language, his religion – all are different.

    “What I want to speak about is perhaps the classic example of Soviet genocide, its longest and broadest experiment in Russification – the destruction of the Ukrainian nation. […]…Ukraine is highly susceptible to racial murder by select parts and so the Communist tactics there have not followed the pattern taken by the German attacks against the Jews. The nation is too populous to be exterminated completely with any efficiency. However, its leadership, religious, intellectual, political, its select and determining parts, are quite small and therefore easily eliminated, and so it is upon these groups particularly that the full force of the Soviet axe has fallen, with its familiar tools of mass murder, deportation and forced labor, exile and starvation…Ukraine is highly susceptible to racial murder by select parts and so the Communist tactics there have not followed the pattern taken by the German attacks against the Jews. The nation is too populous to be exterminated completely with any efficiency. However, its leadership, religious, intellectual, political, its select and determining parts, are quite small and therefore easily eliminated, and so it is upon these groups particularly that the full force of the Soviet axe has fallen, with its familiar tools of mass murder, deportation and forced labor, exile and starvation.

    […] This is not simply a case of mass murder. It is a case of genocide, of destruction, not of individuals only, but of a culture and a nation. […] Soviet national unity is being created, not by any union of ideas and of cultures, but by the complete destruction of all cultures and of all ideas save one – the Soviet.

    There’s more to Lemkin’s indictment, including how the soviets systematically uprooted the farmer/peasant class too. There’s too much to quote here, so read his whole excerpted denouncement here: http://www.holodomorsurvivors.ca/About%20Raphae%20Lemkin.html

    I think that Germany has made the correct choice here, joning many other countries that have made such a choice earlier on.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    I think that Germany has made the correct choice here, joning many other countries that have made such a choice earlier on.
     
    Nah, they haven't. Even if you think it was a genocide (and that raises the question "what is a genocide?", iirc Lemkin's original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups), a parliament has no business making such declarations. There's even a legal aspect, since recently laws in Germany were made even more restrictive than they already were regarding denial of war crimes and genocides. It was already dubious enough when it was applied to just the Holocaust, but that could be seen as a special case in Germany. If they're now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they're more liberal in this regard than Russia's politics of history.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  93. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader

    Why the misplaced pathos and weird histrionics? Raphael Lemkin, an expert in the field and actually the one who first coined the word "genocide" came to the conclusion that the holodomor was indeed a "classic" example of genocide:


    As long as Ukraine retains its national unity, as long as its people continue to think of themselves as Ukrainians and to seek independence, so long Ukraine poses a serious threat to the very heart of Sovietism. It is no wonder that the Communist leaders have attached the greatest importance to the Russification of this independent[-minded] member of their “Union of Republics [Sound familiar? Harken back to Putler's paper that he produced right before he decided to invade Ukraine] they have determined to remake it to fit their pattern of one Russian nation. For the Ukrainian is not and has never been, a Russian. His culture, his temperament, his language, his religion – all are different.


    "What I want to speak about is perhaps the classic example of Soviet genocide, its longest and broadest experiment in Russification – the destruction of the Ukrainian nation. […]...Ukraine is highly susceptible to racial murder by select parts and so the Communist tactics there have not followed the pattern taken by the German attacks against the Jews. The nation is too populous to be exterminated completely with any efficiency. However, its leadership, religious, intellectual, political, its select and determining parts, are quite small and therefore easily eliminated, and so it is upon these groups particularly that the full force of the Soviet axe has fallen, with its familiar tools of mass murder, deportation and forced labor, exile and starvation...Ukraine is highly susceptible to racial murder by select parts and so the Communist tactics there have not followed the pattern taken by the German attacks against the Jews. The nation is too populous to be exterminated completely with any efficiency. However, its leadership, religious, intellectual, political, its select and determining parts, are quite small and therefore easily eliminated, and so it is upon these groups particularly that the full force of the Soviet axe has fallen, with its familiar tools of mass murder, deportation and forced labor, exile and starvation.

    […] This is not simply a case of mass murder. It is a case of genocide, of destruction, not of individuals only, but of a culture and a nation. […] Soviet national unity is being created, not by any union of ideas and of cultures, but by the complete destruction of all cultures and of all ideas save one – the Soviet.

     

    There's more to Lemkin's indictment, including how the soviets systematically uprooted the farmer/peasant class too. There's too much to quote here, so read his whole excerpted denouncement here: http://www.holodomorsurvivors.ca/About%20Raphae%20Lemkin.html

    I think that Germany has made the correct choice here, joning many other countries that have made such a choice earlier on.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I think that Germany has made the correct choice here, joning many other countries that have made such a choice earlier on.

    Nah, they haven’t. Even if you think it was a genocide (and that raises the question “what is a genocide?”, iirc Lemkin’s original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups), a parliament has no business making such declarations. There’s even a legal aspect, since recently laws in Germany were made even more restrictive than they already were regarding denial of war crimes and genocides. It was already dubious enough when it was applied to just the Holocaust, but that could be seen as a special case in Germany. If they’re now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they’re more liberal in this regard than Russia’s politics of history.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Lemkin’s original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups),
     
    Indeed. And when you put together all of the social, religious and socio-economic groups together, there can really be no other conclusion to make then that a real genocide had taken place.

    a parliament has no business making such declarations.
     
    Why not? Doesn't a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?

    If they’re now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they’re more liberal in this regard than Russia’s politics of history.
     
    More liberal, or just more accurate in using historical information to come to important conclusions that bear heavily on how we are to govern and act so that similar tragedies don't take place in the future. More of such inquiry is needed not less, as you seem to be advocating. The German parliament made the correct choice.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

  94. @German_reader
    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide (AfD and LINKE abstained):
    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundestag-verurteilt-holodomor-als-voelkermord-a-3e37be56-6dbb-4cbd-93a1-f9b2b8b0c81f

    Mental, making this kind of fake history an official dogma in the politics of remembrance won't lead to anything positive. They've taken leave of all good sense.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack, @songbird, @AnonfromTN

    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.

    [MORE]

    Personally, I don’t really see anything positive in promoting the idea that the potato famine in Ireland was a genocide. People promoting the idea never seem to talk about migration into Ireland. I prefer the Plantation 2.0 rhetoric, which seems more squarely directed at hostile foreigners and the corrupt regime. It even has the good point of making the modern regime seem more evil, by one measure, as they don’t seem to plan on setting aside any land for the natives.

    Here is Justin Barrett, lead figure of the National Party: (admittedly a fringe party, with no elected pols).
    Money quote starts @ 4:50

    With the Armenians, the Turks are arguably more of an outgroup, and they certainly seem to be a negative political force in Europe, promoting migration and diversity. (Perhaps this is true of Armenians as well, but their numbers are smaller.) Though, OTOH, it seems to be true that Turkey is increasingly on the receiving end of migration, with it seemingly being facilitated by some level of domestic poz.

    Ukraine is interesting because it seems to have the greatest potential to upset WW2 as a sort of suicidal religion for Euros. Though, what I find disquieting is the tendency of certain EEs to conflate Soviet and Russian crimes. And this seems to have the potential to add to the weird racialism of progressives regarding Russians.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.
     
    They're probably just going to reinforce it, the only difference will be that the Soviets (meaning Russians collectively) are also cast as villains, the Tim Snyder view of history. I've also noticed that the claims about German depravity seem to be getting more outlandish with increasing distance of time, there are now African and Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like "the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths", which just seems like a bizarrely inflated number, even if you count the entire Pacific war. The subtext is of course clear enough, there will be no absolution ever, and that history will be used by recent immigrants (without personal connection to WW2) as a weapon against ethnic Germans.
    Ireland's recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland's history.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya, @Barbarossa, @Matra

  95. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    I think that Germany has made the correct choice here, joning many other countries that have made such a choice earlier on.
     
    Nah, they haven't. Even if you think it was a genocide (and that raises the question "what is a genocide?", iirc Lemkin's original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups), a parliament has no business making such declarations. There's even a legal aspect, since recently laws in Germany were made even more restrictive than they already were regarding denial of war crimes and genocides. It was already dubious enough when it was applied to just the Holocaust, but that could be seen as a special case in Germany. If they're now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they're more liberal in this regard than Russia's politics of history.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Lemkin’s original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups),

    Indeed. And when you put together all of the social, religious and socio-economic groups together, there can really be no other conclusion to make then that a real genocide had taken place.

    a parliament has no business making such declarations.

    Why not? Doesn’t a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?

    If they’re now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they’re more liberal in this regard than Russia’s politics of history.

    More liberal, or just more accurate in using historical information to come to important conclusions that bear heavily on how we are to govern and act so that similar tragedies don’t take place in the future. More of such inquiry is needed not less, as you seem to be advocating. The German parliament made the correct choice.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    More of such inquiry is needed not less
     
    By historians, without the threat of legal action hanging over their heads, not by politicians (most of them fairly stupid) who are just following the whim of the moment. imo these politics of history are a really pernicious trend.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    Doesn’t a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?
     
    Consensus is when everyone agrees.

    At best, I think parliamentary decisions represent the narrow majority of a narrow majority. Take 51%, and then all you need is 26% to control that - and perhaps you could reduce it again to 14%. But realistically probably often much less than that, as parties receive marching orders from special interests.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  96. @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Lemkin’s original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups),
     
    Indeed. And when you put together all of the social, religious and socio-economic groups together, there can really be no other conclusion to make then that a real genocide had taken place.

    a parliament has no business making such declarations.
     
    Why not? Doesn't a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?

    If they’re now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they’re more liberal in this regard than Russia’s politics of history.
     
    More liberal, or just more accurate in using historical information to come to important conclusions that bear heavily on how we are to govern and act so that similar tragedies don't take place in the future. More of such inquiry is needed not less, as you seem to be advocating. The German parliament made the correct choice.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    More of such inquiry is needed not less

    By historians, without the threat of legal action hanging over their heads, not by politicians (most of them fairly stupid) who are just following the whim of the moment. imo these politics of history are a really pernicious trend.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    More of such inquiry is needed not less

    By historians, without the threat of legal action hanging over their heads, not by politicians (most of them fairly stupid) who are just following the whim of the moment. imo these politics of history are a really pernicious trend.
     
    Agree. Though, I wasn't aware of any politicians writing papers or books on this topic?...
  97. @German_reader
    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide (AfD and LINKE abstained):
    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundestag-verurteilt-holodomor-als-voelkermord-a-3e37be56-6dbb-4cbd-93a1-f9b2b8b0c81f

    Mental, making this kind of fake history an official dogma in the politics of remembrance won't lead to anything positive. They've taken leave of all good sense.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack, @songbird, @AnonfromTN

    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide

    I agree that is was stupid, but it wasn’t the first and won’t be the last stupid thing German politicians did. I saw the demo in Leipzig against the support of Ukraine (naturally, on one of the African news channels, as European news channels do not report politically incorrect news). The demo was after sunset. I was in Leipzig many times before, and remember it well. Total lack of street illumination struck me most. The only source of light were flashers of police cars. That’s direct result of the policies of German elites.

    There is Russian saying that you don’t bemoan the loss of your hair when your head is cut off.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    Total lack of street illumination struck me most.
     
    At my place of work they now have signs on the inside of the doors to restrooms reminding people "Save energy, switch off the light when leaving", lol.
    Your schadenfreude about this isn't all that nice a character trait though.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  98. @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Lemkin’s original definition was more extensive than what eventually prevailed and included extermination of political and social groups),
     
    Indeed. And when you put together all of the social, religious and socio-economic groups together, there can really be no other conclusion to make then that a real genocide had taken place.

    a parliament has no business making such declarations.
     
    Why not? Doesn't a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?

    If they’re now going to apply similar standards to such politicised issues like the Holodomor, that will have a truly perverse effect on historical research, and they can hardly claim that they’re more liberal in this regard than Russia’s politics of history.
     
    More liberal, or just more accurate in using historical information to come to important conclusions that bear heavily on how we are to govern and act so that similar tragedies don't take place in the future. More of such inquiry is needed not less, as you seem to be advocating. The German parliament made the correct choice.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Doesn’t a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?

    Consensus is when everyone agrees.

    At best, I think parliamentary decisions represent the narrow majority of a narrow majority. Take 51%, and then all you need is 26% to control that – and perhaps you could reduce it again to 14%. But realistically probably often much less than that, as parties receive marching orders from special interests.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    The most common definition for consensus was percent agreement (25 studies), with 75% being the median threshold to define consensus
     
    I wasn't able to locate any raw numbers on the vote, but did read that the far right and far left abstained from taking part in the vote. So it's quite likely that at least 75% of those that voted went along with classifying the holodomor as a genocide. Those parties that didn't take part in the vote did their supporters a disservice, as there was close to one week before the vote when the measure was first proposed and the day when the vote took place.

    I don't recall you being so pharasaic when the Russian parliament recently voted for the inclusion of Ukrainian territories into the RusFed? Nothing amiss with that vote??....

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

  99. @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Officials like to get home early whether they do it themselves or through hired help. Remember that Antifa activities (broadly defined) are always supervised.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    The Poland scum “football” team reached new low depths against Argentina. Easily the footballing equivalent of a war crime – they were that bad, cowardly and useless but still cheated getting through to next stage.

    Switzerland are similarly negative and boring, just not anywhere near the same level of negative and boring. I am praying for Serbia to defeat the organ-harvesters (kosovan connection)-Africans-Turks that make up the Switzerland team

    • LOL: German_reader
  100. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    German Bundestag has classified Holodomor as genocide
     
    I agree that is was stupid, but it wasn’t the first and won’t be the last stupid thing German politicians did. I saw the demo in Leipzig against the support of Ukraine (naturally, on one of the African news channels, as European news channels do not report politically incorrect news). The demo was after sunset. I was in Leipzig many times before, and remember it well. Total lack of street illumination struck me most. The only source of light were flashers of police cars. That’s direct result of the policies of German elites.

    There is Russian saying that you don’t bemoan the loss of your hair when your head is cut off.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Total lack of street illumination struck me most.

    At my place of work they now have signs on the inside of the doors to restrooms reminding people “Save energy, switch off the light when leaving”, lol.
    Your schadenfreude about this isn’t all that nice a character trait though.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    Your schadenfreude about this isn’t all that nice a character trait though.
     
    Tell you the truth, I don’t feel schadenfreude towards Europe any more. I feel pity. Europe was a nice place to go for a vacation, but now I won’t go there again. The world is big, I switched to Asia, Latin America, and Africa, where the governments and the people are sane.

    I feel an even keener pity towards Leipzig. I collaborated with several labs there, and right now collaborate with two. The people I work with do not deserve what your politicians are doing to them. The empire lured Europe into a trap, and Europeans docilely walked into it, like retarded children. You don’t feel schadenfreude towards retards, only pity.
  101. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader

    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.

    Personally, I don't really see anything positive in promoting the idea that the potato famine in Ireland was a genocide. People promoting the idea never seem to talk about migration into Ireland. I prefer the Plantation 2.0 rhetoric, which seems more squarely directed at hostile foreigners and the corrupt regime. It even has the good point of making the modern regime seem more evil, by one measure, as they don't seem to plan on setting aside any land for the natives.

    Here is Justin Barrett, lead figure of the National Party: (admittedly a fringe party, with no elected pols).
    Money quote starts @ 4:50
    https://youtu.be/PiizgO-M4hM

    With the Armenians, the Turks are arguably more of an outgroup, and they certainly seem to be a negative political force in Europe, promoting migration and diversity. (Perhaps this is true of Armenians as well, but their numbers are smaller.) Though, OTOH, it seems to be true that Turkey is increasingly on the receiving end of migration, with it seemingly being facilitated by some level of domestic poz.

    Ukraine is interesting because it seems to have the greatest potential to upset WW2 as a sort of suicidal religion for Euros. Though, what I find disquieting is the tendency of certain EEs to conflate Soviet and Russian crimes. And this seems to have the potential to add to the weird racialism of progressives regarding Russians.

    Replies: @German_reader

    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.

    They’re probably just going to reinforce it, the only difference will be that the Soviets (meaning Russians collectively) are also cast as villains, the Tim Snyder view of history. I’ve also noticed that the claims about German depravity seem to be getting more outlandish with increasing distance of time, there are now African and Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”, which just seems like a bizarrely inflated number, even if you count the entire Pacific war. The subtext is of course clear enough, there will be no absolution ever, and that history will be used by recent immigrants (without personal connection to WW2) as a weapon against ethnic Germans.
    Ireland’s recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    They’re probably just going to reinforce it
     
    This is quite possible. In a loose way, I would say that it has already happened with blacks in America and the UK. Of course, some of that insanity goes back quite a ways. But it seems like there has been some level of black memorialism, following Holocaust memorialism, as well as concerted attempts at narrative capture, following the previous narrative capture.

    I think Boston is actually a good example of this. It originally had something called the Freedom Trail about the Revolutionary War, that schoolkids were sent to. Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.

    The height of this is no doubt that Slavery Museum, which seems conceived by Blacula. They store jars of dirt there from every lynching of a black, whether he was a murderer and/or rapist (as many were). And the museum has baby memorials that it has given birth to, and which it holds, for placing on the site of all these lynchings.

    https://nieman.harvard.edu/stories/building-a-museum-with-jars-of-dirt-and-building-stories-from-the-ground-up/

    Ireland’s recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.
     
    Progressives everywhere in the West seem to have the same susceptibilities, and it is really disturbing to consider that there might not be any possibility of an immunization to the disease, based on national history or culture, but that it might be a combination of biology and environment, with little prospects of changing either.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Coconuts

    , @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”,
     
    If Arab-German MPs are speaking that way regarding Nazi Germany, they have learnt to ape the Western liberals from whom they take their queues. It’s a sign of assimilation to their host society, if perhaps in a way you disapprove of. Very few in the Arab world speak that way, you’re probably more likely to hear positive references to the anti-Semitic regime if anything.

    On a somewhat related note, a few months ago I was talking to an acquaintance whose parents got her an internship with this Egyptian member of the Bundestag: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Radwan

    I remember laughing inside at the thought of this Egyptian girl, who lived all her life in Egypt and was culturally socialized as an Arab, serving a professional function in the German parliament (though she held German citizenship through her [ethnic] German father and had some Germanic facial features). She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections, her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections; though she was fairly interesting and sociable, which is no doubt helpful in politics.

    Also I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across. Some website mentioned nearly 11% of German MPs were of immigrant background (either 1st or 2nd gen), though that was less than the 24% figure for Germany at large. I thought Arabs and Turks in Germany were a fairly apolitical and disorganized bunch. I saw comparatively fewer African and Asian names or faces when I was going through the list.

    Also saw this headline:

    All of Germany's Muslim MPs voted in favour of same-sex marriage

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-green-party-cem-ozdemir-ekin-deligoz-ozcan-mutlu-omid-nouripour-cemile-giousouf-a7819391.html
     
    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mikel, @Sher Singh, @Coconuts

    , @Barbarossa
    @German_reader


    pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.
     
    Ireland's history has nothing to do with it, which is rather the point. When people buy global multi-cult capitalism they have no history anymore. It's truly a break in the continuity and history is utterly irrelevant.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Dmitry

    , @Matra
    @German_reader

    The Irish Republican narrative that was developed during the 60s and 70s is based on anti-colonialism. They took the parts of the 1916 Rising that they liked but jettisoned the Catholicism and exclusive nationalism of the fallen. The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association, which protested supposed discrimination against Catholics eventually leading to the Troubles, was based on the black civil rights protests in the US. They even sang the same song, We Shall Overcome. IRA activist Bernadette Devlin preferred hanging round the leaders of the Black Panthers than Irish Americans during her fundraising trips. (Supposedly she gave the BPs some of the money raised for the IRA). No country was more hostile to Apartheid South Africa than Ireland and today they are probably the most hostile to Israel for anti-colonialist reasons. No Spanish football team can visit Ireland or Glasgow - big Irish community - without being greeted with Catalan and Basque independence flags as Sinn Fein claims Spain is a colonialist state. In 1990 on my first ever trip to the Republican stronghold the Falls Road in West Belfast I saw a huge wall mural dedicated to Nelson Mandela. Today there must be more George Floyd murals in Catholic parts of N Ireland than anywhere else in the world. It's not an exaggeration to say that Irish Republicans identify more with anti-colonial and anti-racist struggles around the world than with Europeans, hence that scene in The Commitments where the fan of black American music says the Irish are the blacks of Europe. This is a serious problem for genuine Irish nationalists who are protesting against migrants, mostly black Africans, as it means not only going up against the usual leftists but also the country's own nationalist narrative and self-image.

    BTW try getting a reasonably priced hotel room in Dublin these days as I've been trying to do this week. Over 30% of all rooms available in the Republic are occupied by migrants. The place I stayed in in 2019 is now over three times the price I paid then and it's fully booked for months in advance. Most of these migrants are men.

  102. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    Total lack of street illumination struck me most.
     
    At my place of work they now have signs on the inside of the doors to restrooms reminding people "Save energy, switch off the light when leaving", lol.
    Your schadenfreude about this isn't all that nice a character trait though.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Your schadenfreude about this isn’t all that nice a character trait though.

    Tell you the truth, I don’t feel schadenfreude towards Europe any more. I feel pity. Europe was a nice place to go for a vacation, but now I won’t go there again. The world is big, I switched to Asia, Latin America, and Africa, where the governments and the people are sane.

    I feel an even keener pity towards Leipzig. I collaborated with several labs there, and right now collaborate with two. The people I work with do not deserve what your politicians are doing to them. The empire lured Europe into a trap, and Europeans docilely walked into it, like retarded children. You don’t feel schadenfreude towards retards, only pity.

  103. German_reader says:

    The empire lured Europe into a trap, and Europeans docilely walked into it, like retarded children.

    I’m not sure to what extent there was a plan, but it’s certainly an interpretation that has a high likelihood of at least being partially true.
    Anyway, here’s something to increase your sense of pity for German retards:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/nord-stream-2-germany-bears-responsibility-for-ukraine-war-minister/
    So blowing up the Nordstream pipelines was presumably the right thing to do according to our minister of justice, haha…
    I can only assume that Scholz’s government already knows exactly who did it and that this is part of a preemptive attempt at narrative management.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I can only assume that Scholz’s government already knows exactly who did it and that this is part of a preemptive attempt at narrative management.
     
    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.

    However, I am not sure that an average IQ in Scholz government is greater than their shoe size (if we mean European, not American, sizes). As far as his “foreign minister” Baerbock is concerned, I am sure that her IQ is way lower, somewhere at the level of her boob size.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

  104. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    Doesn’t a parliament represent all of the different voices within a country and reflect the consensus opinion of important topics?
     
    Consensus is when everyone agrees.

    At best, I think parliamentary decisions represent the narrow majority of a narrow majority. Take 51%, and then all you need is 26% to control that - and perhaps you could reduce it again to 14%. But realistically probably often much less than that, as parties receive marching orders from special interests.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The most common definition for consensus was percent agreement (25 studies), with 75% being the median threshold to define consensus

    I wasn’t able to locate any raw numbers on the vote, but did read that the far right and far left abstained from taking part in the vote. So it’s quite likely that at least 75% of those that voted went along with classifying the holodomor as a genocide. Those parties that didn’t take part in the vote did their supporters a disservice, as there was close to one week before the vote when the measure was first proposed and the day when the vote took place.

    I don’t recall you being so pharasaic when the Russian parliament recently voted for the inclusion of Ukrainian territories into the RusFed? Nothing amiss with that vote??….

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    I don’t recall you being so pharasaic when the Russian parliament recently voted for the inclusion of Ukrainian territories into the RusFed? Nothing amiss with that vote??
     
    I'm afraid you're misreading the tone of my comment.

    As I have said, I'm not sure how to feel about the promotion of the Holodomor. I see both negative and positive potentialities in it and am not sure which will manifest. I'm not sure if you have ever been to Germany, but I have observed some negative precedent about these types of narratives firsthand, and I think it's pretty fair to say now that the negative effects have a geographic scope extending far beyond Germany at this point. This is also a potentiality of any narrative about Ukraine.

    But I would say that I'm neutral about the result, at this stage. Who knows if it will really amount to anything? I wouldn't say that Ukrainians have the lobbying power of some other groups. At least not yet. Perhaps, that could change with the exodus?

    Though, I would agree with GR that I don't think it is something the Bundestag should have been focusing on. Really, Germany has quite a lot of its own problems, without politicians pretending to be historians or take up some external moral narrative.

    I imagine it is also quite possible that, in this case, the vote was broadly supported by the German public.

    Perhaps, I am being something of an autist, but what I do take issue with is what seems to be your idea that parliamentary votes always represent the general consensus of the populace. I also feel that your definition of consensus is a bit unseemly, like something coined by a political scientist, or group of them.
    , @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    This video clip from your favorite news service is not encouraging:

    https://youtu.be/_Z68txP3XCc

    Leads with "Russian" rather than "Soviet." A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge. Watching this may have changed my mind. Signs of good things coming from this are actually not looking very likely.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  105. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    More of such inquiry is needed not less
     
    By historians, without the threat of legal action hanging over their heads, not by politicians (most of them fairly stupid) who are just following the whim of the moment. imo these politics of history are a really pernicious trend.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    More of such inquiry is needed not less

    By historians, without the threat of legal action hanging over their heads, not by politicians (most of them fairly stupid) who are just following the whim of the moment. imo these politics of history are a really pernicious trend.

    Agree. Though, I wasn’t aware of any politicians writing papers or books on this topic?…

  106. @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Attempts to make “Damascus” steel are usually just inferior anyhow compared to modern steels since it introduces failure points into the steel.
     
    My understanding is that historic Damascus steel was better than its contemporary alternatives because they:

    • Imported low carbon iron from as far a way as India
    • Had the skill & tools to crucible at much higher temperature

    The higher temperature allowed more impurities to be removed. The watery finish is a byproduct of the maximum temperature and time to reach it. Perhaps the appearance was useful as pre-marketing branding. However, the craftsman of the time were actually trying to minimize this result.

    Most of the eBay "Damascus" items are likely pattern weld, hydro coated, or other surface treatment. Today's good quality, high carbon steels are vastly better and cheaper than the historic, but obsolete, Damascus process.


    @songbird

    Wrought iron is somewhat rust resistant. (were maces wrought?) But is less dense than bronze. Perhaps, this may have placed an advantage in bronze maces? I don’t think rust is an issue in blunt objects.
     

    Ultimately, steel did displace bronze and brass. However, they did overlap for quite some time. There are a number of theories about the replacement cycle:

    • The softer materials can be worked at lower temperatures, thus requiring less fuel.

    • Craft skills were trained in families, so if your father was a bronze/brass worker that is what you learned. Also, the 1st son would inherit the tools for working brass/bronze when the inevitable happened.

    • A rusty, low grade, iron mace head could have issues with cracks & brittleness. If the iron head separates from the haft... Congratulations! You are now wielding a stick. If your bronze pointy mace becomes somewhat spherical while beating on armored foes. You still have a weapon, not a stick.

    • Both you and Barbarossa have mentioned the higher density, force concentration. I concur. Bronze weapons with a pick or beak delivered devastating damage.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Long before that sword breaks on some Carthaginian armor the National Guard is going to show up in helicopter machine gun formation and spray everybody so it will suffice for any practical purpose. Did you see that British lady a couple years ago who shot her home invader with a crossbow?

  107. @German_reader

    The empire lured Europe into a trap, and Europeans docilely walked into it, like retarded children.
     
    I'm not sure to what extent there was a plan, but it's certainly an interpretation that has a high likelihood of at least being partially true.
    Anyway, here's something to increase your sense of pity for German retards:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/nord-stream-2-germany-bears-responsibility-for-ukraine-war-minister/
    So blowing up the Nordstream pipelines was presumably the right thing to do according to our minister of justice, haha...
    I can only assume that Scholz's government already knows exactly who did it and that this is part of a preemptive attempt at narrative management.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    I can only assume that Scholz’s government already knows exactly who did it and that this is part of a preemptive attempt at narrative management.

    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.

    However, I am not sure that an average IQ in Scholz government is greater than their shoe size (if we mean European, not American, sizes). As far as his “foreign minister” Baerbock is concerned, I am sure that her IQ is way lower, somewhere at the level of her boob size.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.
     
    The NS1 / NS2 destruction benefited one nation above all others -- POLAND.

    Thus, everyone with an IQ greater higher room temperature believes that the Poles ordered it without consulting any other nation. It might even be a group of Polish rogue officials or even private citizens. Only the Dimmest of the Dim would misallocate blame to the U.S.

    There is nothing technically complex about the mission, and the size of the ghost ships 100% exonerates the U.S. Navy. It was almost certainly sub-contracted to a commercial mercenary corporation that will be a investigation dead end, assuming they can every be identified.

    POLAND Acted Alone

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN

    Baerbock is 85B, not bad for a short girl. She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day. Her problem - and Scholz's - is that they got themselves way over their heads and it is escalating. Their natural response is to double down to keep some gravitas, but it will be very bad for Germany.

    Merkel should had forced Minsk on Kiev but she wasn't allowed to. What is going on is an inevitable consequence of the decision to get Nato into Ukraine. Germany is a marginal secondary player and it was decided above them. Merkel tried to slow down the march to war - and she did - but all else was preordained. The fault lies primarily with the two moron cults in Washington and London.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  108. @German_reader
    @songbird


    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.
     
    They're probably just going to reinforce it, the only difference will be that the Soviets (meaning Russians collectively) are also cast as villains, the Tim Snyder view of history. I've also noticed that the claims about German depravity seem to be getting more outlandish with increasing distance of time, there are now African and Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like "the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths", which just seems like a bizarrely inflated number, even if you count the entire Pacific war. The subtext is of course clear enough, there will be no absolution ever, and that history will be used by recent immigrants (without personal connection to WW2) as a weapon against ethnic Germans.
    Ireland's recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland's history.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya, @Barbarossa, @Matra

    They’re probably just going to reinforce it

    This is quite possible. In a loose way, I would say that it has already happened with blacks in America and the UK. Of course, some of that insanity goes back quite a ways. But it seems like there has been some level of black memorialism, following Holocaust memorialism

    [MORE]
    , as well as concerted attempts at narrative capture, following the previous narrative capture.

    I think Boston is actually a good example of this. It originally had something called the Freedom Trail about the Revolutionary War, that schoolkids were sent to. Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.

    The height of this is no doubt that Slavery Museum, which seems conceived by Blacula. They store jars of dirt there from every lynching of a black, whether he was a murderer and/or rapist (as many were). And the museum has baby memorials that it has given birth to, and which it holds, for placing on the site of all these lynchings.

    https://nieman.harvard.edu/stories/building-a-museum-with-jars-of-dirt-and-building-stories-from-the-ground-up/

    Ireland’s recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.

    Progressives everywhere in the West seem to have the same susceptibilities, and it is really disturbing to consider that there might not be any possibility of an immunization to the disease, based on national history or culture, but that it might be a combination of biology and environment, with little prospects of changing either.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @songbird


    Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.
     
    However there seems to be such feeling that maybe might be called "competition of victims" which is bubbling quite deeply but strong under the surface - remembered reading a story from from a basketball star Ray Allen, who got a negative reactions from his own social media bubble because of the trip to Aushwitz in 2017:

    When I returned home to America, I got some very disheartening messages directed toward me on social media regarding my trip. Some people didn’t like the fact that I was going to Poland to raise awareness for the issues that happened there and not using that time or energy to support people in the black community.

    I was told my ancestors would be ashamed of me.

    I know there are trolls online and I shouldn’t even pay attention, but that one sort of got to me. Because I understood where they were coming from. I understand that there are plenty of issues in our own country right now, but they were looking at my trip the wrong way.
     

    https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/ray-allen-why-i-went-to-auschwitz

    So I'm getting increasing feeling that currently all this Kanye, Fuentes and Trump dinner thing is absolutely calculated in advance and deliberate election tactics, because the gamble is being done on that victim competition feeling in order to reduce black voting percentage for Dems in the 2024, at the same also encouraging and reattracting those who were dissatisfied with all the de facto extreme MIGA agenda during Trump 2016-2020 tenure.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Progressives everywhere in the West seem to have the same susceptibilities, and it is really disturbing to consider that there might not be any possibility of an immunization to the disease, based on national history or culture, but that it might be a combination of biology and environment, with little prospects of changing either.
     
    It seems to have been predicted a long time ago. In France in the 1900s it was linked with democracy and the principles of 1789, but this often had some biological aspect. Democracy was linked with impotence, feminisation, sterility, depopulation, created to serve the interests of foreigners etc.

    This must be how Evola came up with what would have seemed like eccentric predictions linking democracy with hermaphroditism and negrification in the late 40s and early 50s.

    One powerful take I recently came across advocated an alliance between authoritarian monarchism and revolutionary syndicalism. The proletariat and the monarchy was supposed to unite to destroy the bourgeoisie and its civilisation (liberalism, democracy etc.) The book was made up of essays written in the 1900s and published just before the outbreak of WW1.

    It's looking more like there was some truth in this tradition of thought, but it is pretty powerful and controversial, probably too radical and controversial to be directly useful now. Possibly some of the French progressive theorising after WW2 was directly inspired by and responding to this sort of thing.

  109. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    The most common definition for consensus was percent agreement (25 studies), with 75% being the median threshold to define consensus
     
    I wasn't able to locate any raw numbers on the vote, but did read that the far right and far left abstained from taking part in the vote. So it's quite likely that at least 75% of those that voted went along with classifying the holodomor as a genocide. Those parties that didn't take part in the vote did their supporters a disservice, as there was close to one week before the vote when the measure was first proposed and the day when the vote took place.

    I don't recall you being so pharasaic when the Russian parliament recently voted for the inclusion of Ukrainian territories into the RusFed? Nothing amiss with that vote??....

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    I don’t recall you being so pharasaic when the Russian parliament recently voted for the inclusion of Ukrainian territories into the RusFed? Nothing amiss with that vote??

    I’m afraid you’re misreading the tone of my comment.

    As I have said, I’m not sure how to feel about the promotion of the Holodomor. I see both negative and positive potentialities in it and am not sure which will manifest.

    [MORE]
    I’m not sure if you have ever been to Germany, but I have observed some negative precedent about these types of narratives firsthand, and I think it’s pretty fair to say now that the negative effects have a geographic scope extending far beyond Germany at this point. This is also a potentiality of any narrative about Ukraine.

    But I would say that I’m neutral about the result, at this stage. Who knows if it will really amount to anything? I wouldn’t say that Ukrainians have the lobbying power of some other groups. At least not yet. Perhaps, that could change with the exodus?

    Though, I would agree with GR that I don’t think it is something the Bundestag should have been focusing on. Really, Germany has quite a lot of its own problems, without politicians pretending to be historians or take up some external moral narrative.

    I imagine it is also quite possible that, in this case, the vote was broadly supported by the German public.

    Perhaps, I am being something of an autist, but what I do take issue with is what seems to be your idea that parliamentary votes always represent the general consensus of the populace. I also feel that your definition of consensus is a bit unseemly, like something coined by a political scientist, or group of them.

  110. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    The most common definition for consensus was percent agreement (25 studies), with 75% being the median threshold to define consensus
     
    I wasn't able to locate any raw numbers on the vote, but did read that the far right and far left abstained from taking part in the vote. So it's quite likely that at least 75% of those that voted went along with classifying the holodomor as a genocide. Those parties that didn't take part in the vote did their supporters a disservice, as there was close to one week before the vote when the measure was first proposed and the day when the vote took place.

    I don't recall you being so pharasaic when the Russian parliament recently voted for the inclusion of Ukrainian territories into the RusFed? Nothing amiss with that vote??....

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    This video clip from your favorite news service is not encouraging:

    [MORE]

    Leads with “Russian” rather than “Soviet.” A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge. Watching this may have changed my mind. Signs of good things coming from this are actually not looking very likely.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I'm going to reply to both comments #109 and #110, as they're both related and very much a continuation of the same matter.


    I also feel that your definition of consensus is a bit unseemly, like something coined by a political scientist, or group of them.
     
    The definition was retrieved upon googling in for the definition of "consensus", specifically within a portal answering the question "can "consensus" be quantified. It was somewhat coined probably by some political scientists (and other researchers) and based as a conglomerate term taken from 25 separate studies. It's probably as good as any definition, for this is the kind of thing that political scientists do for a living. Why, do you have a better definition?

    I have observed some negative precedent about these types of narratives firsthand, and I think it’s pretty fair to say now that the negative effects have a geographic scope extending far beyond Germany at this point.
     
    I'd b interested in hearing more about what causes you some sort of fear on your part (at least some sort of anxiety) and how the German experience might negatively effect the Ukrainian one?

    Really, Germany has quite a lot of its own problems, without politicians pretending to be historians or take up some external moral narrative.
     
    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic (you do agree that it's an important topic?) has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics, I'll remain unsympathetic to your call for expediency. Also, you'll have to admit that Germany and Ukraine, though not sharing borders, do indeed cohabit the same European space and therefore what is being done there is quite normal and should have been addressed much sooner. Better late than never.

    Leads with “Russian” rather than “Soviet.” A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge.
     

    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you've included. It's the interpretation and underlying of the message expressed within that I find to be accurate and historical that should be weighed as to its relative value. As for the Green party's input, I would consider this a case where a "most evil group" does a good thing, whereas not supporting the new German measures may very well be a case where "good people" for whatever reason do a bad thing.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

  111. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I can only assume that Scholz’s government already knows exactly who did it and that this is part of a preemptive attempt at narrative management.
     
    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.

    However, I am not sure that an average IQ in Scholz government is greater than their shoe size (if we mean European, not American, sizes). As far as his “foreign minister” Baerbock is concerned, I am sure that her IQ is way lower, somewhere at the level of her boob size.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.

    The NS1 / NS2 destruction benefited one nation above all others — POLAND.

    Thus, everyone with an IQ greater higher room temperature believes that the Poles ordered it without consulting any other nation. It might even be a group of Polish rogue officials or even private citizens. Only the Dimmest of the Dim would misallocate blame to the U.S.

    There is nothing technically complex about the mission, and the size of the ghost ships 100% exonerates the U.S. Navy. It was almost certainly sub-contracted to a commercial mercenary corporation that will be a investigation dead end, assuming they can every be identified.

    POLAND Acted Alone

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Only the Dimmest of the Dim would misallocate blame to the U.S.
     

    POLAND Acted Alone
     
    That easily explains why right after the explosions that damaged NS1 and NS2 former British PM Truss sent Blinken a cable saying “It’s done”. Or does it?

    Replies: @A123

  112. @German_reader
    @songbird


    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.
     
    They're probably just going to reinforce it, the only difference will be that the Soviets (meaning Russians collectively) are also cast as villains, the Tim Snyder view of history. I've also noticed that the claims about German depravity seem to be getting more outlandish with increasing distance of time, there are now African and Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like "the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths", which just seems like a bizarrely inflated number, even if you count the entire Pacific war. The subtext is of course clear enough, there will be no absolution ever, and that history will be used by recent immigrants (without personal connection to WW2) as a weapon against ethnic Germans.
    Ireland's recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland's history.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya, @Barbarossa, @Matra

    Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”,

    If Arab-German MPs are speaking that way regarding Nazi Germany, they have learnt to ape the Western liberals from whom they take their queues. It’s a sign of assimilation to their host society, if perhaps in a way you disapprove of. Very few in the Arab world speak that way, you’re probably more likely to hear positive references to the anti-Semitic regime if anything.

    On a somewhat related note, a few months ago I was talking to an acquaintance whose parents got her an internship with this Egyptian member of the Bundestag: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Radwan

    I remember laughing inside at the thought of this Egyptian girl, who lived all her life in Egypt and was culturally socialized as an Arab, serving a professional function in the German parliament (though she held German citizenship through her [ethnic] German father and had some Germanic facial features). She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections, her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections; though she was fairly interesting and sociable, which is no doubt helpful in politics.

    Also I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across. Some website mentioned nearly 11% of German MPs were of immigrant background (either 1st or 2nd gen), though that was less than the 24% figure for Germany at large. I thought Arabs and Turks in Germany were a fairly apolitical and disorganized bunch. I saw comparatively fewer African and Asian names or faces when I was going through the list.

    Also saw this headline:

    All of Germany’s Muslim MPs voted in favour of same-sex marriage

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-green-party-cem-ozdemir-ekin-deligoz-ozcan-mutlu-omid-nouripour-cemile-giousouf-a7819391.html

    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    • Thanks: A123
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yahya


    her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections
     
    lol, yeah, that sounds like something CSU people like Alexander Radwan could get involved in. He's not the kind of Arab (or semi-Arab) though I was thinking of in my previous comment.

    She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections

     

    That's not a Mideastern specialty, it's not like Germany is run on strictly meritocratic lines (though I suppose there might be differences in how it manifests, in Germany the role of political parties and their patronage networks is rather pronounced).
    , @Mikel
    @Yahya


    I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across.
     
    You probably didn't recognize Sahra Wagenknecht as a name associated with the Middle-East but she's half-Iranian. If I interpret your tastes correctly, you should like her looks. I do.

    https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.f4ec420b-53cd-4e6a-9be7-b477907f27ed.original1024.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya

    , @Sher Singh
    @Yahya

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLweKTxbIwU

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/05/04/bbc-asian-network-plays-rap-song-about-pimping-white-girls-money/

    They only seem to assimilate where whites are an overwhelming majority.
    Have faith & give it a generation, Continental Europe is behind even Britain in replacement.

    , @Coconuts
    @Yahya


    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.
     
    At least in Britain there is a kind of 'intersectional' deal between Muslims and progressive white groups, LGBTQIA+, Feminists etc. Muslims groups provide electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.

    Sher Singh mentioned it, but progressives used their influence to protect Muslim grooming and rape gangs for a couple of decades in exchange for the electoral and cultural support they brought to the British Labour Party.

    I used to think his posts were eccentric but A123 is probably just picking up on the same tendencies in the US.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @A123

  113. @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.
     
    The NS1 / NS2 destruction benefited one nation above all others -- POLAND.

    Thus, everyone with an IQ greater higher room temperature believes that the Poles ordered it without consulting any other nation. It might even be a group of Polish rogue officials or even private citizens. Only the Dimmest of the Dim would misallocate blame to the U.S.

    There is nothing technically complex about the mission, and the size of the ghost ships 100% exonerates the U.S. Navy. It was almost certainly sub-contracted to a commercial mercenary corporation that will be a investigation dead end, assuming they can every be identified.

    POLAND Acted Alone

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Only the Dimmest of the Dim would misallocate blame to the U.S.

    POLAND Acted Alone

    That easily explains why right after the explosions that damaged NS1 and NS2 former British PM Truss sent Blinken a cable saying “It’s done”. Or does it?

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    That easily explains why right after the explosions that damaged NS1 and NS2 former British PM Truss sent Blinken a cable saying “It’s done”. Or does it?
     
    ROTFL

    You are relying on Kim DotCom as an information source?

    The guy who put an inflatable tank decoy in his front yard? (1)

     
    https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Dummy-Tank-1.jpg
     

    Just how gullible are you?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.carscoops.com/2012/01/blown-up-tank-arrives-in-front-of-kim/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  114. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Only the Dimmest of the Dim would misallocate blame to the U.S.
     

    POLAND Acted Alone
     
    That easily explains why right after the explosions that damaged NS1 and NS2 former British PM Truss sent Blinken a cable saying “It’s done”. Or does it?

    Replies: @A123

    That easily explains why right after the explosions that damaged NS1 and NS2 former British PM Truss sent Blinken a cable saying “It’s done”. Or does it?

    ROTFL

    You are relying on Kim DotCom as an information source?

    The guy who put an inflatable tank decoy in his front yard? (1)

     

     

    Just how gullible are you?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.carscoops.com/2012/01/blown-up-tank-arrives-in-front-of-kim/

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Just how gullible are you?
     
    Are the statements of Biden and other US officials that the US would not allow NS2 to function (issued before the terrorist act), as well as Blinken’s statement about “tremendous opportunities” for the US LNG producers (issued after the terrorist act) also propaganda? Or are these personages run by Poland? Or maybe by the Republic of Palau?

    Replies: @A123

  115. @songbird
    @German_reader


    They’re probably just going to reinforce it
     
    This is quite possible. In a loose way, I would say that it has already happened with blacks in America and the UK. Of course, some of that insanity goes back quite a ways. But it seems like there has been some level of black memorialism, following Holocaust memorialism, as well as concerted attempts at narrative capture, following the previous narrative capture.

    I think Boston is actually a good example of this. It originally had something called the Freedom Trail about the Revolutionary War, that schoolkids were sent to. Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.

    The height of this is no doubt that Slavery Museum, which seems conceived by Blacula. They store jars of dirt there from every lynching of a black, whether he was a murderer and/or rapist (as many were). And the museum has baby memorials that it has given birth to, and which it holds, for placing on the site of all these lynchings.

    https://nieman.harvard.edu/stories/building-a-museum-with-jars-of-dirt-and-building-stories-from-the-ground-up/

    Ireland’s recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.
     
    Progressives everywhere in the West seem to have the same susceptibilities, and it is really disturbing to consider that there might not be any possibility of an immunization to the disease, based on national history or culture, but that it might be a combination of biology and environment, with little prospects of changing either.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Coconuts

    Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.

    However there seems to be such feeling that maybe might be called “competition of victims” which is bubbling quite deeply but strong under the surface – remembered reading a story from from a basketball star Ray Allen, who got a negative reactions from his own social media bubble because of the trip to Aushwitz in 2017:

    When I returned home to America, I got some very disheartening messages directed toward me on social media regarding my trip. Some people didn’t like the fact that I was going to Poland to raise awareness for the issues that happened there and not using that time or energy to support people in the black community.

    I was told my ancestors would be ashamed of me.

    I know there are trolls online and I shouldn’t even pay attention, but that one sort of got to me. Because I understood where they were coming from. I understand that there are plenty of issues in our own country right now, but they were looking at my trip the wrong way.

    https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/ray-allen-why-i-went-to-auschwitz

    So I’m getting increasing feeling that currently all this Kanye, Fuentes and Trump dinner thing is absolutely calculated in advance and deliberate election tactics, because the gamble is being done on that victim competition feeling in order to reduce black voting percentage for Dems in the 2024, at the same also encouraging and reattracting those who were dissatisfied with all the de facto extreme MIGA agenda during Trump 2016-2020 tenure.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @sudden death

    Thanks, that Ray Allen story is funny. I feel like he must have got something out of it, but I don't know what, since he was retired, at that point. A lot of black players are really bad with their money. Another player who played for Boston for a while, Antoine Walker earned $108 million during his career, but had to file for bankruptcy.


    So I’m getting increasing feeling that currently all this Kanye, Fuentes and Trump dinner thing is absolutely calculated in advance and deliberate election tactics, because the gamble is being done on that victim competition feeling in order to reduce black voting percentage for Dems in the 2024
     
    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.

    For me, the part I keep thinking about is how much of Kanye's behavior is explained by craziness and how much by low IQ? Is it even possible to distinguish the two things? Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone, what exactly is that? (Found it to be a pretty amusing counterpoint to the dubious list of black inventors that one gets hit with every year in black history month, esp. as a black guy was saying it)

    Replies: @German_reader

  116. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”,
     
    If Arab-German MPs are speaking that way regarding Nazi Germany, they have learnt to ape the Western liberals from whom they take their queues. It’s a sign of assimilation to their host society, if perhaps in a way you disapprove of. Very few in the Arab world speak that way, you’re probably more likely to hear positive references to the anti-Semitic regime if anything.

    On a somewhat related note, a few months ago I was talking to an acquaintance whose parents got her an internship with this Egyptian member of the Bundestag: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Radwan

    I remember laughing inside at the thought of this Egyptian girl, who lived all her life in Egypt and was culturally socialized as an Arab, serving a professional function in the German parliament (though she held German citizenship through her [ethnic] German father and had some Germanic facial features). She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections, her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections; though she was fairly interesting and sociable, which is no doubt helpful in politics.

    Also I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across. Some website mentioned nearly 11% of German MPs were of immigrant background (either 1st or 2nd gen), though that was less than the 24% figure for Germany at large. I thought Arabs and Turks in Germany were a fairly apolitical and disorganized bunch. I saw comparatively fewer African and Asian names or faces when I was going through the list.

    Also saw this headline:

    All of Germany's Muslim MPs voted in favour of same-sex marriage

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-green-party-cem-ozdemir-ekin-deligoz-ozcan-mutlu-omid-nouripour-cemile-giousouf-a7819391.html
     
    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mikel, @Sher Singh, @Coconuts

    her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections

    lol, yeah, that sounds like something CSU people like Alexander Radwan could get involved in. He’s not the kind of Arab (or semi-Arab) though I was thinking of in my previous comment.

    She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections

    That’s not a Mideastern specialty, it’s not like Germany is run on strictly meritocratic lines (though I suppose there might be differences in how it manifests, in Germany the role of political parties and their patronage networks is rather pronounced).

  117. @showmethereal
    @Barbarossa

    I never understood the obsession with extreme weight lifting and body building. It doesn’t help in a fight. Plenty of bulky people get beat up by smaller people who have good technique for hitting. All that bulk doesn’t extend life either…. Strength training does (of course with good lifestyle and cardio…. But bulky muscles doesn’t do much unless someone is a lumber Jack….

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Mikel

    All that bulk doesn’t extend life either

    I wouldn’t put it that way. You are possibly right that bodybuilding is not the best strategy for life extension purposes, even if you practice it clean, insofar it involves high consumption of animal protein. At least that’s what some (but not all) longevity researchers say. But there are several important caveats:

    – Metabolism varies greatly between individuals and populations. It is difficult to give dietary advice that will work equally well (or at all) for everybody.

    – If these researchers are right, plant-based proteins with low contents of leucin and isoleucin would only have rather modest effects on cell protection and lifespan. At best, a few years in exchange for giving up the pleasure of animal protein.

    – The most important caveat, that relates directly to your statement, is that muscle bulk in itself does extend healthspan and lifespan. Muscle loss is one of the inevitable consequences of aging. It starts at around 30 years of age and becomes worse with each decade. As you age, this muscle loss starts to have increasingly important functional effects. Not only you become unable to do many things that you were able to do before but this progressive lack of activity has detrimental metabolic effects. It also prevents you from you doing vigorous aerobic exercise, that is the best known way to stay healthy, and increases frailty, which reduces lifespan. A hip or other bone fracture would not be a very life-changing event in your 20s but in your 70s-80s it may lead you to early death in a couple of years. The lack of muscle at those ages means that people may never recover from an accident like that. They become semi-paralyzed or bedridden, which increases muscle loss and lack of activity even more and greatly reduces life expectancy.

    The best way to prevent all of that is to maintain as much muscle as you can in your old age. This, in turn, is easier if you achieved good muscle size in your youth, when you really are able to generate good hypertrophy. Keeping or returning to a muscle mass that was already there is much easier than trying to generate that muscle at an old age, when metabolism, strength and joint health are all playing against you.

    I don’t particularly like lifting weights at the gym, I much prefer strenuous exercise in nature, but it is what it is. Btw, a very little known fact is that muscle cells are the only cells that never develop cancer. It is not known why but scientists hope to apply their knowledge to the cure of cancer when they finally unravel the secret.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Mikel

    Of course there are many factors (genetics - environment - diet/lifestyle)... Anecdotally I think "strenuous exercise in nature" is probably a better bet. The people I know who practice such tend to live longer and have much better quality of life up into their 70's and 80's (some losing function in their 90's). I've never seen it among the "body building" crowd - but maybe because that's a newer phenomenon. I wonder what the average life expectancy of a body builder is - and likewise rugby and american football players compared to other athletes....??

    Replies: @Mikel

  118. @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    That easily explains why right after the explosions that damaged NS1 and NS2 former British PM Truss sent Blinken a cable saying “It’s done”. Or does it?
     
    ROTFL

    You are relying on Kim DotCom as an information source?

    The guy who put an inflatable tank decoy in his front yard? (1)

     
    https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Dummy-Tank-1.jpg
     

    Just how gullible are you?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.carscoops.com/2012/01/blown-up-tank-arrives-in-front-of-kim/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Just how gullible are you?

    Are the statements of Biden and other US officials that the US would not allow NS2 to function (issued before the terrorist act), as well as Blinken’s statement about “tremendous opportunities” for the US LNG producers (issued after the terrorist act) also propaganda? Or are these personages run by Poland? Or maybe by the Republic of Palau?

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN

    Everybody with an IQ greater than their shoe size knows that POLAND had the most to gain.

    Given the trivial size of such an operation, why would Warsaw leak to multiple other countries? A multinational conspiracy is ludicrous.

    What you insist on pushing is less plausible that Mr. Unz and his insistence that WUHAN-19 was stolen from Fort Detrick.


    British PM Truss sent Blinken a text message saying “It’s done”.
     
    Group B in the World Cup has been successfully bought. England and the U.S. will advance... Trampling the Welshies! Viva La London! Do you think Iran's was humiliation was accidental?

    No doubt, Blinken and Truss cleaned up betting on rigged FIFA matches.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgrzf34LSdioBOd6tCTz_o2Vle_lHqTQGFU9Hpf7vykXOUfKecdC3fg4u0Yqma09j5RYY__vDz8gEcm21N8WuoZxrKSZgRemdozxoh3dDDY4gXPp3gR_5JB6s0kBIkgOP0RqWNobXO1MDLHPdNaTgPuBzUjc4DC0qbhwXDabfLYXxABmqGpTNcjiF-fIA/s488/1%20dfgsdfgdgdg.jpg

  119. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Just how gullible are you?
     
    Are the statements of Biden and other US officials that the US would not allow NS2 to function (issued before the terrorist act), as well as Blinken’s statement about “tremendous opportunities” for the US LNG producers (issued after the terrorist act) also propaganda? Or are these personages run by Poland? Or maybe by the Republic of Palau?

    Replies: @A123

    Everybody with an IQ greater than their shoe size knows that POLAND had the most to gain.

    Given the trivial size of such an operation, why would Warsaw leak to multiple other countries? A multinational conspiracy is ludicrous.

    What you insist on pushing is less plausible that Mr. Unz and his insistence that WUHAN-19 was stolen from Fort Detrick.

    British PM Truss sent Blinken a text message saying “It’s done”.

    Group B in the World Cup has been successfully bought. England and the U.S. will advance… Trampling the Welshies! Viva La London! Do you think Iran’s was humiliation was accidental?

    No doubt, Blinken and Truss cleaned up betting on rigged FIFA matches.

    PEACE 😇

     

  120. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”,
     
    If Arab-German MPs are speaking that way regarding Nazi Germany, they have learnt to ape the Western liberals from whom they take their queues. It’s a sign of assimilation to their host society, if perhaps in a way you disapprove of. Very few in the Arab world speak that way, you’re probably more likely to hear positive references to the anti-Semitic regime if anything.

    On a somewhat related note, a few months ago I was talking to an acquaintance whose parents got her an internship with this Egyptian member of the Bundestag: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Radwan

    I remember laughing inside at the thought of this Egyptian girl, who lived all her life in Egypt and was culturally socialized as an Arab, serving a professional function in the German parliament (though she held German citizenship through her [ethnic] German father and had some Germanic facial features). She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections, her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections; though she was fairly interesting and sociable, which is no doubt helpful in politics.

    Also I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across. Some website mentioned nearly 11% of German MPs were of immigrant background (either 1st or 2nd gen), though that was less than the 24% figure for Germany at large. I thought Arabs and Turks in Germany were a fairly apolitical and disorganized bunch. I saw comparatively fewer African and Asian names or faces when I was going through the list.

    Also saw this headline:

    All of Germany's Muslim MPs voted in favour of same-sex marriage

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-green-party-cem-ozdemir-ekin-deligoz-ozcan-mutlu-omid-nouripour-cemile-giousouf-a7819391.html
     
    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mikel, @Sher Singh, @Coconuts

    I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across.

    You probably didn’t recognize Sahra Wagenknecht as a name associated with the Middle-East but she’s half-Iranian. If I interpret your tastes correctly, you should like her looks. I do.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mikel


    she’s half-Iranian
     
    Genetically, but she hardly knew her father (he left his family when she was a small child and went back to Iran, it's not even clear what happened to him after that). Culturally she's extremely German, probably best knowledge of German classics among the German political class which can hardly be accused of being very cultured. Incidentally, for a commie she's also surprisingly popular among the German right (and hated by much of her own party which has been trying to get rid of her), since she hasn't adopted the kind of anti-white/anti-German identity politics that is increasingly common and is quite anti-American.
    , @Yahya
    @Mikel


    I interpret your tastes correctly, you should like her looks.
     
    Yes she’s close to my taste alley; though the picture you posted is one of her better ones; unfortunately she’s less attractive in some of her other pictures.

    But judged by the Bundestag curve, she’s a veritable supermodel.

    I think female MPs from the post-Soviet space are better-looking than Germanic MPs. Natalia Poklonskaya in Russia, Arpine Hovhannisyan in Armenia, Joana Mucha in Poland, and perhaps the younger Yulia Tymoshenko in Ukraine.

    The best-looking female politician has to be the former Mayor of Rome.

    I’m more interested in Wagenknecht’s political views and personality than her looks.

    I agree with German_Reader, there's not much Iranian or Middle Eastern about her. In her demeanor she is 100% German.

    She's dark-haired and dark-eyed but her facial features tend towards the Germanic. I'd classify her look as "Indo-European".

    She seems to be independent-minded which is rare for a female, and a German one no less.

    One has to admire the fact that she's taken a pro-Russian stance and espouses immigration restriction despite the immense pressure to conform from her left-wing ideological compatriots and German society at large.

    Her being a communist doesn’t preclude her from being intelligent; even if we disagree with their premises, one has to admit there are many intelligent communists after all; but it does point to a certain lack of judgement, or perhaps an irrational commitment to an ideological worldview.

    But her face certainly gives the impression of a strong-willed, intelligent woman, which always adds points to any female attractiveness scale in my book.

  121. German_reader says:
    @Mikel
    @Yahya


    I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across.
     
    You probably didn't recognize Sahra Wagenknecht as a name associated with the Middle-East but she's half-Iranian. If I interpret your tastes correctly, you should like her looks. I do.

    https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.f4ec420b-53cd-4e6a-9be7-b477907f27ed.original1024.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya

    she’s half-Iranian

    Genetically, but she hardly knew her father (he left his family when she was a small child and went back to Iran, it’s not even clear what happened to him after that). Culturally she’s extremely German, probably best knowledge of German classics among the German political class which can hardly be accused of being very cultured. Incidentally, for a commie she’s also surprisingly popular among the German right (and hated by much of her own party which has been trying to get rid of her), since she hasn’t adopted the kind of anti-white/anti-German identity politics that is increasingly common and is quite anti-American.

    • Thanks: Mikel
  122. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I can only assume that Scholz’s government already knows exactly who did it and that this is part of a preemptive attempt at narrative management.
     
    Everybody with IQ greater than the shoe size knows who blew up NS1 and NS2. I mean, it’s like contractual murder: you may not know who actually pulled the trigger, but you do know who ordered it.

    However, I am not sure that an average IQ in Scholz government is greater than their shoe size (if we mean European, not American, sizes). As far as his “foreign minister” Baerbock is concerned, I am sure that her IQ is way lower, somewhere at the level of her boob size.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    Baerbock is 85B, not bad for a short girl. She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day. Her problem – and Scholz’s – is that they got themselves way over their heads and it is escalating. Their natural response is to double down to keep some gravitas, but it will be very bad for Germany.

    Merkel should had forced Minsk on Kiev but she wasn’t allowed to. What is going on is an inevitable consequence of the decision to get Nato into Ukraine. Germany is a marginal secondary player and it was decided above them. Merkel tried to slow down the march to war – and she did – but all else was preordained. The fault lies primarily with the two moron cults in Washington and London.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day.
     
    She said so many stupid things on camera, things that only a hopeless ignoramus might say, that she can even compete with Biden. Answering a question where Germany will get electricity, she said “from the power lines we already have”. Hearing complains that there isn’t enough electricity in Germany she retorted that Germany has enough electric outlets for every resident. Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany. So, her knowledge of geography equals her knowledge of physics.

    She’d be a perfect bartender: no brains, decent looks, big boobs. Drunk male customers would tip her handsomely. But I’d make a better Pope than she a foreign minister (or any minister, for that matter). Tuvalu would be ashamed to have a minister like that.

    Replies: @songbird, @Beckow

  123. @sudden death
    @songbird


    Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.
     
    However there seems to be such feeling that maybe might be called "competition of victims" which is bubbling quite deeply but strong under the surface - remembered reading a story from from a basketball star Ray Allen, who got a negative reactions from his own social media bubble because of the trip to Aushwitz in 2017:

    When I returned home to America, I got some very disheartening messages directed toward me on social media regarding my trip. Some people didn’t like the fact that I was going to Poland to raise awareness for the issues that happened there and not using that time or energy to support people in the black community.

    I was told my ancestors would be ashamed of me.

    I know there are trolls online and I shouldn’t even pay attention, but that one sort of got to me. Because I understood where they were coming from. I understand that there are plenty of issues in our own country right now, but they were looking at my trip the wrong way.
     

    https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/ray-allen-why-i-went-to-auschwitz

    So I'm getting increasing feeling that currently all this Kanye, Fuentes and Trump dinner thing is absolutely calculated in advance and deliberate election tactics, because the gamble is being done on that victim competition feeling in order to reduce black voting percentage for Dems in the 2024, at the same also encouraging and reattracting those who were dissatisfied with all the de facto extreme MIGA agenda during Trump 2016-2020 tenure.

    Replies: @songbird

    Thanks, that Ray Allen story is funny. I feel like he must have got something out of it, but I don’t know what, since he was retired, at that point. A lot of black players are really bad with their money. Another player who played for Boston for a while, Antoine Walker earned $108 million during his career, but had to file for bankruptcy.

    So I’m getting increasing feeling that currently all this Kanye, Fuentes and Trump dinner thing is absolutely calculated in advance and deliberate election tactics, because the gamble is being done on that victim competition feeling in order to reduce black voting percentage for Dems in the 2024

    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.

    For me, the part I keep thinking about is how much of Kanye’s behavior is explained by craziness and how much by low IQ? Is it even possible to distinguish the two things? Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone, what exactly is that? (Found it to be a pretty amusing counterpoint to the dubious list of black inventors that one gets hit with every year in black history month, esp. as a black guy was saying it)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.
     
    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who's probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time...and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump's new voter basis?

    Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone
     
    Obviously crazy, but on the other hand, without that kind of technology (and I believe microphones were a fairly recent innovation back then) Hitler's appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn't have been possible to the same extent, it was a very modern style of politics at the time. So strangely enough, in a fool's way Kanye might still be getting at some deeper truth.

    Replies: @songbird, @sudden death, @A123

  124. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @sudden death

    Thanks, that Ray Allen story is funny. I feel like he must have got something out of it, but I don't know what, since he was retired, at that point. A lot of black players are really bad with their money. Another player who played for Boston for a while, Antoine Walker earned $108 million during his career, but had to file for bankruptcy.


    So I’m getting increasing feeling that currently all this Kanye, Fuentes and Trump dinner thing is absolutely calculated in advance and deliberate election tactics, because the gamble is being done on that victim competition feeling in order to reduce black voting percentage for Dems in the 2024
     
    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.

    For me, the part I keep thinking about is how much of Kanye's behavior is explained by craziness and how much by low IQ? Is it even possible to distinguish the two things? Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone, what exactly is that? (Found it to be a pretty amusing counterpoint to the dubious list of black inventors that one gets hit with every year in black history month, esp. as a black guy was saying it)

    Replies: @German_reader

    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.

    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who’s probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time…and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump’s new voter basis?

    Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone

    Obviously crazy, but on the other hand, without that kind of technology (and I believe microphones were a fairly recent innovation back then) Hitler’s appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn’t have been possible to the same extent, it was a very modern style of politics at the time. So strangely enough, in a fool’s way Kanye might still be getting at some deeper truth.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types
     
    Is there more than one? (Just joking, A123! You know I like you and what you bring here.)

    Hitler’s appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn’t have been possible to the same extent
     
    I suppose this must come through in pop culture to a certain extent.

    BTW, I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement. Anyway, whether or not that last is the case, it is really funny that in the trailer Harrison Ford's head is clearly CGI'ed on the rider of a bucking horse.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @silviosilver

    , @sudden death
    @German_reader


    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time…and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump’s new voter basis?
     
    Depends how you define "normal" voters, but independents or moderates are pretty much gone for Trump anyway even before Kanye, A123 types will do all kinds of imaginable mental gymnastics about "honest" mistakes or push plausible deniabilities about "falling out" with Kanye and "not knowing" Fuentes, who was just some accidentaly walking by hobo at the Trump table, the same with Jewish megadonors who will believe Trump is really lying to racialists, but not to them and in fact will do the same as he was doing in 2016-2020, if election will be succesful.

    Trump also does not really need "ryl OG Black Joos" types to vote for him in 2024, primary goal is making them just not voting for Dems.

    Ofc all those possible cunning catculations might be mistaken, which would not be much of a surprise, but then you can always easily scream about election fraud again, it's not like there is much to lose for Trump now...

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @A123
    @German_reader



    it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.
     
    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who’s probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types
     
    The set-up was not arranged "by the other side" per say. It was simple, sideless attention theatrics. The suspect has been rousted:

     
    https://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/05/232e7e03-1fcf-4ba3-b38a-30d7bcb87d38-640x427.jpg
     

    Milo Yiannopoulos had his 15 minutes of fame ages ago and has been relegated to the dust bin of history. Fuentes is also a Z-List attention whore.
    ___

    The entire story has no traction.

    Kanye and Trump have met before, so the dinner after Ye did something stupid does not move the needle among normal voters. Anyone whose vote was tied to the Trump/Kanye's connection was already locked.

    Fuentes is a nobody like Milo. Being at a dinner table with someone you do not know? Again, does not move the needle among normal voters, such as myself.
    ___

    Even then, perhaps there might have been minor ongoing issues. Then Trump was 100% rescued and the blight was purged. The SwampFather, Mitch McConnell, lurched forth from the bowels of Washington's sewers to be outraged: (1)


    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., appeared to take aim at former President Donald Trump on Tuesday over his decision to host Ye and white supremacist Nick Fuentes for dinner last week at his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida.

     

    The guy with only a 7% favorable rating is giving Trump hard time (2).

    It is not sticking. One can reasonably assume that 93% either back Trump or do not care about the dinner.
    ___

    So the scorecard is:

    • Was it a unwise? Yes.
    • Will it have a lasting negative impact? No.
    • Is there a silver lining? Yes.

    Trump's campaign staff has now expanded its coverages to "all meetings" instead of only campaign encounters. This minor issue has slammed the door shut on cheap ambush methodology.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://news.yahoo.com/mcconnell-condemns-trump-dinner-white-195652958.html

    (2) https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/11/14/record-low-7-voters-view-mitch-mcconnell-favorably/

    Replies: @silviosilver

  125. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.
     
    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who's probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time...and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump's new voter basis?

    Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone
     
    Obviously crazy, but on the other hand, without that kind of technology (and I believe microphones were a fairly recent innovation back then) Hitler's appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn't have been possible to the same extent, it was a very modern style of politics at the time. So strangely enough, in a fool's way Kanye might still be getting at some deeper truth.

    Replies: @songbird, @sudden death, @A123

    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types

    Is there more than one? (Just joking, A123! You know I like you and what you bring here.)

    Hitler’s appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn’t have been possible to the same extent

    I suppose this must come through in pop culture to a certain extent.

    BTW, I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement. Anyway, whether or not that last is the case, it is really funny that in the trailer Harrison Ford’s head is clearly CGI’ed on the rider of a bucking horse.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    Is there more than one?
     
    His particular combination of views is probably pretty unique...when reading his comments I still often find myself wondering "Can this guy be real? Do people like him really exist?"...but at least it's good entertainment.

    I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie.
     
    I think that's already been pretty much confirmed by the director (some prog asshole from Britain). Will probably be something along the lines of the von Braun character acquiring a time travel artifact ("dial of destiny", lol) and trying to change history with it, so Germany wins the war. Fits in well with the spirit of the times where "Nazis", "white supremacists" etc. are supposedly an ever-present, lurking threat.
    , @A123
    @songbird


    I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.
     
    That does appear to be the case. The Critical Drinker has already opined.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8395JgNJ0sg
    , @silviosilver
    @songbird


    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.
     
    If that's not the plot, bro, please, don't give them any ideas.

    Or, on the other hand, do - maybe the shock therapy of immanentizing the eschaton will accelerate us through and past this most horrific phase of western cultural decadence.

    To that end, how's about a "Back To The Future" remake, in which Marty's mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape? But on returning back to the present she realizes it means her beloved Marty was never born, so she gets the idea of going back in time again to collect a semen sample before she launches into the rape accusations. She has a problem, though - the Delorean is out of fuel, and the 'mad scientist' professor never started work on a time machine because he was imprisoned for 'rape,' along with most other white males. She has no choice but to recruit among the no-longer-so-hidden-figure black women now holding down the physics professorships...


    Is there more than one?
     
    It's like you've never watched Highlander.

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

  126. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader


    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types
     
    Is there more than one? (Just joking, A123! You know I like you and what you bring here.)

    Hitler’s appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn’t have been possible to the same extent
     
    I suppose this must come through in pop culture to a certain extent.

    BTW, I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement. Anyway, whether or not that last is the case, it is really funny that in the trailer Harrison Ford's head is clearly CGI'ed on the rider of a bucking horse.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @silviosilver

    Is there more than one?

    His particular combination of views is probably pretty unique…when reading his comments I still often find myself wondering “Can this guy be real? Do people like him really exist?”…but at least it’s good entertainment.

    I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie.

    I think that’s already been pretty much confirmed by the director (some prog asshole from Britain). Will probably be something along the lines of the von Braun character acquiring a time travel artifact (“dial of destiny”, lol) and trying to change history with it, so Germany wins the war. Fits in well with the spirit of the times where “Nazis”, “white supremacists” etc. are supposedly an ever-present, lurking threat.

  127. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.
     
    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who's probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time...and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump's new voter basis?

    Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone
     
    Obviously crazy, but on the other hand, without that kind of technology (and I believe microphones were a fairly recent innovation back then) Hitler's appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn't have been possible to the same extent, it was a very modern style of politics at the time. So strangely enough, in a fool's way Kanye might still be getting at some deeper truth.

    Replies: @songbird, @sudden death, @A123

    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time…and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump’s new voter basis?

    Depends how you define “normal” voters, but independents or moderates are pretty much gone for Trump anyway even before Kanye, A123 types will do all kinds of imaginable mental gymnastics about “honest” mistakes or push plausible deniabilities about “falling out” with Kanye and “not knowing” Fuentes, who was just some accidentaly walking by hobo at the Trump table, the same with Jewish megadonors who will believe Trump is really lying to racialists, but not to them and in fact will do the same as he was doing in 2016-2020, if election will be succesful.

    Trump also does not really need “ryl OG Black Joos” types to vote for him in 2024, primary goal is making them just not voting for Dems.

    Ofc all those possible cunning catculations might be mistaken, which would not be much of a surprise, but then you can always easily scream about election fraud again, it’s not like there is much to lose for Trump now…

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @sudden death

    The right is done winning elections for now, but has a more energetic base in the USA.

    They haven't shed the nerd image in Canada yet:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7uzSJAhsI

    Again, we got weed & if the Sikh party blocks most gun control - I'm apolitical at that point.

  128. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Most of the theorizing I heard is that it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.
     
    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who's probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time...and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump's new voter basis?

    Like when he said Hitler invented the microphone
     
    Obviously crazy, but on the other hand, without that kind of technology (and I believe microphones were a fairly recent innovation back then) Hitler's appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn't have been possible to the same extent, it was a very modern style of politics at the time. So strangely enough, in a fool's way Kanye might still be getting at some deeper truth.

    Replies: @songbird, @sudden death, @A123

    it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.

    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who’s probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types

    The set-up was not arranged “by the other side” per say. It was simple, sideless attention theatrics. The suspect has been rousted:

      

    Milo Yiannopoulos had his 15 minutes of fame ages ago and has been relegated to the dust bin of history. Fuentes is also a Z-List attention whore.
    ___

    The entire story has no traction.

    Kanye and Trump have met before, so the dinner after Ye did something stupid does not move the needle among normal voters. Anyone whose vote was tied to the Trump/Kanye’s connection was already locked.

    Fuentes is a nobody like Milo. Being at a dinner table with someone you do not know? Again, does not move the needle among normal voters, such as myself.
    ___

    Even then, perhaps there might have been minor ongoing issues. Then Trump was 100% rescued and the blight was purged. The SwampFather, Mitch McConnell, lurched forth from the bowels of Washington’s sewers to be outraged: (1)

    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., appeared to take aim at former President Donald Trump on Tuesday over his decision to host Ye and white supremacist Nick Fuentes for dinner last week at his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida.

    The guy with only a 7% favorable rating is giving Trump hard time (2).

    It is not sticking. One can reasonably assume that 93% either back Trump or do not care about the dinner.
    ___

    So the scorecard is:

    • Was it a unwise? Yes.
    • Will it have a lasting negative impact? No.
    • Is there a silver lining? Yes.

    Trump’s campaign staff has now expanded its coverages to “all meetings” instead of only campaign encounters. This minor issue has slammed the door shut on cheap ambush methodology.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://news.yahoo.com/mcconnell-condemns-trump-dinner-white-195652958.html

    (2) https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/11/14/record-low-7-voters-view-mitch-mcconnell-favorably/

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @A123


    Trump’s campaign staff has now expanded its coverages to “all meetings” instead of only campaign encounters. This minor issue has slammed the door shut on cheap ambush methodology.
     
    I agree. As I said at another site, better it happened now than a year from now.

    Replies: @songbird

  129. @songbird
    @German_reader


    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types
     
    Is there more than one? (Just joking, A123! You know I like you and what you bring here.)

    Hitler’s appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn’t have been possible to the same extent
     
    I suppose this must come through in pop culture to a certain extent.

    BTW, I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement. Anyway, whether or not that last is the case, it is really funny that in the trailer Harrison Ford's head is clearly CGI'ed on the rider of a bucking horse.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @silviosilver

    I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.

    That does appear to be the case. The Critical Drinker has already opined.

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: songbird
  130. @Mikel
    @Yahya


    I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across.
     
    You probably didn't recognize Sahra Wagenknecht as a name associated with the Middle-East but she's half-Iranian. If I interpret your tastes correctly, you should like her looks. I do.

    https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.f4ec420b-53cd-4e6a-9be7-b477907f27ed.original1024.jpg

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya

    I interpret your tastes correctly, you should like her looks.

    Yes she’s close to my taste alley; though the picture you posted is one of her better ones; unfortunately she’s less attractive in some of her other pictures.

    But judged by the Bundestag curve, she’s a veritable supermodel.

    I think female MPs from the post-Soviet space are better-looking than Germanic MPs. Natalia Poklonskaya in Russia, Arpine Hovhannisyan in Armenia, Joana Mucha in Poland, and perhaps the younger Yulia Tymoshenko in Ukraine.

    The best-looking female politician has to be the former Mayor of Rome.

    I’m more interested in Wagenknecht’s political views and personality than her looks.

    I agree with German_Reader, there’s not much Iranian or Middle Eastern about her. In her demeanor she is 100% German.

    She’s dark-haired and dark-eyed but her facial features tend towards the Germanic. I’d classify her look as “Indo-European”.

    She seems to be independent-minded which is rare for a female, and a German one no less.

    One has to admire the fact that she’s taken a pro-Russian stance and espouses immigration restriction despite the immense pressure to conform from her left-wing ideological compatriots and German society at large.

    Her being a communist doesn’t preclude her from being intelligent; even if we disagree with their premises, one has to admit there are many intelligent communists after all; but it does point to a certain lack of judgement, or perhaps an irrational commitment to an ideological worldview.

    But her face certainly gives the impression of a strong-willed, intelligent woman, which always adds points to any female attractiveness scale in my book.

  131. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel
    @Barbarossa


    That Guardian article is just silly lib-British trolling.
     
    The problem of suddenly feeling bored and starting an online quarrel is that it can easily go overboard with your opponent attacking the wrong targets and making a general stink for everyone. Apologies for that.

    Besides, I must confess that Sher is right. His dismissive comment against mercantile societies really made my blood boil. Though the real reason for my blasphemy was pure envy for his waist long dreadlocks and beautiful beard and mustache. Women must find them so irresistible.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    ਯਾਂਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਸੁਨੀਅਹਿ । ਆਯੁਧ ਧਰਿਬੇ ਉਤੱਮ ਗੁਨੀਅਹਿ ।
    The Guru then said to his Sikhs, “All of the Khalsa listen [to this directive], carrying weapons is the highest action.

    ਜਬਿ ਹਮਰੇ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕੋ ਆਵਹੁ । ਬਨਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਤਨ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਜਾਵਹੁ ।।੭।।
    When you come to have my Darshan, adorn your body with weapons.

    ਕਮਰ ਕਸਾ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਦਿਖਾਈ । ਹਮਰੀ ਖੁਸ਼ੀ ਹੋਇ ਅਧਿਕਾਈ ।
    When showing yourself to me have your Kamar Kasa [waist band which holds weapons] tied, in such a way I shall be extremely happy.

    ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਿਨ ਪਾਉ ਲਖਹੁ ਨਰ । ਕੇਸ ਧਰੇ ਤਬਿ ਆਧੋ ਲਖਿ ਉਰ ।।੮।।
    Those men who do not have Kesh [unshorn hair] or Shastars [weapons], do not recognize those men as full men. Those who have Kesh [unshorn hair], recognize those as half-men.

    ਕੇਸ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਜਬਿ ਦੋਨਹੁਂ ਧਾਰੇ । ਤਬਿ ਨਰੁ ਰੂਪ ਹੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਾਰੇ ।
    Those who have adorned themselves with Kesh [unshorn hair] and Shastar [weapons], those men have attained their full form.”

    All the Dharmic faiths & Zoroastrians ultimately come from Panjab.

    The basque are slaves, No Aryan cuts his hair – look at the Gods.
    Would killing your son in front of you get the message across?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Sher Singh


    All the Dharmic faiths & Zoroastrians ultimately come from Panjab.
     
    Not only that. Panjab also gave us the Gypsies, that have so much enriched European musical culture.

    No Aryan cuts his hair – look at the Gods.
     
    Good point. But I don't think the Gods wipe their rears either. I hesitate to ask you the personal question that this brings to my mind though.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  132. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”,
     
    If Arab-German MPs are speaking that way regarding Nazi Germany, they have learnt to ape the Western liberals from whom they take their queues. It’s a sign of assimilation to their host society, if perhaps in a way you disapprove of. Very few in the Arab world speak that way, you’re probably more likely to hear positive references to the anti-Semitic regime if anything.

    On a somewhat related note, a few months ago I was talking to an acquaintance whose parents got her an internship with this Egyptian member of the Bundestag: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Radwan

    I remember laughing inside at the thought of this Egyptian girl, who lived all her life in Egypt and was culturally socialized as an Arab, serving a professional function in the German parliament (though she held German citizenship through her [ethnic] German father and had some Germanic facial features). She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections, her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections; though she was fairly interesting and sociable, which is no doubt helpful in politics.

    Also I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across. Some website mentioned nearly 11% of German MPs were of immigrant background (either 1st or 2nd gen), though that was less than the 24% figure for Germany at large. I thought Arabs and Turks in Germany were a fairly apolitical and disorganized bunch. I saw comparatively fewer African and Asian names or faces when I was going through the list.

    Also saw this headline:

    All of Germany's Muslim MPs voted in favour of same-sex marriage

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-green-party-cem-ozdemir-ekin-deligoz-ozcan-mutlu-omid-nouripour-cemile-giousouf-a7819391.html
     
    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mikel, @Sher Singh, @Coconuts

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/05/04/bbc-asian-network-plays-rap-song-about-pimping-white-girls-money/

    They only seem to assimilate where whites are an overwhelming majority.
    Have faith & give it a generation, Continental Europe is behind even Britain in replacement.

  133. Sher Singh says:
    @sudden death
    @German_reader


    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types and the sort of Jewish mega-donors that were so important for Trump last time…and in compensation make Black Israelites Trump’s new voter basis?
     
    Depends how you define "normal" voters, but independents or moderates are pretty much gone for Trump anyway even before Kanye, A123 types will do all kinds of imaginable mental gymnastics about "honest" mistakes or push plausible deniabilities about "falling out" with Kanye and "not knowing" Fuentes, who was just some accidentaly walking by hobo at the Trump table, the same with Jewish megadonors who will believe Trump is really lying to racialists, but not to them and in fact will do the same as he was doing in 2016-2020, if election will be succesful.

    Trump also does not really need "ryl OG Black Joos" types to vote for him in 2024, primary goal is making them just not voting for Dems.

    Ofc all those possible cunning catculations might be mistaken, which would not be much of a surprise, but then you can always easily scream about election fraud again, it's not like there is much to lose for Trump now...

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    The right is done winning elections for now, but has a more energetic base in the USA.

    They haven’t shed the nerd image in Canada yet:

    Again, we got weed & if the Sikh party blocks most gun control – I’m apolitical at that point.

  134. @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN

    Baerbock is 85B, not bad for a short girl. She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day. Her problem - and Scholz's - is that they got themselves way over their heads and it is escalating. Their natural response is to double down to keep some gravitas, but it will be very bad for Germany.

    Merkel should had forced Minsk on Kiev but she wasn't allowed to. What is going on is an inevitable consequence of the decision to get Nato into Ukraine. Germany is a marginal secondary player and it was decided above them. Merkel tried to slow down the march to war - and she did - but all else was preordained. The fault lies primarily with the two moron cults in Washington and London.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day.

    She said so many stupid things on camera, things that only a hopeless ignoramus might say, that she can even compete with Biden. Answering a question where Germany will get electricity, she said “from the power lines we already have”. Hearing complains that there isn’t enough electricity in Germany she retorted that Germany has enough electric outlets for every resident. Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany. So, her knowledge of geography equals her knowledge of physics.

    She’d be a perfect bartender: no brains, decent looks, big boobs. Drunk male customers would tip her handsomely. But I’d make a better Pope than she a foreign minister (or any minister, for that matter). Tuvalu would be ashamed to have a minister like that.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonfromTN


    Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany.
     
    If she had said triple that, I would have thought she was referring to some major alien presence at the Earth–Moon L1 point.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN

    Bartendress Annalena in a dim light, noisy music, few drinks, sure she would do well on tips. And no talk of physics or geography.

    But I still think she climbs over 100 - we make a mistake assigning real smarts to the 100-110 band, they are competent, functional, their brain cells move, they simply lack education and critical thinking.

    Baerbock was probably fast-tracked as a 'girl with potential', never challenged and never forced to learn anything hard - like understanding the mysterious magic of electric outlets - it is not all her fault. These people rule us, or are the favorite group to stick up front by the people who do, but they generally make no decisions. Baerbock knows that she should push the war and downplay any consequences - Biden is the same. When the war will be lost and the consequences too dire, they will be quietly replaced.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  135. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day.
     
    She said so many stupid things on camera, things that only a hopeless ignoramus might say, that she can even compete with Biden. Answering a question where Germany will get electricity, she said “from the power lines we already have”. Hearing complains that there isn’t enough electricity in Germany she retorted that Germany has enough electric outlets for every resident. Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany. So, her knowledge of geography equals her knowledge of physics.

    She’d be a perfect bartender: no brains, decent looks, big boobs. Drunk male customers would tip her handsomely. But I’d make a better Pope than she a foreign minister (or any minister, for that matter). Tuvalu would be ashamed to have a minister like that.

    Replies: @songbird, @Beckow

    Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany.

    If she had said triple that, I would have thought she was referring to some major alien presence at the Earth–Moon L1 point.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    If she had said triple that, I would have thought she was referring to some major alien presence at the Earth–Moon L1 point.
     
    She is the kind of person to believe that the Moon is a flat disc nailed to the firmament of the sky.
  136. @songbird
    @AnonfromTN


    Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany.
     
    If she had said triple that, I would have thought she was referring to some major alien presence at the Earth–Moon L1 point.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    If she had said triple that, I would have thought she was referring to some major alien presence at the Earth–Moon L1 point.

    She is the kind of person to believe that the Moon is a flat disc nailed to the firmament of the sky.

    • LOL: songbird
  137. @Sher Singh
    @Mikel


    ਯਾਂਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਸੁਨੀਅਹਿ । ਆਯੁਧ ਧਰਿਬੇ ਉਤੱਮ ਗੁਨੀਅਹਿ ।
    The Guru then said to his Sikhs, "All of the Khalsa listen [to this directive], carrying weapons is the highest action.

    ਜਬਿ ਹਮਰੇ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕੋ ਆਵਹੁ । ਬਨਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਤਨ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਜਾਵਹੁ ।।੭।।
    When you come to have my Darshan, adorn your body with weapons.

    ਕਮਰ ਕਸਾ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਦਿਖਾਈ । ਹਮਰੀ ਖੁਸ਼ੀ ਹੋਇ ਅਧਿਕਾਈ ।
    When showing yourself to me have your Kamar Kasa [waist band which holds weapons] tied, in such a way I shall be extremely happy.

    ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਿਨ ਪਾਉ ਲਖਹੁ ਨਰ । ਕੇਸ ਧਰੇ ਤਬਿ ਆਧੋ ਲਖਿ ਉਰ ।।੮।।
    Those men who do not have Kesh [unshorn hair] or Shastars [weapons], do not recognize those men as full men. Those who have Kesh [unshorn hair], recognize those as half-men.

    ਕੇਸ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਜਬਿ ਦੋਨਹੁਂ ਧਾਰੇ । ਤਬਿ ਨਰੁ ਰੂਪ ਹੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸਾਰੇ ।
    Those who have adorned themselves with Kesh [unshorn hair] and Shastar [weapons], those men have attained their full form."
     
    All the Dharmic faiths & Zoroastrians ultimately come from Panjab.

    The basque are slaves, No Aryan cuts his hair - look at the Gods.
    Would killing your son in front of you get the message across?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    Replies: @Mikel

    All the Dharmic faiths & Zoroastrians ultimately come from Panjab.

    Not only that. Panjab also gave us the Gypsies, that have so much enriched European musical culture.

    No Aryan cuts his hair – look at the Gods.

    Good point. But I don’t think the Gods wipe their rears either. I hesitate to ask you the personal question that this brings to my mind though.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    You're used to bowing so you must be familiar with a rear end.
    A basque sized contingent arrives in both North America & the EU each year, each.

    What're you even arguing about? That I should feel inferior to 'white men'?
    There are no white no-go zones in the EU.

  138. @songbird
    @German_reader


    It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types
     
    Is there more than one? (Just joking, A123! You know I like you and what you bring here.)

    Hitler’s appearances and speeches at mass rallies wouldn’t have been possible to the same extent
     
    I suppose this must come through in pop culture to a certain extent.

    BTW, I have heard some rumor that Indiana Jones fights von Braun in the new movie. Or maybe that was the original plot and they changed it? No idea. But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement. Anyway, whether or not that last is the case, it is really funny that in the trailer Harrison Ford's head is clearly CGI'ed on the rider of a bucking horse.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @silviosilver

    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.

    If that’s not the plot, bro, please, don’t give them any ideas.

    Or, on the other hand, do – maybe the shock therapy of immanentizing the eschaton will accelerate us through and past this most horrific phase of western cultural decadence.

    To that end, how’s about a “Back To The Future” remake, in which Marty’s mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape? But on returning back to the present she realizes it means her beloved Marty was never born, so she gets the idea of going back in time again to collect a semen sample before she launches into the rape accusations. She has a problem, though – the Delorean is out of fuel, and the ‘mad scientist’ professor never started work on a time machine because he was imprisoned for ‘rape,’ along with most other white males. She has no choice but to recruit among the no-longer-so-hidden-figure black women now holding down the physics professorships…

    Is there more than one?

    It’s like you’ve never watched Highlander.

    • Replies: @A123
    @silviosilver



    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.
     
    If that’s not the plot, bro, please, don’t give them any ideas.
     
    Songbird is not providing ideas. The time travel arc will result in:

    • Young Indy being killed
    • Current continuity being erased
    • Apprentice "Girl Power" chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)

    Multiple sources have suggested this is how they are replacing Harrison Ford with an SJW version of Indette Jones (pronounced "In Debt"?).

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @songbird
    @silviosilver


    To that end, how’s about a “Back To The Future” remake, in which Marty’s mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape?
     
    Robert Zemeckis is apparently one of the rare people to come out of Hollywood with some principles, and he has said there will be no remakes while he is alive.

    Which is almost a shame because I am really curious about what sort of extreme trash they would turn a new movie into. I was thinking it would be something along the lines of Marty setting his mother up with one the members of that black band, and thereafter him becoming a lesbian mulatta.

    I still remember that scene where Marty tries to return to his house in the bad timeline, and he finds it is filled with blacks.

    Once, when I was teenager, I was coming out of my friend's house, and much to my surprise, I saw blacks right in his yard using his barbecue grill. Apparently, his father had given them permission, but I did not even know that the new neighbors were black, so it was a surprise to me and to my friend.

    It’s like you’ve never seen Highlander.
     
    lol

    Replies: @sudden death

  139. Sher Singh says:

    Outright close to 70% of young women –
    the only demographic of import in a popularity contest.

    The black sash is a dagger baldric.

  140. Sher Singh says:
    @Mikel
    @Sher Singh


    All the Dharmic faiths & Zoroastrians ultimately come from Panjab.
     
    Not only that. Panjab also gave us the Gypsies, that have so much enriched European musical culture.

    No Aryan cuts his hair – look at the Gods.
     
    Good point. But I don't think the Gods wipe their rears either. I hesitate to ask you the personal question that this brings to my mind though.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    You’re used to bowing so you must be familiar with a rear end.
    A basque sized contingent arrives in both North America & the EU each year, each.

    What’re you even arguing about? That I should feel inferior to ‘white men’?
    There are no white no-go zones in the EU.

  141. How Islam created Benjamin Netanyahu. (1)

    on July 4, 1976. On that day nearly 50 years ago, Israel carried out a stunning mission at the Entebbe Airport in Uganda. A week earlier, a few terrorists, four of them, had hijacked a flight of 248 passengers that were headed from Tel Aviv to Paris. They landed the plane in Entebbe and held the passengers hostage, separating the Israelis out from everyone else, while demanding the release of 53 Palestinian terrorists, many of whom were hardened murderers in Israeli prisons. Their terms were clear. If Israel refused, the hijackers promised to kill the Israeli passengers.

    After a week of planning, Israel’s most elite unit, Sayeret Matkal, carried out a mission to rescue those hostages. And miraculously, almost all of the hostages were rescued alive. The New York Times called it an operation with “no precedent in military history.” Israel lost one soldier in that operation, a 30-year-old unit commander named Yoni Netanyahu.

    The only thing I could think of at that point was that I didn’t want the news to reach my parents through the media. My father was teaching at Cornell University at that time, and I was in Boston, so I made my way through seven hours of indescribable anguish to Ithaca, New York. I walked up the path to my parents house. There was a big glazed window in the front of the house, and I could see my father marching back and forth, his hands clasped behind his back in his typical thoughtful ruminations. All of a sudden, he looked at me. He saw me and he said, with a look of surprise, “Bibi, what are you doing here?” Then he saw my face and he understood immediately. He let out a cry like a wounded animal, and then I heard my mother scream. That was actually worse than hearing about Yoni’s death; it was like a second death.

    Offering up counter stories does nothing to undo the pain that Muslim colonists have inflicted on indigenous Palestinian Jews.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.commonsense.news/p/bibis-back-a-conversation-with-israels

  142. @silviosilver
    @songbird


    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.
     
    If that's not the plot, bro, please, don't give them any ideas.

    Or, on the other hand, do - maybe the shock therapy of immanentizing the eschaton will accelerate us through and past this most horrific phase of western cultural decadence.

    To that end, how's about a "Back To The Future" remake, in which Marty's mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape? But on returning back to the present she realizes it means her beloved Marty was never born, so she gets the idea of going back in time again to collect a semen sample before she launches into the rape accusations. She has a problem, though - the Delorean is out of fuel, and the 'mad scientist' professor never started work on a time machine because he was imprisoned for 'rape,' along with most other white males. She has no choice but to recruit among the no-longer-so-hidden-figure black women now holding down the physics professorships...


    Is there more than one?
     
    It's like you've never watched Highlander.

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.

    If that’s not the plot, bro, please, don’t give them any ideas.

    Songbird is not providing ideas. The time travel arc will result in:

    • Young Indy being killed
    • Current continuity being erased
    • Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)

    Multiple sources have suggested this is how they are replacing Harrison Ford with an SJW version of Indette Jones (pronounced “In Debt”?).

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @A123


    Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)
     
    It has been done already many times before;)

    https://www.joblo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/lara-croft-tomb-raider-1280x720.jpg

    But maybe they should do a crossmix Indiana Jones/Lara Croft movie like Alien/Predator?

    Replies: @A123

  143. @A123
    @German_reader



    it is from the other side, in order to make Trump look bad.
     
    Sounds vastly more plausible, how stupid would one have to be to think that associating with Kanye (who’s probably quite literally mentally ill) will help Trump getting re-elected? It would repel many normal voters, the A123 types
     
    The set-up was not arranged "by the other side" per say. It was simple, sideless attention theatrics. The suspect has been rousted:

     
    https://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/05/232e7e03-1fcf-4ba3-b38a-30d7bcb87d38-640x427.jpg
     

    Milo Yiannopoulos had his 15 minutes of fame ages ago and has been relegated to the dust bin of history. Fuentes is also a Z-List attention whore.
    ___

    The entire story has no traction.

    Kanye and Trump have met before, so the dinner after Ye did something stupid does not move the needle among normal voters. Anyone whose vote was tied to the Trump/Kanye's connection was already locked.

    Fuentes is a nobody like Milo. Being at a dinner table with someone you do not know? Again, does not move the needle among normal voters, such as myself.
    ___

    Even then, perhaps there might have been minor ongoing issues. Then Trump was 100% rescued and the blight was purged. The SwampFather, Mitch McConnell, lurched forth from the bowels of Washington's sewers to be outraged: (1)


    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., appeared to take aim at former President Donald Trump on Tuesday over his decision to host Ye and white supremacist Nick Fuentes for dinner last week at his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida.

     

    The guy with only a 7% favorable rating is giving Trump hard time (2).

    It is not sticking. One can reasonably assume that 93% either back Trump or do not care about the dinner.
    ___

    So the scorecard is:

    • Was it a unwise? Yes.
    • Will it have a lasting negative impact? No.
    • Is there a silver lining? Yes.

    Trump's campaign staff has now expanded its coverages to "all meetings" instead of only campaign encounters. This minor issue has slammed the door shut on cheap ambush methodology.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://news.yahoo.com/mcconnell-condemns-trump-dinner-white-195652958.html

    (2) https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/11/14/record-low-7-voters-view-mitch-mcconnell-favorably/

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Trump’s campaign staff has now expanded its coverages to “all meetings” instead of only campaign encounters. This minor issue has slammed the door shut on cheap ambush methodology.

    I agree. As I said at another site, better it happened now than a year from now.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @silviosilver


    Isn’t that supposed be an ideal point for space-based solar facilities?
     
    Haha, yes, that would actually be much closer to geostationary orbit, but still overshooting it by quite a distance.
  144. @silviosilver
    @songbird


    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.
     
    If that's not the plot, bro, please, don't give them any ideas.

    Or, on the other hand, do - maybe the shock therapy of immanentizing the eschaton will accelerate us through and past this most horrific phase of western cultural decadence.

    To that end, how's about a "Back To The Future" remake, in which Marty's mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape? But on returning back to the present she realizes it means her beloved Marty was never born, so she gets the idea of going back in time again to collect a semen sample before she launches into the rape accusations. She has a problem, though - the Delorean is out of fuel, and the 'mad scientist' professor never started work on a time machine because he was imprisoned for 'rape,' along with most other white males. She has no choice but to recruit among the no-longer-so-hidden-figure black women now holding down the physics professorships...


    Is there more than one?
     
    It's like you've never watched Highlander.

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    To that end, how’s about a “Back To The Future” remake, in which Marty’s mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape?

    Robert Zemeckis is apparently one of the rare people to come out of Hollywood with some principles, and he has said there will be no remakes while he is alive.

    Which is almost a shame because I am really curious about what sort of extreme trash they would turn a new movie into. I was thinking it would be something along the lines of Marty setting his mother up with one the members of that black band, and thereafter him becoming a lesbian mulatta.

    I still remember that scene where Marty tries to return to his house in the bad timeline, and he finds it is filled with blacks.

    Once, when I was teenager, I was coming out of my friend’s house, and much to my surprise, I saw blacks right in his yard using his barbecue grill. Apparently, his father had given them permission, but I did not even know that the new neighbors were black, so it was a surprise to me and to my friend.

    It’s like you’ve never seen Highlander.

    lol

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @songbird


    Robert Zemeckis is apparently one of the rare people to come out of Hollywood with some principles, and he has said there will be no remakes while he is alive.
     
    Probably it's some racist Eastern European Lithuanian recessive gene from his dad at fault, lol

    Bit offtopic, but imho his most ageless movie seem to be "Death Becomes Her" (1992) and got only more relevant over the years considering all the increasing plastic surgery mania:


    And while on the surface, the movie seems to poke fun at the prospect (and consequences) of eternal life, it's actually much more than that – a study in the ugliness of envy and revenge and a bleak indictment of the pointlessness of existence.

    And that may be exactly the point Zemeckis is trying to make in Death Becomes Her. People are heartless, life is pointless, and we're all destined to end up broken and shattered, so maybe we should just laugh it up as much as we can as we go through it. As Lisle says, "Sempre vive!" Just make sure you're smiling when you do.
     

    https://collider.com/death-becomes-her-funniest-film-with-darkest-message/

    Above review is not recommended to read if somebody has not seen the film, it is full of spoilers!

    Replies: @songbird

  145. @silviosilver
    @A123


    Trump’s campaign staff has now expanded its coverages to “all meetings” instead of only campaign encounters. This minor issue has slammed the door shut on cheap ambush methodology.
     
    I agree. As I said at another site, better it happened now than a year from now.

    Replies: @songbird

    Isn’t that supposed be an ideal point for space-based solar facilities?

    Haha, yes, that would actually be much closer to geostationary orbit, but still overshooting it by quite a distance.

  146. @A123
    @silviosilver



    But he supposedly time travels and somehow eliminates his old self, leading to a diverse lady replacement.
     
    If that’s not the plot, bro, please, don’t give them any ideas.
     
    Songbird is not providing ideas. The time travel arc will result in:

    • Young Indy being killed
    • Current continuity being erased
    • Apprentice "Girl Power" chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)

    Multiple sources have suggested this is how they are replacing Harrison Ford with an SJW version of Indette Jones (pronounced "In Debt"?).

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @sudden death

    Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)

    It has been done already many times before;)

    But maybe they should do a crossmix Indiana Jones/Lara Croft movie like Alien/Predator?

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death



    Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)
     
    It has been done already many times before;)
     
    You illustrate Tomb Raider and Hunger Games. The original works had female heroes, this is functional. Resident Evil and Buffy the Vampire Slayer also worked with female leads.

    The problem is forcing uninteresting gender swaps. How is Jodie Whittaker doing as the first female Doctor Who?

    Unappealing bull dykes also fail on screen, even with female audiences. The Birds of Prey TV series had wide appeal even though it was not renewed (left). The movie was a fiasco (right).

     
    https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/birds-of-prey-tv-show-vs-movie.jpg
     

    Mia Sara as Harley Quinn had huge potential. Dr. Harleen Quinzel is a full fledged MD Psychiatrist before meeting The Joker.

     
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/e/ee/Harleen_Quinzel_Birds_of_Prey_0001.jpg
     

    This is a professional, trained in running mind games. Then, she goes bad. The stuff that credible & interesting villains are made from.


    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @sudden death

  147. Back to a positive note.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CllKEMVgASn/?hl=en

    Gonna go lift,

    let’s all go do that.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  148. @songbird
    @silviosilver


    To that end, how’s about a “Back To The Future” remake, in which Marty’s mom goes back in time to accuse George McFly of peeping=rape?
     
    Robert Zemeckis is apparently one of the rare people to come out of Hollywood with some principles, and he has said there will be no remakes while he is alive.

    Which is almost a shame because I am really curious about what sort of extreme trash they would turn a new movie into. I was thinking it would be something along the lines of Marty setting his mother up with one the members of that black band, and thereafter him becoming a lesbian mulatta.

    I still remember that scene where Marty tries to return to his house in the bad timeline, and he finds it is filled with blacks.

    Once, when I was teenager, I was coming out of my friend's house, and much to my surprise, I saw blacks right in his yard using his barbecue grill. Apparently, his father had given them permission, but I did not even know that the new neighbors were black, so it was a surprise to me and to my friend.

    It’s like you’ve never seen Highlander.
     
    lol

    Replies: @sudden death

    Robert Zemeckis is apparently one of the rare people to come out of Hollywood with some principles, and he has said there will be no remakes while he is alive.

    Probably it’s some racist Eastern European Lithuanian recessive gene from his dad at fault, lol

    Bit offtopic, but imho his most ageless movie seem to be “Death Becomes Her” (1992) and got only more relevant over the years considering all the increasing plastic surgery mania:

    And while on the surface, the movie seems to poke fun at the prospect (and consequences) of eternal life, it’s actually much more than that – a study in the ugliness of envy and revenge and a bleak indictment of the pointlessness of existence.

    And that may be exactly the point Zemeckis is trying to make in Death Becomes Her. People are heartless, life is pointless, and we’re all destined to end up broken and shattered, so maybe we should just laugh it up as much as we can as we go through it. As Lisle says, “Sempre vive!” Just make sure you’re smiling when you do.

    https://collider.com/death-becomes-her-funniest-film-with-darkest-message/

    Above review is not recommended to read if somebody has not seen the film, it is full of spoilers!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @sudden death


    his most ageless movie seem to be “Death Becomes Her” (1992)
     
    Did see it quite a long time ago. Believe it or not, I was actuallly thinking about it when there were those posts about plastic surgery.

    Speaking of which, you may laugh, not 100% sure it is plastic, but I've always thought Angeline Jolie didn't look fully European. I had heard Voight was her father, but assumed he had married some sort of SE Asian, maybe a Cambodian and she was a happa, or at least that her mother had been one. She definitely seems to have a touch of exoticism in the face. Maybe that is the Slav in her? She might possibly have a tiny bit of Amerind, but if so, I don't think it shows. In particular, I would say her lips don't look real to me.
  149. @German_reader
    @songbird


    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.
     
    They're probably just going to reinforce it, the only difference will be that the Soviets (meaning Russians collectively) are also cast as villains, the Tim Snyder view of history. I've also noticed that the claims about German depravity seem to be getting more outlandish with increasing distance of time, there are now African and Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like "the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths", which just seems like a bizarrely inflated number, even if you count the entire Pacific war. The subtext is of course clear enough, there will be no absolution ever, and that history will be used by recent immigrants (without personal connection to WW2) as a weapon against ethnic Germans.
    Ireland's recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland's history.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya, @Barbarossa, @Matra

    pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.

    Ireland’s history has nothing to do with it, which is rather the point. When people buy global multi-cult capitalism they have no history anymore. It’s truly a break in the continuity and history is utterly irrelevant.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    They don't buy it, their institutions do (Church). Having or being an elite ain't enough.
    You need institutions which provide social goods & extract loyalty.

    Also much easier for farmers & herders to rebel than salaryman & bureaucrats.
    Hinterland America ain't fallen so I wouldn't be doomerish about Europe.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    , @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Historically Republic of Ireland was the most left-wing country of Western Europe, until around in the 1990s the leaders have changed to become a capitalist tax-haven. It is a kind of Faustian experience where their bankers have sold their left-wing soul to international capitalism. But their left-wing tradition continues like a parallel culture with the local population.

    So, now they have the divided reality, where the left-wing traditions continue with the local people, but the country's economy is developed by compromise with the most cynical capitalism - a tax haven.

    The tax haven strategy was successful to attract a lot of the world's best corporations to open offices in Republic of Ireland, which has become a mass fashion in the 21st century as they reduce their tax costs by vast billions of dollars.

    On the other hand, the education system was historically weak in Ireland, so there were not a good number of local workers that can be hired for many industries (e.g. engineers).

    Many multinational companies are trying to re-invest to improve the education system in Ireland. There is constant funding and scholarships to the local education. But most of the skilled workers will have to import from outside. Local youth are usually less nerds there as the culture, and the youth that smoke so much cannabis you can smell from on the other part of the road.

    So, it becomes a bit eccentric, where most of the skilled workers in the country's most productive industries, are foreign immigrants. Maybe it's not like the engineers in Qatar or UAE, but the local culture is a bit disconnected from the corporations.

    It's still good for the local Irish people, as many young people with relatively low qualifications, are recruited for not cleaning jobs, by the international corporations. The same young people in Russia, will be working in fast food restaurants. And the even most good qualified young people in Russia, will have many times more difficulty to begin an acceptable career.

    You can see with Ireland, there is very easy opportunity relative to the qualifications of the youth - the 23 year old girl with undergraduate for postcolonial studies, and a masters in science in “digital media”, begin working as ui/ux designer for a corporation with multinational dimensions and will have opportunity to climb to different areas in their career. In Russia, the 23 year olds with computer science masters in science, is fighting all the highly qualified people from very competent workers, to begin for $800 a month, in a company where they won't have many places to climb.

  150. @sudden death
    @A123


    Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)
     
    It has been done already many times before;)

    https://www.joblo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/lara-croft-tomb-raider-1280x720.jpg

    But maybe they should do a crossmix Indiana Jones/Lara Croft movie like Alien/Predator?

    Replies: @A123

    Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)

    It has been done already many times before;)

    You illustrate Tomb Raider and Hunger Games. The original works had female heroes, this is functional. Resident Evil and Buffy the Vampire Slayer also worked with female leads.

    The problem is forcing uninteresting gender swaps. How is Jodie Whittaker doing as the first female Doctor Who?

    Unappealing bull dykes also fail on screen, even with female audiences. The Birds of Prey TV series had wide appeal even though it was not renewed (left). The movie was a fiasco (right).

      

    Mia Sara as Harley Quinn had huge potential. Dr. Harleen Quinzel is a full fledged MD Psychiatrist before meeting The Joker.

      

    This is a professional, trained in running mind games. Then, she goes bad. The stuff that credible & interesting villains are made from.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @A123


    You illustrate Tomb Raider and Hunger Games.
     
    Minor correction - female with arrows is not from Hunger games, it's a reboot of Lara Croft, haven't seen it myself though.
  151. @A123
    @sudden death



    Apprentice “Girl Power” chick archeologist becoming the hero(ine)
     
    It has been done already many times before;)
     
    You illustrate Tomb Raider and Hunger Games. The original works had female heroes, this is functional. Resident Evil and Buffy the Vampire Slayer also worked with female leads.

    The problem is forcing uninteresting gender swaps. How is Jodie Whittaker doing as the first female Doctor Who?

    Unappealing bull dykes also fail on screen, even with female audiences. The Birds of Prey TV series had wide appeal even though it was not renewed (left). The movie was a fiasco (right).

     
    https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/birds-of-prey-tv-show-vs-movie.jpg
     

    Mia Sara as Harley Quinn had huge potential. Dr. Harleen Quinzel is a full fledged MD Psychiatrist before meeting The Joker.

     
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/e/ee/Harleen_Quinzel_Birds_of_Prey_0001.jpg
     

    This is a professional, trained in running mind games. Then, she goes bad. The stuff that credible & interesting villains are made from.


    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @sudden death

    You illustrate Tomb Raider and Hunger Games.

    Minor correction – female with arrows is not from Hunger games, it’s a reboot of Lara Croft, haven’t seen it myself though.

    • Thanks: A123
  152. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader


    pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.
     
    Ireland's history has nothing to do with it, which is rather the point. When people buy global multi-cult capitalism they have no history anymore. It's truly a break in the continuity and history is utterly irrelevant.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Dmitry

    They don’t buy it, their institutions do (Church). Having or being an elite ain’t enough.
    You need institutions which provide social goods & extract loyalty.

    Also much easier for farmers & herders to rebel than salaryman & bureaucrats.
    Hinterland America ain’t fallen so I wouldn’t be doomerish about Europe.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Sher Singh


    Hinterland America
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phvpFNUx5Hg&t=44s

    Is that any worse than shitlibs keeping a straight face as they pretend a tranny is a real woman? At least shitlibs appeal to science to justify their values (they fail, but at least it's science they appeal to). Tongue speakers and faith healers, on the other hand...

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

  153. @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    They don't buy it, their institutions do (Church). Having or being an elite ain't enough.
    You need institutions which provide social goods & extract loyalty.

    Also much easier for farmers & herders to rebel than salaryman & bureaucrats.
    Hinterland America ain't fallen so I wouldn't be doomerish about Europe.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Hinterland America

    Is that any worse than shitlibs keeping a straight face as they pretend a tranny is a real woman? At least shitlibs appeal to science to justify their values (they fail, but at least it’s science they appeal to). Tongue speakers and faith healers, on the other hand…

    • LOL: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @silviosilver


    shitlibs keeping a straight face as they pretend a tranny is a real woman
     
    IMO, a man who thinks that he is a woman deserves the same treatment as a man thinking that he is Julius Caesar or Napoleon. Those who think that these men should be treated differently need to see the same psychiatrist.
    , @Sher Singh
    @silviosilver

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1048894931890098206/image.png

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

  154. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like “the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths”,
     
    If Arab-German MPs are speaking that way regarding Nazi Germany, they have learnt to ape the Western liberals from whom they take their queues. It’s a sign of assimilation to their host society, if perhaps in a way you disapprove of. Very few in the Arab world speak that way, you’re probably more likely to hear positive references to the anti-Semitic regime if anything.

    On a somewhat related note, a few months ago I was talking to an acquaintance whose parents got her an internship with this Egyptian member of the Bundestag: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Radwan

    I remember laughing inside at the thought of this Egyptian girl, who lived all her life in Egypt and was culturally socialized as an Arab, serving a professional function in the German parliament (though she held German citizenship through her [ethnic] German father and had some Germanic facial features). She was pretty daft so she definitely got her internship through Middle Eastern-style personal connections, her father apparently is some sort of import/export merchant (read: arms dealer) with lots of connections; though she was fairly interesting and sociable, which is no doubt helpful in politics.

    Also I just browsed through a list of Bundestag members and was surprised at the relatively large numbers of Turkish and Arab names I came across. Some website mentioned nearly 11% of German MPs were of immigrant background (either 1st or 2nd gen), though that was less than the 24% figure for Germany at large. I thought Arabs and Turks in Germany were a fairly apolitical and disorganized bunch. I saw comparatively fewer African and Asian names or faces when I was going through the list.

    Also saw this headline:

    All of Germany's Muslim MPs voted in favour of same-sex marriage

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-green-party-cem-ozdemir-ekin-deligoz-ozcan-mutlu-omid-nouripour-cemile-giousouf-a7819391.html
     
    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mikel, @Sher Singh, @Coconuts

    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.

    At least in Britain there is a kind of ‘intersectional’ deal between Muslims and progressive white groups, LGBTQIA+, Feminists etc. Muslims groups provide electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.

    Sher Singh mentioned it, but progressives used their influence to protect Muslim grooming and rape gangs for a couple of decades in exchange for the electoral and cultural support they brought to the British Labour Party.

    I used to think his posts were eccentric but A123 is probably just picking up on the same tendencies in the US.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Coconuts


    electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.
     
    I think this is what Sher Singh means when he talks about "foederati".

    It's a dangerous bargain with the devil if you are actually wishing to maintain your traditional ways and norms as anything more than a "lifestyle". The progressives won't be satisfied without eventual assimilation and even a passive alignment with those values degrades the transmission of traditional norms and makes this process incremental and somewhat painless for those groups.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @A123
    @Coconuts


    kind of ‘intersectional’ deal between Muslims and progressive
    ...
    Sher Singh mentioned it, but progressives used their influence to protect Muslim grooming and rape gangs for a couple of decades in exchange for the electoral and cultural support they brought to the British Labour Party.

     
    The Bacha Bazi of Afghanistan is not a result of 'Westernization'. It existed long before Christianity got that far. When Pakis and Afghanis reach Europe, they behave as they did in their home countries. The difference is that they have easier prey. And, occasionally it is reported instead of being universally ignored.

    The Pakis in Rotherham displayed genuine Islamic behavior when they ran a grooming gang targeting underage girls. This is the same mind set that produced Balenciaga's recent ad campaign with BDSM teddy bears.

    The deal is not 'intersectional', it is based on commonalities as of culture. One wing of SJW Islam wants to be open about the belief. The other wants to keep it underground. The core values are the same.


    I used to think his posts were eccentric but A123 is probably just picking up on the same tendencies in the US.
     
    Can you name a major U.S. elected Muslim official who is not a full SJW believer? Look at the personal practices of these leaders. It is chock full of unsavory behaviour, the most notable being Ilhan Omar's relationship with her own brother.

    Every BLM event has their catch phrase emblazoned on multiple Pali flags. SJW Islam hates Judeo-Christian values here and abroad. A single, unified belief system is in play.

    Occasionally there are outlier exceptions, such as confrontations with school boards. Mehmet Oz is soft, but not an SJW. However, he lost. SJW Islam wanted the maximum activism that would accompany Fetterman.


    @Yahya

    Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism
     

    When writing, one needs clear shorthand that identifies the groups. Hopefully, the context of "SJW Islam" usage makes it clear that I am primarily focused on SJW Muslims who are an active threat to Judeo-Christians -- primarily Europe, America, and parts of the MENA region.

    For Europe and America, the obvious move to stop the bleeding is the same. Bringing the number of new Muslim immigrants to zero.

    Ending permanent residence and sending them home is a solution picking up momentum in some Europe nations, such as Sweden. Citizens who have converted to SJW Islam is a much harder issue, and a particular difficulty for the U.S.

    PEACE 😇

  155. @songbird
    @German_reader


    They’re probably just going to reinforce it
     
    This is quite possible. In a loose way, I would say that it has already happened with blacks in America and the UK. Of course, some of that insanity goes back quite a ways. But it seems like there has been some level of black memorialism, following Holocaust memorialism, as well as concerted attempts at narrative capture, following the previous narrative capture.

    I think Boston is actually a good example of this. It originally had something called the Freedom Trail about the Revolutionary War, that schoolkids were sent to. Now it has both a Holocaust memorial and black memorials, and the same people promoted both.

    The height of this is no doubt that Slavery Museum, which seems conceived by Blacula. They store jars of dirt there from every lynching of a black, whether he was a murderer and/or rapist (as many were). And the museum has baby memorials that it has given birth to, and which it holds, for placing on the site of all these lynchings.

    https://nieman.harvard.edu/stories/building-a-museum-with-jars-of-dirt-and-building-stories-from-the-ground-up/

    Ireland’s recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.
     
    Progressives everywhere in the West seem to have the same susceptibilities, and it is really disturbing to consider that there might not be any possibility of an immunization to the disease, based on national history or culture, but that it might be a combination of biology and environment, with little prospects of changing either.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Coconuts

    Progressives everywhere in the West seem to have the same susceptibilities, and it is really disturbing to consider that there might not be any possibility of an immunization to the disease, based on national history or culture, but that it might be a combination of biology and environment, with little prospects of changing either.

    It seems to have been predicted a long time ago. In France in the 1900s it was linked with democracy and the principles of 1789, but this often had some biological aspect. Democracy was linked with impotence, feminisation, sterility, depopulation, created to serve the interests of foreigners etc.

    This must be how Evola came up with what would have seemed like eccentric predictions linking democracy with hermaphroditism and negrification in the late 40s and early 50s.

    One powerful take I recently came across advocated an alliance between authoritarian monarchism and revolutionary syndicalism. The proletariat and the monarchy was supposed to unite to destroy the bourgeoisie and its civilisation (liberalism, democracy etc.) The book was made up of essays written in the 1900s and published just before the outbreak of WW1.

    It’s looking more like there was some truth in this tradition of thought, but it is pretty powerful and controversial, probably too radical and controversial to be directly useful now. Possibly some of the French progressive theorising after WW2 was directly inspired by and responding to this sort of thing.

    • Thanks: songbird
  156. @Coconuts
    @Yahya


    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.
     
    At least in Britain there is a kind of 'intersectional' deal between Muslims and progressive white groups, LGBTQIA+, Feminists etc. Muslims groups provide electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.

    Sher Singh mentioned it, but progressives used their influence to protect Muslim grooming and rape gangs for a couple of decades in exchange for the electoral and cultural support they brought to the British Labour Party.

    I used to think his posts were eccentric but A123 is probably just picking up on the same tendencies in the US.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @A123

    electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.

    I think this is what Sher Singh means when he talks about “foederati”.

    It’s a dangerous bargain with the devil if you are actually wishing to maintain your traditional ways and norms as anything more than a “lifestyle”. The progressives won’t be satisfied without eventual assimilation and even a passive alignment with those values degrades the transmission of traditional norms and makes this process incremental and somewhat painless for those groups.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Barbarossa


    The progressives won’t be satisfied without eventual assimilation
     
    How would they enforce that? I don't think they can plausibly threaten large Islamic family clans with taking away their children if they don't allow them to be taught the virtues of LBGQTI+. Cutting welfare might also be problematic. There's always the threat of communal riots in the background, at least in Western Europe with its large compact immigrant communities (somewhat different situation from the US where recent immigrants have a different socioeconomic profile, or don't seem very riot-prone in the case of Mexicans).
    There'll probably still be quite a bit of assimilation into the ruling "liberalism", but also large parallel societies organized according to rather different values.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  157. @sudden death
    @songbird


    Robert Zemeckis is apparently one of the rare people to come out of Hollywood with some principles, and he has said there will be no remakes while he is alive.
     
    Probably it's some racist Eastern European Lithuanian recessive gene from his dad at fault, lol

    Bit offtopic, but imho his most ageless movie seem to be "Death Becomes Her" (1992) and got only more relevant over the years considering all the increasing plastic surgery mania:


    And while on the surface, the movie seems to poke fun at the prospect (and consequences) of eternal life, it's actually much more than that – a study in the ugliness of envy and revenge and a bleak indictment of the pointlessness of existence.

    And that may be exactly the point Zemeckis is trying to make in Death Becomes Her. People are heartless, life is pointless, and we're all destined to end up broken and shattered, so maybe we should just laugh it up as much as we can as we go through it. As Lisle says, "Sempre vive!" Just make sure you're smiling when you do.
     

    https://collider.com/death-becomes-her-funniest-film-with-darkest-message/

    Above review is not recommended to read if somebody has not seen the film, it is full of spoilers!

    Replies: @songbird

    his most ageless movie seem to be “Death Becomes Her” (1992)

    Did see it quite a long time ago. Believe it or not, I was actuallly thinking about it when there were those posts about plastic surgery.

    Speaking of which, you may laugh, not 100% sure it is plastic, but I’ve always thought Angeline Jolie didn’t look fully European. I had heard Voight was her father, but assumed he had married some sort of SE Asian, maybe a Cambodian and she was a happa, or at least that her mother had been one. She definitely seems to have a touch of exoticism in the face. Maybe that is the Slav in her? She might possibly have a tiny bit of Amerind, but if so, I don’t think it shows. In particular, I would say her lips don’t look real to me.

  158. Was Sajid Javid one of those candidates the inner Tory party foisted on some unenriched area?
    ______
    Many years ago, I recall seeing a fictional TV movie or miniseries about two Chinese brothers who had been involved in Tienanmen. They came to America as illegals, I think, and somehow became involved with the Triads.

    I remember this one scene which showed them voraciously eating eggs and rice to show how poor they were. Today, when a dozen eggs cost $7, instead of $1, they’d probably be catching bugs or strays or something.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @songbird

    I suspect you're referencing his clapback("So what?") to Nigel Farage complaining that London is becoming minority White.

    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn't respond.

    Farage's raising of the issue and his cowardly unwillingness to have the debate neatly sums up his entire career. Try to exploit nativist feelings but don't lift a finger to seriously do anything about it. Say what you will about Sajid, but at least he is consistent. He's always been open with his views. It's Farage who is doing the bait and switch.

    ---


    I think one problem that modern culture has with the Chinese brothers living in poverty example you mentioned, is that they would undermine a core premise of modern ideology. Namely, that poverty condemns everyone to perpetual inequality.

    "Povertism" is not new, of course, but my impression is that its hold has only gotten stronger as the West has gotten more diverse. It is actually quite remarkable to study 2nd-gen Chinese-American social mobility in New York. Many of the kids who grew up in Chinatown did so under what we would consider very materially poor circumstances yet their educational and professional outcomes are mostly excellent.

    It's one of those things that become ever-more inconvenient as time goes on and the sample size grows larger, and hence more irrefutable. So the "solution" is to in-before it by saying that even invoking them is a form of model minority myth-making, and hence inherently suspect and possibly racist. You can always count on conservative cowardice to enforce these leftist rules even as they bristle under them, because they dare not fundamentally question their underlying premise.

    The tired "democrats are the real racists" actually has some validity to it. I think conservative Whites are probably the least racist people in the world. They foolishingly try to own the liberals by working under their own premises, which is typically a sign of a loser.

    A real opposition should always work under its own frame of reference, but very few conservatives in the West fundamentally disagree with the dominant liberal assumptions. They just try to own liberals by using liberal talking points.

    Sometimes I feel like we should just label them "low-tax liberals".

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

  159. German_reader says:
    @Barbarossa
    @Coconuts


    electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.
     
    I think this is what Sher Singh means when he talks about "foederati".

    It's a dangerous bargain with the devil if you are actually wishing to maintain your traditional ways and norms as anything more than a "lifestyle". The progressives won't be satisfied without eventual assimilation and even a passive alignment with those values degrades the transmission of traditional norms and makes this process incremental and somewhat painless for those groups.

    Replies: @German_reader

    The progressives won’t be satisfied without eventual assimilation

    How would they enforce that? I don’t think they can plausibly threaten large Islamic family clans with taking away their children if they don’t allow them to be taught the virtues of LBGQTI+. Cutting welfare might also be problematic. There’s always the threat of communal riots in the background, at least in Western Europe with its large compact immigrant communities (somewhat different situation from the US where recent immigrants have a different socioeconomic profile, or don’t seem very riot-prone in the case of Mexicans).
    There’ll probably still be quite a bit of assimilation into the ruling “liberalism”, but also large parallel societies organized according to rather different values.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    It's not necessary to enforce it through overt means, since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity. Such Foederati, as Sher Singh would call them, are useful in eliminating and diluting what the progressives see as native Euro's or American's negative traits. However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred "vibrant" communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.

    Progressive technocrats are like the Borg, ultimately it is always going to come down to, "assimilate or die".

    I think that the situation that Sher Singh and his Sikh brethren or Muslims will ultimately face is one similar to what has recently happened with Red America. The Republican electorate was shamelessly brainwashed and used for decades to enthusiastically forward a pro-corporate, anti-jobs, pro-security state, pro -American empire political agenda. All of these policies were actually undermining their position and once their usefulness was exhausted they have been cast aside to rot. Only now does the "Right" see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

    So if all the minorities want to try to play the system for gain they can try, but I think they will all be expected to kneel before a drag queen eventually. Once that realization fully hits it will probably be too late to really resist it with full strength.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Coconuts

  160. @Coconuts
    @Yahya


    Ties back to my previous comment of Muslims in Europe assimilating into Westoid liberalism. Perhaps A1233 had a point about “Islamic SJWism” after all. Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism”.
     
    At least in Britain there is a kind of 'intersectional' deal between Muslims and progressive white groups, LGBTQIA+, Feminists etc. Muslims groups provide electoral (and other kinds of) muscle for the progressives in exchange for their communities being tacitly exempt from progressive social and legal norms.

    Sher Singh mentioned it, but progressives used their influence to protect Muslim grooming and rape gangs for a couple of decades in exchange for the electoral and cultural support they brought to the British Labour Party.

    I used to think his posts were eccentric but A123 is probably just picking up on the same tendencies in the US.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @A123

    kind of ‘intersectional’ deal between Muslims and progressive

    Sher Singh mentioned it, but progressives used their influence to protect Muslim grooming and rape gangs for a couple of decades in exchange for the electoral and cultural support they brought to the British Labour Party.

    The Bacha Bazi of Afghanistan is not a result of ‘Westernization’. It existed long before Christianity got that far. When Pakis and Afghanis reach Europe, they behave as they did in their home countries. The difference is that they have easier prey. And, occasionally it is reported instead of being universally ignored.

    The Pakis in Rotherham displayed genuine Islamic behavior when they ran a grooming gang targeting underage girls. This is the same mind set that produced Balenciaga’s recent ad campaign with BDSM teddy bears.

    The deal is not ‘intersectional’, it is based on commonalities as of culture. One wing of SJW Islam wants to be open about the belief. The other wants to keep it underground. The core values are the same.

    I used to think his posts were eccentric but A123 is probably just picking up on the same tendencies in the US.

    Can you name a major U.S. elected Muslim official who is not a full SJW believer? Look at the personal practices of these leaders. It is chock full of unsavory behaviour, the most notable being Ilhan Omar’s relationship with her own brother.

    Every BLM event has their catch phrase emblazoned on multiple Pali flags. SJW Islam hates Judeo-Christian values here and abroad. A single, unified belief system is in play.

    Occasionally there are outlier exceptions, such as confrontations with school boards. Mehmet Oz is soft, but not an SJW. However, he lost. SJW Islam wanted the maximum activism that would accompany Fetterman.

    Though he should definitely confine that to “Euro-Islamic SJWism

    When writing, one needs clear shorthand that identifies the groups. Hopefully, the context of “SJW Islam” usage makes it clear that I am primarily focused on SJW Muslims who are an active threat to Judeo-Christians — primarily Europe, America, and parts of the MENA region.

    For Europe and America, the obvious move to stop the bleeding is the same. Bringing the number of new Muslim immigrants to zero.

    Ending permanent residence and sending them home is a solution picking up momentum in some Europe nations, such as Sweden. Citizens who have converted to SJW Islam is a much harder issue, and a particular difficulty for the U.S.

    PEACE 😇

  161. @silviosilver
    @Sher Singh


    Hinterland America
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phvpFNUx5Hg&t=44s

    Is that any worse than shitlibs keeping a straight face as they pretend a tranny is a real woman? At least shitlibs appeal to science to justify their values (they fail, but at least it's science they appeal to). Tongue speakers and faith healers, on the other hand...

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

    shitlibs keeping a straight face as they pretend a tranny is a real woman

    IMO, a man who thinks that he is a woman deserves the same treatment as a man thinking that he is Julius Caesar or Napoleon. Those who think that these men should be treated differently need to see the same psychiatrist.

  162. Have Western leaders thought through this latest move to cap the price of Russian oil and enforce it worldwide through Western insurance companies or is this going to hit us all again like a ton of bricks at the pump and the grocery stores?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    Have Western leaders thought through this latest move to cap the price of Russian oil and enforce it worldwide through Western insurance companies or is this going to hit us all again like a ton of bricks at the pump and the grocery stores?
     
    The latter is about to happen. Here is the view from The Economist:
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/11/30/the-wests-proposed-price-cap-on-russian-oil-is-no-magic-weapon

    Nothing new, though. The EU introduced umpteenth packet of sanctions against Russia. Net result: Russian cities shine at night like a Christmas tree in a rich house, whereas Europe in in darkness. Europe is preparing for worse times. Switzerland is even planning to ban EVs and limit the temperature at which you can launder your clothes to save electricity. As Russian saying puts it, that’s how you teach the fools.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikel

  163. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    This video clip from your favorite news service is not encouraging:

    https://youtu.be/_Z68txP3XCc

    Leads with "Russian" rather than "Soviet." A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge. Watching this may have changed my mind. Signs of good things coming from this are actually not looking very likely.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I’m going to reply to both comments #109 and #110, as they’re both related and very much a continuation of the same matter.

    I also feel that your definition of consensus is a bit unseemly, like something coined by a political scientist, or group of them.

    The definition was retrieved upon googling in for the definition of “consensus”, specifically within a portal answering the question “can “consensus” be quantified. It was somewhat coined probably by some political scientists (and other researchers) and based as a conglomerate term taken from 25 separate studies. It’s probably as good as any definition, for this is the kind of thing that political scientists do for a living. Why, do you have a better definition?

    I have observed some negative precedent about these types of narratives firsthand, and I think it’s pretty fair to say now that the negative effects have a geographic scope extending far beyond Germany at this point.

    I’d b interested in hearing more about what causes you some sort of fear on your part (at least some sort of anxiety) and how the German experience might negatively effect the Ukrainian one?

    Really, Germany has quite a lot of its own problems, without politicians pretending to be historians or take up some external moral narrative.

    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic (you do agree that it’s an important topic?) has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics, I’ll remain unsympathetic to your call for expediency. Also, you’ll have to admit that Germany and Ukraine, though not sharing borders, do indeed cohabit the same European space and therefore what is being done there is quite normal and should have been addressed much sooner. Better late than never.

    Leads with “Russian” rather than “Soviet.” A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge.

    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included. It’s the interpretation and underlying of the message expressed within that I find to be accurate and historical that should be weighed as to its relative value. As for the Green party’s input, I would consider this a case where a “most evil group” does a good thing, whereas not supporting the new German measures may very well be a case where “good people” for whatever reason do a bad thing.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included.
     
    It's a distortion though to view Holodomor purely or primarily through a national lens, the Soviet regime also waged war against peasants in Russia and against pastoralists in places like Kazakhstan. This is about weaponizing history (and by now it's pretty old history, virtually everyone involved is dead) for present-day purposes, not about getting at historical truth (insofar as that's ever possible).
    And anyway, I doubt these measures will do Ukraine much good given the current situation. I have to admit I'm always veering between thinking that Ukraine has no chance of outright defeating Russia or that there's a danger of a battle for Crimea leading to nuclear escalation...but right now the former looks more likely again, given how Russia seems to be able to demolish so much of Ukrainian infrastructure. I just hope people like MacGregor are full of shit and wrong in their claims that there'll be a major Russian ground offensive in the coming months.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    Why, do you have a better definition?
     
    I'd prefer a simple accounting of votes. That would be precise and neutral language.

    you do agree that it’s an important topic?
     
    I once had an idea that there be some yearlong class about communism, kind of a companion to Civics, which is supposed to be about explaining how the American system works. At least, I think it would fit comfortably in the k-12 system, which I am a critic of, if the fat were trimmed. Of course, the German system is different.

    But the tone of language doesn't seem about educating about the perils of communism. And I don't expect that the German system is even capable of acknowledging basic truths, about the history of communism, such as the membership roll of the communist party in the '30s, when the Holodomor was perpetrated.


    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics
     
    An obstacle to that is that they are a den of scoundrels, and I don't think highly of their abilities. The same could be said for the Irish parliament which had earlier approved similar measures.

    But philosophically a lot can be said for forms. How can these parliaments be good advocates for Ukrainians, when they are perpetually such poor advocates for their own people? I think that they should try to develop and keep a tradition of caring for their own people.

    They are both facing an immigration crisis, and an energy crisis. Ireland has a major housing crisis. Not a minor one. But a really major one. To some extent, my mother grew up in public housing - that is housing built to be affordable for families, under a nationalist system of looking out for your own people. That seems to be dead now, and, in all probably she would never have been born under the current system, which serves foreigners first, and is designed for single bugmen, nor any of her children or grandchildren.


    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included.
     
    these people are supposed to be journalists. They are supposed to be professional and unbiased and to know that Russia and the USSR were two different countries, with different political systems, but they are intentionally conflating them, in order to try to make the Holodomor a tool for bashing Russia, for avoiding any compromise or negotiation, however sensible, for unnecessarily killing tens of thousands of Slavs, or perhaps even more, by prolonging the conflict.

    I wouldn't say that they are friends of Ukraine, though they are probably narcissistic enough to think so.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  164. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I'm going to reply to both comments #109 and #110, as they're both related and very much a continuation of the same matter.


    I also feel that your definition of consensus is a bit unseemly, like something coined by a political scientist, or group of them.
     
    The definition was retrieved upon googling in for the definition of "consensus", specifically within a portal answering the question "can "consensus" be quantified. It was somewhat coined probably by some political scientists (and other researchers) and based as a conglomerate term taken from 25 separate studies. It's probably as good as any definition, for this is the kind of thing that political scientists do for a living. Why, do you have a better definition?

    I have observed some negative precedent about these types of narratives firsthand, and I think it’s pretty fair to say now that the negative effects have a geographic scope extending far beyond Germany at this point.
     
    I'd b interested in hearing more about what causes you some sort of fear on your part (at least some sort of anxiety) and how the German experience might negatively effect the Ukrainian one?

    Really, Germany has quite a lot of its own problems, without politicians pretending to be historians or take up some external moral narrative.
     
    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic (you do agree that it's an important topic?) has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics, I'll remain unsympathetic to your call for expediency. Also, you'll have to admit that Germany and Ukraine, though not sharing borders, do indeed cohabit the same European space and therefore what is being done there is quite normal and should have been addressed much sooner. Better late than never.

    Leads with “Russian” rather than “Soviet.” A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge.
     

    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you've included. It's the interpretation and underlying of the message expressed within that I find to be accurate and historical that should be weighed as to its relative value. As for the Green party's input, I would consider this a case where a "most evil group" does a good thing, whereas not supporting the new German measures may very well be a case where "good people" for whatever reason do a bad thing.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included.

    It’s a distortion though to view Holodomor purely or primarily through a national lens, the Soviet regime also waged war against peasants in Russia and against pastoralists in places like Kazakhstan. This is about weaponizing history (and by now it’s pretty old history, virtually everyone involved is dead) for present-day purposes, not about getting at historical truth (insofar as that’s ever possible).
    And anyway, I doubt these measures will do Ukraine much good given the current situation. I have to admit I’m always veering between thinking that Ukraine has no chance of outright defeating Russia or that there’s a danger of a battle for Crimea leading to nuclear escalation…but right now the former looks more likely again, given how Russia seems to be able to demolish so much of Ukrainian infrastructure. I just hope people like MacGregor are full of shit and wrong in their claims that there’ll be a major Russian ground offensive in the coming months.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    It’s a distortion though to view Holodomor purely or primarily through a national lens, the Soviet regime also waged war against peasants in Russia and against pastoralists in places like Kazakhstan.
     
    I could be wrong, however, I don't think that the destruction of the intelligentsia and the clergy of other countries within the Soviet Union, was nearly so drastic as within Ukraine. The similarities ended at the economic destruction of these countries, as the kremlin elites were very interested in collecting foodstuffs in order to sell these items to raise more money for more of their sordid plans. Otherwise, one could view these similar events in other countries as further examples of genocide. You couldn't possibly think that Lemkin made these accusations in the Ukrainian case of the Holodomor based on his inability to be objective and due to his myopic view seen through a "national lens", as he was himself a Polish Jew?

    but right now the former looks more likely again, given how Russia seems to be able to demolish so much of Ukrainian infrastructure.
     
    You're right about Russia's pernicious actions within Ukraine and the further destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure. Here are some current photos of the destruction of Bakhmut by Russian bombing, that's been fought over for several weeks now. Fortunately it's a small town, that has yet not been taken and indicates the slow motion of the Russian advance in the area:

    https://war.ukraine.ua/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/0f500000-0aff-0242-511c-08da496b55ac_w1597_n_st-1024x576.png
    Another school detroyed by Russian forces in Bakhmut. The price t pay for creating the new Russian World within Ukraine?

    https://amayei.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/2022/07/inbound6047821100701164335-780x470.jpg
    Bakkhmut, possibly another Russian "trophy" within Ukraine - looks a lot like Mariupol.,

    Replies: @German_reader

  165. @songbird
    Was Sajid Javid one of those candidates the inner Tory party foisted on some unenriched area?
    ______
    Many years ago, I recall seeing a fictional TV movie or miniseries about two Chinese brothers who had been involved in Tienanmen. They came to America as illegals, I think, and somehow became involved with the Triads.

    I remember this one scene which showed them voraciously eating eggs and rice to show how poor they were. Today, when a dozen eggs cost $7, instead of $1, they'd probably be catching bugs or strays or something.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    I suspect you’re referencing his clapback(“So what?”) to Nigel Farage complaining that London is becoming minority White.

    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn’t respond.

    Farage’s raising of the issue and his cowardly unwillingness to have the debate neatly sums up his entire career. Try to exploit nativist feelings but don’t lift a finger to seriously do anything about it. Say what you will about Sajid, but at least he is consistent. He’s always been open with his views. It’s Farage who is doing the bait and switch.

    I think one problem that modern culture has with the Chinese brothers living in poverty example you mentioned, is that they would undermine a core premise of modern ideology. Namely, that poverty condemns everyone to perpetual inequality.

    “Povertism” is not new, of course, but my impression is that its hold has only gotten stronger as the West has gotten more diverse. It is actually quite remarkable to study 2nd-gen Chinese-American social mobility in New York. Many of the kids who grew up in Chinatown did so under what we would consider very materially poor circumstances yet their educational and professional outcomes are mostly excellent.

    It’s one of those things that become ever-more inconvenient as time goes on and the sample size grows larger, and hence more irrefutable. So the “solution” is to in-before it by saying that even invoking them is a form of model minority myth-making, and hence inherently suspect and possibly racist. You can always count on conservative cowardice to enforce these leftist rules even as they bristle under them, because they dare not fundamentally question their underlying premise.

    [MORE]

    The tired “democrats are the real racists” actually has some validity to it. I think conservative Whites are probably the least racist people in the world. They foolishingly try to own the liberals by working under their own premises, which is typically a sign of a loser.

    A real opposition should always work under its own frame of reference, but very few conservatives in the West fundamentally disagree with the dominant liberal assumptions. They just try to own liberals by using liberal talking points.

    Sometimes I feel like we should just label them “low-tax liberals”.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    He’s always been open with his views.
     
    The Tories promised to reduce immigration (several times...), instead it has remained at the insanely high levels established under the New Labour regime, and even increased (iirc 40% of the 1st generation immigrants counted in the new census came in the last ten years, that is under Tory governments). Don't know about Javid (and don't care to look it up), but regarding the Tories more generally that's not exactly what I would call being "open" about one's intended policies.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @songbird
    @Thulean Friend


    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn’t respond.
     
    Farage has always been a gatekeeper, and been involved in trying to delegitimize the BNP, so one can't expect him to veer too much from establishment thinking, beyond limiting immigration.

    Seems pretty clear to me that Sajid Javid wasn't challenging Farage's approach though, so much as nakedly gloating. I just find that really remarkable. He could have privately gloated, but chose to publicly gloat. If he were Labor, that probably wouldn't be too much out of the ordinary, but the fact that he is a Tory, and is a member of this party which at least rhetorically many times has promised to limit immigration is pretty shocking. Though I understand he lost his seat recently.

    It is also kind of shocking because the Tories are really diversitarian. They are very much a civic nationalist, AA party, promoting women and non-Euros to be their public face, even in districts that are still fairly British. Anyway, I think it is pretty evident that this is not a winning strategy for Europeans and that it is impossible to win the loyalty of people like Javid by giving them anything.

    And beyond that, I'd say that I don't think that there is any level of muliculturalism that will work for Europeans. Any foreign group in Europe will predominantly be partisans for their own kind and for open borders and other policies that favor them, and will find any level of advocacy for Europeans extremely offensive.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  166. German_reader says:
    @Thulean Friend
    @songbird

    I suspect you're referencing his clapback("So what?") to Nigel Farage complaining that London is becoming minority White.

    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn't respond.

    Farage's raising of the issue and his cowardly unwillingness to have the debate neatly sums up his entire career. Try to exploit nativist feelings but don't lift a finger to seriously do anything about it. Say what you will about Sajid, but at least he is consistent. He's always been open with his views. It's Farage who is doing the bait and switch.

    ---


    I think one problem that modern culture has with the Chinese brothers living in poverty example you mentioned, is that they would undermine a core premise of modern ideology. Namely, that poverty condemns everyone to perpetual inequality.

    "Povertism" is not new, of course, but my impression is that its hold has only gotten stronger as the West has gotten more diverse. It is actually quite remarkable to study 2nd-gen Chinese-American social mobility in New York. Many of the kids who grew up in Chinatown did so under what we would consider very materially poor circumstances yet their educational and professional outcomes are mostly excellent.

    It's one of those things that become ever-more inconvenient as time goes on and the sample size grows larger, and hence more irrefutable. So the "solution" is to in-before it by saying that even invoking them is a form of model minority myth-making, and hence inherently suspect and possibly racist. You can always count on conservative cowardice to enforce these leftist rules even as they bristle under them, because they dare not fundamentally question their underlying premise.

    The tired "democrats are the real racists" actually has some validity to it. I think conservative Whites are probably the least racist people in the world. They foolishingly try to own the liberals by working under their own premises, which is typically a sign of a loser.

    A real opposition should always work under its own frame of reference, but very few conservatives in the West fundamentally disagree with the dominant liberal assumptions. They just try to own liberals by using liberal talking points.

    Sometimes I feel like we should just label them "low-tax liberals".

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    He’s always been open with his views.

    The Tories promised to reduce immigration (several times…), instead it has remained at the insanely high levels established under the New Labour regime, and even increased (iirc 40% of the 1st generation immigrants counted in the new census came in the last ten years, that is under Tory governments). Don’t know about Javid (and don’t care to look it up), but regarding the Tories more generally that’s not exactly what I would call being “open” about one’s intended policies.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader

    Promising to limit immigration isn't the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    It's Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction. AFAIK, Sajid has never done that.

    But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as "low-tax liberals" which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more "based" in his rhetoric. That's probably true of most European so-called "far-right populists", including Salvini.

    Replies: @German_reader, @silviosilver, @A123, @Yahya

  167. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    He’s always been open with his views.
     
    The Tories promised to reduce immigration (several times...), instead it has remained at the insanely high levels established under the New Labour regime, and even increased (iirc 40% of the 1st generation immigrants counted in the new census came in the last ten years, that is under Tory governments). Don't know about Javid (and don't care to look it up), but regarding the Tories more generally that's not exactly what I would call being "open" about one's intended policies.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Promising to limit immigration isn’t the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    It’s Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction. AFAIK, Sajid has never done that.

    But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as “low-tax liberals” which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more “based” in his rhetoric. That’s probably true of most European so-called “far-right populists”, including Salvini.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    It’s Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction.
     
    Unless I'm missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies, so I'm not sure what you think he should have done.
    I'm no fan of him myself btw.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @silviosilver
    @Thulean Friend


    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it?
     

    Promising to limit immigration isn’t the same as promising to keep Britain White.
     
    Ending (not merely "limiting") immigration would not of itself keep Britain white, but it's obviously a step in the right direction - possibly the only such step available - and would at least prevent (or delay) the same fate befalling all of Britain's cities.

    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome - that answer's the pajeet's "excellent question."

    What problem do you have with this?

    A straight answer, please.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @A123
    @Thulean Friend


    Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as “low-tax liberals” which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies.
     
    The UK is much where the U.S. was before MAGA.

    • Tories = MegaCorporations
    • Labour = Progressive
    • LibDem = Controlled Opposition -- The LibDem's exist to make Labour seem more credible.

    There is no credible party for traditional values, Christianity, and migration control.

    The UK system may be the worst possible combination. First Past the Post elections favor large/existing parties. As PM is not directly elected, a charismatic leader cannot breakthrough as a reformer.

    The Tories are going to be blown out badly. The internal schism could create opportunities for real change. Perhaps it can be reborn as Make England Great Again [MEGA]. However, the MegaCorporations will use their money behind the scenes to stop that. I am less than hopeful for the UK.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Yahya
    @Thulean Friend


    I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more “based” in his rhetoric. That’s probably true of most European so-called “far-right populists”, including Salvini
     
    PM Meloni seems to be earnest in her desire to stop the flow of migration into Italy. On the other hand, she did once say Italy should “repatriate migrants back to their countries and then sink the boats that rescued them”, but now in office she’s trying to offload incoming migrants to other European nations by redirecting vessels and signing “redistribution agreements” with countries like France. Members of her anti-migration party were said to have rejoiced when the Ocean Viking landed in France.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/giorgia-meloni-emmanuel-macron-italy-france-clash-migrant-ship-ocean-viking/

    It’s perhaps good for Italy in the short-run but a situation where European countries are trying to dump their problems on each other will lead to a bad outcome over the long run for everyone involved. I’m wondering what legal means Italy or other European nations with anti-migration governments have to disactivate NGOs who ferry migrants across the Med; and whether it is possible for unilateral action? Preventing migration at its source is definitely better than the pass-the-bomb around situation that currently prevails.


    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.
     
    What will your position be if ethnic Swedes constitute 30% or so of the Swedish population? Will you be content with such an outcome? Do you think you’ll still be able to live splendidly?

    (I ask in good faith. Your view is interesting and I admire your willingness to go against the current here; no doubt some commenters here are sharpening their knives at you, and the passive-aggressive ones like ‘S’ squirming in their chairs right now.)

    Replies: @A123

  168. German_reader says:
    @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader

    Promising to limit immigration isn't the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    It's Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction. AFAIK, Sajid has never done that.

    But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as "low-tax liberals" which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more "based" in his rhetoric. That's probably true of most European so-called "far-right populists", including Salvini.

    Replies: @German_reader, @silviosilver, @A123, @Yahya

    It’s Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction.

    Unless I’m missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies, so I’m not sure what you think he should have done.
    I’m no fan of him myself btw.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    Unless I’m missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies
     
    Is this your actual argument? If that's the case, then opposition politicians could never propose anything when out of power. And it would also have made his entire Brexit campaign impossible because he wasn't in power then either. You're bending over backwards for him, which is bizarre given your claim of not liking him (I believe you when you say it).

    Farage is one of the most recognisable political figures in Britain. So when he openly laments London becoming less White - as direct a racial appeal as you can do in politics - a natural question becomes well, what do you propose? Or in the case of Sajid: "So what?".

    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the "far-right" in general. If you're going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Coconuts

  169. Here is an interesting sci-fi short film. Not Star Wars…

    PEACE 😇

  170. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader

    Promising to limit immigration isn't the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    It's Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction. AFAIK, Sajid has never done that.

    But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as "low-tax liberals" which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more "based" in his rhetoric. That's probably true of most European so-called "far-right populists", including Salvini.

    Replies: @German_reader, @silviosilver, @A123, @Yahya

    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it?

    Promising to limit immigration isn’t the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    Ending (not merely “limiting”) immigration would not of itself keep Britain white, but it’s obviously a step in the right direction – possibly the only such step available – and would at least prevent (or delay) the same fate befalling all of Britain’s cities.

    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome – that answer’s the pajeet’s “excellent question.”

    What problem do you have with this?

    A straight answer, please.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @silviosilver


    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome
     
    I value internal coherency in politics above all. Framing opposition to immigration based on racial terms is coherent, which Farage's waffling and bait-and-switch opportunism decisively is not. This becomes almost comical after he makes naked racial appeals and then backs away and flees from from them the moment he gets the tiniest amount of pushback. I hate cowardice.

    Of course, it is easy for you to say these things while being anonymous online. The real test is if you would say them in a public and professional setting. But I have no way of verifying that.

    What problem do you have with this?
     
    I have never hidden my dislike of racial nationalism, so this question surprises me a bit.

    My debate with Yevardian over assimiliation vs multi-culturalism is instructive here. I argued that assimiliationism is basically a form of "racist liberalism", trying to fit everyone into a White mold and hopelessly failing for most. You can't turn non-Whites into Whites and it is foolish to try.

    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.

    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian's assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn't just harmful to minorities. It's harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.

    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yevardian

  171. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    It’s Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction.
     
    Unless I'm missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies, so I'm not sure what you think he should have done.
    I'm no fan of him myself btw.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Unless I’m missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies

    Is this your actual argument? If that’s the case, then opposition politicians could never propose anything when out of power. And it would also have made his entire Brexit campaign impossible because he wasn’t in power then either. You’re bending over backwards for him, which is bizarre given your claim of not liking him (I believe you when you say it).

    Farage is one of the most recognisable political figures in Britain. So when he openly laments London becoming less White – as direct a racial appeal as you can do in politics – a natural question becomes well, what do you propose? Or in the case of Sajid: “So what?”.

    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the “far-right” in general. If you’re going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the “far-right” in general. If you’re going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.
     
    Ok, that's an argument I can agree with it. Certainly necessary to formulate a clear and consistent position, then stand by it and not cave in. Otherwise one accepts the framing of one's political opponents (or rather enemies?) which is constantly narrowing down the limits of what's still sayable. One needs to push against that and shift the boundaries of acceptable discourse. That's a tough balancing act though, always the risk of over-doing it, and given how rigged the playing field is in many Western societies, one also has to consider the threat of outright repression by the state.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @Coconuts
    @Thulean Friend


    So when he openly laments London becoming less White – as direct a racial appeal as you can do in politics – a natural question becomes well, what do you propose? Or in the case of Sajid: “So what?”.
     
    I guess people intuitively know what point Farage is making, the same way a lot of people could understand the importance of the ceremonies around the queen's funeral earlier in the year.

    It would have been surprising if he had openly articulated something like this to Javid:

    Nations are born from friendship but persist in existence through inheritance. The kingdom of England was founded by a group of families with the purpose of securing their continuation and posterity. After many generations successfully living and reproducing together those families have a special importance to each other, in some way they owe their survival to each other. When they are declining in number their remaining members may become worried.

    I think plenty of people get this, but they can't always explain it.
  172. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader

    Promising to limit immigration isn't the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    It's Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction. AFAIK, Sajid has never done that.

    But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as "low-tax liberals" which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more "based" in his rhetoric. That's probably true of most European so-called "far-right populists", including Salvini.

    Replies: @German_reader, @silviosilver, @A123, @Yahya

    Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as “low-tax liberals” which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies.

    The UK is much where the U.S. was before MAGA.

    • Tories = MegaCorporations
    • Labour = Progressive
    • LibDem = Controlled Opposition — The LibDem’s exist to make Labour seem more credible.

    There is no credible party for traditional values, Christianity, and migration control.

    The UK system may be the worst possible combination. First Past the Post elections favor large/existing parties. As PM is not directly elected, a charismatic leader cannot breakthrough as a reformer.

    The Tories are going to be blown out badly. The internal schism could create opportunities for real change. Perhaps it can be reborn as Make England Great Again [MEGA]. However, the MegaCorporations will use their money behind the scenes to stop that. I am less than hopeful for the UK.

    PEACE 😇

  173. German_reader says:
    @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    Unless I’m missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies
     
    Is this your actual argument? If that's the case, then opposition politicians could never propose anything when out of power. And it would also have made his entire Brexit campaign impossible because he wasn't in power then either. You're bending over backwards for him, which is bizarre given your claim of not liking him (I believe you when you say it).

    Farage is one of the most recognisable political figures in Britain. So when he openly laments London becoming less White - as direct a racial appeal as you can do in politics - a natural question becomes well, what do you propose? Or in the case of Sajid: "So what?".

    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the "far-right" in general. If you're going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Coconuts

    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the “far-right” in general. If you’re going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.

    Ok, that’s an argument I can agree with it. Certainly necessary to formulate a clear and consistent position, then stand by it and not cave in. Otherwise one accepts the framing of one’s political opponents (or rather enemies?) which is constantly narrowing down the limits of what’s still sayable. One needs to push against that and shift the boundaries of acceptable discourse. That’s a tough balancing act though, always the risk of over-doing it, and given how rigged the playing field is in many Western societies, one also has to consider the threat of outright repression by the state.

    • Agree: Coconuts, Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader

    Yes, it appears we can come to a rare form of agreement for once. Repression of speech is overwhelmingly directed at the right-wing and I am as close to a free-speech absolutist as you can find.

    The embrace of censorship against ideological enemies has alienated me from establishment liberalism, even if I find many of the arguments the dissident right makes to be unconvincing at an ideological level, I would never want to censor them.

  174. But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as “low-tax liberals” which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more “based” in his rhetoric. That’s probably true of most European so-called “far-right populists”, including Salvini.

    You are right, but imo its partly because the time isn’t right yet for a different more ‘third position’ version of the right to appear. It may be something that is in gestation.

    For example, I found Louise Perry’s book about the sexual revolution interesting because it involved critique of some fundamental liberal and progressive beliefs about the individual. I wondered if she was inspired in this by the commentator Mary Harrington (she is quoted in the acknowledgements).

    Harrington has been arguing for a while that liberalism has some inherent problems with parenthood, especially motherhood. Probably it is because the mother/child relationship can inspire thoughts like these:

    No description could be too explicit and no admiration too great for this spectacle of pure authority and this portrait of unambiguous hierarchy.

    Thus, and in no other way, the most rudimentary form of human society is established from the outset.

    Irl the situation is not at the stage where people are ready to make the necessary connections to move into radical conservative or traditionalist territory yet though, maybe it won’t happen. It is very unlikely Farage could lead a movement like this.

  175. @silviosilver
    @Thulean Friend


    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it?
     

    Promising to limit immigration isn’t the same as promising to keep Britain White.
     
    Ending (not merely "limiting") immigration would not of itself keep Britain white, but it's obviously a step in the right direction - possibly the only such step available - and would at least prevent (or delay) the same fate befalling all of Britain's cities.

    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome - that answer's the pajeet's "excellent question."

    What problem do you have with this?

    A straight answer, please.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome

    I value internal coherency in politics above all. Framing opposition to immigration based on racial terms is coherent, which Farage’s waffling and bait-and-switch opportunism decisively is not. This becomes almost comical after he makes naked racial appeals and then backs away and flees from from them the moment he gets the tiniest amount of pushback. I hate cowardice.

    Of course, it is easy for you to say these things while being anonymous online. The real test is if you would say them in a public and professional setting. But I have no way of verifying that.

    What problem do you have with this?

    I have never hidden my dislike of racial nationalism, so this question surprises me a bit.

    My debate with Yevardian over assimiliation vs multi-culturalism is instructive here. I argued that assimiliationism is basically a form of “racist liberalism”, trying to fit everyone into a White mold and hopelessly failing for most. You can’t turn non-Whites into Whites and it is foolish to try.

    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.

    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian’s assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn’t just harmful to minorities. It’s harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.

    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.
     
    Sounds like you're arguing for some kind of communitarianism, maybe even legally enshrined, but I don't see how this could be reconciled with "liberal democracy" as currently understood. It definitely clashes with notions of individual rights as the supreme good.
    Or with a welfare state for that matter. Here we're often talking about race, identity etc. in a fairly abstract way, but for a lot of people more prosaic economic considerations are much more important (and it's something that is partly behind my own resentments, as I will readily admit). Saying "we're all different, that's ok, everyone's valuable in his own way" sounds nice...but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your "genuine multiculturalism"?
    And anyway, I don't see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there'll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure "racial justice". A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it...and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it's of course a talking point copied from the US). There's no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    , @Yevardian
    @Thulean Friend


    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian’s assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn’t just harmful to minorities. It’s harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.
     
    The crucial distinction here is these people live under the same state, in the same cities, often in the same neighborhoods.
    Racial separatism is why national borders exist, and indeed was always the main justification for all ordinary people through history. Immigrants always assimilated to the places they moved in the past, with the exception of a few 'Rootless Cosmopolitans' (Jews, Parsis, Armenians) with strong international connections, usually because they were merchants. Or those unable to adapt simply due to lack of ability (dalit-descended gypsies, descendents of black slaves).
    Now with modern technology the threat of every new immigrant group forming a permanent aggreived minority is much greater. Those that don't accept or actively despise the value of the society that hosts them are cancers in the body politic and should be deported.

    Maintaining dozens of separate racio-cultural identies within the same country can only lead to resentment and dysfunctionality at best (Belgium) or unending communal violence and total political nepotism at worst.
    Lack of any overarching national identity or assimilation to one is why the Middle-East is such a hobbesian shithole, despite the averaged quality of people there not being noticeably worse than Europe. A racially divided caste society would be a dystopia for Europe.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Sher Singh

  176. @German_reader
    @Barbarossa


    The progressives won’t be satisfied without eventual assimilation
     
    How would they enforce that? I don't think they can plausibly threaten large Islamic family clans with taking away their children if they don't allow them to be taught the virtues of LBGQTI+. Cutting welfare might also be problematic. There's always the threat of communal riots in the background, at least in Western Europe with its large compact immigrant communities (somewhat different situation from the US where recent immigrants have a different socioeconomic profile, or don't seem very riot-prone in the case of Mexicans).
    There'll probably still be quite a bit of assimilation into the ruling "liberalism", but also large parallel societies organized according to rather different values.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    It’s not necessary to enforce it through overt means, since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity. Such Foederati, as Sher Singh would call them, are useful in eliminating and diluting what the progressives see as native Euro’s or American’s negative traits. However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred “vibrant” communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.

    Progressive technocrats are like the Borg, ultimately it is always going to come down to, “assimilate or die”.

    I think that the situation that Sher Singh and his Sikh brethren or Muslims will ultimately face is one similar to what has recently happened with Red America. The Republican electorate was shamelessly brainwashed and used for decades to enthusiastically forward a pro-corporate, anti-jobs, pro-security state, pro -American empire political agenda. All of these policies were actually undermining their position and once their usefulness was exhausted they have been cast aside to rot. Only now does the “Right” see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

    So if all the minorities want to try to play the system for gain they can try, but I think they will all be expected to kneel before a drag queen eventually. Once that realization fully hits it will probably be too late to really resist it with full strength.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Barbarossa


    since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity.
     
    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup? Sure, there are probably plenty of other Moroccans who are assimilated in many ways, living nice bourgeois lives, and maybe even hold the fashionable "progressive" views about acronym people. But others are outright hostile to the society surrounding them (and that hostility can take worse forms than just rioting, remember the Paris terrorist attacks a few years ago and their perpetrators from Molenbeek), even if they're already the 3rd generation living there. So I don't think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is (though it may be different in America, I don't know).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Only now does the “Right” see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

     

    What do you hope to achieve with your policy of highly vocal calls for "unilateral surrender"? If everyone believed you, what would be the outcome?

    Why not embrace the MAGA fight against global MegaCorporations? Even if it is too late, is that not the only morally correct choice? Giving up is akin to suicide.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.trumparea.com/_pics/2211/hopeless.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Coconuts
    @Barbarossa


    However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred “vibrant” communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.
     
    In Europe I am starting to doubt whether this will be possible. You can see in the UK that a lot of the bigger ethnic minority communities are becoming diasporas, closely connected to countries with much larger (and more youthful) populations. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are still bringing in wives/husbands from their homelands each generation. The fact they are minorities promotes higher levels of group solidarity, they seem to be retaining or reviving traditional religion/customs and afaik, still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.

    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives, but the latter may be just surrendering to new pressures and realities created by more youthful population groups.

    The things GR and Yevardian mentioned, the state trying to micro-manage things and failing due to advancing idiocracy and divided citizenry and the development of overtly communal politics don't seem like implausible possibilities for the future.

    I wonder now whether progressives and globalists had clear ideas of what they were doing when they started pursuing the mass-migration option in the 90s. Sometimes you see interviews with Tony Blair where it looks like he is aware he misjudged this one.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Barbarossa

  177. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the “far-right” in general. If you’re going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.
     
    Ok, that's an argument I can agree with it. Certainly necessary to formulate a clear and consistent position, then stand by it and not cave in. Otherwise one accepts the framing of one's political opponents (or rather enemies?) which is constantly narrowing down the limits of what's still sayable. One needs to push against that and shift the boundaries of acceptable discourse. That's a tough balancing act though, always the risk of over-doing it, and given how rigged the playing field is in many Western societies, one also has to consider the threat of outright repression by the state.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Yes, it appears we can come to a rare form of agreement for once. Repression of speech is overwhelmingly directed at the right-wing and I am as close to a free-speech absolutist as you can find.

    The embrace of censorship against ideological enemies has alienated me from establishment liberalism, even if I find many of the arguments the dissident right makes to be unconvincing at an ideological level, I would never want to censor them.

  178. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader

    Promising to limit immigration isn't the same as promising to keep Britain White.

    It's Farage who has been flirting with White nationalist sentiments but never actually doing anything concrete in that direction. AFAIK, Sajid has never done that.

    But your broader point is correct, namely that Tories have been useless on immigration. Hence my wish to rebrand conservatives in the West as "low-tax liberals" which I find is a better descriptor of their actual policies. I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more "based" in his rhetoric. That's probably true of most European so-called "far-right populists", including Salvini.

    Replies: @German_reader, @silviosilver, @A123, @Yahya

    I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more “based” in his rhetoric. That’s probably true of most European so-called “far-right populists”, including Salvini

    PM Meloni seems to be earnest in her desire to stop the flow of migration into Italy. On the other hand, she did once say Italy should “repatriate migrants back to their countries and then sink the boats that rescued them”, but now in office she’s trying to offload incoming migrants to other European nations by redirecting vessels and signing “redistribution agreements” with countries like France. Members of her anti-migration party were said to have rejoiced when the Ocean Viking landed in France.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/giorgia-meloni-emmanuel-macron-italy-france-clash-migrant-ship-ocean-viking/

    It’s perhaps good for Italy in the short-run but a situation where European countries are trying to dump their problems on each other will lead to a bad outcome over the long run for everyone involved. I’m wondering what legal means Italy or other European nations with anti-migration governments have to disactivate NGOs who ferry migrants across the Med; and whether it is possible for unilateral action? Preventing migration at its source is definitely better than the pass-the-bomb around situation that currently prevails.

    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.

    What will your position be if ethnic Swedes constitute 30% or so of the Swedish population? Will you be content with such an outcome? Do you think you’ll still be able to live splendidly?

    (I ask in good faith. Your view is interesting and I admire your willingness to go against the current here; no doubt some commenters here are sharpening their knives at you, and the passive-aggressive ones like ‘S’ squirming in their chairs right now.)

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yahya


    PM Meloni seems to be earnest in her desire to stop the flow of migration into Italy. ... now in office she’s trying to offload incoming migrants to other European nations by redirecting vessels and signing “redistribution agreements” with countries like France.
    ...
    It’s perhaps good for Italy in the short-run but a situation where European countries are trying to dump their problems on each other will lead to a bad outcome over the long run for everyone involved.
     
    The EU exists. Until it is dissolved, Meloni is working in that framework. She is forcing members creating the issue to take the migrants & burden.

    It is similar to what Abbot and DeSantis are doing in the U.S. NYC, Chicago, and other Blue cities are receiving huge hits to their budgets. Inflicting costs on already struggling Leftoid European city governments will sap their will.

    On the other hand, she did once say Italy should “repatriate migrants back to their countries and then sink the boats that rescued them”
     
    Meloni can return to this later if/when needed. It's always good to have a contingency option when negotiating.

    Leading with scuttling a German flagged vessel could easily cause the "authoritarian liberal" enemies to close ranks. Separating the most egregious open borders crazies from their less committed brethren is much more vital to the future versus a single, partial boat load of invaders today.

    ===============================
    “When strong, avoid them.
    If of high morale, depress them.
    Seem humble to fill them with conceit.
    If at ease, exhaust them.
    If united, separate them.
    Attack their weaknesses.
    Emerge to their surprise.”

    The Art of War, Sun Tzu
    ===============================

    Preventing migration at its source is definitely better than the pass-the-bomb around situation that currently prevails.
     
    Preventing the lures that draw migration is also essential. No job, no safety net, expedited expulsion if caught.

    I, and others, advocate for containment processing facilities somewhere in Africa. 100% of all MENA origin, non-Christian illegals & refugees would be immediately sent & kept there. They would not legally enter the EU until their claim is approved. A separate facility would be created elsewhere for Christian illegals & refugees.

    PEACE 😇
  179. @Thulean Friend
    @songbird

    I suspect you're referencing his clapback("So what?") to Nigel Farage complaining that London is becoming minority White.

    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn't respond.

    Farage's raising of the issue and his cowardly unwillingness to have the debate neatly sums up his entire career. Try to exploit nativist feelings but don't lift a finger to seriously do anything about it. Say what you will about Sajid, but at least he is consistent. He's always been open with his views. It's Farage who is doing the bait and switch.

    ---


    I think one problem that modern culture has with the Chinese brothers living in poverty example you mentioned, is that they would undermine a core premise of modern ideology. Namely, that poverty condemns everyone to perpetual inequality.

    "Povertism" is not new, of course, but my impression is that its hold has only gotten stronger as the West has gotten more diverse. It is actually quite remarkable to study 2nd-gen Chinese-American social mobility in New York. Many of the kids who grew up in Chinatown did so under what we would consider very materially poor circumstances yet their educational and professional outcomes are mostly excellent.

    It's one of those things that become ever-more inconvenient as time goes on and the sample size grows larger, and hence more irrefutable. So the "solution" is to in-before it by saying that even invoking them is a form of model minority myth-making, and hence inherently suspect and possibly racist. You can always count on conservative cowardice to enforce these leftist rules even as they bristle under them, because they dare not fundamentally question their underlying premise.

    The tired "democrats are the real racists" actually has some validity to it. I think conservative Whites are probably the least racist people in the world. They foolishingly try to own the liberals by working under their own premises, which is typically a sign of a loser.

    A real opposition should always work under its own frame of reference, but very few conservatives in the West fundamentally disagree with the dominant liberal assumptions. They just try to own liberals by using liberal talking points.

    Sometimes I feel like we should just label them "low-tax liberals".

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn’t respond.

    Farage has always been a gatekeeper, and been involved in trying to delegitimize the BNP, so one can’t expect him to veer too much from establishment thinking, beyond limiting immigration.

    Seems pretty clear to me that Sajid Javid wasn’t challenging Farage’s approach though, so much as nakedly gloating. I just find that really remarkable. He could have privately gloated, but chose to publicly gloat. If he were Labor, that probably wouldn’t be too much out of the ordinary, but the fact that he is a Tory, and is a member of this party which at least rhetorically many times has promised to limit immigration is pretty shocking. Though I understand he lost his seat recently.

    It is also kind of shocking because the Tories are really diversitarian. They are very much a civic nationalist, AA party, promoting women and non-Euros to be their public face, even in districts that are still fairly British. Anyway, I think it is pretty evident that this is not a winning strategy for Europeans and that it is impossible to win the loyalty of people like Javid by giving them anything.

    And beyond that, I’d say that I don’t think that there is any level of muliculturalism that will work for Europeans. Any foreign group in Europe will predominantly be partisans for their own kind and for open borders and other policies that favor them, and will find any level of advocacy for Europeans extremely offensive.

    • Agree: Matra, Sher Singh
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @songbird


    Seems pretty clear to me that Sajid Javid wasn’t challenging Farage’s approach though, so much as nakedly gloating. I just find that really remarkable.
     
    It's not so clear to me that gloating was the primary motive. I think it was more likely an attempt to get Farage to say something "racist," both as part of the broader cultural struggle against "racism," and in order to establish that "this is not who we are" regarding the identity of the conservative party. That latter struggle has been taking place for decades, not just in Britain but all across the western world.

    It's not exactly a secret. There was an ABC (Australia) documentary called "The Liberals" (the conservative party here) filmed in the early 90s, tracing its development since WWII. One segment featured the then current premier of New South Wales, Nick Greiner, talking about the need to "modernize" the party and get rid of the older Anglo-Saxon bigot types - he said it all very casually and with a laugh, as though it were the most obvious thing in the world, kinda like "hehe, yeah, we've been tolerating them in our ranks for a long while, but it's time for them to go, you know". (Yeah, if you're wondering, Early Life puts him at a quarter Jew.) The Javid comment is just the most recent example of this contest.
  180. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    Unless I’m missing something, Farage has never been in government and therefore has never had the power to actually shape immigration policies
     
    Is this your actual argument? If that's the case, then opposition politicians could never propose anything when out of power. And it would also have made his entire Brexit campaign impossible because he wasn't in power then either. You're bending over backwards for him, which is bizarre given your claim of not liking him (I believe you when you say it).

    Farage is one of the most recognisable political figures in Britain. So when he openly laments London becoming less White - as direct a racial appeal as you can do in politics - a natural question becomes well, what do you propose? Or in the case of Sajid: "So what?".

    Farage ran away from that debate as he always does. So why does he even begin it? This is what I mean when I talk about cowardly conservatives and even most of the "far-right" in general. If you're going to engage in racial appeals, you better have an answer when the pushback invariably comes. Yet 99.99% of them always run away and Farage is no different.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Coconuts

    So when he openly laments London becoming less White – as direct a racial appeal as you can do in politics – a natural question becomes well, what do you propose? Or in the case of Sajid: “So what?”.

    I guess people intuitively know what point Farage is making, the same way a lot of people could understand the importance of the ceremonies around the queen’s funeral earlier in the year.

    It would have been surprising if he had openly articulated something like this to Javid:

    Nations are born from friendship but persist in existence through inheritance. The kingdom of England was founded by a group of families with the purpose of securing their continuation and posterity. After many generations successfully living and reproducing together those families have a special importance to each other, in some way they owe their survival to each other. When they are declining in number their remaining members may become worried.

    I think plenty of people get this, but they can’t always explain it.

  181. German_reader says:
    @Thulean Friend
    @silviosilver


    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome
     
    I value internal coherency in politics above all. Framing opposition to immigration based on racial terms is coherent, which Farage's waffling and bait-and-switch opportunism decisively is not. This becomes almost comical after he makes naked racial appeals and then backs away and flees from from them the moment he gets the tiniest amount of pushback. I hate cowardice.

    Of course, it is easy for you to say these things while being anonymous online. The real test is if you would say them in a public and professional setting. But I have no way of verifying that.

    What problem do you have with this?
     
    I have never hidden my dislike of racial nationalism, so this question surprises me a bit.

    My debate with Yevardian over assimiliation vs multi-culturalism is instructive here. I argued that assimiliationism is basically a form of "racist liberalism", trying to fit everyone into a White mold and hopelessly failing for most. You can't turn non-Whites into Whites and it is foolish to try.

    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.

    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian's assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn't just harmful to minorities. It's harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.

    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yevardian

    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.

    Sounds like you’re arguing for some kind of communitarianism, maybe even legally enshrined, but I don’t see how this could be reconciled with “liberal democracy” as currently understood. It definitely clashes with notions of individual rights as the supreme good.
    Or with a welfare state for that matter. Here we’re often talking about race, identity etc. in a fairly abstract way, but for a lot of people more prosaic economic considerations are much more important (and it’s something that is partly behind my own resentments, as I will readily admit). Saying “we’re all different, that’s ok, everyone’s valuable in his own way” sounds nice…but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your “genuine multiculturalism”?
    And anyway, I don’t see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there’ll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure “racial justice”. A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it…and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it’s of course a talking point copied from the US). There’s no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your “genuine multiculturalism”?
     
    I've been quite open about favoring a fairly cognitive elitist immigration policy. Europe has run a poor immigration policy, but that was never inevitable nor is it going forward. The people already let in are a problem, but even if we assume that all those who came magically went home tomorrow, we'd still be stuck with wide disparities even within the same ethnic group. I've referenced Gregory Clark's research on Swedish (non-existing) social mobility, including during the heyday of socialism.

    In other words, this problem persists even in homogeneous societies. I will concede that race probably makes the optics problem worse rather than if everyone looked the same, but if the end effect is similar, does it really matter? South Africa has had God knows how many affirmative action campaigns. Racial disparities have not only stayed the same, they've gotten worse since the fall of Apartheid. So even if the entire government tries its best, it doesn't seem to make much of an impact.

    I don’t see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there’ll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure “racial justice”.
     

    I've partially answered this above, but there's another factor at play here.

    If the world had a stagnating science output, I'd concede that this is a risk. But the progress in AI and in genomics is now incredibly rapid. Clearing up old crimes have now gotten dramatically easier through innovative new genomics firms like Othram. Embyro-screening is only going to rise.

    If you actually read experts in the field, all of them essentially agree that we will get an eugenics program, even if we will call it something else for optics reasons. Indeed, it's already happening at the margins.

    I think a lot of people, even on the right, underestimate how this will up-end the social theories that underpin the Western world. Most of these theories pre-supposes a future that looks very similar to the one we had in the postwar era, except for cleaner cars and a few computer gadgets. If that was the case, these theories make rational sense. But if that's not the future that we will get, it's a cardinal error.

    To be clear, what we're seeing now is different from when brilliant scholars like Hans Eysenck began to catalogue and document racial differences. There were no tools to do anything about it. It was pure observation. So it was easier to ban it because governments could not remedy the differences.

    But what happens when you can change a child's chance of getting certain diseases (already a reality today) or raise her intelligence (imminent)? Clinging onto blank-slatism in this environment will be impossible.

    Very few parents, I suspect, will want to give their kids a lifetime disadvantage if it affords them to virtue-signal. Right-wingers may think this, but if you look at white flight patterns of white liberals then they are not much different. The main difference is that white liberals lie more, including to themselves, but ultimately don't behave much different from white conservatives. I see it everyday in my own circle.

    What's true for individuals will inexorably be valid for groups. Yet I suspect the racial divide will get blurred, as rich Third World elites will ensure their kids get a bigger boost than e.g. poor whites.

    A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it…and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it’s of course a talking point copied from the US). There’s no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.
     

    Yes, but opportunists like these exist everywhere. Misogyny is a real problem, but that doesn't prevent some women from filing false rape charges to damage a male rival at a job. Spreading malicious rumors happens even in mostly male environments. It's what humans do. Race is just another vector. If it wasn't available, these folks would find another. I think a common fallacy is to assume that absent race, these problems would go away. I think they'd just take on another shape, but the basic motivation would remain the same (personal enrichment at the cost of someone else).

    As someone who has at times amused myself reading "dissident right" commentary on the internet, I can personally vouch that the amount of back-biting, false rumors and smear campaigns among self-described "fashy right-wingers" will give even the most gossipy old aunt a run for her money. It's also very entertaining to read, but that's a different story. To me, this argument that race introduces a grifting problem seems to be among the weakest. Humans will find a way and they don't need race for it.

    Steve Hsu has written and spoken about the genomic revolution extensively.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/steve-hsu-intelligence-embryo-selection-the-future/id1516093381?i=1000577056223

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

  182. @German_reader
    @songbird


    The ultimate question, IMO, is whether these competing genocide narratives cut into the omnipotence of the WW2 foundational myth of the modern West.
     
    They're probably just going to reinforce it, the only difference will be that the Soviets (meaning Russians collectively) are also cast as villains, the Tim Snyder view of history. I've also noticed that the claims about German depravity seem to be getting more outlandish with increasing distance of time, there are now African and Arab MPs in Germany who on 8 May tweet things like "the Nazi regime caused 75 million deaths", which just seems like a bizarrely inflated number, even if you count the entire Pacific war. The subtext is of course clear enough, there will be no absolution ever, and that history will be used by recent immigrants (without personal connection to WW2) as a weapon against ethnic Germans.
    Ireland's recent development is very strange and disturbing to me, seems crazy that the pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland's history.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya, @Barbarossa, @Matra

    The Irish Republican narrative that was developed during the 60s and 70s is based on anti-colonialism. They took the parts of the 1916 Rising that they liked but jettisoned the Catholicism and exclusive nationalism of the fallen. The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association, which protested supposed discrimination against Catholics eventually leading to the Troubles, was based on the black civil rights protests in the US. They even sang the same song, We Shall Overcome. IRA activist Bernadette Devlin preferred hanging round the leaders of the Black Panthers than Irish Americans during her fundraising trips. (Supposedly she gave the BPs some of the money raised for the IRA). No country was more hostile to Apartheid South Africa than Ireland and today they are probably the most hostile to Israel for anti-colonialist reasons. No Spanish football team can visit Ireland or Glasgow – big Irish community – without being greeted with Catalan and Basque independence flags as Sinn Fein claims Spain is a colonialist state. In 1990 on my first ever trip to the Republican stronghold the Falls Road in West Belfast I saw a huge wall mural dedicated to Nelson Mandela. Today there must be more George Floyd murals in Catholic parts of N Ireland than anywhere else in the world. It’s not an exaggeration to say that Irish Republicans identify more with anti-colonial and anti-racist struggles around the world than with Europeans, hence that scene in The Commitments where the fan of black American music says the Irish are the blacks of Europe. This is a serious problem for genuine Irish nationalists who are protesting against migrants, mostly black Africans, as it means not only going up against the usual leftists but also the country’s own nationalist narrative and self-image.

    BTW try getting a reasonably priced hotel room in Dublin these days as I’ve been trying to do this week. Over 30% of all rooms available in the Republic are occupied by migrants. The place I stayed in in 2019 is now over three times the price I paid then and it’s fully booked for months in advance. Most of these migrants are men.

    • Thanks: German_reader
  183. @Thulean Friend
    @silviosilver


    Ending immigration concedes that racial diversity is not a strength to celebrate but an obstacle to overcome
     
    I value internal coherency in politics above all. Framing opposition to immigration based on racial terms is coherent, which Farage's waffling and bait-and-switch opportunism decisively is not. This becomes almost comical after he makes naked racial appeals and then backs away and flees from from them the moment he gets the tiniest amount of pushback. I hate cowardice.

    Of course, it is easy for you to say these things while being anonymous online. The real test is if you would say them in a public and professional setting. But I have no way of verifying that.

    What problem do you have with this?
     
    I have never hidden my dislike of racial nationalism, so this question surprises me a bit.

    My debate with Yevardian over assimiliation vs multi-culturalism is instructive here. I argued that assimiliationism is basically a form of "racist liberalism", trying to fit everyone into a White mold and hopelessly failing for most. You can't turn non-Whites into Whites and it is foolish to try.

    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.

    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian's assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn't just harmful to minorities. It's harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.

    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yevardian

    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian’s assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn’t just harmful to minorities. It’s harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.

    The crucial distinction here is these people live under the same state, in the same cities, often in the same neighborhoods.
    Racial separatism is why national borders exist, and indeed was always the main justification for all ordinary people through history. Immigrants always assimilated to the places they moved in the past, with the exception of a few ‘Rootless Cosmopolitans’ (Jews, Parsis, Armenians) with strong international connections, usually because they were merchants. Or those unable to adapt simply due to lack of ability (dalit-descended gypsies, descendents of black slaves).
    Now with modern technology the threat of every new immigrant group forming a permanent aggreived minority is much greater. Those that don’t accept or actively despise the value of the society that hosts them are cancers in the body politic and should be deported.

    Maintaining dozens of separate racio-cultural identies within the same country can only lead to resentment and dysfunctionality at best (Belgium) or unending communal violence and total political nepotism at worst.
    Lack of any overarching national identity or assimilation to one is why the Middle-East is such a hobbesian shithole, despite the averaged quality of people there not being noticeably worse than Europe. A racially divided caste society would be a dystopia for Europe.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Yevardian

    Actually, I don't think my point even has to be made, especially here. Just look at Our Benefactor's work regarding Latinos in the United States.


    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup?
     
    Obviously the vast majority should never have been accepted to Belgium in the first place, but I think everyone here agrees on that anyway. But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    , @Sher Singh
    @Yevardian


    Assimilation needs a material & legal incentive - neither exists.
    Factory jobs don't support households,
    Ethnically politicked corporate jobs do.

    Assimilation to a house + lawn may make sense.
    The Kardashians don't, and they made you White.
    The path to whiteness for browns is nigger-loving.

    You're correct that the internet + airlines impede assimilation.
     

    --------------------------
    @barbarossa

    By foederati I include an eventual military element.
    Within 6 months of the convoy where white cops refused to act,
    The Canadian gov opened military positions to non-citizens.
    The Liberal state loses legitimacy + capability despite harsher rhetoric.
    Material strength & loyalty really.
     

    Not in the business of making predictions, but a few points stand out.

    1. Assimilation doesn't remove clannish criminality, only its political utility.
    2. The libs may want immigrants to bend the knee, but they may not.

    The Right ultimately crumbled because its elite was granted upward mobility.
    Carrot + Stick. Either the carrot's big enough or you fall to the stick.
    The Southern Middle Class was given positions in the MIC before de-segregation hit.
     


    The prosperity to buy off the entire MENA + Subcon elite doesn't exist.
    When it did, like before the 70s you saw women with skirts in Kabul & Tehran.

    Karlin often comments that tech transfer needs a capable recipient.
    Same with legal backing ie nerdy blacks won't beat you for saying nigger.
    Singhs are mobilizing, but even the farmer's protest felt hollow till the Red Fort attack.
     

    Basically, I don't know but check the infographics below more for white lib stats:


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1048692113178632303/image.png

    https://occidentaldissent.com/2022/12/01/nowhiteguilt-responds-to-counter-currents/


    Older stats on that site showed Asian cons were 9% ethno-centric vs like 15 for Asian libs.
    Asian cons being white-washed cucks checks out.
     
    Assimilation can decrease over generations as the community establishes institutions.
    Diaspora won't be like the homeland, but it can be politically useful like Ukr-Canadians.

    Liberals went ultra-woke due to Obamaphones + Trump. Who knows where next?

  184. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    She is not too smart but probably triple-digits on a good day.
     
    She said so many stupid things on camera, things that only a hopeless ignoramus might say, that she can even compete with Biden. Answering a question where Germany will get electricity, she said “from the power lines we already have”. Hearing complains that there isn’t enough electricity in Germany she retorted that Germany has enough electric outlets for every resident. Recently she said that there are countries that are 100,000 kilometers from Germany. So, her knowledge of geography equals her knowledge of physics.

    She’d be a perfect bartender: no brains, decent looks, big boobs. Drunk male customers would tip her handsomely. But I’d make a better Pope than she a foreign minister (or any minister, for that matter). Tuvalu would be ashamed to have a minister like that.

    Replies: @songbird, @Beckow

    Bartendress Annalena in a dim light, noisy music, few drinks, sure she would do well on tips. And no talk of physics or geography.

    But I still think she climbs over 100 – we make a mistake assigning real smarts to the 100-110 band, they are competent, functional, their brain cells move, they simply lack education and critical thinking.

    Baerbock was probably fast-tracked as a ‘girl with potential‘, never challenged and never forced to learn anything hard – like understanding the mysterious magic of electric outlets – it is not all her fault. These people rule us, or are the favorite group to stick up front by the people who do, but they generally make no decisions. Baerbock knows that she should push the war and downplay any consequences – Biden is the same. When the war will be lost and the consequences too dire, they will be quietly replaced.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    When the war will be lost and the consequences too dire, they will be quietly replaced.
     
    That’s the beauty of having rulers hidden and figureheads displayed to the gullible public. You can make them scapegoats and replace disposable nonentities without damaging your power or being accountable for your blunders.
  185. German_reader says:
    @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    It's not necessary to enforce it through overt means, since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity. Such Foederati, as Sher Singh would call them, are useful in eliminating and diluting what the progressives see as native Euro's or American's negative traits. However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred "vibrant" communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.

    Progressive technocrats are like the Borg, ultimately it is always going to come down to, "assimilate or die".

    I think that the situation that Sher Singh and his Sikh brethren or Muslims will ultimately face is one similar to what has recently happened with Red America. The Republican electorate was shamelessly brainwashed and used for decades to enthusiastically forward a pro-corporate, anti-jobs, pro-security state, pro -American empire political agenda. All of these policies were actually undermining their position and once their usefulness was exhausted they have been cast aside to rot. Only now does the "Right" see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

    So if all the minorities want to try to play the system for gain they can try, but I think they will all be expected to kneel before a drag queen eventually. Once that realization fully hits it will probably be too late to really resist it with full strength.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Coconuts

    since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity.

    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup? Sure, there are probably plenty of other Moroccans who are assimilated in many ways, living nice bourgeois lives, and maybe even hold the fashionable “progressive” views about acronym people. But others are outright hostile to the society surrounding them (and that hostility can take worse forms than just rioting, remember the Paris terrorist attacks a few years ago and their perpetrators from Molenbeek), even if they’re already the 3rd generation living there. So I don’t think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is (though it may be different in America, I don’t know).

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I don’t think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is
     
    Assimilation is anything but inevitable. Actually, Jews (often mentioned on this site) are an instructive example: they maintained their separate identity for centuries.

    One of my (Jewish) friends proposed an interesting theory. He said that Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation. Are Muslim customs idiotic enough for that purpose?

    Replies: @Beckow, @A123

  186. @Yevardian
    @Thulean Friend


    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian’s assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn’t just harmful to minorities. It’s harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.
     
    The crucial distinction here is these people live under the same state, in the same cities, often in the same neighborhoods.
    Racial separatism is why national borders exist, and indeed was always the main justification for all ordinary people through history. Immigrants always assimilated to the places they moved in the past, with the exception of a few 'Rootless Cosmopolitans' (Jews, Parsis, Armenians) with strong international connections, usually because they were merchants. Or those unable to adapt simply due to lack of ability (dalit-descended gypsies, descendents of black slaves).
    Now with modern technology the threat of every new immigrant group forming a permanent aggreived minority is much greater. Those that don't accept or actively despise the value of the society that hosts them are cancers in the body politic and should be deported.

    Maintaining dozens of separate racio-cultural identies within the same country can only lead to resentment and dysfunctionality at best (Belgium) or unending communal violence and total political nepotism at worst.
    Lack of any overarching national identity or assimilation to one is why the Middle-East is such a hobbesian shithole, despite the averaged quality of people there not being noticeably worse than Europe. A racially divided caste society would be a dystopia for Europe.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Sher Singh

    Actually, I don’t think my point even has to be made, especially here. Just look at Our Benefactor’s work regarding Latinos in the United States.

    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup?

    Obviously the vast majority should never have been accepted to Belgium in the first place, but I think everyone here agrees on that anyway. But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    Just look at Our Benefactor’s work regarding Latinos in the United States.
     
    Not sure I'm getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).

    But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.
     
    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @AnonfromTN

    , @songbird
    @Yevardian


    But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.
     
    Gypsies have been in Romania for about 600 years, though many came into the 17th century.
  187. @songbird
    @Thulean Friend


    His question is actually excellent. What exactly is Farage proposing to do done about it? Predictably, Farage didn’t respond.
     
    Farage has always been a gatekeeper, and been involved in trying to delegitimize the BNP, so one can't expect him to veer too much from establishment thinking, beyond limiting immigration.

    Seems pretty clear to me that Sajid Javid wasn't challenging Farage's approach though, so much as nakedly gloating. I just find that really remarkable. He could have privately gloated, but chose to publicly gloat. If he were Labor, that probably wouldn't be too much out of the ordinary, but the fact that he is a Tory, and is a member of this party which at least rhetorically many times has promised to limit immigration is pretty shocking. Though I understand he lost his seat recently.

    It is also kind of shocking because the Tories are really diversitarian. They are very much a civic nationalist, AA party, promoting women and non-Euros to be their public face, even in districts that are still fairly British. Anyway, I think it is pretty evident that this is not a winning strategy for Europeans and that it is impossible to win the loyalty of people like Javid by giving them anything.

    And beyond that, I'd say that I don't think that there is any level of muliculturalism that will work for Europeans. Any foreign group in Europe will predominantly be partisans for their own kind and for open borders and other policies that favor them, and will find any level of advocacy for Europeans extremely offensive.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Seems pretty clear to me that Sajid Javid wasn’t challenging Farage’s approach though, so much as nakedly gloating. I just find that really remarkable.

    It’s not so clear to me that gloating was the primary motive. I think it was more likely an attempt to get Farage to say something “racist,” both as part of the broader cultural struggle against “racism,” and in order to establish that “this is not who we are” regarding the identity of the conservative party. That latter struggle has been taking place for decades, not just in Britain but all across the western world.

    It’s not exactly a secret. There was an ABC (Australia) documentary called “The Liberals” (the conservative party here) filmed in the early 90s, tracing its development since WWII. One segment featured the then current premier of New South Wales, Nick Greiner, talking about the need to “modernize” the party and get rid of the older Anglo-Saxon bigot types – he said it all very casually and with a laugh, as though it were the most obvious thing in the world, kinda like “hehe, yeah, we’ve been tolerating them in our ranks for a long while, but it’s time for them to go, you know”. (Yeah, if you’re wondering, Early Life puts him at a quarter Jew.) The Javid comment is just the most recent example of this contest.

    • Thanks: songbird
  188. German_reader says:
    @Yevardian
    @Yevardian

    Actually, I don't think my point even has to be made, especially here. Just look at Our Benefactor's work regarding Latinos in the United States.


    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup?
     
    Obviously the vast majority should never have been accepted to Belgium in the first place, but I think everyone here agrees on that anyway. But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Just look at Our Benefactor’s work regarding Latinos in the United States.

    Not sure I’m getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).

    But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.

    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    Not sure I’m getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).
     
    I mean the 'multicultural' faction was decisively defeated by the 'assimilationist' one during California's debate over bilingual education. There likely would have been calamitous national consequences if things there went differently.

    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.
     
    Well I'm just speaking in hypotheticals in terms of Belgium, or any other distant place. If anyone emigrated from Pakistan to England in the past, they obviously couldn't maintain any communication with their homeland, let alone regularly jet-set back and forth to have their daughters private parts mutilated by 'surgeons' so they could honourably marry their cousins in the name of their sick and retarded religion and culture.
    Obviously Spain and Morocco were and are bordering countries, so that's different.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader

    OT (if you can be OT in an open thread)
    I was told that this is a German joke. I am curious whether it actually is German:

    A German boy asks his father
    - Why is it so cold and so dark?
    - Because Russia invaded Ukraine, and European Union sanctioned Russia, to make Russians suffer.
    - Are we Russians?

    Replies: @German_reader

  189. @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    Just look at Our Benefactor’s work regarding Latinos in the United States.
     
    Not sure I'm getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).

    But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.
     
    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @AnonfromTN

    Not sure I’m getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).

    I mean the ‘multicultural’ faction was decisively defeated by the ‘assimilationist’ one during California’s debate over bilingual education. There likely would have been calamitous national consequences if things there went differently.

    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.

    Well I’m just speaking in hypotheticals in terms of Belgium, or any other distant place. If anyone emigrated from Pakistan to England in the past, they obviously couldn’t maintain any communication with their homeland, let alone regularly jet-set back and forth to have their daughters private parts mutilated by ‘surgeons’ so they could honourably marry their cousins in the name of their sick and retarded religion and culture.
    Obviously Spain and Morocco were and are bordering countries, so that’s different.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yevardian

    The ruling class or millionaire Pakistani people are very "Western", "nontraditional" and "modern".

    Pakistani person I knew, who was like a stereotype of a secular hipster. He was directly from Pakistan, but you would not feel he was not from Los Angeles or Milan. So, I'm not sure the explanation, that "jet travel" would be the main cause of less assimilating immigrants.

    Pakistan's immigrants in United Kingdom were mostly not just from the third world, but the most poor and rural peasants, many who had been displaced by modernization projects in Pakistan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris

    Probably these poor people have become more closed societies in the new country.

    I know it's not a reliable historical source, but the Wikipedia article is showing interesting history in the immigration. The British corporation which had created a dam that displaces their villages in Pakistan, has funded the immigration of the Mirpur people.


    More than 280 villages were submerged by water when the Mangla Dam was built. The towns of Mirpur and Dadyal were also flooded. Around 110,000 people were displaced.[6] Coincidentally, Britain at that time needed cheap workers, mainly for textile factories as British workers had begun to become expensive due to rising wages. Up to 5,000 people from Mirpur (5% of the displaced)[7] left for Britain, and the displaced Mirpuris were given legal and financial assistance by the British contractor that built the dam. Many started working in factories, mostly in the so-called "Black Country" near Birmingham, and in Bradford and Leeds. In some villages of Mirpur, more than half of the people moved to the United Kingdom to settle in the industrial towns.

    The rural, impoverished district provided cheap, unskilled labour for Britain in the 1960s and the 1970s. Families tend to be close-knit and the guiding influence behind everything from marriage to business.[9] In 1960s, Mirpur was considered to be a rural and conservative area. Due to the Mirpuri diaspora, the region witnessed significant economic progress and has become one of the most prosperous areas of Azad Kashmir.[10]

     

  190. @Yahya
    @Thulean Friend


    I would include Farage in that category also, even if he is more “based” in his rhetoric. That’s probably true of most European so-called “far-right populists”, including Salvini
     
    PM Meloni seems to be earnest in her desire to stop the flow of migration into Italy. On the other hand, she did once say Italy should “repatriate migrants back to their countries and then sink the boats that rescued them”, but now in office she’s trying to offload incoming migrants to other European nations by redirecting vessels and signing “redistribution agreements” with countries like France. Members of her anti-migration party were said to have rejoiced when the Ocean Viking landed in France.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/giorgia-meloni-emmanuel-macron-italy-france-clash-migrant-ship-ocean-viking/

    It’s perhaps good for Italy in the short-run but a situation where European countries are trying to dump their problems on each other will lead to a bad outcome over the long run for everyone involved. I’m wondering what legal means Italy or other European nations with anti-migration governments have to disactivate NGOs who ferry migrants across the Med; and whether it is possible for unilateral action? Preventing migration at its source is definitely better than the pass-the-bomb around situation that currently prevails.


    The difference between me and the racial separatists is that I am simply not as pessimistic as the racial separatists are and think we can keep our cultural traditions distinct while still meeting others across the racial, cultural and religious barriers. I live like that and it works splendidly for the most part.
     
    What will your position be if ethnic Swedes constitute 30% or so of the Swedish population? Will you be content with such an outcome? Do you think you’ll still be able to live splendidly?

    (I ask in good faith. Your view is interesting and I admire your willingness to go against the current here; no doubt some commenters here are sharpening their knives at you, and the passive-aggressive ones like ‘S’ squirming in their chairs right now.)

    Replies: @A123

    PM Meloni seems to be earnest in her desire to stop the flow of migration into Italy. … now in office she’s trying to offload incoming migrants to other European nations by redirecting vessels and signing “redistribution agreements” with countries like France.

    It’s perhaps good for Italy in the short-run but a situation where European countries are trying to dump their problems on each other will lead to a bad outcome over the long run for everyone involved.

    The EU exists. Until it is dissolved, Meloni is working in that framework. She is forcing members creating the issue to take the migrants & burden.

    It is similar to what Abbot and DeSantis are doing in the U.S. NYC, Chicago, and other Blue cities are receiving huge hits to their budgets. Inflicting costs on already struggling Leftoid European city governments will sap their will.

    On the other hand, she did once say Italy should “repatriate migrants back to their countries and then sink the boats that rescued them”

    Meloni can return to this later if/when needed. It’s always good to have a contingency option when negotiating.

    Leading with scuttling a German flagged vessel could easily cause the “authoritarian liberal” enemies to close ranks. Separating the most egregious open borders crazies from their less committed brethren is much more vital to the future versus a single, partial boat load of invaders today.

    ===============================
    “When strong, avoid them.
    If of high morale, depress them.
    Seem humble to fill them with conceit.
    If at ease, exhaust them.
    If united, separate them.
    Attack their weaknesses.
    Emerge to their surprise.”

    The Art of War, Sun Tzu
    ===============================

    Preventing migration at its source is definitely better than the pass-the-bomb around situation that currently prevails.

    Preventing the lures that draw migration is also essential. No job, no safety net, expedited expulsion if caught.

    I, and others, advocate for containment processing facilities somewhere in Africa. 100% of all MENA origin, non-Christian illegals & refugees would be immediately sent & kept there. They would not legally enter the EU until their claim is approved. A separate facility would be created elsewhere for Christian illegals & refugees.

    PEACE 😇

  191. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I'm going to reply to both comments #109 and #110, as they're both related and very much a continuation of the same matter.


    I also feel that your definition of consensus is a bit unseemly, like something coined by a political scientist, or group of them.
     
    The definition was retrieved upon googling in for the definition of "consensus", specifically within a portal answering the question "can "consensus" be quantified. It was somewhat coined probably by some political scientists (and other researchers) and based as a conglomerate term taken from 25 separate studies. It's probably as good as any definition, for this is the kind of thing that political scientists do for a living. Why, do you have a better definition?

    I have observed some negative precedent about these types of narratives firsthand, and I think it’s pretty fair to say now that the negative effects have a geographic scope extending far beyond Germany at this point.
     
    I'd b interested in hearing more about what causes you some sort of fear on your part (at least some sort of anxiety) and how the German experience might negatively effect the Ukrainian one?

    Really, Germany has quite a lot of its own problems, without politicians pretending to be historians or take up some external moral narrative.
     
    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic (you do agree that it's an important topic?) has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics, I'll remain unsympathetic to your call for expediency. Also, you'll have to admit that Germany and Ukraine, though not sharing borders, do indeed cohabit the same European space and therefore what is being done there is quite normal and should have been addressed much sooner. Better late than never.

    Leads with “Russian” rather than “Soviet.” A lot of terms employed seem designed to conflate: Kremlin, Moscow. Ends with a call to supply weapons and seemingly never compromise, in order to prevent another genocide.

    And, of course, the Green Party, a most evil group, seem to be leading the charge.
     

    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you've included. It's the interpretation and underlying of the message expressed within that I find to be accurate and historical that should be weighed as to its relative value. As for the Green party's input, I would consider this a case where a "most evil group" does a good thing, whereas not supporting the new German measures may very well be a case where "good people" for whatever reason do a bad thing.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Why, do you have a better definition?

    I’d prefer a simple accounting of votes. That would be precise and neutral language.

    [MORE]

    you do agree that it’s an important topic?

    I once had an idea that there be some yearlong class about communism, kind of a companion to Civics, which is supposed to be about explaining how the American system works. At least, I think it would fit comfortably in the k-12 system, which I am a critic of, if the fat were trimmed. Of course, the German system is different.

    But the tone of language doesn’t seem about educating about the perils of communism. And I don’t expect that the German system is even capable of acknowledging basic truths, about the history of communism, such as the membership roll of the communist party in the ’30s, when the Holodomor was perpetrated.

    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics

    An obstacle to that is that they are a den of scoundrels, and I don’t think highly of their abilities. The same could be said for the Irish parliament which had earlier approved similar measures.

    But philosophically a lot can be said for forms. How can these parliaments be good advocates for Ukrainians, when they are perpetually such poor advocates for their own people? I think that they should try to develop and keep a tradition of caring for their own people.

    They are both facing an immigration crisis, and an energy crisis. Ireland has a major housing crisis. Not a minor one. But a really major one. To some extent, my mother grew up in public housing – that is housing built to be affordable for families, under a nationalist system of looking out for your own people. That seems to be dead now, and, in all probably she would never have been born under the current system, which serves foreigners first, and is designed for single bugmen, nor any of her children or grandchildren.

    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included.

    these people are supposed to be journalists. They are supposed to be professional and unbiased and to know that Russia and the USSR were two different countries, with different political systems, but they are intentionally conflating them, in order to try to make the Holodomor a tool for bashing Russia, for avoiding any compromise or negotiation, however sensible, for unnecessarily killing tens of thousands of Slavs, or perhaps even more, by prolonging the conflict.

    I wouldn’t say that they are friends of Ukraine, though they are probably narcissistic enough to think so.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    How can these parliaments be good advocates for Ukrainians, when they are perpetually such poor advocates for their own people? I think that they should try to develop and keep a tradition of caring for their own people.
     
    You make a good cynical point here. All I can say here is that one wrong and one right doesn't necessarily add up to one big wrong. :-)

    They are supposed to be professional and unbiased and to know that Russia and the USSR were two different countries, with different political systems, but they are intentionally conflating them, in order to try to make the Holodomor a tool for bashing Russia,
     
    Well, the former Soviet Union had its capital in Moscow and the Russian language was the imperial ligua grancua for the whole country, often relegating the other national languages to obscurity and slated for eventual total elimination. In Ukraine's case, except for the first 10 years when the Bolsheviks were trying to consolidate their rule within Ukraine, the Russian language was encouraged in all levels of the government, military, educational system and TV and radio communications. Also, as the official "successor state of the Soviet Union" it's not really very difficult to understand why the terms "Soviet Union" and "Russian" are so often interchanged, one for the other.
  192. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    It's not necessary to enforce it through overt means, since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity. Such Foederati, as Sher Singh would call them, are useful in eliminating and diluting what the progressives see as native Euro's or American's negative traits. However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred "vibrant" communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.

    Progressive technocrats are like the Borg, ultimately it is always going to come down to, "assimilate or die".

    I think that the situation that Sher Singh and his Sikh brethren or Muslims will ultimately face is one similar to what has recently happened with Red America. The Republican electorate was shamelessly brainwashed and used for decades to enthusiastically forward a pro-corporate, anti-jobs, pro-security state, pro -American empire political agenda. All of these policies were actually undermining their position and once their usefulness was exhausted they have been cast aside to rot. Only now does the "Right" see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

    So if all the minorities want to try to play the system for gain they can try, but I think they will all be expected to kneel before a drag queen eventually. Once that realization fully hits it will probably be too late to really resist it with full strength.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Coconuts

    Only now does the “Right” see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

    What do you hope to achieve with your policy of highly vocal calls for “unilateral surrender”? If everyone believed you, what would be the outcome?

    Why not embrace the MAGA fight against global MegaCorporations? Even if it is too late, is that not the only morally correct choice? Giving up is akin to suicide.

    PEACE 😇

     

    • LOL: German_reader
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm not calling for unilateral surrender, it's just important to understand the past realistically. If Red America had opposed the security state expansions under W. Bush tooth and nail, we could have plausibly avoided it entirely. It's a lot easier to head something off rather than topple an entrenched system.

    So, there is a certain irony to conservatives realizing that these systems have a downside only when they look down the barrel of the gun they built.

    A lot of Left wing people are being similarly played for fools right now to advance further consolidation of power. They'll figure it out in a few years when they are no longer needed.

    Besides, if I was giving up I wouldn't have 5 kids and be putting so much effort into their upbringing. However, if we are talking about the way out of this it has to focus on heading of indoctrination of our kids, while living a positive value system that has substance.

    Myopic focus on national politics often detracts from this. I don't know how many people in their 50's and 60's I talk to that are aghast at what their children believe in. However they largely outsourced parenting to schools and TV. You reap what you sow, and conservatives better start working that ground a lot harder if they want to take society back.

    There are plenty of good parents out there who have done a great job raising their kids to be happily counter-cultural, and I'm thankful for them. However, it's a only a minority. Until conservatives get it through their heads that they live in a wholly hostile society they are going to behave naively.

    People are starting to get it, but it's too late to avoid a sizable gap generation or two that will overwhelmingly passively tolerant of Woke messaging. This is going to be painful times for a while. Even if Trump or Desantis is elected in 2024 it's not going to change what's already baked into society.

    Replies: @A123

  193. @Mikel
    Have Western leaders thought through this latest move to cap the price of Russian oil and enforce it worldwide through Western insurance companies or is this going to hit us all again like a ton of bricks at the pump and the grocery stores?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Have Western leaders thought through this latest move to cap the price of Russian oil and enforce it worldwide through Western insurance companies or is this going to hit us all again like a ton of bricks at the pump and the grocery stores?

    The latter is about to happen. Here is the view from The Economist:
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/11/30/the-wests-proposed-price-cap-on-russian-oil-is-no-magic-weapon

    Nothing new, though. The EU introduced umpteenth packet of sanctions against Russia. Net result: Russian cities shine at night like a Christmas tree in a rich house, whereas Europe in in darkness. Europe is preparing for worse times. Switzerland is even planning to ban EVs and limit the temperature at which you can launder your clothes to save electricity. As Russian saying puts it, that’s how you teach the fools.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN

    The economic downturn will depress energy demand - Europe is already in one, US will follow. The oil cap was set at $60 and the market could go down to that price on its own - and Baerbock will claim a 'victory'.

    Europe is in a no-win situation: the resources it depends on will be unavailable or too expensive. EU can issue more 'money' and pay people to consume, there is a lot of accumulated wealth to go through. But it is not sustainable.

    There is one winning scenario: Nato defeats Russia in Ukraine and Europe gets its share of spoils in the east. It is very unlikely, but the fact that the top people repeat it like a mantra - "Russia must not be allowed to win" - tells us what is going on. The problem is that Nato has spent 75 years getting ready to fight a war with Russia and today when they finally have a war Nato is nowhere to be seen...this is a catastrophic failure, an admission that they are too scared to fight. I am not sure they can talk their way out of it. But they will try.

    , @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN

    Regardless of how much one thinks that we should support Ukraine, everybody should demand basic competence from our economic authorities, like making sure that the sanctions they impose don't harm us more than the intended recipient. This is exactly what happened with the initial sanctions centered around gas and I'm wondering if any lesson was learned.

    They have the public on their side. The MSM has made sure of that and, frankly, so has Russia by starting this brutal war of choice. But you don't mess with the price of oil. It affects absolutely everything. Either they have been planning things very carefully during these past months of deliberations about the oil price cap or we're headed towards another disaster that will disproportionately harm the more vulnerable people without having any effect on the war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  194. @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN

    Bartendress Annalena in a dim light, noisy music, few drinks, sure she would do well on tips. And no talk of physics or geography.

    But I still think she climbs over 100 - we make a mistake assigning real smarts to the 100-110 band, they are competent, functional, their brain cells move, they simply lack education and critical thinking.

    Baerbock was probably fast-tracked as a 'girl with potential', never challenged and never forced to learn anything hard - like understanding the mysterious magic of electric outlets - it is not all her fault. These people rule us, or are the favorite group to stick up front by the people who do, but they generally make no decisions. Baerbock knows that she should push the war and downplay any consequences - Biden is the same. When the war will be lost and the consequences too dire, they will be quietly replaced.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    When the war will be lost and the consequences too dire, they will be quietly replaced.

    That’s the beauty of having rulers hidden and figureheads displayed to the gullible public. You can make them scapegoats and replace disposable nonentities without damaging your power or being accountable for your blunders.

  195. @German_reader
    @Barbarossa


    since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity.
     
    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup? Sure, there are probably plenty of other Moroccans who are assimilated in many ways, living nice bourgeois lives, and maybe even hold the fashionable "progressive" views about acronym people. But others are outright hostile to the society surrounding them (and that hostility can take worse forms than just rioting, remember the Paris terrorist attacks a few years ago and their perpetrators from Molenbeek), even if they're already the 3rd generation living there. So I don't think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is (though it may be different in America, I don't know).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    I don’t think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is

    Assimilation is anything but inevitable. Actually, Jews (often mentioned on this site) are an instructive example: they maintained their separate identity for centuries.

    One of my (Jewish) friends proposed an interesting theory. He said that Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation. Are Muslim customs idiotic enough for that purpose?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...interesting theory...Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation.
     
    Idiocy is an intentional part of all ideologies. It assures loyalty because forcing faith in an idiotic custom or ideas changes people, they become emotionally dependent on the made-up world. They defend it and grow fond of the idiocies that become part of them.

    Liberalism has introduced gender nonsense and racial idiocy for the same reason - for decades (centuries) they suffered from being too rational, too normal. They kept on losing to upstart ideologies that captured people with enthusiastic embrace of idiocies - 'he died for our sins!', 'divine right to rule', 'blood and nation' or 'we will abolish money!' Now the liberals are exceeding even that and the woke loyalties are cemented with the idiocy. It also shows that liberalism is close to its natural end...

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    One of my (Jewish) friends proposed an interesting theory. He said that Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation.
     
    Idiotic is probably not the best term. How about idiosyncratic?

    Orthodox Jews give their children unique clothing and hair. And, orthodox adults protect them as a team effort. Any thing heading towards Boy Meets Girl across that obvious divide of visible difference will draw immediate intervention.

    PEACE 😇
  196. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    Have Western leaders thought through this latest move to cap the price of Russian oil and enforce it worldwide through Western insurance companies or is this going to hit us all again like a ton of bricks at the pump and the grocery stores?
     
    The latter is about to happen. Here is the view from The Economist:
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/11/30/the-wests-proposed-price-cap-on-russian-oil-is-no-magic-weapon

    Nothing new, though. The EU introduced umpteenth packet of sanctions against Russia. Net result: Russian cities shine at night like a Christmas tree in a rich house, whereas Europe in in darkness. Europe is preparing for worse times. Switzerland is even planning to ban EVs and limit the temperature at which you can launder your clothes to save electricity. As Russian saying puts it, that’s how you teach the fools.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikel

    The economic downturn will depress energy demand – Europe is already in one, US will follow. The oil cap was set at $60 and the market could go down to that price on its own – and Baerbock will claim a ‘victory’.

    Europe is in a no-win situation: the resources it depends on will be unavailable or too expensive. EU can issue more ‘money’ and pay people to consume, there is a lot of accumulated wealth to go through. But it is not sustainable.

    There is one winning scenario: Nato defeats Russia in Ukraine and Europe gets its share of spoils in the east. It is very unlikely, but the fact that the top people repeat it like a mantra – “Russia must not be allowed to win” – tells us what is going on. The problem is that Nato has spent 75 years getting ready to fight a war with Russia and today when they finally have a war Nato is nowhere to be seen…this is a catastrophic failure, an admission that they are too scared to fight. I am not sure they can talk their way out of it. But they will try.

  197. Sher Singh says:
    @Yevardian
    @Thulean Friend


    I have more respect for racial separatism than I do for Yevardian’s assimiliationism, because at least it has a more realistic view of human nature and we would have less instances of trying to force diversity into fundamentally White lore, myths and legends under the misguided notion of trying to make everyone the same. LOTR is just the latest abomination. As I argued, assimilationism isn’t just harmful to minorities. It’s harmful to Whites, as it dilutes our cultural distinction.
     
    The crucial distinction here is these people live under the same state, in the same cities, often in the same neighborhoods.
    Racial separatism is why national borders exist, and indeed was always the main justification for all ordinary people through history. Immigrants always assimilated to the places they moved in the past, with the exception of a few 'Rootless Cosmopolitans' (Jews, Parsis, Armenians) with strong international connections, usually because they were merchants. Or those unable to adapt simply due to lack of ability (dalit-descended gypsies, descendents of black slaves).
    Now with modern technology the threat of every new immigrant group forming a permanent aggreived minority is much greater. Those that don't accept or actively despise the value of the society that hosts them are cancers in the body politic and should be deported.

    Maintaining dozens of separate racio-cultural identies within the same country can only lead to resentment and dysfunctionality at best (Belgium) or unending communal violence and total political nepotism at worst.
    Lack of any overarching national identity or assimilation to one is why the Middle-East is such a hobbesian shithole, despite the averaged quality of people there not being noticeably worse than Europe. A racially divided caste society would be a dystopia for Europe.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Sher Singh

    Assimilation needs a material & legal incentive – neither exists.
    Factory jobs don’t support households,
    Ethnically politicked corporate jobs do.

    Assimilation to a house + lawn may make sense.
    The Kardashians don’t, and they made you White.
    The path to whiteness for browns is nigger-loving.

    You’re correct that the internet + airlines impede assimilation.

    ————————–
    @barbarossa

    By foederati I include an eventual military element.
    Within 6 months of the convoy where white cops refused to act,
    The Canadian gov opened military positions to non-citizens.
    The Liberal state loses legitimacy + capability despite harsher rhetoric.
    Material strength & loyalty really.

    Not in the business of making predictions, but a few points stand out.

    1. Assimilation doesn’t remove clannish criminality, only its political utility.
    2. The libs may want immigrants to bend the knee, but they may not.

    The Right ultimately crumbled because its elite was granted upward mobility.
    Carrot + Stick. Either the carrot’s big enough or you fall to the stick.
    The Southern Middle Class was given positions in the MIC before de-segregation hit.

    The prosperity to buy off the entire MENA + Subcon elite doesn’t exist.
    When it did, like before the 70s you saw women with skirts in Kabul & Tehran.

    Karlin often comments that tech transfer needs a capable recipient.
    Same with legal backing ie nerdy blacks won’t beat you for saying nigger.
    Singhs are mobilizing, but even the farmer’s protest felt hollow till the Red Fort attack.

    Basically, I don’t know but check the infographics below more for white lib stats:

    [MORE]

    https://occidentaldissent.com/2022/12/01/nowhiteguilt-responds-to-counter-currents/

    Older stats on that site showed Asian cons were 9% ethno-centric vs like 15 for Asian libs.
    Asian cons being white-washed cucks checks out.

    Assimilation can decrease over generations as the community establishes institutions.
    Diaspora won’t be like the homeland, but it can be politically useful like Ukr-Canadians.

    Liberals went ultra-woke due to Obamaphones + Trump. Who knows where next?

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
  198. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I don’t think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is
     
    Assimilation is anything but inevitable. Actually, Jews (often mentioned on this site) are an instructive example: they maintained their separate identity for centuries.

    One of my (Jewish) friends proposed an interesting theory. He said that Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation. Are Muslim customs idiotic enough for that purpose?

    Replies: @Beckow, @A123

    …interesting theory…Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation.

    Idiocy is an intentional part of all ideologies. It assures loyalty because forcing faith in an idiotic custom or ideas changes people, they become emotionally dependent on the made-up world. They defend it and grow fond of the idiocies that become part of them.

    Liberalism has introduced gender nonsense and racial idiocy for the same reason – for decades (centuries) they suffered from being too rational, too normal. They kept on losing to upstart ideologies that captured people with enthusiastic embrace of idiocies – ‘he died for our sins!‘, ‘divine right to rule‘, ‘blood and nation‘ or ‘we will abolish money!‘ Now the liberals are exceeding even that and the woke loyalties are cemented with the idiocy. It also shows that liberalism is close to its natural end…

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Beckow

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1048702097752870972/Feminism_1.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1048702097979342988/IMG-20161008-WA0002.jpg

  199. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I don’t think assimilation is as inevitable as you think it is
     
    Assimilation is anything but inevitable. Actually, Jews (often mentioned on this site) are an instructive example: they maintained their separate identity for centuries.

    One of my (Jewish) friends proposed an interesting theory. He said that Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation. Are Muslim customs idiotic enough for that purpose?

    Replies: @Beckow, @A123

    One of my (Jewish) friends proposed an interesting theory. He said that Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation.

    Idiotic is probably not the best term. How about idiosyncratic?

    Orthodox Jews give their children unique clothing and hair. And, orthodox adults protect them as a team effort. Any thing heading towards Boy Meets Girl across that obvious divide of visible difference will draw immediate intervention.

    PEACE 😇

  200. @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...interesting theory...Jewish customs are intentionally idiotic, so that no sane gentile would accept them, and that prevents interbreeding and assimilation.
     
    Idiocy is an intentional part of all ideologies. It assures loyalty because forcing faith in an idiotic custom or ideas changes people, they become emotionally dependent on the made-up world. They defend it and grow fond of the idiocies that become part of them.

    Liberalism has introduced gender nonsense and racial idiocy for the same reason - for decades (centuries) they suffered from being too rational, too normal. They kept on losing to upstart ideologies that captured people with enthusiastic embrace of idiocies - 'he died for our sins!', 'divine right to rule', 'blood and nation' or 'we will abolish money!' Now the liberals are exceeding even that and the woke loyalties are cemented with the idiocy. It also shows that liberalism is close to its natural end...

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  201. @Yevardian
    @Yevardian

    Actually, I don't think my point even has to be made, especially here. Just look at Our Benefactor's work regarding Latinos in the United States.


    Have you seen some of the recent videos of rioting Moroccans (or rather Moroccan-Belgians, I suppose) in Belgium, after their ancestral team won a game in the world cup?
     
    Obviously the vast majority should never have been accepted to Belgium in the first place, but I think everyone here agrees on that anyway. But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.

    Gypsies have been in Romania for about 600 years, though many came into the 17th century.

  202. @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    Just look at Our Benefactor’s work regarding Latinos in the United States.
     
    Not sure I'm getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).

    But if those Moroccans arrived a few centuries ago before modern technology, I think they probably would have assimilated.
     
    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @AnonfromTN

    OT (if you can be OT in an open thread)
    I was told that this is a German joke. I am curious whether it actually is German:

    A German boy asks his father
    – Why is it so cold and so dark?
    – Because Russia invaded Ukraine, and European Union sanctioned Russia, to make Russians suffer.
    – Are we Russians?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN

    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
    I get it, you feel a mixture of schadenfreude and disappointment. Ok. And yes, Germany, and with it much of Europe, is screwed. Anything else?
    What's your view of Russia's future btw? China's junior partner and wannabe benefactor of negroes in places like Burkina Faso, and domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @songbird

  203. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included.
     
    It's a distortion though to view Holodomor purely or primarily through a national lens, the Soviet regime also waged war against peasants in Russia and against pastoralists in places like Kazakhstan. This is about weaponizing history (and by now it's pretty old history, virtually everyone involved is dead) for present-day purposes, not about getting at historical truth (insofar as that's ever possible).
    And anyway, I doubt these measures will do Ukraine much good given the current situation. I have to admit I'm always veering between thinking that Ukraine has no chance of outright defeating Russia or that there's a danger of a battle for Crimea leading to nuclear escalation...but right now the former looks more likely again, given how Russia seems to be able to demolish so much of Ukrainian infrastructure. I just hope people like MacGregor are full of shit and wrong in their claims that there'll be a major Russian ground offensive in the coming months.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    It’s a distortion though to view Holodomor purely or primarily through a national lens, the Soviet regime also waged war against peasants in Russia and against pastoralists in places like Kazakhstan.

    I could be wrong, however, I don’t think that the destruction of the intelligentsia and the clergy of other countries within the Soviet Union, was nearly so drastic as within Ukraine. The similarities ended at the economic destruction of these countries, as the kremlin elites were very interested in collecting foodstuffs in order to sell these items to raise more money for more of their sordid plans. Otherwise, one could view these similar events in other countries as further examples of genocide. You couldn’t possibly think that Lemkin made these accusations in the Ukrainian case of the Holodomor based on his inability to be objective and due to his myopic view seen through a “national lens”, as he was himself a Polish Jew?

    but right now the former looks more likely again, given how Russia seems to be able to demolish so much of Ukrainian infrastructure.

    You’re right about Russia’s pernicious actions within Ukraine and the further destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure. Here are some current photos of the destruction of Bakhmut by Russian bombing, that’s been fought over for several weeks now. Fortunately it’s a small town, that has yet not been taken and indicates the slow motion of the Russian advance in the area:
    Another school detroyed by Russian forces in Bakhmut. The price t pay for creating the new Russian World within Ukraine?
    Bakkhmut, possibly another Russian “trophy” within Ukraine – looks a lot like Mariupol.,

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    I don’t think that the destruction of the intelligentsia and the clergy of other countries within the Soviet Union, was nearly so drastic as within Ukraine.
     
    I don't know, the Soviets killed lots of people, including lots of ethnic Russians. I mean, there was something like the Butovo execution site near Moscow where they shot Russian clergymen, and many others, during the Great Terror. So it just feels forced to me to pretend that all this was merely about great Russian chauvinism, which it seems to me is implied in some of the current interpretations of Holodomor.

    that has yet not been taken and indicates the slow motion of the Russian advance in the area:
     
    I think the danger (and probably the aim) is that Ukraine becomes unlivable for many people during winter because of the destruction of infrastructure (no power, no heating, no water...).
  204. German_reader says:
    @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader

    OT (if you can be OT in an open thread)
    I was told that this is a German joke. I am curious whether it actually is German:

    A German boy asks his father
    - Why is it so cold and so dark?
    - Because Russia invaded Ukraine, and European Union sanctioned Russia, to make Russians suffer.
    - Are we Russians?

    Replies: @German_reader

    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
    I get it, you feel a mixture of schadenfreude and disappointment. Ok. And yes, Germany, and with it much of Europe, is screwed. Anything else?
    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw? China’s junior partner and wannabe benefactor of negroes in places like Burkina Faso, and domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
     
    I just asked whether this joke is German. Not because I hold a pretty common outside Germany belief that Germans don’t have a sense of humor. I know enough Germans to be confident that they do (or, rather the fraction of the population lacking it is about the same in Germany as in other places). It just did not sound quite German to me, that’s all. But you did not answer my question.

    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw?
     
    I don’t think that’s settled. It certainly won’t be China’s junior partner: China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white, having ample natural resources, and having pretty qualified and ambitious workforce.

    domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?
     
    That’s a rather stupid myth spread by the propaganda of dying empire and its even faster deteriorating vassals. Minimal analysis of the facts would dispel it for a person thinking logically. One, in terms of brutality (use of truncheons and tear gas on demonstrators or firearms on citizens) Russian police is way behind the police of self-appointed “democratic” countries. Just remember how Yellow wests were treated in France, or how demonstrators demanding elementary sanity are treated right now all over Europe. Not to mention totally illegal repressions against Jan 6, 2021 demonstrators or police shooting people in the US. Not to mention Assange case, a veritable travesty of justice: a charge faked by Swedish police, that was dropped when it became impossible to deny that it was fake; nonetheless his long detention in solitary confinement in high-security prison in the UK, and now the decision to extradite a person guilty of nothing to the US.

    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”. E.g., Putin’s approval among Russian population is higher than what “democratic” leaders can even dream of (or dare to fake via election fraud). Very recent ban by Congress of a strike of the US railway workers (who, among other things, demanded at least seven days of paid sick leave per year, as right now they have zero) is a fresh example of “democracy”.

    Besides, unlike thoroughly brainwashed docile Europeans and Americans, Russians are not cowards. They rose up against traitorous thieves in 1993, just two years into Yeltsin rule, and the regime had to spill a lot of blood to put down that rebellion.

    So, I can’t predict Russia’s future, but I can predict the future of decrepit Europe.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Yahya

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader


    China’s junior partner
     
    It doesn't work that way:

    1. PRC has good relations with Ukraine, who in turn is probably not going to go against China on the Taiwan Question.

    2. Few PRC elites want to move to Russia, and no Russians want to move to China. Recently top Chicom propagandist Zhao Lijian was outted as having been living in Germany. And Jack Ma has moved to Japan,

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/29/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-hiding-out-in-tokyo-reports-say

    3. Russia's tradition in the Far East is to instigate enmity between China and Japan. Herr Professor from TN said in the last thread the equivalent of-- I have English colleagues, and most of them hate Germans, and the feeling is mutual.

    And here we are again:

    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-planned-attack-japan-2021-fsb-letters-1762133

    https://news.usni.org/2022/11/30/japanese-korean-fighters-scrambled-in-response-to-joint-russia-china-bomber-patrol

    But he's right about Russia selling more crucial commodities. PRC exports alot of trinkets which people can figure to do without.

    Wagenknecht did an interview together with Alice Weidel and looked like they had alot of chemistry together. Mega geil.

    https://youtu.be/1U_DamvhkWs?t=3601

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @songbird
    @German_reader


    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw? China’s junior partner
     
    Don't think it is especially likely, but I would say there is at least a possibility that Russia becomes dominant again.

    That would be Russia righting its demographic decline, while China fails to, or is late to the party. Maybe, some core of Euro professionals being drawn to Russia, as the West reaches a more significant threshold of decline. It may also be possible, that China makes a precipitous move on Taiwan, which weakens it significantly.

    Of course, there are no signs of this happening now, and people like Zeihan are already dancing on Russia's grave, saying demographic trends mean it will cease to exist in 50 years time. Seems a bit premature to me, especially as he takes such a blank-slatist view of age cohorts in the West.
  205. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    It's not necessary to enforce it through overt means, since after a couple generations it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a separate identity. Such Foederati, as Sher Singh would call them, are useful in eliminating and diluting what the progressives see as native Euro's or American's negative traits. However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred "vibrant" communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.

    Progressive technocrats are like the Borg, ultimately it is always going to come down to, "assimilate or die".

    I think that the situation that Sher Singh and his Sikh brethren or Muslims will ultimately face is one similar to what has recently happened with Red America. The Republican electorate was shamelessly brainwashed and used for decades to enthusiastically forward a pro-corporate, anti-jobs, pro-security state, pro -American empire political agenda. All of these policies were actually undermining their position and once their usefulness was exhausted they have been cast aside to rot. Only now does the "Right" see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

    So if all the minorities want to try to play the system for gain they can try, but I think they will all be expected to kneel before a drag queen eventually. Once that realization fully hits it will probably be too late to really resist it with full strength.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Coconuts

    However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred “vibrant” communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.

    In Europe I am starting to doubt whether this will be possible. You can see in the UK that a lot of the bigger ethnic minority communities are becoming diasporas, closely connected to countries with much larger (and more youthful) populations. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are still bringing in wives/husbands from their homelands each generation. The fact they are minorities promotes higher levels of group solidarity, they seem to be retaining or reviving traditional religion/customs and afaik, still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.

    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives, but the latter may be just surrendering to new pressures and realities created by more youthful population groups.

    The things GR and Yevardian mentioned, the state trying to micro-manage things and failing due to advancing idiocracy and divided citizenry and the development of overtly communal politics don’t seem like implausible possibilities for the future.

    I wonder now whether progressives and globalists had clear ideas of what they were doing when they started pursuing the mass-migration option in the 90s. Sometimes you see interviews with Tony Blair where it looks like he is aware he misjudged this one.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.
     
    In the data until 2005, their trend had been converging, although it is not like the Hindu and Caribbean immigrants who were already converged in the 1987-1994.

    https://i.imgur.com/vYaNQtz.jpg

    In 1987, the nationalities of Pakistan and Bangladesh immigrants of United Kingdom were around half the fertility of their home country.

    Pakistan immigrants in the United Kingdom were from the poorest region of Pakistan, in the new country, they had half of the fertility rate of Pakistan in 1987-1994.

    A funny scenario until 2005 is Bangladesh. Because now Bangladesh country is converging to the United Kingdom even with the vast difference of economic development. It would interesting to know if the Bangladesh immigrants have not converged.

    https://i.imgur.com/eR4ZKCX.jpg

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Barbarossa
    @Coconuts

    In reply to GR and yourself, I don't discount the possibility that the liberal establishment has miscalculated on mass immigration. The establishment has a supreme faith in it's ability that all things are fundamentally manageable. This led to a lot of the stupidity around Covid responses. Some things in this world cannot be infinitely managed.

    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I've said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it's current trajectory. Anything that undermines that seriously is okay with me. It doesn't mean that I will like a great many of the direct consequences of that, since it will continue to cause more societal breakdown and chaos.


    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives,
     
    I'm not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn't matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.

    What I'm thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society. If those groups refuse to integrate then they will start getting increasingly more overt pressure to do so.

    the development of overtly communal politics
     
    I think this plausible and is not a possibility that I'm opposed to since aligning politics more on the lines of direct and local material concerns is more reasonable than more prone to manipulation theoretical national politics.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  206. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    Why, do you have a better definition?
     
    I'd prefer a simple accounting of votes. That would be precise and neutral language.

    you do agree that it’s an important topic?
     
    I once had an idea that there be some yearlong class about communism, kind of a companion to Civics, which is supposed to be about explaining how the American system works. At least, I think it would fit comfortably in the k-12 system, which I am a critic of, if the fat were trimmed. Of course, the German system is different.

    But the tone of language doesn't seem about educating about the perils of communism. And I don't expect that the German system is even capable of acknowledging basic truths, about the history of communism, such as the membership roll of the communist party in the '30s, when the Holodomor was perpetrated.


    Unless you can show me how the time spent on such an important topic has somehow impinged on the German parliaments ability to handle more crucial internal German topics
     
    An obstacle to that is that they are a den of scoundrels, and I don't think highly of their abilities. The same could be said for the Irish parliament which had earlier approved similar measures.

    But philosophically a lot can be said for forms. How can these parliaments be good advocates for Ukrainians, when they are perpetually such poor advocates for their own people? I think that they should try to develop and keep a tradition of caring for their own people.

    They are both facing an immigration crisis, and an energy crisis. Ireland has a major housing crisis. Not a minor one. But a really major one. To some extent, my mother grew up in public housing - that is housing built to be affordable for families, under a nationalist system of looking out for your own people. That seems to be dead now, and, in all probably she would never have been born under the current system, which serves foreigners first, and is designed for single bugmen, nor any of her children or grandchildren.


    Conflating terms like Russian/Soviet and Kremlin/Moscow has been done for over half of a century, and to bring it up now seems a bit petty IMHO, especially when trying to downplay the quality of the video clip you’ve included.
     
    these people are supposed to be journalists. They are supposed to be professional and unbiased and to know that Russia and the USSR were two different countries, with different political systems, but they are intentionally conflating them, in order to try to make the Holodomor a tool for bashing Russia, for avoiding any compromise or negotiation, however sensible, for unnecessarily killing tens of thousands of Slavs, or perhaps even more, by prolonging the conflict.

    I wouldn't say that they are friends of Ukraine, though they are probably narcissistic enough to think so.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    How can these parliaments be good advocates for Ukrainians, when they are perpetually such poor advocates for their own people? I think that they should try to develop and keep a tradition of caring for their own people.

    You make a good cynical point here. All I can say here is that one wrong and one right doesn’t necessarily add up to one big wrong. 🙂

    They are supposed to be professional and unbiased and to know that Russia and the USSR were two different countries, with different political systems, but they are intentionally conflating them, in order to try to make the Holodomor a tool for bashing Russia,

    Well, the former Soviet Union had its capital in Moscow and the Russian language was the imperial ligua grancua for the whole country, often relegating the other national languages to obscurity and slated for eventual total elimination. In Ukraine’s case, except for the first 10 years when the Bolsheviks were trying to consolidate their rule within Ukraine, the Russian language was encouraged in all levels of the government, military, educational system and TV and radio communications. Also, as the official “successor state of the Soviet Union” it’s not really very difficult to understand why the terms “Soviet Union” and “Russian” are so often interchanged, one for the other.

  207. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    It’s a distortion though to view Holodomor purely or primarily through a national lens, the Soviet regime also waged war against peasants in Russia and against pastoralists in places like Kazakhstan.
     
    I could be wrong, however, I don't think that the destruction of the intelligentsia and the clergy of other countries within the Soviet Union, was nearly so drastic as within Ukraine. The similarities ended at the economic destruction of these countries, as the kremlin elites were very interested in collecting foodstuffs in order to sell these items to raise more money for more of their sordid plans. Otherwise, one could view these similar events in other countries as further examples of genocide. You couldn't possibly think that Lemkin made these accusations in the Ukrainian case of the Holodomor based on his inability to be objective and due to his myopic view seen through a "national lens", as he was himself a Polish Jew?

    but right now the former looks more likely again, given how Russia seems to be able to demolish so much of Ukrainian infrastructure.
     
    You're right about Russia's pernicious actions within Ukraine and the further destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure. Here are some current photos of the destruction of Bakhmut by Russian bombing, that's been fought over for several weeks now. Fortunately it's a small town, that has yet not been taken and indicates the slow motion of the Russian advance in the area:

    https://war.ukraine.ua/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/0f500000-0aff-0242-511c-08da496b55ac_w1597_n_st-1024x576.png
    Another school detroyed by Russian forces in Bakhmut. The price t pay for creating the new Russian World within Ukraine?

    https://amayei.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/2022/07/inbound6047821100701164335-780x470.jpg
    Bakkhmut, possibly another Russian "trophy" within Ukraine - looks a lot like Mariupol.,

    Replies: @German_reader

    I don’t think that the destruction of the intelligentsia and the clergy of other countries within the Soviet Union, was nearly so drastic as within Ukraine.

    I don’t know, the Soviets killed lots of people, including lots of ethnic Russians. I mean, there was something like the Butovo execution site near Moscow where they shot Russian clergymen, and many others, during the Great Terror. So it just feels forced to me to pretend that all this was merely about great Russian chauvinism, which it seems to me is implied in some of the current interpretations of Holodomor.

    that has yet not been taken and indicates the slow motion of the Russian advance in the area:

    I think the danger (and probably the aim) is that Ukraine becomes unlivable for many people during winter because of the destruction of infrastructure (no power, no heating, no water…).

  208. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN

    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
    I get it, you feel a mixture of schadenfreude and disappointment. Ok. And yes, Germany, and with it much of Europe, is screwed. Anything else?
    What's your view of Russia's future btw? China's junior partner and wannabe benefactor of negroes in places like Burkina Faso, and domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @songbird

    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?

    I just asked whether this joke is German. Not because I hold a pretty common outside Germany belief that Germans don’t have a sense of humor. I know enough Germans to be confident that they do (or, rather the fraction of the population lacking it is about the same in Germany as in other places). It just did not sound quite German to me, that’s all. But you did not answer my question.

    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw?

    I don’t think that’s settled. It certainly won’t be China’s junior partner: China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white, having ample natural resources, and having pretty qualified and ambitious workforce.

    domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?

    That’s a rather stupid myth spread by the propaganda of dying empire and its even faster deteriorating vassals. Minimal analysis of the facts would dispel it for a person thinking logically. One, in terms of brutality (use of truncheons and tear gas on demonstrators or firearms on citizens) Russian police is way behind the police of self-appointed “democratic” countries. Just remember how Yellow wests were treated in France, or how demonstrators demanding elementary sanity are treated right now all over Europe. Not to mention totally illegal repressions against Jan 6, 2021 demonstrators or police shooting people in the US. Not to mention Assange case, a veritable travesty of justice: a charge faked by Swedish police, that was dropped when it became impossible to deny that it was fake; nonetheless his long detention in solitary confinement in high-security prison in the UK, and now the decision to extradite a person guilty of nothing to the US.

    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”. E.g., Putin’s approval among Russian population is higher than what “democratic” leaders can even dream of (or dare to fake via election fraud). Very recent ban by Congress of a strike of the US railway workers (who, among other things, demanded at least seven days of paid sick leave per year, as right now they have zero) is a fresh example of “democracy”.

    Besides, unlike thoroughly brainwashed docile Europeans and Americans, Russians are not cowards. They rose up against traitorous thieves in 1993, just two years into Yeltsin rule, and the regime had to spill a lot of blood to put down that rebellion.

    So, I can’t predict Russia’s future, but I can predict the future of decrepit Europe.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?

    • Troll: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”.
     
    Has it ever occurred to you that both systems might be pretty bad?
    I'm hardly a supporter of what Western countries have turned into, but this constant cheerleading for Russia with all her obvious flaws eventually gets pretty old.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?
     
    Nah, obviously not (and you already knew that), so far the part about suffering in the cold and darkness is way too exaggerated, instantly marks it as a foreign creation. Of course the prospect is pretty bleak, no doubt about that, but the real suffering still lies ahead. If I learn of any genuine German jokes then, I'll tell you.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN


    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,
     
    That's obviously a shortcoming. Thanks for make your feelings clear.

    I'll make sure to quote you to the CCP trolls, as I said--

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese
     

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AnonfromTN

    , @Yahya
    @AnonfromTN

    About the only thing Russia has going for it is a less cucked people/culture than Germany and the West.

    Other than that, Germany is superior in almost every other aspect, including governance.

    Sad truth: a 50% non-white Germany is still a better place to live in than an 100% white Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  209. German_reader says:
    @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
     
    I just asked whether this joke is German. Not because I hold a pretty common outside Germany belief that Germans don’t have a sense of humor. I know enough Germans to be confident that they do (or, rather the fraction of the population lacking it is about the same in Germany as in other places). It just did not sound quite German to me, that’s all. But you did not answer my question.

    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw?
     
    I don’t think that’s settled. It certainly won’t be China’s junior partner: China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white, having ample natural resources, and having pretty qualified and ambitious workforce.

    domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?
     
    That’s a rather stupid myth spread by the propaganda of dying empire and its even faster deteriorating vassals. Minimal analysis of the facts would dispel it for a person thinking logically. One, in terms of brutality (use of truncheons and tear gas on demonstrators or firearms on citizens) Russian police is way behind the police of self-appointed “democratic” countries. Just remember how Yellow wests were treated in France, or how demonstrators demanding elementary sanity are treated right now all over Europe. Not to mention totally illegal repressions against Jan 6, 2021 demonstrators or police shooting people in the US. Not to mention Assange case, a veritable travesty of justice: a charge faked by Swedish police, that was dropped when it became impossible to deny that it was fake; nonetheless his long detention in solitary confinement in high-security prison in the UK, and now the decision to extradite a person guilty of nothing to the US.

    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”. E.g., Putin’s approval among Russian population is higher than what “democratic” leaders can even dream of (or dare to fake via election fraud). Very recent ban by Congress of a strike of the US railway workers (who, among other things, demanded at least seven days of paid sick leave per year, as right now they have zero) is a fresh example of “democracy”.

    Besides, unlike thoroughly brainwashed docile Europeans and Americans, Russians are not cowards. They rose up against traitorous thieves in 1993, just two years into Yeltsin rule, and the regime had to spill a lot of blood to put down that rebellion.

    So, I can’t predict Russia’s future, but I can predict the future of decrepit Europe.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Yahya

    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”.

    Has it ever occurred to you that both systems might be pretty bad?
    I’m hardly a supporter of what Western countries have turned into, but this constant cheerleading for Russia with all her obvious flaws eventually gets pretty old.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?

    Nah, obviously not (and you already knew that), so far the part about suffering in the cold and darkness is way too exaggerated, instantly marks it as a foreign creation. Of course the prospect is pretty bleak, no doubt about that, but the real suffering still lies ahead. If I learn of any genuine German jokes then, I’ll tell you.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    Has it ever occurred to you that both systems might be pretty bad?
     
    That’s actually my working hypothesis. However, being a natural (STEM in the American lingo) scientist, I compare two things that actually exist, rather than these things with what I’d like to exist. Quite naturally, neither is perfect. But the comparison is more obvious than what I am used to in my experiments.

    I don’t know too many Brits, Frenchmen, Italians, or Spaniards, but I am personally acquainted with many Germans. I am convinced that the people I know deserve a lot better than what is coming to them. Living in a “democracy” I understand that regular people have no voice whatsoever. Therefore, I just feel sorry for the Germans. Considering how idealistic you really are, you are included.
  210. Funny to hear James Cameron of all people calling testosterone “a toxin that you have to slowly work out of your system.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2022/12/02/james-cameron-testosterone-a-toxin-you-must-be-cleansed-of/

    Would be interesting to see his levels. IMO, you have got to be pretty high when you are working as a truck driver to make ends meet, while you are trying to break your way into the movie business, and you actually do it.

  211. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader


    pro-mass immigration narratives can be implanted that easily even in a country with Ireland’s history.
     
    Ireland's history has nothing to do with it, which is rather the point. When people buy global multi-cult capitalism they have no history anymore. It's truly a break in the continuity and history is utterly irrelevant.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Dmitry

    Historically Republic of Ireland was the most left-wing country of Western Europe, until around in the 1990s the leaders have changed to become a capitalist tax-haven. It is a kind of Faustian experience where their bankers have sold their left-wing soul to international capitalism. But their left-wing tradition continues like a parallel culture with the local population.

    So, now they have the divided reality, where the left-wing traditions continue with the local people, but the country’s economy is developed by compromise with the most cynical capitalism – a tax haven.

    The tax haven strategy was successful to attract a lot of the world’s best corporations to open offices in Republic of Ireland, which has become a mass fashion in the 21st century as they reduce their tax costs by vast billions of dollars.

    On the other hand, the education system was historically weak in Ireland, so there were not a good number of local workers that can be hired for many industries (e.g. engineers).

    Many multinational companies are trying to re-invest to improve the education system in Ireland. There is constant funding and scholarships to the local education. But most of the skilled workers will have to import from outside. Local youth are usually less nerds there as the culture, and the youth that smoke so much cannabis you can smell from on the other part of the road.

    So, it becomes a bit eccentric, where most of the skilled workers in the country’s most productive industries, are foreign immigrants. Maybe it’s not like the engineers in Qatar or UAE, but the local culture is a bit disconnected from the corporations.

    It’s still good for the local Irish people, as many young people with relatively low qualifications, are recruited for not cleaning jobs, by the international corporations. The same young people in Russia, will be working in fast food restaurants. And the even most good qualified young people in Russia, will have many times more difficulty to begin an acceptable career.

    You can see with Ireland, there is very easy opportunity relative to the qualifications of the youth – the 23 year old girl with undergraduate for postcolonial studies, and a masters in science in “digital media”, begin working as ui/ux designer for a corporation with multinational dimensions and will have opportunity to climb to different areas in their career. In Russia, the 23 year olds with computer science masters in science, is fighting all the highly qualified people from very competent workers, to begin for $800 a month, in a company where they won’t have many places to climb.

    • Thanks: Coconuts, Barbarossa
  212. @Coconuts
    @Barbarossa


    However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred “vibrant” communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.
     
    In Europe I am starting to doubt whether this will be possible. You can see in the UK that a lot of the bigger ethnic minority communities are becoming diasporas, closely connected to countries with much larger (and more youthful) populations. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are still bringing in wives/husbands from their homelands each generation. The fact they are minorities promotes higher levels of group solidarity, they seem to be retaining or reviving traditional religion/customs and afaik, still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.

    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives, but the latter may be just surrendering to new pressures and realities created by more youthful population groups.

    The things GR and Yevardian mentioned, the state trying to micro-manage things and failing due to advancing idiocracy and divided citizenry and the development of overtly communal politics don't seem like implausible possibilities for the future.

    I wonder now whether progressives and globalists had clear ideas of what they were doing when they started pursuing the mass-migration option in the 90s. Sometimes you see interviews with Tony Blair where it looks like he is aware he misjudged this one.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Barbarossa

    still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.

    In the data until 2005, their trend had been converging, although it is not like the Hindu and Caribbean immigrants who were already converged in the 1987-1994.

    In 1987, the nationalities of Pakistan and Bangladesh immigrants of United Kingdom were around half the fertility of their home country.

    Pakistan immigrants in the United Kingdom were from the poorest region of Pakistan, in the new country, they had half of the fertility rate of Pakistan in 1987-1994.

    A funny scenario until 2005 is Bangladesh. Because now Bangladesh country is converging to the United Kingdom even with the vast difference of economic development. It would interesting to know if the Bangladesh immigrants have not converged.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    In the data until 2005, their trend had been converging, although it is not like the Hindu and Caribbean immigrants who were already converged in the 1987-1994.
     
    I had some data that suggested that the white British fertility was around 1.4 per couple, and the Pakistani and West Indian were roughly what is shown on the first graph. I think this was data from later than 2005 but I can't remember where I found it.

    It won't be surprising if the white British fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ+, climate crisis and so on in the last decade, these may be causes or reflections of declining natality.

    I get the sense that some of the ethnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/


    Because now Bangladesh country is converging to the United Kingdom even with the vast difference of economic development. It would interesting to know if the Bangladesh immigrants have not converged.
     
    It would be interesting if there is data available. The decline in Bangladesh itself may have some environmental causes linked to conditions in the country which may or may not apply when the environment is different. I remember when I lived in an area with a Bangladeshi population there seemed to be plenty of children and they had come to form a majority in the local primary school, but that is anecdotal and was around 10 years ago.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  213. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”.
     
    Has it ever occurred to you that both systems might be pretty bad?
    I'm hardly a supporter of what Western countries have turned into, but this constant cheerleading for Russia with all her obvious flaws eventually gets pretty old.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?
     
    Nah, obviously not (and you already knew that), so far the part about suffering in the cold and darkness is way too exaggerated, instantly marks it as a foreign creation. Of course the prospect is pretty bleak, no doubt about that, but the real suffering still lies ahead. If I learn of any genuine German jokes then, I'll tell you.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Has it ever occurred to you that both systems might be pretty bad?

    That’s actually my working hypothesis. However, being a natural (STEM in the American lingo) scientist, I compare two things that actually exist, rather than these things with what I’d like to exist. Quite naturally, neither is perfect. But the comparison is more obvious than what I am used to in my experiments.

    I don’t know too many Brits, Frenchmen, Italians, or Spaniards, but I am personally acquainted with many Germans. I am convinced that the people I know deserve a lot better than what is coming to them. Living in a “democracy” I understand that regular people have no voice whatsoever. Therefore, I just feel sorry for the Germans. Considering how idealistic you really are, you are included.

  214. @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    Not sure I’m getting your point here, I thought Unz was generally pro-Latino? And Mr. Hack and AP at least seem to be rather fond of Mexicans (I have no personal opinion on the matter btw, will leave that to Americans).
     
    I mean the 'multicultural' faction was decisively defeated by the 'assimilationist' one during California's debate over bilingual education. There likely would have been calamitous national consequences if things there went differently.

    Maybe. Or maybe not. The Moors left some genetic traces in Spain, but a lot of the Moriscoes were eventually just expelled, because they still were seen as a potential fifth column even after several generations under Christian rule.
     
    Well I'm just speaking in hypotheticals in terms of Belgium, or any other distant place. If anyone emigrated from Pakistan to England in the past, they obviously couldn't maintain any communication with their homeland, let alone regularly jet-set back and forth to have their daughters private parts mutilated by 'surgeons' so they could honourably marry their cousins in the name of their sick and retarded religion and culture.
    Obviously Spain and Morocco were and are bordering countries, so that's different.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    The ruling class or millionaire Pakistani people are very “Western”, “nontraditional” and “modern”.

    Pakistani person I knew, who was like a stereotype of a secular hipster. He was directly from Pakistan, but you would not feel he was not from Los Angeles or Milan. So, I’m not sure the explanation, that “jet travel” would be the main cause of less assimilating immigrants.

    Pakistan’s immigrants in United Kingdom were mostly not just from the third world, but the most poor and rural peasants, many who had been displaced by modernization projects in Pakistan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris

    Probably these poor people have become more closed societies in the new country.

    I know it’s not a reliable historical source, but the Wikipedia article is showing interesting history in the immigration. The British corporation which had created a dam that displaces their villages in Pakistan, has funded the immigration of the Mirpur people.

    More than 280 villages were submerged by water when the Mangla Dam was built. The towns of Mirpur and Dadyal were also flooded. Around 110,000 people were displaced.[6] Coincidentally, Britain at that time needed cheap workers, mainly for textile factories as British workers had begun to become expensive due to rising wages. Up to 5,000 people from Mirpur (5% of the displaced)[7] left for Britain, and the displaced Mirpuris were given legal and financial assistance by the British contractor that built the dam. Many started working in factories, mostly in the so-called “Black Country” near Birmingham, and in Bradford and Leeds. In some villages of Mirpur, more than half of the people moved to the United Kingdom to settle in the industrial towns.

    The rural, impoverished district provided cheap, unskilled labour for Britain in the 1960s and the 1970s. Families tend to be close-knit and the guiding influence behind everything from marriage to business.[9] In 1960s, Mirpur was considered to be a rural and conservative area. Due to the Mirpuri diaspora, the region witnessed significant economic progress and has become one of the most prosperous areas of Azad Kashmir.[10]

  215. The Assange and Snowden poll on twitter must be the biggest honeypot for bots ever conceived.

  216. From this last thread.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=A123

    When the park was swarmed with non-locals, everyone who actually lived there took a financia

    Afula is a Jewish city in Northern Israel. Majority of the population in Northern Israel are Arab people. It’s a Jewish city surrounded by Arab cities.

    Life in Arab villages in Israel have low investment from the national level and also there is a lot of mafia and high crime, low level of police investment. As the article I posted wrote, because of the problems in the Arab villages, many of the middle class Arab families are starting to immigrate to Jewish cities like Afula. Most of Arabs in Northern Israel are relatively Westernized, most of the Arab women there do not wear hijab. They just want to shop in IKEA or H&M.* They will immigrate to the Jewish cities if they can have a better quality of life like any middle class aspiring people.

    At the same time, the Jewish cities in Northern Israel, are selling property to the Jewish residents, because they are the Jewish cities, not mixed cities. This is their raison d’être to attain new Jewish residents. Mixed cities in Israel are unpopular, because they are often like living in a volcano, when there is a tension in the Israel-Palestine war, For example, in 2021, there was the interethnic violence in the mixed cities Lod, Yafo and Ramle, because of the conflict with the Temple Mount/Al Aqsa in Jerusalem. There were many killings in 2021 in those cities.

    It’s expected Mayor of Afula is protesting to try to prevent Arab families move to his city, as becoming a mixed city would stop him receiving new Jewish residents. But in the same time, the middle class Arab families will still want to move there, because the Jewish cities is where the infrastructure and investment is at a developed country level in Northern Israel. The investment in Arab cities’s infrastructure and police is a bit more like the third world.

    It’s analogous for racial discrimination in cities like Detroit 1930s, of the white suburbs against black people. But, it’s more unsolvable, because it is also responding to the Arab-Israel conflict and religious war in the Middle East, with regular killing, related also to international events.

    Israel’s government has more money now so Netanyahu will try to invest more money to the Arab villages. It was his plan in the 2010s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-okays-nis-15b-upgrade-plan-for-arab-communities/

    So even the far-right politicians, know if the Arab cities had received more investment, there would be less driver to immigrate to Jewish cities in Northern Israel.

    Jaffa situation is more complicated. It has an unusually high religious mix dating back for decades.

    Northern Yafo/Jaffa is a gentrification is like Bedford–Stuyvesant in Brooklyn, which Spike Lee discusses often. It is an attractive real estate because its location is quite central. It also has historical building. Real estate companies can make money doing re-novation of old buildings.

    But there is no escape from racial/religious conflict if Jews immigrate to Yafo, because Yafo was an important center of the Arab-Israel conflict in Mandatory Palestine. The beginning of the Arab revolt in 1936, has beginning with the riot in Yafo in 1935.

    In the 1947 Partition Plan which is the original two-state solution, Yafo was part of the Arab state. In the 1948 Arab-Israel war, half of the Arab population in Yafo has become refugees.

    It is historically one of the most important area of violence in the Arab-Israel conflict and there is still a lot of tension there.

    There is also a small, often over looked, Christian population around the local Church of St. Peter.

    There has been a lot of religious infrastructure, because the port was historically the entrance for the Holy Land. When pilgrims arrive in the Holy Land in the port, they would be first there and cared by the religious institutions.

    Yafo was the door to the Holy land for pilgrims for thousands of years. But today, there is no port (except some small fishing boats). Religious pilgrims come by the airport. There is still potential for a kitsch tourist zone in Northern Yafo.

    [MORE]


    * There are the Arab shoppers in the mall in the Arab capital of Israel (Nazareth). It’s not like Bedouins in Southern Israel. Arabs in Northern Israel mostly don’t wear hijab and are not much different in lifestyle than average modernizing people in a second world Islamic country like Turkey.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry

    Thanks, interesting post. My friends grandparents were from Jaffa. It’s one of the most beautiful areas in the world with lots of developmental potential, so am not surprised if it will be gentrified. Hope they will do it in a tasteful manner and maintain it’s old world building style and charm.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @A123
    @Dmitry


    Life in Arab villages in Israel have low investment from the national level
     
    Israel runs municipal grants & investments largely based on tax and business activity to the national level (∆). Municipalities that generate limited money receive less funding. That is not "discriminatory" based on religion. It is recognition that reinvestment in cities that work generate economic growth. Most successful nations use variations of this policy.

    there is a lot of mafia and high crime, low level of police investment
     
    Arab villages could raise taxes on Arab residents to improve Arab law enforcement (e.g. police investment). They choose not to and opt for blame shifting. This has a strong parallel in America:

    • Certain groups have a propensity for crime.
    • Those groups primarily prey on others of their group.

    American cities that recognize these facts do acceptable jobs. Cities that are delusional -- Minneapolis, Portland, Chicago, San Francisco -- have crime that is out of control.

    because of the problems in the Arab villages, many of the middle class Arab families are starting to immigrate to Jewish cities like Afula.
     
    This has a rough parallel in "post-segregation" America. Stable black communities suddenly became less functional when their leadership class moved out. Some fully collapsed.

    Muslims voluntarily hollowing out Arab villages by leaving can only make the problems worse.

    Arab women there do not wear hijab. They just want to shop in IKEA or H&M.* They will immigrate to the Jewish cities if they can have a better quality of life like any middle class aspiring people.
     
    Certain stores are not present because of lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.

    Why? Could it be lower disposable income? Higher crime risk? Concerns about being burned out if there is a Minneapolis like civil disturbance?

    Businesses would open there if there was a profit motive to do so. If Arab villages improve, private investment will follow. And, the only group to that can drive that change are the Arab residents of Afula, not the national government.

    Israel’s government has more money now so Netanyahu will try to invest more money to the Arab villages. It was his plan in the 2010s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-okays-nis-15b-upgrade-plan-for-arab-communities/

    end of single-family home construction and a transition to high-rise construction, as exists throughout the country. At the same time, the plan will strengthen law enforcement in the minority sector with emphasis on illegal construction.”
     
    So even the far-right politicians, know if the Arab cities had received more investment, there would be less driver to immigrate to Jewish cities in Northern Israel.

     

    Centrist politician Netanyahu will make the attempt, which is good politics. Even if it does not work it will demonstrate his personal commitment to maintain Likud's Centrist credentials and separation from the Right.

    Illegal construction breeds crime, as payments are "off the books". Reducing that practice should produce some immediate gains.

    Dense pack, high-rise living is a much more problematic policy. If Arab residents do not take responsibility for Arab crime against Arabs, it could generate the "Cabrini–Green" effect.

    In the 1947 Partition Plan which is the original two-state solution, Yafo was part of the Arab state. In the 1948 Arab-Israel war, half of the Arab population in Yafo has become refugees.

    It is historically one of the most important area of violence in the Arab-Israel conflict and there is still a lot of tension there.
     

    Mixed cities in Israel are unpopular, because they are often like living in a volcano, when there is a tension
     
    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled including 3,000+ Christians. There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.
    ___

    Over optimism after WW II led to many profound mistakes:

    • The UN is almost certainly the biggest post WW II boondoggle. It is so flawed, it has created & extended wars. Alas, it is much like the EU. Almost everyone realizes that it should be replaced, but there is no consensus on what the new structure should be. For example, India should have a permanent UNSC seat, but the PRC would never allow that.

    • The Balfour Declaration of 1917 for a Jewish "national home" in Palestine followed by the 1922 Palestinian Mandate was a sound starting point. Abrogating those concepts in 1947 was a fiasco. Instead of using the obvious Jordan River Line, the absurd border guaranteed conflict. Experts warned about this at the time. Unfortunately, that sound advice was ignored.

    • France failed to create separate nations for Maronite Lebanon and Muslim Lebanon. Demographers warned this was a mistake, and they were ignored. Partitioning now is much harder than it could have been. However, multicultural Lebanon is now so failed they cannot even select a President. Is there any viable solution other than division?

    • Why is there no Kurdistan? This was an easy problem to fix in the 1940's, but it was ignored.

    There is a pattern where obvious issues were simply skipped post WW II. The consequence is a trail of foreseeable flare ups.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (∆) Due to deals such as Oslo, different investment concepts are legally required in Muslim Occupied Judea & Samaria. These cases are not relevant to the Afula & Jaffa discussion.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  217. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
     
    I just asked whether this joke is German. Not because I hold a pretty common outside Germany belief that Germans don’t have a sense of humor. I know enough Germans to be confident that they do (or, rather the fraction of the population lacking it is about the same in Germany as in other places). It just did not sound quite German to me, that’s all. But you did not answer my question.

    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw?
     
    I don’t think that’s settled. It certainly won’t be China’s junior partner: China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white, having ample natural resources, and having pretty qualified and ambitious workforce.

    domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?
     
    That’s a rather stupid myth spread by the propaganda of dying empire and its even faster deteriorating vassals. Minimal analysis of the facts would dispel it for a person thinking logically. One, in terms of brutality (use of truncheons and tear gas on demonstrators or firearms on citizens) Russian police is way behind the police of self-appointed “democratic” countries. Just remember how Yellow wests were treated in France, or how demonstrators demanding elementary sanity are treated right now all over Europe. Not to mention totally illegal repressions against Jan 6, 2021 demonstrators or police shooting people in the US. Not to mention Assange case, a veritable travesty of justice: a charge faked by Swedish police, that was dropped when it became impossible to deny that it was fake; nonetheless his long detention in solitary confinement in high-security prison in the UK, and now the decision to extradite a person guilty of nothing to the US.

    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”. E.g., Putin’s approval among Russian population is higher than what “democratic” leaders can even dream of (or dare to fake via election fraud). Very recent ban by Congress of a strike of the US railway workers (who, among other things, demanded at least seven days of paid sick leave per year, as right now they have zero) is a fresh example of “democracy”.

    Besides, unlike thoroughly brainwashed docile Europeans and Americans, Russians are not cowards. They rose up against traitorous thieves in 1993, just two years into Yeltsin rule, and the regime had to spill a lot of blood to put down that rebellion.

    So, I can’t predict Russia’s future, but I can predict the future of decrepit Europe.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Yahya

    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,

    That’s obviously a shortcoming. Thanks for make your feelings clear.

    I’ll make sure to quote you to the CCP trolls, as I said–

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1353293444005945349

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russians-are-black/

    We found our house nigger.

    https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/the-kremlin-at-a-crossroads-what

    Anyway, Russia's main export isn't oil/gas as any visitor to Goa or Dubai will tell you.

    , @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,
     

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese
     
    You are welcome to keep posting anything that gets you remunerated. After all, you do it for a living. Most people can’t afford to be too choosy in this.

    It’s not your fault that the reality contradicts the narrative of the side that pays you. In the opinion of the Chinese who live in the Far East and earn their keep by honest work, rather than by Internet posting, Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals. But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others. That’s counterintuitive, considering that locals are not white. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes in more than one country. So, today being white is a geopolitical asset. Naturally, Russians are using every asset they have. As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  218. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN


    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,
     
    That's obviously a shortcoming. Thanks for make your feelings clear.

    I'll make sure to quote you to the CCP trolls, as I said--

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese
     

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AnonfromTN

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russians-are-black/

    We found our house nigger.

    https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/the-kremlin-at-a-crossroads-what

    Anyway, Russia’s main export isn’t oil/gas as any visitor to Goa or Dubai will tell you.

  219. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
     
    I just asked whether this joke is German. Not because I hold a pretty common outside Germany belief that Germans don’t have a sense of humor. I know enough Germans to be confident that they do (or, rather the fraction of the population lacking it is about the same in Germany as in other places). It just did not sound quite German to me, that’s all. But you did not answer my question.

    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw?
     
    I don’t think that’s settled. It certainly won’t be China’s junior partner: China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white, having ample natural resources, and having pretty qualified and ambitious workforce.

    domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?
     
    That’s a rather stupid myth spread by the propaganda of dying empire and its even faster deteriorating vassals. Minimal analysis of the facts would dispel it for a person thinking logically. One, in terms of brutality (use of truncheons and tear gas on demonstrators or firearms on citizens) Russian police is way behind the police of self-appointed “democratic” countries. Just remember how Yellow wests were treated in France, or how demonstrators demanding elementary sanity are treated right now all over Europe. Not to mention totally illegal repressions against Jan 6, 2021 demonstrators or police shooting people in the US. Not to mention Assange case, a veritable travesty of justice: a charge faked by Swedish police, that was dropped when it became impossible to deny that it was fake; nonetheless his long detention in solitary confinement in high-security prison in the UK, and now the decision to extradite a person guilty of nothing to the US.

    It terms of democracy, if we mean real one (government following the desires of the population) Russia is way ahead of Western “democracies”. E.g., Putin’s approval among Russian population is higher than what “democratic” leaders can even dream of (or dare to fake via election fraud). Very recent ban by Congress of a strike of the US railway workers (who, among other things, demanded at least seven days of paid sick leave per year, as right now they have zero) is a fresh example of “democracy”.

    Besides, unlike thoroughly brainwashed docile Europeans and Americans, Russians are not cowards. They rose up against traitorous thieves in 1993, just two years into Yeltsin rule, and the regime had to spill a lot of blood to put down that rebellion.

    So, I can’t predict Russia’s future, but I can predict the future of decrepit Europe.

    Anyway, is that joke really German?

    Replies: @German_reader, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Yahya

    About the only thing Russia has going for it is a less cucked people/culture than Germany and the West.

    Other than that, Germany is superior in almost every other aspect, including governance.

    Sad truth: a 50% non-white Germany is still a better place to live in than an 100% white Russia.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Yahya

    Russia super supporter Professor Janissar has somehow managed to live in the US for more than 20 years, and not in Russia. How does he manage to suffer so??.......

    https://www.tbsnews.net/sites/default/files/styles/big_3/public/images/2022/04/07/russia_us_hasina_cartoon_2_final.png

    Take that college pension and run - Mother Russia awaits its true patriots, Prof Janissar. Don't put off returning any longer. Breathe free again!

  220. @Dmitry
    @A123

    From this last thread.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=A123


    When the park was swarmed with non-locals, everyone who actually lived there took a financia
     
    Afula is a Jewish city in Northern Israel. Majority of the population in Northern Israel are Arab people. It's a Jewish city surrounded by Arab cities.

    Life in Arab villages in Israel have low investment from the national level and also there is a lot of mafia and high crime, low level of police investment. As the article I posted wrote, because of the problems in the Arab villages, many of the middle class Arab families are starting to immigrate to Jewish cities like Afula. Most of Arabs in Northern Israel are relatively Westernized, most of the Arab women there do not wear hijab. They just want to shop in IKEA or H&M.* They will immigrate to the Jewish cities if they can have a better quality of life like any middle class aspiring people.

    At the same time, the Jewish cities in Northern Israel, are selling property to the Jewish residents, because they are the Jewish cities, not mixed cities. This is their raison d'être to attain new Jewish residents. Mixed cities in Israel are unpopular, because they are often like living in a volcano, when there is a tension in the Israel-Palestine war, For example, in 2021, there was the interethnic violence in the mixed cities Lod, Yafo and Ramle, because of the conflict with the Temple Mount/Al Aqsa in Jerusalem. There were many killings in 2021 in those cities.

    It's expected Mayor of Afula is protesting to try to prevent Arab families move to his city, as becoming a mixed city would stop him receiving new Jewish residents. But in the same time, the middle class Arab families will still want to move there, because the Jewish cities is where the infrastructure and investment is at a developed country level in Northern Israel. The investment in Arab cities's infrastructure and police is a bit more like the third world.

    It's analogous for racial discrimination in cities like Detroit 1930s, of the white suburbs against black people. But, it's more unsolvable, because it is also responding to the Arab-Israel conflict and religious war in the Middle East, with regular killing, related also to international events.

    Israel's government has more money now so Netanyahu will try to invest more money to the Arab villages. It was his plan in the 2010s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-okays-nis-15b-upgrade-plan-for-arab-communities/

    So even the far-right politicians, know if the Arab cities had received more investment, there would be less driver to immigrate to Jewish cities in Northern Israel.


    Jaffa situation is more complicated. It has an unusually high religious mix dating back for decades.
     
    Northern Yafo/Jaffa is a gentrification is like Bedford–Stuyvesant in Brooklyn, which Spike Lee discusses often. It is an attractive real estate because its location is quite central. It also has historical building. Real estate companies can make money doing re-novation of old buildings.

    But there is no escape from racial/religious conflict if Jews immigrate to Yafo, because Yafo was an important center of the Arab-Israel conflict in Mandatory Palestine. The beginning of the Arab revolt in 1936, has beginning with the riot in Yafo in 1935.

    In the 1947 Partition Plan which is the original two-state solution, Yafo was part of the Arab state. In the 1948 Arab-Israel war, half of the Arab population in Yafo has become refugees.

    It is historically one of the most important area of violence in the Arab-Israel conflict and there is still a lot of tension there.


    There is also a small, often over looked, Christian population around the local Church of St. Peter.

     

    There has been a lot of religious infrastructure, because the port was historically the entrance for the Holy Land. When pilgrims arrive in the Holy Land in the port, they would be first there and cared by the religious institutions.

    Yafo was the door to the Holy land for pilgrims for thousands of years. But today, there is no port (except some small fishing boats). Religious pilgrims come by the airport. There is still potential for a kitsch tourist zone in Northern Yafo.

    -
    * There are the Arab shoppers in the mall in the Arab capital of Israel (Nazareth). It's not like Bedouins in Southern Israel. Arabs in Northern Israel mostly don't wear hijab and are not much different in lifestyle than average modernizing people in a second world Islamic country like Turkey.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF36tpyaU0Q

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    Thanks, interesting post. My friends grandparents were from Jaffa. It’s one of the most beautiful areas in the world with lots of developmental potential, so am not surprised if it will be gentrified. Hope they will do it in a tasteful manner and maintain it’s old world building style and charm.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    lots of developmental potential, so am not surprised if it will be gentrified. Hope they will do it in a tasteful manner

     

    Ancient and Ottoman building in the old port of Jaffa/Yafo is a tourist zone. So, the more ancient buildings don't change which is good, but the shops are selling kitsch things to tourists which less attractive.

    The main shopping street at the North of Yafo with a 19th century Ottoman tower has become a 4-lane highway and with unpleasant cars and traffic. That is how you can damage the historical atmosphere. You don't need ethnic cleansing, just cars. They need to pedestrianize all the area, but there is probably no plan for this. So, I don't think it is such a successful area, even aside from its tensions of the Arab-Israel conflict.

    The old working class suburb that was built in the late 19th century above Yafo (Neve Tzedek) has become gentrified and became a leisure area with cafes.

    Gentrification there, seems like a successful example.
    1. Mostly cars do not drive there (less noise/pollution).
    2. Middle class people moved there but didn't clean it too much. They were happy to allow it to continue the appearance of the shabby 19th century streets. At least for now they are not driving SUVs in the small streets.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu0onKKDdwc

  221. @silviosilver
    @Sher Singh


    Hinterland America
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phvpFNUx5Hg&t=44s

    Is that any worse than shitlibs keeping a straight face as they pretend a tranny is a real woman? At least shitlibs appeal to science to justify their values (they fail, but at least it's science they appeal to). Tongue speakers and faith healers, on the other hand...

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Sher Singh

    Have wondered what the exact implications are of the 0.5 SD difference in general knowledge between the sexes are, even without considering any of the other differences. Like what does it mean for female jurors or voters?

    I remember playing some trivia game in high school, boys vs. girls, and the girls got obliterated.

    , @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    That sounds like some of Anglin's style idiocy. That stuff is as just about as cracked as any stupidification from the Woke left. It's really from the same line of reasoning in that it rejects any natural form of relations between the sexes.

    Liberalism is really demeaning to women and men both because it destroys their unique and worthy attributes and roles. I make no bones about telling my wife that what she does all day with the kids is actually more important than what I do with my day working. My income makes that possible and there are plenty of other contributions I make too in the family, but her influence is going to have the most direct persistent influence.

    My understanding is that cow slaughter is blasphemy to Sikhs in part because of the mother role that the cow plays as sustainer and life giver to the wider community. The cow embodies an aspect of the Divine Feminine, just as the Sikh male and his weapons embodies important aspects of the Divine Masculine. In a similar way the wife and mother properly embodies the Divine attributes, also as sustainer and life giver to the community. Liberalism itself is basically blasphemy to human relations in that it fundamentally destroys the modelling of Divine attributes in male and female.

    Any religious interpretation which is fundamentally misogynistic or anti-woman is misguided since it eliminates proper balance and interplay between the Divine attributes.

    Would it be possible for a Sikh to venerate the cow while scorning their wife or mother? It wouldn't make much sense to me. And so I don't see it "based" at all to denigrate women as a whole. It's however important to criticize the perversions of womanhood which exist without forgetting that this is not what it should be. For what it's worth, my wife is actually more vocally intolerant of most of her fellow American women than I am. For her you could say that it's a bit more personal.

    Feel free to dispute any of the above, but it seems to follow from my own religious understanding and of the rudiments I understand of Sikhism.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  222. If we move towards the TFR of our entertainment, how many people the world over have K-pop and K-dramas winked out of existence?

  223. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.
     
    In the data until 2005, their trend had been converging, although it is not like the Hindu and Caribbean immigrants who were already converged in the 1987-1994.

    https://i.imgur.com/vYaNQtz.jpg

    In 1987, the nationalities of Pakistan and Bangladesh immigrants of United Kingdom were around half the fertility of their home country.

    Pakistan immigrants in the United Kingdom were from the poorest region of Pakistan, in the new country, they had half of the fertility rate of Pakistan in 1987-1994.

    A funny scenario until 2005 is Bangladesh. Because now Bangladesh country is converging to the United Kingdom even with the vast difference of economic development. It would interesting to know if the Bangladesh immigrants have not converged.

    https://i.imgur.com/eR4ZKCX.jpg

    Replies: @Coconuts

    In the data until 2005, their trend had been converging, although it is not like the Hindu and Caribbean immigrants who were already converged in the 1987-1994.

    I had some data that suggested that the white British fertility was around 1.4 per couple, and the Pakistani and West Indian were roughly what is shown on the first graph. I think this was data from later than 2005 but I can’t remember where I found it.

    It won’t be surprising if the white British fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ+, climate crisis and so on in the last decade, these may be causes or reflections of declining natality.

    I get the sense that some of the ethnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/

    Because now Bangladesh country is converging to the United Kingdom even with the vast difference of economic development. It would interesting to know if the Bangladesh immigrants have not converged.

    It would be interesting if there is data available. The decline in Bangladesh itself may have some environmental causes linked to conditions in the country which may or may not apply when the environment is different. I remember when I lived in an area with a Bangladeshi population there seemed to be plenty of children and they had come to form a majority in the local primary school, but that is anecdotal and was around 10 years ago.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Coconuts

    thnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/

     

    You can see the main young Catholics in United Kingdom are immigrants like Poles, Indians, Mexicans etc.

    But then Catholic Poland has a lower fertility rate than United Kingdom, so the religion is often not relevant (normal religions like Catholicism are not high-demand cults that influence behavior like Amish, Chasidism or Mormonism).

    Religion is probably matching with assimilation level for immigrants. So, it could be more indicator of the fertility culture assimilation of the immigrants from third world countries which didn't have demographic transition. For example, East African immigrants will have much higher fertility rates than people in developed countries. Their religion can be indicator of not assimilating to the culture of the new country. But immigrants from areas which have demographic transition like Poland, would likely not have much difference, as the culture in the home country is the same as the new country (or more low fertility culture than North Western Europe).


    fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ
     
    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn't match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.

    Lowest fertility countries in Northern Europe are Ukraine, Belarus and slavic population (excluding the minorities) of Russia. These are very feminist countries, but are not promoting LGBT symbols. But slavic fertility rate in postsoviet countries has been lower than the West for many decades. Scandinavian liberals have higher fertility rates than slavic postsoviet population, even with much higher economic development.

    On the other hand, there is theocracy in Iran, which doesn't promote LGBT or feminism. But Iran's fertility rate is going below replacement, like West, but with also lower economic level.

    Israel adds LGBT flags everywhere and described by some people as a "feminist dictatorship", but the fertility rate for the secular population is higher than Saudi Arabia, which uses Sharia law.

    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples' heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina. It's always not easy to explain the differences between countries, but it's not very simple when the world's most theocratic countries have lower fertility than Argentina.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

  224. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN

    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
    I get it, you feel a mixture of schadenfreude and disappointment. Ok. And yes, Germany, and with it much of Europe, is screwed. Anything else?
    What's your view of Russia's future btw? China's junior partner and wannabe benefactor of negroes in places like Burkina Faso, and domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @songbird

    China’s junior partner

    It doesn’t work that way:

    1. PRC has good relations with Ukraine, who in turn is probably not going to go against China on the Taiwan Question.

    2. Few PRC elites want to move to Russia, and no Russians want to move to China. Recently top Chicom propagandist Zhao Lijian was outted as having been living in Germany. And Jack Ma has moved to Japan,

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/29/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-hiding-out-in-tokyo-reports-say

    3. Russia’s tradition in the Far East is to instigate enmity between China and Japan. Herr Professor from TN said in the last thread the equivalent of– I have English colleagues, and most of them hate Germans, and the feeling is mutual.

    And here we are again:

    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-planned-attack-japan-2021-fsb-letters-1762133

    https://news.usni.org/2022/11/30/japanese-korean-fighters-scrambled-in-response-to-joint-russia-china-bomber-patrol

    But he’s right about Russia selling more crucial commodities. PRC exports alot of trinkets which people can figure to do without.

    Wagenknecht did an interview together with Alice Weidel and looked like they had alot of chemistry together. Mega geil.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Ukraine, who in turn is probably not going to go against China on the Taiwan Question.
     
    There is a big difference between Ukraine and current regime in Kiev. This regime has no agency. Its “opinions” are dictated to it by the puppeteers. The cancellation of the sale of Motor Sich to Chinese investors on puppeteers’ command is a good illustration. After getting rid of current puppet regime, Ukraine will have good relations with China, among many other countries.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  225. Leaders of Moscow controlled Orthodox Church in Chernivtsi have Russian passports On Nov 25th, the Security Service of Ukraine conducted searches on the territory of the Chernivtsi and Bukovyna Diocese of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate and found documents confirming that its leaders have Russian citizenship. The lawfully conducted searches also revealed millions in cash and subversive pro-Russian and imperialist materials. Since Ukraine’s independence, the Moscow controlled church has been insisting that it is independent and most recently claims to have stopped commemorating Kirill – Moscow’s head cleric. Both the results of the searches and Dmitry Peskov’s comments suggest otherwise – the Press Secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, announced that “searches at the Kyiv-Pecherska Lavra (the Monastery of the Caves) show that Ukraine is at war with the Russian Orthodox Church.” A historical fact: the Kyiv-Pecherska Lavra (the Monastery of the Caves) along with the Mohyla Academy were created under the Ukrainian Cossack Hetman state, long before Moscow had any jurisdiction over Ukraine or Russia existed. While independent Ukraine has tolerated the Moscow controlled Church organization on it’s territories under religious freedom laws, it is noteworthy that there is not a single Ukrainian Church – Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Evangelical or other denomination – worshiping on the territory of the Russian Federation.

    Russia spent a quarter of its GDP to kill Ukrainians
    During nine months of its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia has spent $82 billion on war, which is a quarter of its annual budget, according to Forbes. They calculated that Russia used 10,000 to 50,000 shells per day in the war, and the average price of a Soviet-caliber shell is about $1,000. It brings Russia’s spending to more than $5.5 billion on artillery supplies alone.

  226. @Sher Singh
    @silviosilver

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1048894931890098206/image.png

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Have wondered what the exact implications are of the 0.5 SD difference in general knowledge between the sexes are, even without considering any of the other differences. Like what does it mean for female jurors or voters?

    I remember playing some trivia game in high school, boys vs. girls, and the girls got obliterated.

  227. @Yahya
    @AnonfromTN

    About the only thing Russia has going for it is a less cucked people/culture than Germany and the West.

    Other than that, Germany is superior in almost every other aspect, including governance.

    Sad truth: a 50% non-white Germany is still a better place to live in than an 100% white Russia.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Russia super supporter Professor Janissar has somehow managed to live in the US for more than 20 years, and not in Russia. How does he manage to suffer so??…….

    Take that college pension and run – Mother Russia awaits its true patriots, Prof Janissar. Don’t put off returning any longer. Breathe free again!

  228. Under Bukele, El Salvador seems to be showing more state capacity than I thought it was capable of:

    [MORE]

    Perhaps, liberalist ideas diminish the state capacity of a lot of the Third World.

  229. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    Have Western leaders thought through this latest move to cap the price of Russian oil and enforce it worldwide through Western insurance companies or is this going to hit us all again like a ton of bricks at the pump and the grocery stores?
     
    The latter is about to happen. Here is the view from The Economist:
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/11/30/the-wests-proposed-price-cap-on-russian-oil-is-no-magic-weapon

    Nothing new, though. The EU introduced umpteenth packet of sanctions against Russia. Net result: Russian cities shine at night like a Christmas tree in a rich house, whereas Europe in in darkness. Europe is preparing for worse times. Switzerland is even planning to ban EVs and limit the temperature at which you can launder your clothes to save electricity. As Russian saying puts it, that’s how you teach the fools.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikel

    Regardless of how much one thinks that we should support Ukraine, everybody should demand basic competence from our economic authorities, like making sure that the sanctions they impose don’t harm us more than the intended recipient. This is exactly what happened with the initial sanctions centered around gas and I’m wondering if any lesson was learned.

    They have the public on their side. The MSM has made sure of that and, frankly, so has Russia by starting this brutal war of choice. But you don’t mess with the price of oil. It affects absolutely everything. Either they have been planning things very carefully during these past months of deliberations about the oil price cap or we’re headed towards another disaster that will disproportionately harm the more vulnerable people without having any effect on the war.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    Either they have been planning things very carefully during these past months of deliberations about the oil price cap or we’re headed towards another disaster that will disproportionately harm the more vulnerable people without having any effect on the war.
     
    Follow oils and natural gas prices for the next month or two and you get clear answer to your question.

    BTW, footage of protests against supporting Ukraine (naturally, on politically incorrect news channels) shows total lack of street illumination not only in Leipzig, but also in Madrid and Rome.
  230. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN


    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,
     
    That's obviously a shortcoming. Thanks for make your feelings clear.

    I'll make sure to quote you to the CCP trolls, as I said--

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese
     

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AnonfromTN

    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese

    You are welcome to keep posting anything that gets you remunerated. After all, you do it for a living. Most people can’t afford to be too choosy in this.

    It’s not your fault that the reality contradicts the narrative of the side that pays you. In the opinion of the Chinese who live in the Far East and earn their keep by honest work, rather than by Internet posting, Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals. But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others. That’s counterintuitive, considering that locals are not white. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes in more than one country. So, today being white is a geopolitical asset. Naturally, Russians are using every asset they have. As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonfromTN


    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.
     
    Would say that it is a geopolitical liability because it means that one's national and cultural power base is significantly eroded and under attack.

    I do agree that there is a certain legacy-based status accorded to Euros in certain areas. China, SK, perhaps, Japan and some other places. (Though, it is a question how long it can continue, as people learn about the transformation of places like Paris)

    But even if it persists and has a value for starting business relationships, then arguably it is hackable by hiring "white monkeys" to facilitate these relationships.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    For a scientist you do like to argue with anecdotes rather than data.

    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school? I can claim that I heard from Svetlana and Yulia this and that.


    Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals.
     
    Russians in the land formerly of Qing China treating the Chinese as equals. Is that what you are claiming?

    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.
     
    Good for you.

    Bashibuzuk and I had a nice academic exchange about the cliché Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tartare. Obviously you weren't paying attention,


    The Anglosphere gets hanged up on a sharp division between East and West Eurasians, but Eurasian nomads should have always been a mix of Europoid and Mongloid features, like Putin and Shoigu.

     


    Yes I agree, they have intermixed since times immemorial. I mean, already by the times of the Botaï culture, there was a mixed Western Eurasian / Eastern Eurasian population. There is a haplogroup cline going West to East in Eurasia but it is thousand years old, well before the advent of the historically recorded populations.

     

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5638069

    As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.
     
    All of "us" as in what? Slav nation? White Christendom?

    Who's Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

  231. Iraqi Information Minister reviews

    Mount Analogue
    Rene Daumal
    tr. Roger Shattuck
    pub Exact Change, 2019, orig. 1952 in French, translated in English in 1959
    157 pp

    This book is unfinished due to the author’s death. What is here is spectacularly not complete but there are many copies of it, it is much read, and the commentary on it is all over the place. I found it an inspiration to my own inclinations to mentally jump all over the place. But I will contain myself here to what you may easily verify for yourself. It would not take you long. If you don’t dally you can read the entire (part) book in less than ninety minutes.

    It is what I would call a fantasy, albeit wikipedia calls it pataphysics and Daumal’s cohort were the Surrealists in Paris between WWI and WWII. Daumal died at 36 y.o. in 1944. (Like a good early twentieth century artist genius he died from tuberculosis.)

    The setting for the story is an ancient one. Other names: Atlantis, Thule, Shangri La, Shambala, King of the World, Prester John. Mount Analogue is a storied mountain on an island in the middle of the south Pacific Ocean, halfway from New Zealand to Chile. It is taller than Everest and it is not on any maps because you have to sneak in there. It can only be viewed from outside its hiding place at sunrise or at sunset from the exact east or the exact west due to the (hypothetical and not commonly known) optical properties of the near ocean atmosphere. To locate it requires some (hypothetical and not commonly known) straightforward (although Daumal’s presentation is erroneous) examination of continental land mass distribution.

    You draw a line of latitude through the biggest stretch of dry land. Daumal makes this 52 degrees north. You draw a line of longitude through the biggest stretch of dry land. Daumal makes this 20 degrees east. This is the hypothetical maximum of mapped earth lopsidedness. Mount Analogue is located at the antipode to this point for balance.

    **Reality digression. George Airy and isostasy were 19th C and presumably Daumal knows how silly this is. Nevertheless I am not so sure because (A.) he writes that the point of maximum lopsidedness is inside a quadrilateral defined by Warsaw, Minsk, Cracow, and Kiev and (B.) (20,50) is not even close to being contained inside this quadrilateral. Perhaps that error is an artifact of this being a first draft and he would have cleaned up such details in the re-writes. I will stop nitpicking now and press on.

    The protagonist of Mount Analogue and a few companions meet an eccentric mad scientist who has figured all of this out and leads them on an expedition to find and climb Mount Analogue. They find it and commence to climbing it. They make it to first climbing camp when the real life Daumal dies and leaves the book unfinished. In the process of meeting the eccentric mad scientist and traveling with him our hero is exposed to a few profound truths about the Real Universe and Spirituality. They are small asides in the 150 pages but they are deep. Or at least the cult of readers of this book and writers of the meaning contained find them deep.

    He explains the fear of death, the power of thought, and the meaning of life. He has a great short American Indian myth which I had seen long ago and you also may perhaps already have seen. The Hollow Men and the Bitter Rose.

    For example here: https://nonrelevant.tumblr.com/post/79553977911/amp

    Mount Analogue is populated by the descendants of earlier explorers at the base and ruled by a very small subset of them (guides) who live on the upper slopes. The base residents are simple folk. The guides are fanatical environmentalists and eugenicists.

    In the appendix to the edition I read there is a short poem by Daumal from his hoard of unpublished papers salvaged after he died.

    This is how I sum up for myself what I wish to
    convey to those who work here with me:
    I am dead because I lack desire;
    I lack desire because I think I possess;
    I think I possess because I do not try to give.

    In trying to give you see that you have nothing;
    Seeing you have nothing you try to give of yourself;
    Trying to give of yourself you see that you are nothing;
    Seeing you are nothing you desire to become;
    In desiring to become you begin to live.

  232. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN

    How many more variations of that joke do you want to tell me?
    I get it, you feel a mixture of schadenfreude and disappointment. Ok. And yes, Germany, and with it much of Europe, is screwed. Anything else?
    What's your view of Russia's future btw? China's junior partner and wannabe benefactor of negroes in places like Burkina Faso, and domestically continued rule by increasingly geriatric security service elites?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @songbird

    What’s your view of Russia’s future btw? China’s junior partner

    Don’t think it is especially likely, but I would say there is at least a possibility that Russia becomes dominant again.

    That would be Russia righting its demographic decline, while China fails to, or is late to the party. Maybe, some core of Euro professionals being drawn to Russia, as the West reaches a more significant threshold of decline. It may also be possible, that China makes a precipitous move on Taiwan, which weakens it significantly.

    Of course, there are no signs of this happening now, and people like Zeihan are already dancing on Russia’s grave, saying demographic trends mean it will cease to exist in 50 years time. Seems a bit premature to me, especially as he takes such a blank-slatist view of age cohorts in the West.

  233. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @German_reader


    China’s junior partner
     
    It doesn't work that way:

    1. PRC has good relations with Ukraine, who in turn is probably not going to go against China on the Taiwan Question.

    2. Few PRC elites want to move to Russia, and no Russians want to move to China. Recently top Chicom propagandist Zhao Lijian was outted as having been living in Germany. And Jack Ma has moved to Japan,

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/29/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-hiding-out-in-tokyo-reports-say

    3. Russia's tradition in the Far East is to instigate enmity between China and Japan. Herr Professor from TN said in the last thread the equivalent of-- I have English colleagues, and most of them hate Germans, and the feeling is mutual.

    And here we are again:

    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-planned-attack-japan-2021-fsb-letters-1762133

    https://news.usni.org/2022/11/30/japanese-korean-fighters-scrambled-in-response-to-joint-russia-china-bomber-patrol

    But he's right about Russia selling more crucial commodities. PRC exports alot of trinkets which people can figure to do without.

    Wagenknecht did an interview together with Alice Weidel and looked like they had alot of chemistry together. Mega geil.

    https://youtu.be/1U_DamvhkWs?t=3601

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Ukraine, who in turn is probably not going to go against China on the Taiwan Question.

    There is a big difference between Ukraine and current regime in Kiev. This regime has no agency. Its “opinions” are dictated to it by the puppeteers. The cancellation of the sale of Motor Sich to Chinese investors on puppeteers’ command is a good illustration. After getting rid of current puppet regime, Ukraine will have good relations with China, among many other countries.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    Puppeteers as in the West. The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.

    Yet you are also arguing for "white" superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the "yellow" Chinese.

    Go work on your logic skills.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

  234. @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN

    Regardless of how much one thinks that we should support Ukraine, everybody should demand basic competence from our economic authorities, like making sure that the sanctions they impose don't harm us more than the intended recipient. This is exactly what happened with the initial sanctions centered around gas and I'm wondering if any lesson was learned.

    They have the public on their side. The MSM has made sure of that and, frankly, so has Russia by starting this brutal war of choice. But you don't mess with the price of oil. It affects absolutely everything. Either they have been planning things very carefully during these past months of deliberations about the oil price cap or we're headed towards another disaster that will disproportionately harm the more vulnerable people without having any effect on the war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Either they have been planning things very carefully during these past months of deliberations about the oil price cap or we’re headed towards another disaster that will disproportionately harm the more vulnerable people without having any effect on the war.

    Follow oils and natural gas prices for the next month or two and you get clear answer to your question.

    BTW, footage of protests against supporting Ukraine (naturally, on politically incorrect news channels) shows total lack of street illumination not only in Leipzig, but also in Madrid and Rome.

  235. @Sher Singh
    @silviosilver

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1048894931890098206/image.png

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    That sounds like some of Anglin’s style idiocy. That stuff is as just about as cracked as any stupidification from the Woke left. It’s really from the same line of reasoning in that it rejects any natural form of relations between the sexes.

    Liberalism is really demeaning to women and men both because it destroys their unique and worthy attributes and roles. I make no bones about telling my wife that what she does all day with the kids is actually more important than what I do with my day working. My income makes that possible and there are plenty of other contributions I make too in the family, but her influence is going to have the most direct persistent influence.

    My understanding is that cow slaughter is blasphemy to Sikhs in part because of the mother role that the cow plays as sustainer and life giver to the wider community. The cow embodies an aspect of the Divine Feminine, just as the Sikh male and his weapons embodies important aspects of the Divine Masculine. In a similar way the wife and mother properly embodies the Divine attributes, also as sustainer and life giver to the community. Liberalism itself is basically blasphemy to human relations in that it fundamentally destroys the modelling of Divine attributes in male and female.

    Any religious interpretation which is fundamentally misogynistic or anti-woman is misguided since it eliminates proper balance and interplay between the Divine attributes.

    Would it be possible for a Sikh to venerate the cow while scorning their wife or mother? It wouldn’t make much sense to me. And so I don’t see it “based” at all to denigrate women as a whole. It’s however important to criticize the perversions of womanhood which exist without forgetting that this is not what it should be. For what it’s worth, my wife is actually more vocally intolerant of most of her fellow American women than I am. For her you could say that it’s a bit more personal.

    Feel free to dispute any of the above, but it seems to follow from my own religious understanding and of the rudiments I understand of Sikhism.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    No.

    The Guru's found on the Edge of the Sword, the Tip of the Bullet, Powder Charge of Artillery.

    https://twitter.com/kalgidhardifauj/status/1593667779600711680

    You're overthinking it & Weapons are the Divine Feminine - How else are women won?


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  236. @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,
     

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese
     
    You are welcome to keep posting anything that gets you remunerated. After all, you do it for a living. Most people can’t afford to be too choosy in this.

    It’s not your fault that the reality contradicts the narrative of the side that pays you. In the opinion of the Chinese who live in the Far East and earn their keep by honest work, rather than by Internet posting, Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals. But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others. That’s counterintuitive, considering that locals are not white. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes in more than one country. So, today being white is a geopolitical asset. Naturally, Russians are using every asset they have. As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.

    Would say that it is a geopolitical liability because it means that one’s national and cultural power base is significantly eroded and under attack.

    I do agree that there is a certain legacy-based status accorded to Euros in certain areas. China, SK, perhaps, Japan and some other places. (Though, it is a question how long it can continue, as people learn about the transformation of places like Paris)

    But even if it persists and has a value for starting business relationships, then arguably it is hackable by hiring “white monkeys” to facilitate these relationships.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    Would say that it is a geopolitical liability because it means that one’s national and cultural power base is significantly eroded and under attack.
     
    The enabling effect of whiteness is still there, although I don’t expect it to last more than two-three decades. Whiteness might become a liability eventually, but that will happen after geopolitical restructuring of the world is over.

    Here is something I would not believe if I hadn’t seen it myself. Across Indonesian islands there is a visible gradient of skin pigmentation, with the lightest end being Java and the darkest Papua. Lighter-skinned Indonesians believe that darker-skinned ones are inferior. Half of the items in their cosmetics section are various “whitening creams”. Even though objectively with their natural color most local girls are prettier than 99% of white Dutch and British women.

    Replies: @songbird

  237. @Coconuts
    @Barbarossa


    However, if that neutering of the natives is perceived as complete by the technocrats then you can expect a more forcible action against the formerly sacred “vibrant” communities. Once they have outlived their direct usefulness they will have to learn to be more properly submissive cogs to the glorious future.
     
    In Europe I am starting to doubt whether this will be possible. You can see in the UK that a lot of the bigger ethnic minority communities are becoming diasporas, closely connected to countries with much larger (and more youthful) populations. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are still bringing in wives/husbands from their homelands each generation. The fact they are minorities promotes higher levels of group solidarity, they seem to be retaining or reviving traditional religion/customs and afaik, still maintain a higher birthrate, about double that of the white British.

    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives, but the latter may be just surrendering to new pressures and realities created by more youthful population groups.

    The things GR and Yevardian mentioned, the state trying to micro-manage things and failing due to advancing idiocracy and divided citizenry and the development of overtly communal politics don't seem like implausible possibilities for the future.

    I wonder now whether progressives and globalists had clear ideas of what they were doing when they started pursuing the mass-migration option in the 90s. Sometimes you see interviews with Tony Blair where it looks like he is aware he misjudged this one.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Barbarossa

    In reply to GR and yourself, I don’t discount the possibility that the liberal establishment has miscalculated on mass immigration. The establishment has a supreme faith in it’s ability that all things are fundamentally manageable. This led to a lot of the stupidity around Covid responses. Some things in this world cannot be infinitely managed.

    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I’ve said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it’s current trajectory. Anything that undermines that seriously is okay with me. It doesn’t mean that I will like a great many of the direct consequences of that, since it will continue to cause more societal breakdown and chaos.

    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives,

    I’m not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn’t matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.

    What I’m thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society. If those groups refuse to integrate then they will start getting increasingly more overt pressure to do so.

    the development of overtly communal politics

    I think this plausible and is not a possibility that I’m opposed to since aligning politics more on the lines of direct and local material concerns is more reasonable than more prone to manipulation theoretical national politics.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Barbarossa


    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I’ve said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it’s current trajectory.
     
    Some are saying that they are becoming aware of this and trying to ease off on the Wokeness and intersectionality as a result, but I think that the growth in these groups will be too rapid for them to be integrated into Western liberalism. They also stay in contact with significant cultural influences from outside Europe, which are likely to be more significant in the future. (Population of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India dwarfs that of the white British and is more youthful, same with the developing African diasporas).

    There is a good book by Patrick Deneen 'Why Liberalism Failed', this has some good arguments and predictions about where liberalism is going and why it won't work longer term. Another one called 'The Demon in Democracy' by Ryszard Legutko adds some new angles and depth that is relevant for Europe. Legutko is a Polish politician and professor of political philosophy and was a dissident under Communism, he looks at similarities and differences between applied socialism and liberalism.

    Given these titles were written in the early-mid 2010s the predictions in them have proved surprisingly accurate.


    I’m not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn’t matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.
     
    One of the quirky features of intersectionality is that ethnic minorities are not directly encouraged to accept liberalism, there is even a certain suspicion of it (as white and western). I suspect the grass roots pressure pushing for decolonisation of culture and education etc. is motivated by ethnocentrism and a desire to see it reflect their own ethnic group's history and experience. I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British, I can imagine what a classroom today might be like where the majority are Pakistani or Bangladeshi background and still having to study the same authors.

    With these groups the issues go beyond skin colour, this is usually a secondary thing compared to the cultural and religious differences, different historical experiences etc.

    What I’m thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society.
     
    From what I have seen they like it, but their income levels don't generally rise beyond the lower levels, so they don't move beyond the consumerism of the remaining British working class (mostly following the less prosperous Northern version of the culture). At the same time these communities currently don't have the same level of the social problems with drugs and broken families that the white working class does.

    I don't know how long it would take to raise them to the level of the consumption patterns of the middle classes, if it was possible. I tend to see the middle classes as being both the biggest supporters of liberalism, and the most at risk from it.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123

  238. @songbird
    @AnonfromTN


    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.
     
    Would say that it is a geopolitical liability because it means that one's national and cultural power base is significantly eroded and under attack.

    I do agree that there is a certain legacy-based status accorded to Euros in certain areas. China, SK, perhaps, Japan and some other places. (Though, it is a question how long it can continue, as people learn about the transformation of places like Paris)

    But even if it persists and has a value for starting business relationships, then arguably it is hackable by hiring "white monkeys" to facilitate these relationships.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Would say that it is a geopolitical liability because it means that one’s national and cultural power base is significantly eroded and under attack.

    The enabling effect of whiteness is still there, although I don’t expect it to last more than two-three decades. Whiteness might become a liability eventually, but that will happen after geopolitical restructuring of the world is over.

    Here is something I would not believe if I hadn’t seen it myself. Across Indonesian islands there is a visible gradient of skin pigmentation, with the lightest end being Java and the darkest Papua. Lighter-skinned Indonesians believe that darker-skinned ones are inferior. Half of the items in their cosmetics section are various “whitening creams”. Even though objectively with their natural color most local girls are prettier than 99% of white Dutch and British women.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonfromTN

    Indonesia certainly is a remarkable country both for its natural diversity and geographic scope. 700 spoken languages, though independent PNG has more.

    Not sure what it would have looked like if the Dutch hadn't been there to consolidate it. Though I suppose the Javanese probably would have still dominated the area, based on numbers.

  239. Apparently the religious police in Iran will be disbanded. So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions. Will be interesting to see if it’s enough or too little, too late.

    • Replies: @A123
    @German_reader


    Apparently the religious police in Iran will be disbanded. So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions. Will be interesting to see if it’s enough or too little, too late.
     
    It is hard to see how the Ayatollah can offer concessions and survive. The rule of Islamic Revolutionaries is grounded in religious extremism.

    Iran Abolishes Morality Police. Or Did They?

    Iran’s Attorney General Mohammad Jafar Montazeri announced on Saturday night that the hated Morality Police would be disbanded. The news was broadcast over state media outlets but was not confirmed by the Interior Ministry.

    President Ebrahim Raisi said there would be no discussions of reform until the “riots” ended. That may still be true, as Montazeri pointed out that the Morality Police were not under the judiciary’s authority and would continue “to monitor behavioral actions at the community level.”

    Iranians are skeptical.

    Arash Azizi آرش عزیزی

    Montazeri said the patrol wasn't the business of the judiciary but of the police so "they launched it and they shut it themselves." He quickly added that the Judiciary would still monitor "behavior in society"

    Iran's regime media have also been quick at work, clarifying the the issue and denying that Guidance Patrol has been shut.
     
    The Iranian government is extremely factionalized and it’s not unusual for one faction to promote a policy or action while another faction opposed it. And with rumors that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei is seriously ill, it might even be a question of “who’s in charge”?
     
    Knowing that change is coming, officials are jockeying for position (and personal survival).

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2022/12/04/iran-abolishes-morality-police-or-did-they-n1650786
    , @Yahya
    @German_reader


    So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions.
     
    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position. I.e. the 1905 October manefsito in Russia reduced the Tsar’s position irrevocably until he was deposed (this being delayed due largely to Stolypin’s astute leadership). Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Matra

  240. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/26451399-functional-training

    The Amazon widget output does not go through Unz's input in some OS-browser combinations. I quit posting Amazon links for awhile altogether and I think I will go back to that.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Is that an approach you’ve used and you’ve found useful?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    The prime directive: if it hurts do something else.

    I endorse this. Santana is not the man on the cover of that book. That is his son. He is an old fart. He used to be a power lifter and he wrecked his shoulders power lifting enough to compete at it. Lifting free weights is excellent exercise. As part of a variety. As a steady diet your destination is injury amongst all of the people I have ever known whose exercise consists of lifting free weights at a fraction of .9.

    Now your weight lifting gym rats look at me and see this:

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/156E3/production/_103897778_npcwojak.jpg

    That's OK!

  241. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Is that an approach you've used and you've found useful?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    The prime directive: if it hurts do something else.

    I endorse this. Santana is not the man on the cover of that book. That is his son. He is an old fart. He used to be a power lifter and he wrecked his shoulders power lifting enough to compete at it. Lifting free weights is excellent exercise. As part of a variety. As a steady diet your destination is injury amongst all of the people I have ever known whose exercise consists of lifting free weights at a fraction of .9.

    Now your weight lifting gym rats look at me and see this:

    That’s OK!

    • Thanks: Barbarossa, Not Raul
  242. @Mikel
    @showmethereal


    All that bulk doesn’t extend life either
     
    I wouldn't put it that way. You are possibly right that bodybuilding is not the best strategy for life extension purposes, even if you practice it clean, insofar it involves high consumption of animal protein. At least that's what some (but not all) longevity researchers say. But there are several important caveats:

    - Metabolism varies greatly between individuals and populations. It is difficult to give dietary advice that will work equally well (or at all) for everybody.

    - If these researchers are right, plant-based proteins with low contents of leucin and isoleucin would only have rather modest effects on cell protection and lifespan. At best, a few years in exchange for giving up the pleasure of animal protein.

    - The most important caveat, that relates directly to your statement, is that muscle bulk in itself does extend healthspan and lifespan. Muscle loss is one of the inevitable consequences of aging. It starts at around 30 years of age and becomes worse with each decade. As you age, this muscle loss starts to have increasingly important functional effects. Not only you become unable to do many things that you were able to do before but this progressive lack of activity has detrimental metabolic effects. It also prevents you from you doing vigorous aerobic exercise, that is the best known way to stay healthy, and increases frailty, which reduces lifespan. A hip or other bone fracture would not be a very life-changing event in your 20s but in your 70s-80s it may lead you to early death in a couple of years. The lack of muscle at those ages means that people may never recover from an accident like that. They become semi-paralyzed or bedridden, which increases muscle loss and lack of activity even more and greatly reduces life expectancy.

    The best way to prevent all of that is to maintain as much muscle as you can in your old age. This, in turn, is easier if you achieved good muscle size in your youth, when you really are able to generate good hypertrophy. Keeping or returning to a muscle mass that was already there is much easier than trying to generate that muscle at an old age, when metabolism, strength and joint health are all playing against you.

    I don't particularly like lifting weights at the gym, I much prefer strenuous exercise in nature, but it is what it is. Btw, a very little known fact is that muscle cells are the only cells that never develop cancer. It is not known why but scientists hope to apply their knowledge to the cure of cancer when they finally unravel the secret.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Of course there are many factors (genetics – environment – diet/lifestyle)… Anecdotally I think “strenuous exercise in nature” is probably a better bet. The people I know who practice such tend to live longer and have much better quality of life up into their 70’s and 80’s (some losing function in their 90’s). I’ve never seen it among the “body building” crowd – but maybe because that’s a newer phenomenon. I wonder what the average life expectancy of a body builder is – and likewise rugby and american football players compared to other athletes….??

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @showmethereal


    I wonder what the average life expectancy of a body builder is
     
    The crucial thing here is if the bodybuilder is clean (no steroids, hormones, etc) or unclean. Many of the compounds that bodybuilders take are very damaging for long-term health but I would expect a clean bodybuilder to live longer than the average. They eat rather healthy diets, don't smoke or abuse alcohol and anaerobic exercise, while not as good as aerobic for general health, also provides benefits, one of them being the muscle mass that is so important in old age, as I discussed in my previous comment. I don't think there are too many clean bodybuilders though.

    On the other hand, exercising and dieting to maximize muscle mass is not the optimum strategy if your goal is to maximize lifespan. You would rather need to focus on aerobic exercise while trying to maintain muscle mass, which may be difficult if you overdo it, as the physiques of marathon runners show. There are different hallmarks of aging at a cellular level but an important one is the accumulation of dead and senescent cells. This can be delayed with the process of autophagy: forcing your organism to use these damaged cells for metabolism instead of exterior nutrients. Autophagy is achieved through caloric restriction (the best known method to extend lifespan in all sorts of organisms, from yeast to mammals), intermittent fasting and strong aerobic exercise. Bodybuilders that eat constant protein-rich food and only practice moderate aerobics, if at all, are giving up this important longevity tool, although the caloric restriction during the "cutting" phase should provide some of it.

    I am by no means an expert on any of this though. I'm just relaying what I believe is the latest scientific understanding. If AnonfromTN regularly works with plasmids, as he explained above, he is the one person who should be commenting on all this.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  243. @Dmitry
    @A123

    From this last thread.
    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=A123


    When the park was swarmed with non-locals, everyone who actually lived there took a financia
     
    Afula is a Jewish city in Northern Israel. Majority of the population in Northern Israel are Arab people. It's a Jewish city surrounded by Arab cities.

    Life in Arab villages in Israel have low investment from the national level and also there is a lot of mafia and high crime, low level of police investment. As the article I posted wrote, because of the problems in the Arab villages, many of the middle class Arab families are starting to immigrate to Jewish cities like Afula. Most of Arabs in Northern Israel are relatively Westernized, most of the Arab women there do not wear hijab. They just want to shop in IKEA or H&M.* They will immigrate to the Jewish cities if they can have a better quality of life like any middle class aspiring people.

    At the same time, the Jewish cities in Northern Israel, are selling property to the Jewish residents, because they are the Jewish cities, not mixed cities. This is their raison d'être to attain new Jewish residents. Mixed cities in Israel are unpopular, because they are often like living in a volcano, when there is a tension in the Israel-Palestine war, For example, in 2021, there was the interethnic violence in the mixed cities Lod, Yafo and Ramle, because of the conflict with the Temple Mount/Al Aqsa in Jerusalem. There were many killings in 2021 in those cities.

    It's expected Mayor of Afula is protesting to try to prevent Arab families move to his city, as becoming a mixed city would stop him receiving new Jewish residents. But in the same time, the middle class Arab families will still want to move there, because the Jewish cities is where the infrastructure and investment is at a developed country level in Northern Israel. The investment in Arab cities's infrastructure and police is a bit more like the third world.

    It's analogous for racial discrimination in cities like Detroit 1930s, of the white suburbs against black people. But, it's more unsolvable, because it is also responding to the Arab-Israel conflict and religious war in the Middle East, with regular killing, related also to international events.

    Israel's government has more money now so Netanyahu will try to invest more money to the Arab villages. It was his plan in the 2010s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-okays-nis-15b-upgrade-plan-for-arab-communities/

    So even the far-right politicians, know if the Arab cities had received more investment, there would be less driver to immigrate to Jewish cities in Northern Israel.


    Jaffa situation is more complicated. It has an unusually high religious mix dating back for decades.
     
    Northern Yafo/Jaffa is a gentrification is like Bedford–Stuyvesant in Brooklyn, which Spike Lee discusses often. It is an attractive real estate because its location is quite central. It also has historical building. Real estate companies can make money doing re-novation of old buildings.

    But there is no escape from racial/religious conflict if Jews immigrate to Yafo, because Yafo was an important center of the Arab-Israel conflict in Mandatory Palestine. The beginning of the Arab revolt in 1936, has beginning with the riot in Yafo in 1935.

    In the 1947 Partition Plan which is the original two-state solution, Yafo was part of the Arab state. In the 1948 Arab-Israel war, half of the Arab population in Yafo has become refugees.

    It is historically one of the most important area of violence in the Arab-Israel conflict and there is still a lot of tension there.


    There is also a small, often over looked, Christian population around the local Church of St. Peter.

     

    There has been a lot of religious infrastructure, because the port was historically the entrance for the Holy Land. When pilgrims arrive in the Holy Land in the port, they would be first there and cared by the religious institutions.

    Yafo was the door to the Holy land for pilgrims for thousands of years. But today, there is no port (except some small fishing boats). Religious pilgrims come by the airport. There is still potential for a kitsch tourist zone in Northern Yafo.

    -
    * There are the Arab shoppers in the mall in the Arab capital of Israel (Nazareth). It's not like Bedouins in Southern Israel. Arabs in Northern Israel mostly don't wear hijab and are not much different in lifestyle than average modernizing people in a second world Islamic country like Turkey.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF36tpyaU0Q

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    Life in Arab villages in Israel have low investment from the national level

    Israel runs municipal grants & investments largely based on tax and business activity to the national level (∆). Municipalities that generate limited money receive less funding. That is not “discriminatory” based on religion. It is recognition that reinvestment in cities that work generate economic growth. Most successful nations use variations of this policy.

    there is a lot of mafia and high crime, low level of police investment

    Arab villages could raise taxes on Arab residents to improve Arab law enforcement (e.g. police investment). They choose not to and opt for blame shifting. This has a strong parallel in America:

    • Certain groups have a propensity for crime.
    • Those groups primarily prey on others of their group.

    American cities that recognize these facts do acceptable jobs. Cities that are delusional — Minneapolis, Portland, Chicago, San Francisco — have crime that is out of control.

    because of the problems in the Arab villages, many of the middle class Arab families are starting to immigrate to Jewish cities like Afula.

    This has a rough parallel in “post-segregation” America. Stable black communities suddenly became less functional when their leadership class moved out. Some fully collapsed.

    Muslims voluntarily hollowing out Arab villages by leaving can only make the problems worse.

    Arab women there do not wear hijab. They just want to shop in IKEA or H&M.* They will immigrate to the Jewish cities if they can have a better quality of life like any middle class aspiring people.

    Certain stores are not present because of lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.

    Why? Could it be lower disposable income? Higher crime risk? Concerns about being burned out if there is a Minneapolis like civil disturbance?

    Businesses would open there if there was a profit motive to do so. If Arab villages improve, private investment will follow. And, the only group to that can drive that change are the Arab residents of Afula, not the national government.

    Israel’s government has more money now so Netanyahu will try to invest more money to the Arab villages. It was his plan in the 2010s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-okays-nis-15b-upgrade-plan-for-arab-communities/

    end of single-family home construction and a transition to high-rise construction, as exists throughout the country. At the same time, the plan will strengthen law enforcement in the minority sector with emphasis on illegal construction.”

    So even the far-right politicians, know if the Arab cities had received more investment, there would be less driver to immigrate to Jewish cities in Northern Israel.

    Centrist politician Netanyahu will make the attempt, which is good politics. Even if it does not work it will demonstrate his personal commitment to maintain Likud’s Centrist credentials and separation from the Right.

    Illegal construction breeds crime, as payments are “off the books”. Reducing that practice should produce some immediate gains.

    Dense pack, high-rise living is a much more problematic policy. If Arab residents do not take responsibility for Arab crime against Arabs, it could generate the “Cabrini–Green” effect.

    In the 1947 Partition Plan which is the original two-state solution, Yafo was part of the Arab state. In the 1948 Arab-Israel war, half of the Arab population in Yafo has become refugees.

    It is historically one of the most important area of violence in the Arab-Israel conflict and there is still a lot of tension there.

    Mixed cities in Israel are unpopular, because they are often like living in a volcano, when there is a tension

    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled including 3,000+ Christians. There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.
    ___

    Over optimism after WW II led to many profound mistakes:

    • The UN is almost certainly the biggest post WW II boondoggle. It is so flawed, it has created & extended wars. Alas, it is much like the EU. Almost everyone realizes that it should be replaced, but there is no consensus on what the new structure should be. For example, India should have a permanent UNSC seat, but the PRC would never allow that.

    • The Balfour Declaration of 1917 for a Jewish “national home” in Palestine followed by the 1922 Palestinian Mandate was a sound starting point. Abrogating those concepts in 1947 was a fiasco. Instead of using the obvious Jordan River Line, the absurd border guaranteed conflict. Experts warned about this at the time. Unfortunately, that sound advice was ignored.

    • France failed to create separate nations for Maronite Lebanon and Muslim Lebanon. Demographers warned this was a mistake, and they were ignored. Partitioning now is much harder than it could have been. However, multicultural Lebanon is now so failed they cannot even select a President. Is there any viable solution other than division?

    • Why is there no Kurdistan? This was an easy problem to fix in the 1940’s, but it was ignored.

    There is a pattern where obvious issues were simply skipped post WW II. The consequence is a trail of foreseeable flare ups.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (∆) Due to deals such as Oslo, different investment concepts are legally required in Muslim Occupied Judea & Samaria. These cases are not relevant to the Afula & Jaffa discussion.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @A123


    lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.
     
    I'm not an expert about the history or area, but you can see the shopping malls in Northern Israel are full of Arab shoppers buying like consumers in a developed economy.

    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.

    Healthcare will still be good there, as everyone uses the same hospitals, with free healthcare. But the schools are likely at a low level. The city planning is also low. You can doubt there is level of building preparation for earthquakes, or civilian defense from missile attacks.

    So, there is the obvious problem of the lack of public investment in the Arab areas.

    Also the crime levels were going extremely high in the recent years for Israeli Arabs areas. https://observers.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-observers/20221011-israel-s-arab-community-terrorised-by-rising-crime-and-violence.


    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.

     

    It is only North Yafo/Jaffa which has the significant Jewish immigration. You can see the demographics if you look at the election maps and match to the simplified ethnic groups.

    You can see in the election map North edge of Yafo begins voting for the liberal Jewish politics (Blue and White).

    Some Yafo Arabs are moving South and they are living in North Bat Yam. You can see the Arab joint list is receiving votes there.

    Bat Yam is Likud center, because the population there is the rightwing demographics, of more working class Mizrachi Jews and Russian-speaking immigrants
    https://i.imgur.com/O0KmEdj.jpg

    In the Northern Tel Aviv there are the politically liberal demographics. Secular Ashkenazi Jews are the leftist demographic in Israel. Liberal Ashkenazim are majority all over the wealthy Northern suburbs.

    In poor South Tel Aviv (except the gentrified areas in the West), there is a working class Mizrachi population, as well as the illegal immigrants (who do not vote). So, the poor South Tel Aviv is also the important voting center for the Likud.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

  244. @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    Would say that it is a geopolitical liability because it means that one’s national and cultural power base is significantly eroded and under attack.
     
    The enabling effect of whiteness is still there, although I don’t expect it to last more than two-three decades. Whiteness might become a liability eventually, but that will happen after geopolitical restructuring of the world is over.

    Here is something I would not believe if I hadn’t seen it myself. Across Indonesian islands there is a visible gradient of skin pigmentation, with the lightest end being Java and the darkest Papua. Lighter-skinned Indonesians believe that darker-skinned ones are inferior. Half of the items in their cosmetics section are various “whitening creams”. Even though objectively with their natural color most local girls are prettier than 99% of white Dutch and British women.

    Replies: @songbird

    Indonesia certainly is a remarkable country both for its natural diversity and geographic scope. 700 spoken languages, though independent PNG has more.

    Not sure what it would have looked like if the Dutch hadn’t been there to consolidate it. Though I suppose the Javanese probably would have still dominated the area, based on numbers.

  245. @German_reader
    Apparently the religious police in Iran will be disbanded. So the mullahs aren't completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions. Will be interesting to see if it's enough or too little, too late.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    Apparently the religious police in Iran will be disbanded. So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions. Will be interesting to see if it’s enough or too little, too late.

    It is hard to see how the Ayatollah can offer concessions and survive. The rule of Islamic Revolutionaries is grounded in religious extremism.

    Iran Abolishes Morality Police. Or Did They?

    Iran’s Attorney General Mohammad Jafar Montazeri announced on Saturday night that the hated Morality Police would be disbanded. The news was broadcast over state media outlets but was not confirmed by the Interior Ministry.

    President Ebrahim Raisi said there would be no discussions of reform until the “riots” ended. That may still be true, as Montazeri pointed out that the Morality Police were not under the judiciary’s authority and would continue “to monitor behavioral actions at the community level.”

    Iranians are skeptical.

    Arash Azizi آرش عزیزی

    Montazeri said the patrol wasn’t the business of the judiciary but of the police so “they launched it and they shut it themselves.” He quickly added that the Judiciary would still monitor “behavior in society”

    Iran’s regime media have also been quick at work, clarifying the the issue and denying that Guidance Patrol has been shut.

    The Iranian government is extremely factionalized and it’s not unusual for one faction to promote a policy or action while another faction opposed it. And with rumors that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei is seriously ill, it might even be a question of “who’s in charge”?

    Knowing that change is coming, officials are jockeying for position (and personal survival).

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2022/12/04/iran-abolishes-morality-police-or-did-they-n1650786

  246. @Beckow
    @showmethereal

    Yeah, the available pool is shrinking, both in absolute numbers and in talent-rich environments. One issue are small families. Genetically we need to go deep to have enough variety, with 1-2 kids that happens less. With multiple kids from the same parents the genetic variety is richer.

    With any animal species a boring progression of 1-2 offsprings, often after artificial pair-ups like in a Zoo, they will soon be at the edge of extinction. European societies have been like that for 1-2 generations, not enough variety is a downward spiral. There are also social negatives of not having siblings around - it may even suppress football talent.

    But my bet is still on Croatia :)...it is probably hopeless, but they have unique flair when they play well, this is their last chance.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Mostly agreed – but I don’t understand what you mean by “in talent-rich environments”…. Do you mean in Italy that youth football is not as well funded?

    And yes what you say socially about small families is true all around. East Asia is just like Europe in that regard now (South Korea and Japan have the lowest birth rates in the world). South East Asia is headed that way (Singapore is second after South Korea in birth rate). Even South America birth rates are falling. Yes children who don’t grow up with siblings has a lot of implications. Grandparents with few grand children is bad socially as well.

  247. @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    China is lacking too many things that Russia has. Including, but not limited to, being white,
     

    Russians on surface are friendly but are actually contemptuous towards Chinese
     
    You are welcome to keep posting anything that gets you remunerated. After all, you do it for a living. Most people can’t afford to be too choosy in this.

    It’s not your fault that the reality contradicts the narrative of the side that pays you. In the opinion of the Chinese who live in the Far East and earn their keep by honest work, rather than by Internet posting, Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals. But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others. That’s counterintuitive, considering that locals are not white. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes in more than one country. So, today being white is a geopolitical asset. Naturally, Russians are using every asset they have. As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    For a scientist you do like to argue with anecdotes rather than data.

    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school? I can claim that I heard from Svetlana and Yulia this and that.

    Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals.

    Russians in the land formerly of Qing China treating the Chinese as equals. Is that what you are claiming?

    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.

    Good for you.

    Bashibuzuk and I had a nice academic exchange about the cliché Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tartare. Obviously you weren’t paying attention,

    The Anglosphere gets hanged up on a sharp division between East and West Eurasians, but Eurasian nomads should have always been a mix of Europoid and Mongloid features, like Putin and Shoigu.

    Yes I agree, they have intermixed since times immemorial. I mean, already by the times of the Botaï culture, there was a mixed Western Eurasian / Eastern Eurasian population. There is a haplogroup cline going West to East in Eurasia but it is thousand years old, well before the advent of the historically recorded populations.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5638069

    As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.

    All of “us” as in what? Slav nation? White Christendom?

    Who’s Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school?
     
    He's a pure sovok boomer and Popper was antimarxist, so ofc they didn't teach it in USSR at the time;)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Who’s Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?
     
    I wonder what madhouse this idea is coming from? Why on Earth would Russia attack Japan? What would it gain?

    This myth is only promoted by the empire to “explain” why Japan is still occupied 76 years after the war (in which the empire, not Russia or anyone else, nuked Japan – the first and so far the only use of nuclear weapons against humans).

    , @Sher Singh
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The KGB also helped perpetrate the Sikh genocide by feeding false info.

  248. @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Ukraine, who in turn is probably not going to go against China on the Taiwan Question.
     
    There is a big difference between Ukraine and current regime in Kiev. This regime has no agency. Its “opinions” are dictated to it by the puppeteers. The cancellation of the sale of Motor Sich to Chinese investors on puppeteers’ command is a good illustration. After getting rid of current puppet regime, Ukraine will have good relations with China, among many other countries.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Puppeteers as in the West. The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.

    Yet you are also arguing for “white” superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the “yellow” Chinese.

    Go work on your logic skills.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Go work on your logic skills.
     
    Herr Professor's logic skills got scrambled at the fork in the road, depicted within comment #228. He should be grateful that his sole reason for living has remained intact:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/US_one_dollar_bill%2C_obverse%2C_series_2009.jpg

    , @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Yet you are also arguing for “white” superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the “yellow” Chinese.
     
    Comprehension problem? That’s a remarkably lame excuse.
    , @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.
     
    Wow! What a revelation! I always naively thought that it was Antigua and Barbuda who organized coups in neighboring countries and built hundreds of military bases surrounding Russia and China, so that the quasi-alliance must be against them. You opened my eyes!

    Replies: @Jazman

  249. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    For a scientist you do like to argue with anecdotes rather than data.

    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school? I can claim that I heard from Svetlana and Yulia this and that.


    Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals.
     
    Russians in the land formerly of Qing China treating the Chinese as equals. Is that what you are claiming?

    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.
     
    Good for you.

    Bashibuzuk and I had a nice academic exchange about the cliché Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tartare. Obviously you weren't paying attention,


    The Anglosphere gets hanged up on a sharp division between East and West Eurasians, but Eurasian nomads should have always been a mix of Europoid and Mongloid features, like Putin and Shoigu.

     


    Yes I agree, they have intermixed since times immemorial. I mean, already by the times of the Botaï culture, there was a mixed Western Eurasian / Eastern Eurasian population. There is a haplogroup cline going West to East in Eurasia but it is thousand years old, well before the advent of the historically recorded populations.

     

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5638069

    As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.
     
    All of "us" as in what? Slav nation? White Christendom?

    Who's Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school?

    He’s a pure sovok boomer and Popper was antimarxist, so ofc they didn’t teach it in USSR at the time;)

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @sudden death

    The evolution of these diagrams reminds me of Covid-- whatever happens, the answer is always more Communism (or more lockdowns)

    https://i.postimg.cc/633GvMr6/marx-1.gif

    https://i.postimg.cc/QCK96VYR/marx-2.gif

    https://i.postimg.cc/9Mnwtybd/marx-3.gif
    https://www.friesian.com/marx.htm

  250. @Yahya
    @Dmitry

    Thanks, interesting post. My friends grandparents were from Jaffa. It’s one of the most beautiful areas in the world with lots of developmental potential, so am not surprised if it will be gentrified. Hope they will do it in a tasteful manner and maintain it’s old world building style and charm.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    lots of developmental potential, so am not surprised if it will be gentrified. Hope they will do it in a tasteful manner

    Ancient and Ottoman building in the old port of Jaffa/Yafo is a tourist zone. So, the more ancient buildings don’t change which is good, but the shops are selling kitsch things to tourists which less attractive.

    [MORE]

    The main shopping street at the North of Yafo with a 19th century Ottoman tower has become a 4-lane highway and with unpleasant cars and traffic. That is how you can damage the historical atmosphere. You don’t need ethnic cleansing, just cars. They need to pedestrianize all the area, but there is probably no plan for this. So, I don’t think it is such a successful area, even aside from its tensions of the Arab-Israel conflict.

    The old working class suburb that was built in the late 19th century above Yafo (Neve Tzedek) has become gentrified and became a leisure area with cafes.

    Gentrification there, seems like a successful example.
    1. Mostly cars do not drive there (less noise/pollution).
    2. Middle class people moved there but didn’t clean it too much. They were happy to allow it to continue the appearance of the shabby 19th century streets. At least for now they are not driving SUVs in the small streets.

  251. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    For a scientist you do like to argue with anecdotes rather than data.

    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school? I can claim that I heard from Svetlana and Yulia this and that.


    Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals.
     
    Russians in the land formerly of Qing China treating the Chinese as equals. Is that what you are claiming?

    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.
     
    Good for you.

    Bashibuzuk and I had a nice academic exchange about the cliché Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tartare. Obviously you weren't paying attention,


    The Anglosphere gets hanged up on a sharp division between East and West Eurasians, but Eurasian nomads should have always been a mix of Europoid and Mongloid features, like Putin and Shoigu.

     


    Yes I agree, they have intermixed since times immemorial. I mean, already by the times of the Botaï culture, there was a mixed Western Eurasian / Eastern Eurasian population. There is a haplogroup cline going West to East in Eurasia but it is thousand years old, well before the advent of the historically recorded populations.

     

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5638069

    As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.
     
    All of "us" as in what? Slav nation? White Christendom?

    Who's Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

    Who’s Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?

    I wonder what madhouse this idea is coming from? Why on Earth would Russia attack Japan? What would it gain?

    This myth is only promoted by the empire to “explain” why Japan is still occupied 76 years after the war (in which the empire, not Russia or anyone else, nuked Japan – the first and so far the only use of nuclear weapons against humans).

    • Agree: showmethereal
  252. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    Puppeteers as in the West. The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.

    Yet you are also arguing for "white" superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the "yellow" Chinese.

    Go work on your logic skills.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    Go work on your logic skills.

    Herr Professor’s logic skills got scrambled at the fork in the road, depicted within comment #228. He should be grateful that his sole reason for living has remained intact:

  253. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    Puppeteers as in the West. The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.

    Yet you are also arguing for "white" superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the "yellow" Chinese.

    Go work on your logic skills.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    Yet you are also arguing for “white” superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the “yellow” Chinese.

    Comprehension problem? That’s a remarkably lame excuse.

  254. @A123
    @Dmitry


    Life in Arab villages in Israel have low investment from the national level
     
    Israel runs municipal grants & investments largely based on tax and business activity to the national level (∆). Municipalities that generate limited money receive less funding. That is not "discriminatory" based on religion. It is recognition that reinvestment in cities that work generate economic growth. Most successful nations use variations of this policy.

    there is a lot of mafia and high crime, low level of police investment
     
    Arab villages could raise taxes on Arab residents to improve Arab law enforcement (e.g. police investment). They choose not to and opt for blame shifting. This has a strong parallel in America:

    • Certain groups have a propensity for crime.
    • Those groups primarily prey on others of their group.

    American cities that recognize these facts do acceptable jobs. Cities that are delusional -- Minneapolis, Portland, Chicago, San Francisco -- have crime that is out of control.

    because of the problems in the Arab villages, many of the middle class Arab families are starting to immigrate to Jewish cities like Afula.
     
    This has a rough parallel in "post-segregation" America. Stable black communities suddenly became less functional when their leadership class moved out. Some fully collapsed.

    Muslims voluntarily hollowing out Arab villages by leaving can only make the problems worse.

    Arab women there do not wear hijab. They just want to shop in IKEA or H&M.* They will immigrate to the Jewish cities if they can have a better quality of life like any middle class aspiring people.
     
    Certain stores are not present because of lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.

    Why? Could it be lower disposable income? Higher crime risk? Concerns about being burned out if there is a Minneapolis like civil disturbance?

    Businesses would open there if there was a profit motive to do so. If Arab villages improve, private investment will follow. And, the only group to that can drive that change are the Arab residents of Afula, not the national government.

    Israel’s government has more money now so Netanyahu will try to invest more money to the Arab villages. It was his plan in the 2010s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-okays-nis-15b-upgrade-plan-for-arab-communities/

    end of single-family home construction and a transition to high-rise construction, as exists throughout the country. At the same time, the plan will strengthen law enforcement in the minority sector with emphasis on illegal construction.”
     
    So even the far-right politicians, know if the Arab cities had received more investment, there would be less driver to immigrate to Jewish cities in Northern Israel.

     

    Centrist politician Netanyahu will make the attempt, which is good politics. Even if it does not work it will demonstrate his personal commitment to maintain Likud's Centrist credentials and separation from the Right.

    Illegal construction breeds crime, as payments are "off the books". Reducing that practice should produce some immediate gains.

    Dense pack, high-rise living is a much more problematic policy. If Arab residents do not take responsibility for Arab crime against Arabs, it could generate the "Cabrini–Green" effect.

    In the 1947 Partition Plan which is the original two-state solution, Yafo was part of the Arab state. In the 1948 Arab-Israel war, half of the Arab population in Yafo has become refugees.

    It is historically one of the most important area of violence in the Arab-Israel conflict and there is still a lot of tension there.
     

    Mixed cities in Israel are unpopular, because they are often like living in a volcano, when there is a tension
     
    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled including 3,000+ Christians. There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.
    ___

    Over optimism after WW II led to many profound mistakes:

    • The UN is almost certainly the biggest post WW II boondoggle. It is so flawed, it has created & extended wars. Alas, it is much like the EU. Almost everyone realizes that it should be replaced, but there is no consensus on what the new structure should be. For example, India should have a permanent UNSC seat, but the PRC would never allow that.

    • The Balfour Declaration of 1917 for a Jewish "national home" in Palestine followed by the 1922 Palestinian Mandate was a sound starting point. Abrogating those concepts in 1947 was a fiasco. Instead of using the obvious Jordan River Line, the absurd border guaranteed conflict. Experts warned about this at the time. Unfortunately, that sound advice was ignored.

    • France failed to create separate nations for Maronite Lebanon and Muslim Lebanon. Demographers warned this was a mistake, and they were ignored. Partitioning now is much harder than it could have been. However, multicultural Lebanon is now so failed they cannot even select a President. Is there any viable solution other than division?

    • Why is there no Kurdistan? This was an easy problem to fix in the 1940's, but it was ignored.

    There is a pattern where obvious issues were simply skipped post WW II. The consequence is a trail of foreseeable flare ups.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (∆) Due to deals such as Oslo, different investment concepts are legally required in Muslim Occupied Judea & Samaria. These cases are not relevant to the Afula & Jaffa discussion.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.

    I’m not an expert about the history or area, but you can see the shopping malls in Northern Israel are full of Arab shoppers buying like consumers in a developed economy.

    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.

    Healthcare will still be good there, as everyone uses the same hospitals, with free healthcare. But the schools are likely at a low level. The city planning is also low. You can doubt there is level of building preparation for earthquakes, or civilian defense from missile attacks.

    So, there is the obvious problem of the lack of public investment in the Arab areas.

    Also the crime levels were going extremely high in the recent years for Israeli Arabs areas. https://observers.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-observers/20221011-israel-s-arab-community-terrorised-by-rising-crime-and-violence.

    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.

    It is only North Yafo/Jaffa which has the significant Jewish immigration. You can see the demographics if you look at the election maps and match to the simplified ethnic groups.

    You can see in the election map North edge of Yafo begins voting for the liberal Jewish politics (Blue and White).

    Some Yafo Arabs are moving South and they are living in North Bat Yam. You can see the Arab joint list is receiving votes there.

    Bat Yam is Likud center, because the population there is the rightwing demographics, of more working class Mizrachi Jews and Russian-speaking immigrants
    In the Northern Tel Aviv there are the politically liberal demographics. Secular Ashkenazi Jews are the leftist demographic in Israel. Liberal Ashkenazim are majority all over the wealthy Northern suburbs.

    In poor South Tel Aviv (except the gentrified areas in the West), there is a working class Mizrachi population, as well as the illegal immigrants (who do not vote). So, the poor South Tel Aviv is also the important voting center for the Likud.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.
     
    I visited Amman, Jordan 2 months ago, and was very impressed by its orderliness and the general quality of the city, starting with the clean and spacious airport. Generally I found the place to be a cut above Egypt’s lamentable standards, even though statistically they are roughly equal in per capita income when adjusting for purchasing power parity. I would classify Jordan as a second-world country, similar to Argentina or Mexico, I don’t think lumping it with Egypt or India does it justice.

    The most impressive aspect about Jordan was the refined quality of their buildings. I’m in awe of the elegance of the Levantine "white stone":


    https://blog.murdochs.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/0Q1A9705.jpg


    When I came back to Egypt I spoke with an architect/contractor about the possibility of adopting this building style; thinking it would be transferrable to a Middle Eastern nation of similar economic circumstances. He mentioned some technical issues with using that particular stone in an Egyptian environment, also said the large population would make its adoption prohibitive, especially as the stone is not indigenous to Egypt and must be transported from abroad. A shame really.

    Replies: @A123

    , @A123
    @Dmitry


    The city planning is also low. You can doubt there is level of building preparation for earthquakes, or civilian defense from missile attacks.

    So, there is the obvious problem of the lack of public investment in the Arab areas.
     
    Why would Muslims need missile defenses against Muslim weapons? Prudent protective planning shields potential targets.
    ___

    You are jumping to an unsupported conclusion. Accusations of "lack of public investment" do not hold up. The taxpayers in an area get the amount of investment their taxes support.

    New Greenfield construction is built to meet current specifications. Refurbishing Brownfield areas is much more complex & expensive. Older areas simply have no space set aside for some amenities. Narrow and non-grid streets create all sorts of problems moving goods and people about.

    Ironically, Orthodox Jews often have similar complaints about their communities in older cites. Even if buildings are new, the historic physical layout remains.

    PEACE 😇
  255. @German_reader
    Apparently the religious police in Iran will be disbanded. So the mullahs aren't completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions. Will be interesting to see if it's enough or too little, too late.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions.

    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position. I.e. the 1905 October manefsito in Russia reduced the Tsar’s position irrevocably until he was deposed (this being delayed due largely to Stolypin’s astute leadership). Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yahya

    True enough, the moment of biggest danger for an unpopular regime isn't when it's at its most oppressive, but when it starts liberalizing somewhat, yet still can't fulfil the rising expectations. I should have expressed myself more clearly, I meant to say it will be interesting to see whether this will stabilize the regime, or only embolden the protests until things start spinning completely out of control.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @A123
    @Yahya


    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position.
    ...
    Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

     
    A "brutal put-down" is expensive and Khamenei is short on cash. Where can he get it?

    The obvious choice would be reducing the vast sums being senselessly expended to degrade life in Gaza, Lebanon, and, Syria. However, that would be a visible sign of weakness.

    Khamenei could liquidate some overseas assets, possibly in China. However, that would be a signal to the CCP that there was a problem in Iran.
    ___

    Reality is that The Islamic Revolution is genuinely weak. The hatred of the Shah that united Communists, Islamists, and others against the golden lion no longer exists. Buying into 'forever wars' against the NeoCons was equally damaging to the Islamist side.

    Perhaps exuberant authoritarianism can salvage something that has an outward appearance of continuity. However, unstoppable forces have been unleashed within the hierarchy.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Matra
    @Yahya

    Iran seems to be denying this story. Maybe it was some kind of psyop launched by the Americans/Israelis to make Tehran look weak?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

  256. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @German_reader


    So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions.
     
    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position. I.e. the 1905 October manefsito in Russia reduced the Tsar’s position irrevocably until he was deposed (this being delayed due largely to Stolypin’s astute leadership). Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Matra

    True enough, the moment of biggest danger for an unpopular regime isn’t when it’s at its most oppressive, but when it starts liberalizing somewhat, yet still can’t fulfil the rising expectations. I should have expressed myself more clearly, I meant to say it will be interesting to see whether this will stabilize the regime, or only embolden the protests until things start spinning completely out of control.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran (about replacement, or a little lower). Romania in 1989. But that was part of a wider wave.

    Certainly seems like things have been simmering for quite a long time. At least, if the accounts I have read over the years of people flipping off the regime (portraits of Khomeini, police when they can't see) are true. Though I really don't get the sense of instability as in the late '70s. Watched a travelogue of Iran some months back, and it reminded me somewhat of Chile. In the late '60s, travelers often had to sleep in police barracks for their own protection.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yevardian

  257. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    In the data until 2005, their trend had been converging, although it is not like the Hindu and Caribbean immigrants who were already converged in the 1987-1994.
     
    I had some data that suggested that the white British fertility was around 1.4 per couple, and the Pakistani and West Indian were roughly what is shown on the first graph. I think this was data from later than 2005 but I can't remember where I found it.

    It won't be surprising if the white British fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ+, climate crisis and so on in the last decade, these may be causes or reflections of declining natality.

    I get the sense that some of the ethnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/


    Because now Bangladesh country is converging to the United Kingdom even with the vast difference of economic development. It would interesting to know if the Bangladesh immigrants have not converged.
     
    It would be interesting if there is data available. The decline in Bangladesh itself may have some environmental causes linked to conditions in the country which may or may not apply when the environment is different. I remember when I lived in an area with a Bangladeshi population there seemed to be plenty of children and they had come to form a majority in the local primary school, but that is anecdotal and was around 10 years ago.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    thnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/

    You can see the main young Catholics in United Kingdom are immigrants like Poles, Indians, Mexicans etc.

    But then Catholic Poland has a lower fertility rate than United Kingdom, so the religion is often not relevant (normal religions like Catholicism are not high-demand cults that influence behavior like Amish, Chasidism or Mormonism).

    Religion is probably matching with assimilation level for immigrants. So, it could be more indicator of the fertility culture assimilation of the immigrants from third world countries which didn’t have demographic transition. For example, East African immigrants will have much higher fertility rates than people in developed countries. Their religion can be indicator of not assimilating to the culture of the new country. But immigrants from areas which have demographic transition like Poland, would likely not have much difference, as the culture in the home country is the same as the new country (or more low fertility culture than North Western Europe).

    fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ

    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn’t match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.

    Lowest fertility countries in Northern Europe are Ukraine, Belarus and slavic population (excluding the minorities) of Russia. These are very feminist countries, but are not promoting LGBT symbols. But slavic fertility rate in postsoviet countries has been lower than the West for many decades. Scandinavian liberals have higher fertility rates than slavic postsoviet population, even with much higher economic development.

    On the other hand, there is theocracy in Iran, which doesn’t promote LGBT or feminism. But Iran’s fertility rate is going below replacement, like West, but with also lower economic level.

    Israel adds LGBT flags everywhere and described by some people as a “feminist dictatorship”, but the fertility rate for the secular population is higher than Saudi Arabia, which uses Sharia law.

    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples’ heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina. It’s always not easy to explain the differences between countries, but it’s not very simple when the world’s most theocratic countries have lower fertility than Argentina.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Dmitry


    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples’ heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina.
     
    You always get this wrong.

    Total fertility rate includes female migrant workers, who are there temporarily, and who are often kept from fraternizing with the other sex, in sex segregated barracks.

    Saudi has >4 million temporary female migrant workers. How many does Argentina have?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn’t match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.
     
    I was thinking of this mainly in relation to the white British group, because I was thinking that they are the ones most likely to have adopted latest wave feminist, LGBTQIA+ and climate crisis beliefs. Probably this is concentrated in certain segments of the white British demographic (for example, the middle class), but I wouldn't be surprised if this correlates with further declines in fertility within this group. Even if it is not the real cause of the decline.

    Within the white British group part of this may also be linked to the success of the informal anti-natalist campaign that happened in the 90s around teenage motherhood, I have heard a few other people who were at school at that time talk about it and I also remember it. I think the government sought to address it by providing more contraception and abortions to teenage girls amongst other things. The question of whether anti-natalist campaigns can have an impact on fertility rates is maybe interesting.

    I was seeing the religion data as an indication that immigrant and ethnic minority groups are less likely to have adopted the modish beliefs I mentioned above, which seem to be linked to the growing secularisation of the white British population.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  258. @Dmitry
    @A123


    lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.
     
    I'm not an expert about the history or area, but you can see the shopping malls in Northern Israel are full of Arab shoppers buying like consumers in a developed economy.

    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.

    Healthcare will still be good there, as everyone uses the same hospitals, with free healthcare. But the schools are likely at a low level. The city planning is also low. You can doubt there is level of building preparation for earthquakes, or civilian defense from missile attacks.

    So, there is the obvious problem of the lack of public investment in the Arab areas.

    Also the crime levels were going extremely high in the recent years for Israeli Arabs areas. https://observers.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-observers/20221011-israel-s-arab-community-terrorised-by-rising-crime-and-violence.


    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.

     

    It is only North Yafo/Jaffa which has the significant Jewish immigration. You can see the demographics if you look at the election maps and match to the simplified ethnic groups.

    You can see in the election map North edge of Yafo begins voting for the liberal Jewish politics (Blue and White).

    Some Yafo Arabs are moving South and they are living in North Bat Yam. You can see the Arab joint list is receiving votes there.

    Bat Yam is Likud center, because the population there is the rightwing demographics, of more working class Mizrachi Jews and Russian-speaking immigrants
    https://i.imgur.com/O0KmEdj.jpg

    In the Northern Tel Aviv there are the politically liberal demographics. Secular Ashkenazi Jews are the leftist demographic in Israel. Liberal Ashkenazim are majority all over the wealthy Northern suburbs.

    In poor South Tel Aviv (except the gentrified areas in the West), there is a working class Mizrachi population, as well as the illegal immigrants (who do not vote). So, the poor South Tel Aviv is also the important voting center for the Likud.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.

    I visited Amman, Jordan 2 months ago, and was very impressed by its orderliness and the general quality of the city, starting with the clean and spacious airport. Generally I found the place to be a cut above Egypt’s lamentable standards, even though statistically they are roughly equal in per capita income when adjusting for purchasing power parity. I would classify Jordan as a second-world country, similar to Argentina or Mexico, I don’t think lumping it with Egypt or India does it justice.

    The most impressive aspect about Jordan was the refined quality of their buildings. I’m in awe of the elegance of the Levantine “white stone”:

    When I came back to Egypt I spoke with an architect/contractor about the possibility of adopting this building style; thinking it would be transferrable to a Middle Eastern nation of similar economic circumstances. He mentioned some technical issues with using that particular stone in an Egyptian environment, also said the large population would make its adoption prohibitive, especially as the stone is not indigenous to Egypt and must be transported from abroad. A shame really.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yahya

    Egypt has been working with brick for millennia. That style could be adapted to local materials.

    It might start looking a bit Spanish as the building construction tended towards yellow.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/6a/28/8e6a28999fe947f2eee9f517b89a4132.jpg

  259. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    For a scientist you do like to argue with anecdotes rather than data.

    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school? I can claim that I heard from Svetlana and Yulia this and that.


    Russians are the only whites who treat them as equals.
     
    Russians in the land formerly of Qing China treating the Chinese as equals. Is that what you are claiming?

    But geopolitically whiteness matters, at least right now: in most places of the world locals treat whites with greater respect than others.
     
    Good for you.

    Bashibuzuk and I had a nice academic exchange about the cliché Grattez le Russe et vous trouverez le Tartare. Obviously you weren't paying attention,


    The Anglosphere gets hanged up on a sharp division between East and West Eurasians, but Eurasian nomads should have always been a mix of Europoid and Mongloid features, like Putin and Shoigu.

     


    Yes I agree, they have intermixed since times immemorial. I mean, already by the times of the Botaï culture, there was a mixed Western Eurasian / Eastern Eurasian population. There is a haplogroup cline going West to East in Eurasia but it is thousand years old, well before the advent of the historically recorded populations.

     

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-200/#comment-5638069

    As I saw one of the South Americans comment, “we know that Russia is fighting for all of us”.
     
    All of "us" as in what? Slav nation? White Christendom?

    Who's Russia fighting for in planning to attack Japan?

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN, @Sher Singh

    The KGB also helped perpetrate the Sikh genocide by feeding false info.

  260. @Dmitry
    @A123


    lower PRIVATE investment in Arab villages.
     
    I'm not an expert about the history or area, but you can see the shopping malls in Northern Israel are full of Arab shoppers buying like consumers in a developed economy.

    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.

    Healthcare will still be good there, as everyone uses the same hospitals, with free healthcare. But the schools are likely at a low level. The city planning is also low. You can doubt there is level of building preparation for earthquakes, or civilian defense from missile attacks.

    So, there is the obvious problem of the lack of public investment in the Arab areas.

    Also the crime levels were going extremely high in the recent years for Israeli Arabs areas. https://observers.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-observers/20221011-israel-s-arab-community-terrorised-by-rising-crime-and-violence.


    Jaffa indeed has the mixed city problem, with a huge side order of gentrification misery. The populations are fully intermingled There is no easy answer, it cannot even be informally compartmentalized to mono religious neighborhoods.

     

    It is only North Yafo/Jaffa which has the significant Jewish immigration. You can see the demographics if you look at the election maps and match to the simplified ethnic groups.

    You can see in the election map North edge of Yafo begins voting for the liberal Jewish politics (Blue and White).

    Some Yafo Arabs are moving South and they are living in North Bat Yam. You can see the Arab joint list is receiving votes there.

    Bat Yam is Likud center, because the population there is the rightwing demographics, of more working class Mizrachi Jews and Russian-speaking immigrants
    https://i.imgur.com/O0KmEdj.jpg

    In the Northern Tel Aviv there are the politically liberal demographics. Secular Ashkenazi Jews are the leftist demographic in Israel. Liberal Ashkenazim are majority all over the wealthy Northern suburbs.

    In poor South Tel Aviv (except the gentrified areas in the West), there is a working class Mizrachi population, as well as the illegal immigrants (who do not vote). So, the poor South Tel Aviv is also the important voting center for the Likud.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    The city planning is also low. You can doubt there is level of building preparation for earthquakes, or civilian defense from missile attacks.

    So, there is the obvious problem of the lack of public investment in the Arab areas.

    Why would Muslims need missile defenses against Muslim weapons? Prudent protective planning shields potential targets.
    ___

    You are jumping to an unsupported conclusion. Accusations of “lack of public investment” do not hold up. The taxpayers in an area get the amount of investment their taxes support.

    New Greenfield construction is built to meet current specifications. Refurbishing Brownfield areas is much more complex & expensive. Older areas simply have no space set aside for some amenities. Narrow and non-grid streets create all sorts of problems moving goods and people about.

    Ironically, Orthodox Jews often have similar complaints about their communities in older cites. Even if buildings are new, the historic physical layout remains.

    PEACE 😇

  261. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts

    thnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/

     

    You can see the main young Catholics in United Kingdom are immigrants like Poles, Indians, Mexicans etc.

    But then Catholic Poland has a lower fertility rate than United Kingdom, so the religion is often not relevant (normal religions like Catholicism are not high-demand cults that influence behavior like Amish, Chasidism or Mormonism).

    Religion is probably matching with assimilation level for immigrants. So, it could be more indicator of the fertility culture assimilation of the immigrants from third world countries which didn't have demographic transition. For example, East African immigrants will have much higher fertility rates than people in developed countries. Their religion can be indicator of not assimilating to the culture of the new country. But immigrants from areas which have demographic transition like Poland, would likely not have much difference, as the culture in the home country is the same as the new country (or more low fertility culture than North Western Europe).


    fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ
     
    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn't match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.

    Lowest fertility countries in Northern Europe are Ukraine, Belarus and slavic population (excluding the minorities) of Russia. These are very feminist countries, but are not promoting LGBT symbols. But slavic fertility rate in postsoviet countries has been lower than the West for many decades. Scandinavian liberals have higher fertility rates than slavic postsoviet population, even with much higher economic development.

    On the other hand, there is theocracy in Iran, which doesn't promote LGBT or feminism. But Iran's fertility rate is going below replacement, like West, but with also lower economic level.

    Israel adds LGBT flags everywhere and described by some people as a "feminist dictatorship", but the fertility rate for the secular population is higher than Saudi Arabia, which uses Sharia law.

    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples' heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina. It's always not easy to explain the differences between countries, but it's not very simple when the world's most theocratic countries have lower fertility than Argentina.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples’ heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina.

    You always get this wrong.

    Total fertility rate includes female migrant workers, who are there temporarily, and who are often kept from fraternizing with the other sex, in sex segregated barracks.

    Saudi has >4 million temporary female migrant workers. How many does Argentina have?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @songbird


    always get this wrong.
     
    The isn't too much relevance for the discussion, of this additional "fact" you are interesting about repeating.

    Saudi Arabia's statistics said that its citizen women (i.e. ethnic Saudis) have total fertility rate of 2,33 in 2018, while non-citizen women living in Saudi Arabia have fertility rate of 1,92.

    You can re-counted to check they are saying it accurately for 2018.
    https://i.imgur.com/RIG4oEj.jpg

    Between the two groups there is a significant 0,4 less children per woman for the foreign women, but it doesn't have significant effect for the national level and the citizen Saudi women have one of the world's fastest falls in fertility rate.

    Saudi Arabia's fertility rate falls from over 7 in 1982, to around 2,2 in 2020. It's one of the faster demographic transitions. In the same time, Argentina falls from 3,2 in 1982 to 2,2 in 2020. It's almost five times smaller fall in the same time. Sharia law didn't slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

  262. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions.
     
    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position. I.e. the 1905 October manefsito in Russia reduced the Tsar’s position irrevocably until he was deposed (this being delayed due largely to Stolypin’s astute leadership). Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Matra

    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position.

    Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

    A “brutal put-down” is expensive and Khamenei is short on cash. Where can he get it?

    The obvious choice would be reducing the vast sums being senselessly expended to degrade life in Gaza, Lebanon, and, Syria. However, that would be a visible sign of weakness.

    Khamenei could liquidate some overseas assets, possibly in China. However, that would be a signal to the CCP that there was a problem in Iran.
    ___

    Reality is that The Islamic Revolution is genuinely weak. The hatred of the Shah that united Communists, Islamists, and others against the golden lion no longer exists. Buying into ‘forever wars’ against the NeoCons was equally damaging to the Islamist side.

    Perhaps exuberant authoritarianism can salvage something that has an outward appearance of continuity. However, unstoppable forces have been unleashed within the hierarchy.

    PEACE 😇

  263. @German_reader
    @Yahya

    True enough, the moment of biggest danger for an unpopular regime isn't when it's at its most oppressive, but when it starts liberalizing somewhat, yet still can't fulfil the rising expectations. I should have expressed myself more clearly, I meant to say it will be interesting to see whether this will stabilize the regime, or only embolden the protests until things start spinning completely out of control.

    Replies: @songbird

    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran (about replacement, or a little lower). Romania in 1989. But that was part of a wider wave.

    Certainly seems like things have been simmering for quite a long time. At least, if the accounts I have read over the years of people flipping off the regime (portraits of Khomeini, police when they can’t see) are true. Though I really don’t get the sense of instability as in the late ’70s. Watched a travelogue of Iran some months back, and it reminded me somewhat of Chile. In the late ’60s, travelers often had to sleep in police barracks for their own protection.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran
     
    Maybe there could be a split within the regime, with a more strictly nationalist faction getting rid of at least the more retarded religious restrictions that anger young urbanites.
    But of course that may be just idle speculation, I don't know.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Yevardian
    @songbird

    Their TFR only suddenly fell off a cliff recently. Iran's median age is still 31 years, a decade younger than that of any serious European country.

  264. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader

    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran (about replacement, or a little lower). Romania in 1989. But that was part of a wider wave.

    Certainly seems like things have been simmering for quite a long time. At least, if the accounts I have read over the years of people flipping off the regime (portraits of Khomeini, police when they can't see) are true. Though I really don't get the sense of instability as in the late '70s. Watched a travelogue of Iran some months back, and it reminded me somewhat of Chile. In the late '60s, travelers often had to sleep in police barracks for their own protection.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yevardian

    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran

    Maybe there could be a split within the regime, with a more strictly nationalist faction getting rid of at least the more retarded religious restrictions that anger young urbanites.
    But of course that may be just idle speculation, I don’t know.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader

    Yes, if something happens, would expect it to be an internal coup.

    I believe that we are seeing a strong global trend of increasing regime stability. The historical trends are pretty well encapsulated in a place like Venezuela. And Iran has a vaguely similar oil resource base, to create patronage, if necessary in order to promote loyalty to the regime, among security forces.

    Of course, there are exceptions, like Libya, but there were pretty heavy foreign hands on the scales there, and Iran, being much bigger, I would think would be a lot harder to move.

  265. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    Puppeteers as in the West. The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.

    Yet you are also arguing for "white" superiority and solidarity at the exclusion of the "yellow" Chinese.

    Go work on your logic skills.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.

    Wow! What a revelation! I always naively thought that it was Antigua and Barbuda who organized coups in neighboring countries and built hundreds of military bases surrounding Russia and China, so that the quasi-alliance must be against them. You opened my eyes!

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Remember what you said about how Ukraine using Soviet energy system have not built anything last 30 years , look like similar situation is in Kazakhstan https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/35377

  266. @German_reader
    @songbird


    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran
     
    Maybe there could be a split within the regime, with a more strictly nationalist faction getting rid of at least the more retarded religious restrictions that anger young urbanites.
    But of course that may be just idle speculation, I don't know.

    Replies: @songbird

    Yes, if something happens, would expect it to be an internal coup.

    I believe that we are seeing a strong global trend of increasing regime stability. The historical trends are pretty well encapsulated in a place like Venezuela. And Iran has a vaguely similar oil resource base, to create patronage, if necessary in order to promote loyalty to the regime, among security forces.

    Of course, there are exceptions, like Libya, but there were pretty heavy foreign hands on the scales there, and Iran, being much bigger, I would think would be a lot harder to move.

  267. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    But the public space of the Arab villages/cities are more chaotic and like in a third world i.e. like Jordan. At the same time, there are often a lot of mansions and people with luxury automobiles living there.
     
    I visited Amman, Jordan 2 months ago, and was very impressed by its orderliness and the general quality of the city, starting with the clean and spacious airport. Generally I found the place to be a cut above Egypt’s lamentable standards, even though statistically they are roughly equal in per capita income when adjusting for purchasing power parity. I would classify Jordan as a second-world country, similar to Argentina or Mexico, I don’t think lumping it with Egypt or India does it justice.

    The most impressive aspect about Jordan was the refined quality of their buildings. I’m in awe of the elegance of the Levantine "white stone":


    https://blog.murdochs.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/0Q1A9705.jpg


    When I came back to Egypt I spoke with an architect/contractor about the possibility of adopting this building style; thinking it would be transferrable to a Middle Eastern nation of similar economic circumstances. He mentioned some technical issues with using that particular stone in an Egyptian environment, also said the large population would make its adoption prohibitive, especially as the stone is not indigenous to Egypt and must be transported from abroad. A shame really.

    Replies: @A123

    Egypt has been working with brick for millennia. That style could be adapted to local materials.

    It might start looking a bit Spanish as the building construction tended towards yellow.

    PEACE 😇

     

  268. Holodomor/Golodomor in a nutshell

    Upon seeing the Soviet archives, Robert Conquest correctly changed his earlier belief that Stalin attempted to genocide the Ukrainians.

    Nothing of the sort happened or was planned. Said without excusing Stalin’s brutality which was multiethnic.

  269. Great sarcasm on Western mass media –

    Bernd Neuner
    @Bernd__Neuner
    #Putin’s latest failure:

    Western media’s de-nazification of #Ukraine much faster and more thorough than #Russia’s 🤡

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikhail


    Great sarcasm on Western mass media
     
    Americans despise & disbelieve the Fake Stream "Euro/Western" Media.

     
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.mediapost.com/dam/cropped/2018/04/04/copy-of-copy-of-rishad-chart-3_vcwxDGP.jpg
     

    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional "news" media fabrications. Ripping on European (a.k.a. Western) godless mass media is very MAGA.

    Thank You for Your Support of TRUMP 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mikel

  270. @Mikhail
    Great sarcasm on Western mass media -

    Bernd Neuner
    @Bernd__Neuner
    #Putin's latest failure:

    Western media's de-nazification of #Ukraine much faster and more thorough than #Russia's 🤡
     


    https://twitter.com/Bernd__Neuner/status/1520419880843063296

    Replies: @A123

    Great sarcasm on Western mass media

    Americans despise & disbelieve the Fake Stream “Euro/Western” Media.

      

    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional “news” media fabrications. Ripping on European (a.k.a. Western) godless mass media is very MAGA.

    Thank You for Your Support of TRUMP 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @A123

    At the same time, many (not all) drink the CNN/BBC/MSNBC Koo laid on Russia-Ukraine. Establishment types are prone to restricting those going against their grain of deceit.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Mikel
    @A123


    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional “news” media fabrications.
     
    In a deep sense Trump is right that the 2020 election was rigged. All the main purveyors of information colluded in favor of one candidate and lied as required to make him win, as we're seeing with the Twitter Files. It was fraud in plain sight, as Tucker warned at the time. We used to criticize authoritarian regimes for this very practice and some liberals still have the nerve to continue doing it. As for fraud at the polling stations, all legal provisions were taken. Courts, including the Supreme Court, reviewed the complaints, so did the state legislatures and there were even vote recounts organized by those still unconvinced. No result-altering evidence was found by any of them. Trump's idea that the Constitution should be suspended is as moronic as his idea that he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.

    Unfortunately, Trump did manage to build a cult of diehard followers who continue to believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance. The result will obviously be that conservatives and others with sane views on topics like the border and woke lunacy will lose for the 4th straight time. Things can get so bad that I'm not sure how much those topics will matter in 2028 but you'll surely be among the ones still defending a Trump-28 ticket while whining that the '24 elections (or primaries) were rigged again.

    "Leadership is about setting the vision and then producing results, and so our actions are really what matters." DeSantis

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123, @A123

  271. @A123
    @Mikhail


    Great sarcasm on Western mass media
     
    Americans despise & disbelieve the Fake Stream "Euro/Western" Media.

     
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.mediapost.com/dam/cropped/2018/04/04/copy-of-copy-of-rishad-chart-3_vcwxDGP.jpg
     

    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional "news" media fabrications. Ripping on European (a.k.a. Western) godless mass media is very MAGA.

    Thank You for Your Support of TRUMP 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mikel

    At the same time, many (not all) drink the CNN/BBC/MSNBC Koo laid on Russia-Ukraine. Establishment types are prone to restricting those going against their grain of deceit.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikhail


    At the same time, many (not all) drink the CNN/BBC/MSNBC Koo laid on Russia-Ukraine. Establishment types are prone to restricting those going against their grain of deceit.
     
    You are correct. Disciples of European WEF dogma drink deeply of Euro-laid as directed by the ultimate Leftoid powers in Davos & Brussels.

    TRUMP 2024 is the movement that can lead Christian Populist Americans away from the Euro-laid and associated Franco-German deceit.

    PEACE 😇
  272. @Mikhail
    @A123

    At the same time, many (not all) drink the CNN/BBC/MSNBC Koo laid on Russia-Ukraine. Establishment types are prone to restricting those going against their grain of deceit.

    Replies: @A123

    At the same time, many (not all) drink the CNN/BBC/MSNBC Koo laid on Russia-Ukraine. Establishment types are prone to restricting those going against their grain of deceit.

    You are correct. Disciples of European WEF dogma drink deeply of Euro-laid as directed by the ultimate Leftoid powers in Davos & Brussels.

    TRUMP 2024 is the movement that can lead Christian Populist Americans away from the Euro-laid and associated Franco-German deceit.

    PEACE 😇

  273. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    So the mullahs aren’t completely braindead yet and seem to accept the need for at least some concessions.
     
    When autocratic regimes accept concessions, the clock starts ticking. Giving in to demands sends out a signal of their weakened position. I.e. the 1905 October manefsito in Russia reduced the Tsar’s position irrevocably until he was deposed (this being delayed due largely to Stolypin’s astute leadership). Machiavelli would likely have counseled a brutal put-down of the protestors; then perhaps implementing reforms.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123, @Matra

    Iran seems to be denying this story. Maybe it was some kind of psyop launched by the Americans/Israelis to make Tehran look weak?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Matra


    Iran seems to be denying this story. Maybe it was some kind of psyop launched by the Americans/Israelis to make Tehran look weak?
     
    I would keep an open mind. Ayatollahs might lie. Not as often as imperial propagandists, but often enough to keep this possibility open.
    , @A123
    @Matra

    Consider the more plausible alternative. Tehran/Qom is engaged in a desperate, but failing, psyop to make Tehran look competent.

    Who is older -- Khamenei or Not-The-President Biden? When is the last time Ayatollah Khamenei has spoken? Publicly where there is a recording available for simultaneous video and voice analysis?

    Keeping an open mind is prudent. Realizing that the counter revolution has strength is wise.

    PEACE 😇

  274. @Matra
    @Yahya

    Iran seems to be denying this story. Maybe it was some kind of psyop launched by the Americans/Israelis to make Tehran look weak?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    Iran seems to be denying this story. Maybe it was some kind of psyop launched by the Americans/Israelis to make Tehran look weak?

    I would keep an open mind. Ayatollahs might lie. Not as often as imperial propagandists, but often enough to keep this possibility open.

  275. @Matra
    @Yahya

    Iran seems to be denying this story. Maybe it was some kind of psyop launched by the Americans/Israelis to make Tehran look weak?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    Consider the more plausible alternative. Tehran/Qom is engaged in a desperate, but failing, psyop to make Tehran look competent.

    Who is older — Khamenei or Not-The-President Biden? When is the last time Ayatollah Khamenei has spoken? Publicly where there is a recording available for simultaneous video and voice analysis?

    Keeping an open mind is prudent. Realizing that the counter revolution has strength is wise.

    PEACE 😇

  276. I suspect that Ye also detects the 0.5% Malay (my estimate) in Musk, and that is why he calls him “half Chinese.” But I’m puzzled by his dubbing the other half “South African super-model.” (Maybe, that was just him trying to kiss up, in order to prevent himself from being banned for posting Raelian symbols?)

  277. @sudden death
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Did they not teach you Popper falsification and inductive reasoning in grad school?
     
    He's a pure sovok boomer and Popper was antimarxist, so ofc they didn't teach it in USSR at the time;)

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The evolution of these diagrams reminds me of Covid– whatever happens, the answer is always more Communism (or more lockdowns)
    https://www.friesian.com/marx.htm

  278. @songbird
    @Dmitry


    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples’ heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina.
     
    You always get this wrong.

    Total fertility rate includes female migrant workers, who are there temporarily, and who are often kept from fraternizing with the other sex, in sex segregated barracks.

    Saudi has >4 million temporary female migrant workers. How many does Argentina have?

    Replies: @Dmitry

    always get this wrong.

    The isn’t too much relevance for the discussion, of this additional “fact” you are interesting about repeating.

    Saudi Arabia’s statistics said that its citizen women (i.e. ethnic Saudis) have total fertility rate of 2,33 in 2018, while non-citizen women living in Saudi Arabia have fertility rate of 1,92.

    You can re-counted to check they are saying it accurately for 2018.

    Between the two groups there is a significant 0,4 less children per woman for the foreign women, but it doesn’t have significant effect for the national level and the citizen Saudi women have one of the world’s fastest falls in fertility rate.

    Saudi Arabia’s fertility rate falls from over 7 in 1982, to around 2,2 in 2020. It’s one of the faster demographic transitions. In the same time, Argentina falls from 3,2 in 1982 to 2,2 in 2020. It’s almost five times smaller fall in the same time. Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Dmitry

    I apologize. Seems you were right. TFR for migrant women is higher than I thought it was.

    But the real reason I thought you were wrong is just that it is hard for me to believe that a per capita difference could somehow cut through a more religious and traditional society, to lower TFR. Or do you think it is not explained by that?

    Female workforce participation in Saudi is a lot lower than in Argentina. But maybe more of them attend tertiary education?

    I suspect that Saudi TFR might be negatively impacted by obesity. They probably have a greater susceptibility to diabetes based on both the history of the past few hundred years and HBD. (With Argentinians having rich supplies of food, and thus being winnowed of diabetes genes). I don't know if it could explain the full difference though.


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    I take it that you think sex segregation has had a negative impact.

    That's an interesting theory. I do wonder what resort a son or daughter might have, if their female relatives somehow fail in their social role of matchmaking. (Maybe, this would be impacted at a certain threshold of TFR) Though, honestly, I don't know how the local system works.

    I'd be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry

    , @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    It looks like this supports the idea that some British feminists are now promoting, that much of the momentum behind the social changes linked to feminism came from technological change (in industry, in medical and reproductive technology etc.) This is contested by feminists who believe more in ideological factors.

    Imo an interesting question is will the fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology 'bottom out' at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall, to go below current SK levels. It doesn't seem implausible.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry, @Philip Owen

  279. @songbird
    @German_reader

    Having a hard time thinking of revolutions that have happened with a similar TFR as modern Iran (about replacement, or a little lower). Romania in 1989. But that was part of a wider wave.

    Certainly seems like things have been simmering for quite a long time. At least, if the accounts I have read over the years of people flipping off the regime (portraits of Khomeini, police when they can't see) are true. Though I really don't get the sense of instability as in the late '70s. Watched a travelogue of Iran some months back, and it reminded me somewhat of Chile. In the late '60s, travelers often had to sleep in police barracks for their own protection.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yevardian

    Their TFR only suddenly fell off a cliff recently. Iran’s median age is still 31 years, a decade younger than that of any serious European country.

    • Thanks: songbird
  280. @Dmitry
    @songbird


    always get this wrong.
     
    The isn't too much relevance for the discussion, of this additional "fact" you are interesting about repeating.

    Saudi Arabia's statistics said that its citizen women (i.e. ethnic Saudis) have total fertility rate of 2,33 in 2018, while non-citizen women living in Saudi Arabia have fertility rate of 1,92.

    You can re-counted to check they are saying it accurately for 2018.
    https://i.imgur.com/RIG4oEj.jpg

    Between the two groups there is a significant 0,4 less children per woman for the foreign women, but it doesn't have significant effect for the national level and the citizen Saudi women have one of the world's fastest falls in fertility rate.

    Saudi Arabia's fertility rate falls from over 7 in 1982, to around 2,2 in 2020. It's one of the faster demographic transitions. In the same time, Argentina falls from 3,2 in 1982 to 2,2 in 2020. It's almost five times smaller fall in the same time. Sharia law didn't slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    I apologize. Seems you were right. TFR for migrant women is higher than I thought it was.

    But the real reason I thought you were wrong is just that it is hard for me to believe that a per capita difference could somehow cut through a more religious and traditional society, to lower TFR. Or do you think it is not explained by that?

    [MORE]

    Female workforce participation in Saudi is a lot lower than in Argentina. But maybe more of them attend tertiary education?

    I suspect that Saudi TFR might be negatively impacted by obesity. They probably have a greater susceptibility to diabetes based on both the history of the past few hundred years and HBD. (With Argentinians having rich supplies of food, and thus being winnowed of diabetes genes). I don’t know if it could explain the full difference though.

    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.

    I take it that you think sex segregation has had a negative impact.

    That’s an interesting theory. I do wonder what resort a son or daughter might have, if their female relatives somehow fail in their social role of matchmaking. (Maybe, this would be impacted at a certain threshold of TFR) Though, honestly, I don’t know how the local system works.

    I’d be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @songbird


    I’d be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.
     
    Are you referring to the deferential between KSA and Argentina, or between natives and migrants in Saudi Arabia?

    There's not much of a difference between Argentina and Saudi Arabia in TFR today. Both roughly are around the 2.2-2.4 mark, even when accounting for KSA's migrant population.

    There are multiple factors that determine a nation's fertility; female education, urbanization, economic development, government policies, religiosity, culture and mores etc. You need to take a muli-variable approach to these things. It's probably not a good idea to make a two-nation comparison either as that limits your sample size. If we want to ascertain the relative contribution of "traditionalism" or "theocracy" in determining TFR, we'd have to run it through a multivaried regression to arrive at a co-efficient and ensure against the omitted variable bias. Standard statistics 101. I'm sure some researchers have done that before though I can't be bothered to check.

    There are probably also issues with quantifying the relative "traditionalism" of various countries. People typically recourse to Saudi Arabia and Iran because these are ostensibly obvious examples of traditional societies. But how does one go about determining if Turkey is more traditional than China, or Cambodia more than Bangladesh? Is Saudi Arabia really the best example of a traditional society either? If you travel there you'd quickly be inundated with a sea of Nike's and Starbucks'; Audi's and BMW's; universal air conditioning and gigantic state-of-the art malls. Is a modern Saudi citizen really living a more traditional lifestyle than some Congolose woman carrying a jug of water to her mud hut (based) in the middle of nowhere?

    Re, Saudi TFR: i've witnessed the decline in my own family first-hand. My grandparents had 10 kids, only 6 of whom survived through infancy; Saudi Arabia was in many ways still in medieval-mode at the time. The next generation had an average of roughly 4-5 kids, all of whom survived through infancy, including thankfully me. I'm actually the youngest of all my cousins, who probably number 24-26 (tough to keep an accurate count of these things). I have one cousin who is only 10 years younger than my father; things like this tend to happen when you have such a large family.

    Mores have changed such that the new generation of Yahya's paternal family are only having 2-3 kids on average. Perhaps we will reach an average of 4 kids as time goes on; which is above the Saudi median. This is fairly predictable as the upper crust of societies tend to have more kids than middle class people. The rule also holds true in Egypt where I estimated my classmates come from households with an average of 4 kids also.

    Unfortunately the upper class of any society are miniscule in proportion, so it wouldn't make much of a dent on population dynamics over the long run. For a eugenic effect to take place the educated portion of the (upper-)middle class need to do their part in cranking out kids, which it seems they are failing at in almost any industrialized society. One step forward two steps back. I think the inexorable march towards sub-replacement fertility is inevitable in the modern world, only question is how eugenic/dysgenic the changes will be.

    Marriage is Saudi Arabia is still very much arranged through female network. Little else you can do. In Egypt dating is more permissible.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Dmitry
    @songbird


    traditional society, to lower TFR. Or do you think it is not explained by that
     
    I think it is just another example how the politics is not so causally related for this topic. People overestimate the importance.

    In terms of the daily lifestyle, excluding politics or relation to the dictatorship (monarchy), Saudis would not be so different than Western middle class people.

    Iran would be more different as it is still more like a developing country. Iran is theocracy with fertility rate which is lower than liberal France, Ireland etc. There is maybe influence of politics, as their government, has tried to increase family planning in the previous decades to manage the population. But the government's reversal of that policy, doesn't seem have influence https://www.iranintl.com/en/20211025107012.
  281. @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    The basis for PRC-RusFed quasi-alliance being anti-West.
     
    Wow! What a revelation! I always naively thought that it was Antigua and Barbuda who organized coups in neighboring countries and built hundreds of military bases surrounding Russia and China, so that the quasi-alliance must be against them. You opened my eyes!

    Replies: @Jazman

    Remember what you said about how Ukraine using Soviet energy system have not built anything last 30 years , look like similar situation is in Kazakhstan https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/35377

  282. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts

    thnic minority communities are less impacted by these trends. For example, on religious belief there was some recent data from the last census:

    https://unherd.com/thepost/ethnic-minorities-are-keeping-britain-christian/

     

    You can see the main young Catholics in United Kingdom are immigrants like Poles, Indians, Mexicans etc.

    But then Catholic Poland has a lower fertility rate than United Kingdom, so the religion is often not relevant (normal religions like Catholicism are not high-demand cults that influence behavior like Amish, Chasidism or Mormonism).

    Religion is probably matching with assimilation level for immigrants. So, it could be more indicator of the fertility culture assimilation of the immigrants from third world countries which didn't have demographic transition. For example, East African immigrants will have much higher fertility rates than people in developed countries. Their religion can be indicator of not assimilating to the culture of the new country. But immigrants from areas which have demographic transition like Poland, would likely not have much difference, as the culture in the home country is the same as the new country (or more low fertility culture than North Western Europe).


    fertility rate continues falling following the wave of increased emphasis on feminism, LGBTQ
     
    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn't match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.

    Lowest fertility countries in Northern Europe are Ukraine, Belarus and slavic population (excluding the minorities) of Russia. These are very feminist countries, but are not promoting LGBT symbols. But slavic fertility rate in postsoviet countries has been lower than the West for many decades. Scandinavian liberals have higher fertility rates than slavic postsoviet population, even with much higher economic development.

    On the other hand, there is theocracy in Iran, which doesn't promote LGBT or feminism. But Iran's fertility rate is going below replacement, like West, but with also lower economic level.

    Israel adds LGBT flags everywhere and described by some people as a "feminist dictatorship", but the fertility rate for the secular population is higher than Saudi Arabia, which uses Sharia law.

    Saudi Arabia, with feudal political system, and judicial system where cutting of peoples' heads, now has lower fertility rate than Argentina. It's always not easy to explain the differences between countries, but it's not very simple when the world's most theocratic countries have lower fertility than Argentina.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn’t match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.

    I was thinking of this mainly in relation to the white British group, because I was thinking that they are the ones most likely to have adopted latest wave feminist, LGBTQIA+ and climate crisis beliefs. Probably this is concentrated in certain segments of the white British demographic (for example, the middle class), but I wouldn’t be surprised if this correlates with further declines in fertility within this group. Even if it is not the real cause of the decline.

    Within the white British group part of this may also be linked to the success of the informal anti-natalist campaign that happened in the 90s around teenage motherhood, I have heard a few other people who were at school at that time talk about it and I also remember it. I think the government sought to address it by providing more contraception and abortions to teenage girls amongst other things. The question of whether anti-natalist campaigns can have an impact on fertility rates is maybe interesting.

    I was seeing the religion data as an indication that immigrant and ethnic minority groups are less likely to have adopted the modish beliefs I mentioned above, which seem to be linked to the growing secularisation of the white British population.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Coconuts

    A lot of the rot is in the public sector. Not necessarily the middle class end either. There is a culture of worker entitlement.

  283. @Dmitry
    @songbird


    always get this wrong.
     
    The isn't too much relevance for the discussion, of this additional "fact" you are interesting about repeating.

    Saudi Arabia's statistics said that its citizen women (i.e. ethnic Saudis) have total fertility rate of 2,33 in 2018, while non-citizen women living in Saudi Arabia have fertility rate of 1,92.

    You can re-counted to check they are saying it accurately for 2018.
    https://i.imgur.com/RIG4oEj.jpg

    Between the two groups there is a significant 0,4 less children per woman for the foreign women, but it doesn't have significant effect for the national level and the citizen Saudi women have one of the world's fastest falls in fertility rate.

    Saudi Arabia's fertility rate falls from over 7 in 1982, to around 2,2 in 2020. It's one of the faster demographic transitions. In the same time, Argentina falls from 3,2 in 1982 to 2,2 in 2020. It's almost five times smaller fall in the same time. Sharia law didn't slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.

    It looks like this supports the idea that some British feminists are now promoting, that much of the momentum behind the social changes linked to feminism came from technological change (in industry, in medical and reproductive technology etc.) This is contested by feminists who believe more in ideological factors.

    Imo an interesting question is will the fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology ‘bottom out’ at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall, to go below current SK levels. It doesn’t seem implausible.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Coconuts


    to go below current SK levels. It doesn’t seem implausible.
     
    I think the ideal is for TFR to stay around the 2 mark. Definitely don't want to be headed to the dystopian nightmare that prevails in China, South Korea etc. where people don't have any cousins because families only have one kid.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    latest wave feminist, LGBTQIA surprised if this correlates with further declines in fertility within this group
     
    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.

    Isn't this one of the illusions promoted in the current politics, where they promote simulation of disagreement, with abstract labels, as Marxism has predicted.

    So, the "traditionalist" posts some picture of a cottage on instagram, while the "radical" has to post a different symbol.

    The level of disagreement is like the mouse in the experiment has been trained to correspond different symbols with receiving food. The conditions of the animal are the same and it will probably behavior not much differently, just it was trained for different symbols.

    With apologies always refering to Russia. But you know the more funny examples this year. Canceled Starbucks, so now Timati (a patriotic rapper) has to change the name and re-open as the patriotic "Stars coffee". You can sit in "Stars coffee" as the rejection of the American life-style.

    government sought to address it by providing more contraception and abortions to teenage girls.. anti-natalist campaigns
     
    It's natalism or anti-natalism is kind of a wide category though for describing policy. This is kind of boring responsible governments' policy would probably reduce children in orphanages, abortions, or increase the sociality mobility, reduce crime in society. It's a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.

    Anti-natalism policies in countries like China could be seen as more somewhere between. As it's a lot related the authorities want to continue reduce the revolutionary conditions and the narrow pro-authorities motive which is not necessarily always a wider pro-society motivation.

    fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology ‘bottom out’ at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall
     
    Isn't it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.

    South Korea and Singapore looked very extreme demographic transition, as the fertility rate was 6 in the 1960s, when Ukraine was already 2.

    The main explanation from the development economists or historians would write, is "because South Korea and Singapore also has an unusual fast economic development". It's surely accurate for those countries.

    Explanation for South Korea or Singapore are inconsistent with though the story in the postsoviet space often promoted low fertility is "because of the lack of economic development after the 1991".

    If the economy has been successful in the postsoviet countries, they would say economic success is the cause of the low fertility. But the economy has been unsuccessful, so the journalists say economic unsuccess is the cause of low fertility.

    https://i.imgur.com/PxOKxMG.jpg

    Countries today which are "medium fertility" like Argentina or Israel. They had far lower fertility rates than current low fertility countries like South Korea.

    They were relatively "lower fertility" countries that just don't change much, even when Argentina has economy like Ukraine or postsoviet countries in recent times. Israel has economy a bit more like South Korea (although they were more developed in the 1950s and European parts of the population had demographic transition already before).

    If you want to explain with culture instead of economy, Argentina is perhaps not that much more "traditional" than Ukraine. But probably nobody would say Argentina are more traditional than Colombia.

    https://i.imgur.com/1pzOcXo.jpg

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Philip Owen
    @Coconuts

    I hold withthe technological change camp but I would add housing finance.

    In the early 70s banks were allowed into the housing market. Whereas building societies (S&Ls) only offered 80% loans to couples who had saved at the repayment level for at least a year and based the amount on 3.5 times the husbands income, the banks offered 90% (eventually 100% sometimes more) based on both incomes. They eventually abandoned marriage as a requirement too. Women now go out to work to pay the banks their interest on home loans.

  284. @songbird
    @Dmitry

    I apologize. Seems you were right. TFR for migrant women is higher than I thought it was.

    But the real reason I thought you were wrong is just that it is hard for me to believe that a per capita difference could somehow cut through a more religious and traditional society, to lower TFR. Or do you think it is not explained by that?

    Female workforce participation in Saudi is a lot lower than in Argentina. But maybe more of them attend tertiary education?

    I suspect that Saudi TFR might be negatively impacted by obesity. They probably have a greater susceptibility to diabetes based on both the history of the past few hundred years and HBD. (With Argentinians having rich supplies of food, and thus being winnowed of diabetes genes). I don't know if it could explain the full difference though.


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    I take it that you think sex segregation has had a negative impact.

    That's an interesting theory. I do wonder what resort a son or daughter might have, if their female relatives somehow fail in their social role of matchmaking. (Maybe, this would be impacted at a certain threshold of TFR) Though, honestly, I don't know how the local system works.

    I'd be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry

    I’d be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.

    Are you referring to the deferential between KSA and Argentina, or between natives and migrants in Saudi Arabia?

    There’s not much of a difference between Argentina and Saudi Arabia in TFR today. Both roughly are around the 2.2-2.4 mark, even when accounting for KSA’s migrant population.

    There are multiple factors that determine a nation’s fertility; female education, urbanization, economic development, government policies, religiosity, culture and mores etc. You need to take a muli-variable approach to these things. It’s probably not a good idea to make a two-nation comparison either as that limits your sample size. If we want to ascertain the relative contribution of “traditionalism” or “theocracy” in determining TFR, we’d have to run it through a multivaried regression to arrive at a co-efficient and ensure against the omitted variable bias. Standard statistics 101. I’m sure some researchers have done that before though I can’t be bothered to check.

    There are probably also issues with quantifying the relative “traditionalism” of various countries. People typically recourse to Saudi Arabia and Iran because these are ostensibly obvious examples of traditional societies. But how does one go about determining if Turkey is more traditional than China, or Cambodia more than Bangladesh? Is Saudi Arabia really the best example of a traditional society either? If you travel there you’d quickly be inundated with a sea of Nike’s and Starbucks’; Audi’s and BMW’s; universal air conditioning and gigantic state-of-the art malls. Is a modern Saudi citizen really living a more traditional lifestyle than some Congolose woman carrying a jug of water to her mud hut (based) in the middle of nowhere?

    Re, Saudi TFR: i’ve witnessed the decline in my own family first-hand. My grandparents had 10 kids, only 6 of whom survived through infancy; Saudi Arabia was in many ways still in medieval-mode at the time. The next generation had an average of roughly 4-5 kids, all of whom survived through infancy, including thankfully me. I’m actually the youngest of all my cousins, who probably number 24-26 (tough to keep an accurate count of these things). I have one cousin who is only 10 years younger than my father; things like this tend to happen when you have such a large family.

    Mores have changed such that the new generation of Yahya’s paternal family are only having 2-3 kids on average. Perhaps we will reach an average of 4 kids as time goes on; which is above the Saudi median. This is fairly predictable as the upper crust of societies tend to have more kids than middle class people. The rule also holds true in Egypt where I estimated my classmates come from households with an average of 4 kids also.

    Unfortunately the upper class of any society are miniscule in proportion, so it wouldn’t make much of a dent on population dynamics over the long run. For a eugenic effect to take place the educated portion of the (upper-)middle class need to do their part in cranking out kids, which it seems they are failing at in almost any industrialized society. One step forward two steps back. I think the inexorable march towards sub-replacement fertility is inevitable in the modern world, only question is how eugenic/dysgenic the changes will be.

    Marriage is Saudi Arabia is still very much arranged through female network. Little else you can do. In Egypt dating is more permissible.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    If you travel there you’d quickly be inundated with a sea of Nike’s and Starbucks’;
     
    These countries have avoid Americanization much more than Europe in some ways. For example, they continue traditional Arab religion, gender relations or political structure. German Reader would be happy they are not like France having places called for American political events like "Rosa Parks street".

    But then in other areas, they resist Americanization a lot less than countries like France, Japan or Italy.

    So Italy and Japan, have the lowest obesity rates of developed countries. France has one of the lowest rates. Their daily diet and lifestyle avoided the American model, even when they play baseball or have American clothes. But Qatar was already "more America than Tennessee" with diet and lifestyle problems.

    There is a good YouTube report about the obesity problem of young people in Qatar.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwUu09-hNt4

    Replies: @Yahya

  285. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    It looks like this supports the idea that some British feminists are now promoting, that much of the momentum behind the social changes linked to feminism came from technological change (in industry, in medical and reproductive technology etc.) This is contested by feminists who believe more in ideological factors.

    Imo an interesting question is will the fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology 'bottom out' at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall, to go below current SK levels. It doesn't seem implausible.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry, @Philip Owen

    to go below current SK levels. It doesn’t seem implausible.

    I think the ideal is for TFR to stay around the 2 mark. Definitely don’t want to be headed to the dystopian nightmare that prevails in China, South Korea etc. where people don’t have any cousins because families only have one kid.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Yahya

    In the past I think I always took for granted that it would stay at around two. I started paying attention to demographic trends a few years ago and especially after I read Eric Kaufmann's book 'Whiteshift' (about 2018). I was reaching the point in life where most of my peers had had all the children they were likely to as well and you could see anecdotally that replacement level wasn't being reached.

    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.

    Replies: @Yahya

  286. Nixon has to be the most interesting US/Western leader of the modern period. Based and red-pilled:

    Lee Kuan Yew was likewise impressed by his strategic and pragmatic thinking; iirc even labeled him the greatest of the US presidents he had met.

    Evan Thomas’ biography of Nixon was excellent if anyone is interested, though I wish he had included more quotations from Nixon’s tapes.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    When Nixon was at Duke U law school his nickname was cement ass, from the number of hours he accumulated sitting in a chair at the library reading all the books. It was not a compliment and he was disliked by his class mates. It is impossible to judge if he was a good president because confusing the evidence on a question like that is major industry. There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy. His parents were peasants and that datum used to count for something.

    Duke U has no statue, no building, no monument of any kind the last time I checked for their most accomplished student ever. There is a presidential library in Yorba Linda California. Google image search for Nixon monument is great. Rapid City South Dakota has the best statue. (And by best I mean it's the dumbest statue I maybe have ever seen; he is sitting in a chair!)

    https://statues.vanderkrogt.net/Foto/us/ussd45-2.jpg

    Replies: @Yahya

  287. @Yahya
    Nixon has to be the most interesting US/Western leader of the modern period. Based and red-pilled:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwXOEFK6Swo&t=254s

    Lee Kuan Yew was likewise impressed by his strategic and pragmatic thinking; iirc even labeled him the greatest of the US presidents he had met.

    Evan Thomas' biography of Nixon was excellent if anyone is interested, though I wish he had included more quotations from Nixon's tapes.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    When Nixon was at Duke U law school his nickname was cement ass, from the number of hours he accumulated sitting in a chair at the library reading all the books. It was not a compliment and he was disliked by his class mates. It is impossible to judge if he was a good president because confusing the evidence on a question like that is major industry. There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy. His parents were peasants and that datum used to count for something.

    Duke U has no statue, no building, no monument of any kind the last time I checked for their most accomplished student ever. There is a presidential library in Yorba Linda California. Google image search for Nixon monument is great. Rapid City South Dakota has the best statue. (And by best I mean it’s the dumbest statue I maybe have ever seen; he is sitting in a chair!)

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy.
     
    No doubt about it. I think there's a 143IQ figure floating about in the internet. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Whatever the real figure is, he is certainly a standard deviation above most US presidents from the modern period. American voters, or "the baboonery" as Mencken would call them, have a habit of electing intellectual mediocrities like John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and and Donald Trump because they don't intimidate them. Only Barack Obama imo comes close to Nixon in raw intellectual power, though he lacks the latter's judgement and hard-headed realism.

    Carter's nuclear engineering degree would indicate he too was bright in an IQ sense, but as Admiral Rickover once taunted him for his mediocre grades and university ranking "why not the best?" (Lee Kuan Yew also had a fairly negative opinion of Carter's capabilities, he was baffled when the president would pedantically focus on minute details and ignore more important concerns during their bilateral meetings. Carter was once criticized by his aide for spending time deciding who can use the White House tennis court. Points to a lack of common sense.)

    I think Nixon's critical strength was his sense of pragmatism. Some would criticize him as lacking in principles, but in my view principle in politics merely indicates a certain close-mindedness and proneness to ideology-induced errors of judgement. Being a pragmatist means having a good sense of the possible. A pragmatist is superior to an ideologue. All of the greatest leaders from Richelieu to Lincoln to Stolypin to Tito to Bismarck tended to share this common trait with Nixon. Pragmatism is closely associated with a willingness to adopt good ideas wherever they come from; so even though Nixon was a Republican he would hire a Democrat like Daniel P. Moynihan who was supremely well-read and intelligent and could be useful in advising him.

    Conversely his greatest weakness was a lack of personal integrity, which should be separated from a lack of political principle. I don't think Nixon was an evil character nor an irredeemable crook or bigot. From his tape conversations he seemed to hold universalist sentiments, for example in the video I linked to above he was discussing how knowledge of IQ could be used to improve social policy and governance; even stated that blacks shouldn't be discouraged as they have other qualities to be proud. OTOH, he was also admirably realistic about the limitations of social policy in addressing African-American issues.

    But definitely his dishonesty ended up being the sword that felled him in during the Watergate debacle. It's not much known, but Nixon didn't actually order the burglary itself; he merely covered and lied about it after he found out. Still, these sort of dirty tactics were used by both political parties at the time; Nixon merely had the misfortune of being caught. Foreign leaders at the time were shocked that such small potatoes could cause a US President to resign; though imo one positive American quality is/was this scrupulous punishing of even minor infractions from their politicians (though this seems to have changed with Trump).

    What I admired most about Nixon was his good judgement in making cabinet selections. Choosing subordinates is one of the key functions of a manager/leader; a leader falls or succeeds on the choices he and his underlings make; and Nixon imo made some excellent choices in Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, John Connally, H.W. Bush, George Romney and Dan P. Moynihan. Not so much perhaps the advisors who let him down on Watergate. But say what you will about them, these were not lightweights like the mediocrities that filled Trump's or Obama's cabinets.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Barbarossa

  288. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    When Nixon was at Duke U law school his nickname was cement ass, from the number of hours he accumulated sitting in a chair at the library reading all the books. It was not a compliment and he was disliked by his class mates. It is impossible to judge if he was a good president because confusing the evidence on a question like that is major industry. There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy. His parents were peasants and that datum used to count for something.

    Duke U has no statue, no building, no monument of any kind the last time I checked for their most accomplished student ever. There is a presidential library in Yorba Linda California. Google image search for Nixon monument is great. Rapid City South Dakota has the best statue. (And by best I mean it's the dumbest statue I maybe have ever seen; he is sitting in a chair!)

    https://statues.vanderkrogt.net/Foto/us/ussd45-2.jpg

    Replies: @Yahya

    There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy.

    No doubt about it. I think there’s a 143IQ figure floating about in the internet. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it were true. Whatever the real figure is, he is certainly a standard deviation above most US presidents from the modern period. American voters, or “the baboonery” as Mencken would call them, have a habit of electing intellectual mediocrities like John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and and Donald Trump because they don’t intimidate them. Only Barack Obama imo comes close to Nixon in raw intellectual power, though he lacks the latter’s judgement and hard-headed realism.

    Carter’s nuclear engineering degree would indicate he too was bright in an IQ sense, but as Admiral Rickover once taunted him for his mediocre grades and university ranking “why not the best?” (Lee Kuan Yew also had a fairly negative opinion of Carter’s capabilities, he was baffled when the president would pedantically focus on minute details and ignore more important concerns during their bilateral meetings. Carter was once criticized by his aide for spending time deciding who can use the White House tennis court. Points to a lack of common sense.)

    I think Nixon’s critical strength was his sense of pragmatism. Some would criticize him as lacking in principles, but in my view principle in politics merely indicates a certain close-mindedness and proneness to ideology-induced errors of judgement. Being a pragmatist means having a good sense of the possible. A pragmatist is superior to an ideologue. All of the greatest leaders from Richelieu to Lincoln to Stolypin to Tito to Bismarck tended to share this common trait with Nixon. Pragmatism is closely associated with a willingness to adopt good ideas wherever they come from; so even though Nixon was a Republican he would hire a Democrat like Daniel P. Moynihan who was supremely well-read and intelligent and could be useful in advising him.

    Conversely his greatest weakness was a lack of personal integrity, which should be separated from a lack of political principle. I don’t think Nixon was an evil character nor an irredeemable crook or bigot. From his tape conversations he seemed to hold universalist sentiments, for example in the video I linked to above he was discussing how knowledge of IQ could be used to improve social policy and governance; even stated that blacks shouldn’t be discouraged as they have other qualities to be proud. OTOH, he was also admirably realistic about the limitations of social policy in addressing African-American issues.

    But definitely his dishonesty ended up being the sword that felled him in during the Watergate debacle. It’s not much known, but Nixon didn’t actually order the burglary itself; he merely covered and lied about it after he found out. Still, these sort of dirty tactics were used by both political parties at the time; Nixon merely had the misfortune of being caught. Foreign leaders at the time were shocked that such small potatoes could cause a US President to resign; though imo one positive American quality is/was this scrupulous punishing of even minor infractions from their politicians (though this seems to have changed with Trump).

    What I admired most about Nixon was his good judgement in making cabinet selections. Choosing subordinates is one of the key functions of a manager/leader; a leader falls or succeeds on the choices he and his underlings make; and Nixon imo made some excellent choices in Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, John Connally, H.W. Bush, George Romney and Dan P. Moynihan. Not so much perhaps the advisors who let him down on Watergate. But say what you will about them, these were not lightweights like the mediocrities that filled Trump’s or Obama’s cabinets.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    I fully agree on Nixon. The poor guy really has been unfairly maligned considering his abilities.

    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn't really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but "likability" is now king. Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his "inverse likability" was a primary draw for his base.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    , @sudden death
    @Yahya

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn't like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973. It pissed Arab coalition, with the forefronting Saudis, so much that they threw a giant hissy fit and began then unprecedented oil embargo because of this, but in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis and Arabs resumed supplies afer some time.

    Today we are having repeat with another oil/gas extractor RF, which is throwing hissy fit because West is not letting them to crush unwanted democratic neighbour state and so far there is quite fat chance the outcomes will be similar too.


    On October 19, 1973, immediately following President Nixon’s request for Congress to make available $2.2 billion in emergency aid to Israel for the conflict known as the Yom Kippur War, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) instituted an oil embargo on the United States (Reich 1995). The embargo ceased U.S. oil imports from participating OAPEC nations, and began a series of production cuts that altered the world price of oil. These cuts nearly quadrupled the price of oil from $2.90 a barrel before the embargo to $11.65 a barrel in January 1974. In March 1974, amid disagreements within OAPEC on how long to continue the punishment, the embargo was officially lifted. The higher oil prices, on the other hand, remained (Merrill 2007).

    As Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, explained in 1974, the “manipulation of oil prices and supplies by the oil-exporting countries came at a most inopportune time for the United States. In the middle of 1973, wholesale prices of industrial commodities were already rising at an annual rate of more than 10 per cent; our industrial plant was operating at virtually full capacity; and many major industrial materials were in extremely short supply” (Burns 1974). In addition to these cost pressures, the U.S. oil industry had a lack of excess production capacity, which meant it was difficult for the industry to bring more oil to market if needed (Alhajji 2005). Thus, when OAPEC cut oil production, prices had to rise because the American oil industry could not respond by increasing supply. Additionally, non-Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil sources were declining as a percentage of the world oil industry, and OPEC was therefore gaining a larger percentage of the world oil market. These market dynamics, matched with the effect of OPEC nations’ greater participation rights in the industry, allowed OPEC to wield a much larger influence over the price setting mechanism in the oil market since their formation in 1960.
     

    https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/oil-shock-of-1973-74

    Replies: @Yahya, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Mikel

    , @LondonBob
    @Yahya

    Obama was/is a moron.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @AnonfromTN

    , @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    From last thread...Thanks again for the music recommendations. If the feeling strikes you to post more, they will of course be appreciated. With piano you are probably far ahead of me in musical sophistication. I only play drums, mostly drum set with some hand drums too. I have no musical theory but I know what I like and have pretty wide ranging tastes.

    As far as syncretic Western/ ME tinged music goes I've always thought that Alan Hovhaness struck a pretty fair balance, as I've mentioned before here, I've enjoyed his body of work. Hovhaness was Armenian, which along with the Azeris you specifically mentioned. Why do you think it is that these two groups pull it off when people like the Turks tend to fail? Is it something to do with the musical tradition?

    As far as being Melkite goes it's a bit involved, but I was raised Roman Catholic and when I was about 15 or so my Dad decided to take my brother and I to a variety of Orthodox/ Eastern Rite churches so that we wouldn't be ignorant of them like most RCs. I actually like this Melkite Church because of how genuine and friendly the people are which was quite a change from the "worship and dash" Roman churches that I was used to. We started to go there primarily until I left the house.

    I was involved with a very small Celtic Christian group down where I live, which is rather a fraught term with a lot of potential New Age baggage, but this actually had legitimacy. It was great in a lot of ways and still represents my way thinking. The man who headed it was probably one of the best men I have ever met but when he died the group struggled to find it's way. We were left a bit on our own, which wouldn't have been that big a deal if it had only been myself, but having kids to think of we felt a need for a more communal aspect to our faith.

    The Eastern theology is actually quite compatible with the Celtic compared to Roman theology and it is quite possible that Coptic monks played a role in the spiritual formation of the Celtic Church.

    https://britishorthodox.org/miscellaneous/on-the-trail-of-seven-coptic-monks-in-ireland/

    Personally, I have a fair suspicion of organized religion in general and while I have a certain respect for the Roman Church, have issues with it. I have too many aesthetic and theological quibbles with most Evangelical Christians to make that a viable option and so the Melkite Church of my younger days was an acceptable choice, especially since my parents are still involved.

    As an example on Evangelicals I was at a local gathering and the conversation turned to this book, which has some exhaustingly complicated "scientific" explanations of Noah's flood et. al

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3963705-in-the-beginning?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=gK9U1DNdY7&rank=4

    with the conversation also going here...

    https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/ebooklet/the-throne-of-britain/appendix-13-the-nobility-also-jewish

    The discussion made my head hurt. A nice critique of the first book is here and makes an amusing read.

    http://paleo.cc/ce/wbrown.htm

    Suffice it to say that I can't deal with that sort of thing with great frequency!

    Replies: @Yahya

  289. @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy.
     
    No doubt about it. I think there's a 143IQ figure floating about in the internet. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Whatever the real figure is, he is certainly a standard deviation above most US presidents from the modern period. American voters, or "the baboonery" as Mencken would call them, have a habit of electing intellectual mediocrities like John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and and Donald Trump because they don't intimidate them. Only Barack Obama imo comes close to Nixon in raw intellectual power, though he lacks the latter's judgement and hard-headed realism.

    Carter's nuclear engineering degree would indicate he too was bright in an IQ sense, but as Admiral Rickover once taunted him for his mediocre grades and university ranking "why not the best?" (Lee Kuan Yew also had a fairly negative opinion of Carter's capabilities, he was baffled when the president would pedantically focus on minute details and ignore more important concerns during their bilateral meetings. Carter was once criticized by his aide for spending time deciding who can use the White House tennis court. Points to a lack of common sense.)

    I think Nixon's critical strength was his sense of pragmatism. Some would criticize him as lacking in principles, but in my view principle in politics merely indicates a certain close-mindedness and proneness to ideology-induced errors of judgement. Being a pragmatist means having a good sense of the possible. A pragmatist is superior to an ideologue. All of the greatest leaders from Richelieu to Lincoln to Stolypin to Tito to Bismarck tended to share this common trait with Nixon. Pragmatism is closely associated with a willingness to adopt good ideas wherever they come from; so even though Nixon was a Republican he would hire a Democrat like Daniel P. Moynihan who was supremely well-read and intelligent and could be useful in advising him.

    Conversely his greatest weakness was a lack of personal integrity, which should be separated from a lack of political principle. I don't think Nixon was an evil character nor an irredeemable crook or bigot. From his tape conversations he seemed to hold universalist sentiments, for example in the video I linked to above he was discussing how knowledge of IQ could be used to improve social policy and governance; even stated that blacks shouldn't be discouraged as they have other qualities to be proud. OTOH, he was also admirably realistic about the limitations of social policy in addressing African-American issues.

    But definitely his dishonesty ended up being the sword that felled him in during the Watergate debacle. It's not much known, but Nixon didn't actually order the burglary itself; he merely covered and lied about it after he found out. Still, these sort of dirty tactics were used by both political parties at the time; Nixon merely had the misfortune of being caught. Foreign leaders at the time were shocked that such small potatoes could cause a US President to resign; though imo one positive American quality is/was this scrupulous punishing of even minor infractions from their politicians (though this seems to have changed with Trump).

    What I admired most about Nixon was his good judgement in making cabinet selections. Choosing subordinates is one of the key functions of a manager/leader; a leader falls or succeeds on the choices he and his underlings make; and Nixon imo made some excellent choices in Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, John Connally, H.W. Bush, George Romney and Dan P. Moynihan. Not so much perhaps the advisors who let him down on Watergate. But say what you will about them, these were not lightweights like the mediocrities that filled Trump's or Obama's cabinets.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Barbarossa

    I fully agree on Nixon. The poor guy really has been unfairly maligned considering his abilities.

    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king. Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his “inverse likability” was a primary draw for his base.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Barbarossa


    I fully agree on Nixon.
     
    Nixon was arguably the most efficient US president in living memory. He was remarkably sane and pragmatic. His thaw with China was the greatest US geopolitical achievement in the last 50 years. Unfortunately for the US, this was lost due to idiotic attempts by recent morons to fight Russia and China at the same time.

    The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.
     
    Absolutely. Ruling a country, especially a country like the US, is a rare skill that has nothing to do with likeability or whether you’d enjoy a beer in the company of that person. E.g., you wouldn’t trust a likeable guy with whom you’d be happy to have a beer to do heart or brain surgery on you, you’d want a skilled surgeon.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @LondonBob

    , @A123
    @Barbarossa


    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.
     
    Charisma is a pretty useful trait for a President dealing with separation of powers. One has to convince swing VIP's, not under direct authority, to do things they might not wish to. Bludgeoning enemies who will never do the right thing is also useful. Who wants to be on the receiving end?

    Nixon was the last radio president. There is too much weight on telegenic appearance & screen craft, which is different from likability. However, there is no real way back from these characteristics.

    Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his “inverse likability” was a primary draw for his base.
     
    Trump is very likeable. Especially for workers & Christians who have been disadvantaged by the Uniparty system, for decades.

    I would love to have a beer with him. I would suggest he wear a yellow vest to a meeting with Macron. Trump could present Macron a gift. A specific style of Brown Shirt to, "Wear while serving German Elites instead of French Workers." Trump would love that suggestion.

    What does inverse likability mean? Strength? Opposing Leftoids? Helping U.S. Citizens? There nothing inverse about these likeable characteristics. Being hated by Merkel is a plus.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  290. @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy.
     
    No doubt about it. I think there's a 143IQ figure floating about in the internet. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Whatever the real figure is, he is certainly a standard deviation above most US presidents from the modern period. American voters, or "the baboonery" as Mencken would call them, have a habit of electing intellectual mediocrities like John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and and Donald Trump because they don't intimidate them. Only Barack Obama imo comes close to Nixon in raw intellectual power, though he lacks the latter's judgement and hard-headed realism.

    Carter's nuclear engineering degree would indicate he too was bright in an IQ sense, but as Admiral Rickover once taunted him for his mediocre grades and university ranking "why not the best?" (Lee Kuan Yew also had a fairly negative opinion of Carter's capabilities, he was baffled when the president would pedantically focus on minute details and ignore more important concerns during their bilateral meetings. Carter was once criticized by his aide for spending time deciding who can use the White House tennis court. Points to a lack of common sense.)

    I think Nixon's critical strength was his sense of pragmatism. Some would criticize him as lacking in principles, but in my view principle in politics merely indicates a certain close-mindedness and proneness to ideology-induced errors of judgement. Being a pragmatist means having a good sense of the possible. A pragmatist is superior to an ideologue. All of the greatest leaders from Richelieu to Lincoln to Stolypin to Tito to Bismarck tended to share this common trait with Nixon. Pragmatism is closely associated with a willingness to adopt good ideas wherever they come from; so even though Nixon was a Republican he would hire a Democrat like Daniel P. Moynihan who was supremely well-read and intelligent and could be useful in advising him.

    Conversely his greatest weakness was a lack of personal integrity, which should be separated from a lack of political principle. I don't think Nixon was an evil character nor an irredeemable crook or bigot. From his tape conversations he seemed to hold universalist sentiments, for example in the video I linked to above he was discussing how knowledge of IQ could be used to improve social policy and governance; even stated that blacks shouldn't be discouraged as they have other qualities to be proud. OTOH, he was also admirably realistic about the limitations of social policy in addressing African-American issues.

    But definitely his dishonesty ended up being the sword that felled him in during the Watergate debacle. It's not much known, but Nixon didn't actually order the burglary itself; he merely covered and lied about it after he found out. Still, these sort of dirty tactics were used by both political parties at the time; Nixon merely had the misfortune of being caught. Foreign leaders at the time were shocked that such small potatoes could cause a US President to resign; though imo one positive American quality is/was this scrupulous punishing of even minor infractions from their politicians (though this seems to have changed with Trump).

    What I admired most about Nixon was his good judgement in making cabinet selections. Choosing subordinates is one of the key functions of a manager/leader; a leader falls or succeeds on the choices he and his underlings make; and Nixon imo made some excellent choices in Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, John Connally, H.W. Bush, George Romney and Dan P. Moynihan. Not so much perhaps the advisors who let him down on Watergate. But say what you will about them, these were not lightweights like the mediocrities that filled Trump's or Obama's cabinets.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Barbarossa

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn’t like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973. It pissed Arab coalition, with the forefronting Saudis, so much that they threw a giant hissy fit and began then unprecedented oil embargo because of this, but in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis and Arabs resumed supplies afer some time.

    Today we are having repeat with another oil/gas extractor RF, which is throwing hissy fit because West is not letting them to crush unwanted democratic neighbour state and so far there is quite fat chance the outcomes will be similar too.

    On October 19, 1973, immediately following President Nixon’s request for Congress to make available $2.2 billion in emergency aid to Israel for the conflict known as the Yom Kippur War, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) instituted an oil embargo on the United States (Reich 1995). The embargo ceased U.S. oil imports from participating OAPEC nations, and began a series of production cuts that altered the world price of oil. These cuts nearly quadrupled the price of oil from $2.90 a barrel before the embargo to $11.65 a barrel in January 1974. In March 1974, amid disagreements within OAPEC on how long to continue the punishment, the embargo was officially lifted. The higher oil prices, on the other hand, remained (Merrill 2007).

    As Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, explained in 1974, the “manipulation of oil prices and supplies by the oil-exporting countries came at a most inopportune time for the United States. In the middle of 1973, wholesale prices of industrial commodities were already rising at an annual rate of more than 10 per cent; our industrial plant was operating at virtually full capacity; and many major industrial materials were in extremely short supply” (Burns 1974). In addition to these cost pressures, the U.S. oil industry had a lack of excess production capacity, which meant it was difficult for the industry to bring more oil to market if needed (Alhajji 2005). Thus, when OAPEC cut oil production, prices had to rise because the American oil industry could not respond by increasing supply. Additionally, non-Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil sources were declining as a percentage of the world oil industry, and OPEC was therefore gaining a larger percentage of the world oil market. These market dynamics, matched with the effect of OPEC nations’ greater participation rights in the industry, allowed OPEC to wield a much larger influence over the price setting mechanism in the oil market since their formation in 1960.

    https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/oil-shock-of-1973-74

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @sudden death


    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn’t like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973.
     
    Well I'm on the record as saying i'm glad Israel won in their conflict with Arab states. Just because I don't like Israel and criticize their oppression of Palestinians doesn't mean I want Israelis to be genocided, which could very well have happened had Arabs won (I don't know, but rather not have taken the chance).

    I'd like to think my "praise" of Nixon was nuanced and balanced with criticism. Forgot to mention his meddling in Vietnamese peace talks during the transition was dishonorable and ties back to my comment about his lack of integrity being his key weakness.


    o much that they threw a giant hissy fit
     
    I don't appreciate your use of "hissy fit" to malign Saudi Arabia's quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves. If we wanted to play mudslinging games, I could use the same words German_Reader employs to describe Baltic states "concerns" with Russia's actions during the present conflict. But I won't.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yahya, @Yevardian

    , @sudden death
    @sudden death

    btw, in inflation adjusted terms 2,2 billion at the end of 1973 would be equal roughly about 14-15 billion dollars today, while at the time full blown expensive Vietnam war was not finished yet, so then it was becoming almost two front war military supply situation for USA then.

    , @LondonBob
    @sudden death

    Nixon's policies were disastrous, regardless of the merits of his own private musings which often contradicted them.

    Which democratic neighbour would this be, because it certainly isn't the brutal Kiev regime being run out of the US State Department where the opposition parties are banned, the free press is shut down, males are forbidden from leaving the country, where soldiers can be shot by their commanders for disobeying orders, has been shelling residential areas of the Donbass for eight plus years, that tortures POWs and where public funds are freely looted and sent abroad?

    , @Mikel
    @sudden death


    in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis
     
    I'm not sure that big parts of the West have still recovered from the stagflation that followed the oil embargo. The post-WWII era of full employment came to an end. Inflation was finally reined in (until recently) and the Anglosphere also recovered from the bane of unemployment in the late 80s-90s but parts of Continental Europe, especially in the South, have never seen full employment again.
  291. @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    I fully agree on Nixon. The poor guy really has been unfairly maligned considering his abilities.

    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn't really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but "likability" is now king. Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his "inverse likability" was a primary draw for his base.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    I fully agree on Nixon.

    Nixon was arguably the most efficient US president in living memory. He was remarkably sane and pragmatic. His thaw with China was the greatest US geopolitical achievement in the last 50 years. Unfortunately for the US, this was lost due to idiotic attempts by recent morons to fight Russia and China at the same time.

    The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.

    Absolutely. Ruling a country, especially a country like the US, is a rare skill that has nothing to do with likeability or whether you’d enjoy a beer in the company of that person. E.g., you wouldn’t trust a likeable guy with whom you’d be happy to have a beer to do heart or brain surgery on you, you’d want a skilled surgeon.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm glad that you consider Nixon to have been "efficient, remarkably sane and pragmatic", for so do I. For you and other admirers of Nixon, Russian policymakers should have heeded his calls for caution in regard to Ukraine:

    In his final op-ed, he wrote with characteristic prescience that a "new despotism" would fill the vacuum and Russia would be back to its old expansionist tricks, particularly with regard to Ukraine.


    "The independence of Ukraine is indispensable," he wrote. "A Russian-Ukrainian confrontation would make Bosnia look like a Sunday-school picnic. Moscow should be made to understand that any attempt to destabilize Ukraine—to say nothing of outright aggression—would have devastating consequences for the Russian-American relationship. Ukrainian stability is in the strategic interest of the United States. To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S."
     
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-nixon-s-prediction-about-putin-and-ukraine-matters-opinion/ar-AAUSCVM

    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine. Nixon made it clear what US's priorities should be in these matters.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @German_reader

    , @LondonBob
    @AnonfromTN

    Nixon extended affirmative action and closed the gold window, a country's strength is its people and its economy, geopolitical games matter not.

  292. German_reader says:

    Another horror crime committed by “refugee” in Germany: Two 13- and 14-year old girls on their way to school in small town in Baden-Württemberg (5000 inhabitants), man comes out of refugee centre, suddenly punches and stabs them. 14-year old has died, the 13-year old is gravely wounded.
    Suspect is a 27-year old Eritrean (supposedly, who knows). Seems completely senseless, I guess they’ll explain it again with mental illness, trauma etc. Police has already warned against stoking xenophobia, politicians are crying their usual crocodile tears. Like always, nothing will change.

  293. @sudden death
    @Yahya

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn't like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973. It pissed Arab coalition, with the forefronting Saudis, so much that they threw a giant hissy fit and began then unprecedented oil embargo because of this, but in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis and Arabs resumed supplies afer some time.

    Today we are having repeat with another oil/gas extractor RF, which is throwing hissy fit because West is not letting them to crush unwanted democratic neighbour state and so far there is quite fat chance the outcomes will be similar too.


    On October 19, 1973, immediately following President Nixon’s request for Congress to make available $2.2 billion in emergency aid to Israel for the conflict known as the Yom Kippur War, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) instituted an oil embargo on the United States (Reich 1995). The embargo ceased U.S. oil imports from participating OAPEC nations, and began a series of production cuts that altered the world price of oil. These cuts nearly quadrupled the price of oil from $2.90 a barrel before the embargo to $11.65 a barrel in January 1974. In March 1974, amid disagreements within OAPEC on how long to continue the punishment, the embargo was officially lifted. The higher oil prices, on the other hand, remained (Merrill 2007).

    As Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, explained in 1974, the “manipulation of oil prices and supplies by the oil-exporting countries came at a most inopportune time for the United States. In the middle of 1973, wholesale prices of industrial commodities were already rising at an annual rate of more than 10 per cent; our industrial plant was operating at virtually full capacity; and many major industrial materials were in extremely short supply” (Burns 1974). In addition to these cost pressures, the U.S. oil industry had a lack of excess production capacity, which meant it was difficult for the industry to bring more oil to market if needed (Alhajji 2005). Thus, when OAPEC cut oil production, prices had to rise because the American oil industry could not respond by increasing supply. Additionally, non-Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil sources were declining as a percentage of the world oil industry, and OPEC was therefore gaining a larger percentage of the world oil market. These market dynamics, matched with the effect of OPEC nations’ greater participation rights in the industry, allowed OPEC to wield a much larger influence over the price setting mechanism in the oil market since their formation in 1960.
     

    https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/oil-shock-of-1973-74

    Replies: @Yahya, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Mikel

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn’t like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973.

    Well I’m on the record as saying i’m glad Israel won in their conflict with Arab states. Just because I don’t like Israel and criticize their oppression of Palestinians doesn’t mean I want Israelis to be genocided, which could very well have happened had Arabs won (I don’t know, but rather not have taken the chance).

    I’d like to think my “praise” of Nixon was nuanced and balanced with criticism. Forgot to mention his meddling in Vietnamese peace talks during the transition was dishonorable and ties back to my comment about his lack of integrity being his key weakness.

    o much that they threw a giant hissy fit

    I don’t appreciate your use of “hissy fit” to malign Saudi Arabia’s quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves. If we wanted to play mudslinging games, I could use the same words German_Reader employs to describe Baltic states “concerns” with Russia’s actions during the present conflict. But I won’t.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Yahya


    noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves
     
    Depends on how you define "cost", cause in the end they still got absolutely lavish and permanent monetary windfall from subsequent oil price raise though;)
    , @Yahya
    @Yahya

    Oh and I forgot to add this taped recording of Nixon speaking about Jews; a bit of comic relief:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4KCX_NW3To&ab_channel=CBSNews

    Based and red-pilled. Based and red-pilled...

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Yevardian
    @Yahya


    I don’t appreciate your use of “hissy fit” to malign Saudi Arabia’s quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves.
     
    Such as funding Salafists across the region, exporting its disgruntled youth as terrorists, hacking up journalists or starving Yemen? Sorry, but could you tell me how the House of Saud ever acted in a 'noble' way, because I'm completely missing it. Saudi involvement in the 20th Century's Arab-Israeli conflict was negligible and symbolic when they weren't actively providing the Israelis with intelligence. The only Arab states that consistently opposed Israeli expansionism were Syria and Iraq, their fate has since been instructive to the others.

    Bizzarely, only the Iranian government has supported the Palestinians in any meaningful manner over the past few decades, despite its own population neither liking Arabs in general or Palestinians in particular much at all.

    Replies: @Yahya

  294. @sudden death
    @Yahya

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn't like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973. It pissed Arab coalition, with the forefronting Saudis, so much that they threw a giant hissy fit and began then unprecedented oil embargo because of this, but in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis and Arabs resumed supplies afer some time.

    Today we are having repeat with another oil/gas extractor RF, which is throwing hissy fit because West is not letting them to crush unwanted democratic neighbour state and so far there is quite fat chance the outcomes will be similar too.


    On October 19, 1973, immediately following President Nixon’s request for Congress to make available $2.2 billion in emergency aid to Israel for the conflict known as the Yom Kippur War, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) instituted an oil embargo on the United States (Reich 1995). The embargo ceased U.S. oil imports from participating OAPEC nations, and began a series of production cuts that altered the world price of oil. These cuts nearly quadrupled the price of oil from $2.90 a barrel before the embargo to $11.65 a barrel in January 1974. In March 1974, amid disagreements within OAPEC on how long to continue the punishment, the embargo was officially lifted. The higher oil prices, on the other hand, remained (Merrill 2007).

    As Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, explained in 1974, the “manipulation of oil prices and supplies by the oil-exporting countries came at a most inopportune time for the United States. In the middle of 1973, wholesale prices of industrial commodities were already rising at an annual rate of more than 10 per cent; our industrial plant was operating at virtually full capacity; and many major industrial materials were in extremely short supply” (Burns 1974). In addition to these cost pressures, the U.S. oil industry had a lack of excess production capacity, which meant it was difficult for the industry to bring more oil to market if needed (Alhajji 2005). Thus, when OAPEC cut oil production, prices had to rise because the American oil industry could not respond by increasing supply. Additionally, non-Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil sources were declining as a percentage of the world oil industry, and OPEC was therefore gaining a larger percentage of the world oil market. These market dynamics, matched with the effect of OPEC nations’ greater participation rights in the industry, allowed OPEC to wield a much larger influence over the price setting mechanism in the oil market since their formation in 1960.
     

    https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/oil-shock-of-1973-74

    Replies: @Yahya, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Mikel

    btw, in inflation adjusted terms 2,2 billion at the end of 1973 would be equal roughly about 14-15 billion dollars today, while at the time full blown expensive Vietnam war was not finished yet, so then it was becoming almost two front war military supply situation for USA then.

  295. @Yahya
    @sudden death


    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn’t like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973.
     
    Well I'm on the record as saying i'm glad Israel won in their conflict with Arab states. Just because I don't like Israel and criticize their oppression of Palestinians doesn't mean I want Israelis to be genocided, which could very well have happened had Arabs won (I don't know, but rather not have taken the chance).

    I'd like to think my "praise" of Nixon was nuanced and balanced with criticism. Forgot to mention his meddling in Vietnamese peace talks during the transition was dishonorable and ties back to my comment about his lack of integrity being his key weakness.


    o much that they threw a giant hissy fit
     
    I don't appreciate your use of "hissy fit" to malign Saudi Arabia's quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves. If we wanted to play mudslinging games, I could use the same words German_Reader employs to describe Baltic states "concerns" with Russia's actions during the present conflict. But I won't.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yahya, @Yevardian

    noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves

    Depends on how you define “cost”, cause in the end they still got absolutely lavish and permanent monetary windfall from subsequent oil price raise though;)

  296. @Yahya
    @sudden death


    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn’t like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973.
     
    Well I'm on the record as saying i'm glad Israel won in their conflict with Arab states. Just because I don't like Israel and criticize their oppression of Palestinians doesn't mean I want Israelis to be genocided, which could very well have happened had Arabs won (I don't know, but rather not have taken the chance).

    I'd like to think my "praise" of Nixon was nuanced and balanced with criticism. Forgot to mention his meddling in Vietnamese peace talks during the transition was dishonorable and ties back to my comment about his lack of integrity being his key weakness.


    o much that they threw a giant hissy fit
     
    I don't appreciate your use of "hissy fit" to malign Saudi Arabia's quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves. If we wanted to play mudslinging games, I could use the same words German_Reader employs to describe Baltic states "concerns" with Russia's actions during the present conflict. But I won't.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yahya, @Yevardian

    Oh and I forgot to add this taped recording of Nixon speaking about Jews; a bit of comic relief:

    Based and red-pilled. Based and red-pilled…

    • Troll: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    Better shot of Graham and Nixon.

    https://static.billygraham.org/sites/billygrahamlibrary.org/uploads/prod/2020/10/63-6738_edit_web-scaled.jpg

    Both A123's grandmas had the hots for Billy Graham.

    Replies: @A123

  297. Awesome if true, even if the recent explosive downing of RF KA-52 helicopter arguably was even more aesthetically satisfying, but pilots did not eject, so it had overall way darker undertones, but this is very easy to cheer, cause no any harm for human lives, just the hardware on hardware type damage hopefully:

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death

    Judging by what’s happening in Ukraine in the last few weeks and by hysterical statements of gauleiters of numerous Ukrainian regions calling for the people to leave high-rise apartment buildings and cities in general, to avoid using toilets in their apartments, but dig holes in their yards and pee and defecate there instead, Ukraine is very successfully hitting the majority of Russian cruise missiles with its power infrastructure. As Pyrrhus of Epirus prophetically said centuries ago, one other such victory would utterly undo him.

  298. @AnonfromTN
    @Barbarossa


    I fully agree on Nixon.
     
    Nixon was arguably the most efficient US president in living memory. He was remarkably sane and pragmatic. His thaw with China was the greatest US geopolitical achievement in the last 50 years. Unfortunately for the US, this was lost due to idiotic attempts by recent morons to fight Russia and China at the same time.

    The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.
     
    Absolutely. Ruling a country, especially a country like the US, is a rare skill that has nothing to do with likeability or whether you’d enjoy a beer in the company of that person. E.g., you wouldn’t trust a likeable guy with whom you’d be happy to have a beer to do heart or brain surgery on you, you’d want a skilled surgeon.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @LondonBob

    I’m glad that you consider Nixon to have been “efficient, remarkably sane and pragmatic”, for so do I. For you and other admirers of Nixon, Russian policymakers should have heeded his calls for caution in regard to Ukraine:

    In his final op-ed, he wrote with characteristic prescience that a “new despotism” would fill the vacuum and Russia would be back to its old expansionist tricks, particularly with regard to Ukraine.

    “The independence of Ukraine is indispensable,” he wrote. “A Russian-Ukrainian confrontation would make Bosnia look like a Sunday-school picnic. Moscow should be made to understand that any attempt to destabilize Ukraine—to say nothing of outright aggression—would have devastating consequences for the Russian-American relationship. Ukrainian stability is in the strategic interest of the United States. To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-nixon-s-prediction-about-putin-and-ukraine-matters-opinion/ar-AAUSCVM

    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine. Nixon made it clear what US’s priorities should be in these matters.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S.”
     
    That’s funny coming from you. If you interpret this sentence and the rest of the statement literally, supporting thoroughly corrupt Ukraine paying hefty bribes to libtard politicians (e.g., Biden and his junky son) and serving as their money-laundering location is against the interests of the US. Which it really is.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine.
     
    Maybe they should release Patriot anti-air defense systems to Ukraine, but apart from that this is a strange statement.
    Whether you like it or not, it's still imperative that this proxy war remains a proxy war and doesn't turn into a direct war between Russia and NATO, so there are limits on what can be done. Nixon presumably would have understood that, political considerations placed similar limits on what the US could do regarding North Vietnam after all. And frankly, Ukraine's leadership isn't helping either. Maybe they shouldn't have talked so much about how they're going to re-conquer Crimea, which must be an alarming prospect at least to some people in the US security establishment, given the risks involved.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  299. @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    I fully agree on Nixon. The poor guy really has been unfairly maligned considering his abilities.

    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn't really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but "likability" is now king. Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his "inverse likability" was a primary draw for his base.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.

    Charisma is a pretty useful trait for a President dealing with separation of powers. One has to convince swing VIP’s, not under direct authority, to do things they might not wish to. Bludgeoning enemies who will never do the right thing is also useful. Who wants to be on the receiving end?

    Nixon was the last radio president. There is too much weight on telegenic appearance & screen craft, which is different from likability. However, there is no real way back from these characteristics.

    Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his “inverse likability” was a primary draw for his base.

    Trump is very likeable. Especially for workers & Christians who have been disadvantaged by the Uniparty system, for decades.

    I would love to have a beer with him. I would suggest he wear a yellow vest to a meeting with Macron. Trump could present Macron a gift. A specific style of Brown Shirt to, “Wear while serving German Elites instead of French Workers.” Trump would love that suggestion.

    What does inverse likability mean? Strength? Opposing Leftoids? Helping U.S. Citizens? There nothing inverse about these likeable characteristics. Being hated by Merkel is a plus.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123


    What does inverse likability mean
     
    It means that for many supporters Trump is so loved because of his ability to trigger the Left. The more the Left freaks out and hates Trump, the more certain supporters love him. So, inverse likability seems an accurate description in this case.

    I would love to have a beer with him.
     
    I don't doubt it, but I suspect it might be a disappointing experience. I sincerely doubt that Trump has any real emotional affinity for Red America. It's not his set and he doesn't spend time around them other than stump speeches.
    This is neither here nor there on the guy, but unlike other more ingenuous presidents he's probably not going to pretend to enjoy cracking a cold one with the hoi-polloi.

    Replies: @A123

  300. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm glad that you consider Nixon to have been "efficient, remarkably sane and pragmatic", for so do I. For you and other admirers of Nixon, Russian policymakers should have heeded his calls for caution in regard to Ukraine:

    In his final op-ed, he wrote with characteristic prescience that a "new despotism" would fill the vacuum and Russia would be back to its old expansionist tricks, particularly with regard to Ukraine.


    "The independence of Ukraine is indispensable," he wrote. "A Russian-Ukrainian confrontation would make Bosnia look like a Sunday-school picnic. Moscow should be made to understand that any attempt to destabilize Ukraine—to say nothing of outright aggression—would have devastating consequences for the Russian-American relationship. Ukrainian stability is in the strategic interest of the United States. To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S."
     
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-nixon-s-prediction-about-putin-and-ukraine-matters-opinion/ar-AAUSCVM

    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine. Nixon made it clear what US's priorities should be in these matters.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @German_reader

    To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S.”

    That’s funny coming from you. If you interpret this sentence and the rest of the statement literally, supporting thoroughly corrupt Ukraine paying hefty bribes to libtard politicians (e.g., Biden and his junky son) and serving as their money-laundering location is against the interests of the US. Which it really is.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    Trust me, it's even more funny that you don't realize that Russia is currently below Ukraine when judging levels of countrywide corruption:


    Ukraine has long been associated with corruption and oligarchy and Russia has used these talking points to partially justify its war against the country.

    However, analysts say that Ukraine today has made significant strides to root out corruption as they note Russia is in no position to criticise.

    According to Transparency International’s 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index, Ukraine ranked 122nd out of 180 countries, near countries such as Zambia, Gabon and Mexico, while nations like Denmark and Finland ranked first.

    That year, Ukraine was the second most corrupt in Europe. Russia was the most corrupt at 136.
     

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/15/how-problematic-is-corruption-in-ukraine :-)

    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  301. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm glad that you consider Nixon to have been "efficient, remarkably sane and pragmatic", for so do I. For you and other admirers of Nixon, Russian policymakers should have heeded his calls for caution in regard to Ukraine:

    In his final op-ed, he wrote with characteristic prescience that a "new despotism" would fill the vacuum and Russia would be back to its old expansionist tricks, particularly with regard to Ukraine.


    "The independence of Ukraine is indispensable," he wrote. "A Russian-Ukrainian confrontation would make Bosnia look like a Sunday-school picnic. Moscow should be made to understand that any attempt to destabilize Ukraine—to say nothing of outright aggression—would have devastating consequences for the Russian-American relationship. Ukrainian stability is in the strategic interest of the United States. To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S."
     
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-nixon-s-prediction-about-putin-and-ukraine-matters-opinion/ar-AAUSCVM

    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine. Nixon made it clear what US's priorities should be in these matters.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @German_reader

    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine.

    Maybe they should release Patriot anti-air defense systems to Ukraine, but apart from that this is a strange statement.
    Whether you like it or not, it’s still imperative that this proxy war remains a proxy war and doesn’t turn into a direct war between Russia and NATO, so there are limits on what can be done. Nixon presumably would have understood that, political considerations placed similar limits on what the US could do regarding North Vietnam after all. And frankly, Ukraine’s leadership isn’t helping either. Maybe they shouldn’t have talked so much about how they’re going to re-conquer Crimea, which must be an alarming prospect at least to some people in the US security establishment, given the risks involved.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Maybe they should release Patriot anti-air defense systems to Ukraine, but apart from that this is a strange statement.
     
    This is exactly what I had in mind.

    (A few more heimar systems could come in handy too!). :-)

    Replies: @German_reader

  302. @sudden death
    Awesome if true, even if the recent explosive downing of RF KA-52 helicopter arguably was even more aesthetically satisfying, but pilots did not eject, so it had overall way darker undertones, but this is very easy to cheer, cause no any harm for human lives, just the hardware on hardware type damage hopefully:


    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1599810159236112406?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1599810159236112406%7Ctwgr%5E65da9b0bb7059faf8d6598046a77c95025dcb905%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FUkrainianConflict%2Fcomments%2Fzdcny8%2Fgepard_takes_down_cruise_missle_video%2F

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Judging by what’s happening in Ukraine in the last few weeks and by hysterical statements of gauleiters of numerous Ukrainian regions calling for the people to leave high-rise apartment buildings and cities in general, to avoid using toilets in their apartments, but dig holes in their yards and pee and defecate there instead, Ukraine is very successfully hitting the majority of Russian cruise missiles with its power infrastructure. As Pyrrhus of Epirus prophetically said centuries ago, one other such victory would utterly undo him.

  303. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    To the extent that Kiev is prepared to proceed with economic reforms, supporting these efforts should be a national security priority for the U.S.”
     
    That’s funny coming from you. If you interpret this sentence and the rest of the statement literally, supporting thoroughly corrupt Ukraine paying hefty bribes to libtard politicians (e.g., Biden and his junky son) and serving as their money-laundering location is against the interests of the US. Which it really is.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Trust me, it’s even more funny that you don’t realize that Russia is currently below Ukraine when judging levels of countrywide corruption:

    Ukraine has long been associated with corruption and oligarchy and Russia has used these talking points to partially justify its war against the country.

    However, analysts say that Ukraine today has made significant strides to root out corruption as they note Russia is in no position to criticise.

    According to Transparency International’s 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index, Ukraine ranked 122nd out of 180 countries, near countries such as Zambia, Gabon and Mexico, while nations like Denmark and Finland ranked first.

    That year, Ukraine was the second most corrupt in Europe. Russia was the most corrupt at 136.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/15/how-problematic-is-corruption-in-ukraine 🙂

    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.
     
    “Experts” in organizations wholly owned by the empire surely are trustworthy. BTW, some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

  304. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    Too bad that the current crop of US leaders are actually too weak in their support of Ukraine.
     
    Maybe they should release Patriot anti-air defense systems to Ukraine, but apart from that this is a strange statement.
    Whether you like it or not, it's still imperative that this proxy war remains a proxy war and doesn't turn into a direct war between Russia and NATO, so there are limits on what can be done. Nixon presumably would have understood that, political considerations placed similar limits on what the US could do regarding North Vietnam after all. And frankly, Ukraine's leadership isn't helping either. Maybe they shouldn't have talked so much about how they're going to re-conquer Crimea, which must be an alarming prospect at least to some people in the US security establishment, given the risks involved.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Maybe they should release Patriot anti-air defense systems to Ukraine, but apart from that this is a strange statement.

    This is exactly what I had in mind.

    (A few more heimar systems could come in handy too!). 🙂

    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    A few more heimar systems could come in handy too!
     
    I think the problem (apart from the political considerations mentioned above) in this regard, also for other artillery systems, is the shortage of ammunition, shells etc. Apparently stockpiles are already dangerously low, certainly in Europe, but possibly even in the US. It's probably a failure which can be legitimately criticized that not more was done over the summer to ensure the arms industry in Western countries can produce an adequate supply.
  305. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    Trust me, it's even more funny that you don't realize that Russia is currently below Ukraine when judging levels of countrywide corruption:


    Ukraine has long been associated with corruption and oligarchy and Russia has used these talking points to partially justify its war against the country.

    However, analysts say that Ukraine today has made significant strides to root out corruption as they note Russia is in no position to criticise.

    According to Transparency International’s 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index, Ukraine ranked 122nd out of 180 countries, near countries such as Zambia, Gabon and Mexico, while nations like Denmark and Finland ranked first.

    That year, Ukraine was the second most corrupt in Europe. Russia was the most corrupt at 136.
     

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/15/how-problematic-is-corruption-in-ukraine :-)

    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.

    “Experts” in organizations wholly owned by the empire surely are trustworthy. BTW, some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    There's plenty written about Russian corruption written by Russians themselves that don't work for any nefarious "western organizations". But you're right to be weary of these sorts of individuals. Don't you work for a large US organization? A university system in Tennessee? Most everything you write is oozing with unfounded praise and admiration for Russia?....

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Barbarossa
    @AnonfromTN


    some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.
     
    OT but I had an extended email exchange with a flat-earther once. It was an instructive experience in witnessing the power of constructed alternative realities.

    He had a plethora of "scientific facts" which quite frankly I had neither the time or expertise to debate. I tried to keep the discussion to what he and I could actually personally observe in an effort to make some headway.

    He tried to tell me that the moon and planets were not spherical at all and that the moon is a "semi-transparent luminescent disk".

    I like astronomy and I have a decent little telescope and from personal observation it's clearly spherical, has shadows, etc. I've seen the rings of Saturn pretty clearly. All the visible attributes point to spherical.

    He did concede the point on the moon, declaiming that he "wasn't a moon expert, after all" , but would allow no crack in his overall theory. He was a local guy, completely in earnest, and actually quite smart I think. However the worldview was so reinforced that I am not sure his mind could be changed, at least not by me. I gave up eventually once I realized it was a pretty hopeless experiment.

    It was a bit disconcerting honestly, though instructive. Self- deception is a dangerous thing and one that none of us are completely immune from.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  306. @Yahya
    @Yahya

    Oh and I forgot to add this taped recording of Nixon speaking about Jews; a bit of comic relief:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4KCX_NW3To&ab_channel=CBSNews

    Based and red-pilled. Based and red-pilled...

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Better shot of Graham and Nixon.

    Both A123’s grandmas had the hots for Billy Graham.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Here is a picture of Adolf Hitler and Hermann Göring

     
    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/06/22/36F34DAD00000578-3727263-image-m-18_1470518302220.jpg
     

    Both Emil Nikola Richard's grandmas were all over Adolf like Mayo on Wonder Bread. One has to wonder if Emil knows who his grandpa actually is.
    ___

    Is there a point to silliness like this?

    If you insist, I will raise. However, low-IQ Yahoo behaviour is not particularly constructive on your part.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya

  307. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Maybe they should release Patriot anti-air defense systems to Ukraine, but apart from that this is a strange statement.
     
    This is exactly what I had in mind.

    (A few more heimar systems could come in handy too!). :-)

    Replies: @German_reader

    A few more heimar systems could come in handy too!

    I think the problem (apart from the political considerations mentioned above) in this regard, also for other artillery systems, is the shortage of ammunition, shells etc. Apparently stockpiles are already dangerously low, certainly in Europe, but possibly even in the US. It’s probably a failure which can be legitimately criticized that not more was done over the summer to ensure the arms industry in Western countries can produce an adequate supply.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  308. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    Better shot of Graham and Nixon.

    https://static.billygraham.org/sites/billygrahamlibrary.org/uploads/prod/2020/10/63-6738_edit_web-scaled.jpg

    Both A123's grandmas had the hots for Billy Graham.

    Replies: @A123

    Here is a picture of Adolf Hitler and Hermann Göring

     

     

    Both Emil Nikola Richard’s grandmas were all over Adolf like Mayo on Wonder Bread. One has to wonder if Emil knows who his grandpa actually is.
    ___

    Is there a point to silliness like this?

    If you insist, I will raise. However, low-IQ Yahoo behaviour is not particularly constructive on your part.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @A123

    Lol, this exchange gave me a good laugh!

    On a more serious note, if we were pointing figures, I suspect German_Reader's grandparents were most likely to have had a thing for Der Führer, considering he's the only German around here.

    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members. Perhaps he would be so kind as to add more color to this interesting anecdote, and what sort of professional background (the i.e. the military or academia?) they came from, if he wishes to without self-doxing?

    I mentioned before one of my favorite books the Silences Of Hammerstein about an enigmatic Prussian officer by the name of Kurt von Hammerstein. His family were just as interesting as he was; some of them were communist spies and others were involved with Colonal-General Beck in the plot to assassinate the Fuhrer. Baron von Hammerstein himself came close to assassinating Hitler in the 1940s, when he was appointed to a command post and invited Hitler to visit the troops, which the latter with his uncanny ability to sense danger, had declined. Hitler had appointed this general to the command post even though he was known to be an outspoken opponent of the regime, likely due to KVH's sharp intellect and strategic aptitude. Hammerstein was famous in military circles for this perceptive quote, which was displayed by British military officers in their offices:

    https://danielelrizzo.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/190321_kurtvonhammerstein-equord.jpg

    You can see him pictured here to the right of Hitler in another event:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA710Cy9BFA&t=135s&ab_channel=Whatisupwiththat100

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @German_reader

  309. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.
     
    “Experts” in organizations wholly owned by the empire surely are trustworthy. BTW, some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    There’s plenty written about Russian corruption written by Russians themselves that don’t work for any nefarious “western organizations”. But you’re right to be weary of these sorts of individuals. Don’t you work for a large US organization? A university system in Tennessee? Most everything you write is oozing with unfounded praise and admiration for Russia?….

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    Most everything you write is oozing with unfounded praise and admiration for Russia?….
     
    Sorry to disappoint, but I am just scientifically comparing two systems: the RF and the US. Neither is perfect, both have numerous flaws. But in objective comparison today’s RF wins hands down.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  310. @A123
    @Barbarossa


    An effective leader does not have to be a likable person. The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.
     
    Charisma is a pretty useful trait for a President dealing with separation of powers. One has to convince swing VIP's, not under direct authority, to do things they might not wish to. Bludgeoning enemies who will never do the right thing is also useful. Who wants to be on the receiving end?

    Nixon was the last radio president. There is too much weight on telegenic appearance & screen craft, which is different from likability. However, there is no real way back from these characteristics.

    Even Trump represents this, as what could be called his “inverse likability” was a primary draw for his base.
     
    Trump is very likeable. Especially for workers & Christians who have been disadvantaged by the Uniparty system, for decades.

    I would love to have a beer with him. I would suggest he wear a yellow vest to a meeting with Macron. Trump could present Macron a gift. A specific style of Brown Shirt to, "Wear while serving German Elites instead of French Workers." Trump would love that suggestion.

    What does inverse likability mean? Strength? Opposing Leftoids? Helping U.S. Citizens? There nothing inverse about these likeable characteristics. Being hated by Merkel is a plus.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    What does inverse likability mean

    It means that for many supporters Trump is so loved because of his ability to trigger the Left. The more the Left freaks out and hates Trump, the more certain supporters love him. So, inverse likability seems an accurate description in this case.

    I would love to have a beer with him.

    I don’t doubt it, but I suspect it might be a disappointing experience. I sincerely doubt that Trump has any real emotional affinity for Red America. It’s not his set and he doesn’t spend time around them other than stump speeches.
    This is neither here nor there on the guy, but unlike other more ingenuous presidents he’s probably not going to pretend to enjoy cracking a cold one with the hoi-polloi.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    It means that for many supporters Trump is so loved because of his ability to trigger the Left. The more the Left freaks out and hates Trump, the more certain supporters love him. So, inverse likability seems an accurate description in this case.

     

    So in 1517 Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses to the door of Wittenberg Castle. The establishment freaked out and hated him. Ordinary people basked in Luther's inverse likability because he was willing to tell the truth about corruption. This places Trump in excellent company.

    I still do not follow your need for the term "inverse". Why not simply admit that Donald Trump and Martin Luther are inherently likeable?


    I sincerely doubt that Trump has any real emotional affinity for Red America.
     
    If he does not have an affinity why did he run?

    He had plenty of options to pad his ego without spending his own money. Being brutally attacked by Leftoids and surrender monkeys requires commitment. Doubting Trump's sincerity makes no sense as it 100% contradicts known facts.


    I suspect it might be a disappointing experience.
    ...
    he’s probably not going to pretend to enjoy cracking a cold one with the hoi-polloi.
     
    OK. He is not going to fit in at the lowest tier. Those with a 500 word vocabulary and improper dental work. Tractor pulls are out as entertainment.

    Trump has spent time around the NY property development crowd, which can be less than high class. I suspect he has a more expansive ability for fun than you credit.

    PEACE 😇

  311. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    There's plenty written about Russian corruption written by Russians themselves that don't work for any nefarious "western organizations". But you're right to be weary of these sorts of individuals. Don't you work for a large US organization? A university system in Tennessee? Most everything you write is oozing with unfounded praise and admiration for Russia?....

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Most everything you write is oozing with unfounded praise and admiration for Russia?….

    Sorry to disappoint, but I am just scientifically comparing two systems: the RF and the US. Neither is perfect, both have numerous flaws. But in objective comparison today’s RF wins hands down.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN


    But in objective comparison today’s RF wins hands down.
     
    If you really feel this way, and your opinion is based on "scientific" research methods, then today more than even yesterday, I encourage you to return. I mean really, why would you not, if you really feel this way and aren't just BSing us and yourself?:

    https://www.tbsnews.net/sites/default/files/styles/big_3/public/images/2022/04/07/russia_us_hasina_cartoon_2_final.png
    Take that college pension and run – Mother Russia awaits its true patriots, Prof Janissar. Don’t put off returning any longer. Breathe free again!

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  312. @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Only now does the “Right” see that perhaps global corporations and the FBI are not their friends, but the realization is a little late to mean much.

     

    What do you hope to achieve with your policy of highly vocal calls for "unilateral surrender"? If everyone believed you, what would be the outcome?

    Why not embrace the MAGA fight against global MegaCorporations? Even if it is too late, is that not the only morally correct choice? Giving up is akin to suicide.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.trumparea.com/_pics/2211/hopeless.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I’m not calling for unilateral surrender, it’s just important to understand the past realistically. If Red America had opposed the security state expansions under W. Bush tooth and nail, we could have plausibly avoided it entirely. It’s a lot easier to head something off rather than topple an entrenched system.

    So, there is a certain irony to conservatives realizing that these systems have a downside only when they look down the barrel of the gun they built.

    A lot of Left wing people are being similarly played for fools right now to advance further consolidation of power. They’ll figure it out in a few years when they are no longer needed.

    Besides, if I was giving up I wouldn’t have 5 kids and be putting so much effort into their upbringing. However, if we are talking about the way out of this it has to focus on heading of indoctrination of our kids, while living a positive value system that has substance.

    Myopic focus on national politics often detracts from this. I don’t know how many people in their 50’s and 60’s I talk to that are aghast at what their children believe in. However they largely outsourced parenting to schools and TV. You reap what you sow, and conservatives better start working that ground a lot harder if they want to take society back.

    There are plenty of good parents out there who have done a great job raising their kids to be happily counter-cultural, and I’m thankful for them. However, it’s a only a minority. Until conservatives get it through their heads that they live in a wholly hostile society they are going to behave naively.

    People are starting to get it, but it’s too late to avoid a sizable gap generation or two that will overwhelmingly passively tolerant of Woke messaging. This is going to be painful times for a while. Even if Trump or Desantis is elected in 2024 it’s not going to change what’s already baked into society.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    it’s just important to understand the past realistically. If Red America had opposed the security state expansions under W. Bush tooth and nail, we could have plausibly avoided it entirely. It’s a lot easier to head something off rather than topple an entrenched system
     
    I concur.

    However under W, the Uniparty had a Corporate wing and and Progressive wing. Neither were going to stand up against security state expansion. I and many others thought "Homeland Security" was a mistake. However, both parties of the two party system wanted it.

    In what realistic way was your desired resistance supposed to act?

    Explain the actually achievable steps that could have been realistically successful against the joint DNC/GOP Establishment.
    ____

    Equally important is looking at the past of Trump's 1st Term realistically.

    Trump faced:
        • Non-MAGA House
        • Non-MAGA Senate
        • Non-MAGA Judiciary
        • Non-MAGA Deep State

    The whiners who do not see Trump's successes versus overwhelming odds are sucking the life out of a reform movement that will take multiple Presidents. Lying about Trump and demanding things that were not realistically achievable is "giving aide and comfort to the enemy".

    A lot of Left wing people are being similarly played for fools right now to advance further consolidation of power.
     
    I concur.

    The Left has a huge list of self destructive causes -- BLM, Antifa, pro-Pali anti-Semitism, Ukie Maximalism, Climate Change mythology, etc.

    Open borders, visa scams, illegal migration, etc. are the collective worst. A nation without a common culture is lost. America, Southern Europe, and Eastern Europe can head this off. When one looks at Germany, it really may be too late.

    outsourced parenting to schools and TV. You reap what you sow, and conservatives better start working that ground a lot harder if they want to take society back.
    ...
    it’s too late to avoid a sizable gap generation or two that will overwhelmingly passively tolerant of Woke messaging. This is going to be painful times for a while. Even if Trump or Desantis is elected in 2024 it’s not going to change what’s already baked into society.

     

    MAGA (both Trump & DeSantis) see the culture war issues. Look at the fights over school boards, firing of prosecutors who do not enforce the law, etc.

    I have said many times that the hole took decades to dig. And, it will take decades to fill back in. Bashing Trump for not achieving 40+ years of remediation in only 4 years is literally INSANE. Which is the realistic plan:

        • Blowing up MAGA by inciting a battle between Trump and DeSantis?
        • Running MAGA long term extending this duo out of over 12 years of Presidential politics?

    Anyone who thinks the first option is realistic is an SJW Globalist plant. A RINO run by DeSantis has no possible realistic upside.

    PEACE 😇
  313. @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Here is a picture of Adolf Hitler and Hermann Göring

     
    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/06/22/36F34DAD00000578-3727263-image-m-18_1470518302220.jpg
     

    Both Emil Nikola Richard's grandmas were all over Adolf like Mayo on Wonder Bread. One has to wonder if Emil knows who his grandpa actually is.
    ___

    Is there a point to silliness like this?

    If you insist, I will raise. However, low-IQ Yahoo behaviour is not particularly constructive on your part.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya

    Lol, this exchange gave me a good laugh!

    On a more serious note, if we were pointing figures, I suspect German_Reader’s grandparents were most likely to have had a thing for Der Führer, considering he’s the only German around here.

    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members. Perhaps he would be so kind as to add more color to this interesting anecdote, and what sort of professional background (the i.e. the military or academia?) they came from, if he wishes to without self-doxing?

    I mentioned before one of my favorite books the Silences Of Hammerstein about an enigmatic Prussian officer by the name of Kurt von Hammerstein. His family were just as interesting as he was; some of them were communist spies and others were involved with Colonal-General Beck in the plot to assassinate the Fuhrer. Baron von Hammerstein himself came close to assassinating Hitler in the 1940s, when he was appointed to a command post and invited Hitler to visit the troops, which the latter with his uncanny ability to sense danger, had declined. Hitler had appointed this general to the command post even though he was known to be an outspoken opponent of the regime, likely due to KVH’s sharp intellect and strategic aptitude. Hammerstein was famous in military circles for this perceptive quote, which was displayed by British military officers in their offices:

    You can see him pictured here to the right of Hitler in another event:

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.
     
    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know). Maybe they have a point: most of Hitler supporters of that period are dead, among the few survivors many are senile.

    However, some things should be remembered. Germany was in Ukraine twice in the twentieth century. The final result was equally disastrous for Germany both times. Germany is in Ukraine now, although not as an independent actor, just playing second fiddle to its overlords. But the overlords are far away and protected (they think) by nukes. So, by their logic, either they win (which would yield nothing for Germany), or they lose. Then the pawns will suffer while the overlords sit it out. So, it’s a lose-lose situation for Germany. Yet it willingly walked into this trap. As German thinker Hegel aptly said, “we learn from history that we do not learn from history”.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yahya, @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @German_reader
    @Yahya


    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.
     
    If you really want to know, my two German great-grandfathers (born in 1896 and 1897) both joined NSDAP in 1937. They weren't anything special, both WW1 veterans (one had earned an Iron Cross, the other lost part of his lower leg iirc), one a carpenter, the other a glassblower, one Protestant, one Catholic. As for their motives, I know only fragments, my relatives are mostly dead or estranged so I can't ask. The way I remember it, with my grandmother's father there was a good deal of opportunism, because he had been unemployed for a long time and hoped for personal advantages through party membership. With my grandfather's parents it may have been more genuine belief, especially with his mother (who apparently believed in final victory until near the end in 1945).
    How culpable they became beyond that, I can't know for sure. Before the pandemic I made some attempts at requests from archives for information. Essentially it only confirmed what I had already known. I wrote to the relevant archive asking whether there was a de-Nazification file for my grandfather's parents, and they told me there wasn't one, they were classified as Mitläufer (low-ranking or nominal party members who joined from 1937 onwards) and amnestied by the French occupation authorities in 1948. Maybe there is something in collective files. I may at some point try to see if I can find out more, but obviously there may be a lot the surviving documents can't tell you.
  314. @Barbarossa
    @A123


    What does inverse likability mean
     
    It means that for many supporters Trump is so loved because of his ability to trigger the Left. The more the Left freaks out and hates Trump, the more certain supporters love him. So, inverse likability seems an accurate description in this case.

    I would love to have a beer with him.
     
    I don't doubt it, but I suspect it might be a disappointing experience. I sincerely doubt that Trump has any real emotional affinity for Red America. It's not his set and he doesn't spend time around them other than stump speeches.
    This is neither here nor there on the guy, but unlike other more ingenuous presidents he's probably not going to pretend to enjoy cracking a cold one with the hoi-polloi.

    Replies: @A123

    It means that for many supporters Trump is so loved because of his ability to trigger the Left. The more the Left freaks out and hates Trump, the more certain supporters love him. So, inverse likability seems an accurate description in this case.

    So in 1517 Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses to the door of Wittenberg Castle. The establishment freaked out and hated him. Ordinary people basked in Luther’s inverse likability because he was willing to tell the truth about corruption. This places Trump in excellent company.

    I still do not follow your need for the term “inverse”. Why not simply admit that Donald Trump and Martin Luther are inherently likeable?

    I sincerely doubt that Trump has any real emotional affinity for Red America.

    If he does not have an affinity why did he run?

    He had plenty of options to pad his ego without spending his own money. Being brutally attacked by Leftoids and surrender monkeys requires commitment. Doubting Trump’s sincerity makes no sense as it 100% contradicts known facts.

    I suspect it might be a disappointing experience.

    he’s probably not going to pretend to enjoy cracking a cold one with the hoi-polloi.

    OK. He is not going to fit in at the lowest tier. Those with a 500 word vocabulary and improper dental work. Tractor pulls are out as entertainment.

    Trump has spent time around the NY property development crowd, which can be less than high class. I suspect he has a more expansive ability for fun than you credit.

    PEACE 😇

  315. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    Although still a problem, corruption is going down year by year within Ukraine.
     
    “Experts” in organizations wholly owned by the empire surely are trustworthy. BTW, some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.

    OT but I had an extended email exchange with a flat-earther once. It was an instructive experience in witnessing the power of constructed alternative realities.

    He had a plethora of “scientific facts” which quite frankly I had neither the time or expertise to debate. I tried to keep the discussion to what he and I could actually personally observe in an effort to make some headway.

    He tried to tell me that the moon and planets were not spherical at all and that the moon is a “semi-transparent luminescent disk”.

    I like astronomy and I have a decent little telescope and from personal observation it’s clearly spherical, has shadows, etc. I’ve seen the rings of Saturn pretty clearly. All the visible attributes point to spherical.

    He did concede the point on the moon, declaiming that he “wasn’t a moon expert, after all” , but would allow no crack in his overall theory. He was a local guy, completely in earnest, and actually quite smart I think. However the worldview was so reinforced that I am not sure his mind could be changed, at least not by me. I gave up eventually once I realized it was a pretty hopeless experiment.

    It was a bit disconcerting honestly, though instructive. Self- deception is a dangerous thing and one that none of us are completely immune from.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Barbarossa


    It was a bit disconcerting honestly, though instructive. Self- deception is a dangerous thing and one that none of us are completely immune from.
     
    Yes, “true believers” in anything are unshakable. “Credo quia absurdum” is a quintessence of a “true belief”. In my experience, arguing with a “true believer” is pointless.

    I think that your point that no one is immune to “true beliefs” is well taken. We all have our blind spots that we subconsciously fill with garbage, which we regard as truth.
  316. @Yahya
    @A123

    Lol, this exchange gave me a good laugh!

    On a more serious note, if we were pointing figures, I suspect German_Reader's grandparents were most likely to have had a thing for Der Führer, considering he's the only German around here.

    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members. Perhaps he would be so kind as to add more color to this interesting anecdote, and what sort of professional background (the i.e. the military or academia?) they came from, if he wishes to without self-doxing?

    I mentioned before one of my favorite books the Silences Of Hammerstein about an enigmatic Prussian officer by the name of Kurt von Hammerstein. His family were just as interesting as he was; some of them were communist spies and others were involved with Colonal-General Beck in the plot to assassinate the Fuhrer. Baron von Hammerstein himself came close to assassinating Hitler in the 1940s, when he was appointed to a command post and invited Hitler to visit the troops, which the latter with his uncanny ability to sense danger, had declined. Hitler had appointed this general to the command post even though he was known to be an outspoken opponent of the regime, likely due to KVH's sharp intellect and strategic aptitude. Hammerstein was famous in military circles for this perceptive quote, which was displayed by British military officers in their offices:

    https://danielelrizzo.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/190321_kurtvonhammerstein-equord.jpg

    You can see him pictured here to the right of Hitler in another event:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA710Cy9BFA&t=135s&ab_channel=Whatisupwiththat100

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @German_reader

    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.

    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know). Maybe they have a point: most of Hitler supporters of that period are dead, among the few survivors many are senile.

    However, some things should be remembered. Germany was in Ukraine twice in the twentieth century. The final result was equally disastrous for Germany both times. Germany is in Ukraine now, although not as an independent actor, just playing second fiddle to its overlords. But the overlords are far away and protected (they think) by nukes. So, by their logic, either they win (which would yield nothing for Germany), or they lose. Then the pawns will suffer while the overlords sit it out. So, it’s a lose-lose situation for Germany. Yet it willingly walked into this trap. As German thinker Hegel aptly said, “we learn from history that we do not learn from history”.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @AnonfromTN


    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know).
     
    I agree. Germans haven't sufficiently come to terms with their grandparents' mistakes and atoned for their sins. After paying mightily for supporting Nazi Germany in 1933 they refuse to learn their lesson and continue to support Nazi Ukraine in 2022. The obvious solution for Germans is to stop their support for the Fourth Reich in Ukraine and instead arm the heroic Russian soldiers with bombers and artillery in their quest to turn Ukraine into rubble. That would redeem Germany forever in the eye of the Lord and perhaps give them a chance to recover their lost pride and self-confidence.
    , @Yahya
    @AnonfromTN

    PS: the above comment isn't directed at you personally; I appreciate your comments and enjoy reading them frequently. I'm just mocking the general attitude pro-Russian commentors have. My sympathies rest with Ukraine on this issue (not that it matters) and you're not going to convince me it's because i've been lied to by the media or am just following the crowd. In the Arab world people are more sympathetic to Russia than Ukraine.

    , @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    Yet it willingly walked into this trap.
     
    The alternatives were limited. Merkel (much as I hate her in general) tried to broker a compromise, but as it turned out, Germany didn't have the power and influence to enforce it against opposition. Of course much of the German political class is also incompetent and/or compromised by transatlantic relationships, but even if that were different, the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.
    On top of that, Putin then decided to go for brute force in a way that made everyone who had argued for working towards a rapprochement with Russia look like an idiot or a paid influence agent. Yes, I get it, there probably was a real sense of having been betrayed by Germany and France over the Minsk agreements, maybe even justified to some extent, but still, Russia's actions since February couldn't but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage. There was also intense pressure on Germany with all those "Molotov-Ribbentropp 2.0" accusations, even a more cautious government with less idiotic ministers couldn't have resisted involvement in Ukraine. So maybe you should for once consider what Russia has contributed to the current state of affairs.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN


    The Third Reich fell in 1945.
     
    The generals and admirals surrendered unconditionally. The party never surrendered. It moved to south Argentina with a satellite in the United States space program.

    If you examine the recent history of the world unprejudiced their ongoing influence is obvious.

    There are a number of errors in this but it is not a bad treatment:

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/6101647-nazi-international

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  317. @Barbarossa
    @AnonfromTN


    some “experts” say that the Earth is flat. There are many websites featuring those “experts”.
     
    OT but I had an extended email exchange with a flat-earther once. It was an instructive experience in witnessing the power of constructed alternative realities.

    He had a plethora of "scientific facts" which quite frankly I had neither the time or expertise to debate. I tried to keep the discussion to what he and I could actually personally observe in an effort to make some headway.

    He tried to tell me that the moon and planets were not spherical at all and that the moon is a "semi-transparent luminescent disk".

    I like astronomy and I have a decent little telescope and from personal observation it's clearly spherical, has shadows, etc. I've seen the rings of Saturn pretty clearly. All the visible attributes point to spherical.

    He did concede the point on the moon, declaiming that he "wasn't a moon expert, after all" , but would allow no crack in his overall theory. He was a local guy, completely in earnest, and actually quite smart I think. However the worldview was so reinforced that I am not sure his mind could be changed, at least not by me. I gave up eventually once I realized it was a pretty hopeless experiment.

    It was a bit disconcerting honestly, though instructive. Self- deception is a dangerous thing and one that none of us are completely immune from.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    It was a bit disconcerting honestly, though instructive. Self- deception is a dangerous thing and one that none of us are completely immune from.

    Yes, “true believers” in anything are unshakable. “Credo quia absurdum” is a quintessence of a “true belief”. In my experience, arguing with a “true believer” is pointless.

    I think that your point that no one is immune to “true beliefs” is well taken. We all have our blind spots that we subconsciously fill with garbage, which we regard as truth.

  318. @A123
    @Mikhail


    Great sarcasm on Western mass media
     
    Americans despise & disbelieve the Fake Stream "Euro/Western" Media.

     
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.mediapost.com/dam/cropped/2018/04/04/copy-of-copy-of-rishad-chart-3_vcwxDGP.jpg
     

    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional "news" media fabrications. Ripping on European (a.k.a. Western) godless mass media is very MAGA.

    Thank You for Your Support of TRUMP 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Mikel

    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional “news” media fabrications.

    In a deep sense Trump is right that the 2020 election was rigged. All the main purveyors of information colluded in favor of one candidate and lied as required to make him win, as we’re seeing with the Twitter Files. It was fraud in plain sight, as Tucker warned at the time. We used to criticize authoritarian regimes for this very practice and some liberals still have the nerve to continue doing it. As for fraud at the polling stations, all legal provisions were taken. Courts, including the Supreme Court, reviewed the complaints, so did the state legislatures and there were even vote recounts organized by those still unconvinced. No result-altering evidence was found by any of them. Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended is as moronic as his idea that he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.

    Unfortunately, Trump did manage to build a cult of diehard followers who continue to believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance. The result will obviously be that conservatives and others with sane views on topics like the border and woke lunacy will lose for the 4th straight time. Things can get so bad that I’m not sure how much those topics will matter in 2028 but you’ll surely be among the ones still defending a Trump-28 ticket while whining that the ’24 elections (or primaries) were rigged again.

    “Leadership is about setting the vision and then producing results, and so our actions are really what matters.” DeSantis

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel

    2020 elections were rigged in many ways and in most cases the bodies that reviewed the complaints consisted of supporters of the riggers. But all of that is now proverbial “the snows of yesteryear”. The objective in 2024 should be to save whatever is still salvageable in the US.

    I agree that Trump is inconsistent with that objective. First, the leaders should be wise, but still vigorous, which means 40-60 years age window. Second, Trump’s talk turned out to be mostly empty. The percentage of blunders he made with his appointments suggests that there is no hope for his presidency. His only redeeming quality is that everyone deserving the noose in the political establishment hates him.

    And that’s where “true believer” Trumpists can spoil everything. Nominating Trump would most certainly hand the victory to whatever woke nonentity the Dems nominate. Another four years of that would put the US beyond salvage (optimistically assuming that it is still salvageable now).

    I am not so sure about DeSantis. Yes, in many ways Florida appeared an island of sanity in a raging madhouse. But can he actually wrestle power from those who put a demented half-corpse into the White House? I am not sure.

    If I decide to vote in 2024, I will certainly vote against every Dem on the ballot. Question is, even if every sensible person does that, would it actually save the country? I don’t know the answer.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @A123
    @Mikel

    If you a trying to prove you are an unhinged #NeverTrump Cultist... Congratulations!


    No result-altering evidence was found by any of them.
     
    Why are you lying?

    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1T4aIgxGFw

    Only #NeverTrump Cultists deny that Trump won in 2020.

    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended
     
    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.

    he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.
     
    Another #NeverTrump Cult lie.

    Why do you keep lying when you know there is no chance it will be believed?

    believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance.
     
    Trump will be 78 in 2024. Not-The-President Biden just reached 80. Why are you comingling their stats? Could it be mindless cultism on your part?

    Trump has already won twice. Winning a third time is achievable. Only #NeverTrump Cultists believe that winning is impossible.

    ___

    This is going to be hard for you, but do you grasp that there is only one 100% guaranteed way to prevent Trump running in 2028?

    Are you ready for it?

    Here it is.... Helping Trump win in 2024. Once he uses up his 2nd term, he will be involuntary elevated to termed out "Elder Statesman". You can get everything you want by Trump winning.

    If your cult blocks Trump from receiving the office he won in 2020... what will be the result? More Trump!

    We all understand that cults are by, definition, less than entirely rational. However, yours is truly special. Every #NeverTrump action you envision results in more Trump for a longer period of time.
    ___

    Be realistic. If DeSantis goes MegaCorporation RINO to beat Trump in the primaries, how can he win the General Election after offending the MAGA base. The Fake Stream Media will turn on him, and DeSantis does not have the proven skills to win via social media.

    So the actual path that you realistically seek is:
        • DeSantis losing the Presidential election in 2024.
        • Trump running in the 2028 Primary.

    Unrealistic #NeverTrump Cult extremism will guarantee many more years of Trump.

    Your support, albeit unwitting, is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @A123
    @Mikel


    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended
     
    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.
    ____

    Here is more information directly on this point (1)

    Trump has now issued a clarification of his earlier post on the same platform, his TruthSocial:


    “The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to ‘terminate’ the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is ‘MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,’ as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!”

     

    Again, whether Trump’s claim that the election was stolen is true or not is a separate issue; he didn’t call for an end to the Constitution. But put aside the usual Trumpian melodrama, and there’s a really interesting contention underneath.

    Presuming a situation (for the sake of argument) where the 2020 election was stolen from Trump — a position that does have evidence to support it — the current administration would be illegitimate and the United States would have ceased to be a Republic. In that case, the Constitution and other republican laws would not, in fact, help the American people, because they only work as protections under a system of government that would have ceased to exist. Perhaps, instead of falsely accusing Trump of wanting to end the Constitution, the media should instead take on the argument I just articulated.

    The truly controversial and bombshell thing Trump claimed was that we are no longer living in a Republic. That’s what the media — and the American people — should be debating.
     
    If you are serious, you will admit you were wrong and apologize.

    Cultists are incapable of admitting error. If you refuse to recant, you provide more objective evidence about your dishonest extremism.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/catherinesalgado/2022/12/05/trump-clarifies-statement-misrepresented-as-a-call-to-end-to-u-s-constitution-n1651031

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

  319. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @A123

    Lol, this exchange gave me a good laugh!

    On a more serious note, if we were pointing figures, I suspect German_Reader's grandparents were most likely to have had a thing for Der Führer, considering he's the only German around here.

    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members. Perhaps he would be so kind as to add more color to this interesting anecdote, and what sort of professional background (the i.e. the military or academia?) they came from, if he wishes to without self-doxing?

    I mentioned before one of my favorite books the Silences Of Hammerstein about an enigmatic Prussian officer by the name of Kurt von Hammerstein. His family were just as interesting as he was; some of them were communist spies and others were involved with Colonal-General Beck in the plot to assassinate the Fuhrer. Baron von Hammerstein himself came close to assassinating Hitler in the 1940s, when he was appointed to a command post and invited Hitler to visit the troops, which the latter with his uncanny ability to sense danger, had declined. Hitler had appointed this general to the command post even though he was known to be an outspoken opponent of the regime, likely due to KVH's sharp intellect and strategic aptitude. Hammerstein was famous in military circles for this perceptive quote, which was displayed by British military officers in their offices:

    https://danielelrizzo.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/190321_kurtvonhammerstein-equord.jpg

    You can see him pictured here to the right of Hitler in another event:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA710Cy9BFA&t=135s&ab_channel=Whatisupwiththat100

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @German_reader

    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.

    If you really want to know, my two German great-grandfathers (born in 1896 and 1897) both joined NSDAP in 1937. They weren’t anything special, both WW1 veterans (one had earned an Iron Cross, the other lost part of his lower leg iirc), one a carpenter, the other a glassblower, one Protestant, one Catholic. As for their motives, I know only fragments, my relatives are mostly dead or estranged so I can’t ask. The way I remember it, with my grandmother’s father there was a good deal of opportunism, because he had been unemployed for a long time and hoped for personal advantages through party membership. With my grandfather’s parents it may have been more genuine belief, especially with his mother (who apparently believed in final victory until near the end in 1945).
    How culpable they became beyond that, I can’t know for sure. Before the pandemic I made some attempts at requests from archives for information. Essentially it only confirmed what I had already known. I wrote to the relevant archive asking whether there was a de-Nazification file for my grandfather’s parents, and they told me there wasn’t one, they were classified as Mitläufer (low-ranking or nominal party members who joined from 1937 onwards) and amnestied by the French occupation authorities in 1948. Maybe there is something in collective files. I may at some point try to see if I can find out more, but obviously there may be a lot the surviving documents can’t tell you.

    • Thanks: Yahya
  320. @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.
     
    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know). Maybe they have a point: most of Hitler supporters of that period are dead, among the few survivors many are senile.

    However, some things should be remembered. Germany was in Ukraine twice in the twentieth century. The final result was equally disastrous for Germany both times. Germany is in Ukraine now, although not as an independent actor, just playing second fiddle to its overlords. But the overlords are far away and protected (they think) by nukes. So, by their logic, either they win (which would yield nothing for Germany), or they lose. Then the pawns will suffer while the overlords sit it out. So, it’s a lose-lose situation for Germany. Yet it willingly walked into this trap. As German thinker Hegel aptly said, “we learn from history that we do not learn from history”.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yahya, @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know).

    I agree. Germans haven’t sufficiently come to terms with their grandparents’ mistakes and atoned for their sins. After paying mightily for supporting Nazi Germany in 1933 they refuse to learn their lesson and continue to support Nazi Ukraine in 2022. The obvious solution for Germans is to stop their support for the Fourth Reich in Ukraine and instead arm the heroic Russian soldiers with bombers and artillery in their quest to turn Ukraine into rubble. That would redeem Germany forever in the eye of the Lord and perhaps give them a chance to recover their lost pride and self-confidence.

    • Agree: sudden death
    • Troll: Che Guava
  321. @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.
     
    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know). Maybe they have a point: most of Hitler supporters of that period are dead, among the few survivors many are senile.

    However, some things should be remembered. Germany was in Ukraine twice in the twentieth century. The final result was equally disastrous for Germany both times. Germany is in Ukraine now, although not as an independent actor, just playing second fiddle to its overlords. But the overlords are far away and protected (they think) by nukes. So, by their logic, either they win (which would yield nothing for Germany), or they lose. Then the pawns will suffer while the overlords sit it out. So, it’s a lose-lose situation for Germany. Yet it willingly walked into this trap. As German thinker Hegel aptly said, “we learn from history that we do not learn from history”.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yahya, @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    PS: the above comment isn’t directed at you personally; I appreciate your comments and enjoy reading them frequently. I’m just mocking the general attitude pro-Russian commentors have. My sympathies rest with Ukraine on this issue (not that it matters) and you’re not going to convince me it’s because i’ve been lied to by the media or am just following the crowd. In the Arab world people are more sympathetic to Russia than Ukraine.

  322. German_reader says:
    @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.
     
    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know). Maybe they have a point: most of Hitler supporters of that period are dead, among the few survivors many are senile.

    However, some things should be remembered. Germany was in Ukraine twice in the twentieth century. The final result was equally disastrous for Germany both times. Germany is in Ukraine now, although not as an independent actor, just playing second fiddle to its overlords. But the overlords are far away and protected (they think) by nukes. So, by their logic, either they win (which would yield nothing for Germany), or they lose. Then the pawns will suffer while the overlords sit it out. So, it’s a lose-lose situation for Germany. Yet it willingly walked into this trap. As German thinker Hegel aptly said, “we learn from history that we do not learn from history”.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yahya, @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Yet it willingly walked into this trap.

    The alternatives were limited. Merkel (much as I hate her in general) tried to broker a compromise, but as it turned out, Germany didn’t have the power and influence to enforce it against opposition. Of course much of the German political class is also incompetent and/or compromised by transatlantic relationships, but even if that were different, the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.
    On top of that, Putin then decided to go for brute force in a way that made everyone who had argued for working towards a rapprochement with Russia look like an idiot or a paid influence agent. Yes, I get it, there probably was a real sense of having been betrayed by Germany and France over the Minsk agreements, maybe even justified to some extent, but still, Russia’s actions since February couldn’t but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage. There was also intense pressure on Germany with all those “Molotov-Ribbentropp 2.0” accusations, even a more cautious government with less idiotic ministers couldn’t have resisted involvement in Ukraine. So maybe you should for once consider what Russia has contributed to the current state of affairs.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader

    Some of your points are valid, others are not. Just two examples.


    Russia’s actions since February couldn’t but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage.
     
    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen. By about 12 years of age I got a bit wiser.

    the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.
     
    Now, this is disingenuous. If a puny Nicaragua is not afraid to defy the empire, a heavyweight like Germany surely could. But didn’t. Soviet propaganda often claimed that a man himself creates his fortune. I am not sure about that, but present-day Germany clearly shows that a country itself creates its misfortune. Discussing this is now pointless, because it can no longer be changed. As Russians put it, “the train has already left the station”. People and counties make their choices, and then have to live with the consequences, whether they like it or not.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Barbarossa

  323. @Mikel
    @A123


    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional “news” media fabrications.
     
    In a deep sense Trump is right that the 2020 election was rigged. All the main purveyors of information colluded in favor of one candidate and lied as required to make him win, as we're seeing with the Twitter Files. It was fraud in plain sight, as Tucker warned at the time. We used to criticize authoritarian regimes for this very practice and some liberals still have the nerve to continue doing it. As for fraud at the polling stations, all legal provisions were taken. Courts, including the Supreme Court, reviewed the complaints, so did the state legislatures and there were even vote recounts organized by those still unconvinced. No result-altering evidence was found by any of them. Trump's idea that the Constitution should be suspended is as moronic as his idea that he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.

    Unfortunately, Trump did manage to build a cult of diehard followers who continue to believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance. The result will obviously be that conservatives and others with sane views on topics like the border and woke lunacy will lose for the 4th straight time. Things can get so bad that I'm not sure how much those topics will matter in 2028 but you'll surely be among the ones still defending a Trump-28 ticket while whining that the '24 elections (or primaries) were rigged again.

    "Leadership is about setting the vision and then producing results, and so our actions are really what matters." DeSantis

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123, @A123

    2020 elections were rigged in many ways and in most cases the bodies that reviewed the complaints consisted of supporters of the riggers. But all of that is now proverbial “the snows of yesteryear”. The objective in 2024 should be to save whatever is still salvageable in the US.

    I agree that Trump is inconsistent with that objective. First, the leaders should be wise, but still vigorous, which means 40-60 years age window. Second, Trump’s talk turned out to be mostly empty. The percentage of blunders he made with his appointments suggests that there is no hope for his presidency. His only redeeming quality is that everyone deserving the noose in the political establishment hates him.

    And that’s where “true believer” Trumpists can spoil everything. Nominating Trump would most certainly hand the victory to whatever woke nonentity the Dems nominate. Another four years of that would put the US beyond salvage (optimistically assuming that it is still salvageable now).

    I am not so sure about DeSantis. Yes, in many ways Florida appeared an island of sanity in a raging madhouse. But can he actually wrestle power from those who put a demented half-corpse into the White House? I am not sure.

    If I decide to vote in 2024, I will certainly vote against every Dem on the ballot. Question is, even if every sensible person does that, would it actually save the country? I don’t know the answer.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN


    in most cases the bodies that reviewed the complaints consisted of supporters of the riggers
     
    Were these supporters of the riggers: Supreme Court; Vice President; governors, secretaries of states and state legislators of Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan?

    Ultimately, the decision lied with the State Legislatures and no Republican State Legislature failed to certify the results. All of them heard and questioned Trump's lawyers in very lengthy sessions with plenty of testimonies (some of which I watched) but they failed to convince any of them. The constitutional provisions were held and the results were certified by the bodies in charge.

    Saying that the malicious Democratic riggers committing fraud in Detroit or Phoenix were in cahoots with Republican governors and legislators is lazy.

    I am not so sure about DeSantis.
     
    Neither am I. But he doesn't say demented things and has a proven track record of taking concrete anti-Establishment actions, for which he has been rewarded with a big electoral success in Florida. This is much more than what Trump can offer.

    If I decide to vote in 2024, I will certainly vote against every Dem on the ballot.
     
    I'm not even sure about that. They may make me vote for Trump (and lose) but Trump was actually so bad that my vote may depend on what the situation with Russia is in 2024. If it continues to be as dangerous as it is now, I may need to forget about some crucial issues and vote for security first. Quite frankly, I prefer to have Sullivan and Blinken in charge of relations with Russia than Trump appointees like McMaster or Bolton.
  324. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    That sounds like some of Anglin's style idiocy. That stuff is as just about as cracked as any stupidification from the Woke left. It's really from the same line of reasoning in that it rejects any natural form of relations between the sexes.

    Liberalism is really demeaning to women and men both because it destroys their unique and worthy attributes and roles. I make no bones about telling my wife that what she does all day with the kids is actually more important than what I do with my day working. My income makes that possible and there are plenty of other contributions I make too in the family, but her influence is going to have the most direct persistent influence.

    My understanding is that cow slaughter is blasphemy to Sikhs in part because of the mother role that the cow plays as sustainer and life giver to the wider community. The cow embodies an aspect of the Divine Feminine, just as the Sikh male and his weapons embodies important aspects of the Divine Masculine. In a similar way the wife and mother properly embodies the Divine attributes, also as sustainer and life giver to the community. Liberalism itself is basically blasphemy to human relations in that it fundamentally destroys the modelling of Divine attributes in male and female.

    Any religious interpretation which is fundamentally misogynistic or anti-woman is misguided since it eliminates proper balance and interplay between the Divine attributes.

    Would it be possible for a Sikh to venerate the cow while scorning their wife or mother? It wouldn't make much sense to me. And so I don't see it "based" at all to denigrate women as a whole. It's however important to criticize the perversions of womanhood which exist without forgetting that this is not what it should be. For what it's worth, my wife is actually more vocally intolerant of most of her fellow American women than I am. For her you could say that it's a bit more personal.

    Feel free to dispute any of the above, but it seems to follow from my own religious understanding and of the rudiments I understand of Sikhism.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    No.

    The Guru’s found on the Edge of the Sword, the Tip of the Bullet, Powder Charge of Artillery.

    You’re overthinking it & Weapons are the Divine Feminine – How else are women won?

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  325. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm not calling for unilateral surrender, it's just important to understand the past realistically. If Red America had opposed the security state expansions under W. Bush tooth and nail, we could have plausibly avoided it entirely. It's a lot easier to head something off rather than topple an entrenched system.

    So, there is a certain irony to conservatives realizing that these systems have a downside only when they look down the barrel of the gun they built.

    A lot of Left wing people are being similarly played for fools right now to advance further consolidation of power. They'll figure it out in a few years when they are no longer needed.

    Besides, if I was giving up I wouldn't have 5 kids and be putting so much effort into their upbringing. However, if we are talking about the way out of this it has to focus on heading of indoctrination of our kids, while living a positive value system that has substance.

    Myopic focus on national politics often detracts from this. I don't know how many people in their 50's and 60's I talk to that are aghast at what their children believe in. However they largely outsourced parenting to schools and TV. You reap what you sow, and conservatives better start working that ground a lot harder if they want to take society back.

    There are plenty of good parents out there who have done a great job raising their kids to be happily counter-cultural, and I'm thankful for them. However, it's a only a minority. Until conservatives get it through their heads that they live in a wholly hostile society they are going to behave naively.

    People are starting to get it, but it's too late to avoid a sizable gap generation or two that will overwhelmingly passively tolerant of Woke messaging. This is going to be painful times for a while. Even if Trump or Desantis is elected in 2024 it's not going to change what's already baked into society.

    Replies: @A123

    it’s just important to understand the past realistically. If Red America had opposed the security state expansions under W. Bush tooth and nail, we could have plausibly avoided it entirely. It’s a lot easier to head something off rather than topple an entrenched system

    I concur.

    However under W, the Uniparty had a Corporate wing and and Progressive wing. Neither were going to stand up against security state expansion. I and many others thought “Homeland Security” was a mistake. However, both parties of the two party system wanted it.

    In what realistic way was your desired resistance supposed to act?

    Explain the actually achievable steps that could have been realistically successful against the joint DNC/GOP Establishment.
    ____

    Equally important is looking at the past of Trump’s 1st Term realistically.

    Trump faced:
        • Non-MAGA House
        • Non-MAGA Senate
        • Non-MAGA Judiciary
        • Non-MAGA Deep State

    The whiners who do not see Trump’s successes versus overwhelming odds are sucking the life out of a reform movement that will take multiple Presidents. Lying about Trump and demanding things that were not realistically achievable is “giving aide and comfort to the enemy”.

    A lot of Left wing people are being similarly played for fools right now to advance further consolidation of power.

    I concur.

    The Left has a huge list of self destructive causes — BLM, Antifa, pro-Pali anti-Semitism, Ukie Maximalism, Climate Change mythology, etc.

    Open borders, visa scams, illegal migration, etc. are the collective worst. A nation without a common culture is lost. America, Southern Europe, and Eastern Europe can head this off. When one looks at Germany, it really may be too late.

    outsourced parenting to schools and TV. You reap what you sow, and conservatives better start working that ground a lot harder if they want to take society back.

    it’s too late to avoid a sizable gap generation or two that will overwhelmingly passively tolerant of Woke messaging. This is going to be painful times for a while. Even if Trump or Desantis is elected in 2024 it’s not going to change what’s already baked into society.

    MAGA (both Trump & DeSantis) see the culture war issues. Look at the fights over school boards, firing of prosecutors who do not enforce the law, etc.

    I have said many times that the hole took decades to dig. And, it will take decades to fill back in. Bashing Trump for not achieving 40+ years of remediation in only 4 years is literally INSANE. Which is the realistic plan:

        • Blowing up MAGA by inciting a battle between Trump and DeSantis?
        • Running MAGA long term extending this duo out of over 12 years of Presidential politics?

    Anyone who thinks the first option is realistic is an SJW Globalist plant. A RINO run by DeSantis has no possible realistic upside.

    PEACE 😇

  326. @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    I think he mentioned before some (or one?) of his grandparents being Nazi party members.
     
    Let’s keep historic perspective. The Third Reich fell in 1945. That was 77 years ago. Most of its residents supported the regime. Most of their descendants prefer not to know this (or at least pretend that they don’t know). Maybe they have a point: most of Hitler supporters of that period are dead, among the few survivors many are senile.

    However, some things should be remembered. Germany was in Ukraine twice in the twentieth century. The final result was equally disastrous for Germany both times. Germany is in Ukraine now, although not as an independent actor, just playing second fiddle to its overlords. But the overlords are far away and protected (they think) by nukes. So, by their logic, either they win (which would yield nothing for Germany), or they lose. Then the pawns will suffer while the overlords sit it out. So, it’s a lose-lose situation for Germany. Yet it willingly walked into this trap. As German thinker Hegel aptly said, “we learn from history that we do not learn from history”.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yahya, @German_reader, @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Third Reich fell in 1945.

    The generals and admirals surrendered unconditionally. The party never surrendered. It moved to south Argentina with a satellite in the United States space program.

    If you examine the recent history of the world unprejudiced their ongoing influence is obvious.

    There are a number of errors in this but it is not a bad treatment:

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/6101647-nazi-international

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    The generals and admirals surrendered unconditionally. The party never surrendered.
     
    That is a valid point. The corollary is that it still makes perfect sense to fight against this party in all its manifestations.
  327. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    Yet it willingly walked into this trap.
     
    The alternatives were limited. Merkel (much as I hate her in general) tried to broker a compromise, but as it turned out, Germany didn't have the power and influence to enforce it against opposition. Of course much of the German political class is also incompetent and/or compromised by transatlantic relationships, but even if that were different, the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.
    On top of that, Putin then decided to go for brute force in a way that made everyone who had argued for working towards a rapprochement with Russia look like an idiot or a paid influence agent. Yes, I get it, there probably was a real sense of having been betrayed by Germany and France over the Minsk agreements, maybe even justified to some extent, but still, Russia's actions since February couldn't but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage. There was also intense pressure on Germany with all those "Molotov-Ribbentropp 2.0" accusations, even a more cautious government with less idiotic ministers couldn't have resisted involvement in Ukraine. So maybe you should for once consider what Russia has contributed to the current state of affairs.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Some of your points are valid, others are not. Just two examples.

    Russia’s actions since February couldn’t but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage.

    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen. By about 12 years of age I got a bit wiser.

    the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.

    Now, this is disingenuous. If a puny Nicaragua is not afraid to defy the empire, a heavyweight like Germany surely could. But didn’t. Soviet propaganda often claimed that a man himself creates his fortune. I am not sure about that, but present-day Germany clearly shows that a country itself creates its misfortune. Discussing this is now pointless, because it can no longer be changed. As Russians put it, “the train has already left the station”. People and counties make their choices, and then have to live with the consequences, whether they like it or not.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen.
     
    You may complain about it as much as you want (and yes, to some extent it may of course be hypocritical and "unfair", given how civilian casualties through Ukrainian shelling in Donbass, especially in 2014/15, were widely ignored, also the numerous wars of choice by Western states in Yugoslavia, Iraq etc.), but the kind of operation Russia has been waging since February was bound to create lots of very ugly incidents that would do extreme damage to Russia's image and make any attempt at diplomacy much harder. It may not have been what Putin intended, he's a Soviet boomer after all, and in his hubris he probably thought it would be a quick operation like Czechoslovakia in 1968, or maybe Hungary in 1956 at worst, but he took the risk, he miscalculated, and now we've got a disastrous war of a kind not seen in Europe since WW2. How can you expect people in Europe not to be appalled at this, all the more so when it's hard or even impossible to make the case that Putin had no other choice, except by applying the sort of twisted preemptive war logic used for Iraq in 2003, and rejected back then by many people as well? I'm a pretty cold person, and I find much to dislike both about Ukraine's leadership and about the Westerners who have whipped themselves up into a self-righteous war frenzy, but even I am not entirely unaffected when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who've lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles. The effect on most normal people (whose understanding of the conflict is also limited to what they read and see in a somewhat selective media environment) couldn't be but catastrophical for Russia's image.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Barbarossa
    @AnonfromTN


    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen
     
    Well, those baby chicks have to come from somewhere! I'm not sure what it means geo-politically, maybe that Putin's virile phalanx is impregnating Ukraine?! Yeesh, perhaps a propaganda bridge too far!
  328. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN


    The Third Reich fell in 1945.
     
    The generals and admirals surrendered unconditionally. The party never surrendered. It moved to south Argentina with a satellite in the United States space program.

    If you examine the recent history of the world unprejudiced their ongoing influence is obvious.

    There are a number of errors in this but it is not a bad treatment:

    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/6101647-nazi-international

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The generals and admirals surrendered unconditionally. The party never surrendered.

    That is a valid point. The corollary is that it still makes perfect sense to fight against this party in all its manifestations.

  329. German_reader says:
    @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader

    Some of your points are valid, others are not. Just two examples.


    Russia’s actions since February couldn’t but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage.
     
    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen. By about 12 years of age I got a bit wiser.

    the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.
     
    Now, this is disingenuous. If a puny Nicaragua is not afraid to defy the empire, a heavyweight like Germany surely could. But didn’t. Soviet propaganda often claimed that a man himself creates his fortune. I am not sure about that, but present-day Germany clearly shows that a country itself creates its misfortune. Discussing this is now pointless, because it can no longer be changed. As Russians put it, “the train has already left the station”. People and counties make their choices, and then have to live with the consequences, whether they like it or not.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Barbarossa

    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen.

    You may complain about it as much as you want (and yes, to some extent it may of course be hypocritical and “unfair”, given how civilian casualties through Ukrainian shelling in Donbass, especially in 2014/15, were widely ignored, also the numerous wars of choice by Western states in Yugoslavia, Iraq etc.), but the kind of operation Russia has been waging since February was bound to create lots of very ugly incidents that would do extreme damage to Russia’s image and make any attempt at diplomacy much harder. It may not have been what Putin intended, he’s a Soviet boomer after all, and in his hubris he probably thought it would be a quick operation like Czechoslovakia in 1968, or maybe Hungary in 1956 at worst, but he took the risk, he miscalculated, and now we’ve got a disastrous war of a kind not seen in Europe since WW2. How can you expect people in Europe not to be appalled at this, all the more so when it’s hard or even impossible to make the case that Putin had no other choice, except by applying the sort of twisted preemptive war logic used for Iraq in 2003, and rejected back then by many people as well? I’m a pretty cold person, and I find much to dislike both about Ukraine’s leadership and about the Westerners who have whipped themselves up into a self-righteous war frenzy, but even I am not entirely unaffected when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who’ve lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles. The effect on most normal people (whose understanding of the conflict is also limited to what they read and see in a somewhat selective media environment) couldn’t be but catastrophical for Russia’s image.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who’ve lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles
     
    Can you vouch that these picture show what they claim to show? Ukrainian shelling killed and maimed >500 children in Donbass since 2014. And thousands of adults. The pictures are all over the internet. European MSM, wholly owned by we know who, were caught many times showing footage of the results of Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk and claiming that these are the results of Russian shelling of Kiev.

    couldn’t be but catastrophical for Russia’s image.
     
    Now we come to the crucial point. What Europe achieved this year is that the majority of Russians (not to mention the people in Donbass who felt that way for some years because of obvious duplicity of OSCE) don’t give a rat’s ass about Russia’s image in Europe. They simply wrote Europe off. I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe, or to any other country supporting Kiev regime, making sure that I don’t contribute a penny to their economy. I even flew to Russia via Turkey bypassing Europe, rather than choosing another route that involved landing in Europe, so that no European airport gets any of my money.

    Replies: @German_reader, @yurivku

  330. @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy.
     
    No doubt about it. I think there's a 143IQ figure floating about in the internet. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Whatever the real figure is, he is certainly a standard deviation above most US presidents from the modern period. American voters, or "the baboonery" as Mencken would call them, have a habit of electing intellectual mediocrities like John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and and Donald Trump because they don't intimidate them. Only Barack Obama imo comes close to Nixon in raw intellectual power, though he lacks the latter's judgement and hard-headed realism.

    Carter's nuclear engineering degree would indicate he too was bright in an IQ sense, but as Admiral Rickover once taunted him for his mediocre grades and university ranking "why not the best?" (Lee Kuan Yew also had a fairly negative opinion of Carter's capabilities, he was baffled when the president would pedantically focus on minute details and ignore more important concerns during their bilateral meetings. Carter was once criticized by his aide for spending time deciding who can use the White House tennis court. Points to a lack of common sense.)

    I think Nixon's critical strength was his sense of pragmatism. Some would criticize him as lacking in principles, but in my view principle in politics merely indicates a certain close-mindedness and proneness to ideology-induced errors of judgement. Being a pragmatist means having a good sense of the possible. A pragmatist is superior to an ideologue. All of the greatest leaders from Richelieu to Lincoln to Stolypin to Tito to Bismarck tended to share this common trait with Nixon. Pragmatism is closely associated with a willingness to adopt good ideas wherever they come from; so even though Nixon was a Republican he would hire a Democrat like Daniel P. Moynihan who was supremely well-read and intelligent and could be useful in advising him.

    Conversely his greatest weakness was a lack of personal integrity, which should be separated from a lack of political principle. I don't think Nixon was an evil character nor an irredeemable crook or bigot. From his tape conversations he seemed to hold universalist sentiments, for example in the video I linked to above he was discussing how knowledge of IQ could be used to improve social policy and governance; even stated that blacks shouldn't be discouraged as they have other qualities to be proud. OTOH, he was also admirably realistic about the limitations of social policy in addressing African-American issues.

    But definitely his dishonesty ended up being the sword that felled him in during the Watergate debacle. It's not much known, but Nixon didn't actually order the burglary itself; he merely covered and lied about it after he found out. Still, these sort of dirty tactics were used by both political parties at the time; Nixon merely had the misfortune of being caught. Foreign leaders at the time were shocked that such small potatoes could cause a US President to resign; though imo one positive American quality is/was this scrupulous punishing of even minor infractions from their politicians (though this seems to have changed with Trump).

    What I admired most about Nixon was his good judgement in making cabinet selections. Choosing subordinates is one of the key functions of a manager/leader; a leader falls or succeeds on the choices he and his underlings make; and Nixon imo made some excellent choices in Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, John Connally, H.W. Bush, George Romney and Dan P. Moynihan. Not so much perhaps the advisors who let him down on Watergate. But say what you will about them, these were not lightweights like the mediocrities that filled Trump's or Obama's cabinets.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Barbarossa

    Obama was/is a moron.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @LondonBob

    I would say an upper middle wit. He's very canny, well packaged, and not really at all stupid but knows his part in the system to a tee and is more than willing to play it.

    , @AnonfromTN
    @LondonBob


    Obama was/is a moron.
     
    He did not strike me as a moron. He struck me as a piece of shit
  331. @sudden death
    @Yahya

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn't like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973. It pissed Arab coalition, with the forefronting Saudis, so much that they threw a giant hissy fit and began then unprecedented oil embargo because of this, but in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis and Arabs resumed supplies afer some time.

    Today we are having repeat with another oil/gas extractor RF, which is throwing hissy fit because West is not letting them to crush unwanted democratic neighbour state and so far there is quite fat chance the outcomes will be similar too.


    On October 19, 1973, immediately following President Nixon’s request for Congress to make available $2.2 billion in emergency aid to Israel for the conflict known as the Yom Kippur War, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) instituted an oil embargo on the United States (Reich 1995). The embargo ceased U.S. oil imports from participating OAPEC nations, and began a series of production cuts that altered the world price of oil. These cuts nearly quadrupled the price of oil from $2.90 a barrel before the embargo to $11.65 a barrel in January 1974. In March 1974, amid disagreements within OAPEC on how long to continue the punishment, the embargo was officially lifted. The higher oil prices, on the other hand, remained (Merrill 2007).

    As Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, explained in 1974, the “manipulation of oil prices and supplies by the oil-exporting countries came at a most inopportune time for the United States. In the middle of 1973, wholesale prices of industrial commodities were already rising at an annual rate of more than 10 per cent; our industrial plant was operating at virtually full capacity; and many major industrial materials were in extremely short supply” (Burns 1974). In addition to these cost pressures, the U.S. oil industry had a lack of excess production capacity, which meant it was difficult for the industry to bring more oil to market if needed (Alhajji 2005). Thus, when OAPEC cut oil production, prices had to rise because the American oil industry could not respond by increasing supply. Additionally, non-Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil sources were declining as a percentage of the world oil industry, and OPEC was therefore gaining a larger percentage of the world oil market. These market dynamics, matched with the effect of OPEC nations’ greater participation rights in the industry, allowed OPEC to wield a much larger influence over the price setting mechanism in the oil market since their formation in 1960.
     

    https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/oil-shock-of-1973-74

    Replies: @Yahya, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Mikel

    Nixon’s policies were disastrous, regardless of the merits of his own private musings which often contradicted them.

    Which democratic neighbour would this be, because it certainly isn’t the brutal Kiev regime being run out of the US State Department where the opposition parties are banned, the free press is shut down, males are forbidden from leaving the country, where soldiers can be shot by their commanders for disobeying orders, has been shelling residential areas of the Donbass for eight plus years, that tortures POWs and where public funds are freely looted and sent abroad?

  332. @Mikel
    @A123


    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional “news” media fabrications.
     
    In a deep sense Trump is right that the 2020 election was rigged. All the main purveyors of information colluded in favor of one candidate and lied as required to make him win, as we're seeing with the Twitter Files. It was fraud in plain sight, as Tucker warned at the time. We used to criticize authoritarian regimes for this very practice and some liberals still have the nerve to continue doing it. As for fraud at the polling stations, all legal provisions were taken. Courts, including the Supreme Court, reviewed the complaints, so did the state legislatures and there were even vote recounts organized by those still unconvinced. No result-altering evidence was found by any of them. Trump's idea that the Constitution should be suspended is as moronic as his idea that he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.

    Unfortunately, Trump did manage to build a cult of diehard followers who continue to believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance. The result will obviously be that conservatives and others with sane views on topics like the border and woke lunacy will lose for the 4th straight time. Things can get so bad that I'm not sure how much those topics will matter in 2028 but you'll surely be among the ones still defending a Trump-28 ticket while whining that the '24 elections (or primaries) were rigged again.

    "Leadership is about setting the vision and then producing results, and so our actions are really what matters." DeSantis

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123, @A123

    If you a trying to prove you are an unhinged #NeverTrump Cultist… Congratulations!

    No result-altering evidence was found by any of them.

    Why are you lying?

    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)

    Only #NeverTrump Cultists deny that Trump won in 2020.

    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended

    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.

    he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.

    Another #NeverTrump Cult lie.

    Why do you keep lying when you know there is no chance it will be believed?

    believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance.

    Trump will be 78 in 2024. Not-The-President Biden just reached 80. Why are you comingling their stats? Could it be mindless cultism on your part?

    Trump has already won twice. Winning a third time is achievable. Only #NeverTrump Cultists believe that winning is impossible.

    ___

    This is going to be hard for you, but do you grasp that there is only one 100% guaranteed way to prevent Trump running in 2028?

    Are you ready for it?

    Here it is…. Helping Trump win in 2024. Once he uses up his 2nd term, he will be involuntary elevated to termed out “Elder Statesman”. You can get everything you want by Trump winning.

    If your cult blocks Trump from receiving the office he won in 2020… what will be the result? More Trump!

    We all understand that cults are by, definition, less than entirely rational. However, yours is truly special. Every #NeverTrump action you envision results in more Trump for a longer period of time.
    ___

    Be realistic. If DeSantis goes MegaCorporation RINO to beat Trump in the primaries, how can he win the General Election after offending the MAGA base. The Fake Stream Media will turn on him, and DeSantis does not have the proven skills to win via social media.

    So the actual path that you realistically seek is:
        • DeSantis losing the Presidential election in 2024.
        • Trump running in the 2028 Primary.

    Unrealistic #NeverTrump Cult extremism will guarantee many more years of Trump.

    Your support, albeit unwitting, is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123


    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)
     
    Oh look, someone wrote an optical recognition program that apparently detected lots of double votes in Fulton so Trump won the 2020 elections LOL

    Contrary to what others have expressed, I do think that you are a real person but that you really believe what you type is a very different matter. Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

    Replies: @A123, @keypusher

  333. @AnonfromTN
    @Barbarossa


    I fully agree on Nixon.
     
    Nixon was arguably the most efficient US president in living memory. He was remarkably sane and pragmatic. His thaw with China was the greatest US geopolitical achievement in the last 50 years. Unfortunately for the US, this was lost due to idiotic attempts by recent morons to fight Russia and China at the same time.

    The probability that you might enjoy a beer with someone shouldn’t really factor into the qualifications as high level leader, but “likability” is now king.
     
    Absolutely. Ruling a country, especially a country like the US, is a rare skill that has nothing to do with likeability or whether you’d enjoy a beer in the company of that person. E.g., you wouldn’t trust a likeable guy with whom you’d be happy to have a beer to do heart or brain surgery on you, you’d want a skilled surgeon.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @LondonBob

    Nixon extended affirmative action and closed the gold window, a country’s strength is its people and its economy, geopolitical games matter not.

  334. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen.
     
    You may complain about it as much as you want (and yes, to some extent it may of course be hypocritical and "unfair", given how civilian casualties through Ukrainian shelling in Donbass, especially in 2014/15, were widely ignored, also the numerous wars of choice by Western states in Yugoslavia, Iraq etc.), but the kind of operation Russia has been waging since February was bound to create lots of very ugly incidents that would do extreme damage to Russia's image and make any attempt at diplomacy much harder. It may not have been what Putin intended, he's a Soviet boomer after all, and in his hubris he probably thought it would be a quick operation like Czechoslovakia in 1968, or maybe Hungary in 1956 at worst, but he took the risk, he miscalculated, and now we've got a disastrous war of a kind not seen in Europe since WW2. How can you expect people in Europe not to be appalled at this, all the more so when it's hard or even impossible to make the case that Putin had no other choice, except by applying the sort of twisted preemptive war logic used for Iraq in 2003, and rejected back then by many people as well? I'm a pretty cold person, and I find much to dislike both about Ukraine's leadership and about the Westerners who have whipped themselves up into a self-righteous war frenzy, but even I am not entirely unaffected when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who've lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles. The effect on most normal people (whose understanding of the conflict is also limited to what they read and see in a somewhat selective media environment) couldn't be but catastrophical for Russia's image.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who’ve lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles

    Can you vouch that these picture show what they claim to show? Ukrainian shelling killed and maimed >500 children in Donbass since 2014. And thousands of adults. The pictures are all over the internet. European MSM, wholly owned by we know who, were caught many times showing footage of the results of Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk and claiming that these are the results of Russian shelling of Kiev.

    couldn’t be but catastrophical for Russia’s image.

    Now we come to the crucial point. What Europe achieved this year is that the majority of Russians (not to mention the people in Donbass who felt that way for some years because of obvious duplicity of OSCE) don’t give a rat’s ass about Russia’s image in Europe. They simply wrote Europe off. I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe, or to any other country supporting Kiev regime, making sure that I don’t contribute a penny to their economy. I even flew to Russia via Turkey bypassing Europe, rather than choosing another route that involved landing in Europe, so that no European airport gets any of my money.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe
     
    You literally live in the US and, presuamably, pay taxes there, which are used to send weapons to Ukraine, so your boycott of Europe is rather silly.
    Anyway, not much point to this discussion, as I told you in a previous comment, I'm less than happy about this break of relations with Russia. I hope it won't last forever, but as long as the war in Ukraine is going on, there's not much hope in this regard.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @yurivku
    @AnonfromTN

    Glad to know you're still here and strugling for good. But it's useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots. I gave up reading here, but will confirm - we, Russians, now hate and despise the West. For EU it's mostly despising and for US mostly hateness. And it's now for centuries.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  335. German_reader says:
    @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who’ve lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles
     
    Can you vouch that these picture show what they claim to show? Ukrainian shelling killed and maimed >500 children in Donbass since 2014. And thousands of adults. The pictures are all over the internet. European MSM, wholly owned by we know who, were caught many times showing footage of the results of Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk and claiming that these are the results of Russian shelling of Kiev.

    couldn’t be but catastrophical for Russia’s image.
     
    Now we come to the crucial point. What Europe achieved this year is that the majority of Russians (not to mention the people in Donbass who felt that way for some years because of obvious duplicity of OSCE) don’t give a rat’s ass about Russia’s image in Europe. They simply wrote Europe off. I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe, or to any other country supporting Kiev regime, making sure that I don’t contribute a penny to their economy. I even flew to Russia via Turkey bypassing Europe, rather than choosing another route that involved landing in Europe, so that no European airport gets any of my money.

    Replies: @German_reader, @yurivku

    I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe

    You literally live in the US and, presuamably, pay taxes there, which are used to send weapons to Ukraine, so your boycott of Europe is rather silly.
    Anyway, not much point to this discussion, as I told you in a previous comment, I’m less than happy about this break of relations with Russia. I hope it won’t last forever, but as long as the war in Ukraine is going on, there’s not much hope in this regard.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    You literally live in the US and, presuamably, pay taxes there, which are used to send weapons to Ukraine, so your boycott of Europe is rather silly.
     
    Yes, I do pay taxes. But have you looked at the US budget? The deficit now exceeds the whole humongous Pentagon budget, which includes weapons and ammo to many disgusting regimes, not only that in Kiev. All of this is “funded” by the printing press, not taxes. Other countries do not have the luxury of creating money out of thin air.
  336. @Yahya
    @sudden death


    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn’t like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973.
     
    Well I'm on the record as saying i'm glad Israel won in their conflict with Arab states. Just because I don't like Israel and criticize their oppression of Palestinians doesn't mean I want Israelis to be genocided, which could very well have happened had Arabs won (I don't know, but rather not have taken the chance).

    I'd like to think my "praise" of Nixon was nuanced and balanced with criticism. Forgot to mention his meddling in Vietnamese peace talks during the transition was dishonorable and ties back to my comment about his lack of integrity being his key weakness.


    o much that they threw a giant hissy fit
     
    I don't appreciate your use of "hissy fit" to malign Saudi Arabia's quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves. If we wanted to play mudslinging games, I could use the same words German_Reader employs to describe Baltic states "concerns" with Russia's actions during the present conflict. But I won't.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yahya, @Yevardian

    I don’t appreciate your use of “hissy fit” to malign Saudi Arabia’s quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves.

    Such as funding Salafists across the region, exporting its disgruntled youth as terrorists, hacking up journalists or starving Yemen? Sorry, but could you tell me how the House of Saud ever acted in a ‘noble’ way, because I’m completely missing it. Saudi involvement in the 20th Century’s Arab-Israeli conflict was negligible and symbolic when they weren’t actively providing the Israelis with intelligence. The only Arab states that consistently opposed Israeli expansionism were Syria and Iraq, their fate has since been instructive to the others.

    Bizzarely, only the Iranian government has supported the Palestinians in any meaningful manner over the past few decades, despite its own population neither liking Arabs in general or Palestinians in particular much at all.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    Such as funding Salafists across the region, exporting its disgruntled youth as terrorists, hacking up journalists or starving Yemen? Sorry, but could you tell me how the House of Saud ever acted in a ‘noble’ way, because I’m completely missing it.
     
    It should have been obvious my comment was specifically referring to the subject sudden_death was describing as a “hissy fit”, that is the 1973 oil embargo. Sudden_death had no trouble understanding this as indicated by his reply to me. You could have grasped that as well had it not been for your tendency towards gawky unpleasantness and dislike for Saudi Arabia.

    Yes Iran has been supportive of Palestine since the Islamic Revolution.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  337. @German_reader
    @AnonfromTN


    I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe
     
    You literally live in the US and, presuamably, pay taxes there, which are used to send weapons to Ukraine, so your boycott of Europe is rather silly.
    Anyway, not much point to this discussion, as I told you in a previous comment, I'm less than happy about this break of relations with Russia. I hope it won't last forever, but as long as the war in Ukraine is going on, there's not much hope in this regard.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    You literally live in the US and, presuamably, pay taxes there, which are used to send weapons to Ukraine, so your boycott of Europe is rather silly.

    Yes, I do pay taxes. But have you looked at the US budget? The deficit now exceeds the whole humongous Pentagon budget, which includes weapons and ammo to many disgusting regimes, not only that in Kiev. All of this is “funded” by the printing press, not taxes. Other countries do not have the luxury of creating money out of thin air.

  338. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader

    Some of your points are valid, others are not. Just two examples.


    Russia’s actions since February couldn’t but generate a negative reaction and create a lot of moral outrage.
     
    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen. By about 12 years of age I got a bit wiser.

    the key decisions were always bound to be made outside of Germany.
     
    Now, this is disingenuous. If a puny Nicaragua is not afraid to defy the empire, a heavyweight like Germany surely could. But didn’t. Soviet propaganda often claimed that a man himself creates his fortune. I am not sure about that, but present-day Germany clearly shows that a country itself creates its misfortune. Discussing this is now pointless, because it can no longer be changed. As Russians put it, “the train has already left the station”. People and counties make their choices, and then have to live with the consequences, whether they like it or not.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Barbarossa

    When I was a small and stupid boy, I felt moral outrage at the rooster “trampling” a hen

    Well, those baby chicks have to come from somewhere! I’m not sure what it means geo-politically, maybe that Putin’s virile phalanx is impregnating Ukraine?! Yeesh, perhaps a propaganda bridge too far!

  339. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel

    2020 elections were rigged in many ways and in most cases the bodies that reviewed the complaints consisted of supporters of the riggers. But all of that is now proverbial “the snows of yesteryear”. The objective in 2024 should be to save whatever is still salvageable in the US.

    I agree that Trump is inconsistent with that objective. First, the leaders should be wise, but still vigorous, which means 40-60 years age window. Second, Trump’s talk turned out to be mostly empty. The percentage of blunders he made with his appointments suggests that there is no hope for his presidency. His only redeeming quality is that everyone deserving the noose in the political establishment hates him.

    And that’s where “true believer” Trumpists can spoil everything. Nominating Trump would most certainly hand the victory to whatever woke nonentity the Dems nominate. Another four years of that would put the US beyond salvage (optimistically assuming that it is still salvageable now).

    I am not so sure about DeSantis. Yes, in many ways Florida appeared an island of sanity in a raging madhouse. But can he actually wrestle power from those who put a demented half-corpse into the White House? I am not sure.

    If I decide to vote in 2024, I will certainly vote against every Dem on the ballot. Question is, even if every sensible person does that, would it actually save the country? I don’t know the answer.

    Replies: @Mikel

    in most cases the bodies that reviewed the complaints consisted of supporters of the riggers

    Were these supporters of the riggers: Supreme Court; Vice President; governors, secretaries of states and state legislators of Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan?

    Ultimately, the decision lied with the State Legislatures and no Republican State Legislature failed to certify the results. All of them heard and questioned Trump’s lawyers in very lengthy sessions with plenty of testimonies (some of which I watched) but they failed to convince any of them. The constitutional provisions were held and the results were certified by the bodies in charge.

    Saying that the malicious Democratic riggers committing fraud in Detroit or Phoenix were in cahoots with Republican governors and legislators is lazy.

    I am not so sure about DeSantis.

    Neither am I. But he doesn’t say demented things and has a proven track record of taking concrete anti-Establishment actions, for which he has been rewarded with a big electoral success in Florida. This is much more than what Trump can offer.

    If I decide to vote in 2024, I will certainly vote against every Dem on the ballot.

    I’m not even sure about that. They may make me vote for Trump (and lose) but Trump was actually so bad that my vote may depend on what the situation with Russia is in 2024. If it continues to be as dangerous as it is now, I may need to forget about some crucial issues and vote for security first. Quite frankly, I prefer to have Sullivan and Blinken in charge of relations with Russia than Trump appointees like McMaster or Bolton.

  340. @LondonBob
    @Yahya

    Obama was/is a moron.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @AnonfromTN

    I would say an upper middle wit. He’s very canny, well packaged, and not really at all stupid but knows his part in the system to a tee and is more than willing to play it.

  341. @A123
    @Mikel

    If you a trying to prove you are an unhinged #NeverTrump Cultist... Congratulations!


    No result-altering evidence was found by any of them.
     
    Why are you lying?

    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1T4aIgxGFw

    Only #NeverTrump Cultists deny that Trump won in 2020.

    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended
     
    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.

    he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.
     
    Another #NeverTrump Cult lie.

    Why do you keep lying when you know there is no chance it will be believed?

    believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance.
     
    Trump will be 78 in 2024. Not-The-President Biden just reached 80. Why are you comingling their stats? Could it be mindless cultism on your part?

    Trump has already won twice. Winning a third time is achievable. Only #NeverTrump Cultists believe that winning is impossible.

    ___

    This is going to be hard for you, but do you grasp that there is only one 100% guaranteed way to prevent Trump running in 2028?

    Are you ready for it?

    Here it is.... Helping Trump win in 2024. Once he uses up his 2nd term, he will be involuntary elevated to termed out "Elder Statesman". You can get everything you want by Trump winning.

    If your cult blocks Trump from receiving the office he won in 2020... what will be the result? More Trump!

    We all understand that cults are by, definition, less than entirely rational. However, yours is truly special. Every #NeverTrump action you envision results in more Trump for a longer period of time.
    ___

    Be realistic. If DeSantis goes MegaCorporation RINO to beat Trump in the primaries, how can he win the General Election after offending the MAGA base. The Fake Stream Media will turn on him, and DeSantis does not have the proven skills to win via social media.

    So the actual path that you realistically seek is:
        • DeSantis losing the Presidential election in 2024.
        • Trump running in the 2028 Primary.

    Unrealistic #NeverTrump Cult extremism will guarantee many more years of Trump.

    Your support, albeit unwitting, is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)

    Oh look, someone wrote an optical recognition program that apparently detected lots of double votes in Fulton so Trump won the 2020 elections LOL

    Contrary to what others have expressed, I do think that you are a real person but that you really believe what you type is a very different matter. Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel

    Oh look. The #NeverTrump cultist denies factual evidence again. How could this happen other than ballots being counted multiple times?

    Everyone sees through your charade and realizes that you are a passionate #Bidenista. Your subterfuge is clumsy and incompetent.

    =================
    You keep lying!
    We keep laughing!
    =================


    Please, explain your grand #NeverTrump strategy.

    • How will DeSantis run as a RINO against Trump?
    • If DeSantis obtains the nomination, how can he win after destroying his reputation with the MAGA base?

    The plan can only lead to 4 more years of Not-The-President Biden. Thus, your true motivation lies exposed.

    PEACE 😇

    , @keypusher
    @Mikel


    Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

     

    I regret to inform you that @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters. As their numbers dwindle his intellectual pre-eminence over them will only increase.

    Replies: @Mikel

  342. Would watch that six-part Netflix documentary on Harry and Meghan, if it was about them being enthroned as the monarchs of some English-speaking part of Africa, and needing to deal with the local travails, as they sought to facilitate resource extraction.

    It need not be a whole country. IMO, they would bring a lot of tourists to that floating slum in Lagos.

  343. @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There is little doubt that he was a brilliant guy.
     
    No doubt about it. I think there's a 143IQ figure floating about in the internet. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Whatever the real figure is, he is certainly a standard deviation above most US presidents from the modern period. American voters, or "the baboonery" as Mencken would call them, have a habit of electing intellectual mediocrities like John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and and Donald Trump because they don't intimidate them. Only Barack Obama imo comes close to Nixon in raw intellectual power, though he lacks the latter's judgement and hard-headed realism.

    Carter's nuclear engineering degree would indicate he too was bright in an IQ sense, but as Admiral Rickover once taunted him for his mediocre grades and university ranking "why not the best?" (Lee Kuan Yew also had a fairly negative opinion of Carter's capabilities, he was baffled when the president would pedantically focus on minute details and ignore more important concerns during their bilateral meetings. Carter was once criticized by his aide for spending time deciding who can use the White House tennis court. Points to a lack of common sense.)

    I think Nixon's critical strength was his sense of pragmatism. Some would criticize him as lacking in principles, but in my view principle in politics merely indicates a certain close-mindedness and proneness to ideology-induced errors of judgement. Being a pragmatist means having a good sense of the possible. A pragmatist is superior to an ideologue. All of the greatest leaders from Richelieu to Lincoln to Stolypin to Tito to Bismarck tended to share this common trait with Nixon. Pragmatism is closely associated with a willingness to adopt good ideas wherever they come from; so even though Nixon was a Republican he would hire a Democrat like Daniel P. Moynihan who was supremely well-read and intelligent and could be useful in advising him.

    Conversely his greatest weakness was a lack of personal integrity, which should be separated from a lack of political principle. I don't think Nixon was an evil character nor an irredeemable crook or bigot. From his tape conversations he seemed to hold universalist sentiments, for example in the video I linked to above he was discussing how knowledge of IQ could be used to improve social policy and governance; even stated that blacks shouldn't be discouraged as they have other qualities to be proud. OTOH, he was also admirably realistic about the limitations of social policy in addressing African-American issues.

    But definitely his dishonesty ended up being the sword that felled him in during the Watergate debacle. It's not much known, but Nixon didn't actually order the burglary itself; he merely covered and lied about it after he found out. Still, these sort of dirty tactics were used by both political parties at the time; Nixon merely had the misfortune of being caught. Foreign leaders at the time were shocked that such small potatoes could cause a US President to resign; though imo one positive American quality is/was this scrupulous punishing of even minor infractions from their politicians (though this seems to have changed with Trump).

    What I admired most about Nixon was his good judgement in making cabinet selections. Choosing subordinates is one of the key functions of a manager/leader; a leader falls or succeeds on the choices he and his underlings make; and Nixon imo made some excellent choices in Henry Kissinger, George Schultz, John Connally, H.W. Bush, George Romney and Dan P. Moynihan. Not so much perhaps the advisors who let him down on Watergate. But say what you will about them, these were not lightweights like the mediocrities that filled Trump's or Obama's cabinets.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Barbarossa

    From last thread…Thanks again for the music recommendations. If the feeling strikes you to post more, they will of course be appreciated. With piano you are probably far ahead of me in musical sophistication. I only play drums, mostly drum set with some hand drums too. I have no musical theory but I know what I like and have pretty wide ranging tastes.

    As far as syncretic Western/ ME tinged music goes I’ve always thought that Alan Hovhaness struck a pretty fair balance, as I’ve mentioned before here, I’ve enjoyed his body of work. Hovhaness was Armenian, which along with the Azeris you specifically mentioned. Why do you think it is that these two groups pull it off when people like the Turks tend to fail? Is it something to do with the musical tradition?

    As far as being Melkite goes it’s a bit involved, but I was raised Roman Catholic and when I was about 15 or so my Dad decided to take my brother and I to a variety of Orthodox/ Eastern Rite churches so that we wouldn’t be ignorant of them like most RCs. I actually like this Melkite Church because of how genuine and friendly the people are which was quite a change from the “worship and dash” Roman churches that I was used to. We started to go there primarily until I left the house.

    I was involved with a very small Celtic Christian group down where I live, which is rather a fraught term with a lot of potential New Age baggage, but this actually had legitimacy. It was great in a lot of ways and still represents my way thinking. The man who headed it was probably one of the best men I have ever met but when he died the group struggled to find it’s way. We were left a bit on our own, which wouldn’t have been that big a deal if it had only been myself, but having kids to think of we felt a need for a more communal aspect to our faith.

    The Eastern theology is actually quite compatible with the Celtic compared to Roman theology and it is quite possible that Coptic monks played a role in the spiritual formation of the Celtic Church.

    https://britishorthodox.org/miscellaneous/on-the-trail-of-seven-coptic-monks-in-ireland/

    Personally, I have a fair suspicion of organized religion in general and while I have a certain respect for the Roman Church, have issues with it. I have too many aesthetic and theological quibbles with most Evangelical Christians to make that a viable option and so the Melkite Church of my younger days was an acceptable choice, especially since my parents are still involved.

    As an example on Evangelicals I was at a local gathering and the conversation turned to this book, which has some exhaustingly complicated “scientific” explanations of Noah’s flood et. al

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3963705-in-the-beginning?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=gK9U1DNdY7&rank=4

    with the conversation also going here…

    https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/ebooklet/the-throne-of-britain/appendix-13-the-nobility-also-jewish

    The discussion made my head hurt. A nice critique of the first book is here and makes an amusing read.

    http://paleo.cc/ce/wbrown.htm

    Suffice it to say that I can’t deal with that sort of thing with great frequency!

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Barbarossa

    Thanks for the interesting comment.


    it is quite possible that Coptic monks played a role in the spiritual formation of the Celtic Church.

     

    I've heard this before in Gerard Russell's Heirs to Forgotten Kingdoms, apparently an eighth-century Irish book of martyrs refers to “the seven holy Egyptian monks who lie in Disert Ulaidh.” The Coptic monks who settled in Ireland at the time may have played some role in shaping the early Irish Church into a more monastic and austere direction.

    Why do you think it is that these two groups pull it off when people like the Turks tend to fail?
     
    The obvious explanation would be the Soviet influence on these two Caucasian nations. But there are likely other factors since other Post-Soviet/Caucasoid groups don't seem to have made much of an impression in the field. Perhaps Yevardian will enlighten us with another explanation.

    All i'll say is that Armenian contributions to classical music are impressive considering their population figures. Khachaturian and Hovhaness are two prominent examples; but there's a lot more obscure talented Armenian musicians such as this soprano, who had what has to be the best voice i've heard thus far:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1B4yKkHCm4&list=OLAK5uy_nJeD4EJLkWkI7rgwDXxv00PWdM6QJ6IbE&ab_channel=LusineZakaryan-Topic

    Russia of course is world-renowned for its classical music, so it's hardly a surprise that proximity to it and the cultural influence of the Soviet Union would be inducive towards developing a sophisticated national classical tradition. Egypt likewise benefited to a degree from Soviet musical influence in the 20th century. Egypt's top classical composer Aziz El-Shawan studied studied music theory under a Russian musician living in Cairo; was director of the Soviet Cultural Center in Cairo from 1952 up to 1967; then was invited by Khachaturian to study in Moscow after the latter had heard one of his compositions in a visit to Cairo. Khachaturian later performed his own rendition of El-Shawan's Abu Simbel Symphony:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4-A7HJJkUc&t=508s&ab_channel=RafikEmilArt

  344. @LondonBob
    @Yahya

    Obama was/is a moron.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @AnonfromTN

    Obama was/is a moron.

    He did not strike me as a moron. He struck me as a piece of shit

  345. Chinese global times puts two and two together: the aim of the US in Ukraine is to weaken Russia and Europe at the same time to benefit the US. The US does not want peace there: the longer the war, the more the US benefits. It’s not news in and of itself: sensible people understood this before. News is that Chinese Global Times puts it exactly as it is, without diplomatic subterfuges.
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202211/1278956.shtml
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202211/1280678.shtml

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    True but most won’t listen because western propaganda always makes sure to preface “communist party mouthpiece - Global Times”. You see it in any western news that references it. So most will never go there. There are certain tag lines that seem to go in automatically. That’s how you can usually tell which media is part of the international “Operation Mockingbird”. The same way they paint picture of Putin as an evil maniac…. So anytime they reference “Putin says” or “according to Putin” the average westerner automatically discounts anything he says because he already has been programmed in their mind to be a killer who is threatening to nuke the world. The psyops is brilliant. It’s devious - but brilliant.

    Another poster on her “Latw” said they don’t like Global Times because they lecture Europe. To me it seems they are trying to save Europe…. But “how dare those commies speak to us”

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

  346. @sudden death
    @Yahya

    Interesting to hear the Nixon praise from Arab muslim who doesn't like Israel at all, because Nixon at the time refused Arabs to let crush Israel completely after unsucesful start of Yom-Kippur war and ordered to do huge military aid flows in 1973. It pissed Arab coalition, with the forefronting Saudis, so much that they threw a giant hissy fit and began then unprecedented oil embargo because of this, but in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis and Arabs resumed supplies afer some time.

    Today we are having repeat with another oil/gas extractor RF, which is throwing hissy fit because West is not letting them to crush unwanted democratic neighbour state and so far there is quite fat chance the outcomes will be similar too.


    On October 19, 1973, immediately following President Nixon’s request for Congress to make available $2.2 billion in emergency aid to Israel for the conflict known as the Yom Kippur War, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) instituted an oil embargo on the United States (Reich 1995). The embargo ceased U.S. oil imports from participating OAPEC nations, and began a series of production cuts that altered the world price of oil. These cuts nearly quadrupled the price of oil from $2.90 a barrel before the embargo to $11.65 a barrel in January 1974. In March 1974, amid disagreements within OAPEC on how long to continue the punishment, the embargo was officially lifted. The higher oil prices, on the other hand, remained (Merrill 2007).

    As Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Federal Reserve at the time, explained in 1974, the “manipulation of oil prices and supplies by the oil-exporting countries came at a most inopportune time for the United States. In the middle of 1973, wholesale prices of industrial commodities were already rising at an annual rate of more than 10 per cent; our industrial plant was operating at virtually full capacity; and many major industrial materials were in extremely short supply” (Burns 1974). In addition to these cost pressures, the U.S. oil industry had a lack of excess production capacity, which meant it was difficult for the industry to bring more oil to market if needed (Alhajji 2005). Thus, when OAPEC cut oil production, prices had to rise because the American oil industry could not respond by increasing supply. Additionally, non-Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) oil sources were declining as a percentage of the world oil industry, and OPEC was therefore gaining a larger percentage of the world oil market. These market dynamics, matched with the effect of OPEC nations’ greater participation rights in the industry, allowed OPEC to wield a much larger influence over the price setting mechanism in the oil market since their formation in 1960.
     

    https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/oil-shock-of-1973-74

    Replies: @Yahya, @sudden death, @LondonBob, @Mikel

    in the end West adapted after huge initial economic shock and subsequent crisis

    I’m not sure that big parts of the West have still recovered from the stagflation that followed the oil embargo. The post-WWII era of full employment came to an end. Inflation was finally reined in (until recently) and the Anglosphere also recovered from the bane of unemployment in the late 80s-90s but parts of Continental Europe, especially in the South, have never seen full employment again.

  347. @Yevardian
    @Yahya


    I don’t appreciate your use of “hissy fit” to malign Saudi Arabia’s quite noble actions in support of other Arabs at a personal cost to themselves.
     
    Such as funding Salafists across the region, exporting its disgruntled youth as terrorists, hacking up journalists or starving Yemen? Sorry, but could you tell me how the House of Saud ever acted in a 'noble' way, because I'm completely missing it. Saudi involvement in the 20th Century's Arab-Israeli conflict was negligible and symbolic when they weren't actively providing the Israelis with intelligence. The only Arab states that consistently opposed Israeli expansionism were Syria and Iraq, their fate has since been instructive to the others.

    Bizzarely, only the Iranian government has supported the Palestinians in any meaningful manner over the past few decades, despite its own population neither liking Arabs in general or Palestinians in particular much at all.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Such as funding Salafists across the region, exporting its disgruntled youth as terrorists, hacking up journalists or starving Yemen? Sorry, but could you tell me how the House of Saud ever acted in a ‘noble’ way, because I’m completely missing it.

    It should have been obvious my comment was specifically referring to the subject sudden_death was describing as a “hissy fit”, that is the 1973 oil embargo. Sudden_death had no trouble understanding this as indicated by his reply to me. You could have grasped that as well had it not been for your tendency towards gawky unpleasantness and dislike for Saudi Arabia.

    Yes Iran has been supportive of Palestine since the Islamic Revolution.

    • Troll: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Iran has been supportive of Palestine
     
    It's not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It's like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.

    Qatar would be more ambiguous, because I think they give money for some normal infrastructure in the places like Gaza. Also perhaps Iran pays for some development costs in Southern Lebanon.

    Saudi Arabia seems to more fund Lebanon. They pay a lot of the kitsch redevelopment of central Beirut, which was constructed with almost Parisian way.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/22/1421931944570/4e271cf0-64c7-454b-be87-00e7f206fe42-2060x1373.jpeg


    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/22/beirut-lebanon-glitzy-downtown-redevelopment-gucci-prada

    They pay for the costs of Lebanon's army some years.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

  348. It took nearly a year, but AK is slowly making some sense again:

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @sudden death

    I notice Karlin now has a Morroccan flag in his profile...solidarity with fellow poc rioting in Belgium?
    The part with the long-range drones already seems to be happening:
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/06/world/russia-ukraine-war-news#explosions-rock-two-military-bases-in-russia-according-to-some-russian-media
    Also notable that Ukraine must have teams deep inside Russia to pull this off.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Matra

  349. @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    From last thread...Thanks again for the music recommendations. If the feeling strikes you to post more, they will of course be appreciated. With piano you are probably far ahead of me in musical sophistication. I only play drums, mostly drum set with some hand drums too. I have no musical theory but I know what I like and have pretty wide ranging tastes.

    As far as syncretic Western/ ME tinged music goes I've always thought that Alan Hovhaness struck a pretty fair balance, as I've mentioned before here, I've enjoyed his body of work. Hovhaness was Armenian, which along with the Azeris you specifically mentioned. Why do you think it is that these two groups pull it off when people like the Turks tend to fail? Is it something to do with the musical tradition?

    As far as being Melkite goes it's a bit involved, but I was raised Roman Catholic and when I was about 15 or so my Dad decided to take my brother and I to a variety of Orthodox/ Eastern Rite churches so that we wouldn't be ignorant of them like most RCs. I actually like this Melkite Church because of how genuine and friendly the people are which was quite a change from the "worship and dash" Roman churches that I was used to. We started to go there primarily until I left the house.

    I was involved with a very small Celtic Christian group down where I live, which is rather a fraught term with a lot of potential New Age baggage, but this actually had legitimacy. It was great in a lot of ways and still represents my way thinking. The man who headed it was probably one of the best men I have ever met but when he died the group struggled to find it's way. We were left a bit on our own, which wouldn't have been that big a deal if it had only been myself, but having kids to think of we felt a need for a more communal aspect to our faith.

    The Eastern theology is actually quite compatible with the Celtic compared to Roman theology and it is quite possible that Coptic monks played a role in the spiritual formation of the Celtic Church.

    https://britishorthodox.org/miscellaneous/on-the-trail-of-seven-coptic-monks-in-ireland/

    Personally, I have a fair suspicion of organized religion in general and while I have a certain respect for the Roman Church, have issues with it. I have too many aesthetic and theological quibbles with most Evangelical Christians to make that a viable option and so the Melkite Church of my younger days was an acceptable choice, especially since my parents are still involved.

    As an example on Evangelicals I was at a local gathering and the conversation turned to this book, which has some exhaustingly complicated "scientific" explanations of Noah's flood et. al

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3963705-in-the-beginning?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=gK9U1DNdY7&rank=4

    with the conversation also going here...

    https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/ebooklet/the-throne-of-britain/appendix-13-the-nobility-also-jewish

    The discussion made my head hurt. A nice critique of the first book is here and makes an amusing read.

    http://paleo.cc/ce/wbrown.htm

    Suffice it to say that I can't deal with that sort of thing with great frequency!

    Replies: @Yahya

    Thanks for the interesting comment.

    it is quite possible that Coptic monks played a role in the spiritual formation of the Celtic Church.

    I’ve heard this before in Gerard Russell’s Heirs to Forgotten Kingdoms, apparently an eighth-century Irish book of martyrs refers to “the seven holy Egyptian monks who lie in Disert Ulaidh.” The Coptic monks who settled in Ireland at the time may have played some role in shaping the early Irish Church into a more monastic and austere direction.

    Why do you think it is that these two groups pull it off when people like the Turks tend to fail?

    The obvious explanation would be the Soviet influence on these two Caucasian nations. But there are likely other factors since other Post-Soviet/Caucasoid groups don’t seem to have made much of an impression in the field. Perhaps Yevardian will enlighten us with another explanation.

    All i’ll say is that Armenian contributions to classical music are impressive considering their population figures. Khachaturian and Hovhaness are two prominent examples; but there’s a lot more obscure talented Armenian musicians such as this soprano, who had what has to be the best voice i’ve heard thus far:

    Russia of course is world-renowned for its classical music, so it’s hardly a surprise that proximity to it and the cultural influence of the Soviet Union would be inducive towards developing a sophisticated national classical tradition. Egypt likewise benefited to a degree from Soviet musical influence in the 20th century. Egypt’s top classical composer Aziz El-Shawan studied studied music theory under a Russian musician living in Cairo; was director of the Soviet Cultural Center in Cairo from 1952 up to 1967; then was invited by Khachaturian to study in Moscow after the latter had heard one of his compositions in a visit to Cairo. Khachaturian later performed his own rendition of El-Shawan’s Abu Simbel Symphony:

    • Troll: Che Guava
  350. @Yahya
    @Coconuts


    to go below current SK levels. It doesn’t seem implausible.
     
    I think the ideal is for TFR to stay around the 2 mark. Definitely don't want to be headed to the dystopian nightmare that prevails in China, South Korea etc. where people don't have any cousins because families only have one kid.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    In the past I think I always took for granted that it would stay at around two. I started paying attention to demographic trends a few years ago and especially after I read Eric Kaufmann’s book ‘Whiteshift’ (about 2018). I was reaching the point in life where most of my peers had had all the children they were likely to as well and you could see anecdotally that replacement level wasn’t being reached.

    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Coconuts


    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.
     
    I recall the odd feeling when I had spent a few months living in a major Northeast American city and thinking to myself “where are all the kids?” Subsequent visits to other cities reconfirmed this Children Of Men phenomenon of not encountering any children in any major city in the US. Once you recognize that fact, it creates a very eerie atmosphere in a dystopian sort of way. In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.

    I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British
     
    Apparently British students are now being taught American history in the classroom. In Razib Khan’s podcast episode Ed West mentioned his children took 2 courses on Harriet Tubman and were given pamphlets describing the “black experience” (no mention of Asians or other minorities, odd considering Asians are more predominant in Britain). He compared the situation to Romans abandoning their pagan Gods and switching to Israelite mythos. Obviously the Romans could be excused for switching faiths; it happens to everyone; but Britons voluntarily dedicating a portion of their scarce and important schooling curriculum to teaching American history seems kind of odd tbh.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader

  351. German_reader says:
    @sudden death
    It took nearly a year, but AK is slowly making some sense again:

    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1599959110744559616

    Replies: @German_reader

    I notice Karlin now has a Morroccan flag in his profile…solidarity with fellow poc rioting in Belgium?
    The part with the long-range drones already seems to be happening:
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/06/world/russia-ukraine-war-news#explosions-rock-two-military-bases-in-russia-according-to-some-russian-media
    Also notable that Ukraine must have teams deep inside Russia to pull this off.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @German_reader

    Ukraine has been using these Soviet-era drones sporadically since the beginning. It is trivial to have spies on the ground when both sides are effectively the same people--they look similar, share most of the same culture and speak the same language.

    Regarding AK, it is surprising that he seems to not understand what Russia is doing. Speaking poetically, they were forced to attack a country they love, so the war is not a normal war. Maybe he will understand once he has a family of his own. As far as making new drones, how well does that work if there is no power, water, food or material?

    Regarding vast supplies of Western ammunition, how many railroad bridges will Russia have to destroy to limit the influx to a trickle? Whatever the number, they can be destroyed in a day. They have not done this yet because those same bridges allow trains to bring in food and allow non-combatants to seek safety.

    , @Matra
    @German_reader

    He had a Senegal flag on Sunday, when they played England at the World Cup. Bitterness towards 'Westoids' I guess.

  352. @Barbarossa
    @Coconuts

    In reply to GR and yourself, I don't discount the possibility that the liberal establishment has miscalculated on mass immigration. The establishment has a supreme faith in it's ability that all things are fundamentally manageable. This led to a lot of the stupidity around Covid responses. Some things in this world cannot be infinitely managed.

    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I've said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it's current trajectory. Anything that undermines that seriously is okay with me. It doesn't mean that I will like a great many of the direct consequences of that, since it will continue to cause more societal breakdown and chaos.


    The recent trends in politics around BLM and historic colonialism suggest ethnic minorities are starting to assert themselves in the educational and cultural fields, maybe assisted by white progressives,
     
    I'm not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn't matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.

    What I'm thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society. If those groups refuse to integrate then they will start getting increasingly more overt pressure to do so.

    the development of overtly communal politics
     
    I think this plausible and is not a possibility that I'm opposed to since aligning politics more on the lines of direct and local material concerns is more reasonable than more prone to manipulation theoretical national politics.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I’ve said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it’s current trajectory.

    Some are saying that they are becoming aware of this and trying to ease off on the Wokeness and intersectionality as a result, but I think that the growth in these groups will be too rapid for them to be integrated into Western liberalism. They also stay in contact with significant cultural influences from outside Europe, which are likely to be more significant in the future. (Population of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India dwarfs that of the white British and is more youthful, same with the developing African diasporas).

    There is a good book by Patrick Deneen ‘Why Liberalism Failed’, this has some good arguments and predictions about where liberalism is going and why it won’t work longer term. Another one called ‘The Demon in Democracy’ by Ryszard Legutko adds some new angles and depth that is relevant for Europe. Legutko is a Polish politician and professor of political philosophy and was a dissident under Communism, he looks at similarities and differences between applied socialism and liberalism.

    Given these titles were written in the early-mid 2010s the predictions in them have proved surprisingly accurate.

    [MORE]

    I’m not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn’t matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.

    One of the quirky features of intersectionality is that ethnic minorities are not directly encouraged to accept liberalism, there is even a certain suspicion of it (as white and western). I suspect the grass roots pressure pushing for decolonisation of culture and education etc. is motivated by ethnocentrism and a desire to see it reflect their own ethnic group’s history and experience. I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British, I can imagine what a classroom today might be like where the majority are Pakistani or Bangladeshi background and still having to study the same authors.

    With these groups the issues go beyond skin colour, this is usually a secondary thing compared to the cultural and religious differences, different historical experiences etc.

    What I’m thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society.

    From what I have seen they like it, but their income levels don’t generally rise beyond the lower levels, so they don’t move beyond the consumerism of the remaining British working class (mostly following the less prosperous Northern version of the culture). At the same time these communities currently don’t have the same level of the social problems with drugs and broken families that the white working class does.

    I don’t know how long it would take to raise them to the level of the consumption patterns of the middle classes, if it was possible. I tend to see the middle classes as being both the biggest supporters of liberalism, and the most at risk from it.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Coconuts

    "Talking about the allegations that he was being supported from Pakistan, Amritpal Singh said, “We are asking for Maha-Punjab. Half of Punjab is in Pakistan."

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mNU9r4oNd04

    🙏⚔️

    Guess it's time to stop posting here.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    , @A123
    @Coconuts


    Some are saying that they are becoming aware of this and trying to ease off on the Wokeness and intersectionality as a result, but I think that the growth in these groups will be too rapid for them to be integrated into Western liberalism.
     
    It is a bit more complex. Modern SJW tenants hold that the ultimate evils are:

    • Christianity
    • Work Ethic
    • Merit
    • Heterosexuality
    • Strong Males
    • Whiteness

    The bottom of the Pyramid of Grievance is locked. As this excludes the most productive citizens, modern 'authoritarian liberalism' is doomed. The feeding frenzy for higher slots is already visible. For example, feminists versus transgender in sports.

    Migration simply hastens the process. The infamous "Karen" could hope for advancement in the Pyramid by wielding entitlement (instead of merit) and disdain for patriarchal churches. Migrants also get points in the SJW Pyramid. When a Karen cannot advance because of a migrant... Watchout...

    Imagine a Home Owners Association meeting with 10,000,000 participants. Disaster & Disorder loom.

    PEACE 😇

  353. @Mikel
    @A123


    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)
     
    Oh look, someone wrote an optical recognition program that apparently detected lots of double votes in Fulton so Trump won the 2020 elections LOL

    Contrary to what others have expressed, I do think that you are a real person but that you really believe what you type is a very different matter. Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

    Replies: @A123, @keypusher

    Oh look. The #NeverTrump cultist denies factual evidence again. How could this happen other than ballots being counted multiple times?

    Everyone sees through your charade and realizes that you are a passionate #Bidenista. Your subterfuge is clumsy and incompetent.

    =================
    You keep lying!
    We keep laughing!
    =================

    Please, explain your grand #NeverTrump strategy.

    • How will DeSantis run as a RINO against Trump?
    • If DeSantis obtains the nomination, how can he win after destroying his reputation with the MAGA base?

    The plan can only lead to 4 more years of Not-The-President Biden. Thus, your true motivation lies exposed.

    PEACE 😇

  354. @Coconuts
    @Yahya

    In the past I think I always took for granted that it would stay at around two. I started paying attention to demographic trends a few years ago and especially after I read Eric Kaufmann's book 'Whiteshift' (about 2018). I was reaching the point in life where most of my peers had had all the children they were likely to as well and you could see anecdotally that replacement level wasn't being reached.

    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.

    Replies: @Yahya

    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.

    I recall the odd feeling when I had spent a few months living in a major Northeast American city and thinking to myself “where are all the kids?” Subsequent visits to other cities reconfirmed this Children Of Men phenomenon of not encountering any children in any major city in the US. Once you recognize that fact, it creates a very eerie atmosphere in a dystopian sort of way. In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.

    I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British

    Apparently British students are now being taught American history in the classroom. In Razib Khan’s podcast episode Ed West mentioned his children took 2 courses on Harriet Tubman and were given pamphlets describing the “black experience” (no mention of Asians or other minorities, odd considering Asians are more predominant in Britain). He compared the situation to Romans abandoning their pagan Gods and switching to Israelite mythos. Obviously the Romans could be excused for switching faiths; it happens to everyone; but Britons voluntarily dedicating a portion of their scarce and important schooling curriculum to teaching American history seems kind of odd tbh.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya


    In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.
     
    I have plenty of children living around me. They are never seen outside without adult supervision except at one time and x-y coordinate. They are permitted to wait without adult supervision for the school bus M-F for a very few minutes before it picks them up in the morning.

    Probably an American psychiatrist would count my noticing this as evidence of child molester tendencies. Anyway if you want to kidnap a child around here without whacking the parent that is your only shot. When I was a child we had to be back inside when it got dark but other than that we were permitted to be total demons by comparison.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @German_reader
    @Yahya

    The trend can be observed in a less pronounced way even on the continent. I remember a few years ago I read something about a school in France being named after Rosa Parks and I thought to myself "Lol, if they really want to go there, they could at least have named it after Toussaint L'Ouverture" (or maybe the father of Alexandre Dumas, for something less controversial). Now I googled and there are apparently several Rosa Parks schools in France. There's also a Rosa Parks elementary school in Berlin.
    Britain is of course affected especially badly because of the lack of a language barrier and because it's geopolitically completely in thrall to the US. But in the end everybody in the Western sphere lives under the shadow of America's myths.

    Replies: @Yahya

  355. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    Most everything you write is oozing with unfounded praise and admiration for Russia?….
     
    Sorry to disappoint, but I am just scientifically comparing two systems: the RF and the US. Neither is perfect, both have numerous flaws. But in objective comparison today’s RF wins hands down.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    But in objective comparison today’s RF wins hands down.

    If you really feel this way, and your opinion is based on “scientific” research methods, then today more than even yesterday, I encourage you to return. I mean really, why would you not, if you really feel this way and aren’t just BSing us and yourself?:

    Take that college pension and run – Mother Russia awaits its true patriots, Prof Janissar. Don’t put off returning any longer. Breathe free again!

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack

    Don’t you think I am working on it?

    However, unlike some people, I cannot just get up and go. I take my responsibilities seriously. To close my lab responsibly I need to make sure that everyone who works for me gets suitable employment. I also need to make sure that every good undergrad who worked in my lab gets into grad/med school s/he wants. Both of these involve writing recommendation letters, which have greater impact on University letterhead. I also have responsibility to my field. I need to deposit with Addgene every plasmid made in my lab that my colleagues might find useful.

    More selfish thing involves transferring my money to Russia circumventing a ban imposed by a well-known demented individual. I found and used several ways, but these do not have the capacity I need. So, I am looking for other ways with greater capacity.

  356. @Mikel
    @A123


    Only Sheeple, like Mikel, revere the European WEF and its fictional “news” media fabrications.
     
    In a deep sense Trump is right that the 2020 election was rigged. All the main purveyors of information colluded in favor of one candidate and lied as required to make him win, as we're seeing with the Twitter Files. It was fraud in plain sight, as Tucker warned at the time. We used to criticize authoritarian regimes for this very practice and some liberals still have the nerve to continue doing it. As for fraud at the polling stations, all legal provisions were taken. Courts, including the Supreme Court, reviewed the complaints, so did the state legislatures and there were even vote recounts organized by those still unconvinced. No result-altering evidence was found by any of them. Trump's idea that the Constitution should be suspended is as moronic as his idea that he can declassify secret documents by just thinking about it.

    Unfortunately, Trump did manage to build a cult of diehard followers who continue to believe that an 80-year old person that makes that kind of statements can win in 2020 if we just give him one more chance. The result will obviously be that conservatives and others with sane views on topics like the border and woke lunacy will lose for the 4th straight time. Things can get so bad that I'm not sure how much those topics will matter in 2028 but you'll surely be among the ones still defending a Trump-28 ticket while whining that the '24 elections (or primaries) were rigged again.

    "Leadership is about setting the vision and then producing results, and so our actions are really what matters." DeSantis

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123, @A123

    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended

    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.
    ____

    Here is more information directly on this point (1)

    Trump has now issued a clarification of his earlier post on the same platform, his TruthSocial:

    “The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to ‘terminate’ the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is ‘MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,’ as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!”

    Again, whether Trump’s claim that the election was stolen is true or not is a separate issue; he didn’t call for an end to the Constitution. But put aside the usual Trumpian melodrama, and there’s a really interesting contention underneath.

    Presuming a situation (for the sake of argument) where the 2020 election was stolen from Trump — a position that does have evidence to support it — the current administration would be illegitimate and the United States would have ceased to be a Republic. In that case, the Constitution and other republican laws would not, in fact, help the American people, because they only work as protections under a system of government that would have ceased to exist. Perhaps, instead of falsely accusing Trump of wanting to end the Constitution, the media should instead take on the argument I just articulated.

    The truly controversial and bombshell thing Trump claimed was that we are no longer living in a Republic. That’s what the media — and the American people — should be debating.

    If you are serious, you will admit you were wrong and apologize.

    Cultists are incapable of admitting error. If you refuse to recant, you provide more objective evidence about your dishonest extremism.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/catherinesalgado/2022/12/05/trump-clarifies-statement-misrepresented-as-a-call-to-end-to-u-s-constitution-n1651031

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    Why do you continuously harass the "NeverTrumpists" that seem to flock at this blogsite? Why not take on somebody worthy of your stature and presence like Philip Geraldi? He seems to think that it's actually American Jewry (a group that you so vigorously defend) that will be responsible for pounding in the last nail into Trump's coffin? One big guy taking on another, eh?
    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Trump-and-Kanye-380x231.jpg

    Trump is Toast
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/trump-is-toast/

    , @songbird
    @A123

    I thought that Buchanan used the word "Trumpist" somewhat sympathetically.

    @Mr. Hack
    Something really rubs me the wrong way about that crossroads cartoon. Somehow, it doesn't seem real - like it is made by AI, or by someone who is not American, or else someone to whom real American traditions haven't been carried.

    Uncle Sam dragging the American flag in the dirt? Would an American really draw something like that? I remember being taught flag etiquette in elementary school, when we were given tiny flags. (This would probably be an odd experience for most Europeans, especially Germans.)

    Edit: Or is that supposed to be Biden? I guess that would make sense, as he is senile.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  357. What’s happened to our fearless AP? I know that he mentioned that he was quite busy a few weeks back, but even when he’s been on vacation, he’s always manages to inform us, and even to send in a few comments? And his erstwhile alter ego, Beckov? Could their dual disappearance be somehow related?

    Casualties of Cold War2, or just a case of the pre-holiday blues? 🙂

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack

    Let's hope they'll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  358. @Coconuts
    @Barbarossa


    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I’ve said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it’s current trajectory.
     
    Some are saying that they are becoming aware of this and trying to ease off on the Wokeness and intersectionality as a result, but I think that the growth in these groups will be too rapid for them to be integrated into Western liberalism. They also stay in contact with significant cultural influences from outside Europe, which are likely to be more significant in the future. (Population of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India dwarfs that of the white British and is more youthful, same with the developing African diasporas).

    There is a good book by Patrick Deneen 'Why Liberalism Failed', this has some good arguments and predictions about where liberalism is going and why it won't work longer term. Another one called 'The Demon in Democracy' by Ryszard Legutko adds some new angles and depth that is relevant for Europe. Legutko is a Polish politician and professor of political philosophy and was a dissident under Communism, he looks at similarities and differences between applied socialism and liberalism.

    Given these titles were written in the early-mid 2010s the predictions in them have proved surprisingly accurate.


    I’m not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn’t matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.
     
    One of the quirky features of intersectionality is that ethnic minorities are not directly encouraged to accept liberalism, there is even a certain suspicion of it (as white and western). I suspect the grass roots pressure pushing for decolonisation of culture and education etc. is motivated by ethnocentrism and a desire to see it reflect their own ethnic group's history and experience. I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British, I can imagine what a classroom today might be like where the majority are Pakistani or Bangladeshi background and still having to study the same authors.

    With these groups the issues go beyond skin colour, this is usually a secondary thing compared to the cultural and religious differences, different historical experiences etc.

    What I’m thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society.
     
    From what I have seen they like it, but their income levels don't generally rise beyond the lower levels, so they don't move beyond the consumerism of the remaining British working class (mostly following the less prosperous Northern version of the culture). At the same time these communities currently don't have the same level of the social problems with drugs and broken families that the white working class does.

    I don't know how long it would take to raise them to the level of the consumption patterns of the middle classes, if it was possible. I tend to see the middle classes as being both the biggest supporters of liberalism, and the most at risk from it.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123

    “Talking about the allegations that he was being supported from Pakistan, Amritpal Singh said, “We are asking for Maha-Punjab. Half of Punjab is in Pakistan.”

    🙏⚔️

    Guess it’s time to stop posting here.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  359. @Coconuts
    @Barbarossa


    Honestly, I actually hope immigration will be indigestible for the liberal West and that those groups will prove intractable. As I’ve said before, the future that I find most daunting is that of liberalism continuing it’s current trajectory.
     
    Some are saying that they are becoming aware of this and trying to ease off on the Wokeness and intersectionality as a result, but I think that the growth in these groups will be too rapid for them to be integrated into Western liberalism. They also stay in contact with significant cultural influences from outside Europe, which are likely to be more significant in the future. (Population of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India dwarfs that of the white British and is more youthful, same with the developing African diasporas).

    There is a good book by Patrick Deneen 'Why Liberalism Failed', this has some good arguments and predictions about where liberalism is going and why it won't work longer term. Another one called 'The Demon in Democracy' by Ryszard Legutko adds some new angles and depth that is relevant for Europe. Legutko is a Polish politician and professor of political philosophy and was a dissident under Communism, he looks at similarities and differences between applied socialism and liberalism.

    Given these titles were written in the early-mid 2010s the predictions in them have proved surprisingly accurate.


    I’m not talking about these people since they are just as representative of liberalism as white progressives. Skin color doesn’t matter to the progressives as long as their liberal values are represented and internalized.
     
    One of the quirky features of intersectionality is that ethnic minorities are not directly encouraged to accept liberalism, there is even a certain suspicion of it (as white and western). I suspect the grass roots pressure pushing for decolonisation of culture and education etc. is motivated by ethnocentrism and a desire to see it reflect their own ethnic group's history and experience. I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British, I can imagine what a classroom today might be like where the majority are Pakistani or Bangladeshi background and still having to study the same authors.

    With these groups the issues go beyond skin colour, this is usually a secondary thing compared to the cultural and religious differences, different historical experiences etc.

    What I’m thinking is that the liberal establishment fully expects that the hordes of Pakistanis et. al are going to be happy to become fully integrated into materialistic consumer society.
     
    From what I have seen they like it, but their income levels don't generally rise beyond the lower levels, so they don't move beyond the consumerism of the remaining British working class (mostly following the less prosperous Northern version of the culture). At the same time these communities currently don't have the same level of the social problems with drugs and broken families that the white working class does.

    I don't know how long it would take to raise them to the level of the consumption patterns of the middle classes, if it was possible. I tend to see the middle classes as being both the biggest supporters of liberalism, and the most at risk from it.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123

    Some are saying that they are becoming aware of this and trying to ease off on the Wokeness and intersectionality as a result, but I think that the growth in these groups will be too rapid for them to be integrated into Western liberalism.

    It is a bit more complex. Modern SJW tenants hold that the ultimate evils are:

    • Christianity
    • Work Ethic
    • Merit
    • Heterosexuality
    • Strong Males
    • Whiteness

    The bottom of the Pyramid of Grievance is locked. As this excludes the most productive citizens, modern ‘authoritarian liberalism’ is doomed. The feeding frenzy for higher slots is already visible. For example, feminists versus transgender in sports.

    Migration simply hastens the process. The infamous “Karen” could hope for advancement in the Pyramid by wielding entitlement (instead of merit) and disdain for patriarchal churches. Migrants also get points in the SJW Pyramid. When a Karen cannot advance because of a migrant… Watchout…

    Imagine a Home Owners Association meeting with 10,000,000 participants. Disaster & Disorder loom.

    PEACE 😇

  360. @Mr. Hack
    What's happened to our fearless AP? I know that he mentioned that he was quite busy a few weeks back, but even when he's been on vacation, he's always manages to inform us, and even to send in a few comments? And his erstwhile alter ego, Beckov? Could their dual disappearance be somehow related?

    http://byrdcampbell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Copy-of-Spy_vs_Spy_WallPaper_2560X1024_by_Zarious-300x266.png

    Casualties of Cold War2, or just a case of the pre-holiday blues? :-)

    Replies: @German_reader

    Let’s hope they’ll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @German_reader

    Isn't it more surprising in the opposite, how most of the interesting writers were still visiting in the forum? But nowadays I feel we are lacking the pairs of Bashibuzuk/Altan and utu/AaronB. Also Melanf.

    Bashibuzuk/Altan will return soon again hopefully. It's sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.

    Replies: @German_reader

  361. @A123
    @Mikel


    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended
     
    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.
    ____

    Here is more information directly on this point (1)

    Trump has now issued a clarification of his earlier post on the same platform, his TruthSocial:


    “The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to ‘terminate’ the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is ‘MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,’ as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!”

     

    Again, whether Trump’s claim that the election was stolen is true or not is a separate issue; he didn’t call for an end to the Constitution. But put aside the usual Trumpian melodrama, and there’s a really interesting contention underneath.

    Presuming a situation (for the sake of argument) where the 2020 election was stolen from Trump — a position that does have evidence to support it — the current administration would be illegitimate and the United States would have ceased to be a Republic. In that case, the Constitution and other republican laws would not, in fact, help the American people, because they only work as protections under a system of government that would have ceased to exist. Perhaps, instead of falsely accusing Trump of wanting to end the Constitution, the media should instead take on the argument I just articulated.

    The truly controversial and bombshell thing Trump claimed was that we are no longer living in a Republic. That’s what the media — and the American people — should be debating.
     
    If you are serious, you will admit you were wrong and apologize.

    Cultists are incapable of admitting error. If you refuse to recant, you provide more objective evidence about your dishonest extremism.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/catherinesalgado/2022/12/05/trump-clarifies-statement-misrepresented-as-a-call-to-end-to-u-s-constitution-n1651031

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    Why do you continuously harass the “NeverTrumpists” that seem to flock at this blogsite? Why not take on somebody worthy of your stature and presence like Philip Geraldi? He seems to think that it’s actually American Jewry (a group that you so vigorously defend) that will be responsible for pounding in the last nail into Trump’s coffin? One big guy taking on another, eh?
    Trump is Toast
    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/trump-is-toast/

  362. @A123
    @Mikel


    Trump’s idea that the Constitution should be suspended
     
    Only #NeverTrump Cultists repeat this lie. It never happened. Denying reality is cult-tastic on your part.
    ____

    Here is more information directly on this point (1)

    Trump has now issued a clarification of his earlier post on the same platform, his TruthSocial:


    “The Fake News is actually trying to convince the American People that I said I wanted to ‘terminate’ the Constitution. This is simply more DISINFORMATION & LIES, just like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, and all of their other HOAXES & SCAMS. What I said was that when there is ‘MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION,’ as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 Presidential Election, steps must be immediately taken to RIGHT THE WRONG. Only FOOLS would disagree with that and accept STOLEN ELECTIONS. MAGA!”

     

    Again, whether Trump’s claim that the election was stolen is true or not is a separate issue; he didn’t call for an end to the Constitution. But put aside the usual Trumpian melodrama, and there’s a really interesting contention underneath.

    Presuming a situation (for the sake of argument) where the 2020 election was stolen from Trump — a position that does have evidence to support it — the current administration would be illegitimate and the United States would have ceased to be a Republic. In that case, the Constitution and other republican laws would not, in fact, help the American people, because they only work as protections under a system of government that would have ceased to exist. Perhaps, instead of falsely accusing Trump of wanting to end the Constitution, the media should instead take on the argument I just articulated.

    The truly controversial and bombshell thing Trump claimed was that we are no longer living in a Republic. That’s what the media — and the American people — should be debating.
     
    If you are serious, you will admit you were wrong and apologize.

    Cultists are incapable of admitting error. If you refuse to recant, you provide more objective evidence about your dishonest extremism.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/catherinesalgado/2022/12/05/trump-clarifies-statement-misrepresented-as-a-call-to-end-to-u-s-constitution-n1651031

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I thought that Buchanan used the word “Trumpist” somewhat sympathetically.


    Something really rubs me the wrong way about that crossroads cartoon. Somehow, it doesn’t seem real – like it is made by AI, or by someone who is not American, or else someone to whom real American traditions haven’t been carried.

    Uncle Sam dragging the American flag in the dirt? Would an American really draw something like that? I remember being taught flag etiquette in elementary school, when we were given tiny flags. (This would probably be an odd experience for most Europeans, especially Germans.)

    Edit: Or is that supposed to be Biden? I guess that would make sense, as he is senile.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    You might be overly pedantic when analyzing that cartoon, or perhaps it really does represent a sleepy eyed Biden. To be honest I didn't analyze it a closely as you have. I liked it because it so accurately depicted the dilemma that our resident Professor is facing - in that respect, do you think that it's any good?

    BTW, I double checked and it's not a dirt road, but one made of asphalt - still not the most accommodating of material for the US flag, but not quite as lowly as you point out. :-)

    Replies: @songbird

  363. @Yahya
    @Coconuts


    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.
     
    I recall the odd feeling when I had spent a few months living in a major Northeast American city and thinking to myself “where are all the kids?” Subsequent visits to other cities reconfirmed this Children Of Men phenomenon of not encountering any children in any major city in the US. Once you recognize that fact, it creates a very eerie atmosphere in a dystopian sort of way. In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.

    I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British
     
    Apparently British students are now being taught American history in the classroom. In Razib Khan’s podcast episode Ed West mentioned his children took 2 courses on Harriet Tubman and were given pamphlets describing the “black experience” (no mention of Asians or other minorities, odd considering Asians are more predominant in Britain). He compared the situation to Romans abandoning their pagan Gods and switching to Israelite mythos. Obviously the Romans could be excused for switching faiths; it happens to everyone; but Britons voluntarily dedicating a portion of their scarce and important schooling curriculum to teaching American history seems kind of odd tbh.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader

    In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.

    I have plenty of children living around me. They are never seen outside without adult supervision except at one time and x-y coordinate. They are permitted to wait without adult supervision for the school bus M-F for a very few minutes before it picks them up in the morning.

    Probably an American psychiatrist would count my noticing this as evidence of child molester tendencies. Anyway if you want to kidnap a child around here without whacking the parent that is your only shot. When I was a child we had to be back inside when it got dark but other than that we were permitted to be total demons by comparison.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Probably an American psychiatrist would count my noticing this as evidence of child molester tendencies. Anyway if you want to kidnap a child around here without whacking the parent that is your only shot.
     
    Lol, I admire your dark sense of humor (it's your fault btw when I erroneously speculated child sacrifice as having had a eugenic impact on the Lebanese. You implanted the idea in my mind :) )

    I too felt queasy about mentioning my noticing of no kids being around for fear of arousing suspicion; but it's such a obvious phenomena you can hardly fail to notice it. I'm the type that walks around thinking things through in my head, oblivious to my surroundings, so it actually took me a few months to notice the Children of Men situation that prevails in major US cities.


    When I was a child we had to be back inside when it got dark but other than that we were permitted to be total demons by comparison.
     
    Things are safe in Egypt as well, I see kids out and about without their parents everywhere.

    I think I read somewhere that the plurality of child molesters tend to be weird relatives or friends rather than random kid snatchers. Edit: I looked it up and found these stats:


    Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles, or cousins;[17] around 60% are other acquaintances, such as "friends" of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases.
     
  364. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @Coconuts


    My parents both have 20 or more cousins each, I have 2, the next generation in my family have 1, so the decline is fairly stark.
     
    I recall the odd feeling when I had spent a few months living in a major Northeast American city and thinking to myself “where are all the kids?” Subsequent visits to other cities reconfirmed this Children Of Men phenomenon of not encountering any children in any major city in the US. Once you recognize that fact, it creates a very eerie atmosphere in a dystopian sort of way. In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.

    I remember when I had to study Classic British authors in my teens, parts of the class would already complain that it was irrelevant and boring. That was around a quarter of a century ago and everyone was white British
     
    Apparently British students are now being taught American history in the classroom. In Razib Khan’s podcast episode Ed West mentioned his children took 2 courses on Harriet Tubman and were given pamphlets describing the “black experience” (no mention of Asians or other minorities, odd considering Asians are more predominant in Britain). He compared the situation to Romans abandoning their pagan Gods and switching to Israelite mythos. Obviously the Romans could be excused for switching faiths; it happens to everyone; but Britons voluntarily dedicating a portion of their scarce and important schooling curriculum to teaching American history seems kind of odd tbh.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @German_reader

    The trend can be observed in a less pronounced way even on the continent. I remember a few years ago I read something about a school in France being named after Rosa Parks and I thought to myself “Lol, if they really want to go there, they could at least have named it after Toussaint L’Ouverture” (or maybe the father of Alexandre Dumas, for something less controversial). Now I googled and there are apparently several Rosa Parks schools in France. There’s also a Rosa Parks elementary school in Berlin.
    Britain is of course affected especially badly because of the lack of a language barrier and because it’s geopolitically completely in thrall to the US. But in the end everybody in the Western sphere lives under the shadow of America’s myths.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Let’s hope they’ll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

     

    Amazing how much momentum the blog loses when mega-posters like AP, Dmitry and Beckow (who funnily enough I have not interacted with a single time since I came here a year ago) take a break from commenting. When this thread opened it received something like 18 comments in the first day, never a good sign. I remember after the 18th comment it took 10 hours before someone made another comment, the blog could've ended right then and there.

    Probably the number of readers have dropped. I recall seeing an imgur in one of Karlin's last posts tallying a total of 4,500 views. I posted an imgur 3 months ago which tallied 2,000 views. So i'll post another imgur below and see how many views this page gets.

    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous, utu, iffen etc. are still lurking around, perhaps they would let us know. Altanbakshi and Thorfinnsson popped in from time to time so at least some probably still read the comments even if they don't comment themselves. Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:

    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1509007639912493060

    I agree that only a few commentors are keeping the blog alive. For me personally I come here to read 7-8 users, if they leave I will depart also. I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics (which I tried to do with my Nixon posts) and diversifying the discussion away from endless repetition of a few key points and subjects.

    Replies: @Yahya, @German_reader

  365. @songbird
    @A123

    I thought that Buchanan used the word "Trumpist" somewhat sympathetically.

    @Mr. Hack
    Something really rubs me the wrong way about that crossroads cartoon. Somehow, it doesn't seem real - like it is made by AI, or by someone who is not American, or else someone to whom real American traditions haven't been carried.

    Uncle Sam dragging the American flag in the dirt? Would an American really draw something like that? I remember being taught flag etiquette in elementary school, when we were given tiny flags. (This would probably be an odd experience for most Europeans, especially Germans.)

    Edit: Or is that supposed to be Biden? I guess that would make sense, as he is senile.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    You might be overly pedantic when analyzing that cartoon, or perhaps it really does represent a sleepy eyed Biden. To be honest I didn’t analyze it a closely as you have. I liked it because it so accurately depicted the dilemma that our resident Professor is facing – in that respect, do you think that it’s any good?

    BTW, I double checked and it’s not a dirt road, but one made of asphalt – still not the most accommodating of material for the US flag, but not quite as lowly as you point out. 🙂

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Not sure I really understand all the symbology of the cartoon. I'm somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt. (prodigal son?)

    But I am afraid that I have somewhat harsh opinions about modern political cartoons. It appears to me that there has been a lot of dysgenics since Thomas Nast. Or maybe they have always been like that? And it was only the rare one that was any good.

    From what I have seen of the current crop, I would say that it is only the anons with their memes who are any good on occasion. I would single out Stonetoss alone as being talented:

    https://stonetoss.com/comic/think-different/
    https://stonetoss.com/comic/r-ticulate/

    But even with him, IMO, it is mostly misses.

    As to the particulars of your question: I think there are surely certain contradictions with the professor (as with us all). Of course, personally I feel a bit torn, as I am sympathetic to some level of anti-Americanism (I think the regime deserves criticism), even if I am put off by some Soviet-era permutations, that one would have heard, at the trial of Francis Gary Powers. Though, I guess it still is interesting to hear them, as they make one think about the influence of propaganda on us all.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

  366. @German_reader
    @sudden death

    I notice Karlin now has a Morroccan flag in his profile...solidarity with fellow poc rioting in Belgium?
    The part with the long-range drones already seems to be happening:
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/06/world/russia-ukraine-war-news#explosions-rock-two-military-bases-in-russia-according-to-some-russian-media
    Also notable that Ukraine must have teams deep inside Russia to pull this off.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Matra

    Ukraine has been using these Soviet-era drones sporadically since the beginning. It is trivial to have spies on the ground when both sides are effectively the same people–they look similar, share most of the same culture and speak the same language.

    Regarding AK, it is surprising that he seems to not understand what Russia is doing. Speaking poetically, they were forced to attack a country they love, so the war is not a normal war. Maybe he will understand once he has a family of his own. As far as making new drones, how well does that work if there is no power, water, food or material?

    Regarding vast supplies of Western ammunition, how many railroad bridges will Russia have to destroy to limit the influx to a trickle? Whatever the number, they can be destroyed in a day. They have not done this yet because those same bridges allow trains to bring in food and allow non-combatants to seek safety.

  367. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    You might be overly pedantic when analyzing that cartoon, or perhaps it really does represent a sleepy eyed Biden. To be honest I didn't analyze it a closely as you have. I liked it because it so accurately depicted the dilemma that our resident Professor is facing - in that respect, do you think that it's any good?

    BTW, I double checked and it's not a dirt road, but one made of asphalt - still not the most accommodating of material for the US flag, but not quite as lowly as you point out. :-)

    Replies: @songbird

    Not sure I really understand all the symbology of the cartoon. I’m somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt. (prodigal son?)

    [MORE]

    But I am afraid that I have somewhat harsh opinions about modern political cartoons. It appears to me that there has been a lot of dysgenics since Thomas Nast. Or maybe they have always been like that? And it was only the rare one that was any good.

    From what I have seen of the current crop, I would say that it is only the anons with their memes who are any good on occasion. I would single out Stonetoss alone as being talented:

    https://stonetoss.com/comic/think-different/
    https://stonetoss.com/comic/r-ticulate/

    But even with him, IMO, it is mostly misses.

    As to the particulars of your question: I think there are surely certain contradictions with the professor (as with us all). Of course, personally I feel a bit torn, as I am sympathetic to some level of anti-Americanism (I think the regime deserves criticism), even if I am put off by some Soviet-era permutations, that one would have heard, at the trial of Francis Gary Powers. Though, I guess it still is interesting to hear them, as they make one think about the influence of propaganda on us all.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    I’m somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt.
     
    I did reverse image search, supposedly it's the flag of Bangladesh. So it's about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.
    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that's probably the point.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    , @songbird
    @songbird

    Also thought this was a good one, though its message appears to be a lot more subtle:

    https://stonetoss.com/comic/jus-saiyan/

    Essentially, I'd interpret as being that there is a lot of forced rhetoric about representation in Hollywood, but they do a really bad job of representing masculine ideals, which should appeal to at least half the audience, and which explains some of the appeal of Japanese culture, even considering how alien it might be in some ways.

    Some additional context: the latter panel features an alien who turns blond and blue-eyed, when he reaches some extreme power level, that he has gained the ability to enter from the result of training and other tests and challenges, and, far from being put off by it, the black boys in the panel are attracted to the inherent masculine themes.

    Probably the same thing could be said of feminine ideals, to a certain extent. Though of course, the Disney princesses are a byword.

  368. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Not sure I really understand all the symbology of the cartoon. I'm somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt. (prodigal son?)

    But I am afraid that I have somewhat harsh opinions about modern political cartoons. It appears to me that there has been a lot of dysgenics since Thomas Nast. Or maybe they have always been like that? And it was only the rare one that was any good.

    From what I have seen of the current crop, I would say that it is only the anons with their memes who are any good on occasion. I would single out Stonetoss alone as being talented:

    https://stonetoss.com/comic/think-different/
    https://stonetoss.com/comic/r-ticulate/

    But even with him, IMO, it is mostly misses.

    As to the particulars of your question: I think there are surely certain contradictions with the professor (as with us all). Of course, personally I feel a bit torn, as I am sympathetic to some level of anti-Americanism (I think the regime deserves criticism), even if I am put off by some Soviet-era permutations, that one would have heard, at the trial of Francis Gary Powers. Though, I guess it still is interesting to hear them, as they make one think about the influence of propaganda on us all.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    I’m somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt.

    I did reverse image search, supposedly it’s the flag of Bangladesh. So it’s about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.
    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that’s probably the point.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that’s probably the point.
     
    As I tried to explain to songbird above:

    I liked it because it so accurately depicted the dilemma that our resident Professor is facing
     
    I think for that basic purpose the cartoon worked well - I didn't put the carton under a microscope like you two have done. I think it's just another marker of a great cartoon, when one can get into the message deeper and deeper.

    Here we have a poor twisted soul (Professor TN) who loves Russia and most of what it stands for, and yet out of many contradictory self-imposed limitations he sees himself stuck in an environment, a country, that for the largest part he sees as being inimical to his own values and views. I'm only trying to implore him to make the big leap back home, where it's obvious he'd feel much better. He's a fish out f water in the US. He's no longer a young man, so he must be starting to reach retirement age, and is stuck in a quandary, where to go, thus the fork in the road depicted in the cartoon: He needs to make a choice, sooner hopefully rather than later.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @songbird
    @German_reader


    So it’s about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.
     
    Youtuber Indigo Traveler just began a series on Ghana. He went to Accra, and I was actually surprised because somehow I had the idea it wasn't as bad as Nigeria, but it still looked somewhat more apocalyptic than I had imagined it.

    Anyway, he asked one fellow what he wanted to tell outsiders, and this shirtless guy, living in a slum, was begging the UN and European countries to bring peace to Russia and Ukraine.

    There's a short snippet of it @5s in
    https://youtu.be/sTio_0rwR1s

    Replies: @German_reader

  369. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya


    In my 4 years of residence in the US I probably only saw maybe 2-3 kids, total.
     
    I have plenty of children living around me. They are never seen outside without adult supervision except at one time and x-y coordinate. They are permitted to wait without adult supervision for the school bus M-F for a very few minutes before it picks them up in the morning.

    Probably an American psychiatrist would count my noticing this as evidence of child molester tendencies. Anyway if you want to kidnap a child around here without whacking the parent that is your only shot. When I was a child we had to be back inside when it got dark but other than that we were permitted to be total demons by comparison.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Probably an American psychiatrist would count my noticing this as evidence of child molester tendencies. Anyway if you want to kidnap a child around here without whacking the parent that is your only shot.

    Lol, I admire your dark sense of humor (it’s your fault btw when I erroneously speculated child sacrifice as having had a eugenic impact on the Lebanese. You implanted the idea in my mind 🙂 )

    I too felt queasy about mentioning my noticing of no kids being around for fear of arousing suspicion; but it’s such a obvious phenomena you can hardly fail to notice it. I’m the type that walks around thinking things through in my head, oblivious to my surroundings, so it actually took me a few months to notice the Children of Men situation that prevails in major US cities.

    When I was a child we had to be back inside when it got dark but other than that we were permitted to be total demons by comparison.

    Things are safe in Egypt as well, I see kids out and about without their parents everywhere.

    I think I read somewhere that the plurality of child molesters tend to be weird relatives or friends rather than random kid snatchers. Edit: I looked it up and found these stats:

    Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles, or cousins;[17] around 60% are other acquaintances, such as “friends” of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases.

  370. @German_reader
    @Yahya

    The trend can be observed in a less pronounced way even on the continent. I remember a few years ago I read something about a school in France being named after Rosa Parks and I thought to myself "Lol, if they really want to go there, they could at least have named it after Toussaint L'Ouverture" (or maybe the father of Alexandre Dumas, for something less controversial). Now I googled and there are apparently several Rosa Parks schools in France. There's also a Rosa Parks elementary school in Berlin.
    Britain is of course affected especially badly because of the lack of a language barrier and because it's geopolitically completely in thrall to the US. But in the end everybody in the Western sphere lives under the shadow of America's myths.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Let’s hope they’ll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

    Amazing how much momentum the blog loses when mega-posters like AP, Dmitry and Beckow (who funnily enough I have not interacted with a single time since I came here a year ago) take a break from commenting. When this thread opened it received something like 18 comments in the first day, never a good sign. I remember after the 18th comment it took 10 hours before someone made another comment, the blog could’ve ended right then and there.

    Probably the number of readers have dropped. I recall seeing an imgur in one of Karlin’s last posts tallying a total of 4,500 views. I posted an imgur 3 months ago which tallied 2,000 views. So i’ll post another imgur below and see how many views this page gets.

    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous, utu, iffen etc. are still lurking around, perhaps they would let us know. Altanbakshi and Thorfinnsson popped in from time to time so at least some probably still read the comments even if they don’t comment themselves. Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:

    I agree that only a few commentors are keeping the blog alive. For me personally I come here to read 7-8 users, if they leave I will depart also. I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics (which I tried to do with my Nixon posts) and diversifying the discussion away from endless repetition of a few key points and subjects.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Yahya

    https://imgur.com/49bfbEv

    , @German_reader
    @Yahya


    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous etc. are till lurking around, perhaps they would let us know.
     
    I very much doubt it for reiner tor, I suppose he's busy with private matters, maybe also feels despair at the international situation. I might try sending him an email at the end of this year, though I suppose he's got his reasons for having "disappeared", which one should respect. Still a pity, one of the best commenters here.

    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    LOL.

    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    I might post a list of books read this year at year's end, with short comments about whether I'd recommend them or not. Can't think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can't be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

  371. @German_reader
    @songbird


    I’m somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt.
     
    I did reverse image search, supposedly it's the flag of Bangladesh. So it's about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.
    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that's probably the point.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that’s probably the point.

    As I tried to explain to songbird above:

    I liked it because it so accurately depicted the dilemma that our resident Professor is facing

    I think for that basic purpose the cartoon worked well – I didn’t put the carton under a microscope like you two have done. I think it’s just another marker of a great cartoon, when one can get into the message deeper and deeper.

    Here we have a poor twisted soul (Professor TN) who loves Russia and most of what it stands for, and yet out of many contradictory self-imposed limitations he sees himself stuck in an environment, a country, that for the largest part he sees as being inimical to his own values and views. I’m only trying to implore him to make the big leap back home, where it’s obvious he’d feel much better. He’s a fish out f water in the US. He’s no longer a young man, so he must be starting to reach retirement age, and is stuck in a quandary, where to go, thus the fork in the road depicted in the cartoon: He needs to make a choice, sooner hopefully rather than later.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    You are projecting.

    For any nomad soul with a gleaner mentality the USA cannot be beat. If you want to live like a Russian mobster there's plenty of places just as good. Would you like to live like a Russian mobster? Doesn't seem that appealing to most of us.

    Now I cannot escape the image of Karlin being a real G.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  372. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Let’s hope they’ll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

     

    Amazing how much momentum the blog loses when mega-posters like AP, Dmitry and Beckow (who funnily enough I have not interacted with a single time since I came here a year ago) take a break from commenting. When this thread opened it received something like 18 comments in the first day, never a good sign. I remember after the 18th comment it took 10 hours before someone made another comment, the blog could've ended right then and there.

    Probably the number of readers have dropped. I recall seeing an imgur in one of Karlin's last posts tallying a total of 4,500 views. I posted an imgur 3 months ago which tallied 2,000 views. So i'll post another imgur below and see how many views this page gets.

    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous, utu, iffen etc. are still lurking around, perhaps they would let us know. Altanbakshi and Thorfinnsson popped in from time to time so at least some probably still read the comments even if they don't comment themselves. Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:

    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1509007639912493060

    I agree that only a few commentors are keeping the blog alive. For me personally I come here to read 7-8 users, if they leave I will depart also. I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics (which I tried to do with my Nixon posts) and diversifying the discussion away from endless repetition of a few key points and subjects.

    Replies: @Yahya, @German_reader

  373. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Not sure I really understand all the symbology of the cartoon. I'm somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt. (prodigal son?)

    But I am afraid that I have somewhat harsh opinions about modern political cartoons. It appears to me that there has been a lot of dysgenics since Thomas Nast. Or maybe they have always been like that? And it was only the rare one that was any good.

    From what I have seen of the current crop, I would say that it is only the anons with their memes who are any good on occasion. I would single out Stonetoss alone as being talented:

    https://stonetoss.com/comic/think-different/
    https://stonetoss.com/comic/r-ticulate/

    But even with him, IMO, it is mostly misses.

    As to the particulars of your question: I think there are surely certain contradictions with the professor (as with us all). Of course, personally I feel a bit torn, as I am sympathetic to some level of anti-Americanism (I think the regime deserves criticism), even if I am put off by some Soviet-era permutations, that one would have heard, at the trial of Francis Gary Powers. Though, I guess it still is interesting to hear them, as they make one think about the influence of propaganda on us all.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    Also thought this was a good one, though its message appears to be a lot more subtle:

    [MORE]

    https://stonetoss.com/comic/jus-saiyan/

    Essentially, I’d interpret as being that there is a lot of forced rhetoric about representation in Hollywood, but they do a really bad job of representing masculine ideals, which should appeal to at least half the audience, and which explains some of the appeal of Japanese culture, even considering how alien it might be in some ways.

    Some additional context: the latter panel features an alien who turns blond and blue-eyed, when he reaches some extreme power level, that he has gained the ability to enter from the result of training and other tests and challenges, and, far from being put off by it, the black boys in the panel are attracted to the inherent masculine themes.

    Probably the same thing could be said of feminine ideals, to a certain extent. Though of course, the Disney princesses are a byword.

  374. German_reader says:
    @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Let’s hope they’ll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

     

    Amazing how much momentum the blog loses when mega-posters like AP, Dmitry and Beckow (who funnily enough I have not interacted with a single time since I came here a year ago) take a break from commenting. When this thread opened it received something like 18 comments in the first day, never a good sign. I remember after the 18th comment it took 10 hours before someone made another comment, the blog could've ended right then and there.

    Probably the number of readers have dropped. I recall seeing an imgur in one of Karlin's last posts tallying a total of 4,500 views. I posted an imgur 3 months ago which tallied 2,000 views. So i'll post another imgur below and see how many views this page gets.

    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous, utu, iffen etc. are still lurking around, perhaps they would let us know. Altanbakshi and Thorfinnsson popped in from time to time so at least some probably still read the comments even if they don't comment themselves. Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:

    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1509007639912493060

    I agree that only a few commentors are keeping the blog alive. For me personally I come here to read 7-8 users, if they leave I will depart also. I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics (which I tried to do with my Nixon posts) and diversifying the discussion away from endless repetition of a few key points and subjects.

    Replies: @Yahya, @German_reader

    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous etc. are till lurking around, perhaps they would let us know.

    I very much doubt it for reiner tor, I suppose he’s busy with private matters, maybe also feels despair at the international situation. I might try sending him an email at the end of this year, though I suppose he’s got his reasons for having “disappeared”, which one should respect. Still a pity, one of the best commenters here.

    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:

    LOL.

    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics

    I might post a list of books read this year at year’s end, with short comments about whether I’d recommend them or not. Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.
     
    Thanks for the positive reinforcement. I knew we could always count on you to be a ray of sunshine in an otherwise bleak and pessimistic world.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    @Yahya


    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    I feel a kindred identity with Hanania, similar family background and outlook I suppose. I like his sense of humour and light attitude towards things.
    Didn't Hanania rarely comment on Karlin's threads here? Though perhaps I'm misremembering that. Hanania has written some very good substack articles on American Conservatism as a loser movement recently. I try to any avoid culture-wars commentary whether I agree or not (getting stuck in the mud of this mostly killed Quillete's interest for me), but I thought he had some real insights in looking at root causes.
    His article on 'Woke Instituations is Just Civil Rights' Law I personally found a great source for optimism about the future, though others might interpret his conclusions differently.

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/conservatism-as-an-oppositional-culture

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/woke-institutions-is-just-civil-rights


    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    Karlin quitting this site a few months before the Russian-Ukrainian War resumed/massively-escalated was unfortunate timing. Frankly I'd always found the endless spats that eventually ended every AK thread going years back tiresome and always scrolled over them.

    I might post a list of books read this year at year’s end, with short comments about whether I’d recommend them or not. Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.
     
    Do that, I'd be interested in reading it. I might do the same around year's end as a longpost and then seriously try quitting commenting online as a new year's resolution.. which practically jinxes chance of that succeeding.
    Worth noting the posters that permanently disappeared never announced anything. I think the internal rule is, if you still feel invested enough in a forum that you still feel any need to tell that you're quitting posting, you probably aren't going to leave.

    @Yahya


    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran.
     
    Sorry, my response came off a little rude. I did not mean my comment as an endorsement of Iran regardless. It was simply a factual observation that Iran is now the only Middle-Eastern state that still seriously opposes Israeli foreign and domestic policies.

    I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister of the time pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt. Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)
     
    I understood you were referring originally to 1973 embargo. I just disagree that it was taken for any altruistic motive... its hardly any secret that all OPEC members benefited massively from it.
    I think the risk KSA and others took is very overstated, it happened at time when the USSR's influence in the Middle-East was still very strong. Any anti-monarchical feeling the Middle-East then also invariably took a Marxist orientation, the Americans would have been well aware of this.

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:
     
    I'm sure that Saudi 'aid' is also an extremely poisoned chalice, associated with massive handouts to various Salafist organisations and 'charities'. Particularly worrisome is the way Saudi funding/subsidising of bogus scriptural 'education' abroad captures the minds of the poor, with its disastrous long-term effects now well attested in Pakistan and Indonesia.

    Anyway, Iran's government is nasty and domestically idiotic with its theocratic policies, but it at least tries to build long-term client relationships based on shared interests. Israel and KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East's natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    , @showmethereal
    @German_reader

    I see in the news there is a big police bust in Germany against “Reichsbuerger”. They arrested about 25 and say they have about 20,000 adherents. How popular at they really? And are they really “extremists” or not?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  375. @German_reader
    @Yahya


    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous etc. are till lurking around, perhaps they would let us know.
     
    I very much doubt it for reiner tor, I suppose he's busy with private matters, maybe also feels despair at the international situation. I might try sending him an email at the end of this year, though I suppose he's got his reasons for having "disappeared", which one should respect. Still a pity, one of the best commenters here.

    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    LOL.

    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    I might post a list of books read this year at year's end, with short comments about whether I'd recommend them or not. Can't think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can't be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    Thanks for the positive reinforcement. I knew we could always count on you to be a ray of sunshine in an otherwise bleak and pessimistic world.

    • LOL: German_reader, Mikel
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yahya

    It might not be in our hands anyway, I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Yahya

  376. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.
     
    Thanks for the positive reinforcement. I knew we could always count on you to be a ray of sunshine in an otherwise bleak and pessimistic world.

    Replies: @German_reader

    It might not be in our hands anyway, I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.
     
    Who is going to read it after a thermonuclear war? Roaches? Rodents? To the best of my knowledge neither can read.
    , @Yahya
    @German_reader


    I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.
     
    Ron Unz scored 200+ on IQ tests so I’m pretty sure he has that figured out as well.

    Replies: @Mikel

  377. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN


    But in objective comparison today’s RF wins hands down.
     
    If you really feel this way, and your opinion is based on "scientific" research methods, then today more than even yesterday, I encourage you to return. I mean really, why would you not, if you really feel this way and aren't just BSing us and yourself?:

    https://www.tbsnews.net/sites/default/files/styles/big_3/public/images/2022/04/07/russia_us_hasina_cartoon_2_final.png
    Take that college pension and run – Mother Russia awaits its true patriots, Prof Janissar. Don’t put off returning any longer. Breathe free again!

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Don’t you think I am working on it?

    However, unlike some people, I cannot just get up and go. I take my responsibilities seriously. To close my lab responsibly I need to make sure that everyone who works for me gets suitable employment. I also need to make sure that every good undergrad who worked in my lab gets into grad/med school s/he wants. Both of these involve writing recommendation letters, which have greater impact on University letterhead. I also have responsibility to my field. I need to deposit with Addgene every plasmid made in my lab that my colleagues might find useful.

    More selfish thing involves transferring my money to Russia circumventing a ban imposed by a well-known demented individual. I found and used several ways, but these do not have the capacity I need. So, I am looking for other ways with greater capacity.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  378. Another day in Donbass. The facts speak for themselves, so I won’t add any comments.

    Donetsk. Ukrainian shelling yesterday killed eight civilians and wounded 20. Among those killed was female DPR MP Maria Pirogova.

    Alchevsk. Ukrainian shelling yesterday killed ten civilians and wounded 23.

    News outside of Donbass that also don’t need commenting.

    Zaporozhye nuclear power plant was shelled by Ukraine again with 155 mm shells (for those who don’t know, that’s NATO caliber, Russian shells are 152 mm).

    “Democratic” Latvia revoked the license of anti-Putin TV channel Dozhd after 4.5 months of its moving to “democratic” Europe, where they thought there is no censorship. Before that it broadcast in Russia (presumably under severe censorship) for 12 years.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.

    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?

    Russia itself has killed thousands of Russian-speakers, per the UN.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

  379. @German_reader
    @Yahya

    It might not be in our hands anyway, I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Yahya

    I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.

    Who is going to read it after a thermonuclear war? Roaches? Rodents? To the best of my knowledge neither can read.

  380. @German_reader
    @sudden death

    I notice Karlin now has a Morroccan flag in his profile...solidarity with fellow poc rioting in Belgium?
    The part with the long-range drones already seems to be happening:
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/06/world/russia-ukraine-war-news#explosions-rock-two-military-bases-in-russia-according-to-some-russian-media
    Also notable that Ukraine must have teams deep inside Russia to pull this off.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Matra

    He had a Senegal flag on Sunday, when they played England at the World Cup. Bitterness towards ‘Westoids’ I guess.

  381. @German_reader
    @songbird


    I’m somewhat lost at the significant of the sun symbol, on the back of the shirt.
     
    I did reverse image search, supposedly it's the flag of Bangladesh. So it's about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.
    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that's probably the point.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    So it’s about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.

    Youtuber Indigo Traveler just began a series on Ghana. He went to Accra, and I was actually surprised because somehow I had the idea it wasn’t as bad as Nigeria, but it still looked somewhat more apocalyptic than I had imagined it.

    Anyway, he asked one fellow what he wanted to tell outsiders, and this shirtless guy, living in a slum, was begging the UN and European countries to bring peace to Russia and Ukraine.

    [MORE]

    There’s a short snippet of it @5s in

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird

    That slum looks pretty dystopian. I agree, somewhat suprising, Ghana has a reputation as comparatively well-governed (stable democracy) after all.
    Wonder what that shirtless guy's reasoning was...is he afraid because of the food situation?

  382. Arab Twitter is lighting up over Morocco’s victory:

    [MORE]

    https://twitter.com/hannibulk/status/1600187915736260611?s=21

    • Replies: @Matra
    @Yahya

    I watched the 2nd half of that match and had the exact same thoughts as Karl Sharro - whoever that is. Even when they are in the penalty box with a chance to shoot they pass or try to place the ball in the net rather rather just shooting hard anywhere on target. Tedious passing - a thousand or so - that goes nowhere, virtually no crosses - they need taller players! Good riddance to boring Spain.

    Replies: @Yahya

  383. @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    Not sure why Mr Hack chose that cartoon, tbh both the US and Russia look distinctly unappealing in it, and that’s probably the point.
     
    As I tried to explain to songbird above:

    I liked it because it so accurately depicted the dilemma that our resident Professor is facing
     
    I think for that basic purpose the cartoon worked well - I didn't put the carton under a microscope like you two have done. I think it's just another marker of a great cartoon, when one can get into the message deeper and deeper.

    Here we have a poor twisted soul (Professor TN) who loves Russia and most of what it stands for, and yet out of many contradictory self-imposed limitations he sees himself stuck in an environment, a country, that for the largest part he sees as being inimical to his own values and views. I'm only trying to implore him to make the big leap back home, where it's obvious he'd feel much better. He's a fish out f water in the US. He's no longer a young man, so he must be starting to reach retirement age, and is stuck in a quandary, where to go, thus the fork in the road depicted in the cartoon: He needs to make a choice, sooner hopefully rather than later.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    You are projecting.

    For any nomad soul with a gleaner mentality the USA cannot be beat. If you want to live like a Russian mobster there’s plenty of places just as good. Would you like to live like a Russian mobster? Doesn’t seem that appealing to most of us.

    Now I cannot escape the image of Karlin being a real G.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Me live like a "Russian mobster"? You have an interesting composite of my personality that I never realized that I exhibited. Please tell me more?....

    https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ap18018731670165.jpg?w=525

    Finally, the real "Mr. Hack" undressed. :-)

  384. @songbird
    @German_reader


    So it’s about Global South countries being put under pressure to choose sides regarding the Ukraine conflict.
     
    Youtuber Indigo Traveler just began a series on Ghana. He went to Accra, and I was actually surprised because somehow I had the idea it wasn't as bad as Nigeria, but it still looked somewhat more apocalyptic than I had imagined it.

    Anyway, he asked one fellow what he wanted to tell outsiders, and this shirtless guy, living in a slum, was begging the UN and European countries to bring peace to Russia and Ukraine.

    There's a short snippet of it @5s in
    https://youtu.be/sTio_0rwR1s

    Replies: @German_reader

    That slum looks pretty dystopian. I agree, somewhat suprising, Ghana has a reputation as comparatively well-governed (stable democracy) after all.
    Wonder what that shirtless guy’s reasoning was…is he afraid because of the food situation?

    • Agree: songbird
  385. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack

    Let's hope they'll be back soon. Although I frequently disagree with both of them, without them this community would soon be on the road to its end.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Isn’t it more surprising in the opposite, how most of the interesting writers were still visiting in the forum? But nowadays I feel we are lacking the pairs of Bashibuzuk/Altan and utu/AaronB. Also Melanf.

    Bashibuzuk/Altan will return soon again hopefully. It’s sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    It’s sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.
     
    AaronB commented as recently as October in some other thread, so at least he hasn't been eaten by a bear on one of his camping trips yet.
    utu probably left because he could stand neither myself ("German twat", and others like Mikel) nor AP ("professional Ukrainian") anymore. An effect of the war, I suppose. Same is probably true for Melanf.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Barbarossa

  386. @Yahya
    Arab Twitter is lighting up over Morocco’s victory:

    https://twitter.com/notnihal/status/1600185563297947649?s=21

    https://twitter.com/julianakhamo/status/1600187537967828992?s=21

    https://twitter.com/karlremarks/status/1600186815436070914?s=21

    https://twitter.com/hannibulk/status/1600187915736260611?s=21

    Replies: @Matra

    I watched the 2nd half of that match and had the exact same thoughts as Karl Sharro – whoever that is. Even when they are in the penalty box with a chance to shoot they pass or try to place the ball in the net rather rather just shooting hard anywhere on target. Tedious passing – a thousand or so – that goes nowhere, virtually no crosses – they need taller players! Good riddance to boring Spain.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Matra


    they need taller players! Good riddance to boring Spain.
     
    Be careful, silviosilver might pop back to attack you for questioning the Spanish teams’ height and footballing prowess.

    Apparently the Spanish manager made his entire squad practice a thousand penalty kicks prior to the World Cup. Worked out as planned.

  387. @Matra
    @Yahya

    I watched the 2nd half of that match and had the exact same thoughts as Karl Sharro - whoever that is. Even when they are in the penalty box with a chance to shoot they pass or try to place the ball in the net rather rather just shooting hard anywhere on target. Tedious passing - a thousand or so - that goes nowhere, virtually no crosses - they need taller players! Good riddance to boring Spain.

    Replies: @Yahya

    they need taller players! Good riddance to boring Spain.

    Be careful, silviosilver might pop back to attack you for questioning the Spanish teams’ height and footballing prowess.

    Apparently the Spanish manager made his entire squad practice a thousand penalty kicks prior to the World Cup. Worked out as planned.

  388. @AnonfromTN
    Chinese global times puts two and two together: the aim of the US in Ukraine is to weaken Russia and Europe at the same time to benefit the US. The US does not want peace there: the longer the war, the more the US benefits. It’s not news in and of itself: sensible people understood this before. News is that Chinese Global Times puts it exactly as it is, without diplomatic subterfuges.
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202211/1278956.shtml
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202211/1280678.shtml

    Replies: @showmethereal

    True but most won’t listen because western propaganda always makes sure to preface “communist party mouthpiece – Global Times”. You see it in any western news that references it. So most will never go there. There are certain tag lines that seem to go in automatically. That’s how you can usually tell which media is part of the international “Operation Mockingbird”. The same way they paint picture of Putin as an evil maniac…. So anytime they reference “Putin says” or “according to Putin” the average westerner automatically discounts anything he says because he already has been programmed in their mind to be a killer who is threatening to nuke the world. The psyops is brilliant. It’s devious – but brilliant.

    Another poster on her “Latw” said they don’t like Global Times because they lecture Europe. To me it seems they are trying to save Europe…. But “how dare those commies speak to us”

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe
     
    Maybe Chinese are trying to save Europe. However, the last few months suggest to me that Europe is beyond salvage (maybe with the exception of a few islands of sanity still left there). I’d prefer to be wrong, but…

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @songbird
    @showmethereal


    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe
     
    That's complete tosh - if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn't be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans.

    No, a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest, and don't want to see the US clear the field for action against China.

    Though, I do grant you that it is possible that many of these countries that beat the drum - Iran for instance - have been left behind as far as the trends go, and they are run by boomers who don't understand that we are a long way from the '60s, and things have really started to deteriorate, at a quickening pace, and, if we go, it might be like a set of dominoes ultimately impacting them.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @showmethereal

  389. @German_reader
    @Yahya

    It might not be in our hands anyway, I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Yahya

    I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.

    Ron Unz scored 200+ on IQ tests so I’m pretty sure he has that figured out as well.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Yahya


    Ron Unz scored 200+ on IQ tests
     
    It looks like there are claims that he scored 214, which is difficult to believe, but in any case he is extremely intelligent, being a theoretical physicist and self-made multimillionaire. However, look at what things he believes in, what authors he promotes on his website and how he chooses to inform himself about topics like the war in Ukraine. On the latter, it's not like listening to the monologues of the same few contrarian voices, whose analyses have been refuted once and again by objective facts, saves you any time. I have been following the war as closely as anyone but, quite frankly, I don't have the time to listen to a 1 hour+ long video of anyone's opinions. Apparently a very high intelligence doesn't necessarily provide good common sense.

    Replies: @Yahya

  390. @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    True but most won’t listen because western propaganda always makes sure to preface “communist party mouthpiece - Global Times”. You see it in any western news that references it. So most will never go there. There are certain tag lines that seem to go in automatically. That’s how you can usually tell which media is part of the international “Operation Mockingbird”. The same way they paint picture of Putin as an evil maniac…. So anytime they reference “Putin says” or “according to Putin” the average westerner automatically discounts anything he says because he already has been programmed in their mind to be a killer who is threatening to nuke the world. The psyops is brilliant. It’s devious - but brilliant.

    Another poster on her “Latw” said they don’t like Global Times because they lecture Europe. To me it seems they are trying to save Europe…. But “how dare those commies speak to us”

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe

    Maybe Chinese are trying to save Europe. However, the last few months suggest to me that Europe is beyond salvage (maybe with the exception of a few islands of sanity still left there). I’d prefer to be wrong, but…

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Yeah I can understand because of the atom bombs Japan is still in a state of shock. In the 80's and 90's it did everything the US told it to do (giving up semiconductor tech to signing the Plaza Accords).... But I don't get why Europe is willingly sacrificing itself for US interests. It baffles me.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  391. @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    True but most won’t listen because western propaganda always makes sure to preface “communist party mouthpiece - Global Times”. You see it in any western news that references it. So most will never go there. There are certain tag lines that seem to go in automatically. That’s how you can usually tell which media is part of the international “Operation Mockingbird”. The same way they paint picture of Putin as an evil maniac…. So anytime they reference “Putin says” or “according to Putin” the average westerner automatically discounts anything he says because he already has been programmed in their mind to be a killer who is threatening to nuke the world. The psyops is brilliant. It’s devious - but brilliant.

    Another poster on her “Latw” said they don’t like Global Times because they lecture Europe. To me it seems they are trying to save Europe…. But “how dare those commies speak to us”

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe

    That’s complete tosh – if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn’t be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans.

    No, a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest, and don’t want to see the US clear the field for action against China.

    Though, I do grant you that it is possible that many of these countries that beat the drum – Iran for instance – have been left behind as far as the trends go, and they are run by boomers who don’t understand that we are a long way from the ’60s, and things have really started to deteriorate, at a quickening pace, and, if we go, it might be like a set of dominoes ultimately impacting them.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest
     
    No doubt both China and Russia act from self-interest. They would much prefer gradual changes, rather than a catastrophic crash. Rapid crash would hurt them, too. In the short term the market for Russian oil, gas, coal, metals, as well as for “made in China” stuff would shrink dramatically in case of rapid economic downfall of the US and Europe. In the longer term other parts of the world will pick up the slack, but that would take at least five (more likely fifteen) years.

    Their problem is that neither Europe nor the US act from self-interest. Nobody undermined Europe as much as its “leaders”. Nobody undermined the US dollar as much as the US printing press.

    Both Russia and China act cautiously, trying to repair the cart without upsetting it. It’s in the best interest of the West to ensure that neither Russia nor China gives up on it. But the West is doing its damnedest to force them both to give up and reformat the world totally ignoring it. This would be a painful scenario, although 4/5th of the world would cheer it loudly (travelling to many countries you discover a frighteningly widespread hatred of the West).

    Replies: @songbird

    , @showmethereal
    @songbird

    "That’s complete tosh – if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn’t be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans."

    You obviously didn't read the stories the other person referenced... What does that have to do with domestic social policy.

    Personally I think you are the one obsessed with race. Everything is race for you guys. Usually complaining that others are against your race.

    And I didn't say "save the west". I said Europe specifically... Which is the context of the issue... You think the US is for Europe's best interest???? Anglo Saxon Five Eyes above all else....

    Replies: @songbird

  392. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    It looks like this supports the idea that some British feminists are now promoting, that much of the momentum behind the social changes linked to feminism came from technological change (in industry, in medical and reproductive technology etc.) This is contested by feminists who believe more in ideological factors.

    Imo an interesting question is will the fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology 'bottom out' at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall, to go below current SK levels. It doesn't seem implausible.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry, @Philip Owen

    latest wave feminist, LGBTQIA surprised if this correlates with further declines in fertility within this group

    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.

    Isn’t this one of the illusions promoted in the current politics, where they promote simulation of disagreement, with abstract labels, as Marxism has predicted.

    So, the “traditionalist” posts some picture of a cottage on instagram, while the “radical” has to post a different symbol.

    The level of disagreement is like the mouse in the experiment has been trained to correspond different symbols with receiving food. The conditions of the animal are the same and it will probably behavior not much differently, just it was trained for different symbols.

    With apologies always refering to Russia. But you know the more funny examples this year. Canceled Starbucks, so now Timati (a patriotic rapper) has to change the name and re-open as the patriotic “Stars coffee”. You can sit in “Stars coffee” as the rejection of the American life-style.

    government sought to address it by providing more contraception and abortions to teenage girls.. anti-natalist campaigns

    It’s natalism or anti-natalism is kind of a wide category though for describing policy. This is kind of boring responsible governments’ policy would probably reduce children in orphanages, abortions, or increase the sociality mobility, reduce crime in society. It’s a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.

    Anti-natalism policies in countries like China could be seen as more somewhere between. As it’s a lot related the authorities want to continue reduce the revolutionary conditions and the narrow pro-authorities motive which is not necessarily always a wider pro-society motivation.

    fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology ‘bottom out’ at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall

    Isn’t it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.

    South Korea and Singapore looked very extreme demographic transition, as the fertility rate was 6 in the 1960s, when Ukraine was already 2.

    The main explanation from the development economists or historians would write, is “because South Korea and Singapore also has an unusual fast economic development”. It’s surely accurate for those countries.

    Explanation for South Korea or Singapore are inconsistent with though the story in the postsoviet space often promoted low fertility is “because of the lack of economic development after the 1991”.

    If the economy has been successful in the postsoviet countries, they would say economic success is the cause of the low fertility. But the economy has been unsuccessful, so the journalists say economic unsuccess is the cause of low fertility.

    Countries today which are “medium fertility” like Argentina or Israel. They had far lower fertility rates than current low fertility countries like South Korea.

    They were relatively “lower fertility” countries that just don’t change much, even when Argentina has economy like Ukraine or postsoviet countries in recent times. Israel has economy a bit more like South Korea (although they were more developed in the 1950s and European parts of the population had demographic transition already before).

    If you want to explain with culture instead of economy, Argentina is perhaps not that much more “traditional” than Ukraine. But probably nobody would say Argentina are more traditional than Colombia.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.
     
    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.

    Similarly, some of the more extreme feminist beliefs, that motherhood is a patriarchal imposition and a means of controlling women would intuitively seem to have a negative impact on family formation. Same with the LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation. The belief that humans are going to provoke a climate disaster and destroy the world is again probably similar.

    These may not be the cause of lower fertility, they may be a reflection of some other factor, but if beliefs like them seem to spread or strengthen in a society, predicting that fertility decline will follow doesn't seem unreasonable.

    The number of pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured. I find the argument that emergence of these beliefs is due to a reductio of liberalism, where its principles are being taken to their logical conclusions quite plausible though.

    It’s a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.
     
    This may have been partly what motivated it, there was a kind of moral panic about teenage mothers living on benefits around that time. Concern for social mobility and lowering levels of crime do not seem to have influenced government policy on other issues (say, single parent families or immigration policies), but a lack of coordination like this is not that uncommon.

    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.

    Isn’t it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.
     
    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world, whether the fertility there will continuously decline in the same way as appears to be happening in Europe and East Asia, but potentially some Latin American countries might also follow a different path.

    Replies: @AP, @Coconuts, @Dmitry

  393. @songbird
    @showmethereal


    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe
     
    That's complete tosh - if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn't be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans.

    No, a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest, and don't want to see the US clear the field for action against China.

    Though, I do grant you that it is possible that many of these countries that beat the drum - Iran for instance - have been left behind as far as the trends go, and they are run by boomers who don't understand that we are a long way from the '60s, and things have really started to deteriorate, at a quickening pace, and, if we go, it might be like a set of dominoes ultimately impacting them.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @showmethereal

    a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest

    No doubt both China and Russia act from self-interest. They would much prefer gradual changes, rather than a catastrophic crash. Rapid crash would hurt them, too. In the short term the market for Russian oil, gas, coal, metals, as well as for “made in China” stuff would shrink dramatically in case of rapid economic downfall of the US and Europe. In the longer term other parts of the world will pick up the slack, but that would take at least five (more likely fifteen) years.

    Their problem is that neither Europe nor the US act from self-interest. Nobody undermined Europe as much as its “leaders”. Nobody undermined the US dollar as much as the US printing press.

    Both Russia and China act cautiously, trying to repair the cart without upsetting it. It’s in the best interest of the West to ensure that neither Russia nor China gives up on it. But the West is doing its damnedest to force them both to give up and reformat the world totally ignoring it. This would be a painful scenario, although 4/5th of the world would cheer it loudly (travelling to many countries you discover a frighteningly widespread hatred of the West).

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonfromTN


    But the West is doing its damnedest to force them both to give up and reformat the world totally ignoring it.
     
    It's not really possible to ignore the US. It's the elephant in the room, even for China. And it will leave its own stamp on the world, even in the best case scenario for multipolarity.

    Its geography is so rare and providential. Some might say that the US is the ultimate case of geodeterminism, as it was early written into US history, with independence vs. Canada, and then with slavery, and after with the victory of the more industrial North, with its egalitarian ideas. Its high standard of living, and the social rot that it encouraged. And, finally, now, with the US using its fantastic, peerless ports, facing both the Atlantic and Pacific to export its dominant ideology, over as much of the world as it can.

    Their problem is that neither Europe nor the US act from self-interest. Nobody undermined Europe as much as its “leaders”.
     
    the leader of El Salvador has made this point recently pretty eloquently about the US. When a guy like that is calling out urban rot and social decay, then you know it is bad.


    "The demise of the U.S. has to come from within. No external enemy can cause this much damage," Bukele said. "When you're watching internal operations here you can see cities that were pristinely beautiful 30 years ago [and] are a wasteland right now."

    "I mean, I'm from El Salvador, a third-world country in Central America, and I myself see cities here and say I wouldn't live here. That would be unthinkable three decades ago, that a Salvadoran wouldn't want to live in a U.S. main city," he told Carlson, pointing to cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York and Chicago, where he said he would fear for his safety.

    "When you look how the cities are eroding so fast, this has to be by design. I mean who would make so many stupid decisions?" Bukele asked. "They're literally giving some people drugs in some us cities, or they say we're going to give you money if you don't work. They make all these laws that make no sense. If they have high crime, they say okay I have a solution, let's defund the police."

    "They make these decisions openly," he continued. "It's not even [a] secret and we all know what will be the consequences of it. The defunding of the police, allowing shoplifting, giving drugs to drug addicts, giving money to people to stop work[ing], what will be the consequences? You'll destroy society, you'll destroy the city, you'll destroy the economy…and it's already happening."
     

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  394. German_reader says:
    @Dmitry
    @German_reader

    Isn't it more surprising in the opposite, how most of the interesting writers were still visiting in the forum? But nowadays I feel we are lacking the pairs of Bashibuzuk/Altan and utu/AaronB. Also Melanf.

    Bashibuzuk/Altan will return soon again hopefully. It's sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.

    Replies: @German_reader

    It’s sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.

    AaronB commented as recently as October in some other thread, so at least he hasn’t been eaten by a bear on one of his camping trips yet.
    utu probably left because he could stand neither myself (“German twat”, and others like Mikel) nor AP (“professional Ukrainian”) anymore. An effect of the war, I suppose. Same is probably true for Melanf.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @German_reader

    Utu didn't seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.

    His favorite person in the forum was Aaronb and he still liked attacking him. Being attacked by Utu is usually an indication of kindness in his view.

    I thought maybe he unhappy with the forum, when A123 was becoming pro-Kremlin, as he has before believed A123 was an Israelibot. Maybe suddenly, he was feeling we are kremlinbots and was less comfortable with us.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    How do you manage to directly search comments by poster? The closest that I can come is to either add someone to "Commenters to Follow" which gives me the last month, or go back and find a comment by them and click on their name.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya, @AP

  395. @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    Such as funding Salafists across the region, exporting its disgruntled youth as terrorists, hacking up journalists or starving Yemen? Sorry, but could you tell me how the House of Saud ever acted in a ‘noble’ way, because I’m completely missing it.
     
    It should have been obvious my comment was specifically referring to the subject sudden_death was describing as a “hissy fit”, that is the 1973 oil embargo. Sudden_death had no trouble understanding this as indicated by his reply to me. You could have grasped that as well had it not been for your tendency towards gawky unpleasantness and dislike for Saudi Arabia.

    Yes Iran has been supportive of Palestine since the Islamic Revolution.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Iran has been supportive of Palestine

    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It’s like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.

    Qatar would be more ambiguous, because I think they give money for some normal infrastructure in the places like Gaza. Also perhaps Iran pays for some development costs in Southern Lebanon.

    Saudi Arabia seems to more fund Lebanon. They pay a lot of the kitsch redevelopment of central Beirut, which was constructed with almost Parisian way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/22/beirut-lebanon-glitzy-downtown-redevelopment-gucci-prada

    They pay for the costs of Lebanon’s army some years.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad.
     
    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran. I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister during the period pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt and threatened an oil cut-off (which the Americans had dismissed as unlikely). Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-extends-term-deposit-egypts-cbank-spa-2022-11-29/

    There’s much to criticize about Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States but Yevardian’s irrational dislike of Arabia and Iran boosterism drives him to deprive them of any credit whatsoever.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @A123
    @Dmitry


    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It’s like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.
     
    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an "education" problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.

    The EU makes nearly as stupid mistakes. Anti-Semitic WEF Elites send NGO's to build illegally in Area C. As soon as the WEF Elites leave, construction with the EU flag on it is torn down as illegal. How can this possibly help the people who actually live in the area?

    The sheer amount of "free" money that is pumped into the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria funds the futile "resistance". If Muslims in Judea & Samaria no longer received handouts, they would have to earn enough to support themselves. There would be more peaceful commerce and less stupidity.

    Tapering UNRWA to zero over 10 years and then disbanding it would be a huge win for reason. The international standard definition for "Refugee" would once again apply. Only UNHCR qualified refugees would receive monthly stipends. There would no longer be "handout camps" in places like Syria and Jordan.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Dmitry

  396. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    It’s sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.
     
    AaronB commented as recently as October in some other thread, so at least he hasn't been eaten by a bear on one of his camping trips yet.
    utu probably left because he could stand neither myself ("German twat", and others like Mikel) nor AP ("professional Ukrainian") anymore. An effect of the war, I suppose. Same is probably true for Melanf.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Barbarossa

    Utu didn’t seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.

    His favorite person in the forum was Aaronb and he still liked attacking him. Being attacked by Utu is usually an indication of kindness in his view.

    I thought maybe he unhappy with the forum, when A123 was becoming pro-Kremlin, as he has before believed A123 was an Israelibot. Maybe suddenly, he was feeling we are kremlinbots and was less comfortable with us.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    Utu didn’t seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.
     
    tbh I think utu became pretty deranged near the end of his commenting here. For someone who always criticized others for supposedly being gullible and not daring to look behind the scenes he was surprisingly gullible himself when it came to the reporting of sources like POLITICO (pretty obviously a US influence operation, its status in Europe tells one everything about the asymmetric nature of the transatlantic relationship). I found it to be a rather disturbing illustration of the effect the Ukrainian war has had on a lot of people.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Matra

  397. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    It’s sad utu/AaronB have not posted since many months earlier this year.
     
    AaronB commented as recently as October in some other thread, so at least he hasn't been eaten by a bear on one of his camping trips yet.
    utu probably left because he could stand neither myself ("German twat", and others like Mikel) nor AP ("professional Ukrainian") anymore. An effect of the war, I suppose. Same is probably true for Melanf.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Barbarossa

    How do you manage to directly search comments by poster? The closest that I can come is to either add someone to “Commenters to Follow” which gives me the last month, or go back and find a comment by them and click on their name.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Barbarossa

    I just googled "Unz review+[commenter's name]" to find a thread where they had commented, so I could click on the name. I guess you can also use UR's internal search function for the same effect.
    Don't know of another way, sorry.

    , @Yahya
    @Barbarossa

    Use TUR’s search function on the top right.

    1. Press on the blue “+” button to expand the bar.
    2. Type in the commenter’s name into the “Commenter?” line item
    3. Just above the “Commenter?” box is another line labeled “Comments?”. Switch that to “Only”
    4. Change the “Sort Results By?” to “Latest First”
    5. Press search.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @AP
    @Barbarossa

    Click on their name. For some reason searching for words they have typed works on a PC but not on an iPhone (unless I haven’t figured it out).

    I’ve been mostly lurking here, rather sporadically. Been busier IRL, plus been following war updates on Twitter and got sucked into commenting there, which is admittedly a stupid thing to do, the quality of commenters and comments can’t compare the ones here (most of you).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

  398. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    How do you manage to directly search comments by poster? The closest that I can come is to either add someone to "Commenters to Follow" which gives me the last month, or go back and find a comment by them and click on their name.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya, @AP

    I just googled “Unz review+[commenter’s name]” to find a thread where they had commented, so I could click on the name. I guess you can also use UR’s internal search function for the same effect.
    Don’t know of another way, sorry.

  399. @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest
     
    No doubt both China and Russia act from self-interest. They would much prefer gradual changes, rather than a catastrophic crash. Rapid crash would hurt them, too. In the short term the market for Russian oil, gas, coal, metals, as well as for “made in China” stuff would shrink dramatically in case of rapid economic downfall of the US and Europe. In the longer term other parts of the world will pick up the slack, but that would take at least five (more likely fifteen) years.

    Their problem is that neither Europe nor the US act from self-interest. Nobody undermined Europe as much as its “leaders”. Nobody undermined the US dollar as much as the US printing press.

    Both Russia and China act cautiously, trying to repair the cart without upsetting it. It’s in the best interest of the West to ensure that neither Russia nor China gives up on it. But the West is doing its damnedest to force them both to give up and reformat the world totally ignoring it. This would be a painful scenario, although 4/5th of the world would cheer it loudly (travelling to many countries you discover a frighteningly widespread hatred of the West).

    Replies: @songbird

    But the West is doing its damnedest to force them both to give up and reformat the world totally ignoring it.

    It’s not really possible to ignore the US. It’s the elephant in the room, even for China. And it will leave its own stamp on the world, even in the best case scenario for multipolarity.

    Its geography is so rare and providential. Some might say that the US is the ultimate case of geodeterminism, as it was early written into US history, with independence vs. Canada, and then with slavery, and after with the victory of the more industrial North, with its egalitarian ideas. Its high standard of living, and the social rot that it encouraged. And, finally, now, with the US using its fantastic, peerless ports, facing both the Atlantic and Pacific to export its dominant ideology, over as much of the world as it can.

    [MORE]

    Their problem is that neither Europe nor the US act from self-interest. Nobody undermined Europe as much as its “leaders”.

    the leader of El Salvador has made this point recently pretty eloquently about the US. When a guy like that is calling out urban rot and social decay, then you know it is bad.

    “The demise of the U.S. has to come from within. No external enemy can cause this much damage,” Bukele said. “When you’re watching internal operations here you can see cities that were pristinely beautiful 30 years ago [and] are a wasteland right now.”

    “I mean, I’m from El Salvador, a third-world country in Central America, and I myself see cities here and say I wouldn’t live here. That would be unthinkable three decades ago, that a Salvadoran wouldn’t want to live in a U.S. main city,” he told Carlson, pointing to cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York and Chicago, where he said he would fear for his safety.

    “When you look how the cities are eroding so fast, this has to be by design. I mean who would make so many stupid decisions?” Bukele asked. “They’re literally giving some people drugs in some us cities, or they say we’re going to give you money if you don’t work. They make all these laws that make no sense. If they have high crime, they say okay I have a solution, let’s defund the police.”

    “They make these decisions openly,” he continued. “It’s not even [a] secret and we all know what will be the consequences of it. The defunding of the police, allowing shoplifting, giving drugs to drug addicts, giving money to people to stop work[ing], what will be the consequences? You’ll destroy society, you’ll destroy the city, you’ll destroy the economy…and it’s already happening.”

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    It’s not really possible to ignore the US. It’s the elephant in the room
     
    That’s what I thought just two years ago. Raging inflation under current regime seriously weakened this belief (the official figures are pure bunkum). Today most of the US power is based on the value of the US dollar. Now it is mostly backed not by what the US government owns, but by the commodities of other countries, including oil. This is a very shaky foundation. Besides, there is no realistic prospect of the US paying off its national debt without dropping the value of the USD to 10-20% of what it is now. By wanton deficit spending the US elites, intendedly or not, keep undermining the USD. Weaponization of the USD by the US government prompted others to switch to dollar-free trade, which further undermines the standing of the US currency. If current trends continue, the value of the dollar is going to drop precipitously, which would have catastrophic consequences for the living standards in the country. That in turn would destroy social stability. No level of police brutality can possibly stop hungry crowds. I don’t necessarily think that the president of Salvador is a trustworthy authority, but looking from within I am no longer sure that the US will be livable ten years from now. When lots of people go hungry, BLM thuggery would seem like a minor thing.

    I agree that the US has a lot of potential. Unfortunately, much of this potential has been already wasted due to insane policies, foreign and domestic, and blinding greed of the corporations that shifted production to other countries. The US is a giant, but its elites made it a giant with feet of clay. Current increasingly desperate and misguided US attempts to preserve its dominance remind me of a 70-year old mounting a young woman: a very likely outcome will be fatal heart attack or stroke of the old fart.

    Having invested 30+ of my most productive years into this country, I don’t want the US to crash. But it’s a “democracy”, so that ordinary people, myself included, have no say in anything important. No matter how much I would like to, I cannot do anything to prevent the downfall.
  400. German_reader says:
    @Dmitry
    @German_reader

    Utu didn't seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.

    His favorite person in the forum was Aaronb and he still liked attacking him. Being attacked by Utu is usually an indication of kindness in his view.

    I thought maybe he unhappy with the forum, when A123 was becoming pro-Kremlin, as he has before believed A123 was an Israelibot. Maybe suddenly, he was feeling we are kremlinbots and was less comfortable with us.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Utu didn’t seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.

    tbh I think utu became pretty deranged near the end of his commenting here. For someone who always criticized others for supposedly being gullible and not daring to look behind the scenes he was surprisingly gullible himself when it came to the reporting of sources like POLITICO (pretty obviously a US influence operation, its status in Europe tells one everything about the asymmetric nature of the transatlantic relationship). I found it to be a rather disturbing illustration of the effect the Ukrainian war has had on a lot of people.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @German_reader

    I think you were also insulting utu fairly frequently towards the end (iirc calling him a “mental case”, “a lunatic”, “absurdly stupid”, “deeply pathetic”, and my favorite “imbecile who should have been locked away in a institutional cell”) so that must have influenced his decision to retire. It’s also plausible he may have died of old age or of certain maladies, given his age; in which Rest In Peace.

    War tends to generate hysteria. H.L. Mencken noticed the profound effect WW1 had on a number British authors. That’s probably where Kipling got his line about “keeping your head when all about you are losing theirs”).

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Matra
    @German_reader

    I think he claimed the trucker protest in Canada against vaccine mandates was in part a Russian psyop heavily influenced by RT. (He linked to some site which had laughable claims regarding RT's influence in Canadian society. Even the Canadian state funded news channel has few viewers, mostly the elderly, despite being available in most households, unlike RT). The Cold War experience with Russians has seriously distorted the worldviews of many Eastern Europeans.

  401. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    How do you manage to directly search comments by poster? The closest that I can come is to either add someone to "Commenters to Follow" which gives me the last month, or go back and find a comment by them and click on their name.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya, @AP

    Use TUR’s search function on the top right.

    1. Press on the blue “+” button to expand the bar.
    2. Type in the commenter’s name into the “Commenter?” line item
    3. Just above the “Commenter?” box is another line labeled “Comments?”. Switch that to “Only”
    4. Change the “Sort Results By?” to “Latest First”
    5. Press search.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    Thanks, this makes more sense. I was going to the "Comments" button under "More" trying to find a way to search, which wasn't very useful.

    Though I still can't pull up anything that way. I've tried a few commenter monikers and they all come up as "No Results Found". I'll try it on the home laptop too to see if there is an issue on my end.

    Replies: @Yahya

  402. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    Utu didn’t seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.
     
    tbh I think utu became pretty deranged near the end of his commenting here. For someone who always criticized others for supposedly being gullible and not daring to look behind the scenes he was surprisingly gullible himself when it came to the reporting of sources like POLITICO (pretty obviously a US influence operation, its status in Europe tells one everything about the asymmetric nature of the transatlantic relationship). I found it to be a rather disturbing illustration of the effect the Ukrainian war has had on a lot of people.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Matra

    I think you were also insulting utu fairly frequently towards the end (iirc calling him a “mental case”, “a lunatic”, “absurdly stupid”, “deeply pathetic”, and my favorite “imbecile who should have been locked away in a institutional cell”) so that must have influenced his decision to retire. It’s also plausible he may have died of old age or of certain maladies, given his age; in which Rest In Peace.

    War tends to generate hysteria. H.L. Mencken noticed the profound effect WW1 had on a number British authors. That’s probably where Kipling got his line about “keeping your head when all about you are losing theirs”).

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya


    It’s also plausible he may have died of old age or of certain maladies, given his age; in which Rest In Peace.
     
    The last thing I can recall is he wrote something very close to "I hate all of you despicable assholes leaving now and will never return."

    The Battle of the Nations' Mercenaries Quarters are here:

    Netherlands Argentina; Croatia Brazil; England France; Morocco Portugal. If I find myself in a cheering role during the next few days I will be cheering for the team with the fewest negroes.
  403. @Yahya
    @German_reader

    I think you were also insulting utu fairly frequently towards the end (iirc calling him a “mental case”, “a lunatic”, “absurdly stupid”, “deeply pathetic”, and my favorite “imbecile who should have been locked away in a institutional cell”) so that must have influenced his decision to retire. It’s also plausible he may have died of old age or of certain maladies, given his age; in which Rest In Peace.

    War tends to generate hysteria. H.L. Mencken noticed the profound effect WW1 had on a number British authors. That’s probably where Kipling got his line about “keeping your head when all about you are losing theirs”).

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    It’s also plausible he may have died of old age or of certain maladies, given his age; in which Rest In Peace.

    The last thing I can recall is he wrote something very close to “I hate all of you despicable assholes leaving now and will never return.”

    The Battle of the Nations’ Mercenaries Quarters are here:

    Netherlands Argentina; Croatia Brazil; England France; Morocco Portugal. If I find myself in a cheering role during the next few days I will be cheering for the team with the fewest negroes.

    • Disagree: Yahya
  404. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Iran has been supportive of Palestine
     
    It's not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It's like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.

    Qatar would be more ambiguous, because I think they give money for some normal infrastructure in the places like Gaza. Also perhaps Iran pays for some development costs in Southern Lebanon.

    Saudi Arabia seems to more fund Lebanon. They pay a lot of the kitsch redevelopment of central Beirut, which was constructed with almost Parisian way.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/22/1421931944570/4e271cf0-64c7-454b-be87-00e7f206fe42-2060x1373.jpeg


    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/22/beirut-lebanon-glitzy-downtown-redevelopment-gucci-prada

    They pay for the costs of Lebanon's army some years.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad.

    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran. I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister during the period pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt and threatened an oil cut-off (which the Americans had dismissed as unlikely). Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-extends-term-deposit-egypts-cbank-spa-2022-11-29/

    There’s much to criticize about Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States but Yevardian’s irrational dislike of Arabia and Iran boosterism drives him to deprive them of any credit whatsoever.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    me is praiseworthy
     
    From the point of automobile aesthetics, it is a very sad consequence (from the point of view of the environment, the increase in price of oil was not bad of course).

    There are some very good reports on YouTube. You can see the directly how it killed the classic epoch of American automobiles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaNhx71XB8


    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt
     
    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut? My impression, is this kind of superficial Parisian Disneyland for wealthy tourists, can be anti-example of how your rebuild an ancient city.

    Yevardian’s irrational dislike of Arabia and Iran boosterism
     

    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

    Saudi Arabia do not seem to create that. And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers. Maybe Al Jazeera was too mainstream or prestigious to be consumed by the more alternative media viewers.

    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western "traditionalists".

    Royal family has feudal power. Women cannot drive cars. Government pays for everyone. Opponents of royal family are executed with a sword. Wealthy men have multiple wives.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle, driving large SUVs, eating large cuts of meat with your family. The main health challenge arriving now is American kind of obesity.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument. Probably better national policy for Middle Eastern countries is to stay in your island, avoid contact too much with the Westerners and hope to avoided more like the Sentinelese.

    Replies: @Yahya

  405. @songbird
    @AnonfromTN


    But the West is doing its damnedest to force them both to give up and reformat the world totally ignoring it.
     
    It's not really possible to ignore the US. It's the elephant in the room, even for China. And it will leave its own stamp on the world, even in the best case scenario for multipolarity.

    Its geography is so rare and providential. Some might say that the US is the ultimate case of geodeterminism, as it was early written into US history, with independence vs. Canada, and then with slavery, and after with the victory of the more industrial North, with its egalitarian ideas. Its high standard of living, and the social rot that it encouraged. And, finally, now, with the US using its fantastic, peerless ports, facing both the Atlantic and Pacific to export its dominant ideology, over as much of the world as it can.

    Their problem is that neither Europe nor the US act from self-interest. Nobody undermined Europe as much as its “leaders”.
     
    the leader of El Salvador has made this point recently pretty eloquently about the US. When a guy like that is calling out urban rot and social decay, then you know it is bad.


    "The demise of the U.S. has to come from within. No external enemy can cause this much damage," Bukele said. "When you're watching internal operations here you can see cities that were pristinely beautiful 30 years ago [and] are a wasteland right now."

    "I mean, I'm from El Salvador, a third-world country in Central America, and I myself see cities here and say I wouldn't live here. That would be unthinkable three decades ago, that a Salvadoran wouldn't want to live in a U.S. main city," he told Carlson, pointing to cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Baltimore, New York and Chicago, where he said he would fear for his safety.

    "When you look how the cities are eroding so fast, this has to be by design. I mean who would make so many stupid decisions?" Bukele asked. "They're literally giving some people drugs in some us cities, or they say we're going to give you money if you don't work. They make all these laws that make no sense. If they have high crime, they say okay I have a solution, let's defund the police."

    "They make these decisions openly," he continued. "It's not even [a] secret and we all know what will be the consequences of it. The defunding of the police, allowing shoplifting, giving drugs to drug addicts, giving money to people to stop work[ing], what will be the consequences? You'll destroy society, you'll destroy the city, you'll destroy the economy…and it's already happening."
     

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    It’s not really possible to ignore the US. It’s the elephant in the room

    That’s what I thought just two years ago. Raging inflation under current regime seriously weakened this belief (the official figures are pure bunkum). Today most of the US power is based on the value of the US dollar. Now it is mostly backed not by what the US government owns, but by the commodities of other countries, including oil. This is a very shaky foundation. Besides, there is no realistic prospect of the US paying off its national debt without dropping the value of the USD to 10-20% of what it is now. By wanton deficit spending the US elites, intendedly or not, keep undermining the USD. Weaponization of the USD by the US government prompted others to switch to dollar-free trade, which further undermines the standing of the US currency. If current trends continue, the value of the dollar is going to drop precipitously, which would have catastrophic consequences for the living standards in the country. That in turn would destroy social stability. No level of police brutality can possibly stop hungry crowds. I don’t necessarily think that the president of Salvador is a trustworthy authority, but looking from within I am no longer sure that the US will be livable ten years from now. When lots of people go hungry, BLM thuggery would seem like a minor thing.

    I agree that the US has a lot of potential. Unfortunately, much of this potential has been already wasted due to insane policies, foreign and domestic, and blinding greed of the corporations that shifted production to other countries. The US is a giant, but its elites made it a giant with feet of clay. Current increasingly desperate and misguided US attempts to preserve its dominance remind me of a 70-year old mounting a young woman: a very likely outcome will be fatal heart attack or stroke of the old fart.

    Having invested 30+ of my most productive years into this country, I don’t want the US to crash. But it’s a “democracy”, so that ordinary people, myself included, have no say in anything important. No matter how much I would like to, I cannot do anything to prevent the downfall.

  406. @Yahya
    @Barbarossa

    Use TUR’s search function on the top right.

    1. Press on the blue “+” button to expand the bar.
    2. Type in the commenter’s name into the “Commenter?” line item
    3. Just above the “Commenter?” box is another line labeled “Comments?”. Switch that to “Only”
    4. Change the “Sort Results By?” to “Latest First”
    5. Press search.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Thanks, this makes more sense. I was going to the “Comments” button under “More” trying to find a way to search, which wasn’t very useful.

    Though I still can’t pull up anything that way. I’ve tried a few commenter monikers and they all come up as “No Results Found”. I’ll try it on the home laptop too to see if there is an issue on my end.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Barbarossa

    Forgot to mention: you should add a random letter like “a” to the search bar at the top before pressing the search button. The search engine will turn out “No Results Found” if the bar is empty.

  407. @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    Thanks, this makes more sense. I was going to the "Comments" button under "More" trying to find a way to search, which wasn't very useful.

    Though I still can't pull up anything that way. I've tried a few commenter monikers and they all come up as "No Results Found". I'll try it on the home laptop too to see if there is an issue on my end.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Forgot to mention: you should add a random letter like “a” to the search bar at the top before pressing the search button. The search engine will turn out “No Results Found” if the bar is empty.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
  408. @Barbarossa
    @German_reader

    How do you manage to directly search comments by poster? The closest that I can come is to either add someone to "Commenters to Follow" which gives me the last month, or go back and find a comment by them and click on their name.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Yahya, @AP

    Click on their name. For some reason searching for words they have typed works on a PC but not on an iPhone (unless I haven’t figured it out).

    I’ve been mostly lurking here, rather sporadically. Been busier IRL, plus been following war updates on Twitter and got sucked into commenting there, which is admittedly a stupid thing to do, the quality of commenters and comments can’t compare the ones here (most of you).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    I'm glad to see that you're back. I was beginning to think that maybe Beckow had somehow neutralized you. I think that even Dmitry will now converse with you in a warmer manner? :-)

    , @Barbarossa
    @AP

    Thanks, that is the simplest, but sometimes it's hard to find a recent comment by an inactive commenter.

    Agree on Twitter too. It seems like very stupid level comments (even if some of the posts are worthwhile).

    Replies: @A123, @AP

  409. @AP
    @Barbarossa

    Click on their name. For some reason searching for words they have typed works on a PC but not on an iPhone (unless I haven’t figured it out).

    I’ve been mostly lurking here, rather sporadically. Been busier IRL, plus been following war updates on Twitter and got sucked into commenting there, which is admittedly a stupid thing to do, the quality of commenters and comments can’t compare the ones here (most of you).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    I’m glad to see that you’re back. I was beginning to think that maybe Beckow had somehow neutralized you. I think that even Dmitry will now converse with you in a warmer manner? 🙂

    • Thanks: AP
  410. @German_reader
    @Yahya


    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous etc. are till lurking around, perhaps they would let us know.
     
    I very much doubt it for reiner tor, I suppose he's busy with private matters, maybe also feels despair at the international situation. I might try sending him an email at the end of this year, though I suppose he's got his reasons for having "disappeared", which one should respect. Still a pity, one of the best commenters here.

    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    LOL.

    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    I might post a list of books read this year at year's end, with short comments about whether I'd recommend them or not. Can't think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can't be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:

    I feel a kindred identity with Hanania, similar family background and outlook I suppose. I like his sense of humour and light attitude towards things.
    Didn’t Hanania rarely comment on Karlin’s threads here? Though perhaps I’m misremembering that. Hanania has written some very good substack articles on American Conservatism as a loser movement recently. I try to any avoid culture-wars commentary whether I agree or not (getting stuck in the mud of this mostly killed Quillete‘s interest for me), but I thought he had some real insights in looking at root causes.
    His article on ‘Woke Instituations is Just Civil Rights’ Law I personally found a great source for optimism about the future, though others might interpret his conclusions differently.

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/conservatism-as-an-oppositional-culture

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/woke-institutions-is-just-civil-rights

    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics

    Karlin quitting this site a few months before the Russian-Ukrainian War resumed/massively-escalated was unfortunate timing. Frankly I’d always found the endless spats that eventually ended every AK thread going years back tiresome and always scrolled over them.

    I might post a list of books read this year at year’s end, with short comments about whether I’d recommend them or not. Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    Do that, I’d be interested in reading it. I might do the same around year’s end as a longpost and then seriously try quitting commenting online as a new year’s resolution.. which practically jinxes chance of that succeeding.
    Worth noting the posters that permanently disappeared never announced anything. I think the internal rule is, if you still feel invested enough in a forum that you still feel any need to tell that you’re quitting posting, you probably aren’t going to leave.

    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran.

    Sorry, my response came off a little rude. I did not mean my comment as an endorsement of Iran regardless. It was simply a factual observation that Iran is now the only Middle-Eastern state that still seriously opposes Israeli foreign and domestic policies.

    I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister of the time pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt. Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)

    I understood you were referring originally to 1973 embargo. I just disagree that it was taken for any altruistic motive… its hardly any secret that all OPEC members benefited massively from it.
    I think the risk KSA and others took is very overstated, it happened at time when the USSR’s influence in the Middle-East was still very strong. Any anti-monarchical feeling the Middle-East then also invariably took a Marxist orientation, the Americans would have been well aware of this.

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:

    I’m sure that Saudi ‘aid’ is also an extremely poisoned chalice, associated with massive handouts to various Salafist organisations and ‘charities’. Particularly worrisome is the way Saudi funding/subsidising of bogus scriptural ‘education’ abroad captures the minds of the poor, with its disastrous long-term effects now well attested in Pakistan and Indonesia.

    Anyway, Iran’s government is nasty and domestically idiotic with its theocratic policies, but it at least tries to build long-term client relationships based on shared interests. Israel and KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East’s natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yevardian


    KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East’s natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.
     
    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this. They look down Persian Shias. Recognizing them as having hegemonic potential? That seem highly implausible. They are deeply worried about sociopath Khamenei's nuclear weapons program. However, almost every nation in the region is concerned about that potential cataclysm.

    The actual screw up was much more inward focused. The Saudis had uppity Whabbis at home, could not collect and chop them, and thus got them out of the picture by other means. They gave the Whabbis money and send them elsewhere. The English monarchy made this exact mistake with William Penn and his Quakers. The well funded international Whabbis slipped their leash and ran amuck.

    MbS is trying to fix the problem created several leaders ago. Unfortunately, Whabbi nutters managed to move a great deal of money out of Saudi reach before the door shut.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    His article on ‘Woke Instituations is Just Civil Rights’ Law I personally found a great source for optimism about the future, though others might interpret his conclusions differently.
     
    Yes Hanania’s takes are always interesting to read and well thought-out, I particularly liked his recent review of Heinrich’s book and the article on the Ukraine conflict. I was impressed with how analytical, multi-dimensional and rigorous he was in his thinking. Adam Tooze and Razib Khan are likewise two excellent writers and thinkers who merit a Substack subscription. The latter is my favorite though as he covers genetic and historical subjects which I’m most interested in. But all three work wonderfully towards providing a realistic picture of the world; Hanania covers the political, Tooze the economic and Khan the historical.

    I also mentioned Ed West in one of my comments above, he is likewise a remarkably sane and and intellectually honest writer, worth a subscription even for non-British readers like me. He always has something interesting to say, though his Substack does tilt towards British politics a bit too much.

    All of the above except for perhaps Tooze lean to the right on the Western political spectrum. I’d be interested if anyone can recommend a sane and intelligent leftist (rare as they are, they probably do exist, Orwell was one good example of one such).


    KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East’s natural hegemons
     
    For a long period during the 20th century Egypt was seen as the natural leader of the Arab world, including it’s Middle Eastern portion. Queen Fawzia of Egypt in 1945 left her husband the Shah of Iran and went back to Egypt, refusing the Shah’s pleas to return to Tehran, a city she viewed as being primitive and boring compared to Cairo and Alexandria at the time.

    Turkey seems to be relying on aid from Gulf States now to keep their economy afloat Egypt-style.

    https://english.alarabiya.net/News/gulf/2022/11/25/Turkey-in-final-stage-talks-for-up-to-10-billion-funding-from-Qatar-Report

    I think your view of Saudi Arabia is uncharitable but we will just have to disagree on the issue. I could be biased after all.

  411. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    You are projecting.

    For any nomad soul with a gleaner mentality the USA cannot be beat. If you want to live like a Russian mobster there's plenty of places just as good. Would you like to live like a Russian mobster? Doesn't seem that appealing to most of us.

    Now I cannot escape the image of Karlin being a real G.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Me live like a “Russian mobster”? You have an interesting composite of my personality that I never realized that I exhibited. Please tell me more?….

    Finally, the real “Mr. Hack” undressed. 🙂

  412. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Iran has been supportive of Palestine
     
    It's not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It's like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.

    Qatar would be more ambiguous, because I think they give money for some normal infrastructure in the places like Gaza. Also perhaps Iran pays for some development costs in Southern Lebanon.

    Saudi Arabia seems to more fund Lebanon. They pay a lot of the kitsch redevelopment of central Beirut, which was constructed with almost Parisian way.

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/22/1421931944570/4e271cf0-64c7-454b-be87-00e7f206fe42-2060x1373.jpeg


    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/22/beirut-lebanon-glitzy-downtown-redevelopment-gucci-prada

    They pay for the costs of Lebanon's army some years.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It’s like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.

    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an “education” problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.

    The EU makes nearly as stupid mistakes. Anti-Semitic WEF Elites send NGO’s to build illegally in Area C. As soon as the WEF Elites leave, construction with the EU flag on it is torn down as illegal. How can this possibly help the people who actually live in the area?

    The sheer amount of “free” money that is pumped into the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria funds the futile “resistance”. If Muslims in Judea & Samaria no longer received handouts, they would have to earn enough to support themselves. There would be more peaceful commerce and less stupidity.

    Tapering UNRWA to zero over 10 years and then disbanding it would be a huge win for reason. The international standard definition for “Refugee” would once again apply. Only UNHCR qualified refugees would receive monthly stipends. There would no longer be “handout camps” in places like Syria and Jordan.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @A123


    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an “education” problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.
     
    Shabak, the Israeli internal security service, quietly subsidised Hamas for years as a weapon against the PLO and PFLP. Later, when Hamas or similar forces take over, Israeli PR war becomes much easier against a bunch of Islamists, rather than conventional nationalist leaders.
    There's the added bonus that the former are usually far more incompetetent too.

    the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria
     
    LOL

    Replies: @A123

    , @Dmitry
    @A123


    Funding violence.. makes things worse
     
    Surely, if you give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad, only if you don't worry about reducing life opportunities of millions of Palestinians, for your military or political objective. But why would Iran's government worry. Their objective is to control the Arab world, not to improve some randomized poor Sunni civilians' life. It's the same politicians who were bombing Arab cities in the 1980s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Cities).

    But historically there were Sunni Arab governments that funded suicide bombers in Israel, for example Saudi Arabia was paying money to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. This was in 2000s. https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-06.htm So the religious or ethnic divide is not the only explanation.

    Overall, although in relation to Saudi Arabia, the wider component of Arab-Israel war had moderated since the later 1980s already. You can see in the Israel's defense budget which falls about 5 times since. Also the lifestyle of Israel has become a lot less militaristic compared to then. It became much less of a military zone for most of the time.

    Replies: @A123

  413. @A123
    @Dmitry


    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It’s like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.
     
    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an "education" problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.

    The EU makes nearly as stupid mistakes. Anti-Semitic WEF Elites send NGO's to build illegally in Area C. As soon as the WEF Elites leave, construction with the EU flag on it is torn down as illegal. How can this possibly help the people who actually live in the area?

    The sheer amount of "free" money that is pumped into the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria funds the futile "resistance". If Muslims in Judea & Samaria no longer received handouts, they would have to earn enough to support themselves. There would be more peaceful commerce and less stupidity.

    Tapering UNRWA to zero over 10 years and then disbanding it would be a huge win for reason. The international standard definition for "Refugee" would once again apply. Only UNHCR qualified refugees would receive monthly stipends. There would no longer be "handout camps" in places like Syria and Jordan.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Dmitry

    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an “education” problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.

    Shabak, the Israeli internal security service, quietly subsidised Hamas for years as a weapon against the PLO and PFLP. Later, when Hamas or similar forces take over, Israeli PR war becomes much easier against a bunch of Islamists, rather than conventional nationalist leaders.
    There’s the added bonus that the former are usually far more incompetetent too.

    the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria

    LOL

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yevardian

    Iran is the #1 source of funds for Hamas today. UNRWA is #2.

    Attempting to divert from these facts didn't work. I give you the #OMGEpicFail award for pathetic, transparent, and feeble Taqiyya diversion.
    ____

    Did the Israeli government make mistakes 40+ Years ago.... Of course. That does not change the facts on the ground today. Iranian al'Hamas is exclusively an Iranian proxy. No other national government is even vaguely close in terms of influence. As a twofer, Palestinian Iranian Jihad [PIJ] is another Iranian proxy on Gaza.

    Instead of trying to suborn the discussion with obsolete and irrelevant tales. Why not focus on the real harm Iran is inflicting on the civilians of Gaza every day? Is it because you enjoy the suffering of Gaza children? You want to see more generations lost?

    There is no way to fix the fresh water supply that Iranian al'Hamas unilaterally destroyed.

    PEACE 😇

  414. @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    @Yahya


    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    I feel a kindred identity with Hanania, similar family background and outlook I suppose. I like his sense of humour and light attitude towards things.
    Didn't Hanania rarely comment on Karlin's threads here? Though perhaps I'm misremembering that. Hanania has written some very good substack articles on American Conservatism as a loser movement recently. I try to any avoid culture-wars commentary whether I agree or not (getting stuck in the mud of this mostly killed Quillete's interest for me), but I thought he had some real insights in looking at root causes.
    His article on 'Woke Instituations is Just Civil Rights' Law I personally found a great source for optimism about the future, though others might interpret his conclusions differently.

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/conservatism-as-an-oppositional-culture

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/woke-institutions-is-just-civil-rights


    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    Karlin quitting this site a few months before the Russian-Ukrainian War resumed/massively-escalated was unfortunate timing. Frankly I'd always found the endless spats that eventually ended every AK thread going years back tiresome and always scrolled over them.

    I might post a list of books read this year at year’s end, with short comments about whether I’d recommend them or not. Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.
     
    Do that, I'd be interested in reading it. I might do the same around year's end as a longpost and then seriously try quitting commenting online as a new year's resolution.. which practically jinxes chance of that succeeding.
    Worth noting the posters that permanently disappeared never announced anything. I think the internal rule is, if you still feel invested enough in a forum that you still feel any need to tell that you're quitting posting, you probably aren't going to leave.

    @Yahya


    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran.
     
    Sorry, my response came off a little rude. I did not mean my comment as an endorsement of Iran regardless. It was simply a factual observation that Iran is now the only Middle-Eastern state that still seriously opposes Israeli foreign and domestic policies.

    I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister of the time pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt. Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)
     
    I understood you were referring originally to 1973 embargo. I just disagree that it was taken for any altruistic motive... its hardly any secret that all OPEC members benefited massively from it.
    I think the risk KSA and others took is very overstated, it happened at time when the USSR's influence in the Middle-East was still very strong. Any anti-monarchical feeling the Middle-East then also invariably took a Marxist orientation, the Americans would have been well aware of this.

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:
     
    I'm sure that Saudi 'aid' is also an extremely poisoned chalice, associated with massive handouts to various Salafist organisations and 'charities'. Particularly worrisome is the way Saudi funding/subsidising of bogus scriptural 'education' abroad captures the minds of the poor, with its disastrous long-term effects now well attested in Pakistan and Indonesia.

    Anyway, Iran's government is nasty and domestically idiotic with its theocratic policies, but it at least tries to build long-term client relationships based on shared interests. Israel and KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East's natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East’s natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.

    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this. They look down Persian Shias. Recognizing them as having hegemonic potential? That seem highly implausible. They are deeply worried about sociopath Khamenei’s nuclear weapons program. However, almost every nation in the region is concerned about that potential cataclysm.

    The actual screw up was much more inward focused. The Saudis had uppity Whabbis at home, could not collect and chop them, and thus got them out of the picture by other means. They gave the Whabbis money and send them elsewhere. The English monarchy made this exact mistake with William Penn and his Quakers. The well funded international Whabbis slipped their leash and ran amuck.

    MbS is trying to fix the problem created several leaders ago. Unfortunately, Whabbi nutters managed to move a great deal of money out of Saudi reach before the door shut.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this.
     
    Care to explain how come ISIS is using exact same way of capital punishment as KSA: chopping the head off with a curved scimitar?

    MbS is trying to fix the problem created several leaders ago.
     
    Was butchering Khashoggi by his security thugs part of this problem fixing?

    Replies: @A123

  415. @A123
    @Yevardian


    KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East’s natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.
     
    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this. They look down Persian Shias. Recognizing them as having hegemonic potential? That seem highly implausible. They are deeply worried about sociopath Khamenei's nuclear weapons program. However, almost every nation in the region is concerned about that potential cataclysm.

    The actual screw up was much more inward focused. The Saudis had uppity Whabbis at home, could not collect and chop them, and thus got them out of the picture by other means. They gave the Whabbis money and send them elsewhere. The English monarchy made this exact mistake with William Penn and his Quakers. The well funded international Whabbis slipped their leash and ran amuck.

    MbS is trying to fix the problem created several leaders ago. Unfortunately, Whabbi nutters managed to move a great deal of money out of Saudi reach before the door shut.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this.

    Care to explain how come ISIS is using exact same way of capital punishment as KSA: chopping the head off with a curved scimitar?

    MbS is trying to fix the problem created several leaders ago.

    Was butchering Khashoggi by his security thugs part of this problem fixing?

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN



    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this.
    ...
    The Saudis had uppity Whabbis at home, could not collect and chop them,
     
    Care to explain how come ISIS is using exact same way of capital punishment as KSA: chopping the head off with a curved scimitar?
     
    Some of the Whabbis were close to the monarchy, including some relatives of the distaff lines. This is why even careful pruning could have caused the Royal family to schism.

    The reason why Whabbi extremists use a perversion of Royal customs is... They are bastards... and, not in the potentially good Jon Snow sense. They ape royal customs without even vague understanding about what it means to rule.
    ___

    MbS acts like Putin and you complain? Getting rid of reporters is fairly standard in authoritarian countries. (1)

    The NBC news correspondent who reported that Paul Pelosi may have not been in immediate danger when police arrived at the house remains absent from the network.

    Miguel Almaguer was a regular fixture on NBC's "Today" and "NBC Nightly News," but ever since his revelatory report on November 4 was inexplicably retracted by the network, the Los Angeles-based correspondent has seemingly disappeared, according to Fox News.

    https://mr.cdn.ignitecdn.com/client_assets/thepostmillennial_com/media/picture/6386/7961/1b45/550e/6bb6/09ce/original_paul_pelosi.jpg

     

    I would humbly suggest getting control of your FBI before besmirching the Saudis.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thepostmillennial.com/star-reporter-still-missing-from-nbc-after-reporting-on-paul-pelosi


    https://rumble.com/embed/v1w0ul6/
  416. @Yevardian
    @A123


    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an “education” problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.
     
    Shabak, the Israeli internal security service, quietly subsidised Hamas for years as a weapon against the PLO and PFLP. Later, when Hamas or similar forces take over, Israeli PR war becomes much easier against a bunch of Islamists, rather than conventional nationalist leaders.
    There's the added bonus that the former are usually far more incompetetent too.

    the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria
     
    LOL

    Replies: @A123

    Iran is the #1 source of funds for Hamas today. UNRWA is #2.

    Attempting to divert from these facts didn’t work. I give you the #OMGEpicFail award for pathetic, transparent, and feeble Taqiyya diversion.
    ____

    Did the Israeli government make mistakes 40+ Years ago…. Of course. That does not change the facts on the ground today. Iranian al’Hamas is exclusively an Iranian proxy. No other national government is even vaguely close in terms of influence. As a twofer, Palestinian Iranian Jihad [PIJ] is another Iranian proxy on Gaza.

    Instead of trying to suborn the discussion with obsolete and irrelevant tales. Why not focus on the real harm Iran is inflicting on the civilians of Gaza every day? Is it because you enjoy the suffering of Gaza children? You want to see more generations lost?

    There is no way to fix the fresh water supply that Iranian al’Hamas unilaterally destroyed.

    PEACE 😇

  417. @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    @Yahya


    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    I feel a kindred identity with Hanania, similar family background and outlook I suppose. I like his sense of humour and light attitude towards things.
    Didn't Hanania rarely comment on Karlin's threads here? Though perhaps I'm misremembering that. Hanania has written some very good substack articles on American Conservatism as a loser movement recently. I try to any avoid culture-wars commentary whether I agree or not (getting stuck in the mud of this mostly killed Quillete's interest for me), but I thought he had some real insights in looking at root causes.
    His article on 'Woke Instituations is Just Civil Rights' Law I personally found a great source for optimism about the future, though others might interpret his conclusions differently.

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/conservatism-as-an-oppositional-culture

    https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/woke-institutions-is-just-civil-rights


    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    Karlin quitting this site a few months before the Russian-Ukrainian War resumed/massively-escalated was unfortunate timing. Frankly I'd always found the endless spats that eventually ended every AK thread going years back tiresome and always scrolled over them.

    I might post a list of books read this year at year’s end, with short comments about whether I’d recommend them or not. Can’t think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can’t be helped. It had a good run in any case.
     
    Do that, I'd be interested in reading it. I might do the same around year's end as a longpost and then seriously try quitting commenting online as a new year's resolution.. which practically jinxes chance of that succeeding.
    Worth noting the posters that permanently disappeared never announced anything. I think the internal rule is, if you still feel invested enough in a forum that you still feel any need to tell that you're quitting posting, you probably aren't going to leave.

    @Yahya


    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran.
     
    Sorry, my response came off a little rude. I did not mean my comment as an endorsement of Iran regardless. It was simply a factual observation that Iran is now the only Middle-Eastern state that still seriously opposes Israeli foreign and domestic policies.

    I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister of the time pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt. Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)
     
    I understood you were referring originally to 1973 embargo. I just disagree that it was taken for any altruistic motive... its hardly any secret that all OPEC members benefited massively from it.
    I think the risk KSA and others took is very overstated, it happened at time when the USSR's influence in the Middle-East was still very strong. Any anti-monarchical feeling the Middle-East then also invariably took a Marxist orientation, the Americans would have been well aware of this.

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:
     
    I'm sure that Saudi 'aid' is also an extremely poisoned chalice, associated with massive handouts to various Salafist organisations and 'charities'. Particularly worrisome is the way Saudi funding/subsidising of bogus scriptural 'education' abroad captures the minds of the poor, with its disastrous long-term effects now well attested in Pakistan and Indonesia.

    Anyway, Iran's government is nasty and domestically idiotic with its theocratic policies, but it at least tries to build long-term client relationships based on shared interests. Israel and KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East's natural hegemons, so both Israel and KSA know the only way to maintain their favourable current position is to simply set the entire region on fire by funding ISIS-like groups with plausible deniability.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    His article on ‘Woke Instituations is Just Civil Rights’ Law I personally found a great source for optimism about the future, though others might interpret his conclusions differently.

    Yes Hanania’s takes are always interesting to read and well thought-out, I particularly liked his recent review of Heinrich’s book and the article on the Ukraine conflict. I was impressed with how analytical, multi-dimensional and rigorous he was in his thinking. Adam Tooze and Razib Khan are likewise two excellent writers and thinkers who merit a Substack subscription. The latter is my favorite though as he covers genetic and historical subjects which I’m most interested in. But all three work wonderfully towards providing a realistic picture of the world; Hanania covers the political, Tooze the economic and Khan the historical.

    I also mentioned Ed West in one of my comments above, he is likewise a remarkably sane and and intellectually honest writer, worth a subscription even for non-British readers like me. He always has something interesting to say, though his Substack does tilt towards British politics a bit too much.

    All of the above except for perhaps Tooze lean to the right on the Western political spectrum. I’d be interested if anyone can recommend a sane and intelligent leftist (rare as they are, they probably do exist, Orwell was one good example of one such).

    KSA both know that Iran and Turkey are the Middle-East’s natural hegemons

    For a long period during the 20th century Egypt was seen as the natural leader of the Arab world, including it’s Middle Eastern portion. Queen Fawzia of Egypt in 1945 left her husband the Shah of Iran and went back to Egypt, refusing the Shah’s pleas to return to Tehran, a city she viewed as being primitive and boring compared to Cairo and Alexandria at the time.

    Turkey seems to be relying on aid from Gulf States now to keep their economy afloat Egypt-style.

    https://english.alarabiya.net/News/gulf/2022/11/25/Turkey-in-final-stage-talks-for-up-to-10-billion-funding-from-Qatar-Report

    I think your view of Saudi Arabia is uncharitable but we will just have to disagree on the issue. I could be biased after all.

  418. @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    Utu didn’t seem like he wanted to be fashionable though and enjoys attacking you and AP.
     
    tbh I think utu became pretty deranged near the end of his commenting here. For someone who always criticized others for supposedly being gullible and not daring to look behind the scenes he was surprisingly gullible himself when it came to the reporting of sources like POLITICO (pretty obviously a US influence operation, its status in Europe tells one everything about the asymmetric nature of the transatlantic relationship). I found it to be a rather disturbing illustration of the effect the Ukrainian war has had on a lot of people.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Matra

    I think he claimed the trucker protest in Canada against vaccine mandates was in part a Russian psyop heavily influenced by RT. (He linked to some site which had laughable claims regarding RT’s influence in Canadian society. Even the Canadian state funded news channel has few viewers, mostly the elderly, despite being available in most households, unlike RT). The Cold War experience with Russians has seriously distorted the worldviews of many Eastern Europeans.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  419. Since Richard Hanania has been mentioned, and this is AK’s old site, Hanania was probably the most prominent person to be convinced by AK’s substack article back in February that the Ukrainians would give up without much of a fight.

  420. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this.
     
    Care to explain how come ISIS is using exact same way of capital punishment as KSA: chopping the head off with a curved scimitar?

    MbS is trying to fix the problem created several leaders ago.
     
    Was butchering Khashoggi by his security thugs part of this problem fixing?

    Replies: @A123

    I doubt Saudis believe anything like this.

    The Saudis had uppity Whabbis at home, could not collect and chop them,

    Care to explain how come ISIS is using exact same way of capital punishment as KSA: chopping the head off with a curved scimitar?

    Some of the Whabbis were close to the monarchy, including some relatives of the distaff lines. This is why even careful pruning could have caused the Royal family to schism.

    The reason why Whabbi extremists use a perversion of Royal customs is… They are bastards… and, not in the potentially good Jon Snow sense. They ape royal customs without even vague understanding about what it means to rule.
    ___

    MbS acts like Putin and you complain? Getting rid of reporters is fairly standard in authoritarian countries. (1)

    The NBC news correspondent who reported that Paul Pelosi may have not been in immediate danger when police arrived at the house remains absent from the network.

    Miguel Almaguer was a regular fixture on NBC’s “Today” and “NBC Nightly News,” but ever since his revelatory report on November 4 was inexplicably retracted by the network, the Los Angeles-based correspondent has seemingly disappeared, according to Fox News.

    I would humbly suggest getting control of your FBI before besmirching the Saudis.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thepostmillennial.com/star-reporter-still-missing-from-nbc-after-reporting-on-paul-pelosi



    Video Link

  421. https://www.newsweek.com/authors/michael-gfoeller-and-david-h-rundell

    Lessons From the U.S. Civil War Show Why Ukraine Can’t Win
    During the early years of America’s Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln sought a limited conflict against people he still regarded as fellow countrymen and with whom he sought reconciliation. Only after three years of stalemate did he turn to “Unconditional Surrender Grant,” who in turn unleashed General William Tecumseh Sherman to “make Georgia howl” and help bring the war to its decisively violent conclusion. […] Armies need railroads and while Sherman systematically tore up the tracks leading to Atlanta, Surovikin is destroying the electricity grid which powers Ukrainian railroads. This has left Ukrainian cities cold and dark, but Surovikin seems to agree with Sherman that “war is cruelty, and you cannot refine it.” […]

    Once Ukraine’s rich black soil has firmly frozen, a massive Russian onslaught will commence. In fact, it has already begun at the important transportation hub of Bakhmut, which has become something of a Ukrainian Verdun. We expect Bakhmut to fall and predict that without much more Western support, Russia will recapture Kharkov, Kherson, and the remainder of the Donbas by next summer.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Sean

    So the Russian fanboys have gone from Czechslovakia 1968 (few days operation) to Iraq invasion (5-6 weeks, no mass conscription necessary) to the US Civil War, which lasted 4 years but in the age of tanks and airplanes might be 2 years.

    The discrepancy in population and industrial power between the opponents is comparable. As is that of the relative quality of the soldiers and officers.

    Two crucial differences in Ukraine’s favour. Unionists seem to have been much more motivated to preserve the Union than normal Russians are to grab Ukraine. Russians might have sentimental attachment to Crimea but they don’t care who owns Dnipropetrovsk or Kherson.

    Secondly, the Confederacy was isolated. Few arms were shipped to it, both because of the Atlantic Ocean and because it’s slavery utopia wasn’t very popular. Ukraine, on the other hand, has a land border with NATO. Troubles with rail traffic isn’t the same as a blockaded ocean. And the collective West whose industrial capacity dwarfs Russia’s is pouring the latest weapons into Ukraine.

    How would the American Civil War have turned out if the Confederacy had a land border with England and Germany and if these countries were providing a constant river of bullets, cannons, horses, etc? And if the northern public who might have supported a war in the abstract, didn’t want its sons to die in Virginia fields, while Virginia boys were willing to fight to keep the Yankees out? It might have turned out differently.

    Replies: @AP, @Sean

    , @keypusher
    @Sean


    In fact, it has already begun at the important transportation hub of Bakhmut, which has become something of a Ukrainian Verdun.
     
    I wonder if the authors know who won the battle of Verdun. The only thing better would have been if they'd called it a Ukrainian Stalingrad.

    Launch an offensive, fail, keep trying, keep failing, you can always tell yourself you're fighting a brilliant battle of attrition, you're doing a Verdun. History is a minefield of seductive analogies.

    Replies: @Sean

  422. @songbird
    @Dmitry

    I apologize. Seems you were right. TFR for migrant women is higher than I thought it was.

    But the real reason I thought you were wrong is just that it is hard for me to believe that a per capita difference could somehow cut through a more religious and traditional society, to lower TFR. Or do you think it is not explained by that?

    Female workforce participation in Saudi is a lot lower than in Argentina. But maybe more of them attend tertiary education?

    I suspect that Saudi TFR might be negatively impacted by obesity. They probably have a greater susceptibility to diabetes based on both the history of the past few hundred years and HBD. (With Argentinians having rich supplies of food, and thus being winnowed of diabetes genes). I don't know if it could explain the full difference though.


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    I take it that you think sex segregation has had a negative impact.

    That's an interesting theory. I do wonder what resort a son or daughter might have, if their female relatives somehow fail in their social role of matchmaking. (Maybe, this would be impacted at a certain threshold of TFR) Though, honestly, I don't know how the local system works.

    I'd be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry

    traditional society, to lower TFR. Or do you think it is not explained by that

    I think it is just another example how the politics is not so causally related for this topic. People overestimate the importance.

    In terms of the daily lifestyle, excluding politics or relation to the dictatorship (monarchy), Saudis would not be so different than Western middle class people.

    Iran would be more different as it is still more like a developing country. Iran is theocracy with fertility rate which is lower than liberal France, Ireland etc. There is maybe influence of politics, as their government, has tried to increase family planning in the previous decades to manage the population. But the government’s reversal of that policy, doesn’t seem have influence https://www.iranintl.com/en/20211025107012.

  423. A few quotes from one of the links in my above comment to Yahya, strictly for the lulz. Bear in mind these ideas were non-ironically mentioned to me in an IRL conversation a couple days ago. The good news is that there is something for everyone!

    Sher Singh may be intrigued to find…

    “Jati, also spelled jat, in India, a Hindu caste. The term is derived from the Sanskrit jata, ‘born’ or ‘brought into existence,’ and indicates a form of existence determined by birth. In Indian philosophy jati (genus) describes any group of things that have generic characteristics in common. Sociologically, jati has come to be used universally to indicate a caste group [in general] within Hindu society” (“Jati,” p. 511). Perhaps the notion of Jews as nobility is where the concept of Jat as applied to birth and caste actually began

    .

    For Bromance of Three Kingdoms…

    “The Hephthalites . . . [were] originally a Yueh-chih tribe.” They were also known as the “White Huns” and their names are sometimes given as “Nephthalites” (compare “Ephthalites, or White Huns,” Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th Edition, on-line at 89.1911encyclopedia.org/E/EP/EPHTHALITES.htm)—likely, as Collins points out, a derivation of the Israelite tribe of Naphtali (p. 237). If the name Yueh-chih perhaps derives from Judah or Yehudah, then the description of Naphtali as a Yueh-chih tribe could possibly indicate that the Jews were dispersed throughout the other tribes as leaders in their migrations.

    Like Vikings? How about Jew Vikings?

    Now the critical question: Could the name Jute—and perhaps Jat—be related to Judah? …
    Thus, the people who were later known as the Juten or Yuten (as J is pronounced Y in German and Scandinavian languages) would originally have been known as the Juden or Yuden. With the Hebrew plural this would be Judim or Yudim—J’hudim or Y’hudim being the actual Hebrew for Jews. Indeed, Juden is the German word for Jews.

    Hengist and Horsa, then, were leaders of Jutes who were likely Jews. As this Jutish population expanded in southern England, it took over more and more land—the Jutes thus becoming nobles. Indeed, their early arrival ensured that they were the longest established noble families of the Anglo-Saxon population. Furthermore, Hengist and Horsa are traced in descent from Woden or Odin, making them royal descendants of Zerah and perhaps even David (see Appendix 10: “The Family of Odin” and 11: “Joseph of Arimathea and the Line of Nathan”). The same is true of the kings of the Angles and Saxons who soon followed.

    And to cover the rest of us…

    The Norman nobility in France intermarried with the French nobility. Yet who were they? The Sicambrians or Franks (who gave their name to France) were part of the Teutonic invasion of Europe, which followed on the heels of the Celtic ingress. On page 611 of James Anderson’s Royal Genealogies or the Genealogical Tables of Emperors, Kings, and Princes, from Adam to These Times is a table of “The Sicambrian Kings” beginning with “Antenor, of the House of Troy, King of the Cimmerians, 443 B.C.” (see also W.M.H. Milner, The Royal House of Britain: An Enduring Dynasty, 1902, 1964, pp. 35-36, 41). So another Jewish line of descent from Troy!

    The Frankish nobility was blended with the Gaulish nobility from Celtic times. Indeed, this nobility likely had its origins in both Cimmerian Israelites migrating west across Turkey and into Europe as well as the Milesians who had founded the early colonies of southern France. These latter, at least, were apparently predominantly Jewish. The Gauls had intermarried with the noble Romans when Rome took over the area. Of course, Roman nobility traced its descent from Aeneas of the house of Troy—and thus from yet another Jewish line.

    So the nobility of France was, very likely, predominantly Jewish. It intermarried with the Norman nobility, which was likely of Jutish and thus probably Jewish heritage. Indeed, the Norman chiefs were almost certainly Jewish, being descended from Odin of the line of Troy. And the Normans became the new nobility of England—intermarrying with the remnants of a prior Jewish nobility. These finally intermarried with Welsh nobility, which was also Jewish, having descended from Brutus. When, at last, the primary Davidic line from Scotland was brought down into England, it intermarried with this nobility—many of whose members were already even of other Davidic heritage.

    Dang ya’ll, I guess everyone is Jewish after all! Because, you know things are the same if they kind of sound the same. It’s ironclad!

    • LOL: Sher Singh
  424. @A123
    @Dmitry


    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad. It’s like helping Mexicans, by giving missiles to Sinaloa Cartel to bomb the border with America.
     
    Funding violence that results in counter strikes and tighter security makes things worse. Hamas uses schools as weapons depots, and then complains about an "education" problem when munitions storage is blown up. Hamas unilaterally destroyed the fresh water supply for Gaza by diverting pipe and concrete for other uses.

    The EU makes nearly as stupid mistakes. Anti-Semitic WEF Elites send NGO's to build illegally in Area C. As soon as the WEF Elites leave, construction with the EU flag on it is torn down as illegal. How can this possibly help the people who actually live in the area?

    The sheer amount of "free" money that is pumped into the Muslim Occupation of Judea & Samaria funds the futile "resistance". If Muslims in Judea & Samaria no longer received handouts, they would have to earn enough to support themselves. There would be more peaceful commerce and less stupidity.

    Tapering UNRWA to zero over 10 years and then disbanding it would be a huge win for reason. The international standard definition for "Refugee" would once again apply. Only UNHCR qualified refugees would receive monthly stipends. There would no longer be "handout camps" in places like Syria and Jordan.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Dmitry

    Funding violence.. makes things worse

    Surely, if you give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad, only if you don’t worry about reducing life opportunities of millions of Palestinians, for your military or political objective. But why would Iran’s government worry. Their objective is to control the Arab world, not to improve some randomized poor Sunni civilians’ life. It’s the same politicians who were bombing Arab cities in the 1980s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Cities).

    But historically there were Sunni Arab governments that funded suicide bombers in Israel, for example Saudi Arabia was paying money to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. This was in 2000s. https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-06.htm So the religious or ethnic divide is not the only explanation.

    Overall, although in relation to Saudi Arabia, the wider component of Arab-Israel war had moderated since the later 1980s already. You can see in the Israel’s defense budget which falls about 5 times since. Also the lifestyle of Israel has become a lot less militaristic compared to then. It became much less of a military zone for most of the time.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Dmitry


    only if you don’t worry about reducing life opportunities of millions of Palestinians, for your military or political objective. But why would Iran’s government worry.
     
    I concur.

    Much of the money dumped into making the problem worse are driven by domestic & regional concerns. Iran and Turkey recently. KSA several monarchs ago.

    Arguably more evil is the European WEF. They want anti-Christian migration. Burning entire nations to the ground serves the Berlin/Davos/Paris Axis. UNRWA also 100% corrupt and evil.


    the wider component of Arab-Israel war had moderated since the later 1980s already. You can see in the Israel’s defense budget which falls about 5 times since

     

    In the 1980's the thought that Islam might win was still credible. There was a moment of maximum opportunity. Inexplicably, Yaser Arafat spat on peace. Muslim colonies have been losing ever since. The maximum Islamic settlers can achieve now is vastly less that what was once on offer.

    Given the limited natural resources, the best move for Muslim colonists is leaving Gaza. The problems are headed away from politics and religion. The land cannot support the numbers. Only a wealthy city-state like Singapore can be so import dependant.

    If the Muslim settlers in Judea & Samaria had the option for a compensated exit, many parents would take their children and go. Islam controls 15%-25% of the land area of the planet. Is there really no option for Islamic nations to help Muslims to return to their religious homeland?

    PEACE 😇

  425. @AP
    @Barbarossa

    Click on their name. For some reason searching for words they have typed works on a PC but not on an iPhone (unless I haven’t figured it out).

    I’ve been mostly lurking here, rather sporadically. Been busier IRL, plus been following war updates on Twitter and got sucked into commenting there, which is admittedly a stupid thing to do, the quality of commenters and comments can’t compare the ones here (most of you).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Barbarossa

    Thanks, that is the simplest, but sometimes it’s hard to find a recent comment by an inactive commenter.

    Agree on Twitter too. It seems like very stupid level comments (even if some of the posts are worthwhile).

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa

    You can manually edit the direct URL:

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=utu

    Commenter handles with a space need character %20.

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=ron%20unz

    Upper and lower case appear irrelevant. "Grey" posters, notably German_Reader are not searchable via this method.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

    Brief two panel humorous interlude.

     
    https://www.thebestsocial.media/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Bucket-1.jpg

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoWsoVZEWbcMMbmWQ1o84IhUhZVJ4aG9JG21Q8YNkkdZ1Q-QbK2rErC6_kLl2LOPOahIR0PEEAW9vEsTICFI_a3uPLGmBfhW0sxOvBpP49dOSOehtaAU-OK4rhndGgRHXa3kjS84s3XKHQoY1kvNlSLoNTcTSxTcltsJ5EzCeKeFKshHEYccXMZZDDcQ/s534/1%20fdgsdfgsdfgd.jpg

    , @AP
    @Barbarossa

    There are some smart people there that I have interacted with but the brief format limits conversations to being very brief.

  426. @Yahya
    @German_reader


    I doubt even Ron Unz has yet thought of a way to keep the site running in case of a thermonuclear war.
     
    Ron Unz scored 200+ on IQ tests so I’m pretty sure he has that figured out as well.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Ron Unz scored 200+ on IQ tests

    It looks like there are claims that he scored 214, which is difficult to believe, but in any case he is extremely intelligent, being a theoretical physicist and self-made multimillionaire. However, look at what things he believes in, what authors he promotes on his website and how he chooses to inform himself about topics like the war in Ukraine. On the latter, it’s not like listening to the monologues of the same few contrarian voices, whose analyses have been refuted once and again by objective facts, saves you any time. I have been following the war as closely as anyone but, quite frankly, I don’t have the time to listen to a 1 hour+ long video of anyone’s opinions. Apparently a very high intelligence doesn’t necessarily provide good common sense.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Mikel


    It looks like there are claims that he scored 214, which is difficult to believe, but in any case he is extremely intelligent, being a theoretical physicist and self-made multimillionaire
     
    There's no doubt Ron Unz is as brilliant as they come in IQ terms. Anyone who has seen the way he can traverse topics and absorb a mountain of facts will surely realize he is no dummy. But as you mentioned, intelligence is not the same as wisdom. The number of highly intelligent people who have made serious mistakes or committed errors of judgement is too large to count. IQ can be helpful in reasoning, but if you're not heedful of the multitude of ways the brain can trick you, your IQ could lead you to the wrong conclusion. That's why a moron like Trump can have a more accurate picture of reality than Obama or Merkel who are a full standard deviation above him in IQ.

    With regards to conspiracy theorists, the problem is that contrary to the dumb conspiracy hick stereotype, many of them are actually quite intelligent and knowledgeable about the topic in which they theorize. People like Ron Unz or Mike Whitney aren't some drooling ignoramuses spouting off the latest UFO story or whatever. They have done their research and collected a mountain of supporting arguments. But as mentioned, the brain can trick people into errors of judgement through a variety of cognitive glitches; which in the case of conspiracy theorists is the ubiquitous confirmation bias, the doubt-avoidance tendency, and the commitment & consistency tendency.

    As a Middle Easterner I have a lot of experience with conspiracy theories. Usually the way I deal with them is to ask my interlocutors if they have any evidence to support their assertions. Sometimes I get something along the lines of "you have to connect the dots" or a simple restatement of their assertions as if they were hard-proven facts. Sometimes they would reference a video they had seen or an article on the web. Once I had gotten a "I don't need to give you evidence, i'm not a political scientist".

    But for someone like Ron Unz I think I would have difficulties refuting his conspiracies, since I don't have the inclination to spend hours browsing the recesses of the web to gather arguments against COVID being an American-made bioweapon. I think i'd rather read War & Peace or watch The Thick Of It instead. That is the problem with refuting professional conspiracy theorists, they have the informational and motivational advantage. To them we are just sheeple going along with what we are fed, but to me it is wiser to spend time on Tolstoy than a USDA report.

    I agree that the authors Ron Unz chooses to host on his website is disappointing. But again I'm mostly here for the users not the columnists so I don't care too much, only insofar as these authors may have created reputational problems for former Unzers like Razib Khan or Anatoly Karlin. But still we should be grateful for hosting our community for this long, and of coruse developing and maintaining this website using his own dime.

    Replies: @A123

  427. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Sharia law didn’t slow demographic transition, even you have evidence in opposite direction.
     
    It looks like this supports the idea that some British feminists are now promoting, that much of the momentum behind the social changes linked to feminism came from technological change (in industry, in medical and reproductive technology etc.) This is contested by feminists who believe more in ideological factors.

    Imo an interesting question is will the fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology 'bottom out' at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall, to go below current SK levels. It doesn't seem implausible.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Dmitry, @Philip Owen

    I hold withthe technological change camp but I would add housing finance.

    In the early 70s banks were allowed into the housing market. Whereas building societies (S&Ls) only offered 80% loans to couples who had saved at the repayment level for at least a year and based the amount on 3.5 times the husbands income, the banks offered 90% (eventually 100% sometimes more) based on both incomes. They eventually abandoned marriage as a requirement too. Women now go out to work to pay the banks their interest on home loans.

    • Thanks: Coconuts
  428. @Barbarossa
    @AP

    Thanks, that is the simplest, but sometimes it's hard to find a recent comment by an inactive commenter.

    Agree on Twitter too. It seems like very stupid level comments (even if some of the posts are worthwhile).

    Replies: @A123, @AP

    You can manually edit the direct URL:

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=utu

    Commenter handles with a space need character %20.

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=ron%20unz

    Upper and lower case appear irrelevant. “Grey” posters, notably German_Reader are not searchable via this method.

    🎄 MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

    Brief two panel humorous interlude.

     

     

  429. @A123
    About that EV future: (1)

    Switzerland Mulling Bans on Electric Car Use Amid Energy Shortages

    As a result of the ongoing energy crisis throughout Europe, Switzerland is considering a ban on the use of electric cars for non-essential purposes.

    Owners of Teslas, Volts, and other electric cars in Switzerland may soon find themselves taking the bus, with the country reportedly considering a partial ban on using EVs as part of a host of measures aimed at saving electricity.
     
    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/12/02/switzerland-mulling-bans-on-electric-car-use-amid-energy-shortages/

    Replies: @Sean

    One wonders whether Bitcoin mining being banned will come under consideration, and what that would do to the market price.

  430. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It could track the level of the immigrants assimilation to the new country. But I doubt this would be a causal influence to effect fertility in the new country, because it doesn’t match when you look at the fertility rates in different countries in the world.
     
    I was thinking of this mainly in relation to the white British group, because I was thinking that they are the ones most likely to have adopted latest wave feminist, LGBTQIA+ and climate crisis beliefs. Probably this is concentrated in certain segments of the white British demographic (for example, the middle class), but I wouldn't be surprised if this correlates with further declines in fertility within this group. Even if it is not the real cause of the decline.

    Within the white British group part of this may also be linked to the success of the informal anti-natalist campaign that happened in the 90s around teenage motherhood, I have heard a few other people who were at school at that time talk about it and I also remember it. I think the government sought to address it by providing more contraception and abortions to teenage girls amongst other things. The question of whether anti-natalist campaigns can have an impact on fertility rates is maybe interesting.

    I was seeing the religion data as an indication that immigrant and ethnic minority groups are less likely to have adopted the modish beliefs I mentioned above, which seem to be linked to the growing secularisation of the white British population.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    A lot of the rot is in the public sector. Not necessarily the middle class end either. There is a culture of worker entitlement.

  431. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    It’s not like they build oncology clinics or build new public transport in Palestine. They give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad.
     
    You make a good point; I should have taken a harder line on Yevardian’s shilling for Iran. I can’t say that Saudi Arabia has done much for Palestine either; but the oil embargo definitely was a significant geopolitical decision that was made to the benefit of other Arab nations, most notably Egypt. KSA took a significant risk imposing an embargo on the world’s most powerful nation and the militarily weak Kingdom’s security guarantor. It’s forgotten now but at the time there was even talk in the US of an annexation of Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Sheikh Yamani the oil minister during the period pressed Kissinger to pressure Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt and threatened an oil cut-off (which the Americans had dismissed as unlikely). Saudi Arabia also financed Egypt’s purchases of Soviet weaponry. I don’t know what you call advocating for another nation’s interests while accruing risk to yourself; but that to me is praiseworthy. (All other major oil-producing Arab states joined in on the embargo, except Libya and Iraq)

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt in its time of need (which is practically always); in fact just a week ago agreed to extend term lengths for its $5 billion deposit in Egypt’s Central Bank, after depositing more than $13 billion over the past year to keep the Egyptian economy afloat:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-extends-term-deposit-egypts-cbank-spa-2022-11-29/

    There’s much to criticize about Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States but Yevardian’s irrational dislike of Arabia and Iran boosterism drives him to deprive them of any credit whatsoever.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    me is praiseworthy

    From the point of automobile aesthetics, it is a very sad consequence (from the point of view of the environment, the increase in price of oil was not bad of course).

    There are some very good reports on YouTube. You can see the directly how it killed the classic epoch of American automobiles.

    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut? My impression, is this kind of superficial Parisian Disneyland for wealthy tourists, can be anti-example of how your rebuild an ancient city.

    Yevardian’s irrational dislike of Arabia and Iran boosterism

    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

    Saudi Arabia do not seem to create that. And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers. Maybe Al Jazeera was too mainstream or prestigious to be consumed by the more alternative media viewers.

    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.

    Royal family has feudal power. Women cannot drive cars. Government pays for everyone. Opponents of royal family are executed with a sword. Wealthy men have multiple wives.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle, driving large SUVs, eating large cuts of meat with your family. The main health challenge arriving now is American kind of obesity.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument. Probably better national policy for Middle Eastern countries is to stay in your island, avoid contact too much with the Westerners and hope to avoided more like the Sentinelese.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers.
     
    One of the oddities of the modern world is seeing a quasi-Islamist Gulf State, which no doubt would be placed on the far, reactionary right of the Western political spectrum, disseminate left-wing/woke talking points through their English-language media channels. Their Arabic-language channels meanwhile are known to push Islamist narratives, so the Qataris are sort of playing both sides of the spectrum, depending on the audience.

    I have to say their strategy is pretty smart. I think they know the main movers and shakers in Washington and London lean to the left so they are targeting them specifically. Seems like a more rational strategy than Russia Today which seems to cater to conspiracy theorists and anti-government types, who are of course powerless and negligible. I've only watched a few of Al Jazeera's documentaries but invariably they are well-made and aesthetically pleasing, though definitely pushing certain narratives, which of course every other media channel does as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

    Qatar has a lot of money, but one can't but help be impressed that such a tiny "nation" has outdone several large countries on the media front, even if you disagree with their politics.


    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.
     
    I'm not aware of any Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional even for them. They probably want a more patriarchal structure in society but not necessarily for women to be covered from head-to-toe, for dating to be impermissible etc.

    Women cannot drive cars.
     
    Not true. That changed in 2018.

    Wealthy men have multiple wives.
     
    Exaggeration.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle,
     
    True.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut?
     
    I haven't visited Beirut in some years so I can't say. I'm not surprised at all they built some ultra-luxurious complexes in the middle of the city. I admire the Lebanese elite for their sophistication but sometimes I do feel it's a bit forced; and building luxury shopping centers is especially egregious given how poor and deprived the rest of the population is. In Egypt we don't have these sort of areas with only Prada and Louis Vuitton type shops; the upper class are forced to co-mingle in areas with at least the upper-middle class. Though I can already spot some changes.

    Beirut's gentrification began under PM Rafik Hariri, a Saudi-Lebanese former real estate developer who recruited his executives to government and placed them as heads of redevelopment projects in Beirut. Their aim was to resuscitate the civil-war ridden Beirut into "the finest city in the world". By "finest" they also meant the most expensive, that's why even today when Lebanon's economy is in the toilet real estate prices there are equivalent to London or Hong Kong. They redeveloped the downtown area into a more luxurious setting; from what i've seen online some of the streets there look nice; but I've also read they've become ghost towns and even Starbucks and McDonalds have closed shop for a lack of visitors, never a good sign. Problem is now rich tourists like Gulf Arabs have a lot of places to go; from London to Cannes to Hong Kong to Dubai and Paris etc, Beirut is just one of many. There used to be a time when its proximity would give it a leg up; but anecdotally not many of my relatives go there anymore; whereas my grandfather would travel to Beirut every other year in the 50s-70s.

    Definitely when you are lucky enough to inherit ancient buildings and historical monuments you don't want to tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca. The universal reaction is condemnation and disgust yet city planners insist anyway for some reason, so this is a problem. Once lost you can never retrieve the gravitas accorded to a city by its ancient monuments. In Egypt they try to build these stupid pharaonic-style buildings, and they just look hideous and pathetic.


    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

     

    I think Yevardian's Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background and upbringing. Saudi Arabia is of course the birthplace of Islam, the traditional enemy of Armenians so that may play a role as well.

    One surprising thing I learnt was that Armenians aren't fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of "we merry brothers were victims of genocide together", but no. Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @sudden death, @Dmitry

  432. @Barbarossa
    @AP

    Thanks, that is the simplest, but sometimes it's hard to find a recent comment by an inactive commenter.

    Agree on Twitter too. It seems like very stupid level comments (even if some of the posts are worthwhile).

    Replies: @A123, @AP

    There are some smart people there that I have interacted with but the brief format limits conversations to being very brief.

  433. @AnonfromTN
    Another day in Donbass. The facts speak for themselves, so I won’t add any comments.

    Donetsk. Ukrainian shelling yesterday killed eight civilians and wounded 20. Among those killed was female DPR MP Maria Pirogova.

    Alchevsk. Ukrainian shelling yesterday killed ten civilians and wounded 23.

    News outside of Donbass that also don’t need commenting.

    Zaporozhye nuclear power plant was shelled by Ukraine again with 155 mm shells (for those who don’t know, that’s NATO caliber, Russian shells are 152 mm).

    “Democratic” Latvia revoked the license of anti-Putin TV channel Dozhd after 4.5 months of its moving to “democratic” Europe, where they thought there is no censorship. Before that it broadcast in Russia (presumably under severe censorship) for 12 years.

    Replies: @AP

    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.

    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?

    Russia itself has killed thousands of Russian-speakers, per the UN.

    • Agree: sudden death
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?
     
    It’s like police operation: when you eliminate the murderer, the murders stop.

    Replies: @AP, @keypusher

    , @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.
     
    So, in your book 12 murders are not a crime? Then almost all murderers all over the world are innocent lambs.

    Replies: @AP, @Philip Owen

  434. All but one of the Saratov newspaper publishing on line have avoided discussion of the Engels bomb. The only one that has mentioned the subject represents the largest United Russia faction. There is a picture showing teh damaged tail plane but that is not mentioned in the text which discussed the fuel truck as if it might have caught fire by itself.

    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled? Apparently it’s a racial slur for white people. I rather like it.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Philip Owen


    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled?
     
    New ISP, new computer, sign up as a new user.

    This is not Rocket Science!

    Would certainly work for Ex lax though she could only cloak herself for three or four posts until it became obvious even to someone as clueless as myself.
    , @S
    @Philip Owen


    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled?
     
    Shouldn't be too difficult. Might send a brief e-mail to Ron when you do.

    Apparently it’s a racial slur for white people. I rather like it.
     
    There are those amongst the Black population who seem to rather enjoy calling others the 'N-word' and in turn enjoy being called that name themselves. It only stands to reason I suppose that White folk would have their equivelant of that sort. :-)
  435. @songbird
    @showmethereal


    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe
     
    That's complete tosh - if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn't be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans.

    No, a much better argument would be that they are acting from self-interest, and don't want to see the US clear the field for action against China.

    Though, I do grant you that it is possible that many of these countries that beat the drum - Iran for instance - have been left behind as far as the trends go, and they are run by boomers who don't understand that we are a long way from the '60s, and things have really started to deteriorate, at a quickening pace, and, if we go, it might be like a set of dominoes ultimately impacting them.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @showmethereal

    “That’s complete tosh – if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn’t be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans.”

    You obviously didn’t read the stories the other person referenced… What does that have to do with domestic social policy.

    Personally I think you are the one obsessed with race. Everything is race for you guys. Usually complaining that others are against your race.

    And I didn’t say “save the west”. I said Europe specifically… Which is the context of the issue… You think the US is for Europe’s best interest???? Anglo Saxon Five Eyes above all else….

    • Replies: @songbird
    @showmethereal


    You obviously didn’t read the stories the other person referenced
     
    You used the rather grandiose language that China is "trying to save Europe." Implying that the primary motivation is selflessness and altruism rather than the self-motivated behavior of not wanting to see the US regime achieve its geopolitical goals, allowing China to be the next target of the regime.

    I countered that that is ridiculous as China regularly employs the cynical "racist Europeans" gambit, when it sees an advantage in it (see Wolf Warrior 2, if you don't believe me) , and that "racist Europeans" is a meme that is destroying Europe (however weak the effect of Chinese propaganda) and that if they had a policy of "saving Europe", then they would not be employing such a destructive meme, but would rather be trying to fight it.

    Personally I think you are the one obsessed with race. Everything is race for you guys.
     
    Oh, great, now you are bringing out the Jordan Peterson act.

    You think that it serves Euros not to think about race, when they are on the other side of the largest invasion in history, and it is showing no signs of letting up, but rather seems to be accelerating? And when your ruling elite show every sign of supporting it, and vilify you and try to circumscribe your speech at every opportunity?

    Your sentiment is silly. It is well-known that every other group has higher ethnocentrism than Euros. The Chinese used man-catching poles on their blacks. Obviously Europeans have a deficiency in ethnocentricism which can only be ameliorated by noticing.

    You think the US is for Europe’s best interest?
     
    Never said it was, but using the racist meme against Americans, as China often does, is jsut pulling on strings that connect to Europe.

    In the particular case of Chinese propaganda, the effect on target is probably nil, but it is the idea that bothers me.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  436. @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    To me it seems they are trying to save Europe
     
    Maybe Chinese are trying to save Europe. However, the last few months suggest to me that Europe is beyond salvage (maybe with the exception of a few islands of sanity still left there). I’d prefer to be wrong, but…

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Yeah I can understand because of the atom bombs Japan is still in a state of shock. In the 80’s and 90’s it did everything the US told it to do (giving up semiconductor tech to signing the Plaza Accords)…. But I don’t get why Europe is willingly sacrificing itself for US interests. It baffles me.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    because of the atom bombs Japan is still in a state of shock
     
    Here is an undeniable fact, the mention of which makes hypocrites cringe and start babbling incoherent BS. Nukes were used as a weapon of war for the first (and so far the last) time more than 77 years ago. On August 6, 1945, Hiroshima was nuked. Three days later, on August 9, 1945, Nagasaki was nuked.

    Only one country in the world used nukes against humans. It was not Pakistan, India, NK, or even Israel. By the most conservative estimates, more than 100,000 civilians were killed by these bombings. Nobody was ever punished for these crimes.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  437. @Yahya
    @songbird


    I’d be interested if Yahya has any speculations about the differential.
     
    Are you referring to the deferential between KSA and Argentina, or between natives and migrants in Saudi Arabia?

    There's not much of a difference between Argentina and Saudi Arabia in TFR today. Both roughly are around the 2.2-2.4 mark, even when accounting for KSA's migrant population.

    There are multiple factors that determine a nation's fertility; female education, urbanization, economic development, government policies, religiosity, culture and mores etc. You need to take a muli-variable approach to these things. It's probably not a good idea to make a two-nation comparison either as that limits your sample size. If we want to ascertain the relative contribution of "traditionalism" or "theocracy" in determining TFR, we'd have to run it through a multivaried regression to arrive at a co-efficient and ensure against the omitted variable bias. Standard statistics 101. I'm sure some researchers have done that before though I can't be bothered to check.

    There are probably also issues with quantifying the relative "traditionalism" of various countries. People typically recourse to Saudi Arabia and Iran because these are ostensibly obvious examples of traditional societies. But how does one go about determining if Turkey is more traditional than China, or Cambodia more than Bangladesh? Is Saudi Arabia really the best example of a traditional society either? If you travel there you'd quickly be inundated with a sea of Nike's and Starbucks'; Audi's and BMW's; universal air conditioning and gigantic state-of-the art malls. Is a modern Saudi citizen really living a more traditional lifestyle than some Congolose woman carrying a jug of water to her mud hut (based) in the middle of nowhere?

    Re, Saudi TFR: i've witnessed the decline in my own family first-hand. My grandparents had 10 kids, only 6 of whom survived through infancy; Saudi Arabia was in many ways still in medieval-mode at the time. The next generation had an average of roughly 4-5 kids, all of whom survived through infancy, including thankfully me. I'm actually the youngest of all my cousins, who probably number 24-26 (tough to keep an accurate count of these things). I have one cousin who is only 10 years younger than my father; things like this tend to happen when you have such a large family.

    Mores have changed such that the new generation of Yahya's paternal family are only having 2-3 kids on average. Perhaps we will reach an average of 4 kids as time goes on; which is above the Saudi median. This is fairly predictable as the upper crust of societies tend to have more kids than middle class people. The rule also holds true in Egypt where I estimated my classmates come from households with an average of 4 kids also.

    Unfortunately the upper class of any society are miniscule in proportion, so it wouldn't make much of a dent on population dynamics over the long run. For a eugenic effect to take place the educated portion of the (upper-)middle class need to do their part in cranking out kids, which it seems they are failing at in almost any industrialized society. One step forward two steps back. I think the inexorable march towards sub-replacement fertility is inevitable in the modern world, only question is how eugenic/dysgenic the changes will be.

    Marriage is Saudi Arabia is still very much arranged through female network. Little else you can do. In Egypt dating is more permissible.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    If you travel there you’d quickly be inundated with a sea of Nike’s and Starbucks’;

    These countries have avoid Americanization much more than Europe in some ways. For example, they continue traditional Arab religion, gender relations or political structure. German Reader would be happy they are not like France having places called for American political events like “Rosa Parks street”.

    But then in other areas, they resist Americanization a lot less than countries like France, Japan or Italy.

    So Italy and Japan, have the lowest obesity rates of developed countries. France has one of the lowest rates. Their daily diet and lifestyle avoided the American model, even when they play baseball or have American clothes. But Qatar was already “more America than Tennessee” with diet and lifestyle problems.

    [MORE]

    There is a good YouTube report about the obesity problem of young people in Qatar.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    These countries have avoid Americanization much more than Europe in some ways. For example, they continue traditional Arab religion, gender relations or political structure. German Reader would be happy they are not like France having places called for American political events like “Rosa Parks street”.
     
    Gulf Arab states have successfully charted the path outlined by the Meiji reformers of Japan in the 19th century; that is to modernize while maintaining one's customs and traditions. Of course things never stay exactly the same, and the Arabian way of life has evolved to a certain extent alongside the technological advancements of the previous century. But the Kingdom remains grounded in faith and tradition to an extent that forum users debating the impact of traditionalism on fertility still automatically recourse to Saudi Arabia as an obvious example of a traditional society.

    For a formerly primitive society to successfully adapt to modernity is not as easy as you'd think. A comparison between Amerindians and Arabians bares consideration. Both were thrust from primitiveness onto modernity in a short period of time. Amerindians now live in an even more prosperous society than Saudis, yet one group lives in despondency and alcoholism, the other has adapted and avoided the pitfalls of modernity. Islam plays a large part in producing this outcome.

    I wrote a post a couple of months ago on my observations of Saudi society since MBS's liberalization reforms. Women are no longer required to wear the hijab by law; yet during my trip to Riyadh I estimated roughly 90% of them covered their head with an Islamic scarf, though it differs among regions. Likewise, nearly all still wear the traditional Arabian female garb, the abaya, which I used to dislike but have come to view as being superior to slutty Western clothing. This is an example of how an Arabian girl can sport the abaya in a tasteful manner:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxjIm-cX0AEmXaO.jpg


    To be fair, nearly all other MENA countries are still based and grounded as well. The region, due to its proximity, has historically been susceptible to European memetic packages (and vice-versa; i.e. monotheism) and indeed almost all MENA elites are fluent in either English or French; so the region is always at risk of adopting Western mores and attitudes. But to their credit, Middle Eastern and North African countries have limited Westernization to more superficial and unimportant aspects, the only possible exception being Lebanon. This outcome too is brought about largely by anchoring influence of Islam.

  438. @showmethereal
    @Mikel

    Of course there are many factors (genetics - environment - diet/lifestyle)... Anecdotally I think "strenuous exercise in nature" is probably a better bet. The people I know who practice such tend to live longer and have much better quality of life up into their 70's and 80's (some losing function in their 90's). I've never seen it among the "body building" crowd - but maybe because that's a newer phenomenon. I wonder what the average life expectancy of a body builder is - and likewise rugby and american football players compared to other athletes....??

    Replies: @Mikel

    I wonder what the average life expectancy of a body builder is

    The crucial thing here is if the bodybuilder is clean (no steroids, hormones, etc) or unclean. Many of the compounds that bodybuilders take are very damaging for long-term health but I would expect a clean bodybuilder to live longer than the average. They eat rather healthy diets, don’t smoke or abuse alcohol and anaerobic exercise, while not as good as aerobic for general health, also provides benefits, one of them being the muscle mass that is so important in old age, as I discussed in my previous comment. I don’t think there are too many clean bodybuilders though.

    On the other hand, exercising and dieting to maximize muscle mass is not the optimum strategy if your goal is to maximize lifespan. You would rather need to focus on aerobic exercise while trying to maintain muscle mass, which may be difficult if you overdo it, as the physiques of marathon runners show. There are different hallmarks of aging at a cellular level but an important one is the accumulation of dead and senescent cells. This can be delayed with the process of autophagy: forcing your organism to use these damaged cells for metabolism instead of exterior nutrients. Autophagy is achieved through caloric restriction (the best known method to extend lifespan in all sorts of organisms, from yeast to mammals), intermittent fasting and strong aerobic exercise. Bodybuilders that eat constant protein-rich food and only practice moderate aerobics, if at all, are giving up this important longevity tool, although the caloric restriction during the “cutting” phase should provide some of it.

    I am by no means an expert on any of this though. I’m just relaying what I believe is the latest scientific understanding. If AnonfromTN regularly works with plasmids, as he explained above, he is the one person who should be commenting on all this.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Mikel

    Mostly agreed. I had a relative who was an amateur bodybuilder— for a few years. Gave it up. I don’t know if he was “dirty”… but I know he wasn’t too keen on taking supplements overall. He’s healthy now and only does minor strength training. His passion was for football (soccer).
    But yeah marathon runners I don’t know their average life expectancy … but I know several. They all have joint problems though. Pushing the body to too many extremes over time will always cause some type of ailments. Moderation is always best it seems to me. The longest living people I personally knew (wi th best quality of life) were not highly trained “athletes”. They were people who grew up rural and lived part of their lives in urban environments. Believed in walking and not using machines for much. Did things by hand and physically active. Ate as fresh as they could and never too much. Didn’t have to live on pills from the doctor as they got old. Minds were still sharp - even as short term memory failed.

    On the other hand the best fighters I knew were generally lean (a reason many boxing trainers discourage a lot of weight lifting)…. So I never understood the obsession of some with bulk and mass…

  439. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.

    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?

    Russia itself has killed thousands of Russian-speakers, per the UN.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?

    It’s like police operation: when you eliminate the murderer, the murders stop.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Well, there were 12 "murders" in 2021.

    Around 7,000 documented killings as a result of this war, per UN.

    So it would take 583 years of 2021-style war to break even with the number of documented deaths caused by Russia's special operation.

    , @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN


    It’s like police operation: when you eliminate the murderer, the murders stop.

     

    Ludicrous.

    As you know, there was no meaningful fighting or killing after 2015, before Putin invaded this past February, causing thousands upon thousands of foreseeable civilian deaths.

    Since it can't accomplish anything on the battlefield, Russia is now pinning its hopes on destroying infrastructure and freezing Ukrainian civilians, oops murderers.
  440. @Dmitry
    @A123


    Funding violence.. makes things worse
     
    Surely, if you give missiles to Hamas or Islamic Jihad, only if you don't worry about reducing life opportunities of millions of Palestinians, for your military or political objective. But why would Iran's government worry. Their objective is to control the Arab world, not to improve some randomized poor Sunni civilians' life. It's the same politicians who were bombing Arab cities in the 1980s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Cities).

    But historically there were Sunni Arab governments that funded suicide bombers in Israel, for example Saudi Arabia was paying money to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. This was in 2000s. https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-06.htm So the religious or ethnic divide is not the only explanation.

    Overall, although in relation to Saudi Arabia, the wider component of Arab-Israel war had moderated since the later 1980s already. You can see in the Israel's defense budget which falls about 5 times since. Also the lifestyle of Israel has become a lot less militaristic compared to then. It became much less of a military zone for most of the time.

    Replies: @A123

    only if you don’t worry about reducing life opportunities of millions of Palestinians, for your military or political objective. But why would Iran’s government worry.

    I concur.

    Much of the money dumped into making the problem worse are driven by domestic & regional concerns. Iran and Turkey recently. KSA several monarchs ago.

    Arguably more evil is the European WEF. They want anti-Christian migration. Burning entire nations to the ground serves the Berlin/Davos/Paris Axis. UNRWA also 100% corrupt and evil.

    the wider component of Arab-Israel war had moderated since the later 1980s already. You can see in the Israel’s defense budget which falls about 5 times since

    In the 1980’s the thought that Islam might win was still credible. There was a moment of maximum opportunity. Inexplicably, Yaser Arafat spat on peace. Muslim colonies have been losing ever since. The maximum Islamic settlers can achieve now is vastly less that what was once on offer.

    Given the limited natural resources, the best move for Muslim colonists is leaving Gaza. The problems are headed away from politics and religion. The land cannot support the numbers. Only a wealthy city-state like Singapore can be so import dependant.

    If the Muslim settlers in Judea & Samaria had the option for a compensated exit, many parents would take their children and go. Islam controls 15%-25% of the land area of the planet. Is there really no option for Islamic nations to help Muslims to return to their religious homeland?

    PEACE 😇

  441. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.

    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?

    Russia itself has killed thousands of Russian-speakers, per the UN.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.

    So, in your book 12 murders are not a crime? Then almost all murderers all over the world are innocent lambs.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Killing 7,000 in order to prevent 12 is an exponentially worse crime.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Philip Owen
    @AnonfromTN

    Almost all from stepping on mines.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  442. @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?
     
    It’s like police operation: when you eliminate the murderer, the murders stop.

    Replies: @AP, @keypusher

    Well, there were 12 “murders” in 2021.

    Around 7,000 documented killings as a result of this war, per UN.

    So it would take 583 years of 2021-style war to break even with the number of documented deaths caused by Russia’s special operation.

  443. @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.
     
    So, in your book 12 murders are not a crime? Then almost all murderers all over the world are innocent lambs.

    Replies: @AP, @Philip Owen

    Killing 7,000 in order to prevent 12 is an exponentially worse crime.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP

    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes. Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment, or do you not? If not, discussing anything with you is pointless.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted. If they were not, Ukraine is as lawless as a jungle.


    per UN.
     
    The credibility of an organization that pretends not to know who is shelling Zaporozhye nuclear power plant is exactly zero. Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    Replies: @keypusher, @AP

  444. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    me is praiseworthy
     
    From the point of automobile aesthetics, it is a very sad consequence (from the point of view of the environment, the increase in price of oil was not bad of course).

    There are some very good reports on YouTube. You can see the directly how it killed the classic epoch of American automobiles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaNhx71XB8


    Saudi Arabia continues to lend a hand to poor Egypt
     
    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut? My impression, is this kind of superficial Parisian Disneyland for wealthy tourists, can be anti-example of how your rebuild an ancient city.

    Yevardian’s irrational dislike of Arabia and Iran boosterism
     

    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

    Saudi Arabia do not seem to create that. And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers. Maybe Al Jazeera was too mainstream or prestigious to be consumed by the more alternative media viewers.

    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western "traditionalists".

    Royal family has feudal power. Women cannot drive cars. Government pays for everyone. Opponents of royal family are executed with a sword. Wealthy men have multiple wives.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle, driving large SUVs, eating large cuts of meat with your family. The main health challenge arriving now is American kind of obesity.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument. Probably better national policy for Middle Eastern countries is to stay in your island, avoid contact too much with the Westerners and hope to avoided more like the Sentinelese.

    Replies: @Yahya

    And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers.

    One of the oddities of the modern world is seeing a quasi-Islamist Gulf State, which no doubt would be placed on the far, reactionary right of the Western political spectrum, disseminate left-wing/woke talking points through their English-language media channels. Their Arabic-language channels meanwhile are known to push Islamist narratives, so the Qataris are sort of playing both sides of the spectrum, depending on the audience.

    I have to say their strategy is pretty smart. I think they know the main movers and shakers in Washington and London lean to the left so they are targeting them specifically. Seems like a more rational strategy than Russia Today which seems to cater to conspiracy theorists and anti-government types, who are of course powerless and negligible. I’ve only watched a few of Al Jazeera’s documentaries but invariably they are well-made and aesthetically pleasing, though definitely pushing certain narratives, which of course every other media channel does as well.

    Qatar has a lot of money, but one can’t but help be impressed that such a tiny “nation” has outdone several large countries on the media front, even if you disagree with their politics.

    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.

    I’m not aware of any Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional even for them. They probably want a more patriarchal structure in society but not necessarily for women to be covered from head-to-toe, for dating to be impermissible etc.

    Women cannot drive cars.

    Not true. That changed in 2018.

    Wealthy men have multiple wives.

    Exaggeration.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle,

    True.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.

    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut?

    I haven’t visited Beirut in some years so I can’t say. I’m not surprised at all they built some ultra-luxurious complexes in the middle of the city. I admire the Lebanese elite for their sophistication but sometimes I do feel it’s a bit forced; and building luxury shopping centers is especially egregious given how poor and deprived the rest of the population is. In Egypt we don’t have these sort of areas with only Prada and Louis Vuitton type shops; the upper class are forced to co-mingle in areas with at least the upper-middle class. Though I can already spot some changes.

    Beirut’s gentrification began under PM Rafik Hariri, a Saudi-Lebanese former real estate developer who recruited his executives to government and placed them as heads of redevelopment projects in Beirut. Their aim was to resuscitate the civil-war ridden Beirut into “the finest city in the world”. By “finest” they also meant the most expensive, that’s why even today when Lebanon’s economy is in the toilet real estate prices there are equivalent to London or Hong Kong. They redeveloped the downtown area into a more luxurious setting; from what i’ve seen online some of the streets there look nice; but I’ve also read they’ve become ghost towns and even Starbucks and McDonalds have closed shop for a lack of visitors, never a good sign. Problem is now rich tourists like Gulf Arabs have a lot of places to go; from London to Cannes to Hong Kong to Dubai and Paris etc, Beirut is just one of many. There used to be a time when its proximity would give it a leg up; but anecdotally not many of my relatives go there anymore; whereas my grandfather would travel to Beirut every other year in the 50s-70s.

    Definitely when you are lucky enough to inherit ancient buildings and historical monuments you don’t want to tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca. The universal reaction is condemnation and disgust yet city planners insist anyway for some reason, so this is a problem. Once lost you can never retrieve the gravitas accorded to a city by its ancient monuments. In Egypt they try to build these stupid pharaonic-style buildings, and they just look hideous and pathetic.

    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

    I think Yevardian’s Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background and upbringing. Saudi Arabia is of course the birthplace of Islam, the traditional enemy of Armenians so that may play a role as well.

    One surprising thing I learnt was that Armenians aren’t fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of “we merry brothers were victims of genocide together”, but no. Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Yahya

    For some reason, I was under the impression that you've been commenting at this site for a few years, but looking at your profile it seems that you're a relatively new contributor here (onl 295 comments so far?). You've already helped to reinvigorate this blogsite, always including interesting comments where I seem to learn something new every day. Keep up the great work!

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @A123
    @Yahya



    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.
     
    I am not sure why you think it has anything to do with Netanyahu or Palestinian Jews. The major Israeli efforts have tried to be bi-partisan.

    Is the genocidal BDS movement against Jews:
        • Bipartisan in the U.S.?
        • Near 100% Democrat Party?

    Ilhan Omar is, "The Beacon of Islamic Values in America". This title of unrivaled symbolism may soon pass to Rashida Tlaib. Leaders like these are making the DNC openly SJW anti-Semitic. There is not much that can done to prevent it, thus quite hard to blame Netanyahu.

    Perhaps you should phrase it as SJW Islam will learn the hard way?.
    ___

    Some here suggest that SJW Islam (Europe and America) and Gulf Islam are still fundamentally the same. That SJW is simply an "intersectional" appendage. Even if true, the subtlety of "intersectionality" is not reaching Main Street in Christian nations. Gulf Islam is going to inherit the backlash from winding up on the SJW Islam political side. Even if they do not practice SJW Islam values at home.

    The only way out of this consequence is framing SJW Islam versus Gulf Islam as open opposition and antipathy. Do you remember the intersection of Al Jazeera / Al Gore? It is hard to see how opposition can be started at this point. Islam has been infiltrating the DNC for decades.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @sudden death
    @Yahya


    Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.
     
    One more example of competitive victimhood, guess Jews might share the mutual feeling at least to some degree, IIRC Israel doesn't recognize Armenian case in WWI Turkey as genocide case.
    , @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    their strategy is pretty smart.. than Russia Today
     
    It's not surprising. You could have always predicted their media project would be more successful, as wealthy Arab governments are more usually competent (view, of national interest, not interest of local elites) than postsoviet governments. Al Jazeera is probably not just created to cut from the budget.

    You could see the example with the coronavirus response. Gulf were one of the regions which managed with well organized and effective strategy. While in the postsoviet space it was one of the more incompetent and excess deaths are showing this.


    Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional
     
    This is what I was saying. Saudi didn't invest PR in the West, and so they didn't create this market in the West. If they wanted they could have used money to sell for Western right-wing. But there wouldn't have been a positive long-term result because the result, you make the political opponents of people you market to, to dislike you.

    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

     

    Definitely this is one of the incompetent parts of the Netanyahu diplomacy, his relation with America has connected to Republicans. He markets for Republicans, so therefore Democrat base will become opponent to Israel. It's like reverse version from how Ukraine is supported by Democrat Party, so the Republicans and Fox News are becoming more anti-Ukraine.

    tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca
     
    This re-novation project I was talking about for Beirut (which was funded with mostly Saudi Arabia) are those kitschy stone Parisian like buildings. It's like a postsoviet dictator interpretation of Paris.

    I haven't been there. But I think these stone buildings go souless. Pedestrianism is good. But it would have been better if they had given the downtown to the local people and allowed them to run normal Middle Eastern life there, instead of a luxury center with oversize European style building.


    I think Yevardian’s Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background
     
    I wasn't thinking so much about Yevardian as individual. But in terms of predictable views here, as we are in forum hosted next to alternative media posts. So, I guess it would be normal the audience who go to the forum, would be more on pro-Iran/anti-Saudi. Because Saudi doesn't seem to do PR in that media space.

    Armenians aren’t fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of “we merry brothers

     

    You think Armenians view themselves as the unsuccessful version of Jews and this creates a negative view? I remember people like Bashibuzuk, Sailer and AaronB was believing this for some reason, but there is very little except superficial connection or similarity .

    Jews are a multiracial and multinational religious group with Messianic beliefs (including overlapping cults and a portion of the ex-members), but Armenians are an ethnicity or nationality based in shared blood and culture, not religious prophecy.

    Jews are religious groups like Mormons, but Armenians are a nationality, similar to nationalities like Azerbaijanis and Georgians. This is why holocaust is viewed like a biblical apocalypse and a religious representation and cannot be seen as a normal genocide.

    Armenians are supposedly famous for ethnocentricity, but Jews doesn't use ethnocentricity, but a religious centricity based on the shared messianic mission. Jewish interconnection (like Mormon interconnection) is based in the sharing of prophetic mission and religious cult creates a more stable motivation for the inner-group. I doubt that ethnocentricity or simple tribalism of Caucasian nationalities is really such a motivation by comparison to the messianic or prophetic religious connections across multiple ethnicities that religious groups can create. It's because these religious groups have an end-point goal, not just a shared beginning. In Jewish culture, to "heal the world" and arrive at the end times.

    This kind of messianic structure of Israel, Americans would understand a bit as America also has an influence of messianic culture, but especially American Mormons would understand and have plagiarized a lot of the Jewish culture. (Mormons also have a lot of similar strong community life).

    It's probably not surprising, Israel becomes more of a messianic settler country like America, which is different from neighbors. Of course, Armenian is a settled nationality, and the country will be similar to postsoviet neighbors. If Armenia was next to Benelux countries, it would be like Benelux countries. But if Israel was next to Benelux countries, it would probably still be quite strange compared to their neighbors.

    If Armenia should try to be more successful, the example they would follow are countries with the internal reform with postsoviet history like Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania.


    There is religious zionist culture in Israel. They will be believing they are part of Biblical prophecy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNelH17xZQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS07e48o5bk

  445. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers.
     
    One of the oddities of the modern world is seeing a quasi-Islamist Gulf State, which no doubt would be placed on the far, reactionary right of the Western political spectrum, disseminate left-wing/woke talking points through their English-language media channels. Their Arabic-language channels meanwhile are known to push Islamist narratives, so the Qataris are sort of playing both sides of the spectrum, depending on the audience.

    I have to say their strategy is pretty smart. I think they know the main movers and shakers in Washington and London lean to the left so they are targeting them specifically. Seems like a more rational strategy than Russia Today which seems to cater to conspiracy theorists and anti-government types, who are of course powerless and negligible. I've only watched a few of Al Jazeera's documentaries but invariably they are well-made and aesthetically pleasing, though definitely pushing certain narratives, which of course every other media channel does as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

    Qatar has a lot of money, but one can't but help be impressed that such a tiny "nation" has outdone several large countries on the media front, even if you disagree with their politics.


    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.
     
    I'm not aware of any Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional even for them. They probably want a more patriarchal structure in society but not necessarily for women to be covered from head-to-toe, for dating to be impermissible etc.

    Women cannot drive cars.
     
    Not true. That changed in 2018.

    Wealthy men have multiple wives.
     
    Exaggeration.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle,
     
    True.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut?
     
    I haven't visited Beirut in some years so I can't say. I'm not surprised at all they built some ultra-luxurious complexes in the middle of the city. I admire the Lebanese elite for their sophistication but sometimes I do feel it's a bit forced; and building luxury shopping centers is especially egregious given how poor and deprived the rest of the population is. In Egypt we don't have these sort of areas with only Prada and Louis Vuitton type shops; the upper class are forced to co-mingle in areas with at least the upper-middle class. Though I can already spot some changes.

    Beirut's gentrification began under PM Rafik Hariri, a Saudi-Lebanese former real estate developer who recruited his executives to government and placed them as heads of redevelopment projects in Beirut. Their aim was to resuscitate the civil-war ridden Beirut into "the finest city in the world". By "finest" they also meant the most expensive, that's why even today when Lebanon's economy is in the toilet real estate prices there are equivalent to London or Hong Kong. They redeveloped the downtown area into a more luxurious setting; from what i've seen online some of the streets there look nice; but I've also read they've become ghost towns and even Starbucks and McDonalds have closed shop for a lack of visitors, never a good sign. Problem is now rich tourists like Gulf Arabs have a lot of places to go; from London to Cannes to Hong Kong to Dubai and Paris etc, Beirut is just one of many. There used to be a time when its proximity would give it a leg up; but anecdotally not many of my relatives go there anymore; whereas my grandfather would travel to Beirut every other year in the 50s-70s.

    Definitely when you are lucky enough to inherit ancient buildings and historical monuments you don't want to tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca. The universal reaction is condemnation and disgust yet city planners insist anyway for some reason, so this is a problem. Once lost you can never retrieve the gravitas accorded to a city by its ancient monuments. In Egypt they try to build these stupid pharaonic-style buildings, and they just look hideous and pathetic.


    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

     

    I think Yevardian's Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background and upbringing. Saudi Arabia is of course the birthplace of Islam, the traditional enemy of Armenians so that may play a role as well.

    One surprising thing I learnt was that Armenians aren't fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of "we merry brothers were victims of genocide together", but no. Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @sudden death, @Dmitry

    For some reason, I was under the impression that you’ve been commenting at this site for a few years, but looking at your profile it seems that you’re a relatively new contributor here (onl 295 comments so far?). You’ve already helped to reinvigorate this blogsite, always including interesting comments where I seem to learn something new every day. Keep up the great work!

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Mr. Hack


    For some reason, I was under the impression that you’ve been commenting at this site for a few years, but looking at your profile it seems that you’re a relatively new contributor here (onl 295 comments so far?).
     
    I have actually been commenting on Unz for 3 years now (with a year-long hiatus in between), though previously under another handle "Yahya K." which is now hidden. I used to hang around the Audacious Epigone blog, where only I think songbird and iffen from this blog knew me. Though I have to say the commenters here are vastly more interesting and knowledgeable than AE's crowd. I've been lurking around Karlin's posts and comment section since before I started regularly commenting so was somewhat familiar with most of you, though you were not familiar with me :) . I should have came here along time ago though, inexplicable why I delayed it for so long. The international focus is much to my liking as well, AE narrowly focused on American topics in his posts.

    BTW, how many languages are you proficient in?
     
    Only Arabic and English.

    I would like to learn Russian/Ukrainian, Farsi, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, French and German but can't be bothered tbh.

    Though if anyone has language learning tips that would be appreciated.

  446. For some reason, I was under the impression that you’ve been commenting at this site for a few years, but looking at your profile it seems that you’re a relatively new contributor here (onl 295 comments so far?). You’ve already helped to reinvigorate this blogsite, always including interesting comments where I seem to learn something new every day. Keep up the great work!

    BTW, how many languages are you proficient in?

  447. @Mr. Hack
    @Yahya

    For some reason, I was under the impression that you've been commenting at this site for a few years, but looking at your profile it seems that you're a relatively new contributor here (onl 295 comments so far?). You've already helped to reinvigorate this blogsite, always including interesting comments where I seem to learn something new every day. Keep up the great work!

    Replies: @Yahya

    For some reason, I was under the impression that you’ve been commenting at this site for a few years, but looking at your profile it seems that you’re a relatively new contributor here (onl 295 comments so far?).

    I have actually been commenting on Unz for 3 years now (with a year-long hiatus in between), though previously under another handle “Yahya K.” which is now hidden. I used to hang around the Audacious Epigone blog, where only I think songbird and iffen from this blog knew me. Though I have to say the commenters here are vastly more interesting and knowledgeable than AE’s crowd. I’ve been lurking around Karlin’s posts and comment section since before I started regularly commenting so was somewhat familiar with most of you, though you were not familiar with me 🙂 . I should have came here along time ago though, inexplicable why I delayed it for so long. The international focus is much to my liking as well, AE narrowly focused on American topics in his posts.

    BTW, how many languages are you proficient in?

    Only Arabic and English.

    I would like to learn Russian/Ukrainian, Farsi, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, French and German but can’t be bothered tbh.

    Though if anyone has language learning tips that would be appreciated.

  448. Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side in Bakhmut?

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Mr. Hack

    Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side in Bakhmut?

    That's Caesar, the commander of the Legion of Freedom of Russia (apparently he has some aristocratic roots from Russia and Georgia, at least that's what he claims). They have been fighting at least since the summer. They're fighting well, apparently. Btw, Caesar doesn't support the dismantling of Russia but only the removal of the tyranny. Hopefully after the war they don't lose their status (as is so common in these kinds of cases).

    There is another, smaller, exclusively right wing group that is fighting near Zaporizhzhia.

    It looks like these guys are in the most difficult spots.

    "Mama says I'm special". You bet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAWNdjscDtc

  449. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers.
     
    One of the oddities of the modern world is seeing a quasi-Islamist Gulf State, which no doubt would be placed on the far, reactionary right of the Western political spectrum, disseminate left-wing/woke talking points through their English-language media channels. Their Arabic-language channels meanwhile are known to push Islamist narratives, so the Qataris are sort of playing both sides of the spectrum, depending on the audience.

    I have to say their strategy is pretty smart. I think they know the main movers and shakers in Washington and London lean to the left so they are targeting them specifically. Seems like a more rational strategy than Russia Today which seems to cater to conspiracy theorists and anti-government types, who are of course powerless and negligible. I've only watched a few of Al Jazeera's documentaries but invariably they are well-made and aesthetically pleasing, though definitely pushing certain narratives, which of course every other media channel does as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

    Qatar has a lot of money, but one can't but help be impressed that such a tiny "nation" has outdone several large countries on the media front, even if you disagree with their politics.


    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.
     
    I'm not aware of any Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional even for them. They probably want a more patriarchal structure in society but not necessarily for women to be covered from head-to-toe, for dating to be impermissible etc.

    Women cannot drive cars.
     
    Not true. That changed in 2018.

    Wealthy men have multiple wives.
     
    Exaggeration.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle,
     
    True.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut?
     
    I haven't visited Beirut in some years so I can't say. I'm not surprised at all they built some ultra-luxurious complexes in the middle of the city. I admire the Lebanese elite for their sophistication but sometimes I do feel it's a bit forced; and building luxury shopping centers is especially egregious given how poor and deprived the rest of the population is. In Egypt we don't have these sort of areas with only Prada and Louis Vuitton type shops; the upper class are forced to co-mingle in areas with at least the upper-middle class. Though I can already spot some changes.

    Beirut's gentrification began under PM Rafik Hariri, a Saudi-Lebanese former real estate developer who recruited his executives to government and placed them as heads of redevelopment projects in Beirut. Their aim was to resuscitate the civil-war ridden Beirut into "the finest city in the world". By "finest" they also meant the most expensive, that's why even today when Lebanon's economy is in the toilet real estate prices there are equivalent to London or Hong Kong. They redeveloped the downtown area into a more luxurious setting; from what i've seen online some of the streets there look nice; but I've also read they've become ghost towns and even Starbucks and McDonalds have closed shop for a lack of visitors, never a good sign. Problem is now rich tourists like Gulf Arabs have a lot of places to go; from London to Cannes to Hong Kong to Dubai and Paris etc, Beirut is just one of many. There used to be a time when its proximity would give it a leg up; but anecdotally not many of my relatives go there anymore; whereas my grandfather would travel to Beirut every other year in the 50s-70s.

    Definitely when you are lucky enough to inherit ancient buildings and historical monuments you don't want to tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca. The universal reaction is condemnation and disgust yet city planners insist anyway for some reason, so this is a problem. Once lost you can never retrieve the gravitas accorded to a city by its ancient monuments. In Egypt they try to build these stupid pharaonic-style buildings, and they just look hideous and pathetic.


    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

     

    I think Yevardian's Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background and upbringing. Saudi Arabia is of course the birthplace of Islam, the traditional enemy of Armenians so that may play a role as well.

    One surprising thing I learnt was that Armenians aren't fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of "we merry brothers were victims of genocide together", but no. Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @sudden death, @Dmitry

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.

    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    I am not sure why you think it has anything to do with Netanyahu or Palestinian Jews. The major Israeli efforts have tried to be bi-partisan.

    Is the genocidal BDS movement against Jews:
        • Bipartisan in the U.S.?
        • Near 100% Democrat Party?

    Ilhan Omar is, “The Beacon of Islamic Values in America”. This title of unrivaled symbolism may soon pass to Rashida Tlaib. Leaders like these are making the DNC openly SJW anti-Semitic. There is not much that can done to prevent it, thus quite hard to blame Netanyahu.

    Perhaps you should phrase it as SJW Islam will learn the hard way?.
    ___

    Some here suggest that SJW Islam (Europe and America) and Gulf Islam are still fundamentally the same. That SJW is simply an “intersectional” appendage. Even if true, the subtlety of “intersectionality” is not reaching Main Street in Christian nations. Gulf Islam is going to inherit the backlash from winding up on the SJW Islam political side. Even if they do not practice SJW Islam values at home.

    The only way out of this consequence is framing SJW Islam versus Gulf Islam as open opposition and antipathy. Do you remember the intersection of Al Jazeera / Al Gore? It is hard to see how opposition can be started at this point. Islam has been infiltrating the DNC for decades.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @A123


    I am not sure why you think it has anything to do with Netanyahu or Palestinian Jews. The major Israeli efforts have tried to be bi-partisan.
     
    You have to be blind not to notice Netanyahu's overt chumminess with US Republicans during the previous years of his PM-ship; and that many Democrats are pissed with his slobbering over Trump. Just anecdotally a lot of Democrat-leaning Twitter accounts I follow have advocated for Biden to give Netanyahu a cold shoulder during his time in office.

    But you can read what establishment left-wing US publications are writing for yourself:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/03/israel-election-benjamin-netanyahu/618358/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/29/israel-government-netanyahu-biden-palestinians-arabs/

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/08/israeli-election-netanyahu-coalition-ben-gvir-biden-us-policy/

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/7/14/23206625/biden-lapid-israel-anti-democratic

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/15/israel-trump-netanyahu-1465917


    You may be right though that the US's general fecklessness and beholdeness to the Israeli lobby might be enough to keep Democrats from outright abandoning Israel. But the relationship will likely become testier as America diversifies and Democrats lean farther left.

    Replies: @A123

  450. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    If you travel there you’d quickly be inundated with a sea of Nike’s and Starbucks’;
     
    These countries have avoid Americanization much more than Europe in some ways. For example, they continue traditional Arab religion, gender relations or political structure. German Reader would be happy they are not like France having places called for American political events like "Rosa Parks street".

    But then in other areas, they resist Americanization a lot less than countries like France, Japan or Italy.

    So Italy and Japan, have the lowest obesity rates of developed countries. France has one of the lowest rates. Their daily diet and lifestyle avoided the American model, even when they play baseball or have American clothes. But Qatar was already "more America than Tennessee" with diet and lifestyle problems.

    There is a good YouTube report about the obesity problem of young people in Qatar.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwUu09-hNt4

    Replies: @Yahya

    These countries have avoid Americanization much more than Europe in some ways. For example, they continue traditional Arab religion, gender relations or political structure. German Reader would be happy they are not like France having places called for American political events like “Rosa Parks street”.

    Gulf Arab states have successfully charted the path outlined by the Meiji reformers of Japan in the 19th century; that is to modernize while maintaining one’s customs and traditions. Of course things never stay exactly the same, and the Arabian way of life has evolved to a certain extent alongside the technological advancements of the previous century. But the Kingdom remains grounded in faith and tradition to an extent that forum users debating the impact of traditionalism on fertility still automatically recourse to Saudi Arabia as an obvious example of a traditional society.

    For a formerly primitive society to successfully adapt to modernity is not as easy as you’d think. A comparison between Amerindians and Arabians bares consideration. Both were thrust from primitiveness onto modernity in a short period of time. Amerindians now live in an even more prosperous society than Saudis, yet one group lives in despondency and alcoholism, the other has adapted and avoided the pitfalls of modernity. Islam plays a large part in producing this outcome.

    I wrote a post a couple of months ago on my observations of Saudi society since MBS’s liberalization reforms. Women are no longer required to wear the hijab by law; yet during my trip to Riyadh I estimated roughly 90% of them covered their head with an Islamic scarf, though it differs among regions. Likewise, nearly all still wear the traditional Arabian female garb, the abaya, which I used to dislike but have come to view as being superior to slutty Western clothing. This is an example of how an Arabian girl can sport the abaya in a tasteful manner:

    [MORE]

    To be fair, nearly all other MENA countries are still based and grounded as well. The region, due to its proximity, has historically been susceptible to European memetic packages (and vice-versa; i.e. monotheism) and indeed almost all MENA elites are fluent in either English or French; so the region is always at risk of adopting Western mores and attitudes. But to their credit, Middle Eastern and North African countries have limited Westernization to more superficial and unimportant aspects, the only possible exception being Lebanon. This outcome too is brought about largely by anchoring influence of Islam.

  451. @showmethereal
    @songbird

    "That’s complete tosh – if the CCP were trying to save the West, they wouldn’t be constantly beating the racism drum, but would warn about migration, etc., and advocate for Europeans."

    You obviously didn't read the stories the other person referenced... What does that have to do with domestic social policy.

    Personally I think you are the one obsessed with race. Everything is race for you guys. Usually complaining that others are against your race.

    And I didn't say "save the west". I said Europe specifically... Which is the context of the issue... You think the US is for Europe's best interest???? Anglo Saxon Five Eyes above all else....

    Replies: @songbird

    You obviously didn’t read the stories the other person referenced

    You used the rather grandiose language that China is “trying to save Europe.” Implying that the primary motivation is selflessness and altruism rather than the self-motivated behavior of not wanting to see the US regime achieve its geopolitical goals, allowing China to be the next target of the regime.

    I countered that that is ridiculous as China regularly employs the cynical “racist Europeans” gambit, when it sees an advantage in it (see Wolf Warrior 2, if you don’t believe me) , and that “racist Europeans” is a meme that is destroying Europe (however weak the effect of Chinese propaganda) and that if they had a policy of “saving Europe”, then they would not be employing such a destructive meme, but would rather be trying to fight it.

    [MORE]

    Personally I think you are the one obsessed with race. Everything is race for you guys.

    Oh, great, now you are bringing out the Jordan Peterson act.

    You think that it serves Euros not to think about race, when they are on the other side of the largest invasion in history, and it is showing no signs of letting up, but rather seems to be accelerating? And when your ruling elite show every sign of supporting it, and vilify you and try to circumscribe your speech at every opportunity?

    Your sentiment is silly. It is well-known that every other group has higher ethnocentrism than Euros. The Chinese used man-catching poles on their blacks. Obviously Europeans have a deficiency in ethnocentricism which can only be ameliorated by noticing.

    You think the US is for Europe’s best interest?

    Never said it was, but using the racist meme against Americans, as China often does, is jsut pulling on strings that connect to Europe.

    In the particular case of Chinese propaganda, the effect on target is probably nil, but it is the idea that bothers me.

    • Thanks: LatW
    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @songbird

    If you looked at the context of my point you would know why I used that term. Like I said - you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.
    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable. A poorer and less stable Europe is not seen as a good thing to China.

    And It is not China who made the US an enemy. China was perfectly satisfied doing business with the US. It is the US who CHOSE to make China an enemy. You are too race obsessed. And it’s usually the racist people who complain others accuse them of such. Non racist whites don’t usually get bothered by such accusations. But carry on. I actually like the commenters on here when they do admit to being racists or white supremacists…. They usually don’t complain about being called such.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed. So I guess you take exception with them stereotyping “the bad guys” just like Hollywood. Learned from the best propagandists. So basically they took the US Intel strategy of the Soviets/Russians/Chinese/Vietnamese/North Koreans/Cubans/Arabs/Iranians etc etc of whoever is the bad guy for the decade? Ahhh - got it. So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you… Got it.

    Replies: @songbird

  452. @Philip Owen
    All but one of the Saratov newspaper publishing on line have avoided discussion of the Engels bomb. The only one that has mentioned the subject represents the largest United Russia faction. There is a picture showing teh damaged tail plane but that is not mentioned in the text which discussed the fuel truck as if it might have caught fire by itself.

    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled? Apparently it's a racial slur for white people. I rather like it.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @S

    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled?

    New ISP, new computer, sign up as a new user.

    This is not Rocket Science!

    Would certainly work for Ex lax though she could only cloak herself for three or four posts until it became obvious even to someone as clueless as myself.

  453. @A123
    @Yahya



    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.
     
    I am not sure why you think it has anything to do with Netanyahu or Palestinian Jews. The major Israeli efforts have tried to be bi-partisan.

    Is the genocidal BDS movement against Jews:
        • Bipartisan in the U.S.?
        • Near 100% Democrat Party?

    Ilhan Omar is, "The Beacon of Islamic Values in America". This title of unrivaled symbolism may soon pass to Rashida Tlaib. Leaders like these are making the DNC openly SJW anti-Semitic. There is not much that can done to prevent it, thus quite hard to blame Netanyahu.

    Perhaps you should phrase it as SJW Islam will learn the hard way?.
    ___

    Some here suggest that SJW Islam (Europe and America) and Gulf Islam are still fundamentally the same. That SJW is simply an "intersectional" appendage. Even if true, the subtlety of "intersectionality" is not reaching Main Street in Christian nations. Gulf Islam is going to inherit the backlash from winding up on the SJW Islam political side. Even if they do not practice SJW Islam values at home.

    The only way out of this consequence is framing SJW Islam versus Gulf Islam as open opposition and antipathy. Do you remember the intersection of Al Jazeera / Al Gore? It is hard to see how opposition can be started at this point. Islam has been infiltrating the DNC for decades.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Yahya

    I am not sure why you think it has anything to do with Netanyahu or Palestinian Jews. The major Israeli efforts have tried to be bi-partisan.

    You have to be blind not to notice Netanyahu’s overt chumminess with US Republicans during the previous years of his PM-ship; and that many Democrats are pissed with his slobbering over Trump. Just anecdotally a lot of Democrat-leaning Twitter accounts I follow have advocated for Biden to give Netanyahu a cold shoulder during his time in office.

    But you can read what establishment left-wing US publications are writing for yourself:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/03/israel-election-benjamin-netanyahu/618358/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/29/israel-government-netanyahu-biden-palestinians-arabs/

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/08/israeli-election-netanyahu-coalition-ben-gvir-biden-us-policy/

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/7/14/23206625/biden-lapid-israel-anti-democratic

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/15/israel-trump-netanyahu-1465917

    You may be right though that the US’s general fecklessness and beholdeness to the Israeli lobby might be enough to keep Democrats from outright abandoning Israel. But the relationship will likely become testier as America diversifies and Democrats lean farther left.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yahya


    You have to be blind not to notice Netanyahu’s overt chumminess with US Republicans during the previous years
     
    My counterpoint to that is:

    You have to be blind not to notice SJW Islam's overt chumminess with US Democrats during the previous years

    Not-The-President Biden's insane efforts to create a new JCPOA2 "deal" shows how much the DNC hates Palestinian Jews. They also keep talking about intentionally creating an international crisis by reopening an illegal "diplomatic" outpost in East Jerusalem.

    It is sort of like physics -- Political reactions have opposite reactions. The DNC's embrace of anti-Semitism and Islam is pushing Jews to the GOP in record numbers. Orthodox Jews are already a solid Red constituency.

    PEACE 😇
  454. @Sean

    https://www.newsweek.com/authors/michael-gfoeller-and-david-h-rundell

    Lessons From the U.S. Civil War Show Why Ukraine Can't Win
    During the early years of America's Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln sought a limited conflict against people he still regarded as fellow countrymen and with whom he sought reconciliation. Only after three years of stalemate did he turn to "Unconditional Surrender Grant," who in turn unleashed General William Tecumseh Sherman to "make Georgia howl" and help bring the war to its decisively violent conclusion. [...] Armies need railroads and while Sherman systematically tore up the tracks leading to Atlanta, Surovikin is destroying the electricity grid which powers Ukrainian railroads. This has left Ukrainian cities cold and dark, but Surovikin seems to agree with Sherman that "war is cruelty, and you cannot refine it." [...]

    Once Ukraine's rich black soil has firmly frozen, a massive Russian onslaught will commence. In fact, it has already begun at the important transportation hub of Bakhmut, which has become something of a Ukrainian Verdun. We expect Bakhmut to fall and predict that without much more Western support, Russia will recapture Kharkov, Kherson, and the remainder of the Donbas by next summer.
     

    Replies: @AP, @keypusher

    So the Russian fanboys have gone from Czechslovakia 1968 (few days operation) to Iraq invasion (5-6 weeks, no mass conscription necessary) to the US Civil War, which lasted 4 years but in the age of tanks and airplanes might be 2 years.

    The discrepancy in population and industrial power between the opponents is comparable. As is that of the relative quality of the soldiers and officers.

    Two crucial differences in Ukraine’s favour. Unionists seem to have been much more motivated to preserve the Union than normal Russians are to grab Ukraine. Russians might have sentimental attachment to Crimea but they don’t care who owns Dnipropetrovsk or Kherson.

    Secondly, the Confederacy was isolated. Few arms were shipped to it, both because of the Atlantic Ocean and because it’s slavery utopia wasn’t very popular. Ukraine, on the other hand, has a land border with NATO. Troubles with rail traffic isn’t the same as a blockaded ocean. And the collective West whose industrial capacity dwarfs Russia’s is pouring the latest weapons into Ukraine.

    How would the American Civil War have turned out if the Confederacy had a land border with England and Germany and if these countries were providing a constant river of bullets, cannons, horses, etc? And if the northern public who might have supported a war in the abstract, didn’t want its sons to die in Virginia fields, while Virginia boys were willing to fight to keep the Yankees out? It might have turned out differently.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AP

    So the closest analogue is not Czechoslovakia, or Iraq, or the US Civil War. It is the Polish-Soviet war.

    In the Polish-Soviet war the Soviets had not yet integrated Ukraine, the Caucuses or Central Asia so they were essentially just Russia. Soviet Russia fought with Poland, in order to conquer it; Poland hoped to liberate Ukraine.

    Poland was much smaller and less industrialised than Soviet Russia but was highly motivated to keep its independence, united, well led and was lavishly equipped by the Western powers and had easy access by land to their weapons and ammo.

    Soviet Russia got to the outskirts of Warsaw but was defeated there and driven back. In the end Poland did not achieve the maximum goal of the liberation of Kiev but it kept its independence and got about a third of Belarus, and western Ukraine (which it occupied rather than liberated).
    It was not a neutral buffer state but was free to become an ally of France.

    If this war follows that one, Russia has already been driven from Kiev’s outskirts and has made further retreats. Ukraine may not achieve is maximum goals of Crimea and Donetsk (the 1990 border) but may get back the February 2022 border, and be free to pursue its alliance with NATO. This I think will be the most likely outcome, with some territorial adjustments. Russia will probably hold onto Mariupol which will be hard to take by force, may even take a few more towns in Donetsk; if Ukraine grabs all of Kherson there will be nothing preventing it from taking parts of northern Crimea.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Sean
    @AP


    Unionists seem to have been much more motivated to preserve the Union than normal Russians are to grab Ukraine.
     
    I once saw a Southern writer say that the elite Unionist Universities were still having boat races through the Civil war, and had the South won important victories the North would have simply taken its other hand out from behind its back. "There was never any chance of the South winning that war".

    Both the Ukrainian and the Russian public have now got much more negative views of each other than when the war started. I just don't see Russia getting fed up and quitting, they are going to have to be totally defeated in the field and pushed out of Ukraine , and even then why should they not keep the war going?

  455. @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    The excuse for Russia invading Ukraine 9 months ago was to end killing, remember? How has that worked out?
     
    It’s like police operation: when you eliminate the murderer, the murders stop.

    Replies: @AP, @keypusher

    It’s like police operation: when you eliminate the murderer, the murders stop.

    Ludicrous.

    As you know, there was no meaningful fighting or killing after 2015, before Putin invaded this past February, causing thousands upon thousands of foreseeable civilian deaths.

    Since it can’t accomplish anything on the battlefield, Russia is now pinning its hopes on destroying infrastructure and freezing Ukrainian civilians, oops murderers.

  456. @songbird
    @showmethereal


    You obviously didn’t read the stories the other person referenced
     
    You used the rather grandiose language that China is "trying to save Europe." Implying that the primary motivation is selflessness and altruism rather than the self-motivated behavior of not wanting to see the US regime achieve its geopolitical goals, allowing China to be the next target of the regime.

    I countered that that is ridiculous as China regularly employs the cynical "racist Europeans" gambit, when it sees an advantage in it (see Wolf Warrior 2, if you don't believe me) , and that "racist Europeans" is a meme that is destroying Europe (however weak the effect of Chinese propaganda) and that if they had a policy of "saving Europe", then they would not be employing such a destructive meme, but would rather be trying to fight it.

    Personally I think you are the one obsessed with race. Everything is race for you guys.
     
    Oh, great, now you are bringing out the Jordan Peterson act.

    You think that it serves Euros not to think about race, when they are on the other side of the largest invasion in history, and it is showing no signs of letting up, but rather seems to be accelerating? And when your ruling elite show every sign of supporting it, and vilify you and try to circumscribe your speech at every opportunity?

    Your sentiment is silly. It is well-known that every other group has higher ethnocentrism than Euros. The Chinese used man-catching poles on their blacks. Obviously Europeans have a deficiency in ethnocentricism which can only be ameliorated by noticing.

    You think the US is for Europe’s best interest?
     
    Never said it was, but using the racist meme against Americans, as China often does, is jsut pulling on strings that connect to Europe.

    In the particular case of Chinese propaganda, the effect on target is probably nil, but it is the idea that bothers me.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    If you looked at the context of my point you would know why I used that term. Like I said – you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.
    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable. A poorer and less stable Europe is not seen as a good thing to China.

    And It is not China who made the US an enemy. China was perfectly satisfied doing business with the US. It is the US who CHOSE to make China an enemy. You are too race obsessed. And it’s usually the racist people who complain others accuse them of such. Non racist whites don’t usually get bothered by such accusations. But carry on. I actually like the commenters on here when they do admit to being racists or white supremacists…. They usually don’t complain about being called such.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed. So I guess you take exception with them stereotyping “the bad guys” just like Hollywood. Learned from the best propagandists. So basically they took the US Intel strategy of the Soviets/Russians/Chinese/Vietnamese/North Koreans/Cubans/Arabs/Iranians etc etc of whoever is the bad guy for the decade? Ahhh – got it. So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you… Got it.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @showmethereal


    Like I said – you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.
     
    You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you.

    IIRC, Bromance pegged you as not being in China, which strikes me as an astute observation. Some additional evidence for this is that you mentioned body-building. Chengdu hosted the first World's Strongest Man competition that happened in China, in 2005. At that time, body-building wasn't really a thing in China, and they had to struggle to find any plausible Chinese contestant, and struggle to find ways to keep him from being eliminated too early. The method they chose was to create a mentor relationship with a more serious candidate, who stayed in the competition longer. Granted, it is now 17 years later, and that is a long time, but I would still say that it is a fairly strong indication that you are not in China.

    Meanwhile, your boosterism of China while not living there might be considered to suggest that you are something of a hypocrite, when it comes to thinking about race. Unless it is purely ideological, but I would guess not.

    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable
     
    Why is your thinking so manichean? Haven't you ever heard of nuance? Self-interested does not necessarily mean the maximization of harm. There are cases where it can lead to good, or the benefit of others, but we still shouldn't delude ourselves that it is altruism.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed.
     
    I wouldn't say this is an accurate characterization. The first film has strong nationalist themes, with racial undertones. Certainly not like anything Hollywood has ever made. That makes it a unique and mildly entertaining film, even if it may not be the best action movie ever made.

    The second film is trash, as it basically drops these themes, to take up virtue-signaling, but it is still quite interesting on a sociological level, even if it fails on a workmanship or entertainment level.

    So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you
     
    Wouldn't say that I am the biggest booster of Hollywood here.

    Replies: @showmethereal, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  457. @Sean

    https://www.newsweek.com/authors/michael-gfoeller-and-david-h-rundell

    Lessons From the U.S. Civil War Show Why Ukraine Can't Win
    During the early years of America's Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln sought a limited conflict against people he still regarded as fellow countrymen and with whom he sought reconciliation. Only after three years of stalemate did he turn to "Unconditional Surrender Grant," who in turn unleashed General William Tecumseh Sherman to "make Georgia howl" and help bring the war to its decisively violent conclusion. [...] Armies need railroads and while Sherman systematically tore up the tracks leading to Atlanta, Surovikin is destroying the electricity grid which powers Ukrainian railroads. This has left Ukrainian cities cold and dark, but Surovikin seems to agree with Sherman that "war is cruelty, and you cannot refine it." [...]

    Once Ukraine's rich black soil has firmly frozen, a massive Russian onslaught will commence. In fact, it has already begun at the important transportation hub of Bakhmut, which has become something of a Ukrainian Verdun. We expect Bakhmut to fall and predict that without much more Western support, Russia will recapture Kharkov, Kherson, and the remainder of the Donbas by next summer.
     

    Replies: @AP, @keypusher

    In fact, it has already begun at the important transportation hub of Bakhmut, which has become something of a Ukrainian Verdun.

    I wonder if the authors know who won the battle of Verdun. The only thing better would have been if they’d called it a Ukrainian Stalingrad.

    Launch an offensive, fail, keep trying, keep failing, you can always tell yourself you’re fighting a brilliant battle of attrition, you’re doing a Verdun. History is a minefield of seductive analogies.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @keypusher

    The original concept of the battle of Verdun was a battle of attrition but the fact is Russia is too big for Ukraine and Russia could successfully wage attrition warfare against Ukraine and win as long as the there are less than three Russians killed for every Ukrainian.


    The only hope of Ukraine is Russia quitting because the going has got too tough, but them still being there fighting and progressively intensifying and mobilising would seem to show that for the Russians seeing retreat is power-politically unfeasible. Russia's motivation being originally opportunist is now dubious. The Kremlin did underestimate how difficult it was going to be, but I think it is now clear that they have no intention of withdrawing without victory no matter what challenges they continue to encounter.

    Replies: @keypusher

  458. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Killing 7,000 in order to prevent 12 is an exponentially worse crime.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes. Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment, or do you not? If not, discussing anything with you is pointless.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted. If they were not, Ukraine is as lawless as a jungle.

    per UN.

    The credibility of an organization that pretends not to know who is shelling Zaporozhye nuclear power plant is exactly zero. Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    • Replies: @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN

    Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    Have thousands of civilians, Ukrainian and Russian, been killed since February 24? Yes or no?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes
     
    That's because you lack objectivity. Of those 12, 10 were killed by Ukrainian forces and 2 by Donbas forces. Naturally you will claim that both of the ones killed by the Donbas side were human shields and not a single one of the people killed by Kiev forces were.

    Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment
     
    I do. In some cases the criminals needing to be punished are Donbas rebels when they fire out of populated areas, drawing return fire into them, in other cases Kiev soldiers should be punished if they are shooting indiscriminately. Both situations are war crimes.

    The ultimate fault, of course, is Russia. It made the civil war possible by pouring arms and volunteers into Ukraine, turning protests and a civil disturbance into a full-fledged war. Russia did to Ukraine what the West, Turkey and Saudia Arabia did to Syria. West gave Syria ISIS, Russia sent its Girkin and Pavlov "Motorola" and their fighters into Ukraine.

    But the bottom line is that 12 people were killed in 2021. Russia's invasion, made for the excuse of stopping the 12 people killed in 2021, has already caused about 7,000 killings.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted
     
    Are you suggesting that not finding Buzina's killers justifies invading Ukraine and killing 7,000 and more? There are some unsolved murders of inconvenient people in Russia also. Should Russian cities also be bombed?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  459. @Yahya
    @A123


    I am not sure why you think it has anything to do with Netanyahu or Palestinian Jews. The major Israeli efforts have tried to be bi-partisan.
     
    You have to be blind not to notice Netanyahu's overt chumminess with US Republicans during the previous years of his PM-ship; and that many Democrats are pissed with his slobbering over Trump. Just anecdotally a lot of Democrat-leaning Twitter accounts I follow have advocated for Biden to give Netanyahu a cold shoulder during his time in office.

    But you can read what establishment left-wing US publications are writing for yourself:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/03/israel-election-benjamin-netanyahu/618358/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/29/israel-government-netanyahu-biden-palestinians-arabs/

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/08/israeli-election-netanyahu-coalition-ben-gvir-biden-us-policy/

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/7/14/23206625/biden-lapid-israel-anti-democratic

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/15/israel-trump-netanyahu-1465917


    You may be right though that the US's general fecklessness and beholdeness to the Israeli lobby might be enough to keep Democrats from outright abandoning Israel. But the relationship will likely become testier as America diversifies and Democrats lean farther left.

    Replies: @A123

    You have to be blind not to notice Netanyahu’s overt chumminess with US Republicans during the previous years

    My counterpoint to that is:

    You have to be blind not to notice SJW Islam’s overt chumminess with US Democrats during the previous years

    Not-The-President Biden’s insane efforts to create a new JCPOA2 “deal” shows how much the DNC hates Palestinian Jews. They also keep talking about intentionally creating an international crisis by reopening an illegal “diplomatic” outpost in East Jerusalem.

    It is sort of like physics — Political reactions have opposite reactions. The DNC’s embrace of anti-Semitism and Islam is pushing Jews to the GOP in record numbers. Orthodox Jews are already a solid Red constituency.

    PEACE 😇

  460. @Mikel
    @showmethereal


    I wonder what the average life expectancy of a body builder is
     
    The crucial thing here is if the bodybuilder is clean (no steroids, hormones, etc) or unclean. Many of the compounds that bodybuilders take are very damaging for long-term health but I would expect a clean bodybuilder to live longer than the average. They eat rather healthy diets, don't smoke or abuse alcohol and anaerobic exercise, while not as good as aerobic for general health, also provides benefits, one of them being the muscle mass that is so important in old age, as I discussed in my previous comment. I don't think there are too many clean bodybuilders though.

    On the other hand, exercising and dieting to maximize muscle mass is not the optimum strategy if your goal is to maximize lifespan. You would rather need to focus on aerobic exercise while trying to maintain muscle mass, which may be difficult if you overdo it, as the physiques of marathon runners show. There are different hallmarks of aging at a cellular level but an important one is the accumulation of dead and senescent cells. This can be delayed with the process of autophagy: forcing your organism to use these damaged cells for metabolism instead of exterior nutrients. Autophagy is achieved through caloric restriction (the best known method to extend lifespan in all sorts of organisms, from yeast to mammals), intermittent fasting and strong aerobic exercise. Bodybuilders that eat constant protein-rich food and only practice moderate aerobics, if at all, are giving up this important longevity tool, although the caloric restriction during the "cutting" phase should provide some of it.

    I am by no means an expert on any of this though. I'm just relaying what I believe is the latest scientific understanding. If AnonfromTN regularly works with plasmids, as he explained above, he is the one person who should be commenting on all this.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Mostly agreed. I had a relative who was an amateur bodybuilder— for a few years. Gave it up. I don’t know if he was “dirty”… but I know he wasn’t too keen on taking supplements overall. He’s healthy now and only does minor strength training. His passion was for football (soccer).
    But yeah marathon runners I don’t know their average life expectancy … but I know several. They all have joint problems though. Pushing the body to too many extremes over time will always cause some type of ailments. Moderation is always best it seems to me. The longest living people I personally knew (wi th best quality of life) were not highly trained “athletes”. They were people who grew up rural and lived part of their lives in urban environments. Believed in walking and not using machines for much. Did things by hand and physically active. Ate as fresh as they could and never too much. Didn’t have to live on pills from the doctor as they got old. Minds were still sharp – even as short term memory failed.

    On the other hand the best fighters I knew were generally lean (a reason many boxing trainers discourage a lot of weight lifting)…. So I never understood the obsession of some with bulk and mass…

  461. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers.
     
    One of the oddities of the modern world is seeing a quasi-Islamist Gulf State, which no doubt would be placed on the far, reactionary right of the Western political spectrum, disseminate left-wing/woke talking points through their English-language media channels. Their Arabic-language channels meanwhile are known to push Islamist narratives, so the Qataris are sort of playing both sides of the spectrum, depending on the audience.

    I have to say their strategy is pretty smart. I think they know the main movers and shakers in Washington and London lean to the left so they are targeting them specifically. Seems like a more rational strategy than Russia Today which seems to cater to conspiracy theorists and anti-government types, who are of course powerless and negligible. I've only watched a few of Al Jazeera's documentaries but invariably they are well-made and aesthetically pleasing, though definitely pushing certain narratives, which of course every other media channel does as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

    Qatar has a lot of money, but one can't but help be impressed that such a tiny "nation" has outdone several large countries on the media front, even if you disagree with their politics.


    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.
     
    I'm not aware of any Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional even for them. They probably want a more patriarchal structure in society but not necessarily for women to be covered from head-to-toe, for dating to be impermissible etc.

    Women cannot drive cars.
     
    Not true. That changed in 2018.

    Wealthy men have multiple wives.
     
    Exaggeration.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle,
     
    True.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut?
     
    I haven't visited Beirut in some years so I can't say. I'm not surprised at all they built some ultra-luxurious complexes in the middle of the city. I admire the Lebanese elite for their sophistication but sometimes I do feel it's a bit forced; and building luxury shopping centers is especially egregious given how poor and deprived the rest of the population is. In Egypt we don't have these sort of areas with only Prada and Louis Vuitton type shops; the upper class are forced to co-mingle in areas with at least the upper-middle class. Though I can already spot some changes.

    Beirut's gentrification began under PM Rafik Hariri, a Saudi-Lebanese former real estate developer who recruited his executives to government and placed them as heads of redevelopment projects in Beirut. Their aim was to resuscitate the civil-war ridden Beirut into "the finest city in the world". By "finest" they also meant the most expensive, that's why even today when Lebanon's economy is in the toilet real estate prices there are equivalent to London or Hong Kong. They redeveloped the downtown area into a more luxurious setting; from what i've seen online some of the streets there look nice; but I've also read they've become ghost towns and even Starbucks and McDonalds have closed shop for a lack of visitors, never a good sign. Problem is now rich tourists like Gulf Arabs have a lot of places to go; from London to Cannes to Hong Kong to Dubai and Paris etc, Beirut is just one of many. There used to be a time when its proximity would give it a leg up; but anecdotally not many of my relatives go there anymore; whereas my grandfather would travel to Beirut every other year in the 50s-70s.

    Definitely when you are lucky enough to inherit ancient buildings and historical monuments you don't want to tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca. The universal reaction is condemnation and disgust yet city planners insist anyway for some reason, so this is a problem. Once lost you can never retrieve the gravitas accorded to a city by its ancient monuments. In Egypt they try to build these stupid pharaonic-style buildings, and they just look hideous and pathetic.


    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

     

    I think Yevardian's Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background and upbringing. Saudi Arabia is of course the birthplace of Islam, the traditional enemy of Armenians so that may play a role as well.

    One surprising thing I learnt was that Armenians aren't fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of "we merry brothers were victims of genocide together", but no. Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @sudden death, @Dmitry

    Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    One more example of competitive victimhood, guess Jews might share the mutual feeling at least to some degree, IIRC Israel doesn’t recognize Armenian case in WWI Turkey as genocide case.

  462. @AP
    @Sean

    So the Russian fanboys have gone from Czechslovakia 1968 (few days operation) to Iraq invasion (5-6 weeks, no mass conscription necessary) to the US Civil War, which lasted 4 years but in the age of tanks and airplanes might be 2 years.

    The discrepancy in population and industrial power between the opponents is comparable. As is that of the relative quality of the soldiers and officers.

    Two crucial differences in Ukraine’s favour. Unionists seem to have been much more motivated to preserve the Union than normal Russians are to grab Ukraine. Russians might have sentimental attachment to Crimea but they don’t care who owns Dnipropetrovsk or Kherson.

    Secondly, the Confederacy was isolated. Few arms were shipped to it, both because of the Atlantic Ocean and because it’s slavery utopia wasn’t very popular. Ukraine, on the other hand, has a land border with NATO. Troubles with rail traffic isn’t the same as a blockaded ocean. And the collective West whose industrial capacity dwarfs Russia’s is pouring the latest weapons into Ukraine.

    How would the American Civil War have turned out if the Confederacy had a land border with England and Germany and if these countries were providing a constant river of bullets, cannons, horses, etc? And if the northern public who might have supported a war in the abstract, didn’t want its sons to die in Virginia fields, while Virginia boys were willing to fight to keep the Yankees out? It might have turned out differently.

    Replies: @AP, @Sean

    So the closest analogue is not Czechoslovakia, or Iraq, or the US Civil War. It is the Polish-Soviet war.

    In the Polish-Soviet war the Soviets had not yet integrated Ukraine, the Caucuses or Central Asia so they were essentially just Russia. Soviet Russia fought with Poland, in order to conquer it; Poland hoped to liberate Ukraine.

    Poland was much smaller and less industrialised than Soviet Russia but was highly motivated to keep its independence, united, well led and was lavishly equipped by the Western powers and had easy access by land to their weapons and ammo.

    Soviet Russia got to the outskirts of Warsaw but was defeated there and driven back. In the end Poland did not achieve the maximum goal of the liberation of Kiev but it kept its independence and got about a third of Belarus, and western Ukraine (which it occupied rather than liberated).
    It was not a neutral buffer state but was free to become an ally of France.

    If this war follows that one, Russia has already been driven from Kiev’s outskirts and has made further retreats. Ukraine may not achieve is maximum goals of Crimea and Donetsk (the 1990 border) but may get back the February 2022 border, and be free to pursue its alliance with NATO. This I think will be the most likely outcome, with some territorial adjustments. Russia will probably hold onto Mariupol which will be hard to take by force, may even take a few more towns in Donetsk; if Ukraine grabs all of Kherson there will be nothing preventing it from taking parts of northern Crimea.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    The 1990 borders in Donbas were roughly controlled by both adversaries 50/50. Do you think that it would be wise to leave the new adjusted borders to roughly this same configuration? Leaving the real possibility by both sides to ratchet up future propaganda to include "reuniting Donbas" for either party involved?

    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future. Ukrainians, as you likely know, would like to make this the war that their children no longer have to fight again down the road...

    Replies: @Beckow, @AP

  463. @German_reader
    @Yahya


    Also wondering if previously prolific commentors like Bashibuzuk, HenryBaker, reiner_Tor, Blinky Bill, Yellowface Anon, TheTotallyAnonymous etc. are till lurking around, perhaps they would let us know.
     
    I very much doubt it for reiner tor, I suppose he's busy with private matters, maybe also feels despair at the international situation. I might try sending him an email at the end of this year, though I suppose he's got his reasons for having "disappeared", which one should respect. Still a pity, one of the best commenters here.

    Also we may have some (semi)eminent lurkers reading these threads; Richard Hannania once linked to a Scott Alexander post quoting one of Thorfinnsson trashposts on Ukraine:
     
    LOL.

    I think all of us need to do our part in keeping this blog alive, perhaps by introducing new topics
     
    I might post a list of books read this year at year's end, with short comments about whether I'd recommend them or not. Can't think of anything else tbh, and if this comments section eventually dies, then it can't be helped. It had a good run in any case.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Yevardian, @showmethereal

    I see in the news there is a big police bust in Germany against “Reichsbuerger”. They arrested about 25 and say they have about 20,000 adherents. How popular at they really? And are they really “extremists” or not?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    there is a big police bust in Germany
     
    If memory serves, there was a big police bust in Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  464. @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Yeah I can understand because of the atom bombs Japan is still in a state of shock. In the 80's and 90's it did everything the US told it to do (giving up semiconductor tech to signing the Plaza Accords).... But I don't get why Europe is willingly sacrificing itself for US interests. It baffles me.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    because of the atom bombs Japan is still in a state of shock

    Here is an undeniable fact, the mention of which makes hypocrites cringe and start babbling incoherent BS. Nukes were used as a weapon of war for the first (and so far the last) time more than 77 years ago. On August 6, 1945, Hiroshima was nuked. Three days later, on August 9, 1945, Nagasaki was nuked.

    Only one country in the world used nukes against humans. It was not Pakistan, India, NK, or even Israel. By the most conservative estimates, more than 100,000 civilians were killed by these bombings. Nobody was ever punished for these crimes.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Yeah but Japanese lives don’t count. Expect now when they want to use Japan for their own purposes. But forget just the nukes. Tokyo was firebombed to the ground and even more civilians died. It’s only war crimes depending on who gets killed. Iraqi children didn’t count…. But Putin is now a war criminal…. Go figure

  465. @showmethereal
    @German_reader

    I see in the news there is a big police bust in Germany against “Reichsbuerger”. They arrested about 25 and say they have about 20,000 adherents. How popular at they really? And are they really “extremists” or not?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    there is a big police bust in Germany

    If memory serves, there was a big police bust in Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Yeah in all seriousness the report said it translates to “Friends of the Reich” and does not believe the current German state is valid. But I know not to just go by everything in western media. Or it could be the reverse and they could have 200k followed instead of 20k…

  466. So once again, the candidate supported by Trump for the Senate in Georgia has lost to his Democratic rival in a traditionally deep red state where the Republicans did win the races for Governor, Secretary of State and a majority of House seats a month ago. And why did Trump endorse this lightweight candidate? Other than his appearance in his Apprentice show where they seem to have become friends, no other great merits are known. Typical Trump behavior.

    The Democrats having 51 sets in the Senate instead of 50 is important. Now it won’t be possible to block legislation if one Democrat defects, as had been happening with Munchin.

    In the meantime, only in the first two years of the Biden administration some 5 million undocumented immigrants from 3rd World countries have crossed the southern border. 5 million people is enough to replace the populations of several Western states. Many more are sure to come and basically none of them will ever be deported.

    Even though I don’t have a great opinion of Trump the person, I would have been very happy if we had seen a red wave of MAGA candidates winning in the midterm elections but that didn’t happen at all outside of Florida. Many Trump-endorsed candidates lost their races. All of this explains by itself which candidate the Republicans should not choose for the 2024 presidential elections. Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mikel


    Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.
     
    No. There are many diverse lines of foolishness in the human spectrum.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @AP
    @Mikel

    I voted for Trump vs. Biden but since his loss he has been terrible for the country. His efforts have now given the Democrats two senate majorities. All of his wins have been in safe Republican seats, where his candidate won by lower margins than should have been. And he has lost what should have been safe victories. I would be surprised if he goes to jail before the next election, he is just too useful for the Democrats, he has an important role to play for them.

    , @A123
    @Mikel


    Many Trump-endorsed candidates lost their races. All of this explains by itself which candidate the Republicans should not choose for the 2024 presidential elections.
     
    The only DeSantis endorsed candidate Joe O'Dea lost his race, badly. Under the "Mikel Endorsement Rule [MER]" this explains why the Republicans cannot possibly choose DeSantis for the 2024 presidential elections.

    Who are you supporting that has an endorsement record better than Trump's national record (235 victories and 29 losses, ~90% success)? DeSantis 0% success national record is obviously instantly disqualifying under MER.

    Or, are you going go full hypocrite using one MER standard for Trump, but deploying wildly divergent, #NeverTrump criteria for other candidates.

    PEACE 😇
  467. Max Kaiser (sorry): Sam Bankman Fried = Bernie Madoff X Charles Manson.

    [MORE]

  468. @Mikel
    So once again, the candidate supported by Trump for the Senate in Georgia has lost to his Democratic rival in a traditionally deep red state where the Republicans did win the races for Governor, Secretary of State and a majority of House seats a month ago. And why did Trump endorse this lightweight candidate? Other than his appearance in his Apprentice show where they seem to have become friends, no other great merits are known. Typical Trump behavior.

    The Democrats having 51 sets in the Senate instead of 50 is important. Now it won't be possible to block legislation if one Democrat defects, as had been happening with Munchin.

    In the meantime, only in the first two years of the Biden administration some 5 million undocumented immigrants from 3rd World countries have crossed the southern border. 5 million people is enough to replace the populations of several Western states. Many more are sure to come and basically none of them will ever be deported.

    Even though I don't have a great opinion of Trump the person, I would have been very happy if we had seen a red wave of MAGA candidates winning in the midterm elections but that didn't happen at all outside of Florida. Many Trump-endorsed candidates lost their races. All of this explains by itself which candidate the Republicans should not choose for the 2024 presidential elections. Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP, @A123

    Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.

    No. There are many diverse lines of foolishness in the human spectrum.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    There are many diverse lines of foolishness in the human spectrum.
     
    Touché!
  469. @showmethereal
    @songbird

    If you looked at the context of my point you would know why I used that term. Like I said - you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.
    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable. A poorer and less stable Europe is not seen as a good thing to China.

    And It is not China who made the US an enemy. China was perfectly satisfied doing business with the US. It is the US who CHOSE to make China an enemy. You are too race obsessed. And it’s usually the racist people who complain others accuse them of such. Non racist whites don’t usually get bothered by such accusations. But carry on. I actually like the commenters on here when they do admit to being racists or white supremacists…. They usually don’t complain about being called such.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed. So I guess you take exception with them stereotyping “the bad guys” just like Hollywood. Learned from the best propagandists. So basically they took the US Intel strategy of the Soviets/Russians/Chinese/Vietnamese/North Koreans/Cubans/Arabs/Iranians etc etc of whoever is the bad guy for the decade? Ahhh - got it. So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you… Got it.

    Replies: @songbird

    Like I said – you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.

    You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you.

    [MORE]

    IIRC, Bromance pegged you as not being in China, which strikes me as an astute observation. Some additional evidence for this is that you mentioned body-building. Chengdu hosted the first World’s Strongest Man competition that happened in China, in 2005. At that time, body-building wasn’t really a thing in China, and they had to struggle to find any plausible Chinese contestant, and struggle to find ways to keep him from being eliminated too early. The method they chose was to create a mentor relationship with a more serious candidate, who stayed in the competition longer. Granted, it is now 17 years later, and that is a long time, but I would still say that it is a fairly strong indication that you are not in China.

    Meanwhile, your boosterism of China while not living there might be considered to suggest that you are something of a hypocrite, when it comes to thinking about race. Unless it is purely ideological, but I would guess not.

    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable

    Why is your thinking so manichean? Haven’t you ever heard of nuance? Self-interested does not necessarily mean the maximization of harm. There are cases where it can lead to good, or the benefit of others, but we still shouldn’t delude ourselves that it is altruism.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed.

    I wouldn’t say this is an accurate characterization. The first film has strong nationalist themes, with racial undertones. Certainly not like anything Hollywood has ever made. That makes it a unique and mildly entertaining film, even if it may not be the best action movie ever made.

    The second film is trash, as it basically drops these themes, to take up virtue-signaling, but it is still quite interesting on a sociological level, even if it fails on a workmanship or entertainment level.

    So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you

    Wouldn’t say that I am the biggest booster of Hollywood here.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @songbird

    "You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you"

    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn't care less about your personal details... Nor do I care if you get bored with me or not. You are not a source of my entertainment. Frankly I find people like you weird. If you want personal info go find a dating forum.... From what I hear a lot of those people lie too. Your racial obsessions are actually boring to me. I'm on here to discuss geopolitics.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    Bromance pegged you as not being in China
     
    No I didn't. I gave him a Turing test on Chinese literacy, identify a passage from calligraphy-- and he failed, he/it can't even read off of the characters and google the passage.

    https://i.postimg.cc/DybxsJXy/ea852f1db8fdd385.jpg

    And ChatGPT cannot do this, reading Chinese calligraphy is a working problem in computer vision.

    This is what I told Professor from TN-- "Personal anecdotes told by Joe/Ivan/Chang over the internet" cannot be falsified.

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch! -- Wolfgang Pauli

    "Joe/Ivan/Chang behind alias over the internet can not read Chinese" can be falsified by answering the challenge I gave.

    If he/it can not read Chinese, but can find someone looking over his shoulders who can, that statement above is still falsified, but evidently that's not even the case.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

  470. @Mikel
    So once again, the candidate supported by Trump for the Senate in Georgia has lost to his Democratic rival in a traditionally deep red state where the Republicans did win the races for Governor, Secretary of State and a majority of House seats a month ago. And why did Trump endorse this lightweight candidate? Other than his appearance in his Apprentice show where they seem to have become friends, no other great merits are known. Typical Trump behavior.

    The Democrats having 51 sets in the Senate instead of 50 is important. Now it won't be possible to block legislation if one Democrat defects, as had been happening with Munchin.

    In the meantime, only in the first two years of the Biden administration some 5 million undocumented immigrants from 3rd World countries have crossed the southern border. 5 million people is enough to replace the populations of several Western states. Many more are sure to come and basically none of them will ever be deported.

    Even though I don't have a great opinion of Trump the person, I would have been very happy if we had seen a red wave of MAGA candidates winning in the midterm elections but that didn't happen at all outside of Florida. Many Trump-endorsed candidates lost their races. All of this explains by itself which candidate the Republicans should not choose for the 2024 presidential elections. Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP, @A123

    I voted for Trump vs. Biden but since his loss he has been terrible for the country. His efforts have now given the Democrats two senate majorities. All of his wins have been in safe Republican seats, where his candidate won by lower margins than should have been. And he has lost what should have been safe victories. I would be surprised if he goes to jail before the next election, he is just too useful for the Democrats, he has an important role to play for them.

    • Agree: Mikel
  471. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mikel


    Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.
     
    No. There are many diverse lines of foolishness in the human spectrum.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    There are many diverse lines of foolishness in the human spectrum.

    Touché!

  472. @keypusher
    @Sean


    In fact, it has already begun at the important transportation hub of Bakhmut, which has become something of a Ukrainian Verdun.
     
    I wonder if the authors know who won the battle of Verdun. The only thing better would have been if they'd called it a Ukrainian Stalingrad.

    Launch an offensive, fail, keep trying, keep failing, you can always tell yourself you're fighting a brilliant battle of attrition, you're doing a Verdun. History is a minefield of seductive analogies.

    Replies: @Sean

    The original concept of the battle of Verdun was a battle of attrition but the fact is Russia is too big for Ukraine and Russia could successfully wage attrition warfare against Ukraine and win as long as the there are less than three Russians killed for every Ukrainian.

    The only hope of Ukraine is Russia quitting because the going has got too tough, but them still being there fighting and progressively intensifying and mobilising would seem to show that for the Russians seeing retreat is power-politically unfeasible. Russia’s motivation being originally opportunist is now dubious. The Kremlin did underestimate how difficult it was going to be, but I think it is now clear that they have no intention of withdrawing without victory no matter what challenges they continue to encounter.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    @Sean


    The original concept of the battle of Verdun was a battle of attrition but the fact is Russia is too big for Ukraine and Russia could successfully wage attrition warfare against Ukraine and win as long as the there are less than three Russians killed for every Ukrainian.

     

    The reason for doubting this is that the armies and casualties on both sides are rather small. Total Ukrainian military casualties -- not killed, casualties -- are supposed to be 100,000 or so. At that rate it will take a long time to run out of Ukrainians, unless freezing them works.

    I once saw a graph of Soviet (which included Ukrainian, of course) casualties during World War II. In the summer of 1941 it was something like 15,000 a day. It dropped after that, but remained in the thousands for the entire war.

    Russia and Ukraine are no doubt decrepit and enfeebled societies compared to the USSR in 1941 (the same could be said of just about any European/white society), but even apart from that, the deadliness of modern munitions probably puts a fairly low limit on the density of troops that can be usefully deployed.

    Replies: @LondonBob

  473. @AP
    @AP

    So the closest analogue is not Czechoslovakia, or Iraq, or the US Civil War. It is the Polish-Soviet war.

    In the Polish-Soviet war the Soviets had not yet integrated Ukraine, the Caucuses or Central Asia so they were essentially just Russia. Soviet Russia fought with Poland, in order to conquer it; Poland hoped to liberate Ukraine.

    Poland was much smaller and less industrialised than Soviet Russia but was highly motivated to keep its independence, united, well led and was lavishly equipped by the Western powers and had easy access by land to their weapons and ammo.

    Soviet Russia got to the outskirts of Warsaw but was defeated there and driven back. In the end Poland did not achieve the maximum goal of the liberation of Kiev but it kept its independence and got about a third of Belarus, and western Ukraine (which it occupied rather than liberated).
    It was not a neutral buffer state but was free to become an ally of France.

    If this war follows that one, Russia has already been driven from Kiev’s outskirts and has made further retreats. Ukraine may not achieve is maximum goals of Crimea and Donetsk (the 1990 border) but may get back the February 2022 border, and be free to pursue its alliance with NATO. This I think will be the most likely outcome, with some territorial adjustments. Russia will probably hold onto Mariupol which will be hard to take by force, may even take a few more towns in Donetsk; if Ukraine grabs all of Kherson there will be nothing preventing it from taking parts of northern Crimea.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The 1990 borders in Donbas were roughly controlled by both adversaries 50/50. Do you think that it would be wise to leave the new adjusted borders to roughly this same configuration? Leaving the real possibility by both sides to ratchet up future propaganda to include “reuniting Donbas” for either party involved?

    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future. Ukrainians, as you likely know, would like to make this the war that their children no longer have to fight again down the road…

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Ukrainians are not united, that's why there is this civil war - with outsiders supporting their side: Russians support the Russian-like Ukies and the West (Poland, emigres, Nato...) their more-Ukie Ukies.

    Your musings about "further confrontation in the future" are besides the point: the Ukie side is weaker and can only fight if they keep on getting unconditional unlimited Western help and if Russia refrains from using its regional dominance. Both conditions are likely to change to Kiev's disadvantage. (If they don't there will be a stalemate, not a Kiev win.)

    Russia is waiting to be fully ready, or to get the West more economically (and emotionally) exhausted. Or for the World Cup to be over, maybe Christmas. In any case, Russia's dominance has not changed - they can unleash it any day. It would be very ugly, but with the endless Western demonization, what difference would it make?

    If you claim that your enemy is the devil ('Hitler'?), what do they lose by acting like one? That's what Kiev-West have not thought through - or maybe they want the unlimited onslaught, it would end it, it would get them out of the un-winnable situation.

    Replies: @Sean

    , @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    The February borders were good in that they corresponded to ethnic majorities.


    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future
     
    If both sides are sick of fighting and Ukraine holds northern Crimea it can be exchanged for Mariupol or some other places Russia would be holding that Ukraine wasn’t able to take back by force, as part of a comprehensive peace deal.

    Replies: @QCIC

  474. @Mikel
    So once again, the candidate supported by Trump for the Senate in Georgia has lost to his Democratic rival in a traditionally deep red state where the Republicans did win the races for Governor, Secretary of State and a majority of House seats a month ago. And why did Trump endorse this lightweight candidate? Other than his appearance in his Apprentice show where they seem to have become friends, no other great merits are known. Typical Trump behavior.

    The Democrats having 51 sets in the Senate instead of 50 is important. Now it won't be possible to block legislation if one Democrat defects, as had been happening with Munchin.

    In the meantime, only in the first two years of the Biden administration some 5 million undocumented immigrants from 3rd World countries have crossed the southern border. 5 million people is enough to replace the populations of several Western states. Many more are sure to come and basically none of them will ever be deported.

    Even though I don't have a great opinion of Trump the person, I would have been very happy if we had seen a red wave of MAGA candidates winning in the midterm elections but that didn't happen at all outside of Florida. Many Trump-endorsed candidates lost their races. All of this explains by itself which candidate the Republicans should not choose for the 2024 presidential elections. Only people deeply in denial or indifferent to the border catastrophe that will change the demographic composition of the US forever can possibly disagree.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP, @A123

    Many Trump-endorsed candidates lost their races. All of this explains by itself which candidate the Republicans should not choose for the 2024 presidential elections.

    The only DeSantis endorsed candidate Joe O’Dea lost his race, badly. Under the “Mikel Endorsement Rule [MER]” this explains why the Republicans cannot possibly choose DeSantis for the 2024 presidential elections.

    Who are you supporting that has an endorsement record better than Trump’s national record (235 victories and 29 losses, ~90% success)? DeSantis 0% success national record is obviously instantly disqualifying under MER.

    Or, are you going go full hypocrite using one MER standard for Trump, but deploying wildly divergent, #NeverTrump criteria for other candidates.

    PEACE 😇

  475. @AP
    @Sean

    So the Russian fanboys have gone from Czechslovakia 1968 (few days operation) to Iraq invasion (5-6 weeks, no mass conscription necessary) to the US Civil War, which lasted 4 years but in the age of tanks and airplanes might be 2 years.

    The discrepancy in population and industrial power between the opponents is comparable. As is that of the relative quality of the soldiers and officers.

    Two crucial differences in Ukraine’s favour. Unionists seem to have been much more motivated to preserve the Union than normal Russians are to grab Ukraine. Russians might have sentimental attachment to Crimea but they don’t care who owns Dnipropetrovsk or Kherson.

    Secondly, the Confederacy was isolated. Few arms were shipped to it, both because of the Atlantic Ocean and because it’s slavery utopia wasn’t very popular. Ukraine, on the other hand, has a land border with NATO. Troubles with rail traffic isn’t the same as a blockaded ocean. And the collective West whose industrial capacity dwarfs Russia’s is pouring the latest weapons into Ukraine.

    How would the American Civil War have turned out if the Confederacy had a land border with England and Germany and if these countries were providing a constant river of bullets, cannons, horses, etc? And if the northern public who might have supported a war in the abstract, didn’t want its sons to die in Virginia fields, while Virginia boys were willing to fight to keep the Yankees out? It might have turned out differently.

    Replies: @AP, @Sean

    Unionists seem to have been much more motivated to preserve the Union than normal Russians are to grab Ukraine.

    I once saw a Southern writer say that the elite Unionist Universities were still having boat races through the Civil war, and had the South won important victories the North would have simply taken its other hand out from behind its back. “There was never any chance of the South winning that war”.

    Both the Ukrainian and the Russian public have now got much more negative views of each other than when the war started. I just don’t see Russia getting fed up and quitting, they are going to have to be totally defeated in the field and pushed out of Ukraine , and even then why should they not keep the war going?

  476. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    The 1990 borders in Donbas were roughly controlled by both adversaries 50/50. Do you think that it would be wise to leave the new adjusted borders to roughly this same configuration? Leaving the real possibility by both sides to ratchet up future propaganda to include "reuniting Donbas" for either party involved?

    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future. Ukrainians, as you likely know, would like to make this the war that their children no longer have to fight again down the road...

    Replies: @Beckow, @AP

    Ukrainians are not united, that’s why there is this civil war – with outsiders supporting their side: Russians support the Russian-like Ukies and the West (Poland, emigres, Nato…) their more-Ukie Ukies.

    Your musings about “further confrontation in the future” are besides the point: the Ukie side is weaker and can only fight if they keep on getting unconditional unlimited Western help and if Russia refrains from using its regional dominance. Both conditions are likely to change to Kiev’s disadvantage. (If they don’t there will be a stalemate, not a Kiev win.)

    Russia is waiting to be fully ready, or to get the West more economically (and emotionally) exhausted. Or for the World Cup to be over, maybe Christmas. In any case, Russia’s dominance has not changed – they can unleash it any day. It would be very ugly, but with the endless Western demonization, what difference would it make?

    If you claim that your enemy is the devil (‘Hitler’?), what do they lose by acting like one? That’s what Kiev-West have not thought through – or maybe they want the unlimited onslaught, it would end it, it would get them out of the un-winnable situation.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Beckow

    What tends to be assumed in much jingoistic commentary that after Ukraine (hypothetically) gets its lost territories back Russia will just throw up its hands and quit, but that is very unlikely. Crimea always was basically Russian and given all the Russian speakers who have been moved there from Kherson and other places the Ukrainians have taken it is extremely doubtful that Ukraine could win any kind of referendum there. In summary, Ukraine has not thought it through; they can win a hundred battles, but the war will keep going on

  477. It is a shame that Herschel Walker lost.

    Partly, because now I will never figure out why he was talking about lycanthropes.

  478. @Philip Owen
    All but one of the Saratov newspaper publishing on line have avoided discussion of the Engels bomb. The only one that has mentioned the subject represents the largest United Russia faction. There is a picture showing teh damaged tail plane but that is not mentioned in the text which discussed the fuel truck as if it might have caught fire by itself.

    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled? Apparently it's a racial slur for white people. I rather like it.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @S

    How do I change my handle to Ice Monkey without being expelled?

    Shouldn’t be too difficult. Might send a brief e-mail to Ron when you do.

    Apparently it’s a racial slur for white people. I rather like it.

    There are those amongst the Black population who seem to rather enjoy calling others the ‘N-word’ and in turn enjoy being called that name themselves. It only stands to reason I suppose that White folk would have their equivelant of that sort. 🙂

  479. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    The 1990 borders in Donbas were roughly controlled by both adversaries 50/50. Do you think that it would be wise to leave the new adjusted borders to roughly this same configuration? Leaving the real possibility by both sides to ratchet up future propaganda to include "reuniting Donbas" for either party involved?

    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future. Ukrainians, as you likely know, would like to make this the war that their children no longer have to fight again down the road...

    Replies: @Beckow, @AP

    The February borders were good in that they corresponded to ethnic majorities.

    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future

    If both sides are sick of fighting and Ukraine holds northern Crimea it can be exchanged for Mariupol or some other places Russia would be holding that Ukraine wasn’t able to take back by force, as part of a comprehensive peace deal.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    It is perversely reassuring that you two are always 'on message' with respect to the SMO.

    I see this catastrophe as essentially the West fighting Cold War 2.0 against Russia using the people of Ukraine as a club. Hypothetically speaking, let's say a stable Ukrainian state results from this war, but also 50 million people are killed in the inevitable collateral damage (not counting another 10 million in Ukraine). Would it be worth it for the dream of a new Ukraine?

    What is the limit? What about 5 million or 500 million murders?

    Other than "Russia Bad, Ukraine Good" what is your calculation? The quaint idea that the current iteration of Ukraine is truly organic seems ridiculous considering the well known extensive foreign meddling since WWII. What will it take for people to let go of it?

    Replies: @AP

  480. @Mikel
    @Yahya


    Ron Unz scored 200+ on IQ tests
     
    It looks like there are claims that he scored 214, which is difficult to believe, but in any case he is extremely intelligent, being a theoretical physicist and self-made multimillionaire. However, look at what things he believes in, what authors he promotes on his website and how he chooses to inform himself about topics like the war in Ukraine. On the latter, it's not like listening to the monologues of the same few contrarian voices, whose analyses have been refuted once and again by objective facts, saves you any time. I have been following the war as closely as anyone but, quite frankly, I don't have the time to listen to a 1 hour+ long video of anyone's opinions. Apparently a very high intelligence doesn't necessarily provide good common sense.

    Replies: @Yahya

    It looks like there are claims that he scored 214, which is difficult to believe, but in any case he is extremely intelligent, being a theoretical physicist and self-made multimillionaire

    There’s no doubt Ron Unz is as brilliant as they come in IQ terms. Anyone who has seen the way he can traverse topics and absorb a mountain of facts will surely realize he is no dummy. But as you mentioned, intelligence is not the same as wisdom. The number of highly intelligent people who have made serious mistakes or committed errors of judgement is too large to count. IQ can be helpful in reasoning, but if you’re not heedful of the multitude of ways the brain can trick you, your IQ could lead you to the wrong conclusion. That’s why a moron like Trump can have a more accurate picture of reality than Obama or Merkel who are a full standard deviation above him in IQ.

    With regards to conspiracy theorists, the problem is that contrary to the dumb conspiracy hick stereotype, many of them are actually quite intelligent and knowledgeable about the topic in which they theorize. People like Ron Unz or Mike Whitney aren’t some drooling ignoramuses spouting off the latest UFO story or whatever. They have done their research and collected a mountain of supporting arguments. But as mentioned, the brain can trick people into errors of judgement through a variety of cognitive glitches; which in the case of conspiracy theorists is the ubiquitous confirmation bias, the doubt-avoidance tendency, and the commitment & consistency tendency.

    As a Middle Easterner I have a lot of experience with conspiracy theories. Usually the way I deal with them is to ask my interlocutors if they have any evidence to support their assertions. Sometimes I get something along the lines of “you have to connect the dots” or a simple restatement of their assertions as if they were hard-proven facts. Sometimes they would reference a video they had seen or an article on the web. Once I had gotten a “I don’t need to give you evidence, i’m not a political scientist”.

    But for someone like Ron Unz I think I would have difficulties refuting his conspiracies, since I don’t have the inclination to spend hours browsing the recesses of the web to gather arguments against COVID being an American-made bioweapon. I think i’d rather read War & Peace or watch The Thick Of It instead. That is the problem with refuting professional conspiracy theorists, they have the informational and motivational advantage. To them we are just sheeple going along with what we are fed, but to me it is wiser to spend time on Tolstoy than a USDA report.

    I agree that the authors Ron Unz chooses to host on his website is disappointing. But again I’m mostly here for the users not the columnists so I don’t care too much, only insofar as these authors may have created reputational problems for former Unzers like Razib Khan or Anatoly Karlin. But still we should be grateful for hosting our community for this long, and of coruse developing and maintaining this website using his own dime.

    • Agree: Mikel, keypusher
    • Replies: @A123
    @Yahya


    That’s why a complete moron like Trump can have a more accurate picture of reality than Obama or Merkel who are a full standard deviation above him in IQ.

     

    It is phrases like this that make Trump so great. The #NeverTrump fringe goes into mouth frothing range and senselessly lashes out with unsupportable charges.

    Lets look at the facts: (1)


    Biden lied about his grade in school. We equally find out that he wasn’t among the best 60 students in his department, meaning the current US president wasn’t brilliant during his school days.

    Considering the above details and other information available to us, we concluded that Joe Biden’s IQ isn’t high but not too low. Being a president of a highly-rated country like America means Biden’s IQ shouldn’t be lower than 100 which means he is a bit intelligent.
     


    Obama’s IQ. We can only predict his possible score if he eventually participates in a cognitive test. Considering his academic performance, laudable communication, and his public speaking abilities, we guess Obama’s IQ should be in the 130 — 140 category.
     

    Bill Clinton is a brilliant and highly intelligent individual with an estimated 160 IQ score. He is regarded as one of the top five most intelligent US presidents in history despite his obvious shortcomings as president.
     

    It is believed that Donald Trump’s IQ is well over 150. According to a study conducted by the University of California in 2006, Donald Trump’s estimated IQ is 156. The team of researchers considered Trump’s academic performance, occupation, academic honors, and grade in entrance examinations to arrive at their conclusion.
     
    Based on the objective facts Trump (~150) is more intelligent than Obama (~135). This is highly believable as Trump does much better than Obama when speaking off script away from teleprompters.

    So to correct your original overreach:

    That’s why a intelligent leader like Trump can has a more accurate picture of reality, better than Obama or Merkel who are at least one standard deviation below him in IQ.

    The objective & best test of Trump's intelligence is his reaction to Khamenei's attempt to start a war. Even with McConnell's NeoCons forced into the cabinet, Trump refused to be sucked in. It does not get much smarter than that.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://squanct.com/who-has-the-highest-iq-trump-biden-obama-or-clinton/

  481. china-russia-all-the-way says:

    Nov 23rd 2022 | KYIV

    Saturday night in Kyiv, and the streets are dark and snowy. After several waves of missile attacks on the electrical infrastructure of Ukraine over the past month, power is rationed and whole blocks are in blackout. In a hip former industrial area full of restaurants and bars, partygoers gather at the entrance to an underground club to be checked by bouncers. The dress code being enforced is “Dress to Impress”. It’s 6:30 in the evening. Nightclubs start early in wartime; curfew is at 11pm. Thigh-high pink boots and a silver mini dress are hidden beneath a puffy coat against the cold. Downstairs in a vaulted basement, the crowd pulses, wreathed in smoke and lit with blue and magenta strobe lighting.

    https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/11/23/in-ukraine-living-as-normal-is-an-act-of-defiance

    What is the conscription situation in Ukraine? It appears from the picture lots of 20-something men are not serving in the military.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    It appears from the picture lots of 20-something men are not serving in the military.
     
    Maybe they have money to buy themselves out. A bribe used to go a long way in Ukraine before February, likely goes even farther now. Although the prices went way up, some people can afford them.

    Besides, Poles now supply a big chunk of cannon fodder.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way

    , @AP
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    The military has enough people for now (500,000+); more volunteers than it can train and arm at the moment. Not every adult male has to be in the military at this time. There need to be people who work at jobs, also. It’s nice that the ones who are not in uniform are able to have some fun. There were dancehalls during World War II, you know.

  482. The hell with any commodity extractor embargoes, North America goes back to the 50’s, lol

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @sudden death


    The hell with any commodity extractor embargoes, North America goes back to the 50’s, lol

     

    You are jealous that your non-entity country isn't as wealthy or important as Saudi Arabia.

    Baltic states suffer from an inferiority complex of being sandwiched between two great civilizations and contributing nothing to it.

    That's what this bleating about Russia is all about.

    Your men are gay and your women are slaves.

    Worship the Khalsa and don't eat beef.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    Replies: @sudden death

  483. @china-russia-all-the-way
    https://i.imgur.com/X7ge70g.jpg

    Nov 23rd 2022 | KYIV

    Saturday night in Kyiv, and the streets are dark and snowy. After several waves of missile attacks on the electrical infrastructure of Ukraine over the past month, power is rationed and whole blocks are in blackout. In a hip former industrial area full of restaurants and bars, partygoers gather at the entrance to an underground club to be checked by bouncers. The dress code being enforced is “Dress to Impress”. It’s 6:30 in the evening. Nightclubs start early in wartime; curfew is at 11pm. Thigh-high pink boots and a silver mini dress are hidden beneath a puffy coat against the cold. Downstairs in a vaulted basement, the crowd pulses, wreathed in smoke and lit with blue and magenta strobe lighting.

    https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/11/23/in-ukraine-living-as-normal-is-an-act-of-defiance

     

    What is the conscription situation in Ukraine? It appears from the picture lots of 20-something men are not serving in the military.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

    It appears from the picture lots of 20-something men are not serving in the military.

    Maybe they have money to buy themselves out. A bribe used to go a long way in Ukraine before February, likely goes even farther now. Although the prices went way up, some people can afford them.

    Besides, Poles now supply a big chunk of cannon fodder.

    • Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AnonfromTN


    Maybe they have money to buy themselves out. A bribe used to go a long way in Ukraine before February, likely goes even farther now.
     
    If this is true, it would be terrible for morale and I wonder why other men even want to show up to the frontlines.

    Besides, Poles now supply a big chunk of cannon fodder.
     
    Are there good sources on the number of Poles in the field and killed in action?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  484. 🐾Aleksandra Opalic ♈♎🌛♑⚜
    @aleksandraopal2
    🇺🇦How the Russian identity is being erased from the little children in Ukraine. (Video from before the war)

    Everyone who supports Ukraine should watch this video and ask themselves how they would like this to be happening to their kids with no way for parents to object.
    ⬇️

    [MORE]

  485. @sudden death
    The hell with any commodity extractor embargoes, North America goes back to the 50's, lol

    https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16274.jpeg

    Replies: @Yahya

    The hell with any commodity extractor embargoes, North America goes back to the 50’s, lol

    You are jealous that your non-entity country isn’t as wealthy or important as Saudi Arabia.

    Baltic states suffer from an inferiority complex of being sandwiched between two great civilizations and contributing nothing to it.

    That’s what this bleating about Russia is all about.

    Your men are gay and your women are slaves.

    Worship the Khalsa and don’t eat beef.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Yahya

    As long as humans can't eat and drink oil, there's really not much of a reason for Baltics to be jealous of Saudi Arabia from all the posible places, lol

  486. china-russia-all-the-way says:
    @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    It appears from the picture lots of 20-something men are not serving in the military.
     
    Maybe they have money to buy themselves out. A bribe used to go a long way in Ukraine before February, likely goes even farther now. Although the prices went way up, some people can afford them.

    Besides, Poles now supply a big chunk of cannon fodder.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way

    Maybe they have money to buy themselves out. A bribe used to go a long way in Ukraine before February, likely goes even farther now.

    If this is true, it would be terrible for morale and I wonder why other men even want to show up to the frontlines.

    Besides, Poles now supply a big chunk of cannon fodder.

    Are there good sources on the number of Poles in the field and killed in action?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    Are there good sources on the number of Poles in the field and killed in action?
     
    Politically correct English language sources pretend that there are no Poles at the front. Some info is available on obscure sites, like these:
    https://www.theinteldrop.org/2022/11/13/polands-nato-nuclear-armed-military-has-entered-ukraine-war/#:~:text=Poland%E2%80%99s%20NATO%20Nuclear%20Armed%20Military%20has%20Entered%20Ukraine,for%20Russia%E2%80%99s%20legal%20use%20of%20tactical%20nuclear%20weapons

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/11/ukraine-war-a-contentious-graveyard-in-poland.html

    Russian Ministry of Defense claims that more than 1,200 Poles were already killed in action. Some Polish sources confirm that, or even cite higher numbers. However, this info is in Russian and Polish, respectively. Some videos made presumably by Ukrainian soldiers in Donbass blame Poles for their casualties: they say that Polish howitzers Crab with Polish crews move to their positions, fire, and retreat, whereupon they get Russian return fire.

    In the past, the estimates of Russian MoD were on the conservative side, not exaggerating enemy casualties. However, this has no predictive value.

  487. @Yahya
    @Mikel


    It looks like there are claims that he scored 214, which is difficult to believe, but in any case he is extremely intelligent, being a theoretical physicist and self-made multimillionaire
     
    There's no doubt Ron Unz is as brilliant as they come in IQ terms. Anyone who has seen the way he can traverse topics and absorb a mountain of facts will surely realize he is no dummy. But as you mentioned, intelligence is not the same as wisdom. The number of highly intelligent people who have made serious mistakes or committed errors of judgement is too large to count. IQ can be helpful in reasoning, but if you're not heedful of the multitude of ways the brain can trick you, your IQ could lead you to the wrong conclusion. That's why a moron like Trump can have a more accurate picture of reality than Obama or Merkel who are a full standard deviation above him in IQ.

    With regards to conspiracy theorists, the problem is that contrary to the dumb conspiracy hick stereotype, many of them are actually quite intelligent and knowledgeable about the topic in which they theorize. People like Ron Unz or Mike Whitney aren't some drooling ignoramuses spouting off the latest UFO story or whatever. They have done their research and collected a mountain of supporting arguments. But as mentioned, the brain can trick people into errors of judgement through a variety of cognitive glitches; which in the case of conspiracy theorists is the ubiquitous confirmation bias, the doubt-avoidance tendency, and the commitment & consistency tendency.

    As a Middle Easterner I have a lot of experience with conspiracy theories. Usually the way I deal with them is to ask my interlocutors if they have any evidence to support their assertions. Sometimes I get something along the lines of "you have to connect the dots" or a simple restatement of their assertions as if they were hard-proven facts. Sometimes they would reference a video they had seen or an article on the web. Once I had gotten a "I don't need to give you evidence, i'm not a political scientist".

    But for someone like Ron Unz I think I would have difficulties refuting his conspiracies, since I don't have the inclination to spend hours browsing the recesses of the web to gather arguments against COVID being an American-made bioweapon. I think i'd rather read War & Peace or watch The Thick Of It instead. That is the problem with refuting professional conspiracy theorists, they have the informational and motivational advantage. To them we are just sheeple going along with what we are fed, but to me it is wiser to spend time on Tolstoy than a USDA report.

    I agree that the authors Ron Unz chooses to host on his website is disappointing. But again I'm mostly here for the users not the columnists so I don't care too much, only insofar as these authors may have created reputational problems for former Unzers like Razib Khan or Anatoly Karlin. But still we should be grateful for hosting our community for this long, and of coruse developing and maintaining this website using his own dime.

    Replies: @A123

    That’s why a complete moron like Trump can have a more accurate picture of reality than Obama or Merkel who are a full standard deviation above him in IQ.

    It is phrases like this that make Trump so great. The #NeverTrump fringe goes into mouth frothing range and senselessly lashes out with unsupportable charges.

    Lets look at the facts: (1)

    Biden lied about his grade in school. We equally find out that he wasn’t among the best 60 students in his department, meaning the current US president wasn’t brilliant during his school days.

    Considering the above details and other information available to us, we concluded that Joe Biden’s IQ isn’t high but not too low. Being a president of a highly-rated country like America means Biden’s IQ shouldn’t be lower than 100 which means he is a bit intelligent.

    Obama’s IQ. We can only predict his possible score if he eventually participates in a cognitive test. Considering his academic performance, laudable communication, and his public speaking abilities, we guess Obama’s IQ should be in the 130 — 140 category.

    Bill Clinton is a brilliant and highly intelligent individual with an estimated 160 IQ score. He is regarded as one of the top five most intelligent US presidents in history despite his obvious shortcomings as president.

    It is believed that Donald Trump’s IQ is well over 150. According to a study conducted by the University of California in 2006, Donald Trump’s estimated IQ is 156. The team of researchers considered Trump’s academic performance, occupation, academic honors, and grade in entrance examinations to arrive at their conclusion.

    Based on the objective facts Trump (~150) is more intelligent than Obama (~135). This is highly believable as Trump does much better than Obama when speaking off script away from teleprompters.

    So to correct your original overreach:

    That’s why a intelligent leader like Trump can has a more accurate picture of reality, better than Obama or Merkel who are at least one standard deviation below him in IQ.

    The objective & best test of Trump’s intelligence is his reaction to Khamenei’s attempt to start a war. Even with McConnell’s NeoCons forced into the cabinet, Trump refused to be sucked in. It does not get much smarter than that.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://squanct.com/who-has-the-highest-iq-trump-biden-obama-or-clinton/

  488. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    The February borders were good in that they corresponded to ethnic majorities.


    Similarly, taking parts of northern Crimea would leave an oblast that was once a united whole, dividing it into two sections, ripe for further confrontation in the future
     
    If both sides are sick of fighting and Ukraine holds northern Crimea it can be exchanged for Mariupol or some other places Russia would be holding that Ukraine wasn’t able to take back by force, as part of a comprehensive peace deal.

    Replies: @QCIC

    It is perversely reassuring that you two are always ‘on message’ with respect to the SMO.

    I see this catastrophe as essentially the West fighting Cold War 2.0 against Russia using the people of Ukraine as a club. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say a stable Ukrainian state results from this war, but also 50 million people are killed in the inevitable collateral damage (not counting another 10 million in Ukraine). Would it be worth it for the dream of a new Ukraine?

    What is the limit? What about 5 million or 500 million murders?

    Other than “Russia Bad, Ukraine Good” what is your calculation? The quaint idea that the current iteration of Ukraine is truly organic seems ridiculous considering the well known extensive foreign meddling since WWII. What will it take for people to let go of it?

    • Replies: @AP
    @QCIC

    It’s very simple: Ukrainians don’t want to be ruled by Russia and will fight and kill in order to prevent that from happening. Americans will happily help the Ukrainians in their efforts. Russians stupidly invaded Ukraine because apparently their leadership bought its own BS about Ukrainians not caring about their “fake” country or something. So Russians are getting killed in large numbers by Ukrainians who are fighting to keep the Russians out. Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.

    Americans meanwhile get to see Russia’s military decimated for a fraction of the US defence budget and get to test all their weapons - at no cost to American lives.

    Replies: @QCIC, @china-russia-all-the-way

  489. @Yahya
    @sudden death


    The hell with any commodity extractor embargoes, North America goes back to the 50’s, lol

     

    You are jealous that your non-entity country isn't as wealthy or important as Saudi Arabia.

    Baltic states suffer from an inferiority complex of being sandwiched between two great civilizations and contributing nothing to it.

    That's what this bleating about Russia is all about.

    Your men are gay and your women are slaves.

    Worship the Khalsa and don't eat beef.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

    Replies: @sudden death

    As long as humans can’t eat and drink oil, there’s really not much of a reason for Baltics to be jealous of Saudi Arabia from all the posible places, lol

  490. Allegedly a report saying the infamous Visegrad24 Twitter account is a Polish government operation. TBH I don’t think it would require government financing as it would be easy for one person to operate with just a couple of hours of spare time per day.

    Anyway, given the Taibi Twitter document news drop this week it is now confirmed that pretty much all Western media narratives are directly curated primarily by US intelligence agencies, then passed on by our ‘free press’ (lol), so it won’t be surprising to find out that US allies/satrapies are all engaged in similar activities on a smaller scale.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Matra

    Haven't paid close enough attention to Visegrad24 to come up with my own psych profile of them, but somehow I got the idea that they were sort of woke. I was interested in the rumor that they were a non-Euro living in Eastern Europe, but began to wonder if that was true, when they started posting recently about the World Cup-related riots of ethnic Moroccans in Europe.

    BTW, I strongly suspect that the Korean government runs a lot of thinly-disguised social media accounts promoting Korean cultural exports.

  491. @Mikel
    @A123


    Result altering evidence has been objectively proven in multiple states. Here is the video (again)
     
    Oh look, someone wrote an optical recognition program that apparently detected lots of double votes in Fulton so Trump won the 2020 elections LOL

    Contrary to what others have expressed, I do think that you are a real person but that you really believe what you type is a very different matter. Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

    Replies: @A123, @keypusher

    Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

    I regret to inform you that is an Einstein among Trump supporters. As their numbers dwindle his intellectual pre-eminence over them will only increase.

    • Agree: Barbarossa, Mr. Hack
    • Thanks: Mikel
    • Replies: @Mikel
    @keypusher


    @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters.
     
    I know what you mean. But then again, look at comment 523. Let's not be unfair to all Trump supporters.

    You are right that Trump's support is dwindling though. Today I see about four anti-Trump opinion pieces on Breitbart, his former stronghold.

    Replies: @A123

  492. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AnonfromTN


    Maybe they have money to buy themselves out. A bribe used to go a long way in Ukraine before February, likely goes even farther now.
     
    If this is true, it would be terrible for morale and I wonder why other men even want to show up to the frontlines.

    Besides, Poles now supply a big chunk of cannon fodder.
     
    Are there good sources on the number of Poles in the field and killed in action?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Are there good sources on the number of Poles in the field and killed in action?

    Politically correct English language sources pretend that there are no Poles at the front. Some info is available on obscure sites, like these:
    https://www.theinteldrop.org/2022/11/13/polands-nato-nuclear-armed-military-has-entered-ukraine-war/#:~:text=Poland%E2%80%99s%20NATO%20Nuclear%20Armed%20Military%20has%20Entered%20Ukraine,for%20Russia%E2%80%99s%20legal%20use%20of%20tactical%20nuclear%20weapons

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/11/ukraine-war-a-contentious-graveyard-in-poland.html

    Russian Ministry of Defense claims that more than 1,200 Poles were already killed in action. Some Polish sources confirm that, or even cite higher numbers. However, this info is in Russian and Polish, respectively. Some videos made presumably by Ukrainian soldiers in Donbass blame Poles for their casualties: they say that Polish howitzers Crab with Polish crews move to their positions, fire, and retreat, whereupon they get Russian return fire.

    In the past, the estimates of Russian MoD were on the conservative side, not exaggerating enemy casualties. However, this has no predictive value.

  493. @AnonfromTN
    @AP

    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes. Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment, or do you not? If not, discussing anything with you is pointless.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted. If they were not, Ukraine is as lawless as a jungle.


    per UN.
     
    The credibility of an organization that pretends not to know who is shelling Zaporozhye nuclear power plant is exactly zero. Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    Replies: @keypusher, @AP

    Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    Have thousands of civilians, Ukrainian and Russian, been killed since February 24? Yes or no?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @keypusher

    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443):
    https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/11/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-14-november-2022
    Not that I would necessarily trust OHCHR, but I would certainly not trust "official" claims of the UN, which discredited itself beyond redemption.

    Replies: @keypusher

  494. @Matra
    Allegedly a report saying the infamous Visegrad24 Twitter account is a Polish government operation. TBH I don't think it would require government financing as it would be easy for one person to operate with just a couple of hours of spare time per day.

    Anyway, given the Taibi Twitter document news drop this week it is now confirmed that pretty much all Western media narratives are directly curated primarily by US intelligence agencies, then passed on by our 'free press' (lol), so it won't be surprising to find out that US allies/satrapies are all engaged in similar activities on a smaller scale.

    Replies: @songbird

    Haven’t paid close enough attention to Visegrad24 to come up with my own psych profile of them, but somehow I got the idea that they were sort of woke. I was interested in the rumor that they were a non-Euro living in Eastern Europe, but began to wonder if that was true, when they started posting recently about the World Cup-related riots of ethnic Moroccans in Europe.

    BTW, I strongly suspect that the Korean government runs a lot of thinly-disguised social media accounts promoting Korean cultural exports.

  495. @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN

    Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    Have thousands of civilians, Ukrainian and Russian, been killed since February 24? Yes or no?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443):
    https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/11/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-14-november-2022
    Not that I would necessarily trust OHCHR, but I would certainly not trust “official” claims of the UN, which discredited itself beyond redemption.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN


    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443)
     
    Thanks. So @AP was correct. Very few civilians were dying before the invasion. Now thousands are dying.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Another Polish Perspective

  496. @china-russia-all-the-way
    https://i.imgur.com/X7ge70g.jpg

    Nov 23rd 2022 | KYIV

    Saturday night in Kyiv, and the streets are dark and snowy. After several waves of missile attacks on the electrical infrastructure of Ukraine over the past month, power is rationed and whole blocks are in blackout. In a hip former industrial area full of restaurants and bars, partygoers gather at the entrance to an underground club to be checked by bouncers. The dress code being enforced is “Dress to Impress”. It’s 6:30 in the evening. Nightclubs start early in wartime; curfew is at 11pm. Thigh-high pink boots and a silver mini dress are hidden beneath a puffy coat against the cold. Downstairs in a vaulted basement, the crowd pulses, wreathed in smoke and lit with blue and magenta strobe lighting.

    https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/11/23/in-ukraine-living-as-normal-is-an-act-of-defiance

     

    What is the conscription situation in Ukraine? It appears from the picture lots of 20-something men are not serving in the military.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

    The military has enough people for now (500,000+); more volunteers than it can train and arm at the moment. Not every adult male has to be in the military at this time. There need to be people who work at jobs, also. It’s nice that the ones who are not in uniform are able to have some fun. There were dancehalls during World War II, you know.

  497. @QCIC
    @AP

    It is perversely reassuring that you two are always 'on message' with respect to the SMO.

    I see this catastrophe as essentially the West fighting Cold War 2.0 against Russia using the people of Ukraine as a club. Hypothetically speaking, let's say a stable Ukrainian state results from this war, but also 50 million people are killed in the inevitable collateral damage (not counting another 10 million in Ukraine). Would it be worth it for the dream of a new Ukraine?

    What is the limit? What about 5 million or 500 million murders?

    Other than "Russia Bad, Ukraine Good" what is your calculation? The quaint idea that the current iteration of Ukraine is truly organic seems ridiculous considering the well known extensive foreign meddling since WWII. What will it take for people to let go of it?

    Replies: @AP

    It’s very simple: Ukrainians don’t want to be ruled by Russia and will fight and kill in order to prevent that from happening. Americans will happily help the Ukrainians in their efforts. Russians stupidly invaded Ukraine because apparently their leadership bought its own BS about Ukrainians not caring about their “fake” country or something. So Russians are getting killed in large numbers by Ukrainians who are fighting to keep the Russians out. Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.

    Americans meanwhile get to see Russia’s military decimated for a fraction of the US defence budget and get to test all their weapons – at no cost to American lives.

    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    I claim Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent future attacks on the Motherland. The rest of the background is important but not essential. The West would try to subvert Russian regions which do not even want to be separate, so Ukrainian nationalism simply makes it more convenient. In this part of the world there is always some past history that can be cynically employed to justify the next revolution. This is all about Empire. Most Ukrainians are pawns.

    I think the vocal optimism shown by you and Hack is part of a very destructive pattern and does not support your dreams for Ukraine. It supports the Western psyop to keep Ukrainians dying. I think you should accept the idea that any power which remains on in Ukraine is there because the Russian military left it on, not because the Western-supplied Ukrainians kept them at bay. At some point the Russians may feel obligated to treat Ukrainians like a real enemy and our worst fears may come to pass.

    Replies: @AP

    , @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP


    Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.
     
    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1598154181894103042

    WASHINGTON — Russia’s war in Ukraine has left more than 100,000 of Moscow’s troops dead or wounded, and Ukraine has probably suffered a similar number of casualties, the United States’ most senior general said this week.

    “You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,” Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in remarks at the Economic Club of New York on Wednesday. “Same thing probably on the Ukrainian side.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-casualties-deaths.html


     

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

  498. @Sean
    @keypusher

    The original concept of the battle of Verdun was a battle of attrition but the fact is Russia is too big for Ukraine and Russia could successfully wage attrition warfare against Ukraine and win as long as the there are less than three Russians killed for every Ukrainian.


    The only hope of Ukraine is Russia quitting because the going has got too tough, but them still being there fighting and progressively intensifying and mobilising would seem to show that for the Russians seeing retreat is power-politically unfeasible. Russia's motivation being originally opportunist is now dubious. The Kremlin did underestimate how difficult it was going to be, but I think it is now clear that they have no intention of withdrawing without victory no matter what challenges they continue to encounter.

    Replies: @keypusher

    The original concept of the battle of Verdun was a battle of attrition but the fact is Russia is too big for Ukraine and Russia could successfully wage attrition warfare against Ukraine and win as long as the there are less than three Russians killed for every Ukrainian.

    The reason for doubting this is that the armies and casualties on both sides are rather small. Total Ukrainian military casualties — not killed, casualties — are supposed to be 100,000 or so. At that rate it will take a long time to run out of Ukrainians, unless freezing them works.

    I once saw a graph of Soviet (which included Ukrainian, of course) casualties during World War II. In the summer of 1941 it was something like 15,000 a day. It dropped after that, but remained in the thousands for the entire war.

    Russia and Ukraine are no doubt decrepit and enfeebled societies compared to the USSR in 1941 (the same could be said of just about any European/white society), but even apart from that, the deadliness of modern munitions probably puts a fairly low limit on the density of troops that can be usefully deployed.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @keypusher

    Casualties are much higher, good reason NATO 'mercenaries' are having to be brought in.

    Replies: @Sean

  499. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Ukrainians are not united, that's why there is this civil war - with outsiders supporting their side: Russians support the Russian-like Ukies and the West (Poland, emigres, Nato...) their more-Ukie Ukies.

    Your musings about "further confrontation in the future" are besides the point: the Ukie side is weaker and can only fight if they keep on getting unconditional unlimited Western help and if Russia refrains from using its regional dominance. Both conditions are likely to change to Kiev's disadvantage. (If they don't there will be a stalemate, not a Kiev win.)

    Russia is waiting to be fully ready, or to get the West more economically (and emotionally) exhausted. Or for the World Cup to be over, maybe Christmas. In any case, Russia's dominance has not changed - they can unleash it any day. It would be very ugly, but with the endless Western demonization, what difference would it make?

    If you claim that your enemy is the devil ('Hitler'?), what do they lose by acting like one? That's what Kiev-West have not thought through - or maybe they want the unlimited onslaught, it would end it, it would get them out of the un-winnable situation.

    Replies: @Sean

    What tends to be assumed in much jingoistic commentary that after Ukraine (hypothetically) gets its lost territories back Russia will just throw up its hands and quit, but that is very unlikely. Crimea always was basically Russian and given all the Russian speakers who have been moved there from Kherson and other places the Ukrainians have taken it is extremely doubtful that Ukraine could win any kind of referendum there. In summary, Ukraine has not thought it through; they can win a hundred battles, but the war will keep going on

  500. @Mr. Hack
    Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side in Bakhmut?

    https://youtu.be/05_FkfpFLWU

    Replies: @LatW

    Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side in Bakhmut?

    [MORE]

    That’s Caesar, the commander of the Legion of Freedom of Russia (apparently he has some aristocratic roots from Russia and Georgia, at least that’s what he claims). They have been fighting at least since the summer. They’re fighting well, apparently. Btw, Caesar doesn’t support the dismantling of Russia but only the removal of the tyranny. Hopefully after the war they don’t lose their status (as is so common in these kinds of cases).

    There is another, smaller, exclusively right wing group that is fighting near Zaporizhzhia.

    It looks like these guys are in the most difficult spots.

    “Mama says I’m special”. You bet.

  501. @AnonfromTN
    @keypusher

    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443):
    https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/11/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-14-november-2022
    Not that I would necessarily trust OHCHR, but I would certainly not trust "official" claims of the UN, which discredited itself beyond redemption.

    Replies: @keypusher

    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443)

    Thanks. So was correct. Very few civilians were dying before the invasion. Now thousands are dying.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @keypusher


    So @AP was correct.
     
    If you believe OHCHR, AP was correct. Any valid reason to believe them? Did they ever say anything politically incorrect? Even HRW did.
    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @keypusher

    For a war, 6,557 killed civilians is still a pretty low number. It is comparable to the yearly number of deaths in car accidents in Ukraine ( ~ 7000).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

  502. @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    there is a big police bust in Germany
     
    If memory serves, there was a big police bust in Germany after the Reichstag fire in 1933.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Yeah in all seriousness the report said it translates to “Friends of the Reich” and does not believe the current German state is valid. But I know not to just go by everything in western media. Or it could be the reverse and they could have 200k followed instead of 20k…

  503. @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    because of the atom bombs Japan is still in a state of shock
     
    Here is an undeniable fact, the mention of which makes hypocrites cringe and start babbling incoherent BS. Nukes were used as a weapon of war for the first (and so far the last) time more than 77 years ago. On August 6, 1945, Hiroshima was nuked. Three days later, on August 9, 1945, Nagasaki was nuked.

    Only one country in the world used nukes against humans. It was not Pakistan, India, NK, or even Israel. By the most conservative estimates, more than 100,000 civilians were killed by these bombings. Nobody was ever punished for these crimes.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Yeah but Japanese lives don’t count. Expect now when they want to use Japan for their own purposes. But forget just the nukes. Tokyo was firebombed to the ground and even more civilians died. It’s only war crimes depending on who gets killed. Iraqi children didn’t count…. But Putin is now a war criminal…. Go figure

  504. @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN


    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443)
     
    Thanks. So @AP was correct. Very few civilians were dying before the invasion. Now thousands are dying.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Another Polish Perspective

    So was correct.

    If you believe OHCHR, AP was correct. Any valid reason to believe them? Did they ever say anything politically incorrect? Even HRW did.

  505. @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN


    OHCHR on Nov 14 reported 6,557 killed civilians, including those killed by Ukrainian forces on the territories held by the RF and Donbass freedom fighters (443)
     
    Thanks. So @AP was correct. Very few civilians were dying before the invasion. Now thousands are dying.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Another Polish Perspective

    For a war, 6,557 killed civilians is still a pretty low number. It is comparable to the yearly number of deaths in car accidents in Ukraine ( ~ 7000).

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective

    7,000 car accident fatalities is an appallingly high number for Ukraine. Russian population is 4-7 times greater (depends on the estimates: Russia regularly conducts censuses, whereas the last census in Ukraine was more than 20 years ago, in 2001) and it experienced only ~16,000 car accident fatalities in 2020:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/437986/number-of-road-deaths-in-russia/

    This must be due to dismal state of the roads in Ukraine. I remember being driven from Donetsk airport (now RIP) to Lugansk every year from 2007 to 2013. The road was full of potholes, many large and deep enough to wreck the car or take a wheel off. The driver maneuvered like crazy to avoid those, often via the oncoming traffic lane, which created a lot of dangerous situations.

    Replies: @sudden death, @AP

    , @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    The report IIRC noted that the actual number was higher and this this was the confirmed number.

  506. @AP
    @QCIC

    It’s very simple: Ukrainians don’t want to be ruled by Russia and will fight and kill in order to prevent that from happening. Americans will happily help the Ukrainians in their efforts. Russians stupidly invaded Ukraine because apparently their leadership bought its own BS about Ukrainians not caring about their “fake” country or something. So Russians are getting killed in large numbers by Ukrainians who are fighting to keep the Russians out. Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.

    Americans meanwhile get to see Russia’s military decimated for a fraction of the US defence budget and get to test all their weapons - at no cost to American lives.

    Replies: @QCIC, @china-russia-all-the-way

    I claim Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent future attacks on the Motherland. The rest of the background is important but not essential. The West would try to subvert Russian regions which do not even want to be separate, so Ukrainian nationalism simply makes it more convenient. In this part of the world there is always some past history that can be cynically employed to justify the next revolution. This is all about Empire. Most Ukrainians are pawns.

    I think the vocal optimism shown by you and Hack is part of a very destructive pattern and does not support your dreams for Ukraine. It supports the Western psyop to keep Ukrainians dying. I think you should accept the idea that any power which remains on in Ukraine is there because the Russian military left it on, not because the Western-supplied Ukrainians kept them at bay. At some point the Russians may feel obligated to treat Ukrainians like a real enemy and our worst fears may come to pass.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @AP
    @QCIC


    I claim Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent future attacks on the Motherland.
     
    Sure, that's why America invaded Iraq, right? And Czechoslovakia was a knife pointed at the heart of Germany - had to go.

    Most Ukrainians are pawns.
     
    Ukrainians are no more pawns than are any other people who are defending their country from an attack.

    The pawns here are regular Russians - sent to die in an invasion of another country who doesn't want them on their lands.

    It supports the Western psyop to keep Ukrainians dying.
     
    That's a creative way of describing - not surrendering.

    We shouldn't have supported anyone in Germany's way because doing so kept those people dying. They all should have been unarmed and encouraged to surrender without firing a shot. Vietnam should have been disarmed totally, to keep them from dying when America invaded. Those deaths there were the Soviet's fault for arming them. Etc.

    Replies: @QCIC

  507. @Another Polish Perspective
    @keypusher

    For a war, 6,557 killed civilians is still a pretty low number. It is comparable to the yearly number of deaths in car accidents in Ukraine ( ~ 7000).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

    7,000 car accident fatalities is an appallingly high number for Ukraine. Russian population is 4-7 times greater (depends on the estimates: Russia regularly conducts censuses, whereas the last census in Ukraine was more than 20 years ago, in 2001) and it experienced only ~16,000 car accident fatalities in 2020:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/437986/number-of-road-deaths-in-russia/

    This must be due to dismal state of the roads in Ukraine. I remember being driven from Donetsk airport (now RIP) to Lugansk every year from 2007 to 2013. The road was full of potholes, many large and deep enough to wreck the car or take a wheel off. The driver maneuvered like crazy to avoid those, often via the oncoming traffic lane, which created a lot of dangerous situations.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Dear leader Putin claimed last week that the number of car accident deaths is 30k though, guess FSB has given him real stats instead of that official tripe, which is presented as public published stats in RF;)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    7,000 car accident fatalities is an appallingly high number for Ukraine.
     
    The number is a mistake.

    https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/ukraine-road-traffic-accidents

    According to the latest WHO data published in 2020 Road Traffic Accidents Deaths in Ukraine reached 4,487 or 0.80% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 9.34 per 100,000 of population ranks Ukraine #125 in the world.

    The 2020 number was an increase from 2017, when it was 3,432:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/438019/number-of-road-deaths-in-ukraine/

    This must be due to dismal state of the roads in Ukraine.
     
    Well, per capita it's about the same number of deaths as in Russia.

    I remember being driven from Donetsk airport (now RIP) to Lugansk every year from 2007 to 2013.
     
    I drove around Ukraine in 2017. Roads in and around Kiev were no worse than in the USA - indeed, considerably better than in many places in the USA, particularly Detroit.

    Roads were also good in Lviv (other than the cobblestones in the center, but those are there on purpose) and in a 20-30 km radius beyond the city. But then they became horrible, with massive potholes even on main roads such as the Lviv to Vynnytsia "highway" (a two lane road with huge potholes where at times traffic must crawl at 20 kph). On a side road around there, I blew out a tire and dented the underbody by driving too fast through a pothole. I don't know how to change tires, but some villagers came around and did it for me. Very kind and helpful people. Spoke a deep Galician dialect. Interestingly, one of them asked if I were a Pole. So in Kiev they ask if I am from Lviv, in Lviv they correctly identify me as someone from Canada or the USA, but in the Galician countryside someone wondered if I was a Pole.
  508. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective

    7,000 car accident fatalities is an appallingly high number for Ukraine. Russian population is 4-7 times greater (depends on the estimates: Russia regularly conducts censuses, whereas the last census in Ukraine was more than 20 years ago, in 2001) and it experienced only ~16,000 car accident fatalities in 2020:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/437986/number-of-road-deaths-in-russia/

    This must be due to dismal state of the roads in Ukraine. I remember being driven from Donetsk airport (now RIP) to Lugansk every year from 2007 to 2013. The road was full of potholes, many large and deep enough to wreck the car or take a wheel off. The driver maneuvered like crazy to avoid those, often via the oncoming traffic lane, which created a lot of dangerous situations.

    Replies: @sudden death, @AP

    Dear leader Putin claimed last week that the number of car accident deaths is 30k though, guess FSB has given him real stats instead of that official tripe, which is presented as public published stats in RF;)

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death

    Interesting, if true. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, statista is not a Russian site. They have the US thing in their address, .com. I also know that the people who used to be obsessed with KGB are now obsessed with FSB. However, FSB has nothing to do with car accident stats, the numbers come from the police.

    Replies: @keypusher

  509. @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Dear leader Putin claimed last week that the number of car accident deaths is 30k though, guess FSB has given him real stats instead of that official tripe, which is presented as public published stats in RF;)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Interesting, if true. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, statista is not a Russian site. They have the US thing in their address, .com. I also know that the people who used to be obsessed with KGB are now obsessed with FSB. However, FSB has nothing to do with car accident stats, the numbers come from the police.

    • LOL: showmethereal
    • Replies: @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN

    Wrapped in some silly editorializing, for which I apologize, but here is what Putin said. I think Yahoo is reprinting from something called Ukrainian Pravda, but the quote appears genuine, and even rather eloquent.

    https://news.yahoo.com/putin-war-deaths-30-000-155637794.html

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  510. Dennis Prager recently came out and said that belief in the Holocaust is necessary to go to Heaven. I hope the missionaries are teaching that to the Papa New Guineans, so they can achieve salvation.

  511. @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death

    Interesting, if true. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, statista is not a Russian site. They have the US thing in their address, .com. I also know that the people who used to be obsessed with KGB are now obsessed with FSB. However, FSB has nothing to do with car accident stats, the numbers come from the police.

    Replies: @keypusher

    Wrapped in some silly editorializing, for which I apologize, but here is what Putin said. I think Yahoo is reprinting from something called Ukrainian Pravda, but the quote appears genuine, and even rather eloquent.

    https://news.yahoo.com/putin-war-deaths-30-000-155637794.html

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @keypusher


    Ukrainian Pravda
     
    Thanks! That explains it. In translation the name of this paper means “Ukrainian Truth”. Not surprisingly, it was not caught telling the truth for years.

    Replies: @sudden death

  512. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    And Qatar creates more center-left media for the Western viewers.
     
    One of the oddities of the modern world is seeing a quasi-Islamist Gulf State, which no doubt would be placed on the far, reactionary right of the Western political spectrum, disseminate left-wing/woke talking points through their English-language media channels. Their Arabic-language channels meanwhile are known to push Islamist narratives, so the Qataris are sort of playing both sides of the spectrum, depending on the audience.

    I have to say their strategy is pretty smart. I think they know the main movers and shakers in Washington and London lean to the left so they are targeting them specifically. Seems like a more rational strategy than Russia Today which seems to cater to conspiracy theorists and anti-government types, who are of course powerless and negligible. I've only watched a few of Al Jazeera's documentaries but invariably they are well-made and aesthetically pleasing, though definitely pushing certain narratives, which of course every other media channel does as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o&ab_channel=AlJazeeraEnglish

    Qatar has a lot of money, but one can't but help be impressed that such a tiny "nation" has outdone several large countries on the media front, even if you disagree with their politics.


    About Saudi Arabia, they could be seen as the most idealized utopia for some Western “traditionalists”.
     
    I'm not aware of any Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional even for them. They probably want a more patriarchal structure in society but not necessarily for women to be covered from head-to-toe, for dating to be impermissible etc.

    Women cannot drive cars.
     
    Not true. That changed in 2018.

    Wealthy men have multiple wives.
     
    Exaggeration.

    At the same time, the culture enjoy a bit of American redneck lifestyle,
     
    True.

    But Saudi Arabia is probably intelligent not to try to market to people in Western democracies. Because, if you are connected to one side, it creates more opposition from the other side of the partisan argument.
     
    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    What is your view about billions of dollars of building projects they funded in Beirut?
     
    I haven't visited Beirut in some years so I can't say. I'm not surprised at all they built some ultra-luxurious complexes in the middle of the city. I admire the Lebanese elite for their sophistication but sometimes I do feel it's a bit forced; and building luxury shopping centers is especially egregious given how poor and deprived the rest of the population is. In Egypt we don't have these sort of areas with only Prada and Louis Vuitton type shops; the upper class are forced to co-mingle in areas with at least the upper-middle class. Though I can already spot some changes.

    Beirut's gentrification began under PM Rafik Hariri, a Saudi-Lebanese former real estate developer who recruited his executives to government and placed them as heads of redevelopment projects in Beirut. Their aim was to resuscitate the civil-war ridden Beirut into "the finest city in the world". By "finest" they also meant the most expensive, that's why even today when Lebanon's economy is in the toilet real estate prices there are equivalent to London or Hong Kong. They redeveloped the downtown area into a more luxurious setting; from what i've seen online some of the streets there look nice; but I've also read they've become ghost towns and even Starbucks and McDonalds have closed shop for a lack of visitors, never a good sign. Problem is now rich tourists like Gulf Arabs have a lot of places to go; from London to Cannes to Hong Kong to Dubai and Paris etc, Beirut is just one of many. There used to be a time when its proximity would give it a leg up; but anecdotally not many of my relatives go there anymore; whereas my grandfather would travel to Beirut every other year in the 50s-70s.

    Definitely when you are lucky enough to inherit ancient buildings and historical monuments you don't want to tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca. The universal reaction is condemnation and disgust yet city planners insist anyway for some reason, so this is a problem. Once lost you can never retrieve the gravitas accorded to a city by its ancient monuments. In Egypt they try to build these stupid pharaonic-style buildings, and they just look hideous and pathetic.


    I think his preference is common for the people who consume alternative media, which markets for the far-right/far-left people in the Western countries.

     

    I think Yevardian's Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background and upbringing. Saudi Arabia is of course the birthplace of Islam, the traditional enemy of Armenians so that may play a role as well.

    One surprising thing I learnt was that Armenians aren't fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of "we merry brothers were victims of genocide together", but no. Armenians seem to resent Jews for hoarding all the victim points obtained through genocide.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @sudden death, @Dmitry

    their strategy is pretty smart.. than Russia Today

    It’s not surprising. You could have always predicted their media project would be more successful, as wealthy Arab governments are more usually competent (view, of national interest, not interest of local elites) than postsoviet governments. Al Jazeera is probably not just created to cut from the budget.

    You could see the example with the coronavirus response. Gulf were one of the regions which managed with well organized and effective strategy. While in the postsoviet space it was one of the more incompetent and excess deaths are showing this.

    Saudi fetishism among Western traditionalists. I think Saudi Arabia is too traditional

    This is what I was saying. Saudi didn’t invest PR in the West, and so they didn’t create this market in the West. If they wanted they could have used money to sell for Western right-wing. But there wouldn’t have been a positive long-term result because the result, you make the political opponents of people you market to, to dislike you.

    Yes Netanyahu will learn that the hard way.

    Definitely this is one of the incompetent parts of the Netanyahu diplomacy, his relation with America has connected to Republicans. He markets for Republicans, so therefore Democrat base will become opponent to Israel. It’s like reverse version from how Ukraine is supported by Democrat Party, so the Republicans and Fox News are becoming more anti-Ukraine.

    tear them down in favor of building kitschy modern glass buildings like they did in Mecca

    This re-novation project I was talking about for Beirut (which was funded with mostly Saudi Arabia) are those kitschy stone Parisian like buildings. It’s like a postsoviet dictator interpretation of Paris.

    I haven’t been there. But I think these stone buildings go souless. Pedestrianism is good. But it would have been better if they had given the downtown to the local people and allowed them to run normal Middle Eastern life there, instead of a luxury center with oversize European style building.

    I think Yevardian’s Iranophilia may also be influenced by his Armenian background

    I wasn’t thinking so much about Yevardian as individual. But in terms of predictable views here, as we are in forum hosted next to alternative media posts. So, I guess it would be normal the audience who go to the forum, would be more on pro-Iran/anti-Saudi. Because Saudi doesn’t seem to do PR in that media space.

    Armenians aren’t fond of Jews either. One would think with their commonalities and shared tragic past they would view each other with a spirit of “we merry brothers

    You think Armenians view themselves as the unsuccessful version of Jews and this creates a negative view? I remember people like Bashibuzuk, Sailer and AaronB was believing this for some reason, but there is very little except superficial connection or similarity .

    Jews are a multiracial and multinational religious group with Messianic beliefs (including overlapping cults and a portion of the ex-members), but Armenians are an ethnicity or nationality based in shared blood and culture, not religious prophecy.

    Jews are religious groups like Mormons, but Armenians are a nationality, similar to nationalities like Azerbaijanis and Georgians. This is why holocaust is viewed like a biblical apocalypse and a religious representation and cannot be seen as a normal genocide.

    Armenians are supposedly famous for ethnocentricity, but Jews doesn’t use ethnocentricity, but a religious centricity based on the shared messianic mission. Jewish interconnection (like Mormon interconnection) is based in the sharing of prophetic mission and religious cult creates a more stable motivation for the inner-group. I doubt that ethnocentricity or simple tribalism of Caucasian nationalities is really such a motivation by comparison to the messianic or prophetic religious connections across multiple ethnicities that religious groups can create. It’s because these religious groups have an end-point goal, not just a shared beginning. In Jewish culture, to “heal the world” and arrive at the end times.

    This kind of messianic structure of Israel, Americans would understand a bit as America also has an influence of messianic culture, but especially American Mormons would understand and have plagiarized a lot of the Jewish culture. (Mormons also have a lot of similar strong community life).

    It’s probably not surprising, Israel becomes more of a messianic settler country like America, which is different from neighbors. Of course, Armenian is a settled nationality, and the country will be similar to postsoviet neighbors. If Armenia was next to Benelux countries, it would be like Benelux countries. But if Israel was next to Benelux countries, it would probably still be quite strange compared to their neighbors.

    If Armenia should try to be more successful, the example they would follow are countries with the internal reform with postsoviet history like Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania.

    [MORE]

    There is religious zionist culture in Israel. They will be believing they are part of Biblical prophecy.

  513. Steady progress across the front now, John Helmer’s article explains why, many fires for NATO to put out, things sound really ugly in Bakhmut.

    http://johnhelmer.org/general-patience-and-the-pause-that-refreshes/

    Of course the neocon response is to try and escalate further, their desperation is understandable, when this is over they must be held to account.

    https://asiatimes.com/2022/12/military-sources-ukraine-missiles-used-us-guidance/

  514. @keypusher
    @Sean


    The original concept of the battle of Verdun was a battle of attrition but the fact is Russia is too big for Ukraine and Russia could successfully wage attrition warfare against Ukraine and win as long as the there are less than three Russians killed for every Ukrainian.

     

    The reason for doubting this is that the armies and casualties on both sides are rather small. Total Ukrainian military casualties -- not killed, casualties -- are supposed to be 100,000 or so. At that rate it will take a long time to run out of Ukrainians, unless freezing them works.

    I once saw a graph of Soviet (which included Ukrainian, of course) casualties during World War II. In the summer of 1941 it was something like 15,000 a day. It dropped after that, but remained in the thousands for the entire war.

    Russia and Ukraine are no doubt decrepit and enfeebled societies compared to the USSR in 1941 (the same could be said of just about any European/white society), but even apart from that, the deadliness of modern munitions probably puts a fairly low limit on the density of troops that can be usefully deployed.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    Casualties are much higher, good reason NATO ‘mercenaries’ are having to be brought in.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @LondonBob

    Azerbaijan used mercenaries to great effect to win their war with Armenia I have seen estimates Syrian merc suffered >80% casualties. There are a lot of disillusioned Westerners who have fought in Ukraine onna net and it is not the kind of combat that they thought it would be (rash Russians exposed to superior fieldcraft and weaponry). A lot of the Russian problems were due to going too fast, they are moving at a snails pace with maximum use of heavy firepower and immediate fortification of any taken ground, which slows them down further. Winter weather will suit the Russians. People like Douglas Macgregor are still openly expecting a blitz tempo, and General Milley is maybe secretly worried about that too. I think the Russian advance will be slow but sure, with their traditional profligate and potentially ruinous wastage of manpower. https://youtu.be/P4mYemj9ypU?t=857

  515. In the wikipedia article for the assassination of the Haitian president, they say that The General Security Unit of the National Palace, headed by Dimitri Herard (a suspect in the assassination) killed 3 of the assassins and arrested 20 others. What I heard Haitians say is that it was in fact one of the gangs that accomplished this, but who knows if this is just a rumor?

    Whyvert seems to be saying that he thinks it would take about $1 billion a year (from outside, presumably, and recurring cost) just to stabilize Haiti, by establishing military checkpoints. Of course, military checkpoints would probably ameliorate the situation significantly, in terms of rape and murder, but they would also do their own, more limited but not insignificant thieving.

  516. @Another Polish Perspective
    @keypusher

    For a war, 6,557 killed civilians is still a pretty low number. It is comparable to the yearly number of deaths in car accidents in Ukraine ( ~ 7000).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

    The report IIRC noted that the actual number was higher and this this was the confirmed number.

  517. IMO, Pedro Castillo didn’t understand his Pinkerian Latin American trends.

  518. @QCIC
    @AP

    I claim Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent future attacks on the Motherland. The rest of the background is important but not essential. The West would try to subvert Russian regions which do not even want to be separate, so Ukrainian nationalism simply makes it more convenient. In this part of the world there is always some past history that can be cynically employed to justify the next revolution. This is all about Empire. Most Ukrainians are pawns.

    I think the vocal optimism shown by you and Hack is part of a very destructive pattern and does not support your dreams for Ukraine. It supports the Western psyop to keep Ukrainians dying. I think you should accept the idea that any power which remains on in Ukraine is there because the Russian military left it on, not because the Western-supplied Ukrainians kept them at bay. At some point the Russians may feel obligated to treat Ukrainians like a real enemy and our worst fears may come to pass.

    Replies: @AP

    I claim Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent future attacks on the Motherland.

    Sure, that’s why America invaded Iraq, right? And Czechoslovakia was a knife pointed at the heart of Germany – had to go.

    Most Ukrainians are pawns.

    Ukrainians are no more pawns than are any other people who are defending their country from an attack.

    The pawns here are regular Russians – sent to die in an invasion of another country who doesn’t want them on their lands.

    It supports the Western psyop to keep Ukrainians dying.

    That’s a creative way of describing – not surrendering.

    We shouldn’t have supported anyone in Germany’s way because doing so kept those people dying. They all should have been unarmed and encouraged to surrender without firing a shot. Vietnam should have been disarmed totally, to keep them from dying when America invaded. Those deaths there were the Soviet’s fault for arming them. Etc.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    Those prior conflicts are not comparable to the SMO and are a distraction from a discussion of what is occurring in Ukraine. A major similarity between the conflicts is the discussion is always buried in misrepresentations and lies.

    You seem to be evoking the image of a plucky nationalistic country simply defending itself. This image completely ignores the dominant influence of vastly more powerful, nuclear-armed empires on all sides. The West invested large amounts of money and bribes to cynically use the painful history of the region to generate enough resentment and hatred to lead to this war.

    Maybe the pro-Ukie commenters have been playing a role in this process since 1990 or even earlier and are too emotionally invested to see the bigger picture which was always visible.

    Replies: @AP

  519. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective

    7,000 car accident fatalities is an appallingly high number for Ukraine. Russian population is 4-7 times greater (depends on the estimates: Russia regularly conducts censuses, whereas the last census in Ukraine was more than 20 years ago, in 2001) and it experienced only ~16,000 car accident fatalities in 2020:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/437986/number-of-road-deaths-in-russia/

    This must be due to dismal state of the roads in Ukraine. I remember being driven from Donetsk airport (now RIP) to Lugansk every year from 2007 to 2013. The road was full of potholes, many large and deep enough to wreck the car or take a wheel off. The driver maneuvered like crazy to avoid those, often via the oncoming traffic lane, which created a lot of dangerous situations.

    Replies: @sudden death, @AP

    7,000 car accident fatalities is an appallingly high number for Ukraine.

    The number is a mistake.

    https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/ukraine-road-traffic-accidents

    According to the latest WHO data published in 2020 Road Traffic Accidents Deaths in Ukraine reached 4,487 or 0.80% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 9.34 per 100,000 of population ranks Ukraine #125 in the world.

    The 2020 number was an increase from 2017, when it was 3,432:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/438019/number-of-road-deaths-in-ukraine/

    This must be due to dismal state of the roads in Ukraine.

    Well, per capita it’s about the same number of deaths as in Russia.

    I remember being driven from Donetsk airport (now RIP) to Lugansk every year from 2007 to 2013.

    I drove around Ukraine in 2017. Roads in and around Kiev were no worse than in the USA – indeed, considerably better than in many places in the USA, particularly Detroit.

    Roads were also good in Lviv (other than the cobblestones in the center, but those are there on purpose) and in a 20-30 km radius beyond the city. But then they became horrible, with massive potholes even on main roads such as the Lviv to Vynnytsia “highway” (a two lane road with huge potholes where at times traffic must crawl at 20 kph). On a side road around there, I blew out a tire and dented the underbody by driving too fast through a pothole. I don’t know how to change tires, but some villagers came around and did it for me. Very kind and helpful people. Spoke a deep Galician dialect. Interestingly, one of them asked if I were a Pole. So in Kiev they ask if I am from Lviv, in Lviv they correctly identify me as someone from Canada or the USA, but in the Galician countryside someone wondered if I was a Pole.

  520. Mikel must be celebrating with imported Sparkling Wine (not French Champagne, Instead an SJW nation import is required) as his great leader has been named Man Genderless Being of the Year

    Time Magazine Bestows “Person of Year” Award to the World’s Largest Beneficiary of Taxpayer Funding

      

    Comrade rebels, this is as fitting an attribution as one could make, given the state of international affairs.

    Time Magazine has decreed their oft coveted “Person of The Year” award to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the world’s richest man as delivered by congress via U.S. taxpayers.

    The actor-turned-president was bestowed the honor during an announcement on Wednesday by Time Magazine Editor-in-Chief Edward Felsenthal on the TODAY show.

    Trump would have headed off this mess. However, that is not where we are. Team RINO (a.k.a. Mikel and DeSantis) personally cost MAGA the Senate by endorsing O’dea in Colorado.

    Mikel… How do you feel about your Great Leader Zelensky now that DeSantis has empowered him by single handedly ending the GOP 50/50 split in the Senate? You must be proud that team RINO NeoCon is sending money to Ukraine. MAGA would have directed money to securing the U.S. border, but you loathe that idea….

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/07/time-magazine-bestows-person-of-year-award-to-the-worlds-largest-beneficiary-of-taxpayer-funding/

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Trump would have headed off this mess.
     
    No matter how much you respect Trump, he is certainly not God Almighty.

    Besides, I don’t see anything new here. First, Time magazine previously named Adolf Hitler a man of the year, so there is precedent. Second, anyone believing Western MSM is an incurable idiot. Most of them were not caught telling the truth at least since 2019. Some, like NYT, WaPo, or CNN, were “reporting” exclusively lies and blatant lies a lot longer.
    , @songbird
    @A123

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine's national symbol.

    Yes, I get that Ukraine grows a lot of sunflowers, and there is some linkage to Orthodox Lent or something. And that yellow is one of the colors of the Ukrainian flag. But it still strikes me as really weird, and I would suggest astroturfed. Maybe, something designed and promoted by the CIA.

    What is the history of it as a national symbol I wonder? What year does it go back to?

    What would be the equivalent? Americans adopting the soybean as their national symbol? (if it were more photogenic)

    I feel like this is the sort of thing that was designed to be held outside the Russian embassy. It is a kind of color revolution symbol. All the search results I get explaining it are from March. There's some mumbo jumbo about it being planted at a nuclear missile base in 1996 when Ukraine renounced control of its nuclear missiles (but really they were never under Ukraine's control, so how reliable is the story? And, yes, the CIA might have been promoting it back then). I have planted sunflowers on occasion too - it is not the same as planting trees. And my impression is that Russians themselves plant a lot and indeed consume a lot of them. (much more per capita than Americans, that people in Russia actually walk around with sunflower seeds to eat)

    And it is so creepy: there are supposedly Ukrainians telling Russians to carry the seeds in their pockets so when they die the flowers will come up. That's like what was said about freedom fighters in Ireland who carried barley in their pockets to eat it. Only people weren't taunting them about it - a ballad was composed about it.

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @A123, @Mr. Hack

    , @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    You must be proud that team RINO NeoCon is sending money to Ukraine. MAGA would have directed money to securing the U.S. border, but you loathe that idea….
     
    It looks that your MAGA infused brain can only see things in black and white - why can't both projects be funded simultaneously?

    https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tbt/OHMZNHTFF5EC5PDMUEJ6MLWMZY.jpg
    "Let's go Brandon" translated into Russian. :-)
  521. @keypusher
    @AnonfromTN

    Wrapped in some silly editorializing, for which I apologize, but here is what Putin said. I think Yahoo is reprinting from something called Ukrainian Pravda, but the quote appears genuine, and even rather eloquent.

    https://news.yahoo.com/putin-war-deaths-30-000-155637794.html

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Ukrainian Pravda

    Thanks! That explains it. In translation the name of this paper means “Ukrainian Truth”. Not surprisingly, it was not caught telling the truth for years.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Amazingly, some Ukrainian Pravda spokesperson, also known as appearing in role of RF president sometimes, told at 21:20 min exactly the same words as were printed;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceOQyjrDN4Q

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  522. @AP
    @QCIC


    I claim Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent future attacks on the Motherland.
     
    Sure, that's why America invaded Iraq, right? And Czechoslovakia was a knife pointed at the heart of Germany - had to go.

    Most Ukrainians are pawns.
     
    Ukrainians are no more pawns than are any other people who are defending their country from an attack.

    The pawns here are regular Russians - sent to die in an invasion of another country who doesn't want them on their lands.

    It supports the Western psyop to keep Ukrainians dying.
     
    That's a creative way of describing - not surrendering.

    We shouldn't have supported anyone in Germany's way because doing so kept those people dying. They all should have been unarmed and encouraged to surrender without firing a shot. Vietnam should have been disarmed totally, to keep them from dying when America invaded. Those deaths there were the Soviet's fault for arming them. Etc.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Those prior conflicts are not comparable to the SMO and are a distraction from a discussion of what is occurring in Ukraine. A major similarity between the conflicts is the discussion is always buried in misrepresentations and lies.

    You seem to be evoking the image of a plucky nationalistic country simply defending itself. This image completely ignores the dominant influence of vastly more powerful, nuclear-armed empires on all sides. The West invested large amounts of money and bribes to cynically use the painful history of the region to generate enough resentment and hatred to lead to this war.

    Maybe the pro-Ukie commenters have been playing a role in this process since 1990 or even earlier and are too emotionally invested to see the bigger picture which was always visible.

    • Replies: @AP
    @QCIC


    Those prior conflicts are not comparable to the SMO
     
    Of course they are. A bigger country invade a smaller one and makes excuses for it.

    You seem to be evoking the image of a plucky nationalistic country
     
    An image that reflects reality. Ukrainians are nationalistic, and they don't want to be ruled by Russia. Naturally, if Russia invades them they will fight back. As I predicted they would, when most people here (and apparently the US and German governments, and the Russian one) assumed that they would not and would fold in a week or two. Because I am one, visit, regularly, and am in regular contact with people from Ukraine. They will fight against the aggressor.

    the bigger picture which was always visible.
     
    Sure, there is always a bigger picture. France didn't like Britain and provided support to the rebellious colonies. According to your logic, therefore the American Revolution was a French plot against the rival British crown and the American colonists were pawns of the powerful French kingdom. The Vietnam War occurred during the Cold War between the American and Soviet Empire. So, according to your logic, those Vietnamese were merely pawns of the Soviets. You are so brilliant, seeing the "big picture."

    Replies: @QCIC

  523. @A123
    Mikel must be celebrating with imported Sparkling Wine (not French Champagne, Instead an SJW nation import is required) as his great leader has been named Man Genderless Being of the Year

    Time Magazine Bestows “Person of Year” Award to the World’s Largest Beneficiary of Taxpayer Funding

     
    https://tribuneonlineng.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Zelensky-640x430.jpg
     

    Comrade rebels, this is as fitting an attribution as one could make, given the state of international affairs.

    Time Magazine has decreed their oft coveted “Person of The Year” award to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the world’s richest man as delivered by congress via U.S. taxpayers.

    The actor-turned-president was bestowed the honor during an announcement on Wednesday by Time Magazine Editor-in-Chief Edward Felsenthal on the TODAY show.


     

    Trump would have headed off this mess. However, that is not where we are. Team RINO (a.k.a. Mikel and DeSantis) personally cost MAGA the Senate by endorsing O'dea in Colorado.

    Mikel... How do you feel about your Great Leader Zelensky now that DeSantis has empowered him by single handedly ending the GOP 50/50 split in the Senate? You must be proud that team RINO NeoCon is sending money to Ukraine. MAGA would have directed money to securing the U.S. border, but you loathe that idea....

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/07/time-magazine-bestows-person-of-year-award-to-the-worlds-largest-beneficiary-of-taxpayer-funding/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    Trump would have headed off this mess.

    No matter how much you respect Trump, he is certainly not God Almighty.

    Besides, I don’t see anything new here. First, Time magazine previously named Adolf Hitler a man of the year, so there is precedent. Second, anyone believing Western MSM is an incurable idiot. Most of them were not caught telling the truth at least since 2019. Some, like NYT, WaPo, or CNN, were “reporting” exclusively lies and blatant lies a lot longer.

  524. Looks like the Great Winter Offensive has started:
    https://funker530.com/video/thermal-drone-records-accurate-artillery-on-russian-troops/

    Can’t wait for an interview with Colonial Macgregor for his latest analysis on how Ukraine is about to collapse.

    • Troll: Mikhail
  525. @A123
    Mikel must be celebrating with imported Sparkling Wine (not French Champagne, Instead an SJW nation import is required) as his great leader has been named Man Genderless Being of the Year

    Time Magazine Bestows “Person of Year” Award to the World’s Largest Beneficiary of Taxpayer Funding

     
    https://tribuneonlineng.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Zelensky-640x430.jpg
     

    Comrade rebels, this is as fitting an attribution as one could make, given the state of international affairs.

    Time Magazine has decreed their oft coveted “Person of The Year” award to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the world’s richest man as delivered by congress via U.S. taxpayers.

    The actor-turned-president was bestowed the honor during an announcement on Wednesday by Time Magazine Editor-in-Chief Edward Felsenthal on the TODAY show.


     

    Trump would have headed off this mess. However, that is not where we are. Team RINO (a.k.a. Mikel and DeSantis) personally cost MAGA the Senate by endorsing O'dea in Colorado.

    Mikel... How do you feel about your Great Leader Zelensky now that DeSantis has empowered him by single handedly ending the GOP 50/50 split in the Senate? You must be proud that team RINO NeoCon is sending money to Ukraine. MAGA would have directed money to securing the U.S. border, but you loathe that idea....

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/07/time-magazine-bestows-person-of-year-award-to-the-worlds-largest-beneficiary-of-taxpayer-funding/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine’s national symbol.

    [MORE]

    Yes, I get that Ukraine grows a lot of sunflowers, and there is some linkage to Orthodox Lent or something. And that yellow is one of the colors of the Ukrainian flag. But it still strikes me as really weird, and I would suggest astroturfed. Maybe, something designed and promoted by the CIA.

    What is the history of it as a national symbol I wonder? What year does it go back to?

    What would be the equivalent? Americans adopting the soybean as their national symbol? (if it were more photogenic)

    I feel like this is the sort of thing that was designed to be held outside the Russian embassy. It is a kind of color revolution symbol. All the search results I get explaining it are from March. There’s some mumbo jumbo about it being planted at a nuclear missile base in 1996 when Ukraine renounced control of its nuclear missiles (but really they were never under Ukraine’s control, so how reliable is the story? And, yes, the CIA might have been promoting it back then). I have planted sunflowers on occasion too – it is not the same as planting trees. And my impression is that Russians themselves plant a lot and indeed consume a lot of them. (much more per capita than Americans, that people in Russia actually walk around with sunflower seeds to eat)

    And it is so creepy: there are supposedly Ukrainians telling Russians to carry the seeds in their pockets so when they die the flowers will come up. That’s like what was said about freedom fighters in Ireland who carried barley in their pockets to eat it. Only people weren’t taunting them about it – a ballad was composed about it.

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.
     
    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.

    My grandparents and parents planted sunflowers every spring (something I did with my own kids) and a lot of Ukrainian grandmothers have sunflower decorations. It's an old national symbol.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world's top producer of sunflower seeds:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/263928/production-of-sunflower-seed-since-2000-by-major-countries/

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Dmitry
    @songbird

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It's an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America.

    10 generations ago nobody has seen this exotic Mexican flower in the Russian empire. But in the 1880s, it begins to be used for agriculture in the Russian empire as an economically important production.

    In 20th century, it is becoming one of the most significant objects for farming, very common for growing. Since the 1990s, Ukraine is the second largest producer of sunflower oil in the world, Russia is the largest. Sunflower is also an important production in Russian agriculture. It's one of the common inheritance of the Soviet and Russian empire agriculture . By comparison, in the West, sunflower oil is a bit less common and they don't sell in supermarkets unrefined oils which are good for adding to salad.

    In Soviet Union after the war, it was promoted as a symbol for Ukraine and Kuban regions. This is probably later after the use of flower in Diego Rivero as symbol of Mexican life .*

    When the Soviet Union collapses, the government of new country Ukraine then promoting sunflower as an official symbol in the 1990s. It's not bad marketing for their sunflower oil industry also.

    It was astroturfed as a symbol by the Soviet government, but most all national symbols like this. Ukrainian nationalism is a fictional creation, but most all nations are fictional and recently created. Ukraine is artificial construction, but so are most modern nations.

    Nations and their symbols are a result of creative process, like any human things.

    *

    https://d26jxt5097u8sr.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/2020-12/PTL-19718_Sunflowers.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/08/c5/3b08c58cb6bcb1c033c021bdb7c68dbf.jpg

    Replies: @AP, @John Johnson, @songbird

    , @A123
    @songbird


    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine’s national symbol.
     
    I suspect that every nation has a national flower. Yes, America selected the rose. How original.

    Then each U.S. state has a flower [MORE]. Kansas directly shares the sunflower with Ukraine. Florida's orange blossom is also crop symbolism. I generally think of state flowers as children friendly trivia to lead into a drier historical topic. Usually some explorer found, left, or was inspired by.

    I am vaguely surprised by the number of times sunflowers appear in Ukrainian promotional material. I suspect the absence of a threatening national animal contributes to this. America is The Eagle. Russia is The Bear. Ukraine is The Nightingale. That just does not work as war imagery.

    PEACE 😇



     
    https://i.imgur.com/Whx5VT5.jpg

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Coincidentally, I was having a discussion last night with a biologist friend of mine about the relative merits of olive oil vs sunflower oil. She insisted that when frying foods, sunflower oil was safer to use than olive oil because it has a higher smoke point when in starts to impart carcinogens into the food that's being fried. I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too, it has a wonderful nutty taste to it especially the unrefined variant. I still use olive oil too, and have settled on these two oils as preferable to all others.

    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61i1qsNZH+L._SX569_.jpg
    Great stuff if you can find it. Tastes great and is a good natural source of vitamin E.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

  526. @AnonfromTN
    @keypusher


    Ukrainian Pravda
     
    Thanks! That explains it. In translation the name of this paper means “Ukrainian Truth”. Not surprisingly, it was not caught telling the truth for years.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Amazingly, some Ukrainian Pravda spokesperson, also known as appearing in role of RF president sometimes, told at 21:20 min exactly the same words as were printed;)

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death

    Wow! Ukrainian Pravda said something true for a change. That’s news indeed.

  527. @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Amazingly, some Ukrainian Pravda spokesperson, also known as appearing in role of RF president sometimes, told at 21:20 min exactly the same words as were printed;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceOQyjrDN4Q

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Wow! Ukrainian Pravda said something true for a change. That’s news indeed.

  528. @keypusher
    @Mikel


    Just like Dems have supported wacko Trumpists in several states in order to get an easier win, you may be playing the same game of discrediting yourself to make the international audience here believe that all Trump supporters are like you.

     

    I regret to inform you that @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters. As their numbers dwindle his intellectual pre-eminence over them will only increase.

    Replies: @Mikel

    is an Einstein among Trump supporters.

    I know what you mean. But then again, look at comment 523. Let’s not be unfair to all Trump supporters.

    You are right that Trump’s support is dwindling though. Today I see about four anti-Trump opinion pieces on Breitbart, his former stronghold.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel

    Everyone noticed that you ducked the question. Let me refresh your memory. Now that DeSantis is ineligible due to his 0% National Endorsement success rate:

    Who is your new RINO pick to run against Trump in 2024?

    You seem like a Mitt Romney type.... Or, do you have a different NeoCon in mind? You must have the SADZ that John McCain is unavailable. Maybe Lindsey Graham for you?
    _____


    @keypusher

    @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters.
     
    Thanks for noticing my 180+ IQ.

    I would not call myself akin to Einstein. No one knows exactly how he would score on modern test. I suspect it would be much higher. That being said, the compliment is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. I placed Keypusher on my Ignore list awhile ago. He was exclusively generating noise, not content. I wonder if I should unblock him.

    Replies: @Mikel, @keypusher

  529. @QCIC
    @AP

    Those prior conflicts are not comparable to the SMO and are a distraction from a discussion of what is occurring in Ukraine. A major similarity between the conflicts is the discussion is always buried in misrepresentations and lies.

    You seem to be evoking the image of a plucky nationalistic country simply defending itself. This image completely ignores the dominant influence of vastly more powerful, nuclear-armed empires on all sides. The West invested large amounts of money and bribes to cynically use the painful history of the region to generate enough resentment and hatred to lead to this war.

    Maybe the pro-Ukie commenters have been playing a role in this process since 1990 or even earlier and are too emotionally invested to see the bigger picture which was always visible.

    Replies: @AP

    Those prior conflicts are not comparable to the SMO

    Of course they are. A bigger country invade a smaller one and makes excuses for it.

    You seem to be evoking the image of a plucky nationalistic country

    An image that reflects reality. Ukrainians are nationalistic, and they don’t want to be ruled by Russia. Naturally, if Russia invades them they will fight back. As I predicted they would, when most people here (and apparently the US and German governments, and the Russian one) assumed that they would not and would fold in a week or two. Because I am one, visit, regularly, and am in regular contact with people from Ukraine. They will fight against the aggressor.

    the bigger picture which was always visible.

    Sure, there is always a bigger picture. France didn’t like Britain and provided support to the rebellious colonies. According to your logic, therefore the American Revolution was a French plot against the rival British crown and the American colonists were pawns of the powerful French kingdom. The Vietnam War occurred during the Cold War between the American and Soviet Empire. So, according to your logic, those Vietnamese were merely pawns of the Soviets. You are so brilliant, seeing the “big picture.”

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    I'm sure you can come up with a more convincing historical example to ponder. Just think of some stable smaller country which was incited by outside forces to cause a stupid war. When the external support was inevitably not enough to prevent the catastrophic outcome for the smaller country, everyone pretended to be surprised and disappointed: "I'm shocked...shocked I tell you" that these imperial forces did not have the best interests of Ukrainians in mind.

    You can also find other historical examples where it DID work out. These non-representative examples now fuel Ukie dreams and may sear Ukrainian nightmares in the future because the big picture post-WW2 is now really different.

    We have nuclear weapons, satellites, bioweapons and many more ways to kill 100's of millions of good people. Enthusiastically volunteering to be a pawn in order to make important changes like updating the stationary and the national anthem of a region, while putting humanity at great risk is disgraceful at best.

  530. @songbird
    @A123

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine's national symbol.

    Yes, I get that Ukraine grows a lot of sunflowers, and there is some linkage to Orthodox Lent or something. And that yellow is one of the colors of the Ukrainian flag. But it still strikes me as really weird, and I would suggest astroturfed. Maybe, something designed and promoted by the CIA.

    What is the history of it as a national symbol I wonder? What year does it go back to?

    What would be the equivalent? Americans adopting the soybean as their national symbol? (if it were more photogenic)

    I feel like this is the sort of thing that was designed to be held outside the Russian embassy. It is a kind of color revolution symbol. All the search results I get explaining it are from March. There's some mumbo jumbo about it being planted at a nuclear missile base in 1996 when Ukraine renounced control of its nuclear missiles (but really they were never under Ukraine's control, so how reliable is the story? And, yes, the CIA might have been promoting it back then). I have planted sunflowers on occasion too - it is not the same as planting trees. And my impression is that Russians themselves plant a lot and indeed consume a lot of them. (much more per capita than Americans, that people in Russia actually walk around with sunflower seeds to eat)

    And it is so creepy: there are supposedly Ukrainians telling Russians to carry the seeds in their pockets so when they die the flowers will come up. That's like what was said about freedom fighters in Ireland who carried barley in their pockets to eat it. Only people weren't taunting them about it - a ballad was composed about it.

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @A123, @Mr. Hack

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.

    My grandparents and parents planted sunflowers every spring (something I did with my own kids) and a lot of Ukrainian grandmothers have sunflower decorations. It’s an old national symbol.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/263928/production-of-sunflower-seed-since-2000-by-major-countries/

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.
     
    Now this is an interesting analogy, but Italians don't use tomatoes as a symbol. And Russians eat a lot of sunflower seeds and use the oil too.

    BTW, I misspoke when I called the sunflower Mesoamerican. Current theory (which I forgot) is that it was domesticated in the eastern woodlands of the US. (there may have been a separate event in Mexico) Though, it's arguable how domesticated it was because apparently it reverted to wild type, once they got corn from Mexico. So as I understand it, modern sunflowers were redomesticated by Europeans.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds
     
    But it is kind of weird though because Russia must be the 2nd. And a lot of the gopniks there walk around eating sunflower seeds. And what now everyone planting a sunflower in Russia is a dissident?

    The three leaf clover is found on every continent but Antarctica, IIRC, but when St. Patrick used it to explain the Trinity, the sunflower was apparently a wild plant in America. And that was like 1300 years before the sunflower arrived in Ukraine.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

  531. @songbird
    @showmethereal


    Like I said – you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.
     
    You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you.

    IIRC, Bromance pegged you as not being in China, which strikes me as an astute observation. Some additional evidence for this is that you mentioned body-building. Chengdu hosted the first World's Strongest Man competition that happened in China, in 2005. At that time, body-building wasn't really a thing in China, and they had to struggle to find any plausible Chinese contestant, and struggle to find ways to keep him from being eliminated too early. The method they chose was to create a mentor relationship with a more serious candidate, who stayed in the competition longer. Granted, it is now 17 years later, and that is a long time, but I would still say that it is a fairly strong indication that you are not in China.

    Meanwhile, your boosterism of China while not living there might be considered to suggest that you are something of a hypocrite, when it comes to thinking about race. Unless it is purely ideological, but I would guess not.

    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable
     
    Why is your thinking so manichean? Haven't you ever heard of nuance? Self-interested does not necessarily mean the maximization of harm. There are cases where it can lead to good, or the benefit of others, but we still shouldn't delude ourselves that it is altruism.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed.
     
    I wouldn't say this is an accurate characterization. The first film has strong nationalist themes, with racial undertones. Certainly not like anything Hollywood has ever made. That makes it a unique and mildly entertaining film, even if it may not be the best action movie ever made.

    The second film is trash, as it basically drops these themes, to take up virtue-signaling, but it is still quite interesting on a sociological level, even if it fails on a workmanship or entertainment level.

    So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you
     
    Wouldn't say that I am the biggest booster of Hollywood here.

    Replies: @showmethereal, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    “You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you”

    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn’t care less about your personal details… Nor do I care if you get bored with me or not. You are not a source of my entertainment. Frankly I find people like you weird. If you want personal info go find a dating forum…. From what I hear a lot of those people lie too. Your racial obsessions are actually boring to me. I’m on here to discuss geopolitics.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @showmethereal


    are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves.
     
    of course, there are a lot of posers on the net, but the thing is they need to remain internally consistent, so it is not valueless to get an assertion of identity. At worst, it is entertaining to see them LARP, like Trix did after I called her (?) musculature unbelievable for a female.

    I shall put you down as someone boosting a country they don't live in, who feels too ashamed to admit it. Vicarious nationalist. Perhaps, some sort of self-hating mutt. You need not feel ashamed of it. There are many valued commentors here who are mutts.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    , @Yahya
    @showmethereal


    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn’t care less about your personal details…
     
    I agree that songbird’s racial obsessions can be tiresome, but asking what your ethnicity identity is is a reasonable question in this forum. It’s not like asking what your marriage life is like. Nor can it be used to dox you. Almost everyone in this forum freely reveals their ethnicity: Mikel is Basque-American, Dmitry is Jewish-Russian, AP and Mr. Hack are Ukrainian-Americans, Songbird and Barbarossa are Irish-Americans, German_Reader is German-English, LatW and sudden death are Baltoids, AnonFromTN is Sovok-Tennessean, Sher Singh is a Canadian pajeet, A123 is an Israeli hasbara agent, Yevardian is an Aussie-Armenoid, silviosilver is an Aussie-Balkanoid and I’m a Saudi-Egyptian.

    Now it is your turn. What do you have to hide?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @showmethereal, @A123

  532. @AnonfromTN
    @AP

    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes. Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment, or do you not? If not, discussing anything with you is pointless.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted. If they were not, Ukraine is as lawless as a jungle.


    per UN.
     
    The credibility of an organization that pretends not to know who is shelling Zaporozhye nuclear power plant is exactly zero. Can you cite any sources that did not discredit themselves yet?

    Replies: @keypusher, @AP

    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes

    That’s because you lack objectivity. Of those 12, 10 were killed by Ukrainian forces and 2 by Donbas forces. Naturally you will claim that both of the ones killed by the Donbas side were human shields and not a single one of the people killed by Kiev forces were.

    Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment

    I do. In some cases the criminals needing to be punished are Donbas rebels when they fire out of populated areas, drawing return fire into them, in other cases Kiev soldiers should be punished if they are shooting indiscriminately. Both situations are war crimes.

    The ultimate fault, of course, is Russia. It made the civil war possible by pouring arms and volunteers into Ukraine, turning protests and a civil disturbance into a full-fledged war. Russia did to Ukraine what the West, Turkey and Saudia Arabia did to Syria. West gave Syria ISIS, Russia sent its Girkin and Pavlov “Motorola” and their fighters into Ukraine.

    But the bottom line is that 12 people were killed in 2021. Russia’s invasion, made for the excuse of stopping the 12 people killed in 2021, has already caused about 7,000 killings.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted

    Are you suggesting that not finding Buzina’s killers justifies invading Ukraine and killing 7,000 and more? There are some unsolved murders of inconvenient people in Russia also. Should Russian cities also be bombed?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    not finding Buzina’s killers
     
    That’s disingenuous. Buzina killers are well known. They bragged about his murder openly. Yet the regime never did anything to punish them. For the simple reason that the regime policy is murder or torture of everyone who does not toe the party line.

    That’s why SBU is imprisoning and torturing people, trampling even Ukrainian laws. That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered. The criminals filmed their crimes and posted them on the Internet because they were 100% sure that the criminal regime won’t punish them.

    The only possible solution is elimination of this criminal regime, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If need be, by a foreign invasion, again, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.

    Replies: @AP

  533. @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    Let everyone have this straight. If 12 people were killed in Donetsk, in my book this means that Ukraine committed 12 grievous crimes
     
    That's because you lack objectivity. Of those 12, 10 were killed by Ukrainian forces and 2 by Donbas forces. Naturally you will claim that both of the ones killed by the Donbas side were human shields and not a single one of the people killed by Kiev forces were.

    Do you consider murders of the people in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling crimes requiring punishment
     
    I do. In some cases the criminals needing to be punished are Donbas rebels when they fire out of populated areas, drawing return fire into them, in other cases Kiev soldiers should be punished if they are shooting indiscriminately. Both situations are war crimes.

    The ultimate fault, of course, is Russia. It made the civil war possible by pouring arms and volunteers into Ukraine, turning protests and a civil disturbance into a full-fledged war. Russia did to Ukraine what the West, Turkey and Saudia Arabia did to Syria. West gave Syria ISIS, Russia sent its Girkin and Pavlov "Motorola" and their fighters into Ukraine.

    But the bottom line is that 12 people were killed in 2021. Russia's invasion, made for the excuse of stopping the 12 people killed in 2021, has already caused about 7,000 killings.

    If there was a rule of law in Ukraine, the perpetrators of the crimes (these and many others, like the murder in Kiev of Oles Buzina) would be found and prosecuted
     
    Are you suggesting that not finding Buzina's killers justifies invading Ukraine and killing 7,000 and more? There are some unsolved murders of inconvenient people in Russia also. Should Russian cities also be bombed?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    not finding Buzina’s killers

    That’s disingenuous. Buzina killers are well known. They bragged about his murder openly. Yet the regime never did anything to punish them. For the simple reason that the regime policy is murder or torture of everyone who does not toe the party line.

    That’s why SBU is imprisoning and torturing people, trampling even Ukrainian laws. That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered. The criminals filmed their crimes and posted them on the Internet because they were 100% sure that the criminal regime won’t punish them.

    The only possible solution is elimination of this criminal regime, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If need be, by a foreign invasion, again, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    That’s why SBU is imprisoning and torturing people, trampling even Ukrainian laws.
     
    How many, in your world?

    That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered.
     
    This happens in war. Maybe Russia shouldn't have invaded. You don't think Russians murdered any Ukrainian POWs? Remember the Russian soldiers who filmed himselves castrating a Ukrainian POW whop was later killed on film? Or civilians?

    Didn't you say that you wanted people affiliated with the Kiev government to be hanged?

    Well, on their own channels, your Luhansk rebels took photos of "traitors" that they hanged.

    The only possible solution is elimination of this criminal regime, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.
     
    Your solution to a criminal regime that killed 12 (rather, 10) people in war in 2021 was to cause an invasion that has killed about 7,000.

    You compare the Ukrainian government that you accuse of killing how many? 100, or 200 people (Buzina, etc.) to one that killed 2 million, 30% or so of its population.

    That's like comparing Russia whose invasion of Ukraine has killed about 7,000 civilians (documented) to Germany whose invasion resulted in 27 million or so deaths.

    Whatever you do, don't pretend to be objective.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  534. @AP
    @QCIC


    Those prior conflicts are not comparable to the SMO
     
    Of course they are. A bigger country invade a smaller one and makes excuses for it.

    You seem to be evoking the image of a plucky nationalistic country
     
    An image that reflects reality. Ukrainians are nationalistic, and they don't want to be ruled by Russia. Naturally, if Russia invades them they will fight back. As I predicted they would, when most people here (and apparently the US and German governments, and the Russian one) assumed that they would not and would fold in a week or two. Because I am one, visit, regularly, and am in regular contact with people from Ukraine. They will fight against the aggressor.

    the bigger picture which was always visible.
     
    Sure, there is always a bigger picture. France didn't like Britain and provided support to the rebellious colonies. According to your logic, therefore the American Revolution was a French plot against the rival British crown and the American colonists were pawns of the powerful French kingdom. The Vietnam War occurred during the Cold War between the American and Soviet Empire. So, according to your logic, those Vietnamese were merely pawns of the Soviets. You are so brilliant, seeing the "big picture."

    Replies: @QCIC

    I’m sure you can come up with a more convincing historical example to ponder. Just think of some stable smaller country which was incited by outside forces to cause a stupid war. When the external support was inevitably not enough to prevent the catastrophic outcome for the smaller country, everyone pretended to be surprised and disappointed: “I’m shocked…shocked I tell you” that these imperial forces did not have the best interests of Ukrainians in mind.

    You can also find other historical examples where it DID work out. These non-representative examples now fuel Ukie dreams and may sear Ukrainian nightmares in the future because the big picture post-WW2 is now really different.

    We have nuclear weapons, satellites, bioweapons and many more ways to kill 100’s of millions of good people. Enthusiastically volunteering to be a pawn in order to make important changes like updating the stationary and the national anthem of a region, while putting humanity at great risk is disgraceful at best.

  535. @AP
    @songbird


    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.
     
    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.

    My grandparents and parents planted sunflowers every spring (something I did with my own kids) and a lot of Ukrainian grandmothers have sunflower decorations. It's an old national symbol.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world's top producer of sunflower seeds:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/263928/production-of-sunflower-seed-since-2000-by-major-countries/

    Replies: @songbird

    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.

    Now this is an interesting analogy, but Italians don’t use tomatoes as a symbol. And Russians eat a lot of sunflower seeds and use the oil too.

    BTW, I misspoke when I called the sunflower Mesoamerican. Current theory (which I forgot) is that it was domesticated in the eastern woodlands of the US. (there may have been a separate event in Mexico) Though, it’s arguable how domesticated it was because apparently it reverted to wild type, once they got corn from Mexico. So as I understand it, modern sunflowers were redomesticated by Europeans.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds

    But it is kind of weird though because Russia must be the 2nd. And a lot of the gopniks there walk around eating sunflower seeds. And what now everyone planting a sunflower in Russia is a dissident?

    The three leaf clover is found on every continent but Antarctica, IIRC, but when St. Patrick used it to explain the Trinity, the sunflower was apparently a wild plant in America. And that was like 1300 years before the sunflower arrived in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @AP
    @songbird


    "Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian."

    Now this is an interesting analogy, but Italians don’t use tomatoes as a symbol.
     
    Sunflowers look much nicer than tomato plants, or tomatoes. They look like the sun, which is a cool symbol.

    "Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds"

    But it is kind of weird though because Russia must be the 2nd
     
    True. But it doesn't stop Russians from celebrating vodka despite Ukrainians and Poles also enjoying it a lot.

    The three leaf clover is found on every continent but Antarctica, IIRC, but when St. Patrick used it to explain the Trinity
     
    Another nice comparison. Sunflowers are to Ukraine as clovers are to Ireland. Not quite to the extent as in Ireland, but a bit like that.
    , @Dmitry
    @songbird


    planting a sunflower in Russia is a dissident?
     
    Paranoia of counterrevolutionaries was not banning sunflowers, at least until now.

    But there is political paranoia about objects that have yellow and blue colors next to each other. So buildings with yellow and blue have been repainted.

    For example, there was a shopping center with yellow and blue colors. So, immediately they removed the colors.

    https://cdn.iportal.ru/news/2015/99/preview/c1fa0f3935967e67787f0e941fd0ea500d61efa9_700.jpg

    Or there just a scooter service with yellow and blue. The colors of the scooters were after repainted to orange.

    https://cdn.iportal.ru/news/2015/99/preview/8ec481dac1df3f88534a2823c2d530740ebfda46_1822_1215_c.jpg

    When the borders of houses are painted with yellow and blue, it needs to immediately repainted as blue.
    https://cdn.iportal.ru/news/2015/99/preview/0b0746a84d53059ed99212a115b53d6121cc22fbf_1822_1215_c.jpg

  536. @showmethereal
    @songbird

    "You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you"

    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn't care less about your personal details... Nor do I care if you get bored with me or not. You are not a source of my entertainment. Frankly I find people like you weird. If you want personal info go find a dating forum.... From what I hear a lot of those people lie too. Your racial obsessions are actually boring to me. I'm on here to discuss geopolitics.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves.

    of course, there are a lot of posers on the net, but the thing is they need to remain internally consistent, so it is not valueless to get an assertion of identity. At worst, it is entertaining to see them LARP, like Trix did after I called her (?) musculature unbelievable for a female.

    I shall put you down as someone boosting a country they don’t live in, who feels too ashamed to admit it. Vicarious nationalist. Perhaps, some sort of self-hating mutt. You need not feel ashamed of it. There are many valued commentors here who are mutts.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @songbird

    Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? It doesn’t. It s clownish. For one thing I’m not an “anonymous” poster on here and my comments are not hidden. So that reversal psychology garbage doesn’t work on me. And people live in different places for different reasons. Anyone who doesn’t know that are immature intellectually.
    I could tell you in a former Maoist soldier from Nepal who admires the former helmsman and you would probably believe it even though not one single part of that sentence is true…. But anyway - Since you are one of these race nationalists then move back to the European country your family originates from. If you already did - good and then encourage all your kin to do the same. All whites should be in their European country of genetic origins or you are a hypocrite. See how that works???

    As to mutts I bet your genetics aren’t as pure as you think and that’s why you are obsessed with what breed people are.

  537. Excellent 12/7 Tucker Carlson opening on the shyster Zelensky, followed by Glenn Greenwald –

  538. @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    not finding Buzina’s killers
     
    That’s disingenuous. Buzina killers are well known. They bragged about his murder openly. Yet the regime never did anything to punish them. For the simple reason that the regime policy is murder or torture of everyone who does not toe the party line.

    That’s why SBU is imprisoning and torturing people, trampling even Ukrainian laws. That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered. The criminals filmed their crimes and posted them on the Internet because they were 100% sure that the criminal regime won’t punish them.

    The only possible solution is elimination of this criminal regime, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. If need be, by a foreign invasion, again, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.

    Replies: @AP

    That’s why SBU is imprisoning and torturing people, trampling even Ukrainian laws.

    How many, in your world?

    That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered.

    This happens in war. Maybe Russia shouldn’t have invaded. You don’t think Russians murdered any Ukrainian POWs? Remember the Russian soldiers who filmed himselves castrating a Ukrainian POW whop was later killed on film? Or civilians?

    Didn’t you say that you wanted people affiliated with the Kiev government to be hanged?

    Well, on their own channels, your Luhansk rebels took photos of “traitors” that they hanged.

    The only possible solution is elimination of this criminal regime, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.

    Your solution to a criminal regime that killed 12 (rather, 10) people in war in 2021 was to cause an invasion that has killed about 7,000.

    You compare the Ukrainian government that you accuse of killing how many? 100, or 200 people (Buzina, etc.) to one that killed 2 million, 30% or so of its population.

    That’s like comparing Russia whose invasion of Ukraine has killed about 7,000 civilians (documented) to Germany whose invasion resulted in 27 million or so deaths.

    Whatever you do, don’t pretend to be objective.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered.
     

    This happens in war.
     
    This happens in wars spontaneously. When the criminals film their crime and post it on the Internet, this indicates two things: premeditation and expected impunity.

    Remember the Russian soldiers who filmed himselves castrating a Ukrainian POW whop was later killed on film?
     
    That fake was debunked long time ago. Apparently, not in your echo chamber.

    Didn’t you say that you wanted people affiliated with the Kiev government to be hanged?
     
    Yes, I believe that everyone guilty of giving criminal orders and of committing crimes on the ground should be tried and properly punished. Hanging is the most humane punishment that would fit many of the crimes committed by the post-coup Kiev regime.

    Whatever you do, don’t pretend to be objective.
     
    If by “objective” you mean impartial, I never pretended that. I am firmly on the side of Donbass. Therefore, I am firmly against criminal regime that started the war in 2014. Since that time the bastards killed >13,000 adults, killed and maimed >500 children in Donbass, not to mention numerous other crimes the occupiers committed in the parts of Donbass they controlled.
  539. @songbird
    @AP


    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.
     
    Now this is an interesting analogy, but Italians don't use tomatoes as a symbol. And Russians eat a lot of sunflower seeds and use the oil too.

    BTW, I misspoke when I called the sunflower Mesoamerican. Current theory (which I forgot) is that it was domesticated in the eastern woodlands of the US. (there may have been a separate event in Mexico) Though, it's arguable how domesticated it was because apparently it reverted to wild type, once they got corn from Mexico. So as I understand it, modern sunflowers were redomesticated by Europeans.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds
     
    But it is kind of weird though because Russia must be the 2nd. And a lot of the gopniks there walk around eating sunflower seeds. And what now everyone planting a sunflower in Russia is a dissident?

    The three leaf clover is found on every continent but Antarctica, IIRC, but when St. Patrick used it to explain the Trinity, the sunflower was apparently a wild plant in America. And that was like 1300 years before the sunflower arrived in Ukraine.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    “Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.”

    Now this is an interesting analogy, but Italians don’t use tomatoes as a symbol.

    Sunflowers look much nicer than tomato plants, or tomatoes. They look like the sun, which is a cool symbol.

    “Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds”

    But it is kind of weird though because Russia must be the 2nd

    True. But it doesn’t stop Russians from celebrating vodka despite Ukrainians and Poles also enjoying it a lot.

    The three leaf clover is found on every continent but Antarctica, IIRC, but when St. Patrick used it to explain the Trinity

    Another nice comparison. Sunflowers are to Ukraine as clovers are to Ireland. Not quite to the extent as in Ireland, but a bit like that.

  540. @LondonBob
    @keypusher

    Casualties are much higher, good reason NATO 'mercenaries' are having to be brought in.

    Replies: @Sean

    Azerbaijan used mercenaries to great effect to win their war with Armenia I have seen estimates Syrian merc suffered >80% casualties. There are a lot of disillusioned Westerners who have fought in Ukraine onna net and it is not the kind of combat that they thought it would be (rash Russians exposed to superior fieldcraft and weaponry). A lot of the Russian problems were due to going too fast, they are moving at a snails pace with maximum use of heavy firepower and immediate fortification of any taken ground, which slows them down further. Winter weather will suit the Russians. People like Douglas Macgregor are still openly expecting a blitz tempo, and General Milley is maybe secretly worried about that too. I think the Russian advance will be slow but sure, with their traditional profligate and potentially ruinous wastage of manpower.

  541. @songbird
    @A123

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine's national symbol.

    Yes, I get that Ukraine grows a lot of sunflowers, and there is some linkage to Orthodox Lent or something. And that yellow is one of the colors of the Ukrainian flag. But it still strikes me as really weird, and I would suggest astroturfed. Maybe, something designed and promoted by the CIA.

    What is the history of it as a national symbol I wonder? What year does it go back to?

    What would be the equivalent? Americans adopting the soybean as their national symbol? (if it were more photogenic)

    I feel like this is the sort of thing that was designed to be held outside the Russian embassy. It is a kind of color revolution symbol. All the search results I get explaining it are from March. There's some mumbo jumbo about it being planted at a nuclear missile base in 1996 when Ukraine renounced control of its nuclear missiles (but really they were never under Ukraine's control, so how reliable is the story? And, yes, the CIA might have been promoting it back then). I have planted sunflowers on occasion too - it is not the same as planting trees. And my impression is that Russians themselves plant a lot and indeed consume a lot of them. (much more per capita than Americans, that people in Russia actually walk around with sunflower seeds to eat)

    And it is so creepy: there are supposedly Ukrainians telling Russians to carry the seeds in their pockets so when they die the flowers will come up. That's like what was said about freedom fighters in Ireland who carried barley in their pockets to eat it. Only people weren't taunting them about it - a ballad was composed about it.

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @A123, @Mr. Hack

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It’s an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America.

    10 generations ago nobody has seen this exotic Mexican flower in the Russian empire. But in the 1880s, it begins to be used for agriculture in the Russian empire as an economically important production.

    In 20th century, it is becoming one of the most significant objects for farming, very common for growing. Since the 1990s, Ukraine is the second largest producer of sunflower oil in the world, Russia is the largest. Sunflower is also an important production in Russian agriculture. It’s one of the common inheritance of the Soviet and Russian empire agriculture . By comparison, in the West, sunflower oil is a bit less common and they don’t sell in supermarkets unrefined oils which are good for adding to salad.

    In Soviet Union after the war, it was promoted as a symbol for Ukraine and Kuban regions. This is probably later after the use of flower in Diego Rivero as symbol of Mexican life .*

    When the Soviet Union collapses, the government of new country Ukraine then promoting sunflower as an official symbol in the 1990s. It’s not bad marketing for their sunflower oil industry also.

    It was astroturfed as a symbol by the Soviet government, but most all national symbols like this. Ukrainian nationalism is a fictional creation, but most all nations are fictional and recently created. Ukraine is artificial construction, but so are most modern nations.

    Nations and their symbols are a result of creative process, like any human things.

    *

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    My grandparents and the other elderly Ukrainian ladies in North America who used to decorate their houses with sunflowers left Galicia after the second world war. Their affection for this plant had nothing to do with Soviet rule.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    , @John Johnson
    @Dmitry

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It’s an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America

    So what? The Aztecs worshipped Maize gods and today it is symbolic for numerous African countries.

    Italian food is heavily associated with tomatoes.

    No one cares. Most traditions are not as old as people think.

    , @songbird
    @Dmitry

    Was going to suggest to AP that if I were looking for a symbol for Ukrainians, I would look to archaeology. Perhaps, something from the Scythians, but then I got to thinking about how maybe things taken from tombs might be considered dead, and how too much detail might be seen as an artifice. A thing made for a king, might not be for the common people.

    What can equal the appeal of a living thing grown from the soil? What inanimate object can parallel the living spirit of a nation? What is less material and commercial than something grown from a seed? Something a child can make or pick? (Here, the only thing that comes to mind perhaps is a musical instrument - for example, the harp for Ireland)

    But, of course, there are limitations to it. In geologic time, the nations are new. We must allow for the Ice Age scouring the land of all living things, and for them needing to be imported, whether from the south or from across the Atlantic. Not every place has its own rain forest and high biodiversity. Not every place was as ecologically separate as Australia.

    It seems to be that the only thing for most countries is to make do with imports, or else resort to genetic engineering to make a unique symbol, perhaps, to de-extinct a particularly charismatic megafauna - and some might see that as crossing a boundary.

    Replies: @LatW

  542. @songbird
    @AP


    Sunflowers are as Ukrainian as tomatoes (also from the New World originally) are Italian.
     
    Now this is an interesting analogy, but Italians don't use tomatoes as a symbol. And Russians eat a lot of sunflower seeds and use the oil too.

    BTW, I misspoke when I called the sunflower Mesoamerican. Current theory (which I forgot) is that it was domesticated in the eastern woodlands of the US. (there may have been a separate event in Mexico) Though, it's arguable how domesticated it was because apparently it reverted to wild type, once they got corn from Mexico. So as I understand it, modern sunflowers were redomesticated by Europeans.

    Apparently Ukraine is the world’s top producer of sunflower seeds
     
    But it is kind of weird though because Russia must be the 2nd. And a lot of the gopniks there walk around eating sunflower seeds. And what now everyone planting a sunflower in Russia is a dissident?

    The three leaf clover is found on every continent but Antarctica, IIRC, but when St. Patrick used it to explain the Trinity, the sunflower was apparently a wild plant in America. And that was like 1300 years before the sunflower arrived in Ukraine.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    planting a sunflower in Russia is a dissident?

    Paranoia of counterrevolutionaries was not banning sunflowers, at least until now.

    But there is political paranoia about objects that have yellow and blue colors next to each other. So buildings with yellow and blue have been repainted.

    For example, there was a shopping center with yellow and blue colors. So, immediately they removed the colors.

    Or there just a scooter service with yellow and blue. The colors of the scooters were after repainted to orange.

    When the borders of houses are painted with yellow and blue, it needs to immediately repainted as blue.

    • Thanks: songbird
  543. The Kiev regime is the side that has comparatively lost greater armed combatants and military pieces. With direct replies to Kiev regime/Western mass media propaganda, here’s an excellent overview on why the Kiev regime is militarily doomed –

  544. china-russia-all-the-way says:
    @AP
    @QCIC

    It’s very simple: Ukrainians don’t want to be ruled by Russia and will fight and kill in order to prevent that from happening. Americans will happily help the Ukrainians in their efforts. Russians stupidly invaded Ukraine because apparently their leadership bought its own BS about Ukrainians not caring about their “fake” country or something. So Russians are getting killed in large numbers by Ukrainians who are fighting to keep the Russians out. Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.

    Americans meanwhile get to see Russia’s military decimated for a fraction of the US defence budget and get to test all their weapons - at no cost to American lives.

    Replies: @QCIC, @china-russia-all-the-way

    Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.

    WASHINGTON — Russia’s war in Ukraine has left more than 100,000 of Moscow’s troops dead or wounded, and Ukraine has probably suffered a similar number of casualties, the United States’ most senior general said this week.

    “You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,” Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in remarks at the Economic Club of New York on Wednesday. “Same thing probably on the Ukrainian side.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-casualties-deaths.html

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Analysis of body counts means both sides are losing to me. The Germans lost WWI. The British and French also lost WWI. What did Stalin win besides humongous cemeteries and some goofy monument works?

    , @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,
     
    I smell a rat here. Simple first-grade level math does not check out. Russia invaded with ~160,000 troops. It took huge territory and still holds most of it, despite Ukrainian attacks where they are wantonly wasting their cannon fodder, as well as tanks, armored vehicles, etc., in huge numbers. If 100,000 Russian soldiers are out of commission, who beats off Ukrainian attacks and even advances in some places (e.g., near Artemovsk in DPR, that Ukies renamed Bahmut)? Ghosts? Aliens?

    Replies: @AP, @showmethereal, @showmethereal

  545. @showmethereal
    @songbird

    "You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you"

    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn't care less about your personal details... Nor do I care if you get bored with me or not. You are not a source of my entertainment. Frankly I find people like you weird. If you want personal info go find a dating forum.... From what I hear a lot of those people lie too. Your racial obsessions are actually boring to me. I'm on here to discuss geopolitics.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn’t care less about your personal details…

    I agree that songbird’s racial obsessions can be tiresome, but asking what your ethnicity identity is is a reasonable question in this forum. It’s not like asking what your marriage life is like. Nor can it be used to dox you. Almost everyone in this forum freely reveals their ethnicity: Mikel is Basque-American, Dmitry is Jewish-Russian, AP and Mr. Hack are Ukrainian-Americans, Songbird and Barbarossa are Irish-Americans, German_Reader is German-English, LatW and sudden death are Baltoids, AnonFromTN is Sovok-Tennessean, Sher Singh is a Canadian pajeet, A123 is an Israeli hasbara agent, Yevardian is an Aussie-Armenoid, silviosilver is an Aussie-Balkanoid and I’m a Saudi-Egyptian.

    Now it is your turn. What do you have to hide?

    • LOL: A123, Mikel, keypusher
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Yahya

    A Bajwa Jatt is the current protector of Mecca Medina.
    You're desert trash & a mix of Negro, Pharaoh & Ass-raper (Greek)

    >
    He's a Chinese Canadian on the East end of the GTA.
    ---

    Worship the Creator the Khalsa was sent to remind Muslims how||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    , @showmethereal
    @Yahya

    With all due respect…. How does anyone know if anyone on here is actually telling the truth? I could play the part of an Oxford or Princeton liberal arts professor and depending on whose bias is reading it they could believe it. I am far from one of those. But point being unless someone is a hacker or works for an intelligence agency - we have zero clue who is really who. Even IP addresses can be spoofs. But honestly though that identity stuff bores me. Each persons comments should tell how they they think rather than who they are.

    I prefer to discuss things like we left off in the last thread. For instance why is Xi being feted right now in Saudi Arabia (which according to many being treated better than Biden) if what the western MSM reports about the Uighurs is true? Xi and Chinese officials get the same great treatment from the Saudis rival and Shia leader Iran. Is the western media smarter than them! Or is the whole “innocent Uighurs being persecuted for their faith” real (since when did the western MSM ever care about Muslims anyway when just a decade ago Muslims were evil in the MSM and “all want to take our hard fight freedom”)? You say you are a Saudi Egyptian so what is your take on Assad? Aside from lobbying Russia to join in - the other major lobbying he did was to get China to clamp down on the flow of thousands of jihadis who would travel back and forth between western China and Afghanistan and Turkey - who basically colonized Idlib to fight against him. Of course the MSM put that story on the back burner… But China did exactly as Assad asked. The western MSM “shot themselves in the foot” because they gleefully went and were doing stories in the “valiant Uighurs who were going to take what they learned in Syria to go back and fight Communist China”. Well we see how it turned out. The Taliban made amends with China and no longer gives them safe haven - they are being controlled militarily in Syria by Russia. Indonesia and Malaysia deport them… And in China there relatives are absolutely cut off from contact with them. The other 90% of Uighurs do just fine. They actually have a high rate of entrepreneurship in China. If forcing the 10 % who had jihadists influence to learn trades and the national language and get jobs is violating human rights - then hey may all dissidents around the globe have their rights violated the same ways. Violence solved without creating more wars…

    On the last thread someone else and I had a discourse about Ukrainian boxers that I was fans of. I pointed out that 20 years ago western media would openly root for anyone to beat them because they were looked down on. Now they are all “heroes”. It’s a joke. It’s all divide and rule.

    Speak of that and the other thread. Most serious analysts say most of North Koreas missile programs were done with the help of Ukrainian engineers and scientists. Now look at these two mainstream pieces. If it was written today all the blame would be cast on Russia. That’s how western MSM works. (Like you blamed China the MSM via the neo cons originally tried to blame China but any serious look at the program shows it makes no sense as they are very different). Some Russian mix was thrown in by the MSM when many noted it was most likely Ukrainian influence. But even now TIME after naming Zelensky man of the year would now have to change its tune if this story were to have come out after this conflagration. Those are the things I prefer discussing on a site for “alternative media”.

    https://time.com/5128398/the-missile-factory/

    https://www.newsweek.com/did-ukraine-provide-rocket-engines-north-korea-its-nuclear-missile-program-658147

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @A123
    @Yahya

    As a Judeo-Christian I recognize the existential threat facing all Infidels. That hardly requires a stipend from a foreign power.

    Do you really believe I belong in any category?

    I could use some additional allies. What group openly announces the TRUTH that George IslamoSoros is a Muslim?

    PEACE 😇

  546. @Yahya
    @showmethereal


    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn’t care less about your personal details…
     
    I agree that songbird’s racial obsessions can be tiresome, but asking what your ethnicity identity is is a reasonable question in this forum. It’s not like asking what your marriage life is like. Nor can it be used to dox you. Almost everyone in this forum freely reveals their ethnicity: Mikel is Basque-American, Dmitry is Jewish-Russian, AP and Mr. Hack are Ukrainian-Americans, Songbird and Barbarossa are Irish-Americans, German_Reader is German-English, LatW and sudden death are Baltoids, AnonFromTN is Sovok-Tennessean, Sher Singh is a Canadian pajeet, A123 is an Israeli hasbara agent, Yevardian is an Aussie-Armenoid, silviosilver is an Aussie-Balkanoid and I’m a Saudi-Egyptian.

    Now it is your turn. What do you have to hide?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @showmethereal, @A123

    A Bajwa Jatt is the current protector of Mecca Medina.
    You’re desert trash & a mix of Negro, Pharaoh & Ass-raper (Greek)

    >
    He’s a Chinese Canadian on the East end of the GTA.

    Worship the Creator the Khalsa was sent to remind Muslims how||

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  547. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    latest wave feminist, LGBTQIA surprised if this correlates with further declines in fertility within this group
     
    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.

    Isn't this one of the illusions promoted in the current politics, where they promote simulation of disagreement, with abstract labels, as Marxism has predicted.

    So, the "traditionalist" posts some picture of a cottage on instagram, while the "radical" has to post a different symbol.

    The level of disagreement is like the mouse in the experiment has been trained to correspond different symbols with receiving food. The conditions of the animal are the same and it will probably behavior not much differently, just it was trained for different symbols.

    With apologies always refering to Russia. But you know the more funny examples this year. Canceled Starbucks, so now Timati (a patriotic rapper) has to change the name and re-open as the patriotic "Stars coffee". You can sit in "Stars coffee" as the rejection of the American life-style.

    government sought to address it by providing more contraception and abortions to teenage girls.. anti-natalist campaigns
     
    It's natalism or anti-natalism is kind of a wide category though for describing policy. This is kind of boring responsible governments' policy would probably reduce children in orphanages, abortions, or increase the sociality mobility, reduce crime in society. It's a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.

    Anti-natalism policies in countries like China could be seen as more somewhere between. As it's a lot related the authorities want to continue reduce the revolutionary conditions and the narrow pro-authorities motive which is not necessarily always a wider pro-society motivation.

    fertility rates of more religious or traditional countries with access to modern technology ‘bottom out’ at a higher level than secular ones and will the fertility rate in secular countries continue to fall
     
    Isn't it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.

    South Korea and Singapore looked very extreme demographic transition, as the fertility rate was 6 in the 1960s, when Ukraine was already 2.

    The main explanation from the development economists or historians would write, is "because South Korea and Singapore also has an unusual fast economic development". It's surely accurate for those countries.

    Explanation for South Korea or Singapore are inconsistent with though the story in the postsoviet space often promoted low fertility is "because of the lack of economic development after the 1991".

    If the economy has been successful in the postsoviet countries, they would say economic success is the cause of the low fertility. But the economy has been unsuccessful, so the journalists say economic unsuccess is the cause of low fertility.

    https://i.imgur.com/PxOKxMG.jpg

    Countries today which are "medium fertility" like Argentina or Israel. They had far lower fertility rates than current low fertility countries like South Korea.

    They were relatively "lower fertility" countries that just don't change much, even when Argentina has economy like Ukraine or postsoviet countries in recent times. Israel has economy a bit more like South Korea (although they were more developed in the 1950s and European parts of the population had demographic transition already before).

    If you want to explain with culture instead of economy, Argentina is perhaps not that much more "traditional" than Ukraine. But probably nobody would say Argentina are more traditional than Colombia.

    https://i.imgur.com/1pzOcXo.jpg

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.

    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.

    Similarly, some of the more extreme feminist beliefs, that motherhood is a patriarchal imposition and a means of controlling women would intuitively seem to have a negative impact on family formation. Same with the LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation. The belief that humans are going to provoke a climate disaster and destroy the world is again probably similar.

    These may not be the cause of lower fertility, they may be a reflection of some other factor, but if beliefs like them seem to spread or strengthen in a society, predicting that fertility decline will follow doesn’t seem unreasonable.

    The number of pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured. I find the argument that emergence of these beliefs is due to a reductio of liberalism, where its principles are being taken to their logical conclusions quite plausible though.

    It’s a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.

    This may have been partly what motivated it, there was a kind of moral panic about teenage mothers living on benefits around that time. Concern for social mobility and lowering levels of crime do not seem to have influenced government policy on other issues (say, single parent families or immigration policies), but a lack of coordination like this is not that uncommon.

    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.

    Isn’t it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.

    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world, whether the fertility there will continuously decline in the same way as appears to be happening in Europe and East Asia, but potentially some Latin American countries might also follow a different path.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Coconuts


    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.
     
    It may be the opposite in Western Europe. Scandinavia has far higher TFR than more-religious Italy and Greece.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Coconuts
    @Coconuts

    Unherd had another interesting article about Houellebecq today:

    https://unherd.com/2022/12/michel-houellebecqs-sexual-apocalypse/

    What I mentioned here might have reflected a more general 'spirit of the times':


    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.
     
    Near the end of his novel Serotonin the narrator says this:


    'I could have made a woman happy. Well, two; I have said which ones. Everything was clear, extremely clear from the beginning, but we didn't realise. Did we yield to the illusion of individual freedom, of an open life, of infinite possibilities? It's possible, those ideas were part of the spirit of the age; we didn't formalise them, we didn't have the taste to do that; we merely conformed and allowed ourselves to be destroyed by them; and then, for a very long time, to suffer as a result.'

    Houellebecq putting an optimistic spin on things again.

    Houellebecq sometimes reminds me of Maurras, who wrote an anti-romantic book about the notorious love affair between two of the greatest French romantic novelists, George Sand and Alfred de Musset, where he writes things like this:

    'One believed only in love and the other entrusted herself wholly to the harsh beauties of pride. So they scorned the living mechanisms by which the traditions of the human race, very evident among all civilised peoples, tempered pride and chained love. They dismantled every restraint. They suffered one after the other those natural necessities which torment everyone who returns to our primitive elements and discovered to what point the vengeance of nature is more cruel and malicious than that of society.'
     
    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    data emerging between.. feminist beliefs.. motherhood is a patriarchal
     
    Maybe. But these views connecting more abstract themes to ordinary life, look sometimes like a "Rorschach test" for journalists.

    Some people are writing "Western Europe has low fertility because they are liberal feminists" and also "Iran has low fertility because they anti-liberal anti-feminists". "Italy has low fertility because of high unemployment", but "Japan has low fertility because they work too much".

    Someone who dislikes feminism, will probably say (if they believe low fertility is bad) low fertility is because of feminism. Someone who likes feminism will probably say it is because there is not enough support for women.

    Those explanations are a "Rorschach test", are giving information more about preferences of person who writes the views, instead of signal in a scatter plot's noise.

    -

    In general, also in this forum, people seem to be obsessed with that kind of themes, without seeing the type of life is much more significant.

    For example, people who argue two opposite views against each other in an internet forum, are likely far more similar to each other than to anyone who doesn't write in an internet forum. We know the type of life in that time is the same - they are writing on a keyboard in the forum, having almost the same experience.


    LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation.

     

    You would assume a real level of LGBT preference is always the same in history as LGBT is not superficial, but inbuilt preference of a person. It's visibility of the sexual minority which is changing with different culture or different historical epoch.

    When the visibility is lower then fertility rate of LGBT people would be higher (i.e. homosexual men and women will be marrying women and men, instead of men and women).

    So, now the visibility of sexual minority people increases in the Western context, you would expect natality would decrease for this proportion of the population.

    But then in the future, natality of the open sexual minority people would be higher in context where they have income or culture acceptance for "assisted fertility". So, perhaps it could be like inverted-u shape of the LGBT visibility and natality, where LGBT natality will increase from the bottom of the inverted-u.


    pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured
     
    The only couple I know in personal life who have already 4 children, are leftwing vegetarians, with political views like "eat organic food", "we are destroying the ecology".

    It's kind of predictable, people who would think a contraception is "unnatural", will have more children, because they are directly avoiding to use contraception. It's direct causal mechanism ("contraception is bad") which has the influence, not more abstract views (i.e. "left vs. right").


    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world,
     
    Surely, we all would guess it shouldn't go so low, because their economic and historical modernization is so much lower.

    But then there are now those crazy counter-examples like Iran, which has now lower fertility rate than France and Ireland. Or Bangladesh, where economic level is third world, but the fertility rate is the same as Western Europe.

    So I doubt anyone can predict what will be the result in this question. Although the main reality we know is falling from high levels to more medium levels in the third world (e.g. Africa https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa).

    Replies: @Yahya

  548. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It's an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America.

    10 generations ago nobody has seen this exotic Mexican flower in the Russian empire. But in the 1880s, it begins to be used for agriculture in the Russian empire as an economically important production.

    In 20th century, it is becoming one of the most significant objects for farming, very common for growing. Since the 1990s, Ukraine is the second largest producer of sunflower oil in the world, Russia is the largest. Sunflower is also an important production in Russian agriculture. It's one of the common inheritance of the Soviet and Russian empire agriculture . By comparison, in the West, sunflower oil is a bit less common and they don't sell in supermarkets unrefined oils which are good for adding to salad.

    In Soviet Union after the war, it was promoted as a symbol for Ukraine and Kuban regions. This is probably later after the use of flower in Diego Rivero as symbol of Mexican life .*

    When the Soviet Union collapses, the government of new country Ukraine then promoting sunflower as an official symbol in the 1990s. It's not bad marketing for their sunflower oil industry also.

    It was astroturfed as a symbol by the Soviet government, but most all national symbols like this. Ukrainian nationalism is a fictional creation, but most all nations are fictional and recently created. Ukraine is artificial construction, but so are most modern nations.

    Nations and their symbols are a result of creative process, like any human things.

    *

    https://d26jxt5097u8sr.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/2020-12/PTL-19718_Sunflowers.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/08/c5/3b08c58cb6bcb1c033c021bdb7c68dbf.jpg

    Replies: @AP, @John Johnson, @songbird

    My grandparents and the other elderly Ukrainian ladies in North America who used to decorate their houses with sunflowers left Galicia after the second world war. Their affection for this plant had nothing to do with Soviet rule.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John (probably because Apollo was associated with serpents and crafts). In Kiev, on the Independence Square there is an obelisk crowned with a minor pagan goddess Werehynia statue shaped as the Carthaginian symbol of Tanit.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea had to do with all these Ukrainian steppes ? Why Ukraine has the symbol of rule over sea in its coat of arms as if it were United Kingdom? All these flower crowns etc in Ukrainian folklore remind me of the goddess Flora. Kharkiv's coat of arms is the cornucopia (attribute of Flora and Fortuna, wh0 - as some say - is a form of the pre-Aryan Great Mother) crossed with caduceus (attribute of Hermes Trismegistos, a main occult personality).

    I once heard that even KGB didn't manage to keep rural Ukrainians from their pagan celebrations on cemeteries. Interestingly, the custom was mainly driven by women. Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @AP

    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has "national connotation" as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol. Not just Ukraine, but also symbol of Kuban. It was probably to promote the seed oil industry, which they had been obsessed with expanding in this region.

    Choosing as national symbol, an Aztec flower introduced to the region in the 19th century, is a bit discordant, because people with higher education level will always perceive a native Central American connotation of the flower. It's not a local origin and kind of recent becoming so important in the Russian empire agriculture system.

    If we search literature, sunflower is not in Russian literature before a sentence in Nikolai Uspensky in 1850s. Sunflower seeds by Tolstoy near the same time in connection to the region, and Chekhov one time in connection to black earth region, but also one time in connection to Sakhalin island (next to Japan). By Gorky, in Tambov region.

    Romanticization of sunflower is a Soviet culture. In the 1930s they were very obsessed about increasing percentage of sunflower proportion in Ukraine/Kuban. Before the revolution, there is also a cliche that revolutionary or a young man is eating sunflower seeds carelessly. More recently, careless throwing of sunflower seeds is a literary stereotype with street hooligans.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

  549. @songbird
    @showmethereal


    are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves.
     
    of course, there are a lot of posers on the net, but the thing is they need to remain internally consistent, so it is not valueless to get an assertion of identity. At worst, it is entertaining to see them LARP, like Trix did after I called her (?) musculature unbelievable for a female.

    I shall put you down as someone boosting a country they don't live in, who feels too ashamed to admit it. Vicarious nationalist. Perhaps, some sort of self-hating mutt. You need not feel ashamed of it. There are many valued commentors here who are mutts.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? It doesn’t. It s clownish. For one thing I’m not an “anonymous” poster on here and my comments are not hidden. So that reversal psychology garbage doesn’t work on me. And people live in different places for different reasons. Anyone who doesn’t know that are immature intellectually.
    I could tell you in a former Maoist soldier from Nepal who admires the former helmsman and you would probably believe it even though not one single part of that sentence is true…. But anyway – Since you are one of these race nationalists then move back to the European country your family originates from. If you already did – good and then encourage all your kin to do the same. All whites should be in their European country of genetic origins or you are a hypocrite. See how that works???

    As to mutts I bet your genetics aren’t as pure as you think and that’s why you are obsessed with what breed people are.

  550. @AP
    @Dmitry

    My grandparents and the other elderly Ukrainian ladies in North America who used to decorate their houses with sunflowers left Galicia after the second world war. Their affection for this plant had nothing to do with Soviet rule.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John (probably because Apollo was associated with serpents and crafts). In Kiev, on the Independence Square there is an obelisk crowned with a minor pagan goddess Werehynia statue shaped as the Carthaginian symbol of Tanit.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea had to do with all these Ukrainian steppes ? Why Ukraine has the symbol of rule over sea in its coat of arms as if it were United Kingdom? All these flower crowns etc in Ukrainian folklore remind me of the goddess Flora. Kharkiv’s coat of arms is the cornucopia (attribute of Flora and Fortuna, wh0 – as some say – is a form of the pre-Aryan Great Mother) crossed with caduceus (attribute of Hermes Trismegistos, a main occult personality).

    I once heard that even KGB didn’t manage to keep rural Ukrainians from their pagan celebrations on cemeteries. Interestingly, the custom was mainly driven by women. Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Interesting post, thank you. But….


    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John
     
    The idea that these kindly old church-going ladies have a connection to Satan is rather amusing.

    No, it’s a pretty flower that looks like the sun, and is common and popular in Ukraine.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea
     
    Tryzub was the sign of Rus. There are suggestions that it derives from the Khazars who got it from the Alans and Sarmatians:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_the_Rurikids

    Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism

     

    This stuff was always popular. I wouldn’t say the pagan stuff is strong, though it may be stronger than in Poland. Do you guys celebrate Ivana Kupala, have fortune telling around Christmas, do ornate egg painting around Easter, etc? It has been incorporated into Christian tradition.

    Of course this seems overshadowed in popularity by British phenomena such as Halloween.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

  551. @Mikel
    @keypusher


    @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters.
     
    I know what you mean. But then again, look at comment 523. Let's not be unfair to all Trump supporters.

    You are right that Trump's support is dwindling though. Today I see about four anti-Trump opinion pieces on Breitbart, his former stronghold.

    Replies: @A123

    Everyone noticed that you ducked the question. Let me refresh your memory. Now that DeSantis is ineligible due to his 0% National Endorsement success rate:

    Who is your new RINO pick to run against Trump in 2024?

    You seem like a Mitt Romney type…. Or, do you have a different NeoCon in mind? You must have the SADZ that John McCain is unavailable. Maybe Lindsey Graham for you?
    _____

    is an Einstein among Trump supporters.

    Thanks for noticing my 180+ IQ.

    I would not call myself akin to Einstein. No one knows exactly how he would score on modern test. I suspect it would be much higher. That being said, the compliment is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. I placed Keypusher on my Ignore list awhile ago. He was exclusively generating noise, not content. I wonder if I should unblock him.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123


    You seem like a Mitt Romney type….
     
    Now, that was unnecessarily mean. I don't care about your calling me low-IQ yahoo, Islamodemon, Soroswarrior and all the rest. But associating me first with Zelensky and then with Romney is crossing my boundaries.

    Come to think of it, how did this all get so personal? We certainly disagree on Trump's merits and I may have poked fun at him but that's all there is to it, as far as I can remember. I don't care much about the topics you usually comment on and I rarely finish reading your posts. But some of the cartoons you post are quite funny and I have forwarded a number of them to my friends and relatives so that brings you to the net positive camp in my book.

    How about you come to terms with the fact that a growing number of people that used to support Trump no longer believe in his political future? Sooner or later, you'll have to do it forced by the facts.

    Replies: @A123

    , @keypusher
    @A123


    P.S. I placed Keypusher on my Ignore list awhile ago. He was exclusively generating noise, not content. I wonder if I should unblock him.

     

    I don't post very much, so blocking me or unblocking me is probably not going to affect your experience significantly either way. I despise Trump and am enjoying his ongoing eclipse, so bear that in mind.

    Other posters are more knowledgeable than I am about the topics that are discussed here, so overall I do better when I read more and post less.
  552. @songbird
    @A123

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine's national symbol.

    Yes, I get that Ukraine grows a lot of sunflowers, and there is some linkage to Orthodox Lent or something. And that yellow is one of the colors of the Ukrainian flag. But it still strikes me as really weird, and I would suggest astroturfed. Maybe, something designed and promoted by the CIA.

    What is the history of it as a national symbol I wonder? What year does it go back to?

    What would be the equivalent? Americans adopting the soybean as their national symbol? (if it were more photogenic)

    I feel like this is the sort of thing that was designed to be held outside the Russian embassy. It is a kind of color revolution symbol. All the search results I get explaining it are from March. There's some mumbo jumbo about it being planted at a nuclear missile base in 1996 when Ukraine renounced control of its nuclear missiles (but really they were never under Ukraine's control, so how reliable is the story? And, yes, the CIA might have been promoting it back then). I have planted sunflowers on occasion too - it is not the same as planting trees. And my impression is that Russians themselves plant a lot and indeed consume a lot of them. (much more per capita than Americans, that people in Russia actually walk around with sunflower seeds to eat)

    And it is so creepy: there are supposedly Ukrainians telling Russians to carry the seeds in their pockets so when they die the flowers will come up. That's like what was said about freedom fighters in Ireland who carried barley in their pockets to eat it. Only people weren't taunting them about it - a ballad was composed about it.

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @A123, @Mr. Hack

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine’s national symbol.

    I suspect that every nation has a national flower. Yes, America selected the rose. How original.

    Then each U.S. state has a flower [MORE]. Kansas directly shares the sunflower with Ukraine. Florida’s orange blossom is also crop symbolism. I generally think of state flowers as children friendly trivia to lead into a drier historical topic. Usually some explorer found, left, or was inspired by.

    I am vaguely surprised by the number of times sunflowers appear in Ukrainian promotional material. I suspect the absence of a threatening national animal contributes to this. America is The Eagle. Russia is The Bear. Ukraine is The Nightingale. That just does not work as war imagery.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

     

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    I am vaguely surprised by the number of times sunflowers appear in Ukrainian promotional material. I suspect the absence of a threatening national animal contributes to this. America is The Eagle. Russia is The Bear. Ukraine is The Nightingale. That just does not work as war imagery.
     
    Have you ever read Ringworld? What if they engineered their sunflowers to be like the ones mentioned in the story?
  553. @songbird
    @A123

    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine's national symbol.

    Yes, I get that Ukraine grows a lot of sunflowers, and there is some linkage to Orthodox Lent or something. And that yellow is one of the colors of the Ukrainian flag. But it still strikes me as really weird, and I would suggest astroturfed. Maybe, something designed and promoted by the CIA.

    What is the history of it as a national symbol I wonder? What year does it go back to?

    What would be the equivalent? Americans adopting the soybean as their national symbol? (if it were more photogenic)

    I feel like this is the sort of thing that was designed to be held outside the Russian embassy. It is a kind of color revolution symbol. All the search results I get explaining it are from March. There's some mumbo jumbo about it being planted at a nuclear missile base in 1996 when Ukraine renounced control of its nuclear missiles (but really they were never under Ukraine's control, so how reliable is the story? And, yes, the CIA might have been promoting it back then). I have planted sunflowers on occasion too - it is not the same as planting trees. And my impression is that Russians themselves plant a lot and indeed consume a lot of them. (much more per capita than Americans, that people in Russia actually walk around with sunflower seeds to eat)

    And it is so creepy: there are supposedly Ukrainians telling Russians to carry the seeds in their pockets so when they die the flowers will come up. That's like what was said about freedom fighters in Ireland who carried barley in their pockets to eat it. Only people weren't taunting them about it - a ballad was composed about it.

    Maybe, they should pick some symbol not domesticated by Mesoamericans.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @A123, @Mr. Hack

    Coincidentally, I was having a discussion last night with a biologist friend of mine about the relative merits of olive oil vs sunflower oil. She insisted that when frying foods, sunflower oil was safer to use than olive oil because it has a higher smoke point when in starts to impart carcinogens into the food that’s being fried. I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too, it has a wonderful nutty taste to it especially the unrefined variant. I still use olive oil too, and have settled on these two oils as preferable to all others.
    Great stuff if you can find it. Tastes great and is a good natural source of vitamin E.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I use a lot of lard, honestly. I just got a bunch to render up from my last batch of piggies. Leaf lard is great for pies and regular lard is great for cooking fat. Homemade lard is much better than store bought though as the latter has preservatives etc. Plus most crap in our food chain bio-accumulates at highest concentrations in fat so you want to make sure you know what went into your animal fat.

    We also use lots of olive oil, but I confess I haven't used much sunflower oil. I would expect it to taste great though!

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack, you have put me in a quandary, here I am warming up to the idea of the sunflower as a symbol of Ukraine, talking myself up to it, and then, you remind me that it is a source of "seed oils," which have entered into the jargon of health nuts and are even gaining cachet among nationalists, as being a toxic product of globohomo corporations.

    Now, I stress I am not a health nut, and I pride myself on being against fads, but I am left with the inescapable fact that lately I have been disgusted by the taste of deep-fried french fries, and begun to believe baked ones are superior in every way. I think baked win on taste, especially if you use seasonings.


    I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too
     
    Ah, now you have hit me again! A salad dressing derived from a nationalist symbol? Say it ain't so! (actually, I cannot abide salad. That is stuff Mikel's rabbits should be eating)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  554. @Yahya
    @showmethereal


    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn’t care less about your personal details…
     
    I agree that songbird’s racial obsessions can be tiresome, but asking what your ethnicity identity is is a reasonable question in this forum. It’s not like asking what your marriage life is like. Nor can it be used to dox you. Almost everyone in this forum freely reveals their ethnicity: Mikel is Basque-American, Dmitry is Jewish-Russian, AP and Mr. Hack are Ukrainian-Americans, Songbird and Barbarossa are Irish-Americans, German_Reader is German-English, LatW and sudden death are Baltoids, AnonFromTN is Sovok-Tennessean, Sher Singh is a Canadian pajeet, A123 is an Israeli hasbara agent, Yevardian is an Aussie-Armenoid, silviosilver is an Aussie-Balkanoid and I’m a Saudi-Egyptian.

    Now it is your turn. What do you have to hide?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @showmethereal, @A123

    With all due respect…. How does anyone know if anyone on here is actually telling the truth? I could play the part of an Oxford or Princeton liberal arts professor and depending on whose bias is reading it they could believe it. I am far from one of those. But point being unless someone is a hacker or works for an intelligence agency – we have zero clue who is really who. Even IP addresses can be spoofs. But honestly though that identity stuff bores me. Each persons comments should tell how they they think rather than who they are.

    I prefer to discuss things like we left off in the last thread. For instance why is Xi being feted right now in Saudi Arabia (which according to many being treated better than Biden) if what the western MSM reports about the Uighurs is true? Xi and Chinese officials get the same great treatment from the Saudis rival and Shia leader Iran. Is the western media smarter than them! Or is the whole “innocent Uighurs being persecuted for their faith” real (since when did the western MSM ever care about Muslims anyway when just a decade ago Muslims were evil in the MSM and “all want to take our hard fight freedom”)? You say you are a Saudi Egyptian so what is your take on Assad? Aside from lobbying Russia to join in – the other major lobbying he did was to get China to clamp down on the flow of thousands of jihadis who would travel back and forth between western China and Afghanistan and Turkey – who basically colonized Idlib to fight against him. Of course the MSM put that story on the back burner… But China did exactly as Assad asked. The western MSM “shot themselves in the foot” because they gleefully went and were doing stories in the “valiant Uighurs who were going to take what they learned in Syria to go back and fight Communist China”. Well we see how it turned out. The Taliban made amends with China and no longer gives them safe haven – they are being controlled militarily in Syria by Russia. Indonesia and Malaysia deport them… And in China there relatives are absolutely cut off from contact with them. The other 90% of Uighurs do just fine. They actually have a high rate of entrepreneurship in China. If forcing the 10 % who had jihadists influence to learn trades and the national language and get jobs is violating human rights – then hey may all dissidents around the globe have their rights violated the same ways. Violence solved without creating more wars…

    On the last thread someone else and I had a discourse about Ukrainian boxers that I was fans of. I pointed out that 20 years ago western media would openly root for anyone to beat them because they were looked down on. Now they are all “heroes”. It’s a joke. It’s all divide and rule.

    Speak of that and the other thread. Most serious analysts say most of North Koreas missile programs were done with the help of Ukrainian engineers and scientists. Now look at these two mainstream pieces. If it was written today all the blame would be cast on Russia. That’s how western MSM works. (Like you blamed China the MSM via the neo cons originally tried to blame China but any serious look at the program shows it makes no sense as they are very different). Some Russian mix was thrown in by the MSM when many noted it was most likely Ukrainian influence. But even now TIME after naming Zelensky man of the year would now have to change its tune if this story were to have come out after this conflagration. Those are the things I prefer discussing on a site for “alternative media”.

    https://time.com/5128398/the-missile-factory/

    https://www.newsweek.com/did-ukraine-provide-rocket-engines-north-korea-its-nuclear-missile-program-658147

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @showmethereal


    With all due respect…. How does anyone know if anyone on here is actually telling the truth? I could play the part of an Oxford or Princeton liberal arts professor and depending on whose bias is reading it they could believe it. I am far from one of those.
     
    You use your judgement as to how truthful the person is in general and what likelihood the statement in specific question is adherent to reality. For example, if sher singh were to claim he was, as you say, a Princeton or Oxford liberal arts professor, I would immediately dismiss that as a lie he concocted since evidently he lacks the political orientation and mental capacities typical of these types of professors.

    But when AP or Mr. Hack say they are of Ukrainian heritage, I take them at their word. Their actions and general character would point to the a high likelihood of telling the truth. There's not much reason to lie about your ethnic background unless you are trying to hide something or are a shifty character. That's why I neglected to speculate on Thulean Friend's ethnicity or yours, I don't know. But it's safe to say all my previous ethnic descriptions of everyone else is true.

    Our resident Sikh says your Canadian-Chinese, which would explain your shilling for China and the CCP. The Canadian part would also plug the hole of your lack of fluency in reading Chinese characters.

    But honestly though that identity stuff bores me. Each persons comments should tell how they they think rather than who they are.
     
    Identity shapes your politics and arguments. You evidently have not grasped this basic yet powerful concept. I recommend Orwell's Notes On Nationalism, which you can read in the link below, to rectify your conceptual deficiency.

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

    For instance why is Xi being feted right now in Saudi Arabia (which according to many being treated better than Biden) if what the western MSM reports about the Uighurs is true?

     

    The obvious answer is cowardice and callousness. You think a regime like the one in Saudi Arabia, which chops journalists to pieces among other things, is going to care about Uighur oppression? What kind of an argument is this?

    You say you are a Saudi Egyptian so what is your take on Assad?
     
    Not a fan, but he was the lesser of evils during the civil conflict.

    You're going to have to cite your countless assertions for me to believe them.

    he other 90% of Uighurs do just fine. They actually have a high rate of entrepreneurship in China. If forcing the 10 % who had jihadists influence to learn trades and the national language and get jobs is violating human rights – then hey may all dissidents around the globe have their rights violated the same ways. Violence solved without creating more wars…
     
    You're denials, excuses and deflections remind me of the sort of stuff I hear from relatives in Saudi Arabia. "It's all just made up by the Western media", "The totalitarianism is actually good for them!" and finally when their contradictions become to heavy to bear "It is necessary to maintain stability and order!"

    All it comes down to is national pride and a refusal to acknowledge that your country is wrong. The denials become even more accentuated when a member of an outgroup points out these national sins. Again, read Orwell's essay.

    I understand where the impulse is coming from, but personally I don't feel the need to defend every action of my national government. Sometimes it's just best to just acknowledge their mistakes and move on.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  555. @Yahya
    @showmethereal


    I think people such as yourself who ask such questions are frankly weirdos and are silly if you believe half of what people on here tell you about themselves. I couldn’t care less about your personal details…
     
    I agree that songbird’s racial obsessions can be tiresome, but asking what your ethnicity identity is is a reasonable question in this forum. It’s not like asking what your marriage life is like. Nor can it be used to dox you. Almost everyone in this forum freely reveals their ethnicity: Mikel is Basque-American, Dmitry is Jewish-Russian, AP and Mr. Hack are Ukrainian-Americans, Songbird and Barbarossa are Irish-Americans, German_Reader is German-English, LatW and sudden death are Baltoids, AnonFromTN is Sovok-Tennessean, Sher Singh is a Canadian pajeet, A123 is an Israeli hasbara agent, Yevardian is an Aussie-Armenoid, silviosilver is an Aussie-Balkanoid and I’m a Saudi-Egyptian.

    Now it is your turn. What do you have to hide?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @showmethereal, @A123

    As a Judeo-Christian I recognize the existential threat facing all Infidels. That hardly requires a stipend from a foreign power.

    Do you really believe I belong in any category?

    I could use some additional allies. What group openly announces the TRUTH that George IslamoSoros is a Muslim?

    PEACE 😇

  556. @songbird
    @showmethereal


    Like I said – you are obsessed with race. Stew in your own juices.
     
    You should disclose your ethnic identity and country base, otherwise people will just think that you are some deracinated Jordan Peterson fan and be bored with you.

    IIRC, Bromance pegged you as not being in China, which strikes me as an astute observation. Some additional evidence for this is that you mentioned body-building. Chengdu hosted the first World's Strongest Man competition that happened in China, in 2005. At that time, body-building wasn't really a thing in China, and they had to struggle to find any plausible Chinese contestant, and struggle to find ways to keep him from being eliminated too early. The method they chose was to create a mentor relationship with a more serious candidate, who stayed in the competition longer. Granted, it is now 17 years later, and that is a long time, but I would still say that it is a fairly strong indication that you are not in China.

    Meanwhile, your boosterism of China while not living there might be considered to suggest that you are something of a hypocrite, when it comes to thinking about race. Unless it is purely ideological, but I would guess not.

    And stop the folly about altruism. Only psychopathic nations think it’s a good thing that other nations or continents be poorer and less stable
     
    Why is your thinking so manichean? Haven't you ever heard of nuance? Self-interested does not necessarily mean the maximization of harm. There are cases where it can lead to good, or the benefit of others, but we still shouldn't delude ourselves that it is altruism.

    Oh and I never watched Wolf Warrior films because I heard they are just Hollywood movies rehashed.
     
    I wouldn't say this is an accurate characterization. The first film has strong nationalist themes, with racial undertones. Certainly not like anything Hollywood has ever made. That makes it a unique and mildly entertaining film, even if it may not be the best action movie ever made.

    The second film is trash, as it basically drops these themes, to take up virtue-signaling, but it is still quite interesting on a sociological level, even if it fails on a workmanship or entertainment level.

    So turning Hollywood medicine back in the west is bad to you
     
    Wouldn't say that I am the biggest booster of Hollywood here.

    Replies: @showmethereal, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Bromance pegged you as not being in China

    No I didn’t. I gave him a Turing test on Chinese literacy, identify a passage from calligraphy– and he failed, he/it can’t even read off of the characters and google the passage.

    And ChatGPT cannot do this, reading Chinese calligraphy is a working problem in computer vision.

    This is what I told Professor from TN— “Personal anecdotes told by Joe/Ivan/Chang over the internet” cannot be falsified.

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch! — Wolfgang Pauli

    “Joe/Ivan/Chang behind alias over the internet can not read Chinese” can be falsified by answering the challenge I gave.

    If he/it can not read Chinese, but can find someone looking over his shoulders who can, that statement above is still falsified, but evidently that’s not even the case.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    can’t even read off of the characters and google the passage.
     
    I found the passage with google image search in less than one minute and I cannot read a single one of those characters.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)

    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it. That is, they may receive something of an education in it, but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  557. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John (probably because Apollo was associated with serpents and crafts). In Kiev, on the Independence Square there is an obelisk crowned with a minor pagan goddess Werehynia statue shaped as the Carthaginian symbol of Tanit.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea had to do with all these Ukrainian steppes ? Why Ukraine has the symbol of rule over sea in its coat of arms as if it were United Kingdom? All these flower crowns etc in Ukrainian folklore remind me of the goddess Flora. Kharkiv's coat of arms is the cornucopia (attribute of Flora and Fortuna, wh0 - as some say - is a form of the pre-Aryan Great Mother) crossed with caduceus (attribute of Hermes Trismegistos, a main occult personality).

    I once heard that even KGB didn't manage to keep rural Ukrainians from their pagan celebrations on cemeteries. Interestingly, the custom was mainly driven by women. Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism.

    Replies: @AP

    Interesting post, thank you. But….

    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John

    The idea that these kindly old church-going ladies have a connection to Satan is rather amusing.

    No, it’s a pretty flower that looks like the sun, and is common and popular in Ukraine.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea

    Tryzub was the sign of Rus. There are suggestions that it derives from the Khazars who got it from the Alans and Sarmatians:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_the_Rurikids

    Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism

    This stuff was always popular. I wouldn’t say the pagan stuff is strong, though it may be stronger than in Poland. Do you guys celebrate Ivana Kupala, have fortune telling around Christmas, do ornate egg painting around Easter, etc? It has been incorporated into Christian tradition.

    Of course this seems overshadowed in popularity by British phenomena such as Halloween.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Apollo, like Amon-Ra, is also the god of the Sun, so there is no contradiction here. The Satan worship does not necessarily mean worshipping him in its most ugly form too - this is just Christian iconography anyway. And since Satan has an offer to anyone, it surely has an offer for old ladies too. Denying them possibility of being satanists, you deny them moral agency. Old people are not automatically innocent like babies, and babies are not automatically "little angels" in the way they are described on tombs (eg. "little boy enlarged the swarm of angels"): they are just innocent but that does not mean automatically "good" too. Personally, I find sunflower a pretty good symbol for Satan - glittery outside, but dark inside.

    As for Kharkiv, it is interesting that its deeply pagan coat of arms was established just in 1781. That would mean that crypto-paganism was well established in the Russian empire.

    However, in the cult of Jahwe, all polytheism is wrong, as it denies the First Commandment, the most important one. As it is, crypto-pagans probably fell under the Quranic category of "hypocrites". It is interesting that the hypocrites problem has become so pronounced in Quran, whereas Christianity apparently had encouraged them: this is why Christian feasts and symbols so often coincide with pagan ones: such is an answer of churchmen at least (gaining more souls is the utmost priority of the Church). During the Jesuit mission to China it became known as the acculturation problem: when Christianity stops being Christianity?
    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they "write" icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles). Well, at least Catholics are more straightforward in this respect.
    Considering such convolutions like 'writing icons' one has to ask why these pagans are so keen on being pagans, which leads to the obvious answer: because for them paganism is still their real religion.

    And no, in Poland we don't celebrate Ivan Kupala or have fortune telling around Christmas. We only do pisanki (painted eggs for the Eastern).

    As for Ukraine as a state, it is amazing why Ukrainians still use this runic Scandinavian Rurikids symbol, despite their entire history being spent away from sea, and the Rurikids history being more bygone than the Polish Piast history. Where is the Cossack banner of Archangel Michael...?! Moreover, Rurikids heritage is also claimed by Moscow, which naturally leads to conflict and war, similarly to the way Polish Vasa kings claims to be kings of Sweden led to the Polish-Swedish wars in the 17th century. If Ukraine is not Russia, as it claims, then it should avoid any Russia-connected symbols. What does tryzub actually bring Ukraine?!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Coconuts

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    I read the wikipedia article about Rurikids symbol, and the early ones do look for me as a form of crown, not necessarily of trident. The association with tamga (Mongol symbols of rulers) seems to be spurious, as Ukraine was not really under Mongol sovereignty, save Tatar Crimea of course where tamgas were quite popular: but why Ukrainians would adopt their conventions anyway? Also, on the timeline Mongols came after Rurikids had already got established.

    The association with Bosporan kingdom allows for direct connection to sea, but Bosporan kingdom is marginally Ukrainian in terms of culture: even before the current war, part of its ancient territory belonged to Russia.

    When does actually the direct identification with trident, or the name "tryzub" appear?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  558. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.
     
    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.

    Similarly, some of the more extreme feminist beliefs, that motherhood is a patriarchal imposition and a means of controlling women would intuitively seem to have a negative impact on family formation. Same with the LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation. The belief that humans are going to provoke a climate disaster and destroy the world is again probably similar.

    These may not be the cause of lower fertility, they may be a reflection of some other factor, but if beliefs like them seem to spread or strengthen in a society, predicting that fertility decline will follow doesn't seem unreasonable.

    The number of pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured. I find the argument that emergence of these beliefs is due to a reductio of liberalism, where its principles are being taken to their logical conclusions quite plausible though.

    It’s a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.
     
    This may have been partly what motivated it, there was a kind of moral panic about teenage mothers living on benefits around that time. Concern for social mobility and lowering levels of crime do not seem to have influenced government policy on other issues (say, single parent families or immigration policies), but a lack of coordination like this is not that uncommon.

    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.

    Isn’t it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.
     
    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world, whether the fertility there will continuously decline in the same way as appears to be happening in Europe and East Asia, but potentially some Latin American countries might also follow a different path.

    Replies: @AP, @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.

    It may be the opposite in Western Europe. Scandinavia has far higher TFR than more-religious Italy and Greece.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @AP

    Afaik the definitions of highly religious are based on high levels of religious practice and integral adherence to social teachings, so Amish, Orthodox Jewish, Protestant sects, traditionalist Catholics etc. The high fertility in these groups is very likely related to both the no sex outside marriage norm and refusal to use contraception.

    I remember seeing some stats for the fertility of white Swedes compared to ethnic minority ones (it was about 1.7 per couple or something? Higher than most other European countries but lower than the highly religious groups). The situation seems similar to the UK where data that breaks down by ethnicity rather than country of birth is harder to find.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @AP

  559. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP


    Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.
     
    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1598154181894103042

    WASHINGTON — Russia’s war in Ukraine has left more than 100,000 of Moscow’s troops dead or wounded, and Ukraine has probably suffered a similar number of casualties, the United States’ most senior general said this week.

    “You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,” Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in remarks at the Economic Club of New York on Wednesday. “Same thing probably on the Ukrainian side.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-casualties-deaths.html


     

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    Analysis of body counts means both sides are losing to me. The Germans lost WWI. The British and French also lost WWI. What did Stalin win besides humongous cemeteries and some goofy monument works?

  560. @A123
    @Mikel

    Everyone noticed that you ducked the question. Let me refresh your memory. Now that DeSantis is ineligible due to his 0% National Endorsement success rate:

    Who is your new RINO pick to run against Trump in 2024?

    You seem like a Mitt Romney type.... Or, do you have a different NeoCon in mind? You must have the SADZ that John McCain is unavailable. Maybe Lindsey Graham for you?
    _____


    @keypusher

    @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters.
     
    Thanks for noticing my 180+ IQ.

    I would not call myself akin to Einstein. No one knows exactly how he would score on modern test. I suspect it would be much higher. That being said, the compliment is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. I placed Keypusher on my Ignore list awhile ago. He was exclusively generating noise, not content. I wonder if I should unblock him.

    Replies: @Mikel, @keypusher

    You seem like a Mitt Romney type….

    Now, that was unnecessarily mean. I don’t care about your calling me low-IQ yahoo, Islamodemon, Soroswarrior and all the rest. But associating me first with Zelensky and then with Romney is crossing my boundaries.

    Come to think of it, how did this all get so personal? We certainly disagree on Trump’s merits and I may have poked fun at him but that’s all there is to it, as far as I can remember. I don’t care much about the topics you usually comment on and I rarely finish reading your posts. But some of the cartoons you post are quite funny and I have forwarded a number of them to my friends and relatives so that brings you to the net positive camp in my book.

    How about you come to terms with the fact that a growing number of people that used to support Trump no longer believe in his political future? Sooner or later, you’ll have to do it forced by the facts.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel


    Come to think of it, how did this all get so personal? We certainly disagree on Trump’s merits and I may have poked fun at him but that’s all there is to it, as far as I can remember.
     
    I am simply holding YOU to YOUR standards. You had this histrionic fit about Trump endorsements and the Senate. I mere applied YOUR logic to DeSantis track record. If you dislike Trump endorsements you must loathe DeSantis 0% national endorsement success rate.

    You make up a crazy, unrealistic tests that ignore the facts. Trump was burdened by:
        • Non-MAGA House
        • Non-MAGA Senate
        • Non-MAGA Judiciary
        • Non-MAGA Deep State

    Guess what. I get to create equally unrealistic tests and apply them your preferred candidate.
    ___

    You keep dodging the question. How can a serious RINO DeSantis primary run against MAGA and Trump have a positive outcome?

    If DeSantis:
        ♦ Loses the primary, damaging MAGA in the process, his future is dim.
        ♦ Wins the primary, but loses the general by dispiriting the MAGA base it is even worse.
        ♦ Wins the presidency while having no national soft power, he will be knee capped by anti-MAGA forces some of which still exist in the GOP (Cornyn, McConnell, etc.).

    Trump has now spent several years accumulating "soft power" with national fundraisers, rallies, ~90% endorsement success rate, etc. DeSantis will have none of that. Just like Trump, DeSantis will not be able to rely on the MegaCorporation controlled GOP establishment.
    ____

    If you are not a #Bidenista plant:

    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?

    How is a strong MagaSantis in 2028 not obviously better than a weak RinoSantis effort in 2024?

    In an effort to be #NeverTrump, you are laying the groundwork to recreate every outside force & limitation that plagued Trump's 1st term. Why not support MAGA efforts to make things better?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

  561. @AP
    @Coconuts


    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.
     
    It may be the opposite in Western Europe. Scandinavia has far higher TFR than more-religious Italy and Greece.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Afaik the definitions of highly religious are based on high levels of religious practice and integral adherence to social teachings, so Amish, Orthodox Jewish, Protestant sects, traditionalist Catholics etc. The high fertility in these groups is very likely related to both the no sex outside marriage norm and refusal to use contraception.

    I remember seeing some stats for the fertility of white Swedes compared to ethnic minority ones (it was about 1.7 per couple or something? Higher than most other European countries but lower than the highly religious groups). The situation seems similar to the UK where data that breaks down by ethnicity rather than country of birth is harder to find.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Coconuts

    Ed Dutton published a book about it recently:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Past-Future-Country-Conservative-Demographic/dp/1788360753/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RRI583JCCR9P&keywords=the+past+is+a+future+country&qid=1670515822&sprefix=The+past+is+a+futur%2Caps%2C254&sr=8-1

    But I've heard other researchers who are not Ed Dutton confirm there is growing data pointing to the link between religiosity, certain types of political beliefs and higher fertility so I give a certain amount of credibility to it.

    , @AP
    @Coconuts

    Ok. There is indeed a strong link between extremely strong religiosity found in people whose daily lives are focused primarily on their faith (Amish, Hasidic Jews, the trad catholic subculture) and large families. But not in the case of being merely devout versus being secular/agnostic/atheist. In fact it may work against it. Italy for example is the most religious country in Western Europe. 40% of Italians attend church at least once monthly:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/05/29/being-christian-in-western-europe/

    Yet Italy has one of the lowest TFRs.

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.

    Within Ukraine, nearly 80% of Galicians attend church at least monthly (49% do so weekly).

    https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021_Religiya.pdf

    Yet Galician TFR is barely better than Italy’s, and only good relative to eastern Ukraine. For similar reasons as in Italy. Church-going Galician girls won’t have kids without husbands, men are often working in Poland for 6 months a year, etc.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  562. @Coconuts
    @AP

    Afaik the definitions of highly religious are based on high levels of religious practice and integral adherence to social teachings, so Amish, Orthodox Jewish, Protestant sects, traditionalist Catholics etc. The high fertility in these groups is very likely related to both the no sex outside marriage norm and refusal to use contraception.

    I remember seeing some stats for the fertility of white Swedes compared to ethnic minority ones (it was about 1.7 per couple or something? Higher than most other European countries but lower than the highly religious groups). The situation seems similar to the UK where data that breaks down by ethnicity rather than country of birth is harder to find.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @AP

    Ed Dutton published a book about it recently:

    But I’ve heard other researchers who are not Ed Dutton confirm there is growing data pointing to the link between religiosity, certain types of political beliefs and higher fertility so I give a certain amount of credibility to it.

  563. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    Bromance pegged you as not being in China
     
    No I didn't. I gave him a Turing test on Chinese literacy, identify a passage from calligraphy-- and he failed, he/it can't even read off of the characters and google the passage.

    https://i.postimg.cc/DybxsJXy/ea852f1db8fdd385.jpg

    And ChatGPT cannot do this, reading Chinese calligraphy is a working problem in computer vision.

    This is what I told Professor from TN-- "Personal anecdotes told by Joe/Ivan/Chang over the internet" cannot be falsified.

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch! -- Wolfgang Pauli

    "Joe/Ivan/Chang behind alias over the internet can not read Chinese" can be falsified by answering the challenge I gave.

    If he/it can not read Chinese, but can find someone looking over his shoulders who can, that statement above is still falsified, but evidently that's not even the case.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

    can’t even read off of the characters and google the passage.

    I found the passage with google image search in less than one minute and I cannot read a single one of those characters.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    That's a way to hack the test. But did you copy-paste the poem into Google and use Translate to determine the author? Determining the context and meaning is additionally challenging.

    It doesn't matter because I already gave the answer on the previous thread.

    How about this one?

    https://i.postimg.cc/C5P0fsTW/175660414036224139.jpg

    Conversely if you or anyone else posts any image of a work of Chinese calligraphy, I will identify.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  564. @showmethereal
    @Yahya

    With all due respect…. How does anyone know if anyone on here is actually telling the truth? I could play the part of an Oxford or Princeton liberal arts professor and depending on whose bias is reading it they could believe it. I am far from one of those. But point being unless someone is a hacker or works for an intelligence agency - we have zero clue who is really who. Even IP addresses can be spoofs. But honestly though that identity stuff bores me. Each persons comments should tell how they they think rather than who they are.

    I prefer to discuss things like we left off in the last thread. For instance why is Xi being feted right now in Saudi Arabia (which according to many being treated better than Biden) if what the western MSM reports about the Uighurs is true? Xi and Chinese officials get the same great treatment from the Saudis rival and Shia leader Iran. Is the western media smarter than them! Or is the whole “innocent Uighurs being persecuted for their faith” real (since when did the western MSM ever care about Muslims anyway when just a decade ago Muslims were evil in the MSM and “all want to take our hard fight freedom”)? You say you are a Saudi Egyptian so what is your take on Assad? Aside from lobbying Russia to join in - the other major lobbying he did was to get China to clamp down on the flow of thousands of jihadis who would travel back and forth between western China and Afghanistan and Turkey - who basically colonized Idlib to fight against him. Of course the MSM put that story on the back burner… But China did exactly as Assad asked. The western MSM “shot themselves in the foot” because they gleefully went and were doing stories in the “valiant Uighurs who were going to take what they learned in Syria to go back and fight Communist China”. Well we see how it turned out. The Taliban made amends with China and no longer gives them safe haven - they are being controlled militarily in Syria by Russia. Indonesia and Malaysia deport them… And in China there relatives are absolutely cut off from contact with them. The other 90% of Uighurs do just fine. They actually have a high rate of entrepreneurship in China. If forcing the 10 % who had jihadists influence to learn trades and the national language and get jobs is violating human rights - then hey may all dissidents around the globe have their rights violated the same ways. Violence solved without creating more wars…

    On the last thread someone else and I had a discourse about Ukrainian boxers that I was fans of. I pointed out that 20 years ago western media would openly root for anyone to beat them because they were looked down on. Now they are all “heroes”. It’s a joke. It’s all divide and rule.

    Speak of that and the other thread. Most serious analysts say most of North Koreas missile programs were done with the help of Ukrainian engineers and scientists. Now look at these two mainstream pieces. If it was written today all the blame would be cast on Russia. That’s how western MSM works. (Like you blamed China the MSM via the neo cons originally tried to blame China but any serious look at the program shows it makes no sense as they are very different). Some Russian mix was thrown in by the MSM when many noted it was most likely Ukrainian influence. But even now TIME after naming Zelensky man of the year would now have to change its tune if this story were to have come out after this conflagration. Those are the things I prefer discussing on a site for “alternative media”.

    https://time.com/5128398/the-missile-factory/

    https://www.newsweek.com/did-ukraine-provide-rocket-engines-north-korea-its-nuclear-missile-program-658147

    Replies: @Yahya

    With all due respect…. How does anyone know if anyone on here is actually telling the truth? I could play the part of an Oxford or Princeton liberal arts professor and depending on whose bias is reading it they could believe it. I am far from one of those.

    You use your judgement as to how truthful the person is in general and what likelihood the statement in specific question is adherent to reality. For example, if sher singh were to claim he was, as you say, a Princeton or Oxford liberal arts professor, I would immediately dismiss that as a lie he concocted since evidently he lacks the political orientation and mental capacities typical of these types of professors.

    But when AP or Mr. Hack say they are of Ukrainian heritage, I take them at their word. Their actions and general character would point to the a high likelihood of telling the truth. There’s not much reason to lie about your ethnic background unless you are trying to hide something or are a shifty character. That’s why I neglected to speculate on Thulean Friend’s ethnicity or yours, I don’t know. But it’s safe to say all my previous ethnic descriptions of everyone else is true.

    Our resident Sikh says your Canadian-Chinese, which would explain your shilling for China and the CCP. The Canadian part would also plug the hole of your lack of fluency in reading Chinese characters.

    But honestly though that identity stuff bores me. Each persons comments should tell how they they think rather than who they are.

    Identity shapes your politics and arguments. You evidently have not grasped this basic yet powerful concept. I recommend Orwell’s Notes On Nationalism, which you can read in the link below, to rectify your conceptual deficiency.

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

    For instance why is Xi being feted right now in Saudi Arabia (which according to many being treated better than Biden) if what the western MSM reports about the Uighurs is true?

    The obvious answer is cowardice and callousness. You think a regime like the one in Saudi Arabia, which chops journalists to pieces among other things, is going to care about Uighur oppression? What kind of an argument is this?

    You say you are a Saudi Egyptian so what is your take on Assad?

    Not a fan, but he was the lesser of evils during the civil conflict.

    You’re going to have to cite your countless assertions for me to believe them.

    he other 90% of Uighurs do just fine. They actually have a high rate of entrepreneurship in China. If forcing the 10 % who had jihadists influence to learn trades and the national language and get jobs is violating human rights – then hey may all dissidents around the globe have their rights violated the same ways. Violence solved without creating more wars…

    You’re denials, excuses and deflections remind me of the sort of stuff I hear from relatives in Saudi Arabia. “It’s all just made up by the Western media”, “The totalitarianism is actually good for them!” and finally when their contradictions become to heavy to bear “It is necessary to maintain stability and order!”

    All it comes down to is national pride and a refusal to acknowledge that your country is wrong. The denials become even more accentuated when a member of an outgroup points out these national sins. Again, read Orwell’s essay.

    I understand where the impulse is coming from, but personally I don’t feel the need to defend every action of my national government. Sometimes it’s just best to just acknowledge their mistakes and move on.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @Yahya

    Sher Singh is exactly my point about these Internet forums. The fact that I know lots of Sikhs live in the”GTA” /and specifically Brampton and have a big temple there…. he must think I live there. I’ve been many times - but never lived a day in my life. But I could have run with it - because I know enough detail about life there to make it seem such. That’s my point. These discussions are a waste of time. I can even give street addresses. But I never lived there. And frankly it means Sher Singh might not either. My point is I couldn’t care less either.

    And I don’t know about the Saudi regime is like in Saudi Arabia since I never lived there. I also don’t go by what the MSM says. I know two people who lived there (one currently) and neither had anything negative to say. I don’t know all the circumstances regarding thag journalist who was killed in Turkey except that Biden and his hypocritical self removed MBS from facing any legal action. What I DO know is there is much more than meets the eye as that “journalists” uncle (Adnan Khashoggi) was one of the richest men in the world and one of the biggest covert arms dealers in the world. He was well loved and protected by the west. That journalists family were in very deep with many “connected” people all over the world and I’m sure his murder is much much more than meets the eye. But it’s not my problem to solve. I sure can point out the hypocrisy though. And that’s my point.

    But Are you denying there are tens of thousands of Uighur jihadists who fought in Afghanistan and Syria? Are you denying they were responsible for hundreds of attacks within China? Are you denying the fact millions of other Muslims live in China with no problems? I’m listing facts not diversions. Are you simply too prideful to admit you have been duped again by the western MSM?I told you on the last thread you can go freely and visit Xinjiang as a tourist unless you are an intelligence agent or work for western mainstream media. Plenty of Muslims do and even make videos about it. Go see the supposed oppression yourself. And make a vlog also. Also make sure you visit Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region too. Just don’t selectively edit like the BBC. If you feel I’m in the wrong then what’s the issue…? Do you think you will be disappeared? In contrast - You will find plenty of Halal food to eat.

    I see you also completely ignored the piece in the western MSM linking the Ukrainians with the North Korean nuclear program. I was going to point out how they messed up the narrative now in 2022 because in that 2017 - in trying to also implicate Russia they said Russia launched a proxy war in Donbass in 2015. That was their scheme then… completely ignoring the coup orchestrated by the US and the shelling done by Ukraine. But now in 2022 the whole narrative is changed even from that. But again it seems you choose to listen to western MSM if it fits what you think. Doesn’t make it factual at all and certainly not the whole truth.

    A Saudi Egyptian who studies Orwell…. Interesting…. I could create a profile on what I think your life story is… but I won’t. I rather stick to the news.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  565. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It's an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America.

    10 generations ago nobody has seen this exotic Mexican flower in the Russian empire. But in the 1880s, it begins to be used for agriculture in the Russian empire as an economically important production.

    In 20th century, it is becoming one of the most significant objects for farming, very common for growing. Since the 1990s, Ukraine is the second largest producer of sunflower oil in the world, Russia is the largest. Sunflower is also an important production in Russian agriculture. It's one of the common inheritance of the Soviet and Russian empire agriculture . By comparison, in the West, sunflower oil is a bit less common and they don't sell in supermarkets unrefined oils which are good for adding to salad.

    In Soviet Union after the war, it was promoted as a symbol for Ukraine and Kuban regions. This is probably later after the use of flower in Diego Rivero as symbol of Mexican life .*

    When the Soviet Union collapses, the government of new country Ukraine then promoting sunflower as an official symbol in the 1990s. It's not bad marketing for their sunflower oil industry also.

    It was astroturfed as a symbol by the Soviet government, but most all national symbols like this. Ukrainian nationalism is a fictional creation, but most all nations are fictional and recently created. Ukraine is artificial construction, but so are most modern nations.

    Nations and their symbols are a result of creative process, like any human things.

    *

    https://d26jxt5097u8sr.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/2020-12/PTL-19718_Sunflowers.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/08/c5/3b08c58cb6bcb1c033c021bdb7c68dbf.jpg

    Replies: @AP, @John Johnson, @songbird

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It’s an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America

    So what? The Aztecs worshipped Maize gods and today it is symbolic for numerous African countries.

    Italian food is heavily associated with tomatoes.

    No one cares. Most traditions are not as old as people think.

  566. On no. Even Merkel.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/567873-zakharova-merkel-minsk-agreements/

    My grandpa used to say preacher’s kids are the absolute worst scoundrels.

  567. @Mikel
    @A123


    You seem like a Mitt Romney type….
     
    Now, that was unnecessarily mean. I don't care about your calling me low-IQ yahoo, Islamodemon, Soroswarrior and all the rest. But associating me first with Zelensky and then with Romney is crossing my boundaries.

    Come to think of it, how did this all get so personal? We certainly disagree on Trump's merits and I may have poked fun at him but that's all there is to it, as far as I can remember. I don't care much about the topics you usually comment on and I rarely finish reading your posts. But some of the cartoons you post are quite funny and I have forwarded a number of them to my friends and relatives so that brings you to the net positive camp in my book.

    How about you come to terms with the fact that a growing number of people that used to support Trump no longer believe in his political future? Sooner or later, you'll have to do it forced by the facts.

    Replies: @A123

    Come to think of it, how did this all get so personal? We certainly disagree on Trump’s merits and I may have poked fun at him but that’s all there is to it, as far as I can remember.

    I am simply holding YOU to YOUR standards. You had this histrionic fit about Trump endorsements and the Senate. I mere applied YOUR logic to DeSantis track record. If you dislike Trump endorsements you must loathe DeSantis 0% national endorsement success rate.

    You make up a crazy, unrealistic tests that ignore the facts. Trump was burdened by:
        • Non-MAGA House
        • Non-MAGA Senate
        • Non-MAGA Judiciary
        • Non-MAGA Deep State

    Guess what. I get to create equally unrealistic tests and apply them your preferred candidate.
    ___

    You keep dodging the question. How can a serious RINO DeSantis primary run against MAGA and Trump have a positive outcome?

    If DeSantis:
        ♦ Loses the primary, damaging MAGA in the process, his future is dim.
        ♦ Wins the primary, but loses the general by dispiriting the MAGA base it is even worse.
        ♦ Wins the presidency while having no national soft power, he will be knee capped by anti-MAGA forces some of which still exist in the GOP (Cornyn, McConnell, etc.).

    Trump has now spent several years accumulating “soft power” with national fundraisers, rallies, ~90% endorsement success rate, etc. DeSantis will have none of that. Just like Trump, DeSantis will not be able to rely on the MegaCorporation controlled GOP establishment.
    ____

    If you are not a #Bidenista plant:

    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?

    How is a strong MagaSantis in 2028 not obviously better than a weak RinoSantis effort in 2024?

    In an effort to be #NeverTrump, you are laying the groundwork to recreate every outside force & limitation that plagued Trump’s 1st term. Why not support MAGA efforts to make things better?

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123


    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?
     
    Take the White House back from the open borders, woke, interventionist crowd.

    The idea that the only person in the world that can do that is Trump is ridiculous on various levels but in any case, it should be open to debate. That's why the Republican Party has held primaries, caucuses and state party conventions for more than a century now. If you try to prevent anyone from challenging Trump and people from expressing their preference for alternative candidates, you're not only in the way of the objective I explained above, you're trying to turn the GOP into an authoritarian personality cult.

    Btw, in his latest piece David Cole rips apart people that I still respect, like Tucker (in spite of his tiresome anti-China tirades and his excessive promotion of certain wacko figures) but, as usual, provides some good advice on how to avoid further fiascos:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/right-wacks-off-goes-blind/

    Replies: @A123

  568. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP


    Sadly, Russians are also killing Ukrainians while doing so.
     
    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1598154181894103042

    WASHINGTON — Russia’s war in Ukraine has left more than 100,000 of Moscow’s troops dead or wounded, and Ukraine has probably suffered a similar number of casualties, the United States’ most senior general said this week.

    “You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,” Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in remarks at the Economic Club of New York on Wednesday. “Same thing probably on the Ukrainian side.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-casualties-deaths.html


     

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,

    I smell a rat here. Simple first-grade level math does not check out. Russia invaded with ~160,000 troops. It took huge territory and still holds most of it, despite Ukrainian attacks where they are wantonly wasting their cannon fodder, as well as tanks, armored vehicles, etc., in huge numbers. If 100,000 Russian soldiers are out of commission, who beats off Ukrainian attacks and even advances in some places (e.g., near Artemovsk in DPR, that Ukies renamed Bahmut)? Ghosts? Aliens?

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Russia invaded with 180,000 regular army forces plus Donbas militia plus Rusgvardia. Including naval personnel our former host estimated it was over 300,000. It’s interesting that when the war started, the pro-Russians were given high numbers in order to prove that Ukrainians didn’t stand a chance but now that the war hasn’t gone well for Russia some of you try to minimize the numbers.

    Russia has continually added forces including during the partial mobilization.


    it took huge territory and still holds most of it
     
    Including areas around Kiev, Chernihiv and Sumy Russia has retreated from about half of the territories it had taken.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    , @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Isn’t it true that in Donbass - most of the front line fighting in the first half was being done by the LPR and DPR militias - as has been the case the past 8 years? Isn’t that the reason Russia only sent over 160k in the first place? So to me it would seem that the Russian military proper were mostly in the other regions … correct?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    It was too late to edit my last comment but I copied this article to another poster regarding something else. Skip down to the final quarter and see how they framed the war. Notice they don’t say most of the 10K who died were - not that most (if I’m not mistaken) of the 1.7 mill refugees fled to Russia.
    Western MSM knows how to work a narrative very well..

  569. @Coconuts
    @AP

    Afaik the definitions of highly religious are based on high levels of religious practice and integral adherence to social teachings, so Amish, Orthodox Jewish, Protestant sects, traditionalist Catholics etc. The high fertility in these groups is very likely related to both the no sex outside marriage norm and refusal to use contraception.

    I remember seeing some stats for the fertility of white Swedes compared to ethnic minority ones (it was about 1.7 per couple or something? Higher than most other European countries but lower than the highly religious groups). The situation seems similar to the UK where data that breaks down by ethnicity rather than country of birth is harder to find.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @AP

    Ok. There is indeed a strong link between extremely strong religiosity found in people whose daily lives are focused primarily on their faith (Amish, Hasidic Jews, the trad catholic subculture) and large families. But not in the case of being merely devout versus being secular/agnostic/atheist. In fact it may work against it. Italy for example is the most religious country in Western Europe. 40% of Italians attend church at least once monthly:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/05/29/being-christian-in-western-europe/

    Yet Italy has one of the lowest TFRs.

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.

    Within Ukraine, nearly 80% of Galicians attend church at least monthly (49% do so weekly).

    https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021_Religiya.pdf

    Yet Galician TFR is barely better than Italy’s, and only good relative to eastern Ukraine. For similar reasons as in Italy. Church-going Galician girls won’t have kids without husbands, men are often working in Poland for 6 months a year, etc.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @AP


    Ok. There is indeed a strong link between extremely strong religiosity found in people whose daily lives are focused primarily on their faith (Amish, Hasidic Jews, the trad catholic subculture) and large families. But not in the case of being merely devout versus being secular/agnostic/atheist.
     
    I think they are really looking at people with beliefs that are still closer to those of a couple of generations ago. Something else Dr. Dutton has mentioned (I don't know how strong the data is on this) is that people with far-right beliefs have tended to have higher levels of fertility than average, below the highly religious but above people with more mainstream political beliefs. This is another case where the beliefs and worldview would have been closer to the mainstream 70-80 years ago but now only dedicated minorities maintain them.

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.
     
    I can imagine this is an explanation, likewise with the situation in Galicia. Its one reason it can be hard to identify the real underlying causes behind low fertility levels.

    Replies: @A123

  570. @A123
    @Mikel

    Everyone noticed that you ducked the question. Let me refresh your memory. Now that DeSantis is ineligible due to his 0% National Endorsement success rate:

    Who is your new RINO pick to run against Trump in 2024?

    You seem like a Mitt Romney type.... Or, do you have a different NeoCon in mind? You must have the SADZ that John McCain is unavailable. Maybe Lindsey Graham for you?
    _____


    @keypusher

    @A123 is an Einstein among Trump supporters.
     
    Thanks for noticing my 180+ IQ.

    I would not call myself akin to Einstein. No one knows exactly how he would score on modern test. I suspect it would be much higher. That being said, the compliment is appreciated.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    P.S. I placed Keypusher on my Ignore list awhile ago. He was exclusively generating noise, not content. I wonder if I should unblock him.

    Replies: @Mikel, @keypusher

    P.S. I placed Keypusher on my Ignore list awhile ago. He was exclusively generating noise, not content. I wonder if I should unblock him.

    I don’t post very much, so blocking me or unblocking me is probably not going to affect your experience significantly either way. I despise Trump and am enjoying his ongoing eclipse, so bear that in mind.

    Other posters are more knowledgeable than I am about the topics that are discussed here, so overall I do better when I read more and post less.

  571. @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,
     
    I smell a rat here. Simple first-grade level math does not check out. Russia invaded with ~160,000 troops. It took huge territory and still holds most of it, despite Ukrainian attacks where they are wantonly wasting their cannon fodder, as well as tanks, armored vehicles, etc., in huge numbers. If 100,000 Russian soldiers are out of commission, who beats off Ukrainian attacks and even advances in some places (e.g., near Artemovsk in DPR, that Ukies renamed Bahmut)? Ghosts? Aliens?

    Replies: @AP, @showmethereal, @showmethereal

    Russia invaded with 180,000 regular army forces plus Donbas militia plus Rusgvardia. Including naval personnel our former host estimated it was over 300,000. It’s interesting that when the war started, the pro-Russians were given high numbers in order to prove that Ukrainians didn’t stand a chance but now that the war hasn’t gone well for Russia some of you try to minimize the numbers.

    Russia has continually added forces including during the partial mobilization.

    it took huge territory and still holds most of it

    Including areas around Kiev, Chernihiv and Sumy Russia has retreated from about half of the territories it had taken.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @AP


    Russia invaded with 180,000 regular army forces plus Donbas militia plus Rusgvardia. Including naval personnel our former host estimated it was over 300,000. It’s interesting that when the war started, the pro-Russians were given high numbers in order to prove that Ukrainians didn’t stand a chance but now that the war hasn’t gone well for Russia some of you try to minimize the numbers.

    Russia has continually added forces including during the partial mobilization.

    it took huge territory and still holds most of it
     
    Including areas around Kiev, Chernihiv and Sumy Russia has retreated from about half of the territories it had taken.
     
    The Kiev regime side is the one with the considerably greater number of armed combatant fatalities and loss of military assets, with the West unable to give it the arms needed to stand a grater chance against Russia.
  572. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    can’t even read off of the characters and google the passage.
     
    I found the passage with google image search in less than one minute and I cannot read a single one of those characters.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    That’s a way to hack the test. But did you copy-paste the poem into Google and use Translate to determine the author? Determining the context and meaning is additionally challenging.

    It doesn’t matter because I already gave the answer on the previous thread.

    How about this one?

    Conversely if you or anyone else posts any image of a work of Chinese calligraphy, I will identify.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    google image search does not show that one on the first page.

    Your previous test had five hits with the name of the author and the English translation right there plain as day on the first page.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  573. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Interesting post, thank you. But….


    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John
     
    The idea that these kindly old church-going ladies have a connection to Satan is rather amusing.

    No, it’s a pretty flower that looks like the sun, and is common and popular in Ukraine.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea
     
    Tryzub was the sign of Rus. There are suggestions that it derives from the Khazars who got it from the Alans and Sarmatians:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_the_Rurikids

    Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism

     

    This stuff was always popular. I wouldn’t say the pagan stuff is strong, though it may be stronger than in Poland. Do you guys celebrate Ivana Kupala, have fortune telling around Christmas, do ornate egg painting around Easter, etc? It has been incorporated into Christian tradition.

    Of course this seems overshadowed in popularity by British phenomena such as Halloween.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    Apollo, like Amon-Ra, is also the god of the Sun, so there is no contradiction here. The Satan worship does not necessarily mean worshipping him in its most ugly form too – this is just Christian iconography anyway. And since Satan has an offer to anyone, it surely has an offer for old ladies too. Denying them possibility of being satanists, you deny them moral agency. Old people are not automatically innocent like babies, and babies are not automatically “little angels” in the way they are described on tombs (eg. “little boy enlarged the swarm of angels”): they are just innocent but that does not mean automatically “good” too. Personally, I find sunflower a pretty good symbol for Satan – glittery outside, but dark inside.

    As for Kharkiv, it is interesting that its deeply pagan coat of arms was established just in 1781. That would mean that crypto-paganism was well established in the Russian empire.

    However, in the cult of Jahwe, all polytheism is wrong, as it denies the First Commandment, the most important one. As it is, crypto-pagans probably fell under the Quranic category of “hypocrites”. It is interesting that the hypocrites problem has become so pronounced in Quran, whereas Christianity apparently had encouraged them: this is why Christian feasts and symbols so often coincide with pagan ones: such is an answer of churchmen at least (gaining more souls is the utmost priority of the Church). During the Jesuit mission to China it became known as the acculturation problem: when Christianity stops being Christianity?
    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they “write” icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles). Well, at least Catholics are more straightforward in this respect.
    Considering such convolutions like ‘writing icons’ one has to ask why these pagans are so keen on being pagans, which leads to the obvious answer: because for them paganism is still their real religion.

    And no, in Poland we don’t celebrate Ivan Kupala or have fortune telling around Christmas. We only do pisanki (painted eggs for the Eastern).

    As for Ukraine as a state, it is amazing why Ukrainians still use this runic Scandinavian Rurikids symbol, despite their entire history being spent away from sea, and the Rurikids history being more bygone than the Polish Piast history. Where is the Cossack banner of Archangel Michael…?! Moreover, Rurikids heritage is also claimed by Moscow, which naturally leads to conflict and war, similarly to the way Polish Vasa kings claims to be kings of Sweden led to the Polish-Swedish wars in the 17th century. If Ukraine is not Russia, as it claims, then it should avoid any Russia-connected symbols. What does tryzub actually bring Ukraine?!

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Another Polish Perspective


    If Ukraine is not Russia, as it claims, then it should avoid any Russia-connected symbols. What does tryzub actually bring Ukraine?!
     
    I did some research on the tryzub a lot of years back and read something to the effect that the Riurikid princes of the north never actually used the tryzub within their crests or within any other attributes of their power. Certainly, within what we know of today as Ukraine the tryzub was used in much prominence with these attributes. So, to emphasize the continuity of the historical experience starting in the Rus period, Ukrainians have naturally been drawn to this symbol. So, the tryzub has never really been a "Russian-connected symbol". It was Mikhailo Hrushevsky who actually suggested and was responsible for having the tryzub adopted as Ukraine's national symbol for the modern period in 1917.
    , @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they “write” icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles).
     
    They paint icons because a core Christian belief is that God became a man and had a human face and body, a human mother etc. Clearly pictures could be drawn of them.

    If you don't think God had a human face someone else could draw it is more like being Jewish.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  574. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    That's a way to hack the test. But did you copy-paste the poem into Google and use Translate to determine the author? Determining the context and meaning is additionally challenging.

    It doesn't matter because I already gave the answer on the previous thread.

    How about this one?

    https://i.postimg.cc/C5P0fsTW/175660414036224139.jpg

    Conversely if you or anyone else posts any image of a work of Chinese calligraphy, I will identify.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    google image search does not show that one on the first page.

    Your previous test had five hits with the name of the author and the English translation right there plain as day on the first page.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Ok so "X cannot read Chinese" cannot be falsified by this test. There would have to be other tests of fluency with various levels of subjectivity.

    John Searle had a Gedenkenexperiment for this--

    https://i.postimg.cc/SQtzvdyT/1-gzeq-Az-G6-Flf-OBj6dp-KCX6-Q.webp
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

  575. @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    That’s why SBU is imprisoning and torturing people, trampling even Ukrainian laws.
     
    How many, in your world?

    That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered.
     
    This happens in war. Maybe Russia shouldn't have invaded. You don't think Russians murdered any Ukrainian POWs? Remember the Russian soldiers who filmed himselves castrating a Ukrainian POW whop was later killed on film? Or civilians?

    Didn't you say that you wanted people affiliated with the Kiev government to be hanged?

    Well, on their own channels, your Luhansk rebels took photos of "traitors" that they hanged.

    The only possible solution is elimination of this criminal regime, like Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.
     
    Your solution to a criminal regime that killed 12 (rather, 10) people in war in 2021 was to cause an invasion that has killed about 7,000.

    You compare the Ukrainian government that you accuse of killing how many? 100, or 200 people (Buzina, etc.) to one that killed 2 million, 30% or so of its population.

    That's like comparing Russia whose invasion of Ukraine has killed about 7,000 civilians (documented) to Germany whose invasion resulted in 27 million or so deaths.

    Whatever you do, don't pretend to be objective.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    That’s why in several cases Russian POWs were murdered.

    This happens in war.

    This happens in wars spontaneously. When the criminals film their crime and post it on the Internet, this indicates two things: premeditation and expected impunity.

    Remember the Russian soldiers who filmed himselves castrating a Ukrainian POW whop was later killed on film?

    That fake was debunked long time ago. Apparently, not in your echo chamber.

    Didn’t you say that you wanted people affiliated with the Kiev government to be hanged?

    Yes, I believe that everyone guilty of giving criminal orders and of committing crimes on the ground should be tried and properly punished. Hanging is the most humane punishment that would fit many of the crimes committed by the post-coup Kiev regime.

    Whatever you do, don’t pretend to be objective.

    If by “objective” you mean impartial, I never pretended that. I am firmly on the side of Donbass. Therefore, I am firmly against criminal regime that started the war in 2014. Since that time the bastards killed >13,000 adults, killed and maimed >500 children in Donbass, not to mention numerous other crimes the occupiers committed in the parts of Donbass they controlled.

  576. @Yahya
    @showmethereal


    With all due respect…. How does anyone know if anyone on here is actually telling the truth? I could play the part of an Oxford or Princeton liberal arts professor and depending on whose bias is reading it they could believe it. I am far from one of those.
     
    You use your judgement as to how truthful the person is in general and what likelihood the statement in specific question is adherent to reality. For example, if sher singh were to claim he was, as you say, a Princeton or Oxford liberal arts professor, I would immediately dismiss that as a lie he concocted since evidently he lacks the political orientation and mental capacities typical of these types of professors.

    But when AP or Mr. Hack say they are of Ukrainian heritage, I take them at their word. Their actions and general character would point to the a high likelihood of telling the truth. There's not much reason to lie about your ethnic background unless you are trying to hide something or are a shifty character. That's why I neglected to speculate on Thulean Friend's ethnicity or yours, I don't know. But it's safe to say all my previous ethnic descriptions of everyone else is true.

    Our resident Sikh says your Canadian-Chinese, which would explain your shilling for China and the CCP. The Canadian part would also plug the hole of your lack of fluency in reading Chinese characters.

    But honestly though that identity stuff bores me. Each persons comments should tell how they they think rather than who they are.
     
    Identity shapes your politics and arguments. You evidently have not grasped this basic yet powerful concept. I recommend Orwell's Notes On Nationalism, which you can read in the link below, to rectify your conceptual deficiency.

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

    For instance why is Xi being feted right now in Saudi Arabia (which according to many being treated better than Biden) if what the western MSM reports about the Uighurs is true?

     

    The obvious answer is cowardice and callousness. You think a regime like the one in Saudi Arabia, which chops journalists to pieces among other things, is going to care about Uighur oppression? What kind of an argument is this?

    You say you are a Saudi Egyptian so what is your take on Assad?
     
    Not a fan, but he was the lesser of evils during the civil conflict.

    You're going to have to cite your countless assertions for me to believe them.

    he other 90% of Uighurs do just fine. They actually have a high rate of entrepreneurship in China. If forcing the 10 % who had jihadists influence to learn trades and the national language and get jobs is violating human rights – then hey may all dissidents around the globe have their rights violated the same ways. Violence solved without creating more wars…
     
    You're denials, excuses and deflections remind me of the sort of stuff I hear from relatives in Saudi Arabia. "It's all just made up by the Western media", "The totalitarianism is actually good for them!" and finally when their contradictions become to heavy to bear "It is necessary to maintain stability and order!"

    All it comes down to is national pride and a refusal to acknowledge that your country is wrong. The denials become even more accentuated when a member of an outgroup points out these national sins. Again, read Orwell's essay.

    I understand where the impulse is coming from, but personally I don't feel the need to defend every action of my national government. Sometimes it's just best to just acknowledge their mistakes and move on.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Sher Singh is exactly my point about these Internet forums. The fact that I know lots of Sikhs live in the”GTA” /and specifically Brampton and have a big temple there…. he must think I live there. I’ve been many times – but never lived a day in my life. But I could have run with it – because I know enough detail about life there to make it seem such. That’s my point. These discussions are a waste of time. I can even give street addresses. But I never lived there. And frankly it means Sher Singh might not either. My point is I couldn’t care less either.

    And I don’t know about the Saudi regime is like in Saudi Arabia since I never lived there. I also don’t go by what the MSM says. I know two people who lived there (one currently) and neither had anything negative to say. I don’t know all the circumstances regarding thag journalist who was killed in Turkey except that Biden and his hypocritical self removed MBS from facing any legal action. What I DO know is there is much more than meets the eye as that “journalists” uncle (Adnan Khashoggi) was one of the richest men in the world and one of the biggest covert arms dealers in the world. He was well loved and protected by the west. That journalists family were in very deep with many “connected” people all over the world and I’m sure his murder is much much more than meets the eye. But it’s not my problem to solve. I sure can point out the hypocrisy though. And that’s my point.

    But Are you denying there are tens of thousands of Uighur jihadists who fought in Afghanistan and Syria? Are you denying they were responsible for hundreds of attacks within China? Are you denying the fact millions of other Muslims live in China with no problems? I’m listing facts not diversions. Are you simply too prideful to admit you have been duped again by the western MSM?I told you on the last thread you can go freely and visit Xinjiang as a tourist unless you are an intelligence agent or work for western mainstream media. Plenty of Muslims do and even make videos about it. Go see the supposed oppression yourself. And make a vlog also. Also make sure you visit Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region too. Just don’t selectively edit like the BBC. If you feel I’m in the wrong then what’s the issue…? Do you think you will be disappeared? In contrast – You will find plenty of Halal food to eat.

    I see you also completely ignored the piece in the western MSM linking the Ukrainians with the North Korean nuclear program. I was going to point out how they messed up the narrative now in 2022 because in that 2017 – in trying to also implicate Russia they said Russia launched a proxy war in Donbass in 2015. That was their scheme then… completely ignoring the coup orchestrated by the US and the shelling done by Ukraine. But now in 2022 the whole narrative is changed even from that. But again it seems you choose to listen to western MSM if it fits what you think. Doesn’t make it factual at all and certainly not the whole truth.

    A Saudi Egyptian who studies Orwell…. Interesting…. I could create a profile on what I think your life story is… but I won’t. I rather stick to the news.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @showmethereal

    Das is Resident of Anandpur Sahib.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anandpur_Sahib

    The Arab with his limitless intellect,
    Procures the concubine the Singh handles with stamina.


    Have read most of the Liberal philosophical texts ie Mills, Bentham, Wolstonecraft, Rosseau w/e
    When you apply a zero-sum tribal lens to it, invariably it turns into:

    Allow Anglo + W Euros unfettered access to Zar Zan Zameen so they can 'improve' you.
    Those who fall for it are stupid - I become a Liberal I get to be unarmed, why do that??
     
    https://akarlin.com/2009/09/struggle-europe-mankind/



    https://www.instagram.com/p/Cj0scIqs242/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ
  577. @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,
     
    I smell a rat here. Simple first-grade level math does not check out. Russia invaded with ~160,000 troops. It took huge territory and still holds most of it, despite Ukrainian attacks where they are wantonly wasting their cannon fodder, as well as tanks, armored vehicles, etc., in huge numbers. If 100,000 Russian soldiers are out of commission, who beats off Ukrainian attacks and even advances in some places (e.g., near Artemovsk in DPR, that Ukies renamed Bahmut)? Ghosts? Aliens?

    Replies: @AP, @showmethereal, @showmethereal

    Isn’t it true that in Donbass – most of the front line fighting in the first half was being done by the LPR and DPR militias – as has been the case the past 8 years? Isn’t that the reason Russia only sent over 160k in the first place? So to me it would seem that the Russian military proper were mostly in the other regions … correct?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    Isn’t it true that in Donbass – most of the front line fighting in the first half was being done by the LPR and DPR militias – as has been the case the past 8 years? Isn’t that the reason Russia only sent over 160k in the first place? So to me it would seem that the Russian military proper were mostly in the other regions … correct?
     
    I have no first-hand knowledge about the beginning. Circumstantial evidence suggests that there was a significant Russian force in Donbass. For many years local freedom fighters only managed to maintain the front, but did not have the strength to advance. Within a short period after the RF joined the war virtually all territory of LPR and a big chunk of DPR were liberated. This suggests a considerable shift in the balance of military strength.

    During my visit to Lugansk this October I saw many Russian military vehicles and soldiers. Did not see any tanks or armored vehicles, but Lugansk is very far from the front line. I saw heavy Russian non-military equipment involved in repairs of the two bridges on the road from Lugansk to Stanitsa Luganskaya that were blown up by Ukies years ago. I was also told that Russians made a good road between Lugansk and Donetsk. This road was in a dismal state in Ukrainian period, when I was driven many times from Donetsk airport (where Lufthansa used to fly from Munich) to Lugansk and back. However, I did not see that road myself.

    Replies: @showmethereal

  578. @Dmitry
    @songbird

    I agree it seemed discordant, for the Aztec flower, worshiped for thousands of years by the Mesoamericans, native for the subtropical sun, to be recently used as a symbol of a country in Europe. It's an agriculturally important export from the Soviet Union, but it has the connotation of Central America.

    10 generations ago nobody has seen this exotic Mexican flower in the Russian empire. But in the 1880s, it begins to be used for agriculture in the Russian empire as an economically important production.

    In 20th century, it is becoming one of the most significant objects for farming, very common for growing. Since the 1990s, Ukraine is the second largest producer of sunflower oil in the world, Russia is the largest. Sunflower is also an important production in Russian agriculture. It's one of the common inheritance of the Soviet and Russian empire agriculture . By comparison, in the West, sunflower oil is a bit less common and they don't sell in supermarkets unrefined oils which are good for adding to salad.

    In Soviet Union after the war, it was promoted as a symbol for Ukraine and Kuban regions. This is probably later after the use of flower in Diego Rivero as symbol of Mexican life .*

    When the Soviet Union collapses, the government of new country Ukraine then promoting sunflower as an official symbol in the 1990s. It's not bad marketing for their sunflower oil industry also.

    It was astroturfed as a symbol by the Soviet government, but most all national symbols like this. Ukrainian nationalism is a fictional creation, but most all nations are fictional and recently created. Ukraine is artificial construction, but so are most modern nations.

    Nations and their symbols are a result of creative process, like any human things.

    *

    https://d26jxt5097u8sr.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/2020-12/PTL-19718_Sunflowers.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/08/c5/3b08c58cb6bcb1c033c021bdb7c68dbf.jpg

    Replies: @AP, @John Johnson, @songbird

    Was going to suggest to AP that if I were looking for a symbol for Ukrainians, I would look to archaeology. Perhaps, something from the Scythians, but then I got to thinking about how maybe things taken from tombs might be considered dead, and how too much detail might be seen as an artifice. A thing made for a king, might not be for the common people.

    What can equal the appeal of a living thing grown from the soil? What inanimate object can parallel the living spirit of a nation? What is less material and commercial than something grown from a seed? Something a child can make or pick? (Here, the only thing that comes to mind perhaps is a musical instrument – for example, the harp for Ireland)

    But, of course, there are limitations to it. In geologic time, the nations are new. We must allow for the Ice Age scouring the land of all living things, and for them needing to be imported, whether from the south or from across the Atlantic. Not every place has its own rain forest and high biodiversity. Not every place was as ecologically separate as Australia.

    It seems to be that the only thing for most countries is to make do with imports, or else resort to genetic engineering to make a unique symbol, perhaps, to de-extinct a particularly charismatic megafauna – and some might see that as crossing a boundary.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    What is less material and commercial than something grown from a seed? Something a child can make or pick? (Here, the only thing that comes to mind perhaps is a musical instrument – for example, the harp for Ireland)
     
    The Ukrainians have that. They have bandura - a folk string instrument that is quite prominently used, when I first encountered it, it seemed quite distinct (definitely didn't seem "northern"). Zither is quite common in Europe including in other EE nations, but this instrument is like a giant, round zither held like a guitar.

    Another very distinct instrument is the Hutsul trembita (an alpine horn) - it has a very particular, an almost "exotic" (as in "unusual") sound that one immediately associates with Western Ukraine and the Carpathian mountains. I remember many years ago listening to a Ukrainian metal band and they used this instrument in one of their intros - it struck me as something very original and distinct and created an amazing atmosphere.

    The trembita is often used in contemporary Ukrainian pop songs as well. I'd say, trembita is already distinct within the Ukrainian context, since it comes from one region, but they have adopted it as the "national sound".

    Replies: @LatW

  579. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Interesting post, thank you. But….


    Sunflowers are associated with Apollo, the name of Satan in the Revelation of St John
     
    The idea that these kindly old church-going ladies have a connection to Satan is rather amusing.

    No, it’s a pretty flower that looks like the sun, and is common and popular in Ukraine.

    Is this remnant of the deep-entrenched paganism of Ukrainians, together with tryzub/trident, which makes you wonder what sea
     
    Tryzub was the sign of Rus. There are suggestions that it derives from the Khazars who got it from the Alans and Sarmatians:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_of_the_Rurikids

    Nowadays, in both Ukraine and Russia sightseers, fortune tellers and astrologers are quite popular, much more than in Poland, which again could point to the strong legacy of paganism

     

    This stuff was always popular. I wouldn’t say the pagan stuff is strong, though it may be stronger than in Poland. Do you guys celebrate Ivana Kupala, have fortune telling around Christmas, do ornate egg painting around Easter, etc? It has been incorporated into Christian tradition.

    Of course this seems overshadowed in popularity by British phenomena such as Halloween.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    I read the wikipedia article about Rurikids symbol, and the early ones do look for me as a form of crown, not necessarily of trident. The association with tamga (Mongol symbols of rulers) seems to be spurious, as Ukraine was not really under Mongol sovereignty, save Tatar Crimea of course where tamgas were quite popular: but why Ukrainians would adopt their conventions anyway? Also, on the timeline Mongols came after Rurikids had already got established.

    The association with Bosporan kingdom allows for direct connection to sea, but Bosporan kingdom is marginally Ukrainian in terms of culture: even before the current war, part of its ancient territory belonged to Russia.

    When does actually the direct identification with trident, or the name “tryzub” appear?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Last year, there was an exhibition in Cracow devoted to Crimean coinage: I visited it and I remember pretty well that among examples of foreign coins circulating in Crimea with counter-stamps of chans, there was no specifically Ukrainian coinage, just Polish/Lithuanian, Genoese and Ottoman ones. I haven't seen tryzub there too.

    https://mnk.pl/exhibitions/186

  580. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    I read the wikipedia article about Rurikids symbol, and the early ones do look for me as a form of crown, not necessarily of trident. The association with tamga (Mongol symbols of rulers) seems to be spurious, as Ukraine was not really under Mongol sovereignty, save Tatar Crimea of course where tamgas were quite popular: but why Ukrainians would adopt their conventions anyway? Also, on the timeline Mongols came after Rurikids had already got established.

    The association with Bosporan kingdom allows for direct connection to sea, but Bosporan kingdom is marginally Ukrainian in terms of culture: even before the current war, part of its ancient territory belonged to Russia.

    When does actually the direct identification with trident, or the name "tryzub" appear?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Last year, there was an exhibition in Cracow devoted to Crimean coinage: I visited it and I remember pretty well that among examples of foreign coins circulating in Crimea with counter-stamps of chans, there was no specifically Ukrainian coinage, just Polish/Lithuanian, Genoese and Ottoman ones. I haven’t seen tryzub there too.

    https://mnk.pl/exhibitions/186

  581. @AnonfromTN
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    You’re looking at well over 100,000 Russian soldiers killed and wounded,
     
    I smell a rat here. Simple first-grade level math does not check out. Russia invaded with ~160,000 troops. It took huge territory and still holds most of it, despite Ukrainian attacks where they are wantonly wasting their cannon fodder, as well as tanks, armored vehicles, etc., in huge numbers. If 100,000 Russian soldiers are out of commission, who beats off Ukrainian attacks and even advances in some places (e.g., near Artemovsk in DPR, that Ukies renamed Bahmut)? Ghosts? Aliens?

    Replies: @AP, @showmethereal, @showmethereal

    It was too late to edit my last comment but I copied this article to another poster regarding something else. Skip down to the final quarter and see how they framed the war. Notice they don’t say most of the 10K who died were – not that most (if I’m not mistaken) of the 1.7 mill refugees fled to Russia.
    Western MSM knows how to work a narrative very well..

  582. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Coincidentally, I was having a discussion last night with a biologist friend of mine about the relative merits of olive oil vs sunflower oil. She insisted that when frying foods, sunflower oil was safer to use than olive oil because it has a higher smoke point when in starts to impart carcinogens into the food that's being fried. I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too, it has a wonderful nutty taste to it especially the unrefined variant. I still use olive oil too, and have settled on these two oils as preferable to all others.

    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61i1qsNZH+L._SX569_.jpg
    Great stuff if you can find it. Tastes great and is a good natural source of vitamin E.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

    I use a lot of lard, honestly. I just got a bunch to render up from my last batch of piggies. Leaf lard is great for pies and regular lard is great for cooking fat. Homemade lard is much better than store bought though as the latter has preservatives etc. Plus most crap in our food chain bio-accumulates at highest concentrations in fat so you want to make sure you know what went into your animal fat.

    We also use lots of olive oil, but I confess I haven’t used much sunflower oil. I would expect it to taste great though!

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Barbarossa


    We also use lots of olive oil, but I confess I haven’t used much sunflower oil. I would expect it to taste great though!
     
    Unrefined sunflower oil tastes great. My grandma used it a lot. I still fondly remember her cooking. However, refined has no taste whatsoever. Olive oil, even virgin cold press variety, is more generic, although it does have a taste (if it was produced in Greece, Italy, or Spain). If you like oils with a distinct taste, try sesame seed oil. But don’t get it in an American supermarket, find an Asian store and buy sesame seed oil made somewhere in Asia, not in the US.

    Replies: @Mikel

  583. @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    In all of 2021 the number of civilians killed was about 12.
     
    So, in your book 12 murders are not a crime? Then almost all murderers all over the world are innocent lambs.

    Replies: @AP, @Philip Owen

    Almost all from stepping on mines.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Philip Owen


    Almost all from stepping on mines.
     
    Ukies scattered a lot of mines. Surprisingly, many on the territories very far from the front line. E.g., just yesterday a car with a married couple was blown up by Ukie anti-tank mine in Zhitomir region. Both died, leaving their kinds orphans:

    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/72317

    Also, a lot of Ukie soldiers get blown up stepping on Ukrainian mines. Problem is, often Ukies do not make maps of their own minefields. Even if they do, when the units rotate, the commanders of outgoing unit demand a bribe from the incoming unit for those maps. If they don’t get the bribe, they don’t hand over the maps, which leads to casualties.
  584. @A123
    @Mikel


    Come to think of it, how did this all get so personal? We certainly disagree on Trump’s merits and I may have poked fun at him but that’s all there is to it, as far as I can remember.
     
    I am simply holding YOU to YOUR standards. You had this histrionic fit about Trump endorsements and the Senate. I mere applied YOUR logic to DeSantis track record. If you dislike Trump endorsements you must loathe DeSantis 0% national endorsement success rate.

    You make up a crazy, unrealistic tests that ignore the facts. Trump was burdened by:
        • Non-MAGA House
        • Non-MAGA Senate
        • Non-MAGA Judiciary
        • Non-MAGA Deep State

    Guess what. I get to create equally unrealistic tests and apply them your preferred candidate.
    ___

    You keep dodging the question. How can a serious RINO DeSantis primary run against MAGA and Trump have a positive outcome?

    If DeSantis:
        ♦ Loses the primary, damaging MAGA in the process, his future is dim.
        ♦ Wins the primary, but loses the general by dispiriting the MAGA base it is even worse.
        ♦ Wins the presidency while having no national soft power, he will be knee capped by anti-MAGA forces some of which still exist in the GOP (Cornyn, McConnell, etc.).

    Trump has now spent several years accumulating "soft power" with national fundraisers, rallies, ~90% endorsement success rate, etc. DeSantis will have none of that. Just like Trump, DeSantis will not be able to rely on the MegaCorporation controlled GOP establishment.
    ____

    If you are not a #Bidenista plant:

    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?

    How is a strong MagaSantis in 2028 not obviously better than a weak RinoSantis effort in 2024?

    In an effort to be #NeverTrump, you are laying the groundwork to recreate every outside force & limitation that plagued Trump's 1st term. Why not support MAGA efforts to make things better?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?

    Take the White House back from the open borders, woke, interventionist crowd.

    The idea that the only person in the world that can do that is Trump is ridiculous on various levels but in any case, it should be open to debate. That’s why the Republican Party has held primaries, caucuses and state party conventions for more than a century now. If you try to prevent anyone from challenging Trump and people from expressing their preference for alternative candidates, you’re not only in the way of the objective I explained above, you’re trying to turn the GOP into an authoritarian personality cult.

    Btw, in his latest piece David Cole rips apart people that I still respect, like Tucker (in spite of his tiresome anti-China tirades and his excessive promotion of certain wacko figures) but, as usual, provides some good advice on how to avoid further fiascos:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/right-wacks-off-goes-blind/

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel

    The problem is that you are being in incredibly naive about human nature.

    Lets try this hypothetical:

    -- Mikel wins the $1.6B mega ball lottery
    -- Despite winning Mikel cannot collect
    -- Mikel's reward goes to a bribe taking dementia patient. Odds are with kick backs to lottery officials.

    What will Mikel do? Lie down and take it? I am guessing that you would fight.

    ==============
    Lets try this scenario grounded in proven fact:

    -- Trump won in 2020 (this is objectively factual)
    -- Trump was not allowed to collect what he deserves
    -- Trump's office was assigned to an illegitimate bribe taking dementia patient.

    What will Trump do? Lie down and take it?

    ==============
    Why would you think that there is any morality in depriving Trump of the chance to get back what was stolen (or the closest equivalent available).

    What makes you think that Trump will back down and submit to theft? Do you not see how unrealistic that is?

    Even if Trump stepped back, what makes you think core MAGA voters will support the RINO that aided & abetted immoral theft from Trump. At best, there would be apathy. At worst, MAGA Senate candidates would pop up as third party efforts against Establishment RINO endorsees.



    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?
     
    Take the White House back from the open borders, woke, interventionist crowd.

     

    Your stated course of action will guarantee more years of SJW rule, more migration, more SJW wokeness, and more NeoConDemocrat foreign interventions. If you actually blow up MAGA the result could be the return to Uniparty rule.

    You are your own worst enemy. I cannot help you with that bit of crazy.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

  585. @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Isn’t it true that in Donbass - most of the front line fighting in the first half was being done by the LPR and DPR militias - as has been the case the past 8 years? Isn’t that the reason Russia only sent over 160k in the first place? So to me it would seem that the Russian military proper were mostly in the other regions … correct?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Isn’t it true that in Donbass – most of the front line fighting in the first half was being done by the LPR and DPR militias – as has been the case the past 8 years? Isn’t that the reason Russia only sent over 160k in the first place? So to me it would seem that the Russian military proper were mostly in the other regions … correct?

    I have no first-hand knowledge about the beginning. Circumstantial evidence suggests that there was a significant Russian force in Donbass. For many years local freedom fighters only managed to maintain the front, but did not have the strength to advance. Within a short period after the RF joined the war virtually all territory of LPR and a big chunk of DPR were liberated. This suggests a considerable shift in the balance of military strength.

    During my visit to Lugansk this October I saw many Russian military vehicles and soldiers. Did not see any tanks or armored vehicles, but Lugansk is very far from the front line. I saw heavy Russian non-military equipment involved in repairs of the two bridges on the road from Lugansk to Stanitsa Luganskaya that were blown up by Ukies years ago. I was also told that Russians made a good road between Lugansk and Donetsk. This road was in a dismal state in Ukrainian period, when I was driven many times from Donetsk airport (where Lufthansa used to fly from Munich) to Lugansk and back. However, I did not see that road myself.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @AnonfromTN

    Thanks for the insight... Didn't know you were making trips so recently....

    Oh and below is the story I failed to link. This was back in 2017 and they were framing it as a Russian proxy war that started in 2015. The narrative has changed selectively. My biggest notation is them not giving the context of the dead nor the places the refugees went at the time. Deliberate of course.

    https://www.newsweek.com/did-ukraine-provide-rocket-engines-north-korea-its-nuclear-missile-program-658147

  586. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Russia invaded with 180,000 regular army forces plus Donbas militia plus Rusgvardia. Including naval personnel our former host estimated it was over 300,000. It’s interesting that when the war started, the pro-Russians were given high numbers in order to prove that Ukrainians didn’t stand a chance but now that the war hasn’t gone well for Russia some of you try to minimize the numbers.

    Russia has continually added forces including during the partial mobilization.


    it took huge territory and still holds most of it
     
    Including areas around Kiev, Chernihiv and Sumy Russia has retreated from about half of the territories it had taken.

    Replies: @Mikhail

    Russia invaded with 180,000 regular army forces plus Donbas militia plus Rusgvardia. Including naval personnel our former host estimated it was over 300,000. It’s interesting that when the war started, the pro-Russians were given high numbers in order to prove that Ukrainians didn’t stand a chance but now that the war hasn’t gone well for Russia some of you try to minimize the numbers.

    Russia has continually added forces including during the partial mobilization.

    it took huge territory and still holds most of it

    Including areas around Kiev, Chernihiv and Sumy Russia has retreated from about half of the territories it had taken.

    The Kiev regime side is the one with the considerably greater number of armed combatant fatalities and loss of military assets, with the West unable to give it the arms needed to stand a grater chance against Russia.

  587. @Philip Owen
    @AnonfromTN

    Almost all from stepping on mines.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Almost all from stepping on mines.

    Ukies scattered a lot of mines. Surprisingly, many on the territories very far from the front line. E.g., just yesterday a car with a married couple was blown up by Ukie anti-tank mine in Zhitomir region. Both died, leaving their kinds orphans:

    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/72317

    Also, a lot of Ukie soldiers get blown up stepping on Ukrainian mines. Problem is, often Ukies do not make maps of their own minefields. Even if they do, when the units rotate, the commanders of outgoing unit demand a bribe from the incoming unit for those maps. If they don’t get the bribe, they don’t hand over the maps, which leads to casualties.

  588. @Barbarossa
    @Mr. Hack

    I use a lot of lard, honestly. I just got a bunch to render up from my last batch of piggies. Leaf lard is great for pies and regular lard is great for cooking fat. Homemade lard is much better than store bought though as the latter has preservatives etc. Plus most crap in our food chain bio-accumulates at highest concentrations in fat so you want to make sure you know what went into your animal fat.

    We also use lots of olive oil, but I confess I haven't used much sunflower oil. I would expect it to taste great though!

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    We also use lots of olive oil, but I confess I haven’t used much sunflower oil. I would expect it to taste great though!

    Unrefined sunflower oil tastes great. My grandma used it a lot. I still fondly remember her cooking. However, refined has no taste whatsoever. Olive oil, even virgin cold press variety, is more generic, although it does have a taste (if it was produced in Greece, Italy, or Spain). If you like oils with a distinct taste, try sesame seed oil. But don’t get it in an American supermarket, find an Asian store and buy sesame seed oil made somewhere in Asia, not in the US.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN


    Unrefined sunflower oil tastes great.
     
    I can't grow olive trees in my climate so I harvested a good amount of sunflower seeds a few years ago in order to have homemade, cold-pressed oil but I never got around to actually pressing it. I read on the net that unrefined sunflower oil has a short shelf life before it gets rancid and has low heat resistance so you can't use it to fry. In the end my rabbits ate all the seeds so I turned the seeds into meat instead. If you think that its taste compares to olive, I'll give it a try next time. Sunflowers are surprisingly easy to cultivate and very productive, unlike the flax that I tried last summer. But you need some means of keeping birds away when the seeds are maturing, they can decimate the crop.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  589. @AnonfromTN
    @Barbarossa


    We also use lots of olive oil, but I confess I haven’t used much sunflower oil. I would expect it to taste great though!
     
    Unrefined sunflower oil tastes great. My grandma used it a lot. I still fondly remember her cooking. However, refined has no taste whatsoever. Olive oil, even virgin cold press variety, is more generic, although it does have a taste (if it was produced in Greece, Italy, or Spain). If you like oils with a distinct taste, try sesame seed oil. But don’t get it in an American supermarket, find an Asian store and buy sesame seed oil made somewhere in Asia, not in the US.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Unrefined sunflower oil tastes great.

    I can’t grow olive trees in my climate so I harvested a good amount of sunflower seeds a few years ago in order to have homemade, cold-pressed oil but I never got around to actually pressing it. I read on the net that unrefined sunflower oil has a short shelf life before it gets rancid and has low heat resistance so you can’t use it to fry. In the end my rabbits ate all the seeds so I turned the seeds into meat instead. If you think that its taste compares to olive, I’ll give it a try next time. Sunflowers are surprisingly easy to cultivate and very productive, unlike the flax that I tried last summer. But you need some means of keeping birds away when the seeds are maturing, they can decimate the crop.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel

    Yes, you don’t want to keep unrefined sunflower oil long. My grandma used to use it within a week or two. I think an easier way might be to find an ethnic store (a Slavic store, or possibly even an Asian store – bigger ones usually sell various ethnic foods, not only Asian) and get a bottle. You can start with a smaller one, like 200 ml, in case you don’t like it. It does have a very distinct taste, so some people love it while others hate. Say, if you like the taste of sunflower seeds, you are likely to love it, if you don’t – no point trying. I’d grow my own and press oil from them only if you find that you really like it and can use a significant amount. In a corked bottle with no air inside it would keep long, especially in a fridge.

    You don’t want to use it for frying, only for salads. My favorite is home-made sauerkraut (not the gunk sold in the US supermarkets) mixed with finely chopped onions (OK from a supermarket, but better from something like Sprouts) dressed with sunflower oil. Maybe that’s early childhood imprinting.

    You don’t need to grow your own olives. Greek and Spanish olive oil (extra virgin cold press) is pretty good, Italian tends to be lower quality, but some brands (e.g., Pompeian) are OK. Ever since I visited Greece I get Greek olive oil from an internet market in large tins (e.g., Mythology, 3 L tin). They ship their stuff via FedEx. BTW, Greek salt (Kalas or other brands) is also a lot better than that chemically pure NaCl that passes for salt in the US.

  590. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Apollo, like Amon-Ra, is also the god of the Sun, so there is no contradiction here. The Satan worship does not necessarily mean worshipping him in its most ugly form too - this is just Christian iconography anyway. And since Satan has an offer to anyone, it surely has an offer for old ladies too. Denying them possibility of being satanists, you deny them moral agency. Old people are not automatically innocent like babies, and babies are not automatically "little angels" in the way they are described on tombs (eg. "little boy enlarged the swarm of angels"): they are just innocent but that does not mean automatically "good" too. Personally, I find sunflower a pretty good symbol for Satan - glittery outside, but dark inside.

    As for Kharkiv, it is interesting that its deeply pagan coat of arms was established just in 1781. That would mean that crypto-paganism was well established in the Russian empire.

    However, in the cult of Jahwe, all polytheism is wrong, as it denies the First Commandment, the most important one. As it is, crypto-pagans probably fell under the Quranic category of "hypocrites". It is interesting that the hypocrites problem has become so pronounced in Quran, whereas Christianity apparently had encouraged them: this is why Christian feasts and symbols so often coincide with pagan ones: such is an answer of churchmen at least (gaining more souls is the utmost priority of the Church). During the Jesuit mission to China it became known as the acculturation problem: when Christianity stops being Christianity?
    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they "write" icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles). Well, at least Catholics are more straightforward in this respect.
    Considering such convolutions like 'writing icons' one has to ask why these pagans are so keen on being pagans, which leads to the obvious answer: because for them paganism is still their real religion.

    And no, in Poland we don't celebrate Ivan Kupala or have fortune telling around Christmas. We only do pisanki (painted eggs for the Eastern).

    As for Ukraine as a state, it is amazing why Ukrainians still use this runic Scandinavian Rurikids symbol, despite their entire history being spent away from sea, and the Rurikids history being more bygone than the Polish Piast history. Where is the Cossack banner of Archangel Michael...?! Moreover, Rurikids heritage is also claimed by Moscow, which naturally leads to conflict and war, similarly to the way Polish Vasa kings claims to be kings of Sweden led to the Polish-Swedish wars in the 17th century. If Ukraine is not Russia, as it claims, then it should avoid any Russia-connected symbols. What does tryzub actually bring Ukraine?!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Coconuts

    If Ukraine is not Russia, as it claims, then it should avoid any Russia-connected symbols. What does tryzub actually bring Ukraine?!

    I did some research on the tryzub a lot of years back and read something to the effect that the Riurikid princes of the north never actually used the tryzub within their crests or within any other attributes of their power. Certainly, within what we know of today as Ukraine the tryzub was used in much prominence with these attributes. So, to emphasize the continuity of the historical experience starting in the Rus period, Ukrainians have naturally been drawn to this symbol. So, the tryzub has never really been a “Russian-connected symbol”. It was Mikhailo Hrushevsky who actually suggested and was responsible for having the tryzub adopted as Ukraine’s national symbol for the modern period in 1917.

    • Disagree: Mikhail
  591. @Mikel
    @A123


    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?
     
    Take the White House back from the open borders, woke, interventionist crowd.

    The idea that the only person in the world that can do that is Trump is ridiculous on various levels but in any case, it should be open to debate. That's why the Republican Party has held primaries, caucuses and state party conventions for more than a century now. If you try to prevent anyone from challenging Trump and people from expressing their preference for alternative candidates, you're not only in the way of the objective I explained above, you're trying to turn the GOP into an authoritarian personality cult.

    Btw, in his latest piece David Cole rips apart people that I still respect, like Tucker (in spite of his tiresome anti-China tirades and his excessive promotion of certain wacko figures) but, as usual, provides some good advice on how to avoid further fiascos:

    https://www.takimag.com/article/right-wacks-off-goes-blind/

    Replies: @A123

    The problem is that you are being in incredibly naive about human nature.

    Lets try this hypothetical:

    — Mikel wins the $1.6B mega ball lottery
    — Despite winning Mikel cannot collect
    — Mikel’s reward goes to a bribe taking dementia patient. Odds are with kick backs to lottery officials.

    What will Mikel do? Lie down and take it? I am guessing that you would fight.

    ==============
    Lets try this scenario grounded in proven fact:

    — Trump won in 2020 (this is objectively factual)
    — Trump was not allowed to collect what he deserves
    — Trump’s office was assigned to an illegitimate bribe taking dementia patient.

    What will Trump do? Lie down and take it?

    ==============
    Why would you think that there is any morality in depriving Trump of the chance to get back what was stolen (or the closest equivalent available).

    What makes you think that Trump will back down and submit to theft? Do you not see how unrealistic that is?

    Even if Trump stepped back, what makes you think core MAGA voters will support the RINO that aided & abetted immoral theft from Trump. At best, there would be apathy. At worst, MAGA Senate candidates would pop up as third party efforts against Establishment RINO endorsees.

    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?

    Take the White House back from the open borders, woke, interventionist crowd.

    Your stated course of action will guarantee more years of SJW rule, more migration, more SJW wokeness, and more NeoConDemocrat foreign interventions. If you actually blow up MAGA the result could be the return to Uniparty rule.

    You are your own worst enemy. I cannot help you with that bit of crazy.

    PEACE 😇

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123

    Rand Paul was one of the many Republicans who wanted to continue investigating the election fraud accusations even after the state legislatures had dismissed Trump's lawyers' arguments and certified the results. He argued on TV that one shouldn't give too much importance to the court rules against fraud allegations, given the judiciary's history of staying away from electoral result issues. He was planning to contest Biden's nomination and demand further investigations the day that the low-IQ yahoos stormed Congress. He is still called an "election denier" because all of this. This is what he had to say the day of the Georgia runoff, before the results were known:



    “We’re recording this on the evening of the Herschel Walker election with Warnock,” Ryan said. “We’ll see what happens there. But my guess is more strings of defeat delivered to us clearly by Donald Trump is enough for our party to realize we've got to move on if we want to win.”

    Knowing he was talking about a man who has already announced his 2024 presidential campaign, Ryan continued:

    “I think he’s unfit for the job. I don't think he's going to get the nomination in my party. It’s crystal, crystal, crystal clear: We lose with Trump if we stick with Trump. If we dump Trump, we start winning elections.”
     
    There's just an avalanche of former Trump allies and even friends, like Oliver Stone, who have had enough of him. That is the "objectively factual" reality. If DeSantis beats him in the primaries they will all back him but you are right that a bunch of diehards will rather have Trump run as an independent than accepting his defeat at the primaries. Worse perhaps, right now a real RINO (not an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis) has probably more chances of winning the primaries than Trump.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

  592. @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN


    Unrefined sunflower oil tastes great.
     
    I can't grow olive trees in my climate so I harvested a good amount of sunflower seeds a few years ago in order to have homemade, cold-pressed oil but I never got around to actually pressing it. I read on the net that unrefined sunflower oil has a short shelf life before it gets rancid and has low heat resistance so you can't use it to fry. In the end my rabbits ate all the seeds so I turned the seeds into meat instead. If you think that its taste compares to olive, I'll give it a try next time. Sunflowers are surprisingly easy to cultivate and very productive, unlike the flax that I tried last summer. But you need some means of keeping birds away when the seeds are maturing, they can decimate the crop.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Yes, you don’t want to keep unrefined sunflower oil long. My grandma used to use it within a week or two. I think an easier way might be to find an ethnic store (a Slavic store, or possibly even an Asian store – bigger ones usually sell various ethnic foods, not only Asian) and get a bottle. You can start with a smaller one, like 200 ml, in case you don’t like it. It does have a very distinct taste, so some people love it while others hate. Say, if you like the taste of sunflower seeds, you are likely to love it, if you don’t – no point trying. I’d grow my own and press oil from them only if you find that you really like it and can use a significant amount. In a corked bottle with no air inside it would keep long, especially in a fridge.

    You don’t want to use it for frying, only for salads. My favorite is home-made sauerkraut (not the gunk sold in the US supermarkets) mixed with finely chopped onions (OK from a supermarket, but better from something like Sprouts) dressed with sunflower oil. Maybe that’s early childhood imprinting.

    You don’t need to grow your own olives. Greek and Spanish olive oil (extra virgin cold press) is pretty good, Italian tends to be lower quality, but some brands (e.g., Pompeian) are OK. Ever since I visited Greece I get Greek olive oil from an internet market in large tins (e.g., Mythology, 3 L tin). They ship their stuff via FedEx. BTW, Greek salt (Kalas or other brands) is also a lot better than that chemically pure NaCl that passes for salt in the US.

    • Thanks: Mikel
  593. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Coincidentally, I was having a discussion last night with a biologist friend of mine about the relative merits of olive oil vs sunflower oil. She insisted that when frying foods, sunflower oil was safer to use than olive oil because it has a higher smoke point when in starts to impart carcinogens into the food that's being fried. I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too, it has a wonderful nutty taste to it especially the unrefined variant. I still use olive oil too, and have settled on these two oils as preferable to all others.

    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61i1qsNZH+L._SX569_.jpg
    Great stuff if you can find it. Tastes great and is a good natural source of vitamin E.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

    Mr. Hack, you have put me in a quandary, here I am warming up to the idea of the sunflower as a symbol of Ukraine, talking myself up to it, and then, you remind me that it is a source of “seed oils,” which have entered into the jargon of health nuts and are even gaining cachet among nationalists, as being a toxic product of globohomo corporations.

    Now, I stress I am not a health nut, and I pride myself on being against fads, but I am left with the inescapable fact that lately I have been disgusted by the taste of deep-fried french fries, and begun to believe baked ones are superior in every way. I think baked win on taste, especially if you use seasonings.

    I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too

    Ah, now you have hit me again! A salad dressing derived from a nationalist symbol? Say it ain’t so! (actually, I cannot abide salad. That is stuff Mikel’s rabbits should be eating)

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird


    but I am left with the inescapable fact that lately I have been disgusted by the taste of deep-fried french fries, and begun to believe baked ones are superior in every way. I think baked win on taste, especially if you use seasonings.
     
    Not to sound like a lard salesman but potatoes are one thing that lard is perfect for. I like french fries chunky cut and baked with lard. I prefer doing some good steak seasoning or garlic, salt, and paprika on them while they bake. The lard really crisps them up and adds to the flavor.

    I'll disagree with you on salad though. A well done salad can be a great meal. If you are really a skeptic, try the one I did up for the crew at a jobsite a few months ago. Romaine lettuce, red onion, tomato, and broccoli, cubed up extra sharp chedder, along with hot and crispy chopped leftover chicken and french fries and topped with either a good Italian or creamy Ceasar dressing. It's pretty legit.

    Replies: @songbird

  594. Sher Singh says:
    @showmethereal
    @Yahya

    Sher Singh is exactly my point about these Internet forums. The fact that I know lots of Sikhs live in the”GTA” /and specifically Brampton and have a big temple there…. he must think I live there. I’ve been many times - but never lived a day in my life. But I could have run with it - because I know enough detail about life there to make it seem such. That’s my point. These discussions are a waste of time. I can even give street addresses. But I never lived there. And frankly it means Sher Singh might not either. My point is I couldn’t care less either.

    And I don’t know about the Saudi regime is like in Saudi Arabia since I never lived there. I also don’t go by what the MSM says. I know two people who lived there (one currently) and neither had anything negative to say. I don’t know all the circumstances regarding thag journalist who was killed in Turkey except that Biden and his hypocritical self removed MBS from facing any legal action. What I DO know is there is much more than meets the eye as that “journalists” uncle (Adnan Khashoggi) was one of the richest men in the world and one of the biggest covert arms dealers in the world. He was well loved and protected by the west. That journalists family were in very deep with many “connected” people all over the world and I’m sure his murder is much much more than meets the eye. But it’s not my problem to solve. I sure can point out the hypocrisy though. And that’s my point.

    But Are you denying there are tens of thousands of Uighur jihadists who fought in Afghanistan and Syria? Are you denying they were responsible for hundreds of attacks within China? Are you denying the fact millions of other Muslims live in China with no problems? I’m listing facts not diversions. Are you simply too prideful to admit you have been duped again by the western MSM?I told you on the last thread you can go freely and visit Xinjiang as a tourist unless you are an intelligence agent or work for western mainstream media. Plenty of Muslims do and even make videos about it. Go see the supposed oppression yourself. And make a vlog also. Also make sure you visit Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region too. Just don’t selectively edit like the BBC. If you feel I’m in the wrong then what’s the issue…? Do you think you will be disappeared? In contrast - You will find plenty of Halal food to eat.

    I see you also completely ignored the piece in the western MSM linking the Ukrainians with the North Korean nuclear program. I was going to point out how they messed up the narrative now in 2022 because in that 2017 - in trying to also implicate Russia they said Russia launched a proxy war in Donbass in 2015. That was their scheme then… completely ignoring the coup orchestrated by the US and the shelling done by Ukraine. But now in 2022 the whole narrative is changed even from that. But again it seems you choose to listen to western MSM if it fits what you think. Doesn’t make it factual at all and certainly not the whole truth.

    A Saudi Egyptian who studies Orwell…. Interesting…. I could create a profile on what I think your life story is… but I won’t. I rather stick to the news.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Das is Resident of Anandpur Sahib.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anandpur_Sahib

    The Arab with his limitless intellect,
    Procures the concubine the Singh handles with stamina.

    Have read most of the Liberal philosophical texts ie Mills, Bentham, Wolstonecraft, Rosseau w/e
    When you apply a zero-sum tribal lens to it, invariably it turns into:

    Allow Anglo + W Euros unfettered access to Zar Zan Zameen so they can ‘improve’ you.
    Those who fall for it are stupid – I become a Liberal I get to be unarmed, why do that??

    https://akarlin.com/2009/09/struggle-europe-mankind/

    [MORE]

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Cj0scIqs242/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  595. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird


    Bromance pegged you as not being in China
     
    No I didn't. I gave him a Turing test on Chinese literacy, identify a passage from calligraphy-- and he failed, he/it can't even read off of the characters and google the passage.

    https://i.postimg.cc/DybxsJXy/ea852f1db8fdd385.jpg

    And ChatGPT cannot do this, reading Chinese calligraphy is a working problem in computer vision.

    This is what I told Professor from TN-- "Personal anecdotes told by Joe/Ivan/Chang over the internet" cannot be falsified.

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch! -- Wolfgang Pauli

    "Joe/Ivan/Chang behind alias over the internet can not read Chinese" can be falsified by answering the challenge I gave.

    If he/it can not read Chinese, but can find someone looking over his shoulders who can, that statement above is still falsified, but evidently that's not even the case.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)

    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it. That is, they may receive something of an education in it, but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)
    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it.
     
    It’s traditional hieroglyph writing. It is used in Taiwan and Hong Kong, whereas mainland China adopted simplified writing (fewer elements in most hieroglyphs). So, mainlanders are unlikely to be literate in it, except highly educated ones, whereas residents of Taiwan and Hong Kong should be able to read it.

    As writing with hieroglyphs is mindbogglingly complex, Chinese literacy comes in grades: you need to know maybe 2,000 hieroglyphs to read a newspaper, whereas an educated person knows ~10,000 hieroglyphs.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    It's Classical Chinese poetry, or kanshi in Japanese, written in traditional characters.

    I translated it into German in the previous thread to make use of the compound word feature shared with Chinese (Bronzepfauenturm).


    but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.
     
    I gave a similar test to John Derbyshire and he reply correctly within hours.

    大丈夫处世,不能立功建业,不几与草木同腐乎!

    I challenge you Mr. Derbyshire, to cite the source of this quote from a well known literary reference.

     


    San Guo, ch. 47, 1st page

     

    https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/june-diary-11-items-packers-four-americas-lying-flat-in-china-notice-anything-about-1967-miss-america-finalists-etc/#comment-4755119

    Replies: @songbird

  596. @songbird
    @Dmitry

    Was going to suggest to AP that if I were looking for a symbol for Ukrainians, I would look to archaeology. Perhaps, something from the Scythians, but then I got to thinking about how maybe things taken from tombs might be considered dead, and how too much detail might be seen as an artifice. A thing made for a king, might not be for the common people.

    What can equal the appeal of a living thing grown from the soil? What inanimate object can parallel the living spirit of a nation? What is less material and commercial than something grown from a seed? Something a child can make or pick? (Here, the only thing that comes to mind perhaps is a musical instrument - for example, the harp for Ireland)

    But, of course, there are limitations to it. In geologic time, the nations are new. We must allow for the Ice Age scouring the land of all living things, and for them needing to be imported, whether from the south or from across the Atlantic. Not every place has its own rain forest and high biodiversity. Not every place was as ecologically separate as Australia.

    It seems to be that the only thing for most countries is to make do with imports, or else resort to genetic engineering to make a unique symbol, perhaps, to de-extinct a particularly charismatic megafauna - and some might see that as crossing a boundary.

    Replies: @LatW

    What is less material and commercial than something grown from a seed? Something a child can make or pick? (Here, the only thing that comes to mind perhaps is a musical instrument – for example, the harp for Ireland)

    The Ukrainians have that. They have bandura – a folk string instrument that is quite prominently used, when I first encountered it, it seemed quite distinct (definitely didn’t seem “northern”). Zither is quite common in Europe including in other EE nations, but this instrument is like a giant, round zither held like a guitar.

    Another very distinct instrument is the Hutsul trembita (an alpine horn) – it has a very particular, an almost “exotic” (as in “unusual”) sound that one immediately associates with Western Ukraine and the Carpathian mountains. I remember many years ago listening to a Ukrainian metal band and they used this instrument in one of their intros – it struck me as something very original and distinct and created an amazing atmosphere.

    The trembita is often used in contemporary Ukrainian pop songs as well. I’d say, trembita is already distinct within the Ukrainian context, since it comes from one region, but they have adopted it as the “national sound”.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW


    bandura... round zither held like a guitar
     
    Actually, held like a harp.
  597. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)

    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it. That is, they may receive something of an education in it, but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)
    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it.

    It’s traditional hieroglyph writing. It is used in Taiwan and Hong Kong, whereas mainland China adopted simplified writing (fewer elements in most hieroglyphs). So, mainlanders are unlikely to be literate in it, except highly educated ones, whereas residents of Taiwan and Hong Kong should be able to read it.

    As writing with hieroglyphs is mindbogglingly complex, Chinese literacy comes in grades: you need to know maybe 2,000 hieroglyphs to read a newspaper, whereas an educated person knows ~10,000 hieroglyphs.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    Vasily Chuikov who led the Soviet advisory group to ROC was fluent in Chinese.

    He was also said to have advocated using nukes against PRC during the Sino-Soviet Conflict. I only read this from a Chinese source so don't know the full veracity.


    It’s traditional hieroglyph writing.
     
    The Mongolian/Manchu script is originally derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs. Chinese is logographic and used for centuries in Japan and formerly Korea.

    That's why its China Japan and Korea -- Bromance of Three Kingdoms,

    Not,

    China and Russia -- an opportunistic quasi-alliance based on limited shared culture. I wouldn't be able to keep up with a discussion about the Bible for example.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  598. @A123
    @Mikel

    The problem is that you are being in incredibly naive about human nature.

    Lets try this hypothetical:

    -- Mikel wins the $1.6B mega ball lottery
    -- Despite winning Mikel cannot collect
    -- Mikel's reward goes to a bribe taking dementia patient. Odds are with kick backs to lottery officials.

    What will Mikel do? Lie down and take it? I am guessing that you would fight.

    ==============
    Lets try this scenario grounded in proven fact:

    -- Trump won in 2020 (this is objectively factual)
    -- Trump was not allowed to collect what he deserves
    -- Trump's office was assigned to an illegitimate bribe taking dementia patient.

    What will Trump do? Lie down and take it?

    ==============
    Why would you think that there is any morality in depriving Trump of the chance to get back what was stolen (or the closest equivalent available).

    What makes you think that Trump will back down and submit to theft? Do you not see how unrealistic that is?

    Even if Trump stepped back, what makes you think core MAGA voters will support the RINO that aided & abetted immoral theft from Trump. At best, there would be apathy. At worst, MAGA Senate candidates would pop up as third party efforts against Establishment RINO endorsees.



    Explain the favourable outcome that you are trying to obtain?
     
    Take the White House back from the open borders, woke, interventionist crowd.

     

    Your stated course of action will guarantee more years of SJW rule, more migration, more SJW wokeness, and more NeoConDemocrat foreign interventions. If you actually blow up MAGA the result could be the return to Uniparty rule.

    You are your own worst enemy. I cannot help you with that bit of crazy.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mikel

    Rand Paul was one of the many Republicans who wanted to continue investigating the election fraud accusations even after the state legislatures had dismissed Trump’s lawyers’ arguments and certified the results. He argued on TV that one shouldn’t give too much importance to the court rules against fraud allegations, given the judiciary’s history of staying away from electoral result issues. He was planning to contest Biden’s nomination and demand further investigations the day that the low-IQ yahoos stormed Congress. He is still called an “election denier” because all of this. This is what he had to say the day of the Georgia runoff, before the results were known:

    “We’re recording this on the evening of the Herschel Walker election with Warnock,” Ryan said. “We’ll see what happens there. But my guess is more strings of defeat delivered to us clearly by Donald Trump is enough for our party to realize we’ve got to move on if we want to win.”

    Knowing he was talking about a man who has already announced his 2024 presidential campaign, Ryan continued:

    “I think he’s unfit for the job. I don’t think he’s going to get the nomination in my party. It’s crystal, crystal, crystal clear: We lose with Trump if we stick with Trump. If we dump Trump, we start winning elections.”

    There’s just an avalanche of former Trump allies and even friends, like Oliver Stone, who have had enough of him. That is the “objectively factual” reality. If DeSantis beats him in the primaries they will all back him but you are right that a bunch of diehards will rather have Trump run as an independent than accepting his defeat at the primaries. Worse perhaps, right now a real RINO (not an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis) has probably more chances of winning the primaries than Trump.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel


    Herschel Walker versus Warnock
     
    The result had little to do with Trump. (1)

    • Warnock outspent Walker by 3:1, possibly more.
    • Georgia rules are about balloting (not voting)
    • Courts allowed illegal balloting the weekend after Thanksgiving
    • Kemp is a known open borders, high migration, woke, GOP(e) weasel

    Throwing shade at Trump for something beyond his control is yet another proof that you are an anti-factual #NeverTrump extremist.

     

    Again, there is a simple 100% guaranteed solution to your issue. Help Trump become President in 2024. Once he is "termed out" everything you claim you want is right there.

    Your current path, blowing up MAGA, guarantees Harris will win. How does that help what you claim is your cause? It clearly makes them worse in 2024. And, generates the possibility for Trump 2028.

    -- If I am right -- Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    -- If you are right -- Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.

    The only possible explanations for your stated course:

    • You do not grasp the certainty of failure.
    • You are a #Bidenista. You actively want all MAGA candidates to fail.

    I keep hoping it is the former and you will become more realistic. Alas, I fear it is the latter.

    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump? Or, will you continue to undermine the MAGA movement?

     
    https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--ciLY_RKs--/t_Preview/b_rgb:191919,c_lpad,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_1200/v1620477084/production/designs/21689328_0.jpg
     

    Liz Cheney wants your vote (shudder).

    PEACE 😇
    ________

    (1) https://thefederalist.com/2022/12/07/3-unsexy-reasons-warnock-beat-walker-in-the-georgia-runoff/

    Replies: @Mikel, @Mikel

    , @Beckow
    @Mikel

    .


    ..an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis
     
    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West. Trump folded from the beginning, as he has in other areas - the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: "we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.." (?)

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future? DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that's worth something.

    On the other hand, who if not DeSantis would be a perfect 'leader' of a Phase II corona madness panic? They could use his credibility to prick the fools twice a day with just about anything...

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @A123, @LatW

  599. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Apollo, like Amon-Ra, is also the god of the Sun, so there is no contradiction here. The Satan worship does not necessarily mean worshipping him in its most ugly form too - this is just Christian iconography anyway. And since Satan has an offer to anyone, it surely has an offer for old ladies too. Denying them possibility of being satanists, you deny them moral agency. Old people are not automatically innocent like babies, and babies are not automatically "little angels" in the way they are described on tombs (eg. "little boy enlarged the swarm of angels"): they are just innocent but that does not mean automatically "good" too. Personally, I find sunflower a pretty good symbol for Satan - glittery outside, but dark inside.

    As for Kharkiv, it is interesting that its deeply pagan coat of arms was established just in 1781. That would mean that crypto-paganism was well established in the Russian empire.

    However, in the cult of Jahwe, all polytheism is wrong, as it denies the First Commandment, the most important one. As it is, crypto-pagans probably fell under the Quranic category of "hypocrites". It is interesting that the hypocrites problem has become so pronounced in Quran, whereas Christianity apparently had encouraged them: this is why Christian feasts and symbols so often coincide with pagan ones: such is an answer of churchmen at least (gaining more souls is the utmost priority of the Church). During the Jesuit mission to China it became known as the acculturation problem: when Christianity stops being Christianity?
    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they "write" icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles). Well, at least Catholics are more straightforward in this respect.
    Considering such convolutions like 'writing icons' one has to ask why these pagans are so keen on being pagans, which leads to the obvious answer: because for them paganism is still their real religion.

    And no, in Poland we don't celebrate Ivan Kupala or have fortune telling around Christmas. We only do pisanki (painted eggs for the Eastern).

    As for Ukraine as a state, it is amazing why Ukrainians still use this runic Scandinavian Rurikids symbol, despite their entire history being spent away from sea, and the Rurikids history being more bygone than the Polish Piast history. Where is the Cossack banner of Archangel Michael...?! Moreover, Rurikids heritage is also claimed by Moscow, which naturally leads to conflict and war, similarly to the way Polish Vasa kings claims to be kings of Sweden led to the Polish-Swedish wars in the 17th century. If Ukraine is not Russia, as it claims, then it should avoid any Russia-connected symbols. What does tryzub actually bring Ukraine?!

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Coconuts

    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they “write” icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles).

    They paint icons because a core Christian belief is that God became a man and had a human face and body, a human mother etc. Clearly pictures could be drawn of them.

    If you don’t think God had a human face someone else could draw it is more like being Jewish.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed. On surface, this need for painting gods could be harmless if it served curiosity and need of knowledge only. Unfortunately, images are created - not least icons - which are later worshipped (because how can you not worship God, ha?). Step by step, it leads to idolatry. I agree.

    But the point is that according to the official description of the job (ikonopisiec) one writes icons, not paints them. Typical kabbalistic-gnostic manipulation of names: not a thing, but a name of it is important.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings - since icons disclose God, don't they? - and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @A123, @AP, @AnonfromTN

  600. @LatW
    @songbird


    What is less material and commercial than something grown from a seed? Something a child can make or pick? (Here, the only thing that comes to mind perhaps is a musical instrument – for example, the harp for Ireland)
     
    The Ukrainians have that. They have bandura - a folk string instrument that is quite prominently used, when I first encountered it, it seemed quite distinct (definitely didn't seem "northern"). Zither is quite common in Europe including in other EE nations, but this instrument is like a giant, round zither held like a guitar.

    Another very distinct instrument is the Hutsul trembita (an alpine horn) - it has a very particular, an almost "exotic" (as in "unusual") sound that one immediately associates with Western Ukraine and the Carpathian mountains. I remember many years ago listening to a Ukrainian metal band and they used this instrument in one of their intros - it struck me as something very original and distinct and created an amazing atmosphere.

    The trembita is often used in contemporary Ukrainian pop songs as well. I'd say, trembita is already distinct within the Ukrainian context, since it comes from one region, but they have adopted it as the "national sound".

    Replies: @LatW

    bandura… round zither held like a guitar

    Actually, held like a harp.

  601. @AP
    @Coconuts

    Ok. There is indeed a strong link between extremely strong religiosity found in people whose daily lives are focused primarily on their faith (Amish, Hasidic Jews, the trad catholic subculture) and large families. But not in the case of being merely devout versus being secular/agnostic/atheist. In fact it may work against it. Italy for example is the most religious country in Western Europe. 40% of Italians attend church at least once monthly:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/05/29/being-christian-in-western-europe/

    Yet Italy has one of the lowest TFRs.

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.

    Within Ukraine, nearly 80% of Galicians attend church at least monthly (49% do so weekly).

    https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021_Religiya.pdf

    Yet Galician TFR is barely better than Italy’s, and only good relative to eastern Ukraine. For similar reasons as in Italy. Church-going Galician girls won’t have kids without husbands, men are often working in Poland for 6 months a year, etc.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Ok. There is indeed a strong link between extremely strong religiosity found in people whose daily lives are focused primarily on their faith (Amish, Hasidic Jews, the trad catholic subculture) and large families. But not in the case of being merely devout versus being secular/agnostic/atheist.

    I think they are really looking at people with beliefs that are still closer to those of a couple of generations ago. Something else Dr. Dutton has mentioned (I don’t know how strong the data is on this) is that people with far-right beliefs have tended to have higher levels of fertility than average, below the highly religious but above people with more mainstream political beliefs. This is another case where the beliefs and worldview would have been closer to the mainstream 70-80 years ago but now only dedicated minorities maintain them.

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.

    I can imagine this is an explanation, likewise with the situation in Galicia. Its one reason it can be hard to identify the real underlying causes behind low fertility levels.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Coconuts



    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.
     
    I can imagine this is an explanation, likewise with the situation in Galicia. Its one reason it can be hard to identify the real underlying causes behind low fertility levels.
     
    The big three categories seem to be:

    -1- Family Formation
    -2- Child Affordability
    -3- Hope for the Future

    We can see the damage to family formation created by EU anti-Christian dogma. Marriage diminished as an institution. And, intra-EU Schengen disproportionately relocated young adults that should be forming families.

    The economic pressure of the CCP laboratory WUHAN-19 virus created economic turmoil. Now we are facing the European WEF recession that is contaminating the entire globe, sort of like WUHAN-19.

    Massive immigration and wage suppression is crushing hopes among Judeo-Christians outside of Eastern Europe. Why would Western European natives have kids at all? The non-natives in "Core Europe" see the future death of Christianity and are breeding like crazy. Why does this not focus attention on the obvious problem grounded in the lack of Judeo-Christian faith?

    Get rid of the EU + Fix European migration = More European Christian children

    It really is that easy.

    PEACE 😇
  602. @Mikel
    @A123

    Rand Paul was one of the many Republicans who wanted to continue investigating the election fraud accusations even after the state legislatures had dismissed Trump's lawyers' arguments and certified the results. He argued on TV that one shouldn't give too much importance to the court rules against fraud allegations, given the judiciary's history of staying away from electoral result issues. He was planning to contest Biden's nomination and demand further investigations the day that the low-IQ yahoos stormed Congress. He is still called an "election denier" because all of this. This is what he had to say the day of the Georgia runoff, before the results were known:



    “We’re recording this on the evening of the Herschel Walker election with Warnock,” Ryan said. “We’ll see what happens there. But my guess is more strings of defeat delivered to us clearly by Donald Trump is enough for our party to realize we've got to move on if we want to win.”

    Knowing he was talking about a man who has already announced his 2024 presidential campaign, Ryan continued:

    “I think he’s unfit for the job. I don't think he's going to get the nomination in my party. It’s crystal, crystal, crystal clear: We lose with Trump if we stick with Trump. If we dump Trump, we start winning elections.”
     
    There's just an avalanche of former Trump allies and even friends, like Oliver Stone, who have had enough of him. That is the "objectively factual" reality. If DeSantis beats him in the primaries they will all back him but you are right that a bunch of diehards will rather have Trump run as an independent than accepting his defeat at the primaries. Worse perhaps, right now a real RINO (not an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis) has probably more chances of winning the primaries than Trump.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    Herschel Walker versus Warnock

    The result had little to do with Trump. (1)

    • Warnock outspent Walker by 3:1, possibly more.
    • Georgia rules are about balloting (not voting)
    • Courts allowed illegal balloting the weekend after Thanksgiving
    • Kemp is a known open borders, high migration, woke, GOP(e) weasel

    Throwing shade at Trump for something beyond his control is yet another proof that you are an anti-factual #NeverTrump extremist.

    Again, there is a simple 100% guaranteed solution to your issue. Help Trump become President in 2024. Once he is “termed out” everything you claim you want is right there.

    Your current path, blowing up MAGA, guarantees Harris will win. How does that help what you claim is your cause? It clearly makes them worse in 2024. And, generates the possibility for Trump 2028.

    — If I am right — Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    — If you are right — Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.

    The only possible explanations for your stated course:

    • You do not grasp the certainty of failure.
    • You are a #Bidenista. You actively want all MAGA candidates to fail.

    I keep hoping it is the former and you will become more realistic. Alas, I fear it is the latter.

    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump? Or, will you continue to undermine the MAGA movement?

      

    Liz Cheney wants your vote (shudder).

    PEACE 😇
    ________

    (1) https://thefederalist.com/2022/12/07/3-unsexy-reasons-warnock-beat-walker-in-the-georgia-runoff/

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @A123


    — If I am right — Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    — If you are right — Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.
     
    That's the most Trumpian statement I have read in a long time (excluding Trump's own statements, obviously). It competes with this one by the master himself before the midterm results were in:

    Well, I think if they win, I should get all the credit. If they lose, I should not be blamed at all.
     
    Congratulations.



    https://twitter.com/mattwilstein/status/1590105710440112128?s=20&t=UYkSncDqr9Zjc69_HFHV9Q

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Mikel
    @A123


    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump?
     
    Yes. If that happens and there is no other non-RINO candidate, I will have to support Trump, knowing that the chances of winning are close to zero. But I would expect Rand Paul to run again, in which case I would support him over Trump. He is weak on immigration but much better than Trump on foreign policy and very likely much more competent at getting things done.

    If both Trump and DeSantis run and DeSantis wins the primaries, will you support him?

    Replies: @A123

  603. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Such a sophisticated hypocrisy is to be found inside Orthodox Church too: they claim that they “write” icons so they can pretend that they do not create images of gods (writing is not painting, writing is allowed to write Bibles).
     
    They paint icons because a core Christian belief is that God became a man and had a human face and body, a human mother etc. Clearly pictures could be drawn of them.

    If you don't think God had a human face someone else could draw it is more like being Jewish.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed. On surface, this need for painting gods could be harmless if it served curiosity and need of knowledge only. Unfortunately, images are created – not least icons – which are later worshipped (because how can you not worship God, ha?). Step by step, it leads to idolatry. I agree.

    But the point is that according to the official description of the job (ikonopisiec) one writes icons, not paints them. Typical kabbalistic-gnostic manipulation of names: not a thing, but a name of it is important.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings – since icons disclose God, don’t they? – and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed.
     
    If you are Jewish. If you are Christian, the face of Jesus was the face of God. Large numbers of people saw this face and saw the face and body of the woman who gave birth to him.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings – since icons disclose God, don’t they? – and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.
     
    By not venerating the image of the Lord and his mother, don't you deny that he actually became incarnate as a man and had a physical body and face which was visible to everyone, and that he was worthy of worship in his incarnate form? That seems to be heresy.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @showmethereal

    , @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective

    While there are problems with certain depictions of God, the best course of action is to not get senselessly worked up. By definition

    • Man is flawed.
    • Any creation of man is also flawed.
    • Therefore mortal man cannot create an accurate depiction of God.

    No one needs an icon. However, if an icon or symbol of God strengthens your faith.... (Shrug)

    Selling mandatory icons for spiritual advancement... That is quite obviously SIN. Or, possibly Scientology. Of course, Scientology obviously SIN.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://media1.tenor.com/images/0e9667733c09719020aa1ca888898a48/tenor.gif

    , @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Unfortunately, images are created – not least icons – which are later worshipped
     
    False. You are repeating iconoclastic heresy that had been inspired by Islam.

    Icons themselves are not worshipped, rather they are used for the purpose of better worshipping and understanding God. This is analogous to the use of glasses or binoculars. When you use these things you do not look at them, rather you look at something else through them or by using them. Similarly, veneration of icons is a process of worshipping God.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    one writes icons, not paints them.
     
    It depends on the language. Say, in Russian the same verb is used for writing and painting pictures (писать), whereas in English and many other European languages two different words are used.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  604. @Coconuts
    @AP


    Ok. There is indeed a strong link between extremely strong religiosity found in people whose daily lives are focused primarily on their faith (Amish, Hasidic Jews, the trad catholic subculture) and large families. But not in the case of being merely devout versus being secular/agnostic/atheist.
     
    I think they are really looking at people with beliefs that are still closer to those of a couple of generations ago. Something else Dr. Dutton has mentioned (I don't know how strong the data is on this) is that people with far-right beliefs have tended to have higher levels of fertility than average, below the highly religious but above people with more mainstream political beliefs. This is another case where the beliefs and worldview would have been closer to the mainstream 70-80 years ago but now only dedicated minorities maintain them.

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.
     
    I can imagine this is an explanation, likewise with the situation in Galicia. Its one reason it can be hard to identify the real underlying causes behind low fertility levels.

    Replies: @A123

    An explanation is that Italians won’t have kids unless they get married, but due to economics in that country it is less convenient to do so, therefore Italians won’t have kids.

    I can imagine this is an explanation, likewise with the situation in Galicia. Its one reason it can be hard to identify the real underlying causes behind low fertility levels.

    The big three categories seem to be:

    -1- Family Formation
    -2- Child Affordability
    -3- Hope for the Future

    We can see the damage to family formation created by EU anti-Christian dogma. Marriage diminished as an institution. And, intra-EU Schengen disproportionately relocated young adults that should be forming families.

    The economic pressure of the CCP laboratory WUHAN-19 virus created economic turmoil. Now we are facing the European WEF recession that is contaminating the entire globe, sort of like WUHAN-19.

    Massive immigration and wage suppression is crushing hopes among Judeo-Christians outside of Eastern Europe. Why would Western European natives have kids at all? The non-natives in “Core Europe” see the future death of Christianity and are breeding like crazy. Why does this not focus attention on the obvious problem grounded in the lack of Judeo-Christian faith?

    Get rid of the EU + Fix European migration = More European Christian children

    It really is that easy.

    PEACE 😇

  605. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.
     
    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.

    Similarly, some of the more extreme feminist beliefs, that motherhood is a patriarchal imposition and a means of controlling women would intuitively seem to have a negative impact on family formation. Same with the LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation. The belief that humans are going to provoke a climate disaster and destroy the world is again probably similar.

    These may not be the cause of lower fertility, they may be a reflection of some other factor, but if beliefs like them seem to spread or strengthen in a society, predicting that fertility decline will follow doesn't seem unreasonable.

    The number of pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured. I find the argument that emergence of these beliefs is due to a reductio of liberalism, where its principles are being taken to their logical conclusions quite plausible though.

    It’s a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.
     
    This may have been partly what motivated it, there was a kind of moral panic about teenage mothers living on benefits around that time. Concern for social mobility and lowering levels of crime do not seem to have influenced government policy on other issues (say, single parent families or immigration policies), but a lack of coordination like this is not that uncommon.

    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.

    Isn’t it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.
     
    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world, whether the fertility there will continuously decline in the same way as appears to be happening in Europe and East Asia, but potentially some Latin American countries might also follow a different path.

    Replies: @AP, @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    Unherd had another interesting article about Houellebecq today:

    https://unherd.com/2022/12/michel-houellebecqs-sexual-apocalypse/

    What I mentioned here might have reflected a more general ‘spirit of the times’:

    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.

    Near the end of his novel Serotonin the narrator says this:

    [MORE]

    ‘I could have made a woman happy. Well, two; I have said which ones. Everything was clear, extremely clear from the beginning, but we didn’t realise. Did we yield to the illusion of individual freedom, of an open life, of infinite possibilities? It’s possible, those ideas were part of the spirit of the age; we didn’t formalise them, we didn’t have the taste to do that; we merely conformed and allowed ourselves to be destroyed by them; and then, for a very long time, to suffer as a result.’

    Houellebecq putting an optimistic spin on things again.

    Houellebecq sometimes reminds me of Maurras, who wrote an anti-romantic book about the notorious love affair between two of the greatest French romantic novelists, George Sand and Alfred de Musset, where he writes things like this:

    ‘One believed only in love and the other entrusted herself wholly to the harsh beauties of pride. So they scorned the living mechanisms by which the traditions of the human race, very evident among all civilised peoples, tempered pride and chained love. They dismantled every restraint. They suffered one after the other those natural necessities which torment everyone who returns to our primitive elements and discovered to what point the vengeance of nature is more cruel and malicious than that of society.’

  606. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed. On surface, this need for painting gods could be harmless if it served curiosity and need of knowledge only. Unfortunately, images are created - not least icons - which are later worshipped (because how can you not worship God, ha?). Step by step, it leads to idolatry. I agree.

    But the point is that according to the official description of the job (ikonopisiec) one writes icons, not paints them. Typical kabbalistic-gnostic manipulation of names: not a thing, but a name of it is important.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings - since icons disclose God, don't they? - and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @A123, @AP, @AnonfromTN

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed.

    If you are Jewish. If you are Christian, the face of Jesus was the face of God. Large numbers of people saw this face and saw the face and body of the woman who gave birth to him.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings – since icons disclose God, don’t they? – and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    By not venerating the image of the Lord and his mother, don’t you deny that he actually became incarnate as a man and had a physical body and face which was visible to everyone, and that he was worthy of worship in his incarnate form? That seems to be heresy.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Well, no, because it leads to contradicting the negative Commandments 2, 3. Plus, there is no positive commandment "you shall worship my incarnate form". Moreover, incarnate form disappeared long time ago - an image of incarnate form is an image, not an incarnate form itself. In a way, it is meaningless, because since the entire world is the creation of God, in this way we should worship Nature and every tree too. It would lead to practical polytheism under the cover of official monotheism of the "All is One" kind.

    Upon the simple fact that Mary was a mother of Christ, the entire theology was built on her alleged perfectness (a claim totally incompatible with the rest of the story of the Davidic line plagued by sin), which in the end put Mary higher than God - since apparently God is unable to deny Mary anything (so is the claim), He is not really a sovereign entity anymore.

    Unlike the cult of Jesus and God the Father, the cult of Mary is very localized - it is always the Mary of Lourdes, or Mary of Fatima, or Mary of Jasna Góra ("Panna Jasnogórska/The Virgin of Jasna Góra"): this is a way a pagan cult of Aphrodite and Artemis was structured, eg. Aphrodite of Eryx.
    Three female deities were said to be avatars of the Great Mother in antiquity: Aphrodite, Artemis, and Demeter. You can notice these three archetypes in the form of Mary too: a mother, a virgin, and a lover (as Mary Magdalene). Interestingly, the Great Mother was the deity higher than other gods - likewise Mary whom God cannot deny anything, and who has more churches dedicated to herself than her Son the God or all other saints together! I mean, for a neutral observer, Christianity is the cult of Jesus and Mary, structurally similar to Isis and Osiris/Horus cult.
    The Mary symbolism is full of old pagan symbolism too; for example, lily, allegedly the symbol of her innocence, was a symbol of Lilith, the first wife of Adam, not innocent at all since God banned her to the desert!
    Her popular titulature, "Our Lady", is the direct translation of the title Baalat Gebal/Our Lady, goddess of Byblos. Interestingly, the origins of the Christian cult of Mary seem to have been in Phoenicia too, this time however in the city of Tyre, that great friend of Israel since the reign of Salomon.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @showmethereal
    @Coconuts

    That practice didn't come until much later... When paganism was mixed in. "Another Polish" is correct... Icons indeed lead to idolatry. "Blessed are those who never saw me but will believe".... no need for icons...

  607. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed. On surface, this need for painting gods could be harmless if it served curiosity and need of knowledge only. Unfortunately, images are created - not least icons - which are later worshipped (because how can you not worship God, ha?). Step by step, it leads to idolatry. I agree.

    But the point is that according to the official description of the job (ikonopisiec) one writes icons, not paints them. Typical kabbalistic-gnostic manipulation of names: not a thing, but a name of it is important.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings - since icons disclose God, don't they? - and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @A123, @AP, @AnonfromTN

    While there are problems with certain depictions of God, the best course of action is to not get senselessly worked up. By definition

    • Man is flawed.
    • Any creation of man is also flawed.
    • Therefore mortal man cannot create an accurate depiction of God.

    No one needs an icon. However, if an icon or symbol of God strengthens your faith…. (Shrug)

    Selling mandatory icons for spiritual advancement… That is quite obviously SIN. Or, possibly Scientology. Of course, Scientology obviously SIN.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

     

  608. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed.
     
    If you are Jewish. If you are Christian, the face of Jesus was the face of God. Large numbers of people saw this face and saw the face and body of the woman who gave birth to him.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings – since icons disclose God, don’t they? – and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.
     
    By not venerating the image of the Lord and his mother, don't you deny that he actually became incarnate as a man and had a physical body and face which was visible to everyone, and that he was worthy of worship in his incarnate form? That seems to be heresy.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @showmethereal

    Well, no, because it leads to contradicting the negative Commandments 2, 3. Plus, there is no positive commandment “you shall worship my incarnate form”. Moreover, incarnate form disappeared long time ago – an image of incarnate form is an image, not an incarnate form itself. In a way, it is meaningless, because since the entire world is the creation of God, in this way we should worship Nature and every tree too. It would lead to practical polytheism under the cover of official monotheism of the “All is One” kind.

    Upon the simple fact that Mary was a mother of Christ, the entire theology was built on her alleged perfectness (a claim totally incompatible with the rest of the story of the Davidic line plagued by sin), which in the end put Mary higher than God – since apparently God is unable to deny Mary anything (so is the claim), He is not really a sovereign entity anymore.

    Unlike the cult of Jesus and God the Father, the cult of Mary is very localized – it is always the Mary of Lourdes, or Mary of Fatima, or Mary of Jasna Góra (“Panna Jasnogórska/The Virgin of Jasna Góra”): this is a way a pagan cult of Aphrodite and Artemis was structured, eg. Aphrodite of Eryx.
    Three female deities were said to be avatars of the Great Mother in antiquity: Aphrodite, Artemis, and Demeter. You can notice these three archetypes in the form of Mary too: a mother, a virgin, and a lover (as Mary Magdalene). Interestingly, the Great Mother was the deity higher than other gods – likewise Mary whom God cannot deny anything, and who has more churches dedicated to herself than her Son the God or all other saints together! I mean, for a neutral observer, Christianity is the cult of Jesus and Mary, structurally similar to Isis and Osiris/Horus cult.
    The Mary symbolism is full of old pagan symbolism too; for example, lily, allegedly the symbol of her innocence, was a symbol of Lilith, the first wife of Adam, not innocent at all since God banned her to the desert!
    Her popular titulature, “Our Lady”, is the direct translation of the title Baalat Gebal/Our Lady, goddess of Byblos. Interestingly, the origins of the Christian cult of Mary seem to have been in Phoenicia too, this time however in the city of Tyre, that great friend of Israel since the reign of Salomon.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Well, no, because it leads to contradicting the negative Commandments 2, 3. Plus, there is no positive commandment “you shall worship my incarnate form”.
     
    Given that Christ inspired those commandments in the first place, and is their fulfillment, what reason is there to prioritise them over him? And knowing Christ is God, would a specific commandment be needed to worship the incarnation?

    Moreover, incarnate form disappeared long time ago...
     
    He ascended bodily into heaven, but did his incarnate form disappear from existence? Is it not present whenever the Eucharist miracle takes place?

    In a way, it is meaningless, because since the entire world is the creation of God, in this way we should worship Nature and every tree too.

     

    This seems to be a failure to grasp core Christian belief about the incarnation, that Christ was fully God and fully man, and appeals to a more Jewish or Islamic idea of God's necessary transcendence.


    Upon the simple fact that Mary was a mother of Christ...
     
    And Christ was God the Son, so Mary was mother of God the Son when he entered the world, God the Son grew in her womb, she suckled God the Son and so on. These things follow from the belief that Christ was wholly God and wholly man at the same time.

    Marian tradition is easily understandable in the light of this; that God would not choose an ordinary person as the means for his incarnation; that proximity to God of this kind would not leave a person unaffected.


    which in the end put Mary higher than God – since apparently God is unable to deny Mary anything
     
    Mary's perfection comes from her perfect conformity to the will of God; otherwise this just looks like misrepresentation.

    Unlike the cult of Jesus and God the Father, the cult of Mary is very localized
     
    No it isn't. You are talking about apparition sites here, not veneration of Mary in general.

    ...who has more churches dedicated to herself than her Son the God or all other saints
     
    Churches are mostly dedicated to the memory of saints and Mary is the greatest saint.

    You can notice these three archetypes in the form of Mary too: a mother, a virgin, and a lover (as Mary Magdalene).
     
    Mary Magdalene reference doesn't seem relevant apart from the fact that Mary Magdalene was a woman, so was Mary the Mother of God and those Greek and Roman deities are likely to be based on experience of aspects of female human nature. There seems nothing surprising in the fact that womanhood and motherhood has always been important to humans.

    But female human nature is a creation of God and bears the Imago Dei, and Mary is held to be the most perfect and fully realised example of it.

    Her popular titulature, “Our Lady”...
     

    'My lady' is an honorific term of address for women, you also find this honorific in Latin languages used much more frequently (c.f. madame, dona...) and this is probably the inspiration for its use in relation to the Queen of Heaven, as opposed to the somewhat paranoid antiquarian one proposed.

    I mean, for a neutral observer...
     

    Is there such a thing? You don't fully come across as one.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  609. @AP
    @Dmitry

    My grandparents and the other elderly Ukrainian ladies in North America who used to decorate their houses with sunflowers left Galicia after the second world war. Their affection for this plant had nothing to do with Soviet rule.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has “national connotation” as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol. Not just Ukraine, but also symbol of Kuban. It was probably to promote the seed oil industry, which they had been obsessed with expanding in this region.

    Choosing as national symbol, an Aztec flower introduced to the region in the 19th century, is a bit discordant, because people with higher education level will always perceive a native Central American connotation of the flower. It’s not a local origin and kind of recent becoming so important in the Russian empire agriculture system.

    If we search literature, sunflower is not in Russian literature before a sentence in Nikolai Uspensky in 1850s. Sunflower seeds by Tolstoy near the same time in connection to the region, and Chekhov one time in connection to black earth region, but also one time in connection to Sakhalin island (next to Japan). By Gorky, in Tambov region.

    Romanticization of sunflower is a Soviet culture. In the 1930s they were very obsessed about increasing percentage of sunflower proportion in Ukraine/Kuban. Before the revolution, there is also a cliche that revolutionary or a young man is eating sunflower seeds carelessly. More recently, careless throwing of sunflower seeds is a literary stereotype with street hooligans.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Dmitry

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3TW9Nj-mJ0

    , @AP
    @Dmitry

    This is all very interesting, thank you.


    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has “national connotation” as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol
     
    Maybe Soviets spread this in their territory while simultaneously sunflowers were also being celebrated by Ukrainians without any Soviet links. Here is a poem by Galician writer Ivan Franko, written in 1889, about sunflowers:

    http://poetyka.uazone.net/default/pages.phtml?place=franko&page=zversh65

    At least in America, Ukrainians (those with no connection to the Soviets) seem to plant and use sunflowers as decorations much more than Americans do.

    In this war, the sunflower has become a symbol of soldiers.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

  610. @A123
    @Mikel


    Herschel Walker versus Warnock
     
    The result had little to do with Trump. (1)

    • Warnock outspent Walker by 3:1, possibly more.
    • Georgia rules are about balloting (not voting)
    • Courts allowed illegal balloting the weekend after Thanksgiving
    • Kemp is a known open borders, high migration, woke, GOP(e) weasel

    Throwing shade at Trump for something beyond his control is yet another proof that you are an anti-factual #NeverTrump extremist.

     

    Again, there is a simple 100% guaranteed solution to your issue. Help Trump become President in 2024. Once he is "termed out" everything you claim you want is right there.

    Your current path, blowing up MAGA, guarantees Harris will win. How does that help what you claim is your cause? It clearly makes them worse in 2024. And, generates the possibility for Trump 2028.

    -- If I am right -- Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    -- If you are right -- Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.

    The only possible explanations for your stated course:

    • You do not grasp the certainty of failure.
    • You are a #Bidenista. You actively want all MAGA candidates to fail.

    I keep hoping it is the former and you will become more realistic. Alas, I fear it is the latter.

    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump? Or, will you continue to undermine the MAGA movement?

     
    https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--ciLY_RKs--/t_Preview/b_rgb:191919,c_lpad,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_1200/v1620477084/production/designs/21689328_0.jpg
     

    Liz Cheney wants your vote (shudder).

    PEACE 😇
    ________

    (1) https://thefederalist.com/2022/12/07/3-unsexy-reasons-warnock-beat-walker-in-the-georgia-runoff/

    Replies: @Mikel, @Mikel

    — If I am right — Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    — If you are right — Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.

    That’s the most Trumpian statement I have read in a long time (excluding Trump’s own statements, obviously). It competes with this one by the master himself before the midterm results were in:

    Well, I think if they win, I should get all the credit. If they lose, I should not be blamed at all.

    Congratulations.

    [MORE]

    • Thanks: A123
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    Well, I think if they win, I should get all the credit. If they lose, I should not be blamed at all.
     
    It’s been known before even Pelosi was born that victory has many fathers, whereas defeat is always an orphan.
  611. @A123
    @Mikel


    Herschel Walker versus Warnock
     
    The result had little to do with Trump. (1)

    • Warnock outspent Walker by 3:1, possibly more.
    • Georgia rules are about balloting (not voting)
    • Courts allowed illegal balloting the weekend after Thanksgiving
    • Kemp is a known open borders, high migration, woke, GOP(e) weasel

    Throwing shade at Trump for something beyond his control is yet another proof that you are an anti-factual #NeverTrump extremist.

     

    Again, there is a simple 100% guaranteed solution to your issue. Help Trump become President in 2024. Once he is "termed out" everything you claim you want is right there.

    Your current path, blowing up MAGA, guarantees Harris will win. How does that help what you claim is your cause? It clearly makes them worse in 2024. And, generates the possibility for Trump 2028.

    -- If I am right -- Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    -- If you are right -- Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.

    The only possible explanations for your stated course:

    • You do not grasp the certainty of failure.
    • You are a #Bidenista. You actively want all MAGA candidates to fail.

    I keep hoping it is the former and you will become more realistic. Alas, I fear it is the latter.

    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump? Or, will you continue to undermine the MAGA movement?

     
    https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--ciLY_RKs--/t_Preview/b_rgb:191919,c_lpad,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_1200/v1620477084/production/designs/21689328_0.jpg
     

    Liz Cheney wants your vote (shudder).

    PEACE 😇
    ________

    (1) https://thefederalist.com/2022/12/07/3-unsexy-reasons-warnock-beat-walker-in-the-georgia-runoff/

    Replies: @Mikel, @Mikel

    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump?

    Yes. If that happens and there is no other non-RINO candidate, I will have to support Trump, knowing that the chances of winning are close to zero. But I would expect Rand Paul to run again, in which case I would support him over Trump. He is weak on immigration but much better than Trump on foreign policy and very likely much more competent at getting things done.

    If both Trump and DeSantis run and DeSantis wins the primaries, will you support him?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel


    If both Trump and DeSantis run and DeSantis wins the primaries, will you support him?
     
    Would I support DeSantis after he openly goes RINO? [1]

    Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’ megadonor and Citadel hedge fund billionaire, Ken Griffin, openly admitted recently the Wall Street goals are (1) stop the populist movement and (2) get the Republican Party back in alignment with the multinational “corporate world.” These are the same goals of the Republican leadership in Washington DC and the same goals as the corporate media who serve as the public relations firms for Wall Street.

    The collaborative group, which includes the entirety of the funding mechanism and management behind Ron DeSantis, viewed the 2022 midterm election as an opportunity to reset the Republican Party away from the populist MAGA influence. The strategy was to roll out of the August DOJ Mar-a-Lago targeting, directly into a nationally rebranded DeSantis operation and then lead up to the 2022 midterm election.

    Anything that can cast Donald Trump as a negative would be enhanced, and anything that would cast the MAGA movement as a positive would be diminished. In part, this is the intent behind the delayed positive election results from key MAGA races in CO, WA, NV and AZ, combined with emphasis on the negative -albeit controlled- election ballot outcomes from Michigan and Pennsylvania.

     

    If DeSantis openly declares allegiance to RINO to obtain the GOP nomination? I will continue to support MAGA. I will not vote for RINO. Tens of millions of Patriotic Americans, like myself, will also refuse to vote for RINO.
    ____

    Again, the problem stems from your reality denial.

    DeSantis cannot steal the MAGA King title like a thief in the night and hope to openly wear that crown. You fundamentally misunderstand humanity if you suggest that a RINO could become desirable by emulating Brutus and Judas.

    The only way for DeSantis to clear the current book of donors is refusing to, or only making a token, run. After that proof by personal action, Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA "We Rolled Them" celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    [1] https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/10/president-trump-fires-back-against-ron-desantis-con-inc-and-coordinated-narrative-midterm-effort/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  612. @Mikel
    @A123


    — If I am right — Your best option is backing Trump 2024.
    — If you are right — Your best option is backing Trump in 2024.
     
    That's the most Trumpian statement I have read in a long time (excluding Trump's own statements, obviously). It competes with this one by the master himself before the midterm results were in:

    Well, I think if they win, I should get all the credit. If they lose, I should not be blamed at all.
     
    Congratulations.



    https://twitter.com/mattwilstein/status/1590105710440112128?s=20&t=UYkSncDqr9Zjc69_HFHV9Q

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Well, I think if they win, I should get all the credit. If they lose, I should not be blamed at all.

    It’s been known before even Pelosi was born that victory has many fathers, whereas defeat is always an orphan.

  613. @Mikel
    @A123


    When DeSantis does not run at all (or drops out very early) will you support MAGA and Trump?
     
    Yes. If that happens and there is no other non-RINO candidate, I will have to support Trump, knowing that the chances of winning are close to zero. But I would expect Rand Paul to run again, in which case I would support him over Trump. He is weak on immigration but much better than Trump on foreign policy and very likely much more competent at getting things done.

    If both Trump and DeSantis run and DeSantis wins the primaries, will you support him?

    Replies: @A123

    If both Trump and DeSantis run and DeSantis wins the primaries, will you support him?

    Would I support DeSantis after he openly goes RINO? [1]

    Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’ megadonor and Citadel hedge fund billionaire, Ken Griffin, openly admitted recently the Wall Street goals are (1) stop the populist movement and (2) get the Republican Party back in alignment with the multinational “corporate world.” These are the same goals of the Republican leadership in Washington DC and the same goals as the corporate media who serve as the public relations firms for Wall Street.

    The collaborative group, which includes the entirety of the funding mechanism and management behind Ron DeSantis, viewed the 2022 midterm election as an opportunity to reset the Republican Party away from the populist MAGA influence. The strategy was to roll out of the August DOJ Mar-a-Lago targeting, directly into a nationally rebranded DeSantis operation and then lead up to the 2022 midterm election.

    Anything that can cast Donald Trump as a negative would be enhanced, and anything that would cast the MAGA movement as a positive would be diminished. In part, this is the intent behind the delayed positive election results from key MAGA races in CO, WA, NV and AZ, combined with emphasis on the negative -albeit controlled- election ballot outcomes from Michigan and Pennsylvania.

    If DeSantis openly declares allegiance to RINO to obtain the GOP nomination? I will continue to support MAGA. I will not vote for RINO. Tens of millions of Patriotic Americans, like myself, will also refuse to vote for RINO.
    ____

    Again, the problem stems from your reality denial.

    DeSantis cannot steal the MAGA King title like a thief in the night and hope to openly wear that crown. You fundamentally misunderstand humanity if you suggest that a RINO could become desirable by emulating Brutus and Judas.

    The only way for DeSantis to clear the current book of donors is refusing to, or only making a token, run. After that proof by personal action, Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA “We Rolled Them” celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    [1] https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/10/president-trump-fires-back-against-ron-desantis-con-inc-and-coordinated-narrative-midterm-effort/

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA “We Rolled Them” celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.
     
    As Alice in Wonderland said, it’s getting “curioser and curioser”.

    Replies: @A123

  614. @A123
    @Mikel


    If both Trump and DeSantis run and DeSantis wins the primaries, will you support him?
     
    Would I support DeSantis after he openly goes RINO? [1]

    Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’ megadonor and Citadel hedge fund billionaire, Ken Griffin, openly admitted recently the Wall Street goals are (1) stop the populist movement and (2) get the Republican Party back in alignment with the multinational “corporate world.” These are the same goals of the Republican leadership in Washington DC and the same goals as the corporate media who serve as the public relations firms for Wall Street.

    The collaborative group, which includes the entirety of the funding mechanism and management behind Ron DeSantis, viewed the 2022 midterm election as an opportunity to reset the Republican Party away from the populist MAGA influence. The strategy was to roll out of the August DOJ Mar-a-Lago targeting, directly into a nationally rebranded DeSantis operation and then lead up to the 2022 midterm election.

    Anything that can cast Donald Trump as a negative would be enhanced, and anything that would cast the MAGA movement as a positive would be diminished. In part, this is the intent behind the delayed positive election results from key MAGA races in CO, WA, NV and AZ, combined with emphasis on the negative -albeit controlled- election ballot outcomes from Michigan and Pennsylvania.

     

    If DeSantis openly declares allegiance to RINO to obtain the GOP nomination? I will continue to support MAGA. I will not vote for RINO. Tens of millions of Patriotic Americans, like myself, will also refuse to vote for RINO.
    ____

    Again, the problem stems from your reality denial.

    DeSantis cannot steal the MAGA King title like a thief in the night and hope to openly wear that crown. You fundamentally misunderstand humanity if you suggest that a RINO could become desirable by emulating Brutus and Judas.

    The only way for DeSantis to clear the current book of donors is refusing to, or only making a token, run. After that proof by personal action, Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA "We Rolled Them" celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    [1] https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/11/10/president-trump-fires-back-against-ron-desantis-con-inc-and-coordinated-narrative-midterm-effort/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA “We Rolled Them” celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.

    As Alice in Wonderland said, it’s getting “curioser and curioser”.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN



    Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA “We Rolled Them” celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.

     

    As Alice in Wonderland said, it’s getting “curioser and curioser”.
     
    It is vastly more plausible than the #NeverTrump RINO pipe dream Mikel is smoking up. He is working on one that would make Hunter Biden jealous.

    From DeSantis point of view, what is his better option:

    -A- Going RINO for a head-to-head with Trump in the 2024 Primary (and likely losing)
    -B- Waiting until 2028 & receiving an uncontested MAGA handoff from the term limited President Trump

    I sincerely believe (or at least hope) that DeSantis is simply exploiting #NeverTrump greed and incompetence. While I am usually against exploiting the desperate, when they are #Bidenistas it is much more palatable.

    PEACE 😇
  615. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA “We Rolled Them” celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.
     
    As Alice in Wonderland said, it’s getting “curioser and curioser”.

    Replies: @A123

    Governor DeSantis and President Trump can get together and have the MAGA “We Rolled Them” celebration of wealth extraction from RINO Establishment donors.

    As Alice in Wonderland said, it’s getting “curioser and curioser”.

    It is vastly more plausible than the #NeverTrump RINO pipe dream Mikel is smoking up. He is working on one that would make Hunter Biden jealous.

    From DeSantis point of view, what is his better option:

    -A- Going RINO for a head-to-head with Trump in the 2024 Primary (and likely losing)
    -B- Waiting until 2028 & receiving an uncontested MAGA handoff from the term limited President Trump

    I sincerely believe (or at least hope) that DeSantis is simply exploiting #NeverTrump greed and incompetence. While I am usually against exploiting the desperate, when they are #Bidenistas it is much more palatable.

    PEACE 😇

  616. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    I would guess it would indicate something interesting about the local fashions as usual, but not so much cause and effect relation to lifestyle changes like fertility rate.
     
    There seems to be more data emerging between suggesting there is some correlation between fertility rates and political and religious belief, at least in Western countries. (e.g. the broad pattern that highly religious people are the most fertile, atheist and agnostic liberals the least) so there may be more to it.

    Similarly, some of the more extreme feminist beliefs, that motherhood is a patriarchal imposition and a means of controlling women would intuitively seem to have a negative impact on family formation. Same with the LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation. The belief that humans are going to provoke a climate disaster and destroy the world is again probably similar.

    These may not be the cause of lower fertility, they may be a reflection of some other factor, but if beliefs like them seem to spread or strengthen in a society, predicting that fertility decline will follow doesn't seem unreasonable.

    The number of pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured. I find the argument that emergence of these beliefs is due to a reductio of liberalism, where its principles are being taken to their logical conclusions quite plausible though.

    It’s a kind pro-society policy, not like the anti-natalism, because you have a view of anti-society like some romantic philosophers.
     
    This may have been partly what motivated it, there was a kind of moral panic about teenage mothers living on benefits around that time. Concern for social mobility and lowering levels of crime do not seem to have influenced government policy on other issues (say, single parent families or immigration policies), but a lack of coordination like this is not that uncommon.

    Anecdotally, part of its lasting influence seems to have been fostering the impression that having children was a disaster and would ruin your life, unless you waited until your mid-late thirties, had a high earning career and so on.

    Isn’t it just a standard topic that has too many counter-examples to describe simply.
     
    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world, whether the fertility there will continuously decline in the same way as appears to be happening in Europe and East Asia, but potentially some Latin American countries might also follow a different path.

    Replies: @AP, @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    data emerging between.. feminist beliefs.. motherhood is a patriarchal

    Maybe. But these views connecting more abstract themes to ordinary life, look sometimes like a “Rorschach test” for journalists.

    Some people are writing “Western Europe has low fertility because they are liberal feminists” and also “Iran has low fertility because they anti-liberal anti-feminists”. “Italy has low fertility because of high unemployment”, but “Japan has low fertility because they work too much”.

    Someone who dislikes feminism, will probably say (if they believe low fertility is bad) low fertility is because of feminism. Someone who likes feminism will probably say it is because there is not enough support for women.

    Those explanations are a “Rorschach test”, are giving information more about preferences of person who writes the views, instead of signal in a scatter plot’s noise.

    In general, also in this forum, people seem to be obsessed with that kind of themes, without seeing the type of life is much more significant.

    For example, people who argue two opposite views against each other in an internet forum, are likely far more similar to each other than to anyone who doesn’t write in an internet forum. We know the type of life in that time is the same – they are writing on a keyboard in the forum, having almost the same experience.

    LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation.

    You would assume a real level of LGBT preference is always the same in history as LGBT is not superficial, but inbuilt preference of a person. It’s visibility of the sexual minority which is changing with different culture or different historical epoch.

    When the visibility is lower then fertility rate of LGBT people would be higher (i.e. homosexual men and women will be marrying women and men, instead of men and women).

    So, now the visibility of sexual minority people increases in the Western context, you would expect natality would decrease for this proportion of the population.

    But then in the future, natality of the open sexual minority people would be higher in context where they have income or culture acceptance for “assisted fertility”. So, perhaps it could be like inverted-u shape of the LGBT visibility and natality, where LGBT natality will increase from the bottom of the inverted-u.

    pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured

    The only couple I know in personal life who have already 4 children, are leftwing vegetarians, with political views like “eat organic food”, “we are destroying the ecology”.

    It’s kind of predictable, people who would think a contraception is “unnatural”, will have more children, because they are directly avoiding to use contraception. It’s direct causal mechanism (“contraception is bad”) which has the influence, not more abstract views (i.e. “left vs. right”).

    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world,

    Surely, we all would guess it shouldn’t go so low, because their economic and historical modernization is so much lower.

    But then there are now those crazy counter-examples like Iran, which has now lower fertility rate than France and Ireland. Or Bangladesh, where economic level is third world, but the fertility rate is the same as Western Europe.

    So I doubt anyone can predict what will be the result in this question. Although the main reality we know is falling from high levels to more medium levels in the third world (e.g. Africa https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa).

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry

    Yo Dmitry,

    I will be visiting London from 11-15 December with 4 other friends. I think you live in London and are roughly around my age group (mid-20s)? If so, let me know if you’d like to hang. This is my email: [email protected]

    But I understand if you don’t want to reveal your offline persona. I am hesitant too but figure this probably one of only chance to meet someone from Unz.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  617. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack, you have put me in a quandary, here I am warming up to the idea of the sunflower as a symbol of Ukraine, talking myself up to it, and then, you remind me that it is a source of "seed oils," which have entered into the jargon of health nuts and are even gaining cachet among nationalists, as being a toxic product of globohomo corporations.

    Now, I stress I am not a health nut, and I pride myself on being against fads, but I am left with the inescapable fact that lately I have been disgusted by the taste of deep-fried french fries, and begun to believe baked ones are superior in every way. I think baked win on taste, especially if you use seasonings.


    I still like to use sunflower oil as a salad dressing too
     
    Ah, now you have hit me again! A salad dressing derived from a nationalist symbol? Say it ain't so! (actually, I cannot abide salad. That is stuff Mikel's rabbits should be eating)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    but I am left with the inescapable fact that lately I have been disgusted by the taste of deep-fried french fries, and begun to believe baked ones are superior in every way. I think baked win on taste, especially if you use seasonings.

    Not to sound like a lard salesman but potatoes are one thing that lard is perfect for. I like french fries chunky cut and baked with lard. I prefer doing some good steak seasoning or garlic, salt, and paprika on them while they bake. The lard really crisps them up and adds to the flavor.

    I’ll disagree with you on salad though. A well done salad can be a great meal. If you are really a skeptic, try the one I did up for the crew at a jobsite a few months ago. Romaine lettuce, red onion, tomato, and broccoli, cubed up extra sharp chedder, along with hot and crispy chopped leftover chicken and french fries and topped with either a good Italian or creamy Ceasar dressing. It’s pretty legit.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I like french fries chunky cut and baked with lard.
     
    Is that something like roast potatoes (i.e. potatoes cooked with roast beef to stew in the juices)? I confess to a fear of lard, for fear of having a heart attack. Maybe, that is overblown? But I don't know...

    A well done salad can be a great meal. If you are really a skeptic, try the one I did up for the crew at a jobsite a few months ago. Romaine lettuce, red onion, tomato, and broccoli, cubed up extra sharp chedder, along with hot and crispy chopped leftover chicken and french fries and topped with either a good Italian or creamy Ceasar dressing.
     
    I'm not averse to mixing a few vegetables in my meat and potatoes, but, to me, the dressing is actually the worst part of a salad. Granted it probably won't give you a parasitic infection like the lettuce can, if it is grown with nightsoil or contaminated with runoff, but still I don't like the taste at all.
  618. @Dmitry
    @AP

    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has "national connotation" as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol. Not just Ukraine, but also symbol of Kuban. It was probably to promote the seed oil industry, which they had been obsessed with expanding in this region.

    Choosing as national symbol, an Aztec flower introduced to the region in the 19th century, is a bit discordant, because people with higher education level will always perceive a native Central American connotation of the flower. It's not a local origin and kind of recent becoming so important in the Russian empire agriculture system.

    If we search literature, sunflower is not in Russian literature before a sentence in Nikolai Uspensky in 1850s. Sunflower seeds by Tolstoy near the same time in connection to the region, and Chekhov one time in connection to black earth region, but also one time in connection to Sakhalin island (next to Japan). By Gorky, in Tambov region.

    Romanticization of sunflower is a Soviet culture. In the 1930s they were very obsessed about increasing percentage of sunflower proportion in Ukraine/Kuban. Before the revolution, there is also a cliche that revolutionary or a young man is eating sunflower seeds carelessly. More recently, careless throwing of sunflower seeds is a literary stereotype with street hooligans.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

  619. @AnonfromTN
    @showmethereal


    Isn’t it true that in Donbass – most of the front line fighting in the first half was being done by the LPR and DPR militias – as has been the case the past 8 years? Isn’t that the reason Russia only sent over 160k in the first place? So to me it would seem that the Russian military proper were mostly in the other regions … correct?
     
    I have no first-hand knowledge about the beginning. Circumstantial evidence suggests that there was a significant Russian force in Donbass. For many years local freedom fighters only managed to maintain the front, but did not have the strength to advance. Within a short period after the RF joined the war virtually all territory of LPR and a big chunk of DPR were liberated. This suggests a considerable shift in the balance of military strength.

    During my visit to Lugansk this October I saw many Russian military vehicles and soldiers. Did not see any tanks or armored vehicles, but Lugansk is very far from the front line. I saw heavy Russian non-military equipment involved in repairs of the two bridges on the road from Lugansk to Stanitsa Luganskaya that were blown up by Ukies years ago. I was also told that Russians made a good road between Lugansk and Donetsk. This road was in a dismal state in Ukrainian period, when I was driven many times from Donetsk airport (where Lufthansa used to fly from Munich) to Lugansk and back. However, I did not see that road myself.

    Replies: @showmethereal

    Thanks for the insight… Didn’t know you were making trips so recently….

    Oh and below is the story I failed to link. This was back in 2017 and they were framing it as a Russian proxy war that started in 2015. The narrative has changed selectively. My biggest notation is them not giving the context of the dead nor the places the refugees went at the time. Deliberate of course.

    https://www.newsweek.com/did-ukraine-provide-rocket-engines-north-korea-its-nuclear-missile-program-658147

  620. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed.
     
    If you are Jewish. If you are Christian, the face of Jesus was the face of God. Large numbers of people saw this face and saw the face and body of the woman who gave birth to him.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings – since icons disclose God, don’t they? – and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.
     
    By not venerating the image of the Lord and his mother, don't you deny that he actually became incarnate as a man and had a physical body and face which was visible to everyone, and that he was worthy of worship in his incarnate form? That seems to be heresy.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @showmethereal

    That practice didn’t come until much later… When paganism was mixed in. “Another Polish” is correct… Icons indeed lead to idolatry. “Blessed are those who never saw me but will believe”…. no need for icons…

  621. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’ megadonor and Citadel hedge fund billionaire, Ken Griffin, openly admitted recently the Wall Street goals are (1) stop the populist movement and (2) get the Republican Party back in alignment with the multinational “corporate world.”

    Was he also twirling his mustache and laughing fiendishly while pressing his boot into a poor widow’s neck?

    The Conservative Treehouse link is the usual MAGA rube formula, take a news article, dumb it down, and rewrite it with a Trump slant.

    Entertaining that Republicans asked Trump to stay out of Georgia. That’s why Walker lost, no doubt.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-walker-georgia-desantis-election-runoff-2024-1234634060/

    • LOL: Mikel
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @keypusher

    Griffin's is the position of the big donors. Politicians are whores. As the whores say:


    bullshit walks and money talks.
     
    It would be more succinct if Griffin would just say that.
  622. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed. On surface, this need for painting gods could be harmless if it served curiosity and need of knowledge only. Unfortunately, images are created - not least icons - which are later worshipped (because how can you not worship God, ha?). Step by step, it leads to idolatry. I agree.

    But the point is that according to the official description of the job (ikonopisiec) one writes icons, not paints them. Typical kabbalistic-gnostic manipulation of names: not a thing, but a name of it is important.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings - since icons disclose God, don't they? - and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @A123, @AP, @AnonfromTN

    Unfortunately, images are created – not least icons – which are later worshipped

    False. You are repeating iconoclastic heresy that had been inspired by Islam.

    Icons themselves are not worshipped, rather they are used for the purpose of better worshipping and understanding God. This is analogous to the use of glasses or binoculars. When you use these things you do not look at them, rather you look at something else through them or by using them. Similarly, veneration of icons is a process of worshipping God.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers? On the other hand, nowhere God says "name saints who shall be postmen of your wills between Me and you".
    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact - observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus - that for all practical reasons, people worship icons, and they worship saints.
    By this reasoning, idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok. And this is how idolatry ban actually functions in Catholicism - in practice, it only applies to non-Catholics, as only they can be named with any certainty "idol worshippers". When was the last time one Catholic (or Orthodox) accused another Catholic/Orthodox of being "idol worshipper"?!

    But when God gave His rules to the people, He said they will be able to understand them easily - without subtle notions like intercessions etc.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church which did not use holy images. The oldest Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, build around James brother of Jesus, has had relatively few saints until recently, and no female saints except Mary too. You can easily see how Great Mother-infested Catholicism tried to take Armenian Apostolic Church through the fact that the split Armenian Church, the Catholic Armenian Church, often worships in churches dedicated to the Mary Magdalene, which is no-saint among Apostolic Armenians. Interestingly, the early judeochristian character of Armenian Apostolic Church was recognized by Jews in the late Russian Empire, who preferred this Church for conversions (and not Russian Orthodoxy) to such an extent that Russian government tried to limit that.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery and pagan form of devotion into the Church.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AP, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

  623. @Dmitry
    @AP

    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has "national connotation" as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol. Not just Ukraine, but also symbol of Kuban. It was probably to promote the seed oil industry, which they had been obsessed with expanding in this region.

    Choosing as national symbol, an Aztec flower introduced to the region in the 19th century, is a bit discordant, because people with higher education level will always perceive a native Central American connotation of the flower. It's not a local origin and kind of recent becoming so important in the Russian empire agriculture system.

    If we search literature, sunflower is not in Russian literature before a sentence in Nikolai Uspensky in 1850s. Sunflower seeds by Tolstoy near the same time in connection to the region, and Chekhov one time in connection to black earth region, but also one time in connection to Sakhalin island (next to Japan). By Gorky, in Tambov region.

    Romanticization of sunflower is a Soviet culture. In the 1930s they were very obsessed about increasing percentage of sunflower proportion in Ukraine/Kuban. Before the revolution, there is also a cliche that revolutionary or a young man is eating sunflower seeds carelessly. More recently, careless throwing of sunflower seeds is a literary stereotype with street hooligans.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AP

    This is all very interesting, thank you.

    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has “national connotation” as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol

    Maybe Soviets spread this in their territory while simultaneously sunflowers were also being celebrated by Ukrainians without any Soviet links. Here is a poem by Galician writer Ivan Franko, written in 1889, about sunflowers:

    http://poetyka.uazone.net/default/pages.phtml?place=franko&page=zversh65

    At least in America, Ukrainians (those with no connection to the Soviets) seem to plant and use sunflowers as decorations much more than Americans do.

    In this war, the sunflower has become a symbol of soldiers.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    The various attempts of some of the commentators here to somehow try to delegitimize the lasting power of the sunflower image for Ukrainians, or even of the tryzub, are specious at best. Here's a beautiful Ukrainian image of a sunflower that is quite striking, created by the world famous woodcutter Jacques Hnizdovsky. A copy rests prominently within my sister's private art collection:

    https://genderdesk.files.wordpress.com/2022/03/woodcut-print-jacques-hnizdovsky-1.jpg?w=1200&h=

    It's a mesmerizing piece, that reminds me of some sort of a Buddhist mandala.

    Replies: @Korenchkin

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    Ukrainians (those with no connection to the Soviets) seem to plant and use sunflowers as decorations
     
    And in Russia as sunflowers were the dominant flower in that time. People were using the flower which they have available, especially poorer people who do not have additional land to grow separate decorative flowers, or an English garden for growing thousands of exotic types of notedible flowers.

    Although in the beginning, sunflowers would be mixed with other agriculture. In the literature, it's describes sunflowers usually mixed with other plants near the village.

    This situation where sunflowers becomes like a monoculture with complete fields seems something created in first half of the 20th century. Some people are actually negatively writing in the 1930s, how sunflowers are conquering the country.


    a poem by Galician writer Ivan Franko, written in 1889, about sunflowers:
     
    1889. I guess sunflower is the spirit of the age. Van Gogh most famous painting, the sunflowers is painted this same year 1888/1889.

    You can see poems about sunflowers were earlier in Western Europe though in comparison to the Russian empire. For example, the poem by William Blake about the sunflower is 1794. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_Sun-flower (In Russian literature, nothing about sunflowers before the second half of the 19th century and then it is not viewed as such a poetic flower.)


    In this war, the sunflower has become a symbol of soldiers.

     

    Unfortunate we live in a year where our region is even more extreme political dystopia than normally and arguing about sunflowers is related to nightmare wars and conflict of intelligence agencies. E.g. Even (opposing Putin) Kasparov or Ponomarev to use this symbolism to support Ukraine, creates articles of paranoia. https://ru.espreso.tv/operatsiya-podsolnukh-kak-rossiyane-kradut-simvol-solidarnosti-s-ukrainoy-dlya-khoroshikh-russkikh
  624. @AP
    @Dmitry

    This is all very interesting, thank you.


    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has “national connotation” as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol
     
    Maybe Soviets spread this in their territory while simultaneously sunflowers were also being celebrated by Ukrainians without any Soviet links. Here is a poem by Galician writer Ivan Franko, written in 1889, about sunflowers:

    http://poetyka.uazone.net/default/pages.phtml?place=franko&page=zversh65

    At least in America, Ukrainians (those with no connection to the Soviets) seem to plant and use sunflowers as decorations much more than Americans do.

    In this war, the sunflower has become a symbol of soldiers.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    The various attempts of some of the commentators here to somehow try to delegitimize the lasting power of the sunflower image for Ukrainians, or even of the tryzub, are specious at best. Here’s a beautiful Ukrainian image of a sunflower that is quite striking, created by the world famous woodcutter Jacques Hnizdovsky. A copy rests prominently within my sister’s private art collection:

    It’s a mesmerizing piece, that reminds me of some sort of a Buddhist mandala.

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    @Mr. Hack

    Fits right in with the Satanic Witch larping

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  625. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Unfortunately, images are created – not least icons – which are later worshipped
     
    False. You are repeating iconoclastic heresy that had been inspired by Islam.

    Icons themselves are not worshipped, rather they are used for the purpose of better worshipping and understanding God. This is analogous to the use of glasses or binoculars. When you use these things you do not look at them, rather you look at something else through them or by using them. Similarly, veneration of icons is a process of worshipping God.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers? On the other hand, nowhere God says “name saints who shall be postmen of your wills between Me and you”.
    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact – observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus – that for all practical reasons, people worship icons, and they worship saints.
    By this reasoning, idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok. And this is how idolatry ban actually functions in Catholicism – in practice, it only applies to non-Catholics, as only they can be named with any certainty “idol worshippers”. When was the last time one Catholic (or Orthodox) accused another Catholic/Orthodox of being “idol worshipper”?!

    But when God gave His rules to the people, He said they will be able to understand them easily – without subtle notions like intercessions etc.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church which did not use holy images. The oldest Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, build around James brother of Jesus, has had relatively few saints until recently, and no female saints except Mary too. You can easily see how Great Mother-infested Catholicism tried to take Armenian Apostolic Church through the fact that the split Armenian Church, the Catholic Armenian Church, often worships in churches dedicated to the Mary Magdalene, which is no-saint among Apostolic Armenians. Interestingly, the early judeochristian character of Armenian Apostolic Church was recognized by Jews in the late Russian Empire, who preferred this Church for conversions (and not Russian Orthodoxy) to such an extent that Russian government tried to limit that.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery and pagan form of devotion into the Church.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Muslims worship at Sufi shrines & graves - correct Monotheist iconoclasm is sectarian.
    The accusation of idol worship is squarely at other religions with some context.

    Hunter-gatherer Gods tend to view idols as powerful objects.
    Ie the Idol will strike you down for disrespect
    A lens to focus the mind is how many incl Hindus view it.
    Sikhs worship weapons.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl1FCvnhpyC/?hl=en

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825657548765921280/1050120072900902992/IMG_5463.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778320724842512395/778342416490037268/image0.jpg

    https://www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=211

    Replies: @AP

    , @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers
     
    God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.

    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact – observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus – that for all practical reasons, people worship icons
     
    This was a the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church
     
    Icons had to come first, for Iconoclasm to be possible. Iconoclasm was inspired by Islam, rejected in the 7th or 8th century. There is a sermon about it at church every year.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery
     
    This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Another Polish Perspective


    So, we represent the Theotokos in the apse of the altar to show that God comes to earth and to men through her, because He became man through the Theotokos. She is “the bridge by which God descended,” and again, “she who conducts those of earth to Heaven,” the Platytera of the Heavens, the space of the uncontainable, who contained the uncontainable God within herself for our salvation. To continue, our Churches show deified men; those who became gods by Grace because God became man. In our Orthodox Churches we can picture not only the incarnate God, Christ, and His immaculate Mother the Lady Theotokos, but we also show the saints around and below the Pantocrator; on all the walls of the Church we paint the results of God’s incarnation: sainted and deified men. Thus, when we enter an Orthodox Church and see the beautiful holy icons, this is an immediate experience through which we learn what God’s plan is for man; what is the purpose of our life. Everything in the Church talks to us about the incarnation of God and the Theosis of man
     
    http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/theosis-english.pdf

    What is the purpose of your life Another Polish Perspective?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    ...idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok.
     
    When it comes to faith in God all bans are temporary, open to interpretation, and so ultimately void. The evolution of human belief in divinity (over tens of thousands of years) repeats in a closed mental circle - the situation is inherently simple.

    What is complex is how people perceive it, elaborate, try to simplify or control - the complexity is in us and always will be. The rules, prescriptions, rituals and bans change over time. They often go back and revisit the previous ones - but the existence of a simple faith remains. That is the original meaning of miracle: the uncontrollable act of faith in something divine, in something beyond nature.

    Some people need idols, like they use binoculars in an opera, or maybe because it makes them feel better, gives them joy. Denouncing it is foolish - there is no purity in faith, people choose to believe the way they want to.

    The obsession with monotheism is similarly unnatural and not enforceable - if there is a 'single' god, why wouldn't there be more? So we get trinity, saints, etc...People who insist on God being the ultimate good are introducing the concept of a Satan, atheists are always collapsing into the absurd - like a chess game with a permanent zugzwang...but those are all our choices :)...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  626. Sher Singh says:
    @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers? On the other hand, nowhere God says "name saints who shall be postmen of your wills between Me and you".
    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact - observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus - that for all practical reasons, people worship icons, and they worship saints.
    By this reasoning, idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok. And this is how idolatry ban actually functions in Catholicism - in practice, it only applies to non-Catholics, as only they can be named with any certainty "idol worshippers". When was the last time one Catholic (or Orthodox) accused another Catholic/Orthodox of being "idol worshipper"?!

    But when God gave His rules to the people, He said they will be able to understand them easily - without subtle notions like intercessions etc.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church which did not use holy images. The oldest Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, build around James brother of Jesus, has had relatively few saints until recently, and no female saints except Mary too. You can easily see how Great Mother-infested Catholicism tried to take Armenian Apostolic Church through the fact that the split Armenian Church, the Catholic Armenian Church, often worships in churches dedicated to the Mary Magdalene, which is no-saint among Apostolic Armenians. Interestingly, the early judeochristian character of Armenian Apostolic Church was recognized by Jews in the late Russian Empire, who preferred this Church for conversions (and not Russian Orthodoxy) to such an extent that Russian government tried to limit that.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery and pagan form of devotion into the Church.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AP, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    Muslims worship at Sufi shrines & graves – correct Monotheist iconoclasm is sectarian.
    The accusation of idol worship is squarely at other religions with some context.

    Hunter-gatherer Gods tend to view idols as powerful objects.
    Ie the Idol will strike you down for disrespect
    A lens to focus the mind is how many incl Hindus view it.
    Sikhs worship weapons.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl1FCvnhpyC/?hl=en

    • Replies: @AP
    @Sher Singh


    A lens to focus the mind is how many incl Hindus view it.
    Sikhs worship weapons
     
    Or rather worship through weapons?
  627. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    The various attempts of some of the commentators here to somehow try to delegitimize the lasting power of the sunflower image for Ukrainians, or even of the tryzub, are specious at best. Here's a beautiful Ukrainian image of a sunflower that is quite striking, created by the world famous woodcutter Jacques Hnizdovsky. A copy rests prominently within my sister's private art collection:

    https://genderdesk.files.wordpress.com/2022/03/woodcut-print-jacques-hnizdovsky-1.jpg?w=1200&h=

    It's a mesmerizing piece, that reminds me of some sort of a Buddhist mandala.

    Replies: @Korenchkin

    Fits right in with the Satanic Witch larping

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Korenchkin

    Really? How so? I'd really like to be able to understand what you mean here.

  628. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Well, no, because it leads to contradicting the negative Commandments 2, 3. Plus, there is no positive commandment "you shall worship my incarnate form". Moreover, incarnate form disappeared long time ago - an image of incarnate form is an image, not an incarnate form itself. In a way, it is meaningless, because since the entire world is the creation of God, in this way we should worship Nature and every tree too. It would lead to practical polytheism under the cover of official monotheism of the "All is One" kind.

    Upon the simple fact that Mary was a mother of Christ, the entire theology was built on her alleged perfectness (a claim totally incompatible with the rest of the story of the Davidic line plagued by sin), which in the end put Mary higher than God - since apparently God is unable to deny Mary anything (so is the claim), He is not really a sovereign entity anymore.

    Unlike the cult of Jesus and God the Father, the cult of Mary is very localized - it is always the Mary of Lourdes, or Mary of Fatima, or Mary of Jasna Góra ("Panna Jasnogórska/The Virgin of Jasna Góra"): this is a way a pagan cult of Aphrodite and Artemis was structured, eg. Aphrodite of Eryx.
    Three female deities were said to be avatars of the Great Mother in antiquity: Aphrodite, Artemis, and Demeter. You can notice these three archetypes in the form of Mary too: a mother, a virgin, and a lover (as Mary Magdalene). Interestingly, the Great Mother was the deity higher than other gods - likewise Mary whom God cannot deny anything, and who has more churches dedicated to herself than her Son the God or all other saints together! I mean, for a neutral observer, Christianity is the cult of Jesus and Mary, structurally similar to Isis and Osiris/Horus cult.
    The Mary symbolism is full of old pagan symbolism too; for example, lily, allegedly the symbol of her innocence, was a symbol of Lilith, the first wife of Adam, not innocent at all since God banned her to the desert!
    Her popular titulature, "Our Lady", is the direct translation of the title Baalat Gebal/Our Lady, goddess of Byblos. Interestingly, the origins of the Christian cult of Mary seem to have been in Phoenicia too, this time however in the city of Tyre, that great friend of Israel since the reign of Salomon.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Well, no, because it leads to contradicting the negative Commandments 2, 3. Plus, there is no positive commandment “you shall worship my incarnate form”.

    Given that Christ inspired those commandments in the first place, and is their fulfillment, what reason is there to prioritise them over him? And knowing Christ is God, would a specific commandment be needed to worship the incarnation?

    Moreover, incarnate form disappeared long time ago…

    He ascended bodily into heaven, but did his incarnate form disappear from existence? Is it not present whenever the Eucharist miracle takes place?

    In a way, it is meaningless, because since the entire world is the creation of God, in this way we should worship Nature and every tree too.

    This seems to be a failure to grasp core Christian belief about the incarnation, that Christ was fully God and fully man, and appeals to a more Jewish or Islamic idea of God’s necessary transcendence.

    [MORE]

    Upon the simple fact that Mary was a mother of Christ…

    And Christ was God the Son, so Mary was mother of God the Son when he entered the world, God the Son grew in her womb, she suckled God the Son and so on. These things follow from the belief that Christ was wholly God and wholly man at the same time.

    Marian tradition is easily understandable in the light of this; that God would not choose an ordinary person as the means for his incarnation; that proximity to God of this kind would not leave a person unaffected.

    which in the end put Mary higher than God – since apparently God is unable to deny Mary anything

    Mary’s perfection comes from her perfect conformity to the will of God; otherwise this just looks like misrepresentation.

    Unlike the cult of Jesus and God the Father, the cult of Mary is very localized

    No it isn’t. You are talking about apparition sites here, not veneration of Mary in general.

    …who has more churches dedicated to herself than her Son the God or all other saints

    Churches are mostly dedicated to the memory of saints and Mary is the greatest saint.

    You can notice these three archetypes in the form of Mary too: a mother, a virgin, and a lover (as Mary Magdalene).

    Mary Magdalene reference doesn’t seem relevant apart from the fact that Mary Magdalene was a woman, so was Mary the Mother of God and those Greek and Roman deities are likely to be based on experience of aspects of female human nature. There seems nothing surprising in the fact that womanhood and motherhood has always been important to humans.

    But female human nature is a creation of God and bears the Imago Dei, and Mary is held to be the most perfect and fully realised example of it.

    Her popular titulature, “Our Lady”…

    ‘My lady’ is an honorific term of address for women, you also find this honorific in Latin languages used much more frequently (c.f. madame, dona…) and this is probably the inspiration for its use in relation to the Queen of Heaven, as opposed to the somewhat paranoid antiquarian one proposed.

    I mean, for a neutral observer…

    Is there such a thing? You don’t fully come across as one.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Marian tradition

     

    This is logical theology to derive that she was holy, although you have to add that, we can't say motivation is only logic. It was also one of the most popular features they later added to the religion, that was popular in the pre-existing religions. There is integration of one of the most popular local customs and religions of new nationalities joining the Christian community in the Roman empire in the second century.

    On the other hand, adding new component of Marian worship to the religion, creates contradictions to original teaching of Jesus and the emphasis of the New Testament.

    There is partly logical derivation of theology. Why would god choose Mary, if she was not a holy woman? Logically, she should be the most holy woman of the time of birth. But it is also adding one of the most popular worships of mother gods that already exists in the new markets and nationalities Christianity spread to in the centuries after Jesus has died.

    It's difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to "pagan" religions of people who later develop it.

    So, logically Mary should be the most holy human woman, according to logical theology which is developed from the Bible. But then there is contradictions to texts they inherit, why Mary not important in the New Testament.

    She is one of less important people in the Gospels, so sometimes she is part of scenes, where she is refered without name. And this is also matching important evangelical teaching of Jesus, where he says often your family is not important, but the connection you often need to abandon when you join the heavenly community.

    In the oldest source gospel of Mark which is base of later Gospels (Mark is base text which the later Gospels are deriving), the only reference to his mother, when Jesus says, his family is not important and she is not his mother.

    This is when Jesus is first becoming famous in Galilee. They discuss as significant people coming even from Southern Lebanon (Tyre and Sidon), which is 60 kilometers walk, to listen to him.

    But because he is becoming famous, his family want control of Jesus, as they think he is crazy. Nowadays, they might have asked the local medical authority to control him, like the family of Britney Spears. His brother and mother are apparently traveling over 20 kilometers (from Nazareth to Sea of Galilee) for this.

    https://i.imgur.com/xDVl5oj.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+3%3A20-35&version=NIV

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary "this world community and family" and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It's an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.

    There is also in John, the first miracle Jesus is converting water to wine, seen by his mother. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202&version=NIV This is not in Mark, although it would be later in the career of Jesus if you tried to match the narratives.


    Mary the Mother of God and those Greek and Roman deities are likely

     

    It is very popular introduction to the religion according to human nature as most people love their mothers since their first conscious existence. However, to emphasize this is opposed to culture of the first century in Judea and Galliee and the early part of the religion, including views of Jesus.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.

    But it is emotionally a part of Christianity which is most accessible for new cultures and was until recently most popular aspect in regions like Italy.

    I posted before in discussion with Coconut about the church of Annunciation. In the church, they add painting from every culture of Mary. (There are many also inside the church).

    There is the Ukrainian Mary for the Ukrainian artists, Chinese Mary for the Chinese artists, African Mary. Love of mother, is the most accessible or universal part to be included in the religion and people can match to their own life.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4JtRYgJPbA

    Replies: @Coconuts

  629. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers? On the other hand, nowhere God says "name saints who shall be postmen of your wills between Me and you".
    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact - observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus - that for all practical reasons, people worship icons, and they worship saints.
    By this reasoning, idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok. And this is how idolatry ban actually functions in Catholicism - in practice, it only applies to non-Catholics, as only they can be named with any certainty "idol worshippers". When was the last time one Catholic (or Orthodox) accused another Catholic/Orthodox of being "idol worshipper"?!

    But when God gave His rules to the people, He said they will be able to understand them easily - without subtle notions like intercessions etc.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church which did not use holy images. The oldest Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, build around James brother of Jesus, has had relatively few saints until recently, and no female saints except Mary too. You can easily see how Great Mother-infested Catholicism tried to take Armenian Apostolic Church through the fact that the split Armenian Church, the Catholic Armenian Church, often worships in churches dedicated to the Mary Magdalene, which is no-saint among Apostolic Armenians. Interestingly, the early judeochristian character of Armenian Apostolic Church was recognized by Jews in the late Russian Empire, who preferred this Church for conversions (and not Russian Orthodoxy) to such an extent that Russian government tried to limit that.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery and pagan form of devotion into the Church.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AP, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers

    God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.

    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact – observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus – that for all practical reasons, people worship icons

    This was a the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church

    Icons had to come first, for Iconoclasm to be possible. Iconoclasm was inspired by Islam, rejected in the 7th or 8th century. There is a sermon about it at church every year.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery

    This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    "God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference."
    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God. Never heard about this problem for which saints/icons are to be a solution. So maybe the problem was created for the solution in the first place...?

    "This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly."
    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them. He sent prophets who were not perfect men and not saints too. But God says His rules are simple and easy to understand. So now we have no prophets but multitude of saints who were perfect men...? How does this is to help me...?

    "Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church"
    When the early Church did not use holy images, it means that it practiced iconoclasm without naming it with a fancy name, it was just the Third Commandment. Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey, or ancient lands of Armenia, Osrhoene, Commagene, Adiabene. Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims. Maybe God has spoken on what He likes...

    "This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East."
    Don't see connection here.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

  630. @Sher Singh
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Muslims worship at Sufi shrines & graves - correct Monotheist iconoclasm is sectarian.
    The accusation of idol worship is squarely at other religions with some context.

    Hunter-gatherer Gods tend to view idols as powerful objects.
    Ie the Idol will strike you down for disrespect
    A lens to focus the mind is how many incl Hindus view it.
    Sikhs worship weapons.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl1FCvnhpyC/?hl=en

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825657548765921280/1050120072900902992/IMG_5463.png

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778320724842512395/778342416490037268/image0.jpg

    https://www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=211

    Replies: @AP

    A lens to focus the mind is how many incl Hindus view it.
    Sikhs worship weapons

    Or rather worship through weapons?

    • Disagree: Sher Singh
  631. Within the last 24 hours –

  632. @Korenchkin
    @Mr. Hack

    Fits right in with the Satanic Witch larping

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Really? How so? I’d really like to be able to understand what you mean here.

  633. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers
     
    God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.

    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact – observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus – that for all practical reasons, people worship icons
     
    This was a the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church
     
    Icons had to come first, for Iconoclasm to be possible. Iconoclasm was inspired by Islam, rejected in the 7th or 8th century. There is a sermon about it at church every year.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery
     
    This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    “God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.”
    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God. Never heard about this problem for which saints/icons are to be a solution. So maybe the problem was created for the solution in the first place…?

    “This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.”
    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them. He sent prophets who were not perfect men and not saints too. But God says His rules are simple and easy to understand. So now we have no prophets but multitude of saints who were perfect men…? How does this is to help me…?

    “Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church”
    When the early Church did not use holy images, it means that it practiced iconoclasm without naming it with a fancy name, it was just the Third Commandment. Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey, or ancient lands of Armenia, Osrhoene, Commagene, Adiabene. Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims. Maybe God has spoken on what He likes…

    “This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East.”
    Don’t see connection here.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    “God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.”

    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God

     

    You deny that humans are imperfect and can have all sorts of problems?

    “This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.”

    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them
     

    People do not need “binoculars” to approach God but many find them to be very helpful. Likewise at the opera.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church”
    When the early Church did not use holy images
     
    Icons appeared as soon as Christians were able to build churches; the first churches and places used for worship by Christians included icons.

    it was just the Third Commandment
     
    Icons do not take the Lord’s name in vain.

    Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey

     

    In other words, the places with most contact with Muslims.

    Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims

     

    Byzantium at its peaks such as under Justinian and Basil II venerated icons.

    Maybe God has spoken on what He likes…

     

    Well, ultimately most of the Islamic lands came to be controlled by Orthodox, Catholics or Anglicans. Jews, who oppose icons, haven’t done great historically either.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective


    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them.
     
    If only those communication mistakes could be solved through the use of binoculars... In fact, His message was so confusing and poorly delivered that most people on Earth don't even believe in the Christian God. And in the parts of the globe where everybody used to believe in Him the percentage keeps shrinking.
  634. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers? On the other hand, nowhere God says "name saints who shall be postmen of your wills between Me and you".
    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact - observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus - that for all practical reasons, people worship icons, and they worship saints.
    By this reasoning, idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok. And this is how idolatry ban actually functions in Catholicism - in practice, it only applies to non-Catholics, as only they can be named with any certainty "idol worshippers". When was the last time one Catholic (or Orthodox) accused another Catholic/Orthodox of being "idol worshipper"?!

    But when God gave His rules to the people, He said they will be able to understand them easily - without subtle notions like intercessions etc.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church which did not use holy images. The oldest Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, build around James brother of Jesus, has had relatively few saints until recently, and no female saints except Mary too. You can easily see how Great Mother-infested Catholicism tried to take Armenian Apostolic Church through the fact that the split Armenian Church, the Catholic Armenian Church, often worships in churches dedicated to the Mary Magdalene, which is no-saint among Apostolic Armenians. Interestingly, the early judeochristian character of Armenian Apostolic Church was recognized by Jews in the late Russian Empire, who preferred this Church for conversions (and not Russian Orthodoxy) to such an extent that Russian government tried to limit that.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery and pagan form of devotion into the Church.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AP, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    So, we represent the Theotokos in the apse of the altar to show that God comes to earth and to men through her, because He became man through the Theotokos. She is “the bridge by which God descended,” and again, “she who conducts those of earth to Heaven,” the Platytera of the Heavens, the space of the uncontainable, who contained the uncontainable God within herself for our salvation. To continue, our Churches show deified men; those who became gods by Grace because God became man. In our Orthodox Churches we can picture not only the incarnate God, Christ, and His immaculate Mother the Lady Theotokos, but we also show the saints around and below the Pantocrator; on all the walls of the Church we paint the results of God’s incarnation: sainted and deified men. Thus, when we enter an Orthodox Church and see the beautiful holy icons, this is an immediate experience through which we learn what God’s plan is for man; what is the purpose of our life. Everything in the Church talks to us about the incarnation of God and the Theosis of man

    http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/theosis-english.pdf

    What is the purpose of your life Another Polish Perspective?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mr. Hack

    The purpose of my life is to find the ultimate TRUTH.
    This (the recognition of truth) can only happen when answering to the questions I MYSELF have posed. Entering the church with its bewildering multitude of images does not evoke in me a sense this is an answer to my question; in fact I feel it is all a bit alien to me, those surroundings. I often need descriptions what is what .... but nowadays even priests do not know for sure what some picture in their own church depicts (my experience)! Priests are slacking nowadays..

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  635. This should be good –

  636. @Mr. Hack
    @Another Polish Perspective


    So, we represent the Theotokos in the apse of the altar to show that God comes to earth and to men through her, because He became man through the Theotokos. She is “the bridge by which God descended,” and again, “she who conducts those of earth to Heaven,” the Platytera of the Heavens, the space of the uncontainable, who contained the uncontainable God within herself for our salvation. To continue, our Churches show deified men; those who became gods by Grace because God became man. In our Orthodox Churches we can picture not only the incarnate God, Christ, and His immaculate Mother the Lady Theotokos, but we also show the saints around and below the Pantocrator; on all the walls of the Church we paint the results of God’s incarnation: sainted and deified men. Thus, when we enter an Orthodox Church and see the beautiful holy icons, this is an immediate experience through which we learn what God’s plan is for man; what is the purpose of our life. Everything in the Church talks to us about the incarnation of God and the Theosis of man
     
    http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/theosis-english.pdf

    What is the purpose of your life Another Polish Perspective?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    The purpose of my life is to find the ultimate TRUTH.
    This (the recognition of truth) can only happen when answering to the questions I MYSELF have posed. Entering the church with its bewildering multitude of images does not evoke in me a sense this is an answer to my question; in fact I feel it is all a bit alien to me, those surroundings. I often need descriptions what is what …. but nowadays even priests do not know for sure what some picture in their own church depicts (my experience)! Priests are slacking nowadays..

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Another Polish Perspective


    The purpose of my life is to find the ultimate TRUTH.
     
    Try reading the booklet that I've referenced above. It's helped me immensely in answering the very same question that's been perplexing you and many others. There are indeed some slacker priests out there, but there are still many good ones out there too. BTW, did you know that somebody creating an icon, in the old school sense (not like todays man made printed imitations) had to pray, meditate and even fast before starting to paint an icon? It was an arduous task that included much spiritual preparation.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  637. 😝 Open Thread Humor 😂

    Look under [MORE] for the rest.

    🎄MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎄

     
     

    [MORE]

     
     
     

     
     
     
     

  638. @keypusher

    Florida Governor Ron DeSantis’ megadonor and Citadel hedge fund billionaire, Ken Griffin, openly admitted recently the Wall Street goals are (1) stop the populist movement and (2) get the Republican Party back in alignment with the multinational “corporate world.”
     
    Was he also twirling his mustache and laughing fiendishly while pressing his boot into a poor widow's neck?

    The Conservative Treehouse link is the usual MAGA rube formula, take a news article, dumb it down, and rewrite it with a Trump slant.

    Entertaining that Republicans asked Trump to stay out of Georgia. That's why Walker lost, no doubt.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-walker-georgia-desantis-election-runoff-2024-1234634060/

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Griffin’s is the position of the big donors. Politicians are whores. As the whores say:

    bullshit walks and money talks.

    It would be more succinct if Griffin would just say that.

  639. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mr. Hack

    The purpose of my life is to find the ultimate TRUTH.
    This (the recognition of truth) can only happen when answering to the questions I MYSELF have posed. Entering the church with its bewildering multitude of images does not evoke in me a sense this is an answer to my question; in fact I feel it is all a bit alien to me, those surroundings. I often need descriptions what is what .... but nowadays even priests do not know for sure what some picture in their own church depicts (my experience)! Priests are slacking nowadays..

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The purpose of my life is to find the ultimate TRUTH.

    Try reading the booklet that I’ve referenced above. It’s helped me immensely in answering the very same question that’s been perplexing you and many others. There are indeed some slacker priests out there, but there are still many good ones out there too. BTW, did you know that somebody creating an icon, in the old school sense (not like todays man made printed imitations) had to pray, meditate and even fast before starting to paint an icon? It was an arduous task that included much spiritual preparation.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    In the church where I was baptized and confirmed it was a big hub bub when some of the members wanted to splurge some of the surplus on stained glass windows. Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry. Protestant fanatics in 30 Years War time went through churches in Germany with sledge hammers and axes and destroyed art work which has got to be a billion dollars in 2020 fake money.

    My guess is nobody in 95% denominations cares about this today. I certainly do not. But we do not have crucifixes. They did buy the new stained glass windows. One side of the church was scenes from Old T--Garden Eden, Noah's Ark, &c. The other side of the church was scenes from New T--Manger, Sermon Mount, &c. No depictions of Passion or Resurrection or Ascension. All the Jesuses were small and unobtrusive and it was hard to tell he was the focus of the scene as best as I can recall although it has been a few years since I have been inside that building.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

  640. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    "God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference."
    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God. Never heard about this problem for which saints/icons are to be a solution. So maybe the problem was created for the solution in the first place...?

    "This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly."
    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them. He sent prophets who were not perfect men and not saints too. But God says His rules are simple and easy to understand. So now we have no prophets but multitude of saints who were perfect men...? How does this is to help me...?

    "Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church"
    When the early Church did not use holy images, it means that it practiced iconoclasm without naming it with a fancy name, it was just the Third Commandment. Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey, or ancient lands of Armenia, Osrhoene, Commagene, Adiabene. Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims. Maybe God has spoken on what He likes...

    "This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East."
    Don't see connection here.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    “God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.”

    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God

    You deny that humans are imperfect and can have all sorts of problems?

    “This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.”

    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them

    People do not need “binoculars” to approach God but many find them to be very helpful. Likewise at the opera.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church”
    When the early Church did not use holy images

    Icons appeared as soon as Christians were able to build churches; the first churches and places used for worship by Christians included icons.

    it was just the Third Commandment

    Icons do not take the Lord’s name in vain.

    Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey

    In other words, the places with most contact with Muslims.

    Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims

    Byzantium at its peaks such as under Justinian and Basil II venerated icons.

    Maybe God has spoken on what He likes…

    Well, ultimately most of the Islamic lands came to be controlled by Orthodox, Catholics or Anglicans. Jews, who oppose icons, haven’t done great historically either.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    I mistook the Second Commandment for the Third One, because I originally learnt Commandments in Poland, and they apparently skipped the Second one in favour of splitting the last one into two. Very strange. This is why I couldn't clearly say which is which. It must be those covert pagans.... they want everyone to be an idolater in Poland!
    See yourself:

    http://aos-pl.org/?q=node/54

    https://www.biblijni.pl/modlitwy/7_dziesiec_przykazan.html

    The early Christians did not venerate icons even though they did some rudimentary images. The cult of icons followed the cult of martyrs which naturally followed the period of persecutions.

    As for Byzantium, I meant Leo III and Isaurian/Syrian dynasty, successfully opposing Umayyads. Justinian the Great did not fight Muslims. Unfortunately, iconoclasm was ended by this woman, who even claimed to be the empress in her own right !
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_of_Athens

    You can see that he comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar (after Constantinople district) which rules the Constantinople patriarchate until today, probably descendants of Minoan Greeks since the Byzantine double eagle in some interpretations represents labrys, very tellingly a symbol of feminism too. You can also see typical modus operandi of covert Great Goddess followers: marrying into family to take it over, a belief in female sovereignty up to being a monarch on her own: for this reason, she killed her own son (in other words, the importance of female bloodline), iconodulism.

    Interestingly, the merchants tried to do the same in Poland with Bona Sforza: in terms of her (female) bloodline, they hold the Polish throne up to Jan Casimir Vasa. Sforza coat of arms brings to us the image which can only be interpreted with the help of Genesis 3:15: the serpent tries to eat the man starting from his feet. As you can see, the other element is the imperial eagle - correctly, despite the fact that Milan was Guelph city, since Sforzas originally came from Ravenna, which was the old Byzantine possession in Italy. They could even have real Greek origins, since many Byzantines immigrated to Italy.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Coat_of_arms_of_the_House_of_Sforza.svg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  641. @Mikel
    @A123

    Rand Paul was one of the many Republicans who wanted to continue investigating the election fraud accusations even after the state legislatures had dismissed Trump's lawyers' arguments and certified the results. He argued on TV that one shouldn't give too much importance to the court rules against fraud allegations, given the judiciary's history of staying away from electoral result issues. He was planning to contest Biden's nomination and demand further investigations the day that the low-IQ yahoos stormed Congress. He is still called an "election denier" because all of this. This is what he had to say the day of the Georgia runoff, before the results were known:



    “We’re recording this on the evening of the Herschel Walker election with Warnock,” Ryan said. “We’ll see what happens there. But my guess is more strings of defeat delivered to us clearly by Donald Trump is enough for our party to realize we've got to move on if we want to win.”

    Knowing he was talking about a man who has already announced his 2024 presidential campaign, Ryan continued:

    “I think he’s unfit for the job. I don't think he's going to get the nomination in my party. It’s crystal, crystal, crystal clear: We lose with Trump if we stick with Trump. If we dump Trump, we start winning elections.”
     
    There's just an avalanche of former Trump allies and even friends, like Oliver Stone, who have had enough of him. That is the "objectively factual" reality. If DeSantis beats him in the primaries they will all back him but you are right that a bunch of diehards will rather have Trump run as an independent than accepting his defeat at the primaries. Worse perhaps, right now a real RINO (not an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis) has probably more chances of winning the primaries than Trump.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    .

    ..an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis

    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West. Trump folded from the beginning, as he has in other areas – the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: “we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk..” (?)

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future? DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that’s worth something.

    On the other hand, who if not DeSantis would be a perfect ‘leader’ of a Phase II corona madness panic? They could use his credibility to prick the fools twice a day with just about anything…

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Beckow

    I'm not necessarily a big fan of anti-mandate politicians, it's not a very big issue for me. But yes, definitely he had the courage to oppose the mainstream media and the Establishment on that topic with actual actions too. In terms of character he's obviously head and shoulders above Trump but I wouldn't expect much from him on the Russia and interventionism front. The only good sign is that he has largely ignored the Ukraine war issue in his public pronouncements. He may be waiting to see how public opinion evolves.

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West.
     
    He was reasonable, but I wouldn’t call him the most reasonable. Sweden did not go mad about covid. I was there early this year. Except for a few crazy American tourists nobody wore any masks in the streets. Nobody wore masks at Karolinska Institute, where I was an opponent on dissertation defense. This was quite a relief after half-mad US and totally loony Western Europe. Florida was saner than most of the US, but crazier than Sweden.
    , @A123
    @Beckow


    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West.
     
    Keeping those sick with the CCP's WUHAN-19 virus out of nursing homes saved many lives. One must give credit where credit is due. DeSantis has shown skill at the *state* level.

    Trump folded from the beginning
     
    Trump is not an epidemiologist. He relied on Fauci and similar experts. 20/20 hindsight they provided bad information. Fauci rolled lots of people.

    If DeSantis had been President would he have launched the same vaxx development program? Probably. No one knew Fauci was corrupt until much later on.


    the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: “we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.
     
    Trump's policy in the region was badly handicapped by the "Russia, Russia, Russia" myth and foolishly appointed Special Prosecutor. Despite these handicaps there was only one large package ~$400MM and it was driven by domestic political concerns timed to Putin's election win.

    Realistically what did you expect Trump to do that was actually achievable amongst many other competing priorities. You should consider his largely successful crimp of neocon ambitions to be a limited win.

    Merkel of course wanted migrants. Stoking the conflict in Ukraine was simply one tool from her arsenal in that regard.


    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future?
     
    Trump has used time a way from the White House to prepare for his 2nd term.

    Trump will receive appropriations from a much friendlier House. He has worked on "soft power" through endorsements, rallies and fund raising, which will improve his ability to move things in the Senate. There would be no "Russia, Russia, Russia" myth and Special Prosecutor.

    Realistically Trump's 2nd term will be much better than his 1st. Will he be able to achieve 100% complete total absolutely everything perfection in every category. Of course not. Compromise will still be required. However the political board is set to win more and horse trade less.


    who if not DeSantis would be a perfect ‘leader’ of a Phase II corona madness panic?
     
    Trump and many others would do just as well now that the experts and doom criers have been exposed. Trump openly states that military service men (1) and children (2), do not need the jab:

    If Republicans win back Congress this fall they should pass a law to rehire military service members who were discharged over the COVID-19 vaccine mandate, former President Donald Trump said at a rally in Conroe, Texas, on Saturday.

    "Next year, a Republican Congress should pass a bill rehiring every single member of the military who was cruelly and wrongfully terminated by Joe Biden and his ridiculous COVID mandate," Trump said as the crowd cheered. "And force the Pentagon to give these patriots an apology and full back pay."

    The Biden administration announced in August that vaccines would be mandated for service members. In December, the Pentagon said 98% of active-duty troops had been vaccinated, but that those who do not get it would face consequences.
     


    Trump said, "but to have every schoolchild, where it’s 99.99%, they’re just not affected badly. Having to receive a vaccine, I think it’s something that you should start thinking about because I think it’s unnecessary.”
     
    Speaking out for Main Street conscientious objectors and other Vaxx-Realists is Trump's proven track record.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-congress-rehire-military-members-let-go-over-vaccine-2022-1

    (2) https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-covid-19-vaccines-030700385.html

    , @LatW
    @Beckow


    DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that’s worth something.
     
    Indeed. And not only that, but he also has a reasonable stance on the CRT & trannies, and was even able to achieve some results in that area (granted, on the state level), so if he is able to maintain those positions and not budge or compromise when he gets to the national level (where it might be harder to maintain those positions, the pressure will be on a whole new level), then this would be very valuable indeed, not just for the US, but the Europeans as well. One could always lean on him against the crazies. He's also rational and non-eccentric so it would be harder for the left to tarnish his character. Oh, and him not being 75 or 80 would be a breath of fresh air.

    Replies: @A123

  642. @Mr. Hack
    @Another Polish Perspective


    The purpose of my life is to find the ultimate TRUTH.
     
    Try reading the booklet that I've referenced above. It's helped me immensely in answering the very same question that's been perplexing you and many others. There are indeed some slacker priests out there, but there are still many good ones out there too. BTW, did you know that somebody creating an icon, in the old school sense (not like todays man made printed imitations) had to pray, meditate and even fast before starting to paint an icon? It was an arduous task that included much spiritual preparation.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    In the church where I was baptized and confirmed it was a big hub bub when some of the members wanted to splurge some of the surplus on stained glass windows. Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry. Protestant fanatics in 30 Years War time went through churches in Germany with sledge hammers and axes and destroyed art work which has got to be a billion dollars in 2020 fake money.

    My guess is nobody in 95% denominations cares about this today. I certainly do not. But we do not have crucifixes. They did buy the new stained glass windows. One side of the church was scenes from Old T–Garden Eden, Noah’s Ark, &c. The other side of the church was scenes from New T–Manger, Sermon Mount, &c. No depictions of Passion or Resurrection or Ascension. All the Jesuses were small and unobtrusive and it was hard to tell he was the focus of the scene as best as I can recall although it has been a few years since I have been inside that building.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Those that complain about embellishing the House of the Lord, remind me of Judas Iscariot who complained about the "wasted money" used to buy the ultra expensive nard that Mary used when she washed the feet of Jesus. Would the money saved by not buying the new stained glass windows be better used to help the poor, or would the money have languished in a 10 year CD paying 4% interest, only to be turned over once again in another 10 years? Although the adoration of a church structure with expensive works of art, icons, gold leafed bible, jewel encrusted chalice or censor etc, should never be the sole purpose of maintaining a church building, the inclusion of such items based on a true reverence and love of the Lord only brings honor to His name and His ability to change peoples' lives. People dress up in their finest when attending church services (at least they used to0. :-) ), try to maintain their own homes in the newest and best styles, so shouldn't the House of the Lord reflect their generosity and love for the Lord too?

    https://excursions.kiev.travel/storage/excursions/3/middle5/Kiev-Pechersk_Lavra,_Assumption_Cathedral,_inside_1.webp
    The beauriful Assumpton Cathedral, Pecherska Lavra, Kyiv Ukraine

    The Ukrainian church derived its inspiration from the Greek church, embellishing it to heavenly measures!

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament. But because I had no questions (see my comment no. 640 here) it didn't impress me. Nevertheless, for some time when someone did something wrong, I used to bring a religious aspect to it, like "You broke the 8th commendment". People disliked it. I realized that for the most people, Church is really just a building whose rules end behind its door. You can see it during the current war: I am surprised that on neither side there is religious opposition, even dissident one. Where are priests preaching that Ukrainians/Russians are humans too and we should not kill them?

    But what people really disliked is when I told them that their negation of sin may bring them eternal condemnation ("how do you know this sin of yours is not the one which will send you to hell")... I realized that what Catholics fear the most is that there is no forgiveness, and that judgment may be for real, and not just to scare them into the arms of the ever-forgiving Christ, unfortunately shadowed in the distance by the strict God of the Old Testament. If you heard ordinary Catholics talking about why they do not like Protestants - because they are so "dark" and talk about "condemnation" - you realize this is true.

    So I learnt that the most people apparently just want eternal slack and eternal forgiveness. In other words, they want religion which will accommodate their natural tendencies. Of which Catholicism is pretty good example anyway, and Orthodoxy as well. Nevertheless, most of that stuff is not in the Scripture.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry.
     
    Frugal-looking churches are not the only feature of Protestantism that appeals to me. Many protestant denominations prohibit professional priests, rightly considering that it’s unseemly when someone makes a living by being a priest. I also find protestant saying “God helps those who help themselves” remarkably wise.

    However, in my view the existence of a Church contradicts the basic tenet of Christianity that God is all-knowing. Based on that, every person can communicate with God directly, without imperfect intermediaries (priests are human, and therefore prone to sin). Naturally, elementary sociology will explain to you that Church is an institution (in addition, Catholic and Orthodox churches are very wealthy institutions, literally filthy rich), and therefore every Church has its own interests, which have nothing to do with God.

    I go to churches (buildings) to see the art inside, which in some cases is of better quality than you can find in the best museums. However, if I were religious, I would never go to any church, I would find its existence sacrilegious.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  643. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    "God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference."
    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God. Never heard about this problem for which saints/icons are to be a solution. So maybe the problem was created for the solution in the first place...?

    "This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly."
    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them. He sent prophets who were not perfect men and not saints too. But God says His rules are simple and easy to understand. So now we have no prophets but multitude of saints who were perfect men...? How does this is to help me...?

    "Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church"
    When the early Church did not use holy images, it means that it practiced iconoclasm without naming it with a fancy name, it was just the Third Commandment. Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey, or ancient lands of Armenia, Osrhoene, Commagene, Adiabene. Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims. Maybe God has spoken on what He likes...

    "This reminds me of the interesting argument that Jesus was a Buddhist who tried to introduce Buddhism to the Middle East."
    Don't see connection here.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them.

    If only those communication mistakes could be solved through the use of binoculars… In fact, His message was so confusing and poorly delivered that most people on Earth don’t even believe in the Christian God. And in the parts of the globe where everybody used to believe in Him the percentage keeps shrinking.

  644. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    So, icons are like saints, who are allegedly needed for intercession, despite God claiming many times in the Bible that He sees everything, need some interlopers? On the other hand, nowhere God says "name saints who shall be postmen of your wills between Me and you".
    This is sophisticated obfuscation, denying the real fact - observed by me, not least in Ukraine and Belarus - that for all practical reasons, people worship icons, and they worship saints.
    By this reasoning, idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok. And this is how idolatry ban actually functions in Catholicism - in practice, it only applies to non-Catholics, as only they can be named with any certainty "idol worshippers". When was the last time one Catholic (or Orthodox) accused another Catholic/Orthodox of being "idol worshipper"?!

    But when God gave His rules to the people, He said they will be able to understand them easily - without subtle notions like intercessions etc.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church which did not use holy images. The oldest Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, build around James brother of Jesus, has had relatively few saints until recently, and no female saints except Mary too. You can easily see how Great Mother-infested Catholicism tried to take Armenian Apostolic Church through the fact that the split Armenian Church, the Catholic Armenian Church, often worships in churches dedicated to the Mary Magdalene, which is no-saint among Apostolic Armenians. Interestingly, the early judeochristian character of Armenian Apostolic Church was recognized by Jews in the late Russian Empire, who preferred this Church for conversions (and not Russian Orthodoxy) to such an extent that Russian government tried to limit that.

    As I said, Mary & saints & icons intercessions led to the introduction of pagan imagery and pagan form of devotion into the Church.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @AP, @Mr. Hack, @Beckow

    …idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok.

    When it comes to faith in God all bans are temporary, open to interpretation, and so ultimately void. The evolution of human belief in divinity (over tens of thousands of years) repeats in a closed mental circle – the situation is inherently simple.

    What is complex is how people perceive it, elaborate, try to simplify or control – the complexity is in us and always will be. The rules, prescriptions, rituals and bans change over time. They often go back and revisit the previous ones – but the existence of a simple faith remains. That is the original meaning of miracle: the uncontrollable act of faith in something divine, in something beyond nature.

    Some people need idols, like they use binoculars in an opera, or maybe because it makes them feel better, gives them joy. Denouncing it is foolish – there is no purity in faith, people choose to believe the way they want to.

    The obsession with monotheism is similarly unnatural and not enforceable – if there is a ‘single’ god, why wouldn’t there be more? So we get trinity, saints, etc…People who insist on God being the ultimate good are introducing the concept of a Satan, atheists are always collapsing into the absurd – like a chess game with a permanent zugzwang…but those are all our choices :)…

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Beckow

    My point was not about idolatry per se but about hypocrites, namely polytheists pretending to be monotheists. If you want to worship Magna Mater, or Artemis, or Baal - ok, just do it in open. But what is really unpleasant is the feeling that things are not what they are said to be, the feeling which nowadays permeates not just religions, but entire cultures.

    At the beginning of Christianity there was a conflict between Paulian Christians and Judeochristians. Why this conflict? Why simply not two religions? And I must say it is mostly polytheists who try to subvert monotheism, and not vice versa - monotheists subverting polytheists.
    The same is with rabbinic Judaism, which is covert polytheism in its Kabbalistic form, with Shekina being a form of the Great Goddess there.

    I cannot really agree that religion is just externalization of some innate human tendencies since even polytheists are pretty strict, for example by insisting on some great female deity, be it Holy Mary or Shekina/Rachel in Judaism, or Fatima in Shi'a Islam (often compared to Mary). The ingenious cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is marginal after all.

    If those innate human tendencies are somehow restricted in their propositions, that leads naturally to the monotheism proposition again. In a way, Satan is also monotheist, as he strives to rule the Earth.

  645. @Beckow
    @Mikel

    .


    ..an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis
     
    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West. Trump folded from the beginning, as he has in other areas - the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: "we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.." (?)

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future? DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that's worth something.

    On the other hand, who if not DeSantis would be a perfect 'leader' of a Phase II corona madness panic? They could use his credibility to prick the fools twice a day with just about anything...

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @A123, @LatW

    I’m not necessarily a big fan of anti-mandate politicians, it’s not a very big issue for me. But yes, definitely he had the courage to oppose the mainstream media and the Establishment on that topic with actual actions too. In terms of character he’s obviously head and shoulders above Trump but I wouldn’t expect much from him on the Russia and interventionism front. The only good sign is that he has largely ignored the Ukraine war issue in his public pronouncements. He may be waiting to see how public opinion evolves.

  646. @Beckow
    @Mikel

    .


    ..an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis
     
    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West. Trump folded from the beginning, as he has in other areas - the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: "we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.." (?)

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future? DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that's worth something.

    On the other hand, who if not DeSantis would be a perfect 'leader' of a Phase II corona madness panic? They could use his credibility to prick the fools twice a day with just about anything...

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @A123, @LatW

    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West.

    He was reasonable, but I wouldn’t call him the most reasonable. Sweden did not go mad about covid. I was there early this year. Except for a few crazy American tourists nobody wore any masks in the streets. Nobody wore masks at Karolinska Institute, where I was an opponent on dissertation defense. This was quite a relief after half-mad US and totally loony Western Europe. Florida was saner than most of the US, but crazier than Sweden.

  647. @Beckow
    @Mikel

    .


    ..an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis
     
    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West. Trump folded from the beginning, as he has in other areas - the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: "we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.." (?)

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future? DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that's worth something.

    On the other hand, who if not DeSantis would be a perfect 'leader' of a Phase II corona madness panic? They could use his credibility to prick the fools twice a day with just about anything...

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @A123, @LatW

    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West.

    Keeping those sick with the CCP’s WUHAN-19 virus out of nursing homes saved many lives. One must give credit where credit is due. DeSantis has shown skill at the *state* level.

    Trump folded from the beginning

    Trump is not an epidemiologist. He relied on Fauci and similar experts. 20/20 hindsight they provided bad information. Fauci rolled lots of people.

    If DeSantis had been President would he have launched the same vaxx development program? Probably. No one knew Fauci was corrupt until much later on.

    the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: “we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.

    Trump’s policy in the region was badly handicapped by the “Russia, Russia, Russia” myth and foolishly appointed Special Prosecutor. Despite these handicaps there was only one large package ~$400MM and it was driven by domestic political concerns timed to Putin’s election win.

    Realistically what did you expect Trump to do that was actually achievable amongst many other competing priorities. You should consider his largely successful crimp of neocon ambitions to be a limited win.

    Merkel of course wanted migrants. Stoking the conflict in Ukraine was simply one tool from her arsenal in that regard.

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future?

    Trump has used time a way from the White House to prepare for his 2nd term.

    Trump will receive appropriations from a much friendlier House. He has worked on “soft power” through endorsements, rallies and fund raising, which will improve his ability to move things in the Senate. There would be no “Russia, Russia, Russia” myth and Special Prosecutor.

    Realistically Trump’s 2nd term will be much better than his 1st. Will he be able to achieve 100% complete total absolutely everything perfection in every category. Of course not. Compromise will still be required. However the political board is set to win more and horse trade less.

    who if not DeSantis would be a perfect ‘leader’ of a Phase II corona madness panic?

    Trump and many others would do just as well now that the experts and doom criers have been exposed. Trump openly states that military service men (1) and children (2), do not need the jab:

    If Republicans win back Congress this fall they should pass a law to rehire military service members who were discharged over the COVID-19 vaccine mandate, former President Donald Trump said at a rally in Conroe, Texas, on Saturday.

    “Next year, a Republican Congress should pass a bill rehiring every single member of the military who was cruelly and wrongfully terminated by Joe Biden and his ridiculous COVID mandate,” Trump said as the crowd cheered. “And force the Pentagon to give these patriots an apology and full back pay.”

    The Biden administration announced in August that vaccines would be mandated for service members. In December, the Pentagon said 98% of active-duty troops had been vaccinated, but that those who do not get it would face consequences.

    Trump said, “but to have every schoolchild, where it’s 99.99%, they’re just not affected badly. Having to receive a vaccine, I think it’s something that you should start thinking about because I think it’s unnecessary.”

    Speaking out for Main Street conscientious objectors and other Vaxx-Realists is Trump’s proven track record.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-congress-rehire-military-members-let-go-over-vaccine-2022-1

    (2) https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-covid-19-vaccines-030700385.html

  648. Don’t care how many tens or even hundreds of billions the US may have spent arming the Ukrainians with advanced military tech. The Russians going old school and somehow finding one of Medusa’s sisters to send to the US was absolutely uncalled for!

  649. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    In the church where I was baptized and confirmed it was a big hub bub when some of the members wanted to splurge some of the surplus on stained glass windows. Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry. Protestant fanatics in 30 Years War time went through churches in Germany with sledge hammers and axes and destroyed art work which has got to be a billion dollars in 2020 fake money.

    My guess is nobody in 95% denominations cares about this today. I certainly do not. But we do not have crucifixes. They did buy the new stained glass windows. One side of the church was scenes from Old T--Garden Eden, Noah's Ark, &c. The other side of the church was scenes from New T--Manger, Sermon Mount, &c. No depictions of Passion or Resurrection or Ascension. All the Jesuses were small and unobtrusive and it was hard to tell he was the focus of the scene as best as I can recall although it has been a few years since I have been inside that building.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

    Those that complain about embellishing the House of the Lord, remind me of Judas Iscariot who complained about the “wasted money” used to buy the ultra expensive nard that Mary used when she washed the feet of Jesus. Would the money saved by not buying the new stained glass windows be better used to help the poor, or would the money have languished in a 10 year CD paying 4% interest, only to be turned over once again in another 10 years? Although the adoration of a church structure with expensive works of art, icons, gold leafed bible, jewel encrusted chalice or censor etc, should never be the sole purpose of maintaining a church building, the inclusion of such items based on a true reverence and love of the Lord only brings honor to His name and His ability to change peoples’ lives. People dress up in their finest when attending church services (at least they used to0. 🙂 ), try to maintain their own homes in the newest and best styles, so shouldn’t the House of the Lord reflect their generosity and love for the Lord too?
    The beauriful Assumpton Cathedral, Pecherska Lavra, Kyiv Ukraine

    The Ukrainian church derived its inspiration from the Greek church, embellishing it to heavenly measures!

  650. @Barbarossa
    @songbird


    but I am left with the inescapable fact that lately I have been disgusted by the taste of deep-fried french fries, and begun to believe baked ones are superior in every way. I think baked win on taste, especially if you use seasonings.
     
    Not to sound like a lard salesman but potatoes are one thing that lard is perfect for. I like french fries chunky cut and baked with lard. I prefer doing some good steak seasoning or garlic, salt, and paprika on them while they bake. The lard really crisps them up and adds to the flavor.

    I'll disagree with you on salad though. A well done salad can be a great meal. If you are really a skeptic, try the one I did up for the crew at a jobsite a few months ago. Romaine lettuce, red onion, tomato, and broccoli, cubed up extra sharp chedder, along with hot and crispy chopped leftover chicken and french fries and topped with either a good Italian or creamy Ceasar dressing. It's pretty legit.

    Replies: @songbird

    I like french fries chunky cut and baked with lard.

    Is that something like roast potatoes (i.e. potatoes cooked with roast beef to stew in the juices)? I confess to a fear of lard, for fear of having a heart attack. Maybe, that is overblown? But I don’t know…

    A well done salad can be a great meal. If you are really a skeptic, try the one I did up for the crew at a jobsite a few months ago. Romaine lettuce, red onion, tomato, and broccoli, cubed up extra sharp chedder, along with hot and crispy chopped leftover chicken and french fries and topped with either a good Italian or creamy Ceasar dressing.

    I’m not averse to mixing a few vegetables in my meat and potatoes, but, to me, the dressing is actually the worst part of a salad. Granted it probably won’t give you a parasitic infection like the lettuce can, if it is grown with nightsoil or contaminated with runoff, but still I don’t like the taste at all.

  651. @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    ...idolatry ban is void, because as long as you can somehow connect your idol with God, it is all ok.
     
    When it comes to faith in God all bans are temporary, open to interpretation, and so ultimately void. The evolution of human belief in divinity (over tens of thousands of years) repeats in a closed mental circle - the situation is inherently simple.

    What is complex is how people perceive it, elaborate, try to simplify or control - the complexity is in us and always will be. The rules, prescriptions, rituals and bans change over time. They often go back and revisit the previous ones - but the existence of a simple faith remains. That is the original meaning of miracle: the uncontrollable act of faith in something divine, in something beyond nature.

    Some people need idols, like they use binoculars in an opera, or maybe because it makes them feel better, gives them joy. Denouncing it is foolish - there is no purity in faith, people choose to believe the way they want to.

    The obsession with monotheism is similarly unnatural and not enforceable - if there is a 'single' god, why wouldn't there be more? So we get trinity, saints, etc...People who insist on God being the ultimate good are introducing the concept of a Satan, atheists are always collapsing into the absurd - like a chess game with a permanent zugzwang...but those are all our choices :)...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    My point was not about idolatry per se but about hypocrites, namely polytheists pretending to be monotheists. If you want to worship Magna Mater, or Artemis, or Baal – ok, just do it in open. But what is really unpleasant is the feeling that things are not what they are said to be, the feeling which nowadays permeates not just religions, but entire cultures.

    At the beginning of Christianity there was a conflict between Paulian Christians and Judeochristians. Why this conflict? Why simply not two religions? And I must say it is mostly polytheists who try to subvert monotheism, and not vice versa – monotheists subverting polytheists.
    The same is with rabbinic Judaism, which is covert polytheism in its Kabbalistic form, with Shekina being a form of the Great Goddess there.

    I cannot really agree that religion is just externalization of some innate human tendencies since even polytheists are pretty strict, for example by insisting on some great female deity, be it Holy Mary or Shekina/Rachel in Judaism, or Fatima in Shi’a Islam (often compared to Mary). The ingenious cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is marginal after all.

    If those innate human tendencies are somehow restricted in their propositions, that leads naturally to the monotheism proposition again. In a way, Satan is also monotheist, as he strives to rule the Earth.

  652. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    data emerging between.. feminist beliefs.. motherhood is a patriarchal
     
    Maybe. But these views connecting more abstract themes to ordinary life, look sometimes like a "Rorschach test" for journalists.

    Some people are writing "Western Europe has low fertility because they are liberal feminists" and also "Iran has low fertility because they anti-liberal anti-feminists". "Italy has low fertility because of high unemployment", but "Japan has low fertility because they work too much".

    Someone who dislikes feminism, will probably say (if they believe low fertility is bad) low fertility is because of feminism. Someone who likes feminism will probably say it is because there is not enough support for women.

    Those explanations are a "Rorschach test", are giving information more about preferences of person who writes the views, instead of signal in a scatter plot's noise.

    -

    In general, also in this forum, people seem to be obsessed with that kind of themes, without seeing the type of life is much more significant.

    For example, people who argue two opposite views against each other in an internet forum, are likely far more similar to each other than to anyone who doesn't write in an internet forum. We know the type of life in that time is the same - they are writing on a keyboard in the forum, having almost the same experience.


    LGBTQ+ ones, where sex and romance are strongly divorced from procreation.

     

    You would assume a real level of LGBT preference is always the same in history as LGBT is not superficial, but inbuilt preference of a person. It's visibility of the sexual minority which is changing with different culture or different historical epoch.

    When the visibility is lower then fertility rate of LGBT people would be higher (i.e. homosexual men and women will be marrying women and men, instead of men and women).

    So, now the visibility of sexual minority people increases in the Western context, you would expect natality would decrease for this proportion of the population.

    But then in the future, natality of the open sexual minority people would be higher in context where they have income or culture acceptance for "assisted fertility". So, perhaps it could be like inverted-u shape of the LGBT visibility and natality, where LGBT natality will increase from the bottom of the inverted-u.


    pro-natalist traditionalists (at least in Europe) seems too small for it to be straightforwardly manufactured
     
    The only couple I know in personal life who have already 4 children, are leftwing vegetarians, with political views like "eat organic food", "we are destroying the ecology".

    It's kind of predictable, people who would think a contraception is "unnatural", will have more children, because they are directly avoiding to use contraception. It's direct causal mechanism ("contraception is bad") which has the influence, not more abstract views (i.e. "left vs. right").


    I was mainly thinking about Africa and the Islamic world,
     
    Surely, we all would guess it shouldn't go so low, because their economic and historical modernization is so much lower.

    But then there are now those crazy counter-examples like Iran, which has now lower fertility rate than France and Ireland. Or Bangladesh, where economic level is third world, but the fertility rate is the same as Western Europe.

    So I doubt anyone can predict what will be the result in this question. Although the main reality we know is falling from high levels to more medium levels in the third world (e.g. Africa https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa).

    Replies: @Yahya

    Yo Dmitry,

    [MORE]

    I will be visiting London from 11-15 December with 4 other friends. I think you live in London and are roughly around my age group (mid-20s)? If so, let me know if you’d like to hang. This is my email: [email protected]

    But I understand if you don’t want to reveal your offline persona. I am hesitant too but figure this probably one of only chance to meet someone from Unz.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Thanks. I won't say which country (countries) I work. I would talk about vacation places though. I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer. Which areas are you planning to visit? Have you any plans for its best restaurants? There will be some nice places.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church, or at least reported for interrogation to the Mormon officers that guard the holy places of Salt Lake City.

    From his comments, AP implies like he is an extroverted and friendly person, at least if you avoided any political comments or debates with him. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yahya, @Mikel

  653. @AP
    @Dmitry

    This is all very interesting, thank you.


    My grandparents also like to grow sunflowers. They are from many degrees North East of the black earth. Most gardeners and children grow sunflowers.

    But it has “national connotation” as symbol for Ukraine and Kuban because the Soviet government has selected it as symbol
     
    Maybe Soviets spread this in their territory while simultaneously sunflowers were also being celebrated by Ukrainians without any Soviet links. Here is a poem by Galician writer Ivan Franko, written in 1889, about sunflowers:

    http://poetyka.uazone.net/default/pages.phtml?place=franko&page=zversh65

    At least in America, Ukrainians (those with no connection to the Soviets) seem to plant and use sunflowers as decorations much more than Americans do.

    In this war, the sunflower has become a symbol of soldiers.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    Ukrainians (those with no connection to the Soviets) seem to plant and use sunflowers as decorations

    And in Russia as sunflowers were the dominant flower in that time. People were using the flower which they have available, especially poorer people who do not have additional land to grow separate decorative flowers, or an English garden for growing thousands of exotic types of notedible flowers.

    Although in the beginning, sunflowers would be mixed with other agriculture. In the literature, it’s describes sunflowers usually mixed with other plants near the village.

    This situation where sunflowers becomes like a monoculture with complete fields seems something created in first half of the 20th century. Some people are actually negatively writing in the 1930s, how sunflowers are conquering the country.

    a poem by Galician writer Ivan Franko, written in 1889, about sunflowers:

    1889. I guess sunflower is the spirit of the age. Van Gogh most famous painting, the sunflowers is painted this same year 1888/1889.

    You can see poems about sunflowers were earlier in Western Europe though in comparison to the Russian empire. For example, the poem by William Blake about the sunflower is 1794. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_Sun-flower (In Russian literature, nothing about sunflowers before the second half of the 19th century and then it is not viewed as such a poetic flower.)

    In this war, the sunflower has become a symbol of soldiers.

    Unfortunate we live in a year where our region is even more extreme political dystopia than normally and arguing about sunflowers is related to nightmare wars and conflict of intelligence agencies. E.g. Even (opposing Putin) Kasparov or Ponomarev to use this symbolism to support Ukraine, creates articles of paranoia. https://ru.espreso.tv/operatsiya-podsolnukh-kak-rossiyane-kradut-simvol-solidarnosti-s-ukrainoy-dlya-khoroshikh-russkikh

    • Agree: AP
  654. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    In the church where I was baptized and confirmed it was a big hub bub when some of the members wanted to splurge some of the surplus on stained glass windows. Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry. Protestant fanatics in 30 Years War time went through churches in Germany with sledge hammers and axes and destroyed art work which has got to be a billion dollars in 2020 fake money.

    My guess is nobody in 95% denominations cares about this today. I certainly do not. But we do not have crucifixes. They did buy the new stained glass windows. One side of the church was scenes from Old T--Garden Eden, Noah's Ark, &c. The other side of the church was scenes from New T--Manger, Sermon Mount, &c. No depictions of Passion or Resurrection or Ascension. All the Jesuses were small and unobtrusive and it was hard to tell he was the focus of the scene as best as I can recall although it has been a few years since I have been inside that building.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament. But because I had no questions (see my comment no. 640 here) it didn’t impress me. Nevertheless, for some time when someone did something wrong, I used to bring a religious aspect to it, like “You broke the 8th commendment”. People disliked it. I realized that for the most people, Church is really just a building whose rules end behind its door. You can see it during the current war: I am surprised that on neither side there is religious opposition, even dissident one. Where are priests preaching that Ukrainians/Russians are humans too and we should not kill them?

    But what people really disliked is when I told them that their negation of sin may bring them eternal condemnation (“how do you know this sin of yours is not the one which will send you to hell”)… I realized that what Catholics fear the most is that there is no forgiveness, and that judgment may be for real, and not just to scare them into the arms of the ever-forgiving Christ, unfortunately shadowed in the distance by the strict God of the Old Testament. If you heard ordinary Catholics talking about why they do not like Protestants – because they are so “dark” and talk about “condemnation” – you realize this is true.

    So I learnt that the most people apparently just want eternal slack and eternal forgiveness. In other words, they want religion which will accommodate their natural tendencies. Of which Catholicism is pretty good example anyway, and Orthodoxy as well. Nevertheless, most of that stuff is not in the Scripture.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Much of what is in the canon can be dismissed as busy work for priests and theologians if you are in a hurry. The other day I had some evangelists at my door. I gave them my ready 3X5 card and sent them on their way.

    John 8:7
    Romans 3:28
    1 John 4:2
    Matthew 6:9-13

    That doesn't cover everything but at Pareto .8 you are now covered buddy.

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament.
     
    Read the Old Testament, too. Skip the most boring parts (like X begat Y, etc., which Jews use to calculate the age of the world), but read most of it. It’s a remarkable collection of books. Of course, you can tell that some writers were talented people, while others were not (to put it charitably). Still, it’s all interesting as a quasi-historic document, while some parts (e.g., Ecclesiastes) are among the highest achievements of human literature. Also, you get proper perspective on old farts’ habit of saying that people are no longer as good as they used to be: you’ll find that old farts were saying exact same thing millennia ago.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  655. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    “God doesn’t need, but humans can be helped. That is a big difference.”

    That would mean that humans have some serious problem when directing their thoughts to God

     

    You deny that humans are imperfect and can have all sorts of problems?

    “This was the equivalent of going to the opera and complaining that a lot of people look “at” binoculars rather than at the stage. Sorry, that is silly.”

    If people need binoculars to approach God, then God must have done some serious mistakes in His earlier communications with them
     

    People do not need “binoculars” to approach God but many find them to be very helpful. Likewise at the opera.

    Iconoclasm is not just Islamic, but belonged to the early Church”
    When the early Church did not use holy images
     
    Icons appeared as soon as Christians were able to build churches; the first churches and places used for worship by Christians included icons.

    it was just the Third Commandment
     
    Icons do not take the Lord’s name in vain.

    Moreover, in the Byzantine empire iconoclasm was born in the areas associated with the earliest Christianity (besides Palestine): borderlands of Syria and Turkey

     

    In other words, the places with most contact with Muslims.

    Interestingly, the periods of iconoclasm in Byzantium are also associated with its military successes against Arabs, whereas periods of iconodulism are marred by defeats of Byzantium by Muslims

     

    Byzantium at its peaks such as under Justinian and Basil II venerated icons.

    Maybe God has spoken on what He likes…

     

    Well, ultimately most of the Islamic lands came to be controlled by Orthodox, Catholics or Anglicans. Jews, who oppose icons, haven’t done great historically either.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I mistook the Second Commandment for the Third One, because I originally learnt Commandments in Poland, and they apparently skipped the Second one in favour of splitting the last one into two. Very strange. This is why I couldn’t clearly say which is which. It must be those covert pagans…. they want everyone to be an idolater in Poland!
    See yourself:

    http://aos-pl.org/?q=node/54

    https://www.biblijni.pl/modlitwy/7_dziesiec_przykazan.html

    The early Christians did not venerate icons even though they did some rudimentary images. The cult of icons followed the cult of martyrs which naturally followed the period of persecutions.

    As for Byzantium, I meant Leo III and Isaurian/Syrian dynasty, successfully opposing Umayyads. Justinian the Great did not fight Muslims. Unfortunately, iconoclasm was ended by this woman, who even claimed to be the empress in her own right !
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_of_Athens

    You can see that he comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar (after Constantinople district) which rules the Constantinople patriarchate until today, probably descendants of Minoan Greeks since the Byzantine double eagle in some interpretations represents labrys, very tellingly a symbol of feminism too. You can also see typical modus operandi of covert Great Goddess followers: marrying into family to take it over, a belief in female sovereignty up to being a monarch on her own: for this reason, she killed her own son (in other words, the importance of female bloodline), iconodulism.

    Interestingly, the merchants tried to do the same in Poland with Bona Sforza: in terms of her (female) bloodline, they hold the Polish throne up to Jan Casimir Vasa. Sforza coat of arms brings to us the image which can only be interpreted with the help of Genesis 3:15: the serpent tries to eat the man starting from his feet. As you can see, the other element is the imperial eagle – correctly, despite the fact that Milan was Guelph city, since Sforzas originally came from Ravenna, which was the old Byzantine possession in Italy. They could even have real Greek origins, since many Byzantines immigrated to Italy.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Should be:

    "You can see that she comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar"

    Instead of:

    "You can see that he comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar"

  656. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    I mistook the Second Commandment for the Third One, because I originally learnt Commandments in Poland, and they apparently skipped the Second one in favour of splitting the last one into two. Very strange. This is why I couldn't clearly say which is which. It must be those covert pagans.... they want everyone to be an idolater in Poland!
    See yourself:

    http://aos-pl.org/?q=node/54

    https://www.biblijni.pl/modlitwy/7_dziesiec_przykazan.html

    The early Christians did not venerate icons even though they did some rudimentary images. The cult of icons followed the cult of martyrs which naturally followed the period of persecutions.

    As for Byzantium, I meant Leo III and Isaurian/Syrian dynasty, successfully opposing Umayyads. Justinian the Great did not fight Muslims. Unfortunately, iconoclasm was ended by this woman, who even claimed to be the empress in her own right !
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_of_Athens

    You can see that he comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar (after Constantinople district) which rules the Constantinople patriarchate until today, probably descendants of Minoan Greeks since the Byzantine double eagle in some interpretations represents labrys, very tellingly a symbol of feminism too. You can also see typical modus operandi of covert Great Goddess followers: marrying into family to take it over, a belief in female sovereignty up to being a monarch on her own: for this reason, she killed her own son (in other words, the importance of female bloodline), iconodulism.

    Interestingly, the merchants tried to do the same in Poland with Bona Sforza: in terms of her (female) bloodline, they hold the Polish throne up to Jan Casimir Vasa. Sforza coat of arms brings to us the image which can only be interpreted with the help of Genesis 3:15: the serpent tries to eat the man starting from his feet. As you can see, the other element is the imperial eagle - correctly, despite the fact that Milan was Guelph city, since Sforzas originally came from Ravenna, which was the old Byzantine possession in Italy. They could even have real Greek origins, since many Byzantines immigrated to Italy.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Coat_of_arms_of_the_House_of_Sforza.svg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Should be:

    “You can see that she comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar”

    Instead of:

    “You can see that he comes from the rich Greek merchant class, so called Phanar”

  657. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Well, no, because it leads to contradicting the negative Commandments 2, 3. Plus, there is no positive commandment “you shall worship my incarnate form”.
     
    Given that Christ inspired those commandments in the first place, and is their fulfillment, what reason is there to prioritise them over him? And knowing Christ is God, would a specific commandment be needed to worship the incarnation?

    Moreover, incarnate form disappeared long time ago...
     
    He ascended bodily into heaven, but did his incarnate form disappear from existence? Is it not present whenever the Eucharist miracle takes place?

    In a way, it is meaningless, because since the entire world is the creation of God, in this way we should worship Nature and every tree too.

     

    This seems to be a failure to grasp core Christian belief about the incarnation, that Christ was fully God and fully man, and appeals to a more Jewish or Islamic idea of God's necessary transcendence.


    Upon the simple fact that Mary was a mother of Christ...
     
    And Christ was God the Son, so Mary was mother of God the Son when he entered the world, God the Son grew in her womb, she suckled God the Son and so on. These things follow from the belief that Christ was wholly God and wholly man at the same time.

    Marian tradition is easily understandable in the light of this; that God would not choose an ordinary person as the means for his incarnation; that proximity to God of this kind would not leave a person unaffected.


    which in the end put Mary higher than God – since apparently God is unable to deny Mary anything
     
    Mary's perfection comes from her perfect conformity to the will of God; otherwise this just looks like misrepresentation.

    Unlike the cult of Jesus and God the Father, the cult of Mary is very localized
     
    No it isn't. You are talking about apparition sites here, not veneration of Mary in general.

    ...who has more churches dedicated to herself than her Son the God or all other saints
     
    Churches are mostly dedicated to the memory of saints and Mary is the greatest saint.

    You can notice these three archetypes in the form of Mary too: a mother, a virgin, and a lover (as Mary Magdalene).
     
    Mary Magdalene reference doesn't seem relevant apart from the fact that Mary Magdalene was a woman, so was Mary the Mother of God and those Greek and Roman deities are likely to be based on experience of aspects of female human nature. There seems nothing surprising in the fact that womanhood and motherhood has always been important to humans.

    But female human nature is a creation of God and bears the Imago Dei, and Mary is held to be the most perfect and fully realised example of it.

    Her popular titulature, “Our Lady”...
     

    'My lady' is an honorific term of address for women, you also find this honorific in Latin languages used much more frequently (c.f. madame, dona...) and this is probably the inspiration for its use in relation to the Queen of Heaven, as opposed to the somewhat paranoid antiquarian one proposed.

    I mean, for a neutral observer...
     

    Is there such a thing? You don't fully come across as one.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Marian tradition

    This is logical theology to derive that she was holy, although you have to add that, we can’t say motivation is only logic. It was also one of the most popular features they later added to the religion, that was popular in the pre-existing religions. There is integration of one of the most popular local customs and religions of new nationalities joining the Christian community in the Roman empire in the second century.

    On the other hand, adding new component of Marian worship to the religion, creates contradictions to original teaching of Jesus and the emphasis of the New Testament.

    There is partly logical derivation of theology. Why would god choose Mary, if she was not a holy woman? Logically, she should be the most holy woman of the time of birth. But it is also adding one of the most popular worships of mother gods that already exists in the new markets and nationalities Christianity spread to in the centuries after Jesus has died.

    It’s difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to “pagan” religions of people who later develop it.

    So, logically Mary should be the most holy human woman, according to logical theology which is developed from the Bible. But then there is contradictions to texts they inherit, why Mary not important in the New Testament.

    She is one of less important people in the Gospels, so sometimes she is part of scenes, where she is refered without name. And this is also matching important evangelical teaching of Jesus, where he says often your family is not important, but the connection you often need to abandon when you join the heavenly community.

    In the oldest source gospel of Mark which is base of later Gospels (Mark is base text which the later Gospels are deriving), the only reference to his mother, when Jesus says, his family is not important and she is not his mother.

    This is when Jesus is first becoming famous in Galilee. They discuss as significant people coming even from Southern Lebanon (Tyre and Sidon), which is 60 kilometers walk, to listen to him.

    But because he is becoming famous, his family want control of Jesus, as they think he is crazy. Nowadays, they might have asked the local medical authority to control him, like the family of Britney Spears. His brother and mother are apparently traveling over 20 kilometers (from Nazareth to Sea of Galilee) for this.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+3%3A20-35&version=NIV

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary “this world community and family” and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It’s an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.

    There is also in John, the first miracle Jesus is converting water to wine, seen by his mother. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202&version=NIV This is not in Mark, although it would be later in the career of Jesus if you tried to match the narratives.

    Mary the Mother of God and those Greek and Roman deities are likely

    It is very popular introduction to the religion according to human nature as most people love their mothers since their first conscious existence. However, to emphasize this is opposed to culture of the first century in Judea and Galliee and the early part of the religion, including views of Jesus.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.

    But it is emotionally a part of Christianity which is most accessible for new cultures and was until recently most popular aspect in regions like Italy.

    I posted before in discussion with Coconut about the church of Annunciation.

    [MORE]
    In the church, they add painting from every culture of Mary. (There are many also inside the church).

    There is the Ukrainian Mary for the Ukrainian artists, Chinese Mary for the Chinese artists, African Mary. Love of mother, is the most accessible or universal part to be included in the religion and people can match to their own life.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It’s difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to “pagan” religions of people who later develop it.
     
    Iirc, isn't this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT.

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary “this world community and family” and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It’s an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.
     

    This is present in Mark, but it struck me it is not a complete portrayal of what kind of teachings Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus' relations with his father, which go in the other direction to this. I checked Mark's Gospel and I think the impression I got was right.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.
     
    I am not sure what your reconstruction of this 'original religion' involves and what sources it comes from but I have been intrigued by it since we started discussing these topics. Protestants, for example, have spiritual and theological reasons for adopting a strongly historicist approach (e.g. like TULIP for Calvinists), but if it is just a question of accurately describing things that were believed at particular times, why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

  658. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament. But because I had no questions (see my comment no. 640 here) it didn't impress me. Nevertheless, for some time when someone did something wrong, I used to bring a religious aspect to it, like "You broke the 8th commendment". People disliked it. I realized that for the most people, Church is really just a building whose rules end behind its door. You can see it during the current war: I am surprised that on neither side there is religious opposition, even dissident one. Where are priests preaching that Ukrainians/Russians are humans too and we should not kill them?

    But what people really disliked is when I told them that their negation of sin may bring them eternal condemnation ("how do you know this sin of yours is not the one which will send you to hell")... I realized that what Catholics fear the most is that there is no forgiveness, and that judgment may be for real, and not just to scare them into the arms of the ever-forgiving Christ, unfortunately shadowed in the distance by the strict God of the Old Testament. If you heard ordinary Catholics talking about why they do not like Protestants - because they are so "dark" and talk about "condemnation" - you realize this is true.

    So I learnt that the most people apparently just want eternal slack and eternal forgiveness. In other words, they want religion which will accommodate their natural tendencies. Of which Catholicism is pretty good example anyway, and Orthodoxy as well. Nevertheless, most of that stuff is not in the Scripture.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    Much of what is in the canon can be dismissed as busy work for priests and theologians if you are in a hurry. The other day I had some evangelists at my door. I gave them my ready 3X5 card and sent them on their way.

    John 8:7
    Romans 3:28
    1 John 4:2
    Matthew 6:9-13

    That doesn’t cover everything but at Pareto .8 you are now covered buddy.

    • Thanks: keypusher
  659. @Yahya
    @Dmitry

    Yo Dmitry,

    I will be visiting London from 11-15 December with 4 other friends. I think you live in London and are roughly around my age group (mid-20s)? If so, let me know if you’d like to hang. This is my email: [email protected]

    But I understand if you don’t want to reveal your offline persona. I am hesitant too but figure this probably one of only chance to meet someone from Unz.

    Peace.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    [MORE]

    Thanks. I won’t say which country (countries) I work. I would talk about vacation places though. I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer. Which areas are you planning to visit? Have you any plans for its best restaurants? There will be some nice places.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church, or at least reported for interrogation to the Mormon officers that guard the holy places of Salt Lake City.

    From his comments, AP implies like he is an extroverted and friendly person, at least if you avoided any political comments or debates with him. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    AP extroverted and friendly person. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.
     
    I'm also sure he just wants to talk about his music collection and isn't secretly planning to kill you with a dried sunflower stalk. It would not be likely for a person who choose such kind of friendly name like "Mr Hack".

    And AP is a friendly hobbyist, procrastinating from work. Unless you imagine he will remember comments we said about Ukraine while writing a report for his cousin at the SBU, "List of enemies of the Ukrainian nation from internet forums".

    , @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer.
     
    Yes I have visited many times before, though usually with family. This time I’m going with friends so it is more exciting.



    I’m currently in Paris, just arrived today. Will stay for 2 more days before heading for London. We went to a nice Italian restaurant recommended by our hotel receptionist. It is called Pendino.

    Previously when I had been to Paris I went to 5-star Michelin restaurants and the like. Absolutely detested it. I was once talking to a Chinese friend of mine from college and we were mocking how long it takes for the food to come and the minuscule portions served in these restaurants. Didn’t really like the food either.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow. More reliable and consistent IMO. The high-brow stuff are always at risk of pretension and absurdity.

    We aren’t too sophisticated so we don’t have anything planned in mind. Just asking random recommendations and searching stuff online as we go along.

    I don’t have time to visit the traditional touristic monuments in Paris or London, the stay is too short. Besides I have already been to most of them before.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    LOL. AP, Mr. Hack and Mikel are in the US so I probably cannot meet them. Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age, which is perhaps workable in a forum but will cause awkwardness face to face. It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    , @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    So what? Visiting Utah and meeting a fellow blog commenter in real life would still make it worth it. I would even welcome Sher Singh to my house. I know that he wants to rape my wife and kill my son but I wouldn't be too worried, I'd just make him keep a safe distance while enjoying the conversation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Sher Singh

  660. I’d really like to see some man-on-the-street interviews in Japan, where they ask young people where they would like to go, and then (being ready for the common answers) show them clips of that area. Finally, asking them, “Is that how you imagined it?” And “Would you still like to go there?”

    I’d also watch a show where they showed clips of certain neighborhoods in certain European cities and then asked the Japanese, “Algeria or France?”, “Nigeria or Ireland?”, “London or Karachi?”

  661. china-russia-all-the-way says:

    Undeterred by winter, migrants from the Middle East are still arriving in Lithuania via Belarus.

    Polish/Baltic higher education subservient to the influence of the EU and US produce upper middle class women who support migrants including this girl who risked it all to volunteer and smuggle migrants across the border.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    I don't blame Belarus for letting them pass through..... Turkey is hypocritical though since they are a NATO nation.

  662. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Thanks. I won't say which country (countries) I work. I would talk about vacation places though. I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer. Which areas are you planning to visit? Have you any plans for its best restaurants? There will be some nice places.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church, or at least reported for interrogation to the Mormon officers that guard the holy places of Salt Lake City.

    From his comments, AP implies like he is an extroverted and friendly person, at least if you avoided any political comments or debates with him. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yahya, @Mikel

    AP extroverted and friendly person. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.

    I’m also sure he just wants to talk about his music collection and isn’t secretly planning to kill you with a dried sunflower stalk. It would not be likely for a person who choose such kind of friendly name like “Mr Hack”.

    And AP is a friendly hobbyist, procrastinating from work. Unless you imagine he will remember comments we said about Ukraine while writing a report for his cousin at the SBU, “List of enemies of the Ukrainian nation from internet forums”.

    • LOL: Barbarossa
  663. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Thanks. I won't say which country (countries) I work. I would talk about vacation places though. I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer. Which areas are you planning to visit? Have you any plans for its best restaurants? There will be some nice places.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church, or at least reported for interrogation to the Mormon officers that guard the holy places of Salt Lake City.

    From his comments, AP implies like he is an extroverted and friendly person, at least if you avoided any political comments or debates with him. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yahya, @Mikel

    I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer.

    Yes I have visited many times before, though usually with family. This time I’m going with friends so it is more exciting.

    [MORE]

    I’m currently in Paris, just arrived today. Will stay for 2 more days before heading for London. We went to a nice Italian restaurant recommended by our hotel receptionist. It is called Pendino.

    Previously when I had been to Paris I went to 5-star Michelin restaurants and the like. Absolutely detested it. I was once talking to a Chinese friend of mine from college and we were mocking how long it takes for the food to come and the minuscule portions served in these restaurants. Didn’t really like the food either.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow. More reliable and consistent IMO. The high-brow stuff are always at risk of pretension and absurdity.

    We aren’t too sophisticated so we don’t have anything planned in mind. Just asking random recommendations and searching stuff online as we go along.

    I don’t have time to visit the traditional touristic monuments in Paris or London, the stay is too short. Besides I have already been to most of them before.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church

    LOL. AP, Mr. Hack and Mikel are in the US so I probably cannot meet them. Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age, which is perhaps workable in a forum but will cause awkwardness face to face. It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Yahya


    but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.
     
    I think in some regard that this is a consequence of rigid age separation in education. It seems to make for what is really a strangely rigid preference in many for their own age cohort.

    I was home schooled and my own kids are as well and while many people always talk about being concerned with socialization, I think it can be superior in that regard. My own experience, observation of other home schoolers, and my own kids seems to demonstrate a much lower age group preference. Personally I enjoy talking and socializing with people of any age group pretty equally and don't even register a real "generational divide". My own kids are very much at home with either younger kids or much older adults, but of course their playmates are most generally close in age.

    So, I feel that a strong peer age preference in adulthood is more socially conditioned than anything.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya

    I remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music...
    Well, it is possible I will be able to listen live since with the end of February I am preparing to visit Egypt. Besides usual highlights of Egypt, I hope to spend some time in Alexandria and Cairo, maybe see Al-Azhar too, and taste some good music and food besides ancient & Coptic antiquities. I will be glad to meet anyway ;)

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now? I heard there are many in Turkey. Is the war dominating their thoughts? Since Russiand do not come to Poland (and if so, they pretend to be not Russians) anymore, I do not know. Just asking, since I would prefer to avoid any war-related quarrels.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age
     
    I had impression AP is not what people call "young man", but let's say he could be in first half of his life. Anyone in the first half of life, should be called a young man. But sure he sometimes likes to argue against us using depressing "prematurely elderly man" politics, with pensioners' kind of opinion. For example, when he posting those maps about how we should all hate the Eastern Ukrainians. But the indicators in the map are often indicating Eastern Ukrainians are more fun people than Western Ukrainians. It is like the things grandfathers would use to argue why the Soviet Union was better. But my impression when I see those debates, is to feel like the Eastern Ukrainian culture are more sympathetic than Western Ukrainians.

    On the other hand, AP was admiring Boris Johnson's more exciting lifestyle, where he doesn't know how many children he has. So perhaps he is not so boring as he pretends.

    I wonder Mr Hack might be much older. But he seems more a hippy with "young man's" views.


    It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

     

    Although maybe I am too much in corporate life, where we are mixed up ages, but among us, the older people want to "party of all night" and the younger people usually want to go home early.

    I have visited many times before,
     
    I like visiting Paris and London if I can find an opportunity. But I usually visit in summer. For Paris, maybe winter is better as it is a bit less crowded with tourists.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been
     
    In London there is "Tosca", which is a very popular opera. https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/tosca-by-jonathan-kent-dates

    In Paris, there is "Marriage of Figaro", a bit less recommended. https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-22-23/opera/le-nozze-di-figaro

    I'm not fan of ballet but there is "Swan Lake" in Paris now which is probably the most popular ballet with its famous music. https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-22-23/ballet/swan-lake


    imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners
     
    Price for those things is varying more with the position of the seats. If the acoustics are well designed (which is not usually in old concert halls), you can go to the worse position of seats for cheaper prices and it should sound good though. Though concert halls in London and Paris mainly are not famous for acoustics.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow.
     
    My restaurant preference is more like lowbrow Chinese or Middle Eastern food. I was just watching YouTuber talking about the cheap food in Cairo.

    But middlebrow style of food of English/Irish restaurants is very good. It would be usually heavy food though.

    For heavy local style food London, in the $50-100 budget go to those below. They have many branches
    https://thehawksmoor.com/locations/airstreet/food/lunch-dinner/
    https://theblacklock.com/menus/
    Or if you can more than $100 budget
    https://www.sophiessteakhouse.com/soho

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  664. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament. But because I had no questions (see my comment no. 640 here) it didn't impress me. Nevertheless, for some time when someone did something wrong, I used to bring a religious aspect to it, like "You broke the 8th commendment". People disliked it. I realized that for the most people, Church is really just a building whose rules end behind its door. You can see it during the current war: I am surprised that on neither side there is religious opposition, even dissident one. Where are priests preaching that Ukrainians/Russians are humans too and we should not kill them?

    But what people really disliked is when I told them that their negation of sin may bring them eternal condemnation ("how do you know this sin of yours is not the one which will send you to hell")... I realized that what Catholics fear the most is that there is no forgiveness, and that judgment may be for real, and not just to scare them into the arms of the ever-forgiving Christ, unfortunately shadowed in the distance by the strict God of the Old Testament. If you heard ordinary Catholics talking about why they do not like Protestants - because they are so "dark" and talk about "condemnation" - you realize this is true.

    So I learnt that the most people apparently just want eternal slack and eternal forgiveness. In other words, they want religion which will accommodate their natural tendencies. Of which Catholicism is pretty good example anyway, and Orthodoxy as well. Nevertheless, most of that stuff is not in the Scripture.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament.

    Read the Old Testament, too. Skip the most boring parts (like X begat Y, etc., which Jews use to calculate the age of the world), but read most of it. It’s a remarkable collection of books. Of course, you can tell that some writers were talented people, while others were not (to put it charitably). Still, it’s all interesting as a quasi-historic document, while some parts (e.g., Ecclesiastes) are among the highest achievements of human literature. Also, you get proper perspective on old farts’ habit of saying that people are no longer as good as they used to be: you’ll find that old farts were saying exact same thing millennia ago.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    I have read the Old Testament during pandemics, and the New Testament again. And I must say, the Old Testament is much better, despite its not-too-good-fame, my catechete in school always advised us to read NT but never OT. But you get a feeling of real struggle between God and Satan there, which again leads to the sense of the reality of entire thing. It is Universe full of history; you cannot say that about the New one, which is just a simple story in comparison. Unlike the New One, The Old Testament very rarely calls you to "believe in something", which again conveys the sense of real: no need to believe in what is real. The Torah, historical books and then prophetic ones are the best part IMHO. On the other hand, reading everything one realizes how out of place books like "Song of Songs" are in this context; I now entertain the idea of Satanic verses or even Satanic books (Book of Esther is another candidate of mine) as quite credible.

    And now, I am preparing to read Quran - from beginning to end.

    Reading OT, one also realizes that very small part of the Book is read in Church during the liturgical year. I swear, these large liturgical books on the pulpit with readings must be made to create the false conviction that the entire Bible is read during the year (I once believed it as a young person haha).

    I like the small details like this in this description of mini-Sodom within Israel, namely Benjaminite Ghibea:

    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

    Interestingly, this is largely true: there is higher incidence of left-handedness among gays than straights. Is this the reason why black magic is sometimes called the Path of the Left Hand...?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @keypusher

  665. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Even if God has a physical face, only those who saw it should paint it. That limits us to maybe Adam, Noah, Enoch, maybe Moses, Ezekiel; their paintings were neither saved nor reproduced: case closed. On surface, this need for painting gods could be harmless if it served curiosity and need of knowledge only. Unfortunately, images are created - not least icons - which are later worshipped (because how can you not worship God, ha?). Step by step, it leads to idolatry. I agree.

    But the point is that according to the official description of the job (ikonopisiec) one writes icons, not paints them. Typical kabbalistic-gnostic manipulation of names: not a thing, but a name of it is important.

    Additionally, by pretending that you write pictures, you create new layers of meanings - since icons disclose God, don't they? - and open doors for heresy. The cult of Mary could not exist without her pictures, as there is very weak scriptural ground for it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @A123, @AP, @AnonfromTN

    one writes icons, not paints them.

    It depends on the language. Say, in Russian the same verb is used for writing and painting pictures (писать), whereas in English and many other European languages two different words are used.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    Well, in Poland, the Polish Orthodox do insist they "write" icons; I guess it evokes mystery. They try to present Orthodox Church as much "mystical" as possible, especially as some of the most visible ones are converts from Catholicism, like this guy:

    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_Paprocki

    The info that he is convert is removed from the wikipedia article, but I know for sure he is one. When he talks to non-Orthodox he kind of plays up "jurodiwyj" aspect, but is much more mellow when among other Orthodox priests.

  666. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Thanks. I won't say which country (countries) I work. I would talk about vacation places though. I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer. Which areas are you planning to visit? Have you any plans for its best restaurants? There will be some nice places.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church, or at least reported for interrogation to the Mormon officers that guard the holy places of Salt Lake City.

    From his comments, AP implies like he is an extroverted and friendly person, at least if you avoided any political comments or debates with him. I guess he would also surely not report you to the authorities. Mr Hack I also had a positive intuition about.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Yahya, @Mikel

    With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church

    So what? Visiting Utah and meeting a fellow blog commenter in real life would still make it worth it. I would even welcome Sher Singh to my house. I know that he wants to rape my wife and kill my son but I wouldn’t be too worried, I’d just make him keep a safe distance while enjoying the conversation.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Mikel

    I'll repeat my open offer as well while we're on the topic. If any of you find yourselves coming near Western New York and want to stop by, you are more than welcome to stop by. I would consider it an honor to host any one of you and provide a meal or two at the very least.

    We're far too far flung to make such a thing happen but I've sometimes thought that it would be an amusing thought if this group could have a once a year in-person party. I'd would bet that this would be a fun group IRL.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Sher Singh
    @Mikel

    Sarcastic racial humour won't change the orientation of the Empire.

    https://niccolo.substack.com/p/turbo-america-is-beginning-to-resonate

    You're barely white, and that's even meaningless outside an 80% white enclave (SLC).
    I kind of pity you, but not really.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  667. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Well, when I was in high school, I read the entire New Testament.
     
    Read the Old Testament, too. Skip the most boring parts (like X begat Y, etc., which Jews use to calculate the age of the world), but read most of it. It’s a remarkable collection of books. Of course, you can tell that some writers were talented people, while others were not (to put it charitably). Still, it’s all interesting as a quasi-historic document, while some parts (e.g., Ecclesiastes) are among the highest achievements of human literature. Also, you get proper perspective on old farts’ habit of saying that people are no longer as good as they used to be: you’ll find that old farts were saying exact same thing millennia ago.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I have read the Old Testament during pandemics, and the New Testament again. And I must say, the Old Testament is much better, despite its not-too-good-fame, my catechete in school always advised us to read NT but never OT. But you get a feeling of real struggle between God and Satan there, which again leads to the sense of the reality of entire thing. It is Universe full of history; you cannot say that about the New one, which is just a simple story in comparison. Unlike the New One, The Old Testament very rarely calls you to “believe in something”, which again conveys the sense of real: no need to believe in what is real. The Torah, historical books and then prophetic ones are the best part IMHO. On the other hand, reading everything one realizes how out of place books like “Song of Songs” are in this context; I now entertain the idea of Satanic verses or even Satanic books (Book of Esther is another candidate of mine) as quite credible.

    And now, I am preparing to read Quran – from beginning to end.

    Reading OT, one also realizes that very small part of the Book is read in Church during the liturgical year. I swear, these large liturgical books on the pulpit with readings must be made to create the false conviction that the entire Bible is read during the year (I once believed it as a young person haha).

    I like the small details like this in this description of mini-Sodom within Israel, namely Benjaminite Ghibea:

    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

    Interestingly, this is largely true: there is higher incidence of left-handedness among gays than straights. Is this the reason why black magic is sometimes called the Path of the Left Hand…?

    • Thanks: keypusher
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    the Old Testament is much better
     
    I read the entire Bible twice, once in Church Slavonic back in Russia, the other in English (King James’ version) in the US. That was my feeling, too, both times. Of course, the OT is very uneven, as it was written by so many different people.

    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Yevardian

    , @keypusher
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

     

    I feel stupid for not having noticed this before, but at Judges 19:22-24 there's basically a verbatim repeat of the story of Lot and the men of Sodom just before its destruction, Genesis 19:5-8. Am I right to think that Judges was written first? I know very little about the OT.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  668. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mr. Hack

    In the church where I was baptized and confirmed it was a big hub bub when some of the members wanted to splurge some of the surplus on stained glass windows. Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry. Protestant fanatics in 30 Years War time went through churches in Germany with sledge hammers and axes and destroyed art work which has got to be a billion dollars in 2020 fake money.

    My guess is nobody in 95% denominations cares about this today. I certainly do not. But we do not have crucifixes. They did buy the new stained glass windows. One side of the church was scenes from Old T--Garden Eden, Noah's Ark, &c. The other side of the church was scenes from New T--Manger, Sermon Mount, &c. No depictions of Passion or Resurrection or Ascension. All the Jesuses were small and unobtrusive and it was hard to tell he was the focus of the scene as best as I can recall although it has been a few years since I have been inside that building.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

    Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry.

    Frugal-looking churches are not the only feature of Protestantism that appeals to me. Many protestant denominations prohibit professional priests, rightly considering that it’s unseemly when someone makes a living by being a priest. I also find protestant saying “God helps those who help themselves” remarkably wise.

    However, in my view the existence of a Church contradicts the basic tenet of Christianity that God is all-knowing. Based on that, every person can communicate with God directly, without imperfect intermediaries (priests are human, and therefore prone to sin). Naturally, elementary sociology will explain to you that Church is an institution (in addition, Catholic and Orthodox churches are very wealthy institutions, literally filthy rich), and therefore every Church has its own interests, which have nothing to do with God.

    I go to churches (buildings) to see the art inside, which in some cases is of better quality than you can find in the best museums. However, if I were religious, I would never go to any church, I would find its existence sacrilegious.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @AnonfromTN

    This parallels some of my own sentiments. I think that church buildings are often a wonderful cultural accomplishment but they don't have much to do with God. Perhaps one of the main mistakes of Christianity was getting into the real estate business. Trying to put the message of Christ into effect while worrying about raising money for maintenance, and worrying about liability insurance, and property values seems fraught with issues.

    I just read in the Gospel this evening how Jesus sent the 72 disciples out to teach telling them to have have faith and make no preparations for the journey.

    However, especially with kids, I have to let the perfect not be the enemy of the good. While we enjoy a Christian community I also try make sure that they have a healthy skepticism of the worldly Church institutions.

    To me, the point is encapsulated in the fourth chapter of John,


    “Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
     
    A physical church is okay, but only if it doesn't become paramount. Then it is just a crutch in my opinion.
  669. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    one writes icons, not paints them.
     
    It depends on the language. Say, in Russian the same verb is used for writing and painting pictures (писать), whereas in English and many other European languages two different words are used.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, in Poland, the Polish Orthodox do insist they “write” icons; I guess it evokes mystery. They try to present Orthodox Church as much “mystical” as possible, especially as some of the most visible ones are converts from Catholicism, like this guy:

    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_Paprocki

    The info that he is convert is removed from the wikipedia article, but I know for sure he is one. When he talks to non-Orthodox he kind of plays up “jurodiwyj” aspect, but is much more mellow when among other Orthodox priests.

  670. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    I have read the Old Testament during pandemics, and the New Testament again. And I must say, the Old Testament is much better, despite its not-too-good-fame, my catechete in school always advised us to read NT but never OT. But you get a feeling of real struggle between God and Satan there, which again leads to the sense of the reality of entire thing. It is Universe full of history; you cannot say that about the New one, which is just a simple story in comparison. Unlike the New One, The Old Testament very rarely calls you to "believe in something", which again conveys the sense of real: no need to believe in what is real. The Torah, historical books and then prophetic ones are the best part IMHO. On the other hand, reading everything one realizes how out of place books like "Song of Songs" are in this context; I now entertain the idea of Satanic verses or even Satanic books (Book of Esther is another candidate of mine) as quite credible.

    And now, I am preparing to read Quran - from beginning to end.

    Reading OT, one also realizes that very small part of the Book is read in Church during the liturgical year. I swear, these large liturgical books on the pulpit with readings must be made to create the false conviction that the entire Bible is read during the year (I once believed it as a young person haha).

    I like the small details like this in this description of mini-Sodom within Israel, namely Benjaminite Ghibea:

    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

    Interestingly, this is largely true: there is higher incidence of left-handedness among gays than straights. Is this the reason why black magic is sometimes called the Path of the Left Hand...?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @keypusher

    the Old Testament is much better

    I read the entire Bible twice, once in Church Slavonic back in Russia, the other in English (King James’ version) in the US. That was my feeling, too, both times. Of course, the OT is very uneven, as it was written by so many different people.

    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    Don't forget about Apocalypse, the only truly OT-style book of the NT. It is quirky, but I like it.
    Interestingly, there were other, less-condensed Apocalypses but remained apocryphical; nevertheless, they have interesting bits of knowledge too, like for example that Satan was banned from talking to people so he uses signs instead; they also dwell a bit more on what the world would be like before the end, and it looks a bit like the one we live in ;) Try to find some collection of apocryphical apocalypses, usually they would be inside broader collections of NT apocryphes.

    There is interesting theory concerning synoptic Evangelies which explains why there are three of them (there were other apocryphical ones as well): like with rings in Tolkien story, one to one of sons of Noah.

    Mark for Ham, Matthew for Shem, Luke for Japhet.

    Do they represent characters of Hamites, Semites, or Japhetites...? You judge.

    There are also studies of Q (Quelle), the alleged proto-evengelium of synoptic ones, but they do not bring much, IMHO.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    , @Yevardian
    @AnonfromTN


    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.
     
    I thinking... usually the non-synoptic John is considered the 'mystical' one, but off-hand I don't recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded, though Paul frequently does in his letters.
    If I remember right, both Luke and Matthew drew upon a lost source 'Q', both postdating Mark by a few years. And Luke had quite good Greek, whilst Matthew and Mark clearly show the influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax and even some sloppy grammar in Mark's case.

    The NT apocrypha has curiosity value sure, but people get an over inflated idea of the importance of the apocryphal from sensationalist reporting. There's very little evidence that any of them were every widely accepted ('The Shepherd' except, though its content is very conventional anyway), the gnostic gospels were certainly always marginal. Others were simply never widely disseminated because of the banal reason they were of poor literary quality (gospels of Jesus' childhood and the like).
    Probably the most radical and widespread early Christian movement, Marcionism, was notable mostly for rejection of the entire OT.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.
     
    For some reason I could never get into Bulgakov. I liked his 'Doctor's Notes' and 'White Guard' much better than 'Master', although perhaps that's simply due to the stressed circumstances in which I read the last one. Only truly Soviet author I've really taken a shine to is Dovlatov and his (semi-fictionalised?) autobiographical trashy escapades.
    The greatest Russian authors of the 20th Century to me would be Nabokov, Bunin and Bely.

    @Yahya

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.
     
    Classical concernts were a pretty regular event for us since my father plays in an orchestra. You'll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Dmitry, @Yahya

  671. @Beckow
    @Mikel

    .


    ..an alternative MAGA candidate with a proven record of anti-woke initiatives like DeSantis
     
    DeSantis has been the most reasonable Covid19 politician in the West. Trump folded from the beginning, as he has in other areas - the war is largely a result of Trump and Merkel standing aside and allowing the build-up to continue during the crucial 2015-20. Merkel has just publicly admitted: "we needed time to arm Kiev, thus fake Minsk.." (?)

    Why would it be any different with Trump in the future? DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that's worth something.

    On the other hand, who if not DeSantis would be a perfect 'leader' of a Phase II corona madness panic? They could use his credibility to prick the fools twice a day with just about anything...

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @A123, @LatW

    DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that’s worth something.

    Indeed. And not only that, but he also has a reasonable stance on the CRT & trannies, and was even able to achieve some results in that area (granted, on the state level), so if he is able to maintain those positions and not budge or compromise when he gets to the national level (where it might be harder to maintain those positions, the pressure will be on a whole new level), then this would be very valuable indeed, not just for the US, but the Europeans as well. One could always lean on him against the crazies. He’s also rational and non-eccentric so it would be harder for the left to tarnish his character. Oh, and him not being 75 or 80 would be a breath of fresh air.

    • Replies: @A123
    @LatW


    [DeSantis] not being 75 or 80 would be a breath of fresh air.
     
    The problem is with the optics. Backstabbing MAGA in an attempt to jump the line ahead of Trump will not go over will with older Republican voters. Who wants an ingrate who will dispose of his elders to shove both hands greedily the money pile?

    DeSantis would be much more saleable as heir apparent by waiting until 2028. At that point he would only 50. Still a breathe of fresh air and one with a much more honorable story.

    if [DeSantis] is able to maintain those positions and not budge or compromise when he gets to the national level (where it might be harder to maintain those positions, the pressure will be on a whole new level)
     
    Not only would the pressure be higher, DeSantis would need to attract 10MM+ RINO or Leftoid ballots after driving an unrecoverable wedge between himself and MAGA voters. How much would he have to sellout to MegaCorporation Globalism? Hard to see DeSantis not budging when his RINO base wants concessions.
    ___

    DeSantis has not combat military background, like GW Bush. There is a real chance he may be a REMF and NeoCon.

    With so little time in the national spotlight, it would be wise to leave him in the voters' eyes for another four years. If it turns out that he favours foreign adventures, there could be boots on the ground in Iran. We have a proven track record that Trump will not make that mistake.

    PEACE 😇
  672. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    the Old Testament is much better
     
    I read the entire Bible twice, once in Church Slavonic back in Russia, the other in English (King James’ version) in the US. That was my feeling, too, both times. Of course, the OT is very uneven, as it was written by so many different people.

    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Yevardian

    Don’t forget about Apocalypse, the only truly OT-style book of the NT. It is quirky, but I like it.
    Interestingly, there were other, less-condensed Apocalypses but remained apocryphical; nevertheless, they have interesting bits of knowledge too, like for example that Satan was banned from talking to people so he uses signs instead; they also dwell a bit more on what the world would be like before the end, and it looks a bit like the one we live in 😉 Try to find some collection of apocryphical apocalypses, usually they would be inside broader collections of NT apocryphes.

    There is interesting theory concerning synoptic Evangelies which explains why there are three of them (there were other apocryphical ones as well): like with rings in Tolkien story, one to one of sons of Noah.

    Mark for Ham, Matthew for Shem, Luke for Japhet.

    Do they represent characters of Hamites, Semites, or Japhetites…? You judge.

    There are also studies of Q (Quelle), the alleged proto-evengelium of synoptic ones, but they do not bring much, IMHO.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective


    There are also studies of Q (Quelle), the alleged proto-evengelium of synoptic ones, but they do not bring much, IMHO.
     
    Q = the stuff in Matthew and Luke AND NOT in Mark.

    Throckmorton is a book with three columns of text and one column of comments which has the parallels all marked off exact.

    https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=&an=throckmorton%20burton&tn=gospel%20parallels%20synopsis%20first%20three
    , @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Thanks! Will get apocryphal NT texts, Gospels and Apocalypses. I didn’t even know that apocryphal versions of Apocalypses existed.

  673. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    Don't forget about Apocalypse, the only truly OT-style book of the NT. It is quirky, but I like it.
    Interestingly, there were other, less-condensed Apocalypses but remained apocryphical; nevertheless, they have interesting bits of knowledge too, like for example that Satan was banned from talking to people so he uses signs instead; they also dwell a bit more on what the world would be like before the end, and it looks a bit like the one we live in ;) Try to find some collection of apocryphical apocalypses, usually they would be inside broader collections of NT apocryphes.

    There is interesting theory concerning synoptic Evangelies which explains why there are three of them (there were other apocryphical ones as well): like with rings in Tolkien story, one to one of sons of Noah.

    Mark for Ham, Matthew for Shem, Luke for Japhet.

    Do they represent characters of Hamites, Semites, or Japhetites...? You judge.

    There are also studies of Q (Quelle), the alleged proto-evengelium of synoptic ones, but they do not bring much, IMHO.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    There are also studies of Q (Quelle), the alleged proto-evengelium of synoptic ones, but they do not bring much, IMHO.

    Q = the stuff in Matthew and Luke AND NOT in Mark.

    Throckmorton is a book with three columns of text and one column of comments which has the parallels all marked off exact.

    https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=&an=throckmorton%20burton&tn=gospel%20parallels%20synopsis%20first%20three

  674. @LatW
    @Beckow


    DeSantis may have no other positives, he could be an updated version of a traditional RINO, but on C19 he stands out. Given the absurd idiocy of corona panic and the hysteria with outright corruption on highest levels like in EU, that’s worth something.
     
    Indeed. And not only that, but he also has a reasonable stance on the CRT & trannies, and was even able to achieve some results in that area (granted, on the state level), so if he is able to maintain those positions and not budge or compromise when he gets to the national level (where it might be harder to maintain those positions, the pressure will be on a whole new level), then this would be very valuable indeed, not just for the US, but the Europeans as well. One could always lean on him against the crazies. He's also rational and non-eccentric so it would be harder for the left to tarnish his character. Oh, and him not being 75 or 80 would be a breath of fresh air.

    Replies: @A123

    [DeSantis] not being 75 or 80 would be a breath of fresh air.

    The problem is with the optics. Backstabbing MAGA in an attempt to jump the line ahead of Trump will not go over will with older Republican voters. Who wants an ingrate who will dispose of his elders to shove both hands greedily the money pile?

    DeSantis would be much more saleable as heir apparent by waiting until 2028. At that point he would only 50. Still a breathe of fresh air and one with a much more honorable story.

    if [DeSantis] is able to maintain those positions and not budge or compromise when he gets to the national level (where it might be harder to maintain those positions, the pressure will be on a whole new level)

    Not only would the pressure be higher, DeSantis would need to attract 10MM+ RINO or Leftoid ballots after driving an unrecoverable wedge between himself and MAGA voters. How much would he have to sellout to MegaCorporation Globalism? Hard to see DeSantis not budging when his RINO base wants concessions.
    ___

    DeSantis has not combat military background, like GW Bush. There is a real chance he may be a REMF and NeoCon.

    With so little time in the national spotlight, it would be wise to leave him in the voters’ eyes for another four years. If it turns out that he favours foreign adventures, there could be boots on the ground in Iran. We have a proven track record that Trump will not make that mistake.

    PEACE 😇

  675. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    Don't forget about Apocalypse, the only truly OT-style book of the NT. It is quirky, but I like it.
    Interestingly, there were other, less-condensed Apocalypses but remained apocryphical; nevertheless, they have interesting bits of knowledge too, like for example that Satan was banned from talking to people so he uses signs instead; they also dwell a bit more on what the world would be like before the end, and it looks a bit like the one we live in ;) Try to find some collection of apocryphical apocalypses, usually they would be inside broader collections of NT apocryphes.

    There is interesting theory concerning synoptic Evangelies which explains why there are three of them (there were other apocryphical ones as well): like with rings in Tolkien story, one to one of sons of Noah.

    Mark for Ham, Matthew for Shem, Luke for Japhet.

    Do they represent characters of Hamites, Semites, or Japhetites...? You judge.

    There are also studies of Q (Quelle), the alleged proto-evengelium of synoptic ones, but they do not bring much, IMHO.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AnonfromTN

    Thanks! Will get apocryphal NT texts, Gospels and Apocalypses. I didn’t even know that apocryphal versions of Apocalypses existed.

  676. I don’t believe for a second the claim that it was purely human input determining what accounts would be targeted for shadow banning, etc. at Twitter. Maybe, it wasn’t part of the mainline code, but I am sure there were machines involved. Obviously, the tech exists, and why would these unscrupulous people shirk at using it?

  677. https://unherd.com/2022/12/the-politics-of-masturbation/

    As usual, Unherd provides an excellent article. Just get past the click-baity title, since it’s a bit misleadingly simplistic. It’s apparently part of a series on the author’s substack, and I may have to kep up with it.

    I’ve been thinking a lot about how the progressive element has excelled at deploying state and institutional capture over the past 100 years. It’s clearly been a winning strategy and this article nicely fleshes out part of the process, intensifying in the second half of the 20th century. That is part of the problem (maybe most of the problem) with the putative Right today, it has no strategy for fundamentally reshaping society and so fights an essentially losing series of battles arguing on Progressivism’s terms.

    I have a few quibbles with the article and the one that irritated me the most was a fairly minor one. The author seems to position H.L. Menken with the Progressive Left. As a bit of a Menken fan I find this silly since Menken really had an aristocratic bent, vitriolically scorning both the ignorant rubes and the insufferable social reformers.

    • Thanks: Coconuts
  678. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    So what? Visiting Utah and meeting a fellow blog commenter in real life would still make it worth it. I would even welcome Sher Singh to my house. I know that he wants to rape my wife and kill my son but I wouldn't be too worried, I'd just make him keep a safe distance while enjoying the conversation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Sher Singh

    I’ll repeat my open offer as well while we’re on the topic. If any of you find yourselves coming near Western New York and want to stop by, you are more than welcome to stop by. I would consider it an honor to host any one of you and provide a meal or two at the very least.

    We’re far too far flung to make such a thing happen but I’ve sometimes thought that it would be an amusing thought if this group could have a once a year in-person party. I’d would bet that this would be a fun group IRL.

    • Thanks: Mikel
    • Replies: @AP
    @Barbarossa

    You wouldn't happen to be near Syracuse? I sometimes drive through there on the way to the Thousand Islands.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

  679. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer.
     
    Yes I have visited many times before, though usually with family. This time I’m going with friends so it is more exciting.



    I’m currently in Paris, just arrived today. Will stay for 2 more days before heading for London. We went to a nice Italian restaurant recommended by our hotel receptionist. It is called Pendino.

    Previously when I had been to Paris I went to 5-star Michelin restaurants and the like. Absolutely detested it. I was once talking to a Chinese friend of mine from college and we were mocking how long it takes for the food to come and the minuscule portions served in these restaurants. Didn’t really like the food either.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow. More reliable and consistent IMO. The high-brow stuff are always at risk of pretension and absurdity.

    We aren’t too sophisticated so we don’t have anything planned in mind. Just asking random recommendations and searching stuff online as we go along.

    I don’t have time to visit the traditional touristic monuments in Paris or London, the stay is too short. Besides I have already been to most of them before.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    LOL. AP, Mr. Hack and Mikel are in the US so I probably cannot meet them. Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age, which is perhaps workable in a forum but will cause awkwardness face to face. It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    I think in some regard that this is a consequence of rigid age separation in education. It seems to make for what is really a strangely rigid preference in many for their own age cohort.

    I was home schooled and my own kids are as well and while many people always talk about being concerned with socialization, I think it can be superior in that regard. My own experience, observation of other home schoolers, and my own kids seems to demonstrate a much lower age group preference. Personally I enjoy talking and socializing with people of any age group pretty equally and don’t even register a real “generational divide”. My own kids are very much at home with either younger kids or much older adults, but of course their playmates are most generally close in age.

    So, I feel that a strong peer age preference in adulthood is more socially conditioned than anything.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Didn't Yahya say he is from Egypt? I wonder if they have significant age separation there? I don't know much about the Egyptian culture though.

    But many Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain have significant age separation for social life. Different pubs, often have different age customers in Mediterranean countries. So, you see the pub where everyone has grey hair and another pub with young students. But the two pubs look like they are same, except for the different age of people.


    consequence of rigid age separation in education
     
    In working life, even if you were in an intense graduate program with other young starters, you will soon be mixed with all your different aged colleagues, and you learn the older people are often more immature than you are. Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.

    I would say in office reality, sometimes the 45 year olds are becoming more like teenagers, with the kind of sense of humor we lost in highschool. For myself, I'm not sure I'm looking forward to becoming like a teenager again at that age, although it is a paradoxical kind of mature professionalism when you have such an expert level of relaxation at work that you behave like an immature teenager again.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @AP

  680. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    the Old Testament is much better
     
    I read the entire Bible twice, once in Church Slavonic back in Russia, the other in English (King James’ version) in the US. That was my feeling, too, both times. Of course, the OT is very uneven, as it was written by so many different people.

    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Yevardian

    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.

    I thinking… usually the non-synoptic John is considered the ‘mystical’ one, but off-hand I don’t recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded, though Paul frequently does in his letters.
    If I remember right, both Luke and Matthew drew upon a lost source ‘Q’, both postdating Mark by a few years. And Luke had quite good Greek, whilst Matthew and Mark clearly show the influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax and even some sloppy grammar in Mark’s case.

    The NT apocrypha has curiosity value sure, but people get an over inflated idea of the importance of the apocryphal from sensationalist reporting. There’s very little evidence that any of them were every widely accepted (‘The Shepherd’ except, though its content is very conventional anyway), the gnostic gospels were certainly always marginal. Others were simply never widely disseminated because of the banal reason they were of poor literary quality (gospels of Jesus’ childhood and the like).
    Probably the most radical and widespread early Christian movement, Marcionism, was notable mostly for rejection of the entire OT.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.

    For some reason I could never get into Bulgakov. I liked his ‘Doctor’s Notes’ and ‘White Guard’ much better than ‘Master’, although perhaps that’s simply due to the stressed circumstances in which I read the last one. Only truly Soviet author I’ve really taken a shine to is Dovlatov and his (semi-fictionalised?) autobiographical trashy escapades.
    The greatest Russian authors of the 20th Century to me would be Nabokov, Bunin and Bely.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.

    Classical concernts were a pretty regular event for us since my father plays in an orchestra. You’ll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Yevardian


    off-hand I don’t recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded
     
    When I was studying at the university in the USSR, they made us read Lenin. That’s who Mark reminded me of.
    , @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax

     

    They were writing in a third language, but people writing using their non-mother's tongue has pluses, not only minuses.

    They have to write in a more basic way, with less sophisticated or subtle ideas. But this also implies the text can be more accessible, simple and universal.

    Well, you know, Old Testament is more high quality writing, with beautiful images, complexity, density of concepts and words. But I could never read it easily, as I would stop after about 15 pages. I never was able to read all the text.

    It's another high quality, but difficult to read or enjoy, ancient text (like many ancient texts), and therefore I didn't read it much.

    On the other hand, New Testament, is more low quality, a bit like the children's comic, although mixed with some beautiful mystical wisdom in some of the teaching of Jesus. But it's very accessible, one of the most accessible of any text from the ancient world.

    I read New Testament many times, including in situations where you don't have good attention, like traveling. Therefore, thousands of years later, we are reading much more New Testament than Old Testament.

    There is a kind of genius of New Testament, as most ancient texts are quite unaccessible. Its accessibility is very impressive. The success of this, can be partly because of the authors writing in the language which was not native. Although its authors would probably be also great communicators in their primary language.

    , @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    You’ll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.
     
    So I went to a classical concert a couple of nights ago in L'église de la Madeleine; and what you told me checks out. The median age of the audience must have been somewhere in the 50s, which tracks with France’s age pyramid. Young adults were far and few between, and the one’s there were mostly with their parents. I was probably the youngest person in the cathedral. There were also these three well-dressed Chinese girls who looked 30-ish, though without their parents which was impressive. Other than a smattering of a few POC, the audience was a sea of middle-aged and elderly Europeans/Westerners. I thought they would mostly be native French, but upon being seated I heard a couple of Aussies, one of whom was a beautiful dark-haired 40-ish woman, behind me chatting with a Scandinavian-looking fellow in English. They were talking about the church architecture, and the Scandi assumed they had been to “Wren’s cathedral” in London, but the Aussies told him they had only seen it from the outside. Also I heard a few American accents here and there. But other than that I guesstimate the place must have been 80% native French, 19.8% non-French whites, and 0.2% POC.

    I had expected beforehand to be one of the rare non-Europeans in the Madeleine so I made an extra effort to blend in so that people don’t think I’m a terrorist coming to bomb the cathedral lol. Typically when Frenchies would speak to me in French I’d ask them to switch to English since my French is too weak, but this time I mustered all my primary school knowledge of French and actually managed to communicate with the natives in that language. Trick is to reply with a few words only and let the others speak. I’d say I did a good job of fitting in since no-one asked me “why agh you eeh?” or gave me odd looks.

    The orchestra was set to play Mozart’s Requim and Ravel’s Bolero. I was quite excited about the former since it is among my favorite pieces in the Western classical repertoire. The orchestra began by playing a short 10 minute contemporary piece which of course was horrid and dissonantal. Then the 70-man choir entered and the orchestra returned to the tonal and melodious; off they played the familiar and august Introitus, with a statue of Mary Magdalene and a few French patron Saints hanging above them.

    The sound emanated naturally from the orchestra outwards, without the aide of a speaker system. On the one hand, the naturalistic tone of the instruments maintained the dignity and grandeur of the setting we were in, but on the other came at the cost of low volume for the audience further back. I was seated in the middle section, which cost me 33 euros, and I regretted not having paid another 10 euros to be seated further front. Still I could hear the music fairly well which was good enough. I can’t say the sound in the cathedral was much better than my speakers at home, but the purpose of such events for me isn’t so much to listen but to see and feel. I especially enjoyed the feeling of being in a room of like-minded souls who thought it better to listen to the Requiem in D Minor in this grand and hallowed cathedral than watch a football match on TV. Still, despite the somewhat moderate volume, my heart couldn’t help but soar when the orchestra played the Lux aeterna; one of my favorite movements in all of music, and the one I feel gets closest to defining the sublime and beautiful.

    The audience in the room were admirably patient and rock-like in their demeanor; which was a stark contrast to the ruckus crowd I had seen in a Jay-Z concert I had the misjudgment to attend in New York City when I was younger. I had expected coughing from the videos I’ve seen on YouTube of classical concerts, but the elderly audience kept it together throughout and I rarely heard any during the concert. Very few people were on their phones during the event, and even fewer took out their phones to take pictures or record videos (though it was permissible).

    Overall I counted 48 rows with 24 chairs in each row, which would come to a total of 1,152 seats. I’d estimate nearly 85% of the seats were occupied, which was quite an accomplishment considering France was playing against England during the concert. That such a large crowd of French people are still interested in listening to the greatest achievements of their civilization speaks to their sophistication and good taste in cultural matters. I’m glad I was able to see a glimpse of this great civilization in its authentic form before it reaches the end of its terminal phase and dies out completely.

    I‘ll be honest in that I never had a high opinion of the French; didn’t like their effeminate faggotry and liberalism. But this trip has really elevated my respect for these refined peoples; that they have built these great cathedrals and impressive architecture, after only having had high civilization for less than a millennium, speaks to their greatness. It’s unfortunate that their liberalism is now causing them to decline into a deep pit which can only lead to a worse France, but I do hope they find a way out.

    But for now, an ode to France:

    Dear France,

    We hardly knew ye,

    From the pits of Gallic barbarism,

    To the heights of civilization,

    Carrying the banner of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité,

    Such clean and orderly Rue’s,

    And majestic art and cathedrals;

    Your language the tongue of elites,

    From Saint Petersburg to Algiers.

    This is the interior of The Church of Saint-Marie-Madeleine:


    https://i.ibb.co/1v8Yh85/90338-C7-F-5-C0-A-43-B4-9-F9-C-177-CD43-A9634.jpg


    I took some pictures of the Hellenic exterior of the church but the ones on the internet are better.

    Also took a video recording of the Lacrimosa; not sure if it will work:

    https://youtu.be/n7vjNabNrLY

    Would highly recommend anyone visiting Paris to view a concert in one of their beautiful cathedrals. In my opinion a vastly more interesting and enjoyable experience than visiting generic touristic attractions like the Tour Eiffel.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

  681. @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Martin Luther condemned sculpture and painting inside the sanctuary as idolatry.
     
    Frugal-looking churches are not the only feature of Protestantism that appeals to me. Many protestant denominations prohibit professional priests, rightly considering that it’s unseemly when someone makes a living by being a priest. I also find protestant saying “God helps those who help themselves” remarkably wise.

    However, in my view the existence of a Church contradicts the basic tenet of Christianity that God is all-knowing. Based on that, every person can communicate with God directly, without imperfect intermediaries (priests are human, and therefore prone to sin). Naturally, elementary sociology will explain to you that Church is an institution (in addition, Catholic and Orthodox churches are very wealthy institutions, literally filthy rich), and therefore every Church has its own interests, which have nothing to do with God.

    I go to churches (buildings) to see the art inside, which in some cases is of better quality than you can find in the best museums. However, if I were religious, I would never go to any church, I would find its existence sacrilegious.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    This parallels some of my own sentiments. I think that church buildings are often a wonderful cultural accomplishment but they don’t have much to do with God. Perhaps one of the main mistakes of Christianity was getting into the real estate business. Trying to put the message of Christ into effect while worrying about raising money for maintenance, and worrying about liability insurance, and property values seems fraught with issues.

    I just read in the Gospel this evening how Jesus sent the 72 disciples out to teach telling them to have have faith and make no preparations for the journey.

    However, especially with kids, I have to let the perfect not be the enemy of the good. While we enjoy a Christian community I also try make sure that they have a healthy skepticism of the worldly Church institutions.

    To me, the point is encapsulated in the fourth chapter of John,

    “Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

    A physical church is okay, but only if it doesn’t become paramount. Then it is just a crutch in my opinion.

  682. @Mikel
    @Dmitry


    With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    So what? Visiting Utah and meeting a fellow blog commenter in real life would still make it worth it. I would even welcome Sher Singh to my house. I know that he wants to rape my wife and kill my son but I wouldn't be too worried, I'd just make him keep a safe distance while enjoying the conversation.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Sher Singh

    Sarcastic racial humour won’t change the orientation of the Empire.

    https://niccolo.substack.com/p/turbo-america-is-beginning-to-resonate

    You’re barely white, and that’s even meaningless outside an 80% white enclave (SLC).
    I kind of pity you, but not really.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  683. Sher Singh says:

    Slavs thumping the bible to be accepted among Whites is similar to LatAms lol.

    https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/another-hole-in-the-5d-chess-theory/comment/11037470

    Fact is, Levantines are higher status in the Western world.
    Germano-Iberians tend to be Nazis, for they are outside the Franco-Italic cultural core.
    Slavic & LatAm religiosity is aimed at making up for the lack of European DNA.

    Similar, in fact to Hindu Nationalism being prominent in C India, (Gujurat/Marathas)
    they’re also racially mixed.


    Now, this isn’t to step on anyone’s spirituality just pointing out the material incentives.
    The Byzantine Emperor negotiates with Jewish Oligarchs over military objectives,
    the way the Liberal Trans Dominus sits on a board meeting with (((Tech))) billionaires & the ADL.

  684. @Barbarossa
    @Mikel

    I'll repeat my open offer as well while we're on the topic. If any of you find yourselves coming near Western New York and want to stop by, you are more than welcome to stop by. I would consider it an honor to host any one of you and provide a meal or two at the very least.

    We're far too far flung to make such a thing happen but I've sometimes thought that it would be an amusing thought if this group could have a once a year in-person party. I'd would bet that this would be a fun group IRL.

    Replies: @AP

    You wouldn’t happen to be near Syracuse? I sometimes drive through there on the way to the Thousand Islands.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @AP

    Same. Anyway, I'd like to wipe the slate clean - if I hadn't gotten mentions I'd have left.
    I get along with the Celts & Ukrainians not much else to say, hope I didn't leave anyone out.

    I'm not far right or left just religious, and do mean what I say.
    Arguing online over stereotypes when one has no impression of the group is tiresome.

    Barbasossa has my email, and I have a discord/telegram too.
    No beef or tobacco around me, Whiskey's fine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    , @Barbarossa
    @AP

    Further West. I'm basically an hour South of Rochester. For anyone traveling East/West on 86 I'm only about 10 minutes off the highway.

  685. Sher Singh says:
    @AP
    @Barbarossa

    You wouldn't happen to be near Syracuse? I sometimes drive through there on the way to the Thousand Islands.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    Same. Anyway, I’d like to wipe the slate clean – if I hadn’t gotten mentions I’d have left.
    I get along with the Celts & Ukrainians not much else to say, hope I didn’t leave anyone out.

    I’m not far right or left just religious, and do mean what I say.
    Arguing online over stereotypes when one has no impression of the group is tiresome.

    Barbasossa has my email, and I have a discord/telegram too.
    No beef or tobacco around me, Whiskey’s fine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  686. One other thing I’d like to note,
    People often assume our taboo on intelligence or racial testing is due to individualism.

    However, this never existed under the British, only with Jewish rule – where anti-Semitism is the ultimate hatred, from which all others arise.

    Something to think about, out.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  687. @AnonfromTN
    @German_reader


    when I see pictures of Ukrainian children who’ve lost limbs because of Russian bombs and missiles
     
    Can you vouch that these picture show what they claim to show? Ukrainian shelling killed and maimed >500 children in Donbass since 2014. And thousands of adults. The pictures are all over the internet. European MSM, wholly owned by we know who, were caught many times showing footage of the results of Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk and claiming that these are the results of Russian shelling of Kiev.

    couldn’t be but catastrophical for Russia’s image.
     
    Now we come to the crucial point. What Europe achieved this year is that the majority of Russians (not to mention the people in Donbass who felt that way for some years because of obvious duplicity of OSCE) don’t give a rat’s ass about Russia’s image in Europe. They simply wrote Europe off. I am not an extremist, not even a nationalist, but even I won’t now go to Europe, or to any other country supporting Kiev regime, making sure that I don’t contribute a penny to their economy. I even flew to Russia via Turkey bypassing Europe, rather than choosing another route that involved landing in Europe, so that no European airport gets any of my money.

    Replies: @German_reader, @yurivku

    Glad to know you’re still here and strugling for good. But it’s useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots. I gave up reading here, but will confirm – we, Russians, now hate and despise the West. For EU it’s mostly despising and for US mostly hateness. And it’s now for centuries.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @yurivku


    Glad to know you’re still here and strugling for good. But it’s useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots.
     
    Thanks! However, I disagree about all Westerners being hopelessly bad. 30+ years of living among them, working with them, and talking to them convinced me that the majority are decent people, although many are severely brainwashed by relentless propaganda. Yet there are still quite a few who use their brains and come to inevitable (if you think logically) conclusion that everything official Western propaganda says is either lies or blatant lies. Western people are going through the stage Soviet people went through 40-50 years ago: they realize that if you want to know what’s going on, you cannot take MSM “reports” at face value, but need to think for yourself. Internet helps. When you read the comments on various sites from the people living in Asia, Latin America, or Africa, you see that the majority of the world population does not believe a word the empire and its lackeys say. Germans, of all people, coined the word “lugenpresse” (lying press), even though Germany might appear monolithic looking from the outside and listening to their politicians, who are pathetic servants of the empire.

    There is hope. But anything good will likely come to the fore many years after Ukies are crushed. So, the people of Donbass are right that crushing current Kiev regime is #1 priority for Russia and all decent people of the world. Today to Nuland’s “fuck the EU” Russians should add “fuck the empire and all its sidekicks”. That’s the only way to make tomorrow better than today.

    Replies: @yurivku, @yurivku

  688. @German_reader
    @Thulean Friend


    Better then to either accept that people are different but having enough commonality that we can live together while still respecting distinctions (my preference, i.e. genuine multiculturalism) or outright racial separatism.
     
    Sounds like you're arguing for some kind of communitarianism, maybe even legally enshrined, but I don't see how this could be reconciled with "liberal democracy" as currently understood. It definitely clashes with notions of individual rights as the supreme good.
    Or with a welfare state for that matter. Here we're often talking about race, identity etc. in a fairly abstract way, but for a lot of people more prosaic economic considerations are much more important (and it's something that is partly behind my own resentments, as I will readily admit). Saying "we're all different, that's ok, everyone's valuable in his own way" sounds nice...but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your "genuine multiculturalism"?
    And anyway, I don't see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there'll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure "racial justice". A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it...and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it's of course a talking point copied from the US). There's no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.

    Replies: @Thulean Friend

    but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your “genuine multiculturalism”?

    I’ve been quite open about favoring a fairly cognitive elitist immigration policy. Europe has run a poor immigration policy, but that was never inevitable nor is it going forward. The people already let in are a problem, but even if we assume that all those who came magically went home tomorrow, we’d still be stuck with wide disparities even within the same ethnic group. I’ve referenced Gregory Clark’s research on Swedish (non-existing) social mobility, including during the heyday of socialism.

    In other words, this problem persists even in homogeneous societies. I will concede that race probably makes the optics problem worse rather than if everyone looked the same, but if the end effect is similar, does it really matter? South Africa has had God knows how many affirmative action campaigns. Racial disparities have not only stayed the same, they’ve gotten worse since the fall of Apartheid. So even if the entire government tries its best, it doesn’t seem to make much of an impact.

    I don’t see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there’ll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure “racial justice”.

    I’ve partially answered this above, but there’s another factor at play here.

    If the world had a stagnating science output, I’d concede that this is a risk. But the progress in AI and in genomics is now incredibly rapid. Clearing up old crimes have now gotten dramatically easier through innovative new genomics firms like Othram. Embyro-screening is only going to rise.

    If you actually read experts in the field, all of them essentially agree that we will get an eugenics program, even if we will call it something else for optics reasons. Indeed, it’s already happening at the margins.

    I think a lot of people, even on the right, underestimate how this will up-end the social theories that underpin the Western world. Most of these theories pre-supposes a future that looks very similar to the one we had in the postwar era, except for cleaner cars and a few computer gadgets. If that was the case, these theories make rational sense. But if that’s not the future that we will get, it’s a cardinal error.

    To be clear, what we’re seeing now is different from when brilliant scholars like Hans Eysenck began to catalogue and document racial differences. There were no tools to do anything about it. It was pure observation. So it was easier to ban it because governments could not remedy the differences.

    But what happens when you can change a child’s chance of getting certain diseases (already a reality today) or raise her intelligence (imminent)? Clinging onto blank-slatism in this environment will be impossible.

    Very few parents, I suspect, will want to give their kids a lifetime disadvantage if it affords them to virtue-signal. Right-wingers may think this, but if you look at white flight patterns of white liberals then they are not much different. The main difference is that white liberals lie more, including to themselves, but ultimately don’t behave much different from white conservatives. I see it everyday in my own circle.

    What’s true for individuals will inexorably be valid for groups. Yet I suspect the racial divide will get blurred, as rich Third World elites will ensure their kids get a bigger boost than e.g. poor whites.

    A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it…and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it’s of course a talking point copied from the US). There’s no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.

    Yes, but opportunists like these exist everywhere. Misogyny is a real problem, but that doesn’t prevent some women from filing false rape charges to damage a male rival at a job. Spreading malicious rumors happens even in mostly male environments. It’s what humans do. Race is just another vector. If it wasn’t available, these folks would find another. I think a common fallacy is to assume that absent race, these problems would go away. I think they’d just take on another shape, but the basic motivation would remain the same (personal enrichment at the cost of someone else).

    As someone who has at times amused myself reading “dissident right” commentary on the internet, I can personally vouch that the amount of back-biting, false rumors and smear campaigns among self-described “fashy right-wingers” will give even the most gossipy old aunt a run for her money. It’s also very entertaining to read, but that’s a different story. To me, this argument that race introduces a grifting problem seems to be among the weakest. Humans will find a way and they don’t need race for it.

    [MORE]
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Thulean Friend

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChevaucheeN/status/1598811052480897049

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Thulean Friend

    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote "The end of science" in the late 1990 and it still holds.

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Science-Knowledge-Twilight-Scientific/dp/0465065929

    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).

    There have been no big breakthroughs or paradigms in science in last years. Above all, the problem of energy stands out: cold fusion is still years away, and the battery technology is the biggest impediment in the quest for digitalizing everything. We still rely on oil & gas when the cliff of peak oil is just behind corner (2025 most probably).

    Physics is plagued by non-testable theories which seem to lead to nowhere (eg. string theory), whereas Grand Unification theory still did not solve problem of gravitation as well as the existence Gravitational Constant.

    Biology still believes in evolution theory despite the fact that many places in its chain are still empty.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @keypusher

    , @songbird
    @Thulean Friend

    Have you seen this paper that purports dogs could reach a 100 IQ (human), within 100 generations of selective breeding (not embryo selection)?

    And what exactly would that be? Male golden retrievers are able to breed at 6 months. Have heard 2 years is the more ideal time for females, but in a pinch, I suspect they could also do it in 6 months. Gestation is a little over 2 months. Female dogs (goldens) are in heat twice a year.

    Have to say that it really doesn't make much sense to me, and I am a proponent of more advanced forms of dog-breeding, such as breeding old sires to increase dog lifespans.

    Anyway, since it doesn't make sense, I do wonder if Hsu's rosier predictions about increasing the yield of the brain like it was maize might be a little off.


    https://twitter.com/0_hipotezi/status/1601237511690670081?s=20&t=DTJZ_uFq6IG_HrWu74Jy1g

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  689. TLDR Natural athletes have better muscle mass & bone density.
    Cardio improves work capacity & freak injuries are usually drug-related.
    Take it slow, follow a program & learn at your own pace.

    Also keep my name out your mouth.

  690. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your “genuine multiculturalism”?
     
    I've been quite open about favoring a fairly cognitive elitist immigration policy. Europe has run a poor immigration policy, but that was never inevitable nor is it going forward. The people already let in are a problem, but even if we assume that all those who came magically went home tomorrow, we'd still be stuck with wide disparities even within the same ethnic group. I've referenced Gregory Clark's research on Swedish (non-existing) social mobility, including during the heyday of socialism.

    In other words, this problem persists even in homogeneous societies. I will concede that race probably makes the optics problem worse rather than if everyone looked the same, but if the end effect is similar, does it really matter? South Africa has had God knows how many affirmative action campaigns. Racial disparities have not only stayed the same, they've gotten worse since the fall of Apartheid. So even if the entire government tries its best, it doesn't seem to make much of an impact.

    I don’t see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there’ll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure “racial justice”.
     

    I've partially answered this above, but there's another factor at play here.

    If the world had a stagnating science output, I'd concede that this is a risk. But the progress in AI and in genomics is now incredibly rapid. Clearing up old crimes have now gotten dramatically easier through innovative new genomics firms like Othram. Embyro-screening is only going to rise.

    If you actually read experts in the field, all of them essentially agree that we will get an eugenics program, even if we will call it something else for optics reasons. Indeed, it's already happening at the margins.

    I think a lot of people, even on the right, underestimate how this will up-end the social theories that underpin the Western world. Most of these theories pre-supposes a future that looks very similar to the one we had in the postwar era, except for cleaner cars and a few computer gadgets. If that was the case, these theories make rational sense. But if that's not the future that we will get, it's a cardinal error.

    To be clear, what we're seeing now is different from when brilliant scholars like Hans Eysenck began to catalogue and document racial differences. There were no tools to do anything about it. It was pure observation. So it was easier to ban it because governments could not remedy the differences.

    But what happens when you can change a child's chance of getting certain diseases (already a reality today) or raise her intelligence (imminent)? Clinging onto blank-slatism in this environment will be impossible.

    Very few parents, I suspect, will want to give their kids a lifetime disadvantage if it affords them to virtue-signal. Right-wingers may think this, but if you look at white flight patterns of white liberals then they are not much different. The main difference is that white liberals lie more, including to themselves, but ultimately don't behave much different from white conservatives. I see it everyday in my own circle.

    What's true for individuals will inexorably be valid for groups. Yet I suspect the racial divide will get blurred, as rich Third World elites will ensure their kids get a bigger boost than e.g. poor whites.

    A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it…and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it’s of course a talking point copied from the US). There’s no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.
     

    Yes, but opportunists like these exist everywhere. Misogyny is a real problem, but that doesn't prevent some women from filing false rape charges to damage a male rival at a job. Spreading malicious rumors happens even in mostly male environments. It's what humans do. Race is just another vector. If it wasn't available, these folks would find another. I think a common fallacy is to assume that absent race, these problems would go away. I think they'd just take on another shape, but the basic motivation would remain the same (personal enrichment at the cost of someone else).

    As someone who has at times amused myself reading "dissident right" commentary on the internet, I can personally vouch that the amount of back-biting, false rumors and smear campaigns among self-described "fashy right-wingers" will give even the most gossipy old aunt a run for her money. It's also very entertaining to read, but that's a different story. To me, this argument that race introduces a grifting problem seems to be among the weakest. Humans will find a way and they don't need race for it.

    Steve Hsu has written and spoken about the genomic revolution extensively.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/steve-hsu-intelligence-embryo-selection-the-future/id1516093381?i=1000577056223

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

  691. @AP
    @Barbarossa

    You wouldn't happen to be near Syracuse? I sometimes drive through there on the way to the Thousand Islands.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Barbarossa

    Further West. I’m basically an hour South of Rochester. For anyone traveling East/West on 86 I’m only about 10 minutes off the highway.

  692. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    I have read the Old Testament during pandemics, and the New Testament again. And I must say, the Old Testament is much better, despite its not-too-good-fame, my catechete in school always advised us to read NT but never OT. But you get a feeling of real struggle between God and Satan there, which again leads to the sense of the reality of entire thing. It is Universe full of history; you cannot say that about the New one, which is just a simple story in comparison. Unlike the New One, The Old Testament very rarely calls you to "believe in something", which again conveys the sense of real: no need to believe in what is real. The Torah, historical books and then prophetic ones are the best part IMHO. On the other hand, reading everything one realizes how out of place books like "Song of Songs" are in this context; I now entertain the idea of Satanic verses or even Satanic books (Book of Esther is another candidate of mine) as quite credible.

    And now, I am preparing to read Quran - from beginning to end.

    Reading OT, one also realizes that very small part of the Book is read in Church during the liturgical year. I swear, these large liturgical books on the pulpit with readings must be made to create the false conviction that the entire Bible is read during the year (I once believed it as a young person haha).

    I like the small details like this in this description of mini-Sodom within Israel, namely Benjaminite Ghibea:

    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

    Interestingly, this is largely true: there is higher incidence of left-handedness among gays than straights. Is this the reason why black magic is sometimes called the Path of the Left Hand...?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @keypusher

    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

    I feel stupid for not having noticed this before, but at Judges 19:22-24 there’s basically a verbatim repeat of the story of Lot and the men of Sodom just before its destruction, Genesis 19:5-8. Am I right to think that Judges was written first? I know very little about the OT.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @keypusher

    It is possible that Book of Judges was redacted before the Book of Genesis, and the story of Gibeah is also better attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls (the oldest known material specimens of Scripture) than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, however that one also is present in fragments. Both stories come from the so-called Jahwist tradition, which means they belong to the oldest Biblical stories; and they both discuss similar problems typical for Jahwist tradition. They both discuss the problem of sexual misconduct and resulting punishment, and that whether you are a Jew (Gibeah) or not a Jew (Sodom & Gomorrah), which problem of sexual conduct seems to be one of the main concerns of Jahwe, even taking over your nationality or tribe.
    Both stories also include men trying to save sinners on their own, either Abraham unsuccessfully bargaining with God for Sodom, or, successfully, the rest of Israelites allowing remnants of Benjaminites to kidnap women of others that were slain in order to prolong their tribe.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  693. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your “genuine multiculturalism”?
     
    I've been quite open about favoring a fairly cognitive elitist immigration policy. Europe has run a poor immigration policy, but that was never inevitable nor is it going forward. The people already let in are a problem, but even if we assume that all those who came magically went home tomorrow, we'd still be stuck with wide disparities even within the same ethnic group. I've referenced Gregory Clark's research on Swedish (non-existing) social mobility, including during the heyday of socialism.

    In other words, this problem persists even in homogeneous societies. I will concede that race probably makes the optics problem worse rather than if everyone looked the same, but if the end effect is similar, does it really matter? South Africa has had God knows how many affirmative action campaigns. Racial disparities have not only stayed the same, they've gotten worse since the fall of Apartheid. So even if the entire government tries its best, it doesn't seem to make much of an impact.

    I don’t see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there’ll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure “racial justice”.
     

    I've partially answered this above, but there's another factor at play here.

    If the world had a stagnating science output, I'd concede that this is a risk. But the progress in AI and in genomics is now incredibly rapid. Clearing up old crimes have now gotten dramatically easier through innovative new genomics firms like Othram. Embyro-screening is only going to rise.

    If you actually read experts in the field, all of them essentially agree that we will get an eugenics program, even if we will call it something else for optics reasons. Indeed, it's already happening at the margins.

    I think a lot of people, even on the right, underestimate how this will up-end the social theories that underpin the Western world. Most of these theories pre-supposes a future that looks very similar to the one we had in the postwar era, except for cleaner cars and a few computer gadgets. If that was the case, these theories make rational sense. But if that's not the future that we will get, it's a cardinal error.

    To be clear, what we're seeing now is different from when brilliant scholars like Hans Eysenck began to catalogue and document racial differences. There were no tools to do anything about it. It was pure observation. So it was easier to ban it because governments could not remedy the differences.

    But what happens when you can change a child's chance of getting certain diseases (already a reality today) or raise her intelligence (imminent)? Clinging onto blank-slatism in this environment will be impossible.

    Very few parents, I suspect, will want to give their kids a lifetime disadvantage if it affords them to virtue-signal. Right-wingers may think this, but if you look at white flight patterns of white liberals then they are not much different. The main difference is that white liberals lie more, including to themselves, but ultimately don't behave much different from white conservatives. I see it everyday in my own circle.

    What's true for individuals will inexorably be valid for groups. Yet I suspect the racial divide will get blurred, as rich Third World elites will ensure their kids get a bigger boost than e.g. poor whites.

    A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it…and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it’s of course a talking point copied from the US). There’s no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.
     

    Yes, but opportunists like these exist everywhere. Misogyny is a real problem, but that doesn't prevent some women from filing false rape charges to damage a male rival at a job. Spreading malicious rumors happens even in mostly male environments. It's what humans do. Race is just another vector. If it wasn't available, these folks would find another. I think a common fallacy is to assume that absent race, these problems would go away. I think they'd just take on another shape, but the basic motivation would remain the same (personal enrichment at the cost of someone else).

    As someone who has at times amused myself reading "dissident right" commentary on the internet, I can personally vouch that the amount of back-biting, false rumors and smear campaigns among self-described "fashy right-wingers" will give even the most gossipy old aunt a run for her money. It's also very entertaining to read, but that's a different story. To me, this argument that race introduces a grifting problem seems to be among the weakest. Humans will find a way and they don't need race for it.

    Steve Hsu has written and spoken about the genomic revolution extensively.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/steve-hsu-intelligence-embryo-selection-the-future/id1516093381?i=1000577056223

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote “The end of science” in the late 1990 and it still holds.

    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).

    There have been no big breakthroughs or paradigms in science in last years. Above all, the problem of energy stands out: cold fusion is still years away, and the battery technology is the biggest impediment in the quest for digitalizing everything. We still rely on oil & gas when the cliff of peak oil is just behind corner (2025 most probably).

    Physics is plagued by non-testable theories which seem to lead to nowhere (eg. string theory), whereas Grand Unification theory still did not solve problem of gravitation as well as the existence Gravitational Constant.

    Biology still believes in evolution theory despite the fact that many places in its chain are still empty.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Instead of:
    "AI is just computational power recognition"

    should be:
    "AI is just computational pattern recognition"

    , @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote “The end of science” in the late 1990 and it still holds.

     
    IMHO the even more important issue is the number of schools are no longer interested in science and engineering: (1)

    [From 2018] A state-of-the-art pedestrian bridge hailed as the inevitably wondrous result of diversity in engineering has collapsed within days of being paraded before the media. Did I say inconvenient? I should have said symbolic.

    “Diversity Bridge” (that’s not the structure’s official name, but I think it fits) was designed to connect Florida International University to the city of Sweetwater, where many FIU students and staff reside. The bridge, installed (though not yet opened to the public) a mere four days before its failure, spanned a busy Miami highway, and the collapse crushed cars and people underneath. Authorities report at least six deaths.

    Prior to pancaking, Diversity Bridge had been championed as “an engineering feat come to life.” One of the geniuses who accomplished this “feat” is an engineer who was hailed by President Obama in 2015 as a “champion of change”: Atorod Azizinamini, director of FIU’s Accelerated Bridge Construction Center (now renamed the Accelerated Bridge Destruction Center). The firm that built the bridge, Munilla Construction Management (MCM), is run by the Munilla brothers—Raul, Juan, Jorge, Lou, Fernando, and Pedro (is that a construction firm or the latest incarnation of Menudo?). And then we have Leonor Flores, MCM’s senior manager.
     
    Hopefully this is another area that Trump's 2nd term can improve on. MAGA should reset the research grants awards process to what it was 4+ decades ago.. Projects should be about science, not SJW/DIE special privilege.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.takimag.com/article/diversity_bridge_is_falling_down_my_fair_lady_david_cole/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucflj-MsJBI
    , @keypusher
    @Another Polish Perspective


    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).
     
    This is trivial, but I asked Chat GPT whether the Ruy Lopez chess opening was better for White or Black. I got:

    The Ruy Lopez opening is generally considered to be better for White, as it allows White to control the center of the board and develop their pieces quickly. The Ruy Lopez is named after the Spanish bishop Ruy López de Segura, who wrote one of the first books on chess in the 16th century. In the Ruy Lopez opening, White starts by moving their king's pawn two squares forward, followed by the knight to f3, the bishop to c4, and the queen to d3. This formation allows White to control the center of the board and put pressure on Black's position.
     

    Black has a few different options for how to respond to the Ruy Lopez opening. One common response is the Berlin Defense, in which Black moves their knight to c6 and their bishop to e7. This defense allows Black to protect their pawn on e5 and to create counterplay on the queenside. Another option for Black is the Marshall Defense, in which Black moves their knight to c6 and their bishop to d7. This defense allows Black to control the d5 square and to create counterplay on the kingside.

     


    Overall, the Ruy Lopez opening is considered to be better for White, as it allows White to control the center of the board and to put pressure on Black's position. However, Black has a few different options for how to respond, and the game can still be very complex and challenging for both sides.
     
    It sounds authoritative, but as far as specifics go this is gibberish (the white bishop goes to b5, not c4, that literally defines the opening, the black bishop often doesn't go to e7 in the Berlin, etc.).

    Similarly, I asked ChatGPT to compare The Song of Achilles and the Iliad. It knew that The Song of Achilles was a 2011 novel by Madeline Miller, but everything else it said about the novel was wrong (it thought that the novel was narrated by Achilles (nope, Patroclus) and the gods and goddesses were largely absent (Achilles' mother Thetis is a major character).

    In short, it can sound like it knows what is talking about while speaking absolute nonsense. Just what the world needs, a bull**** generator.
  694. @Thulean Friend
    @German_reader


    but what if some communities consistently take out more from the welfare system than they put in? How do you deal with that in your “genuine multiculturalism”?
     
    I've been quite open about favoring a fairly cognitive elitist immigration policy. Europe has run a poor immigration policy, but that was never inevitable nor is it going forward. The people already let in are a problem, but even if we assume that all those who came magically went home tomorrow, we'd still be stuck with wide disparities even within the same ethnic group. I've referenced Gregory Clark's research on Swedish (non-existing) social mobility, including during the heyday of socialism.

    In other words, this problem persists even in homogeneous societies. I will concede that race probably makes the optics problem worse rather than if everyone looked the same, but if the end effect is similar, does it really matter? South Africa has had God knows how many affirmative action campaigns. Racial disparities have not only stayed the same, they've gotten worse since the fall of Apartheid. So even if the entire government tries its best, it doesn't seem to make much of an impact.

    I don’t see acceptance of some differences as natural as likely anyway, instead there’ll be a trend towards ever more micro-management by the state to ensure “racial justice”.
     

    I've partially answered this above, but there's another factor at play here.

    If the world had a stagnating science output, I'd concede that this is a risk. But the progress in AI and in genomics is now incredibly rapid. Clearing up old crimes have now gotten dramatically easier through innovative new genomics firms like Othram. Embyro-screening is only going to rise.

    If you actually read experts in the field, all of them essentially agree that we will get an eugenics program, even if we will call it something else for optics reasons. Indeed, it's already happening at the margins.

    I think a lot of people, even on the right, underestimate how this will up-end the social theories that underpin the Western world. Most of these theories pre-supposes a future that looks very similar to the one we had in the postwar era, except for cleaner cars and a few computer gadgets. If that was the case, these theories make rational sense. But if that's not the future that we will get, it's a cardinal error.

    To be clear, what we're seeing now is different from when brilliant scholars like Hans Eysenck began to catalogue and document racial differences. There were no tools to do anything about it. It was pure observation. So it was easier to ban it because governments could not remedy the differences.

    But what happens when you can change a child's chance of getting certain diseases (already a reality today) or raise her intelligence (imminent)? Clinging onto blank-slatism in this environment will be impossible.

    Very few parents, I suspect, will want to give their kids a lifetime disadvantage if it affords them to virtue-signal. Right-wingers may think this, but if you look at white flight patterns of white liberals then they are not much different. The main difference is that white liberals lie more, including to themselves, but ultimately don't behave much different from white conservatives. I see it everyday in my own circle.

    What's true for individuals will inexorably be valid for groups. Yet I suspect the racial divide will get blurred, as rich Third World elites will ensure their kids get a bigger boost than e.g. poor whites.

    A prominent (and obnoxious) Arab politician from Berlin just wrote a newspaper article lamenting racism in German society and the need for more state programmes to combat it…and one of the alleged pieces of evidence for ubiquitous racism was that blacks consistently get lower grades at schools and in universities (not even sure such data exists, maybe she just made it up, and in any case it’s of course a talking point copied from the US). There’s no incentive for ethnic lobbyists and power-hungry politicians to admit that some differences may have other roots than just discrimination.
     

    Yes, but opportunists like these exist everywhere. Misogyny is a real problem, but that doesn't prevent some women from filing false rape charges to damage a male rival at a job. Spreading malicious rumors happens even in mostly male environments. It's what humans do. Race is just another vector. If it wasn't available, these folks would find another. I think a common fallacy is to assume that absent race, these problems would go away. I think they'd just take on another shape, but the basic motivation would remain the same (personal enrichment at the cost of someone else).

    As someone who has at times amused myself reading "dissident right" commentary on the internet, I can personally vouch that the amount of back-biting, false rumors and smear campaigns among self-described "fashy right-wingers" will give even the most gossipy old aunt a run for her money. It's also very entertaining to read, but that's a different story. To me, this argument that race introduces a grifting problem seems to be among the weakest. Humans will find a way and they don't need race for it.

    Steve Hsu has written and spoken about the genomic revolution extensively.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/steve-hsu-intelligence-embryo-selection-the-future/id1516093381?i=1000577056223

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    Have you seen this paper that purports dogs could reach a 100 IQ (human), within 100 generations of selective breeding (not embryo selection)?

    And what exactly would that be? Male golden retrievers are able to breed at 6 months. Have heard 2 years is the more ideal time for females, but in a pinch, I suspect they could also do it in 6 months. Gestation is a little over 2 months. Female dogs (goldens) are in heat twice a year.

    Have to say that it really doesn’t make much sense to me, and I am a proponent of more advanced forms of dog-breeding, such as breeding old sires to increase dog lifespans.

    Anyway, since it doesn’t make sense, I do wonder if Hsu’s rosier predictions about increasing the yield of the brain like it was maize might be a little off.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    He missed April Fools Day by months.

    Did you see Yudkowsky has flipped from cryogenics to everybody should just kill themselves there's no point?

    Replies: @songbird

  695. @keypusher
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Judges 20:16, KJV: Among all this people there were seven hundred chosen men lefthanded; every one could sling stones at an hair breadth, and not miss.

     

    I feel stupid for not having noticed this before, but at Judges 19:22-24 there's basically a verbatim repeat of the story of Lot and the men of Sodom just before its destruction, Genesis 19:5-8. Am I right to think that Judges was written first? I know very little about the OT.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    It is possible that Book of Judges was redacted before the Book of Genesis, and the story of Gibeah is also better attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls (the oldest known material specimens of Scripture) than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, however that one also is present in fragments. Both stories come from the so-called Jahwist tradition, which means they belong to the oldest Biblical stories; and they both discuss similar problems typical for Jahwist tradition. They both discuss the problem of sexual misconduct and resulting punishment, and that whether you are a Jew (Gibeah) or not a Jew (Sodom & Gomorrah), which problem of sexual conduct seems to be one of the main concerns of Jahwe, even taking over your nationality or tribe.
    Both stories also include men trying to save sinners on their own, either Abraham unsuccessfully bargaining with God for Sodom, or, successfully, the rest of Israelites allowing remnants of Benjaminites to kidnap women of others that were slain in order to prolong their tribe.

    • Thanks: keypusher
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, actually Lot daughters saved Sodomites bloodline since it is understood that their unnamed mother was a Sodomite (in OT, if someone is not named yet exists, usually she is somehow "bad". Mostly women are without names in OT, which kind of supports my earlier considerations on women being the indispensable vehicle of the Great Mother/pagan cult). Lot's daughters must have known that just Sodom & Gomorrha were destroyed, and not the entire world, so their actions were directed at preserving their bloodline, similarly to cousin marriages.

  696. Lucas Tomlinson
    @LucasFoxNews
    Raytheon CEO to @JenGriffinFNC
    on U.S. weapon shortages after 9 months of war in Ukraine: “We’ve essentially used up 13 years worth of Stinger production and 5 years worth of Javelin production. So the question is, how are we going to resupply, restock the inventories?” #RNDF2022

    [MORE]

  697. Big Serge ☦️🇺🇸🇷🇺
    @witte_sergei
    Just saw this article that was published two days ago – supports the idea that Bakhmut is a meatgrinder that is destroying whole Ukrainian units. A retired US Marine Corps colonel confirms enormous Ukrainian casualties.

    [MORE]

  698. In line with what uber chickenhawk Lindsey Graham said –

    RT
    @RT_com
    Russia state-affiliated media
    The West ‘is cynically using the Ukrainian people as cannot fodder, a battering ram against Russia, as it keeps delivering weapons and munitions to Ukraine, sending mercenaries, pushing it down the path of suicide’ – Putin

    https://on.rt.com/c68k

    [MORE]

  699. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Thulean Friend

    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote "The end of science" in the late 1990 and it still holds.

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Science-Knowledge-Twilight-Scientific/dp/0465065929

    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).

    There have been no big breakthroughs or paradigms in science in last years. Above all, the problem of energy stands out: cold fusion is still years away, and the battery technology is the biggest impediment in the quest for digitalizing everything. We still rely on oil & gas when the cliff of peak oil is just behind corner (2025 most probably).

    Physics is plagued by non-testable theories which seem to lead to nowhere (eg. string theory), whereas Grand Unification theory still did not solve problem of gravitation as well as the existence Gravitational Constant.

    Biology still believes in evolution theory despite the fact that many places in its chain are still empty.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @keypusher

    Instead of:
    “AI is just computational power recognition”

    should be:
    “AI is just computational pattern recognition”

  700. Everyone saw this coming: (1)

    Gun Shops And Customers Claim Credit Card Firms “Restrict” Firearm Purchases

    Gun rights advocates warned that a new change to the credit card industry to add a firearm and ammunition-specific Merchant Category Code (MCC) for gun stores wasn’t about tracking guns necessarily, but could lead to the denial of lawful firearms purchases by law-abiding citizens.

    In September, Visa, Mastercard, and American Express all said they would adopt the MCC code to categorize sales at gun shops; months later, several social media posts of alleged gun stores and customers claim they experienced card issues.

    Twitter account “Battlecock Tactical” tweeted, “Federal Firearms License [gun shop] in a Facebook group shared this. Looks like the doomers accurately called how that new firearms merchant code would go down.”

    Battlecock Tactical’s images show what appears to be a retail POS system at an FFL that reads $913.70 transaction was “declined.” The error code on the merchant’s computer read:

    “Transaction declined: Charge declined RESTRICTED CARD Customer bank does not allow this card to be used at this type of merchant.”

    Unless one needs to buy on credit, the obvious answer is using cash. The industry works that way. Serious gun show buyers in the historic section all have $10K+ on them. Go Ahead… Try to steal from them….

    I have periodically bought bulk ammo online. Losing that would be inconvenient.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/gun-shops-and-customers-claim-credit-card-firms-restrict-purchases

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    You are correct, everyone should use cash whenever possible. The card fees represent an invisible tax going directly to the financial institutions all the time. Using cash helps small businesses avoid these fees.
    Some businesses are using a "4% cash discount" which is something I would encourage everyone to push.

  701. @Another Polish Perspective
    @keypusher

    It is possible that Book of Judges was redacted before the Book of Genesis, and the story of Gibeah is also better attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls (the oldest known material specimens of Scripture) than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, however that one also is present in fragments. Both stories come from the so-called Jahwist tradition, which means they belong to the oldest Biblical stories; and they both discuss similar problems typical for Jahwist tradition. They both discuss the problem of sexual misconduct and resulting punishment, and that whether you are a Jew (Gibeah) or not a Jew (Sodom & Gomorrah), which problem of sexual conduct seems to be one of the main concerns of Jahwe, even taking over your nationality or tribe.
    Both stories also include men trying to save sinners on their own, either Abraham unsuccessfully bargaining with God for Sodom, or, successfully, the rest of Israelites allowing remnants of Benjaminites to kidnap women of others that were slain in order to prolong their tribe.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, actually Lot daughters saved Sodomites bloodline since it is understood that their unnamed mother was a Sodomite (in OT, if someone is not named yet exists, usually she is somehow “bad”. Mostly women are without names in OT, which kind of supports my earlier considerations on women being the indispensable vehicle of the Great Mother/pagan cult). Lot’s daughters must have known that just Sodom & Gomorrha were destroyed, and not the entire world, so their actions were directed at preserving their bloodline, similarly to cousin marriages.

  702. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Marian tradition

     

    This is logical theology to derive that she was holy, although you have to add that, we can't say motivation is only logic. It was also one of the most popular features they later added to the religion, that was popular in the pre-existing religions. There is integration of one of the most popular local customs and religions of new nationalities joining the Christian community in the Roman empire in the second century.

    On the other hand, adding new component of Marian worship to the religion, creates contradictions to original teaching of Jesus and the emphasis of the New Testament.

    There is partly logical derivation of theology. Why would god choose Mary, if she was not a holy woman? Logically, she should be the most holy woman of the time of birth. But it is also adding one of the most popular worships of mother gods that already exists in the new markets and nationalities Christianity spread to in the centuries after Jesus has died.

    It's difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to "pagan" religions of people who later develop it.

    So, logically Mary should be the most holy human woman, according to logical theology which is developed from the Bible. But then there is contradictions to texts they inherit, why Mary not important in the New Testament.

    She is one of less important people in the Gospels, so sometimes she is part of scenes, where she is refered without name. And this is also matching important evangelical teaching of Jesus, where he says often your family is not important, but the connection you often need to abandon when you join the heavenly community.

    In the oldest source gospel of Mark which is base of later Gospels (Mark is base text which the later Gospels are deriving), the only reference to his mother, when Jesus says, his family is not important and she is not his mother.

    This is when Jesus is first becoming famous in Galilee. They discuss as significant people coming even from Southern Lebanon (Tyre and Sidon), which is 60 kilometers walk, to listen to him.

    But because he is becoming famous, his family want control of Jesus, as they think he is crazy. Nowadays, they might have asked the local medical authority to control him, like the family of Britney Spears. His brother and mother are apparently traveling over 20 kilometers (from Nazareth to Sea of Galilee) for this.

    https://i.imgur.com/xDVl5oj.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+3%3A20-35&version=NIV

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary "this world community and family" and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It's an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.

    There is also in John, the first miracle Jesus is converting water to wine, seen by his mother. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202&version=NIV This is not in Mark, although it would be later in the career of Jesus if you tried to match the narratives.


    Mary the Mother of God and those Greek and Roman deities are likely

     

    It is very popular introduction to the religion according to human nature as most people love their mothers since their first conscious existence. However, to emphasize this is opposed to culture of the first century in Judea and Galliee and the early part of the religion, including views of Jesus.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.

    But it is emotionally a part of Christianity which is most accessible for new cultures and was until recently most popular aspect in regions like Italy.

    I posted before in discussion with Coconut about the church of Annunciation. In the church, they add painting from every culture of Mary. (There are many also inside the church).

    There is the Ukrainian Mary for the Ukrainian artists, Chinese Mary for the Chinese artists, African Mary. Love of mother, is the most accessible or universal part to be included in the religion and people can match to their own life.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4JtRYgJPbA

    Replies: @Coconuts

    It’s difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to “pagan” religions of people who later develop it.

    Iirc, isn’t this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT.

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary “this world community and family” and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It’s an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.

    This is present in Mark, but it struck me it is not a complete portrayal of what kind of teachings Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus’ relations with his father, which go in the other direction to this. I checked Mark’s Gospel and I think the impression I got was right.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.

    I am not sure what your reconstruction of this ‘original religion’ involves and what sources it comes from but I have been intrigued by it since we started discussing these topics. Protestants, for example, have spiritual and theological reasons for adopting a strongly historicist approach (e.g. like TULIP for Calvinists), but if it is just a question of accurately describing things that were believed at particular times, why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?
     
    Because these pagans did not have any specific doctrine (a cult without story, so to say), or it was confined to some narrow circle of high priests, like druids. To be true, Torah was also to be read only yearly to people by Jewish priests, but later Judaism started to focus on its texts more, generating proto-democratic communities like Qumran and Essenes.

    On the other hand, the Great Mother cult developed into rather elitist Eleusinian Mysteries, whose initiates were limited by the mysteries nature and could not talk to profanes. Likewise, we have no writings on Phoenician religion from Phoenicians and Carthaginians, who were pretty oligarchic.

    So, in some ways, religion corresponds to social organisation. You can see this problem in the history of Jews, where God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets, since it is kings who will become one of the main venues for idolatry in Israel, and the list of bad kings is long: Jeroboam, Ahab, Ahaziah.... etc. In the end, being monarchy ends very badly for Israelites; they are exiled and become "Ten lost tribes"

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @Coconuts

    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    reconstruction of this ‘original religion’ involves
     
    Jesus was using "oral teaching", so it might be possible to say you need to "reconstruct" his teaching like in Socrates, as there are only books written after he dies, nothing is there which he wrote directly.

    But Mark is written around time of the destruction of the Second Temple epoch (60-70) and the last canonized text will be written 110 AD as the highest estimate.

    So, for the belief of the new religion (or sect) between around 60 AD to 110 AD at latest, we know the self-reported views directly. There is not need for "reconstruction", unless you believe the New Testament is not representing the views of the sect or emerging religion (like if there was secret teaching they do not include openly in their publication).

    Religion of the first century viewed Mary as one of the more not important people. Unless you would view the canonized books as complete misrepresentation of views of the sect (or developing religion) while Jesus was teaching, which is around 25(?)-33 AD, then we would extend this to from around 25(?)-110 AD.

    If canonized books were complete misrepresentation of views in lifetime of Jesus, then we have to say it is a blackbox. Even then, as we would not know views of lifetime of Jesus, then we would be able to talk about the openly reported views of around 60 AD to 110 AD, which we know directly.


    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?
     
    In the first century (also the second century, but this is less interesting), elevation of Mary is not part of the new religion. At least we know this, not to the extent we can exclude square-circles, but perhaps almost to extent we know things like "Paris is the capital of France", or "Germany invaded Poland in 1939".

    As we know Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, but the question "why Germany invaded Poland", would include speculation for the motives, at least perhaps for amateurs.

    What is the motivation they added the worship of Mary, or elevation of Mary, to the religion in the later centuries? I'm not sure, but would perhaps speculate it is not only logical derivation from the question "why would god choose her" i.e. that he would choose a holy woman.

    There is the theological argument, of why would this woman is selected. Perhaps the theological argument is an important motive. By the 5th century, Mary has become is already central theological debate, with Nestorius exiled because of argument about her status.

    But there is also possible speculation about the more common sense motive, this addition matches popular and common views of the new cultures the religion spreads (i.e. historical "mother gods" of the people who are joining the religion) and how it is extremely popular part of religion even today.

    This argument is supported by cost of adding the new part to the religion, as it creates contradiction with emphasis of New Testament and also possibly contradiction with important teaching like Mark 3:20-35.

    As we know in the later centuries, there are arguments about addition, which is probably inevitable from the design perspective, as you can add a new balcony to your house, but someone would complain if it is not part of the original design and not be supported by foundations. On the other hand, there is no doubt, that our new balcony was one of the most popular parts of the house and continues as this today.


    this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT

     

    Jesus is the most important person in the New Testament, with miracles, sometimes human, but also sometimes has properties similar to a demigod.

    So, when later theology was written about incarnation, it can be something which first century people did not believe. But theological derivation can be still mainly consistent with a lot of New Testament (although of course, not perfectly) and belief of its writers.

    Elevating Mary is different and more of a problem, as the writers of New Testament do not view her as important and also Jesus does not view her as important (according to those writers), including in the direct reference where Jesus teaches his brother and mother are not his real family.


    Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus’ relations with his father, which go in the other direction t
     
    New Testament (which is at least representing views in 60-110 AD) has quite a voluntarist morality, where they say hundreds of times that the individuals' choice is the determination of their fate, not their collective origin, This is also often in the teaching of Jesus. It is closer to Socrates, than some of the Iron age stories of the Old Testament.

    But you can see there are sometimes parts of this modern New Testament which remember more of Iron Age views. So, in gospels Matthew/ Luke https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A20-23&version=ASV Jesus is angry with the cities on lake Galilee, in particular where he was teaching in the beautiful city of Capernaum.

    Statistically, if you assume a property of "holy people", there would be mix of "holy people" and "less holy", in Capernaum, as any characteristic will usually be larger within group than between group. But here all the tribe there is going to Hades because Jesus was unpopular in the city. Ancient Judaism was already significantly individualist and voluntarist in a lot of the Second Temple times, but there is with this story the connection to the older texts of Genesis.

    So you can see occassionally a little of the older mood there. There is sense of the mood after the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD).


    he seemed to be explaining it using methods of comparative religion and some psychology of religion and I am pretty sure he is not a Protestant.
     
    Protestant or Catholic can walk over bridge. Perhaps Catholic believes it is a holy bridge, Protestant believes it is not a holy bridge. They can argue about whether it is a holy bridge or not. But the bridge is also originally something in the real world, not only subjective views about it (although of course these views will also be causally explained, related to their Skinner box conditioning, or on a lower level e.g. release of dopamine, when near this bridge the Catholic will feel warm emotions, the Protestant will not). For the engineer who builds the bridge, will have been thinking about the objective world, not so much the emotional attachment. This world is the same for both Protestants and Catholics, or wouldn't vary with religion.

    Arguments between Protestants and Catholics are interesting historical information, or in emotional view of the understanding of the views of the second millennium.

    If you were historian of the Modern and Early Modern European epoch, arguments of Protestants and Catholics would be interesting as have causal effects in those particular centuries.

    But, for us, who are not working as Protestant or Catholic theologians, the more interesting question can be whether this speculation is accurate or not accurate description of what actually happened with these events from the 3rd century. This is what happened in the real world. I'm not sure the theologians justification for why Mary is elevated would be the complete explanation.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  703. @A123
    Everyone saw this coming: (1)

    Gun Shops And Customers Claim Credit Card Firms "Restrict" Firearm Purchases

    Gun rights advocates warned that a new change to the credit card industry to add a firearm and ammunition-specific Merchant Category Code (MCC) for gun stores wasn't about tracking guns necessarily, but could lead to the denial of lawful firearms purchases by law-abiding citizens.

    In September, Visa, Mastercard, and American Express all said they would adopt the MCC code to categorize sales at gun shops; months later, several social media posts of alleged gun stores and customers claim they experienced card issues.

    Twitter account "Battlecock Tactical" tweeted, "Federal Firearms License [gun shop] in a Facebook group shared this. Looks like the doomers accurately called how that new firearms merchant code would go down."

    Battlecock Tactical's images show what appears to be a retail POS system at an FFL that reads $913.70 transaction was "declined." The error code on the merchant's computer read:

    "Transaction declined: Charge declined RESTRICTED CARD Customer bank does not allow this card to be used at this type of merchant."
     
    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/pos2.jpg

     

    Unless one needs to buy on credit, the obvious answer is using cash. The industry works that way. Serious gun show buyers in the historic section all have $10K+ on them. Go Ahead... Try to steal from them....

    I have periodically bought bulk ammo online. Losing that would be inconvenient.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/gun-shops-and-customers-claim-credit-card-firms-restrict-purchases

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    You are correct, everyone should use cash whenever possible. The card fees represent an invisible tax going directly to the financial institutions all the time. Using cash helps small businesses avoid these fees.
    Some businesses are using a “4% cash discount” which is something I would encourage everyone to push.

    • Agree: A123
  704. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    google image search does not show that one on the first page.

    Your previous test had five hits with the name of the author and the English translation right there plain as day on the first page.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Ok so “X cannot read Chinese” cannot be falsified by this test. There would have to be other tests of fluency with various levels of subjectivity.

    John Searle had a Gedenkenexperiment for this–
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

  705. @songbird
    @Thulean Friend

    Have you seen this paper that purports dogs could reach a 100 IQ (human), within 100 generations of selective breeding (not embryo selection)?

    And what exactly would that be? Male golden retrievers are able to breed at 6 months. Have heard 2 years is the more ideal time for females, but in a pinch, I suspect they could also do it in 6 months. Gestation is a little over 2 months. Female dogs (goldens) are in heat twice a year.

    Have to say that it really doesn't make much sense to me, and I am a proponent of more advanced forms of dog-breeding, such as breeding old sires to increase dog lifespans.

    Anyway, since it doesn't make sense, I do wonder if Hsu's rosier predictions about increasing the yield of the brain like it was maize might be a little off.


    https://twitter.com/0_hipotezi/status/1601237511690670081?s=20&t=DTJZ_uFq6IG_HrWu74Jy1g

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    He missed April Fools Day by months.

    Did you see Yudkowsky has flipped from cryogenics to everybody should just kill themselves there’s no point?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    He missed April Fools Day by months.
     
    I still can't tell whether it is meant to be satire or not. Don't think it is possible to know...

    Did you see Yudkowsky has flipped from cryogenics to everybody should just kill themselves there’s no point?
     
    Roko was saying something like, we shouldn't fund cataclysmic risk management (diverting asteroids from hitting Earth, etc.) because that will just create a worse future timeline, where things never become unpozzed.
  706. @yurivku
    @AnonfromTN

    Glad to know you're still here and strugling for good. But it's useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots. I gave up reading here, but will confirm - we, Russians, now hate and despise the West. For EU it's mostly despising and for US mostly hateness. And it's now for centuries.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Glad to know you’re still here and strugling for good. But it’s useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots.

    Thanks! However, I disagree about all Westerners being hopelessly bad. 30+ years of living among them, working with them, and talking to them convinced me that the majority are decent people, although many are severely brainwashed by relentless propaganda. Yet there are still quite a few who use their brains and come to inevitable (if you think logically) conclusion that everything official Western propaganda says is either lies or blatant lies. Western people are going through the stage Soviet people went through 40-50 years ago: they realize that if you want to know what’s going on, you cannot take MSM “reports” at face value, but need to think for yourself. Internet helps. When you read the comments on various sites from the people living in Asia, Latin America, or Africa, you see that the majority of the world population does not believe a word the empire and its lackeys say. Germans, of all people, coined the word “lugenpresse” (lying press), even though Germany might appear monolithic looking from the outside and listening to their politicians, who are pathetic servants of the empire.

    There is hope. But anything good will likely come to the fore many years after Ukies are crushed. So, the people of Donbass are right that crushing current Kiev regime is #1 priority for Russia and all decent people of the world. Today to Nuland’s “fuck the EU” Russians should add “fuck the empire and all its sidekicks”. That’s the only way to make tomorrow better than today.

    • Replies: @yurivku
    @AnonfromTN

    I understand how difficult is for you to recognize simple thing - they aren't curable. Only through head cut off. So continue fight windmills - it's no bad in that, but no good either. Ukraine can be cured if all fascists establishment will be eliminated and few decades passed , but it's not possible for the West without nukes, but those leave no choice for healthy part of humanity.


    There is hope.
     
    I'm afraid there's not much of hope. I feel pity for you - you're in hostile environment, but it was your choice. And to be clear - I'm not Putin's fan, actually I've lot of questions to him, but this abscess should've been opened. I actually warned it 3 years ago, nobody beleive it this time...
    , @yurivku
    @AnonfromTN

    And a few words on current US/EU goverments. I think they could make a wonderful orchesta playing with their dicks on piano. Those who have no dicks could make a little operation, it's easy on West AFAIK. Zelensky can by in center, it's his clever idea. We, the world doomed to listen ...
    Think it's quite exact picture of our stupid word we are living in

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  707. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Thulean Friend

    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote "The end of science" in the late 1990 and it still holds.

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Science-Knowledge-Twilight-Scientific/dp/0465065929

    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).

    There have been no big breakthroughs or paradigms in science in last years. Above all, the problem of energy stands out: cold fusion is still years away, and the battery technology is the biggest impediment in the quest for digitalizing everything. We still rely on oil & gas when the cliff of peak oil is just behind corner (2025 most probably).

    Physics is plagued by non-testable theories which seem to lead to nowhere (eg. string theory), whereas Grand Unification theory still did not solve problem of gravitation as well as the existence Gravitational Constant.

    Biology still believes in evolution theory despite the fact that many places in its chain are still empty.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @keypusher

    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote “The end of science” in the late 1990 and it still holds.

    IMHO the even more important issue is the number of schools are no longer interested in science and engineering: (1)

    [From 2018] A state-of-the-art pedestrian bridge hailed as the inevitably wondrous result of diversity in engineering has collapsed within days of being paraded before the media. Did I say inconvenient? I should have said symbolic.

    “Diversity Bridge” (that’s not the structure’s official name, but I think it fits) was designed to connect Florida International University to the city of Sweetwater, where many FIU students and staff reside. The bridge, installed (though not yet opened to the public) a mere four days before its failure, spanned a busy Miami highway, and the collapse crushed cars and people underneath. Authorities report at least six deaths.

    Prior to pancaking, Diversity Bridge had been championed as “an engineering feat come to life.” One of the geniuses who accomplished this “feat” is an engineer who was hailed by President Obama in 2015 as a “champion of change”: Atorod Azizinamini, director of FIU’s Accelerated Bridge Construction Center (now renamed the Accelerated Bridge Destruction Center). The firm that built the bridge, Munilla Construction Management (MCM), is run by the Munilla brothers—Raul, Juan, Jorge, Lou, Fernando, and Pedro (is that a construction firm or the latest incarnation of Menudo?). And then we have Leonor Flores, MCM’s senior manager.

    Hopefully this is another area that Trump’s 2nd term can improve on. MAGA should reset the research grants awards process to what it was 4+ decades ago.. Projects should be about science, not SJW/DIE special privilege.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.takimag.com/article/diversity_bridge_is_falling_down_my_fair_lady_david_cole/

  708. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)

    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it. That is, they may receive something of an education in it, but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    It’s Classical Chinese poetry, or kanshi in Japanese, written in traditional characters.

    I translated it into German in the previous thread to make use of the compound word feature shared with Chinese (Bronzepfauenturm).

    but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.

    I gave a similar test to John Derbyshire and he reply correctly within hours.

    大丈夫处世,不能立功建业,不几与草木同腐乎!

    I challenge you Mr. Derbyshire, to cite the source of this quote from a well known literary reference.

    San Guo, ch. 47, 1st page

    https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/june-diary-11-items-packers-four-americas-lying-flat-in-china-notice-anything-about-1967-miss-america-finalists-etc/#comment-4755119

    • Replies: @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Akira Kurosawa had something of a knowledge of classical Chinese poetry, both since his father had chosen to decorate his childhood home mostly with scrolls of it, preferring them for the most part to paintings, and since his father had also sent him to calligraphy school, for a certain period as a boy.

    According to him, he only recognized one poem fluently. A Night Spend by the Maple Bridge, by the Tang poet Chang Chi:


    While I watch the moon go down, a crow caws through the frost;
    Under the shadows of maple-trees a fisherman moves with his torch;
    And I hear, from beyond Su-chou, from the temple on Cold Mountain,
    Ringing for me, here in my boat, the midnight bell.
     
    And this was for a rather idiosyncratic reason: his father liked to hang etchings from Hashan Temple, and they were often missing characters due to erosion. His father would speak the words that were missing to his son, and in this way it was burned into his brain.

    Other than that he knew only one line:
    For your sword, use the Full Moon Blue Dragon Blade
    For your study, read the Tso commentary on the Spring and Autumn Annals.

    Replies: @songbird

  709. @Yevardian
    @AnonfromTN


    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.
     
    I thinking... usually the non-synoptic John is considered the 'mystical' one, but off-hand I don't recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded, though Paul frequently does in his letters.
    If I remember right, both Luke and Matthew drew upon a lost source 'Q', both postdating Mark by a few years. And Luke had quite good Greek, whilst Matthew and Mark clearly show the influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax and even some sloppy grammar in Mark's case.

    The NT apocrypha has curiosity value sure, but people get an over inflated idea of the importance of the apocryphal from sensationalist reporting. There's very little evidence that any of them were every widely accepted ('The Shepherd' except, though its content is very conventional anyway), the gnostic gospels were certainly always marginal. Others were simply never widely disseminated because of the banal reason they were of poor literary quality (gospels of Jesus' childhood and the like).
    Probably the most radical and widespread early Christian movement, Marcionism, was notable mostly for rejection of the entire OT.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.
     
    For some reason I could never get into Bulgakov. I liked his 'Doctor's Notes' and 'White Guard' much better than 'Master', although perhaps that's simply due to the stressed circumstances in which I read the last one. Only truly Soviet author I've really taken a shine to is Dovlatov and his (semi-fictionalised?) autobiographical trashy escapades.
    The greatest Russian authors of the 20th Century to me would be Nabokov, Bunin and Bely.

    @Yahya

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.
     
    Classical concernts were a pretty regular event for us since my father plays in an orchestra. You'll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Dmitry, @Yahya

    off-hand I don’t recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded

    When I was studying at the university in the USSR, they made us read Lenin. That’s who Mark reminded me of.

  710. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Thulean Friend

    The science output is indeed stagnating, especially in terms of returns for money and work infused. John Horgan wrote "The end of science" in the late 1990 and it still holds.

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Science-Knowledge-Twilight-Scientific/dp/0465065929

    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).

    There have been no big breakthroughs or paradigms in science in last years. Above all, the problem of energy stands out: cold fusion is still years away, and the battery technology is the biggest impediment in the quest for digitalizing everything. We still rely on oil & gas when the cliff of peak oil is just behind corner (2025 most probably).

    Physics is plagued by non-testable theories which seem to lead to nowhere (eg. string theory), whereas Grand Unification theory still did not solve problem of gravitation as well as the existence Gravitational Constant.

    Biology still believes in evolution theory despite the fact that many places in its chain are still empty.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @keypusher

    AI is just computational power recognition, and it is such operations that power genomics, as all that research mostly relies on finding patterns in big data (I have a friend who wrote software specifically for such research).

    This is trivial, but I asked Chat GPT whether the Ruy Lopez chess opening was better for White or Black. I got:

    The Ruy Lopez opening is generally considered to be better for White, as it allows White to control the center of the board and develop their pieces quickly. The Ruy Lopez is named after the Spanish bishop Ruy López de Segura, who wrote one of the first books on chess in the 16th century. In the Ruy Lopez opening, White starts by moving their king’s pawn two squares forward, followed by the knight to f3, the bishop to c4, and the queen to d3. This formation allows White to control the center of the board and put pressure on Black’s position.

    Black has a few different options for how to respond to the Ruy Lopez opening. One common response is the Berlin Defense, in which Black moves their knight to c6 and their bishop to e7. This defense allows Black to protect their pawn on e5 and to create counterplay on the queenside. Another option for Black is the Marshall Defense, in which Black moves their knight to c6 and their bishop to d7. This defense allows Black to control the d5 square and to create counterplay on the kingside.

    Overall, the Ruy Lopez opening is considered to be better for White, as it allows White to control the center of the board and to put pressure on Black’s position. However, Black has a few different options for how to respond, and the game can still be very complex and challenging for both sides.

    It sounds authoritative, but as far as specifics go this is gibberish (the white bishop goes to b5, not c4, that literally defines the opening, the black bishop often doesn’t go to e7 in the Berlin, etc.).

    Similarly, I asked ChatGPT to compare The Song of Achilles and the Iliad. It knew that The Song of Achilles was a 2011 novel by Madeline Miller, but everything else it said about the novel was wrong (it thought that the novel was narrated by Achilles (nope, Patroclus) and the gods and goddesses were largely absent (Achilles’ mother Thetis is a major character).

    In short, it can sound like it knows what is talking about while speaking absolute nonsense. Just what the world needs, a bull**** generator.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  711. @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    Is that classical Chinese? (I am ignorant of Chinese)
    I was under the impression that most Chinese are illiterate in it.
     
    It’s traditional hieroglyph writing. It is used in Taiwan and Hong Kong, whereas mainland China adopted simplified writing (fewer elements in most hieroglyphs). So, mainlanders are unlikely to be literate in it, except highly educated ones, whereas residents of Taiwan and Hong Kong should be able to read it.

    As writing with hieroglyphs is mindbogglingly complex, Chinese literacy comes in grades: you need to know maybe 2,000 hieroglyphs to read a newspaper, whereas an educated person knows ~10,000 hieroglyphs.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Vasily Chuikov who led the Soviet advisory group to ROC was fluent in Chinese.

    He was also said to have advocated using nukes against PRC during the Sino-Soviet Conflict. I only read this from a Chinese source so don’t know the full veracity.

    It’s traditional hieroglyph writing.

    The Mongolian/Manchu script is originally derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs. Chinese is logographic and used for centuries in Japan and formerly Korea.

    That’s why its China Japan and Korea — Bromance of Three Kingdoms,

    Not,

    China and Russia — an opportunistic quasi-alliance based on limited shared culture. I wouldn’t be able to keep up with a discussion about the Bible for example.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    China and Russia — an opportunistic quasi-alliance based on limited shared culture.
     
    What are you complaining about? Current alliance between Russia and China is largely the product of idiotic imperial policy. So, complain to the imperial elites.

    Russia shares virtually no culture with China (unless you count as culture what Chinese borrowed from the USSR: e.g., party buildings in Beijing are immediately recognizable as such for someone who grew up in the USSR and saw Soviet party buildings). Very long border between the RF and PRC requires good neighborliness, but does not require an alliance.

    The only thing that unites Russia and China (as well as several disparate countries that also have little to nothing in common with either or with each other, like Iran and Venezuela) is refusal to toe the imperial line and intention to remain sovereign.

    What’s more, the imperial elites keep doing Putin’s work for him. Examples abound. Lukashenko in Belarus kept maneuvering between the RF and the West. Failed Western attempt at a coup against him made him a firm RF supporter. Putin did not want Russian oligarchs to export their money to the West, admonishing them repeatedly, but without much effect. Western thieves stealing their assets in violation of all applicable laws are successfully doing his convincing for him. Iranian ayatollahs used to call the USSR “little Satan” (as compared to the “big Satan” they called the US). Imperial policies moved Iran firmly into pro-Russian camp. And so on.

  712. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It’s difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to “pagan” religions of people who later develop it.
     
    Iirc, isn't this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT.

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary “this world community and family” and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It’s an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.
     

    This is present in Mark, but it struck me it is not a complete portrayal of what kind of teachings Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus' relations with his father, which go in the other direction to this. I checked Mark's Gospel and I think the impression I got was right.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.
     
    I am not sure what your reconstruction of this 'original religion' involves and what sources it comes from but I have been intrigued by it since we started discussing these topics. Protestants, for example, have spiritual and theological reasons for adopting a strongly historicist approach (e.g. like TULIP for Calvinists), but if it is just a question of accurately describing things that were believed at particular times, why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?

    Because these pagans did not have any specific doctrine (a cult without story, so to say), or it was confined to some narrow circle of high priests, like druids. To be true, Torah was also to be read only yearly to people by Jewish priests, but later Judaism started to focus on its texts more, generating proto-democratic communities like Qumran and Essenes.

    On the other hand, the Great Mother cult developed into rather elitist Eleusinian Mysteries, whose initiates were limited by the mysteries nature and could not talk to profanes. Likewise, we have no writings on Phoenician religion from Phoenicians and Carthaginians, who were pretty oligarchic.

    So, in some ways, religion corresponds to social organisation. You can see this problem in the history of Jews, where God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets, since it is kings who will become one of the main venues for idolatry in Israel, and the list of bad kings is long: Jeroboam, Ahab, Ahaziah…. etc. In the end, being monarchy ends very badly for Israelites; they are exiled and become “Ten lost tribes”

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think the Holy Mary cult is a very good example of a massive cult without story (she is just the mother of Jesus), and thus supports the theory that she is an emanation of the Great Mother (Mary Magdalene may not be directly her, but the proliferation of Marys around Jesus allows us to think they all may be avatars of one being).

    , @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets,
     
    Historically, Christianity had a solid handle on this innate conflict. Preventing priests from marrying (officially) eliminates inherited church positions. The royal family appoints senior priests, thus keeping church and state linked. Unless there was a falling out among family, which did happen from time to time.

    The mistaken concept that priests must be celibate appeared later, creating huge problems. In the historical milieu, priests had sons who filled out the 2nd tier of the church hierarchy. Literacy was often scarce, thus having dad teach you reading and writing was a huge leg up.

    The same thing applied to the nobility. In GoT, Jon Snow chose to Go To The Wall. A less headstrong bastard would have leveraged the training into Knighthood. If Bronn can get a title.....
    ____

    A unified Priest-King is arguably the worst form of government. A modern example is the zealotry of the Ayatollah & his Mullahs. Total detachment from reality, in favour of religious fervor, is a very bad characteristic for any government.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.politico.eu/cdn-cgi/image/width=1280,quality=80,onerror=redirect,format=auto/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/09/Kal-econ-cartoon-12-9-22synd-scaled.jpg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I was asking Dmitri about it because he seemed to be explaining it using methods of comparative religion and some psychology of religion and I am pretty sure he is not a Protestant.

    On the surface this sounds like more antiquarianism, how is it important in a religious or theological sense? Or is it a model from political science, anthropology or something?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  713. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?
     
    Because these pagans did not have any specific doctrine (a cult without story, so to say), or it was confined to some narrow circle of high priests, like druids. To be true, Torah was also to be read only yearly to people by Jewish priests, but later Judaism started to focus on its texts more, generating proto-democratic communities like Qumran and Essenes.

    On the other hand, the Great Mother cult developed into rather elitist Eleusinian Mysteries, whose initiates were limited by the mysteries nature and could not talk to profanes. Likewise, we have no writings on Phoenician religion from Phoenicians and Carthaginians, who were pretty oligarchic.

    So, in some ways, religion corresponds to social organisation. You can see this problem in the history of Jews, where God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets, since it is kings who will become one of the main venues for idolatry in Israel, and the list of bad kings is long: Jeroboam, Ahab, Ahaziah.... etc. In the end, being monarchy ends very badly for Israelites; they are exiled and become "Ten lost tribes"

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @Coconuts

    I think the Holy Mary cult is a very good example of a massive cult without story (she is just the mother of Jesus), and thus supports the theory that she is an emanation of the Great Mother (Mary Magdalene may not be directly her, but the proliferation of Marys around Jesus allows us to think they all may be avatars of one being).

  714. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?
     
    Because these pagans did not have any specific doctrine (a cult without story, so to say), or it was confined to some narrow circle of high priests, like druids. To be true, Torah was also to be read only yearly to people by Jewish priests, but later Judaism started to focus on its texts more, generating proto-democratic communities like Qumran and Essenes.

    On the other hand, the Great Mother cult developed into rather elitist Eleusinian Mysteries, whose initiates were limited by the mysteries nature and could not talk to profanes. Likewise, we have no writings on Phoenician religion from Phoenicians and Carthaginians, who were pretty oligarchic.

    So, in some ways, religion corresponds to social organisation. You can see this problem in the history of Jews, where God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets, since it is kings who will become one of the main venues for idolatry in Israel, and the list of bad kings is long: Jeroboam, Ahab, Ahaziah.... etc. In the end, being monarchy ends very badly for Israelites; they are exiled and become "Ten lost tribes"

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @Coconuts

    God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets,

    Historically, Christianity had a solid handle on this innate conflict. Preventing priests from marrying (officially) eliminates inherited church positions. The royal family appoints senior priests, thus keeping church and state linked. Unless there was a falling out among family, which did happen from time to time.

    The mistaken concept that priests must be celibate appeared later, creating huge problems. In the historical milieu, priests had sons who filled out the 2nd tier of the church hierarchy. Literacy was often scarce, thus having dad teach you reading and writing was a huge leg up.

    The same thing applied to the nobility. In GoT, Jon Snow chose to Go To The Wall. A less headstrong bastard would have leveraged the training into Knighthood. If Bronn can get a title…..
    ____

    A unified Priest-King is arguably the worst form of government. A modern example is the zealotry of the Ayatollah & his Mullahs. Total detachment from reality, in favour of religious fervor, is a very bad characteristic for any government.

    PEACE 😇

     

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Well, protestants love their kings-priests, or queen-priests, styled after King-Priest Melchizedek (who is an archetype of Jesus in OT). But king-priests seems to have originated in Phoenician city-states where they ruled over their oligarchic councils on the basis of consensus. When you realize that in the UK system, the Privy Council of King Charles III is actually a kind of parallel government in waiting, you realize this is true.

    I am the great opponent of inheriting social positions as this is the backbone of oligarchy, whether secular or sacred one... According to OT, in Israel there was no prescribed inheritance for priests' position, since it was limited to one tribe - Levites, not a single family. And not all Levites were priests - some were just guardians in the Temple. Besides, OT also explicitly says about "evil sons of priests of Jahwe" few times, so certainly inheritance of position was not designed.

    The sons of Bach were never like Bach etc... looking to the world of film, sons are always worse than fathers... I heard Bollywood especially is infested with sons & daughters of famous parents; maybe this is the reason why Indian cinema appeal is limited to the subcontinent.
    Even in the West there is now an expression "nepo kids" for this phenomenon.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Christianity had a handle on this - to some extent - because it banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism. On the other hand, Pope was giving dispensas left and right anyway.

    In Christianity/Judaism, you can see the shadow of oligarchy in the obsessive demand that Messiah must be from Davidic line, and only from the Davidic line, despite the fact that this line was plagued by sin and there were surely many other good people around; also note the fact that God never favoured a single bloodline too long.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

  715. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    It's Classical Chinese poetry, or kanshi in Japanese, written in traditional characters.

    I translated it into German in the previous thread to make use of the compound word feature shared with Chinese (Bronzepfauenturm).


    but it is not the sort of thing that survives in the minds of most people for long.
     
    I gave a similar test to John Derbyshire and he reply correctly within hours.

    大丈夫处世,不能立功建业,不几与草木同腐乎!

    I challenge you Mr. Derbyshire, to cite the source of this quote from a well known literary reference.

     


    San Guo, ch. 47, 1st page

     

    https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/june-diary-11-items-packers-four-americas-lying-flat-in-china-notice-anything-about-1967-miss-america-finalists-etc/#comment-4755119

    Replies: @songbird

    Akira Kurosawa had something of a knowledge of classical Chinese poetry, both since his father had chosen to decorate his childhood home mostly with scrolls of it, preferring them for the most part to paintings, and since his father had also sent him to calligraphy school, for a certain period as a boy.

    According to him, he only recognized one poem fluently. A Night Spend by the Maple Bridge, by the Tang poet Chang Chi:

    While I watch the moon go down, a crow caws through the frost;
    Under the shadows of maple-trees a fisherman moves with his torch;
    And I hear, from beyond Su-chou, from the temple on Cold Mountain,
    Ringing for me, here in my boat, the midnight bell.

    And this was for a rather idiosyncratic reason: his father liked to hang etchings from Hashan Temple, and they were often missing characters due to erosion. His father would speak the words that were missing to his son, and in this way it was burned into his brain.

    Other than that he knew only one line:
    For your sword, use the Full Moon Blue Dragon Blade
    For your study, read the Tso commentary on the Spring and Autumn Annals.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @songbird


    from Hashan Temple
     
    Should read "Hanshan"
    ______
    Could the Denisovans speak? If we consider that Papuans are often 5% Denisovan and have an enormous linguistic diversity, how probable is it that a few words of Papuan survive, perhaps, in some phoneme-shifted form.
  716. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets,
     
    Historically, Christianity had a solid handle on this innate conflict. Preventing priests from marrying (officially) eliminates inherited church positions. The royal family appoints senior priests, thus keeping church and state linked. Unless there was a falling out among family, which did happen from time to time.

    The mistaken concept that priests must be celibate appeared later, creating huge problems. In the historical milieu, priests had sons who filled out the 2nd tier of the church hierarchy. Literacy was often scarce, thus having dad teach you reading and writing was a huge leg up.

    The same thing applied to the nobility. In GoT, Jon Snow chose to Go To The Wall. A less headstrong bastard would have leveraged the training into Knighthood. If Bronn can get a title.....
    ____

    A unified Priest-King is arguably the worst form of government. A modern example is the zealotry of the Ayatollah & his Mullahs. Total detachment from reality, in favour of religious fervor, is a very bad characteristic for any government.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.politico.eu/cdn-cgi/image/width=1280,quality=80,onerror=redirect,format=auto/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/09/Kal-econ-cartoon-12-9-22synd-scaled.jpg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, protestants love their kings-priests, or queen-priests, styled after King-Priest Melchizedek (who is an archetype of Jesus in OT). But king-priests seems to have originated in Phoenician city-states where they ruled over their oligarchic councils on the basis of consensus. When you realize that in the UK system, the Privy Council of King Charles III is actually a kind of parallel government in waiting, you realize this is true.

    I am the great opponent of inheriting social positions as this is the backbone of oligarchy, whether secular or sacred one… According to OT, in Israel there was no prescribed inheritance for priests’ position, since it was limited to one tribe – Levites, not a single family. And not all Levites were priests – some were just guardians in the Temple. Besides, OT also explicitly says about “evil sons of priests of Jahwe” few times, so certainly inheritance of position was not designed.

    The sons of Bach were never like Bach etc… looking to the world of film, sons are always worse than fathers… I heard Bollywood especially is infested with sons & daughters of famous parents; maybe this is the reason why Indian cinema appeal is limited to the subcontinent.
    Even in the West there is now an expression “nepo kids” for this phenomenon.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective


    According to OT, in Israel there was no prescribed inheritance for priests’ position, since it was limited to one tribe – Levites, not a single family.
     
    Theory. Practice. Just like Harvard in 2022 the Cohens got the inside track.
  717. A surprisingly real possibility: (1)

    That raises another question about the only other member of Schumer’s caucus to follow that same pattern. And that question will only grow more acute for Joe Manchin as his own re-election date approaches. Manchin can’t win again in West Virginia as a Democrat, especially if Joe Biden ends up at the top of the ticket.

    But can he win as an independent?

    That’s not as easy a calculation as Sinema faced. In her case, as Philip Klein points out, progressives had made it clear that they would offer a robust primary challenge to Sinema in 2024. By opting out of the party, Sinema can sidestep that and force Democrats to decide whether they want to endorse her to prevent a general-election split, or fight her in November 2024 and hand the seat to the GOP:

    Schumer personally gave his word on Permitting Reform for hydrocarbon projects. And, he has failed to deliver for a second time (2). There are several good reasons for Manchin to toss proven liar Schumer under the proverbial bus.

    McConnell raked in cash as the pliable minority swampie. Would McConnell retire to avoid the accountability of returning as Majority Leader in the Senate?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/12/09/the-i-word-will-manchin-follow-sinema-and-take-control-of-the-senate-n516720

    (2) https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy-environment/manchin-permitting-reform-rider-fails-ndaa

  718. @songbird
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Akira Kurosawa had something of a knowledge of classical Chinese poetry, both since his father had chosen to decorate his childhood home mostly with scrolls of it, preferring them for the most part to paintings, and since his father had also sent him to calligraphy school, for a certain period as a boy.

    According to him, he only recognized one poem fluently. A Night Spend by the Maple Bridge, by the Tang poet Chang Chi:


    While I watch the moon go down, a crow caws through the frost;
    Under the shadows of maple-trees a fisherman moves with his torch;
    And I hear, from beyond Su-chou, from the temple on Cold Mountain,
    Ringing for me, here in my boat, the midnight bell.
     
    And this was for a rather idiosyncratic reason: his father liked to hang etchings from Hashan Temple, and they were often missing characters due to erosion. His father would speak the words that were missing to his son, and in this way it was burned into his brain.

    Other than that he knew only one line:
    For your sword, use the Full Moon Blue Dragon Blade
    For your study, read the Tso commentary on the Spring and Autumn Annals.

    Replies: @songbird

    from Hashan Temple

    Should read “Hanshan”
    ______
    Could the Denisovans speak? If we consider that Papuans are often 5% Denisovan and have an enormous linguistic diversity, how probable is it that a few words of Papuan survive, perhaps, in some phoneme-shifted form.

  719. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets,
     
    Historically, Christianity had a solid handle on this innate conflict. Preventing priests from marrying (officially) eliminates inherited church positions. The royal family appoints senior priests, thus keeping church and state linked. Unless there was a falling out among family, which did happen from time to time.

    The mistaken concept that priests must be celibate appeared later, creating huge problems. In the historical milieu, priests had sons who filled out the 2nd tier of the church hierarchy. Literacy was often scarce, thus having dad teach you reading and writing was a huge leg up.

    The same thing applied to the nobility. In GoT, Jon Snow chose to Go To The Wall. A less headstrong bastard would have leveraged the training into Knighthood. If Bronn can get a title.....
    ____

    A unified Priest-King is arguably the worst form of government. A modern example is the zealotry of the Ayatollah & his Mullahs. Total detachment from reality, in favour of religious fervor, is a very bad characteristic for any government.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.politico.eu/cdn-cgi/image/width=1280,quality=80,onerror=redirect,format=auto/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/09/Kal-econ-cartoon-12-9-22synd-scaled.jpg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    Christianity had a handle on this – to some extent – because it banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism. On the other hand, Pope was giving dispensas left and right anyway.

    In Christianity/Judaism, you can see the shadow of oligarchy in the obsessive demand that Messiah must be from Davidic line, and only from the Davidic line, despite the fact that this line was plagued by sin and there were surely many other good people around; also note the fact that God never favoured a single bloodline too long.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You can see the shadow of oligarchy too in the expectations of some alt-right members that children of Trump will somehow take over his position. The clamour is not just for Trump, but for Trump family, and in this reminds me about "the clamour for a king in Israel", to make a parallel to OT.

    Replies: @A123

    , @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism.
     
    Yes, that was on the list as now "technically" sanctifiable, but still very rare and a much discouraged practice. I doubt you can find a provable causal link between Martin Luther and the genetic issues with certain royal houses. Those lineages would have done exactly the same thing if Luther was not around.

    The more important changes Martin Luther had in mind were much more practical and genetically sound. If a wife dies, and her sister (or more commonly her sister's daughter) was unmarried, this was not valid as a 2nd marriage under Catholic rules. In modern society there would be age issues with such a pairing, however in historic times such matches made sense.
    ___

    No man is perfect, and I am not going to hold Luther up to an unreasonable standard. Some of the choices he made were less than ideal. Tolerating bigamy is highly problematic, but when the wife is infertile it solves a problem. Monarchs killed wives incapable of bearing heirs which is even worse.

    On balance, fighting the sale of indulgences and other corruption in the Catholic Church makes his life a "win" in any rational analysis. Secular, Christian, or other.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  720. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    He missed April Fools Day by months.

    Did you see Yudkowsky has flipped from cryogenics to everybody should just kill themselves there's no point?

    Replies: @songbird

    He missed April Fools Day by months.

    I still can’t tell whether it is meant to be satire or not. Don’t think it is possible to know…

    Did you see Yudkowsky has flipped from cryogenics to everybody should just kill themselves there’s no point?

    Roko was saying something like, we shouldn’t fund cataclysmic risk management (diverting asteroids from hitting Earth, etc.) because that will just create a worse future timeline, where things never become unpozzed.

  721. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Christianity had a handle on this - to some extent - because it banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism. On the other hand, Pope was giving dispensas left and right anyway.

    In Christianity/Judaism, you can see the shadow of oligarchy in the obsessive demand that Messiah must be from Davidic line, and only from the Davidic line, despite the fact that this line was plagued by sin and there were surely many other good people around; also note the fact that God never favoured a single bloodline too long.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

    You can see the shadow of oligarchy too in the expectations of some alt-right members that children of Trump will somehow take over his position. The clamour is not just for Trump, but for Trump family, and in this reminds me about “the clamour for a king in Israel”, to make a parallel to OT.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    the expectations of some alt-right members that children of Trump will somehow take over his position. The clamour is not just for Trump, but for Trump family,
     
    You can find 1/100th of 1% for almost anything. However, you are making a catastrophic error taking a virtually nonexistent 0.00001 faction far too seriously.

    Part of having fun (and maintaining cohesiveness) within the MAGA movement is keeping #NeverTrump Leftoids on the defensive. No one is truly planning 22 years in advance for this.

     
    https://pics.me.me/happy-11th-birthdaytofirstson-barron-trump-born-20-march-2006-which-17585880.png
     

    Are there problematic oligarch families in the U.S. Yes. The Bush clan springs immediately to mind. However, that seems to have run its course. Brief spurts in American history are not damning. John Quincy Adams was the son of John Adams. There was not a 3rd round after that.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  722. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Christianity had a handle on this - to some extent - because it banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism. On the other hand, Pope was giving dispensas left and right anyway.

    In Christianity/Judaism, you can see the shadow of oligarchy in the obsessive demand that Messiah must be from Davidic line, and only from the Davidic line, despite the fact that this line was plagued by sin and there were surely many other good people around; also note the fact that God never favoured a single bloodline too long.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

    banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism.

    Yes, that was on the list as now “technically” sanctifiable, but still very rare and a much discouraged practice. I doubt you can find a provable causal link between Martin Luther and the genetic issues with certain royal houses. Those lineages would have done exactly the same thing if Luther was not around.

    The more important changes Martin Luther had in mind were much more practical and genetically sound. If a wife dies, and her sister (or more commonly her sister’s daughter) was unmarried, this was not valid as a 2nd marriage under Catholic rules. In modern society there would be age issues with such a pairing, however in historic times such matches made sense.
    ___

    No man is perfect, and I am not going to hold Luther up to an unreasonable standard. Some of the choices he made were less than ideal. Tolerating bigamy is highly problematic, but when the wife is infertile it solves a problem. Monarchs killed wives incapable of bearing heirs which is even worse.

    On balance, fighting the sale of indulgences and other corruption in the Catholic Church makes his life a “win” in any rational analysis. Secular, Christian, or other.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    "If a wife dies, and her sister (or more commonly her sister’s daughter) was unmarried, this was not valid as a 2nd marriage under Catholic rules."

     

    This is a problem conjured for already presented solution. I studied history and have never heard that it was problem on the minds of people at that time. And since when religion, especially reformed religion, is expected to be convenient? It does not make a sense at all why would someone want to marry all the time inside one family. This insistence on marrying within one family is disgusting. It is culturally ingrained habit, ingrained with such artificial problems you just presented. My wife died, and I want to marry daughter of her sister... the biggest problem of my life! Why did not troubadours sing about it...? Yet call some reformer, create religion, so I can!

    But this is a favourite marriage of Maimonides or the best which can happen according to him, a marriage of niece and uncle. Why is this favourite? Because it maximizes the preservation of X chromosome, since brother of sister marries her daughter, and as you know, X chromosome recombines (unlike Y chromosome), so if you want to preserve it (= have a daughter), you must mix the same with the same. Uncle and niece - the pinnacle of cousin marriages (you skip one generation on one side, so X is more puure), and wet dream of all cryptic Great Mother followers. No wonder in UK female monarchs (Elisabeth, Victoria, Elisabeth II) are much more venerated than male kings. New Elissas hahaha.

    Replies: @A123

  723. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You can see the shadow of oligarchy too in the expectations of some alt-right members that children of Trump will somehow take over his position. The clamour is not just for Trump, but for Trump family, and in this reminds me about "the clamour for a king in Israel", to make a parallel to OT.

    Replies: @A123

    the expectations of some alt-right members that children of Trump will somehow take over his position. The clamour is not just for Trump, but for Trump family,

    You can find 1/100th of 1% for almost anything. However, you are making a catastrophic error taking a virtually nonexistent 0.00001 faction far too seriously.

    Part of having fun (and maintaining cohesiveness) within the MAGA movement is keeping #NeverTrump Leftoids on the defensive. No one is truly planning 22 years in advance for this.

      

    Are there problematic oligarch families in the U.S. Yes. The Bush clan springs immediately to mind. However, that seems to have run its course. Brief spurts in American history are not damning. John Quincy Adams was the son of John Adams. There was not a 3rd round after that.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    Another one of your "great ideas"?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Mad_Magazine%2C_August_2017.jpg

    Something similar has been tried before. :-)

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  724. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer.
     
    Yes I have visited many times before, though usually with family. This time I’m going with friends so it is more exciting.



    I’m currently in Paris, just arrived today. Will stay for 2 more days before heading for London. We went to a nice Italian restaurant recommended by our hotel receptionist. It is called Pendino.

    Previously when I had been to Paris I went to 5-star Michelin restaurants and the like. Absolutely detested it. I was once talking to a Chinese friend of mine from college and we were mocking how long it takes for the food to come and the minuscule portions served in these restaurants. Didn’t really like the food either.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow. More reliable and consistent IMO. The high-brow stuff are always at risk of pretension and absurdity.

    We aren’t too sophisticated so we don’t have anything planned in mind. Just asking random recommendations and searching stuff online as we go along.

    I don’t have time to visit the traditional touristic monuments in Paris or London, the stay is too short. Besides I have already been to most of them before.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    LOL. AP, Mr. Hack and Mikel are in the US so I probably cannot meet them. Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age, which is perhaps workable in a forum but will cause awkwardness face to face. It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    I remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music…
    Well, it is possible I will be able to listen live since with the end of February I am preparing to visit Egypt. Besides usual highlights of Egypt, I hope to spend some time in Alexandria and Cairo, maybe see Al-Azhar too, and taste some good music and food besides ancient & Coptic antiquities. I will be glad to meet anyway 😉

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now? I heard there are many in Turkey. Is the war dominating their thoughts? Since Russiand do not come to Poland (and if so, they pretend to be not Russians) anymore, I do not know. Just asking, since I would prefer to avoid any war-related quarrels.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music…
     
    Yes I remember that too.

    I will be glad to meet anyway
     
    Would be glad to sir. I only request that you inform me of a rough ballpark of your age so I know so beforehand. As mentioned before, I'm in my mid-20s so most people here are two or three times my age.

    But otherwise do shoot me an email (the one linked above in my reply to Dmitry) when you are in Egypt. I would give recommendations as to which places are best to visit, but I realized I’m probably not the best guide for tourism in Egypt. I wrote a post to Mr. Hack a month ago recommending Shark El-Sheikh (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-201/#comment-5667355), but AnonFromTN kindly provided his perspective that Sharm was the least interesting part of his trip to Egypt. He’s probably right too. Evidently the points of interest for a native will be different from a foreigner. For example, the Great Pyramid of Giza holds no special interest for me. I drive by it every day to work and it’s just sort of there, always has been and always will be. So I’ve actually never visited the Great Pyramid up close. But for a foreigner you definitely need to visit this Ancient wonder.

    I can though be a good guide to good restaurants and such in Cairo. But perhaps Mikel and AnonFromTN or others who have been to Egypt can provide touristic tips for you.

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now?
     
    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor. Western European tourists are the most interested in Ancient Egyptian sites; a tour guide operator in Luxor told a relative that French kids knew more about Ancient Egypt than he did. I suppose it’s natural as the French were the first to kick off the Egypt craze in Western Europe and led to a rediscovery Ancient Egyptian civilization. Russians and Ukrainians seem to be more interested in the sun and beach.

    I hope to spend some time in Alexandria
     
    Edward Said wrote an essay on Cairo and Alexandria in Chapter 30 of Reflections On Exile, which you can read here: http://www.mcrg.ac.in/RLS_Migration/Reading_List/Module_A/65.Said,%20Edward,%20Reflections_on_Exile_and_Other_Essay(BookFi).pdf

    You could benefit from reading it before you go. Long story short, Alexandria isn’t the city it used to be. Cairo is vastly more interesting and the center of life for Arab-Islamic civilization.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN

  725. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?
     
    Because these pagans did not have any specific doctrine (a cult without story, so to say), or it was confined to some narrow circle of high priests, like druids. To be true, Torah was also to be read only yearly to people by Jewish priests, but later Judaism started to focus on its texts more, generating proto-democratic communities like Qumran and Essenes.

    On the other hand, the Great Mother cult developed into rather elitist Eleusinian Mysteries, whose initiates were limited by the mysteries nature and could not talk to profanes. Likewise, we have no writings on Phoenician religion from Phoenicians and Carthaginians, who were pretty oligarchic.

    So, in some ways, religion corresponds to social organisation. You can see this problem in the history of Jews, where God does not want them to have a king only a high priest, but some presumably oligarchic elements insist on having a king, which then inevitably fails as this almost immediately leads to the conflicts of kings with priests and prophets, since it is kings who will become one of the main venues for idolatry in Israel, and the list of bad kings is long: Jeroboam, Ahab, Ahaziah.... etc. In the end, being monarchy ends very badly for Israelites; they are exiled and become "Ten lost tribes"

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @A123, @Coconuts

    I was asking Dmitri about it because he seemed to be explaining it using methods of comparative religion and some psychology of religion and I am pretty sure he is not a Protestant.

    On the surface this sounds like more antiquarianism, how is it important in a religious or theological sense? Or is it a model from political science, anthropology or something?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    It is history of religion with some elements of structural analysis if you like so.
    But the sense of reality must be provided by observer himself. If this is dead wood for you, so be it.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  726. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I was asking Dmitri about it because he seemed to be explaining it using methods of comparative religion and some psychology of religion and I am pretty sure he is not a Protestant.

    On the surface this sounds like more antiquarianism, how is it important in a religious or theological sense? Or is it a model from political science, anthropology or something?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    It is history of religion with some elements of structural analysis if you like so.
    But the sense of reality must be provided by observer himself. If this is dead wood for you, so be it.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    No, I studied a lot which gave me a sense of reality of these things, and asked questions like "why this persists? what is hidden sense of that? why no one mentions this aspect but overemphasized that aspect?" etc.

    Maybe start with Marija Gimbutas books about cultures of Great Goddess.

    As for Old Testament, Jewish commentaries are better than Christian ones, since they are not concerned with finding conformity with New Testament. Anyway, Christian commentators quote nowadays midrash stories too.

  727. It is history of religion with some elements of structural analysis if you like so.
    But the sense of reality must be provided by observer himself. If this is dead wood for you, so be it.

    If you can’t explain why it has importance other than in terms of secular historical analysis and structuralism, yes, I likely won’t treat it as important in a religious sense. If you think it has significance, say because you have been granted a special grace by God that gives you understanding of why it is important, I would in one way admire the arbitrariness of the belief and the pure appeal to authority, but I don’t share these beliefs.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    I answered in the comment no. 734, by mistake linking it to my own comment.

  728. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Well, protestants love their kings-priests, or queen-priests, styled after King-Priest Melchizedek (who is an archetype of Jesus in OT). But king-priests seems to have originated in Phoenician city-states where they ruled over their oligarchic councils on the basis of consensus. When you realize that in the UK system, the Privy Council of King Charles III is actually a kind of parallel government in waiting, you realize this is true.

    I am the great opponent of inheriting social positions as this is the backbone of oligarchy, whether secular or sacred one... According to OT, in Israel there was no prescribed inheritance for priests' position, since it was limited to one tribe - Levites, not a single family. And not all Levites were priests - some were just guardians in the Temple. Besides, OT also explicitly says about "evil sons of priests of Jahwe" few times, so certainly inheritance of position was not designed.

    The sons of Bach were never like Bach etc... looking to the world of film, sons are always worse than fathers... I heard Bollywood especially is infested with sons & daughters of famous parents; maybe this is the reason why Indian cinema appeal is limited to the subcontinent.
    Even in the West there is now an expression "nepo kids" for this phenomenon.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    According to OT, in Israel there was no prescribed inheritance for priests’ position, since it was limited to one tribe – Levites, not a single family.

    Theory. Practice. Just like Harvard in 2022 the Cohens got the inside track.

  729. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    banned cousin marriages which are the main vehicle for oligarchic nepotism. Unfortunately, Protestants, starting with Luther, reversed this ban which says a lot who was behind Protestantism.
     
    Yes, that was on the list as now "technically" sanctifiable, but still very rare and a much discouraged practice. I doubt you can find a provable causal link between Martin Luther and the genetic issues with certain royal houses. Those lineages would have done exactly the same thing if Luther was not around.

    The more important changes Martin Luther had in mind were much more practical and genetically sound. If a wife dies, and her sister (or more commonly her sister's daughter) was unmarried, this was not valid as a 2nd marriage under Catholic rules. In modern society there would be age issues with such a pairing, however in historic times such matches made sense.
    ___

    No man is perfect, and I am not going to hold Luther up to an unreasonable standard. Some of the choices he made were less than ideal. Tolerating bigamy is highly problematic, but when the wife is infertile it solves a problem. Monarchs killed wives incapable of bearing heirs which is even worse.

    On balance, fighting the sale of indulgences and other corruption in the Catholic Church makes his life a "win" in any rational analysis. Secular, Christian, or other.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    “If a wife dies, and her sister (or more commonly her sister’s daughter) was unmarried, this was not valid as a 2nd marriage under Catholic rules.”

    This is a problem conjured for already presented solution. I studied history and have never heard that it was problem on the minds of people at that time. And since when religion, especially reformed religion, is expected to be convenient? It does not make a sense at all why would someone want to marry all the time inside one family. This insistence on marrying within one family is disgusting. It is culturally ingrained habit, ingrained with such artificial problems you just presented. My wife died, and I want to marry daughter of her sister… the biggest problem of my life! Why did not troubadours sing about it…? Yet call some reformer, create religion, so I can!

    But this is a favourite marriage of Maimonides or the best which can happen according to him, a marriage of niece and uncle. Why is this favourite? Because it maximizes the preservation of X chromosome, since brother of sister marries her daughter, and as you know, X chromosome recombines (unlike Y chromosome), so if you want to preserve it (= have a daughter), you must mix the same with the same. Uncle and niece – the pinnacle of cousin marriages (you skip one generation on one side, so X is more puure), and wet dream of all cryptic Great Mother followers. No wonder in UK female monarchs (Elisabeth, Victoria, Elisabeth II) are much more venerated than male kings. New Elissas hahaha.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective

    It is a solution for a problem that actually existed in the time of Martin Luther (1,500's). The issue mostly turned up in small, rural communities where the pool of potential couples was quite limited.

    Trades ran in families which included skills for both genders. In calorie limited societies, a pairing where both sides know about the work, for example milk and cows, is survival advantageous over an improper skills match driven by church rules. Why do you favour children dying for Catholic dogma?
    ___

    Poor and rural made terrible songs in the era, that is a modern phenomenon (below). Troubadours were limited in number. An even tinier number could write their songs on paper for the historical record. I am not sure why you are troubled by the fact that something that should not exist, actually does not exist.
    ___

    The X chromosome was identified in the early 1,900's. Thus, unless you assert time travel driven knowledge transfer (that was 100% conveniently lost to the historical record) the second part of your diatribe makes no sense whatsoever towards 1,500's behaviour.

    No one is saying that oligarchs are good. However, your dogmatic zeal on the topic has religious fervour. What is the diety of your anti-oligarch church/mosque/temple?

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iMlzfpwJZuc

  730. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    It is history of religion with some elements of structural analysis if you like so.
    But the sense of reality must be provided by observer himself. If this is dead wood for you, so be it.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    No, I studied a lot which gave me a sense of reality of these things, and asked questions like “why this persists? what is hidden sense of that? why no one mentions this aspect but overemphasized that aspect?” etc.

    Maybe start with Marija Gimbutas books about cultures of Great Goddess.

    As for Old Testament, Jewish commentaries are better than Christian ones, since they are not concerned with finding conformity with New Testament. Anyway, Christian commentators quote nowadays midrash stories too.

  731. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    "If a wife dies, and her sister (or more commonly her sister’s daughter) was unmarried, this was not valid as a 2nd marriage under Catholic rules."

     

    This is a problem conjured for already presented solution. I studied history and have never heard that it was problem on the minds of people at that time. And since when religion, especially reformed religion, is expected to be convenient? It does not make a sense at all why would someone want to marry all the time inside one family. This insistence on marrying within one family is disgusting. It is culturally ingrained habit, ingrained with such artificial problems you just presented. My wife died, and I want to marry daughter of her sister... the biggest problem of my life! Why did not troubadours sing about it...? Yet call some reformer, create religion, so I can!

    But this is a favourite marriage of Maimonides or the best which can happen according to him, a marriage of niece and uncle. Why is this favourite? Because it maximizes the preservation of X chromosome, since brother of sister marries her daughter, and as you know, X chromosome recombines (unlike Y chromosome), so if you want to preserve it (= have a daughter), you must mix the same with the same. Uncle and niece - the pinnacle of cousin marriages (you skip one generation on one side, so X is more puure), and wet dream of all cryptic Great Mother followers. No wonder in UK female monarchs (Elisabeth, Victoria, Elisabeth II) are much more venerated than male kings. New Elissas hahaha.

    Replies: @A123

    It is a solution for a problem that actually existed in the time of Martin Luther (1,500’s). The issue mostly turned up in small, rural communities where the pool of potential couples was quite limited.

    Trades ran in families which included skills for both genders. In calorie limited societies, a pairing where both sides know about the work, for example milk and cows, is survival advantageous over an improper skills match driven by church rules. Why do you favour children dying for Catholic dogma?
    ___

    Poor and rural made terrible songs in the era, that is a modern phenomenon (below). Troubadours were limited in number. An even tinier number could write their songs on paper for the historical record. I am not sure why you are troubled by the fact that something that should not exist, actually does not exist.
    ___

    The X chromosome was identified in the early 1,900’s. Thus, unless you assert time travel driven knowledge transfer (that was 100% conveniently lost to the historical record) the second part of your diatribe makes no sense whatsoever towards 1,500’s behaviour.

    No one is saying that oligarchs are good. However, your dogmatic zeal on the topic has religious fervour. What is the diety of your anti-oligarch church/mosque/temple?

    PEACE 😇

  732. Was Abe’s assassination a diversity problem?

    Granted the assassin was Japanese (or so I think? At least his name was Japanese), but I wonder if the Moon church would have been in Japan, without all of the ethnic Koreans living there. Would guess not. And I wonder if Abe’s connection to it was an attempt to pander to them.

    If Japan is having problems with ethnic Koreans, who have a relatively short genetic distance and high human capital, then that seems to be a pretty big indictment of the more extreme Western progressive idealization of diversity.

  733. Well Maimonides did not know X chromosome but somehow he promoted correct rules that preserve it which means there was either long tradition based on observation without a notion of chromosome, or some more advanced civilization, obsessed with purity of blood, imposed those rules long ago, since cousin marriages is popular in all areas associated with historical Great Mother cult – from Mediterranean to Decan. I prefer the second option. I think it may be remnant of some bygone civilization of hunter-gatherers, like Neanderthals, since their legacy has been preserved by female lines, or X chromosome. Also, the areas of Great Goddess cult are also areas where Neanderthals once lived.

    Why do you favour children dying for Catholic dogma?

    I did not know Protestants can be so weepy. I always imagined Protestants as harsh disciplinarian, putting scarlet letters for anything on everyone. On the other hand, among Catholics, Protestantism is explicitly associated with self-righteous hypocrisy…. so don’t you think what I said might be true? That there was some secret agenda behind Protestantism? That almost immediately rich sympathizers, even princes, appeared – isn’t it strange? Even at that time, cousin marriage was practiced mostly by the rich, not the poor. Why there are no cousin marriages in the official agenda of Luther’s 95 theses? Why this was HIDDEN?

    The rich could write to the pope asking for a dispensation, the poor were probably said to go 20 km away and find a wife there. I mean, is that really such a harsh demand, to find a new wife in another village? And why this obsession with not just marrying sister of dead wife, but a daughter of sister? You know, today you would call that – pedophilia.

    You can’t be serious saying things like that:

    Why do you favour children dying for Catholic dogma?

    This is self-righteous hypocrisy.

    Well, do you favour children dying/suffering due to genetic diseases? Poor, rural communities had no room for the disabled which are unavoidable side effect of cousin marriages, whereas the rich at least could provide some care for them.

    • LOL: A123
  734. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    the expectations of some alt-right members that children of Trump will somehow take over his position. The clamour is not just for Trump, but for Trump family,
     
    You can find 1/100th of 1% for almost anything. However, you are making a catastrophic error taking a virtually nonexistent 0.00001 faction far too seriously.

    Part of having fun (and maintaining cohesiveness) within the MAGA movement is keeping #NeverTrump Leftoids on the defensive. No one is truly planning 22 years in advance for this.

     
    https://pics.me.me/happy-11th-birthdaytofirstson-barron-trump-born-20-march-2006-which-17585880.png
     

    Are there problematic oligarch families in the U.S. Yes. The Bush clan springs immediately to mind. However, that seems to have run its course. Brief spurts in American history are not damning. John Quincy Adams was the son of John Adams. There was not a 3rd round after that.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Another one of your “great ideas”?

    Something similar has been tried before. 🙂

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mr. Hack

    Unlike other countries, USA offers possibility of write-in candidates in elections. Their results are always marginal AFAIK, though. Knowing this, one has to be surprised that in the country of "grassroots democracy" all what people can think of are candidates provided and approved by oligarchy.

  735. @Coconuts

    It is history of religion with some elements of structural analysis if you like so.
    But the sense of reality must be provided by observer himself. If this is dead wood for you, so be it.
     
    If you can't explain why it has importance other than in terms of secular historical analysis and structuralism, yes, I likely won't treat it as important in a religious sense. If you think it has significance, say because you have been granted a special grace by God that gives you understanding of why it is important, I would in one way admire the arbitrariness of the belief and the pure appeal to authority, but I don't share these beliefs.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I answered in the comment no. 734, by mistake linking it to my own comment.

    • Thanks: Coconuts
  736. It appears that Kremlin insiders are spilling the beans about Putler’s plan B, if things don’t quite work out too well for him:

    According to Gallyamov, the project has been unofficially named “Noah’s Ark.” Argentina and Venezuela are allegedly among the top options for Putin to flee to, but China was considered in the early stages of talks.

    But according to Gallyamov, China wasn’t considered safe enough for Putler because:

    “The leader’s entourage does not exclude that he will lose the war, lose power and he will have to urgently evacuate somewhere…Gallyamov wrote that China was the first destination proposed, but it was ruled out because the Kremlin feared Beijing wouldn’t cooperate easily and because “the Chinese are too self-conscious” and despise others, “especially losers.”

    Somehow, I don’t think that Venezuela is a good destination either:

    I couldn’t locate much about plan C including Chile as a final resting ground for old Putler? Maybe he’ll end up there? Read all about it here:
    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/vladimir-putin-ukraine/2022/12/07/id/1099562/

  737. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AnonfromTN

    Vasily Chuikov who led the Soviet advisory group to ROC was fluent in Chinese.

    He was also said to have advocated using nukes against PRC during the Sino-Soviet Conflict. I only read this from a Chinese source so don't know the full veracity.


    It’s traditional hieroglyph writing.
     
    The Mongolian/Manchu script is originally derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs. Chinese is logographic and used for centuries in Japan and formerly Korea.

    That's why its China Japan and Korea -- Bromance of Three Kingdoms,

    Not,

    China and Russia -- an opportunistic quasi-alliance based on limited shared culture. I wouldn't be able to keep up with a discussion about the Bible for example.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    China and Russia — an opportunistic quasi-alliance based on limited shared culture.

    What are you complaining about? Current alliance between Russia and China is largely the product of idiotic imperial policy. So, complain to the imperial elites.

    Russia shares virtually no culture with China (unless you count as culture what Chinese borrowed from the USSR: e.g., party buildings in Beijing are immediately recognizable as such for someone who grew up in the USSR and saw Soviet party buildings). Very long border between the RF and PRC requires good neighborliness, but does not require an alliance.

    The only thing that unites Russia and China (as well as several disparate countries that also have little to nothing in common with either or with each other, like Iran and Venezuela) is refusal to toe the imperial line and intention to remain sovereign.

    What’s more, the imperial elites keep doing Putin’s work for him. Examples abound. Lukashenko in Belarus kept maneuvering between the RF and the West. Failed Western attempt at a coup against him made him a firm RF supporter. Putin did not want Russian oligarchs to export their money to the West, admonishing them repeatedly, but without much effect. Western thieves stealing their assets in violation of all applicable laws are successfully doing his convincing for him. Iranian ayatollahs used to call the USSR “little Satan” (as compared to the “big Satan” they called the US). Imperial policies moved Iran firmly into pro-Russian camp. And so on.

  738. Great insight on Viktor Bout –

    https://sonar21.com/there-is-more-to-the-viktor-bout-trade-than-meets-the-eye/

    Two-part feature on why the Kiev regime and its Western backers are losing and will not get their way

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
  739. @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    Another one of your "great ideas"?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Mad_Magazine%2C_August_2017.jpg

    Something similar has been tried before. :-)

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Unlike other countries, USA offers possibility of write-in candidates in elections. Their results are always marginal AFAIK, though. Knowing this, one has to be surprised that in the country of “grassroots democracy” all what people can think of are candidates provided and approved by oligarchy.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  740. @china-russia-all-the-way
    Undeterred by winter, migrants from the Middle East are still arriving in Lithuania via Belarus.

    https://twitter.com/LRTenglish/status/1601210052924379137

    Polish/Baltic higher education subservient to the influence of the EU and US produce upper middle class women who support migrants including this girl who risked it all to volunteer and smuggle migrants across the border.

    https://twitter.com/WyborczaEnglish/status/1601180518736805888

    Replies: @showmethereal

    I don’t blame Belarus for letting them pass through….. Turkey is hypocritical though since they are a NATO nation.

  741. Wonder whether the Qataris put “died of monkeypox” on that rainbow shirt guy’s death cert.

  742. Concise dose of current military realities from returned Strelkov:

    https://t.me/strelkovii/3510

    • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @Sean
    @sudden death

    Girkin is a Russian, and they are surprisingly gullible about Western MSM output not being calculated disinformation.


    Russian forces in Ukraine are constructing fortifications in depth on and behind the 400 miles of frontline without, so to speak, a moat, and they have more troops to man fixed positions. Ukrainians are now the ones with vulnerable lines of communication across the Dnipro that could be cut at a time of the Russians' choosing.

    Having twice plucked low hanging fruit, Ukraine shows little appetite for maintaining momentum if that involves fighting real storming-the-trenches battles and the Russian defences are now without weakened areas.

  743. @AnonfromTN
    @yurivku


    Glad to know you’re still here and strugling for good. But it’s useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots.
     
    Thanks! However, I disagree about all Westerners being hopelessly bad. 30+ years of living among them, working with them, and talking to them convinced me that the majority are decent people, although many are severely brainwashed by relentless propaganda. Yet there are still quite a few who use their brains and come to inevitable (if you think logically) conclusion that everything official Western propaganda says is either lies or blatant lies. Western people are going through the stage Soviet people went through 40-50 years ago: they realize that if you want to know what’s going on, you cannot take MSM “reports” at face value, but need to think for yourself. Internet helps. When you read the comments on various sites from the people living in Asia, Latin America, or Africa, you see that the majority of the world population does not believe a word the empire and its lackeys say. Germans, of all people, coined the word “lugenpresse” (lying press), even though Germany might appear monolithic looking from the outside and listening to their politicians, who are pathetic servants of the empire.

    There is hope. But anything good will likely come to the fore many years after Ukies are crushed. So, the people of Donbass are right that crushing current Kiev regime is #1 priority for Russia and all decent people of the world. Today to Nuland’s “fuck the EU” Russians should add “fuck the empire and all its sidekicks”. That’s the only way to make tomorrow better than today.

    Replies: @yurivku, @yurivku

    I understand how difficult is for you to recognize simple thing – they aren’t curable. Only through head cut off. So continue fight windmills – it’s no bad in that, but no good either. Ukraine can be cured if all fascists establishment will be eliminated and few decades passed , but it’s not possible for the West without nukes, but those leave no choice for healthy part of humanity.

    There is hope.

    I’m afraid there’s not much of hope. I feel pity for you – you’re in hostile environment, but it was your choice. And to be clear – I’m not Putin’s fan, actually I’ve lot of questions to him, but this abscess should’ve been opened. I actually warned it 3 years ago, nobody beleive it this time…

  744. 95% certainty of Lukashenko backing out of any plans to attack UA soon from north again after this, mine bolding:

    09 December 2022
    Readout of the Secretary-General’s meeting with the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Belarus, H.E. Yury Ambrazevich
    The Secretary-General received today the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Belarus, H.E. Mr. Yury Ambrazevich.

    The Deputy Foreign Minister informed the Secretary-General that Belarus will accept, without preconditions, the transit of Ukrainian grains through its own territory for export from Lithuanian harbors.

    The Deputy Foreign Minister reiterated the requests from his government to be able export its own fertilizer products, which are currently subject to sanctions.

    https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/readout/2022-12-09/readout-of-the-secretary-general%E2%80%99s-meeting-the-deputy-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-the-republic-of-belarus-he-yury-ambrazevich

  745. @A123
    Mikel must be celebrating with imported Sparkling Wine (not French Champagne, Instead an SJW nation import is required) as his great leader has been named Man Genderless Being of the Year

    Time Magazine Bestows “Person of Year” Award to the World’s Largest Beneficiary of Taxpayer Funding

     
    https://tribuneonlineng.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Zelensky-640x430.jpg
     

    Comrade rebels, this is as fitting an attribution as one could make, given the state of international affairs.

    Time Magazine has decreed their oft coveted “Person of The Year” award to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the world’s richest man as delivered by congress via U.S. taxpayers.

    The actor-turned-president was bestowed the honor during an announcement on Wednesday by Time Magazine Editor-in-Chief Edward Felsenthal on the TODAY show.


     

    Trump would have headed off this mess. However, that is not where we are. Team RINO (a.k.a. Mikel and DeSantis) personally cost MAGA the Senate by endorsing O'dea in Colorado.

    Mikel... How do you feel about your Great Leader Zelensky now that DeSantis has empowered him by single handedly ending the GOP 50/50 split in the Senate? You must be proud that team RINO NeoCon is sending money to Ukraine. MAGA would have directed money to securing the U.S. border, but you loathe that idea....

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/12/07/time-magazine-bestows-person-of-year-award-to-the-worlds-largest-beneficiary-of-taxpayer-funding/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird, @Mr. Hack

    You must be proud that team RINO NeoCon is sending money to Ukraine. MAGA would have directed money to securing the U.S. border, but you loathe that idea….

    It looks that your MAGA infused brain can only see things in black and white – why can’t both projects be funded simultaneously?


    “Let’s go Brandon” translated into Russian. 🙂

  746. @sudden death
    Concise dose of current military realities from returned Strelkov:

    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1601522025872642048

    https://t.me/strelkovii/3510

    Replies: @Sean

    Girkin is a Russian, and they are surprisingly gullible about Western MSM output not being calculated disinformation.

    Russian forces in Ukraine are constructing fortifications in depth on and behind the 400 miles of frontline without, so to speak, a moat, and they have more troops to man fixed positions. Ukrainians are now the ones with vulnerable lines of communication across the Dnipro that could be cut at a time of the Russians’ choosing.

    Having twice plucked low hanging fruit, Ukraine shows little appetite for maintaining momentum if that involves fighting real storming-the-trenches battles and the Russian defences are now without weakened areas.

  747. Interesting how the dollar has slumped recently, despite the horrible fundamentals of the Euro and Yen, as well as the interest rate differential.

    https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/12/09/xi-the-dollar-slayer/

  748. Having an unelected lobotomite occupying the White House strikes again: (1)

    ‘Very Amused’: Russian State Media Mock Biden’s Woke Diplomacy

    Russian state media are mocking the United States for prioritizing WNBA player Brittney Griner over former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan because of Griner’s race and sexual orientation.

    RT editor in chief Margarita Simonyan in a television appearance Thursday said she was “very amused but not surprised” that the Biden administration swapped Griner, rather than Whelan, for notorious Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, as Whelan has “three problems.”

    “His first problem is that he is white.
    His second problem is he is a man.
    His third problem: He is a heterosexual. This is not something that can be forgiven today,”

    Simonyan said. Whelan, a former Marine convicted in 2020 on manufactured espionage charges, has spent two years in a Russian penal colony. “I was arrested for a crime that never occurred,” he told CNN Thursday. “I don’t understand why I’m still sitting here.” During the television segment, Simonyan and the other panelists repeatedly refer to Whelan as a spy and repeat the trumped-up charges against him.

    Video under [MORE]

    All the Ukie Maximalists counting on Not-The-President Biden should be very worried. The incompetence of the illegitimate regime here at home makes Putin stronger and more credible. Worse yet for the Ukies, they will be dropped in a heartbeat if media friendly crisis in a PoC country country comes along.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://freebeacon.com/national-security/very-amused-russian-state-media-mock-bidens-woke-diplomacy/

    [MORE]

    There is a subtitling problem. I am not sure why marijuana is being displayed as hashish.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    No worries kremlinstoogeA123, Brandon has already taken your fears into consideration:

    https://www.cleveland.com/resizer/lja1YWBbVHGNCJrC7pUNkDYpFEo=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/6AONQ2QBVVFVHJW32FDLFSFMGY.jpg
    I think that he should include you into a deal too! :-)

  749. @A123
    Having an unelected lobotomite occupying the White House strikes again: (1)

    ‘Very Amused’: Russian State Media Mock Biden’s Woke Diplomacy

    Russian state media are mocking the United States for prioritizing WNBA player Brittney Griner over former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan because of Griner's race and sexual orientation.

    RT editor in chief Margarita Simonyan in a television appearance Thursday said she was "very amused but not surprised" that the Biden administration swapped Griner, rather than Whelan, for notorious Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, as Whelan has "three problems."


    "His first problem is that he is white.
    His second problem is he is a man.
    His third problem: He is a heterosexual. This is not something that can be forgiven today,"
     
    Simonyan said. Whelan, a former Marine convicted in 2020 on manufactured espionage charges, has spent two years in a Russian penal colony. "I was arrested for a crime that never occurred," he told CNN Thursday. "I don't understand why I'm still sitting here." During the television segment, Simonyan and the other panelists repeatedly refer to Whelan as a spy and repeat the trumped-up charges against him.
     
    Video under [MORE]

    All the Ukie Maximalists counting on Not-The-President Biden should be very worried. The incompetence of the illegitimate regime here at home makes Putin stronger and more credible. Worse yet for the Ukies, they will be dropped in a heartbeat if media friendly crisis in a PoC country country comes along.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://freebeacon.com/national-security/very-amused-russian-state-media-mock-bidens-woke-diplomacy/


    There is a subtitling problem. I am not sure why marijuana is being displayed as hashish.

    https://youtu.be/3l2IgY9QYNw

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    No worries kremlinstoogeA123, Brandon has already taken your fears into consideration:


    I think that he should include you into a deal too! 🙂

  750. @AnonfromTN
    @yurivku


    Glad to know you’re still here and strugling for good. But it’s useless, all the westerners are descendants of fascists or jewish tribe or brainwashed idiots.
     
    Thanks! However, I disagree about all Westerners being hopelessly bad. 30+ years of living among them, working with them, and talking to them convinced me that the majority are decent people, although many are severely brainwashed by relentless propaganda. Yet there are still quite a few who use their brains and come to inevitable (if you think logically) conclusion that everything official Western propaganda says is either lies or blatant lies. Western people are going through the stage Soviet people went through 40-50 years ago: they realize that if you want to know what’s going on, you cannot take MSM “reports” at face value, but need to think for yourself. Internet helps. When you read the comments on various sites from the people living in Asia, Latin America, or Africa, you see that the majority of the world population does not believe a word the empire and its lackeys say. Germans, of all people, coined the word “lugenpresse” (lying press), even though Germany might appear monolithic looking from the outside and listening to their politicians, who are pathetic servants of the empire.

    There is hope. But anything good will likely come to the fore many years after Ukies are crushed. So, the people of Donbass are right that crushing current Kiev regime is #1 priority for Russia and all decent people of the world. Today to Nuland’s “fuck the EU” Russians should add “fuck the empire and all its sidekicks”. That’s the only way to make tomorrow better than today.

    Replies: @yurivku, @yurivku

    And a few words on current US/EU goverments. I think they could make a wonderful orchesta playing with their dicks on piano. Those who have no dicks could make a little operation, it’s easy on West AFAIK. Zelensky can by in center, it’s his clever idea. We, the world doomed to listen …
    Think it’s quite exact picture of our stupid word we are living in

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @yurivku


    Zelensky can by in center, it’s his clever idea.
     
    As a matter of fact, it wasn’t his idea. Puppets don’t have ideas. Those who do never become puppets. The clown plagiarized that particular one: a couple of Australian gays played piano with their dicks on camera long before him.
  751. Is there any reason for supposing that Denisovans were this hairy?

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @songbird


    Is there any reason for supposing that Denisovans were this hairy?
     
    Considering that they mated with sapiens sapiens, no. Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy's sister must have looked like. Not that we would probably find our ancestors from 40,000 years ago particularly attractive either but still...

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

  752. Acting European politicians are busily playing out its death wish. When they become former, many suddenly notice the elephant in the room and say obvious things, things that weren’t obvious to them before they became former. There are many examples. Here is the most recent.

    Former Vice Chancellor of Austria Heinz Christian Strache all of a sudden realized that there was an unconstitutional coup in Kiev in 2014, and that brutal civil war was going on in Donbass for many years, and that Europe studiously turned a blind eye on it.

    Here is his most recent public speech:

    Is there hope for Europe? Optimists would think that there is. Pessimists would take good care of their AK-47s.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    An "unconstitutional coup" where Yanukovych's own party members denounced the scoundrel Yanukovych. Why should Europeans treat the gold toilet polisher any better than his own Donbasians' did?


    On 22 February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach the honorary chairman of the party, Viktor Yanukovych, as President of Ukraine.[112] Out of the 38 PoR deputies present, 36 voted in favor of ousting Yanukovych, while two did not take part in the vote.[113] Simultaneously both Yanukovych and former Prime Minister Mykola Azarov fled to Russia.[23] In a written statement the next day, the party denounced Yanukovych, stating they "strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world."[114]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Regions

    Only Professor Jannisar still has a soft spot in his heart for the hat snatching crook!

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  753. @yurivku
    @AnonfromTN

    And a few words on current US/EU goverments. I think they could make a wonderful orchesta playing with their dicks on piano. Those who have no dicks could make a little operation, it's easy on West AFAIK. Zelensky can by in center, it's his clever idea. We, the world doomed to listen ...
    Think it's quite exact picture of our stupid word we are living in

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Zelensky can by in center, it’s his clever idea.

    As a matter of fact, it wasn’t his idea. Puppets don’t have ideas. Those who do never become puppets. The clown plagiarized that particular one: a couple of Australian gays played piano with their dicks on camera long before him.

  754. @songbird
    Is there any reason for supposing that Denisovans were this hairy?

    https://twitter.com/XianyangCB/status/1601970301696610305?s=20&t=Aq-BcmftWHu9yuUDvSzMSQ

    Replies: @Mikel

    Is there any reason for supposing that Denisovans were this hairy?

    Considering that they mated with sapiens sapiens, no. Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like. Not that we would probably find our ancestors from 40,000 years ago particularly attractive either but still…

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like.
     
    Body hair in females correlates with the level of testosterone. Females with higher testosterone enjoy sex more and therefore vocalize more. Males of all monkeys, including apes, find that attractive. Humans are apes, after all.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @songbird
    @Mikel


    Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like.
     
    Probably had quite a bite too.

    Guess it must be based on speculation that they either didn't have clothing, or else their clothing was rather poor - capes of hides, rather than shirts or breeches - and the fact that the place where the skull was found, Harbin, is quite cold in winter. Not a lot in the way of Denisovan remains, but, if this skull is one, there is speculation that its massive size is a adaptation to retain heat.

    There was a bone needle found in Denisova Cave, but the dating of it makes its origin unclear. Possibly from humans.

    Apparently, there are similar ideas about Neanderthals. There is some archaeological evidence to suppose that humans had better clothing. That's DNA from furry animals around their campfires and lots of needles. But I don't know how solid it is - there is some thought that Neanderthal string survives.

    Honestly, I don't see it myself. It is hard for me to conceive that the sort of cold adaptation necessary to survive without clothing at that latitude could happen on the timeframe possible. I'm not even sure that it is possible in something with a human form - in particular, I am thinking of the feet. (though I guess snow monkeys have something like human feet.)

    Ducks (highly cold-adapted) have an internal temperature of 106°F.

    Though, I have sometimes wondered why it seems like humans didn't pick up any lice from Neanderthals or Denisovans.

    Replies: @Beckow

  755. Orwell was prophetic: war is peace. “European Peace Facility” increases its expenditures on weapons sent to Ukraine:
    https://news.yahoo.com/eu-set-increase-weapons-fund-105324589.html

  756. Presumably by accident, Not-The-President Biden keeps one Trump administration initiative going. Then, he tries to speak about it.

    BIDEN: “They’ll construct a second fab here in Phoenix to build chips three nanochips, the three nanochip, chips that are three nano…”

    This should convince everyone to join the Trump 2024 MAGA effort. No one rational can possibly want 4 more years of this.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

  757. @Mikel
    @songbird


    Is there any reason for supposing that Denisovans were this hairy?
     
    Considering that they mated with sapiens sapiens, no. Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy's sister must have looked like. Not that we would probably find our ancestors from 40,000 years ago particularly attractive either but still...

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like.

    Body hair in females correlates with the level of testosterone. Females with higher testosterone enjoy sex more and therefore vocalize more. Males of all monkeys, including apes, find that attractive. Humans are apes, after all.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN

    Well, I don't know about you sir but the idea of a nynphomaniac with abundant body hair and a deep voice doesn't turn me on. And if the lady in question has a dangerous bite, as Songbird correctly pointed out, I would most definitely pass.

    Also, I guess it's all mediated mainly through testosterone levels but females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men so I suspect some innate sexual selection must have taken place. There doesn't seem to be any more evolutionary advantage of body hair in males than in females. But you are the expert in biology and genetics.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

  758. @Mikel
    @songbird


    Is there any reason for supposing that Denisovans were this hairy?
     
    Considering that they mated with sapiens sapiens, no. Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy's sister must have looked like. Not that we would probably find our ancestors from 40,000 years ago particularly attractive either but still...

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like.

    Probably had quite a bite too.

    Guess it must be based on speculation that they either didn’t have clothing, or else their clothing was rather poor – capes of hides, rather than shirts or breeches – and the fact that the place where the skull was found, Harbin, is quite cold in winter. Not a lot in the way of Denisovan remains, but, if this skull is one, there is speculation that its massive size is a adaptation to retain heat.

    There was a bone needle found in Denisova Cave, but the dating of it makes its origin unclear. Possibly from humans.

    Apparently, there are similar ideas about Neanderthals. There is some archaeological evidence to suppose that humans had better clothing. That’s DNA from furry animals around their campfires and lots of needles. But I don’t know how solid it is – there is some thought that Neanderthal string survives.

    Honestly, I don’t see it myself. It is hard for me to conceive that the sort of cold adaptation necessary to survive without clothing at that latitude could happen on the timeframe possible. I’m not even sure that it is possible in something with a human form – in particular, I am thinking of the feet. (though I guess snow monkeys have something like human feet.)

    Ducks (highly cold-adapted) have an internal temperature of 106°F.

    Though, I have sometimes wondered why it seems like humans didn’t pick up any lice from Neanderthals or Denisovans.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @songbird


    ...skull... its massive size is a adaptation to retain heat.
     
    It was probably a slow process that optimized less need for jerky mobility that is typical of Africans and other humans from warmer climates against cold weather where small skulls are less survivable.

    The nastiness of our ancestors against each other had a positive evolutionary side. Other species don't practise aggression within their own group or do it in narrow predefined or playful confines. We humans have developed an aggressive within species behaviors and that has helped dramatically with our evolution. Humans fought constantly within their small groups, they had to watch out for back-stabbing, attacks, etc...

    Humans for some reason turned their aggressiveness inward. Maybe it was triggered by an early awareness of rank and how it impacted access to resources. There is also an unusual evenness among humans - most young males are comparable in strength and ability and that leads to willingness to fight. It creates a more even playing field for man-woman pair-ups - and by early this century we have perfected pair-ups and optimized them for both success and quality. Then in the last few years the collapse of the Western culture has messed it up.

    The catastrophic state of man-woman bonding is at the core of other problems - it has devalued work, family, now even gender. The attempts to salvage the loser bottom 10-20% and include them (the sentimental liberal inclusiveness) are mainly to blame. But instead of 10-20% falling by the wayside we get a lot more...a typical result of trying to help, a charitable impulse on a societal level is the most dangerous thing...it destroys everything over time.

    Replies: @songbird

  759. @AnonfromTN
    Acting European politicians are busily playing out its death wish. When they become former, many suddenly notice the elephant in the room and say obvious things, things that weren’t obvious to them before they became former. There are many examples. Here is the most recent.

    Former Vice Chancellor of Austria Heinz Christian Strache all of a sudden realized that there was an unconstitutional coup in Kiev in 2014, and that brutal civil war was going on in Donbass for many years, and that Europe studiously turned a blind eye on it.

    Here is his most recent public speech:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTGYA1H56lE

    Is there hope for Europe? Optimists would think that there is. Pessimists would take good care of their AK-47s.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    An “unconstitutional coup” where Yanukovych’s own party members denounced the scoundrel Yanukovych. Why should Europeans treat the gold toilet polisher any better than his own Donbasians’ did?

    On 22 February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach the honorary chairman of the party, Viktor Yanukovych, as President of Ukraine.[112] Out of the 38 PoR deputies present, 36 voted in favor of ousting Yanukovych, while two did not take part in the vote.[113] Simultaneously both Yanukovych and former Prime Minister Mykola Azarov fled to Russia.[23] In a written statement the next day, the party denounced Yanukovych, stating they “strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world.”[114]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Regions

    Only Professor Jannisar still has a soft spot in his heart for the hat snatching crook!

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    gold toilet polisher
     
    The funniest thing is that even raiding the Yanuk’s mansion maidanistas showed that they are no better than him: that much talked about golden toilet was stolen by maidanistas, never to be heard of again. LOL.

    FYI, I never denied that Yanuk was a crook and a thief. The problem of Ukraine is that all its “presidents”, before and after Yanuk, are also crooks and thieves (should have used past tense for Kravchuk, may he rot in hell).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  760. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    An "unconstitutional coup" where Yanukovych's own party members denounced the scoundrel Yanukovych. Why should Europeans treat the gold toilet polisher any better than his own Donbasians' did?


    On 22 February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the Ukrainian parliament voted to impeach the honorary chairman of the party, Viktor Yanukovych, as President of Ukraine.[112] Out of the 38 PoR deputies present, 36 voted in favor of ousting Yanukovych, while two did not take part in the vote.[113] Simultaneously both Yanukovych and former Prime Minister Mykola Azarov fled to Russia.[23] In a written statement the next day, the party denounced Yanukovych, stating they "strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world."[114]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Regions

    Only Professor Jannisar still has a soft spot in his heart for the hat snatching crook!

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    gold toilet polisher

    The funniest thing is that even raiding the Yanuk’s mansion maidanistas showed that they are no better than him: that much talked about golden toilet was stolen by maidanistas, never to be heard of again. LOL.

    FYI, I never denied that Yanuk was a crook and a thief. The problem of Ukraine is that all its “presidents”, before and after Yanuk, are also crooks and thieves (should have used past tense for Kravchuk, may he rot in hell).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm sure that you feel cheated because Putler's initial plan to take Kyiv failed so ignobly? Putler was to reinstall "his man Yanukovych" back upon his newly gold plated toilet. The internet was ablaze with this news on March 2:


    Ukrayinska Pravda, an independent online publication, cited a Ukrainian intelligence official as saying that Yanukovych, who has been living in exile in Russia since fleeing Ukraine in 2014, is currently in Belarus, waiting for Russian troops to take Kyiv and Putin to declare him the country’s new president.
     
    Like so many of Putler's early plans for Ukraine, they all look rather stupid at this point.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    This is a bit pedantic, but the missing item was not the gold toilet but the golden replica of a loaf of bread:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukrainians-try-to-solve-the-mystery-of-the-golden-loaf-1430781099

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  761. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    gold toilet polisher
     
    The funniest thing is that even raiding the Yanuk’s mansion maidanistas showed that they are no better than him: that much talked about golden toilet was stolen by maidanistas, never to be heard of again. LOL.

    FYI, I never denied that Yanuk was a crook and a thief. The problem of Ukraine is that all its “presidents”, before and after Yanuk, are also crooks and thieves (should have used past tense for Kravchuk, may he rot in hell).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    I’m sure that you feel cheated because Putler’s initial plan to take Kyiv failed so ignobly? Putler was to reinstall “his man Yanukovych” back upon his newly gold plated toilet. The internet was ablaze with this news on March 2:

    Ukrayinska Pravda, an independent online publication, cited a Ukrainian intelligence official as saying that Yanukovych, who has been living in exile in Russia since fleeing Ukraine in 2014, is currently in Belarus, waiting for Russian troops to take Kyiv and Putin to declare him the country’s new president.

    Like so many of Putler’s early plans for Ukraine, they all look rather stupid at this point.

    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack

    Whoever invents fakes for “Ukrainian Pravda” should be fired. The idea of installing Yanuk as president in Ukraine is as stupid as the idea that the Moon is made of blue cheese. Nobody would ever put that piece of shit into any position of responsibility. Sometimes the US promotes hopeless shit (e.g., Guiado, Tikhanovskaya), but Putin never does that.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  762. Very recently, the Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church MP, Onufrey, had a terrible thing happen to him, during the liturgical celebration of his own 32 year as an ordained bishop. A fellow celebrant, the Metropolitan of Mykolaiv, Piterinov, was feeling ill and fell on Onufrey causing the chalice with the Holy gifts to fall directly upon Onufrey. To perhaps an outsider one might shrug his shoulders and pronounce the whole affair to a bad accident and let it go at that. But to an Orthodox believer, this is considered to be a very ominous sign showing that the Lord’s favor has fallen away from the one holding the chalice, I emphasize that it’s considered to be one of the highest of transgressions imaginable “the supplicant is literally covered in the blood of the Savior”. I feel sorry for Onufrey, as he seemed to be rather level headed and condemned Putler’s war within Ukraine.
    https://glavcom.ua/country/society/bozhij-znak-mitropolit-onufrij-rozliv-chashu-z-prichastjam-894392.html

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack

    Old age is unkind to people. Just look at Biden.

  763. 2% of Cubans moved to the US this year. From the pictures I’ve seen, they appear much blacker than the early waves.

    This is a interesting phenomenon, IMO, with two possible interpretations. One is that it is easier than ever for migrants to get into the US. (I think this the most likely explanation). Second is that the ideological campaign to call the US racist has either waned significantly in Cuba, or else the proliferation of people watching Hollywood movies on USB drives has resulted in them seeing that blacks are, in fact, worshipped in the US. (which I think would come through, even over the themes of racism.)

    Believe 2% of male Albanians (likely much higher in the youth cohorts) also moved to the UK this year.

  764. @Mr. Hack
    Very recently, the Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church MP, Onufrey, had a terrible thing happen to him, during the liturgical celebration of his own 32 year as an ordained bishop. A fellow celebrant, the Metropolitan of Mykolaiv, Piterinov, was feeling ill and fell on Onufrey causing the chalice with the Holy gifts to fall directly upon Onufrey. To perhaps an outsider one might shrug his shoulders and pronounce the whole affair to a bad accident and let it go at that. But to an Orthodox believer, this is considered to be a very ominous sign showing that the Lord's favor has fallen away from the one holding the chalice, I emphasize that it's considered to be one of the highest of transgressions imaginable "the supplicant is literally covered in the blood of the Savior". I feel sorry for Onufrey, as he seemed to be rather level headed and condemned Putler's war within Ukraine.

    https://glavcom.ua/img/article/8943/92_main-v1670603838.jpg
    https://glavcom.ua/country/society/bozhij-znak-mitropolit-onufrij-rozliv-chashu-z-prichastjam-894392.html

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Old age is unkind to people. Just look at Biden.

  765. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    I'm sure that you feel cheated because Putler's initial plan to take Kyiv failed so ignobly? Putler was to reinstall "his man Yanukovych" back upon his newly gold plated toilet. The internet was ablaze with this news on March 2:


    Ukrayinska Pravda, an independent online publication, cited a Ukrainian intelligence official as saying that Yanukovych, who has been living in exile in Russia since fleeing Ukraine in 2014, is currently in Belarus, waiting for Russian troops to take Kyiv and Putin to declare him the country’s new president.
     
    Like so many of Putler's early plans for Ukraine, they all look rather stupid at this point.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Whoever invents fakes for “Ukrainian Pravda” should be fired. The idea of installing Yanuk as president in Ukraine is as stupid as the idea that the Moon is made of blue cheese. Nobody would ever put that piece of shit into any position of responsibility. Sometimes the US promotes hopeless shit (e.g., Guiado, Tikhanovskaya), but Putin never does that.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    You may feel that Yanukovych is not a worthy candidate to be the next president of Ukraine (as do I), but for Putler it could make perfect sense. He could take up the banner that Yanukovych was illegally removed from office due to an "unconstitutional coup" as you do in your comment #756. Putler could position himself as the supreme arbiter in a case of too much CIA interference, righting a wrong that never should have occurred. Why else would he let Yanukovych take refuge in Russia anway? It's a great opportunity to pull Yanukovych out of the closet and use him for something that he'd find quite useful...

    Replies: @Yevardian

  766. The DNC BigPharma Manda-vaxx fraud is collapsing. [MORE]

    Aaron Murray
    @murraymints82

    When will we get the twitter files on covid? The info on the suspension of the many doctors and scientists? Who was involved? Suppression of what has turned out to be factual information.

    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk

    Oh it is coming bigtime …

    Trump advocated safe & effective treatments such as HCQ. BigPharma has unlimited liability for every death they caused by spiking accurate medical information. Mudbloods & Purebloods alike can sue them into insolvency for lying.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

  767. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack


    gold toilet polisher
     
    The funniest thing is that even raiding the Yanuk’s mansion maidanistas showed that they are no better than him: that much talked about golden toilet was stolen by maidanistas, never to be heard of again. LOL.

    FYI, I never denied that Yanuk was a crook and a thief. The problem of Ukraine is that all its “presidents”, before and after Yanuk, are also crooks and thieves (should have used past tense for Kravchuk, may he rot in hell).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    This is a bit pedantic, but the missing item was not the gold toilet but the golden replica of a loaf of bread:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukrainians-try-to-solve-the-mystery-of-the-golden-loaf-1430781099

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    This is a bit pedantic, but the missing item was not the gold toilet but the golden replica of a loaf of bread:
     
    True enough. Except it was not “missing”, but stolen. We know by what kind of people.
  768. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    This is a bit pedantic, but the missing item was not the gold toilet but the golden replica of a loaf of bread:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukrainians-try-to-solve-the-mystery-of-the-golden-loaf-1430781099

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    This is a bit pedantic, but the missing item was not the gold toilet but the golden replica of a loaf of bread:

    True enough. Except it was not “missing”, but stolen. We know by what kind of people.

  769. We must send an expedition to Japan in order to sequence the DNA of any stuffed wolves or wolf bones there, for Japanese wolves were really Pleistocene wolves afflicted with island dwarfism, and we need their DNA to make proper neo-dogs.

  770. SK spent $200 billion on trying to increase fertility over the past 16 years. (actually not a lot, when you consider the scale and importance of the problem.)

    Not an expert on Korean culture, by any means, but I can’t really think of any Korean movie I’ve seen that has a pro-natalist message. From my highly superficial knowledge of it, they are certainly failing on the level of propaganda.

  771. @A123
    @songbird


    Call me cynical, but I find it very weird how the sunflower is being promoted as Ukraine’s national symbol.
     
    I suspect that every nation has a national flower. Yes, America selected the rose. How original.

    Then each U.S. state has a flower [MORE]. Kansas directly shares the sunflower with Ukraine. Florida's orange blossom is also crop symbolism. I generally think of state flowers as children friendly trivia to lead into a drier historical topic. Usually some explorer found, left, or was inspired by.

    I am vaguely surprised by the number of times sunflowers appear in Ukrainian promotional material. I suspect the absence of a threatening national animal contributes to this. America is The Eagle. Russia is The Bear. Ukraine is The Nightingale. That just does not work as war imagery.

    PEACE 😇



     
    https://i.imgur.com/Whx5VT5.jpg

    Replies: @songbird

    I am vaguely surprised by the number of times sunflowers appear in Ukrainian promotional material. I suspect the absence of a threatening national animal contributes to this. America is The Eagle. Russia is The Bear. Ukraine is The Nightingale. That just does not work as war imagery.

    Have you ever read Ringworld? What if they engineered their sunflowers to be like the ones mentioned in the story?

    • LOL: A123
  772. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    I have visited London as tourist more than some times, more in summer.
     
    Yes I have visited many times before, though usually with family. This time I’m going with friends so it is more exciting.



    I’m currently in Paris, just arrived today. Will stay for 2 more days before heading for London. We went to a nice Italian restaurant recommended by our hotel receptionist. It is called Pendino.

    Previously when I had been to Paris I went to 5-star Michelin restaurants and the like. Absolutely detested it. I was once talking to a Chinese friend of mine from college and we were mocking how long it takes for the food to come and the minuscule portions served in these restaurants. Didn’t really like the food either.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow. More reliable and consistent IMO. The high-brow stuff are always at risk of pretension and absurdity.

    We aren’t too sophisticated so we don’t have anything planned in mind. Just asking random recommendations and searching stuff online as we go along.

    I don’t have time to visit the traditional touristic monuments in Paris or London, the stay is too short. Besides I have already been to most of them before.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.

    As for people in the forum meeting. I kind of remember AP (?) and Mikel (?) said they were meeting people in different places. Maybe Mr Hack as well? With Mikel, I am sure I would be tortured in the garage for previous comments in relation to Mormon Church
     
    LOL. AP, Mr. Hack and Mikel are in the US so I probably cannot meet them. Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age, which is perhaps workable in a forum but will cause awkwardness face to face. It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age

    I had impression AP is not what people call “young man”, but let’s say he could be in first half of his life. Anyone in the first half of life, should be called a young man. But sure he sometimes likes to argue against us using depressing “prematurely elderly man” politics, with pensioners’ kind of opinion. For example, when he posting those maps about how we should all hate the Eastern Ukrainians. But the indicators in the map are often indicating Eastern Ukrainians are more fun people than Western Ukrainians. It is like the things grandfathers would use to argue why the Soviet Union was better. But my impression when I see those debates, is to feel like the Eastern Ukrainian culture are more sympathetic than Western Ukrainians.

    On the other hand, AP was admiring Boris Johnson’s more exciting lifestyle, where he doesn’t know how many children he has. So perhaps he is not so boring as he pretends.

    I wonder Mr Hack might be much older. But he seems more a hippy with “young man’s” views.

    It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

    Although maybe I am too much in corporate life, where we are mixed up ages, but among us, the older people want to “party of all night” and the younger people usually want to go home early.

    I have visited many times before,

    I like visiting Paris and London if I can find an opportunity. But I usually visit in summer. For Paris, maybe winter is better as it is a bit less crowded with tourists.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been

    In London there is “Tosca”, which is a very popular opera. https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/tosca-by-jonathan-kent-dates

    In Paris, there is “Marriage of Figaro”, a bit less recommended. https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-22-23/opera/le-nozze-di-figaro

    I’m not fan of ballet but there is “Swan Lake” in Paris now which is probably the most popular ballet with its famous music. https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-22-23/ballet/swan-lake

    imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners

    Price for those things is varying more with the position of the seats. If the acoustics are well designed (which is not usually in old concert halls), you can go to the worse position of seats for cheaper prices and it should sound good though. Though concert halls in London and Paris mainly are not famous for acoustics.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow.

    My restaurant preference is more like lowbrow Chinese or Middle Eastern food. I was just watching YouTuber talking about the cheap food in Cairo.

    But middlebrow style of food of English/Irish restaurants is very good. It would be usually heavy food though.

    For heavy local style food London, in the $50-100 budget go to those below. They have many branches
    https://thehawksmoor.com/locations/airstreet/food/lunch-dinner/
    https://theblacklock.com/menus/
    Or if you can more than $100 budget
    https://www.sophiessteakhouse.com/soho

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Dmitry


    Anyone in the first half of life, should be called a young man.
     
    So, a woman who is going to live 100 years should be called young woman at 49? I don’t think so.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  773. @Yevardian
    @AnonfromTN


    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.
     
    I thinking... usually the non-synoptic John is considered the 'mystical' one, but off-hand I don't recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded, though Paul frequently does in his letters.
    If I remember right, both Luke and Matthew drew upon a lost source 'Q', both postdating Mark by a few years. And Luke had quite good Greek, whilst Matthew and Mark clearly show the influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax and even some sloppy grammar in Mark's case.

    The NT apocrypha has curiosity value sure, but people get an over inflated idea of the importance of the apocryphal from sensationalist reporting. There's very little evidence that any of them were every widely accepted ('The Shepherd' except, though its content is very conventional anyway), the gnostic gospels were certainly always marginal. Others were simply never widely disseminated because of the banal reason they were of poor literary quality (gospels of Jesus' childhood and the like).
    Probably the most radical and widespread early Christian movement, Marcionism, was notable mostly for rejection of the entire OT.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.
     
    For some reason I could never get into Bulgakov. I liked his 'Doctor's Notes' and 'White Guard' much better than 'Master', although perhaps that's simply due to the stressed circumstances in which I read the last one. Only truly Soviet author I've really taken a shine to is Dovlatov and his (semi-fictionalised?) autobiographical trashy escapades.
    The greatest Russian authors of the 20th Century to me would be Nabokov, Bunin and Bely.

    @Yahya

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.
     
    Classical concernts were a pretty regular event for us since my father plays in an orchestra. You'll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Dmitry, @Yahya

    influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax

    They were writing in a third language, but people writing using their non-mother’s tongue has pluses, not only minuses.

    They have to write in a more basic way, with less sophisticated or subtle ideas. But this also implies the text can be more accessible, simple and universal.

    Well, you know, Old Testament is more high quality writing, with beautiful images, complexity, density of concepts and words. But I could never read it easily, as I would stop after about 15 pages. I never was able to read all the text.

    It’s another high quality, but difficult to read or enjoy, ancient text (like many ancient texts), and therefore I didn’t read it much.

    On the other hand, New Testament, is more low quality, a bit like the children’s comic, although mixed with some beautiful mystical wisdom in some of the teaching of Jesus. But it’s very accessible, one of the most accessible of any text from the ancient world.

    I read New Testament many times, including in situations where you don’t have good attention, like traveling. Therefore, thousands of years later, we are reading much more New Testament than Old Testament.

    There is a kind of genius of New Testament, as most ancient texts are quite unaccessible. Its accessibility is very impressive. The success of this, can be partly because of the authors writing in the language which was not native. Although its authors would probably be also great communicators in their primary language.

  774. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    Don’t think it will work out either, they are twice or thrice my age
     
    I had impression AP is not what people call "young man", but let's say he could be in first half of his life. Anyone in the first half of life, should be called a young man. But sure he sometimes likes to argue against us using depressing "prematurely elderly man" politics, with pensioners' kind of opinion. For example, when he posting those maps about how we should all hate the Eastern Ukrainians. But the indicators in the map are often indicating Eastern Ukrainians are more fun people than Western Ukrainians. It is like the things grandfathers would use to argue why the Soviet Union was better. But my impression when I see those debates, is to feel like the Eastern Ukrainian culture are more sympathetic than Western Ukrainians.

    On the other hand, AP was admiring Boris Johnson's more exciting lifestyle, where he doesn't know how many children he has. So perhaps he is not so boring as he pretends.

    I wonder Mr Hack might be much older. But he seems more a hippy with "young man's" views.


    It’s funny because they don’t seem all that different mentally and behavioral than me online, but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.

     

    Although maybe I am too much in corporate life, where we are mixed up ages, but among us, the older people want to "party of all night" and the younger people usually want to go home early.

    I have visited many times before,
     
    I like visiting Paris and London if I can find an opportunity. But I usually visit in summer. For Paris, maybe winter is better as it is a bit less crowded with tourists.

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been
     
    In London there is "Tosca", which is a very popular opera. https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/tosca-by-jonathan-kent-dates

    In Paris, there is "Marriage of Figaro", a bit less recommended. https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-22-23/opera/le-nozze-di-figaro

    I'm not fan of ballet but there is "Swan Lake" in Paris now which is probably the most popular ballet with its famous music. https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-22-23/ballet/swan-lake


    imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners
     
    Price for those things is varying more with the position of the seats. If the acoustics are well designed (which is not usually in old concert halls), you can go to the worse position of seats for cheaper prices and it should sound good though. Though concert halls in London and Paris mainly are not famous for acoustics.

    My tastes in restaurants are like my tastes in movies. I like the middle-brow more than the high-brow.
     
    My restaurant preference is more like lowbrow Chinese or Middle Eastern food. I was just watching YouTuber talking about the cheap food in Cairo.

    But middlebrow style of food of English/Irish restaurants is very good. It would be usually heavy food though.

    For heavy local style food London, in the $50-100 budget go to those below. They have many branches
    https://thehawksmoor.com/locations/airstreet/food/lunch-dinner/
    https://theblacklock.com/menus/
    Or if you can more than $100 budget
    https://www.sophiessteakhouse.com/soho

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Anyone in the first half of life, should be called a young man.

    So, a woman who is going to live 100 years should be called young woman at 49? I don’t think so.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AnonfromTN

    If you ask her when she is 20 years old, she would usually think 49 is a quite old woman. But if you ask the same woman when she is 100 years old, of course she will feel that 49 years old is a young women.

    Individual perception of young and old, is relative to your age. And quantity of time you will be in each age, is depending on your lifespan. So for a person who will live until 100, there will be equal time when 49 seems young and old (or actually more of their life 49 will seem young, as most people are not very conscious for the first few years). For a person who lives until 120, there will be even more time to consider it young. But not so many years of this perception, for the person who only lives until 60.

    Perception of the community of age, is relative to age of the people perceiving. In Angola, where the median age is a teenager, someone who is 28 years old can seem like an old man relative to the total community. But in Japan, where median age is almost 50, the person who is 28 will be seen as young relative to total community.

    Within profession, there is also a lot of difference according to normal trajectory of career. For example, Obama was seen as a young president when he was early 50s. Obama was below median age of presidents and this perception is that he is young, in relation to the profession. But if he was a football player, someone over 50 would have seemed really old, and we would have perceived him like this as the perception is relative to the comparison selection.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  775. @Barbarossa
    @Yahya


    but dynamics with older people changes offline I guess.
     
    I think in some regard that this is a consequence of rigid age separation in education. It seems to make for what is really a strangely rigid preference in many for their own age cohort.

    I was home schooled and my own kids are as well and while many people always talk about being concerned with socialization, I think it can be superior in that regard. My own experience, observation of other home schoolers, and my own kids seems to demonstrate a much lower age group preference. Personally I enjoy talking and socializing with people of any age group pretty equally and don't even register a real "generational divide". My own kids are very much at home with either younger kids or much older adults, but of course their playmates are most generally close in age.

    So, I feel that a strong peer age preference in adulthood is more socially conditioned than anything.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Didn’t Yahya say he is from Egypt? I wonder if they have significant age separation there? I don’t know much about the Egyptian culture though.

    But many Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain have significant age separation for social life. Different pubs, often have different age customers in Mediterranean countries. So, you see the pub where everyone has grey hair and another pub with young students. But the two pubs look like they are same, except for the different age of people.

    consequence of rigid age separation in education

    In working life, even if you were in an intense graduate program with other young starters, you will soon be mixed with all your different aged colleagues, and you learn the older people are often more immature than you are. Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.

    I would say in office reality, sometimes the 45 year olds are becoming more like teenagers, with the kind of sense of humor we lost in highschool. For myself, I’m not sure I’m looking forward to becoming like a teenager again at that age, although it is a paradoxical kind of mature professionalism when you have such an expert level of relaxation at work that you behave like an immature teenager again.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Dmitry


    But many Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain have significant age separation for social life. Different pubs, often have different age customers in Mediterranean countries. So, you see the pub where everyone has grey hair and another pub with young students. But the two pubs look like they are same, except for the different age of people.
     
    I'm only speculating here, but I suspect such social separation between the young and old doesn't really exist in countries like Egypt, with a comparatively extremely young population compared to Europe (and also too poor to condemn their relatives to 'nursing homes'). When the median age of a society is still in its 20s, there isn't much room for separate establishments specifically for the elderly, who generally consume much less than young people too.
    At least in Australia or the post-Soviet world (the only places I've lived rather than simply visited as a tourist), you do often get the feeling your society is overwhelmingly dominated by old people. But although my impressions were only that of a visitor, I felt Middle-Eastern countries had a youthful 'energy' that permeated their society in the way that felt refreshing to me. But of course, this may and probably is just typical romanticising of poorer 'exotic' countries by Westerners.
    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.
     
    This is part of an explanation but the other part is that the youth really are more rigid, fearful and Puritanical in their behaviour than are their elders. It’s a paradox, because their actual ideology is much more debauched than ours had been. Did that make us more hypocritical? In which our hypocrisy was the tribute that vice payed to virtue to repeat the old phrase. There are less of that when there is less virtue.

    One of my friends/colleagues, age around 50, toured his alma mater with his kid who will be going to university. My friend contrasted his youth with that of this generation’s youth. He described how in the early 90s during a wild party inspired by a sports victory the students flooded the hallway with beer and the boys slid through it naked in front of the girls. Sofas were thrown out the window and set on fire. Riot police had to break up the party, one his buddies (now a successful dentist) was bit in the ass by a police dog.

    Today - it’s pretty quiet. The kids sometimes demonstrate for things like Black Lives Matter. When they enter the workforce, they will be the ones who will report coworkers to Human Resources for transgressions. They have less sex, but place sex workers on pedestals. They justify crimes and call for criminals to be released. Etc. It’s amusing in a way.

    Replies: @Mikel

  776. @AnonfromTN
    @Dmitry


    Anyone in the first half of life, should be called a young man.
     
    So, a woman who is going to live 100 years should be called young woman at 49? I don’t think so.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    If you ask her when she is 20 years old, she would usually think 49 is a quite old woman. But if you ask the same woman when she is 100 years old, of course she will feel that 49 years old is a young women.

    Individual perception of young and old, is relative to your age. And quantity of time you will be in each age, is depending on your lifespan. So for a person who will live until 100, there will be equal time when 49 seems young and old (or actually more of their life 49 will seem young, as most people are not very conscious for the first few years). For a person who lives until 120, there will be even more time to consider it young. But not so many years of this perception, for the person who only lives until 60.

    Perception of the community of age, is relative to age of the people perceiving. In Angola, where the median age is a teenager, someone who is 28 years old can seem like an old man relative to the total community. But in Japan, where median age is almost 50, the person who is 28 will be seen as young relative to total community.

    Within profession, there is also a lot of difference according to normal trajectory of career. For example, Obama was seen as a young president when he was early 50s. Obama was below median age of presidents and this perception is that he is young, in relation to the profession. But if he was a football player, someone over 50 would have seemed really old, and we would have perceived him like this as the perception is relative to the comparison selection.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Dmitry

    Perceptions are trumped by reality. The speed of your reactions peaks between 20 and 25, then declines; your sexual prowess peaks between 15 and 30, then declines; your health is good until 40-45, then declines (there is a joke that if you are over 50 and wake up with no pains anywhere, you have died), etc. In some occupations (e.g., natural sciences, medicine, law) experience is a great contributor to success, so in biochemistry or cell biology your most productive years are 35-55, but at 50 you are still not as fast and healthy as a 25-year old. Whenever we underestimate pure biology, it comes and bites us.

  777. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It’s difficult to match from the teaching of Jesus, the religious culture of Jesus and people who wrote the New Testament, which is different to “pagan” religions of people who later develop it.
     
    Iirc, isn't this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT.

    This is regular teaching of Jesus to forget involuntary “this world community and family” and your real family are voluntary spiritual community, which you choose to join. It’s an important teaching which he says many times in different contexts and also says about himself.
     

    This is present in Mark, but it struck me it is not a complete portrayal of what kind of teachings Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus' relations with his father, which go in the other direction to this. I checked Mark's Gospel and I think the impression I got was right.

    So it introduces the contradiction between practical religion that is given to masses and the original religion and its text.
     
    I am not sure what your reconstruction of this 'original religion' involves and what sources it comes from but I have been intrigued by it since we started discussing these topics. Protestants, for example, have spiritual and theological reasons for adopting a strongly historicist approach (e.g. like TULIP for Calvinists), but if it is just a question of accurately describing things that were believed at particular times, why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    reconstruction of this ‘original religion’ involves

    Jesus was using “oral teaching”, so it might be possible to say you need to “reconstruct” his teaching like in Socrates, as there are only books written after he dies, nothing is there which he wrote directly.

    But Mark is written around time of the destruction of the Second Temple epoch (60-70) and the last canonized text will be written 110 AD as the highest estimate.

    So, for the belief of the new religion (or sect) between around 60 AD to 110 AD at latest, we know the self-reported views directly. There is not need for “reconstruction”, unless you believe the New Testament is not representing the views of the sect or emerging religion (like if there was secret teaching they do not include openly in their publication).

    Religion of the first century viewed Mary as one of the more not important people. Unless you would view the canonized books as complete misrepresentation of views of the sect (or developing religion) while Jesus was teaching, which is around 25(?)-33 AD, then we would extend this to from around 25(?)-110 AD.

    If canonized books were complete misrepresentation of views in lifetime of Jesus, then we have to say it is a blackbox. Even then, as we would not know views of lifetime of Jesus, then we would be able to talk about the openly reported views of around 60 AD to 110 AD, which we know directly.

    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?

    In the first century (also the second century, but this is less interesting), elevation of Mary is not part of the new religion. At least we know this, not to the extent we can exclude square-circles, but perhaps almost to extent we know things like “Paris is the capital of France”, or “Germany invaded Poland in 1939”.

    As we know Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, but the question “why Germany invaded Poland”, would include speculation for the motives, at least perhaps for amateurs.

    What is the motivation they added the worship of Mary, or elevation of Mary, to the religion in the later centuries? I’m not sure, but would perhaps speculate it is not only logical derivation from the question “why would god choose her” i.e. that he would choose a holy woman.

    There is the theological argument, of why would this woman is selected. Perhaps the theological argument is an important motive. By the 5th century, Mary has become is already central theological debate, with Nestorius exiled because of argument about her status.

    But there is also possible speculation about the more common sense motive, this addition matches popular and common views of the new cultures the religion spreads (i.e. historical “mother gods” of the people who are joining the religion) and how it is extremely popular part of religion even today.

    This argument is supported by cost of adding the new part to the religion, as it creates contradiction with emphasis of New Testament and also possibly contradiction with important teaching like Mark 3:20-35.

    As we know in the later centuries, there are arguments about addition, which is probably inevitable from the design perspective, as you can add a new balcony to your house, but someone would complain if it is not part of the original design and not be supported by foundations. On the other hand, there is no doubt, that our new balcony was one of the most popular parts of the house and continues as this today.

    this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT

    Jesus is the most important person in the New Testament, with miracles, sometimes human, but also sometimes has properties similar to a demigod.

    So, when later theology was written about incarnation, it can be something which first century people did not believe. But theological derivation can be still mainly consistent with a lot of New Testament (although of course, not perfectly) and belief of its writers.

    Elevating Mary is different and more of a problem, as the writers of New Testament do not view her as important and also Jesus does not view her as important (according to those writers), including in the direct reference where Jesus teaches his brother and mother are not his real family.

    Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus’ relations with his father, which go in the other direction t

    New Testament (which is at least representing views in 60-110 AD) has quite a voluntarist morality, where they say hundreds of times that the individuals’ choice is the determination of their fate, not their collective origin, This is also often in the teaching of Jesus. It is closer to Socrates, than some of the Iron age stories of the Old Testament.

    But you can see there are sometimes parts of this modern New Testament which remember more of Iron Age views. So, in gospels Matthew/ Luke https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A20-23&version=ASV Jesus is angry with the cities on lake Galilee, in particular where he was teaching in the beautiful city of Capernaum.

    Statistically, if you assume a property of “holy people”, there would be mix of “holy people” and “less holy”, in Capernaum, as any characteristic will usually be larger within group than between group. But here all the tribe there is going to Hades because Jesus was unpopular in the city. Ancient Judaism was already significantly individualist and voluntarist in a lot of the Second Temple times, but there is with this story the connection to the older texts of Genesis.

    So you can see occassionally a little of the older mood there. There is sense of the mood after the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD).

    he seemed to be explaining it using methods of comparative religion and some psychology of religion and I am pretty sure he is not a Protestant.

    Protestant or Catholic can walk over bridge. Perhaps Catholic believes it is a holy bridge, Protestant believes it is not a holy bridge. They can argue about whether it is a holy bridge or not. But the bridge is also originally something in the real world, not only subjective views about it (although of course these views will also be causally explained, related to their Skinner box conditioning, or on a lower level e.g. release of dopamine, when near this bridge the Catholic will feel warm emotions, the Protestant will not). For the engineer who builds the bridge, will have been thinking about the objective world, not so much the emotional attachment. This world is the same for both Protestants and Catholics, or wouldn’t vary with religion.

    Arguments between Protestants and Catholics are interesting historical information, or in emotional view of the understanding of the views of the second millennium.

    If you were historian of the Modern and Early Modern European epoch, arguments of Protestants and Catholics would be interesting as have causal effects in those particular centuries.

    But, for us, who are not working as Protestant or Catholic theologians, the more interesting question can be whether this speculation is accurate or not accurate description of what actually happened with these events from the 3rd century. This is what happened in the real world. I’m not sure the theologians justification for why Mary is elevated would be the complete explanation.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Jesus was using “oral teaching”, so it might be possible to say you need to “reconstruct” his teaching like in Socrates, as there are only books written after he dies, nothing is there which he wrote directly.
     
    Scholars have attempted to do this, there was a project called 'The Jesus Seminar'. They came up with an estimate of about 20% of Jesus' speech recorded in the Gospels as being from the historical Jesus.

    Unless you would view the canonized books as complete misrepresentation of views of the sect (or developing religion) while Jesus was teaching, which is around 25(?)-33 AD, then we would extend this to from around 25(?)-110 AD
     
    I have a somewhat old textbook (2003) that summarises the views of secular academic historians about the historical Jesus and his teachings. The dominant views explained there say that it is probable that Jesus was a Jewish preacher (some argument about how apocalyptic his teaching was) who did not believe that he was the messiah, son of God and so on, did not rise from the dead, was not especially universalist; and that much of the core content of Christianity as a religion was added after his death.

    This would indicate there is scope for disagreement about what the beliefs of Jesus and his immediate followers and the various people who compiled the Gospels were.

    These arguments would also suggest that much of the core content of Christianity as a religion came from people other than Jesus, including possibly pagan sources.

    So, when later theology was written about incarnation, it can be something which first century people did not believe. 
     

    This is the argument of Jehovah's Witnesses and Socinians iirc.

    In the first century (also the second century, but this is less interesting), elevation of Mary is not part of the new religion.
     
    The NT only seems to have a limited amount of information about devotional practices or about how all the different parts of it were interpreted by followers. The tendency to use typology related to the OT is clearly present in it all over the place though, which must have informed later Christian approaches.

    There is the theological argument, of why would this woman is selected. Perhaps the theological argument is an important motive.
     
    The basis of Marian veneration comes from Luke, the Magnificat and the fiat (these must be some of the better known passages about Mary in the NT?). This was connected with the content of John about Jesus as God the Son and Paul's teachings on original sin and Adam. They are also linked with the universalist message of the salvation of humanity and Paul's evocation of the cosmic Christ. The basis and theological content of most of it is present in the NT. Iirc the details about Mary's death would be the main later addition from tradition.

    For example; I was thinking about one of the most important everyday Marian devotions of the Catholic Church, the 'Hail Mary'. Most of this prayer is quotation from Luke's Gospel (the words of the angel's greeting combined with the exclamation of Elizabeth in Luke 1:26-52) combined with the idea from John's Gospel of Jesus as God the Son.


    New Testament (which is at least representing views in 60-110 AD) has quite a voluntarist morality, where they say hundreds of times that the individuals choice is the determination of their fate, not their collective origin
     
    We were discussing the importance of familial relationships in relation to beliefs about Mary, so yes, in one way voluntarism is clear, e.g. Jesus has apparently chosen to freely submit to obedience to his father to the point of death. As Mary choses to become his mother. Imo though, the whole thing about the birth of God's son in Israel leading to the salvation of the world is suggestive of the significance of familial themes in the NT.

    For the engineer who builds the bridge, will have been thinking about the objective world, not so much the emotional attachment. 
     
    Engineers seem to have various advantages over academic scholars in the humanities and the social sciences in their pursuit of knowledge of the objective world, given the specific and focused aspects of it they are interested in and the methods and sources of data they are able to use.

    I think there is more scope for discussion and emotional influences to come into play in relation to certain kinds of knowledge generated by the humanities (and truth about a major religion involves the confluence of multiple fields of scholarship). A good example is the question of miraculous events or divinely inspired teachers, all the major world religions are open to these things influencing or existing in reality, whereas secular academia has to put them to one side.


    Arguments between Protestants and Catholics are interesting historical information, or in emotional view of the understanding of the views of the second millennium.
     
    Probably beyond that, a recent example by a historian who has been drawing attention to this topic:

    https://unherd.com/2022/11/humanism-is-a-heresy/

  778. @Dmitry
    @AnonfromTN

    If you ask her when she is 20 years old, she would usually think 49 is a quite old woman. But if you ask the same woman when she is 100 years old, of course she will feel that 49 years old is a young women.

    Individual perception of young and old, is relative to your age. And quantity of time you will be in each age, is depending on your lifespan. So for a person who will live until 100, there will be equal time when 49 seems young and old (or actually more of their life 49 will seem young, as most people are not very conscious for the first few years). For a person who lives until 120, there will be even more time to consider it young. But not so many years of this perception, for the person who only lives until 60.

    Perception of the community of age, is relative to age of the people perceiving. In Angola, where the median age is a teenager, someone who is 28 years old can seem like an old man relative to the total community. But in Japan, where median age is almost 50, the person who is 28 will be seen as young relative to total community.

    Within profession, there is also a lot of difference according to normal trajectory of career. For example, Obama was seen as a young president when he was early 50s. Obama was below median age of presidents and this perception is that he is young, in relation to the profession. But if he was a football player, someone over 50 would have seemed really old, and we would have perceived him like this as the perception is relative to the comparison selection.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Perceptions are trumped by reality. The speed of your reactions peaks between 20 and 25, then declines; your sexual prowess peaks between 15 and 30, then declines; your health is good until 40-45, then declines (there is a joke that if you are over 50 and wake up with no pains anywhere, you have died), etc. In some occupations (e.g., natural sciences, medicine, law) experience is a great contributor to success, so in biochemistry or cell biology your most productive years are 35-55, but at 50 you are still not as fast and healthy as a 25-year old. Whenever we underestimate pure biology, it comes and bites us.

  779. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Didn't Yahya say he is from Egypt? I wonder if they have significant age separation there? I don't know much about the Egyptian culture though.

    But many Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain have significant age separation for social life. Different pubs, often have different age customers in Mediterranean countries. So, you see the pub where everyone has grey hair and another pub with young students. But the two pubs look like they are same, except for the different age of people.


    consequence of rigid age separation in education
     
    In working life, even if you were in an intense graduate program with other young starters, you will soon be mixed with all your different aged colleagues, and you learn the older people are often more immature than you are. Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.

    I would say in office reality, sometimes the 45 year olds are becoming more like teenagers, with the kind of sense of humor we lost in highschool. For myself, I'm not sure I'm looking forward to becoming like a teenager again at that age, although it is a paradoxical kind of mature professionalism when you have such an expert level of relaxation at work that you behave like an immature teenager again.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @AP

    But many Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain have significant age separation for social life. Different pubs, often have different age customers in Mediterranean countries. So, you see the pub where everyone has grey hair and another pub with young students. But the two pubs look like they are same, except for the different age of people.

    I’m only speculating here, but I suspect such social separation between the young and old doesn’t really exist in countries like Egypt, with a comparatively extremely young population compared to Europe (and also too poor to condemn their relatives to ‘nursing homes’). When the median age of a society is still in its 20s, there isn’t much room for separate establishments specifically for the elderly, who generally consume much less than young people too.
    At least in Australia or the post-Soviet world (the only places I’ve lived rather than simply visited as a tourist), you do often get the feeling your society is overwhelmingly dominated by old people. But although my impressions were only that of a visitor, I felt Middle-Eastern countries had a youthful ‘energy’ that permeated their society in the way that felt refreshing to me. But of course, this may and probably is just typical romanticising of poorer ‘exotic’ countries by Westerners.

  780. @AnonfromTN
    @Mr. Hack

    Whoever invents fakes for “Ukrainian Pravda” should be fired. The idea of installing Yanuk as president in Ukraine is as stupid as the idea that the Moon is made of blue cheese. Nobody would ever put that piece of shit into any position of responsibility. Sometimes the US promotes hopeless shit (e.g., Guiado, Tikhanovskaya), but Putin never does that.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    You may feel that Yanukovych is not a worthy candidate to be the next president of Ukraine (as do I), but for Putler it could make perfect sense. He could take up the banner that Yanukovych was illegally removed from office due to an “unconstitutional coup” as you do in your comment #756. Putler could position himself as the supreme arbiter in a case of too much CIA interference, righting a wrong that never should have occurred. Why else would he let Yanukovych take refuge in Russia anway? It’s a great opportunity to pull Yanukovych out of the closet and use him for something that he’d find quite useful…

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Mr. Hack

    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

  781. @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN

    You may feel that Yanukovych is not a worthy candidate to be the next president of Ukraine (as do I), but for Putler it could make perfect sense. He could take up the banner that Yanukovych was illegally removed from office due to an "unconstitutional coup" as you do in your comment #756. Putler could position himself as the supreme arbiter in a case of too much CIA interference, righting a wrong that never should have occurred. Why else would he let Yanukovych take refuge in Russia anway? It's a great opportunity to pull Yanukovych out of the closet and use him for something that he'd find quite useful...

    Replies: @Yevardian

    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Yevardian


    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.
     
    Where's the conclusive documentation acknowledging this? Granted, the "Kremlins" are inconsistent when suggesting that the Kiev regime that toppled Yanuk is illegitimate, while having acted differently.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Yevardian


    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych
     
    I what particular lunatic asylum did this preposterous idea come out?
  782. Arthur Morgan
    @ArthurM40330824
    #Zelensky started to attack the #Orthodox churches
    Insisting for parishioners to sing #Ukranian hymn instead of the service. Resulting in conflicts. It is unclear what is the purpose perhaps #Orthodoxy is what connects #Ukraine to #Russia and Slavic roots. ill advised move

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    Where’s the conclusive documentation acknowledging this? That Zelensky was responsible for one group of Ukrainian citizens to sing the national anthem? Did it ever occur to you, that the majority of Ukrainian citizens are fed up with the UOC MP's role as a leading exp0nent of Russian fifth column activity within Ukraine? No orders from Zelensky are needed for Ukrainian citizens to show their patriotism and displeasure with the UOC MP when their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?

    Replies: @Beckow

  783. @Yevardian
    @Mr. Hack

    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.

    Where’s the conclusive documentation acknowledging this? Granted, the “Kremlins” are inconsistent when suggesting that the Kiev regime that toppled Yanuk is illegitimate, while having acted differently.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    Proof? Try using your brain for once Averko. Reread comment #784, think about it, and then try offering a coherent answer. For trying to make Ukraine a subservient vasal state, including a motive for interfering so brutally in Ukraine, Yanukovych would have been perfect for Putler.

    What does Putler have left to offer the world for his reckless behavior? "Chasing down Nazis" within civilian enclaves and indiscriminately killing helpless people?

  784. More on the inevitable –

  785. @Mikhail
    @Yevardian


    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.
     
    Where's the conclusive documentation acknowledging this? Granted, the "Kremlins" are inconsistent when suggesting that the Kiev regime that toppled Yanuk is illegitimate, while having acted differently.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Proof? Try using your brain for once Averko. Reread comment #784, think about it, and then try offering a coherent answer. For trying to make Ukraine a subservient vasal state, including a motive for interfering so brutally in Ukraine, Yanukovych would have been perfect for Putler.

    What does Putler have left to offer the world for his reckless behavior? “Chasing down Nazis” within civilian enclaves and indiscriminately killing helpless people?

    • Disagree: Mikhail
  786. @Mikhail

    Arthur Morgan
    @ArthurM40330824
    #Zelensky started to attack the #Orthodox churches
    Insisting for parishioners to sing #Ukranian hymn instead of the service. Resulting in conflicts. It is unclear what is the purpose perhaps #Orthodoxy is what connects #Ukraine to #Russia and Slavic roots. ill advised move
     


    https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/status/1602082401097744386

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Where’s the conclusive documentation acknowledging this? That Zelensky was responsible for one group of Ukrainian citizens to sing the national anthem? Did it ever occur to you, that the majority of Ukrainian citizens are fed up with the UOC MP’s role as a leading exp0nent of Russian fifth column activity within Ukraine? No orders from Zelensky are needed for Ukrainian citizens to show their patriotism and displeasure with the UOC MP when their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?

    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?
     
    Yes, it is quite ugly. Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what. You can shallowly talk about 'our lands' and 'staving off', those are empty slogans in every war.

    The 'lands' are fought over (not 'ours') and Russians have the same right to claim them - or more since they are a majority in most areas. How would it feel for thousands of Ukies from Kiev-Galicia to die for the Russian Crimea or Lugansk? Is that heroic to die for it? Or is it just stupid - dying for others' dreams, for Nato morons who would like to put military bases there and hold silly seminars.

    But you are too emotionally committed to understand it for now. You will get there eventually, after a lot of unnecessary killing. To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world. Why don't you just play video games? You could 'kill' Putin and Russians by thousands all day long...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mr. Hack

  787. @songbird
    @Mikel


    Males could always rape our ancient female ancestors but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like.
     
    Probably had quite a bite too.

    Guess it must be based on speculation that they either didn't have clothing, or else their clothing was rather poor - capes of hides, rather than shirts or breeches - and the fact that the place where the skull was found, Harbin, is quite cold in winter. Not a lot in the way of Denisovan remains, but, if this skull is one, there is speculation that its massive size is a adaptation to retain heat.

    There was a bone needle found in Denisova Cave, but the dating of it makes its origin unclear. Possibly from humans.

    Apparently, there are similar ideas about Neanderthals. There is some archaeological evidence to suppose that humans had better clothing. That's DNA from furry animals around their campfires and lots of needles. But I don't know how solid it is - there is some thought that Neanderthal string survives.

    Honestly, I don't see it myself. It is hard for me to conceive that the sort of cold adaptation necessary to survive without clothing at that latitude could happen on the timeframe possible. I'm not even sure that it is possible in something with a human form - in particular, I am thinking of the feet. (though I guess snow monkeys have something like human feet.)

    Ducks (highly cold-adapted) have an internal temperature of 106°F.

    Though, I have sometimes wondered why it seems like humans didn't pick up any lice from Neanderthals or Denisovans.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …skull… its massive size is a adaptation to retain heat.

    It was probably a slow process that optimized less need for jerky mobility that is typical of Africans and other humans from warmer climates against cold weather where small skulls are less survivable.

    The nastiness of our ancestors against each other had a positive evolutionary side. Other species don’t practise aggression within their own group or do it in narrow predefined or playful confines. We humans have developed an aggressive within species behaviors and that has helped dramatically with our evolution. Humans fought constantly within their small groups, they had to watch out for back-stabbing, attacks, etc…

    Humans for some reason turned their aggressiveness inward. Maybe it was triggered by an early awareness of rank and how it impacted access to resources. There is also an unusual evenness among humans – most young males are comparable in strength and ability and that leads to willingness to fight. It creates a more even playing field for man-woman pair-ups – and by early this century we have perfected pair-ups and optimized them for both success and quality. Then in the last few years the collapse of the Western culture has messed it up.

    The catastrophic state of man-woman bonding is at the core of other problems – it has devalued work, family, now even gender. The attempts to salvage the loser bottom 10-20% and include them (the sentimental liberal inclusiveness) are mainly to blame. But instead of 10-20% falling by the wayside we get a lot more…a typical result of trying to help, a charitable impulse on a societal level is the most dangerous thing…it destroys everything over time.

    • LOL: Sher Singh, Yevardian
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Beckow


    Other species don’t practise aggression within their own group or do it in narrow predefined or playful confines.
     
    I watched a few clips recently of wolverines interacting with other predators. What really struck me was how they seemed to test each other and then back off. One clip was a case of wild dogs surrounding a wolverine, but they eventually backed off, after it charged different individuals. Can't imagine a gang of hoods doing that, just because their prey showed a little moxy. Maybe, that is because people can get reinforcements.

    The catastrophic state of man-woman bonding is at the core of other problems – it has devalued work, family, now even gender.
     
    Minimum conditions for sustainable governance must be to write out single women from having any say in politics. Probably more complicated than that, but I don't see how it could be done without doing that.
  788. @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Didn't Yahya say he is from Egypt? I wonder if they have significant age separation there? I don't know much about the Egyptian culture though.

    But many Mediterranean countries like Italy and Spain have significant age separation for social life. Different pubs, often have different age customers in Mediterranean countries. So, you see the pub where everyone has grey hair and another pub with young students. But the two pubs look like they are same, except for the different age of people.


    consequence of rigid age separation in education
     
    In working life, even if you were in an intense graduate program with other young starters, you will soon be mixed with all your different aged colleagues, and you learn the older people are often more immature than you are. Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.

    I would say in office reality, sometimes the 45 year olds are becoming more like teenagers, with the kind of sense of humor we lost in highschool. For myself, I'm not sure I'm looking forward to becoming like a teenager again at that age, although it is a paradoxical kind of mature professionalism when you have such an expert level of relaxation at work that you behave like an immature teenager again.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @AP

    Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.

    This is part of an explanation but the other part is that the youth really are more rigid, fearful and Puritanical in their behaviour than are their elders. It’s a paradox, because their actual ideology is much more debauched than ours had been. Did that make us more hypocritical? In which our hypocrisy was the tribute that vice payed to virtue to repeat the old phrase. There are less of that when there is less virtue.

    One of my friends/colleagues, age around 50, toured his alma mater with his kid who will be going to university. My friend contrasted his youth with that of this generation’s youth. He described how in the early 90s during a wild party inspired by a sports victory the students flooded the hallway with beer and the boys slid through it naked in front of the girls. Sofas were thrown out the window and set on fire. Riot police had to break up the party, one his buddies (now a successful dentist) was bit in the ass by a police dog.

    Today – it’s pretty quiet. The kids sometimes demonstrate for things like Black Lives Matter. When they enter the workforce, they will be the ones who will report coworkers to Human Resources for transgressions. They have less sex, but place sex workers on pedestals. They justify crimes and call for criminals to be released. Etc. It’s amusing in a way.

    • Agree: Sher Singh, Yevardian
    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AP


    the youth really are more rigid, fearful and Puritanical in their behaviour than are their elders
     
    I couldn't agree more. I was certainly much more rebellious than any of my children. Most everybody was in my generation. In a way, people born after the eighties are more "right wing" than in the preceding couple of decades. They are more accepting of the rules, whatever they are.

    But the best explanation for behaving like a teen in the office is probably that if you are over 40 and have settled for a monotonous 9 to 5 job, you need some escape valve in order to stay sane. Humans didn't evolve to live like that. That also explains our spending so much time procrastinating here, by the way.

    Replies: @A123

  789. Foolish Sugar Coated Svidos

    The above header refers to those who periodically say they don’t support Bandera, while engaging in open discourse with such individuals and favoring the censorship and other suppression of pro-Russian sentiment.

    That very mindset explains why the Kiev regime can’t fully control all of the territory making up the former Ukrainian SSR.

    On another matter raised at this thread, if Putin wanted to make Yanuk Ukrainian prez, it’d stand to reason that he (Putin) would do such along the lines of how some treat Guaido and Tikhonwhateverskaya.

    Another observation on the subject notes that Tymoshenko, Yushchenko and Yatsenyuk aren’t considered in the running for any future head of state role. Yanuk is from their political era.

  790. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikhail

    Where’s the conclusive documentation acknowledging this? That Zelensky was responsible for one group of Ukrainian citizens to sing the national anthem? Did it ever occur to you, that the majority of Ukrainian citizens are fed up with the UOC MP's role as a leading exp0nent of Russian fifth column activity within Ukraine? No orders from Zelensky are needed for Ukrainian citizens to show their patriotism and displeasure with the UOC MP when their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?

    Replies: @Beckow

    …their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?

    Yes, it is quite ugly. Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what. You can shallowly talk about ‘our lands’ and ‘staving off’, those are empty slogans in every war.

    The ‘lands’ are fought over (not ‘ours’) and Russians have the same right to claim them – or more since they are a majority in most areas. How would it feel for thousands of Ukies from Kiev-Galicia to die for the Russian Crimea or Lugansk? Is that heroic to die for it? Or is it just stupid – dying for others’ dreams, for Nato morons who would like to put military bases there and hold silly seminars.

    But you are too emotionally committed to understand it for now. You will get there eventually, after a lot of unnecessary killing. To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world. Why don’t you just play video games? You could ‘kill’ Putin and Russians by thousands all day long…

    • Agree: QCIC
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    The ‘lands’ are being fought for and the Russian population has the same right to claim them – or more since they are a majority in most of them.
     
    Another big pile of BS from Beckow. Ukrainians have always held a mojority position in all of the oblasts of Ukraine, except for Crimea.

    To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world.
     
    More of your stupid nonsense. The Ukrainians are being killed by Russian soldiers being sent on orders of Putler and his maniacal supporters, not by any Ukie couch potato video enthusiasts. Wake up and smell the coffee Beckow.

    What's the matter with Averko, is he too brain dead to answer queries directed to him? Stupid video clips aren't a way to answer questions.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what.
     
    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than "saving Ukraine from Nazis" that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons? Nazi hunting that always ends up in civilian quarters, where the supposed "nazis" are elderly babushkas and didos who are minding their own business and who just want to get on with the daily chores etc.

    Replies: @AP, @Beckow

  791. An update on TARGET2: (1)

    ECB vs Fed

    In the US there is one Central Bank. There is a single 10-year government bond. The Eurozone has the ECB to set interest rate policy, but each nation has its own central bank.

    If all Eurozone sovereign debt was indeed equal, then 10-year yields in Italy and Germany would be the same. Instead, the 10-year rates in Germany and Italy are 1.94% and 3.80% respectively. Huge country-to-country differences are despite massive intervention by the ECB to equalize rates.

    Target2 is a kluge payment system that tries to make things fit but does not quite succeed.

    It is difficult to say how much of the imbalances are capital flight, debt, and knock-on effects of ECB manipulations. However, we can see the imbalances grow nearly every month, wondering when and how it finally matters.

    The only way to “fix” the underlying problem is for employment & economic activity to move:

    • Out of Germany
    • To Italy, Spain, and Greece

    Of course, we know that the Brussels/Davos/Berlin axis would vehemently oppose any solution that might succeed at rebalancing the € currency and ECB. The question is no longer “If” the EU/EZ will end in its current form. The Banshee wail has begun. All that remains are “When?” and “How?”

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/eurozone-target2-economic-imbalances-soar-money-cant-be-paid-back

  792. Mats Nilsson
    @mazzenilsson
    Ukrainian forces assault churches of the Orthodox Faith. Footage that resembles pogroms in the Pale, with elder parishioners terrorised by Banderite thughs, some of them members of Nationalist Battalions of the Ukrainian Army.

    [MORE]

  793. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?
     
    Yes, it is quite ugly. Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what. You can shallowly talk about 'our lands' and 'staving off', those are empty slogans in every war.

    The 'lands' are fought over (not 'ours') and Russians have the same right to claim them - or more since they are a majority in most areas. How would it feel for thousands of Ukies from Kiev-Galicia to die for the Russian Crimea or Lugansk? Is that heroic to die for it? Or is it just stupid - dying for others' dreams, for Nato morons who would like to put military bases there and hold silly seminars.

    But you are too emotionally committed to understand it for now. You will get there eventually, after a lot of unnecessary killing. To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world. Why don't you just play video games? You could 'kill' Putin and Russians by thousands all day long...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mr. Hack

    The ‘lands’ are being fought for and the Russian population has the same right to claim them – or more since they are a majority in most of them.

    Another big pile of BS from Beckow. Ukrainians have always held a mojority position in all of the oblasts of Ukraine, except for Crimea.

    To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world.

    More of your stupid nonsense. The Ukrainians are being killed by Russian soldiers being sent on orders of Putler and his maniacal supporters, not by any Ukie couch potato video enthusiasts. Wake up and smell the coffee Beckow.

    What’s the matter with Averko, is he too brain dead to answer queries directed to him? Stupid video clips aren’t a way to answer questions.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Oh, boy. I just checked and both Donetsk and Lugansk cities have always had a large Russian majorities. The countryside is more mixed, but by any standard the areas are more Russian, or Russian-speaking and leaning than Ukie. They have a lot more in common wit the neighboring Rostov than with Lviv.

    The willingness of coach potatoes like you to cheer on the slaughter of the Ukie conscripts is a big part of the problem. You have no skin in the game, tens of thousands dead are just 'noble sacrifices' for you, 'worth it'...the consequences of this massacre will be with us for years - losing this many men changes societies, Ukies could collapse as a coherent entity - who wants to be a part of a bloody dream?

    They will remember that Nuland or Boris Johnson were nowhere to be seen, they safely egg on the rather stupid Ukies to die from a distance. Now, who does that? Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory? Because that is what this is all about - Nato in Ukie-land right on the Russian border - all else could be and would be solved easily if it wasn't for the Nato expansion, they would find a compromise, autonomy, regional rights....it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for. So cheer that on and know what you are cheering for, don't hide behind empty slogans...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  794. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    The ‘lands’ are being fought for and the Russian population has the same right to claim them – or more since they are a majority in most of them.
     
    Another big pile of BS from Beckow. Ukrainians have always held a mojority position in all of the oblasts of Ukraine, except for Crimea.

    To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world.
     
    More of your stupid nonsense. The Ukrainians are being killed by Russian soldiers being sent on orders of Putler and his maniacal supporters, not by any Ukie couch potato video enthusiasts. Wake up and smell the coffee Beckow.

    What's the matter with Averko, is he too brain dead to answer queries directed to him? Stupid video clips aren't a way to answer questions.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Oh, boy. I just checked and both Donetsk and Lugansk cities have always had a large Russian majorities. The countryside is more mixed, but by any standard the areas are more Russian, or Russian-speaking and leaning than Ukie. They have a lot more in common wit the neighboring Rostov than with Lviv.

    The willingness of coach potatoes like you to cheer on the slaughter of the Ukie conscripts is a big part of the problem. You have no skin in the game, tens of thousands dead are just ‘noble sacrifices’ for you, ‘worth it’…the consequences of this massacre will be with us for years – losing this many men changes societies, Ukies could collapse as a coherent entity – who wants to be a part of a bloody dream?

    They will remember that Nuland or Boris Johnson were nowhere to be seen, they safely egg on the rather stupid Ukies to die from a distance. Now, who does that? Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory? Because that is what this is all about – Nato in Ukie-land right on the Russian border – all else could be and would be solved easily if it wasn’t for the Nato expansion, they would find a compromise, autonomy, regional rights….it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for. So cheer that on and know what you are cheering for, don’t hide behind empty slogans…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory?
     
    Nobody. You've rhetorically answered your own question. Ukrainians are fighting and dying to save and sever their country from Russia. Do you finally get it?

    it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for.
     
    No, no, it's the other way around. Ukrainians want to have the opportunity to belong to a strong military alliance that will protect them from further aggression from Russia, like the type that we're seeing today. The right that all the countries that were once a part of Russia's alliances have achieved for themselves, even new countries like Sweden and Finland have recently achieved for themselves. Even the small country that you live in now, Slovakia.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    I just checked and both Donetsk and Lugansk cities have always had a large Russian majorities
     
    You couldn’t help but lie as usual.

    Donetsk City was 48% Russian and 47% Ukrainian.

    Russians were a majority and for this reason I don’t think the city and its immediate environs should be part of Ukraine, but you couldn’t help yourself and lied about “always has a large majority.”

    The willingness of coach potatoes like you to cheer on the slaughter of the Ukie conscripts is a big part of the problem
     
    You wouldn’t understand that, given your history of constant servitude to whoever shows up in your country, but Ukrainians choose to fight to prevent invaders from seizing their country. They aren’t doing it because people in the West are cheering them on. It’s very telling that their motive is such a mystery to you.

    They will remember that Nuland or Boris Johnson were nowhere to be seen
     
    They will be grateful for the help provided. When had independence fighters been angry at those who helped them?

    it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for
     
    The liar twists things to say the opposite of reality. Ukraine wants to join NATO because of Russia. If not for Russian aggression Ukraine would not want to join NATO.

    Do you recommend that the Baltic Republics drop their NATO membership? Would you want your Slovakia to do so, if your country wasn’t lucky enough to hide behind Ukraine and if instead Russia came up to your border?

    Russia is not invading Finland as a result of Finland’s choice to join NATO. So this was always an empty excuse. Honest Russians will admit that they simply find it unacceptable for Ukraine to leave Russia, that Russia needs Ukraine in order to be a Great Power, that Ukrainians are Russians therefore that separation is wrong. Russia hoped that after Maidan Ukraine would collapse and try to come back, but instead Ukraine recovered without Russia. This was unacceptable. Something had to be done. NATO, Donbas shelling, language, these were excuses for consumption by low information Russians and dumb western useful idiots.
  795. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Oh, boy. I just checked and both Donetsk and Lugansk cities have always had a large Russian majorities. The countryside is more mixed, but by any standard the areas are more Russian, or Russian-speaking and leaning than Ukie. They have a lot more in common wit the neighboring Rostov than with Lviv.

    The willingness of coach potatoes like you to cheer on the slaughter of the Ukie conscripts is a big part of the problem. You have no skin in the game, tens of thousands dead are just 'noble sacrifices' for you, 'worth it'...the consequences of this massacre will be with us for years - losing this many men changes societies, Ukies could collapse as a coherent entity - who wants to be a part of a bloody dream?

    They will remember that Nuland or Boris Johnson were nowhere to be seen, they safely egg on the rather stupid Ukies to die from a distance. Now, who does that? Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory? Because that is what this is all about - Nato in Ukie-land right on the Russian border - all else could be and would be solved easily if it wasn't for the Nato expansion, they would find a compromise, autonomy, regional rights....it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for. So cheer that on and know what you are cheering for, don't hide behind empty slogans...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory?

    Nobody. You’ve rhetorically answered your own question. Ukrainians are fighting and dying to save and sever their country from Russia. Do you finally get it?

    it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for.

    No, no, it’s the other way around. Ukrainians want to have the opportunity to belong to a strong military alliance that will protect them from further aggression from Russia, like the type that we’re seeing today. The right that all the countries that were once a part of Russia’s alliances have achieved for themselves, even new countries like Sweden and Finland have recently achieved for themselves. Even the small country that you live in now, Slovakia.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...it’s the other way around
     
    A bit of chicken-and-egg, so we won't agree.

    It is indisputable that without Nato expansion to Ukraine there would be no war. No thousands of dead Ukies. That suggest that in this chicken-and-egg dilemma the initial trigger was done by Nato.

    You can spout nonsense about 'a right to join a military alliance' all day long...can Canada form a military alliance with China? Can Mexico with Russia? Can Ireland with Russia? You talk nonsense, that's not the way it ever works. Nato knew this, they tried to bluff their way in or even intentionally wanted to have a war. Why not? It is the Ukies who are dying.

    Do you know what people who die for others' interests are called? Do you really think after this is over they will proudly look back and say, "yeah, he died for the right of Nato to have a base in Ochakov" (or Crimea).

    You are totally off, Russia will not lose the war and the dead are not coming back. If it warms up your heart that "Russians are dying, too!" - as it seems to - you are one sick puppy. Schadenfreude is a fleeting and rather stupid emotion - it gives you literally nothing.

  796. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Younger workers have to pretend to be serious, especially if you are more junior, older workers sometimes have learned to relax and enjoy the office like children.
     
    This is part of an explanation but the other part is that the youth really are more rigid, fearful and Puritanical in their behaviour than are their elders. It’s a paradox, because their actual ideology is much more debauched than ours had been. Did that make us more hypocritical? In which our hypocrisy was the tribute that vice payed to virtue to repeat the old phrase. There are less of that when there is less virtue.

    One of my friends/colleagues, age around 50, toured his alma mater with his kid who will be going to university. My friend contrasted his youth with that of this generation’s youth. He described how in the early 90s during a wild party inspired by a sports victory the students flooded the hallway with beer and the boys slid through it naked in front of the girls. Sofas were thrown out the window and set on fire. Riot police had to break up the party, one his buddies (now a successful dentist) was bit in the ass by a police dog.

    Today - it’s pretty quiet. The kids sometimes demonstrate for things like Black Lives Matter. When they enter the workforce, they will be the ones who will report coworkers to Human Resources for transgressions. They have less sex, but place sex workers on pedestals. They justify crimes and call for criminals to be released. Etc. It’s amusing in a way.

    Replies: @Mikel

    the youth really are more rigid, fearful and Puritanical in their behaviour than are their elders

    I couldn’t agree more. I was certainly much more rebellious than any of my children. Most everybody was in my generation. In a way, people born after the eighties are more “right wing” than in the preceding couple of decades. They are more accepting of the rules, whatever they are.

    But the best explanation for behaving like a teen in the office is probably that if you are over 40 and have settled for a monotonous 9 to 5 job, you need some escape valve in order to stay sane. Humans didn’t evolve to live like that. That also explains our spending so much time procrastinating here, by the way.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikel


    if you are over 40 and have settled for a monotonous 9 to 5 job, you need some escape valve in order to stay sane. Humans didn’t evolve to live like that. That also explains our spending so much time procrastinating here, by the way.
     
    Using ones own mobile device is now much less dangerous than chatting around the water cooler. 20 years ago guys around guys could talk about the hot new girl in Accounting. Now, that is a "career limiting move" + lecture from HR. The ladies had their own space.

    PEACE 😇
  797. @Mikel
    @AP


    the youth really are more rigid, fearful and Puritanical in their behaviour than are their elders
     
    I couldn't agree more. I was certainly much more rebellious than any of my children. Most everybody was in my generation. In a way, people born after the eighties are more "right wing" than in the preceding couple of decades. They are more accepting of the rules, whatever they are.

    But the best explanation for behaving like a teen in the office is probably that if you are over 40 and have settled for a monotonous 9 to 5 job, you need some escape valve in order to stay sane. Humans didn't evolve to live like that. That also explains our spending so much time procrastinating here, by the way.

    Replies: @A123

    if you are over 40 and have settled for a monotonous 9 to 5 job, you need some escape valve in order to stay sane. Humans didn’t evolve to live like that. That also explains our spending so much time procrastinating here, by the way.

    Using ones own mobile device is now much less dangerous than chatting around the water cooler. 20 years ago guys around guys could talk about the hot new girl in Accounting. Now, that is a “career limiting move” + lecture from HR. The ladies had their own space.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Mikel
  798. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...their own sons, brothers and husbands are returning home in body bags after valiantly trying to stave off a Russian invasion of their lands?
     
    Yes, it is quite ugly. Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what. You can shallowly talk about 'our lands' and 'staving off', those are empty slogans in every war.

    The 'lands' are fought over (not 'ours') and Russians have the same right to claim them - or more since they are a majority in most areas. How would it feel for thousands of Ukies from Kiev-Galicia to die for the Russian Crimea or Lugansk? Is that heroic to die for it? Or is it just stupid - dying for others' dreams, for Nato morons who would like to put military bases there and hold silly seminars.

    But you are too emotionally committed to understand it for now. You will get there eventually, after a lot of unnecessary killing. To a large extent the blood of these hapless Ukie cannon-fodder sacrifices is on your hands, on the hands of remote enthusiasts living in a fantasy world. Why don't you just play video games? You could 'kill' Putin and Russians by thousands all day long...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mr. Hack

    Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what.

    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than “saving Ukraine from Nazis” that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons? Nazi hunting that always ends up in civilian quarters, where the supposed “nazis” are elderly babushkas and didos who are minding their own business and who just want to get on with the daily chores etc.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than “saving Ukraine from Nazis” that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons
     
    Apparently, some Russians think they are in Ukraine to fight Poles:



    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1602256239064498183?s=46&t=wpyhi3UZ-yzu1veTSN4LEA

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    , @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    You create a straw-man and then giggle about it, how very dumb.

    Russians know what they are fighting for: to preserve their existence as a country. They know fully well that if the Nato adventure in Ukraine succeeds, the future of Russia will be as a threatened, eventually powerless, appendage to the West - with Nato a few hundred km's from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up.

    As in all countries, I am sure many Russians don't see it quite that way, they may feel that the war is stupid and that there was no risk. We will never know - but it is entirely predictable that any self-respecting country would not allow itself to be put in a position of weakness, Russia said it was a 'red line', Ukies should had listened. Instead they lined up to die in large numbers for Nato.

    US would never allow Mexico or Canada to become an armed, hostile country. Smaller places like Cuba can be tolerated and controlled, as Russia does with the Baltic states. Your understanding of the very basic strategy is poor - learn something about history, about how large countries behave, about very basic human psychology. And stop pushing the pointless slaughter - it is mostly Ukies who are dying. Are you proud of that? Then why don't you go yourself? Put a T-shirt on "Willing to die for a Nato base on Azov Sea!!!"...see how that feels.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @LatW

  799. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory?
     
    Nobody. You've rhetorically answered your own question. Ukrainians are fighting and dying to save and sever their country from Russia. Do you finally get it?

    it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for.
     
    No, no, it's the other way around. Ukrainians want to have the opportunity to belong to a strong military alliance that will protect them from further aggression from Russia, like the type that we're seeing today. The right that all the countries that were once a part of Russia's alliances have achieved for themselves, even new countries like Sweden and Finland have recently achieved for themselves. Even the small country that you live in now, Slovakia.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …it’s the other way around

    A bit of chicken-and-egg, so we won’t agree.

    It is indisputable that without Nato expansion to Ukraine there would be no war. No thousands of dead Ukies. That suggest that in this chicken-and-egg dilemma the initial trigger was done by Nato.

    You can spout nonsense about ‘a right to join a military alliance‘ all day long…can Canada form a military alliance with China? Can Mexico with Russia? Can Ireland with Russia? You talk nonsense, that’s not the way it ever works. Nato knew this, they tried to bluff their way in or even intentionally wanted to have a war. Why not? It is the Ukies who are dying.

    Do you know what people who die for others’ interests are called? Do you really think after this is over they will proudly look back and say, “yeah, he died for the right of Nato to have a base in Ochakov” (or Crimea).

    You are totally off, Russia will not lose the war and the dead are not coming back. If it warms up your heart that “Russians are dying, too!” – as it seems to – you are one sick puppy. Schadenfreude is a fleeting and rather stupid emotion – it gives you literally nothing.

    • Agree: Mikhail
  800. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Oh, boy. I just checked and both Donetsk and Lugansk cities have always had a large Russian majorities. The countryside is more mixed, but by any standard the areas are more Russian, or Russian-speaking and leaning than Ukie. They have a lot more in common wit the neighboring Rostov than with Lviv.

    The willingness of coach potatoes like you to cheer on the slaughter of the Ukie conscripts is a big part of the problem. You have no skin in the game, tens of thousands dead are just 'noble sacrifices' for you, 'worth it'...the consequences of this massacre will be with us for years - losing this many men changes societies, Ukies could collapse as a coherent entity - who wants to be a part of a bloody dream?

    They will remember that Nuland or Boris Johnson were nowhere to be seen, they safely egg on the rather stupid Ukies to die from a distance. Now, who does that? Who dies in thousands for the right of others to place bases on their territory? Because that is what this is all about - Nato in Ukie-land right on the Russian border - all else could be and would be solved easily if it wasn't for the Nato expansion, they would find a compromise, autonomy, regional rights....it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for. So cheer that on and know what you are cheering for, don't hide behind empty slogans...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    I just checked and both Donetsk and Lugansk cities have always had a large Russian majorities

    You couldn’t help but lie as usual.

    Donetsk City was 48% Russian and 47% Ukrainian.

    Russians were a majority and for this reason I don’t think the city and its immediate environs should be part of Ukraine, but you couldn’t help yourself and lied about “always has a large majority.”

    The willingness of coach potatoes like you to cheer on the slaughter of the Ukie conscripts is a big part of the problem

    You wouldn’t understand that, given your history of constant servitude to whoever shows up in your country, but Ukrainians choose to fight to prevent invaders from seizing their country. They aren’t doing it because people in the West are cheering them on. It’s very telling that their motive is such a mystery to you.

    They will remember that Nuland or Boris Johnson were nowhere to be seen

    They will be grateful for the help provided. When had independence fighters been angry at those who helped them?

    it is the Nato insane desire to be in Ukraine that thousands of Ukies are dying for

    The liar twists things to say the opposite of reality. Ukraine wants to join NATO because of Russia. If not for Russian aggression Ukraine would not want to join NATO.

    Do you recommend that the Baltic Republics drop their NATO membership? Would you want your Slovakia to do so, if your country wasn’t lucky enough to hide behind Ukraine and if instead Russia came up to your border?

    Russia is not invading Finland as a result of Finland’s choice to join NATO. So this was always an empty excuse. Honest Russians will admit that they simply find it unacceptable for Ukraine to leave Russia, that Russia needs Ukraine in order to be a Great Power, that Ukrainians are Russians therefore that separation is wrong. Russia hoped that after Maidan Ukraine would collapse and try to come back, but instead Ukraine recovered without Russia. This was unacceptable. Something had to be done. NATO, Donbas shelling, language, these were excuses for consumption by low information Russians and dumb western useful idiots.

    • Agree: sudden death
  801. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what.
     
    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than "saving Ukraine from Nazis" that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons? Nazi hunting that always ends up in civilian quarters, where the supposed "nazis" are elderly babushkas and didos who are minding their own business and who just want to get on with the daily chores etc.

    Replies: @AP, @Beckow

    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than “saving Ukraine from Nazis” that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons

    Apparently, some Russians think they are in Ukraine to fight Poles:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    You can find nutcases of all stripes and colors in most all countries spouting off all sorts of nonsense. Beckow would have us believe that the average Russian is convinced that it's to preserve Russia and to stave off NATO expansion "with Nato a few hundred km’s from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up." But as we all know, Russia is not screaming bloody murder in relation to Finland's recent decision to join NATO, a country that is equally close to Russia and shares a huge border too. He's blowing smoke as usual.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Mikhail
    @AP

    With up to 1,000 or more Poles having died on the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR on a messianic pretense.

  802. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Eventually regrets will set in and people will question why are they being killed, for what.
     
    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than "saving Ukraine from Nazis" that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons? Nazi hunting that always ends up in civilian quarters, where the supposed "nazis" are elderly babushkas and didos who are minding their own business and who just want to get on with the daily chores etc.

    Replies: @AP, @Beckow

    You create a straw-man and then giggle about it, how very dumb.

    Russians know what they are fighting for: to preserve their existence as a country. They know fully well that if the Nato adventure in Ukraine succeeds, the future of Russia will be as a threatened, eventually powerless, appendage to the West – with Nato a few hundred km’s from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up.

    As in all countries, I am sure many Russians don’t see it quite that way, they may feel that the war is stupid and that there was no risk. We will never know – but it is entirely predictable that any self-respecting country would not allow itself to be put in a position of weakness, Russia said it was a ‘red line’, Ukies should had listened. Instead they lined up to die in large numbers for Nato.

    US would never allow Mexico or Canada to become an armed, hostile country. Smaller places like Cuba can be tolerated and controlled, as Russia does with the Baltic states. Your understanding of the very basic strategy is poor – learn something about history, about how large countries behave, about very basic human psychology. And stop pushing the pointless slaughter – it is mostly Ukies who are dying. Are you proud of that? Then why don’t you go yourself? Put a T-shirt on “Willing to die for a Nato base on Azov Sea!!!“…see how that feels.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    If you think that I'm "giggling" about this war, then it's you that is seriously "dumb". I've told you before, if you want to communicate with me here, stop ascribing things to me that are clearly a part of some sort of composite fantasy of your deep subconscious ascribed to somebody with an opposing view.

    , @LatW
    @Beckow


    US would never allow Mexico or Canada to become an armed, hostile country
     
    Right, but the dynamic there is a bit different. Canada is part of the Commonwealth so, being technically "more British", Canada is more of a former "Imperial owner" of the US in a way, Canada still has the mounties with their red uniforms, tea ceremonies and the US and Canada did have contested territories near BC. What is crucial is that Canada does not impose that culture on the US anymore.

    In Ukraine's case, Russia is trying to dominate Ukraine in the name of some "imperial" past and based on a bigoted view that Ukrainians are inferior. And what is crazy is that Ukrainians reciprocate that view - they believe that the average Russian is not all that. And, yes, there is a strategic need to do something about the situation - contrary to what you say, I don't believe it's just about NATO, it's about Ukraine being an "anti-Russia" the way they put it. One needs to ask the question, why is that so? Why is Russia disliked by her neighbors so much? At this point, Russia is disliked by many more.

    Russia was in a tough spot actually, because, even though they do have some military dominance due to the geography and the weapons arsenals, their myth making has not resonated with those that they want to impose their influence on. The myth making is directed inwards, but it doesn't work outwards.
    The myth making is also deeply flawed, as it credits the Great Russians with everything that was good (when in fact a lot of the Empire was built by foreigners or by slave labor - many of whom were Ukrainian, in fact).

    The average Russian is not perceived as superior by those outside of Russia (no matter how much their media tells them they are entitled to other people's land, respect or whatever). If they wanted to properly project influence, they should've solved this problem first (by using their resources more rationally - yes, it is much harder than blunt force and it's possible that they felt they no longer had time for that, or maybe just didn't want to bother given the historic stigmas or what not). But they chose the military means (which is partly understandable but it has turned out to be a big gamble). Once you choose military means against Ukraine, there is no way back - you lose Ukrainians (and their friends) forever, even if you try to exterminate 1/4 of them (as was their plan apparently, according to the British intelligence), you alienate everyone, it's a gamble.

    You're also using Finland as an example and you are correct that Finland is smaller, less strategically placed than Ukraine, culturally / religiously different (although even Finland was at one point "interesting enough" to invade). Finland already showed her teeth once so maybe because of that they are now less interesting or urgent as a target. But remember that the fact that Finland is not harassed by Russia to the extent that Ukraine is, is a big factor here. I can guarantee you that if all of a sudden there was a sizable population of Russians in Finland, they'd be up in arms and very concerned. Do remember what went down in Finland in the late 19th century when Alexander II started implementing his Russification policies - the Finns started assassinating Russian officials and soon joined the Reds. This was a deal breaker for them, they immediately wanted to leave the Empire.

    Since the war, they have also become more anti-Russian. It's just that their emotions are more subdued and less visible. All of the Nordic countries have been reviewing their military capacities. None of them like the Russian prodding in the Arctic and none of them are complacent about what's being done to Ukraine.
  803. I suspect that Kaili would not be in jail, if Qatar embraced trannies.

  804. @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than “saving Ukraine from Nazis” that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons
     
    Apparently, some Russians think they are in Ukraine to fight Poles:



    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1602256239064498183?s=46&t=wpyhi3UZ-yzu1veTSN4LEA

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    You can find nutcases of all stripes and colors in most all countries spouting off all sorts of nonsense. Beckow would have us believe that the average Russian is convinced that it’s to preserve Russia and to stave off NATO expansion “with Nato a few hundred km’s from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up.” But as we all know, Russia is not screaming bloody murder in relation to Finland’s recent decision to join NATO, a country that is equally close to Russia and shares a huge border too. He’s blowing smoke as usual.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Finland has 5 million people and a long history of rational behavior. They are just a larger version of the Baltic states. Ukraine is an order of magnitude larger and has a recent history of irrational behavior, almost hysteria.

    If you don't see the difference, nobody can help you. US would also not worry much about Guatemala or Costa-rica, but Mexico or Canada joining a Russia-China military alliance with a Russian base in Newfoundland or Chinese in Veracruz would not be tolerated. It would also mean a war. How are rules different for Russia? Because you don't like them? That has no standing in a rational discourse.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  805. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    but imagine what that guy’s sister must have looked like.
     
    Body hair in females correlates with the level of testosterone. Females with higher testosterone enjoy sex more and therefore vocalize more. Males of all monkeys, including apes, find that attractive. Humans are apes, after all.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Well, I don’t know about you sir but the idea of a nynphomaniac with abundant body hair and a deep voice doesn’t turn me on. And if the lady in question has a dangerous bite, as Songbird correctly pointed out, I would most definitely pass.

    Also, I guess it’s all mediated mainly through testosterone levels but females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men so I suspect some innate sexual selection must have taken place. There doesn’t seem to be any more evolutionary advantage of body hair in males than in females. But you are the expert in biology and genetics.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men
     
    Absolutely correct. This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.
    And there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikel

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    a nynphomaniac with abundant body hair and a deep voice
     
    A human female who enjoys sex a lot is not necessarily a nymphomaniac. In fact, she can be very selective in choosing a partner, or even downright prudish. This won’t prevent her from enjoying sex when things come to that point.

    BTW, vocalization is not an uncontrolled response in humans. Human females use it judiciously. Even chimp females do: they vocalize in the vicinity of a high-ranking male and do not vocalize at all when an aggressive female is nearby.
  806. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    You create a straw-man and then giggle about it, how very dumb.

    Russians know what they are fighting for: to preserve their existence as a country. They know fully well that if the Nato adventure in Ukraine succeeds, the future of Russia will be as a threatened, eventually powerless, appendage to the West - with Nato a few hundred km's from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up.

    As in all countries, I am sure many Russians don't see it quite that way, they may feel that the war is stupid and that there was no risk. We will never know - but it is entirely predictable that any self-respecting country would not allow itself to be put in a position of weakness, Russia said it was a 'red line', Ukies should had listened. Instead they lined up to die in large numbers for Nato.

    US would never allow Mexico or Canada to become an armed, hostile country. Smaller places like Cuba can be tolerated and controlled, as Russia does with the Baltic states. Your understanding of the very basic strategy is poor - learn something about history, about how large countries behave, about very basic human psychology. And stop pushing the pointless slaughter - it is mostly Ukies who are dying. Are you proud of that? Then why don't you go yourself? Put a T-shirt on "Willing to die for a Nato base on Azov Sea!!!"...see how that feels.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @LatW

    If you think that I’m “giggling” about this war, then it’s you that is seriously “dumb”. I’ve told you before, if you want to communicate with me here, stop ascribing things to me that are clearly a part of some sort of composite fantasy of your deep subconscious ascribed to somebody with an opposing view.

  807. @Yevardian
    @Mr. Hack

    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych I realised that the Kremlins had no idea what they were doing.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

    When it came out early that the original Russian plan was to simply replace the decapitated Ukrainian government with the previous one headed by Yanukovych

    I what particular lunatic asylum did this preposterous idea come out?

  808. @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN

    Well, I don't know about you sir but the idea of a nynphomaniac with abundant body hair and a deep voice doesn't turn me on. And if the lady in question has a dangerous bite, as Songbird correctly pointed out, I would most definitely pass.

    Also, I guess it's all mediated mainly through testosterone levels but females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men so I suspect some innate sexual selection must have taken place. There doesn't seem to be any more evolutionary advantage of body hair in males than in females. But you are the expert in biology and genetics.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men

    Absolutely correct. This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.
    And there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex
     
    There was, protection against cold. Hirsuteness originated around Caucus mountains as our ancestors moved up north. Even today the hirsute gene is strongest among males (and females) from that region. It may have lost its original purpose but it persists. May I suggest Gruzins or Armenians for a case study...they approach sasquatch levels of hair, including women. The genes spread from there, a lot of IE ancestry in the east is a mix of mostly steppe men with women from the Caucus region (5-10k years ago).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN


    This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.
     
    Are you sure? My bloodwork shows rather high T levels but I don't have much body hair.

    The North/South cline in Europe wrt body hair is true but sometimes you get very hairy people in the North as well. It's not a firm rule.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  809. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    You can find nutcases of all stripes and colors in most all countries spouting off all sorts of nonsense. Beckow would have us believe that the average Russian is convinced that it's to preserve Russia and to stave off NATO expansion "with Nato a few hundred km’s from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up." But as we all know, Russia is not screaming bloody murder in relation to Finland's recent decision to join NATO, a country that is equally close to Russia and shares a huge border too. He's blowing smoke as usual.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Finland has 5 million people and a long history of rational behavior. They are just a larger version of the Baltic states. Ukraine is an order of magnitude larger and has a recent history of irrational behavior, almost hysteria.

    If you don’t see the difference, nobody can help you. US would also not worry much about Guatemala or Costa-rica, but Mexico or Canada joining a Russia-China military alliance with a Russian base in Newfoundland or Chinese in Veracruz would not be tolerated. It would also mean a war. How are rules different for Russia? Because you don’t like them? That has no standing in a rational discourse.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    It's too bad that Russia is actually the "hysterical" one in today's war and didn't learn much from its encounter with Finland back in 1940. The two wars definitely share some analogies. The smaller one beat back the larger one and Russia ended up with an international black eye as a brutish and militaristic state. Like the Finns before, the Ukrainians will end up with an even greater outcome, being as you put it "an order of magnitude larger" and the recipient of much Western support.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/books/2019/05/03/TELEMMGLPICT000195760572-xlarge_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqe2gUmjRsyy_1k97WQihbV-uGVr62FBJmMRnNXr04hMw.jpeg

    Replies: @Beckow

  810. @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN

    Well, I don't know about you sir but the idea of a nynphomaniac with abundant body hair and a deep voice doesn't turn me on. And if the lady in question has a dangerous bite, as Songbird correctly pointed out, I would most definitely pass.

    Also, I guess it's all mediated mainly through testosterone levels but females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men so I suspect some innate sexual selection must have taken place. There doesn't seem to be any more evolutionary advantage of body hair in males than in females. But you are the expert in biology and genetics.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    a nynphomaniac with abundant body hair and a deep voice

    A human female who enjoys sex a lot is not necessarily a nymphomaniac. In fact, she can be very selective in choosing a partner, or even downright prudish. This won’t prevent her from enjoying sex when things come to that point.

    BTW, vocalization is not an uncontrolled response in humans. Human females use it judiciously. Even chimp females do: they vocalize in the vicinity of a high-ranking male and do not vocalize at all when an aggressive female is nearby.

  811. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men
     
    Absolutely correct. This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.
    And there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikel

    …there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex

    There was, protection against cold. Hirsuteness originated around Caucus mountains as our ancestors moved up north. Even today the hirsute gene is strongest among males (and females) from that region. It may have lost its original purpose but it persists. May I suggest Gruzins or Armenians for a case study…they approach sasquatch levels of hair, including women. The genes spread from there, a lot of IE ancestry in the east is a mix of mostly steppe men with women from the Caucus region (5-10k years ago).

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    …there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex
    There was, protection against cold.
     
    Did not study this seriously. It’s not my field, anyway.

    IMO some evidence suggests that it’s not. One, Southern Europeans tend to be a lot more hirsute than Northern Europeans. In fact, blond Northern Europeans are arguably the least hairy humans. They lost skin pigmentation genes to make more vitamin D under weak sun, so evolution clearly worked there. Two, even young Indian females often have more prominent sideburns and whiskers than other human females (did not investigate the rest of their body hair, so cannot tell). They come from subtropics and tropics.

    It would be good if someone qualified investigated this issue systematically. That won’t be me, though.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Beckow

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_man

    Interestingly, "the wild man" is mainly present in the folklore of the Germanic Europe, which would suggest that Alps were another isolated region (isolated from Aryan invasion) where remnants of hirsute people (Neanderthals progeny?) survived... There are many of them during carnevale in South Germany and German Switzerland.

    https://www.badische-zeitung.de/fotos-strassenfasnet-im-elztal--26984169.html?page=2

    They made movie about one of them, Oetzi.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceman_(2017_film)

    He worshipped only a female goddess (so he was likely from matrilineal culture), whose name, Tineka, reminded me about the chef Punic goddess - Tanit. For some occult reason, the movie apparently wanted to make a point that Great Goddess followers were not just around Mediterranean but sitting in Alps too.

  812. @Beckow
    @songbird


    ...skull... its massive size is a adaptation to retain heat.
     
    It was probably a slow process that optimized less need for jerky mobility that is typical of Africans and other humans from warmer climates against cold weather where small skulls are less survivable.

    The nastiness of our ancestors against each other had a positive evolutionary side. Other species don't practise aggression within their own group or do it in narrow predefined or playful confines. We humans have developed an aggressive within species behaviors and that has helped dramatically with our evolution. Humans fought constantly within their small groups, they had to watch out for back-stabbing, attacks, etc...

    Humans for some reason turned their aggressiveness inward. Maybe it was triggered by an early awareness of rank and how it impacted access to resources. There is also an unusual evenness among humans - most young males are comparable in strength and ability and that leads to willingness to fight. It creates a more even playing field for man-woman pair-ups - and by early this century we have perfected pair-ups and optimized them for both success and quality. Then in the last few years the collapse of the Western culture has messed it up.

    The catastrophic state of man-woman bonding is at the core of other problems - it has devalued work, family, now even gender. The attempts to salvage the loser bottom 10-20% and include them (the sentimental liberal inclusiveness) are mainly to blame. But instead of 10-20% falling by the wayside we get a lot more...a typical result of trying to help, a charitable impulse on a societal level is the most dangerous thing...it destroys everything over time.

    Replies: @songbird

    Other species don’t practise aggression within their own group or do it in narrow predefined or playful confines.

    I watched a few clips recently of wolverines interacting with other predators. What really struck me was how they seemed to test each other and then back off. One clip was a case of wild dogs surrounding a wolverine, but they eventually backed off, after it charged different individuals. Can’t imagine a gang of hoods doing that, just because their prey showed a little moxy. Maybe, that is because people can get reinforcements.

    The catastrophic state of man-woman bonding is at the core of other problems – it has devalued work, family, now even gender.

    Minimum conditions for sustainable governance must be to write out single women from having any say in politics. Probably more complicated than that, but I don’t see how it could be done without doing that.

  813. @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex
     
    There was, protection against cold. Hirsuteness originated around Caucus mountains as our ancestors moved up north. Even today the hirsute gene is strongest among males (and females) from that region. It may have lost its original purpose but it persists. May I suggest Gruzins or Armenians for a case study...they approach sasquatch levels of hair, including women. The genes spread from there, a lot of IE ancestry in the east is a mix of mostly steppe men with women from the Caucus region (5-10k years ago).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Another Polish Perspective

    …there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex
    There was, protection against cold.

    Did not study this seriously. It’s not my field, anyway.

    IMO some evidence suggests that it’s not. One, Southern Europeans tend to be a lot more hirsute than Northern Europeans. In fact, blond Northern Europeans are arguably the least hairy humans. They lost skin pigmentation genes to make more vitamin D under weak sun, so evolution clearly worked there. Two, even young Indian females often have more prominent sideburns and whiskers than other human females (did not investigate the rest of their body hair, so cannot tell). They come from subtropics and tropics.

    It would be good if someone qualified investigated this issue systematically. That won’t be me, though.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AnonfromTN

    Sorry, should have been “mustaches”, not “whiskers”.

  814. @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex
     
    There was, protection against cold. Hirsuteness originated around Caucus mountains as our ancestors moved up north. Even today the hirsute gene is strongest among males (and females) from that region. It may have lost its original purpose but it persists. May I suggest Gruzins or Armenians for a case study...they approach sasquatch levels of hair, including women. The genes spread from there, a lot of IE ancestry in the east is a mix of mostly steppe men with women from the Caucus region (5-10k years ago).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Another Polish Perspective

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_man

    Interestingly, “the wild man” is mainly present in the folklore of the Germanic Europe, which would suggest that Alps were another isolated region (isolated from Aryan invasion) where remnants of hirsute people (Neanderthals progeny?) survived… There are many of them during carnevale in South Germany and German Switzerland.

    https://www.badische-zeitung.de/fotos-strassenfasnet-im-elztal--26984169.html?page=2

    They made movie about one of them, Oetzi.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceman_(2017_film)

    He worshipped only a female goddess (so he was likely from matrilineal culture), whose name, Tineka, reminded me about the chef Punic goddess – Tanit. For some occult reason, the movie apparently wanted to make a point that Great Goddess followers were not just around Mediterranean but sitting in Alps too.

  815. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    …there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex
    There was, protection against cold.
     
    Did not study this seriously. It’s not my field, anyway.

    IMO some evidence suggests that it’s not. One, Southern Europeans tend to be a lot more hirsute than Northern Europeans. In fact, blond Northern Europeans are arguably the least hairy humans. They lost skin pigmentation genes to make more vitamin D under weak sun, so evolution clearly worked there. Two, even young Indian females often have more prominent sideburns and whiskers than other human females (did not investigate the rest of their body hair, so cannot tell). They come from subtropics and tropics.

    It would be good if someone qualified investigated this issue systematically. That won’t be me, though.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Sorry, should have been “mustaches”, not “whiskers”.

  816. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Finland has 5 million people and a long history of rational behavior. They are just a larger version of the Baltic states. Ukraine is an order of magnitude larger and has a recent history of irrational behavior, almost hysteria.

    If you don't see the difference, nobody can help you. US would also not worry much about Guatemala or Costa-rica, but Mexico or Canada joining a Russia-China military alliance with a Russian base in Newfoundland or Chinese in Veracruz would not be tolerated. It would also mean a war. How are rules different for Russia? Because you don't like them? That has no standing in a rational discourse.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    It’s too bad that Russia is actually the “hysterical” one in today’s war and didn’t learn much from its encounter with Finland back in 1940. The two wars definitely share some analogies. The smaller one beat back the larger one and Russia ended up with an international black eye as a brutish and militaristic state. Like the Finns before, the Ukrainians will end up with an even greater outcome, being as you put it “an order of magnitude larger” and the recipient of much Western support.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg... I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the "wins" of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Russia is winning in Ukraine and there are almost no scenarios under which it would end up losing. You also ignored my main point about Nato expansion and how would a similar expansion be treated by US. You have no answer, it is a check-mate - don't try the "US is special, we are different" nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN, @Yevardian, @Mr. Hack

  817. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    It's too bad that Russia is actually the "hysterical" one in today's war and didn't learn much from its encounter with Finland back in 1940. The two wars definitely share some analogies. The smaller one beat back the larger one and Russia ended up with an international black eye as a brutish and militaristic state. Like the Finns before, the Ukrainians will end up with an even greater outcome, being as you put it "an order of magnitude larger" and the recipient of much Western support.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/books/2019/05/03/TELEMMGLPICT000195760572-xlarge_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqe2gUmjRsyy_1k97WQihbV-uGVr62FBJmMRnNXr04hMw.jpeg

    Replies: @Beckow

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg… I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the “wins” of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Russia is winning in Ukraine and there are almost no scenarios under which it would end up losing. You also ignored my main point about Nato expansion and how would a similar expansion be treated by US. You have no answer, it is a check-mate – don’t try the “US is special, we are different” nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    the “US is special, we are different” nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.
     
    This kindergarten-level mentality dominates the US politics. Just recall statements about “indispensable” and “exceptional” nation. BTW, the same kind of talk from Hitler was called Nazism by the US. The pot calling the kettle black.
    , @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow

    “Winning” Ukies in recent days blew up both railway bridges near Artemosk (which they call Bahmut, LOL). Apparently, they are preparing to “win” the hell out of the city.

    Replies: @AP, @Jazman

    , @Yevardian
    @Beckow


    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg… I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the “wins” of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.
     
    Yes, people do forget that the Winter War did eventuate in a Russian victory, although Stalin settled for far less than they he had originally planned for. But at the same time, poor Russian performance in that war was likely a decisive factor in Germany forwarding its date for its war with the USSR, perhaps by years, which would have radically altered the course of WWII.

    But I'm no WWII buff and that's mostly just speculation on my part. But in the same manner, anything short of an overwhelming Russian victory in Ukraine (now extremely unlikely) will leave Russia's credibility severely weakened in the future.
    Although Ukraine also seems far less likely to acquiese to any permanent loss of territory than Finland was, probably to its own long-term strategic detriment.

    Replies: @Sean, @Beckow

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Russia wasn't able to subdue Kyiv, Kharkiv (only 30 miles from its own border) and wasn't able to hold Kherson. This is what you call winning in Ukraine? Ukraine is now bombing strategic points within Russia and Crimea...how many months has it been fighting to take Bakhmut now?

    Replies: @AP, @Beckow

  818. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg... I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the "wins" of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Russia is winning in Ukraine and there are almost no scenarios under which it would end up losing. You also ignored my main point about Nato expansion and how would a similar expansion be treated by US. You have no answer, it is a check-mate - don't try the "US is special, we are different" nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN, @Yevardian, @Mr. Hack

    the “US is special, we are different” nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    This kindergarten-level mentality dominates the US politics. Just recall statements about “indispensable” and “exceptional” nation. BTW, the same kind of talk from Hitler was called Nazism by the US. The pot calling the kettle black.

  819. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg... I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the "wins" of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Russia is winning in Ukraine and there are almost no scenarios under which it would end up losing. You also ignored my main point about Nato expansion and how would a similar expansion be treated by US. You have no answer, it is a check-mate - don't try the "US is special, we are different" nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN, @Yevardian, @Mr. Hack

    “Winning” Ukies in recent days blew up both railway bridges near Artemosk (which they call Bahmut, LOL). Apparently, they are preparing to “win” the hell out of the city.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Artemovsk was the Soviet name for the city, the Bolsheviks renamed it in 1924. As such, it is like Leningrad or Sverdlovsk. A Sovok abomination.

    Bakhmut was the original pre-Soviet name.

    Here is a historical map:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Historical_map_of_Bakhmut_in_Ukraine_%28cropped%29.jpg

    Naturally a Donbasser prefers the Soviet name.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) . I would like to see Russia give some recognition Serbian settlers , they have not been mention much in history books , but played big role in that turbulent period . For hundreds of years, Imperial Russia was at war with the Turks, the Tatars who invaded from below from the Crimea. A huge empty space remained between Crimea and central Russia. It was a steppe that was used for cutting armies. In that steppe, Peter the Great began to settle Serbs. Serbs came from Krajina ( Balkan) . I like to joke Ukraine is more Serbian then Uki's Ukraine

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

  820. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    You create a straw-man and then giggle about it, how very dumb.

    Russians know what they are fighting for: to preserve their existence as a country. They know fully well that if the Nato adventure in Ukraine succeeds, the future of Russia will be as a threatened, eventually powerless, appendage to the West - with Nato a few hundred km's from Moscow on a 1,000 km border, with bases on Black Sea, the military position of Russia would be unsustainable. At some point of weakness in the future, Nato would roll them up.

    As in all countries, I am sure many Russians don't see it quite that way, they may feel that the war is stupid and that there was no risk. We will never know - but it is entirely predictable that any self-respecting country would not allow itself to be put in a position of weakness, Russia said it was a 'red line', Ukies should had listened. Instead they lined up to die in large numbers for Nato.

    US would never allow Mexico or Canada to become an armed, hostile country. Smaller places like Cuba can be tolerated and controlled, as Russia does with the Baltic states. Your understanding of the very basic strategy is poor - learn something about history, about how large countries behave, about very basic human psychology. And stop pushing the pointless slaughter - it is mostly Ukies who are dying. Are you proud of that? Then why don't you go yourself? Put a T-shirt on "Willing to die for a Nato base on Azov Sea!!!"...see how that feels.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @LatW

    US would never allow Mexico or Canada to become an armed, hostile country

    Right, but the dynamic there is a bit different. Canada is part of the Commonwealth so, being technically “more British”, Canada is more of a former “Imperial owner” of the US in a way, Canada still has the mounties with their red uniforms, tea ceremonies and the US and Canada did have contested territories near BC. What is crucial is that Canada does not impose that culture on the US anymore.

    [MORE]

    In Ukraine’s case, Russia is trying to dominate Ukraine in the name of some “imperial” past and based on a bigoted view that Ukrainians are inferior. And what is crazy is that Ukrainians reciprocate that view – they believe that the average Russian is not all that. And, yes, there is a strategic need to do something about the situation – contrary to what you say, I don’t believe it’s just about NATO, it’s about Ukraine being an “anti-Russia” the way they put it. One needs to ask the question, why is that so? Why is Russia disliked by her neighbors so much? At this point, Russia is disliked by many more.

    Russia was in a tough spot actually, because, even though they do have some military dominance due to the geography and the weapons arsenals, their myth making has not resonated with those that they want to impose their influence on. The myth making is directed inwards, but it doesn’t work outwards.
    The myth making is also deeply flawed, as it credits the Great Russians with everything that was good (when in fact a lot of the Empire was built by foreigners or by slave labor – many of whom were Ukrainian, in fact).

    The average Russian is not perceived as superior by those outside of Russia (no matter how much their media tells them they are entitled to other people’s land, respect or whatever). If they wanted to properly project influence, they should’ve solved this problem first (by using their resources more rationally – yes, it is much harder than blunt force and it’s possible that they felt they no longer had time for that, or maybe just didn’t want to bother given the historic stigmas or what not). But they chose the military means (which is partly understandable but it has turned out to be a big gamble). Once you choose military means against Ukraine, there is no way back – you lose Ukrainians (and their friends) forever, even if you try to exterminate 1/4 of them (as was their plan apparently, according to the British intelligence), you alienate everyone, it’s a gamble.

    You’re also using Finland as an example and you are correct that Finland is smaller, less strategically placed than Ukraine, culturally / religiously different (although even Finland was at one point “interesting enough” to invade). Finland already showed her teeth once so maybe because of that they are now less interesting or urgent as a target. But remember that the fact that Finland is not harassed by Russia to the extent that Ukraine is, is a big factor here. I can guarantee you that if all of a sudden there was a sizable population of Russians in Finland, they’d be up in arms and very concerned. Do remember what went down in Finland in the late 19th century when Alexander II started implementing his Russification policies – the Finns started assassinating Russian officials and soon joined the Reds. This was a deal breaker for them, they immediately wanted to leave the Empire.

    Since the war, they have also become more anti-Russian. It’s just that their emotions are more subdued and less visible. All of the Nordic countries have been reviewing their military capacities. None of them like the Russian prodding in the Arctic and none of them are complacent about what’s being done to Ukraine.

    • LOL: Sher Singh
  821. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow

    “Winning” Ukies in recent days blew up both railway bridges near Artemosk (which they call Bahmut, LOL). Apparently, they are preparing to “win” the hell out of the city.

    Replies: @AP, @Jazman

    Artemovsk was the Soviet name for the city, the Bolsheviks renamed it in 1924. As such, it is like Leningrad or Sverdlovsk. A Sovok abomination.

    Bakhmut was the original pre-Soviet name.

    Here is a historical map:

    Naturally a Donbasser prefers the Soviet name.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    Naturally a Donbasser prefers the Soviet name.
     
    The real problem for Ukraine is not what name any Donbasser prefers. It is that >95% of Donbass population wants Ukies either out of Donbass for good, or dead fertilizing Donbass soil. The probability of Donbass remaining in Ukraine (even reformatted one, with Banderites hanging, as they amply deserve) is zero.
  822. In Bakhmut, the stress is on the second syllable, by the way.

    Bakhmut holds. Even though it’s dramatic there.

  823. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Artemovsk was the Soviet name for the city, the Bolsheviks renamed it in 1924. As such, it is like Leningrad or Sverdlovsk. A Sovok abomination.

    Bakhmut was the original pre-Soviet name.

    Here is a historical map:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Historical_map_of_Bakhmut_in_Ukraine_%28cropped%29.jpg

    Naturally a Donbasser prefers the Soviet name.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Naturally a Donbasser prefers the Soviet name.

    The real problem for Ukraine is not what name any Donbasser prefers. It is that >95% of Donbass population wants Ukies either out of Donbass for good, or dead fertilizing Donbass soil. The probability of Donbass remaining in Ukraine (even reformatted one, with Banderites hanging, as they amply deserve) is zero.

  824. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    females of all races today exhibit much less body hair than men
     
    Absolutely correct. This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.
    And there is no evolutionary advantage of body hair for humans of either sex.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mikel

    This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.

    Are you sure? My bloodwork shows rather high T levels but I don’t have much body hair.

    The North/South cline in Europe wrt body hair is true but sometimes you get very hairy people in the North as well. It’s not a firm rule.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    Are you sure? My bloodwork shows rather high T levels but I don’t have much body hair.
     
    You are raising an important point: testosterone is a signal, but another factor that determines the result is your responsiveness. Simple analogy: the noise might be loud, but if you are deaf, you won’t hear it. I was talking about averages, but averages do not predict individual parameters.
  825. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    reconstruction of this ‘original religion’ involves
     
    Jesus was using "oral teaching", so it might be possible to say you need to "reconstruct" his teaching like in Socrates, as there are only books written after he dies, nothing is there which he wrote directly.

    But Mark is written around time of the destruction of the Second Temple epoch (60-70) and the last canonized text will be written 110 AD as the highest estimate.

    So, for the belief of the new religion (or sect) between around 60 AD to 110 AD at latest, we know the self-reported views directly. There is not need for "reconstruction", unless you believe the New Testament is not representing the views of the sect or emerging religion (like if there was secret teaching they do not include openly in their publication).

    Religion of the first century viewed Mary as one of the more not important people. Unless you would view the canonized books as complete misrepresentation of views of the sect (or developing religion) while Jesus was teaching, which is around 25(?)-33 AD, then we would extend this to from around 25(?)-110 AD.

    If canonized books were complete misrepresentation of views in lifetime of Jesus, then we have to say it is a blackbox. Even then, as we would not know views of lifetime of Jesus, then we would be able to talk about the openly reported views of around 60 AD to 110 AD, which we know directly.


    why the vague approach to beliefs about mother goddesses and Christian female figures like Mary who might be described as god-like, but concentration on trying to reconstruct the beliefs of the historical Jesus?
     
    In the first century (also the second century, but this is less interesting), elevation of Mary is not part of the new religion. At least we know this, not to the extent we can exclude square-circles, but perhaps almost to extent we know things like "Paris is the capital of France", or "Germany invaded Poland in 1939".

    As we know Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, but the question "why Germany invaded Poland", would include speculation for the motives, at least perhaps for amateurs.

    What is the motivation they added the worship of Mary, or elevation of Mary, to the religion in the later centuries? I'm not sure, but would perhaps speculate it is not only logical derivation from the question "why would god choose her" i.e. that he would choose a holy woman.

    There is the theological argument, of why would this woman is selected. Perhaps the theological argument is an important motive. By the 5th century, Mary has become is already central theological debate, with Nestorius exiled because of argument about her status.

    But there is also possible speculation about the more common sense motive, this addition matches popular and common views of the new cultures the religion spreads (i.e. historical "mother gods" of the people who are joining the religion) and how it is extremely popular part of religion even today.

    This argument is supported by cost of adding the new part to the religion, as it creates contradiction with emphasis of New Testament and also possibly contradiction with important teaching like Mark 3:20-35.

    As we know in the later centuries, there are arguments about addition, which is probably inevitable from the design perspective, as you can add a new balcony to your house, but someone would complain if it is not part of the original design and not be supported by foundations. On the other hand, there is no doubt, that our new balcony was one of the most popular parts of the house and continues as this today.


    this your view on all the material in the NT related to the incarnation and Jesus as God the Son? Because the Marian veneration is fairly directly derived from theological material of this kind in the NT

     

    Jesus is the most important person in the New Testament, with miracles, sometimes human, but also sometimes has properties similar to a demigod.

    So, when later theology was written about incarnation, it can be something which first century people did not believe. But theological derivation can be still mainly consistent with a lot of New Testament (although of course, not perfectly) and belief of its writers.

    Elevating Mary is different and more of a problem, as the writers of New Testament do not view her as important and also Jesus does not view her as important (according to those writers), including in the direct reference where Jesus teaches his brother and mother are not his real family.


    Mark contains on familial, even tribal relations, and on the significant topic of Jesus’ relations with his father, which go in the other direction t
     
    New Testament (which is at least representing views in 60-110 AD) has quite a voluntarist morality, where they say hundreds of times that the individuals' choice is the determination of their fate, not their collective origin, This is also often in the teaching of Jesus. It is closer to Socrates, than some of the Iron age stories of the Old Testament.

    But you can see there are sometimes parts of this modern New Testament which remember more of Iron Age views. So, in gospels Matthew/ Luke https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A20-23&version=ASV Jesus is angry with the cities on lake Galilee, in particular where he was teaching in the beautiful city of Capernaum.

    Statistically, if you assume a property of "holy people", there would be mix of "holy people" and "less holy", in Capernaum, as any characteristic will usually be larger within group than between group. But here all the tribe there is going to Hades because Jesus was unpopular in the city. Ancient Judaism was already significantly individualist and voluntarist in a lot of the Second Temple times, but there is with this story the connection to the older texts of Genesis.

    So you can see occassionally a little of the older mood there. There is sense of the mood after the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD).


    he seemed to be explaining it using methods of comparative religion and some psychology of religion and I am pretty sure he is not a Protestant.
     
    Protestant or Catholic can walk over bridge. Perhaps Catholic believes it is a holy bridge, Protestant believes it is not a holy bridge. They can argue about whether it is a holy bridge or not. But the bridge is also originally something in the real world, not only subjective views about it (although of course these views will also be causally explained, related to their Skinner box conditioning, or on a lower level e.g. release of dopamine, when near this bridge the Catholic will feel warm emotions, the Protestant will not). For the engineer who builds the bridge, will have been thinking about the objective world, not so much the emotional attachment. This world is the same for both Protestants and Catholics, or wouldn't vary with religion.

    Arguments between Protestants and Catholics are interesting historical information, or in emotional view of the understanding of the views of the second millennium.

    If you were historian of the Modern and Early Modern European epoch, arguments of Protestants and Catholics would be interesting as have causal effects in those particular centuries.

    But, for us, who are not working as Protestant or Catholic theologians, the more interesting question can be whether this speculation is accurate or not accurate description of what actually happened with these events from the 3rd century. This is what happened in the real world. I'm not sure the theologians justification for why Mary is elevated would be the complete explanation.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Jesus was using “oral teaching”, so it might be possible to say you need to “reconstruct” his teaching like in Socrates, as there are only books written after he dies, nothing is there which he wrote directly.

    Scholars have attempted to do this, there was a project called ‘The Jesus Seminar’. They came up with an estimate of about 20% of Jesus’ speech recorded in the Gospels as being from the historical Jesus.

    Unless you would view the canonized books as complete misrepresentation of views of the sect (or developing religion) while Jesus was teaching, which is around 25(?)-33 AD, then we would extend this to from around 25(?)-110 AD

    I have a somewhat old textbook (2003) that summarises the views of secular academic historians about the historical Jesus and his teachings. The dominant views explained there say that it is probable that Jesus was a Jewish preacher (some argument about how apocalyptic his teaching was) who did not believe that he was the messiah, son of God and so on, did not rise from the dead, was not especially universalist; and that much of the core content of Christianity as a religion was added after his death.

    This would indicate there is scope for disagreement about what the beliefs of Jesus and his immediate followers and the various people who compiled the Gospels were.

    These arguments would also suggest that much of the core content of Christianity as a religion came from people other than Jesus, including possibly pagan sources.

    So, when later theology was written about incarnation, it can be something which first century people did not believe. 

    This is the argument of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Socinians iirc.

    In the first century (also the second century, but this is less interesting), elevation of Mary is not part of the new religion.

    The NT only seems to have a limited amount of information about devotional practices or about how all the different parts of it were interpreted by followers. The tendency to use typology related to the OT is clearly present in it all over the place though, which must have informed later Christian approaches.

    There is the theological argument, of why would this woman is selected. Perhaps the theological argument is an important motive.

    The basis of Marian veneration comes from Luke, the Magnificat and the fiat (these must be some of the better known passages about Mary in the NT?). This was connected with the content of John about Jesus as God the Son and Paul’s teachings on original sin and Adam. They are also linked with the universalist message of the salvation of humanity and Paul’s evocation of the cosmic Christ. The basis and theological content of most of it is present in the NT. Iirc the details about Mary’s death would be the main later addition from tradition.

    [MORE]

    For example; I was thinking about one of the most important everyday Marian devotions of the Catholic Church, the ‘Hail Mary’. Most of this prayer is quotation from Luke’s Gospel (the words of the angel’s greeting combined with the exclamation of Elizabeth in Luke 1:26-52) combined with the idea from John’s Gospel of Jesus as God the Son.

    New Testament (which is at least representing views in 60-110 AD) has quite a voluntarist morality, where they say hundreds of times that the individuals choice is the determination of their fate, not their collective origin

    We were discussing the importance of familial relationships in relation to beliefs about Mary, so yes, in one way voluntarism is clear, e.g. Jesus has apparently chosen to freely submit to obedience to his father to the point of death. As Mary choses to become his mother. Imo though, the whole thing about the birth of God’s son in Israel leading to the salvation of the world is suggestive of the significance of familial themes in the NT.

    For the engineer who builds the bridge, will have been thinking about the objective world, not so much the emotional attachment. 

    Engineers seem to have various advantages over academic scholars in the humanities and the social sciences in their pursuit of knowledge of the objective world, given the specific and focused aspects of it they are interested in and the methods and sources of data they are able to use.

    I think there is more scope for discussion and emotional influences to come into play in relation to certain kinds of knowledge generated by the humanities (and truth about a major religion involves the confluence of multiple fields of scholarship). A good example is the question of miraculous events or divinely inspired teachers, all the major world religions are open to these things influencing or existing in reality, whereas secular academia has to put them to one side.

    Arguments between Protestants and Catholics are interesting historical information, or in emotional view of the understanding of the views of the second millennium.

    Probably beyond that, a recent example by a historian who has been drawing attention to this topic:

    https://unherd.com/2022/11/humanism-is-a-heresy/

    • Thanks: AP
  826. @AP
    @Mr. Hack


    Well, dying for your own country, to chase away unwanted intruders must sound a lot better than “saving Ukraine from Nazis” that Russian mothers are told when they ask similar questions while burying their own sons
     
    Apparently, some Russians think they are in Ukraine to fight Poles:



    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1602256239064498183?s=46&t=wpyhi3UZ-yzu1veTSN4LEA

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mikhail

    With up to 1,000 or more Poles having died on the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR on a messianic pretense.

  827. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow

    “Winning” Ukies in recent days blew up both railway bridges near Artemosk (which they call Bahmut, LOL). Apparently, they are preparing to “win” the hell out of the city.

    Replies: @AP, @Jazman

    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) . I would like to see Russia give some recognition Serbian settlers , they have not been mention much in history books , but played big role in that turbulent period . For hundreds of years, Imperial Russia was at war with the Turks, the Tatars who invaded from below from the Crimea. A huge empty space remained between Crimea and central Russia. It was a steppe that was used for cutting armies. In that steppe, Peter the Great began to settle Serbs. Serbs came from Krajina ( Balkan) . I like to joke Ukraine is more Serbian then Uki’s Ukraine

    • Thanks: AnonfromTN
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Jazman

    You aren't Odyssey, this pan-serbian commentator, are you...?

    Replies: @Jazman

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Jazman


    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) .
     
    Thanks for the info! I did not know that. I only knew in general that Donbass was settled by people of many nationalities. Maybe that’s why it so violently rejected cavemen-level nationalism of Ukies.

    Replies: @Jazman

  828. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg... I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the "wins" of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Russia is winning in Ukraine and there are almost no scenarios under which it would end up losing. You also ignored my main point about Nato expansion and how would a similar expansion be treated by US. You have no answer, it is a check-mate - don't try the "US is special, we are different" nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN, @Yevardian, @Mr. Hack

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg… I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the “wins” of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Yes, people do forget that the Winter War did eventuate in a Russian victory, although Stalin settled for far less than they he had originally planned for. But at the same time, poor Russian performance in that war was likely a decisive factor in Germany forwarding its date for its war with the USSR, perhaps by years, which would have radically altered the course of WWII.

    But I’m no WWII buff and that’s mostly just speculation on my part. But in the same manner, anything short of an overwhelming Russian victory in Ukraine (now extremely unlikely) will leave Russia’s credibility severely weakened in the future.
    Although Ukraine also seems far less likely to acquiese to any permanent loss of territory than Finland was, probably to its own long-term strategic detriment.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Yevardian

    Russia's thermonuclear credibility would be affected by them accepting a conventional defeat in Ukraine.

    , @Beckow
    @Yevardian

    Settling for less than planned (dreamed off?) is the way almost all wars end. Did Nato settle for less in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, even Serbia? Was their credibility weakened? Certainly.

    The world of war is a complicated place and it never goes as planned. The bellyaching about "but Russia didn't flatten Ukraine in 48 hrs" is besides the point. Ukies are losing - both territory, manpower and in political dreams. I don't see how they can reverse it. Win is a win, no matter how the West spins it, Russia is substantially better off today than a year ago.

    Finland lost, and they became permanently smaller - the lost Finnish men were a substantially large % than among the Russians. It left trauma, talk to Finns about it, and nobody in Russia even remembers it. But the morons in the West like Mr. Hacks who are only told 20% of the story think they are smart by mentioning "Finland"....it is actually quite sad how uneducated and stupid they are. This will not end well for them.

  829. But at the same time, poor Russian performance in that war was likely a decisive factor in Germany forwarding its date for its war with the USSR, perhaps by years, which would have radically altered the course of WWII.

    Hitler always thought his life would not be a long one.

    Ukraine also seems far less likely to acquiese to any permanent loss of territory than Finland was, probably to its own long-term strategic detriment.

    Britain and France were about to send an expeditionary force to fight Russia in Finland when war with Germany broke out.

    Russia has strategic space.

  830. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) . I would like to see Russia give some recognition Serbian settlers , they have not been mention much in history books , but played big role in that turbulent period . For hundreds of years, Imperial Russia was at war with the Turks, the Tatars who invaded from below from the Crimea. A huge empty space remained between Crimea and central Russia. It was a steppe that was used for cutting armies. In that steppe, Peter the Great began to settle Serbs. Serbs came from Krajina ( Balkan) . I like to joke Ukraine is more Serbian then Uki's Ukraine

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

    You aren’t Odyssey, this pan-serbian commentator, are you…?

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @Another Polish Perspective

    No I am not

  831. @Yevardian
    @Beckow


    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg… I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the “wins” of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.
     
    Yes, people do forget that the Winter War did eventuate in a Russian victory, although Stalin settled for far less than they he had originally planned for. But at the same time, poor Russian performance in that war was likely a decisive factor in Germany forwarding its date for its war with the USSR, perhaps by years, which would have radically altered the course of WWII.

    But I'm no WWII buff and that's mostly just speculation on my part. But in the same manner, anything short of an overwhelming Russian victory in Ukraine (now extremely unlikely) will leave Russia's credibility severely weakened in the future.
    Although Ukraine also seems far less likely to acquiese to any permanent loss of territory than Finland was, probably to its own long-term strategic detriment.

    Replies: @Sean, @Beckow

    Russia’s thermonuclear credibility would be affected by them accepting a conventional defeat in Ukraine.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
  832. @Yevardian
    @AnonfromTN


    In the NT I like the Gospels. I know that there are many apocryphal Gospels, which were separated from canonical four in the fourth century, i.e., when even the grandchildren of those who might have been an eyewitness were long dead. But even the remaining four are interesting, as they bear the stamp of the personalities of the writers. You can tell that at least one was written by a snarling close-minded fanatic and at least two by kindly intelligent people.
     
    I thinking... usually the non-synoptic John is considered the 'mystical' one, but off-hand I don't recall any of the gospel authors coming as a fanatical and close minded, though Paul frequently does in his letters.
    If I remember right, both Luke and Matthew drew upon a lost source 'Q', both postdating Mark by a few years. And Luke had quite good Greek, whilst Matthew and Mark clearly show the influence of their native Aramaic in some odd syntax and even some sloppy grammar in Mark's case.

    The NT apocrypha has curiosity value sure, but people get an over inflated idea of the importance of the apocryphal from sensationalist reporting. There's very little evidence that any of them were every widely accepted ('The Shepherd' except, though its content is very conventional anyway), the gnostic gospels were certainly always marginal. Others were simply never widely disseminated because of the banal reason they were of poor literary quality (gospels of Jesus' childhood and the like).
    Probably the most radical and widespread early Christian movement, Marcionism, was notable mostly for rejection of the entire OT.

    While reading the Gospels I really appreciated what Jesus said in Bulgakov’s “The Master and Margarita” about writings of an apostle: “I looked through his notes and discovered that I never said anything he wrote down”.
     
    For some reason I could never get into Bulgakov. I liked his 'Doctor's Notes' and 'White Guard' much better than 'Master', although perhaps that's simply due to the stressed circumstances in which I read the last one. Only truly Soviet author I've really taken a shine to is Dovlatov and his (semi-fictionalised?) autobiographical trashy escapades.
    The greatest Russian authors of the 20th Century to me would be Nabokov, Bunin and Bely.

    @Yahya

    I do intend to visit a classical concert, as I have not been to one before. Already found some events in beautiful French churches like Église de la Madeleine and Saint Germain des Pres. They will be playing Bach, Ravel and Mozart. I was surprised by how cheap the tickets are, generally from 20-60 euros. Somehow I had imagined they would be more expensive given the class background of classical music listeners. This will likely be the highlight of my trip, though none of my friends will agree to go, so I will be there alone.
     
    Classical concernts were a pretty regular event for us since my father plays in an orchestra. You'll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Dmitry, @Yahya

    You’ll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.

    So I went to a classical concert a couple of nights ago in L’église de la Madeleine; and what you told me checks out. The median age of the audience must have been somewhere in the 50s, which tracks with France’s age pyramid. Young adults were far and few between, and the one’s there were mostly with their parents. I was probably the youngest person in the cathedral. There were also these three well-dressed Chinese girls who looked 30-ish, though without their parents which was impressive. Other than a smattering of a few POC, the audience was a sea of middle-aged and elderly Europeans/Westerners. I thought they would mostly be native French, but upon being seated I heard a couple of Aussies, one of whom was a beautiful dark-haired 40-ish woman, behind me chatting with a Scandinavian-looking fellow in English. They were talking about the church architecture, and the Scandi assumed they had been to “Wren’s cathedral” in London, but the Aussies told him they had only seen it from the outside. Also I heard a few American accents here and there. But other than that I guesstimate the place must have been 80% native French, 19.8% non-French whites, and 0.2% POC.

    I had expected beforehand to be one of the rare non-Europeans in the Madeleine so I made an extra effort to blend in so that people don’t think I’m a terrorist coming to bomb the cathedral lol. Typically when Frenchies would speak to me in French I’d ask them to switch to English since my French is too weak, but this time I mustered all my primary school knowledge of French and actually managed to communicate with the natives in that language. Trick is to reply with a few words only and let the others speak. I’d say I did a good job of fitting in since no-one asked me “why agh you eeh?” or gave me odd looks.

    The orchestra was set to play Mozart’s Requim and Ravel’s Bolero. I was quite excited about the former since it is among my favorite pieces in the Western classical repertoire. The orchestra began by playing a short 10 minute contemporary piece which of course was horrid and dissonantal. Then the 70-man choir entered and the orchestra returned to the tonal and melodious; off they played the familiar and august Introitus, with a statue of Mary Magdalene and a few French patron Saints hanging above them.

    The sound emanated naturally from the orchestra outwards, without the aide of a speaker system. On the one hand, the naturalistic tone of the instruments maintained the dignity and grandeur of the setting we were in, but on the other came at the cost of low volume for the audience further back. I was seated in the middle section, which cost me 33 euros, and I regretted not having paid another 10 euros to be seated further front. Still I could hear the music fairly well which was good enough. I can’t say the sound in the cathedral was much better than my speakers at home, but the purpose of such events for me isn’t so much to listen but to see and feel. I especially enjoyed the feeling of being in a room of like-minded souls who thought it better to listen to the Requiem in D Minor in this grand and hallowed cathedral than watch a football match on TV. Still, despite the somewhat moderate volume, my heart couldn’t help but soar when the orchestra played the Lux aeterna; one of my favorite movements in all of music, and the one I feel gets closest to defining the sublime and beautiful.

    The audience in the room were admirably patient and rock-like in their demeanor; which was a stark contrast to the ruckus crowd I had seen in a Jay-Z concert I had the misjudgment to attend in New York City when I was younger. I had expected coughing from the videos I’ve seen on YouTube of classical concerts, but the elderly audience kept it together throughout and I rarely heard any during the concert. Very few people were on their phones during the event, and even fewer took out their phones to take pictures or record videos (though it was permissible).

    Overall I counted 48 rows with 24 chairs in each row, which would come to a total of 1,152 seats. I’d estimate nearly 85% of the seats were occupied, which was quite an accomplishment considering France was playing against England during the concert. That such a large crowd of French people are still interested in listening to the greatest achievements of their civilization speaks to their sophistication and good taste in cultural matters. I’m glad I was able to see a glimpse of this great civilization in its authentic form before it reaches the end of its terminal phase and dies out completely.

    I‘ll be honest in that I never had a high opinion of the French; didn’t like their effeminate faggotry and liberalism. But this trip has really elevated my respect for these refined peoples; that they have built these great cathedrals and impressive architecture, after only having had high civilization for less than a millennium, speaks to their greatness. It’s unfortunate that their liberalism is now causing them to decline into a deep pit which can only lead to a worse France, but I do hope they find a way out.

    But for now, an ode to France:

    Dear France,

    We hardly knew ye,

    From the pits of Gallic barbarism,

    To the heights of civilization,

    Carrying the banner of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité,

    Such clean and orderly Rue’s,

    And majestic art and cathedrals;

    Your language the tongue of elites,

    From Saint Petersburg to Algiers.

    [MORE]

    This is the interior of The Church of Saint-Marie-Madeleine:

    I took some pictures of the Hellenic exterior of the church but the ones on the internet are better.

    Also took a video recording of the Lacrimosa; not sure if it will work:

    Would highly recommend anyone visiting Paris to view a concert in one of their beautiful cathedrals. In my opinion a vastly more interesting and enjoyable experience than visiting generic touristic attractions like the Tour Eiffel.

    • Thanks: Mikel, Yevardian
    • Replies: @AP
    @Yahya

    Beautiful!

    We had a similar experience in Vienna, Haydn’s Nicolai Mass at I believe Karlskirche, on a Sunday morning.

    There were a decent number of families there, because this was a Sunday mass and the church has parishioners as well as tourists.

    , @Mikel
    @Yahya

    I guess you went for the best concert you could find but fyi you should be able to enjoy local or invited cultured music choirs and orchestras for free any time you visit Europe, usually at the weekend but often during the work week too. Saturdays used to be the preferred day of the week for performances at churches in the Basque Country. I've been to similar events in rural Switzerland and England too.

  833. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya

    I remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music...
    Well, it is possible I will be able to listen live since with the end of February I am preparing to visit Egypt. Besides usual highlights of Egypt, I hope to spend some time in Alexandria and Cairo, maybe see Al-Azhar too, and taste some good music and food besides ancient & Coptic antiquities. I will be glad to meet anyway ;)

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now? I heard there are many in Turkey. Is the war dominating their thoughts? Since Russiand do not come to Poland (and if so, they pretend to be not Russians) anymore, I do not know. Just asking, since I would prefer to avoid any war-related quarrels.

    Replies: @Yahya

    remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music…

    Yes I remember that too.

    I will be glad to meet anyway

    Would be glad to sir. I only request that you inform me of a rough ballpark of your age so I know so beforehand. As mentioned before, I’m in my mid-20s so most people here are two or three times my age.

    But otherwise do shoot me an email (the one linked above in my reply to Dmitry) when you are in Egypt. I would give recommendations as to which places are best to visit, but I realized I’m probably not the best guide for tourism in Egypt. I wrote a post to Mr. Hack a month ago recommending Shark El-Sheikh (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-201/#comment-5667355), but AnonFromTN kindly provided his perspective that Sharm was the least interesting part of his trip to Egypt. He’s probably right too. Evidently the points of interest for a native will be different from a foreigner. For example, the Great Pyramid of Giza holds no special interest for me. I drive by it every day to work and it’s just sort of there, always has been and always will be. So I’ve actually never visited the Great Pyramid up close. But for a foreigner you definitely need to visit this Ancient wonder.

    I can though be a good guide to good restaurants and such in Cairo. But perhaps Mikel and AnonFromTN or others who have been to Egypt can provide touristic tips for you.

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now?

    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor. Western European tourists are the most interested in Ancient Egyptian sites; a tour guide operator in Luxor told a relative that French kids knew more about Ancient Egypt than he did. I suppose it’s natural as the French were the first to kick off the Egypt craze in Western Europe and led to a rediscovery Ancient Egyptian civilization. Russians and Ukrainians seem to be more interested in the sun and beach.

    I hope to spend some time in Alexandria

    Edward Said wrote an essay on Cairo and Alexandria in Chapter 30 of Reflections On Exile, which you can read here: http://www.mcrg.ac.in/RLS_Migration/Reading_List/Module_A/65.Said,%20Edward,%20Reflections_on_Exile_and_Other_Essay(BookFi).pdf

    You could benefit from reading it before you go. Long story short, Alexandria isn’t the city it used to be. Cairo is vastly more interesting and the center of life for Arab-Islamic civilization.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Yahya


    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor.
     
    Not quite. When I was in Luxor I was surprised to see lots of Russians and even more their Russian-speaking Egyptian guides touring them around.

    I would hesitate to give any touristic advice based on my single visit to Egypt a long time ago. I went to Cairo (where I strolled downtown in the middle of the night watching the amazingly busy streets and crazy traffic), Hurghada and Luxor, in order to get a feeling of different aspects of the country. But I guess someone with the religious interests of APP should rather visit Alexandria and the Sinai.
    , @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor.
     
    This contradicts my experience. When I was in the museum in Cairo, at least half of the visitors spoke Russian. Not to mention that I visited more ancient Egyptian temples and burying sites then most Egyptians (OK, I had an advantage: I was in Egypt last year, in the middle of the covid craze, so there were no lines anywhere: when you entered a temple or a grave in the Valley of the Kings or of the Queens, you saw maybe 3-5 other people).

    In terms of numbers, the great majority of the people of any nation know nothing about history of Egypt (or their own country, for that matter). They focus on things they understand: beaches, food, primitive entertainment.
  834. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg... I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the "wins" of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.

    Russia is winning in Ukraine and there are almost no scenarios under which it would end up losing. You also ignored my main point about Nato expansion and how would a similar expansion be treated by US. You have no answer, it is a check-mate - don't try the "US is special, we are different" nonsense, that is a Kindergarden level thinking.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN, @Yevardian, @Mr. Hack

    Russia wasn’t able to subdue Kyiv, Kharkiv (only 30 miles from its own border) and wasn’t able to hold Kherson. This is what you call winning in Ukraine? Ukraine is now bombing strategic points within Russia and Crimea…how many months has it been fighting to take Bakhmut now?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    They might eventually manage to take the ruins of Bakhmut after almost a year of desperately trying, and focus on this great victory.

    My rough prediction for how it will end:

    50% chance Russia holds onto what it now has in Donbas and maybe takes Bakhmut or some other towns there, but loses Zaporizhia, and the rest of Kherson. If this happens, 50/50 Ukraine manages to move further south and grabs parts of northern Crimea too.

    45% chance the front remains stable, with Russia taking some more towns in Donbas, Ukraine taking a few villages in Zaporizhia or perhaps rural Luhansk oblast near the border with Kharkiv oblast.

    5% chance one or the other side collapses. Ukraine takes most of the pre-2014 border, or Russia gets to Odessa.

    :::::::::;:

    Basically, I don’t see how Ukraine can take back urban Donbas, including Mariupol, by force. These areas are heavily fortified, population is friendly to Russia, and easy for Russia to supply. It is easier for Russia to hold onto them then it is for Russia to hold onto northern Crimea if the Kerch bridge is taken out fully and the land corridor is also.

    But Ukraine has good prospects of liberating the Crimean corridor or at least keeping a stalemate.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    So you avoid the Nato discussion and the faulty analogy w Finland and move on to what you assume Russia's goals were. There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force - against maybe half a million Ukies. The "wasn't able' is in your feverish mind.

    It looks like Russia thought that a mobile, quick, disruptive, initial action will get Ukies to surrender. They
    miscalculated - Ukies are holding. To what extent it was a Russian desire, an attempt to have a war on the cheap, we don't know. After that it has settled into the usual lengthy grinding war that Russia is winning - Kherson was a setback, but on points Russia is sway ahead: Mariupol, Melitopol, Azov Sea, Lugansk...destroying Ukie-Nato bases in Ochakov, Berdiansk.

    Looking forward, short of a miraculous Kiev resurgence or a direct Nato intervention, Russia will win more than they will lose...bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value. Actually it probably solidifies the Russian support for the war - as did 911 in US.

    Bakhmut has been a meat-grinder for the Ukies - and they don't have quality troops to spare. Russians officially claim that they intentionally want to use Bakhmut to "demilitarize" (literally) Ukies - for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack, @Johnny Rico

  835. @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    You’ll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.
     
    So I went to a classical concert a couple of nights ago in L'église de la Madeleine; and what you told me checks out. The median age of the audience must have been somewhere in the 50s, which tracks with France’s age pyramid. Young adults were far and few between, and the one’s there were mostly with their parents. I was probably the youngest person in the cathedral. There were also these three well-dressed Chinese girls who looked 30-ish, though without their parents which was impressive. Other than a smattering of a few POC, the audience was a sea of middle-aged and elderly Europeans/Westerners. I thought they would mostly be native French, but upon being seated I heard a couple of Aussies, one of whom was a beautiful dark-haired 40-ish woman, behind me chatting with a Scandinavian-looking fellow in English. They were talking about the church architecture, and the Scandi assumed they had been to “Wren’s cathedral” in London, but the Aussies told him they had only seen it from the outside. Also I heard a few American accents here and there. But other than that I guesstimate the place must have been 80% native French, 19.8% non-French whites, and 0.2% POC.

    I had expected beforehand to be one of the rare non-Europeans in the Madeleine so I made an extra effort to blend in so that people don’t think I’m a terrorist coming to bomb the cathedral lol. Typically when Frenchies would speak to me in French I’d ask them to switch to English since my French is too weak, but this time I mustered all my primary school knowledge of French and actually managed to communicate with the natives in that language. Trick is to reply with a few words only and let the others speak. I’d say I did a good job of fitting in since no-one asked me “why agh you eeh?” or gave me odd looks.

    The orchestra was set to play Mozart’s Requim and Ravel’s Bolero. I was quite excited about the former since it is among my favorite pieces in the Western classical repertoire. The orchestra began by playing a short 10 minute contemporary piece which of course was horrid and dissonantal. Then the 70-man choir entered and the orchestra returned to the tonal and melodious; off they played the familiar and august Introitus, with a statue of Mary Magdalene and a few French patron Saints hanging above them.

    The sound emanated naturally from the orchestra outwards, without the aide of a speaker system. On the one hand, the naturalistic tone of the instruments maintained the dignity and grandeur of the setting we were in, but on the other came at the cost of low volume for the audience further back. I was seated in the middle section, which cost me 33 euros, and I regretted not having paid another 10 euros to be seated further front. Still I could hear the music fairly well which was good enough. I can’t say the sound in the cathedral was much better than my speakers at home, but the purpose of such events for me isn’t so much to listen but to see and feel. I especially enjoyed the feeling of being in a room of like-minded souls who thought it better to listen to the Requiem in D Minor in this grand and hallowed cathedral than watch a football match on TV. Still, despite the somewhat moderate volume, my heart couldn’t help but soar when the orchestra played the Lux aeterna; one of my favorite movements in all of music, and the one I feel gets closest to defining the sublime and beautiful.

    The audience in the room were admirably patient and rock-like in their demeanor; which was a stark contrast to the ruckus crowd I had seen in a Jay-Z concert I had the misjudgment to attend in New York City when I was younger. I had expected coughing from the videos I’ve seen on YouTube of classical concerts, but the elderly audience kept it together throughout and I rarely heard any during the concert. Very few people were on their phones during the event, and even fewer took out their phones to take pictures or record videos (though it was permissible).

    Overall I counted 48 rows with 24 chairs in each row, which would come to a total of 1,152 seats. I’d estimate nearly 85% of the seats were occupied, which was quite an accomplishment considering France was playing against England during the concert. That such a large crowd of French people are still interested in listening to the greatest achievements of their civilization speaks to their sophistication and good taste in cultural matters. I’m glad I was able to see a glimpse of this great civilization in its authentic form before it reaches the end of its terminal phase and dies out completely.

    I‘ll be honest in that I never had a high opinion of the French; didn’t like their effeminate faggotry and liberalism. But this trip has really elevated my respect for these refined peoples; that they have built these great cathedrals and impressive architecture, after only having had high civilization for less than a millennium, speaks to their greatness. It’s unfortunate that their liberalism is now causing them to decline into a deep pit which can only lead to a worse France, but I do hope they find a way out.

    But for now, an ode to France:

    Dear France,

    We hardly knew ye,

    From the pits of Gallic barbarism,

    To the heights of civilization,

    Carrying the banner of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité,

    Such clean and orderly Rue’s,

    And majestic art and cathedrals;

    Your language the tongue of elites,

    From Saint Petersburg to Algiers.

    This is the interior of The Church of Saint-Marie-Madeleine:


    https://i.ibb.co/1v8Yh85/90338-C7-F-5-C0-A-43-B4-9-F9-C-177-CD43-A9634.jpg


    I took some pictures of the Hellenic exterior of the church but the ones on the internet are better.

    Also took a video recording of the Lacrimosa; not sure if it will work:

    https://youtu.be/n7vjNabNrLY

    Would highly recommend anyone visiting Paris to view a concert in one of their beautiful cathedrals. In my opinion a vastly more interesting and enjoyable experience than visiting generic touristic attractions like the Tour Eiffel.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    Beautiful!

    We had a similar experience in Vienna, Haydn’s Nicolai Mass at I believe Karlskirche, on a Sunday morning.

    There were a decent number of families there, because this was a Sunday mass and the church has parishioners as well as tourists.

    • Thanks: Yahya
  836. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Russia wasn't able to subdue Kyiv, Kharkiv (only 30 miles from its own border) and wasn't able to hold Kherson. This is what you call winning in Ukraine? Ukraine is now bombing strategic points within Russia and Crimea...how many months has it been fighting to take Bakhmut now?

    Replies: @AP, @Beckow

    They might eventually manage to take the ruins of Bakhmut after almost a year of desperately trying, and focus on this great victory.

    My rough prediction for how it will end:

    50% chance Russia holds onto what it now has in Donbas and maybe takes Bakhmut or some other towns there, but loses Zaporizhia, and the rest of Kherson. If this happens, 50/50 Ukraine manages to move further south and grabs parts of northern Crimea too.

    45% chance the front remains stable, with Russia taking some more towns in Donbas, Ukraine taking a few villages in Zaporizhia or perhaps rural Luhansk oblast near the border with Kharkiv oblast.

    5% chance one or the other side collapses. Ukraine takes most of the pre-2014 border, or Russia gets to Odessa.

    :::::::::;:

    Basically, I don’t see how Ukraine can take back urban Donbas, including Mariupol, by force. These areas are heavily fortified, population is friendly to Russia, and easy for Russia to supply. It is easier for Russia to hold onto them then it is for Russia to hold onto northern Crimea if the Kerch bridge is taken out fully and the land corridor is also.

    But Ukraine has good prospects of liberating the Crimean corridor or at least keeping a stalemate.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Read my comment directed towards you, #842.

  837. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Jazman

    You aren't Odyssey, this pan-serbian commentator, are you...?

    Replies: @Jazman

    No I am not

  838. You’re usually spot on when your takeout your ruler, however, you slipped this one in that I don’t understand?

    or Russia gets to Odessa.

    It’s been my understanding that in order to take Odessa, Russia would need to first take Kherson, and this doesn’t seem possible anymore?..

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    Very unlikely, but in case of total Ukrainian collapse Russia could get there. IMO total Russian collapse is equally unlikely but if that happens Ukraine gets everything back to 1991 border.

  839. @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN


    This reflects testosterone levels to a tee.
     
    Are you sure? My bloodwork shows rather high T levels but I don't have much body hair.

    The North/South cline in Europe wrt body hair is true but sometimes you get very hairy people in the North as well. It's not a firm rule.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Are you sure? My bloodwork shows rather high T levels but I don’t have much body hair.

    You are raising an important point: testosterone is a signal, but another factor that determines the result is your responsiveness. Simple analogy: the noise might be loud, but if you are deaf, you won’t hear it. I was talking about averages, but averages do not predict individual parameters.

  840. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) . I would like to see Russia give some recognition Serbian settlers , they have not been mention much in history books , but played big role in that turbulent period . For hundreds of years, Imperial Russia was at war with the Turks, the Tatars who invaded from below from the Crimea. A huge empty space remained between Crimea and central Russia. It was a steppe that was used for cutting armies. In that steppe, Peter the Great began to settle Serbs. Serbs came from Krajina ( Balkan) . I like to joke Ukraine is more Serbian then Uki's Ukraine

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AnonfromTN

    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) .

    Thanks for the info! I did not know that. I only knew in general that Donbass was settled by people of many nationalities. Maybe that’s why it so violently rejected cavemen-level nationalism of Ukies.

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Yes many Serbs left Serbia during Ottoman invasion and Russian empire used them as a border guards or granicari . There is one very good book by Serbian writer Milos Crnjanski called Seobe that mean Migration https://www.themodernnovel.org/europe/europe/serbia/milos-crnjanski/migrations/
    Do you know that Montenegro used to be number one pro Russia place . Montenegro Was at War With Japan for 102 Years lol they sent so many volunteers to fight Japan during 1905 war , but democracy came and pro western thief Milo Djukanovic changed everything , Montenegro now is pro western but 50 % of population is still pro Russian and Serbian

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

  841. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    They might eventually manage to take the ruins of Bakhmut after almost a year of desperately trying, and focus on this great victory.

    My rough prediction for how it will end:

    50% chance Russia holds onto what it now has in Donbas and maybe takes Bakhmut or some other towns there, but loses Zaporizhia, and the rest of Kherson. If this happens, 50/50 Ukraine manages to move further south and grabs parts of northern Crimea too.

    45% chance the front remains stable, with Russia taking some more towns in Donbas, Ukraine taking a few villages in Zaporizhia or perhaps rural Luhansk oblast near the border with Kharkiv oblast.

    5% chance one or the other side collapses. Ukraine takes most of the pre-2014 border, or Russia gets to Odessa.

    :::::::::;:

    Basically, I don’t see how Ukraine can take back urban Donbas, including Mariupol, by force. These areas are heavily fortified, population is friendly to Russia, and easy for Russia to supply. It is easier for Russia to hold onto them then it is for Russia to hold onto northern Crimea if the Kerch bridge is taken out fully and the land corridor is also.

    But Ukraine has good prospects of liberating the Crimean corridor or at least keeping a stalemate.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Read my comment directed towards you, #842.

  842. @AnonfromTN
    @Jazman


    Do you know that Artemosk was founded by Serbian people ? There is also one city Slovianoserbsk (Luhansk) .
     
    Thanks for the info! I did not know that. I only knew in general that Donbass was settled by people of many nationalities. Maybe that’s why it so violently rejected cavemen-level nationalism of Ukies.

    Replies: @Jazman

    Yes many Serbs left Serbia during Ottoman invasion and Russian empire used them as a border guards or granicari . There is one very good book by Serbian writer Milos Crnjanski called Seobe that mean Migration https://www.themodernnovel.org/europe/europe/serbia/milos-crnjanski/migrations/
    Do you know that Montenegro used to be number one pro Russia place . Montenegro Was at War With Japan for 102 Years lol they sent so many volunteers to fight Japan during 1905 war , but democracy came and pro western thief Milo Djukanovic changed everything , Montenegro now is pro western but 50 % of population is still pro Russian and Serbian

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Jazman


    pro western thief Milo Djukanovic
     
    Milo is not just a thief, he is the most prominent figure in Montenegrin mafia. OCCRP named him 2015 person of the year in organized crime and corruption
    https://www.occrp.org/en/poy/2015/
    No wonder the empire likes him. As chemists say "like dissolves like".
    , @AnonfromTN
    @Jazman


    pro western thief Milo Djukanovic
     
    Milo is not just a thief, he is the most prominent figure in Montenegrin mafia. OCCRP named him 2015 person of the year in organized crime and corruption
    https://www.occrp.org/en/poy/2015/

    No wonder the empire likes him. As chemists say "like dissolves like".
  843. @Mr. Hack
    You're usually spot on when your takeout your ruler, however, you slipped this one in that I don't understand?

    or Russia gets to Odessa.
     
    It's been my understanding that in order to take Odessa, Russia would need to first take Kherson, and this doesn't seem possible anymore?..

    Replies: @AP

    Very unlikely, but in case of total Ukrainian collapse Russia could get there. IMO total Russian collapse is equally unlikely but if that happens Ukraine gets everything back to 1991 border.

  844. @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    You’ll probably find the average age of the audience is now 50+ or even 60+, of all socio-economic backgrounds, not just rich people as you might expect. The only people under 50 I ever see aside from the musicians and their friends, were East Asians, who seemed to attend mostly to drag their usually unwilling children there as some sort of status training.
     
    So I went to a classical concert a couple of nights ago in L'église de la Madeleine; and what you told me checks out. The median age of the audience must have been somewhere in the 50s, which tracks with France’s age pyramid. Young adults were far and few between, and the one’s there were mostly with their parents. I was probably the youngest person in the cathedral. There were also these three well-dressed Chinese girls who looked 30-ish, though without their parents which was impressive. Other than a smattering of a few POC, the audience was a sea of middle-aged and elderly Europeans/Westerners. I thought they would mostly be native French, but upon being seated I heard a couple of Aussies, one of whom was a beautiful dark-haired 40-ish woman, behind me chatting with a Scandinavian-looking fellow in English. They were talking about the church architecture, and the Scandi assumed they had been to “Wren’s cathedral” in London, but the Aussies told him they had only seen it from the outside. Also I heard a few American accents here and there. But other than that I guesstimate the place must have been 80% native French, 19.8% non-French whites, and 0.2% POC.

    I had expected beforehand to be one of the rare non-Europeans in the Madeleine so I made an extra effort to blend in so that people don’t think I’m a terrorist coming to bomb the cathedral lol. Typically when Frenchies would speak to me in French I’d ask them to switch to English since my French is too weak, but this time I mustered all my primary school knowledge of French and actually managed to communicate with the natives in that language. Trick is to reply with a few words only and let the others speak. I’d say I did a good job of fitting in since no-one asked me “why agh you eeh?” or gave me odd looks.

    The orchestra was set to play Mozart’s Requim and Ravel’s Bolero. I was quite excited about the former since it is among my favorite pieces in the Western classical repertoire. The orchestra began by playing a short 10 minute contemporary piece which of course was horrid and dissonantal. Then the 70-man choir entered and the orchestra returned to the tonal and melodious; off they played the familiar and august Introitus, with a statue of Mary Magdalene and a few French patron Saints hanging above them.

    The sound emanated naturally from the orchestra outwards, without the aide of a speaker system. On the one hand, the naturalistic tone of the instruments maintained the dignity and grandeur of the setting we were in, but on the other came at the cost of low volume for the audience further back. I was seated in the middle section, which cost me 33 euros, and I regretted not having paid another 10 euros to be seated further front. Still I could hear the music fairly well which was good enough. I can’t say the sound in the cathedral was much better than my speakers at home, but the purpose of such events for me isn’t so much to listen but to see and feel. I especially enjoyed the feeling of being in a room of like-minded souls who thought it better to listen to the Requiem in D Minor in this grand and hallowed cathedral than watch a football match on TV. Still, despite the somewhat moderate volume, my heart couldn’t help but soar when the orchestra played the Lux aeterna; one of my favorite movements in all of music, and the one I feel gets closest to defining the sublime and beautiful.

    The audience in the room were admirably patient and rock-like in their demeanor; which was a stark contrast to the ruckus crowd I had seen in a Jay-Z concert I had the misjudgment to attend in New York City when I was younger. I had expected coughing from the videos I’ve seen on YouTube of classical concerts, but the elderly audience kept it together throughout and I rarely heard any during the concert. Very few people were on their phones during the event, and even fewer took out their phones to take pictures or record videos (though it was permissible).

    Overall I counted 48 rows with 24 chairs in each row, which would come to a total of 1,152 seats. I’d estimate nearly 85% of the seats were occupied, which was quite an accomplishment considering France was playing against England during the concert. That such a large crowd of French people are still interested in listening to the greatest achievements of their civilization speaks to their sophistication and good taste in cultural matters. I’m glad I was able to see a glimpse of this great civilization in its authentic form before it reaches the end of its terminal phase and dies out completely.

    I‘ll be honest in that I never had a high opinion of the French; didn’t like their effeminate faggotry and liberalism. But this trip has really elevated my respect for these refined peoples; that they have built these great cathedrals and impressive architecture, after only having had high civilization for less than a millennium, speaks to their greatness. It’s unfortunate that their liberalism is now causing them to decline into a deep pit which can only lead to a worse France, but I do hope they find a way out.

    But for now, an ode to France:

    Dear France,

    We hardly knew ye,

    From the pits of Gallic barbarism,

    To the heights of civilization,

    Carrying the banner of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité,

    Such clean and orderly Rue’s,

    And majestic art and cathedrals;

    Your language the tongue of elites,

    From Saint Petersburg to Algiers.

    This is the interior of The Church of Saint-Marie-Madeleine:


    https://i.ibb.co/1v8Yh85/90338-C7-F-5-C0-A-43-B4-9-F9-C-177-CD43-A9634.jpg


    I took some pictures of the Hellenic exterior of the church but the ones on the internet are better.

    Also took a video recording of the Lacrimosa; not sure if it will work:

    https://youtu.be/n7vjNabNrLY

    Would highly recommend anyone visiting Paris to view a concert in one of their beautiful cathedrals. In my opinion a vastly more interesting and enjoyable experience than visiting generic touristic attractions like the Tour Eiffel.

    Replies: @AP, @Mikel

    I guess you went for the best concert you could find but fyi you should be able to enjoy local or invited cultured music choirs and orchestras for free any time you visit Europe, usually at the weekend but often during the work week too. Saturdays used to be the preferred day of the week for performances at churches in the Basque Country. I’ve been to similar events in rural Switzerland and England too.

  845. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Yes many Serbs left Serbia during Ottoman invasion and Russian empire used them as a border guards or granicari . There is one very good book by Serbian writer Milos Crnjanski called Seobe that mean Migration https://www.themodernnovel.org/europe/europe/serbia/milos-crnjanski/migrations/
    Do you know that Montenegro used to be number one pro Russia place . Montenegro Was at War With Japan for 102 Years lol they sent so many volunteers to fight Japan during 1905 war , but democracy came and pro western thief Milo Djukanovic changed everything , Montenegro now is pro western but 50 % of population is still pro Russian and Serbian

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    pro western thief Milo Djukanovic

    Milo is not just a thief, he is the most prominent figure in Montenegrin mafia. OCCRP named him 2015 person of the year in organized crime and corruption
    https://www.occrp.org/en/poy/2015/
    No wonder the empire likes him. As chemists say “like dissolves like”.

  846. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Yes many Serbs left Serbia during Ottoman invasion and Russian empire used them as a border guards or granicari . There is one very good book by Serbian writer Milos Crnjanski called Seobe that mean Migration https://www.themodernnovel.org/europe/europe/serbia/milos-crnjanski/migrations/
    Do you know that Montenegro used to be number one pro Russia place . Montenegro Was at War With Japan for 102 Years lol they sent so many volunteers to fight Japan during 1905 war , but democracy came and pro western thief Milo Djukanovic changed everything , Montenegro now is pro western but 50 % of population is still pro Russian and Serbian

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    pro western thief Milo Djukanovic

    Milo is not just a thief, he is the most prominent figure in Montenegrin mafia. OCCRP named him 2015 person of the year in organized crime and corruption
    https://www.occrp.org/en/poy/2015/

    No wonder the empire likes him. As chemists say “like dissolves like”.

  847. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music…
     
    Yes I remember that too.

    I will be glad to meet anyway
     
    Would be glad to sir. I only request that you inform me of a rough ballpark of your age so I know so beforehand. As mentioned before, I'm in my mid-20s so most people here are two or three times my age.

    But otherwise do shoot me an email (the one linked above in my reply to Dmitry) when you are in Egypt. I would give recommendations as to which places are best to visit, but I realized I’m probably not the best guide for tourism in Egypt. I wrote a post to Mr. Hack a month ago recommending Shark El-Sheikh (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-201/#comment-5667355), but AnonFromTN kindly provided his perspective that Sharm was the least interesting part of his trip to Egypt. He’s probably right too. Evidently the points of interest for a native will be different from a foreigner. For example, the Great Pyramid of Giza holds no special interest for me. I drive by it every day to work and it’s just sort of there, always has been and always will be. So I’ve actually never visited the Great Pyramid up close. But for a foreigner you definitely need to visit this Ancient wonder.

    I can though be a good guide to good restaurants and such in Cairo. But perhaps Mikel and AnonFromTN or others who have been to Egypt can provide touristic tips for you.

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now?
     
    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor. Western European tourists are the most interested in Ancient Egyptian sites; a tour guide operator in Luxor told a relative that French kids knew more about Ancient Egypt than he did. I suppose it’s natural as the French were the first to kick off the Egypt craze in Western Europe and led to a rediscovery Ancient Egyptian civilization. Russians and Ukrainians seem to be more interested in the sun and beach.

    I hope to spend some time in Alexandria
     
    Edward Said wrote an essay on Cairo and Alexandria in Chapter 30 of Reflections On Exile, which you can read here: http://www.mcrg.ac.in/RLS_Migration/Reading_List/Module_A/65.Said,%20Edward,%20Reflections_on_Exile_and_Other_Essay(BookFi).pdf

    You could benefit from reading it before you go. Long story short, Alexandria isn’t the city it used to be. Cairo is vastly more interesting and the center of life for Arab-Islamic civilization.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN

    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor.

    Not quite. When I was in Luxor I was surprised to see lots of Russians and even more their Russian-speaking Egyptian guides touring them around.

    I would hesitate to give any touristic advice based on my single visit to Egypt a long time ago. I went to Cairo (where I strolled downtown in the middle of the night watching the amazingly busy streets and crazy traffic), Hurghada and Luxor, in order to get a feeling of different aspects of the country. But I guess someone with the religious interests of APP should rather visit Alexandria and the Sinai.

  848. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    remember you from the discussion about the archetype of love in Arabic music…
     
    Yes I remember that too.

    I will be glad to meet anyway
     
    Would be glad to sir. I only request that you inform me of a rough ballpark of your age so I know so beforehand. As mentioned before, I'm in my mid-20s so most people here are two or three times my age.

    But otherwise do shoot me an email (the one linked above in my reply to Dmitry) when you are in Egypt. I would give recommendations as to which places are best to visit, but I realized I’m probably not the best guide for tourism in Egypt. I wrote a post to Mr. Hack a month ago recommending Shark El-Sheikh (https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-201/#comment-5667355), but AnonFromTN kindly provided his perspective that Sharm was the least interesting part of his trip to Egypt. He’s probably right too. Evidently the points of interest for a native will be different from a foreigner. For example, the Great Pyramid of Giza holds no special interest for me. I drive by it every day to work and it’s just sort of there, always has been and always will be. So I’ve actually never visited the Great Pyramid up close. But for a foreigner you definitely need to visit this Ancient wonder.

    I can though be a good guide to good restaurants and such in Cairo. But perhaps Mikel and AnonFromTN or others who have been to Egypt can provide touristic tips for you.

    BTW, are many Russians in Egypt now?
     
    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor. Western European tourists are the most interested in Ancient Egyptian sites; a tour guide operator in Luxor told a relative that French kids knew more about Ancient Egypt than he did. I suppose it’s natural as the French were the first to kick off the Egypt craze in Western Europe and led to a rediscovery Ancient Egyptian civilization. Russians and Ukrainians seem to be more interested in the sun and beach.

    I hope to spend some time in Alexandria
     
    Edward Said wrote an essay on Cairo and Alexandria in Chapter 30 of Reflections On Exile, which you can read here: http://www.mcrg.ac.in/RLS_Migration/Reading_List/Module_A/65.Said,%20Edward,%20Reflections_on_Exile_and_Other_Essay(BookFi).pdf

    You could benefit from reading it before you go. Long story short, Alexandria isn’t the city it used to be. Cairo is vastly more interesting and the center of life for Arab-Islamic civilization.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN

    Russians mostly stick to coastal resorts in Hurghada and Sharm El-Sheikh. You won’t see them in Cairo or Alexandria or Aswan or Luxor.

    This contradicts my experience. When I was in the museum in Cairo, at least half of the visitors spoke Russian. Not to mention that I visited more ancient Egyptian temples and burying sites then most Egyptians (OK, I had an advantage: I was in Egypt last year, in the middle of the covid craze, so there were no lines anywhere: when you entered a temple or a grave in the Valley of the Kings or of the Queens, you saw maybe 3-5 other people).

    In terms of numbers, the great majority of the people of any nation know nothing about history of Egypt (or their own country, for that matter). They focus on things they understand: beaches, food, primitive entertainment.

  849. @Yevardian
    @Beckow


    Russia decisively won the 1940 war with Finland and took large territories like Vyborg… I am not sure that Kiev would want that. Your partial knowledge of the past only remembers the “wins” of your side and conveniently forgets the full picture.
     
    Yes, people do forget that the Winter War did eventuate in a Russian victory, although Stalin settled for far less than they he had originally planned for. But at the same time, poor Russian performance in that war was likely a decisive factor in Germany forwarding its date for its war with the USSR, perhaps by years, which would have radically altered the course of WWII.

    But I'm no WWII buff and that's mostly just speculation on my part. But in the same manner, anything short of an overwhelming Russian victory in Ukraine (now extremely unlikely) will leave Russia's credibility severely weakened in the future.
    Although Ukraine also seems far less likely to acquiese to any permanent loss of territory than Finland was, probably to its own long-term strategic detriment.

    Replies: @Sean, @Beckow

    Settling for less than planned (dreamed off?) is the way almost all wars end. Did Nato settle for less in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, even Serbia? Was their credibility weakened? Certainly.

    The world of war is a complicated place and it never goes as planned. The bellyaching about “but Russia didn’t flatten Ukraine in 48 hrs” is besides the point. Ukies are losing – both territory, manpower and in political dreams. I don’t see how they can reverse it. Win is a win, no matter how the West spins it, Russia is substantially better off today than a year ago.

    Finland lost, and they became permanently smaller – the lost Finnish men were a substantially large % than among the Russians. It left trauma, talk to Finns about it, and nobody in Russia even remembers it. But the morons in the West like Mr. Hacks who are only told 20% of the story think they are smart by mentioning “Finland”….it is actually quite sad how uneducated and stupid they are. This will not end well for them.

  850. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Russia wasn't able to subdue Kyiv, Kharkiv (only 30 miles from its own border) and wasn't able to hold Kherson. This is what you call winning in Ukraine? Ukraine is now bombing strategic points within Russia and Crimea...how many months has it been fighting to take Bakhmut now?

    Replies: @AP, @Beckow

    So you avoid the Nato discussion and the faulty analogy w Finland and move on to what you assume Russia’s goals were. There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force – against maybe half a million Ukies. The “wasn’t able’ is in your feverish mind.

    It looks like Russia thought that a mobile, quick, disruptive, initial action will get Ukies to surrender. They
    miscalculated – Ukies are holding. To what extent it was a Russian desire, an attempt to have a war on the cheap, we don’t know. After that it has settled into the usual lengthy grinding war that Russia is winning – Kherson was a setback, but on points Russia is sway ahead: Mariupol, Melitopol, Azov Sea, Lugansk…destroying Ukie-Nato bases in Ochakov, Berdiansk.

    Looking forward, short of a miraculous Kiev resurgence or a direct Nato intervention, Russia will win more than they will lose…bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value. Actually it probably solidifies the Russian support for the war – as did 911 in US.

    Bakhmut has been a meat-grinder for the Ukies – and they don’t have quality troops to spare. Russians officially claim that they intentionally want to use Bakhmut to “demilitarize” (literally) Ukies – for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Beckow


    bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value
     
    A modified Soviet drone, Strizh, flew 700kms deep into the Russian territory, passing several layers of air defense and flew into Engels, what is known as a strategic airport (that it is still named "Engels" is quite telling). RusFed is very lucky that they don't have more serious or more bellicose enemies.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    So you avoid the Nato discussion
     
    What's there to avoid? Ukraine would like to be part of NATO and Russia would like to keep Ukraine out. Nothing very difficult to understand and this is one of the reasons for this war.

    the faulty analogy w Finland
     
    What faulty analogy? Russia was able to tear off a good sized chunk of Finland, but Finland managed to keep a majority of its territory intact. Certainly,Finland was able to maintain its soverignty and never succumbed to being a Russian satellite. Finland's situation is inspirational for Ukraine, for it finally is becoming a part of NATO.

    There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force – against maybe half a million Ukies. The “wasn’t able’ is in your feverish mind.
     
    No, it's the "no evidence that Russia planned to take Kyiv or Kharkiv" that somehow managed to fill your dull and unimaginative mind. 150,000 well trained and armed crack troops (and let's not kid ourselves, a good portion of these troops were part of an elite brigade of paratroopers) were perfectly capable of taking Kyiv except for two things: that their battle plans didn't take into account, the fierce opposition of the local citizenry and the excellent use of drone weaponry including javelins and bayraktar systems that threw the sluggish tank formations into complete disarray.

    for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.
     
    And were to somehow believe you that Russian casualties aren't equal if not higher in Bakhmut?
    , @Johnny Rico
    @Beckow

    What ARE Ukrainian losses in Bahkmut? What about Russian losses?

    I only ask because I haven't seen this information anywhere. And I pay pretty close attention. But you seem to know. Please share.

    (And "horrendous" is not a number. But you knew that.)

  851. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    So you avoid the Nato discussion and the faulty analogy w Finland and move on to what you assume Russia's goals were. There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force - against maybe half a million Ukies. The "wasn't able' is in your feverish mind.

    It looks like Russia thought that a mobile, quick, disruptive, initial action will get Ukies to surrender. They
    miscalculated - Ukies are holding. To what extent it was a Russian desire, an attempt to have a war on the cheap, we don't know. After that it has settled into the usual lengthy grinding war that Russia is winning - Kherson was a setback, but on points Russia is sway ahead: Mariupol, Melitopol, Azov Sea, Lugansk...destroying Ukie-Nato bases in Ochakov, Berdiansk.

    Looking forward, short of a miraculous Kiev resurgence or a direct Nato intervention, Russia will win more than they will lose...bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value. Actually it probably solidifies the Russian support for the war - as did 911 in US.

    Bakhmut has been a meat-grinder for the Ukies - and they don't have quality troops to spare. Russians officially claim that they intentionally want to use Bakhmut to "demilitarize" (literally) Ukies - for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack, @Johnny Rico

    bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value

    A modified Soviet drone, Strizh, flew 700kms deep into the Russian territory, passing several layers of air defense and flew into Engels, what is known as a strategic airport (that it is still named “Engels” is quite telling). RusFed is very lucky that they don’t have more serious or more bellicose enemies.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @LatW

    What did it accomplish other than increase 'patriotic' fervor in Russia? Same as 911 - you can say:


    US is very lucky that they didn’t have more serious or more bellicose enemies than Al Queda
     
    The symbolic sucker punch attacks always backfire - they are literally self-defeating and there is a whole industry claiming that they are "false flag" attacks because they make the perpetrators weaker and the victims stronger.

    Replies: @LatW

  852. @LatW
    @Beckow


    bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value
     
    A modified Soviet drone, Strizh, flew 700kms deep into the Russian territory, passing several layers of air defense and flew into Engels, what is known as a strategic airport (that it is still named "Engels" is quite telling). RusFed is very lucky that they don't have more serious or more bellicose enemies.

    Replies: @Beckow

    What did it accomplish other than increase ‘patriotic’ fervor in Russia? Same as 911 – you can say:

    US is very lucky that they didn’t have more serious or more bellicose enemies than Al Queda

    The symbolic sucker punch attacks always backfire – they are literally self-defeating and there is a whole industry claiming that they are “false flag” attacks because they make the perpetrators weaker and the victims stronger.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Beckow


    What did it accomplish other than increase ‘patriotic’ fervor in Russia
     
    It demonstrated some major vulnerabilities. Such that it raises the question of what other vulnerabilities are there?

    You are correct about Al Queda. And that's exactly what I said - RusFed is lucky that they don't have more seriously motivated enemies. The biggest enemy, the US, is intent on doing this very, very slowly and not all the way even.

  853. @Beckow
    @LatW

    What did it accomplish other than increase 'patriotic' fervor in Russia? Same as 911 - you can say:


    US is very lucky that they didn’t have more serious or more bellicose enemies than Al Queda
     
    The symbolic sucker punch attacks always backfire - they are literally self-defeating and there is a whole industry claiming that they are "false flag" attacks because they make the perpetrators weaker and the victims stronger.

    Replies: @LatW

    What did it accomplish other than increase ‘patriotic’ fervor in Russia

    It demonstrated some major vulnerabilities. Such that it raises the question of what other vulnerabilities are there?

    You are correct about Al Queda. And that’s exactly what I said – RusFed is lucky that they don’t have more seriously motivated enemies. The biggest enemy, the US, is intent on doing this very, very slowly and not all the way even.

  854. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    So you avoid the Nato discussion and the faulty analogy w Finland and move on to what you assume Russia's goals were. There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force - against maybe half a million Ukies. The "wasn't able' is in your feverish mind.

    It looks like Russia thought that a mobile, quick, disruptive, initial action will get Ukies to surrender. They
    miscalculated - Ukies are holding. To what extent it was a Russian desire, an attempt to have a war on the cheap, we don't know. After that it has settled into the usual lengthy grinding war that Russia is winning - Kherson was a setback, but on points Russia is sway ahead: Mariupol, Melitopol, Azov Sea, Lugansk...destroying Ukie-Nato bases in Ochakov, Berdiansk.

    Looking forward, short of a miraculous Kiev resurgence or a direct Nato intervention, Russia will win more than they will lose...bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value. Actually it probably solidifies the Russian support for the war - as did 911 in US.

    Bakhmut has been a meat-grinder for the Ukies - and they don't have quality troops to spare. Russians officially claim that they intentionally want to use Bakhmut to "demilitarize" (literally) Ukies - for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack, @Johnny Rico

    So you avoid the Nato discussion

    What’s there to avoid? Ukraine would like to be part of NATO and Russia would like to keep Ukraine out. Nothing very difficult to understand and this is one of the reasons for this war.

    the faulty analogy w Finland

    What faulty analogy? Russia was able to tear off a good sized chunk of Finland, but Finland managed to keep a majority of its territory intact. Certainly,Finland was able to maintain its soverignty and never succumbed to being a Russian satellite. Finland’s situation is inspirational for Ukraine, for it finally is becoming a part of NATO.

    There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force – against maybe half a million Ukies. The “wasn’t able’ is in your feverish mind.

    No, it’s the “no evidence that Russia planned to take Kyiv or Kharkiv” that somehow managed to fill your dull and unimaginative mind. 150,000 well trained and armed crack troops (and let’s not kid ourselves, a good portion of these troops were part of an elite brigade of paratroopers) were perfectly capable of taking Kyiv except for two things: that their battle plans didn’t take into account, the fierce opposition of the local citizenry and the excellent use of drone weaponry including javelins and bayraktar systems that threw the sluggish tank formations into complete disarray.

    for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.

    And were to somehow believe you that Russian casualties aren’t equal if not higher in Bakhmut?

  855. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    So you avoid the Nato discussion and the faulty analogy w Finland and move on to what you assume Russia's goals were. There is no evidence that Russia planned to take either Kyiv or Kharkiv, large well-defended cities, with 150k attack force - against maybe half a million Ukies. The "wasn't able' is in your feverish mind.

    It looks like Russia thought that a mobile, quick, disruptive, initial action will get Ukies to surrender. They
    miscalculated - Ukies are holding. To what extent it was a Russian desire, an attempt to have a war on the cheap, we don't know. After that it has settled into the usual lengthy grinding war that Russia is winning - Kherson was a setback, but on points Russia is sway ahead: Mariupol, Melitopol, Azov Sea, Lugansk...destroying Ukie-Nato bases in Ochakov, Berdiansk.

    Looking forward, short of a miraculous Kiev resurgence or a direct Nato intervention, Russia will win more than they will lose...bombing inside Russia is symbolic and has almost no strategic value. Actually it probably solidifies the Russian support for the war - as did 911 in US.

    Bakhmut has been a meat-grinder for the Ukies - and they don't have quality troops to spare. Russians officially claim that they intentionally want to use Bakhmut to "demilitarize" (literally) Ukies - for that a long period of systematic killing is better than a quick frontal assault. Who knows, maybe they are putting a lipstick on a pig, but maybe there is something to it: Ukie losses in Bakhmut are horrendous.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack, @Johnny Rico

    What ARE Ukrainian losses in Bahkmut? What about Russian losses?

    I only ask because I haven’t seen this information anywhere. And I pay pretty close attention. But you seem to know. Please share.

    (And “horrendous” is not a number. But you knew that.)

  856. While the Russians are not running out of warm clothes trained soldiers, artillery ammunition, and missiles, they do not have any of those to waste especially soldiers because those are the only thing Ukraine cannot get replaced by the West.

    The Russian losses may well be horrendous in absolute terms. For several months Russian progress in Bakhmut has been so incremental, in territor won, that it has been barely discernible whether they were advancing at all. The battle of attrition has been going on nevertheless! That new broom General Sorovikin has not ordered Russian forces to disengage there is a sign that the ratio of losses favours the Kremin significantly.

    The snail’s pace operations in Bakhmus have the Ukrainians coming to where they can be most easily attrited because Russia has a shorter supply line and rupply command and control long established and dispersed there, and I expect what Ukraine most dreads is the Russians continuing to fight slowly and methodically in the war’s centre of gravity: Donbass

    Why on earth would Ukraine publicly announce accurate information about their own or Russia’s future dispositions? Ukraine HOPES Russia will make another try to take Kiev again, and so the Ukrainian Commanding General is ostensibly warning of that, actually trying to give the Russians the idea to do so.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico

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